# Horse drops inside shoulder while trotting circles



## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

My horse has a tendency to drop his inside shoulder when we're trotting circles. How can I get him to stay more balanced?
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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

Therefore cutting them off.
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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Counter arcs. Everytime he tries to dive in, keep the same bend but counter-arc him away with your leg and support him with your reins. That will help him from diving in and dropping his shoulder. It sounds to me like he is anticipating.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am assuming by "counter arc" you mean to bend him back toward the inside and push him outward back onto the arc of the circle? Or, did you mean take the bend he is trying to fall into on (inside shoulder going inward, head going outward) and then continue circleing the same direction but with horse counterbent?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Say he is falling in a left circle. When I felt him drop his shoulder I would keep the left bend and make a right circle.

My mare Selena was god-awful about dropping her shoulder when I first got her. We spent hours doing that excersize. As a bonus, I find starting off with counterarcs really gets them thinking and using their brains a little more too.


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

How can I do that? Have him going one way but bent the other?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes. Bear in mind if he doesn't already know how to do it he will probably stiffen, brace, throw his head, and fight you little. Just keep at it until your horse takes a step and softens at the poll, then release and pat him and ask again. Let me see if I can find a video for you, I'm not sure my explanations are very good.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

This video isn't bad, but I would like to see the horse soften its face a little more and really march into the circle, but you can get the basic idea from this.





 
Also, I prefer to do it at the walk or the trot, but every now and then I will do them at the canter too just to be sure my horse is stil listening. So if I had him on the left lead, I would circle to the left but bend him to the right.

You could always start your ride like this too, and establish that control before you even start work. What I'll do is I start with small circles, asking for a lot of soften and bend just to get the horses loosened up. Then I'll keep that bend and counter arc them away. Then I might change the bend but still keep the circle, or change the circle and keep the bend, or change bend and change circle at the same time...Really anything. Just something to keep them guessing and thinking, and stretching out. It's as much a technique for the brain as it is the body.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

That's interesting. The horse is a bit braced in the neck, but maybe that's cause he is using a shanked bit for direct reining. Might have better luck in a straight snaffle. Maybe.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes, I agree Tiny. I do not like the way the guy is doing it. If I was to do it, I would do it in a snaffle. However it's pretty hard to find a good video of a counter arc. I'll do a more thorough search a little later.

ETA: I'm going to try and record me and Selena doing it later, if it cools down. It's 105 degrees and smoky right now...


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I found a brief article that does an okay job explaining it.

"..._ It is exactly what it sounds like: Your horse moves on an arc, let’s say to the left, but his body is bending to the right. It’s great for strengthening the hind end, improving cadence and loosening up the shoulders for flatter-knee gaits with more reach. _

_Ride your horse on a circle to the left with his body conforming to the circle’s arc. Then, with your left leg about an inch behind the cinch and your right leg completely off his side, push your horse away from that circle and onto a circle to the right. You will be changing the direction of your circle without changing the direction of your horse’s bend. _

_During this exercise you’ll maintain the original bend with a shorter left rein and supportive contact on your right rein. As you push your horse over with your left leg, keep your hands about 10 inches apart and simultaneously move them one or two inches to the right. That will bring your horse’s head, neck and shoulders into the new direction in a reversed arc. This exercise can be performed at any gait, but stick with the walk until he feels comfortable, then give him time to master it at the jog before trying it at the lope. In the beginning, ask for just a few steps at a time and keep your counter-bent circles and turns large and sweeping to give your horse a chance to become accustomed to the work. _

_If your horse slows down or tries to quit, immediately return to a normal arc and re-establish his momentum before trying the counter-bend again. Reverse the procedure for a counter-bend to the left. Make sure he has plenty of forward energy before you try it again. He has to maintain a steady pace to reap the benefits of the exercise. However, until your horse develops the strength and flexibility to maintain it for longer periods of time, only ask for a couple steps in the reversed arc before allowing him to go straight or returning to a regular bend."_

I know that this is something I've really only seen in western riders, but I think it will have a benefit in your situation if you can get control of your horse's shoulder and move him the opposite way that h_e _thinks he's going.


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

Should I counter arc him every time he drops his shoulder?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes. If he even hints at, bring him into a counter arc. I should also add to keep a lot of bend through his body. It will be next to impossible for him to drop his shoulder if he is bent correctly and loosened up.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

SorrelHorse said:


> I know that this is something I've really only seen in western riders, but I think it will have a benefit in your situation if you can get control of your horse's shoulder and move him the opposite way that h_e _thinks he's going.


 
This is done in dressage training , too. But not quite the same. Judgeing from the video, the rider in your example is working more on pushing the shoulder over, with the hind end basically pivoting.

What I was taught, which is somewhat similar, is keeping the counter bend, but making more of a full circle, so that instead of pivoting with mainly the shoulders moving over, the horse is walking forward, stepping under with his outside leg (which was his inside leg until you changed the direction of the circle, but is still technically his inside leg because it is on the inside of his bend. I just used outside leg to mean it is on the outside of the new circle), and walking forward . Dressage focusses more on moving the hindquarters, getting the hindquarters to step under rather than the shoulders stepping over. It doesnt' really matter. Your idea , Sorrel, is good and your description and reminder to keep the forward momentum are good.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

^ Yes, that's something I forgot to mention so I'm glad you brought it up Tiny. I would do a lot more acually on a circle, instead of just pivoting. Unless I'm doing barrel training, but that's a totally differant story, haha.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Tiny, sorry but I have to disagree with your last statement. In dressage, to correct crookedness we try to move the shoulders in front of the hindquarters, rather than pushing the hind quarters to match the shoulders. Dropping the inside shoulder, I would be riding shoulder fore to the inside on a 15-20m circle to re-establish a firm outside rein connection, with a healthy respect for the inside leg. The inside leg should be keeping the horse upright, counter bending a horse can help, but they're still able to fall on that shoulder unless the horse has built an understanding of an outside rein and inside leg. 
Also, please throw away your inside rein - remember that pulling on an inside rein will block the inside hind from coming through, and with an inside hind that doesn't come through the inside shoulder will also fall in.


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