# How important is the bond?



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

You ride the training not the bond. A bond can make a horse more pleasant to deal with and work with but when push comes to shove, it all comes down to training.

Just my $0.02.
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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I think this is a REALLY good question.

I think that, especially in the case of pro trainers, horses automatically, instinctively, want to follow a confident+calm+clear leader -human or otherwise. It plays into their herd instinct. Therefore, a horse will generally follow someone who seems assertive and in control, even if they are not "bonded" to that person.

Likewise, on the bond side of things, most everyone has probably seen a pair of horses being close friends even if they aren't closely matched in the herd hierarchy. One horse might be significantly more dominant thn the other, yet they're still "BFFs".
My mare was like that, before her BFF of all time died - my mare's bestie was SUPER dominant and my mare is exactly the opposite of dominant. The bestie would "protect" my mare from other horses in the herd and gave my mare status in the herd [which my mare promptly lost when her bestie died]. My mare's friend didn't get a whole lot out of their relationship, it seemed, but she and my mare were the epitome of "joined at the hip". One was never without the other in the pasture and they did absolutely EVERYTHING together.

Long story short, I have to imagine that that's similar with the kind of horse-human bond you're describing. The horse doesn't necessarily respect the human, but the horse does care for the human [I believe horses certainly "love"..but I have no doubt that we can't even fathom what a horse might define "love" as. It's certainly different than OUR definition of love!!] and that's what we like to describe as a "bond".


For myself, I try to have a balance of the two. My mare is, luckily, VERY non-dominant so she'll follow anybody she thinks has a good head on their shoulders. It takes a bit to earn her respect, she will certainly test a new handler for a while, but her respect is nearly impossible to lose once you gain it. 
On the other hand, a bond is extremely important for us to have. She's mostly blind so she has to rely on and trust me to be her eyes. If I only had her respect and no bond, things would nottttt work out. I can tell you from experience, a bond with her is absolutely imperative for safety+continued human survival. :lol: 
A vision-impaired horse can respect the ever loving snot out of you, but if she doesn't trust you to be her eyes..it's not pretty. Not to mention that, for a vision-impaired horse, "respect" looks a lot different than it does for a "normal" horse - like giving a human space: a horse without sight can't really gauge how close she is to you = the idea that horses give space to those they respect doesn't work in this instance. And on and on. There are other ways a blind horse will show respect - keeping tabs on humans around and not accidentally bumping into them, listening+responding promptly to spoken cues, etc. It's just different than with a sighted horse.


Those are all my jumbled thoughts on the matter. I think both respect and bond are important, but I think, most of the time, respect takes precedence over bond. 
Not to mention that most horses will eventually "bond" with someone they respect, if the two spend enough time together. I would have to guess that the opposite, bond turning into respect, only occurs very infrequently..if ever.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I don't think the bond has a single thing to do with the training. 
I think a bond has to do with your level of enjoyment with your horse. Some people ride because they love horses and want a companion like relationship with their horse. Having a good working relationship with their horse makes this more enjoyable for them.

I think NH and training styles like that are valuable because they educate "the general public" about how to work with horses in Pressure and Release style training in a way that's generally safe. I think the only problem is it can make people feel like they can handle any horse by following a step by step book. 

I don't think there are many people that think that just having a good relationship with their horse will magically train their horse - they're two separate issues. Joined together with good training and a happy relationship can make the whole situation more enjoyable for most people though.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I don't expect my horse to do what I ask because they like me but because I am the leader and it's their nature. I also don't have a "bond" with every single horse that I have. I have a couple that I would say I have a bond with but not so much the others, though I do LIKE every horse that I have on the property. If I get a horse I truly don't like, I send them on. 

Funny that this should come up on the heels of the pets vs livestock discussion we've had on another thread. We were discussing how we treat pets differently than livestock, for instance I wouldn't sell a pet because of their bathroom habits, whereas I'll sell a horse that continually makes extra work for me. Right now I have a filly who consistently makes her stall a friggin' mess. She plays in the water, spills it all over and is just generally a pain when she has to be stalled. I like her a lot, she's very pretty and sweet, but if she doesn't outgrow this PIA phase, she'll get sold.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

I actually think a bond is just horse and owner knowing each other's buttons to push. Training is really everything, the rest is interpretation (e.g my horse is bonded / loves me because he does such and such).


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

My trainer can get on Z and in 5 minutes have him ready to follow her home. Not i. Even though I spend any times that amount of time with him.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Idk why the whole "bond" thing leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I think it's all the smoke and mirrors, riding off into the sunset tackless and the "errrmahgawd, youz got da bestest bond wit da horsie" reactions all over social media when they see someone laying down between their horses two front legs. 

It all comes down to training. You don't have to bond with, or even like, a horse your riding. Heck, I've ridden plenty of horses that I couldn't stand. The "bond" is simply icing on the cake, like when my mare whinnies at me and come over to the fence to say "hi". When she gets scared and she pushes through because I asked her to. It goes hand in hand with trust and respect.
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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Mia & I have a bond, and her training is improving...but she is not as safe & reliable for me to ride as Trooper is. Trooper doesn't like me (I think it is because I usually steal 'his girl' Mia and go off somewhere with her), but Trooper had a lot of miles put on him as a ranch horse. He does what he is told.

Ride the training. A bond may or may not happen over time. And if your horse is unsafe to ride, or causing problems, TRAIN the horse. Period.

One exception that isn't really an exception: If a horse is afraid of humans, then it really needs to learn that humans are not terrifying before it will progress much. But even there - you train the horse to understand humans are not terrifying. Then you train it to do other things. 

And sometimes, the miles you put on with a horse who hasn't bonded with you will build a bond of sorts. Still...I've ridden a lot on Trooper, and I don't think he will ever like me. He just obeys me, because he was trained that way.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

It is true that you ride the training and not the bond. 

My wife has a bond with her horse and I don't. However, she has more issues with him than I do. When she has enough of his behavior, she has me or a friend of ours come and "straighten" him out. 

Horses have been rode for many, many years. The idea of bonding with the horse has become popular with movies. People see the horse seem to bond with the actor and want their horse to be like in the movies. Even though you can train your horse like in the movies, movies are not reality.
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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

I think that you need to gain the horses FULL attention, respect, etc. before you can have any sort of bond. And not always will you have a bond with every horse you train or come upon.

You need to be able to have your horse listen to all your commands very well with little resistance, you need to teach him to have respect towards you and others, you need to let him know that YOU are in charge and what YOU say goes, NOT HIM. You need to have your horse very well trained lets say, to the best of your ability. If he is young, train him well.

Respect is the second number one thing to consider. (the first one is safety of course!)
If your horse does respect you, you can bet your buttons he won't listen to your commands. 

Once you think your horse has the best respect you can teach him, and he listens well then you might consider trying to have a bond.

First you're a trainer/teacher.
Then you are a friend.
Then you are his all time best friend whom he can trust very much.
Finally you are part of each others soul. Maybe not quite that much, but I know that when I knew I had a bond with my horse, Brisco it sure felt that way, hehe!!

*"But do pro trainers with lots of horses in their barns and horses coming and going all the time develop a bond with these horses? Do they take the time to get to know the horse or develop a relationship with it?"*

I think they don't. When they get a horse, the first thing they do is find what needs to be worked on with the horse and start fixing the issue. Right now the trainer doesn't have time to make a bond. That isn't their job anyways - their job right now is to fix te horses issues or train him better so that when te owners get him back, they can work with him 'fixed' and THEY can get te bond.

I don't actually know if it is true, but I think that only one horse can share only one bond with someone. So I may own Brisco over ahlf of his lifetime - but the two owners before me used him to train for barrels (which didn't succeed for the first owner) and as a schooling horse where people learned on - which is also where he learned he doesn't have to work hard because people will give up too soon. But when I started working with Brisco when I knew what I was doing, I didn't give up and I haven't so far. He came from being a pushy and bossy horse to my best friend. But first I have to be a teacher and teach him respect and that I am the alfa horse, not he.
So I don't think they do. Trainers train horses and if they want a bond with a horse they will use their own. 

*" So how important is the bond really and are there other explanations for when horses meet our expectations than that they have a bond with us?"
*
I think I answer the first half of the question already many times.
As for the second half...

Well, one could be respect and willingness. If the horse respects you, then he will do as he is asked to the best of his ability. Like Chocky - he is my moms horse and when I ride him he does everything I ask of him because he is willing and he respect me. If he doesn't know what I want, he may do something wrong but he still tries to do something so he knows he is actually trying, not being a butt.
For my horse Brisco before we had our 'bond.' He didn't have much respect for anyone. He did little 2'' rears that used to scare me half to death and do these really nice reining spins I can never get him to do when I ask him to. He did that and much more every time he didn't wanna go foreword or do as I asked. Well, I kept riding and asking him foreword until he knew I wasn't giving up and he reluctantly did as i asked. 
With more training with him he has learned to respect me more and now he hardly does any of his little tricks. Which that tells me that if I wanted to I could create a bond now. I do have one with my horse, and he is an angel. You wouldn't believe how bad he could be.

I also think that horses know when you are showing off. For instance, when you did a beautiful gallop across the arena and then go across a jump and continue galloping, you have a strong feeling you can show your mom and friends now. So now, with them all watching, you do exactly as you did before, but your horse doesn't - instead he goes back to his backing up and more of his little tricks. ( So I suggest to ask them you all watch without looking like they are watching, hehe!!)

Well, I hope this helped you!


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I think a bond has almost nothing to do with a horse listening and riding correctly (or being trained to do so). I do have a bond with my horse, because he's my partner, companion, riding buddy, pet, etc and I don't even want to calculate how many hundreds of hours we've spent in each other's company. He will ride for anyone though- so long as you have some idea of what you're doing and walk up to him as though you're sure you're in charge, he'll do what you say without complaint. He wants a leader, any leader, and will work correctly for them. He's not everyone's buddy though.

On the flip side, I don't try to become buddies with anyone else's horse. A) They're not mine and it's not my place, and B) Why get attached to an animal I have no say over and who can/will leave soon enough? I do have working relationships with many of them though. They see me at the gate and know better than to crowd. They know to stand off and stand down when I am guarding my gelding when I feed him in pasture. 

A couple of them I have even ridden, and after that I have found those horses to have an even greater respect and willingness to work with or for me on the ground. Like they recognize and remember that I was firm and fair and they could understand what I wanted (or so I flatter myself to think), so that they are happy to follow my lead. I appreciate it as it makes them a pleasure to work with, but we're still not buddies or "bonded." It's just a good, professional working relationship.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Funny I was just pondering this very question a few days ago. While I know that Walka trusts me and for the most part respects me (I say for the most part because of the behavior demonstrated on our last trail ride was totally a 180 - but I figured that one out), I know he is bonded with me. He will always come to be where I am and just likes to be near me. Fine until he also decides to help me , like moving the wheel barrel. 

Misty , my new mare, has certainly shown that she trusts me and does respect me, but I don't see that bond. She is happy to see me, mostly because I mean she will be fed (yes, she is very food motivated), but she does come to me as soon as she sees me enter the field too. I think it's just her personality being a bit aloof, but as long as she demonstrates a good work attitude and minds her manners, I don't really need a bond with her, or Walka for that matter. 

I , like so many of you, place the value on the quality of the work relationship. Hard working, honest horses are my goal. Being a consistent and worthy partner to them is mine.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

How do you define "bond" though? In the situation of a horse and rider, I would define bond as "a good working relationship built on trust and respect where the 2 parties enjoy each other's company".

IMHO, if the horse follows you around for treats but bucks you off when you ask for the canter, then you don't have a bond any more than a person who feels absolutely nothing for their horse but the horse is still completely obedient to every subtle cue.

I frequently bonded with my customer horses when they came in for training. I learned their little quirks and their attitudes/temperaments and worked with them to make them better. They learned to respect and trust me to get them through whatever, even if it was scary. I enjoyed their company and they would frequently halter themselves when I went to catch them.

Then there are horses that you can have a great working relationship with but no bond. I am that way with my Dad's horse, Pokey. He and I can work well together to get just about any job done. He's certainly not lacking training or respect or trust...but he doesn't enjoy the company of humans and I don't particularly like being around him because of that. If I need him, I'll use him, but I much prefer Rafe or Dobe, who enjoy human contact and really give me feedback on what they think of the situation and/or my riding.

IMHO, respect and trust come first, the bond will come later...or not at all, but that shouldn't stop you from being able to get along just fine with a horse. Some bonds happen in a matter of hours spent together, some take weeks or months, others never really get there.

Personally, I won't fault a recreational rider for selling a horse they don't bond with. After all, if you don't enjoy the company of the horse (or he doesn't enjoy yours), then you'll never be truly happy with him and you'll always wish he was more.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ I wouldn't fault a recreational rider who never formed a bond with their horse for selling it...but I do get tired of the folks who complain they've had a horse for 2 weeks and don't have a bond. Heck, I felt some bond with Mia from the first, but it took 4 months before she would stop sweating herself into a lather just standing in a corral by herself. 

We just got back from a short trail ride that included my wife riding Cowboy - something that happens a half dozen times each year. Cowboy was given to us when he was about 14, and the woman who gave him to us knew of at least 6 previous owners, not counting the BLM. Cowboy would panic if by himself in the arena and tried to fight the other (and much larger) horses. It was 2 years ago on Dec 2 that this picture of him was taken while he bolted with my DIL around the arena:








​ 
This hideous looking picture was taken perhaps 5 minutes later, when I was trying to help him to remember how to stop:








​ 
The good news was he started stopping OK a few minutes later...but he was NOT a trusting horse. BTW - that horrible picture was with one of those gentle and kind snaffles...but in my defense, I was just holding the bit at that point. He was doing all the pulling...

2 years later, he still gets nervous if someone raises their voice. But he is also a horse I feel comfortable letting my '6 times a year on a horse' wife ride out on a trail with us. He now gets along with the other horses. One can find the 3 of them standing side-by-side, swatting flies off of each others' faces. When I 'kiss', he knows HIS food has arrived, and he'll trot over. He has always been a good trail horse, but my wife rode him solo in the arena for a few minutes today - something he has never done without some galloping. But he understood what was going on, knew the other horses were being saddled, and besides - my wife feeds him! She must be OK!

After 2 years, he no longer worries that someone will chase him around a round pen, like happened during his 'lesson horse' days. My wife even commented on what a good-natured pony he is turning into. But it has been 2 years. We obviously could have made progress faster with training, but my point is that people too often want an instant bond. I had a neighbor who went thru 7 horses in 2 years, and fired the farrier when the farrier finally told her that she was the problem! Sometimes the real horse hiding inside doesn't emerge right away. Some horses change owners without a blink, but some take a while to reveal themselves - for good or bad.

Be a firm but fair owner. By all means, train the horse. Any horse in my price range will need training. And if you (the recreational rider, which is what I am) don't ever click, then feel free to sell your now more obedient horse...but give it a few months at least! I probably wouldn't sell a horse in less than 6 months, and probably not in less than 12. As a recreational rider, I wouldn't feel confident I wasn't selling a possible 'horse of a lifetime' if I sold sooner than that.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think I define bond as mutual trust between me and the horse. I know that Patti will never hurt me deliberately, she knows the same about me. She trusts me to lead her through scary stuff, I trust her to get me through scary terrain without killing me. 

Having said all that, I have to note that Patti is also the horse that caused me to have compartment syndrome and almost lose my leg below the knee 3 years ago. Totally not her fault, she was trying to do what I asked her to do, but she physically could not so she stepped backwards to find a way around the obstacle that I wasn't aware of. Unfortunately she stepped back onto my foot, rocked back on her haunches, pivoted and crushed my foot to smithereens. When I screamed and dropped like a stone that mare jumped around and stood over me until help arrived. She would not leave me and fought to stay with me even as they loaded me onto the helicopter. She figured if I was going in it, she was too. And Patti can be one OPINIONATED mare when she wants to be. 

She'll be for sale when you can pull her lead rope from my dead cold fingers. But she would be an awesome horse even if we didn't have that emotional bond going. She is just a great, willing, and adventuresome horse. Just the kind I love to ride. 

LOL! Now Dunny, a recent acquisition, is not exactly bonded to anyone yet, but she has made it clear that she prefers women. I can scold her, correct her and be very firm with her when needs be and she takes it right in stride. My husband scolded her for being pushy at the gate and made her back up, didn't even swat her, and about an hour later when he went to pet her and say. "Goodnight" she looked right at him and walked over to me and put her chin on my shoulder. She was pouting and pretty much said, "Talk to the hoof, Mr. ". 

Both mares have an excellent work ethic and both are willing to be trained. We won't be selling either of them any time soon.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

A wiser horse person than me once told me: "You don't have to bond with a horse to ride it (well), but you have to be bonded to the horse to ride it exceptionally well." 

I think all trainers to an extent have some sort of bond with the horse, I mean, it's very important to know the quirks so that you can tell when craps hitting the fan in the horses brain! :lol: And I think that when you have a bond with a horse you can get better results or quicker ones. There's a three year old I was working for my boss, even though she was the main trainer every time she asked him to do something it took him twenty minuets to do it. I asked him or did something new and it took him two seconds to get his act together. I did feel a bond with that horse so I think that that contributed to his progress. On the flip side me and my boss could ride another horse and got mediocre results, his owner hopped on and in an hour he was doing what we had taught him 100% better. 

I feel a bond with my mare, heck we fight like cats and dogs sometimes but we both go out of our way to do things for the other. If anyone other than me gets on her they get thrown off. Every trainer, instructor and clinician gets thrown in 2.2 seconds (still have the restraining order a trainer put on her haha). If I put a kid or beginner on and tell her "be good nag" she plods along and doesn't do anything bad. I think that she's found her person and doesn't care for someone else "running" the show or telling her what to do other than me. I think she respects and trusts me and LIKES me even, more than she does other people. (Which is okay because I like her more than most people too! lol)

Just my thoughts!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

To bond is to trust each other, and a horse naturally chooses to trust a good leader, which, in humans, comes from training ourselves to be one. A perfectly trained horse can cause problems to somebody who is out of tune with horses and cannot carry over a message like a leader, and a wildly misbehaving horse may choose to automatically follow somebody, who moves, acts and breathes as a true leader. And out of trust come the best training results. A bond is not rainbows and butterflies, and training the horse alone can also be counterproductive. However, when you combine these two, you get the best results. 

For example, right now I'm training an older mare who had severe issues with lifting her legs for farrier - her answer was kicking violently with all fours and, because of this, she hadn't been trimmed for the previous six years. After four short sessions of groundwork, she was finally trimmed yesterday. Had I jumped straight into trying to lift her legs, she would have become even more sure that humans want to take her mobility away from her, thus have to be fought. Instead, through groundwork and trust building exercises, I aimed to gain her trust as a leader that I am going to protect her, not to harm her, and that my intentions are always safe for her. I barely had to touch her legs at all, but, when I did, she just lifted them and let herself be trimmed. 

I believe we have bonded quite well, though I have known her for a short time and she is not my horse, just somebody I work with, among others. However, I seek for this kind of bond with all of these horses, because it is what the horses seek in their leader - somebody that can be trusted.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> how important is the bond really and are there other explanations for when horses meet our expectations than that they have a bond with us?


 not important for a working relationship, at all. Its a nice extra, but not necessary. You can have a business partner that you like and work well with. Your relationship is beneficial and productive, you know each others quirks. It works. Or you could become best friends with your business partner, finish each others sentences, want to go out for a beer after work, and take vacations with your families to the same place at the same time every year. The work gets done the same. Its not unpleasant either way. A bit more enjoyable in the second instance, but otherwise the same.

Some horses don't ever bond with a person, for whatever reason. It doesn't make them any less valuable, you just have to not expect it from them.

also, cuddling up to the treat dispenser, and coming running when they know there is food, is not a "bond", its getting what they want. Many owners want the Disney, cuddly, in your face, galloping bareback and bridle less into the sunset thing, and it just not realistic.

Maybe my idea of what a bond is is different from most peoples. I have a bond with my BO's mare. She comes in willingly, and works fantastic for me. Goes where I point her, and works hard. She is more willing for me than others, and I feel like our personalities are similar, so we understand each other, and enjoy each others company. That's my version of a bond. At this moment, she needs quite a bit of work before she is capable of of bridle less riding(way too forwards) and she is so quick on her feet and reactive that galloping along bareback in poor light conditions seems like a great way to have her spook out from under me at speed.:shock:


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## Maryland Rider (Jul 2, 2013)

Bond and hook-up and all these other silly terms you all have covered here doesn't help the riding.
All these horses know what you are all about in the first 10 seconds on their back.
A confident experienced rider will not have any problems on most horses even other's problem horses.
Leadership ,respect, and my space are the first three tasks to master in my opinion.
I think after these are mastered good things begin to go our way.

A real bond could take quite a bit of time to achieve but is a great plus.


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## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

I'm kind of touchy on the bond thing. I really don't know where I stand.

Shakira can be jumped tackless, I often ride her with nothing but a piece of twine. But that doesn't have anything to do bond, a total stranger can ride her the same way if they use the same cues.

Shakira likes to wait for me by the gate when she knows I'm coming home. But that doesn't have anything to do with bonds, I stop and scratch her.

Shakira prefers to stand with me than with the horses over the fence, but that's got nothing to with bond, her fence buddies bully her terribly.


Do I have a bond with her at all?


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

iRide Ponies said:


> I'm kind of touchy on the bond thing. I really don't know where I stand.
> 
> Shakira can be jumped tackless, I often ride her with nothing but a piece of twine. But that doesn't have anything to do bond, a total stranger can ride her the same way if they use the same cues.
> 
> ...



I think this can be a touchy subject for a lot of people. This is why I like to see relationships and training as two separate entities. They can be built in a parallel way, spending time and training your horse in a kind manner can build a better relationship and training at the same time - but they don't necessarily influence each other.
I can tell you I have a Beautiful relationship and bond with one of my horses, but having spent next to no time with him on anything other than cuddles and scratches he's VERY poorly trained, but we love each other an awful lot. While my best trained horse I love him an awful lot - he tolerates me an awful lot  
You can have a beautiful relationship with a horse, you can have a beautifully trained horse and you can have both or you can have neither.
They aren't connected.


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## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

Agree with punk.


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## livelovelaughride (Sep 13, 2011)

Many deep thoughts on this thread!
Its been my observation some horses especially like and enjoy their human interactions, and some, not so much. There was a gelding at my barn whose owner would enjoy riding, but she never spent time with him doing any "bonding" activities. He was obedient for her, but always appeared somewhat listless. He was hard to engage with unless you had food. Fast forward to now, he's been my partner for 18 months. Still just as obedient, but now with a bright and shiny personality. For us, bonding was the product of consistent handling, respect, and trust. And lots of TLC didn't hurt!


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

"Bond" is s term that the NH trainers came up with....to go along with the whole ideal that "natural" is better and it makes a person FEEL better about what they do with their horses, because in fact...none of it is natural at all. It just makes us all "warm and fuzzy" inside.

Anyhow, "bond" and good solid training are two separate things and have nothing to do with one another. A well trained horse will perform whether there is a "bond" or not....for the owner, for the trainer, or for anyone else that swings a leg over and knows what buttons to push. My horse and I have a partnership....based on mutual respect, trust, understanding, and top of the line training.


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## corymbia (Jul 6, 2011)

Wow- lots of very thoughtful replies. I think what we call the bond is simply a positive association between us and outcomes the horse values- be it food, companionship, scratches etc. Some horses value some of these (eg good) more than others and maybe for some horses being with us is aversive and they genuinely don't find what we offer very rewarding. 

I've been working with a very nervy stockhorse for the past year who is like that. He is fantastic to ride- very calm and responsive, but on the ground he'd still rather be anywhere but with me-even when he is hungry and I am the one with the food. He'll tolerate me touching him and I've used clicker training to habituate him to all manner of things that scare him but when given the choice he will always walk away from me. Interestingly he regresses when his lovely and gentle owner comes out to see him which is hard for her to take at times when she's driven for an hour only to have her horse run away from her. Given its me that mainly rides and trains him and frequently makes him work or exposes him to scary things it should be his owner he'd rather spend time with since she rarely makes his life challenging. Which suggest to me its the training, habits and familiarity with me that is the difference- not the bond. When he's hard to catch (often) I don't think its him disrespecting me, just that even now he finds being in close with a human scary and consequently staying away rewarding. I'd like to think at some point there was something I could give him or do that he genuinely liked but it could be that due to temperament and past experiences he is never going to develop that positive association that could be called a bond.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

corymbia said:


> .....Interestingly *he regresses when his lovely and gentle owner comes out to see him* which is hard for her to take at times when she's driven for an hour only to have her horse run away from her. Given *its me that mainly rides and trains him and frequently makes him work or exposes him to scary things* it should be his owner he'd rather spend time with since she rarely makes his life challenging. Which suggest to me its the training, habits and familiarity with me that is the difference- not the bond.....


Actually, being "lovely and gentle" generally aren't the things that horses value. Sure, most horses appreciate a scratch in their favorite place or being fed their favorite treat, but as prey animals, they desire to be in a herd with a confident and strict leader. They like to know their place, so once you've shown them that you are the alpha and you can be the confident leader they seek, then they'll respect you and be more comfortable spending time around you.

If the handler isn't confident, then the horse will either remain skittish, almost thinking "ZOMG, this person has no idea what they're doing, they're going to get me killed and eaten, I'd be better off on my own". OR, the horse will take charge and become the alpha themselves; "If this person isn't going to be the leader, then I will and I'll make them do what _I_ want to do". Which way it goes depends on the horse's personality.


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## crazeepony (Dec 8, 2013)

My friend told me a story of their husband's horse. Totally "bonded" to him but hated her with a passion and would go out of his way to make her life hell. To make something obey is one thing, but to have something work with you is another. I have worked with border collies and livestock that are the same way. A trainer can get the collie to do amazing things because they are more skilled but what the handler and that dog has something that goes beyond that. That is why many good dog handlers will sell the easy ones and stick with some crazy project. I think it is because we value the bond beyond the training. When you get a hold of crazy- it will go over the top for you! It is something special even if it isn't perfect. I think it appeals to our ego as well. :wink:


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## Paradise (Jun 28, 2012)

I do agree fully with the statement 'you ride the training not the bond'. One mare I have now I just don't click with at all, I'm not fond of her and I'm selling her as soon as I can, but I know I can throw a saddle on her after a month off and head out to the trails because of her training.

BUT, having said that, I don't discount the value of a relationship with a horse. Young and unbroke horses are just so much easier to work with when they know you and trust you. It often doesn't take long to win them over, but consistency is key. If I were to climb onaa baby for the first time I'm not sure I would expect the same level of comfort and confidence from the horse the next day if a stranger walked up and did the same thing.

The better you and your horses know each other, the more easily you're going to understand and communicate. I don't know if that's what would be classed as a 'bond', but you all know what I mean.

You don't need to have a bond to train (though you form a relationship through the training, definitely) or training to form a bond, but together they definitely make things a lot simpler.

JMO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I really dislike the word bond when it comes to horses. I think it implies something way more magical than it really is.

There are horses I ride, and some I own, that I like or dislike but I can get the job done on them regardless. 
My Stilts horse, I love him and get excited when I ride him. He is one of those horses that tries his hardest to please you, smart, sensitive and loves his job. He is fun to ride! 
I could sit here and tell you that he wants to please me because we have a "bond", but honestly he would do the same for anyone else _if_ I let them ride him 
Same with a yearling that I bought last summer, he is a lot like Stilts (but scary smart, and already aggressive towards cattle) and I can't wait to start him and get him going!
Then another three year old I bought, by all means I should love to ride him, he wants to stop big, bred well, easy going and kind but I have a hard time making myself go and ride him. I put a half dozen rides on him and turned him out. It's not that I don't like him and he's going to be a nice horse but to me- he's just another horse.
Perhaps that will change once I really start riding him because to me riding and training on them is when I really feel for a horse, not so much sitting out in the field petting on them.


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

Quick Answer... YES THE BOND IS EVERYTHING!!! A Horse Respects You If You Respect It... For Example Understanding Eye Contact, Automatic Bond Its Simple Nature... Top Trainers Are Top Trainers Because They Know How To Bond With More Than One Horse At A Time Intantly To Train... Thats Why They Are Top Trainers. Thats Why They Have Stable Hands To Shorten Their Day... They Are There To HELP. My Trainer Respects Me+My Horse Bond And Always Asks Never TELLS And If I Dont Get It Or Vice Versa He Shows Me... Again A Good Trainer And Respectfully Bonds. 

Would You Get On A Horse You Didnt Trust? And Again Vice Versa You Either Click Or You Dont.

Hope That Helps


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ Maybe the horses in Australia are different than the ones I meet here in Arizona...:?


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Pheonix82, why did you decide to capitalize EVERY word? Its confusing to read, and an incorrect use of capitalization in the English language. Please don't, its much easier to read without.



> Top Trainers Are Top Trainers Because They Know How To Bond With More Than One Horse At A Time Intantly To Train...


 I'm getting tired of this type of mentality. No one "Intantly"(instantly I assume?) trains horses. And ask top trainers. There are some very good trainers on this forum. I would bet a large sum of money that none, or at least very, very few, would put any emphasis on a bond. I think that the vast majority do not have any sort of 'bond' with the horses they train, nor do they want to cultivate one.

There is a difference between a good working relationship, with mutual respect and trust, and the 'magical' Disney bond that so many inexperienced horse people put so much emphasis on.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You tend to develop a bond with the horses you own long term because its something you build on, it comes from familiarity and knowing exactly what they'll do next which increases your trust in them and their trust in you but when we bought horses to sell and took in horses to break or school the relationship was very different, you can't afford to get attached to anything but you still have to get them going really well and expect good manners often in quite a short time so it then all comes down to experience, consistency and training


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## crazeepony (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't know. I was just talking to someone today that was retelling me about a horse she had. She took him everywhere. She said that they were like one. Something like that is rare. I know in my sheep dog days, every famous handler had one dog that was special. After that, they were always looking for another like "old Shep" but never quite finding it. Maybe in our quest for perfection, we may miss "the bond." I think it exists but not for everyone.


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

Phoenix82 said:


> Quick Answer... YES THE BOND IS EVERYTHING!!! A Horse Respects You If You Respect It... For Example Understanding Eye Contact, Automatic Bond Its Simple Nature... Top Trainers Are Top Trainers Because They Know How To Bond With More Than One Horse At A Time Intantly To Train... Thats Why They Are Top Trainers. Thats Why They Have Stable Hands To Shorten Their Day... They Are There To HELP. My Trainer Respects Me+My Horse Bond And Always Asks Never TELLS And If I Dont Get It Or Vice Versa He Shows Me... Again A Good Trainer And Respectfully Bonds.
> 
> Would You Get On A Horse You Didnt Trust? And Again Vice Versa You Either Click Or You Dont.
> 
> Hope That Helps


No. A good trainer doesn't "bond" with every horse they work with. A good trainer has learned how to tweak their training/riding style to get the best out of whatever horse they are working with at the time.


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## Heleen Strydom (Sep 2, 2013)

This is an issue I also wonder about... My friend has two horses and jumps them competitively. He also has a personal groom who takes care of the poop scooping, grooming, feeding etc. When he goes to practise, the already tacked horse awaits him at the mounting block. He literally hands the reins to groom as soon as he gets of the horse. He has absolutely no difficulty handling either of his horses.

I on the other hand... I have to horses. My mare is 7yo and I CAN NOT get her to go forward. At all. I don't have a groom and takes care of EVERYTHING myself. My horses are used for pleasure rides (trail) only. The mare seems to love me, she comes to meet me, she loves being groomed. I feed her and she gives hugs constantly and spontaneously. But I can not handle her at all!!!

Obviously I prefer the gelding who loves the outrides. But still it feels like I have a closer bond with the mare than gelding...??? How does it work???

Maybe it comes down to the training?


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

BlueSpark said:


> Pheonix82, why did you decide to capitalize EVERY word? Its confusing to read, and an incorrect use of capitalization in the English language. Please don't, its much easier to read without.
> 
> I'm getting tired of this type of mentality. No one "Intantly"(instantly I assume?) trains horses. And ask top trainers. There are some very good trainers on this forum. I would bet a large sum of money that none, or at least very, very few, would put any emphasis on a bond. I think that the vast majority do not have any sort of 'bond' with the horses they train, nor do they want to cultivate one.
> 
> There is a difference between a good working relationship, with mutual respect and trust, and the 'magical' Disney bond that so many inexperienced horse people put so much emphasis on.


Love this post! Yea, a "bond" has nothing to do with, but top notch training from a skillful trainer does.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Phoenix82 said:


> Quick Answer... YES THE BOND IS EVERYTHING!!! A Horse Respects You If You Respect It... For Example Understanding Eye Contact, Automatic Bond Its Simple Nature... Top Trainers Are Top Trainers Because They Know How To Bond With More Than One Horse At A Time Intantly To Train... Thats Why They Are Top Trainers. Thats Why They Have Stable Hands To Shorten Their Day... They Are There To HELP. My Trainer Respects Me+My Horse Bond And Always Asks Never TELLS And If I Dont Get It Or Vice Versa He Shows Me... Again A Good Trainer And Respectfully Bonds.
> 
> Would You Get On A Horse You Didnt Trust? And Again Vice Versa You Either Click Or You Dont.
> 
> Hope That Helps


I've gotten on many horses without knowing much more about them than their name, age, breed and training level. I worked at a Girl Scout horse camp and would school the naughty horses when they would act up. Not once did I "bond" with any of those mares before swinging up and going to work. They knew what was expected of them and either performed or got the tar worked out of them until they did. 

I'm not "bonded" with my best friend's three horses (two mares and a gelding), but I can still go out and halter any of the three (even the two mares at the same time) and lunge them or work with them knowing that they will do as they're told.

None of that is a "bond." It's earning the horse's respect by not letting it get away with anything and being a confident leader.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Phoenix82 said:


> Quick Answer...
> 1)YES THE BOND IS EVERYTHING!!! A Horse Respects You If You Respect It...
> 2)For Example Understanding Eye Contact, Automatic Bond Its Simple Nature...
> 3)Top Trainers Are Top Trainers Because They Know How To Bond With More Than One Horse At A Time Intantly To Train...
> 4)Would You Get On A Horse You Didnt Trust?


Please forgive me for rearranging your posts in bullet points, but it will make it so much easier for me to respond to this.
1) WRONG, horses respect me because I *DEMAND *it, and will tolerate nothing less.
2) the mystical, magical bond is a construct. My horse and I do we have a bond, yes we do, but it was built based on me being the boss, and certainly was instant, immediate, or magical. It took hard work, over time. Our "bond" (I really hate that word, btw), is smrobs definition of the word, not pretty ponies farting rainbows. In fact, ask my wife, the one thing she is really disappointed about with Jackson, is he doesn't like being loved on.
3) Really? My wife and I run DFW Horsetraining, and while we are not setting the world on fire, we make a decent side income at it. At any given time we will have 2-5 horses in training we do not "bond" with them, we train them.
4) Couldn't train if we didn't. It takes quite a little while for me to trust a horse, they have to earn it, I don't just give it.


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

There is a difference between a good working relationship, with mutual respect and trust, and the 'magical' Disney bond that so many inexperienced horse people put so much emphasis on.[/QUOTE]

I Say This With Respect!!! Dont Freak Out On Me...

PLEASE!!! Why whenever the word "BOND" Is used do people think of fairys and loved up hippys with no back bone????

A "BOND" Is mutual Respect... Like A simple understanding of eachother A quicker way of saying all the other emo length saga drama fiasco causing DRAMA!!!

And yes You were correct in my typo. Thanks For Clarifying That 

If you have a green horse on your hands and your trainer can not tame it WHAT DO YOU HAVE??? Sausages...

If you cant "click" "BOND" or have a working relaionship with your horse in any way shape or form there is "NO BOND"!!!

For example... If your horse pins his ears back HE DOSENT LIKE YOU!!! If he makes eye contact and responds to your every comand wiith his ears forward... GUESS WHAT??? YOU HAVE A BOND!!! YaY!!! 

I knew a girl once at pony club, the horse I had back then HATED her for some reason... Kicked her in the arm... Broke it... It used to take 3 men to saddle him for me... GUESS WHAT??? I broke him at 7... ME!!! He had a bond with me we clicked... Nobody else could get near him... Hows that for DISNEY??? 
xoxo


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

Couldn't train if we didn't. It takes quite a little while for me to trust a horse, they have to earn it, I don't just give it.[/QUOTE]

Please What Is This Train Ride Of "BOND" Meand DISNEY???

Anywho.. The second you make eye contact you have some form of bond with that other human/horse/animal... Whatever... Wether it be good, bad or indifferent... Mabey You should explore that... As the quote above tells me you do belive in bonds... And no I wouldnt say thats a fuzzy dream...

xoxo


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

BlueSpark said:


> There is a difference between a good working relationship, with mutual respect and trust, and the 'magical' Disney bond that so many inexperienced horse people put so much emphasis on.


Please read above post I mucked up the "Quote" Im new here... :lol:


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

6gun Kid said:


> Couldn't train if we didn't. It takes quite a little while for me to trust a horse, they have to earn it, I don't just give it.


Please read above post I mucked up the "Quote" Im new here... :lol: 

But thanks also for the DEMAND!!! I have been having trouble keeping my "Fight levels" equal to me "Fight levels". I Found what you said usefull.


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## DiamondJumper (Jan 16, 2010)

I think a bond is beneficial for big successes. A bond for me is knowing your horse, your horse knowing you and the two of you liking each other. I don't want a robot horse, I want a thinking horse that is willing to think _with me_. You don't need a bond with a horse if all you want to do is go out and compete in riding as a sport, or to enjoy relaxing in nature on a trail. A well trained horse will do those things for a competent rider.

But I have found bonds incredibly important if you want to move on from the idea that the horse is simply there for human pleasure. Horses are incredibly capable of thinking for themselves and if you can get a horse to understand how to think with you and give them a reason to, they offer more. A horse won't bond with someone they don't respect and that's where proper handling and horsemanship comes in. But I also know Diamond has had some of the top riders in the area handle him and he never freely offers behaviors to them like he does with me, and his expression was much more negative. BUT on top of that, Diamond is extremely slow to warm up to people. He's naturally the kind of horse that listens but if you want his genuine respect and not just his listening-because-he-knows-he-should, then you need to put in more time just getting to know him.
Some horses just genuinely like all people and when a n especially good horseperson comes along they light up like a light bulb. The whole one-bond-and-only-one isn't something that would ever cross their mind.
Then there are horses like Diamond who behave for all people reasonably well, but really light up with the bond
ANY horse is going to respond better to a more adept horse person who communicates clearly, no matter what kind of bond they have with their owner. You can love a child to death, but when you want someone to give you instructions on how to do something, are you going to want instructions from a two year old or from an adult with experience and a full vocabulary? 

To me training is what the horse does when you ask it. A bond is what the horse offers you freely themselves.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Not trying to be rude, seriously. But I am afraid I do not understand your replies. I get the not understanding quotes part, but I am at a loss for the rest.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Phoenix82 said:


> ...If you have a green horse on your hands and your trainer can not tame it WHAT DO YOU HAVE??? Sausages...
> 
> If you cant "click" "BOND" or have a working relaionship with your horse in any way shape or form there is "NO BOND"!!!
> 
> For example... If your horse pins his ears back HE DOSENT LIKE YOU!!! If he makes eye contact and responds to your every comand wiith his ears forward... GUESS WHAT??? YOU HAVE A BOND!!! YaY!!!...


1 - If I have a green horse my trainer cannot train, I need a new trainer. With the exception of a few psycho horses, which are rare, a trainer ought to be able to train most any horse to a non-sausage level.

2 - You can have a working relationship with a horse who dislikes you. The favorite horse of a rancher friend of mine started as a horse who hated him and other humans. He'd bite, kick, etc. However, he also loved to work very rough cattle, and he liked going out for 30-50 mile rides. Over time, he became the horse my friend turned to when he needed hard work done, and over more time, he noticed the horse no longer bit him or kicked at him. Years later, he has a picture of the now dead horse on his wall, with a frame made from the horse's hair. He'll tell you he has already ridden the finest horse he'll ever meet.

3 - That horse's son Trooper is a much, much milder horse. Trooper doesn't like me. I think he considers me a rival for our mare Mia. I'm the one who regularly takes 'his love' away from him. Trooper is NOT my friend. At best, he tolerates me.

However, I can ride him just fine. He'll work as hard or harder for me than for my daughter, whom he considers to be a minor deity. In truth, he gives a pretty good effort for any mildly competent rider.

Mia & I probably have a bond. We certainly do by your definition. Yet Trooper is a vastly more trustworthy trail horse for me than Mia is. Trooper is a vastly more trustworthy trail horse for ANYONE than Mia is...or ever will be. Mia's problems have nothing to do with like or trust. She has deep fears which are slowly working their way out - as in over years. The strength of her emotions make her both a fun horse to ride and a risky horse to ride, because her emotions can still overcome her current level of training. And riding 3-4 times a week may not be enough to calm her down quickly. What she really needs isn't a bond, but a job on a ranch that keeps her working 10+ hour days until she gives up her fears. That is a form of TRAINING, not a form of a BOND. 

Training and temperament make a safe horse. In many, maybe most cases, training and temperament combine for a top performance. Horses don't think, "I like you, therefor I obey you!" They do not think, "I trust you, therefor I'll obey you even when I'm really scared!" It takes training - a habit of obedience to cues that has become so strong as to be unbreakable - to keep a horse obeying when afraid.

Ride the training, not the bond. Ride the back, not the head. Those two simple statements would correct a great many faults in modern riding...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

From another thread:



bsms said:


> ...I'm not convinced what a fearful horse really needs in trust in his rider as an individual. I think it is training that builds confidence in a generic rider. Cavalry horses were ridden thru incredible terrain, and they were not taught to trust "A" rider. They were simply trained to do whatever ANY rider told them to do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://www.horseforum.com/natural-h...li-what-differences-there-370290/#post4852514


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Anywho.. The second you make eye contact you have some form of bond with that other human/horse/animal... Whatever... Wether it be good, bad or indifferent...


 I have no idea what this means. If you look at dictionary definitions of the word 'bond' there is no definition that makes sense with this statement. I look probably 20 strangers in the eye every day, and I would never claim to have a 'bond' with any of them. How can you have a 'bad bond', or an 'indifferent bond'??

The "Bond" between horse and handler has become a touchy subject, because so many newbies expect a magical connection between horse and rider. Disney(entertainment in general) has portrayed this magical 'bond' many times, as an instant connection and almost telepathic understanding of each other. Think my friend flicka, the black stallion, etc, etc, where that instant, unrealistic connection enabled the rider to do anything with the horse, without any of the time or training such trust actually takes. Alec can ride the Black, a stallion notorious for being unmanageable, even causing someone's death, completely bareback and tack-less, because the stallion 'wants' to listen to Alec. Kind of ridiculous. Far too many people take the fictional stories seriously.

I have seen people refuse to buy, or who quickly resell, a horse that was perfect for them because they did not feel a 'bond' in the first few rides. To me this is every bit as ridiculous as refusing to date someone who looks, acts and is every way suitable as a future partner, all because it wasn't love at first sight and you didn't instantly finish each others sentences. Relationships take time.



> PLEASE!!! Why whenever the word "BOND" Is used do people think of fairys and loved up hippys with no back bone????


 see above explanation.



> A "BOND" Is mutual Respect... Like A simple understanding of eachother


 perhaps a different word would convey your meaning better. 



> For example... If your horse pins his ears back HE DOSENT LIKE YOU!!! If he makes eye contact and responds to your every comand wiith his ears forward... GUESS WHAT??? YOU HAVE A BOND!!! YaY!!!


 a) the pinning of ears indicates displeasure, anger, etc. It means the horse is upset, not necessarily does it dislike you. For example, my filly was very naughty yesterday, was in a frisky mood and was upset with me asking her to behave. Several times she had her ears pinned at me to show her displeasure. I have no doubt that I still have a fine relationship with my filly. In contrast I knew a mare that had her ears forward whenever she was focused. She had been massively spoiled to the point of being dangerous. At one point she stood with her ears forward while I tacked her up, mounted and asked for forward motion. She kept her ears forward while I got progressively more demanding in asking her to walk on, in fact, her ears were still forward when she flung herself over backwards, crushing her saddle and breaking her bridle. I barely jumped clear. I don't think she liked me...
b)If a horse makes eye contact it is not afraid. Period. Not an indication of trust, in fact, very pushy, aggressive horses will frequently make eye contact. If a horse responds to your every command, it is well trained. No amount of respect or good relationship will fix a lack of training. And again with the ears thing. Watch good trainers train, or high end competitors ride their respectful, responsive horses in a competition. What do you see? A horse that is focused on its rider/handler frequently has its ears *back, *not pricked forward.

a horse that obeys willingly without fear or disrespect is well trained.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Someone else here said they disliked the term "bond" and I have to side with that. Too often it seems to refer to some fairy tale, la-la-land sort of thought.
Do our horses love us? Duno! They love their meal time, a good grooming, and they seem to love following us around the pasture if we have a project there...but I suspect at that point we have become the entertainment for the day. But they do trust and respect us. Do we love them? Yep!!!!

In place of the "bond" thing, I prefer to think of our relationship with the horses as a lopsided partnership, with us having the controlling share.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Phoenix--There are more reasons for a horse to pin their ears than simply "he doesn't like you".

Anyway! I can't remember if I posted earlier in this thread... So I'm going to do it regardless. xD

Do I want a horse to like me? Yes. I want us to both enjoy the time that we spend together. I guess you could call that a bond?

That said, it seems silly to think that the only way to make any progress with a horse is to "bond" with them. If you are a trainer, and a client is paying you to make progress with their horse, it really doesn't matter if the horse likes you or not. You still have to make that progress, or give up that business.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Phoenix82 said:


> Couldn't train if we didn't. It takes quite a little while for me to trust a horse, they have to earn it, I don't just give it.


Please What Is This Train Ride Of "BOND" Meand DISNEY???

Anywho.. *The second you make eye contact you have some form of bond with that other human/horse/animal...* Whatever... Wether it be good, bad or indifferent... Mabey You should explore that... As the quote above tells me you do belive in bonds... And no I wouldnt say thats a fuzzy dream...

xoxo[/QUOTE]

HUH??? It only means you've made eye contact and that's it. Eye contact is a form of COMMUNICATION, and you seem to be confusing it with the human emotion of "bonding'.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

You can have eye contact with a stranger but that doesn't mean you have a bond. If you keep eye contact, you are giving your attention to them. Still no bond. Having a bond or relationship or wanting to be near takes time. So does trust. Respect can be given in an instant or develop over time. 

A trainer doesn't have time to bond with a horse. They get the horse to work for them because they can communicate with the horse and the horse understands. No bond or relationship. The trainer shows the horse who's in charge. They don't need to be friends or besties to get the job done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I could give several stories of making eye contact with a horse and not creating a bond. 

Take my horse Jewel. She was a rescue and very afraid of humans. I spent most of the first year trying to connect with her and get her to feel comfortable. I tried just spending time with her, feeding and giving treats. Typical "bonding" tricks which I should have known better. It was only when I started working with her that she came around. 

We have a friend that got a horse and I was to start for him. I did just that but didn't try to bond with him because he wasn't my horse. I didn't bond with him but did get him rideable. Since then and with spending time just doing the feeding and watering and checking over the horses, I feel I have a better bond with his horse than he does. The horse comes to me without calling and wants to be near me. 

Our oldest mare is well trained but has a few minor issues. I'm working on them as I can. She is somewhat dominant and wants to have her way. She will throw a tantrum when she doesn't get her way. Get past that and she will do what you ask but with a little resistance. She was spoiled. 

Our grandson came out to ride one time. He took his mare for a walk when we were done riding. I was riding Chloe, our oldest mare, and working on her issues. Our grandson wasn't coming back and couldn't be found. Terrible thoughts of what had happened started going through my mind. I goose Chloe not thinking of what her reaction could be since she wanted to go into the barn to get her tack undone and get her grain. She took off with me like we were in sync. She responded with no hesitation and did everything with just me thinking it. We clicked for that instant. It felt great, especially when we found the grandson was just fine, just hidden. By the way, we had Chloe for about 2 years at that time but never clicked before. She just tolerated us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## danph (Jul 18, 2012)

I get the opposite. When i'm going out to catch a horse and I look em in the eye, they'll usually turn around or run away. Alot of the members are right though. You dont need a "bond" to produce a well broke horse. And please stop capitalizing ever word. It makes me squint to read.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

usandpets said:


> You can have eye contact with a stranger but that doesn't mean you have a bond. If you keep eye contact, you are giving your attention to them. Still no bond. Having a bond or relationship or wanting to be near takes time. So does trust. Respect can be given in an instant or develop over time.
> 
> A trainer doesn't have time to bond with a horse. They get the horse to work for them because they can communicate with the horse and the horse understands. No bond or relationship. The trainer shows the horse who's in charge. They don't need to be friends or besties to get the job done.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Great post! I adopt Rotties, and with some of them....the more intense unwavering eye contact you have, they see it as a challenge....until they know otherwise. So I wouldn't call that a bond just because you lock eyes with an animal or a human.

Looking in a horse's eye and getting their attention, like I said...means communication, and it teaches them focus. I do AQHA Showmanship with my horses, and I maintain eye contact for certain manuevers...particularly the pivot. When I look in my horse's eye and get that contact of communication, and step forward and toward him...he'll spin like a top. I have established a rapport with him, Ive owned him for 13 years now, he's my heart horse, we have a great partnership....unlike any other horse I've owned, but I still don't call it a "bond". Horse's don't understand what a "bond" is, because that's a human term. What they DO understand is a routine, great training, and consistent guidance from it's owner.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_What they DO understand is a routine, great training, and consistent guidance from it's owner._"

I wish this could be the theme of the 'New to Horses' subforum!​


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

Zexious said:


> That said, it seems silly to think that the only way to make any progress with a horse is to "bond" with them. If you are a trainer, and a client is paying you to make progress with their horse, it really doesn't matter if the horse likes you or not. You still have to make that progress, or give up that business.


I honestly think a great trainer is a great trainer because they know how to "conect, correct and give guidance" this is a "BOND" whether it be a "love" bond or a "repect" bond or even a "controll" bond... They are making a conection and taking control. 

My experiance with any horse Ive ever had is IN THE HEAD!!! Mabey I am just more in tune??? Dunno... But accept that, that is me and I move on... Like my Gelding at about 12mnths striked me one day. I needed my trainer and he couldnt get there till the next day. So in forward thinking I tied him up to let him cool down. He was no further danger to me that day as the reason he striked me is because I walked into the pen I had put him into to cool down after his workout and he wanted his food. I droped it from impact when he conected with my shin and I got out of there because he lunged at me and silly me walked in without the ridding crop. Anywho... He was obviously no more threat to him cause I haltered him and tied him up after that (I obviously took the food from him once I had the halter on the little ******). But this is the crunch... He has never once bitten me... Unless we've been goofing around in the paddock... And he grabbed my arm in his mouth one day, to make me run over to his exercise ball with him... Was an accident and the second I said OUCH and turned around he had this WORRY LOOK come over him and he actually wrapped his head around me and hugged me to say sorry. He has NEVER tried to drag me off once I have his halter on NEVER!!! Even at 5 mnths old (when hed never been handled) So after this debarkle I was so mad with him I didnt want to go near him (the day he striked at me for his food). The only person around who was compitent to take him back for me I HATE but Im nice to them cause well Im a nice person and Im not a problem causer like them. Anyway the way back he Bit at them charged them and was compleatly and utterly focused on getting back next to me. (I honestly think this is cause he knew I didnt like them and he may or maynot have realised his mistake) And I still walked back to secure his paddock with them. This showed me for the first time how much he has "BONDED" to me. (Whether he was sorry or not id had enough and it was time to bring the trainer in and I was giving him the cold shoulder) Anyone does anything with him... Hes looking at me the whole time... SERIOUSLY... Even my trainer... He listens and respects my trainer because I TELL HIM TOO... If I dont give him the nod hes unreasonable. He sees me as his leader... He hides behind me when he meet someone new for silly sake... Hes 16hh and 2 now... Im his leader and we "BOND". And a good trainer also respects the "bond" you have with your horse even if you dont want to admit it "Bonds" are there call it what you will... I just think that if you dont have a bond with your horse, you have the wrong horse... You will never trust it, your causing your own stress... Like boyfriends... You either love them or you dont... And lets face it you wont cook for one you don't Love and you leave them to keep looking for your husband... And is it worth the wait... YES!!! I guess some people are liars... And lie to themselves. I see the world differently. :lol:xoxo


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^So... you're telling me that your horse recognizes a nod as a symbol to submit to other individuals...?


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

That's really a first, telling you horse he is allowed to work with others? You horse sounds down right dangerous. He has hurt you AND other people. Frankly he is a walking liability. Horses don't think like we do. He doesn't think "omg, i just hurt my mom!!" Or "I can't work with this person because I love my mom!" He is a horse. Not a human. I bet he runs the show at your place. He bosses all the humans around. If I were you I'd get out of his habit now before you horse ends up like that horse Buck what working with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I just tried to look for the video on youtube but I can't find it. They must have taken it off. I'll give you the condensed version of the story though. Basically this woman rescued a lot horses. She babied the snot out these animals, she gave them zero discipline. Well, this horse became unruly because he was not treated like a horse. She take the horse to Buck Brennaman to "fix" him. While in training I believe there were several "close calls" with him. I think the last straw was when a trainer was trying to move the horse out of his space. The horse attacked the trainer and pinned him to the ground and bit him in the face. *In the end the owner had to put the horse to sleep!* She didn't give this horse what it needed to be a balanced animal. I mean this nicest way possible. Please open your eyes! Your not doing any good to your horse or the people around you. 

Here is the website with the video: BUCK - Buck Brannaman Documentary | Cedar Creek Productions, LLC
The horse I was talking about above is the palomino in the clip. I think the film is super cheap to rent, maybe two or three dollars.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

*FOUND IT*






Ignore the ignoramus laughing in the background. *This is what to much love and spoiling will do to a horse!*


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## DiamondJumper (Jan 16, 2010)

^ Just a little extra info, the horse was brain damaged, orphaned, and a stud colt which I think affected his behavior as much as spoiling. If he'd been appropriately handled, Mr. Brannaman thought the horse would have stood a chance despite these challenges, but poor handling tipped the scale. 
He just wasn't a completely rational, stable horse to start with either.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Woooow.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

" _And he grabbed my arm in his mouth one day, to make me run over to his exercise ball with him... Was an accident and the second I said OUCH and turned around he had this WORRY LOOK come over him and he actually wrapped his head around me and hugged me to say sorry....This showed me for the first time how much he has "BONDED" to me._"​Yep. THAT is about what 'bonding' is worth!" _He listens and respects my trainer because I TELL HIM TOO... If I don't give him the nod he's unreasonable. He sees me as his leader... He hides behind me when he meet someone new for silly sake... he's 16hh and 2 now... Im his leader and we "BOND"._"​Sorry, but there comes a point where I just don't enjoy listening to fantasies.

If he is acting the way you say, you are going to get your butt handed to you soon. And then I read this:"_I Have A 2yr Old Chestnut Paint QH Gelding That Is The Love Of My Life... I Have Had Him Since He Was 5 Mnths Old I Have Imprinted Him And He CHOSE ME And In Turn We Chose Eachother (Cause he's A Bit Of A Stud. And No I Am Not A Weirdo That Is In A Relationship With Their Horse. But We Do Have A Relationship Like Mother And Son Or Besties)... I can lay with him, on him, blah blah blah... _

_ ...BUT HE WONT TAKE A TIGHT GIRTH!!! When I lunge him with a girth on he does the whole I want to roll thing.. He respects the whip (even though he has never gotten it) and now stands butt end in threatening to double barrell, like the full "Pig Root" but wont connect... So It Becomes A Mexican Stand Off (Although I Win Cause He Isnt Rolling And As Long As I don't Raise The Whip He Doesnt Threaten To Kick)_...

_...Because If I Hand Him To My Teacher To Do This I Wont Reap The Respect I Deserve From My Horse To Move Forward With Him And Im Afraid It Will Change Our Bond. After All He Is MY HORSE And Their Is No I In Team So Im Reaching Out._"​http://www.horseforum.com/natural-horsemanship/expiranced-girth-help-2yr-old-paint-369874/

You need some help. Serious help. Soon. As in ASAP. Or you will be hurt. You do not have a bond. You do not even come close to having a bond. You have delusions, and you are well on the way to having a monster.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

DiamondJumper said:


> ^ Just a little extra info, the horse was brain damaged, orphaned, and a stud colt which I think affected his behavior as much as spoiling. If he'd been appropriately handled, Mr. Brannaman thought the horse would have stood a chance despite these challenges, but poor handling tipped the scale.
> He just wasn't a completely rational, stable horse to start with either.


"Brain damage" was an excuse for the damage that the owner caused.
I just don't buy the brain damage story.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

I am afraid that somebody is going to really get hurt.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

COWCHICK77 said:


> "Brain damage" was an excuse for the damage that the owner caused.
> I just don't buy the brain damage story.


There are some horses that just aren't right in the head....I've met a few.

To the OP....wow, is all I can say. You don't own that horse...that horse owns you! There is no bond....just a very spoiled and dangerous horse that has zero respect for you.


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## danph (Jul 18, 2012)

Your "bond"= spoiling
Spoiling+inexperience= injuries.
I don't care who your horse "likes" or "bonds" with, they should never bite or charge. I don't know how long you've had this horse for, but you need to seek professional help or get a new trainer.


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## danph (Jul 18, 2012)

Please seek a new trainer. And if you have one, please listen to them. Your horse should'nt be striking or biting anyone. And if so immediate punishment needs to be applied, which you aren't doing. Probably why hes pushing you and other people around for so long. If my horse struck me, i'd strike right back. You need to take more charge, and learn a horses actual nature. Be a leader more than a friend.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Phoenix82 said:


> I honestly think a great trainer is a great trainer because they know how to "conect, correct and give guidance" this is a "BOND" whether it be a "love" bond or a "repect" bond or even a "controll" bond... They are making a conection and taking control.
> 
> My experiance with any horse Ive ever had is IN THE HEAD!!! Mabey I am just more in tune??? Dunno... But accept that, that is me and I move on... Like my Gelding at about 12mnths striked me one day. I needed my trainer and he couldnt get there till the next day. So in forward thinking I tied him up to let him cool down. He was no further danger to me that day as the reason he striked me is because I walked into the pen I had put him into to cool down after his workout and he wanted his food. I droped it from impact when he conected with my shin and I got out of there because he lunged at me and silly me walked in without the ridding crop. Anywho... He was obviously no more threat to him cause I haltered him and tied him up after that (I obviously took the food from him once I had the halter on the little ******). But this is the crunch... He has never once bitten me... Unless we've been goofing around in the paddock... And he grabbed my arm in his mouth one day, to make me run over to his exercise ball with him... Was an accident and the second I said OUCH and turned around he had this WORRY LOOK come over him and he actually wrapped his head around me and hugged me to say sorry. He has NEVER tried to drag me off once I have his halter on NEVER!!! Even at 5 mnths old (when hed never been handled) So after this debarkle I was so mad with him I didnt want to go near him (the day he striked at me for his food). The only person around who was compitent to take him back for me I HATE but Im nice to them cause well Im a nice person and Im not a problem causer like them. Anyway the way back he Bit at them charged them and was compleatly and utterly focused on getting back next to me. (I honestly think this is cause he knew I didnt like them and he may or maynot have realised his mistake) And I still walked back to secure his paddock with them. This showed me for the first time how much he has "BONDED" to me. (Whether he was sorry or not id had enough and it was time to bring the trainer in and I was giving him the cold shoulder) Anyone does anything with him... Hes looking at me the whole time... SERIOUSLY... Even my trainer... He listens and respects my trainer because I TELL HIM TOO... If I dont give him the nod hes unreasonable. He sees me as his leader... He hides behind me when he meet someone new for silly sake... Hes 16hh and 2 now... Im his leader and we "BOND". And a good trainer also respects the "bond" you have with your horse even if you dont want to admit it "Bonds" are there call it what you will... I just think that if you dont have a bond with your horse, you have the wrong horse... You will never trust it, your causing your own stress... Like boyfriends... You either love them or you dont... And lets face it you wont cook for one you don't Love and you leave them to keep looking for your husband... And is it worth the wait... YES!!! I guess some people are liars... And lie to themselves. I see the world differently. :lol:xoxo


I'm not even sure what to say to this. 

Yes, you see the world differently...and if you don't get it through your rainbow-farts-and-pixie-sneezes head that your horse is majorly disrespectful and a danger to anyone around him, you're going to see the world even more differently. Either from a wheelchair or from a coffin. 

Unfortunately, you're the only one lying to yourself, and it's going to end up getting you hurt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Phoenix82 said:


> I honestly think a great trainer is a great trainer because they know how to "conect, correct and give guidance" this is a "BOND" whether it be a "love" bond or a "repect" bond or even a "controll" bond... They are making a conection and taking control.
> 
> My experiance with any horse Ive ever had is IN THE HEAD!!! Mabey I am just more in tune??? Dunno... But accept that, that is me and I move on... Like my Gelding at about 12mnths striked me one day. I needed my trainer and he couldnt get there till the next day. So in forward thinking I tied him up to let him cool down. He was no further danger to me that day as the reason he striked me is because I walked into the pen I had put him into to cool down after his workout and he wanted his food. I droped it from impact when he conected with my shin and I got out of there because he lunged at me and silly me walked in without the ridding crop. Anywho... He was obviously no more threat to him cause I haltered him and tied him up after that (I obviously took the food from him once I had the halter on the little ******). But this is the crunch... He has never once bitten me... Unless we've been goofing around in the paddock... *And he grabbed my arm in his mouth one day, to make me run over to his exercise ball with him... Was an accident and the second I said OUCH and turned around he had this WORRY LOOK come over him and he actually wrapped his head around me and hugged me to say sorry.* He has NEVER tried to drag me off once I have his halter on NEVER!!! Even at 5 mnths old (when hed never been handled) So after this debarkle I was so mad with him I didnt want to go near him (the day he striked at me for his food). The only person around who was compitent to take him back for me I HATE but Im nice to them cause well Im a nice person and Im not a problem causer like them. *Anyway the way back he Bit at them charged them and was compleatly and utterly focused on getting back next to me. (I honestly think this is cause he knew I didnt like them and he may or maynot have realised his mistake)* And I still walked back to secure his paddock with them. This showed me for the first time how much he has "BONDED" to me. (Whether he was sorry or not id had enough and it was time to bring the trainer in and I was giving him the cold shoulder) *Anyone does anything with him... Hes looking at me the whole time... SERIOUSLY... Even my trainer... He listens and respects my trainer because I TELL HIM TOO... If I dont give him the nod hes unreasonable. He sees me as his leader... He hides behind me when he meet someone new for silly sake..*. Hes 16hh and 2 now... Im his leader and we "BOND". And a good trainer also respects the "bond" you have with your horse even if you dont want to admit it "Bonds" are there call it what you will... I just think that if you dont have a bond with your horse, you have the wrong horse... You will never trust it, your causing your own stress... Like boyfriends... You either love them or you dont... And lets face it you wont cook for one you don't Love and you leave them to keep looking for your husband... And is it worth the wait... YES!!! I guess some people are liars... And lie to themselves. I see the world differently. :lol:xoxo


Everything I bolded...this is a joke right? You can't be serious.


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## aerie (Jul 19, 2010)

I have been stalking this thread for a little bit and just needed to jump in...

Phoenix, I don't want to be rude and I think it is wonderful that you love your horse so much but you need to know that these things that you think are "cute" or that make your "bond" is dangerous. These are all signs of a spoiled and disrespectful horse just like everyone else has been saying.

A great bond/relationship comes from having a well behaved/trained horse that respects you. Horses do NOT think like humans, you really need to stop anthropomorphizing your gelding and start treating him like a horse, not a human. Take some time and watch a group of horses in the field. Seriously take a chair and chill outside the fence and just observe. Watch how they play, eat, fight, and generally interact then come back and tell me what horse is alpha and how they treat each other as opposed to how you are treating your gelding.


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## DiamondJumper (Jan 16, 2010)

COWCHICK77 said:


> "Brain damage" was an excuse for the damage that the owner caused.
> I just don't buy the brain damage story.


 The owner had issues. No arguing that point in any world. 

Buck (the trainer) himself publically stated that the horse was born not breathing (so oxygen deprivation), and described him as having a learning disability. I'm not a Buck uberfan, but Mr. Brannaman does have lots of experience dealing with horses and he readily believed the horse had some kind of mental disability.


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## horsemanship91 (Aug 12, 2013)

Hello everybody, 
I'm a horse trainer for about 3 years now. A bond can be created by grooming, feeding, cleaning stalls etc. but it will only be a very simple bond. To create a positive strong and trusting bond you will need to earn the horses respect. Once respect is established, a positive trusting bond can be established during training. I give the horses breaks where I take all the pressure off the horse (looking at the ground, change my body posture or pet it) then I want the horse to relax, lick its lips and fell save and secure with me. By having the respect you also get a horse that is willing and watches you all the time, which also creates a bond.
I’m sorry for my bad grammar, English is my 2nd language J
Here are some results: 
(They are trained without treats, just with respect and body language) 












 
@ GtaDunQH This Is hilarious. Whoever said that is completely wrong. This person needs some help.


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

Zexious said:


> ^So... you're telling me that your horse recognizes a nod as a symbol to submit to other individuals...?


 
Yes... Zexious. But Funny Enough Only From Me... 

And To All The Other Bloggers In This Post... That Have Replied To Me In Any Way Shape Or Form In Negative Light... I AM NOT The OP. And Half Of You Havent Read The OP Or The FEED PROPERLY. I have seen all of Buck's stuff too... That horse was a dummy foal... CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS??? Plus She raised Him IN HER OWN HOUSE LITTERALLY!!! Ive done my horse science so Im well aware of what a dummy foal is... And you can be **** sure I know a dangerous horse when I see one. Im used to dealing with 2yo Colts straight off the track... And I Treat All Horses, Like Horses... Including My Own AS A HORSE!!! When I Say "Besties" I Mean As Close As A Horse And Owner Can Be. How It Became "I Know Nothing And Im Deluded" I Dont Know... But Thanks For Thinking The Worst Of Me Guys... So If I seem rainbow Deluded??? Its the way you see it, NOT ME!!! Mabey read my posts correctly and see that I am not the original OP and take what I say as what I say. Ask me what you dont see clear here and not make out that Im some air head that has no experiance... Sorry I talk like a human and not a "Professional Wrestler" Or "Jail bait". But Before You Go Flying Off The Handle About Something CLARIFY WHAT YOUR FLYING OFF THE HANDLE ABOUT!!! Thanks  Peace Out xoxo


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm not even sure what to say to this.
> 
> Yes, you see the world differently...and if you don't get it through your rainbow-farts-and-pixie-sneezes head that your horse is majorly disrespectful and a danger to anyone around him, you're going to see the world even more differently. Either from a wheelchair or from a coffin.
> 
> ...


Please Read The Above Post... I replied to all who can not read between lines. Also My mother taught me a saying when I was younger too... "If Somebody has a go at you about something... Its probably whats wrong with them, not you. Their not mature enough to realise this so they attack others because they can not fix themselves." And I mean this with respect :lol:


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## aerie (Jul 19, 2010)

Phoenix82 said:


> Ask me what you dont see clear here and not make out that Im some air head that has no experiance...


I would just like to make it clear to you that I do not think that you are an "air head" or that you do not have any "experiance". Those are your own words. I am sorry that some have confused you with the OP, but I think the real problem is coming from the fact that people are poking holes in what you believe to be a wonderful bond with your horse and it is making you angry. A lot of these comments towards you were not (in my opinion) meant to be negative or rude at first, instead I think people were trying to get a better picture of what was going on. However when you supplied more information and when people saw your other posts with even more information there were some things brought to light... That is when you got more angry and people got frustrated. Please go back and carefully read with an open mind the previous posts especially anything someone has bolded. Only do this when you have a clear calm mind, that way you will be more open to the things said.

Phoenix, the real issue here is that you are being very reactive and hostile in response to people giving you outside and fairly unbiased opinions on what they perceive from what you have written in your posts. There are some wonderfully experienced horse people here who are picking up red flags that some horse owners (regardless of experience) may not pick up on if they are too emotionally attached to the situation. I will be the first to admit that when it came to disciplining my own horse I was a push over for quite a while. He was my first horse (got him when I was 11) and in my eyes he could do no wrong. He picked up some bad habits because I was too blind with love and the "bond" we had to actually do anything about it. It took my trainer stepping in to open my eyes and luckily nobody, including myself and my horse, was hurt. In the end I was doing him no favors by not seeking help even though I thought he was an angel. Turns out I was wrong and what I got out of getting some help was the best partner a girl could ask for, because he truly respected me after we both got our butts kicked! :lol:

I guess what I am trying to say is try to have an open mind about things. When it comes to the horse world there are a million different ways to do one thing and everyone thinks that their way is correct. The only way we are going to learn anything is to have a wide variety of tools in our tool belt and to be open to the idea of getting help even if we think we have things under control. This includes allowing someone else to help with bad behavior even if we are nervous that it will ruin the "bond" we have with our horse. 

In the end though your horse knows who feeds him at the end of the day, and honestly if you take some advise from the people on here I can guarantee that your "bond" will be stronger because you will have more tools to help you along your journey.

Best of luck <3


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

aerie said:


> I would just like to make it clear to you that I do not think that you are an "air head" or that you do not have any "experiance". Those are your own words. I am sorry that some have confused you with the OP, but I think the real problem is coming from the fact that people are poking holes in what you believe to be a wonderful bond with your horse and it is making you angry. A lot of these comments towards you were not (in my opinion) meant to be negative or rude at first, instead I think people were trying to get a better picture of what was going on. However when you supplied more information and when people saw your other posts with even more information there were some things brought to light... That is when you got more angry and people got frustrated. Please go back and carefully read with an open mind the previous posts especially anything someone has bolded. Only do this when you have a clear calm mind, that way you will be more open to the things said.
> 
> Phoenix, the real issue here is that you are being very reactive and hostile in response to people giving you outside and fairly unbiased opinions on what they perceive from what you have written in your posts. There are some wonderfully experienced horse people here who are picking up red flags that some horse owners (regardless of experience) may not pick up on if they are too emotionally attached to the situation. I will be the first to admit that when it came to disciplining my own horse I was a push over for quite a while. He was my first horse (got him when I was 11) and in my eyes he could do no wrong. He picked up some bad habits because I was too blind with love and the "bond" we had to actually do anything about it. It took my trainer stepping in to open my eyes and luckily nobody, including myself and my horse, was hurt. In the end I was doing him no favors by not seeking help even though I thought he was an angel. Turns out I was wrong and what I got out of getting some help was the best partner a girl could ask for, because he truly respected me after we both got our butts kicked! :lol:
> 
> ...


Thank-You so much for replying like a well mannered human. Personaly I have not gotten hostile AT ALL!!! If I appear that way then I am sorry. I have been slammed down in almost every post as some airheaded princess fairy... And that I am not. Im just clarrifying that anything I have said that may sound "hostile" is "self defence" and "self preservation"... I didnt come onto this site to "fight" I came on here to meet some "horse minded" inteligent people, since I have lived half my life in Australia and Half in The US I am VERY OPEN MINDED!!! And probably over educated. But Im still human and I didnt come here to be judged... I came On here to give my advice and take advice from others... Not be slandered and missunderstood. So All I Ask... Is That If One Has A Missunderstanding About Something... Before They JUDGE... Ask And Clarrify... Thank-You


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## aerie (Jul 19, 2010)

It is near impossible to read tone through text, which is why some things on forums like this come off as rude or hostile, even if that was not the main intent. I encourage you to keep posting on this forum and learn even more! I am glad that you feel you have an open mind, maybe if you do choose to continue to post here at Horse Forum when people disagree/seem hostile take a step back and realize at the end of the day you are just arguing with a keyboard lol  and honestly the best thing to do with opposite opinions is to ask more questions about why they disagree with you so you can see things from another person's point of view, and voila! More tools 

I honestly respect that you love your gelding so much, but I really would take the time to re-read older posts you have made and find the knowledge in the responses and ignore what you might believe to be anger/hostility/criticism/hate from others, that isn't what matters it is the knowledge they are trying to give you... free of charge to boot


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'd like to add to aerie's last statement... 

When people post reply it out of nothing but concern. The people on HF have NOTHING to lose when they post. It's not their wallet, they bones, their horses, their insurance. They are nice enough to take the time of day to give you good, sound, advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Phoenix82 said:


> ...I have been slammed down in almost every post as some airheaded princess fairy... And that I am not...I am VERY OPEN MINDED!!! And probably over educated. But Im still human and I didnt come here to be judged... I came On here to give my advice and take advice from others...


1 - Based on your posts, which is all we know, your ARE working horses in a manner that is very dangerous. Based on what you say you do, and how your horse responds, you should not be allowed near a horse.

2 - No one who is over educated writes like you do. You over-estimate your learning, just like your training skills.

3 - You have received a ton of very good, free advice, from people who ARE successful with their horses. So successful that they can cinch a horse without a problem, which isn't a high standard but which is one beyond you.

You can take that advice, or wait and have a horse kick your butt. I'm guessing you will choose Door #2. If that is the only way you will learn, so be it.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

1. The horse striking at you
2. The horse putting his mouth around your arm
3. The horse striking at other people
4. The horse being unable to trust or respect other people without your "permission"
5. The previous girthing issues - threatening to double barrel kick you, etc.

The reason we get this idea about you is because you make up excuses for every one of those behaviors, all of which are 100% unacceptable behaviors for a young horse.

I have raised my 2 year old from birth, any time she exhibits those behaviors, no matter how "innocuous" they may seem, she gets _schooled_. No excuses.

For one, I never want my horse to think it's okay to bite, kick, or strike at me. We are not the same species. I am 100lbs to her 1000lbs. She has to learn to treat me differently than another horse. Respectfully, and gently. 

She also has to treat other people with the same respect, whether I am there or not. She has to treat the farrier and vet with respect, especially in case I am not there or there's an emergency. She has to be able to be caught by stranger if something happened to her and had to be caught immediately for her own safety. And if I died tomorrow, she has to be able to be sold to new people and not hurt them. Because if she can't function without me, nobody is going to buy her. She'll either go to a rough tuff hombre who'll abuse her, or she'll go the slaughterhouse.

Nothing is more important to me than my horse's worth. It's what helps keep them out of a bad situation. So part of that is being a productive member of society. When your horse attacks other people (the impression I got from your post when the other person tried to catch your horse), that's not being a member of society, and it's not benefitting your horse in the long run.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

"The mare seems to love me, she comes to meet me, she loves being groomed. I feed her and she gives hugs constantly and spontaneously. But I can not handle her at all!!!" Unfortunately she has learned how to control you by what you are interpreting as love, affection, bond, etc. You have unconsciously trained her to be like this and look where it's gotten you. Now, try doing the opposite. She isn't to come into your space, no how, now way. You can go in to hers. If she walked into another horse's space of higher ranking in the herd, she'd be either bitten or kicked and driven away. Instant lesson on keeping a respectful distance.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Having a bond, or "The Bond," is not at all important.

Regardless of whether I _like _a horse, and regardless of whether or not a horse _likes_ me, every single one that I ride and will ride deserves the very best I can give them. It is up to me to figure out how to get the best movement, or the best work from whatever horse I'm riding.

No different than any other work. Do the boss and I like each other? What do I think of the co-workers? Doesn't matter. I am responsible for my part of the equation and need to do my best to get the job done well.


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## Rideabighorse (Jan 12, 2014)

I don't know how important the bond is, but a great horseman can establish a very good relationship with a horse very quickly. Horses are very perceptive and it doesn't take them long to know what a person knows and whether they can be trusted as a leader. Horses are all looking for a leader.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

The whole "bond" thing is a human idea and that's it. If you have a horse that trusts, respects and performs.....what more do you want???


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## ILoveMyThoroughbredSmokey (Jan 15, 2014)

first let me say...this thread was very..interesting and made me literally laugh out loud. wish I got on here earlier.

Personally to me, bond is very important. I count my horse as my best friend and that's why i enjoy going to spend time with him and riding him so much. I feel he enjoys it when I spend time with him. but I do know that he favors food and being well taken care of over quality time with me. I know that you don't ride the bond you have with a horse but the training the horse has. Even though, i find bond very important, i would never buy a horse i couldn't handle or that was dangerous because of a bond i felt with it. Also when my horse misbehaves or does something wrong, i make sure i correct it right away so he knows to not do it again. Just because my bond with my horse is important, i know that he must know that I AM BOSS more then anything. Smokey is very well behaved. He respects me, because i made it clear that being disrespectful in unacceptable. One of the first times i was girthing up smokey, while i was tightening his girth, he turned his head to me with his ears back, i immediately smacked his nose. he has never since givin me even a sign of wanting to bite me.just because i felt bonded to him, doesn't mean i let him get away with bad behavior because i was afraid that "he wont like me anymore". Horses are way bigger and stronger then us humans, so being in charge and the horse knowing you are in charge is most important over a bond. Bond comes second. Kicking, biting, charging, etc. are NEVER acceptable. it is not a game.


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## danph (Jul 18, 2012)

when enough people tell you you're doing it wrong, they're not bullying you, they're right. Your horse may need a few personal lessons with a good trainer.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Phoenix82 said:


> Please Read The Above Post... I replied to all who can not read between lines. Also My mother taught me a saying when I was younger too... "If Somebody has a go at you about something... Its probably whats wrong with them, not you. Their not mature enough to realise this so they attack others because they can not fix themselves." And I mean this with respect :lol:


Sorry if you think me being straight-up honest is "attacking you." I used to board at a place with a girl just like you. Magical bond, "it's ok if my horse does [insert dangerous behavior here] because he loves me," the whole deal. I tried to be nice to her and help her out. Got onto her bat-crap crazy, disrespectful, psycho mare...and ended up in the ER with a fractured ankle for my trouble. Then she spread rumors that I beat and abused my horse because I reprimanded him for trying to kick me while I was cleaning out his feet.

As others have said, we only have what you yourself have typed out to judge your horse's behavior, and your handling of it, by. This is an Internet forum. There is no "reading between the lines." What you write is taken at face value to avoid any confusion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phoenix82 (Feb 25, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Sorry if you think me being straight-up honest is "attacking you." I used to board at a place with a girl just like you. Magical bond, "it's ok if my horse does [insert dangerous behavior here] because he loves me," the whole deal. I tried to be nice to her and help her out. Got onto her bat-crap crazy, disrespectful, psycho mare...and ended up in the ER with a fractured ankle for my trouble. Then she spread rumors that I beat and abused my horse because I reprimanded him for trying to kick me while I was cleaning out his feet.
> 
> As others have said, we only have what you yourself have typed out to judge your horse's behavior, and your handling of it, by. This is an Internet forum. There is no "reading between the lines." What you write is taken at face value to avoid any confusion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I Honestly Know That What I Have Written Has Been Taken In Another Way... I See The Anger And Lash From Other People That Is Quite Nasty. Im A Rational Honest Person Myself... But A Few Went Over Board. Maybe Im More In Touch With Reality And Emotion??? Dunno... This Was A Post That I Was Not The Original OP For And I Gave My Honest Answer. I Answered The Original OP With My Opinion... And It All Of A Sudden Became An Attack From Any Angle... On ME! Most Lashings I Would Not Even Dignify With An Answer... As They Have Not UNDERSTOOD What I Have Said... Their Ignorance Is Not My Problem. And I Dont Need To Prove Myself To Anyone.

I Have Seen Some TERRIBLE Accidents Happen More Than Most I Can Tell You... Broken Backs, Necks, Pelvis, Loosing Fingers... All On Horses... And This Makes Me EXTREAMLY CAREFULL, "Knock On Wood" Ive Never Been In Any Accident Myself Apart From The Odd Time Of Having My Foot Stomped On. PM Me If You Want To Know More... Dont Need To Make A Scean Out Of It Do We??? So Unless You Know In Your Heart That You Have A Full Understanding Of Someone And Even Then... There Is A Nicer Way Of Saying Certain Things... Than Trying To Belittle Others So You "Sound Like The Boss" To Make Yourself "Feel Better". Not Saying That This Is Directly In Your Case But It Is In Other Posts From Those Who Will Remain Nameless... Cause I Didnt Come On Here To FightOr Pick People Apart. I Write With Capitals Because Im A Cleanaphobe And I Actually Have OCD (Obsessive Compolsive Dissorder) Or CDO (If You WantTo Put It In Alphabetical Order) But Everyone Seems To Have Something "MEAN" To Say About It... I Let It Roll... Im Me. I Came On Here To Share My Experiances And Talk About Concerns Of My Own. We Dont All Have People We Can Call All The Time, Life Doesnt Work That Way. Thats Why We Have Forums Like This. So How About We Agree To Give This Post Back Over To The Original OP And Stick To The Subject Rather Than Trying To Shed Strippps Off And Discriminate Against Someone We Dont Know. Again I Dont Direct This Directly At You "DraftyAiresMum" But You Were The Most Dignified User To Answer.

And Please, If You Want To Know If Im Real??? PM Me... But I Doubt That Thought Would Have Ever Occured To The Nameless User I Am Reffering To... They Would Rather Have A Public Outburst To Try And Make Me Feel Or Look Less To Them. Also If Your A Registered User You Can See A Few Of The Picks I Have Up Of My Chestnut 2yr Old Paint QH. I Have A Few Nice Shots Of Us Together That I Took On Friday But As A Mum With A 2yr Old Horse, Talking To My Trainers The Last Few Days, 2 Children (One Being A Tot), Working From Home And Running A Large Househould And A Husband That Works Night Shift I Havent Had The Time Between Everything Else... Uploading Pics Is On The Bottom Of The Pile That I Will Reach In The Next Few Days. I Feel Good Today :lol: And Im Doing A **** Good Job. Still Making Time For Me :lol:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_And Please, If You Want To Know If Im Real??? PM Me... But I Doubt That Thought Would Have Ever Occured To The Nameless User I Am Reffering To..._"

No, it did not. Why?

_...BUT HE WONT TAKE A TIGHT GIRTH!!! When I lunge him with a girth on he does the whole I want to roll thing.. He respects the whip (even though he has never gotten it) and now stands butt end in threatening to double barrell, like the full "Pig Root" but wont connect... So It Becomes A Mexican Stand Off (Although I Win Cause He Isnt Rolling And As Long As I don't Raise The Whip He Doesnt Threaten To Kick)_...

Since that is how your horse behaves, a picture of him threatening to kick you into the next county might convince me. A PM would not. I just don't believe ANYONE would consider what you describe - your own words, not mine - a bond of true love...

Of course, DraftyAiresMum wrote, "_I used to board at a place with a girl just like you_", so maybe you are not pulling everyone's leg. If you are real, though, you need to get away from horses entirely until you have a better bond with the real world, because what you described is a person with a good chance of death or serious injury.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Alas, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink. 

Your the one grounded in reality and more in touch with emotion? In the nicest way, it sounds like your in denial. You horse bites, kicks, strikes and is unruly. It's just plain unacceptable. Everyone had given you good advice, and sometimes what you want to hear and what's the best thing are not the same. I don't think you'll understand what we are talking about until something disastrous happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ILoveMyThoroughbredSmokey (Jan 15, 2014)

oh gosh. why do we have to all argue. maybe you guys should just move on and stop talking to and about each other. Everyone has tried to give Pheonix advice of how misbehaved her horse is and how it isn't a bond. she isn't going to change her mind about it, she doesn't want to take good advice, and she doesn't want to see the dangerous spot she putting herself in. their is nothing else anyone can do... so why wont everyone just drop it, and go back to talking about what the OP asked. lets make this horse community less drama filled.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Closed for review, it seems we have gone above a normal disagreement ......


Thread is once again open, but be warned discussions are fine, even ones with very strong opinions, but harassment, dredging up old posts, yelling by capitalizing ever other word, being rude to each other, name calling and accusations of being a troll will not be tolerated. Use the Report Button if you have concerns.

Please remember our Conscientious Etiquette Policy http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-announcements/conscientious-etiquette-policy-6069/

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