# Using a Crop?



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with using a crop as long as you use it correctly. One thing is never use a crop as punishment. You should only use it to encourage the horse to go forward. Otherwise, if you do use it for punishment, and you give a tap to ask for the canter, the horse might think that they are being punished for picking up the canter. So try to only use it as an encouragement to gain impulsion or move forward.

Also, I ride with a dressage whip. I only have to hold it in my hand and occasionally tap behind the saddle to encourage Jesse's back end to work a little more.


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## horsegirlmaddy (Dec 6, 2008)

My old instructor's motto was "Going riding without a crop is like going into battle without a weapon" I highly respect that instructor, but I don't necessarily agree with that statement. Iride with a crop 75% of the time. I mostly just hold it in case I need it, and so she knows I have it. Some days I don't need to use it at all, and some days Rizzo needs a bit of encouragement. But I agree with Arksly; it should never be used as a punishment, but it's not wrong to carry on for encouragement.


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

I just recently got a 3 year old haffy that wouldn't go faster than a walk so I used a crop on her and she moved out nicely after she learned that I had it. It's a highly useful tool, however I wouldnt recommend it as a tool for punishment.


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## Shalani (Jul 16, 2009)

You should never "learn" to ride with a crop its something that comes later . Because it is an extention of your hand & and beginners unsteady hand is no place for a crop.
If I were you I would use a dressage whip to back up your leg instead of tapping her should.

Then you may be able to *kick* to stubborn habit all together lol
If you squeeze (no response) , kick ( Still nothing) then smack with the dressage whip right behind your leg your horse will soon get the hint its easier to move on the squeeze


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_I also learned to ride without a crop or spur. Beginners shouldnt learn to ride with them as they do not have steady hands, could over use it, or use it improperly._

_I have no issue using a crop....BEHIND my leg. You shouldnt reach for the crop all the time as it can become ineffective. It should be used as an *addition* to your legs. I agree with Shalani on the ask(squeeze), tell(kick), demand(crop). Soon the horse will realize that you mean business as right now it sounds like the horse you are riding doesn't respect the little tap you are giving her, so it is time to start giving a harder tap. Sometimes all I have to do is show my horse the crop and he knows that if he doesnt start doing what I want, then he is going to get a nice sound smack. _


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## boldstart (Oct 11, 2009)

I always hold a dressage whip and just use it as another aid if my isnt horse is working off his back end or just being that tad lazy.


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## HurricaneKatt (Oct 12, 2010)

Shalani said:


> You should never "learn" to ride with a crop its something that comes later . Because it is an extention of your hand & and beginners unsteady hand is no place for a crop.
> If I were you I would use a dressage whip to back up your leg instead of tapping her should.
> 
> Then you may be able to *kick* to stubborn habit all together lol
> If you squeeze (no response) , kick ( Still nothing) then smack with the dressage whip right behind your leg your horse will soon get the hint its easier to move on the squeeze



That is really helpful! Thank you! And Velvets, I think that you are right, I usually don't hit her very hard at all as I don't want to be mean. But that usually means I have to tap her again harder. I'd rather just have to tap her once and be done with it. lol And just as clarification, I don't use it as punishment, I use it to get her attention when she isn't listening. She likes to ignore you when you ask her to trot sometimes, and when it is near dinner time, she has a big problem with stopping at the gate of the arena and refusing to go anywhere. :evil: She is a very very stubborn little mare and is always fighting to be in charge. I just want to be sure I am assertive without being _mean_. 

Thank you all for the input! It was very helpful and I will definitely put it to use.


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## Shalani (Jul 16, 2009)

Have you ever heard the phrase " you've gotta be cruel to be kind" It rings true in your situation , Im not saying beat her by any means ! 
If she knows what your asking and ignores you and challenges you it will continue to be a power struggle for as long as you allow it. Leaving both of you unhappy.

If you go out there with the right mindset( *If I ask you to move you fricken move!*) not to let her get away with any bad behavior and you will have to be firm maybe even hard ( she may call your bluff) you cannot back down!!!!

Oh and always allow a rest / thinking time after she has done the right thing its great reward bout 10-15 sec with a pat on the neck then back to work.

You will only have to put her inline a couple of times then she will accept you as the boss. And you should not have those problems again. 

If you are not confident in your riding abilities get a trainer to help you.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_^^agree with the power struggle thing. _

_Being in charge does not equal mean. Use the crop on your leg when you are standing around the next time you are at the barn and you can feel how it is just a pop on your leg. You have to hit a horse really hard with a crop to raise a welt. And I mean REALLY hard._

_With her stopping at the gate....dont get off near the gate at all. Get off at the far end, in the middle, on the side....anywhere but the door to go out. Then walk her around before she is allowed to go out. Stop halfway thru your lesson, get off and get back on. If you circle her at the exit end, keep your leg on until she is past, kick her if she is slowing down, and if she drops to a trot from a walk, then go for your crop. _


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## HurricaneKatt (Oct 12, 2010)

Ok. I am taking notes!  

At the gate she usually does one of a few things. She bolts (I can slow her down from a bolt no problem) but then she stops at the gate. Often, as we circle towards it she will just about run me into the fence. I turn her so that she runs herself into it instead of ripping my leg off, but then we are at a stop again. Once she is at a stop, at the gate, she is very hard to get going. Last time we were doing good, but then she decided it was dinner time and she was done. I got her going around, but she just listened less and less. I finally got her around once, then we walked around a few times. 
I am going to try to go to the barn Thursday but probably won't have time to ride. She is also very _very _stubborn about picking up her front feet for cleaning (she wasn't treated to well before her owner bought her) so I am going to jsut go and groom her and work on getting her to pick up her feet. Some days she does fine, but with her it is like once she makes up her mind, good luck convincing her otherwise! I of course, don't let her win, but that often means that I spend as much time trying to clean her feet as I do riding, and a lot of time riding trying to get her past the gate. :roll: Those 2 things are her biggest issues. Other than that she is such a sweet little horse. But she is very much a boss mare...


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## HurricaneKatt (Oct 12, 2010)

BTW...this is Shadow.  She is a QH, and about 14-15 hands. I'm 5'1" if it gives you any size reference.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

*Crop is ok, don't worry.*

Hi, 
You and Shadow are really cute together. 
Mare's are special. They just take more finesse, and to be honest, I just prefer geldings. But , mares are special.
anyway, after getting off topic there, I ride with a dressage whip, or a crop, or a piece of a willow twig, or whatever I can use to make an impression on my horse that he will remember and respect.
If he thinks he wants to argue with me about which branch in the trail to take; the one I want vs the one that goes home, I let him make the mistake of trying to go home, i lift the rein to my direction and gently put a leg on, then i raise my voice and add more rein pressure , then I take the whip and smack him behind my leg.
OR, if it is a minor arguement or the horse is just not paying attention to my request, after "ask" and "tell", I lightly smack my own booted lower leg, the sound of the whip hitting my leg wakes my horse up and he says "yes ma'am!". 
One thing I would like to add here regarding using a whip/crop to get forward out of the horse. If you asked with your leg, asked firmly and now have to apply a crop, remember what you are asking for FORWARD, so when you crack him little one he will no doubt bound forward. You mustn't then yank him in the mouth with the reins. If all you wanted was a brisk walk but he gives you a brisk trot in response to the whip, let him go forward freely a bit before asking him to slow down. Otherwise you are punishing his mouth for him doing just what you asked him to do.

To be honest, it sounds like you have just a bit too much of a luvy-duvy relationship with this mare and not enough of a respect based relationship. Her not lifting her feet for you, that can be another way of her "blowing you off". Does she also run over you when you lead her, or grab offered food before you even put it down? You might consider how you stand in relation to her, She may be boss mare in the horse world, but is she boss mare to YOU too?
You are petite and cute, but you can be the leader that is needed, I bet.


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## Redial (Oct 1, 2010)

I've had my mare for 8 years and always ride with a crop because she behaves better if she knows there's a crop and also carries herself much better, normally she'll get barn sour or really slow, but as soon as i pick up a crop she picks up and behaves lol.


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## HurricaneKatt (Oct 12, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Hi,
> You and Shadow are really cute together.
> Mare's are special. They just take more finesse, and to be honest, I just prefer geldings. But , mares are special.
> anyway, after getting off topic there, I ride with a dressage whip, or a crop, or a piece of a willow twig, or whatever I can use to make an impression on my horse that he will remember and respect.
> ...


Thanks!  And you are pretty spot on. haha I DO need to be more of a boss, and have been told so by her owner, and myself!  I have been doing better, it has just been weird getting used to using a crop because I Never used one before riding her. My Mom taught me to ride, and I was never handed a crop, and always told not to hit a horse (of course, meaning beat not smack lol) and me being the literal-minded child I was got it set in my head that crops were mean. Now I know better of course, but it is still hard to erase old thought patterns. lol
She refuses to pick up her feet for other people too, not just me. I'm not sure what happened to her, but she was definitely mistreated. ie her halter and bridle have to be put on backwards from what you normally would as she is Very shy of one ear - someone twisted it! She also balks at taking a bit on occasion. Again, she does all of this with other people so I know it isn't just me. That said, I DO need to be bossier.  lol I'm not sure when I will get to ride again, but I am going to work on her feet this week if I can.


Also, no she doesn't rush me when I am leading she is very polite on the lead. lol She does try to pull you to graze, but she responds when you pull her head up. She is nosy about her treats, but I don't know about food that I set down. The barn she is boarded at is full care I believe so she is fed by someone else. Right now because of my school schedule I am just riding, but next semester my course load will (hopefully) be a lot lighter and I will be leasing her officially.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Thank you for the full description. Sounds like a mixed bag. 
Its hard to find that place where you are the confident leader and not the crabby nag. It isn't really about being bossy so much as being very clear with what you say and when you say something, MEAN IT!. So, you have to not only observe how your horse responds to you, but what are you saying to her and are you following up on any requests. You always ASk before demanding, but if you do ask, don't walk away from this until you get an answer, even if it's only a small one. Then, "thank her", which is as important as the request, if not more.
I think kids find adults that are like that very reassuring; not bossy but very clear with direction and not willing to just forget it.
Anyway, I hope you get to ride more and just be observant of her and yourself and don't dis or knock yourself for not being assertive enough, just work on it with the same "a little bit better today" sort of attitude you would have whil training a horse. Won't you extend the same empathy, patience and leadership to yourself that you will want to extend to your beloved horse?


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## HurricaneKatt (Oct 12, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Thank you for the full description. Sounds like a mixed bag.
> Its hard to find that place where you are the confident leader and not the crabby nag. It isn't really about being bossy so much as being very clear with what you say and when you say something, MEAN IT!. So, you have to not only observe how your horse responds to you, but what are you saying to her and are you following up on any requests. You always ASk before demanding, but if you do ask, don't walk away from this until you get an answer, even if it's only a small one. Then, "thank her", which is as important as the request, if not more.
> I think kids find adults that are like that very reassuring; not bossy but very clear with direction and not willing to just forget it.
> Anyway, I hope you get to ride more and just be observant of her and yourself and don't dis or knock yourself for not being assertive enough, just work on it with the same "a little bit better today" sort of attitude you would have whil training a horse. Won't you extend the same empathy, patience and leadership to yourself that you will want to extend to your beloved horse?


Very true. I do tend to be hard on myself in general.  hehe We have been working on it together, and are definitely getting better, but there is still work to be done for both Shadow _and _myself. I went on a 3 hour long trail ride the other day on the BO's Westerm show horse (ooooh man was he a nice ride! Smoothest gait I have ever felt! ) and I feel like I learned a lot from him (the horse). I have been out of the horse scene for a while, and having 3 hours at a nice smooth pace with a cooperative horse really gave me a chance to work out a few rusty-kinks in my seat and what not (like keeping my heels down. I have never ever been good at that, I am a hard-core toe pointer lol ). I was able to focus on brushing up on some my _MY_ skills instead of spending the whole ride trying to get the _horse _to focus. **** I am excited to ride Shadow again both after the trail ride, and the advice I've received here. I really appreciate everyone's input! And please do keep it coming.
PS I feel much better about using the riding crop now!


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

I am a woosie, I admit.
I do carry a crop if the trainer / instructor recommends it on a specific horse, but it hinders me so much and I have to watch my hands carefully not to swing that crop back and forth like a window cleaner.

Even in that case, I rarely use the crop and I do all possible stuff to avoid using it. I mostly threaten with it, pretend to hit, hit my own boot. So far it worked. Especially hitting my own boot or swooshing the air.

I know this is not correct and that at least once I should have listened to the "SMACK'IM ONCE AND GOOD" yelling but I just can't get myself to do it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I always ride with dressage whip in arena, rarely use it though. When horse doesn't want to move using whip once is way better and effective than keep nagging horse with your legs. I also try to carry jumping crop with me on trails (when I don't forget), but that's just to chase flies away from there ears.


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## JustPaint (Sep 27, 2010)

Glad someone else asked this, the horse I am leasing now is very bit on the lazy side. Owner mentioned to use the crop boy I don't think I've ever seen so much spunk out of him in a walk. I didn't have to use it, he just saw her hand it to me and his whole demeanor changed, lol.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Just a thought for you. The crop should be an extension of your hand but let's say you put a horse out to pasture, but he's not used to electric. What happens when he touches it for the very first time? And every now and then, he will try it again to. The same with the crop, one good pop will make him think twice but he will test it again to see if he can get away with a behavior. But he is getting respect out of the crop cuz he knows what will happen if he doesnt do what he is told. Good luck with your horse and she reminds me of my sisters horse Velvet. She is a Quarab.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

JustPaint said:


> Glad someone else asked this, the horse I am leasing now is very bit on the lazy side. Owner mentioned to use the crop boy I don't think I've ever seen so much spunk out of him in a walk. I didn't have to use it, he just saw her hand it to me and his whole demeanor changed, lol.


I noticed it to be a case with lesson horses a lot. As long as they SEE you have one - different horse. My horses are rotten spoiled mares and just one rider (me), so they sometime throwing tantrums (like not feeling in mood to walk energetic), and that's when tap of the whip reminds them about "work time".


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## HurricaneKatt (Oct 12, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> I noticed it to be a case with lesson horses a lot. As long as they SEE you have one - different horse. My horses are rotten spoiled mares and just one rider (me), so they sometime throwing tantrums (like not feeling in mood to walk energetic), and that's when tap of the whip reminds them about "work time".


Well she is not a lesson horse technically but she is ridden by various people q d sometimes used for lessons. Her owner got her so that her friends could come along on trail rides, but they just didn't come often so she was looking for someone to lease her (where I come in lol). But because the other horses in the barn are boarders, and of the rest one is the BOs show horse, one is quite crazy, and one is Shadow. Lol So she gets used occasionally by other riders around the barn. She's kind of The Extra Horse. Haha Poor girl. I don't think it helps that with various ppl riding her there be inconsistencies in cues that probably confuse her. Hopefully once I'm leasing her officially that will be better. [right now I "lease" her on a day to day basis]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EmilyandNikki (Sep 7, 2010)

I ride in a lesson barn so a crop is a MUST. The horses can be argumentative, when you want them to go a decent speed. Sometimes just holding the crop works, other times I have to use it behind the leg...I'm really bad at it though, I prefer to ignore I'm holding one, and kick them instead of actually using it...I'm getting better though. When I was riding the youngest horse in the barn, I eventually got to the point where I could get him to go foreword without using the crop in a lesson! It was still present though.

They are best kind for plowing along around the arena at low speeds in every gait though...just not the best for foreword motion.


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