# Arena/House/Land deal, want ideas.



## WYOHorseman68 (Jul 24, 2018)

Hello all, Before I make a decision about the property I found, Id like to ask anyone who may have encountered a similar situation to help me if possible:

Found a nice 10 acre horse property 17 miles out of town (Wyoming) that includes an indoor arena 105X150, 7 indoor stalls, an outdoor arena, access easement, lights in all areas, power at all stalls, 2 HUGE roll up doors at each end of the arena plus a side door for the horses to go outside at will and a (human) walk through door at the south end of the arena. Sounds like a dream right?...the kicker: there is no house on the property. One end of the arena, behind a wall where the stalls are located, is open and there used to be 12 stalls total. The current owner downsized and took out 5 stalls. 

My idea: Convert the end of the arena to living quarters for me and my girlfriend. Second pic shows where I'd like to build a house (where 5 stalls were removed) I currently have one horse and my GF wants her own plus maybe 2 more, no more. Since I don't need even the current 7 stalls for 4 horses, I planned to leave all 7 stalls intact and use the empty stalls for a grain room and maybe extra tack storage. There is existing saddle storage and tack hangs on the back of the wall currently. (just beyond white fridge) Last pic shows the interior wall inside the arena, behind it is where the stalls are located. 

Do I need to to worry about ventilation living in close proximity to my horses? Is it going to be more cost effective to drop a mobile home on the property and call it a day? Can I simply move an RV into the arena while I'm building my house? I'd like to make good use of my money and make good decisions BEFORE I pull the trigger. As you can see from the pics, it's not hard to fall in love with this property, everything is all built: nice pipe corrals, grading work mostly done, etc. 

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Your friend in horse world,

Robert


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

You can live in an RV while building a house. It is done all the time. You will be much happier, or at least your girlfriend will be, in a place you can clean, heat, wash dishes in a sink, and go to the bathroom without freezing to death. Getting a mobile home may be an even better idea, depending of the quality and size. 

If you are planning to build the house yourself, and have never done so, get a mobile home. It's going to take you awhile. Speaking as someone who has built a house. In your climate you can't mess around with half-done.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

There are laws about housing as part of a barn/facility. Insurance has a lot to say on the subject as well. I have friends with apartments in barns and had they not have been designed as a part of the whole and professionally built it would have been miserable as well as (in her state) uninsurable. Does the barn have a restroom connected to a septic system? If so you can connect the RV or plan on finding a location that you can dump. There are totables that you can load up on a small trailer and perhaps pay a fee at a local RV campground to dump there. I assume there is water. I would not put the RV in the barn or arena but would place it where it gets protection from the building. The dust and sand will be an issue if it is inside.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Temporary housing in a camping trailer or rv is done all the time for those who travel to_ warmer climates i_n winter months...
I would not be parking my housing inside my indoor arena when you are also going to be wanting to ride indoors...
You will need a full septic/sewer hook-up, a reliable water supply that won't freeze in Wyoming into your living accommodations and a fantastic insulated accommodation so you *not* freeze to death during winter.
Downfalls of doing what you consider is filth, dust, reduced air-flow and natural breezes along with flies, smell and air allergens you will be immersed in...not the best for your lungs 24/7.


I repeat..._Downfalls of doing what you consider is filth, dust, reduced air-flow and natural breezes along with flies, smell and air allergens you will be immersed in...not the best for your lungs 24/7._
You think you could do this, want this but when it is a possible no end in sight living arrangement I believe this would become old fast.
If it were me, as temporary housing fine, well, maybe...a definite date of done a must for me.
I would either site build during the wait time or have installed a manufactured home so "instant" home that is a real home you will want when you consider all the things you will do without or need to go elsewhere for for comforts of home.
Better insulation, ability to have friends in your home for a day/evening, guests over and stay a night...just the ability to get out of each others face and have some space of your own...
The ability to bar-b-que, sit outside and not have to have a horse stomping noise in your ear, flies pestering you or just seeing the chores always needing done looking you in the face.
Just being able to have a some yard without horse attached is nice _{my horses live on my land with a grass yard buffer zone between us}_
Interim is fine, permanent would _not_ be for me...
More importantly...
Look into your area fire and zoning codes...bet there is a reason the previous owner removed stalls and a existing building... :|
I can't imagine undoing if it looked at all like what your pictures depicted, _not willingly_...something went wrong.
Do your homework thoroughly...
And get a building inspector to inspect that place very carefully_* pre-purchase.*_
Electrical and plumbing able to support living accommodation _*is*_ far different than supporting a barn and the small needs that requires.
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I think horslovinguy has covered things well.

Do have a talk with the local municipality/county office about this (specifically zoning restrictions, sewer water requirements, road access, etc). Their response is the first step in the process - if they say no to your ideas then that ends matters; if they say yes then you can move forward. I suspect if you are moving forward you next steps are a talk with your insurer followed quickly by securing a good contractor.

I have seen well done living quarters as part of an indoor arena, fwiw. All things are doable it just becomes a question of cost.

Good luck - I hope it works out for you.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

If it is in Wyoming, check, and double check, the water rights. 

Several people in the eastern half of the state ( that's the part I run around) have house/barn combinations. They do not have problems with ventilation. The wind keeps things moving nicely. 

Just check those water rights.


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## WYOHorseman68 (Jul 24, 2018)

Thank everyone who responded. BOOTS, I will check the H2O rights. QtrBel, your idea about insurance is key and I cannot thank you enough for pointing that out. Chevaux, great straight to the point analysis about cost, I like it!
Avana, I'm seriously leaning toward a mobile home for the building phase, I've even found a few that include setup in the price, thank you.

I have looked at a few other properties that do not have an arena but have indoor stalls and access to runs/pasture that are 100K less than the proposed arena idea, so that isn't completely out of the mix either. I had no idea a fully functional arena would cost me (well) over 200K with no land, so since the deal is just under 270K with 10 acres, doesn't sound like a bad deal after seeing some arenas that cost upwards of 400K PLUS!

Most of the fun is in the shopping phase and planning out where/what I want and need for 3 to 4 horses. Onward...

Thanks again everyone, I enjoy talking horse language with my human friends.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Nice place!! 

The stalls were probably removed for hay and/or shavings storage. Possibly place for tractor even. 

The big question in my mind is; Did someone ever live there and if so, What did they live in? 

1) Check the easement rights, those always make me nervous. Would not want to buy property and not be able to visit it. 

2) Check water availability. No water = not livable for horses or humans. 

3) Check building codes; if possible would place a mobile home until home could be built. 

4) Check to see if there is septic already on property and how big it is. 


Personally I see nothing wrong in having a house attached to the stable, would love it actually!! Much nicer in bad weather to just open a door, lol. Used to dream of having a big picture window in my living room looking out at the horses in their stalls. Could watch that picture show all day log 

But I would add on to what is there not cut anything out. You may need to park equipment or hay rolls or whatever in the arena. Rarely see places that don't store stuff in them!

However, some places will not insure an all in one building. May need fire walls for legal purposes. 


Can't wait to see what you do with it!!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

After you check the insurance deal, check with a good insulation company. My barn is built on a metal frame, so the “office/apartment” is framed seperately, and it is turning out to be VERY difficult and expensive to insulate.....which must be done before the sheetrock!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

You'd probably be better off to put a mobile home on the property and build a house. Most of the barn/home combos are built very differently and to a different code than a barn/arena, so insurance is going to be a big concern.


I agree with the others that water is most important. 

Find out what the previous owners lived in, and why they moved. They may have built their horse facility and then realized they couldn't legally put the home they wanted on that land. Some don't allow certain types of homes. If you want to do a barn/home combo, add on rather than building inside the barn. You're going to want that space for hay/bedding storage or something eventually.


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## Rawhide (Nov 11, 2011)

Also get an established title insurance company (checks out liens etc) and if you have never done this on your own a real estate lawyer near closeing. 

And never disclose the exact location to people lots of time if its a great deal you will do the groundwork looking for the rite property and you tell the wrong person/group and they will buy it out from under you to resell . 

Remember taxes/insurance throughout the years go up figour it out if on a budjet .
Like others mentioned water / mineral rites and EASEMENTS very important .
Landlocked propertys are usually an expensive lesson in and out of court ..................


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## WYOHorseman68 (Jul 24, 2018)

Hello again everyone, thank you for a wealth of knowledge. So far I've only disclosed the property was in Wyoming, nothing more!

Since I'm still deciding on my next course of action, I found another property with an arena:
View attachment 968455


This one is 80x105 fabric building, heated on 10 acres. Since I have no experience with fabric buildings I can only deduce that the obvious questions I should ask the realtor are:

Is there water or drains anywhere?
Is the fabric sewn or heat shrink?...is the fabric single panel or multi panel?
What is the age of the building?
Has there been any recent damage from storms?...does it flood during heavy rains?

This property sits right next to an interstate so finding the place is not a problem ever!

What am I missing?......this has been fun....thanks for making my arena shopping experiences a blast everyone. 

R


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## Rawhide (Nov 11, 2011)

Looks like an interesting concept . Me myself dont know anything about them.
I would be concerned about a direct lightning strike , continueous windspeed resistance , how many years they have been building them , and how much of a hail pounding can they take . Also getting it appraised and insured might be a concern . I would tend to think those type of structures dont hold there resell value much . I could be wrong on some of those points but they would be concerns of mine . 

https://alaskastructures.com/construction/things-to-consider-before-buying-tension-fabric-buildings/


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Find out what the brand of arena is. Some last forever, some don't.


They are pretty popular around here due to lower cost and letting in light. The good ones stand up to wind and storms better than the steel building arenas at a fraction of the cost. They are used frequently for housing cattle, as well, and ones down the road from my parents have been there 30 years and still look good. 



Also make sure a fabric building counts as a permanent structure and is eligible for a loan. Does the new possibility have a dwelling on the property?


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## WYOHorseman68 (Jul 24, 2018)

The new property does not have a house on it currently. 

Met this morning with the realtor who has the property for sale (listing agent), she pointed out a few things, one being the property has not been sectioned off from the larger portion of land where the arena sits. Current owners want the property lines drawn up having the purchaser involved in that process, which tells me they want me happy so I'll stay a long time, being a good neighbor. I've attached some pics of the new possibility, I think it has a nice feel to it. Little smaller 85X150 but still plenty for me and my girlfriend to ride. 
One of my good friends told me it takes something like $650.00 a month to heat the arena in winter for like 4 hours a day. The heaters are gas. Anyone have similar experiences in cold climates with gas heaters?
Robert
View attachment 968501


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Do you HAVE to heat it? Unless it's horrifically cold, the sunlight coming in keeps them pretty comfortable. It gets as cold and windy here as it does in Wyoming, and I honestly don't know of anyone who heats their arena-- some have an attached barn that is heated just enough to keep the pipes from freezing, but the arenas stay pretty comfortable with just sunlight and the wind blocked.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

$650/mo to heat it during Dec, Jan, and Feb is you are using it daily. You'll be a regular on the LP tank route. Before and after that you'll get enough variety, you shouldn't need to heat it every day (ride in the afternoon). But, the price for heat sounds about right. 

Even being fabric and letting light in, some claim it is colder to ride indoors than out. Even with wind. Still, They are nice for getting horses legged up earlier in the spring or riding after the sun goes down a 4 in the afternoon.


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## WYOHorseman68 (Jul 24, 2018)

Howdy all, been a few days since I've posted, thought I'd bring everyone up to date on what's going on. The property with the fabric arena is about 100K overpriced according to every scenario I've researched. After speaking to many local people I've decided not to pursue that deal UNLESS they want to come to their senses and price the property more in line with it's value. 

The other night I was over at my friends farm (where I board my "little" Quarter/Draft cross) and the friend who was there decided to offer me 40 acres with a house and a shop that sit's 15 minutes farther away from work. His deal was so good I could afford to scratch build my own arena and still have a nice chunk of equity, not to mention 40 acres where my horses would have ample room to run and stretch out! So currently I'm talking with my bank and seeing if this deal can go through. The property isn't listed for sale so I don't have to rush, which is nice. 

So my next set of questions are about building your own indoor arena: Time, cost, size, selecting a contractor, putting the funds in the mortgage or paying out of pocket? Your ideas are what I seek. I need an arena big to accommodate 3 to 4 riders in case I have company, otherwise my and my girlfriend will be the ones riding primarily. I'm thinking 100 wide by 200 long?, with stalls for winter and an indoor section for hay storage. Tack room wouldn't hurt either!

Thanks (again)

Robert


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Sounds like a fabulous opportunity!! 

I think the arenas are commonly 120x250. The extra 50' on the end can be stalls, tack room, feed room, wash stall, hay storage, bathroom, laundry (horse laundry area is such a nice convenience), equipment for maintaining arena, etc. 


Also can run a line of stalls and aisle along the 20' extra width and still have 100x200 riding area. 


I'm not clear on what kind of riding you do, but sure is convenient to have an "all-in-one" place for your horse riding.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Have been following along a bit out of curiosity, and I think it's great that you're looking at a 40 acre property. Around here, the single biggest mistake I see with people building facilities like this is not enough land. Someone just built a beautiful new boarding barn in our area with stalls and run-ins, but zero turnout. Each horse has a small run-in that's maybe 15 x 40 feet, that's it. I just don't get it. Heck, I have 13 acres (5 of which is pasture) for two small horses, and I wish I had more! 40 acres is good. Even if a lot of land is unusable for pasture, you can pick the best areas, and work them over a bit for pastures. With the rest, you can create your own little trail system in there, and it leaves areas for things like manure removal, a hay storage facility (another big mistake people make! If you are building an arena and barn, allow enough room to store your hay for the year!). 

I've never built an indoor (best go buy those lottery tickets), but have a friend who did, and one of the biggest costs was the foundation/footing. Depending on what kind of soil you have, you'll likely need some significant amounts of fill brought in. But I'm sure you already know all this. 

Very exciting! Do keep posting so we can live vicariously through you!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Around here, if you're doing a traditional steel building, 80' wide is the limit most contractors will do for a wood-framed steel building without pillars due to snow/wind and lumber availability. If you are doing a fabric building or steel trusses, it can be wider. I really like the light in the fabric buildings around here-- they are bright and airy and open. 


This is a good link to start your info gathering with: https://www.horsejournals.com/acreages-stables/barns-stables/building-indoor-riding-arena


When researching your purchase, make sure the property has water access, water rights, and see how much it is going to cost to bring in electrical and/or natural gas hookups. Also, what rules are for septic and leach zones.


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## WYOHorseman68 (Jul 24, 2018)

The search continues: One of my friends caught wind that I'm in the market for a farm and she spoke to one of her friends who just happens to be selling their place. Therefore tomorrow I'm off to look at another property that already has horses. Little smaller: 20 acres but there is a HUGE shop (3 large roll up doors) and barn already in place; no arena (yet)

I've learned so much over the past weeks about wells, water rights, wind directions, snow drifting in what places during winter, fences, etc. I must say, as I shop the deals keep getting better and better. Eventually I'll have to pull the trigger I know. For now I'm having a blast looking.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Mobile home is the way to go. Locate it in a way that you will have privacy from your future house you will build but still tie into the water, septic, power. The mobile can be rented out when you get your house built and help pay the mortgage.


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## WYOHorseman68 (Jul 24, 2018)

*done looking for now*

After several farm visits, I've decided to suspend my farm/ranch buying plans for now. Winter is about to pay me a friendly visit and I need to spend the rest of the "non" snow fall getting the rest of my bales hauled so TUG has enough hay until May/June. 

Thank you: everyone who offered advise. It's been a fun adventure seeing places and speaking with horse people who enjoy the thrill of buying a new place. This process has educated me about land, water rights, insurance, which way the barn and arena should face, cost, financing, neighbors, local politics, county ordinances, etc. 

Until next season....T H A N K Y O U!

Robert


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