# What are your religious beliefs?



## themacpack

I'm an other - I believe in a higher power and an afterlife, but I haven't really been able to pin it down beyond that as to just who/what that higher power is, etc. I don't "worship" in any particular way but try to live by the "golden rule" mindset as opposed to any particular doctrine of how one should live.


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## Sunny06

I belong to the Chuch of Christ aka Non-denominational. I beleive in baptism for the remission of sins and do NOT beleive in once saved always saved.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

Oops, forgot a "spiritual" option, I guess that will have to fall under "other"


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## Tennessee

I'm a Christian. Specifically, southern baptist.


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## Brighteyes

I'm not super religious, but I have a few things that I stick with that is a little different that most Christians. 

- The Bible says to pray everyday. I follow this, but, for me, prayer means contract with God, not bowing down and singing at the top of your lungs, "Praise Jesus!" So, I 'pray' by speaking to God like a friend. Like, "Thanks for that, that could have ended up bad," or "Wow, that's amazing." I very rarely bow down and pray because I think that leads to hypocritism. (If that's a word.) 

- Cursing/Drinking/etc. isn't your one way ticket to hell. It's not good, but it isn't like, "Gasp! She's insulting God through her enjoyment of life on earth!"

- I don't hate people. I know lots who are like, "People are evil and should all go to hell and burn and die and burn and die again!" People were made my God in his image. Sure, we sin and so bad things, but we aren't 'evil.' We are God's kids and we should respect ourselves as such.

- Creation is as it says in the Bible. Have some faith. Seven days. Seven 24 hour days and everything came to be. Species change, but horses don't turn into donkeys and lizards don't turn into birds. 

- I don't know everything and I really don't care. Hell, I'll find that out once I'm dead and talking to Jesus. I'm going to enjoy earth and do what I believe is my God sent mission. 

All in all, I make religion my own. I don't go to church every week because I don't agree with everything they say. I read the Bible by my self and ask for wisdom. That's how all my 'crazy' beliefs came to be.


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## Sunny06

What's the difference between baptist and southern baptist? *innocent question*


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## Kentucky

I am a Christian, do I always live perfectly or the way I should: NO! I fail regularly to live up to it. I generally try to have a live and let live attitude about it. I do get tired of some Christians having a holier than thou attitude toward others. I also get tired of people say this or that is in the Bible and it is not. I don't care what your have heard. And yes I have heard this in my personal life and seen it on here, from both sides.

example: drinking the bible doesn't say thou shall not drink, it speaks about drunkness. And there is allot of others.


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## Spastic_Dove

Agnostic in that I believe there is something out there but I don't know what. 
I guess you could say I am a little bit of everything.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

I'm agnostic/athiest. I don't really believe there's a God or "greater being", but I'm not going to argue against it, and if someone gave me cold hard facts I'd be likely to believe. My dad is REALLY religious, so here's hoping he never finds out I athiest/agnostic, I think he'd either die on the spot, or spend the rest of his life lecturing to me and piling "god books" on me. 

He's one of those annoying christians who thinks spreading the word means trying to push people into christianity


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## TaMMa89

I'm Christian - officially Evangelical Lutheran.

It's a bit hard to explain how I believe at the moment. Somehow I've lost my belief but somehow I believe there's God up there. No, I don't feel it's agnosticism but I still count myself as Christian.

Personally I'm one of those 'loose' Christians who don't follow Bible literally. For me it's a book which has been meant to tell the essence of Christianity - about Jesus and what He did.


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## Spastic_Dove

Brighteyes said:


> Species change, but horses don't turn into donkeys and lizards don't turn into birds.


So do you believe in Dinosaurs then? (Birds pretty much used to be lizards in that regard). 
So pretty much you believe God made all the animals, and then the evolved? 
(Just not sure if I understood you right)


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## Sissimut-icehestar

I'm agnostic/athiest.. because I really don't believe in a God in heavens or gods in Ásgarður, but I'm not ready to completely rule out some form of something greater than us.


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## Tennessee

Sunny06 said:


> What's the difference between baptist and southern baptist? *innocent question*


 
lol. That is a GREAT question. I honestly have no idea. I have always thought Southern Baptists were just Baptists that lived in the south, but my friend told me that we are a little bit stricter than regular Baptists.

Honestly? I have no idea.


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## Sunny06

Ha ha, I'm going to look it up


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## MIEventer

I am not religious what-so-ever. Have nothing to do with man made organizations and man made beliefs.

I am Spiritual.

I think outside of the box, I do not allow powers of this world to surpress me into the box.


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## Sunny06

Southern Baptist Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They said it was primarily conservative so maybe ALL Southern baptists are conservative? I have no clue..

OH! You beleive in baptism! ...Right? Reg. Baptist is primarily anti-baptism (funny because it's name originated form baptism). So I guess that's one of many differences...? Who knows.


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## Tennessee

Sunny06 said:


> Southern Baptist Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> They said it was primarily conservative so maybe ALL Southern baptists are conservative? I have no clue..
> 
> OH! You beleive in baptism! ...Right? Reg. Baptist is primarily anti-baptism (funny because it's name originated form baptism). So I guess that's one of many differences...? Who knows.


That's true. Most of the people in my church are hardcore conservatives. There are those odd balls out though. lol.

And yes, we believe in Baptism, but I thought ALL Baptists did? lol. 

My grandfather is a Primitive Baptist preacher and they believe in Baptism. 

I don't know though. lol.


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## welshpony15

I do not have a religion.. well, I guess there is a name for that but I just like to think of myself as a 'nothing' person. I've grown up in a very non-religious family, however when I was younger I went to a christian kids club and youth group for many years (because my close friend is SUPER religious). But this ended up having the opposite effect on me. The information that is meant to make you become more involved in christianity quickly turned me against it.

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against those with religious beliefs  As I said, my best friend is a living/breathing christian. 

I'm a 'here and now' person- I dont care where I came from, and I sure as heck dont care where I'm going once I'm dead


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## Sunny06

Huh.. The baptists _here_ SURRREE don't beleive in it.. Is the church you go to actually _called_ a 'southern baptist' or 'church of christ'? Because the CoC beleives in baptism. That is interesting though..

Well, you learn something everyday!


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## Tennessee

Sunny06 said:


> Huh.. The baptists _here_ SURRREE don't beleive in it.. Is the church you go to actually _called_ a 'southern baptist' or 'church of christ'? Because the CoC beleives in baptism. That is interesting though..
> 
> Well, you learn something everyday!


 
Southern Baptist.


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## roro

Atheist. Grew up in a very loosely christian family, although my brother is an atheist as well. I've been this way for as long as I can remember, as a kid I revered the whole god/bible/jesus thing the same as, say, the gingerbread man.


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## Sunny06

Tennessee said:


> Southern Baptist.


Oh ok then.. Hmm.. Dunno


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## Gillian

I'm Jewish. Although, as I've gotten older I don't find myself believing in a god or supreme being whatsoever. I will still always consider myself Jewish however, it's part of who I am. I find religions fascinating, and love learning about all different kinds, their beliefs, holidays, stories, etc. I'm actually taking a World Religions class right now and love it.


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## close2prfct

I'm Christian, I grew up in a somewhat strict pentecostal home, my mom was a preacher. She is one of those that will drive you mad with religious reference and beat you on the head with the bible types. I am a lot more lax in my life, I believe in God, I believe Jesus died for our sins, baptism, the Holy Spirit, and healing.
Healing takes on a greater importance to me because when I was a small child 4yrs old I went into a coma the doctors didn't know if I would ever wake up or not they diagnosed me with diabetes for 3 yrs I was on insulin shots and in & out of hospitals. One night as we were getting ready for church I told my mom "Jesus was going to heal me" well I was prayed over and maybe it takes the mind of a child to truly believe I don't know but needless to say the next morning I threw my insulin away and asked mom to take me to the bakery I wanted a donut!! I've not had a problem with my sugar level since.


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## Brighteyes

Spastic_Dove said:


> So do you believe in Dinosaurs then? (Birds pretty much used to be lizards in that regard).
> So pretty much you believe God made all the animals, and then the evolved?
> (Just not sure if I understood you right)


Let me see if I can explain this better...

I believe that species adapt. Natural selection sort of. If a bird with a stronger beak is better for its environment, then it will survive and thrive. Yes, it's evolution in a sense, but there's a catch.

I don't believe that humans came from apes. Humans are humans, apes are apes. Humans change, apes change, but they don't change into each other.

Same with dinosaurs. Dinosaurs are, as said, dinosaurs. They are not birds, they never were birds. Completely different. 

Sorry if that's not a very good explaination, but I can't find a good way of wording it.


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## Sunny06

close2prfct said:


> I'm Christian, I grew up in a somewhat strict pentecostal home, my mom was a preacher. She is one of those that will drive you mad with religious reference and beat you on the head with the bible types. I am a lot more lax in my life, I believe in God, I believe Jesus died for our sins, baptism, the Holy Spirit, and healing.
> Healing takes on a greater importance to me because when I was a small child 4yrs old I went into a coma the doctors didn't know if I would ever wake up or not they diagnosed me with diabetes for 3 yrs I was on insulin shots and in & out of hospitals. One night as we were getting ready for church I told my mom "Jesus was going to heal me" well I was prayed over and maybe it takes the mind of a child to truly believe I don't know but needless to say the next morning I threw my insulin away and asked mom to take me to the bakery I wanted a donut!! I've not had a problem with my sugar level since.


What a beautiful story! :grin:


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## Spastic_Dove

So kind of like survival of the fittest without the evolution? Interesting.


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## wild_spot

I don't really like the idea of any man made religion. I can't imagine living my life to anyone elses directives, be it a god or a person.

I don't really contemplate a higher being very often. Sure, they may be there, I guess i'll find out when I die. I live my life as if it's the only chance I get.


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## close2prfct

Thanks Sunny
I don't often talk about it unless the opportunity such as this comes up. I remember the lady at the bakery telling me "honey you can't have those remember?" I looked at her with a huge grin told her oh yes I could and what had happened she broke out in tears and I got my jelly filled donut!


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## HorseSavvy

Christina, specifically Roman Catholic.


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## Saskia

I believe, I think, in an omnipotent, omniscient being that created things from the beginning, like the big bang, not directly. But in directly, theoretically, an omniscient being would know what the result of such an action would be. 

I believe humans learn right and wrong (good and bad) and while they are not a fixed point they are still just a relevant to the life and survival of humans. I don't think that any being would judge the choices that we have made, but perhaps it judge our reactions to them, and how we responded within ourselves.

I believe science shows us how "god's" (for lack of a better term) world works, and the rules this god has placed in it. There are still questions though, things just don't add up, and I believe that at the heart of it all there is more than just chaos. 

I believe in an afterlife, I think, not segregated into good and bad or anything, just something more.


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## ridingismylife2

I'm atheist. I believe in evolution. 
But I do kinda believe in an afterlife, but not heaven or hell.


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## Spastic_Dove

I think you can believe in evolution and God at the same time.


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## ridingismylife2

but I don't believe in god.


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## eventerdrew

I'm definitely Agnostic. I'm not Athiest per say. Sometimes there are things that I just cannot explain... but for the most part... I think the higher power thing is a bunch of hooey. And I hate how some religions tie you down (i.e. gay marriage is wrong)

I know it isn't exactly religion... But I am a strong believer in evolutionism

I am all for the idea of gay marriage ( I have 2 very close gay friends and a gay family member) and I'm extremely pro-choice.

I'm about as liberal as you can get. Go ahead, call me a hippee


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## Equus_girl

I'm a Seventh-day Adventist. I believe (as the name suggests) that Saturday (the seventh day is the Sabbath according to the Bible. I believe in the resurrection - that Jesus will come the second time to take his people home to heaven. I also believe that those who die are sleeping, not in heaven or hell. I also do not believe in an everlasting hell. I am a Creationist and do not believe in evolution.


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## Sunny06

I also believe that those who die are sleeping, not in heaven or hell.

^ That is a good way to put it  I do too.


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## wild_spot

Sunny06 said:


> I also believe that those who die are sleeping, not in heaven or hell.


I noticed in another post somewhere you mentioned that the punishment for some sin was hell... I'm confused now.


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## Equus_girl

I do believe that people will be punished for their sins with hellfire if they have not repented and became converted and followed God. But my Bible tells me that it will not be an everlasting punishment. Even the devil does not suffer forever. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction was called everlasting fire so is hellfire at the end. We know that Sodom and Gommorrah are not still burning today. So will it be at the end I believe.


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## wild_spot

^ Ok, that makes sense.


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## Spastic_Dove

Yeah, I saw that. I meant that I think it's possible in general though. Evolution is pretty much a scientific fact so it's hard to wrap my head around those who do not believe it exists. Maybe they're right, but it's just hard for me to comprehend. However, I think there is always a posisbility of the "God created all the creatures" thing then those creatures changed and evolved. 

...Im rambling whoops!


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## Brighteyes

Actually, evolution is not a 'fact', it is a theory. (_Theory_ of Evolution.) It has its flaws, just as everything in science does. 

Very little in this area of science is a rock solid, stand-true fact. Mostly because we cannot experience and replicate what happens in the past. The past cannot be proven and whatever you think happened back there must be accepted by faith. Everything. If you don't believe there is a god, then you must accept that through faith because you can't disprove religion. If you believe there is a god, you must accept that through faith because you can't prove religion either. All of this is kind of a gray area between proven fact and proven fiction. 

Dang, bad ramble. Sorry everyone.


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## Kentucky

This is another theory Intelligent Design Network :: Seeking Objectivity in Origins Science but because evolution is thought by some people as fact and not many people have hear of it.


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## roro

Gravity is a theory too. But can you disprove gravity? Not really.


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## Brighteyes

roro said:


> Gravity is a theory too. But can you disprove gravity? Not really.


 
Gravity is actually a law, not a theory. Well, it use to be a theory, but since gravity is in the here and now and can be tested, it became a natural law.


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## hollybee

i'm not sure what i believe at the moment :S lol

i was baptised in a roman catholic church & also did my holy communion when i was 7, i am half italian - therefore the italian side of my family are quite religious hence going to a roman catholic primary school & secondary school . . .
but a lot of things happened in my life which made me doubt god around the age of 9 / 10, and i didn't really believe anything for a while - i just questioned

i then started to research pagan / druid beliefs around the age of 14 and since then have been a bit of a hippie haha

i just don't understand how there are so many different religions (buddhist, catholic, church of england, hindu, sikh, rastafarian, jewish and so on and so forth . . .) and each has a different story, god and way of life behind it . . .

personally, i think religions we're "invented" (for want of a better word) because peoples lives were hard and they needed something to help them, people have a natural fear of being alone and that probably had something to do with it aswell, also peoples fear of death / not knowing - they needed comfort in their lives for everything they were scared of

(obviously, just my personal opinion lol)


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## TaMMa89

Spastic_Dove said:


> I think you can believe in evolution and God at the same time.


Agree.


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## Sunny06

^ How? Isn't the theory evolution created from 'nothingness'?


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## eventerdrew

what do you mean nothingness? I think it's quite the opposite actually. Seems like creationism is made out of nothingness.


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## Spastic_Dove

Yes, I realize it is a theory, thats why I said "pretty much". I think evolution has more scientific backing so that you're not just having faith when you believe in evolution. I'm really not trying to get into an evolution vs creationist thing here, but I was saying it's hard to wrap my mind around the idea that people do not think that animals evolved and changed. 
Someone on here said it nicely before that God created the animals, and then they evolved. 
As far as if you think the earth came from the big bang or God made it in 7 days, that is a different story. My meaning was that I think everyone can believe that animals have changed and evolved regardless of how they got there in the first place. Birds were dinosaurs at one point. Horses used to be much smaller. Animals (including humans) have changed both through natural means and natural selection as well as human based breeding (IE: Breeding for taller horses, smaller dogs, etc). 

Do you at least get what I am trying to say?


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## eventerdrew

Humans share 98% of ape DNA. Fact.

kdone


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## TaMMa89

Spastic_Dove said:


> Yes, I realize it is a theory, thats why I said "pretty much". I think evolution has more scientific backing so that you're not just having faith when you believe in evolution. I'm really not trying to get into an evolution vs creationist thing here, but I was saying it's hard to wrap my mind around the idea that people do not think that animals evolved and changed.
> Someone on here said it nicely before that God created the animals, and then they evolved.
> As far as if you think the earth came from the big bang or God made it in 7 days, that is a different story. My meaning was that I think everyone can believe that animals have changed and evolved regardless of how they got there in the first place. Birds were dinosaurs at one point. Horses used to be much smaller. Animals (including humans) have changed both through natural means and natural selection as well as human based breeding (IE: Breeding for taller horses, smaller dogs, etc).
> 
> Do you at least get what I am trying to say?


I've heard somebody to say that evolution tells _how_ and Bible (or if you want to take it objectively then religions/beliefs) tells _why_.


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## roro

"faith in science" as you say is not the same as faith in religion/god/higher power. I have this "faith in science" because there is physical evidence. faith in religion is something you choose to believe in with no physical evidence. Saying that god spoke to you is not physical evidence, saying that god wrote the bible is not physical evidence. Ancient hominid skulls are physical evidence. I see no physical evidence in god and I just don't like the christian system, so I am an atheist.


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## hollybee

humans also share 95% DNA with bananas

haha


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## Tennessee

Evolution is BS to me.


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## Sunny06

^ That was uncalled for. I do not beleive in it, but do you see me blatently attacking it? No.


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## Sunny06

roro said:


> Saying that god spoke to you is not physical evidence, saying that god wrote the bible is not physical evidence. Ancient hominid skulls are physical evidence. I see no physical evidence in god and I just don't like the christian system, so I am an atheist.


Ok. Where and how was that skull created?


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

roro said:


> "faith in science" as you say is not the same as faith in religion/god/higher power. I have this "faith in science" because there is physical evidence. faith in religion is something you choose to believe in with no physical evidence. Saying that god spoke to you is not physical evidence, saying that god wrote the bible is not physical evidence. Ancient hominid skulls are physical evidence. I see no physical evidence in god and I just don't like the christian system, so I am an atheist.


Very nicely put! This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

Evoluton is fact. Evoluton from individual cells into more advanced creatures, and from dinosaurs to birds, THAT's opionion.

Evolution is species evolving. Even something as simple as birds evolving to have longer beaks, or strongers beaks, is evolution. Natural selection 'chooses' those specimens with the best 'tools' for survival to live and breed, producing more of the traits. eventually these specimen evolvews enough to be a new species. This has happened with the lemurs on madagascar, for example


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## Sunny06

What did it evolve from? What was the first 'thing' created to reproduce it's cells into other stuff?


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## eventerdrew

Just because you don't agree with evolution doesn't mean you have to blatantly attack it. I don't agree with creationism but you don't see me completely bashing it either. Be respectful of other people's beliefs. My biggest pet peeve is when someone tries to shove their beliefs down my throat.


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## hollybee

no one knows, in truth, how anything was created

i for one think it's absolute poppycock to say that "god" created everything but that's just my opinion

as someone said, there is no proof - yes we have proof of evolution, but there is no proof of god at all

and turning that back round and saying "where did that skull come from ?" wont get anyone anywhere, its the whole chicken & egg thing all over again - bones aren't proof that god made us

we have no answer as to why and how we are here


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## Sunny06

eventerdrew said:


> Just because you don't agree with evolution doesn't mean you have to blatantly attack it. I don't agree with creationism but you don't see me completely bashing it either. Be respectful of other people's beliefs. My biggest pet peeve is when someone tries to shove their beliefs down my throat.


I was NOT the one calling evolution BS, therefore I am assuming this wasn't directed towards me.


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## Sunny06

hollybee said:


> and turning that back round and saying "where did that skull come from ?" wont get anyone anywhere, its the whole chicken & egg thing all over again - bones aren't proof that god made us
> 
> we have no answer as to why and how we are here


I wasn't trying to be difficult, I'm just thouroughly confused...

And the BIBLE says how we got here.. Unless you don't believe the Bible. Then is might seem a bit odd to un-believers.


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## hollybee

every book of every different religion has a different story of to how the world came to be - so no i don't believe the bible


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## roro

Sunny06 said:


> What did it evolve from? What was the first 'thing' created to reproduce it's cells into other stuff?


Can you rephrase that using correct vocabulary? I can't tell what you are asking.


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## Sunny06

roro said:


> Can you rephrase that using correct vocabulary? I can't tell what you are asking.


How was the first object [ever] made? What was it? How does it reproduce? Do you even know?


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## Brighteyes

roro said:


> Can you rephrase that using correct vocabulary? I can't tell what you are asking.


I believe Sunny meant, and correct me if I'm wrong, "What is the origin of life? If everything came from something, how did the first living thing get here?"


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## hollybee

no one knows


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## Sunny06

Thank you, Brighteyes.


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## Sunny06

hollybee said:


> no one knows


So you're following a religion you don't know? 

Many will say we don't know there is a God, but why else would there be so many Bibles hanging around? It isn't a cult, and it is a good explanation, IMO. We haven't always been here forever...

I dunno it's hard explaining it to an atheist who hates God...


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## Amba1027

Where did God come from? Sorry if that sounds a little mean or something. I'm not trying to be, I'm just saying it goes both ways.


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## Sunny06

Amba1027 said:


> Where did God come from? Sorry if that sounds a little mean or something. I'm not trying to be, I'm just saying it goes both ways.


Good question! 

For us humans, having been [made] by something (God), we can not fully comprehend anything beyond what we have been living in (earth). We can not think past anything being made. It is the boundary of our imagination. Think about it. Were humans always here? No. To God [followers], we know God was always here, and out of the blue, decided to 'amuse' himself by making us. So God was always there (in who knows where probably heaven or simply his own little habitat) and made us thousands of years ago. 

So who created God? Nobody. He's always been here. That is so hard to believe because we have no true knowing of 'forever'. God does, but apparently we do not. 

Does that make _any_ sense or am I rambling?


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## Amba1027

No that makes sense. 

So if it's possible for something (God) to just BE without having been created, then why can't that be possible for the universe (or some part of it)? And while we're on the subject of the universe, why did God create so much? The earth and humans are just a very teeny tiny part of it. What's all the rest for?


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## Sunny06

Amba1027 said:


> No that makes sense.
> 
> So if it's possible for something (God) to just BE without having been created, then why can't that be possible for the universe (or some part of it)? And while we're on the subject of the universe, why did God create so much? The earth and humans are just a very teeny tiny part of it. What's all the rest for?


Because to me, God made everything, so it is hard for me to think that something just 'happened' without Him making it. 

Why did He create so much? Because He felt like it. No other reason. Perhaps for us to be able to explore His world and to enjoy it and to be finding new things.


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## wild_spot

I can actually see some merit in the idea that 'something', some higher being, or some entity, put the big bang into motion. I beleive in evolution, but I belaive that there was a catalyst that created the big bang, and I see it as feasible that it was 'something'. I know that the books are very factually incorrect, but I like the ideas behind Dan Browns book Angles and Demons. The idea that Science and God can co-exist, and that science can bring us a surer way to experience, or at least open our mind to an 'entity'. I try not to use God for the name, because I don't beleive in God as most religions do, i.e. a person/person-like figure who judges our actions. I see it more as a benevolent being, maybe even just a conciousness... I don't know. I haven't really defined my own beleifs. But I did really like the viewpoint presented in Angels and Demons. I'll try find a quote...



> SCIENCE AND RELIGION ARE NOT AT ODDS
> 
> SCIENCE IS SIMPLY TOO YOUNG TO UNDERSTAND


Can't find anymore, but the idea that genesis and evolution can co-exist is an interesting idea.


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## Amba1027

Sunny06 said:


> Because to me, God made everything, so it is hard for me to think that something just 'happened' without Him making it.
> 
> Why did He create so much? Because He felt like it. No other reason. Perhaps for us to be able to explore His world and to enjoy it and to be finding new things.


Ok. Thanks for sharing.


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## Brighteyes

Sunny06 said:


> Good question!
> 
> For us humans, having been [made] by something (God), we can not fully comprehend anything beyond what we have been living in (earth). We can not think past anything being made. It is the boundary of our imagination. Think about it. Were humans always here? No. To God [followers], we know God was always here, and out of the blue, decided to 'amuse' himself by making us. So God was always there (in who knows where probably heaven or simply his own little habitat) and made us thousands of years ago.
> 
> So who created God? Nobody. He's always been here. That is so hard to believe because we have no true knowing of 'forever'. God does, but apparently we do not.
> 
> Does that make _any_ sense or am I rambling?


 
Wow, incredible win. 

I've never had it explained like that before. I guess I've learned something.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

Sunny06 said:


> So you're following a religion you don't know?
> 
> Many will say we don't know there is a God, but why else would there be so many Bibles hanging around? It isn't a cult, and it is a good explanation, IMO. We haven't always been here forever...
> 
> I dunno it's hard explaining it to an atheist who hates God...


I know you are not talking to me, but I want to point out that evolution is not a religion:wink: I think there are many things in life we don't know NOW, but that's what science is for, to find those things out. Heck, people didn't know why things fell down at one point or how babies were made

I think there is religion because in hard times people feel the need to think there is something "more" to life. Gods are also used to explain things to people who do not have the knowlege to explain it in any other way (such as a chariot pulling the sun across the sky, now we know it's not true)

By definition, an athiest cannot hate god, because an athiest does not believe in a god to hate.


----------



## roro

to answer Sunny's question:
The big bang formed from a very hot and dense state and spread out. As time continues, the universe continues to spread. Life began from mutations in geysers as the universe cooled down. Yes, the big bang theory is not set in stone. But as times continues science will improve and I am confident that scientists will have a very specific Timeline and unarguable proof. In the early days, people believed that the world was flat. Then someone had a theory that it was round and did experiments to test this theory, and people began to believe the earth is round. Now we can confirm it with photos of earth from space. Same thing with the earth rotating around the sun, earlier people used to believe that the sun rotated around the earth. Note that the bible was written in these early times. I think that as science advances there will be very little debate about how life started etc. I do not believe that the big bang theory is correct because of faith, this is an assumption based on the past and physical evidence we have today. As time continues, people will become less and less religious, religion may eventually die out. It is already radically different from the conservative catholicism in Europe during the medieval times, this is because science provided answers and people began to think for themselves.


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## toadflax

Another agnostic/atheist, I thought I'd chime in just for the sake of balance .
The natural world provides me with all the spirituality I desire. I have never felt the presence of a 'God' in my life, and believe that if there does happen to be one he will know what's important about me.


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## IheartPheobe

I'm Jewish, for now. Not really old enough to decide what I want to be- but my family is Jewish and I go to synagogue when I have to. I'm really not very religious, don't really know much about my religion, but I believe a few of things they about at services and such.


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## toadflax

roro said:


> Note that the bible was written in these early times. I think that as science advances there will be very little debate about how life started etc.


It is striking to me how much the bible reads like ancient Roman & Greek mythology if you read them comparatively. I would agree that it was born of the same psychological processes.


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## lsucajun8

I am Episcopalian. I am religious but I am not a person that necessarily goes to church every Sunday or anything. I do enjoy going to my specific church very much and I like my priest a lot...he relates to every day life in his sermons. My family and a few of my friends that are Episcopalian have sort of a tradition of certain days that we usually Always try to go to service....Easter Sunday, Palm Sunday, Christmas eve and a few other days.

I say my prayers every day. Like someone said before, I try and oray like talking to a friend sort of....Like, thank you for keeping me and my family safe, etc.


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## roro

I have been answering a lot of christian questions politely but now it's my turn to question. So...
How can you prove that Jesus converted water into wine? Why can it not be recreated?
Why do you believe in Christianity and not Greek mythology? What makes greek mythology or another religion unbelievable to you? (although I know the answer already)
Why is it that Christians can ask Atheists questions without a thought of courtesy but we must treat you like fragile insecure humans?
Do you find that god should be mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America? Why?
Can you explain how your god created everything in 7 days? 
Why do you put so much faith in a bible that was written thousands of years ago but do not use anything else created in that era because we have more efficient creations now?
The average IQ of a Christian is lower than that of an Atheist. Why do you think this is?
I will probably think of hundreds more the second I post this. Answer as many as you can please.


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## hollybee

i second everything roro said



> So you're following a religion you don't know?
> 
> Many will say we don't know there is a God, but why else would there be so many Bibles hanging around? It isn't a cult, and it is a good explanation, IMO. We haven't always been here forever...
> 
> I dunno it's hard explaining it to an atheist who hates God...




You clearly didn't take the time to read my original post about my religious beliefs, dont worry though, i'll make it simple for you -

*I don't follow any religion,* this doesn't mean that i hate god, it means that i don't believe in god and personally i think people like you need to get their head out of the clouds and stop being so narrow minded towards other peoples beliefs - i have accepted that you are a christian - that's your choice and i respect that

I have no particular religion at the moment and you should be mature enough to *accept & respect* other peoples beliefs

This is meant to be a discussion, not an argument


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## Sunny06

So the Big Bang theory means everything just 'appeared' out of nowhere? 'Bang'? What cause that bang?


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## Sunny06

hollybee said:


> i
> 
> I have no particular religion at the moment and you should be mature enough to *accept & respect* other peoples beliefs
> 
> This is meant to be a discussion, not an argument


I cannot see how you can say that. I think I have been extremely good about this, considering I do not understand it ONE bit... I haven't tryed to push my religion on anybody, I'm just looking for answers. At least I'm not calling it 'BS' like others have. I've capitalized 'Big Bang'. Nobody did that for 'God'.


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## hollybee

i havent called it BS
& i don't believe the big bang theory

i don't know how the universe came to be, how dinosaurs were here, how and why we are here - and i probably never will, and i'm not interested in it enough to get wound up about this discussion

if people believe their god made us - that is their BELIEF
and if people believe in the big bang - that is a THEORY that they believe

people are entitled to believe what they want, there is no right or wrong answer

all we have proof of is evolution, i'm not questioning why we are here, i'm the one who said from the start no one knows how the universe came to be

and




> Many will say we don't know there is a God, but why else would there be so many Bibles hanging around?


 
That that really doesn't mean anything, there are loads of Harry Potter books hanging around - doesn't mean there's a boy flying round on a broomstick doing spells all over the place does it ?


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## toadflax

hollybee said:


> there are loads of Harry Potter books hanging around - doesn't mean there's a boy flying round on a broomstick doing spells all over the place does it ?


I'll be chuckling over this all day...


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## roro

*grabbing christians* answer my questions okay? thanks


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## Spastic_Dove

Hey now, I've been capitilizing God even though I hardly ever capitilize my own name and I'm not religious. 
This is why I fit best into agnostic. How we came to be and what happens to us when we die is just beyond the human realm of understanding. I can't pretend to understand it. I don't know how the world came to be. I don't think it was created in a literal seven days just because archaelology and science show us the world was around for much longer than humans. If you want to say the seven days thing is figurative, I respect that. 
It's hard for me to understand the concept of there ever being nothing. If it is the big bang, something had to create it (gasses, heat, etc). If there was God, (and this is something that used to warp my mind when I was in 5th grade religion class) there had to be something before him or something that made him. I understand everyones going to say "No, God has always been" but I have never been able to be comfortable with that answer. 

I have tons of questions for religion, but they are all questions no one can answer for me because they all come down to faith and "God has a plan".


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## whitetrashwarmblood

I believe in evolution. 

I also follow the Big Bang theory.
(From Wikipedia 
Without any evidence associated with the earliest instant of the expansion, the Big Bang theory _cannot_ and _does not_ provide any explanation for such an initial condition; rather, it _describes_ and _explains_ the general evolution of the universe since that instant.

I think there may be a god out there, or at least some place we go to in the afterlife. 
My family is extremely non-religious. The only time I've ever gone to church was if I stayed over at a friend's house Saturday night, and had to go with them the next morning.


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## Amba1027

Sunny06 said:


> So the Big Bang theory means everything just 'appeared' out of nowhere? 'Bang'? What cause that bang?


This was my point in asking where God came from. Why is it ok that you believe He was just always there but other people need explainations for where things came from?


----------



## Walkamile

roro said:


> I have been answering a lot of christian questions politely but now it's my turn to question. So...
> How can you prove that Jesus converted water into wine? Why can it not be recreated?
> Why do you believe in Christianity and not Greek mythology? What makes greek mythology or another religion unbelievable to you? (although I know the answer already)
> Why is it that Christians can ask Atheists questions without a thought of courtesy but we must treat you like fragile insecure humans?
> Do you find that god should be mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America? Why?
> Can you explain how your god created everything in 7 days?
> Why do you put so much faith in a bible that was written thousands of years ago but do not use anything else created in that era because we have more efficient creations now?
> *The average IQ of a Christian is lower than that of an Atheist*. Why do you think this is?
> I will probably think of hundreds more the second I post this. Answer as many as you can please.


 
Just curious where that bit of info came from and what type of study was conducted and the number involved?


----------



## roro

Walkamile said:


> Just curious where that bit of info came from and what type of study was conducted and the number involved?


Here's a link to a brief overview of studies on the subject:

Intelligent people tend to be more religious.

More links:
High IQ “turns academics into atheists” Pink Sunshine
Study: Higher IQ=Atheist?

So, can you answer the question?


----------



## 1dog3cats17rodents

I think the average IQ of athiests is higger because for the most part they have to have the intelligence to question the world around them and the intelligence/education to understand scientific answers.

I'm not calling christians stupid (my VERY religious dad finished top in his medical class) but there are a lot of very poor and also very "*******" people who have little education and think Jesus created shotguns and beer cans (slight exageration, lol) These types of people are less likely to be athiest because they do not have the intelligence/education to understand scientifical answers


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## roro

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I think the average IQ of athiests is higger because for the most part they have to have the intelligence to question the world around them and the intelligence/education to understand scientific answers.
> 
> I'm not calling christians stupid (my VERY religious dad finished top in his medical class) but there are a lot of very poor and also very "*******" people who have little education and think Jesus created shotguns and beer cans (slight exageration, lol) These types of people are less likely to be athiest because they do not have the intelligence/education to understand scientifical answers


lol no Christians are answering ANY of my questions! Why are they avoiding me?


----------



## Walkamile

roro said:


> I have been answering a lot of christian questions politely but now it's my turn to question. So...
> How can you prove that Jesus converted water into wine? Why can it not be recreated?* Can't prove it, can't disprove it , called Faith. Why can it not be recreated, it was a miracle performed by Jesus.*
> Why do you believe in Christianity and not Greek mythology? What makes greek mythology or another religion unbelievable to you? (although I know the answer already) *I appreciate all religons, but would like to know the answer you already know. *
> Why is it that Christians can ask Atheists questions without a thought of courtesy but we must treat you like fragile insecure humans?*This is just too broad, and a bit condesceding. I have only experienced this from a few very insecure and close minded Christians, and have experienced disdain from a few non-believers. Most are open to a healthy exchange of views.*
> Do you find that god should be mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America? Why? *This country was founded by people seeking freedom from persecution of religious beliefs. Do I personally care if God is mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America, not really. He is in my heart.*
> Can you explain how your god created everything in 7 days? *This is not to be taken literally, that was basic info in any religious theory class. Remember, the old testement was purely an oral history, no written word than.*
> Why do you put so much faith in a bible that was written thousands of years ago but do not use anything else created in that era because we have more efficient creations now? *Depending on the religion, some follow parts concerning food and drink to the letter. God gave us intellegance to improve our lot and help our fellow man. To not move forward is a waste of that gift.*
> The average IQ of a Christian is lower than that of an Atheist. Why do you think this is? *Read the "study" , not conclusive. But, I do believe it is important to always question everything. Free will is a gift.*
> I will probably think of hundreds more the second I post this. Answer as many as you can please.


Roro, while I am not your typical Christian, I consider myself a Christian because I do believe in Christ. I however, stay clear of any organized religion because of the corruption of man and his never ending need of power. Yes, some of the worst examples of this are in organized religions. With that said, I do not look down on anyone that does belong to one. We all have our own path to follow, and will each face our maker based on how we conducted ourselves here. 

I'm sure others can answer your questions better than I, but I gave you what I truely believe.


----------



## Sunny06

'How can you prove that Jesus converted water into wine? Why can it not be recreated?'

*Because He is God. We aren't God.* *Therefore, we are not able to. Why else do you belive in what you beleive? Faith. *

'Why do you believe in Christianity and not Greek mythology? What makes greek mythology or another religion unbelievable to you? (although I know the answer already)'

*Mhm.. Because it's Christianity is fact. Mythology is myth.*

'Why is it that Christians can ask Atheists questions without a thought of courtesy but we must treat you like fragile insecure humans?' 

*I don't see where you got this idea. If someone said to me 'Your religion is hogswallup', I* *wouldn't bat an eyelash. I beleive firmly in what I beleive in. Therefore, I wouldn't care one bit what others think of me. And I am not expecting you to tip-toe around me and I'm not going to tip-toe around you; I am solely looking for answers that no one is giving me. I wasn't rude or 'uncourteous'. I want answers.*

'Do you find that god should be mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America? Why?' 

*I don't really care. I think He should be recognized, but I don't see what the big deal is about the whole thing.*

'Can you explain how your god created everything in 7 days?'

*It's called 'God'. He's powerful. He is not human.*

'Why do you put so much faith in a bible that was written thousands of years ago but do not use anything else created in that era because we have more efficient creations now?'

*Name something reliable created in that time that isn't the Bible. What would the 'efficient creations' be now?*

'The average IQ of a Christian is lower than that of an Atheist. Why do you think this is?'

*Truthly? I think that is rude and has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.* *Get over yourself.*


----------



## Sunny06

Amba1027 said:


> This was my point in asking where God came from. Why is it ok that you believe He was just always there but other people need explainations for where things came from?


I suppose you didn't see my answer before. Go back and read if you are interested. I am not going to re-write it again.


----------



## Sunny06

Spastic_Dove said:


> If it is the big bang, something had to create it (gasses, heat, etc).


Ditto. Reason why I simply can't comprehend.


----------



## Sunny06

All in all it's one big catch 22.

God-follower asks atheist why they beleive life came out of nothingness.

Atheist asks God-follower what God is and how does He make everything. 

God-follower says 'Bible', but that means nothing to an atheist, so one cannot explain it to an atheist.

I think we can reach the conclusion that each have our own beleifs; complex and not easy to explain.


----------



## Amba1027

Sunny06 said:


> I suppose you didn't see my answer before. Go back and read if you are interested. I am not going to re-write it again.


I did read it. I was trying to elaborate on that point but I guess I didn't explain it very well.


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## Spastic_Dove

That is the same reason I can not understand God. I can't understand either version.

As far as Mythology being Myth, it's really as provable/disprovable as Christianity. Same goes as native american relgion, pagan religion, Islam, or any other religion. 
Where is the difference?


----------



## roro

Saying that Christians are intellectually inferior is not what I mean, I mean that on average people who are more religious have lower IQs. Many, many studies have been done and they all have very similar conclusions. How about you get over your self. Intelligent people tend to be more religious. Your response to the water to wine question was 'because he is a god' I thought jesus was supposed to be the son of god.
Walkamile and sunny, I would take your arguments more seriously if it was not full of spelling errors and other mistakes.
Sunny-
'Do you find that god should be mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America? Why?' *I don't see what the big deal is about the whole thing. *Yeah, okay. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it if money said NO GOD on it.
And indeed, you do appear to be touchy on talking about/defending your religion. I would answer more of your replies but frankly they are too vague for me to respond to. I am not expecting to convert anybody or anything, I just want some clean and logical discussion.


----------



## roro

sorry my computer is crashing :/
Walkamile- I appreciate your feedback. The 'answer that I already know' is because of Europe. Spain, England, France- all countries that conquered other countries and spread their culture, including their religion. Therefore, Christianity became the 'superior' religion and the native religions became inferior. People born into Christian families are very likely to stay Christian because, well, that is what they are used to and what is normal. I have always wondered how many Christians there would be now if they were all raised by atheist or non-Christian families.


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## hollybee

> 'How can you prove that Jesus converted water into wine? Why can it not be recreated?'
> 
> *Because He is God. We aren't God.* *Therefore, we are not able to. Why else do you belive in what you beleive? Faith. *
> 
> 'Why do you believe in Christianity and not Greek mythology? What makes greek mythology or another religion unbelievable to you? (although I know the answer already)'
> 
> *Mhm.. Because it's Christianity is fact. Mythology is myth.*
> 
> 'Why is it that Christians can ask Atheists questions without a thought of courtesy but we must treat you like fragile insecure humans?'
> 
> *I don't see where you got this idea. If someone said to me 'Your religion is hogswallup', I* *wouldn't bat an eyelash. I beleive firmly in what I beleive in. Therefore, I wouldn't care one bit what others think of me. And I am not expecting you to tip-toe around me and I'm not going to tip-toe around you; I am solely looking for answers that no one is giving me. I wasn't rude or 'uncourteous'. I want answers.*
> 
> 'Do you find that god should be mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America? Why?'
> 
> *I don't really care. I think He should be recognized, but I don't see what the big deal is about the whole thing.*
> 
> 'Can you explain how your god created everything in 7 days?'
> 
> *It's called 'God'. He's powerful. He is not human.*
> 
> 'Why do you put so much faith in a bible that was written thousands of years ago but do not use anything else created in that era because we have more efficient creations now?'
> 
> *Name something reliable created in that time that isn't the Bible. What would the 'efficient creations' be now?*
> 
> 'The average IQ of a Christian is lower than that of an Atheist. Why do you think this is?'
> 
> *Truthly? I think that is rude and has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.* *Get over yourself.*


You haven't proved anything there, you've just given your opinion
Answering questions with "because he is god" doesn't mean anything


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

I always hate the "because he is God" response

If we said "it just happens" a christian would argue and say that's not proof. You can't argue against evolution because we have only some proof, and then say "he's God".

And...
'How can you prove that Jesus converted water into wine? Why can it not be recreated?' _Because He is God. We aren't God. Therefore, we are not able to. Why else do you belive in what you beleive? Faith._ 
*Actually, I believe in scientifical facts. So basically, there is no proof*

'Why do you believe in Christianity and not Greek mythology? What makes greek mythology or another religion unbelievable to you? (although I know the answer already)' _Mhm.. Because it's Christianity is fact. Mythology is myth._
*Christianity is faith, not fact. It can not be indisputably proven, therefore it is not fact. Mythology might be myth to you, but not to the thousands who lived by those beliefs*

'Why is it that Christians can ask Atheists questions without a thought of courtesy but we must treat you like fragile insecure humans?' 
_I don't see where you got this idea. If someone said to me 'Your religion is hogswallup', I wouldn't bat an eyelash. I beleive firmly in what I beleive in. I wasn't rude or 'uncourteous'. I want answers.
_*I would like answers too. REAL answers, not "because he's God. Educate yourself, there are real answers out there (my dad teaches classes on this stuff, I wouldn't doubt I know more on the subject then most believers)*
'Do you find that god should be mentioned in the pledge of allegiance/money in America? Why?' _I don't really care. I think He should be recognized, but I don't see what the big deal is about the whole thing._

_*How would you feel if you were required to say "one nation under Allah" or "One nation under no God"*

_
'Can you explain how your god created everything in 7 days?'
_It's called 'God'. He's powerful. He is not human._
_*Again, not a real answer. Most christians educated on the ubject agree, with a scientifical base, that this is figurative, not literative. Ever heard the "sun wasn't created yet, days could have been millions of years" argument?*
_
'Why do you put so much faith in a bible that was written thousands of years ago but do not use anything else created in that era because we have more efficient creations now?'
_Name something reliable created in that time that isn't the Bible. What would the 'efficient creations' be now?_
_**snort* Code of Hammurabi, Justinians Code (not quite the same time) writings on mythology and judaism. basically a TON of stuff, some before the bible. You might not believe in the religous writings, but they are just as credible as the bible*_

_*Hmm.. some stuff. Tractors, planes, computers, cell phones, electricity.... I could go on forever about advances in technology*

_
'The average IQ of a Christian is lower than that of an Atheist. Why do you think this is?'
_Truthly? I think that is rude and has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Get over yourself._ 
*This is a debate about faith vs. lack of faith correct? So yes, it is relevant. Please answer the question (did you read my response on the subject?) And how is it rude? It's not her opinion, it's a study*


----------



## Sunny06

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I always hate the "because he is God" response


Then I cannot help you. Read the Bible; if you don't beleive in that, then I can't get you answers.


----------



## MIEventer




----------



## Spastic_Dove

So since the virginity thread is trying to stray away from the religion debate, Sunny could you answer my question here? The quote you posted about consequences for pre-marital sex included punishment being a stoning. If you follow the bible, do you believe those who participate in pre-marital sex be stoned? What about divorcees?


----------



## MIEventer

Huh - judgemental sons of b's

Yeah Sunny - doesn't the bible also state "he who is free from sin, cast the first stone"

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. 

“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; 

"Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?" 

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. Don't play the religious bible bull**** game with me - do not play the hollier than thou game with me. I've studdied that book from cover to cover and studdied allot of Religous and Biblical History in College and University.


----------



## Spastic_Dove

Also: 



 Really interesting book to see some of the things in the bible and how one would have to live to follow them.


----------



## Sunny06

'Saying that Christians are intellectually inferior is not what I mean, I mean that on average people who are more religious have lower IQs. Many, many studies have been done and they all have very similar conclusions. 

*I seriously don't know why you brought this up. Has nothing to do with subject. *

'How about you get over your self.' 

*Well bless your heart.*

Intelligent people tend to be more religious. Your response to the water to wine question was 'because he is a god' I thought jesus was supposed to be the son of god.'

*Jesus, God, Holy Spirit are a trinity; one body. So in a sense, same thing.*

'Walkamile and sunny, I would take your arguments more seriously if it was not full of spelling errors and other mistakes.'


*Was on different computer. Can't help I'm horrible on moniter-key boards. And mistakes? This is not spelling class. I'm not perfect. At least I don't talk in text speak.*

* '*Yeah, okay. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it if money said NO GOD on it.'

*No. There wouldn't be any point in mentioning God in it at all. Just put the president and dollar amount and call it quites. And we were talking about the pledge not money. The dollar bill does have religious symbols in it. However, if the states feels the urgent need to remove it, it's their decision. I really and truly would not care. *

'And indeed, you do appear to be touchy on talking about/defending your religion.'

*Of course I am to a degree. It's natural. You are; [most] everyone is.* 

'I would answer more of your replies but frankly they are too vague for me to respond to. I am not expecting to convert anybody or anything, I just want some clean and logical discussion.'

*Looks like the feeling is mutual. Still haven't gotten the answer to how the Big Bang happened; and the only answer I can give is 'read the Bible'.*

*Or... Does God Exist?*

*It's the same on both ends. Don't try and dump all the unanswered questions on me. You all have your own as well.*


----------



## Sunny06

Spastic_Dove said:


> So since the virginity thread is trying to stray away from the religion debate, Sunny could you answer my question here? The quote you posted about consequences for pre-marital sex included punishment being a stoning. If you follow the bible, do you believe those who participate in pre-marital sex be stoned? What about divorcees?


Stoneing=old form of punishment of death. Like lethal injection todays.

Divorces have their place. There are immoral reasons and biblically correct reasons. Depends on situation.


----------



## Spastic_Dove

Yeah, understood. So I suppose the question is do you believe those who have sex before marriage should be punished by death? 

Correct me if I am wrong, but are the only bibical reasons adultry? And then the one who was cheated on can divorce but not the other way around?


----------



## 1dog3cats17rodents

The thing is, you are not correct in saying there are no better answers. There are many more answers then "read the bible" "because he's god" Believe me, my dad teaches classes on apologetics, there are facts if you educate yourself. The facts don't satisfy me, but there is alot of info on both sides. Part of the reason I would never tell my dad I'm an athiest is that he would spend the rest of his life pouring books, documents, and other literature on me that provide answers (REAL answers). He doesn't get that "spead the word" doesn't mean "stuff the word down people's throats"

And people did answer the Big Bange question, the answer is people don't know. That is why it's a theory.


----------



## Sunny06

MIEventer said:


> Huh - judgemental sons of b's
> 
> Yeah Sunny - doesn't the bible also state "he who is free from sin, cast the first stone"
> 
> “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
> 
> “Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
> 
> "Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?"
> 
> You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. Don't play the religious bible bull**** game with me - do not play the hollier than thou game with me. I've studdied that book from cover to cover and studdied allot of Religous and Biblical History in College and University.


How did I judge? JDI asked for an explanation. I gave one.

And how the heck am I being 'holier than thou'? It's a bible verse. I didn't write it...

This is exactly what comes to mind when I think 'atheist'. One who gets all mad over nothing! Have I completely lost my cool? No. Actually, I'm sick and tired of talking about this. Everything I have to say is just turned around in rubbed in my face. I believe what I believe. Nobody will change it, and I can't always get the point across because I'm so... angry. 

If I were to hand [you] a Bible, you wouldn't care would you? You don't believe it.. So there you go. Again, cannot give you explanation of how God got here.


----------



## Spastic_Dove

Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to rub anything in your face. I'm actually curious.


----------



## 1dog3cats17rodents

Oh, for those that don't know, apologetics is "a field of Christian theology that aims to present a rational basis for the Christian faith, defend the faith against objections, and expose the perceived flaws of other world views"


----------



## Sunny06

Spastic_Dove said:


> Yeah, understood. So I suppose the question is do you believe those who have sex before marriage should be punished by death?


All I can say is, if they really and truly feel bad and want to repent (_truly _repent. Not just say 'sorry') become christian, etc, then no. Now, the impression I get in that verse was the 2 didn't feel bad about it. Then that may be diferent. I'm not God. HE will be the one to decide in the end. Not me.



> Correct me if I am wrong, but are the only bibical reasons adultry? And then the one who was cheated on can divorce but not the other way around?


One is cheats another: The one who was cheated can remarry. Cheater cannot.


----------



## MIEventer

> *Jesus, God, Holy Spirit are a trinity; one body. So in a sense, same thing.*




No they are not. Do your research.

The Heavenly Father alone is the true God, and he created his Son Jesus Christ. It was God who lead the "supossed" Hebrews out of Eqypt. It was God who gave Moses the power. It was God and God alone.

God was before Jesus, Jesus came after. Jesus is NOT God, he is the Son Of God. 

They are seperate Beings - not the same. Seperate. 

Proverbs 8:22 and John 14:28 (the Father is greater than I) 

Who did Christ speak to continuously throughout his life on earth? His Father - whom is a seperate being. What did Christ continously state while he was on earth? That he was there to do the work of his Father, who is greater than he. Christ prayed continuously to his father - whom again, is a seperate being.

Do you want to know where the "Trinity" b/s came from? Look back to your ancient Greek era. A philopher named Alexander claimed that Chris was the same substance as the Heavenly Father - and that's where it started. 

MANY christian beliefs today, started from somehwere - look to your Egyptian Philosophers, your Greek and Roman.

There have been MANY docterates written on this subject from top Biblical Historians. Do your research.

The Holy Spirit is the white force the Heavenly Father emits. His active force of power. 

Do your research. No where in your bible does it even state the word Trinity. That is just a made up title made by man.
They are 2 seperate Beings, with use of the force.


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## Sunny06

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> The thing is, you are not correct in saying there are no better answers.


Alrighty. Like what? There is archeological evidence, but could it be a coincedense [sp?]?



> And people did answer the Big Bange question, the answer is people don't know. That is why it's a theory.


Shall we call God a theory as well? That would settle it.


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## Spastic_Dove

Okay yeah, that's what I thought. 
As far as God judging you for if premarital sex is wrong or not, that makes sense. Killing off people who have premarital sex (think it's okay) seems wrong. Sort of like taking the law (God's law?) into your own hands. 

Thanks for explaining!


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

MIEventer, you are proof that actual answers (for or against a subject) are much more convincing. People should be educated about their religion before trying to fight for it (or against it)


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## Sunny06

MIEventer said:


> No they are not. Do your research.
> 
> The Heavenly Father alone is the true God, and he created his Son Jesus Christ. It was God who lead the "supossed" Hebrews out of Eqypt. It was God who gave Moses the power. It was God and God alone.
> 
> God was before Jesus, Jesus came after. Jesus is NOT God, he is the Son Of God.
> 
> They are seperate Beings - not the same. Seperate.
> 
> Proverbs 8:22 and John 14:28 (the Father is greater than I)
> 
> Who did Christ speak to continuously throughout his life on earth? His Father - whom is a seperate being. What did Christ continously state while he was on earth? That he was there to do the work of his Father, who is greater than he. Christ prayed continuously to his father - whom again, is a seperate being.
> 
> Do you want to know where the "Trinity" b/s came from? Look back to your ancient Greek era. A philopher named Alexander claimed that Chris was the same substance as the Heavenly Father - and that's where it started.
> 
> MANY christian beliefs today, started from somehwere - look to your Egyptian Philosophers, your Greek and Roman.
> 
> There have been MANY docterates written on this subject from top Biblical Historians. Do your research.
> 
> The Holy Spirit is the white force the Heavenly Father emits. His active force of power.
> 
> Do your research. No where in your bible does it even state the word Trinity. That is just a made up title made by man.
> They are 2 seperate Beings, with use of the force.


I said 'in a sense'. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the words 'same thing'. May have been too literal sounding.

Do you actually _believe_ what you write? Or simply trying to bash another? 

I don't have all the answers. Never said I did never will. But the three* are* related [to God].


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## MIEventer

I believe what I write, because I've studdied it. 



> Alrighty. Like what? There is archeological evidence, but could it be a coincedense [sp?]?


What archeoligical evidence? I woud like to know - for my Grandmother is an Archiologist and so was my Grandfather *R.I.P* I was educated by the both of them - one thing that I was taught was to not believe what someone says, but to study and research it for myself to find out the facts.

I choose to not follow a book written by mankind. I choose to not follow a book that King James, the brother of Queen Mary Of Scotts - because he wanted the book to coincide with his views of woman and his views of power.

Same with King Henry the 8th - do your reasearch - these men of Royalty had more power than the church. 

Did you know that there should be 5 more books in your bible. Did you know that Mary herself wrote a book, but it was taken out by the church? Did you know that Judas even wrote a book, to show people his side of the story, and that was taken out. There were books written by others who were a big part in Christs life when he walked this earth - but they were taken out as well.

How can you put faith into a book that isn't even complete?

A book that has no archiological standing.

For one, did you know that archiologists actually proven that the Pyramids were not built by Hebrew Slaves, but by Eqyptian Men who were hired by the Pharoah himself. 

There is plentitude of archiological proof to stand by this new revelation.

There is also archiological proof of the whole "Adam and Eve" theory as well. You'd be quite astonished to learn the truth.

Does that make me an atheist? Absolutely not. I believe that we have a Heavenly Father and I do believe Christ did walk this earth.

But I choose not to put my faith into a book that was written and moulded to conform - by the hands of corrupt mankind. 

There is FAAAAAAAAARRRRRR MORE to this universe than that book.


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## Sunny06

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> People should be educated about their religion before trying to fight for it (or against it)


I know what me _religion_ is. The Holy Ghost, God, and Jesus being related or not was not something I was so called 'fighting for'. I wasn't fighting for my religion either.

It's impossible to know everything. I am by far the smartest person on the planet with all the answers. So don't make a huge deal because I make a mistake, ok? Because I do make them. All the time. We all do.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

I wasn't even referring to you but...

"I am by far the smartest person on the planet with all the answers"

Really? You actually think you are the smartest person on the planet? Wow...


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## Sunny06

MIEventer said:


> How can you put faith into a book that isn't even complete?
> 
> A book that has no archiological standing.
> 
> But I choose not to put my faith into a book that was written and moulded to conform - by the hands of corrupt mankind.
> 
> There is FAAAAAAAAARRRRRR MORE to this universe than that book.


You aren't supposed to put your faith in a book alone. God here. That is the whole subject. GOD; book helps. And really, the Bible isn't asking much of you. Just to become a christian, live a good life and follow His guidelines. It is probably how we should live anyway...

Although I REALLY thought I remembered you saying you didn't believe in the 'God thing'..? I guess not. 

So I've made some mistakes.. We ALL have. I'm not perfect. We are all figuring more and more out as we go on. It's impossible to know everything. I apologize if I've offended you, although I think this should be reversed. All you've done the whole time is find every verse in the Bible to prove how horrible I am. Well, have fun. I'm still not perfect.


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## Sunny06

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I wasn't even referring to you but...
> 
> "I am by far the smartest person on the planet with all the answers"
> 
> Really? You actually think you are the smartest person on the planet? Wow...


Here it goes again... *nit pic nit pic*

NO! I'm just making it clear that I am stupid. There ya go. Happy? 

I don't even look at myself as 'smart'. Let alone a 'God'. How could you...?


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

I'm not nitpicking, nor am I calling you stupid. I just can'e believe anyone would say they were the smartest person on the planet. It appears that was a typo, in which case I apologize


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## Sunny06

> What archeoligical evidence? I woud like to know - for my Grandmother is an Archiologist and so was my Grandfather *R.I.P* I was educated by the both of them - one thing that I was taught was to not believe what someone says, but to study and research it for myself to find out the facts.


Oh, you know. Flood remains and stuff in that nature... But they can be faulty and not 100% always true. I find myself struggling on the archeological stuff... God-wise, I don't always think everything shows up quite right..

This dosen't make sense.

Ok. Like the gopher wood being there from the boat? Yes, that could be from another flood and not from a boat at all.. Make sense?


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## Sunny06

1dog3cats17rodents said:


> I'm not nitpicking, nor am I calling you stupid. I just can'e believe anyone would say they were the smartest person on the planet. It appears that was a typo, in which case I apologize


I was not referring to me being the smartest person on earth. There you go. No typo about it.


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## Brighteyes

Discuss - to present your side of an issue. 
Debate - to offer facts backing up your beliefs. 
Argue - to attack another person's point of view. 
Fight - to attack another person. 

Is it just me or is this on the fast track towards a fight...


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## Sunny06

I've apologized (over a few things although not everything was my fault). I meant it. Let's just forget this whole thing and go back to the original topic.


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## Nutty Saddler

My religious beliefs are my own - and so I don't offend anyone else I will keep them to myself ( and believe me when I say that people would be offended )

Religion is like politics - most people have their point of view and listen very little to those that differ from theirs - everyone thinks that theirs is the true belief and millions have died as a consequence. 

Oh and MIE - if you think that the pyramids were built by the pharaohs that's another thing to talk about


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## Spastic_Dove

^Scientologist? 

Religions are so interesting. It's a shame they get so controversial. =/


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## Nutty Saddler

not to sound stupid but what exactly is a scientologist.


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## Spastic_Dove

I don't know too much, thats why I was hoping you were one so you could clear it up.


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## MIEventer

> Oh and MIE - if you think that the pyramids were built by the pharaohs that's another thing to talk about


Nutty, I, my Father, Grandparents, Friends, Husband all feel the same way. I know exactly what you are talking about - and that is why I say there are WAAY MORE to this universe than the religious box likes us to know.

Look at Michealangelo's and Leonardo Da Vinci's paintings - and tell me what you see.

Don't get me started Nutty, lol.


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## Spastic_Dove

Ahhh! I'm confused, enlighten me!


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## Nutty Saddler

MIE - I don't know or look at any of those things, so I can't comment.

I have however looked at a little place in south america that is either as old - or older than the pryamids. It sort of looks like a huge airfield an no one can explain how it got there.


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## MIEventer

I sent you a message on Facebook.


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## toadflax

Sunny06 said:


> I've apologized (over a few things although not everything was my fault). I meant it. Let's just forget this whole thing and go back to the original topic.


Or, we could discuss politics, nobody would get fired up about THAT .


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## Sunny06

Lol, _riiiighhtt_...  *rolls eyes*


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## lizzie_magic

I am athiest. I belive religion is close minded.


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## Nutty Saddler

To believe that all religions are closed minded is being closed minded yourself.
I am not a religious person myself - this does not mean that I think that all religions are a waste of time - I do think however that some of them have been perverted into ' clubs ' that seek only money and power, and use peoples need to believe in something to attain their goals, sometimes with little or no regard for the consequences.


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## Equus_girl

If you do not believe in the Bible, it will be hard for you to believe what I believe is true. I will give you some texts from the Bible that will hopefully clear up some of what has been brought forward here. I just want to present what the Bible says on these topics - not start any fight or argument. I believe that everyone has to study for themselves and let God lead them in their life. So please, do not take my word for it – go to the Bible and study it with prayer and God will lead you.

 
First about the adultery, Leviticus 20 tells what is to be done in these cases – yes they are to be put to death. But we do not live in those times anymore. Things have changed. Not that is is any less evil in the sight of God, but people are not put to death for these things anymore in our society. It will be at the end that those will receive punishment for their sins if they have not repented, turned away from those sins and been converted.

 
Now, about God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I have a different belief than what has been brought forward so far here. First, I believe that all three are God. They are three persons that form the Godhead. They each have different roles to perform. It is like in a marriage. The man and wife are one flesh and equal, yet are different in their roles that they perform. It is the same with the Godhead. God the Father has His role, God the Son (Jesus) has His role (he is the mediator between us and the Father), God the Holy Spirit has His role (he is the comforter and has been sent to lead and guide us into all truth).  

 
When talking about the divinity of Jesus these Bible verses are insightful. John 1:1-3. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and with out him was not any thing made that was made.”

 
We know Jesus created the world – he is the “Word”. John tells us the the Word is God and was in the beginning with God.

 
Hebrews 1:8-9 says, “But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever... God even Thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.”

 
Did Christ exist before he was manifested in the flesh?
“And now, O Father, glorify Thou Me with Thine own self with the glory _which I had with Thee before the world was.”_ John 17:5.

 
How does Christ Himself speak of His relation to the Father?
“I and My Father are one.” John 10:30

 
How was He manifested on the earth as a Saviour?
“For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.” (Luke 2:10,11) “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us. John 1:14

 
How was the divinity of the Son of God shown?


In His creative power. - Colossians 1:13-16; John 1:1-3
By His power to perform miracles. - John 11:43-44
By His right to lay down His life and take it up again. - John 10:17
By His being recognized as God. - Hebrews 1:7,8; Isaiah 9:6
 How does Paul speak of Christ's relation to the Father?
“In Him dwelleth _all the fullness of the Godhead bodily._” Colossians 2:9

 
What is our privilege in view of what this precious Saviour has done?
“For we have not a High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” Hebrews 4:15-16.

 
Then on the Holy Spirit – It would take too much room to type out all the verses so I will just put the references to look up.

 
His personality is proved  


from the fact that the attributes of personality, as intelligence and volition, are ascribed to Him (John 14:17,26; John 15:26, 1 Corinthians 2:10,11; 1 Corinthians 12:11.) He reproves, helps, glorifies and intercedes (John 16:7-13; Romans 8:26)
He executes the offices peculiar only to a person. The very nature of these offices involves personal distinction (Luke 12:12; Acts 5:32; Acts 15:28; Acts 16:6; Acts 28:25)
 
 
His divinity is established


from the fact that the names of God are ascribed to Him (Psalm 95:7; compare Heb 3:7-11)

that divine attributes are also ascribed to Him, omnipresence (Psalm 139:7; 1 Corinthians 2:10,11; Romans 8:11.)
Creation is ascribed to Him ( Gen 1:2; Job 26:13)
Worship is require and ascribed to Him (Isaiah 6:3; Acts 28:25, Romans 9:1.)


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## Nutty Saddler

AND GOD SAID TO THE POPE - TAKE AS MUCH MONEY FROM THE PEOPLE AS YOU CAN AND BUILD YOURSELF A MIGHTY PALACE ( THE VATICAN )WHERE YOU MAY HOARD YOUR WEALTH AND IF ANY COME TO YOU THAT ARE NOT OF YOUR BELEIF - SPURN THEM , EVEN TO THE POINT OF MAKING RELIGIOUS WARS UPON THE UNHOLY NON BELIEVERS SO THAT ALL WHO DO NOT BELEIVE IN ME ARE PUT TO THE SWORD ( THE CRUSADES ) , AND WHEN THE PEOPLE ARE STARVING AND HOMELESS SEND SOME SERVANTS AMONG THEM AND TELL THEM THAT THIS IS JUST A TEST OF THEIR BELEIFS AND THAT SOMEHOW IT IS THEIR FAULT FOR NOT BEING PIOUS ENOUGH - MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND THAT THEY MAY REDEEM THEMSELVES BY GIVING MORE MONEY TO THE CHURCH SO THAT THEY CAN LOOK UPON MY HOUSES WITH AWE AND WONDER AT THE MAGNIFICANCE OF MY HOUSES WHERE THEY MAY ENTER FREELY ( AS LONG AS THEY GIVE MONEY INTO THE COLLECTION PLATE ) AND PRAY TO ME TO BE BENOLEVENT AND THANKING ME FOR THEIR LIVES.

When the religions of the world give up their wealth I may start to think that they may have a part to play in humanity - until such a time I shall not participate in any of them.


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## Spastic_Dove

Equus_girl said:


> First about the adultery, Leviticus 20 tells what is to be done in these cases – yes they are to be put to death. *But we do not live in those times anymore.* Things have changed. Not that is is any less evil in the sight of God, but people are not put to death for these things anymore in our society. It will be at the end that those will receive punishment for their sins if they have not repented, turned away from those sins and been converted.
> [/LIST]


Following this logic, how would one know what from the bible is outdated, and what is still applicable then? If God told us adultery should be punishable by death, if we follow the Bible, shouldn't we want a death penalty for adulterers?


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## Equus_girl

I'm not saying it is outdated - the same punishment would still apply except that society today does not permit such punishment.


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## Spastic_Dove

Pretty much the same thing in my mind. 
So you say it's fair, just not legal?


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## MIEventer

> Following this logic, how would one know what from the bible is outdated, and what is still applicable then? If God told us adultery should be punishable by death, if we follow the Bible, shouldn't we want a death penalty for adulterers?


And the bible says to not kill - while yet people go to war in the name of god. 

The bible says to stay away from politcs, for Gods Kingdom has nothing to do with it and Christ *THE SON OF GOD - a seperate being* told those who tried to make him King of their nation that he wants nothing to do with politics, that he was there to spread the word of his fathers Kingdom. But yet - many religious are involved in politics.

The bible says allot - and religious people use it to coincide with their wants, and choose to ignore the rest when it doesn't work for them.


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## Sunny06

Equus_girl said:


> *It will be at the end* *that those will receive punishment for their sins* if they have not repented, turned away from those sins and been converted.


I whole-heartedly agree


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## MIEventer

No where does it say you must be converted. What a load of whoopla.

Because if I recall, the bible states that God knows our thoughts before we think them. That God know what it is in our hearts. He knows the number of hairs on our heads. He knows what we are going to do, before we do them - that is how personal he is with us.

Absolutely no where does it say you must be converted. Actually as a matter of fact, no where does it state that sinners go to hell either. That's another historical b/s propaganda started by the church.


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## Equus_girl

Well, I'm not going to argue over this. We each need to study for ourselves to find out what is truth. If we go to people we will most likely go wrong, but you cannot go wrong with God. If anyone has any questions or needs clarification on something feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to give you more Scriptural evidence for what I believe.


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## Sunny06

MIEventer said:


> No where does it say you must be converted. What a load of whoopla.


I was agreeing with the fact that we will be judged in the end.


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## Sunny06

Just because the Bible dosen't say word-for-word and in plain view 'Everyone must be converted' or 'Sinners are going to hell' dosen't mean it isn't there. I've read plenty or verses, and plenty of articles that have said the same things in greater detail that confuses others. 

Such as http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thess.1:8-9&version=NIV . It's easier to see that hell is the eternal judgment from www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt.25:41-46&version=NIV .

Just thought I'd add.


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## Spastic_Dove

To me, that second quote read that I can claim whatever religion I choose as long as I show compassion and help those around me. 

I think you can know God and follow the gospel without ever picking up a bible or proclaiming yourself as a catholic or christian.


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## Sunny06

^ I knew that someone would say that about the verse. See, in another verse it explains what to do and the religion (I'm not going to say; will sound too biased. And it dosen't literally read the name of it. Mentions the steps involved in the religion). 

So, yeah.. Whatever floats your boat. I won't stop you or your beliefs. I DO agree with your second statement in a sense.


----------



## MIEventer

> Well, I'm not going to argue over this. We each need to study for ourselves to find out what is truth. If we go to people we will most likely go wrong, but you cannot go wrong with God. *I'll be happy to give you more Scriptural evidence for what I believe.*


Ah but by picking up the bible, is turning to man as well. It was written by man. Re written by man. Translated by man. Books were taken out by man.

So in sense, you are turning to man. That book was not written by God. It was written by man.




> *Just because the Bible dosen't say word-for-word and in plain view 'Everyone must be converted' or 'Sinners are going to hell' dosen't mean it isn't there.* I've read plenty or verses, and plenty of articles that have said the same things in greater detail that confuses others.
> 
> Such as http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Thess.1:8-9&version=NIV . It's easier to see that hell is the eternal judgment from www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matt.25:41-46&version=NIV .
> 
> Just thought I'd add.


So just because a book that you put so much faith into, does not specifically state that evil doers will go to hell, and just because it does not state that those who do not repent will go to hell - thats ok, because you'll take the word of man who've interpreted these stories and take them out of context, to heart - even though there is no educated studdy behind it?

Do you know what the word Hell means? Do you know that in the Hebrew language, Hell is translated into Gehenna, or Sheol - which came from what? The word Gehenna or Sheol - or as you call it "eternal fire" comes from an actual place in Jerusalem where idolatruous Jews sacraficed children. They threw their bodies into a pit of fire to be sacraficed to their god.

Then - to continue, the city of Jerusalem, ended up using this valley after the practice was abollished - into a garbage pit. This valley or pit, surrounded their city as a common wasteyard for all their garbage. They threw dead bodies of animals and of criminals into it, including their trash.

That is where the word known today as "eternal pit of fire and torment" came from - this continuous valley of fire to dispose of garbage, during Christs' days on earth. 

In time it became the image of the place of everlasting destruction - as we know it today.

Also - in Revelation and Romans, it states that DEATH IS THE PAYMENT OF SIN - so, when one dies, that means their sins are paid. So, if that's the case then they are clean in God's eyes and therefore - do not end up going to this fake and false place that was created by those who wanted to keep the fear and power over peope.

And doesn't the bible also state in Psalm 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish." and also states that when a person dies, that soul dies.—Ezekiel 18:4. And God said to Adam "Dust you are and to dust you will return." (Genesis 3:19) and also Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, where it states that the dead know nothing, in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom." 

But I guess that cannot be factual since we have to have knowledge and feelings and emotions when our "souls" go to hell - to that eternal pit of fire where sinners and non repentants go.

Lets talk about the righteous man Job, who suffered greatly. Because he was in so much pain and suffering he pleaded to God "Who will grant me this, that thou mayest protect me in hell aka Gehenna or Sheol - and hide me till thy wrath pass?" (Job 14:13) 

So why would a man, of such faithfullness - pray to God to send him to this firey pit of eternal suffing and torment, for protection from his sufferings he was going through, at the hands of the serpant?.

Beacuse in in the Old Testament, the word Hell - meant Grave. 

And how can a God, of such love, compassion, forgiveness and kindness - a God who knows our thoughts before we think them and know our actions before we do them - allow such a horrible place to torment his children whom he claims he loves so much.

I don't put faith into a book written by man.


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## MIEventer

> To me, that second quote read that I can claim whatever religion I choose as long as I show compassion and help those around me.
> 
> I think you can know God and follow the gospel without ever picking up a bible or proclaiming yourself as a catholic or christian.


You are absolutely right. That is why I am not religious nor do I choose a religion. It is about leading a good life and being as good as a person as you can be.

I am spiritual not religious. I refuse to stand by any man made religion.


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## Sunny06

MIE, I'm not going to argue with you. I believe what I believe and there's nothing you can do to sway that.

You can think what you want to think. 

We will know the truth in the end.


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## Courtland

Hello there,  I didn't read all that, but I'm going to post my beliefs. I'm a Jehovah witness and based on scriptural truth I believe there is no trinity, Jesus is gods son , and god uses the holy spirit. I also believe there is no fiery hell where a god of love would cause eternal suffering. In the Hebrew language hades, she'ol, and hell all mean the grave. Also, I believe only a small number of 144,000 are going to heaven to rule with Jesus . the rest will be resurrected to a paradise earth for eternity what god originally planned for humans. And those that are dead are only sleeping and will wake up in the paradise earth to learn the truth then if they decide they don't want it then they will just die , almost like they were never born. Also I know god has a name just like we do and he wants to be called by it , his name is Jehovah - psalms 83:18


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## Incitatus32

I was raised traditional Roman Catholic for most of my life. Mass six days a week, catholic school, sacrements, etc. I don't consider myself catholic though because my views are not the views of the church. I believe that if there is a god, or deity, that it does not base your life on how well you followed a book. Any deity worth having in my opinion will judge me on my life and how I've been a good steward towards man, animals, and my planet. Prayer is not necessarily as black and white thing as it's become, but in my views prayer is something as simple as being awed by life or stunned into silence by the beauty of something. I guess in some respects I would be agnostic but I really don't know or care at this point, if there is a deity my life will hopefully be judged on what I've done to make the world a better place. If not and I was wrong and I'm judged on how well I followed a book and said my Ps and Qs, I really don't want to associate with that crew. 

It's so nice to see people not fighting over religion and whose wrong and right!


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## Stan

I'm not sure I believe in anything other than we are borne, live and die and thats it. But I have experienced an event that would contradict my first statement.

As humans we would like to think life goes on after death but the question is, does it. I often wonder why is it my brother and parents have never come back to say. Hey you behave its great here.

Christian Is not just a religon, its a way of life, treating others as one would like to be treated. 

One day we will find out or will we.


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## Northern

Bible quote: "The fool hath said in his heart, "There is no G-d".

A few thoughts:

Tanakh (called the Old Testament by Christians) is an entirely different gospel from the New Testament: the messiah is to be human,(not divine as Jesus is claimed to be in NT) to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, & bring about world peace in which all nations serve the G-d of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob in His seat in Jerusalem. Animal sacrifices will be resumed, after the centuries of the diaspora (scattering of the Jews all over the globe) where no sacrifices have been made. In those days, it says in Tanakh, men will take hold of the hem of a Jew & say, "You know G-d, let us go with you." (paraphrase)

The NT has irreconcilable doctrinal differences with Tanakh: the divinity of Jesus, a triune G-d, Satan as an adversary of G-d rather than a servant with no free will of his own (his service being to test creatures, or something along those lines), the predestination by God of Christian saints, the working out of G-d's will in their lives, faith itself being a gift "and not of ourselves", the judgment & predestinated bad end of those whom God chose not to save, which is most of the humans who've ever lived, the "New Jerusalem" which is a heavenly city, (as opposed to the earthly Jerusalem prophesied in Tanakh) will be the eternal abode of the saints with G-d.

Then, you have lots of NT problems within itself: contradictions & fudged-up "proof-verses", which the Jews, who know Hebrew, can prove ARE fudged! Isaiah 53 is not discussing Jesus being born of a virgin, for example. "Kiss the Son" was lower case "son", which the King James translators changed to the capital to make it seem that Tanakh was talking about Jesus, is another example. A contradiction within the NT is where Jesus says take only your sandals & staff when you go to share the gospel, yet in another place, he says don't take either! There are lots of these, which can be found online on various sites.

So, "The Bible" is really TWO different gospels, with two different bodies of prophecy. The Jews have been saying this to Christians for centuries, & once one familiarizes oneself with Tanakh, & reads the explanations, it's understandable why Jews never voluntarily converted to Christianity, especially when Tanakh itself warns against doing anything other than worshipping G-d in the way that Tanakh prescribes!

Only time will tell who was right - the Jews or the Christians - yet what if neither are, if NO messiah ever appears?

The only way to know G-d is if He Himself chooses to reveal Himself to the soul: the soul has a limited ability to figure out much of anything: how to figure out the UNlimited!?


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## kitten_Val

Stan said:


> treating others as one would like to be treated.


I don't think this statement has anything to do with religion (and I do think it's a great one BTW). I'd say it's more related to the moral world of the person, and you don't have to be religious to follow it.


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## Missy May

I was raised atheist.
Real science does not throw out "possibilities". Just saying.
But, above all...I believe in the freedom of religion.


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## HorseLovinLady

Me and my family are mostly Christian. I also don't push my beliefs on others and if they choose to not believe in God or any religion then that's ok with me too, just don't bash me for what I believe in.


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