# Bridleless! :D



## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

Does anyone on here go bridleless?! Post on here please!


I wish I can :/

Thanks for posting!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

This video is old, but I don't have any more recent ones.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I am doing bridleless with my gelding now. Matter of fact, I tried doing a video on my phone but I don't know how to get it off of my phone to my computer. It just shows it as a picture instead of a video....I know nothing about phones and computers...I am lucky I can get on here at all....


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I am doing bridleless with my gelding now. Matter of fact, I tried doing a video on my phone but I don't know how to get it off of my phone to my computer. It just shows it as a picture instead of a video....I know nothing about phones and computers...I am lucky I can get on here at all....


 If you send a text of the video to your email address, you can open and save it from your computer's email.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

After I'm done riding my horse.. I pull all of his tack off and put him in a rope halter. He loooooves it. One day I'll get above a walk but not until my seat improves and his confidence improves 

You should try it! What I did to transition was put his halter underneath his bridle.. use the bridle first and then tuck the reins and then use the halter for cues.


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## kayleeloveslaneandlana (Apr 10, 2011)

I have been going bareback without a bridle for with a few horses everyday now. I will try to get a video when I do it on my horse! I find it very relaxing and you just feel so amazing with the trust ind the horse. I think you should try it some time! You can always just put a rope around your horses neck when you first start.


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## xXHorseKissesXx (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't, but a few of my friends do, they do "Parelli" or Natural Horsemanship with their horses. Anyone can do it tho! It's fun


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> If you send a text of the video to your email address, you can open and save it from your computer's email.


I tried that, but it said the file was too big, I tried to email it too:evil:


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

Equiniphile, or anyone else, how do i get into this parelli program? i really wanna try it.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I tried that, but it said the file was too big, I tried to email it too:evil:


Hmm, if you can find the right cable then that would get it off of the phone. Can you forward it to another cellphone?


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I ride my horses with halters or leadropes around their necks all the time....just don't have any footage of it... yet. Except the short snippet in this video:


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I should go back to working with her and see if I can't get her improved. That video's a little embarrassing to post now.


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## nicole25 (Jun 24, 2011)

My gelding would have a field day with me if we ever tried this. Now that it is winter we do a lot of bareback riding with just a halter and lead though.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

I ride my horse mostly with a rope halter and a leadrope, and sometimes also tackless.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

whispering willow said:


> Equiniphile, or anyone else, how do i get into this parelli program? i really wanna try it.


 I don't do any Parelli; I have some controversal opinions about their methods. Being able to ride bridleless is nothing more than a result of good, solid training. If the horse has a good foundation (you can use your seat and legs to completely control the horse) and the right attitude, you can take the bridle off without any fireworks.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Hmm, if you can find the right cable then that would get it off of the phone. Can you forward it to another cellphone?


 Sorry for the double post.

If you go to your phone store, they should be able to sell you a cable with a USB port that you can use to move files right on to your computer.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Not something I'd do on a trail ride. I won't ride in a knotted halter. My concern is if there is any pulling on the rope, the knots will deaden the nerves as there is little muscle and no fat. At first I tho't knotted halters were great but not so sure any more. We used to find knotless rope halters worked quite well with no risk of nerve damage.


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## christabelle (Feb 13, 2011)

I'd be interested to see if it is possible to hack out on a trail bitless (and spur less). *note* I would never try it, my horses are naughty by nature. I'm pretty sure I could get them to do it in an arena... Eventually... Maybe...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

whispering willow said:


> Does anyone on here go bridless?! Post on here please!
> 
> 
> I wish I can :/
> ...


I do bridleless lessons on my horse once a week. Don't have a vid yet, but here are some pics. These were taken at the jog. I show WP and HMS, and the bridleless schooling really helps ME...to be independent with my seat and legs, and not rely hand.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

GotaDunQH,

I totally agree, that is one reason why I started doing it. You find your "holes" pretty fast!

Equiniphile and SkysEternalAngel,

I am going to get a cable today and see if them people can explain to me how to do it....I hate that my phone is smarter than me....lol.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> GotaDunQH,
> 
> I totally agree, that is one reason why I started doing it. *You find your "holes" pretty fast!*
> 
> ...


yep you do! You realize how much your hands can help OR hinder you!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Great pics GottaDunQH *and welcome to HF, glad to have you here* Thanks for sharing, and making a point about how much our hands have become a "hinderance". 

Riding should be Seat into Legs into Hands - but soooooo many ride Hands first and then the rest might come after. I think the bridleless riding is a fabulous idea, and a great tool to show many riders who reliant they have become on their hands, when they should be looking for and relying on their seat and their legs.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i have put on some cutting horse clinics with nothing on their head,mainly to show people that you communicate more with your body language and your legs,instead of your hands.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

^^ That's great!

I was able to audit a David O'Connor Clinic eons ago, where he got on one of the riders horses. On a loose rein, he was able to control the horses speed all through his seat and legs It was a great eye opener. 

He was able to bring the horse from a hand gallop, to a canter. From a canter to a trot and so on and so on. 

Seat into Legs into Hands.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

mie,i am glad you understand the difference between sitting and riding.and some people have been riding for years.but take some of their reins away and they are lost. keep in touch


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## Fargosgirl (Jan 12, 2012)

I hack out in a basic rope halter(no nose band knots) and my horse is fine, in fact I started him and haven't bothered to put a bit in his mouth yet since he is so responsive to the halter. Of course when I start wanting more refinement from him he will have to go into a bridle. Last summer I finally took the halter off too and rode in my round pen, then in the arena. It was a great feeling because in the beginning I had so many trust issues with this horse and now we have established such good communication I don't need reins.
I am in the Parelli program and one of the things I've learned from it is not HOW to ride bridleless, but instead WHEN it is safe to do so.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

thats great,and your right,the trust has to be there.a horse can sense when your nervous,and it usually makes him nervous.in all my clinics and lessons i use the phrase,climb on with confidence,not with arrogance


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Not something I'd do on a trail ride. I won't ride in a knotted halter. My concern is if there is any pulling on the rope, the knots will deaden the nerves as there is little muscle and no fat. At first I tho't knotted halters were great but not so sure any more. We used to find knotless rope halters worked quite well with no risk of nerve damage.


That's a good perspective.. I'll seek one out!


I'm really interested in riding without hand. I used to ride without hand but then my horse never stayed on the rail. But I really want to try with a halter and then one day without anything. Or maybe I'll ride without anything once a week w/t and see how we do. Just have to be careful because the boarders love to leave all the gates open.. even if you close them, they open them again :/


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

well sky,when you ride without a bridle or with one,you and your horse has to respond to leg pressure commands.thats how you guide him.


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## kjr5horses (Dec 21, 2011)

*Bridle-less/tack-less & Parelli*

Hello  

Parelli is a good place to start, I do *not *agree with all of their methods but *some *of them are great. 

I would recommend reading Dancing With Horses and The Horse Seeks Me, its all great information and training for *both *the _horse _and _rider_.

On bridle-less riding and tackless riding. Yes anyone can do it on a well trained horse. But you should be able to do it through trust (In the horse and the horse's trust in you) without or with very little training. 

I ride my four year old paint tackless and she has only been ridden a dozen times. 

Yes training is great and very useful but you also need the right relationship with the horse.

If your afraid your horse will run off, what does it matter? Its a 1000lbs animal if they want to run off they will do it with tack or without. And there is nothing you can do about it except going with them. 

Just my two cents.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I use to ride my cousins horse sometimes in the field with out bridle


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## Fargosgirl (Jan 12, 2012)

> I would recommend reading Dancing With Horses and The Horse Seeks Me, its all great information and training for *both *the _horse _and _rider_.
> 
> Yes training is great and very useful but you also need the right relationship with the horse.
> 
> If your afraid your horse will run off, what does it matter? Its a 1000lbs animal if they want to run off they will do it with tack or without. And there is nothing you can do about it except going with them.



​

I agree with kjr5horses, I started learning to ride tackless from the two books she mentioned written by Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling on my older "bomb proof horse" and carried over what I had learned from my Hempfling books to Parelli when I started that program with my new skittish horse.

Another book I highly recommend to anyone who wants to learn about liberty ground work and bridleless riding is Gallop To Freedom by Fredrick Pignon and Magali Delgado.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> That's a good perspective.. I'll seek one out!
> 
> 
> I'm really interested in riding without hand.* I used to ride without hand but then my horse never stayed on the rail. *But I really want to try with a halter and then one day without anything. Or maybe I'll ride without anything once a week w/t and see how we do. Just have to be careful because the boarders love to leave all the gates open.. even if you close them, they open them again :/


That's when you use your inside leg to "shut the door" and put them back on the rail. When my trainer gives me a bridleless lesson, we walk, jog, lope, do serpentines, circles, weave in and out of cones in a long line, stops, backups, and 360's etc. My horse responds to all of it....from my seat and leg. The back-ups are hard, but he will back with just a big strong squeeze from my calves.

Definitely start at the walk and trot Skye. You can start about by just totally dropping the reins...get your horse to turn etc. Then move up to the lope/canter, then go to a halter, then bridleless. Let me know how it goes!


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

kjr5horses said:


> Hello
> 
> Parelli is a good place to start, I do *not *agree with all of their methods but *some *of them are great.
> 
> ...


Not quite so sure I agree with the bold...training is everything. If your horse does not respond to your leg, you WILL have issues that have NOTHING to do with trust. It's all in the horse being trained to the aids. Anyone who knows how to use leg and seat correctly...could ride my horse bridleless without even having a relationship with him.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i agree gota dun,training is everything.my question is why a 4 yr old only has a few rides on it?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

rob said:


> well sky,when you ride without a bridle or with one,you and your horse has to respond to leg pressure commands.thats how you guide him.


Oh yes I understand that. We just have a long way to go. He's getting better at responding to pressure and I'm getting better at shifting my weight and using pressure properly  He has trouble staying on the rail as a rule at the moment. He's getting better since I am learning how to keep him there 



GotaDunQH said:


> That's when you use your inside leg to "shut the door" and put them back on the rail. When my trainer gives me a bridleless lesson, we walk, jog, lope, do serpentines, circles, weave in and out of cones in a long line, stops, backups, and 360's etc. My horse responds to all of it....from my seat and leg. The back-ups are hard, but he will back with just a big strong squeeze from my calves.
> 
> Definitely start at the walk and trot Skye. You can start about by just totally dropping the reins...get your horse to turn etc. Then move up to the lope/canter, then go to a halter, then bridleless. Let me know how it goes!


I will! Thanks for the tip!


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

good attitude sky,just keep working on it and keep us informed of your progress.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Of course I will  May even start a thread. I have one of those member journals tracking Sky and I's progress with cantering and whatnot.
~~

Cowchick, have you figured out how to get the video uploaded? I'm so curious to see it!


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

I do on my three year old, after i lunge him i jump on and we run around. also my QH ill jump on and he will walk around.


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## kjr5horses (Dec 21, 2011)

"my question is why a 4 yr old only has a few rides on it?"




I have her in her own special program. I wanted her to be able to do everything on the ground and at liberty *before *getting on her. She can do more than any other four year old I know. I've ridden her a dozen times or so now, and Ill tell you getting on her tack-less first was the best way to go as well as learning everything on the ground first and getting her to collect. 
Our relationship is stronger and she already knew everything without using anything but my seat/position. 

Just because a horse is 4 doesn't mean they have to be ridden a hundred and one times to be a 'good horse' or a 'well trained horse'. I can stop my horse by merely shifting my position slightly, and stop her from running off or spooking because she trusts me. And this is all done without anything on her except me. 

I have ridden her in a saddle once and I see no use for a bit, except I will get her used to it just because it will be good for her but I will not use the reins for anything that I don't need to.

The real question is, _why ask a question like that and make it sound like its a bad thing that she isn't ridden as much as your four year olds or four year olds you know? 

_I was merely trying to give her good ideas and tools that can help her achieve her goals.

Oh and by the way the Spanish Riding School of Vienna start riding their horses at *5. *_(That and horses generally stop growing _at *5*)


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i didnt mean to sound like i was doubting you,and i did not want to offend you,i was just wondering because here in america we dont wait that long.


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## kjr5horses (Dec 21, 2011)

No problem. I live in Texas, some us do....well us that have thought of it and have decided to wait do it. 

Why do you ride your horse at two because its popular to do so? Riding them that young could (At least this is what I believe) cause leg and back issues later on since they are not done growing and developing physically.


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## DejaVu (Jul 6, 2011)

I do. 

Like said, it really is an eye opener to how much you use your hands.

I try to put myself in the mindset of no bridle, even when it's on, and my gelding is really all about the leg now, which I love.

Bridleless really improves his overall attitude, as well as gives him something new every now and then.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Sky...I tried it again and it still uploaded as a pic instead of a video. I also tried another one today with my digital camera, it takes videos for up to 30 minutes, and it was very choppy and out of focus. 

*Big sigh*....modern technology and I don't mix well....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Sky...I tried it again and it still uploaded as a pic instead of a video. I also tried another one today with my digital camera, it takes videos for up to 30 minutes, and it was very choppy and out of focus.
> 
> *Big sigh*....modern technology and I don't mix well....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Darn  well maybe one day I'll get to see it!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I drop bridle on my reiners quite often. It is a great way to work them and get out of their way.

Bridleless riding is the nothing more then the end results of good training.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

nrhareiner said:


> Bridleless riding is the nothing more then the end results of good training.


That's a really good way of looking at it! 

Looks like I have a lot more training to do :wink:


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Darn  well maybe one day I'll get to see it!


I am going to get it! I knew that the camera wasn't going to make a good video...I tried videoing my husbands ranch rodeos..and it hasn't worked well.

Also, I think Stacey Westfall has a video for going bridleless...I haven't seen it, but it might offer some tips for those who are wanting to advance that way.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

My therapist said I should ride this way to improve my 
balance issues


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I am going to get it! I knew that the camera wasn't going to make a good video...I tried videoing my husbands ranch rodeos..and it hasn't worked well.
> 
> Also, I think Stacey Westfall has a video for going bridleless...I haven't seen it, but it might offer some tips for those who are wanting to advance that way.


I hope so! It was fun seeing smrobs work with her horses and I learned a few things too 

I'm not sure my instructor would be on board me going completely bridle less but I want to give it a whirl on a few schooling days when I have the barn to myself.

But good point, I'll look her up.



Country Woman said:


> My therapist said I should ride this way to improve my
> balance issues


Yes and confidence/focus of both horse and rider!


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

you see my right side of my body is weaker than my 
left due to an injury I received as a baby


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Country Woman said:


> you see my right side of my body is weaker than my
> left due to an injury I received as a baby


Then horse riding without hands will definitely help you with that! 

I can tell you 2-point without reins should be a good goal for me as I tend to lean on the reins sometimes.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I also enjoy riding bareback its good for my legs


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

I started going bridless over 35 years ago. Started when I thought about how at times cattle would get out and I'd have to grab some twin off a bale of hay, loop it round my QH mares neck and ride her barebacked to round up the lose cattle. Suddenly it didn't make sense to have to deal with a bridle and bit on a horse that reined beautifully and did everything needed with nothing but neck and foot commands (she never knew a leg pressure command in her life). I don't think any of my horses after that minded not have a bridle or bit. Didn't know about bitless bridles back then, but I've been giving them serious thought since they look nicer then just the halter . (I know I didn't just say that it matters how it looks after all these years :lol. I guess a nice leather halter just isn't quite as normal looking when riding anymore (and I'm getting soft in the head :lol

Don't have any video, but here's a picture from last month of the mare I'm training. This month she graduated from the rope halter to a regular nylon one. Started her in Oct and she's coming along nicely. I've certainly never minded not having to deal with getting them to take a bit anymore and I doubt that the horses minded either :lol:. One less thing to deal with from my perspective.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i am sorry for the mis-understanding.but when i ride or work a horse bridleless,i dont have anything on their neck or head.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I can ride Selena bridleless on a good day, but I don't trust her enough to really, really try to get something out of her until she's had a bit more training. I do have a video but its not very exciting....it's just us walking around. I'll post it when I get on better wifi.

Jester however I can ride bridleless. He's just a good ol' boy though, and was super willing, always was good about going off legs and had a good, secure "whoa" so I felt safe enough to try it.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

rob said:


> i am sorry for the mis-understanding.but when i ride or work a horse bridleless,i dont have anything on their neck or head.


Nothing wrong with that either. It's all about getting the results you want and if it works, then go for it. I'll never say that doing it with less isn't great.


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

Your horse is beatiful its lbs not miles! He's so gorgous!!


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

whispering willow said:


> Your horse is beatiful its lbs not miles! He's so gorgous!!


Not sure if you're talking about the mare (I'm riding) or the filly (the profile picture), but thanks. (probably the filly, since you can't really see the mare's face).


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

well their both beautiful? lol


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

its lbs not miles said:


> Not sure if you're talking about the mare (I'm riding) or the filly (the profile picture), but thanks. (probably the filly, since you can't really see the mare's face).


is the mare you are riding a Freisian


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

They're both 1/2 Friesian. Friesian/Saddlebred. 
They take a lot after they sires, so grooming can be time consuming :lol:.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I thought so


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## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

I can't find all my others, for some reason...

But these are a couple that I took off Facebook, from a while ago (first one last winter, other this summer).

I'm hoping to get better at it, and work at it more with all the horses this summer, and be able to do circles and turns/rollbacks and lead changes and stuff...we've got work to do.


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## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

Complimentary bump? Bridleless, I say! More bridleless!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

its lbs not miles said:


> I started going bridless over 35 years ago. Started when I thought about how at times cattle would get out and I'd have to grab some twin off a bale of hay, loop it round my QH mares neck and ride her barebacked to round up the lose cattle. Suddenly it didn't make sense to have to deal with a bridle and bit on a horse that reined beautifully and did everything needed with nothing but neck and foot commands (she never knew a leg pressure command in her life). I don't think any of my horses after that minded not have a bridle or bit. Didn't know about bitless bridles back then, but I've been giving them serious thought since they look nicer then just the halter . (I know I didn't just say that it matters how it looks after all these years :lol. I guess a nice leather halter just isn't quite as normal looking when riding anymore (and I'm getting soft in the head :lol
> 
> Don't have any video, but here's a picture from last month of the mare I'm training. This month she graduated from the rope halter to a regular nylon one. Started her in Oct and she's coming along nicely. I've certainly never minded not having to deal with getting them to take a bit anymore and I doubt that the horses minded either :lol:. One less thing to deal with from my perspective.


While I have no problems with riding bitless I do have a big problem with people who do not train a horse to a bit. Be it first or second. Every horse needs to learn to go in a bit. What if you sell your horses? The next person may wish or need to ride with a bit. In the end you are doing your horse a diservice by not training then with a bit also. Even if you may never use it past that much.


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## xEquestrianx (Aug 30, 2009)

I loooove it  I ride with no tack a lot actually. I think it helps build a good seat and connection with your horse. 
Cheyenne can be such a brat, but whenever we're like that, she'll always do her nice lope for me


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

nrhareiner said:


> While I have no problems with riding bitless I do have a big problem with people who do not train a horse to a bit. Be it first or second. Every horse needs to learn to go in a bit. What if you sell your horses? The next person may wish or need to ride with a bit. In the end you are doing your horse a diservice by not training then with a bit also. Even if you may never use it past that much.


I've sold two horses in my lifetime and the buyers were happy to get them with the training they had and keep them bitless and unshod. One was a working horse for cattle and was trained to be hunted off of too. The buyer was an old friend I went to high school with and he'd been trying to buy her for 10 years. The other went to a local family who wanted her because she was trained without a bit and unshod.

Besides, selling one of my horses trained to work without a bit to anyone who might use one (or resell to someone who would) is out of the question. I've gone over 31 years without training a single horse to the bit. I did train to the bit for about 3 years, but stopped and loved the change in the horses. They work beautifully and I couldn't deal with the idea that they could ever have a bit in their mouth and the potential for someone with heavy hands at the reins.
Not happening. Not to my horses. Just like I would never sell to anyone who would put a shoe on the horse. I knew the people I sold to and even then it took a lot for me to part with the horses. I actually gave away the one to my old classmate, because I know she'd get more use (she was a working horse) since I was riding less.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

its lbs not miles said:


> Besides, selling one of my horses trained to work without a bit to anyone who might use one (or resell to someone who would) is out of the question. I've gone over 31 years without training a single horse to the bit. I did train to the bit for about 3 years, but stopped and loved the change in the horses. They work beautifully and I couldn't deal with the idea that they could ever have a bit in their mouth and the potential for someone with heavy hands at the reins.
> Not happening. Not to my horses. Just like I would never sell to anyone who would put a shoe on the horse. I knew the people I sold to and even then it took a lot for me to part with the horses. I actually gave away the one to my old classmate, because I know she'd get more use (she was a working horse) since I was riding less.


 
Your horse, your choice, but this is absolutely ridiculous. Because shoes and bits are so inherently abusive and all (and because barefoot automatically equates to quality hoof care, and because there's no way to bloody a horse's nose up riding in a rope halter). God forbid your horse ever suffer a soft tissue injury and need therapeutic farriery to relieve the pressure if there's to be any hope of recovery....


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

See that is the flaw in that type of thinking. I can be just heavy handed with a bitless bridle as I can with a bit. Bits are not bad they are not the problem. It is the hands on the othe side of the reins. 

Also shoes are not bad or evil either. I could not do what I do with my horses with out shoes. Again if you can do with out great but do not make shoes bit spurs evil. Just like Guns. Non of these things are bad. It is only in the way people may use them that make them such.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Yuppies. I ride in a rope halter as much as I can, except when doing dressage. I also have a lightrider bitless bridle, but I have had the most success in just a plain ole' rope halter.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Your horse, your choice, but this is absolutely ridiculous. Because shoes and bits are so inherently abusive and all (and because barefoot automatically equates to quality hoof care, and because there's no way to bloody a horse's nose up riding in a rope halter). God forbid your horse ever suffer a soft tissue injury and need therapeutic farriery to relieve the pressure if there's to be any hope of recovery....


 
No more riculous than people thinking that a bit will give them control, or restricting a normal hoof with a nailed in steel shoe is good for it. I've been unshod for 40 years and bitless for at least 31. I've seen a hoof that needed a shoe (a hoof in a very ugly condition) and if one of mine ever had an injury that required that they'd special hoof support, but as soon as it was healed they'd be back to where they are now. That's not sufficient reason for me to say having a horse shod is good.

You are free to nail in shoes and put curbed bits in your horses mouth if you like. Just like people are fee to believe that medical science is wrong about the effects of smoking and keep smoking :lol:, or that racing horses at two years before their joints have finish firming is not harmful. My late great uncle never believed that man never went to the moon (and there was less evidence against what he believed :lol

Of course 40 years ago we didn't have the wealth of information that has is available today. Just used common since. Came across the following today and a LOT of this I DIDN'T know about 40 years ago, but glad I made the right choice.

The Horse's Hoof: Listing of the Harmful Effects of Shoeing


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Just tell that to the millions of sound shod horses and the countless veterinarians and farriers who have extensively researched hoof biomechanics and designed shoeing techniques accordingly. I have nothing against barefoot. I have a barefoot horse. But when she developed a nasty hoof crack this past summer, we nailed front shoes on her. And guess what? The crack, which had been spreading and expanding no matter what we did, grew out. Just pulled her shoes again yesterday. Still sound. Hasn't died from circulation problems yet...

Point is, some horses need shoes, while probably most don't. At the same time, properly applied shows can help a horse that needs help and are extremely unlikely to do any damage. A responsible owner chooses the best option for the individual horse, rather than getting stuck on a single philosophy and ignoring all scientific evidence to the contrary.

Oh, and no, bits don't control horses. Neither do halters. Why have anything on the head at all? I think that's what this thread was about, anyway: _bridleless_, not _bitless_.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

its lbs not miles said:


> No more riculous than people thinking that a bit will give them control, or restricting a normal hoof with a nailed in steel shoe is good for it. I've been unshod for 40 years and bitless for at least 31. I've seen a hoof that needed a shoe (a hoof in a very ugly condition) and if one of mine ever had an injury that required that they'd special hoof support, but as soon as it was healed they'd be back to where they are now. That's not sufficient reason for me to say having a horse shod is good.
> 
> You are free to nail in shoes and put curbed bits in your horses mouth if you like. Just like people are fee to believe that medical science is wrong about the effects of smoking and keep smoking :lol:, or that racing horses at two years before their joints have finish firming is not harmful. My late great uncle never believed that man never went to the moon (and there was less evidence against what he believed :lol
> 
> ...


This is the problem I have with the Bitless barefoot crowd. It is all or nothing with you. All my horses work great with a bit and great with out a bit. Bitless is the end results of good training. It is just that simple. They all have great feet yet they all where shoes. I could not do what I do with my horses with out shoes. There is nothing right or wrong about bits or shoes for horses. Shoes do not constirct anything. As long as the farrier knows what they are doing and fit the shoe to the horse and not the horse to the shoe.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

nrha,you hit it right on the head.you deserve a standing ovation.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Oh, and no, bits don't control horses. Neither do halters. Why have anything on the head at all? I think that's what this thread was about, anyway: _bridleless_, not _bitless_.


I'll agree with that, but people freek when you come riding along with nothing but some bailing twin looped under the neck (which is all you need for a horse that neck reins well). Then you get even more explainations about needing a bit and how you can't have control of the horse that way.

As for all the "experts" who promote shoes (or bits for that matter).....medical "experts" promoted smoking too (even in the face of evidence to the contrary from other medical experts). Equine medical experts still promote racing horses less than 24 months old, even though other equine medical experts say otherwise.

Millions of people (and ALL the experts in Europe) belived the world was the center of the universe once. It was all that long ago that Dr's didn't know about the spread of germs. Wiping a blade on a bloody rang = cleaning it. So we should disregard what goes against what has been followed for centuries? Because it was done for 1,000 years or more must make it right. Well, I guess it could serve the purpose of reducing population, but I think I'll pass.

And you're horse with the split hoof wore the shoe for how long....... (not long apparently).

And not all peoples in the world used shoes. Some of the worlds largest horse cultures did not. The concept of shod horses in the "New World" came from the Eruopeans. If the Mongols had gotten here first, and been the dominant influence, we wouldn't be shoeing our horses.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I have seen horses that need shoes, and they would have to be put down or in a stall all day for the rest of their lives. That just isn't fair to them. So I am pro-shoe so long as it's needed. 

As for bits.. I am pro bit. But I also love working in a rope halter. So I am pro halter too.

I don't see any problems with shoes or bits. Think about it from a person's perspective. If you have fallen arches, there is going to be a lot of pain when you walk for a long time. You put inserts in, you feel better. Some horses need that insert (the shoes.) 

You (used loosely, not pointing fingers) can't have a one mold fits all approach, in my eyes. You have to adapt and change and try things according to the horse. I think you should try everything: bareback, saddle, english, half seat, deep seat, jumping, western, reining, cutting/sorting, trail, bit, bridless, halter, etc. That prepares your horse for everything, your horse learns new languages and can communicate with others effectively and be confident and able. It'll keep their mind engaged and their bodies fit.

But that is only my opinion.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

its lbs not miles said:


> I'll agree with that, but people freek when you come riding along with nothing but some bailing twin looped under the neck (which is all you need for a horse that neck reins well). Then you get even more explainations about needing a bit and how you can't have control of the horse that way.
> 
> *This is nothing more then a lack of education. Again it all comes down to good training. Nothing more nothing less regardless of what you put on your horse.*
> 
> ...


 
Again is not what is better. At the end of the day used properly shoes bits barefoot bitless. No one is better then the other. I can do just as much damage to a bitless barefoot horse as I can to a bitted shod horse. It is not the tool that does the damage bit the hands the tools are in.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

its lbs not miles said:


> I'll agree with that, but people freek when you come riding along with nothing but some bailing twin looped under the neck (which is all you need for a horse that neck reins well). Then you get even more explainations about needing a bit and how you can't have control of the horse that way.


Why even use the baling twine? Why not just use vocal commands?



> As for all the "experts" who promote shoes (or bits for that matter).....medical "experts" promoted smoking too (even in the face of evidence to the contrary from other medical experts). Equine medical experts still promote racing horses less than 24 months old, even though other equine medical experts say otherwise.


I don't know of a single reputatable vet who doesn't have financial ties to the racing industry who promotes running colts. And _au contraire _on the shoeing research thing. There is a lot of current research that goes against conventional "wisdom." They're _shoeing_ horses in a way that better emulates the natural horse hoof shape, rather than with traditionally overangled and long toes. And therapeutic shoeing has come a long, long way in recent years, with things that were never possible before. The vast majority of farriers are open-minded about shoeing versus barefoot, too, and will do whatever is in the best interest of the horse. Sometimes that's shoes. Sometimes it's not. My farrier says that the vast majority of his income comes from trimming. His horses at home are barefoot. He likes barefoot horses. But he still knows that there are scenarios that requires shoes. I've seen him do miraculous things shoeing messed up feet, and since he started working on mine, I've never had a shoeing related problem. The horses who don't pre-existing injuries are doing great under his care--sound, moving nicely, and in short, everything you could ask from a horse.

I have a navicular syndrome gelding and a mare with tendon problems. We tried pulling both of their shoes to see if barefoot trimming would help, both to save money and to evaluate mother nature's healing powers. Both got much, much worse. The gelding developed nasty tendon swelling and became lame at a walk. We wedged him back up and the new developments resolved, giving him back a reasonable quality of life. The mare could not handle being flat-footed, either. Her soles never did toughen up, and every step strained her tendon. Radiographs later showed that her coffin bones were flat to even negatively angled.



> Millions of people (and ALL the experts in Europe) belived the world was the center of the universe once. It was all that long ago that Dr's didn't know about the spread of germs. Wiping a blade on a bloody rang = cleaning it. So we should disregard what goes against what has been followed for centuries? Because it was done for 1,000 years or more must make it right. Well, I guess it could serve the purpose of reducing population, but I think I'll pass.


Oh, come on. That's hardly a reasonable comparison. You might actually look at some of the current research done by leading veterinarians and farriers. It's hardly hack job, guess-and-go stuff. And published in peer-reviewed journals.



> And you're horse with the split hoof wore the shoe for how long....... (not long apparently).


Five months....this time. She also wore shoes until she was nine years old. She had shelly feet and was prone to throwing them, though, which is why we pulled them. Turned out to be a nutritional thing in the end. A hoof supplement greatly improved the quality of her feet.



> And not all peoples in the world used shoes. Some of the worlds largest horse cultures did not. The concept of shod horses in the "New World" came from the Eruopeans. If the Mongols had gotten here first, and been the dominant influence, we wouldn't be shoeing our horses.


It was the Romans, I believe, who first starting using horseshoes, as their horses' feet could not tolerate the riding schedule they were asked to undergo. Mongol plains ponies are also vastly different in type, conformation, and hoof strength than our light and draft breeds. The terrain they have over there is also quite different, and far more "natural" than the soft pastures and deep arena footing we use, or the concrete we sometimes ask our horses to perform over. You can't compare apples and oranges, and you can't make sweeing generalizations.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh, come on, people. His horses, his choice. He's not trying to force you in buying one of his bitless and shoeless steeds or in believing that he's right, is he? You're good with bits and shoeing (and many, many more are)- that's fine, others are good with bitless and shoeless (me, for example)- that's also fine, but is that a reason to start argumenting in a thread that was originally started for a completely different reason?


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Aha...the never use a bit and the never shoe debates. Got to love it. My horse has been shod all his life and he's still sound and showing and he's 17 years old. CORRECT trimming WITH shoeing has not harmed him in the least.

Bits, well the THREE aids for riding are hands, seat and legs. A bit is a tool just as a saddle, a halter, a neck rope, and a hackamore is. Sure you can ride a horse it's whole life without a bit, BUT that horse will not use it's body correctly which leads to unsoundness and body soreness issues. Bits aren't evil and neither are shoes. Let's see you get that horse to round and rate without a bit, run a dressage test, or do a reining pattern etc. People do it all the time, it really IS no big deal. But the horse was trained correctly in a bit to be able to do all those things. 

Something that stuck me though....was the comment about riding up to people with a neck rope and watching them freak out. A little bit of ego and bragging here, because I assume you got satisfaction from their reaction? But yep, your horse your way. But scientific evidence has shown that shoes are not evil and neither are bits.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Inventory can never be evil. Ignorant people, however, can and often are, even unwillingly. And such people may manage to strangle their horse with a neck rope while having a nice hack in the woods, or create them lameness issues for the rest of their lives just by not paying the appropriate attention to their hooves. But ignorant people do not represent the idea and the possibilities behind a riding style or a piece of inventory, so I really see no use of stating over and over again about how something is bad just because we've found something else to be good and seen some mistakes other folks do. Just my two cents.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Getting this back on track...

I mostly ride in a rope halter on my mare...she is softer in this than anything else, but I also ride in regular snaffles, and a light curb, and english hack.










and have ridden bridleless a couple of times (reins are on the barrel)...sorry no actual photos of us, since we were alone at those times...  










To the OP, it's take 2 years to get to this point...don't rush yourself or your horse...if you are patient, and do the training properly, it will happen eventually, but you and your horse have to meld very well, and he has to obey your cues extremely well, or it could end in a catastrophy!!!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I can ride bridless/bitless if my horse is in the mood, meaning he's already been worked and is listening very well. If I just grabbed him out of the pasture, and hopped on, it would be a lot of work for me & my legs & seat, I doubt I could warm him up like that. My trainer said maybe this spring or summer we will be ready for bridless riding, she's given me partial lessons with me dropping the reins, lots of work, we had to weave cones. I was sweating more than the horse.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Back on track, indeed - I used to ride in a riding school which used to be very traditional - no horse without a bit, that was just normal. But some of the horses used to be also very nervous, high strung, headshy, heavy on the forehand and what not, so the owners of the school eventually switched all the horses to rope halters (with appropriate work, of course) - and, surprisingly or not, even the most unruly horses were now available to be ridden by kids. They all became much calmer, willing and sensitive. So, this is just the experience of approximately 30 horses...


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