# Group Lesson Sizes?



## Spirit3106 (Apr 27, 2019)

Hi!

So I'm just wondering what people think is a suitable number of people to be in a group lesson?

I spent about 2 years at my old riding school and left because I felt the groups were just too big - could be 8-10 people, but the biggest we had was 14. There was genuinely no time for any personal feedback or assistance from the instructor, and we'd only get maybe 4-5 turns at cantering to the back or doing an exercise.

I'm at a new riding school now and things were going pretty well, only 4-6 people some weeks, however I'm noticing the groups are starting to steadily get bigger (9 today).

I saw a (very old!) thread on this where all the replies said that 4-5 was the biggest they felt a group lesson should be, and I remember groups being that small when I was younger, but in recent years I've honestly never seen a group that small anywhere I've gone. Is this a common thing with group lessons becoming bigger?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Fourteen in one lesson????

At my barn, lesson size got bigger for a while and then it got smaller. The most I've ever seen in one lesson was eight. There were nine one time but then the instructor pulled in another instructor and broke it into two different groups.

I like 2-4 riders, personally.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I've seen 7-8 riders in a group lesson in a very large ring, but that requires a lot of planning and coordination from the coach. Usually when there were that many, we'd all be doing an exercise like serpentines so that several people could be riding in it at once rather than going one at a time. I think a better size group is 4-5 max in a large ring with a well-organized lesson plan. It also depends on what you are supposed to be working on. If this is a jump lesson, then it would be nearly impossible to do that with a large group because everyone would have to take a turn and it would take forever. Still doable with 4-5 people, not with 7-8 or more. 

I've heard stories of very large lesson barns running lessons with 15 kids on ponies at a time who would just w/t around the ring for 45 minutes, not really learning anything because all the coach can do is try to avoid disaster. The coach who was hired to teach these lessons as a young and upcoming coach said the kids never learned anything, but these big lessons barns made a ton of money this way. She now gives only privates or semi-private lessons at her small barn.


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## PinkPrancer (Nov 10, 2020)

The largest group lesson I've been in is 3 people, and I really like that number. I think 1 more rider could probably be added and still feel not too crowded, but any more than that and it might be difficult for a single instructor to give everyone equal attention.

I think larger groups are best suited for more advanced students looking to get general riding time in. I'm pretty much always the least experienced/confident rider in my group and I do recognize that I take a lot of our instructors focus. I've apologized and talked to the other students about it, but they've always been incredibly gracious and understanding about it.


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## Morgan.taylor (Sep 1, 2020)

14 is an outrageously disrespectful size even 9 is large in my opinion. If I showed up and that was the size of my class I would be asking to be moved to a day where I could be given more assurance that I would be getting what I paid for.....a lesson with contructive critiques on each rider. There is simply no plausible way that everyone paying is getting their moneys worth.


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## Amyrides (Sep 15, 2021)

My trainer will not allow more that like 8 (and that’s crazy). Usually lessons have no more than 4, and she tries to reschedule if it goes over 4. 14 is insane. I can’t even imagine lessoning with 8 😳


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## mckenna11 (1 mo ago)

Spirit3106 said:


> Hi!
> 
> So I'm just wondering what people think is a suitable number of people to be in a group lesson?
> 
> ...


Thats a lot. my first barn had a rule that 4-6 per group lesson but I definitely had days were there were way more (in a tiny arena). I certainly feel the frustration. there would be times were all we would do is warm up and then go over a combination/exercise 1-2 times (not enough to actually work on the feedback given to you). The rest of the time we would be sitting in the middle. 

depending on how much you are paying, 4-6 seems normal for a group lesson but I would try talking to your trainer about it if it keeps being as much as you said or try finding a new place.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

It depends on the level of the student and the goal for the lesson. While I think 12 is a bit much in a large enough arena and a solid plan it can be done. Would I want to be in lessons that large on a continuous basis? No. 6 to 8 is a good number. For dressage 3 is ideal. 4 is comfortable though for that or stadium or cross country. Other disciplines more or less may work fine. It is usually to the instructor's benefit to have at least 4.


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## Luna’s rider (Jan 23, 2021)

PinkPrancer said:


> The largest group lesson I've been in is 3 people, and I really like that number. I think 1 more rider could probably be added and still feel not too crowded, but any more than that and it might be difficult for a single instructor to give everyone equal attention.
> 
> I think larger groups are best suited for more advanced students looking to get general riding time in. I'm pretty much always the least experienced/confident rider in my group and I do recognize that I take a lot of our instructors focus. I've apologized and talked to the other students about it, but they've always been incredibly gracious and understanding about it.


Same here…


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## Spirit3106 (Apr 27, 2019)

mckenna11 said:


> Thats a lot. my first barn had a rule that 4-6 per group lesson but I definitely had days were there were way more (in a tiny arena). I certainly feel the frustration. there would be times were all we would do is warm up and then go over a combination/exercise 1-2 times (not enough to actually work on the feedback given to you). The rest of the time we would be sitting in the middle.
> 
> depending on how much you are paying, 4-6 seems normal for a group lesson but I would try talking to your trainer about it if it keeps being as much as you said or try finding a new place.


Yep I definitely remember spending 30 minutes sitting and waiting in between my handful of turns! The old riding school was €20/hr (the same as a few other places I've tried out), I'm not great on sizing arenas but the main one was 20x40 I'd reckon. They had a bigger arena but we only rode in that a handful of times because the owner of the yard wanted only his own kids using it/for showjumping. 

My new place is €25/hr in a 20x40 indoor, and to be fair my instructor is generally also a lot better at time management and juggling turns but like you said there's a point where it's impossible to learn, so I'm going to see what the pattern is with group sizes!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Spirit3106 said:


> Yep I definitely remember spending 30 minutes sitting and waiting in between my handful of turns! The old riding school was €20/hr (the same as a few other places I've tried out), I'm not great on sizing arenas but the main one was 20x40 I'd reckon. They had a bigger arena but we only rode in that a handful of times because the owner of the yard wanted only his own kids using it/for showjumping.
> 
> My new place is €25/hr in a 20x40 indoor, and to be fair my instructor is generally also a lot better at time management and juggling turns but like you said there's a point where it's impossible to learn, so I'm going to see what the pattern is with group sizes!


In an arena that size, the biggest lesson I've ever had had five people, and that felt crowded. I can't even understand how you could fit fourteen horses in there and even one of them could be doing anything.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ACinATX said:


> In an arena that size, the biggest lesson I've ever had had five people, and that felt crowded. I can't even understand how you could fit fourteen horses in there and even one of them could be doing anything.


Right??? That's quite small. My daughter rode in an indoor that size, and hated it when she wasn't alone and had to share with ONE other rider! (not lessons, just lease rides, but still)


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

14 people taking lessons at one time?
I have to think that more than half of those in the lesson were riding their own privately owned horse...
I am positive no barn I ever worked at had 14 horses who were of the caliber and personality to pack 14 w/t riders learning to jump or canter...
Now, they had horses of all levels, but a packer of a lesson horse tolerant to plop around an hour with a learning rider on a tuned-up horse capable of doing and accustomed to doing with much better skilled rider.... would be a lot of dumped riders when the horse has had enough.

14 people taking a lesson at one time sounds more to me a trail ride situation, not a true lesson environment to learn in.

No matter where I have lessoned at group lessons were no more than 5 riders on school horses, mostly 3 - 4 was what was done. We rode in indoors of all sizes but a 80' wide x 120' - 150' long was a common size enclosed.
It allowed us to move out of the way when one rider was learning to canter and needed space to learn a rhythm or how to ride a line....we did not do follow the leader like many places did...and a lesson where riding fence lines it commonly was 1 1/2 hours long so each could be worked with and learn....all got equal time to try and succeed.

The only place I can tell you I ever saw/experienced 14 riders in a indoor ring at once had 2 lessons simultaneously going on and it _was_ a circus...
The ring was cut in half and each instructor taught their group in their half....then we switched sides and worked different elements, but...but it was a group of 7 riders to instructor.
_I hated it.._.it was to noisy, to busy and dang but it got dusty from footing being churned up and hang in the airspace..

Best lessons I ever had were semi-private and 2 riders...another and I.
It gave me a chance for good individual attention but also to stand a watch, learn by watching and catch my breath literally cause its exhausting to be under continuous scrutiny for an hour.... semi lessons were often 45 minutes, private often 30 because constant eyes and correction gets to you too...nit-picking can give you a complex of nothing done is right.

It is a gifted instructor who can work with a group, and the larger the group the more "on" that instructor must be...
For me, when not getting a concept my instructors could and would get astride and demonstrate so the horse understood and I could see what it was needed done.
The more _inexperienced_, the smaller the group and arena to ride in...and then the more advanced riders can do so much more in a smaller space when riding semi or private too..
Group lesson & "advanced" riders often need more space cause you are asking more speed and ground covering of the partner of horse and rider...
Those are my experiences of numbers of riders in group lessons and arena size needed and what works and what not.
But 14 in any "group" lesson is a trail-ride situation and not one to excel in learning at...to big to me and nuts.
🐴.... _jmo..._


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## That.equestrian (6 mo ago)

In my lessons, we usually have between 2 and 10 people, as my instructor tries her hardest to speed lessons evenly throughout the day, depending how many people are having lessons that day, but if there are a lot we use the bigger indoor arena, so it’s not so crowded. My instructor also makes sure she helps people individually and gives detailed feedback. We do flatwork usually, working on skills like half halts and core work, and doing stirrupless work. We then line up in the center, and do a few canters around 1 or 2 people at a time. I think 14 is quite a lot of people to have in a lesson, but it depends how individualised your feedback is and how big your arena is.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I haven't seen a group lesson over 8 people recently and in my dressage coach's small indoor (1/2 dressage court) that takes some juggling and a lot of ring etiquette. When I was a kid in So Cal nobody had an indoor, that was something you heard of but nobody I knew had ever seen. If you were living in the lap of luxury you had a covered arena with sprinklers to keep down the dust, that was our set up. The arena was HUGE, 15 riders didn't seem like a lot. We had shows there a lot and the rules didn't require a class split until over 25 entries for flat classes, so it was ok. We had plenty of room in the arena for a full hunter or jumping course but once we got up to the level where we were jumping full courses, I don't remember our group lessons being all that large, maybe 8. 4 or less was considered a semi-private lesson. Lessons were always at least 1 hr. long. Oh and groups were $5 for an hour.....LOL! And that was with a TOP level instructor! $20 for a private. Can you imagine? We cringed at paying $100 for a clinic with George Morris. 

Somebody said they couldn't imagine a lesson barn having that many lesson horses. My trainer had a bunch of lesson horses. They weren't all suited for beginners. Some were quite challenging to ride, some were green broke at best, some were project horses he'd bought and was working on getting going and ready to sell. Those were all horses that were reserved for his upper level students to ride and school for him, and to teach us how to ride different horses. Back in those days, it was pretty common for judges to have us switch horses and ride them to sort out final placings in large classes. That was definitely a way where riding those lesson horses gave us an edge over the students who only rode their own horses. 

My traibner had his 'show string' of students, maybe 15 of us, and we rode everything he had. We rode 3 group lessons a week (included in our full board & training $200/month) and at least 2 private or semi-private lessons a week and then showed on the weekends. Those of us who were apprenticed frequently rode more than one lesson/day on different horses.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I fondly remember those days, not those prices but those days....
Horses sure have become a hobby to spend oodles of money on..

Wish when I did the clinics those were the prices I paid....
My boss was personal friends with some of the clinicians and when they came to the barn prior to a clinic date it was really nice if I or another was riding and they saw us struggling, a better way to do they would stop and offer in advice....and it worked.
Old-school experienced riders and eyes see so much that is lost today...  
🐴...


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

That's insane...14? Wow. Even 9 is a lot. Back when I did group lessons, the most we ever had was like 5-6? Then it got lowered to 4, which was perfect. 
They should split that many people up into different days.


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## BumbleBear (Jan 10, 2022)

At my barn I ride at my trainer sets a max of 4 people a lesson. I think 4 should be the max just because the trainer should be able to focus and train everyone and give them feedback. When the lesson gets bigger then 4 I feel like you don't do as much and you don't get that personal feedback from your trainer.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I don't get anything out of a group lesson if there are more than 3-4 people in it, regardless of the coach's skill at teaching groups. I'm too busy worrying about where everyone else is and what their horses are doing to put any brain power into learning. I have a compulsive need to keep myself and my horse safe, because I've seen too many nasty accidents caused by two riders each not realising the other was there... and my mare is sensitive enough that a near miss would rattle her for days, even weeks. I can handle it in the warmup arena because I don't have to try to learn at the same time, but in lesson situations, nope. 4 max, and that's a stretch.

My ideal lesson is a private one, so I can wholly focus on the coach and my horse, but I will suck it up and deal with a group situation if I'm using it to expose my horse to being ridden in group settings, or if I want access to that coach and a private lesson isn't an option.


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