# Another hunter question



## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

So yesterday I mentioned to a woman who trains hunters that my horse and I are going to get into hunters this winter for fun and to see if we would like it (we are eventers right now but since we can’t do that in the winter we thought this would be a fun way to keep showing through the winter!)

She asked me if I was going to do schooling shows or rated shows, and I said “Well schooling to start since I know nothing about hunters” and she was like “oh ok good, then you’ll be fine, now if you were to say rated shows I’d probably say she’s not really the horse to do those, but…” 

So I was like “Well, what about her wouldn’t make her a good hunter?” And all she would say is that she wasn’t bred to be a hunter! Now, I understand that there are “hunter” looking horses who would do better traditionally than others, but I was a little irritated by her comment! I don’t think she meant it to be mean, but it just came off a little snooty to me, which kinda backs up all of the stereotypes of the hunter world and how political and snobby it is! Now, I didn’t believe that until I talked to this girl, because I have friends who are hunters and they are the polar OPPOSITE of snobby! But geez, the way this trainer was talking it kinda made me understand where that might have come from :-(

So, my question is…for all you hunters out there…what is it about my horse that wouldn’t make her a "good hunter"? Is it her color, her conformation, etc??? Just curious what she might have meant by her comment!!


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## eventerwannabe (Jun 10, 2009)

Tha main thing that I see is that she doesnt pull her knees up, she is a little sloppy in the front end. 

I do believe that every horse can do every sport, some are better then others sure, but every horse can do it. I think little Sandie would so an AWESOME job in hunters with you. Some judges might not like you or your girl, but oh well, its about having fun. I think that you should just hold your head high and show them how its done!  Sandie and you are a good team and you guys are going to have a lot of fun. :]

Good luck!


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Any horse/pony can do hunters. Sandy has a nice jump (could be a bit more rounded, but the jumps are easy for her) From pictures I've seen, she has nice knees and is willing. Does she do flyng lead changes? If not, you might want to work on those. She might not win the hack, but if you get her relaxed and steady (which she seems to be) she'll do fine. Her color wil make her stand out without being blaringly obvious.

Basically IMHO, no, she will never be an 'AA' hunter. But at scooling, 'B' and even 'A' shows she will do just fine. Not the winner of every class, but I bet she will be in the ribbons for even the larger classes.

Oh, and OT but she reminds me SO much of a buckskin paint pony at our barn, they could almost be twins, lol. This pony has the same build and everything! This pony does great in o/f classes (even beats my horse in baby greens at times).


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## eventerwannabe (Jun 10, 2009)

I agree with above. *o.o*


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback!

eventerwannabe, I was referring more to her look than to her jumping style, sorry to confuse!  She and I both just started learning to jump about 4 months ago, so we have a long way to go there! I kinda meant more stuff that cannot be trained into her, that's what the trainer was telling me. I can train this horse most anything, but she was saying that even if she was top trained, she just doesn't have the breeding and "look" of a good hunter!

1dog3cats, she can't do flying lead changes yet, she's far from it! She was green broke when I got her 10 months ago so she's come a long way and still has a long way to go! ;-) I know that this year we probably won't place since we're starting from the ground up and have a lot to learn, esp. since we've only been doing dressage and eventing, so it's the other side of the road for us in a way and it'll be a lot of new stuff to learn...

I'll bet it'll be fun though!  We're at least going to give it a TRY no matter what anyone says! I just posted this because I had more of a question about why the trainer would say that even well trained, she couldn't be a very good hunter! :-(


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

Ugh- I hate it when people judge horses by their breed rather than the horse itself. I ride a TB/Mini cross and he does just as well in Hunters as horses who are the 'right' breed.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I got a lot of crap when I was even doing schooling hunter shows, so I can only imagine that there are going to be some breed racists at rated shows as well. 

You and Sandie are doing hunters for fun right? and for a tune-up through the winter? So just ignore them. That's what I do. haha


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Man, hunters in your area must be way different then around here. Yes, it's political, but no different then the dressage ring (or any judged sport) And yes you see mostly greys, bays, and chesnuts, but there are other breeds as well, they just often don't do as well because of their build, not that the judges are breed racists,

Personally I think hunters is a great place for young horses too. It gives them a chance to learn to canter simple courses, learn flying lead changes, keep an even pace, relax, and use the ends of the ring. Plus, it gives riders an extra incentive to ride well because it's judged


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> Man, hunters in your area must be way different then around here. Yes, it's political, but no different then the dressage ring (or any judged sport) And yes you see mostly greys, bays, and chesnuts, but there are other breeds as well, they just often don't do as well because of their build, not that the judges are breed racists,
> 
> Personally I think hunters is a great place for young horses too. It gives them a chance to learn to canter simple courses, learn flying lead changes, keep an even pace, relax, and use the ends of the ring. Plus, it gives riders an extra incentive to ride well because it's judged


Great post! Couldn't agree more! 

Yes, the more "traditional" hunter is going to be more TB or Warmblood-type (or Welsh if you're showing a pony) but if you have something that's a cute mover, jumps well, gets the correct distance, and has a flying change (when it's time you WILL need a lead change... ) there's a good chance you'll ribbon well. Not being "bred" to be a hunter doesn't mean anything. Very few horses I ride have been bred to be a hunter and we do ok. If i remember correctly (it's been a while since I've seen a video of Sandy) she wasn't a bad mover (not a hack winner but might ribbon, most likely would at a schooling show) and I've seen pics of her jumping well. Don't take what 1 person says personally! Go in the show ring, do your best, and prove her wrong!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I find it funny that WB's are ruling the sport of the Hunter World now - when Hunters derived from Fox Hutning, and in the world of Fox Hunting, you see breeds of all sorts and of all colors. 

Stop taking it so seriously - just go and have fun. Who cares about others, you're doing this just to keep you and Sandie in tune for the next Eventing Season.

Ride on and enjoy yourself.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Actually, in my area I don't see that many WB's. Yes, there are quite a few, but no more then you see in the dressage, jumping, and eventer world.

Mostly I see QH's (appendix mostly), TB's, and in the pony world, welshes. A WHOLE bunch of horsie mutts too, lol.

ANd as for the whole "not bred for it" crap, there are a LOT of OTTB, and they certainly were not bred for hunters, lol


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Oh I totally agree with the above posts, I was only wondering what it was that this trainer saw about Sandie that she didn't think was good enough? Ya see, when people say stuff like that to me, it reeeeally just makes me want to prove them wrong!! LOL ;-)

For example, when I first got Sandie, she was green broke, 150 lbs overweight, not a bit of muscle on her, all fat rolls lol...the vet actually made fun of her, calling her "fatty boom batty!" She asked me what I wanted to do with her, and I told her trail riding and maybe some dressage. Do you know she did the SAME thing to me as this trainer did with the hunters thing...she said "well low levels I hope because this horse could never be a top level dressage horse"...

We may not be top level but I think Sandie makes a beautiful dressage pony and with more practice she's only going to get even better! We'll have some fun doing some jumpers or hunters shows this winter, whatever's available...and then, like you said MIEventer, when summer gets back to the northeast again, we're hitting the x-c course! ;-)


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

anrz said:


> Ugh- I hate it when people judge horses by their breed rather than the horse itself.* I ride a TB/Mini cross* and he does just as well in Hunters as horses who are the 'right' breed.


Say wha?


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> Actually, in my area I don't see that many WB's. Yes, there are quite a few, but no more then you see in the dressage, jumping, and eventer world.
> 
> Mostly I see QH's (appendix mostly), TB's, and in the pony world, welshes. A WHOLE bunch of horsie mutts too, lol.
> 
> ANd as for the whole "not bred for it" crap, there are a LOT of OTTB, and they certainly were not bred for hunters, lol


Funny you would say that, because my friend who is a hunter has an OTTB and he's a beautiful mover!!! They're great in the hunter ring


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I couldn't agree more 1dog - totally. I have seen really ****ty bred TB's (but that's because the breeders from the track don't look at confo at all, they pick winning names from a piece of paper, and mix the two together* so we end up with poorly bred TB's.

I remember hearing in the Hunter World how Paints are not acceptable at all in the show ring....then one day I read a GM Column in a Practicle Horseman, where the rider he was critiquing was on a Paint. He went on about how much he loves paints and never marks them down when he judges H/J shows.

His first pony was a Paint and he went on about how much he loved that pony and how much that pony taught him - and then low and behold, the H/J world started to love Paints.

I had to laugh.


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

themacpac- yup . It's a really strange cross, but it works out well. He got the best of both breeds, in my opinion.


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## dreamrideredc (Apr 16, 2009)

i HATE it when people tell you what you can and cant do! you never know unless you try. i personally think you and sandie would do fabulous! you make a great team and you two are cute jumpers, i say go for it! =]


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks Dreamrider!


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## IrishRider (Aug 7, 2008)

I agree with everyone....do it anyway and have a good time. There will always be those people that think TB's and WB's need to be the only horses that exist. It's usually those people that will criticize you even if you have one of those breeds because you didn't send enough money on it. There is a woman at my barn that is like that. Her horse is $50k and lamer than crap. Meanwhile, she got schooled in the hunter ring by a free rescued cow pony that used to be abused. 

I digress. My point is, ignore those ignorant and snotty people because I have seen a huge shift over the years from people like that to more people like the people on this forum. They will always exist but more and more people are out there to ride and have fun and as long as you ride, I don't care what. Enjoy and kick some booty.


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

I competed for years on the hunter circuit on a free butchy appy pony that wasn't all that fancy and used to be a speed demon. We placed every class. Usually firsts. HA. In your face snobby hunters.

It was about having fun. We had a blast. And we kicked butt at it too. Schooling, B and A rated shows. MWUHAHAHA


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks irishrider...

And cougar, that's awesome!! And I literally laughed out loud when I read it too! ;-)


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for all the advice everyone...it seems like no one else really agrees with what this particular trainer said (at least, not on here in the replies so far), so I'm not sure that I'll ever know what she meant by "she just wasn't bred to be a hunter"...but I'd still like to know what everyone thinks about that comment as far as where they believe it might have come from? Is it something in particular about the way Sandie looks, her color, etc?? The only reason I'm really curious is because if it's something we could change then I'd love to know. And if it's not, then I'd love to know why so I can just accept it...I just need a more specific answer I guess!

I know this trainer didn't mean the comment in a malicious way, she just doesn't seem like that kind of person to me...really the only reason I wanted to post this is to get an idea of what she may have meant in particular, since when I asked her the answer I got was just a little vague.

She actually approached me the other day to tell me she gathered up some information for me about showing a large pony in hunters as an adult (since Sandie is 14.1hh) so it was really nice of her to look into that for me! I don't want anyone on here to get the wrong idea about the hunter world altogether...I know everyone has an opinion and to be honest, I did too at one point...but so far all the hunters I've met are pretty nice and I really appreciated the fact that this trainer went out of her way to look some info up for me, esp. when I'm not even one of her students


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Honestly she wasn't "bred" for it. But that doesn't mean anything, very few of the hunter's I've seen have been.

A horse bred for hunter jumper is just like a horse bred for dressage, WP, cow work or any other discipline. The parents, and probably their parents (and their parents) had the looks, movement and temperment for hunter and were bred to produce a foal with the looks, movement and temperment for hunters.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks...but can somebody explain to me what exactly the "looks, movement, and temperament for hunters" is? I honestly don't know, which is why I started the thread in the first place...I want to learn


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Looks- You want a horse with an alert expression, shiny mane and tail. You want an athletic looking horse with a refined head, good strong hindquarters and a solid build. Conformation is pretty universal, but down hill is not the best. Any colors can show, but grey, bay, and chesnut are the most "accepted"

Movement- flat kneed, big, floaty movement with horse reaching under itself and a good "flick" to the toes. The horse should be steady and even, not changing pace or lazy/fast. The neck should be carried at or slight above the withers with loose reins and the horse stretching down into the bit. The nose should be poking out, not vertical. The horse should look relaxed and happy, not bored or ****ed off. The horse should get correct leads and move smoothly into both upward and downward transitions. 

Jump- Tight even knees, relaxed and steady rythm. The horse should do smooth flying changes or land on the correct lead. The horse should use itself weel over the jump and not knock or clip rails (big no no). Using the corners and keeping straight lines is important

Temperment- alert, but relaxed and easy looking. You want the judge to say "I want to ride that horse". If people say your horse looks push button, easy and smooth, you and the horse are dping your job. Nothing should look rushed, but neither should it be slow, lazy, or have no impulsion

I know this isn't perfect, but I hope it helped a bit!


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

Knowing now that you are an adult and your horse is 14.1 in my opinion I would feel that the comment was derived from her being a pony. You can't compete in pony only classes, you have to compete in open divisions, and some of them have height restrictions so I can see where that would be a problem at a higher rating show. Also striding could be an issue in the Hunters, pony normally equals small stride (not always but most cases), if you can't make the stride you won't get the ribbon at a higher rated show. Which for most people who go to high rating shows expect/want to get a ribbon (not saying that is everyone's MO but it usually is). And even though I own a decent size horse, he has a ridiculously small stride and some open lines are issues for us period.

If she isn't an 8.5-10 mover that would also be an issue in the Hunters at an A, AA show, at least in the jog and U/S. 

Other then that I see no problem with doing Schooling, C and B rated shows. B rated shows are pretty relaxed and awesome (in cali at least I feel they are) my horse is a 7-8 mover and places decently well, also most of the fences are "easy" striding meaning I can open him to make them (with his small stride) and get the distance without feeling like a train without brakes. All 3 of those types of shows are cost effective and fun ways to get into Hunters. I wish you luck and tons of fun.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation 1dog, that is EXACTLY what I was looking for when I started this thread! 

And Void, thanks for the further clarification! 

It's so nice to be able to get additional outside opinions from forums like this, and I really appreciate the info everyone has given me  I think I understand better now where the "bred for it" comment came from, from 1dog's very detailed post! And it also makes me believe that we could be good at hunters, with some practice...Sandie still has a long way to go to be "push button" because she is still green, but that doesn't mean that she never will be, which is good to know!


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Probably the combination of her color and her height is what prompted the comment. I'm _not at all_ agreeing with the trainer's comment, but, pretty as Sandie is, a 14.1 hand buckskin isn't exactly the textbook picture of a hunter.

That being said, I do think that you guys would do very well. I haven't seen video of her moving, but the stills show pretty good conformation, and she has a really nice expression. And, in any discipline, if you can put in a good performance on a smaller or "nontraditional" colored horse, you're more likely to stick in the judge's mind (and the same goes for any mistakes...:shock.

I eventually switched to riding hunter classes in the small local shows in my area on my first horse, and he was the last possible thing from "bred to be a hunter." About the only thing he shared with that discription from 1dog3cats17rodents was the pretty head and bright chestnut coloring. He was 14.1 hands, 850 pounds of scrappy, sometimes gaited, part Morgan. We held our own, walked away with a few ribbons on days where his Foxtrotter gait stayed buried, but the shows _were_ tiny in the grand scheme of things. *The moral of the story is to get out there and have fun with your horse.* I know people who think that looking "good" is the end all-be all of horse showing, and they and their horses miss out on a lot of good experiences because they won't go to a show or enter a class where the horse "might look bad" or "won't be competitive." Or, worst yet "the horse might make _me_ look bad" :shock:. I don't know about anyone else, but I embarrass myself enough, I don't need help from my horse, ha ha.  I sometimes just find it irritating that anyone would either hold themself or their horse back because they don't perfectly fit the mold for what they want to do, or that anything short of the "perfect hunter" should be consigned forever to the land of pasture puffs and trail horses (they also fail to realize that good trail horses are about the best things money can buy...).

I say go for it. You and Sandie will knock 'em dead, I'm sure. Just smile and have fun!


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

Color really isn't an issue in my opinion. Actually in my opinion if your horse has the movement and the temperament its a bonus! At pony medal finals you'd always see some flashy colored and flashy moving ponies pinning well in the Hunters and Equitation! Actually last year at Medal finals when I was watching the ponies go I think the buckskin won all her pony hunter divisions.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks everyone, good to hear! I'm sure this particular trainer just meant that Sandie's not your stereotypical "hunter looking" horse, I just didn't know what WAS, which is why I wanted to ask on here to try to find out. You guys have all given me some great insight into what may have been meant by her comment to me.

Again, I know she wasn't saying it to be stuck up or snobby, I think she just didn't really explain "not bred for it" well enough for me to understand what was meant, until I started this thread. So thanks everybody! 

I get it now, and we're going to try our hand at it and have fun doing it!!!


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

the best way to learn about it is to read the rule book! it's actually not as dry as you might think! the specifications for all of the divisions and such can be a bit tedious but skip that part and read what the judges are looking for!

http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleBook/2009/15-HU.pdf


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks!


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