# Ive been defeated...



## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

You HAVE to get back on her. The biggest mistake you made was getting off after she reared...she won, and she knew it. 

Next time you ride her..lounge her first...then get on. If she rears or misbehaves, just keep riding...I know it's scary, but you cannot let her win again.

Also..in the last picture your hands seem really low...try not to pull down on her mouth when she about to rear. Keep your hands up and keep moving forward...if she's trotting it's harder for her to rear up. 

Another thing..try caring a crop with you and if she's bad..whack her with it. It will snap her out of her "mood" for a minute.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Does her saddle fit really well? 
I would also lunge her first the next time you ride. I'd do lots of transitions, direction changes, and anything else you can think of while lunging her to do to get her focused in on you. I'd lunge her and keep her moving until she would like to stop. ie, when you ask her to stop, she STOPS asap. Then, I'd try riding and just keep going as long as she's putting up a fight. Then, once she's calm, get off an be done for the day so you reward her for good behavior.

Lacey used to be a similar way and it mostly ended up that the saddle I was trying to use on her was much too narrow over her withers. Once I switched saddles to one that was wider and gave more shoulder clearance, her issues mostly disappeared. Of course, many things had become habits so I had to train her out of those behaviors but it wasn't as difficult as it had been when her tack didn't fit. Instead of swimming upstream, it was like swimming down stream with a few rocks in the way. Haha


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

i know it was a huge mistake getting off her, but i was terrified to the point of crying & shaking like a leaf.. i shouldnt have though. i know my hands were low, i was really tense.. i'll try and fix that next time.. 
& i cant carry a crop, im pretty sure she was abused in an old home.. shes really head shy, i cant touch her ears & she jumps at any sudden movements & is scared of crops.. 

her saddle is fine, it's been fitted, & she has a major attitude problem with or without the tack on.. her teeth were done recently too and she doesnt have a harsh bit in so i dont think its that. but shes hardly been ridden for a couple of months, due to the owners lack of time because of her work hours..which is why im now looking after her, until shes sold..


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

KawaiiCharlie said:


> her teeth were done recently too and she doesnt have a harsh bit in so i dont think its that


However in the first photo she has her mouth open. Unless you have the outside rein tight, there has to be a reason she is reacting that way.

Rearing is typically to get away from an issue with the head/face/mouth.


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## rosie1 (Feb 28, 2011)

I don't necissarily think you should get on immediately. First check to make sure there is no pain that is causing her to act this way. If there is nothing physically wrong then your horse has been off for some time and it sounds like she is full of energy and wasn't being respectful right from the start. When I go to mount a horse and they act in the way your horse did I would do groundwork first to ensure that the horse is respecting me and knows that I'm the one in charge. I would suggest doing groundwork and re establishing the rules
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

It seems like she is being more stubborn than scared. If you can't use a crop the main thing you should do to prevent her from rearing is keep going forward.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

i have to say in a situation like this i always look for pain in the horse first.

saddle fit, back soreness, hock issues, leg unsoundness, foot soreness, poll/atlas pain, teeth pain, bit/bridle discomfort - and i mean EVERYTHING.

i've found that MOST of the time a horse acting out under saddle is either due to pain or a learned response originally caused by pain. however - i say most as there are always exceptions.

i say rule out pain first - or thoroughly check to try to find source of pain first - and go from there. good luck!


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

mls said:


> However in the first photo she has her mouth open. Unless you have the outside rein tight, there has to be a reason she is reacting that way.
> 
> Rearing is typically to get away from an issue with the head/face/mouth.


true.. i never actually noticed that. do you think maybe the bit is too high in her mouth or something? or the bridle too tight?




rosie1 said:


> I don't necissarily think you should get on immediately. First check to make sure there is no pain that is causing her to act this way. If there is nothing physically wrong then your horse has been off for some time and it sounds like she is full of energy and wasn't being respectful right from the start. When I go to mount a horse and they act in the way your horse did I would do groundwork first to ensure that the horse is respecting me and knows that I'm the one in charge. I would suggest doing groundwork and re establishing the rules
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


i'll check her tack over again, and she had been lame, but she wasnt yesterday or today & the swelling had completely gone, but maybe she could still be a little sore.. 
& shes not actually my horse, ive just been asked to exercise her until shes sold. 




ErikaLynn said:


> It seems like she is being more stubborn than scared. If you can't use a crop the main thing you should do to prevent her from rearing is keep going forward.


she seems really stressed though, like when shes tied up eating hay, she'll constantly look round at me to check where i am, and the way she eats its like when a horse is scared of something like the vet & you distract them with food & they eat really fast & kind of agressivly.. hard to explain lol 



CJ82Sky said:


> i have to say in a situation like this i always look for pain in the horse first.
> 
> saddle fit, back soreness, hock issues, leg unsoundness, foot soreness, poll/atlas pain, teeth pain, bit/bridle discomfort - and i mean EVERYTHING.
> 
> ...


shes already had her saddle fitted recently, and her teeth done. the bits not harsh at all, its a happy mouth one too. but i'll check everything over again but its not just undersaddle that she acts like it..she'll rear & spin round & stamp her feet while shes tied up etc.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I agree with everyone else about checking for pain. I know how you feel about being scared when on a horse my boy did that to me (as a beginner) it scared me till I cryed (bit embarrassing) in front of my trainer. 
I have since done A LOT of groundwork with him to gain his respect and make sure he understands as many cues as possible from the ground. He also reared when being lunged but hasn't done it in over a month. We have both come to understand each other much better and he is now my most well behaved horse on the ground. I'm yet to get back on him because I'm not experienced enough.


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

apachewhitesox said:


> I agree with everyone else about checking for pain. I know how you feel about being scared when on a horse my boy did that to me (as a beginner) it scared me till I cryed (bit embarrassing) in front of my trainer.
> I have since done A LOT of groundwork with him to gain his respect and make sure he understands as many cues as possible from the ground. He also reared when being lunged but hasn't done it in over a month. We have both come to understand each other much better and he is now my most well behaved horse on the ground. I'm yet to get back on him because I'm not experienced enough.


im not down there tomorrow, but i will check for pain etc on thursday. if i can rule all that out, i'll do some groundwork with her & maybe attempt to get back on..depending on how she is..and how nervous i am. but i have never had a horse make me nervous at all, let alone reduce me to tears of fear..


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Well good luck!! I think you can do it


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

*You were lucky this time. Next time?*



KawaiiCharlie said:


> i know it was a huge mistake getting off her, but i was terrified to the point of crying & shaking like a leaf.. i shouldnt have though. i know my hands were low, i was really tense.. i'll try and fix that next time..
> 
> No, Charlie, the huge mistake was getting ON her. You don't know this horse yet. You should not get on a horse that you know so little about, especially one that already told you that she had problems; she didn't want to lead, she almost reared, she had a hizzy fit the other day when you tied her. Sorry, dear, I think you are a sweetypie, but that is plain foolish to get on at this point.
> 
> ...


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Great post tinyliny!


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## Gizmo (Dec 19, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> KawaiiCharlie said:
> 
> 
> > i know it was a huge mistake getting off her, but i was terrified to the point of crying & shaking like a leaf.. i shouldnt have though. i know my hands were low, i was really tense.. i'll try and fix that next time..
> ...


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

In your original post, you say you were shaking before you even go on. There's your answer. If you're nervous before you get on, you've already lost that day. Sounds like she's just fresh from having the time off. Just take it slowly. Do only what you're comfortable with. If you have to, bring someone in just to get her over the initial back to work hump. Trust your gut. You'll know when you're ready to back up there.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I would say, given her issues on the ground, you've got a lot to work through. She gave you ALOT of clues into how poor of a ride she was going to be long before you got on...(antzy, pawing, nervousness, refusing to stand, etc). 

After getting her thoroughly vetted (if she hasn't already), I would start some serious ground work to re-establish some serious respect for her handlers. If you don't have a rope halter, use a bridle with a simple snaffle bit, so she can't lean on a flat halter. Work on lunging, with lots of transitions, get her bending, and flexing her head and neck, get her to yield her hips and shoulders, etc...with alot of ground work (atleast 30 minutes a day if you can) I am betting you will see a huge difference in a matter of a week or two. If she was a pasture puff for so long, that is your biggest issue here; she doesn't want to work, and she likely has little to no respect for handlers, due to not being worked with for so long. Go back to the basics and you will see some change fairly quickly. 

As far as what you did (getting off and lunging her) I do not think you were wrong in doing this; As long as she was not untacked and brought back to her stall she DID NOT win her spaz attack...she still had to work, regardless of "how" she had to work. I probably would have worked her on the ground even longer than you did, just to really make my point that YOU WILL work, period, no questions asked!!! 

When you do get back on, I am going to ask that you not simply walk her; get her feet moving...the more she has to focus on moving, the less she can focus on bucking, rearing, or kicking out, etc...so get her trotting and cantering, don't just walk!!! Walking is mindless, and enables a horse to 'think' about not having to work...make her work, and make her have a reason to want to stop and stand still.


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## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

If you are just looking after her until she is sold, why not just lunge her? 
You have no stake in this horse, you were not asked to train her, just exersize her, right? Then why risk injury to yourself or the horse?


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## ConnemaraPony (Mar 10, 2011)

you might need to keep trying to ''tame her" or ride her when you show her who's boss she wont do that anymore.


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## BuckskinBorn2Fly (Mar 8, 2011)

ErikaLynn said:


> You HAVE to get back on her. The biggest mistake you made was getting off after she reared...she won, and she knew it.
> 
> Next time you ride her..lounge her first...then get on. If she rears or misbehaves, just keep riding...I know it's scary, but you cannot let her win again.
> 
> ...


That's true, you do need to get back on no matter what. Do you ride with a trainer? I would suggest it with a horse that could be dangerous. Also just try not to be scared, horses sense it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Skipsfirstspike said:


> If you are just looking after her until she is sold, why not just lunge her?
> You have no stake in this horse, you were not asked to train her, just exersize her, right? Then why risk injury to yourself or the horse?


Good advice, if you are comfortable working with hre on the ground then lunge her ir long line her.



BuckskinBorn2Fly said:


> That's true, you do need to get back on no matter what. .


'

Errrr no you don't need to get on no matter what, you don't HAVE to ride and for sure you don't HAVE to ride a horse that isn't yours and that scares you that much.

I see it from a different view, first of all you were scared and you got an and rode her anyway, so that is a victory in my book, I say congratulations for getting on her not once but twice.

I truly think we need to remember that riding should be fun, there are a lot of us that ride even though we are scared, but there is a huge difference between being nervous scared, as I am most of the time,  and being flat out crying and shaking scared. You can work yourself through the jitters, through nerves, through a lot of things, but true terror, then not so easy.

You don't get on with every person that you meet, you aren't going to get on with every horse that you interact with, I've ridden horses that I didn't like, I've ridden horses who I didn't click with, I often ride though I'm scared, BUT I WILL NEVER ride a horse that makes me terrified.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

One question I wanted to ask is: How much training did this mare have before she went lame? Was she a seasoned riding horse or was she green broke? _Has_ she been ridden before? Oh, I guess that was 3 questions:lol:.

In all honesty, I have to agree with Skips. She isn't your horse. Unless you are being _paid_ to fix her issues, then just exercise her on the lunge. There is no sense in risking your health or hers unless that is what you signed up to do.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

KawaiiCharlie said:


> i know it was a huge mistake getting off her, but i was terrified to the point of crying & shaking like a leaf.. i shouldnt have though. i know my hands were low, i was really tense.. i'll try and fix that next time..


I don't think you made a mistake getting off her. It is not ideal but at the end of the day your safety is more important, and as you were feeling like this, you weren't doing any good up there. 
Horses can kill you so I think you were right to listen to your fears. If you were training, then getting off a horse is wrong, but you were worried and your safety comes first. 

For future, I would lead her to the riding area, so you don't have to worry about crossing a road with an unstable horse. Do this with a bridle on rather than a halter, so you have more control. 

Then I would lunge and work from the ground before you even think of getting back on again.


And you are not defeated, you have just reached a stumbling point.


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

shes cute...


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Lots of people here have given good advice. Just want to let you know that your not alone.

About five months ago. My extremely barn sour paint was jigging home. I had a little contact on the bit and WAM, he threw himself over backwards. I mean reared back and jumped into the air backwards. He landed straight onto his back, and by the grace of god I somehow jumped out of the saddle and he didn't land on me. Also we were riding in a riverbed and the sand had to of been a good foot deep leaving both of us unharmed. After making sure both of us were okay (With a thorough unsaddling checking his back) I got back on and rode the rest of the way home (Which was still a good 1.5 miles away and it was getting dark)

Every time I rode on trail after that I cried for a month. I swear I have never been scared by any horse until then, because there was nothing I could do to stop him from throwing himself over so violently like that. I was so scared, every ride I would force myself into the saddle, and to hold myself together enough to try and not give off bad vibes to my horse (Which I doubt he cares about at all, he's oblivious to all that goes on around him)

Its hard there is no way to make it go away, you just can't give up. I thought about retiring Jake after that, but there was so much I wanted to do with him. So I worked through it. It took time...a lot. But I got over it. The fear is still in my mind, where it wasn't before. But it isn't blinding as it was. I can function while still doing what I need to do. 

Keep faith in yourself and keep riding.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Trainer's perspective here: Getting off the horse was not wrong, folks...I'm sorry I see it differently; read her post, she said she got off, and proceeded to work the horse from the ground. Key thing here...horse was not put away, she still had to work, period. 

Now IF she had simply gotten off and untacked and put the horse up, yes, I would say that getting off was a mistake. 

I feel VERY strongly as long as the horse is still having to work, regardless of whether the rider gets off for while to do so, that is what counts. The horse still had to work, so she did not win. Staying on a volatile animal when you don't feel capable of staying with the horse, is what can get you hurt or killed, not getting off and working the horse from the ground. The horse still has to work, so he is not winning the battle. And both horse and rider are safer sometimes that way as well. Getting thrown and getting hurt and NOT being able to get back on later, OR work from the ground is by far much worse.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Sorry to get a little harsh here guys but this girl has received some advice on here that could get her freaking killed. A horse that is full on rearing, obviously upset isn't a horse that ANYONE needs to be riding. Telling this girl to put her big her undies on and get back on is very very silly. 

Pride doesn't break but bones do. If you are not required to ride this horse, I would not. It sounds as if she has given you a good fright and you have every right to protect your safety. Lunge the mare, do ground work with her, keep her moving and get her in shape. Get to know her a little bit better before you go trying to convince her to do anything under saddle.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Staying on a horse that has you overmounted and scared is pure folly. She did the right thing getting off. Better to get off than get dead when the horse flips on her.

This horses needs started over from the ground up to gain some respect and manners with a rider who wont accept any crap from her either. I truely dont believe this is pain. 

As someone else once pointedout very aptly....a truely trained horse (think black beauty or rent a horse stables where lame horses still ride all day and sore backed horses still ride every day) will go and go till it just cant go anymore pain or not. It is lack of training and respect and refusal to go forward. Are you able and qualified to do that? If not, walk away. There is no shame knowing when you are overhorsed and walking away from a situation that is too much for your skill level at that moment.

JMO.


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

scratch this, it was my fault she reared. 
i spoke to her owner, and she said she only responds to seat and voice commands, not hands & kicking. im used to riding strong horses that lean on the bit, so im kinda heavy with my hands. when i got on she went to walk, so i pulled her back and she responded by rearing. i got back on her today, after lunging her & doing alot of ground work, and used my seat instead of my hands, shes an absolute angel & i really like her. i admit, i was nervous getting back on her, i was shaking a little and at first i only got on and sat on her, then got back off because i didnt think i could do it. but i made myself get back on again, and rode her round for about 20 minutes just in the paddock. shes amazing.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's wonderful that you were able to figure that out. Good job!! Now that you know what she needs, she'll help to make you into a better rider. Also, great job having the courage to get back on her today.


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

smrobs said:


> One question I wanted to ask is: How much training did this mare have before she went lame? Was she a seasoned riding horse or was she green broke? _Has_ she been ridden before? Oh, I guess that was 3 questions:lol:.
> 
> In all honesty, I have to agree with Skips. She isn't your horse. Unless you are being _paid_ to fix her issues, then just exercise her on the lunge. There is no sense in risking your health or hers unless that is what you signed up to do.


its all sorted now, it was my fault she reared but anyway. 
Lily used to be a show jumper, but for the past few years has just been used for breeding, and general riding. her owner at the moment is actually a novice, and shes never had a problem with her.


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## KawaiiCharlie (Nov 17, 2010)

smrobs said:


> That's wonderful that you were able to figure that out. Good job!! Now that you know what she needs, she'll help to make you into a better rider. Also, great job having the courage to get back on her today.


thank you  i was actually surprised at how responsive she is to my seat, she went straight from trot to stand at one point, guess i used a little too much seat lol


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## Brittmilt (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm glad that you've figured out what the problem was and that you got back on even when you were scared. When I first got Quinn, my Appaloosa, I had to show him that I wasn't afraid and that I was the boss. After that he was a complete sweetie to everyone.


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