# Please critique this stallion!!



## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

He's a chunk for sure! I like the first picture. I miss green grass LOL I'm sooo ready for spring!

I love his hip and he has sturdy legs in my opinion. Slightly long in the back but nothing to sneeze at. A little thick in the throat latch and his muzzle is a tad short, but other than that, he's a doll.


----------



## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

To me he looks slightly downhill and as TheMadHatter said, is a little thick in the throat latch. I think he is a gorgeous boy!


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I really hate to burst your bubble but IMO he's not stud quality.

Downhill built which isn't SUCH a bad thing in a paint but I'd still choose a level horse any day. Upright shoulder, light on bone, and there's just something about his hindquarter that puts me off, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is. He looks like he tends to stand a little camped out behind.

I'd have him tested for lethal white. To me he looks tobiano, splash and frame, and as you'll know, frame IS the lethal white gene. He's also kind of bulkier than I'd expect considering he doesn't look especially fit so I would have him tested for HYPP too.

He would make a lovely gelding but as a mare owner I wouldn't breed to him... JMO.


----------



## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm not the best at conformation, so I don't really understand what you mean by upright shoulder, blue eyed pony.. Could you try to explain that to me?


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Let me try to find a photo of a horse with a good shoulder.









actually the above is a horse I really like all round, notwithstanding the less substantial legs and excessively sloped pasterns.

The sloped back shoulder is good, it allows great forward reach and therefore better extensions in the dressage arena and at times a better tuck over fences (though not always - a slightly upright shoulder can be an asset as it allows greater scope for the blade to rotate back thus allowing a higher tuck of the knees). An upright shoulder makes for a choppier, shorter stride, and increased concussion on both horse and rider.

OP's horse is also short through the humerus (in other words, from point of shoulder to elbow) further increasing the shortening effect of the upright shoulder on the stride. I would imagine OP's horse would be severely limited in English disciplines and will not easily make a comfortable ride.

Hope that helps and I haven't confused you more!


----------



## amp23 (Jan 6, 2011)

That does make sense  I compared the 2 pictures and now I see what you mean. Thanks for taking the time to explain that to me!


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

No problem 

I find that different conformation is desirable for different disciplines. A jumper should not look like a reiner should not look like a western pleasure horse should not look like a dressage horse. Different horses for different courses, always. So, as a jumping rider, there are VERY few horses of traditionally Western breeds that I like, because a Western horse will not be built like a jumper. But hey - I know nothing about Western disciplines so OP's horse could be considered ideal for at least one of them, and I wouldn't have a clue.


----------



## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I agree with Blue Eyed Pony. In addition to being on the upright side of things his shoulder looks a little "lacking in definition" to me. His neck is a tad short and throatlatch is thick. He looks choppy and not very.... "flexible" (I am not sure if thats the word I'm looking for). As said he is down hill. He does have a nice high neck set and his back is a little long but decent. I like his head, he looks like a nice sturdy work horse, very flashy color and he would make a fantastic gelding.


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

That lack of shoulder definition is what's making me think the horse is probably unfit, NI. The shoulder should be well-defined in a fit horse at good weight, and I have seen FAT horses with good shoulder definition but they were very fit as well, just kept on the heavier side to ensure that they still looked good at the end of a hard showing season.

Also, in the "clean" photo, he gives an overall impression of "fat".

I do agree, though, that he would be a great gelding. Not so much a stallion IMO as there is a much higher standard of quality available and this horse mostly seems to cater to the "coloured" market which just perpetuates the thousands of unwanted horses being born every year and ultimately neglected, abused or slaughtered.

All that being said I think there are about four horses I know of that I would consider to be of breeding quality conformationally, and two that I would personally breed to given the right mare. I am picky. IMO a horse must be exceptional in conformation, temperament and performance before it should even be considered for breeding. If even one is lacking, I'll keep looking. I love me some colour, don't get me wrong (my yearling is buckskin and there's a nice tobiano stallion I'm eyeing off to maybe breed a sport pony one day - and another tobiano stallion I'm eyeing off to maybe breed MYSELF a show horse), but with breeding, you breed the best to the best and hope for the best. Colour's just the icing on the cake. And, not knowing the frame status of my filly (though I strongly doubt she carries it due to showing no outward traits that can't be explained by splashed white, which she almost certainly has in a minimal expression), I won't breed to anything that looks, or has been tested, as OLWS positive.

YES, there will always be that market for a steady, dependable child's/trail mount, but I feel that if we make temperament one of our top priorities in breeding for good performance animals, we will still have the "duds" that don't or can't perform for whatever reason, and it is those that would make up the pleasure market. And no matter what we do there will always be those backyard breeders who will breed anything to anything if they think it'll make them a buck.

Of course it's all just my opinion but to be honest I'd geld this horse on suspected frame alone. Sure, it's pretty (one of my fav patterns actually) but I don't like how it can and does hide. Frame usually doesn't express much, if at all, on a horse that doesn't have at least one other pinto gene. So should we test every horse no matter its colour or breed? Can you imagine how much that would cost horse owners the world over? Apparently frame doesn't exist in Arabians (or Welsh, there are several breeds so take your pick) but it was only a few years ago that we thought silver didn't exist in QH, and there is a silver bay QH standing at stud here in Aus now so that pretty much proves us all wrong. How many breeds carry genes we don't know about?

Anyway. Excuse the rant, it's half past two in the morning and I'm kind of in the mood for long and wandering musings at the moment. Time for bed I think.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Congratulations on your acquisition. His sire is quite the horse.

I don't know enough about reining conformation to comment. Hopefully NHRAreiner will pick up the thread. Like her, I prefer to see a strong mare line, and I don't see much there, but she is the expert...


----------



## cowboy1393 (Jan 4, 2012)

this has to be said "blue eyed pony" i have been reading a few other posts and notice how you say this stallion isnt breeding material, geld etc... who are you to tell someone to geld their stallion? i noticed you have thrown down many horses which are not that bad.. What is your discipline? personally this stallion is not bad, hes chunky yes, and he is a little down hill, but where do you get off telling the op is breeding for color? the op stated his foals are in reining and working cow, so maybe he is correct for that.. Just because something doesn't suit what you are looking for there is no need to go on peoples threads and rant about stuff... Not to mention say the op is breeding for color.. how do you know that? There might be people out there who would like to breed to him and get foals off of him and if he is reining and working cow he must be somewhat ok in the standards to be doing it and selling offspring for the same purpose.. IMO people should comment in horses of their own discipline.. especially if you don't know about the discipline the op's horse is in.... But hey that's just MY OPINION.. 

@ Op - i do not see to much wrong with him, yes he is a bit downhill, and he is on the fatter side, does have a thicker throat latch but with some good work outs etc that can be corrected overall I like him and i am sure he has probably produced some nice foals..


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> Let me try to find a photo of a horse with a good shoulder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This horse looks familiar.....it is Martin's Worry?


----------



## ricoscowgirl2213 (Aug 28, 2010)

Strait is fat, lol I know that but he also hasn't been rode or worked since spring time, we are going to get him back into beeing worked out and a better feed program so hope that helps. We just got him and this is the condidtion he was bought in, I hope to get him in better shape. His foals have been used in reining and working cow and we have heard notthing but good, he produces great minded foals and yes they might have color but WE didn't just buy for color he has a great disposition and couldn't be happier with him he is not HYPP and not lethal white. 

Not sure if I got this correct but was I called a backyard breeder??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Waresbear I don't actually know... just a random photo of a horse I found on google that I liked. It's a danish warmblood or something.

OP - It was not my intention to call anybody a backyard breeder, but you will want to be careful what mares you accept as with his colour you may get a lot of people who want to breed their mare to your stud purely to get a pretty patchy baby. It's great he's not HYPP or OLW, certainly looks to me like he shows a fair few frame traits but if he's tested negative then clearly he's not carrying frame but rather a combination of other pinto genes that are causing the appearance of the traits. It was his face marking that bothered me - wanting to spread out on top above the eyes, but avoiding the ears, is one trait considered pretty typical of frame.

I am sorry, I word things terribly when it's late at night. I really must stay off the computer past 10pm.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

cowboy1393 said:


> i have been reading a few other posts and notice how you say this stallion isnt breeding material, geld etc... who are you to tell someone to geld their stallion?


Actually this is a _*public *_board. So people are free to voice the opinion whether someone likes it or not, especially in "_*Critique*_" section.


----------



## HAFWalkers (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd like to see better head to neck proportion, but I am more of a gaited person.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I will tell you something, not saying it's true or not, however every high end paint breeder I know has told me this....

Most of the best quality paints have the lethal white gene. 

Also a trainer I know & respect told me this as well. Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I will say, all the homozeygous(sp?) studs I have seen haven't impressed me any. Every paint horse I have been wowed by is LW.


----------

