# Another color question!



## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

:shock:Of course this is another question on color. Shocking! This is my friend's yearling colt (actually gelding now, but we still call them colts for some reason). He is reddish colored with really odd whorls or cowlicks (not sure what they are). His mane is peppered And his tail is darker than his body. No dark points. He has white hairs evenly throughout his body that started appearing this spring, and several spotted areas (one under his chin, his chest, and base of his tail. 

I forget what the mother was (chestnut or bay, altho I think bay), and the father was a paint.

So the questions are:

What color is he considered?
What is his mane color called?


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

mother was a quarter, also!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The white flecks are sabino spots, which is also associated with the roaning and high stockings. They should qualify him for regular APHA registration. Base color is just sorrel. I know less about the effects of sabino on the different body hairs than some other posters here, but I suspect that that is what is causing the mane coloration--some might call that flaxen, but I disagree. Someone may come by and tweak some corrections into my explanation.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

She was thinking sorrel, and the vet put him down on his papers, and coggins as roan. I have never seen a mane like that, and apparently not many have. Another friend of HERS said he only had seen one horse with a mane like that when he was like 8! He's 40 now!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

I dont agree with flaxen either... flaxen is blonde or white to me....


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Vets aren't generally very well versed in colors or genetics. Nor are their techs. I've had Coggins papers come back marked as "chocolate" or "black" (for my seal brown) and better yet, "tan and white" for my dad's dun Paint.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

lol, tan and white, lol... No I have noticed, but she didnt seem like she wanted to draw all his little spots on the coggins paper, haha!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Then there were the vet and tech swearing up and down trying to convince me that they had seen gray skip a generation ("not often, but it does happen!"). And that chestnut/red is dominant, but some horses, apparently, are "more dominant" than others. And that frame overo is recessive, or else not the same thing as OLWS. Or that a homozygous black horse threw a sorrel colt.....


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Ooops! I forgot a sorrel or chestnut is one thats mane is the same or lighter than their coat. I wish I knew what that mane color is called tho, hehe...

BTW, Bubba13, I was relaly impressed with ur art! U make me wanna take up the hobby again!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

See, Im not that educated in colors, so I'd take their word for it, but I also look it up and also say "Im not sure, but the vet said this...". Ur pretty educated in this, but ur not proud enough to say u dont know! Ur a good guy, lol! U remind me of me! LOL! I agree with sorrel and sabino. Im still googling to try to find a mane like that tho!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Wheatermay said:


> Ooops! I forgot a sorrel or chestnut is one thats mane is the same or lighter than their coat. I wish I knew what that mane color is called tho, hehe...


I'm sure someone will be along to explain the mane, and how it is or is not related to the sabino thing going on. Sorrel vs. chestnut....genetically, they are both "red," and indistiguishable on a genetic test (and one horse can vary in shade from one to another through the course of its life). But I suspect that there are additional, yet unknown genetic factors at play that influence the shade expression, as related horses seem to be the same color.

Overseas, all red horses are called chestnut (with some exceptions, for example pale Belgians being called "blonde," etc.). Among stock horse enthusiasts in the US, though, horses with more brown/yellow coats are called chestnut, while red/orange ones are sorrel--at least that's how the breed registries define them. Mane color has nothing to do with it.



> BTW, Bubba13, I was relaly impressed with ur art! U make me wanna take up the hobby again!


Thanks, but there are a lot of talented artists here, some of whom really put me to shame!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

I knew that some people call them the same and some different, depending on various reasons. I think the same thing tho... chestnuts are darker brownish tint, and sorrel red, but I always end up saying chestnut no matter, lol....

And u have ur own style, and thats what I like. Its simple and not overdone!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Mane looks like flaxen with sooty to me. It's a pretty common expression.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Maybe not in this part of WV, lol... Chiilaa, I was gonna tag you just bc I knew u'd know! haha


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Yup! Ur right as always! Googled it, lol! Case solved!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Rofl 

It's usually more common in ponies, but then, most things are. A grey mane on a chestnut is generally thought to be flaxen with sooty over the top.

ETA: I'm not always right lol


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

But like bubba13, ur not afraid to say when ur not sure! thats why I like to have you answer! LOL!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Have you ever seen whorls like that before? It hard to brush that guy, lol... it feels like ur going against the fur, so u brush the other way, then its running a different way, lol


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Can you circle the whorls in a pic? I can't really make them out?


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

HMmmmm....ur asking me to use my brain.... I'll try... Wait I have a good one of his neck!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

How long has it been like that?


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

TADA! I must be a genius! Or just really lucky! Or just really tired, lol...:lol:


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Since his baby hair shed out...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

So that's two sheds?

I have no idea. I will wait a while to see what everyone else has to say, and we can brainstorm from there, unless others have a more definitive answer lol.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Yea, I think.... hold one.....checked old pics, and yes, he's shed a foal coat and one winter coat. He doesnt have them in his foal pics (not that I can see).


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Whorls, lol....thats what I call them, but I think they r cool looking... not sure what they actually are tho...


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

CHiilla, its been a whole day, and no ideas! LOL!


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## CHEEKYGAL (Apr 19, 2011)

Im no colour guru but that sure is a great long neck!


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

LOL, it really isnt that long, haha... just a bad pic! I noticed that! His neck and head look longer than his body!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Actually, he looks alarmingly like a giraffe in those pics! Mayhap Raina or Svetlana, the mini giraffes, were his real momma...or Vladmir was his real daddy! :shock: Photos : Sokoblovsky Farms - Russia's Finest Purveyors of Miniature Lap Giraffes


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

LOL, I was looking at those! Im on the waiting list , hehe! Poor Takota, lol... I was in a hurry trying to show if his color that I took a pic of his bad side! haha! His butt is just father away in the pic. His momma would probably be mad at me for that pic, lol.... .


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

He's a very handsome guy how old is he now? How is he bred? Looks a little on the thin side to me my colt does that sometimes though looks thin in pic but looks ok in person.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

He just turned one in June or July... they seems to be hitting tons of growth spurts lately. She was wondering about his ribs showing too (and he does look skinnier in the pic), I'll attach another pic (later this evening b/c I have no pics on this comp-my moms) so ur not worried, lol... My mare and gelding did that too around that age tho. Always 3 ribs showing till they hit three. My vet had told me that it was normal, but if saw anymore than a few ribs than to call her. But if she is wrong, someone let me know... Altho it wont help my foals anymore since they r three now, lol... I know these guys are wormed regular and fed daily (hogheads!)


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

O, his father was a paint and his mother a QH.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Sorry that took so long, but now Im finally home. This was taken 8/20 of Takota (on my sons birthday!).


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> He's a very handsome guy how old is he now? How is he bred? Looks a little on the thin side to me my colt does that sometimes though looks thin in pic but looks ok in person.


I was trying to answer you there about him looking a little skinny. I think it might be the pic, that is why I posted another, but his ribby-ness is b/c he only a yearling and growing so much. He is wormed and fed grain daily, and he just had a examination in June or July and got a clean bill of health and lost his studly essence, lol...


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Wheatermay said:


> I was trying to answer you there about him looking a little skinny. I think it might be the pic, that is why I posted another, but his ribby-ness is b/c he only a yearling and growing so much. He is wormed and fed grain daily, and he just had a examination in June or July and got a clean bill of health and lost his studly essence, lol...



Yea thats why I added that sometimes its just the pictures my colt does the same.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Well, I I know, but I didnt want anyone to worry about him, hehe


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Eh, them young ones go through some funky looking stages... they get ribby when they grow taller, then they get fat, then ribby, then fat, etc LOL.

I agree with others about his color though; sooty flaxen sorrel with sabino.

As for the odd hair growth, I'm not sure what you would call that LOL. It certainly is unique though.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

She wanted something different, lol... I only found like 3 sooty flaxen sorrel and/or chestnuts on google image search. Are we sure this is common? LOL No questioning, but I really have never seen that before, and no one around here has. Is it just not common in this state or county, lol?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, pretty common, most people don't label it as "sooty flaxen" though. Most would just call it regular "flaxen" or some wouldn't mention the flaxen at all.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Smrobs, another novice horse color question  lol.... why isnt his tail like that? Is it sort of like a "spots" of sooty on the horses body. Randomly? Like a white spot on a horse's mane will make that part white? Is it like that?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Sooty can be fun. This stallion is genetically tested palomino lol.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Sooty can be fun. This stallion is genetically tested palomino lol.


WOW! That is so cool! LOL! She has a palomino too, so I'll have to show her that pic!


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## kuusou (Jul 27, 2011)

you're horses mane looks like my Shetland pony's mane. In his paper he is only registered as chestnut


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

Takota's my friend Lisa's little guy. He's grown on me tho.


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