# better pics to critique, clippy!!!



## morganshow11

it would not let me do more than 10 pics so here are some more. LOL, just thought i would through some eye shots is there.


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## 1111aqua

I dont know much about morgans, so no real critique from me but his back legs look off to me. But he sure is a cutie.


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## morganshow11

thank you he is a newbie lol.


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## onetoomany

Well you need to loosen that tie down for starters as he is completely bracing himself against it. You also need to move it up about 4" as it is sitting way too low on his nose. You also look like you are riding with too much contact with that bit and hanging on his mouth. I would suggest switching to a snaffle, especially if he is a greener horse. You also need to correct your "puppy paw" hands and thread the rein up over your pinkie under your three fingers and over your thumb. Riding with "puppy paws" often create harsh hands. You also tend to look down, you need to look up and this will straighten up your back. Your leg should be a bit more back and more in-line with the rest of your body. Your toes should be pointing straight forward, not slanting outward. With your toes slanting outwards you heel is constantly on your horse. You also need to get the stirrup more onto the ball of your foot as your stirrup is resting too far back. With the stirrup resting so far back you cannot stretch down your heel to really settle your weight in your saddle.

Your horse appears very base narrow in the front end. He also appeard to toe out in all four feet, especially the backs. He seems to have a weak topline, which could be remedied if you got him collected and got him to stop bracing with his head up. He seems to be camped out in the hind end but that could just be the pictures. He is also camped under in the front end but again, that could just be the pictures or the way he is standing. He also has a very straight shoulder with a neck that ties in very high. I would think he would look better and tie in smoother all around with proper muscling.


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## Equuestriaan

Onetoomany pretty much said it all. That horse looks uncomfortable with his face strapped so tightly. I think you need to loosen up your reins too because you can see his mouth is open in just about every pic and his ears are back... I think you're hurting his mouth. =[


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## HorsesAreForever

omg No offence but after seeing the first few I stopped looking. Usually I dont critique but I agree with everything OneOfToMany said!! Switch to a snaffle!!! YOu have WAYYYY to hard hands to be usuing that bit!! Put the stirrups on the ball of your foot, put those heels down. And say if you were to fall off... you'd be stuck in the stirrup unlss there quick release.. which from the looks of it there not. Shorten your stirrups and put your legs underneath you.

I feel SOOO sorry for that horse .. he has more muscle in his neck then he does anywhere else.. Im sure you love him to death but idk...ill stop there


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## morganshow11

i can not loosen my reins b/c i have to have a constent grip on them or he will bolt. ive tried a snaffle and it is worse;( im thinking about getting a hackamore though. he is not green its just that his temperment is ,9 so that were the purebred comes in. and that is his head set regardles or where my hands are.


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## Equuestriaan

Either way he's in pain and the comfort of your horse should come first... I'm not sure how to help you but all I can say is keep trying different things to find something that works for both of you.


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## NicoleS11

the fact that he is a purebred doesnt have any thing to do with the fact that he is uncomfortable. My moms purebred morgan mare does not do that at all. I dont know what to say about his "bolting"...


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## onetoomany

morganshow11 said:


> i can not loosen my reins b/c i have to have a constent grip on them or he will bolt. ive tried a snaffle and it is worse;( im thinking about getting a hackamore though. he is not green its just that his temperment is ,9 so that were the purebred comes in. and that is his head set regardles or where my hands are.


 
Having a hot horse has nothing to do with it; I have one of the hottest horses at my barn (and that's saying something as it is full of cutting bred Quarter Horses) and I ride her in a snaffle and usually on a loose rein. Working with a hot horse is a life time activity of tying to calm them and the way to do this is not by hanging on their mouth. You should be trying to ride more from your seat and legs and less through your hands even if he is trying to pull. Your hands are what is blocking him from dropping and relaxing that head and neck. Look at him standing out in pasture sometime. Look at him when he is relaxed and I guarantee you that his natural head set will be much lower. I agree with NicholS11 in that being a purebred Morgan has nothing to do with it. If you are having that many problems I would suggest getting lessons or taking him to a trainer and getting lessons with the trainer.


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## my2geldings

morganshow11 said:


> i can not loosen my reins b/c i have to have a constent grip on them or he will bolt. ive tried a snaffle and it is worse;( im thinking about getting a hackamore though. he is not green its just that his temperment is ,9 so that were the purebred comes in. and that is his head set regardles or where my hands are.


then I suggest going back down to basics and sending to a trainer who will know how to train him properly. Causing pain and discomfort to your horse because you can't control him is not reasoning you should be using. Things are going to continue to escalate without mentioning what he is going thru right now and will continue to go thru until you get the situation corrected. 

Cheers.


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## NewHeart

I agree both with Onetoomany and CacheDawnTexas, clearly there are issues here that are beyond your control. If you cannot loosen your reins without your horse bolting away, then to me, that would send up red flags regarding issues with training. Having hot horse really has little to do with this. I owned a 1D pro barrel horse for years who could have easily been considered hot. She knew her job, and liked to run, however never once did she try and bolt when I would loosen my reins with her. I agree that by causing pain/discomfort to your horse, you are not going to make matters any better with him. I would find a trainer to help you re-evaluate the issues that you are facing with him so further issues do not arise. Good luck to you.


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## english_rider144

I agree with everybody. It doesnt matter the breed. It doesnt matter how hot the horse is. It all comes down to training. If you're causing pain/discomfort then you're not making things any better. My best advice is to get a trainer and correct this problem before it gets worse.


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## onetoomany

I would also like to add that from the way the saddle looks in the pictures; it looks to be too wide and is therefore sitting too low on his withers. This could be another factor to many of your issues.


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## morganshow11

...ok....


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## Solo

To take away from the negativity so far in this thread:

He has a GORGEOUS mane and tail. Are you giving him supplements for that or is it natural?

I don't see any glaring conformation faults. Nothing really jumps out at me. He has very prominent withers just like Indy (maybe you noticed in my thread? LOL). But I think that only effects finding a saddle that is comfortable for him.

In the one shot from behind something does look a little funny, maybe that he's toed in? But I didn't notice that as much in the other pictures so I THINK it may be the way he is standing. I'm not to good at critiquing but I thought I would give it a try.

If I remember correctly you said that he was fairly new? I don't mean to grill you but I had a couple questions. How old is he? Did he come with that saddle? If he bolts with light contact why did you choose him over another horse? (Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just wondered).

I forget who said it but I agree that it's possible that he bolts because he is uncomfortable. The saddle does look a bit funny on him, maybe find a new one and trade in the old one (it could help you get a discount on the new one). 

I used to ride a horse named Cadet who bolted and when he did I would make him keep going and going until he tried to stop. Then, when he stopped I would make him keep going some more. After a couple times of doing this he got bored of bolting. If you want to give that a try or you're not comfortable doing that, maybe have someone else such as a trainer do it for you. 

In all honesty I would get rid of that tie down, find a new saddle, and work on the bolting. One step at a time. 

Last thing I wanted to say was in the picture with the lady in the red jacket he looks like he is smiling.

Oh, and purple is a great color on him!


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## Solo

OH and I was wondering what you plan on doing with him/what kind of riding you do


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## morganshow11

no suppliments, just natural (i love it to, thanks). yes, he is new. he turned 7 may,6,08. no, he did not come with that saddle i just recently bought it. well i chose him b/c when i was on him and i felt his trot and canter i felt that i belong on him, and he is worth about $20,000 but i traded him for my old horse. hehe thanks that was my mom. he was trained for gymkhana,carrige and jumping but, he is great all around and can to pretty much any disipline. and when i took the pic that looks like he's toed in, he was just moving his leg when i took the shot.


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## morganshow11

oh, and he was trained for saddleseat!


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## 1111aqua

Dont mean to sound harsh, so dont take this in a bad way. And it might just be me, but how in the world is he worth 20,000?!


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## morganshow11

well, im not tottaly sure but that is what the previous owner said, so...
well she said he does flying lead changes in the middle of a jump, and just does flying lead changes, rollbacks, 3rd level dressage, he is up there in saddleseat quite a ways. but really, dont yell at me (not that you are) that is what she said so take her word for it not mine.


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## 1111aqua

Well, even if thats so, 20k still seems like a high price for him.


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## NewHeart

I agree. 20K for a horse that bolts when you loosen your reins? No offense, but I think the old owners just really wanted to make a sale, lets hope that the horse that you traded was worth less then the one you gained. I am not trying to be mean, but really 20,000 is a lot of money, especially with the market being the way it is. 20K horses are usually champions are big money earners, that are hot in the market given their discipline. Not trying to be mean, just pointing it out. Good luck on working with him.


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## Underfire05

OK! You guys don't have to tear the poor girl apart! I'm not trying to offend anyone here but she's just trying to show off her horse and get some constructive criticism! 

NOW...I used to train morgans and saddlebreds, and if you say he was trained in saddleseat, then that bit and tie down has got to go! You can't expect him to really do any kind of "low down" headseat if he was trained to hold his head up for the SS shows. It seems that he is pulling away from it because you are holding him back form bolting, but that tie-down will hit him too and may make him try to get away from the pressure even more. I agree with the one's who said to go back to basics. You have to also realize though that not every problem can be fixed by you...everyone needs help sometime! 

Saddleseat horses, (morgans, s-bredds, etc) are slowly conditioned to hold their head that way. I have met plenty of horses that hold their head there natural, not because they are "made" to hold it there! Again, conformationally those type of horses are built very very different from QH's or TB's.I am not insulting any breeed, nor am I trying to start any useless breed/build/training way wars!

I see a horse who has a beautiful natural gait for the saddleseat sport, but he is very very tense. Yes, SS horses are capable of being higher strung, but that by no means has to mean they can't relax! My Park saddle mare used ot go trailriding, head down and jogging like a western horse. she knew how to relax. Again, just like other breeds, some bloodlines are known to be more hot, etc. 

1111aqua, saldy Morgans(well bred, trained, etc) are often pricey. yes, most are over-priced (personal opinion), but 20k isn't unusual nowadays even with only a little show experience. And, then again, she said she got him in trade. 

ok...blubbering there!

Anyways, I would def go back to the basics, even if it means not riding for a while! good groundwork, soft bits, and queing will help! I did a lot of long-lining and lunging with my horses. If he's already got a hard mouth, it will be harder to revert, but if it's just the bit or mouth contact, etc it will be work but easier (IMPO). 

Since, I know nothign about how your horse works, etc I would actually suggest getting advice from a trainer. Im not saying you need to ship him off spend thousands of dollars, but talk. I made a lot of connections just by introducing myself at shows! Most trainers actually enjoy talking about their techniques and giving suggestions! (since they all like beign right.lol)

so again, my suggestion is goback to bare minimum and work up. if you want him to do dressage, jumping,etc you will have to teach him how to work those other muscles in his body and develop a better topline and back muscles, etc. Dressage and saddleseat headseat just don't mix  If you want to do saddleseat, snaffle, snaffle snaffle! don't put a western curb into him! You only have pull power with his head up there! you can't connect to the horses mouth the way you need to. even if you pull one rrein, both sides feel pressure...see what i mean? 


im sorry if i offended anyone, but i see a very nice example of a saddleseat morgan. not finished or set up, but theres good potential! again, you need to figure out what you WANT to do with him 

Thanks!


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## 1111aqua

I understand that horses can be high priced, but obviously his training isnt as high as they were talking of if he bolts on a loose rein. Thats all im saying.


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## onetoomany

Yes he does have a naturally higher headset but what I see as the problem here is the bracing against her hands and the tie-down. Any saddleseat rider will tell you that the horse should carry the head higher yet still be collected and not bracing. Yes this horse does have a naturally higher head set but it ties in poorly, not smoothly as it would in a quality bred Morgan and while this may not entirely hinder him I do not believe it to be a good example of a natural head set. I completely agree with your opinion that 20K isn't unusual well bred Morgans, however, this does not look to be a well bred Morgan. In the market where I live a horse like this would go dirt cheap. I do not see a patricularaly well bred horse, to me he looks unrefined and fairly coarse.


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## Underfire05

1111aqua, i have to agree with you...but again i was not trying to defend her price either. No offense to anyone, but a lot o fpeople get suckered into getting a "20k" horse. Perhaps the trainer or past owner could ride the horse wonderfully and without any issues! who know? I had a horse who would throw everyone except me. 

onetoomany, I agree that he is not looking to be "well bred". But again, depending on what part of the coutnry you are in, and (not offending anyone!) depending on how much you know (or think you know) about horse breeds, lineage training, etc you may think you're getting an awesome deal when you're just getting a trainers leftover problem horse! It not rare...Since she traded for him I am hoping that she didn't give away a wodnerful perfect horse too! 

and yes i know where and how a saddleseat horse should hold his head...but i also said that this horse is not finished or refined! he has the up part...(i mentioned the bit and tracing to the tie-down!)but he has no relaxation and any other needed skills...right now.

liek i said , figure out what you want to do with the horse and then go from there. everyone can give you 50 kinds of advice all day, all for different things. start from the beginning ...yes...then what? saddleseat, jumping, dressage? decisions decisions decisions  every breed/discipline/area has different techniques...just gotta know what you want


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## NewHeart

I never said that he was unable to be any of these things, but 20K is a lot. The market it crap right now and that is the honest truth. Morgans, Arabs, QH's, etc. it's all crap. Horses that have not accomplished much, lack proper training, or have poor breeding, are not going for a lot, regardless of their breed. Or if they are asking a lot, the owners are delusional and asking too much. My neighbors are huge into Saddle Seat, their horses have the breeding, the conformation, and training to be 20K horses. Just because a horse is morgan and can do flying lead changes does not make them a 20K horse, period. Does that mean she does not have a good horse? No.I am not saying that Morganshow was probably misinformed. 

If Morganshow wants her horse to excel and be great, then more power to her. I am simply pointing out that 20k is unrealistic. Further more, there is a large difference in a high strong horse, and a horse that bolts. My old barrel horse was high strong, did she bolt when I dropped the reins? No. Clearly there are issues here that need to be worked on with training, in time I'm sure she can have a very nice horse to show with. 

If I come off as mean, I'm sorry. I look at things in a realistic perspective. In the horse world, I believe that is the only way to look at things. I'm not saying wanting your horse to achieve more is unrealistic, but the methods of getting there need to be. Otherwise, things are overlooked and problems arise (such as bolting). I'm sure if she keeps trying, she will have a great horse. Good luck!!


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## morganshow11

thank you, Underfire05, you are very kind!!!!!!


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## farmpony84

(I typed this reponse and realized I'm just on page 1 of 3 so forgive me if i repeat)

I'm not sure a tie down is what you need for him but for now, if it's working I'd raise it up on his nose a bit but I'm not sure if I'd loosen it or not because right now he's pulling against it and he may figure out that if he drops his head the pressure will ease.

One thing that will help you alot is to get off the rail. Don't hit the rail. Do small circles at the trot and even the canter, small circles and serpentines, lots of changes in direction. He'll slow down because you are always going to keep him geussing what you are going to do next. Ask for tons of halts and backs. Trot some circles for just 5 minutes or so and then halt, back and change directions. He'll learn really fast and you'll see alot of improvement. You'll also be able to loosen your reign preasure. don't canter for long periods of time, just a few strides and come back to the trot. try it for a week or so, you'll see improvement.

I think he's really cute, he looks young, is he? Are you doing this on your own or do you have a trainer helping you?


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## farmpony84

Ok... I went back and read the next few pages and I wanted to add that my TWH will bolt if the rider doesnt' have the right seat. Most people ride him w/ the reigns so tight his mouth is wide open to keep him from bolting. I ride him with ZERO reign contact at a walk, it's all in your seat. Especially if he has been trained to show saddleseat. What you are going to have to do is either get him to learn your seat or you are going to have to figure out his. Loosen up, don't ride him stiff.

I think he's darling. I wish you the best of luck. Don't let harsh critisms get you down. It's really easy to point out what someone is doing wrong, but not so easy to offer advice on how to fix things. Some of the girls really offered some good advice. You might want to start a thread looking for saddle seat riders or morgan owners so that you can find people familiar w/ his type of training to help guide you in the right direction...

He's cute.


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## morganshow11

awww, thank you farmpony84!!! he is 7years old. we do not have any GOOD trainers out here where im at, so its all me.


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## Solon

That is one uncomfortable looking horse. Wow. I'd seriously rethink the tack setup you have on him.


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## SkylarkandWinnie

I have to agree with others and say that you need to get that bit off, loosen your reins, and take away the tie down. If he reared, you riding like that would put you in a very dangerous situation, and he could very easily go over.
Bolting is something that take's a LONG time to work through and it can be scary but your doing more harm that good with that bit in. I use to think the same thing that a stronger bit was giving me more control, but it doesn't. Go back to a snaffle and work on seat and transitions, and getting him to listen. No cantering, minimal trotting, just lots of transitions in slower gaits.


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## morganshow11

how do i fit a saddle on a horse? like how do i know it too small or to big?


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## onetoomany

Fitting An English Saddle Here is a good basic, user-friendly article on how to properly fit an english saddle. If you are still uncertain about whether or not your saddle is fitting I would recommend finding a saddle maker/fitter in your area and they can usually help you and give you an in-depth analysis.


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## I Love Lane

NewHeart said:


> I never said that he was unable to be any of these things, but 20K is a lot. The market it crap right now and that is the honest truth. Morgans, Arabs, QH's, etc. it's all crap. Horses that have not accomplished much, lack proper training, or have poor breeding, are not going for a lot, regardless of their breed. Or if they are asking a lot, the owners are delusional and asking too much. My neighbors are huge into Saddle Seat, their horses have the breeding, the conformation, and training to be 20K horses. Just because a horse is morgan and can do flying lead changes does not make them a 20K horse, period. Does that mean she does not have a good horse? No.I am not saying that Morganshow was probably misinformed.
> 
> If Morganshow wants her horse to excel and be great, then more power to her. I am simply pointing out that 20k is unrealistic. Further more, there is a large difference in a high strong horse, and a horse that bolts. My old barrel horse was high strong, did she bolt when I dropped the reins? No. Clearly there are issues here that need to be worked on with training, in time I'm sure she can have a very nice horse to show with.
> 
> If I come off as mean, I'm sorry. I look at things in a realistic perspective. In the horse world, I believe that is the only way to look at things. I'm not saying wanting your horse to achieve more is unrealistic, but the methods of getting there need to be. Otherwise, things are overlooked and problems arise (such as bolting). I'm sure if she keeps trying, she will have a great horse. Good luck!!


well said. You make a very valid point and i am sure that everyone will understand that you are just pointing out the facts and not trying to upset anyone.:wink:

Onetoomany - your advice on page 1 of this tread was spot on! :lol:The only other ting that i would say is that the horse appears to be Sickle Hocked - no training that you could do will ever fix that problem. He will always be weak in the back end if he tracks incorrectly no matter what you do. 

Maybe you should talk to some dressage trainers in your area Morgan11 and take him for a weekly lesson (you said there were no SS trainers around and i struggle to believe that as you said that you got him from a SS person). If he is as highly trained as you have been told then you need to learn how to ride him properly. Good luck with it - hope it works out for you.


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## morganshow11

k thanks, everyone fro your advice;0


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## Solon

I'd recommend trying to work with someone familiar with tack. Doesn't necessarily have to be a trainer but that would help. You could get the right fit. Your saddle looks like it's way too forward - and if it is, some of the issues could be from that discomfort. 

If you've got bolting issues, start back at ground zero. And if there is anyway you can get someone with experience to help you, even better.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

Take away the tie down, put him in a snaffle, work with him from the ground up. If he is tense on the ground and not listening to you, then that is how he is going to be in the saddle. Get a perfessional to help you fit the proper tack to him, and maybe take some lessons. I have a friend that wanted me to ride her Tennessee Walker gelding in a tie down (he has a high head set since he was shown as a stallion) since she wanted him to be like her other walker with a lower headset. I refused and had the tiedown removed. They need to be allowed freedom of movement. I think that your gelding would be much more comfortable if you got the tie down off and a different bit. Remember to keep your heels down, eyes forward, hands down (not puppy pawed) and RELAX. If you are chill, your horse will be chill. 

Peace


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## cowgirlfitzy

I just wanted to help you out and give you some advice about the bolting. i think everyone has already got way way into everything. Try not to take everything to heart. I'm sure no one is trying to hurt your feelings, just trying to help. Back to the bolting, you have to let him commit to the mistake. holding him back won't fix it. I think it was farmpony??? not sure said to do lots of stoping and backing and someone else said to run them til they don't want to run anymore. Those are both good things you could try but the stoping will probably work better with a hot horse. The running could just make him stonger and hotter! If you want some added control instead of the tie down try a running martingale. I hope this was helpful. Best luck to you guys!


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## cowgirlfitzy

Oh and Transitions and pattern work (circles, serpentines) are your best friend!


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## morganshow11

thanks for your inputs everyone. it is really helpin!!!~!


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## cowgirlfitzy

Glad to hear it!


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## RedHawk

I haven't read through what everyone else has said, but i agree in that a snaffle would be better for him, and if you can't ride him on a loose rein without him bolting, i would suggest doing A LOT of one-rein stops.
I have a young TB who can be nervy and quite forward when he wants to be, and the one-rein stop has done wonders for him!


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## morganshow11

ok! i will try that


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## zanytactics

Im taking into effect the weather. Obviously it's rather chilli where you are, and with that much snow I can see where a semi hot horse might turn into a really hot horse. Even then I do agree with the others.

Try and back up, do some ground work, build a good solid relationship with your horse, and loose the tie down and that style of bit. Oh yeah and try not to go with the snaffles with a shank, very bad idea, it will be worse then what you have on now. If you do switch try using an english snaffle (loose ring, eggbutt, d). I would also do some stretching excerises and lots of transistions but using your body, not your hands. There's got to be someone around you that has experience working with young horses that can help you?

Hang in there. Post new photos after you have a chance to really put some good work in him when there's not as much snow on the ground.


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## morganshow11

ok thank you! i will keep updated. im prolly goin out to ride on saturady so, i'll get some then


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## qtina626

morganshow11 said:


> i can not loosen my reins b/c i have to have a constent grip on them or he will bolt. ive tried a snaffle and it is worse;( im thinking about getting a hackamore though. he is not green its just that his temperment is ,9 so that were the purebred comes in. and that is his head set regardles or where my hands are.



I am wondering what you mean by you cannot loosen your reins and have to have a constant grip or he will bolt - do you mean he runs off with you all the time, or does he spook?

Quite often horses who are spooky are horses who are uncomfortable. Also, if you are getting nervous because he is bolting on you, I am sure you are getting a little tense when you ride him. You might need to go back to just doing a lot of walk work to get him to really listen to you and increase your trust in each other.

I do agree that it looks like the saddle is not a great fit. I would also consider doing something about the bit and the tie-down as it seems to be making your horse uncomfortable which could be contributing too - rather than "fixing" the problem.

I am sorry that you came on here to get some help and ideas and instead met up with so much "unconstructive" criticism. I think that it would be wise for some people to realize that they once were the person who didn't know "everything" and had to ask for help from someone who already knew the answer.


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## morganshow11

does anyone have any ground critiques for him?


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## eventnwithwinston

I'm going to leave the critiquing to everyone else. Everyone has pretty mnuch said it all...

Your saddle is too small for you though...


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## xpyrrohs

I agree with everyone.
How long have you been riding? Because if you are a new, less experienced rider, I would definitely think about getting a different horse. Bolting is something that a less experienced rider may not handle well and teach the horse that it is O.K. to bolt... and its not! My advice, other than that, is to ditch the tie-down, harsh bit and just go for a stroll in the arena... no working, just walk around a few times on a loose rein, and if he's being a good boy(no bolting/rearing/bucking), hop off and then you're done. 
He may associate riding with pain/fear/WORK and it could be causing him to bolt because he is afraid or just not happy with what he's doing. If you take the time to just RELAX on him, he will relax too! My first horse bolted with me about 3 times when I first got him(in one ride - the ride where it was decided he would be my first horse xD) and he was a green-broke 14y/o that had not been ridden in 4 years. I was scared ****less of him for a long time(I was also a 13 y/o who had ridden lesson horses for three years), but I worked with him on the ground and built up a relationship. the only time he bolts now is when a scary monster(usually a cat) jumps out and attacks him(from about 50yds away xD).
Have you tried the "7 games" with him? I'm doing that with my new horse... but his problem is that he won't go fast enough xD silly OTTB. But i've heard it helps alot, especially when teaching them to move away from pressure and knowing who's boss(which is YOU!).
And I would definantly lounge before getting on - especially when going on a lose rein and just chillin'. I have to lounge Pyro(my new poneh) before I get on because he doesn't listen if I don't... He gets really spacey and harder to work with(short attention span, just like me xD).
If you don't want to ride on a loose rein, I suggest just walking him around in the arena with the saddle and bridle on and not riding at all. and slowley move up to riding on a lose rein. If you don't think you can do it, get someone else to ride him for you... or someone to lead him around while you chill in the saddle. Pet him, give him lovin's, praise him and make a big fuss over EVERYTHING, i repeat, EVERYTHING he does right. He's only 7? He's still practicly a baby in his head and if you don't let him know what he's doing right RIGHT when he does it, he won't know that he's doing something good. Going back to basic's is good, its a better foundation for riding as well as your relationship 

And don't take any of these posts as BAD, be thankful that people care enough about the horse and his well being, as well as yours. Don't put on a pitty party because someone said something "bad" about you or your horse, take in EVERY BIT OF INFORMATION about horses and riding as you can. Take the advice to heart and LISTEN to them, don't stick up your nose because its not what you want to hear or its not "sugar coated".


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## Joshie

morganshow11 said:


> i can not loosen my reins b/c i have to have a constent grip on them or he will bolt. ive tried a snaffle and it is worse;( im thinking about getting a hackamore though. he is not green its just that his temperment is ,9 so that were the purebred comes in. and that is his head set regardles or where my hands are.


You need to start working with this horse on the ground. You look very young to me. My daughter is 11 and you appear to be around her age. I think you said somewhere that you're 12, right? 

You're hurting that horse's mouth. If you hurt him he's not going to behave better, this behavior is going to get worse. If that horse is bolting when you ride then you shouldn't be riding. 

I think you need to start at the beginning with ground work. You need to work with a very good trainer. I'd suggest making friends with the horse and earning this horse's respect. I just don't think that he's going to make a good youth horse. If you continue to put so much pressure on his mouth this problem is almost certainly going to become worse. 

This horse looks a bit mean and quite sad around the eye.


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## morganshow11

I have heard alot of you say that the bit is hurting his mouth, i have changed to a hackamore. The BO said his wolf teeth have never been pulled out, so i will have to do that. I have been doing plenty of ground work and clippy is to where he does not bolt and i can ride him on a loose rein


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## morganshow11

I would lik too ad that clippy is the sweetest horse i have ever had/met.


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## RedRoan

> I have heard alot of you say that the bit is hurting his mouth, i have changed to a hackamore. The BO said his wolf teeth have never been pulled out, so i will have to do that. I have been doing plenty of ground work and clippy is to where he does not bolt and i can ride him on a loose rein


Is he actually bolting? or is he just moving out a lot faster when you loosen your rein? My horse used to do the 'when I loosen a rein he speeds up' sort of thing when I first got him. I had to teach him to listen to my seat for the speed that I would like him to go, and a year later he was like a whole different horse.


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## carriedenaee

for groundwork ideas, i just went to google and typed in creative groundwork ideas and there are several sites that give free info. Also a library may have some books on it! I love your horse though he is beautiful. I have a couple of hot horses myself and groundwork helps more with your communication with him as well. No metter how good you get together through the years, always do groundwork! the more i do the more me and my horses connect!


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## JustDressageIt

What kind of hack? Depending on the type, a hack can be worse ...


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## onetoomany

From the sounds of it (from other threads) she uses a mechanical. Oh so wonderful.


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## JustDressageIt

onetoomany said:


> From the sounds of it (from other threads) she uses a mechanical. Oh so wonderful.


Yeeek!!


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## morganshow11

RedRoan said:


> Is he actually bolting? or is he just moving out a lot faster when you loosen your rein? My horse used to do the 'when I loosen a rein he speeds up' sort of thing when I first got him. I had to teach him to listen to my seat for the speed that I would like him to go, and a year later he was like a whole different horse.


 Yeah not an actual gallop bolt, just like a canter. But i have resolved that.


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## morganshow11

JustDressageIt said:


> Yeeek!!


Why, Yeeek?


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## onetoomany

The length of the shanks on the mechanical hackamore greatly multiplies the actual pressure you put on the reins. It exerts a lot of pressure on the bridge of the nose and the poll. With a horse that pulls or with a person that has unforgiving hands the mechanical hack can be extremely harsh.


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## Jillyann

Loosen your tie down and get a larger saddle.


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## mls

morganshow11 said:


> I would lik too ad that clippy is the sweetest horse i have ever had/met.


Many horses have one personality when handled from the ground and a very different one when a rider is up.

If you are in his face, riding up on his neck, etc - he won't be sweet for long. He will start to resent being ridden.


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## eventerdrew

onetoomany said:


> Well you need to loosen that tie down for starters as he is completely bracing himself against it. You also need to move it up about 4" as it is sitting way too low on his nose. You also look like you are riding with too much contact with that bit and hanging on his mouth. I would suggest switching to a snaffle, especially if he is a greener horse. You also need to correct your "puppy paw" hands and thread the rein up over your pinkie under your three fingers and over your thumb. Riding with "puppy paws" often create harsh hands. You also tend to look down, you need to look up and this will straighten up your back. Your leg should be a bit more back and more in-line with the rest of your body. Your toes should be pointing straight forward, not slanting outward. With your toes slanting outwards you heel is constantly on your horse. You also need to get the stirrup more onto the ball of your foot as your stirrup is resting too far back. With the stirrup resting so far back you cannot stretch down your heel to really settle your weight in your saddle.
> 
> Your horse appears very base narrow in the front end. He also appeard to toe out in all four feet, especially the backs. He seems to have a weak topline, which could be remedied if you got him collected and got him to stop bracing with his head up. He seems to be camped out in the hind end but that could just be the pictures. He is also camped under in the front end but again, that could just be the pictures or the way he is standing. He also has a very straight shoulder with a neck that ties in very high. I would think he would look better and tie in smoother all around with proper muscling.


ditto. esp. about the tied down and the legs. something looks very off in the back legs


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## jumpwhat007

Ok. I will give you, nice, constructive criticism. The tie down has to go, and so does the bit. The bit you are using is meant to be used on a loose rein. Try a snaffle, maybe a french link. The reason he may be bolting is because the bit is so harsh on his mouth. I would stay away from a Hackamore though if he has a bolting problem, as you will have less control. Your feet are too far in the stirrups, put them on the ball of your foot and bring your heels down, cause it will increase you balance in case he does bolt. 

You should be wearing gloves, not mittens, and your hands should be facing thumb up, with the last finger on your reins being the one before the pinky, which is the strongest. Shoulders back, and stay relaxed. You look very stiff, and your horse feels your tension, another reason he may be so nervous. 

My honest opinion, not to be mean, but for your safety, is to find another horse. I know you may be attatched to this one, but for your experience level, a calmer, more experienced horse would be best for you. 

Good Luck


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## jumpwhat007

Oh and to add, the wolf teeth could be a HUGE part of him hating the bit. Every time you pull on his reins, the bit hits up against his wolf teeth, making them hurt. So call the vet out and have him knock out his wolf teeth, then give him 2 days off and try him again with a less harsh bit.


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## morganshow11

^^ Yeah that is what i was thinking, that his wolf teeth have not been pulled out yet. The vet is coming around at the end of the month.


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## jumpwhat007

^Ok I would prob just lunge him daily until he gets those pulled because any bit will just make him even more crabby. Or, you can use a hackamore, just not a mechanical, because its more harsh. If you could find one like this: 

http://www.galadriel.shaftnet.org/horses/duchess/jumping-hackamore.jpeg

That would be ideal. Good luck with Clippy.


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## EternalSun

I may be repeating what other have said because I didn't read through all the posts, so if I am, sorry. Here's my critique:

First of all, although the saddle looks like it doesn't have the greatest fit, it's also to far forward. Ditch the tie down. Contrary to popular belief, tie downs are NOT meant to be used to keep a horse's head down. Their sole purpose is to create a brace for horses to lean on to keep their balance while competing in speed events. They should not be used for any other reason. And finally, if you are more comfortable riding with two hands, you need to use a snaffle bit. Shank bits are not made to be used with direct contact, in fact by doing so, the bit does not work properly or as it should. If you feel you need a little more control, use a broken mouth kimberwicke. 

I agree with many people on here. Regardless of whether or not your horse is "hot", it all comes down to training. Bits, tie downs, or any other gadgets do not solve problems. Period. Good training fixes problems. If you have trouble controlling your horse, find a knowlegeable trainer. I'm a barrel racer, and my horse is "hot". I ride him in an eggbutt snaffle. I'm not trying to preach or put you down here, because it took many years of consistant training to get my horse the way he is. Good luck with your horse, I hope it works out for you, and I think it's great that you came on the board looking for help and honest critique.


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## morganshow11

Thanks for the critiques everyone!
JumpWhat007- I am able to ride Clippy on a loose rein with a mechanical Hackmore. But i will def. try the one that you showed me


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## JMMarroq

I think everyone covered it, but you should try shortening your sturrips, because your leg position is way to far behind you and your heels need to be pushed down.

Also, that bit has a shank and when you hold it back like that it REALLY hurts your horse's mouth...it's meant to be used with a pretty lose rein so when you pull back a little with a lose rein the horse will know to stop. 

I am not saying you need to switch to a snaffle, because he does seem like a hot horse and a snaffle may not be right for him, but you should deffinetly talk to a horse trainer or a respectable horse person to see what kind of bits you should try. You are currently NOT using that bit correctly, just because he bolts doesn't mean a harsh bit should be used to cure it. Correct training fixes bolting.


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## SmmerFun

Well, i cant say anything to say bad bout him! But he is the most prettyest horse i think i have ever seen! 

He is defenetly a keeper (lolz)


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## SmmerFun

love him!!!!


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## BuckOff41570

Haha...Clippy. I like his name.


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## JustDressageIt

Since you asked nicely...
A mechanical hack can be very very very harsh in strong, unforgiving hands. Since you are hard-handed, a mechanical hack will probably hurt Clippy.


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## SmmerFun

i love thoes pics there awsome


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## morganshow11

Thank you SmmerFun !


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## manhirwen

Ok So I haven't read all the posts... I think I'm on page 5 but the ONE thing I noticed that wasn't mentioned so far was that the girth seems to be pulled forward by the tie down putting the saddle and his head in an awkward position. If I'm wrong let me know but I just think it looks odd.

Other than that I have nothing else to say but that he's a cutie.


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## SmmerFun

You can call me Isabell, i new so i dont know your name . but i love ur horse! he is beautiful!!


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## SmmerFun

OH, and my ueser name is supos to be SummerFun, but i forgot the u! im so dumb. (LOLZ)!!


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## jumpwhat007

Just make sure if you use the mechanical, you reins are VERY loose. It would only be useful if he knows how to neck rein. Mechanicals aren't meant to be used with any mouth contact.


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## Twilight Arabians

He looks like a really nice horse! in my opinion you should really go back to ground work, With his head up so high it triggers adrenalin witch is what makes him want to run and brace against you, You need to get him working really good on the lunge with his head down, if there head is down level with there body it will triggers _endorphins_ witch will keep him calm, maybe work him on the ground this side reins and just work on getting him relaxed, once he is nice and relaxed on the ground then you should ride him, i say this because i used to have a horse just like him, she had been used in hunter hack, she would get so stressed being ridden she would put her head up so high it would just about hit you in the face, i had to re-start her from the ground up, took me about a month working 3-5 times a week on her and by the end of the month she looked like a WP horse not some high strong arabian show horse. I know its hard when you really really just want to ride but you need to do whats best for him.


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