# Help horse pulls through reins!!



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Well you put this question in the NH section so I would just talk to him.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

Spyder said:


> Well you put this question in the NH section so I would just talk to him.


*thud* :lol:


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Spyder said:


> Well you put this question in the NH section so I would just talk to him.


:lol::lol::lol:

Welcome to the forum, cpc417!

Firstly, I'd say only ride in an arena or roundpen for now. No brakes are no fun out in the open. Also, only walk until you have solid brakes there, and then move up to the trot. Does he stop willingly on the ground? If not, start there, he needs to know that anyway as a matter of good manners, and it will help him under saddle.

On foot, lead him forward on a loose lead, and stop your feet and say "whoa." I use long vowels and a low tone of voice. Slowing gait and stopping get low slow words, and speeding up get quicker, slightly higher pitched words. If he chooses to walk past you, take the tail of your lead and move him faster, disengaging his hindquarters and making life generally harder for not stopping. When you have his attention, ask him to stop again. Repeat until he stops. Practice until he stops with you the first time, every time, with no pressure on the lead. Try stopping from a trot in hand, following the same progression. He should be able to do the same at a walk as at a trot in hand.

Under saddle, I'd do the same kind of thing. Let him walk forward on a loose rein, and allow him to walk with your seat (no pumping him faster, no "blocking," just ride the walk). When you're ready, stop the motion of your seat and say whoa, gently squeezing the reins, in that order. The word should get his attention if you've done your homework on the ground, but he'll probably walk through you anyway. Pick up on one rein halfway down its length and slowly and smoothly bring your hand to your hip. The care with which this is done is imperative. Pulling one rein takes away his ability to lean on you and the bit, but it does of balance him. NEVER do the one rein stop at a dead run (i.e. a runaway situation). When he stops his feet, immediately release the rein and praise him. Be sure that the only time you touch the bit is when you want a stop or a downward transition. I see a lot of horses with no brakes because the rider is always in their mouth: the pressure starts becoming meaningless. Ideally, if you've progressed from seat to voice to rein in your cue, he should start to stop without any more than the seat cue.

Backing up can help, too, on the ground and under saddle. The better he backs up, the better he'll do most everything else.

I really advise at least taking riding lessons with this horse, if not pro training, if you aren't already. A response from someone online can only go so far. Someone knowledgeable should be there in person if you don't have experience dealing with this kind of problem; pro help can be invaluable, especially with the timing and feel needed to build a reliable stop on a horse.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

see saw on the reins. it will bring his head down and make him concentrate. if he tries to jerk the reins then jerk back he has to learn that he must obey the bit. word of advice dont pull back with both reins because its easy for them to put their head up and avoid the bit and then they can do whatever they want. but seesawing brings their head down and controls their momentum.
see sawing will soften his mouth and get his attention. then if he wont stop for verbal commands you can do a one rein stop.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Comments like the first one are unnecessary. Sheesh.

Your reins should never be used for stopping. First of all, are you familiar with a one rein stop?


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## cpc417 (Feb 4, 2010)

Yes on the one rein stop. He has good ground manners but hates and I mean hates being away from our other horse. What do you mean see saw on the reins?


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## cpc417 (Feb 4, 2010)

WHat do you mean see saw on the reins?


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Basically pull back and forth on the reins, one at a time....this will really make your horse dull, plus why would you want to do that with a piece of metal in the horse's mouth?? Ouch.

What kind of bit do you ride in? Is it single jointed or double jointed? Or is it a curb bit?


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Roperchick said:


> see saw on the reins. it will bring his head down and make him concentrate. if he tries to jerk the reins then jerk back he has to learn that he must obey the bit. word of advice dont pull back with both reins because its easy for them to put their head up and avoid the bit and then they can do whatever they want. but seesawing brings their head down and controls their momentum.
> see sawing will soften his mouth and get his attention. then if he wont stop for verbal commands you can do a one rein stop.


I really wouldn't do the see-sawing. The _only_ time I would ever consider doing that would be if it was either get the horse stopped or risk serious injury to one or both of us. Basically, you would be pulling one rein at a time fairly quickly, jiggling the bit in his mouth. Not pleasant, and potentially downright painful depending on the bit. Also, it can teach the horse to evade the bit and make life harder down the road if you choose to pursue any degree of contact or collection. Far better off to ride seat into legs into hands; ride from the back of the horse forward. I'd look into a pro trainer/instructor to help long before you try the see-sawing to "train" him to stop.

*Its a lot more than kick to go, pull to stop.* Kicking and pulling may get the job done, but it tends not to be pretty, sometimes unreliable, it can be hard to fix and refine as you and the horse progress if that's all he and you are familiar with.

Oops! Sorry, Spirit, looks like we posted at the same time.


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## Jillyann (Mar 31, 2009)

Spyder said:


> Well you put this question in the NH section so I would just talk to him.




If you dont have anything nice to say, you might as well not say anything. PLEASE.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

^^ I second that


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Jillyann said:


> If you dont have anything nice to say, you might as well not say anything. PLEASE.


 
And how do you know it isn't nice.

Horse whispering is a part of NH.............at least the last I read.


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## cpc417 (Feb 4, 2010)

thank you all. He is a great horse I think I otta spend more time with him'


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Spyder said:


> And how do you know it isn't nice.
> 
> Horse whispering is a part of NH.............at least the last I read.


I thought your comment was funny and I totally agree with it.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Roperchick said:


> see saw on the reins. it will bring his head down and make him concentrate. if he tries to jerk the reins then jerk back he has to learn that he must obey the bit. word of advice dont pull back with both reins because its easy for them to put their head up and avoid the bit and then they can do whatever they want. but seesawing brings their head down and controls their momentum.
> see sawing will soften his mouth and get his attention. then if he wont stop for verbal commands you can do a one rein stop.


 
^^^This is a good way to get your horse totally running away with you. See-sawing and jerking on the reins will most certainly NOT get your horse softer. This has to be in the top 5 worst peices of advice ever posted on this forum.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I snort/giggled when you posted that spyder, hehe... I thought it was cute, no need to get your panties in a twist guys...

to the OP, maybe you could get him to yield his hind quarters when you try to stop him, disengage his forward movement...


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> ^^^This is a good way to get your horse totally running away with you. See-sawing and jerking on the reins will most certainly NOT get your horse softer. This has to be in the top 5 worst peices of advice ever posted on this forum.


You know whats SO sad.....one of the trainers at my barn suggested doing this to a group of advanced jumpers to get their horses warmed up (I can't remember how she phrased it though) and I immediately thought of you!!

One of the reasons I'm glad I don't ride english 

/hijack over


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## Jillyann (Mar 31, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> You know whats SO sad.....one of the trainers at my barn suggested doing this to a group of advanced jumpers to get their horses warmed up (I can't remember how she phrased it though) and I immediately thought of you!!
> 
> One of the reasons I'm glad I don't ride english
> 
> /hijack over



Its not only for english. I see western rider do this ALL the time to get there horses to back up. I myself do it when I am riding my mare with a halter and lead, because she just responds to it much better.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Jillyann said:


> I myself do it when I am riding my mare with a halter and lead, because she just responds to it much better.


 
Opps. Say goodbye for any natural horsemanship in this case then.

A GOOD horseman will NVER need to resort to "roughshod" antics.

People that do this are looking for quick short cut ways to dominate the horse without any thought about the horse al all. The people that do this have not taken the time to understand cause and effect and quick fixes tend to be just that...QUICK but not permanent fixes.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

cpc417 said:


> How do I break him of both habits?


The answer is: YOU don't.

He's 20. How old are you? How much experience with retraining horses do you have?

No need to answer the questions. The fact you've asked your original question is answer enough.

I suggest you ride him in a small enclosed area near or with his buddy and simply enjoy the fact he lets you on his back at all.

And the whole 'see-saw' advice needs to be thrown out the window, stomped on, and buried six feet under because if you use it, that's where you'll end up.


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## Jillyann (Mar 31, 2009)

Spyder said:


> Opps. Say goodbye for any natural horsemanship in this case then.
> 
> A GOOD horseman will NVER need to resort to "roughshod" antics.
> 
> People that do this are looking for quick short cut ways to dominate the horse without any thought about the horse al all. The people that do this have not taken the time to understand cause and effect and quick fixes tend to be just that...QUICK but not permanent fixes.



Yeah, youre totally right. You know everything about me and my horse!!!


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## cpc417 (Feb 4, 2010)

well that was a sharp response to someone looking for help. I guess we all cant be starting to learn about our horses. I guess you were just blessed knowing everything without haveing to LEARN...


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## cpc417 (Feb 4, 2010)

I have determind that see saw is out. I have been reading a couple of books by John Lyons.. Using his techniques are awsome and he has in the short time Ive seen big improvements.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Well if you get sent to the hospital with a broken neck, don't blame the horse.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

cpc417 said:


> well that was a sharp response to someone looking for help. I guess we all cant be starting to learn about our horses. I guess you were just blessed knowing everything without haveing to LEARN...


Would you prefer to be dead, or crippled for life? This isn't a game. These are large animals with free will, capable of doing intentional or unintentional great damage to themselves and others.

I started the right way...with a well-respected and successful mentor. Did a two year apprenticeship with them and passed an elaborate test to become a licensed trainer. I kept my mouth shut, watched, then researched and studied at every opportunity. I continue to watch, research and study, though admittedly the mouth opens far more often now because I've got something to say based on a lot of experience and knowledge.

You asked a question and I gave you the best possible answer from my 25yrs of experience. If you want to learn to swim, you don't jump into the ocean, you start in a kiddie pool with water wings and work your way up.

If you aren't in a position to learn under better circumstances, then you're best to wait until you are. Since you're unlikely to listen to that, I've told you how to stay alive and be as safe as this situation allows for.


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## cpc417 (Feb 4, 2010)

no this latest answer was one of respect for me and the animal. I am willing to put in the time. I need to learn where to start. You stated you did apprenticship. Then that is what I will look for in my area. It is not that I am unwilling just new. You Too started somewhere that is all I am looking for.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I think there have been several unneccesary posts....ones that are just inviting conflict.....


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> I think there have been several unneccesary posts....ones that are just inviting conflict.....


And this one helped, how?


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Just pointing things out....I don't think the unneccesary posts have helped, either


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Spirithorse said:


> Just pointing things out....I don't think the unneccesary posts have helped, either


 
Like this post you just made?

No one posted on this thread for 3 days so your post was to do what...stir pots?


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Not in the least Spyder. Not in the least.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> Just pointing things out....I don't think the unneccesary posts have helped, either


And this one was necessary?


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I'm not going to banter back and forth with you...it's unnecessary


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> I'm not going to banter back and forth with you...it's unnecessary


Cool, let me know when you'll actually do what you say you're going to do.

It's comical, frankly, for people to point out certain posts as being this or that, and those people unable to see that by posting such a thing, that they are doing exactly that which they are complaining about other's doing.


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## cpc417 (Feb 4, 2010)

Well here is an update.. I have been working with my horse and I believe the bit he was on was way to strong for him. I worked on gentler hands, using less bit and more cue spots. and he has not fought through the bit in a week staight. Ive worked with him away from the other horse and he seems to be getting over the "buddy" system....Ohhh John Lyons books and DVDs helped ALOT


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