# Buckskin...would you suspect a white gene too?



## smguidotti (Jul 31, 2012)

My best guess is that she carries a copy of a sabino gene (there are two testable mutations now). The "frosting" is not related to this though.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

smguidotti said:


> My best guess is that she carries a copy of a sabino gene (there are two testable mutations now). The "frosting" is not related to this though.


I would love to know what lab is testing a second sabino mutation, as I haven't heard of it yet.

As far as the OP's mare - Sabino and frame. Sabino because the face white is fairly symmetrical, and because of the way the leg white is jagged. Frame because the white is trying to spread over the eyes, and because with that much face white I would expect more leg white.


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## doubleopi (Dec 27, 2011)

Thank you Smguidotti
And
Chiilaa I always enjoy reading your posts. I appreciate you saying exactly why you see Frame and Sabino.


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## Plains Drifter (Aug 4, 2009)

Chiilaa said:


> I would love to know what lab is testing a second sabino mutation, as I haven't heard of it yet.
> 
> As far as the OP's mare - Sabino and frame. Sabino because the face white is fairly symmetrical, and because of the way the leg white is jagged. Frame because the white is trying to spread over the eyes, and because with that much face white I would expect more leg white.


Dumb question: Can quarter horses have sabino and frame?


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Yes, they can have sabino and frame (as well as splash, and probably dominant white, as well, though there are no tobianos in AQHA). All of the white pattern genes can hide to some degree and it's a result of these hidden genes that led to the many AQHA 'crop-outs' that had too much white to register and helped form the APHA.


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## smguidotti (Jul 31, 2012)

verona1016 said:


> Yes, they can have sabino and frame (as well as splash, and probably dominant white, as well, though there are no tobianos in AQHA). All of the white pattern genes can hide to some degree and it's a result of these hidden genes that led to the many AQHA 'crop-outs' that had too much white to register and helped form the APHA.


Exactly! 

@Chiilaa "Sabino because the face white is fairly symmetrical" This is not always true. But because it does extend to her lower lip I agree. "and because of the way the leg white is jagged" That could also be an indication of frame. "Frame because the white is trying to spread over the eyes" Sabino does this too, typically, however, in 'maximum white' specimens. "and because with that much face white I would expect more leg white," the amount of leg white is not directly related to either gene - the percent expressed is sporadic if the foal only received one copy of either gene.

But lastly, my apologies I checked my source and I read it wrong


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

smguidotti said:


> "and because with that much face white I would expect more leg white," the amount of leg white is not directly related to either gene - the percent expressed is sporadic if the foal only received one copy of either gene.


False. Sabino does like leg white, where as frame DOES NOT put white on the legs. At all. 



smguidotti said:


> "and because of the way the leg white is jagged" That could also be an indication of frame.


No, because frame does not put white on the legs.


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## smguidotti (Jul 31, 2012)

Poseidon said:


> False. Sabino does like leg white, where as frame DOES NOT put white on the legs. At all.
> 
> 
> 
> No, because frame does not put white on the legs.


I think you failed to understand what I wrote. I never said sabino did not produce leg white. I implied that depending on the gene is expressed could vary the amount of leg white, that sabino doesn't always look a certain way. In addition, I also have seen horses DNA tested positive for frame that had leg white. -_- 

This horse could carry both genes for all we know.


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## AbsitVita (Aug 28, 2012)

The white goes down to her lower lip...


She is BEAUTIFUL! In this pic she looks as if she's saying "I'm the star, this is MY photo shoot so move aside biped!"


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

smguidotti said:


> I think you failed to understand what I wrote. I never said sabino did not produce leg white. I implied that depending on the gene is expressed could vary the amount of leg white, that sabino doesn't always look a certain way. In addition, I also have seen horses DNA tested positive for frame that had leg white. -_-
> 
> This horse could carry both genes for all we know.


..which is what was implied, that she carries both frame and sabino. However, what I'm saying is that if an N/O horse has white on its legs, it's caused by something other than frame, such as sabino.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

smguidotti said:


> ...
> This horse could carry both genes for all we know.


And you are arguing with a point that has already been made by Chiilaa. We KNOW that frame doesn't put white on the legs. We KNOW that another pattern is present.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

So any horse with regular white socks carries sabino? What happened to regular white patterns?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> So any horse with regular white socks carries sabino? What happened to regular white patterns?


Leg white is caused by sabino, splash or tobiano (in theory dominant white too, but I haven't seen one that minimal before). All "regular" white is actually minimal expression of a white pattern gene, just restricted to the head and legs.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

So theorhectically everyone owns a sabino, if they have white at all. There isn't just a white gene?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> So theorhectically everyone owns a sabino, if they have white at all. There isn't just a white gene?


It can be one of the three, or two of them or only one. Sabino isn't the only one that causes leg white, not all leg white is caused by sabino. However, yes, everyone who has a horse with leg white or face white owns a horse with a white pattern.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

There's only 1 testable mutation of sabino that's available right now, so we couldn't know if the "normal" white actually caused by a sabino mutation or some other unknown white pattern. 

But yes, theoretically, every horse that has any white markings has some sort of white pattern causing it.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

What did we ever do before Sabino was found? LOL


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## doubleopi (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks AbsitVita! She is adorable...and sweet..and I think her trainer may be getting too attached and not want to give her up :wink:
I may see about getting her tested later, just to satisfy my own curiosity. I will be sure to let you know if I do!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> What did we ever do before Sabino was found? LOL


Geneticists have been theorising that there are different forms of white for a few years now, probably close to 20 IIRC. Science is just catching up and confirming what we already believe, although it often has shed light on certain myths too. Everyone was surprised when splash came out in three forms, no one I talk to expected that. And it was a commonly held belief that brown was black with mealy, until the agouti test was developed. Turns out it's not


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