# Good english trail bits?



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Why do you need a shanked bit or even a twisted snaffle?
Does the horse get strong and difficult to hold?
My horses all trail ride in French link type snaffles apart from one of them in that I ride in a shaped mullen mouth Happy Mouth snaffle


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

I don't necessarily need a shanked bit, I just like the way he holds his head down and in a nice frame with the extra leverage. He actually has a pretty sensitive mouth and I have no trouble keeping him checked back so him being too strong isn't an issue and, even if it were, I wouldn't be trying to fix the problem with a stronger bit.

I do have a French link but I have already tried it on and its too big. He actually responds better to a straight bar rather than a broken or jointed. I was just looking to try something new and different rather than my twisted snaffle.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

saddlebred99 said:


> I don't necessarily need a shanked bit,* I just like the way he holds his head down and in a nice frame with the extra* l*everage*. He actually has a pretty sensitive mouth and I have no trouble keeping him checked back so him being too strong isn't an issue and, even if it were, I wouldn't be trying to fix the problem with a stronger bit.
> 
> I do have a French link but I have already tried it on and its too big. He actually responds better to a straight bar rather than a broken or jointed. I was just looking to try something new and different rather than my twisted snaffle.


That is not something you should use a leverage bit for.
A nice (correct) frame is achieved by riding the horse from behind so he uses his quarters to go forwards into a light resisting hand - you don't need leverage for that. You will end up with a horse in a false headset and eventually behind the bit
You should always look at riding your horse in the mildest bit possible - a twisted snaffle is not a mild bit and if a horse feels 'light' in it it's usually because its afraid to make contact with it - not something you want or need in English riding


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## Jewlz88 (Mar 7, 2015)

I agree with jaydee. Maybe try a smooth jointed snaffle? I believe they are pretty mild.


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

Oh, I didn't know that. I'll look for a more mild bit. I had no idea that a twisted snaffle wasn't considered a "mild" bit. Would a smooth snaffle, as jewlz suggested, be something to look at?


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## clumsychelsea (Jul 9, 2014)

I have two bridles and two bits that I use frequently: A loose ring french link snaffle and a single jointed eggbutt snaffle. My mare actually prefers the single jointed snaffle (which surprised me a little since the horses I have ridden previously mostly preferred the french link) and both the bits are mild, although that always depends on riders hands. I would try some kind of smooth snaffle in place of the twisted snaffle and see how your guy does in it. Start very simple and go from there.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Here's how I approach bits.

Take the bit you're using or considering and rest it in the crook of your elbow, then bend your arm so that the bit is tucked up in the sensitive skin on the inside of your elbow. Then, have someone use the reins on the bit as you would when you're riding. That gives you an idea of how the bit feels in the horse's mouth.

A twisted snaffle is definitely NOT mild bit. Those ridges that form the twist bite into the horse's bars of the mouth when pressure is applied.

A smooth snaffle, especially a three-piece snaffle, is generally considered a mild bit. My gelding isn't a fan of regular stainless steel mouthpieces, but LOVES a bit with sweet iron and copper. 

Just remember that a bit is as mild or as harsh as the hands wielding it (there are some exceptions, obviously). 

Also, if he goes well in a western curb on the trail, why not just ride him in a western curb? This one is one of my favorites: https://www.horseloverz.com/product...ier-antique-low-port-hinged-futurity-bit.html


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

I'll definitely try putting a bit in the crease of my elbow. I don't use the western curb because I ride english and wouldn't that look a bit silly? Haha either way I'll be switching to a milder bit for lessons. He is really light in his mouth. I didn't realize that the twisted snaffle possibly had something to do with it.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

If you're trail riding, it shouldn't matter what you "look" like. I used to have an Aussie saddle with an English bridle and a snaffle bit, with western stirrups and a western breast collar on my Aussie saddle. 

On the trail, no one cares what you look like. You use the equipment that works for you and your horse. If that's a western curb bit with an English saddle, then that's what it is.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

there is nothing wrong with riding in a curb bit. many horses prefer a solid mouthpiece curb. you can mix and match english bits/western bits and tack. use what works.

I do have to say that what many people see as the hrose staying nice and round can often be the hrose coming behind the bit. you may see are big arch of neck, and the ears are well below that arch, and pointing forward, and the chin tucked well back, so the face (forhead) is pointed more toward the ground. it may look fancy, but this horse may actually be less under control when you actaully need it. it depends on the hrose. some come back behind the bit like that, and then if for some reaason they decide to go somewhere and you don't want that, good luck with stopping them. they can run right through the bit. 

It's a bad habit that is very hard to break and over a long period of time, it builds muscle in bad places and and a lot tension in the neck and jaw.

so, don't look for that and think it's a good thing. 

that doens't mean your horse might not ride fine in a curb. it's hard to make any kind of judgement without seeing how she moves.


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

True. My cousin, who bought one of our mares, used a curb with her english tack for a while. It was mainly because she felt she didn't have "enough control" over her horse. Her riding instructor suggested it. Ignorance. Anyways, no one said anything to her on the trails so I guess you're right  I think that's what I'll do.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Like I said, it's not a crime to use a curb. but, if your horse is riding up on it so much that they curve over, it's like they are "riding the brakes" constantly. that isn't really control, certainly not for the long haul.


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

Yeah, I didn't think about that. I had no idea that there could be false headsets. Collection was collection to me. I'll have to inform my dad of this haha he just sticks a horse in a leverage bit so it will "collect." 

I think as long as I'm not hanging on his mouth this won't be a problem.

Maybe I can get a video of him in a curb to show you guys and see what you think. Thanks a lot for the information!

He actually has a natural frame which I love about him.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I would caution you from going to your dad and saying "you've been doing it all wrong. I learn this or that on the internet". might not go over well, besides, we don't know how he's riding, so it' s not our place to judge him.

perhaps read a bit more, watch some videos , look at how your horse is going and keep an open mind . the big thing is if you require a big bit to get a stop on your horse, then that's a sign that he is building up resistance to the bit, and learning to curl over to avoid it.

jsut saw your photo;
looks nice!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Sooooo many people think collection and headset are the same thing. Another word that gets tossed about is getting a horse into a "frame." I have a friend who says that her gelding collects up nicely when all he does is break at the poll and drop his head. That is not collection. Collection is a horse engaging its hind end and stepping up under itself, while rounding the back.


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

Lol true. 

I'm glad I know the difference now. I'll have to do some research on engaging a horse's hindquarters. I would love for him to collect properly and know that I'm doing it correct.

Edit** About the frame, is that what my horse is doing? Breaking at the poll? I've always had people tell me it's a "natural frame."

Thank you tinyliny! He is quite a lovely mount when he is relaxed and not worked up about everything haha


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

saddlebred99 said:


> Lol true.
> 
> I'm glad I know the difference now. I'll have to do some research on engaging a horse's hindquarters. I would love for him to collect properly and know that I'm doing it correct.
> 
> ...



he is saddlebred, so should be judged with an understanding of how saddlebreds naturally go. I think that photo shows a horse nicely accepting the bit, a rider with good , straight contact, a good natural seat, and a happy horse. relax and go riding!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

saddlebred99 said:


> Oh, I didn't know that. I'll look for a more mild bit. I had no idea that a twisted snaffle wasn't considered a "mild" bit. Would a smooth snaffle, as jewlz suggested, be something to look at?


Take the twisted snaffle, put it in the crook of your elbow, close your arm and have someone yank on the reins. Experience it for yourself. You can do this test with any bit.

I use a roller bit with my horse on the trails - same bit we use for arena work. It's a double jointed snaffle but modified so it's made up of all rollers.


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

What exactly is the purpose of the roller? That could be something I look into as well.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

It keeps your horse occupied. They roll the roller with their tongue. Some people like them with a horse that's mouthy or needs something to do so they don't get stressed or overthink things. Other people don't like them because they think the horse tunes them out if it starts playing with the roller(s) too much.

I think you said earlier that he doesn't like jointed mouthpieces? What about something like this instead? http://www.horse.com/item/western-ss-mullen-copper-roller-d-ring-bit/E008425/

Or if he likes a three-piece mouthpiece: http://www.horse.com/item/westen-ss-dogbone-copper-roller-o-ring-bit/E008340/


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

He definitely seems a lot happier in a straight bar. I think I recall my trainer saying that he played a lot with his mouth or tongue when we first got him. He seems to have gotten better about it though. What are the affects of the three piece? Are they any different than a single jointed?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

A single-jointed bit breaks in the middle and often has a nutcracker effect on the bars of the mouth. The joint in the middle can also poke the horse in the roof of the mouth. With a three-piece (double-jointed) bit, there is an extra joint, so the mouthpiece lays across the tongue better. There's also almost zero chance of the bit poking the horse in the roof of the mouth. 

My gelding does not like a single-jointed bit. He loves a three-piece bit. I've not tried him in a mullen mouth bit or one with a small port. His favorite bit of all time was a knock-off of the Sharon Camarillo TenderTouch bit with sweet iron mouth and copper lifesaver that I picked up at Tractor Supply on a whim for $22. Just like this, but with a smooth mouthpiece and the center ring/lifesaver is copper: Sharon Camarillo Lifesaver Tender Touch Bit - Horse.com


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

Wow. It's so cool how many types of bits there are! I might try him out in my French link. It is smidge too big but would it do any harm to do a quick 30 minute warm up in the ring with it? Just to see how he does with it.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Too big is better than too small, IMO. So, for a quick warmup, no I don't think it'd be a problem.


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

Awesome! I always thought that a 3 piece would be harsher that a single jointed bit haha now I realize its much milder. I may just keep him in a snaffle now that I've seen how many kinds there are. We're bound to find one that's perfect


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The bridge of your nose is an even more appropriate place to try a bit than the crook of your elbow. There is no cushioning on the bridge of your nose, or on the bars of a horse's mouth - the bone is covered by a thin layer of sensitive skin/mucosa.

A port-mouthed Spanish snaffle with a slotted D-ring is a nice mild English curb option for trail and general use, which is preferred over broken-mouthpiece snaffles by many horses with sensitive and/or narrow mouths, or when ridden by riders without super soft hands (because, unlike a snaffle, it stops direct shocks to the bars of the mouth, and spreads force applied to the reins over time and over more area - I recommend reading Tom Roberts' _Horse Control and the Bit_ for a good understanding of the actions of all sorts of bits on the market, and for learning exactly why snaffles are not milder bits than short-shanked curb bits). If you don't want a curb action, the Happy Mouth snaffles are nice bits (especially the unbroken ones). 

I always prefer the softest options, and they're not usually the standard broken metal snaffles, and even less so anything with twists in it or a small contact area (pressure is force divided by area - so minimise your applied force and go for a reasonable area of contact). Horses respond best to mild bits and sensitive handling of reins - and horses dead in the mouth were made so by humans and need re-training (preferably bitless at first until they trusts humans with reins again) and more sensitive handling.

You could also try bitless with a short-shanked nice padded English hackamore with a leather chin strap (not a chain! not in that position on the jaw!). Quite a few of our horses much preferred that over the standard snaffle, and in the 1980s we trailed in them extensively.

Both the Spanish snaffle and the padded English hackamore encourage the horse to bring the face into a more vertical position rather than poking the nose up to avoid the action of the bit (lots of riding school horses develop into chronic star-gazers with hollow backs after years of dealing with novice riders riding in "soft" broken snaffles - have a good look next time you go to a riding school). The Australian cavalry used short-shanked curb bits as standard issue when Tom Roberts was training their riders and horses - because they are comfortable for the horse, and softer bits for horses with novice riders than broken snaffles. 

The Spanish Snaffle I described above is also excellent for turning the horse, and for riding in contact as you would with dressage snaffles and dressage curbs.










Here's my riding horse on our local harbour beach when I first re-trained him for saddle, happy and relaxed in a port-mouthed Spanish snaffle, ridden with very light contact.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

PS: In case it's not already abundantly clear: Any bit combining a broken mouthpiece with any kind of curb action is inevitably going to produce an extreme nutcracker action on the bars of a horse's mouth, which is an awful thing to even contemplate...and I am surprised they can still be legally bought in many places. But then, so can leg traps... :-(


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Here's how I approach bits.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 A smooth snaffle is the bit that I use the most but I also find that some horses prefer a thicker (or narrower) mouthpiece as well.

I did an experiment with a very well trained mare that I usually rode in a thick egg butt snaffle, I had someone watch me ride her in the egg butt, a kimberwicke, a mullen mouth Pelham, and a twisted snaffle to see if either of us could see any difference. I could tell when I bridled her that she didn't like the feel of the twisted snaffle, but the result was that she performed very much the same. Admittedly I have good hands and this was a very fine tuned horse but WHY would I want to use anything other than the mildest bit?

Horses need to get used to a different bit and there is some additional training with a curb but borrowing different bits and trying my experiment can give you some idea of what your horse will do best in


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Before everybody went crazy over "you are abusing your horse with the bit", the rule of thumb was, school your (young) horse in the arena with a snaffle, school him on the trails with a (mild) curb", for extra control.
Korsteel Full Cheek Snaffle Bit - Statelinetack.com
If you can stop your horse with a snaffle, my choice is a full cheek snaffle. 
A shorter shanked, mullen mouthed curb is a very comfortable bit for most horses.
FES Cambridge Weymouth Bit in Weymouth / Dressage / Pelham Bits at Schneider Saddlery
You MUST train your horse at home with ANY curb. Some horses will tuck with a curb bit first time, like my QH, Buster Brown, and others will bear against it and throw their heads.
ALSO, with any chain it needs:
(1) 2 fingers width clearance from the jaw when hooked to engage correctly
(2) twist clockwise to link smooth
I school my QH with a Pelham, but I'm comfortable riding with 4 reins. If you aren't, you'll be fiddling with the reins if your horse spooks.
Korsteel Polo Pelham Bit - Statelinetack.com
You can ride with just the curb reins on the trails.


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## saddlebred99 (Feb 19, 2015)

Thanks for all of the information! 

Is the Spanish snaffle somewhat similar to a kimberwick?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

A double joint bit is not always easy on the horse's mouth.










The double joints apply more pressure on the tongue, while a single joint applies more to the bars. The tongue has more potential to absorb pressure, but not all horses like it. Some prefer pressure on the bars. Constant pressure without release is often the root problem, as opposed to type of bit.

I've sold my English saddles, but Mia didn't care if we mixed tack:










When I ride her in a snaffle, I usually pick the Waterford. That means I'm mixing again - an "English" snaffle with my western saddle. Oh well. Mia seems to prefer either it or a Billy Allen snaffle, which is essentially a mullen. Some say a Waterford bit is harsh, but it provides EVEN pressure compared to the french link or single joint...kind of like having a rope there instead of something solid. The arm or face test demonstrates why it might be a milder bit for some horses. If I could only own one snaffle, I'd choose the Waterford.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you use a Pelham then the top rein on the snaffle part of it (same as for a double bridle) is used for steering and the rein on the curb used for more brakes and 'finesse' 
If you ride on just a curb then the horse needs to either neck rein or be very responsive to leg aids for direction


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