# new Welsh Pony, critique her pls



## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Hi everyone, I'm new here,
I purchased this young ?5 y.o.? Welsh pony mare from a dealer two days ago. I think she's 13hh but I have not measured. She is the sweetest, bravest, funniest thing and we love her to bits already.

Questions for you experts!

1. Is she pure Welsh do you think (like a section B)
2. What do you call that color? A dapple grey who didn't get dapples? People have called her silver? Will she turn pure white? Are her feathers brown because that's left over form her baby color? What about her white throat?
3. Conformation? any probs?
4. If I took a picture of her teeth would you be able to tell her age prescisely? Her teeth look babyish to me but I am no expert.

P.S. Her feet look weird because she was trimmed down from "slippers" apparently. I think she'll be fine once I pull the shoes and have her trimmed naturally. 
Thank you!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

She looks pure to me. She is absolutely stunning!!!!! I think she is a very nice representative of the wonderful breed. Super nicely built.

Silver. I like the sound of that. Feathers could be dark just because of their more frequent exposure to dirt, feces or urine.

She is a doll!


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Hi, silverpony!

Your new pony is lovely! 

1. Is she pure Welsh do you think (like a section B) Could be! 
2. What do you call that color? A dapple grey who didn't get dapples? People have called her silver? Will she turn pure white? Are her feathers brown because that's left over form her baby color? What about her white throat? Yes, she will gray out as she gets older and eventually turn white. Most greys are whiter on the face or gray out sooner on the face. I would call her steel grey, but I am not a color expert. The feather on three of her legs are dark because the hair on those legs is dark; the feather on the white leg is white.
3. Conformation? Any probs? She has a lovely shoulder and neck, should be a nice mover. Also a lovely refined head. She is higher at the point of her croup than her withers, which makes her built slightly downhill. Her quarters are a little short from point of hip to point of stifle, and underdeveloped. Some of that is because of her age and will improve with time. Her short quarter, combined with the light feather, make me suspect she may have some Arab blood and may even be an Arabian cross. 
4. If I took a picture of her teeth would you be able to tell her age prescisely? Her teeth look babyish to me but I am no expert.

I can only give you an educated guess, but I'll bet someone on the forum can do better than that. Go ahead and post photos. 

She looks like a sweetheart. Enjoy her!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

This is a beautiful pony!


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

No crit, I think maura gave excellent info. Just wanted to say I think she's an adorable pony!


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks Horse forum girls! I got her on a "feeling" that she was special over any other full sized horses I looked at, and she was super cheap and the dealer was honest so I took the plunge! I feel better now that no one said she's got some major problem and she may be full Welsh.
I'll see about pics of her teeth, that should be an interesting photo session lol


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Good legs, nice length of rein, beautiful head on her, and she has a lovely arch to her neck. Yes, a little bum high - if she is indeed a baby as you suspect she may even out. She is maybe a tad bit straight in the back (I like a little bit more curve than that, but both of mine have quite straight backs so in my eyes it's an acceptable 'fault', just makes saddle fitting a little trickier - thankfully most pony saddles are straighter treed so you shouldn't have too much trouble) and yes, small in the hindquarter (will even out a bit with work and maturity). She is also perhaps a tad long in the back. Overall she is a nice pony with a couple of minor faults with her conformation - what horse is perfect? Legs are VITAL, she doesn't look like she has any major flaws there. The most serious fault I can see is the small hindquarter - the hindquarter being the driving force of forward movement, you want it to be as strong as possible - but as was said that may well even out with more work and maturity.


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

So perhaps she IS younger than 5...or barely 5...hmmm...and that's why her body looks like it does, this makes sense
She's also *whispers* fat, so maybe that's why she has no curve or withers? idk
thank youuuuu Maura and blue eyed pony especially, this is great info that I have no other way of getting!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I had a pony that got straighter as he lost weight, and a horse that got more curve as the same happened. No withers and being fat is neither mutually exclusive nor mutually inclusive. Fat can decrease the appearance of a wither the same as lack of topline can make a large/medium wither appear larger. However, some horses and ponies just have no withers AT ALL - my little welsh that I sadly sold a couple of months ago was one such pony, in very hard work (2+ hours EVERY day and he would be dripping with sweat by the end of every ride) - he was only just staying at nice body condition and we were only giving him his suppliments, grass hay, and grass (he used to eat the suppliments straight out of your hand) - and he had no wither no matter what. Tough little blighters, these Welshies. Bred to go all day and they can (and quite often do, if they're school ponies) manage just that.

I would have an equine dentist look at her teeth if you can, that's really the most reliable you're going to get. The equine dentist will know EVERY little marker of age as they will have been trained to look for these things - we don't necessarily know what to look for. I can tell between a young horse and an old one, which is helpful if you have a horse with a brand (you can tell if it's 6 or 16 pretty easily) but if you don't have that definite she IS either this or that, then it's hard to know for sure.

I won't pretend to be an expert but I see a lovely pony there that I would love to have - and I hate managing ponies!!


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks blue eyed pony, great info and great to know you own Welshies and think she's lovely! I actually had to Google Welsh ponies, how sad is that ? Lol (my other horse is a now 100% retired 17.1 OTTB) 
I hear the pony got a full vetting with x-rays and breathing test etc. from an investment buyer, who then had to back out because they were buying too many horses and overspent. I don't have the vet report of course but she passed everything so that saved me hundreds of dollars.
This will be quite the learning adventure for me, my daughter, and the pony. I'm thinking of trying some natural horsemanship stuff as I've not tried it before and I was watching my daughter play made up games with the pony at liberty, they both had such fun and the pony even will follow over jumps. I don't know. Right now I don't even have a thread of tack that will fit her so we haven't even ridden her. I hear she grew up on a sprawling ranch being ridden all over the countryside by kids and will jump any obstacle and trek out alone but no real arena work *sigh* So I'll have to remember how to start at the very beginning with the A B C's!! ack!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't own welshies any more - I got too big for my little one (he was 12.1hh and I'm 5'4") so he ended up being sold - but I'm constantly being told I have a good eye for a nice Welsh. I nearly bought a part-welsh colt but the man was just asking too much for what the colt was (unhandled 8 month old part-bred; I could have gotten a slightly older, better handled full Welsh for that price had I been able to go a little farther north to have a look!). So I ended up with my little buckskin bitza instead.

Whatever you do, DO NOT trust a WORD a horse dealer says! They are in the business of selling horses to make money so they will lie about a horse if they think they can suck someone into buying. Just go at it with the attitude that you have an unbroke youngster and you'll be a lot more successful than assuming she has the education you have been told she has. If she knows the basics - walk, trot, canter, stop and turn, with FORWARD movement - that is when you start to think she might actually be everything you were told she is, and that is when you try her over a small cross. If she is good jumping, then you find out how she is out (but BE THERE in case something goes wrong!), and if she is good then, she is what the dealer said she is. I would also suggest that rather than putting your daughter on her the first time, you have an experienced teenager or small adult ride her for you - someone who KNOWS their way around young, green ponies, and preferably someone who has started their own horse before. The last thing we HF'ers want is to see a thread in a few weeks' time along the lines of "she bucked my daughter off, help me stop her" or "she's dangerous and she hurt my daughter".

It may be safer, if you have a round pen, to stick her in there with the saddle on and ask her to work, before you put a rider on her at all. You'll get a picture of whether she's had such things on before, without putting your daughter at risk. First time putting weight on her back, have someone lean over her so they can jump off quickly if she does anything dangerous. Always take things slowly, brick by boring brick as it were, and make sure EVERY step is cemented and consistent BEFORE you move on to the next one. Skipping steps quite often leads to an overloaded pony, and an overloaded pony leads to problems.

One way to find out if she has at least the basic knowledge to be controllable under saddle is to put a bridle on her and lead her with the reins, using them to steer and stop her the same way you would use them to steer and stop her if you were riding her.

If you need any help feel free to PM me and if I know how, I'll help you. The one MOST IMPORTANT thing you need to know with her is that if you don't know, ask someone who trains horses all the time with great results, because guaranteed, they WILL know how to help you if they're worth their salt as a trainer. I'm no trainer, I'm not an expert in anything, but if I can help, I'm happy to help.


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Agree with your good advice!!! I re-read it carefully a few times. I don't know any training expert adult to ride her, going to ask around or else it's gonna be me. It will probably be me, I'm not that heavy.
I only saw her being ridden briefly by an adult at the dealers'. My daughter rode her for a couple of minutes in a round pen at the dealers and I only let her walk and trot and walk over some ground obstacles. I had her get off because even to my amateur eye I could tell the pony was being nice but very green! Like bright green.  But had a good attitude.

Ok the brick - by - boring - brick part. Agree with this. I will be verrrry confident in her manners and training before any child rides her. Do you have any favorite/best book on the subject? Something that begins on the ground? What are the bricks (so to speak) so I can read up on it? I know this is a forehead slap question, I realize that, I'm honestly trying to learn properly the steps to give her a solid foundation! 
Thank you from my heart for offering to answer my questions when I get stuck, I so appreciate that!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

There's one book that I got out of the library called Stoney's Guide to Training Horses that I really liked. They didn't really go into the HOW's of things as much as the SAFETY of things and how anger has no place when training a horse and stuff like that. It's really great and geared towards a person who has no idea what they're actually doing, but I don't think it's really a stand-alone guide. It works for me because I know what I'm doing to a certain degree but you may want to find a book or a person who can go through the HOW's with you.

I would say if you know she's broke to ride then just work on things at walk until she's balanced and relaxed - relaxed is KEY as a 3 in stress (0 being none 10 being bolting around everywhere freaking out) at walk turns into a 5 or 6 in stress at trot and then a 7-8 and upwards in canter, and that's where you have problems like being unable to stop your horse. Circles, straight lines, serpentines, perhaps a little lateral work to get her moving off the leg. When these things are GOOD and she's not 'wobbling off' because she's lost her balance, you move into trot. Every gait comes from the gaits underneath it, without a good walk you can't have a good trot and without a good walk and trot you can't have a good canter. So you want EVERYTHING consistent and 100% at walk before you move it up to trot, 100% at trot before you move it up to canter. 100% at canter on the flat before you shake it up and give her poles. See where I'm going with that?

On the ground you want her to move backwards off a light touch, or no touch at all (my horse moves off hand gestures), forwards at walk AND trot, you want her to move each body part when you ask where you ask. So you want her to move her shoulder away from you and she moves her hindquarter. It's an effort sideways, but it's not the right one - it means a sticky shoulder. A sticky shoulder means a sticky turn. You can also move a horse towards you on the ground but it's a lot harder to do so you want her to move AWAY on both sides consistently and easily before you even try it.

On the ground, if you have a lead rope attached to her SHE is with YOU and she must be where you put her at all times. If you're just hanging out in the paddock, YOU are with HER and she should be allowed to do what she wants as long as she's not rude. Rude can be as small as making a face at you.

It really isn't a facepalm question to wonder what the bricks are! It takes time, tact and feel to know instinctively what your horse should be doing before you move up to the next brick. I'm glad you're asking! It means you want to do the right thing by your pony. It will be boring and it will be VERY hard work but it will be worth it in the end.

It's not a problem at all  If no one gave freely of their knowledge, where would the horse world be today?

EDIT; in the book I mentioned there are a few things I personally do not agree with, so just read up as much as you can and try things and if they work for you and your horse, brilliant! If not, just try something else.


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Thank you so much for your well thought out post, you're incredibly patient. I like that you wrote that the free exchange of knowledge is important to everyone in the horse world! 
I studied everything you wrote. At least I have a project goal to start now, and it's going to be moving her body untill she's light and obedient. I'm starting today. I have lots to do on the ground and I'll get that book from Amazon...

I noticed that she is unclear that the person holding the rope is the boss (she was fairly polite untill she saw a empty feed bag of rice bran someone left in the barn aisle, and she dragged my daughter over to it then stuck her whole head and neck in it to lick the inside with relish, walking along with the bag over her head and paying no mind whatsoever to my kid. She moved on to stealing a brush and flipping it in the air and picking it up again like a game of self-fetch untill it hit her in the forehead and she didn't like it anymore. She took a can of soda from one of the little girls petting her. All this while on a lead being held by my daughter and me just shaking my head thinking "oh crud I've got more work to do than I thought. Um and NO treats for this pony!" But I didn't really know what the proper steps to correct her are, I can tell she's just never been taught at all) Starting today I'll set a better precedent. I'll update too!! Hugs!


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

She sounds like a little character  You might think about getting a rope halter if you don't already have on. I've gotten one so my son can lead around with a little more control. Sounds like you will be having a fun filled summer  If your unsure about how to train her then you might want to find a trainer to help you as you bring a young horse along till you become confident.

I have a Connermara/welsh mare thats going to be delivered in a week or so. She's a project as well. But I love projects!


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

cecillia b you must be psychic. How did you know I don't have a halter for her? You're right, she was in a web halter left over from my TB and it hangs so loose on her it's almost at her nostrils. I ordered a rope halter on ebay, waiting for it, my local store dosen't have any pony sized. 

Congrats on your new pony! I'd be interested to see what a connemara/welsh looks like. You must be losing sleep over waiting a week for her! Summer is the perfect time for projects, right?


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

They look fat LOL. At least this one is 

Yeah, that halter wouldn't give anyone much control! Our local tack store is a joke to. We make monthly trips up to charleston (about 1 hr away) for real shopping and do the rest on line.

I have actually been waiting almost a month for her because the truck that is being used to haul her needed tranny work and then there was a scheduling conflict with the seller for pick up. But I know she is being looked after 

Here are her sale pics. I am envious of your ponies silver color!







[/url]
Picture 1 by Cecillia B Photography, on Flickr[/IMG]


Picture 2 by Cecillia B Photography, on Flickr

One I snapped with cell phone. Trust me, I have a pony make over all scheduled for her  

CIMG0182 by Cecillia B Photography, on Flickr


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## Tamibunny (Jan 14, 2011)

*drooool*


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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

If either of these ponies goes missing, you'd be wasting your time looking at my place. I won't have them.

*wanders away, whistling innocently*


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Oh! pictures, yay....Hey! She looks like mine! (the white eyelashes make me swoon on any animal) Let's have a new green pony training competition! 

What are you going to use her for? How tall is she and how old?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

It's no trouble at all  I love your girl.

I also agree that it would be a good idea to get a trainer if you can. It's not always possible (I don't know where you are, I don't know how horsey your area is, and I don't know if you have a trailer or a trainer anywhere nearby who will travel) but if you can make it happen, do.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

Sounds like fun!

She's coming 4yo, 13.2 and I'm hoping she works out as a hunter pony in the future. For now they take lessons on my gelding and ride my friends 24 yo old Skeeter (yup, thats really his name). This summer and fall is just going to be getting her in shape and going confidently under saddling, riding around the Plantation, trailering wherever and miles miles miles. I plan to take her to a few local shows in the fall, not sure if I will show her or have an older kid show her.

How about yours??


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Well my daughter is 9 1/2 and has been taking lessons for a couple of years and has shown several times on dead broke QH's, now she loves jumping, I'm hoping the pony will make a cute hunter as well. Actually I've noticed that no one gets true ponies for their kids in this area (why is that???) there are usually large horses at the shows with children or maybe a horse that is only a pony by measurement. 
I want my daughter to learn more than she can in her hour long lessons on school horses, you know? To have the whole experience of a smart pony teaching her and vice versa....


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

I totally understand. 

Growing up I was so lucky to be exposed to every level of horse. I took lessons pretty much till I was 9 and then my Mom got a divorce and couldn't afford them but I was able to work for my trainer and earn them. I got to ride every level of horse, from no training to her show horses. She literally taught me everything, round pen work, join up, lunging, starting under saddle, starting over fences. The process of training is the part I love most. So fun to see them coming along! This one will be my 3rd project. 

My kids scoop poop every morning, feed, give supplements, help groom and bathe. I want them to be good horse people and understand all the aspects of care. I'm not a fan of just sticking a kid on a horse, paying for everything and them not being allowed to understand how much work goes into it all.


Your daughter and her pony look like they already have such a great bond! Around here large ponies or small horses are pretty popular. I think it's more of a european thing for kids to have "ponies" and they expect a whole lot more of their ponies then we do in the US. Maybe allot of people think they just arent capable? I did start looking at smaller ponies but my son is 6 and quite tall and so I wanted something that would last both him and his sister (who is 4). I'd hate to get something real little and then have to turn around and find something else in 5 years just when we have gotten to the point they want to!


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Cecillia your childhood experience was just priceless. How many girls would dream of being able to have a mentor like that?? Like you, I never want my daughter to be "one of THOSE " girls who never learn to do the hard work and earn the trust and the rewards. And I'm willing to bet that all that poop scooping etc has paid dividends in your kids' character!!
Re: ponies for kids, I guess we will think of ourselves as European, and I DO expect a lot from her! We'll be the only ones at the fall shows with a pony (if she's ready by then!) I am getting a week's head start on you, are you worried yet? (I'm totally kidding)


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

I'm shaking in my paddock boots! But I'll be rooting for you all the way 

Hope you post photos along the way and at shows!


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## thesilverpony (Jun 27, 2011)

Okay, so the pony is a total doll at walk and trot with my DD bareback, calm, and spooks at nothing. 
But she crowhops/protests/not -very-talented-bucks when asked for canter, as if she has never learned to canter with a rider. She keeps it up too. I laughed so hard but yeeaahh it's kind of a problem.  (This is with an advanced 12 y.o. girl I asked to try to canter her- but she used her own western saddle)
I'll have to start another training thread! So much to tell! Coming soon for your amusement!


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