# Huge shoulder, low wither ( almost mutton) flat back and saddle sore



## CASugar (Oct 17, 2014)

If you have this kind of ridiculous big shouldered QH type, please share your experience with me. I started my youngster at 3 last fall in my favorite trail saddle which has a half quarter bar. Everything seemed ok, he was still growing in height and weight and we were going light with our sessions lasting only about an hour 2-3 times a week under saddle and ground work 2 days. No problems.

Weather was a factor as I could not get him into a daily routine until recently when we were blessed with sunny days. He just turned 4. I noticed he had dry patches at his withers one day and so I switched to using a wide tree dressage saddle. Sweat was good and no dry or hot spots. This worked out maybe 6-7 sessions, then he got an attitude, balked, his withers and shoulders were sore, unreal tight with knots ( as well as the neck). My brother loaned me his saddle he used on his big appendix QH which has a 7 1/2 gullet. All was good again until I started riding him daily and he got sore again. Really sore, but this has not made him lame.

I have had the chiropractor out and do daily massage which has helped a lot. Now I don't know what to use for a saddle to get him going again. I measured his withers/ shoulders using wire bent over and laying flat where the saddle would go, and behind the shoulders. He is 8" if there was a three finger clearance wither to pommel. I have folks telling me the full QH bar saddle is adequate ( like my brother's saddle @ 7 1/2 ) with a 1" pad. I also read the QH types these days are more typically into saddles with 8" to 9" gullets. I can't let him get sore like that again and I might have a saddle fitter out if I can figure out who, but would like to know as much as possible first.

By the way, Girth Syndrome is a possible explanation as I just found out his Dam had a broken hip rendering her as a brood mare only.

Should I consider a treeless saddle or just look for one with a 8" gullet? 

Thanks in advance for you assistance.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, gullet measurement is but one of a number of considerations for saddle fit. Can't tell you what size gullet width you need - you need to measure your horse. Should be wide enough(all the way thru, not just at front) to clear all spinal processes & nerves that run alongside by a couple of inches either side. If talking a western saddle(I'm assuming), you also need to consider that the bar angle is suitable for him. Next you need to consider amount of 'rock' - that is, whether the shape of the saddle on your horse is likely to 'bridge' or with too much rock, will put all the pressure in the middle. Then you've got to consider length and placement of the saddle. It should be back far enough(add at least a couple inches back from rear of scapula) to clear and not restrict the shoulders, and shouldn't extend back past the last rib. Girth placement also effects how/where a saddle sits on the horse.

I would have thought the chiro would have wanted to check out your saddles & advise on that.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

You might consider purchasing a custom built Western saddle designed for your horse after you take a variety of different measurements. I remember one manufacturer (Western or English?) that used a special heated pad to produce a mold of the horse's beck to build a saddle around. I'm sorry I can't remember any particular manufacturers' names, but you could probably find one or more by doing a search for "custom Western saddles". I also seem to remember one saddle where you could insert shims to improve the fit.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Yeah, they look good TX, but expensive. I too can't remember name or source but came across them when googling saddle fitting & custom saddles. I opted for the lesser but vastly cheaper option of a draftsmans... bendy thing(no, I'm not being rude!) that I can shape to the horse & then trace onto cardboard, a number of measurements, such as gullet & bar angle, rock, and panel/bar angles further back.

Shims IMO are generally a temporary 'bandaid' fix, that can be helpful, while you assess/make do with a saddle until it's adjusted/replaced, or when the horse is changing shape. However, Wintec make saddles which you're able to shim inside the saddle, above the panels.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree that a western saddle fit involves much more than just the gullet. You need the right twist along the entire bar length.
Far as a custom made saddle, while they sound great, one has to remmeber that they remain a custom fit, only if that horse is always in the same shape and level of fittness, as when that saddle was fitted for him
Since I raised horses, thus always had anew crop of horses to start under saddle each year, plus rode many different personal horses, I never went the custom fitted route, but instead invested in a well made saddle that fit the general build of the horses we raised.
I can honestly say that I never sored a horse with that saddle, even putting many mountain miles on lots of those horses
I use AirRide pads, and, when I ride long mountain miles, I have that back cinch done up well, esp if also riding with abreast collar
Have you checked the position of your saddle? It is a common mistake by many, to put that western saddle too far forward, because that looks 'right'
They then will lock that saddle into that position, using a breast collar
I would check some of the criteria that determine the entire length of the bars fit the horse, and how you are placing that saddle

This is avery good site, that goes into great detail on all the elements that determine fit of a western saddle tree

THE SADDLE


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

As others have said, fit involves a lot more than gullet width.

Full QH bars, Semi QH etc refers to angle which needs to match the angle of your horse behind the shoulder, they also vary in width so you need one that is wide enough. So you first have to look for a saddle where the angles correspond, and then look for the one the appropriate width. However, you need to look at the first throughout the rest of the saddle, ensuring that the panels all contact the back evenly, and that it doesn't bridge or rock, or pinch or sit up too high. 

Also, check where your girth sits, if it's girthed to far back it's not uncommon for it to pull the saddle forward.


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