# 'sensitive' stomach area



## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

Bumping this up. Thanks all


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Apologies for going against your vet but, your horse hurts.

How did the vet rule out ulcers? 

Your horse could also have some sort of "structural" problem that an equine chiropractor should evaluate.

He could possibly have the beginnings of a kidney infection.

I've just been in your shoes with one of my horses, a few months back.

I haven't ridden in a long time and I don't use a saddle anyway but, I noticed him starting to get sensitive on his left side when I was brushing him. I didn't think too much about it because spring was on its way and this horse will get allergy skin sensitive once the trees start to bud.

Then one morning he flat out bit me -- in the rib cage; it was the biggest and best "knee jerk" reaction I've ever seen. Similar to when the doctor whaps your knee cap with the rubber mallet. He immediately hung his head in sorrow; I'm sure he couldn't believe what he'd just done - lol lol. Had I not had my back brace on, I'm almost sure he'd've gotten a chunk of skin - lollol

I've had this horse 16+ years and that's the first time he's ever offered to bite, so I called the chiropractor and also had the vet look at him when the vet was here for another horse.

This horse did need some chiro work done on him.

The vet palpated him along the side and up the back & rump. The vet felt he also had a very low grade kidney infection and gave him a big honkin' needle full of B-12. This horse had a low grade kidney infection five or six years ago, so I was not surprised to hear that conclusion.

It took a few days and I don't know which treatment was responsible for stopping this horse's sensitivity in the stomach area but, there's no doubt he had medical issues.

Hope this helps in some way; until the root of the medical problem is found, it's probably just a matter of time until you possibly get bucked off or bit - just don't blame the horse as he's trying to tell you something


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

*sigh*

Figured. I'm just stuck. Would like to add that I have also had a chiropractor out. She could give me no explanation either. And I know from talking to at least 2 of his previous owners that he's been touchy about this area for at least the past year. BUT it goes back even longer because the man who sold him to the woman i bought him from said he had been warned Drifter did the same thing with them (so at least 3 owners back). They all Had him looked at by 3 different vets (neither was the one I have now) who also found no probable cause. Nothing came up in his vet check either

I trailered him to the College vet school here and they did a scope to rule out ulcers. He also told me he had thought it might be a kidney infection but he ruled that out as well so I am assuming he also ran a test for that. I will call and ask.

He is sore no where else and the same spot never gets the reaction twice. Sometimes he doesn't even nip, he just brings his head around and checks out what's going on. If its not a girth, he will not show any attitude again. If it is a girth, he moves around and nips at the air some more.

I don't get the "I'm hurting" vibe from him, but of course I want to do everything I can to rule it out anyways. It's just frustrating me that I can't pin point the issue. The vet school here has a great equine program and I can't help but think they would have picked up on something by now :/

Would an issue take this long to crop up?? Shouldn't it have flared up by now? Also previous owner I got him from stopped by the other day and said he didn't do it nearly as bad as when she had him. I'm just one confused horse owner :/


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

You've ruled out stomach ulcers but something's bothering him.

I still wouldn't discount something with the kidneys or bladder. When my horse was first diagnosed with a low grade kidney infection, the vet I used back then said there was nothing wrong with him.

It was the DVM/chiropractor who took the hollistic path of medicine that said the infection was probably so low grade that nothing showed in tests. She treated him and he was fine until the sensitivity this year.

Thankfully the vet I've been using for the last two years is a firm believer in combining traditional medicine with hollistic and herbal medicine. He's the one who gave this horse the shot of B-12 in his back.

I wanted to pass out when I saw that huge needle full of stuff going into Rusty's sacrum area - lol lol. Rusty never even flicked an ear - didn't even feel it. Amazingly the edema that he's had in his white hind ankle during the warm months, went away:shock:

1. Does your horse behave like this all year long or just certain times of the year? Perhaps the height of your allergy season? My horse has food allergies, along with dust/mold/pollen allergies.

There have been times when he would get so uncomfortable from environmental allergies that I have seen his skin literally crawl while he's standing still:-( 

2. How are you at riding bareback? Even just a time or two around the arena if you have access to one. If he doesn't act sour, I could easily think the horse has endured poor saddle fit his entire life and this has now become a learned habit. He could be one of those "Princess and the Pea" horses that has to have everything fit exactly right to be happy.

If he does act sour, even without a saddle, I think I would hunt down a different chiropractor. They don't all get a passing grade for helping a horse.

Something is bothering him but by now, his reaction is a learned habit that does have to be un-learned and that won't happen until you're able to get to the root cause.

If you can hunt down a "witch doctor", I think I'd turn to the hollistic and chiropractic world for an answer since nobody else is helping:?:?

He could have even been hurt really bad in the barrel area when he was young (maybe even fractured ribs) and he's always going to be sensitive. Young horses at play do stupid things that, more often than not, we never see and then wonder why they act like they do.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Have you tried giving him some bute and then seeing if he's still reacting when you touch his stomach?

Kind of like block pain, and see if it makes a difference. If not, then it probably isn't pain related but behavioral. 

Just a thought.


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

He is a completely different horse bareback. Mainly all of my riding on him has been bareback since I've been trying to pin point this issue. Just got back from the barn since I have today off work....scrubbed the dirt from his stomach and be didn't react. Palpated it...nothing. put some pressure on hid girth area with my hand...he yawned. Decided to saddle up and see what would happen...nothing. he didn't bat an eye lash. I swear he was chuckling to himself at the look I must have had on my face. Is there a possibility it could be 'remembered' pain? He expects it to such because of something from.his past? And about the byte...tried that already. Nothing changed. That's when my vet first told me it was all attitude and no pain. So does that mean I can stop scratching my head in bewilderment?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

Bute not byte. Sorry. Darn touchscreen phone with impossibly small letters
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

ok back on my laptop, phew. I tried to edit my previous post but it said I couldn't because 10 mins had expired so I am going to add a quick note here.

EDIT: When I say he is a different horse when going bareback, I mean in the sense that he does not work himself into a tizzy over seeing the saddle before we ever go for a ride. He moves the same bareback and undersaddle and does not rear, trip, buck, refuse to back/go forward/stand still and there are NO dry spots whenever I ride him with his saddle. Plus, this saddle was made for him so at least for now it fits him perfectly. I am aware that as he puts on muscle, that will change, but so far we have not needed to cross that bridge. Thank you again for your wonderful advice and helping me to reason this out  I am determined to get to the bottom of this. It's just the principle of the thing now lol. Plus, if Drifter is in any amount of obscure pain I want to fix it.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

DriftingShadow said:


> . put some pressure on hid girth area with my hand...he yawned. Decided to saddle up and see what would happen...nothing. he didn't bat an eye lash. I swear he was chuckling to himself at the look I must have had on my face. Is there a possibility it could be 'remembered' pain? He expects it to such because of something from.his past? And about the byte...tried that already. Nothing changed. That's when my vet first told me it was all attitude and no pain. So does that mean I can stop scratching my head in bewilderment?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're aleady right on top things --- no wonder you're stymied

Next time you get a chance, put the same pressure in the same area in the hind girth and see if he yawns. Horses yawn for a couple different reasons, one of which is to relieve stress. You may have hit a relaxing point for him that caused him to yawn/relax.

Yes, it very well could be a remembered pain. I rescued my Arab when he was 7, he is now 26 and the whole world has to be careful around his head.

He still remembers the sins against his head, just can't remember who the sinners were. Doesn't matter who it is, if the person at the halter doesn't do everything in slow motion, we can plan on getting rotator cup surgery that evening - lol

Your horse is great being ridden bareback:

1. That could put me back to my thought that he's lived his entire life in saddles that are not comfortable to him.

2. It could also make me think that some moron along the way, gave him the knee in the stomach to make him suck his barrel up so they could tighten the saddle without having to walk him and wait for him to relax.

That would make a horse girthy in big hurry, even with pressure from a brush.

It's starting to sound like he might have some attitude but he developed it as a defense mechanism from humans --- which is generally how horses end up with bad attitudes to begin with:-(

If you don't have your hopes up to show this year, I would just keep riding him bareback I have seven saddles and they're all in the attic, looking brand new, because I've ridden 90% of my trail riding life without a saddle

I hope you can get to the bottom of the issues and please keep posting as I am really curious


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

I will for sure keep you updated! Thank you for sharing your similar experiences and such with me. I feel like Im a little more ready for my next visit with the vet. I do hope to eventually show with him one day, but I am in no rush. Too busy trying to fix it past negligence on other owners' parts to show anytime soon though. I am hoping to enter him into a show about 2 years or so from now, if everything goes hunky dory the whole time. And we are on the same page about bareback! That's my favorite way to ride 

I've decided I am going to try an experiment for a few weeks. I'm going to start from the ground up as if he's never seen a saddle, and re introduce the whole concept slowly and surely and see if we make any progress. If I notice after a few weeks that there is an improvement in his behavior, I will lean more toward defense mechanism and go from there. If no change, I will sigh but smile determinedly as I can at least cross one more thing off the list ha ha.


I hopefully will be posting a breakthrough soon to tell you the problem has been solved! Fingers crossed.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I have an older mare that has always been a bit weird about being cinched up. I believe that she has spent most of her life being ridden in saddles that didnt fit her right and the whole cinching thing is due to pain. We use a saddle that fits as well as a pad that fills in any low places in her back. She continued to be "cinchy" for a long time, but now she is gradually getting better. I think that she was conditioned to associate being cinched up with back pain. In thinner horses that may have a high butt and withers, the saddle can put pressure on those points. I would look at my sweat pattern after riding. If there are dry spots, those are spots that are not bearing the weight of the saddle. A pad like this may help if this is your problem


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

Ok posting as an update and also as a way to get my jumbled thoughts together.

Yesterday: Spent time at barn as normal. Was trying to condition Drifter to my hand rubbing his girth area as I gave him a bath. Came across three ticks in the areas where he usually tried to nip me. I have not noticed them before, and was pretty sure I was being vigilant about checking for anything that could be causing discomfort whenever he nipped. Removed the ticks. Finished bath and put some ointment on the tick spots that is supposed to relieve itching, etc. No more nipping when I touched those spots. 

Today: Call Drifter in from pasture. He is ready to eat as usual. Is alert, normal behavior, etc. Start grooming him. Notice he's very "touchy". No longer in his girth area, but on his sides more toward his flank. Especially his right flank. I proceed to have one of those arguments with myself where I half of my brain is like "his belly is swollen. Oh my gosh. Is his belly swollen?? And it feels pretty tight. Is it tight??". Call vet, trying to control panic in my voice. I honestly thought he was colicing and we hadn't picked up on it and that it was the sensitivity had been about. Vet fires off a list of colic symptoms. Is he trying to lay down and/or roll? No. Is he off his feed? Definitely no. Drinking normally? yes. And so on and so on. I mention to vet that Drifter has been passing a lot of gas while in the crossties. He suggests lunging him at a slow trot to see if perhaps he will pass it. I hang up and do this. About 15 minutes in Drifter drops a pile of manure, and then proceeds to poop 4 more times and finally ends it with a (excuse the description) toot that resembles an 18 wheelers horn (scaring himself into a buck in the process). Belly is no longer distended. and is once again perfectly happy to be groomed.

Later in the evening I happened to brush against Drifter's flank and he attempted to cowkick me. This is so unlike him that a red flag went up. Searched and once again found a tick in the spot that was bothering him.

Has anyone heard of a horse being sensitive to ticks? In that the bite causes a pain reaction? 

I have called the vet out for monday. I have asked him to check for Lyme because its big in our area and I have heard that hypersensitivity can be a symptom. He is showing no other signs, but I am getting desperate. 

So far a general idea of what we think is going on with him is bouts of gassy colic from the rich grass in his pasture (though he was on 24/7 turnout before moving to the new barn the grass was not as good) which I am keeping an eye on, and POSSIBLY ulcers (yes we're going back to ulcers even though the scope showed nothing). I am going to give him some mylanta every day for 2 weeks. If symptoms seem to disappear or lessen, vet says it will mean he more than likely does indeed have ulcers. Once again though as with his gassy colic and lyme possibility, he is showing no other symptoms besides not wanting to be touched.

I am going to ask him about tick sensitivity monday as I forgot to today.
Any thoughts/ideas? He's stumping me big time. Poor guy. I am either afraid its something serious we're missing, or that its an attitude problem that is just getting worse because he's getting away with it...


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

*help!*

bump


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Yes a horse can be that sensitive to tick bites and have really allergic reactions to them. I could write a small book on that, living in Lone Star tick country with four horses:-(

Stomach ulcers have been eliminated; ask your vet to please check Drifter for hind gut ulcers - it's a simple thing these days.

Equine Colonic Ulcers: Hindgut Ulcers in Horses Causes and Symptoms | SUCCEED Equine

FAQs on How to Read & Interpret SUCCEED FBT Results | SUCCEED FBT

Or if the vet says he can't do the testing (because he doesn't have the kit), ask him if he stocks either of the microbials "Succeed" or "EquiOtic". 

They are pricey but if your horse really is dealing with hind gut ulcers, either of these products will make a new horse out of him in less than a week.

It's worth the money to me but you'll be splitting hot dogs for yourself for awhile:shock: Between these meds and the d**n feral cat getting an abscess in his jaw (he also got the other end lanced while he was knocked out at the vet's) my checkbook says I can't eat until July 4th:shock:

I paid $90 for 30 days of Succeed, that does not need a prescription. I just changed my horse to EquiOtic because the microbials are directly from horses. 

I had to get the EquiOtic from my vet and I can't see anywhere on the internet to order it without a prescription. The gals at the office didn't know what to charge me, so just handed me a 30 day supply and said "we'll bill you" :-|

*I also think it's an excellent idea to get Drifter tested for Lyme since it's a big issue in your area.*

I don't think Drifter's sandbagging, given everything that's been going on. A horse can't make up the passage of manure and large gaseous events to get one over on the owner.

Kudos to you for sticking with this and being so observant - something is going on with him, it's just a matter of figuring out what. I hope your vet sticks with you and doesn't wave his hand at you, as if it's nothing.


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## DriftingShadow (Jun 4, 2012)

Called and talked to my vet today about tests I want done on Monday.

I misunderstood the vet student I spoke to about Lyme in horses. Apparently down here in Mississippi it is common in dogs, but no so at all in horses. However, just to put my mind to rest we are going to continue to do a lyme test Monday. Worst case, it comes back negative and at least I know something that it is not. Which will eventually help in the long run.

And my vet is one of the equine doctors at mississippi state university's vet school, so he has access to the stuff for the hindgut ulcer test. I asked him if he would and he is more than happy to.

Hopefully we will get closer to answers. I am giving him mylanta now to see if we notice any difference, and he is getting a week of rest in case it is a sore issue from some kick or bite in the pasture that we are just not seeing.

Jingles would be appreciated all! This is so frustrating. Watching the vet cost add up compared to my college budget is a little daunting to say the least :/ I just want my boy healthy again


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Process of Elimination can sure get costly and frustrating

Please let us know all the results.

People who think horse owners are rich need to lurk in the health sections of these forums for about a week - lol


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## BeamerCorgi (Sep 19, 2010)

Be careful of the hindgut ulcer test. I know for fact that not everyone agrees with it. If a horse is showing blood in the stool it can be from a few things and you could be wayyyyyy down the road to ulcer city before the test picks it up. 
Equiotic should be only about $60 to $65.00 at the most. or $2.17 cents a day. But the benefits are huge. I have 5 on it and the shine in the coat is better. I had to back down the feed. They were getting fat as ticks.


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