# Pneumonia, heaves or heart failure?



## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

HI there. My name is Angela and my best friend, Khaiyaann (which is pronounced "Cayenne") is a 25 year old Arabian gelding. He is the sweetest, gentlest, most affectionate horse I've ever known, and I'm so lucky to have him!

He had been very healthy and robust. I was riding him almost daily and he responded to exercise very well... Until last December. I took him to Florida for the winter, where I would be working, because there was no one to care for him at home. I found a suitable stable 10 minutes away from my rental, so away we went AFTER he had a vet check and all of his vaccinations.

Upon arrival, my big boy seemed very ill. His eyes were heavy lidded, swollen and weepy. His temp was 100.9 rectally. I could tell that he just didn't feel well at all, so he stayed in the stable for 5 days until he started to feel better. And then it was time to explore his new surroundings!

We were in Florida for 3 months, and we're home now. He lost a LOT of weight while he was there and developed a clear nasal discharge which he never had before. Despite my best efforts at plumping him up while in Florida, he didn't gain any weight at all. I tried soaked beet pulp, great pasture, triple crown senior feed and corn syrup on his feed.

Now that we're home I'm around him all the time, much more so than back in Florida because he's here at home with me. He went into respiratory crisis about a month after being home. I called my vet and she came out. He had "crackles and wheezes" throughout his lungs, a dry cough, an elevated respiratory rate, and clear nasal discharge, but not much of a fever. She diagnosed him as having COPD and gave him Bactrim (just in case of infection), prednisone, albuterol, and trihist. After 4 days on this regimen he seemed to improve.

He gained his weight back rather quickly! But after about a month he started developing his symptoms again, only this time with difficulty breathing on top of the other symptoms. I panicked and called my vet but she couldn't make it, so I called a different vet and he did make it. He thought my big boy had an infection, so we gave another round of Bacrtim, and after about 5 days my boy started to improve. And all was well.

We've been home for a little more than 3 months now and just recently he went into another a terrible crisis. My friend's vet was just down the street and she could come quickly, so another new vet checked him out. Same symptoms. Difficulty breathing, clear nasal discharge, crackles and wheezed throughout all lung fields, shortness of breath, and a terrible persistent cough but temp was 100.9. She did an echocardiogram right there in my barnyard because of his loud heart murmur. She said that he has a grade 5/6 diastolic murmur - aortic regurgitation. She said his lungs were very moist. She spoke to me about putting him doen, but I just couldn't do it at that time. I was devastated. She thinks its his heart - going into congestive heart failure. We started him on enalapril, lasix, and also an antibiotic (naxcel) due to my concern over a lingering infection that started after long transport (975 miles) into a totally different climate.

Over the next 48 hours he showed ~significant~ improvement. His cough was gone completely, he was not short of breath at all, but he was still tired. He received injectable Naxcel for the first 2 days and then he was switched over to bactrim by mouth. After about 72 hours on Bactrim, he started to show signs of shortness of breath again. I called her out and she started him on Naxcel again (upon my insistence) and he will keep getting it for the next 8 days.

So... I read on the internet that horses often do FINE with even severe heart murmurs. All of the literature that I can find says that murmurs usually are not fatal for horses. So I'm perplexed... I want to believe that his crises have been caused by a lingering pneumonia and NOT by heart failure.

Today he is doing very well. No cough at all, no shortness of breath. He is bright and prancing, nickering for his feed! He is not on steroids now, or an antihistamine for COPD and hasn't been for 2 months. But he is on enalapril, lasix and naxcel.

Has anyone out there experienced anything similar to this? I'm hoping for some advice or perhaps some ideas? I love him SO much. He's a part of my family, not just a "pet." Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
I have pictures of Khaiyaann (Cayenne) on my profile, so please check him out! He's 25 1/2 years old now.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Hmm I'm not much help but we recently had a pony at my barn that got pneumonia so much that it eventually made it extremely hard to breathe as it had hardened all of the broncheal tubes, I think that's what they are called, whatever they breathe from. Anyway, because it was left for so long eventually she had to be put down. 

How long has he been on antibiotics at one time? Maybe he needs meds for twice as long to fully clear an infection.

Also my mare was recently diagnosed with a heart murmur of 1-2/6 so barely noticeable. My vet said that I would only need to worry if it was closer to a 4 or 5. To me he seemed to describe it as a potentially deadly problem. But again allergies and her bronchitis was possibly making her heart murmur more present. 

I would at least call different vets that specialize in this and get their opinion then decide what to do.

Edit: I don't mean to scare you, I have just seen what happens when an infection isn't fully taken care of. If that is indeed his case. I would also probably get a full blood panel done to make sure there isn't anything else going on.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Welcome to the forum. Your gelding is very pretty ..

I agree with poppy .. keep after your vet, or a new vet, to get the test that can tell you what's going on .. or at least rule out infection.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Did she hear the murmur with your horse at rest & did she check to see if it was still there after /during exercise? Many horses have a murmur that is not heard during work, those I believe, are nothing to worry about.
I see she did an echo. Did she do it at rest & after work? 

Does your horse have any leg or belly edema/swelling? ( Note that belly edema is more common in hot weather, especially in oldsters). CHF would lead to generalized edema. Any frothy nasal discharge?

Has blood been drawn? If there is an infection, like pneumonia or chronic bronchitis it will show in blood work (WBC, differentials etc.). Arterial blood gases would show the amount oxygen & carbon dioxide (CO2) in the blood & can tell you how well the heart is working. 

I can't believe a vet who only saw your horse one time would discuss euthanasia without being asked.

It seems to me that your horse has responded to some treatments that cover a wide variety of illnesses so I understand your frustration. 
If he has CHF he would not have gotten better with antibiotics & if he has pneunomia he would not have improved with lasix alone.

Is there a vet hospital or large clinic near you? They would be able to give you a definite diagnosis.

I hope all works out for you & your lovely horse.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Youyr boy is beautiful, I hope he will be OK.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Thank you both for the replies, and THANKS for the compliments on his good looks! Like I said, I got lucky! I bought a "fixer upper" house with a small amount of acreage which housed FIVE horses, and he was one of them. They were being kept in a tiny round pen, no grass, living in their own mire literally knee deep. Their legs sank in the manure up to their knees. He was being starved to death and every bone in his body was visible. SO when I purchased I did so on One condition - that they let me keep Khaiyaann. My property is just too small for more than one horse, otherwise I would have tried for the others as well. 

I'm sorry that I failed to mention the blood panels that were done. He did have a full chemistry panel from the second vet, and the third vet (that I think I'll keep) did a troponin level (a cardiac enzyme). His organs are all doing well (kidney, liver etc) but his heart enzyme was elevated. We didn't to a white blood cell count because he was being put on antibiotics anyway. I have to pick and choose right now because this type pf veterinary care is VERY expensive and I can't afford much more - I'm poor but proud! I have a $10,500 Arab quite by accident. He's registered (freeze branded on his neck with his registry number) so I contacted his breeders and that's how I know what he sold for at 3 years old. He knows dressage and I don't!

I just keep praying that maybe this infection is making his heart worse right now, and that it'll get better? He is going to remain on antibiotics for 3 weeks solid now. His troponin wasn't very high, just mildly elevated. I worry every day that I'll get home and find him dead... Or that he'll go into another crisis. When I lost my husband a year ago, my horse saved my life. I grieved so badly, and I still grieve, and he knows it. He insisted on interacting, going riding, etc by pitching a fit if we didn't! He kept me active and outside. Then I lost my dog 6 months ago - she died at 14.5 years old. He isn't well enough to insist on riding now, but he loves to go for walks and he waits at the gate for me.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Wow you've had a rough year. I really hope he gets better. Have you tried just calling and getting consultations over the phone with different vets? Maybe you can get different opinions from the vet and decide which option you want next? But I'm hoping those antibiotics help him.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Hi Natisha,
Your questions are good ones!
No she didn't check his murmur at rest and after work because he was short of breath and unable to work. His nasal discharge is clear, not frothy. He doesn't have any edema or jugular vein distention at this time. I wish i could afford an arterial blood gas, but I simply can't. To date his care has been about $1000 with meds not included. There is a good equine hospital here, associated with a university, and I've looked into checking him in, but I don't have enough money. The vet who did the echo consulted an equine cardiologist at the university, and that's how my big boy was put on enalapril - an ACE inhibitor. The cardiologist said he thought perhaps Khaiyaann could maintain for months??? I wanted to get a betanatriuretic peptide (BNP) drawn but we can't find a lab to process it for horses? Why that would be, I have no idea. 

Yes I am very frustrated and very frightened. I know that if COPD is causing this, then I have to move him to a place where there's more grass so i can get him off hay before it gets so bad that he can't recover. However, my vet said since his heart enzyme is elevated I shouldn't stress him by moving him. ??? 

I've insisted on long term coverage with the antibiotic that he seems to respond to best. So I have that covered, and naxcel is very expensive. I'm a nurse (a LPN - otherwise known as "low paid nurse") so I give him the injections myself. 

My big concern is that either pneumonia or COPD (or my worst nightmare BOTH) could potentially worsen his heart condition? And how do I distinguish between these issues? How do I prioritize these conditions and choose the best answers in the best sequence? My vet did check out the hay I give him and she said it was high quality - locally grown, fresh, green. I can't afford triple crown forage. I tried that but his vet bills are mounting and he may need more visits so...


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Not good news but the copd is what is causing the heart problems. When he's having difficulting breathing his heart is begging for more oxygen and working overtime. His lungs are inflamed and that is why he responds to prednisone and maybe the weight gain. With copd (chronic obstructive) means the swollen lungs have difficult getting rid of carbon dioxide. With co2 remaining in the lung tissue, there is less absorption of oxygen. Speak to an good equine vet about the use of an Aeromask. This puts the medication more directly to the lungs and is administered by puffer. Some respond fairly well to Ventolin altho the heart beats a little faster. Others respond to Atrovent which has a bit of a drying effect ie reducing the fluid. There are also steroids which can be administered with the mask. In cases like this it is better to not allow the horse to get tubby as he will work harder to breathe. Google Aeromask and see if this might be something you are willing to try. forgot to mention - copd invariably means lung infections / pneumonia. The animal can become extremely sensitive to mold spores, so this is something you need to be mindful of in wet conditions.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Thank you for the suggestions about the aeromask. I've discussed the use of steroids with my vet too, but she said that steroids will suppress his immune system, and if he has pneumonia, we shouldn't suppress his body's natural response... Maybe if he inhales the steroids it will not suppress his immune system as much as oral steroids would?

We also discussed albuterol and ipratroprium as bronchodilators... I thought it would be a good idea but she said we shouldn't give him anything to elevate his heart rate due to the aortic regurgitation?

I do think this all started with some kind of respiratory infection. 

I'm going to consult a few more vets and see how they would prioritize his treatment. I'm so emotionally involved I can't think clearly. If it's COPD I can move him to grass pasture (board him) but if it's his heart then the stress of moving him could kill him... OMG I'm so confused.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Our area is very dry right now. Do you think I should try packaged forage instead of the locally grown hay that I've been giving him?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Me and Smiling Horse said:


> Our area is very dry right now. Do you think I should try packaged forage instead of the locally grown hay that I've been giving him?


Your vet said the hay is fine. If you're worried about dust spray it down before feeding.
You're a nurse. Nurses don't like dealing with any patient without a proper diagnosis( guess how I know that?:wink

Maybe you could try this? Gather up all the information, from all the vets, put together a chronological chart & give it to one vet that you want to work with. Ask that vet to send the information to the big vet hospital & have them look it over & see what they say. They may charge you but it shouldn't be too much.


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## Linzee (May 15, 2012)

I am so sorry for your issues!! They sound terrible! My friend is dealing with a recent diagnosis of COPD in her horse (which I am also very close to) and we are currently trying to find a way to manage it. I couldn't imagine dealing with a heart issue well. 

Is it possible that the Lasix was what made him so much better? Because if he has CHF and/or pneumonia that would help get the fluid off. Then the heart murmur might just be made worse by the excess fluid. Have you had the murmur reassessed since starting the Lasix and ACE? (I also feel your pain in the nursing department.. Sometimes ignorance is bliss!!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Hey Natisha,
That's an AWESOME idea! I haven't put together a chronological chart yet and I've had different vets each time so the continuity isn't there. Plus, as time goes on, keeping records just for myself to keep things straight will be good too. I hadn't thought of a "review consult" and it should be a lot cheaper...
Thanks so much!
Angela


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Linzee said:


> I am so sorry for your issues!! They sound terrible! My friend is dealing with a recent diagnosis of COPD in her horse (which I am also very close to) and we are currently trying to find a way to manage it. I couldn't imagine dealing with a heart issue well.
> 
> Is it possible that the Lasix was what made him so much better? Because if he has CHF and/or pneumonia that would help get the fluid off. Then the heart murmur might just be made worse by the excess fluid. Have you had the murmur reassessed since starting the Lasix and ACE? (I also feel your pain in the nursing department.. Sometimes ignorance is bliss!!)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He did show significant improvement within 24 hours of starting the enalapril, lasix and naxcel. I'm hoping that his heart murmur/condition has been greatly exacerbated by some lingering infection because, if that's the case, his long term prognosis is better as long as we give him the right antibiotics long enough.

And a recheck echo is an AWESOME idea too because it would help me either relax a bit and stop worrying myself sick, or brace myself for another loss - whichever is appropriate.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

WOW I can't thank everyone enough who has replied to my post. I'm new to this forum and the support I've found is... healing. I've sustained some serious losses over the last year, and with Khaiyaann being so so sick... I feel like I can't breathe. He's breathing better now, but I'm not!

Well, I just wanted to thank everyone. I live alone now, and I really appreciate the support I've found here.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Here's an update. 

My vet was out again today (Yes, on the 4th of July) and she consulted with the specialists (pulmonologist and cardiologist) at the equine hospital at a local university. They do not think my horse has heaves, thank God! And this is the official opinion of 4 veterinarians who all got together to review and discuss Khaiyaann's condition. They said that he would have a lot of wheezing in his lungs if it was COPD, but during the last 4 exams he had no wheezing at all.

They think he went into congestive heart failure due to pneumonia. I guess he had a lingering low grade respiratory infection ever since I transported him, and it just got worse and worse over time. I wish the first vet who treated him would have diagnosed him with pneumonia instead of COPD, and started him on more aggressive antibiotic therapy - it would have saved my big boy a potentially life threatening crisis, and saved me a lot of money! I even called her 3 days into his therapy and questioned his poor response, and she told me that "it'll just take time, so relax." What really makes me upset is that, when the first vet examined my big boy, he had crackles throughout his lungs, and some minor/occasional wheezes. She said the crackles weren't indicative of pneumonia.

Well, now 4 other vets say that crackles ARE indicative of fluid in the lungs and are associated with pneumonia or pulmonary edema, NOT with COPD/heaves. 

The good news is that the pneumonia was pushing him into fluid overload and hurting his heart, and now that we're on the right track treating his pneumonia AND his heart condition, he is steadily improving!!! He will be on antibiotics for weeks to come, but that's ok. He was galloping through the pasture today just as happy as could be!!!

As for his heart murmur at grade 5/6... they say that's not good.  BUT he is responding very well to the lasix and the enalapril. When his antibiotic therapy is finished we're going to reassess the murmur.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Well yay thats great news! Sorry you had to go through all those vets though. He is so pretty I hope he makes a full recovery.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I don't know if anyone suggested this, but if you soak his hay for about 15 minutes before giving it to him, it would greatly cut down on the spores getting into his nostrils. My friend had an Arabian who developed heaves later in his life, and soaking the hay made a big difference in managing the symptoms.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

MyBoyPuck said:


> I don't know if anyone suggested this, but if you soak his hay for about 15 minutes before giving it to him, it would greatly cut down on the spores getting into his nostrils. My friend had an Arabian who developed heaves later in his life, and soaking the hay made a big difference in managing the symptoms.


Yes, the first vet who came out suggested that I soak his hay and I did. He doesn't seem too enthusiastic about it though. He doesn't want to eat it. Then the next 2 vets inspected my hay and said that it was high quality - local, fresh cut, and green. I get some every cutting and it's grown 1/2 mile down my street.

But ya know, even though this isn't heaves, every little bit helps... I might try soaking his hay again and see if he'll eat it better?


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Hunter65 said:


> Well yay thats great news! Sorry you had to go through all those vets though. He is so pretty I hope he makes a full recovery.


Thanks! I do too! I was so encouraged when he galloped through his pasture today!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

That is wonderful news. I suspect the murmur is no big deal as he is running around. 
Please continue with the updates, though I suspect they wiill all be good.
Can I ask what kind of trailer he was hauled in? Was he able to lower his head? I'm guessing he had shipping fever.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

nevermind... missed the update!


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

natisha said:


> That is wonderful news. I suspect the murmur is no big deal as he is running around.
> Please continue with the updates, though I suspect they wiill all be good.
> Can I ask what kind of trailer he was hauled in? Was he able to lower his head? I'm guessing he had shipping fever.


I had him professionally transported in a large side loader, and I don't think he was allowed to have his head down for long.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Me and Smiling Horse said:


> I had him professionally transported in a large side loader, and I don't think he was allowed to have his head down for long.


Mention that to your vet, it could matter.
How is your boy today?


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm so happy to say that his temp is 100.7 rectally, but it's also 94 degrees outside with high humidity! that's SO much better than before! His cough is gone, the vet said just a few traces of crackles left in his right lung - left is now clear!!! He seems brighter, has a springier step, and is back to nickering for his mash etc! I cut back the lasix to 1/3 of what he was getting due to the high heat index and the potential for dehydration. 

He's getting Excede (extended release naxcel) and he seems to be responding to it nicely! I'm so grateful and relieved!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Me and Smiling Horse said:


> I'm so happy to say that his temp is 100.7 rectally, but it's also 94 degrees outside with high humidity! that's SO much better than before! His cough is gone, the vet said just a few traces of crackles left in his right lung - left is now clear!!! He seems brighter, has a springier step, and is back to nickering for his mash etc! I cut back the lasix to 1/3 of what he was getting due to the high heat index and the potential for dehydration.
> 
> He's getting Excede (extended release naxcel) and he seems to be responding to it nicely! I'm so grateful and relieved!


As a nurse you probably know that lasix can deplete potassium which can effect heart function, so it's good to decrease it if you can.
I'm so glad he's doing well.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

I'm so happy that he's doing so well . He sounds like he's back to loving life. He's such a handsome boy.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Dear Natisha,
Yes, I know about the K+ depletion asscoaited with loop diuretics. I aske dmy vet about it and she said, believe it or not, to get some salt substitute (not real salt) and offer it to him! She said it's made of potassium chloride.  But ya know... I'm cutting back that lasix. It' SO hot outside and his lung are basically clear now...


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Me and Smiling Horse said:


> Dear Natisha,
> Yes, I know about the K+ depletion asscoaited with loop diuretics. I aske dmy vet about it and she said, believe it or not, to get some salt substitute (not real salt) and offer it to him! She said it's made of potassium chloride.  But ya know... I'm cutting back that lasix. It' SO hot outside and his lung are basically clear now...


I do not wish to be the bearer of bad news, but part of the reason that his lungs are clear is because of the lasix. I have trouble conveying this to the owners of my small animal patients who are in congestive heart failure. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that this was just a very severe case of pneumonia but if you cut back on his diuretic please do so under the guidance of your vet so you can make sure he doesn't develop pulmonary edema again. If it is heart failure, the more times we allow the edema to develop, the harder it is to get things managed again.

I honestly am not trying to be a pill and I REALLY hope things go well with him, but with how rapid his response was to the meds I fear the worst. Pneumonia does not generally respond to antibiotics so quickly so I am worried it was the edema responding to the lasix. I will keep my fingers crossed that he does well as you back off on the diuretics.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Yes I do understand that and I appreciate your advice. We had him on a strong dose of furosemide twice daily, but with the 102 degree weather and his lungs are essentially clear except for faint crackled in the right lung, my vet said its ok to decrease by half and see how he does. 

I'm SO hoping and Praying that his pneumonia was exacerbating his aortic insufficiency.... That would mean we would have more time together... More time than if his primary issue was CHF. His fever is down and the clear nasal discharge that turned rust colored have FINALLY gone away so I know he had an infection.

I know denial isn't a river in Egypt... And my hope of being with him another year may leave me crying...

Thanks for your post and I hope you continue to offer your wisdom. We aren't finished by a long shot. We have follow up labs, exams and imaging coming up in the near future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

tealamutt said:


> I do not wish to be the bearer of bad news, but part of the reason that his lungs are clear is because of the lasix. I have trouble conveying this to the owners of my small animal patients who are in congestive heart failure. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that this was just a very severe case of pneumonia but if you cut back on his diuretic please do so under the guidance of your vet so you can make sure he doesn't develop pulmonary edema again. If it is heart failure, the more times we allow the edema to develop, the harder it is to get things managed again.
> 
> I honestly am not trying to be a pill and I REALLY hope things go well with him, but with how rapid his response was to the meds I fear the worst. Pneumonia does not generally respond to antibiotics so quickly so I am worried it was the edema responding to the lasix. I will keep my fingers crossed that he does well as you back off on the diuretics.


Are you a vet? If so that's AWESOME!  
The only thing that makes me wonder about how he improved so quickly on naxcel, enalapril and lasix... We gave a very high dose of naxcel (20ml) IM twice daily, and started the enalapril at the same time. I didn't have the lasix on hand and she had to call it in, so we didn't actually start the lasix until the following day, and he had already shown significant improvement by the time I got the lasix home. Yes I understand that's a very quick response for pneumonia... AND I've read that enalapril's gastric absorption in equines is dubious at best.... So.... I dunno. I'm not a vet. But by the time I got the lasix home his cough was 1/4 of what it had been - and believe me, it was BAD. He was pitiful and I thought he was going to die.

I can't help but wonder about how he has responded to bactrim and naxcel. He did seem to improve ~slowly~ the 3 times he was on bactrim, BUT the cough and malaise came back after a few weeks. Then he was given high doses of naxcel and he showed improvement, but when switched over to bactrim again he started to decline... So I guess there must be some bacteria that are susceptible to bactrim, but MORE susceptible to naxcel. That's about all I can think of that would explain it.

I'm not trying to discount his heart condition. I give him his medicine faithfully and we go for walks now instead of rides... I don't stress him in any way. But I do feel very encouraged to that he's galloping through the pasture now when it's time for his triple crown senior! Man that stuff is like crack for horses!  And he seems to tolerate galloping now. Before he couldn't even walk with me without gasping for breath.  

So, do you have any thoughts about the antibiotic issue? And what do you think about excede (extended release naxcel) maintaining a high enough serum concentration for the duration of treatment?


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Well the fact that he had improved before lasix was on board is very encouraging! Yes, I am a vet and it is sometimes awesome  I like Exede, it is still new and needs some more clinical studies but it is a very promising drug. I also missed the part where he had responded while on Bactrim initially, also an encouraging detail! However you slice it, he is feeling better and that is a good thing. I also have an older gentleman gelding so I know how it is to worry about a senior horse. As he gets up there in years things like this always scare me and make me wonder if I'm going to have to make a hard decision. Please keep us updated on how things go.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

*UPDATE advice please for TEMP*

Well... Khaiyaann had been doing great on the naxcel and then the excede (which is nothing but naxcel extended release). Yesterday he free lunged around me of his own accord, and today he galloped through his pasture again without any shortness of breath or jugular vein pulse/distention.

BUT tonight his temp is 101.6 rectally, and that worries me. It has been hot here, up to 104 F today, but tonight it's 85 F and humid. It was just as hot yesterday and his rectal temp was only 100.6 F.

Otherwise he's acting fine - no cough, no shortness of breath, good appetite too. 

I guess I'm worried because I read that excede may not maintain serum levels at therapeutic range?

So do you guys think this temp is something to worry about?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

The normal is up to 101. As he's only slightly above that I'd keep an eye on it & hose him down to keep him cool. Listerine baths will help cool him too. 
If he goes over 102 notify your vet. Bute & banamine are good anti-pyretics (fever reducers) but I wouldn't give any unless the vet says to.

You may want to keep a chart of his temps to see if he follows any pattern (lower in AM than PM for example).


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Today my vet suggested that I keep a chart of his temps, just as you suggested!  

She said that horses will often run a temperature at night but be ok in the morning - called biphasic. She thinks it's only mildly elevated too, but today we decided to cover him for another 5 days with antibiotics - this time penicillin and gentamycin. She said his age is a factor, and that every time this reoccurs it comes back worse than before, so we're gonna hit him hard with medicine and hopefully this won't come back!


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

*UPDATE need opinions please*

Well, Khaiyaann's recovery has been going very well with his lungs and heart. Tomorrow he gets to switch over to oral antibiotics (thank God) instead of injectable. 

BUT... My vet taught me where to give him his antibiotic injections - pecs, neck and butt. I had been rotating sites so one area didn't get damaged from constant use. However, his pecs.... At first (yesterday) I noticed what looked like little flaps of skin hanging down from both pecs. They felt soft and like there was nothing in them. But today his right pec skin flap feels hard to the touch, warm to the touch and is more swollen than yesterday. 

I called my vet and sent her pics via cell phone. She said apply heat, and that she didn't think it is abscessed yet... Yet...

Any ideas on how to help this poor fella before it really gets bad? He's been through SO much lately and I'd like to stem this off if possible.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I have no idea but I really hope he pulls through with no more illness. Such an exhausting time for you. Keep up the good work, it seems to be working.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I'd never give an IM in the pecs. That muscle is just too small but still, lots of people do it. It seems to be the latest craze or something.
I would avoid that site & use the others.

Those little bags will take a while for the body to absorb because they are dependent. You could try applying an epsom salt poultice, that will help draw out fluid.


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

Thanks for that. I'm worried about it because now it has doubled in size - the two flaps have become one - and it feels warm to the touch.  And he's already been through SO much [email protected]!


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## Me and Smiling Horse (Jul 2, 2012)

*Update*

I'm SO happy to report that after a long illness and extended recovery, my Khaiyaann is doing GREAT! I rode him today for the first time since he got sick - bareback and bitless. He did GREAT! I had to slow him down and make him take it easy, but his stamina and strength are awesome and he seemed very happy about getting out and being ridden! He has always loved to get out and GO!  We only rode for a short while and we took it very easy, but he's on the mend and it looks as if this autumn will find us out on the trails together! YAY!!!


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

I am so glad to hear that! I hope for the best for you and him!


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