# Signs of bad vision



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Nothing you said makes me think that his eyesight may be an issue.... something making noise is irrelevant, and you wearing a hood vs not wearing a hood is something even a "20/20 horse" may have issue with, same with spooking at rocks- how does spooking at rocks/a hood = not seeing?

Now, that said, I don't think checking his eyesight is at all a bad idea. It could just be the way it is but I think ruling out any possible causes is good.

I'm guessing you'll be having a vet out for shots? Just have them do it as part of his exam. A basic test isn't too complicated.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

My vet has a cute little (and probably expensive) palm sized white plastic box that is an eye camera.

This same vet diagnosed Joker as insulin resistant in May, 2012. Joker foundered pretty bad, so I haven't ridden him in all that time. 

Two years ago I noticed him being a little more spooky than he should be in his home environment. I also started to notice him throw his head up, like he was trying to focus when he was looking for the other horse. Joker would also put his nose to the edge of his stall (it has a three inch lip so he has to step down into the aisle), before stepping into the aisle.

I had Joker at the clinic for something else and asked the house vet to check his eyes, pointing out that Joker has unusual things in his eyes.

The vet took pictures with that little eye camera, put them his computer for examination, and declared Joker has "floaters" just like humans get.

FWIW, I had had the farm vet, who works out of this same clinic, check Joker's eyes a long time ago and she declared he was losing his eyesight. I believe the eye camera which showed floaters. <<-----I said that so you would have a good comparison of what a visual/hand swipe across the eye vs. a machine taking pictures can produce.

If you can get a vet with an eye camera, the results are spot on. I know prices vary but taking pictures of both eyes only cost $25. 

"That's my eye story and I'm stickin' to it", lollol. I hope it helps


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree that nothing you posted would have me suspect an eyesight problem, although would not hurt to check
if your horse used to be a lot less spooky, and now spooks, esp when light is changing, that can definitely be a sign
Hubby' old trail horse , first sign that his eye sight was going downhill, was when riding near dust, on treed trails, he would become hesitant, apprehensive, at something ahead on the trail, like a boulder, that never bothered him before
Horses juts spook when something is 'different, very often, so when you are wearing a hood, they are sometimes not quite sure it is you
If I considered all the reactive horses I had over the years, as that fact being to poor eye sight, I sure would have had a bunch of poor sighted horses!
Some horses just are. Charlie is one, for sure!


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

@Yogiwick @Smilie I do completely agree with you :lol: I've always just considered a lot of this just his nature.. kinda weird and a bit aggravating, but not out of the question. But you know, sometimes things get planted in your brain and you start thinking about EVERYTHING :icon_rolleyes: This suggestion was coming from my non-horsey hubby too so... it makes sense to him. And @walkinthewalk , that is very interesting. I didn't know how hard it was to check vision, or how on earth you would would do that because, well, they can't exactly read you a chart haha. That camera sounds interesting, he does need to go in soon for teeth, so I thought while I was there I might bring it up, just 'cause.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Get your list started, lollol. I used to keep a list of things to ask during Spring and Fall checkups.

Joker now has to go in every five weeks to have the vet's farrier re-set his shoes, so I ask questions for both horses then, if I have to.

Yes, checking their eyes is fairly simple. You can also look at the eyes to see if there is any cloudiness to them, or if there are any unusual "things" in any part of the eyes that you know shouldn't be there.

I agree, with the others, his reaction to your hoods likely isn't anything to do with poor eyesight. Since eyes have been brought up, might just as well add them to the list and lay that question to rest


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Worth checking, but don't be surprised if the vet says there's nothing wrong with his eyes. I had my mare Kodak's eyes checked last summer because she spooks at ridiculous things like her own shadow and seemed worse on one side than the other. Her vision is fine. She's just spooky sometimes and had a lot of scar tissue in her neck that a massage therapist was able to work through. This was causing her some difficulty in turning her neck a certain way. 

But in the end, best to have the eyes checked, and find out they're fine, than not bother, and discover a few years from now that he was losing his eyesight. Just make it part of the next vet visit, like when he comes for vaccinations in the spring.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Smilie said:


> I agree that nothing you posted would have me suspect an eyesight problem, although would not hurt to check
> *if your horse used to be a lot less spooky, and now spooks, esp when light is changing, that can definitely be a sign*
> Hubby' old trail horse , first sign that his eye sight was going downhill, was when riding near dust, on treed trails, he would become hesitant, apprehensive, at something ahead on the trail, like a boulder, that never bothered him before
> Horses juts spook when something is 'different, very often, so when you are wearing a hood, they are sometimes not quite sure it is you
> ...


A good point I didn't think to make^. If he's done it his whole life then to me that says it's not his eyes, he would be used to it at this point. And if it suddenly started I would be thinking it was his eyes.

So think about it the way a horse would to determine if maybe it's his eyes. Sooo...you're standing there without a hood and he suddenly spooks at you not having noticed you were there, stuff like that. Not that he doesn't like the hood, it's not about what they can see but about what they can't see if that makes sense.

An eye example is a top quality and unflappable school master that developed eye issues and one day flipped on her owner and broke her hip. Sat in the pasture for years when they decided to try driving her (I don't understand the logic either). Fine for the trainer but had another moment one day and the novice owner wasn't able to control her resulting in a bad wreck. Back to the pasture she goes. It's a shame but she's not safe. She can see enough but not enough to understand what's happening around her which results in a very unpredictably reactive horse because they might see a shadow or a sudden movement but can't see that it's just a person standing there. That's why a completely blind horse is better than a partially blind horse.

There are various reasons a horse might be overly reactive, for some of them it's just the way things are.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

what IS the 'eye camera"?


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

When my mare was losing her vision it was pretty obvious. Holding her head at odd angles to get a better look, you could tell she was using her sense of smell more, and bumping into things even though she was in familiar territory.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

tinyliny said:


> what IS the 'eye camera"?



I have no idea. 

All I know is the vet held something up to both of Joker's eyes, then walked to the computer area, which I didn't think to pay attention to what he was doing because I was too busy talking. When the vet came back, he announced Joker had floaters and he felt they were why Joker would toss his head up trying to adjust his eyes. I've had floaters since my early 50's and those things are a great source of annoyance to me

It could have been some sort of scanner, for all I know, as opposed to a camera in the real sense. I was caught so off guard by the vet not doing the standard pass-the-hand-in-front-of-the-eye-test that I am used to seeing, I still didn't think to ask, when he came back with his diagnosis.

I know the house vet loves technical toys that will enhance and speed up his work; maybe what he used is something new and not too common. Every piece of equipment he has is state-of-the-art; little wonder people drive four hours from out-of-state to have him look at their horses leg and hoof issues. My little ole Ag county is very fortunate to have him:grin:


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

walkinthewalk said:


> My vet has a cute little (and probably expensive) palm sized white plastic box that is an eye camera.
> 
> *The vet took pictures* with that little eye camera, put them his computer for examination, and *declared Joker has "floaters" *just like humans get.
> 
> ...


*
I'm skeptical. *

Retinal cameras do not photograph "floaters" well at all. (They photograph the retina ... not the floaters in front of the retina.) So I'm very curious how your vet so adamently determined your horse has them from a photo.

It most likely was a camera and not a scanner, because any type of "scanner" I am aware of is going to be some sort of ultrasound (like an A scan or B scan) where you need to physically place a probe on the cornea or else through closed eyelids (which your vet did not do). Ultrasound is very good at spotting large vitreal degenerations (AKA floaters) because it is able to capture everything in it's path. Cameras do not.

Now of course it's possible that your horse _does_ have floaters and that they "spook" him from time to time... but the literature supports that most horses are not bothered by them at all and if they are, it usually results in head shaking (not spooking).

Did your vet even look at him with an direct ophthalmoscope? (A small hand-held instrument with a light, that he would have gotten very close to Joker's eye to look inside it.)


Now, this is a human video, but it has a good explanation of floaters.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

KLJcowgirl said:


> He is constantly spooking at boulders and shadows and stationary things too.
> 
> He thought he was spooked at the four wheeler. But then he took his hood off his head and Duggan totally relaxed.
> 
> I had never considered that for him before, and it just got me thinking. What would tip YOU off that a horse might not be able to see?


Of course it won't hurt to check his vision, but it sounds like he is spooking from things he can SEE, so what you describe does not sound like a vision problem to me. Especially when he recognized Duggan after he took his hood down. ;-) 




KLJcowgirl said:


> I've spent hours at a time loading him and unloading him from a trailer, and he gets it down for the day, but the next time, it's like we never worked on it. He is always a problem loader.


Sounds like a respect problem (ground work); not a vision problem. 

Here's some pointers on that: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/trailer-loading-101-a-205770/


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

I agree. When my friend bought her Appy gelding he was blind, and was a spooky mess. Even now he's very nervous when he's by himself or just with a person, not with other horses. Like others have said though, it wouldn't hurt to check, if nothing else for your piece of mind. 

@Yogiwick I hate that, especially if she was a good beginner horse. Just out of curiosity do you think she would adapt to being totally blind? If so, try putting a fly mask with tape on it or something similar to block her vision and see how she'd do once she adjusted. Not all can adapt, I'm just curious if it would be an option since she sounds like a wonderful horse otherwise. Since you say being partially sighted makes her extremely unpredictable, I imagine she's also nervous most of the time, so she might be happier too once she learned to get around and things weren't constantly changing.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

-----



beau159 said:


> *
> I'm skeptical. *
> 
> Retinal cameras do not photograph "floaters" well at all. (They photograph the retina ... not the floaters in front of the retina.) So I'm very curious how your vet so adamently determined your horse has them from a photo.
> ...


I know what floaters are -- I've lived with them since I was in my early 50's and the ophthalmologist did a stellar job of explaining what they are. 

As I stated somewhere above, I didn't think to ask what that palm sized device the vet used to look in Joker's eyes was. I'm not interrupting his day with a phone call for that, so the question won't be answered until the middle of April, when I take Joker back to get his shoes re-set. 

FWIW, while Joker does seem a bit more spooky at times, he tosses his up when he's looking for Rusty a lot more than he spooks; which is what made me suspicious of eye issues in the first place.:smile:


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

I have a pony that has had major eye problems and still have little to no sight in one eye. I have seen them use a ultrasound to look at both eyes. They do touch to eye after using meds. There is a small cable from the scanner to a larger unit with a screen. It can look a lot like a laptop computer or a large roll around box on wheels. They also use device to check for eye pressure and with the lights turn down, use a device to view the inside of the eyes.


Back to the question. My pony will run wide open across the paddock and stop on a dime, before the fence. They think she sees well out of the one eye. They wave their hands in front of the other and because she does not blink, they think she is can not see out of it. However, when I go up to her at a distance, she will raise her head to me and could only be seeing me out of that eye. But she could also be hearing me. She does jump some of the time. But because she is young. I would make sure that she hears you first and know that you are there. If she knows that you are there, seeing or no, and she jumps? 
But like everyone had said, the next time she is checked by the vet, check the eyes.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> @Yogiwick I hate that, especially if she was a good beginner horse. Just out of curiosity do you think she would adapt to being totally blind? If so, try putting a fly mask with tape on it or something similar to block her vision and see how she'd do once she adjusted. Not all can adapt, I'm just curious if it would be an option since she sounds like a wonderful horse otherwise. Since you say being partially sighted makes her extremely unpredictable, I imagine she's also nervous most of the time, so she might be happier too once she learned to get around and things weren't constantly changing.


Not my horse and this is your stereotypical older dressage lady with lots of money. She has another show/riding horse and is fine with the mare in her backyard. I'm sure the mare is fine with it as well 

When the horse is dangerous I don't know if I'd resort to keeping a flymask on her all the time. Not worth it if it doesn't work.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Yogiwick said:


> Not my horse and this is your stereotypical older dressage lady with lots of money. She has another show/riding horse and is fine with the mare in her backyard. I'm sure the mare is fine with it as well
> 
> When the horse is dangerous I don't know if I'd resort to keeping a flymask on her all the time. Not worth it if it doesn't work.


You're exactly right, I was just genuinely curious what the situation was. As long as the horse is happy and safe that's all that matters. :grin:

I didn't know if her sight was deteriorating, if so that would only be temporary. I've seen it done with a couple different horses and it just came to mind.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

We had a joke about one of the school horses needing glasses as she would approach a jump, stop spook slightly then carry on and jump the fence all without the rider’s interference. 
She wasn’t a naturally spooky or difficult horse at that time so when she started doing this with other objects and movements from people around her they had to change the way she was ridden and handled. She was still ridden in the arena but never jumped again and never ridden by the novices. 
It was a gradual but very noticeable change to her attitude and head carriage, although I think it was both eyes rather than one side. I don’t think they ever had her tested.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> You're exactly right, I was just genuinely curious what the situation was. As long as the horse is happy and safe that's all that matters. :grin:
> 
> I didn't know if her sight was deteriorating, if so that would only be temporary. I've seen it done with a couple different horses and it just came to mind.


I appreciate the thought  I believe the issue is ERU, but am just repeating this third hand as an example for the OP, I am not involved (know the owner and one of her other horses and know of the mare through the grapevine but haven't met her). But everyone is happy with the situation as it is aside from "too bad", and her replacement mount is a real gem. Don't think I was offended at the advice, it's always good to be helpful, just not applicable in this situation.


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