# Cleve Wells (slightly graphic)



## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

One year suspension? What a joke.

Isabell Werth got a 2 year suspension for an accidental drug mishap. 

Mr Wells needs to be kicked out for life. What a scum bag.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree Misfit. Words can not describe what disgust I feel right now. That's just horrible.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

OOOONNNNEEEE year? That is bull. Pure bull.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I recently watched another western trainer attempt to do a show on dressage. He was using a twisted wire snaffle and over tightended draw reins. He had the poor girl's horse doing tiny figure 8's in an attempt to supple him while never allowing the horse a chance to straighten before switching directions, and then had the rider kick the horse to keep him moving forward while having it basically overflexed and twisted into a pretzel. It was so painful to watch. I really don't get how people don't understand that they are hurting the animal. It's really sad.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

They understand, they just don't care.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

Also, someone please tell me animal abuse charges are being filed so this rat b****** had to answer for this in a court of law.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

These kinds of people are just out to win, they don't care about the horse. It's disgusting.


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## AussieDaisyGirl (May 21, 2009)

Oh my goodness that poor horse  The ****** seems to be getting off a little too lightly if you ask me. But bravo to AQHA for at least standing up.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

^ They stood up then promptly sat back down. A year is hardly a slap on the wrist.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Misfit said:


> One year suspension? What a joke.
> 
> Isabell Werth got a 2 year suspension for an accidental drug mishap.
> 
> Mr Wells needs to be kicked out for life. What a scum bag.


Absolutely! I think the only reason they did it even for 1 year is really REALLy bad publicity of the case (it was all over the internet). How sad....

In fact with all this BS AQHA is doing and saying I doubt I'll extend my membership next year when my 3 year will be over.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Misfit said:


> ^ They stood up then promptly sat back down. A year is hardly a slap on the wrist.


^^ Exactly. And $10,000 fine? That is pocket change to someone like him. AND many of his customers probably won't even take their horses somewhere else because he has the big name and they care about winning just as much as he does and they care less for the horse.:evil::evil:

I think he should be mysteriously trampled to death in a dark pasture somewhere.

Me and Dobe volunteer. I feel so sorry for that poor horse. It is people like him that give western riders and spurs a bad name.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Suspending Wells’ full membership privileges pursuant to the terms of Rule 106(i) for a period of *no less than one (1) year*, at which time he is eligible to show cause for reinstatement;
I am reading this as he is suspended for an indefinite period. They are saying no less then a year and then they are saying he has to show cause for reinstatement. It will be interesting to see if he is reinstated. Also, AQHA isn't the one that is responsible for charging him with animal cruelity. They are not the law. The question is, are there charges regarding animal cruelty? I'd be shocked if there are not. 

There is a guy here locally that was suspended by the AQHA several years ago for some type of cruel training method (I'm not sure what exactly it was.) He was never reinstated and is now training paints. It's interesting how people can do something awful in one breed organization and then jump to the next and continue a career.


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## Horsegma (Dec 1, 2008)

Here is my personal experience with Cleve Wells.

Several years ago when I first got started in horses I went to his booth at a Horse Fair and asked him a question about bits.

He had me hold out my hand to him and HIT my hand with it! It hurt a lot, he didn't just tap me with it and he knew it was going to hurt. To this day I have no idea of why he felt he had to hurt me with it. 

He was making some kind of a point about some bits that could hurt a horse. What I couldn't figure out either was that his point had nothing to do with my question. I was asking him about if I used a curb bit would that work with the methods he was showing us at his demo.

Ever since then if I saw his image in a magazine I would just shudder and get a dark cloud feeling.

He's mean, just plain mean!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> There is a guy here locally that was suspended by the AQHA several years ago for some type of cruel training method (I'm not sure what exactly it was.) He was never reinstated and is now training paints. It's interesting how people can do something awful in one breed organization and then jump to the next and continue a career.


This is just unbelievable! Personally I think the charges must be much higher on such people (like, say, $100K!), so they could understand from *financial *point of view it's _not _OK what they do.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Please remember folks - the horse was at his barn, there is no proof he ever came into contact with the horse.

Not defending him or the trainers he employs.

This is also old news. Isn't there something better to discuss?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> This is just unbelievable! Personally I think the charges must be much higher on such people (like, say, $100K!), so they could understand from *financial *point of view it's _not _OK what they do.


I agree, because it is FINANCES that are driving those types of people to forget about the animals welfare and do whatever it takes to achieve their goal which is to win. Since when are sports about winning? I was always taught that it is about FUN.....


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

You see an unbelieveable amount of this in every discipline. I've been to many horse shows where the horses have spray paint on them from spur marks and rips in their mouth it's sad, it really is!

But what happened to this horse is pretty minor compared to alot of stuff that I have seen. I doubt he will get reinstated.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

...and it is every breed and every show. I agree FGR. It's sad.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

i think a good old fashioned mob hunt followed by a hanging is in order....(ok fine, maybe not, but its just awful to see how some people treat their animals)


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> But what happened to this horse is pretty minor compared to alot of stuff that I have seen.


The most sad part is that even AC doesn't do much in some situations. There is a barn in my area with horses in really bad condition (ribby, I mean, RIBBY in way they have troubles walking). I know the BO was reported to AC, but she ALWAYS gets away. How? Noone knows. May be she has a hand in AC, or she pay them, or she can find out when they are coming and hide those in worse condition. Don't know. What else can be done? Have no idea. What drives me crazy though is the fact of the stupid idiots (excuse my french, but I usually use even stronger words), who keeps horses there FOR YEARS. Some are dying (colics, kicked, ...), some are all beat up (because 40+ horses are fighting for one round rotten bale), and it's still OK with owners. I just don't get it....


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

That is so right Kitten! Owners need to speak up! There are so many trainers around here that beat the sh*t our of their clients horses. But the owners of the horses turn a blind eye and don't say a word. So it goes on and on.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

...alot of trainers do this behind closed doors. The owners don't always turn a blind eye, sometimes they just don't know. And when they see an injury, there is some type of excuse to explain it....

That's why I would never send a horse to a "Visit your horse by Appointment only" barn. There are a good many of them around her. If I want to see my horse, I'm coming. Period.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> ...alot of trainers do this behind closed doors. The owners don't always turn a blind eye, sometimes they just don't know. And when they see an injury, there is some type of excuse to explain it....
> 
> That's why I would never send a horse to a "Visit your horse by Appointment only" barn. There are a good many of them around her. If I want to see my horse, I'm coming. Period.


An appointment to see an animal YOU own? That's insane.


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

mls said:


> Please remember folks - the horse was at his barn, there is no proof he ever came into contact with the horse.
> 
> Not defending him or the trainers he employs.
> 
> This is also old news. Isn't there something better to discuss?


What goes on in a barn a person owns is that person's business. He is responsible for what happens in his barn just as I am responsible if someone comes into my barn and beats a horse to death. 

It may be old news, but I hadn't heard about it, so I'm glad it was posted.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

When I first started riding years ago, the trainer at the barn would beat the owner's horses if they were "bad" or "needed to be taught a lesson." I mean, putting them in the stall with a chain over their nose, jerking away and beating them with a dressage whip. She wanted everyone to follow suit, and a lot of the people did, but I refused to. When we finally moved, we told several of the owners what had been going on and they promptly left the barn. This trainer went out of business completely not long after. 

This kind of cruelty goes on still and it's horrible to think about. Even with all the wonderful information out there about training horses these days, people still find it okay to treat horses this way. It's inconcievable to me.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

The guy got a slap on the wrist and a pat on the back.
Give me a break.

He should be banned from AQHA for life, and not be allowed to train any horse for many years. 
Thing is, he's been known for years to be "harsh" with his animals... but people keep sending horses to him because he wins. 

Way to keep your integrity, AQHA.

ETA - any trainer found with this sort of abuse or worse should get the punishment they're due. It's true Tiff, this is nowhere near the worst of the worst, but he should still be reprimanded, at least to send a message.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I think people like him should have the punishment imposed on him like he did with those poor horses. Someone needs to sit on him with a long shanked spade bit and sharpened rock grinder spurs and just kick and jerk away. See how he likes it.


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## PassionHorse (Jun 14, 2009)

People like him are horrible.

He should get much more then he got. I wouldn't allow him to own Horses again...it worries me how he may treat, say, dogs, so I'd probably let him not own any animal.

Ugh.


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## KevinB (Jul 14, 2009)

Y'all are completely uneducated about this, Cleve had never ridden the horse... it was his assistant Megan(Which AQHA has done nothing to her, yet she has a history of being fired from BNT's because she is too hard on horses).


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

His barn, his employee, his name as the trainer, he cashes the checks - his responsibility. The fact that he doesn't know or have any control over those who work for him is criminal. 

Look at the equipment he sells on his site. I good friend of mine in Stephenville knows him and is surprised it hasn't happened sooner.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

His barn, his responsibility. It's not like Wells had a sterling reputation to begin with, this is just icing on the cake.

Plus, the fact that the AQHA hasn't done anything to the assistant doesn't improve their standing in my books.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I do agree that the BO needs to be held responsible, but the thing I don't agree with, is that the person actually responsible isn't being held responsible in any form or fashion. They should both be losing their AQHA membership, and the apprentice\assistant shouldn't be allowed to work horses anymore, period.


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

mom2pride said:


> I do agree that the BO needs to be held responsible, but the thing I don't agree with, is that the person actually responsible isn't being held responsible in any form or fashion. They should both be losing their AQHA membership, and the apprentice\assistant shouldn't be allowed to work horses anymore, period.


Definitely.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Do we know that nothing has been done? The OP only brought out what the AQHA is doing to the trainer of record not his employee.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

KevinB said:


> Y'all are completely uneducated about this, Cleve had never ridden the horse... it was his assistant Megan(Which AQHA has done nothing to her, yet she has a history of being fired from BNT's because she is too hard on horses).


This post mentions that nothing's been done...either way...I will definitely stick with training MY OWN horses...atleast I know how they are treated, and if someone is helping me with them I can guide them, or tell them to scram should they step out of bounds...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I wouldnt clump ALL trainers into any type of category. And I wouldnt blame AQHA for the mess. I would just consider this when making a decision to have a horse trained and make sure that I pick a trainer that has an open door policy so that I could come in and see my horse anytime, anyday, with or without notice...


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> I wouldnt clump ALL trainers into any type of category. And I wouldnt blame AQHA for the mess. I would just consider this when making a decision to have a horse trained and make sure that I pick a trainer that has an* open door policy so that I could come in and see my horse anytime, anyday, with or without notice*...


That was requirement numero uno as we searched for a good trainer for AZ for when the time to get him trained comes. I'll pay more for someone willing to let me drop by anytime.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's true FP84. Very good point. Not all trainers are like that and really, there are more trainers who go about things the right way because horse owners are generally more educated now than they were 30 years ago. Then, you sent a horse to a trainer and they would call you when they were done, you didn't go check on them or anything. Now, everyone is very cautious about how thier horses are being treated and trainers have had to adjust to that. I don't know if the AQHA did anything to her or not but I hope they did. The fact that he never rode the horse is kindof a null point because if his training setup is so big that he can't personally keep tabs on the training of every single horse, then he needs to either re-evaluate his management or cut down the size. He is still responsible for how the horses are treated at his barn being trained under his name.


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## sandsarita (Jan 20, 2008)

Here's my opinion on the subject based on what I have heard. The horse was injured while Wells was away for multiple weeks at a show (this happens frequently on the AQHA circuit, that's why they need assistant trainers they trust). When he got back, he SUPOSSEDLY immediately fired her and another person working there because that person didn't alert him to what was going on. Now does Wells have a reputation of being hard on a horse? Yes, I personally wouldn't send my horse to him, there are other WP trainers I prefer with better methods. But I have a hard time completely crucifying him when he wasn't there and didn't have knowledge. Does he need to be reprimanded? Yes, absolutely. But the person who really needs to be punished is the assistant trainer who has a reputation for doing these things at other barns, being fired, and moving on to the next and is still working as a trainer. 

just my own opinion, though, and makes me glad that I have two trainers I can go to and completely trust, and a third that is closely getting to that point.


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