# Wrong color on papers?



## caleybooth (Mar 11, 2011)

I recently bought this dapple grey Missouri Foxtrotter. However, on her papers it lists her as a Chestnut/Chestnut Roan. She just turned 8. Is it possible that she was born that color and then turned dapple grey? Or did she get sold from the breeder with the wrong papers? How could I find out? The breeder's name is listed on her papers, but there's no contact info. She's a blue papered MFT with Zane Grey and Missouri Traveler E. on her papers several times, so I really hope those are her real papers. Does anyone know how I can find out if they are? The people I bought her from gave me the papers they got with her. I know that the person who owned her before that wasn't the breeder either. :?

But other than that, she's awesome. Rides like a dream!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I would say she was born chestnut. Then started greying before they papered her. So they listed roan as well, which is a common mistake. 

Are you her owner with the registry? You should be able to get it changed to chestnut/grey instead.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

You could always have her color tested and/or contact the registry. I am not sure if they do genetic testing to make sure a horse is who someone says it is not. i know they do with AHQA, APHA, etc. just not sure about MFT. 

Also what colors were her sire/dam. That will also tell you if it is possible or not.


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## caleybooth (Mar 11, 2011)

I do not know the color of her parents. This is the first papered horse I've had. I have not registered her in my name yet, as I've only had her a very short while. I'm familiar with registered animals because I breed AKC registered dogs. On AKC papers they do list the colors of the ancestors. 

So if what I've been reading on other forums is correct, then she probably had a chestnut parent and a grey parent? The people who sold her to me sold her because they wanted to start breeding only buckskins and palaminos and they said they didn't want to use a grey mare because her foals might grey out. I didn't understand that at first, but after reading alot about greys, I understand it now. 

Also from what I've been reading, she will turn white eventually?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

She will turn completely white eventually, yes.

In terms of her parents, one HAS to be grey for her to be grey. Other than that, you can't really guess what colour they are. You could eliminate a few, like double dilutes, but not really many others.

What info about her parents is on the papers you have?


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## caleybooth (Mar 11, 2011)

Just their names and registration numbers. No color/age/etc.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

What are her sire and dam's name. I am wondering if we can't do some looking and find out what colors they were/are.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

caleybooth said:


> I do not know the color of her parents. This is the first papered horse I've had. I have not registered her in my name yet, as I've only had her a very short while. I'm familiar with registered animals because I breed AKC registered dogs. On AKC papers they do list the colors of the ancestors.
> 
> So if what I've been reading on other forums is correct, then she probably had a chestnut parent and a grey parent? The people who sold her to me sold her because they wanted to start breeding only buckskins and palaminos and they said they didn't want to use a grey mare because her foals might grey out. I didn't understand that at first, but after reading alot about greys, I understand it now.
> 
> Also from what I've been reading, she will turn white eventually?


Grey is not a color in the truest sense of the genetic definition. It's considered a "modifier". Every grey horse is a "true" genetic color under that grey. So her parents could have both been grey, and also been chestnut underneath the grey. However, you have to have one grey parent to ever produce a grey - a chestnut X chestnut could never produce a grey.

A lot of breeders don't want grey in their herd, especially when breeding for color because it hides things. There's not a lot of point in breeding for buckskin or palomino if it could be hidden by grey.

Horses are almost always born solid and grey out eventually. So yeah, often people will wait to register a horse with a grey parent just to see if they grey out. We just had an older grey mare at the barn I was at, and you could blatantly tell she was born chestnut because she has the rosey reddish "roaning" type coloring on her flanks still. Some grey faster then others as well!


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## Royal Pine Buck (May 28, 2011)

it is certainly possible that he started greying out. and that he first started a chestnut color. i know a lot of people who had to call the registery and go through steps to change the color.

i am not sure what steps they had to go through... but i also know that they were planning on selling their horses and didn't want to appear like they were having the wrong papers for the horse.

if you're not planning on selling and riding for pleasure (ie; never plan on showing the paper to prove anything), then i wouldn't go through the trouble to do anything. 

if your going to places that require showing the papers i might do it ( if you need to prove ownership??)and if you're going to end up selling i would tryto change the color.

overall no big deal, it happens more than you think with grey horses.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Hey, she is related to MY dapple gray Missouri Foxtrotter mare! My mare is sired by Sun Dust E., who goes back to Missouri Travel E. and Zane Grey. I think my mare got her gray gene from her mom's side of the family though, because Sun Dust E. was not a gray. 

I *suspect* that your mare was a gray all along and they didn't know better and listed her as a roan, so it's likely the same horse. 

My mare is listed as a gray on her papers, but I could see how someone who registered the horse right away would register it by the foal color, and not realize she was a gray. My mare's colt was born solid bay with not a single white hair. But after a few months those white hairs started coming in. :lol:

Anyway, I just wanted to say "hi" to one of my mare's relatives. Same color even! (Although my mare is 17 and has fewer dapples because she is older.) Here is my girl:


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## StormvaleQHStud (Dec 16, 2010)

I will say one main thing I know of. When you are transferring her into your name you may need to have her papers signed by the previous owners or have a proof of purchase agreement signed. I do not know about MFT associations but the Australian QHA you cannot transfer them into your name unless the previous owner has signed and filled out details. Then when I sign the papers you have a spot where you can correct any colors, markings, whorls and brands so that when the horses transfer is complete they send out a fresh copy of the horses papers to you with all details of new ownership and any corrections corrected on it too. You also have to be a current financial member to transfer horses into your name usually as well. Good luck. Can't say much on grey genes other than what people have already said but it's all true. I do not have any greys either as I am trying to breed for color with a palomino grulla and a chestnut so do not want my vibrant colors greying out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caleybooth (Mar 11, 2011)

Trailhorserider, your girl looks alot bigger than my little girl! I wish my horse was bigger, but she's got a big heart, and that's all that matters! Thank you everyone for explaining this stuff to me. I can see little peices of evidence that my mare used to be chestnut. The gray dapples on her flanks have a reddish tint to them. And some of the hairs in her mane and tail are red. The long hair on the backs of her legs also have a reddish/maroon tint to them. I'm hoping that she's one of the grays that stay gray or she freckles up. I don't want another solid white horse! Although, at least she'll have black skin and won't sunburn... unlike my maximum white sabino gelding. He'll sunburn in an instant if I don't watch it!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Greys don't sunburn, but they can get melanomas. I haven't experienced this first hand, but I have read that something like 80% of grays will get melanomas. The good news is, they often time don't spread and the horse can life out their normal lifespan with them. I HAVE heard of them spreading/growing though. :-(

Anyway, my girl is fairly large, around 15.1, 1100 lbs. But she sort of has to be, because I weigh around 200 lbs myself and didn't want a horse I would feel to big to ride. :shock:

I think my mare used to be black. All her fleabites and a spot on her forehead are black. Black is my favorite horse color and so I will sometimes tell people I finally got my black horse with Isabelle and they look at me all weird. :rofl:

My "black" horse:


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