# How do we look?



## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

*bump*


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, first of all, you have a great attitude about learning and your horse. he's a lovely guy, and looks like an honest fellow and a good match for you.

impressions:

the saddle appears to be pommel high, as if it were a bit narrow in the front. such a kind of uptipped position in the saddle can make a person find a chair seat easier. and, you've got a bit of a chair seat, and your heels are coming up.








not so much like yuou ssee a lot of western riders, where they are pushing into the stirrups out infront of them. in fact, you don't have enough weight going down into your stirrup. Rather , you've got your thigh bone too horizontal, and the lower leg bone too vertical. keep the same angle behind your knee but by openning at the hip (just to either side of your pubic area. not arching your back), you can drop your knee down so the thigh is more vertical, and it will make heel go farther back.

so, you want your heel back more, more under you. you want to think of your foot being flat or the heel down a tiny bit. visualize your feet floating 6 inches above the ground, right next to your horses back feet. the old "if your horse disappeared out from under you, you would be left standing up and would not fall over backward".

the heels up means that you are gripping with your knee. I think in the photo you may have been doing sitting trot. I woudl suggest you do little sitting trot. because I would guess that this horse will slow down and suck back a bit with your sitting trot, becuase you are not yet able to sit in a way that does not dampen his back, and he is already stiff, (your mention of him being heavy on one shoulder is part of that stiffness).

I would do all "suppling" work at walk only, and if you can, maybe drop your stirrups for some of that. work from riding from your core. 
you will find that when you start riding from your core, you will start to feel a lot more when and how the hrose is moving stiffly on one shoulder, and you can help him with small lateral movement from your seatbones, moving him onto the other shoulder before he gets hard onto his stiff one.


this photo shows a decent position, both leg and hand:









you may be pulling a bit with your arm, so remember to use your hand, softly closing or openning to bring him back first. he is bracing a bit against your hand, and lowering a bit as an evasion, possibly. be sure to use minute rewards by openning the hand ever so slightly, after EACH step, even if you rein back 5 steps.


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## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> the saddle appears to be pommel high, as if it were a bit narrow in the front. such a kind of uptipped position in the saddle can make a person find a chair seat easier. and, you've got a bit of a chair seat, and your heels are coming up.


Awww I was hoping I didn't have a chair seat. I do suspect that the saddle is too narrow on the shoulders. Some of his mane has turned white on his withers. I pointed this out to my trainer, because I knew that that was probably a saddle fit issue. He now has a mattiss pad (I'm not sure if that is how you spell it, but it has the fuzzy stuff at the withers) I guess to get the saddle off his shoulders. There are also some foam pads that we put under the back of the saddle that you can see in some of the pictures. Apparently the saddle was tilted back before....


tinyliny said:


> you don't have enough weight going down into your stirrup.


I can agree with that. I can often realize that my heel, my right one especially, comes up. I've been working to fix that and I will try to change my leg position.



tinyliny said:


> I think in the photo you may have been doing sitting trot.


I literally only do sitting trot. I hardly post. I am decent at it I think. Some youtube video said to absorb the bounce with your ankles, but I'm not sure if that is right because my legs seem to move a lot when I do that.



tinyliny said:


> I would do all "suppling" work at walk only


What's your reasoning for that?

Thank you for your critique!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

would you like to see what I think of your Youtube video? seeing a video can tell a lot more than a still photo.

I say abotu doing the suppling work at a walk because you can be more accurate. if the purpose is to get the hrose to unlock a tight shoulder and step right or left, then you will be better able to feel if you have accomplished this or not when you are not concerned about your own seat, but rather quitely sitting and listening solely to the hrose. and, there is not point in trotting around with little or no change in body movment or response to the bit, since doing more work that is not correct only strengthens a bad posture or bad habit.

without knowing how well you ride, I cannot say that you will really be able to "help" him, i.e. change his stiff way of going.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this image of sitting trot shows a style of sitting that I see alot. it's where riders are taugth to lean back and "let the energy flow up throught the pelvis". ok, but what happens is they get the upper body BEHIND the pelvis, and get into a bit of a waterskier position. if they hold the reins tight (which you do NOT), they really start suppressing the horse; by being behind the motion (and I would bet that you are behind the motion) which dampens the hrose's back, and by holding the horse's head with a rigid hand, (which I do not think you do)


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## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

He's not tight/stiff anymore. As I have been working him over the past several months, his trot stride is bigger and his hind legs step under him more. Maybe a bit heavier on one shoulder at first, but once we warm-up there is no difference. 
I do a lot of changing in bend. I'll go on a straight line and go shoulder in to the left to straight to shoulder in to the right. I make sure to change things up so he is not expecting anything. I'll go on a circle and bend from the correct bend to counterbend. I always try to work him evenly 

I do not have a video, but am hoping to get one soon


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## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> this image of sitting trot shows a style of sitting that I see alot. it's where riders are taugth to lean back and "let the energy flow up throught the pelvis".


So how would I work on getting with the motion? 

I was reluctant at first to have a lot of contact. I have soft hands according to my trainer, she even lets me use a mikmar pelham corrective bit on him, but I didn't want to cause him pain through the bit. I was pleased to see at had him closer to the vertical in several pictures, he was even at it in some and never BTV!!!, and his mouth was never open in pain. There have been many times where I feel as if my hands are super light, I never feel like I'm pulling. That makes me really happy

You are being so helpful, thank you!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

your contact is good, and your arm/hand position is good. you can improve by putting your thumb MORE on top, and thinking (imagining) of "pushing " the bit forward. of course you can't push a soft thing like a looping rein forward. but, if the horse , by use of an inviting contact, which I think you are doing, takes up the contact, as he become more confident in it, you can keep a bit more solid and supportive contact without risk of him coming BTV. one thing that helps is when you feel that golden moment when he comes to the bit softly, reward him not by throwing away the contact, but by going forward with a feeling of almost pushing the reins, as if they were sticks, forward with him. if you push too much, you will put a loop in the reins. if you pull, the stick will increas the already perfect contact level. by thinking of the reins as sticks, you will maintain a good following hand, but also one that invites the horse to move his head forward just a bit and move with more energy into a steady contact. 
you actual hand may not move a milimeter, but if you envision your hands as "pushing" forward, more than just holding or pullin (no!), you will be amazed at how your horse interrets that and feels more enlivened into forward impulsion.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

as to the chair seat, you will have to open the hip, let your knee drop. think of going down to your knees to say a prayer. 

do the ol' pull your thigh off of the saddle, outward and let it fall back onto the saddle.

wiggle your legs out of the stirrups, to encourage maximum drop from gravity.

ride one handed with the other on your thigh, or raised above you.

when you put " a leg on", think of your whole leg as transmitting the signal, especially in lateral movements., never jsut a heel coming up into his side


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## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

Oooo very helpful. I will try that. I do sometimes accidentally 'throw the reins away'.

This may be a stupid question, but are you supposed to hold the reins with your pinkies under them? so they are only really held by your index, middle and ring finger? 
I think this is often done with double bridles, but I'm not sure.


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## SaraM (Feb 14, 2014)

I agree with most of the things Tiny has said. 

On the sitting trot, don't lean back so much (and all the time, not just here), think more about letting your shoulders rise slightly with the upward stride of the trot, rather than trying to mash your butt into the saddle. Try to think about keeping your back straight but relaxed. He looks sort of lazy in the trot, so keeping him going with more impulsion would probably help too. Don't worry too much about your ankles moving, its more like you're whole leg moves together to absorb the shock of the movement. This example is really exaggerated because it's a passage, but look at how much Charlotte "moves" without falling behind the movement or pulling on his mouth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcDLLxgWa_Y

Try not to think about shoving your heels down to fix the heels coming up (I did that for a long time showing english pleasure and such); it's more of not pinching with your knees so the weight is naturally in your heels instead of your knees.

In the shoulder in picture, you're twisting your body quite a bit and it looks like you're trying to push him over by throwing your body. A shoulder in is your inside leg pushing him into your _outside rein_; here, you're using the inside to bend him and he's leaning on that outside shoulder. The inside rein is almost not needed for a shoulder in; keep your inside leg at the girth, do not let it slide back! Every stride, at the girth ask him to move over, and close the outside rein to keep his shoulders off the rail. Keep your body upright and tall, when you slouch or lean, lateral work gets really messed up immediately; it's really important that you sit right so he can do it right. To bring his shoulders off the rail, turn your shoulders towards the inside, rather than using the inside rein. 

You guys do look really nice, I think you could easily show training level shows (and probably do pretty well too!)

For your rein question; I do hold mine that way because I'm used to using a double, so when I use one rein, my hands still want to do that. I don't think it matters that much, just don't point your pinkies out like your having tea and no one will probably care.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Cimarron said:


> Oooo very helpful. I will try that. I do sometimes accidentally 'throw the reins away'.
> 
> This may be a stupid question, but are you supposed to hold the reins with your pinkies under them? so they are only really held by your index, middle and ring finger?
> I think this is often done with double bridles, but I'm not sure.


I he we the rein pinched between my pinkie and ring finger entering my hand and between thumb and index exiting my hand. There should be a slight bend to your thumb with active pressure downward on the rein.


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## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

SaraM said:


> He looks sort of lazy in the trot, so keeping him going with more impulsion would probably help too.


He is a little lazy, but is no where near as bad as he was before. Consistent work and lunging peps him up more.



SaraM said:


> In the shoulder in picture, you're twisting your body quite a bit and it looks like you're trying to push him over by throwing your body. A shoulder in is your inside leg pushing him into your _outside rein_; here, you're using the inside to bend him and he's leaning on that outside shoulder. The inside rein is almost not needed for a shoulder in; keep your inside leg at the girth, do not let it slide back! Every stride, at the girth ask him to move over, and close the outside rein to keep his shoulders off the rail.


Thank you for that description. It really makes sense, can't wait to try it tomorrow. So am I kinda faking a shoulder in then, by using my inside rein to create an inside bend? My rationale for putting my leg back is to keep his hindquarters over and I had my outside leg forward to move the shoulders, but I will start putting it at the girth now. So the only real cues for the shoulder in is inside leg at the girth and more contact on the outside rein?



SaraM said:


> You guys do look really nice, I think you could easily show training level shows (and probably do pretty well too!)


Yay I really want to. His owner was the one who took these pictures. I was nervous riding in front of her but she was impressed!! I'm hoping she will maybe let me do a small show or two over the summer.

Thank you so much for your feedback!


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## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

Just an update. I got a lunge lesson today, worked on getting my legs more underneath me. 
Finally did a correct shoulder in using the cues Sara said. It was much better.
Thanks to you both for the help!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

hope you get a show in. I am sure you'll do fine.


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