# My pony refuses to go forward..



## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

This is a huge respect issue. 

I know you want her to enjoy being ridden and enjoy doing things, and you seem to want to have a good relationship with her, however no relationship can exist without respect to you, the rider and human. She has, what seems to me, zero respect for you and your aids right now. I know you don't want to "force" her to go forward, but to be quite honest she knows that you don't want to force her and she's not going to do anything at this point unless you make it quite clear that FORWARD is her only option. I would buy a small crop or a dressage whip. You don't have to smack her hard. Ask her first to move forward with your leg. A gentle squeeze. If she doesn't respond, squeeze again and immediately tap her behind the leg with the whip. Tap, not smack. If she still doesn't listen then she needs a solid rap on the behind to say "Hey, I told you to move forward, now please do it!" As soon as she goes forward praise her, tell her she's a good girl, and continue your ride. Every time she stops and refuses to move, repeat the process. When she learns that she has to listen to you, things will be a lot more enjoyable for the both of you.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I second what Strange said.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

Strange said:


> This is a huge respect issue.
> 
> I know you want her to enjoy being ridden and enjoy doing things, and you seem to want to have a good relationship with her, however no relationship can exist without respect to you, the rider and human. She has, what seems to me, zero respect for you and your aids right now. I know you don't want to "force" her to go forward, but to be quite honest she knows that you don't want to force her and she's not going to do anything at this point unless you make it quite clear that FORWARD is her only option. I would buy a small crop or a dressage whip. You don't have to smack her hard. Ask her first to move forward with your leg. A gentle squeeze. If she doesn't respond, squeeze again and immediately tap her behind the leg with the whip. Tap, not smack. If she still doesn't listen then she needs a solid rap on the behind to say "Hey, I told you to move forward, now please do it!" As soon as she goes forward praise her, tell her she's a good girl, and continue your ride. Every time she stops and refuses to move, repeat the process. When she learns that she has to listen to you, things will be a lot more enjoyable for the both of you.


Thanks a lot, Strange!
It helps.
Yeah, we're very good friends on the ground, but she hasn't got much respect for me, I think she looks at herself as the leader, not me...which I guess is not very good.:?
She can get stubborn while I'm leading her too, but she's a lot easier to handle on the ground and usually responds on the ground.

So I'll buy a small crop or a dressage whip - I'll have a look around.
Only problem is that I get a bad feeling when I do it, *but,* it's worse if I just continue to allow her to have her own ways, because then I feel helpless and useless, and get quite down. LOL .. 

So I think it's the only thing to do at the moment.
And I would probably have done it long ago had it not been for my parents. When they are not there, I could use a riding crop, but when they're there they would scold me for it!! They are very "Non-violent"...So there's a problem..

Anyway thanks a lot!
I appreciate it!:wink:


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## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

Unless you put every ounce of strength into smacking the horse it's very unlikely you'll actually hurt them. It might sting when you give her a good smack, but if you reward her going forward by praising and being soft you'll find that you have to reinforce your leg aids less and less. Ponies (in my opinion) are especially pushy and really like to test their limits more so than horses. When a horse gets to thinking that it's in charge things can go from frustrating to dangerous very quickly. It's important that you be in charge and that your pony be the follower. It's just safer, and you'll find handling her both from the saddle and on the ground to be much easier. I'm not at all saying you should be violent or mean or anything like that, but you need to be firm and draw the line. These are the rules and she must follow them or risk getting reprimanded. You wouldn't go and babysit a 3 year old child and let them do whatever they want would you? That would be scary indeed, lol. It's the same with horses. You treat them as a child and you are the adult in the situation.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

Strange said:


> Unless you put every ounce of strength into smacking the horse it's very unlikely you'll actually hurt them. It might sting when you give her a good smack, but if you reward her going forward by praising and being soft you'll find that you have to reinforce your leg aids less and less. Ponies (in my opinion) are especially pushy and really like to test their limits more so than horses. When a horse gets to thinking that it's in charge things can go from frustrating to dangerous very quickly. It's important that you be in charge and that your pony be the follower. It's just safer, and you'll find handling her both from the saddle and on the ground to be much easier. I'm not at all saying you should be violent or mean or anything like that, but you need to be firm and draw the line. These are the rules and she must follow them or risk getting reprimanded. You wouldn't go and babysit a 3 year old child and let them do whatever they want would you? That would be scary indeed, lol. It's the same with horses. You treat them as a child and you are the adult in the situation.


You're right about that!
This has helped me a lot in my decision, Strange, for that I thank you:wink:
I'll buy a crop/whip then, and I'll post a new thread if I come across any more problems with it, shall I?


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## Quariesian (Apr 22, 2011)

I had the exact same problem with a mare I used to ride. She ABSOLUTELY would not move! I could kick, squeeze, even use a whip and she wouldn't budge.

That was the way my first-ever-lesson went, unfortunetly. The instructor taught me zip! that and I was incredibly discouraged about my riding long after that lesson. Ugh.. 

But I agree with all of the advice above, 100%!


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

Quariesian said:


> I had the exact same problem with a mare I used to ride. She ABSOLUTELY would not move! I could kick, squeeze, even use a whip and she wouldn't budge.
> 
> That was the way my first-ever-lesson went, unfortunetly. The instructor taught me zip! that and I was incredibly discouraged about my riding long after that lesson. Ugh..
> 
> But I agree with all of the advice above, 100%!


Exactly! It's so frustrating..

Thanks, I'm sure we'll manage to get it better, me and my dear horse!
It just feels so wrong to have to quarrel all the time with her. We just have to get past it!!


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

You could also try a small riding bat and give her a pop on the shoulder if she doesnt listen. They're smaller and easier to control in my opinion. 

Like this: Weaver Leather Whip Riding Bat 24" w/strap Black


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

Spastic_Dove said:


> You could also try a small riding bat and give her a pop on the shoulder if she doesnt listen. They're smaller and easier to control in my opinion.
> 
> Like this: Weaver Leather Whip Riding Bat 24" w/strap Black


Aha!! Thank you, it looks nice to me, I think that might be the thing for us.
I'll try to buy one like that, shall I?


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## Hlover (Apr 17, 2011)

I totally agree with everything on here but if ur interested there are a few other things you could do to improve your horses respect as the leader of the "herd" 
Join up is a technic I love to use on all my horses to establish whose the leader right away.
Here's a video of it! And this can be done in a bigger space if need be: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2manypets (Mar 28, 2011)

Buy a jump bat with a big, loud popper and LET HER HAVE IT on the butt after you ask her to go forward and she refuses to move. 
BE PREPARED, she may leap into action. Do not snap her in the mouth when she moves forward.


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## Quariesian (Apr 22, 2011)

Also, smacking your pony on the butt with your hand might get 'em goin'. I could be talking outta by behind, but I did this with a palomino pony I was riding and it worked.

Pro-tip: Don't twist all the way around like I did. The pony jolted forward at the smack and I almost went off the back. XD (I don't mean wail on him, just a light smack).


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Silver Wings said:


> Only thing is I don't like to force her ..so I haven't bought a whip..
> I just want her to like the same as me... :-|


Your problem is obvious from the above sentence. Horse's don't like or love, they respect leadership. Get a whip and re-establish yourself as the herd leader.


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

I do understand where you are coming from. But the thing is now that your mare knows that she's the boss and not you, she can pretty much just zone you out, liusten when she feels like it and eat grass at her leisure. Once you get her to respect you as the boss, which in this case looks like it means giving her a smack with a crop/whip if she ignores your leg, you won't have to continually force her. Sure, she'll probably test you occasionally to see if you're still the boss, but most horses "get it" and you don't have to do huge corrections all the time. 

I recently read a great article in Dressage Today by Courtney King-Dye. Here it is summed up, the way my brain caught it. It is one of my favorite articles.
You should only speak (meaning your aids, since they are how you communicate to your horse while riding) to you horse in a whisper (subtle aids). If they don't obey your whisper then you must shout (a correction as strong as you need to get the horse to do what you first asked in a whisper). But DO NOT talk to your horse (mediocre aids, not actual voice talking) because talking is like nagging and will just dull the horse further. We shout to get the horse to respond to the whisper. We don't shout at them all the time, once they listen, we go right back to whispering.

I hope this made things a little clearer to you.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

Hlover said:


> I totally agree with everything on here but if ur interested there are a few other things you could do to improve your horses respect as the leader of the "herd"
> Join up is a technic I love to use on all my horses to establish whose the leader right away.
> Here's a video of it! And this can be done in a bigger space if need be: YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, but the link didn't work, it just sent me off to the Youtube main page
I've heard about join-up, and would really really love to try it with her.
I just need a better enclosure, preferably a round paddock, isn't that the ideal choice?
But you're right, I've always been fascinated by join up, thanks for reminding me!



2manypets said:


> Buy a jump bat with a big, loud popper and LET HER HAVE IT on the butt after you ask her to go forward and she refuses to move.
> BE PREPARED, she may leap into action. Do not snap her in the mouth when she moves forward.


That's right - thanks, I'll remember that! (=



Quariesian said:


> Also, smacking your pony on the butt with your hand might get 'em goin'. I could be talking outta by behind, but I did this with a palomino pony I was riding and it worked.
> 
> Pro-tip: Don't twist all the way around like I did. The pony jolted forward at the smack and I almost went off the back. XD (I don't mean wail on him, just a light smack).


lol, I guess that works sometimes  Though when she is at her most stubborn I don't think the hand will get her going..
Thanks anyway! C:



MyBoyPuck said:


> Your problem is obvious from the above sentence. Horse's don't like or love, they respect leadership. Get a whip and re-establish yourself as the herd leader.


You mean horses are not able to enjoy being ridden, for instance?
Sounds quite depressing to me.. I understand that I have to be the leader, but once that's established, is it impossible for the horse to like it at all?
It kind of confuses me 



IslandWave said:


> I do understand where you are coming from. But the thing is now that your mare knows that she's the boss and not you, she can pretty much just zone you out, liusten when she feels like it and eat grass at her leisure. Once you get her to respect you as the boss, which in this case looks like it means giving her a smack with a crop/whip if she ignores your leg, you won't have to continually force her. Sure, she'll probably test you occasionally to see if you're still the boss, but most horses "get it" and you don't have to do huge corrections all the time.
> 
> I recently read a great article in Dressage Today by Courtney King-Dye. Here it is summed up, the way my brain caught it. It is one of my favorite articles.
> You should only speak (meaning your aids, since they are how you communicate to your horse while riding) to you horse in a whisper (subtle aids). If they don't obey your whisper then you must shout (a correction as strong as you need to get the horse to do what you first asked in a whisper). But DO NOT talk to your horse (mediocre aids, not actual voice talking) because talking is like nagging and will just dull the horse further. We shout to get the horse to respond to the whisper. We don't shout at them all the time, once they listen, we go right back to whispering.
> ...


Thank you, that made things easier a lot, IslandWave! I appreciate it, really 
I'll just have to work with her, it seems. I'm sure we'll manage it in the end!
Perhaps try join up, like mentioned above, and buy a whip/bat too.

If any of you have any more tips for me, just pop 'em in! Thanks! 
I didn't foresee getting that many responses from you guys, thanks for that too


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## mistyorbit (Apr 23, 2011)

Just wanted to add: no carrots! Do not try to be sweet in response to bad behavior like that. It's just a reward and a waste of produce.

And, get yourself prepared for her to buck when you pop her. Do not stop because of that, just reassert that you two are going forward. Period. The sooner she figures you mean business the better.

Finally, I like progressive cues. You squeeze with your legs, up the ante to kicking, then move to a smack on the shoulder with the reins, then a good crop to her butt (repeated if necessary) until you get the results you need. 

She will get the idea that she can't be a lazy bum but be very consistent and don't let anyone else ride her while you are working your issues out unless it's a better rider than you. Which, if she continues winning, you must seek the advice and help of.


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

mistyorbit said:


> Just wanted to add: no carrots! Do not try to be sweet in response to bad behavior like that. It's just a reward and a waste of produce.
> 
> And, get yourself prepared for her to buck when you pop her. Do not stop because of that, just reassert that you two are going forward. Period. The sooner she figures you mean business the better.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that is very sensible.
I just give her carrots as a reward - unfortunately some fools have tried to give it to her when she refuses to move, but I won't allow it.

And I won't let anyone else ride her either, no problem. I don't know of any good riders in my area, but if she doesn't get better I'll just have to find one.

You're very kind helping me out:wink:


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Silver Wings said:


> You mean horses are not able to enjoy being ridden, for instance?
> Sounds quite depressing to me.. I understand that I have to be the leader, but once that's established, is it impossible for the horse to like it at all?
> It kind of confuses me


Not even close to what I was saying. What said is horses respect leadership. Respect leads to the horse feeling very secure and happy that there's a rider up there taking care of them. In their eyes, we've taken the leadership role and protect the herd. I do not have much experience with mares other than know they are more secure in an alone situation than a gelding. What I do know is, take any gelding into an area where he does not feel secure. Ride him as if you were just a passenger. The horse will look around nervously for anything that might eat him. Ride that same horse as an active rider and you suddenly have a confident horse because you have now assumed the leadership role. 

My horse loves to see me and go to work. He throws his head into the halter and off we go to trail ride, jump or do dressage. I think you may be personifying horses too much. Horses do not hold grudges. They don't hate you because you corrected a bad behavior. If I am leading my horse along a path and he tries to grass dodge, I can either let him, in which case he will drag me along whenever he wants grass, or I can pop him once in the belly with the lead rope and he walks like a perfect gentleman back to the paddock. Either way he still stands there so I can rub his cute little ears before turning him loose. 

Mares are very confident. Right now she is taking advantage of your lack of leadership. You can either continue to let her call all the shots, or you can be her leader. Your choice.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

You've gotten some great advice here, Silver Wings. 

In terms of "force," "love," and "liking work," horses don't think at all like people, IMHO. Puck hit the nail on the head in her post. Force doesn't mean nasty, it just means closing as many doors as it takes for the horse to choose the one she needs to to get the right answer. There's always a progression, and the application of "force" (for lack of a better term) is always fair - ask before you tell. 

As Strange said before, it's very much like parenting in a lot of ways. Your mom asks you to clean your room, and if you don't she gets more and more "forceful" and the consequences of not cleaning your room get higher. The difference is that horses don't understand what it means to be grounded or to lose an allowance. You need to speak in a language that they understand, which sometimes includes using hooves and teeth to back up a request. 

Trust comes from healthy respect - this is something that horses and humans have in common. Think about it; is there anyone who you trust but you do not respect, and did not respect first? Respect is different than fear, and the difference is in fairness and consistency. 

Here are some books that you (and your parents) may find helpful and interesting reading.

This is a very good starter-book for learning how and why horses see the world and react to different things.
Amazon.com: How to Think Like A Horse: The Essential Handbook for Understanding Why Horses Do What They Do (9781580178358): Cherry Hill: Books


Slightly tougher reading, but these are the words of a true master.
Amazon.com: True Unity: Willing Communication Between Horse and Human (9780971138612): Tom Dorrance, Milly Hunt Porter: Books 


Also slightly tougher reading, and more inclined to classical dressage concepts, but there are some excellent discussions on the mindset and mechanics of human/horse partnership. 
Amazon.com: Horsemanship: A Comprehensive Book on Training the Horse and Its Rider (Trafalgar Square Classics) (9781570762390): Waldemar Seunig: Books


Good luck!! :wink:


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## DocsDaniGirl (Feb 11, 2010)

Some wonderful advice here!

And who knows, you might get really lucky, and just the sight of the crop/whip will be enough to motivate her to move forward more willingly. That is how my boy is. I don't usually have to USE the crop, most of the time just having it with me is enough.

Good luck!


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Not even close to what I was saying. What said is horses respect leadership. Respect leads to the horse feeling very secure and happy that there's a rider up there taking care of them. In their eyes, we've taken the leadership role and protect the herd. I do not have much experience with mares other than know they are more secure in an alone situation than a gelding. What I do know is, take any gelding into an area where he does not feel secure. Ride him as if you were just a passenger. The horse will look around nervously for anything that might eat him. Ride that same horse as an active rider and you suddenly have a confident horse because you have now assumed the leadership role.
> 
> My horse loves to see me and go to work. He throws his head into the halter and off we go to trail ride, jump or do dressage. I think you may be personifying horses too much. Horses do not hold grudges. They don't hate you because you corrected a bad behavior. If I am leading my horse along a path and he tries to grass dodge, I can either let him, in which case he will drag me along whenever he wants grass, or I can pop him once in the belly with the lead rope and he walks like a perfect gentleman back to the paddock. Either way he still stands there so I can rub his cute little ears before turning him loose.
> 
> Mares are very confident. Right now she is taking advantage of your lack of leadership. You can either continue to let her call all the shots, or you can be her leader. Your choice.


Of course, I didn't mean to offend you, I just misunderstood your post, I'm sorry :-|
Anyway, thanks for explaining, now it makes a lot more sense to me.
I think you're absolutely right in everything you say, and I really must thank you for your help, your post is motivating me in a way! :wink:
Seems like I don't have any choice, as I can't stand it continuing in this way.
I'll just try hard to be a better leader from now on. I've already become a bit better at it, I haven't got a whip yet, but I've just been working from the ground, and if she refuses to go I give her a small pop with the leading rope. That usually helps!!
And, it hasn't destroyed anything for us, we're as good friends as before, so you're of course right.
Thank you. 



DocsDaniGirl said:


> Some wonderful advice here!
> 
> And who knows, you might get really lucky, and just the sight of the crop/whip will be enough to motivate her to move forward more willingly. That is how my boy is. I don't usually have to USE the crop, most of the time just having it with me is enough.
> 
> Good luck!


Yes, I think so too!!  I really enjoy all the help I'm getting from all the experienced and nice people on here.

That is how I think my Silver will start behaving in a while too. She's already become better at it, as mentioned above - when she's just a little tiny bit stubborn, if I just swing the rope a little some inches from her, she'll start walking at once. If she's more stubborn, she'll be more difficult, but it usually works in the end to pop her a little with the leading rope as mentioned above.

Thank you, thank you!! 



Scoutrider said:


> You've gotten some great advice here, Silver Wings.
> 
> In terms of "force," "love," and "liking work," horses don't think at all like people, IMHO. Puck hit the nail on the head in her post. Force doesn't mean nasty, it just means closing as many doors as it takes for the horse to choose the one she needs to to get the right answer. There's always a progression, and the application of "force" (for lack of a better term) is always fair - ask before you tell.
> 
> ...


Thank you for explanations, advice and links for books!! :wink:
It's very nice of you.
Again, what you say seems all to be very true, so I'll stick to that. Maybe read those books, at least one of them, and just start working with her!

That about the respect/trust/fear was very well written, that really appealed to me.
I mean, I do want her to respect me. I just haven't thought about it that way before, lol. What would a friendship without respect be? Nothing, if you ask me.:wink:
Oh, thank you once more, all this has really helped me to understand! =]

Regards, Embla


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

Hello guys, I know this thread is old but thought that maybe you would like to know how the situation with my pony turned out? 

I'll tell you:

Silver is now a waaaay better horse for riding.
She sometimes stops and wants to eat grass when we ride on grass, but she listens to me when I tell her that "this is time for exercise!".
So, now when she isn't refusing to move anymore, I sometimes reward her and let her take some munches now and then.
She is now a fit little mare, loves to run (she's always loved to run - once she was moving, but now she's so easy and quick, but calm too).
Now I can really feel that both of us loves the rides - and that's a big advantage!!

But - I should tell you.
I never bought a whip, to be honest. I didn't do join-up with her either.
No, I started on the ground, leading her around, sometimes trotting, and practised on a few commands from the ground.
When she didn't want to walk, I gave her a little tap with the lead-rope, but that's all.
Then when she was all recovered from the laminitis and I felt it was okay to ride her, she was of course still stubborn.
So I did sometimes ride her with a long "grass straw", using that as a kind of "whip" - just tapping her gently on the shoulder if she didn't move.
I know it sounds weird using a strand of grass, but it did work! And I used that because I was in the field and could easily pick one from horseback..
But I just used that in the start, and now I always ride without.
When she doesn't want to go forward now I just have to use my heels slightly, and she will walk forward.

Now, I guess there's one more reason that she's become a much better horse to ride: We've moved to Sweden!
And where we live now there's lots of soft forest paths that she absolutely loves.
I guess that all the field-riding was boring her to death. :wink:

Anyway, long story - but now we're both happy, and that's the good thing, is it not?


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## HorseyyGal (Jun 20, 2011)

Kudos to you for resolving the problem your own way  Hope you & your mare have loads of fun galloping around your field


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## Silver Wings (Jan 29, 2011)

HorseyyGal said:


> Kudos to you for resolving the problem your own way  Hope you & your mare have loads of fun galloping around your field


Thank you!! 
Yeah well, now we're able to ride more places than the field too, as I said, as we moved to a better place for riding


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