# Spotted Saddle Horse



## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Anyone? I'm likely seeing her tomorrow, so it would be nice to hear some opinions before then.


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

She has a nice upright, well set neck, legs look to have good bone. The first pic her shoulder appears to be a bit straight, but angle looks better in 2nd pic. What do you plan to use her for?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks. Just arena work and trails. Nothing too fancy or demanding.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I like her. I'm certainly not a guru. She looks balanced , not like two horses were put together to make one horse. 

She may have mutton withers, and she looks light boned and behind the knee. In the second picture the left back leg with the white stocking looks as if there is swelling along the cannon bone. Could be the picture, a shadow. Just eye it tomorrow.

She looks mischievous.....lolol....


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> I like her. I'm certainly not a guru. She looks balanced , not like two horses were put together to make one horse.
> 
> She may have mutton withers, and she looks light boned and behind the knee. In the second picture the left back leg with the white stocking looks as if there is swelling along the cannon bone. Could be the picture, a shadow. Just eye it tomorrow.
> 
> She looks mischievous.....lolol....


I'm told she's well mannered, but playful


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

elle1959 said:


> I'm told she's well mannered, but playful


She has that look!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Uh that halter scares me.

Other than that, go check her out before someone else does!!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

I dont see any reason why she wouldnt work out for what your wanting her for. A friend of mine had 2 SSH, full brothers, and they were outstanding trail horses!! They looked a lot like your mare, confimationaly, and color/marking wise as well  Good Luck, let us know how everything goes tomorrow


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

She looks alert, almost too much so. A little back at the knee, but gee, she is pretty!!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Just have to add I love the white tail on black body on her off side, I do a double take every time I look XD


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

I have first refusal on her  Will see her tomorrow and can put a deposit pending PPE if she is truly what I want. 

What does it mean that she's "back at the knee?"


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

On the ideal vertical line of the leg the knee is behind it, the opposite "over at the knee" would mean a horse that almost looks like is has the leg bent a little when it's straight.

It should not be a problem for what you want unless severe which it does not seem to be. Not uncommon.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> On the ideal vertical line of the leg the knee is behind it, the opposite "over at the knee" would mean a horse that almost looks like is has the leg bent a little when it's straight.
> 
> It should not be a problem for what you want unless severe which it does not seem to be. Not uncommon.


Thank you!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Discussion of knee faults:
The Equinist: Articles and Commentary by Susan Kauffmann: CONFORMATION FAULT: Three Common Knee Problems

She's a beautiful horse, that's for sure. Flashy, balanced, carries herself well.

I would be looking at the straightness of her shoulder -- ideal is about 45 degrees and she looks steeper than that in the photo. Straight shoulders mainly a problem in that they make for a jouncy trot and a stiff canter, and a lack of extension. So they limit the riding qualities of the horse. Might be a soundness issue at some level, but I've known straight-shouldered horses that can jounce you all day, sound as a nut. With a gaited horse I don't know -- I'm a sea of ignorance when it comes to gaited horses. If you like her gaits then it's of little concern.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks. Supposedly her fast gait is a single-footed rack, so I'm not sure how that will be. I'll be very interested in riding her tomorrow. I did ask the seller, when she mentioned that her withers were lower than normal (which I had already noticed in the pictures) how that affected her gaits and told her that I'd ridden a TWH recently who had a club foot and whose gait was just bone-jarring. The seller said this one is very smooth. So, we'll see. If she's anywhere near as smooth as the MFT I looked at, and is calm and minus his spookiness, I'll be very tempted to put the deposit on her.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Wow, she's stunning, I really like her. If she has good manners, and isn't flighty, I'd very seriously consider her. I hope she works out for you, she really is gorgeous, and I really don't see any glaring faults.

Most of my horses had very low withers, it never gave us any troubles.


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

I really like her. And while I am by no way a conformation expert, there isn't anything that screams "no!" to me.

Keep us posted!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks, everyone. I'm glad she looks pretty solid to everyone. I can see the faults, but agree they do not seem to be too bad. The PPE should turn up any problems with that left hind leg. 

On paper, she is everything I have spent months looking for. She's two hours from me, which I ordinarily would not do, but for this horse, I'm making the drive. Her description says that she's got no buck or rear, not spooky, likes people, but a little "looky" when encountering something new, just needs encouragement to move through the experience the first time. Sounds like a horse, to me. She's done some trails, some obstacles, but she's fairly young at 8 so there's still room for us to grow together as a team. 

I would be using her in the arena, to sharpen my riding skills, and then on trails when I feel she and I are both ready for that. 

I wasn't looking for flashy, that's last on my list, but she truly IS gorgeous, and that's just icing on the cake (and will make her an easier sell if something doesn't work out).

I would ordinarily bring my riding instructor with me to see her, but she isn't available today, and I trust this seller. She has four people lined up to look at her, and I am the first. I believe her, because I can see the interest on her "for sale" post. As someone posted there, "She won't last long." I hope that she doesn't last another day because she'll be mine by tonight  We'll see.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes for you, elle!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

When I bought my first horse, he was 10mo old, I didnt get to see him walk, it was raining outside, I literally just spent 30min in the stall with him, but I had built up a relationship with the owner, knew a good bit about her, told her a good bit about me, and what I was looking for in a horse. I trusted my guy instinct, and although many people thought it was ludacris, it was one of the best decisions Ive ever made, and would not trade my boy for the world! Im super curious to see how things went today  Hope all went well!!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Totally buying her! 

It was an interesting day, to say the least. I won't repeat all the details here but you can read the last entry in my journal if you want the whole story. Link is in my sig.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

csimkunas6 said:


> When I bought my first horse, he was 10mo old, I didnt get to see him walk, it was raining outside, I literally just spent 30min in the stall with him, but I had built up a relationship with the owner, knew a good bit about her, told her a good bit about me, and what I was looking for in a horse. I trusted my guy instinct, and although many people thought it was ludacris, it was one of the best decisions Ive ever made, and would not trade my boy for the world! Im super curious to see how things went today  Hope all went well!!


This one is definitely a leap of faith for me, but I have a feeling it's faith well-placed. We'll see.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Mine picked me.

I really didn't want a barely handled four year old Arab. Went to look at a different horse. So glad he picked me and I took that leap too!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Good luck!

If you like riding her (which you do !) there's nothing conformation wise that matters beyond that. The exact angle of her shoulder doesn't matter.

There is nothing "wrong" with her conformation, no faults. No horse is perfect and sure we could pull her apart with better photo's but conformation wise she is sound and solid. For what you want that's all that matters and you can move on to more important things for you, do you like her, is she fun etc..

Glad you had a good day!


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Congratulations, so happy for you! She's gorgeous!


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

I like her she is pretty! Best of luck with her!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thanks, everyone. I had a lot more confidence in what I was seeing yesterday, due to your help. It's important and I appreciate it more than you know.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Compare her conformation to my mare, "Warren's Cindy", (in My Horses.)
She rides likes a Cadillac and you can't feel the transitions between her gaits, even though she is not very fit.
Fit can even out gaits, too.
Congratulations!


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Corporal said:


> Compare her conformation to my mare, "Warren's Cindy", (in My Horses.)
> She rides likes a Cadillac and you can't feel the transitions between her gaits, even though she is not very fit.
> Fit can even out gaits, too.
> Congratulations!


I don't see that horse in your list. That's what this horse was like. Just like shifting gears in a Ferrari with a Caddy suspension.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Moon Eyes the horse


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Oh, wow, she's beautiful. Similar, to my eye. A little higher at the withers. 

I'm going saddle hunting today. There's a used tack store nearby and I hope they have a few gaited saddles that will fit me. I'm small so it's hard to find much in a 15" size, but I'll give it a try. She also needs a bridle, bit, halter and lead rope. What fun


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks! She KNOWS how pretty she is. ;D
Of the 35 horses that I have owned over the years, she is among the handful that were practically perfect.
I have only one problem and that is with saddle fit. With my mare the saddle likes to slide forward. Most people don't know what to do. We have been riding McClellan saddles for 29 years and they are often rigged with a crupper. 
_If_ your mare has this problem, this is the only fix for this, and you might as well add a breastplate to the pommel, too.
I went searching online tack stores, but all that they carry is for driving and they only have a single attachment. Really, the best buy is a CW Sutlery, like this one:
Cavalry Crupper
First, ride, but if you need it, you REALLY need one.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Corporal said:


> Thanks! She KNOWS how pretty she is. ;D
> Of the 35 horses that I have owned over the years, she is among the handful that were practically perfect.
> I have only one problem and that is with saddle fit. With my mare the saddle likes to slide forward. Most people don't know what to do. We have been riding McClellan saddles for 29 years and they are often rigged with a crupper.
> _If_ your mare has this problem, this is the only fix for this, and you might as well add a breastplate to the pommel, too.
> ...


Thanks! This is quite likely to be an issue, since her withers are low. They aren't non-existant, but they are certainly lower than most gaited horses so I'm expecting problems there.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm really not seeing an issue with her withers. No they aren't "shark fin" but that's often a good thing! They are perfectly normal. I don't think it will be a problem unless you're riding on hilly terrain.

Keep in mind you don't need a "gaited saddle" for a gaited horse, a saddle is a saddle it either fits or doesn't.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> I'm really not seeing an issue with her withers. No they aren't "shark fin" but that's often a good thing! They are perfectly normal. I don't think it will be a problem unless you're riding on hilly terrain.
> 
> Keep in mind you don't need a "gaited saddle" for a gaited horse, a saddle is a saddle it either fits or doesn't.



Thanks. I have heard many conflicting opinions about this, so it should be interesting to see what we end up with.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah, if a gaited saddle fits her go for it lol, just saying it's not your only option.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

I don't know anything about gaited horses, but is the low wither issue worse for gaiting or am I misunderstanding? I say this because I think her withers look fine - she certainly has more withers than my hispanoarab - so unless it's specifically a problem for gaiting I don't think it's an issue really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I have owned many horses with low withers, but my gaited mare is the only horse where the saddle has ever slipped forward.
Gaited horses build is kinda...odd.
Many times a TWH will cross their hocks while standing. Many farriers call them "rubber legged."
The conformation for a well built gaited horse doesn't seem to work, but it DOES.
It is not that my mare is built downhill. She has a level, strong back and her low withers are still higher than her back.
It is, I think, the motion of the gaiting which originates in the HQ's, that pushes the saddle forward. Mountain Horses have a lot of drive, and ALL of the gaited and 1/2 gaited horses I have owned have preferred their running walk or amble to the walk or canter when you ride/rode them. (Most have passed on, now.)
I first noticed it when my DD's were riding her Western. With the McClellan rigged with both a breastplate and a crupper, the saddle stays in place with her.
*Be aware that you must train your horse to the crupper ON THE GROUND before riding with it. *Just like ANYTHING ELSE, your horse will need to accept this piece of tack. I trained 15 horses to both the tack and to gunfire over the years. You should lunge without tack and first run the lunge line under the tail, then get your horse to spiral away until he/she isn't nervous about this. Then, I suggest approach and retreat training session, with a bag of carrots, without attaching. A few sessions like this, plus a lunging session with the crupper attached, and your horse should accept it.
TAKE YOUR TIME, and let the horse show you that it's no big deal. I introduced the crupper and breastplate to "Buster Brown" right after I got him, as a 3yo, and it didn't take long before he ignored it. That doesn't mean that you horse might clamp his tail a little when you put it on. "Corporal" did that his entire life, even though he was broken to it and it was never an irritant. (Hard grooming brushes always irritated him, so I used softer brushes on him.)
You should adjust it slightly loose, instead of snug. There is a very wide adjustment on the CW cruppers, and, if I used one on several different horses, different breeds, I had to readjust it individually.
The other aspect to using a crupper and breastplate, is that they secure the saddle from ever slipping over and under the horse, as could happen if not tightened, when you mount.


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## Fantelle (Oct 26, 2015)

Not a conformation expert .. but I know that's a pretty horse. Do keep us updated on how she was when you go see her C:


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Well, she has a moderate case of thrush on all four feet, but other than that she's just fine. I'll take it. Had to spring for the x-rays because her feet were tender from the thrush and we needed to rule out navicular. Would have done them anyway on an older horse, but hadn't been planning to do them on an 8 year old. She just got a bit more expensive, but come Friday, she's all mine.


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## Werecat (Aug 23, 2015)

SO EXCITING!! Congratulations!!!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

she is cute. Congrats. Did she come from the place with the b/w twh gelding ! 
I have been seeing those ads ! pretty horses.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

stevenson said:


> she is cute. Congrats. Did she come from the place with the b/w twh gelding !
> I have been seeing those ads ! pretty horses.


Not sure. She just put a gelding up that's almost all black, one white foot. If you mean that one, then yes. Not sure if that one is a TWH. She has a few horses for sale.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I think she is quite nicely put together, other than being slightly down hill.
That second picture had me wondering, until I saw that she is standing with her front feet on a cement pad! Thus, does not look down hill, as in the first pic!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I also agree that she has decent withers, but is just built somewhat down hill, with withers being thus lower than hip


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Someone commented on your other thread that Diva appears a bit pacey.

Get the thrush healed in all four hooves before you seriously try to fix a pacey issue that may not exist.

She looks fine at a flat walk in the video. I looked at it a second time and I think I see too much quick stepping/slight short striding in the front. I would chalk it up to sore frogs, even if she is wearing shoes.

Gaited horses are like the Princess and the Pea story when it comes to tenderness in the hooves, frogs, legs, back. They will go willingly and try hard to please but their gait will be off.

that is why I am so preachy about having a gaited horse thoroughly checked for physical pain when someone complains their gaited horse is choppy, pacey, or just won't gait.

What little I saw of your trainer, I like her for a gaited horse - I rarely say that but she sits Diva like she is supposed to which is important and she is generous with body pats when Diva does something correctly. You should keep this trainer, unless she changes:loveshower:

IMO you stumbled on a great horse. Just be diligent in feeding her. Absolutely no grain-type feeds. Probably no alfalfa either, unless it is a tiny bit mixed in with grass hay. I know grass hay is tough to find in California but make your best effort. 

Diva looks like a really easy keeper. believe me, dealing with any level of insulin resistance is something you don't want to do. It is akin to Type II Diabetes in humans and is a lifetime of monitoring and treatment.

Best of luck and many Happy Trails to the both of you:cowboy:


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Thank you, Walk! This means a lot to me, coming from you. 

I think my trainer was relieved that I ended up with such a nice horse, especially given my budget. I am certainly relieved, but I did my homework and worked hard to hone in on what I really wanted. I learned a lot here from people like you. 

I agree about the pace. She doesn't look pacey to me, though I do see in a few of her strides. if you listen closely to the video you will hear the telltale "paca-paca paca-paca" of a single-footed gait. She is undoubtedly somewhat sore and she has just had her front shoes pulled. I think her gaits will improve with work to get her into shape, and with therapy to clear up the thrush. 

My trainer is wonderful with horses. I've been having issues with her as a riding instructor, but now that I have a horse that I'm not constantly worried about falling from, I think we might be able to work together. The times I've done well at her place, I have been riding gaited horses. Her other lesson horses are just too rough for me, I guess, and it's been too distracting to have a good lesson. Diva, on the other hand, actually does exactly what I ask her to do, with very light cues. She's like a little Ferarri with a Caddy suspension, and that is EXACTLY what I was hoping to find in a horse. Great responsiveness but not forward.


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## elle1959 (Sep 7, 2015)

Smilie said:


> I also agree that she has decent withers, but is just built somewhat down hill, with withers being thus lower than hip


Thank you! 

She *is* a little downhill; I can see it well in the pictures I took yesterday. She's also quite wide, which makes her interesting to fit a saddle to. I've got one on order for her and, hopefully, it will fit well, but if it does not, we'll try again. I have two weeks to return it.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

She's beautiful! Congrats!


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