# Questions About Western Riding



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am not sure why they start their horses so early. I think that may be a strange remnant from the days out west when horses were many, and cheap. Go through one, get another. Also, Quarter horses may mature sooner than some other breeds. Breeds like Lusitanos aren't even started under saddle until at least 4!

That's a guess, really, and since I am not a trained western rider, I think I shall stop here and let a more knowleadgable person make a better explanation.


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Smrobs needs to be summoned here. 

For the rope halter part: It usually is just a rope halter. I have one that Abby's previous owner rode her in that had loops on the side knots for reins to attach. Otherwise there is a knot you can do to put the leadrope through the lope underneath. I've only seen it after people are done tying it, so I'm not sure how.

It looks like this.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

*My answers in bold*
1. Why are the majority of western horses in shank bits? Why can't you just use a snaffle? From my understanding, most western horses are started with either a rope halter or snaffle.

*Because a snaffle is designed to be ridden on contact. A shanked bit is to be ridden on a loose rein. *
2. When people say that they ride in a rope halter do they mean a bosal/hackamore or a plain rope halter? If it is a plain rope halter, how do you attach the reins? Do you just tie the leadrope?
*I know people english and western that do the first few rides in something like a sidepull or just a plain old rope halter. If I ride in a halter, I use my swivel snap reins and just attach to the halter. *
3. What do you strive for in your riding? I know, that as a dressage rider, I strive for an even gate with impulsion and a even contact on the reins.
*I strive for a soft, comfortable gait that covers ground all done on a loose rein. I also like to have a nice, responsive horse that can collect and extend.* 
4. Why do they tend to start horses earlier? I went to a AQHA sale and all of the horses that sold for any decent money were two to three years old and could neckrein, walk, jog, lope and one man even took the bridle off of his horse (a two year old mare, she was a sweetheart) and steered her by placing his hand on each side of her neck. Of course, I'm more used to horses being started at three the earliest

*I think the trend of starting horses early comes directly from the fact that a lot of western horses have an actual job on a ranch. Time is money and waiting til a horse is 4 years old is wasting a good chunk of both. As a pleasure/trail rider, I wouldn't start a horse til long 2, early 3. No hard work til 4*


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Hmmm. Thank you for your answers. 
I've noticed with most Warmbloods they don't start them under saddle until they are four.
As for the rope halter thing, it has brought up another question.

Why use a rope halter? Why not use a bosal/hackamore? Couldn't riding in a halter cause a horse to think halter=work and perhaps make it difficult to catch them?


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

corinowalk said:


> *My answers in bold*
> 1. Why are the majority of western horses in shank bits? Why can't you just use a snaffle? From my understanding, most western horses are started with either a rope halter or snaffle.
> 
> *Because a snaffle is designed to be ridden on contact. A shanked bit is to be ridden on a loose rein. *


But what about the horses that are taught to neck rein? Shouldn't it not matter what they have in their mouth or on them? My understanding is that when a horse is taught to neck rein they are taught to move off of the rein on their neck.

I'm not trying to question your knowledge. I'm just curious.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Why are high level dressage horses ridden in a double bridle, one part of that being a shanked curb bit? For refinement. The horse needs very little contact on the bit to have it respond. And, it goes with the old days when horses had to be rideable with one hand, so youcould swing a sword with the other.
Most horses just won't be that rapidly responsive on a snaffle one handed.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

A shanked bit is designed for neck reining. You are trying to send the loudest signal with the least amount of contact. The goal would be a horse reacting to the twitch of a pinky. It is difficult to get that kind of reaction on a snaffle bit that was designed for contact. 

Smrobs can explain this much better than I can. *laugh* It really is all about fine tuning. 

As far as the rope halter goes, most trainers would start a horse in a sidepull which is, to me, just a reinforced halter.


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Oh, I see. That makes sense now.

Okay, another question.

What are the basic steps for teaching a horse to neck rein? Just the basics, not too much detail.


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

This was posted in another thread the other day: 




It's pretty simple. I've been working on it with my mare and she's caught on pretty quickly.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

You have already gotten good answers from the other posters but I will go ahead and throw my 2 cents in.

My answers in blue.

1. Why are the majority of western horses in shank bits? Why can't you just use a snaffle? From my understanding, most western horses are started with either a rope halter or snaffle.
Cori had it right, shanked bits are designed so that you can use almost invisible cues with the reins. What you can do with a smidge of pressure on the reins in a snaffle bit, I can do in a curb by only moving my hand a few inches and never tightening the reins. The shanked bits are what allow us western riders to ride on such loose reins and still have good communication.
But what about the horses that are taught to neck rein? Shouldn't it not matter what they have in their mouth or on them? My understanding is that when a horse is taught to neck rein they are taught to move off of the rein on their neck.
Using a shanked bit is about more than just being able to neck rein. It's true that the bit should not be effected at all when you neck rein but if you need to pick the horse up with his mouth for any reason, to either get them back to a level headset or if they begin to get strung out and you need to collect them again, then you can keep your loose reins and only lift your hand an inch or two to get your desired response. With a snaffle, you would likely have to shorten the reins enough to actually make contact with the bit.

2. When people say that they ride in a rope halter do they mean a bosal/hackamore or a plain rope halter? If it is a plain rope halter, how do you attach the reins? Do you just tie the leadrope?
That was an excellent picture example Poseidon, I will just tie the lead rope to the halter when I use one for riding. Most western riders don't use the term bosal unless they are for sure using a rawhide bosal hackamore. A rope halter with a mecate rein set (like Poseidon posted) is also sometimes called a soft hackamore or a loping hackamore.
Why use a rope halter? Why not use a bosal/hackamore? Couldn't riding in a halter cause a horse to think halter=work and perhaps make it difficult to catch them?
Because a rope halter is easy, it's fast, and most people have one handy. A good bosal hackamore will cost well over $200 and unless you know how to properly use one, it's more trouble than it's worth and pretty easy to screw a horse's nose and jaw up with one. Most horses who are actually used for hard work every day begin to associate just being caught with hard work and that is one of the reasons why they get hard to catch. My horses that are easy to catch in the winter get hard to catch in the summer simply because they are used for heavy work on a nearly daily basis.

3. What do you strive for in your riding? I know, that as a dressage rider, I strive for an even gate with impulsion and a even contact on the reins.
I strive for softness, relaxation, a level topline, responsiveness, cadence, and heart all on a loose rein.

4. Why do they tend to start horses earlier? I went to a AQHA sale and all of the horses that sold for any decent money were two to three years old and could neckrein, walk, jog, lope and one man even took the bridle off of his horse (a two year old mare, she was a sweetheart) and steered her by placing his hand on each side of her neck. Of course, I'm more used to horses being started at three the earliest. 
With the AQHA, APHA, and ApHC futurities, horses are started showing at 2 years old. Most breeders to try for foals to be born early in the year (Jan, Feb) so that they are closer to actually being 2 when they are started. A foal that was born in say........July would have to be started under saddle at approximately 18 months in order to be close to show ready for the futurities it's 2 year old year.

That is an excellent video Poseidon. He is showing a quick and easy way to teach neck reining.


----------



## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

how i taught my girl to neck rein was to direct rein, and lay the opposite rein on her neck, and eventually she picked it up and now i don't have to direct rein, just neck rein. and smrobs hit the nail with all the other anwers!


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your answers. 

Okay, just one more question.

What's your favorite Western discipline and why?


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Haha, that's a bit of a difficult question for me. Is ranch work considered a discipline? What I do is basically a combination of roping, trail riding, cutting, reining, pleasure, with the occasional dash of work similar to barrels or poles :lol:.


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Sure, ranch work counts


----------



## ShezaCharmer (Mar 13, 2010)

Barrels and Poles for sure! Who doesn't like a little speed. I also like to throw in a little western pleasure work on another horse at my barn. Oh and trails just to relax once in a while, me and the horse 

Also everyone else hit it dead on on your questions. And before I teach neck reining make sure the horse goes by leg aids pretty well. Otherwise it turns out to be a sloppy mess. This goes for any equine riding sport I guess.


----------



## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Arksly said:


> Let me begin with the fact that I know nothing of western riding. I've ridden a few western horses and even have a western saddle and use it for trail riding but I don't really know much about that part of the equestrian discipline. I just have a few questions for all of the western riders here.
> 
> 1. Why are the majority of western horses in shank bits? Why can't you just use a snaffle? From my understanding, most western horses are started with either a rope halter or snaffle.
> 
> ...


Western horses are started early for many reasons. Mine are all started at the beginning of their 2yo year. As it takes 2-3 years to train a reining horse. The Reining Futurities are at the end of their 3yo year. I have found over the years if you start one early in their 2yo year you can take it slow get a good basics on the horse so when they are ready to move up they are ready.


----------



## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Arksly said:


> But what about the horses that are taught to neck rein? Shouldn't it not matter what they have in their mouth or on them? My understanding is that when a horse is taught to neck rein they are taught to move off of the rein on their neck.
> 
> I'm not trying to question your knowledge. I'm just curious.


The simple reason is that a snaffle does not give the horse the feel needed. Even with neck reining there is more to it then just that. A shanked bit gives very subtle cues needed with a western horse. Along with seat and legs.


----------



## raywonk (Jan 9, 2011)

Ok i biggest thing about why quarter horse are started sooner than warmbloods. quarter horses are ready sooner. Most i should say. Now we have crossed alot of TB in to our breed and some horse are not ready at two. A good trainer will see that and let them stay. 
i strive for the same thing as you do just on a loose rain. My QH can do all of the same things as my sister in laws dressage horse.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Ray, I hate to disagree but I must. All horses grow at the same rate. If by 'ready' you mean their knees and hocks are closed, all horses hit that mark around 2 years old. The trouble really comes in with the back. A horses back isn't "closed" until late 5 early 6. 

Some horses fool us. Take smrobs big boy Rafe. He is a belgian/QH cross and as a yearling, if you didn't know better, you may have just saddled him up. He just looks fully matured. He isn't. 

QH are started early showing just exactly why smrobs (and TB breeders) say. Because the futurities start at 2.


----------



## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> QH are started early showing just exactly why smrobs (and TB breeders) say. Because the futurities start at 2.


Some WP and even HUS futurities are at 2. However mine are started at 2 also and our futurities are not until the end of their 3yo year.

Starting them early makes it easier and better on the horse. They are not pushed as hard or as fast b/c there is more time.


----------



## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

Arksly said:


> Let me begin with the fact that I know nothing of western riding. I've ridden a few western horses and even have a western saddle and use it for trail riding but I don't really know much about that part of the equestrian discipline. I just have a few questions for all of the western riders here.
> 
> 1. Why are the majority of western horses in shank bits? Why can't you just use a snaffle? From my understanding, most western horses are started with either a rope halter or snaffle. *You are able to teach neck reining in a snaffle, but the problem comes with the angles of pull and the level of contact needed. I ride my guy on both a snaffle and shank bit and have found if I want to ride on a looser rein then he holds himself better on the shank then on the snaffle.
> 
> ...


As for what discipline I like the most it would have to be reining


----------

