# Different type of paints



## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

How do you tell whether a paint horse is a tobiano, overo, or tovero? And how do they vary from skew bald or pie bald?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

APHA.Com - History of the Breed
The different links (Tobiano, Overo, and Tovero) on the right side will help. 

From my understanding, piebald is black and white and scewbald is any other colour and white. It's not a term used a whole lot in Paints that I know of. I have heard it more from Europeans. I'm not entirely sure about it though.

It also helps to just google pictures. You'll notice the differences in the patterns quickly.


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## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> APHA.Com - History of the Breed
> The different links (Tobiano, Overo, and Tovero) on the right side will help.
> 
> From my understanding, piebald is black and white and scewbald is any other colour and white. It's not a term used a whole lot in Paints that I know of. I have heard it more from Europeans. I'm not entirely sure about it though.
> ...


Thank you  that helps.


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

Here is a picture of my two tobiano's out of my stud.









Here is an overo mare that my stud covered last year









Here is a tovero foal that my stud produced also known as a medicine hat.


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## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

Aw, they are so cute And that really helps. So these are my observations, (correct me if I'm wrong)
- Tobiano have white on their withers
- Overo usually have a bald face
- Tovero are almost all white


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

Tobianos have a shield on their chest and at least three legs from the knees down have to be white. they also must have a solid colored head but can have normal markings on their face like a blaze, star, snip, stripe. White over the withers. They also have spotting around the coronet band.

Overos may or may not have a bald face. Overos don't have like a definite coat pattern it is a mix. Unlike the tobiano which has specific traits. The overo mare had this foal out of my stallion.










Toveros have both characteristics the only ones that are predominantly white are the medicine hats. They have a bonnet of color around the ears but could have a spot of color somewhere else. I would contact APHA and have them send you a poster of the different coat patterns.


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## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

equus717 said:


> Tobianos have a shield on their chest and at least three legs from the knees down have to be white. they also must have a solid colored head but can have normal markings on their face like a blaze, star, snip, stripe. White over the withers. They also have spotting around the coronet band.
> 
> Overos may or may not have a bald face. Overos don't have like a definite coat pattern it is a mix. Unlike the tobiano which has specific traits. The overo mare had this foal out of my stallion.
> 
> ...


That would be great


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Overos look like they're being framed in colour, hence how the Frame gene got its name.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I've always wondered about all this. Glad you posted this thread, OP. =]


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

For what it's worth, not all Paints have patterns. My mare's a Paint, but she's solid coloured. They used to be called Breeding Stock, but are now called "Solid Paint-Bred Horses".


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

> Here is a picture of my two tobiano's out of my stud.


 sorry coulnt resist !...
So he is a tobiano? Is there anything else to the color coat name?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Yes, Lacyloo, he would be a chestnut tobiano.


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

He will be a sorrel tobiano. And most tobianos have two toned mane and tail. The reason why he will be sorrel Lacy is because Sky and Cinnamon wee both sorrel. 

Yes guys Lacy has a foal out of my stud. He is by far the prettiest of Sky's babies ever foaled. 

Most of the beautiful markings found on paints are mostly found on Tobianos at least in my opinion. Hence the reason for the precious angels on his sides.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sorry pet peeve of mine coming through.... NOTHING is "out" of a stud. If you have a foal that came "out" of a stud you're a miracle worker. It is always _by_ a stud and _out_ of a mare.


Lacy - chestnut/sorrel same thing genetically. Your horse is red based tobiano. There is always the possibility for frame as it can and does hide.



Also, technically any tobiano with face white is tovero. Tobiano alone will not put white on the face. Confused yet?


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

My stallion is a registered tobiano. He is not tovero. His registered name is Pocomoonskyeyes. Yes even APHA said that they can have blazes, stars, stripes, and the normal markings that you find on most other breeds.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*facepalm* Yes if you go by the registries he is a tobiano. So is my mare. Genetically they are carrying some sort of overo gene that causes face white. Tobiano in and of itself does _not_ cause face white.


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

I will agree there I guess not sure though. I know when we had him registered we took pictures up close of his face because the white goes under the jaw but APHA told us nope he is a tobiano. His sire is overo dam was tobiano.

Sky has produced solids, tobianos, and toveros. 
4 solids, 5 tobianos, 2 toveros.

The solids all of them have the spotting on the coronet band. We are in the process of having QT genetic coat testing done. I believe that Sky is producing what APHA considers slipped tobianos.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes, according to APHA that would be tobiano. What the genetics say is something different.  like I said in another thread, i would never trust what the registries say a color or pattern is 100%. The registries are to far behind the times when it comes to what is causing colors/patterns.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Thank you NdAppy! How registries are willing to register, often has little relationship to exactly what colour a horse is. Most registered as Tobianos, carry Splash and other colours, which make markings on the face etc. A true Tobiano, has a solid head.

In Gypsies, our Tobianos are really not a true Tobiano, yet we register them as Tobianos. I have seen a few 'trues', but not many exist in any breed.

And thank you again, for bringing up the 'by' and 'out of'. Still amazes me that people who breed, seem not to understand this.

Lizzie


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

FeatheredFeet said:


> And thank you again, for bringing up the 'by' and 'out of'. Still amazes me that people who breed, seem not to understand this.


Well....the foal is originally out the stallion. Maybe that's their logic. :lol:


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I don't think logic has much to do with it. :wink:

Lizzie


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## TinRoses (Jul 11, 2010)

just to throw a wrench in it there's Tovero which is both Tobiano and Overo traits.

Example: my two year old, Fathom, who's Tovero but HOMOZYGOUS Tobiano! (both parents Tovero) 











here she is head on walking with my splash white/frame/sabino mare;


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Pinto patterns are one of those things you just have to learn to spot. My advice is to learn tobiano, and just know everything else is overo. Tobiano is easiest to learn, example








common characteristics, see the spot on her chest? The spots on her flanks? And you can't see it, but a two toned tail (white on top, color on bottom) are tobiano traits, also solid heads (stars, strips, blazes, are all fine, but no bold or apron faces, and blue eyes are overo traits). She's pretty traditionally marked, so I'll show an example of one that is minimally marked,








This one would be harder to learn to spot becaue she's so minimally marked, but the white feet, higher in back, and the spot on her butt that crosses to the other side are good indicators, and I've seen some w/ just a diamond of white over the withers.

Some examples of overos,
Both these are minimally marked, but thier faces give them away,
















Need a better pic of this one, he's abit louder then the other two,









And then here is a tovero,








I consider this guy a medicine hat, but not really sure he qualifies w/ one ear not being completely white. To be a medicine hat they just need a 'hat' of color over the ears, the body can be any color as long as the head is white and ears are colored.

And just a note because I expect to get flack over it, I know they are now saying ANY white markings are some form of pinto, blazes, stars, snips, socks, etc., but as far as I'm concerned those are just normal markings and a tobiano can have them, I don't consider solid horses pinto because of these markings either. I love all the colors and patterns, but I think that's complicating things abit to much!


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Love your Fathom. Certainly a maximum expressed Tobi. We see a great many marked like that in Gypsies.











Looks like with his black moustache and halo around his markings, she has Splash and Sabino going on there too. I also love her little black eyebrow.

Here's a pic of a young Gypsy Horse Colt. He is the opposite of your horse.





















In Gypsies we don't often speak of Overo and Tovero. I think that is more known in Paints. So far, we have never seen a Frame Gypsy. Even though they are not true Tobianos, (ie. most have white somewhere on their faces) we call them Tobiano. This fellow has one little white eyebrow. Abviously a minimally expressed Tobiano. Like most Gypsy Horses, he probably has Sabino of some kind.

It helps to think of these spotted type horses, as being a basically (for example) black horse, with a white T shirt full of holes placed over
it. According to how many and large the holes are, designates whether it is a maxium, medium or mininally expressed horse.

Not all Tobianos have chest chields either, although most do. Lack of a chest shield, indicates Splash as does a coloured moustache on a white base. Halos around the colour, indicates sabino, as does white creeping up the legs, especially rear legs, with ragged outlines.

Lizzie


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## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

That gypsy is gorgeous!


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Poseidon said:


> APHA.Com - History of the Breed
> The different links (Tobiano, Overo, and Tovero) on the right side will help.


BTW, if you're into Paints, you can email or call the APHA and they will send you (free) a nice set of posters you see on their web site (e.g Paint Horse Patterns, Paint Horse Colors, etc).


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Poseidon said:


> For what it's worth, not all Paints have patterns. My mare's a Paint, but she's solid coloured. They used to be called Breeding Stock, but are now called "Solid Paint-Bred Horses".


Mine too!  sire was sorrel overo and dam was a buckskin QH 

Just ignore me on her back lol...I'm not blocking any markings


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

Here is the picture of my stud. 










He is dirty in this picture.


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

He has a half blue eye. He has only passed the blue eye on once to a filly that was marked up like him but with two blue eyes.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Mine too!  sire was sorrel overo and dam was a buckskin QH
> 
> Just ignore me on her back lol...I'm not blocking any markings


Abby's dam was a buckskin overo and her sire was a palomino QH. Sandy and Abby have almost the same markings too. Same pastern, but Sandy's whole face is white. Abby just got a massive blaze.


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## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Mine too!  sire was sorrel overo and dam was a buckskin QH
> 
> Just ignore me on her back lol...I'm not blocking any markings


This picture is adorable


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Poseidon said:


> Abby's dam was a buckskin overo and her sire was a palomino QH. Sandy and Abby have almost the same markings too. Same pastern, but Sandy's whole face is white. Abby just got a massive blaze.


Cool  what is abby's registered name? I wonder if they're related 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

purplefrog55 said:


> This picture is adorable


Thanks! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tejas (Jan 31, 2011)

Fiona is Overo then?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep. Fiona is an overo, and there is no doubt that she is frame overo at that. :wink:


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## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

The paint in this picture is a tobiano, right?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Yep.

Lizzie


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## purplefrog55 (Mar 31, 2011)

FeatheredFeet said:


> Yep.
> 
> Lizzie


Just making sure, thank you


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Cool  what is abby's registered name? I wonder if they're related
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just Passin Bayou.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Well they both have Three Bars but that's pretty far back there  Sandie is Coosa's Playgirl.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Great question OP!! I recently just got into the world of Paints 

A few days, or weeks ago I learned that Rodeo is an Overo. Heres a pic of him...


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