# Horse bucks at a canter. Bad behavior or pain?



## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Bump!
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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

If he's out of shape as you say, have you considered that you might just be pushing him too hard? He may not have the fitness to canter much yet.
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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Being out of shape is a real possible, has he had his teeth looked at? Yeah I know right, but two weeks after having my boys teeth done he can now lope on both reins, something he couldn't do before, as he tried to flex to pick up his left lead his teeth were actually stabbing him.

Does he do this on both reins? or only one way? 

What happens if you circle small at the flat end of the arena, can you hold the canter there?

While it COULD be a physical issue with him, it is also possible that you are now causing the issue by anticipating the problem, you may have got yourself into a self fulfilling prophecy situation, you tense up waiting for trouble, he get tense wondering what the problem is, and it just goes downhill.

Lastly do you get this issue anywhere else, or does he do it if someone else rides him in teh same area?


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

DancingArabian said:


> If he's out of shape as you say, have you considered that you might just be pushing him too hard? He may not have the fitness to canter much yet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not asking him to canter much. Usually just half the arena or twice in each direction.
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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Being out of shape is a real possible, has he had his teeth looked at? Yeah I know right, but two weeks after having my boys teeth done he can now lope on both reins, something he couldn't do before, as he tried to flex to pick up his left lead his teeth were actually stabbing him.
> 
> Does he do this on both reins? or only one way?
> 
> ...


His teeth were just done in February. He does it mostly going clockwise but is also unwilling to do it counterclockwise as well. He'll just usually stop at the little hill going counter clockwise. 

I haven't tried just cantering at the flat part but I will try that. I don't usually tense up because I never expect it. He mostly does big bucks when I have the crop. I haven't had anyone else ride him before either.
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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Cowgirls Boots said:


> I'm not asking him to canter much. Usually just half the arena or twice in each direction.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It still might be too much for him. There's plenty of horses out there who are not cantered under saddle until after several weeks of walk/trot work.

Does he canter on a lunge line? In a round pen?
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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

He canters on the lunge fine. Just getting him into it and keeping him there takes effort he's so lazy lol. No bucking on the lunge either and I use my lunge whip
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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

Will he canter in the arena if he is loose? If not he might feel too enclosed to be comfortable cantering in the arena. 

I posted this on a different thread before maybe it can help you also:

disclaimer: I don't thing this will work with every horse but I think it worked for us. First, my gelding has a very serious personality he just doesn't know how to have fun if your horse has the same type of personality this might work. 

So I felt like he needed to "loosen up" and learn to have fun - instead of associating loping with just work. I thought if I could show him that loping could be fun he wouldn't buck at the transition. So I took him to a friends ranch where we had room to run and I ran him with a few other horses. I didn't give him any corrections, or even where we were going. We raced around with the other horses, jumping over cactus, arroyos what ever and he got to control our speed from an easy lope to full on run. I just gave him permission to have fun and as soon as he realized we were there for fun his whole attitude about it changed. I think who ever had him before rode him pretty hard. I try to keep a fun attitude with him when we ride and make it feel like - loping is fun lets go! My horse just needed a light to click on about it. Since then he goes into the transition without a hitch. 

Maybe this will offer a little inspiration!


On another note, if I had a horse that reacted the way you described to the crop I would stop using it. I see you building up tremendous resentment from your horse and this is going to be hard to dissolve away. My biggest advise to you is put the crop away.


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Thank you. I rarely ride with a crop anymore but if he's being a brat that's one of the only things he will listen to. So either he hates it because he knows that means he HAS to do something or he just hates being tapped on the butt? I dunno. But yes you're right roux. I barely ride with the crop anymore. 

I can't get him to canter loose because he just trots away from me and I can't get close enough to him to try and make him do anything. 
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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Cowgirls Boots said:


> Thank you. I rarely ride with a crop anymore but if he's being a brat that's one of the only things he will listen to. So either he hates it because he knows that means he HAS to do something or he just hates being tapped on the butt? I dunno. But yes you're right roux. I barely ride with the crop anymore.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Do you actually hit him on the butt with it? That often provokes a buck, or do you hit him behind your leg to reinforce the leg aid? When you get after him are you leaving him space to go or are you anticipating the buck and holding him to tight?

Sorry don't mean to sound like the inquisition, but just thoughts that are coming to mind of what might prompt the behaviour.:wink:


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

I do hit him on the butt. Not wailing on him. Just a firm tap. I leave him space to go. I don't hold him too tight. Usually he's on a fairly loose rein when I'm asking him to canter because I know he needs the looser rein. 

No worries at all! Keep the questions comin :lol: I just want to get opinions because it could very well be me causing it and if so I want to fix it. 
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## kiwi79 (Nov 11, 2011)

Have you cleaned his sheath recently? My gelding put in some huge bucks at a canter last week which was unusual for him as he has only ever done the odd pig root when excited. I gave him a clean and pulled out the biggest lump of gunk, it cant have been comfortable and its the first time he has ever lifted a leg to kick even though he didn't follow through. It was stuck solid to the skin and took awhile to work loose with lots of sheath gel. Have ridden him since then and no bucks. Just a thought!


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Sheath was my thought too.

However, would also wonder if you are missing something pain related to old saddle.

Could also have bone spurs, muscle tears, or any assortment of things that are causing this.

May need chiro adjustment.

But if you don't change what is going on here, you are going to have a horse that you have ruined. He is telling you the best he can something is wrong somewhere, and if you keep pushing this, without doing the diagnostics to see what is wrong you are going to ruin him.

Could also be your riding mechanics are bad, too heavy on one side or other, twisting in saddle or being uneven, or saddle placement is bad.

Videos and still shots of saddle fit and horse with no tack would be best, to see what is going on here.


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## livelyblueyes (Apr 5, 2014)

How long had he been unworked prior to you getting him? ALso how much training had he had prior to obtaining him? I know when I used to help start horses they would throw a few mini bucks at first with cantering/loping . They were not out to remove the rider just trying to figure out how to move with a rider on their back at that gait. With us we kept them on flat work no hills until they had zero issues in that area. Also be aware that it takes time for them to build appropriate muscle to handle it. As far as the crop goes..I would put it to the side. You have plenty of other aids at your disposal that can be just as if not more effective. Do not let that crop become your crutch. Don't take that wrong just friendly advice. Start from the ground and work him more on voice aids as well. Our horses went more by tone of voice that what was actually said. You could say trot all day long in a low voice and our horses would slow down.. give it a higher pitch and they speed up. I do not mean how loud I mean literally tone of voice. Your seat can enforce your goals just as much as your crop if not more so.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

If he is bucking at a certain spot, I would make him canter that spot on the lungeline. If he doesn't buck, than it probably (not definitely) isn't physical.

Horses do not always react well to the crop. I would have a trainer (or friend) come and take a lunge whip. Instead of using the crop, ask with your legs and have your friend reinforce with the lunge whip.

If your horse is extremely lazy, sometimes it helps to have someone on the ground with a lunge whip to reinforce you, rather than tapping them in the rump.


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

livelyblueyes said:


> How long had he been unworked prior to you getting him? ALso how much training had he had prior to obtaining him? I know when I used to help start horses they would throw a few mini bucks at first with cantering/loping . They were not out to remove the rider just trying to figure out how to move with a rider on their back at that gait. With us we kept them on flat work no hills until they had zero issues in that area. Also be aware that it takes time for them to build appropriate muscle to handle it. As far as the crop goes..I would put it to the side. You have plenty of other aids at your disposal that can be just as if not more effective. Do not let that crop become your crutch. Don't take that wrong just friendly advice. Start from the ground and work him more on voice aids as well. Our horses went more by tone of voice that what was actually said. You could say trot all day long in a low voice and our horses would slow down.. give it a higher pitch and they speed up. I do not mean how loud I mean literally tone of voice. Your seat can enforce your goals just as much as your crop if not more so.


Last August when I got him he hadn't been ridden or worked in over a year. Since August I have ridden him regularly and sporadic during winter months. 

He's actually fairly well trained. Weather he listens or not is another story, haha. He's voice command trained but only really listens on the lunge. He had some dressage training and side passes ok. Alittle rusty there. And of course he will WTC. The only time he bucks is in that certain part of the ring though which is why I think it's behavioral.
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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

4horses said:


> If he is bucking at a certain spot, I would make him canter that spot on the lungeline. If he doesn't buck, than it probably (not definitely) isn't physical.
> 
> Horses do not always react well to the crop. I would have a trainer (or friend) come and take a lunge whip. Instead of using the crop, ask with your legs and have your friend reinforce with the lunge whip.
> 
> If your horse is extremely lazy, sometimes it helps to have someone on the ground with a lunge whip to reinforce you, rather than tapping them in the rump.


Thank you! Yeah I think he associates that part of the ring with the crop now and gets fresh. I for the most part stopped using it but I am going to totally put it away.
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## DanielDauphin (Mar 11, 2014)

It sounds to me like a clear training issue. Yes, there can be pain issues, and I am glad cleaning his sheath was mentioned. 
IMO though, the parts about his reaction to the crop and certain part of the arena indicate that you have allowed a "wall" to be built. He is basically threatening you not to push him into a lope and you are backing off. You or someone needs to push him THROUGH that wall and make him lope.
As someone who has started nearly 1000 colts, most are not in good shape. They are all loping several circles each way by day 2, why so soon? So walls don't get built. The shape most HLs are in is round anyway. Lol
Whack his lazy butt with that crop and don't stop until he lopes. As soon as he breaks out of the lope, whack again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat! Win! Any horse sound enough to be ridden can do several circles each way . No problem. Making excuses is what causes those walls to be built and also makes a horse with no issues into a danger to be around. Become his leader and he will lope easily.
If his bucks are bad enough that you can not safely ride him through it, find someone who can.
I say this as a trainer who has seen this 100s of times. This is very common and RARELY is it anything other than a training/behavioral issue.


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## DanielDauphin (Mar 11, 2014)

If you do this firmly enough, the problem will be solved in just a few rides. If it persists longer than that you are probably just nagging, or I could be totally wrong. My bad. Sorry...


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

So my friend got on him today because I didn't have my spurs on and he was not listening. I had a dressage whip in my hand but didn't hit him with it. He refused to canter for me until I had the whip in my hand then he picked it up once and then refused again. So my friend got on and MADE him canter and used the whip. He bucked...in that spot he usually does and she got after him when he bucked and made him canter a few laps around the ring. If he tried to stop she made him work harder, if he bucked she made him work harder too. So clearly I feel like he's "threatening" me with bucks to try and get out of work because once he realized with her that she's not taking his sh*t he listened very well. 

So I've come to the conclusion he clearly doesn't respect me and is just trying to get away with murder. Pony boot camp is now under way!
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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

:rofl::rofl: Good Luck, poor Haffy, he thought he had you, but once you get the upper hand he will be a great follower. Haflingers can be stubborn and opinionated, but once you have them convinced you are the boss they are awesome


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