# Why Safety Bars on English Saddles?



## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I recently bought a treeless saddle, and it's working well for my horse. It came with EZ-Ride stirrups with a caged toe for safety. I've never used that type of stirrup, and found the base too slippery (neoprene). So I put a pair of regular English style stirrups on. This type of treeless has a closed stirrup ring, so no safety bar like most English saddles have.

Reading about treeless saddles, they kept saying, "you must use safety stirrups since there is no safety bar to release the stirrup in the event of an accident." 

Well, I haven't been able to decide if there's a type of safety stirrup I like, so I've been riding with my regular ones. 

As I've been riding, I found myself thinking...how many times have I ridden in Western saddles with no safety release for the stirrups or leathers? So I began to wonder why it is that English saddles seem to have this need for a safety bar when Western saddles don't? Don't get me wrong, safer is always better, but I was just curious if there is something that makes a person more likely to be dragged in an English saddle.

I know it's always possible to be dragged by a stirrup. I'm sure the risk is a lot less with safety stirrups. I've never used them, and a friend of mine has actually hung up in a safety stirrup (peacock style). 

I'm trying to decide if it would be stupid or risky to keep riding in my treeless with regular stirrups, or if the risk would be similar to riding in a Western saddle, which people do every day. I always wear a boot with a heel, and ride on the balls of my feet. 

In the past, I've had trouble with a couple of saddles that had stirrup bars that released too easily. In particular, a Wintec had short swooping stirrup bars with no catch, and if you went up too steep of a hill, the stirrups tended to swoop off the bars and fall off behind you. Another saddle with a very short, straight bar did the same thing, and one of my friends came and zip-tied them closed, saying she was tired of going back for my stirrups. A good friend! She did mention that hopefully my weight would break the zip tie in the event of a drag. :wink:


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Probably because it's a lot easier to come off an English saddle than it is to come out of a western saddle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

English saddles are used in jumping, and the risk of falling is vastly higher while jumping. I'd be worried if a jump saddle did not have an easy release. I would not be worried about a dressage-like saddle that did not. The style of riding and risk is different. Kind of like helmets - I'd never jump without a helmet, but wear one out of habit for my riding (flats, but on roads or in the desert).

A decent cowboy boot has a big heel. I wouldn't ride a western saddle in sneakers, although I've met folks who did. Some western stirrups (oxbow) are more likely to catch a foot, based on past comments on HF by folks who have known western riders who got caught up. And my preferred western cowboy boots slide off easy. A pair that hangs on tight to my foot is good for going to church, but not for riding. IMHO.

Either way, a good fitting stirrup is important. If the English stirrup fits your foot/boot, then your foot cannot slide all the way thru. Any other situation should come free pretty fast - at least, it did for me in my one fall. My toes were bruised, but my foot had slipped in to the home position during the excitement just prior, and my foot came out. The stirrups and strap, BTW, stayed on the saddle...

But on the whole, English riders tend to expect falling and western riders tend to assume they will not. Risk assumption. That is why so many western riders refuse to wear helmets. They (we) just don't see falling off as a big risk. I got into the helmet habit riding Mia, which was a bit of a special case...:icon_rolleyes:


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

English stirrups are a closer and snugger fit than a western style stirrup. By nature of design of the riding saddle.
_
No one should be riding ever without a heel of some sort on their shoe/boot....

_Western boots have a larger heel than English, yes. 
Western boots were also originally designed for the cowboy who rode and worked all day both astride and walking, working from the ground. By nature of his job he needed a boot with a thick leather shaft for leg protection, a heel for walking over terrain and a wider comfy foot bed so he could walk miles if need be.
They are also designed to go in that larger stirrup with a wider footbed of space than the neat and tidy English paddock boot.
However, your stirrup should also fit your boot with proper clearance given not to much or to little and not a "gripping" material on your boot bottom. 
Hence real riding boots have a non-lugged sole, most likely a flat sole or slight tread, very slight!

Sorry bsms....I don't go for, _"__English riders tend to expect falling and western riders tend to assume they will not."_
_*That is crap!*_ Accidents happen. Regardless of riding discipline...people fall off!
Never would I ever get astride "expecting" to fall.
The choice though is yours to make in how you approach your riding and learning experience. 
Whether you choose to wear a helmet or not, whether you choose to ride with a heeled shoe/boot and whether you choose to make your riding experience as safe as you can in a sport that is dangerous because of what it is is all_ your choice!_
You educate yourself to enjoy the sport of riding and being as safe as you can while doing it. No different than any other sport...you take safeguards for protecting yourself as best you can.

As for finding a comfortable "safe" English stirrup...
Look for a peacock stirrup. _
Horse Tack, Horse & Equine Supplies - Statelinetack.com
_Another style of "safety stirrups"... 
_http://www.statelinetack.com/item/foot-free-safety-stirrup-irons-pair/SLT732239/

_And they do make a "safety stirrup" for western discipline...
Spring loaded outside branch of the stirrup that does give way if you take a fall...
_http://www.statelinetack.com/item/ez-out-safety-stirrup/E012987/

__My apologies I'm not sure all the links will work correctly. You may need to copy & paste some addresses.

:runninghorse2:
jmo..

_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

We always rode English with leather soled boots. The stirrups had the rubber foot pad but with the leather soles the foot would slide out fairly easily. To this day I ride in leather soled boots even if western. Treeless stirrups should be ridden long like a dressage stirrup so there's so that narrow band across the horse's back isn't carrying the full weight of your legs.


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## Irish Cob (Nov 8, 2015)

What saddle make /model is it?

If it's the type that has the closed ring on the stirrup plate, simply buy another stirrup plate with the E bar and use your regular stirrups.
Or, you can use the Swiss Clip that fits between the leather and the stirrup. Barnes buckles are no longer made.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I have ridden a lot of miles in my treeless saddle and *knock wood* have never needed a safety release. 

I agree that in general english irons are tighter than western stirrups, but that almost would make it harder to get a foot through and trapped! I suspect a lot of the warnings are simply to protect the manufacturer from law suits.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Try a set of these:
Horse Tack, Horse & Equine Supplies - Statelinetack.com


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't put a lot of faith in stirrup leathers coming off the stirrup bar in the case of an emergency. The saddle I had up until last year was so hard to get the stirrup leathers on and off, there's no way they'd ever slide off on their own. My current saddles aren't quite that bad, but I still wouldn't expect them to slide off in anything but a freak accident.

The best way to prevent getting hung up in the stirrup is to make sure it's sized correctly and you're wearing proper boots with a heel. English stirrups should never be "snug"- they should be about an inch wider than the widest part of the shoe. A good way to check fit is to see if you can fit a finger between the boot on and the inside of the stirrup on each side. If you wear thicker/heavier boots in the winter, you may need a bigger pair of stirrups for those months; or, if they're only a little bigger, you can ride in larger stirrups year round. It's uncommon for adults to have stirrups that are too large to be safe, but it's possible that if they were too large, your foot could slip through even with a heel on your boot.

It wouldn't bother me to not have a traditional stirrup bar, but I do make sure that my stirrups and boots are correctly sized and matched. I have used several types of safety stirrups (peacock, Kwik-out, Foot Free) and like the little bit of extra peace of mind having them there. I ended up giving away the Foot Free stirrups when I sold the saddle they were on, moved my Kwik-outs from my dressage to my jumping saddle, and bought a pair of MDC Sports for my dressage saddle. The MDC stirrups are not safety stirrups strictly speaking, but claim that they are less likely to trap a foot because they stay open (assuming you are riding with them rotated out)


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## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

The safety bar on English saddles have a twofold purpose

1. Should a rider get their foot caught in the stirrup when they get thrown or fall off it will ensure that the rider does not get dragged as the stirrup leather will come off the saddle backwards

2.Should a rider and horse part company the loose horse will not suffer injury by having a stirrup getting caught on something - again the stirrup leather will come off

Don't forget that when the safety bar was first put on saddles the main sport was cross country hunting where jumping through hedges and over ditches was normal and people coming off was almost certain ( as often they had had a drink or two ) - hunting back then may have been fun but it was almost certainly very dangerous


One other thing I should say is that when riding it should be difficult for a stirrup leather to come off a saddle if the rider is positioned correctly









Not the most flattering picture I will admit - and yes both I and my mount face planted but you will see that even in this position my ankle is underneath my rear end ( as it should be ) and there is no danger of the leather coming off backwards - and this is one of the Wintec saddles that someone else reportedly had trouble with


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

In the past a lot of English riding had a base in hunting - in the US you even call a style of riding 'hunt seat'. You're certainly a lot more likely to have a fall out hunting than you are doing pretty much else
The thing with all safety features is that you never need them until something bad happens, which might be never or it could be today


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> ...Sorry bsms....I don't go for, _"__English riders tend to expect falling and western riders tend to assume they will not."
> 
> _ _*That is crap!*_ Accidents happen. Regardless of riding discipline...people fall off!
> Never would I ever get astride "expecting" to fall.
> ...


Chill. Cussing won't help. What I said was "_Risk assumption. That is why so many western riders refuse to wear helmets. They (we) just don't see falling off as a big risk_." I've had one fall in 7 years, and that came when my horse exploded part way thru a dismount. I've yet to come off with both feet starting in the stirrups.

All of the safety measures we take are based on our perception of risk. Jumping, which is normally done English, has a much greater risk associated with it - 10-70 times, depending on the study you choose to believe. But a study of eventing done around 1990 had the accidents break out like this: 88% jumping, 11% standing on the ground near a horse, and 1% dressage. I've hit the ground more often with horses when I STARTED on the ground.

In any case, perception of risk is individual. I refuse to ride motorcycles anymore because it is too risky. My BIL rides motorcycles all the time, but he won't even enter a corral with horses - too dangerous. PERCEPTION of risk. It may or may not match actual risk, but we make decisions based on our opinion of how risky things are, versus any reward.

I know a family that has ridden horses frequently, in very rough country, often 10-12+ hours a day, and they have not had a head injury in 4 generations. I haven't asked if they ever got hung up in a stirrup, so I don't know. But that MIGHT explain why they don't wear helmets. They've had busted arms, shoulders and ribs, but no head injuries.

If someone is working cattle this way:










They may be more worried about keeping their stirrups ON than needing them to come off. That might also explain why so many western riders use the "home" position - they have concluded injury is more likely to come from losing a stirrup than from keeping it!

I started English. My favorite authors on riding are still Littauer, Chamberlin & George Morris - all English. I now have some good books from a dressage perspective. I still use my Australian-style saddle sometimes, and it is 90% English, with English stirrup leathers (and usually with Australian 4-bar stirrups). I'm not insulting anyone.

*Perception* of risk. How the individual views it. Versus any trade-offs, since safety usually involves trade offs. Combined with any other mitigating factors - a relatively loose cowboy boot vs a high English boot. And for the record, all my English riding was done in cowboy boots. The horse didn't know or care, and the stirrup fit is still the same. No one buys a wider foot bed for a cowboy boot than other boots or shoes. My 8D works out the same in cowboy boots and jogging shoes...in fact, they are narrower than my sneakers.


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

verona1016 said:


> I don't put a lot of faith in stirrup leathers coming off the stirrup bar in the case of an emergency. The saddle I had up until last year was so hard to get the stirrup leathers on and off, there's no way they'd ever slide off on their own. My current saddles aren't quite that bad, but I still wouldn't expect them to slide off in anything but a freak accident.
> 
> The best way to prevent getting hung up in the stirrup is to make sure it's sized correctly and you're wearing proper boots with a heel. English stirrups should never be "snug"- they should be about an inch wider than the widest part of the shoe. A good way to check fit is to see if you can fit a finger between the boot on and the inside of the stirrup on each side. If you wear thicker/heavier boots in the winter, you may need a bigger pair of stirrups for those months; or, if they're only a little bigger, you can ride in larger stirrups year round. It's uncommon for adults to have stirrups that are too large to be safe, but it's possible that if they were too large, your foot could slip through even with a heel on your boot.
> 
> It wouldn't bother me to not have a traditional stirrup bar, but I do make sure that my stirrups and boots are correctly sized and matched. I have used several types of safety stirrups (peacock, Kwik-out, Foot Free) and like the little bit of extra peace of mind having them there. I ended up giving away the Foot Free stirrups when I sold the saddle they were on, moved my Kwik-outs from my dressage to my jumping saddle, and bought a pair of MDC Sports for my dressage saddle. The MDC stirrups are not safety stirrups strictly speaking, but claim that they are less likely to trap a foot because they stay open (assuming you are riding with them rotated out)


Agree with this. There is zero chance my leathers would come off any of my saddles in an emergency ...I can hardly get them off as it is. I've had TWO emergencies where it would have been awesome if they came off, however, that was not the case either time unfortunately. I no longer expect them to come off, and I don't feel anyone should rely on that because most saddles I have ridden in the leathers are quite tricky to get off. 

I prefer to take other safety precautions in the event an emergency should arise. Proper footwear and stirrups that fit you correctly are most important IMHO.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I've only seen leathers come off when a rider is going at speed. 

While I appreciate the safety bars, I recommend all riders learn to use one foot to assist loosening/freeing the other. 

Regardless of discipline.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I do agree with bsms that in general, the English style riders I am around expect that they will fall off and the Western style riders expect they won't. But it's probably also a reason why a person chose the style of riding...many casual riders in my area start out in what they perceive as a more secure saddle and then don't wear helmets. That's another discussion, but I can see how that can be part of the perceived risk.

The saddle is a Freeform, and I've found a plate you can buy for the Sensation saddles made in Canada that has an E-bar. However, that is part of my decision I'm making, since it would be actually cheaper to get safety stirrups since the shipping for that product from Canada is $40 for some reason. 

The stirrup leathers shouldn't come off if the rider's leg is in the proper position. Yet if you are galloping up some of the hills around here, it can be difficult to keep yourself from not touching the horse's back leg with your foot due to gravity. At that point, the galloping motion can "swoop" the stirrup off the bar.

I think it's true about the assumption of risk. It hasn't bothered me in the past when I knew some of my stirrup bars had the safety catches fused closed from rust. This is a helpful discussion. I do try not to be stupid, but there is always risk involved with horses. In general, I like to know if my practices are "foolhardy" or within a normal range of what people accept in safety.


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## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

horselovinguy said:


> Sorry bsms....I don't go for, _"[English riders tend to expect falling and western riders tend to assume they will not."_
> _*That is crap!*_ Accidents happen. Regardless of riding discipline...people fall off!
> Never would I ever get astride "expecting" to fall.


There is an old saying in England

You can't call yourself an experienced horse rider unless you have come off at least 7 times - I've come off more times than I care to count , and at all speeds from walking to a full gallop

There are certain disciplines with English style riding where coming off every once in a while are almost certain - Eventing and Hunting are examples of - if you are going to ride then you are going to come off 

Even riders like World champion William Fox Pitt ( Thoughts to him on his recovery ) expect to come off every so often .


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Nutty Saddler said:


> There is an old saying in England
> 
> You can't call yourself an experienced horse rider unless you have come off at least 7 times - I've come off more times than I care to count , and at all speeds from walking to a full gallop
> 
> ...


_I like that saying...full of truth. 
Shows you are more than a occasional rider...cause everyone takes a fall or two or three at some point...
Well, if based upon how many times you have come off makes you experienced or not...guess I must be one experienced rider :icon_rolleyes:....

Agree, the very best riders in the world do come off.
Certain parts of riding English have much more risk of falls, also agreed.
They are still called accidents.

I've actually seen more__ western ridden horses put the brakes on hard and fast, make a split second turn and unseat their rider. 
The internet is filled with videos of it....

People fall off, *but* I truly don't think people go into riding thinking if they ride one saddle style or another they are going to fall off more....that is just nuts.
However, if that were true, based upon the videos being shown lately, *{don't include jumping} *you would *not* catch me learning to ride western..:falloff:....:shock:

And nutty....that was a spectacular split second in time caught by a camera.
Glad you are OK from that....:wink:

Have a good evening all and .... 
:wave:...
  
_


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Western saddles are known for putting tension on the knees too. Maybe it's because the original cowboys didn't have the time or money to do better, but let's face it, Western stirrups just aren't very well designed. 

Personally I would definitely use safety stirrups with a treeless saddle. But then I'm not comfortable using rope for reins either, which a lot of people do.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think the western stirrups are bigger so you are less likely to get caught up in them.

I have heard a lot of people talking about bad injuries from the safety stirrups. I had no idea, but mostly to little ones as they dismount they are catching their crotches on the hook...?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_People fall off, *but* I truly don't think people go into riding thinking if they ride one saddle style or another they are going to fall off more....that is just nuts."_

Nothing to do with saddle style. A lot to do with what you do while riding. Just as a dressage rider is less likely to come off than a jumper, the western style (long legs, deep in saddle) combined with jogs & lopes puts a person at lower risk of falling.

After my one fall, I asked a rancher friend when he would bail from a horse. He told me if he was certain the horse was about to go off a cliff or cross a busy 4-lane highway...maybe. But he and his family have spent generations riding in this sort of country:








​ 
He told me it was a mind-set: you just refuse to come off. Now, they haven't broken their arms and ribs by NEVER coming off a horse, but they haven't stayed alive riding in country like this, alone, often 30-50 miles from the nearest paved road, before cell phones (and coverage is still minimal today), while coming off without a fight!

Nor do western saddles put pressure on the knees. You turn the stirrups, and ride with a long, loose leg. BRACING in a western stirrup will kill the knees - been there, done that hundreds of times. It is my favorite bad habit - but it is MY fault, not the saddle's!

Fenders and 3" straps are not a bad design. They keep the stirrup very stable compared to my English ones. Keeps sweat off the leg and adds protection from brush. Add a 3-5" wide stirrup tread, and your foot and knee ought to be fine. If they are not, it isn't the saddle that is the problem. Cowboys don't spend 12+ hour days in a saddle that MAKES a person sore.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

To those who think their leather won't come out of the bars in an accident, do not underestimate the force that is applied by a person being ejected from the saddle, it is a heck of a lot more than you putting the leathers on...and are you doing it right I wonder? There is a way of tilting the saddle forward that seems to help the angle and make them slide on just so.....but maybe they are not made the way they used to be.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> I have heard a lot of people talking about bad injuries from the safety stirrups. I had no idea, but mostly to little ones as they dismount they are catching their crotches on the hook...?


My friend who got hung up on a safety stirrup (peacock) said the band broke as it was supposed to, but the top of her shoe got stuck on the hook. She was not wearing boots since she was in "safety stirrups."

Most likely the types of accidents people have also depends on the terrain you are riding in. Quite a few of my falls have been due to the horse slipping. If your horse's body reaches near-horizontal, gravity overrides and you come off the side. 

In all my falls I've never failed to lose the stirrups, and often they hit me in the head on my way down. I consider Western saddles less safe, because English saddles just let me go smoothly (other than the stirrups flying around like wild swallows) while Western saddles have on occasion battered my whole body before I reached the ground. 

I am happy to bail, myself, in a few situations. I have ridden some real Scooby Doos.








You don't want to try to stay on if the saddle has slid so far to one side there's no chance of righting it, or if it has slid back and the cinch is now a bucking strap. Or if the horse achieves a rear that is too vertical, or if we are about to run off a cliff (don't gallop behind the gal who has "been here before" but mixes up her lefts and rights). I also would bail if I was fast approaching a large, solid obstacle and the other side was concrete, slippery or unknown.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

bsms said:


> "_People fall off, *but* I truly don't think people go into riding thinking if they ride one saddle style or another they are going to fall off more....that is just nuts."_
> 
> *Nothing to do with saddle style. He told me it was a mind-set*


Now this....*^^^^^^^^^^^*.... and the rest of what your friend made comment of I agree with.

Like I've said, "Accidents happen"...
:runninghorse2:...

....


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Several thoughts on this. 

First thing, _boots should have a decent heel to them, to prevent the foot sliding right through the stirrup, western or English._

English stirrups should have a good fingers clearance from the side of the foot and the edge of the iron, more, the foot might slide through, less the foot get stuck. 

*Suitable footwear and stirrups is as important as a well fitting helmet.*

As for falling, it is far more difficult to fall from a western saddle than an English one. 

The last _bad _fall I had was when the horse came down with me on the road, I went straight over his head and landed on the top of mine before going over flat on my back. _We were walking at the time._
I can tell you I thought my neck had been pushed into my body! If I hadn't had a good helmet on I don't know where I would be. I wasn't doing anything risky or dangerous, just walking. 

Even with tight fitting bars the weight of a order will pull the leather off. 

*The clips at the back of the bars should never be put up, only if a horse is being led without a rider. *

As someone said, if the bars are tight and it is hard to get the leathers on, put the stirrups on the leathers bend the leather a few inches below the buckle so it is looped in your hand. Lift the back of the saddle up so it is resting on the front and the stirrup will slip on easily.

The only time I would ride wearing trainers or other unsuitable shoes would be if I was riding bareback. I certainly would not ride with stirrups fixed to the saddle English


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_You don't want to try to stay on if the saddle has slid so far to one side there's no chance of righting it, or if it has slid back and the cinch is now a bucking strap. Or if the horse achieves a rear that is too vertical, or if we are about to run off a cliff.._."

My rancher friend would agree about the cliff...maybe. Although a horse can turn darn fast, too. But if your saddle fits, it shouldn't often slip off to one side. My western one did once, but that was because it did NOT fit the horse right. Same for sliding back - although a lot of western riders use a breast collar that they say helps with both. I may try one someday, just to see.

This is what I meant by it being a "mind-set". It also plays into "perceived risk". If I'm riding in a large arena with soft dirt - which I've only done once - then falling doesn't seem like a big deal. It might not in a grassy meadow - another thing I've never ridden in! Bailing out of a saddle wouldn't seem like a big deal there, either. But if you are riding alone in the San Rafael Swell (one of my favorite areas in the west and on my "must ride someday" list), bailing off a saddle & horse can mean busted bones where no one will find you and you're 50 miles from any paved roads. On the ranch where my friend lives, it is normal to drop a herder, horse and dog off at a camp and promise to come back in a week to check on them - and no cell phone coverage. It includes working when the temperatures drop way below zero.

That sort of riding is what western riding is rooted in, just as English styles are rooted in dressage and hunting. The differences have led to different tack, but also to a different culture.

Perceived risk may not be the same as actual risk. Many people take up jumping without ever looking at studies to see if it is any riskier than not jumping. Maybe all western riders should wear helmets. Maybe not. But people judge risk by what they've seen and what they hear about, and I think the culture of western riding emphasizes staying in the saddle and thus puts less emphasis on what happens if you come out of the saddle. I may be wrong, but my theory seems to explain a lot of tack and behavior.

Internet picture of San Rafael Swell, Utah:










BTW - loose cowboy boots function like a safety bar. If the boot gets caught in a stirrup, your foot comes out of the boot. With one, the stirrup strap comes off the saddle. With the other, the stirrup and boot stay with the saddle, but your foot does not. Either way, you part company with your horse. That is why my tight fitting cowboy boots are for formal wear. You couldn't pay me to ride a horse in sneakers, unless bareback.​


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Foxhunter said:


> *Suitable footwear and stirrups is as important as a well fitting helmet.*
> 
> The only time I would ride wearing trainers or other unsuitable shoes would be if I was riding bareback.





bsms said:


> You couldn't pay me to ride a horse in sneakers, unless bareback.


But there is a simple fix for that.. caged stirrups! I ride in sneakers all the time as they are much more comfortable than any heeled boot or shoe I have tried for long distance. So 'suitable' really depends on the _entire_ set-up.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Sorry but I have never liked sneakers in any shape or form. I find they make my feet sweat, so they itch, never warm in winter, to hot in summer. 

Give me a good pair of leather shoes/boots any day.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

when I think back, I rode hundreds and hundreds of miles in sneakers and no helmet:-(. I would not do this today.
In the 1990's I rode a horse for a friend, I was his last stop on the way to the knackers as he was the spookiest horse there ever was, dumped all his riders, and the owners were afraid that he would kill some one.
Since I lived and rode alone I decided to get a pair of safety stirrups, the ones with the elastic sides as I thought this would be a good safety feature if I ever came off him. By this time I was riding with proper footwear and a helmet ( would have worn two helmets if I thought it would help)
I always ride with the safety stirrups now. If I ever ride in someone else's English saddle, I always check the stirrup bar and make sure it's down. Surprising how many ride with them up.
One thing I have thought of, which is why I like the safety stirrups is, if a rider comes off on the right side and the left stirrup comes over the back of the horse to the right side, the bars are not going to be of any use if your foot is caught in the left stirrup. The last time I came off this is what happened, my foot was not caught but with the elastic sides it would have come free if it was caught up in the stirrup.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

A foot does not need to go all the way through a stirrup for a rider to be dragged. The few times I have seen a rider dragged it is because their foot twisted sideways when they fell off. 

I would not ride in a saddle unless the safety bar was down. 



farmpony84 said:


> I have heard a lot of people talking about bad injuries from the safety stirrups. I had no idea, but mostly to little ones as they dismount they are catching their crotches on the hook...?


There is a push to ban hooked safety stirrups at horse shows because too many have been injured. This is an article written by Dr. Armand Leone. Armand is a past president of the USET.
Leone Equestrian Legal Counsel – USEF Should Immediately Ban Hooked Safety Stirrups – Theyâ€™re Simply Not Safe – August 2015


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

from updownrider
"There is a push to ban hooked safety stirrups at horse shows because too many have been injured. This is an article written by Dr. Armand Leone. Armand is a past president of the USET.
Leone Equestrian Legal Counsel – USEF Should Immediately Ban Hooked Safety Stirrups – Theyâ€™re Simply "

That's an interesting article. I have ridden with these stirrups for 25 years with no problem, even now as I'm older and have back and knee problems and my dismount is somewhat awkward with me kind of laying across my horse's back and then sliding down. Not good according to this article. 
From now on I will take the left stirrup and bring it across the horse's wither before my ungainly and awkward dismount.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

How come people think it's harder to fall of in a western saddle, that's just ridiculous !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

gypsygirl said:


> How come people think it's harder to fall of in a western saddle, that's just ridiculous !
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I dunno... I have a better chance of staying aboard in my western saddle than when I'm one of my polo saddles. *shrug*

I have a friend who starts all his young horses in a polo saddle and only uses a western saddle if he is going out to doctor something (so he can rope). He and his brother ranch together. This guy will come out of a western saddle pretty easy it seems.

One of my kids bought an old "bear trap" aka "widow maker" western saddle. We got a horse in that sunfished really bad. I put that saddle on the filly. When she broke in two I could not get out! Had a heck of a time. I never rode that thing again.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

gypsygirl said:


> How come people think it's harder to fall of in a western saddle, that's just ridiculous !


I watched my oldest daughter slow-roll off an Austalian-style saddle - just got off center to one side and then couldn't get back over the horse. With a horn, she could have pulled her weight back into the center of the saddle/horse.

A western saddle is deeper than the jump saddle I used to ride (flats only). Makes it harder to slide off the back when the horse explodes forward - not impossible, but harder. And while I currently ride a slick fork saddle, it would be tougher to slide up and over the front end of it than my old jump saddle when the horse makes a sudden stop. There is just more in front and behind you with a western saddle, and a horn to help if you start to slide sideways.

For a horse who spins, I'd rate an Australian saddle easier to stay in than western or English - the poleys will slam into your thigh and keep your hips aligned with the horse regardless of what you do on your own.

I've never tried a dressage saddle, so I can't comment on that variation. None of my horses are buckers, so I can't speak to that either.

This Australian-style has a horn - also kind of nice for a horse who jumps sideways - which the horse in the picture was fond of doing:








​
This western has no swells and a darn slick seat, but it would take some doing to slide off the front - or back:
















​ 
This one just doesn't have as much to keep a fellow from sliding forward, backwards, sideways or when spinning - not impossible to stay on, but it requires more out of the rider:








​


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I'd like to ride in that Utah country except it looks very hot and it seems getting water might be a problem. 

There is a point if you do enough rough riding where the things a horse could do to get you off would take you off just as easily in a Western or English saddle, so things like swells and poleys start to look like ways to get injured. In the past, I would choose a more secure style of saddle for what might be a "wild" ride, but over time the extra stuff just got in the way. If you have to suddenly lay out flat and squeeze under a low hanging branch, the horn is an impediment, and if you don't know how to ride a "launch," as we call a zero-to-thirty, you'll come over the back of a deep cantle, it's just a bumpier way to get _way_ behind the motion. 

As someone said, jockeys don't need secure saddles to stay with the horse, just stirrups and they don't need short stirrups either. A lot of exercise riders use much longer stirrups, because it's about using your body correctly and not the saddle or the stirrup length (to a point).









In my experience it doesn't matter if you have the stirrup bar keepers up or down. For a secure rider, something that will take the stirrup off a normal English saddle (not talking about the extra short, swoop bars) will also take that bar down and the leather will come off. I've seen it happen a number of times, so I don't consider it safer to put it down. 

A saddle that fits should never end up in a strange location...however, it's not every time you ride that you choose the saddle or tack up the horse. Or you might not realize exactly what kind of terrain you'll be heading over.

I didn't realize safety stirrups were so dangerous...that is very good to know. I could see getting hooked in the eye if things were flying around enough. 

Does anyone know if Icelandic style stirrups really do prevent hang-ups?


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I don't know guys, *I* personally think western saddles are more secure. 

Of course you can come out of them, but I do think your odds of staying on are greatly increased.

I ride in a in either a Wade or A-fork style western saddle with a 4-5" cantle. I've come out of it a few times, especially with my spooky colt. So I made a couple of modifications by adding bucking rolls (similar to the polys on an Aussie saddle) and I made a rubbery seat saver out of that mesh shelf liner stuff. So my slick seat is no longer slick. I also have one saddle that is rough-out and that does the same thing....gives me a more secure seat. I've actually gotten a bruise or two from the bucking rolls on a sudden spook n' spin but I stayed on the horse. To me that is proof the bucking rolls helped keep me on.

I'm sure I will eventually take another fall (or several) but I know I am more secure riding now then I ever have been.

I am pretty sure I would get dumped out of an English saddle on a fairly regular basis and I really don't want to get hurt if I can help it. Like BSMS says, I also have a mentality of staying on the horse come hell or high water. I don't think I have ever intentionally bailed off a horse, although I could see a circumstance or two where I would (like a cliff or highway). But even then, who has time to think? 

But I do try to maximize my chances of staying on the horse with my tack. I also ride in a helmet and sneakers. The times I have come off, I generally loose at least one sneaker and have to retrieve it. I had a friend that thought that sneakers were terribly dangerous.......and I think that her western boots are dangerous because I can imagine a boot getting stuck. Hopefully this way, even if my shoe gets stuck, my foot will slide right out as in the past. But I really don't want to test my theory if I can help it! 

I guess I just wanted to chime in that yes, I think western saddles are a LOT more secure than english.

By the way (and back on topic), I think the reason you want safety stirrups with a treeless saddle is because the tree helps hold the saddle to the horse. With treeless I can only imagine that your saddle will be much more likely to slide sideways. I know I once owned a flex-tree (and have known others with flex trees) and unless your horse has good withers they are almost too slippery to mount from the ground. I can only imagine treeless is the same or worse.

You know what I think the most dangerous "saddle" out there is? A bareback pad with stirrups. You rely on your stirrups to help you balance and you do it automatically. You are much better off riding bareback without stirrups because of the lack of tree in a bareback pad. I am guessing a treeless saddle has some of the same risks. When the crud hits the fan, your stirrups betray you because there is nothing there to help hold it to the horse.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I've actually gotten a bruise or two from the bucking rolls on a sudden spook n' spin but I stayed on the horse. To me that is proof the bucking rolls helped keep me on.


OR you got some bruises you wouldn't have had. :wink:


trailhorserider said:


> I don't think I have ever intentionally bailed off a horse, although I could see a circumstance or two where I would (like a cliff or highway). But even then, who has time to think?


I've done the cliff with one friend, another friend did the bolt toward the highway. We've discussed it, there's lots of time to think. Your brain speeds up with adrenaline. It's making the decision that's the difficult part. I knew I was going to bail as we approached the cliff, it was just the timing that was tricky. My friend was in front, she took a left turn thinking she knew the road but it led up to a dead-end landing made to park logging trucks and ended abruptly in a cliff edge. So as we galloped up full speed, we suddenly realized what was about to happen. She pulled up, but we were too close to the edge for her horse to react. I tried to pull up and got nothing. At the last second, her horse saw that the land disappeared, and he slammed butt into the ground. My horse would have leaped after him if he'd gone into space, but she followed his lead and jammed on the brakes. We skidded up to the edge with the horses' front legs. In my mind, I was going to leave the horse as the horse's front legs hit the edge. 



trailhorserider said:


> By the way (and back on topic), I think the reason you want safety stirrups with a treeless saddle is because the tree helps hold the saddle to the horse. With treeless I can only imagine that your saddle will be much more likely to slide sideways.


The Freeform has a foam structure and it stays put better than my treed saddle, which is nice. I suppose if a rider ended up with all the weight dragging off one side, the saddle would be more likely to come over the top, but my horses are pretty round anyway so I think any saddle would do that on them. Maybe then you'd be more likely to get your foot out since the stirrup would be lower down?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

updownrider said:


> There is a push to ban hooked safety stirrups at horse shows because too many have been injured. This is an article written by Dr. Armand Leone. Armand is a past president of the USET.
> Leone Equestrian Legal Counsel – USEF Should Immediately Ban Hooked Safety Stirrups – Theyâ€™re Simply Not Safe – August 2015


In all the years I have had people riding with these stirrups I have never seen such a thing.

To ban them for one incident is ridiculous.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> How come people think it's harder to fall of in a western saddle, that's just ridiculous !
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe it's not harder to fall off, but it's easier to stay on. :wink:


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Foxhunter said:


> In all the years I have had people riding with these stirrups I have never seen such a thing.
> To ban them for *one incident* is ridiculous.


Bolding mine

It is NOT one incident. 

From the article


> There is a *long history *of riders getting caught on the hook part of the safety stirrups when dismounting or falling. Riders have had the hook catch their belt or clothes on the way down. Some riders have had the hook rip through their clothing and cause mutilating injuries to the abdomen, genitals and groin.


Also


> I have seen *two cases just this year *when riders, one a boy and one a girl, suffered horrible laceration injuries from a safety stirrup hook while dismounting. Both required major surgery and will have permanent injury.


I've never seen an injury either, but that does not mean there are not injuries. With as many injuries claimed, then I agree with the proposal to ban them. I am not going to doubt the experienced doctor-lawyer Grand Prix rider past USET president that wrote the article.

Foxhunter- The proposal to ban would be for US rated competitions, so you can continue to use the stirrups.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

updownrider said:


> Bolding mine
> 
> It is NOT one incident.
> 
> ...


Personally I have never used them but have taught a lot of children that do.

As said, I have never even had one catch clothing in one of these stirrups.

I wonder if those used in the US have a more pointed catch? 

DUH, Of course, over there, majority of children are riding horses and dismounting they would be sliding down the horse's side and the iron could catch them on the face I guess.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"the horn is an impediment"

I'm not skinny, but the horn on my saddles (australian-style and western) don't stop me from leaning forward to get under a branch - and I'm not exactly skinny. The horn of a barrel racing or cutting saddle might, but mine are not the tall, skinny type.

I'm not buying the "no mechanical aids" theory. If my horse is acting up, then I can take protective measures in an English saddle. But Mia used to jump sideways, or spin extremely hard, and do so without warning. Her most violent spins and jumps took place when everything seemed totally relaxed. I eventually ended up riding her defensively, and the last 5 months of riding with Bandit have involved learning to ride relaxed instead.

But yes, the Australian poleys put some large bruises on my thigh when she just spun very hard without warning. Would an experienced rider stay on her in an English saddle in that situation? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think there are many horses like Mia, who would act that way after years of riding. But the point is the poleys kept me on her (by keeping my hips aligned) when I was a "6 months inexperience" kind of rider. IOW, it made it EASIER to stay on.

BTW - Bandit might slide sideways a little without much warning, but he has ALWAYS given warning if he is thinking about spinning hard. Mia? None. And Bandit has yet to jump 6' sideways and then look at me as if to ask how we got there. He has some faults, but he is mentally a much easier ride.

Same with a horn. I'm not suggesting anyone ride around with the horn in one hand all day. But if things get dicey and your center of gravity shifts too far to one side, you still can stay on with a western saddle - grab the horn and pull your weight back over the horse. But if your weight gets too far to one side in an English saddle, you ARE coming off.

Of course, the answer is to never let your weight get too far to one side. Nice, but the fact remains the horn gives you an option for staying on when things get bad that just doesn't exist in an English saddle.

If you ever watch a barrel racer going around a barrel in slow motion, you'll see the rider use the horn to help her keep her weight where it needs to be in the saddle. When a competition-bred and trained barrel horse slows from a gallop, does a 360, and explodes into a gallop again, all in about 1.5 seconds, it is obviously tough to stay on.

Of course, they also do barrel racing patterns bareback at times, but those runs are slower. Folks also run them in English saddles sometimes, but I doubt they would be competitive doing so.

No one argues that jumping a 5' oxer is as easy in a barrel racing saddle as a jump saddle, and my slick-seat, slick-fork western saddle would make it harder to win a barrel race. 

I will grant this, though: Years ago, maura (a former moderator) said she preferred to ride young horses in her jump saddle. Why? Because, she said, she had spent her life riding in a jump saddle, and all her instinctive reactions were based on being in a jump saddle. So for HER, the jump saddle was a better choice.

And yes, the best reaction to a horse doing X violently changes from a jump saddle to a ranch saddle, so what one is used to using counts. Heels down, for example, seems to really help me in a sudden stop in a jump or Australian saddle, but doesn't seem to make much difference in my western one.

But mechanically, some saddles are easier to stay in when the horse hits the fan. Some are better for jumping obstacles. Some are better for cutting cattle. I've seen videos of guys jumping a 4 foot fence in a western ranch saddle, but I wouldn't call it just as easy.

BTW - my BIL refuses to even set foot in a corral. Some years ago, in South Africa, he had an Arabian bolt and race toward a 300 foot cliff. He was certain they were about to go off, and he felt stuck in his saddle, when she turned at the edge of the cliff and ran another mile back down before stopping. He swears one of his legs was past the edge of the cliff. He's never gotten on or even touched another horse since. Can't blame him. But he'll ride his motorcycle in heavy traffic, which scares the living daylights out of me.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

bsms said:


> Nor do western saddles put pressure on the knees. You turn the stirrups, and ride with a long, loose leg. BRACING in a western stirrup will kill the knees - been there, done that hundreds of times. It is my favorite bad habit - but it is MY fault, not the saddle's!


LOL Why so defensive? Yeah, I don't expect many cowboys had patellofemoral syndrome. But we're not in the Wild West anymore. 

I rode in the Rockies on a flat, thin Icelandic saddle on flat-backed, thin horse. You don't need a Western saddle to have security, just experience.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"You don't need a Western saddle to have security, just experience."

To the extent you need experience, it is harder. The test of how secure a saddle is BY DESIGN is how well a new rider can stay on. 

"But we're not in the Wild West anymore."

I dunno. I was shot at multiple times a few weeks ago while trail riding. And my SIL has come across drug caches while riding his dirt bike in the desert. And there are signs in some of the local parks, warning that the park is not safe.

If my primary interest was security, I'd have stuck to my Aussie-style saddle. But I like western saddles. Maybe even more important, my HORSES like western saddles for the riding we do:










But for the original question: western saddles don't use safety bars because A) there is less concern about coming off, and B) slightly loose cowboy boots are the functional equivalent - who cares what stays with the saddle, as long as the rider's FOOT does not?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> Personally I have never used them but have taught a lot of children that do.
> 
> As said, I have never even had one catch clothing in one of these stirrups.
> 
> ...


I have also not only never seen but never heard of that. Nor would I consider the hook at all pointy. It is in line with the rest of the stirrup and rounded. Just a little (rounded) break in the metal for the elastic to sit. Maybe there is a different model I've never seen? How about banning that model?

You shouldn't be scrambling all over the horse anyways.

One person who is around a lot of riders has seen 2 incidents in one year... let's ban them!

Western saddle horns can cause a lot of damage if you're scrambling around (or something happens)... should probably ban those too... I'm sure it's FAR more likely people get hurt on those!!

ETA- and for the original question I think the type of riding (english = jumping = flying through the air on unpredictable animal) as well as the design of the saddle/stirrup come into play (thin narrow). While you could get dragged in a western saddle an English is more likely to put you in a position to risk it. Also agree that it would be a lot easier to slide out of a western boot than an English one. That suckers not going anywhere:








Also don't know the history of the design but English/western have a different mindset. While a generalization of course there really are differences and English riders tend to be more safety concious/"hypervigilant"? lol.

Personally not something I think of a lot. And thanks for the tip of how to move the saddle to get a difficult leather on! Will have to try though I'm pretty sure I've (unintentionally) done that technique before and had it not work!

The whole falling off thing is ridiculous. Regardless of the level of security one saddle offers vs another you really think they'd make one less safe intentionally? Absurd.

I will say overall you are more likely to be doing things that rely on use of stirrups/bracing than in English. While I have never worked a cow or anything or done a top level barrel race while I'm sure the goal is to NOT be bracing on the saddle I'm sure naturally more force is put on the stirrups than you would find in any English event. Including jumping. There is just more forceful lateral work to be found.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

The nearest I ever came to getting my foot stuck in the stirrup was whilst following hounds in Eire. Two of us jumped a fence together, horses collided in the air and my horse was close to a tree, my stirrup hit the tree and buckled at the side trapping my foot. Stainless steel is, evidently more pliant than nickel. 

Funny thing was that apart from a minor bruise on the top of my foot, I never had a mark.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

To add to my post with the continuation of different styles- the more force on the lateral work would make the occurrence of the catch accidentally releasing more possible and also more dangerous.

I will say too, ok the hook wasn't rounded quite enough and someone (somehow..) got caught on it. This hook is TINY. It would be a freak accident for something to get caught and even if (slightly sharp or just becoming sharp due to force) it's really not going to do THAT much damage...

I've never owned safety stirrups.. I just ride. No problems.

In fact as someone who has worked at a lesson barn I can use an example of a girl using the above stirrups who continuously broke the elastic due to her poor foot position. Something that wouldn't happen in a regular stirrup as the stirrup would train her foot itself.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

As far as the elastics breaking, for the most part, it shouldn't affect the rider. The person who continuously broke them is an exception and should ride with regular stirrups. For me, they don't break but just come undone when caught on something.
I have lost them numerous times in the thick bush and I don't even know it until I am home and untacking, in fact sometimes when I mount up, I notice the elastic is gone and I don't have a replacement handy so I just ride without it.
I lost several and got tired of going to the tack shop for more so I started using the thick elastics from the broccoli that I buy in the Supermarket and just use them for trail riding, if one comes off, no problem. I usually keep a couple in my pocket and if I notice one missing I just put on another while I am going down the trail.
Something I read once was that a cowboy was tossed from his horse and got a foot caught and was being dragged by a run away horse. 
He had his gun in the holster and he was able to get it and shot the horse. Does this sound believable? Has anyone ever heard of this happening?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Woodhaven said:


> Something I read once was that a cowboy was tossed from his horse and got a foot caught and was being dragged by a run away horse.
> He had his gun in the holster and he was able to get it and shot the horse. Does this sound believable? Has anyone ever heard of this happening?


I have heard that story. I can believe it, but don't know if it really happened.

Some western boots come off easier. Some, with 18" tops, most popular with buckaroo type hands, do not.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The 'shoot the horse' idea has been around since the 1800s. Folks may have talked about it, and maybe even tried it.

But FWIW - OFF TOPIC ALERT - the FBI says if you shoot someone in the heart, there is enough residual blood pressure for them to stay active for up to 40 seconds. Quite a few deer have made it 100-400 yards (and much further) after being shot with a rifle. And IIRC, one horse was shot 9 times in a Civil War battle. When his rider tried to swap him out, the horse got loose again and followed his rider for the remainder of the battle - with 9 bullets in him. The horse survived. 

I've been known to carry a 357 in a shoulder holster while riding. Trying to draw and shoot my horse while being dragged...well, I think my horse is safe. My slightly loose Red Wing boots (11" shaft) and Tony Lama boots (10" shaft with a deep split) will slide off my foot at a heavy sneeze, which is how I like it for riding. 

Everyone needs to figure out for themselves what risks they think they incur and how to reduce them to an acceptable level. I miss English saddles, though not my CAIR-panel Bates. A slightly used, flocked dressage saddle without the big honking knee rolls sounds interesting - if I can find one that fits a slender horse. Seems like dressage saddles are now built mostly for warmblood types rather than skinny Arabians with steep shoulders. Then I'll pair it up with some caged endurance stirrups. Can't look any stranger than when I rode Mia in a jump saddle with 4-bar Australian stirrups and a Cavalry-shank western curb.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

bsms if you find an Isabell Werth dressage saddle, it is very comfortable and secure, I took the knee rolls out for a better fit. It has the adjustable gullet and the black one fit my narrow horse very well. I use it for everything and it is great on the trails and very comfortable. The only drawback is, you can't take as much "stuff" with you. my sister's dressage saddle has a couple of rings put on the back so she can carry more.
In the past I had a Stubben Siegfried which I used on some very spooky horses and I mangaged to always stay on, also did some endurance rides with that saddle.
Of the two I prefer the wintec.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> Also don't know the history of the design but English/western have a different mindset. While a generalization of course there really are differences and English riders tend to be more safety concious/"hypervigilant"? lol.


In my opinion, history has a great deal to do with it...English style riding has a very very long history, and if we go back to England itself, 1000's of years of development, many many 100's with the horse. As in many places the horse was the car/tractor/bicycle, engine of his time, all work, all practical. Then the super wealthy classes began to emerge and horses became sport and recreation, riding styles and tack began to change to reflect this. As time moved on less and less horses were 100% work horses, and they became more and more used for leisure activities, and again more development of riding styles and tack to suit this new world.

In America, the horse and horse riding is still relatively young, and if you look at the time spans, we are now seeing the change to the horse being a leisure animal, but a lot of the tack and equipment and styles of riding are still firmly rooted in what cowboys and the like found practical for their everyday lives. As someone mentioned, the horn on the western saddle, well, apart from hooking my reins on it, and leaning on it, I really don't need a horn, I'm never going to rope anything....

:rofl::rofl: I'm sure I had a point to make when I set out, but it's gone now...........forgive me, blow to the head yesterday, still feeling a bit groggy this morning
http://www.horseforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Well I follow and agree lol.

By history of the design I meant "design of the safety stirrup with hooks/design of the release mechanism".

You can also say it's designed to be more adjustable/customizable than a western saddle.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Woodhaven said:


> As far as the elastics breaking, for the most part, it shouldn't affect the rider. The person who continuously broke them is an exception and should ride with regular stirrups. For me, they don't break but just come undone when caught on something.
> I have lost them numerous times in the thick bush and I don't even know it until I am home and untacking, in fact sometimes when I mount up, I notice the elastic is gone and I don't have a replacement handy so I just ride without it.
> I lost several and got tired of going to the tack shop for more so I started using the thick elastics from the broccoli that I buy in the Supermarket and just use them for trail riding, if one comes off, no problem. I usually keep a couple in my pocket and if I notice one missing I just put on another while I am going down the trail.
> Something I read once was that a cowboy was tossed from his horse and got a foot caught and was being dragged by a run away horse.
> He had his gun in the holster and he was able to get it and shot the horse. Does this sound believable? Has anyone ever heard of this happening?


Hair ties 

Yes it was sort of just an aside irrelevant point that there can be a downside to the safety stirrup lol. I wouldn't just ride without an elastic as I do think it would make it more likely to get something caught on but that's pretty much the only reason and in a pinch it wouldn't be a big deal. You shouldn't need the sides, they are just there to hold the stirrup up/keep it on in a pinch.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

yogiwick I never thought of hair ties. Last fall a friend bought me some proper elastics because she didn't like the bright colour elastics on my stirrups. I put them on but by spring they were gone and back to the elastics again.
I'll get some black hair ties and this will probably please her.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Those of us who still work with horses as partners are saddened by the notion that horses are being seen as hobbies. Very sad.

It cheapens and belittles their contribution. 

Y'all would not have healthy protein in abundance without the horse. 

I'm thinking horses will will never get the credit deserved and many will never know what happened to the beef they used to be able to get.


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