# Bridle Horses



## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

Has anyone on here ever worked with a "bridle horse" The kind that is made with a hackamore, two-rein, and a spade bit. I have been doing quite a bit of research on the making of a bridle horse lately and was curious if anyone on the forum has ridden a bridle horse. They are a thing of beauty!


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Toymanator said:


> Has anyone on here ever worked with a "bridle horse" The kind that is made with a hackamore, two-rein, and a spade bit. I have been doing quite a bit of research on the making of a bridle horse lately and was curious if anyone on the forum has ridden a bridle horse. They are a thing of beauty!


I can think of a few members, besides me, here who have. 

I guess I always think of getting them trained to that point as functional, rather than the asthetics.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have trained and shown a few bridle horses. I am very familiar with the methods.

Two horses I raised and sold are in training with Sandy Collier (only woman to ever win the Snaffle Bit Futurity). I have a Soula Jule Star 3 year old I am trying to sell right now that I raised to be snaffle bit / bridle horse. Soule Jule Star is one of the top Reined Cowhorse sires. His dam is a Doc"s Hickory daughter we have. My arthritis has gotten too bad to let me ride one any more.

What are your goals and what are you riding or training? What are you trying to find out about bridle horses?

Cherie


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Cherie, do you have videos of either of them? I can't find much online when I search.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I recommend Richard Caldwell's video on bridle horses and spade bits that can be found on youtube. He's about the best.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Just watched two of his videos about Spade bits. Fascinating!


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Several people at my Foundation Quarter Horse shows ride bridle horses.

I have no idea what's going on, I'm just like "ooooooo pretty bit...shiny...horsieeeeee"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

So, does the term "Bridle horse" mean a horse that is ridden in a spade? Because my horse is ridden in a bridle, but I don't think that counts.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Subbing to hear the stories. 

I have ridden many a horse who are "up in the bridle" in the sense that they show in a curb bit, but never have I had one in a spade. I'm nowhere near that good. :lol:


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

The book "Hackamore Reinsman" by Ed Connell has some good information on the timing of cues to get the best transitions that I've ever read. Best describes how the bit, seat, and legs work together. Pretty sure my own horses were grateful I studied it. 

I've yet to see a camp or cookhouse that doesn't have a copy laying around.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

No, I do not have any videos. I will find out if her owner will put one up of the filly that is close to ready to show in Non-Pro (if her owner does not chicken out). She is a Blue Roan by Mecom Blue out of our Smart Little Lena daughter. 

'Up in the bridle' means that a horse can be ridden one handed with romal style reins. The spade bit is the epitome of bits for a bridle horse, but many are shown in bits with less port and more tongue relief than a half breed or a spade -- mouthpiece like a Mona Lisa.

Les Vogt is my favorite snaffle bit / bridle horse man. He has forgotten more than most would-be bridle horse people ever know. I highly recommend his videos and his 'Cowhorse U' program from anyone that is serious about learning to train a snaffle bit to bridle horse. He has won 15 World Championships. He or his students have trained several horses that we have raised.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

For years bridle horse referred to a highly trained horse that worked or the rider's seat and leg shifts. The spade enables fine tuning. That said, one also has to select the spade which best suits the horse.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

I am a part of a facebook group called "Classic Horsemanship" that focuses on bridle horses. There are some really great hands on the website with videos. It is surprising as I have done a lot of research on it, the roots of "natural horsemanship" were founded from the principles taught by the old vaquero/buckaroo who trained bridle horses.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

Bridle horses are fascinating to watch. They require a different form of training that works off of balance points for the horse, and takes a great length of time to develop a horse to accept the bridle. The spade bit is not a leverage bit instead it is a signal bit to signal the horse a cue is coming from the rider. To see a horse work a cow straight up in the bridle is incredible.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

The idea that bridle horses ride mostly off of seat and legs is not so. They ride a great deal off of the reins and bit.

The bridle horse rides with a romal, so the rider cannot 'cheat' the horse with the customary finger between the reins. The hand encircles both of the reins and slides up and down the reins very little. The reins are seldom 'split' for training -- they are ridden 99.9% with the hand wrapped around both reins. If a horse requires two handed riding to correct the nose position or to achieve a little more 'bend', a snaffle or 4 reins are used.

Bridle horses, as a result of this lack of 'bend', ride a lot straighter than other 'reiners'. Some people think this lack of bend shows a 'stiff' horse. This is not true, either. He just rides 'straighter' when he is in the bridle. He rides with more arch in his neck, a vertical face and does not round his back as much as most high level reiners. He carries his head higher because his ultimate goal is to 'go down the fence' and work a cow at high speed. He has to 'look through the bridle' to do this and cannot be looking at the ground with his head between his knees. This difference has caused a lot fewer 'crossover' horses of late that show in both Reining and Reined Cowhorse.

Back to the Spade or the 'heavy bits' a finished horse shows in. The Spade has a brace above the lower part of the mouthpiece that looks like a copper spring. It allows movement of the cheek pieces. You can wiggle them back and forth. The more movement, the more 'pre-signal' a horse gets from the rider who is wanting to give it direction. Horses learn to carry a vertical face because the high ports and all of the heavy metal hangs on the top of the horse's head as opposed to lying on the horse's tongue. There is room for a 4" high port if the horse's head is vertical. That little bit of 'wiggle' is what the horse learns to listen to and then meticulously obeys the neck-rein.

Some horses work best with more weight, so some romal reins have 'slobber chains', some have 'weighted silver ferules' for more weight and others just have braided rawhide or latigo reins. I have picked up bridles with chains or weighted romals that weighed over 10 pounds. 

Everything on a finish bridle and romal has a purpose. The 'purests' all ride with leather curb straps. The early day trainers I knew did not have a bridle in their tack room with a chain curb. They stayed in 4 rein set-ups until they had a horse finished enough to not require any 2 handed riding or any correction.

These finished horses are so light that a 'wiggle' of the reins or a change of 1 inch up, down or to either side with a rider's hand tells the horse all he needs to know. I have used a piece of light string to 'tie' a rider's hand to the saddle horn and give them less than 3 inches of string to move their rein hand. They had to be able to do this to be ready to show a bridle horse.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

Cherie said:


> The idea that bridle horses ride mostly off of seat and legs is not so. They ride a great deal off of the reins and bit.
> 
> I disagree, a true bridle horse is given a pre-signal through the reins then worked with the legs and the seat. A bridlehorsemen works hard to get it so that the reins are held in one hand and held in front of the saddle horn suspended, the less his hand moves the more trained the horse is looked at being.
> 
> ...


Bridle horses are a real lost art, they are beautiful to watch. I will try and find a youtube clip of a bridle horse working.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I will add that the rein chains, in addition to protecting the reins and romal, serve to balance the spade. Sometimes thereins and romal alone do this, sometimes not. One adds and removes links to get the right balance.

Bridle horses do not all move with a vertical headset. For some horses that is appropriate, for others it is not.

And, I sure don't consider it a lost art. There are common ranch hands riding good bridles horses in their work everyday.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I agree that it is not a lost art. As long as there are people around Like Les Vogt and Bobby Ingersol and the like are around, there will be always be people around to train and teach this art. I think (at least I hope) there will always be trainers, Buckaroos and Vaqueros that use these methods.

And yes, horses are supposed to pick up and carry the bit / bridle. If a horse is in the bridle good and has fully accepted it, you can pull the headstall off of his head and he will still be holding up the bit. You have to kind of 'rattle it around' to get him to drop it. But, if this was always the case, trainers would not pad the top of many bridles during training to keep horses from getting sores on the top of their heads from the heavy bridles. I have seen many trainers that folded up cotton cloths and put them under the headstalls.

And yes, 'slobber chains' are just that -- to protest the precious braided reins from slobber and other damaging moisture, etc. ---But they also add the weight that some horses need and they also help to find the balance point on the bits and romals. The weighted reins with the silver ferules do the same thing.

Have you gone to Les Vogt's website and looked at his bits and reins and accessories?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I've never seen a horse that needed their poll padded because of the weight of the bit! I'm kind of shocked that the rider would continue to use a bit that did that to a horse. I wonder what the point is? Simply liking the silver on the shanks? What could the benefit be?

Do the guys you mention address that? I'm kind of a fly by internet user and am curious about it now.


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## Sheepdog (Sep 25, 2011)

Is there any books that shows and or explains all of these things, especially the tack and correct usage? I've baan looking for a good book on western tack for a while but don't seem to be having much luck. Or are videos better?


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

boots said:


> I've never seen a horse that needed their poll padded because of the weight of the bit! I'm kind of shocked that the rider would continue to use a bit that did that to a horse. I wonder what the point is? Simply liking the silver on the shanks? What could the benefit be?
> 
> Do the guys you mention address that? I'm kind of a fly by internet user and am curious about it now.












(stole image from cowchick)

if you add weight below the mouthpiece, the bit will tilt closer to vertical when suspended from the mouthpiece like this (and while it's held by the horse), and it will apply more pressure to the horse via the spade when it is anything other than vertical.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Sheepdog - "Hackamore Reinsman" by Ed Connell is a good place to start. There are a couple others, I'll get the names after work.

christopher - I'm pretty familiar with spades. I'm not familiar with horses getting sores on their polls from skin breakdown caused by the weight of the bit. And our horses pack theirs 6 to 16 hours in a work day.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

That's because your horses have learned how to carry them.

I think it has mostly been Arabian trainers that I have seen doing this. I am sure it is compounded by the narrow headstalls and the thin skin of most Arabians.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

boots said:


> I've never seen a horse that needed their poll padded because of the weight of the bit! I'm kind of shocked that the rider would continue to use a bit that did that to a horse. I wonder what the point is? Simply liking the silver on the shanks? What could the benefit be?
> 
> Do the guys you mention address that? I'm kind of a fly by internet user and am curious about it now.


I have never seen a horse that needed padding placed above the poll to help a horse when learning to carry the bit.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I've been silently following this topic and would like to add something. 
Since the bridle horse/vaquero style/California style have their origin in Spain and Portugal, with certain adaptions, be it tack or training style, I think this video might interest you all.
You might have heard of or seen it already, but I still think its pretty nice to watch


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

^^^ I like watching those contests. They come closer to anything nearing what a working cow horse needs to be than videos I've watched from the U.S.
Endurance, willingness, and handiness. With those qualities you can get the job done.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh wow! I need to get good at that! That looked like the Lamborghini of the horse world....well I guess it handled that way! Hmmm where to learn that?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I've ridden a couple of bridle horses but they were just of the mediocre level. I don't live in an area where spades and such are very common. The ones I rode didn't handle any better than my own personal horses that have never seen a spade in their lives.

I will say though, that watching a _good_ bridle horse and a good rider is like watching poetry in motion.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Not all, and maybe not many, of them ride in a spade. There's a whole variety of mouthpieces that one can get with the good silver work, as I'm sure y'all know.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

boots said:


> Not all, and maybe not many, of them ride in a spade. There's a whole variety of mouthpieces that one can get with the good silver work, as I'm sure y'all know.


Spade is a classification of bits, it isn't referring to the actual spade on the mouth piece. Like you said there are many different types of mouth pieces that bridle men will consider when choosing a bit. Mona Lisa, San Joaquin, Half Breed, Chileno, and Santa Barbara to name a few...


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

When we discuss spade bits in the northern Rockies, we are referring to the mouthpiece, not the decorations.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

boots said:


> When we discuss spade bits in the northern Rockies, we are referring to the mouthpiece, not the decorations.


I live in the northern rockies... I am not sure what you mean by the decorations. The types of mouth pieces that I referenced in my last post are all examples of different types of mouth pieces on a "spade bit"


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Santa Barbara is a cheek style not a mouthpiece.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Wow guys thanks for this thread. I just did a lot of research on "bridle horses" and learned a lot. I'd never really heard about this before. Awesome!


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

From how I was taught, the spade refers to the actual spade mouthpiece(spoon & braces) regardless of the cheek style. The spade refers to the spade because it is not considered as or to be ridden as a typical leverage style bit, but strickly as a signal bit. Other mouthpeices like the Mona Lisa(which I have not found many horses to like), the Frog, San Joaquin, Half Breed and such can all be ridden like any conventional leverage bit. The Santa Barbara style which you descibed above is a typical cheek style because of the balance it provides for the mouthpiece, not the mouthpiece itself.


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

You can essentially teach any horse to use a bit as a "signal bit" It is the way in which you use the bit to communicate with the horse. A spade bit is not a leverage bit, if it were to be it would be very harsh. I have always been taught that the spade it is a bit classification. But within the classification there are many different designs and styles. I think we are essentially saying the same thing. However not all spade bits have a similar mouth piece, not every spade bit has a spoon and braces.


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