# Mountain Lion?!?!? What to do?



## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

I don't often post, so pardon my randomness!

Originally I'm from outside of D.C., where the largest predators I've dealt with are cute red foxes. Last summer, my husband and I moved to Los Angeles, where I promptly found an amazing horse to lease (why won't they sell her!?!) near the Los Angeles National Forest. 

Though I knew there was the possibility of Mountain Lions, I figured/hoped I would not run into one. 

So, recently, when Playday (the Wonder Horse) and I were trotting along the trail home and I spotted a large animal standing in the middle of the trail ahead I thought it was the Coyote of Unusual Size we had met earlier. Then I noticed it moved like a cat. 'Bobcat' I thought hopefully. I'd heard those sometimes made an appearance.

Then, it turned sideways. Long, twitching tail. Very Big. I almost had a heart attack. I didn't know what to do! Playday didn't seem to realize the danger...we were on the part of the trail where we often canter and she wanted to get to stepping. So. I ended up following the lion. 

It would walk, we would walk. It would stop and contemplate us. I would debate the merits of running away or running toward it while trying to remember what Laura Ingalls Wilder's dad did when encountering panthers on horseback. Playday would jig, desperate for a nice canter.

We did this for quite a while. Until finally it veered off up the mountain. I waited a minute...then scurried past. And saw it looking at us as it rubbed its face happily on a tree like a house cat would your leg. 

So. My question is this:

I now know it was wise not to run away....but what do I do? Some have said to yell, some have said to make myself big, some have said to turn around and walk calmly away. I've also heard I should have just veered off and trailblazed myself to to a nearby creek, then ridden down said creek until it crossed over the trail I had originally been on.

I am not likely to do the last suggestion. Way too much Poison Oak and potential for snakes. Unless that's really the safest? 

Anyway, I'm hoping those with way more scary-exciting-yet-heart-stopping predator encounter experience can advise.

OH! Also, lately there's been a lot of bear sightings on the news, and I've heard it's possible I may run into those as well....what do I do then?


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Most wild animals are no threat and afraid of you, just making a lot of noise will scare those off. Sounds like you ran into a cat that's not very afraid of people and that's not a good thing. Once predators lose fear of man, man becomes food. There are several non lethal things you can carry for bears and cats but unfortunately if not used right they can pretty darn dangerous for riders but then firing a gun from the back of an untrained horse is pretty darn dangerous too.

I would report your encounter to game and wildlife management. If the cat is a problem they can safely remove it. If it was me, I would be packing for protection too.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm less worried about meeting mtn lion when horseback than when on foot. On horseback, and I have seen them, I roar (vocally) and charge my horse at them a few steps. Stop. And they have always left. 

On foot, I frequently look back. Lion come up from behind. I also always carry a handgun for several reasons. One being in case of lion attack. Another being in case I fall off and land in some rocky, hidden draw and need help I would be able to signal.

Once, when my youngest was 8 years old, she went running up the hill in our back yard. I stood at the back door, smiling, enjoying seeing her so happy. A movement caught my eye further up the hill. She was running right toward a mtn. lion! I had taught my children that if I yelled to go to the house or car, to do it, and I'd explain later. I yelled for her to go to the house, grabbed a baseball bat that was near the door, and went running, waving my arms and bellowing up the hill. The mountain lion, crouched lower, then turned while staying almost flat in the brush, and ran off.

If I hadn't been watching her...



> Once predators lose fear of man, man becomes food.


Unarmed and on foot, we are not at the top of the food chain.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

First of all. Congratulation on actually seeing one in the wild. Very few people have this priviledge.

Cougars, like most cats are curious and they will often sneek up on things they are not sure about and just watch. I guess trying to decide if you could be a meal. Running away definitely spurs the chase instinct. So don't run.

Usually becoming as big as possible. making loud noise. firing a gun, compressed air horns etc will send them running. They are not brave animals when dealing with things they are unsure of.

If your cat was in no hurry to leave, I probably would have tried to choose an alternate route that did not follow the cat. 

Bears are another matter. Especially the big bears. Most black bears will flee. But the grizzlies are much closer to the top of the food chain and have little fear. Again running will stir the chase instinct. So you are better off to stay put. 

Always make sure you are giving the wild animal an outlet. Don't block off it's escape route. Whether it's a rattle snake, cougar or bear, They will usually just leave rather than fight.


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## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Subbing! I'd like to know this, too. :wink:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Since the OP is in California, I'll point out that packing a gun isn't a very viable option. Getting a concealed permit is very difficult in many parts of California, and open carry of a handgun - even if it is unloaded - is illegal in many parts as well.

CaliforniaOpenCarry.org - FAQ

I think the OP did about as well as a person could do, under the circumstances. I would report it, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for someone to do anything.

I might consider carrying pepper spray. It would be helpful against the two legged wild animals as well.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is there a way you can desensatize the horse to an airhorn? That'll be loud enough to scare an unwanted animal away. Especially if you cant carry a gun to protect yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

The best thing to do is prevent an encounter by making sure they hear you coming. We have hundreds of black bear around us and have yet to see one while riding or hiking. Yell "HEY BEAR!!!" every mile and wear a bear bell.
"sneaking" up on one is the worst thing and Heaven forbid the bear or lion has cubs with her.

We carry guns for last minuet protection, only to be used if we are physically attacked. If charged we would stand our ground and retreat slowely, making ourselves loud and as big looking as possible. Spray wouldn't be a bad idea for you, but I'd only use it after you've practiced handling it, and probably only if you've been thrown. A blinded scared horse is a dangerous useless one in that kind of situation!
I've been charged on foot by moose and bear when I worked in Yellowstone, so it does work. On horse not yet, but again we talk and yell and do everything possible to prevent an encounter.

Kudos to your mare!! And you for keeping your cool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Painted Horse said:


> First of all. Congratulation on actually seeing one in the wild. Very few people have this priviledge.
> 
> Cougars, like most cats are curious and they will often sneek up on things they are not sure about and just watch. I guess trying to decide if you could be a meal. Running away definitely spurs the chase instinct. So don't run.
> 
> ...


awesome pic! what size zoom did you use?


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

One more thing... Most prey animals will do the same as you did in the wild. If they find or sense a predator they follow it and track it from afar, making sure it's in front of them, not behind. The Lion knew his gig was up so he's more likely to keep doing his thing and not mess with you.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

That is so scary!


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Everyone has given great advice. I have seen a couple lions here (The mountains of Oregon) once on horseback, but mainly during deer/elk season when I'm hunting. Trust me, they will always see you first, an they are the only animal in the woods that scare the hell out of me.

I always trail ride with my pistol around my hip and my small knife in my pocket and larger knife on my saddle. I don't ride with pepper spray because I am more comfortable with a gun, but if guns aren't your thing and your horse wouldn't stand to be shot off of, I would go get some spray.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Eclipse. Just what zoom the little Kodak point and shoot digital camera has. we were not very far away as we had a gang of dogs chasing that cat. And we were right there pulling the dogs away from the base of the tree.

This brings up another issue. California does allow hunters to chase cougars with dogs. We almost never kill the cats we chase. But the fact that we do chase them helps the Cougars keep a healthy respect for avoiding man. Cougars in California, never get chased and hence have become more accustomed to being around people.


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## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

Thank you SO much, everyone, for your awesome advice...I'm sorry I've taken so long - we've had guests in from out of town and I totally underestimated my ability to get on a computer. 


That said, @Boots, OMG. How brave and cool headed a response when you saw your child come so close to danger? Wow. I got chills just reading your story.

@Darrin - When I got back to the barn I promptly told the barn owner who said they'd spread the word a lion had been spotted so close...I don't know if that includes Game and Wildlife Management. But I will check. And you're right - my lion seemed totally unruffled. Also, I totally agree about the gun thing - not only am I only familiar with the water-pistol variety, but I suspect that Playday (accustomed as she to craziness from her former life harness racing ) would not respond well. I'd probably end up saving the cat the trouble of having to work for it's meal! 

@Paintedhorse - You are so right. Seeing the lion in the wild was exhilarating...its shoulders moving in the sunlight was a sight I'll never forget. Even though I was choking on fear at the same time! If I'd seen one up in a tree like in the INCREDIBLE picture you shared, I'd have froze. In fact, it didn't even occur to me one could be in a tree. Which is kind of embarrassing (OF COURSE they'd be up a tree! Wasn't that how it went down in _Little House on the Prairie_?). I'll be a bit less bold charging up the trail next time, proud of myself for scanning the undergrowth for cats. I'll have to include the trees now too! Also, why won't California chase cougars? It seems like a sensible thing if it makes them more wary of humans...

@BSMS, I'm actually glad to hear about the gun permit situation, since that makes it officially not an option! I really wouldn't feel comfortable carrying a gun at all. But pepper spray...that's something I'm more familiar with. 

@Flygap - Thank you! Playday is pretty awesome. If you can believe it, she's only 4! I can only imagine what a steady girl she'll be when she's older. As for me, I surprised myself. I thought for sure if I ever encountered one I'd not be able to control my fear. It's kind of a relief to know that I kind-of-sort-of did the right thing...and thank you for the pepper spray tip. Self-injury is my concern with any weapon. But I'd feel better with a last resort like pepper spray - I ride out alone a lot. 

@Sorrelhorse- Thank you!

@Celeste - It was!  I suspect that since you're in Georgia you're like me and large predators are something that have only been seen at the zoo!


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

Nifty thing called a scabbard.
You can put a pump shotgun or a lever action rifle in it, and it's readily accessible if ol' shiny eyes pokes it's head out at you again.
Even if used as anoisemaker, if things start going south, you still have the lethal option, as a last resort.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

gtmochi, I would be very very careful with pepper spray. If the wind blows wrong your horse will get a dose and that will save a cougar the trouble of chasing you down, and you come with seasoning already applied. Pepper spray is not something you can train your horse to accept I believe.

For non lethal your best bet would be an air horn. You can work with your mare (she's really only 4 with that attitude?) to stay calm when used. Start with something fairly quiet, like a whistle and go up from there in decibels.

I'm not sure of CA laws on hunting cat but just up north in Oregon it has been illegal to use dogs for hunting cat for some years now. There is also laws against harrasing game so cats up here basically are not hunted. They've lost their fear of man and are slowly becoming more of a problem. Interestingly, the official state hunter for Oregon is allowed to use dogs to nab troublesome cats. What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander it seems.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

First of all, I would not go out on those trails alone anymore.

Wear the bell. It might help. Though cats tend to follow you, and watch you and maybe staulk you, so warning them may not do anything.

On horse back, spraying pepper spray might only bring a cloud of it back in your own or horse's eyes.

If you had a rope and your horse could tolerate you swinging it off of her, then you might swing it and yell at the cat.

Otherwise, given all, I think you did well and made the best choices.


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## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

Darrin said:


> gtmochi, I would be very very careful with pepper spray. If the wind blows wrong your horse will get a dose and that will save a cougar the trouble of chasing you down, and you come with seasoning already applied. Pepper spray is not something you can train your horse to accept I believe.
> 
> For non lethal your best bet would be an air horn. You can work with your mare (she's really only 4 with that attitude?) to stay calm when used. Start with something fairly quiet, like a whistle and go up from there in decibels.
> 
> I'm not sure of CA laws on hunting cat but just up north in Oregon it has been illegal to use dogs for hunting cat for some years now. There is also laws against harrasing game so cats up here basically are not hunted. They've lost their fear of man and are slowly becoming more of a problem. Interestingly, the official state hunter for Oregon is allowed to use dogs to nab troublesome cats. What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander it seems.


Thanks Darrin! Now I think maybe the air horn is the safest for me since I can work with Playday to get used to it. I always feel that I'm safer mounted, and the last thing I want to do is make myself a spicy treat for an alarmingly large predator.

The whole dog/no dog cougar hunting sounds like a huge double standard...if the cats aren't being hurt and it helps keep them wary of people, it seems a win-win for everyone? Although admittedly my knowledge about hunting and things related is lacking. Unless it involves fox hunting. Which in the few rides I've done did not actually involve a fox. So really, I guess my hunting IQ = 0.

Meanwhile, I can't resist gushing - isn't it amazing she's only 4?? Lucky for me she didn't make it as a harness racer (she clips her front L with her back R and wasn't quite fast enough) so her owners brought her home from the track in Sacramento as a riding horse. She's a total pro when comes to almost any kind of potential scary moment: fire trucks, large groups of bikers, plastic bags, rogue beer cans clattering out of no-where, 4 wheelers, assorted animals including yaks but excluding sheep....still can't figure out that one. Large groups of them give her the willies! 

Thanks again for your (and everyone's) advice. I knew you all would have great knowledge and experience to share!


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## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

azwantapaint said:


> Nifty thing called a scabbard.
> You can put a pump shotgun or a lever action rifle in it, and it's readily accessible if ol' shiny eyes pokes it's head out at you again.
> Even if used as anoisemaker, if things start going south, you still have the lethal option, as a last resort.


Oh man. Me and guns are not a good mix! I have never shot one in my life! But thank you


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## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> Though cats tend to follow you, and watch you and maybe staulk you, so warning them may not do anything.
> 
> .


This terrifies me. I have resisted not going on this trail anymore. Such great hills for working on her bum and my balance, and so cool when the southern trails are hot. Not to mention that my riding times are when everyone else is working (I freelance from home). 

Something to seriously consider. Thinking about it following us gives me the shivers.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Move to Georgia.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

gtmochi said:


> Oh man. Me and guns are not a good mix! I have never shot one in my life! But thank you


I bet there was a time when you never rode a horse either.

You can learn to handle guns and shoot safely and it's not nearly as difficult as everything involved with horseback riding.

The thing about pepper spray is the wind. You're likely to spray yourself, or your horse, then what's plan B?


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

There sure have been a lot of cougar, bobcat, and coyote sightings lately across the map o.o makes you wonder.

Be careful out there OP!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Pepper spray & horses...the pepper spray is not for warning the cougar away. Get some pepper spray in your horse's eyes, and you would be worse off than before. My thought was that the pepper spray was a last resort if the cougar decided to attack. I did read an account once of a woman around 1820 being pulled off her horse by a cougar...she survived and boasted about the scars, but I think most of us would prefer not to try that.

Happily, I live in a place where I can carry a gun. However, none of my horses have been trained to shoot off of, so a 357 would be a weapon of last resort for me as well. I tell folks that with the Mexican border just 60 miles south, I'd need to point my horse north before firing because I don't carry a passport with me.:wink:

I doubt many cougars would try to pull a human off a horse. If the horse doesn't bolt, then a horse & rider just doesn't look like very good prey for a cougar. But if my horse bolted & I came off, or the cougar DID attack me on horseback, I'd like some other option than harsh language. In Arizona, it would be my buddies Mr Smith & Mr Wesson. In California, I guess I'd have to hope the cougar hadn't developed a taste for chili...


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

First of all. Don't give up riding that trail. Cougars have a very large territory that they prowl. He could be in the next county over and not return to this area for months.

Even if he does return, He didn't threaten you the first encounter and chances are he won't on a second. He is just curious. Don't trigger the chase instinct and all will most likely be fine. I hunt in areas where I know cougars live. I see their tracks, I see their kills that they have been feeding on, But rarely do I ever see them. Seeing a cougar in the wild is a very rare experience for most people. You have a much greater chance of getting hurt in a traffic accident on your home than getting mauled by a cougar. But you have not stopped driving.

Teaching a horse to handle a sudden noise is not difficult. I teach my horses to deal with gun shots by having a friend hold them and I fire the first few shots 10-15 feet away. Aim the gun away from the horse to minimize the loudness. The first time or two, the horse may spook and jump around, by 5 or 6 shots, they get used to it and calm down, Move closer and repeat until you can shoot out of the saddle. Look at the Cowboy Mounted Shooting. Those guys run a course and shoot 10 balloons at a full run and horses don't miss a beat. Same goes for the air horn. Just teach the horse to spook in place.

You can thank PETA and similar organizations for the no dogs chasing cougar/bear laws. Cougars are so secretative that it's almost impossible to find them, let alone catch them with out the use of dogs.


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## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

Painted Horse said:


> First of all. Don't give up riding that trail. Cougars have a very large territory that they prowl. He could be in the next county over and not return to this area for months.
> 
> Even if he does return, He didn't threaten you the first encounter and chances are he won't on a second. He is just curious. Don't trigger the chase instinct and all will most likely be fine. I hunt in areas where I know cougars live. I see their tracks, I see their kills that they have been feeding on, But rarely do I ever see them. Seeing a cougar in the wild is a very rare experience for most people. You have a much greater chance of getting hurt in a traffic accident on your home than getting mauled by a cougar. But you have not stopped driving.
> 
> ...



It's a relief to hear that! I'd hate to not ride on this trail solo anymore. I love it - and so does Playday! Knowing the lion may not be back from months and the likely hood of it's return at the same time I'm on the trail is slim is comforting. 

I'll be googling Cowboy Mounted Shooting now! I've never heard of it but it sounds awesome!

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond. I feel much better about my options for keeping us safe on the trail!


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

California has some strict carry laws, but as the old saying goes, "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6".

One of my goals is to get my horse used to gun fire. I don't really want to compete, but if I did, Cowboy action shooting would be my event.

Think we'll ever get it to be an Olympic event?


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## chrislynnet (Jul 8, 2012)

I live in the middle of the Angeles National Forest, I'm guessing the OP was referring to this. I'm just coming back to riding after many years away but I hike the forest every day with my dog. Bears are a fact of life up here but I have never had an encounter. The only time I spotted one I was rather far away. Believe me, I stayed that way! There are some bear-human fatalities, but every time that happened because the bear found human picnic food and the humans tried to fight them off. Hello?! Mt. lions are rarely a problem because they are so secretive. It's not like they're prowling around presenting themselves as a target for dog packs. Recently a mt. lion started jumping fences around here and killing dogs (Wrightwood CA) so she was hunted and killed, but that is extremely rare behavior for them.


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## chrislynnet (Jul 8, 2012)

gunslinger said:


> California has some strict carry laws, but as the old saying goes, "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6".


I hear you on that. I recently made the decision to invest in a handgun for the trail, more for hiking with my dog but also when I'm riding up here. There are some areas in the national forest where it's legal to carry openly, but I don't want to freak anyone out.


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## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

chrislynnet said:


> I live in the middle of the Angeles National Forest, I'm guessing the OP was referring to this. I'm just coming back to riding after many years away but I hike the forest every day with my dog. Bears are a fact of life up here but I have never had an encounter. The only time I spotted one I was rather far away. Believe me, I stayed that way! There are some bear-human fatalities, but every time that happened because the bear found human picnic food and the humans tried to fight them off. Hello?! Mt. lions are rarely a problem because they are so secretive. It's not like they're prowling around presenting themselves as a target for dog packs. Recently a mt. lion started jumping fences around here and killing dogs (Wrightwood CA) so she was hunted and killed, but that is extremely rare behavior for them.


That's exactly where I am...my barn is in Lakeview Terrace. Out the back gate is a wash that I can ride south to the Hansen Dam and north to National Forest, which is where I saw the Lion...it was within shouting distance of a very nice stable up the road, Middle C. Lately we've been hearing about bears too, but ever since seeing the lion I've been on high alert! But after reading everyone's responses I'm feeling better about what I can do if I ever encounter one again.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

If it were my horse that got attacked....I'd be on the hunt for what ever did it.

I'd apply the three S's.....shoot, shovel, shut up.


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## nickers103 (Aug 10, 2010)

This is a great topic and I am glad to see it brought up. I think that we all could use some education on encountering large predators while out on the trails!


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## soileddove (Jul 27, 2010)

Awesome topic. Glad I sat and read all of it.. I'm in SE MN. We don't typically get much in the way of big predators, although it _does_ happen. I have my permit to carry, but I do not own a gun.. Perhaps its time to change that.


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## lsdrider (Jun 27, 2012)

For those considering pepper spray there are gel sprays that won't blow back on you or the horse. 

For those who live in states that don't "allow" you to carry a pistol, U-Haul: Your moving and storage resource


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## Mason72 (Jun 1, 2012)

its not the ones you see to be scared of its the ones you dont... sorry to make it scacier but for the most part they are ambush predators.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

The ones I come face to face with are the ones that make my sphincter pucker. Not knowing that they are there until after the fact isn't near the adrenaline rush.

A few times in my life have I actually come face to face with a cougar. But many times I have found trails in the snow or dirt behind me to let me know that a cat has been following me. They have always satisfied their curiosity and left me alone. But seeing their tracks in fresh snow or sand lets me know just how close they came.

I have really big hands. XXL in gloves









I've had one Grizzly bear charge me in Alaska. Other than that, the other predators that I have encountered have checked me out and moved on.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

You release your "bad ***" on it! LOL!

































Took me a while to find this, mom sent it to me when we moved out to the boonies and tried to convince me we needed mules and donkeys! Not for me, but this was really cool!


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## Mason72 (Jun 1, 2012)

Dang that is a BA MULE


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

That's why ranchers run burros with their cattle and sheep. Those little critters will do a number on cats and coyotes.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

They'll run Llamas with the sheep out here because they'll kill coyotes, don't know if they'll take on a cat or not. Advantage to Llamas over mules or burros is you can at least shave them along with the sheep.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

gunslinger said:


> The thing about pepper spray is the wind. You're likely to spray yourself, or your horse, then what's plan B?


Not only this, but wouldn't a blind mountain lion with a fantastic sense of smell be even more dangerous angry and blind? Or would they be more incliend to just run off?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

FlyGap said:


> You release your "bad ***" on it! LOL!


 I think I need to get me a mule for trail riding.


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## mind (Dec 14, 2011)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned bearbangers. 

For those not familiar with bearbangers, they're a noise making device similar to a shotgun shell that screws onto the end of a pen style launcher. After being fired the shell will travel 125-150ft and explode at 115dbs. I would expect bear bangers to be more effective than firing a gun, because the actual explosion occurs very close to the bear. Small, simple, cheap, and effective, I'd recommend them to anyone.

Pepper spray is a very effective deterrent; it's essential that there is no confusion over small canisters meant for protection in urban environments and bear canisters designed for use against large dangerous animals. People who are concerned about bear spray blowing back at themselves and their horse, I don't think are familiar with when its meant to be used. Bear spray is meant to be used against a charging animal at less than 25ft, it's a last ditch effort. I'll take the possibly of eye and nose irritation over inevitable teeth and claws. 

Mountain lions and black bears don't scare me, but grizzly bears and moose terrify me.


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## mind (Dec 14, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> Not only this, but wouldn't a blind mountain lion with a fantastic sense of smell be even more dangerous angry and blind? Or would they be more incliend to just run off?


Most often the animal would run off, but it's not a guarantee. Bear spray is a very powerful and user friendly deterrent, which is why it's been repeatedly shown to be more effective overall than firearms. The only guaranteed way to stop a charging animal is to kill it.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

mind said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned bearbangers.
> 
> For those not familiar with bearbangers, they're a noise making device similar to a shotgun shell that screws onto the end of a pen style launcher. After being fired the shell will travel 125-150ft and explode at 115dbs. I would expect bear bangers to be more effective than firing a gun, because the actual explosion occurs very close to the bear. Small, simple, cheap, and effective, I'd recommend them to anyone.
> 
> ...


 
While I agree pepper spray is a short range deterrent, a man with a knife can kill a man with a gun with less than 25ft between them. Bears run faster than a man so you better have that ****** out and firing before the bear hits 25 ft.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

mind said:


> Most often the animal would run off, but it's not a guarantee. Bear spray is a very powerful and user friendly deterrent, which is why it's been repeatedly shown to be more effective overall than firearms. The only guaranteed way to stop a charging animal is to kill it.


If a bear is charging, and you shoot it with a good solid shot, it may still kill you before it dies all the way.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

FlyGap said:


> You release your "bad ***" on it! LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*This is an urban legend folks! See here:

snopes.com: One Bad Mule* *

I can't believe the number of people who are worried about mountain lions. I would LOVE to see one in the wild. I've seen bear several times, but never a mountain lion.* *

There are A LOT of things you should worry about besides mountain lions, like car accidents and lightning. Lightning scares the crap out of me. But wildlife? Where's my camera? * *:lol:

I should also mention I was watching a TV program where they were trying to track mountain lions and putting radio collars on them. They could only tranquilize the cats in certain trees so they wouldn't fall to their death when they were drugged. How did they flush the cat from the tree so he would climb a different one? A guy would climb the tree to scare the cat out. I don't believe he was armed either. The cat would jump and run. 

Mountain lions are pretty shy if you turn aggressive. I have no doubt they will track you out of curiosity, but if you turn and holler and wave your arms I can't imagine one no backing down. Especially on horseback. I would treat it like a troublesome dog.....run towards it and make it turn tail and run. 
*


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Darrin said:


> While I agree pepper spray is a short range deterrent, a man with a knife can kill a man with a gun with less than 25ft between them. Bears run faster than a man so you better have that ****** out and firing before the bear hits 25 ft.


Just a word of advice Darrin, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.....

I realize that on occasion what you're saying might be true, but I wouldn't bet on it.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Don't worry about me bringing a knife to a gunfight. I'm the guy that will be sitting back at 300 yards poking holes in you with my rifle. I don't like up close and personal.

Acutally Mythbusters took this one on and it was quite interesting. In their test they had the gun holstered and it had to be pulled out, aimed and shot. Don't remember the exact distance but within 22 or 23 feet the knifeman can get that knife stuck in you. Outside that range the gunman would put a hurting on the knife wielder. I've heard for years there was a 25 foot range and Mythbusters proved that was correct.

Of course if the gun was out and aimed the knifeman wont make two steps.


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## mind (Dec 14, 2011)

Darrin said:


> While I agree pepper spray is a short range deterrent, a man with a knife can kill a man with a gun with less than 25ft between them. Bears run faster than a man so you better have that ****** out and firing before the bear hits 25 ft.


The bear spray I carry is listed as having an effective range of 25ft, the furthest I've seen is 35ft. I would have it out and prepared to fire at 100ft+, but firing too soon could be a fatal mistake. Bears are definitely much faster than any man though, probably faster than a horse on a tight trail too. 



Celeste said:


> If a bear is charging, and you shoot it with a good solid shot, it may still kill you before it dies all the way.


Yup, it takes an exceptionally well placed shot with a pretty powerful round to stop a charging bear in its tracks. If a bear were already relatively close and an immediate threat, I would prefer bear spray to a gun, because being just an average shot, I'd probably wouldn't make it.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

All this talk makes me glad to live in Georgia. The most terrifying animal that ever jumped on my horse while I was riding it was a grey squirrel. (He was frightened and panicked and landed right on the horse's butt.)


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

My first trip to Alaska, I talked to the Fish and Game officer and asked about defending myself from a Grizzly

He told me that they can run 35 mph, Have a heart rate of 14 bpm, He said I could shoot one thru the heart at 100 yards and the bear could run me down and maul me before he realized his heart had stopped working.

He instructions to me were that I needed to shoot to break serious bones. Spine, Shoulders. Something to slow the bear down so it could not run as fast. The nexct shots should be double 00 buck and be aimed for the nose and eyes, Effectively blinding and destroying any sense of smell so the bear could not find me, Then I was supposed to run.

The few black bears we shot over the years have never been hard to kill and you can usually shoo them away. But the grizzlies are a totally different game plan.

I've been fortunate that the few grizzlies we have seen in the wild, did not want to harm us. They were more interested in forging for food and leaving us alone.


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## starfia (Nov 13, 2010)

That's very scary, maybe you should report the sighting and then ask their advice. If he was that close to you he might not me scared of people - that can be a big issue! You are quite lucky to have seen one! I've never seen one in real life :/

But wow, you guys have so many random wild animals, cougars, bears! The most dangerous wild animal we have in England are drunk soccer fans. (All seriousness they cause a hell of a lot of trouble!)


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Celeste said:


> All this talk makes me glad to live in Georgia. The most terrifying animal that ever jumped on my horse while I was riding it was a grey squirrel. (He was frightened and panicked and landed right on the horse's butt.)


 
My horse and I were attacked by a Canadian goose once. In all seriousness, I'm glad this thread was started as a reminder that there are dangerous predators out there that we should be made aware of. Also, getting advice in how to deal with it is always helpful. I can not say I have any useful information because I do not have a very high occurrence of these types of animals in my parts. I know there are black bears out there, but in all my years of riding have never seen one when out riding (yes, I know that doesnt mean they aren't there). thanks OP


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

wetrain17 said:


> My horse and I were attacked by a Canadian goose once.


Too funny!!!!!!!


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## gtmochi (Mar 24, 2012)

Nothing relevant to say except - great googly-moogly am I glad there are no grizzly bears here in Los Angeles! Sheesh. Also, a sort-of lion update...my barn owners told me the other day that s/he was spotted on the other side of the mountain by another trail rider. So I guess my lion friend is getting around! And then I just read about one that's verified as living in Griffith Park here in LA - it's amazing - the cat possibly crossed the 405 to get there! Just in case you're interested: Mountain lion makes itself at home in Griffith Park - latimes.com


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## Chessie (Mar 13, 2012)

I'm not sure if someone pointed this out yet or not, but I believe you can have a starter pistol with you and it doesn't count as a restricted firearm. If you can't carry an airhorn, you might want to train your horse to get used to a starter pistol going off. You get the bang at least.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Tonights news had a story about some hunters becoming the hunted. Made me think of this thread. I had this happen in 2010 when I was elk hunting and just didn't have the video camera to take the video like these fellows did.

The point being the cougar checked them out for 20 minutes and moved on. Most cougars are not interested in getting in a fight with a human.
Have You Seen This? Hunters become hunted | ksl.com


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Wow, that gave me chills...


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Looked to me like he wasn't quite sure what those hunters were.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Exactly! That is what I thought when we had a cougar sneek up behind us. It was just curious and wanted to figure out what we were.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A woman claimed a wolf attacked her horse, broke it's front leg. Hate to burst her bubble but that was likely the result of the pasture pal delivering a kick to make it back off. Wolves head for the hind end in an attempt to hamstring the animal. Too risky trying to break a front leg in order to cripple the horse. Tell you southerns what, I'll take my black bear and huge moose and maybe a small cougar over your poisonous snakes any day.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Snakes generally leave you alone if you leave them alone.


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## GlassPlatypus (May 25, 2012)

All this talk about cougars reminded me of my (first ever!) camping trip last month.

I was alone, walking along a trail in the woods above my cabin at dusk. It was REALLY hard to see, since it was darker in the forest than outside of it. I looked to my left, and *thought* I detected movement in the trees about ten feet from me. Something light colored. 

I stood and stared at that spot for several minutes, but saw nothing after that. Finally I gave up and continued walking, but nervously kept looking behind me the whole time.

It could have been a deer, or even an elk. I had frightened an elk away from that area a few days before, but I clearly heard its hooves pounding as it ran off. With this, I heard absolutely nothing- not even a twig snapping- which is why I thought 'cougar'.

Of course, it could have been nothing, too as it was so dark in there that my eyes were having a hard time focusing. It could have just been my eyes playing tricks on me. I'll never know.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

gunslinger said:


> California has some strict carry laws, but as the old saying goes, "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6".
> 
> One of my goals is to get my horse used to gun fire. I don't really want to compete, but if I did, Cowboy action shooting would be my event.
> 
> Think we'll ever get it to be an Olympic event?


At the risk of starting a descent into another "guns on trail" thread...

In a state like CA (or my own NY) if you fire a gun, you will likely have the "book thrown at you." You will probably be violating carry laws, discharge laws and animal protection/hunting laws. I agree with the "carried by 6" rule, but I highly suggest finding a different alternative that involves less legal ramifications.

I do cowboy mounted shooting and regularly shoot pistols, rifles and shotguns off horses. Some things to consider...

- When I shoot, I do so in a controlled environment. Both I and the horse know what is going to happen in the marked arena when we cross the timer and engage the balloons. It is not a random "one off" shot in the middle of a trail ride. That loud random noise could be enough to make even an experienced horse flinch or crow hop. Which could get a rider dumped.

- When I shoot, I am excited about the competition, but I think that is a different adrenaline level than when looking at a hungry cat. My horse also does not have the scent of a predator. Of note - I was at a competition about a year ago where a bear made a kill about a mile away (in the woods). It was a windy day and the horses apparently caught the scent. Almost all the horses were pretty edgy all day and there were some near wrecks.

- A long gun (rifle or shotgun) may get around the handgun restrictions, but they are also considerably harder to operate from horseback. To use effectively - especially if you have to aim at an animal at a comfortable distance) you will need TWO hands on the weapon and your horse to stay completely still. This is a lot harder than you might think, especially under these circumstances. Even then, you are going to be in for a heap of trouble with the local authorities/game warden.

- I shoot both target (ground) and mounted. There is a big difference between live ammo and blanks. Blanks have no recoil. Drop a live .45 round in the chamber and there is a big kick. 


I'm not arguing against firearms as protection on trail. For those of us who shoot off and around our horse regularly, this may be a viable option. The less restrictive your local/state laws, the more viable it becomes.

I am a big proponent of shooting sports and mounted shooting in particular. I have a mounted shooting club and help introduce people into the sport. This experience has also taught me that not everyone is ready to ride with a gun (blanks or otherwise). There is no room for error when loaded with live ammo. It takes a steady hand, a level head and a lot of training.

The odds of most of us hitting a cat at a respectable distance while mounted is pretty slim. I am sure some of you can do it on a consistent basis and have nothing but respect for your skill. 

Since the majority of us will only be able to use the "noise" factor of a firearm, let me suggest this alternative. Get a starter pistol.

Small. Lot's of noise. Cheap ammo (.22 blanks). Avoid all the legal problems of a pistol license, carry laws and hunting laws (make sure it is legal in your area). Plus, you get to train you and your horse to gunfire, so you can get into something like cowboy mounted shooting somewhere down the line.

Whatever "scare" tactic you decide to use on trail, make sure you train your horse thoroughly and regularly. When in any panic situation you (and your horse) should be able to fall back on training without having to think about it.


It's like the old story - when in bear country you only need a .22 and a friend. If the bear attack, shoot your friend in the leg and run like heck. 

If your horse spooks on trail and you come off, he will run and you become the unfortunate friend.


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## vera (Jun 1, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

cat attacks would be scary. But .. realize that we have invaded thier territory. Yes i would be freaked and ****ed off if a big Cat came after me. i have ridden in the mtns and came across bear tracks larger than my hand and we had circled back to camp . My horse kept whinny ing the entire ride, and thinking back I bet that bear had been checking us out.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

My horse would have made a good lead mare in a wild herd.

I used to live in Colorado's Front Range, which is big lion country. I'd never seen one, though. There was one day when I took my horse out for a trail ride and as we were walking up a familiar trail we'd been up millions of times, she stopped dead and then tried to wheel around in the opposite direction. I tried to press her forward. She made it clear that she weighs 1200lbs and when she decides she's not going somewhere, there's nothing I can do about it. This is totally out of character, as she's generally a brave and cooperative creature. So I decided there must be something to it, turned around, and went out on a different trail without any bother. A couple days later, I learned that a mountain lion had been spotted further up the trail we had been walking up. Good girl!


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

People say that big cats are unlikely to actually attack you; however, they can and do occasionally attack. 

Mountain Lion Attacks Man, 63, in California - ABC News

List of Mountain Lion Attacks On People in California


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## TrailheadSupply (Sep 6, 2012)

I pull a pack string almost every weekend somewhere in the Bob Marshall wilderness and have come in contact with many bears both black and griz. Only seen a couple of cats. The topic of bear spray has come up.....remember it has a short range when fired and the wind needs to be right or you and your stock will be the ones sprayed. Pepper spray is a last chance defensive weapon. When that bear is running in at 30 mph and you are holding ground till he is 25' from you thats really only about 4 steps away.


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