# I feel like I’m not getting better at riding...



## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

natasha06 said:


> And I want to lease a horse, after 9 years of riding, I want to lease a horse! My instructor wants me to do a program that my barn has, which is REALLY expensive, way more expensive than leasing a horse. And you can’t ride that much! I’ve been searching for a lease horse, I have a ton of my friends who have horses for lease. I’m going to try their horses after quarantine.


If your parents are on-board with leasing a horse and understand the costs, on top of lessons & show fees, I say go for it.

I worked for a instructor/trainer that did a specific program with her personal horses. It was 3 rides a week, one ride which was lesson, and the rates were _astronomical_. It was nearly enough to just buy your own horse, board it with her, and take lessons normally with the same instructor! 

Most of the kids at that barn did that specific program and won with the horses, but I truly do not think they were progressing as riders. I think each one of them would have benefitted way more leasing/buying their own horse, that isn't perfect show-button trained, and learning how to teach new things to their horses.

So - I guess that's the question - would you rather just go out and win and not progress, or make progress and win on your own work? I know my answer.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't think anyone is going to come at you on here. 

I'm 28 and I didn't own my first horse until I was 26; I've been riding since I was like 14! It takes time. There's no timeline for owning a horse. 

I think there's nothing wrong with looking for a lease horse. Leasing is great, I enjoyed leasing before I got my own horse. It was a lot cheaper. I didn't have all the big responsibilities that came with horse ownership, I got to ride as much as I wanted yet didn't have to take care of any vet bills or any expenses. Just rode and hungout with the horse as much as I wanted. Definitely depends on what is in the leasing contract, of course - not every lease is the same!

Leasing a friend's horse is a good idea too, but just make sure they have a contract, in writing. Just to play it safe.  

Also, try not to compare yourself to others - everyone is on their own journey. You are making your OWN progress. Keep doing what you're doing. Things take time. Stick to your goals but don't rush anything. Just enjoy it & have fun.


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## Keira Cloudhawk (Nov 18, 2019)

ClearDonkey said:


> ]
> If your parents are on-board with leasing a horse and understand the costs, on top of lessons & show fees, I say go for it.
> 
> I worked for a instructor/trainer that did a specific program with her personal horses. It was 3 rides a week, one ride which was lesson, and the rates were _astronomical_. It was nearly enough to just buy your own horse, board it with her, and take lessons normally with the same instructor!
> ...


I got to agree with @ClearDonkey, do you want to win and not advance? Or advance and win with time?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

natasha06 said:


> *I feel like I’m not getting better at riding...* Before you come at me, here me out.
> 
> I’ve been riding for a long time now. I still don’t have a horse....
> 
> ...





As a teen you still have quite a bit to learn. You also have parents footing the bill for all of this. Consider yourself blessed. Mine wouldn't even hear of me taking lessons. And rent a rides...yeah, no. One time on a family vacation. That was it. It may be less for you to lease but you still have to pay for lessons. How often do you ride? How often could you ride the lease. The more you ride the more you pay. While you may be able to lease and ride more you still need instruction and you may not be able to just go out and jump anytime you ride. Depends on the lease and the rules where you board. And thinking you will learn more and get further on your own, on a lease horse isn't going to happen without lessons. As to barn shows vs away shows - at the barn show you pay your fees and ride. At an away show you have to have permission from the owner, should have your trainer $$$, have to have a way to get the horse there$$$...and on a leased horse you will likely have to have your own tack unless the owner is your size$$$.


I am sure there are quite a few considerations you have overlooked. It sounds like you are in a good program and working towards a goal. Time to get your parents involved and sit down with your instructor so that you can all work together.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I was in your shoes. I think I was fifteen when I got my first horse (16 when I finally paid for him). I worked part time at a retail store and paid $100 a week for him for a total cost of $500. I was on lesson horses so my maximum height was 2'6" but only on show days. Lesson days we were only allowed to do 2' and we didn't choose what the lesson was. We did whatever the Instructor had planned. My barn also had a ridiculously expensive partial lease program where you could only ride on assigned days.

I remember feeling like I was THE ONLY one in the barn that didn't have their own horse which was only partly true and I also felt like everyone else was getting better then me. I could only do the shows that were at the barn because I used lesson horses and the private owners always outplaced me. 

Looking back It's not that they were better necessarily. More that they had their own horses and got to ride a lot more and new their mount much more.

I know how you feel. I remember those days. I would go for a lease horse if that is an option for you. Definitely.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Do keep in mind that how _well_ you jump is a lot more important than how high you jump! There's a lesson barn in my area where the kids are permitted to jump 3' and 4'... and have no business doing it as their legs are swinging all over the place, they're always catching the horses in their mouths, and the riders fall off at every single refusal, long spot, or other minor hiccup. It's terrifying. They all need to go back to basics over smaller fences, but probably won't, as they all think they've "made it" because they can jump "high."

I realize this doesn't answer your questions, but just mentioning it for a bit of perspective.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

ClearDonkey said:


> natasha06 said:
> 
> 
> > And I want to lease a horse, after 9 years of riding, I want to lease a horse! My instructor wants me to do a program that my barn has, which is REALLY expensive, way more expensive than leasing a horse. And you can’t ride that much! I’ve been searching for a lease horse, I have a ton of my friends who have horses for lease. I’m going to try their horses after quarantine.
> ...



Totally understand!! I ride about 3-4 times a week (before quarantine) and we would mostly w/t/c, and maybe canter a pole. I’ve had the same schedule. 

I’ve wanted to explore more lessons, but I feel entitled to staying in that lesson, since I’ve always been in it.

I would definitely want to make progress first. I think I quoted myself wrong haha! I think I meant to say this:

I love to show, I really love it! But most shows outside of my barn, you have to jump 2’9” or higher, or 2’6” oxers. I love my barn, and I know it’s helped me make progress, but I feel like I’m learning the same thing over and over. Sorry if I messed up writing it 🙂


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

SteadyOn said:


> Do keep in mind that how _well_ you jump is a lot more important than how high you jump! There's a lesson barn in my area where the kids are permitted to jump 3' and 4'... and have no business doing it as their legs are swinging all over the place, they're always catching the horses in their mouths, and the riders fall off at every single refusal, long spot, or other minor hiccup. It's terrifying. They all need to go back to basics over smaller fences, but probably won't, as they all think they've "made it" because they can jump "high."
> 
> I realize this doesn't answer your questions, but just mentioning it for a bit of perspective.


Yes totally agree!! I totally understand what you’re saying!

When I started out riding, all other barns recommended my current barn because it was “good for young beginners”. I’ve always wanted to try a new barn, possibly a barn for the discipline I want to do, but I feel stuck with my barn. I love it, and I’m super active there!

My friends who are the same level as me, (we’re considered advanced at my barn) all feel the same way. 

I just wish that there was a way to get better. I’m not sure if switching barns would do any good.

At this point I think that leasing is really a good opportunity to venture out, and try new horses. And to focus on one horse, and we can learn together. 🙂


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

farmpony84 said:


> I was in your shoes. I think I was fifteen when I got my first horse (16 when I finally paid for him). I worked part time at a retail store and paid $100 a week for him for a total cost of $500. I was on lesson horses so my maximum height was 2'6" but only on show days. Lesson days we were only allowed to do 2' and we didn't choose what the lesson was. We did whatever the Instructor had planned. My barn also had a ridiculously expensive partial lease program where you could only ride on assigned days.
> 
> I remember feeling like I was THE ONLY one in the barn that didn't have their own horse which was only partly true and I also felt like everyone else was getting better then me. I could only do the shows that were at the barn because I used lesson horses and the private owners always outplaced me.
> 
> ...


Thank you! 

I totally agree. My barn’s “leasing program” (it’s really NOT leasing) is three times as expensive as leasing a horse you can ride everyday.

Thank you!! I will definitely lease a horse in the future 🙂


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Hi!

My parents and I have already went to look at a friends horse. It took a few slideshows to convince them to let me lease a horse. 

We’re ready to have a horse (whether lease or ownership). My barn has a boarding program, where lessons are included. One a week, but you can pay for more, or exchange for barn work (which I already do), and you can ride as many other times as you’d like. It’s actually not as expensive as I thought!

I ride 3-4 times a week (before quarantine) and we can come everyday if I have a horse to work with (my barn is fairly close to where I live)

I already own a lot of the needed equipment to lease a horse, but I would still need to buy more. The horses that I’m looking at come with tack that I can take to my barn, and are willing to drive their trailer to my barn often to take my horse to shows.

I realize that there are a lot of costs. It’s quite a lot to think about. Thank you for the input 🙂


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

You've already been given some great advice, so I won't add to that, but I will let you know...

I was in that spot too. Like @QtrBel, my parents (as nice and supportive as they were otherwise) did not pay for my "horse shenanigans." I was a working student starting at 10 years old. I worked off every single lesson and competition from there on out. I competed, though I got stuck competing 2'6" from the age of 13 to 17 because that was the max their lesson horses were capable of. I can count on one hand the amount of times my parents have seen me ride. I never leased a horse, let alone owned one.

I cannot count the number of times my moody teenage self cried over not being able to advance as a rider, because I was stuck for five years doing the same thing over and over again. My trainer even told me, you have a lot of potential, you could go places, but you can't, because our horses can't bring you there. Nothing I could do about it! Every single other student my age at my stable was jumping 4' on the imported warmbloods their parents bought for them. You could only imagine my jealousy and frustration.

When I was 18, I was in my freshman year of college, and I actually got _downgraded_ to competing in flat-only as a member of my college's equestrian team. Why? They needed solid, concrete proof (aka - competitive history at rated shows) to know that I was capable of competing at a higher level. I didn't have that proof, because I only ever could afford local shows. That was a big blow to me, and made me realize maybe that's not where I wanted to stay, because obviously it didn't make me happy and no one took me seriously.

When I was 19 (last year), I got my own horse. I finally had the money to do so on my own. And guess what? She doesn't even like jumping! And even crazier? _I'm okay with that!_ I'm learning to get out of my jumping-is-all-I-can-do-and-I-need-to-go-higher mentality. I'm learning a lot more about myself and my horse than I ever was now that I'm releasing myself from that narrow and detrimental mindset. I'm learning about other disciplines and activities, and finding that exploring is more rewarding (and usually safer :rofl than zip-tying myself down into the competitive hunter/jumper field. It is no longer the end of the world if I can't jump fancier horses over higher fences at bigger shows.

Be patient, optimistic, and open-minded... And see where it lands you!


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> You've already been given some great advice, so I won't add to that, but I will let you know...
> 
> I was in that spot too. Like @QtrBel, my parents (as nice and supportive as they were otherwise) did not pay for my "horse shenanigans." I was a working student starting at 10 years old. I worked off every single lesson and competition from there on out. I competed, though I got stuck competing 2'6" from the age of 13 to 17 because that was the max their lesson horses were capable of. I can count on one hand the amount of times my parents have seen me ride. I never leased a horse, let alone owned one.
> 
> ...



I absolutely love your response!! I do pay off my extra lessons with being a working student, just like you did!

I agree! The school horses at my barn are used multiple times a day, and can’t jump higher than 3’. Some of the school horses cannot even jump. And I totally understand that those horses are not capable, and that’s why I feel the need to have a horse who can do it all.

I also cannot count the many nights I have been my moody, hormone filled teenage self and cried about how those skinny, perfect, gorgeous and great at riding girls have got their gorgeous, perfect warm bloods, or their Hanoverians, but then I realize, wait they lease horses, what am I talking about haha!!

Thank you for your response! It really helped me actually!! A lot! 🙂


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

natasha06 said:


> I also cannot count the many nights I have been my moody, hormone filled teenage self and cried about how those skinny, perfect, gorgeous and great at riding girls have got their gorgeous, perfect warm bloods, or their Hanoverians, but then I realize, wait they lease horses, what am I talking about haha!!


What makes me feel better is thinking that all those "perfect" girls actually know little to nothing about _horses_. Someone else feeds their horse, someone else pays the bills, someone else mucks the stall... All they know is how to ride, and usually, not even that. If you plucked them off their perfectly trained, conditioned, and tolerant horse and put them on some of the wild green horses I rode just to have something to sit on, they'd be off in seconds! They have not been trained to be horse people - They have been trained (or should I say _groomed_) to win, and nothing more.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Thank you!! You've just made me feel 100 times better about myself haha! I really needed that thank you!


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

natasha06 said:


> I totally understand how you’re feeling, cause I feel the same way! I’ve been riding for about 9 years, still don’t own a horse, my instructor doesn’t even think I should lease. Not sure why.... but I’m searching for a lease anyways.
> 
> I think it would be best to talk to her. I’m going to do that after quarantine. My friends jump 3ft too and I feel like it’s unfair. Let’s both make personal plans to talk to our instructors. I hope I helped!


Do you have the financial BACKING for a horse to lease? To pay not only the lease fee but shoes, veterinary care (including an emergency fund), tack, supplements, lessons, etc? 

Like we said earlier in the thread, are you prepared to be jumping? Are you riding multiple times a week, putting the hard hours in, doing the homework? Many people want to jump, but very few do it correctly.
Reread through the thread


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> What makes me feel better is thinking that all those "perfect" girls actually know little to nothing about _horses_. Someone else feeds their horse, someone else pays the bills, someone else mucks the stall... All they know is how to ride, and usually, not even that. If you plucked them off their perfectly trained, conditioned, and tolerant horse and put them on some of the wild green horses I rode just to have something to sit on, they'd be off in seconds! They have not been trained to be horse people - They have been trained (or should I say _groomed_) to win, and nothing more.


As someone who grew up showing a nice horse and riding a naughty pony, has trained horses, has nice horses as an adult now, and shows with juniors and pony kids - those kids are working their hind ends off.
I have never seen anyone work harder than a kid going to pony finals or a junior trying to prove themself as a rider. 
Seriously.
Have you seen the work kids who go out and win every week at WEF put in? They are at the barns at 4:30 or 5, ready to school horses. They have flat or no stirrup lessons at 6am before the sun is up, they drive three hours from their houses to train with the best and get screamed at if they so much as flub a lead change because they know better. I've known juniors who would have a fall and debate walking the horse out of the other end of the ring just to not have to face their trainer while point chasing. Because they know they know better. 
But holy crap do they become amazing riders. 
A lot of them know a good chunk of horse knowledge, too. They don't have to groom or muck at shows, or sometimes at home. You know why? They're in the saddle working to be the best they can be. They know HOW to do things, but are working with trainers who can mount them properly so they can win. 
I had my horses at home when I was in high school and booed and hooed over how other people boarded their horses, thought I was high and mighty until I started boarding in college and saw that every other person on the show circuit was a _better_ horse person than me. 

Are there some people who don't know a lick about wrapping or bitting or barn work?
Of course!
But are they the ones winning every week and becoming professionals? Nope.
They're the ones falling off at every refusal and can't ride well either. 

Let's check our attitudes at the in-gates, ladies and gents. We're all doing this sport for the love of the horse and those who aren't don't last. 


As for the thread and OP's questions...

I asked this in another thread, but are you truly ready? Are you applying yourself in lessons, solid in the saddle, and prepared to jump 3'?

Rated H/J shows all have classes from W/T to 1.20-1.40 jumpers, they just cost more and I'm sure your barn doesn't want to spend the ring conflicts with the unrated ring (usually the pony ring, as well). 
They're expensive. 
They're time consuming.
And if you don't know how to help well and correctly, you'll be in the way of the whole operation. I've been a working student/groom with Grand Prix horses and ride at a barn now where clients aren't allowed at the barn during the shows because it messes with the flow of the grooms and trainers. 
Rated shows also include way more nerves for those not used to it, are you mentally ready for that? 
Do you have appropriate tack, equipment, and show clothes? 
Are you ready to pay for stall mats, shavings, hay, feed, night watch, grooming stalls, and the trainer splits for overnight shows? Braiding fees? (Some barns braid unrated divisions, some don't)

Also, leasing a horse behind your trainer's back is a terrible idea, and I know trainers who would kick clients out for that sort of thing. You could easily get yourself hurt or in a dangerous situation. 
Or a situation where you get duped, or had, or overcharged, or stuck with a very lame horse.
Leasing does require you to pay vet bills, normally, too. And shoes. It depends on the contract. 
I can only see a headache for your parents through all of this, if a knowledgeable, capable horse person is not involved.

What reasons has your trainer given for you not leasing out of the barn? How much work do you actually do to work off lessons? Are your parents really invested in taking you out every day to ride? Is that something you're ready to commit to? 

That's just a small smattering of questions and concerns I have, as someone who's been doing this her entire life. Everything you say, personally, is a red flag. 
Instructors rarely have vendettas against people, there is definitely a deep rooted reason as to why you aren't progressing at the rate you believe you should be.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

@Aprilswissmiss

IHSA is extremely competitive, and it's a requirement at most schools to have a USEF record to do even novice over fences, the lowest you can jump. 
They didn't not value you, they used their normal guidelines, as well as saw that you were strong on the flat therefore had a better chance of winning for them, and qualifying yourself towards national championships.
Understand the rules so you can play the game correctly, is pretty much an IHSA motto.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

Double Post, apologies


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

Interstellar said:


> @Aprilswissmiss
> 
> IHSA is extremely competitive, and it's a requirement at most schools to have a USEF record to do even novice over fences, the lowest you can jump.
> They didn't not value you, they used their normal guidelines, as well as saw that you were strong on the flat therefore had a better chance of winning for them, and qualifying yourself towards national championships.
> Understand the rules so you can play the game correctly, is pretty much an IHSA motto.


I 100% understand that. I know it is all national rules - I never felt personally targeted (I didn't intend it to come off that way in my last post). I just meant it wasn't the environment I wanted to be in. I didn't explain much, because my post was already long, but the entire team was very cliquey and myself, with a working student background, did not mesh well with the rich students. I am not saying that is how all IHSA teams are - that's just how it happened to be at my university.

And, in general, I was simply over being part of competitive jumpers/hunters. Nothing to do with IHSA in particular. For some reason, that just happened to be the period of time when it clicked with me. I'd go around and win all day since I was at a lower level than I should have been, but it didn't make me happy, nor feel accomplished, nor did I improve as a rider or horse person (we rarely handled or rode horses in between shows, they instead had us work out at the gym). I wanted to improve myself as a horse person and not just as a rider, and I found that (in my case) I was happier and learning much more when I distanced myself from competing in the show ring.


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

Interstellar said:


> As someone who grew up showing a nice horse and riding a naughty pony, has trained horses, has nice horses as an adult now, and shows with juniors and pony kids - those kids are working their hind ends off.
> I have never seen anyone work harder than a kid going to pony finals or a junior trying to prove themself as a rider.
> Seriously.
> Have you seen the work kids who go out and win every week at WEF put in? They are at the barns at 4:30 or 5, ready to school horses. They have flat or no stirrup lessons at 6am before the sun is up, they drive three hours from their houses to train with the best and get screamed at if they so much as flub a lead change because they know better. I've known juniors who would have a fall and debate walking the horse out of the other end of the ring just to not have to face their trainer while point chasing. Because they know they know better.
> ...


I didn't intend to say that is the case for every show person at every show barn. However, that is how it was at my barn. How do I know, you say? _Because I was the one getting to the barn at 5 am, *alone,* to bathe *their* horses and clean *their* tack!_ They showed up when their class was ready, and left when their class was over. I did everything else for them. It's part of how I worked off my lessons and earned brownie points with my trainer.

When I was a part of IEA, I got called some pretty mean things and lots of eye-rolls for being "so low" as to muck stalls and clean water buckets. More than one time, they came up to me and told me - not asked me - to top off their horse's water bucket. When I pointed to the hose, they looked like they got caught having a fake resume, as they obviously had never done it before. We had team sleep-overs where we stayed at someone else's house each weekend before a show - and my house was the only one that never happened at, because I was the only one who didn't have a house big enough to sleep 20 people or parents with enough money to buy all that food. Their parents paid for every last thing, and those students never touched a manure fork in their lives.

Just my experience. Not saying it's the same for everyone.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> I didn't intend to say that is the case for every show person at every show barn. However, that is how it was at my barn. How do I know, you say? _Because I was the one getting to the barn at 5 am, *alone,* to bathe *their* horses and clean *their* tack!_ They showed up when their class was ready, and left when their class was over. I did everything else for them. It's part of how I worked off my lessons and earned brownie points with my trainer.
> 
> When I was a part of IEA, I got called some pretty mean things and lots of eye-rolls for being "so low" as to muck stalls and clean water buckets. More than one time, they came up to me and told me - not asked me - to top off their horse's water bucket. When I pointed to the hose, they looked like they got caught having a fake resume, as they obviously had never done it before. We had team sleep-overs where we stayed at someone else's house each weekend before a show - and my house was the only one that never happened at, because I was the only one who didn't have a house big enough to sleep 20 people or parents with enough money to buy all that food. Their parents paid for every last thing, and those students never touched a manure fork in their lives.
> 
> Just my experience. Not saying it's the same for everyone.


I'm so so sorry that is the experiences you had. It is nothing I've experienced at the top level of the sport, some in IHSA at the high level but not a lot, not the people who were winning anything significant. 

I hope my post can give you some hope that from my experience at a lot of barns, it's not the case. I really want to break that stigma! I know so many kids who just work work work all the time, even at the big barns with BNTs


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I have only skim read the other posts so sorry if someone has already addressed this, but I can think of two things to keep in mind.

Firstly: whenever you learn something that is both physical and mental, like horse riding, you can kinda break it down into an a) understanding component. and b) a coordination/muscle memory/physical competency component. The problem is these two things rarely ever develop together at the same pace. What this means is that your understanding of what it is you have to do is usually not in sync with you physical ability to do it. Typically when you have little understanding of things your physical ability to do things feels pretty good; so your riding will feel nice. But as your comprehension of what you need to do to ride well grows, and you understand more details at a finer level, your riding will start to feel bad. This is not because you haven't gotten any better at riding but because your understanding has eclipsed your ability to physically deliver. This usually happens in cycles where you feel good....feel not so good...….feel a lot of frustration like you are getting worse...….have a breakthrough and feel good again...…...and so on.

Secondly: there comes a point in your ability to ride where in order to really improve you just need to spend hours in the saddle. And I don't mean just like riding for an hour every day of the week, I mean sped increasing lengths of time in the saddle. This was brought home to me by a guy I worked for at a riding school. I was one of the instructors. He pointed out to me an advantage I had over the other instructors. The other instructors had loads of training in dressage, I was having to learn dressage from scratch (I came from a western riding background, I used to be a cowboy) that was my disadvantage. My advantage was I had spent years spending entire days on end in the saddle actually earning my living on the back of a horse. The other instructors however would be lucky to get a solid hour in the saddle at a time throughout their entire riding lives. I never really thought about it much until my boss pointed it out to me but I think really long periods in the saddle really does make a difference.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

AnrewPL said:


> Secondly: there comes a point in your ability to ride where in order to really improve you just need to spend hours in the saddle. And I don't mean just like riding for an hour every day of the week, I mean sped increasing lengths of time in the saddle. This was brought home to me by a guy I worked for at a riding school. I was one of the instructors. He pointed out to me an advantage I had over the other instructors. The other instructors had loads of training in dressage, I was having to learn dressage from scratch (I came from a western riding background, I used to be a cowboy) that was my disadvantage. My advantage was I had spent years spending entire days on end in the saddle actually earning my living on the back of a horse. The other instructors however would be lucky to get a solid hour in the saddle at a time throughout their entire riding lives. I never really thought about it much until my boss pointed it out to me but I think really long periods in the saddle really does make a difference.


The reason the good get good is repetitive training and time in the saddle. My coach, when she was learning to ride at the Grand Prix level, had three or four in the prix every week just so she could fix issues she had on the previous horse and just teach her mind and body how to do things. 
You can't expect to get good without hours and hours of constant work.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> natasha06 said:
> 
> 
> > I totally understand how you’re feeling, cause I feel the same way! I’ve been riding for about 9 years, still don’t own a horse, my instructor doesn’t even think I should lease. Not sure why.... but I’m searching for a lease anyways.
> ...


Hi! 

Yes, my parents and I sat down and made a plan on how much it would cost, we looked at farriers and vets who are reliable and prices are good. I already take multiple lessons a week, pay for some myself, and I work at my barn, I’ve been working there since I was 9.

I started jumping when I was about 7 years old, worked my way up to 2’6” and we just stopped jumping. The school horses at my barn can only jump up to about 2’9”, and I want to jump higher in the future, so I thought that leasing would be a good option. I have some friends who are willing to let me offsite, full lease their horses, and some are requiring lease to own, which I might end up choosing. 🙂


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

Once again, I state, leasing a horse behind your trainer's back is a very bad idea. I know people who'd kick you out of their program for that. Not sure about your trainer in your area, but, you shouldn't be doing this without help of a professional. Especially since you don't have experience and neither do your parents on dealing with contracts, payment, and usage.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

Instruction has its place but there is no substitute for being able to just ride.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> Once again, I state, leasing a horse behind your trainer's back is a very bad idea. I know people who'd kick you out of their program for that. Not sure about your trainer in your area, but, you shouldn't be doing this without help of a professional. Especially since you don't have experience and neither do your parents on dealing with contracts, payment, and usage.


Hi!

My barn is a lesson/boarding barn so they really can’t kick us out, especially because we’ve paid so much money to them. But if they really did kick me out, it would be easy for me to find a new barn, especially because I’m thinking about possibly leaving and going to a barn who specializes in the hunter ring specifically. 

I do have “professionals” who know about owning and leasing coming with me, and I’m pretty sure my instructor found out anyways, since I asked her before if I could. She told me to do my barns odd “leasing” program, but it’s really not leasing at all. And the prices are astronomical and outrageous for the amount of time being spent in the saddle. I believe you ride 2 extra times a week and pay about $1000 per month. I used to do it when the prices were lower, and I just really didn’t like how they set up the program. 
My close friend who owns her own horse and is a hunter/jumper/eventer, who is also close friends with my instructor told me to just go look at some, it really can’t do any harm, especially since a lot of my friends are allowing me to just ride their horses for fun, and willing to let me see if I would lease them.

I’m riding my friends horses AFTER quarantine to try to get more hours in the saddle after getting none at all. It’s really just practice rides on my friends horses, then I’ll talk to my instructor and show her videos. I’m really not expecting to go ahead and say, “I’ll take this one!” Because I really want to talk to my instructor about it first. This really isn’t the whole “trying horses” experience, it’s really just practicing riding again, and maybe leasing. It’s not really road trips around the country trying to find the perfect horse. After I ride all of my friends horses, I’ll show my instructor the videos of my riding, and ask her what she thinks of each horse. I really respect her opinion on horses, she’s kind of my favorite person haha, so if she says no, it might break me, but I’ll at least ask her why. 

Thanks for your input!! 🙂


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

natasha06 said:


> Hi!
> 
> My barn is a lesson/boarding barn so they really can’t kick us out, especially because we’ve paid so much money to them. But if they really did kick me out, it would be easy for me to find a new barn, especially because I’m thinking about possibly leaving and going to a barn who specializes in the hunter ring specifically.
> 
> ...


Barns have every right to kick you out, that's unfortunately how it works. I've seen many a person kicked out of boarding/lesson barns because it's much easier to have a client who works happily with you and your program than to put up with someone who says 'to heck with what you think is best, even if I'm paying you to tell me that.' 

$1000 a month for a lease on a solid lesson horse in a program without other board involved isn't that crazy. What are you expecting to pay a month/yearly for a lease? I just did some searching and could find two horses under $10,000 a year for lease. Which didn't include boarding, lessons, feed, supplements, tack, training, etc. They were younger horses who couldn't do what you're hoping to do. 

The barn has to feed this horse, put shoes on it, get it vaccinated and keep it healthy (lesson horses are usually on at least one kind of NSAID and probably get injection to keep them comfortable, too), and also somehow offset the costs of field maintenance, hay, workers who muck and feed and keep the farm in working shape. Not to mention liability insurance, farm insurance, truck and car insurance, the trainers trying to make a living wage.... 

Who are these professionals who are going with you? Your friends are not professionals. I'm talking someone who is in the industry as their job, who knows the in's and out's.


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## gomma (Apr 28, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> Barns have every right to kick you out, that's unfortunately how it works. I've seen many a person kicked out of boarding/lesson barns because it's much easier to have a client who works happily with you and your program than to put up with someone who says 'to heck with what you think is best, even if I'm paying you to tell me that.'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As someone who comes from Europe those prices sound crazy to me. When I had my own horse I payed around 350/400 euros in a nice barn, lessons included, so the leasing was half the price plus half the price for vaccines and horseshoes. I'm sorry to hear thats so expensive over there  I thought it was an expensive sport here! In Italy (where I live) with 1000 euros you stay in a luxury barn with the full pension and groom included.. 

Inviato dal mio JSN-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk


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## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

Interstellar said:


> $1000 a month for a lease on a solid lesson horse in a program without other board involved isn't that crazy. What are you expecting to pay a month/yearly for a lease? I just did some searching and could find two horses under $10,000 a year for lease. Which didn't include boarding, lessons, feed, supplements, tack, training, etc. They were younger horses who couldn't do what you're hoping to do.


I have to agree with @gomma - I have never seen prices like that around my areas of Maine or PA. At the first stable I rode at, it was $250 for a partial lease (3 rides a week) and leaser doesn't have to pay a dime towards any other care expenses. $375 for full lease, leaser doesn't have to pay a dime towards any other care expenses. These were of the stable's lesson horses (who were of a variety of ages and capabilities).

I currently pay $200 a month for board for my mare. A little bit more for feed, farrier, vet, etc. but it's typically less than $300 a month for full upkeep.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I've seen those types of prices in different parts of the eastern seaboard states, gulf coast and Tx, New Mexico - just depends on several factors. I don't like to share personal stories when they involve others and not myself but for this I will because over the years they have asked for advice. 



Most expensive lesson I have ever had was in the Washington DC area - $100 (semi private). My best friend from growing up lives there and when I used to visit regularly he always wanted me to ride with him in a lesson. I couldn't afford that much for lessons so after one we ended up riding on trails on that property. Board for he and his SO is $650 a month per horse. There is always a waiting list. They buy a package deal for lessons - 3 months at a time. $800 for 3 months of group lessons and the barn gives a bonus lesson so 13 instead of 12. That is for once a week + the bonus which is usually on a Sunday and even more crowded. 



Their niece rides at the same barn and works in the working student program. Her parents pay for those semi private lessons at $100 a lesson. For every 5 hours the niece works she gets a free lesson (can't be used toward paid lessons in their lesson program and is a group lesson not semi private). Most weeks she goes 5 days a week to work (she rides two of those days in lessons and now usually two more days not in lessons) and earns 4 more lessons a month so 8 lessons a month. Considering the traffic and their work schedules (parents and uncles) it is a major effort just for the niece to be working so little each day but school work has to be done and schedules accommodated. One brings, one picks up. Between the 4 of them since the Unks take lessons too and sometimes one of the other girl's parents they make it work. When she turned 12, two years ago, that Christmas her parents and the Unks paid for her a lease - it was/is $600 a month and that is the horse she now uses exclusively for lessons. For $600 she gets to ride the horse at least 3 times a week, most weeks 4 sometimes 5 depending on the horse's schedule as this horse has another lease (1/2 lease) on him. He is a school horse. Both girls are guaranteed to ride him in their barn shows. There are separate fees if she shows off property. So to summarize - $400 lessons, 20 hours a month work (4 lessons trade), $600 for the lease = they figured an average of 16 rides a month for $1000 + her 20 hours for the extra lessons and shows. She'd ride the same number of times even if she didn't work in the student program with this lease but she'd not have the 4 extra lessons. 



This is where the price difference comes in and they looked long and hard at it but at 12 years old they figured she'd be advancing as well as finish growing so they would be looking at selling any horse they bought and buying another in 2 to 4 years. Had they bought her a horse (provided they could get a stall there) they would have been paying $650 for board in addition to lessons, so $1050 and the up front cost of the horse for which they were now going to have to pay for farriers, vets, body workers, even more in supplies and tack specifically for the horse and what started out as not much more $ monthly if she had one of her own would have gotten quite expensive. Sure it would level off and as long as nothing unforeseen happens could end up being the best deal but you just never know. All so she could ride any time she wanted. No restrictions. They also would have had to come up with a horse that the trainer approved of. They looked and the range they were shown was $5 to $10K for a horse that was trained and would take her where she wanted to go show wise. 



Had they found one and the lesson barn did not have space, they would have had to board elsewhere and then haul the horse in for lessons which meant purchasing a trailer and vehicle, adding more time to their schedules to get the girl and the horse where she needed to be at least twice a week. This would have gotten old for all and they figured she'd quit working to spend more time riding so lose lesson time.

Have I mentioned she loves to jump? She already jumps in lessons and loves it. Really loves it. But at the two boarding barns they had looked at, in the event they did find a steal deal for a horse, as a minor the barn rules were no jumping without adult supervision and only specified heights, so now no - one drops off and one picks up. Now someone would have had to dedicate the time to stay with her while she rode and since the Unks had lessons at the other barn that meant they were out of the rotation for pick up and drop off much less stay with. One barn wouldn't allow jumping on their property if the horse and rider weren't in lessons at that barn. Two of the horses found were under $5k but they were told they would have had to pay for training lessons for either horse so it could learn the basics and jump. Both were green OTTBs. This was recommended anyway if they owned a horse just to keep the horse from learning bad habits. So now add training fees for the horse.



More recently some of the niece's friends have horses that they have grown out of and don't want to sell so are offering her leases. Niece thinks this is the way to go and is pushing everyone to make a change. Basically the lease would be that she (her adult family members) would take over most of, if not all, the horse's bills in exchange for riding as much as she wants. As long as it doesn't interfere with the owner's use they could even borrow a trailer to haul the horse back and forth to where she rides for lessons or use the trailer to haul to shows. Key words there are owner has first dibs on the trailer so if something comes up my friend's niece is now out of luck.


So - if that would happen, do you scramble for another trailer, skip the $100 lesson so she can ride her lease horse or make her go to the lesson and skip riding the lease? Or, lose show fees and entry fees if it happens on a show day? Most leases they are looking at are any where from $300 to $800 a month so mostly exclusive access to ride which just to covers board that the owner is currently paying if the horse stays on property (the property it is currently on). A couple are ok if they move the horse to the lesson barn provided there is a stall but the owners still wanted money for the lease (which would pay for basic care by vet and farrier and keep owner in the loop). One was a "free" lease. My friend asked if that was a good deal. All they had to do was move the horse off the property. Sure, great deal - you aren't paying the owner anything but you have signed on for complete financial responsibility for the horse. So no. The lease isn't "free". I also pointed out this is a great way to destroy friendships. friendships between the kids, between the adults.... So $400 lessons, lets use the $300 dollar lease - saved $300 a month but now there is no guarantee for anything except ride time on the lease and money loss in lessons if there is a conflict over the trailer plus one person has to be dedicated to lesson day so now that person loses work hours or has to be flexible enough to work other hours. New wrench - this horse can't be jumped above 3' and owner doesn't want horse jumping more than once a week for a limited amount of time. 



Going with the free lease they would be paying the same as if they had bought a horse plus taken on the maintenance costs to keep that horse sound and not known how long they could expect the horse to even continue jumping. 



No one mentioned contracts or what ifs, all of it sounds really good but the reality when dealing with horses, owners, lessors and whatever barn staff is at the barn they reside in come together the potential for everything to fall apart and get real ugly real fast goes up. 



All but the niece have decided they need to keep with the current arrangement to split the costs of her lessons and lease of the school horse. Safest $ route for now at her age. The instructor is talking about switching the lease to a more advanced horse. Same cost, more potential. This child has not shown off site as the fees are double what the barn show charges per class, plus a lesson fee for the morning of and instructor fee for being ringside, share of transport fees, show clothes, parent or guardian is asked to travel with the student until 16 all added up to more than they are willing to pay. The decision has been to stick with barn shows for now and so the trainer doesn't offer off site shows to the niece. At the barn shows she still has access to the coach for warm ups and they wear a polo that has the barn's logo on it. They haven't had to buy tack though they are looking at saddles. Fees are much more in line with what they are willing to pay since they get a barn rate. 



If that is what I would be looking at for my child to ride I could not have afforded it. But that is what it is where they are at. Now had they started with a child riding in mind and purchased property and vehicles with that eventuality in mind they'd be in a different place but they'd have taken on the costs of living for that area which probably would have meant more expense in the end. Another couple friend has land, trail rides all over and used to show, uses drafts for farming. Basically set up for horses long before their nieces came along. When their nieces wanted to ride they let them climb on theirs. When they stuck with the interest they got a couple of extra horses and let them ride as much as they could. Gave lessons in the discipline they decided on and footed the bills when the girls advanced until the girls left for college. Was it an extra expense? Sure and rodeo queen competitions on top of riding wasn't cheap. As the girls learned and advanced they bought and sold horses - bringing on younger, untrained horses with eventual resale at a premium price in mind. Never lost money on the horses. Already had the trailers and vehicles, were able to buy and sell show wear much of which they bought the basics and decorated themselves so sold for more than purchase and decorating costs.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I know you said like your instructor, but have you thought about changing barns? Another barn might have a better leasing option, if that's what you want to do, or they might have instructors or horses who will let you progress further.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> ...If that is what I would be looking at for my child to ride I could not have afforded it. But that is what it is where they are at...


WOW!  Just...WOW! I'm so lucky to live where I do and have three horses in my backyard.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

OP has stated they want to go to rated shows. A horse who has the ability to go to a rated show is going to go for roughly $10,000 on the low end of the H/J lease spectrum. Most will be in the $1000 a month range or more. I know horses who lease for $60,000 a year if they're good enough (big eq kids pay more for that just to get a good finals horse).
Peruse BigEQ or ProEquest, or just look around. Especially if she wants a horse capable to jump 3' or more. I found two horses that were under $10,000 for a year that would be suitable for this situation. And that was across all of North America. One in Quebec and one in Virginia. But that was with a lot of searching.

Show barns are expensive. That's just how it is, and how many trainers make their money. I've been at barns where board (feed/hay, shavings, and daily individual turnout, at least one ring, cross ties and tack room areas, first aid/shots when needed) was between $1200 and $950 a month. $650 for pasture/run-in board. Lessons are on top of that plus training rides, shows, clipping, etc were all extra. 

Then you have show fees. Stall, stall mats, feed and hay, trainer split, groom pay, groom tips, travel expenses, plus entry fees and food for yourself. Hotel, gas, coffee... It adds up.

A low end rated show, for one weekend (Friday-Sunday) I would say would cost a solid $3,000 on the low end of the spectrum. I would not suggest this kid try to do it herself to save money, I did it and made a lot of stupid mistakes when I first went from the eventing world into the hunters. 
Rated shows are a different gamete. Luckily a random trainer took me aside and fixed my silly mistakes. Then I got good training in a show barn and I'm here now able to do it well.

https://bigeq.com/horse/listing/without-a-doubt-oldenburg-hunter-31919/

For reference, this is an older horse who can do the 3' for over $20,000 to lease. 

For what the OP wants to do, horses are going to be expensive. Safe ones, sound ones, and ones who can go win at a rated show with the right ride. 
If she goes for a cheaper lease, I'd be afraid the horse is a stopper, spooker, and won't help her reach the goals of jumping higher.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

bsms said:


> WOW!  Just...WOW! I'm so lucky to live where I do and have three horses in my backyard.





I count my blessings every day for the ones in my backyard and the barn my child rides at.

@*Interstellar* I don't think the OP ever mentioned riding in rated shows. Chances are she'd ride at other local shows (ETA - schooling shows) that the barns in the area put on. At least that is where she'd start I suspect. Still more expensive than the show at the barn ridden at but not the expense of the rated. Here the kids do more of the local at lower levels since the barn doesn't offer more than one show a year. If they progress, the parent is willing to pay the cost then they move up into rated rated shows once they have proven themselves at the higher levels in schooling shows if their parents or they can afford it. But, plenty of schooling shows. I look at it as a best of situation. You've(G) gotten beyond just taking lessons, you've done well at your own barn show and now you are branching out with the chance to win ribbons and do something you enjoy without the commitment and cost of that next step which many kids aren't going to reach those levels or have the financial backing or be fortunate enough to have someone take them under their wing and strat them out at those rated shows.


This would be the category most of the younger set that posts I suspect falls into. They love it. They have some talent, ambition but don't necessarily have the support and will likely focus on other things in a few years. At so young an age they don't always understand the money side or haven't put the big picture together quite yet. They don't realize that their parents are more involved than signing the check. They don't see that working student programs are basically subsidized by the cost of their lessons that are paid. Its a great program and separates those that have the drive to work for what they want from those that have everything handed to them. They (with girls especially it seems) want to be doing what their friends are doing and in these types of programs there will always be those that move up because the money is there. I am in no way saying that this family can't afford what she wants. She is willing to work towards her goals but that she may not know what decisions have been made about her between her parents and the coach and limitations there may be financially. It may be they are ready and able to support a move to a lease and moving into schooling shows if they have done their homework and the coach has appraised them of the cost for her moving up, maybe not. 



Any case, if I am reading it correctly she has been at this barn since she was 4 and riding for a number of years there. Her parents I suspect are familiar with cost and what moving to the next level takes and have their own reasons for moving not quite as fast as the rider wants. 


@*natasha06* - my son has been riding since before he was born if you count my pregnancy since I rode almost all the way to the end. Before he could walk he was up on our drafts holding on to the hames. By 2 he had his own horse (yes, horse) that he was led around on. By 4 I would just walk next to them with the horse on a loose lead on trails. He had the reins. In the round pen I was just an observer and he would do things I asked to improve his rein skills because at that age and size his legs were useless in a saddle. Bareback not so much but he is handicapped so that wasn't an option at that point. By 7 he was put in lessons because he decided momma didn't know best and he and horsie were developing some bad habits. He has stayed in lessons (high school student now) with this instructor for a little longer than you have been taking instruction. He has taken from another instructor for an unrelated discipline concurrently. He enjoyed it but it wasn't a passion he was willing to trade for. Jumping is a passion for him. Does he jump - yes. Higher levels - he can. He loves it. Does he always get to jump whether on his lease or our own - no. Does he always get to jump higher than 2.9 certainly not. He still has things to work on position wise and learning how to take a course and get the horse through in the safest, best way possible. This weeks first lesson they didn't even canter much less jump. Walk - trot only. In the ring. They are working on side pass, half pass, leg yields, travers and renvers. Extending strides, shortening strides. His head hurts when he is done. So does every thing else on his body. Does this mean because he didn't canter or jump he isn't getting anywhere - no.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

natasha06 said:


> Before you come at me, here me out.
> 
> I’ve been riding for a long time now. I still don’t have a horse....
> 
> ...





Hello, I only have one advice for you: find other trainers. I started riding at 30 and I progressed very quickly because I took private lessons from top trainers that kept challenging me. A good trainer will hear you out, challenge you and help you become a better rider. Talk to your trainer and do whatever is good for you, it's your money. If you're not cantering during class and you're just riding around you might as well go out on a cheap trailride.


edit: oh yeah... and what the others said... a top horse comes with a top prize, if they let me ride the really good horses I have to pay more (up to 50 dollars for half an hour or an hour.) If your parents can't pay for that it might be an idea to work on some other horse related skills that are within reach financially?? I also would like to progress my riding but even I -an adult with a job- can't afford it....  Maybe later in life.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Actually it is her parents money as she is a young student. And sorry to disagree but just because she isn't cantering (every lesson) or jumping (heights she feels ready for) where she feels she should be doesn't mean what you are thinking it means. There is much more to learn than just how to hang on.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

@QtrBel this is from the original post:

*"I only jump 2’6”. Before you come at me for caring about height, hear me out.
I’m a hunter. My barn’s shows are for basically everyone, but I want to do away shows, but for away hunter shows. You can’t enter unless you do 2’6” oxers or higher."*

I don't see as to how this would be a schooling show as those pretty much top out around 2'6" everywhere I've been. Most rated shows have the lower divisions, so I'm thinking she wants to at least go to a B level show, at least that's what makes sense to me.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

No dear they don't. Not here at least. Not any other schooling show I've been to. They follow the national level height guidelines all the way to advanced if there are riders at that level. Same with cross country and the dressage levels.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

QtrBel said:


> No dear they don't. Not here at least. Not any other schooling show I've been to. They follow the national level height guidelines all the way to advanced if there are riders at that level. Same with cross country and the dressage levels.


In every situation I've been in (from out in the boonies in Arkansas to Welliworld and everywhere in between):

Schooling/Mock show - local and unrated completely. Does not comply with national guidelines on courses, fence height, Not much jumping above 3', if that. Used for beginner riders, those with smaller budgets, and starting young horses in a show environment. One day only, trailer in with no stalls. 

Local Circuit: closer to a real horse show. Divisions get higher. Maybe two days if it's a large area or if they split the hunters/eq from the jumper days.

B Rated - offers all national rated divisions, runs as a three day show (Friday-Sunday) as it is a smaller entry list and can be done as such. No GP or Welcome, but offers up to the 1.40 classes, or 4' performance hunters. Typically no performance hunters show unless a professional is taking them in for the owner.

A/AA Rated - A real USHJA horse show. Has a GP, Welcome, and at least one of the rated derbies, if not both (AA's typically have both at least once in a circuit). 

Dressage schooling shows typically run as a normal dressage show due to the nature of the sport. Same with eventing. 

Hunters you can say 'okay we're going to do a 2'-2'3" hunter, a 2'6-2'9" hunter, and a 2'9+ hunter. That's it.' you can't do that with levels of the other sports, really. 

Here's a prize list for a typical schooling show (it could be held in one day if they didn't have the clinic aspect of it), who's highest class is a money class mini-prix that _may_ go up to 1.05. This is a schooling show. 

https://c293bd01-841a-4282-9775-33a...d/97302d_330f4e4dc2764d90948d7cc51798b668.pdf


*ETA:* Please do not patronize me with 'dear.' I'm an adult, you're an adult, it's insulting and not appreciated.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

While there may be differences where I am at to where you are used to that does not mean that that one can make judgements and make generalized decrees by saying because Y is what happens anywhere I have lived X must not happen where you do. 



We don't have many that compete at the upper levels and stay here for long but when we do they are accommodated in the local shows. Maybe it is just one and the class is more of an exhibition for the possibilities the young riders can aspire to or a friendly competition between two. We do not live in an area that rated shows are an easy drive and don't require overnight stays and extended trips so competing and attending is a rarity. By the time those with the potential to reach upper levels and compete successfully at rated shows the instructors have steered them to those barns that have that as a focus. Those barns are also not local. 



The majority of members here do not compete at upper levels and have never been to a rated show. Those that do are a minority. There are members that have worked hard to get to the point they are at. They've made sacrifices to get there. While pointing out what it takes to reach those levels brings perspective, to make assumptions that all members getting into horses or wanting to compete are on that trajectory is a false assumption. It is also a quick way to crush the dreams of many that don't have the resources in their area to get there. Pushing that ideal as the only way in an elitist manner turns people off of horses. Making blanket statements about the way things are because that is the experience one has had doesn't make it so. 



Many of our users are in middle and high school. They may not have the means or support to take their experience beyond what is available in their locality. They are under financial constraints they may not be aware of or fully understand. They'll find out what the reality is for them in their own time and hopefully in a manner that isn't a slap in the face or makes them and their experience seem less somehow. Their parents may not belong to the "horsey" set and have no clue. They may have once belonged to that upper level world and just can't afford that for their child but want to encourage their love for all things horse. They want their kid to learn something they are interested in and progress to the point that they see success but are not able to take it much further.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

I completely understand what you are saying, but from everything the OP has stated, it sounds very much like she is striving to go to a rated show of some sort. (Probably a regional B show). Using the clues I have been given, that is what makes the most sense to me. 
A/AA shows are unobtainable to a lot of people. Most of the horse world is. But if someone is striving towards that, you can give them all of the information possible. 

I was pointing out that local shows accommodate a much lower set of riding than an away from barn show that requires her to jump 2'6" oxers. A schooling show locally shouldn't have any issue accommodating a 2', 18", or even cross rail crown. A rated B show would also accommodate that, as cross rails and ground pole classes are offered at a lot of smaller A/AA shows. 

The OP is pursuing hunters, and I am just trying to educate from someone who is versed in that show world, from the ground up. 

Someone is always going to have more money than you. That's just how it works. There is always going to be Wall Street kids with $500,000 ponies, but in the same division you are going to have a kid who found their pony in a backyard somewhere and has worked hard to get it to just the same level. You're going to have the 1.45 high Jr/AO horse that was imported from Belgium two weeks before where he was winning the 1.60 and you're going to have the horse someone has brought up from a homebred or a OTTB who really is excelling. 

Both have worked hard and ride every day. Both are able to do what they do because of hard work in the saddle, just come from differing monetary situations. 

Hard work, long hours, and determination can get anyone to the top level of a sport. You have to find the right way to do it, and be willing to never sleep, learn to braid, clean moldy tack for hours just to get one ride on a 1.30 sale horse or a 4' hunter, but you can make it. 
It shouldn't be disheartening, it should be motivating. I worked lessons off in a show barn as a teen, I still wrap my own horses every night even with grooms at shows. 
The riders who want to prove themselves, who are ready to work, can make it. Even if the end goal is a perfect 2'3" course at a schooling show! 

If they're sensitive enough to be disheartened by an online forum stating the facts of 'this is what a national premier level show will cost/this is the highest level of the sport' then showing may not be for them.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

|@Interstellar Money makes everything in life easier, so it seems.  Although people that really work for it might have more to show for it.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> OP has stated they want to go to rated shows. A horse who has the ability to go to a rated show is going to go for roughly $10,000 on the low end of the H/J lease spectrum. Most will be in the $1000 a month range or more. I know horses who lease for $60,000 a year if they're good enough (big eq kids pay more for that just to get a good finals horse).
> Peruse BigEQ or ProEquest, or just look around. Especially if she wants a horse capable to jump 3' or more. I found two horses that were under $10,000 for a year that would be suitable for this situation. And that was across all of North America. One in Quebec and one in Virginia. But that was with a lot of searching.
> 
> Show barns are expensive. That's just how it is, and how many trainers make their money. I've been at barns where board (feed/hay, shavings, and daily individual turnout, at least one ring, cross ties and tack room areas, first aid/shots when needed) was between $1200 and $950 a month. $650 for pasture/run-in board. Lessons are on top of that plus training rides, shows, clipping, etc were all extra.
> ...


Hi!

My parents and I sat down and talked about one horse specifically. He’s an eventer, a jumper, a dressage prospect, and more importantly to me, a hunter. He’s one of my friends horses, he’s a 16.2 hh OTTB gelding. Super sweet and athletic, and we both can go places. He’s offered for $3,000 for sale, and the same price for lease to own. My parents and I decided we could go take a look at him after quarantine was over, since my friend was offering to let me take a look. It’s honestly just going to be refreshing to get back into the saddle after having to be inside all day, and if I like him, I’ll talk to my instructor.

She never really said “no” to it, she said she’ll look around. I really wouldn’t call her a professional, she’s 20 years old, and works as an instructor part time. She used to lease, and she doesn’t anymore, as she’s looking for her own horse. Nobody at my barn is really a “professional” except for maybe one lady, who’s one of the best instructors in my state, which is Maryland. I’m confused which website you’re looking at for a $10,000 horse... because that’s not how much it costs for horses in Maryland... usually, Maryland horses are OTTB hunters, and not very expensive, but extensively trained.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> I completely understand what you are saying, but from everything the OP has stated, it sounds very much like she is striving to go to a rated show of some sort. (Probably a regional B show). Using the clues I have been given, that is what makes the most sense to me.
> A/AA shows are unobtainable to a lot of people. Most of the horse world is. But if someone is striving towards that, you can give them all of the information possible.
> 
> I was pointing out that local shows accommodate a much lower set of riding than an away from barn show that requires her to jump 2'6" oxers. A schooling show locally shouldn't have any issue accommodating a 2', 18", or even cross rail crown. A rated B show would also accommodate that, as cross rails and ground pole classes are offered at a lot of smaller A/AA shows.
> ...


Hi, totally forgot to say this in the other post!

-my parents are totally on board with the prices we have to pay, and we’re ready for it.
-my barn is behind me, they know that this is something that I want to do.
-my instructor knows that I want to lease a horse, she said she’d look, but she never really did.
-I kind of want to go to a different barn/a calmer atmosphere but I think I might stay. Not sure. But that’s a different conversation. 
-I don’t want to go to “A/AA Rated Shows” anytime soon, probably not this year. I was honestly planning on doing my barns schooling shows, joining my barns show team, and maybe doing a few local shows. Nothing too fancy. Although it’s my dream to go to pony finals, I know it won’t happen, but hopefully I’ll be able to do some USEF and USHJA shows in the future, but I’m not planning on buying a fancy, expensive horse.
-Also, you don’t NEED an expensive horse to do a rated show. I know a ton of people who took their less expensive horses, trained them the way they needed them to be, and beat the $30,000 hunter ponies. For example, my barn got a horse that was basically surrendered at auction. They trained him a bit, jumped around some fences, and they sold him. He’s still at my barn, as a boarder, and they sold him for a rather low price. He’s beating the $50,000 warmblood in the hunter ring, and beats all the horses in the jumper ring. It’s about how much hard work you put in, not about how expensive your horse is. I’m ready to put in all the work, and this horse, has extensive experience and training, and he’s my level.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

natasha06 said:


> Hi, totally forgot to say this in the other post!
> 
> -my parents are totally on board with the prices we have to pay, and we’re ready for it.
> -my barn is behind me, they know that this is something that I want to do.
> ...


Two things to both of your current posts:

A horse is not a prospect in four different rings. A hunter is a very different animal than an Eventer. I tried turning my Eventer into a hunter and it just isn't what they're good at - normally. There are some stars out there who can do anything, but they're not common. 
How trained is this horse? Are you really ready to train an OTTB? Do you have a soft hand, leg, and seat? Do you have the patience and emotional depth to understand how to ride calmly through anything. 
Training an OTTB is very, very different from anything else. It's not a good first training project, especially with a 'trainer' who is so young. 

Having a horse like that could really dampen your confidence and want to ride. But you don't seem to want to hear that right now and you just really want your own horse. I understand that, I can feel your passion and want but I also think you need to - and trust me I know how HARD this is - take every emotion out of it and think 'will this make me a better rider _right now_? In the exact situation you are in.

Specifications are important when trying to get help, so saying you want to do local away shows is different than saying rated shows that need to be jumping 2'6". It helps us give you better advice and helps you get better information in the long run.

Expensive horses are only as good as they're ridden or as their bloodlines are. Many people buy what's in their budget - which can be very high, but don't know how to ride it. They could be on a $50,000 horse to teach them how to do a higher division or to help their confidence because they've fallen. Sometimes they turn out to be duds, too, it all happens.

And since you asked, I used Big Eq and ProEquest - both are the norm for H/J sales and leases of all types.

ETA: Sorry, and I know this is insane and I agree - but $30,000 is a really low pony price. It's insane, like actually insane, but I think a pony finals pony who's in top 10 area is well into the six figures. Mind boggling to be in a pony barn. 

If your goal is pony finals (which is a GREAT goal!) try and find a good hunter trainer near you and give them that goal. There are a lot of green ponies who need riders at finals, and a lot of trainers who want their ponies shown. If that's your goal I'd start looking for a young pony to work with instead of an OTTB. Ponies are a better first training project or ride. 
A kid I know had one pony she owned and then every year catch rode/leased a green pony for finals so she could go to the show even if her 4 yo didn't qualify. 
It's a very obtainable goal for you to have, if you're willing to double down and ride hard.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> natasha06 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, totally forgot to say this in the other post!
> ...


So, I should probably clarify some things:

-The horse I’m looking at loves XC, and has done eventing. He’s comfortable in both the hunter ring and jumper ring. He can extend his stride and collect it, which is important in the hunter ring, and also has the movement for it, but is also a jumper, and his heart is in the hunter/jumper ring. He’s done lower level eventing, so not huge fences and lots of XC and dressage. He’s done basically everything, and he’s 11 years old, so he’s definitely NOT a green thoroughbred that I would have to train.
-I’m confused, I never said I wanted to do rated shows, I said I wanted to do some local away shows and some at my barn...? Could you specify what you were saying?
-I’ve worked for YEARS, on a soft leg, hand, and seat. Like, most of my riding career, I’ve been trained to develop it, and have it be recorded, so I can have an eye to see it. I’m pretty confident that I have a soft leg, hand, and seat, and I don’t rely on the bit, stirrups, and it’s pretty safe to say that I don’t flop in the saddle. I’ve just been trained like that, from day one, to especially have a light seat, like, extremely light, and I hope to always have that. 
-The horse that I’m looking at is not a green OTTB, he’s been trained, and is 11 years old. He’s had the same owner since he retired, but she’s going back to college, and she needs someone to look after him.
-I actually don’t use BigeEq, and people definitely wonder why, just for me, I tend to have a big heart for every horse I see, and fall in love easily with looks and description. Horses on BigEq are drop dead gorgeous and their description is very, very fancy. Horses and ponies in Maryland tend to go up to the upper $30,000s on BigEq, so I try to steer away from those kinds of websites and I tend to look at DreamHorse.com more often, because they have more horses, and more ways to put in criteria. I would suggest to anyone to look there if you’re looking for a horse, because you can put all your criteria in and see a ton of horses. I don’t dislike BigEq, and websites like that, it’s just that those horses are a little bit too much/expensive for what I need, and I know I’ll fall in love with one, only to find that they’re way too expensive for me.


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

Do you have videos of this horse going in the hunter ring? It'd help me see it, I guess. $3,000 is a pretty low price for a horse who's done as much as this one has. Or says to have done. 

For me, as someone who rides hunters and jumpers exclusively, I'd much rather a hunter who's got a steady, even pace. Those do much better and you're not constantly nitpicking their stride to get up or down lines. A Jumper, yes, I want to have them very in my hand, but hunters should float - especially at the lower levels. One in the derby ring, or rated levels, yes I want to be able to play with my striding some for things. 

I think I'm just very confused on how to go to schooling shows not at your barn you have to be jumping 2'6" oxers. Typically that is not the purpose for most barns going to schooling shows, very rarely are there limitations put on riders like that. Most barns and trainers I've been with use schooling shows as a way to get younger/inexperienced riders into the show ring. 

I can talk until I'm blue in the face, and really have so far much to the chagrin of most I'm sure, but you have made your decision and seem to be sticking to it. 
You have a big heart, but I will reiterate what I said earlier. Step back and take emotions out of the equation. Riding is a mental sport and you cannot let emotions come into the equation if you want to show and compete. They can be ever present on the ground, at the barn, or out hacking, but if your goal is to show - at whatever level - you have to have a partner who's able to do what you're asking. If this is something you really do want to pursue, and you do have big dreams (which are obtainable if you're willing to work!), starting this mental game now is important.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> Do you have videos of this horse going in the hunter ring? It'd help me see it, I guess. $3,000 is a pretty low price for a horse who's done as much as this one has. Or says to have done.
> 
> For me, as someone who rides hunters and jumpers exclusively, I'd much rather a hunter who's got a steady, even pace. Those do much better and you're not constantly nitpicking their stride to get up or down lines. A Jumper, yes, I want to have them very in my hand, but hunters should float - especially at the lower levels. One in the derby ring, or rated levels, yes I want to be able to play with my striding some for things.
> 
> ...


Hi!!

Yes, his owner sent me some videos of him doing XC, in the jumper ring, and in the hunter ring. It seems like jumper is his style, but he will definitely do hunters.

His price is very low because it owner is really looking to lease out or sell, she told me she was trying to sell him for $7,000 and she got one leaser interested, and her old leaser put him in the wrong size saddle, and the old leaser was a bit on the heavier side, and he had to go through some physical therapy, but this was a while ago. The vet and the physical therapist said that he was good to go, but he couldn’t really jump the heights that the owner was jumping (3’6”-3’9” and higher) so she got a different horse, and is determined to find him a home with a teen (like me) and he can “teach” them, and they can have a horse that they won’t outgrow. She had to lower the price of course, especially since right now, horses are going for very cheap where I am, because of quarantine, and they’re really trying to sell.
My barn is a bit confusing, to join one of their four show teams (hunter/jumper, dressage, show jumping, and eventing) you really need your own horse... if you don’t, you can “rent” one of their upper level (less trained, more green) horses for the show, for a high price, and you’re kind of asking to get hurt. It’s been my dream to join the hunter/jumper show team, and I really don’t want to risk my safety, the horse’s safety, and everyone else’s safety by getting on a dangerous horse. They urge you to have your own horse, whether it be a lease or your own. It’s honestly divided into this for the youth HJ show team:

-18” and mini-stirrup
-2’-2’3” for basically taller 6-11 year olds
-2’6” for short stirrup, which for us is 11-14 years old
-2’9” and over for long stirrup

At our schooling shows (home shows) levels for younger kids in the hunter ring are:

-12”-18” for mini stirrup 
-2’-2’3” for short stirrup 
-2’6” for long stirrup 

And for the jumper ring at our home shows:

-2’-2’3”
-2’6”
-2’6”-2’9”
-3’
-3’3-3’6”
-3’9”+

So I kind of need a horse who can go in the hunter ring and jump 2’6”, because I don’t really want to risk everybody’s safety by hopping on an “advanced” (green, less trained) horse.

That actually is a big problem with me. I’m really emotional, especially with animals. I actually have a disorder (I prefer not to talk about it) but it’s a nervous system disorder and it makes me really, REALLY emotional. It’s not something I love to talk about, but I feel like it’s important to tell Equestrians, because I do get the “just get over it, stop being so stupid.” A lot, and I’m like “I have a disorder” and they think it’s a lame excuse, but I don’t use it as an excuse, and I should be able to control my emotions, but I do tend to get very emotional with horses, and fall in love easily.


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> natasha06 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, totally forgot to say this in the other post!
> ...



Just saw your ETA!!! Thank you so much!! I really would love to go to pony finals!! I actually have a dream board covered with pony finals all over it, and the OTTB of course, he is a dream.

Although I would LOVE to go to pony finals, I’m scared of what people would think/say. I do look a little bit on the heavier side (even though I’m a healthy weight for my age), and I don’t know what people would say if I got on a pony... nobody from my barn has gone to pony finals, but I was looking at a great HJ barn super close to me that helps riders with lease/own horses get to shows like that! Do you think that I should switch barns to them? My barn is considered a “beginner” barn... I really value your opinion, because you seem really educated. Do you think I should make the switch?


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## Interstellar (Feb 15, 2020)

I'm gunna send you a PM - it'll be easier that way for me to see replies since I get emails for those lol


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## natasha06 (Apr 14, 2020)

Interstellar said:


> I'm gunna send you a PM - it'll be easier that way for me to see replies since I get emails for those lol


Awesome! Thank you!! Just responded! 🙂


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