# Bolting Problem



## Abby2010 (Mar 12, 2010)

I recently purchased an 11 yr old Thoroughbred mare who was taken off the track at 5yrs old and has been a broodmare since then. She is an amazing horse and has no issues, except one! when I try and ride her out of the ring she bolts and im unsure why? wondering if anyone could help me with this?


----------



## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

IME with ottbs that havent been properly retrained off the track they can tend to think everything is about GO GO GO  in a smaller environment this isnt possible but once out in the open they feel the need to do the only thing they know what to do which is run. 

how is she with listening to your commands for whoa in the ring?

i would start by lunging her out of the arena in an open space. work on getting her head set low and getting her relaxed with working outside the arena while understanding that she doesnt have to be going a hundred miles an hour all the time. lunge work is a great took with ottb's as it allows you to work through problems on the ground before continuing under saddle. work on voice commands as well. everything you do accompany it with a voice command. make it the same thing every time and use it without fail every time. voice commands are very helpful with ottb's i have found. 

there is a book called 'beyond the track by anna morgan ford' and it is a great tool for learning how to combat many problems commonly associated with ottb's.


----------



## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

Ohhh gosh... I know what your dealing with! I used to own a retired racehorse (About 10 years old) & she did so amazing in the round pen but out on the trail or in the feild all she wanted to do was GO!
Here are some things that helped me & my thoroughbred:
I highly suggest that you relax yourself completely while in the saddle. Try not to lean forward while riding her because that is how the jockeys ride & she knows that means run. Sit as deep as you can & really relax yourself. Remember, your horse can feel every move your make. If your tense, she'll be tense. If your calm, she'll be calm. She is looking to you for guidance & it is your job to show her the right way.
I do suggest working on your "whoa" cue. While in the arena, work on walking directly towards a fence & once u approach it, sit deep, say "whoa", & add rein pressure. Do this at all three gaits (Make sure your good at it at the walk before you go to the trot, then canter.).
While your outside the arena & have practiced the things above: Relax yourself to relax your horse. Also, when she goes into the canter without your cue, slow her down to a stop, back up, and continue on in the pace YOU want to go. If she canters again... repeat.
Consistancy. Consistancy. Consistancy.
Good luck. :wink:


----------



## Abby2010 (Mar 12, 2010)

Thank you both so much I will definately try the things mentioned. I do alot of lunge work with her and she is good with some of the commands: walk, trot, canter but not whoa, so I will try to work on that with her. The last thing I need is for me or her to get hurt!


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Why does everyone lung a horse for every problem?? She rides well in the ring and only when you are taking her OUT of the ring she has a problem. Is lunging going to help her?? Can't you work on her Whoa from the back , in the ring??
I deal with run aways, horse that don't stop, horses that run full out across a field until you bail off or risk running into a fence. Should I suggest to the person to lung the horse, teach it what Whoa means??/
Or do I just put a good western bite, one that any reining horse uses every day performing his wonderful manuvers in the ring, let the horse run and when I yell WHOA shut him down hard and fast, release all pressure when he stops, point him in a new direction , kick him into another run, yell WHOA and pull him up hard and fast.
I beleive in riding out a problem. If the horse bolts leaving the ring then I would bite the horse up and when she bolts pull her up hard and fast.

It deals with the problem, doesn't pussy foot around it. It is over in a matter of minutes.

Here agian I am assuming the person can ride???


----------



## Abby2010 (Mar 12, 2010)

Well now my bolting problem has tuned into a mounting and bolting problem? why is my 11 yr old mare acting like a 2 yr old? today i tried many times unsuccesfully to mount up and everytime I put my foot into the stirup she moves in a different direction away from me? i finnally managed to get up on her and she was fine what is all this about? ?? My horse has been perfectly fine over the last little while and had know isues its like all her training has been reversed and she is a baby again? has anyone had this happen to them?


----------



## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

I don't know if this will work in your situation, but whenever she moves away from you step off and make her back up. Do so sort of aggressively. Not like, screaming, but make sure she knows you're serious and you mean business. You could also try making her move sideways after, just to get the point. Maybe even, just quickly, go back to the old respect method by forcing her out of your space and keeping her out until you say so (->this just seems to work whenever my mare misbehaves-if not a smack. It's just a little wake-up call that reminds her: Oh, hey, ok you're in charge). I do agree that if you have a problem in the saddle (the bolting) fix it in the saddle. Obviously make sure she knows how to whoa, but I don't think lunging will help.


----------



## TwisterRush (Sep 8, 2009)

agree with ilytango, about the backing up method, and some of the above posters.

I do want to suggest, that when on the lunge, my OTTB, didn't resond to well to the 'whoa' when i had a lunge rope in my hand, so i decided to drop the whip, and try another method that english rider's use (which i am) i purred, to make him stop, he quickly changed transition's and went to a stop and joined up with me. 

It is worth a try..


----------



## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

jeesh, kinda funny. have a thread of my own that's got some of the same sort of stuff, sort of. however, i've got a suggestion or two.

when mounting, i've been taught, especially when in a snaffle, to pull their head around in toward you like you're flexing them. the OTTB that i'm working on right now had the same problem. i could NOT get on him. friend suggested i go back to pulling him around. i stick glued to his side next to the saddle and pull his head around. when he stops, i'll get a foot in the stirrup and he'll start turning again but doesn't take long to get him to stop again. usually. it might take ten minutes to get on but that's ok.

he tends to be ok when we ride, pasture or on the road until i let him open up any. another thread recently made me remember ya don't want to have CONSTANT pressure on the bit so we're working to keep a looser reign while not getting out of control. problem there is if he opens up to more than a SLOW lope he wants it ALL, and i have a helluva time stopping him again. and he sinks into the bit HARD. his mouth was rubbed raw today, and he has a wear spot on his nose from the hackamore (other than that, he responds well to the hack).





RiosDad said:


> Why does everyone lung a horse for every problem?? She rides well in the ring and only when you are taking her OUT of the ring she has a problem. Is lunging going to help her?? Can't you work on her Whoa from the back , in the ring??
> I deal with run aways, horse that don't stop, horses that run full out across a field until you bail off or risk running into a fence. Should I suggest to the person to lung the horse, teach it what Whoa means??/
> Or do I just put a good western bite, one that any reining horse uses every day performing his wonderful manuvers in the ring, let the horse run and when I yell WHOA shut him down hard and fast, release all pressure when he stops, point him in a new direction , kick him into another run, yell WHOA and pull him up hard and fast.
> I beleive in riding out a problem. If the horse bolts leaving the ring then I would bite the horse up and when she bolts pull her up hard and fast.
> ...


sir, this is why my brother said to have my wife STOP lunging her horse. i ride him now instead. but are you suggesting putting something like a curb on him and letting him run and shut 'er down in fast fashion? because we can do that, too. only other question is how fast do i let 'im go before putting on the brakes?


----------



## Danjones (Mar 17, 2010)

i have found that when u work with a horse off the track u need to baisically retrain them i suggest clinton andersons ground work routine (clinton andersons downunder horsemanship(book)) it takes about a month but is well worth it i did this with a friends thuroubred that she bought staright from the track and she could not control the mare and couldnt mount without help and if u can get in the saddle take her somewhere she loves to run and make her stand in one spot for about ten min the move do this several times a day everyday and she will start to relax, walk slow and stand still while you mount another problem i found is if the girth is too tight or not tight enough she will try to keep you off her back


----------



## Danjones (Mar 17, 2010)

also if your feed contains alot of barly this could contribute to the problem as barly is a hot feed and releases energy for hours


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

spence said:


> sir, this is why my brother said to have my wife STOP lunging her horse. i ride him now instead. but are you suggesting putting something like a curb on him and letting him run and shut 'er down in fast fashion? because we can do that, too. only other question is how fast do i let 'im go before putting on the brakes?


Yes I am suggesting a curb. I see nothing wrong with a curb and 50% of the horses ride in them all the time.
You do not have to let the horse bolt. Just be ready for that first jump and then hit hard. I assume as you leave the ring the horse suddenly jumps forward, bolting?? The first jump the horse makes shut him down hard, as the lung pull back harshly yell NO in a loud angry voice and then release all pressure.
The horse will catch on quickly that you will not tolerate this bolt and after a few sessions you can go back to whatever bit you were using in the first place.,
In this case do NOT let the horse just run, correct it immediatley.

Just to be absolutely clear. I would get a tom thumb, which is a jointed mouth piece with curb shanks. Use a curb chain and do it fairly tight. Then ride the horse as normal in the arena getting both of you use to the curb and when you feel confident in it and you will find it gives alot more control. When you feel confident get someone to open the arena gate/door and ride out as usual. At the first jump pull back hard while yelling NO and shut the horse down fast and then release all pressure, take a little walk around outside, ride back into the arena, a few rounds in the arena and then again ride outside being prepared. If the horse doesn't bolt this time ride a bit outside, praising the horse , keeping the hands gentle.
This will break the horse of the bolting habit quickly. Once the horse knows you are in command they give up the nonsense.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Danjones said:


> also if your feed contains alot of barly this could contribute to the problem as barly is a hot feed and releases energy for hours


Do horse feeds contain barley?? It is not grown alot where I live. Corn is grown and used in horse feed. While corn is considered a hot feed it actually helps a horse run cooler then oats.


----------



## FlyinSoLow (Jan 5, 2010)

RiosDad said:


> The first jump the horse makes shut him down hard, as the lung pull back harshly yell NO in a loud angry voice and then release all pressure.
> The horse will catch on quickly that you will not tolerate this bolt and after a few sessions you can go back to whatever bit you were using in the first place.,
> In this case do NOT let the horse just run, correct it immediatley.


 
Just wondering, what would you suggest when the horse starts bolting through a leverage/curb bit? Longer shanks perhaps? :-|


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

FlyinSoLow said:


> Just wondering, what would you suggest when the horse starts bolting through a leverage/curb bit? Longer shanks perhaps? :-|


I have never had a horse run through a bit but I know it happens. That is why people ask me to ride a problem horse. But I find most of those people with the problems insist on using a snaffle?? They would even sell their beloved pet before they would put in a curb??
Why do they have this mentality??
I take your question as sarcasm??
Do you have that much experience that you see a problem??
A person use to riding a horse in a snaffle will suddenly find they have far more control in even a simple tom thumb.
If you have a problem with even trying a simple curb then don't. Keep your problem or sell the horse.
I may be old, I may be narrow minded but I am not afraid to try .


----------



## FlyinSoLow (Jan 5, 2010)

RiosDad said:


> I have never had a horse run through a bit but I know it happens. That is why people ask me to ride a problem horse. But I find most of those people with the problems insist on using a snaffle?? They would even sell their beloved pet before they would put in a curb??
> Why do they have this mentality??
> I take your question as sarcasm??
> Do you have that much experience that you see a problem??
> ...


No, no sarcasm at all.
I was just wondering what you would do is all.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

FlyinSoLow said:


> No, no sarcasm at all.
> I was just wondering what you would do is all.


I have never had it happen. I ride all the time with soft hands, no contact. I ride with my legs, my voice and a suggestiion with HEAVY reins. I hate light weight reins. I feel heavy reins signal you intent before you actually take up the slack. For neck reining the horse feels a heavy rein easier. For direct reining the simple act of moving the directing hand signals the horse. So I will use nothing but 3/4 inch reins.
While I can ride bitless, snaffle or anything else I ride alot with a curb, a tom thumb at that.
I recently switched to a Billy allen pelham and switch back and forth from snaffle to curb depending on the conditions I am riding in and the horse energy level. 
Too often I have seen people who insist on nothing but a snaffle end up selling the horse because they couldn't handle the horse, it ran all over them. My suggest is TRY a curb, a tom thumb and just see if it helps.
I do not see a problem with trying something new, something with more stop to it. Keep your hands gentle but have something that you can use if the horse acts up.
A cheap Tom thumb is only about $30. A cheap experiment.
Even run aways I have never had one run through a bit, a curb bit that is.
For the ultimate run away, use your back, your legs and a good pair of reins, Yell WHOA and then use everything you got to haul the horse down as violently as you can. Repeat the run, again WHOA and hit the horse with everything you have. You won't need to do it a 3rd time.
Again this is not for the poster but for the extreme run away.


----------



## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

RiosDad, i like your methods. simple for my simple mind to comprehend. i've actually ridden him a couple times in a regular curb, but it didn't seem to make much difference, however i'm trying new things a lot. hopefully this works better than some other stuff.

we don't have an arena/round pen, mostly just open. where we live has about 8 acres to it with a couple ponds and about a half mile to the main road and 200 acres or so to work with (more, but i have to open gates to access it), as well as however many miles of road i wish.

i've been trying to ride him with a looser reign so there's not that constant, heavy pressure on his mouth and when he tries to pick up a trot/lope from a walk without a cue from me i've just slowed him back down to a walk. that's where you're idea will come in the best.

another question on that. if we're riding faster than a walk, say trotting and he decides he wants to lope without additional cues from me, will the same concept work for that as well? shut him down fast and then try again? i took him out for a nice jaunt yesterday (about 8 miles total), and he's not bad trotting along (i can actually trot this horse nicely, he's the one who taught me to post. last week.), but he likes to speed up. i had him loping for a while and given much reign at all he wants to gallop his little heart out. i hauled his *** hard enough that his mouth was pretty sore when we got home.


----------



## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

You know, everybody has their own method of what should be done. I would never critisize someones method. If it works/worked for them, let them share that information with us without feeling they are wrong. It is up to the person with the question to make the decision if they want to take the help or not. This is a huge pet peeve of mine. Make sure the horse is used to the bit he/she was using. Any tack can be a factor. The other thing I agree with is to do the one rein stop. Even when getting on your horse, pull the face toward you until he/she stops moving and then get on. Maybe when you take your horse out of the ring, as soon as you feel her want to bolt, pull her head to one side and make her feet move both ways then start out again. Each time she wants to bolt pull her head in and make her move. Being a racehorse, used to go,go,go, this may take her sometime to want to slow down. If you stay consistent she will eventually learn not to bolt. But it will take time. Be patient. Good Luck. And those of you that want to critisize how someone finds a way to help, please don't shut them down. What works for you is great, and what works for them is fine too.


----------



## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I would never suggest a harsh bit, I would stay with the snaffle until he gets what you're asking. All you will do by riding him in a harsh bit/curb bit is frustrate him. 

I would invest in a trainer if you want to commit to this horse, it doesn't seem like you know how to handle the situation which could turn into something more dangerous. 

"tries to pick up a trot/lope from a walk without a cue from me" 
Are you sure you're being confident and clear when you're asking? 

"i hauled his *** hard enough that his mouth was pretty sore when we got home."
I REALLY hope I read this wrong.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

spence said:


> RiosDad,
> , say trotting and he decides he wants to lope without additional cues from me, will the same concept work for that as well? shut him down fast and then try again? .


Don't lope him for a while. If you have unlimited roads just get out, walk some, not too much and trot. A nice easy trot mile after mile.
I teach the word WALK. If we are trotting I say the word WALK and he instantly drops to a walk, if not I would pull him up sharply and repeat WALK. They catch on quickly to this command.
I use it every time I drop from the lope or trot to a walk, no reins, just verbal.
Agian I would not lope the horse, I would spend time walking and trotting, establiishing a nice trot on loose rein. If the hores speeds up the trot and you want a slower trot I use the word EASY and guide with a gentle pull from the fast trot to a more relaxed easy going trot while saying EASY.
The full bute pull is only ONLY when he bolts, not to slow his trot down, that is an easier pull, the word EASY at the same time.
I will spend months teaching the horse to move at a nice working trot, NEVER allowing him to break into a canter.

So get a curb and I prefer the jointed mouth piece, a curb chain and go from there. Try to keep no NO contact but correct quickly if the horse takes off, pull gentley to pull the trot down to a more reason trot and harshly if he suddenly bolts and firm NO.
Leave the canter out of it until you master the trot.
Long miles of trotting will take the energy out of him , releave the boredom of the walk and prevent hemmeroids.
Learn to trot before you run.:lol:

*He said to me.... Why are married women heavier than single women?*



*I said to him . . . Single women come home, see what's in the fridge and go to bed. Married women come home, see what's in bed and go to the fridge*


----------



## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I agree with White Foot. I did just post something but lost it. I would never yank on a horses mouth. Your just introducing pain to training. You may end up with more problems than you want. A snaffle bit is the gentlest bit and no amount of harshness is going to work on an animal if they really dont want to do what you want. Being consistent, firm, and gentle is best. Try the give and take method. As soon as your horse goes a little faster than you want tug on the reins just enough for them to slow down and release. Everytime he/she trys to go faster tug and release as soon as you get the desired pace. I knew someone who yanked on their horses mouth so much so hard that their horses mouth bled. Thats not right. I hope this helps. Good luck.


----------



## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Well, again it's kind of hard to tell you what to do when we're not actually seeing the horse in person. There could be a lot of different reason's for why your horse could be bolting. 

Different methods have worked for me.
I had one gelding who, soon as I was halfway over his back, and running around like a freaking lunatic. I'd keep his head bent, inside rein, outside leg, check him in, but he just fought. His bolting was fear induced.
I "gave in" one day. Jumped and and let him run. And he ran. And ran. I mean a full out gallop for about ten minutes. He stopped, gave him a breather, and then continued the lesson I wanted to teach him, albeit for a much shorter time. 
It took about a week, by the end of it he wasn't running anywhere. He had it figured out that he could run his little heart out, but in the end I wasn't going anywhere and he still had work to do after. I let him figure it out on his own that really, running away like that just used a crapload of energy and didn't get him anywhere.

Another gelidng like to do it simply because he was a jack-a$$. He didn't like to be told what to do, and liked to try and take matter's into his own hands, so to speak. I'd mount, or begin too, and he's start to leave or hump up and buck as soon as I was seated. As someone else suggest, flexing him toward's the inside kept him from running, so we'd spin circles until he got dizzy enough to stop, then I'd mount. Give him rein, he behaved, he kept it. He humped up or decided to take off, it got snapped back around and we spun, and yeah, I wasn't feeling bad about putting him in place with a rein to the *** as he'd just as soon put me in my place, which to him would the dirt. 

I won't say lunging doesn't work; it's a great tool to enable your horse to really pick up on your cues and signals and get in tune with you. But boy, it can be over done. And just like people, horses get bored of doing the same thing over and over and over and they'll rebel. Anything with a thinking mind is going too, eventually.

I also agree with RiosDad that a curb bit in a horse trained and ready for it can be a great step in the right direction. My only problem with that is that although the horse is ready for the curb, the rider isn't. I've seen SO many people ride a curb like a snaffle, have no idea how the bit actually works, and thus, we end up with a mouth problems, be it wounds or hardness where horses will run through any sort of bit. I've seen a lot of educated horses get rode by un-educated people and then problems can start happening left, right, and centre. 

As someone else suggested, working with a trainer and getting some on hands help is something definitely worth considering.

How long have you had this mare? It sounds like, now, she's getting more and more comfortable and pushing your boundaries to see how far she can get. Now, I'm not one for animal abuse in any shape or form, but sometimes good ol' DISCIPLINE is needed. 
It's like a kid who hits you softly and you let it go and go without punishment until one day he offs and pops you a good one in the face because he was never really taught no. You know? She pushes your boundaries, you need to make it clear that that is not acceptable or you'll end up with a spoiled rotten brat on your hands (YES, this is also from experiance!) that will be a little h*ll raiser! lol 

Regardless, I hope you can take from what someone has said on here and find a solution to help you and your mare!


----------



## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

White Foot said:


> "tries to pick up a trot/lope from a walk without a cue from me"
> Are you sure you're being confident and clear when you're asking?
> 
> "i hauled his *** hard enough that his mouth was pretty sore when we got home."
> I REALLY hope I read this wrong.


i suppose i should rephrase a bit. he's an old racehorse, he wants to run. that's what we're trying to work through. *I* made the mistake in letting him lope for most of a few miles. sad thing is i should have known better. in terms of "hauling" on him is simply working to slow him back down. i am more than comfortable with one reign stops, but on an open road with ditches i'd much prefer to have him slowed down some BEFORE i were to do that.

riosdad - my wife had someone tell her that we should spend a LOT of time trotting and after our experiences recently, i'm going to take the suggestion and trot a LOT. and i like his trot, it's easy to sit (my little appy, not at all. it's like riding a jackhammer).

i come here to ask certain questions, and will continue to do so if those who are more experienced will answer with something other than "get a trainer." i don't have one on hire, however i speak to others in regards to this horse outside of this forum as well. a good friend of mine has lived with and trained horses all of his life. however, i cannot always get ahold of him due to different schedules. he was the first one to suggest a curb, however i'm starting to think a tom thumb might be more effective.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

spence said:


> riosdad - my wife had someone tell her that we should spend a LOT of time trotting and after our experiences recently, i'm going to take the suggestion and trot a LOT. and i like his trot, it's easy to sit (my little appy, not at all. it's like riding a jackhammer).
> 
> "get a trainer." .


the trot is a nice way to travel. It keeps the horse calm, gives both of you a workout without putting your butt to sleep. It is also more controlable. It builds a horse. I spend years trotting my endurance horses. I do lope eventually but not for months down the road. I then teach leads, easy slow lopes over say 1/4 mile just to work the leads and teach him to settle down into the work. 
Try the trotting


----------



## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

will do. really appreciate the help!


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ Just a note, a tom thumb is a curb - Just one with a jointed mouthpiece. A curb is any bit with leverage (I.e. Shanks).


----------



## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

I also suggest if just simply forgetting about the lope isn't working then circles will be your friend. Find a flat area, a field, a ring, etc. Whatever you have available. If he's going the pace you want then you just mosey along, if he speeds up you circle. Not so tiny he gets frustrated, and not so big that he doesn't have to slow down. A nice 15-20 meter circle will make him naturally rate his pace. Keep him on the circle til he relaxes and holds the pace you want. Then you let him go straight again. Repeat the circles every time he picks up the pace. Eventually he will realize that it's more work to go faster and he will learn to maintain YOUR pace or he will have to do all this extra work.

Also, any time you're trying to shut down an OTTB steady pressure on the reins means go faster for them. You need to pulley rein and/or do short hard tugs alternating sides to break the "grab the bit and go" mentality.


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> I have never had a horse run through a bit but I know it happens. That is why people ask me to ride a problem horse. But I find most of those people with the problems insist on using a snaffle?? They would even sell their beloved pet before they would put in a curb??
> Why do they have this mentality??
> A person use to riding a horse in a snaffle will suddenly find they have far more control in even a simple tom thumb.


I've actually fixed a bolter (as in a 'real' bolter, not just something that spooks and scoots, but a horse that would lose its brain and would run into a brick wall before it would stop, bolter) by taking off the elephant gear (twisted wire snaffle on a six-inch shank, with a curb chain AND a wire over his nose). 

I've also fixed several runaways for clients, again by taking off all the crap hardware and teaching them how to 'ride'.

And yes, I'm someone who insists horses go properly in a snaffle or french link, first and foremost. If they won't go properly in that, then it's my job to figure out why and fix it. 

Using the bit as the brakes is poor training, imo, and only serves to teach the horse how to brace and evade contact.

The curb bit definitely has a purpose and a place in riding, but not as a tool to teach the horse to stop.


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

spence said:


> i suppose i should rephrase a bit. he's an old racehorse, he wants to run. that's what we're trying to work through. *I* made the mistake in letting him lope for most of a few miles. sad thing is i should have known better. in terms of "hauling" on him is simply working to slow him back down. i am more than comfortable with one reign stops, but on an open road with ditches i'd much prefer to have him slowed down some BEFORE i were to do that.


You're having an issue because you don't know how racehorses are trained. They are trained to take the bit, lean on it, and run with it. To become good riding horses they have to be retrained to learn to 'accept' contact and give to it. 

Putting something bigger and badder in their mouth often exasperates the issue.

One of the ways you can help yourself is to use a flash with a french link (go that way instead of a snaffle to avoid the nutcracker effect), which is meant to keep the bit right in the bit seat. Without it, the horse can slide the bit in their mouth every so slightly, get a real good hold of it, lock it, and you're s.o.l. With the flash, they can't move it out of the bit seat and therefore can't grab it and lock it on you. The idea here is to train in it, fix the issue for good, and then take it off.


----------



## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

lol, well, truth be told, i DO live in QH country and there ain't much racing around here. much less in my real realm of interest. so now, until a few days ago i did NOT know that pull the bit means go. however, since it's been said here, it now make a bunch of sense because i can SEE how he's done that, numerous times.

i have at times thought of trying other bits, but our repertoire of bits is rather small and we're on a tight budget right now (school sucks). however, this thread is bookmarked with all the good info in it, and it'll be considered. unless i pass by one that a heck of a price.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> Using the bit as the brakes is poor training, imo, and only serves to teach the horse how to brace and evade contact.
> 
> .


If bits are so bad why don't we all go bitless? I was content in side pulls for over 20 years.
Very few horses on this forum will stop with a simple shift of weight and a verbal command. Mine will but he is not the norm.
Bits have their place and 99% of riders depend on them.
I find too many people riding in snaffles with problems with horses running through them. The girl cleaning our stalls weekends just had a bad accident. Her little arab mare took off running throught the bush at full speed and nothing she could do would get her to slow down so she bailed.
I asked her what bit she was using?? She was riding bitless. I have no sympathy for her.

As for training the people?? I don't have patients enough to deal with people. I much prefer the animals.

I have never owned a person horse that couldn't be ridden bitless or ever ran away with me.


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> If bits are so bad why don't we all go bitless? I was content in side pulls for over 20 years.


I never said bits were bad. I said using them as 'brakes' was bad.



> Very few horses on this forum will stop with a simple shift of weight and a verbal command.


I have no idea if that is a true statement or not. It's probably fairly accurate, but that's got nothing to do with the horse, or the bit. That's a training and or riding issue.



> Bits have their place and 99% of riders depend on them.


I didn't say bits didn't have their place. Again, don't know how accurate your 99% statement is...I think you're over estimating by a fair bit and I'd go with a figure closer to 75-80%. Again though, not a horse problem, or a bit problem, but a training/riding problem.



> I find too many people riding in snaffles with problems with horses running through them. The girl cleaning our stalls weekends just had a bad accident. Her little arab mare took off running throught the bush at full speed and nothing she could do would get her to slow down so she bailed.
> I asked her what bit she was using?? She was riding bitless. I have no sympathy for her.


Again, the snaffle bit is not the problem. It's a training and riding problem, possibly also in this case a bit of a management problem. Put a bigger, badder bit in the horse's mouth doesn't solve the CAUSE of the problem and often times ADDS to the problem.



> As for training the people?? I don't have patients enough to deal with people. I much prefer the animals.


Well, I don't disagree with you there, but why should the horse suffer? The horse should have to put up with a more severe bit in it's mouth with an uneducated rider at the other end? No thank you...because I actually really do prefer the animals, so my goal is to try and make their life better and for them to be better understood by the people. That means, I have to work with the people to obtain my primary goal.



> I have never owned a person horse that couldn't be ridden bitless or ever ran away with me.


And you've also never worked with the horse's I have, or we'd have shown you just how quickly and easily it can happen. :wink:


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

RiosDad said:


> Very few horses on this forum will stop with a simple shift of weight and a verbal command. Mine will but he is not the norm.
> Bits have their place and 99% of riders depend on them.
> I find too many people riding in snaffles with problems with horses running through them. The girl cleaning our stalls weekends just had a bad accident. Her little arab mare took off running throught the bush at full speed and nothing she could do would get her to slow down so she bailed.
> I asked her what bit she was using?? She was riding bitless. I have no sympathy for her.
> ...


 
99% of riders depend on bits? Very few horses on this forum will stop 
with a simple weight shift? How do you know?

Why do you generalize and feel your way is the only way? 

Mercedes is absolutely correct. The bit is not a brake. The bit is used to finesse cues. Watch a reiner or dressage rider. They shift weight and flick a finger for the most fantastic response.


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

spence said:


> lol, well, truth be told, i DO live in QH country and there ain't much racing around here. much less in my real realm of interest. so now, until a few days ago i did NOT know that pull the bit means go. however, since it's been said here, it now make a bunch of sense because i can SEE how he's done that, numerous times.


It's all good. We can only know that which we've been taught. 

Understanding why something is happening is the key to being able to resolve the issue. If you don't know why, you can't know how.

Good luck, keeps us posted on your progress.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> And you've also never worked with the horse's I have, or we'd have shown you just how quickly and easily it can happen. :wink:


I have ridden some really runaways but they were not mine. I was just riding out a problem. Something I actually enjoy.
I also enjoy barn sour horses. Again they are easy to fix for me.
I spend alot of Sunday mornings at a rental stable tuning up problems that cropped up over the week. again something I enjoyed.


----------



## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> *If bits are so bad why don't we all go bitless?* I was content in side pulls for over 20 years.
> Very few horses on this forum will stop with a simple shift of weight and a verbal command. Mine will but he is not the norm.
> *Bits have their place and 99% of riders depend on them.*
> I find too many people riding in snaffles with problems with horses running through them. The girl cleaning our stalls weekends just had a bad accident. Her little arab mare took off running throught the bush at full speed and nothing she could do would get her to slow down so she bailed.
> ...


It isn't bits that are bad, it's the hands attached to them that can be, hence the need to educate the rider on correct hands and use of bits. No matter how well educated the horse is that bit pressure means stop, continual riding by someone who is constantly bumping the mouth with their hands constantly will dull that cue. The horse learns that random bit pressure is just part of life, and starts to tune it out, making a bigger problem when the rider truly needs that cue to work flawlessly. 

I see this a lot with the little kids in my 4-H club. They hang on the horse's head, leading the horse and in the saddle, and the horses have no stop because the pressure is meaningless. The kids ride in a variety of bits, curbs and snaffles, some in halters. I can tune the horse up for them, but within a week of hanging and pulling the horse is dull again, not responding to the rider. Fortunately most of these are not in the habit of spontaneously bolting. I have seen the kids half-dragged around quite a bit, and I'm just waiting for one to really go for it.

Bits certainly do have their place, but IMHO the majority of recreational riders (certainly not you Rios, nor many others on this forum) lack in knowledge of the general mechanics of snaffle vs. curb. Shoot, I'm still learning, and will be for many years to come. If the rider *must* depend solely on the bit to stop the horse every time (the "kick to go, pull to stop, now you're an expert" crowd), bolting or otherwise, it's a rider education problem. The horse mirrors the rider. Curbs can be great bits, and a _potential_ help in a bolting situation of used right, but if the thing is used incorrectly in a non-bolt situation, when the horse does bolt the response to the curb is at least diminished. 

In my humble and minimally experienced opinion, the best solution to a chronic bolter is education of the horse, by a pro if need be, and education of the rider on a vice-free horse, and eventually on the "fixed" bolter, of how to maintain the "no bolt" training, whatever that has been. 

Personally, my guy does stop off of a weight shift and verbal whoa, on draped reins or on our learning attempt at elastic rein contact, but if he were truly bolting with me my hands would be in his mouth in a heartbeat to stop his butt however I can get the job done.

EDIT: Wow! Lots of posts while I was writing this novel!


----------



## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I agree with Mercedes myself. I am sorry you dont have the patience for the rider. To me that's sad. You can take a absolute "spook free", "bombproof", horse and put an uneducated rider on and I can guarantee this horse will be ruined. Putting a horse into training is great but not training the rider along with teaches nothing. Wasted money and time. Riosdad, its great you can work with some nasty habits in horses but the owners/riders will only waste your energy if they dont know what you did to try to correct the habit/problem. Also, if the rider is not confident enough to work thru the problem or is anticipating a problem, a horse can certainly pick up on that. I honestly think before riding out on trails, taking this horse out of the arena (safe zone), spence needs to go back to basics and retrain herself and work with the problem safely. Or as someone suggested, a trainer. Only if spence feels unconfident. But be there for the training. Just my opinion.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

mls said:


> 99% of riders depend on bits? Very few horses on this forum will stop
> with a simple weight shift? How do you know?
> 
> Why do you generalize and feel your way is the only way?
> ...


If I think back over the last 25 years. I spend 12 years at a 40 horse boarding facilities. When no one was around I would crank the music up, take the horse and with absolutely nothing on the horse I would start to lope cirlce alternating every 5 minutes by doing a flying change in the center. My hands were either on the mane, on my hips or in the air like I was flying but no string, no nothing, only my legs, my voice and I would love the feeling.
Not another horse at that barn could be ridden like that, not one I can remeber would stop with a simple weight shift or verbal command
That makes my horse 1 in 40
At the next boarding barn it was 25 horses. Again my guy was the only one that could be totally ridden bridless. The only one that could give you a good reliable stop without anything on the horse.
'That makes it 1 in 25
So yes I am out in my figuring but it still makes it 1 in 65, an accurate guess.
At my present barn no one can make good stops, reliable stops without touching the reins.
Experience has shown me that not many actually train to the point that the bit is not needed.
They all stop the same way, pulling on the bit. 
Are you saying that a dressage rider doesn't increase the tension on the bit?? They stop with a weight shift and a verbal command??? I don't think so.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

mls said:


> . They shift weight and flick a finger for the most fantastic response.


flicking the finger on a rein is not new, it is something used every day by a good rider but it is still a cue given to the bit same as direct reining. A flick of the little finger is all it takes to turn a horse that is taught properly. I agree it is not the force but the training.
I will further generalize and say that the majority of people here can not train to the level that a flick of a finger is all it takes.


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> So yes I am out in my figuring but it still makes it 1 in 65, an accurate guess.
> At my present barn no one can make good stops, reliable stops without touching the reins.
> Experience has shown me that not many actually train to the point that the bit is not needed.
> They all stop the same way, pulling on the bit.


But 65 horses isn't even 1% of 1% of 1%.

Regardless, I agree that the percentage is quite high, but none of that makes the issue at hand a 'bit' problem. Nor does it mean just because that's how people do it, that it's how it should be done. Many of those people could be shown and taught how to stop w/o the use of the bit.



> Are you saying that a dressage rider doesn't increase the tension on the bit?? They stop with a weight shift and a verbal command??? I don't think so.


Umm...yes, they do stop by shifting their weight. Your concept of what is happening with the tauter rein in dressage is mistaken.

It is the 'release' of the tension that executes the halt (along with the seat and leg aids), NOT the tension on the bit....that is merely the cue to say...'Hey! I'm going to be asking you to do something shortly so pay attention.'


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Scoutrider said:


> It isn't bits that are bad, it's the hands attached to them that can be, hence the need to educate the rider on correct hands and use of bits. No matter how well educated the horse is that bit pressure means stop, continual riding by someone who is constantly bumping the mouth with their hands constantly will dull that cue. The horse learns that random bit pressure is just part of life, and starts to tune it out, making a bigger problem when the rider truly needs that cue to work flawlessly.
> 
> I see this a lot with the little kids in my 4-H club. They hang on the horse's head, leading the horse and in the saddle, and the horses have no stop because the pressure is meaningless. The kids ride in a variety of bits, curbs and snaffles, some in halters. I can tune the horse up for them, but within a week of hanging and pulling the horse is dull again, not responding to the rider. Fortunately most of these are not in the habit of spontaneously bolting. I have seen the kids half-dragged around quite a bit, and I'm just waiting for one to really go for it.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything scoutrider.. It is the people not the horse that has the problem. I ride with 2 really nice older ladies, gentle as all get out but they haven't a clue. They watch me, comment on my way of going, my complete lack of contact meanwhile they hang on with their death grip on the reins and no amount of talking from me will change them so why bother. I enjoy the ride my way, they enjoy their way.
I do school my guy every ride , they finished schooling the day they bought their horses.

It's all what you want out of a horse. I want perfection, they want to just ride. Who's right???


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> They watch me, comment on my way of going, my complete lack of contact meanwhile they hang on with their death grip on the reins and no amount of talking from me will change them so why bother.


That's a complete misconception. You DO have contact even though the rein is looped. As long as the energy created by the haunches is cycled through the horse to the mouth and back again, there IS contact, regardless of the length of rein.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> . Many of those people could be shown and taught how to stop w/o the use of the bit.
> 
> '


They don't care. They don't want perfection, they just want to go for a ride with their friends and don't want you to teach them anything.
They just want me to stop the horse, to teach the horse what the word WHOA means and they don't care about taking lessons, which I am also not crazy about. They have a run away, one that bolts and runs off with them and they want me to stop it. so I do.

I had a follow up on a mare I taught to stop hard and fast. Years later I talked to the owner, the horse was at a rental place and the owner said the only complaint they had with the horse was she stopped too good. EVery novice is use to saying Whoa all the time, no matter what and she stopped??? Dam


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> That's a complete misconception. You DO have contact even though the rein is looped. As long as the energy created by the haunches is cycled through the horse to the mouth and back again, there IS contact, regardless of the length of rein.


My contact is through the weight of the rein. I ride in good quality 3/4 inch 7 foot reins and the contact is the shift in weight, not the actualy direct connection. Don't know enough about the energy created by the haunches cycling anywhere?? Not my field of expertize but if I want my horse to act like it is loping up hill all the time just a verbal reminder by me puts my guy back on his hind end. Is that creating energy in the haunches???


----------



## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Why would you put all that effort and time into a persons animal if they dont want the training themselves. Makes no sense. I understand you like the challenge. I guess its up to you if you waste your time on someone who wants a quick fix for that day. I would be p'od if someone asked me to "fix" the problem and after I "fixed" the problem, they wrecked it the very next day because they didnt "care".


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> My contact is through the weight of the rein. I ride in good quality 3/4 inch 7 foot reins and the contact is the shift in weight, not the actualy direct connection. Don't know enough about the energy created by the haunches cycling anywhere?? Not my field of expertize but if I want my horse to act like it is loping up hill all the time just a verbal reminder by me puts my guy back on his hind end. Is that creating energy in the haunches???


Yes, you DO have a direct connection. Have you never seen a picture of a horse doing piaffe or levade on a looped rein? Wait, let me see if I've got one...

Yes, here's a picture taken by a photographer friend of mine, SKA. This is the most collected movement a horse can perform. It's called a levade. Note the looped rein. I guarantee there is a DIRECT connection despite the looped rein. If there wasn't, the movement could not be performed.

It is not the weight of the rein that creates this, it is the highest level of engagement, and that energy created by the haunches coming through the horse, to the mouth, being captured by the connection and then sent back to the haunches to continue.

And yes, if your horse engages that energy has to come forward. In some instances the energy is lost out the ribcage, out a shoulder, out the jaw, etc...

The book, Dancing With Horses by Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling shows him riding w/o saddle and doing passage and piaffe on a looped rein.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

mbender said:


> Why would you put all that effort and time into a persons animal if they dont want the training themselves. Makes no sense. I understand you like the challenge. I guess its up to you if you waste your time on someone who wants a quick fix for that day. I would be p'od if someone asked me to "fix" the problem and after I "fixed" the problem, they wrecked it the very next day because they didnt "care".


If someone says to me I have this Barn Sour horse I can't do anything with, will you ride it?? I love it. I love riding challenges. I love being able to take a problem and ride right through it almost instantly. It is an addreline rush. To ride a bucker, a bolter, anything is different, a challenge, one I enjoy so I do it.
A lady paid me for one hour every Wednesday night to take her Rocky mountain horse for a ride, she couldn't ride her, I love it. I should have been paying her for the privilege.
I have saved horses from the meat market by a simple ride and I love that too.
I love riding, I am an addict and an added rush is worth the risk to me.
I have seen girls fightened stiff to crawl on a new horse and I always take pitty on them and ask if I could have the privilege of being first to ride the horse? Please. I see the relief on their faces and they always say YES.
I would rather a horse bucked me off then hurt one of them.
Must be a male thing:lol::lol:


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

RiosDad said:


> Are you saying that a dressage rider doesn't increase the tension on the bit?? They stop with a weight shift and a verbal command??? I don't think so.


Oh I know so.

I would invite you to take a few dressage lessons before you jump to conclusions about how we ride. Dressage is a wonderful tool for cross training and conditioning. My endurance horses came a long way in stamina, balance and collection. It now crosses over with my working cow horses.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

mls said:


> Oh I know so.
> 
> I would invite you to take a few dressage lessons before you jump to conclusions about how we ride. Dressage is a wonderful tool for cross training and conditioning. My endurance horses came a long way in stamina, balance and collection. It now crosses over with my working cow horses.


I'm not in the least bit interested in taking a dressage lesson. I have often sat on the side lines and watched my 2 riding partners taking a lesson. It doesn't intest me in the least. I also live right next door to a high end dressage barn. they have over 50 horse boarding and taking lessons so I can just skip next door and watch.
Again it doesn't interest me.
As someone once said about dressage, the movie was Sylvester.

Watching dressage is like watching cement set :lol::lol:


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> Watching dressage is like watching cement set :lol::lol:


Ah, now that hurts, dude. 

But, it does explain your perspective on a lot of things. As a self-proclaimed perfectionist, I'd have thought dressage would be right up your alley. The sport is inundated with anal-retentive perfectionists.


----------



## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> Watching dressage is like watching cement set :lol::lol:


I will concede that watching low level tests can be dull, especially when you're seeing the test ridden poorly and front-to-back for the 12th time. I love watching upper level tests, and scrounge YouTube for video of Grand Prix freestyles. Then it becomes incredible spectator sport. Would that I could get to see WEG this year!!! Alas...

Once you get to riding, though, even at low levels the boredom evaporates pretty rapidly. Too much to focus on and think about to get bored! :lol:


----------



## Danjones (Mar 17, 2010)

abby2010 
if u r still having a hard time with your hose and dont have any training books i stongly sugest finding one about retraining track horses or maybe an instructional dvd but the best thiong to have is paticence and once ur horse figurse somthing out and does it right twice STOP for ten mins it helps a ton


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> Ah, now that hurts, dude.
> 
> But, it does explain your perspective on a lot of things. As a self-proclaimed perfectionist, I'd have thought dressage would be right up your alley. The sport is inundated with anal-retentive perfectionists.


Didn't you ever watch the movie "Sylvester"" A great horse movie. That was the line from that movie describing Dressage.:lol:


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> Didn't you ever watch the movie "Sylvester"" A great horse movie. That was the line from that movie describing Dressage.:lol:


Yeah, saw that movie a million years ago, but don't recall the line. Memory's not so good. LOL!


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> Yeah, saw that movie a million years ago, but don't recall the line. Memory's not so good. LOL!


Forget the old fellows name, the one riding the horse in the moonlight with the girl watching from the shadows??. He was talking to the young fellow who was falling for the girl in the movie.
It was a good movie.
Like I said earlier I live right next door to a high end barn with over 50 riders. NOt ONCE have I seen anyone ride outside the ring, never out the lane, never in the field beside the lane. I also live about 1/2 mile from a large dutch warmblood farm and I counted 44 horses out in a single field, I ride through there all the time and not once have I run into anyone running the fields, only mea and they own the land.
I would get so bored spending all my time in an arena. Like nailing one foot to the floor and then telling a kid to go have fun playing.
I was into jumping in the 80's so I know what it is like to spend hours, days, years going round and round:lol::lol:


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> Forget the old fellows name, the one riding the horse in the moonlight with the girl watching from the shadows??. He was talking to the young fellow who was falling for the girl in the movie.
> It was a good movie.
> Like I said earlier I live right next door to a high end barn with over 50 riders. NOt ONCE have I seen anyone ride outside the ring, never out the lane, never in the field beside the lane. I also live about 1/2 mile from a large dutch warmblood farm and I counted 44 horses out in a single field, I ride through there all the time and not once have I run into anyone running the fields, only mea and they own the land.
> I would get so bored spending all my time in an arena. Like nailing one foot to the floor and then telling a kid to go have fun playing.
> I was into jumping in the 80's so I know what it is like to spend hours, days, years going round and round:lol::lol:


Linda Blair was the girl..and yes, the actor's name escapes me too.

Well, let's see...I was just at a dressage demo last weekend and the just finished GP horse they used (an 11yr old gelding) was on the market for a mere 1.2 million dollars...so, um...if the owners tend to bubblewrap the horses a bit...they usually have a reason for it. :wink: Having said that, I don't necessarily agree with it, I'm just saying...

It is a common misconception that dressage is just going around and around in circles. It is the furthest thing from the truth. At its best it is an art, but of course, not everyone appreciates the same art.


----------



## VintageMatch (Jul 23, 2009)

dressage isn't just about ring work, we will take our horses out in the fields and down the roads even into parades. To me you still seem to be judging something you don't know. Watching a few dressage lessons is different than riding in that disciplin. 

Also, I can't quote on here because I am on my iPod but, Riosdad, you said in one of your firsts posts that you would get a horse running then 'shut it down hard' by yanking on it's mouth with harsh bits then you kick it on again and yet again 'shut it down hard'. Now this didn't make sense to me, wouldn't this confuse the horse and make it fearful of running. I have an ottb she's only 6 and I know if someone ever did that to her she would lose her head. I would also think putting a harsh bit in someone inexperianced hands then you would do a lot of damage to that horse. I have been teaching Vint to stop without any pressure on the reins she will go and stop with my seat.

Also with a horse from the track that has only been used as a broodmare I would think lunging would teach the neccesary verbal ques to then teach leg and seat ques to that horse. Lunging is not a bad thing. 

Just IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Mercedes said:


> It is a common misconception that dressage is just going around and around in circles. It is the furthest thing from the truth. At its best it is an art, but of course, not everyone appreciates the same art.


If you are confined on all side by walls going in circles or squares or whatever inside said side still would drive me nuts. the same scenery all the time.
In another hour I will head out and run open fields, lope across them into the bush where I will snake my way around the swamp doing hills, sliding down washes, getting fresh air, maybe seeing deer, a coyote, a wolf,squires, ducks, birds. It will be seeing different things, same trails only about 10 miles of them but different then the constant confinement of 4 walls.
I will be able to forget about my horse and retreat into a dream world and just leave the pony ride to my guy. Don't have to think about riding or anythng if I don't want to. 
The footing is constantly changeing from good to bad, back and forth but never the same.
No I am not a dressage rider.


----------



## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

VintageMatch said:


> , Riosdad, you said in one of your firsts posts that you would get a horse running then 'shut it down hard' by yanking on it's mouth with harsh bits then you kick it on again and yet again 'shut it down hard'. Now this didn't make sense to me, wouldn't this confuse the horse and make it fearful of running.


 
The girl had a nice little 6 year old standbred mare, not a track horse but a pacer but she would jump every fence on the place. Put her out in the morning and she could be 3 or 4 fields away before you turned around.
She also had the habit of going along nicely and then suddenly bolting, dead run and nothing would stop her but you bailing off. She would take a page wire fence.
Another male rider tried her and she dumped him too.
The horse was going Tuesday to the meat market, most end up there.
I asked the girl to let me try.
I put in a west grazing bit but with a port and a tight curb chain.
I took the horse out in a big hay field and then just yell and let her run. She flew across the field and then I yelled HO and slamed her with everything I had in my back, legs and arms. I want to hurt her. She just about turned inside out but stood trembling.
I then turned her in a new direction and once again called for a run. Off she flew and again after she got going I yelled HO and hit her agian with everything I had. Again turned her just about inside out.
Again, the 3rd time I turned he in a new direction , called for a flat out run and then the only thing I did was yell HO, no rein. She slammed on, stood trembling, I reached down petted her, told her she was a good girl and turned and rode her home at a walk.
She never ran again, I asked the girl to lope her across the field, not a hard run a nice lope and say HO.
It work. She never ran again. She never was sold either.

When I was 12 my horse ran away with me, remember I was 12, and I got badly hurt in a fence, I carry a 6 inch scare today. I couldn't stop my mare. My dad did what I just discribed, 2 hard stops and the 3rd was only voice, only. that mare never ran again, never. 
As a teenager I would comb my hair with the mare at a good run and only say the word and she would do a sliding stop. 
I do the same thing for others, not myself, I spend time training my own but others who are ready to give up, I will teach the horse this lesson and he will remember.


----------



## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> If you are confined on all side by walls going in circles or squares or whatever inside said side still would drive me nuts. the same scenery all the time.


LOL! I guess your wife doesn't have you on a chain of any sort then, eh?

Dressage riders don't see it as 'confinement' and we're aren't in there for the scenery. The ride inside that box is between the horse and rider. Nothing else exists in the world and there is as much beauty in that as there is in all the wildlife around you. It's just a matter of perspective.

I actually ride in my 'box' in the middle of a field surrounded by trees and rocks and deer and such. Makes it much more challenging for me and the horse to stay focused in our work.



> I will be able to forget about my horse and retreat into a dream world and just leave the pony ride to my guy. Don't have to think about riding or anythng if I don't want to.


This is a fundamental difference in our philosophies. I don't ever go someplace else when I'm with my horse. It's always about the two of us. I want the horse focused on me, and in return, as much out of courtesy and partnership as anything else, I focus on the horse. If I want to enjoy the scenery, I'll stop and look about and let the horse look about as well.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

RiosDad said:


> I'm not in the least bit interested in taking a dressage lesson. I have often sat on the side lines and watched my 2 riding partners taking a lesson. It doesn't intest me in the least. I also live right next door to a high end dressage barn. they have over 50 horse boarding and taking lessons so I can just skip next door and watch.
> Again it doesn't interest me.
> 
> 
> Watching dressage is like watching cement set :lol::lol:


Ah - scared. I understand now.


----------

