# Conditioning help for being stuck at novice forever



## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

So my Lizzy was going to be my endurance horse. We had been conditioning until a tendon injury in May put her on rest. She only kicked herself and vet gave clearance to ride in a few days. Long story short she ended up with the worst case of scratches ever so she was completely out for 3 weeks and with my summer classes I have been only able to ride around 1-2 days a week. So she has been stiff and very short strided and just sort of off for her movement.

I had the vet/chiro out Tuesday and the bad news, no endurance ever without injections . The vet was very impressed with her health and she is extremely flexible and has excellent bone structure and soundness but her arthritis is too far. She is completely sound but her back left fetlock is retaining fluid. It never goes down with exercise and she is out on pasture 24/7. He did adjust her a bit in her neck and her right hip. So hopefully that helps her movement.

She is to be buted for the first week of bringing back into work to get past the initial pain stage. She must be worked a minimum of 3 days a week but ideally 5 days a week, no matter what. So besides not overworking the first week since she will be on a low dose of bute but enough to get her working how do I proceed with conditioning her? I have settled with the fact that we will just aim to do a novice ride in fall and then maybe a few next year. I was going to do a lot of conditioning rides with some experienced endurance folks but obviously I don't want to make her keep up with them as the vet said 10 miles should be her max for her long rides.

It wasn't the news I wanted to hear. I knew it would eventually come as she is 20 but I was hoping we could get atleast a couple years of good riding first. She is with me until she passes and I cannot afford another horse until we find a house with some land. I am making due with her conditions and aiming to give her something to focus on and a goal for us to reach. 

So I am looking for advice on how to condition her? For instance what are some goals for how long to keep her trotting, cantering and so on? The vet and I set a goal to condition for the summer and come fall he will be back out for a follow up exam/adjustment with xrays on the consistently swollen fetlock.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

It sounds like you are going to want to be super conservative with your conditioning and be very aware of your mare's reaction to it.

Normally I am big on working every other day or every couple days (so to have good recovery/rest days in between), but dealing with an injury rehab can change that. It may be that she does best with a couple days of increasing work in a row before resting. I think a lot of figuring out what works best will be a guessing game until you try it and see what happens.

You said she had been stiff and short strided. Does she seem to work out of that better in one gait than another? I knew someone with an older horse who would be ok at a walk or canter, but trotting really bothered his hocks to start, so she made sure to do a very thorough warmup with lots of walking, then some cantering, then more walking with lateral work before ever asking him to trot (and then only did very short amounts of trotting).

Best of luck finding what works for her. And good for you for being committed to her lifetime care.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

We don't normally do a lot of cantering as she is still green and we had gone back to the walk to relearn what stop means. She is now working wonderfully in a plain snaffle and so we moved up to the trot. She normally loves trotting and can move out beautifully. When on the trail I will allow her to canter in some areas because she does like to stretch out a bit. So it's hard to say about the gaits. She does seem to like to try to trot off right away but that could just be she doesn't like the arena. 

I think I'm going to start with just 20 min workouts when riding and throw some shorter lunging sessions in there too. When we head to the trails, usually on the weekends, it's typically at least an hour but can easily be two hours, mostly walking though. 

The vet thinks her short striding could have been her right hip too. She needed a good amount of adjusting there as just two months ago she was really extending her stride. I knew something was wrong when she wouldn't canter home last weekend. That was very unlike her and while it was hot and humid out we had only gone about 2 miles total.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I think you need to be honest with yourself. This horse simply isnt suitable for endurance. You need a sound fit horse. This horse has chronic lameness issues. Not to mention it is 20 yo and just starting out conditioning and has arthritis ? Also AERC does not allow "with injections" or really any other type of drugs, painkillers, anti inflammatory or really much of anything. Enjoy the slow easy trails with your horse but I would be surprised if you could get it through a vet check at an endurance ride. Lot of time and money to waste only to get pulled right off the bat. And a horse favoring a hip, short striding or swollen hock will get pulled.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I think you must have read wrong. She is not lame. She is 100% sound. Vet even did a flex test when he was out. She is stiff from arthritis but she hasn't been in much work the last month. Up until a month ago she was being ridden 5 times a week for at least an hour. She could do a 15 mile trail ride and want to keep going. She was put on rest because of a slight tendon injury (just trauma nothing torn ) and then scratches so she was pretty much out of work for a month and then when I brought her back in she was very stiff and short strided, that is why I had the vet out.

I find it hard to believe that Adequan or Legend is not allowed? I certainly didn't see that in the rules. Neither are a pain killer but rather help the fluid that is in the joints. Her fetlock retains fluid, yes, but I asked some people that organize these rides and it doesn't seem it would be an issue since she is sound and there is no pain. She works out of the stiffness.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I think your not reading your own posts. 
You are deluding yourself if you think an arthritic, retained fluid, injured tendons, off in the hip horse is 100% sound.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Well vet said she was sound. Her hip needed adjustment as in a chiropractic adjustment. We are only going for novice which is 9-15 miles tops. Vet cleared her for that. And I'm using one of the best vet clinics in the state. Her tendon is healed, she had kicked herself but that was in May. She also must stay in work no matter what.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

You are still dealing with a 20 year old horse. The older horse's heart rate takes much longer to return to resting heart rate than say a 10 yr old. She does not have the oxygen uptake of the younger horse plus the old girl is arthritic. I think you are expecting too much of her. Joe4d-perhaps the chiro is a miracle worker. Somehow I can't see that adjusting a hip will fix the arthritis. Bone deposits don't go away but hey, what do we know?


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Where did I say her arthritis went away? I don't think 10 miles is too much to ask. She was easily doing 15-18 miles prior to her being on rest. We were conditioning with others that regularly compete in endurance. The rest made her deteriate quickly because she was arthritic. It was the first rest period in a year and a half. That is why she needs to stay in work. She has never been lame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bayern (Jun 3, 2013)

Have to agree whole heartedly with Joe4D's comments. This horse probably could make a great light trail horse with no problems.....even hard trail riding or competition could put her at RISK!


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Well luckily I have an excellent vet that can give vet advice. I asked for conditioning advice. Still not sure what the difference is between us riding for 10 miles on the trail or us riding 10 miles with a group for competition? She doesn't do walking trail rides, she's an arab, walk isn't in her vocabulary.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Why dont you start riding her a little at a time ad see how she reacts? 1 mile 3 days a week. If she is fine increase it to 2. I have an 18 year old arab and we ride 12 miles in a day (and a lot is trotting and galloping up hill). If my mare dose not get out much (and its cold) she gets string-halt. The only thing that fixes that is work. I do agree though, you need to keep an eye on fluid retention and pain, she may not be able to do endurance, but who knows, IF she is sound she should be ok for SHORT ones.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

She is 100% sound, this has been determined by my vet not me. The vet feels she just has arthritis right now and we have a plan for him to come back out in the early fall to do another evaluation with xrays. He didn't feel xrays were needed right now. When I say her back fetlock is retaining fluid it has just the slightest amount. Most people cannot tell. 

The current trail ride that we do that is mainly trotting and cantering is about 3 miles to go to a marker and back. She can do that comfortably right now. The biggest thing working against her is her cardio. She has gotten fatter since actually being on a pasture and she sat too long so she is out of shape. 

I am currently working her 3 days on then 1 day rest then 3 on 1 off and so on. She works out of any stiffness in about 5 minutes. I'm not sure we can even call what I want to do endurance. It is more like group trail riding with a goal. In the novice classes you are in a group and have a goal time to arrive. Everything is easier than the competetive trail or endurance classes.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Sorry to say this , but if your vet is giving the OK to train and compete, why don't you ask HIM for a conditioning schedule?

Your first post, and possibly others, have made it sound like ypur horse has a tendon injury(possibly resolved), arthritis(which requires injections), BUte for pain, is 20 yo,and the vet said 10 miles MAX.....

If you think HF members are protective of the horses, wait until you get to an endurance ride. If you mention ANY of this casually at a ride, you may be VERY unhappy with the response you get. 

And since an endurance ride is FIFTY miles, not 10, you have a LONG way to go to get in condition for that. 

You need another horse to do endurance, there is NO Novice level.....

Sorry.

Nancy


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

There is absolutely a novice level. They are between 9-15 miles. They are ment for horses or people who are just starting into endurance or who can't do the longer rides. There is no limit on how many novice rides I can compete in. Maybe they don't have them by you but here in the upper midwest we have novice level. This will help explain to you. Page 15.
http://www.umecra.com/BylawsAndRules/UMECRA%20RULES%202013%20for%20web.pdf

Her tendon injury wasn't really an injury, she kicked herself out in turnout and basically just had a bump like a person would have if they kicked themselves. That has long since gone away and is 100% fine now. 

Her arthritis does not require injections. The vet said if I wanted to do the 50 mile endurance races then she would need injections but they are not even close to being needed for maintenance.

She was only to be buted for the first week that she was being brought back into work. I know if I don't work out for a while and then go into a regular workout routine I would certainly be needing some advil for the first week. That is all bute is really.

Yes she is 20 and was a broodmare for 18 years. Never used or worked for 18 years so naturally conditioning will take longer. 

Vet said 10 miles was a good stopping point for regular trail rides. He said if she can comfortably do more than that good but he wouldn't ask her to do it regularly. Vets don't really give conditioning schedules but they set the boundries for what can and cannot be done.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

poppy1356 said:


> She doesn't do walking trail rides, she's an arab, walk isn't in her vocabulary.


There is the first thing I suggest you work on. Being an arab has NOTHING to do with being unable to walk on a trail ride. :evil: We have 3 arabs who are seasoned, fit endurance horses and each and every one can and will walk (on a loose rein!) when requested - and this includes alone, in a group, at the start of a ride with 80 horses milling around, or when a rider goes blasting past on trail. 




poppy1356 said:


> There is absolutely a novice level. They are between 9-15 miles. They are ment for horses or people who are just starting into endurance or who can't do the longer rides.
> http://www.umecra.com/BylawsAndRules/UMECRA RULES 2013 for web.pdf


I think you are confusing people with your use of the term "endurance" when you really mean "distance riding." "Distance riding" is a generalized term than incorporates a lot of different versions of the sport, rather like "running" can mean anything from people doing 5Ks to people doing ultramarathons but a "marathon" is a very specific distance of run. 

As far as I know, UMECRA recongizes both CTR (competitive trail riding) and endurance rides sanctioned by AERC (American Endurance Ride Conference). Those are actually 2 different types of ride, with different rules and expectations, though its not unusual for an organization to hold dual-sanctioned rides. "Novice" is a CTR term, not an AERC one. Again, goes back to the whole a 5Ker is not a marathoner but they are both runners. Semantics on some level, but using the wrong terminology leads to confusion.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Oh she will walk if I make her but she would rather not. She rides out alone or in small or big groups. She doesn't lose her head when in larger groups. She does prefer to be leader or close to it but has no problem holding back if I wish. She just loves to move out and a nice extended trot is her preferred gait. She will cross water, bridges, roads and anything I ask of her. 

We did have an issue with her rushing forward and not slowing when I asked. It isn't perfect but she listens now. She will just glare at everybody to show her displeasure with what I am asking. So when it's safe to do so I usually let her move out since it's good exercise for both of us. 

Sorry about the definition. I was under the assumption that it was just different divisions since that is what our rule book made it seem like. It grouped everything into one ride but just had the different divisions you could do. Not every ride has a novice and the next ride we are hoping to get to is in September and is 10 miles. I'm more worried about the 3 hour trailer ride than anything else.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

This is one of those situations where I really wish your horse could talk to you. I'm well into my 50's and arthritis HURTS! Yes mobility is important but just as important is knowing when to stop for the day. It sounds like your personal goals are more important than your horse.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

If my personal goals were more important than I would just give her the injections and ride. But obviously I'm not doing that and I never would as I don't feel that is right. If she needed them to be pasture sound so she could live peacfully then I would as long as she was otherwise healthy and happy. 

I also have arthritis in my spine. I may be young but I have sustained more substantial injuries than the majority of adults. I can't sit for more than 30 minutes without getting extremely stiff to the point where I can't stand up straight for a minute. Working on my feet all day helps me.

I listen to my horse. I know when she is uncomfortable and then I look for why. That is why the vet was out in the first place. I started to bring her back into work and she was clearly uncomfortable so I had the vet out for a full exam.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

while i wouldnt normally question an on scene vet one that says 100% sound, in the same sentence as a long list of ailments is a moron. 
Your vet need to look up the definition of sound and 100 percent. 
100 percent means 100 out of a possible 100. A horse with a chipped hoof or a ever so minor stone bruise is no longer 100 out of 100. 
And one with the ailments you listed dang sure isnt. 
Now conceivable your horse may be sound enough to finish a non sanctioned distance event. But just giving your description to the "Vet in" vet might result in a very short day for you. Thats just the way it is sometimes, part of being mature and making the right decisions is being the brains of the outfit and facing reality. No doubt in my mind I could take your horse and run it 25 miles, good horses that bond with you have heart and will literally kill them selves to please you. Im betting that probably wouldnt be in its best interest. I had to face that reality with my two walking horses. despite all the wishful thinking in the world endurance was too much for one of them, and the other would never be competitive at the level Id like to compete.
You asked about a conditioning schedule for a horse that most likely shouldnt be ridden at a level that will condition it for the task at hand.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Thank you, Joe.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Although I 100% agree with the others that you should not have an endurance race as a goal for this horse, you can and should have a conditioning plan in place to keep her in good health. 

1st importance is footing for this mare, not too firm and not too soft, and possible hoof boots would help to cushion her joints. Also Forta-flex or other joint medicine. 

2nd, I usually focus on improving a horse's lungs through interval training. Periods of walk & trot, to begin, then working up to w/t/c sets. Sart with something like 10 steps walk, two strides of trot, repeat. This can be done lunging or riding, depending on the horse's current condition. 

Last is to build the muscles through conditioning. Shortenings & lengthening in each gait, longer periods within each gait, up & down hills, etc. 

Check heart rate & recovery time religiously. 

work 3 days, one day off, repeat. 

Keep assessing her tolerance as you go along, and she should make a very nice trail horse. I would not plan on trying to be competative if you choose to try one of those 10 mile rides. Focus instead on keeping the mare sound. 

Good luck.


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