# Who's in charge? Barnowner or boarders?



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

It would seem that Mattie, as well as the other boarders (aka her clients) see you as the "hired help" rather than another boarder. I can see how that could easily happen given the snobby mentality of some horse people and the way they treat anyone who mucks a stall or sweeps an aisle. I would have a HUGE issue with that, as well as the lack of support from the BO. However, if Maddie has brought several boarders in, there is a financial reason for the BO to please her. With the BO acting so spineless, it sure makes it difficult for you. I sure would be looking elsewhere......


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

leave if you are unhappy. I allowed a boarder to do some training and lessons out of my barn for a small while. Lets just say she was asked to leave on bad terms shortly after. Its my barn.  Ive found many of these trainers take too much ownership and try to run things Just my .02


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

From what I have read I feel the boarding facility is not really set up very well as a lesson barn. No boarder should have to struggle to get their horse out of a stall, or wait for one to get off the cross ties. If she has a small barn maybe talking to her about setting up outside grooming areas, so that it frees up the isle for work to get done as no boarders horse should have to wait till lessons are done to get fed. Or a possible injured horse to get treated in a safe space. A outside grooming area can easily be achieved by placing 2 good solid 4x4 posts in the ground and attaching cross ties.
As for the lady who thinks all should bow to her needs, she needs to get a grip. I don't care how much money a person has you get respect when you give respect. As far as her xlarge horse some barns do not allow certain size horses when the facility cannot cater to their size. Wether it be stall sizes pen sizes food rations.
As for you, you need to decide when you had enough with messing around with such snotty people and move to a more relaxed spacious barn. There are a lot of barns that offer work in xchange situations. Better ones if you ask me.
JMHO

TRR


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## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

Actually, I do feel like the "hired help" some of the time. I get along with some of Mattie's students/clients well, but not as well as those people that aren't her students. I have pretty good relationships with the other boarders that aren't affiliated with her. Sometimes I get the impression that she's waiting for the old barnowner to drop, then swoop in and buy the barn. It definitely wouldn't suit her standards, and if that happened I'd be gone yesterday. 
I thought about introducing a sign to set outdoors that lets people know when chores or turnouts are taking place. Then, they can expect to move their horse. We do have a bathing station outside that has crossties, but I'm sure they'd all complain about having to haul their tiny dressage saddles that distance (I love dressage, but they are just those type of people!). 
There used to be a number of barns in our area. Poor management has forced me out of one, another shut down with 4 weeks notice and its 40 boarders were left scrambling to find a place for their horses. So everything is very full up right now. My other option would be to take them home, but that is my last resort only. 

One thing that really made me angry is that the barnowner said that "Amanda" was upset about how I treated her. As an adult, I would expect another adult to come to ME to talk about it. Instead, she went to the barnowner and complained to her. It just seems very immature, especially for a woman that's 30-40 years older than me. Expressing my anger is very rare for me, so the conversation between us would have been very civil. 

For now I'm going to see how things play out. I will set my foot down again if needed, and will definitely move if needed. The barnowner was very polite and nice to me afterwards, and I think she understands where I'm coming from. Let's hope it stays that way. She even said that she'd be glad when Mattie's lesson horse was either moved or sold. I do believe you all are right- they are a large chunk of her income. So if she ousts Mattie, she puts herself in jeopardy. Although with the number of people wanting a stall (she has a waiting list), they may not be hard to replace...


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I guess if I was the BO, I would be calling a meeting of all involved - that includes all "staff" and Mattie to get things ironed out by assessing what's happening and how it can be handled more effectively. However, I don't think that's not going to happen as the BO may have confidence issues with herself as well as lacking in negotiation skills -- and you need both of those when you're going up against a dominant personality. So that means, for you, there's probably not a lot you can do - you might be able to get the BO to commit to putting up a scheduling board and that may or may not help. I think you might want to start scouting out other locations just in case. Good luck.


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## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

Actually, we have a lesson/vet/farrier scheduling board... But Mattie expects everyone to "check her website" to view the lesson times. Somewhat difficult when some of us don't have internet at home or on our phones!  Hopefully the barnowner gets a little more serious about writing down appointments and lesson times. Some people don't like their horse fed within an hour of a lesson, so it's difficult to know when to feed them if they don't write it down.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Maybe suggest cross tie rings be installed in the stalls. That way the aisle is left open all the time. Easy to add or remove a cross tie rope.

Or, try a bluff & tell the BO that you don't want to do the chores anymore because you can't do the 'hurry up & wait thing.' Be prepared for her to say fine though.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Why the cross ties? We used to carry the saddle and bridle to the horse even if in a standing stall. The only time the aisle and crossties were used was for braiding a mane for a show as the light was better. A horse could always be led out the other end


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm going to offer a different perspective.

Mattie and Amanda bring in bucks. Money always is the boss.

I doubt Amanda was upset at you specifically. However, this lady comes twice a month to deal with her horse who has a rep for being a jerk. She probably was upset that she had to move the horse because she's a little scared of him and knows he's a jerk. Imagine having to move a horse that you know has your number? The lady was probably scared out of her mind.

You, trainer and BO need a better system for organizing the barn lessons and chores. Maybe she can text or email her schedule? She could probably even make a mailing list on her website tied to her calendar so that you could subscribe to that and all she has to do is update her calendar.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

DA-they do not have internet on their phones, and some do not have it even in their homes. That is what the OP said. So, if Mattie wants folks to feed/not feed, do chores, etc. around her schedule she may have to make the effort to write it down. It is not yet her barn. 

OP-your Bo needs to set some guidelines. They can be minimal, but to "best serve the clients" (that is how I would "sell it" to the BO and Mattie) it needs to be easily accessible-at a glance.

I will say, however, that I boarded briefly at a stuck up dressage barn. I am not saying anything against dressage folks, but this was a dressage barn and the folks were "above" everything-or so they thought)....and even with a board-people would get off their horses and add an hour to their ride time.....when I had come out to ride based on the schedule I had checked the day before. So guess what-I got on and rode anyway......pretty entertaining to feel their eyes going thru me as I rode my "cow pony" as the BO referred to him. (she loved him....lol) THe one guy actually told me he had trained with "anke...." and he actually had his nose in the air as he said it! 

Anyway-these types, at least any I have ever experienced, will never groom their horses in the stall. They would not even consider it. THeir horses will not ground tie, and honestly-cross ties is al they know and can deal with......so many of their horses are just like described above. Rider cannot deal with horse, and only rides for lesson.

Again-I have nothing against dressage, but it does seem to me that there are more folks with this "entitled" attitude in that particular discipline than others I have been around. JMHO


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I didn't wade through all of the comments but boarder or not it is simply common courtesy/barn etiquette whatever you want to call it to move your horse out of the way for a minute or two so someone else can get by. Mu horse was in a stall right behind a set of cross ties and we were always getting boxed in by students and other boarders..no one had an issue with allowing us to get out by moving their horse to the side. The issue isn't the boarding but the manners. or lack thereof, of the horse owner and the barn manager's unwillingness to enforce some very basic courtesies. Snobby or not has nothing to do with it..we are talking simple courtesy and manners here. I don't care if its the lowest beginner or an olympic caliber rider/trainer. People don't have to be chatty or necessarily friendly but basic barn etiquette needs to be enforced.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> I will say, however, that I boarded briefly at a stuck up dressage barn. I am not saying anything against dressage folks, but this was a dressage barn and the folks were "above" everything-or so they thought)....and even with a board-people would get off their horses and add an hour to their ride time.....when I had come out to ride based on the schedule I had checked the day before. So guess what-I got on and rode anyway......pretty entertaining to feel their eyes going thru me as I rode my "cow pony" as the BO referred to him. (she loved him....lol) THe one guy actually told me he had trained with "anke...." and he actually had his nose in the air as he said it!
> 
> Anyway-these types, at least any I have ever experienced, will never groom their horses in the stall. They would not even consider it. THeir horses will not ground tie, and honestly-cross ties is al they know and can deal with......so many of their horses are just like described above. Rider cannot deal with horse, and only rides for lesson.
> 
> Again-I have nothing against dressage, but it does seem to me that there are more folks with this "entitled" attitude in that particular discipline than others I have been around. JMHO


I have had the same experience and I aspire to be one of those upper level dressage riders but to me people are people. I don't treat them any way but with courtesy..may not be able to stand them and groan when I see them coming but they would never know it. I get out of the way if I have to, help people, especially the kids with horses if they need it (even if they ARE rude and can't even say thank you for the help), I clean up after my horse, coil the hose in the wash rack (major pet peeve of mine for people to leave the hose uncoiled) and in most cases I prefer to tack up in the stall so that I DON'T have to move every ten minutes 

As for a western rider, just don't mess with my dressage letters ...I get lost.

I happen to be at a very good barn. It isn't super fancy but we have people form early beginners, and I mean 5 yr olds, to older retired folks, some wealthy some no so much but for 95% of us, we talk or at least put with each other..no one has such an attitude that they act like someone else with a less fancy horse is below them. Sure, I could go to a fancier barn with better looking stalls but to me the atmosphere is important. I am not going to take fancy if I am going to be absolutely miserable due to the, ahem "people" that board there as well.

One barn I rode at in a different state wouldn't even accept boarders if they horse they were bringing in wasn't worth at least 30K. I only had a few more months at the place when I found out (was in the process of a military transfer) or otherwise I'd have left. That to me is just ridiculous.

As for Anke..she uses a method called rolkur which is becoming considered as an abusive training method for dressage horses but is a very common practice in Germany..it is starting to be more and more frowned on in the dressage world.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Tlkng-you and I live close. I used to live in MD....and the neighboring state I now live in (in winter) is FAR worse or "snob factor". I still keep my horse in MD from time to time.....certainly closer than anywhere in VA that would even think of anyone riding western within miles of them. Plus I have some really good riding friends who are BO's in MD. In many disciplines. ;-) THey will always take in a "token cowgirl". lol


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Tlkng-you and I live close. I used to live in MD....and the neighboring state I now live in (in winter) is FAR worse or "snob factor". I still keep my horse in MD from time to time.....certainly closer than anywhere in VA that would even think of anyone riding western within miles of them. Plus I have some really good riding friends who are BO's in MD. In many disciplines. ;-) THey will always take in a "token cowgirl". lol


In our barn if it has four legs it is welcome...dogs, cats, horses..... Oh, we generally like the owners too.....we do draw the line at lions, tigers, bears.....they tend to eat the kids...er..hmmm....no..won't say it.....:lol:


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I think your BO is at fault. It's up to her to enforce the rules and coordinate things.
You put up schedules, you make it known that if the schedule changes you have to be notified, then you notify everyone else. 
Yes she has a difficult boarder who brings in a lot of money, so some concessions can be made, but you don't inconvenience everyone else at their expense. 
Just the fact that your BO brought up eviction would make me move. Even if she wasn't serious, you just don't say that to a client and she obviously doesn't see you as one.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I guess I can see both sides of the story. 

Yours... You are a border and deserve the SAME treatment as every other boarder regardless of how you "pay". Barns are a working place, there are chores to be done because other pay for them to get done. I bet "amanda" wouldn't like it if her horse was late on feed or had to forgo 3 hours of turnout. Everyone needs to respect everyone else and treat people the way they want they want to be treated! 

On her side is it possible you maybe slipped her a little attitude? Even if its not directed at her its possible she could have seen it that way. Coupled with the fact that she is scared of her horse... Probably makes for a reactive mix. 

I think the BO should also give her a "talking to" about etiquette at the barn. It's not your fault her horse is a brat. You have just as much right to take your horse in and out as she does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I've been at reining barns that are way worse than any dressage barn... The place I'm at now is the most high end barn in the area and the people are very down to earth.

And the quip about Anky and rollkur - it has not actually been proven that rollkur is detrimental to the horse and the biomechanics studies I've seen actually prove the opposite. As well the original proponent of rollkur is French classical dressage master - Baucher.
But great job for reiterating hearsay - lucky Anky doesn't have lawyers out looking for those defaming her....
And just to add, I find it's usually the low level people in any sport who are very diva. At any high end barn, that behavior is not accepted or tolerated. 

Anyways. About your situation - it's not your place. If you no longer feel comfortable doing chores then tell the BO that. If you then can't afford board, find a new place to go. Otherwise, oh well. If you really want, you can let the BO know when people are rude to you or whatever, but really you have no authority to be making decisions or changes about someone else's barn. Same way the trainer may come off as wanting to control, you may come off that way to her.

Good luck!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

I've seen this kind of thing before when a trainer enters a boarding barn situation. Unfortunately MONEY TALKS and if this trainer is giving lessons, then she maintaining a grip on boarders for the BO. It's a cycle, BO needs you and the trainer, trainer needs BO, boarders need the trainer......you all need to learn to get along. Big girl panty time for all of you.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Anebel...not that this is the place to go in to it but I was not defaming Anky. She does use the method; it IS common in Germany and it IS losing favor in dressage circles....where is the defamation?

The practice has been banned by the FEI...


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

the BO, trainer and boarders are treating the OP, like hired help, basically becuase she IS hired help, being paid with a place to keep the horse. She really doesn thave any room to say or do much. ALl the schedules in the world arnt gonna do anything. The others will simply ignore them. Not really in any position to enforce anything. 
I would renegotiate my board contract and be a paying member and not worry about the chores.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

SlideStop said:


> On her side is it possible you maybe slipped her a little attitude? Even if its not directed at her its possible she could have seen it that way. Coupled with the fact that she is scared of her horse... Probably makes for a reactive mix.


 
Agreed.

Remember OP - you were already upset about your horse and unhappy the lessons times changed without prior notification - the attitude likely carried through when you spoke to Amanda. Add the heat of the week and most folks are probably a bit on the cranky side.

Also - reading through I pick up that you do not like or respect Mattie. If you have mentioned anything negative in passing to anyone at the barn, Mattie has been told - whether you like to believe it or not.

As has been stated - the trainers bring $ in. If it comes down to it, Mattie will stay and the BO will ask you to leave.

Be proactive - Request a lesson board with lesson times updated a minimum of 48 hours in advance so that everyone can work around them.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

tlkng1 said:


> Anebel...not that this is the place to go in to it but I was not defaming Anky. She does use the method; it IS common in Germany and it IS losing favor in dressage circles....where is the defamation?
> 
> The practice has been banned by the FEI...


Really? In Germany? Hmm...
As far as I know, at least in the circles I travel in, we try not to bad talk those who have attended half a dozen more Olympics than ourselves..
And yes, in the tone your post was in, that is defamation.
FEI was forced to release a statement due to media hysteria and has deemed postures achieved by force illegal in the FEI warm up, which is no change to the previous rules against aggression, and have put a time limit on extreme frames. 
I said it and will say it again, rollkur has not definitively been proven to be detrimental, or should I say, more detrimental than a competition frame. Any other statements regarding rolkur and Anky are hearsay, inflammatory and defaming.

This is a huge pet peeve of mine. ride in a few Olympics and win a few gold medals, and then have an opinion. The Netherlands are one of the biggest powers in Olympic sport and their training methods, regardless of who uses rolkur, have turned out many happy, healthy, sound, dressage horses who have competed until they age out at 18.

I'm also not the one who brought dressage bashing into the thread. Don't like it - don't make quips.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PattyAnn (Oct 9, 2012)

It appears that you are a part of a dysfunctional barn. The barn operates only as good as the business acumen of the owner. Staying there will frustrate you to where you won't even enjoy the time with your own horses...this seems to be the case now.

Find a small privately owned barn to board your horse. This will eliminate the chaos. Sometimes it is just easier to work elsewhere and pay for the board on your horse. All barns have dramas. Minimizing the impact on you is what it is all about. Rise above the gossip. Set a stellar example. People will talk, especially horse people. That is what they do. Don't get caught up in who said or did what. Hold reasonable boundaries and others will respect you for it. Be the first to hold the standards you seek.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

Let me offer the suggestion you don't want to hear: Forget it ever happened.

I'm an instructor at a small barn, and my boss does the same sort of thing you BO does. She knows she has to please her clients, because they bring in money. In my case, my boss knows she has to please the students. Mainly, the student's parents. Because of this, my boss is always telling me to do stuff I frankly think is absolutely _asinine_ to keep the student's parents happy. I HATE being told how to do my job. Being criticized by the students ignorant parents was one thing, but being criticized by my boss for not listening to said ignorant parents? The hell? :evil:

But working at a barn is a game. And you gotta play it. It often sucks, and the people around you are often _idiots_. I work in exchange for board on two horses, yet I'm not offered the same treatment as "normal paying" boarder are. 

But that's the way it is. Working for board is too good arrangement to not suck up my pride, bite my lip, and deal with it. Because being told what to do by stupid people gets me right in the pride every time. I'm in the most perfect situation realistically possible at the moment, even if it isn't perfect in every way. Think about your situation. Is making a scene really worth it when you could just quiet down and let everything return to normal?


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## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

You have a good point, Brighteyes. Actually, I've decided to just pretend it didn't happen and go on. I think I made the point quite clear to my barnowner, and I think she respects what I said. I have always been one of those people that just keeps my head down, and goes on. This time was just one too many though. But I will leave if it gets worse. No amount of money is worth my horse's happiness and my sanity. 

One of the poster's was right- my tone could have come off worse than I intended. And I would have gladly apologized if I'd even realized. I knew I had my temper reined in quite a bit, but it might have seeped through into my voice a bit. 

I do not, in fact, like Mattie the trainer. I hadn't heard of her before boarding there, and I knew that my riding instructor didn't favor her, but I never heard a bad word from my instructor about her. Just that she didn't favor her riding techniques. I decided to stay neutral (and stay out of it!) until Mattie insisted on telling all of her clients at the barn (as well as the barnowner) that my horse's breed was only made for driving, and that they were drafts originally bred for plowing. That one did sting a bit, as I had never talked to Mattie before, let alone given anyone a bad opinion of her. She's just that type of person. Personally, I hate drama, and stay far, far away from it if I can. Usually ignoring it does the trick, even though some comments sting. Far more so when they come from people that are old enough to be your mother...

While I can't see any possibility of giving up chores (I board 2 horses there, and just can't afford to do that), I think I will ask the barnowner if it'd be possible for Mattie to shoot us all a text message at least 24 hours before her lessons. That's a good idea. 

I'm really not one of those people that tries to control everything. Never have been. I'm more of a "tell me what to do, and I'll do it" type of person. I was told by another boarder (that's just as fed up with this crap as I am) that this barn used to be relaxed, easy-going, and fun. None of Mattie's other students have a problem with us moving horses around, thankfully. So maybe we can continue to go on as we always have, with them at least.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Like I said before Anebel this isn't the place to go into it and actually I wasn't going to respond back..but, a this point we have to agree to disagree and move on. Rolkur is a very controversial practice and is going to bring up heat on both sides. The comment about, ride in a few Olympics and get some gold medals before giving an opinion was flatly uncalled for. If that is a requirement to make any type of statement than technically no one on this board should be making any type of comment about training or anything else. So, agree to disagree and no more comment(s) on the subject of Rolkur.


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## Katzarr (Aug 15, 2012)

*Even if you have to work 2 jobs! you need to just pay board, and stop doing "c*

:-(hores" for the ungreatful Bs. Even if you have to work 2 QUOTE=TurkishVan;3142898]This may turn into a bit of a rant, so I apologize. I'll try to keep it as concise as possible. 

I have boarded at my current barn for a full year. I work off my board per a work agreement, and I'm at my barn every night for several hours, even when it's not "my night. I enjoy working at the barn, as working with horses relaxes me. 

Two people that board there take lessons with an instructor that we'll call "Mattie." This last winter, Mattie moved one of her lesson horses there. Mattie never does chores, as she has no work agreement with the barnowner. A few months ago, one of Mattie's other students came to board at this barn for the summer. This horse is BIG, and has been boarded there several times before. Usually short stints before taking off to go to a show (so, several weeks or so at one time). He has quite the reputation for having bad ground manners. Personally, I found that his owner, who we'll call "Amanda", an older(ish; maybe 60) woman with gobs of money, never tried to reinforce anything with him. If she doesn't get the response she wants, she stops trying. To make it worse, she only comes about twice a month to ride him in a lesson, and never comes to just see him. I've found that he's very smart, and once you get his attention by making him complete an action (though not with abuse, mind you), he listens up. So I have had no trouble handling him so far. 

The other morning (at 6 a.m.) I went out to complete chores for the horses, and to put my horses out to pasture. Mattie, the trainer, failed to inform us that she had moved her lessons to early in the morning, to avoid the afternoon heat. No big deal- we just work around them. 
I hurried to get my horse and another out before Amanda brought her big horse into the alley (it's a small barn, so there's no easy alternate ways to go other than through the alley). I found that my horse had had an accident, and ripped out a large portion of her tail. It really upset me, as we have a big show coming up. So it took me a bit longer to get her out of her stall, as I was assessing her for further injuries. Unfortunately, at that time, Amanda brought in her horse and tied him up in the crossties. I was unhappy about the tail issue, and said to Amanda, "I need to take my horse out. Do you mind moving him over a bit?" I said it in a fairly neutral voice. When she couldn't get him to step over, she decided to just walk him out, then turn around and take him back into the barn. Not a big deal. She didn't say anything else to me, and chatted with another lesson goer while tacking up her horse. 

Later that night, I was confronted by the barnowner (an older woman) who said that I had been rude to Amanda. The barnowner wanted to emphasize the importance of being a lesson barn, where people come to relax with horses. So she wanted us to discontinue any chores, or turnout of horses, while others were in the alleyway. (Apparently the horses behind the crossties did not get fed, get their stalls cleaned, etc. until the lessons were over, which was about 2-3 hours later.) The barnowner stated that Amanda was "mentally and physically shook up" by having to deal with that situation (moving her horse), as she had a hard time handling him. (Her horse was being as gentle as a kitten at the time- I kid you not.) At that point, I was so angry, I couldn't take anymore. I laughed and said, "Well, she'll have to deal with it!" Then all hell broke loose. The barnowner told me that I wasn't respecting the other boarders, and I stated that they were not respecting anyone else as a boarder. I told her that I pay board just like they do, and that I should have equal treatment. I said that I was sick of people bringing out their horses and leaving them alone in the crossties for 20 minutes, while they chatted with friends in the tack room, then tacked them up in 5 minutes and left. I tried to emphasize the fact that I was sorry if I had offended Amanda, but it's common courtesy to move your horse aside if another is coming through. If the situation arises again, the barn owner wants me to undo an electric fence, go through one gate, go through another horse's run, and then another gate to get my horse out of the barn. It's far more complicated, and once classes start up, I'll be rushing everything! She said I could do it that way or move my horse's stall (which one of Mattie's students has asked me to have, as it has a bigger run). I told her I didn't want my horse moved, and she said something about eviction. Though she stated right afterwards, "Now, I don't want to do that..." At which I stated I didn't want to leave. I think she depends on me too much for chores, as the other guy that does chores is already overloaded, and we're the only ones that do them. 

I really believe that the problem is Mattie. It's a very small barn, and over half of the horses and riders there are under her instruction. The barnowner tried to make excuses for them by saying, "If they were higher level dressage riders, they'd be even worse." In my opinion, they're inconsiderate enough as it is! The barnowner has also had a falling out with Mattie, as Mattie screamed at her after the barnowner asked about the type of hay to feed her horse. So the barnowner avoids Mattie at all costs, yet tries to please her at every turn. The barnowner blames Mattie's behavior on an old leg injury that Mattie sustained, that she is supposedly getting surgery for in December. (Though, and I quote, "She should be getting it now, but she's toughing it out so she can be with her students until the end of show season.") I've seen this woman walk absolutely perfectly fine when she thinks no one else is around watching, and I'm starting to think she's really bluffing it. Maybe a pain med addict? Who knows. With her explosive outbursts, I wouldn't put it past her... I just wish she wasn't such a problem!

I really do want to remain in this barn, as they give excellent care otherwise, and I can work off my board. That's not an option anywhere else. My horses and myself (for the most part) are happy there. The barnowner tried to joke with me afterwards and whatnot, and I was civil, but still wasn't happy about it. I put the blame back on Mattie (for not informing us of the lesson times), but I don't know how to get past this situation if it comes up again. They ALWAYS have lessons during chore time! The other guy that does chores has to be at work by 7 a.m., and I have to be there by 8. Neither of us can just sit around and wait until they're done. And we're both very tired in the evenings, and just want to get back home and out of the heat. Surely it's not right to sacrifice the health and happiness of the horse (what we're there for!) for the convenience of the rider?

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Anyway-these types, at least any I have ever experienced, will never groom their horses in the stall. They would not even consider it. THeir horses will not ground tie, and honestly-cross ties is al they know and can deal with......so many of their horses are just like described above. Rider cannot deal with horse, and only rides for lesson.
> 
> Again-I have nothing against dressage, but it does seem to me that there are more folks with this "entitled" attitude in that particular discipline than others I have been around. JMHO


I am one of those entitled jerks!!  We always groom on crossties - if the cross ties are busy we just wait. We also untack on crossties because we are serious bitches. I don't even know what a ground tie is.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

plomme said:


> I am one of those entitled jerks!!  We always groom on crossties - if the cross ties are busy we just wait. We also untack on crossties because we are serious bitches. I don't even know what a ground tie is.


Google is your friend. You can feel free to look it up.

Also being a "serious B", I make my horse behave without being tied, just because I can. I wait for noone. I ride when I can, and if I had to wait for folks to puts around and get done la di Da'ing while they groom I would be too frustrated to ride. Plus-this way, I know my horse is listening before I ever swing a leg over.

Don't get me wrong-he ties too......will stand there for hours if I ask, but I love that he will just stand there...while I go back and forth to the tack room, get what I need, put on my boots, helmet...whatever...and even after I start riding-if I get off to move a ground pole, etc......

To each there own, but for you to imply that because you cross tie you are more "serious"? Hmmm. Perhaps I misunderstood. Hope so.:wink:

Oh-and for the record-I did not use the word "jerk". You did. I did not do any name calling, just in case the mods are watching.....


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

After some time has passed and everyone has calmed down, perhaps you could suggest to the BO to put tie racks outside the barn . And with a 4 x4 post , a couple of hooks, you can set the post 4 ' tall, use the extra piece with an eye at one end and make a saddle holder near the tie racks. It keeps the Barn aisle clear , allows everyone access at all times. 
Ask the BO to post feeding times. Lessons etc can be scheduled around feeding times. 
Having the Barn Aisle clear is also a safety precaution, what would happen if there was a fire or an injured horse that required immediate attention, or one that was cast ?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

plomme said:


> I am one of those entitled jerks!!  We always groom on crossties - if the cross ties are busy we just wait. We also untack on crossties because we are serious bitches. I don't even know what a ground tie is.


Well heck you'd never get on where I've worked and boarded......but then again I'm not an entitled jerk am I?:wink: 

Ground tie - stand there, don't move, have manners......lead rope on but untied or not on at all.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

"I've been at reining barns that are way worse than any dressage barn... The place I'm at now is the most high end barn in the area and the people are very down to earth."


Anebel say it isn't so? I've NEVER run my horse up the butt of a dressage horse ever:wink: And they all use our sliding tracks like trotting poles don't ya know? :rofl:


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## Katzarr (Aug 15, 2012)

Even if you have to take a 2nd part time Job; I would go ahead and pay full board. Just to avoid things like this. it is not worth the money saved to go thru this; even if you only have pasture, stall; and you come out and feed twice daily, it is better than what you are going thru.; life is too short.; enjoy time with your horse. The more people I meet, the more I love my HORSE!(s), ; PS. I own/run a boarding stables in Texas; have 16 of my own. Again, Life is way too short to put up with people BS> <3


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Google is your friend. You can feel free to look it up.
> 
> Also being a "serious B", I make my horse behave without being tied, just because I can. I wait for noone. I ride when I can, and if I had to wait for folks to puts around and get done la di Da'ing while they groom I would be too frustrated to ride. Plus-this way, I know my horse is listening before I ever swing a leg over.
> 
> ...


I was just joking, don't worry. I did not take offense at your post, I was poking fun at myself and how our stable works. By serious brats I meant like huge brats, not that we are very serious.


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

Muppetgirl said:


> Well heck you'd never get on where I've worked and boarded......but then again I'm not an entitled jerk am I?:wink:
> 
> Ground tie - stand there, don't move, have manners......lead rope on but untied or not on at all.


Wow, I've never seen that. Very impressive. I'm quite sure my horse would just stand there but I would never take the chance just in case I'm wrong.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

plomme said:


> Wow, I've never seen that. Very impressive. I'm quite sure my horse would just stand there but I would never take the chance just in case I'm wrong.


Which is why you train them. They are not supposed to move even a step, because one leads to 2, leads to "I am out of here......".:wink:

I also like to groom outside when it is nice-that way I don't have to sweep up when I am done. :lol:


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

A loose horse is my greatest fear! I think *I'm* the real problem in that equation. A close relative's horse recently got loose and was killed (he jumped a fence) and after watching that devastation I am just paranoid.


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## GottaQH (Jul 15, 2013)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> I've been at reining barns that are way worse than any dressage barn... The place I'm at now is the most high end barn in the area and the people are very down to earth.
> 
> And the quip about Anky and rollkur - it has not actually been proven that rollkur is detrimental to the horse and the biomechanics studies I've seen actually prove the opposite. As well the original proponent of rollkur is French classical dressage master - Baucher.
> But great job for reiterating hearsay - lucky Anky doesn't have lawyers out looking for those defaming her....
> ...


It's obvious that rollkur is abusive.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

GottaQH said:


> It's obvious that rollkur is abusive.


By that logic, so are curb bits and western saddles and sacking out and tying around and sliding stops and spins and rowel spurs. Shall I continue?

If you would like to have an opinion about something, ride to that level first. I know a cathedral bit isn't abusive, but it sure looks awful to an outsider.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesMyDunnBoy (Aug 11, 2011)

I think everyone should remember the subject of this thread. I don't even know how the subject of Rollkur came up (and I don't care to know) but the question of this thread is what the OP should do with her boarding situation. 

If you want to discuss Rollkur, start your own thread and I'm sure forum members would be more than happy to input their opinion there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I would prefer not to discuss rolkur, personally.
It was brought up in a menacing way and personally I don't agree with discipline bashing. Or in judging things you don't understand. And there are a few posters on this thread who seem to be quite anti dressage. If they want to spew their views elsewhere, they're welcome to
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LovesMyDunnBoy (Aug 11, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> I would prefer not to discuss rolkur, personally.
> It was brought up in a menacing way and personally I don't agree with discipline bashing. Or in judging things you don't understand. And there are a few posters on this thread who seem to be quite anti dressage. If they want to spew their views elsewhere, they're welcome to
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wasn't targeting any specific person. I personally love dressage. I was speaking to everyone as a whole, I meant to clarify that in my original post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

People need to take a couple of these....










Let's save the rollkur debate to one of the countless threads on that already. This is a thread about a different issue.

As for discipline bashing. One does not argue about bashing dressage by bashing reining. A bash is a bash and it all should stop.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

I board at a lesson barn that caters mostly to disabled people. Our board is the cheapest in the area because of the many lessons we have to ride around. Hopefully everyone else will have the maturity to either discuss this with you personally, or do what you did and forget about it and move on.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I'd start looking for alternative boarding options myself.

At every barn I have ever boarded at -- and it's been quite a lot in two different countries over the years, many of them dressage barns -- it is absolutely standard operating procedure that if your horse is tied or cross-tied in such a manner that it is blocking a passageway, you move it if someone else needs to bring another horse past. No barn owner/manager I know would give someone flack for asking the owner of a tied horse to move it out of the way. Nor would they expect anyone to hang out and wait for the owner of the cross-tied horse to finish grooming and tacking up. If the owner who was getting asked to move their horse got their panties in a wad over such a request (I have never known anyone to do this, mind you), I am sure various BOs I have had would regard it as that person's problem, not the problem of the owner who just wanted to take their horse out of its stall. I don't think I would want to board at a barn where such daft behaviour was enabled. 

Also, the trainer slagging off your horse to her students...not impressive. On one hand, you love your horse and it shouldn't matter what some bellend says about her. On the other hand, it's thoroughly unprofessional behaviour and doesn't really contribute to a nice, friendly barn atmosphere.


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## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

I guess I should post the most recent event that happened yesterday. 
Went to put out Amanda's horse in a small turnout yesterday morning. As I said before, I try to act big with him, so he usually behaves with me. Unfortunately the weather was cool, and the other horses were frisky, and galloping back and forth in a nearby pasture. I was trying to remove his halter when they ran by, and he started to prance. I put it back on to give him a "pay attention!" shake, but he could have cared less. Said 17 hand horse proceeded to push me into the electric fence, and nothing I could do stopped him, as he continued to prance, rear, buck, etc. I was like a fly on the wall to him. It went against my very nature to do it, but I just unsnapped the lead rope and let him go inside the (very small) turnout. He took off at a gallop. I did NOT want to get squashed by someone else's horse, or electrocuted by the fence (which is VERY hot). 

Went to help get him in later that afternoon (because the woman that took the other horses in is scared to death of him). I let my boyfriend get Amanda's horse, as I had forgotten my boots. My boyfriend has experience with horses, and went in the turnout with the leadrope. Amanda's horse galloped towards him. I thought he'd pull a sliding stop, but nope! My boyfriend acted big, shook his hands and the leadrope in front of him, but that didn't accomplish anything. If my boyfriend hadn't jumped out of the way (and almost into the electric fence himself), he would have been charged over. The horse seemed to think it was great fun.

Needless to say, I too have finally given up handling this horse. I told the BO that I wasn't comfortable handling him anymore, even though I am. But honestly, why risk my safety with a poorly trained horse that isn't mine? If I get hurt, it's myself and my horses that will suffer. I figure this might be a wake-up call to Amanda that her horse needs a lot more ground training. The BO was a bit put-out that I refused to handle him, and said she'd "do it herself" and take a whip with her. I feel guilty letting this old woman try to handle him, but I honestly cannot afford to get hurt. I'm a graduate student on a very limited income (and have no time to get any first, let alone second, jobs!), with very limited insurance. I feel like this horse may actually seriously hurt someone if nothing is done to teach him some ground manners. It is completely the BO's call on this one, but I know I'm not the only one that wishes this horse would leave.

So really, I understand why Amanda would fear this horse, but she needs to DO something about it. As it is, she's been denying that he has any problem whatsoever. She actually came that afternoon (one of her rare visits) before we brought horses in. The BO told her what had happened that morning, and Amanda began to get angry and blame it on her horse's halter, that she stated was on too tight. In fact, it was set the same that it'd always been, which is a good fit (we just fasten the chin strap underneath the jaw, and leave the top alone). It just made me angry that she refused to see the danger of her horse's behavior, and instead tried to blame it on the equipment.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Unfortunately I don't see the owner changing her mind until such a time as she manages to put the horse out or bring him in herself..even then she sounds like the type who will blame the barn saying they ruined him or did something to make him that way.

I know if a horse was dangerous I would have the owner remove him/her regardless of the loss in board. It isn't worth having yourself, or the staff, injured by a horse the owner refuses to see needs more and better training. If I couldn't handle the training myself (either as owner, barn manager etc), I'd darned well find someone who could. I would actually pass on a horse I liked if I felt it could be a danger to the other horses, barn staff or kids that run around our barn.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

To get back to the original topic, it's your barn owners property, so I vote for them. 

You choose to pay them as a vendor, if you don't like how they run things then you move. Their property, their rules. same with my house, and likely yours.

Not having somewhere else to move to, does not make it ok to try to change their rules. 

It's simple to me, you work within BO's rules, or you move somewhere else or buy your own land.


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## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

AlexS said:


> To get back to the original topic, it's your barn owners property, so I vote for them.
> 
> You choose to pay them as a vendor, if you don't like how they run things then you move. Their property, their rules. same with my house, and likely yours.
> 
> ...


Well, thankfully we do have our own farm, but it's too far away, so that is the last resort. 

I guess I was looking more for advice on how to negotiate with the BO about the sudden rule switch. "Get over it" or "move" seems to be a popular answer, but not really what I'm looking for. And just to clarify, I'm not looking to "take over" the barn. I understand that it's the BO's barn, and I have no desire to run it, as it seems you're implying. I simply want to get along with everyone, without it taking 4 hours to do chores. I apologize if my posts made it seem that way, or if I appeared to be whining. I'm naturally a calm person that doesn't create drama, so I don't usually have to deal with dramatic people (i.e., I don't know how to handle these kinds of situations at times). 

In conclusion, I can't wait to buy my own place someday! Boarding horses is more stressful than it should be.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

TurkishVan said:


> In conclusion, I can't wait to buy my own place someday! Boarding horses is more stressful than it should be.


Agreed. 

then just talk to her. Put your thoughts in writing first, if that helps. Organize them into a logical order, read over the notes a few times, and then go talk to the BO. 
be prepared that it might not go as you are hoping though.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> And just to add, I find it's usually the low level people in any sport who are very diva.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is so true!!!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

BO has to decide how much she wants to do barn chores if you leave. Good barn help is hard to find. I'd chose the good barn help over anything else, especially with a waiting list. I'll bet the BO can take a holiday confident that the horses will be properly cared for.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If you spend 4 hours on chores, that is quite a lot of work. You could be spending that time working another job. You could take the money and pay board. Or you could take the money and use it to make land payments if you live somewhere that you plan to stay. If you are boarding two horses, you could take one back to your family farm and only pay board for one. There are lots of choices.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

update?


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Legally, the BO owns the property, so she can tell you to leave if she wishes it. Doesn't sound like a great place. I say look around for another facility. EVEN IF this one is closer or has better turnout or has a better indoor/outdoor arena, you'll be miles ahead without both the attitudes, lack of schedule posting--VERY BAD BUSINESS MODEL--and mystery injuries to your horse.


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