# Breaking a 7 year old?!?



## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

Ok so i just got a seven year old geling he is a QH about 14 HH. Real cute (if you look under horse contests hes the horse im looking for a name for lol) he has been trail ridden but that is it... he doesnt really know how to do anything and you can tell hes been abused... now ive broken babies before but not a 7 year old... 

im not sure how to go about starting him.. i mean i know hes been ridden i just dont want to hop on him though.. i wanna build up the trust before i start really doing hard work with him.. i tried lunging him today and he is a strong little brat lol but he seems like he knows basics.. he knows what walk, trot and canter means.... he knows that a whip hurts if your snapped on the rump with it lol and he knows what whoa means... but he doesnt seem to know much more than that.. 

how do i break him without scaring the crap out of him...? ive put a saddle on him (i did that when i went to look at him) and he will let me do everything with it except tighten it up... so yea lol any advice would be greatly appriciated =)


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

First off, throw the abuse out the window. Horses don't understand pity and a strong horse will take it as a weakness on your part. Treat him like you would treat any other horse. Just take it a step slower.

Why wont he allow you to cinch him up? Does he bite...kick...rear? Try doing it in small doses. First allow the cinch to touch his belly. If he tolerates that, give him praise and move on. If you are riding western, allow your latigo to go through the cinch and let it rest on his belly. If he has been trail ridden before, this shouldnt really be a huge issue. 

What would you like to do with him? If he walks, trots and canters in both directions and knows his cues on the ground...he probably knows them under saddle. Teaching him to move away from pressure is a good place to start.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

mjnltnmh said:


> *and you can tell hes been abused...*


Really? How *can you tell* that he's been abused? Unless you have proof positive that he was, that's a nasty, evil thing to accuse of a previous owner.

Seriously, the horse is probably just spoiled, out of shape, and needs a danged tune up and reminded of how to mind his manners. 

If I had a nickel for every 'abused horse' people claim they have, I'd be a rich woman by now!

Plus, get rid of the fuschia font color. Those colors are for tweens, not for someone older than say, 11.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I say, just get on and ride him. "Tip toeing" around him will not really help him. Just be sensitive, and don't confuse or frustrate him


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Really? How *can you tell* that he's been abused? Unless you have proof positive that he was, that's a nasty, evil thing to accuse of a previous owner.
> 
> Seriously, the horse is probably just spoiled, out of shape, and needs a danged tune up and reminded of how to mind his manners.
> 
> ...


Wow...lot of unnecessary animosity in this post...


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

DubyaS6 said:


> Wow...lot of unnecessary animosity in this post...


Nope. I just get sick of the people who say their horse _must_ have been abused, because it's acting like an illmannered puke.

I'd lay odds that 99.9% of all the horses who their owners are convinced _must_ have been abused, are just spoiled and out of shape from lack of exercise.

Accusing a previous owner of abuse is libelous, especially when someone has absolutely *no proof* that abuse ever occurred. 

It's ridiculous and entirely unnecessary to trash someone else's reputation, however anonymously.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

DubyaS6 said:


> Wow...lot of unnecessary animosity in this post...


I don't think so. I see a lot of people ready to scream "My horse was abused!" when their horse has training issues or other things going on that they really don't want to address.

I _do_ have an abused mare. I _saw_ her previous owner beating the snot out of her and she still happens to carry the physical scars to this day. I do not treat her any different then the rest of my horses. Tip toeing around her known issues would have just made them worse. I also have a mare that a friend told me had to of been abused... Was she? Nope, she had a bad experience with a saddle and we are working through those issues. Was the bad experience abuse? Nope the saddle slipped and ended up underneath her.


OP - Like a previous person asked, what exactly is he doing when you go to cinch him up? What about him makes you think he was abused?


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

I get your point, but just think the way you said it was unnecessary.

Especially with the font comment...who cares?

That's all I will say about it...enough thread hijacking.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Just treat him the way you would treat any other horse. Occasionally a horse that is older can be a bit more challenging, but it can still be done. Be firm with him and he will come to respect you. Respect is more important that anything.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

ok thank you for the advice.... and for speed racer wow... i ask for help and you pretty much called me an idiotic child... 1. He has SCARS all over his body where he has had something done to him.. it may have been kicks but the dent on his forehead isnt from some other horse and the scar on his cheek from where someone was careless enough to leave a halter that didnt fit him on him long enough to inbed itself into the skin.. id say he was abused at some point in his life... oh and i like the color pink.... so yea honestly this is a place to get advice for training your horse not a place for you to come to make yourself feel better by bashing people who asked a question in a nice and polite manner... i dont want your advice and i would appriciate it if you would please not comment on my thread again... 

For anyone else who didnt act like i was accusing them of abusing horses.. please more advice would be greatly appriciated =)

SPeed racer i never said anything about the person i got him from abusing him.. i said that he was PREVIOUSLY abused.. i never accused the person i got him from of it... i never named names... you are being rude and it is uncalled for.... seriously.. he isnt out of shape and he knows how to work, he isnt rude or pushy i asked how to break him not for your input on people with abused horses....


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The main thing is don't tip toe around his issues. You have to work through them. Tip toeing around them is just going to make them worse.

Still curious as to what he does when you cinch him up.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

NdAppy - he starts turning in circles and trying to run away.. he doesnt rear or anything he just trys to escape and i cant get him to hold still... lol i posted why i believe he was abused... and the fact that he came from a horse trader who got him from another trader who got him from... another trader makes me believe he wasnt treated the best a horse could have been treated...


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Accusing a previous owner of abuse is libelous, especially when someone has absolutely *no proof* that abuse ever occurred.


 
And you have no proof that it wasn't. I'd say just drop the subject and let it annoy you in secret. There's no need to take your annoyance out on the OP, especially in the rude way you have, by commenting on her choice of font color of all things. 

To the OP, I agree with the "take it slow" comments.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

mjnltnmh said:


> SPeed racer i never said anything about the person i got him from abusing him.. i said that he was PREVIOUSLY abused.. i never accused the person i got him from of it... i never named names... you are being rude and it is uncalled for.... seriously.. he isnt out of shape and he knows how to work, he isnt rude or pushy i asked how to break him not for your input on people with abused horses....


You are the one who opened your thread with "abused horse".

I agree with Speedracer. The word 'abuse' is thrown out every time a horse flinches.

And you want to 'break' this horse?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

mjnltnmh said:


> NdAppy - he starts turning in circles and trying to run away.. he doesnt rear or anything he just trys to escape and i cant get him to hold still... lol i posted why i believe he was abused... and the fact that he came from a horse trader who got him from another trader who got him from... another trader makes me believe he wasnt treated the best a horse could have been treated...


Can you get him lightly cinched up at all or is it as soon as you bring the cinch under him he starts moving off?


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

mjnltnmh said:


> NdAppy - he starts turning in circles and trying to run away.. he doesnt rear or anything he just trys to escape and i cant get him to hold still... lol i posted why i believe he was abused... and the fact that he came from a horse trader who got him from another trader who got him from... another trader makes me believe he wasnt treated the best a horse could have been treated...


 
Then don't ask him to stand still. Tell him to. Either hold the lead in one hand and cinch with the other or get him to tie well and deal with his dancing. He is avoiding. As soon as you let him know that you will not stop simply because he is avoiding...he will stop avoiding! 

As far as SR goes, the abuse thing is absurd. Every horse with marks on them is not abused. And even if they are, it is no excuse. To other horses in the field, he is just another horse. You should treat him the same. You may disagree with words but what I said and what SR said are the same. Don't make excuses for your horse.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

corinowalk said:


> Then don't ask him to stand still. Tell him to. Either hold the lead in one hand and cinch with the other or get him to tie well and deal with his dancing. He is avoiding. As soon as you let him know that you will not stop simply because he is avoiding...he will stop avoiding!
> 
> As far as SR goes, the abuse thing is absurd. Every horse with marks on them is not abused. And even if they are, it is no excuse. To other horses in the field, he is just another horse. You should treat him the same. You may disagree with words but what I said and what SR said are the same. Don't make excuses for your horse.


Agree 100%. And you are right, what you and SR said are the same, however you said it constructively


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am still trying to figure out how a dent in the forehead could not have been done by another horse. Hoof to bone can make dents.


For the record, I have to agree on the font color. It is REALLY hard to read on a white background.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

he lets me get it under him but as soon as it touches his belly he starts dancing...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

My mare (who has never been abused) used to do that. She was very ticklish and had theories about her body being hers and not mine. Ha, silly her. I just had to teach her that it is my body, I just let her use it the other 23 hours a day. 

I used to simply touch her belly a ton. If she danced I moved along with her. Now I can even clean between her teats with out a fuss.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

An idea for you (did this with one of my mares to get her to stand) but you need a round pen.

I take a rope, like a lead rope or whatever, doesn't need to be anything special, drape it over the back and down the side (like a cinch would hang). Grab it and bring it up like you would cinching. When the horse moves, drop the "cinch" end and send him off. Make him move his feet. he can stand when he is being "cinched" up, but if he chooses to move, I would make him _move_ and make it _more_ work to avoid the cinch then it is to stand still.


I hope that made sense as I suck at explaining things I can do and picture doing.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

he lets me touch his belly, i rub all over his belly constantly, thats one of the only places he lets me touch with out being jumpy... ive only had him a couple of days so i didnt expect him to act like ive owned him for years but he is fine with belly touching... just not cinching up the girth...


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> An idea for you (did this with one of my mares to get her to stand) but you need a round pen.
> 
> I take a rope, like a lead rope or whatever, doesn't need to be anything special, drape it over the back and down the side (like a cinch would hang). Grab it and bring it up like you would cinching. When the horse moves, drop the "cinch" end and send him off. Make him move his feet. he can stand when he is being "cinched" up, but if he chooses to move, I would make him _move_ and make it _more_ work to avoid the cinch then it is to stand still.
> 
> ...


Great idea


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

There are 2 ways that I deal with horses who move around when I try to cinch them up and which way I choose first depends on their temperment and their attitude. I will either a) let them move around, I will put the latigo through the cinch and keep it just tight enough to put pressure on the girth, then when they start to move, I will keep their head tipped toward me and let them circle until they stop then I release girth pressure or b) I will run the lead rope through one of the panels of the round-pen and hold onto the other end, that way when they start moving around their head is kept close to the fence and they can only dance back and forth. If you do this though, you need to have a lead rope that is long enough that you can get back out of the way without letting him go if he swings toward you.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

NdAppy i might just try that its a good idea... thanks =) ok now everyone i have a question about his feet... he lifts them up.. but plants them right back on the ground.. then up then down then up then down... i dont have a problem getting them up its keeping them up... do i just hang on and let him throw his fit?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Does he give them easily and is yanking them out of your hands to plant back down?


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

he gives them very easily i just have to put my hand on his foot and say give and give a little tug and up it comes and then he just puts it right down like hes tapping his foot almost if i keep my hand on his foot he gives it right back up... and then down again lol i dont know how to explain it better than that lol


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Well I would hold his foot up, as soon as he stops fighting to put it down I would put it down. And then I would start increasing the time I am holding it until he isn't fighting about it anymore. It can take a while, but repetition is the key there. Make sense?


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

yup thank you... any ideas about getting him better at putting the halter on easier? i had to corner him, pin him against the wall and wait until he stopped fidgeting and then i put it on him but it took like almost a half an hour... lol


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I would say that training him should be the same as training a youngster. Slow and steady.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Not wanting to stand still to be cinched - could be a rib out of place or sore withers.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

hmmm.. i dont know... i will have the vet take a look at him...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

mls said:


> Not wanting to stand still to be cinched - could be a rib out of place or sore withers.


OOhhh I forgot to mention that. Good catch.

Also I think a chiro would be better for the withers or rib out of place then a vet would.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

ok i will get on that... no suggestions on the halter thing? i hate keeping a halter on him when he is inside... and its too much trouble to take it off and spend an hour or so putting back on.. lol


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Just spend time with him, rubbing him all over his neck and face, let him know that you aren't the big scary boogeyman come to eat him alive :lol:. Then, when he is calm about that, start over with the halter hanging over your arm. When he's calm with that, start rubbing him with the halter. Treats are sometimes a big help too, especially if he is leary of having his nose/muzzle touched. I used that on this sorrel mare I'm working with and she is fine with being haltered/rubbed everywhere on her head now.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I second the treats! 

I almost hate to mention it sometimes because folks will say "you should be able to catch your horse without treats." And I can. But with treats they are happy to see me and come right up to me. In other words, treats give them a pleasant, happy attitude. They are happy I am there and happy to be caught. I use treats a lot just for positive reinforcement. I have taught my horses to stand still nicely while being mounted using treats. 

The horse may be suspicious at first, but I bet if you take a treat with you each time you see him, he will love you in no time. 

I think the only time you wouldn't want to use treats is if the horse is pushy and thinks he is in charge and lacks respect. You certainly don't want to reward a bad attitude. But for a fearful or normal horse, treats make them very happy to work with you.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

I don't understand why starting this horse should be approached any differently from starting a youngster. If I were you, OP, I wouldn't be concerned with starting this horse under saddle just yet. It sounds like he has some nasty ground manners; those should be impeccable before you start working under saddle. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

Ive tried using treats with him... He doesnt know what the heck they are.. Lol hes kinda leary about them like hes unsure if they bite or not lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, yeah, sometimes it takes a while for them to figure treats out. I have had good luck with letting them smell them and then letting them try to eat them on their own time. Just hold it there and let him do as he will.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I don't believe the abuse part, sounds from his issues that he has been a spoiled horse and sent from buyer to buyer because the first or second person who "broke" him didn't do it right and rushed things, then created a monster by basically teaching him to act up when being cinched, act up when being haltered, act up when having his feet picked up and everytime it happened and he did his "thing" he was left alone. You sound like the first person who is actually wanting to work through his issues and are making him mind, so he is realizing that you are not a pushover and are dealing with things. I agree , work slow but do things over and over until he deals with it, take lots of little baby steps and just keep doing what you are doing.
As far as the treats, Bones when we rescued him from starvation(note I said starvation, not abuse as some folks would say had happened to him)had no idea what a treat was of any kind, apples, horse candy, grain, he acted like they would jump off my palm and attack him. Blowing and snorting, it was funny to watch, but sad since he obviously didn't know that they were. It took a few days to figure out grain, and about 4 or 5 months to figure out apples and horse candy. Now he loves them. Just keep trying to give them to him, eventually he will figure them out. If you have another horse close by that he can see, give them the goodies and he will eventually want what they have.
We see lots of horses come and go at the vet clinic and when an owner comes in and says abuse, it is usually a case of a horse just pretty much being spoiled and walking over top of their owner. Have seen some real abuse cases and even those can be won over. Your horse sounds more like he has just learned to bully everyone and ususally wins.
I hear the same thing with dogs, "he was abused, that is why he bites people" No, usually he bites because his temperament is garbage and he was able to bite and get away with it"... He was abused that is why he is so shy.. No he was never socialized with people and that is why he is shy". Abuse is usually used when someone can't handle an animal of any size and wants to get rid of it, so they say it was abused and therefore the animal does this and that because of it.... Just a cop out 90% of the time.
Keep working with your new horse and don't be afraid to find someone who has some more experience than you and get help with his issues and to further his training so he can become the horse you want him to be.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

mjnltnmh said:


> ok i will get on that... no suggestions on the halter thing? i hate keeping a halter on him when he is inside... and its too much trouble to take it off and spend an hour or so putting back on.. lol


IT'S TOO MUCH TROUBLE?

Ouch. Not so sure you are the correct person to be taking this horse on.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Oh on the halter thing, please do not leave the halter on him inside. I have seen a few to many accidents recently with people leaving halters on inside and coming back to a dead or severely injured horse.

What type of halter are you using on him? A regular nylon or leather one? Or a rope halter?


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## payette (Jun 3, 2010)

I have a horse who can be difficult to halter, so I just leave a leather shoelace tied around his neck in the field. It is tight enough not to slip forward over his ears, but loose enough not to impede breathing. It would easily break if snagged on anything. 
Also, I make a point of haltering frequently, just to pet him and feed a treat, then turn him loose again, so he is beginning to see me packing a halter and rope out to the pasture as a good thing.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

If he's hard to halter, you should be haltering as much as you possibly can, not avoiding it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

mls said:


> IT'S TOO MUCH TROUBLE?
> 
> Ouch. Not so sure you are the correct person to be taking this horse on.





Sunny said:


> If he's hard to halter, you should be haltering as much as you possibly can, not avoiding it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with both!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

^^ Agree with AB & Sunny. If you have a problem you need to confront it in your training NOT ignore.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

*....*



mls said:


> IT'S TOO MUCH TROUBLE?
> 
> Ouch. Not so sure you are the correct person to be taking this horse on.


 
No thats not it at all... he has to stay in at night so i take his halter off... i work in the morning so when i have to spend half an hour to an hour trying to get his halter back on him before i go to work? yea its kinda a pain in the butt.. 

and why if i say its too much trouble to fight with a horse over a halter should i not be taking him on? i asked for help so i can work through his problems and keep him, i dont wanna give up on him.. its just little things that he isnt sure about i asked how to approach.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

mjnltnmh said:


> No thats not it at all... he has to stay in at night so i take his halter off... i work in the morning so when i have to spend half an hour to an hour trying to get his halter back on him before i go to work? yea its kinda a pain in the butt..


That is when you get up an hour earlier to work on it every day! 

Or you work on it every evening so he gets so good at it that in the morning you can get your extra hour of sleep.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

EXACTLY. We're saying that maybe you shouldn't take this horse on because with a horse like this you will be spending a lot of time with little crap like this. 

Horses with these type of issues are very time consuming and you need to work with them regularly. If you work on this halter issue every single day it should (depending on how ingrained it is) go away relatively quickly. If you only work on it during weekends or whenever you have time it'll stick around for longer.

Horses like this require you to MAKE time for them. If you can't he'd probably be better off with someone who can.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Horses with these type of issues are very time consuming and you need to work with them regularly. If you work on this halter issue every single day it should (depending on how ingrained it is) go away relatively quickly. If you only work on it during weekends or whenever you have time it'll stick around for longer.
> 
> Horses like this require you to MAKE time for them. If you can't he'd probably be better off with someone who can.


Yes. There are no short cuts with horses. You make the time to handle them correctly - or you are better off 100% leaving them be.

I have a full time job. Before I arrive there at 7:30 a.m. - clean and smelling like a person - I have 30+ horses to care for. Feed, clean stalls, any doctoring. I have some I have to lead out - including haltering. I'll be late for work before I neglect a horse.

New horses arrived on Saturday. I was told the owners daughter is the only one that can catch one of the mares. As of last night (Monday) I was already having to push mare out of my way so I can catch another horse in the pen.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

lol if i go over to the barn any earlier its dark out.. im there at like 7:00 i lunge them both (trying to get a good workout regimine and build muscle on both of them), feed, turn them out, fill up water buckets, clean stalls, and feed the cats lol im outta there by like 8:45 and i have 15 mins to get to work... so i know where your comin from mls but i just started my job and im on thin ice from getting sick already... lol 

So i should just spend extra time with him on it?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes I would spend extra time on it. I wouldn't worry to much about other things with him until you get him ground manners under control, i.e. the haltering.

Not saying just work on that, but I would make that my main focus right now until that is better.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

ok so this morning lunging as i do everymorning.. got him to canter!! yay i was sooo excited cuz he hasnt cantered for more than a few seconds for me before... lol and then tonight he didnt do it continously as well but he is still doing good with it.. lol and *drum roll please* he let me take his halter off and put it back on.. and take it off and put it back on a couple of times! i was like yay! good boy! oh and he let me pick up.. and hold his foot.. only one of them i actually got to hold but still thats an improvment from the turning in circles around my friend he did yesterday if i even touched his leg.. hes doing good... the only thing i might be a little worried about is his dependency on one of the mares.. hes a teensy bit too attached... but only sometimes.. yesterday he freaked out i couldnt catch him or anything.. today he came right up to me.. i wonder what tomorrow will hold.. 

If anyone has anyother general advice my probs are feet, cinching, halter and thats about it...other than his attatchment to the one mare... lol


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

mjnltnmh said:


> lol if i go over to the barn any earlier its dark out.. im there at like 7:00 i lunge them both (trying to get a good workout regimine and build muscle on both of them), feed, turn them out, fill up water buckets, clean stalls, and feed the cats lol im outta there by like 8:45 and i have 15 mins to get to work... so i know where your comin from mls but i just started my job and im on thin ice from getting sick already... lol
> 
> So i should just spend extra time with him on it?


Are there no lights at the barn?

I am in the barn at 4am. Dark then even in the middle of summer. 

Halter training can be done in a stall. Get there earlier, work on the halter training, clean the stalls or whatever and then lunge.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Are there no lights at the barn?
> 
> I am in the barn at 4am. Dark then even in the middle of summer.
> 
> Halter training can be done in a stall. Get there earlier, work on the halter training, clean the stalls or whatever and then lunge.


 
ORRRR...work on the halter, cinch and feet issue in the morning and longe in the evening. 

I understand everyone is on a schedule when you have a full time job, so sometimes you need to rearrange your priorities. At this point, I would say the priorities are to get the ground manners under control moreso than the horse's muscle built up...

BUT thats just my opinion :wink:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I agree Dubya. Very good point.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

Currently no lights at the barn... the owner had lights and everything working.. (hes doing the electric himself) and then he ran over the wires with the trencher when he was trying to make a hole to bury them in.. so currently no lights.. lol


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

What is the excuse for not doing the other idea?


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

which other idea? the lunging at night?


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

ok im a teensy sore... i wanted to see what he did if i just saddled him up... no taking it slow and babying him.. he did good with that.. lol then i decided to see what he would do if i got on him... i was just leaning on him and he moved to the side hit his foot on the step stool i was using and jumped over it... i landed on the ground needless to say... its a good thing hes not very tall.. but i got him to calm down and did it again... i didnt sit sit in the saddle just leaned on him with my full body weight.. he was good about it after i fell.. of course i think i probably was a teensy intimidating after i got up from laying on the ground... lol


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

payette said:


> ... difficult to halter, so I just leave a leather shoelace tied around his neck in the field. It is tight enough not to slip forward over his ears, but loose enough not to impede breathing. It would easily break if snagged on anything. ....


I like the leather shoelace idea a lot. I use a catch line for quick trips from barn to field and visa-versa, it is just a 1/2 inch line about 14 feet long with an eye at one end. It is quick and easy to use, and might save you a few minutes in the morning while being of some help in accustoming him to regular haltering too. 

Pass the eye over the neck just long enough so the eye is hanging down at the throatlatch. Push a loop from the near side through the eye and pull the loop out big enough to go over the nose. Snug it up, keeping the eye close to the throatlatch. 
*** important *** you must keep contact or it will loosen and fall off his nose and come undone, then you will have no handle on him at all. There is no knot or buckles.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Great helpful drawings, Anndankev.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

> ok im a teensy sore... i wanted to see what he did if i just saddled him up... no taking it slow and babying him.. he did good with that.. lol then i decided to see what he would do if i got on him... i was just leaning on him and he moved to the side hit his foot on the step stool i was using and jumped over it... i landed on the ground needless to say... its a good thing hes not very tall.. but i got him to calm down and did it again... i didnt sit sit in the saddle just leaned on him with my full body weight.. he was good about it after i fell.. of course i think i probably was a teensy intimidating after i got up from laying on the ground... lol


This utterly baffles me. Why on earth would you attempt to get on this horse now, without a ground person to help? With a step stool instead?


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm baffled that she's concerned with riding when she should be concerned with his ground manners.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

mjnltnmh said:


> ok im a teensy sore... i wanted to see what he did if i just saddled him up... no taking it slow and babying him.. he did good with that.. lol then i decided to see what he would do if i got on him... i was just leaning on him and he moved to the side hit his foot on the step stool i was using and jumped over it... i landed on the ground needless to say... its a good thing hes not very tall.. but i got him to calm down and did it again... i didnt sit sit in the saddle just leaned on him with my full body weight.. he was good about it after i fell.. of course i think i probably was a teensy intimidating after i got up from laying on the ground... lol


 
I understand that you are trying to "train" and help this horse, but I am just going to be completely honest - for whatever that is worth to you.

I really get the impression that you have no business "training" this animal.

You come on here asking for advice and help, which is great, however it doesnt seem like you are listening to anyone. If you cannot even halter this horse EVERY TIME without issues, you have no business saddling or attempting to ride him. You are taking 9835456485 steps back by doing so.

Thats all I am going to say right now :?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

mjnltnmh said:


> of course i think i probably was a teensy intimidating after i got up from laying on the ground... lol


I sincerely hope that statement does not mean you 'corrected' him in any way, shape or form after he moved away from you. The horse did what you asked - you applied pressure and he moved. The stool in the wrong place was human error.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

I was hoping she meant that she was a little intimidated...

Hopefully!


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

Ok 1. I got on his back because when i get a horse, i see how much they know what they can do and what they tolerate and i move from there. I was seeing if he would allow me to get on him because he was supposedly trail broke but from i went through yesterday i can see i was lied to.

2. i had a person holding him he was completly tacked still had a halter on and a lead rope so he could hold on to him without pulling on the bit. she was pushed out of the way when he jumped to the side.

3. i used a step stool so i didnt actually have to get in the saddle so that i could just lean on him it was a little box pretty much that i was using.. he isnt very tall but i was doing what ive done with any other horse ive worked with... standing on something next to them and leaning on them if they move away i stay on and slide off when they stop moving.. once they hold still i will attempt to sit on them.. if they throw me i get back on.. if they are good i walk in a circle with them get off and praise them accordingly.. 

4. i am listening to the advice given to me.. i went over their yesterday and spent like an hour and a half just taking his halter off and putting it back on.. he is great now he puts his head in the halter for me.. this horse is very smart he knows what i want he is just afraid at first...

5. i didnt reprimand him when he dropped me i got up put my hand out and he walked over to me... i patted his neck told him it wasnt his fault he got scared, i wasnt mad but we were doing it again.. and guess what.. he stood there until i got off of him... 

what ive learned with him is if he does something to get me to leave him alone.. i.e. throw his head and dance like a doof when i go to put his halter on if i keep it up hes like oh.. that doesnt work with her ok im good.. in a way its kinda like someone said on another thread you have to get over the OMG its gonna eat me phase and go to the oh ok im good with this phase... 

I came to you guys with questions because those were the things i knew he had problems with... halter, feet and cinching... i got him over the halter fear, the feet are gonna take longer and in order to go to the next step i had to get him past the cinching thing... so i didnt ask for help on getting on him.. i know what im doing there ive dealt with throroughbreds before i know how to ease them into things... i hadnt gotten a chance to inform you all about what i am doing.. everyone has ways of training horses.. i have my way i see what they know i go from there.. i ask if i get stuck... it may not be the correct way but i havent had any complaints so far... if you all would have let me explain why i did what i did you wouldnt be so *"baffled" *about it... but everyone has their own opinion so let me know what you think im doing wrong im gonna hear it anyways....


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

mjnltnmh said:


> i know what im doing there ive dealt with throroughbreds


 I'm sorry....but what does this have to do with anything? Because you've "dealt" with a horse of the same breed that means you can deal with this one? Breed has nothing to do with it. _Training_ is what it has to do with. And I mean your training, not the horse's.


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

^^ meaning i have dealt with large hot headed animals.. im now dealing with a 14HH 7 year old QH...


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

mjnltnmh said:


> ^^ meaning i have dealt with large hot headed animals.. im now dealing with a 14HH 7 year old QH...


All TBs aren't "large and hot-headed."


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## mjnltnmh (Sep 19, 2010)

the ones ive dealt with were


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

mjnltnmh said:


> ^^ meaning i have dealt with large hot headed animals.. im now dealing with a 14HH 7 year old QH...


Which means???

Not all TB's are 'hot' and not all QH are 'calm'. A horse is an individual and needs to be treated as such.

It's odd how you add things in later. Such as having the extra person there . . .


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

mjnltnmh said:


> the ones ive dealt with were


How many might that be? Two?

I have a very _not_ hotheaded TB. Lazy as the day is long, in fact. From what I understand, this is how the majority of TBs tend to act. The 'hotheaded' ones are apparently few and far between.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> I have a very _not_ hotheaded TB. Lazy as the day is long, in fact. From what I understand, this is how the majority of TBs tend to act. The 'hotheaded' ones are apparently few and far between.


I have to agree. Being from a hunter background in an area near a TB track I have dealt with many-a-TB.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Asking for advise is a good thing, I do it all the time. But I am a little concerned about the advise you are asking for especially as you said that you have started horses before and are going to be training this horse. 
Halter training, girthing and picking up feet are very basic things and you would know how to do these already if you had started young horses before. 

Please find a trainer in your area.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

AlexS said:


> But I am a little concerned about the advise you are asking for especially as you said that you have started horses before and are going to be training this horse.
> Halter training, girthing and picking up feet are very basic things and you would know how to do these already if you had started young horses before.
> 
> Please find a trainer in your area.


Amen Alex, Amen.


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

For the cinchy issue, you need to have the horse's attention on you. Which may require some groundwork before hand to accomplish this. Once you have his attention, not wore completely out, put the saddle on his back, and pull the cinch under his girth area, and hold it with your hand snug against him. As long as he moves around hold it there, when he stops release the tension from the cinch. Keep working on this, when automatically stands still, use the latigo to snug up the cinch slightly, don't just snug it up all the way. Do it in stages, not all at one time. Just always make sure that before you start, you have his attention on you.

On the feet issue, when you pick up his foot, instead of trying to hold it by the leg, palm his foot in your hand that is closest to him. Think of palming a basketball. You'll have his toe in your finger tips. This allows great mobility of your arm, and you can move with him as he tries to take his foot back. As soon as he relaxes, drop his foot. Don't place it on the ground, but drop it. Keep repeating and he'll get where he relaxes and lets you keep the foot longer and longer.

With the halter issue, repetitively putting it on and taking it off should work. Always remember to stop on a good note each day. When he lowers his head into the halter, that's about as good of a note as you can get, so that would be a great time to stop each day.

Don't rush through any of these processes. If you don't have time to work with him patiently before work, you should just leave it until after work, when you will have more time. Rushing through training is where mistakes and bad habits are made. Just remember, to stay calm, and he should too. If it takes 5 minutes great, but if it takes 2 hours, oh well.

Good luck!


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

AlexS said:


> Asking for advise is a good thing, I do it all the time. But I am a little concerned about the advise you are asking for especially as you said that you have started horses before and are going to be training this horse.
> Halter training, girthing and picking up feet are very basic things and you would know how to do these already if you had started young horses before.
> 
> Please find a trainer in your area.


 Ding, ding, ding! Bingo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Here's why I was baffled -

Accepting the girth and accepting have their head and feet handled indicate basic submission. Based on my moderate experience breaking horses, including breaking long yearlings for the track in a fairly short time frame, it's unwise and unsafe to mount or even belly over a horse that you haven't established basic authority over. I include "respect for the human body" meaning staying out of my space and simple voice commands under basic submission. 

And that's for a green, unhandled horse. Your horse is a reclaim, having been badly or incorrectly handled before. That makes establishing authority over the horse even more important. 

That's one, but not all of the things, about your post that bothered me. 

You're in over your head with this horse. Get competent help.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

maura said:


> You're in over your head with this horse. Get competent help.


Winner, winner, chicken dinner! :clap:


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Um... wow.  I wouldn't even know where to begin replying to this thread. I'm just going to say AlexS said it just about perfect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for the agreement guys, I am new here so didn't know if I had gone to far in what I said to the OP. 

I have never broken a horse, but I do know what to do if they won't pick up their feet, or do not like a halter being put on or take off. 

I worry about the OP as I think she might have more confidence than experience and this horse could really hurt her at some point.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

AlexS and Maura...I *heart* you both.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Awww thanks!


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