# Wheel Pivots?



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

crimson88 said:


> I have a 5 year old gelding who was "pro trained" previous to me buying him. The trainer who trained him did a poor job, shes a big name trainer in our area but I feel she rushes horses and puts them out in the show ring way before there ready. All she ever worked on with him was fast trotting, and that's all he wants to do as soon as i hook him up. I've been working on relaxing him into a nice forward enjoyable walk. She trained him to do wheel pivots, but like I said she rushed him a lot so he think everything needs to be about speed. He gets the idea of doing it, and he is soft and easy to ask to turn expect he raises his head up and "hops" to the side instead of crossing over his legs. He looks like he is resisting but he isn't. The dirt on our arena is packed and it's not because the wheels are getting stuck in deep dirt. Does anyone know any excercises or things i can do he make him slow down, relax and not think its all about speed? If I give him half halts while I ask for a pivots he gets confused and takes steps backwards.


He may have been trained for CDE's which speed is important but should no how to do calm also. I would work him on the ground pivoting his front and back and and getting him to step over before trying it driving. Are you signaling him with your whip to move away to the side? Also working on your transitions and head position by collecting him up before you tell him what to do should keep his head from coming up. Has someone helped you to make sure everything fits and you have everything correct?


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## crimson88 (Aug 29, 2009)

No, he was trained strictly for country pleasure, pleasure is all she trains. On the ground, he crosses over nicely, no need to poke or pull to get him to move off pressure and cross over. I have a really hard time getting him to round up and collect especially before I ask for a transition. I don't think she ever taught him half haults because he ignores them, though now he is starting to understand what I want from him. When I ask for a pivot I tap his opposite side of the way I'm turning with the whip, like you would use your leg while ridding. I only tap before he acually moves, so I don't incourage him to go any faster. And yes for several months when I first got him I had a trainer help me with him, and previsous to that I was taking lessons from another pleasure driving trainer.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

crimson88 said:


> No, he was trained strictly for country pleasure, pleasure is all she trains. On the ground, he crosses over nicely, no need to poke or pull to get him to move off pressure and cross over. I have a really hard time getting him to round up and collect especially before I ask for a transition. I don't think she ever taught him half haults because he ignores them, though now he is starting to understand what I want from him. When I ask for a pivot I tap his opposite side of the way I'm turning with the whip, like you would use your leg while ridding. I only tap before he acually moves, so I don't incourage him to go any faster. And yes for several months when I first got him I had a trainer help me with him, and previsous to that I was taking lessons from another pleasure driving trainer.


Are you tapping on the shoulder? Which is what you are wanting to move or the Barrel? Also have you tried constant pressure with you thong wrapped up instead of tapping?


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## eliduc (Apr 5, 2010)

My three year old began rushing a little with the cart. It was nothing serious but I didn't want a bad habit to get started. I went back to working on basics in the saddle which is what I am doing right now. I really think that with the CDE popularity too much emphasis is being put on speed. I would really like to see a slow speed class. The winner is the horse that completes a course without breaking from the trot but has the slowest time. It's much easier to allow a horse to go fast than to train it to go slow. I teach my horses to drop their heads and fall into the trot instead of rushing into it. It's not so easy. You first have to teach your horse to collect and flex to the vertical from the poll. The horse is squeezed into the trot while being held back to keep it from rushing into it. The result is that he will come up into resistance from the bit and drop his nose. If he tries to rush into the trot I pull him back to a walk and repeat the exercise until he gets it and rolls into a trot. What I am really after is a slow, consistent western jog. When I ask for him to submit to rein pressure I want him to drop his nose and slow down. I want my cart horse to also be a western pleasure horse. After he is consistent at the jog I will begin extending him a little and do jog/trot transitions. Before I am finished he will be able to quickly transition from a fully extended trot to a jog. A good more advanced exercise is bringing the horse from a posting trot to a jog trot and vis a versa. I also require my horse to canter depart from a standstill and walk. I want him to be able to slow canter and transition back to a jog trot without pulling on me. I won't canter my horse on the cart but it is all about control and safety. Last night I was working on canter stops because he was a little strong in his stops which is no different than rushing forward in his trot departures. I sat down on him and didn't let his head get up until he started dropping his nose when I cued a stop and quit resisting. As a cart horse I don't want a sliding stop but I don't want him stabbing his front feet into the ground either. I always back my horse a step or two from the saddle to get the idea of forward motion out of his head. I don't do it on the cart because I don't want him backing every time I stop. As for the pivot my horse pivots on both the fore and hind quarters and side passes from the ground as well as the saddle. An exercize I do is a half circle pivot on the fore changing to a hind quarter pivot and back to a fore quarter pivot. An exercise that might work with your horse is to teach him to do rectangles from the saddle. From a standstill go five paces forward. Stop. Side pass five paces to the right. Stop. Back five paces. Five paces to the left. After completing the rectangle ask your horse to pivot slowly 360 degrees to the left. Repeat the exercise in the opposite direction. This exercise really requires your horse to use both sides of its brain and switch gears mentally. It's a great communications exercise and makes teaching your horse to do shoulder in and two track much easier. The more you teach your horse from his back the better it will be on the cart. I hope this helps.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

I would like to clear up a misconception.

CDE is NOT NOT NOT about speed.

There is the dressage phase, which is just like ridden dressage only with a cart. No speed.

There is the marathon course. You have a minimum and maximum time to do it in, so again, not about speed persay, if you go too fast there are penalties!

Then the cones course, there is a max time you need to be under to be free of penalties, but since it's about flowing through the course without knocking balls, again, it's not about speed!


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## eliduc (Apr 5, 2010)

When you have a timed event the horse that finishes the course in the fastest time with the fewest faults within the time limit wins so it is about time and speed. I draw your attention to the clip of the Laurals 2005 CDE event at 



. Every competitor is galloping up to, through and away from the marathon water hazard with the drivers screaming "Go, go, go, go boy, git up there go!" so one can not exactly maintain that they are not driving at speed or that there is no emphasis on speed. This is not something we normally do with our pleasure horses which was my point in the first place.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

Maybe you should go attend a CDE or read a lot about them, since you have the wrong idea. Yes, in the hazards, which are a TINY portion of the marathon phase, you are timed and the more time, the more penalties. But other than that TINY section of it, it is NOT, I repeat, NOT about speed. I have been competing in Combined Driving for many years. 

And even in the hazards, it's about ACCURACY. You do NOT get speed until you're further along. You aren't even allowed to break out of the trot until preliminary level.


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## eliduc (Apr 5, 2010)

Actually, I was a groom at a training event last spring. While we never got out of a trot it was enough to tax the horse's stamina by the end of the course. The driver was a professional and the horse was pushed through the entire course. I am not anti CDE. Those are wonderfully trained horses but I will stand by my statement that speed and endurance are factors. If you look at the event results the horses that win usually have the fastest times with the least faults. Of course, it's also possible to go slow and win if you have less faults than everyone else. Anyway, the only point I was trying to make is that driving horses should be trained to go slow before they are trained to go fast in answer to another person's question. It wasn't my intention to initiate a debate about CDE.


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## rush60 (Aug 21, 2010)

Hi. I am pretty new to this also but I trained my horse and he is doing great. For wheel pivots I wanted only one step at a time, as my horse has done reining and I did not want a spin. So i would ask for one step (come or get over) then Whoa stop. and walk on. This taught him that it is no big deal and to take only one step and wait to be asked for the next step. I also tell him come over to pivot rt and get over to pivot left. After he had one step corect I asked for two then whoa and wlak on. I do use my whip as you mentioned but only to reinforce my rein and voice.


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