# Some help with driving, well equipment adjustment



## churumbeque

A side view would be nice to give better advice nut the tiops of the shafts should be at the point of shouder and should not hit them in the neck. If you move the mule up that will take out some slack in the traces but your traces do not look to be running back properly. They looked like they may be going through the breeching ring as they shouldn't be coming off the hip like that but I can't see it from that picture.


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## Clayton Taffy

I love the awwww factor!!

Your question about traces is a complicated one.
The traces, breeching and hold back straps are so entwined together, that you can't adjust one without affecting the other.
I find that this is the most difficult area to get correct for beginning drivers, and actually long time drivers too.
Whenever I hitch a new horse or use a new harness or cart it takes a while to get it just right, often times driving a while before making yet more adjustments.
I am on my way to feed right now and I will tackle this inquirery more in depth after dinner.

Long story short though your traces and breast collar should be doing the pulling.
Your shafts are too long if they are poking your equine in the neck, you can try to move your donket further forward in the shafts. This should be corrected swiftly so your donkey does not get into the habbit of counter bending to avoid being poked.


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## Clayton Taffy

When the cart is pushed backward so that the traces are tight (in draught) the shaft tips should be no farther forward than the point of the shoulder. This keeps the lines from getting caught and prevents the horse being poked in the neck.

The shafts should be level, and the tugs (the loops that hold the shafts) should be hanging straight down from the saddle, perpendicular to the ground. The traces should pass between the two belly bands, but not inside the tugs, on the way back to the single tree.

With the cart still pushed back, you can hook up the breeching. The breeching should be just tight enough to put a fist between the breeching and the horse’s rump. So that when you are finished hitching the cart only rolls about 4-5” between the draught of the breast collar and the breeching. This adjustment is what keeps the traces from becoming too loose.

This photo is the best I could find, you can see that the traces are in draught but the breeching is not droopy or loose at all. You can see that the shaft tips are behind the point of the shoulder and the traces are run between the two belly bands. 

The shafts are not level, I feel there is some leeway for this rule because your vehicle might have to fit different horses, so a little pointing up I feel is Okay, although never pointing down. If and when I get a new cart for this horse I would make sure the shafts are level though.


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## Clayton Taffy

Sorry HF won't let me upload a photo for some reason, will try later.


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## SlideStop

Ok, that makes sense. When I set the cart back the traces will become thighter. Idk whats under the ball of duct tape, so this should be interesting. Maybe I'll get black duct tape when.I retape whatever is under there to take away from the ghetto-ness of the cart.

Both the donks are about the same so (i would say maybe a two inch difference from the Jenny and Jack/john). 

The traces should go on the inside of the girth? Right against their skin?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

There should be two "Girths" an inner that holsd the saddle on and an outer that holds the shafts down. The traces should go between the two girths, it helps to keep the traces in the correct place and looks neater.

If you only have one girth that holds the saddle on the trace goes on the outside of this girth.

Where is the duck tape on the cart/ Harness?


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## SlideStop

Oh ok they go in between! That makes more sense!

The is a duct tape ball I have to slide the tugs over on the shafts, or at least that's what I was told..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clippityclop

So the duct tape ball is there to keep the tugs from sliding around? LOL! Sounds similar to my old easy entry cart....I've loved and used that thing to death...it fits in that category of "101 uses for bailing twine"...

If the balance (pull) is just right from the traces - girth - tugs then they shouldn't have a desire to wander up and down the shafts. A side pic of your donkey(s) harnessed up would be a big help...sometimes even the way the breeching is attached can affect the balance...

As far as where to run the traces thru (girth), I agree that they should run between, but only if the traces can still run a straight line back to the single tree and when under pressure are not rubbing hard agains the overgirth (tie down part of the girth). Otherwise, I'd put them on the outside (happens alot with horses/ponies/donkies in shafts that are an inch or so too wide). 

A couple of my carts had little rings welded under the shafts where you could loop the ties of the girth thru (and around the shafts once) before buckling them down - this was what helped the tugs from traveling up and down the shaft, too. But then again, once I figured out the balance of the whole harness, then the tugs wouldn't travel. This is what I think you are talking about as far as the duct tape ball goes...if I am way off, sorry...LOL!!!


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## SlideStop

Yeah, I will get a side photo for sure. That was just one I had on my phone. 

The cart is pretty... Ghetto. Lol. The balls are on the shafts and I was told to put the balls through the tugs. Maybe they were put on before someone invested in breeching? That might make sense as to why the shafts are hitting them in the neck, why there is a huge wad of duct tape the cart and why the traces seem long!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clippityclop

Could be - get an exacto and cut it all off then reharness and walk them around a bit...any better or worse? You can always get more duct tape and put it back...duct tape comes in some really awesome ghetto colors nowadays - camo, hot pink - leopard...HAHAHA!:clap:

By they way, your donkey is adorable. I hope one day to own a mule. A gaited mule, in fact ..one I can ride and drive.


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## SlideStop

Hah!! I would LOVE a mule too. They are on my bucket list for sure. 

So the duct tape pretty much as no use? I don't need anything to put through the tugs?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## churumbeque

SlideStop said:


> Hah!! I would LOVE a mule too. They are on my bucket list for sure.
> 
> So the duct tape pretty much as no use? I don't need anything to put through the tugs?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think if you get everything adjusted correctly the duct tape should not be used.


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## clippityclop

I concur (LOL) - the ductape is just a ******* way of getting the tugs to keep from sliding - if the rest of the harness fits and is secured correctly, you won't need it (or anything) for that matter. 

I also saw zebra and polka dot ductape just a bit ago at walmart...LLOL!! the choices are endless....hehee!


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## SlideStop

Hah! Maybe ill get zebra to cover up the hole in the seat of the cart  ... This cart has seen better days for sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop

I'm thinking the shafts need to go back a litttttle more still though its not hitting him in the neck anymore. 

.... I also sprayed the cart black with rust-o-lium (how ever its spelled). It looks good now, not like a rust bucket!


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## churumbeque

Did you get rid of the duct tape?


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## SlideStop

The duct tape is gone!  I loosed up the clips for the breeching and the traces. I think they could be loosened up.a little more.


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## churumbeque

The only thing that looks obvious to me is that your saddle could go back a bit. Looks to be on the withers and it should be further back maybe 4 inches or so.


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## SlideStop

I thought the same, but the are pretty mutton withered. It doesn't look like that in the photo but I think it might be the angle and the fact his leg is cocked. I'm always careful to set it back more because originally it was to far forward.

Also, as you can see, he is obese. When I set the saddle back and pull up the girth it just slides forward right into their elbows. This guy's girth goes right from armpits to belly which is frustrating! They were getting girth sores pretty bad, hence the girth covers (aka, halter crown fleeces Haha!).

I'll definitely try to move it back though. It's supposed to be more like at the base of the wither, right?


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## Clayton Taffy

He is darling!!

I would move the shafts back a bit, you have another adjustment on your traces. Breeching and breast collar look good. And like said move the saddle back. 
There are so many adjustments on a harness sometimes it is trial and error untill you get it adjusted the correctly. 

I think it looks over all really good!


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## clippityclop

Yes - I think the saddle should sit behind the wither where it can settle just on the back. I like my breeching to have more play in it so that it only gets tight if we are going downhill - but that's my preference.

Man that is the cutest darn thing ever!

Oh and I used rustoleum all over my metal easy entry at least once every couple of years - that stuff works great!


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## Clayton Taffy

clippityclop said:


> Yes - I like my breeching to have more play in it so that it only gets tight if we are going downhill - but that's my preference.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> My preferance is my breeching with very little play in it, about 4 inches.
> I hate a horse that is sloppy in the shafts.


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## smrobs

Only thing I can really contribute to the conversation (and only then because slidestop is a new driver) is that you never want to let the breeching hang too low below the point of the buttocks. With little donkeys like that on relatively flat ground, you'd probably never have a problem, but if you get involved with work horses, a too-low breeching can take their back legs out from under them when bracing a heavy load going downhill.

So many pictures on the internet have the breeching adjusted to be level or slightly below the stifle, but that's just wrong on 99% of horses (excluding those with really funky conformation). You'rs looks good and I certainly wouldn't let it down any more.

Oh, and the donkey is utterly adorable! Now you just need a tongued wagon and a set of team harness and you could drive them together .


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## SlideStop

Taffy Clayton said:


> clippityclop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes - I like my breeching to have more play in it so that it only gets tight if we are going downhill - but that's my preference.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> My preferance is my breeching with very little play in it, about 4 inches.
> I hate a horse that is sloppy in the shafts.
> 
> 
> 
> The breeching isn't to tight or to loose, I don't think. It activates (for lack of a better term) as soon we slow down or go down a tiny little hill. Does it look to loose?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


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## SlideStop

Smrobs, I've been looking all over for an inexpensive one! They are just so darn expensive. It just makes more sense, especially because they are attached at the hip! Then they could also use take more riders at any events we have. Their original purpose was teaching driving lessons and to give "donkey rides" to. The woman who was driving them made it seem like you needed a PhD in rocket science to drive. A little common sense and lots of ground driving experience has taken me a LONG way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

I don't think the breeching is too loose, Looks great from the photo. Of course once you start driving only you can tell. I like mine to touch the rump snugly, (no indentation) at the extended trot. It also looks in the proper position, neither too high or to low. 

*I can't wait to see him in action.*

I will say this though, I know this photo is to show the harness placement, but for any new, (or older) drivers out there.
One of the biggest and most enforced rules in the American Driving Society and any driving club is; 

Never remove the bridle while the animal is hooked to the cart. 

Infraction of this rule will get you immediatly disqualified from any event and asked to leave. It is a big safty rule.


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## GreySorrel

SlideStop said:


> Smrobs, I've been looking all over for an inexpensive one! They are just so darn expensive. It just makes more sense, especially because they are attached at the hip! Then they could also use take more riders at any events we have. Their original purpose was teaching driving lessons and to give "donkey rides" to. The woman who was driving them made it seem like you needed a PhD in rocket science to drive. *A little common sense and lots of ground driving experience has taken me a LONG way*.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You have gotten some great common sense from several of the posters, please take it to heart and listen. They are experienced drivers and Taffy was spot on when she said that you will be immediately disqualified if you take a bridle off prior to taking the animal off of whatever your driving them with. Our driving club enforces this rule even at our pleasure driving days on estates here.

The above bolded comment I would like to comment on. I drive two 17.2H Percheron mares. While I know your very cute mule is not near as tall or heavy as my team is, please reconsider your mind set. Until you have had a oh sh*t accident or been on that accident, you have no fear. I have a very healthy fear of what could or may or will happen when I drive and am always paying attention, I am always watchful to things around me and I never take chances or do gigs that may put myself or my team in danger.

I also NEVER even considered doing public events where I had other people on my wagon till I had time and experience under my belt. About 9 and a half years of driving single and then almost a full year with a team, and that was with show experience as well. When you start giving rides to the general public, if ANYTHING should go wrong, someone gets hurt, falls down, your animal suddenly balks or backs up and someone gets even a scratch, I have seen people sue for little minor things. Driving is a dangerous sport, more so I personally think than riding because you not only have yourself and the animal to consider but also the cart or wagon and those on it. The accidents often times aren't minor.....

Please, just rethink what you feel, get a lot more experience under your belt and it isn't just a little common sense and lots of ground driving that will keep you safe. Also, consider getting a good insurance to cover you if you do do public driving events or have anyone in your vehicle. Were covered for quite a bit of money and we renew faithfully every year.


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## SlideStop

I was actually wondering about that. Originally I was tacking and bridleing then taking them outside, tying them with their halters on or over the neck and then hitching the cart. It got to be a lot of "stuff" they wiggled around to much with it over their neck and I felt bad for leaving the halters on while the bridle was over it. Also, the halters don't fit over the bridle. I also noticed that they fidget WAY more once their bridles go on. It's hard to find an extra hand to hold them so this has been my best solution. They tie like little rocks! I wouldnt do it if I thought they would struggle. Also they. Hitched and unhitched at that same pole everytime, which seems to relax them. And they also don't try to walk off. Also, less people seem to make them less fidgety. 

I've just found this works for me... Any better ideas?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GreySorrel

I have harnessed my mare Smoke, tied to the trailer, then hitched her myself, all with her bridle and harness on, talking the whole time so she knew where I was. Same thing when I got back, I tied her up then took the cart off, moved it out of the way, then took the bridle off, put her halter on, then went from there, I just did the opposite of what I began doing. 

You can't get one person to head them while you hitch up?


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## churumbeque

GreySorrel said:


> I have harnessed my mare Smoke, tied to the trailer, then hitched her myself, all with her bridle and harness on, talking the whole time so she knew where I was. Same thing when I got back, I tied her up then took the cart off, moved it out of the way, then took the bridle off, put her halter on, then went from there, I just did the opposite of what I began doing.
> 
> You can't get one person to head them while you hitch up?


 I am single and keep my horses at home so no I never have a header but my horse has been taught to stand very still while I put to the cart and I keep the reins in my hands at all times.


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## GreySorrel

Ah thank you C...I too have my driving lines in my hand at all times too....same with the team...even if someone is helping me with the team to hitch them, my lines are in my hand.


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## SlideStop

Grey, I don't consider myself an expert by ANY means. Especially off common sense and ground driving. I actually ground drive for hippotherapy, so I'm pretty used to the huge sense of responsibility. They aren't half dead either. 

They aren't going off the property to the "general public". Not fairs or anything like that. It would be for our program only. We have a Halloween fest, host horse shows, an Easter egg hunt, etc that we would use them for. I'm not pushing it for next week, next month or any time soon. 

I've been practicing tight turns. They are quiet by the road and when the big horses run past them in the paddocks. Drills, leaf blowers, cars, etc. Their whoa is solid, we practice that everyday. They are pretty solid over all! That being said I know that you could have the quietest, safest, slowest, horse with a super experienced driver and accidents will still happen. I just don't predict any accidents happening from disobedience. 

Typically I don't have an extra hand. I drive them before or after lessons. Usually everyone is busy or leading/sidewalking. Also they toss their heads a bunch and push past the leader. They stand quiet tied. If I have an extra hand I'll have someone hold them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

SlideStop said:


> I actually ground drive for hippotherapy, so I'm pretty used to the huge sense of responsibility.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you work at a theraputic riding center??

I am thinking of getting my driving instructor certification through PATH. Do you have any certified drivers in your area?
I am trying to find out if this is something I can make a late career out of doing.


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## SlideStop

Taffy Clayton said:


> Do you work at a theraputic riding center??
> 
> I am thinking of getting my driving instructor certification through PATH. Do you have any certified drivers in your area?
> I am trying to find out if this is something I can make a late career out of doing.


Yes, I work at one. To me that certication is just a piece of paper. It doesnt really train you for it, just makes sure you can do everything safely. It would be useful as far as finding a job, but beyond that my feeling is its useless. They also promote group lessons, which I feel is a money making scheme in terms of TR. It would be more beneficial start volunteering at a TR barn and work your way up and learn the ropes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop

As a career its fun. I don't think there are any drivers around here, therapeutic or not. Unless your a hunter/jumper or a gymkhana rider there isn't a ton of popularity for driving and other sports... Though you never know, maybe I could be the first!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

Yes, but unfortunatly, you can't get a paying job without that certification. I am within 60 min of 5 certified riding centers. None of which offer driving, they would like to but if they get a draft of any kind they use it for hippotherapy not driving. I would like to get my own horse set up and go to them, sort of a mobile unit.


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## clippityclop

Taffy Clayton said:


> clippityclop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes - I like my breeching to have more play in it so that it only gets tight if we are going downhill - but that's my preference.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> My preferance is my breeching with very little play in it, about 4 inches.
> I hate a horse that is sloppy in the shafts.
> 
> 
> 
> YES that is about perfect. Not snug standing still, but not flapping in the wind either.
Click to expand...


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## clippityclop

I have experience with being disqualified at a driving show! My very first show I might add....

I tied my horse to a rail with his halter on, hitched him up and left the bridle on the fence for last - went to the bathroom (can't fight mother nature) came back and the judge was waiting for me and asked what class I was in and I told him and he said don't bother going in!

I had been driving for YEARS prior to that show - hitched up harness and hames, easy entry carts - buggies - from percherons to arabians and all of my red neck skill didn't mean squat at a horse show. So I agree with you when you say you don't need a PHD to learn to drive but you do have to play by the rules if you show.

For what it's worth, I am the only pair of hands I have when hitching up as well. I still do the bridle last and I also drive with an open bridle when I drive on the road out here with 4 wheelers, bikes, motorcycles and numerous other things that come out for an evening stroll in the country side. You also have to tack up with the full headstall, too when you show. 

I lead my horse to the middle of the driveway, drop his halter rope on the ground and I tell him to stay. I pull up the cart, hitch him up, but on the bridle, climb in the back and he doesn't move until I ask him to walk on. He is my only driving pony right now (my other two are buried in my garden-the best horses in the world) but all three I trained to be patient and wait so that I could do it all by myself. I'm the only driver in my family- so this system works for me. I've been doing it for over 20 years.


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## Clayton Taffy

Slide stop this is a halter I was thinking about getting. You can put the bridle on over this halter and then take the halter off.

Economy Halter with Buckle Noseband


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## Clayton Taffy

Being disqualified is no fun. 

I met someone reciently that got disqualified for wearing shorts.

A friend of mine got DQ for going in the out gate at the start of the marathon.

At the last CDE someone got DQ for missing a gate in a hazzard.


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## clippityclop

Taffy Clayton said:


> Being disqualified is no fun.
> 
> I met someone reciently that got disqualified for wearing shorts.
> 
> A friend of mine got DQ for going in the out gate at the start of the marathon.
> 
> At the last CDE someone got DQ for missing a gate in a hazzard.


 
It wasn't fun for me - in fact it was not only embarassing (I had no clue I had done anything wrong) but it was kind of crushing. I had been persuaded to go by some friends in our driving club here and we had been practicing and spending time driving together and such and no one mentioned a thing to me about something that simple (or even a 'hey, you might want to read over the driving rules)- I had even made one of them a new driving apron (suitability pattern - those are so neat!). It took me a couple of years before I tried again.

Once I had a trace come off - don't ask me how or why - I have no clue - but it was dragging, and they wouldn't let me get out of my cart to fix it, nor would they allow anyone else to put it back on my single tree. ???? They had someone lead my horse out of the arena by the bridle, trace dragging :-( and then left me alone to get out, manage my horse and fix it myself. 

I've seen worse happen to friends...I've seen some very unprepared and green horses go in there and rear up and get nasty...

but I've also had a million more good times than bad --- I really enjoy driving. I would love to see some cross country/marathon driving in real life someday. I wouldn't mind hanging out for a day with Chester Webber and watching his horses in action.


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## Clayton Taffy

clippityclop said:


> It wasn't fun for me - in fact it was not only embarassing (I had no clue I had done anything wrong) but it was kind of crushing. I had been persuaded to go by some friends in our driving club here and we had been practicing and spending time driving together and such and no one mentioned a thing to me about something that simple (or even a 'hey, you might want to read over the driving rules)- I had even made one of them a new driving apron (suitability pattern - those are so neat!). It took me a couple of years before I tried again.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> That is disheartning. Do you still make driving aprons?


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## clippityclop

Well, I'll tell you that if I was new to driving and didn't already have my confidence built up in my own abilities, that event would have marred me for life and I don't think I would have ever gone into the driving world again. I think there would have been better ways to make their point (it was the same judge both times, two different shows).

Regarding aprons, I made that one years ago and don't have the pattern for it. I do love to sew, but I am so limited on time. Do you sew?? I can point you to the pattern...here:

Sidesaddle apron, Driving apron, and Riding Skirt Pattern

it isn't hard, just time consuming. The lady in the picture has a tan one - I think black fabric looks best, especially if you wear black boots.


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## Clayton Taffy

Thanks for the link.

I can go forward and backward sewing, and have never used a pattern.
I have always wanted to learn. I am sending the pattern to my sister, she is a sewing machine.

I need a new one, my favorite went to the dry cleaner and never came back home.


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## clippityclop

Oh no!!!!:shock:

Have your name embroidered on a tag and sewn into a seam...LOL! I've done that a few times with chaps and riding pants. Suitability has great patterns for vests, too that can look quite DASHING with a matching wool hat...

sorry off topic! :lol:


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## Clayton Taffy

Sorry Slidestop, Back to topic.

I can't wait to see your little guy hitched up and on the move!!


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## SlideStop

Taffy Clayton said:


> Slide stop this is a halter I was thinking about getting. You can put the bridle on over this halter and then take the halter off.
> 
> Economy Halter with Buckle Noseband


That is EXACTLY what I need. I'm going to look into getting one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Endiku

Funny Slidestop- you seem to have the exact same situation as I do xD working at a therapeudic center and wanting to use your little team for a Halloween Festival/the kids already there. We have a 'pumpkin patch festival' every year and I have a string of four miniature horses that I offer rides on during that time, and its a lot of fun. Up until this year I only had two, but I've trained two myself this spring and plan to add them to the program this year if all goes well. Maybe this is a sign that I need a donkey to drive as well 

Your little donkey is absolutely adorable, and I'm sure he'll look even better once he's slimmed up a bit!


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## SlideStop

Taffy Clayton said:


> Yes, but unfortunatly, you can't get a paying job without that certification. I am within 60 min of 5 certified riding centers. None of which offer driving, they would like to but if they get a draft of any kind they use it for hippotherapy not driving. I would like to get my own horse set up and go to them, sort of a mobile unit.


Yeah, the certificate is really only useful for hiring like I said. It really only says you can walk, trot, and canter without difficulty. You know to check the tack and close the gate behind you. Good TR skill comes from knowing about the disability and how the horse has positive effects on it. Knowing what works and what doesn't. 

I think you could probably do well for yourself if you traveled to all 5 places with your own team and maybe offer clinics and stuff! That wouod be cool!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## michaelvanessa

*driveing harness*



SlideStop said:


> I just started driving the mini donkies at my barn after their 2 year break (long story). They each have their own harnesses that are adjusted to them and "directions" about their commands, trace and bridle adjustment from a previous owner. They have been behind the cart about 4 times now for short amounts of time. They got right back into it like they didn't miss a day! They also seem to really enjoy it and take their jobs seriously. They DON'T bray for each other when in tack and their attitudes change when their harnesses go on. Although I've done TONS of ground driving, I've never actually sat in a cart and driven. I know where all the stuff goes but there is two things I'm not sure of.
> 
> 1) the traces... Should they be taught? Because the setting it says to have them seems loose to me. The pulling should be coming from the traces and not the surcingle and shafts, right?
> 2) when making sharp turns the shafts bump them in the neck. Although I've been using it on the setting it was on my thought is that they need to be lowered and set back a little bit.
> 
> Also, I would love to get a book on driving, from harness adjustment, to parts of the tack, to how to break them to drive. I actually find driving quite relaxing!
> 
> Any other tips and advice is welcome!!
> 
> Many, many thanks!!
> 
> Some Awww factor..


 hiya its great to see your donkeys driveing i have harness diagrams in my albums serch in them all i know there there.
your traces should be slightley taute from the pig tails on the swingletree and your tugs should rest at the tug stops and your breeching strap goes through the d and around the shaft and trace and back to the buckle.
if the shafts are diging in to the donkeys neck set the donkey slightley foward or bend the tips out a little if you need any more help id be glad to many thanks michael.


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## churumbeque

clippityclop said:


> I have experience with being disqualified at a driving show! My very first show I might add....
> 
> I tied my horse to a rail with his halter on, hitched him up and left the bridle on the fence for last - went to the bathroom (can't fight mother nature) came back and the judge was waiting for me and asked what class I was in and I told him and he said don't bother going in!
> 
> I had been driving for YEARS prior to that show - hitched up harness and hames, easy entry carts - buggies - from percherons to arabians and all of my red neck skill didn't mean squat at a horse show. So I agree with you when you say you don't need a PHD to learn to drive but you do have to play by the rules if you show.
> 
> For what it's worth, I am the only pair of hands I have when hitching up as well. I still do the bridle last and I also drive with an open bridle when I drive on the road out here with 4 wheelers, bikes, motorcycles and numerous other things that come out for an evening stroll in the country side. You also have to tack up with the full headstall, too when you show.
> 
> *I lead my horse to the middle of the driveway, drop his halter rope on the ground and I tell him to stay. I pull up the cart, hitch him up, but on the bridle, climb in the back and he doesn't move until I ask him to walk on. He is my only driving pony right now (my other two are buried in my garden-the best horses in the world) but all three I trained to be patient and wait so that I could do it all by myself. I'm the only driver in my family- so this system works for me. I've been doing it for over 20 years.*


 So why not put the bridle on, hold the reins and hitch up? If he stands so well that should be easy. I think most people that bridle last are tying the horse to hitch.


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## SlideStop

I had to tighten the breeching part of the way through my ride since they were sliding. This is the grey donks girlfriend Venus. 

Who couldn't love this face!! This guy is JJ









And we have been driving in the woods!


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## SlideStop

Thanks Michaelvanessa! Those where really helpful. Could you recommend any good books to pick up about driving and such?


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## GreySorrel

The bit in your donkey's mouth looks a bit big for him, is that a smaller bit? Also, I was taught rule of thumb on your crupper, if it is one hole from the top on the left, it should be the same on the right, yours is all the way up on the right, but one down on the left. Your breeching could come down about an inch or so, it is still a smidge too far up. Also, he seems like a very laid back easy going donkey, have you tried driving him direct? I noticed your lines are down a hole on his bit, a bit of "stop" if you will for a wee thing like him. Even driving my team, I very rarely, have ever had to drive anything other than direct. Just food for thought.


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## Clayton Taffy

Oh my how cute!! I want one now.

I like where your breeching is, the point of his butt is a good 6 inches above the breeching, any lower and you might push his legs out from underneith him.

A helpfull hint might also be, when you take the holdback staps through the holdback loops, under the shafts. do your wraps around the shafts toward the front of the horse, not towards the back. That will give you more room for the breeching to work better. Clear as Mud huh!


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## SlideStop

GreySorrel said:


> The bit in your donkey's mouth looks a bit big for him, is that a smaller bit? Also, I was taught rule of thumb on your crupper, if it is one hole from the top on the left, it should be the same on the right, yours is all the way up on the right, but one down on the left. Your breeching could come down about an inch or so, it is still a smidge too far up. Also, he seems like a very laid back easy going donkey, have you tried driving him direct? I noticed your lines are down a hole on his bit, a bit of "stop" if you will for a wee thing like him. Even driving my team, I very rarely, have ever had to drive anything other than direct. Just food for thought.


Venus's (the brown one) directions said that she drives with the reins on the last one. I drove her one time like that and I thought this is ridiculous! I moved it up to the middle one. She is pretty sneaky, like she was try to pull you out by the gate. Maybe its because she isn't in shape yet that she hasn't shown why she needed it on that ring... Or that person was an idiot. I don't make the curb strap tight so it takes a little while for the bit to engage. I also ride western so I'm always aware of how hard I'm pulling and that its being multiplied by 2, 3, or 4 times. Now that I know more about them moving the reins up is on my list of things to do. The bits do fit them but I think their noses are small and makes the bit look huge. There is no way these bits would ever fit a small pony even.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop

Taffy Clayton said:


> Oh my how cute!! I want one now.
> 
> I like where your breeching is, the point of his butt is a good 6 inches above the breeching, any lower and you might push his legs out from underneith him.
> 
> A helpfull hint might also be, when you take the holdback staps through the holdback loops, under the shafts. do your wraps around the shafts toward the front of the horse, not towards the back. That will give you more room for the breeching to work better. Clear as Mud huh!


Hah! I was trying to put them on after I sprayed the cart and I was like waittttt this doesn't seem right! I want to get something I don't need to wrap around 100 times. Maybe a nylon spur strap? Or do they sell them shorter? Or do just wrap it 100 times and deal with it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

SlideStop said:


> Hah! I was trying to put them on after I sprayed the cart and I was like waittttt this doesn't seem right! I want to get something I don't need to wrap around 100 times. Maybe a nylon spur strap? Or do they sell them shorter? Or do just wrap it 100 times and deal with it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would not use any thing else. The hold back staps should have double leather where it attaches to the breeching, or the snap that attaches to the breeching. You need that extra leather as it is a highly important stress point. Actually you should not use snaps for the same reason, Snaps can break easily. I do not know if they make them shorter, I guess you could cut a little length off the straps. With metal shafts you have this problem, wooden shafts being thicker it is not as bad.


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## churumbeque

I am with Taffy on not lowering the breeching. I am attaching a photo so you can see how the rear straps are attached. IOf mine were longer I could have wrapped them a time or 2 more and then you slip the strap under the wrap and go back to the buckle. Usually on a small equine you use a 2 slot bit and that is why it looks so big.


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## SlideStop

Thanks Churumbeque! 

Here's a question. What's the part that the traces attach to? It moves back and fourth with their motion...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## churumbeque

SlideStop said:


> Thanks Churumbeque!
> 
> Here's a question. What's the part that the traces attach to? It moves back and fourth with their motion...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


the single tree


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## SlideStop

Ok, so someone had two nylon straps around each end the single tree limiting the movement of it. Was there a point to this or is it like the ill placed duct tape on the shafts?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GreySorrel

Slidestop...why don't you go to either Ebay or Amazon and look up driving books and invest in a few and read up on what all those things and do dads are that your using to drive with? I may have a few driving books too that I have two of, I can look and if you want them, can send them to you. Each piece of a harness is for something, each piece of the cart has a name and a purpose as well, to know what each one does independently and together helps you learn and be a better driver and know what your doing. You may have the driving basics down but I strongly urge you to gain more knowledge of what tools your using to drive i.e. the cart and harness.


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## SlideStop

GreySorrel said:


> Slidestop...why don't you go to either Ebay or Amazon and look up driving books and invest in a few and read up on what all those things and do dads are that your using to drive with? I may have a few driving books too that I have two of, I can look and if you want them, can send them to you. Each piece of a harness is for something, each piece of the cart has a name and a purpose as well, to know what each one does independently and together helps you learn and be a better driver and know what your doing. You may have the driving basics down but I strongly urge you to gain more knowledge of what tools your using to drive i.e. the cart and harness.


I ask for recommendations in my original post, thanks for your suggestion though. 

I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm pretty aware of what everything does as far as searing, breaking, pulling, etc are concerned. I don't need an nationally ranked driver to tell me that "the thing the traces are attached to" (which I now know is called a singletree) is where they pull from and increases the range of motion and comfort of the animal. Obviously the animal would probably be pretty uncomfortable pulling against a fixed object. Will a book tell me why someone attached little nylon straps to the singletree? Well I can't be sure but I don't think it would tell me why someone also put a huge duct tape balls on the shafts of the cart for the tugs to go through either. After all, my boss told me everything was already set up, adjusted and ready to go. At least I've had half a brain to question what I see. 

I also want to sat a huge THANK YOU to everyone for all your advice! I hope I'm not to much of a bother and don't make myself seem to stupid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## charming

I think your have good questions, slidestop. How else are you to know, if you don't ask? Books are not the be-all, end-all and many are outdated, as far as I'm concerned.. the internet is a great resource, as long as you take a grain of salt with most posts!

I have a question that will probably get me told to buy books also, but I will ask it anyway, because it will be a while before I am either to order books online & recieve them, or make it to the city to buy books.

How does one properly wrap the breeching strap around the shaft? Is there a method to it?

Thanks in advance!


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## Clayton Taffy

SlideStop said:


> I ask for recommendations in my original post, thanks for your suggestion though.
> 
> I'm certainly not an expert, but I'm pretty aware of what everything does as far as searing, breaking, pulling, etc are concerned. I don't need an nationally ranked driver to tell me that "the thing the traces are attached to" (which I now know is called a singletree) is where they pull from and increases the range of motion and comfort of the animal. Obviously the animal would probably be pretty uncomfortable pulling against a fixed object. Will a book tell me why someone attached little nylon straps to the singletree? Well I can't be sure but I don't think it would tell me why someone also put a huge duct tape balls on the shafts of the cart for the tugs to go through either. After all, my boss told me everything was already set up, adjusted and ready to go. At least I've had half a brain to question what I see.
> 
> I also want to sat a huge THANK YOU to everyone for all your advice! I hope I'm not to much of a bother and don't make myself seem to stupid.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The fixed leather straps arround the single tree and the crossbar are supposed to be there. Do not have a clue what they are called. As a matter of fact I just bought a pair for my Meadowbrook cart I just refinished, you should have seen me trying to explain to the Amish man what I was talking about, I eventually went out to his buggy and showed him what I wanted.

And I just read two books on driving cover to cover and they did not mention theese straps.

I think you are doing great and asking good questions. Harnessing up can be daunting, and there is a lot of stuff you just can't get from books.
The two books I just read were:

Driving A Harness Horse by Sallie Walrond
Carriage Driving by Heike Bean and Sara Blanchard

I did like them and learned some new stuff too.

Keep on asking your Questions


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## Clayton Taffy

charming said:


> I think your have good questions, slidestop. How else are you to know, if you don't ask? Books are not the be-all, end-all and many are outdated, as far as I'm concerned.. the internet is a great resource, as long as you take a grain of salt with most posts!
> 
> I have a question that will probably get me told to buy books also, but I will ask it anyway, because it will be a while before I am either to order books online & recieve them, or make it to the city to buy books.
> 
> How does one properly wrap the breeching strap around the shaft? Is there a method to it?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


There is a way to do it. I looked for photos yesterday to demonstrate it, but found none, I will try and take some to show in detail how to do it.
I found this was the hardest adjustment to get on a harness, once you get this everything else is easy.


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## SlideStop

Thanks Taffy!! Any idea on how tight they should be?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

SlideStop said:


> Thanks Taffy!! Any idea on how tight they should be?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 On a small single tree like you have I would put then in from the end about 6 " attach them to the cross bar so they don't move around. When adjusted I wouls say that you should be able to move the singletree 3" forward and 3" backwards.


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## clippityclop

Straps on the single tree - here is what I was taught. 

The straps are there to keep the tree from swiveling to a 90 degree angle while harnessing up- for example, as you attach the traces, and your horse shifts in the cart or moves a little, the single tree will twist (if there are no nylon straps holding it) and will point right to his rear and if he shifts his weight again and backs up a bit, BAM he just got poked in the rear and then there is no telling what happens at that point - depends on how well-broke your equine is.

Now the reason there is 'play' in the nylon straps holding the single tree (and generally the whole point of the singletree's existence in the first place), is because the movement allows the horse's shoulder to swing forward with the harness on and won't make any compressed points on the horses shoulder/chest area which after repetitive motion, would cause hair loss or sometimes skin problems - the most consistent being similar to the white spots you'd find on a horses back from a bad fitting saddle.

hope that helps with that particular question!


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## SlideStop

Thanks! Good point! I try to also be cautious as I know they can be sensitive back there. Not that they would kick but they definitely would leap forward if it was hard enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clippityclop

I wrap my breeching straps around in a sort of figure 8 fashion - it isn't too tight, but it doesn't slide up and down the shafts, either. Here's a picture of my pony's breeching - kind of a quick and dirty harness job - but functional...maybe this helps? If you look closely, you can see the little metal loop on the bottom of my shaft on this side - I run the breeching thru it once and then just sort of wrap a figure 8 on the shaft after that.... clear as mud? LOL!


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## Clayton Taffy

Clippity clop would you like a polite critique on your breeching? You will probably get one from someone anyway, might as well be a polite one. (Smile)


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## clippityclop

LOL - if you want to but it wouldn't do me any good because this cart and harness don't go with this pony-- it was a quick 5 minute grab the pony, grab ANY cart and harness (cart is too big, harness is custom for another horse) - just for a picture of the way I tie my breeching - hence the cropped photo of just his rear.


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## clippityclop

I think you should critique it- this is a topic on learning about harness/cart etc, so it would do someone good somewhere I'm sure!

Someone should start a topic somewhere with some pics of good versus bad examples of harness hitching...

I personally wish I knew more folks around here who drove in collars and hames...fitting a collar is as hard as fitting a saddle!


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## Clayton Taffy

clippityclop said:


> Someone should start a topic somewhere with some pics of good versus bad examples of harness hitching...QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> I thought about doing this .
> 
> First thing I would do is raise the breeching probably two holes. The breeching is droopy behind and to fix that you need to wrap the breeching wrapstraps going to the front of the footmans loop( the bracket under the shafts that the HBstaps go through) This will bring the ends of the breeching forward and take out that droop in the back.
> 
> Once you take out that droop you might only have to raise the breeching one hole.
> 
> Also when you take the holdback staps to the shafts, go under the tug, then go through the footmans loop (metal loop under the shaft),then wrap the shafts towards the front, then on your way back to the breeching go above the tugs. This will keep the tugs from drooping when you stop, the same reason you put the tugs going through the two belly bands. WHEW!
> 
> Hows that for Mud
> 
> Cute pony rear.


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## Clayton Taffy

wrap straps

The first 5 photos are of one wrap.
6, 7 & 8 are of two wraps
9 & 10 are of three wraps

As you see, hopefully, the traces, (I refered to them earlier as tugs)
Go through the wrap stap, but do not wrap the traces up when you wrap the shafts.


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## SlideStop

Why do you wrap the traces through the straps?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

You don't wrap the traces They go through the wrap straps as they go to the shafts and then back to the breeching. Doing this keeps the traces from drooping, like they are in the clippty clop's photo.

The traces still have total movement.


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## SlideStop

Gotcha! That's what I ment. Originally I was told I could run them through the ring on the breeching, no?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop

Wait I guess that would bring them a little to far in now that I think.about it. Nevermind!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

No they need to go unobsructed from the breast collar to the singletree, with total freedom of movement. There are leather pieces you can rig up on your cart to have them go through also.

I hope this is helping and i am explaining myself somewhat clear.


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## SlideStop

Ah, yes. Mine have free movement. They just go between belly bands.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

Going through the belly bands is a grat start but you need them to go through something else to keep them from drooping when you stop. So the traces should go through the hold back strap at least.


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## clippityclop

you need to wrap the breeching wrapstraps going to the front of the footmans loop( the bracket under the shafts that the HBstaps go through) 
.[/QUOTE]

Well looky there I learned something new! I never knew it was called the footmans loop. Now I can take my new lingo back to my driving group and throw that word around LOL! Some of the ladies have been driving longer than me and never knew what that little bracket was called. I like to learn new things everyday. Thanks for the tidbit!

Yep - that droop in the breeching (around his hindQ's might also be contributed to how the harness was stored. It could have been stored better - perhaps hung up, but I had it in a bag, all coiled up and that doesn't help much for the longevity - shame on me.......


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## clippityclop

Taffy, thanks for taking the time to post all of those pics - that had to be time consuming!


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## SlideStop

Yes! Thanks Taffy! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

Well looky there I learned something new! I never knew it was called the footmans loop. Now I can take my new lingo back to my driving group and throw that word around LOL! Some of the ladies have been driving longer than me and never knew what that little bracket was called. I like to learn new things everyday. Thanks for the tidbit!
.......[/QUOTE]

I learned something new also reciently, When you start to harness you should always put the collar or the breast collar on first, before the saddle. Who new? I always put the saddle on first. I learned this when I read those books I recomended to slide stop. Some ppl wont get in a carriage if the horse was not harnessed in the proper way, ie breast collar first.


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## SlideStop

Uhmmm I wonder why the breast collar should go first...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy

They gave some reason, I will have to look it up again. I did not think that the reason they stated was good enough to have it set in stone. It seemed like a flimsy reason to me!

here it is in the old days collers were put on first with the collar, hames, traces and false martingale put on as a singlr unit. then the saddle. and the loop of the false martingale had the girth run through it then the girth was buckled. If the saddle was put on first then the collar, the saddle girth would have to be unbuckled for the martingale. So it was to save time and effort. And now has become traditionally the way it is done.


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## clippityclop

That is interesting - I also do the saddle first - again I think it is because it might be related to having only one pair of hands to get the horse ready with...

for some reason (and I don't know why) I don't like to put the shafts on the ground. I don't know if it was the way I was taught, or some OCD thing (LOL)...

So I don't even get the cart out until he is harnessed and it can go straight into the tugs....

I also don't put my reins on until last. Does anyone else do that? That's another thing I have great respect for - my driving lines. That is the very last thing I attach before I take the halter off of his neck.


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## GreySorrel

clippityclop said:


> That is interesting - I also do the saddle first - again I think it is because it might be related to having only one pair of hands to get the horse ready with...
> 
> for some reason (and I don't know why) I don't like to put the shafts on the ground. I don't know if it was the way I was taught, or some OCD thing (LOL)...
> 
> So I don't even get the cart out until he is harnessed and it can go straight into the tugs....
> 
> I also don't put my reins on until last. Does anyone else do that? That's another thing I have great respect for - my driving lines. That is the very last thing I attach before I take the halter off of his neck.


I put the collar on, then the harness, then hames, etc....like you I put my driving lines on last, I don't like them dragging the ground or being stepped on. Once my harness has been put on, a once over, then we hitch up.


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## michaelvanessa

*tug stops*



SlideStop said:


> I just started driving the mini donkies at my barn after their 2 year break (long story). They each have their own harnesses that are adjusted to them and "directions" about their commands, trace and bridle adjustment from a previous owner. They have been behind the cart about 4 times now for short amounts of time. They got right back into it like they didn't miss a day! They also seem to really enjoy it and take their jobs seriously. They DON'T bray for each other when in tack and their attitudes change when their harnesses go on. Although I've done TONS of ground driving, I've never actually sat in a cart and driven. I know where all the stuff goes but there is two things I'm not sure of.
> 
> 1) the traces... Should they be taught? Because the setting it says to have them seems loose to me. The pulling should be coming from the traces and not the surcingle and shafts, right?
> 2) when making sharp turns the shafts bump them in the neck. Although I've been using it on the setting it was on my thought is that they need to be lowered and set back a little bit.
> 
> Also, I would love to get a book on driving, from harness adjustment, to parts of the tack, to how to break them to drive. I actually find driving quite relaxing!
> 
> Any other tips and advice is welcome!!
> 
> Many, many thanks!!
> 
> Some Awww factor..


 the best thing i can recomend is to have tug stops welded to the cart to stop it slideing foward i pointed it out to a young lady as to the problems to a cart of the same designe get one each side and problems solved.


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## SlideStop

After some breeching adjustments they stopped sliding. I'd be hesitant to do anything permanent because both of them use the same cart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## churumbeque

clippityclop said:


> Taffy, thanks for taking the time to post all of those pics - that had to be time consuming!


 Those were excellent and detailed pictures.


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## charming

Thank you for the explanation Taffy! They are great. My cart was delivered yesterday, and to my knowledge, it does not have footmans loops on it??


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## michaelvanessa

*harnessing up and puting to*



clippityclop said:


> That is interesting - I also do the saddle first - again I think it is because it might be related to having only one pair of hands to get the horse ready with...
> 
> for some reason (and I don't know why) I don't like to put the shafts on the ground. I don't know if it was the way I was taught, or some OCD thing (LOL)...
> 
> So I don't even get the cart out until he is harnessed and it can go straight into the tugs....
> 
> I also don't put my reins on until last. Does anyone else do that? That's another thing I have great respect for - my driving lines. That is the very last thing I attach before I take the halter off of his neck.


 for quickness my working set is all togeather so i have no adjusting to do when its cleaned its put back as it was.
i put the driveing saddle (pad) on first that includes the back strap briching crupper back band and the reins.
i then do up the girth slightley as i have to add the martingale.
the crupper is opened and refastend around the tail.
so the pad and back strap and breeching are all in place the reins are looped through the back strap and heald in place with the back band keeper.
i then have the full collar dont for get to bend it slightley on your knee to ease it gentley.
i undo trickys head collar and offer the full collar and ask for his head he offers it and the full collar is put on upside down then rotated to the right way up and slid down the neck.
the hames and martingale and tugs are put on the collar in one and the top hame strap fastend.
the girth is undone and the false martingale fitted and the girth done up tite and his legs offerd to me to pull them up as to free traped hair and skin and helps make him comftable.
i can drive him in a blinkerd bridle or an open one then the reins are fed through the hame terrets and fastend to the bit.
the cart is out side the yard i walk him out and ask him to stand and i put him to i feed the shafts through the tugs and thay rest at the tug stops.
i then walk to and undo the traces and put them to the pigtails then the breaching straps to incorparate the traces through the breeching ds on the shafts.
i use a troting sulkey with motorbike tires and drive up the tracks and on the road i ask him to stand and i climb aboard and ask him to walk on and warm him up in walk for 10 minuits.
my reins are laced on the last section were thay buckle up togeather.
and after exerciseing the harness is wiped clean and left to dry and put back in the harness bag.
the harness in question was brought in the reading horse sales and it was total junk.
a harness maker aproched us as thay set up in a rideing school down the road and thay went to the london harness horse parade and sent letters asking if any one needed there harnesses repaired.
i had it rebuilt i used 90% of the buckles the blinkers head pece of the bridle the throat lash and the outer part of the driveing saddle and the crupper.
the collar is a split full adjustable collar from canada by burrows collars its the best full collar i have ever owned as it fitted all our ponys.
all the ornaments on the face drop and on the martingale are brass horses.


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## Clayton Taffy

charming said:


> Thank you for the explanation Taffy! They are great. My cart was delivered yesterday, and to my knowledge, it does not have footmans loops on it??


What kind of shafts does it have? Wood or metal?
Footmans loops are under $5 a pair, I will measure where they are on my cart tomorrow and find out where you can order a pair on line.

Yea!!! on the purchase of your new cart!!!


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