# I need advice about my trainer



## Horsef

Why would you switch trainers when your attitude is the problem? I don’t see him doing anything wrong at all. Well, maybe he is doing something wrong when he allows himself to be treated the way you’re treating him...

However, you do know that clients can be fired? And it happens often enough. Your trainer doesn’t have any obligation to put up with you. Just sit for a minute and think about that and see if it changes your mindset. He isn’t your father or your brother, he is a professional who so far has allowed himself to be treated with disrespect at his job. He may well change his mind.


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## Foxhunter

Personally I think your trainer is way to soft on you. 

For a starters I would have any phones handed in before work starts. You admit you have an attitude, I do think the trainer is wrong in yelling at you, it doesn't get you anywhere, instead he should offer you a warning of your attitude and then just issue punishment, 10 press ups, run a mile or some such. Attitude continues then the penalties go up and up and up until you realise that there are consequences for your behaviour. 

I do not care that you are a mid teen, that is just a modern day excuse for bad behaviour.


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## Horsef

Actually, I think there is more to this. Please disregard my first post, I didn’t think it through and I am sorry.

Your trainer is not behaving professionally because he seems to have put himself in a much more intimate role than he should be in. Shouting at you, taking your phone away, taking you to his home for dinner... those things are reserved for family. And (bad) boyfriends.

Is there anything inappropriate happening? Your trainer seems to have blurred the boundaries.
Are you alone at his house with him for those dinners?

Even if there isn’t any inappropriate physical contact, does he ever make you feel uncomfortable? I am talking about overly long looks, touching you to improve your seat that isn’t necessary, walking in “by accident” while you are changing, talking or alluding to sex or your body? This is called grooming and is putting you on a path to be abused.

If any of this is happening, talk to your parents immediately and do not go back to that yard ever. You need to be on high alert in this situation.

If you are a victim of abuse, please know that it isn’t your fault. Abusers are vile people who know how to manipulate. 

I could also be very mistaken and your trainer is just inexperienced in setting boundaries with his clients.

In either case, you DO need to change trainers. First case is obvious. In case he is just inexperienced, you need to find a trainer who knows how to position himself with his clients because your trainers lack of authority is sure to hinder your riding as well.

Best of luck.
Please, please seek help if you are being abused. It isn’t your fault.


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## Fimargue

Get over yourself. Being a teen is no excuse for bad behaviour and attitude. Were you my student, I would have sacked you the first instance you give me attitude and getting no apology for it. Not my job to raise you and no interest in fighting with someone who thinks they are privileged to treat people poorly just because of their age.

On the other hand if he is controlling and acting in a way that is not healthy, then that's another thing.


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## Avna

I don't think you came to the right place for support for a bad attitude and rudeness. How your trainer handles it may or may not be right, but you are the issue, not him. Straighten up and your problem will go away.


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## horselovinguy

*I think you both have an issue....*
I don't think you are going to get many here that think from your telling it is all "he is so not fair ...."
I think you are going to find more of us find phones obnoxious and_* don't *_belong in certain places, during certain times and many who will just lump you together with other teens who think they are entitled to do as they wish, when they wish and how they wish regardless of their own safety or the safety of others their actions put at risk. 

You have a problem with "attitude"..._you admit it._
You also have a problem with respect... 
Don't care if you are similar in age, certain times to be on a phone _*is rude!*_
That phone and at the dinner table, _are rude _to him and any other guest in attendance.
There is a time & place for it and at the dinner table _in a restaurant, _*is not it!!*
That phone and during work..._no go for me either._
You are in the company of 1000+ pound animals that need your full attention_ *for you* to stay safe._
Your talking/texting, what the heck is so important it can't wait??
You do realize that that phone and so important conversation either spoken or texted could cause you serious injury when your attention is diverted? Or injury to another...
_Is that possibility really worth it??_

As for your trainer...
He is right to put limits on your phone use in the presence of horses or actually just in general while with him..
Being a contributing part of society, where you learn values and social graces is obviously not something you are yet well versed in...
He, {you refer to the trainer as a man}...he _is_ trying to teach you them and at his horse farm keep you safe.
If you can't see the value in his judgement, the reasoning behind it...
Well, as someone else said, clients can be fired, told to move on too...
You might just be one of those who gets shown the door... :|

Actually, you would be "grounded" if you gave me that attitude. 
No longer being welcome to go with me places anymore till it changed...and out to restaurants...better start packing a bag lunch too. :icon_rolleyes:

How sad that you not do something about your 'tude...
You write of it rather "proudly" on a internet forum....
How sad for your trainer that it is he who needs to step in to this role of authority to teach you social morays and values...starting with how you should behave in a restaurant when others are present.
How much he cares that you remain safe being in the presence of horses he takes you to task and demands you be more aware of your surroundings...

Seriously....unless you are, or you're witnessing a person bleeding profusely needing medical attention immediately, or a murder there _*is*_ a time and place for that phone...
Someplaces, ...well let us just say you won't get me back-patting you and saying he is wrong.
_There *is* much more to this story I'm positive... :|_
You _don't _deserve to be yelled at by your trainer either...but if that is the only way to reach you when you're brain is engaged on that so important phone...well, you're going to miss a lot of this very special world and people that live in it..

You, you have a problem with respect and authority..._both!_
Attitude, yes you absolutely have one if even you recognize it...
I think you may have met a larger attitude though and one that is "trying" to educate you and keep you safe since you are lacking in both areas currently. :frown_color: 
That is the "attitude" of your trainer...

As is often the case, so many others before me wrote less words and _*BANG!*_..._ hit it square on perfect!!_

:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Kalraii

Something isn't right here. You say you annoy him and give attitude but he takes you out to dinner? He ends your lesson early to make you do push ups? Takes your phone from you and tries to control how much you're on it? AND HE'S YOUR *TRAINER?* You mention that he's young... do you find him attractive? Because in what world does any trainer do that, even to a teenager? Do you think he would treat you the same if you were a boy? Take you out to dinner? This is 2018.... teachers could lose their careers if they tried this crap. Teenagers mouth off all the time and yeah - normal, sane *adults* would sack you. Not take you to dinner, make you do push ups and control your use of your phone.

I'm glad you posted because something isn't right about this. Yes, having attitude is unattractive but maybe you're insecure and it's the only way to define yourself and project confidence. It's normal.. you're still developing. You are right that you need to learn to curb your sass as it it wont help you as age but I also want you to know that if there is one thing you OWN in this world that NO ONE can and ever should mess with:YOURSELF. "No" is a sentence all on it's own. Whatever game you're playing with this trainer stop it immediately because you might be getting over your head now. Stop going to dinner before it gets weirder. Honestly what do your parents think of you going to dinner with him knowing all the other things he does? And if they don't know any of it and you're afraid to tell them because of their reaction.. well you have your answer, don't you.

I don't like being ordered around or shouted at - no one does. But I work in a hospital. Just because a doctor full on shouts at me to get an IV doesn't mean I'm going to start getting in a verbal fight with him. Because that IV is to help a dying patient. So what do I do?_ I shut my mouth and get the IV because that's more important that my pride._ When things are quiet I will approach the doctor and in a calm voice explain to him how I do not appreciate the WAY in which he spoke to me. A patient is giving birth and screaming at me - should I just start giving her attitude instead of helping deliver the baby? You gotta learn to keep that mouth shut and stop wasting your breath on negative comments. Try complimenting someone every now and then. If you gotta sweep and muck out in payment to ride a horse - then SWEEP AND MUCK OUT! Don't argue about it! Just DO it. Don't like it? LEAVE. You're a big girl now. Sass us ugly. Go learn the definition of indifference and practice it.

So with all that out the way. If you feel uncomfortable girl.. know that people should be on your side. If you go to an adult and they shrug it off as if it's no big deal... and you STILL have this nagging feeling in your stomach that you don't feel safe or comfortable. You keep going around until you find the adult that is responsible enough to intervene because this trainer clearly isn't adult enough. I know that if I were your parent and I found this out they would be getting a formal complaint and I'd find your a new trainer.


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## Fimargue

Kalraii said:


> Take you out to dinner?


She said take to get dinner, so I understood take out? Either way would be only normal if she has been helping at the farm all day for no pay.


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## ApuetsoT

You should take a step back and ask why you feel the need to snap back. Do you find yourself feeling defensive when corrected? Feel like you aren't being understood? Is there a communication barrier? Looking objectivity, is his reaction to your back talk reasonable? Or do they tend to make mountains out of mole hills? 

It's important to take a step back and understand why you react this way. This going to come up again once you get a job, guaranteed. You're not too young for self reflection and metacog. 

As for the phone use... Which situations are you using your phone? I use my phone a lot. My trainer also hates it. I'll use my phone during downtime like when I'm waiting for people to tack up, waiting for my horse to finish eating, ect. Never while in a lesson or while actively working with the horses. Not while doing work, but I will answer texts during breaks in work. Still drives my trainer crazy, but I ignore them. You have to know the time and place.


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## Kalraii

Fimargue said:


> She said take to get dinner, so I understood take out? Either way would be only normal if she has been helping at the farm all day for no pay.


Yeah I agree that things can be interpreted differently. I just think even if it IS to get take out in my experience as a teenager trainers and instructors want to get RID of the teenagers and have a break... not hang out with them. It's the parents job to sort dinner. Unless he's a family friend or something... I think working in exchange for a ride is the normal teenage currency over here. In fact volunteering for the privilege of just being around horses is common enough (not that I agree). I just think once you cross the line it's hard to bring back the professionalism. The alarming part is the pattern - bring someone down just to pick them back up. Over and over. It's the same pattern in abusive relationships. They tear someone down pick them back up, reward, and tell them "good thing I put up with you coz no one else will". Teenagers are especially vulnerable. I am likely (hopefully) being over-paranoid over the situation and appreciate that. I also agree that yes, the attitude probably stinks to high heavens but that's a separate issue. I'm just worried about HIS behaviour and response more than hers (or even his?). 

I had men in their 40's try groom me and tell me not to tell their wife - when I was 15. Fortunately I had a great family that really prepared me for that scenario. I just wish more young men and women are prepared.

Then again - he could just be a hardass bloke who wants to make a behaviour rehab ranch IDK. That's the thing... IDK.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I rode with the same trainer for many years. He was 26 when I started with him. I wouldn't have DARED to give him an attitude, nor would he have tolerated any sass from me. If I had dared, he'd have said, "Get off the horse and don't come back until you learn some manners." and that would have been the end of that. We frequently had meals together, either at this home (with his family present) or at a restaurant (after shows) and NO ONE would have pulled out their phone. That was always special time with him and my other riding friends, we wouldn't ever have been so rude and tuned out. He wouldn't have yelled at us, he never let things get that out of hand, but if he had, my worry wouldn't have been him it would have been what my parents would have done to me when I got home and they found out how disrespectful I had been. As far as yelling back at him? When he got done, my folks would have stepped in and I'd have been lucky to go back to that barn before I was 21 and out of the house. 

So no, sorry, no sympathy here for the attitude issues. 

If he's being inappropriate, and we all know that can be a thing, then you need to tell your parents and let them handle him. That's not how I'm reading this, though.


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## Horsesr4life

Hi!! I did say I would never change trainers ☺ Not in a million years. I just neeed advice on how to watch my attitude and everything


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## tinyliny

Yelling? Push-ups? Hm m m . . .

And dinner at his house? I'm also feeling that this relationship is not balanced appropriately? Do your parents know all this?


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## Horsesr4life

Horsef said:


> Actually, I think there is more to this. Please disregard my first post, I didn’t think it through and I am sorry.
> 
> Your trainer is not behaving professionally because he seems to have put himself in a much more intimate role than he should be in. Shouting at you, taking your phone away, taking you to his home for dinner... those things are reserved for family. And (bad) boyfriends.
> 
> Is there anything inappropriate happening? Your trainer seems to have blurred the boundaries.
> Are you alone at his house with him for those dinners?
> 
> Even if there isn’t any inappropriate physical contact, does he ever make you feel uncomfortable? I am talking about overly long looks, touching you to improve your seat that isn’t necessary, walking in “by accident” while you are changing, talking or alluding to sex or your body? This is called grooming and is putting you on a path to be abused.
> 
> If any of this is happening, talk to your parents immediately and do not go back to that yard ever. You need to be on high alert in this situation.
> 
> If you are a victim of abuse, please know that it isn’t your fault. Abusers are vile people who know how to manipulate.
> 
> I could also be very mistaken and your trainer is just inexperienced in setting boundaries with his clients.
> 
> In either case, you DO need to change trainers. First case is obvious. In case he is just inexperienced, you need to find a trainer who knows how to position himself with his clients because your trainers lack of authority is sure to hinder your riding as well.
> 
> Best of luck.
> Please, please seek help if you are being abused. It isn’t your fault.


Thank you so much, but he isn’t abusing me at all. Nothing inappropriate going on at all, and he has a boyfriend. He is a very close family friend who helps me out when I don’t want to be at home. And we don’t eat at his house, we go to a restaurant to get food. I never feel uncomfortable around him. And like I stated before, he does have every right to yell at me.


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## Horsesr4life

As I’ve stated before, my trainers in his mid thirties, and he has a boyfriend. Yes my parents know about this as they encourage him to get after me for my attitude.


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## Horsesr4life

I greatly appreciate your concern, however it’s nothing like that at all. My trainer is at least in his mid thirties, has a boyfriend, and grew up with all girls. He says he wants me to be successful in life and talking back and having an attitude isn’t the way to do it which is why he gets so mad.


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## Horsesr4life

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I rode with the same trainer for many years. He was 26 when I started with him. I wouldn't have DARED to give him an attitude, nor would he have tolerated any sass from me. If I had dared, he'd have said, "Get off the horse and don't come back until you learn some manners." and that would have been the end of that. We frequently had meals together, either at this home (with his family present) or at a restaurant (after shows) and NO ONE would have pulled out their phone. That was always special time with him and my other riding friends, we wouldn't ever have been so rude and tuned out. He wouldn't have yelled at us, he never let things get that out of hand, but if he had, my worry wouldn't have been him it would have been what my parents would have done to me when I got home and they found out how disrespectful I had been. As far as yelling back at him? When he got done, my folks would have stepped in and I'd have been lucky to go back to that barn before I was 21 and out of the house.
> 
> So no, sorry, no sympathy here for the attitude issues.
> 
> If he's being inappropriate, and we all know that can be a thing, then you need to tell your parents and let them handle him. That's not how I'm reading this, though.


You are right, he’s not being inappropriate at all. I acknowledge everything I’ve done wrong and am looking for help on how to stop having an attitude. Not trying to get sympathy from it. It’s starting to make me feel awful.


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## Horsesr4life

Horsef said:


> Why would you switch trainers when your attitude is the problem? I don’t see him doing anything wrong at all. Well, maybe he is doing something wrong when he allows himself to be treated the way you’re treating him...
> 
> However, you do know that clients can be fired? And it happens often enough. Your trainer doesn’t have any obligation to put up with you. Just sit for a minute and think about that and see if it changes your mindset. He isn’t your father or your brother, he is a professional who so far has allowed himself to be treated with disrespect at his job. He may well change his mind.


I’m just asking for advice on how to fix my attitude because it’s making me feel awful and I love my trainer so so much


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## Horsesr4life

Foxhunter said:


> Personally I think your trainer is way to soft on you.
> 
> For a starters I would have any phones handed in before work starts. You admit you have an attitude, I do think the trainer is wrong in yelling at you, it doesn't get you anywhere, instead he should offer you a warning of your attitude and then just issue punishment, 10 press ups, run a mile or some such. Attitude continues then the penalties go up and up and up until you realise that there are consequences for your behaviour.
> 
> I do not care that you are a mid teen, that is just a modern day excuse for bad behaviour.


I’m not trying to excuse my self from my behavior or seem proud of it at all. I am very ashamed and came on here looking for advice on how to watch my tone and attitude.


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## Horsesr4life

Fimargue said:


> Get over yourself. Being a teen is no excuse for bad behaviour and attitude. Were you my student, I would have sacked you the first instance you give me attitude and getting no apology for it. Not my job to raise you and no interest in fighting with someone who thinks they are privileged to treat people poorly just because of their age.
> 
> On the other hand if he is controlling and acting in a way that is not healthy, then that's another thing.


I’m not trying to use being a teen as an excuse!! I’m looking for advice on how to stop my attitude. I’m trying to do the right thing here.


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## waresbear

I think you should speak with your parents about this.


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## Avna

*Just be polite.* That is what you owe anyone, and that is ALL you owe anyone. 

What is politeness, when it is a teacher-student relationship? 

Doing what is asked, completely, immediately, and to the best of your ability,_ if it has to do with your instruction_. If it does not have to do with your instruction, that's a different story. At that point, you are in the relationship of a child to an adult who is not related to you. You are not obligated to obey an adult who is not your parent, but it should be for a good reason, which should be calmly stated. 

Asking questions if you don't understand, and listening carefully to the answers. 

Apologize for being rude, as soon as you notice you have been rude. 

Leave your phone at home, or at least in the car. You won't die. The reason it is rude to look at your phone in a restaurant with others is that you are ignoring the people you came with. It is the same if you took out a book and read the the whole time, or just pretended the people you were eating with didn't exist. 

Think before you open your mouth. If what is going to come out isn't *useful, kind, and true*, just don't say it. That should keep you completely out of trouble. 

If it doesn't, then the problem is with your trainer and not you.


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## Horsesr4life

waresbear said:


> I think you should speak with your parents about this.


They support my trainer 110% and I do but I just want advice on how to watch my attitude


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## SilverMaple

Don't sass back. You've admitted it's an issue, so practice keeping your thoughts to yourself. If you want to keep an actual job as an adult, learn this. Most bosses would fire you for it after the first offense. Hold your tongue and learn to be respectful to those in positions of authority. 

When you are with another person, leave your phone in your bag. It's rude to be on your phone when in the company of others.


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## horselovinguy

Horsesr4life said:


> I’m just asking for advice on how to fix my attitude because it’s making me feel awful and I love my trainer so so much





Horsesr4life said:


> I’m not trying to excuse my self from my behavior or seem proud of it at all. I am very ashamed and came on here looking for advice on how to watch my tone and attitude.



I think this is all the help you need...
You already know what it is you are doing in error....


When growing up my dad had a sign in his workshop that stated,* "Engage brain before mouth"*
That about says it all....
_Think* first* before you say or do..._
:runninghorse2:... 

_jmo..._


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## waresbear

How are you around your parents and teachers? I was a bit of mouthpiece around certain adults I didn't like, but I liked all the horse instructors/trainers I worked with. If I liked you, I was respectful, if I didn't, I mouthed it up.


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## Horsef

Horsesr4life said:


> I’m not trying to use being a teen as an excuse!! I’m looking for advice on how to stop my attitude. I’m trying to do the right thing here.


You are more than half way there. You recognized the issue and you are asking for help. It means you are growing up and your introspection powers are starting to kick in.

Children have their parents to regulate them. Adults have to regulate themselves and the most important step is being able to recognize your flaws (everyone has them). The rest is relatively easy, just don’t do it.

I have to say this relationship is a bit muddled and your trainer, being an adult, should have put up the boundaries and not allowed himself to be drawn into drama. Nevertheless, you are becoming an adult and you can fix this.

My suggestion is to recalibrate how you view your trainer. Think of him as your doctor, a professional who offers a service that you (rather, your parents) pay for. Would you start this nonsense with your doctor? Of course not, he’d throw you out of his practice so fast your head would spin. Remember that your trainer has the same power, even if he didn’t choose to excersise it so far. But he could at any moment. Before you speak, think of your doctor. Would you use that tone with your doctor? Would you use those words with your doctor? If not, rephrase whatever you wanted to say or just keep quiet.


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## Acadianartist

My daughter is a teenager, and doesn't spend hardly any time on her phone. And it's not because I have rules about it either -- she just chooses not to waste her life away staring at a screen. And she would NEVER in a million years be sassy with her riding instructor! The very thought of it... omg, she'd be done riding in no time. I mean, done for good, at least with that instructor. 

I just say that so you realize that not all teenagers behave this way, since you appear to think it's normal teenage behavior. It doesn't have to be. You will not get very far in life with that attitude, but as Horsef mentioned, you have already taken the first step to fix it, so good for you. 

Maybe just stop and think about it before you get sassy or whip out your phone. Be respectful of this person you say you LOVE. He's trying to help you and you're acting like a brat, so just stop and think. And if you still blow up at times, apologize. Every morning, wake up trying to do better, and every night, think about how your day went, and whether you did a good job being respectful. You'll feel much better about yourself as a person.


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## tinyliny

Horsesr4life said:


> Thank you so much, but he isn’t abusing me at all. Nothing inappropriate going on at all, and he has a boyfriend. He is a very close family friend who helps me out when I don’t want to be at home. And we don’t eat at his house, we go to a restaurant to get food. I never feel uncomfortable around him. And like I stated before, he does have every right to yell at me.





ok. so you are saying he is a gay man, and is not making any kind of sexual advances on you. ok.


But, a relationship that consists of one person repeatedly yelling at another isn't a very healthy one.


Either he has to learn how to act like an adult, or you do. Both of you acting like teens isn't so hot, IMO.


If you are sassy, and he yells at you, ok. you deserved it. It's a form of discipline, I suppose. But, if this happens over and over again, then it's a relationship with a bad cycle to it, and is no longer discipline, but abuse. NO ONE benefits from that. If it were me, watching this, I'd tell him to eitther stop yelling at you, and find another way of getting you to smarten up, or, drop you from his program, since one or two 'yells' is not making a difference in your behavior.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Horsesr4life said:


> You are right, he’s not being inappropriate at all. I acknowledge everything I’ve done wrong and am looking for help on how to stop having an attitude. Not trying to get sympathy from it. It’s starting to make me feel awful.


We can't tell you how to fix your attitude. Only you can decide whether to be a rude, insolent, miserable wretch or to be a delightful, happy, respectful individual. My daddy was a great one for life sayings. He'd say, "You can get glad in the same shoes you got mad in.", in other words get over yourself. His cure for a bad attitude was hard work, he'd send us out to pick weeds in the yards and pastures or over to our Uncle Joe's to pick cotton if we were REALLY awful. That usually guaranteed an immediate attitude change. Other times we'd get grounded and have privileges removed, like no horses, no barn, no shows, for XXX amount of time. That one was probably the worst punishment of all. He also wasn't above taking a belt to a backside if it was a necessary thing. That was HIS last resort and I think hurt him worse than us. 

I think the ONE thing that's different in how you and I were raised is, I would NEVER ever even THINK about yelling at an elder. PERIOD. For one thing, that would have gotten me backhanded (and did the one time I tried it) and that was absolutely no fun. 

So in my daddy's words, "Suck it up, Buttercup. One of these days you'll have kids of your own and you'll find out that Karma has its teeth fastened firmly on your backside.". Oh that just reminded me of another one. When he could tell that one of us was thinking of going where Angels would fear to tread, he'd say, "When you grab a tiger by the tail, just remember that there are teeth in the other end.".


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## sarahfromsc

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> We can't tell you how to fix your attitude. Only you can decide whether to be a rude, insolent, miserable wretch or to be a delightful, happy, respectful individual. My daddy was a great one for life sayings. He'd say, "You can get glad in the same shoes you got mad in.", in other words get over yourself. His cure for a bad attitude was hard work, he'd send us out to pick weeds in the yards and pastures or over to our Uncle Joe's to pick cotton if we were REALLY awful. That usually guaranteed an immediate attitude change. Other times we'd get grounded and have privileges removed, like no horses, no barn, no shows, for XXX amount of time. That one was probably the worst punishment of all. He also wasn't above taking a belt to a backside if it was a necessary thing. That was HIS last resort and I think hurt him worse than us.
> 
> I think the ONE thing that's different in how you and I were raised is, I would NEVER ever even THINK about yelling at an elder. PERIOD. For one thing, that would have gotten me backhanded (and did the one time I tried it) and that was absolutely no fun.
> 
> So in my daddy's words, "Suck it up, Buttercup. One of these days you'll have kids of your own and you'll find out that Karma has its teeth fastened firmly on your backside.". Oh that just reminded me of another one. When he could tell that one of us was thinking of going where Angels would fear to tread, he'd say, "When you grab a tiger by the tail, just remember that there are teeth in the other end.".


Most of us over the age of 50 never even dreamt of talking back to a teacher, parents, coach, because the would have punished us....with our parents resounding consent. Children today don’t seem to have that same respect for any authority.

I also cared about how I was perceived in public and didn’t want to embarrass my family. So, maybe there was more sense of pride for the family name back in the day.

OP, only you can change you. Random strangers in the internet can’t.


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## Acadianartist

sarahfromsc said:


> Most of us over the age of 50 never even dreamt of talking back to a teacher, parents, coach, because the would have punished us....with our parents resounding consent. Children today don’t seem to have that same respect for any authority.
> 
> I also cared about how I was perceived in public and didn’t want to embarrass my family. So, maybe there was more sense of pride for the family name back in the day.


Again, I would like to point out that not ALL children and teens behave like this. Generalizing this behavior to an entire generation will only make the OP think it is normal. It is not. Unless kids in the US are far worse than kids in Canada, but I have had a house full of pre-teens, and now teens for many a sleepover, and each and every one of them was polite and respectful. This isn't a generational problem, it's a bad attitude the OP has to fix. And her trainer is not helping by trying to be her friend instead of exerting proper authority. She's be banned from further lessons until she fixes her attitude if I were her trainer.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I also have had a very strict Southern upbringing. I was taught to say, "Yes sir, no sir and yes ma'am, no ma'am" and there would be Hades to pay if I didn't. We were also taught to never "make a scene". That was one of the WORST things a kid could do. That and "Th'owin' a Wall Eyed Fit" were guaranteed to get your backside warmed. Most of the kids I ride with now are still brought up that same way, so no, the bad attitude is not endemic and when it rears its ugly head down here, the kids still learn there are consequences. 

It's funny that everyone is saying the trainer shouldn't be her 'friend'. Jack (my trainer) never tried to be my best friend, but over the years, I would count him and his family to be some of the best friends I've had along the way. They were just some awesome people and I'm grateful that I got to ride with him. It was a real privilege.


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## LoriF

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I also have had a very strict Southern upbringing. I was taught to say, "Yes sir, no sir and yes ma'am, no ma'am" and there would be Hades to pay if I didn't. We were also taught to never "make a scene". That was one of the WORST things a kid could do. That and "Th'owin' a Wall Eyed Fit" were guaranteed to get your backside warmed. Most of the kids I ride with now are still brought up that same way, so no, the bad attitude is not endemic and when it rears its ugly head down here, the kids still learn there are consequences.
> 
> It's funny that everyone is saying the trainer shouldn't be her 'friend'. Jack (my trainer) never tried to be my best friend, but over the years, I would count him and his family to be some of the best friends I've had along the way. They were just some awesome people and I'm grateful that I got to ride with him. It was a real privilege.


I don't remember this but my dad told me the story. I threw one of those "wall eyed fits" in a store when I was two years old. He took me over to the furniture dept. and sat down on the couch and put my over his knees and paddled my little butt. He says that I never did it again. lol 

Yeah, sassing back was a huge no no in my household. By the time I was a late teen and wanted to do things my own way, I instinctively knew that I had better have my own place if I wanted to do my own thing. And I did just that.


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## sarahfromsc

Acadianartist said:


> Again, I would like to point out that not ALL children and teens behave like this. Generalizing this behavior to an entire generation will only make the OP think it is normal. It is not. Unless kids in the US are far worse than kids in Canada, but I have had a house full of pre-teens, and now teens for many a sleepover, and each and every one of them was polite and respectful. This isn't a generational problem, it's a bad attitude the OP has to fix. And her trainer is not helping by trying to be her friend instead of exerting proper authority. She's be banned from further lessons until she fixes her attitude if I were her trainer.


I raised a few kids myself. Raising them alone I expected proper behavior, and they complied; however there were a few in their groups that were mouthy to say the lest. And the stories they would tell about how some of the kids talked back to teachers, coachs, and their parents had my jaw on the floor. So I will stand by my comment. It is a huge difference in way kids today talk to people older than they are versus my childhood of the 60’s and 70’s. Generally, there is a lack of respect. Social media maybe? 

Eating dinner out, or going to a movie, it amazes me the sass the kids will give their parents or authority figures. Even my grown kids think it is hideous and tell people I would have buried them under the daylilies if they had talked rudely to an adult.

Maybe I generalized all kids, but you did the same with your US kids being worse than Canadian kids comment.


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## sarahfromsc

Same with the Southern upbringing. We could call adults that were close to our family Miss Mary, or Mr. John. If they were not close friends to my mom, it was Mr. Smith, or Mrs. Smith. Even at my advanced age, it still use Mr. or Mrs. if the person is older than I. To me it is a sign of respect.

The biggie was children were seen and not heard. If neighbors got together for a BBQ, or bonfire, the kids went off and played while the adults conversed. If a child needed to ask a parent something, that child stood by the parents elbow and waited to be acknowledged. What I see today at such functions is kids barging in the middle of a conversation amoung adults and getting right in the parents face.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

sarahfromsc said:


> Same with the Southern upbringing. We could call adults that were close to our family Miss Mary, or Mr. John. If they were not close friends to my mom, it was Mr. Smith, or Mrs. Smith. Even at my advanced age, it still use Mr. or Mrs. if the person is older than I. To me it is a sign of respect.
> 
> The biggie was children were seen and not heard. If neighbors got together for a BBQ, or bonfire, the kids went off and played while the adults conversed. If a child needed to ask a parent something, that child stood by the parents elbow and waited to be acknowledged. What I see today at such functions is kids barging in the middle of a conversation amoung adults and getting right in the parents face.


I still use Mr. This and Miz That, you're right it is a sign of respect, just like yes ma'am and no ma'am. Most of the kids I ride with are very polite and easy to get along with, I enjoy them a lot. I know that I'm lucky, I have seen some others who were not so nice, but they aren't in my barn (thank Heaven). My trainer has a couple of 'working' students who are just delightful, very intelligent and always looking to learn more. I really enjoy sitting down and talking to them.


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## JoBlueQuarter

Acadianartist said:


> Again, I would like to point out that not ALL children and teens behave like this. Generalizing this behavior to an entire generation will only make the OP think it is normal. It is not. Unless kids in the US are far worse than kids in Canada, but I have had a house full of pre-teens, and now teens for many a sleepover, and each and every one of them was polite and respectful. This isn't a generational problem, it's a bad attitude the OP has to fix. And her trainer is not helping by trying to be her friend instead of exerting proper authority. She's be banned from further lessons until she fixes her attitude if I were her trainer.


Thank you for pointing that out, my friend.  All the teens I know are polite, respectful, and intelligent kids - not at all like the stereotypical image teens nowadays seem to hold.



sarahfromsc said:


> Maybe I generalized all kids, but you did the same with your US kids being worse than Canadian kids comment.


I believe that was a joke


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## Horsef

I second the idea that this isn’t a general attitude. My husband started a junior rugby team for 12 to 16-year olds. These boys were very polite. There were some kids from troubled families (seriously troubled, not just a lack of concentrated effort at parenting) but I was a witness of the other boys regulating the offenders. The guy with the worst attitude problem tried bullying one of the smaller boys. He got himself a good beating at the hands of his team mates. I don’t approve of violence but their hearts were in the right place. Not one of those boys would dream of mouthing off to adults, not even the troubled ones. Likewise, the girls I ride with are polite to a fault, even the one girl with autism who tries really hard to wrap her head around proper social interactions. 

So, OP, if a girl with autism and a boy who’s mother has died and who’s father is a late-stage alcoholic can get it together, so can you.


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## Foxhunter

Teens get a bad press in general yet there are way more good ones than bad. 

I often had a group of children, usually 12 up to 16, stay with me if we had a show the next day and an early start. Admittedly this was a long time ago but had I written about it I don't think anyone would have thought it possibly abusive. (The reason was that a lot of the children's parents weren't in the tourist business and an ear,y start was needed without having to chauffeur the children to the stables)

Even today, children in my care are under *my rules*parents are told this, if they don't like it, find someone else to care for their children. I treat children the same as I treat the animals, firm, fair and fun. Odd how they congregate around me. "Can we come and walk with you and the dogs? Can we help you in the garden?"

Last summer the house next door which is used for holiday lets, had the teen grandson of the owner and three of his pals come for a week, all teens, they were fine in general but one evening whilst having a barbecue the language was disgusting. I couldn't see them through the bamboo hedge but I sure as heck could hear them. I told them to stop with the cussing. It did for a bit and then started again. 

I warned them again and when I got a very rude retort back, I never said a word. I picked up two buckets of water from the collecting barrel walked around and soaked all four of them and put the fire out washing their food off the grill. 

Their faces were a picture. No more cussing.

I do not ask for respect, I demand it.


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## ZeroxCypher

Foxhunter said:


> Teens get a bad press in general yet there are way more good ones than bad.
> 
> I often had a group of children, usually 12 up to 16, stay with me if we had a show the next day and an early start. Admittedly this was a long time ago but had I written about it I don't think anyone would have thought it possibly abusive. (The reason was that a lot of the children's parents weren't in the tourist business and an ear,y start was needed without having to chauffeur the children to the stables)
> 
> Even today, children in my care are under *my rules*parents are told this, if they don't like it, find someone else to care for their children. I treat children the same as I treat the animals, firm, fair and fun. Odd how they congregate around me. "Can we come and walk with you and the dogs? Can we help you in the garden?"
> 
> Last summer the house next door which is used for holiday lets, had the teen grandson of the owner and three of his pals come for a week, all teens, they were fine in general but one evening whilst having a barbecue the language was disgusting. I couldn't see them through the bamboo hedge but I sure as heck could hear them. I told them to stop with the cussing. It did for a bit and then started again.
> 
> I warned them again and when I got a very rude retort back, I never said a word. I picked up two buckets of water from the collecting barrel walked around and soaked all four of them and put the fire out washing their food off the grill.
> 
> Their faces were a picture. No more cussing.
> 
> I do not ask for respect, I demand it.


Loved the story, that was priceless. c: 

This was a very interesting thread to read. But as someone who has dealt with attitude issues and gotten over them, it really is truly just a "look at yourself in the mirror, see the ugly, admit the ugly, and make a conscious effort to do better" type fix. As a trainer myself, I can say that maybe your trainer is more frustrated because your attitude makes you unteachable.


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## Foxhunter

I have pondered as to why life is going so awry with many children of today. 

The kids cannot be blamed but the parenting. Why? 

My parents went through _real_ hardship, born at the end of WW1 then the depression so they knew what it was like to go without as children. My father told us that there were times when all he had to eat all day was a slice of bread and lard. 

Then WW2 and the rationing even after the war. Marriage and children so, it is understandable that those parents wanted to give their children things that hey hadn't known. This in turn led to _my_ generation doing the same. The big difference being that my generation knew discipline, caught doing wrong by any adult and you were in trouble. Any adult had the right to tell any child off, complaints to parents led to another telling off and very, very rarely was the adult offering the discipline in any bother. 

The old sayings do ring true, _It takes a couple to make a child but a village to make a man_ for one, the other that comes to mind _Spare the rod, spoil the child. _

To may adults are afraid to teach the word NO, to put the early effort into coping with temper tantrums but take the easy way of giving in for the sake of peace. 

Me? I have never had children but always had them around me. They are no different to train than horses and dogs. No grey areas, consequences for their actions, which seem to be missing today.


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## Acadianartist

Foxhunter said:


> I have pondered as to why life is going so awry with many children of today.
> 
> The kids cannot be blamed but the parenting. Why?
> 
> 
> The old sayings do ring true, _It takes a couple to make a child but a village to make a man_ for one, the other that comes to mind _Spare the rod, spoil the child. _
> 
> To may adults are afraid to teach the word NO, to put the early effort into coping with temper tantrums but take the easy way of giving in for the sake of peace.
> 
> Me? I have never had children but always had them around me. They are no different to train than horses and dogs. No grey areas, consequences for their actions, which seem to be missing today.


I have a 13 and a 15 year old. I have never laid a hand on them, nor would I ever think of doing so. Yet I have no discipline issues. They are both hard working, do well in school, always say please and thank you. They do not cuss, break things, or bully others. Other parents often remark to me how well-behaved my kids are. Yet again, I NEVER hit them. I was consistent, just like I am with my animals. They have never even asked for a treat at the store, not even when they were little. My son did have some tantrums when he was very young, but I just dug in my heels, and let him throw his fits, but never gave in. He quickly learned they got him nowhere. I taught them to help out around the house because that's what we do. I taught them to respect others' feelings because they know it hurts when people are mean to you. I taught them to help out our elderly neighbor because she's alone, so my son will walk over on his own and shovel her steps without even telling us. My daughter and I volunteered to tutor a Syrian refugee family each week for a year, so she learned that some kids have had a pretty hard life compared to her. I've eavesdropped on their conversations fearing the worst, but never heard anything inappropriate that would make me cringe. 

In my experience, I'm not alone, since my kids' friends -- with a few exceptions -- all behave with respect towards others. I've only had to deal with one or two who lacked manners in my house, and they were quickly put in their place with a few firm words. Nothing more. And if it didn't change, they weren't welcome in my house anymore. Usually, my kids would stop hanging around with them anyway, because that's not the kind of friend they want.

I also teach university and deal with first year students each year. I have been doing this for 20 years now. This generation does often lack the motivation required to really work hard at something, but that can be cultivated. Physical work is largely unknown to them, that's true. But they often work part-time jobs while in university, often several (I did too, that's nothing new). However, they are probably the most empathetic generation yet. They accept that people can have different gender choices and sexual orientations. They don't make fun of those who have physical or mental handicaps, but try to include them in their activities. They try to reach out to those who are struggling, and genuinely feel good about helping them. They reject violence in all its forms, and rally around a cause despite the fact that it is often a David vs Goliath situation.

I say all this because it's easy to bash the younger generation. Every generation criticizes the one that comes after them. But I don't think it helps anyone to just focus on the negatives. Each generation also has its strengths, and this one is dealing with economic insecurity and a planet that has been destroyed by the previous generations. They are dealing with more complex pressures than any generation before. We should remember that when we say they're a spoiled rotten generation because throwing away a whole group because of a few bad apples is never useful, and is certainly not fair to the good ones. (this is not aimed at you @Foxhunter, just a general comment)

I'll get of my high horse now, but back to the OP, YOU choose the person you become. You're young, and impatient, and may also be feeling the hormones of youth, which can be hard to overcome at your age. But you know it's wrong to be disrespectful, so change it. Take a good look at yourself in the mirror every day, and see if you like that person. It is a lifelong journey, but at least you're willing to take a good, hard look at yourself and try to change. That's more than some adults are willing to do!


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## Foxhunter

Acadianartist said:


> I have a 13 and a 15 year old. I have never laid a hand on them, nor would I ever think of doing so. Yet I have no discipline issues. They are both hard working, do well in school, always say please and thank you. They do not cuss, break things, or bully others. Other parents often remark to me how well-behaved my kids are. Yet again, I NEVER hit them. I was consistent, just like I am with my animals. They have never even asked for a treat at the store, not even when they were little. My son did have some tantrums when he was very young, but I just dug in my heels, and let him throw his fits, but never gave in. He quickly learned they got him nowhere. I taught them to help out around the house because that's what we do. I taught them to respect others' feelings because they know it hurts when people are mean to you. I taught them to help out our elderly neighbor because she's alone, so my son will walk over on his own and shovel her steps without even telling us. My daughter and I volunteered to tutor a Syrian refugee family each week for a year, so she learned that some kids have had a pretty hard life compared to her. I've eavesdropped on their conversations fearing the worst, but never heard anything inappropriate that would make me cringe.
> 
> In my experience, I'm not alone, since my kids' friends -- with a few exceptions -- all behave with respect towards others. I've only had to deal with one or two who lacked manners in my house, and they were quickly put in their place with a few firm words. Nothing more. And if it didn't change, they weren't welcome in my house anymore. Usually, my kids would stop hanging around with them anyway, because that's not the kind of friend they want.
> .


In an earlier post I did state that teens get a bad press and there are more good kids than bad. 

I am not advocating physical violence at all, it is a saying and means consequences for your actions. 

I did get smacked across the bottom, top of the legs or top of the arm as a child. Very rarely, one look with 'those' eyes and I generally towed the line! 

Last time my mother slapped me was one Christmas. I was 22, I said that my father was ****ed (which he was, his annual bout of drinking) Mum grabbed my wrist and pulled my arm straight and slapped me three time hard. 

My reaction? I cried, not because it hurt that much but an automatic reaction at her wrath! 

Then the same word come on the TV! Mum immediately apologised saying she had no right to slap me. Me, I could have knocked her across the room but the thought never crossed my mind. 

My sister's children are great young adults with good work ethics, as are their friends. They didn't get spanked but a lot of work went into their upbringing.


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## Horsef

This is great topic, not only on a personal level for OP.

I don’t think that the young generation is a bunch of brats. They live in very fluid times and they are keeping up with all these fundamental changes much better than we are (even though our generation is the one who started them). Internet has changed the way human society works. And it’s nowhere close to being done yet. 

The thing is, respect for our elders was ingrained in humans because those elders did know better than the young ones. They always had more relevant knowledge and experience in important things. These days we don’t even know what those important things are any more. Young people see most adults floundering and grasping at straws, trying to make sense of the new world and are rightly questioning our authority. Obviously, I’m not talking about “sass”, that’s still wrong


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## SueC

Dear @*Horsesr4life* 

Do you have a guidance counsellor or school psychologist at your school? A lot of the adults in these roles can be really good value when you are trying to figure something out - and it's possible to snaggle an appointment without the whole school knowing about it! ;-) They can mentor you through things like this, be a base to come back to, offer ideas and strategies for how to go about becoming who you want to be.

Also they can help clarify situations. It does not sound good to me that an adult is systematically yelling at an adolescent, and this whole push-ups thing... it's not the army, it's horse-riding training, no? If you're rude, an adult can adopt "No manners, no service" - and send you on your way. Just like any other professional, like your doctor. Doctors don't yell at rude patients or make them do push-ups, they show them the door. They wouldn't keep their medical licenses long if they behaved like that.

Good role models are helpful for adopting good behaviour. Is there a well-mannered, friendly person you look up to? Because they can teach you how it's done.

Often it's not as simple as just wanting to do it - habits are ingrained, and can take some shifting. Thankfully, the good habits with which you can replace bad habits are also stubborn to shift once adopted!  Which reminds me - focusing on the positive things is also really important. This is true when training animals, when dealing with other people, and when dealing with ourselves. Encourage and nurture positive things in yourself. What are your best characteristics? Acknowledge these, and build on them. It can be really helpful to have a little diary in which you list, at the end of each day, the three things you did best today, and something you managed to do differently. It will help you feel good about it. When you start making progress in shifting a bad habit, celebrate this. It's not easy to change. If instead you were to beat yourself up each time you repeat an old pattern, it gives more power to the old pattern, and encourages you to think of yourself as an incorrigibly "bad person" - which can really get in the way. You're a work in progress, work on it. Treat yourself and other people decently.

If you're interested in this kind of stuff, you can always watch a few episodes of "Brat Camp" or "World's Strictest Parents" (or even "Supernanny" ) to see some approaches some adults have for really challenging behaviour (including extremely bratty teenagers) - and to see the other side of the equation. It'll give you something to compare yourself to as well - where are you on the scale? Where are you going on the scale?

The buck stops with you. While humans are not always _to blame_ for their behaviour, because they mightn't have had good boundaries or role modelling, they always do have a choice, and are always _responsible_ for their own behaviour - for working on improvements, which is a bit like practicing the piano. You're not going to play any better unless you practice, practice, practice, and don't allow yourself to be set back when it's not easy. Keep with it, persistence is important.

Caterpillars can turn into lovely butterflies.

Very best wishes

Sue


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## QtrBel

It all depends on the community, parental support(and this doesn't have to be the parent) and who their friends are. There was a time when you could walk in a classroom and the one whose name you remembered from here on out was the bad apple. Now it is the reverse. Part of it is social media, part is upbringing, part is lack of church or community involvement, part is school administration that feels they need to also be the "best friend" and part is the parent that doesn't get you can't be your child's friend while he/she is a child and needing that guidance. Friendship comes later. Respect starts at home. And NO means NO. Kids model what they live (what is modeled for them). Excusing bad behavior is also a big part of the problem. @*JoBlueQuarter* "All the teens I know are polite, respectful, and intelligent kids - not at all like the stereotypical image teens nowadays seem to hold." I so wish this were so in the classrooms I am in. Not the case.

@*SueC* "The buck stops with you. While humans are not always _to blame_ for their behaviour, because they mightn't have had good boundaries or role modelling, they always do have a choice, and are always _responsible_ for their own behaviour - for working on improvements, which is a bit like practicing the piano. You're not going to play any better unless you practice, practice, practice, and don't allow yourself to be set back when it's not easy. Keep with it, persistence is important." 



THIS^^^^^


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## SueC

QtrBel said:


> ..*.part is school administration that feels they need to also be the "best friend"* and part is the parent that doesn't get you can't be your child's friend while he/she is a child and needing that guidance. Friendship comes later. Respect starts at home. And NO means NO. *Kids model what they live (what is modeled for them). Excusing bad behavior is also a big part of the problem*



That is spot on, and I feel for you, @*QtrBel* . School administrations who excuse poor behaviour result in untenable situations for teachers and students alike. In the very worst situations, you end up with schools where bad behaviour and rioting are "normal" - and people can't teach, and well-behaved kids are deprived of their education, and the whole thing is a Sodom&Gomorrah and an incubator for a shocking bunch of adults down the track. Best school discipline system I ever had the pleasure to work under was at Australind Senior High School in the late 1990s. 1200 kids, troubled suburb, and they had the bit you cited front and centre of their policy like no other school I've ever taught at.

The buck stops with you. While humans are not always _to blame_ for their behaviour, because they mightn't have had good boundaries or role modelling, they always do have a choice, and are always _responsible_ for their own behaviour - for working on improvements.

Everyone was responsible for their own behaviour - teachers weren't seen as people who had to "control the kids" - they were seen as the people who educated in their subject areas, and the kids were responsible for controlling _themselves_, and totally expected to. The two big concepts at that school were _respect and responsibility_. Education was seen as a privilege, and students had to act responsibly and respectfully to be in the classroom at all. Everyone - students and teachers - had rights and responsibilities - no responsibility, no right.

It was a simple system, and nobody had to shout or get stressed, nor did students who wanted to learn get interrupted by the antics of those who did not. If someone stepped out of line, and didn't immediately pull their socks up - or if someone was insulting to someone else, no matter who - they were instantly handed a ticket out of the room, which resulted in them ending up in "buddy class" - you'd send a Year 8 to a Year 11 or Year 12 group, or vice versa - uncomfortable change in peer group, no reinforcement - instead of being a hero to certain people in your peer group for stepping out of line and stopping the traffic, they immediately had quite the converse experience in the group they were being sent to, and had to sit at a designated desk and work on their paperwork - not their schoolwork, but the paperwork on the ticket (double-sided A4), which reminded them of the school rules and worked them step-by-step through what went wrong, with questions they had to answer in writing, including reflecting on who had been affected adversely by their behaviour and whose rights they had infringed, etc, and then a voluntary behaviour contract they signed outlining what they'd done wrong and how they'd do it differently from now on.

The ticketing system only took maybe 10 seconds to administrate, as a teacher, to get a rude person out of the classroom. And they went without arguing further, because this was a school-wide system that had full teamwork support by all teachers and administration. There was simply no way a kid could get out of it. If they carried on instead of leaving quietly, they would be collected from class by admin, who would then immediately call in the parents to discuss and to collect their kid (who would wait with the paperwork meanwhile; and if the parents didn't turn up then the kid was in time out until they did, and social services were called, etc). There was no way an offending student would ever come back into that classroom with that teacher until they had filled out their paperwork, and had gone to apologise to the teacher and sit and discuss the paperwork with them (in their own time - lunch or recess). This didn't take long - if the right stuff was on the paperwork and the student was genuinely apologetic, you shook on it and as the teacher you made sure you told them they were welcome as a person, it was the behaviour that had been the issue. And it was blank slate when the student returned - the issue was treated as sorted, unless it recurred. If the kid wasn't ready to deal, you simply sent them away to work on it some more, and they would be back in buddy class next time your class was on. (It only affected the class in which the student had done the wrong thing.) And the kids in buddy class would be like, "What, you've come back??? You've not worked this out???"

If the next buddy class didn't result in the right response, the kid went to time-out and was then considered ineligible for any education until they had made amends - parents called in, social services if necessary.

Teachers were not burdened with the paperwork for the behaviour incidents - students were, since it was considered unacceptable that a teacher divert time away from educational tasks to behaviour management that was the responsibility of the student himself/herself. And it meant classes were taught in a civilised atmosphere, and since the boundaries were really strong, you could be ultra warm and funny and engaging and relaxed as a teacher, and you could model the very respect that the community was trying to teach. It was really excellent.

I've heard people from the "excuse" schools or the "three strikes" schools (one strike, in the Australind system - instant consequence, no time wasting, no game playing, no "but I've only done it twice and you can't do anything yet") say, "Well, our whole school would be in the time-out room." But at Australind, there were only ever a maximum of 5 kids out of the 1200 in the actual time-out room, and the maximum number of students I ever sent to buddy class in one session was 4 out of 32, because the settling down effect on the class was so instant.

It worked because the staff were united on it, the administration was totally united with the teaching staff, the consequences were instant, you could not beat the system, and because most students, when they experience learning in a respectful atmosphere and teachers modelling respect and teaching with spark, enjoy that kind of experience, and enjoy being successful at things, which this system fostered. The whole system was one that spent maximum time and energy on positive behaviour, mutual respect and decent education, and minimum time on negative stuff.

Now if only!  If only more school administrations used that system. Unfortunately, there are some people who think that everything must stop and everyone's rights must be walked on until some issue in one student's life has been resolved. It doesn't work. By the way, the students who went through the system and had real troubles also got a lot of support from the school psychologist etc if they genuinely wanted to change their behaviour. :cowboy:


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## JoBlueQuarter

Acadianartist said:


> I have a 13 and a 15 year old. I have never laid a hand on them, nor would I ever think of doing so. Yet I have no discipline issues. They are both hard working, do well in school, always say please and thank you. They do not cuss, break things, or bully others. Other parents often remark to me how well-behaved my kids are. Yet again, I NEVER hit them. I was consistent, just like I am with my animals. They have never even asked for a treat at the store, not even when they were little. My son did have some tantrums when he was very young, but I just dug in my heels, and let him throw his fits, but never gave in. He quickly learned they got him nowhere. I taught them to help out around the house because that's what we do. I taught them to respect others' feelings because they know it hurts when people are mean to you. I taught them to help out our elderly neighbor because she's alone, so my son will walk over on his own and shovel her steps without even telling us. My daughter and I volunteered to tutor a Syrian refugee family each week for a year, so she learned that some kids have had a pretty hard life compared to her. I've eavesdropped on their conversations fearing the worst, but never heard anything inappropriate that would make me cringe.
> 
> In my experience, I'm not alone, since my kids' friends -- with a few exceptions -- all behave with respect towards others. I've only had to deal with one or two who lacked manners in my house, and they were quickly put in their place with a few firm words. Nothing more. And if it didn't change, they weren't welcome in my house anymore. Usually, my kids would stop hanging around with them anyway, because that's not the kind of friend they want.
> 
> I also teach university and deal with first year students each year. I have been doing this for 20 years now. This generation does often lack the motivation required to really work hard at something, but that can be cultivated. Physical work is largely unknown to them, that's true. But they often work part-time jobs while in university, often several (I did too, that's nothing new). However, they are probably the most empathetic generation yet. They accept that people can have different gender choices and sexual orientations. They don't make fun of those who have physical or mental handicaps, but try to include them in their activities. They try to reach out to those who are struggling, and genuinely feel good about helping them. They reject violence in all its forms, and rally around a cause despite the fact that it is often a David vs Goliath situation.
> 
> I say all this because it's easy to bash the younger generation. Every generation criticizes the one that comes after them. But I don't think it helps anyone to just focus on the negatives. Each generation also has its strengths, and this one is dealing with economic insecurity and a planet that has been destroyed by the previous generations. They are dealing with more complex pressures than any generation before. We should remember that when we say they're a spoiled rotten generation because throwing away a whole group because of a few bad apples is never useful, and is certainly not fair to the good ones. (this is not aimed at you @Foxhunter, just a general comment)
> 
> I'll get of my high horse now, but back to the OP, YOU choose the person you become. You're young, and impatient, and may also be feeling the hormones of youth, which can be hard to overcome at your age. But you know it's wrong to be disrespectful, so change it. Take a good look at yourself in the mirror every day, and see if you like that person. It is a lifelong journey, but at least you're willing to take a good, hard look at yourself and try to change. That's more than some adults are willing to do!


Not to be repetitive, but thank you for saying this! I feel like some people have a crooked idea of how to raise a kid right. I have always had issues with the "Spare the rod, spoil the child" quote. It's not a "hit a child = good child" kinda thing. I have nothing against physically disciplining a child, if needed, unless you think that that's it. There's more that goes alongside discipline in the upbringing of a child. And without the other "ingredients" it's nothing more than abuse. To a certain degree, I believe it's a lot like working with horses and other animals (^"I was consistent, just like I am with my animals."^), but that's just my crooked "horse-controlled" view of everything. 


Anyway, OP, I still don't have anything to add regarding your question - everyone else has already said what needs to be said, I just wanted to chime in as you could say I'm somewhat passionate about the above subject. 

Good luck, OP!


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## SueC

@JoBlueQuarter, I know people who interpret the rod not as something to beat someone with, but as guidance - like the rod for the sheep. In the original situation with shepherds and sheep, it's a direction-pointer, not something a shepherd beats the sheep with!  Unfortunately, some people seem to cite it as a justification for violence. And I can understand why you'd be passionate about that, and good for you!


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## JoBlueQuarter

Good point, @SueC. Interpreted like that I fully agree with and support the statement! Someone I know always uses the saying for justification with children and that... is no good.


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## Golden Horse

Horsesr4life said:


> They support my trainer 110% and I do but I just want advice on how to watch my attitude



Clarity in communication is always good...

You started a thread saying “l need advice about my trainer”

You were given advice, and asked a lot of questions, and you become kind of defensive, and now say you want advice about yourself, not your trainer.

Advice is the same on both threads you currently have running...

First step of any change is do identify what the issue is, and you have done that, you have a crappy attitude, and a phone addiction. These are things that only you can change...leave for phone at home sometimes, it’s amazing, last time I forgot mine I cleaned my tack and my boots rather than chatting on my phone while she was eating her feed!


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## Foxhunter

SueC said:


> @JoBlueQuarter, I know people who interpret the rod not as something to beat someone with, but as guidance - like the rod for the sheep. In the original situation with shepherds and sheep, it's a direction-pointer, not something a shepherd beats the sheep with!  Unfortunately, some people seem to cite it as a justification for violence. And I can understand why you'd be passionate about that, and good for you!


More shepherds crooks should be used around children, the crook end can be used to hook them around the ankle or neck as with sheep! 

Stops them dead! :evil: :grin:


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## SueC

:rofl: @*Foxhunter* ! Also, that was so funny about the water bucket, hahaha!  Very creative solution!


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## Acadianartist

@SueC that is a brilliant, brilliant system! Every school system in the world should adopt it. What a great way to eliminate disruptive behavior.


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## Zexious

I don't think generalization is useful in this situation, but I don't feel that comparison is, either. Saying "my students/my daughter/her friends xyz," while forwarding the discussion as a whole, isn't really helpful to OP.

I think it's important to look at what's presented, and consider this an individual case.
I agree with a lot of what's been said in the thread, OP: the only one who can change you is you. You have to make a conscious decision to think before you speak, to step away from the phone (maybe leave your phone in your trunk when you're at the barn? That's what I do. That way, itt's there in case of an emergency, but it's not at your side where you can get every notification, call, and text.), and to try to embrace a more mature, kind, and self-aware version of yourself.

That said, I do think your trainer is partially to blame. 
In this case, I feel as though the lines of "authority figure" have been blurred. You refer to him as a family friend, say that you eat out frequently, you say that he yells at you outside of the arena, etcetera. To me, this is the behavior of a friend, not of a trainer. Maybe that's not something that bothers you? If it's not, then focus on your own self improvement. If it does? Then have a discussion with him, or with your parents about ways you can steer back towards a professional relationship, and away from a more casual one.


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## tinyliny

I keep returning to this 'yellling' thing. It's one thing to shout, once or twice, if someone is doing something that needs IMMEDIATE stopping. but, berating, and yelling, over an over again, is toxic. To me, it means that the trainer is not teaching. He is simply allowing his frustration to boil over in an emotional, and not productive manner. It's like people who yell, yank the reins, smack, spur or whip their horse who has misbehaved or made a mistake. The think this is going to cure the problem. No. It creates an even bigger problem. it is NOT discipline, it is self indulgent temper tantruming at the expense of your 'student', and may relieve your pent up anger, but only sets things up for a repeat a bit down the line.


in my life as a parent, I have at times become overwhelmed, felt helpless, and found myself behaving like the trainer; yelling at or hitting my kids. It NEVER made things better. NEVER. It was just me experienceing my anger and helplessness and taking it out on them. That is not parenting or leadership. It's being a weak human being, and I have grown up quite abit from that by now.


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## PoptartShop

When I was a teen, I was very mouthy too. But not towards my trainer, no way.
He doesn't have to put up with your attitude. If you don't want to 'lose' him, then hold your tongue if you feel like you are about to say something rude.

Think before you react.

As for the phone, it can wait. He is taking his time out to train you, & if you are on your phone, it's not doing you any good.
I NEVER had my phone out when I was taking lessons or busy at the barn.

I'm 26 now & I still don't use my phone when I'm at the barn...only for taking pictures of my horse, LOL but that's it. 
It also helps because I don't have a signal at the barn anyway.  

Overall, I think you just need to think before you open your mouth...literally. If you like him so much, then don't treat him that way!


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## katatak

*controlling the sass*

Hi, I think it's great that you're actively seeking some solutions/ideas to your attitude. I think if we were all honest, we all sometimes (even those in our 50s) have an attitude problem, sometimes even with our horses, to the detriment of our training and relationships.
I have found that working with horses has brought that even more into focus and by learning strategies to keep calm with the horse, I have been able to adapt those strategies to my human interactions.
eg. if your horse baulks at something scary while being led, what would happen if you just jerked really hard on the lead? (the equivalent of yelling back in a human verbal argument).....I would expect that the horse would fight harder to go the other way. However, if you were to just wait with the horse, listen and watch for reactions while maintaining the softest of pressure ( the equivalent of expressing your own viewpoint rationally after truly LIstenING to the others' viewpoint ) your horse will probably soon just move nicely past the erstwhile scary thing, and you will have cemented another brick in the wall of your good relationship.

Hope this makes sense?


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## ValerieR

Ok kid, here’s the deal. You need to take a step back and have a good, hard look at yourself. First, you're one lucky, LUCKY kid. Not only do you get to do what you love but you get the guidance of a professional to help you. I spend a good amount of time with foster children and let me tell you, the day I brought one of them out to help me with the horses was the best day that child has had in years and all she got to do was strip stalls and give the mares a carrot. You’re in a unique position that many children would do ANYTHING to be in, and you’re acting like an ungrateful brat. Next, “attitude” isn’t an incurable disease. Everyday you wake up, you can choose to be the kind of person who commits to improving yourself or you can choose to keep it up with this crap attitude that’s already gotten you into enough trouble that you feel the need to ask the internet for help. The fact that this guy hasn’t fired you as a client is an act of mercy that quite frankly I would be hesitant to extend to you. Grow up, learn to respect your superiors, put your phone away and learn something or quit because all you’re doing is wasting time and money otherwise. The time I spent shoveling stalls and hanging on rails at clinics I couldn’t afford to go to was some of the most educational, treasured time of my life. It makes my stomach flip to think that you have the chance to RIDE with someone I’m assuming is good at his profession and you care so little for it. Good news, you can change it. Leave your self-proclaimed "attitude" at the gate and act like you’re worth teaching or you’d be surprised at how quickly people quit caring about your success.


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## farmpony84

ValerieR said:


> Ok kid, here’s the deal. You need to take a step back and have a good, hard look at yourself. First, you're one lucky, LUCKY kid. Not only do you get to do what you love but you get the guidance of a professional to help you. I spend a good amount of time with foster children and let me tell you, the day I brought one of them out to help me with the horses was the best day that child has had in years and all she got to do was strip stalls and give the mares a carrot. You’re in a unique position that many children would do ANYTHING to be in, and you’re acting like an ungrateful brat. Next, “attitude” isn’t an incurable disease. Everyday you wake up, you can choose to be the kind of person who commits to improving yourself or you can choose to keep it up with this crap attitude that’s already gotten you into enough trouble that you feel the need to ask the internet for help. The fact that this guy hasn’t fired you as a client is an act of mercy that quite frankly I would be hesitant to extend to you. Grow up, learn to respect your superiors, put your phone away and learn something or quit because all you’re doing is wasting time and money otherwise. The time I spent shoveling stalls and hanging on rails at clinics I couldn’t afford to go to was some of the most educational, treasured time of my life. It makes my stomach flip to think that you have the chance to RIDE with someone I’m assuming is good at his profession and you care so little for it. Good news, you can change it. Leave your self-proclaimed "attitude" at the gate and act like you’re worth teaching or you’d be surprised at how quickly people quit caring about your success.


The OP admitted she has an attitude. She admitted she talks back and she admitted she uses her phone too much. She is asking for advice on how to fix said behaviors.


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## farmpony84

Advice on how to watch your attitude. That's a tough one if you have been behaving this way for sometime. You can't fix certain behaviors overnight but what you can do is make a mental note. Admitting that you have a problem really is step one so the fact that you know you are being disrespectful is a good sign. 

I'm not sure what kind of music you listen too but I can tell you that I notice a huge difference in how my son acts when he's been listening to rap and when he's been listening to country. The rap tends to have attitude, fighting, and aggressiveness while the country music tends to put you in a respectful mood... sometimes a tough guy mood but I'm ok with that as long as it's respectful. Also the video games change the behavior. So if you have things like that, that you know puts you in a mood then avoid it.

Also, the phone is an addiction! My son plays baseball and the rule is there are no phones on the field. If one kid brings a phone and the coach hears it ring, they are all running laps. So the phone stays in the locker. my suggestion is to leave your phone in your bag unless you are going on trail. You don't need it if you are in a lesson anyway. You don't need it if you are supposed to be listening to your trainer and your friends, they can learn to wait. Send a text and tell them your barn has a no cell phone policy so they don't get teenage mad when you don't respond within 10 seconds.

As for the talking back. Bite your tongue, count to 10, pray. Praying helps me keep my mouth shut big time. It also helps with attitude. Day dream if you have to. I'm assuming you are back talking when you are being lectured over something. I used to go inside myself when I was being lectured. I would nod my head but not really pay attention because if I did, then I would sass back and that was bad. 

Good luck...


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## JoBlueQuarter

farmpony84 said:


> Advice on how to watch your attitude. That's a tough one if you have been behaving this way for sometime. You can't fix certain behaviors overnight but what you can do is make a mental note. Admitting that you have a problem really is step one so the fact that you know you are being disrespectful is a good sign.
> 
> I'm not sure what kind of music you listen too but I can tell you that I notice a huge difference in how my son acts when he's been listening to rap and when he's been listening to country. The rap tends to have attitude, fighting, and aggressiveness while the country music tends to put you in a respectful mood... sometimes a tough guy mood but I'm ok with that as long as it's respectful. Also the video games change the behavior. So if you have things like that, that you know puts you in a mood then avoid it.
> 
> Also, the phone is an addiction! My son plays baseball and the rule is there are no phones on the field. If one kid brings a phone and the coach hears it ring, they are all running laps. So the phone stays in the locker. my suggestion is to leave your phone in your bag unless you are going on trail. You don't need it if you are in a lesson anyway. You don't need it if you are supposed to be listening to your trainer and your friends, they can learn to wait. Send a text and tell them your barn has a no cell phone policy so they don't get teenage mad when you don't respond within 10 seconds.
> 
> As for the talking back. Bite your tongue, count to 10, pray. Praying helps me keep my mouth shut big time. It also helps with attitude. Day dream if you have to. I'm assuming you are back talking when you are being lectured over something. I used to go inside myself when I was being lectured. I would nod my head but not really pay attention because if I did, then I would sass back and that was bad.
> 
> Good luck...


That's good advice! I go into myself too when people are trying to hurt/get to me - it's often a very helpful way of avoiding things that will get a big reaction out of you.

And what you say about the music is true - rap especially puts you in a 'fighter mode', you could say


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## jaydee

I haven't read all of the posts so apologise for repeating what might have already been said.
First off - If you were my daughter I'd be finding you somewhere else to train because when I read the first post I get all sorts of alarm bells ringing.


This is a trainer - you/your parents are paying him to train you to ride and maybe also how to handle horses. His only authority over you is when he's training you. If you want to get value from those lessons then its up to you to focus and concentrate 100% of the time. If you can't do that then either he's a poor trainer or you're throwing money away. If he's frustrated with your inability to concentrate then he should speak to your parents. He has no right to cut the lesson short and ask you to do push ups. If he feels he can't continue then he should cut the lesson short and walk away then speak to your parents.
His own immaturity is glaringly obvious. 


What you do when you aren't under his tuition or working for him in some way - maybe work in return for lessons - is no business of his at all, even if he is taking you to get dinner. He isn't your employer or your parent/guardian. He has no right at all to tell you that you can't use your phone or dictate what you can or can't say to him. If he thinks you're conversations are in any way inappropriate then he needs to discuss it with your parents.


I don't condone rudeness from children, teens or adults - adults probably set the worst possible examples at times with their 'do as I say, not as I do' attitudes but there's something very unhealthy about the relationship he's building with you.


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## jgnmoose

Horses are a ton of work. There are kids close to your age that get up at 3:30 in the morning to clean stalls and get horses warmed up before it gets too hot.

If that gives you an attitude, you aren’t cut out for anything serious with horses.

Leave the darn phone in the tack room and forget about it. You will live, I promise.


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## onwednesdayweweartights

Everyone has already hit the nail on the head. I read through pretty much all of the comments, and I hope you did too,OP. 

I understand what it's like to have a bad mouth and a poor attitude. For most of my teen years, that was me. Always defensive, angry, not thinking before I spoke. And the way my life and relationships were going at the time were a testament to that. I had a real hard time keeping people around me, and even though I held down jobs for a while, they weren't the jobs I wanted. I shut myself off to opportunities in life because I knew I had a bad attitude and eventually people would get tired of correcting me. So here's how I fixed it. 

I stopped taking everything personally. Anytime I get sassy, it's usually out of defense because someone has said something that has offended me or made me angry. When you stop taking every comment to heart, you take away the reason to have a bad attitude and say something you may regret. For me, this was life changing. 

Stop and think about your words, and what you're saying. I even went as far as learning different techniques for dealing with people in sticky situations. I learned techniques like instead of saying "You did XYZ", say "I feel upset when XYZ happens". It's called making "I" statements instead of "You" statements. Do the work. Invest in yourself. 

Good for you for recognizing that this is a problem. I think that is definitely the first step. I'm not sure what you are your trainer's relationship is like, but I think the posters in this group had some very valid questions and concerns. Really sit down and think about how your trainer makes you feel, and how you make him feel when you're rude. Having good manners has a lot to do with empathy, a very important trait. I encourage you to research it. 

Know that you are incredibly lucky to have what you have. I am 26 years old and a working student for a fantastic trainer. But I have to work my butt off to get a lesson. It sounds like besides some occasional barn work, your parents are paying your trainer to teach you. And if you have your own horse, you're even more lucky. Recognize how blessed you are, and don't take it for granted. I really hope all of these posts helped you to some degree. It sounds like you have a wonderful support group around you, and you just want to treat them as they should be treated. I know you can do it, it just takes time and lots of effort from you.


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