# A Question For English Riders - Back Up?



## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

So I notice that when my trainer dies a fun show between her students (Which happened to be today) and I compet English instead of western, I get some nasty looks when I back up fast. Like, I had Jester out there today and he flat out runs backwards. I was English and I loped a few circles, stopped and made him back up the standard distance for a Reiner. I know it was an English show, but that doesn't make much differance to me. Doesn't mean I can't practice. 

I actually had someone come up with her gelding next to me and ask rather rudely why I woul make my horse back up like that. I told them he was a Reiner and they just looked at me like I was abusing him or something. I was doing some fun dressage classes and there was a rein back I had to do so when I asked for the rein back he ran backwards.... Web I got out of the arena I had another rider approach me again and ask me about it....She told me that he wasn't a car and shouldn't be made back up like that.

I mean, seriously. My trainer is primarily western. It's not like these people have never seen a horse back up before. 

Someone told me that English riders use backing up as a punishment, or that they aren't traine to back up at all. 

Elaboration would be nice 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

I've never ever been told backing up is a punishment. I could use any movement any gait as a punishment on a horse by simply making them do something they want to do. Backing up is a useful skill which every horse should have. Heck, even in our dressage tests now in Australia we have a rein back. Of course, it isn't meant to be like a reiner's, more of a smooth back up without resistance.

Personally, I wouldn't listen to anyone who didn't train their horses to back up.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

It makes no sense that they'd say that!

I have made every horse I've ridden back up. In the show I am going to, I am REQUIRED to back my horse. It's only 2-3 steps, but it's still backing. Of course, I ride gaited, but it's like that for the straight-gaited horses, too.


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## Count Jackula (Aug 28, 2009)

SorrelHorse said:


> Someone told me that English riders use backing up as a punishment, or that they aren't traine to back up at all.
> 
> Elaboration would be nice
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's nonsense, since reinback appears in both British Dressage and British Driving Society dressage tests! :shock::lol:


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Okay, so it must just be a few ignorant people. Thanks for the elaboration guys.....Was a little confused. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

Backing up is the worst punshiment ever. It will eventually led to rearing.
but backing up is a good thing to know I always like to have a little backing up in a ride only a few steps ans slowly lol it was probably because you did it at speed


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## drafts4ever (Sep 1, 2009)

Every horse needs to know how to back up. I wasn't taught that it was punishment of any kind. I was taught it could be used a correction for a failed whoa. I ride english and when Sampson or Caleigh don't whoa when I want it I back them to where I said Whoa, have them stand for a second or two and then walk on. It's gentle and normally 3-5 steps back. It's not fast at all like your reiner, partly...erm...mostly because my giants backing up fast would probably be disastrous. 
In play days I've gone to I've been told to back up a few steps and very gentle massaging the reins type of backing. Normally the judge asks at line up for a few steps back. Backing up isn't a punishment, it's a skill needed and if used as anything else possibly a light correction. 

A couple personal examples if you're interested at all. 
If Sampson walks out over my shoulder I stop and back him up a few steps to where he should be, it's a learning process for him...you walk with me not in front of me. 
It also helps a horse work under itself in some situations. If Caleigh is stepping out too far and tripping over herself I know I need to re-adjust myself and in that process I back her up a few steps and start over. It seems to remind her where the rest of her body is and she feels a bit more together when we start up again. 


hope that helped. 
I wonder why those people were so "offended"?


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## flamingauburnmustang (Dec 25, 2008)

To me, backing up is a very important thing to know. Say for instance when opening and closing a gate while mounted. Unless you are up for alot of turning around and around or risk getting off your horse while on an outride (like near roads) and he may run away or freak out. :???:

Also, as meantioned by the others, backing up is used in some competitions. So those people who confronted you about backing up are talking nonsense. :wink:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

RedTree said:


> Backing up is the worst punshiment ever. It will eventually led to rearing.
> but backing up is a good thing to know I always like to have a little backing up in a ride only a few steps ans slowly lol it was probably because you did it at speed


 
Sorry Redtree, I have to disagree. First, there are MANY worse "punishments" than asking a horse to back up. I would also say that any well trained horse should be able to back up some. How much, how fast, etc, depends upon the discipline. Trail classes often have horses backing up while turning through an obstacle, English riders typically have to back up 3 steps at the end of a class, command classes usually ask for back up, Western pleasure also asks for it and the ultimate is the reiners-they are taught to back up at lightening speed. Just how they are trained and part of how they are judged. If done correctly, in the vast majority of horses it will not cause rearing. In fact, I have never seen that happen. You just have to know how to train them. Certainly, if you pull up rather than back they may be more apt to rear. But *to say that backing causes rearing is just plain wrong!*

OP-in my experience, in English classes the horses typically are asked to back 3 steps slowly. As a reiner you back fast. They are jealous! haha!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

SorrelHorse said:


> So I notice that when my trainer dies a fun show between her students (Which happened to be today) and I compet English instead of western, I get some nasty looks when I back up fast. Like, I had Jester out there today and he flat out runs backwards. I was English and I loped a few circles, stopped and made him back up the standard distance for a Reiner. I know it was an English show, but that doesn't make much differance to me. Doesn't mean I can't practice.


What they are referring to is the speed of the back up. In English you back up in a measured deliberate manner...never as a running step.



> I actually had someone come up with her gelding next to me and ask rather rudely why I woul make my horse back up like that. I told them he was a Reiner and they just looked at me like I was abusing him or something. I was doing some fun dressage classes and there was a rein back I had to do so when I asked for the rein back he ran backwards.... Web I got out of the arena I had another rider approach me again and ask me about it....She told me that he wasn't a car and shouldn't be made back up like that.


Fully agree with what the person said about the car analogy. The problem with the perception of a horse running backward is that it may appear that the horse is backing away from the bit and the assumption is then that the rider is being harsh with the bit making the horse run backward instead of deliberately backing. 



> I mean, seriously. My trainer is primarily western. It's not like these people have never seen a horse back up before.


Just as in western pleasure and HUS done with the same judges and both classes looking virtually the same is something we should no be doing, we should not just because your trainer is western, ride all classes (even the English ones) in the same manner. There are specific requirements for each discipline and you can't jog or lope in dressage just as you can't be doing passage in western. So you can't do a running back up in a dressage or any English class. 



> Someone told me that English riders use backing up as a punishment, or that they aren't traine to back up at all.
> 
> Elaboration would be nice
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are some very ignorant riders that will use a back up as punishment but the good ones will use it to reset the horse's mind as a correction ( never more than a few steps though). Other will use it to strengthen the hind quarters and set the horse more on the rear legs to set them up for something that will be asked for. 

There are various other reasons but punishment is not what a god rider will use the back up for.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Okay, that makes more sense. I still wonder why they ony choose now to say something. I take lessons with most of these kids even if I'm tsing western and mytraiber has me doing stops, spins, rollbacks, the whole nine yards. Including the backup. Odd, but whatever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

A back up can be used to get a heavy horse to quit leaning on your hands as much, not really as a punishment, but it is odd that if they knew you did those sort of back ups normally that they would chose to just now say something. But if you are riding in an English class and they want you to back, it's slow measured steps, not flying backwards. Even if you are training Western, it's good to be able to control the speed of the backup whichever way you want it.


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## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

Redtree, backing doesn't lead to rearing, resistance leads to rearing.
Will your horse do WHAT you ASK, WHEN you ask, forward, backward, left or right? Either horse does or doesn't and that's where you are in your training stage.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Yeah....I was just there to play though. His posture for the back was perfect he just did it really fast. I wasn't about to correct it though, because in the reining arena he gets high marks for his backing ^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

The thing is - Backwards is not a natural direction for horses. Wild horses back up rarely, if ever. So backing up is difficult and artificial - Not necessarily a punishment, but not something a horse 'enjoys' doing.

I can set the pace I want my horses to back up. They can go slow and deliberate, or with a bit more leg and maybe a cluck, they can scoot their butt back pretty quick.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

From my experience a reiner will back up quicker and is more apt to back up then an english horse. An english horse will do it but it is more composed/slow then a reiner- they are ready to act on a dime per say... hope that helps. One is not better then the other just the different ways of training.


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## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

The theory that backing isn't natural for horses is just that, a theory. It gets a lot of press these days, but horses not only back out loose, there are a good many horses that employ the technique to get out of doing what their person says and to get away from other horses in a herd when blocked. Some horses are go forward horses and some prefer backward. How the horse's body is and if horse has a calm mind during any maneuver is more important.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ I have never seen any horse take more than one or two steps backward when loose. Horses are flight animals - The first instinct is to flee. Backwards is slow, so not useful for fleeing. They will usually flee forward, or spin/turn and then flee forwards.

Many horses use it to get out of work because they have learned it as an evasion. Many horses have also learned to attack first, flee later, which goes completely against their nature. Things we have influenced can hardly be called natural.


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## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

I have a herd and I've seen them run backward while kicking with both hind legs when they're really annoyed with another herd member. If they flee in the wild it's also because they can. Plenty of open space. Regardless of how they learn it, they still are very capable backers.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ I wouldn't really compare attempting to double barrel another horse to backing up.

I never mentioned that they aren't capable - It is a skill that has to be learnt. You can get on a horse with no training and ask it to go forward, and generally, you can do it pretty easily, and fast. But backing isn't as instinctive, and it takes a bit of understanding on our part and good communication to get a good back up happening.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

Ive seen a lot of horses back up in the feild, even untrained/never touched ones. 

They robably gave you those looks because it was a dressage show, if you go to a dressage show, you are expected to do dressage, if you go to a jumping show you ar expected to jump, if you go to a reiner show you are expected to rein. You should actually be able to make your horse back u slow, or fast. for training purposes.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ More than one or two steps? In what situation?


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

Ive seen them when they are all sunbathing in the narrow part of the feild ive seen one back out about 5-7 steps in a relaxed way if they dont want to fuss about budging through the horses higher on the pecking order. (ive seen them do this many times) 
or when one horse pins his ears at the other, ive seen it back up 5-7 steps to get away. ive seen them do this not as often, but quite a bit anyway.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I can understand that, however, I still don't know why they waited until now to make a big deal over it. All of them
know me. Well, not many of the English riders really get along with me but whatever ha ha 

And on the backin up subject, think of it as us backing up. We can and will run backwards or back up slowly, but there 
really isn't a reason for us to do it. I've seen my horses back up to get out of the blackberry bushes (they eat the berries) or back up to the fence to scrath their rump, and running backwards to double barrel a horse is still running backwards. They just end it by making some poor horse sorry about bothering them. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebred11 (Mar 27, 2014)

I am a mostly english rider(I also ride some western) and I think a horse that would move that quickly for you if great. Your horse is being so obedient and you look cool, the person fighting their horse to back up is the one that needs to be talked to. I think it is great and I have never used it to punish.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Is it possible they thought you were showing off?

Or perhaps they take the show seriously, even if it's "just for fun."


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

Guys this thread is four years old.


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