# This is so sad =(



## silent storm (Feb 20, 2011)

that's horrible! gr i hate stablechase


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

This is very sad news, I personally do not like Steeplechase but this is just my opinion and in reality this event will most likely be held again next year.


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

Those are stunning and horrifying pictures. Poor horses


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

OMG poor horses!


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I dont think any jumps should be lowered as if you watch it is very rarely the jumps causing an issue its the huge overcrowding at fences that causes the danger if the field nuimber was reduced to even 30 the risk of injury would be substantially lower


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## Can He Star (Mar 9, 2011)

omg how awful. horses shouldnt jump at a gallop its dangerous and the result is devasting. this proves that horses do get injured in steeplchase and in this case die. im not a fan at all!!!!!


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## Can He Star (Mar 9, 2011)

those photos are sooooooooo sad . makes me want to cry


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## HopalongCassidy (Dec 19, 2010)

That makes me sick the way people put there animal through this.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Those poor horses and I would say jocks, but they can choose to ride or not. There are risks & dangers for horse & rider in so many equine sports, but Steeplechase is just over the top IMO. Regardless of horse & rider capability that large of a field is just asking for exactly what happened. Even though it has become more popular here in the us in the last several years and has even had some televised exposure, steeplechase is one equine sport that I can't support or watch and feel right about for the exact reason shown in those photos.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Steeplechase is a very big sport here and has a huge attraction. 
I dont think at any rate it hasto be stopped this race is jsut so famous that it has a larger outroar then any other form of horse competition where deaths are likely. Even if field size was reduced to 30 would reduce injuries.
Each of the horses qualified for this race so the jumping and distance isnt an issue its then field size


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

Why do they leave the bodies there???


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

I watched a brief clip on youtube that showed two loose horses jumping rails with out riders, veering towards the stands and a third riderless horse following behind.... jumping..... this race looks rough!!


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## jdw (Mar 17, 2011)

Couldn't have said it better MHFQ; The sad thing is as long as (animals) promote business and make money doing something, they will be used to any extent, no matter how inhumane. There are MANY practices that are horrible that go on everyday that we never see~this is just one of them we do. God Bless those poor horses. (I cannot imagine their suffering)


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## live2ride8 (Mar 13, 2011)

Thats horrible.. this is why I hate racing!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I think steeplechasing is fantastic. It is very demanding and tough, and yes, both horses and jockeys get hurt and sometimes die. I believe the GN full course is run 5 times a year, but I'm not certain.

It would be interesting to know if smaller fields have lower injury rates. If so, limiting the field might help. But with the huge prize and prestige of the Grand National, horses will always be pushed hard...or allowed to push themselves hard. I don't think you can MAKE a horse run the course hard.

Modern society has become fixated on safety and avoiding risk. 22 states and almost 200 municipalities in the U.S. have mandatory helmet laws for bicycle riders. In Arizona, five communities (Tucson, Yuma, Sierra Vista, Flagstaff and Pima County) have mandatory helmet laws for children under 18. New Mexico, Oregon, and California have statewide bicycle helmet laws for children. Heaven forbid a child wreck his bike without having his helmet on! Darned if I know how I survived my childhood, jumping off of roofs with pillowcase parachutes and trying it (once) on a bicycle! And don't even think about the times my sister and I slept in the back of the station wagon, which didn't even have seatbelts, while our parents drove.

Any jumping very significantly increases the risk of serious injury to the rider, if not the horse - on the order of a 20-80 fold increase in risk. And that is with a helmet. Put me down as an old fogey who is tired of a risk-free society. If folks want to jump horses, let them learn the risks and decide. As for the horses - they exist as a luxury in modern society. They won't exist at all unless someone has a reason to own and ride one.

I suspect the number of horses put down for preventable cases of laminitis probably greatly exceed all the horses killed in steeplechase racing. The horses shipped from Arizona to Mexico for slaughter sure do. I'm not happy about horses dying, but they die all the time - just not in front of spectators, or on TV.


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

That kind of thing makes me so mad. Unfortunately there is not much you can do about it other than boycotting those types of events or even a peaceful protest. 
There is an event here in Canada called the Calgary Stampede where last year 6 horses died. Alot of my friends intend to go the stampede this year because it is a huge party in Calgary. Whenever someone asks me if I'm going I tell them no way and why not. 
I am considering joining a protest this year... though it is a 6 hour drive and I'll have to burn some of my work leave to go.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

It's dangerous like every sport out there. Looks like a jockey got pretty seriously injured according to that article as well. So it's not just the horses it's a danger to. Things go wrong in every horse sport out there, you can't just stop something cause it's dangerous. I'd understand stopping it if it were _somehow_ only dangerous to the horse and not the rider, which I can't name any horse sport out there that doesn't pose a risk to both the horse and rider. 

Horses like to run, and horses don't see death the same way people do. Animals do not fear death like humans do.


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

Katesrider011 said:


> Horses like to run, and horses don't see death the same way people do. Animals do not fear death like humans do.


Right.... Horses love to gallop around like mad, jumping over huge obstacles, and trample each other... Everyone knows Wild horses do that sort of thing all the time....
Horses most definitely do fear death. They are prey animals. Their emotions are fear based. Why do you think sudden movements shadows etc. spook them? Horses need to be socialized and trained to overlook those things. 
What you may think is a love of running is most likely a fear response. There is a reason most carriage horses wear blinders so they can't see what is behind them. So they don't spook and run. There is a reason most race horses don't wear blinders, so they will see the other horses rushing up behind them,. So their fear will drive them to run faster.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

lovesmyhawse said:


> Right.... Horses love to gallop around like mad, jumping over huge obstacles, and trample each other... Everyone knows Wild horses do that sort of thing all the time....
> Horses most definitely do fear death. They are prey animals. Their emotions are fear based. Why do you think sudden movements shadows etc. spook them? Horses need to be socialized and trained to overlook those things.
> What you may think is a love of running is most likely a fear response. There is a reason most carriage horses wear blinders so they can't see what is behind them. So they don't spook and run. There is a reason most race horses don't wear blinders, so they will see the other horses rushing up behind them,. So their fear will drive them to run faster.


They fear the big monster chasing them, not the death itself. Yes it'll do things to stay alive, but death isn't feared by them. Again, they don't think of death like we do. 

And to add, my horse will run around the pasture a lot, without reason. She just does.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

lovesmyhawse said:


> Right.... Horses love to gallop around like mad, jumping over huge obstacles, and trample each other... Everyone knows Wild horses do that sort of thing all the time....


It isn't uncommon for steeplechase horses who have lost their riders to continue running the course, hitting every jump. It is a learned activity, but according to the jockeys I've read, a competitive horse will love it. If they don't love it, they won't go fast enough to be in more than a few races.

You don't MAKE a horse run at 99% effort, and anything less will finish last. **** Francis wrote of a horse he used to ride that was variable. On some days, he wanted to run and would finish first. On other days...the jockey would be blamed when the reality was the horse wasn't in the mood to give his all.


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

Have you ever been on a roller coaster? It's scary as heck, but fun right?... Race horses may be feeling a similar experience. Does this justify those animals' deaths??


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

lovesmyhawse said:


> Have you ever been on a roller coaster? It's scary as heck, but fun right?... Race horses may be feeling a similar experience. Does this justify those animals' deaths??


If they were having fun doing it. Would you rather live a short fun life, or a long boring life? I'm pretty sure those horses are treated pretty **** good in their lifetime. What more could you ask for?


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

I understand that every sport has it's inherent risks, but steeplechasing has always seemed a bit iffy for me.

Let's think of it this way, though: Most sports, done correctly, are at least partially safe. Steeplechasing done correctly is mostly dangerous. That many horses running full speed towards a huge jump is just NOT a good idea in ANY way. 

BSMS. We have those safety laws for a reason. 

Requirements for bicycle helments? What hogwash! I rode without one ALL THE TIME! 

It is PROVEN that a helmet in a fall can mean life or death. A young person living the rest of their life as a vegetable or someone coming out of an accident with only a minor concussion. 

Car seat belts? I've heard that in some cases, it is MORE dangerous to have one on!

Again, it has been PROVEN over and over again that seat belts save lives. The one or two cases that it's safer not to? Car companies spend so much money on safety features and bragging about them for a reason.

A helmet for horseback riding? Unfashionable! How dare the government tell ME what to do?

Read about Coutney Dye, an Olympic dressage rider who has just recovered from a coma because she fell off _and didn't have her helmet on._

I agree that in some ways we are a society that coddles too much. But some things are just for our own safety. 

I believe there is no reason to go LOOKING for trouble. Suck it up and partcipate in the proper safety measures. Perhaps one day you will be thankful when you have joined the tons of others who have had a doctor say to them: "If you hadn't been _____, you would be dead right now." I'm not trying to be mean or rude, but let's be a bit logical here.

/Rant.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

lovesmyhawse said:


> ...Does this justify those animals' deaths??


It might justify their lives. They aren't bred or kept as lawn ornaments.

Lots of horses enjoy jumping. Lots of them enjoy outrunning other horses. You can try to breed for it and encourage it, but without that drive and excitement coming from within the horse, you have a nag.

I'd rather be a steeplechase horse taking chances than some of the corral ornaments I drive by here in southern AZ...


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

bsms said:


> It might justify their lives. They aren't bred or kept as lawn ornaments.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Wow...... Well I've been told... I had no idea you were such a compassionate person...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Cinder said:


> ...BSMS. We have those safety laws for a reason.
> 
> Requirements for bicycle helments? What hogwash! I rode without one ALL THE TIME!
> 
> ...


< rant > Wearing a helmet riding cuts your risk by 50%. Jumping increases your risk anywhere from 2000-8000%, even after putting a helmet on. Ban jumping "for the children"! Ban jumping "for safety's sake!" Ban jumping to "be a bit logical here"!

Riding a horse is statistically much riskier than riding motorcycles. Ban riding horses!

Who are you or a bunch of government idiots (who have never seen a horse outside of TV) to tell others what is an acceptable risk? The government officials in Pima County hate horses - dirty, make poop, and totally unneeded in modern society. Are they right? Should they get to impose their views on others?

What about trail riding? It is very rocky where I live. ANY fall could kill me, or cripple me for life, with or without a helmet. Should it be banned to protect me from myself?

I'll worry about my safety, and the safety of my horses. I'll decide what is acceptable risk. I don't need a bunch of fear filled wussies trying to run my life for me.

Steeplechase has risks for both riders and horses. Both seem to love what they are doing. Let them run. And jump. And sometimes pay the price for being alive. Because those horses wouldn't even be born without a purpose for them to fulfill. It beats being a lawn ornament. < / rant >


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

lovesmyhawse said:


> ...I had no idea you were such a compassionate person...


Why do you think people breed steeplechase horses? To look at? For pets? So they will whinny when fed a carrot, and the owner can feel loved by his horse? As a 1200 lb dog?

Or to run, and jump, and for excitement?


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

The issue is not trail riding or jumping. Obviously there are inherent risks associated with these activities.... and the risks are much, much lower than with steeplechase. I don't believe any body mentioned anything about banning all activities that carry a risk. 
Steeple chasing is a different beast altogether.... It is the pace of this particular sport coupled with the large field of competitors that sets it apart.... It does'nt necessarily need to be banned, however different regulations could make this sport more humane.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

They could at least take out the jump that seems to be causing all of the problems in that race. Or like others have said lower the amount of horses participating. They could even let one half race first then the other half second.


Horses have died nearly every year in this one race! It is terrible! They have to gallop for 4 miles and jump huge jumps! How is that right? My mother even thinks it is cruel and she doesn't like horses.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Not my cup of tea, but then again- neither is horse jumping and a few other equine sports.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

so very sad


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

The Grand National is the biggest race in the UK, people who don't typically gamble have a bet on the Grand National. Most years a horse dies in the race, but it's not going away any time soon.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am just sick to my stomach looking at those pictures. How horrifying. Cannot stand it!


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

There are many equine sports/activities that fall_ in between_ the extremes of "lawn ornament" & Steeplechasing, so Steeplechasing is at the _extreme_ side of risk.

Some (high-testosterone?) people are in agreement with bsms that Steeplechasing needs no modifications for the sakes of the horses, & the rest of us want modification all the way down to elimination of the sport entirely.

It's a matter of where one draws the line.

For myself, I can't look at horses as a "luxury" in today's mechanized society, which excuses us to expose them to the extremes of Steeplechasing as it now stands & has now brought about the deaths of two more horses. 

So, I'm for modification to some degree. Same with solid CC jumps: why risk death to your horse & yourself over a silly competition?

On the other hand, I let my small dog run off into the bush chasing coyotes & risking snakebite, because I do feel that, since it's so much fun for him, that a short, fun life is better than a long, boring one.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

If anyone wants to see the race

RT Player: Catch up with your favourite TV programmes online

Go to 1 hour 22 minutes to see the start of the race. This made me even sadder =( You don't really see the falls badly but when they come back around to the same jumps they have to bypass them and you can see the horses covered =( They died so quickly too. which can be good but it makes me feel terrible. The first one fell at the fourth fence and the second fell two fences later. At that one you can see the horse clearly cannot get up =(


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*The Grand National*

I would be more appreciative of the spectacular of the world’s toughest horse race if the publicists and the participants were more honest in describing what this annual race is really all about. 

The race is not a sport, it is more a gladiatorial contest, in which the winning horse survives and the jockey manages not to fall off and be trampled. The onlookers aren’t horsey people, rather they are dressed up party goers and punters, out for a day of excitement and a good gamble. This sector of the horse racing ‘industry’ has more in common with motor racing than it ever has with the sport of horse riding. Most of the watchers can’t tell the difference between a mare and a gelding and they select their choice of winner by a personal association with the name of the horse or even a simple pin. Without the presence of the bookie and the seemingly limitless cases of champagne in the hospitality suites, they would have no reason to attend the meeting, which is virtually a national holiday for the Irish who breed most of the horses, supply most of the jockeys and are usually the winners of the big race of the day.

The race will not be stopped nor even significantly changed and certainly not for the benefit of the horse. There is simply too much vested interest in what is now a multi million pound knees up. The punters love the excitement and the Government rakes in the taxes. 

As for the possible death of race horses, well to the organisers they represent mere grains of sand to be found on any beach. This year in addition to the two horses being put down, the winning horse reached the post in such a severely dehydrated state that the jockey relented, dismounted and walked to the winner’s enclosure. Along with the female jockey of the runner up of the previous race, he was officially penalised for excessive whipping.

You might be surprised to learn that the race wasn’t invented by Nero.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

> The race is not a sport, it is more a gladiatorial contest, in which the winning horse survives and the jockey manages not to fall off and be trampled.


Ain't that the truth, I wish the horses life was more valued than just "well if they die, it means they weren't good enough".


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Yup it is all about the money. If those people cared about their horses then they would not enter them in such horrible races. I know one of the owners Alex ferguson is NOT a horse person at all. He owns the horse to win money.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

That's so sad . Unfortunately, it's not going to go away. It's way to popular. I agree with what someone stated earlier about running one half of the field and then the other half. I believe the horses like to run and jump, why can't we make it just a little safer for them?


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

> < rant > Wearing a helmet riding cuts your risk by 50%. Jumping increases your risk anywhere from 2000-8000%, even after putting a helmet on. Ban jumping "for the children"! Ban jumping "for safety's sake!" Ban jumping to "be a bit logical here"!
> 
> Riding a horse is statistically much riskier than riding motorcycles. Ban riding horses!
> 
> ...




:twisted:.

Do you see as many horses and riders being injured in jumping or almost any Equine sport as there is in steeplechasing?

I certainly haven't!

Don't try to argue the helmet point. THERE ARE _DOZENS _of studies out there about it. 

This is kind of like saying "There should be no speed limit, people in their neighbourhoods should just choose what's safest". Perhaps a handful of people would drive responsibly. Personally I know even my family would drive as fast as they **** well pleased!

But is that safe? NO. Is that safe for the people around you? NO!

EVERYTHING is dangerous when you think about it. The point is minimizing this danger.

If you decide to ride over the worst ground available...or jump without a helmet...will you say it's the governments fault if you get hurt? And for what?! Being rebellious? Just don't fight against the laws themselves so that some young kid who doesn't know any better says: "Oh look, a grownup's doing this, I guess I should do it too!"

There is a POINT to these things. They're not to make you mad or to impose on your freedom. 
​


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Wait a sec: they have HOSPITALITY SUITES at the Steeplechase?! LOVE it!

I'm being facetious: I always thought that the term was the cheeziest thing ever! LOL!

It's good that the winner got penalized for whipping his horse too much! Now, I wonder where they draw the line there: half a dozen, an even dozen, or what?


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

I used to think horse racing and steeple chasing were the cruelest things someone could do to a horse apart from physical abuse. One day, I took a look at it from all angles.

Studies have shown that injuries in horse racing decrease about 50% when the dirt is really really soft. But that's boring to watch, no? Horses slowly trying their best to gallop out of the sand? Yeah, I wouldn't watch the derby any day. But that's random. There are lots of reasonable things that could make both those sports better. Not letting 2 and 3 year olds race, decreasing participants in steeple chasing...But that's NOT HAPPENING. Why? Because it seems like everyone who feels passionate enough to want these horses to be treated well is fighting for the end of the sport. Give it up. A century's (millenium's actually!) old sport is not going away any time soon if ever. If you want betterment of horses, go to the Philippines and stop stallion fighting. Open a rescue shelter. Anything, but not that. Help us improve the sport, don't ask for the end of it. (Not to mention all the horses that would be sent to slaughter because they no longer had jobs! Don't pretend every single one would be adopted. That's ludicrous.) 

I'm sorry if I seem like I'm insulting anyone. I'm not trying to. I'm just kind of angry about this subject and ranting about it.

ETA: Yes, the death of those horses is unfortunate. They should not have had to feel that pain and their deaths may have been able to be prevented if there were more safe regulations. No, their deaths do not shock me.


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

Tymer, I agree with you there, unfortunately.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

The Grandnational is the biggest race over here , everyone bets on a horse its like a tradition. 

The fact is that it will not stop anytime soon and probably never will , its been going since before all of us were born.
The majority of the people there do not care about the horses , its all about the money . Have you seen the spectators ? there a bunch of rich T*rts that could tell a horse from a donkey.

Two horses died yesterday , sure it will be talked about and people will say its cruel but it will all blow over and it will be the same again next year and yes as a horse lover i am upset about the fact that those horses died for their pleasure but i know for a fact that as long as their raking in the money it wont change. Their horses are there buisness' and if it falls and dies they dont care they just go buy another one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

The Grand national is the greatest steeplechase in the world and to say these people dont care about there horses is absurd.
All the yard hands and Jockeys live for there horses if you have ever been to a proffesional race yard its evident these horses are treated like kings the have the most amazing life ever. There stabel hands and jockeys truely care about them and especially the stable hands they are working with them day by day.
Horses sadly die and are fatally injured doing all of the things we keep them for, yes the risk is higher in chasing and hurdling, but then many more horses do that than some other things we ask of them. Horses die or are seriously injured in their field, giving birth, out hacking or at exercise, eventing, at hunter trials, show jumping, at pony club, travelling in trailers and everything else we ask of them carries a risk however small it might seem.
horses die doing everyday things we deem the norm cause there isnt a thousand cameras on us. For example how many of us jump our horses the chances of injury are there to I know of a girl who took her horses showjumping 2weeks ago and the horse broke its neck and leg jumping 80cm. He then had to lie there until a vet was called to put him down, Thats cruel.

At Aintree however the Veterinary presence is far better than you would ever receive anywhere else, the diagnosis if needed is almost instant, there is an option of being taken to a state of the art hospital if there is a chance and it is highly likely that a vet is actually at Beecher's Brook or very very close to it. How many other horses have this kind of attention at the very site of their injury even at an international 3 day event?

it is very sad that fatalities happen but Racing is open to ideas and suggestions and you only have to look at the redesign of that course to see that study recommendations are implemented.

Have you ever looked at horses competing in hot countries?, or perhaps what went on at the Atlanta Olympics and the extensive British research project that preceded it. Ever seen a high end endurance ride, or how about A 200 k race in the Desert over 2 days?? a flat race in mid summer or humans running a marathon in summer? Aggressive cooling is absolutely the thing that has to be done to combat hard work in hot conditions, and clearly organisers had thought of this in advance or there would not have been enough buckets of water to hand on the course to cool all the horses regardless of if they finished the race with or without a rider. 

Also it was very clear that all the horses had been given the OK to cool the horses trackside and proceed directly to the stables rather than the enclosures in advance. The winner was tired of course but looked much improved for the immediate cooling and since they didn't film much else than him there was not really a suitable comparison. Most if not all of the jockeys dismounted on the course so their horses could be cooled and I have seen much more exhausted horses when any distance race is run in soft going. Yes a faster pace in heat takes it out of them and lactic acid build up will make them wobbly as soon as they stop, but with the cooling and walking they recover very quickly, heavy ground really wears them out.

These horses are very well prepared athletes it has absolutely nothing to do with fitness, it was a distance race in much hotter than usual conditions run on good ground at a fast pace.

These are the requiremants for the National there not just plucked out of the sky they are trained for this event!
For six-year-olds old and upwards which are allotted a rating of 110 or more by the BHA Head of Handicapping following a review of the horses entered and after taking account of races run up to and including February 13, 2011. Horses which are not qualified for a rating in Great Britain or Ireland at February 1, 2011, may also be entered. Such horses may be eligible for a weight providing the Handicapper is satisfied that the horse's racecourse performances to February 13, 2011, would merit a minimum rating of 110. To qualify horses must have run at least three times in Steeple Chases run under the Rules of Racing of the same Recognised Turf Authority up to and including February 13, 2011. At the Handicapper's discretion such horses may be allocated a rating. The decision of the BHA Head of Handicapping shall be final. No penalties after publication of the weights. Highest weight 11st 10lb. Maximum field size of 40. 



Ill be the first to admit i felt uncomfortable watching it but i would be the first to protest if it was stopped.


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## JamieLeighx (Nov 27, 2010)

I havent been to a top horse racing yard but i have for 3 months worked at a top greyhound racing kennel and believe me if that dog isnt fast enough theres isnt a second thought put into putting a bullet in it. Yes he cared about his dogs and they were VERY well looked after but only so they could win him his money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Is there some reason they have to run all the horses at once? I get that it's a race, but that field is enormous. Can't they break into packs of 10 and do best time overall? It seems that the sheer traffic is the root cause of danger here. Wouldn't that be an appropriate compromise? My horse is an OTTB. I'm not about to go bashing horse racing since, if it weren't for that sport, I wouldn't have my beautiful boy. Just seems like they could do more to make that particular race more safe.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Cinder said:


> [/COLOR]...Don't try to argue the helmet point. THERE ARE _DOZENS _of studies out there about it...If you decide to ride over the worst ground available...or jump without a helmet...will you say it's the governments fault if you get hurt?...There is a POINT to these things. They're not to make you mad or to impose on your freedom.
> [/LEFT]


Do you agree that the government should ban jumping? If not, then keep governments out of helmet laws - jumping horses is vastly more dangerous than riding flats without a helmet. ANYONE who jumps with a horse has accepted far greater risk of serious injury than anyone riding helmetless without jumping. 

Nor do I blame the government for anything that happens when I ride. Studies have shown riding horses is more dangerous, by far, than riding motorcycles. Anyone who rides accepts more risk than as Harley rider cruising down the road. I accept that risk. If I ride without a helmet, I accept far less risk than jumper.

And yes, people who mandate helmets most certainly ARE imposing on my freedom. And they do so without knowing what is most risky in riding horses. People in government aren't qualified to do anything involving horses, since the vast majority know nothing about the subject.

As for steeplechasing, it has been around a long time, and the risks are very well known. Beechers isn't a new jump, nor the GN a new course. Those participating, if human, know the risk. The horses? Their owners accept the risk for them, since horses cannot. You might not draw the line at the same place. Heck, you couldn't pay me enough for me to try that course if you offered me 5 years of training in advance - but the folks owning and riding know and accept it.

I also don't rock climb. But I did make a career in jet fighters, which probably involves as much risk of death as steeplechasing does for horses.

Life is risk. Where you draw the line is your choice. Where I draw it is mine. Where the government draws the line is almost certainly based on ignorance and the desire to cater to TV images by idiot politicians. THAT isn't where I want to put my trust. If the folks who KNOW steeplechase want to figure out a better way, I'm all for it. I don't want government or animal rights protesters deciding the issue.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

bsms said:


> Life is risk. Where you draw the line is your choice. Where I draw it is mine. Where the government draws the line is almost certainly based on ignorance and the desire to cater to TV images by idiot politicians. THAT isn't where I want to put my trust. If the folks who KNOW steeplechase want to figure out a better way, I'm all for it. I don't want government or animal rights protesters deciding the issue.


Well said bsms. I sadly didn't realize this thread turned into another "lets do a knee jerk reaction and take away more freedoms". Kinda thought it was about those poor horses who died, but hey what do I know. Again, well said.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

MyBoyPuck said:


> ...Kinda thought it was about those poor horses who died...


I would love to see the steeplechase folks take a serious look at how to reduce injuries, particularly at the GN. However, I read a book by **** Francis about his experiences as a steeplechase jockey (including the GN course), and he explained why some of the rules adopted in the 50s made things worse instead of better. It would take someone with far more knowledge than I to figure out what could be done to reduce risk to the horses and actually have it work.

It seems plausible that reducing the field would help, but what seems plausible and what works are often different!

When politicians get involved, all they seem to care about is 'doing something'. Getting it right isn't as important as getting seen on TV. Maybe I'm cynical, but I haven't met the politician I'd trust on anything involving horses.


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

bsms said:


> Life is risk. Where you draw the line is your choice. Where I draw it is mine. Where the government draws the line is almost certainly based on ignorance and the desire to cater to TV images by idiot politicians. THAT isn't where I want to put my trust. If the folks who KNOW steeplechase want to figure out a better way, I'm all for it. I don't want government or animal rights protesters deciding the issue.


The problem is most steeplechase folks think that horses should be treated like machines in order to (quote) "justify their being alive". The horses' well being is clearly not an important factor to people like this.

It truly is very sad.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

lovesmyhawse said:


> The problem is most steeplechase folks think that horses should be treated like machines in order to (quote) "justify their being alive". The horses' well being is clearly not an important factor to people like this...


The horses are not treated like machines. They are alive, and the care they receive shows the owners know it. They are treated like professional athletes, which is what they are. A horse that doesn't perform well is sold, not killed.

They are bred to race. If it were not for racing, they would have never been born. I fail to see how no chance at life is an improvement over a small chance of premature death.


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## lovesmyhawse (Mar 18, 2011)

No. I really don't think they are treated properly. Not to say I'm an expert, but I have trained 3 (2 geldings and 1 mare, all were pacers) off the track standardbreds to be ridden. These horses all had certain behaviors in common. They were all terrible wood chewers. 
They all hated, and I mean hated to put a bit in their mouth. 
Especially the mare. When I first tried to tack her up it took forever to get the bridle on. And it was months before she got over that. 
Also all three were extremely spooky. And not just in the normal way hot-blooded horses tend to be. The mare in particular was terrified to go through doorways or gates. It took over a year of coaxing her back and forth through the gate of her paddock, not to mention in and out of the barn, before she would go through without hesitating. 
One of the geldings was afraid of road signs. (god knows why) I went through the same thing with him. 
The mare had a foal and I worked with her from the day she was born untill she was 5. That filly was equally high strung and flighty as her mother, but it did'nt take nearly as long for her to get over her fears. 
I think the ex-racers had alot of awful fear memories. 
Horses do not develop these types of behavior with proper care and handling.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I have also seem some Ex Racers who are terrified of simple things. We have standing stalls here. The horses go in to get tacked up etc. Ths one horse would not go in at all! It took about 5 people to try. When they did eventually get him in and close the chain he reared and kicked at it non stop! He was really scared. He was shaking when they brought him back out..Why? Because he was forced into those little tiny starting gates at races. 

And I am not saying all horse racing owners are cruel. But half of them no nothing about horses and only own them to win money. I seen a programme here a few months ago about a few race horses here and they were treated well.

Oh and why do they have a vet at the beechers fence that causes most problems? Because they know horses will most likely fall at that one. Which is why they should take it out altogether.


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## CantStopRiding (Sep 6, 2010)

I completely agree with you, the people who organize it and such should know its dangerous but they STILL put all those horses in there as if they dont care. If I was a jockey in that race and knew what I was being put up to I wouldnt do it, they have a high chance of getting hurt but its like moneys more important than lives. I saw the race on TV and was devastated, and just seeing those close up pictures makes me sick!
Racing was supposed to be a nice fun sport, and now its turned evil. Its a disgrace


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

The fences are just too high! I heard that fences in the national are 5-6 feet! and you expect TBs trained for speed to jump these?
I watched the Scottish Grand National a few days ago and that was just as enjoyable to watch and the fences were much more manageable. No horse or Jockey was injured even though there were a couple of small falls. I think the Grand National authorities need to rethink what they put these horses through and the owners need to have some responsibility (even if they are only in it for the money).
It is so sad that the horses were lost, I read about it after the race. More often that not horses die or have to put down during this race.


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

I was just doing a search on the heights of jumps. The Grand Prix can have jumps up to 6 ft. I don't know much about jumping. 

I have read this thread all the way through. My favorite movie growing up was National Velvet. I like watching all horse racing sports. After reading this people keep asking why they won't do it in two groups. That might work but here to me lies the problem for those horses instead of racing 4 miles they will be racing 8 miles total. Then you would have to take the top 5 from each group to race to establish a winner fairly. To me that is a lot harder on the horses.


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## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Barry Godden said:


> The race is not a sport, it is more a gladiatorial contest, in which the winning horse survives and the jockey manages not to fall off and be trampled.


I don't know much about this race but I did read the entire article and this seems to be very much true. Those pictures were horrific no matter how you look at it. 



MaggiStar said:


> All the yard hands and Jockeys live for there horses if you have ever been to a proffesional race yard its evident these horses are treated like kings the have the most amazing life ever. There stabel hands and jockeys truely care about them and especially the stable hands they are working with them day by day.


Not just in this sport but in any sport, I see a problem with loveing a horse because of the profit they make you, not for being what they are. These horses are treated well because people are paid to treat them well in hopes (cross fingers) that they wont fall and die in this race.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

The course could be modified to reduce the risk of death to the horse but in doing so, the appeal to the baying public for death and disaster would be reduced.

This race is one of the premier betting events in the British annual racing calendar and to ignore the influence of the bookmakers is naive. To them the horse is a name on a betting slip.

The jockeys arrive as professionals on the day. The tender loving groom hands the horse over into that professional's care for the length of the race. 
The trainer and the owner stand by and watch to great excitement. 
The two questions in their minds must be:
Will my horse make it to the end of the race?
Could my horse actually be the first to pass the post - in which case I am a millionaire in $, Pounds, Euros or any currency you care to name. Would it matter if the horse never raced again if it won - No!

Sorry folks, but you can't have my Irish horse to run amongst all those other Irish horses. She might never reach the finishing line. I don't care how much you cheer, how much you win or how much you lose, you can't have my horse.

So why?, please explain, would I be willing to let the organisers have someone else's horse?


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