# Mane shedding?!



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

He could be rubbing it out but excessive selenium in the diet can cause dramatic mane and tail loss - and damage to the hoof as well
Maybe something in the products you're using is irritating his skin


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## skippatuffson (Dec 25, 2011)

How's your worming program? Use Safeguard and a week later Equimax(whole tube) then Ivermectin every month for about 4 months. Then rotate for a couple of months and back to Equimax. I worm monthly during spring and summer and then every other month late fall through the winter. Mane and Tail detangler is good and a coat polish with a little water in a spray bottle and brush in or hands on tail. Wash it and leave some conditioner in.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

That type of worming program is really frowned upon now - its one of the major causes of resistance to wormers that's become a very real problem.
I would also not recommend using any conditioners or detanglers that contain silicone because they form a coating on the hair that takes away its natural ability to stay healthy


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

I think I'll try some Eqyss products. And for worming I do fecal tests and base worming off of that. He also is getting diatomaceous earth which is a natural wormer among the hundred other benefits of it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

DE is not a wormer at all. It stops working the moment it gets wet and your horses body is full of fluids so it will be ineffective the minute it gets in the mouth.
Its mostly fine sand (silica) and finely ground shells - would you feed your horse sand?
We use Sandclear regularly to prevent the build up of fine soil particles in the digestive system that the horses ingest naturally as they graze which can't be avoided so I would not feed them the stuff
It has its uses in gardening as long as its dry - but that's all. 

The Eqyss products are good for reducing static, nice for conditioning as natural and will repel some bugs but if your horse maybe has mites it won't kill them


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Exotic, try rubbing petroleum jelly on the underside of the horse's tail and at the top of the dock. If the underside is itchy (bug bites, mosquitoes especially) horses rub their tails trying to get relief. Use it in the base of the mane. Replenish every third or fourth day.


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

Concerning the diatomaceous earth, I suggest to everyone to research yourself on the product and ask your vet. For every bad review/comment on the product I find at least 3 or more positive reviews for human and horse consumption. Just the other day my horse was eating dirt out in the pasture and randomly licks dirt from time to time and his diet is tops according to tests I have had my vet do. But everyone has their own opinion and I appreciate other's thoughts, so thanks for commenting anyways.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I have researched it and also used it in my garden though I found that it was killing bees as well so stopped buying it.
Quote from this link that otherwise expounds on its virtues 
Diatomaceous Earth (food grade): Bug Killer You Can Eat!
_One strange thing about diatomaceous earth is that for it to work on killing bugs, you have to keep it dry. Even morning dew can make diatomaceous earth ineffective_

And from this rather more scientific one
Diatomaceous Earth General Fact Sheet
QUOTE:
_It remains effective as long as it is kept dry and undisturbed._

If your horse is frequently licking soil then its possible there's a mineral deficiency in his diet
I would address that - because its a potential for picking up parasites and in the UK they're finding a link between grass sickness that's now believed to be caused by a form of botulism poisoning and horses grazed on sparse pastures when they are ingesting soil when they graze


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

I use Red Lake Diatomaceous Earth which is food grade. It is processed different than dia used for filtering, etc. There are also various kinds and the process is the most important part.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

If this were my horse and I felt the mane shedding was above and beyond what is normal, even for this time of year when horses are shedding, I would be calling my vet.

If you feel your vet isn't willing to be much help with this particular issue, find another vet, or take him to the nearest equine university, if that is possible.

The itching of the tail and the excessive loss of mane hair could be related in ways you and many horse horse owners don't think about. We naturally make false assumptions, until the vet examines the horse and draws viles of blood for testing:shock:

Sometimes when they itch enough to rub the hair off the tail dock, they don't have bug itchies, they have something going on inside. Since they can't talk, the next best thing is try to eliminate the problem by rubbing and we humans make the wrong assumption, as to why they "itch".

And wouldn't it be something, if that diatomaceous earth you're feeding your horse, has finally decided to outwardly give symptoms that it might not be so good for the horse after all. 

Just sayin' you need to examine everything that affects your horse. everything you feed, hay and pasture quality tested for mineral imbalance, to how old he is, as things change inside horses as they grow older.

People change internally as they get older, so do horses. I have taken six horses from youth to the geriatric stage. Two are still with me at ages 20 and 21. Three of the other four made it to somewhere between 27 & 29 before cancer or some form of tumors in the hind gut got them. I saw some really weird changes and metamorphosis in each of them.

Call the vet, schedule an in-depth physical that includes blood work, and stop thinking your food grade diatomaceous earth is the greatest thing since Timothy hay. In the end, it might be BUT, until I know what is wrong with my horse, I look at everything as "guilty" until test results tell me otherwise.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When I recommended trying petroleum jelly, it's a very inexpensive first line of defense to try. It that fails to resolve the issue, then other options need to be looked at.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

what kind of horse is it? My curly mare sheds a good portion of her mane and tail each year.


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

My horse is a 1/2 andalusian, 1/4 arabian, 1/4 hanoverian. I've been giving DE for only about 2 weeks now, but thank you for the advice everyone. I've thought of having a vet do something, but didn't want to jump the gun or seem paranoid about something that seemed so small. He does his tail every summer so I think that should be checked out I guess. Will need to save up some money for that!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

DE contains selenium and because its got no 'guaranteed analysis' you could be overloading your horse with that mineral and horses have a very fine line where toxic amounts of it are concerned 
One side effect of that is loss of mane and tail hair
Chaffee-Park County Extension
It just amazes me how people will feed horses something without even knowing what's in it - sorry Exotic - but its not wise horse management to do that
And all the claims on various websites of the benefits of human eating silica are ridiculous
Silica, the main 'ingredient in DE can't be absorbed into the digestive system so it isn't toxic but its not beneficial either - the rest of what's in it are just random trace minerals with no definite amounts or types
Trust in real science and research not snake oil salesmen


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## HorsesDoFly (May 23, 2015)

Better get him checked for selenium poisoning.


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

His mane shedding was starting before I started feeding it to him, but I'll take him off it to see if anything happens. The hard thing I have with the bad reviews on DE is that I haven't found one that says they personally had a bad experience with it. Like they were suffering or their animal was suffering majorly. I've read tons of reviews that are positive, so where do those come from? I'm asking the equine vets around me what they think but I haven't gotten anything back yet. I have had my horse tested for his levels earlier this year and they said he was great in numbers. Some slight changes needed but nothing that needed concern.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

DE does contain minerals - nothing else beneficial in it at all so maybe the horses fed on it were deficient.
If you look at a horses problems they often lead back to a mineral or vitamin deficiency but the wise thing to do is to figure out which ones and then use a supplement with a guaranteed analysis of those things without a load of others they might not need
Vit A deficiency is common in the winter months or in horses fed mostly on hay and that will lead to all sorts of immune system troubles including skin irritations
To go back to the DE - this is from this site
Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth vs. Pool Grade Diatomaceous Earth
QUOTE:
*What is the difference between food and feed grade diatomaceous earth?*
_Although these two types are very similar there is one very important distinction between them. Food Grade DE must meet certain specifications regarding heavy metal content. To be considered Food Grade, the Diatomaceous Earth must not contain more than 10mg/kg of arsenic and no more than 10mg/kg of lead._

Now I don't know about anyone else but I wouldn't want to be eating anything on a regular basis or feeding it to my horse if it contained lead or arsenic even at those low amounts

These sites will try to tell you that silicon dioxide (the type of silica in DE) is good for you and will do all sorts of magical stuff - but its inert. They use it in supplements as part of the manufacturing process because it can't be digested or absorbed - essentially 'it does nothing at all' though in large enough amounts could cause kidney stones
What Is Silicon Dioxide in Supplements? | LIVESTRONG.COM


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

I got a few replies from some vets and nutrionalists around here and just wanted to share their thoughts.
"Thank you for submitting a question to the Answer Exchange on Equinews.com. Kathleen Crandell, Ph.D., a nutritionist with Kentucky Equine Research answered your question. 
Your question: I've been seeing a lot of talk coming up on diatomaceous earth. A local feed store sells Red Lake Diatomaceous Earth, and it seems like a safe and profitable thing to feed horses. Before I start feeding it to my horse, I wanted to ask an equine expert what their take is on feeding it to horses.


Dr. Crandell's answer: Diatomaceous earth is a fine white powder that consists of billions of microscopic plant skeletons of diatoms, which are very high in amorphous silicon dioxide. The powder is used in a surprising number of products, but with horses it is mostly known as a natural dewormer. It can be used as a dusting powder for external parasites as well. Only the food-grade form of diatomaceous earth should be used for any application with horses. 


These tiny skeletons are thought to be sharp enough to wound parasites and cause them to desiccate but not sharp enough to do any type of damage to the digestive tract or the resident bacteria. The effectiveness of diatomaceous earth as a dewormer appears to be inconsistent with a high degree of individual variation, and can be easily checked by doing fecal egg counts. It is pretty much indigestible so very little of the silica will be utilized by the body, which makes it virtually nontoxic (as long as it is the food-grade form). 


Perhaps the most interesting use of diatomaceous earth has to do with its ability to attract toxins, pathogens, and pollutants in the digestive tract and carry them out of the body. Diatomaceous earth is an interesting additive to a horse's diet that has not been well researched in the horse so far but merits a closer look."


Wisconsin Equine - 
" Most horse owners feed diatomaceous earth as a natural dewormer. I do not have any experience with this product for any other use. Most often diatomaceous earth is not as effective as products such as ivermectin or is completely ineffective as a dewormer. The website below has some good information if you would like to try using diatomaceous earth as part of your deworming program. The most important advice I can pass along regarding diatomaceous earth is to make sure to use the food grade product because the other forms of DE are toxic. As with any change to your deworming program, I would recommend doing a fecal egg count before you use DE and then again 30 days following the use of DE to make sure it is effective. You ideally would like to see a 90% + reduction if fecal egg count to regard the product as effective. Thank you for your question and interest. 
http://equinenutritionnerd.com/2014/04/24/diatomaceous-earth/

Cheers,
Dr. Paige Gann "


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I would personally not seek advice from a Vet or a nutritionist on anything like DE as neither are really qualified to answer unless they've studied and researched the product and had access to independent trials
Both totally missed the fact that it's useless as a 'natural' insecticide when damp/wet which is something any gardener will tell you because it ability to kill is mostly down to the fact that its a desiccant.
If you keep your horse in an 'isolated' situation (that is not exposed to other horses that you have no control over especially a constantly changing herd) and you worm twice a year to cover for all the types of internal parasites then your fecal count will come out low or negative without using DE
Don't forget that tapeworm, Bots in the larvae stage and encysted worms won't show up on a fecal count


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

Are you a certified person to be able to a professional on this situation though? They work with lots of things on a daily basis and keep up on new things, how stuff is working in horses, etc.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I am not but fortunately for me my DH is a Global Head of Research and frequently gets asked about things like DE because it comes under his field of expertise. Because he knows from trials done on it as an insecticide that it becomes ineffective when wet its not something he would even waste time spending money on doing research trials.
I have found results of several credible University trials that were done on its use as a wormer - they were not good.
DE: is it an effective natural anthelmintic? A review of the literature


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Looks to me like the vet graciously said it was ineffective.

Red Lake DE is currently only registered as a feed additive per their page.

FAQ

Here is the mineral analysis of another brand. I can't find one for Red Lake's little patch of grit.

Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth ( DE ) Powder - 8 oz.

It's going to vary depending on the mineral content of the water at the time the little creatures died.

Red lake DE is kind of a red brown, at least the stuff I see leaking onto the floor at tractor supply is. Means to me there is a bit of iron in it. The white and gray stuff I'm more familiar with is about 2% iron oxide. Red Lake probably has a little more.

Exotic also has another post about constant thrush. Between the DE and what ever is naturally in the soil and feed I'd be suspecting iron overload or some other mineral overload. Doesn't take much selenium to do freaky things.

Iron Overload in Horses | The Naturally Healthy Horse

Got Iron? | EasyCare


Chaffee-Park County Extension

Selenium: A Balancing Act | TheHorse.com

Plenty of selenium in DE, add feed or hay with a lot and you could be overdosing.

Selenium in Counties of the Conterminous States

Parts of Wisconsin are showing high selenium in the soils. Therefore any hay or grain grown in that area is going to have elevated levels.

Not picking on anybody. Just adding what has been presented up.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Ok I take it back about the thrush post. It was another kid whose user name begins with E. Barely keep my own kids straight and I only have one.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

SueNH said:


> Ok I take it back about the thrush post. It was another kid whose user name begins with E. Barely keep my own kids straight and I only have one.


I usually start with the first name that comes into my head (which might not necessarily be a human) and then work through until I get the right one
What is scary is that I recall my Grandmother doing exactly the same thing
Sorry off track


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Me too Jaydee. I remember getting made at my grandmother because she would go through my mother and aunts first before she got to mine. Then my mother started doing it, I only have one sister.

Now I do it and I see my daughter roll her eyes. Her turn will come and I will snicker.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

my mare normaly sheds chunks oof her mane out but its so think its not noticable. untill this year. i ran my hand though her mane and a HUGE chunk of her mane came out (about a little under 1inch of now bold spot). she is not rubbing and her tail is not shedding. so i feel your pain. She is on a normal worming scedual and eating bermuda pellets and safe choice senior (with molasis since my fiance grabed the wrong one). i gave her a good bath and slathered coconut oil on her mane and the bold spot. hopefuly that helps.


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