# dandelions



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

*MOD NOTE: *

*This thread was copied from an existing thread. Original discussion was left in the Horse pictures section: **http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/apollo-field-dandelions-192498/#post2512290*

*Discussion subject is regarding the toxicity of dandelions and horses.*


***************************************************************************************************


Im not tryin to be rude- but you know dandilions are toxic to horses right?


His weight is good. He needs more muscles but will gain that with more rides.. handsom guy!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

perhaps you are thinking of buttercups.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> perhaps you are thinking of buttercups.



i was reading about how flatweed and dandelion filled pastures were known to cause austrailan stringhalt.. not to be confused with 'regular' stringhalt.


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

Our field is full of dandelions. All different kinds of horses are on it all summer. Different breed, sizes, ages, even new foal and broodmares. Never heard about them being toxic or had a problem.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Just shows you are never to old to larn, dandelions are toxic to horses:shock:

I have been so lucky for the last 40 years.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

*Spring De-Tox*

*Dandelion & Nettles in the Horse Diet*

*The Dandelion ~ Taraxacum officinalis* comes into flower in Spring, bringing forth flowers from April to November. The dandelion is a storehouse of minerals especially iron, copper and potash. Copper being especially important as an activator of zinc in the body. Zinc being necessary for wound healing, fertility and white blood cell production. Dandelion also contains more vitamin A & C than most other vegetables and fruit.
Traditionally in Spring, the young leaves have been used in salads to stimulate and cleanse the digestive system, the blood and the kidneys. The leaves have a proven reputation in relieving fluid retention whether due to heart oedema or an excess of sodium and therefore can help to relieve high blood pressure. The high iron content of both leaves and root helps to combat anaemia. The root is used as a liver remedy especially useful in relieving bilious disorders.
Encourage the dandelion to flourish in your pastures; it is non-poisonous and entirely beneficial. A few leaves shredded into a mash feed can only improve your horse’s health.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> *Spring De-Tox*
> 
> *Dandelion & Nettles in the Horse Diet*
> 
> ...





> Taraxacum officinale Dandelion When infected with a toxic mold that grows on it, the plant has been linked to outbreaks of Australian stringhalt.


If i could copy from my pdf file id paste where it says that grazing on a pasture full of castor, flatweed, and dandelion- horses will show symptoms of 'goose stepping' called 'Australia stringhold'


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well I'll take my years of in the flesh experience over your PDF file I'm afraid.

I am not closed minded to new things, but honestly I don't think I have ever had pastures without dandelions, so on this occasion I'm not going to rein them in :wink:

Oh and further research (a couple of random clicks of my mouse)


> * With summer upon us we must be mindful of the likely occurrence of Australian Stringhalt (AS) which occurs in horses grazing drier pastures with poorer soil types and weeds. *
> 
> 
> Horses severely affected with Stringhalt walk with exaggerated flexion of the hind limbs, often contacting the belly and moving forward with a peculiar bunny hopping gait.
> ...


Also Illinois is a long way from Aussie land


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> Well I'll take my years of in the flesh experience over your PDF file I'm afraid.
> 
> I am not closed minded to new things, but honestly I don't think I have ever had pastures without dandelions, so on this occasion I'm not going to rein them in :wink:
> 
> ...



Lol, dandelion is a flatweed! Its not the actual plant its the mold that grows in the 'flatweed' plants that is toxic and especially in large numbers.. if flatweed is growing in your pastures the soil is not doing well.. the pdf file was only so i could show the actual study of how it causes AS. 

Dandelions and other flatweeds grow here too and there are cases of australian stringhalt here in US! I believe that site is a bit outdated.. 


Ask your veterinarian- make sure hes not a french model, lol. :wink:




> Australian stringhalt was first reported in Australia in the mid-1800s,it has also been seen in New Zealand and the United States. Although Australian stringhalt is idiopathic,it is thought to be induced by toxic plants or fungi and possibly deficiencies in nutrients.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Aren't Dandelion's what they call "Greens" in the south?? That they just love??


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

Dandelion









Flatweed









Different plants, different chemically.

Here's a good post about it in another forum 
http://bushcapital.org.au/forum/index.php?topic=618.0


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

He looks wonderful  Keep working more muscle on him and then he'll look even more put together


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

That first pic is actually really cool!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Are you SURE Ponypile, maybe you are outdated :rofl:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I am so so sorry OP, I was so worried that you would be upset thinking you were poisoning your gorgeous horse, I forgot to stay with the topic, false information will do that to a person.

He looks fantastic weight wise, and is all sorts of cute as well. Muscle is what is needed now, and that will come with work.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

ponypile said:


> Dandelion
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you look at the green area-- thats the 'flatweed' one is a dandelion and the other is a catsear. :lol:



> The dandelion is a familiar perennial weed whose leaves grow flat on the ground atop a long perennial taproot.



i found this on another forum about Australian stringhalt..


> Australian Stringhalt, aka dandelion poisoning is bloody awful! I have seen at least half a dozen horses with it, to varying degrees, and it depends on how early it is caught as to recovery time. I have seen a mare that was still not right 14 months out from it being diagnosed (she was not noticed until she could barely stand or move!), and horses that were fine after a month or so.
> 
> It's not just Catsear, but also true dandelion that are the problem, and it's worst in drought, possibly because little other vegetation survives, and the horses then eat more or the dandlion, which survives drought quite well. As soon as you see any sign of the problem it is essential to get the horse off the pasture, and somewhere they can't get at the dandelion. Whatever the toxin is, it causes nerve lesions, and the longer the exposure is, the worse the damage.






> Australian Stringhalt The dramatic hind leg flexing is the same, but the cause of the nerve damage in Australian stringhalt is different from the classic condition. Horses grazing drought-stressed pastures in Australia and New Zealand may consume one of several plants including flatweed (cat's ear), fireweed, mustard weed (skeleton weed), and dandelion. Nerve damage and muscle wasting have been linked to ingestion of a mycotoxin in these weeds, which may constitute a large percentage of pasture herbage after grasses have wilted in dry months. Australian stringhalt may affect any breed, although draft horses and Thoroughbreds account for the largest number of cases.
> 
> In addition to nerves in the hind leg, long nerves elsewhere in the body, especially those controlling the larynx, are commonly affected by the toxins. Some degree of laryngeal paralysis is common in horses with Australian stringhalt, resulting in horses that "roar." Phenytoin, dilantin, baclofen, and vitamins B and E have been used to reduce signs of the condition, and results have varied. Horses removed from contaminated pastures usually recover, although progress may be slow, taking up to 18 months before normal motion is restored.


 http://www.ker.com/library/health/2010/10/shivers-stringhalt-and-australian-stringhalt.html


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Pet Health
horses
New Jersey
 
Rutgers Equine Science Center in New Brunswick, NJ announced that a toxic plant called “Catsear” has been found growing in areas as far north as New Jersey due to the high amount of rain and moisture. Horse owners should be aware of this plant as it is easily confused with the common dandelion. Dandelions are not poisonous to horses, but Catsear has the potential to be dangerous if consumed in large quantities, and Rutgers notes that some horses have been eating the plant even if adequate forage is available.
View slideshow: Catsear has been found in New Jersey pastures. The plant is poisonous to horses if ingested in large quantities. Horses have been found eating the plant according to Rutgers University.
Catsear is suspected to cause stringhalt which is a neurologic problem where the horse exaggerates the flexing of its hind legs when walking. The condition caused by the Catsear plant is known as Australian stringhalt due to its prevalence in Australia and New Zealand. Stringhalt is commonly associated with vetch and sweet pea poisoning in horses. 
 



Toxic Catsear has been identified in horse pastures as far north as New Jersey by Rutgers University. Rainy weather is responsible for the abundance of this plant toxic to horses.
Photo credit: 
Photography by Marcya Roberts, freelance writer for Examiner.com 




Keep an eye on your pastures for Catsear and other toxic plants and remove them as necessary to ensure your grazing areas are safe for horses.
*How to identify Catsear*
At first glance, Catsear plants look very similar to Dandelions, but the two plants differ in stem and leaf structure. The photo that accompanies this article was identified as Common Catsear (also known as False Dandelion) by Dr. Bradley A. Majek of Rutgers University Department of Plant Biology and Pathology.
Rutgers provides some details on how to tell Catsear apart from Dandelion:
Stems: Catsear has several stems with multiple flowers per plant, while Dandelions bear a single flower per plant.
Leaves: Catsear has soft, hairy, rounded/curved-lobed, and darker green leaves compared to Dandelion with its hairless, lighter green, course/pointed, deeply serrated leaves.
Flower: Underneath the flower, the green leaf-like structures (sepals) cling to the yellow catsear flower. In Dandelions, the sepals curl away from the flower.
Season: While Dandelion blossoms in the early spring, Catsear blossoms in the early summer.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

The winters here were very long and every dandelion ive dug up out of our garden this year have smelled like mold- had been half eaten by rolly pollies- or had visual white mold and dust on them. I can provide pictures of them being half rotted in the ground and the flower still being bright yellow-- thats when theyre the most dangerous-- the ground is moist and where there is moisture there is mold-- mycotoxins are black mold that are 'invisible' to the naked eye.

The dandelion itself isnt the dangerous thing. Its the mycotoxins that grown on these plants with flat weeds that cause australian stringhalt.. if you read the link i provided above. 

Dandelions grow when the ground isnt at its best and i would be more worried about it now with the very harsh winter weve had- if you dont believe me. Ill make sure to pull some up out of my garden and flower beds and show you what the roots look like if ya wish? 


I know some people might eat dandelions and thats fine-- if its in a garden type setting and is properly taken care of- like any greens from the garden. dandelions growing in rough warn down pastures-- growing because there is no other nutrients for good healthy grasses to grow. 


Like ive said-- its the mycotoxins that contaminate the plant-- catsear alone dont cause australian stringhalt- the mycotoxins do.. symptoms of poisoning from a toxic plant and australian stringhalt are not even the same at all. in order for your horse to even want to eat toxic plants they are either overly thirsty or under fed.. (not saying thats the case here- please dont take offense ) and in order for a horse to be poisoned by catsear theyd have to eat a lot of the plant.. 1 aint gonna kill your horse.. 


Once again- thats false information-- mycotoxins cause australian stringhalt.. not the catsear plant alone.



> Causes
> 
> The most common plant species that have been found and identified in pastures where affected horses were located include: Flatweed (Hypochaeris radicata), Sheep Sorrel and Couch. The type of nerve damage sustained in horses with Australian Stringhalt suggests a *mould toxin (‘mycotoxin’) or a fungal ‘poison’ found in the soils may be a cause for this condition. Mycotoxins can directly affect the long myelinated nerves in the hind limbs.*


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

shellybean - I just want to say that your pictures are lovely .. and so is your horse. Thanks for sharing.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

So I guess that means that if the dandelion doesn't smell or look like mold then it's safe to eat? :wink:


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

He looks great! Im sure he enjoyed his yummy snack. Like a kid in a candy store, hehe. I think his weight looks great, now he needs muscle.

Maybe we should start another thread over the weed debate. Im sure the op would like more replies to her op and not over the different weeds....


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Long winters, yeah right, ours started in first week in November and finished last week, THAT's a long winter.

Doesn't matter though, the fact remains that 

DANDELIONS ARE NOT POISONOUS.

The op has a healthy pony, in a field of very healthy looking dandelions, he is not being poisoned.

​


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> Long winters, yeah right, ours started in first week in November and finished last week, THAT's a long winter.
> 
> Doesn't matter though, the fact remains that
> 
> ...



Every one has had a long winter and it shows in the things growing.. i would not let him eat too many dandelions.. he can still ingest mycotoxins.. CATSEAR IS NOT POISONOUS EITHER!! ITS THE MYCOTOXINS!! :rofl:


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Didn't read all the way through...

I believe it's a mold that can grow on dandelions that can cause poisoning in horses, not the dandelions themselves.

If you google dandelion poisoning in horses you'll find some references.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Toto, I'm glad that you shared your concern and information with us. That being said, I have always had dandelions and my horses always have eaten them. Since I have noticed that my horses will avoid any forage that hints of mold, I believe that they wouldn't eat moldy dandelions. I pull many of mine and feed them to my chickens. I try to pull them out before they've gone to seed.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

GD, your horse looks great. He's an older horse, right?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

DancingArabian said:


> If you google dandelion poisoning in horses you'll find some references.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You will find 100's of references that dandelions are either harmless or beneficial to horses.

You will find lots of references to Australian Stringhalt, mould, flat weed and or cat's ear.

You will find a very tiny limited selection linking dandelion in with the issues, mainly they appear to be pointing out the differences between dandelion and flatweed.

It is good to be aware of risk factors, it's great to discuss and make known potential problems. It is not so fine to castigate a fine and useful plant/herb because it happens to look like another plant that is causing issues.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> You will find 100's of references that dandelions are either harmless or beneficial to horses.
> 
> You will find lots of references to Australian Stringhalt, mould, flat weed and or cat's ear.
> 
> ...




I suggest you do a little more research.. the actual 'catsear' plant itself does not cause australian stringhalt.. its the mycotoxins that causes it. 'Flatweed' is the leaves at the bottom of the actual flowering weed.. a dandelion and catsear are two varieties of it.. look at the green leaves.. theyre 'flat' and the 'plant' is a 'weed' :lol:


Catsear the plant itself is not toxic-- neither is dandelion-- the mycotoxin that is found often in the two weeds cause australian stringhalt-- its caused by a fungi -not an allergic reaction to the plant-- youre confused with _yellow star thistle_.. looks like catsear and dandelion but is poisonous to equine. 

Reckon imma learn you real good, mama-- youns can get yo ejumacashon on or be illiterate to the fact! a lot like blowin out a candle with a mouth fulla petrol. :-o


This debate reminds me of the donkey scene from family guy! :rofl: youre wrong- know your wrong- but keep hollerin how youre definitely right, lol. :lol: its fine- i needed the entertainment today- i thank you for that!:wink:




"No, dandelions cant contain mycotoxin.. no your wrong.. " :lol: im messin with ya- dont take offense. 





.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

here is a plant in CA, similar to dandelion that is toxic, it is called groundsel


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

two more pics of the groundsel .


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Corporal said:


> Toto, I'm glad that you shared your concern and information with us. That being said, I have always had dandelions and my horses always have eaten them. Since I have noticed that my horses will avoid any forage that hints of mold, I believe that they wouldn't eat moldy dandelions. I pull many of mine and feed them to my chickens. I try to pull them out before they've gone to seed.



Thank you. I wasnt tryin to be a menie- just a warning and a conciderable one. 

i believe one or two would be okay but not a big pasture full of them. 

The actual flower and the greens aint moldy- the roots are and can contaminate the entire weed itself- what roots do is feed the plant and give it nutrients and such- so its pumping the mycotoxins throughout the whole thing. 

The dandelions ive pulled up this year have definitely been very moldy- with visual white mold and dusty substances on them- thats just another version of the mycotoxin. There are several.. www.mycotoxins.info - Horses - Mycotoxins in general the picture of the corn is what the roots ive pulled have been lookin like. That or theyll be so rotted the 'rollie pollies' have started devouring the roots. The actual flowering yellow parts will look pretty and bright and the green looks bright and pretty too.


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

toto said:


> If you look at the green area-- thats the 'flatweed' one is a dandelion and the other is a catsear. :lol:


Actually, a dandelion is a completely separate plant, genus Taraxacum. Where as "flatweed" and "catsear" (also cat's ear and false dandelion) are names for the same plant, genus and species Hypochaeris radicata. In terms of identifying them, true dandelions leaves usually stand up, and there is only one bloom coming from each stem, with no splitting from the original stem, the stems are hollow, and the leaves are more jagged. In catsear the leaves lie flat around the central taproot, there can be multiple blooms per stem since the stem can split several times from the original stem, the stems are not hollow, and the leaves are less jagged along the edges and tend to be fuzzy. 

I'm not arguing the fact that dandelions can have mold in them. Keep in mind all grasses/weeds in the pasture can become victim to fungi, and none of it is good for horses. However, from the papers I have found online, the particular mycotoxin causing Australian stringhalt seems to be very much more related to catsear than dandelion. And it seems like of those that reference dandelion as a cause, do so by saying "flatweed or dandelion" as though they are the same thing, as appose to separating them (flatweed AND dandelion) or using their scientific name. The ones that do, specify Hypochaeris radicata. They cannot be confused for the same thing, they are different plants and have different chemistry with different resistances to pathogens.

One thing they all seem to have in common though is the statement that it is often a result of a poorly kept/low nutrient field. But I'm pretty sure if my field is molding, I'm not going to be putting my horses on it anyways, dandelions or not.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> You will find 100's of references that dandelions are either harmless or beneficial to horses.
> 
> You will find lots of references to Australian Stringhalt, mould, flat weed and or cat's ear.
> 
> ...


Why would you only quote one sentence out of context in my post? I said that I believed it was a mold, not that it was the dandelion itself.

Dandelions, as far as I know and have seen are fine, though my horse only likes them when they're yellow.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

ponypile said:


> Actually, a dandelion is a completely separate plant, genus Taraxacum. Where as "flatweed" and "catsear" (also cat's ear and false dandelion) are names for the same plant, genus and species Hypochaeris radicata. In terms of identifying them, true dandelions leaves usually stand up, and there is only one bloom coming from each stem, with no splitting from the original stem, the stems are hollow, and the leaves are more jagged. In catsear the leaves lie flat around the central taproot, there can be multiple blooms per stem since the stem can split several times from the original stem, the stems are not hollow, and the leaves are less jagged along the edges and tend to be fuzzy.
> 
> I'm not arguing the fact that dandelions can have mold in them. Keep in mind all grasses/weeds in the pasture can become victim to fungi, and none of it is good for horses. However, from the papers I have found online, the particular mycotoxin causing Australian stringhalt seems to be very much more related to catsear than dandelion. And it seems like of those that reference dandelion as a cause, do so by saying "flatweed or dandelion" as though they are the same thing, as appose to separating them (flatweed AND dandelion) or using their scientific name. The ones that do, specify Hypochaeris radicata. They cannot be confused for the same thing, they are different plants and have different chemistry with different resistances to pathogens.
> 
> One thing they all seem to have in common though is the statement that it is often a result of a poorly kept/low nutrient field. But I'm pretty sure if my field is molding, I'm not going to be putting my horses on it anyways, dandelions or not.



There is no flatweed 'and' catsear.. theyre the same plant. The green on a dandilion grow in a flat shape- they dont stand up straight or they would be more attached to the stem, lol. They lay on the dirt or grass. i know theyre different plants- the green leaves lay on the ground and are flat and they are weeds. 


The mycotoxins are found in dandelions and catsear-- if it wasnt for the mycotoxins there would be no such thing as australian stringhalt. 

The catsear plant alone does not give a horse australian stringhalt- neither do dandelions.

They are very likely contaminated with the mycotoxins because if you have a field full of weeds (dandelions or catsear) the soil is doing poorly- poor soil means lack of nutrients- lack of nutrients means lack of good grasses whitch makes it more likely your horse is gonna eat the dandelions and catsear.

have you seen the roots on the two? Theyre long carrotish almost- reaching deep down in the moist soil-- Grass dont reach down that far in the soil. The deeper in you get the more moisture and moisture makes mold. 


If your field is molding you wouldnt know because mycotoxins are undetected by the naked eye.. a field fulla dandelions or catsear is a bad deal. The soil isnt right- its probably flooded with mycotoxins. A few dandelions or catsears in a field i wouldnt worry about. But a large area sets off a red flag..


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

toto said:


> There is no flatweed 'and' catsear.. theyre the same plant. The green on a dandilion grow in a flat shape- they dont stand up straight or they would be more attached to the stem, lol. They lay on the dirt or grass. i know theyre different plants- the green leaves lay on the ground and are flat and they are weeds.


You said in your previous post that flatweed and dandelions were the same, where as catsear was a different plant. I didn't say dandelion leafs grow straight up, if you review my post I said "stand up" as appose to lying down like catsear.



> The mycotoxins are found in dandelions and catsear-- if it wasnt for the mycotoxins there would be no such thing as australian stringhalt.
> 
> The catsear plant alone does not give a horse australian stringhalt- neither do dandelions.


I understand it's from fungi. But there is a strong correlation between catsear and mycotoxin causing stringhalt, but it is only suggested or possibly linked in dandelions and other flowers. Also in your first post on this subject you posted that "dandelions are toxic". You may want to be a more careful with how you word things to prevent confusion.



> They are very likely contaminated with the mycotoxins because if you have a field full of weeds (dandelions or catsear) the soil is doing poorly- poor soil means lack of nutrients- lack of nutrients means lack of good grasses whitch makes it more likely your horse is gonna eat the dandelions and catsear.


That's not true. A field with ONLY these types of hardy plants in it isn't does well. However our field does very well and is fertilized and managed appropriately and still has a high growth of dandelions in the spring. The difference being that we have very cool, long, mild springs with not a lot of sun. So it takes longer for the "hay" type grasses to start growing. So there is primary growth of dandelions as they start their growth earlier in the year. Come summer time you see the odd bloom and plant out there, but there is much more grasses and clover out there than any other plant.



> have you seen the roots on the two? Theyre long carrotish almost- reaching deep down in the moist soil-- Grass dont reach down that far in the soil. The deeper in you get the more moisture and moisture makes mold.


Yes they're called tap roots. Plants that have tap roots and plants with nitrogen fixation (legumes like clover) are VERY good for a pasture. Tap root plants pull nutrients and moisture up from lower down where grass roots can't reach and bring it to the surface. When the tap root plants die, they decompose and leave those nutrients on top. Nitrogen fixers trap nitrogen gas from the air and make it into a usable form that other plants can use.

Moisture doesn't always = mold. I live in a very wet area with a lot of rain and have not had a problem with mold in the pasture. The health of the plants have a lot to do with the immunity of the plant, and a strong plant living in good soil is far less likely to be susceptible to mold.



> If your field is molding you wouldnt know because mycotoxins are undetected by the naked eye.. a field fulla dandelions or catsear is a bad deal. The soil isnt right- its probably flooded with mycotoxins. A few dandelions or catsears in a field i wouldnt worry about. But a large area sets off a red flag..


You can't see the mycotoxins, no, but you can see the fungi producing the toxin. It appears grey/black, usually on the leaf, and the plant looks somewhat shriveled or burnt there.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

ponypile said:


> You said in your previous post that flatweed and dandelions were the same, where as catsear was a different plant. I didn't say dandelion leafs grow straight up, if you review my post I said "stand up" as appose to lying down like catsear.


They are both flatweeds the green part is flat- i did not say it was the same species! thats just not true!



> I understand it's from fungi. But there is a strong correlation between catsear and mycotoxin causing stringhalt, but it is only suggested or possibly linked in dandelions and other flowers. Also in your first post on this subject you posted that "dandelions are toxic". You may want to be a more careful with how you word things to prevent confusion.


its not only suggested either- some people actually call it 'dandelion poisoning' :wink:

They are toxic and dangerous when in large quantities like in the OPs lot. Its an obvious sign of barring horse field thats run down! Of course it would be moldy with the ground moist and the roots so far down into the soil.




> That's not true. A field with ONLY these types of hardy plants in it isn't does well. However our field does very well and is fertilized and managed appropriately and still has a high growth of dandelions in the spring. The difference being that we have very cool, long, mild springs with not a lot of sun. So it takes longer for the "hay" type grasses to start growing. So there is primary growth of dandelions as they start their growth earlier in the year. Come summer time you see the odd bloom and plant out there, but there is much more grasses and clover out there than any other plant.


It is true! Dandelions and catsear grow in large quantities when the soil is missing nutrients. In your case id have the soil checked- you have obviously low nitrate levels if youre havin to fertilize-- i grow hay and never fertilize my fields and they are thriving this year like crazy and not a single dandelion in my field! It aint been fertilized, limed, etc in years and its the best lookin hay field in town! This also lets me know you have no clue about what youre talkin about! 

[Just wanted to add- weve cut hay already once this year- our fields are boomin already and not a single dandelion] 



> Yes they're called tap roots. Plants that have tap roots and plants with nitrogen fixation (legumes like clover) are VERY good for a pasture. Tap root plants pull nutrients and moisture up from lower down where grass roots can't reach and bring it to the surface. When the tap root plants die, they decompose and leave those nutrients on top. Nitrogen fixers trap nitrogen gas from the air and make it into a usable form that other plants can use.


No the roots that grow off the mane root are the taproots** 



> Moisture doesn't always = mold. I live in a very wet area with a lot of rain and have not had a problem with mold in the pasture. The health of the plants have a lot to do with the immunity of the plant, and a strong plant living in good soil is far less likely to be susceptible to mold.


How do you not know you have mold? You already told me you have low nitrate levels and have to fertilize your pastures to get them to grow. Ever concidered havin a mycotoxin test run along with a nitrate test?




> You can't see the mycotoxins, no, but you can see the fungi producing the toxin. It appears grey/black, usually on the leaf, and the plant looks somewhat shriveled or burnt there.



Thats not true- there are many different types of mycotoxins and they all do very different things. Ive seen it on the mane roots and nothin wrong with the weed above ground..


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

what type of grass do you grow for your hay?


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## katieandscooby (Feb 14, 2010)

Thank you ponypile. for that last bit. Mycotoxins cannot happen without a fungus. fungI do not like heat, sun, excessive water, or the cold. You need very specific temperatures and moisture levels to allow fungi to grow. 

If I had to worry aboit this.so much, then whu do the bf's uncles horses graze on nothing but dirt dandelions and weeds all year and still be fine? ( This goes for all animals on that farm. Things live on no grass and summerfallow all the time.)

Thanks, but I will worry more about my horses getting into a green oat field after a hard freeze and dying of nitrate poisoning more then getting poisoned from mycotoxins on dandelions. Because in my whole bible and notes from my two years of vet tech school and all my ce afterwards does not anything say anything about dandelions causing mycotoxin toxicity. 

And to stay on topic - your horse looks good, jist needs some miscle like others have said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Going back to the OP's photo, would you, Toto, suggest she go out and poison all those dandelions?

I still maintain that they are NOT toxic, and the chances of them being moldy is about the same as getting mold in the hay you buy (or less) and the horses turn up their noses at mold anyway. 

I have never heard one single person EVER say "beware" of the dandelions in the field. Why, just becuase of this very interesting discussion, I picked me a big handful on my walk tonight and think I might steam 'em up and eat 'em.


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## Sweeney Road (Feb 12, 2012)

Common names for plants are why botanists use scientific Latin binomials. That way when discussing 'dandelions' we can all know that we are discussing the same plants.

The plants we know as 'dandelions' in North America are generally _Taraxacum officinale_.

The plants known as 'catsears' are in the genus _Hypochaeris_.

That's why the catsears are 'false dandelions'.

All right, back to the quibbling.

For the record, my horses, and every horse I've ever known, loves dandelions before they go to seed.


_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taraxacum_officinale_


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> and the chances of them being moldy is about the same as getting mold in the hay you buy (or less) and the horses turn up their noses at mold anyway.


Not exactly true. Endophytes (fungus/mold) can live on or IN other plants. There are all kinds of plants that fungi live symbiotically with. For example, almost all Tall Fescue in the US is infected with mycotoxin producing fungi. As is rye grass, most clover, johnson grass and other plants. So, I don't know why the dandelion is so scary when these grasses are just as prevalent.

A horse who gets the slobbers has eaten copious amounts of clover with a fungus, for example. My horse ate alsike clover with a fungus one year and she had a photosensitive reaction caused by the mycotoxin. It does happen.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> Going back to the OP's photo, would you, Toto, suggest she go out and poison all those dandelions?
> 
> I still maintain that they are NOT toxic, and the chances of them being moldy is about the same as getting mold in the hay you buy (or less) and the horses turn up their noses at mold anyway.
> 
> I have never heard one single person EVER say "beware" of the dandelions in the field. Why, just becuase of this very interesting discussion, I picked me a big handful on my walk tonight and think I might steam 'em up and eat 'em.


Poison? No! Id have the soil tested for nitrate and other deficits and for mycotoxins. A field with that many dandelions sends up a red flag for me. 

I dont know- hay at our local TSC was moldy like crazy and peoples horses been eatin that. Field growing mold- and mold that grows durring curing process are very different. But like i said the dandelions ive dug up have had whitish mold on the taproot too and the flowering part and green flats were beautiful.

:rofl: let me know how they taste!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Ooh look what has been going on when they moved the thread ad I was busy.

It's late I'm tired, some of us are trying to get seeded here, but on a quick gallop through.




toto said:


> I suggest you do a little more research.. the actual 'catsear' plant itself does not cause australian stringhalt.. its the mycotoxins that causes it. 'Flatweed' is the leaves at the bottom of the actual flowering weed.. a dandelion and catsear are two varieties of it.. look at the green leaves.. theyre 'flat' and the 'plant' is a 'weed' :lol:
> 
> And I suggest you do more research, and learn to spell and speak English while you are at it.
> 
> ...





ponypile said:


> Actually, a dandelion is a completely separate plant, genus Taraxacum. Where as "flatweed" and "catsear" (also cat's ear and false dandelion) are names for the same plant, genus and species Hypochaeris radicata. In terms of identifying them, true dandelions leaves usually stand up, and there is only one bloom coming from each stem, with no splitting from the original stem, the stems are hollow, and the leaves are more jagged. In catsear the leaves lie flat around the central taproot, there can be multiple blooms per stem since the stem can split several times from the original stem, the stems are not hollow, and the leaves are less jagged along the edges and tend to be fuzzy.
> 
> I'm not arguing the fact that dandelions can have mold in them. Keep in mind all grasses/weeds in the pasture can become victim to fungi, and none of it is good for horses. However, from the papers I have found online, the particular mycotoxin causing Australian stringhalt seems to be very much more related to catsear than dandelion. And it seems like of those that reference dandelion as a cause, do so by saying "flatweed or dandelion" as though they are the same thing, as appose to separating them (flatweed AND dandelion) or using their scientific name. The ones that do, specify Hypochaeris radicata. They cannot be confused for the same thing, they are different plants and have different chemistry with different resistances to pathogens.
> 
> One thing they all seem to have in common though is the statement that it is often a result of a poorly kept/low nutrient field. But I'm pretty sure if my field is molding, I'm not going to be putting my horses on it anyways, dandelions or not.


Good post



DancingArabian said:


> Why would you only quote one sentence out of context in my post? I said that I believed it was a mold, not that it was the dandelion itself.
> 
> Dandelions, as far as I know and have seen are fine, though my horse only likes them when they're yellow.


Because it suited me to? the point is that TOTO is stating that dandelions are poisonous, and they are not. Much more research needed



toto said:


> have you seen the roots on the two? Theyre long carrotish almost- reaching deep down in the moist soil-- Grass dont reach down that far in the soil. The deeper in you get the more moisture and moisture makes mold.


Actually many field grasses DO put down very deep roots, it is only the lawn variety that is habitually shallow rooted



toto said:


> They are both flatweeds the green part is flat- i did not say it was the same species! thats just not true!
> 
> :?: What?
> 
> ...





Sahara said:


> what type of grass do you grow for your hay?


I grow green grass, how about you?

You know flat bladed, and mine varies from a grass alfalfa mix, to dense fertilized plant free grass, to native deep rooted, with a mix of plants in it!


OK, it's late, and as I say, I am very tired, so I'm off.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Awwwwww- golden horse, youre angered at the fact that youre wrong and youre using insults to compensate for the lack of factual information.. 

Sounds like you need a hug-- 'commere!:hug: 


No hard feelings, sweetheart-- i might be an 'idiot' but at least im happy.. :mrgreen:


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Sahara said:


> what type of grass do you grow for your hay?


its an orchard grass mix.. real good stuff. Bails up (cures) nice and its got enough in it (meets our horses nutrient requirements) that we dont need to feed grain or supplement our horses in any way. (We do have a mineral block) They have great feet- shiny coats- and are healthy weight. All that matters to me. ;-) 

..oh and that they dont eat any mycotoxin affected dandelions, lol.  :lol:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

toto said:


> Awwwwww- golden horse, youre angered at the fact that youre wrong and youre using insults to compensate for the lack of factual information..
> 
> Sounds like you need a hug-- 'commere!:hug:
> 
> ...


FACT 1: I'm no ones sweetheart, just a hard working farmer and horse owner with a low tolerance level for BS.

FACT 2: I'm not wrong, where as time and again in seemingly thread after thread you state your opinions as facts, and also seem to think that your way is the only way.

FACT 3: Glad you recognize an insult, because that means that when you are chucking them around you ARE doing it deliberately.

FACT 4: I am very very choosy who actually touches me, so please do not hug, it makes me twitchy.

FACT 5: I'm glad you are happy and you recognize what you are, makes life so much more pleasant.


============================================

What you do not seem able to grasp is that all this stems from the FACT that you are wrong, 

YES there is a causal link between AUSTRALIAN(as in prevalent in Australia) stringhalt read this https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...jCkxQIkG29szeZQ&bvm=bv.46471029,d.aWc&cad=rja

ONE mention of the word dandelion and that is when paired with false, as in *false dandelion.

===================================

Step by step, 

Dandelions are not poisinous to horses or people, but a highly beneficial herb*: or a weed if you prefer, but beneficial just the same.

There is a mycotoxin that exists that causes Australian Stringhalt

This mycotoxin is found on Flatweed (_Hypochaeris radicata_), Sheep Sorrel and Couch, false dandelion.

It is found on highly stressed land following drought conditions.

SO returning to the pic that started it all, a cute looking pony happily grazing on and around healthy dandelions and good looking grass, it is scaremongering and totally false to state "you know that dandelions or poisonous don't you"


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think both sides have been fully represented. I know where I stand, and I know that no one is required to agree with me. But , this is becoming way too personal, so at this point, I am taking my moderator's perogative and closing this thread.


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