# Opinions on Riding a 2yr old?



## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

I was just curious on what everyone's opinion was on riding 2 year olds. I have nothing against those who do, I just personally think they shouldn't be ridden till they're 3 at least. 

What do y'all think? I know you can start them but I just think they aren't mentally ready.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Depends what you mean by riding. A light rider doing 15 min a few times a week, or a walk down a trail with some friends? There's bigger thing to worry about. 

A 2yr old in a full training program, ridden every day for 30+ min doing things at speed or tight turns, I take more issue with.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

I personally think that a horse should be ideally four years old, and very minimum three years old, before being started under saddle, for them to be physically and mentally ready.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

I've only broken in one horse but we started with the saddle as a yearling, then I'd hop on at then end of her two year old and be ponied around. By three she was walking and trotting on trail rides. At four she started regular work


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

With my gelding, the only young horse I've ever ridden, I sat on him for the first time at 2 years old. He shot up and got very tall at 2 (often mistaken for a 4 year old), I was 12 and small ish, and the fastest I could get him going was a walk. So we worked on steering and giving to the bit and a lot of leg yielding.

Turns out he was much easier to get to a trot or gallop in a LARGE arena and I finally started riding him a bit harder the next year. And what I mean by harder is, head over to the neighbors arena, walk, trot, and gallop a couple times each direction, practice going over and up to obstacles and going home. I also took him to two 4-H 2-Hand shows.

By 4 he was working almost as much as my regular 4-H horse. He went to 3 2-Hand shows in the summer, and in the fall went to the County Fair and the State 2-Hand show. He also attended his first year at 4-H horse camp.

5 years old I was using him for 2-Hand and regular 4-H and pretty much doubled his work.

Geeze, here's my history, and take it for what it's worth... I'm no pro, but I do agree, no hard work till 3 or 4, but I also think it depends on the horse.

I will say it seems a lot of horses are started and showing around here at 2, so I'm a little out of the norm.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

It greatly depends on the horse. 

Some are not ready at 2 years old; others are just fine. I think it is important to listen to the horse. As far as physically, I think the riding should be relatively light at least until age 4 (late) or age 5.

My Shotgun has always been very quiet and easy going. I started him when he was 2. I put about 30 days on him (light rides, about 15 to 20 minutes a pop) and then left him alone for the winter. Rode him all throughout his 3-year-old year, lightly, working on basics and just getting him more broke. He got hauled along everywhere we went (good exposure for him). Started him on the barrels when he was 4 and just took it at his own pace, but he just continued to take everything in stride.

He got the year off last year since I had a baby. I'm excited to get going on him again this year (he's now 6) as he will be one of those horses that I can go win a barrel race on, and then turn him over to let my daughter ride him (when she's big enough). 

He's one of those rare finds!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

is there a rush?


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> is there a rush?


I have learnt that with human nature it is often the case. I'm guilty of this as well when I get ideas.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think it depends on the breed and the horse. My coming three year old has 90 days under saddle but he has been on rest since. I've done ground work and been on his back a few times but he won't go back for another 90 days until the spring.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I personally think that it should wait until later than two, four preferably. Horses are started sooner than four but it takes a lot of careful consideration of their growth when doing that. Personally, I'm waiting with my baby. I want her to be almost finished growing before I ask her to carry me. I feel like I can find plenty of things to do with her before I start riding her. Her mother grew another inch between the ages of 5 1/2 and 6 1/2.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I will add though, I prefer 3-4 to start mine.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm quite heavy and I still rode Trouble at two. Actually, he had his first ride ever on his second birthday. The way I ride, I don't see any problem with it. Walking around working on steering and going for short trail rides isn't going to hurt him. However, I don't agree with putting two year olds through rigorous training. Trouble is three and still isn't mentally ready for any hard work. 

Although this year (he'll be 3 1/2) I plan to put 50 miles on him, on the trail. This will be mostly walking/trotting and letting him experience life on the trail. So mostly mental work.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

My colt won't have a human on him until 4yrs or even 5yrs old. I'm in absolutely no rush. I have his older cousin to ride until then anyway. =)


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I don't particularly care for a time frame, I do futurity but I also don't push for it if the horse isn't ready. I agree that every horse is an individual.

However, I do start everything at two, bottom line. Even if they're the slowest, most mentally immature creatures in the world - Even if I have to spend the first month just getting them to figure out how not to trip over their own feet - And even if they're the rankest, meanest colt in the bunch.

As far as I'm concerned, the sooner they start learning, the easier life they will have. If I was killed in a car accident tomorrow, I would hate to have my family suddenly have to sell a bunch of unstarted two year olds. The more work I have into them, the better their chances of having a good life if something happened, or after they are sold.

If I have to wait four years to ride everything, then it's going to take me another year of riding to get them to their peak, and another year at least after that to get them started in a career. After that, you have another year of seasoning. So I have a seven year old horse who is still incredibly inexperienced, and the value decreases. When the value of a horse decreases, not only am I losing money, but I'm also increasing the risk that someone comes along to buy the horse who is looking for a quick turnover, or isn't a good home, or will not be able to feed the horse after a year. People who have the money to have good horses, don't buy them cheap. If someone can afford a valuable animal, usually they have the money to take care of it.

So if I start my horse at two, ride it for a year, it's already a solid citizen by the time it's three. So at three, you can start turning them towards a career, or seasoning them. So instead of a finished seven year old, you have a finished five year old. The value of that horse goes up. His chances of a happy life dramatically increase.

I want to be a part of my horses life from the time they are born so that starting them is not an issue. When they are babies, I will hold them, rub them, drag them out on the trail with me or tie them up at shows. I do everything I can to make my horses as valuable and seasoned as possible, because to me, that is how you keep horses from being neglected, abused, or sold to the wrong hands. By making them the best you can.

I keep all my flunks though. I have a horse who I loathe in my barn right now and have put thousands of hours of work into. She's a flunk in literally every way. Can't run barrels for anything. Can't cut a cow. Doesn't have any stop in her, and if you ask her to turnaround she'd just as soon throw herself on the ground in tantrum. Can't rope on her either, she's too small and regardless, she's terrified of the rope. I started three of her sisters and they all went on to be somebody's horse, all really good hearted creatures. She, however, is not one of them. I couldn't sell her because I have this feeling somebody would dump her at the nearest auction yard after spending a month with her. Unfortunate reality, but still, three years into riding her every day I am still trying to make her a horse I'm proud of. It's just not happening, and her value goes down every day she ages.

I will probably have her until she dies at this point, but I knew this early on in her career so I was able to accommodate that, and I can take my time making her into something. Maybe someday her "person" will come for her, but I haven't found one yet. The good news is, now she's so broke at six, I can turn her out all winter and she'll be the same when I get her out in spring - Because I've done my job and prepared her to be that horse, even if she was incredibly difficult. If I had "Turned her out to mature" at two instead of starting her, she'd be half as far along, and if she finally succeeded in killing me she'd most definitely be dog food.

That's just me though. I go out every day to do my job and at least take one baby step towards getting that horse broke. I don't believe in wasting time, but I don't believe in rushing either.


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## ThoroughbredBug (Jan 18, 2017)

Personally, I would be comfortable doing saddling and long line work at w/t around 3, maybe getting the horse used to a saddle or surcingle and a bridle (and optional bit) around age 2.5 depending on their mental status. Start backing and sitting on, and being led or lunged with a rider on around 3-3.5 years. Doing this work maybe 2 or 3 times a week for 15 minutes. By 4, rider is guiding the horse at a walk trot and canter 3 times a week, for around 30 minutes each time. Use the next year + to do basics: Relaxation, rhythm, impulsion, straightness and connection, in that order (similar to the "dressage scale" or "scale of training") and to build the horse up to working every other day for 35-45 minutes. I wouldn't do more than ground poles at that age. Can start light jumps, higher speed, tighter turns, stops, etc by age 5 or 5.5, assuming the horse is growing properly and mentally ready. One can also start riding close to daily for even an hour if going out on trails or doing light work, again, assuming the horse is ready and fit.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

ThoroughbredBug said:


> Personally, I would be comfortable doing saddling and long line work at w/t around 3, maybe getting the horse used to a saddle or surcingle and a bridle (and optional bit) around age 2.5 depending on their mental status. Start backing and sitting on, and being led or lunged with a rider on around 3-3.5 years. Doing this work maybe 2 or 3 times a week for 15 minutes. By 4, rider is guiding the horse at a walk trot and canter 3 times a week, for around 30 minutes each time. Use the next year + to do basics: Relaxation, rhythm, impulsion, straightness and connection, in that order (similar to the "dressage scale" or "scale of training") and to build the horse up to working every other day for 35-45 minutes. I wouldn't do more than ground poles at that age. Can start light jumps, higher speed, tighter turns, stops, etc by age 5 or 5.5, assuming the horse is growing properly and mentally ready. One can also start riding close to daily for even an hour if going out on trails or doing light work, again, assuming the horse is ready and fit.


I know it depends on the horse but why do you wait so long to introduce the saddle and bridle? I threw the saddle on Trouble when he was ten months old, as part of my groundwork, as well as all my other tack.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

There are going to be many opinions. There are also cultural norms, and economic drivers which have shaped some of those norms. And then there are incontrovertible facts (not many, but they're significant). 

Economic drivers: professionals have to earn a living, and they don't earn any money from bringing expensive young investments along gently and giving them lots of time to fully develop. All that time they are pouring feed and care into them and their owners are breathing down their necks and they still have to pay the mortgage. They can't think about how sound that horse could be at fifteen, or twenty-five, or thirty-five. They need to push those youngsters as fast as they can, get them winning money, making a name for themselves. This is true in many disciplines. 

Cultural norms: if pros are starting at two and running their horses at three and four, why shouldn't you? Why would you do something different than a famous winning professional for pity's sake?

Facts: Horse growth plates start to close, beginning at the farthest extremities, at about 18 months, and finish closing with the vertebral plates, at between five and eight years. That's right, some eight year olds still have open spinal growth plates. Smaller, shorter, and female horses' plates close somewhat earlier than larger and male horses. 

this .pdf is a classic article which begins with a discussion of the changes in TB racing (to the detriment of the horses) and ends with a discussion of 'Ranger', a young TWH, in an in-depth discussion of why growth plate closure matters.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I personally would wait until they're at least 3/4, but it really does depend on the horse individually. Just have to be super careful, if you do want to start them that early.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

There are a lot of great points in everyone's opinion. 

Saddling and lounging are part of preparing a horse mentally so I have no problem with that. But I've seen people ride their 2 year olds really hard and it didn't seem right since they're still developing, but every horse is different. 

Also, I heard you should never gallop and arabian till their 4 or jump a horse till they're 4 since their knees aren't fully developed. Is that true?


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Well, I only weigh 110lbs and have for my whole life so have started all of the young colts and fillies in the summer of their 2nd year. Lightweight English saddle and no more than 15-20 minutes at a time. Never have seen a single one have leg issues because of it.


In the real world, most of the horse people in my area don't really think about the issue. I've seen them "send them off" to a trainer at a young 2 years old and expect miracles in 30 days! And most of the futurity trainers I know unfortunately, really push hard both for their own "winning" reputation and to keep their clients happy.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

It really depends on the industry. For myself, I have a 3.5 year old filly I'm starting. Granted, I am in no hurry, so I haven't started riding her yet. However, she has had the saddle on and we've done lots of ground work. We've been lunging her with the surcingle to work on bit contact, as well as ground driving. She is also growing...I'll go out to the paddock and her butt will have shot up in the air. So I'm not really interested in working her until she evens out a bit anyway. 

I don't have any super lofty goals for her. Mostly a pleasure horse - see how she goes and maybe dabble in some dressage and do a few shows later on.

When she was two, she did have the saddle on and we had started working on the basics of lunging (no bit).


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

It's not true that "every horse is different" in the sense that all horse have growth plates, all horses' plates close in a specific order, and there is not all that much variation. 

It appears that if you are hoping to develop a horse who has the best chance of being a healthy sound using horse through its natural life, a great deal of attention would need to be paid to how much strain you are putting on that young horse. How much weight, how long, how fast, how abrupt or strenuous the movements, all of that. Medically speaking, it would seem no horse should not be asked for a lot of exertion before the age of five or six, six being better than five. 

That's not the norm, but science has been changing norms of horse handling for awhile now. And it usually takes a long time, especially when money is at stake.

But "when to start riding hard" is not the same question as "when to start training". There are a zillion things you can teach a horse without riding it at all.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^I was under the impression that there was quite a bit of difference (not in sequence, but in the timeline) between different "types" (draft vs light vs pony etcetc) of horses? I didn't read the pdf, but is there literature on that included?

Though it should be one of the driving factors, anatomy isn't the only factor to consider when starting a horse, in my opinion. I do think there are a number of things that depend greatly on the individual (what they'll be used for, their mind, how the trainer/owner designs the program, etc). 

Ultimately, I agree almost wholly with beau.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I would also like to know why working horses is different vs. humans and dogs and other animals whose growth plates also need time to close. 

I am of the opinion that the more I introduce them to work in their level of fitness, the stronger they will become. Just as humans, if you spent your whole life confined in your room until you were fully grown and then thrown out into the world - You'd probably have a hard time given that you have zero muscle tone or cardio.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I believe that it is important to work with youngsters...every time you interact with them you are essentially 'training' them. I do not believe in pushing young horses and working them hard though. Case in point is all the broken down horses you see that come off the track. Even in a barn where the owner erred on the side of caution when having his youngsters trained, we still had numerous injuries and breakdowns. If those horses weren't being worked, I can guarantee that they would not have had those injuries. 

It's all a matter of perspective. Yes, I think that exercise is important in developing young horses (in addition to humans, etc). However, most young horses get the necessary exercise they need just romping around in the fields (if they are given the room to run & play). Same with kids - that is why they have gym class. However, there is a different between a child running around having fun and asking that same child to start weight lifting.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Exercise while bones are still developing is important for proper strength. The bones will remodel to become denser under increased loads. The concern arises with the risk of damaging the epiphysis. If that is damaged you end up with growth ******ation. That can be damaged through excessive concussion, torque, or trauma. There is the same concern with human youth athletes. 

Studies on racehorses have shown that their bones will remodel to lay down more bone on the left side of their long bones, the direction they race in. Other studies of various breeds have shown that all horse breeds will close within a range of 6 months of each other on average.


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## ThoroughbredBug (Jan 18, 2017)

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> I know it depends on the horse but why do you wait so long to introduce the saddle and bridle? I threw the saddle on Trouble when he was ten months old, as part of my groundwork, as well as all my other tack.


Mainly difficulty in fitting. Most 10 month old horses are awkwardly built, and you certainly don't want their first experience with a saddle to be uncomfortable. Also where I live it's ideal to let the horse be a horse and not do much handling other than leading and some round pen stuff until the horse is maybe 1 or so. Some people even just put the weanling out to pasture until they are three. Obviously get them used to halters, leading, round pen, blankets, etc as soon as they will understand a session on using these things. I believe haltering asap is great, as it prepares the horse for a bridle and to be guided by the head. Halters are also incredibly easy to adjust, saddles: not so much. Not everyone has the money to buy an arsenal of saddles to have enough to fit a baby in drastically different stages.  Obviously if your horse needs more time to adjust to new things it's beneficial to start early with tack so that they have plenty of time to figure it out and be comfortable. My post was simply a generic version of how I would do it, and I'm completely unopposed to switching it up, it would just be difficult to include all the variables, you know? I'd end up with a mile of text lol


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

SorrelHorse said:


> I would also like to know why working horses is different vs. humans and dogs and other animals whose growth plates also need time to close.
> 
> I am of the opinion that the more I introduce them to work in their level of fitness, the stronger they will become. Just as humans, if you spent your whole life confined in your room until you were fully grown and then thrown out into the world - You'd probably have a hard time given that you have zero muscle tone or cardio.


It isn't all that different, is the answer. In Dog Agility, for example, most trainers will not start teaching any jumping or fast turns until the dog is over a year old, because of growth plate closure concerns. Longer for larger dogs. You can start teaching them the Agility moves and obstacles as soon as you like, but you don't stress those bones. You cannot enter a dog in an Agility trial if they are under 18 months of age. Because of growth plate concerns.

One significant difference between horses and other animals is that you are sitting right on the place which is the last area to mature in the whole skeleton. And, being ridden is not something horses evolved structurally to do -- dogs don't carry weight on their backs, and also, are at liberty when exerting themselves, which is a big advantage. 

Heaven forbid putting a young horse in a box until they're six years old -- that horse would be ruined. For example, my horse, through no exertion or intelligence on my part because I didn't own her, was raised in a steep 35 acre pasture with other horses, until she was four. She got her hoof trims and her vaccines and was taught how to lead, tie, trailer, and be groomed, and that's all. More certainly could have been done, but it wasn't. She stayed in fair shape because she had to keep walking, and often, climbing, to feed herself (no supplemental feed nor hay, only grazing). She learned how to handle herself over rugged ground, and she learned how to be a horse in a herd -- life lessons which I appreciate being ingrained in her on every trail ride. She was backed as a long four year old, and the trainer remarked several times how she wished all the young horses she was given to start were of the age and had the background of my horse.

I can't speak to the human side of things, maybe someone else can.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The young horse's that suffer problems are those that spend most of their life in a stall - usually because they're considered to be too valuable to risk turn out in case they injure themselves
A young horse that's outside in a decent sized field even if its just during the day is going to get all of the load bearing exercise it needs for good muscle and bone development. Half an hour or an hour of light work riding is going to do very little to improve that but carrying the weight of a rider and saddle before its skeletal structure growth is complete could have a very negative impact in later years
Our foals were handled from birth but only enough to have them compliant with everything that might be needed - leading, good manners when handled, shots, worming, grooming. The one's we showed 'in hand' were trained to load on a trailer and wear a bridle with a bit when they were older(UK showing) but no saddles on anything or lungeing and no bridles if they didn't show until they were broke. Nothing ever objected to having a saddle on for the first time so putting one on as a yearling wouldn't have speeded up the process at all


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

ApuetsoT said:


> Exercise while bones are still developing is important for proper strength. The bones will remodel to become denser under increased loads. The concern arises with the risk of damaging the epiphysis. If that is damaged you end up with growth ******ation. That can be damaged through excessive concussion, torque, or trauma. There is the same concern with human youth athletes.
> 
> Studies on racehorses have shown that their bones will remodel to lay down more bone on the left side of their long bones, the direction they race in. Other studies of various breeds have shown that all horse breeds will close within a range of 6 months of each other on average.


This. And also because exercise affects the tendons/ligaments/muscles and bone which adapt to use. This is also why I'm really big for turnout and hacking performance horses. One it's better for them mentally but it also allows their structures adapt to being in use. I think it's one of the worst things you can do is keep a horse in a stall 24/7, especially young ones. They're meant to move! I also wish I was still in Oregon because I used to take my horse on trail rides weekly when I was there, where I am not its a lot harder because it's a bit of a drive and I lack a trailer. But I also feel it's better to start some horses at 3 or 4 depending on their mentality and their how mature they are. Training isn't just training the body, it's also training the mind.

I didn't break my 3yr old until she was 3 and a half and we took about 6wks to break her because we take it slow. Conditioning mentally and physically takes time. I've had other horses we didnt break until 4 or 5. The 5yr old was meant to be broke at 4 but breaking him was a VERY long process and a bit on and off (he was really quirky) and in some ways we wished we started him at 3 instead of 4 because some horses when they've developed bigger and stronger are a lot harder to break because they're mentally less inclined to accept direction and are a little more confident in their ways if that makes sense? It's not true for all but some. But at the time we felt he was too small and weenie to break at 3 and also because he was a late baby (August). And winter is really not the best time for breaking babies, if you can help it :lol:

Also for a 3yr old program it's relatively light and simple. I ride my mare for maybe 20-30min 3 times a week. I'd like to go on more hacks with her but the weather has not been that agreeable. Plus when we hack her out, I need my trainer to go with me and we walk the fields side by side. I'm hoping to do a trail ride sometime in Spring and also take her to another barn for 2wks-month for exposure to new places. We also gave her quite a bit time following being broke and doing one day in a clinic (it was mostly walk and a shorter session). 

ATM my (when I say "my" on these ones, I don't own them, I ride them) 4yr old I was riding has been sold so I don't have him going but he was broke as a 3yr old. And the two 5yr olds are going and work according to what they say they need. I ride them about 3-4 times a week and not for terribly long. Quality over quantity. Sometimes I'll ride for 15min because the objectives for the day were met and the horse had a good attitude and good responses. Other days will be more demanding. Sometimes it'll be like an intense ride at the walk and when I say intense, I mean mentally demanding and teaching the horse basic principles and mechanics and then be done or it'll be more of a drawn out, lots of walk and some transitions because it's more about introducing a concept or idea and training a reaction than pushing them to go around and around. To me there is no point to just go around and around. But other days we push boundaries mentally and physically and then follow up with a light, easy day. It's never push-push-push-shove-shove-shove, I think it causes horses to shut down that way. They have to enjoy their work and have fun that's number 1! The mind is just as important as the body for training. And for me I want all of my babies to be just as happy to work today as they are at 20 years of age.

The point is variety and gradual conditioning and training good mechanics. Everyday is not the same and they're not worked for the same period of time. Sometimes rides are more physically or mentally demanding and then the following ride is more confident building, light and sweet, it just depends on the day and the horse. 

I'm not in favor of breaking 2yr olds, I feel like they're still too weenie but I also wont get nasty towards someone who does because I've seen people who broke their horses at 2yrs old and did the western stuff but the horses were still fine and going when they were older. So while I wouldn't break a horse at 2, I recognize it's not my decision.

But I also am STRONGLY in favor of working with babies from the time they're born on up. After being apart of raising babies and doing all the aftercare of being born and working with babies on up to breaking, it makes a HUGE difference if they've been properly handled or not. They need to learn respect from the get go and I think a firm but patient/understanding hand is absolutely necessary. You cannot allow bad habits to form because it lays the framework for the rest of that horses life. In taking a baby a person takes on a serious responsibility.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

SorrelHorse said:


> I would also like to know why working horses is different vs. humans and dogs and other animals whose growth plates also need time to close.


Agreed.


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

Oh man this question again. Few older threads I found on it so you can read more opinions if you want.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/what-age-do-you-like-start-10027/

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/okay-lunge-my-2-year-7-a-724913/

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/handeling-breaking-2-%BD-year-old-686282/

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/riding-2-year-old-99290/

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/riding-2yr-old-3907/


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I think it is really important to distinguish between training (mental) and working (physical). 

Training is something that ideally should happen every time you interact with the horse, right? There is no reason not to teach a young horse everything it is capable of absorbing. Driving, liberty work, ponying, trailering to new places . . . all of those things can move a young horse along in his/her education in how to be obedient, trusting, soft, curious, steady. Training is always about teaching, in the moment, what the horse is ready to learn. No matter what the age. The only issue is riding a horse too soon, too hard. And there is science about that.


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

evilamc said:


> Oh man this question again. Few older threads I found on it so you can read more opinions if you want.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/what-age-do-you-like-start-10027/
> 
> ...


I was just curious on what everyone thought.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

beau159 said:


> Agreed.


SorrelHorse's question has already been covered


Basically dogs and children aren't expected to carry a weight (sometimes quite a heavy one) on their spines


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Agree very much with @Avna.


> I think it is really important to distinguish between training (mental) and working (physical).
> 
> Training is something that ideally should happen every time you interact with the horse, right? There is no reason not to teach a young horse everything it is capable of absorbing.


Also agree that turnout is extremely important for young, growing horses. One of the most forgotten parts of development is the digital cushions in the hooves. This type of fibro-cartilage requires movement and the pressure during growth to develop in size and density. Horses that are kept stalled while developing do not build up dense and hard digital cushions, and this affects them for the rest of their life. The ability to grow and change cartilage deteriorates as horses get older, even when effort is made to build a healthy hoof later in life. 

An acquaintance bought a horse that was stalled for the first six years of his life. She started riding him in an arena and gradually got him into shape. She brought him to the beach for a ride, started cantering on the sand and he broke his femur. 

Everything I've read supports that free exercise and movement is critical for growing horses, and enforced demanding exercise is detrimental for growing horses (and dogs). 
Humans develop much more slowly and the answer is less clear. It is controversial with many young kids racing in half marathons and marathons. It can be argued with our modern obesity problems that the potential for minor musculoskeletal or hormonal issues are outweighed by the benefits of avoiding deadly diseases that are caused by sedentary lifestyles and obesity.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> SorrelHorse's question has already been covered
> 
> 
> Basically dogs and children aren't expected to carry a weight (sometimes quite a heavy one) on their spines


I did not see any research shared about the effect of weight on a horse's spine at a young age. 


Children often carry heavy backpacks to and from school, at a young age.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

beau159 said:


> I did not see any research shared about the effect of weight on a horse's spine at a young age.
> 
> 
> Children often carry heavy backpacks to and from school, at a young age.


 I would have thought that the fact that the spine isn't finished fusing until its approx. 6 years old is sufficient to tell you that riding a 2 year old isn't probably a great idea.
Children don't carry backpacks slung off their spine - if they did they'd have to go to school on 'all fours' though I did have to walk a mile to the bus stop every day to go to school with one of those heavy backpacks and I often wonder if that's why I now have so much trouble with shoulder pains


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Heavy school backpacks have been a cause for concern for quite some time. They cause all kinds of muscle strains in children -- neck, shoulders, spine. They cause headaches, cut off circulation in the arms, all sorts of things. They are not benign.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

beau159 said:


> I did not see any research shared about the effect of weight on a horse's spine at a young age.


You're right, and there are probably a few reasons why this would be hard to come by. Most likely, because these effects, if/when they occur, are long term, various, and develop over the life of the horse. It is hard to get funding for longitudinal studies like this, as to be statistically useful there would have a large cohort of young horses all started, say, at 18 months and ridden hard, with another group of the same breeding and conformation started at, say, 4 years and ridden gently, and follow all of them through to at least age 10 or 12. Who would pay for such a study? 

The people who care the most about the long term soundness of their horses are mostly pleasure and trail riders who hope for a lifetime riding companion. There is no monied, organized horse industry group which has a vested interest in getting hard data about the long-term effects of early starting. It's quite the opposite, even -- the money lies in starting horses as early as possible. We all know that nothing suppresses the truth like it being inconvenient to earning a living.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I often just wonder how long I have to bubble wrap my horses to avoid being told I'm a horrible abusive horse mom for riding them at two.

I don't argue that growth plates aren't closed, I'm just saying that I'd rather start my horse and get them going in life then wait and wait and risk more problems, or something happening. 

Noting also that the type of horse I have is bred specifically to be started quickly and moving along. I do think there is something to be said about strong work ethics, conformation and genetics. Your everyday backyard horse who takes six years to reach full height and width isn't going to be as structurally sound as these guys below, who were two at this photo, and full grown by three - Maybe four in the roan's case, and bred to be balanced a lot more naturally than say, an arab or a gangly warmblood. 

The reason is simple, horses who did not mature quickly mentally and physically were not bred because they couldn't handle the work and took too long to prove themselves, so therefore there was less reason to breed them.

I've said this about a hundred times on this forum too,but there's a "don't be stupid" clause built into this. Yeah you should probably not take your two year old, jump on, whip and spur and kick and run it into the ground. You shouldn't ride it until it's foaming sweat and put it away wet. But this goes for all horses, not just colts. For me, I ride until just before they will be uncomfortable. Enough to stimulate strengthening of the muscles so they get more fit, but not enough to cause any real stress. It is not hard to avoid doing damage, you just have to possess a lick of common sense. I understand how that may be hard for some people and so thus caution on the forum is understandable, but I am the realistic and practical voice in this situation so I will provide advocacy for the practice here.

A typical ride for my two year olds is not dissimilar to a ride for my elder horses, except I have to remove some things they won't know how to do yet and add them as they learn. I warm up all my horses by walking five laps each way, trotting five laps each way, and then on colts I usually get them loping circles each way until they are relaxed. Sometimes that's two laps, sometimes it's ten. Depends on the colt. At that time we will break back down to the walk, do some suppleing exercises, or if the colt has a particular job ahead of him (i.e. barrel racing or cutting), we will end the ride doing something related to that. I.e., ten minutes on the mechanical cow, or some walking/trotting through the barrel pattern. If he's going to be a trail horse, we will immediately leave and go for a short trail ride out into the back forty.

This allows the muscles to really warm up and cool down. Similarly, I do constant body work myself, so it is easy for me to see muscle tension and any other discomfort as soon as it arises. Their legs get cooled off and they get fed excellent supplements. Only the best. Again, I believe it is my responsibility to give the horses the best chance at life and the best possible training they can receive. So therefore, this is how I do that. The fact that my horses keep selling and they keep sending me things to start and train tells me that I must be doing at least something right. 

Here's a few photos of some fit two year olds after about 30 days riding each.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

daystar88 said:


> I was just curious on what everyone's opinion was on riding 2 year olds. I have nothing against those who do, I just personally think they shouldn't be ridden till they're 3 at least.
> 
> What do y'all think? I know you can start them but I just think they aren't mentally ready.


It really has to do with their physical development more than their mental development..
Their body "matures" from the foot up. "Rule of thumb" is that it takes 6 months longer for a colt/stallion to develop than a mare (being gelded supposedly shorted the time some for males). Size is believed to also have some effect (adding months for larger animals).

Of course, as the owner you are at complete liberty to do what you like regardless of physical development, but here's the approximate baseline for the development of a typical horse at the lower end (quickest time frame)

It takes 2.5 - 3 years for the joints of their legs (foot to scapula) to finish developing.
5 years (add months for stallions) for the back to finish developing.
5.5 - 6 years for base of the neck (the last joints to finish developing).

You will find people working horses under saddle much earlier than that. TB's are being raced before they reach 24 months (the jockey club gives all TB the same birthday...1 Jan so many, if not most, of the "2 year olds" you see racing are not actually 24 months old). Of course we can look at the number of OTTB's with joint issues and see the problem with starting them too early. Doesn't seem to stop anyone though and I know MANY people who start horses under saddle at 2 and 3 years of age. I've turned down training horses for people, because they wanted to be able to ride their 2 to 4 year old, but they easily find someone else and that's fine since it's not me. I'm fine with going ground work, getting them use to being saddle, etc... while they are younger, but personally, I start working them with my 165lbs on their back until 54+ months and even then I just spend 10-15 minutes working them from the saddle. At 60 months is when the longer work starts (I haven't trained a stallion in years). I don't ride filly's or colts (they're mares and stallions at 4) Consequently most of the horses I train are older (usually 6-8) and had just been "pets", pasture ornaments, herd mates for company, etc... that someone finally wanted to start riding, or were purchased by someone who wanted to ride them.

When I get approached about training someone's horse (I get approached at the dardest places sometimes) my first question (not my only question ) is the horse's age. If it's young then my second question is are they willing to wait while I just do ground work and teach them (the owner) while we wait horse to finish developing before being ridden. If I get the right answer then I'll train the horse. If not, I don't need the work and I'm not going to do it. 

I'd rather just be riding mine anyway.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> I would have thought that the fact that the spine isn't finished fusing until its approx. 6 years old is sufficient to tell you that riding a 2 year old isn't probably a great idea.


Once again, we get back to the discussion that some exercise and fitness can be beneficial and show a strengthening effect. 

Mild light work on a growing horse's back could very well _help_ strengthen it. Is a light 20 minute ride truly going to hurt the horse? Or could it actually help the horse by making them more fit?




avna said:


> You're right, and there are probably a few reasons why this would be hard to come by. Most likely, because these effects, if/when they occur, are long term, various, and develop over the life of the horse. It is hard to get funding for longitudinal studies like this, as to be statistically useful there would have a large cohort of young horses all started, say, at 18 months and ridden hard, with another group of the same breeding and conformation started at, say, 4 years and ridden gently, and follow all of them through to at least age 10 or 12. Who would pay for such a study?


I believe there are studies regarding bone remodeling that has been mentioned earlier in this thread. Yes, I agree that such a study on the spine would indeed be difficult, but I don't think it's fair to make claims (either way) when the research simply has not been done.



avna said:


> The *people who care the most about the long term soundness of their horses* are mostly pleasure and trail riders who hope for a lifetime riding companion.


I think you are sorely mistaken with this statement.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

beau159 said:


> I think you are sorely mistaken with this statement.


I wasn't meaning to insult anyone. I was just saying that the people who have influence, money, and organization -- who might get get studies and grants concerning the effects of a specific training regimen -- are more or less the same people who make better money off starting horses young. Not that anyone sets out to shorten the working life of a horse, but that by and large it is the younger horses which concern professional trainers. Most of those early-started horses, including the ones pushed very hard to win at a very young age, like futurity horses, racing TBs and the like -- are going to be out of the hands of those trainers when they are middle aged and older. Or they have been retired to breeding farms and whether they are riding sound or not doesn't come up.

Large-scale long term studies generally only are done when finding out the answer could mean a significant boost in the overall profitability of an industry. Or pure science is being pursued by some researcher with a bee in their bonnet and a very generous benefactor. The fact that there are no long-term studies doesn't mean that young horses should be started later -- or shouldn't be. There's no data hence no hard and fast conclusions can be made about that particular facet (spinal growth plate closure). But there are other indications that appear to show that later is probably better.


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