# Tobiano or Tovero?



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

overo/tovero don't mean much.

I'd say definitely tobiano.

I'm not good at the others but I'm going to say all 3- frame overo, splash and sabino. (all 3 of those are considered "overo" hence the not mean much)

I'd suggest doing some research and educating yourself. Many things people tell you on color are not true 

"Overo" or "tovero" can or cannot have blue eyes. It is linked to certain genes and where the white falls.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

If he is/was registered APHA I would think they would list him as Tovero.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Tovero is an outdated term meaning "tobiano and some other white pattern that we don't want to bother identifying."

Overo isn't exactly outdated, but we now know that it encompasses several different white patterns including frame, splash, and sabino (and their variants). Overo does not automatically mean the horse has blue eyes, either. 

I would definitely say he's tobiano and sabino. The tobiano is causing the white to cross the topline (frame and splash don't like that). Sabino is probably causing the jagged edges on the markings he has. I want to say splash because of the shape of his facial markings. And possibly frame because of how the markings he does have are concentrated around the "edges" of his body.

The only way to know for sure would be to have him tested. It's a relatively inexpensive test.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I just went to APHA website and this is what they said about Tovero. 



There is a blue eye stipulation, so maybe your horse would be reg. as Tobiano.



Tovero
_(pronounced: tow vair' oh)_ 






 Dark pigmentation around the ears, which may expand to cover the forehead and/or eyes. 
One or both eyes blue. 
Dark pigmentation around the mouth, which may extend up the sides of the face and form spots. 
Chest spot(s) in varying sizes. These may also extend up the neck. 
Flank spot(s) ranging in size. These are often accompanied by smaller spots that extend forward across the barrel, and up over the loin. 
Spots, varying in size, at the base of the tail.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I really wish APHA would quit using tovero. It's seriously outdated and can mean so many different things. But, as we all know, registries are notoriously behind on the times when it comes to colors and coat patterns.

*le sigh*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I did not get the vibe the OP was asking for registration purposes...


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Since Tovero is used by APHA and the OP specifically asked about Tovero, that is the 'lean' I put in my response.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Got it.

I just see it as an outdated term that doesn't mean much that is still overused. Hence the need to educate lol.

If the OP is asking for registration purposes I agree he would be (well IS) tovero.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

From an APHA registration point of view, he would definitely be registered as a Tovero. Compare to the example Tovero horse on the APHA website 










or to our Tovero mare










The comment on the APHA website about Toveros having one or two blue eyes really should say "may have". In my experience with these mainly white Toveros, the ones that have coloring around the eye area often have brown eyes (our mare has two brown eyes).

In defense of the APHA, remember that their registry mission is to maintain breed parentage records, not record coat pattern DNA. The terms tobiano, overo, and tovero are used as a general quick _visual_ identification reference, just like coat colors. Their registration group will pick the term that "fits best" in their opinion. For example, one of our mares is a two blue eyed tobiano. She obviously carries some overo gene(s) because of her blue eyes, but from a general visual classification would you say she is tovero? Certainly not. She is registered as a tobiano with a comment on her certificate noting the blue eyes.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Thank you PaintHorseMares, I heartily agree.

If Tovero was meant to simply designate Tobiano with Overo influence, then many, many, many more would qualify as Tovero. 

However, only the mix resulting a certain defined pattern are registered Tovero. Primarily being the shield, flank spots, and medicine hat (or variety).

While it is an outdated term in the finely detailed and complicated arena of genetics. I do not feel it is outdated altogether.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

^^^ Even the shield is not universal. Our mare is all white on the chest (no shield) but her sister, who otherwise looks almost identical, has more head white and a chestnut shield.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

One of my geldings doesn't have blue eyes and APHA classified him as a tovero so they aren't a must have.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I like those 'you'd never guess what the other side looks like' patterns.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Tovero is just tobiano plus overo (splash/sabino/frame) used in registries. In reality, nearly all tobiano horses carry one or more additional white causing genes. The expression of the other genes varies, but excessive head white is usually when registries start calling a horse Tovero. Any tobiano horse with any head white including stars, strips, snips and blazes carry at least one "overo" gene which put that white there. A tobiano only horse can have tons of white with maximum expression but it will stop at the top of the neck, making it look like the horse is wearing a turtleneck. Tobiano also likes to leave a chest shield and flanks untouched by white. 

The OP's horse carries tobiano as well as other largely expressed "overo" categorized genes. A large misconception of pinto coloring is believing that having one particular gene means they can't carry others. Like all the owners/breeders who don't think they need to test a tobiano horse for frame before breeding. Therotically, you could have a horse homozygous for tobiano, splash and sabino and it could still carry frame overo, which would give you 100% guarantee that tobiano, splash and sabino would be passed to every foal with a 50% chance that frame would also be passed along with the other white genes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

PaintHorseMares said:


> In defense of the APHA, remember that their registry mission is to maintain breed parentage records, not record coat pattern DNA. The terms tobiano, overo, and tovero are used as a general quick _visual_ identification reference, just like coat colors. Their registration group will pick the term that "fits best" in their opinion. For example, one of our mares is a two blue eyed tobiano. She obviously carries some overo gene(s) because of her blue eyes, but from a general visual classification would you say she is tovero? Certainly not. She is registered as a tobiano with a comment on her certificate noting the blue eyes.


I agree and don't agree with this and only for the reason that visually, the common patterns that fall under "overo" look very visually different. There is a huge difference between a horse that is sabino and one that is say, frame. Yes, their mission is to keep records, but I think it's important that those records are accurate as we find out more about how genetics work. It wasn't that long ago that it was believed double dilutes were albinos. We of course know now that isn't the case and don't refer to them as that anymore. 

However, I agree with you that in the grand scheme of things, changing colour classification probably shouldn't be a top priority in comparison to the other work they do. 

Back to the OP's question, I would guess he is tobiano and maybe frame. Love his little eye patch.


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