# Trainer using horse for lessons...



## djhmanderson

Okay, it's a delicate situation as I am friends with said trainer. I was gifted my horse on February of this year. He has been at this barn with previous owners for over 3 years. The previous owners had been "off-site" owners, not participating in any lessons, etc. Therefore, Trainer had become very used to having horse at her disposal at all times. Horse is a 19 year old sweetheart who is great with young kids (although he is a smart-as-a-whip spitfire!) The gifting of the horse was negotiated through Trainer, as I did not know previous owners. That, in itself, was a disastrous situation as previous owners worded contract to where I was paying for the horse but Trainer had full say in horse's everything. That was changed, as I would not sign. 
So when I took Horse, Trainer was very happy that she would still be able to use him (didn't ask me, assumed.) I asked her if there would be any compensation for that, she said no. She uses him alot. I don't mind that she uses him, as I think it's good for him to be out and about. EXCEPT in this situation that occured this weekend. Friday night, my former leaser asked me if she could ride Horse at specific time. I said yes, no problem. She would pay me for it. When I get to barn next day, I asked her why she didn't ride. Apparently she called Trainer and Trainer told her she couldn't use him because she had lessons scheduled on him. Please, I really need some good advice on this. I don't want this to become a bad situation, but that really mad me, ummm....angry to say the least.:evil:


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## gigem88

Is there anything in writing stating the trainer has unlimited usage of your horse? If not, tell her to stop or get a written agreement to the specific times you will allow the horse to be used for lessons. And, I would get compensation as $$ or lessons for you.


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## djhmanderson

gigem88 said:


> Is there anything in writing stating the trainer has unlimited usage of your horse? If not, tell her to stop or get a written agreement to the specific times you will allow the horse to be used for lessons. And, I would get compensation as $$ or lessons for you.


No, we have no contract in writing concerning her using Horse for lessons. The only contract I have with her is for the full-board. I am so new to the horse world that I don't know what is standard or not. Is it customary to pay someone $$ or lessons for use of your horse? I know if I were to ask that she just wouldn't use him. If it is a practice then how much is fair compensation? Thanks for your help.


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## Speed Racer

Are you willing to move barns? Because I see this happening if you curtail trainer's use of what has essentially been a free lesson horse for the last 3 years.

I agree that he's your horse and you should have the say in who does or doesn't ride him. Don't be surprised if the trainer isn't happy with that pronouncement, and asks you to leave the barn.

If you still think he should be used in the lesson program, draw up a contract stating when, how often, and whether or not you'll be compensated monetarily or by a reduction in board.


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## kevinshorses

If you're going to allow the instructor to use the horse for lessons then you have to let the horse be available for those lessons. The instructor has paying customers too and can't be cancelling a lesson because you want to let someone ride your horse. If you want the horse to be available more then tell the instructor that the horse can only be used for lessons on certain days or between certain hours. Or you can tell the instructor that she can't use the horse anymore and be prepared to lose the friendship of that person.


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## djhmanderson

kevinshorses said:


> If you're going to allow the instructor to use the horse for lessons then you have to let the horse be available for those lessons. The instructor has paying customers too and can't be cancelling a lesson because you want to let someone ride your horse. If you want the horse to be available more then tell the instructor that the horse can only be used for lessons on certain days or between certain hours. Or you can tell the instructor that she can't use the horse anymore and be prepared to lose the friendship of that person.


 
Thank you for your opinion- I agree with you. To a certain extent. Must keep in mind that Trainer has numerous other horses that are her own that she could use for a lesson should my horse not be available.


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## djhmanderson

Speed Racer said:


> Are you willing to move barns? Because I see this happening if you curtail trainer's use of what has essentially been a free lesson horse for the last 3 years.
> 
> I agree that he's your horse and you should have the say in who does or doesn't ride him. Don't be surprised if the trainer isn't happy with that pronouncement, and asks you to leave the barn.
> 
> If you still think he should be used in the lesson program, draw up a contract stating when, how often, and whether or not you'll be compensated monetarily or by a reduction in board.


No, I don't really want to move barns as this one is so very convenient. And she's a great trainer for myself and my daughter. I just don't know how to handle this situation. I guess I will just have to ask her for her schedule to see when/how often she is using him. And go from there. But she cost me $ the other day by refusing to let him be used.


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## Corporal

I'm sorry but I believe that you need to figure out what you want. If I was the instructor I think I'd be confused.
A 19yo babysitter (horse) doesn't need a trainer. The trainer is your teacher and you can yank your horse out of the trainer's lesson program anytime your wish bc the horse is now in private hands. However, it doesn't sound like you think the instructor will still give you lessons if that happens. Are you not paying $ for lessons? If sounds as if the lesson payment is partly the use of your horse in other lessons. It ALSO sounds like you are arguing with sound advice above, which you asked for by posting this thread.


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## crimsonsky

imo, bottom line is this. the horse belongs to you = you have final say in how he is used and by whom. if YOU want the horse to be used in lessons, have it agreed to in writing and specify exactly how that's going to go (how many days/hours/rides/whathaveyou, what he can and cannot do, who is responsible for tack/safety/etc.). if it's in writing you shouldn't have any further issues... if the trainer won't agree to that, the easiest way to not have problems is to say "i'm sorry but without something agreed to in black and white, i do not feel comfortable with the legalities of anyone else using my horse".


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## themacpack

Typically, board is reduced in return for the use of horse as a lesson horse - are you paying the full asking price of full-care board? If not, that is your compensation for the use of the horse -- if so, you need simply request that your horse not be used for lessons or that you be given fair consideration (the lower board fees) to compensate for the use of the horse.


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## djhmanderson

Corporal said:


> I'm sorry but I believe that you need to figure out what you want. If I was the instructor I think I'd be confused.
> A 19yo babysitter (horse) doesn't need a trainer. The trainer is your teacher and you can yank your horse out of the trainer's lesson program anytime your wish bc the horse is now in private hands. However, it doesn't sound like you think the instructor will still give you lessons if that happens. Are you not paying $ for lessons? If sounds as if the lesson payment is partly the use of your horse in other lessons. It ALSO sounds like you are arguing with sound advice above, which you asked for by posting this thread.


I'm sorry, but I don't understand your post at all. I am not arguing with anybody, first of all. I am throwing out other factors in the situation. If you read my post, it says, yes, I agree. The Trainer is not a trainer for the horse. She is mine and my daughter's riding instructer. She rents space at a barn and has a certain number of stalls there. She boards horses (sub-leases, really) and teaches people to ride. Yes, I pay her for lessons for myself and my daughter. Yes, I pay her full-board. I pay her the same price as everybody else does for lessons. Yes, I can tell her to quit using the horse for lessons. I know that is my right. I was just asking if anybody had a solution that would not cause too big of a problem as I like her as an instructer. Perhaps I used the wrong word, Trainer. As stated, I am VERY new to the horse world. Forgive my incorrectness and I will forgive your demeaning post.


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## djhmanderson

crimsonsky said:


> imo, bottom line is this. the horse belongs to you = you have final say in how he is used and by whom. if YOU want the horse to be used in lessons, have it agreed to in writing and specify exactly how that's going to go (how many days/hours/rides/whathaveyou, what he can and cannot do, who is responsible for tack/safety/etc.). if it's in writing you shouldn't have any further issues... if the trainer won't agree to that, the easiest way to not have problems is to say "i'm sorry but without something agreed to in black and white, i do not feel comfortable with the legalities of anyone else using my horse".


Thank you for your feedback. I believe, after reading a few posts, that this is exactly what I need to do. She's a little hot-headed, so it probably will go over like a lead rock, but I have to protect my interests, as well.


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## themacpack

Just tell her to stop using your horse - I am just not understanding why this is so complicated.


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## djhmanderson

themacpack said:


> Typically, board is reduced in return for the use of horse as a lesson horse - are you paying the full asking price of full-care board? If not, that is your compensation for the use of the horse -- if so, you need simply request that your horse not be used for lessons or that you be given fair consideration (the lower board fees) to compensate for the use of the horse.


Thank you- I had heard of this as well, but couldn't find it in writing anywhere, which is why I started this post to begin with. First barn, first horse, i'm sure not the last headache, lol. I am paying full price for full board, same as everybody else.


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## djhmanderson

themacpack said:


> Just tell her to stop using your horse - I am just not understanding why this is so complicated.


Thanks for the warm welcome and understanding.


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## gigem88

Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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## calicokatt

Just wanted to say that I can be a hot headed person as well. If you came to me and said that I could only use the horse on certain days and you wanted it in writing, I might be angry (who wants to lose a free lesson horse?), but I would also know you were right. I would give her the contract you have worked out, explain your position, say you don't have time to talk right now, but you'll be back tomorrow to go over details and make any changes that might be necessary, and evacuate, immediately. That approach will give her time to get ticked off without ruining your relationship, and hopefully she'll be able to approach the situation rationally... Of course, you might look like a bit of a chicken, but better a chicken who doesn't have to change barns, and who is still friends with her trainer than the alternative...
Kathy


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## djhmanderson

calicokatt said:


> Just wanted to say that I can be a hot headed person as well. If you came to me and said that I could only use the horse on certain days and you wanted it in writing, I might be angry (who wants to lose a free lesson horse?), but I would also know you were right. I would give her the contract you have worked out, explain your position, say you don't have time to talk right now, but you'll be back tomorrow to go over details and make any changes that might be necessary, and evacuate, immediately. That approach will give her time to get ticked off without ruining your relationship, and hopefully she'll be able to approach the situation rationally... Of course, you might look like a bit of a chicken, but better a chicken who doesn't have to change barns, and who is still friends with her trainer than the alternative...
> Kathy


Thanks, Kathy, that made me feel better. I just don't want a mess. I am good about doing things by email, lol.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

If you want your horse used some in lessons (good exercise for him) then write up an agreement that shows what you are willing to do. For instance, "Trainer XXXX may use Old Blue on MWF for the 10 AM & 2 PM lessons. He is not available on TTh nor Sat, Sun. In exchange for his use as a lesson horse, board and lessons shall be reduced to, $XXXX. Effective, immediately and subject to revocation without notice, by the owner, XXXXXXXXXX.". 

If she doesn't accept that, then I would remove him from the lesson program entirely and start looking for a new barn and new instructor, simply because a/ I wouldn't trust her to honor the no use policy if I wasn't looking and b/ I think it's going to get uncomfortable there if you pull him. 

Good luck, I think she took advantage of your inexperience. Good trainer or no, you've just learned your first lesson in sharp dealings by horse folks. Sorry.

***ETA**** I just read where you like doing things by e-mail. That would be an excellent idea in this case, if you can. Just send her the e-mail and see how she jumps, that way you don't have to deal with a blow up face to face. I would NOT allow any revision to the schedule you lay out, it sounds like you need to take back control of your horse.


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## djhmanderson

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> If you want your horse used some in lessons (good exercise for him) then write up an agreement that shows what you are willing to do. For instance, "Trainer XXXX may use Old Blue on MWF for the 10 AM & 2 PM lessons. He is not available on TTh nor Sat, Sun. In exchange for his use as a lesson horse, board and lessons shall be reduced to, $XXXX. Effective, immediately and subject to revocation without notice, by the owner, XXXXXXXXXX.".
> 
> If she doesn't accept that, then I would remove him from the lesson program entirely and start looking for a new barn and new instructor, simply because a/ I wouldn't trust her to honor the no use policy if I wasn't looking and b/ I think it's going to get uncomfortable there if you pull him.
> 
> Good luck, I think she took advantage of your inexperience. Good trainer or no, you've just learned your first lesson in sharp dealings by horse folks. Sorry.
> 
> ***ETA**** I just read where you like doing things by e-mail. That would be an excellent idea in this case, if you can. Just send her the e-mail and see how she jumps, that way you don't have to deal with a blow up face to face. I would NOT allow any revision to the schedule you lay out, it sounds like you need to take back control of your horse.


Thank you for your opinion, it's really appreciated. I believe I am going to ask to see her schedule of when she plans on using my baby boy and then draw up a contract based on that. I feel bad having to do it, but I think you're right- that she is taking advantage of me and I don't like that feeling.


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## Joe4d

I just dont get why this is an Issue, have some backbone, sorry I am not trying to be mean, but good night irene, It is your horse, stop being a doormat,


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## mls

djhmanderson said:


> No, we have no contract in writing concerning her using Horse for lessons. The only contract I have with her is for the full-board. I am so new to the horse world that I don't know what is standard or not. Is it customary to pay someone $$ or lessons for use of your horse? I know if I were to ask that she just wouldn't use him. If it is a practice then how much is fair compensation? Thanks for your help.


There is no customary practice in the horse world. Everything is a case by case basis.

I use boarders horses as lesson horses. They are not compensated by a board reduction or paid. They don't have to pay ME to groom or work the horse.


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## SugarNSpice

Everyone who has posted has said about the same thing and I agree with them. You should definitely have control over when and if your horse is used and should receive compensation for it (I would say in the form of lower board). She really has absolutely no right to get angry about it, losing a free lesson horse or not. She lost that right the day that owners changed for the horse. It's her responsibility as a business owner to make arrangements to cover the loss of a lesson horse by either getting another horse, using another horse already there, or working out a detailed and mutually beneficial arrangement with you. It's extremely unprofessional the way SHE has gone about things. I'm thinking this sort of attitude is common with a lot of instructors, as mine has much the same view on things. I've had many issues at my barn with her using my horses without my permission for lessons, camps, and trail rides (I either come out to the barn at a time she's not expecting me and catch her or another boarder happens to mention something like "Oh, I saw Ruby out on a trail today", not realizing that wasn't supposed to be.). It's also commonly known in the barn that if she does use your horse, you're supposed to have money taken off board, but never once have I ever gotten that benefit. It's another sticky situation here, because this is the only barn and only instructor I've ever had (been here 11 years now) and she's somewhat a friend of the family. She constantly uses any horse in the barn she wants for lessons freely, even though she has over 10 horses of her own. Very frustrating, but it's hard at times to prove she's doing it and also I'm not really in a great financial situation at the moment so I don't want to say anything to her AGAIN and cause a rift when I can't really afford to switch barns right now. As soon as my situation improves though I'm giving her a detailed list of all things allowed and not allowed, along with some complaints, and if it causes me to have to switch barns then so be it. It's worth it to get rid of all of the stress. Constantly building up little resentments is good for no one, including the horses.


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## djhmanderson

SugarNSpice said:


> Everyone who has posted has said about the same thing and I agree with them. You should definitely have control over when and if your horse is used and should receive compensation for it (I would say in the form of lower board). She really has absolutely no right to get angry about it, losing a free lesson horse or not. She lost that right the day that owners changed for the horse. It's her responsibility as a business owner to make arrangements to cover the loss of a lesson horse by either getting another horse, using another horse already there, or working out a detailed and mutually beneficial arrangement with you. It's extremely unprofessional the way SHE has gone about things. I'm thinking this sort of attitude is common with a lot of instructors, as mine has much the same view on things. I've had many issues at my barn with her using my horses without my permission for lessons, camps, and trail rides (I either come out to the barn at a time she's not expecting me and catch her or another boarder happens to mention something like "Oh, I saw Ruby out on a trail today", not realizing that wasn't supposed to be.). It's also commonly known in the barn that if she does use your horse, you're supposed to have money taken off board, but never once have I ever gotten that benefit. It's another sticky situation here, because this is the only barn and only instructor I've ever had (been here 11 years now) and she's somewhat a friend of the family. She constantly uses any horse in the barn she wants for lessons freely, even though she has over 10 horses of her own. Very frustrating, but it's hard at times to prove she's doing it and also I'm not really in a great financial situation at the moment so I don't want to say anything to her AGAIN and cause a rift when I can't really afford to switch barns right now. As soon as my situation improves though I'm giving her a detailed list of all things allowed and not allowed, along with some complaints, and if it causes me to have to switch barns then so be it. It's worth it to get rid of all of the stress. Constantly building up little resentments is good for no one, including the horses.


It's a sucky situation to be in. Don't want to step on toes but don't want yours stepped on either. I get it. Thanks for sharing!!


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## djhmanderson

mls said:


> There is no customary practice in the horse world. Everything is a case by case basis.
> 
> I use boarders horses as lesson horses. They are not compensated by a board reduction or paid. They don't have to pay ME to groom or work the horse.


Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your input.


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## OuttatheBlue

(I didn't read the replies)

I was in a situation almost exactly as yours. It was terrible and no one was happy. The only thing I was able to do was move to another barn. Everything gets MUCH better when you no longer have a leech on your horse. Moving was the worst part, as my barn owner was VERY angry she was loosing a lesson horse.


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## churumbeque

djhmanderson said:


> Thank you for your opinion, it's really appreciated. I believe I am going to ask to see her schedule of when she plans on using my baby boy and then draw up a contract based on that. I feel bad having to do it, but I think you're right- that she is taking advantage of me and I don't like that feeling.


 Good thing you stuck to your guns and not signed the 1st contract. Sounds like you will figure this out also.

If your are a regular rider then I would just use the horse for myself and not let it be used for lessons. If you are not out enough and the horse needs more work then it is benificial for you also but I wouldn't want it used as the 1st string and be tired and worn out or not available when you need it as you should have 1st option since you are not getting compensated. I thought you were going to say you at least got lessons at a discount. Sounds like your trainer is all one sided. She doesn't want you to move or she will lose lessons and a boarder so the balls in your court.


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## churumbeque

Joe4d said:


> I just dont get why this is an Issue, have some backbone, sorry I am not trying to be mean, but good night irene, It is your horse, stop being a doormat,


 I didn't think she was being a doormat but just getting some opinions on what is standard. If she was a doormat she would have signed the 1st contract giving the trainer full control.


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## franknbeans

mls said:


> There is no customary practice in the horse world. Everything is a case by case basis.
> 
> I use boarders horses as lesson horses. They are not compensated by a board reduction or paid. They don't have to pay ME to groom or work the horse.


Being used as a lesson horse is NOT having an experienced rider riding the horse. Totally different. THe lesson kids groom this horse and ride it-I would bet on it. IT is certainly NOT the trainer.

OP-it is some advantage to have your horse consistently worked. However, because if this arrangement, you really have no idea how much he is being worked. As his owner, you should know that. I would also say, that you should , at the very least, have a chat with this "trainer" and let her know that you and you r daughter are both using this horse. You do NOT want him over used. Therefore, you will need her current schedule, and she will need to understand that there will be times when your horse may not be as available for her-since the horse deserves a day off, and you and daughter both ride......

I also agree that she has taken advantage of you. Prior to you taking over this horse, it sounds like the old owners were not paying. She was using the horse IN EXCHANGE. Then you came into the picture-now, the "trainer" in totally winning. SHe gets paid board AND gets a lesson horse. That is just NOT fair. She should give you SOME compensation, IMO. Otherwise, I would limit her use, severely, and, as has been said-be ready to move. Disappointed as you may feel, you think she is your friend, but true friends do NOT do this to each other. JMHO. She is using you. THAT would **** me off.


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## Cruiser

Just wondering if the trainers insurance would cover her horse? I know that my family member went through a problem when board was exchanged for the horse's use in a lesson program. A little girl got slammed into a kick wall and broke her arm, and guess who got the back lash, not the trainer. This horse was also a babysitter horse, but another horse bolted through the arena scaring him, so he jumped into the wall. I would worry about the liability, of not having a contract and insurance.

Also when they removed the horse, the owner of the barn threatened to sue for the cost of all the board they didn't pay, but they went back and figured out how much money the horse had made for them at $40 a lesson 5 times a week for two years, the owner really made over $10 000 on that horse.


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## Daisy25

In my opinion, this Trainer has treated you unfairly and completely taken advantage of your inexperience.

She KNEW that you were not an experienced horse person and was not familiar with how things typically work in this sort of situation.

The horse's previous owner did not ride and was no longer interested in owning. IF the Trainer had wanted to use this horse as a lesson horse, that was the perfect opportunity to take ownership for herself. 

Instead, the Trainer made an arrangement whereby the OP is 100% financially responsibly for the horse's health care (shoeing, vax, vet care) PLUS full board PLUS lessons....and the Trainer gets to use the horse absolutely free.

NOT COOL!!! (Well, GREAT deal for the Trainer - LOUSY deal for you!!!)

Yes - time to speak up.

And frankly, with the way she's behaved? You shouldn't CARE if the Trainer gets upset with you. She's pulled a fast-one on you. Shame on her!


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## Corporal

That's OUR legal system. EVERY legal solution awarded is either Money or Time.


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## LoveHipHop

If I were you, I'd definately speak to her and try to get some formal agreement sorted out. The horse belongs to you now, and maybe the previous owners let her use the horse this way, but you don't have to. She probably has plenty of other horses she can use - one won't make a difference!

I'm sure it's already been said, but having people take lessons on your horse can teach it bad habits which you obviously don't want, and you should have the final say on who rides your horse. If you've told someone they can ride then the trainer has no grounds to refuse them on - she doesn't own the horse, you do and so what you say goes!

I really hope this gets sorted soon, because it must be very irritating for you


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## AlexS

Joe4d said:


> I just dont get why this is an Issue, have some backbone, sorry I am not trying to be mean, but good night irene, It is your horse, stop being a doormat,


Completely disagree. She is wanting to do something about the situation, she is just asking how to do that in a tactful way to maintain a good relationship. 



A potential issue with asking for a reduction in board because of her using the horse is that she could claim that the board is already reduced to reflect this - and increase your board for less use of the horse. 
I think you need to talk to the other boarders and find out what they pay before having that conversation.


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## DraftyAiresMum

So, if you were to show up at the barn when the trainer had a lesson scheduled on your horse, would she tell you that you couldn't use your horse because she was using it for a lesson? That's what it sounds like would happen to me. 

My friend let our trainer use her arab mare for little kids' lessons when she had her. The trainer would call or text my friend every time she wanted to use Cassie to see if it was alright with my friend. If my friend wanted to use Cassie that day, the trainer found another horse to use. 

It honestly sounds like the trainer is taking advantage of you. It's your horse. Not hers. YOU get the final say in when, or even IF, the horse is used in the lesson program. NOT the trainer. I would just straight-up tell the trainer that. Honestly, if she can't understand that you feel like you're being taken advantage of, then she doesn't need to be your friend in the first place.


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## ChristineNJ

themacpack said:


> Typically, board is reduced in return for the use of horse as a lesson horse - are you paying the full asking price of full-care board? If not, that is your compensation for the use of the horse -- if so, you need simply request that your horse not be used for lessons or that you be given fair consideration (the lower board fees) to compensate for the use of the horse.


I agree with the above......You should not be paying full board if she is using your horse. I was going to buy a horse and the owner of the horse who was also the owner of the stable would have subtracted quite a bit of money from my board. Didn't buy the horse but that was really really a good deal!!! The barn was also close to my home.....shoulda, coulda, woulda....didn't. (But if I had more $$ at the time I would have) You should also limit the days she uses your horse because you have to have time to ride also!!! (and let your friend ride too)


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## starlinestables

Letting the trainer use your horse in lessons can be a good thing but it has to work for both parties and it clearly is not working for you. Approach her with terms that work for you. "Hey Sally, I greatly appreciate you helping us with Sparky and I'm glad he is working out in your lesson program but we need to make a few adjustments. I don't think it's fair that you use him more than I do, and I still have to pay all the bills. I would also like to set up a schedule so that we can work around each other."

If it helps, I use boarders horses in lessons and I give them $5 off their board each time. It's not much but we make sure their horses are well taken care of. They are thoroughly groomed and inspected..flysprayed.. we clip them and bathe them for free.


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## verona1016

djhmanderson said:


> No, we have no contract in writing concerning her using Horse for lessons. The only contract I have with her is for the full-board. I am so new to the horse world that I don't know what is standard or not. Is it customary to pay someone $$ or lessons for use of your horse? I know if I were to ask that she just wouldn't use him. If it is a practice then how much is fair compensation? Thanks for your help.


At my barn, they compensate $20/hour for use of a horse for lessons. You're also free to limit the number of hours and specific times the horse is used.

If the trainer is using your horse without compensating you (in the form of cash, reduced board, or free lessons) then she is taking advantage of you.


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## newbierider

The trainer of course would like to use your horse and probably feels she is the reason you were gifted the horse in the first place so in her mind you kinda owe her.
I don't blame you for being unsure how best to handle this as I believe it may get a bit messy. i assume you are hoping for a fair resolution with no hard feelings.

Perhaps Joe4D would be willing to be a rent a husband for a day and set the lady straight for you then you could just shake your head and say ..you know men..


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## crimsonsky

any updates OP?


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## Saddlebag

Where it gets sticky is you can bet your booty you will be paying the vet bills if your horse is mysteriously hurt. There will be denial, denial, denial. Hand it to her in writing and ask her to sign that she is not to use your horse under any circumstances. And sometime take an unexpected trip. If you have a schedule because of work, she'll figure she's pretty safe and what will you know? Keep your camera handy. She is trespassing by using your horse.


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## nvr2many

newbierider said:


> Perhaps Joe4D would be willing to be a rent a husband for a day and set the lady straight for you then you could just shake your head and say ..you know men..


:rofl: Love it!

Anyway, I would be ****ed that I was paying all the bills and losing money when I wanted to get paid for someone to ride my horse and she said no. Oh heck no!!! And who pays if the horse gets hurt?? Just wondering. 
Oh and good luck, I totally get that its a sticky situation. You may need to move barns cause it sounds like both of you think you owe her.

Oh I see I was a bit late on the hurt thing.............. sorry.


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## mls

franknbeans said:


> Being used as a lesson horse is NOT having an experienced rider riding the horse. *Totally different*. THe lesson kids groom this horse and ride it-I would bet on it. IT is certainly NOT the trainer.


Maybe - it is still case by case. Completely depends on the level of the student AND the trainer AND the horse. Since we don't know any of these in this situation, you can't say that for a fact (totally different). Do we even know the students are 'kids'?


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## franknbeans

mls said:


> There is no customary practice in the horse world. Everything is a case by case basis.
> 
> I use boarders horses as lesson horses. They are not compensated by a board reduction or paid. *They don't have to pay ME to groom or work the horse*.


 Here is the quote, mls. You are not referring to a random student. 

It make no difference if the riders are kids or adults. To me the difference lies in the level of the rider and their skills. THe ONLY way the OP can possibly benefit from this is IF in fact the riders are advanced and are "training" the horse. The problem still lies with what if horse or person get hurt, and the fact that the OP is LOSING money because the BO is MAKING money on the horse. Something is wrong with that picture.


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## NeuroticMare

Or double dipping. Tells owner they are training, but then giving lessons on horse. Takes money from both. VERY common around here.

A friend of mine (friend A) has a mare that I ride on a regular basis, I posted photos of her on Facebook because she was cute one night. Another friend (friend B) on Facebook said "is that Mare? I used to lease her" turned out the "trainer" leased the mare to friend B, AFTER friend A purchased her, with no knowledge of each other. "Trainer" is also the barn manager and charged BOTH parties for full board on horse. Unreal. 

My trainer borrows my mare on occasion for a quick jaunt up the road with his wife or for his daughters to ride her (both girls have ridden their whole lives and are very quiet riders), but he does not use her for other lessons unless I say it's okay. Once in a while, the gal who leases my gelding will ride my mare in a lesson because her gaits are slower/smoother so she is better for longe lessons and such.


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## crimsonsky

NeuroticMare said:


> A friend of mine (friend A) has a mare that I ride on a regular basis, I posted photos of her on Facebook because she was cute one night. Another friend (friend B) on Facebook said "is that Mare? I used to lease her" turned out the "trainer" leased the mare to friend B, AFTER friend A purchased her, with no knowledge of each other. "Trainer" is also the barn manager and charged BOTH parties for full board on horse. Unreal.


oh lordy would i be ****ed!! i have to ask though, why would you continue to associate with someone with such questionable morals and business practices?


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## Delfina

franknbeans said:


> It make no difference if the riders are kids or adults. To me the difference lies in the level of the rider and their skills. THe ONLY way the OP can possibly benefit from this is IF in fact the riders are advanced and are "training" the horse.


I board with a very good friend of mine and she is more than welcome to use my horse for lessons, extra horse for friends to ride or whatever. I know that she would never let anyone on my horse that would possibly compromise his training. No reduction in board or anything when he is used BUT when my horse came up with an abscess, she immediately offered me full use of two of her horses that would be appropriate for me to ride. I'd say we both benefited here.


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## franknbeans

Delfina said:


> I board with a very good friend of mine and she is more than welcome to use my horse for lessons, extra horse for friends to ride or whatever. I know that she would never let anyone on my horse that would possibly compromise his training. No reduction in board or anything when he is used BUT when my horse came up with an abscess, she immediately offered me full use of two of her horses that would be appropriate for me to ride. I'd say we both benefited here.


I have the same arrangement with a friend, which, since it is a very small private farm, is fine. I would NOT be ok if it as a larger for profit type place. Different scenarios, IMO.


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## gunslinger

JoeD as a rent-a-husband! Are there benefits that go with that job?

Joe you sly dog you.....what a job! I've got to say I'm a bit jealous:lol:.


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## nrhareiner

Most lesson horses around here who are not owned by the trainer have free board where they are at in exchange for being used. If they are not being used but a few times a week then the horses owner gets a % of the lesson money. That is only fair as he is your horse and you are paying for everything for that horse. There is no reason that the trainer should get 100% of the money for a lesson and have no upkeep of the horse being used.


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## newbierider

gunslinger said:


> JoeD as a rent-a-husband! Are there benefits that go with that job?
> 
> Joe you sly dog you.....what a job! I've got to say I'm a bit jealous:lol:.


are you offering your services sir?


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## NeuroticMare

crimsonsky said:


> oh lordy would i be ****ed!! i have to ask though, why would you continue to associate with someone with such questionable morals and business practices?


Just saw this, I don't associate with that person, friend A owns the horse, friend B is another friend, the BO that did the double dipping isn't someone I would ever choose to associate with.


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## Rascaholic

OP any updates??


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## KarrotKreek

Daisy25 said:


> In my opinion, this Trainer has treated you unfairly and completely taken advantage of your inexperience.
> 
> She KNEW that you were not an experienced horse person and was not familiar with how things typically work in this sort of situation.
> 
> The horse's previous owner did not ride and was no longer interested in owning. IF the Trainer had wanted to use this horse as a lesson horse, that was the perfect opportunity to take ownership for herself.
> 
> Instead, the Trainer made an arrangement whereby the OP is 100% financially responsibly for the horse's health care (shoeing, vax, vet care) PLUS full board PLUS lessons....and the Trainer gets to use the horse absolutely free.
> 
> NOT COOL!!! (Well, GREAT deal for the Trainer - LOUSY deal for you!!!)
> 
> Yes - time to speak up.
> 
> And frankly, with the way she's behaved? You shouldn't CARE if the Trainer gets upset with you. She's pulled a fast-one on you. Shame on her!


This ^^^

You are liable for both the horse and rider, you are paying all the fees, and you are being seriously taken advantage of. Even if the horse was used as a lesson horse prior, when ownership changed then the trainer should have formalized an arrangement with you. Using your horse without permission or knowledge is WRONG. What happens if one of those students falls, gets hurt and their insurance company decides to hunt down the horse owner? The liability issue is huge and if you eventually decide to let others ride, you need to be sure you have insurance coverage for this. The barn/trainer insurance is not enough - it only covers their rears.


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