# Lame Mare, Coronary Band Abscess, could it be a farrier problem?????



## clasymover (Dec 28, 2008)

Most lameness issues are farrier problems. Here's what I see: Your horse has incapsulated thrush in the frog which is causing heel pain and too long heels as the horse is trying to elevate off of the frog to alleviate the pain in the frog and is buckling forward like a woman in too high of heels falling on her face. This thrush could also be the root of your swelling at the back of the coronary band and as it tries to heal on its own is causing the abcessing which typically comes out at the exact spot you indicate. Too high heels can cause coffin bone rotation if it is not corrected. You must heal the thrush and get the heels down to correct this, it is NOT life threatening! This illustration you have doesn't show what the bars are and is actually showing a too high heel which is rotating the coffin bone. The coffin bone should be ground parallel. Looking at the bottom of your horse's foot the bars are not trimmed which is causing flares that are stretching the laminae. The sole has not been exfoliated and the walls are most likely too long also which is causing periferal loading stretching the laminae all around the foot. When the walls are too long it's like pulling your fingernails back with every step the horse takes. Can you post a photo of the hoof from the side and front as well? I would recommend you go to www.swedishhoofschool.com and take time doing some research there.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Velvetgrace -- can you get your own horse's photos? How long is too long in the toes? Was it an abcess in the back or an injury? Where on the coronary band is the swelling? Is there heat in her leg? hoof? Pics would help a lot. How is her other front foot? How are her back? How long have you dealt with this farrier? How long after the trim did you notice lameness?


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## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

Clasymover, how do you figure all that when the picture is not of her horse?

Is she still swollen after the abscess burst? Is there a strong digital pulse? Is the farrier due out again? Can you get them out to ensure it's open and draining? 

I would continue to soak a hoof for a week after it burst, there's always the chance of dirt getting into the open wound. It's not unusual for an abscess to take weeks to completely heal. We went through this all summer with one our geldings. 

A picture of her hoof would sure help.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

I will get a picture posted soon, a day or two, just please wait and I will get it.


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## LoveMyFinny (Dec 5, 2008)

I would continue soaking, maybe wrap with icthamol to continue drawing the abscess out. I do not think it was your farrier's fault. Abscesses happen, they are not rare, or life threatening. Out of all of them I have seen and dealt with, the farrier was never blamed. If your farrier is not doing a good job, or you don't like the way your horse is being trimmed, then I would look for another one. Abscesses can form for many different reasons, but I wouldn't think leaving her toe a bit long would be one of them. Good luck with your mare and I hope she starts to feel better soon.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LoveMyFinny said:


> I do not think it was your farrier's fault. Abscesses happen, they are not rare, or life threatening. Out of all of them I have seen and dealt with, the farrier was never blamed. If your farrier is not doing a good job, or you don't like the way your horse is being trimmed, then I would look for another one. Abscesses can form for many different reasons, but I wouldn't think leaving her toe a bit long would be one of them.


I agree with this, it was not necessarity the farriers fault. She could have had a stone bruise that became an abcess or sometimes, a very small rock with get imbedded in the white line and work its way up into the hoof causing an abcess. It also could have been thrush, but I am not experienced with that and don't know. However, if you are unsatisfied with how he trims her, then deff look elsewhere but I don't think it was his fault. Just keep it clean and it will clear up.


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## clasymover (Dec 28, 2008)

Missed the part about the photo not being of her horse. That's what's wrong the hoof that the photo is of though. Will look forward to seeing pix of her horse's foot.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

_Abscesses can form for many different reasons, but I wouldn't think leaving her toe a bit long would be one of them._

Yes they do happen for many different reasons but actually long toes can as they cause stress on the hoof wall at the toe with every step.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

Notice in the pictures that it is the white hoof where we had the problem. In some pictures you will notice a red circle that is the point where the abcess had busted. 

In some pictures you will also notice that the leg is buckled over at the ankle... well that is how the mare was trying to relieve pressure off the heal.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

I was trying to take these pictures by myself holding a camera in one hand the hoof in the other.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

Here is some more information in detail

I purchased this mare in August. She had front shoes on. We had the shoes removed around September 15th and feet trimmed. She had not lameness problems in the 5 months that i have had her, except for a small cut on the ankle caused from getting tangled in the barb wire fence in August. She healed quickly from the cut had never missed a beat. 

I had the mare's feet trimmed a second time approx. November 25th from the same farrier that had previous trimmed her feet before. We had no soundness problems until approx. December 17th. The mare was treated as if she had a sprained foot and she did not improve. On Dec. 23rd, while trying to be loaded on a trailer to see a vet the heel of the hoof had busted and crud was oozing out. Again the mare was treated differently to treat an infection. Over 5 days of treatment, we notice conciderable improvement. It has been 4 days since the last treatment and again she is improving. From time to time we will see the mare trying to keep pressure off the heel or move with a gimp in her stride. Other times she will seem to act normal with out any problems at all. 

The mare is still tender at the spot where the abcess had busted. I checked her today and she would flinch at pressure being put on the area by my thumb. 

The only reason why I am asking if it is a farrier problem is because, in the two times that he had trimmed her feet, looked like he left them a little long. Even 4 weeks later, I had a friend mentioned that she needed her feet trimmed again.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

IMO, those hooves are in bad shape. They are too long in the toe. I can see major flaring. If this is what they look like a few weeks after trimming then you need to change trimmers or do them yourself.. You will have more abscesses until they are trimmed correctly.. Please look at this site to see how barefoot hooves should look.


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## LoveMyFinny (Dec 5, 2008)

I agree. Her feet look awful, I would consider looking into other farriers because there is way too much toe on that mare. It doesn't sound like you have had her too long, and it does take time to get feet back in shape. Get your farrier, or a new one, to work with her, maybe every 6 weeks to get that toe backed up. If you look at her foot from the side, there should be no dish from the coronary band to the bottom, it should be the same angle. I would also look into some hoof supplements to help it grow out healthy. Good luck!


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

If I'm reading this correctly, you've had her five months and trimmed her hooves twice. I'd think that you'd want to have the farrier out at least every six weeks or so, especially since you recently changed from shoes to being unshod. When I look at her feet, it makes me hurt. They look way too long and flared as Appyt mentioned. I'd also want to make sure that those hooves are being trimmed in such a manner that those chips and cracks don't worsen. Can you get a recommendation for a good farrier? 

If her feet hurt to the touch you can just about bet there's still infection or some swelling in there.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Another agreement here -- get her feet properly looked after. Toes are way too long, flaring, heels are forward. No wonder she is sore. Poor girl. I hope you can help her.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with everyone else, I didn't think it would be that bad from the original post. After seeing her hooves, I think it probably is the general hoof care she has gotten. I am not blaming you but I would have a farrier out at least every 6 weeks to try to get the toe shortened up and the heel straightened out. It almost looks like she has had VERY overgrown hooves in her recent history and they are just now beginning to grow properly. That website that Appyt posted is great.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

I do apperciate all of the comments. I am looking into getting another farrier out and calling around for reccomendations.

I really have good intentions to keep this mare up to date on everything and to provide the best care as possible. Really I did not expect to see this much toe left on the hoof to begin with, and after the second trimming from this farrier I have realy decided that it is time for a change. 

I will keep yall posted.


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## tazassape (Oct 8, 2008)

Some hoof supplements wouldn't hurt either, they look pretty dry.


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## clasymover (Dec 28, 2008)

After looking at these photos I still stand by my original post.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

Here are pictures of the mare's feet after a different farrier trimmed them. This was done, yesterday. After observing the mare walking around she is still favoring that right front leg (white foot) a little, but not as much as she was two weeks ago. The one photo that has the red circle shows the spot where it opened up an abcess. By looking at these photos, I think I have noticed that we finally got that heel up off the ground and things pointing in the right direction. 

The mare is out on pasture, as there is no stalls to keep up horses. Her pasture mate is the little red heifer that is shown in my avatar. 

** IS there any improvement? IS this what a "Barefoot" trim is supposed to look like? Do you think that it will take time to actually get her back to normal?


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

That looks much better. I bet she is way more comfortable than she was before the trim.. She may be tender on the abscessed hoof off and on. Sometimes they reoccur. I'd like to see some sole shots as well as some from ground level (sides and front) with her on a solid surface, like cement. While they look good from the angle your pics show, I can't really judge from these pics. But, they do look much better with those long toes backed up..


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree with appyt. They look 1000% better. I would stay with that farrier and hopefully, you will not have any more problems with lameness. She will probably favor that foot for a couple more weeks and it is entirely possible that it could relapse. Just keep an eye on her. She'll do great.


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## clasymover (Dec 28, 2008)

Yes, they do look a ton better but please post some pix of the sole, that's the hoof's map.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Yes, definite improvement. She's got to be a whole lot more comfortable now. Her feet aren't "normal" yet for sure, but it'll take a while and many trims for her to get there. I too would be interested in better shots.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

I have a couple more photos, but they are not available until I get my own computer to work properly. I hope to get them posted later this week.


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## barefoothooves (Sep 6, 2007)

Much, much better, but the heels need to come DOWN, not up. And the quarters are still too long, but it's a process. Can't do it all at once!!


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## LoveMyFinny (Dec 5, 2008)

Much better, she still needs some work, but you don't want to take everything off at once. I would stick with this farrier and she will have her feet straightened out in no time.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

Photos taken with cell phone. However, they are not too bad. Sorry for the number of pictures, I was trying to get what was requested. The main hoof that had the problem is the white hoof (front right) that is shown in the pictures.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Looks like a pretty good set up trim to me. I like the bevel be sure to have this trimmer back often to continue to stay on top of the trim. I do think a bit more wall needs to come off the outside quarter area. I see flare there and it appears to be out of balance in the pic. Might be the pic of course.. 

I am not surprised she is still having intermittent lameness. Abscesses will build, break open and drain then they will do it again if not all the junk comes out. Also the hoof is still under stress due to the damage that is being addressed now. All in all I think this trimmer is going to help your horse to regain her hoof health. It just takes time.. The hoof wall has to grow out, it cannot reconnect where the damage currently is, the flaring at the toe.


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## zanytactics (Sep 8, 2007)

They look much better then before but I agree there is still some work to be done. In the last photo shows that the horse has encapsulated thrush, which is thrush inside the hoof, not outside. That is why she has the "caves" on the back side of her heels and why the heels are higher then they should be.

.. Also, if you look down at the foot the left side that has the flar, is because of the direction the bar is growing. That bar is pushing the hoof wall out, which gives you your flar, as seen in the photo. Now I would working on getting rid of the thrush and continuing on with the new trimmer.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

What could I do to help heal this encapsulated thrush? The mare is not kept in a stall she is out on pasture 24/7 rain, shine, or snow. It has been very dry lately.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Zanytactics -- where do you see the encapsulated thrush? I see still work to be done, but what points out the thrush? This interests me.

Velvetgrace -- better pics! She's on her way... I agree with what others have said. Stay with this trimmer. Her heels are still forward and her quarters are long as well as her toes a bit, but this is a HUGE improvement and you can only do so much at a time. Congrats on a step forward here! This will take time, so be patient and keep trimming and watching!


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

northernmama said:


> Zanytactics -- where do you see the encapsulated thrush? I see still work to be done, but what points out the thrush? This interests me.


I was thinking the same thing. From what I understood, thrush was created from a moist environment, dirty bedding from a stall, and/or foul odor comming from the hoof. 

This mare is kept on a large grass/dirt pasture and the enviornment has been fairly dry around here. Even at the water pan, it is dry ground.


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## zanytactics (Sep 8, 2007)

northernmama said:


> Zanytactics -- where do you see the encapsulated thrush? I see still work to be done, but what points out the thrush? This interests me.
> 
> I will try my best to describe as well as possible. A horse such as this one, show signs of thrush, eventhough there is no black smelly stuff to visually see. The way thrush works is it starts on the inside of the hoof. A hoof that is encapsulated with thrush will grow heel (which this horse has a lot of)-to get away from the pain from the thrush. When the heels start growing the horse looses ground pressure with the frog....which is not a good thing. Also the deep caves on the back of the hoof also prove that he has thrush. I will attach the article on how to treat it. It's not hard, and you can leave them turned out. I personally have used colidal Silver in soaking boots. This I have found works the best. After soaking the horse should be trimmed within 3 days, this time frame is important in the ability of dropping the heel. I will try to attach the website where the article is but I'm not that savy as to posting posting photos or other things on here yet.
> 
> ...


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Well, I read that article and it didn't make much sense to me -- in my experience the heels will not come down on their own unless worn down over hard terrain. And the heels won't grow to alleviate pain -- however, the horse may stand differently to alleviate pain and that could reduce/change the amount and pattern of wear. Still though.. interesting thing. I think I'll have to do some searching on this because I don't like how my girls feet look. They had boughts of thrush over the summer and I'm not convinced it is ALL gone even though I can't see anything and it apparently isn't bothering them.

If you do find any other interesting articles, please PM me.

Thanks, ZanyT.


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## somersetfarms (Jan 6, 2009)

I admit that I haven't read all of the replies, but I do agree that your new farrier is on the right track. The horse still needs work, heels need to be lowered and the angle reduced. The bars are a little long and the hoof doesn't quite look balanced yet, but that can be camera angles. 
I would have this new farrier out at least every 4 weeks to work on her for at least a few months, then stretch out to the 6 or 8 weeks.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Velvetgrace... I have done some more reading on thrush and I think I know why ZanyT is going there. It's the deep sulci crevice in the back and the high heels (read her link - I don't agree with it, but still). Personally, I don't think it applies here. You are working on her feet and it will all take time. Keep it up.

BTW, apparently thrush is not caused by a moist environment -- but by poor hoof care (which is what this poor girl suffered before). I read an article that made a lot of sense. It talked about horses that choose to stand in very moist, even muddy areas, but don't get thrush because the hoof is properly cared for and the natural circulation and expansion/contraction keep the hoof clean of bacteria. 

Now I have to revisit what I did wrong last summer because both my girls got thrush, though I didn't let it get away on me.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

I tried to look for the product called "Colloidal Silver" that is mentioned in the article above. However, I have not been able to located any on the internet to purchase... I was trying to find some that is at a vet or livestock supply here in the USA. Any suggestions? or Any Alternatives?


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Uh-huh -- several but my choices are:
Diluted Bleach with Water -- about 50/50 -- only once a day at the most: it's very drying. I usually do it when I first discover the thrust and monitor afterwards. If I don't think I need it, I don't use it. Pour it on the already cleaned frog and sole, hold the foot up for about a minute, then rinse well with just water. 

Everyday, even a couple of times a day, clean the hoof well with water and then apply a topical "cure": -- sugardine or I just read about mixing anti-fungal cream with anti-biotic cream 50/50 and putting that on. I like that. It makes sense. Either way, you have to use q-tips to get it in all the crevices. Be generous. If you can leave it wrapped for an hour or so, it's probably better. I've never had it so bad that I had to wrap and I don't _think_ you do either, but a lot of people do it as a matter of course.

Keep her feet clean and keep up on the trimming. Once her feet get back to shape, she won't be as susceptible to thrush in the first place.

Edited to add:
Many people use Kopper-tox, but I don't. I've heard it's very agressive. Years ago, I used to use a product called Thrush-X -- I don't know if it's still available, but you could check. The cleaning and sugardine have worked for me so far now.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

coppertox works wonders for thrush .. don't get it on your hands tho it stains and smells lol


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## clasymover (Dec 28, 2008)

You can actually purchase a colloidal silver generator for about $100 at CS Solutions. www.economysilvergenerator.com and make as much as you need as well as your friends. There is also a lot of information about colloidal silver at that website. 

What I like about it is it is totally safe, natural and effective. If you look at the photos of feet on Pete Ramey's website you will see what a healthy frog should look like. Smooth, like a dog's pad, about the consistency of a firm apple. The CS soaking kill the encapsulated thrush which is fungus and the sole next to the heel will start to exfoliate within the 3 day period Zanytactics indicates. This allows you to bring the heels down to the hard sole and usually down below the level of the frog so the frog starts to get good pressure and finishes the job of pumping out the remaining fungi. http://www.swedishhoofschool.com/PDF-Articles/Thrush2.pdf has directions. I use Davis soaking boots and 1 pint for each foot for a minimum of 5 hours.

When I first started telling people about encapsulated thrush they were very insulted as thrush tends to implicate poor horse keeping but it comes mainly from poor frog pressure, too much sugar (which feeds the thrush) in the diet. Then they saw my horse's frogs and were amazed and said they didn't look real. They are and they're beautiful and healthy!


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

UPDATE!

It has been two months since this problem had first occurred. We went back and forth on trying to find out the root cause of the problem. The mare had shown signs of improvement after we got a farrier out and she had been treated with some antibiotics and painkiller. However she never fully recovered. We had at least two vets helping us over the phone due to that the mare was in too much pain to load in the trailer the first time. We had decided that this would be something that would need to be taken care of on trimming every 6 weeks instead of 8 weeks due to the growth of the hoof we had seen.

Now, it has been almost two months and the mare has gone back to being lame again, as if we never had seen any improvements again. This was the final draw for me and I took the mare to the vet for x-rays. (This was after I spent nearly 1/2 a day getting the mare in the trailer). The vet did a hoof test and found no pain response in the toe, or sole, but when pressure was applied to the frog and tissue on the bulb area on the back of the hoof we got a response to pain. Swelling was found leading up the tendons that are connected to the back of the hoof on the back side of the leg. 

X-rays found no infection or deteriation of the bones or joints. However we did find that the toe (bone) is slightly turned down a difference of 1/2 mm. 
Vet told us to trim every 4 weeks since at six weeks we are still seeing too much toe, give pain meds for 5 days, and limit the mare's excersize by keeping her in a smaller pen where she can comfortably move around, lay down. 

We are trying to contact the farrier again as I have not heard from him. But I will keep you posted. I feel like this is a learning experience for my family as well as others on this board.

**We did treat with Kopertox as mentioned although it may have killed any possible sign of bacteria, it did not help with the lameness. But it will be used if we do find a case of thrush in the future.**


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## barefoothooves (Sep 6, 2007)

It's amazing how something seemingly little, like thrush, or even a bruise, *or a careless trimming of the frog that leaves sensitive new tissue exposed*has to potential to throw the whole system out of control.
Thrush can cause severe pain in the back of the foot, causing a tippy toe landing, or sometimes the trim causes the tippy toe landing, that allows thrush to set in, viscious cycle, because if thrush was there first, walking tippy toe cuases imbalance so that they CAN'T land properly. Crazy, isn't it? And how tippy toe landing can put excessive strain on tendons, and eventually cause damage to the navicular bone, it's a chain reaction! 

Glad you involved the vet and got to the root of the problem-heel pain and a long toe.May I suggest using some hoof pads? A boot would help, but if you don't have the cash, use duct tape. They can cushion the foot just enough to get her to use the heel area again, without it hurting. Keep following your vet's instructions on trimming, though. The pads just encourage healing quickly, and need to be removed often to allow air in, or you're back to growing thrush. But when you can, use the pads, if you use a boot, you can ride with them, otherwise, use them for turnout or handwalking, they aren't designed for hard work without a boot.

*also, Koppertox is okay occasionally for severe thrush, but don't use it long term.It's very irritating to live, healthy tissue and makes it more suseptable to more infection! A better solution, and it WORKS is to dilute Apple Cider Vinegar 50/50 with water and spray on the frog and it's crevaces. It's not harmful, it's actually edible it's so safe, and how it works is it changes the pH of the hoof to make it more acidic and that is hard for fungus to thrive in that environment. It makes a good preventative treatment, as well, or you can use it for soaking abscesses.


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## bilyeuamber (Mar 2, 2009)

The best way to treat an abscess is to soak it. Get is super clean and keep it wrapped for a few days. Has it been popped? If it has not been popped then it needs to be to get everything out. The pressure is what makes horses so lame from something like this. I have dealt with many many situations like this. Epsom salt works well with water to soak the horses hoof in. You can also pack the abscess with something called a sole pack. you can get them at your local tack/horse supply. They come in a little wrapper and they smell terrible, but they draw the dirt and infection out. You pack it on the abscess and wrap it up. Iodine also works. If you clean the area well, putting some iodine on it and then wrapping it works. I hope this helps because it has worked for many horses that I have treated.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

i send what Bily said ... i have found that putting a layer of cotton, then vet wrap then duck tape works the best ... if they have a shoe on that is ... if you just do cotton and vet wrap, their shoe will cut through it ... good luck!


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

Farrier came out last week and I got reports that the mare almost instantly started walking better. I will keep yall posted on this situation just in case if someone finds themselves with the same problems. 

As far as wrapping the hoof or putting a boot on, that would be very challenging due to that I am not currently near by. My mom has been taking care of her, but even she don't have all the time in the world. I will check into the boot idea and see if I can find something that would be easy to put on. Could 1 boot be put on the front or would a horse require one on each hoof for balance?


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

If you are doing a vetwrap/duct tape boot you can certainly only boot the one hoof. I would think the same for a manufactured boot on pasture turnout would be fine. With the duct tape boot you can leave it on til it falls off, usually a day or 3.. just depends. It won't hurt a thing. Glad your horse is moving better, perhaps the farrier was able to release the abscess.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

What type of boots are we talking about? I found several different types and have no clue where to begin my search because I have never put any boots on a horse before.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Hoof boots would be easy boots(several varieties), old macs, boas, cavallos, etc. For treating abscesses(turnout) I prefer to do a duct tape boot. You have to wrap the drawing agent with vetwrap either way to keep it in place.


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## Velvetgrace (Aug 17, 2008)

Update: 5/12/2009

Mare is currently sound and was ridden yesterday for the first time since Nov. 2008. I have had two vets look at the mare, have one set of exrays, and have been working with the same farrier since Jan. 2009. All have stated she seems to have foundered at one point her her life and this problem maybe just a flare up and go away from time to time. 

Last friday I pulled the mare up out of the pasture and she was sound at 6 weeks after the last trim. However, the farrier said that she looked like she was 10 weeks from the last trim, due to her right front being big and flared out. While putting shoes on her we did discover that her right from hoof is slightly bigger than the left front. 

We put the natural balance shoes on her with the padding, because the soles are soft. It should also be mentioned that it has been raining and the ground has been kept wet and soft for the last 4 weeks and this is believed to be a contributing factor to the soft soles. 

I am now monitoring the mare (after being ridden) for swelling in the tendons behind the knee that lead into the frog or back of the hoof. This will tell me if she will continue to be sound, or needs more time resting and less time being ridden. I am not pushing her every day for 8 hours a day. However, we need to know if she can stand up to being ridden without causing too much stress on her.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am glad that you are having better luck keeping her sound. I wish you luck in the future too and hopefully she won't have any more flare-ups. That is great that you are riding her again.  Have fun!


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