# Wintec saddles - cair or flock - pictures?



## HeidiNorway

Hi!
Is there a big difference on cair or flock on the Wintec saddles? 
And does anyone have pictures of any wintecs on a horse?


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## kwal83

The difference is C.A.I.R. is air and flocking is flocking material. I have a Wintec Dressage Pro with C.A.I.R. and it is the most comfortable saddle I have. The air panels really absorb shock, both from you and the horse, and it's literally like riding on air.


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## crimson88

I have a wintec with Cair. It's a really nice feature and it really "molds" to the horse.


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## MIEventer

It all depends on wether your horse needs a Non Gusseted Panel, or a Gusseted Panel.

I have the Wintec with C.A.I.R and the air filled panels do not form to your horses back - I can attest to this. The panels with the C.A.I.R are too gusseted for my TB's back shape - where he needs panels that are flatter and at more of an angle / - they are too thick, too round and too horizontal -.

If I do get another Wintec, I am definately going to go with a Wool Flocked Panel instead of the C.A.I.R. 

Also, the benefits of having the woold flocking, is that you can have it adjusted to accomodate your horses back shape, where with C.A.I.R - you cannot. With Wool Flocking, it will settle over time with use, where the C.A.I.R does not.

I find that Wintecs are nice saddles, but they fit a minimal # of horses backs - and the C.A.I.R panels are a great idea, but again - they work for a minimal # of horses backs. 

My advice, go with wool flocking. That way you can have the panels shaped in accordance to accomodate your horses back when need-be, by a professional saddle maker/fitter.

You cannot do that with the C.A.I.R.


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## hollybee

i have the wintec 500 dressage saddle with C.A.I.R. and i love it !
i will soon be buying the wintec close contact jumping saddle with C.A.I.R. aswell

i do have some pictures but my youngster has a polypad and a sheepskin half pad underneath it as his back needs building up because: for a start he has a long back which is quite weak and he had an ill-fitting saddle on when he was sent away to be backed (which caused tissue to build up on either side of his spine, which then had to be broken up as well as a few other things which were corrected) so the back lady who treated him advised me to really pad him up, he's building up nicely though so soon i'll only need a polypad underneath - WOO ! lol

i am just telling you this so i dont get any comments from people about "tack that fits properly shoudn't need padding" etc . . .

so i can post some pictures if you'd like me to ? but as i said there is a lot of padding underneath so im not sure how much help they will be


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## HeidiNorway

But is adjusting a wintec with flock more difficult than adjusting an other leather-saddle? Since it's synthetic and all that?


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## Saskia

Fiddling with the flocking in a Wintec isn't harder than a normal saddle, its just the material that its made out of. 

Saying that I would buy Cair. I have a Cair saddle and have used it on many horses and it has fit them all well. Combined with the changeable gullet you Cair makes a very versatile saddle. 

For a standard leather saddle to get a good fitter to come out and fit it very well you are looking about $80 - $120 or so. You can get people who claim to fit saddles but I have found that generally they can't in my experience, there are people who have been doing it for years who generally work independantly of saddle stores and you can pick up some great fitters, and to be in the business that long they have to be - they are not working through a saddle store. Horses change shape depending on work and pasture, and if this changes throughout the year, you may need to get the fitter out three or more times, or start using pads under parts of the saddle etc. 

With a Cair you can generally alter it to fit yourself. Sure there will be some horses it won't fit, but that is the case with every saddle. I think the Wintec Cair will fit a larger amount of horses with reasonably normal backs better than other saddles. I know that with the older wintecs you could flock behind the cair panels if you needed to change something - a horse with sunken withers etc. but its generally not needed. 

I would fully recommend a Cair Wintec or Bates - but like all saddles you should take it to your horse and see if it fits prior the confirming purchase - most Saddleries allow you to do this through someway - whether you leave a deposit or pay for them to come out - and its worth it.


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## MIEventer

> Combined with the changeable gullet you Cair makes a very versatile saddle.


I disagree. The Changeable Gullet makes the saddle fit the withers, not the shoulders or the back. Then there, lays faults in itself. You adjust the Gullet to widen, you now cause the issue of bridging. You can accomodate the wither, but you cannot accomodtae the back and you can accomodate the back, but you cannot accomodate the wither. 

You have to ensure that the panels and the saddle shape fits your horses back accordingly - you do not fit a saddle only through the width of the saddle. Whether it be Medium, narrow, wide, medium wide - there are far more to saddle fit than this - and that is where Wintec/Bates fail.

That is when, and only when a professional fitter/maker can help you. Then and only then, can they help if the saddle is wool flocked, and made with a hermes sprenger tree, or an adjustable tree - not a wintec or your commonly made leather saddles.



> With a Cair you can generally alter it to fit yourself.


I am curious to know how one can adjust the C.A.I.R panels themselves?


> I know that with the older wintecs you could flock behind the cair panels if you needed to change something


The Older Wintecs did not have the C.A.I.R panels


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## charliBum

I have a wintec close contact, cair
LOVE IT!

sorry their not good photos but ive found it the only saddle that is able to sit up off his shark fin wither

http://file049a.bebo.com/7/original/2009/09/05/09/8641930887a11547174080o.jpg
http://file051a.bebo.com/2/original/2009/09/05/09/8641930887a11547174039o.jpg


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## MIEventer

That's the one I am getting. My saddle fitter/maker told me that the Wintec CC will work for Nelson's A symetrical shaped back and high withers. He has concaved muscles as well as a banana shaped back - so the arch in the wintec CC's panels will accomodate that - but I need to go wool flocked, and stay away from the C.A.I.R panels.


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## charliBum

yeha I would do that, that way you can get it packed properly for his back. =]


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