# Tossing up between stallions



## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I am tossing up between two stallions for my next bubby. Both have been offered to me by default, the prices have been reduce considerably. 

In the foal, ideally I want to produce something that isn't going to be a giant, with 3 good paces (in particuar good hock and knee action) with the ability to collect, and a good trainable/ridable temeprament. 

I can decide on two mares, either a very nicely put together 15.2h tb mare, or a 16h wb mare who has competed PSG and is absolutely lovely but doesn't have the most appealing temeprament under saddle. Her previous foal is fine under saddle though. 

So now I have to toss up between these stallions. 
Royal Hit

[ smash hit (imp) - revelwood ]

No I don't want a lecture on why not to breed, I've heard it all before and this is not a case of backyard breeding, I have two quality mares which to chose from, and both stallions are extremely well recognised as excellent sires and progeny to prove that. I intend to keep the foal, and should circumstances change, I have plenty of people lined up who would take such a cross of lines in a heartbeat. Yes I am aware of the risks etc. I've been there done that. So no lectures ok, just an hounest opinion of the stallions.


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## Kaioti (Dec 3, 2009)

My vote is for Royal Hit. I like his foals better, and I can't put my finger on it, but something bugged me about the way he was going in the youtube video.


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

goodness, that is quite a difficult choice. haha. i'm also having a hard time choosing, but i personally would go with Royal Hit simply because he seems to have quite a few offspring who have proven very high quality.

ETA: i also very much like Royal Hit's blood line. some very nice horses there :]


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah I am leaning towards Royal Hit, he's only in Aus for 1 more year and is just such an amazing quality stallion, everyone raves about him and all his progeny are very well stamped by him.
However Smash Hit is only pretty new and I really adore him, I've heard great things about him and have had a word to his rider and she is absolutely bessotted with him.
Hmmmmm not sure, there's a few other stallions I'd love to use but I just have a deal on these two.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Ok this is another boy that I'm very keen on. He's only new and young, but again, I've heard people raving about him. 
Fürst Love

His service is not much more than the discounted rate I'd have on the other two, as he is still in the first season of service here in Australia.


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## Painted Hotrod (Dec 3, 2009)

Royal Hit's babies are very nice 
I vote Royal Hit! hehe


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

hmm, im really liking Furst Love. he's not quite as proven as Royal Hit, but he has a fantastic pedigree.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yep xeventer17, thats what I was thinking, he has excellent pedigree and apparently has a super temperament. Royal Hit is superb, however I am only short so don't want something that is going to be over 16.2h 16.3h at an absolute stretch and I know that he does throw tall foals.


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## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

I say royal hit! definitely.
I'd like to see a confo shot of Furst Love though


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

well that being the case, i would go with Furst Love. something about him just really draws me.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Smash Hit video




 
Royal Hit video




 
Still trying to dig up a Furst Love video, I also like Furst Kiss, but I've heard that his semen is a bit hit and miss


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Kayty said:


> I am tossing up between two stallions for my next bubby. Both have been offered to me by default, the prices have been reduce considerably.
> 
> In the foal, ideally I want to produce something that isn't going to be a giant, with 3 good paces (in particuar good hock and knee action) with the ability to collect, and a good trainable/ridable temeprament.
> 
> ...


To be honest, I would stay away from the mare with the temper. Your foal will be spending the first few and most crucial months of its life around it's dam, so if it's a mare who's ill tempered and has some bad habits or things she doesn't like, the foal will be imitating and learning from that. I would stay away.

As for the stallion, they both have stunning conformation tho it seems that second one is a little more accomplished? I would choose the second one.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah I was leaning a little from the mare with the temper undersaddle, I've always been wary of breeding mares with bad attitudes under saddle if you looking at somethign that is rideable. Yes she is very trainable and a great mover etc, and did extremely well undersaddle, but something just snapped in her and she would crack it at every oppertunity under saddle unfortunately.

I'm very dissapointed the original mare I was going to use is not able to be bred now, she's a beautifull liver chestnut hannoverian with superb paces, conformation and temperament, with amazing trainablility, beautifull to ride and fantastic competition results to back her up, but her hind legs have gone and she's going to be put down. 

Royal Hit is definately a favourite stallion in Aus at the moment and was very popular in Germany too, I'm just wary of the size foals that he throws, and also the fact that I'd prefer him over the Tb mare, but she is only little and a maiden as far as I know.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

If you want a trully royally bred DRESSAGE stallion it would be Smash Hit.

Has better movement also.

The Dam on this stallion is St.Pr and from exceptional lines.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Spyder I was hoping you'd reply to this thread I value your opinions!! Seeing as both mares are chestnut and I'd prefer not to get a chestnut mare (**** red headed females I've had enough of them), as well as the above mentioned size issues etc. I do really like Smash Hit. Also a big fan of Royal Hit because he has some absolutely sensational progeny, but there are so many of them around here now, every second foal is a Royal Hit baby. Not so many Smash Hits yets.... hmmm it's a tough decision, breeding is so exciting yet the decision making is the worst bit!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Kayty said:


> Spyder I was hoping you'd reply to this thread I value your opinions!! Seeing as both mares are chestnut and I'd prefer not to get a chestnut mare (**** red headed females I've had enough of them), as well as the above mentioned size issues etc. I do really like Smash Hit. Also a big fan of Royal Hit because he has some absolutely sensational progeny, but there are so many of them around here now, every second foal is a Royal Hit baby. Not so many Smash Hits yets.... hmmm it's a tough decision, breeding is so exciting yet the decision making is the worst bit!


 
Sometimes you have to rely on breeding.

I did. My own stallion was from the first crop of foals and was the first foal from an outside mare. They test bred his sire but no foals were on the ground when I bred my mare. I went by both the breeding of the sire and how well he would compliment my mare. 

I also narrowed it down to two stallions when I was looking at stallions. Both would have done the job but Spyder's sire went one step farther and went through extra testing for ability and was top stallion in that testing. The other stallion was also well bred and won at eventing in its first year and also had no babies on the ground. 

Seems I made the right choice as the rejected stallion did nothing more of any worth but my boy's sire continued to be champion in dressage and hunter.

In your case either stallion will probably produce a baby worth the breeding but depending on the mare you choose the Smash Hit one could generate the most interest. I like Smash Hits movement better as being more pure and from the hind with a more open shoulder and if he can pass that on then all the better.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I'll put up a few photo's of the mares, I'd love your opinion Spyder on who you think would be best with the above mentioned stallions. 

Mare 1 (my favourite- she doesn't have the flashiest paces, however she is put together quite nicely, solid for a Tb and a lovely temperament both on the ground and under saddle)

























Mare 2 (WB x ASH, proven breeder, has competed PSG successfully however she went a bit stupid under saddle and was retired as a broodie as a result- not the best worth ethic!)









Mare 3- (Another WB x ASH. Very sweet little mare with reasonable paces)


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

I don't know anything about dressage, but I would go for mare 1 or 3. (3 is my favorite, but you know the mares and mre about what you want)  good luck. I'm sure you will have a gorgeous baby.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Ok, I say go for Smash Hit. He has some really nice bloodlines and I'm a sucka for a RevelWood horses. I actually ride my friend's horse a lot who she bought from there.
I really like his movement and although there isn't that many foals on the ground, I'd breed from him. He's got a really nice compact shape and that free-jump of his is amazing!

Sorry off topic but that's my friend's horse. She bought him from RevelWood and they were really easy and friendly to deal with 
[ argentille gidji - revelwood ]


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

SmoothTrails, yeah I'm more looking into the 1st mare, but the little buckskin is a nice girl too. The second mare looks a bit ordindary there because she'd only just foaled, but she is a nice girl. I just worry about her temperament under saddle, and I don't think the either of the stalliosn would go so well over her as the first mare. 

Gidji, how gorgeous is your friends horse he's lovely!!!! I have heard some really good things about revelwood stud being good to deal with, haha I'd use all of their stallions if I could! But yep, I'm into the compact types, Royal Hit is a **** fine type too, but lots of people here seem to be prefering Smash Hit... hmmm decisions decisions!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

I like the overall look of mare 3.

Two is a proven breeder which is a consideration and if the foals produced are of higher quality than the dam then I would put her as a back up mare in reserve. I do not like the look of this mare's front legs and the shoulder is a bit straight.

Mare 1 is nice looking with a better shoulder but I do not like her hind end. I also tend to shy away from mare that seem to have their necks go straight out like a hunter. This is just my thing and there is no justification to rejecting such a mare...I just don't like them.

Mare three is the kind of mare that I like. Good head carriage, nice (not spectacular) movement. Nice shoulder, nice topline, lovely neck and evenly built front to back. There is a lot of stallions that a mare like this can be bred to and finding a stallion for this built/type of mare is a lot easier than the other two.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks again Spyder, once again your opinion is very valid here. I am curious about your thought on mare 3, most people I know seem to prefer the first mare, the 3rd would probably be the most convenient for me also. 
Do you think either of the stallions I am looking at would compliment the 3rd mare?


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Kayty said:


> Thanks again Spyder, once again your opinion is very valid here. I am curious about your thought on mare 3, most people I know seem to prefer the first mare, the 3rd would probably be the most convenient for me also.
> Do you think either of the stallions I am looking at would compliment the 3rd mare?


 
Yes I do. Mainly because the mare has no major "faults" that require a special stallion to fix. To me if I had a broodmare herd this is the kind I like to have fill it. With good temperment and movement they are worth their weight in gold. Even more so if they are easy breeders.

Consider them as blank slates and if they either improve themselves or at least produce nothing that is of lesser quality then you can't go far wrong.

The only thing I would ask is any of the mares registered?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I look at the lines before I look at anything else. I have found that a lot of lines produce a lot of the same things so you know what to expect.
I also like a lot of jumper lines in my dressage horses. I feel it makes them more compact and as long as the hind end is well shaped for dressage - they have more power too.
Personally, I don't like Sandro Hit. I find his offspring to have comparably tiny hind ends and not the best hind leg. They are also not an amateur's horse. You really get a toss up when it comes to their personalities but depending on the cross you can get some rank ******s. They tend towards being hot as well, and their movement while flashy is not super ride able for an amateur.
I am definitely a Rubenstein person. Loooove that line. I have a horse grandsired by him. Royal Hit also has more proven progeny than the other one. Personally I am leaning towards him as far as producing a good amateur's horse who is still talented.
Also look at Dancier, he is a great up and coming stud. Again, not much proven, but apparently he is an absolute song to ride and from what I have seen from the few foals of his I know is that he throws a really correct and uphill horse with personality plus.
And if you really like the Rubenstein and aren't crazy about the Ramiro on the dam side, Rotspon is another wonderful stallion.

About the mares, personally I'm not a TB person. I don't get along well with them so as a result I don't even bother looking at them. I'd love to see the other mares' breeding before deciding. A lot of times an unwillingness under saddle can be related to training, or the soundness of the horse. She made it to PSG, she may not have been capable of doing GP or the training might not have been to her taste. There is really no such thing as an unwilling horse - just the wrong kind of training. You just have to decide what your kind of training is and breed to that taste.

Good Luck!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks a heap for that Anabelle! I am also a fan of the Rubsentein lines which is another reason why I'm really tossing up between these too. 
The mare the got to PSG, I know she was with a very good top rider in the eastern states and doing well, but she was spelled for a while and sold to the current owner who is also a lovely rider, posisbly they just didn't click? She is of holstein breeding, will have to find her lines though.

The little buckskin is out of an australian stock horse mare, which I actually really like! They have awesome unflappable temperaments, and usually very compact types. I will find out who the stallion is, he's not a hugely well known boy but I'll try and dig it up. 
As I said before, I really want something that has a good temperament, so not something that is going to be super hot under saddle. It doesn't have to have really huge flashy paces, just 3 nice ones, with a really solid walk and canter.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I vote mare three and stally one, I think they would go nicely and produce a lovely foal.

These two seem to have nice movement and their aesthetics seem to compliment each other IMO. Though I do not know much about dressage and the proper breeding for a good dressage horse...


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## lolayla (Jul 25, 2008)

i know nothing about dressage so take this with a grain of salt but out of the stallions Smash Hit is the most appealing to me. and out of the mares i like mare #1 the best and then mare #3. i really dont like the confo on mare #2.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Furst Love would be my choice.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

^^I thought that too at first...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oddly enough, I know nothing about dressage but I am in complete agreement with Spyder. I like Smash Hit the best of the stallions, he just strikes me as a nicer horse than the others. His pasterns seem a bit longer (though not too long) and at a better angle than Royal Hit's giving him a bit more cushion. Something about Furst Love's front end really bugs me. It's almost like his legs are put on crooked.

As for the mares, I like 3 the best (though I am slightly awestruck by her color LOL) and after her, I would choose 1. I don't like anything about mare #2. Her front legs are horrible and her shoulder is too straight. Couple that with a bad attitude under saddle and I don't think I would personally look at her again.

Although, again, I know nothing about dressage. I am simply judgeing on what I would deem as the best "using" horses.


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## Copperfield (May 9, 2012)

*FURST KISS by Furst Piccolo Stallion at Stud*

Kayty, your post has been noted to us re. The comment about Furst Kiss semen being a bit suspect. We can assure you that if you are talking about the Furst Kiss stallion by Furst Piccolo - that he has super semen, and we have a list of vets that can confirm this fact.


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## ClaireDee (Dec 22, 2010)

Copperfield said:


> Kayty, your post has been noted to us re. The comment about Furst Kiss semen being a bit suspect. We can assure you that if you are talking about the Furst Kiss stallion by Furst Piccolo - that he has super semen, and we have a list of vets that can confirm this fact.


i'd say you're about 2 1/2 years late for the party....


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## kartmom67 (Jan 25, 2012)

I'd recommend choosing the mare with the best temperament. If she's difficult under saddle, the movement means nothing. I've had it all in warmbloods. I had an absolutely stunning Rotspon/Weltmeyer who had/has the nastiest, most dishonest disposition under saddle. And I currently have an average moving Weltmeyer/Graf Remus mare who I can make look striking in the dressage arena because she allows me to and works with me. Her temperament and looks are stellar. On to the stallions, I like Royal Hit. I don't care too much for the Sandro Hit offsping but that is a personal choice. I'm struggling with a stallion for my mare too. It is so hard, too many very nice stallions to choose from. I feel your pain!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Guys, this thread is from 2009 XD


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Copperfield I have responded to you elsewhere - do some research before pointing fingers, I am referring to FIRST Kiss by FRENCH KISS, iAustralia.


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## kartmom67 (Jan 25, 2012)

LOL just realized this was an old post! Wonder who she went with anyway? How'd the baby turn out?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I was the OP 
And ended up deciding not to do it, I found a really lovely weanling by Fisherman's Friend that I ended up purchasing. He's now 19 months old


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