# Opinions On "Leg Flapping"?



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I find if I'm really loosey goosey then my legs flap. But if I'm quiet and fluid they stay put.

As long as you're riding effectively then it shouldn't be an issue


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## Tupelo (Jun 20, 2013)

well when i rode english, the particular saddle i used, the stirrups always fell off with me riding, but not when anyone else rode in it. So i dont know what i did. No one ever said anything


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Since this is in the western riding section - no to leg flapping.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> Since this is in the western riding section - no to leg flapping.


Didn't see that, sorry for posting..


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Didn't see that, sorry for posting..


Haha don't apologize!!! There shouldn't be too much leg flapping either way! LOL!


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

What kind of leg flapping, the barrel racer kind?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm going to assume we're talking about how barrel racers "fly away" on the way between barrels and home.

I see no place for it. If you're grabbing the horn for dear life and flapping your legs..You'd better hope that horse doesn't decide to throw in a buck or decide to spook at something outside the arena (or a groundhog running through the arena..lol. had that happen once at a show). No way in hell are you balanced with flapping legs running at full speed. And if that horse just completely stops? Uh-Oh, you're over it's head, face-first.

Not to mention, because you can't flap your legs like I see these girls without slamming down on your horse's back each stride..It isn't helping your horse go faster, it's honestly slowing them down. No finished horse should stay at a dead run with a rider bouncing all over the place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Iseul said:


> It isn't helping your horse go faster, it's honestly slowing them down.


I agree. If "leg flapping" helped a horse go faster, the jockeys in the Derby each May would all be doing it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Iseul said:


> I'm going to assume we're talking about how barrel racers "fly away" on the way between barrels and home...


Thank you. I was trying to figure out what "leg flapping" meant. Now all I need to do is figure out how anyone would consider it helpful...:shock:


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I honestly kind of find it sad..Because half the time if their mount was just let go and had the rider sit in a balanced, forward seat, a lot of them would have faster times and be placing..Yet they flap and bounce around on their horses and slow them down..And of course they get upset when they don't place.

I'm hoping I can change the fad to "look like you're doing nothing to make the horse go" and then winning when I get Alahna all finished up 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Depends what the OP was referring to. 

Any unstable lower leg (whether English or Western) would be undesirable; especially if it can "flap" front to back or side-to-side if the rider is unbalanced. 

But if the OP meant barrel racing "leg flapping", well that's extremely ineffective as well.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ Kind of like flying in formation, only with a horse...


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

It makes me mad. But then, the poor horsemanship on part of many amateur barrel racers makes me mad. Took one of the 4H girls at my barn to a gymkhana last weekend and the amount of shank-yanking, leg-flapping, spur-stabbing and arm-waving made me so mad. Doesn't anyone understand the value of quiet, supportive hands and seat?!


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

boots said:


> I agree. If "leg flapping" helped a horse go faster, the jockeys in the Derby each May would all be doing it.


It's impossible...their legs are too short.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Alright, here we go again...

Some horses respond like a rocket to it. Some don't.

There's a difference between bouncing and kicking and flapping your legs.

No, it doesn't exist in any other sport.

If you're going to do it, you have to do it right. And yes, there is a "right" way to do it. It's just that most people don't know how.

When I kick Selena out of a barrel, she gets one strong "Get going, NOW." kick. It's with my calves, not my spurs. If my spurs were to be used, she'd toss me right off. The only time my spurs are engaged is when I roll them on her side on the backside of a barrel. That's a difference between a kick and a roll. The roll says "finish the turn" and the kick says "Fire". 

The "flapping" as we are referring to it should be done in time with stride. It really doesn't make a difference whether you do little flaps or massive flaps (Which I just find exhausting, LOL) If you do it properly with stride, you'll push them forward in stride.

Some horses hate that though. And I mean hate it. Some will actually extend and respond to it. That's one of those touchy things about barrel horses that people don't seem to understand. They aren't cookie cutters. 

Same with riders. I may or may not hold onto my horn running home. Its not that I have to, it's just that I'm already holding my horn for the third turn..What benefit is it to me to let go? People can sit and say, "Oh, she must have a bad seat" all they want but I can still run that pattern bareback if I wanted. It's no problem of mine if someone wants to judge. 

There have been times when Selena has fired so hard out of the third that I have felt my back pop...If I can use that horn to spare my spine, I sure as hell will. It's too easy to make a mistake going 40mph. I may not need the horn, but I'm not consciously thinking "Oh, better let go, my seat is good enough to stay on." I'm thinking more about how fast my pony can get back across the timer. Everything else, as long as I'm not hindering or hurting my horse or myself, is irrelevant to me.


Watch the NFR. Some kick more going home. Some sit quieter. Is anyone going to say either one of those girls has a bad seat and doesn't know what they're doing?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

SorrelHorse said:


> Alright, here we go again...
> 
> Some horses respond like a rocket to it. Some don't.
> 
> ...


Interesting.

So, you think some would not respond to being taught to run? That they need the encouragement of the "flapping" even in time with stride, or they would not run as fast? They would not give their best effort without it?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Some horses will naturally shut down. These are push style horses. Free running horses won't need it. Some people choose the flap, some people choose gentle nudges, some people choose a whip. It's all about the girl finding what works.

A horse can be taught to run and schooled to perfection at home, but they know where that line is at a show and a lot of them will hunt it.

Key word: Some. Some do respond well to the flapping. It's also important to remember the "flap" shouldn't unseat you, and it shouldn't be a jabbing with spurs. Leg motion, without aggression, is essentially all it should ever be used for. Calves only. 

I'll emphasize it, yet again: This is the difference between a pushy style horse and a free running horse.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I guess it depends on the definition of "leg flapping".

If leg flapping is a reminder to the horse that says to him that he ignored my cues and he better pay attention or he is going to get an even bigger reminder, then I have no issue. I use it when backing or helping the stop or just ignoring my leg. But not like the picture posted by beau...yikes. 
For example, if my horse is being lazy in backing and isn't picking his shoulders up and giving an effort I will lightly flap my legs or slap him with the side of my stirrup. If he ignores that a spur is coming. That is my version of the leg flap.

But if it is the barrel racer-full on- going to kick your boots and spurs off- flap, no. (and yes, I have seen girls actually flap so hard their boots and spurs came off)
There is nothing wrong with a kick but the full on flapping so hard that their butts can't even stay in the saddle, kick the wind out of your horse leg flapping is unacceptable.
I well timed smack with a stick or over-under will create better results in that situation(to stretch out on the way home or in between barrels) than a harpooning spur to the ribs. A spur like that causes a horse to compact not stretch.


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

You "can" teach some horses to run faster...but, if it was the best way to get a horse to always run faster, then wouldn't ALL jockeys(since everyone always likes to say...look at jockeys, they NEVER kick/flap/whatever...) NEVER carry a whip to get their highly trained racehorse to run faster? It seems, that in most cases, horses usually respond better with some "motivation" to run...like a whip, leg kicking/flapping/the rope when roping, over-under, etc. 

Everyone likes to claim a jockey's seat is the best "running" seat, well, how many jockeys can ride out a bucking/balking horse, or one that suddenly stops, or even one that takes a quick jump to the side, or one that stops turns around a barrel and then bursts into a full gallop...not many, if any can stay on...ever see a jockey stop a horse quickly? it's because with the positon they ride in they can't, or they would flip over the horses neck...it happens all the time when a running horse slows quickly.

To compare a jockey seat to any rodeo even seat it very wrong indeed...I don't flap when roping/riding, but i do give a good "kick" with my calf and lower leg on occasion. 

That said, some of the "flapping" and bouncing around is way overboard.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

When you are flapping hard enough that you are levitating above the saddle, it is slamming the horse in the back when you come down, which will throw them off balance and in the end, slow them down, not speed them up. Not to mention, what about when you are legs straight out, butt half a foot off the saddle and the horse decides to spook, or any other unanticipated movement? Not a very secure seat when you aren't even touching the saddle, and you WILL take a dive. Correlation between rubber banding feet into stirrups and that crazy flapping? Well, yeah, because flapping that hard and keeping your stirrups is a nearly impossible feat. So basically, I'm saying kicking yes, a little flapping in a controlled way, okay maybe. But that god-awful plane taking off, little kid in a bouncy house flapping? No way.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

ropinbiker said:


> You "can" teach some horses to run faster...but, if it was the best way to get a horse to always run faster, then wouldn't ALL jockeys(since everyone always likes to say...look at jockeys, they NEVER kick/flap/whatever...) NEVER carry a whip to get their highly trained racehorse to run faster? It seems, that in most cases, horses usually respond better with some "motivation" to run...like a whip, leg kicking/flapping/the rope when roping, over-under, etc.
> 
> Everyone likes to claim a jockey's seat is the best "running" seat, well, how many jockeys can ride out a bucking/balking horse, or one that suddenly stops, or even one that takes a quick jump to the side, or one that stops turns around a barrel and then bursts into a full gallop...not many, if any can stay on...ever see a jockey stop a horse quickly? it's because with the positon they ride in they can't, or they would flip over the horses neck...it happens all the time when a running horse slows quickly.
> 
> ...


A jockeys position may be the best running seat. Emphasis on *running*. They don't need that position for bucking or hard stopping, its like apples and oranges. :wink:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ropinbiker (Aug 3, 2012)

my point exactly...you can't compare or use a jockey seat as an "example" of what to do during a rodeo event.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

IMHO, there's a huge difference in "encouraging" and "flapping".

A lot of the better barrel racers will "encourage" their horses by bumping with every stride. Some horses might need that, others don't. (Note that I say _bumping_, not kicking)

I agree though that if the girls legs are flapping so far that she can't keep her butt in the saddle without hanging on to the horn, then she's 9 miles of wrong.

Every time I see a rider riding like the one that Beau posted or like one of these, I just keep wishing for the horse to give a big old buck and launch them like the ducks they're trying to be.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I'm not even sure my body can DO that ^^^ 
Unless... its probably happened if I'm about to get bucked off and its that "oh sh**" moment when you realize you are too far out of the saddle to save yourself lol


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

ZOMG!!! People actually go that far??? Wouldn't an over and under be more useful.....oh that's right they'd have to let go of the horn to do that....right:wink:


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I dunno...
When Squiggy starts running a pattern I have a feeling I want as much of my seat in contact with her as possible because roughout might save my life lol yay for free runners


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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

What a testimony to those horses good nature though! How forgiving!

I've got the most "mare-ish" gelding to ever exist as if I tried anything like that....well, id be posting from a hospital bed. 

In my experience, quirts and over unders work far better than flapping like that. I might give a stirrup flap or two, leaving the third, but I never kick or push myself off balance at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

smrobs said:


> ...Every time I see a rider riding like the one that Beau posted or like one of these, I just keep wishing for the horse to give a big old buck and launch them like the ducks they're trying to be.


smrobs, the male in me wants to crawl under the bed and hide when I see those pictures. What comes up must come down. I'm 55 with NO desire for any more kids, but still...:shock: :shock: :shock:

I think I'll go dig out an 'athletic supporter', curl up into a fetal position on my chair and think about practicing my 'half-seat' until the bad images go away! With as much time as I spend surfing the net, I need one of these:








​


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Smrobs, that encouraging is exactly what I'm talking about, you just explained it better I think. I don't think I'm even capable of kicking or flapping that hard if I tried...The reiner in me still says "Get that butt down!"


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

Call me silly but I love having my a$$ IN the saddle, not above it.:lol:
I couldn't do like in the pictures on a bet.

I've never barrel raced and probably never will. However I've always made strides to make everything I do on a horse look as effortless as possible. I know every horse is different but that looks way more counter productive than just a good balanced seat and proper leg use. I think some of that extreme leg stuff may be just for the "show". Just like flashy chaps for bronc and bull riders. JMHO


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

There are definitely people that kick and whip for show.

It's easy to get caught up in the game too, get over excited, and make big moves you didn't mean to make. I, personally, try to only use the whip for the run home or if my horse shuts down on me...But some girls will whip til the cows come home in hopes of getting an intense looking picture or attention.


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