# Euthanasia: Shooting vs. vet administered drugs.



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank you. We've butchered many cattle and other animals. They drop in their tracks. I'm glad to have learned a little about euthanasia, because I would have possibly made that choice. Most horses we've shot have been emergencies, where this horse is not, so planning could be involved. I would hate to see him suffer while waiting for the euthanasia to work.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

My Vet downright refused to put down my beloved babysitter QH, "Ro Go Bar", (1982-2009, RIP.) She said that the body couldn't be used afterwards. We almost parted ways over this, and the Holy Spirit intervened after she recovered from breast cancer and we are friends, again.
DH and I shot him to put him out of his misery, which included severe arthritis, an injury that just wouldn't heal and his general health was failing. He had gone down once and almost couldn't get up, and I refused to let him go down and slowly die.
I think that the first .38 bullet got him because he dropped immediately, but we emptied 13 bullets into him to be sure.
You need to know where to shoot, or else the horse will drown in his own blood. You draw a line from the ear to the eye, both sides. Where they meet at the middle of the X is where to shoot.
DH and I wept. He will not ever do this again, unless it were an emergency where the horse was broken and wounded and suffering.
All of my other old horses passed away on their own.
If I have to do this again, I will contact another Vet to put my horse to sleep.


----------



## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

I think really if you have the 'time' if you know what I mean then euthanasia but if you don't then I would want to shoot them. My grandfather watched 2 of the horses that were agisted on his property be put to sleep and he said watching the 2nd one get shot (he had severe depression after the 1st horse was put down months before) was easier then watching the 1st one get put to sleep. It really depends some know that its happening and begin to panic and others just go peacefully.


----------



## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

In an emergency, such as a hauling accident, or sever trauma causing the horse major panic and extreme pain, I chose a bullet. In a gradual sickness, such as a cancer, arthritis, bone disease or the like, or an injury that is not necessarily life threatening but causing the horse to lose its quality of life, I would choose the needle. We've had to put down cattle with both options, and neither is easy, but both work when done right. Either option is better than leaving a horse to suffer and die slowly in pain.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

*Corporal; * It seems odd that a veterinary dr. Would refuse to administer needed care. The link I posted mentioned that vet training in Europe included how to euthanize an animal with a gunshot. And that they are specifically exempt from strict gun laws for that purpose. I'd leave it to our European members to verify that. Don't know if American vets get the same training. 

It is true that the drugs used remain in the carcass, and can cause problems if it's taken to a rendering plant. I don't see the problem if the carcass is being disposed of on the owners property.


----------



## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> *Corporal; *It seems odd that a veterinary dr. Would refuse to administer needed care. The link I posted mentioned that vet training in Europe included how to euthanize an animal with a gunshot. And that they are specifically exempt from strict gun laws for that purpose. I'd leave it to our European members to verify that. Don't know if American vets get the same training.
> 
> It is true that the drugs used remain in the carcass, and can cause problems if it's taken to a rendering plant. I don't see the problem if the carcass is being disposed of on the owners property.


 
I think that maybe on the horses passport it could have said for 'human consumption' or something similar, and if so the vet cannot (or will not) Euth the horse with drugs. Instead they would want the horse taken to the slaughterhouse. But if the horse is a pet then it really shouldn't matter honestly so long as the vet knows the owner well enough. 

Over here in the states many vets are taught how to euthanize with drugs, bullets and a captive bolt gun (racetrack and large animal (like cattle) vets particularly if I remember correctly.)

I was taught that the bullet is the fastest and least painful way to do it and so would probably prefer it for my own personal horses, but that choice also depends on the situation as well.


----------



## Sherian (Aug 28, 2012)

the drug used by vets is a barbituate so it can cause an excitement reaction (it is an involuntary reaction of the nervous system, the animal is not trying to fight the drug) if the animal doesn't go down fast enough, (usually those that still are healthy organ function wise)- I always have mine presedated before it is used to prevent this. Where I am you are not allowed to bury or leave carcass out for scavengers, they go for cremation or to the waste disposal so chemical leachate is not an issue.
A bullet is very fast and quite humane if the shooter is accurate, and if it is allowed to discharge suitable firearms in the area.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Sheridan, thanks for the explanation. I didn't know a sedative would do that. Makes sense then of the 2 I've seen put down. The one who had a tough time of it was a well conditioned horse with a broken leg. The other, an old horse whose time had come.


----------



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I prefer to shoot. 

First it is quicker for the animal. And second, their remains don't add toxins to the environment.


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have watched 2 Vet administered euthanasias go terribly wrong. On the first one, owned by a good friend, it went horribly. The horse went down and then proceeded to try to get up and thrashed violently. I went to the man's house, found his .22, found his shells, came back to the barn and the horse was still thrashing, gasping for air and trying to get up. He had a ruptured gut or stomach (diagnosed by a belly-tap )and desperately needed to be PTS. One shot from the .22 and it was over after at least 20 minutes of the most awful struggling you could ever witness. That was about 40 years ago.

About 10 years ago a horse was hit by a car on the US Highway near our ranch. Both front legs were shattered and the owner insisted on calling the Vet, even when my husband told him he would do it for him much more quickly at 2 AM. The Vet finally got there and botched that one about as badly as the one I had put down some 30 years earlier. I had already gone to the house as I could not stand to see the poor horse struggling with 2 broken legs. Husband finally came to the house and got a gun and finished the job. The Highway Patrolman said he was not allowed to do it but he offered his gun to the owner -- who also refused. [I though that was really strange. I never heard of a HP offering his gun to anyone for any reason.] Husband then came and got a tractor and pulled the horse off of the road. 

We have probably put down 15 or 20 horses in our 35 years of marriage. [I use 'we' loosely as he has done the deed on all of them.] We will probably have to put a mare down this winter. We have had her 27 or 28 years and I won't be there. Three of her daughters have been exported to the UK, Austria and Ireland. She has been a wonderful mare -- was ridden until 2 or 3 years ago. I will sure miss her. All have been put down with a bullet. It is very quick and very clean and does not have a chance of poisoning water or predators. For us, it is by far, the better way to do it.

I guess because we ranch and are around livestock all of the time, we look at it differently than city people do. We see it as our duty to the animals that have done right by us for so many years. It is just part of the responsibility of ownership. After witnessing such disasters and knowing that the carcasses are poisoned, it is the only way we will even consider.


----------



## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

A couple of months back we had this horse that died on the Agistment property. Anyway it was horrifying to watch at about 11pm the night before the vet came down and administered pain relief and some other things believing it was colic. 9pm the next night the horse flipped over onto a fence and the owners asked me to come down. 

I didn't realise that the horse was that bad until I got down I told them to call the Agistment owner as he had a gun to come shoot him but they refused they called the vet to come out him down he was over 30 mins away. Anyways in that time the horse started seizing and would get up try to move and would flip and fall all over the place. The vet didn't end up coming the horse went through the tin part of his shelter and died. The vet wouldn't have made it but the worst part is that it could have been over with a bullet in seconds.


----------



## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

When I lived in California, there was a big cat (lions, tigers, puma, etc.) sanctuary and breeding compound. They maintained an extensive database on the genetics and breeding of almost all the big cat breeds kept in zoos and other sanctuaries. 

It was a 401(c) operation and survived on donations and tour income for the most part, although zoos would fund the care of their cats for breeding purposes. While I was taking their guided tour of the facility, I got to talking to the owner, who was our guide. I asked what they fed the cats, and she said it was a combination of chicken, beef, or horse. I asked where they got the horse meat, since she had already mentioned they didn't like processed/frozen, and she said primarily by donation, but that it was difficult for them to take donated horses because they had to keep them drug free for 30 days before slaughter.

I offered my place as her quarantine facility, and ended up taking in several horses over the years I lived there. Some were merely old, some were severely foundered, and one had a neurological issue. It was hard, keeping these horses drug free when I knew I could ease their pain with a trip to my kitchen/drug cabinet, but instead I spent a lot of time doing hot/cold wraps, massages, or whatever. There were only two I refused to let suffer, and those I drugged, then shot. For the rest, when the 30 days were up I'd call the butcher and he'd come get them. He would shoot them, butcher them, and deliver the fresh meat to the cat sanctuary. One horse might last for two feedings, depending on weight.

Where we lived, unless you buried them under at least 6' of dirt, you couldn't bury on your property. They went to the local landfill. I figured it was better if the horses could serve a purpose.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I too prefer shooting with a humane killer. 

In the UK it is illegal to bury a dead horse or any livestock. Hunt kennels play a big part it removal of casualty stock to feed the hounds so, my horses have always gone to the kennels.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Foxhunter, by humane killer, do you mean a captured bolt gun?


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

There is a big cat rescue about 20 miles from me. They will come out and euthanize your livestock (gunshot) for you if they have been drug free for at least 30 days. They then take the animal and use it to feed the cats. Several of the barns around me have used these guys before and I've never heard any horror stories from it. They said they've always treated the animals with dignity and respect, even after the fact. 

When I had to put my mare down, I chose euthanasia. I'm glad I did. The vet did a wonderful job and my mare went quickly and effortlessly. I think if I had chose the other route of a bullet, I would always hear that gunshot. but if her passing hadn't had been as sudden, I probably would have considered the cat sanctuary. 

Every time I trailer, I do carry a .40 caliber 1911. In the event something does go horribly wrong, I don't want to see any horse suffer- especially on the side of a highway. I hate to think about it ever happening, but I would rather be prepared.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

How far will they travel, jenkat?


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Cordillera Cowboy said:


> Foxhunter, by humane killer, do you mean a captured bolt gun?


No, it is a special bullet, one that spreads when it hits. 

Hand guns are banned in the UK but these are allowed with licence. Most vets have them as do all hunts. 

Not sure what calibrate the bullets are I will find out.


----------



## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I'm not against shooting an animal but I often prefer to have them put down by the vet. Usually if I go this route it's because they aren't bad enough to warrant an immediate shot, but they need time to say goodbye. 

My old girl (RIP) was euthanized after an unknown illness shut down all of her internal organs. It was not unpleasant, she didn't thrash, it wasn't botched. She was given about fourteen times the normal dose of a sedative, she laid down, then when she was on the ground she was given pentobarbital which was the final push over the edge. One breath and then she was done. I probably should add that I donated her body to the local vet school, where they then donated portions of her gut to a local string instrument maker who made strings for cellos/violins/violas/basses. So her body wasn't "unusable" it just wasn't for consumption. 

Probably the best use was that her body was donated to teaching more kids how to save lives. I still get a card every year from the local university. 

I've seen animals fight it but recently I've discovered more and more vets are using excessive amounts of sedatives (usually causing death) before using the pentobarbital. Recently I had an old horse put down and the vet had given him so much sedatives that the pentobarbital was just a precautionary measure. I trust my vets with all my being, if your not my vet your not top tier. So she said that recently they've experienced the more sedatives you give the easier it is on the animal. (I probably should add that she blatantly said there's simply hasn't been enough research done into it so it might be pure coincidence.) 

I've seen a lot of vets skimp on the sedatives and coincidence or not that's when I've noticed a lot of 'botched' euthanasias, other than when vets don't install a port which is perhaps IMHO the sign of a bad vet. 

I think that both ways when done correct are the same painless death. If your in an emergency shoot the poor creature. If you have time to say goodbye then go with a chemical euthanasia. However..... make sure that the person doing it can do it right. 

There is room to improve chemical euthanasia and make it safer for the environment and the animal but for that to happen there needs to be studies and people seem reluctant to do them.....


----------



## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Cherie said:


> I have watched 2 Vet administered euthanasias go terribly wrong... He had a ruptured gut or stomach (diagnosed by a belly-tap) and desperately needed to be PTS.
> 
> Both front legs were shattered ... The Vet finally got there and botched that one


I don't know that I would blame the vet in these circumstances for 'botching' the chemical euth, as in my experience an animal already in a panic life-or-death situation is often to the point that drugs _cannot_ work appropriately (and I have seen this in both large and small animals).

Personally, I think a gunshot with an appropriate bullet done by a skilled shooter is the fastest.. but it's simply not an option for a lot of people (especially in the city, as you mentioned). 

So far, all of my personal animals have been let go via chemical euth and they all went quietly. I have attended many, many more peaceful chemical euths than I have 'botched' ones (and being a vet tech, I have seen way more than my fair share of them).


----------



## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

No question. Shooting.
No matter what is said by the industry we don't really know what goes on with the drugs. If the muscle becomes immobile we have no way of know what is going on internally.
The well placed bullet to the brain is absolutely humanely painless. The concussion alone will knock them out so nothing is felt. They never feel their brain getting scrambled which kills them virtually at the same time the concussion takes them down.
As Corporal already pointed out. You must place the bullet right. Never "between the eyes". That would only blow out their sinuses and while it would kill them, it would not be a clean death.

Even with human executions I've always thought all the other methods were inhumane. A bullet to the brain is the best way to kill any animal. 

If I love them enough to care for them I life, then I love them enough to insure that they die clean and as painlessly as possible. It's hard, but I know they did not suffer in their death.


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

As long as the shot is done perfectly correct, it certainly is a very humane and INSTANT way to go. Of course, one "concern" would be to make sure the horse doesn't move right when you go to pull the trigger. 

We've had two horses put down on our farm. Both times, we had our good equine vet come out to do it, and then my dad buried them with the payloader. Both times, the horses went very peacefully and quietly. The vet did a good job. 

I think both are perfectly acceptable ways.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

What is the correct calibre for shooting a horse? 

I don't have strong feelings either way, BUT we are a long way from the vets, especially if the weather is bad, so we need to be able to give a quick and merciful end. Personally I am happier handling a 22, or a 177, but not sure that they are 'enough' gun for a horse?

The only one that has been put down on the farm, my son and husband dealt with for me, poor old girl, I just could not be there for her. They used one of the bigger guns, the .243 I think, but what is the best choice?


----------



## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

My animals have always been chemically euthanized and cremated, but I haven't had to put a horse down yet. I would want chemical euthanasia because I want to be with them when they go. I see euthanasia all the time, and it kills me when people just leave their pets for the hospital to take care of. The animals know when their owners have left them. 

I have nothing against shooting. I just don't think I could have it done to one of my own animals unless it was a dire circumstance. It's a stupid emotional thing.


----------



## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I recently witnessed a very sad and traumatizing situation at the new barn where I board. A haflinger there at the barn came down with a severe case of colic. The BO and 5-6 other people were doing everything they could for him. BO was calling the owner who lived an hour away and had a heck of a time getting her to come out (your horse is colicking. What more does she have to say?!). BO had also been calling the vets she is familiar with and uses and they were all far away and unavailable at the time. She called in another vet who was available but she had not used before. The horse had gone down at noon and they had been working with him since then until the owner finally got there two hours later. The vet showed up a little while later and BO handed the situation off to them. She told them she believed the horse had a twist and would either have to be trailered in for operation or euthanized. She had also recorded on paper everything they had done to the horse and everything that had happened until the vet got there. The vet wasn't interested in it. Owner and vet worked on this horse for over four hours before he finally thrashed himself to death. He was not euthanized nor shot, and I am absolutely sure he was in horrendous amounts of pain. 

To make it worse, the whole thing could have been avoided. The horse was full of black rocks in his colon he picked up at a previous stable. The stable's regular vet had told the owner A YEAR AGO that he needed to be put on psyllium immediately to get rid of them. The owner never did it.

This was a beautiful haflinger that was trained to ride and drive and originally cost the owner over 4 thousand dollars. What a waste. I just can't believe the vet allowed the situation to continue until the horse thrashed himself to death. I don't know if at some point the vet finally suggested to the owner that the horse be euthanized, but if that is the case, the owner obviously did not allow it.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Golden Horse said:


> What is the correct calibre for shooting a horse?
> 
> I don't have strong feelings either way, BUT we are a long way from the vets, especially if the weather is bad, so we need to be able to give a quick and merciful end. Personally I am happier handling a 22, or a 177, but not sure that they are 'enough' gun for a horse?
> 
> The only one that has been put down on the farm, my son and husband dealt with for me, poor old girl, I just could not be there for her. They used one of the bigger guns, the .243 I think, but what is the best choice?


This is quoted from the link I posted in the OP. Note that if using a small caliber. It is important to use a soft nose or hollow point bullet. These will expand on impact. 

"Here's how it's done. Equipment The firearm: A handgun is preferred because there's no need for other personnel beside the person pulling the trigger. The shooter can hold the horse's lead rope in one hand and the pistol in the other. (If a rifle is the only firearm you have access to, the shooter will need to recruit someone to hold the horse on a loose lead. The holder should stand behind the shooter.) The ammunition: Most experts agree a .22 caliber, .32 caliber (common in Europe), 9 mm, or .38 caliber can generally be used for safe, sure euthanasia of a horse. Some say the .22 might not have sufficient velocity and mass to penetrate the skull in a very large, draft-type horse. If you have any doubt, firearms experts generally suggest a .38. To help ensure swift and certain euthanasia, and for decreased risk that the bullet will pass through the horse with sufficient energy to injure the shooter or bystander, experts recommend using a bullet that's soft-nosed (also known as a "dum-dum" bullet), hard-cast of lead, or hollow-point, rather than one encased in a full metal jacket. Most everybody who owns firearms (including a passing highway patrolman) will have one of these types of ammunition on hand. - See more at: Equine Euthanasia - Putting Your Horse to Sleep | EquiSearch "


----------



## Samson5261 (Jul 25, 2013)

My grandpa always used a bullet. Their place was over an hour away from the nearest vets office so they handled most stuff on their own. I remember this little paint mare my grandpa picked up at the local auction. She was all of 13h and maybe two years old. She was about 7 months pregnant when my grandpa got her. She had been badly abused, had whip marks all over and scars on her face from a halter left on to long.

I spent the next 5 months working with her. I still remember the first time she let me touch her nose! She went into labor and I was just so exited to see her baby! Wasn't long before we realized that the foal was HUGE! He was way to big for her to birth on her own. My grandpa went to help her when he discovered that she had been ripped up inside. He got up went inside and got his .22 and shot her. It was over in seconds, she felt no more pain but I don't think I could ever go through it again.

If one of my boys has to be shot I don't think I can watch it. It would be my dad doing it so they will at least have someone there they know. I don't think I would do the chemical just because I want them buried on my place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> What is the correct calibre for shooting a horse?
> 
> I don't have strong feelings either way, BUT we are a long way from the vets, especially if the weather is bad, so we need to be able to give a quick and merciful end. Personally I am happier handling a 22, or a 177, but not sure that they are 'enough' gun for a horse?
> 
> The only one that has been put down on the farm, my son and husband dealt with for me, poor old girl, I just could not be there for her. They used one of the bigger guns, the .243 I think, but what is the best choice?


Please don't use a .22 or any very small caliber. While it can deliver a fatal wound it doesn't deliver the impact you really want. You really want something that's going to hit with enough impact to knock them out instantly. Dead in their tracks. They'll just drop like a sack of potatoes.
9mm, .357, .38 or larger will all work if you want to use a pistol. If I used a pistol my choice would be a Colt .44 round, but I prefer a high power rifle.

If any of my horses survive me my boys will not sell them and will put them down. They know the routine. One holds to the side to keep them steady and looking straight. The other takes one of the 03's and puts a 150-180 grain lead tipped round in the magic spot not quite half way, but close, between the eyes and the ears.
I've told them to skin them out, butcher and eat them. I can't stand the thought of them being recycled into buzzard or worms. Better to become part of a higher life form. And mine will give more meat than they'd need for year.

My problem with chemical method is it makes "us" feel better, because if it's done right it takes the muscle functions out, so we just see them go limp with no sign of pain or suffering. I don't trust that and if you ever see it done wrong you can see why (muscles still functioning and there's obviously internal suffering as they thrash). They could be suffering when it's done right and we just can't tell it, because the muscles are non functioning. I want the muscles and every part of them functioning at the moment they go out so that I know the didn't feel anything or suffer reaching the moment of death.


----------

