# What color is my mini?



## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

I was told he is a blue roan, but most I see have a black mane and tail. I'm very new to this site. Thanks in advance!


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Here is a picture of his face/mouth, since you can't see it with that grazing muzzle on.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Looks like he's either grey or possibly varnish roan. Not a great pic to tell. I'm leaning more toward varnish roan (which is one of the appy/LP genes), with the way there seems to be color concentrated around his joints (hocks, knees, etc) on his legs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Interesting riding set up lol. He is cute!

Hard to tell from the picture- can't really see the horse that much but he looks like a grey. Many greys retain some portion of darker hairs that can look like roaning. Mane and tail will be the first to lighten to white.

Here's one from google at a similar stage.









A blue roan is a black horse with roan which only affects the coat and not the head or legs. Here's a very light colored blue roan (most are darker and as you can see yours is even lighter than this guy as well as looking nothing like him)









ETA- Drafty beat me to it  though I disagree with the varnish (from those pics, it is an option). Grey can also have that "concentration" at some stages on the legs (see my pic above) and he shows no other concentrated areas or characteristics.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Something about the way the color is concentrated SOLELY to the hock and is white below the hock brings to mind varnish.

Idk. I could be wrong. I'm on my phone, so the pic is small (even when I tap it to blow it up) and kinda out of focus.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Thank you!! He is 3, do you think his color will change much?


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Here is a better pic of his face.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

If he is grey he will continue to get lighter and lighter until white or close to it then may begin to develop "flea bites".


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Blue roans typically have black legs and faces. So, no on the blue roan. Also they are cool toned, and your horse is warm toned.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I think I'm going with Drafty on this one and agree with varnish appy. Irish is he registered so that you can look at the sire & dam color? Don't quote me on the exact name because I'm drawing from a very sketchy memory but Von Hutten (or something like that) was a pretty strong line of the appy coloring in minis.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Okay it was driving me crazy so I went and pulled Cherry's paperwork. It is Vant Huttenest (I was kinda close lol). Unfortunately even if he is registered, AMHA anyway, does not show any colors on the papers except for the horse the papers are for. 

Since we're in the color section I'll add my rant of "why the heck not?" AQHA doesn't either, at least not 20 years ago which is the most recent of my AQHA papers. APHA on the other hand does, at least for the paints in the lines, so good for them on doing that.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Okay. Looking at the pics on a computer monitor now. Leaning even more toward varnish roan. The fact that he's already that light as a 3yo makes me lean away from grey. I know it's not impossible, but it's unlikely that a 3yo would be white already.

The color on the stifle, hock, front of knee, and hard points of the face all scream varnish, to me. 

If he had more grey on his body, I'd lean more toward grey. However, with how white his body is, I don't think there would be that much color left on his legs.


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Thank you for al the replies!! Here is a picture of him last summer. Does it change anyone's opinion?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Irish710 said:


> Thank you for al the replies!! Here is a picture of him last summer. Does it change anyone's opinion?


Your pic isn't showing up on my computer, but it does (briefly) on my phone.

None of your pics are very good to judge by, unfortunately. None are really clear full body pics (with no interference from tack or people) and they're all taken in varying degrees of light/shadow.

From that last pic, I still think varnish roan. That color on his nose bone is very common in varnish. Coupled with the color concentrated on the hocks, stifle and front of knees from the other pic, as well as the pretty much completely white body by age three...it just all adds up to varnish for me.


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Photography has never been my friend 

I'll try to get some today, without anything/anyone else in the picture.

Here's a pic of his front legs. I know the sun is on them which just adds to my list of terrible pics, sorry 

Thanks again, I really appreciate the input!!


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Just curious, does everyone agree that he is NOT a blue roan? 
Thanks!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

He is 100% NOT blue roan. 

Okay, that last pic has me convinced he's varnish roan (which, like I said, is one of the appy genes and not related to regular roan at all).


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm leaning toward varnish roan over gray as well.

A lot of people will misidentify a black horse going gray or varnishing for a blue roan at the early stages when they are still mostly black with only some white hairs (though a knowledgeable person will always be able to the difference even at those early stages!) Gray & varnish are progressive and eventually turn the horse white, while a roan horse will not change much throughout his life aside from seasonal variations. Sometimes sellers misidentify the color on purpose (thinking "blue roan" will sell better) others just don't know their horse colors.

It's fairly unusual for a gray or a varnish to be so white at 3. He could be both (which seems to speed up the process) or he could be older than you think (has a vet confirmed his age?)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

More summer pics are good. Really can't judge well in the winter. Just try to get more of the whole horse without stuff on him 

I still say grey. He does look a little more varnish'y in the last pic but has NO LP characteristics whatsoever.

Yes definitely not blue roan. He has some greying gene whether it's grey or varnish (varnish is "roan" but acts much more similiarly to grey then a true roan, which yes he is definitely NOT)

Think of varnish as grey that only LP (Appaloosa coloring) horses get. Varnish works very similarly to grey BUT leaves color in all the "bony" spots. Here's a google pic I love to use as it's so classic:









Now obviously this mare is brown but you can see the resemblance to the grey I posted but the color remains in places color won't on greys. Now the reason I personally am leaning more towards grey is a) he has no other LP characteristics (he should show some) and b) as you can see grey will concentrate on the bony areas on the legs in grey too (but not so definitively elsewhere as the varnish is). Aside from his face being slightly dark (and I don't think 100% LP looking) he only has color on his legs which is common in greys. 100% positive he is one or the other though. If you wanted to know you could test. But I bet he will show you better in a summer coat, esp as he ages.

Good point that he may have looked more "roany" at some point hence why people said that.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

To add- note that varnish tends to not touch the mane/tail either and leaves a lot more color. BUT LP on it's own is strange so it's hard to have set rules. Shrug


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

I appreciate the info, thank you!

Is it possible for a blue roan to have a white mane?


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## ChristineNJ (Jan 23, 2010)

I would say grey. Lots of white with a little black but will turn more white as he ages.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Irish710 said:


> I appreciate the info, thank you!
> 
> Is it possible for a blue roan to have a white mane?


If a blue roan has a white mane/tail, they are more than just a blue roan. 
You can combine roan, grey and/or LP (varnish roan) all on a black horse but they are no longer considered a blue roan the moment you add varnish roan. They would be varnish roan because they would no longer resemble a blue roan as the varnish characteristics cover regular roan. If they were blue roan (or even a varnish blue roan) with grey as well, they would simply be grey. The colors under grey would be a "base coat" which is entirely concealed under grey. 

As far as this boy is concerned, I suspect that he is more likely a grey than anything else. He could even be homozygous grey which has a trend to go through the grey process from a base coat to a snowy white coat very quickly. Some heterozygous greys are capable of a very rapid greying process but it is uncommon. If he was a blue roan (actual roan not white hairs from grey) at birth, he is being covered by the blanket covering of grey. Years back my mom bought a 4 year old "black" Arabian, the sellers insisted that she was a black who just happened to have little white hairs all over. Yep, she was a grey and got lighter and lighter every year. 

The reasons he is not roan: roan doesn't turn mane/tail/forelock white, roan prefers to stay off the face and legs (leaving them a dark solid color)

The reasons I wouldn't consider him a varnish roan is that he doesn't have mottling on the skin around his nose/eyes, all the hard bony areas of the face lack the dark color that varnish roan leaves there. 

My conclusion is that he is grey, perhaps a blue roan based grey which may be why he has so much dark color on the front part of the fore legs but that will also disappear in the coming years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

As an example of grey:









Notice how she is still dark on the hocks and down the very front of her forelegs. This mare was born midnight black with just a few little white hairs on her face (the start of the greying process), she was heterozygous grey and lost all dark colors a few years after this picture. Her heterozyous grey daughter who was also born midnight black with a few white hairs on her face went through the grey process very differently and a different speed at which to grey out at. 

When your mini sheds into a summer coat he will look very differently, likely could even have a bit of a dappling pattern as winter coats tend to be lighter colored, hide dapples and make you guess what shade of grey is underneath ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Irish710 said:


> I appreciate the info, thank you!
> 
> Is it possible for a blue roan to have a white mane?


Not unless there are other genes at play in which case it wouldn't truly be a blue roan. Roan does not work on the mane or tail.


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

I took these today.


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Picture 2


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

He is adorable and is definitely a grey ;-)


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

SunnyDraco said:


> He is adorable and is definitely a grey ;-)


Okay, now I see the grey. Those other pics just looked more varnish than grey to me. Never seen a grey with the legs still black, but the body mostly white like that...until you posted that other pic. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Too cute!!

Can I have him? XD

Still saying grey. I bet his hind legs would match the fronts if he didn't have socks.

Thanks for getting more pics! Always nice to have a poster follow up


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

Yogiwick said:


> Too cute!!
> 
> Can I have him? XD
> 
> ...


If I could separate him and my 2 year old, I'd give him to you... Lol!!

He's a 3 year old stud, and loves to give my teens a hard time. As soon as my 2 year old takes his lead, he'll go anywhere and do almost anything.
Sometimes I check her pockets for treats, because it still amazes me, lol.

Thanks again everyone!!


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## Irish710 (Mar 18, 2016)

I am just curious if everyone feels the same now that he has shed most of his winter coat. The skin under his coat is definitely black. The dark places you see, are his skin. Thanks!


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## BzooZu (Jan 12, 2014)

I am saying gray as well. Even more so with this last photo. His mane and tail is really light colored. Also varnish seems to keep higher contrast between the darker parts and the lighter parts so I dont think this is the case. And definitely not blue roan.

EDIT: Also all grey horses have dark skin.


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## Katstica (Apr 22, 2016)

The pictures are really small on my phone but is it possible that he is fewspot? I agree with the others that say he could be varnish roan as well. It's also totally possible that he is varnish roan under grey. He might be grey but I don't think those black spots on he legs are caused by grey. Looks way too concentrated to me. He is only 3 and I have never seen a horse grey out so fast.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Katstica said:


> The pictures are really small on my phone but is it possible that he is fewspot? I agree with the others that say he could be varnish roan as well. It's also totally possible that he is varnish roan under grey. He might be grey but I don't think those black spots on he legs are caused by grey. Looks way too concentrated to me. He is only 3 and I have never seen a horse grey out so fast.


Grey is unpredictable and can leave large dark areas especially on a young horse. Some greys that start out life as a black or bay foal will lose all dark hairs in their mane/tail rapidly while others will leave the mane/tail (sometimes also the lower legs) black for an extended amount of time before lightening up which is actually really neat to see such a loud contrast between a light grey body and still very black mane/tail/legs and only a few greys ever have this short lived contrast. I grew up with greys who were Arab and quarabs (no appy genetics) and at least one greyed out like this colt but at a slower rate as she was heterozygous grey. 

If the colt is homogygous grey, going grey as fast as he is is fairly normal. I have seen it myself, a filly who was as white as a statue before she was 5 years old. She started off chestnut, had a slight tint of color in her mane by the time she was 1 1/2 years old and you could barely make out that she had a large star.


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