# Trying to Kick me!



## rascalboy (Jun 30, 2007)

You're the boss. If you were the lead mare would you let a horse kick you? No, you'd turn around and beat the other horse's butt.
I'd carry a crop and if she kicks, I'd whack her on the butt with it.
Sure some people might think it's 'mean', but I'd rather the horse glares at me, then my having to be rushed to the hospital cause my horse shattered my leg.
I'd also look in to possibly having a training/experienced horse person come in every week or two, to make sure you aren't letting your mare develope bad habbits. Just a thought...


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I cant affored for someone to come in every week or two. For a trainer it will be around $200 and I have already talk to my parents about a instructor and they said no. 

I will try the crop thing, but if I do that wont she have trouble with whips in the future?


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Try lunging her for a bit, to show who's in charge: you.  Do you have a small roundpen you can work with her in, so you can do a lot of groundwork? She needs to know who's boss, & lots of groundwork can usually handle that.


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## Got2Gallop (Oct 22, 2007)

Back when I had my QH gelding, when I first got him, he wanted to test me. When I would groom him and went to brush his belly (and I made sure I did it gently as it can be a sensitive spot) he would kick up and try to kick out at me with his hind leg. It happened twice before I thought hmmmm he's just trying to see if he can get me to back off. The next time I was prepared with a crop and when he tried it again I gave him a decent thunk on the belly, enough so that he knew I meant buisness and he never did it again. It can be a difficult thing becasue you have to mean it and not be tentative because the horse will sense that and try to take advantage especially if you have an alpha mare. In a round pen or pasture situation I personally would have a long longe whip with me and run her off everytime she kicks at you and make her move until you let her stop and repeat that everytime she try's to kick. I'm not a pro but thats what I would try. Using a crop might put you a little too close unless it's during a more controlled situation like when you already have a halter and lead on her.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I have a round yard I can work her in, but Im still scared tha if I do hit her with the crop that she will still try and kick me. Do you think I should just give her back and get something more suitable for my experience? She is very green and I have only had 3 years of riding experience and 4 of handling. What happens if she double barrel's me? Or am I just being to soft?


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## Got2Gallop (Oct 22, 2007)

If your unsure of yourself around her and tentative and you can't get a trainer out at all to help you (I know it's expensive) Do you board at a barn with others who might be able to help you out at all? If not, I think your smart to consider getting a horse better suited to your skill level at the moment. It might be hard if you've gotten attached, but I'd hate for you to get hurt. I don't think there's anything soft about you realizing that she may be a little too much for you to safely handle at this point.


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## Jdun722 (Dec 27, 2008)

Spend a day chasing her around in the paddock with a lead. When she comes to you, chase her off. That will make her want you to accept her because she will realize you are the boss and herd leader and all horses want to be accepted by the leader because they fear being alone. Be dominant over her. Don't give up, she'll come around.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Don't be soft -- be mad! Just WHO does she think she is anyway? She's ONLY A HORSE. You are boss and she's dasn't dare be treating you like that! 

Definitely use a crop if you are close enough. The crop is an extension of your arm and you need to use it that way. She needs to believe that YOU caused the scare, not the crop. In the field, carry a lead with you. If she kicks out at you, twirl the lead and chase her away. Then chase her again. She needs to know that YOU determine when she is permitted into your space and that kicking out will only cause you to become more bossy than she thinks she is. I wouldn't make a point of chasing her unless she shows agressive behavior to you. She needs to associate her efforts to boss you with the result of YOU bossing HER.

Remember -- be angry (under control), not soft and fuzzy. How DARE she!?!


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

Next time I see her I will take my lounging whip and my crop with me. She is agisted, the only other person on the property is her old owner and the owner of the land.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

CrazyChester said:


> My Mare keeps on trying to kick me. I might be working her in the round yard and she will turn to kick me. I would be feeding her and she would try and kick, even when Im out catching her she will try and kick me.
> 
> She has missed all of the times she has tried but Im so scared that one day she wont. I have owned her for around 1 month now and ever since I bought her she has been doing it.
> 
> She also kicks undersaddle, I would give her a nudge and she would kick out. I'm not experienced enough to make her stop, if there is anyway to stop it. What do you guys think I should do?


You have access to a round pen? Put a helmet on, a pair of gloves, a lunge whip and throw her in there. Start off slow and put her in a position where you know she is going to be challenging you and when she does, kick her butt into moving forward and by that I mean forwards. She can canter, gallop whatever MAKE HER WORK. When she decides she is done and stops and turns to face you, praise her and walk up to her. The second she even considers or actually turns her back on you, get her working HARD. 

She'll learn quickly that being a witch isn't as much fun as she thought AND it's safe for you because yo are staying away from her when it happens. Cobalt went thru a 1 day phase of that once tho he never made threats to kick, he never learned he needed to always face me when I approached him.
Depending on how stubborn she is, it might take a few outings like that to get her to the point where she starts respecting you. It sounds to me like she's been pushing you around and you have allowed her to do so.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Also want to add what happened with an old gelding I had. He was a reg. tb and 16'3 weighing about 1,400lbs?? BIG guy. Whenever I would try to load him in the trailer, he would become a complete jerk and would try to run over me and push me over. I did the exact same thing as above. I knew for a fact he was fine with trailers so that wasn't the issue. It was all about respect.

I grabbed a lunge line and a while and did the exact same thing as posted above. 

I would ask him ONCE to load and if he even started to think "no" then I would chase him and make him work SO HARD on the lunge line. It took me 30+ mins the first time before he understood that getting on the trailer when I asked him to was much more simple. By the end of it he was dead tired and realised I wasn't giving up. Never had problems after that. So good in fact I only needed to walk up to the ramp and he would finish loading by himself.

With these mind games, these smart horses it's not a question of over powering them or showing them who's boss but a matter of simply showing them that bad behavior means work. If they were smart enough to play games with you in the first place, they really very quickly learn that hard work isn't as much fun. 
Another BIG key thing is to NEVER let something bad re-occur. Here are some examples with my own guy just over the last week alone.

When I lead him from the field to the barn, he's started to play and grab his own lead rope and he holds on to it all the way to the barn. He's only a baby and as much as I want to yell at him for doing that, I also know he's a baby and is probably going thru a baby punk phase so here is what I did....I went and got a stud chain. It's cold outside and just not fun to eat a freezing cold chain.Problem solved. No longer does that.

Today in the arena, he watched a 2 year old have a spaze attack and Cobalt ended up looking at the horse, no longer paying attention to me whatsoever. What did I do?....I halted him, back him up and halted him again. I waited 2-3 mins doing nothing making sure HE DID NOT MOVE a hair until I said he could. He did it and we went back to what we were doing.

Essentially I end up doing what it is they ddidn't want to do at least 2-3 times longer than how long it would have taken had it done it in the first place. If it's a horse that has to much energy and just doesn't care about your ground work, thats when the making them WORK HARD in the round pen kicks in. If they have the energy to be jerks, they will have the energy to work hard.
I'm done :lol:


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## lovemyponies (Jul 26, 2008)

if you don't see any progress I would seriously consider getting a more easy going horse if you can't afford a trainer. good luck


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## Jdun722 (Dec 27, 2008)

I think in all honesty it sounds like you don't have enough experience to own a horse like that and you should consider buying a different horse that requires less experience.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

When she went to kick in the round yard the other day she got a smack on the bum with the whip and hasnt tried doing it again. I still beleive I need a more quieter horse though but we will see how it goes.


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## peanut (Apr 28, 2008)

my mare was like that when i got her,would kick and bite and try to run me over,kicked me in th butt and had a hoof print on my butt for weeks,lol
lucky it wasnt my back.
I was being too soft on her and she was in control,so if she tries it now i will give her a smack(not hard)mostly for the noise and growl at her.
Now she is like my best mate,but im not soft on her as much and she cant get her way or we'll be back to square one.


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## lovemyponies (Jul 26, 2008)

crazychester, its okay to keep trying but you should think about trading her in for a more trained horse then later on go for a younger horse, just don't want you to get hurt or worse discouraged!


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

lovemyponies

I agree but my parents dont. My Mother is sick at the moment and intill we find out what is wrong with her I cant talk about horses which is why I have been making a little more threads then I usally do. Im more of a lurker so I get nervous posting threads


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

I agree with rascalboy and poptartshop in this one. You need to be the boss of her and let her know what this behavior is not going to fly. Right now she knows that she can pull this type of behavior with you. You are not a bad person if you give her a smack or kick to the gut for it. Like rascalboy said, I would rather let my horse know who is boss, then be rushed to hospital. Lunging her out will also help a lot. Whenever my mare is naughty, she is lunged out. She is a better horse because of it. The more assertive you are with her behavior now, the more she will learn that you are in charge. Remember, horses are herd animals and naturally respond to dominance.


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## minihorse927 (Aug 11, 2008)

CrazyChester said:


> I will try the crop thing, but if I do that wont she have trouble with whips in the future?


 
Whips are effective tools, when used correctly. If you just start beating on the horse with the whip non stop when she kicks, she will associate that as a bad experience. If she kicks out and you give her one quick smack, in time she will link that kicking=smack on butt. I am not saying this is the best solution, but it might work temporarily.

What she really needs is a bond set up with her. Spend time in a round pen if you have one, or use a lunge line. Use body language to move her around the ring. Change things up and spend lots of time bonding with her. When she does something wrong, make sure she knows it was wrong and do not let her get away with it. Spend time with her and make sure she knows your the boss, not her. Horses are herd animals and everything they have a relationship with is seen as a member of the herd, and each has their own place on the totem pole, right now it sounds like she thinks you're on the bottom.

When she kicks out, make her work like CacheDawnTaxes said. Whether it be a trot, canter, or gallop! Move her feet until she wants to stop and then try to go back towards her, if she kicks again start moving her! Like Cache said, in time she will think that kicking is not worth the effort anymore. It will take some time and a lot of patience, but stick with it and do not ever give up. Just make sure since she is trying to kick you to stay a safe distance from her and if you had to be within kicking distance for any reason, get as close to her body as possible, the kick hurts less this way because she can not get as much force into it close to her body. Good luck and be safe!


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## minihorse927 (Aug 11, 2008)

CacheDawnTaxes said:


> When I lead him from the field to the barn, he's started to play and grab his own lead rope and he holds on to it all the way to the barn. He's only a baby and as much as I want to yell at him for doing that, I also know he's a baby and is probably going thru a baby punk phase so here is what I did....I went and got a stud chain. It's cold outside and just not fun to eat a freezing cold chain.Problem solved. No longer does that.


OT kinda but, I have a yearling miniature stallion that does this and I wanted to point out that the cold stud chain being left as the choice to chew on does not always stop them, mine is perfectly happy with the chain, lol.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

After the day she went to kick at me and I gave her tap on the bum I think she has got the point. I was lounging her yesterday and she didnt kick or even turn to kick [I was proud] but she did have a few leaps but they werent near me so I just let her do it. 

Thanks for all the help.

Also if she does kick undersaddle should I get off and make her run around the round yard?


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## minihorse927 (Aug 11, 2008)

If she kicks undersaddle I would get off and lunge her for a few minutes till she gets over it and then get back on.


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## Jdun722 (Dec 27, 2008)

minihorse927 said:


> If she kicks undersaddle I would get off and lunge her for a few minutes till she gets over it and then get back on.


If i were you though i wouldn't attempt riding her yet until she is totally safe on the ground. its mostly a trust in your horse horse trusts in you matter.


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

I agree with Minihorse, for the most part horses respond well to lunging. When she does it, I would get off lunge her out for a few minutes and then get back on. If she keeps doing it, lunge her again, but then don't try and ride her again. If you need to lunge her out for a second time, I would be done after that, take small steps don't overload her. Then come back in a day or so and try it again. Good luck to you!


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

If I dont get back on the second time isnt that giving in to her?
Well Im guessing she is kicking out because she doesnt want to do work and is trying to get me off her back, since she isnt in any pain. So not getting back on is letting her win, from what I can gather I'm meant to be the boss. 

Maybe I should just give her back of a quieter horse. Anyway Im going out to ride her today, I will make her lounge when she kicks out undersaddle but hopefully she wont do it.


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

Its not letting her win if she knows that kicking out equals more work. When you lunge her out, really push at her at her and get her to move. I know this because my three year old tries this crap from time to time. She knows that hard lunging comes from when she is being naughty. you don't want to overload her because that is only going to make the issue worse. She should learn to associate hard lunging with being naughty.


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## minihorse927 (Aug 11, 2008)

Not getting back on the second time is not letting her win. Just make sure those lunging lessons are hard work, don't take it easy on her! Like I said before, when lunging her before you ride her, it will help out with the kicking under saddle also. If she does kick undersaddle I would definitely lunge her but if she continues to kick once you get back on just leave the day with a hard lunging lesson. She will pick it up eventually that kicking=more work and that it does not get her out of work. It takes time and patience, don't expect to see results overnight. These thing take time and lots of patience and understanding.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I lounged her before I rode today and she behaved. No leaping, no bucking, no kicking. The only time she kicked undersaddle was when she got a little lazy and I had to actually work to get her moving, and when Mum had to encourage her with the lounging whip. Other then that she was good.


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## snoopy100 (Jan 14, 2009)

you have too show her whoos boss and if your leading her in and she trys too kick yank on the holter and say " STOP IT " lowdly... always wear a helmet round her when doing her feet or changing her rugs. or if you need to go too extreme and get a whip or schooling whip and smack her on the bum..... and check the saddle fit and bridle and check for pains around the body.... like teeth or back or legs or but soreness.... anyway i hope ive been a help and hope you get on with your horse
.....


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

She is getting better now.

The saddle I'm using at the moment doesnt fit but its the only one I have intill I sell my newer one, and she does it when Im bareback anyway so its not the saddle. She hasnt been mouthed right so I have decided not to use a bridle and just ride in a halter. Teeth have just been floated, feet need a trim but dont give her any pain. No pain anywhere.


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

If you know you saddle does not fit, then I would not use it. Every time that you ride in a saddle that does not fit, you are pinching your horse, causing pain. This is how saddle sores and other issues come about. She probably bucks when bareback because she is now associating you riding her with pain, so she reacts the same. Can you borrow a saddle from someone else until you get a new one? My horse went through the same thing when my saddle did not fit, I am now riding in someone else's and the problem is gone. Also, I would think about potentially switching over to hackamore if you are having problems with the bit. You will have a lot more control vs. just a halter.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

NewHeart said:


> If you know you saddle does not fit, then I would not use it. Every time that you ride in a saddle that does not fit, you are pinching your horse, causing pain. This is how saddle sores and other issues come about. She probably bucks when bareback because she is now associating you riding her with pain, so she reacts the same. Can you borrow a saddle from someone else until you get a new one? My horse went through the same thing when my saddle did not fit, I am now riding in someone else's and the problem is gone. Also, I would think about potentially switching over to hackamore if you are having problems with the bit. You will have a lot more control vs. just a halter.



I put a saddle on layby today that will fit her. The old owner is still riding her and he said his saddle doesnt fit her as well and he rides her more then what I do, Im pretty sure my saddle is a closer fit then what his is. I have thought about a hackamore but arent they more for the western riders?


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

Well first off, what you do with your horse is completely your business, but just a thought, if both you and the previous owner are riding in saddles that don't fit, its going to cause problems. It really does not matter whose is closer fit, if a saddle does not fit, it does not fit. There really is no way around that one. If you are an english rider, then perhaps you should consider riding in a bitless bridle. Anything is going to be better then just a halter. Like I said previously, when riding in a halter, you are lacking control compared to a bridle.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

I just re-read my last post and I sounded quite rude so Im sorry, I just didnt agree for the old owners to keep riding her and when I went to check on her today she was really cranky and I could see the sweat marks of where the saddle had been so I knew he was riding her.

I will stop riding her in the saddle and maybe just go bareback, she did have a saddle sore on her back but that has all cleared up now. I have a saddle on layby that should fit her and that I can change if it doesnt. We drove around town yesterday trying to find a pony sized bitless bridle and they dont have them anywhere. I have found one online and we will be ordering one.

Thankyou and Sorry for me previous post.


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## NewHeart (Dec 10, 2008)

No worries. A small bit of advice though, if you don't like the previous owners riding her then tell them to stop. If you own the horse, you have full rights to say who (if anyone) can ride your horse. If you suspect that it may be causing problems, then perhaps I would let them know that you don't think that it is appropriate. Anyways, best of luck to you and your horse.


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## edozier1 (May 1, 2007)

I had a similar problem with Mick bucking at me when I started him on the lunge or when I turned him out and instead of a crop I would just yell 'HEY!' and throw my hands up and it quickly gets his attention and stops the behavior...sometimes you can't get to them quick enough with a crop and then they learn that they can get away with the behavior by darting off.


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

Thanks


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## SaddleUp158 (Dec 26, 2008)

A suggestion, someone said to get off when she kicks out when undersaddle and then lunge her. I would not get off, and instead just really work her while you are on her to let her know it is not acceptable behavior. By getting off, even though she is getting worked, she is going to associate "oh if I kick out then my rider gets off." So if you feel you have the experience to sit it out that would be the best thing. 

What is your level of experience? I am getting the feeling that you are somewhat inexperienced. If you have the option of giving the mare back and finding something that is more suited to your needs I would do that, just for your own safety. Horses that kick out that much at you are dangerous, and can become more dangerous if you do not possess the necessary experience and confidence in handling such situations. Not to mention you will have a lot more fun with a horse you can trust 100%! If you really like the mare, I would have her checked out by the vet to make sure she is not in pain, and be sure and find a saddle that fits her. Ill fitting saddles can cause a horse to behave in the manner she is portraying.

Something else you can do with her to help est. dominance, in a controlled setting is to do in-hand ground work. Get a dressage whip (they are longer then crops, so you can be further from her hind end!) and stand at her head (have her in a halter and lead rope) ask her to yield her hindquarters by touching her softly with the whip, if she does not move off the pressure start tapping, increase the pressure of the tapping until she moves (reward for the slightest try at first, reward is to stop tapping). Then work on turning on the hindquarter (yield the forehand), work on side passing or leg yielding. By doing these exercises in hand you will be able to develop control of her body parts. Then when you get on her back you will be able to ask for the same exercises to help get her really listening and paying attention to you. In hand you can also work on backing, halting, walking off immediately with you, trotting in hand. There is so much work you can do in hand that is much safer than turning a horse, that likes to kick at you, loose in a round pen (this will allow her much more access to kick at you).


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## CrazyChester (May 5, 2008)

SaddleUp158 said:


> A suggestion, someone said to get off when she kicks out when undersaddle and then lunge her. I would not get off, and instead just really work her while you are on her to let her know it is not acceptable behavior. By getting off, even though she is getting worked, she is going to associate "oh if I kick out then my rider gets off." So if you feel you have the experience to sit it out that would be the best thing.
> 
> What is your level of experience? I am getting the feeling that you are somewhat inexperienced. If you have the option of giving the mare back and finding something that is more suited to your needs I would do that, just for your own safety. Horses that kick out that much at you are dangerous, and can become more dangerous if you do not possess the necessary experience and confidence in handling such situations. Not to mention you will have a lot more fun with a horse you can trust 100%! If you really like the mare, I would have her checked out by the vet to make sure she is not in pain, and be sure and find a saddle that fits her. Ill fitting saddles can cause a horse to behave in the manner she is portraying.
> 
> Something else you can do with her to help est. dominance, in a controlled setting is to do in-hand ground work. Get a dressage whip (they are longer then crops, so you can be further from her hind end!) and stand at her head (have her in a halter and lead rope) ask her to yield her hindquarters by touching her softly with the whip, if she does not move off the pressure start tapping, increase the pressure of the tapping until she moves (reward for the slightest try at first, reward is to stop tapping). Then work on turning on the hindquarter (yield the forehand), work on side passing or leg yielding. By doing these exercises in hand you will be able to develop control of her body parts. Then when you get on her back you will be able to ask for the same exercises to help get her really listening and paying attention to you. In hand you can also work on backing, halting, walking off immediately with you, trotting in hand. There is so much work you can do in hand that is much safer than turning a horse, that likes to kick at you, loose in a round pen (this will allow her much more access to kick at you).


I have been sitting it out the kicks. I have been riding for 3 years, I'm not sure what level of riding I am, I have more of a confidence problem then a exprience problem. Today I found a lump on her belly and she didnt look to well so I'm getting a vet out and I think that might be the reason, it doesnt seem to be sore but I'm not sure.


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