# IMO......Critiquing



## PintoTess

What is the point of this?


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## Cowgirls Boots

Uhm whaaaat?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper

PintoTess said:


> What is the point of this?


No horse will do well at halter not being fit.


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## PintoTess

So? Why post this? Just like saying my horse wont do well at dressage because she is a pony.


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## Ripper

PintoTess said:


> So? Why post this? Just like saying my horse wont do well at dressage because she is a pony.


Not at all.

A pony will never be a horse.

Any horse will look better being fit.


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## BubblesBlue

So you're saying that people shouldn't ask for critique on their halter horses unless they are in good shape? -confused-

I find that a little unfair because sometimes some horses may be in the best shape of their lives but still have a belly.
Like my horse Ruester for example. He has amazing conformation and has won a few halter classes, even though he has a short back so his belly always hangs down.


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## BarrelracingArabian

Unless they are planning on doing breed shows or big shows in general i see no problem with it. Not to mention generally they are asking before the horse is actually doing the showing which is perfectly fine. My boy os in great shape but he still looks tubby not all horses slim up like halter bred and raised show horses no matter what you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## katbalu

For the record, I was mainly asking about conformation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper

BarrelracingArabian said:


> Unless they are planning on doing breed shows or big shows in general i see no problem with it. Not to mention generally they are asking before the horse is actually doing the showing which is perfectly fine. My boy os in great shape but he still looks tubby not all horses slim up like halter bred and raised show horses no matter what you do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure they will.

Any horse can be made to look better as long as they can do the work.


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## Ripper

katbalu said:


> For the record, I was mainly asking about conformation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are taking something personal that was a general statement.

And again JMO.


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## myhorsesonador

OP why are you always so rude? I don't think I've ever seen you not post some thing rude. I mean, whats the point? You might as well have called this thread "you're all idiots" because that's basicly what you just said.


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## Ripper

myhorsesonador said:


> OP why are you always so rude? I don't think I've ever seen you not post some thing rude. I mean, whats the point? You might as well have called this thread "you're all idiots" because that's basicly what you just said.


Nope....

I said halter horses have to be fit.


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## katbalu

Ripper said:


> You are taking something personal that was a general statement.
> 
> And again JMO.


No, I was clarifying. I'm not offended
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BarrelracingArabian

No not all horses are the same and not all will look the same. Yes they can ve made to look better but that doesnt mean super slimmed and muscled out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BubblesBlue

SInce when was that a rule?

Please, show me a rule in a halter show book that says that.


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## Ripper

BubblesBlue said:


> SInce when was that a rule?
> 
> Please, show me a rule book in a halter show book that says that.


LOL.....

It is posted on the gate on your way out.


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## Ripper

katbalu said:


> No, I was clarifying. I'm not offended
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good to know.


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## BubblesBlue

I want evidence then. Show me.

I see horses in local halter shows and I've been to them myself, preformed in them. I've never seen a d*mn paper which you claim is on the gate.


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## Ripper

BarrelracingArabian said:


> No not all horses are the same and not all will look the same. Yes they can ve made to look better but that doesnt mean super slimmed and muscled out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then we agree....

Take your best shot.

Be ready.


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## Ripper

BubblesBlue said:


> I want evidence then. Show me.
> 
> I see horses in local halter shows and I've been to them myself, preformed in them. I've never seen a d*mn paper which you claim is on the gate.


:lol::lol::lol:

I think you get my point.


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## arrowsaway

Ripper said:


> LOL.....
> 
> It is posted on the gate on your way out.



Wow. Um. What the hell?
You posted this thread for the sole purpose of attempting to make yourself look good, while putting others down. It's not educational, it's not enlightening, and your post is being reported.


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## nrhareiner

If you are going to show a horse at halter and you want to do well your horse better be fit. It is just that simple even at local shows. 

If you are going to post a horse an ask how it will do at halter the only real way to know is to first fit the horse. Not all horses will fit up in a way that will make them good for halter. Ex. I do not care how much I work my ZFH mare or how much I feed her she will never look like a halter horse or do well at halter even though she has impeckable conformation. She is just not built in such a way to carry a lot of buck. However I have anouther mare that I could easily put a lot of bulk on her and fit her to do well at halter. The ZFH mare has better conformation but the other mare would still do better at halter if she was fit for it.


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## Ripper

arrowsaway said:


> Wow. Um. What the hell?
> You posted this thread for the sole purpose of attempting to make yourself look good, while putting others down. It's not educational, it's not enlightening, but your post is being reported.


And how is that???

Do you think unfit horses will do well in halter???

I was just talking about posters than said they wanted to know for the purpose of showing in halter.


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## smrobs

I guess I must be the only one to think it is really sad and pathetic that a halter horse is judged on how much bulk can be packed onto them instead of their actual conformation.


But, then again, I guess if "fit is the name of the game in halter" that explains a lot. :?


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## nrhareiner

BubblesBlue said:


> So you're saying that people shouldn't ask for critique on their halter horses unless they are in good shape? -confused-
> 
> *It would be very hard to know and judge how a horse would do at halter if the horse is not fit. Not all horses will fit up the same way and not all horses will have the bulk needed to do well in halter.*
> 
> I find that a little unfair because sometimes some horses may be in the best shape of their lives but still have a belly.
> Like my horse Ruester for example. He has amazing conformation and has won a few halter classes, even though he has a short back so his belly always hangs down.


Then he is not halter fit. It is like saying a runner who is in great shap should be able to do well in a body building show. Not going to happen and most likely no matter how much the runner wants to add that muscle they will never be able to do it. They are just not build like that.


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## arrowsaway

...You are deliberately trying to anger people on here, and that's not keeping with the ideals of this forum. So what if other peoples' horses aren't fit? How is that any of your business? Those who are so critical of others may often find fault within themselves.



Additionally, I suspect your ideal halter horse looks like a beef bull walking on toothpicks. I'll pass. Thanks anyway.


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## Ripper

smrobs said:


> I guess I must be the only one to think it is really sad and pathetic that a halter horse is judged on how much bulk can be packed onto them instead of their actual conformation.
> 
> 
> But, then again, I guess if "fit is the name of the game in halter" that explains a lot. :?


Have you ever seen a 200 pound Miss America???


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## BubblesBlue

Ripper said:


> Have you ever seen a 200 pound Miss America???


Have you seen an Anorexic horse? :-|


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## Ripper

arrowsaway said:


> ...You are deliberately trying to anger people on here, and that's not keeping with the ideals of this forum. So what if other peoples' horses aren't fit? How is that any of your business? Those who are so critical of others may often find fault within themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Additionally, I suspect your ideal halter horse looks like a beef bull walking on toothpicks. I'll pass. Thanks anyway.


No.

You are just angered.

Again...posters ask how their horse will do at halter.


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## katbalu

nrhareiner said:


> If you are going to show a horse at halter and you want to do well your horse better be fit. It is just that simple even at local shows.
> 
> If you are going to post a horse an ask how it will do at halter the only real way to know is to first fit the horse. Not all horses will fit up in a way that will make them good for halter. Ex. I do not care how much I work my ZFH mare or how much I feed her she will never look like a halter horse or do well at halter even though she has impeckable conformation. She is just not built in such a way to carry a lot of buck. However I have anouther mare that I could easily put a lot of bulk on her and fit her to do well at halter. The ZFH mare has better conformation but the other mare would still do better at halter if she was fit for it.


Good info & things to consider. Thx
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper

BubblesBlue said:


> Have you seen an Anorexic horse? :-|


Not wining at halter.


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## themacpack

Baiting is not really attractive.
That being said, I do agree that if someone posts asking about a horse's fitness for any particular thing, that assessment needs to be based on that particular perspective. However, I think that the level of showing needs to be considered as well -- offering an "honest" assessment of a horse's fitness for a high-level breed show when the poster is looking to show their horse at the county 4-H level is not really fitting. 
At the end of the day, OP, if/when you come across a post where someone is asking for a critique of their horse's fitness for halter, give your assessment *shrugs* I don't really understand the need to create a thread specifically to air your issues with this whole thing when you could simply do exactly that.


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## smrobs

Ripper said:


> Have you ever seen a 200 pound Miss America???


:rofl: OMG. Yep, you're totally right.


However, last time I checked, Miss America didn't look like this either.....


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## arrowsaway

Okay. It's a long way down from that high horse of yours. Better wear a helmet.


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## Ripper

arrowsaway said:


> Okay. It's a long way down from that high horse of yours. Better wear a helmet.


Why the personal attack???


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## Dressage10135

So sorry Ripper that none of us have horses that are beefed up/waddling enough for your taste. However, no one is begging you to critique their horses. Especially if you are snide and condescending about it.


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## Ripper

themacpack said:


> Baiting is not really attractive.
> That being said, I do agree that if someone posts asking about a horse's fitness for any particular thing, that assessment needs to be based on that particular perspective. However, I think that the level of showing needs to be considered as well -- offering an "honest" assessment of a horse's fitness for a high-level breed show when the poster is looking to show their horse at the county 4-H level is not really fitting.
> At the end of the day, OP, if/when you come across a post where someone is asking for a critique of their horse's fitness for halter, give your assessment *shrugs* I don't really understand the need to create a thread specifically to air your issues with this whole thing when you could simply do exactly that.


That is just it.....

I am not seeing fitness considered.


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## katbalu

Well, I posted a horse that wasn't really fit. I know he's not. But I wanted to know if his conformation was too off for halter. But like Nrhareiner said, I probably have to get him fit before I could get a fair answer. Something I didn't consider, but now I will. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper

Dressage10135 said:


> So sorry Ripper that none of us have horses that are beefed up/waddling enough for your taste. However, no one is begging you to critique their horses. Especially if you are snide and condescending about it.


Where have I posted anything about any one horse???


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## soenjer55

I always thought halter was to judge the horse, not how much muscle is packed on his ill-conformed body... first comes conformation, then fitness. A badly conformed horse shouldn't win anything just because of his muscle mass. Just my opinion.


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## Ripper

katbalu said:


> Well, I posted a horse that wasn't really fit. I know he's not. But I wanted to know if his conformation was too off for halter. But like Nrhareiner said, I probably have to get him fit before I could get a fair answer. Something I didn't consider, but now I will.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can tell you your horse has a better than average profile.


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## Dressage10135

Ripper said:


> Where have I posted anything about any one horse???


Umm.. when you made this thread based on the fact that you "Have not seen one fit horse". 

Your words, not mine.


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## Ripper

soenjer55 said:


> I always thought halter was to judge the horse, not how much muscle is packed on his ill-conformed body... first comes conformation, then fitness. A badly conformed horse shouldn't win anything just because of his muscle mass. Just my opinion.


What horse and show did you have in mind??


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## nrhareiner

smrobs said:


> I guess I must be the only one to think it is really sad and pathetic that a halter horse is judged on how much bulk can be packed onto them instead of their actual conformation.
> 
> 
> But, then again, I guess if "fit is the name of the game in halter" that explains a lot. :?


 
It would be the equivalent of a body builder in humans. This is why you now see performance halter. However the horse still needs to be fit in that too.


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## Ripper

Dressage10135 said:


> Umm.. when you made this thread based on the fact that you "Have not seen one fit horse".
> 
> Your words, not mine.


OK....link me to a fit horse.


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## TimberRidgeRanch

Why I dislike alot of halter horses This is NOT natural and to me screams STEROIDS YUKKKK JMNO


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## themacpack

Fit for what/and in who's opinion, Ripper? Are you asking for halter specific or fit in general - because the two are VERY different....


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## katbalu

Wait, what exactly s performance halter?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BubblesBlue

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> *Why I dislike alot of halter horses This is NOT natural and to me screams STEROIDS YUKKKK JMNO*


I just want to point out that this is a heavily photoshopped image.


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## themacpack

Exactly -TRR - as much as some would insist that what you posted is the epitome of a fit horse, I see a horse that is unnaturally bulked to the point of possible UNhealhtiness......


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## Ripper

themacpack said:


> Fit for what/and in who's opinion, Ripper? Are you asking for halter specific or fit in general - because the two are VERY different....


Fit to show at halter.

That is the question many posters ask.

How would my horses do at showing halter???


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## katbalu

Ripper said:


> I can tell you your horse has a better than average profile.


See, fit I can work on. I just wanted to know if people would say ' what's that girl doing with that unproportioned butt in the ring where conformation is judged?!'. 
I mean the horses butt...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soenjer55

Ripper said:


> What horse and show did you have in mind??


Every show and every horse. fitness is important, I definitely agree with you- your horse should look his best if you want to show him, that's a given- but it doesn't make up for bad conformation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but halter is meant to judge the horse himself, right? Not his performance over fences, or how well he follows a cow, just the horse. And as for it being better to have more beef packed on, why would you pack all that muscle on a horse with conformation that is too weak to hold it? I've never been a fan of halter, because of this 'muscle before conformation' idea that seems to prevail...


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## nrhareiner

katbalu said:


> Wait, what exactly s performance halter?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Performance halter is an AQHA class that to be able to show in the horse MUST have a performance ROM.


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## TimberRidgeRanch

Okay heres the real deal This is NOT photochopped He is the real deal on what some concider IDEAL to me is gross and un natural This horse carries the HYPP gene


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## katbalu

nrhareiner said:


> Performance halter is an AQHA class that to be able to show in the horse MUST have a performance ROM.


Aha. Thanks (should have been obvious)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reiningfan

When the question is "How will my horse do in halter classes", then yes, fit is a big deal. You take two horses, both conformed pretty similarly, put them in a class together, the fit one is going to do better. It's just the way it works, whether at small shows or not.
If you ask about the horse's conformation, then fit really isn't put into play, because that doesn't change with fitness, although you can enhance and hide certain aspects.


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## MicKey73

Ok, I know I'm feeding a troll here, but OP what's your position about asking for critiques for jumpers, or eventers, or other English disciplines when people have just gotten a horse, or are looking to buy one? By that I mean... do they need to buy, train (or pay a trainer), etc before they have the right to ask for a critique? Wouldn't they already know at that point? Same as a fit halter horse. if someone buys a halter horse that's all fit, why wouldn't they just take the horse to a show and get the judge's opinion, rather than a bunch of shmoe's (myself included) opinions??


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## katbalu

See, I thought halter classes were mainly about conformation. Fit yes, but mainly conformation
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themacpack

katbalu said:


> See, I thought halter classes were mainly about conformation. Fit yes, but mainly conformation
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What level are you talking about showing at?


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## katbalu

Itty bitty local. Just to get both of us experiencing new things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themacpack

Then you don't need to worry about developing a grotesque physique like Ripper is so hung up on ;-)


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## katbalu

Nah I couldn't look at my horse without laughing if he looked like that. I'd hear Arnold schwartzanegger Every time. I want to PUMP YOU UP!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soenjer55

themacpack said:


> Then you don't need to worry about developing a grotesque physique like Ripper is so hung up on ;-)


I don't recall Ripper ever referring to that horse posted as ideally fit... Just that halter horses needed to be fit with muscle....


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## Cat

I guess I always assume when people are asking for critiques its for the conformation and possibly the potential towards a certain discipline. I mean - why fit up for halter class if the horse had a glaring flaw that is going to keep it from placing at all no matter how fit? Better to be aware of that before you spend the time feeding and fitting up a halter horse rather than after. And a conformation critique on the forum may point out a few flaws you weren't aware of.

I would think if one has a good eye for conformation they could critique a horse for potential and be relatively accurate without needing to see the horse 100% fit. Yes - fitness will have an impact on the final judging but come on - you can still see cow hocking, pigeon toes, calf knees, etc on an unfit horse. You should still be able to judge possible potential.


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## SorrelHorse

I'll enter a halter class with my awful looking giraffe necked awkward older gelding just so he can get in the arena and see it before we have to perform in there later. Rebel's conformation sucks, any halter judge would probably throw up if they saw him. Is that my problem? No. I paid my money to get in that arena with the class. Hell, even if they wanted to excuse me I'd still have gotten what I wanted. There's no rule against that.

And I'd just like to say, Jesters Cowboy was the stud horse on our farm. Jester Smoke (Mr. Gunsmoke) out of Chicks Dynamo Lady. He is 13.3hh. He went into halter classes with disgusting looking beefed up walls of muscle. He almost always came out on top. He performed at the APHA World as well as local. He came out and could run a barrel race and win. He could cut and work cattle. He could smoke a reining pattern and throw hard slides into the ground. He could pack around kids.

This is what a halter horse should be:










Not whatever this mess is...










If someone wants to find a forum rule that says "You can't post for conformation critique unless you have a world show quality halter horse", then be my guest. Not everyone who puts up a confo critique thread wants halter. I put one up for Ruger, not because I actually care, but just for kicks. I mean, why not? I'm never going to show him in halter. He's a fantastic horse with a phenomenal amount of heart and talent that trumps any and all the conformation flaws he has. There are people who can't believe he's only three years old the way he works. Same with Selena. She's a nice horse but she's not flawless. So many people who post confo threads are just curious.

OP, Please link me to one of these threads that sparked this massive generalization you have made.


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## katbalu

Oh pick me! I am so highly entertained by all of this!
not being mean either! i love so many different opinions


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## katbalu

Be a shame to waste all these people looking at this thread... Hey everyone go critique my horse on my thread! ( he's not fit, I understand)


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## soenjer55

Post a link to the thread


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## PintoTess

This thread should just be closed. It is rediculous, unecessary and immature. Its not getting anywhere.


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## Kayella

I'd love to believe that halter is all about conformation because it should be, but I know it's not. It's about pumped up horses that have a shorter life doing nothing but eating and being worked. I will be showing my weanling in halter, but not to win. I am doing it for early show experience, at smaller shows. Heck yeah I'm gonna present him fit and appealing, but he will be naturally fit. No running a four month old foal into the ground, no neck sweats, no jowl straps. He will be naturally fit, which he can exhaust himself by playing for ten minutes so there's no doubt he's going to be fit. It's a matter of fit vs. unnatural.


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## Oxer

waaaaait don't shut down this thread! i have a question!! 
TimberRidge is that really a REAL horse? Seriously? How do they get the horse like that? how can you judge a horse like that? I don't understand!


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## myhorsesonador

Oxer said:


> waaaaait don't shut down this thread! i have a question!!
> TimberRidge is that really a REAL horse? Seriously? How do they get the horse like that? how can you judge a horse like that? I don't understand!


yes they are real. They get that way, through breeding and the way they raise them.


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## Oxer

oh my... 

someone needs to tell them that they have a hippo masquerading around their paddock as a horse!


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## Gremmy

I'm a little confused about this thread. I am going to hope that the OP is only directed at threads where it was specified that the horse would be shown in halter. If that's the case, carry on  otherwise, this is a conformation critique board, _not_ a halter critique board. The two are different.

Ripper, you and I seem to agree on the value on a well put together horse. However I am not sure we agree on what defines such a thing. Conformation has always interested me and I enjoy honing my skills on boards like this to better train my 'eye' for a horse's build. Yet I have a personal dislike for the halter discipline. As the title of this thread beings with "IMO", mine is that the halter discipline and equine conformation have little in common (a generalized and unfair judgement I'm sure, apologies to any halter folks on here). 

The definition of 'fit' depends on far more than what you're used to Ripper. Halter fit applies to halter horses, it does not mean that all horses that do not fit that standard are unfit. I for one have no problem critiquing an "unfit" horse - muscle can only build around the existing structure, and that is what I am looking at.


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## AlexS

Ah I see our error, we should all privately message Ripper to see if our horses are suitable for critique before posting a thread about it. 

Silly us, our mistake!


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## DrumRunner

Um, wow...Ripper, you must have too much time on your hands or something? What exactly is the point of this thread besides shaking up the bee hive and then poking it with a stick? 

I forgot, you seem much more knowledgeable when you post your sentences like this. 

Please, forgive me. 

I personally think the big bad halter horses are disgusting looking. That is in no way "fit" that is as UNhealthy as a fat horse or a skinny horse. Sorry but that just doesn't work for me, I would much rather have a "normal" looking halter horse than something that looks like the thing posted above..There is a huge different in a fit horse and a rhino..

There may not be a 200lb Miss America but I'd rather see a Miss America that doesn't look like she eats as much as a bird...Smrobs, that girl is seexxxy..So fit and in shape..*gags*

I guess I'll have to tell all of my horses they aren't fit..Darn..That's really going to hurt their feelings.


Popcorn anyone??


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## DraftyAiresMum

What I find interesting is that fit for English halter and fit for western halter have turned into two completely different things. Western halter has become about who has the most muscle, while English halter still looks at the conformation of the horse. 

So, Ripper, just out of curiosity...if I posted a confo pic of my boy on here and asked how people thought he'd do in ENGLISH halter classes, would you respond that he isn't "fit," so he'd do poorly? Even when he looked like this last summer as a two-year-old who was getting lunged three or four times a week and going on trail walks maybe twice a week?









What about this little guy's horse? Not asking for a critique, just wondering if you think he's "fit" enough for halter?








For what it's worth, this little guy and his gelding completely SWEPT the halter classes at our local show.

Also, since apparently no one's horses that you've seen here are "fit enough" for halter, can you show us a genuine picture of a horse that you consider decently fit for halter? And I'm not talking the "hippos masquerading as horses," as Oxer so aptly put it.


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## AlexS

It's all so subjective and pointless. The beefed up halter horses are about a million miles away from what I would consider fit, as I can't imagine them lugging that bulk around to do anything useful for very long. This is what I consider fit.


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## PintoTess

^^ I second that!


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## DrumRunner

This is fit to me, Hickory (far right) is a little fat in this picture but the girls are in very good shape.


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## reiningfan

People get so dramatic on this board. So your idea of what makes a good horse is different from Ripper's, why get all up in the air over it? She likes halter horses and makes no bones about it. The halter horses of her day were still well conformed horses who could go out and do other things. They were fit, but not beef cows like we see these days. Take a chill pill.


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## Gremmy

For me 'fit' depends on what the horse is doing. Some examples:

Good ol' Hickstead, fit as can be for showjumping.
http://www.startinggate.ca/img/news/Eric%20Lamaze/Hickstead%20by%20Dirk%20Caremans.jpg

Zenyatta, racing fit
http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID43823/images/Zenyatta-VanityHandicap2.jpg

Smart Chic Olena, NRHA hall of fame
SMART CHIC OLENA

Impressive, influential Halter sire (and as we all know the root of the genetic disease HYPP)
http://www.colourvranch.com/images/impressive.jpg

and some current halter studs from this past year's AQHA world championship (excuse me if I don't get the titles right, I don't tend to follow halter), for good measure:

World champion open 3 year old stallion
http://www.mistyacresranch.com/ptmastarkid-2011profile-web.jpg

World champion open aged stallion
http://www.kidscoolkid.com/p7lsm_img_1/fullsize/kid1_fs.jpg

World champion performance halter stallion
http://www.equinechronicle.com/wp-content/plugins/fresh-page/thirdparty/phpthumb/phpThumb.php?w=419&src=/home/equinech/public_html/wp-content/files_flutter/1321115948jason.jpg

All horses at the top of their disciplines, all at the top level of fitness for said discipline, all very different.

Reiningfan, I can see your point, however we're dealing with a touchy subject and various interpretations of a fairly vague OP. I get my hackles up because the impression I get is that a halter fit horse is what all horses should look like, and anything below that isn't worth looking at or commenting on. I and those who are in the same boat are compelled to disagree with the OP. Loudly. :lol:


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## Speed Racer

Except for a very FEW threads, I haven't seen 'everybody' looking for a critique on their horses concerning halter classes. The vast majority of conformation threads don't mention particular disciplines at all. 

Besides, as has already been stated, someone who supposedly has so much experience and expertise in horses should be able to determine conformation regardless of whether or not the horse in question is fit.

A small tidbit about getting the horse in shape can be added to the critique, so other than this particular OP just trying to stir sh*t with a gigantic paddle, I see no point to this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## katbalu

The pics are at the end. This might be what started all this 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/would-guy-get-torn-up-halter-123501/

And i like this thread. It's very interesting.


----------



## kitten_Val

smrobs said:


> :rofl: OMG. Yep, you're totally right.
> 
> 
> However, last time I checked, Miss America didn't look like this either.....


****! In fact ~200lbs will be a good weight for someone 6+ ft + heavy bone structure and properly muscled up.... And those 200lbs will look way way nicer than all-the-bones-no-butt-no-breast model. Just saying...


----------



## PintoTess

Ah Katablu, you were asking about your horses hind end thats all!!

But I still dont see why Ripper was telling us all off for not having "proper" Halter horses when she said quiet clearly in your thread that they shown a swaybacked yearling. Nothing wrong with that but it is quiet hypocritical IMHO.


----------



## kitten_Val

SorrelHorse said:


> I'll enter a halter class with my awful looking giraffe necked awkward older gelding just so he can get in the arena and see it before we have to perform in there later. Rebel's conformation sucks, any halter judge would probably throw up if they saw him. Is that my problem? No. I paid my money to get in that arena with the class.


Very good point, SH. I did a halter class once (just a local show) when my qh just turned 2 years old. Was she fit? Of course not, she was youngster, not in work (plus her confo is far from desired, which I knew). And of course we didn't win anything. The only reason I did that was for her to get some experience to the show atmosphere, bunch of other horses around, etc. 

I agree with the original post that if you are _*serious *_about showing halter and have hopes and expectations your horse should be fit. However I don't quite understand how it is related to the people on forum. Frankly I'd be much more concerned to see an unfit horse in dressage or reining arena, because it's simply bad for the horse.


----------



## Ripper

Gremmy said:


> I'm a little confused about this thread. I am going to hope that the OP is only directed at threads where it was specified that the horse would be shown in halter. If that's the case, carry on  otherwise, this is a conformation critique board, _not_ a halter critique board. The two are different.
> 
> Ripper, you and I seem to agree on the value on a well put together horse. However I am not sure we agree on what defines such a thing. Conformation has always interested me and I enjoy honing my skills on boards like this to better train my 'eye' for a horse's build. Yet I have a personal dislike for the halter discipline. As the title of this thread beings with "IMO", mine is that the halter discipline and equine conformation have little in common (a generalized and unfair judgement I'm sure, apologies to any halter folks on here).
> 
> The definition of 'fit' depends on far more than what you're used to Ripper. Halter fit applies to halter horses, it does not mean that all horses that do not fit that standard are unfit. I for one have no problem critiquing an "unfit" horse - muscle can only build around the existing structure, and that is what I am looking at.


You are correct....I said only those who asked about halter.


----------



## Ripper

soenjer55 said:


> I don't recall Ripper ever referring to that horse posted as ideally fit... Just that halter horses needed to be fit with muscle....


I never used the word muscle.

I showed a mare AQHA for a season that was more TB than QH.

She did well.....we got her halter points.

She was fit and profiled like a dream.

If I got in the top...I knew I could moved her up three or, four places.


----------



## Jake and Dai

Ripper, perhaps you could post a picture of what you consider "fit for halter"? I think that would be quite helpful for us to understand exactly what you mean.


----------



## Ripper

PintoTess said:


> Ah Katablu, you were asking about your horses hind end thats all!!
> 
> But I still dont see why Ripper was telling us all off for not having "proper" Halter horses when she said quiet clearly in your thread that they shown a swaybacked yearling. Nothing wrong with that but it is quiet hypocritical IMHO.


No...I said we put pads on the front of a yearly once to see if it would balance him out.

We had to take them right off.

Then I told the poster how to show her horse.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/would-guy-get-torn-up-halter-123501/page2/

Post number 17 about the yearling.


----------



## Ripper

Jake and Dai said:


> Ripper, perhaps you could post a picture of what you consider "fit for halter"? I think that would be quite helpful for us to understand exactly what you mean.


It is the same horses that posters here asked about.....with lots of work.


----------



## Jake and Dai

Ripper said:


> It is the same horses that posters here asked about.....with lots of work.


I'm sorry...I don't know what you mean. I just went back through the thread and did not see an example you posted which is what I was looking for.

I'm a visual learning person so it is easier for me to understand when I see an example you post rather than see another horse plus comments on what could/should be different.

I hope that makes sense.


----------



## Ripper

Jake and Dai said:


> I'm sorry...I don't know what you mean. I just went back through the thread and did not see an example you posted which is what I was looking for.
> 
> I'm a visual learning person so it is easier for me to understand when I see an example you post rather than see another horse plus comments on what could/should be different.
> 
> I hope that makes sense.


You would have to look though the forum for those who have asked about halter.


----------



## spookychick13

Ripper said:


> I never used the word muscle.
> 
> I showed a mare AQHA for a season that was more TB than QH.
> 
> She did well.....we got her halter points.
> 
> She was fit and profiled like a dream.
> 
> If I got in the top...I knew I could moved her up three or, four places.


Do you have pictures of this mare? That would be a perfect example.


----------



## Ripper

spookychick13 said:


> Do you have pictures of this mare? That would be a perfect example.


No... not on my computer.


----------



## NdAppy

Ripper said:


> No...I said we put pads on the front of a yearly once to see if it would balance him out.
> 
> We had to take them right off.
> 
> Then I told the poster how to show her horse.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/would-guy-get-torn-up-halter-123501/page2/
> 
> Post number 17 about the yearling.


You also suggested in the thread that she "cheat" by digging holes with her foot when the judge isn't looking. How is that right in any way, shape or form?


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> You also suggested in the thread that she "cheat" by digging holes with her foot when the judge isn't looking. How is that right in any way, shape or form?


It is halter....not fitting and showing or, showmanship.


----------



## Speed Racer

Ripper said:


> It is halter....not fitting and showing or, showmanship.


So because it's 'only' halter, that makes cheating okay in your mind? You certainly have a sliding moral compass, don't you? :shock:


----------



## NdAppy

Ripper said:


> It is halter....not fitting and showing or, showmanship.


So that makes it alright to cheat? :shock::shock:

Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Ripper

Speed Racer said:


> So because it's 'only' halter, that makes cheating okay in your mind? You certainly have a sliding moral compass, don't you? :shock:


LOL.....

Like I said it is halter.

You can touch your horse.


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> So that makes it alright to cheat? :shock::shock:
> 
> Wow. Just wow.


Can you show me a rule against touching your horse in halter???

Not 4-H.......classes for adults.


----------



## NdAppy

Never said it was a rule.

You are suggesting a person cheat by altering their horses' appearance in some way. How is that right or moral?

Shouldn't surprise me at all considering all the other bad information you spew...


----------



## Speed Racer

Ripper said:


> Like I said it is halter.
> 
> You can touch your horse.


Touching your horse isn't the same as cheating, but apparently_ you_ don't know the difference. That right there tells me all I need to know about you. :?

I've shown halter in Arabian breed shows, so am not quite as ignorant as you might believe. Yes, you can _touch_ your horse, but trying to alter the conformational appearance of your animal is morally bankrupt and cheating, regardless of how you might _personally_ view it. If you can't win by the superior merits of your animal, then you don't _deserve_ to.


----------



## Ripper

Speed Racer said:


> Touching your horse isn't the same as cheating, but apparently_ you_ don't know the difference. That right there tells me all I need to know about you. :?
> 
> I've shown halter in Arabian breed shows, so am not quite as ignorant as you might believe. Yes, you can _touch_ your horse, but trying to alter the conformational appearance of your animal by CHEATING is morally bankrupt.


Then you can not find a rule???

Good.


----------



## NdAppy

So just because they haven't made a rule specifically stating "do not dig holes" you are alright with cheating? You seriously need to take a step back and gain some morals. You are just wrong on so many levels that you _have_ to be a troll...


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> So just because they haven't made a rule specifically stating "do not dig holes" you are alright with cheating? You seriously need to take a step back and gain some morals. You are just wrong on so many levels that you _have_ to be a troll...


Troll???

You are the one that can not produce a rule but, continue to post as you are correct.


----------



## Cat

If you say you have to do something "while the judge is not looking" then you do know its wrong.


----------



## Speed Racer

Ripper said:


> Then you can not find a rule???


I know you're trying to make me angry, but I find you pathetic. 

Any health advice you give is outdated and dangerous, and now you've just shown you think it's okay to cheat merely because they don't have a SPECIFIC rule about digging holes to make your horse look more balanced.

If your horses are so conformationally unbalanced that you have to try and cheat to make them look better, then their being fit is a moot point.


----------



## NdAppy

Ripper said:


> Troll???
> 
> You are the one that can not produce a rule but, continue to post as you are correct.



Since when does a rule have anything to do with cheating and knowing you are cheating. You stated to make sure to do it when the judge isn't looking... that means you _*know*_ it is cheating and just don't care. *THAT* is why I label you a troll.


----------



## nrhareiner

It is unfortunate but go watch a halter class at an AQHA show sometime. You will see just about every competitor doing something to ground and horses feet
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ripper

Speed Racer said:


> I know you're trying to make me angry, but I find you pathetic.
> 
> Any health advice you give is outdated and dangerous, and now you've just shown you think it's okay to cheat merely because they don't have a SPECIFIC rule about digging holes to make your horse look more balanced.
> 
> If your horses are so conformationally unbalanced that you have to try and cheat to make them look better, then their being fit is a moot point.


I don't see any reason someone would have to try and make you angry.

Anger comes naturally to some.


----------



## NdAppy

nrhareiner said:


> It is unfortunate but go watch a halter class at an AQHA show sometime. You will see just about every competitor doing something to ground and horses feet
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And that falls in the "just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean it is right" category. It just means that the people that are in those classes don't have any morals and are also attempting to cheat their way into a win. Sad really that they can't be happy with what they have and try and make it seem like something it is not by cheating in such a way...


----------



## Ripper

nrhareiner said:


> It is unfortunate but go watch a halter class at an AQHA show sometime. You will see just about every competitor doing something to ground and horses feet
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep....I have seen some pulling so hard on the horse's hocks I have thought the horse would fall over.

But, it was NOT cheating.


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> And that falls in the "just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean it is right" category. It just means that the people that are in those classes don't have any morals and are also attempting to cheat their way into a win. Sad really that they can't be happy with what they have and try and make it seem like something it is not by cheating in such a way...


I disagree.

They are there to present the horse in the best way possible.


----------



## apachiedragon

Eventually this is going to lead to titles and wins meaning absolutely nothing more than a person knew how to cheat or con or buy their way into the ribbons. It used to be that titles actually gave you an idea of the worth of the horse, no so much anymore. And with thinking like that, it is only going to continue to slide downhill.


----------



## NdAppy

And that, once again, points out that you lack any kind of morals that you see nothing wrong with cheating.


----------



## Ripper

apachiedragon said:


> Eventually this is going to lead to titles and wins meaning absolutely nothing more than a person knew how to cheat or con or buy their way into the ribbons. It used to be that titles actually gave you an idea of the worth of the horse, no so much anymore. And with thinking like that, it is only going to continue to slide downhill.


It is not cheating.

What is the reason for continuing to argue a moot point???


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> And that, once again, points out that you lack any kind of morals that you see nothing wrong with cheating.


Show me a rule that says it is cheating.


----------



## CLaPorte432

Ripper, can we see just ONE picture of a champion halter horse that you have bred and shown? Maybe then we will see what your definition of "halter fit" is...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nrhareiner

Not sure why everyone seems to think judges are idiots. If you dig a hole to put your horses feet in it they can tell. What most of them are actually doing is making sure That the ground is prepared properly so not too altered actual look of the horse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Ripper said:


> Show me a rule that says it is cheating.


If you're doing it behind the judge's back, then you obviously know it's cheating. If you think it's perfectly acceptable and that 'everyone does it', why not do it in front of the judge? After all, if it's okay to do, then the judges must be okay with seeing it.


----------



## Ripper

CLaPorte432 said:


> Ripper, can we see just ONE picture of a champion halter horse that you have bred and shown? Maybe then we will see what your definition of "halter fit" is...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OK.....Quarter Horse Directory - Impressive Tommy

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/impressive+tommy

There is a picture in the second link.

I was not the breeder of this horse.


----------



## NdAppy

No a picture of a horse _while it was in your care and winning_. Not later, but while in your care.


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> No a picture of a horse _while it was in your care and winning_. Not later, but while in your care.


LOL...that was long before computers in every home.

When I get time I will get some and out them on my PC.


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> No a picture of a horse _while it was in your care and winning_. Not later, but while in your care.


Tommy was wining and in my care in that picture.


----------



## MakeYourMark




----------



## Ripper

MakeYourMark said:


>


Where did I say that????

Link please.


----------



## NdAppy

You don't outright state that, but you imply it with _every single post_ that your way is the only way and refuse to see anything differently. You Ma'am are a barnacle.


----------



## MakeYourMark

Ripper said:


> Where did I say that????
> 
> Link please.


http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/imo-critiquing-123570/

Just read through the whole thread, it was conveyed multiple times.


----------



## Ripper

MakeYourMark said:


> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/imo-critiquing-123570/
> 
> Just read through the whole thread, it was conveyed multiple times.


That is right...IMO.

Is that all you have????


----------



## nvr2many

katbalu said:


> Nah I couldn't look at my horse without laughing if he looked like that. I'd hear Arnold schwartzanegger Every time. I want to PUMP YOU UP!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its a tooom-ma, lol. :lol:


----------



## natisha

Ripper said:


> I disagree.
> 
> They are there to present the horse in the best way possible.


Seems a waste of time to actually bring a horse at all. Why not just have a class where the exhibitors show big posters of photo-shopped horses?


----------



## Ripper

natisha said:


> Seems a waste of time to actually bring a horse at all. Why not just have a class where the exhibitors show big posters of photo-shopped horses?


Give it a try.

Maybe you will start something new.


----------



## Ripper

NdAppy said:


> You don't outright state that, but you imply it with _every single post_ that your way is the only way and refuse to see anything differently. You Ma'am are a barnacle.


Yet...I am not the one being rude......:-o:-o:-o


----------



## natisha

Ripper said:


> Give it a try.
> 
> Maybe you will start something new.


Naw, too hard to get them to stand still on windy days.


----------



## spookychick13

Winning is with two n's. And you USED to raise quarter horse foals, not use to.

/random annoyance


----------



## Ripper

spookychick13 said:


> Winning is with two n's. And you USED to raise quarter horse foals, not use to.
> 
> /random annoyance


My apologies for my shortcomings.


----------



## Ripper

natisha said:


> Naw, too hard to get them to stand still on windy days.


True.....and paper cuts can be painful!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## natisha

Ripper said:


> Yet...I am not the one being rude......:-o:-o:-o


You may not be rude but you sure have cornered the market on passive/aggressive.

I think the main problem here is the lack of definition for 'fit' for halter. That will vary according to breed. For example, a fit Saddlebred will not look at all like a fit QH. 
Most shows with halter classes judge the horse's overall balance & potential performance ability. For most big time stock breed halter horses showing at halter _is_ their performance ability.


----------



## Ripper

natisha said:


> You may not be rude but you sure have cornered the market on passive/aggressive.
> 
> I think the main problem here is the lack of definition for 'fit' for halter. That will vary according to breed. For example, a fit Saddlebred will not look at all like a fit QH.
> Most shows with halter classes judge the horse's overall balance & potential performance ability. For most big time stock breed halter horses showing at halter _is_ their performance ability.


"Fit" is the same goal if not the same result.

I would be surprised if any big time breeders are asking for advice on how their halter horses look on here.

Perhaps I missed it???


----------



## SorrelHorse

Well the entertainment value of this thread is gone so I'm gonna sit back and watch now...My opinion hasn't changed since the last time I posted with the picture of our stud.


----------



## nvr2many

I just have to say, when I started reading this last night I thought, "oh, someone is drunk posting". Kinda surprised to see the same attitude still continuing today.


----------



## Kayella

Wow this thread is just one big argument. Nothing good is coming of this thread except for people being able to vent their anger.


----------



## Golden Horse

Ripper said:


> Anger comes naturally to some.


Much as stupidity does to others


----------



## natisha

Ripper said:


> "Fit" is the same goal if not the same result.
> 
> I would be surprised if any big time breeders are asking for advice on how their halter horses look on here.
> 
> Perhaps I missed it???


They don't need to. They know what sells to people interested in having a show halter horse.
Most people here ask for a critique to judge a horse's suitabilty to do something other than halter. How a horse is put together makes a difference in what it can do. 
Hunter in hand is a halter class too but it compares hunters to hunters. Most of those horses do something besides halter.


----------



## themacpack

natisha said:


> You may not be rude but you sure have cornered the market on passive/aggressive.
> 
> I think the main problem here is the lack of definition for 'fit' for halter. That will vary according to breed. For example, a fit Saddlebred will not look at all like a fit QH.
> Most shows with halter classes judge the horse's overall balance & potential performance ability. For most big time stock breed halter horses showing at halter _is_ their performance ability.


Yes......to look at "halter" through one, very narrow, perspective as ONLY applying to the AQHA halter type is a huge part of the problem I think. Ripper seems to be viewing scrub horse posted for critique through that very perspective.


----------



## Hailey1203

Im gonna sub to this. I'd like to see how it ends up.


----------



## Cat

Hailey1203 said:


> Im gonna sub to this. I'd like to see how it ends up.


Think of a big mushroom cloud from an atomic bomb. :shock:


----------



## Ripper

natisha said:


> They don't need to. They know what sells to people interested in having a show halter horse.
> Most people here ask for a critique to judge a horse's suitabilty to do something other than halter. How a horse is put together makes a difference in what it can do.
> Hunter in hand is a halter class too but it compares hunters to hunters. Most of those horses do something besides halter.


Yes...that is why I was clear......"posters who ask about halter".


----------



## Back2Horseback

Guys, I've been reading off & on since last night. The ONLY thing I believe I have learned on this thread is that, unfortunately, people with a great deal of true horse experience and likely much better things to do have been sucked into 13+ PAGES of pointless arguments which have done nothing but feed Ripper's clearly HIGHLY distressed ego, insulted good people in an overwhellmingly passive/aggressive manner (as Natisha pointed out!), people whom have been pulled along by an OBVIOUS TROLL who is very clearly getting her rocks off at the expense of many people whom I have come to like and respect a whole lot, & is also quite possibly dealing with something called Borderline Personality Disorder, sadly. Ripper's manner of "sucking folks in" while ACTING impervious to the whole situation is just how the folks with this terribly devastating mental health diagnosis get the sort of attention they so desperately seek in life but rarely obtain.

Thus, my only advice is to please, stop feeding Ripper's "need" to be the center of attention and to argue smugly simultaneously, and lets ALL exit this thread now, permanently, and spend our time interacting with the other AWESOME FOLKS on HF who either really need advice, or would actually desire to give some.

P.S. Maybe the mods would consider shutting this thread down...it's going nowhere good.


----------



## Ripper

Back2Horseback said:


> Guys, I've been reading off & on since last night. The ONLY thing I believe I have learned on this thread is that, unfortunately, people with a great deal of true horse experience and likely much better things to do have been sucked into 13+ PAGES of pointless arguments which have done nothing but feed Ripper's clearly HIGHLY distressed ego, insulted good people in an overwhellmingly passive/aggressive manner (as Natisha pointed out!), people whom have been pulled along by an OBVIOUS TROLL who is very clearly getting her rocks off at the expense of many people whom I have come to like and respect a whole lot, & is also quite possibly dealing with something called Borderline Personality Disorder, sadly. Ripper's manner of "sucking folks in" while ACTING impervious to the whole situation is just how the folks with this terribly devastating mental health diagnosis get the sort of attention they so desperately seek in life but rarely obtain.
> 
> Thus, my only advice is to please, stop feeding Ripper's "need" to be the center of attention and to argue smugly simultaneously, and lets ALL exit this thread now, permanently, and spend our time interacting with the other AWESOME FOLKS on HF who either really need advice, or would actually desire to give some.
> 
> P.S. Maybe the mods would consider shutting this thread down...it's going nowhere good.


Haveing your horse fit is the best advice you can get for showing.

As far as your personal attack.....yep...the mods will read it.


----------



## katbalu

say...homeboy ain't no scrub...lol


----------



## Speed Racer

No, but he's butt high. Quick, dig a hole for his back legs while the judge isn't looking! :rofl:


----------



## Ripper

katbalu said:


> say...homeboy ain't no scrub...lol


Your horse can profile.

Now...tone the horse up and get the hind feet under the hips.

Then we will talk about the neck.


----------



## katbalu

hooves under hips. kinda. tails in the way


----------



## smrobs

Speed Racer said:


> Besides, as has already been stated, someone who supposedly has so much experience and expertise in horses should be able to determine conformation regardless of whether or not the horse in question is fit.


Truthfully, it doesn't surprise me one bit that all she mentions is "fitting" the horse. After all, conformation has zero bearing on whether the horse wins, it's all about the bulk and the "pretty head". So, it is not such a surprise that she can't seem to offer much by way of an _actual_ conformation critique.

I must say, this is the funniest thread I have read in quite some time. Does the OP remind anyone else of a certain arachnid that shall remain nameless? The consistent spouting of "I've won all these things, blah, blah, blah" with absolutely zero proof to back it up :lol:.

Pictures from the '70s are really not that difficult to get, you know...

This picture was just a hair older, taken in '82










This picture was taken in '78 when this mare set Appaloosa history.









Taken in '79









Taken in '80










Maybe it's just me, but considering that these pictures really aren't that big of a deal to my Dad (who trained/showed all these horses) and yet they are still readily available, I find it really hard to believe that someone who makes such a huge stink about how amazing she was has absolutely zero pictures of anything from that time.....


----------



## DrumRunner

Speed Racer said:


> No, but he's butt high. Quick, dig a hole for his back legs while the judge isn't looking! :rofl:


:clap: :rofl:



Ripper said:


> Yet...I am not the one being rude......:-o:-o:-o


You're kidding right?? You're the one who started this whole thread bashing other horses..Sorry but you need to check the dictionary..
Let me google that for you

Sorry but I find it hard to believe you don't have any pictures of your amazing, winning, and extremely fit halter horses. 

You can post all you want.

But that doesn't make it right.

It's just your opinion.

But please.

Keep telling us how we're wrong.

It hurts my feelings so much.

Someone that *used* to own and show "fit" halter horses.

Laugh.



smrobs said:


> I must say, this is the funniest thread I have read in quite some time. Does the OP remind anyone else of a certain arachnid that shall remain nameless? The consistent spouting of "I've won all these things, blah, blah, blah" with absolutely zero proof to back it up :lol:.


:rofl: Yes..very much so..


----------



## katbalu

i guess ill start digging


----------



## Ripper

DrumRunner said:


> :clap: :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> You're kidding right?? You're the one who started this whole thread bashing other horses..Sorry but you need to check the dictionary..
> Let me google that for you
> 
> Sorry but I find it hard to believe you don't have any pictures of your amazing, winning, and extremely fit halter horses.
> 
> You can post all you want.
> 
> But that doesn't make it right.
> 
> It's just your opinion.
> 
> But please.
> 
> Keep telling us how we're wrong.
> 
> It hurts my feelings so much.
> 
> Someone that *used* to own and show "fit" halter horses.
> 
> Laugh.
> 
> 
> 
> :rofl: Yes..very much so..


The title of the thread is "IMO".

As for you not believing me.....

I will just cry in my pillow tonight.


----------



## DrumRunner

Ripper said:


> The title of the thread is "IMO".
> 
> As for you not believing me.....
> 
> I will just cry in my pillow tonight.


It may have started "IMO" but now you're telling people they are wrong..Um, do I need to Google that for you too?

You may need a pillow or two.

A box of Kleenex just to be safe.


----------



## Ripper

smrobs said:


> Truthfully, it doesn't surprise me one bit that all she mentions is "fitting" the horse. After all, conformation has zero bearing on whether the horse wins, it's all about the bulk and the "pretty head". So, it is not such a surprise that she can't seem to offer much by way of an _actual_ conformation critique.
> 
> I must say, this is the funniest thread I have read in quite some time. Does the OP remind anyone else of a certain arachnid that shall remain nameless? The consistent spouting of "I've won all these things, blah, blah, blah" with absolutely zero proof to back it up :lol:.
> 
> Pictures from the '70s are really not that difficult to get, you know...
> 
> This picture was just a hair older, taken in '82
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> This picture was taken in '78 when this mare set Appaloosa history.
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> Taken in '79
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> Taken in '80
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> Maybe it's just me, but considering that these pictures really aren't that big of a deal to my Dad (who trained/showed all these horses) and yet they are still readily available, I find it really hard to believe that someone who makes such a huge stink about how amazing she was has absolutely zero pictures of anything from that time.....


I said I did not have them on my PC.


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## Ripper

DrumRunner said:


> It may have started "IMO" but now you're telling people they are wrong..Um, do I need to Google that for you too?
> 
> You may need a pillow or two.
> 
> A box of Kleenex just to be safe.


Where??


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## smrobs

katbalu said:


> hooves under hips. kinda. tails in the way


Not a bad looking little horse. Hard to get an accurate critique on his head/neck due to it being turned in this picture and on the alert in your other one. Neck appears just a bit on the short side but may look better when he has his head level. Shoulder angle is good, front legs are nice and straight with good pastern angle. Perhaps a bit light on bone but not terrible. Back is nice and short, but it's a bit too angled downhill.

Hind end: He has a very steep croup and he is fairly straight through his hip and stifle giving him a fairly pronounced goose rump. His hocks look good from what I can see, they appear to have good angle to them and they line up well, good pastern angle on the back.

I don't see any reason why he couldn't do decently well at lower level shows. The biggest thing is that you'll have to use your abilities to make up for his shortcomings. Make sure that he'll stand up square without you having to fiddle with him for a long time. Make sure that he'll walk and trot up nicely at your shoulder with no resistance, etc.

I would start riding/working him a bit more to try to get rid of that belly, but other than that, he looks good.





_That_, Ripper, is how you do a critique .


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## Ripper

smrobs said:


> Not a bad looking little horse. Hard to get an accurate critique on his head/neck due to it being turned in this picture and on the alert in your other one. Neck appears just a bit on the short side but may look better when he has his head level. Shoulder angle is good, front legs are nice and straight with good pastern angle. Perhaps a bit light on bone but not terrible. Back is nice and short, but it's a bit too angled downhill.
> 
> Hind end: He has a very steep croup and he is fairly straight through his hip and stifle giving him a fairly pronounced goose rump. His hocks look good from what I can see, they appear to have good angle to them and they line up well, good pastern angle on the back.
> 
> I don't see any reason why he couldn't do decently well at lower level shows. The biggest thing is that you'll have to use your abilities to make up for his shortcomings. Make sure that he'll stand up square without you having to fiddle with him for a long time. Make sure that he'll walk and trot up nicely at your shoulder with no resistance, etc.
> 
> I would start riding/working him a bit more to try to get rid of that belly, but other than that, he looks good.
> 
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> 
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> 
> _That_, Ripper, is how you do a critique .


Yep...you said get him fit and stand him better......that is what I said.


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## MakeYourMark

Ripper said:


> Yep...you said get him fit and stand him better......that is what I said.


Quick question – what qualifies you to be such a "halter" guru? I'm a wee bit lost in that regard, and haven't seen or heard anything to validate your, er, superior advice.


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## MHFoundation Quarters

I think this thread has ran it's course, there is nothing that's going to be gained here. With that, I'm closing this one.


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