# Hunter show critique



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I've been working with this horse for about 6 months. This is from the last show of the summer series. He did very well, and progressed so much since the first show of the series.

Feel free to critique me and the horse. If anyone has some tips on how to get him to bend his legs over the fences, it would be appreciated. Thanks!



















This video is from, I think, his third show. I posted it here before, but you can critique this as well.


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## hennisntacanibal (Oct 5, 2011)

Okay, a few things. First I really like this horse and his attitude. He doesn't rush up to a fence nor does he seem reluctant at all.
That being said, I'd really like to see you give him more of a release over the fences. In the photo, there is a slight one, but not enough for the height of the jump he's going over, and in the video (which I know you said was from a while ago) there is basically none at all. This can cause all types of problems, but especially when you get to going over larger fences, a lack of release can actually pull him down while he's going over and cause injury. Also, when you give him his head while he's jumping, then he will be more inclined to flex and give you a nice frame in between. The other thing is your leg. When you are cantering, it wiggles and when you are trotting it is everywhere! The leg should be still, no matter if you are posting or cantering. A good way to build leg strength is posting without stirrups and standing at the trot. You will be amazed at how much better your ride will be without all of those extra unintentional cues you give him every time your leg bumps him.
Good luck with him, he really is a beautiful horse, and fits you very well. Can't wait to see more from you two in the future.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

hennisntacanibal said:


> Okay, a few things. First I really like this horse and his attitude. He doesn't rush up to a fence nor does he seem reluctant at all.
> That being said, I'd really like to see you give him more of a release over the fences. In the photo, there is a slight one, but not enough for the height of the jump he's going over, and in the video (which I know you said was from a while ago) there is basically none at all. This can cause all types of problems, but especially when you get to going over larger fences, a lack of release can actually pull him down while he's going over and cause injury. Also, when you give him his head while he's jumping, then he will be more inclined to flex and give you a nice frame in between. The other thing is your leg. When you are cantering, it wiggles and when you are trotting it is everywhere! The leg should be still, no matter if you are posting or cantering. A good way to build leg strength is posting without stirrups and standing at the trot. You will be amazed at how much better your ride will be without all of those extra unintentional cues you give him every time your leg bumps him.
> Good luck with him, he really is a beautiful horse, and fits you very well. Can't wait to see more from you two in the future.



Thank you. The video is from July I think. And since then I have been working on my release. I did notice I just plant my hand on his withers and just hunch over. He used to take scary long spots, and I was holding him to the jump, and completely forgot about releasing.

He is a really nice horse..he is very willing, he would do a back flip for me, if I asked. But sometimes I forget he is still green. I have to remember he does still need help every step of the way, but he does take care of me if I make a mistake.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

Is he only 3? And for sale?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes and yes.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

May I ask why you are jumping him that height AND showing him too? If he is ONLY 3, he should be doing corss rails, poles and flatwork. He is nowhere nearly mature enough for the stuff you are throwing at him. Even though he is taking the courses well, he is still a BABY. He needs to grow and devlop, what is the hurry to force him to grow up?! And honestly, since he's for sale, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. He's going to have so many soundness issues since he has been jumped so hard so early. You're basically ensuring he's going to have soundness/joint problems down the road. I just don't understand why people have to jump and ruin horses at such a young age. They have 20 years of jumping ahead of them, wait for another year instead of throwing crap like this at him now and making those 20 years, 10.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Actually no, you may not ask. (but too late for that)

And you think I jump every day or something? Because I don't. Once or twice a month if that.

And it's only 2'3" don't act like I'm throwing him at 3ft jumps. 

To each their own right? Just because you wouldn't buy him, doesn't mean no one will.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

Oh yeah cause if you have shown him allllll summer, you've only jumped him once a month right?  

That poor horse is going to have so many problems...good to see more ruined horses thrown into the horrid horse economy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Yeah, there was a show once a month. Except I didn't show in May or August. Why dont you go preach to race horse owners that start training horses to race at 2 years old.

When did I say allll summer? Come on, if I wanted you're lecture I would have asked, but I didn't so back off. Thanks.

It's good to see there are still people not minding their own business.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm sorry for getting super defensive. He isn't my horse, and it's annoying when people act like there way is the best way. You might be right, but I think I'm right. Like a said to each their own.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I've seen what jumping too high, too early can do to a horse, ErikaLynn. I OWNED a horse that had that happen to him. His owners started him over 2-foot fences as a three-year-old. They did the same thing you're doing: showed him over the summer (but with one schooling session during the week in between shows, which were once a month). As a six-year-old (when I started working with him), he had such severe arthritic changes in his hocks that you had to warm him up at a trot for a good 15 minutes before really lunging him. In the winter, you had to warm him up at a walk and trot for almost thirty minutes before really lunging or working him or else he could barely walk afterward. He's now a nine-year-old who is relegated to riding light trails _sometimes_ once a week and his right hock has already fused due to the arthritis, which a vet has confirmed was because he started jumping too early. This was a horse that LOVED jumping. If you had a crossrail set up in the arena, he wanted to go over it, arthritis be damned. 

I'm not trying to preach at you. I'm just trying to show you that even though you may not think you're doing any damage to the horse, chances are that's exactly what you're doing.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I've seen what jumping too high, too early can do to a horse, ErikaLynn. I OWNED a horse that had that happen to him. His owners started him over 2-foot fences as a three-year-old. They did the same thing you're doing: showed him over the summer (but with one schooling session during the week in between shows, which were once a month). As a six-year-old (when I started working with him), he had such severe arthritic changes in his hocks that you had to warm him up at a trot for a good 15 minutes before really lunging him. In the winter, you had to warm him up at a walk and trot for almost thirty minutes before really lunging or working him or else he could barely walk afterward. He's now a nine-year-old who is relegated to riding light trails _sometimes_ once a week and his right hock has already fused due to the arthritis, which a vet has confirmed was because he started jumping too early. This was a horse that LOVED jumping. If you had a crossrail set up in the arena, he wanted to go over it, arthritis be damned.
> 
> I'm not trying to preach at you. I'm just trying to show you that even though you may not think you're doing any damage to the horse, chances are that's exactly what you're doing.


I'm sorry to hear about your horse.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Methinks you either missed the point of what I was trying to get across to you (that your Bo will very well more than likely end up like my Dakota did if you keep pushing him) or you completely ignored it...and I'm really not sure which is worse.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Well...you did ask for a critique. I think everybody believes that this horse is talented. I know that you're looking for riding advice. I agree, also with the previous posts, although since the horse isn't your property there isn't much you CAN do about it. It will have to be for future reference unless you are able to buy him for yourself. I don't have any "this or that killed/damaged my horse" stories. I just know that TB's are bred with shelly feet and they don't have solid Arab legs, though they look that way. I'm sure that the owner is having you show him to get a sale. All of this jumping will tell their toll on his front legs. Ah well, you can take my comments with a shaker of salt, if you wish.
_If I bought him,_ I would want to train him for a long, long career. I'd take him back to working over ground poles and super fine-tune him with groundwork and not seriously jump him again until he got to be about 5yo, and his bones were set. I'd probably set up some semi-permanent cross bars at my gates so that he'd have to jump them (sans rider) coming in from the pasture, and change the small jumps, for interest. I would ride him hours on end at a walk. People forget that a natural extended walk is one of the best ways to muscle up your horse without straining muscles and legs. 
You ride very well.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

Even though the OP does not own this horse, she still thinks what she is doing is okay. She sees no problem in ruining this horse and setting him up for failure, that's what bothers me. If she realized what she is doing is not good for this horse at all, I wouldn't be jumping down her throat about it. But she doesn't, and clearly doesn't want any other opinion than "your horse is so pretty, blah blah blah."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Thank you everyone. I do get what you guys are saying, but what if I just posted the pictures without the video? You would have no clue how old he was. And then it would be OK in your eyes to jump him.

My job is to "train" (I use that word loosely) get people looking at the horse and get them sold. It's a business. I do care about the horse and his well being, but I don't own these horses and everyone is trying to make a buck. That's just how it is...and I have to live with that.

I do it so I can have some ride time...I don't own a horse and can afford to own one. And if it wasn't for this opportunity I would not be riding at all.

I know everyone has an opinion, but I just wanted a riding critique not people telling me how wrong I am, and how I'm ruining this horse and how he's going to be a cripple in a couple years.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

blush said:


> Even though the OP does not own this horse, she still thinks what she is doing is okay. She sees no problem in ruining this horse and setting him up for failure, that's what bothers me. If she realized what she is doing is not good for this horse at all, I wouldn't be jumping down her throat about it. But she doesn't, and clearly doesn't want any other opinion than "your horse is so pretty, blah blah blah."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You have a lot of nerve you really do. If I wanted to hear how pretty this horse was I would have posted this in the picture section. Not the critique section. Duh.


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## blush (Feb 10, 2007)

ErikaLynn said:


> You have a lot of nerve you really do. If I wanted to hear how pretty this horse was I would have posted this in the picture section. Not the critique section. Duh.


Oh really? I have a lot of nerve telling you that YOU said "it's annoying when people act like there way is the best way. You might be right, but I think I'm right." I'm sorry but when the majority of the population agree with me, maybe it's time to re-evalute your "right way". Duh.

And it's funny that you posted this in critique, was perfectly fine with the comment of how lovely he is, how well he jumps, etc, but as soon as I give some negative feedback, you get very defensive. You were expecting everybody to gush over him and say how much potential he has, yet insulted me when I expressed my "not-so-desired" opinion. How mature of you...

And honestly you can tell how immature the horse is in the video. He is not physically mature enough to jump and it shows with his lack of coordination, lack of direction and "yearling look". Even without your 3 year old description, I would guess this horse to not be over 4. He really is a lovely horse and will be extremely cute when he grows up, and that's why I am so angry over the fact he will be ruined before he reaches his full potential. 

But I'm pretty much done arguing with you. I can only hit my head against a brick wall so many times.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Good then we can just agree to disagree. And no one said he was so lovely and had a nice jump. If you look at the picture his jump needs work. His legs are uneven and straight. 

And yeah, you think you're right and I think I am. Who cares? Not everyone is going to agree with you. I wanted a critique of my riding and the horse. Not a lecture on how he is going to be a cripple soon. I'm glad you care so much for people you don't even know. It's sweet. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kcscott85 (Jul 28, 2010)

I just have to say, for the record, that OP- you DID post this in the critique section. So the horse is getting critiqued and there is no reason to be rude. I would suggest you ask for the post to be removed if you are unhappy with the responses you are getting. 

All of us are (obviously) horse people and we all have varied levels of experience in different disciplines. For me, my specialty is eventing. I competed through the Intermediate level and know a thing or two about training horses (since that was the only way I could afford to ride and show- I know exactly what it's like to be in your shoes). We never started jumping a horse before they were 6 years old. Horses are simply not done growing and jumping can damage their joints and cause major problems down the road. Ask any (jumper) vet who specializes in performance horses. And since the barn where I worked/trained at was hell bent on producing quality eventing horses with a long, successful career ahead of them, we adhered to that rule religiously. 

This horse is just not that great and I will attribute it to his age. He is gangly and unbalanced, cannot consistently find his distances, and is sloppy over fences. I do think that with time and some dressage work, he will have potential. 

And yes, I also disagree with horse racing and the way they train their horses as well. Many OTTBs cannot be successful in jumping because of the stress that was put on their joints too early. This is no different.


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## Skutterbotch (Dec 1, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> My job is to "train" .


Sorry, this is absolute crap. Any self respecting trainer, or a smart one at all would know better than to do this to a 2 year old.


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## Serendipitous (May 27, 2011)

He's a very cute horse who seems like he is trying very hard for you.

You've jumped him once or twice a month, I assume full courses to prepare for the show? And he's been to at least three shows, which usually consist of several classes, and possibly more than one day of showing, which is fairly stressful on a horse that hasn't been properly and gradually built up to that degree of work. 



ErikaLynn said:


> And yeah, you think you're right and I think I am. Who cares? Not everyone is going to agree with you.


The difference being that several people have chimed in with views that are similar to Blush's, and I haven't seen one person say, "Oh yes, ErikaLynn. Jumping full 2'3" courses on a 3-year-old on a consistent basis is a great idea (or even just an okay idea)!"



ErikaLynn said:


> Why dont you go preach to race horse owners that start training horses to race at 2 years old.


Because race horse owners aren't posting here asking for critique of their training methods. Your riding_ is _training, so you claim, which you asked for a critique of. Your choice to ride him at this age is part of your method of training.

I will say that you The one thing you _are_ right about is:


ErikaLynn said:


> "...and I have to live with that."


 Good luck.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Ok. I'm sorry for bring a rude brat. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. So say whatever. I'm not trying to persuade anyone into my way of thinking. 

FYI I'm not a trainer. (that's why the word train was in quotes). I ride sale horses get them going get them sold. I don't see it as a problem jumping a 3 year old. That's my opinion. To be blunt, I don't care who thinks it's wrong. Not everyone is going to agree with me. But if everyone agreed with everyone then life would be boring. 

I am sorry for getting defensive. 
I get it. So enough with jumping a 3 year old please. Thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## redape49 (Jul 29, 2011)

The girl only wanted a crit. jesus people.


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## Serendipitous (May 27, 2011)

Why don't you ACTUALLY give her one then, instead of complaining about ours?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

But none of you people really gave me a critique either. I always thought a critique was constructive criticism, then maybe some suggestions on how to get better. All you guys did was gang up on me and attack me and told me how wrong I am and how this horse is ruined. . What you guys did I consider just plain mean. 

I apologized 2 times for being rude and defensive. Still people gang up. That's why this forum sucks. It's like if you don't think how everyone else thinks, you're wrong and then 12 people gang up on you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cupcake (Nov 17, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> But none of you people really gave me a critique either. I always thought a critique was constructive criticism, then maybe some suggestions on how to get better. All you guys did was gang up on me _[...]_


Plenty of critiques and suggestions on how to improve were offered:



hennisntacanibal said:


> Okay, a few things. First I really like this horse and his attitude. He doesn't rush up to a fence nor does he seem reluctant at all.
> That being said, I'd really like to see you give him more of a release over the fences. In the photo, there is a slight one, but not enough for the height of the jump he's going over, and in the video (which I know you said was from a while ago) there is basically none at all. This can cause all types of problems, but especially when you get to going over larger fences, a lack of release can actually pull him down while he's going over and cause injury. Also, when you give him his head while he's jumping, then he will be more inclined to flex and give you a nice frame in between. The other thing is your leg. When you are cantering, it wiggles and when you are trotting it is everywhere! The leg should be still, no matter if you are posting or cantering. A good way to build leg strength is posting without stirrups and standing at the trot. You will be amazed at how much better your ride will be without all of those extra unintentional cues you give him every time your leg bumps him. [...]





Corporal said:


> [...] I'd take him back to working over ground poles and super fine-tune him with groundwork and not seriously jump him again until he got to be about 5yo, and his bones were set. I'd probably set up some semi-permanent cross bars at my gates so that he'd have to jump them (sans rider) coming in from the pasture, and change the small jumps, for interest. I would ride him hours on end at a walk. People forget that a natural extended walk is one of the best ways to muscle up your horse without straining muscles and legs.
> You ride very well.





blush said:


> [...]you can tell how immature the horse is in the video. He is not physically mature enough to jump and it shows with his lack of coordination, lack of direction and "yearling look". Even without your 3 year old description, I would guess this horse to not be over 4. He really is a lovely horse and will be extremely cute when he grows up[...]





kcscott85 said:


> [...]This horse is just not that great and I will attribute it to his age. He is gangly and unbalanced, cannot consistently find his distances, and is sloppy over fences. I do think that with time and some dressage work, he will have potential. [...]


If you do not believe these are critiques and/or suggestions, please explain what disqualifies them from being such.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Enough with telling me how wrong I am...if it's not the horses age, its my reply's to people. Jeez..this forum is really ridiculous.

Along with those reply's are mean comments about how wrong I am, and pretty much saying my way of thinking is stupid. 

All of those reply's focused more on how "stupid" I am for jumping a 3 year old. If what you quoted was all they said in their reply's then I wouldn't be so upset right now.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Can someone please delete this thread.


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## Cupcake (Nov 17, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> Enough with telling me how wrong I am...if it's not the horses age, its my reply's to people. Jeez..this forum is really ridiculous.
> 
> Along with those reply's are mean comments about how wrong I am, and pretty much saying my way of thinking is stupid.
> 
> All of those reply's focused more on how "stupid" I am for jumping a 3 year old. If what you quoted was all they said in their reply's then I wouldn't be so upset right now.


No, I didn't mean to imply that you were an idiot, and I can understand how you would feel you were being attacked by some of the statements (that I purposefully did not quote). 

However, I didn't think it was quite right to disregard the critiques and suggestions that you did get. Even if you don't totally agree with or utilize all the suggestions, people were still taking their time to type them out for you in response to your request for them. That's all!


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

This is upsetting me a lot. Someone called me crap...what the heck? 

I totally understand what you are saying, Cupcake. I appreciated the critique portion of what people are saying. But I don't appreciate being ganged up on.

It was wrong of me to disregard the critiques.


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## Cupcake (Nov 17, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> This is upsetting me a lot. Someone called me crap...what the heck?
> 
> I totally understand what you are saying, Cupcake. I appreciated the critique portion of what people are saying. But I don't appreciate being ganged up on.
> 
> It was wrong of me to disregard the critiques.


Aha, I initially thought you were not counting the critiques and suggestions as such just because they differed from your point of view, but it seems like they just got lost amongst all the other stuff because you were upset. Whoops! Name-calling is unacceptable, and putting people on the defensive is obviously not the best way to get a point across.


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## AislingxXx1234 (Sep 2, 2010)

His tuck will improve with time and lots of grid/polework..I found with my baby (who is all grown up-well almost, she's 5 lol) she really only put the effort in when she needed to. If the fence was under 2'3 or so, she would harldy lift her legs and sometimes just trot it! Same with large pony I have too. People may be mad at the age thing but you seem to be doing it the right way with small fences and not jumping too often. Despite their age, they need to be something especially if they are for sale. I think the two of you will do awesome together for more show seasons to come


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