# My "gelding" a "stud"?



## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

So I am having some concerns. I have owned my yearling since he was 7 months old, he is now 17 months old. Withing that first month, he was what should have been gelded. Everything went well, he was a bit sore then all good. I have recently over the last month started to wonder if there is a chance he might either not been done properly (it was a young vet who did the procedure). 

I have been observing him and when working with him, I have found his temper to be very studdly. I also find his neck development to be quite thick. I questioned my trainer what she thought of it and my worry and she agreed. Time passed and I didn't get worried. The farrier came yesterday and questioned me when he saw him and asked me when I was going to geld him :? Minutes later a new border asked me what my stud's breeding was :?

Now I can't recall what I saw being removed when he should have been gelded and I am aware that it takes some time for a horse to adjust, but what about an 8 month old foal?? do they really need time to adjust to nothing? because he wasn't developped at all at that age where as now I find he is a lot more muscular for his age than other horses of his breed. Out in pasture he does not do anything with the mares. He is the best mannered horse out there. He doesn't mount, he doesnt sniff tho as I said his temper when handled resembles a lot that of a stud. He does also like his poop piles (which I have also seen geldings like).

Could it be possible that something might have been left behind? Right now assuming that he was indeed gelded, is it possible he simply producing more hormone than usual which causes that development?


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## Skyhuntress (Sep 9, 2008)

You watched the gelding though, didn't you? The vet removed both testes? I would assume yes, because even the dumbest vet is aware of the complications of leaving a testical, and I'm pretty sure you would have noticed had he not done two snips 

However, there is also the possibilty that he is proud cut. Not because the vet missed anything (honestly, its been years since I've heard of the vet missing anything in a gelding!) but maybe because he is producing more than normal testosterone in his adrenal glands. 

I don't think his neck development is abnormal for his breed though, is it? It didn't look overly thick or cresty to me. It just looked like he was starting to fill out the way he should. Maybe it looks weird because you were used to seeing it thin before? 

When you mean that his attitude is really studdy, do you mean that he's rearing and striking and squealing? Or being overly involved with the mares? Because that's typical stud colt behavior for those that aren't taught differently or gelded. 

Or is he maybe just not listening to you as much? Or invading your space? 
I would guess that he's just testing you out. Remember, they say that yearlings and two year olds are like equivalent to 7 year old kids. Smart, irritating and always testing the limits 


So I'd play it by ear for a bit. I would guess that he's likely figuring out what to get away with, and if your constant with him, you'll see it decrease. (and if not, then you can always have the vet draw a blood sample and run his pannels)


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Hmmm... how strange! Please keep us updated!!


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Skyhuntress said:


> You watched the gelding though, didn't you? The vet removed both testes? I would assume yes, because even the dumbest vet is aware of the complications of leaving a testical, and I'm pretty sure you would have noticed had he not done two snips
> 
> However, there is also the possibilty that he is proud cut. Not because the vet missed anything (honestly, its been years since I've heard of the vet missing anything in a gelding!) but maybe because he is producing more than normal testosterone in his adrenal glands.
> 
> ...


Part of my problem is that I have no recolection that far back of what I saw the vet take out tho I'm sure I would have said something had I not seen the 2 testes being removed (or at least I hope). I've had a couple horses gelded prior to owning him.

As for everything have been removed? that is my question. Could there have been and from the sounds of it, it could be it. By any means, I had him "gelded" for a reason. I went thru the process int he first place for many reasons.
During handling he is a great boy. His level of maturity for his age actually surprises and impresses me on a regular basis. I have never caught him beign friendly with the mares (or the boys).

Once you start working with him, is when you start to notice his temper is quite out there. He is a very go getter type horse and always wanting to come and say hi and always ready to go. He comes and puts his head in the halter himself. When he comes out of his pasture, it seems that it's when that studly-ish temper comes out. I will try to get some photos of him acting that way when I can.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think you can have him tested to see if there was one left behind... Maybe it had not dropped? It's possible that he's just being a naughty baby though... not very helpful am I? And I so wanted to add a super smart reply...


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Hmm, that's odd! Maybe it is just his personality? I mean, hey- some geldings you just wonder sometimes if they're studs, lol. :lol: Maybe you can get him checked though.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

The easiest and fastest way is to have his testosterone levels tested. Just a quick blood test and that is that.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

skyhuntress came out to the barn today and saw him, the first time in quite some time. We took both him and his mare out for a walk and they were both angels. Will still try to get either a video or some photos of what he does. She does think it might be him just being a him in which case that would be a lot more comforting for me.


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## sempre_cantando (May 9, 2008)

mmm its really hard to know... I'd probably say that if he isn't trying to mount mares, he's probably a gelding and the other issues are perhaps just him. However, having said that, i know of several definite geldings who still mount mares. :roll: horses... they just like to make things hard for us lol


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

sempre_cantando said:


> mmm its really hard to know... I'd probably say that if he isn't trying to mount mares, he's probably a gelding and the other issues are perhaps just him. However, having said that, i know of several definite geldings who still mount mares. :roll: horses... they just like to make things hard for us lol


my one mare will mount other mares when they are in heat :shock:... 

maybe he is just at that age where he is trying to see what he will get away with or he is just feeling good. I hope you get everything figured out though


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

My2Geldings said:


> skyhuntress came out to the barn today and saw him, the first time in quite some time. We took both him and his mare out for a walk and they were both angels. Will still try to get either a video or some photos of what he does. She does think it might be him just being a him in which case that would be a lot more comforting for me.


Yeah...because then you can fix it... I had that blood test done on Blue to check his testosterone... it took over a year for him to settle after geldign, but he was like 3 1/2 and had been bred... for color I geuss because I love my blue but I can see his conformation flaws!


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## Moxie (May 28, 2008)

You KNOW I absolutely love your horse, gelded or not he is stunning. I love him... 

I guess my advice would be to just test the waters, give him a little time and see if anything new develops. If in that case, I would have him tested. Is it possible to talk to the vet? Maybe they have records of something like that? I'd be pretty ticked off if you paid for something like that, and didn't get everything you paid for.


I love him.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Well right now he is doing anything at all with the mares which is the most important thing. I'm going to sit tight and keep a close eye on him and see what he tells me. Right I'm starting to go towards thinking he might just be throwing more hormones than he should. Going to see what happens. He isn't old enough yet to be throw into the gelding field  poor guy won't live with his best buddy Calypso anymore.


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## Moxie (May 28, 2008)

She can come live with me. I'd even keep her name. lol


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I will remember that my dear Moxie. I spent some time in the car today just watching them. I've noticed he is very protective of his mare. He herds her around and bites her at the shoulder. Luckily because of her size and her temper she just does the "yes hon, whatever...I'm bigger than you" and she eventually lets him win. Just have to keep an eye on him. Going to ask boarders at the barn to keep an eye on him in case he starts being more bossy or pushy.


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## Loosewolf (Oct 31, 2008)

Maybe not the same thing exactly as topic but, the photo will show that having all of the "parts" seems to not matter at all to all Horses..
Case in point, my bud here, Max, is 20 years old, and has a full time female partner (standing watchfully behind or next to him at all times) ...She protects him (does ALL his dirty work), follows him to the ends of the earth, and Lord what else when I am not watching....I would have to figure that she has no Idea what _gelded_ means ....Hmmm


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Loosewolf, that sounds like 2 of mine. Sis is a very small horse barely 14 hh and 28 years old. Her best buddy in the whole world is Flash 15.3 hh and 26 years old. No matter what, they are always together and he is so protective of her. For a while, I had a problem with my Perch stud trying to mount her and I was going to separate her and Flash to a separate pasture by themselves but hated to do that because they are friends with all other 8 horses in that pasture. I tried separating John by himself but he tended to just walk through whatever fence was between him and the others. I was really worried until I saw John try to mount her one day and Flash charged and knocked John to the ground and stomped on him a couple times. That made me feel a lot better. Keep in mind that Flash is navicular and is outweighed by John by almost 900 pounds. Talk about a hero. LOL

Wow, sorry for hijacking the thread. CDT, I think he is probably just being a turd and a youngster. Some horses are just naturally pigheaded and if he is, I pity you. LOL. Just stay firm with him and he will probably outgrow it. If not, you can always have him tested. Good luck.


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## LauraB (Nov 11, 2008)

Spyder said:


> The easiest and fastest way is to have his testosterone levels tested. Just a quick blood test and that is that.


Worded perfectly.

I friend of mine bought a "gelding" on papers but after about a a year after owning him he started exhibiting stud behaviors (he was 4 when they became very noticable). She had a testosterone test done on him and he had a level of 3.4 which is even on the high scale for a stallion according to the vet. A gelding should have testosterone level next to zero. She ended up having to have a laproscopic surgery done on him to remove the rest of his testicle. Come to find out later the horse was gelded by an amish man and under no sedation at the time. I do believe his breeders (that sold the horse as a gelding) ended up paying for the laproscopic surgery. If they had used an actual vet the vet's liability insurance would have covered the cost. THe horse is now happily a gelding!


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## kim_angel (Oct 16, 2007)

I've seen lots of strange things over the years... and have seen mares mounting mares, geldings mounting mares & geldings... sweet geldings acting like stallions. So it could be he is just acting up a bit. But if you are in doubt, definitely get him checked.


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## amandaandeggo (May 21, 2008)

Here is one possibility . . . *Cryptorchidism* is the absence of one or both testes from the scrotum. This usually represents failure of the testis to move, or "descend," during fetal development from an abdominal position, through the inguinal canal, into the ipsilateral scrotum. It's the most common birth defect of male genitalia. However, most testes descend by the first year of life (the majority within three months), making the true incidence of cryptorchidism around 1% overall.
About two thirds of cases without other abnormalities are unilateral; 1/3 involve both testes. In 90% of cases an undescended testis can be _palpated_ (felt) in the inguinal canal; in a minority the testis or testes are in the abdomen or nonexistent (truly "hidden").
Undescended testes are associated with reduced fertility, increased risk of testicular germ cell tumors and psychological problems when the boy is grown. Undescended testes are also more susceptible to testicular torsion and infarction and inguinal hernias. To reduce these risks, undescended testes are usually brought into the scrotum in infancy by a surgical procedure called an orchiopexy. - A "gelding" at my barn had it and only had one teste removed, the vet who did the procedure did not remove the other one because it hadn't dropped, and it wasn't there to be easily removed, not that its that difficult to remove. They just have to do a little "looking" to find the "missing" teste. The horse at my farm was acting like a stud and thats when we had a different vet take a look, and thats when we found out what was going on. Mind you this might not be the case in your horse, but its not exactly rare, so I figured I'd just let you know.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Thanks Amanda. 

It's been a long time since the original post was started. We have since determined it is just his personality and breed characteristics and not a medical concern.

A very informative post tho, thank you for sharing it


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

I've heard this referred to as being "proud cut" my understanding is they don't remove all the tissue therefore they still act very studdy but cannot impregnate a mare. I know a lot of ranchers prefer theirs this way due to stamina etc without worrying about accidental breedings, however they will still mount a mare and can be very VERY difficult during breeding season so I see it as being pointless and dangerous. The first horse we owned was proud cut, I took him to the vet to have him gelded not knowing any better I thought ok job done...boy was I wrong, When we got our 2nd horse a filly he became very aggressive, would mount her, chase people across the pasture flip his butt around like he was going to kick an all around butthead! Needless to say I called my vet and asked him all he said was "we do all our geldings that way" Ugh I told him well I can't keep a horse that is unsafe around my kids so he was sold. Later we had another gelding pretty much same situation although he had already been gelded we only kept him a couple days and I took him back to the original owner. Since then I've learned ALOT lol the last gelding we had was incredible he was a true gelding and very good with the mares never gave us any trouble whatsoever. Then someone stole him( grrrr ) We don't have good luck with geldings LOL


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## Cowboys girl (Mar 13, 2009)

theres a high posibialty that he is proud cut... like still has one teste left... if thats true then he might be able to breed a mare... but i have a gelding and he still acts like hes a stallion, but he is deffinatly not. its just his personallty. i would ask a diffrent vet to check it out, see if hes proud cut.


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