# Breeding grade mares?



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Probably not. I am a firm believer in having a reasonable amount of knowledge regarding what to expect and, even if the mare herself is amazing, you don't know what is back a generation or two in her bloodlines. She could have a nasty temperament or a bad conformational thing hiding in there just waiting to pop up on a foal.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

That's kinda what I was thinking, but oh so tempting! She in herself will probably not make a barrel horse for the simple reason she's 8 years old and just now getting broke. But she is the softest mouthed gentlest tempered horse I ever met in my life. But she is not lazy either, no buck, no running off I've not had a problem at all breaking her in. Oh I wish I had papers on her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Heck, she's still a youngster. Plenty of time to make a barrel horse out of her, especially since you don't have to worry about damaging young growth plates.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

Truth. I think I'm gonna try her. I have to get some weight off of her though. She is on pure weed ridden pasture and staying fat as a hog! Fixing to have to dry lot her. She's such an easy keeper it's ridiculous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

I'd breed our grade mare every chance I had, but she's too old. 

I know, I know, no papers bla bla bla. 

She's an angry lil pony, but built right! And if I had her 10yrs ago, I'd have bred her in a heartbeat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

I have a American saddle pony/ poa mare that I've bred a few times. First time she got bred was before I bought her and she was bred to a twh, and he was the most amazing horse. Absolutely awesome. We bred her a few times after that because we had people basically begging for her foals. She was bred a total of 4 times and everyone of her colts turned out amazing. And they sold just as soon as we were ready to sell them. But on most horses I won't breed them unless try have conformation, bloodlines and papers to prove it. That's kinda my motto. Lol. But occasionally you get that once in a lifetime grade horse that you just gotta have a colt out of. I'm extremely picky about those once in a lifetime horses though. Too many $100 worthless horses running around. Nobody wants them and they don't have what it takes to make a trail horse. Bad deal right there.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

You should start a barrel horse registry! Then she could be registered, lol. The ranch horse people did, and the sport pony, and the spotted saddle horse, et., so why not?

Nancy


----------



## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I had a lot of people tell me that we should breed Mona again. She came to us in foal, and her 1st baby is a great little horse. 
I'm glad now that we never bred her ourselves since she's starting to have stifle issues as she's getting older. We think it's due to injury, but a part of it may be genetic.
With grade horse you just never know.


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I have a QH mare that I rescued..
She surprised me with a filly 6 months later. That filly is correct and IMO a purebred QH. Everyone that sees her wants her.
If I knew the sire I would take this mare back and breed her again.
Instead I did breed her to my black Arabian stallion.
I do believe a horse with good conformation, and abilities should be considered for breeding papers or not.
It is cheaper to buy a grade IMO than to raise one. Shalom


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Will you post a picture of the mare in question, OP?


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

If the horse is breeding quality in terms of conformation, temperament, and ability, I don't see an issue with it. While the dam may not be registered, there are several registries out there that will allow half-breeds to be registered so it doesn't necessarily mean the resulting foal won't be registerable. There are also color registries if the foal ends up being pinto, palomino, etc. It just means you have another aspect to consider when selecting the stud.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

The first rule of breeding is you should never breed unless you have a reasonable expectation of the results.

If your mare has an unknown ancestry then it would not be prudent - or smart - to breed her. If she is "grade" in circumstances only and you know her ancestry, that is a different matter.

Always remember that a horse that is not true to its breeding cannot be reasonably expected to breed true itself. Even a registered horse with the best of lines, if it is anomalous and not true to its breeding, should not be bred. 

So the question is NOT whether a horse is registered, but rather if it is true to its breeding. If you know the ancestry and can determine that she is true to her breeding, then there is no reason not to breed her, assuming she and her line have qualities worth breeding for. If you don't know her ancestry, then it is nothing more than a crapshoot...you could end up with something entirely different than what you expect...


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

It is all personal preference and no one can say that it is right or wrong but I don't deal with anything that isn't registered.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

Here's a picture. It's not the best pic in the world, as she is actually very stunning in person. And yes, I know she is way over weight. Working on that. 

I do know a little bit about her bloodlines/background. She was actually bred for/born on the place but that was before I moved in with my grandparents. I know very little about her dam except that she was a beautiful stout mare that had been rescued from an abusive home. She was supposed to be full blood and registered except the papers had been "lost" and they couldnt tell us what the mares lines were. i know her daddy in person. He is full blood registered appendix quarter horse with skipper w lines, but again the person we got him from had lost the papers in a fire or something like that. He is an amazing horse ( gelded now). My grandpa actually got a couple foals out of him. All of them are level headed and easy going. I think that these breeding a were accidental, but I ain't gonna swear nothing my papa is an old cowboy and doesn't think twice about breeding unregistered horses, even though he used to raise running quarter horses


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

This is not a confo pic, just a pretty pic.


----------



## roanypony (Apr 5, 2012)

Although my mare is registered through a half registry I still consider her to be grade. Because I knew the QH side, she is built beautifully, has an exceptional temperment and can really haul a$$ I decided to breed her to a registerd QH. If nothing else at least I get another half registered horse. I'd say go for it. If you've got the money, desire and need for a prospect and don't want to purchase one...why not. (Yes...ppl can come up with all kinds of why-nots...but it's your horse and i'll be damned straight to you know where if someone tries to tell me what to do with my horse lol.) Use your jugement. The horse I decided to breed I've owned for 10 years. Many of her siblings are 1D horses or very sucessful roping horses.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

Thanks roanypony! I'm going to give her a couple years and really see if she is going to be worth it. I might raise a mule out of her to kinda get an idea of what she throws and ill then have an extremely stout pack mule for my next hunting trip, lol. Mules are worth so much more around here right now and I don't think you can register a mule anyway and it would be a good way to kinda get an idea about what she throws. I know that the jack *** side will throw some funny quirks, but it'll give me a bit of an idea. I think I'll wait at least 2-3 years before I breed for a barrel prospect if I decide to try for it. That will give me a chance to really see how good a barrel horse she in herself could be. If she makes a good one, and I think she'll throw good ones, if I haven't found a good prospect or registered proven broodmare by then, I may breed her, if not, I won't. I really don't like to just breed grade horses, but this mare is so exceptionally gentle natured and well built and fast that it's been really tempting. But I think I'm going to wait and see.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

I do have and know people that own some of her siblings (some from momma, some from daddy) and every one of them are really rather amazing. She has a half brother from dams side (father was a registered quarter horse, my current barrel horse is a registered gelding from this sire) that has potential to make a crazy good cutting horse. He's done cutting in the past and did really well with it but he's my papas horse and he's getting a little old to ride cutting horses. He is about 2 years older than this mare. Her brother on her daddy's side (he's a son of the poa mix mare mentioned above. Accidental breeding I know, the others I'm not sure about) is a really nice horse. He actually beat a professionally trained registered aqha barrel horse in the last play day I saw him in, ridden by a 16 yo girl. He is level headed and has a very willing to please attitude. 
Her sister I her dams side is just now being broke in, she's only a 5 yo. She is level headed and is breaking in really easily. Her father is the poa mix now gelding mentioned right above. Another accidental breeding. 

Now before you go bashing me for bad management and breeding habits, keep in mind that I wasn't any part of it. This all took place when I was in Alaska, so I had no part of it. My family here are all old fashioned cowboys that are not anywhere near as picky or careful about their horse breeding. I am very careful and particular about the horses I buy/breed. This mare was given to me as a gift when I moved back down here. I did not breed for her or buy her.


----------



## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

If she's just being broken then I don't think you can yet breed for "talent", just that she is responding well. To me that is not enough. 

However, in your position I would ride and compete her and if she does prove to be very competitive, then I would consider breeding later on. In this case though, I'd want to have a list of achievements, rather than just being a good barrel horse. In addition, I'd only consider breeding if I was breeding the horse for myself, and I had the intention of keeping it forever. If I was breeding in order to sell it on later, then I would not breed a grade horse.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

Yes, if I bred her I would keep the foal. And yes, I think you are right about getting a good list of accomplishments. She's got plenty of baby producing ability years, do I think I am going to wait a few years before I consider breeding her again. If I feel I am going to need a prospect before then, I will either buy a colt or find a broodmare to buy/lease that is registered. I'd like to buy a good registered aqha ir apha filly someday. By that's sometime in te future.


----------



## Arab Mama (Jun 10, 2012)

Here's my take on it. If your mare has good conformation, good disposition, is healthy and is good at her chosen sport/activity, then it is okay to consider breeding. The responsible thing to do would be to breed her to a breed of stud that would allow half-breed registrations, such as Arabians. Although you may intend to keep the foal, it isn't possible to predict the future so at least this way you may be helping to ensure a better future for a registered foal.


----------



## TrojanCowgirl (Jun 1, 2012)

Personally, I would breed my grade mare. My mare is actually a purebred QH, I know all of her bloodlines... the only reason she hasn't been registered was because her mama died before her mama's registration papers were acquired... I'm looking more into the situation this morning, but as it looks so far; she can't be registered.

I'm personally impressed with her bloodlines, her temperament is a dream, conformation is beautiful... I'd go for it. I may not be able to register the foal in a breed association, but as long as it's kept for a personal horse I see absolutely no harm in doing so... it's not like I'm running a huge breeding farm or claiming to have or aiming towards high quality show horses. 

You can't ride papers... but usually you can't sell a horse without them... unless they've done something impressive. To each his own. If you have a good mare you know a little about, at least her background, I see no harm.


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

As long as you take the time and/or the expense to train a grade horse ensure is is super broke someone will buy him.
Most horse owners do not show or breed. They simply ride, drive, or do some other activity with the horse.
I have rescued several horses in the last 10 years and everyone has found a good home . 
The more they were trained the better the price.
I sold one gelding for 3,000$ after sending him to the trainers to learn the playday patterns . I used him for playdays for about 5 months and sold him as soon as I announced he was for sale. Shalom


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

Ok. Thanks y'all. I'm still not sure if I will or won't. She needs to lose 100lbs or more and prove herself to be a good horse before I decide on anything. I am going to finish breaking her in and go from there. If I do breed her it would be to a quarter horse or appendix quarter horse. I guess I could register with the half quarter horse registry.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Barrelracingllamalover said:


> Ok. Thanks y'all. I'm still not sure if I will or won't. She needs to lose 100lbs or more and prove herself to be a good horse before I decide on anything. I am going to finish breaking her in and go from there. If I do breed her it would be to a quarter horse or appendix quarter horse. I guess I could register with the half quarter horse registry.


There's a Half Quarter Horse registry? :?

I wouldn't breed a grade but then I wouldn't breed anything. I wouldn't buy from any 'Grampa's stud, cousin's mare' type breeding program either.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Dba, that's true that even grades have value with the right training, heck, I turned down $5K for my mustang, but there are already just so many horses needing homes....and without knowing what her bloodlines are or the type of stock she came from, there's no way to know if she's an adequate respresentation of her breeding. 

Buying/owning/rescueing a grade horse is one thing because you can look at them and take them for what they are....breeding is already a big enough crap-shoot even when you do know what to expect.


----------



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Logically? No. I does not make sense, Unless you have the ideal mare with an incredible show record and an equally impressive stallion, its not worth it from a logical standpoint. the risk to mare is significant, as are the chances of a less than ideal or even crippled foal. I have seen conformational train wrecks come out of incredible parents. Even if you discount those, for a mare owner breeding for one foal, the costs of stud fee and vet bills are far higher than the cost of purchasing a foal already on the ground, where you can evaluate temperament, conformation and athletic ability.

However, if you really want a foal, then I would consider if the mare is very well built, has a great temperament, fantastic conformation, and is talented in your chosen discipline. If yes, then you can find a complementary stallion, and go ahead. 

My mare is in foal for 2014, and I like her enough I would have bred her regardless of her papers.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

Yes they have a half quarter horse registry. But they have a registry for everything now, which I think is stupid. I saw a registry for half Arab half mustangs a while back.

It's not so much that I want a foal, heck, honestly I don't like having baby animals, as a barrel racer, I'm very competitive and I think bred to a complimentary stud she would throw very competitive foals. I do like to have my competition horse from the time they are very young for the simple reason that I can bring them up and train them the way I want. I agree, there are so many grade horses out tere that aren't as well off. If I can find a reg broodmare of equal or better quality than this mare, then I will not even consider breeding her except for maybe mules, for the simple reason that I do pack trips and what not and a couple mules as easy keeping and massive as this mare is would be priceless as pack mules. But right now, as things stand, I am going to take some of the advice y'all have given me and wait and see if her foals are going to be worth it. 

On another note, what if you had one that came out of all registered stock and you knew the bloodlines on her but she just hadn't gotten registered? Would that change anything? Just curious, I don't have one at the time being. I'd really like to get into just pure registered stock someday, but I would want to start with the best I could lay hands on from the start, and that gonna cost money so that's a while off.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

And by foals being worth it, I mean is she going to be as good a horse ad I think she is going to be and be worth breeding. I retread and realized I didn't make that as clear as I wanted.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

If her sire and dam were registered and I knew what they were, then I might consider breeding the mare.

Is there any way you can find out what her parents/grandparents were? Either way, I'd give her a few years to really get going under saddle and see where her talent lies. Then, if I could find out her bloodlines, I would probably revisit the idea of breeding her.

I'd give her 4-5 years to prove herself in some discipline (or multiples, that would be even better). You never know, a perfect horse might just fall in your lap between now and then and save you having to spend all that money and time waiting for a baby to be born and grow up LOL.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

True smrobs. I agree with very thing you said. No, I really don't think there is anyway to find anything out. Maybe with a DNA test? I don't know if that would prove anything. Wouldn't you have to have the DNA of te other horse(s)? Unless they already had the DNA in the database? I don't know.


----------



## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

She's beautiful imo ^_^ What would you put her to? Good luck with whatever you end up doing with her.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Boy, it would be awesome if they had a DNA test system for horses the way they do for people, so that you could have a horse tested and they could tell you with certainty "Yep, there's Doc O'Lena, Impressive, Zan Parr Bar, and Two Eyed Jack in there".

Unfortunately, they can't.


----------



## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

EquineBovine said:


> She's beautiful imo ^_^ What would you put her to? Good luck with whatever you end up doing with her.


I plan on barrel racing her, but I've thought of trying some cow horse type sport. She's so incredibly cowy and quick that it would be a shame to waste that. It's absolutely amazing to watch her cut calves and herd tem around. I've never seen a horse cut calves by herself in a pasture. She'll just play with them, keep them cut until she gets tired of her game and wanders off. If cutting wasn't so expensive I'd jump on that! I've also considered team penning or sorting, but the only people I know that could teach me don't ride any longer soooo.


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

I just read the Original Post and in my opinion, all papers do is allow you to show in Breed shows and give you info on what horses are in their bloodlines. 

A good horse doesn't have to be registered to be able to do great things. Horses are horses. Who really needs a registered horse to do something. I always here people say 'O this is a good horse, he/she is registered!' but just because it is registered, doesn't make it a good horse, and just because it isn't registered doesn't make it a bad horse.

Anyways, if you think this horse is worth breeding, and you know what you are doing, go right ahead.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Barrelracingllamalover said:


> Simple opinion question: would you breed a grade mare if she had a ton if potential to throw an amazing baby for your sport?


YES!!!--If she has amazing conformation and is a "natural" in her sport.
People used to do this all of the time before all of these breed registries. IMHO, we have ruined breeds by looking ONLY at the papers and the names and not certifying them, the one thing that some Europeans (horse breeders) do RIGHT.
I also do NOT like any kind of inbreeding, even if it's to cousins or once removed. I remember reading "Secretariat" and the author remarked that his lineage was about as out-crossed as possible. EVEN IN THE LATE 1960's, people KNEW that this was a problem.
There is ANOTHER reason that I agree with this. Many QH's and other breeds just never get registered. "Corporal" (1982-2009,RIP) was a non-registered Arabian. My current QH, "Buster Brown" had a registered dam but I cannot register HIM. He has a lovely build. Were he a mare, I might consider breeding HIM bc of his athleticism.
My KMH mare, "Warren's Cindy," has unregistered great grandparents in her background and papers. She, IMO is the most smooth of any of the gaited and gaited-x horses I've owned--smoother than my 7yo KMH, who has lots of names in his lineage. I can see why the man I bought her from bred her 4x.


----------



## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Personally I'm with Corporal and Breezy on this one. When you only look at registered horses you overlook some of the best ones who aren't 'pedigreed'. My mare's a QH but she isn't registered, she was bred (not by us) and had an amazing foal who would do anything. My boss has a paint mare that she bred and even out crossed some of her Morgans not because of any lineage or registration but because they had qualities which suited her needs. 

IMHO the registration and breeding for showing has gotten WAY out of hand. When your crossing mare's with their brothers, cousins or anything of that sort you're just asking to create more genetic problems then are good. A pedigreed horse doesn't necessarily mean it's a good one! 

I say ride her and see how well you like her and then consider breeding her if you find her qualities too good to pass up!


----------

