# CAIR vs Flocked saddles



## Rawhide (Nov 11, 2011)

Until others more qualified than me respond here is an older HF thread with same questions . Just trying to help : https://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/flocked-saddles-vs-cair-system-21288/


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## kaimanawas (Apr 16, 2015)

thanks i'm settling down for a good read now


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I disliked my Bates with CAIR. The saddles were good, but CAIR felt bouncy to me. The CAIR panels are not pressurized. They are 'filled' at sea level. I suppose one could break in time, but replacing one wouldn't be too hard. However, I live at 3,700' MSL, and they felt like an overinflated ball under me. Definitely bouncier than my Australian saddles. I've long since switched to western, but my vote would be "flocked".


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I have several Wintec saddles, flocked and CAIR styles (three are for sale if you are interested) 

I like them all. My first was when they first came out with the adjustable gullet. It is a 17" Wintec Pro Dressage, flocked. I used it on many horses, and it still looks great! 

Then I purchased a 17.5" Wintec Pro Dressage with CAIR. I like the saddle a lot, but it is just a little big for me. It was only used for one year and is in great shape (for sale) 

I purchased a 16" Wintec Pro Dressage with CAIR for my adopted daughter. Used for one year and in great condition. (for sale as child is grown and gone) 

The last saddle is a 16.5" Wintec 2000 with CAIR again bought for my adopted daughter and used for one year. In great condition (for sale as AD is grown and gone) 

These are all the older style before they "renovated" them. 

I like them all, but am selling the ones that don't fit me, and possibly the original one but it is older and I probably will just keep it. 

My saddle fitter said he loves reflocking Wintec saddles because they are really easy to work with. 

Also, I have known 2 people that did not care for the CAIR system so had the air removed and flocked just like a traditional saddle. 


So they can be changed if you don't like the CAIR, but we saw no real difference between the CAIR and the flocked (except one doesn't need a saddle fitter with the CAIR  )

What I did see a huge difference in was the PRO style and the regular style. I rode a friend's horse in her 500 style 17.5" with CAIR then we changed saddles to my 17.5" PRO with CAIR and the difference was amazing! No way would I buy anything except the PRO style if I was buying another one!! 


If you are interested, I have the saddles for sale (USA only) for $300.00 each including shipping with leathers, stirrups, and new (starter style) 28" girth. 


Will post pictures if you are interested.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Saddles 
1) 16" PRO Dressage
2) 17.5" PRO Dressage
3) 16.5" 2000 All Purpose (lighting is poor on this one, yellow lights change the appearance)


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## kaimanawas (Apr 16, 2015)

AnitaAnnie Why do you think the Wintec PRO one's feel better to ride in. The only Wintec PRO All Purpose saddle is more for people who participate in more jumping and I go the other way and lean towards dressage but don't want to go the Whole way and get a dressage saddle. I was thinking of getting a Wintec 500 all purpose or Wintec 500 VSD all purpose.
Sadly i'm in New Zealand so that's a no to the saddles.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Well, for what it's worth, I started out with Wintecs for both my horses, wool-flocked for both, with the adjustable gullets. I then replaced them with better quality saddles bought used for 7-800$. My daughter shows, and she felt the difference right away when I got her a better saddle.


But now I have a new horse on trial, and when I spotted a Wintec with interchangeable gullet for sale for 250$, I scooped it up. I've since also bought a nice dressage saddle that's much better quality, but I think I'll hold onto the Wintec as well. I have to say that for the price, and given the convenience of being able to adjust the saddle to fit different horses, the Wintecs aren't a bad investment, especially when you are just starting out. Down the road, you may want something better, but it takes time to find the right saddle, and in the meantime, the Wintecs are a good compromise.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

kaimanawas said:


> AnitaAnnie Why do you think the Wintec PRO one's feel better to ride in. The only Wintec PRO All Purpose saddle is more for people who participate in more jumping and I go the other way and lean towards dressage but don't want to go the Whole way and get a dressage saddle. I was thinking of getting a Wintec 500 all purpose or Wintec 500 VSD all purpose.
> Sadly i'm in New Zealand so that's a no to the saddles.


I personally would not get anything except a PRO. I rode in two saddles one of each on the same horse, the same day, the same size saddle, the same size gullet. I used the same leathers (mine) and stirrups on both. The ONLY thing different was one was a PRO the other was a 500 model. 

The 500 felt horrible and hard to me, the PRO was great. 

Your call, but it is not worth the small amount of saving to me to get the 500 style. 

(My 2000 All Purpose is the same as the PRO Dressage and rides just as nicely)


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

I've always flocked over Cair panels to adjust Wintecs (and Bates) because I never considered the company's shim system flexible enough. And the saddles need adjustment because they often don't fit that well in front unless the horse has near perfect conformation, whatever that is. But now I gather this process voids the manufacturer's guarantee on new saddles, and the company make it more difficult, anyway, with their internal panel construction. Though it seems to me that's been designed to stop the 'airbags' or 'woolbags' moving around, and for ease of manufacture rather than any real improvement in horse comfort. 

The new flocked saddles are near impossible to over-flock in the usual way because the bag the wool is packed into has a flocking slot which never lines up with that in the outer panel


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Wintecs have their place I think in the line of saddles. I have used both and loved both for different reasons. I find that when you are using a wintec on many different types of horses, the CAIR system was beneficial. The CAIR system did adjust a lot more easily to the different types of backs of horses I used it on-especially if you ride youngsters who are constantly changing. 
If you are using your saddle one horse then having a flocked saddle might better for you, because you can have it adjusted and filled as needed to a great fit. If you are using on many different types of horses on a daily/weekly basis then the CAIR is more beneficial. The price point for a wintec is also very appealing.

Over the years I have been able to own fantastic custom saddles as well as wintecs and I find they each served their own specific purpose. Would I get another wintec? absolutely. Would I use CAIR or flocked? would depend on it's intended use.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I am looking into getting a Wintec myself, and I am going to go with the flocked when I do decide to get one. I love my leather saddle, but keeping it clean is a PITA & I would like another saddle so I don't have to use my leather one so much.

People also think they can fit 'any' horse because of the interchangeable gullet system...not exactly true. It either will fit or not, even if you change out the gullets. They don't fit every single horse.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I bought a Wintec and I liked it. It was nice that Wintec gives a choice of Cair or flock when ordering the saddle. I went with flocked because I anticipated having it re-flocked down the road and I don't think a Cair can be adjusted. I also thought the Cair felt too bouncy to me. I have been told that horses either really like or really DON'T like the Cair. If you can try one out first, so much the better.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

It's interesting to read the bounciness comments. It was years ago, but I never remember having that issue with any of the ones i rode in.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I never noticed any bounciness either. The kids never complained about it and one horse had a very bouncy trot...

I would still be using the Wintec saddles if I hadn't bought my RMHA gelding. He has those big gaited horse muscles on his sides that interfere with the extra padding along the forward part of Dressage/English saddles. 

An Australian saddle might have worked with him, but had a hard time finding one wide enough. My Fabtron western saddle worked, but was uncomfortable on my rear and was damaged in a fall. Tried buying a second one but didn't fit right even though the same model and size (but MUCH newer) 

So this horse and the saddle fitting nightmare is how I changed to treeless saddles. Even that took a bit before I found a brand and style that both my horse and I liked! 

This horse, possibly my last of a long string of horses, is why I have so many saddles for sale and my spare room looks like a tach shop :rofl:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The CAIR panels are "filled" by ambient air at sea level, so their pressure is based on sea level air pressure. At 3800 feet MSL, where I live, the air is 13% less dense, so the CAIR panels would be overpressurized by 13%. Maybe that is why I felt they were bouncy?


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