# Sanitizing a stall (bleach or no?)



## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I would not use bleach. You don't know what is in the floor and bleach mixed with the wrong things (eg. urine) creates poisonous gas. If you're going to use bleach, you'd better have a forced air unit to all workers in the barn. This is not child's play.

Can you hold off on putting any livestock at all in the barn? It needs to dry out. Open all doors and windows and get the air moving through there. Use big fans if needed. It might take a week; maybe more if it's bad. You need to dry it out! 

I don't know what Dr. Bronner's is, but check the chemicals in it and do some research first to see how it might react to what's in there.

I'm not sure what to use, but you've got to be really careful. If I come up with any ideas, I'll post again.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I just did a quick Google search and there are numerous products available just at Lowe's... 

Another thought I had was that maybe some of the floor needs to be taken out and replaced with fresh gravel. I'm assuming that the floor is dirt/stone/gravel/sand?? If you wouldn't sleep in the barn due to hygiene, then your horses shouldn't either.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Well it's not too wet, just damp. Every stall has a window, and all sides of the barn have large doors, and they're open as well. I think it'll dry by Saturday if I don't add any more water to it.

Dr. Bronners is pure castile soap made with organic oils.so there's no chemicals in it at all, which is why that was my first choice of cleaning product. 
I use it for everything. Myself, my animals, laundry, cleaning, etc. It's concentrated so its easy to dilute.

Thank you for the advice!! 
I think maybe I'll grab a bag of those pellets that you soak to make them expand into shavings. I know that'll help soak up what little liquid is there.
We also plan to put down new cinder or stone, but I'm not sure when that's going to happens. As we're presses for time, the land owner is forcing us out due to insurance issues. ):


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

The floor is for the most part cement, more like cinders that were compressed down.
And some areas of it are loose.
There is a concrete slab at the back


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Here's a picture of the stall before being cleaned out completely. Sorry I don't have one of it empty.
The stall really is mostly solid except for the edges. It's not like I could dig much of it out easily, but like I said, we do plan to put down all new cinders and build it up.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

I'm not sure what I'm looking at, but if the stall has a concrete floor then you'll probably have to lime under and use stall mats, regardless of what bedding you use.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah I'm sorry that the quality is so poor.
I'm not really sure what to call it?

It's not like sidewalk concrete, or the concrete in the aisle, but it isn't loose gravel or cinder (except for around the edges and some low spots that seem to have been filled)
I'll take my camera tomorrow and get some clear pictures of it completely empty.
It's like really porous concrete, gravely concrete that's deteriorated. I'm sure that type has a name.

I would like to get stall mats, just for my mare's stall at least.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I was gonna say lime, at least at some point in the proceedings.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I know lime neutralizes odors, does it have other effects as well? I know there are multiple types..

I'll be stopping at t.s or the hardware store tomorrow so I'll make a list!


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Horse Poor said:


> I'm not sure what I'm looking at, but if the stall has a concrete floor then you'll probably have to lime under and use stall mats, regardless of what bedding you use.


Would I have to take those mats out and clean under them periodically? How often?
I'm asking this question for if the stall is some type of cinder/gravel as well


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Hmmm... I don't know anyone that does aside from maintenance type stuff but idk of anyone with concrete.

I would probably say no assuming you keep the stalls clean. Maybe do an annual spring cleaning and lift up the mats?


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I mean the stalls definitely do drain down into the ground, not just out of the stall.
This stable is nearly 100 years old, just been refurbished a few times. 
The stalls are obviously slanted, so they've just been slowly deteriorating all these years.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

bleach will kill mold, does not make toxic fumes when put on urine, Use in a well ventilated area. If there are other chemicals in the stall, the bleach could make toxic fumes , like bleach and ammonia (the kind in a bottle) can make you sick.
After you get the stalls dry, see if there is a source of water such as a leaky pipe causing moisture.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I mean, I've seen bleach cause a reaction in my cat's litter box (which I promptly threw out and replaced) SO I am hesitant 
But these stalls have been empty for a very long time, so I think most of the urine would be gone anyway..
If I do use any bleach I think it will be diluted in a spray bottle and only used on the areas that were visibly moldy.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

If you concerned about the mold you can use hydrogen peroxide on it and it will kill the mold no toxic fumes. I think I would scrub the area down, let it dry, then spray the peroxide.

I vaguely remember reading something about using bleach on mold and that it does not prevent it from coming back, but the hydrogen peroxide will keep it from coming back.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Lexiie said:


> Well it's not too wet, just damp. Every stall has a window, and all sides of the barn have large doors, and they're open as well. I think it'll dry by Saturday if I don't add any more water to it.
> 
> Dr. Bronners is pure castile soap made with organic oils.so there's no chemicals in it at all, which is why that was my first choice of cleaning product.
> I use it for everything. Myself, my animals, laundry, cleaning, etc. It's concentrated so its easy to dilute.
> ...


 The pellet bedding does not need soaked prior to use. Just open the bag and spread the pellets. They will breakdown on their own.

I hope I read your statement correctly. If not, ignore what I said!


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I know! Thanks 
We use the pellets as a base in our stalls anyway, not soaked. We put a whole bunch where they pee and then it just soaks it up? They're wonderful. They help with muddy areas too


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I would stick with the Dr. Bronner's for cleaning, and then add lime and rubber mats. If you are cleaning your stalls daily, you should be able to go quite awhile (like, a few years) without having to remove the mats to clean again. Make sure your mats fit your stall snugly. If there are large gaps around them then the urine can get underneath easily and you will have to remove them more frequently for cleaning. 

The last barn I was at pulled out all their mats after 3 years, and I was REALLY surprised in how clean floors had remained. It took them longer to pull the mats than to actually clean the stalls!


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I should add to my previous post- even though the stalls were matted, they still used a good amount of sawdust in each stall.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah I figured.
Our horses are out all day every day, unless there's an issue.
But when they're in I like to make it nice and fluffy 
She has rubs on her hocks from laying down on the rocky pasture


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

there is stuff that you could use in the stall that is safe to use with horses I do not remember the name sorry but if you look I think I have seen it at T S C and agg lime it use as well


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its safer to go to an Ag supply store and buy a disinfectant product that's produced specifically for use in livestock areas than to buy stuff from a DIY store
If you use something like StallDry or Sweet PDZ every day on any wet patches that will also help the floor to dry and reduce smells
Ammonia based bleach shouldn't be used on urine in the amounts you'd get from a horse - the chemical reaction gives off Chlorine gas


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I went to tractor supply this morning and looked around their pet area, and thoroughly through the equine section, but they didn't have any type of cleaner.
I asked the worker, but he just showed me to the household cleaners.

So what I did was took hydrogen peroxide and put it in a spray bottle, I cleaned the stall out the walls and everything then sprayed it down.
After that sat for a while I scrubbed everything with Dr. Bronner's and then swept out the soapy water.
Now it's been power washed and left to dry.

Tomorrow morning I'm going to go in and put down lime and pellets, one they soak up some stuff I'm going to clean it out and do it again.

Here's a clear picture of the stall before I cleaned, we're going to be repainting soon.


After scrubbing the back wall as far as I could reach. I'm 5'7" and the bottom of that window is above the top of my head


Concrete slab in the back. We have one stall that's fully intact and it's all made out of this type, but still has this raised block in the back. Maybe an inch. What's it for?


Here's a hole that I dug out, and a close up of what the floor is made out of. Definitely solid, not just loose cinder.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Just as a note, there was a reaction when you used bleach in the litter box because cat pee is full of ammonia. Ammonia plus bleach equals bad chemical reaction.  There isn't as much ammonia in horse pee, so it would probably be okay. When I worked at a vet's office, we would bleach the dog runs after a dog left boarding or the hospital and never had an issue with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Just as a note, there was a reaction when you used bleach in the litter box because cat pee is full of ammonia.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, that's why I threw it away. I knew that I wasn't supposed to use bleach, but it just smelled so horrible.
Then it started reacting and I said nope nope nope and threw it away. The newer one is much deeper and we both like it much better haha


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Make sure you get quality matts and bed VERY well. Even with matts concrete can be hard.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Indeed it can! 
I plan to get decently thick mats and I'll be buying extra bedding for when she's inside.
They're rarely inside except for 15 minutes to eat.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Just as a note, there was a reaction when you used bleach in the litter box because cat pee is full of ammonia. Ammonia plus bleach equals bad chemical reaction.  There isn't as much ammonia in horse pee, so it would probably be okay. When I worked at a vet's office, we would bleach the dog runs after a dog left boarding or the hospital and never had an issue with it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not true about the horse urine & bleach not causing a problem. Someone else posted this earlier in the thread as well. I knew someone who actually killed her horse by using bleach to sanitize the stall. By the time she figured out what what causing his breathing problems, there was no going back to good health despite her improving her cleaning routines.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

That slab in the back was likely a platform for a manger or hay rack of some kind that sat on the ground. ;-)


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Jeffers: Ken'L-Lan-128 | Jeffers Pet

http://www.axelamedicalsupplies.com/foundations/store/shopdetail.asp?params=AX514^Zep-O-Mint_Deodorant_5_Gallon

I've used the zep-o-mint before and it's great. My dad used to run the animal rooms at Brookhaven national laboratory and he would bring this home for me when I was a kid to clean my stalls.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

SueNH said:


> Jeffers: Ken'L-Lan-128 | Jeffers Pet
> 
> http://www.axelamedicalsupplies.com/foundations/store/shopdetail.asp?params=AX514^Zep-O-Mint_Deodorant_5_Gallon
> 
> I've used the zep-o-mint before and it's great. My dad used to run the animal rooms at Brookhaven national laboratory and he would bring this home for me when I was a kid to clean my stalls.


This stuff sounds nice!

I can't believe that lady poured it in a deep cut though!! "Keep out of reach of children AND morons".:shock:


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

People do some stupid things. 
I got a new washer and dryer yesterday. Reading the directions I was amazed to see a warning not to put animals in the washer. Means some fool did it. Haven't read the dryer manual yet but I'm sure it's in there.

I think the Ken L stuff and the zep o mint are the same thing just different companies putting it out.

I used to spray the floor and walls of the stalls after I striped them. Dumped garden lime on the dirt. Left a nice minty smell that lingered for a day or two.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Majority of products for sterilising stables are lime based. You can get a sack of lime flower for very little money, it removes smells and is safe for the horse to eat.


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## mrwithers (Jun 25, 2014)

NorthernMama said:


> I would not use bleach. You don't know what is in the floor and bleach mixed with the wrong things (eg. urine) creates poisonous gas. If you're going to use bleach, you'd better have a forced air unit to all workers in the barn. This is not child's play.
> 
> Can you hold off on putting any livestock at all in the barn? It needs to dry out. Open all doors and windows and get the air moving through there. Use big fans if needed. It might take a week; maybe more if it's bad. You need to dry it out!
> 
> ...



Bleach + ammonia produces a small amount of chlorine gas but nothing to be worried about. The small amount of ammonia in horse urine makes it even less of an issue. You still should be careful not to use bleach in a confined space without ventilation. Run a small fan while you clean if you can.

Bleach is used in biological labs because it dissolves organic compounds and kills anything living (including mold). Don't use anything besides bleach because it's going to be less effective. Once you've sterilized and cleaned the stall make sure you rinse out the stall thoroughly with water and then let it dry.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Any chlorine gas is too much. Ok for you if you don't mind dying.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

SueNH said:


> People do some stupid things.
> I got a new washer and dryer yesterday. Reading the directions I was amazed to see a warning not to put animals in the washer. Means some fool did it. Haven't read the dryer manual yet but I'm sure it's in there.


 

Heh, kind of like curling irons that say not to use them in the shower and for external use only.

I'm curious yet afraid to know why they had to put the external use only warning on those things. :shock:

I say remove the warning labels from everything and see what happens! :twisted:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Now granted the label doesn't say "do not pour product into deep open wounds" (I AM amazed at how well it healed lol!) it only says such things as:
"DANGER" and "CORROSIVE" and "Causes skin burns" "Harmful if absorbed through skin" "Do not get on skin/Wear protective clothing"

Clearly it's not off the label use and works very well for wound cleansing!*
*


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Lexiie said:


> Titles makes it pretty obvious, but let me explain in detail.
> 
> We're getting down to the little things at the new barn now and one of them is cleaning the stalls.
> These stalls have 10 year old dirty bedding (wood shavings) in them. While raking out the stall, the smell was horrible, the ground was damp underneath, and there was (white) mold everywhere. I had to stop and go outside. It made my throat swell actually, as well as everyone else who was cleaning.


The smell and throat swelling was probably due to ammonia, a volatile breakdown product from the urea in horse urine.

The white mould is most probably a fungus decomposing wood (your old wood shaving bedding). These moulds are not pathogens (they don't invade the body to cause disease), although the spores of such moulds can sometimes cause issues like allergies, and respiratory irritation if breathed in (something that's also true for plant pollen in general, fern spores etc). Wood decomposer fungi are not the same type as you find in bachelor refrigerators or pantries either - different kettle of fish. They're important in forest ecosystems to break down the dead wood and recycle its nutrients (fungi and termites are the main players in that role).

The ammonia is a strong irritant and will be the main problem in this situation. It's water-soluble and should flush out easily with a hosing - and of course, being volatile means it evaporates readily at room temperature and would eventually clear out just with sufficient airing. Hosing with every door and window open will get rid of the ammonia (and other stuff) very quickly.

There is no necessity for "sterilising" the box - just clean with broom and water, and air dry. If you can get some sun into the box, that's excellent - will help dry things... (UV is also a super, no-residue steriliser - more necessary for nappies than horse boxes though) ...When the box is dry, put in clean bedding, and all should be lovely.

In the event of ever having to sterilise anything, I would not (generally) recommend chlorine bleach: It's a respiratory irritant, and it makes persistent cancer-causing chlorine compounds when in contact with organic materials (bedding, fabrics, etc). The sun's UV is great, as is heat sterilising suitable things in an autoclave or pressure cooker when that's really important.

The whole "disinfect everything" attitude is pushed by manufacturers of cleaning products and disinfectants, and has produced more health problems than it's solved by being applied too broadly, into households instead of operating theatres and intensive care wards. So, we have chemical sensitivities, and record rates of asthma, skin rashes, auto-immune disorders and cancer... because we're exposing ourselves to toxic cleaning (and other) chemicals, removing beneficial bacteria from our skin that normally keep problem bacteria at bay, not giving our immune systems enough to do, etc. - This is all of necessity simplified and in a nutshell for brevity, but the science on this is pretty clear. Anyone interested in this sort of thing could go to the environmental toxicology section in their university library and do some interesting reading...

White vinegar, sodium bicarbonate, and ethanol are effective household cleaning agents that don't have problems with toxicity and persistence in the environment / food chain.

Happy cleaning! 

PS: Late addition - prompted by Horse Forum newsletter link. I'm not even sure if I'd originally answered! ;-)


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

stevenson said:


> bleach will kill mold, does not make toxic fumes when put on urine, Use in a well ventilated area. If there are other chemicals in the stall, the bleach could make toxic fumes , like bleach and ammonia (the kind in a bottle) can make you sick.
> After you get the stalls dry, see if there is a source of water such as a leaky pipe causing moisture.


pfft. it does something in contact with urine. I absent mindedly pour bleach into my RV toilet once, years ago. Yeah, I opened every window and left the house for the day until it aired out. I never did that again. Stupid cleaning bug.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

I think for preventing your problem your windows are the answer, the more sunlight you can get into each stall the better. It looks like those window panes only let minimal light in. (dark and damp=mold) I'm not sure how to redo the windows but I think the sun is your best friend, maybe take the windows out and put some sort of thing like a top door that you normally see on a double door for a horse stable doors??? You'd have to close it only if it rained/bad weather.

Also the more air circulation that would come by letting more fresh air in would be your friend.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

We used to use lime meant for stables. It helped dry the wood floors that were often soaked in urine. We did this maybe twice yearly. The horses were turned out while we did this mainly because they'd get snorty at the white stuff. We'd later bed over top of it so the horses couldn't see it.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Horseychick87 said:


> Heh, kind of like curling irons that say not to use them in the shower and for external use only.
> 
> I'm curious yet afraid to know why they had to put the external use only warning on those things. :shock:
> 
> I say remove the warning labels from everything and see what happens! :twisted:



An old one that's been circulating a long time:

Danger Eliminates The Stupid People - Crap Jokes - Visordown


Something else to amuse:

Darwin Awards: Darwin Awards


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## canterbury (Jun 29, 2014)

Hi Lexiie. I would avoid bleach! Bleach is safe to use at the precise, minimal levels for disinfecting but many people tend to just "guess" and then bleach becomes a serious hazard. I have used Nolvasan Disinfectant (sp. made for livestock and animals) in the past for my stalls, mats and dog cages. I have purchased it in a gallon size (approx $69.00) near the livestock areas of some farm stores. Don't be alarmed by the price, it lasts a long time and smells great. Also, please make sure to read the instructions on use!


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