# AQHA/APHA



## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

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AKPaintLover said:


> I am seeing more and more apha horses being advertised as aqha. How is this? I emailed aqha, and they responded that under no circumstances could paint horses be registered aqha. So I don't get it...why am I seeing this all over lately?



Maybe an increased amount of dislexic :roll: (sp) sellers?


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

funny  But people have clearly added AQHA to their registries of their APHA horses. I have seen it a lot with APHA stallions on equine.com....

Are people just being dishonest?
Has the studbook opened up?
Is there some loophole in registry?
Is it some working trick?

I just don't get it.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I went to equine.com and looked at a few of these. I don't know why people list them APHA/AQHA, but for the ones that I looked at, in the 'Horse Details' section, all had either AQHA or APHA in the 'Registration', but none had both. Perhaps people are just trying to draw people to their ads.
I'm a member of the APHA and I know there have been no changes, and I'm sure the AQHA hasn't changed either. Both still have their parent breed + color requirements.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Funny people are doing that huh?

I find it rather dishonest, unless I am missing something in the registries.


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## Gingerrrrr (Feb 12, 2008)

i just saw a horse registered with both the aqha and the apha and the horse was a quarter horse.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

Sounds like dishonesty. Maybe more letters = more money! I mean if someone doesn't know what they are looking at and never inted to use the papers...It may seem like a good thing. :roll:


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## LuvMyPaint (Apr 26, 2008)

There was a change in the rulebook for both registries... it was about a year ago or so?

The AQHA changed it's white rule (they actually got rid of it). Now any foal can be registered with them, no matter how much white comes out on it. If you can verify parentage... a lot of Paint owners are dual registering their crop out Paints with the AQHA.

Because of the AQHA rule... the APHA changed it's rules. Now a horse can only be registered as long as 1 parent is a Paint. So no more crop outs.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I think those changes may be more than a year old, but looking at the AQHA rulebook, yes, you can register a horse with white marking in the AQHA if you can DNA verify parentage (and the parents must still be in the acceptable registries), but the AQHA still considers it an 'undesireable trait' and is so noted on the certificate.
As for the APHA, I'm pretty sure the one Paint parent rule has been there at least 3 years...we bought our first Paint about 3 years ago and I remember actually reading the rulebook back then. I looked at the rulebook this morning and didn't see anything different.
The bottom line, though, is that you're right that there are a lot of dual registered Paint/QHs.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

PaintHorseMares said:


> I think those changes may be more than a year old, but looking at the aqha rulebook, yes, you can register a horse with white marking in the aqha if you can DNA verify parentage (and the parents must still be in the acceptable registries), but the aqha still considers it an 'undesireable trait' and is so noted on the certificate.
> As for the apha, I'm pretty sure the one Paint parent rule has been there at least 3 years...we bought our first Paint about 3 years ago and I remember actually reading the rulebook back then. I looked at the rulebook this morning and didn't see anything different.
> The bottom line, though, is that you're right that there are a lot of dual registered Paint/QHs.


cool info! I still wonder why aqha e-mailed back sayin' "no paints" ???

That can be very confusing!


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## steffanicgirl (May 4, 2008)

The lady I bought my BS paint filly from has a couple dual registered, but I never thought to ask how that happened since I only ever have had AQHA! I'll have to email her and ask, maybe I can get an answer - it's possible they are registered just as broodmares or stallions??? Who knows, registries are so confusing!


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

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Dumas'_Grrrl said:


> AKPaintLover said:
> 
> 
> > I am seeing more and more apha horses being advertised as aqha. How is this? I emailed aqha, and they responded that under no circumstances could paint horses be registered aqha. So I don't get it...why am I seeing this all over lately?
> ...


youre too funny :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## horsey*kisses (May 12, 2008)

thats interesting, my horse is registered with the apha and he is a quarter horse but only part, he's a solid paint...which is weird but...an ariabian and throughbred...crazy if you asked me lol
and how can a horse be registered two times? thats kind of like having two social security #'s isn't it?


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

horsey*kisses said:


> and how can a horse be registered two times? thats kind of like having two social security #'s isn't it?


That's funny...I never really thought of it that way. 

So it sounds like AQHA was accurate in their email back to me..they were adament about horses to be registered must have QH, approved JC, or appendix QH parents. Crop outs would fit into this rule.

I want to go back to equine.com and look at some of the dual registered horses to see if they have two QH parents - if not, that is dishonesty. The number of dual regitered that I am seeing is very high - are crop outs really that common?

How does a crop out occur?


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

LOL, that is pretty funny. :lol:

Hmm, that's a bit odd, though.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

LOL..that's the business of the big breeders that control the registries, IMHO.
For example, what IS the difference between a QH and a Solid Paint? Although a purist may say I'm wrong (and that's OK), I *think* the only real difference is the registry of the parents....(registered) Paints and QHs are only so named because of the rule books.

BTW, my gut would think that crop outs are common...isn't it just standard recessive gene genetics?


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

http://www.honeybearfarm.com/PaintHorsesAppendixReg.htm
I found this...
http://www.honeybearfarm.com/HBFIronMan_Frame.htm
Pedigree
http://qhd.com/horse/stallion.asp?id=16694
^^more

I've been seeing it too...


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

horsey*kisses said:


> how can a horse be registered two times? thats kind of like having two social security #'s isn't it?


My stallion I bought from Minnesota, so he's registred with the Arabian Horse Association (AHA - American), Canadian Arabian Horse Registry (CAHR).

I've got two mares that registered with Canadian Arabian Horse Registry and soon to be registred with the Sabino Arabian Horse Registy, so they will be double registered as well.

With Arabians, they can be registered with more than one registry if they've got all the paperwork to meet all the requirements.

I'm not 100% on the whole AQHA rules and stuff, but I do know that they have a lot of things with their registry that I thought were voted in on a monday, such as allowing a horse with thoroughbred background on it's immediate pedigree to be registered with AQHA.

It's supposed to be for purebreds, but if there's thoroughbred right there, how is it purebred? :shock: That could never happen with an Arabian horse.

And bloodtyping straight from the get go, like CAHR does, would really benefit the breeder's of AQHA horses as well as ensure that there is no paper-swaping with horses. My sister bought a "Registered" AQHA mare but when she foaled and had to be DNA tested to registered the baby, turns out it wasn't her paper's even though the markings matched. Again, something that would never happen with an Arabian.

Just seems that they could make the whole process easier if they re-considered how they did a few things.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

WS Arabians, I see what you mean...I suppose for almost any breed other than arabians though, they are only so purebred...most breeds are som mix or another, it just depends if the mix is approved by the breed association enough to be "purebred" of that breed. 

Supermane, that is interesting about HBF Iron Man...He does not have two QH parents, so how does he register with AQHA?? I may have missed the explanation if they gave it. How is he different than my colt out of a QH mare and a Paint stallion that allows him to be registered in both?


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## LuvMyPaint (Apr 26, 2008)

AKPaintLover said:


> WS Arabians, I see what you mean...I suppose for almost any breed other than arabians though, they are only so purebred...most breeds are som mix or another, it just depends if the mix is approved by the breed association enough to be "purebred" of that breed.
> 
> Supermane, that is interesting about HBF Iron Man...He does not have two qh parents, so how does he register with aqha?? I may have missed the explanation if they gave it. How is he different than my colt out of a qh mare and a Paint stallion that allows him to be registered in both?


AQHA allows horses of QH or TB descent to be registered... HBF Iron Man - if you look a bit back in his pedigree on his sire's side - Bear Cat is a crop out QH. WIthout Bear Cat being registered as a Paint, First In Command would have been a registered QH right off the bat. And since the dam of HBF Iron Man is a TB... it would mean he was Appendix.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Thanks


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## LuvMyPaint (Apr 26, 2008)

Your welcome!  I'm still trying to learn all of this pedigree stuff, but I love it. It's so interesting!

I looked up my Paint on allbreedpedigree and followed it back to the 1700's! That was neat... even though most of them all have the same lines. :lol:


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I believe that both the AQHA and APHA allow breeding with (registered) TBs to let 'new genes' into the gene pool. There has been so much line breeding in the horse world that I think this is genetically a good thing. If you look at the Paint/QH pedigrees, they typically trace back to TBs and then Arabians (way back).


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

That makes sense. Horse history is so interesting.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

I think its more of people thinking that the horse's sire or dam are a quarter and one is a paint so that makes it okay for the foal to be a Quarter or a Paint.


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

My gelding was AQHA/APHA registered. He was a solid Paint and his momma is AQHA registered and his daddy is APHA/AQHA registered so he was able to be double registered.


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

Harlee rides horses said:


> I think its more of people thinking that the horse's sire or dam are a quarter and one is a paint so that makes it okay for the foal to be a Quarter or a Paint.


Well the baby IS a quarterhorse/paint if mom and dad are APHA or AQHA registered.


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

PaintHorseMares said:


> I believe that both the aqha and apha allow breeding with (registered) TBs to let 'new genes' into the gene pool. There has been so much line breeding in the horse world that I think this is genetically a good thing. If you look at the Paint/qh pedigrees, they typically trace back to TBs and then Arabians (way back).


No. AQHA requires blood testing and will not allow registration of a foal that isn't the product of two AQHA registered parents.


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## LuvMyPaint (Apr 26, 2008)

irisheyes12 said:


> PaintHorseMares said:
> 
> 
> > I believe that both the aqha and apha allow breeding with (registered) TBs to let 'new genes' into the gene pool. There has been so much line breeding in the horse world that I think this is genetically a good thing. If you look at the Paint/qh pedigrees, they typically trace back to TBs and then Arabians (way back).
> ...


Is that a new rule? I know someone with an Appendix gelding that is 3 years old... he's out of a QH sire and TB dam. They have to be registered in the Appendix registry, but if they earn enough points they can make it into the regular registry.


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

LuvMyPaint said:


> irisheyes12 said:
> 
> 
> > PaintHorseMares said:
> ...


I think it was November 2007 that the rule went into affect along with blood testing but it may have been a bit sooner.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

These are the AQHA rules. I dont see any up coming rule changes other then the Impressive descendants.

http://www.aqha.com/association/registration/pdf/registrationrules_08.pdf

In fact, something I did'nt know before is that an Appendix QH can be changed to a REGULAR registry if it earns an ROM... Interesting.


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> These are the aqha rules. I dont see any up coming rule changes other then the Impressive descendants.
> 
> http://www.aqha.com/association/registration/pdf/registrationrules_08.pdf
> 
> In fact, something I did'nt know before is that an Appendix qh can be changed to a REGULAR registry if it earns an ROM... Interesting.


I don't think that should be allowed since the horse isn't a purebred Quarter Horse personally. Did anyone attend the AQHA show in Cleamson, SC last week?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Not me... You? I had no idea you could do that... change it to a regular QH... I did finally pull up that MD stud you listed. I liked him, gonna e-mail them to ask about his demeanor.


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## irisheyes12 (May 19, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> Not me... You? I had no idea you could do that... change it to a regular qh... I did finally pull up that MD stud you listed. I liked him, gonna e-mail them to ask about his demeanor.


Yeah that stud is from a very well know AQHA/APHA farm and he puts very nice, correct babies on the ground. No, I didn't make it to Clemson I was up in Maryland visiting family. They had a big thing about Appendix's VS. Purebreds I heard though.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

would have been interesting.


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## notorious_ (Apr 25, 2008)

The reason someone would write AQHA on a paint horse is because when you search up horses for sale/stud... often times you select a breed. they choose that breed because everyone thinks of paints and quarter horses as the same thing. so they just throw them both in there.

if you're seeing people talking about they are REGISTERED under aqha when the horse has markings outside of the designated areas then the owners are obviously lying, i would love to question one about it! haha.


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## LuvMyPaint (Apr 26, 2008)

notorious_ said:


> if you're seeing people talking about they are REGISTERED under aqha when the horse has markings outside of the designated areas then the owners are obviously lying, i would love to question one about it! haha.


That's not right... Both registries have underwent some changes. The AQHA threw out it's white ruling and the APHA is no longer accepting horses unless they have at least ONE registered Paint parent.

Now Quarter Horses that would have been registered as crop out Paints are registered in the AQHA. They are no longer allowed in the APHA.


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## notorious_ (Apr 25, 2008)

LuvMyPaint said:


> notorious_ said:
> 
> 
> > if you're seeing people talking about they are REGISTERED under aqha when the horse has markings outside of the designated areas then the owners are obviously lying, i would love to question one about it! haha.
> ...



thats very interesting. i didn't know that.

but do you know why people are saying that there paints are registered as BOTH?


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## LuvMyPaint (Apr 26, 2008)

notorious_ said:


> LuvMyPaint said:
> 
> 
> > notorious_ said:
> ...


It is interesting... I think it's creating a lot of confusion. :? You won't be able to just guess anymore if a horse is a Paint or QH. The colored one could be the QH now and the solid a Paint. :wink: 

They can be dual registered if the parentage has been verified. I think as long as the original crop out Paint can be DNA tested his subsequent offspring from QH mares can be registered with the AQHA and the APHA

Say you have a 10 year old stallion from 2 QH parents that had too much white. He was registered with the APHA as a crop out. Now since the rules have changed... the owners can get him DNA tested (I believe the sire and dam would be too?) and then registered in the AQHA.

So now... while he was a stud if he was bred to any QH mares and had foals that were registered as Paints they can be registered as QH now too... Does that make any sense?


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## LuvMyPaint (Apr 26, 2008)

Here's an example of a horse that could have been dual registered... only he can't because the original crop outs are long gone...

This is my gelding's pedigree
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/eyes+a+cocomo

If you look back on the sire's side Far Ute El Rey and Far Ute Tinkett were both crop outs. If this rule had been changed back then my guy would have been a QH


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