# My mare won't stand still and it's not while mounting!



## Zoom (Apr 1, 2014)

Hey everyone! 

I bought a mare last month, I've ridden her a few times and she is a very sweet girl. I was told she was 5 or 6 but I just had her teeth floated and the equine dentist informed me she is 11. 

Anyway, I have one issue with her. She doesn't want to stand still when I'm riding her. I have tried searching on this problem and all I come up with is info on horses that won't stand still while mounting.

My girl, Cadance whom I call Dance and what an appropriate name because she won't stand still LOL, stands perfectly still most of the time while mounting and all the time while dismounting. BUT, when riding her if I stop her to do anything she is fidgety. The only time she will ever stand still for any amount of time worth counting is when I am done riding her and she is TIRED!

In the beginning she was also chomping at the bit, I tried a Paso Fino Cucho Training bit, then a tom thumb and finally borrowed and tried a walker bit with a 6 inch shank which is perfect.... she stopped her chomping and I now see a different horse but the dancing hasn't stopped.

One evening I took her out and we worked on it by me stopping her and talking to her and trying to get her to a calming down and once she was still I gave her the go ahead hoping that she will recognize that once she is quiet and still that I will let her go not because she wants to. I don't want this to turn into a battle every time I want to ride. This is the first horse I have had this issue with.

Any ideas?


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

You mention that your horse will stand still when you dismount but not stay at a halt when riding. This is a good clue to solving the problem. When I have had students with this problem, I generally tell them simply to sit as if they are getting ready to get off. This usually solves the problem. Why? A rider's intent usually brings about subtle changes in his body language. The horse senses this and responds to it.

A horse generally has a reason for wanting to move and this is seldom because they want to exercise. From what you have described, I get the impression that your horse is tense. You mention that you tried to calm her by talking to her when you stopped her. I would suggest several other things to relieve her general tension during the whole process of riding.

To do this, I would recommend using a simple snaffle bit with direct and consistent contact achieved through following hands so that you can have a direct feel with your horse's mouth. One ounce of pressure at your fingers will equal once ounce at your horse's mouth and vice versa.

Then try to release any tension in the muscles of your body. Any tension in the rider will be mirrored by tension in the horse. As you release tension in the muscles of your torso, you should feel your upper body grow as the bones of your spine stack one above the other forming natural shock absorbing curves. As you release all the tension in the muscles around your pelvis and throughout you legs, you should feel your legs lengthen. They will cling softly to your horse's sides without pressure. Your feet will hang below your body. The stirrups will support the balls of your feet and your heels will drop simply due to the pull of gravity. No muscular effort is necessary.

As your horse moves, think simply of balancing over your horse's center of balance and let your body move with your horse's body. If your muscles are tight and you are not moving with your horse's body, the horse must work harder to move, and its muscles will be more tense.

As you continue to do these things at a walk, you should feel the muscles of your horse soften. You might even hear a difference in the footfalls of your horse if your horse is walking on a hard surface.

While working using these techniques with one woman and her horse, I even had the woman sing to her horse. She later told me that the singing had helped her relax. I said, "Yes. And you relaxing helped your horse relax and your horse relaxing helped you relax even more." This woman works at a stressful job and calls our lessons her relaxation therapy session. She can now often stop her horse without any use of the reins.


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## Zoom (Apr 1, 2014)

Thank you TXhorseman... when I get ready to ride again I will reread this before I get on to refresh myself with what you said and apply it!  

I am just coming back to riding after a 20 year absence so it is very possible that I am tense without even realizing it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

circles are your friend. use them.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Zoom said:


> Thank you TXhorseman... when I get ready to ride again I will reread this before I get on to refresh myself with what you said and apply it!
> 
> I am just coming back to riding after a 20 year absence so it is very possible that I am tense without even realizing it.


Tension in the rider can be very deceiving. The rider I mentioned above came for a lesson one day. The horse she had been working with was not as relaxed as usual with her. Still, she seemed to be sitting well, and I hated to sound like a broken recorded give a pat instruction to relax.

At first I attributed the actions of the horse to the way others might have been riding her. My student hadn't ridden this horse for a few weeks due to weather and her work schedule.

Finally, I asked the woman, "How was your day?" She is an accountant and replied: "It's the end of the month, and that is always stressful." That response led me to have her sit with her horse standing still as I held the reins. I had her take her feet out of the stirrups and do various stretching and relaxation exercises we had worked on previously.

As she felt her muscles begin to relax, I had her begin riding again. Things went much better, and we finished the lesson with her stopping the horse simply by stopping her seat bones from following the horse's movements.


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## horse happy (Jun 15, 2010)

How timely! I've just logged on to find out about this very issue with my gelding! I am hopeful that i can apply this to him as well. He is a very quiet and steady trail horse, doesn't spook and won't move a muscle while I'm in the process of mounting but the moment my butt hits that saddle he is OFF and moving forward. It is very frustrating and I'm not sure how to fix it. As I said, he doesn't move at all until I am already committed to sitting down. I've tried circling each and every time and it doesn't seem to do any good. I've already ridden today but I'll try this approach tomorrow and see if it helps  Thanks!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

My horse has this problem when she gets full of anxiety, which happens when we cantor together because I'm terrible at it. I'm sure my terrible balance and stress comes through so loud and clear, it's impossible for her to remain calm.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

I tell my students of a comic strip I wish I had saved.

A little girl runs to her mother. "Spider! Spider!" she cries. Her mother says, "Oh, its just a little spider. Let's take it outside and turn it loose." The mother takes the spider up in her hand, carries it outside, and turns it loose. The little girls runs off smiling. The last frame of the comic strip shows the mother shivering with fright.

I tell my students that, just like the mother in the comic strip, their duty is to appear calm for their horse even if they are not, so that their horse will be reassured by their calmness and be calm itself.

Horses are very good at picking up the body language they see displayed by other horses. Think of how much more responsive they can be in feeling the body language of their rider.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Hi there!
_I saw 2 red flags that caught my attention immediately....._

*Tom Thumb, and 6 inch shank! *

Personally, I would never, ever, ever, ever use either on any horse- 

Inducing that kind of pain to get a horse to obey is just not the way it was meant to be. Please do some serious research as to the use of _gentle_ bits, and then see your results. 

I've gone from gentle bits to 100% bit less, and I love that my horses are comfortable, as well as compliant. The very best of luck to you!


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## Zoom (Apr 1, 2014)

TxHorseman, I took my mare out yesterday morning but tried something different. I went in a completely different direction. Took her down into some pasture near my home... I didn't have any issues there... So it got me thinking... if you can give me your thoughts.

The previous path I have always taken her on is a trail behind my home in the woods.. and the further we get on the trail the more anxious she gets. I wasn't putting this together until I took her through the pastures yesterday and she was so good and then afterward I took her down the trail. I started feeling the anxiety in her on the trail. So I had to try to think on what changes on this trail. 

The trail is probably easily a half mile long. At the other end of the trail, actually about 3/4's into the trail we always get into an area that has a large amount of those huge deer flies and they attack both horses. I spray them before going through but it doesn't stop them. Is it possible that she is feeling the anxiety of that beforehand when we start down the trail.

On a side note, to NorthernStar, as you know not all horses can be ridden bitless. That would be awesome if it were the case. What you said though was taken into consideration. 

When I got this mare I was not given any info on her and so I was at a loss what to try on her, the lady I got her from had tried two different bits on her.... both with a lot of bit chomping.... so I talk to one person at a tack shop and he said you can't get any milder than a tom thumb. I talk to someone else and they say this and someone else said that. With all the opinions how will anyone do what is right? So I am at the mercy of trying what I can try and it gets expensive. What I did do was try my friends walker bit with 6 inch shanks and the chomping etc that she did do with two other types of bits and the tom thumb stopped. To be honest, I haven't tried the tom thumb on her after she had her teeth floated so that may even work OK NOW. I just thought the walker bit was worth a try since my friend offered. I rode her two different days with this set up and she was very good with it so in order to try to go even milder I did buy the 4 inch shanks with a walker bit. This horse may have been broke on a walker bit with shanks? I don't know, but I have to try what I can until I find what works and I believe I have. One horse may be in pain with a tom thumb, one may be in pain with shanks, one may be comfortable with either, each horse is different.


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## PhoenixBlaise (Jan 16, 2014)

Saddle fit and type of saddle may also be an issue. 
My Kentucky Mountain Horse is a dancing, spooking fool if ridden in a saddle she doesn't like and quiet as a mouse in a saddle she does like, or bareback.
I also transitioned her to bitless, originally she was trained to go in huge shanked bits by previous owner, she is much quieter and more responsive without worrying about possible pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PhoenixBlaise (Jan 16, 2014)

...a really inexpensive way to see if it is saddle and/or bit is to ride bareback with a halter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Zoom said:


> ...What I did do was try my friends walker bit with 6 inch shanks and the chomping etc that she did do with two other types of bits and the tom thumb stopped. To be honest, I haven't tried the tom thumb on her after she had her teeth floated so that may even work OK NOW. I just thought the walker bit was worth a try since my friend offered. I rode her two different days with this set up and she was very good with it so in order to try to go even milder I did buy the 4 inch shanks with a walker bit...


I'm not a fan of Tom Thumbs, but I also don't believe they are the epitome of evil. I am a fan of western curb bits because my nervous mare is much calmer when ridden in one. I believe they are gentler than a snaffle if ridden with slack reins and without snatching on the reins. Used properly, I think they are gentler than bitless.

My mare laughs at bitless options She does fine in a snaffle unless she gets excited. Then she gets the bit in her teeth and fights a snaffle. With a curb, she simply gives in. Over time, that has made her a much calmer & happier horse.

The other thing that helped was making stopping well a high priority. We practice it regularly. Fidgeting = backing up. If I can, I sometimes stop her where she can grab a mouthful of grass, then let her do so as her reward for a good stop. We worked on it first at a walk, then a trot, and finally at a canter/gallop. I don't want a sliding stop, just a good faith effort to slow and stop. As she got better at it, we worked our way up to stopping and resting for a minute.

This is a video that helped me. It may or may not help you, but it is a good video anyways. Good luck!


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## Zoom (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks PhoenixBlaise, I have also considered it being the saddle, I have ridden her in 2 different Simco saddles and I am not sure what the brand is on the one I use on her now. My friend just purchased a Big Horn gaited saddle with the gel seat and she said I could try it on her to see how it fits. It's awesome having a friend that will share  

I am also thinking of trying her bareback. I have to be honest here LOL, I am older now and bareback isn't as easy as it was when I was a younger chick LOL.


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## Zoom (Apr 1, 2014)

I suppose it very well could be the saddle... I got her out and put the bridle on her, brushed her off and hopped on. She stood for a while as I talked to my husband. She has never done that! Then I rode her a little and then took her to a field with a lot of grass in it and I stopped her. She stood a minute then bent down and grazed while I was on her back, I let her for a little while. She has never done that either. So, I guess I may be in the market for a saddle. The next step is trying my friends Big Horn Gaited saddle.




PhoenixBlaise said:


> ...a really inexpensive way to see if it is saddle and/or bit is to ride bareback with a halter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Zoom said:


> TxHorseman, I took my mare out yesterday morning but tried something different. I went in a completely different direction. Took her down into some pasture near my home... I didn't have any issues there... So it got me thinking... if you can give me your thoughts.
> 
> The previous path I have always taken her on is a trail behind my home in the woods.. and the further we get on the trail the more anxious she gets. I wasn't putting this together until I took her through the pastures yesterday and she was so good and then afterward I took her down the trail. I started feeling the anxiety in her on the trail. So I had to try to think on what changes on this trail.
> 
> The trail is probably easily a half mile long. At the other end of the trail, actually about 3/4's into the trail we always get into an area that has a large amount of those huge deer flies and they attack both horses. I spray them before going through but it doesn't stop them. Is it possible that she is feeling the anxiety of that beforehand when we start down the trail.


It sounds like you are beginning to understand some of the many factors that can affect a horse's behavior. You are becoming more aware of your horse and what is happening in your surroundings. Input from posts on forums can only provide ideas which you must test. This is what anyone needs to do. The broader the knowledge and experience of the "tester" the better chance there is of finding a solution. Of course there may also be more than one way to solve a problem, but you want to find the best way -- the one that will make both you and your horse happy.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Zoom said:


> TxHorseman, I took my mare out yesterday morning but tried something different. I went in a completely different direction. Took her down into some pasture near my home... I didn't have any issues there... So it got me thinking... if you can give me your thoughts.
> 
> The previous path I have always taken her on is a trail behind my home in the woods.. and the further we get on the trail the more anxious she gets. I wasn't putting this together until I took her through the pastures yesterday and she was so good and then afterward I took her down the trail. I started feeling the anxiety in her on the trail. So I had to try to think on what changes on this trail.
> 
> ...


 Please forgive me for seeming so adamant, but I must, for the sake of your horse's mouth - whom ever it was that said, "You can't get any milder than a tom thumb" doesn't care or know a thing about pain in a horse's mouth. So glad you haven't tried it, and there's no reason on earth you or anyone should! Kudos to you! Long shanks as well..... If you feel you must use a bit, there are 2 kinds that I'm aware of that are gentle - the O Ring, or the D Ring Snaffle.... (correct me, folks, that know of _gentle_ bits more than I). So glad you're not the type to stick anything in your horse's mouth and call it good. If you wipe the words 'tom thumb' completely out of your memory, _you're at a win/win_ _with your horse who cannot tell you the pain they're_ _in_.. Keep up the good work!


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## PhoenixBlaise (Jan 16, 2014)

Zoom, That's wonderful! 
Most tack stores and online stores will let you do demos for saddles. No matter how well fit the saddle, my KMH will not tolerate any of my heavy western saddles. She loves my synthetic Circle Y though and is thrilled to go on trail in my dressage saddle. She also loved the treeless that I demo-ed, but I couldn't find one with a narrow twist for myself. 

I understand being older and not as well balanced as we were when we were kids flying around the countryside bareback.
Good luck on the saddle hunt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

You also need to reinforce the stand still when working with horse on ground.

I will halter in stall, and just stand, ask them to back, and just stand. And I don't jabber or pet...I just stand there. And if horse fidgets...I tell them quietly to be still.

When I lead horse out of stall, I will stop dead, no talking, looking straight ahead and horse must stand there, if moves, be still, and we stand longer.

I change up pace of leading, from fast walk to barely creeping and horse is expected to match my pace. And then I stop. And we back up, with me staying in position but stepping back and telling horse to back up.

When put horse up...horse has to stand still, and wait for me. I ask for back up, move over, move to, and come up...and then we stand.

When mounting, you need to make horse stand, and count off to 30 or more in your head. And when riding, you need to just stop and stand. No talking, just sitting and if horse fidgets, tell it to be still.

Horse will learn that you are running the show, you make decisions and not them, and that it gets to move when you want it to.

Make sure though that your saddle is not pinching and that is why horse is moving under you, or that there isn't a problem with saddle, as it could well be causing this. And that your hands are good too.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree with re evaluating the bit. I'm glad she tolerates it but do not think it's the best option unless your mare flat out doesn't like more mild bits (some horses don't.

She may just like the port. If she's always had a big bit she may just be used to that. It may be her training too.

Tom thumbs are lousy bits and not super mild.

I would go to a very quiet bit, less hardware in her mouth, short or no shanks, with a port. It also wouldn't hurt to try a basic snaffle on her.

If she still likes what you have that is fine but I would rule out better options first.


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## Zoom (Apr 1, 2014)

*I tried the Flex tree saddle*

Rode Cadance today with my friends Big Horn flex tree saddle for gaited horses and she did great. She was so well behaved and I even doubled my friends little girl and Dance was excellent. I stopped on a few occasions to see what she would do and she cooperated except for one time when we first started out, I was trying to button my shirt so she may have felt me wiggling. Other than that she did very well and I am pleased, it's progress and I feel satisfied that we are on our way to getting this resolved. 

About the bridle... I don't mean any disrespect to anyone but I do not see myself ever riding any horse bitless. I am very easy on the mouth, have ridden since I was a little girl and though I did take some years off and am now coming back I have never ruined a horse's mouth, going bitless is something others may feel comfortable with but I just don't when I am out in the mountains or by the highway... 

Although when I was a child I did ride my pony Indian style with only a loop around his nose that was long enough to have one rein.  I saw it on TV once LOL.... It was a lot of fun but he was the most gentle trustworthy pony ever! He was awesome. I could lay back on him and say go home Tony and he would walk to the house with me laying on him. LOL, to be a kid again. :wink:


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

OP, I'm glad that you have the saddle issue figured out! :-D At least your horse tells you, mine was so stoic about saddle fit that I rode him for almost in a year in a saddle that didn't even close to fit once he bulked up a bit. I knew next to nothing about saddle fit and someone had told me that it looked like it fit him nicely so I didn't think twice about it. 

Bits however... Bits are a different story with him altogether! If you put a bit in his mouth that he doesn't like he will absolutely let you know. Doesn't matter if you have a twisted mouthpiece with 12" shanks (I did NOT try this, just an extreme example), if he doesn't like it he will run right through it. He is also not a fan of regular snaffles, although he was trained in one so is used to it. I currently have him in a Jr. Cowhorse with a waterford mouth (broken in 3 places and at the shanks) that he LOVES. He also has his show bit which is a low port Billy Allen with medium shanks and a slight gag action. Both give him plenty of warning before they engage and the Jr. Cowhorse gives me the option of which ring I place the reins on so I can technically use it as a snaffle as well. He is super soft using all of these options. If I use a regular snaffle he's just OK.

I know there are a few people on here who claim that bits "only cause pain" which is simply not true. Of course you should always use the mildest bit possible and one suited to your riding level, but if you have soft hands and a well trained horse, the biggest, meanest bit in the world won't matter if you never have to touch it (considering that it sits neutrally in the horse's mouth from the start, e.g. a correctly fitted spade)! :wink:


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