# Too big for your horse — short-term damage or ok for a little while?



## SammysMom

Reading the thread about that 10% study has me all nervous. I will NEVER be 100-120 pounds (and don't have/don't want a draft horse), and it's going to be tough for me to get to even 15% any time soon. I've always just trusted my trainers and experienced barn-mates to help me decide what horses I can ride. 

I'm 5'5" and 260lbs with good balance. Recently, I've been riding a 15.1/1200 Appy (average build, a little chunky), which my trainer assigned to me when I started taking lessons with her. Then I leased a gypsy cross who's 15.1/1400.

I just bought a paint who's 15.2/1150. He's 10, very healthy, lots of energy and fairly stout (people joke he looks like a draft x) — nothing dainty about him. That puts me at 22.6% right now, and I've been losing weight. The weight I hope to arrive at soon would put me at about 15-16%. 

So my question...do you think being heavier than recommended for a year or so would do any damage to a healthy horse? I wouldn't ride him at 25 at my current weight, but it seems like it should be ok for now as long as he doesn't seem uncomfortable. What do you think?

This is my boy:


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## Joe4d

ok first thing you need to do is flush all the percent business out of your brain. let me ask you this, you say you are 260 lbs, you think you can wear body armor, ammo, helmet, and an 80 pound ruck like a 160 lb male infantry soldier can all day ?
Bone, fitness,, back and general confirmation determine what a horse can comfortably carry, NOT WEIGHT. That 20 % nonsense was created by an idiot bureaucrat army officer, who couldnt lead a cavalry unit out of a wet paper bag, he later became a full General and his manual has been getting quoted like its the word of God ever sense. IT is complete 100% malarky


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## gunslinger

Yep, another arbitrary number. We just have to have a number for everything don't we? Under, good.....over...bad....

Joed pegged it...


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## Vidaloco

Thanks for these answers. I too am a plus size rider. I've always just gotten off to give her a break every hour or so. I've always been very disheartened by those "numbers" too, thinking I was hurting my beloved Vida. I have just dropped 30 lbs so maybe I can add more tack. Hey, does that mean shopping?! :wink::lol:


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## swimminchikin

Excuse me while I drool for a moment... I love that paint! 

Honestly, I don't pay attention to percentages all. Just watch the horse. He'll tell you if it's too much. Make sure you have a good fitting saddle that leaves even sweat marks. Watch while you're riding for heavy breathing or excessive back stretching and watch for soreness after. 

As long as he is comfortable I'd go for it! Enjoy your new guy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Your horse is adorable. Forget all that percentage crap. When I was a kid growing up, nobody ever heard of percentages, horses were horses and put here to work for us. That said, I don't mean load 'em up like a Uhaul truck to haul furniture but he's not getting hurt by a well balanced rider. I'd take a 260 lb rider who is well balanced, with good seat and hands over a 100 lb sack of ........anyhow rider, any day in the week.


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## tinyliny

Such a limit is understood as a general guideline and should have some flexibility according to your skill level, 260 lbs, plus the 30 or so pounds of the tack, is a fair amount of weight for a horse to carry. one cannot deny that. If this new horse is not used to carrying that weight, then it's important to condition him slowly, and do a lot of walking before you move up a gait. 
Also, it's even more critical that the saddle be an excellent fit when the horse is carrying more weight.

I haven't heard any 10% rule, only the "20%" rule.


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## Saddlebag

Military horses were ridden all day. That is why the weight restrictions. Joe if you look at old war pics those guys were all slim. Today's horses are ridden part time and by much heavier riders. Most vets will tell you it's hard on the horse's joints. Most overweight people are needing knee surgery by 45yrs of age so what does that tell you? It's doing the same to the horse.


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## SammysMom

Thanks, *swimminchikin* and *Dreamcatcher*, I'll pass the compliments on to Sam 

And thanks to all for the info and opinions. I think I will just pay close attention to his health and try my absolute best to drop the weight!


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## stevenson

sammysmom.. lots of good advice, it is hard to lose weight, and good luck ! and its great that you have already dropped some lbs.


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## Joe4d

weight percents have ZERO basis in scientific fact, simple as that. anyone with the ability to grasp basic logic should be able to see that. So lets see my in shape super conditioned 50 mile horse at 900 lbs can carry less weight than he can now soft and lazy at a 1000 lbs ? Really ? So an 1500lb draft horse with arthritis and a bad back can carry more than an 800 lb arab ? wow good to know. 
FACT over a 10 year study at tevis, (100 mile very hard endurance event) study found ZERO correlation between horse weight and rider weight in completion %, winning %, or pull %, up to and including riders at 32%.Confirmation and preride condition did.
FACT in an era when the average horse was barely 14 hands and probably 800 on a good day. a "Horse weight" was a unit of measure equal to 200 lbs. used by people who's livlyhood depended on sound horses. 
In that era the actual combat horses again 14 hands, were carrying armor and armored soldiers into combat. The giant chargers are a myth. and only used in parades. Actual war horses based on actual stored horse armor again, 14 handish.
Percents, Not a rule of thumb, Not a guideline, Not anything. Simply regurgitated nonsense. Has as much basis in the real world as saying a brown horse can carry more than a white. 

Now Im not saying that horse can or cant carry you or anyone else, what I am saying is that his weight has nothing to do with it.


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## smrobs

In this instance, I agree completely with Joe. While it is possible to overload a horse and, with the type of riding I do that includes roping and dragging heavy cattle, I'd be resistant to going over 30% just for my own peace of mind.

However, just for average riding, an average sized horse with stout conformation that is in good condition is much better suited to a heavy rider than a larger horse that is out of shape or has weak conformation.

From what I can see, your guy is built very well. Compact and sturdy with good legs under him. I see no reason at all why you couldn't enjoy him and ride as long as you choose at your current weight.

Heck, if a person had to follow a 10% guideline, I wouldn't be able to ride half the horses I do LOL. At 10%, I'd have to have a horse that weighed 1750 to adequately carry me and my tack:shock:.

The only advice I'll give is just to watch him and if he starts to act like he's struggling a little, then stop and give him a rest.


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## toosexy4myspotz

Im going to compare two mares that we have. One is a 15.3hh approx 1200lb ssh. Fairly stout girl. At 5 yo and in what I consider very good condition. When I was at my heaviest 225lbs plus my 45 lb saddle she acted like she struggled going up and down steep hills with me. Kind of irritated me because one of the reasons I wanted her was because she was gaited and going to be stouter. Then the second mare is 14.1hh approx 900 lb very refinded twh. At my heaviest I maybe rode her twice because I felt sooo bad for her having to carry me. However, she moved with ease no matter where we went and she was not in good shape. she is also very toed out in the front.

Its really hard to say whether someone is too much for a horse or not without seeing them ride and being able to feel how the horse is moving.


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## xdressage

I don't think weight is the main factor - saddle fit is. In most english saddles, you should be able to fit a palm behind your butt on the saddle. This doesn't go for western saddles, because the seat in these are different, but generally for all saddles, if you'r bum goes over the cantle, if you can just barely squeeze your butt into the saddle, or if your butt only fits into a saddle that is too long for your horses back - then you're too big, no discussions. If you're bodyweight gets too far back in the saddle, you're putting the wrong pressure on the horses back.
Sounds simple, yet many ignore it(or just never heard/thought about it).
Rider weight and the condition, age and build of the horse, still matters of course. But i think saddle fit for the rider, is the best guideline 

So if it fits, you sits!  I think it's great that you care and think about it though, i think we all should.


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## bsms

Here are some threads that might help you think about the way ahead:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-hea...effecting-horses-soundness-96747/#post1164700

Heavier Riders' Guide

I'm about 175. With my tack, probably around 210+. Mia is around 900, so I've spent the last 5+ years riding her at about 23-24% of her weight.

She is doing fine. As best I can tell by watching her, she enjoys our rides. Corrals are boring. Stretching her legs is fun. If that means carrying me along...well, so be it.

Trooper weighs 830. That puts me over 25%. If he minds, he hides it well. Cowboy might be 700 lbs (13 hands). 30%. He dislikes ANYONE riding him in an arena, but acts happy and relaxed on trails. If I'm on him on the trail, though, I can feel him struggling with my weight at times. Of course, he gets ridden about 6 times a year and eats too much, so he is our fat little out of shape pony. But yeah, by 30% or more, one might want to think carefully. Limit the rides, or do not ride every day in a row, use a saddle that distributes the weight over a larger area, watch your speed, allow more room in a turn, etc. 

I read the 10% article. It was done by idiots.


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## Saddlebag

I must have read the wrong info on battle horses. The heavily armored knight did ride the big war horse but only in battle. Other than that he wore little armor and rode a palfry which was quite a comfortable ride. The apprentice lead the war horse.


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## SammysMom

Thanks to all of you. I've always acknowledged that you can't make any decisions based solely on numbers, and not because I was trying to validate (I was leasing a 15hh, 1300-pound draft cross in excellent health with solid everything) but because of the reasons you all outlined (that health and conformation are what matter if you're talking within reason). Your examples and explanations solidified that for me, *Joe* and *toosexy*, et al. 

*xdressage*, thanks for the saddle info. I'm riding for now in an all-purpose English saddle that seems to fit well based on my seat and his sweat marks, but I'm buying a Western saddle soon that will improve the weight distribution.


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## Tracer

The Japanese have recently done a study that is far better than any others I have seen, that takes into account the conformation of the horse and the type of rider. It still needs more work and, when that comes out with a final result, it'll probably be one I listen to.

I currently lease a 20+ year old 15.3HH QH who leaves a little to be desired conformation wise as he has a long back and is a little cow-hocked. 10% of his weight would mean that even my far skinnier beginner friend couldn't ride him! I'm a little over 20% of his weight, without tack. He carries me the same as he does a lighter person. He's never been sore in the back since I bought him a riser pad to get the saddle up off his ridiculous withers. 

Your boy looks more solid than mine, so I doubt he'd have any problems. However it is good to be mindful that you _might_ be too big - it helps remind myself to ride light, and my seat has improved so much since I've been so aware of the fact that, at his age, my weight could be extra detrimental to his health.


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## SammysMom

Good advice, *Tracer*. I always post at the trot and don't do gaming or anything extreme. I'll be sure to pay attention to how I ride, though.


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## bsms

Slightly off-topic, but Wiki has a good review of medieval war horses & their size:

Horses in the Middle Ages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​


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## Country Woman

SammysMom said:


> Reading the thread about that 10% study has me all nervous. I will NEVER be 100-120 pounds (and don't have/don't want a draft horse), and it's going to be tough for me to get to even 15% any time soon. I've always just trusted my trainers and experienced barn-mates to help me decide what horses I can ride.
> 
> I'm 5'5" and 260lbs with good balance. Recently, I've been riding a 15.1/1200 Appy (average build, a little chunky), which my trainer assigned to me when I started taking lessons with her. Then I leased a gypsy cross who's 15.1/1400.
> 
> I just bought a paint who's 15.2/1150. He's 10, very healthy, lots of energy and fairly stout (people joke he looks like a draft x) — nothing dainty about him. That puts me at 22.6% right now, and I've been losing weight. The weight I hope to arrive at soon would put me at about 15-16%.
> 
> So my question...do you think being heavier than recommended for a year or so would do any damage to a healthy horse? I wouldn't ride him at 25 at my current weight, but it seems like it should be ok for now as long as he doesn't seem uncomfortable. What do you think?
> 
> This is my boy:


Good luck with you weight loss and your new horse 
he is stunning


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## SammysMom

Thanks, *Country Woman*! He's really my dream horse


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## BlueSpark

I would hesitate to put more than 30%(rider and tack) on any horse, with a few exceptions.

conformation and fitness are huge. A long backed 1200 horse will likely be less capable than a short backed 800lb horse. a horse with conformation issues may need a lighter rider. 

a less balanced rider will be harder on their horse than a balanced one.

also what is being done with the horse is factored in. jumping is hard on a horse, add a very large rider and you are certainly putting unnecessary strain on joints.

generally, if the horse is decently put together and not being ridden too hard, a larger rider should be fine. I have seen horses struggling under riders that weighed too much for them, and it makes me cringe.

keep in mind that the small horses bred hundreds of years ago that carried large amounts of weight had to be sound. an unsound horse, unless it could be repurposed as a breeding animal, was destroyed. they were all bred for soundness, unlike many types of horses today where the focus is on one specific thing(like speed) or on looks, and where a huge percentage of horses have regular lameness issues. the horses today are typically not as tough, sound, or as well put together from a using standpoint.


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## SammysMom

Thanks, *BlueSpark*. My boy is very sound, and I'm at about 22-23% now and fairly well-balanced, so I think based on what you and the others have said I should be ok. He certainly doesn't act grumpy about it so far — this one has lots of spring in his step


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## Country Woman

SammysMom said:


> Reading the thread about that 10% study has me all nervous. I will NEVER be 100-120 pounds (and don't have/don't want a draft horse), and it's going to be tough for me to get to even 15% any time soon. I've always just trusted my trainers and experienced barn-mates to help me decide what horses I can ride.
> 
> I'm 5'5" and 260lbs with good balance. Recently, I've been riding a 15.1/1200 Appy (average build, a little chunky), which my trainer assigned to me when I started taking lessons with her. Then I leased a gypsy cross who's 15.1/1400.
> 
> I just bought a paint who's 15.2/1150. He's 10, very healthy, lots of energy and fairly stout (people joke he looks like a draft x) — nothing dainty about him. That puts me at 22.6% right now, and I've been losing weight. The weight I hope to arrive at soon would put me at about 15-16%.
> 
> So my question...do you think being heavier than recommended for a year or so would do any damage to a healthy horse? I wouldn't ride him at 25 at my current weight, but it seems like it should be ok for now as long as he doesn't seem uncomfortable. What do you think?
> 
> This is my boy:


I love the coloring of your horse just stunning


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## Country Woman

This Me and Lamar Iam 5'6'' and Lamar is 14 hh


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## SammysMom

Country Woman said:


> I love the coloring of your horse just stunning


Thank you!! Quite the cutie you have there, as well


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## Country Woman

Not my horse it was a friends horse but she sold him to a good home


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## Saddlebag

Hundreds of years ago riders were skinny and wiry. Many easily fit a 14" seat. And many were 5'3 to 5'6"


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## Country Woman

But not now
now riders come in all shapes and sizes 
and horses too


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## SammysMom

Saddlebag said:


> Hundreds of years ago riders were skinny and wiry. Many easily fit a 14" seat. And many were 5'3 to 5'6"


But horses have also changed. Even in recent centuries horses the size of your average QH were used to pull artillery and the smaller ones for riding during war. I know there are a lot of factors, but saying that riders used to be smaller doesn't necessarily mean much. Even if everyone was 100 lbs and rode 1700-lb drafts, that wouldn't give any information about whether the same horse COULDcarry 200 just as easily.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cowgirllinda1952

*I've attended horse shows where very heavy women rode, and won in western pleasure, equtation, and so forth. Their horses did not look as if they were on the verge of collapse. And what about big tall men who weigh that much or more?*


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## Country Woman

Look at James Arness aka Matt Dillon he was 6'7'' and 200 he rode 
a horse that was 15:3 and John Wayne


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## jewelerin74

One of my rescues was neglected for bucking off her 300 or so pound owner on a 14hh small structered horse. He was a good guy but after that he broke some vertebra's and everyone was scared of the horse. So this horse sat in the pasture for about 3 yrs. I now own this horse along with the other one(that went through the same thing of not being ridden even though she did nothing) there was many factors that made it happened that the guy carelessly did it with no preperations and checking if the horse was ready. (specially sense they just got these horses and hadn't been ridden in years before that.) I have not had this horse buck once. She is a total sweatheart with the best a personality. So I say you are fine and just watch the horse. If you have already hopped on and you weren't on the ground, I think you will do just fine! Your horse will let you know just like mine let the guy know. And your paint is apsolutely adorable!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

Both Jim Arness and John Wayne rode pretty stout horses, especially in JW's later years. At one show, in an English class, a young lad in the bleachers yelled to his mother "Why is that lady who's going to have a baby riding a horse?" I knew the woman and she wasn't pregnant.


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## SammysMom

Saddlebag;3214681At one show said:


> Oof. I cringed just thinking about it. This is why I'm afraid to show...


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## Country Woman

never be afraid to show


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## Red Gate Farm

Country Woman said:


> Look at James Arness aka Matt Dillon he was 6'7'' and 200 he rode a horse that was 15:3 and John Wayne


James Arness rode John Wayne? Where's the pic of _that_!?:lol:


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## Country Woman

I meant to say John Wayne rode a 15:2hh horse


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## DimSum

bsms said:


> Slightly off-topic, but Wiki has a good review of medieval war horses & their size:



Interesting article, thanks for posting it


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## Sorayita08OTTB

I am a heavygirl and HAVE NOT ridden my horse since I bought her over fera of being to heavy. I will be having my saddle fitter & Massage therapist out tomorrow so I am going to ask her she will be honest I would think as everyone else including vet says go for it but, no....can't do it. I am going to see a 2,000lb draft tomorrow and riding her does ot worry me as well as my friends draft X who is 14.3 but, wide as can be. My horse is a tall TB she is not a narrow one but, she is long backed. UGHHH this thread is very interesting. Do you feel awkward going to try out a new horse being big I do actually but, it is what it is. I guess.


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## Golden Horse

cowgirllinda1952 said:


> *. And what about big tall men who weigh that much or more?*


Ah now that is so different, some people are anti fat riders, rather really worrying about weight per se.


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## SammysMom

*Sorayita*, I did feel awkward, but I made sure to ask the sellers if they thought the horse would be ok with a heavy rider, and no one batted an eye when I went to look at their horses (I'm assuming because if they didn't want a big rider on their horses they wouldn't have said they could handle one). Do you mind if I ask how big your mare is?

Yep, *Golden Horse*, I agree it's a lot different. I definitely see where "anti fat rider" camp is coming from, although of course I hope to be spared from judgment when riding a suitable horse. Generally there's a huge difference in weight distribution and balance between a 250lb 6' person and a 250-pound 5'4" person. So when I talk about weight, I don't mean "Can this horse carry this many pounds?" I mean "Can this horse comfortable haul my fat butt around?" :lol:


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## Palomine

When you are heavy, and talking myself here too.

It is doubly important to assess saddle fit with you mounted. And also to keep the rules of saddle fitting you in mind, instead of just wedging yourself into any saddle you can.

As for the cavalry comments? Those men would DIE if their horse went lame and they could not keep up with the unit. There were no equine transports, and no one could double up either when riding to battle, or out of patrol.

That is why the rule of thumb was tighter in weight. A horse carrying a heavier load was more apt to break down and the odds weren't good if you lagged behind when the Indians attacked either. Your horse was your life.

As for your weight, keep working at it, as you will find you ride much better the lighter you get. 

And while people may say they are balanced at higher weights? Still not as balanced as you are at lower weight. Weight is weight. Doesn't matter if you are in Crocs or en pointe. You still weigh what you weigh.

Saying I am balanced is just whitewashing.


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## Golden Horse

Palomine said:


> And while people may say they are balanced at higher weights? Still not as balanced as you are at lower weight. Weight is weight. Doesn't matter if you are in Crocs or en pointe. You still weigh what you weigh.
> 
> Saying I am balanced is just whitewashing.


But is weight just weight?

Right up front let me say that I am not arguing your basic premise, I know only to well that I'm a better rider when I'm lighter, no arguing there, but weight is weight? I wonder:is board, Hiphophorseman is tall, nearly 7' if I remember, and very solid, he weighs more than most, but looks fit.

I saw a video the other day of a person who may well be within the 20% rule , I don't know, but this person is not a tidy rider, they appear to pull themself up by the reins to post, for instance.

Seems that there are good and bad riders of every weight, gender, color and creed and in every discipline, it is the matching of the right horse and rider, and the correct tack and discipline that makes a happy partnership.


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## bsms

A heavy person whose weight is largely bone & muscle is more likely to balance well. There are enough challenges in balancing on a horse - at least for those of us who started later in life - without fighting extra weight as well. If I had to put on the battle gear I wore in Afghanistan while riding, it wouldn't be just my horse who would complain!

But that doesn't mean someone cannot ride. The back injury I received with Mia's help in Jan 2009 probably did more harm to my balance and ability to move with the horse than an extra 50 or 75 lbs of weight would. 

If you have a physical limitation - be it a fat belly or a rigid back - you may need to make some compromises in your riding. No jumping, for example, or no starting a green horse who doesn't know how to balance a person's weight. It may mean you need to use a western saddle to distribute the weight over a larger area, or limit your rides to 30 or 45 minutes instead of 3 hours. It may well mean using a mounting block, or selecting a horse with thick loins and thick legs. It may mean taking lessons, and taking those lessons seriously. 

But with some adjustments, you can still ride. And riding often gives one the incentive to lose weight, or to work on getting your back more flexible. It can also help create a positive attitude toward life, and that often helps with weight. I doubt I'm the only one on this forum who, after having a rough day, has saddled up his horse and ridden her largely to relax. I've even told her, while saddling up, "We're not going anywhere particular this evening...I just want the pleasure of your company." And being the supremely egotistical mare that she is, she seems to understand - after all, who wouldn't want her company? :lol:

I've seen a 100 lb girl bounce so much that the horse pinned its ears, and shortly after that refused to canter or go any faster than a slow trot. With some skill, a good saddle, a fit horse, and an appropriate agenda for the ride, a person can reasonably ride up to about 30% of the horse's weight. But it is important, as the load increases, to have some control measures to care for the horse. They are forgiving creatures, but we need to make sure we don't give them too much to forgive...


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## toosexy4myspotz

I dont agree with weight is weight because trying to move dead weight verses limber weight is a MAJOR difference. Moving something that is reluctant to move (a stiff rider) verses moving something with some give (a limber rider) is like night and day.


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## Sorayita08OTTB

SammysMom said:


> *Sorayita*, I did feel awkward, but I made sure to ask the sellers if they thought the horse would be ok with a heavy rider, and no one batted an eye when I went to look at their horses (I'm assuming because if they didn't want a big rider on their horses they wouldn't have said they could handle one). Do you mind if I ask how big your mare is?
> 
> Yep, *Golden Horse*, I agree it's a lot different. I definitely see where "anti fat rider" camp is coming from, although of course I hope to be spared from judgment when riding a suitable horse. Generally there's a huge difference in weight distribution and balance between a 250lb 6' person and a 250-pound 5'4" person. So when I talk about weight, I don't mean "Can this horse carry this many pounds?" I mean "Can this horse comfortable haul my fat butt around?" :lol:


Yes, she is 16.2hh and about 1,200lbs if not a bit more


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