# Carolina Choice vs Producer's Pride Pellet



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

An average sized horse (1,000lbs) needs 15,000 calories a day as maintenance. Add work and that number goes up to 25,000cals a day for moderate work or as much as 33,000cals a day for heavy work. Every horse is an individual so needs can be different and change seasonally in addition to changing as they age . Your horse should get the majority of their calories from their forage source - whether pasture or hay. Fresh is best vitamin wise but hay works as long as you know nutritionally what it is providing and ensuring they get what is missing. Both should be tested for minerals so you know if you need to supplement there.

A horse will burn more calories in the winter just to stay warm than in summer. 

A feed with 4% fat has a total of 2lbs of fat distributed in that 50lbs so 48lbs of "stuff" and 2lbs of fat. A pound of fat provides 4,032 calories So that bag has 8,064 calories that are from fat. Fat is a safer calorie choice than sugar. Your calories should primarily come from fiber (with a percent from protein) sources. Cheaper the feed the cheaper the source for the ingredients and the more fillers (sugar). 

Sugar is worse because it (begins the domino effect) leads to "horse diabetes" (Insulin Resistance, Cushings). It is a huge issue. 

Oats should be fed with alfalfa to be balanced. They are low on calcium and high on phosporous. But even adding alfalfa and just feeding oat/alfalfa mixed as your feed source could lead to problems. 

Strategy (Purina) $17 a bag at our TSC provides 1500 cals per pound. 3 lbs is enough to make sure they get all of their vits and mins and that is what most of the saddle horses get. Our pasture is thin so I feed for extra calories and to ensure they get what they need. That 3lbs keeps good weight and nice coats on most of my horses. They are healthy and the sugars aren't so high that I worry. If I had an IR or Cushings horse they'd be fed differently.

This is a list of calories (though not by nutrient) in common feeds:
Omolene: 100
1,535
Vintage Gold
1,535
 Technical
- Grass Plus 
1,550
 Omolene: 200
1,625
Vintage Mare & Foal
1,480
Alfalfa Plus Performer
1,550
Omolene: 300
1,535
Vintage Senior
1,440
Gro N Win
1,300
Strategy
1,500
Vintage Versatility
1,590
Gro N Win Alfa
1,300
Equine Family: Junior
1,350
Vintage Racer
1,560
Formula Line
- Growth Sweet
1,550
Equine Family: Adult
1,100
Vintage Sweet
1,560
Growth Texture
1,450
Equine Family: Senior
1,225
Vintage Victory
1,550
Growth Pellet
1,420
Race Ready
1,625
Pellets: Demand
1,490
Training Formula
1,550
Ultimum
1,800
Pellets: Contender
1,435
Cadence Formula
1,650
Horse Chow: 100
1,000
Pellets: Hunter
1,485
Show Formula
1,250
Horse Chow: 200
1,125
Pellets: Carb-Guard
1,500
Leisure Line
- Senior Texture
1,237
Complete Advantage
1,400
Pellets: Trotter
1,325
Senior Pellet
1,316
Horseman’s Edge: 12% Swt
1,500
Pellets: Sport
1,525
Senior GC
1,299
Horseman’s Edge: 14% Swt
1,500
Pellets: Strider
1,450
Safe N Easy Pellet
1,250
Nature’s Essentials: M&M
1,100
Coarse Sweet: Charger
1,520
Safe N Easy Texture
1,420
Nature’s Essentials: B t W
1,300
Coarse Sweet: Pacer
1,520
Complete N Win Line
- Race 
1,575
Athlete
1,900
Coarse Sweet: Rider
1,450
Unbeetable
1,575
Ingredients: Oats
1,100
Horse 10
1,470
Prominent
1,600
Ingredients: Corn
1,500
Supreme
1,550
Ingredients: Beet Pulp
1,060


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Meant to add that per pound of a feed with 4% fat you are feeding 161 fat calories per pound. Producer's Pride has molasses as the third ingredient on the list. Ingredients are listed in order by the amount in the feed. The calories coming from sugar will be high.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Hate interruptions. You don't say whether they are on pasture and how long or hay (what type) and how much. You should feed by weight and don't say the size of your scoop which could give us an idea of how much they are getting. If you have a food scale you could measure your typical scoop of your feeds and know how much they are roughly getting day to day. Size of scoops vary greatly so knowing how much YOUR scoop holds is important. The scoop at my in laws holds 2 ounces (vit/mineral mix - no sugar). My neighbors scoop holds a pound of pellets (pelleted vits/minerals - very, very tiny amount of sugar) mine holds 3lbs of pellets (complete feed plus vits/mins has some sugar but not as high as a sweet feed), big differences. 

All of these posts to say educate yourself and make your decisions best on what is best for your horse. If they are on a really good pasture with a good hay in winter then only supplement with what you need to make sure they are a healthy weight with good muscle and adequate fat. If they have good solid feet and no laminitis then what you are feeding is working but just know that can change and that there are better choices for not much more.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> Hate interruptions. You don't say whether they are on pasture and how long or hay (what type) and how much. You should feed by weight and don't say the size of your scoop which could give us an idea of how much they are getting. If you have a food scale you could measure your typical scoop of your feeds and know how much they are roughly getting day to day. Size of scoops vary greatly so knowing how much YOUR scoop holds is important. The scoop at my in laws holds 2 ounces (vit/mineral mix - no sugar). My neighbors scoop holds a pound of pellets (pelleted vits/minerals - very, very tiny amount of sugar) mine holds 3lbs of pellets (complete feed plus vits/mins has some sugar but not as high as a sweet feed), big differences.
> 
> All of these posts to say educate yourself and make your decisions best on what is best for your horse. If they are on a really good pasture with a good hay in winter then only supplement with what you need to make sure they are a healthy weight with good muscle and adequate fat. If they have good solid feet and no laminitis then what you are feeding is working but just know that can change and that there are better choices for not much more.


 very imformative and thanks. I'll probably just start buying from TSC since they are much closer. My pasture is decent but could be better and the hay is either bahaylia or alfalpha or a mix. They are on the pasture all day and night.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Look into a ration balancer, too. For many horses, that's all that's needed if their hay/pasture is quality. I've been very happy with how mine look on that as opposed to what they used to get, which was pasture/hay, plain oats, beet pulp, and vitamin supplement. I feed 1 lb per day per horse, so a bag will last one horse about 6 weeks.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

SilverMaple said:


> Look into a ration balancer, too. For many horses, that's all that's needed if their hay/pasture is quality. I've been very happy with how mine look on that as opposed to what they used to get, which was pasture/hay, plain oats, beet pulp, and vitamin supplement. I feed 1 lb per day per horse, so a bag will last one horse about 6 weeks.


 how much does a bag cost and what particular one do you get? I'd like to google it 


And are you saying that's all your horses get daily? No hay at all? Any images of the horses?


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

SilverMaple's horses get hay when needed. Same as mine do. For me that is winter only (usually 2 but sometimes 3 months). My pasture is actually centipede but a mix of bahaia and bermuda in spots. I'll post pics of the two I have on bahaia pasture that only get Purina Free Balance (2 ounces per serving - think of it as a complete vitamin/min mix just not in a pill). It is $28.99 a bag and lasts three months at 2 ounces a day per horse for the two horses plus a bag of pellets a month so I figure $25 for both together for just those two. I do add alfalfa pellets or beet pulp to the Free Balance to get them to eat it but it is maybe a lb per horse. They are both drafts so that is a drop in the bucket calorie wise. If inlaws buy feed they get allstock (which I hate but they think the horses are missing out - at least they only give about a lb per horse). This link Palomino with winter coat - show me is to a current thread. You can see the range of those on the centipede mostly that get 3lbs of Strategy. There are a couple that get a higher calorie feed (either Ultium or Equine Senior Active) at 3lbs. Strategy is a pelleted feed. The neighbor has hers on Purina Enrich Plus ($28.99 a bag which is a 30 day supply fed at 1.5lbs a day but she usually just gives a pound so about 6 weeks worth) which is a pelleted ration balancer. Hers I don't have a picture of but he is sleek, not fat. That is something like SilverMaple feeds so hopefully she will post a pic of hers.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Right now mine are on Enrich Plus ration balancer by Purina because I can get it locally and it works for my horses. Some other companies have them, too, and they are all rather similar. A ration balancer is meant to be fed with quality hay/pasture. It's really a concentrate, as most typical feeds don't provide the right nutrients unless you feed the recommended rate on the bag, typically 3-5 pounds, and that's WAAAY too much feed for most horses if they have good forage. A ration balancer is meant to bridge the gap between a quality forage diet, and the horse's nutritional needs. I was skeptical, but my horses look great on it. Be aware that protein will seem very high, but that's because you feed so little of it. The guy at the feed store here says he feeds it to all of his horses, and if a horse needs a bit more, a scoop of good quality oats and some alfalfa pellets is added, but otherwise they all get pasture and/or good grass hay and the balancer. He has mares and foals all the way up to senior horses, show horses, pleasure horses, and takes in some rescue/rehab projects and sales horses on it.

I buy it at a local feed store, for about $27/bag

I have more pics on my home computer/phone if needed. This one is all I have on my laptop! During the summer, this guy is on pasture and the ration balancer and that's it. During the winter, he and the rest of the horses will be getting grass hay rather than pasture. When the grass is good, they won't even touch hay, and we rarely have to feed any hay at all between April and mid-October. Even with drought this year, the grass was good enough that they haven't needed any hay yet except for the few days when it did actually rain and flooded the lower pasture, so they were kept up by the barn and got some hay to keep them happy.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

The black is my Paso Fino, the blaze faced sorrel is my aged gelding (27). The paint and sorrel mare belong to the farm owner but eat the same diet.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> SilverMaple's horses get hay when needed. Same as mine do. For me that is winter only (usually 2 but sometimes 3 months). My pasture is actually centipede but a mix of bahaia and bermuda in spots. I'll post pics of the two I have on bahaia pasture that only get Purina Free Balance (2 ounces per serving - think of it as a complete vitamin/min mix just not in a pill). It is $28.99 a bag and lasts three months at 2 ounces a day per horse for the two horses plus a bag of pellets a month so I figure $25 for both together for just those two. I do add alfalfa pellets or beet pulp to the Free Balance to get them to eat it but it is maybe a lb per horse. They are both drafts so that is a drop in the bucket calorie wise. If inlaws buy feed they get allstock (which I hate but they think the horses are missing out - at least they only give about a lb per horse). This link Palomino with winter coat - show me is to a current thread. You can see the range of those on the centipede mostly that get 3lbs of Strategy. There are a couple that get a higher calorie feed (either Ultium or Equine Senior Active) at 3lbs. Strategy is a pelleted feed. The neighbor has hers on Purina Enrich Plus ($28.99 a bag which is a 30 day supply fed at 1.5lbs a day but she usually just gives a pound so about 6 weeks worth) which is a pelleted ration balancer. Hers I don't have a picture of but he is sleek, not fat. That is something like SilverMaple feeds so hopefully she will post a pic of hers.


 Appreciate the pics and the detailed information


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

*Q*



SilverMaple said:


> Right now mine are on Enrich Plus ration balancer by Purina because I can get it locally and it works for my horses. Some other companies have them, too, and they are all rather similar. A ration balancer is meant to be fed with quality hay/pasture. It's really a concentrate, as most typical feeds don't provide the right nutrients unless you feed the recommended rate on the bag, typically 3-5 pounds, and that's WAAAY too much feed for most horses if they have good forage. A ration balancer is meant to bridge the gap between a quality forage diet, and the horse's nutritional needs. I was skeptical, but my horses look great on it. Be aware that protein will seem very high, but that's because you feed so little of it. The guy at the feed store here says he feeds it to all of his horses, and if a horse needs a bit more, a scoop of good quality oats and some alfalfa pellets is added, but otherwise they all get pasture and/or good grass hay and the balancer. He has mares and foals all the way up to senior horses, show horses, pleasure horses, and takes in some rescue/rehab projects and sales horses on it.
> 
> I buy it at a local feed store, for about $27/bag
> 
> I have more pics on my home computer/phone if needed. This one is all I have on my laptop! During the summer, this guy is on pasture and the ration balancer and that's it. During the winter, he and the rest of the horses will be getting grass hay rather than pasture. When the grass is good, they won't even touch hay, and we rarely have to feed any hay at all between April and mid-October. Even with drought this year, the grass was good enough that they haven't needed any hay yet except for the few days when it did actually rain and flooded the lower pasture, so they were kept up by the barn and got some hay to keep them happy.


 thanks appreciate it. Good looking horse; yours as well as Qtrbel's


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Do you have pics to post of your two? We all loving seeing other user's horses.... it could also help with recommendations.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

A ration balancer may be perfect when your pasture is producing quality grasses grown.
You post from the USA...that means winter is approaching and your pasture _*is*_ past prime growing therefore nutrients are *not* what they were and going away fast.
I haven't had a chance to read all the responses but the information is good what I did see and read.

Quality feed has a ingredient list on every bag.
There is also a breakdown of protein, fat, fiber and all the vitamin & minerals included in each bag and directions for feeding based on what the horse should weigh and workload the horse is currently doing...
Most ingredients are listed first to smallest amount of a ingredient last.
"Grain" true grain today unless your horse is a working horse is frowned upon by nutritionists because of sugar and carb overload the horse deals with...a sugar rush and spikes in insulin every living creature deals with...not a good combination.
Foods high in fats and fiber, low in NSC and sugars are healthier options to feed.

Today there are better choices out there for a few dollars more per bag.
That few dollars more spent though may also allow you to feed the same amount with a much better result in looks, disposition and health of your horse.
I bet though that you might end up feeding less food and achieve better results with calorie rich, nutrient dense, added vitamins and minerals needed daily.
TSC stores have a huge assortment of feeds available from several manufacturers for specifically horses. Those stores get fresh shipments weekly so feed is readily available.
Consider looking for staying with a pelleted feed not a sweet feed as it is kinder to the hoses digestive and endocrine system...
Quality hay and forage is your first item fed in nutrition then adding feed if your horse needs the extra nutrients to thrive and do well.
A lot to learn but your horse{s} will love you for making the right choices for him/her or them.:grin:
:runninghorse2:...


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Look at that feed label on that bag of feed, know what your horses are missing from the forage alone, and then supplement as to what is needed, if anything, beyond vitamins and minerals, from the forage alone, which should and in fact,needs to be the main part of any horse;s diet.
Know what drives equine nutritionists nuts? It is when t the owner is asked as to what they horse is fed, and they list a bunch of supplements
Know what your forage is lacking, supply free choice minerals and salt, and then only add some concentrated feed if needed, and based on the forage and the individual horse need
There is no super ;rocket fuel', good for all horses. No recommendations, in my mind, can be given, without knowing the forage fed, which should be the main part of any horse's diet
Do you decide your own daily food needs, based on some food value on a box of cereal?
These are some of mine horses. Know what they get? Forage according to individual needs, soaked beet pulp with any special additives, depending on the horse, if any, free choice salt and minerals-that;s it
If I can show horses , feeding that menu, feeds high in NSC are not needed, and should be avoided.
What I often wonder about, when people ask about which ;'rocket fuel to feed, why in the heck are they not posting as to what forage they are feeding, and what t contains, as that feed bag label means squat, if not taken into context of total diet and of which the forage,not that bagged feed, is the major part


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> Do you have pics to post of your two? We all loving seeing other user's horses.... it could also help with recommendations.


 Yes I do and sorry with late responses. Working a lot of OT but will post some in a few.


actually just got time 


in the pic of Scout alone it's at my house when I first got him few yrs ago. I move them around in different areas of the yard and other little small pastures.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

more....


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> A ration balancer may be perfect when your pasture is producing quality grasses grown.
> You post from the USA...that means winter is approaching and your pasture _*is*_ past prime growing therefore nutrients are *not* what they were and going away fast.
> I haven't had a chance to read all the responses but the information is good what I did see and read.
> 
> ...


 Thanks, very informative as well. Yeah I can see going up some in spending per bag as I will be driving less mileage to TSC now also  


My horses to be honest don't get worked or ridden much and mostly just relax , chill, and eat lol to be frank.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

Smilie said:


> Look at that feed label on that bag of feed, know what your horses are missing from the forage alone, and then supplement as to what is needed, if anything, beyond vitamins and minerals, from the forage alone, which should and in fact,needs to be the main part of any horse;s diet.
> Know what drives equine nutritionists nuts? It is when t the owner is asked as to what they horse is fed, and they list a bunch of supplements
> Know what your forage is lacking, supply free choice minerals and salt, and then only add some concentrated feed if needed, and based on the forage and the individual horse need
> There is no super ;rocket fuel', good for all horses. No recommendations, in my mind, can be given, without knowing the forage fed, which should be the main part of any horse's diet
> ...


 Yes I understand that with a lot of things in life, there will be and can be a debate as to the level of enthusiasts for particular things and hobbies , ect. Some folks are more in tune or in touch and know lots more and are students of particular areas of interests. Other folks have a certain level for whatever reason or reasons rather it be work schedule or other things going on in life. I try to have a balance with everything going on and try to give attention to all fascets. I won't proclaim to be an expert in the horse area but I feel I do pretty well with the help of some neighbors ; not right next to me that I can ask easily all the time though. But I have inquired and ask questions and I'd say my knowledge is growing and I do pretty well them. Things could always use improvement but I'll just have to do the best that I can and try and give love to the horses, the dogs, the 3 mustang cars I have, and before that, the wife and son . That's amongst the home projects and garages that's being built, working OT a good bit. It's a major balancing act for sure.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

nyg052003 said:


> It's a major balancing act for sure.


*You do what works for you, is best for you in your situation.

*Your horses appearance, if those pictures are current, are not showing "lack" of food or nutrition.

Yes, some can get over-the-top in what they feed, how much and balance this or that....micro-managing. 
For some it is because their horse is "ill", with metabolic issues you would refer to as diabetes {IR} or cushings {similar to diabetes} so careful feeding is needed.
I get it....
I, we on the forum also get life intrudes with a daily existence of work and chores...
So.....
Make sure your horses have good forage, hay in adequate amounts.
If your horses can maintain their appearance of good weight then get them quality vitamins and minerals so they stay healthiest.
If they start to lose that nice appearance then look for a feed to feed them that is high in fat and fiber and between 10% -12% protein as they _don't_ need more protein than that honestly. Read all bag backs for feeding directions.

_You're doing just fine...._
Ask questions...
Continue on with your learning with input from many...as with anything read, take it in, apply what you want and need and store the rest for another time.

_You have very nice looking horses...._
Do enjoy the journey of ownership and the road to learning all of us have traveled and still travel if honest....with horses you_* never *_stop learning!:wink:
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> *You do what works for you, is best for you in your situation.*
> 
> Your horses appearance, if those pictures are current, are not showing "lack" of food or nutrition.
> 
> ...


 Hey thanks I appreciate it. Since the day I discovered forums be it the mustang forums, tractor, dogs, horses, or what have you, I have met a lot of good people and got lots of good information. I've learned from them and I appreciate folks taking the time. I've loved horses since I was a kid. Just the joy of being around them, watching them grazing, their touch and feel, the smell. All of that makes me pretty crazy about a horse. Yes there's more I'd like to do one day and have a better setup for tack, barns, ect. I think my setup now is adequate and it takes time and that's definitely added to my to do list 


I'm changing the way things are and making them better as to try and do it once mentality and not have to have much maintenance later on. So yes you learn something of some sort from folks every day


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Agree horses look fine. My only point was, a bag of feed is a very small part of a horse's total daily diet, so you just can't go by what is on that label, far a desired dailey levels, as if those levels represent the total daily diet
If you need to add more calories, which it does not appear your horses need, then cool calories are safer to feed then hot calories
Minerals are something you do need to supplement, and that can be free choice
Far as balancing act, been there done that one! When I started to raise horses, not just have horses, I was working full time in the lab, and had two young children that I had to get ready fo the babysitter, and the other one had to get ready for kindergarten
We also had about 10 'bucket bunters ' (dairy calves )that had to be fed milk replacer, given antibiotics as needed, before I got kids ready for the day, and myself to get to the lab by 8AM
I trained young horses, often in the dark, after work, and when hubby got home to look after the kids-not in an arena, but out in snowy fields, or down the road
I learned the hard way, far as feeding horses hot calories, because there was the mind set, if you showed, then you grained those horses, and some molasses on top of that did not hurt, plus you also fed top hay, like second cut alfalfa
Kinda nice, I believe, not to have to re -invent the wheel, and learn from those that have gone down that path.
Because I am retired now, does not mean there was not a time in my life that I juggled a career, raising young children and not just riding some horses for pleasure, but actively raising them and training them


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

Smilie said:


> Agree horses look fine. My only point was, a bag of feed is a very small part of a horse's total daily diet, so you just can't go by what is on that label, far a desired dailey levels, as if those levels represent the total daily diet
> If you need to add more calories, which it does not appear your horses need, then cool calories are safer to feed then hot calories
> Minerals are something you do need to supplement, and that can be free choice
> Far as balancing act, been there done that one! When I started to raise horses, not just have horses, I was working full time in the lab, and had two young children that I had to get ready fo the babysitter, and the other one had to get ready for kindergarten
> ...


 Wow you had your hands full for sure 


Nothing like talking to horse folks and picking their brain. I've met some people in TSC that always offer opinions and help and it's good to be able to listen and learn, gather info and also help others also. I've helped some people and offered my opinion on some different matters and feels good to lend a hand


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Sounds good, and you know what they say, you never live long enough to learn everything about horses!
Your hroses look well cared for.
Many people helped me along the way, and I also learned from lots of mistakes and still am!


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

Smilie said:


> Sounds good, and you know what they say, you never live long enough to learn everything about horses!
> Your hroses look well cared for.
> Many people helped me along the way, and I also learned from lots of mistakes and still am!


 thanks a lot . 


definitely and I know I still am


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

The red dun mare I guess she could use some weight back there at the top of the hips? That sink


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

It is hard to evaluate whether a horse needs weight from the angle of your picture with accuracy.
Things that help I find is to look from the butt forward up the spine...
The butt should be rounded, flanks flat or slightly convex {rounded out}, with the hip girdle {hips, legs and spine meet on back} aka sacroiliac joint.
Wither should not be razored look either and shoulder points not pointy...
She is not in bad shape, has good muscle tone by the look of the picture.
Some extra food, hay and yes, feed fed to get the weight on before the real cold of winter arrives to stay.
Add some extra fat to her diet will help her to gain weight safely and quicker.
All feed manufacturers have fat supplements you can add in addition to her daily ration.
You can also feed a senior feed that will help to add that desired look. Senior feed is safe to feed any horse over 5 years of age.
Add extra hay first and watch her...you should see a difference in 7 - 10 days.
If you don't then she needs more calories than hay is providing...feed her fat rich feed.
Good luck.
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> It is hard to evaluate whether a horse needs weight from the angle of your picture with accuracy.
> Things that help I find is to look from the butt forward up the spine...
> The butt should be rounded, flanks flat or slightly convex {rounded out}, with the hip girdle {hips, legs and spine meet on back} aka sacroiliac joint.
> Wither should not be razored look either and shoulder points not pointy...
> ...


I can always give her more but I'd have to have her separate than my gelding he is an easy keeper doesnt take much he is nice and fat and round and plump butt I feed them well separate but in the same area and of course he will when he finishes his go and help her eat hers LOL


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

Pics yesterday


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

She needs "more" than your gelding...
He maintains on "air" and she needs to really eat.
She needs weight and not to share one morsel of food with your gelding.
Possibly her just getting to eat her food by herself will put the weight back on and round out her appearance.
There is always one in a group of two or more who "helps" themself to more than their fair share...
Not sure how to accomplish keeping him away while she eats except to stand guard with the electric fence.
Normally I would say halter & tie him in his area and her in hers till they are done with their feed. 
Sharing hay piles, as long as you put out more hay than horses so the mare is able to eat her needed amount works.
I too have one who stays round on air and another who always needs more in feed and hay...my "round" one of course is my dominant pushy one, why he is round and the other not! Now, I place my hay piles in far places my lazier, round one doesn't go after the other hay so much. I have stalls and feed the feed in them, both get although one is hay pellets while the other is really eating calories and high fat feed....as long as they not sample each others feed I'm good. :wink:
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> She needs "more" than your gelding...
> He maintains on "air" and she needs to really eat.
> She needs weight and not to share one morsel of food with your gelding.
> Possibly her just getting to eat her food by herself will put the weight back on and round out her appearance.
> ...


 Actually I give them equal amounts so they both get finished around the same time. I did when I first got him, tied him to eat. My other gelding that I sold, he would be greedy and help her eat his then go to his and keep her off. I had to break him out of that lol and he still wanted to try it sometime when I wasn't looking. 


Tying him off would work when I feed but not when I'm on military duty and my son feeds for a few days. He isn't that in to the horses and I won't expect him to really be that responsible as he would need to be in that regard. I know, kids these days lol. But yes I'll just start feeding them earlier when I get home or something and tie him off and give her more . It's not an issue of him eating some of hers as I've been seeing. They actually will share a bucket of food without either trying to push the other away.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

This is where you feed one a low calorie feed and the other high. Senior feeds don't have the calories you would think they should and are actually low on the caloric scale. Purina Eq. SR ACTIVE (or any senior active feed) will have more than a standard non sweet feed or just a complete senior feed which is forage based to replace hay if they cannot chew the hay any longer. You would still need forage (hay/pasture) with an active but not with a complete senior that replaces forage. You could also add a fat supplement to hers and feed him a fiber (like beet pulp pellets) mixed in so their feed amount is roughly equal but hers are more calorie dense. I like to add Foal Lac to my brood mares when in the last 3 months of pregnancy and while nursing. The babies will also get this added when they get close to weaning and the first few months after especially if they aren't holding weight well or we are going into winter. It keeps weight on them. 14% fat and cost wise is reasonable but there are other mostly/all fat supplements you could get that you could add to her feed. Just know that you need to feed more than just a couple of ounces of a fat supp if you are feeding to put weight on them. Up to a pound a day is not uncommon. 3500 cals in one pound, roughly 200 cals in one ounce. As for your son feeding if it is just for a few days and she can get a good amount of feed even if it isn't hers then I wouldn't worry too much. But if he is gobbling his and then pushing her off hers something will need to be figured out. How fast do they each eat?


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I have a couple that share a pot and I just add an extra scoop of feed so the mare gets hers for sure. Putting that scoop in his bucket doesn't work as he still leaves his even if there is some in it to go eat with her. I also have a few that gobble and push the slower eaters around. They get a low cal feed and the others get high cal so the gobblers are kept a little busier with their own and gives the slower ones time to get theirs down. Ideally the cals on the high cal feed are enough that the slow eaters don't have to be fed as much and the finish first or at the same time. If there is one that really needs the cals and absolutely cannot afford to "share" that one gets put in the riding pen where she can see the others but they can't get her feed. She has room if she gets forgotten (my son even though he is "into" horses unless he remembers to set a timer or my husband who swears he never falls asleep early) and there is grass or in winter I put hay out in case.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> This is where you feed one a low calorie feed and the other high. Senior feeds don't have the calories you would think they should and are actually low on the caloric scale. Purina Eq. SR ACTIVE (or any senior active feed) will have more than a standard non sweet feed or just a complete senior feed which is forage based to replace hay if they cannot chew the hay any longer. You would still need forage (hay/pasture) with an active but not with a complete senior that replaces forage. You could also add a fat supplement to hers and feed him a fiber (like beet pulp pellets) mixed in so their feed amount is roughly equal but hers are more calorie dense. I like to add Foal Lac to my brood mares when in the last 3 months of pregnancy and while nursing. The babies will also get this added when they get close to weaning and the first few months after especially if they aren't holding weight well or we are going into winter. It keeps weight on them. 14% fat and cost wise is reasonable but there are other mostly/all fat supplements you could get that you could add to her feed. Just know that you need to feed more than just a couple of ounces of a fat supp if you are feeding to put weight on them. Up to a pound a day is not uncommon. 3500 cals in one pound, roughly 200 cals in one ounce. As for your son feeding if it is just for a few days and she can get a good amount of feed even if it isn't hers then I wouldn't worry too much. But if he is gobbling his and then pushing her off hers something will need to be figured out. How fast do they each eat?


 No my gelding doesn't do like my other gelding does, they eat their own food and about the same pace, different buckets. It's just that if I gave him less and her more he'd then go help her finish so I'd have to tie him in that regard.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

nyg052003 said:


> No my gelding doesn't do like my other gelding does, they eat their own food and about the same pace, different buckets. It's just that if I gave him less and her more he'd then go help her finish so I'd have to tie him in that regard.


No.....
Leave the gelding feed alone in amount and brand/type fed...
Change your mares to a higher calorie content per pound....kind of like feeding her high-test vs. regular gas.
Higher fat content will pack weight on her in places needed.

Now...I have a very hard-keeper who if you look at him sideways he _*will*_ drop weight.
I am now supplementing, top-dressing, adding to his ration Pennwoods Body Builder 4000.
A scoop_ {provided}_ on top of the feed has made all the difference to my horse I could not achieve in 3 years of owning him, taking him from a rescue, walking death to a gorgeous animal {imo}.
It costs pennies a day to feed and the results in coat, body, hoof and attitude is just enormous.
Here is a link for you to read their information... _https://pennwoods.com/body-builder-4000/_
Any product like this supplement would benefit your mare...some are better than others and some do more overall than others depending upon ingredients.
Just remember that a supplement is just that, supplement.
Supplements are fed _in addition to_ a normally fed daily ration of food _not in place of_ it.

I would also consider blanketing the mare if your weather is cold, rainy, inclement and all that comes with winter.
Providing a blanket allows her to not need to burn off calories staying warm if you offer her a coat to wear. Something else to consider. :wink:
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

nyg052003 said:


> No my gelding doesn't do like my other gelding does, they eat their own food and about the same pace, different buckets. It's just that if I gave him less and her more he'd then go help her finish so I'd have to tie him in that regard.


No, no.....
Leave the geldings feed alone in amount and brand/type fed...
Change your mares to a higher calorie content per pound....kind of like feeding her high-test vs. regular gas.
Higher fat content will pack weight on her in places needed.

Now...I have a very hard-keeper who if you look at him sideways he _*will*_ drop weight.
I am now supplementing, top-dressing, adding to his ration Pennwoods Body Builder 4000.
A scoop_ {provided}_ on top of the feed has made all the difference to my horse I could not achieve in 3 years of owning him, taking him from a rescue, walking death to a gorgeous animal _{imo}_.
It costs pennies a day to feed and the results in coat, body, hoof and attitude is just enormous.
Here is a link for you to read their information... _https://pennwoods.com/body-builder-4000/_
Any product like this supplement would benefit your mare...some are better than others and some do more overall than others depending upon ingredients.
Just remember that a supplement is just that, supplement.
Supplements are fed _in addition to_ a normally fed daily ration of food _not in place of_ it.

I would also consider blanketing the mare if your weather is cold, rainy, inclement and all that comes with winter.
Providing a blanket allows her to not need to burn off calories staying warm if you offer her a coat to wear. Something else to consider. :wink:
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ That.

We jokingly call that "Jack Spratting" after the nursery rhyme--- your gelding gets a bulky, low-calorie feed (Equine senior, or soaked beet pulp with a handful of grain or even just continue what you're feeding now) while the mare gets a more concentrated ration that 'packs more punch' with more calories and fat so she needs to eat less to see results.

Think of it as a chunky man eating salad and grilled chicken while his thin wife who needs to gain some weight eats steak, potatoes, and bread. They both finish at the same time, but he got way less calories than she did at the same meal.

We did that for several months when a friend's OTTB's lived with us while she went through a nasty divorce. My stock horses got next to nothing at each meal, while her TB's got quite a bit of high-calorie food to keep weight on, since they'd drop weight at the drop of a hat. Everyone finished at the same time, but my horses got a little scoop of plain oats and vitamin and grass hay, while her horses got several pounds of high-calorie, high-fat feed and alfalfa hay. I put the TB's in the round pen to eat, and the 'air fern' stock horses ate in the pasture.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> No, no.....
> Leave the geldings feed alone in amount and brand/type fed...
> Change your mares to a higher calorie content per pound....kind of like feeding her high-test vs. regular gas.
> Higher fat content will pack weight on her in places needed.
> ...


 ok I will try that out for sure. 


how much is that pennwood?


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

SilverMaple said:


> ^ That.
> 
> We jokingly call that "Jack Spratting" after the nursery rhyme--- your gelding gets a bulky, low-calorie feed (Equine senior, or soaked beet pulp with a handful of grain or even just continue what you're feeding now) while the mare gets a more concentrated ration that 'packs more punch' with more calories and fat so she needs to eat less to see results.
> 
> ...


 Lol I'll definitely be checking at TSC to see what they have there and get her something else or try the pennwood depending on the cost


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

nyg052003 said:


> how much is that pennwood?


Directly from the Pennwoods website:
11 pound pail = $35.95
25 pound bucket = $50.95
44 pound bag = $89.90
I do not know about shipping costs...
I purchase mine locally at a tack shop...it is not carried by everyone but this product is more widely available than once was...check that site and for a local distributor.
I can tell you the 44 pound bag lasts my neighbor between 6 - 9 months and she has 2 horses currently on it but I am also unsure of how much she gives her horses either.
So far my 44 pound bag is 5 months and counting. I am feeding 2 horses it and the bag is just 1/2 gone now.
All I can tell you is it works and lasts a long, long time fed daily as directed.
Hope that helps.

Do your research though as what works for my horse in my location {Florida} may not be the best for your horse is your location. 
I love the product though.
I know it sells around the nation and I think world. 
I've seen it in top show barns of working equine athletes and in backyard barns like mine and still produces great results.
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> Directly from the Pennwoods website:
> 11 pound pail = $35.95
> 25 pound bucket = $50.95
> 44 pound bag = $89.90
> ...


 thanks again and I will definitely get on that as soon as work gets back to normal which should be another week. I tied the gelding last night and gave her more hay. I definitely see that working better in itself.


you said you give a scoop on top of feed. What size scooper? I have I believe a 3 or 4 qt scooper


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

Any images of your horses before and after Horselovinguy?


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

nyg052003 said:


> Any images of your horses before and after Horselovinguy?


I have pictures but not sure I can get to them to post...
They are on photobucket and that site no longer allows sharing and I've had difficultly even retrieving them for my own use already.
Sadly I did not keep them all on the SD card from my digital camera :x...
I'll see if I can figure a way to post them...no promises though it works. :neutral:
:runninghorse2:.....


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> I have pictures but not sure I can get to them to post...
> They are on photobucket and that site no longer allows sharing and I've had difficultly even retrieving them for my own use already.
> Sadly I did not keep them all on the SD card from my digital camera :x...
> I'll see if I can figure a way to post them...no promises though it works. :neutral:
> :runninghorse2:.....


 gotcha gotcha
No smart phone to take pics and post lol? :lol:


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_No, no smart phone.:neutral:_

My cell phone is as basic as basic can be.
Takes lousy quality teeny, tiny pictures too..
All my cell phone needs to do is "brrring...." so I can answer it if I want to and recognize the person calling.
:runninghorse2:....


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> _No, no smart phone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol gotcha. Remember saying at first I don't need a smartphone I have a laptop but it's night and day different I mean you can do everything on it if and it's just so much better faster everything overall LOL


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The scoop comes with the bag of Pennwoods. It is fed by the ounce. 4-6 ounces a day for an idle/mature horse. The serving size would determine how quick she puts on if that is needed and maintaining once she has gained may mean a smaller serving. A performance horse, breeding stallion or mare would get 8 ounces. I would say if you needed a significant gain that may be where you start but if you just need to maintain it could drop. 8 ounces would add 1600 cals so a 44 pound bag would get you 88 days at that serving.


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

QtrBel said:


> The scoop comes with the bag of Pennwoods. It is fed by the ounce. 4-6 ounces a day for an idle/mature horse. The serving size would determine how quick she puts on if that is needed and maintaining once she has gained may mean a smaller serving. A performance horse, breeding stallion or mare would get 8 ounces. I would say if you needed a significant gain that may be where you start but if you just need to maintain it could drop. 8 ounces would add 1600 cals so a 44 pound bag would get you 88 days at that serving.


 Gotcha. 
thanks


----------



## nyg052003 (Oct 11, 2010)

horselovinguy said:


> Directly from the Pennwoods website:
> 11 pound pail = $35.95
> 25 pound bucket = $50.95
> 44 pound bag = $89.90
> ...


I just checked the nearest place to me and about 2 and some change from me, probably about 2 1/2 and they don't carry the pennwood 4000. I didn't ask them if they don't carry any of their products at all either. They did have an Equiade bodybuilder in a 32 oz liquid for $69. Doing some reading up and looking at images, it seems it works also. That drive to Aiken SC would be on the way to my monthly commute to Augusta so wouldn't be out of the way much but then again I could just order online as well and may be cheaper.


From the illustration:
Each 15 ml dose contains 1,000 gamma oryzanol from rice bran oil extract. Directions: under 75 lbs - 1/2 teaspoon daily; 200-400 lbs - 2 teaspoon daily; 400+ lbs - Tablespoon daily. Safe use in pregnant animals or animals intended for breeding has not been proven. Comes with free dosing syringe.
says it's about a 2 month supply but I'd think at a tablespoon maybe 3 months. Even at that rate that's probably significantly more expensive than to go the pennwood route. I called Pennwood directly and they would give me free shipping also since they don't give a military discount. 


There may be other things that work well also so will probably google and see what's out there. But I feel confident getting the pennwood if all else fails.


----------

