# How do you know when there spirit is broken?



## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

No one?


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

You can certainly tell by the look they have in their eyes. It's dull, sad, and lacks a zest for life. There is no spirit there, just a robot. No play drive. 

I get so angry when I see horses who have had their spirits broken. It makes me sick because it's so sad. Some people just should have NOTHING to do with animals....period.


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## CopperHorse (Mar 29, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> You can certainly tell by the look they have in their eyes. It's dull, sad, and lacks a zest for life. There is no spirit there, just a robot. No play drive.
> 
> I get so angry when I see horses who have had their spirits broken. It makes me sick because it's so sad. Some people just should have NOTHING to do with animals....period.


 
I compleatly agree with Spirithorse, they just looked "drugged" or very sad.


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## travlingypsy (Apr 5, 2008)

They would act depressed. Thats so sad why would you want to break anythings spirit, and plus thats what is sooooo amazing about horses is their spirits! Thats why they are so beautiful, free spirited. 

Is Abby like this or does she still have hers intact. Have you looked into liberty training? That could bring any horse with a broken spirit back into the world. 

Here is a video of Carolyn Resnick, she has tons more. Im starting to train my mare this way and just by changing my whole approuch with Gypsys training, man I can see a huge change in her whole attitude. 




 
I love this quote... "If he'll give me time I'll let him be what ever he wants to be" 
That is brilliant and every rider needs to take those words to heart!


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## twogeldings (Aug 11, 2008)

A broken spirit is a broken horse, one that may never, ever be repaired no matter how much love you patch them with.


A horses spirit should be tamed, yes, but never broken. 

I see a horses spirit in the terms of fire. 
My gelding Loki has a strong one, a hot blaze, he is hard mouthed, hard headed, and difficult in the saddle. If that blaze were to be tamed, contained, he would make a fantastic show horse and trail companion. _Tamed, not crushed._
Red Man has a changing flame, from soft and mellow to blazing hot. He is very free-minded, he does not like to be contained or constrained in anyway. He is difficult to tame as he is changing, care must be taken not to suffocate the fire that makes him what he is. Like his brother, he too would excell both in the ring and on the trails.
Sammy has a mellow, relaxing flame. It is warming, gentle, but not hot or uncontrollably changing like Loki or Red's. It is that what makes him so wonderful to be around. If it were estinguished...nothing would be left.



I would never in my life entrust any of my horses to someone who 'breaks their spirits'. I would rather have them sit in the pasture and become fat and useless.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

travlingypsy said:


> They would act depressed. Thats so sad why would you want to break anythings spirit, and plus thats what is sooooo amazing about horses is their spirits! Thats why they are so beautiful, free spirited.
> 
> Is Abby like this or does she still have hers intact. Have you looked into liberty training? That could bring any horse with a broken spirit back into the world.
> 
> ...


I believe he might have broken hers. She just seems so sad and depressed, doesnt like to run around and play. Arent 5 year olds meant to be full of energy? Jumping around having fun? 

Thankyou for posting that video. I will look into liberty training!

Sam


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

Thankyou everyone for replying! It's sad to see a horse so lifeless.


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## travlingypsy (Apr 5, 2008)

Aww poor Abby, I dunno I feel you can help or maybe repair a horses spirit. It would just take time and honest good work. See the thing I like about the libirty training is that its not "move or els". For example the way I was tought with nat. horsemanship is if they didnt move or come off that lead pressure then you step in and wack. When I came across Carolyns method. I learned that there is no reason to hit,smack,wack..ect your horse. That their are MUCH better ways in training. And ever since I started this, Gypsy has done better. And its letting her express her self way much better then with the ground work, dont get me wrong I love groundwork and think it helps a lot. But id rather not hit my horse or charge after it becuase its not on the circle right. 
And once you have your horses whole respect and it sees you as a leader then it will fallow you any where ever and do any thing you ask of it, with out having to be "violent" I like that...


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I was thinking about trying the Monty Roberts join-up...Do you think that would help her?


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## travlingypsy (Apr 5, 2008)

I havent heard of Monty Roberts join-up so I wouldnt know


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## Colorado Aimee (Apr 2, 2009)

Wow I loved seeing that video! It's amazing to see a horse move like that.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I've done Monty's join up before and it just seemed incomplete. I saw too many holes in the program. I finally found Parelli and an absolute believer in it.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

You can tell because they'll have a lifeless look in their eyes, like they just don't care about anything anymore. Breaking a horse's spirit is not the way to train them. They do it all the time in Spanishland and it makes me sick. You're not a true horseman if you have to beat a horse into submission.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

^^Amen to that.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I believe you can get a horses spirit back. I've taken in horses that have been beaten and neglected. They had no personality, no play, no zest for life. It comes back. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes weeks, but you can get it back, with patience, time, love, and understanding.

Back in the "cowboy days" they used to "break" horses. Now most people train them. There is a difference. A horse can be well behaved, have excellent ground manners, and even work like a "machine" and still not be broken. IF it is trained properly. It usually takes a lot of time and sweat to get them that way and that is why some people will opt to "break their spirit". You can bring your horse back though. Good luck.


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## Kianne (Jan 10, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> *I believe you can get a horses spirit back. I've taken in horses that have been beaten and neglected. They had no personality, no play, no zest for life. It comes back. Sometimes it takes years, sometimes weeks, but you can get it back, with patience, time, love, and understanding.*
> 
> Back in the "cowboy days" they used to "break" horses. Now most people train them. There is a difference. A horse can be well behaved, have excellent ground manners, and even work like a "machine" and still not be broken. IF it is trained properly. It usually takes a lot of time and sweat to get them that way and that is why some people will opt to "break their spirit". You can bring your horse back though. Good luck.












The way some people treat animals makes me sick, is so horrible... I'm so sorry about Abby, but i think you can bring her spirit back.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

Thankyou everyone!

It's so sad that people do that. I'm going to look into Parelli or something similar.


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## bsdhorse (Mar 28, 2009)

I'm reselling my new horse back to it's previous owners. He puts his ears back and is very agressive towards me. They said they hit him and he behaves. So I tried, only giving him a light tap and ever since then he has tried to kick me several times.

When he is not nervous looking and putting his ears back, he looks like he is drugged up. He seems slow and always looks like he is half asleep. Is it possible that the previous owners may have hit him a lot and it has broken his spirit?

I'm new to horses but I always thought that you are never supposed to hit them.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

they could have been abusive or it could be that they soured him w/ the wrong types of discipline and training. I'm sorry it didn't work out.


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## travlingypsy (Apr 5, 2008)

bsdhorse said:


> I'm reselling my new horse back to it's previous owners. He puts his ears back and is very agressive towards me. They said they hit him and he behaves. So I tried, only giving him a light tap and ever since then he has tried to kick me several times.
> 
> When he is not nervous looking and putting his ears back, he looks like he is drugged up. He seems slow and always looks like he is half asleep. Is it possible that the previous owners may have hit him a lot and it has broken his spirit?
> 
> I'm new to horses but I always thought that you are never supposed to hit them.


 
I think that when your horse is acting slow or sleepy he is "checking out" he is leaving you mentally and just isnt there anymore. Horses can do that alot and ive seen it more in horses that have been abused. Like mine.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

^^That's very true. Horses will "check out" when they feel too much pressure...this is called going introverted, and in extreme cases the horse can go catatonic. Very sad, and also can be very dangerous.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I have never heard of a horse "Checking out", I guess we all learn something new. 

I would say that they have been abusive to him and he now thinks everyone is going to hurt him so he is defending himself. How long have you owned him for?


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## bsdhorse (Mar 28, 2009)

Nearly two weeks. But every day he seems to get worse.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I think he may be trying to see who is the boss, I would give him a couple of more weeks. He just needs to learn to trust you, lots of ground work and grooming is good. 

I'm not very experienced myself I so I can't help much, but it does sound like he is testing you out. From my experiences they usually stop being huge brats after about a month. Just give him a bit of time to settle and get to know everyone.


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## travlingypsy (Apr 5, 2008)

You know I agree with crazychester about him trying to be the boss. 

When I got my horse Gypsy, she was my first horse and it was awful! She also had abusive handling in her past and she was a reck before she came to this barn. But when I got her I was honestly going to sell her because she was just so darn mean and we were butting heads so much. It was really hard for me because I was still learning, well learning about horses and training. So it was a huge jump for me and it was hard to get over it. But I had lessons with ground work. I took a class horse 101 and it was just ground work and riding. 
Is their anyway you can take lessons? 
Just dont let him take over. Any horse will push buttons and try and find that spot. You just have to know when they are doing it and how to correct it properly.


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## bsdhorse (Mar 28, 2009)

I have already organized to re-sell him back. Problem is, we have 3 other new horses and they are nothing like it...

When I find another horse, I will have training from the first moment I'm with him. That way, I know what to do from the start.

It's hard to do any groundwork, or grooming. You get within 10 feet of him and he tries to kick me. Every day it gets worse. It's now at the stage where my dad is too scared to be anywhere near him. He avoids the yard he is in.


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## travlingypsy (Apr 5, 2008)

Im sorry it didnt work out, horses like that need someone who can handle and look for that challenge. Its fun when your younger and get those project horses... Once I sell Gypsy Im going to get a project horse. 

Hopefully you find the right horse for you and you can just play around with it. Good luck!


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## Baylee (Apr 10, 2011)

I have a question, Just recently Me and my mom had to have out horse 'High Boy' put down. hHe was a pasture pal for my pony Baylee and they were very close. We introduced horse a few months before High left so my pony wouldn't be lonely, but I've noticed that my pony isn't happy or as sassy as she used to be.

I know the she is now very close with the new horse but she gets bossed around and has lost weight due to getting kicked off her grain. My mom and i have been separating them now when they eat but nothing seems to be making her happy.

Is there anything I could do to help her feel better?


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## TheLovedOne (Jan 26, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> A horse can be well behaved, have excellent ground manners, and even work like a "machine" and still not be broken. IF it is trained properly. It usually takes a lot of time and sweat to get them that way and that is why some people will opt to "break their spirit".


FP I have to comment on your post. Reteaching horses takes a lot more time than teaching them correctly to begin with - no question. However, teaching a horse correctly does not take any longer. It all boils down to how competent the human teaching the horse is. That is the problem there aren't many competent trainers. People who resort to violent and abusive teaching methods are completely incompetent. Where knowledge ends abuse begins. 

I'm sorry to hear that your horse had to suffer an incompetent trainer. There are way too many out there. Most horses recover but not all and it really just depends on just how much they endured and how sensitive they are. Time and patience goes a long way just like other people have said.


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## TKButtermilk (May 20, 2010)

When my mom got her mare she had been a broodmare and when she got hurt in a trailering accident her owner just left her for years in a paddock with no contact. She was fed and had her feet done occasionally but no affection or care. She was sooo depressed when we got her! And just far away. Like there wasn't much left anymore. Because she was hurt when he left her and never got any care(she never trailered well, was backing off a trailer and slipped, one hind leg got caught under) she could barely walk. My mom spent HOURS everyday just being with her, brushing her, hand grazing her and never asking anything of her at all. Eventually she got her walking and she recovered almost entirely and her spirit came back full force! Now she runs, bucks, plays and loves my mom more than anything, shed jump the moon if my mom asked. I think things like join up and just plain old ground school could work wonders but even without Pebbles came back. You just have to keep the hope!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Jessabel said:


> You can tell because they'll have a lifeless look in their eyes, like they just don't care about anything anymore. Breaking a horse's spirit is not the way to train them. They do it all the time in Spanishland and it makes me sick. You're not a true horseman if you have to beat a horse into submission.


 
You know, it's interesting how a horseman vs a "normal" person with little experience will veiw this subject. 

My husband and I were on a walk one day, and three guys came riding by on their horses; I had seen these people from way off (you know, cause I'm a horse crazed woman, and can "smell" horses from a mile away)...well even from afar, I could tell there was no true partnership/horsemanship going on between these horse and riders. 

The rider who was in front was on a big gelding who was SO tense, and his 'canter' if you want to even call it that, was more of that super "hot gaming horse" hop...you know how alot of gamers hop into the ring, instead of lope, or trot? His eyes were showing the sclera, ears back, sweaty, and he was very tense against the bit. Hubby thought it was cool...I was disgusted; he was like, well that's just not how you train...darn straight that's not how I will EVER train a horse...I want my horse to actually enjoy his time with me, not be 'controlled' by a heavy bit, and whatever other means it took to get that horse 'that' amped. Only one of the horses in that group showed relative relaxation, and even he wasn't that relaxed. It's times like that I wish I were on the trails with my mare, so I could ask them just how much their horse would be willing to do for them, without force... I've put my mare into some pretty weird situations, and have never had to do more than click to her after giving her a chance to realize I wasn't going to put her in danger, and she dove right in...


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

TKButtermilk said:


> When my mom got her mare she had been a broodmare and when she got hurt in a trailering accident her owner just left her for years in a paddock with no contact. She was fed and had her feet done occasionally but no affection or care. She was sooo depressed when we got her! And just far away. Like there wasn't much left anymore. Because she was hurt when he left her and never got any care(she never trailered well, was backing off a trailer and slipped, one hind leg got caught under) she could barely walk. My mom spent HOURS everyday just being with her, brushing her, hand grazing her and never asking anything of her at all. Eventually she got her walking and she recovered almost entirely and her spirit came back full force! Now she runs, bucks, plays and loves my mom more than anything, shed jump the moon if my mom asked. I think things like join up and just plain old ground school could work wonders but even without Pebbles came back. You just have to keep the hope!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree...sometimes folks DO put too much stock in a program, when what a horse really needs is just someone who is willing to spend the time rehabbing him. Yes, there ARE good things that come with good horsemanship principles...but I think we tend to forget that some of that horsemanship involves just spending time with your horse. I spend just as much time grooming, and taking my mare for walks as I do doing ground work and riding...and last year for 5 months (when I was sick), that's ALL I pretty much did, because I was afraid to do much more than love on her, for fear of me injuring myself...so we took alot of walks (she was MY physical therapy...haha).


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