# Not riding related, but anyone here do Intermittent Fasting?



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I did both.. keto first, lost about the same then hit a plateau. Then I went to intermittent fasting to get off that plateau. Loss was minor before hitting another.. The keto was a modified version as I couldn't tolerate hard core keto but the after effects were the same as they're finding in studies now - any significant increase (defined individually) in carbs or return to more traditional diet for many means they wind up with the disease they were trying to avoid.

Covid for me was that trigger as I wasn't consciously aware of what I added back in, in the form of boredom snacking. It wasn't that it was adding in carbs of varieties I gave up but I just ate more of what I was eating which increased the hidden glucose or the obvious that was allowed. Proteins and amino acids that weird now at higher levels also had an impact on insulin.. To be fair I did have a couple of foods that I would eat as a pick me up. Not often, but not something I had eaten in the three years prior to the plateaus and covid shut down. In retrospect if I would have stuck with both even without the weight loss I was looking for I wouldn't be where I ended up. Sugars 500+ and a BP of 210/180. I knew I was feeling bad. Tired all the time, achy, swelling, mood swings. Sweating. OMG, the sweating. Gained back all the weight I had lost and then some. I'd walk with my neighbor and literally leave trails or when I stopped have a puddle surrounding me, my clothes could literally be wrung out. Couldn't physically handle even the little things. My child had taken over quite a bit of what I used to do without me really noticing that. I blamed it on the stress of the new classroom I was in.. It'll be a year this October that I was asked to call a family member to take me to the nearest ER or Walk In Clinic because of those numbers. It's taken most of this past year to get numbers more in line. I'm still not there but headed that way. I feel much better. No more swelling, tiredness hasn't entirely gone but I do have the energy to go back to doing most of what I used to. I've not had to turn to hard core keto which I doubt I could stick to but that was where I was headed out of necessity. I ended up on 5 different meds added to the one heart med I'd been on, at pretty high levels that I am thankful I could afford financially at the time as they gave me a way to slowly come back around diet and excerise wise to what I am comfortable with. While my doctor doesn't advocate getting off meds or even lowering them we've butted heads because I did lower the amounts I'm eating, cut out a few things that I don't need to eat on a regular basis and upped my physical activity which has allowed me to get off all but two of the new and those I take at lower than the lowest dose they make. I have hopes to be able to back completely away because they make it too easy to say why not to things I should avoid because the meds cover me. A dexcom trial helped pinpoint where I could make more changes within my comfort zone and I'm 15 pounds away from the plateau weight at this point. It may take 6 more months to get there and another 6 to get to where I need to be but at least I know I have a good chance of getting there.

Keto doesn't give the body what it needs to use insulin produced, so blood sugar isn't controlled. That leads to insulin resistance, which can raise the risk for type 2 diabetes. Stop keto or slide back into old habits - even if you are still eating healthy and if you are predispositioned then Type 2 comes barging in.


All of that said, take care to stick with it and don't slide backwards. Once you commit, at least as far as committing goes, you can't turn back to even a fraction of where you were eating wise. I'm not sure what happens if you stick indefinitely. I'm sure someone will come up with studies on long term keto.. maybe they already have.. I stopped researching and am dealing with where I'm at.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I just find my appetite is less so eat less, then although I've been told my metabolism is "high" if I ate a protein richer diet don't feel the need to eat again for a very long time.
Had homemade chili last night for dinner. Nearly 12 hours later I am still not hungry nor will I have anything to eat probably till around late mid-morning 11:00ish....then just have dinner I cook when in from work.
If I eat when not hungry I feel awful for the day.
However, I am sitting writing this drinking a cup of hot tea and do have beverage and water during the day_ without_ food.

For me, I don't follow the "newest fad" diet but do read about them...
What works for me seems to be eat what I wish, emphasis on protein and vegetables, skip the carbs unless I really, really want them.
You can keep the breads, potatoes and starches....

When I do want something that can get me trouble it is chocolate and have found if having something like a Hershey's Kiss it stops the want and I can walk away without gorging on a entire bag of the things...my weakness is chocolates.
Handling that craving well has allowed me to maintain my weight as I age...neither to fat nor to thin cause that is just as unhealthy as being overweight. I don't consider myself "fat" but lately _out of condition_ compliments of damaged knees.
Finding your bodies happy place weight wise then maintaining it and a lifestyle is easier for me, my testing numbers hold steadier and.... not being a yo-yo on the scale nor so restricted just works better for me than following some diet to the letter of.
Could I lose a few pounds, I could and have...and slowly it creeps back.
Instead, now doing what I just naturally gravitated toward my weight, and health have held pretty steady for about 10 years... No significant changes...
Would I say I do Keto...don't know. I do me, no name "food to eat and food to avoid" but works and I feel good....

Now if my knee joints would just follow the pattern, they are my problems and facing surgery is not what I want but will be a necessity as I'm already bone to bone grating over 70% on both knees....when I can't take it anymore we get fixed but I know to much, saw to much and do not do well with general anesthesia makes me _very_ reluctant to cross that path.
Years of sports, types of jobs I've had in my lifetime and wear & tear abuse have taken their toll....  
I also have arthritis in my hands and hips...aging is not for sissies is right. Wish I could do what I did 30 years ago, even 15 years ago but a tough earlier lifestyle demanding a lot of my body is now paying me back...
🐴...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Wait, I’m a bit confused. @QtrBel 
you say you were on Keto, then went to intermittent fasting, And that made you sick? Or you went back to eating the way you did before having started Keto? Which thing made you sick? And had you had diabetes before star any of this?
are you saying this if you do keto for some time you can’t go back without regaining all the lost weight?


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## Luna’s rider (Jan 23, 2021)

I do a variation of IF called 5:2 (2 days a week fasting/reduced calories) and I’ve lost 7 kilos. Then had a break, but haven’t gained it all back. I started again today (!) and I really believe in the benefits of this. I like the idea to give my body a rest and not always digest.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

My dad does intermittent fasting, I think every Monday is his day where he doesn't eat.
He's been doing this for several years, and is quite healthy for 87.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> Wait, I’m a bit confused. @QtrBel
> you say you were on Keto, then went to intermittent fasting, And that made you sick? Or you went back to eating the way you did before having started Keto? Which thing made you sick? And had you had diabetes before star any of this?
> are you saying this if you do keto for some time you can’t go back without regaining all the lost weight?


No I stayed on keto and added in intermittent fasting when I hit a plateau with weight loss on keto. That first big chunk of weight loss slows and for many stops. If you aren't where you want to be you have to add in something else. Keto is part of the crisis I had. Perhaps if I had started with intermittent fasting I wouldn't be where I am today. I find at this point I fast without thinking about it. Part of it is habit and part my meds. I also don't eat much when I eat. Studies are showing keto can cause Type 2 when you return or slide back into higher levels of carbs no matter what the source. I was pre-diabetic. Had been since my teens. Had I known those with that predisposition were at the highest risk (basically guaranteed) a T2 diagnosis if they returned to a higher carb level I would have raised the carb levels higher or just went with intermittent fasting and more of the already Mediterranean diet I typically ate. As to gaining the weight back - yes. I feel you would gain the weight back as well as potentially develop more health issues but for me the whole shut down during covid was instrumental in gaining not only what I lost but then some back. Realize I didn't get totally away from keto. I just went from about 45 carbs to 65. When I started that 65 was my "treat" day. Then it became an every day. I'll PM you another plan that I have had more success with and it has diabetic adjustments built in. It isn't wildly different. Something to look at though.

ETA when I used the keto formula to determine carb levels the level recommended was 24. It didn't take a week to know that wasn't sustainable even using net carbs. That was why I went to 45 is and 65 as the occasional.


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

My husband and I do IF off and on. I highly recommend taking a look at Dr. Sten Ekberg on youtube. He talks all about IF, Keto, diabetes, and other stuff. He explains things in a way that anyone can understand what he means.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Question: What is the best diet plan?
Answer: The one that works for you.

I know two people who have had great success with a strictly followed intermittent fasting diet. Both lost quite a bit of weight, and brought their diabetes down to the level that they no longer need meds for it. Once they hit their targets, they were able to splurge a bit. One loves bread, and will treat himself with it from time to time. The other will no longer eat fruit because of the sugar content. But both had good success with it.


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

I do the fasting.... I've done it a while now.... well haven't done it in a while like I should because I enjoy it. I used to do it for religious reasons now doing it because it makes me feel much better..... I don't really follow anyone I just do water on the days I fast. My brother, not sure why, probably because he just discovered fasting sent me a book by Jason Fung that has IF, Alternate-day and extended fasting... I do the extended. But I only do water no broth or anything....

eta: In the book it has study cases where the person that went on IF was able to not have to take meds for their diabetes any longer.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

@tinyliny 
You've done an amazing job at losing so much weight.

I do know people who fast but it isn't something I could do or would be inclined to recommend.

I find the best way to lose weight and then maintain that desired new weight, is to have a good awareness of essential vitamins and minerals and how much protein you need.

From there, you work out your diet on a strict calorie counting regime - avoid empty calories and focus on eating food that's essential for your health.

I know things like rice and pasta can fill you up without the calories being too scary, but they don't help you to shrink your stomach.

I'm terrible for snacking and have very poor self control so I just have to not buy or bake cookies, cake, desserts, chocolate, crisps/chips etc. while I'm trying to lose weight. 

Once I'm back to my preferred weight I can allow myself a few treats and a glass of wine!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've done a keto/IF mix for 5 years now. Lost 30 pounds in the first 6 months. Over the last 4+ years, I've lost 5 pounds total weight while increasing muscle. Systolic blood pressure has gone from 155 without medication and 135 WITH medication to 125 without medication.

I was a very fat kid. Lost 45 pounds in the 9th grade and still had plenty of belly fat left. In my 20s, I dieted down to 125 pound - as a 5'8" male - felt weak as a kitten and still had a thick layer of belly fat. Used low fat diets and calorie restriction to yo-yo diet for 40 years - get up to 185, then diet down to 160-165, then gain weight again.

Still have some belly fat but I can see in the mirror where my rib cage ends. It is the least belly fat I've had in my nearly 65 years.

My normal eating window is Noon to 6 pm. Sometimes cheat on that. Drifted into near "carnivore" because plenty of protein keeps me going. But I've adjusted based on the idea that _lots of blood sugar spikes_ were my biggest issue. So I have one meal a day with SOME carbs allowed - maybe a little rice, or a tortilla, or maybe SOME veggies. My other meal is more like a snack - unsweetened yogurt, or meat, or an egg and cheese omelet. I can comfortably eat this way for the rest of my life - and expect to. Cereal, bread, anything with simple carbs and I'll feel and see changes I don't want.

My wife and I recently started talking about training for a half-marathon - something most of our friends would NOT be discussing! But we feel good enough to consider it in our mid-60s, which says a lot. 




It is important to adjust things to create a way that can work for you for life. My wife has had less success in dropping fat because she is less willing to cut back on fruits - and modern fruits tend to have a lot of sugar. But she has cut back and is gradually seeing the results.


tinyliny said:


> Anyhow, in this way I have lost 45 pounds in less than 5 months. I feel pretty good and hope that I can make this way of living a way of LIVING, for a long time.


That is fantastic! There are plateaus in my experience, but so what? I didn't gain all my weight in 6 months, 3 years or even 10 years, so I shouldn't expect it to all drop off right away! For the last few years, it has been more of a gradual body composition change for me. As my hormone system has gotten back to what should be "normal", my body is gradually getting back to where it should have been. Yes, age gets us all...but in many ways, I feel healthier now than I did in my 30s! Pity that diet can't get me away from needing bifocals... 🤨


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Just want to add that these websites have helped me a lot:



https://www.youtube.com/user/lowcarbdownunder/videos





https://www.youtube.com/c/DietDoctorVideo/videos


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

I don’t do fasting. I do eat breakfast and dinner, but tend to skip lunch as I’m usually not hungry due to eating very high fiber breakfasts (oatmeal usually, or overnight oats)

I changed my diet in April and focused on a more plant-based diet as I had gallbladder surgery a few years ago and can’t process red meat well anymore so hamburgers are few and far between (actually haven’t had one since April, but the local burger place has a mean ahi tuna burger). I still occasionally have a chicken or turkey dish, but mostly stick with fish and plant proteins. I’ve lost 22+ lbs in little under 4 months.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is so interesting!! I'm glad I started this thread. It's just so cool to hear how each of you is thinking about your food, and taking care of yourselves. It brings another facet to our online presences; we are not just horse people, we are also food people.

One of the videos I did watch was Dr. Jason Fung. Funny guy. One of the most impactful things he said was that if you look at society ( North American), the social trends that accompany the increase in obesity that really started in the 1980's, the one he pinpointed was the FREQUENCY of how often people ate. Sure, soda consumption went up , size of sodas went up, size of burgers, fries, muffins, etc. went up. Amount of sugar in processed food went way up, especially as consumers wanted low fat foods. But the thing he looked at was how often people ate.

When I was growing up in the 1960's we had breakfast, lunch and dinner. A snack was rare and only like after a swim meet, when we were utterly famished. normally, if we went to my mom and said, "I''m hungry, can I have a snack?", she would say, "Not now, you'll spoil your dinner". So, we went hungry for an hour or so and ate a MEAL. After dinner at about 6 pm, the kitchen was cleaned and CLOSED at 7 pm. we did not eat until about 8 am the next day.

While not eating our insulin levels fell and our body started to metabolize stored fat (usually from the belly) to keep our body functioning until we next put food into our mouths. It came out to being roughly 12 hours of time when insulin is being released after food intake, and the body is burning that food it eats AND storing some in fat for use later in the fasting state of night time. And 12 hours when the insulin is out of the system and the body uses stored glucose, in fat cells , to keep it functioning. 
The two forms of energy use are different. It's important to have enough time OFF of the food as fuel to get into the FAT as fuel. And toggling constantly between them means that your really never get fully into the FAT as fuel metabolism, and are constantly pumping out insulin, never giving your Pancreas a rest and becoming dulled to the presence of insulin.
That is why he says that one needs that 12 hour minimum, 16 hour better time of NOT taking in anything that will stimulate the production of insulin and digestive juices.

Another thing that I find is important for a person like me who is a food ADDICT is that learning to feel hungry, truly hungry, and learn that it is survivable, over and over again, helps me to feel safer. Safer? you might ask. Yes. I dont worry as much about quantity of food, or the scary idea that I might get hungry out there, so I'd better eat now to prevent hunger, as if being hungry were a terrible thing!

Fasting helps the mind become settled . I am not thinking "oh, I can only eat this, or that and only this much and wouldn't it be nice if I coud have this, . . .blah blah" Yes, I do not eat bread unless there is no other option. I don't eat cookies and cakes and I don't drink sodas. But I don't count calories or carbs. and I just eat until it becomes kind of boring, and then stop That is a totally foreign concept to me, having been a compulsive overeater my entire life. I must be sure not to become complacent . I can never forget that once a food addict, always one.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Something intermittent fasting taught me: There is a HUGE difference between "hunger" and a "craving". Cravings are hideous and honestly, if I want to start having cravings again all I have to do is start eating simple carbs! I like bread and cereals but just a little of those and I'll start having cravings again. Hunger? I can go run 4 miles while hungry....


tinyliny said:


> once a food addict, always one


True for me!


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

In my college years, here and there, I'd have personal training sessions at the gym and be given nutrition advice and workout advice. Usually, these were more built around a "body builder" type of problem, but truthfully, they get the concept of eating CLEAN and eating SMART. Knowing how much to eat and knowing when to eat. (A bodybuilder would never, never tell you to fast, btw. Your body needs fuel at all times.)

Now, I was never serious about it. Typical college kid, you know, always want to lost a couple pounds. 

I also did calorie counting for a while, when I was in grad school. Very effective but it was very time consuming to plan what to eat and to calculate all the calories.

Then later in life when I had child #1, well, I had about 70 pounds to lose. I started the 21 Day Fix and boy it worked good for me. I suppose Autumn might also have a bit of a body builder type style (as she did figure competitions) but the concept is very simple. Pay attention to what you eat, how often you eat, and how much you eat. Portion control is huge! And eating CLEAN is huge. (cook everything from scratch) The 21 Day Fix was pretty each to follow, and something you could actually carry on as a lifetime change, reteaching yourself on how to be healthy. 

I don't exactly eat perfect all the time and I'm not super focused on that right now, but I am a lighter weight now in my mid-30's than I was in my college year. Not that the number on the scale matters (we all know muscle weighs more than fat!!) but I guess it boils down that I am healthy, I take care of myself, and I am *happy* with my body.

Of course, there is no one solution for all. Personally, I can't do the fasting - especially not eating breakfast. I will honestly be prone to throwing up if I do not eat breakfast. The few times I've had to have a medical procedure or similar in the morning and I wasn't allowed to eat, ugggg, I just feel sick all day. Can't do it. 

I get the concept of why fasting works (easier to eat less calories if you just spend less time eating!!!) but I personally really question how healthy it is. And maybe that's because I have had more nutrition sessions with body builders, how your muscles and cells are fueled, how it affects blood sugar, etc etc etc. So fasting is not something I personally agree with.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

beau159 said:


> I get the concept of why fasting works (easier to eat less calories if you just spend less time eating!!!)


That isn't why fasting works. "_Normal" people, with hormone systems working normally, don't need fasting_. Fasting really helps those who are either insulin-resistant or approaching insulin-resistant. Those who have struggled with weight for years (like myself) are prime candidates, while those who never had a weight problem (like my sister) are not. A 20-something bodybuilder wouldn't need it.

After 45 years of struggling with repeated calorie-restricted, low fat diets, trying keto and fasting has been life-changing. It isn't the solution everyone needs, but _those who need it won't succeed using calorie restriction_ because their (my) body would start getting calories from muscle and ignore the fat. That was why at 5'8" and 120-125 pounds (in my 20s), I still had a thick layer of fat on my belly! And why I don't now, at 155 pounds.

It kind of boils down to doing what works for you. But based on the number of very obese people in America, following our adoption of low fat / high carb diets...I think a LOT of people ought to seriously consider fasting. See The Obesity Code by Jason Fung or The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz. The problem of having your body draw calories from your muscle tissue instead of using your fat stores is discussed by Dr Fung here:


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

Dr. Fung is also a great doctor with amazing videos.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

bsms said:


> A 20-something bodybuilder wouldn't need it.


I have 3 friends in their early to mid-40's. And they all have 6 pack abs when they are "primed" we'll call it. All female. And none of them fast. Doesn't work when you are trying to gain the muscle definition and lose the fat ... and maybe even more important for a female. Your body needs fuel for those kind of workouts.



bsms said:


> That isn't why fasting works.


You can't deny that if you are skipping a meal or skipping eating part/all of a day, that your calorie intake will be less. It will be.



bsms said:


> It kind of boils down to doing what works for you. But based on the number of very obese people in America, following our adoption of low fat / high carb diets...I think a LOT of people ought to seriously consider fasting.


No, the vast majority of people are obese because they eat packaged and processed foods, and too much of it. And they don't care.
At least half of my patients I see every day are diabetic.They just want a pill so they can keep drinking their Mountain Dew, have a donut for breakfast, and pizza buffet for dinner. Sad, sad truth. Fasting isn't going to help because they'd likely binge when they eat again and just make it worse.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

beau159 said:


> You can't deny that if you are skipping a meal or skipping eating part/all of a day, that your calorie intake will be less. It will be.


Actually you can. My husband is a prime example. No matter the shift he has worked he gets up and has a cup of black coffee. He skips what would be breakfast and lunch. He doesn't snack or drink anything but water. Then when he gets home he gorges. He eats enough to make up for those two meals and then some. Tops it off with most of a bag of cookies. Or whatever sweet is around. An entire point or more of ice cream. Half of a cake... what ever pastry he has bought that serves at least 4 if not more. 5.6 and 165. Mostly muscle though now he's showing a layer of fat over his abs. It really is dependent on the individual.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

beau159 said:


> You can't deny that if you are skipping a meal or skipping eating part/all of a day, that your calorie intake will be less. It will be.


Simply not true, as many who do fasting have discovered. Now, over time, my calorie intake HAS lowered - but virtually all of my weight loss happened BEFORE I started eating less. But as my body started to function more normally, I simply didn't need as many calories - nor did I CRAVE those calories! Still - I lost 30 pounds FIRST!


beau159 said:


> I have 3 friends in their early to mid-40's. And they all have 6 pack abs when they are "primed" we'll call it. All female. And none of them fast.


And...that is pretty much what I said. Fasting isn't needed or useful for someone with 6-pack abs! Those of us with 40-50 (or 100+) pounds may have a different need. Here is an important piece of dieting advice for anyone who has struggled for years: Don't get advice from someone who is fat, and don't get advice from someone who was _never_ fat!


beau159 said:


> No, the vast majority of people are obese because they eat packaged and processed foods, and too much of it. And they don't care.


Unlike you, I'VE STRUGGLED WITH FAT MY ENTIRE LIFE! I know SOME people who just don't care. Quite a few, now that "fat acceptance" is a thing. But there is a flip side: _Those of us who have dieted and gained, dieted and gained, dieted and gained, year after year after decade after decade, often GIVE UP!_ Why struggle if you are always going to lose? I've spent most of my life running 5 miles a day and trying to follow the approved diets - and the result was a constant yo-yo. I never fully gave up but I _did_ get used to keeping my fat & skinny clothes. If I was extra heavy, I would force myself to lose weight. After I lost weight, I would gain it back! So I needed both sets of clothes!

I fully understand why many have simply given up! If you are going to end up fat anyways, why not follow Ecclesiastes 8:15: "_...man has nothing better under the sun but to eat and drink and be joyful..._"?

Too many in healthcare blame the patient for getting tired of following the bad advice healthcare pushes. And having never struggled with obesity themselves, they don't have a clue how discouraging it is to be told we struggle because we lack willpower. Hint: A guy who is 5'8" tall who has the willpower to diet into the low 120s HAS willpower - but what is the point if your waist is still thick with fat?

I'm bitter, @beau159 . I spent decades doing what the doctors said, and it always failed. And the failure was always blamed on me! *How would my life had been different if I had heard about keto and fasting 50 years ago? *

The first doctor I saw after my initial weight loss on keto told me keto was dangerous. I looked at him seated with his legs spread apart so his belly could hang between them. Then I stared at his belly. It got real quiet. Then I stood up and said I guessed we were finished. But after 5 years, I don't care WHO tells me fasting and keto don't work. I can feel the change and I will NEVER go back!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I hope this isn't too off topic, because this is a very interesting thread. 

Reading about how people with insulin resistance may need fasting to give their body a break from the constant intake...

People say horses need to be eating all the time. But horses with insulin resistance never seem to feel the need to stop, and get obese very easily. I've had the best success with limiting their intake rather than trying to somehow keep them feeding constantly while getting their weight down. This can mean intermittent fasting, which for horses might not be 12 hours, but maybe a few hours between small hay feedings where they don't have a lot of intake on a dry lot or sparse field. I think just like with people, horses can have different needs. The Thoroughbred that is prone to ulcers and colic needs that constant intake to keep weight on and and a healthy digestive system, at least until they rebalance everything after better management. But the insulin resistant horse that is always overweight in my opinion does not need constant feeding, and they seem to have a much more difficult time getting weight off if they are eating all the time. 

I was raised like @tinyliny with schedule meals and very few snacks available. We always went from dinner time or maybe a small snack around 7 p.m. until the next morning at 8 a.m. or so when breakfast was available. So I guess this was intermittent fasting in a way, but that seemed to be the normal routine back then, and there were a lot less obese people.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

I love IF but don't do it intentionally. The whole "it gives the body a break from cookin'" thing. Free radicals from metabolizing... something something? If I have a good breakfast and a pain killer I'm set until evening. I cannot stand eating midday and my god, have to stay away from carbs. They are OK if I'm going bed but sleeping on a full stomach isn't so great either...

I have ADD and I try really hard to be careful what I eat. The brain fog that carbs cause is kinda hard on everyone I think, so its hard to know if its worse for me specifically because of attention deficit. CBT and fear of missing/forgetting things. Honestly, I'm living like I already have Alzheimer's so can't say I'm not prepared. I also agree @gottatrot in that some horses need to be fasted, its just harder to manage with working schedules. And to be honest I've been out there poo picking for an eternity and they wont graze for a couple hours themselves, so it can't be all that bad.

Chocolate is my weakness, absolutely. Ugh. 

Sorry if my post is spaghetti, one of those brain melting days.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

beau159 said:


> I have 3 friends in their early to mid-40's. And they all have 6 pack abs when they are "primed" we'll call it. All female. And none of them fast. Doesn't work when you are trying to gain the muscle definition and lose the fat ... and maybe even more important for a female. Your body needs fuel for those kind of workouts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not remembering what your profession is, but it's in the medical field. It must be very frustrating dealing with people who eat like that, and have diabetes or pre-diabetes. One of the videos I watched (gotta find that link) was about processed foods, and what a huge impact they have had on obesity. The speaker also said that the addition of CHEESE to all these processed and fast foods should be considered as impactful as the addition of sugar. Cheese can be pretty addicting, due to the very good feeling one experiences when they eat it combined with fat and starches.

But, with regard to calorie restriction. I agree that fasting part of the day, or every other day, or in some way regularly will result in a calorie reduction, and thus a weight loss, all other things remaining the same. One of the problems is that eating the same amount of calories ( RC = reduced calories) but spreading it out over the whole day can be HARDER for many persons becuase it keeps the body producing insulin, and the digestion stimulated. The human feels hunger more accutely. Mentally, they devote too much mental real estate to thinking about, counting, visualizing, worrying about . . the food they eat , and how small it seems. The suffering is greater, and more constant.

Dr. Fung's presentation shows that over time, those that ate a calorie restricted diet only lost weight, but eventually returned to their original size. In fact, losing and KEEPING OFF weight has about as good a success record as getting off of and staying off of Meth; about 6 to 10 % . Most do not . 

One of the fascinating things that came up is that once you lose weight, you can not consume as many calories as you used to, AND , compared to a person of the same size, activity level and age who has never gone from FAT to THIN, you will have to eat 20% fewer calories in order to just stay that size . . for the rest of your life. You will never be able to eat the same calories as another person of the same size, age and activity level who has always been that weight.

IT's a terribly unfair fact.

But, back to your patients, @beau159 . Once their insulin production and hormone balances are F'd up, they will exerience a great deal more hunger, and will be on the endless train of trying to calm those cravings. If research has shown that intermitten fasting has actually cured some diabetics , and reduced calorie/ eat 6 small meals a day has not had a lasting track record. shouldn't it be looked at with an open mind?


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I tried both - migraine galore. It leaves me debilitated. So migraine sufferers be warned, these might not be right for you (sadly).


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

The universal weight loss program that works is decreasing calories in and increasing calories burnt - same way we do for horses. I am not a fan of the 'fad' weight loss programs, such as intermittent fasting and keto. Food is fuel, and knowingly making healthy decisions (which may be limited intake of xyz, such as bread or sweets or whatever) the majority of the time is the best thing you can do for yourself.



tinyliny said:


> Husband and I do a limited eating time plan, which I'm not sure qualifies to be called 'intermittent fasting' or not.
> We finish eating for the day by 8 pm ( more or less) and do not eat the first meal until after noon the next day. That's 16 hours of 'fasting'. During the remaining 8 hours we eat pretty much what works well for us, which for me is a low carb diet. Not Keto, just pretty much no bread or baked goods.


I eat very similarly to you - are you not a breakfast person? I can't really be bothered in the morning to make a meal since I don't start feeling hungry until noon/1-ish. I've prepared breakfast sandwiches to heat up for the mornings but even having a quick meal ready doesn't get me to eat breakfast at a normal time in the morning.

I guess the 'program' I follow is intuitive eating, where I eat when my body sends me signals that it's hungry and I fuel it for the tasks I'm doing that day. I don't shy from sweets, in fact I make a batch of brownies every week and have one everyday at lunch - I think it helps with any 'sweet tooth cravings' where I'm less likely to binge on a tub of ice cream at night. I pack a big lunch for work where I can graze throughout the day or have a meal and a couple of snacks. Right now it's tuna noodle, a banana, an apple, a brownie, and the breakfast sandwich if I want it.

I'm trying really hard to get away from processed foods for good - we are typically pretty good at staying out of the frozen food section but the boxed food section is harder... I like Kraft mac'n'cheese for the times when I don't want to spend time cooking dinner, but it's a bunch of processed junk. Lately we've been meal prepping breakfasts (burritos and 'mcdonalds' sandwiches) and scheduling what we make for lunch and dinner ahead of time to help curb fast food/boxed dinners/etc.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

One variation of "intermittent fasting" is more accurately called "time restricted eating". Fasting, to me, sounds like "Go a few days without eating" - which many do. And it works too. I think we have a myth that humans need food constantly, all day, every day, and we don't. Historically, people tended to be like a lot of wild animals: We ate well and gained weight in the summer, then tapered off and half-starved in winter, waiting for spring. But modern humans live where, food-wise, it is always summer and never winter. It is also odd to remember when I was a kid - back when a standard hamburger patty was less than 2 ounces, and Coke was often sold in 6.5 oz bottles. In fact, before 1955, bottles of Coke were always 6.5 oz!

I'm drifting towards OMAD - One Meal A Day - simply because my body is getting used to going without food for 18 hours and stretching that to 24 wouldn't be a big deal. I'm pretty sure carbs & fat wouldn't matter much on OMAD....

A philosophical point: Many people notice that during a diet, our metabolism slows so our maintenance diet involves even fewer calories. They act as if that is a bad thing. But if I can live and function happily on fewer calories, then it means I can spend more $$ per calorie without increasing my food budget! In theory, that would mean better cuts of meat or more salmon. In practice, right now...everything is expensive!

The 80 pound sacks of pelleted hay for my horses have gone from $15/bag to $27 - and still rising. Don't think any food restriction on my part can compensate for that...


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

There's another factor with metabolism that people tend to not think about. It takes more fuel to run a larger factory than a smaller one. For every pound you lose, you will need less food to run your body. I'm not sure why, but it seems like people think the amount of intake they need to fuel a 150 lb body and a 120 lb body should be the same. If you ate a hamburger and french fries for lunch to maintain 150 lbs, you will certainly not be able to eat that same amount to maintain a 120 lb body. 

I feel that many people seem to think they should reduce intake to lose weight temporarily, and then once they become smaller, they will be able to increase the intake again. But the amount of food to maintain a smaller body will be much less than it was to maintain a large body. Yes, metabolism slows, but that is just science. It does not require as much energy to run a smaller car or building vs a larger one. The smaller car has a "slower metabolism." 

You'll notice if you put in a higher weight on a treadmill, it will calculate that you burn more calories per mile than if you put in a lower weight. That's because a larger person requires more energy to run their factory. More energy, more calories, more food. When you weigh less, you eat less. You might be able to eat more than another person, but in comparison to yourself, running your own factory, you will have to eat less.


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

ClearDonkey said:


> The universal weight loss program that works is decreasing calories in and increasing calories burnt - same way we do for horses. I am not a fan of the 'fad' weight loss programs, such as intermittent fasting and keto. Food is fuel, and knowingly making healthy decisions (which may be limited intake of xyz, such as bread or sweets or whatever) the majority of the time is the best thing you can do for yourself.


That’s what I started doing back in April. No fad diets or anything, but I downloaded an app for my phone where I can keep track of my calories, it gives me an allowance of calories for the day (quite generous, I am usually in a deficit) and then I just keep track of the calories I’m eating during the day. Some days I’ll eat more, others I’ll eat less.



> I'm trying really hard to get away from processed foods for good - we are typically pretty good at staying out of the frozen food section but the boxed food section is harder... I like Kraft mac'n'cheese for the times when I don't want to spend time cooking dinner, but it's a bunch of processed junk. Lately we've been meal prepping breakfasts (burritos and 'mcdonalds' sandwiches) and scheduling what we make for lunch and dinner ahead of time to help curb fast food/boxed dinners/etc.


I started learning how to cook recently. And by that I mean actually making food, not just boiling up a box of mac’n’cheese or nuking a TV dinner in the microwave. I got one of those dinner subscription kits, where they send you the ingredients and you make food that’s pretty easy to make and doesn’t take forever. Since I was just feeding myself most of the time, I’d save the second serving for leftovers the next day. Mostly I did it because I was transitioning to a plant-based diet and needed some recipes, but I’ve actually learned how to use things in the kitchen I’d never used before and it’s been pretty fun. And they use a lot of fresh ingredients. It’s also allowed me to try a lot of different recipes I wouldn’t have tried normally (like the time I made a spanakopita mac’n’cheese). I’ve started skipping boxes lately because they’re getting repetitive, but will pick my favorite recipes per week from past boxes and then replicate them by going to the supermarket and getting the ingredients there and make changes where I want to.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

By the way, carbs themselves are NOT the enemy. We function best with plenty of carbs, a good amount of fat, and not that much protein. But, the big thing is that carbs must be accompanied with fiber. The lack of fiber in the modern diet is one of the biggest reasons carb consumption leads to obesity. 

The reason that some people do better on a low carb diet is that they have an addictive relationship with carb loaded foods, both those with fiber and those without. When eating fewer carbs, that 'crazy desire for more' is not awakened in the mind of the carb addict. 

But, yeah potatoes are wonderful foods, super good for you, as are beans. Full of carbs, and full of fiber, and way yummy!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@horselovinguy not to derail this conversation but I wanted you to know that knee replacements can be done with a spinal and light sedation and does not cause the issues general anesthesia does. I have very bad side effects with general anesthesia that worsen each time it is used. I have had 4 knee surgeries, a gall bladder removal and wisdom teeth removal under general and the side effects just escalated. In the past 24 months I have had both hips replaced and as it looks today will have a left knee total replacement by the end of the year. Both hips were done under spinal sedation and it was a breeze recovering from anesthesia. Don't let the anesthesia stop you from becoming pain free!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@carshon you are brave. I could NOT accept any surgery while being awake. The sound of the instruments cutting and such, the heart monitor, etc would totallly freak me out. I had a C-section under a spinal only, and it was HORRIBLE

that said, my husband had a bypass surgery 6 years ago. The VERY deep anesthesia required to completely immobilize you, and literally stop your heart, ended up ruining his bladder muscles control. He isn't incontinent, but rather he cannot contract the bladder, thus can no longer pee. He must self catheterize every time . . for the rest of his life, probably. No one talks about these things; the possibly devastating affects of deep anesthetization. That's one reason it's one of the riskiest and highest paying medical professions. Still no where near as lucrative as aesthetic dermatologists, who make huge amounts of money.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

ClearDonkey said:


> The universal weight loss program that works is decreasing calories in and increasing calories burnt


But that doesn't work for every one. I wish it did. I'd never have had a weight problem. But metabolism and hormonal influences as well as other factors all play a role and in the end it isn't as simple as calories in and calories out.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> The lack of fiber in the modern diet is one of the biggest reasons carb consumption leads to obesity.


Actually...we don't need fiber. Speaking as someone who probably averages less than 2 grams of fiber a day and has now for several years...all that stuff about being needed for "regularity"? It isn't.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

@tinyliny The "twilight" anesthesia they use for joint replacements keeps you under enough that you don't remember the procedure. They can talk to you and ask questions but you don't really remember it. And I agree about the side effects of anethesia - even with pre surgery meds and the patch behind my ears and other meds waking up from general means hours and hours for retching and shivering and muscle twitching. After the last surgery I had burst blood vessels in my eyes from retching so bad and for so long. I was exhausted for days afterward. I am sorry you husband also had long term side effects. It sucks to be one of the small percentage that those things happen to.


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