# Are helmets Mandatory?



## dbarabians

I am thinking of trying endurance again and want to know are helmets mandatory.
I have read the rules that state all under 18 must wear one. That is all I can find in the rule book.
I do not wear helmets and this may keep me from competeing,
I have seen a few pictures of people wearing caps or other hats.
I have competed in the 90's and then it was optional.
That hard piece of plastic on my head and chin strap bother me. 
Shalom


----------



## mildot

dbarabians said:


> That hard piece of plastic on my head and chin strap bother me.


A) There are so many helmets shaped to fit so many different heads that it is impossible not to find a helmet that can be worn comfortably for hours.

B) Same goes for the design of the chin strap. In any event, the chin strap need not be jammed hard against the underside of your jaw/front of your neck.

C) Whatever slight discomfort a helmet may cause compared to a ballcap will hurt a lot less than permanent brain damage.


----------



## mls

mildot said:


> C) Whatever slight discomfort a helmet may cause compared to a ballcap will hurt a lot less than permanent brain damage.


I liked the fact that wearing a helmet, we could keep trotting right along and all I did was dip my head a bit to let branches brush off my helmet. Easier that trying to dodge around them and risk my horses legs.


----------



## tlkng1

Yes. Directly from the USEF Rulebook:
http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2012/10-EN.pdf

EN110 Dress Code .
1. Protective headgear, of a recognized equestrian/endurance standard and adequately secured, is compulsory for all persons at all Endurance events while mounted.
1.1. The protective headgear must be properly fitting protective headgear which passes or surpasses ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials)/SEI (Safety Equipment Institute) standards for equestrian use and carries the SEI tag. Harness must be secured and properly fitted.
1.2. It is the responsibility of the rider, or the parent or guardian of the junior rider to see to it that the headgear worn complies with appropriate safety standards for protective headgear intended for equestrian use, and is properly fitted and in good condition, and the Federation, Organizing Committee, and Officials or volunteers are not responsible for checking headgear worn for such compliance.

As for the chin strap, the idea is to tighten it just enough that the strap won't come over your chin in a fall...after all, the idea is to keep the helmet ON through the fall, not lose it during the descent.


----------



## mls

tlkng1 said:


> Yes. Directly from the USEF Rulebook:
> http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2012/10-EN.pdf


That is USEF.

Rules are different for different organizations.

AERC only has rules for juniors:

*10.1​*​​​​A Junior is a rider who was under the age of 16 as of the first day of the ride season in which the ride is held.​
*10.1.1​*​​​​All Juniors, sponsored or un-sponsored, must wear approved safety helmets (approval by AHSA, PCA, ANSIZ90.4,​
or Snell).


----------



## tlkng1

My suggestion would be to check with the show sponsors or even the rules organizaton (whether local or national) to determine if you need only comply with the specific national/local organization rules or if they are also following overall USEF rules. Most of the rules from the National/local organizations are taken from the USEF rules in some form or fashion.


----------



## Wallee

Why would they care if you wore a helmet of not? I mean no one will be hurt but the one who choses not to wear it. I hate when people try to force feed their ideas of helmet or no helmet. Let the people chose!!!


----------



## kait18

i would say ask the sponsor as well... it could be a liabilty issue if the event is on private grounds..


----------



## mildot

Wallee said:


> Why would they care if you wore a helmet of not? I mean no one will be hurt but the one who choses not to wear it. I hate when people try to force feed their ideas of helmet or no helmet. Let the people chose!!!


A) Any equine event organizer that has more than two functioning brain cells has liability insurance.

B) Liability insurance cost less and less the more universally accepted safety precautions are put in place.

C) Helmets are a universally accepted safety precaution to reduce the occurrence and severity of traumatic head injuries.

D) You can hate mandatory helmet use all you like. There is a simple solution to your problem. Don't participate in activities that require them. 

E) You do not have the right to participate in any privately organized event. You do so at the pleasure of the organizers. And if they decide that all participants are going to wear a helmet, then you will or you will leave.

Simple as that.


----------



## cakemom

There is not a show ground anywhere around here where you can get on a horse at all without a helmet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dbarabians

Ckemom I don't know where you live but that does not apply here in Texas I assure you. I don't know of any horse shows that require you to wear a helmet.
In Texas you cannot sue anyone due to a horse related accident covered in section 87 of the state civil code.
I will only participate in AERC events if I choose to do so as I will not wear a helmet or be forced to do so as an adult. Shalom


----------



## mildot

dbarabians said:


> I don't know of any horse shows that require you to wear a helmet.


I'm going to take a very, very low risk when I say that there is no dressage, hunter/show jumping, or eventing show/competition in the US that makes ASTM/SEI-certified helmets optional. Even in Texas.

So maybe you don't know about them, but there are plenty of them.


----------



## phantomhorse13

At least in the Northeast Region of AERC, helmets while mounted are mandatory.

Might be _technically_ up to the ride managers vs being an AERC rule, but its simply fact in this region.


----------



## mildot

phantomhorse13 said:


> At least in the Northeast Region of AERC, helmets while mounted are mandatory.
> 
> Might be _technically_ up to the ride managers vs being an AERC rule, but its simply fact in this region.


That's a good point. While the national organization may not require them, the actual show/ride organizer is well within his authority to do so.

End result is the same. Wear it or watch from the sidelines.


----------



## cakemom

I am in Louisiana, and I do hate to say but you would not participate here. See, no one owes anyone a ride in a show. People can be refused entry for not following posted and written rules. I'm not being confrontational, just stating the facts here where we compete and ride. You do not get on a horse on a show ground without a helmet, and the same rule applies at our trainers barn. Their barn, their rules.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dbarabians

Mildot those are events you are describing not arenas or horse shows.
I have attended many shows for different breeds in Ft Worth. Helmets are not mandatory in AQHA events Arabian, APHA, or Appaloosa shows I have attended.
One of the reasons they are mandatory is for insurance liabilty.
In Texas section 87 of the Civil code protects equine professionals and livestock owners from being sued due to the inherent danger involved.
No wonder all those big events happen in Texas. Shalom


----------



## mildot

dbarabians said:


> Mildot those are events you are describing not arenas or horse shows
> 
> I have attended many shows for different breeds in Ft Worth. Helmets are not mandatory in AQHA events Arabian, APHA, or Appaloosa shows I have attended.
> One of the reasons they are mandatory is for insurance liabilty.
> In Texas section 87 of the Civil code protects equine professionals and livestock owners from being sued due to the inherent danger involved.
> No wonder all those big events happen in Texas. Shalom


No, I am describing HORSE SHOWS. You know, dressage shows, jumping shows, eventing......You can call them whatever you want. They are places where people go to compete and show their horses against others. And they happen in....wait for it.....private and public arenas.

Any dressage, jumping, or eventing show sanctioned by the US Equestrian Federation will require helmet usage. State equine liability laws have nothing to do with it.

Breed shows are way behind the curve when it comes to enforcing common sense safety rules and I would not hold AQHA or APHA as a model in this regard. At all.

Also, you might want to check where the AQHA World Congress happens every year. I'll tell you where it doesn't: Texas.


----------



## DrumRunner

Mildot, what you're missing is that the OP is riding endurance..Not dressage, jumping, or any of the others you've listed. There are different rules for different situations and shows. 

Around here all of the English disciplines require a helmet while western does not, trail does not, and endurance does not (that I know of).. NBHA shows don't require a helmet at all. Other state wide "associations" that show all disciplines don't require a helmet unless it's dressage, jumping, or English equitation stuff..All Western disciplines don't require a helmet and there is only an age requirement of 12 years old to wear a helmet.. 

I personally don't wear a helmet and never will..If it's required at a show, I simply won't give them my hard earned money as an entry fee.. I had a friend DIE because she had on her helmet riding English Pleasure..her horse spooked, she fell off, the helmet hit her in the back of her neck and killed her instantly..So much for safety..And before you say "the helmet didn't fit", I assure you, it did. This girl was serious about showing and nothing less than winning was tolerated from her trainer and parents.


----------



## dbarabians

Wearing a helmet should be a personal desicion for an adult.
I can see wearing one when eventing that makes sense, and in places without legal protection from lawsuits.
I have owned horses for over 46 years. I have broken both collar bones, fractured an arm, and dislocated my shoulder riding. A helmet would have given me no protection. I do not fear injury every time I ride my horses. That is my choice I alone will deal with the consequences. Shalom


----------



## mildot

DrumRunner said:


> I had a friend DIE because she had on her helmet riding English Pleasure..her horse spooked, she fell off, the helmet hit her in the back of her neck and killed her instantly.


If the helmet moved enough hit her in the back of the neck then it most assuredly did not fit her correctly. 

Was it even an ASTM approved helmet or one of those cheesy "hunt caps" that I see most riders wearing in breed show pleasure classes. 

Not wearing one because you think your friend died because she wore one is about as smart as not wearing a seatbelt because "you're safer if you get thrown from the car".

Need an eyeroll smiley really bad here.

And it does seem that endurance orgs don't really care about this issue so feel free to ride there.


----------



## mildot

dbarabians said:


> Wearing a helmet should be a personal desicion for an adult.


It is. You can decide to not wear one. Just be ready to be turned away from certain places to ride.



dbarabians said:


> I can see wearing one when eventing that makes sense


This woman is a world class rider who has represented the US in international and olympic dressage. About as low risk a riding sport as it gets. Yet this is what happened to her when her horse slipped doing simple arena flatwork. No jumping. No cantering. No galloping. Just walking.








dbarabians said:


> and in places without legal protection from lawsuits.


Your state is not the only one with an equine liability law. And I can find you lots of boarding stables in YOUR state where you will NOT be allowed to ride YOUR OWN HORSE on their property unless you wear a helmet. Complete non-sequitur.


----------



## DrumRunner

If it's my time to go a helmet or seatbelt isn't going to stop me from dying. I'm not going to be afraid and worry about a head injury every time I ride my horse. 

You can eyeroll all you want, go for it. Do you honestly think you doubting what I say hurts my feelings? I don't care whether you believe me or not, I have nothing to prove to you.


----------



## mildot

DrumRunner said:


> I'm not going to be afraid and worry about a head injury every time I ride my horse.


Yep. We're cowards alright......


----------



## dbarabians

Mildot insisting that others live in accordance to your standards is not logical or healthy. Your position does not require validation from others. From your post it appears that if what you are seeking. Shalom


----------



## DrumRunner

mildot said:


> Yep. We're cowards alright......


You came up with that yourself..I never said anything like that..Hmm.



mildot said:


> Your state is not the only one with an equine liability law. And I can find you lots of boarding stables in YOUR state where you will NOT be allowed to ride YOUR OWN HORSE on their property unless you wear a helmet. Complete non-sequitur.


And? You can find just as many stables and facilities that don't require you to wear a helmet.. Simply don't board there..No one said you had to.


----------



## tlkng1

dbarabians said:


> Ckemom I don't know where you live but that does not apply here in Texas I assure you. I don't know of any horse shows that require you to wear a helmet.
> In Texas you cannot sue anyone due to a horse related accident covered in section 87 of the state civil code.
> I will only participate in AERC events if I choose to do so as I will not wear a helmet or be forced to do so as an adult. Shalom


If AERC requires a helmet for adults tpo participate, unless you don't ride you won't have a choice if you want to compete. Instead opf making a braod statement like that, since you aren't even sure yet if it is required, if it is, the place to take action is with the Board of Directors. Taking that stance at a ride isn't going to get you more than rolled eyes and possible expulsion from the grounds if you are breaking the rules.


----------



## tlkng1

DrumRunner said:


> Mildot, what you're missing is that the OP is riding endurance..Not dressage, jumping, or any of the others you've listed. There are different rules for different situations and shows.
> 
> Around here all of the English disciplines require a helmet while western does not, trail does not, and endurance does not (that I know of).. NBHA shows don't require a helmet at all. Other state wide "associations" that show all disciplines don't require a helmet unless it's dressage, jumping, or English equitation stuff..All Western disciplines don't require a helmet and there is only an age requirement of 12 years old to wear a helmet..
> 
> I personally don't wear a helmet and never will..If it's required at a show, I simply won't give them my hard earned money as an entry fee.. I had a friend DIE because she had on her helmet riding English Pleasure..her horse spooked, she fell off, the helmet hit her in the back of her neck and killed her instantly..So much for safety..And before you say "the helmet didn't fit", I assure you, it did. This girl was serious about showing and nothing less than winning was tolerated from her trainer and parents.


Unfortunately freak incidents do happen...helmets are not 100% guaranteed protection but they certainly help in 99% (figure of speech no I don't have the actual stats) of the situations encountered.


----------



## tlkng1

dbarabians said:


> Wearing a helmet should be a personal desicion for an adult.
> I can see wearing one when eventing that makes sense, and in places without legal protection from lawsuits.
> I have owned horses for over 46 years. I have broken both collar bones, fractured an arm, and dislocated my shoulder riding. A helmet would have given me no protection. I do not fear injury every time I ride my horses. That is my choice I alone will deal with the consequences. Shalom


db..I am sorry but that is just a silly statement. A helmet protects the head, not every bone in your body and no one here has ever stated that a helmet protects a rider from all injuries.

I also doubt anyone who rides fears injury each time they mounted or I doubt highly they would be riding for long. Wearing a hlemet is simply an easy step to take to add a little more precaution; it isn't fear regardless of how someone rides whether trail, western, eventing, dressage etc....

One fact remainsd however, how you conduct your riding at home or in an otherwise unregulated location is up to you. You choose not to wear a helmet, up to you. If, however, the rules of an association at a sanctioned/licensed event, which would require anyone mounted, regardless of age, to wear a helmet, you either grouse under your breath and comply or you don't ride and if you decide to try and make a statement and break those rules, you risk expulsion from the grounds and possibly higher sanctions from the related association. 

.


----------



## Meatos

I'm very new to horses, but learned the other day that Canada is the first country in the world to make helmets mandatory for top level dressage competitions. So goodbye top hats. It just makes sense to me and I hope other disciplines in Canada and other countries follow suit. I think once more top level competitions start making helmets mandatory, sleeker protective helmets will come on the market and hopefully more riders will find them easier to wear and will use them. I just can't imagine not wearing one, whether you're a newbie rider, seasoned rider, or competitive rider.


----------



## tlkng1

Meatos said:


> I'm very new to horses, but learned the other day that Canada is the first country in the world to make helmets mandatory for top level dressage competitions. So goodbye top hats. It just makes sense to me and I hope other disciplines in Canada and other countries follow suit. I think once more top level competitions start making helmets mandatory, sleeker protective helmets will come on the market and hopefully more riders will find them easier to wear and will use them. I just can't imagine not wearing one, whether you're a newbie rider, seasoned rider, or competitive rider.


THe USEF has made helmets mandatory for dressage for anyone riding through fourth level but optional for those above fourth level..at least for now; one exception, any rider under the age of 18 riding FEI or upper level tests above fourth level are still required to wear a helmet. Still, a helmet is now optional wear (in place of the top hat) for adult upper level riders and judges cannot deduct points if say a PSG rider decides to wear a helmet rather than the traditional top hat. Personally, I like the rule change, maybe not mandatory wear but the optional, uhm, option.

Of course, the companies making the top hats and charging $300 might not care for the new option


----------



## dbarabians

To each his own.
I asked a simple question.
It seems those who wear helmets think everyone else should do so. It is a personal desicion as far as I am concerned.
I might compete in rides that do not require them and would never wear a helmet at home so I have no use for a helmet. Shalom


----------



## bsms

Any organization sponsoring an endurance ride, trail ride, show, etc should be free to set the rules they believe make sense. And if someone doesn't like those rules, they don't have to compete in the event.

From the statistics I've seen, wearing a helmet reduces one's risk of head injury by around 50% in a fall. There are so many variables in the real world that precise numbers aren't possible.

A jumping competition has greater risk WITH helmet use than most other events do without them. That is because jumping competitions have a much higher rate of falls - anywhere from 5-80 times.

However, it remains up to each rider , family and event organizer to decide how much risk they are willing to accept, and how they reduce the risk. I can easily see how an endurance race organizer would require helmets. They just don't want to accept liability or take a chance in court if someone gets hit in the head with a branch, or takes a tumble on a rocky trail.

Equine liability laws are not absolute. Every one I've read so far has exceptions for accidents caused by not following normal safety practices. In my home state of Arizona, the law includes:

"B. Subsection A does not apply to an equine owner or agent of the equine owner who is grossly negligent or commits wilful, wanton or intentional acts or omissions."

"D. Subsection C does not apply to an owner, lessor or agent of any riding stable, rodeo ground, training or boarding stable or other private property that is used by a rider or handler of an equine if either of the following applies:

1. The owner, lessor or agent knows or should know that a hazardous condition exists and the owner, lessor or agent fails to disclose the hazardous condition to a rider or handler of an equine.

2. The owner, lessor or agent is grossly negligent or commits wilful, wanton or intentional acts or omissions."

Those are loopholes a lawyer can drive a truck thru.

I sometimes wear a cowboy hat instead of a helmet. Why? Because the sun is so intense in southern Arizona that I sometimes feel a wide brim improves my vision enough that it makes me safer than I would be half-blind in my helmet.

But I do understand why some event organizers make helmets mandatory. Even if they won in court, their bills could still put them out of business.


----------



## mildot

bsms, I'm glad you brought some reality to the silliness about equine liability laws.

I was thinking about doing it last night but was too tired to go find the statute from Texas and show how, like you say, any good lawyer can drive a truck through the exceptions.


----------



## mildot

dbarabians said:


> It seems those who wear helmets think everyone else should do so.


I think everyone should. But I'm not going to make everyone do so. There's a huge difference there that some people just miss.

Now this isn't directed at you personally, but I am going to say it since it relates to this whole discussion: 

I do have a problem with statements that "no one should impose a helmet requirement" or that "helmets are unsafe/cause neck injuries/don't prevent broken bones" or the like. They are nonsense. If we're going to debate this, do so from a rational position. Not wanting to wear one while knowing that your risk for head injuries is greater is a rational position to take. Making up silly excuses like the ones that have been mentioned here is not. Saying that no private organization should force their choice on members is also nonsense. If you don't like the rules of a particular group, fine, go someplace else.



dbarabians said:


> I might compete in rides that do not require them and would never wear a helmet at home so I have no use for a helmet. Shalom


And that's fine. Just be aware that outside of the western and casual trail rider world, your opportunities are going to be severely limited. Even though it appears that the national endurance orgs only require helmets for juniors, that does not mean that regional and local organizers will not require them from everyone.

I just hope, for your family's sake, that you never have to experience a head injury that leaves you having to re-learn everything you used to know how to do, including how to speak. That's what happened to Courtney King-Dye and she ain't no beginner.


----------



## dbarabians

bsms, in the state of Texas section 87 was specifically written to protect all livestock owners.
Equine professionals are very well covered in texas.
I own 27 horses and over 100 head of cattle. MY families farm is protected and insured to the hilt.
Our insurance agent was not concerned with the horses or cattle. Or even the fact that there is a stallion here. He was concerned about the breed and size of the dogs though.
He only suggested that if I let others ride that I post a sign explaining section 87 and have them sign a waiver stating that they understood the law.
Helmets are good for things like jumping and especially cross country that I fully understand.
Those riders who compete in reining in national and international events wear western hats not helmets. 
Even those that compete in the Olympics. This makes sense. the risk of a head injury is low.
Thanks to all that gave answers to my question without lecturing.
Giving advice and opinions is always good. 
People listen when the debate is civil and without judgement. Shalom


----------



## mildot

dbarabians said:


> bsms, in the state of Texas section 87 was specifically written to protect all livestock owners.


Did you read 87.004 and not see how your immunity is not absolute?



dbarabians said:


> Helmets are good for things like jumping and especially cross country that I fully understand. Even those that compete in the Olympics. This makes sense. the risk of a head injury is low.


Are you ignoring Courtney King-Dye's injury and the countless others like hers that had nothing to do with speed or jumps because it doesn't fit your world view?


----------



## bsms

dbarabians said:


> bsms, in the state of Texas section 87 was specifically written to protect all livestock owners.
> Equine professionals are very well covered in texas...


Sec. 87.004. EXCEPTIONS TO LIMITATION ON LIABILITY.
A person, including an equine activity sponsor or an equine professional, is liable for property damage or damages arising from the personal injury or death caused by a participant in an equine activity if:

(1) the injury or death was caused by faulty equipment or tack used in the equine activity, the person provided the equipment or tack, and the person knew or should have known that the equipment or tack was faulty;

(2) the person provided the equine animal and the person did not make a reasonable and prudent effort to determine the ability of the participant to engage safely in the equine activity and determine the ability of the participant to safely manage the equine animal, taking into account the participant’s representations of ability;

(3) the injury or death was caused by a dangerous latent condition of land for which warning signs, written notices, or verbal warnings were not conspicuously posted or provided to the participant, and the land was owned, leased, or otherwise under the control of the person at the time of the injury or death and the person knew of the dangerous latent condition;

*(4) the person committed an act or omission with wilful or wanton disregard for the safety of the participant and that act or omission caused the injury*; or

(5) the person intentionally caused the injury or death."​Equine Law in Texas - equine activity statute

Now go to court. No one on the jury has ever owned a horse. The lawyer argues that the event sponsor committed an act of omission with willful disregard for safety by not requiring safety equipment used in international competition. He points out that even dressage riders now need to wear helmets in an arena, so how much more should riders travelling at speed over rough trails.

Are you willing to bet your organization's future on the outcome? Mind you, if I was on the jury, I would argue an endurance rider knows enough to assess his/her own risk. But if I was an event sponsor, would I bet everything I own, and my organization's future, on the jury agreeing with bsms?

"Heck no!" is a bit milder than what my answer would be to that question.

I agree with mildot. ( :shock:  )

I think wearing helmets is an individual choice. In my case, I wear a helmet about 90% of the time...but I have no objection to anyone outside my minor family members (one daughter left) wearing a cowboy hat. Their noggin, their choice. 

But as an event sponsor, would I accept the risk of a court case? Nope!

I'll add that if you came and rode my horse on my property, you would wear a helmet - for the same reason.


----------



## mildot

bsms said:


> I'll add that if you came and rode my horse on my property, you would wear a helmet - for the same reason.


I'll go one further. If someone came on MY property to ride THEIR horse, they would wear a helmet or they would leave.


----------



## AnitaAnne

First let me say I am not an endurance rider, but I hope to be one as soon as my Rocky & I are trained for it. 

Second, I have been a Dressage rider for many years, and most of the time did not wear a helmet, it just wasn't done to ride Dressage in a helmet. 

However, one day several years ago I went on a trail ride on a friend's horse and was told clearly, "no helmet = no ride". So I put on a helmet.

I discovered that helmets had come a long way and were actually quite comfortable. They keep my head cooler than without one & the headband area keeps the sweat out of my eyes. Plus shade my eyes from the sun. So I am a convert. 

I am not worried about the fashion side of things, so I really wonder why I followed the "no hardhat look" in Dressage. Luckily for me, I got wiser long before King's accident, and I was pleased to see her accident had such a positive impact on the sport. I miss watching her ride though, she was a very connected rider, making even the hardest movement look effortless. Very sad what happened to her. Everyone talked in whispers when disscussing it, the accident so shocked the Dressage community.

If I can have head protection, and be more comfortable, why not do it?

I always mde my children wear them, same as seatbelts, so why not me? 

I would have more respect for an event that require safety helmets because it would mean to me that they were careful in other areas. 

There will always be people that break rules just to break rules, which is why the whole court system exists. Those folks that are earning money in the court system thank those people that don't use common sense...


----------



## dbarabians

I do not live in fear of either a lawsuit or severe brain trauma.
I will not wear a helmet and no one riding on my property need wear one either. EVER.
If you choose to wear one that is your decision does not bother me at all.
If you walk behind my horse or fall off one and injure yourself you CANNOT sue me in the State of Texas or any organization that sponsors an event you are injured at. That I can assure you.
There are inherent risk when handling ANY horse. If they can stand and they breathe they can kick you. If they are ridden they can and will buck. There is no such thing as a bomb proof horse.
If they are breathing they all can buck kick or bite.
Mildot and bsms when you present your opinions without lecturing people will listen. When you lecture you waste your energy spent on typing or talking because people no longer care about anything you post.
I asked a simple question. A simple answer was all that was required.
I may attend some endurance rides that do not require helmets. Most of the rides here in Texas from my research wisely do not. If I want to ride in the Tevis i will wear one then. Shalom


----------



## maura

Helmets are traditionally a hot button topic on forums; sort of like rollkur or Natural Horsemanship. Strong opinions on both sides; neither likely to convince the other. 

But I'd like to comment on several points raised during this thread. 

Yes, the OP's first post merely asked if helments were mandatory in endurance events. However, you also commmented on helmets being uncomfortable, which kicked off a lot of the rest of the conversation. Threads don't drift off topic by themselves. That this thread turned into helmet vs. anti-helmet was as inevitable as the sun rising in the east. 

While nobody likes to be lectured to; if you state what you reasonably know is a controversial position on a public message board, don't be surprised if a lecture follows. 

"I can't be sued" is a gross oversimplification of the equine liability laws. Anyone can sue anybody for anything. How far they get, and how likely they are to prevail, does depend on local statute and precedent. My understanding is (and please, anyone with actual legal training, please correct me if I'm wrong) that none of the existing state equine liability laws protect you if the plaintiff alleges negligence. Horse spooks, rider falls and gets hurt, no liability. Horse spooks because barn owner drove a tractor by the ring where a beginner lesson is taking place, horses spook, rider falls and gets hurt - you may be liable because you were negligent. A reasonable person could predict that the tractor would spook the horses and beginners couldn't control a spooking horse. 

Virginia's law says in part "shall not be liable for an injury to or death of a participant resulting from the *intrinsic* dangers of equine activities" (emphasis mine.) Intrinsic means the unpredicatability inherent in working with horses. It doesn't cover an instructor failing to tighten a girth or cinch, or putting someone on a horse that they reasonably could predict the rider can't control - that's negligence. It doesn't cover event organizers who allow events to continue in unsafe conditions. 

Riders and professionals in any state need to understand their own's state statute, and exactly what it does and doesn't cover. It is not the blanket "Get out of jail free" card that people seem to think it is.


----------



## bsms

dbarabians said:


> I do not live in fear of either a lawsuit or severe brain trauma...
> 
> ...If you walk behind my horse or fall off one and injure yourself you CANNOT sue me in the State of Texas or any organization that sponsors an event you are injured at. That I can assure you...
> 
> ...Mildot and bsms when you present your opinions without lecturing people will listen. When you lecture you waste your energy spent on typing or talking because people no longer care about anything you post...


1 - You can be sued for anything, anywhere. How likely a given lawsuit is to succeed varies greatly. However, anyone who thinks an equine liability law gives them blanket protection from a successful lawsuit really OUGHT to read the law. In Texas, as in Arizona, it specifically does NOT cover willful acts of omission - and what that consists of depends on a judge or jury on any given day.

2 - A lecture is an logical presentation of facts meant to instruct someone in an area they do not know a lot about. I thank you for considering my comments a lecture, and hope mildot feels likewise. You are welcome.

But of course, you don't want a lecture...so why did you post a question?

Were you seeking sympathy, or emotional affirmation? What you got was a non-judgmental, fact-based response. I have not insulted you, called you names, or suggested your choice of headgear is wrong.

But if quoting the law on discussions involving the law bothers you, feel free to skip reading my future posts.

For example, from Texas:_"Plaintiff Steeg was injured while on a trail ride operated by defendant. The injury resulted from a saddle that slipped after plaintiff’s horse ran away with him. The trial court granted defendant’s motion for summary judgment on the ground that a slipping saddle is an inherent risk of equine activity under the Texas equine activity statute. In this opinion, the Court of Appeals reverses the decision of the trial court. The statute does not protect against defendant’s negligence. There was sufficient evidence that the injury may have resulted from negligence to preclude summary judgment under the statute._"​Steeg v

From Georgia:
_Plaintiff Taylor was seriously injured when he attempted to mount a horse owned by the defendant. The horse was green broke, but plaintiff testified that defendant told him the horse was a good, rideable horse. The trial court granted summary judgment for the defendant, but in this opinion the Court of Appeals disagrees with that decision. The equine activity statute did not protect the defendant since the testimony established a factual issue whether the defendant made a proper effort to match horse with rider and the plaintiff could not be said to have assumed the risk of the accident if he was not give accurate information about the horse._​New Page 1

For anyone interested in the law & horses, I strongly recommend this site:

Equine Activity Laws


----------



## dbarabians

Wearing a helmet or not is my personal choice. I will not wear one I do not have to it is that simple.
For the record I don't wear any hats. I find them all uncomfortable.
I do not think that wearing a helmet is a controversial subject and only seems to be for those that insist e veryone wear one.
Lecturing someone about not wearing a helmet is a ridiculous waste of time.
I am thankful for the post that suggested a helmet that was comfortable.
As for the liability issue the chance of being sued successfully is slim to none.
The lawyer that handles this estate and the insurance agent are very certain that not only I but any horse owner in Texas is safe except in cases of extreme negligence.
Wearing a helmet or not has no bearing on matters of extreme negligence.
Therefore liabilty insurance at events or arenas would not be raised for not making helmets mandatory.
I asked the question to learn as much as I could about endurance racing and while reading the rules found nothing about helmets. Shalom


----------



## AnitaAnne

dbarabians said:


> Wearing a helmet or not is my personal choice. I will not wear one I do not have to it is that simple.
> For the record I don't wear any hats. I find them all uncomfortable.
> I do not think that wearing a helmet is a controversial subject and only seems to be for those that insist e veryone wear one.
> Lecturing someone about not wearing a helmet is a ridiculous waste of time.
> I am thankful for the post that suggested a helmet that was comfortable.
> As for the liability issue the chance of being sued successfully is slim to none.
> The lawyer that handles this estate and the insurance agent are very certain that not only I but any horse owner in Texas is safe except in cases of extreme negligence.
> Wearing a helmet or not has no bearing on matters of extreme negligence.
> Therefore liabilty insurance at events or arenas would not be raised for not making helmets mandatory.
> I asked the question to learn as much as I could about endurance racing and while reading the rules found nothing about helmets. Shalom


I had a wonderful post for this and suddenly - computer snafu! 
I will try again...

I am not an official with AERC, but I did search the website, the only rule on helmets is they are required for juniors. 

So that is the answer to your question. 

I will add that I thought of this thread as I was riding my Rocky with my teenage girls. It is the first time in a very long time that I have given a second thought to wearing a helmet. I just put it on, just like my boots & gloves, just another piece of equipment I wear when I ride. 

Some people ride in shorts and flip-flops. It sure seams strange to me, but I try not to judge. I don't think it is my place to do so. "Do not judge" is what I was brought up to believe. 

The other thing I was brought up to believe, is not to ask anyone else to do something you are not willing to do. Another way, leading by example. 

How could I expect my kids to wear something I won't? They used to fuss and complain at the begining when I bought them horses, but not anymore. They just put them on too. We do it right after putting on the saddle and before the bridle. 

In the beastly humidity here, we finish riding covered with sweat, but no sun-burnt faces, there are always compromises in life!


----------



## Wallee

Read through the whole thread and its just the same old debate. Everyone has their own op some make more sense than others but all in all I believe in freedom of choice, now if that prohibits me from riding in a certain event then so be it I cant ride, for anyone who pointed that simple point out that well you just cant ride in that event then!....... Lol thanks for pointing out the obvious. But for me I will just ride in what I can and do it how I chose to if that bothers others then oh well I dont go around walking on egg shells for others, and never will. If you like helmets then cool thats awesome! If you hate them and dont want to wear them cool thats awesome too ha ha. Keep in mind its your head and you only get one so use it wisely. I am rambling now so lets just get to the point here, FREEDOM OF CHOICE!


----------



## dbarabians

AnitaAnne, thanks for a rational post explaining your reasons for wearing a helmet.
I am looking at a couple of rides here in Texas and trying to learn as much about the sport as possible.
I last rode in an endurance ride in the mid 90's on a 16 year old gelding that Had never been on one and enjoyed it. It was only 25 miles but had a lot of fun.
Now that I am semi retired and have all these wonderful Arabians I am thinking about trying it again.
I often ride at least 10-15 miles once a week on my stallion and another mare. I think they would be great for it.
Like I said if I really like it and want to go to the Tevis then I could overlook the fact that helmets are required swallow my pride and wear one. Shalom


----------



## AnitaAnne

PS - I don't like cowboy hats because they blow off all the time. Pain in the neck, but cute when you go out dancing!

Anyway, yes, the helmets can be comfortable, they are so lightweight now, and so many designs and colors too! I see more and more people out riding on trails with them. They can be very practical and fancy too. 

You can chose not to wear a helmet according to the AERC rules, but you must be prepared to get some negative comments and questions, even if that is not fair. Most endurance riders are really nice people though, but better to be prepared.

Also, call ahead because it might be a rule to wear a helmet at the specific event, so you can make an informed choice what to do.


----------



## AnitaAnne

dbarabians said:


> AnitaAnne, thanks for a rational post explaining your reasons for wearing a helmet.
> I am looking at a couple of rides here in Texas and trying to learn as much about the sport as possible.
> I last rode in an endurance ride in the mid 90's on a 16 year old gelding that Had never been on one and enjoyed it. It was only 25 miles but had a lot of fun.
> Now that I am semi retired and have all these wonderful Arabians I am thinking about trying it again.
> I often ride at least 10-15 miles once a week on my stallion and another mare. I think they would be great for it.
> Like I said if I really like it and want to go to the Tevis then I could overlook the fact that helmets are required swallow my pride and wear one. Shalom


You are welcome, but I like to think manners never go out of fashion

Arabs do outnumber most other breeds on the rides, sounds like yours are in good condition already. Enjoy the ride.


----------



## Wallee

AnitaAnne said:


> PS - I don't like cowboy hats because they blow off all the time. Pain in the neck, but cute when you go out dancing!QUOTE]
> 
> 
> My cowboy hat doesnt fall off  Get a good fitted one and you will wear it all the time riding! Nice shade for the face XD


----------



## dbarabians

Anita anne thanks once again.
I do not wear western hats either. I do however wear a lot of sunscreen.
In this Texas heat anything on your head is hot. I do not ride between 11 am and 4 pm mid may - mid Sept. When I have to to work cattle on horseback I may wear a ball cap for extra protection from the sun but only then.
I'm 52 and have a full head of hair with very little gray. I like to show it off. LOL Shalom


----------



## phantomhorse13

dbarabians said:


> I am looking at a couple of rides here in Texas and trying to learn as much about the sport as possible.
> I last rode in an endurance ride in the mid 90's on a 16 year old gelding that Had never been on one and enjoyed it. It was only 25 miles but had a lot of fun.
> Now that I am semi retired and have all these wonderful Arabians I am thinking about trying it again.



Best way to know for sure about if helmets are required at a ride is to contact the ride manager (their contact info should be listed on the AERC regional ride calendar for your area). Should be a simple yes or no answer.


At least in this region, the distance you are riding (LD vs longer) doesn't make a difference in terms of helmet requirements. Even people riding "just the LD" (and I say that very tongue-in-cheek as LD vs "real" endurance is a whole other silly debate) need helmets in this region.


----------



## tlkng1

dbarabians said:


> Like I said if I really like it and want to go to the Tevis then I could overlook the fact that helmets are required swallow my pride and wear one. Shalom


I'll leave this one alone...swallow your pride?


----------



## trvlingheart

I wear helmets when required to do so, but if I am riding alone on my own property and/or horse I do not wear a helmet. Like seatbelts I find them to protect from injury 50% of the time. My neck was injured during a fall from over extension of the head and the edge of the helmet hitting the back of my neck; so injuries do and can happen from a properly fitted helmet. But just like a seat belt I find it to be a choice one should have the ability to make for them selves in every day riding, if you ride in an event then due to insurance you may or may not have to wear one.


----------



## dbarabians

I was re reading the Winter Arabian Horse World article about the Tevis.
Included with the article is a picture of the 3rd place finisher Dennis Summers competeing with a ball cap on.
I may make it to the Tevis sooner than I thought or at least put it on my bucket list. Shalom


----------

