# John Lyons? What are your thoughts on him?



## Nokotaheaven

I have watched John Lyons videos, I do like his methods but do not follow him directly. I mean, I do not use just his methods. What is everyone's thoughts on his methods?


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## AnrewPL

I’d be interested in this too, I bought the guy’s book about 18 years ago but could never get past the first few pages, don’t know why.


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## Dustbunny

He has been around a looong time. I did watch quite a few of his TV programs and bought a video. His methods helped me a lot with a mare I was having some issues with.
There are a lot of natural horsemanship guys with a lot of good info. I have found several helpful.


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## Nokotaheaven

Yeah that's what I've found as well. Also I like his methods of how to gain control of the head using just your hands and reins.
And actually something I've kind of noticed, is a lot of the top natural trainers today quote and take things directly from Ray Hunt and the Dorrance brothers as well as using their own methods


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## waresbear

Years ago, he wrote a series of training & troubleshooting articles for Horse & Rider magazine. I was a subscriber at the time and tried most of the techniques, as I was training for the public at that time. The best one was his fix for hard to bridle horses, worked like a charm. The rest were ok, but I preferred other ways. So I hold him in high regard for giving me a useful method that helped me out.


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## Fargosgirl

Lyons was my first introduction to natural horsemanship. Many of his techniques were real lifesavers for me, literally. Other things did not work for me at all.

There are several of the techniques that he has completely reversed his position on, In his early videos he recommended that everyone should be able to ride bridleless with spur cues as the main communication, later videos recommended using absolutely no leg or seat cues, that *all* communication with your horse was only with the reins, when I tried this approach I found the horses I rode got very heavy on the bit and began ignoring the reins because they were confused by my hands in their mouth all the time. Suffice it to say I got myself in trouble may times trying several Lyons technique(probably mostly errors on my part) and a few of them I found made my horse dull and/or angry.

Even though I'm not a big fan of John Lyons anymore (I think his son Josh has surpassed him) there are still things I learned from his program. I still devotedly live by his three prime training doctrines:
1.Human safety comes FIRST!
2.The horse should never be hurt.
3.The horse must be calmer/more focused at the end of the lesson than when you started.


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## cpr saves

While I have not followed him in a long time, I always was Very impressed with those 3 doctrines, as Fargosgirl mentioned. Unfortunately, I attended a clinic with one of his certified instructors and she spent 3 days whipping the living daylights out of my horse and screaming at me. The horse was really trying to do what was asked of and neither of us deserved the treatment we received. I never gave JL methods another thought after that.


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## Palomine

Lost me when, after making big deal about religion, he got divorced, and to some family son had married into? Just a little too off to me.

And also when he started endorsing everything from Pampers to Kotex...just too much sugar for a dime.

And the nail in the coffin was when he was going to be in Mobile AL, and he was advertising that he wanted unbroken 2/3 year old for his wonder training demos.

TB farm contacted his people and said they could have their picks of AL breds. Got told real quick that "John Lyons does NOT work with Thoroughbreds", which tells me he is bunch of hot air...and was told he had refused Arabians and Saddlebreds too.


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## BarrelracingArabian

My trainers mom is john lyons certified and trained my trainers show horse the Lyons methods. I rode with her a short time but I found her hard to get a long as with. She wanted the horses head basically on the ground,hated when I would get after the mare for bucking (spoiled and it was basically one pop from a dressage whip) also very against anything but a snaffle with the slobber straps and heavey reins no metal chin strap or snaps as it was distracting and so on. I do think some of his methods are useful but I couldn't follow him completely.


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## xxdanioo

The old barn I was at the owner became John/Josh Lyons ceritfied. Apparantly the guy she took training from was suprised she took a 3 yr old app to the training thing, I guess he had no interest in apps, thought they were too stubbourn. She showed him wrong, but I still am not sure I like the way of training. She said the first ride was sitting on the horse and then getting off.. I don't call that a 1st ride at all.


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## gypsygirl

i dont mind him, but one of his certified trainers worked with my old horse [before i owned him] he was a super quiet easy going horse and the trainer had him rearing and in a panic in 5 minutes...


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## 6gun Kid

I went to a clinic he did probably 25 years ago now, and found him very off putting. When I want to go to church, Ill go to church. I was there to learn about horse training, not Jesus


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## GotaDunQH

He's another one that can't train a horse under saddle. It seems all of these guys can only train ground work, but when it comes to swinging a leg over and finishing a performance horse under saddle....they just don't have a talent. Perfect example with JL....is the only use hand theory. You will NEVER get a horse to use it's body by JUST using your hand.


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## gottatrot

xxdanioo said:


> I guess he had no interest in apps, thought they were too stubbourn.


I find this very amusing since John Lyons was so proud of the fact that he trained his Appy stallion to do many things even though so many people thought Appys hard to train.

Like most trainers, he has a few good tips but mostly shows "tricks" on horses he has spent many, many hours working with until they perform well on cue. I am jaded about big name trainers since they want to sell people on a method and products. They take horses that absolutely anyone could train and show how little time and effort it takes to ride the horse. 

When any of them comes across a horse with too much energy, spirit or a less than dull personality, they either hide the footage or more often they label the horse as one of those "brain-damaged, crazy, throwback, genetic freak" horses that absolutely no one could ever work with. 

The truth is that many horses require days and months and years of work to establish trust and work with consistency.


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## The Ultimate Alibi

*John Lyons?*

I think he is a great trainer as he teaches you to work with your horse...not against him. The lessons are simple and you get great results with out having to push your horse to hard. I have been using his training methods on my coming two year old Appaloosa and he is learning in strides with out being scared of anything. When I bought him in January he only had a halter put on and led around a few times in his life. Now he stands tied quietly, leads like a dream and respects me in the round pen. I have blanketed him a few times and he stands nice for that too. He is not head shy at all. I have his communicating with cues books and they really do work.

Another of my favorite trainers is Jonathan Field. He is coming to Edmonton in May.


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## equitate

The first ride IS backing, standing, dismounting.


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## xxdanioo

equitate said:


> The first ride IS backing, standing, dismounting.


 
But that isn't technically "riding" in my opinion. That is sitting on a horse. Riding is forward movement, whoa, back.


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## KountryPrincess

John Lyons spouts too much religious garbage. The older he gets, the more he talks, the more religious crap comes out of his mouth. As an Agnostic I find it extremely annoying. I used to enjoy watching him and read articles written by him, but the past five to ten years his writing and speaking are just unbearable for me. Keep it in church God boy :evil:

I am teasing a bit, so please nobody get offended, but when you are trying to learn about horses and someone is using that platform to interject religious beliefs, it is irritating to some and downright offensive to others. If you who are Christans went to a clinic and heard the trainer constantly talking about Aetheism, would that not be a bit weird?


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## SouthernTrails

KountryPrincess said:


> I am teasing a bit, so please nobody get offended, but when you are trying to learn about horses and someone is using that platform to interject religious beliefs, it is irritating to some and downright offensive to others. If you who are Christans went to a clinic and heard the trainer constantly talking about Aetheism, would that not be a bit weird?


If you object to anything a Trainer talks about, you have the choice not to participate and find another Trainer :wink:

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## Saddlebag

Yes, leaving is an option but someone has likely paid a fairly hefty fee to learn more about training horses. My father was a fully ordained church minister and never did he mention anything connected to the Bible, other than in church or at a church group who'd asked him to attend.


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## SouthernTrails

Saddlebag said:


> Yes, leaving is an option but someone has likely paid a fairly hefty fee to learn more about training horses. My father was a fully ordained church minister and never did he mention anything connected to the Bible, other than in church or at a church group who'd asked him to attend.


That may be true, but I always research someone I would pay money to go see, Research would tell you if they Talk about Church, Atheism or anything else you object too :wink:

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## Saddlebag

I even attended a clinic where all I learned was how I parted with my money. For all the hype the guy was awful.


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