# Competitive trail riding NATRC?



## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I believe I wrote to you about 2 years ago asking about Ona. I am so happy that you were able to get her going. I think my daughter's horse Windy is a lot like your Ona, and that is why I wrote to you. I had a lot of trouble getting Windy to ride solo and I was thinking of you.

I think you should do the leisure rides. The best scenario is if you could find a mentor or a friend to ride along with you. I have an acquaintance who started out riding with a mentor. She completed her first 50 this past spring. I was very proud of her.

My daughter keeps asking me, "Why do you always take MY horse on camping trips and trail rides?" It's because it is such a thrill to bring her along after feeling so anxious on her. Windy is now doing so well, like your Ona. Our horses are kindred spirits.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

We have both CTR (through our regional organization, ECTRA) and endurance (through AERC) where I live. I love that intro rides (I think that's what your leisure rides are called in my area) are becoming more common. I just did one with my mare last weekend. She had the whole winter off and has just been back in slow conditioning for about a month and a half. We did the 10 miles in two hours and 10 minutes, with ~5 minutes at a water stop 6 or so miles in (we were the last ones to finish and took the full time allowed). The rules for ECTRA are a little different and our minimum time is much tighter than what you have for your intro (leisure) rides. I think most horses could do the 10 miles at the pace you mentioned, even with limited conditioning. The ride I was just at had 15 riders in the intro, and probably 3/4 of those riders were doing a distance ride of any kind for the first time. I buddied up with a woman I met through a FB group who trail rides and shows dressage with her mare, but they had never done any kind of endurance event. She had a blast and her mare did great!

The intros are very approachable for someone who is comfortable with trail riding, especially since it sounds like your horse has experience riding in a group. I'm tagging in @QueenofFrance08 because she rides in the midwest region and has been very involved in leading intro rides for people new to distance riding. She might have additional suggestions. At the rides I've done, when you register, you can register as a rookie rider and/or rookie horse, and that way people know you are brand new to it all and generally check in to make sure you're clear on what to do. I've found the rides welcoming to new folks. My biggest complaint is that there are very few mentors in my region, and I am often wishing for someone like Queen of France to be a group mentor on the intro rides. 

I think you should try one out and see how it goes!


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

Is that the ride at Mozingo Lake? I think you should try it. I've only seen pictures of the site. But it doesn't look like it would be a place where a rider can get easily lost. I also thought they were going to have a clinic for riders that wanted to give competitive trail riding a try.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

knightrider said:


> I believe I wrote to you about 2 years ago asking about Ona. I am so happy that you were able to get her going. I think my daughter's horse Windy is a lot like your Ona, and that is why I wrote to you. I had a lot of trouble getting Windy to ride solo and I was thinking of you.
> 
> I think you should do the leisure rides. The best scenario is if you could find a mentor or a friend to ride along with you. I have an acquaintance who started out riding with a mentor. She completed her first 50 this past spring. I was very proud of her.
> 
> ...


Oh my - sorry it took me 2 years to get back with you!! I'm so glad you get what the excitement is like to finally be able to ride solo on Ona! Misty looks beautiful! How old is she? Congratulations on getting her to ride solo - I bet she'll be your best horse! How old is your daughter?


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

egrogan said:


> We have both CTR (through our regional organization, ECTRA) and endurance (through AERC) where I live. I love that intro rides (I think that's what your leisure rides are called in my area) are becoming more common. I just did one with my mare last weekend. She had the whole winter off and has just been back in slow conditioning for about a month and a half. We did the 10 miles in two hours and 10 minutes, with ~5 minutes at a water stop 6 or so miles in (we were the last ones to finish and took the full time allowed). The rules for ECTRA are a little different and our minimum time is much tighter than what you have for your intro (leisure) rides. I think most horses could do the 10 miles at the pace you mentioned, even with limited conditioning. The ride I was just at had 15 riders in the intro, and probably 3/4 of those riders were doing a distance ride of any kind for the first time. I buddied up with a woman I met through a FB group who trail rides and shows dressage with her mare, but they had never done any kind of endurance event. She had a blast and her mare did great!
> 
> The intros are very approachable for someone who is comfortable with trail riding, especially since it sounds like your horse has experience riding in a group. I'm tagging in @QueenofFrance08 because she rides in the midwest region and has been very involved in leading intro rides for people new to distance riding. She might have additional suggestions. At the rides I've done, when you register, you can register as a rookie rider and/or rookie horse, and that way people know you are brand new to it all and generally check in to make sure you're clear on what to do. I've found the rides welcoming to new folks. My biggest complaint is that there are very few mentors in my region, and I am often wishing for someone like Queen of France to be a group mentor on the intro rides.
> 
> I think you should try one out and see how it goes!


Thank you for your response! What area do you live in? I've never heard of ECTRA here in Kansas but maybe I should check. I bet you were a huge comfort/encouragement to the woman you rode with at that ride. I'd love to find somebody at the ride who would be willing to ride with me but wouldn't want to hold anybody back. Of course CTR isn't a race anyway - and everybody will be riding at pretty much the same pace.

I'm excited. I wish I could bring my horse this weekend but I haven't got her coggins yet and I promised myself I'd volunteer first before I rode at one.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

charrorider said:


> Is that the ride at Mozingo Lake? I think you should try it. I've only seen pictures of the site. But it doesn't look like it would be a place where a rider can get easily lost. I also thought they were going to have a clinic for riders that wanted to give competitive trail riding a try.


Yes - it is Mozingo Lake! I'm planning on just volunteering and doing the clinic. Are you in NATRC?


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

@newtrailriders - I live in Vermont. ECTRA covers most of the Northeast.

I definitely know what you mean about not wanting to slow someone down. I've felt the same way. I am always really clear and upfront about the fact that we are slow. I use Equilab on my training rides so I have a pretty realistic sense of how long it takes us to do a specific distance. That said, everyone told me that my horse would get an adrenaline boost and want to go faster at a "real" ride, and I was surprised to find that really was true. She wasn't out of control by any means, but they definitely understand that a competitive ride is different than a "regular" ride, and they are more eager and forward.

Volunteering is a great idea and you will learn a lot. If you have a chance to sign up as a vet scribe, I'd highly recommend it. I learned the most in that volunteer role, though I've done just about everything a ride manager needs 😉 I volunteered for two years before I ever attempted a ride myself. Though that was mostly because I didn't have a truck and trailer and couldn't get my horse to a ride...


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

newtrailriders said:


> Yes - it is Mozingo Lake! I'm planning on just volunteering and doing the clinic. Are you in NATRC?


No, I'm not. But I'm interested in anything that brings horses and riders out on the trail. I do volunteer to take down markers for the annual endurance race that is held in the Mark Twain NF by where I live. Maryville is some distance from me in south central MO.


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## QueenofFrance08 (May 16, 2017)

Hahaha @egrogan, guess what I did yesterday? Led a novice ride!

We don't have NATRC here but like @egrogan our regional organization UMECRA (upper midwest endurance and competitive ride association) governs competitive trail rides. Basically I think most areas have the same basic format with possibly a few different rules but they have a regional organization that runs them. Ours (which I think is different compared to most regions) are run at the same time/place as our endurance/AERC format rides. 

We have a novice division for our competitive rides with distances from 10-15 miles. Ours are a little faster, they generally set the time limits for 5.5-6.5 mph. I rode a 15 mile novice yesterday that we had 2.5 hours to complete. You do have 5 minutes on either side of the time limit that you can come in during and not lose any points. You can take up to an hour after your completion time before you are disqualified as well. 

Honestly (and I didn't believe this before I started) but any healthy horse can usually complete these rides, with little to no conditioning. Now I don't recommend it, especially if you are at a place with a more technical trail (yesterday's ride was very hilly and probably would have been difficult) but I wanted to give you a baseline opinion on conditioning. Your horse, if she can do a couple 4-5 mile rides in a week will be more than fit. 

My gelding's longest ride this Spring was 13 miles (we had a terrible late spring here in MN this year) before he did a 50 mile endurance ride at the first ride. My 25 mile horses usually get ridden 6 miles (that's the longer loop at the park close to us) a couple times a week and keep their fitness really well. 

Volunteering will be a fabulous experience and I highly recommend doing that first but definitely don't be afraid to try the entry level division as well! Ask around and see if you can figure out what the trail conditions are like and pick a ride that has an easier trail for your first ride (if possible) and have a blast! 

(Picture from yesterday's ride, Comet leading the novice. Our group was 2 gaited horses (including him) and 2 quarter horses and everyone did great!)


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

They are all so lucky to have you @QueenofFrance08 !!


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Windy is 10 and my daughter is now 20. I bought Windy for my daughter to train when Windy was weaned off her mother. My daughter, at age 10, was a good rider, but never really had the riding bug like I had when I was a child. She had some interest in obstacle trail challenges, but actually never really longed to ride. I hoped that with an adorable, attentive, genial filly to train, that she would get more involved with riding.

She did a fine job training her filly, with my help. But with college and a serious boyfriend, and the fact that her riding buddies have all gotten married or moved away, she really lost interest in riding. Windy was just too nice of a horse to let her rot in our pasture, and my daughter was too attached to her (and I would be too cruel) to force her to sell her.

So I started riding her and fine tuning her training. All the fine tuning was going fabulously, but not the solo riding . . . which was partly my fault. When Windy was about 4, I thought it was time she learned to ride solo. I didn't want my 14 year old daughter possibly having trouble with the first solo ride, so I decided to start her myself. I took her out, expecting the whole thing to go quite smoothly. Actually, that was our downfall.

Windy did not do a smooth running walk in those days. She had about 6 gaits, and most of them were rough and unpleasant. I kept telling my daughter not to worry because Windy's mother, Princess, did not have a nice running walk until she turned 6. Then suddenly a light bulb went off, and Princess started giving us a fabulous running walk.

So . . . I took Windy out for her first solo ride, and everything was going fine, as I expected it would. After about an hour, I turned Windy for home. She asked to do running walk, and I said "Fine. Go for it." She launched into the most glorious smooth fabulous running walk you can imagine. It was a dream come true. After a bit, I brought her down to a dog walk, grinning from ear to ear. This mare can WALK!

Then, a bit later, she wanted to do more. And it was equally fabulous. Then again. And again. Before I knew it, we were a mile from home, and Windy needed to dog walk quietly the last mile in. She was having none of that. She exploded into bucking, then reared high, then bolted, then reared again, another bolt, bucking, rearing. She was so active that I never felt I could jump off her (I certainly would have if I could have!). That was the most scared I have ever been on a ride--continuous bucking, bolting, or rearing for a whole mile, and I simply couldn't get her slowed enough to leap off her.

When we got to our gate, I was able to dismount. Then I took her into our horses' sacrifice pen and rode her for 45 minutes. She was perfectly fine. Then I woke my daughter and made her saddle her tried-and-true pony and ride with me out on the trail for 45 minutes. Then I rode her again in the sacrifice pen for 30 more minutes. I wanted to be sure that she never equated that bucking-bolting-rearing with getting out of work.

My daughter never wants to ride solo, so there were no more practices. You can be sure --I--wasn't about to put myself through that again any time soon! Windy was fine riding with her friends, and my daughter was fine with that too.

But as time went on, and Windy continued to improve, I knew that huge hole in her training was very "not good." Windy was about 8 when I decided that, scared of riding her solo or not, she was going to have to learn to ride solo. I started out riding her solo in the summer, when she is least reactive. Those rides went pretty OK. I was the one mostly riding her at this point, and she knew me and I knew her. 

But when the weather turned cold, Windy got difficult again. I just get scared when she starts acting up, even though if my other horses did what she does, it wouldn't bother me. I kind of set that training on the back burner until the weather turned warm again. Our cold weather only lasts a little more than 2 months, so it is not a big sacrifice.

Last summer, Windy was really really doing great riding solo, and I thought we were DONE! Yay! Until last winter, when she started with the hopping and bopping, and almost broke my nose on several rides by hurling herself and her head upwards. All that old fear comes crashing back when she does these things.

Horse Forum helped me A LOT. Thank you a million times, @egrogan. People on Horse Forum reminded me there is no shame in getting off. When I'd get scared, I'd just get off. @gottatrot and @SteadyOn reminded me that horses do fine just being taken out and grazed. They can learn to go out by themselves from that baby step. I started walking Windy several times a week, letting her graze. She reminded me on those walks that riding her would be extremely exciting, as she did lots of leaping about and dancing around instead of grazing. She kept me from longing to ride her, all right.

But now it is summer again, and Windy is doing fine riding solo, the best yet. I expect when the weather turns cold, it won't be as idyllic, but now I have a plan of action in case it isn't all right.

I don't think she'll ever be my best horse ever because I have a couple of those already. I can't imagine any horse doing better than Acicate, and I can't imagine loving any horse more than Chorro. And Isabeau will always own a huge piece of my heart because I put so much of my heart into her, and she gave it back to me in spades.

Thank you for your response. I have often OFTEN thought of you and Ona and I am so glad to hear back from you. It is sad to lose Horse Forum members that we come to care about. They just drop off and we never know . . . and always wonder . . . what happened to them.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

egrogan said:


> @newtrailriders - I live in Vermont. ECTRA covers most of the Northeast.
> 
> I definitely know what you mean about not wanting to slow someone down. I've felt the same way. I am always really clear and upfront about the fact that we are slow. I use Equilab on my training rides so I have a pretty realistic sense of how long it takes us to do a specific distance. That said, everyone told me that my horse would get an adrenaline boost and want to go faster at a "real" ride, and I was surprised to find that really was true. She wasn't out of control by any means, but they definitely understand that a competitive ride is different than a "regular" ride, and they are more eager and forward.
> 
> Volunteering is a great idea and you will learn a lot. If you have a chance to sign up as a vet scribe, I'd highly recommend it. I learned the most in that volunteer role, though I've done just about everything a ride manager needs 😉 I volunteered for two years before I ever attempted a ride myself. Though that was mostly because I didn't have a truck and trailer and couldn't get my horse to a ride...


I can see her deciding to go faster at a CTR - she gets pretty enthusiastic riding in a group. I've only cantered a few steps on her, ever, so I'm looking forward to doing that! Hopefully people will mostly just trot though!

Is Equilab an app?


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

QueenofFrance08 said:


> Hahaha @egrogan, guess what I did yesterday? Led a novice ride!
> 
> We don't have NATRC here but like @egrogan our regional organization UMECRA (upper midwest endurance and competitive ride association) governs competitive trail rides. Basically I think most areas have the same basic format with possibly a few different rules but they have a regional organization that runs them. Ours (which I think is different compared to most regions) are run at the same time/place as our endurance/AERC format rides.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! Your words are VERY encouraging because I do think I can do two rides a week on Ona. Comet is GORGEOUS by the way!


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

knightrider said:


> Windy is 10 and my daughter is now 20. I bought Windy for my daughter to train when Windy was weaned off her mother. My daughter, at age 10, was a good rider, but never really had the riding bug like I had when I was a child. She had some interest in obstacle trail challenges, but actually never really longed to ride. I hoped that with an adorable, attentive, genial filly to train, that she would get more involved with riding.
> 
> She did a fine job training her filly, with my help. But with college and a serious boyfriend, and the fact that her riding buddies have all gotten married or moved away, she really lost interest in riding. Windy was just too nice of a horse to let her rot in our pasture, and my daughter was too attached to her (and I would be too cruel) to force her to sell her.
> 
> ...


Wow - Windy and Ona ARE kindred spirits! I could see Ona doing exactly that sort of thing if I tried to ride her out from home. Even now! I've never let her get that worked up when I was on her - that would scare the bloody crap out of me!! I'm positive I would have fallen off! How the heck did you stay on?? There is no way on earth I could have got back on her after that! I would have been crying and probably would have wet my pants! 

Since Ona has started acting better, everybody has been telling me that age 10 is a magic age when they just kind of flip a switch and start behaving themselves. I do think the heat has something to do with it though. I've wondered if she will behave as well when it gets cooler out and she won't have to get drenched with sweat if she tries to argue with me! I'm hoping that if I keep riding her all summer, by the time fall rolls around she might just stay broke? 

I've always been told that if I get off when I'm scared it will teach her to scare me? That hasn't happened with Windy? What's your plan of action if she starts acting up again later - going back to grazing and getting off when you're scared?

I saddled her up Saturday and I was going to try to ride her out from home but she's SUCH a brat at home. She's nowhere near as bad as she used to be - but I'm sure she still has it in her if I try to push her too hard near home!! I decided to just lead her away from the house before trying to ride her, to see how she'd do.

She has a different attitude than before - I was able to lead her about a quarter mile down the road before she started getting prancy, and even when she got prancy she was more gentle about it than she used to be. So I decided to walk her back into her comfort zone and lunge her and then try again to go forward...two problems happened with that. 1) I stink at lunging LOL! I forgot to bring a whip and so I was trying to do it spinning the end of the lunge line and I was just confusing her and making my arm tired and getting dizzy and out of breath! 2) She was too sweet! She was looking at me like "Just tell me what to do, Ma, and I'll do it - but why are you making me do this?"

It really makes me feel good that you've been thinking of me! Thank you!! I've thought of you a lot too! I thought about coming back on just to chat but I kind of felt like a loser. I guess when life gets in the way of being active and doing horsey things, I get depressed and down on myself and kind of feel ashamed. I was so excited when I got what I thought was a great new job about 4 years ago. I thought I'd have time to ride but noooooo - they worked me like a rented mule and I couldn't ride and got depressed, gained weight again. I rode so rarely, and couldn't even really go out and spend time with the horses. My husband was feeding and watering them. I'd get them shod and we'd get to go on like one ride before it was time to shoe them again. I was thinking I ought to just rehome the horses and I was so down about it. I used to have a Tevis poster hung up in my old office for motivation but I took it down when I realized even riding on the weekends was asking too much. I totally gave up on my dream.

Then in October 2021 I got this new position I'm in now - it was a big promotion and I've now confirmed what I always suspected was true. When you get to a certain level of management you DO get off work on time and get to actually use your vacation time! Suddenly a few weeks ago I remembered I still have horses! 

Anyway - enough of me! What's going on with you? Are you doing anything with your other horses right now? What's your daughter majoring in?


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

My daughter is majoring in psychology. I ride my other horses every morning too. I get mixed up about who is supposed to be ridden next, so I do something typical of the school librarian I used to be: I ride them in alphabetical order. Then I know who I am supposed to ride the next day because I always remember who I rode yesterday. I also have 3 sets of beginners who come out to ride with me, and they keep the others exercised. I was always afraid of letting anyone ride Windy because of my bad experiences with her. But last week, I let a brave beginner ride Windy, and she did fine. I think now Windy can be trusted with beginners as well (at least in the summer when riding with her herdmates).



newtrailriders said:


> I've always been told that if I get off when I'm scared it will teach her to scare me? That hasn't happened with Windy? What's your plan of action if she starts acting up again later - going back to grazing and getting off when you're scared?


This is what I was told since I was a teenager in 4-H--that if you dismount and lead your horse, it will learn to act up and cause you to dismount even more. @egrogan taught me that is simply not true. And after doing it, I believe it does not cause your horse to misbehave more. I think it causes you to be able to feel safe when you might not have felt safe. I have not experienced any worse behavior from dismounting when things are going badly.

My plan is to do exactly what you said . . . if it happens next winter. If I don't feel comfortable riding her, then I will take her for walks. They were somewhat hairy walks last winter--a lot of jumping around and silliness--but I am hoping this coming winter will be better. The more I ride Windy, the more I am building trust with her. She isn't really that bad anymore. It is me who suddenly rachets up the fear when she starts her shenanigans. Fear is such an insidious thing--it creeps up on you when you don't expect it. It's suddenly just THERE . . . and awful. Such a great feeling to know, "I can just get off. I don't need to ride it out. It won't damage my horse's training. It won't hurt anything." So far, it hasn't set back Windy's training at all. If anything, it has helped me.



newtrailriders said:


> How the heck did you stay on?? There is no way on earth I could have got back on her after that! I would have been crying and probably would have wet my pants!


I started riding at age 8. I got my first horse at age 12 and started breaking colts for people at age 12. I started about 4 colts from age 12 to 14. Then I started buying unbroken or green broke colts from 14 on. I probably have started 12 colts in my life, which isn't a lot of colts, but enough to feel pretty secure about riding. Also, I showed hunter/jumper for 20 years and then did theatrical jousting and stunt riding for 17 years, so I've done a lot of crazy stuff and stayed on pretty much more than I came off . . . although I certainly did a lot of coming off over the years. Just a lot of years of a lot of riding.

With Windy that awful scary day, I was just so mad, I wasn't about to let her get the better of me. That brat! I bought her because she was so sane and quiet and good minded. I was furious with her. But still, that insidious fear took hold. It has a way of working into your mind.


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## QueenofFrance08 (May 16, 2017)

I know when I lead novice rides I try not to canter too much or at least ask everyone if they're interested in it before I do. I know when I first started I was pretty nervous about cantering so I try to keep it to walk/trot for the most park with maybe a short canter stretch on a nice part of the trail unless I know the people I'm riding with (usually in that case they are much more accomplished riders than I am!). 

This weekend we kept it to walk trot because I had a lady on a greenish 5 year old who was a little nervous so I didn't want to push anything (although Comet LOVES cantering so we had a few negotiations on speed to attempt to keep the ride to a trot)


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

knightrider said:


> My daughter is majoring in psychology. I ride my other horses every morning too. I get mixed up about who is supposed to be ridden next, so I do something typical of the school librarian I used to be: I ride them in alphabetical order. Then I know who I am supposed to ride the next day because I always remember who I rode yesterday. I also have 3 sets of beginners who come out to ride with me, and they keep the others exercised. I was always afraid of letting anyone ride Windy because of my bad experiences with her. But last week, I let a brave beginner ride Windy, and she did fine. I think now Windy can be trusted with beginners as well (at least in the summer when riding with her herdmates).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A psychology degree will open a lot of doors for her! I bet she could make a killing counseling riders who are afraid to ride again due to injuries (or those who aren't afraid and maybe should be) LOL

I'm very very relieved to know I can get off Ona if I start feeling nervous!!

You have a lot of riding experience  Theatrical jousting and stunt riding sounds awesome! You should post some videos! I don't feel so bad about getting scared occasionally if you get scared!


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

QueenofFrance08 said:


> I know when I lead novice rides I try not to canter too much or at least ask everyone if they're interested in it before I do. I know when I first started I was pretty nervous about cantering so I try to keep it to walk/trot for the most park with maybe a short canter stretch on a nice part of the trail unless I know the people I'm riding with (usually in that case they are much more accomplished riders than I am!).
> 
> This weekend we kept it to walk trot because I had a lady on a greenish 5 year old who was a little nervous so I didn't want to push anything (although Comet LOVES cantering so we had a few negotiations on speed to attempt to keep the ride to a trot)


CTR will be a great way to learn to get comfortable with cantering. Especially toward the end of the ride, when we're warmed up and nice and calm.

I know I'm not supposed to do it but sometimes I do let the horses canter up hills. Not Ona but the boys.


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