# Multi-leveled barn?



## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

I remembered seeing an article in some random horse magazine a many years ago about a riding facility in ...um...I THINK it was NYC that was several stories high, and had stalls on one or two levels and an arena on another with ramps connecting them. No turnout, but horses were turned out to run in the arena some and rented out for outdoor trail riding. I would guess if it was NYC to Central Park? 

I may not be remembering correctly, but I wondered if anyone knew about this place, what were/are they called? I thought it was interesting at the time, but now I'm curious about how they keep such a place up and running. I'm thinking it was supposed to be a pretty posh place, and I'd love to find out more about it.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Subscribing!


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

There is one in hong kong heres the link I found with an article and some pictures. pretty neat I guess but doesn't seem very enjoyable for a horse to be living inside 24/7
THW: Hong Kong Racing, Part 1 — Gogirl Racing


----------



## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

thats insane! id love that but the only reason they need to do that is cause they have no land lol


----------



## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

The more I think about a place like this the more questions I have. Buckcherry, the one you posted said they use shredded newspaper for bedding. I have never heard of that in any barn. What do they do with it after it is soiled, I wonder? Some sort of incinerator? Do they have a truck haul it off somewhere daily? Where on earth do they get so much newspaper? I suppose they have something like a freight elevator to bring hay to the upper levels, and the waste down? How do you go about making something structurally sound for that much weight, what kind of flooring do they use, that won't be damaged by urine and manure? What about the one with an arena indoors? What kind of footing? Do they use sprinklers inside the building to keep dust down? 

See? More questions than I will get answers for, I'm afraid. If anybody else has links to this kind of barn, I'd love to see them! I'm just fascinated.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I was wondering the same things.. 
Horses weren't ment to be inside 24/7, but I guess as long as the horses are well cared for and happy who am I to judge
This is supposed to be West side livery stable in NYC.... They do carriage rides...not a nice looking place. they have a video of inside but its a animal rights video and I'm not trying to start that argument lol..


----------



## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

wow that NYC barn is GROSS like holy **** i thought americans were bettet than that when it came to animals


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

As far as newspaper as bedding my old barn did this as they were a non profit theraputic riding school. They had an industrial shredder and people donate the newspaper. 
They spread it in the fields once the wet and manure parts have been removed from the stall.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I believe the NYC stable is now closed. They used to ride through traffic to get to the park & bridle paths. The indoor was small with support posts all over- must have made for some interesting rides.


----------



## DunOverIt (Dec 14, 2010)

That first hong kong set up is amazing! I don't think those track horses mind the set up, either. What a life!


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Interesting question. I would like to see this barn too. Sounds interesting. What a smart way to make something happen on a piece of land not big enough for it to happen easily.




apachiedragon said:


> Buckcherry, the one you posted said they use shredded newspaper for bedding. I have never heard of that in any barn. What do they do with it after it is soiled, I wonder? Some sort of incinerator? Do they have a truck haul it off somewhere daily? Where on earth do they get so much newspaper?


Shredded paper is not all that uncommon. I have heard of people using it before. If you can get it free or cheaply then why not. Paper is just processed wood and it is very absorbent. I am not sure where they would get it but I can imagine it is not that difficult to find if you have the right connections. I am guessing most publishing companies dispose of mass quantities of shredded paper products.
Shredded paper probably breaks down faster than straw or wood chips in a manure pile. Though in an urban setting I am guessing the waste is put in a dumpster and taken to a landfill. This is not uncommon in less rural horse keeping set ups or places that do not allow composting of manure.




apachiedragon said:


> I suppose they have something like a freight elevator to bring hay to the upper levels, and the waste down?


I would say that is a safe assumption. Either an elevator or some conveyor system.




apachiedragon said:


> How do you go about making something structurally sound for that much weight, what kind of flooring do they use, that won't be damaged by urine and manure?


Buildings are designed to hold stranger loads. Structural Engineers make buildings stand up all over the place. I am guessing the live load of a bunch of horses would not be an overly challenging job for them. Think about your average parking ramp garage during a big event. Lots of weight there, moving about.

Not sure about the materials but I am guessing concrete with a finish on it would be best. Horses probably lived on mats. 



apachiedragon said:


> What about the one with an arena indoors? What kind of footing? Do they use sprinklers inside the building to keep dust down?


I am guessing the riding area was layers of appropriate footing (just like any other arena) over concrete. 
Think of any indoor horse show at a commercially owned community type building where other things take place, convention center type building (hockey games, basketball games, circus, ice skating shows, monster trucks, etc). To make those ready for horse shows they simply put specific layers of footing down over the existing floor (which I assume is concrete).

I would guess their need for sprinklers is no more or less than the need for sprinklers in any indoor ring.
It is probably a more practical installation in a building like was described though, since I am guessing the building stays above freezing.



apachiedragon said:


> See? More questions than I will get answers for, I'm afraid.


I do not know if my answers are accurate for the building being asked about, but I tried.




xXEventerXx said:


> wow that NYC barn is GROSS like holy **** i thought americans were bettet than that when it came to animals


Americans, like every other large group, have every extreme of animal care. It is wrong to judge the animal care of an entire country on one set of photographs. Even more so, one set of photographs taken and posted by an extremest group.

I personally do not see anything that horrible in those photos, though. It is the outside of a building and a ramp into a building. 




​


----------



## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Yes, the one originally mentioned in NYC is now closed. I have the issue of HI that has the article. I will find it later.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Oh cool, Sunny. Can you scan in the photos? Not thinking you are allowed to post the article but hopefully you can post the photos or find them on line.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

Yeah the pictures were posted by an extremist animal rights so it's hard to believe what was going on. But if they are closed something must have been wrong...


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Buckcherry said:


> Yeah the pictures were posted by an extremist animal rights so it's hard to believe what was going on. But if they are closed something must have been wrong...


That is an illogical conclusion.

If I leave meat outside and it gets maggots on it does that mean the meat must have had maggots in it?

Maybe the carriage company closed because they were tired of dealing with the red tape that they were burdened with because of the animal rights idiots? Maybe the carriage company closed because Aunt Sue died and no one else wanted to run it? Maybe the carriage company closed because it was not profitable enough anymore because of the increased cost of hay and grain?


----------



## DunOverIt (Dec 14, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> That is an illogical conclusion.
> 
> If I leave meat outside and it gets maggots on it does that mean the meat must have had maggots in it?
> 
> *Maybe the carriage company closed because they were tired of dealing with the red tape that they were burdened with because of the animal rights idiots? * Maybe the carriage company closed because Aunt Sue died and no one else wanted to run it? Maybe the carriage company closed because it was not profitable enough anymore because of the increased cost of hay and grain?


This.

The majority of them actually make things worse for animals in the long run. 

I heard they shut down for a multitude of reasons, most being lack of potential client interest, finances in the community etc.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I didn't mean WRONG in that they were treating the animals badly. I just ment there was a reason obviously.


----------



## DunOverIt (Dec 14, 2010)

Buck, sorry I wasn't directing that at any one person. Just posting what DID happen.. before the ARAs come in...


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Buildings are designed to hold stranger loads. Structural Engineers make buildings stand up all over the place. I am guessing the live load of a bunch of horses would not be an overly challenging job for them.


They could even build a barn with turn out on the roof, grass and all. But I hope it never comes to that; I like my space.


----------



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

^^ Just make sure the fences are good....REALLY good.....


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

NYC doesn't have much land. For their mounted police force's horses, they have to live there, and a mulit-level barn seems like a very innovative idea!


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

As long as the horses are well taken care of I don't see a problem with it. Although I don't think its ideal. I understand not everyone it lucky to live in an area with land.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

What is less than ideal about it, Buck?


----------



## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

The only thing I can think of that is less than ideal is the lack of turnout, but that is often a problem with single level barns as well. As far as the barn itself, I think it's a rather smart idea. I do agree that probably most of what you said is accurate AB, thanks for trying to answer my questions. I'd still love to see some more pictures. I didn't see anything wrong with those NYC livery stables either. That was not the one I was remembering, but all I saw was a building that is probably historical, and needs some dusting and a little paint. How many of our own barn could stand to have the same thing? it could be that we aren't seeing it all, but going by those two pictures, I don't see anything truly bad.

Sunny, did you have any luck finding that article from HI? Or maybe some of you googlers found some more pics?


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I think I may have found it, Apachie. Some interesting articles.

Google is being nice to me today.

Claremont Riding Academy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/nyregion/30claremont.html?_r=1

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/26/nyregion/26stables.html

Putting a Classroom Where Stables Once Stood - NYTimes.com






















































I really liked this one, the signs are interesting.





























If you want more images google Claremont Stables NY


----------



## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Yes, it is Claremont. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Aww, that first article is really sad. The poor guy obviously didn't come to the decision to close lightly, and everyone mad at him.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

> What is less than ideal about it, Buck?


Not ideal for a horse to live inside with out turnout...

Not saying they are mistreating them. But horses were not ment to live inside 24/7 except for when being ridden..


----------



## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Yes AB, that's it! Thanks so much! I hate they had to close it down. I guess that answers my question about how they are able to do it, especially in NYC. I guess they aren't, as hard as they tried. So sad that a place with so much history is just gone.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Many high dollar, upper level show horses live inside 24/7, and are only taken out to train or perform.

I don't consider it an ideal situation, but it's hardly cruel or neglectful. The horse doesn't know any different, and if it's otherwise well cared for and exercised, no turnout isn't exactly a horrendous thing.

Many people own horses in CA and AZ and have them on 1/4 acre dirt lots. There's no turnout there, either. Not everyone has unlimited acres of lush pasture in which to turn out their horses. Should they not be allowed to have any, just because some people think their living conditions aren't sufficient?


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

No, I wasn't saying that its cruel or neglectful just that its not ideal. I realize that some poeple have no other options, and they don't have the pleasure of having land to let their horses out. But if you do have a pasture and don't let them out I see that as kind of Odd but whatever to each their own..


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

But what about fresh air ? Ick !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

Buckcherry said:


> Not ideal for a horse to live inside with out turnout...
> 
> Not saying they are mistreating them. But horses were not ment to live inside 24/7 except for when being ridden..





Buckcherry said:


> No, I wasn't saying that its cruel or neglectful just that its not ideal. I realize that some poeple have no other options, and they don't have the pleasure of having land to let their horses out. But if you do have a pasture and don't let them out I see that as kind of Odd but whatever to each their own..


_My Grandparents have 93 acres.... They have a pasture which includes bush, and 2 paddocks near the barn. They very rarely let the horses out on a regular daily basis, and they definitely have room for it. They aren't expensive show horses, but are the source of my Grandparents income. They just dont want them to do anything stupid and hurt themselves. They are excercised daily, except for maybe odd days during the winter when it is too cold, or too much snow to get out onto the track. _

_The only exception was the broodmares and foals/yearlings, who stayed in the bush all year round. When there wasn't sheep, the band got to stay in the poll barn. The mares even foaled sometimes back in the bush, unless they were known to have trouble foaling, then they would be brought up to the barn for the last few weeks._


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

like I said to each their own..


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> But what about fresh air ? Ick!


What do you mean, 'fresh air'? The barn is hardly air tight, you know. There's fresh air coming in at all times, otherwise the animals would die from carbon monoxide poisoning. 

I agree that keeping an animal in 24/7 isn't what I consider an ideal situation, but the horses aren't being made to stay in poorly lit, cramped, and unsanitary conditions.


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Not the same as being outside though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

> Not the same as being outside though


This 
I agree


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

I don't mind if others want to keep horses like that But I would never have mine at a place like that. Even a dirt paddock is better than being indoor 24/7.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Is there really fresh air in downtown Manhatten anyways? Doubtful...._


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

I would keep my horse there either though !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> I don't mind if others want to keep horses like that But I would never have mine at a place like that. Even a dirt paddock is better than being indoor 24/7.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And this is why it is so nice that there are options out there.

You can keep your horse how you want and they can keep theirs how they want and I get to keep mine how I want. As long as no one steps over a line that makes it cruel and inhumane we are all golden.


I would think just having the ability to ride when you live in NYC is nice.


If you looked at the photos of that stable it was filled with windows. Lots of windows. I am guessing there was plenty of outside air coming in.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Exactly, Velvets.

I don't know why _anyone_ would want to live in NYC, much less make a horse live there, but to each his own.

Nothing against New York City dwellers, but the idea of living in a concrete jungle gives me the flop sweats! I feel the same way about Detroit, Los Angeles and Chicago, too. Ick!


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Never said they couldn't or shouldn't have their horses there....I wouldn't though

We have windows in our barn too, still not the same as being outside.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I have found this article pretty interesting.. Its healthier for a horse to be turned out 
To Stall


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I think almost anyone would agree that for most horses it is best to be turned out.
It is also best for people to not have to sit at desks all day, but we do what we have to do.

Not going to search for it right now, but there was an article in one of the major horse magazines that basically said out is not always best when you are dealing with a horse with respiratory issues. Which is so backwards to what everyone thinks. But when your horses heaves are caused by environmental allergies, sticking them outside only makes them worse.


----------



## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

If I couldn't keep my horse somewhere with turnout I wouldn't have a horse, regardless of how much I loved them. 

Just because the top levels do something doesn't make it right. 

I don't think keeping any animal locked in a box is right, even if the box is clean, airy and nice. 

Each to their own though, I live by my beliefs and others live by theirs.


----------



## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

AB that can definitely be true. I have a friend that lives in southern IN and has an elderly mare with severe heaves. She keeps her stalled all summer long, with a window AC unit installed in the back of her stall, because the mare has a lot if difficulty, not just with the allergens, but also with the humidity. The mare is turned out in the winter only, when the allergens and humidity are at a minimum. 

There is no one size fits all rule for every horse.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

That is a horse that requires special care and needs to be kept inside.. Theres a difference in keeping a horse inside 24/7 because your selfish and want a horse in a place with no land and keeping a horse inside because it has allergies..


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Are the police force who need horses in the city selfish? 

Are people who think outside of the box and find a way to keep a horse in the city selfish? 

They are making the best of a situation that doesn't allow for turnout. From what I have seen, the horses are taken care of to a pretty high standard. I really don't get what the big deal with *this* is when there are show horses across the country that have millions of acres at their disposal and never see the outside of a stall other than to school or to show.


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i wouldnt keep my show horse in a stall 24/7 either !! i dont care how much they are worth, they are horses !


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

And just because you wouldn't keep your horse in doesn't make those that do bad horse owners. They love their horses just as much as you do. Just because someone does something differently doesn't make it wrong or cruel.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

Didn't say wrong or cruel I said I think of it as selfish...


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I really have tried to understand how you can think someone paying good money to make sure their horses are properly cared for is selfish. People in the city that want horses should be able to have them as long as they can afford to. 

I am sure that there are people in the world that think of *all* of us 'horsepeople' as selfish for keeping horses.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

Because horses were not ment to be kept in a stall for 24/7. IF I lived in the city and couldn't keep a horse where it had turn out I wouldn't have a horse its not fair to them. And I have never met a horse who enjoyed being in a stall more than being turnout in a pasture.

And keeping horses in stalls so they won't get injuried is just ridiculous.. 
Didn't say people couldn't have horses if they wanted I just said I didn't agree with it. and you don't have to agree with me


----------



## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

It does seem kind of selfish to me, but in the case of the police force, you gotta do what you gotta do. I don't think we have any right to criticize those who keep their horses in these type of barns so long as the horses are getting proper care and exercise. I agree with corinowalk in the matter that there are hhhuugggeee horse farms with tons of land, yet they chose to keep their horses stalled up constantly until the horses are due for a grooming, to be shoed, farrier, showing, etc. I'd say the horses in the multi-level barn have some up to those big time show horses because at least those in the multi level barns are turned out to in some kinda of arena/dirt paddock. 

I dunno. I mean, it could be a lot worse when you think about it.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Buckcherry said:


> And I have never met a horse who enjoyed being in a stall more than being turnout in a pasture.


Just because you personally have not encountered such a creature does not mean they do not exist. :wink:

They are not that uncommon. Horses that are not used to being outside frequently do not like being outside.


Buck, I think this is a topic we will have to agree to disagree on. No reason to go back and forth with you saying you are right and us giving you examples of why you are not. 

I stand by different is not wrong. You can stand by, 'if it is not my way it is selfish and wrong'.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I used the words, selfish, unfair and ridiculous but I didn't say it was wrong or cruel just so we have that clear..
Obviously we all have different opinions but please don't put words in my mouth..


----------



## MissH (Apr 10, 2010)

Subscribing - lunch is over and this thread is TOTALLY interesting. Need to read it later!


----------



## RitzieAnn (Dec 22, 2010)

Can we say..... off topic??

I was loving the thread on "multi-level barns" can we have it back now?

Closest to a multi level barn I ever had was with a loft. Lol. I love the barn in the movie Babe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

one of the first multistorey stables has to he the Household cavalry Barracks in Hyde Park, London!

The stables are arranged over 2 levels, with copper coils embedded in the concrete of the floors so it can be heated in winter to stop ice forming on the floors!

I know for a fact that the cavalry horses spend at least several months of the year turned out and galloping on the beach on the south west coast!


----------

