# Do Pets go to Heaven?



## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Animals don't have a soul, therefore it is impossible for them to go to heaven. 
IMO, when you go to heaven, you will be so happy to be in the presence of God that you won't even think about animals not being there/being there.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

Sunny06 said:


> .
> IMO, when you go to heaven, you will be so happy to be in the presence of God that you won't even think about animals not being there/being there.


Hmm... That's a good point right there...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I believe animals have a "soul" and they will be in heaven or whatever afterlife you believe in if they mean that much to you.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I believe that animals will go to heaven. 

Why?
My trainer has a really good way of explaining it: In the Bible, in Revelation, it says that Jesus is going to come back on a white horse. Where did Jesus get this white horse if it didn't come from heaven? No horse on earth is gonna be perfect enough to be the steed of the king of the universe so he couldn't just grab a random white horse from down here. He must get it in heaven then, which means that there are horses in heaven and one can assume that our horses would be there too (because why would God create a whole new kind of horse just to be in heaven when he can just fix all our ponies and move on from there?).

Another good reason saying that animals go to heaven: God created them all because they made him and us happy. Now why would he create them to make him and us happy then shut them out of heaven? It just doesn't make sense. 

I personally am going to heaven, no doubt, but if my animals aren't there, heck, I don't want to go there either. I believe they do have souls because it just doesn't make any sense that they don't. How can they be our partners and friends and everything in between if they're soul-less? How can they mean so much to us and have no soul? 

My $0.02. =)


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Animals have _spirits_, not to be confused with _souls_.

Don't fly off the handle for me saying that. It is true, though.

And personally (just my opinion) I want to go there to be with God. I don't think I'll neccesarily care if Sunny is there or not :]

I have though, often wondered if animals would be there or not because, afterall, they DO make people happy.. But again the sight of God itsef has _got_ to be better than having 'Fifi' with you.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Sunny, 
Does your first statement (Animals have spirits, not souls) stem from the bible or elsewhere? If from the bible, could you tell me what they say the difference is (It's been quite a few years since i was active in any church)?


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Hold on let me see if I can find it. I think it is.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

In the mean time read this:

Does an Animal Have a Soul? - Succeed in Understanding Religion: School for Champions


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Hmm. Interesting. That just sort of solidified my belief that animals have souls! Go figure.

So what do you think about the "Does all life have a spirit" question? Do you think a person has a soul but can also have a spirit?


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## questionable (Aug 5, 2009)

nothing is left behind , sprits and souls walk together and animals go to heaven too !


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Here's a good quote I saw off another site:

_"Animals are not the ones who brought sin into the world; rather they are nothing but innocent victims of the destruction mankind has brought about: "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned…" (Rom 5:12 NIV). As a result, it wasn't necessary for Jesus to die for animals; it was necessary for Him to die for us."_

So, naturally, we assume that animals don't have a soul because there was no need for Jesus to die for them. Not saying they won't be in Heaven because, really. How would we know? Many people will make assumptions but only God really knows whether or not they are there or not.

If you look up 'animals in heaven' on Google there are SOO many different people's outlook on the subject it is crazy. But be forewarned: Don't believe evrything you read. I saw a verse on a website that believed animals went to heaven and they displayed a verse that said animals went to heaven. To be sure, I looked up the exact verse in the same version and what do you know? They website had purposely changed the verse to make it sound more convincing. It ended up having nothing to do with animals at all. And context is very important as well. Revelations contains many verses that sound promising, but they may be talking about a whoe different thing and are using examples to get the point across. 

Catch my drift or am I rambling? I will ask a friend tomorrow who is very experienced in the Bible area and maybe I can get some answere from him.

Got off-subject sorry


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I suppose that's why I think that animals have souls. For me, a soul is not necessarily given to humans because of Jesus's death on the cross. It is instead a persons being and similar to spirit which is why I asked you earlier. Obviously it's all up to interpretation, though. Thanks for looking that up for me, Sunny.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> .
> 
> So what do you think about the "Does all life have a spirit" question? Do you think a person has a soul but can also have a spirit?


 
Soul. Spirit. Two different things. Yes, humans have both.

Soul. Thing that goes to Heaven/Hell and is your spiritual 'spirit'. A spirit is what identifies you as 'alive', as in, what makes you you.

Gosh, can't explain it. 

I don't want to tell you the wrong thing by accident, let me do some research. It's a good subject. 

Religion with most people varies so I don't want to make the mistake of offending someone inadvertantly. I will pm you further if you are still interested.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

Okay, coming from a complete and utter atheist here (please no one try to convert me), but I'm not sure if I follow Sunny's logic.

Animals don't go to heaven because Jesus didn't need to die for them.

So, the animals are punished because they didn't screw up in the first place?

As for the OP's question, I don't know if that's something anyone can answer but yourself. They are YOUR beliefs after all, someone can't tell you what to believe any more than someone can tell you what your favourite colour should be.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

^ Animals don't neccesarily get 'punished'. 

They won't go to hell. They simply get pushed out of existance. 

Like I said, will research a little more before I jump in to a full-fledged 'lecture'. I don't want to share information twisted by ignorance in any way and give people wrong ideas


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

Okay, I can kind of understand that.

Atheists believe that when you die, you just die, as in, you cease to exist. (Totally having flying circus 'dead parrot' flashbacks)


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

Says in the Bible that animals have no soul. Therefore, no heaven for them.

However, maybe God is sending to their own little version of Heaven that he doesn't want us to know about?


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Tennessee said:


> Says in the Bible that animals have no soul. Therefore, no heaven for them.


Lol, want to help me find the correct one? I found all kinds of Revelation verses but those are in a whole diferent context...


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## HorsesHorses08 (Jul 7, 2009)

i believe every pet, good or bad, have a spirt and there for go to heaven. why would God have MADE animals if he did not have a plan for them? He has a "plan" for all of us so if he created animals then they have a place to go, where they can live forever and it should be with us..


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, this has the potential to be very controversial.  Lets all please remember to be civil and not bash anybody for how they believe.

IMHO, a person's or animal's personality and feelings come from having a soul. No one can tell me that a horse doesn't have a bad mood day every now and then or feel sad sometimes or happy other times. 

It all kinda comes down to how you define a "soul". Your definition could be way different than mine. I consider a soul and a spirit the same thing. In my mind, it is your characteristics, quirks, personality, feelings, etc. Everything about you that makes you, well....................................you. Your soul is what I commonly refer to when I talk about "heart". And I have met some horses that have more heart in one hoof trimming than a lot of _people_ have in their whole bodies.

It also matters on how you view the bible whether you consider it more of a guideline for how to live a good life or if you take it verbatim and believe that every single word happened in real life. There are so many variables to be considered and people believe what they were taught growing up. My grandparents believe that drinking, cussing, smoking, tattoos, piercings (other than 1 in each ear), and other things like that are sins and will send you straight to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200. However, they also believe that it is a mortal sin to sing with an organ in church :?. Do I believe any of that??? No. But it is what they were raised to believe and so that is what they believe. I believe that regardless of mistakes made, God will look in your heart to determine whether you will be acceptable for entrance into heaven. Do they believe that is the only way I will be judged??? No. 

Wars have been fought since the beginning of time over religion and I don't forsee it stopping anytime soon. We Christians believe in God and He is the only God and the Bible is His word. How do we know we're right?? How do we know that the Muslims and the Koran are wrong? Or that Buddah couldn't possibly be the one true God? Because that's what we were raised to believe.

Anyway, I could rant all night about what I believe so I will shorten it to only this. I am with Wallaby. God is great and all that and I am sure that if I make it to heaven, his presence will be awesome but heaven just wouldn't be heaven without the family I love. That includes my animals.

My brother put it perfectly when we buried Sis today. "That's not just some horse laying there. That's family. That's what makes this whole thing so **** hard."

I believe that animals have souls, yes. I also believe that they will be there in heaven when we get there. IMHO, eternity would be a really long time to do nothing but bask in the glow of God. I will have to have some activity when I get up there and I don't think that golf on the Golden course would be enough. ;p


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Well put, Smrobs.


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## QHChik (Jun 26, 2009)

I think that our pets go to heaven. I also feel strongly that they have souls. Our animals have the ability to trust, love, want, show emotions, etc. and I really don't think that would be possible if they didn't have a soul. I am also with whoever said that God created them, thus he must have a plan for them. 

Oh, and SMRobs, you brought me to tears in my office with what your brother said... I can totally relate.


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## ClassicalRomantic (Jun 2, 2009)

Smrobs very well said 

I'm not active in the church nor really consider myself any religion! I believe if you live your life well and make good judegements all that stuff that you will go to heaven..I believe in heaven and God yes but I don't believe you have to go to church or read the bible to go to heaven! I also believe that animals go to heaven! If they don't i'm not sure I want to go..it would not be the same without seeing all my beautiful children in my life there waiting on me...my animals is what keeps me going most of the time and after life without them would not be my ideal after life!


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Sunny, feel free to PM me your response. If animals simply get pushed out of existance when they die and therefore would not be able to be with god in heaven (the ultimate reward) wouldn't that be a punishment in itself?

Why would he give animals life including personalities, moods, and happiness/contentment only for them to have no afterlife with him? If an animal is innocent of sin, you would think they would be automatically granted an afterlife. 

As far as my own religion, I am a bit of everything. I think all religions are both wrong and right and religion is more than a Bible or any other religious text. I was raised Catholic and so as far as a religious "figure" I always go back to Jesus. However I wouldn't call myself a catholic so sorry if my questions bother you lol.

Smrobs, lovely post and I agree


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

If there are no animals in heaven, I'm not going. :wink:

I believe animals go to heaven. Why wouldn't they? Animals don't sin.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Sunny, feel free to PM me your response. If animals simply get pushed out of existance when they die and therefore would not be able to be with god in heaven (the ultimate reward) wouldn't that be a punishment in itself?
> 
> Why would he give animals life including personalities, moods, and happiness/contentment only for them to have no afterlife with him? If an animal is innocent of sin, you would think they would be automatically granted an afterlife.
> 
> ...


That's the thing, animals don't recognize God as 'God'. The Bible wasn't written for animals, it was written for us. 

I was thinking very hard, and I think maybe, just maybe animals _might_ be there. No animals don't have souls, but God has a 'plan' for them so I'm guessing they go there, not for 'being good' but for our enjoyment.

Will continue to look for that verse. Or you could search Biblegateway.com.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Jessabel said:


> If there are no animals in heaven, I'm not going. :wink:
> 
> I believe animals go to heaven. Why wouldn't they? Animals don't sin.



I agree there. Although, i dont believe in heaven hell or for the most part God. 

Animals have souls. Spirits and souls (imo) are the same thing. Sorry.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Sunny06 said:


> That's the thing, animals don't recognize God as 'God'.


How do you know? I worship God in many different ways during my day, I praise him with my artwork and when Lacey and I run together as one, how can you know for sure that Lacey isn't also praising God as she runs with me? How do you know she isn't exalting in his presence when she suddenly starts running through the pasture flagging her tail, looking very joyful? 

I agree that they probably don't think about God the same way we do, but I feel that they know God, I mean he is their creator and since they have no sin they wouldn't have forgotten that like humans have (that's not a put down to non Christians or anything, I'm just trying to make my point. =) )

Wow, this started sounding really PO-ed. Sorry.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

There isn't any way to know unless you can find a good verse in the correct context.


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## myQHpaul (Jun 25, 2009)

if my animals don't go to heaven, i want to go where they are.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Ah, theres another problem I had. I talked to a priest a few years ago. He told me that if there were one person, who lived a good life, thought there was something out there that was higher (a god of sorts) and essentially followed the rules in the bible but was unsure of the specifics of an afterlife (which religion is right? are they all partially right?) that person would go to hell. 
However if you have a person who lives their life in sin murders, rapes, etc and disregards any higher power for their entire life, but seconds before death accepts that Jesus is the correct choice, he will go to heaven. 

So is recognizing a god and living by the rules in the bible but not necissarily knowing what is correct good enough or must you accept Jesus and know 100% he is right to go to heaven?

This is the line where I get confused. I'm sure I have more of a concept of god than an animal because of being able to talk to other people, going to a church, etc. However were it not for my upbringing and catholoicisim being as huge as it is, I would be on the same page as animals. 

Again, Im sorry if I'm going too off subject here!


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> So is recognizing a god and living by the rules in the bible but not necissarily knowing what is correct good enough or must you accept Jesus and know 100% he is right to go to heaven?


Ok. Many people will not agree with me here but...

I don't beleive in 'feel good religion one saved always saved'. But before anyone gets their feathers ruffled, think about it. If you get 'saved' and continue to live a nasty, druggy, horrible life, do you REALLY think God will want to save you? No.

I believe in baptism, an outside symbol of what is going on 'inside you' when you get 'saved'. Your sins are 'washed away'. Now, of course, you must continue to live a godly-like manner or else, well, you won't go to Heaven. It's such an easy thing to do. Just be baptised. Sounds hokey perhaps, but Jesus himself was baptised.

Acts 2:38:

*38* Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 

That being said, you must continue to live by God's laws (10 Commandments), which aren't afterall, hard to live by. 

So yes, that's my look on it all. 

Off subject, I know, but I think this thread might be handy as long as nobody gets carried away.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

So far everyone seems civil.

I was baptised as a small child. I went to catholic school until highschool and was very devoted until the end when I began to comprehend things and question. I live by the 10 commandments, but I call that being a good person. For me, a lifetime of good deeds and living by "God's laws" is more valuable than living against them and then devoting yourself to him when you realize you're at the end. 

When I heard that, it bothered me. For me, "church" can be a much more internal thing than a building.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

^ A 'church' is the people. You are probably thinking of a church_ building_. 

Besides, if one truly loved God and want to love for Him, why do people feel that they can't set aside 1 hour of church a week?


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Ah, sorry. 
For ME a church is the people or one person. I feel too much emphasis is put on that one hour being spent inside a church BUILDING


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

What do you mean?


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

^ Meaning that people focus too much on whether of not someone sits for an hour a week inside a church building. 
Why does actually going to services matter?

I personally am not religious, at all. However I was raised Jewish, raised to believe in god, the ten commandments, etc. But not heaven. That being said, as I got older I just don't believe in any of that. There may be some sort of creator, but I don't believe in an afterlife, or God. I'd love to be wrong though. :]

If there's a heaven and my first horse Bo, and my other animals aren't there than I'm not sure I'd want to go anyway. Ha ha. But I cannot and will not believe that animals don't have a soul, whatever that may be. That thing that gives you your personality, your spark. No one could meet any of my animals and not see it.

Just my thoughts.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Gillian said:


> But not heaven. That being said, as I got older I just don't believe in any of that. There may be some sort of creator, but I don't believe in an afterlife, or God. I'd love to be wrong though. :]


^ Have you ever read the Bible? Or is it just one big 'lie' to you?

_'Why does actually going to services matter?'_

Umm.. Worshiping God.. Why not thank him for everything he's given you?

And listening to the preacher is basically just for spiritual help. Some people skip it or leave.

Communion is for remembering God's death and respecting it, being thankful for it, etc.


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## myQHpaul (Jun 25, 2009)

i was raised baptist but am a naturalist. i think when people and things die, they become part of nature. i can't imagine that there is a god who would deny someone who has lived a mostly innocent life and never accepted jesus as their savior, a seat in heaven for a murderer who repented right before he died. that would just be a cruel god to me.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Sunny06 said:


> ^ Have you ever read the Bible? Or is it just one big 'lie' to you?
> 
> _'Why does actually going to services matter?'_
> 
> ...


Sunny, do you mean this as harshly as it sounds? Seriously, stuff like that first line is one of the reasons most of my friends hate christians (except for me, they says I'm the one good one >.< ). They say we're super judgmental and we can't love anyone who doesn't believe what we do. I'm going to hope that it sounds more harsh written down than you meant it. 

Anyway, I believe that church is all about the communion with others. It's there to help us grow in our faith. I believe that yes you can be a Jesus follower without going to church but you won't be growing in your faith. 

It's kinda like why we're all part of this forum. We joined to learn about horses and to share our knowledge and have a good time. One could almost say that this is a horse "church" without the worship bit of course. haha Without this forum we'd still love horses but we might not know as much and be as up to date on their care as we are since we're here. We could still call ourselves horsewomen and horsemen without the forum but we might not be as educated as we are with the forum. Does that make any sense?


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

[directed towards QHPaul] He asked specifically for us to be saved. 

It's the sad truth and I think of that (^^) a lot. Why would God do that to an innocent person? But again, God said specifically that he wants us to be saved through Him and through Him only. So really, innocent is well, it's hard to explain because I don't fully understand it myself


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> I agree there. Although, i dont believe in heaven hell or for the most part God.
> 
> Animals have souls. Spirits and souls (imo) are the same thing. Sorry.


I do believe in an afterlife. It seems kind of pointless and empty if we never went anywhere after death. It would make no sense. 

And I don't believe for a minute that animals don't have an afterlife or a final reward or whatever you want to call it. Human beings as a species are corrupt and cruel, while animals are completely innocent. If anyone deserves eternal paradise, it's animals. And I agree that spirits and souls are the same thing.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I believe animals have a "soul" and they will be in heaven or whatever afterlife you believe in if they mean that much to you.


I compltly agree with you.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Wallaby said:


> Sunny, do you mean this as harshly as it sounds? Seriously, stuff like that first line is one of the reasons most of my friends hate christians (except for me, they says I'm the one good one >.< ). They say we're super judgmental and we can't love anyone who doesn't believe what we do. I'm going to hope that it sounds more harsh written down than you meant it.
> 
> *Nope, I was trying as hard as I could to be honest without being insulting. And for the record, I'm not a Christian. YET. I'm still figuring everything out myself.*
> 
> ...


My writing in bold.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Sunny06 said:


> [directed towards QHPaul] He asked specifically for us to be saved.
> 
> It's the sad truth and I think of that (^^) a lot. Why would God do that to an innocent person? But again, God said specifically that he wants us to be saved through Him and through Him only. So really, innocent is well, it's hard to explain because I don't fully understand it myself


I agree that it's sad but on the plus side I do understand the purpose of it and I'll try to explain.

Ok, so when Jesus died on the cross he took all every christian's sins and paid for them through his perfect-ness. So in Gods eyes we are sinless. We do sin of course but when we ask for forgiveness God wipes whatever sin we've committed off the record. We shouldn't just use that to sin of course! As christians we need to work our hardest to not sin but it's no big deal if we sin becuase as long as we ask for forgiveness, it's all good.

The reason a person can rape and murder their whole life away, become a christian in their last moments and go to heaven while a relatively innocent non christian person goes to hell is because in God's eyes everyone's sins are pretty much on a similar level. It's like a 5lb bag of sugar poured out in a pile. God's perfection is like the whole pile. The rapist/murders perfection is like one grain while the relatively innocent persons perfection is like 3 grains. In comparison to the whole pile 4 grains is nothing and one grain verses 3 isn't really anything either when you have millions of grains sitting there. Does that make sense? =)


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Not trying to convert of course, only explaining my religion/opinion.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Wallaby said:


> I agree that it's sad but on the plus side I do understand the purpose of it and I'll try to explain.
> 
> Ok, so when Jesus died on the cross he took all every christian's sins and paid for them through his perfect-ness. So in Gods eyes we are sinless. We do sin of course but when we ask for forgiveness God wipes whatever sin we've committed off the record. We shouldn't just use that to sin of course! As christians we need to work our hardest to not sin but it's no big deal if we sin becuase as long as we ask for forgiveness, it's all good.
> 
> The reason a person can rape and murder their whole life away, become a christian in their last moments and go to heaven while a relatively innocent non christian person goes to hell is because in God's eyes everyone's sins are pretty much on a similar level. It's like a 5lb bag of sugar poured out in a pile. God's perfection is like the whole pile. The rapist/murders perfection is like one grain while the relatively innocent persons perfection is like 3 grains. In comparison to the whole pile 4 grains is nothing and one grain verses 3 isn't really anything either when you have millions of grains sitting there. Does that make sense? =)


Ahah!! Lovely point! Brings us back to.. I don't beleive in 'feel-good religion once saved always saved'. Meaning, if one lives his life great, and another one lives a horrible druggy life, God will NOT save them. Would you? No.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

*"Yes and no. Church is for well, worshipping I suppose you could say.*"

I agree that church is for worshipping (that's why I put qualifiers on the horse "church idea =) ) but at the same time, church is not the only place you can worship. God wants us to worship him with our lives and our entire lives cannot happen inside a church building. Church worship should be a supplement to our daily worship that goes on through our actions, our prayers, our thoughts and everything else we do. 

And Sunny? Good for you for doing your research before getting into Christianity. There are too many people who hear preachers say stuff about going to heaven and how you're life will be changed and all that and just jump right in without knowing what they're getting into. Good job. =)


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Thank you, I appreciate it


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Sunny06 said:


> Not trying to convert of course, only explaining my religion/opinion.
> 
> Ahah!! Lovely point! Brings us back to.. I don't beleive in 'feel-good religion once saved always saved'. Meaning, if one lives his life great, and another one lives a horrible druggy life, God will NOT save them. Would you? No.


First part: Are you being sarcastic? I'm not trying to convert anyone if that's what you're saying, you said you didn't understand so I was explaining, no conversion innuendo. 

I actually believe once saved always saved. But I do believe that people who fall into drugs/murdering/raping all that sort of thing weren't actually saved to begin with. They may have accepted Jesus but they only gave him one room of their heart instead of every room and since when you're actually factually saved you give him every room, voila my belief..

BUT this has gotten totally and completely off topic from the OP so I'm gonna stop now. I'd be more than happy to pm you if you want. =)


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Wallaby said:


> First part: Are you being sarcastic? I'm not trying to convert anyone if that's what you're saying, you said you didn't understand so I was explaining, no conversion innuendo.


What? 

I said, _*I*_ was not trying to convert anyone. No sarcasm intended.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Ok, I misinterpreted it then. Sorry.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

I usually include '**s' when I'm being sarcastic so one can have no trouble desiphering.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Gillian, that is exactly what I meant. I believe it was Jesus who said somewhere in the bible that wherever two or more people were gathered in his name, he would listen. There are also tons of corrupt churches. So why then must we gather at a church and listen to someone read from the bible to us? Why can't you find god within yourself and worship on your own? 

As far as using church for furthering your religion, I have actually learned more about religion since "leaving" the church. I have learned more than just the passages my church felt was important. Yes, I am exploring other religions as well, but I think that leads to an even deeper understanding of the religion I grew up in. 
A church can be corrupt, a priest, pope, deacon, or rabbi can be corrrupt. They can have other motives because they are a group of humans living with at the very least "origional sin" and make their own mistakes...one thing you can completely learn to trust without worrying about such things is yourself. If God is within each of us, my worship could take place anywhere and I could grow closer to god without ever stepping foot inside a church.

Or at least that is my belief


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## Prairies Dixie Lee (Aug 22, 2009)

*Do animals go to heaven?*



Brighteyes said:


> I've asked this question to lots of people; ministers, friends, family, etc. The vote was tried between them. I was wondering what everyone else thinks?
> 
> For me, the answer is very simple. If it isn't heaven for you without your pet, your pet will go to heaven.


God Forbid that I should Go To Heaven in Which There are no Horses! I think it would be pretty boring.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Spastic, love your post. I have a quick quote I would like to share then I am also going to bow out of this thread.

"Going to church makes you as much a Christian as standing in your garage makes you a car."


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Gillian, that is exactly what I meant. I believe it was Jesus who said somewhere in the bible that wherever two or more people were gathered in his name, he would listen. There are also tons of corrupt churches. So why then must we gather at a church and listen to someone read from the bible to us? Why can't you find god within yourself and worship on your own?
> 
> As far as using church for furthering your religion, I have actually learned more about religion since "leaving" the church. I have learned more than just the passages my church felt was important. Yes, I am exploring other religions as well, but I think that leads to an even deeper understanding of the religion I grew up in.
> A church can be corrupt, a priest, pope, deacon, or rabbi can be corrrupt. They can have other motives because they are a group of humans living with at the very least "origional sin" and make their own mistakes...one thing you can completely learn to trust without worrying about such things is yourself. If God is within each of us, my worship could take place anywhere and I could grow closer to god without ever stepping foot inside a church.
> ...


Sounds like you've been through a lot of nasty ones 

Not ALL of them are that way. MOST aren't.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Sunny06 said:


> Sounds like you've been through a lot of nasty ones
> 
> *Not ALL of them are that way. MOST aren't*.


How do you know this for a fact?


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Please do not turn this thread into a religious debate or it will be closed


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

Ouch. Can we chill a little here? I'm getting a little offended by all of this nonsense. 

Stay on topic for pete's sake. Who knew that was such a freaking hard thing to do.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm not offended and I didn't think anyone has posted anything offensive before. Things have gotten much more heated on riding critique pages before and stayed open. This is a touchy subject but right now I think it's a discussion more than any debate at all. 

Not all churches are that way, not at all. I actually stayed with a church when I was going through some tough times and had nowhere else to spend the night. I'm not even a practicing ANYTHING and they took me in. HOWEVER, I have encountered many who were like that. 

The catholic church is a huge organization. That's great, however that alone causes problems and that is what I was talking about and why I think you can go to church while sitting in your living room. 
The church has now and has always had it's own motives be they positive, negative, or otherwise. There are some amazing people in the church, but there is also politics in the church. 

I have met some VERY negative people who have used the bible to "condemn" me. I have been told the bible was the reason for everything from not achieving a 4.0 to my sexual abuse as a child. Do I blame this on the church as a whole? No, of course not...It is made up of people, not saints. Does it make me want to find my own path with whatever afterlife or God there may be? Yes. I've also met some amazing people in the church. 

I have met plenty of people that go to church multiple times a week and "sin" while not in church. I have met plenty of people who never step foot in a church but love God and follow the commandments. That is where I was coming from with that post/statement. I find nothing at all wrong with the religion, sometimes it's the people who get in the way.

A bit off topic, but I think it all ties in together and I'm learning!


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I'm not offended and I didn't think anyone has posted anything offensive before. Things have gotten much more heated on riding critique pages before and stayed open. This is a touchy subject but right now I think it's a discussion more than any debate at all.


Exactly. Nothing has gotten 'out of hand'. It's almost like it's people's imaginations that are getting the best of themselves and anticipating something to go wrong...


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Tennessee said:


> Ouch. Can we chill a little here? I'm getting a little offended by all of this *nonsense.*


 
What??


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Yeah, I was confused too Sunny...


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## Hobbes (Aug 23, 2009)

This was posted a ways back, and for that I apologize.




> God Forbid that I should Go To Heaven in Which There are no Horses! I think it would be pretty boring.


 
Fair point, would it be heaven without them?


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

^ Yes. I do not think for one second that God will be 'boring'.


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## Beloved Killer (May 23, 2009)

I don't want to get into a big heaven debate here but it's questionable if anyone goes to 'heaven'. How can anyone know until after death?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Spiritual beliefs are so personal to everyone. I, personally, don't really know that I buy into the whole "heaven/God" deal, but I do believe there is an afterlife. I do believe that animals have spirits/souls, so I believe they travel to the afterlife just as humans do.


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## Scrambles (Aug 23, 2009)

Animals In Heaven

For those who are of faith and are interested in what the Bible may say on it.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

If you want to believe that animals go to heaven, then go ahead and believe it. I believe that yes they can go to heaven because no where in the Bible does it say that they don't have souls. At least from what I've read. If anyone has a verse that says they don't please let me know I would like to know if I'm wrong.

Oh, I just realized how harsh that sounds. My bad. I didn't mean for it to sound harsh, it's the only way I could figure out how to word it.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

^ I agree.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

if animals aren't allowed in heaven then i dont want to be there. but from what i've been taught, there's several different interpretations of the passage about whether animals have souls, so its basically up to your interpretation of God. My God has a place for all creatures in his heaven, whether human or not.


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## horsechick139 (Aug 14, 2009)

In the Bible it says that Jesus will be coming back on a white stallion. I think that animals are in heaven.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

*sigh*

You really can't take everything you read in the Bible to extremes. It's in the book of Revelations.The context is wacky. Chock full of symbolism. That's why I made a point to mention Revelations as a book to not take everything literally. 

Here is a good paragraph I found on it:

_The Bible contains many passages with references to many different things all mixed together. One sentence could refer to the first coming of Christ and the next sentence could be refer to his second coming. This is why we are told to rightly divide the Scriptures. The context of the surrounding verses is very important, but the other three horses do not ride out of the first seal; they are clearly separated by being placed into four separate seals. In taking the other seals into account, they are ignoring the symbolism of the first seal, the white horse. The book of Revelation is a symbolic book, to discount the symbolism in favor of anything else, is departing from any chance of understanding the passage. _
_Many commentators, as illustrated above, believe that the rider of the white horse is the Antichrist and that he is on a white horse because he comes with deception and claims to be Christ. READ THIS CAREFULLY. The WORD of God NEVER attempts to deceive us in any way. Satan may portray himself as an angel of light, but the Bible calls him a serpent, a red dragon, and the father of lies. *THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT PORTRAY SATAN AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT, AND THEY DO NOT PORTRAY THE ANTICHRIST RIDING A WHITE HORSE!!*_


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Sunny06 said:


> *sigh*
> 
> You really can't take everything you read in the Bible to extremes. It's in the book of Revelations.The context is wacky. Chock full of symbolism. That's why I made a point to mention Revelations as a book to not take everything literally.


I'm pretty sure that could be applied to most of the bible.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I'm pretty sure that could be applied to most of the bible.


Exactly - any verse in the bible can be taken and "interpreted" to meet the needs of whoever wants to use it, which is why you see the same biblical references used by opposing sides of many arguments. It is all interpretation.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

^ Exactly. Thank you. Although Revelations is notorious.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

That's because even to non-practicing folk, it can be scary with the whole Apocalypse thing lol


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Haha, and the whole 'reigning on the earth for 7 years' and 'horses coming out of heaven' and such... 'Dragon' being satan. Many think that because the Bible says 'dragon' there are such things.. I myself, know it is satan and not a real dragon although I haven't quite decided myself if they are real things or not.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

If you can believe in Satan, they can believe in dragons is how I see it.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

You don't beleive in satan?


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