# Sickle Hocked Horses



## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

Hi!

Does anyone have any experience with sickle hocked horses?

I've been looking at a mare I may be interested in and someone mentioned she may be sickle hocked. Whether she is or not, I would be interested to learn more. Most of what I found online was just people arguing about what it actually is and less of any personal experience with it affecting horses.

I'd be interested to hear all of your thoughts!


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I am very critical of poorly conformed hocks. I have found that hind limb lameness is seen less frequently than front limb problems but that hind limb problems are more serious and more often career ending. 

The severity of sickle hocks and the intended use of the horse determine if they are a potential problem. 

The old time trainers used to like them because they thought it was easier to get a horse to stop on its hind end if it was a little sickle hocked. In reality, they just did not know how to 'teach' a horse to stop and though it was easier just because the horse already had its hind feet underneath it further. 

It is a fact that many of the best and longest lasting cutting and reining horses are slightly post legged. I am not talking as post legged as the halter horses you see but slightly post legged. Their hocks will be directly under the back of their butt and the hind cannon bone will be perpendicular to the ground but the actual angle of the hock will be pretty straight. They will also have a lot less of a chance of hock problems when they have a good sized hock as opposed to a small, narrow hock.

Sickle hocks do not hold up as well when a horse's intended use involves a lot of hind leg stress. If a horse is going to be used for events like reining, cutting, roping, barrel racing, jumping, eventing, etc, I would not want even a slight sickle hock on that horse. When the intended use is recreational pleasure riding, a horse can get along with less than ideal hocks. 

If you ride a horse hard with sickle hocks, you have a very good chance of him popping curbs, especially if the hocks are smaller than ideal. I have had horses that developed curbs during training; they were all sickle hocked!


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## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

Thank you Cherie!

The pictures I have are at a slightly weird angle and she seems to be standing slightly off square, so I really wanted to know what to keep an eye out for when I actually go see her. What you said helps a lot!

It would just be pleasure riding... maybe a playday or two but not real showing at any level in any sport.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

My big paint gelding was quite sickle hocked. I lent him out for a pony club clinic with a some international conformation person.

We went to watch, and she adored the horse. Honestly, I was prepared to be embarrassed, even though I knew the horse to score an 80 on a 1st level dressage test.

She explained to the group that his sickle hocks made up for his long back....and in his 29 years, he was never lame from it. He jumped, did endurance conditioning, dressage, and driving.

I am not certain that you can tell in this picture, but his hocks were a good bit behind his body. This horse wore an 87" blanket, and did not fit in a normal sized trailer.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

My best friend's QH mare is quite sickle hocked. She also has a long (but not weak) back. She has been used for barrels and trails and has never taken a lame step in her life (despite iffy hoof care). If it ever comes to my best friend not being able to keep her, I'd take her in a heartbeat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I find that a lot of times folks look at a photo and say "sickle hocked" when the horse is not really sickle hocked. the horse just isn't squared up well for the photo, or the amount of angle is normal, or the hrose is a bit cow hocked.

so, perhaps this horse is or is not really sickle hocked. just sayin' don't assume others are right when they say it. some folks jump to conclusions.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

All points covered by Cheri and Tinylinny, esp that stupid assumption that sickle hocks are desired by reiners. 
Greentree, can't see those hocks, but camped out behind is not the same as sickle hocks
Can you post a side view, with the horse squared up correctly?
Sickle hocks, but a lot of strain on those hocks, predisposing to curbs ect


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I thought the current theory was that sickle hocks weren't an actual conformation problem so much as a result of a horse being uncomfortable somewhere else in it's body. Does anybody have any thoughts on that? 

I think it was one of Dr. Deb Bennett's articles that might have given me that idea. But I don't want to say "for sure" because maybe I was just misinterpreting what she was saying.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Not sure I believe that it's not a real conformation fault. My best friend's mare has pretty distinct sickle hocks, no matter how she's stood up or if she's just hanging out in the turnout.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Ultimately, I think we would need to see a picture of the horse in question--and hear what your plans are for it!--before giving advice one way or the other.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I thought the current theory was that sickle hocks weren't an actual conformation problem so much as a result of a horse being uncomfortable somewhere else in it's body. Does anybody have any thoughts on that?
> 
> I think it was one of Dr. Deb Bennett's articles that might have given me that idea. But I don't want to say "for sure" because maybe I was just misinterpreting what she was saying.


An uncomfortable horse may stand under itself but that's not the same sickle hocks. Sickle hocks are easily determined by a plumb line.


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## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm going to see her on Friday so I'll get some good conformation shots so you can take a look! Not planning on anything crazy, just trail riding mostly.

The pictures she sent it's hard to tell if she's really sickle hocked or just standing like that - it seems her leg that is back would be fine with a plumb line but the leg that is more under her looks sickle hocked to me. I'll try and find out more!

Thanks everyone!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

trailhorserider said:


> I thought the current theory was that sickle hocks weren't an actual conformation problem so much as a result of a horse being uncomfortable somewhere else in it's body. Does anybody have any thoughts on that?
> 
> I think it was one of Dr. Deb Bennett's articles that might have given me that idea. But I don't want to say "for sure" because maybe I was just misinterpreting what she was saying.


I think a horse can stand in such a way to look as if it has sickle hocks (among other issues) if it's uncomfortable even if the conformation itself is sound.

That said, I wouldn't say the conformation fault doesn't exist. There are plenty of horses that just have poor conformation.

I haven't actually done it but I think of it periodically with my nice solid mare how quickly she looks like a trainwreck in the wrong "pose" and I should start a conformation thread with an intentionally poor picture then post a good one and see what people think. Horses can also create an issue with long term strain/habit of standing/holding itself improperly.

Most sickle hocked horses have no issue (obviously depending on severity but the average horse is not severe). BUT when you get into anything demanding there would obviously be more strain and plenty of well built horses don't stay sound.

OP as a pleasure horse unless she is severe she should be fine. Can you post pics? I would recommend a vet check as well.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

For me it would be a deal-breaker. Plenty of horses with good conformation, especially if you are paying for it.


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## Partita (Feb 19, 2016)

Basically, a sickle hocked horse just has a really long hind leg. Overangulated if you will. Camped out and sickle hocked are the same thing, depending on how the cannon bones are positioned in relation to the ground.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Partita said:


> Basically, a sickle hocked horse just has a really long hind leg. Overangulated if you will.* Camped out and sickle hocked are the same thing, depending on how the cannon bones are positioned in relation to the ground.*





Really? because most of the sickle hocked horses I see are not in a camped out position. but, maybe, that's due to how they are stood up to be photographed.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

They have long hind leg bones, either the canon bones or the bone directly above the hock. They cannot stand in a way that lets them align their hip, their hock and their fetlock at the same time. If they stand camped under, their hip lines up with their hock but their pastern is several inches forward of that line. If they stand camped out behind, their hind canon is perpendicular to the ground only when it is setting several inches behind the horse's hip. It is impossible for the horse to line up all three points.

A true 'post legged horse (like seen in many of the halter horses) is just the opposite. When their canon is perpendicular to the ground, it is several inches in front of the horse's hip. The hock joint is far too straight.

The worst sickle hocked horses that pop curbs or develop bogs or bone spavins are horses that are not only sickle hocked but also have small hocks with 'tied in' tendons. They often go together.

Let me see if I can attach a photo of a horse that is camped out behind and underneath with the same conformation problem.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Well, heck, I can't get them to attach.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> Really? because most of the sickle hocked horses I see are not in a camped out position. but, maybe, that's due to how they are stood up to be photographed.


Yes and no, I see Partita is trying to say.

If you took a sickle hocked horse and stretched him forward until the cannon was vertical he would be camped out.

If you took a horse built camped out and pushed him back until the leg was under him he would be sickle hocked.

I don't think it's the same, after all they have two different names for a reason, but it depends on how the horse naturally stands (or is posed) and are the same concept.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

JulieG said:


> I'm going to see her on Friday so I'll get some good conformation shots so you can take a look! Not planning on anything crazy, just trail riding mostly.
> 
> The pictures she sent it's hard to tell if she's really sickle hocked or just standing like that - it seems her leg that is back would be fine with a plumb line but the leg that is more under her looks sickle hocked to me. I'll try and find out more!
> 
> Thanks everyone!


Let us know!

You can attach that pic if it's ok with her owner. It's fun to guess on "iffy" pics.

It's great you're looking in to this but as I said it is very unlikely to matter for what you want.

A lot of it comes down to stance.

In fact I'd say I've never seen a horse that was truly sickle hocked to the extent it would be a problem for the average owner. If I have I feel I'd remember! When I google it I feel a lot of the images are posture instead of conformation.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

'Sickle hocked' is, IMO usually to 'upstairs' issues, such as a tilted pelvis or such. This _may_ potentially be fixable by good chiro &/or cranio sacral work. See it very commonly in OTTB's


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## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

Thank you everyone! Good news - she's not actually sickle hocked, it was just the photos. Better news - she absolutely AMAZING and she's now officially mine! I'll start a thread at some point but here she is if anyone is interested:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Good oh! Pretty girl! Yeah, hind end doesn't look bad. I'd just be wanting to deal with those front feet ASAP, which is probably why she's standing under herself in front like that too.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

She's beautiful! Congrats!


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