# What color do you think this stallion is?



## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

This is a stallion prospect i'm looking into breeding my mare to. His name is Emerald Fire, Mountain Pleasure Stallion. He's registered as dark chestnut. His owner says dark chestnut, looking more like bay with age. His sire was a chestnut, and his dam black. With out color testing, i'm not sure what color genes he carries, but i'v been told he's produced numerous bay foals, and recently some black foals out of bay mares. Let me hear your thoughts! Thank you!! 
























Here are examples of foals he's produced, unsure of dams colors though.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

He's definitely a red based horse, which means he is carrying no black himself since red horses require 2 copies of red to become red. The foals will have recieved the black from their dam's sides and since black is always dominant over red, it would only take one black gene to make the foals appear black or black based (which both bays and buckskins are)


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes. He is chestnut...e/e.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Do you think he carries sooty? Just judging by how dark he is


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Elizabeth Bowers said:


> Do you think he carries sooty? Just judging by how dark he is


He is liver chestnut. Sooty does not darken the coat evenly, as is seen in this stallion. It concentrates the darkening along the topline first and then works it's way downward from there (the reason most sooty buckskins you see have lighter underbellies).
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## Kyro (Apr 15, 2012)

I actually would guess that he might carry sooty. He's awfully similar to a liver chestnut but something about the way the color acts on/near his quarters..makes me think otherwise. A handsome guy, either way. What color is your mare?

Edit: No, I take it back. I wanted so bad to believe that he's something more than a chestnut but..he's still just a pretty chestnut :lol:


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## wakiya (Feb 7, 2009)

He could carry agouti which would account for the bay foals, but he's certainly red.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Definitely chestnut, definitely carrying sooty, could be carrying agouti, which would make it possible for a bay foal out of a black mare.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Kyro said:


> I actually would guess that he might carry sooty. He's awfully similar to a liver chestnut but something about the way the color acts on/near his quarters..makes me think otherwise. A handsome guy, either way. *What color is your mare?*
> 
> Edit: No, I take it back. I wanted so bad to believe that he's something more than a chestnut but..he's still just a pretty chestnut :lol:


She is a smoky cream, which is why i was after a stallion with color, and a few other genes in there, to help produce a colorful foal. 
Here is a more recent photos of Emerald, he will be 27.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

:? Eeh, it really looks like both his front feet are clubbed. I sure hope that's due to poor hoof care and isn't genetic :shock:.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

smrobs said:


> :? Eeh, it really looks like both his front feet are clubbed. I sure hope that's due to poor hoof care and isn't genetic :shock:.


I don't think it's genetic, could be the way they have his hooves trimmed/shod. Could it be genetic? I never knew if it was.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

It can be. Are you familiar with his sire/dam? If not, I would be looking at every one of his offspring I could to see if any of them were clubbed.

Even if they weren't, I'd be really hesitant to breed to him because of it. Not just because of the possible genetics. Even if it is for certain due to poor hoof care...how can any self respecting owner who actually advertises their stud to the public allow them to get to that point? Did they not care or did they just not know any better? Neither of those answers is very encouraging to me and both sort of scream "backyard stud owner who doesn't care what they breed to, so long as there's money involved".

If they don't know enough or care enough to make sure he's got a good farrier, how do I know they know/care enough to have him vet tested frequently to make sure he's clean and won't infect my mare with something?

Maybe I'm just being paranoid and I don't want you to feel like I'm pushing that paranoia on you, I just get a lot of red flags from anybody that advertises their stud to the public but can't be bothered to actually take good care of him. Even failure to get decent conformation pictures will turn me off to a stud because it makes me wonder if they're trying to hide something.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Clubbing can be very genetically passed on. I showed a stallion that passed clubs to a bunch of his offspring before it was discovered and he was gelded. Too bad for the mare owners, though. 

Those front feet are very worrisome, IMO.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

smrobs said:


> It can be. *Are you familiar with his sire/dam*? If not, I would be looking at every one of his offspring I could to see if any of them were clubbed.
> 
> Even if they weren't, I'd be really hesitant to breed to him because of it. Not just because of the possible genetics. _ Even if it is for certain due to poor hoof care...how can any self respecting owner who actually advertises their stud to the public allow them to get to that point?_ Did they not care or did they just not know any better? Neither of those answers is very encouraging to me and both sort of scream "backyard stud owner who doesn't care what they breed to, so long as there's money involved".
> 
> ...


As for Sire is Smith's Ginger (long dead now), dam was a black mare named Bumper. I have no photos of her.
I don't think they meant to on purpose, as far as i know he's barefoot. And commonly used as a carriage horse for proms, weddings, ect. 
Since he's a champion stallion, i'm sure they've got good farrier care, and vetting. I can always call and ask. 

Here's Smith's Ginger, the only photo i have.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

he is a very pretty chestnut color. and good catch Smrobs , he does look clubbed 
at 27 he may not be that fertile either. He looks to have ringbone which would not be a shocker at his age. Look at his foals, and ask to see pics of him at a younger age, and look at the angle of his hooves.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I wouldn't breed to him, simply because of his feet. It's not like it's a minor flaw. You do not want to take the chance that the foal will inherit it but if you are extremely interested and have no better propects, do as stevenson suggested and visit him for yourself and also try and get as much feedback on his current foals as you can.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

I'v been emailing his owner back n forth all day, waiting on his latest response. Probably won't get anything until tomorrow. He's a well known stallion, and has numerous foals, mostly fillies=mares, only a few colts of his still standing as stallions. I currently do not have any photos of them. I sure will ask though. 
There aren't very many stallions left with his bloodlines anymore, i'v been looking for about a year now. Slowly i think i'm making progress, maybe i'll find another similar to him. Like him though most of the good old blood stallions are up in age, and still producing, and some are retired and some aren't around any more, so chances are slipping away. I'll get as much info on health and everything as i can.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Here are examples of the shoes they use on these gaited horses in KY, and next is a pic of a stallion with his hooves in the same fashion, it's a KY tradition, they think that having their hooves like this makes them gait straight.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

While I think its worth checking into his feet, I'm not as concerned. I have seen many, many, many poorly trimmed/shod horses, including stallions standing at stud. Sometimes its the owner that feels they need to trim them a certain way, sometimes the farrier. I have seen so many horses trimmed with purposefully long toes and under run heels(popular on the track), and just as many where the owner believes the hoof needs to "sit up" more, so they cut back the toe and grow out the heels. I'm still surprised at how common this is in my area.

I would make sure he isn't clubbed, but over all I like him.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

He looks incredible for 27. If he's still sound and fit for showing...obviously something is "right" conformation wise.

His feet look like they have been trimmed like that. Not a genetic flaw. But that is just my guess...and I would look into it further. 

But seriously...27? He's in great shape.
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## wakiya (Feb 7, 2009)

I hope this works out for you


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> He looks incredible for 27.* If he's still sound and fit for showing...obviously something is "right" conformation wise.*
> 
> _His feet look like they have been trimmed like that._ Not a genetic flaw. But that is just my guess...and I would look into it further.
> 
> ...


I hope your lookin at the Chestnut stallion not the palomino LOL, the palomino is just a photo of an example. :lol:
Yeah he'll be 27, and thats what i said when i saw his photos! He's usually used in harness these days, and occasionally ridden. 
That's what i thought, since i'd seen many stallions with hooves the same way, and they're sound and still showing.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

wakiya said:


> I hope this works out for you


Me too!!


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Elizabeth Bowers said:


> I hope your lookin at the Chestnut stallion not the palomino LOL, the palomino is just a photo of an example. :lol:
> Yeah he'll be 27, and thats what i said when i saw his photos! He's usually used in harness these days, and occasionally ridden.
> That's what i thought, since i'd seen many stallions with hooves the same way, and they're sound and still showing.


Yes, I am talking about the chestnut.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

Here's the most recent pic of him


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