# Budweiser & Big Lick



## texasgal

Ugh, just one more reason I don't drink Budweiser...


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## SmallTownGypsy

I just posted this on FB a bit ago:
I have been posting a link to the story and some info on every local news page I can find. I hope everyone does the same! If even ONE media outlet picks up the story, it could go nationwide and gain enough attention to convince Budweiser to pull their sponsorship. It will also bring the abuse even further into the spotlight. I will add a comment to this that shows what I have been posting.

COMMENT: Budweiser is sponsoring The 75th Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration in Shelbyville, TN. Amazing that a company that has an equine association would show support for a show that is so well-known to encourage the horrific practice of soring to obtain the unnatural "Big Lick" gait.
Contact Budweiser and voice your disapproval for their support. Hoping news station will pick this up. The more we reach the sonner Bud will pull their sponsorship, the sooner the Big Lick is eliminated from competition.
Roy Exum: The Budweiser Clydesdales Wept - 08/05/2013 - Chattanoogan.com


I have had one news station say they will bring up the story in their meeting. That give me hope. Share with all local news outlets you can contact. I have been doing so through their FB pages.


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## texasgal

I know they'll sell alot of beer. And I know that's why they are doing it. But you'd think with HORSES being the symbol of Budweiser .....

What.Were.They.Thinking... besides $$


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## Roperchick

*sniff* but I love bud!

In all seriousness STG I put that on my FB. Hope you don't mind and hope they pull their sponsorship.


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## CandyCanes

I cried at that. The B****rds. They need a taste of their own medicine. Exactly their own medicine. Chains and whips and the whole lot. 
:------(


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## SmallTownGypsy

I don't mind at all. Sometimes word of mouth is all we have and we certainly need to use it.


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## MyBoyPuck

Emails folks. Send Budweiser emails and voice your opinions. I'm sure they're already hearing plenty.


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## Saddlebag

There was a great hue and cry when men in prisons were treated like that, yet somehow it's been ok to treat animals like that.


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## toto

Im reckoning this is more about misinformation -- what does budweiser and soring have to do with each other? You mean budweiser is so horrible because they want to make money off shelbyvilles biggest event that brings in millions to Their city? 

Every paded walker aint sored by the way- those bad people that do the soring end up behind bars and banned from the TWHBEA and showing at their events- to add. 

Dont get me wrong- when i first seen a walker with them big pads on i thought it was silly looking and i do today- no need to say every padded walker is sored though- its false.


i dont mean any disrespect but this thread is ignorant.. couldnt ignore it. 


And i had to add something else-- when the padded shows are in town its more than just the show ring-- the whole town of shelbyville cellebrates.. its not 'big lick day' its 'the walking horse celebration ceremony' Budweiser could be sponsoring other events or venues in the local area too.. ill be sure to be there and 'investigate' the budweiser..


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## Roperchick

toto said:


> i dont mean any disrespect but this thread is ignorant.. couldnt ignore it.
> *Ignorant?! Outrage!!!! outrage!!!:wink:
> 
> Haha im just kidding. But really. I can see your point of view. But it sure would make a statement for sure if budweiser pulled out because of the "big lick cruelty"
> *
> 
> * Especially for non horsey folk....when I ask my friends what they think when they think horses they say "the big brown fluffy ones in the budweiser commercials during superbowl" so if their "big fluffy superbowl beer horses" said they wouldnt support it...that would be an eye opener for them haha
> 
> *
> 
> And i had to add something else-- when the padded shows are in town its more than just the show ring-- the whole town of shelbyville cellebrates.. its not 'big lick day' its 'the walking horse celebration ceremony' Budweiser could be sponsoring other events or venues in the local area too.. ill be sure to be there and 'investigate' the budweiser..
> 
> *have some for me lol*


Ignorant? psh. Smh lol


Butreally....make sure to THOROUGHLY investigate their beverages ; P


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## BigNickMontana

Making those horses bounce like that, man pretty dumb looking, pretty stupid thing to do, and yeah, I call it cruel. 

At the same time though I don't think Budweiser is condoning it, they are a big company, in fact they are a huge company, with that they have a lot of people there and with having so many people there I am sure this decision came from someone who knows very little about horses who said "Hey this is a good event we can sponsor" Why, because sponsoring events is how they make money, and that is the name of the game and I have no problem with that. 

On the other hand, the guy in the video abusing the horses, well lets just say id like to introduce him to my German Shepherd and then pour a little of that caustic in the open wounds.


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## SmallTownGypsy

BigNickMontana said:


> At the same time though I don't think Budweiser is condoning it, they are a big company, in fact they are a huge company, with that they have a lot of people there and with having so many people there I am sure this decision came from someone who knows very little about horses who said "Hey this is a good event we can sponsor" Why, because sponsoring events is how they make money, and that is the name of the game and I have no problem with that.


Other companies have pulled sponsorship because of the ties the show has to such abuse. So if they have the knowledge to pull out I have no reason to think that Budweiser would be any different in lacking the knowledge. Needless to say, after the outcry on their FB page, they know now. Many are boycotting.


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## SmallTownGypsy

toto said:


> Im reckoning this is more about misinformation -- what does budweiser and soring have to do with each other? You mean budweiser is so horrible because they want to make money off shelbyvilles biggest event that brings in millions to Their city?


If other companies can pull out of sponsoring because of the allegations of abuse linked to this show than it is not unreasonable to try to get Budweiser to do the same.



toto said:


> Every paded walker aint sored by the way- those bad people that do the soring end up behind bars and banned from the TWHBEA and showing at their events- to add.
> 
> Dont get me wrong- when i first seen a walker with them big pads on i thought it was silly looking and i do today- no need to say every padded walker is sored though- its false.


I never said EVERY padded walker is sored. However, this show has classes for exhibiting the Big Lick. If the show would just remove those classes I think it would do a world of good. And as for all the offenders going to jail. You are wrong. There is a repeat offender who is acting as a judge at this year's celebration. 




toto said:


> i dont mean any disrespect but this thread is ignorant.. couldnt ignore it.


Well, thank you ever so for being so respectful. 




toto said:


> And i had to add something else-- when the padded shows are in town its more than just the show ring-- the whole town of shelbyville cellebrates.. its not 'big lick day' its 'the walking horse celebration ceremony' Budweiser could be sponsoring other events or venues in the local area too.. ill be sure to be there and 'investigate' the budweiser..


If Big Lick is not such a big deal then hopefully they will do away with it. If they are supposed to be celebrating the Tennessee Walker perhaps they could celebrate what is natural about it, rather than praise and honor those who do whatever it takes to get that unnatural gait from their horses. Just a thought. Enjoy your beer.


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## BigNickMontana

SmallTownGypsy said:


> Other companies have pulled sponsorship because of the ties the show has to such abuse. So if they have the knowledge to pull out I have no reason to think that Budweiser would be any different in lacking the knowledge. Needless to say, after the outcry on their FB page, they know now. Many are boycotting.


Right what I am saying is that who ever made the decision is probably 32 flavors of clueless about it, and hopefully this will draw some light on the subject.


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## toto

SmallTownGypsy said:


> If other companies can pull out of sponsoring because of the allegations of abuse linked to this show than it is not unreasonable to try to get Budweiser to do the same.


Why would budweiser pull out of sponsorship? People gonna start saying theyre soring the clydesdales if they dont? Lol. There is no abuse in the show- it aint been shown yet, lol. 




> I never said EVERY padded walker is sored. However, this show has classes for exhibiting the Big Lick. If the show would just remove those classes I think it would do a world of good. And as for all the offenders going to jail. You are wrong. There is a repeat offender who is acting as a judge at this year's celebration.


There is no such thing as 'big lick class'. There not removing the twh wgc classes from the celebration any time soon- thats the money making classes people come from all over the world to see and spend lot of money in shelbyville too.. whos the judge?




> Well, thank you ever so for being so respectful.


 youre welcome- i like to keep it respectful. 







> If Big Lick is not such a big deal then hopefully they will do away with it. If they are supposed to be celebrating the Tennessee Walker perhaps they could celebrate what is natural about it, rather than praise and honor those who do whatever it takes to get that unnatural gait from their horses. Just a thought. Enjoy your beer.


They wont- its the big money generator for the city- it is a celebration the whole town celebrates the walking horse- they use the money earned from the people that come to see the paded walkers win wgc to fix up the city and donate a lot of the proceedings to charities in the city too.

youre looking at it in the wrong light-- it aint about hurting horses those people get jailed and no one wants them to touch their show horses! You say the word 'sore' in shelbyville.. dare ya, lol. 

Thanks i will enjoy quite a few and ride in the walking horse wgc show too. ;-)


Forgot to tell you there is other classes than just the padded classes- there is natural classes light shod classes halter classes country pleasure classes etcetra -- its the twhbea celebration show theyve got it all not just 'big lick'


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## stevenson

I believe I saw that same video a few years ago. That was one specific trainer, I think he was jailed .
Not all breeders and trainers are abusive. They do use the pads on the hoof, but the soring is illegal at a sanctioned TWH show, and if exhibitors are caught with chains and soring they are kicked out. You should contact the TWHA and ask them about this issue also.


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## Palomine

toto said:


> Im reckoning this is more about misinformation -- what does budweiser and soring have to do with each other? You mean budweiser is so horrible because they want to make money off shelbyvilles biggest event that brings in millions to Their city?
> 
> Every paded walker aint sored by the way- those bad people that do the soring end up behind bars and banned from the TWHBEA and showing at their events- to add.
> 
> Dont get me wrong- when i first seen a walker with them big pads on i thought it was silly looking and i do today- no need to say every padded walker is sored though- its false.
> 
> 
> i dont mean any disrespect but this thread is ignorant.. couldnt ignore it.
> 
> 
> And i had to add something else-- when the padded shows are in town its more than just the show ring-- the whole town of shelbyville cellebrates.. its not 'big lick day' its 'the walking horse celebration ceremony' Budweiser could be sponsoring other events or venues in the local area too.. ill be sure to be there and 'investigate' the budweiser..




Sadly, this thread is not ignorant, but you are very ignorant if you think that the Big Lick's are not all sored.

Every single one of them is. Always. 

Shows how little horse experience you have.


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## toto

Palomine said:


> Sadly, this thread is not ignorant, but you are very ignorant if you think that the Big Lick's are not all sored.
> 
> Every single one of them is. Always.
> 
> Shows how little horse experience you have.



thats a very narrow minded way of thinking about twhbea shows-- makes for my point i reckon. 


Stevenson is right-- thats a very old video and that trainer was jailed and banned from the twhbea and walking horse association wont have anything to do with them.

Palomine- im not the one thats 'ignorant' here- im up to date when it comes to the twhbea shows- easy for someone to ridicule behind a computer though- show a little respect for the twhbea will you? They do try hard to ban and jail every person thats involved with soring and if you dont believe me- Contact Us





Ask them yourself- but dont slander the twhbea over the horse forum when you are clueless to whats really going on-- theyre cracking down hard so open your eyes!


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## Allison Finch

Toto, you are mistaken if you think all the offenders are prosecuted or even "pointed out" at shows. There is a strong undercurrent with the "inspections and inspectors" at the shows and many violations are ignored. 

Last year McConnell, after all that was proven about him, received 3 years PROBATION and a fine. That's all. So much for real punishment.

Admitted Tennessee walking horse abuser avoids prison | timesfreepress.com

The Congress tried to beef up the horse protection act....but the twhbea board of directors voted it down. They don't want it stronger. It might be too hard to let these things slip through the cracks.

*LAST YEAR 76% *of the horses tested by the USDA tested positive for soring agents. You can bet 76% of those trainers were not prosecuted. Why is it that when the USDA comes behind the SHOW testers, self-policing of the industry became* 700 percent better*

http://www.tennessean.com/article/2...groups-find-more-violations-when-USDA-present

Foreign Substances Found in 76% Horses Tested by USDA at Walking Horse Event | TNReport

People who really believe these practices are gone, are deciding they like looking at these shows with blinders on. What they* refuse to see, must not exist.*


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## Zexious

That video is absolutely horrific. It made me sick.

I hope that whomever made the decision at Bud was ignorant to these practices (though, I do agree that not /all/ of them are sored...).
There are cruel people in every sport, and every discipline... Gah, /I'm upset now ;-;


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## toto

Allison Finch said:


> Toto, you are mistaken if you think all the offenders are prosecuted or even "pointed out" at shows. There is a strong undercurrent with the "inspections and inspectors" at the shows and many violations are ignored.
> 
> Last year McConnell, after all that was proven about him, received 3 years PROBATION and a fine. That's all. So much for real punishment.
> 
> Admitted Tennessee walking horse abuser avoids prison | timesfreepress.com
> 
> The Congress tried to beef up the horse protection act....but the twhbea board of directors voted it down. They don't want it stronger. It might be too hard to let these things slip through the cracks.
> 
> *LAST YEAR 76% *of the horses tested by the USDA tested positive for soring agents. You can bet 76% of those trainers were not prosecuted. Why is it that when the USDA comes behind the SHOW testers, self-policing of the industry became* 700 percent better*
> 
> http://www.tennessean.com/article/2...groups-find-more-violations-when-USDA-present
> 
> Foreign Substances Found in 76% Horses Tested by USDA at Walking Horse Event | TNReport
> 
> People who really believe these practices are gone, are deciding they like looking at these shows with blinders on. What they* refuse to see, must not exist.*


I didnt read where those horses were shown after being tested and results shown said they was sored? Youre right- the USDA is stepping in to stop the soring and sored horses from showing in the events its a good thing for it too.

would you say the sored horses aint being shown then- If so dont that mean theres no soring in the show ring? 

Im not saying people wont try it- its illegal to drive drunk and people do it Budweiser dont condone driving drunk but they do earn their money when people buy their beer- they might be drunk driving or they might be responsible drivers and have a designated driver-- Budweiser aint supporting soring either-- some people might be there and sore horses but not everyone at the shows are doing it.

The walkers with the big pads are going to show and the celebration events are all kinds- halter showing (not padded horses) flat shod (not big pads regular shoes) yearling glasses (not ridden or padded or shod) etcetra- there is classes for horses with no shoes too- its a celebration of the walking horse not the celebration of soring.

I agree with abuse can be seen at any show- its up to the people hosting the shows to decide that those horses aint allowed to participate in the show and thats what goes on at the celebration- followed by jailing. 


You know the trainer got jailed and convicted of horse abuse before getting a court date to decide he got probation- i dont see where the twhbea let him show again- far as i know hes banned from the association and showing horses in the twhbea shows-- i dont think he can even register a horse in the twhbea or have papers transferred in to his name.


I dont think soring is right at all- its abusive and horrible but i can say its *not* whats being shown in the twhbea shows today.


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## verona1016

I, for one, have sent Budweiser a note through their contact page expressing my disappointment that this is the equestrian event that they have decided to sponsor and associate themselves with. There are many other shows/disciplines they can sponsor that don't have the reputation of abusive practices that this show does. I, too, hope that this decision was made by some non-horsey higher-up who knows little to nothing about horses, and who would be aghast to learn what he has agreed to sponsor.


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## Northernstar

I live in a wilderness setting, and have never been in the show circuit - my horses are loved beyond measure and enjoyed as the magnificent creatures that they are. To purposely harm them is_ unfathomable_ - another harming them would be _in-excusable_ (and my fury would be such that they wished they never got out of bed that day). Regarding the soring topic - I do believe that* there is a special place in hell reserved for those people.*


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## Inga

verona1016 said:


> I, for one, have sent Budweiser a note through their contact page expressing my disappointment that this is the equestrian event that they have decided to sponsor and associate themselves with. There are many other shows/disciplines they can sponsor that don't have the reputation of abusive practices that this show does. I, too, hope that this decision was made by some non-horsey higher-up who knows little to nothing about horses, and who would be aghast to learn what he has agreed to sponsor.



I also sent them this message "It has come to my attention that Budweiser has decided to sponsor the "Big Lick" horse show this year. It breaks my heart to think that a company that has used horses to promote it's product will sponsor a show known for such horrid abuse against horses. Please reconsider your sponsorship of the most cruel horse show in the world. Please send a message that your company does NOT stand behind animal cruelty and take a stand against it. Please say "NO!" to soring horses."


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## Inga

I hope that everyone that loves horses will post their protest on Budweiser Facebook and also write to the company to let them know how we "the horse lovers' feel about them sponsoring the abuse.


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## toto

How can someone write a letter calling the tennessee walking horse celebration ceremony 'the big lick show' demanding Budweiser stop selling beer at the event and expect to get credibility or respect?


The celebration dont condone soring and budweiser dont either- sored horses aint shown in the ring- if they find out there had been soring the owners go to jail!


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## franknbeans

Allison Finch said:


> Toto, you are mistaken if you think all the offenders are prosecuted or even "pointed out" at shows. There is a strong undercurrent with the "inspections and inspectors" at the shows and many violations are ignored.
> 
> Last year McConnell, after all that was proven about him, received 3 years PROBATION and a fine. That's all. So much for real punishment.
> 
> Admitted Tennessee walking horse abuser avoids prison | timesfreepress.com
> 
> The Congress tried to beef up the horse protection act....but the twhbea board of directors voted it down. They don't want it stronger. It might be too hard to let these things slip through the cracks.
> 
> *LAST YEAR 76% *of the horses tested by the USDA tested positive for soring agents. You can bet 76% of those trainers were not prosecuted. Why is it that when the USDA comes behind the SHOW testers, self-policing of the industry became* 700 percent better*
> 
> http://www.tennessean.com/article/2...groups-find-more-violations-when-USDA-present
> 
> Foreign Substances Found in 76% Horses Tested by USDA at Walking Horse Event | TNReport
> 
> People who really believe these practices are gone, are deciding they like looking at these shows with blinders on. What they* refuse to see, must not exist.*


Toto-you responded to this, so I know you read it. These horses ARE in fact, shown. Get your head out of the sand, please.:?


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## toto

franknbeans said:


> Toto-you responded to this, so I know you read it. hese horses ARE in fact, shown. Get your head out of the sand, please.:?


Thats false- they check horses at every show.

i frequent these shows and see what goes on with my own eyes- you read hate filled rants on here and watch videos couple years old and try to tie them in to new events- theyre long past that video.

Do you know what precautions are taken to check for soring? They dont just do chem tests they take thermal images of the horses feet to show heat- if abnormalities are seen that horse is checked in to further 'investigated' for soring.


Or you can just start another petition on outdated information, lol.


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## NorthernMama

Yup, I sent them an email along with a link from the USDA from last year's event:
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2013/05/TWH_USDA_tests_050913.html


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## toto

> * The Horse Protection Act (HPA) is a Federal law that prohibits horses subjected to a practice called soring from participating in shows, sales, exhibitions, or auctions. The HPA also prohibits drivers from transporting sored horses to or from any of these events. APHIS works actively with the horse industry to protect against such abuse and ensure that only sound and healthy horses participate in shows. Our ultimate goal is to end this inhumane practice completely.
> 
> Soring is a cruel and abusive practice used to accentuate a horse’s gait. It may be accomplished by irritating or blistering a horse’s forelegs through the application of chemicals such as mustard oil or the use of mechanical devices.
> 
> Walking horses are known for possessing a naturally high gait , but in order to be successful in competition their natural gait is often exaggerated. The exaggerated gait can be achieved with proper training and considerable time however, some horse exhibitors, owners, and trainers have chosen to use improper and inhumane training methods to shorten the time it would take to produce a higher gait without abusive practices.*



Soring is very illegal and the horse protection act is working .


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## franknbeans

Oh-my mistake. Toto and the Federal Law says it isn't happening, so I must be mistaken. 

I was born, just not yesterday. Sorry, don't believe it for a minute.


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## BigNickMontana

I am just going to throw in one of my favorite quotes...
_
"Arrogant meddling, it is what got us in trouble in the first place..."_ - George Carlin


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## franknbeans

Are you saying we shouldn't "meddle" in this situation? Not sure what else that quite would mean in this context. Please clarify.


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## toto

franknbeans said:


> Oh-my mistake. Toto and the Federal Law says it isn't happening, so I must be mistaken.
> 
> I was born, just not yesterday. Sorry, don't believe it for a minute.



I didnt say soring aint happening- i said no sored horses have been in the show ring since 08 and thats a fact! They might show up with them but theyll be leaving in handcuffs! 

no need for sarcasm just prove me wrong if you can- ill pay for your celebration ticket and well go around inspecting ourselves drinking budweiser if you really want. :thumbsup: 

ill let you sock me if im wrong, lol.


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## franknbeans

Toto-how do you then explain the findings from 2008 to last year! That some 70% of the horses had been soured? Did you not read the article? Or are you saying it is a lie? In which case, I would expect there would be a law suit, which there has been none....

And no, I have no desire to go, thanks. You and I will not be drinking buds anytime soon for sure. Like in this life time.


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## BigNickMontana

franknbeans said:


> Are you saying we shouldn't "meddle" in this situation? Not sure what else that quite would mean in this context. Please clarify.


Quite the contrary, I am saying humans are stupid for doing things like using chemicals and "mechanical" devices to try to make a horse walk in an unnatural way because they think it looks cool. 

To me it is about as cool as someone who wears their pants down around their butt.


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## waresbear

I haven't to been to any Big Lick shows, I don't know anything about their testing methods or hung out any Walker training barns, I know squat about Big Lick except what I have read or seen on TV. BUT, I will say when I see those guys riding the Big Lick horses they remind me of child molesters, hovering over the horses, looking for little kids to prey upon.


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## Allison Finch

toto said:


> I didnt read where those horses were shown after being tested and results shown said they was sored? Youre right- the USDA is stepping in to stop the soring and sored horses from showing in the events its a good thing for it too.


The USDA steps in randomly, to test the "effectiveness" of the testing that is going on at the shows. The fact that they caught so many who had passed previous to their tests says it all.



> would you say the sored horses aint being shown then- If so dont that mean theres no soring in the show ring?


It means no such thing. It means that the few shows the USDA comes to catches the people who have slipped through at many other shows. I read that when word gets out that the USDA is at the show, there are a LOT of scratching going on. Why are these people not as scared of the SHOW testors? Because they, for whatever reason, manage to "not find the sored horses."



> Im not saying people wont try it- its illegal to drive drunk and people do it Budweiser dont condone driving drunk but they do earn their money when people buy their beer- they might be drunk driving or they might be responsible drivers and have a designated driver-- Budweiser aint supporting soring either-- some people might be there and sore horses but not everyone at the shows are doing it.


I am not saying that Budweiser supports soring. BUT, when they sponsor a show that has, historically, allowed these horses and has turned a blind eye to the practice, they will be "guilty by association" to many people. This is going to possibly affect their bottom line. I sent the corporate headquarters an e-mail saying that I would avoid buying their product in the future as a result of their sponsorship. I bet others are doing it, too. If they decide it is unwise to sponsor, they will decide to decline. If enough sponsors pull out, there will be a strong economic incentive for the Big Lick classes being either eliminated or more stringently monitored than they are now.



> The walkers with the big pads are going to show and the celebration events are all kinds- halter showing (not padded horses) flat shod (not big pads regular shoes) yearling glasses (not ridden or padded or shod) etcetra- there is classes for horses with no shoes too- its a celebration of the walking horse not the celebration of soring.


I doubt many people have an issue with any classes other than the Big Lick classes. 



> I agree with abuse can be seen at any show- its up to the people hosting the shows to decide that those horses aint allowed to participate in the show and thats what goes on at the celebration- followed by jailing.


But, that is not what has been happening. The judges and testors have been allowing sored horses to "pass" and compete. That has been proven by the fact that the USDA will come in, after horses have been checked and will find flagrant violations or, people will pull their horses before they are seen and run for the hills.




> You know the trainer got jailed and convicted of horse abuse before getting a court date to decide he got probation- i dont see where the twhbea let him show again- far as i know hes banned from the association and showing horses in the twhbea shows-- i dont think he can even register a horse in the twhbea or have papers transferred in to his name.


Bottom line is he didn't serve the time he should have. The judge gave him PROBATION. I am only hoping that the TWHBEA holds up his ban and keeps him from even training horses. Heck, he can abuse them at home and have his minion take them to the show, right?




> I dont think soring is right at all- its abusive and horrible but i can say its *not* whats being shown in the twhbea shows today.



Yes, they are still showing today. The people testing are doing a poor job, maybe due to pressure being put on them. The fact that the USDA can come in to a big show and find that 76% of the horses have been sored, tells it ALL!!


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## toto

franknbeans said:


> Toto-how do you then explain the findings from 2008 to last year! That some 70% of the horses had been soured? Did you not read the article? Or are you saying it is a lie? In which case, I would expect there would be a law suit, which there has been none....
> 
> And no, I have no desire to go, thanks. You and I will not be drinking buds anytime soon for sure. Like in this life time.


I did read the article- it dont say anything about them being shown- they talked about those horses being tested and being sored before they entered the ring- thats when they do the testing-- exactly what i had been saying and i stand by it. 

If you been to a twhbea show youd know they test the horses before they get to the ring to start showing. ;-) 

is it something i said? :lol:


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## toto

Allison Finch said:


> The USDA steps in randomly, to test the "effectiveness" of the testing that is going on at the shows. The fact that they caught so many who had passed previous to their tests says it all.


Why does the usda veterinarians step in randomly and not monitor the shows when there held to stop it completely? I dont blame the shows i blame the usda for enforcing the laws once in a while and not every time.





> It means no such thing. It means that the few shows the USDA comes to catches the people who have slipped through at many other shows. I read that when word gets out that the USDA is at the show, there are a LOT of scratching going on. Why are these people not as scared of the SHOW testors? Because they, for whatever reason, manage to "not find the sored horses."


i dont think there 'scared' just dumb, lol. 





> I am not saying that Budweiser supports soring. BUT, when they sponsor a show that has, historically, allowed these horses and has turned a blind eye to the practice, they will be "guilty by association" to many people. This is going to possibly affect their bottom line. I sent the corporate headquarters an e-mail saying that I would avoid buying their product in the future as a result of their sponsorship. I bet others are doing it, too. If they decide it is unwise to sponsor, they will decide to decline. If enough sponsors pull out, there will be a strong economic incentive for the Big Lick classes being either eliminated or more stringently monitored than they are now.


they aint turning a blind eye- i think it would give even more a reason for the usda to monitor the show and make sure there is no soring going on- maybe a part of the revenue they make will go to pay for the usda to do a good checking of the horses?

Thats fine but the celebration alone brings in so much revenue i dont think they would pull out their sponsorship because other businesses did- they have a better chance to make money now.







> I doubt many people have an issue with any classes other than the Big Lick classes.


Why? They can be soring the light shod horses or even the barefoot ones to make them be more animated just like they do with padded horses- when it comes to showing there is always the wrong way to do training and that is usually an abusive way.





> But, that is not what has been happening. The judges and testors have been allowing sored horses to "pass" and compete. That has been proven by the fact that the USDA will come in, after horses have been checked and will find flagrant violations or, people will pull their horses before they are seen and run for the hills.


The usda veterinarians come in with termo cameras when the testors think a horse could be sored- the problem is they dont have the technology that the usda does for testing soring- they do chem tests and the thermo images show more in to depths.






> Bottom line is he didn't serve the time he should have. The judge gave him PROBATION. I am only hoping that the TWHBEA holds up his ban and keeps him from even training horses. Heck, he can abuse them at home and have his minion take them to the show, right?


i do agree with you here- he should have darn well served his time! 

I went to court a while back (no life jacket- nothing too serious, lol) but there was a couple people ahead of me that had abused some horses- judge ordered they never have animals (not just horses) again and if they were caught with any animal in their possession they went to jail- i am thinking this man aint allowed to even be around horses not to mention training them again- if hes on probation officers will definitely be surprise visiting him to make sure he dont violate probation.







> Yes, they are still showing today. The people testing are doing a poor job, maybe due to pressure being put on them. The fact that the USDA can come in to a big show and find that 76% of the horses have been sored, tells it ALL!!




I think its more a money issue-- i can clean my carpet with my vacuum but if i called say 'stanley steamer' they could go back and get my carpets cleaner than i could because they got better tools than me. 

Im not justifying soring at all- its wrong and i hate people do that to such sweet animals but theres some sick people out there that want to win wgc title and do little work as they can to get there- this is the results.


----------



## franknbeans

Toto-I am done discussing it with you. It is clear to me that you are seeing what you want to. You and I will never agree on this for sure. Some folks from this area who support these shows have seen this for so many years that it becomes part of their culture in a way, so they really see nothing wrong with it. I will also say that if you really believe that any trainer who has been doing this with success and making $$ for clients by doing so for years will stop just because he has been banned-you are being fooled. I would bet he has others following his direction in the barn and at the shows. Until the culture changes and people stop going to these shows and contributing $$ to it by doing so, it will continue. 
I personally not only have no interest in watching such deformed looking gaits, but I also would not give one single penny toward going to such an event. EVER.


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## SmallTownGypsy

Good news, all! Budweiser will NOT be served at the Celebration. The Senior Director of Brand Communications spoke with the distributor to be sure that there would ZERO ties between their product and the show. There will no signage of any kind and no Budweiser to drink.


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## texasgal

Roy Exum: Budweiser Is Not A Sponsor - 08/08/2013 - Chattanoogan.com

It was never "Budweiser" to begin with. It was a local distributor that carries Bud as well as many other drinks.

The picture of him shaking hands with some TWH muckity muck was taken in front of a truck with Bud Light on it.

Everyone assumed.........


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## Inga

SmallTownGypsy said:


> Good news, all! Budweiser will NOT be served at the Celebration. The Senior Director of Brand Communications spoke with the distributor to be sure that there would ZERO ties between their product and the show. There will no signage of any kind and no Budweiser to drink.



Is that true? I hope so. I would hope all the sponsorship pulls from this show to send a clear message that the abuse needs to stop NOW! It makes me sad to think that the only thing that will force these people to stop is the stopping of the money coming in. I know it is ridiculous to think they would stop because the abuse is just wrong. Silly me to have such a dream but... one step at a time. Good for Budweiser for seeing the light.


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## franknbeans

It definitely is. I had written to them via FB, and here is the response I got:


*Budweiser:* "Thank you for writing, K. We can assure you that our Budweiser Clydesdales are treated like royalty and receive the utmost respect and care from our team. It seems we’ve been misidentified by some media as the corporate sponsor for the Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration.

In fact, we are not a corporate sponsor, and our Budweiser Clydesdales have no affiliation or appearances related to this event. Attached is a retraction of an original article.

Roy Exum: Budweiser Is Not A Sponsor - 08/08/2013 - Chattanoogan.com
Like · Reply · about an hour ago"


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## Inga

I wish they would cut off the supply to the distributor and that Coke would as well. Maybe if there were no refreshments at the shows that would send a message. ha ha 

If only we could get people to NOT attend. No butts in the seats also sends a message.


----------



## gunslinger

This is certainly an emotional issue for most all horse lovers.

Lets try to deal in facts.

1. There are horses, and not just TWH's who are sored.

2. TWHBEA has a history of allowing those who have been cited for soring to serve on the board, committees, judge events, as well as compete in the events they sponsor.

3. They've done little to ban those involved but they have banned a few associated with the practice.

4. Most of us would like them to do more.

5. There are people who show at the Celebration who don't abuse their horses, and there are certainly some who do.

6. Budweiser isn't sponsoring the Celebration, a local distributor is. 

7. The Celebration has a huge economic impact on Shelbyville. 

Any others?

I don't think its accurate to say everyone involved with the TWHBEA is promoting cruelty to animals but I don't think they can fix it without cleaning house.

I'm not sure if I will attend the celebration this year but am considering it. I went last year, first time sense the 1970's....grew up in Middle Tennessee and attended many Walking Horse shows as a child..... and have always admired Walking horses.....now I own one, and have never nailed a shoe on her never wanted to put her in a show ring. There was a very nice Champagne horse in the class that didn't show in stacks.....needless to say it didn't place nor win.

The wife and I went to a racking horse show last weekend in Chatsworth GA....that group promotes a different style of Walking Horse, but honestly, it seems the horse with the most front end action won most of the classes, and that's what lead us to this point.


----------



## toto

franknbeans said:


> Sorry about that-tried to edit it.
> 
> Toto-I am done discussing it with you. It is clear to me that you are seeing what you want to. You and I will never agree on this for sure. Some folks from this area who support these shows have seen this for so many years that it becomes part of their culture in a way, so they really see nothing wrong with it. I will also say that if you really believe that any trainer who has been doing this with success and making $$ for clients by doing so for years will stop just because he has been banned-you are being fooled. I would bet he has others following his direction in the barn and at the shows. Until the culture changes and people stop going to these shows and contributing $$ to it by doing so, it will continue.
> I personally not only have no interest in watching such deformed looking gaits, but I also would not give one single penny toward going to such an event. EVER.


Youre done discussing it with me because you do not have any factual information to back up your story.

budweiser wasnt even sponsoring the celebration- a local distributor was selling bud light, lol. 

im reckoning Yall confused the budweiser people- they thought yall were saying their horses were sored pulling the budweiser wagon- or something of the sort from your letters reply-- i was a little confused too. :-x

This thread is looney! Sorry but it is- I can give you fact all day but am glad you're going to throw up the white flag here because im not going to let you bash the walking horse or the walking horse industry when you know nothing about any of them. :-x


----------



## stevenson

A Finch.. Toto said that they TRY HARD.. so as a forum moderator you should carefully read each post before you tell some one that they are wrong.


----------



## franknbeans

toto said:


> Youre done discussing it with me because you do not have any factual information to back up your story.
> 
> budweiser wasnt even sponsoring the celebration- a local distributor was selling bud light, lol.
> 
> im reckoning Yall confused the budweiser people- they thought yall were saying their horses were sored pulling the budweiser wagon- or something of the sort from your letters reply-- i was a little confused too. :-x
> 
> This thread is looney! Sorry but it is- i can give you fact all day but am glad youre gonna throw up the white flag here because im not going to let you bash the walking horse or the walking horse industry when you know nothing about any of them. :-x


Actually, I know better than to even THINK Anheiser Busch would treat the Clydes with anything but top shelf treatment. I am not at all confused. Not nearly as mush as some who seem to have delusions. 

I am only done here because I enjoy the forum in general and may say something that may get me banned if I state my thoughts on some members. Enough said, other than no white flag, I just know when I am beating my head against a wall with someone who will never open their eyes.


----------



## Allison Finch

stevenson said:


> A Finch.. Toto said that they TRY HARD.. so as a forum moderator you should carefully read each post before you tell some one that they are wrong.


Toto also said;



> I said no sored horses have been in the show ring since 08 and that's a fact!


That is proven incorrect!


Also;



> it don't say anything about them being shown- they talked about those horses being tested and being sored before they entered the ring- that's when they do the testing


As I pointed out that the USDA goes in sometimes AFTER the original testing is done. The horses they catch WERE going to be in the ring. The USDA does not have the funding to go to every show, so one can assume that when they are not there to catch the sored horses "missed" by the SHOW testers, they will be in the show ring. No rocket science there.

As for their "trying hard"....Only some of the people are trying. Some others, a few of whom are at the very top of the game, are definitely NOT trying at all. The fact that this show is allowing the banned and, supposedly reviled, McConnel to sponsor a trophy being given at this show shows how little they care about cleaning up the industry, IMO.

There were more comments that really got under my skin that I won't even bother with. 

Just because I am a mod (a* VOLUNTEER* who spends a lot of my time working here) doesn't mean I cannot also voice an opinion.







Ill let you sock me if im wrong, lol.


----------



## Saddlebag

While everyone is looking at the Big Lick, whether soring is involved or not, no one is looking at the pain caused by hyperextending the hind quarters. These horses wind up with torn muscles from the stifle thro the hocks.


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## Cat

toto said:


> This thread is looney! Sorry but it is- i can give you fact all day but am glad youre gonna throw up the white flag here because im not going to let you bash the walking horse or the walking horse industry when you know nothing about any of them. :-x


Toto - I haven't seen any actual facts presented by you yet. At least not accurate facts. You act like you are the only one on this forum that lives in Walker country and knows what goes on in those shows. You are completely incorrect on that matter. Some of us see this first hand - not just via old videos.

Soring is not old news. They still make it to the show ring. There is lack of funding that prevents the USDA from being at every show so they make random surprise visits. It stops some, but not all.

The inspectors/testers at the show SHOULD catch soring before hand as that was the plan, but be honest now. If you live in Walking horse country you know what its like around here. Its nothing but a big Good Ole' Boys club and the ones that are members of it have a blind eye turned on what they do. 

You've shown nothing but how niave you are in this thread. I think the reason people are throwing up the "white flags" so to speak is that its hard to get anywhere when arguing with a brick wall.


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## franknbeans

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Well said Cat. Thank you


----------



## toto

Cat said:


> Toto - I haven't seen any actual facts presented by you yet. At least not accurate facts. You act like you are the only one on this forum that lives in Walker country and knows what goes on in those shows. You are completely incorrect on that matter. Some of us see this first hand - not just via old videos.





> Soring is not old news. They still make it to the show ring. There is lack of funding that prevents the USDA from being at every show so they make random surprise visits. It stops some, but not all.


when i typed this its wrong- when you do its fact? 




> The inspectors/testers at the show SHOULD catch soring before hand as that was the plan, but be honest now. If you live in Walking horse country you know what its like around here. Its nothing but a big Good Ole' Boys club and the ones that are members of it have a blind eye turned on what they do.
> 
> You've shown nothing but how niave you are in this thread. I think the reason people are throwing up the "white flags" so to speak is that its hard to get anywhere when arguing with a brick wall.


No they dont 'have a blind eye turned' thats what the media wants people to think- its definitely a money problem than it is a 'i dont care' deal- you cant tell me walking horse people aint disgusted by the soring and believe you aint lying to yourself-- im disgusted and so is every one else that hears about soring! Its cruel thing to do! 

Niave? Because i know first hand and yall are bashing something yall dont know about? 

when someone has to resort to insult or talk off topic- theyve lost with no more false information to go by- i can tell truths about twhbea shows all day and you can go on hear say- or what someone told you about the 'good ol boys' last i checked a 'good ol boy' is honest and goes by the books- not some ol ******* cheat! ;-)


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## Roperchick

So much anger!

This thread was about a petition for Budweiser to not sponsor at the show.


Job complete.

So why the continued bashing??? Goodnessssss


----------



## toto

Allison Finch said:


> Toto also said;
> 
> 
> 
> That is proven incorrect!


They dont wait to test the horses after theyve shown with the thermal image cameras- that would mess up the thermo imaging- a further investigation would be doing x-raying and then the horse still wouldnt be in the show ring but would happen at the trainers barn or in the veterinarian office.




> Also;
> 
> 
> As I pointed out that the USDA goes in sometimes AFTER the original testing is done. The horses they catch WERE going to be in the ring. The USDA does not have the funding to go to every show, so one can assume that when they are not there to catch the sored horses "missed" by the SHOW testers, they will be in the show ring. No rocket science there.


i saw you wrote how they used caustic chemicals to sore-- my friend cleans the hoods over the stoves in restaurants- he uses caustic-- he has scars from where the chamical has burned right through to the bone- i am wondering why you think some of the testers would let that slip? Big sores on horses ankles that would be called in to the aspca or another abuse hotline by the fans in the crowds- not only does the twhbea not like that thing at their shows the fans dont want to see sore wounded horses being ridden!



> As for their "trying hard"....Only some of the people are trying. Some others, a few of whom are at the very top of the game, are definitely NOT trying at all. The fact that this show is allowing the banned and, supposedly reviled, McConnel to sponsor a trophy being given at this show shows how little they care about cleaning up the industry, IMO.


The people at the top of the game are the ones paying for the testers etcetera -i sure want them to do a good job if im paying them to keep all kinds of fines maybe being sued off my shoulders!



> There were more comments that really got under my skin that I won't even bother with.
> 
> Just because I am a mod (a* VOLUNTEER* who spends a lot of my time working here) doesn't mean I cannot also voice an opinion.



I accept you opinions and respect them- i also have opinions and expect the same respect when i voice mine that i give you- i think you do have respect for my opinions and i thank you for that but theres a few comments made that are just out of line here or that have no place here and i will not respect those ones- not made by you but a few others.









> Ill let you sock me if im wrong, lol.


^ the quote you didnt like?


----------



## tinyliny

This subject is a very interesting and pertinent subject to the modern horse world. The discussion is great, but please, pretty please, keep it civil.


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## AlexS

franknbeans said:


> It definitely is. I had written to them via FB, and here is the response I got:
> 
> 
> *Budweiser:* "Thank you for writing, K. We can assure you that our Budweiser Clydesdales are treated like royalty and receive the utmost respect and care from our team. It seems we’ve been misidentified by some media as the corporate sponsor for the Tennessee Walking Horse Celebration.
> 
> In fact, we are not a corporate sponsor, and our Budweiser Clydesdales have no affiliation or appearances related to this event. Attached is a retraction of an original article.
> 
> Roy Exum: Budweiser Is Not A Sponsor - 08/08/2013 - Chattanoogan.com
> Like · Reply · about an hour ago"


 

this is wonderful news, and sadly came after I made a comment on their FB page. I am leaving my comment, as maybe with all their money they can do a commercial stating that they are not involved, they are firing the distributor who is supporting the event, and just educate people all over.


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## SueNH

It's my understanding that the distributor will still be selling some Anheuser-Busch products as well as Monster energy drinks and some obscure regional beer I've never heard of.

So there is still an official Bud distributor selling at the celebration even if Bud itself says it has no control. They need to step up to bat and make them officially not a distributor of Bud products. All they have done is say they can't sell Bud at this show.


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## stevenson

Personally, to criticize a company that sells, food, beverages etc at any show is just beyond
reasonable. If that's the thinking, then they do not need to sell, at cuttings, ropings, jumping,saddle seat,driving, pulling, western pleasure, hack, hunter etc. there are unethical practices in ALL shows .


----------



## Roadyy

stevenson said:


> Personally, to criticize a company that sells, food, beverages etc at any show is just beyond
> reasonable. If that's the thinking, then they do not need to sell, at cuttings, ropings, jumping,saddle seat,driving, pulling, western pleasure, hack, hunter etc. there are unethical practices in ALL shows .


Can you post some evidence of the cruelty in these other disciplines instead of just pointing fingers to spread the attention around? I'm new to the accusations and haven't heard of any cruelty in them like posted here..Thanks.


----------



## tinyliny

SueNH said:


> It's my understanding that the distributor will still be selling some Anheuser-Busch products as well as Monster energy drinks and some obscure regional beer I've never heard of.
> 
> So there is still an official Bud distributor selling at the celebration even if Bud itself says it has no control. They need to step up to bat and make them officially not a distributor of Bud products. All they have done is say they can't sell Bud at this show.


I am not sure it is legally possible for Budweiser/Anhauser-Bush to dictate where a distributor sells their product. It might be possible if it were written into a sales contract at the time of purchase, but after the fact, not sure. Can you imagine if Coke tried to control every place it's product was sold? think of picnics , little league, small time fundraisers, local horse shows and rodeos, on and on and on. We buy the product at Costco, and sell the individual cans for $1 each . Coke does not have a say in where we resell their product. Not realistically.

Budweiser NOT officially sponsoring the event is enough. pursueing the distributors is overkill.

It is too bad that by not sponsoring the event, to make a statement on the inhumaneness of soring, that those who do not use these barbaric practices and the town itself also suffer the loss of those funds. The good get smacked with the bad. However, sometimes it takes suffering to make it worth their while to make the change REAL, not just toeing the line when the Gov is around, then doing the same old same old when they are not.


----------



## toto

Roadyy said:


> Can you post some evidence of the cruelty in these other disciplines instead of just pointing fingers to spread the attention around? I'm new to the accusations and haven't heard of any cruelty in them like posted here..Thanks.


You know the rules for an aqha reining show before they start the pattern. The judge makes the rider drop the horses bridle when ever they feel like it to make sure theres not a sharp object.

in a reining show youre disqualified for any hint of blood on your horses mouth or where youre spurs touch-- im reckoning people been doing these things to their horses to win a show and prize money--what you reckon? 


http://equinelegalsolutions.blogspot.com/2012/06/show-horse-abuse.html?m=1

If you go looking for evil in the show horse world youll find it no matter the breed or show!


----------



## toto

> ne disturbing form of abuse performed on the vast majority of horses showing in reining and stock horse breed shows such as AQHA and APHA is known as "doing" horses' tails. This barbaric procedure involves injecting the horses' tail heads with substances to deaden the nerves. Some unethical veterinarians will perform this procedure,but these injections, administered alarmingly close to the horse's spine,are much more commonly administered by people with absolutely no veterinary medical training using questionable substances such as grain alcohol purchased at a liquor store. The purpose of this procedure is to prevent the horse from using its tail reactively and to make the horse "pack" its tail, presenting an allegedly more pleasing picture in the show ring. While defenders swear "doing tails" is "harmless" when "done properly" because it "wears off," a quick scan of the warm-up pen at any major stock horse breed show evidences otherwise - scarred and crooked tails abound,and because horses can't avoid defecating and urinating on themselves, grooms rush to wipe unsightly feces and urine off of horses' back legs and tails before the horses go into the show pen. "Doing tails" became popular after Western Pleasure and reining horses wrung their tails in response to excessive spurring and were penalized in the show pen. Rather than fixing the problem,the trainers simply fixed the tails. Now, horses ears are being injected to prevent the horses from pinning their ears back...


Sounds cruel enough to me..



> Drugs are Easier Than Training
> 
> What's easier,training a horse thoroughly so it will go around the show ring quietly without spooking,or giving it drugs? How about teaching a client how to manage every stride on a hunter course,or giving the horse drugs to make sure every stride is the same? Horse training and riding instruction are hard work,and take lots of time. At the same time,many clients are impatient - they don't want to wait while their trainer works through a problem,they just want it "fixed" so they can go show.


----------



## Foxhunter

The answer to the scoring problem is very simple. If it is lack of funding that prevents every horse that could be subject to storing being tested then they charge more on the entry fees for the classes to cover the costs. 

Budweiser is an international company and I am sure would not condone any cruelty bit, as said, those in the advertising department that make the arrangements for sponsorship, probably do not know a horse from a cow. 

In the UK it was traditional to shoe heavy horses to make their feet look bigger. To do this they allowed the foot to grow long and shoe to that length so the foot was spread out. Not good for the feet at all. It stopped when the Shire Society told judges that these horses were not to be placed and for the farriers to not be placed for the best shod section.

It stopped in less than two seasons.


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## SueNH

Foxhunter, in the case of these judges many of them have past soring violations. They have quite a network going.


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## Foxhunter

If the society allows people who have convictions for storing to be judges or to have anyone on the committee that has, then they are lunatics.

One thing I dislike about the US is the fact that people talk a lot about it and do nothing.

It is easy to stop things like this if some people are willing to stick their necks out and make new rules. Catch a few of the main trainers who show, ban them for life for showing, heavily fine both them and the owners and see how many want to follow suit.
No good saying " he is one of the best walker show barns in the country,' and letting him get away with it. If he had his livelyhood taken away then that would be that. 
It might be that they still run a barn and are there as an advisory person but if the ban extended to them not being allowed to attend a show, and horses from that barn were caught having been sored then the same thing happens, ban whoever is officially in charge, make the fines higher second time for all concerned. They would have to be pretty thick to keep trying it.


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## SueNH

I'm actually pretty hopeful that this year is going to be different.


----------



## MsLady

Is this not put to rest yet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Golden Horse

MsLady said:


> Is this not put to rest yet?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not as long as people keep replying:wink:


----------



## SueNH

Shouldn't rest until the big lick is done.


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## franknbeans

I really think this particular one is no longer pertinent, since we know that Budweiser IS NOT sponsoring the event. That was the subject of this thread. JMHO.


----------



## toto

Foxhunter said:


> If the society allows people who have convictions for storing to be judges or to have anyone on the committee that has, then they are lunatics.
> 
> One thing I dislike about the US is the fact that *people talk a lot about it and do nothing.*
> 
> It is easy to stop things like this if some people are willing to stick their necks out and make new rules. Catch a few of the main trainers who show, ban them for life for showing, heavily fine both them and the owners and see how many want to follow suit.
> No good saying " he is one of the best walker show barns in the country,' and lettitaking him get away with it. If he had his livelyhood taken away then that would be that.
> It might be that they still run a barn and are there as an advisory person but if the ban extended to them not being allowed to attend a show, and horses from that barn were caught having been sored then the same thing happens, ban whoever is officially in charge, make the fines higher second time for all concerned. They would have to be pretty thick to keep trying it.



I love everything about this so i didnt edit your quote- just bold the part that is dead on! :thumbsup:

People can have 1000 petitions but paper can be stuffed in a file in a locked drawer not seen for ever- live bodys taking proper action to stop things like soring is whats needed done! Agreed 1000 %


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## stevenson

toto .. the tail injections are cruel. but in the older days , they 2 x 4 ' them. gross. 
stick a piece of 2 x4 under the tail at the top by the butt, take another one , give a good whack.. no more tail wringing.. fx tail.


----------



## Saddlebag

Rather than petitions, appeal to people to write a once sentence note to the state governor. "I oppose the soring of horses". That is all that's needed. We opposed a government proposal by holding a mass mailing. Even warned the post office. We had three days to mail it and we won. It can be done. If enough letters are mailed, the governor will start to become a little concerned it all the writers will vote for someone else if action isn't taken.


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## hisangelonly

I don't understand the need to "animate" a gait? A horse is supposed to be judged by its natural ability. If you have to use weights and pads and chemicals then it is not natural. There is abuse in every breed show. Like the chemicals under arabs' tails. and weren't they cutting nerves in AQHA and tying western pleasure horses heads up for long periods of time? If the judging was better then trainers would not try to get to this. If those unnatural horses were the last in the class every single time and a natural horse got first and the money, then trainers would strive towards the natural. They just want to win and care only for money! those horses are pacing though. they do not look like they are performing a four beat gait? Those people in the video sicken me. I wish I could beat those people with a whip when they can hardly stand. so sad. they are such kind sweet animals. I don't understand why people do this. Of all the living things, humans are the cruelest.


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## hisangelonly

toto said:


> I love everything about this so i didnt edit your quote- just bold the part that is dead on! :thumbsup:
> 
> People can have 1000 petitions but paper can be stuffed in a file in a locked drawer not seen for ever- live bodys taking proper action to stop things like soring is whats needed done! Agreed 1000 %


we need an angry mob. one with whips and chains. and beat these horrific people who abuse animals senseless. maybe authorities will "look the other way" as they do with the abuse of these animals. there needs to be an examination done on every horse by a neutral veterinarian and law enforcement behind them. Just like they test race horses and other show horses for certain drugs.


----------



## Allison Finch

Foxhunter said:


> *One thing I dislike about the US is the fact that people talk a lot about it and do nothing.
> *



?????

I am sure people in YOUR country do the same. That statement is just Wow! For your information there has been a lot of work done to stop this practice. It is bumping into an ingrained "good ole boy" network, though.





> It is easy to stop things like this if some people are willing to stick their necks out and make new rules. Catch a few of the main trainers who show, ban them for life for showing, heavily fine both them and the owners and see how many want to follow suit.


You need to study a bit on this. There HAVE been rules put in place because of the efforts made. However, the good ole boys are often ignoring them.



> No good saying " he is one of the best walker show barns in the country,' and letting him get away with it. If he had his livelyhood taken away then that would be that.
> It might be that they still run a barn and are there as an advisory person but if the ban extended to them not being allowed to attend a show, and horses from that barn were caught having been sored then the same thing happens, ban whoever is officially in charge, make the fines higher second time for all concerned. They would have to be pretty thick to keep trying it.


Sigh

Again, read up on the efforts being made. I will say no more......


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## Foxhunter

hisangelonly said:


> we need an angry mob. one with whips and chains. and beat these horrific people who abuse animals senseless. maybe authorities will "look the other way" as they do with the abuse of these animals. there needs to be an examination done on every horse by a neutral veterinarian and law enforcement behind them. Just like they test race horses and other show horses for certain drugs.


Violence is not the way to go. You are as bad as them if you resort to such tactics.

What is needed is proof of spring, films taken in the barns of the purpertraitors so there is soIid evidence and that be presented to the governing body of both the breed society and the show organisers.

You let them know that if no solid action is taken in banning those concerned then it will hit all the major papers and Internet along with the names of those who are too cowardly tp place a ban


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## tinyliny

I think it takes the general populace saying , "we don't like the look of that bizarre, unreal gait. It's ugly and false and demonstrates real vanity and selfishness if , for show, a human puts animal in such pain, and for what? So that you see a gait that is so utterly unnatural? It's a bit like the old corsets that women wore , with bussles on their butts to give a very unnatural hourglass shape. It caused a lot of health issues for the women, all for show. The horses have no choice. But as long as this is valued by the audience and paid for by the horse buyer/shower, it will persist.


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## Foxhunter

Allison Finch said:


> ?????
> 
> I am sure people in YOUR country do the same. That statement is just Wow! For your information there has been a lot of work done to stop this practice. It is bumping into an ingrained "good ole boy" network, though.
> 
> You need to study a bit on this. There HAVE been rules put in place because of the efforts made. However, the good ole boys are often ignoring them.
> 
> Sigh
> 
> Again, read up on the efforts being made. I will say no more......


There might well have been something's done and new rules put in position but unless they are enforced it is all just hot air.

Old Boy networks are not so hard to break. Committees are elected members and come up for re- election. If it is known that Mr Brown is all for the Old Boy network then he doesn't get the votes to be re- elected.

Dead easy except for getting the members who are playing it straight to either stand for election or even bother to vote. 

I gave an example of the Shires and the way they were shod. That was stopped very quickly. Another, non horse example was with Boxer dogs and the way they were being bred with their nostrils nearly as far back on their faces as their eyes. 
The Boxer Breed Soc. brought out rules about this, it took a while because of genetics and breeding it out, but the Boxer as a breed in the UK is a lot sounder already.

It can be done but takes effort and motivation. It is the same here in that people will always expect someone else to do something about it and then carry on when nothing happens.


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## BornToRun

This 'discussion' kind of reminds me of all those slaughter threads ...
Budweiser has made it clear that they are not and never were sponsoring, which is what, I might add, this thread was really about. Now can we stop going at each other's throats?


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## franknbeans

Foxhunter said:


> There might well have been something's done and new rules put in position but unless they are enforced it is all just hot air.
> 
> *Old Boy networks are not so hard to break. *Committees are elected members and come up for re- election. If it is known that Mr Brown is all for the Old Boy network then he doesn't get the votes to be re- elected.
> 
> Dead easy except for getting the members who are playing it straight to either stand for election or even bother to vote.
> 
> I gave an example of the Shires and the way they were shod. That was stopped very quickly. Another, non horse example was with Boxer dogs and the way they were being bred with their nostrils nearly as far back on their faces as their eyes.
> The Boxer Breed Soc. brought out rules about this, it took a while because of genetics and breeding it out, but the Boxer as a breed in the UK is a lot sounder already.
> 
> It can be done but takes effort and motivation. It is the same here in that people will always expect someone else to do something about it and then carry on when nothing happens.


I think you better take a closer look at your own country. I know personally of a female physician in the UK who has fought the "good old boy" network for years. The old male physicians in the UK are pretty set in their ways. She has "only" been there practicing for 30+ years, and has numerous awards, was MD to your Olympians, yet she still fights it almost daily. It becomes entrenched in the culture. It is getting better, since many are retiring or dying.


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## Allison Finch

I will not bash another country with blanket statements. It is not my style. But there is NO country immune from finding it hard to change old habits. Especially when those old habits bring in lots of money. ALL countries can find examples of their own.


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## SueNH

The big shoes are called Scotch bottoms here and they are still used. I'd never do it but they are still out there.


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## toto

Im reckoning foxhunters point was that people can say all the words they want- if no action is taken to followup the words spoken nothing will be done about it ever.

There is a horse protection act but if people are ignoring the laws they will be broke. 

Saying 'the good ol boys' are the ones doing it is wrong though- there is many people from all over that are soring not just local people- these are just the ones yall hear about.. when it comes to showing and money there is always going to be greed and people wanting to take easy street to make up for lack of training- not just in the walking horse industry.

If something needs to be done dont sit around saying 'something needs done' *get out and do it* its not about someones gender race or country- its about the way they go about doing things.


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## SueNH

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-protection/lets-get-wheelon-twh-soring-case-259097/


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