# Horses really are pets



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I can't speak for others but my horses are most definitely not pets. They are livestock. 

They don't come in the house, sit in a chair with me, or sleep on my bed. They are in the pasture waiting on my pleasure, whether that be to breed a mare to the stallion, or the mare is carrying a foal to deliver in spring or waiting for me to saddle up and go for a ride or to a show or to help someone with their livestock.

My horses are very well cared for, they have a barn, fresh, clean water 24/7, free choice grass and or hay 24/7, and they are fed a good, healthy diet, kept up on their vaccines, deworming and farrier work. They are groomed and petted and trained, but they exist for my entertainment and/or use. 

Don't make the mistake of thinking I don't love my horses, I do, very much. But they are not pets who are not expected to do anything to earn their keep. 

My dogs are pets, they are fed, allowed in the house, on the bed, on the couch, the chairs, whatever. They do nothing to justify their existence and they truly are my pets.  

My barn cats, while cared for and loved and petted and well fed, are not pets. They are expected to keep this place rodent and pest free for their keep. If one disappears, I miss him but I do not mourn his loss as I would my dogs. 

I love my chickens, but they are not pets. Their job is to lay eggs. When they stop laying, their job is to become dinner. My life would be missing something vital if I no longer raised chickens and could no longer laugh at their antics, but they too are livestock. 

Just because most people in this country do not "work" their horses as automobiles or plows doesn't make them strictly pets. They are expected to provide entertainment of some sort to justify their existence. Just because we do not chose to eat them when they're too old to work or entertain in some fashion doesn't make them pets.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

By the OP's definition, my horses are "pets." They do not train or work 10-20 hours a week. When I'm competing, I'll put 10-20 hours on them during a _weekend_. But that isn't every weekend.

I don't consider them pets in the way my dog, fish, tortoises, or snakes are pets. Those animals are amusements and/or provide me companionship. They don't work a bit. My reptiles obviously haven't worked a day in their lives. My dog's "work" (obedience training) is just because she enjoys it and it keeps her from eating my house. My dog is a prime example of a pet because she exists to comfort me. I snuggle her after work; she sleeps in my room (on the floor in a crate). I baby talk her sometimes, because why the heck not. 

I have a different dynamic with my horses. My horses are expensive toys -- well oiled machines. I keep them around to fulfill competitive goals. They receive excellent care, because they would cease to perform well if I didn't care for them. I spend time and effort training them so they'll be better performers. It isn't like that "dog-like" love doesn't exist -- it just isn't my primary feeling toward them. Companion love comes second after performance.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

To some people, they could be pets I suppose? To me, no, they are my fitness equipment, lol.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

I love my horse, and he certainly is spoiled. I consider him part of the family just like my dog. But then again I'm a teenage girl, so there's that factor. Stitch makes me happy, in the 6 months I've owned him he's provided me with so much endless joy, he's more than a horse, or piece of farm equipment to me. He's my friend and partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

My horse is no pet. Sure, I love him and provide him with care and everything that he needs, but he sure as is no pet. In the off season I usually don't train up to 10 hrs a week, but I don't think that anything under does not qualify as work either. 

My boy is naturally a worrier, very nervous fellow and if I left him to his own accord whilst "riding" (not engaging his mind or asking much of him) then he would probably get so lost in his own mind worrying about where his buddies are or what's going on with others in the aisle way that he'd be extremely hard to handle. 

Unless I work him. 

When I get on, I let him know I mean business. I expect that his mind be engaged and keep it as such so that the above doesn't happen- and it never does. So yes, my horse works for a living and no I don't think he's a pet. Best friend? Probably. But still no pet.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Sharpie said:


> ... 'work' for a living ...


This could be a very amusing discussion about how will view the world, our own lives, and our horses. 

To me, there is a big difference between "working" and "working for a living", and there are certainly many different opinions of what "for a living" means in the case of a horse.

To me, if we look at it in the same way we look at our own work, in a business sense, a horse can only be "working for a living" if it generates income/revenue/service that covers its care and feeding. A lesson horse "works for a living". A horse pulling an Amish buggy "works for a living". A ranch horse working cattle "works for a living". Our horses certainly "work" when we train/ride them, but they don't "work for a living".

Yes, in most cases they are just big pets, but you'll find very few horse owners that will admit to it.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Mine is a pet. A well behaved part of my life that brings me joy. 
She is a companion, I sit in her stall and read while she eats her hay. 
She is a partner with my daughter- the tack goes on and here comes the work face. 
She is a partner in crime when I ride, because she knows we are going to explore and work her brain- 
For my mother in law she's a dog, she yells "granny's baby, come get your cookie...." And that 1000 lb crazy girl that was seconds before playing chase with the wind will come head down making nice to get a vanilla wafer and present her head to be scratched. 

In the end- she is ours- she asks that I make sure she is well fed and taken care of, I ask that she gives me a feeling of goodness....whatever definition that is doesn't matter to me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

IMO any working animal is one that brings in money (lesson horses) or one that makes work possible (police horse). If your horse is a pet you could run your everyday life without them. While they might work hard they are still something you do for pleasure. 

There are probably more working horses then 5% of the population, can't forget lesson horses! I'd say maybe 20% work, 20% are somewhere in limbo and the other 60% are kept for pleasure. 

Oh yes, and I know by law horses are livestock animals.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

We 'use' our horses. They make our living. We do not eat if they do not work. We raise them and train them to sell them. We have a set of trail horses that work more days a year than they rest. [They are booked to go out later today with riders.] They are livestock and not pets. 

I love them dearly -- some more than others. They are very well cared for. They are slick and fat in the summer and fat and fuzzy in the winter. They like their jobs as ranch horses and trail horses -- but their job is to do what we need them to do.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I love coming to Horse Forum because there are so many knowledgeable members whose horses really do work for a living. The advice from people who work professionally with their horses is invaluable to those of us who "play" with our 1000 lb pets. My horse is respectful, has good manners, and solid basic training, but she certainly doesn't do anything but eat, sleep, hang out in the field, and tote me around a couple of hours a week.



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I love my chickens, but they are not pets. Their job is to lay eggs. When they stop laying, their job is to become dinner. My life would be missing something vital if I no longer raised chickens and could no longer laugh at their antics, but they too are livestock.


DA has been extremely helpful to me in figuring out how to take care of chickens- DA, you'd probably be disappointed in me to know that my girls really have become pets too!!  My husband just shook his head at me when I made them a "hot breakfast" of rice, corn, and oatmeal this morning...



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> My dogs are pets, they are fed, allowed in the house, on the bed, on the couch, the chairs, whatever. They do nothing to justify their existence and they truly are my pets.


But maybe I'm not such a softie after all...there is NO WAY my dogs would ever be allowed on the furniture. I can't imagine having 50 lbs of furry collie breathing dog breath on me in the middle of the night!!!


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

PaintHorseMares said:


> Yes, in most cases they are just big pets, but you'll find very few horse owners that will admit to it.


 Really, I think every owner I know would call their horses pets regardless of "working "definitions of 10 hrs a week.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

If someone were to ask me to give my horse a title, and to choose between "livestock" and "pet", I would go with pet simply because of the implications that come with it.

Currently he is being used as a school horse (gets home in the next couple of days! Ahhh!), and so I would say that he is in work.
As far as the percentage... I'd say maybe 10% of horses are in 'work', by this definition.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't personally, offline, know anyone whose horses don't work for a living.

Ranching, outfitter's saddle and pack horses, polo horses all work. So 100% of the horses I interact with are working horses. They are really good co-workers to have.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

egrogan said:


> DA has been extremely helpful to me in figuring out how to take care of chickens- DA, you'd probably be disappointed in me to know that my girls really have become pets too!!  My husband just shook his head at me when I made them a "hot breakfast" of rice, corn, and oatmeal this morning...
> 
> 
> But maybe I'm not such a softie after all...there is NO WAY my dogs would ever be allowed on the furniture. I can't imagine having 50 lbs of furry collie breathing dog breath on me in the middle of the night!!!


ROFL, Egrogan! My husband swears he can't eat anything he's named. So, I quit naming my chickens. They are "the girls" collectively. He's not had a problem since. 

As for the dogs......I'm a sucker and I know it. We had 2 Rotties, 1 160 lbs and the other 110 and they had their OWN couch in the house and they slept with us. Yeah.....they were spoiled! We have 3 utterly obnoxious JRTs now, and they are spoiled even worse. 

I think NUMBERS may be a defining factor in whether an animal is a pet or livestock. We have just gotten down to 10 horses, of our own, as we're cutting back numbers and starting to get to the 'retirement' point of having fewer horses to care for. I'm down to 1 boarder's horse, I had 40 plus 20 of my own horses at one point. When 1 or 2 people are caring for that many horses, I don't think you can really call them pets anymore, you don't have time to build the kind of relationship you do with 1 on 1 or 2. We had 50 chickens (attrition, gonna have to get some more day olds) and while they're funny and sweet and make great eggs, I really don't get attached to them. I finally sorted out the barn cats and got down to 6 fixed males. Before I did that, I had 60 feral cats hanging around and was going through 200 lbs of cat food a month. Through attrition on the barn cats, we're now down to 3. When you have 60 regulars at the Feral Kitty Kafe, you don't get real attached. 

I love my horses and have made a living with them, but I'm far too busy caring for all the animals, foaling out the mares, fixing fence and basically trying to keep them from tearing the place down to ever really look at them as pets. Maybe someday, when we're down to 2 or 3 horses, I won't look at them as every horse on the place has a price and if someone made the right offer I'd let them go.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

Zexious said:


> If someone were to ask me to give my horse a title, and to choose between "livestock" and "pet", I would go with pet simply because of the implications that come with it.


You should rethink that logic. In Colorado, we are constantly battling municipality with maintaining our ag status on our lands. We as horse owners should never play into the hands of government which will limit our rights to use the property as it historically has been used. When we start thinking of our livestock as pets, we give the non farmer city and county administrators validation. The simple redesignation of ag to rural residential will increase your property taxes 6 fold. Most small boarding operations can not absorb that increase. 

To everyone who thinks of their horses as pets, think about the long term implications if horses were no longer classified as livestock. Most of us will be squeezed out and need to move farther out to keep our horses as home.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Left Hand Percherons said:


> To everyone who thinks of their horses as pets, think about the long term implications if horses were no longer classified as livestock. Most of us will be squeezed out and need to move farther out to keep our horses as home.


In the UK, horses are already classified as "equestrian usage" and part of the leisure industry, to change farm land to put a horse on it can be extremely difficult and requires planning permission.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Left--I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, or perhaps I didn't word it correctly.

I would say "pet" because "Livestock" (in my opinion) implies an animal that must 'earn its keep'. When I think "livestock" I think something I am making money off of, not something that is loved and part of the family.
Not to say it cannot be both, these are just my opinions. 

I have always lived in the suburbs, and (almost) always have boarded at big name barns. I have never encountered the issues that you are mentioning, so my opinions cannot have been shaped by them.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I consider mine outdoor pets. They bring in no income, are not needed for anything I require, and are kept for my family's pleasure.


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## paintluver (Apr 5, 2007)

My horse is my pet. I do like that someone said they are our excersize equipment (That is what Gavyn is here for lol!) and for me to spend my free time doing!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't compete any more so in effect my horses are 'pets' in that sense but I still don't see them as large poodles - they take up too much space, time and cost too much money to view them like that
I do keep one retired mare because she gave me many years of good service and is a good companion for one that doesn't socialize well with the others but I wouldn't generally keep a horse that wasn't sound (or sane) to ride - I would rather have it euthanized.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

jaydee said:


> I do keep one retired mare because she gave me many years of good service.


Believe it or not, many ranchers will keep a cow that can no longer produce a calf just because they gave years of good service, either as a mother cow or lead cow or both. And then put it down themselves rather than ship it when it can no longer survive well.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Closer to pet; certainly not merely livestock; but the difficult part to answer is "work"---no, I don't think my horses EVER work.

Even when we're all sweating and panting, it's still something else; a physical communication is the closest I can come. (Except for, perhaps, trail riding or hacking, which is simply companionship.)

Maybe horses today are, in the majority, in a class of their own.

Thanks for an interesting topic!


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## equine24 (Aug 7, 2013)

I love both sides of the story on this. What it all comes down to is we love horses weather they are working or pets we all have our reason why we have a horse and love them and take care of them the way we do. The non-horse people don't understand horses have always been apart of history weather they have taken us to discover new lands or charged into a war with us. Only people who care for horses every day truly understand how important horses are to us, we are special people, hard working, because even if your horse is just a "pet" we still work hard for them and get all kinds of dirty. So weather your hitching your horse to a cart or running down to the barn to give them a carrot stop for a moment and thank them.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Horses becoming pets instead of livestock in the eyes of the government will 'kill' just about all horse breeders and others in any facet of the horse industry. It will kill ALL small breeders and most big breeders. It will effectively run everyone out of business that does not derive ALL of their income from horses. 

This is the current big push of the HSUS and other Animal Rights Nuts. It is the quickest way to push all horses breeders and eventually all horse owners out of the business. 

Just like with shutting down horse processing plants in the US had 'unintended consequences', losing livestock status will have even worse consequences for all of us.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

The law notwithstanding, it really depends on how the owner views them, not what they're used for.

My horses are pets, just like my cats. I honestly don't see them any differently. On the other hand, I'm not crazy about dogs as indoor pets. But that's just my opinion. Dogs are pets to plenty of people.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Sharpie said:


> What percentage of horses (not counting feral mustangs) do you think really work for a living?


Nearly all of them. If you ride your horse then it's working for a living.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Zexious said:


> Left--I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, or perhaps I didn't word it correctly.
> 
> I would say "pet" because "Livestock" (in my opinion) implies an animal that must 'earn its keep'. *When I think "livestock" I think something I am making money off of, not something that is loved and part of the family.
> Not to say it cannot be both*, these are just my opinions.
> ...


Think what you want, but* know* that I love and care for every animal on my place. Cows, goats, deer, antelope, elk, the birds that need my riparian areas to survive, the amphibians, the rodents, etc.


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## VickiRose (Jul 13, 2013)

Our pony is most definitely a pet. 

I think a lot depends on how you use an animal and how it was raised as to whether its a pet or not. 

We have 50 or so chickens, 3 of whom were pets as the kids had hand raised them. We have 800 sheep, 2 of whom are pets as they were hand raised, 70 cattle of which 3 are pets, 2 because we hand raised them and one old cow who acts a baby sitter to the heifers. 

We have 4 dogs, all are pets but two are also expected to work herding sheep and cattle, one is a retired work dog and the other is an annoying silky terrier who's job is to make my MIL a bearable person to be with! LOL

I know very few people who would consider their horses to be livestock, but I know that changes in different parts of the country where horses are tools of work, a lot like our dogs are tools to work stock. 

And I get what Boots says, even my livestock is valued and treated well, up to and including when its served on my dinner table. After all, thats its job.


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## SaskGal (Apr 18, 2012)

I would say generally my horses are here for companionship. They carry me around, eat our pasture and they are my buddies. However especially with my gelding if something on our farm needs to get done I will use him. He is what I call "free labour" but we all know that is far from the truth.
I do think most horses do not work for their living and what I mean by that it is not generating income, for example if the do not make or contribute to what they spend then they are pets.
That is just my POV though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SaskGal (Apr 18, 2012)

Why don't we come to the middle, they are employees. We either ride or drive or lead them or they are just there and we pay them back by feeding, watering.....etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Mine fit the definition of pets exactly as bsms says.

My dogs sleep with me or where ever they want, Gus weighs in at 155lbs, Lily is much smaller at 120 lbs. Like having heated body pillows on a cold night.

While I wouldn't bring the big horses in I've actually thought about what I would do if my 38 yr old pony could no longer stand the cold. I have a big pantry on the far side of the house that is never used and isn't heated. She could hang in there for the winter if it came to it. Pure pet.

As far as legal implications...if somebody with some legal capacity were to ask me whether they were pets or livestock. Livestock because of the zoning nonsense that goes with the difference.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

VickiRose said:


> I think a lot depends on how you use an animal and how it was raised as to whether its a pet


This makes a lot of sense to me. I have 8 "backyard chickens"-6 I raised from day old chicks, the other two I got when their owner was forced to give them up. Spending a lot of time with them as individuals really shaped how I view them. Like my horse, they're just an expensive hobby-they give us eggs, but even when they're too old to keep laying, we'll keep them around purely as pets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

The greatest legal implication is that pets are not deductible by any state or by the Federal Government. This means that feed will all be taxable as well as not being able to deduct wages for employees or any other expenses -- even the cost of feed. With the huge cost of raising horses for the show or sale market, only people that do not ever off-set any other income from any other source will be able to call them a business. 

Just think for one minute how many legitimate breeders or trainers or any other business (like a boarding stable) will be able to survive. Not many. That is why the evil HSUS is pushing so hard for this designation. As livestock, they are treated as all other livestock. Everyone better hope they do not lose that designation.


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## Trinity Ridge (Nov 27, 2013)

my horse is chattel. to be used as i see fit, and how often i deem. definitely not a pet.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Interesting ideas, and Cherie- I agree that they implications of LEGAL reclassification from "livestock" to "pet" would huge. That said, hopefully that will not come to pass any time while I live and that people will see the PETA and HSUS whackadoos for what they are. Don't get me wrong, I am all for animal welfare and treating them right, but I don't believe in their "better dead than fed" and "end animal slavery" business.

I suppose I consider a real "working animal" to be one who's job/services pays for his upkeep. A police horse, a herding dog, meat and fiber animals, service animals, military working dogs, etc. Critters that make or help make their humans money or enable them to function/work/do a job they would not otherwise be able to do. 

Pets just exist, are cared for, and fed simply because they make their humans happy. Just because I do agility with my dog, cuddle with my cat, sing with my birds, and ride my horse doesn't change the fact that to me, all are pets. You can do different activities and have different relationships with different pets. As I mentioned, where I am, most horses I know are also pets. Very expensive, time consuming pets. If he vanished, my job, finances and ability to make a living would not at all be affected. I'd probably be richer in money actually, though I'd argue poorer in spirit and happiness. I'd agree that my horse doubles as a gym membership, fitness equipment, and therapist all in one too!

I really think it's pretty cool that there are so many real working horses and horse people here on the forum. People who either breed, train, or care for horses or use horses as part of accomplishing another job like cattle work or pulling the carriages in cities. I certainly would consider the racehorses as working animals as well. And of course, there are the lesson horses that so many of us owe so much!


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

My horse is a pet. He exists in a similar fashion that my cats do, just outside instead of inside. We do not train, any riding that we do can be likened to taking a dog for a walk. We usually go for an hour long ride once a week... to me that's a pet not a working horse.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Technically they are and should be livestock.

Emotionally they are my pets.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Cherie said:


> The greatest legal implication is that pets are not deductible by any state or by the Federal Government. This means that feed will all be taxable as well as not being able to deduct wages for employees or any other expenses -- even the cost of feed. With the huge cost of raising horses for the show or sale market, only people that do not ever off-set any other income from any other source will be able to call them a business.
> 
> Just think for one minute how many legitimate breeders or trainers or any other business (like a boarding stable) will be able to survive. Not many. That is why the evil HSUS is pushing so hard for this designation. As livestock, they are treated as all other livestock. Everyone better hope they do not lose that designation.


Whereas I wouldn't want to see horses classified as "pets" simply to destroy legitimate breeders, I could see the need to prove your horses aren't used as a "pet" for tax purposes.

My land was "agricultural" when I purchased it so the taxes were practically non-existent. I had 6mo to establish an agricultural business and utilize the land for it and provide proof that I had established such a business and was actively selling animals, crops, etc... I didn't meet their requirements (I only raise enough for my family and barter any extra) so my property lost it's agricultural status. I think that's fair, I'm not by any means a "farmer" nor am I using my land to support my family. For me it's a hobby farm where I raise whatever strikes my fancy at the time!

Oh and my horse is not a pet, he's a lawn mower! Really..... since I broke my knee, he wanders around mowing, gets feed & minimally groomed by the kiddos and has only routine visits from the Vet & Farrier (who thank god is willing to trim a horse that HE has to halter and direct my hubby on how to hold). 

Goats - Weed Eaters
Chickens - I'd claim they earn their keep by laying eggs but with 26 chickens and 9-10 eggs daily, there are more than a few slackers out there and honestly, I don't care. All named, loved and not destined for a stew pot.
Ducks - Never laid eggs, never done anything other than make a HUGE mess and make us smile, so pet they are!
Dog - Well the good for nothing, stupid dog DID scare off a burglar.... not intentionally, he's just big and barks at noise. So I suppose he's a burglar alarm.
Cows - Pets? Named, loved, all female who get to live because they give us calves. Big ol black dogs, who beg for treats and will happily slime your entire arm.
Steers - Well those poor things are definitely livestock, named and loved but within 20 minutes of birth their fate is already being scheduled.
Pigs - Same as the poor steers!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Boots--Again, that's just my opinion on the title. It's not for everyone, and I wasn't knocking any form of ownership. xD


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Zexious said:


> Boots--Again, that's just my opinion on the title. It's not for everyone, and I wasn't knocking any form of ownership. xD


 No worries.

I like to take opportunities to point out that people in various livestock operations also love and care for all their animals. We get a lot of bad press from people who know nothing of caring for large numbers of animals.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^Oh, I absolutely understand and agree with you. I have met lots of people that absolutely adore their animals (pets? family?) that fall under the category of "livestock".

But it's because of that bad rap the word gets that I chose to call my horse a 'pet' as opposed to anything else.
I probably didn't do a very good job of explaining it the first time. xD


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Horses are livestock and do not IMO fit the description of a pet.
I am fond of all 33 of mine. Some more so than others. But I will not shed one tear if they are sold or put down. I may feel sad but as a member of a family that for generations has raised cattle and horses for profit I refuse to see them as pets.
None of my animals are pasture pets and the minute they cannot perform their required task or remain in good condition with little besides senior feed they are put down.
Horses are livestock that are not raised for food but for pleasure, sport or breeding. That does not make them pets. Shalom


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Mine are pets. Big, expensive, and fragile pets. I use them when I see fit, but their main job is to pack me around and be mutually respectful. Neither of them have work jobs other than occasionally running down a gravel road, which all 3 of us enjoy. 

And I have said it before to friends: if I could bring my midget fjord (who loves to be loved on) into my living room to cuddle and watch HGTV with like I do my cat, I would in a heartbeat.


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## Houston (Apr 15, 2012)

Hmm, interesting topic. 

I hate to call her livestock, because to me livestock was the steer, goats, or rabbits I raised to eventually end up as meat. There is also an attachment that I do not have with "livestock" as I do my with my horse. 

So I will not call her livestock.

No, she is not a "working" horse- far from it. I ride her a few times a week and hope to compete with her, but I don't make a living off of her. I have her for my entertainment, pleasure, and because I find being around horses an absolute joy. So I also wouldn't refer to her as a "tool" or "equipment". She's a living being, and one who I am very fond of.

I do not like the term "pet" for MY horse, but that's the closest term I can think of. Or maybe companion, partner, etc would fit better (though I suppose that's what pets are as well!).


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

SaskGal said:


> Why don't we come to the middle, they are employees. We either ride or drive or lead them or they are just there and we pay them back by feeding, watering.....etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL Good one! Although I am afraid I am more their employee. Ashamed to admit I probably work far harder for them than they do for me most of the time. They are my outdoor exercise equipment. When the dr. asks if I'm exercising I can reply "Absolutely!" Shoveling, hauling, sweeping, etc.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

waresbear said:


> To some people, they could be pets I suppose? To me, no, *they are my fitness equipment*, lol.


Me, too. In the winter I keep in shape mucking stalls and carrying water buckets, sometimes pushing a wheelbarrow through the snow. In the summer I ride/train. They keep my 56yo heart in great shape, regardless.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

rodeo rdie112
I agree with you. I am I also a teen - but my horses aren't "just pets." They mean the world to me. They are my best friends, my only friends. Even if we can't talk with words he understands me and I understand him.
Horses changed my life in so many ways - but they aren't just pets who watch the grass grow while they try furiously to keep it from growing. But they are beautiful animals with a heart and soul. 
You put a horse and a new rider together and chances are that brand new rider has the horse disease and is hooked for good with horses, becuase something that horse did, he got into the soul of the rider. Just as my horses do every time i ride.
They are my family.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I consider my two beasties to be my pets. I care for them, pet them, take pleasure in their very being, ride them regularly (on par with a dog walk), and spend a good portion of my life taking care of them. None of that is dependent on them doing anything for me other than existing. 

They're on about the same level as my cat who doesn't live with me right now, but above my barn cats who are also all pets. None of them touch Motor, my dog on the pet level, but I've had him for 12 years and he goes everywhere with me. Honestly I consider him far beyond a simple "pet" and the rest of them will get there at some point too. When I put my 30 year old mare down who had literally been with me since I was about 4-5 months old (we were the same age) I was utterly wrecked. She had been a friend, companion, teacher, and playmate for all of my life.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

SaskGal said:


> Why don't we come to the middle, they are employees. We either ride or drive or lead them or they are just there and we pay them back by feeding, watering.....etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 More like we should be calling them, "Your Highness". They have nice, cushy bedding in their stalls, hot and cold running barn servants to feed them, water them, pick their poo, bathe and groom them and give them a mani/pedi whenever they look long, and we're well trained to bring carrots and apples. They deign to allow us to ride or drive on occasion. Yep, sounds like royalty to me.....:lol: OH! Let's not forget that we also dress and undress them and their "jackets" cost more than mine.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Unfortunately, the aversion to simply considering a large animal that lives on farms "livestock," highlights the success of the anti- farm and agriculture lobby. The inference is that no person involved in raising large numbers of animals as their occupation can "love" and care for them as hobbyists. 

Utterly false and completely insulting to those of us who do it.

Is it location? If a horse is in a city boarding stable, does that make it different? If so, in many parts of the world (and we can leave India/some Hindu beliefs out of it) cattle, goats, chickens and sheep roam towns and cities. But, horses at boarding farms who spend time in pastures are livestock?

As Cherie has so clearly pointed out, horses being legally defined as livestock benefits all horsemen. 

The care and attachment expressed in this thread by all is good news for our horses. The unintended consequences of giving voice to the anti- farm and ag lobbyists will hurt all horsemen and ultimately our horses.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

As a general class, I DO consider horses "livestock", however I don't consider my individual horses "livestock" because to me they aren't unless you take it to the most basic level of "they're large animals that live outside that could be used to do something relatively useful." I don't make any money off of my horses, I don't compete on them, I don't use them to do anything really, although I do take pleasure from them, but no more so then I take pleasure from my dog or cat. 

However, if someone wants to discuss broad ranging laws and such as it pertains to horses as a whole, I am the first to say that as a general rule horses should be classified as livestock because to a majority of people they ARE livestock. As a general rule horses are not something that you keep forever and they are very often bought and sold when they are not suitable or too old or don't do the discipline that the owner wants to do. How is that a pet? Very few people get rid of their dog because they decide they don't want to hunt anymore. The dog is just happily retired to live out the remainder of their days because to MOST people the dog is first and foremost a pet that was bought for companionship first and working second. Horses by and large are considered to be working animals, very few people buy a horse to just keep it hanging around. We generally buy horses to ride or compete or breed. My boy was bought because I wanted a horse to ride and have fun on, he became a pet over the years. Fat pony was luckier in a sense, she was bought both to be a companion and to be a mount for others. She also became a pet over the years. Either which way just because I consider my personal horses to be pets, doesn't change the general consensus. 

I hope you can see that I'm not saying that someone who raises large numbers of horses doesn't "love" them or care for them in the slightest, far from it. My family has bred and raised Labradors for basically my entire life, we love all of our pups and find them all good homes, many to working homes as well, so I understand that you can "love" and care for them even if you are raising them not as personal pets. It's just for me personally, my two are pets in my eyes. However, I don't expect anyone else to see them as pets.


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Hmmm...Sonny and Nick are for sure pets. My mother put it this way, "For us they're pets. But if you depreciate them they fall in the livestock category." 

I suppose it just depends. If I were to use my horses for a profit (cart horse/meat/plow) I feel I would consider them livestock. But I use my horse to carry me around on nice little trips through the countryside and as my therapist so he's a pet. 

My father considers them livestock. Actually, he considers them to be "useless money eaters" so...lol

But he also runs a packing plant where he processes cattle and horses for pet food. The animals are already deceased before he gets them though. They die of "natural" (illness/age) causes on farms and he drives to pick them up. 

He was also raised with animals but all the animals he owned had a purpose and earned their keep. So he thinks the horses, the dog, and the cat (except the barn cat) are all useless money eaters. The barn cat earns her keep by hunting mice lol.

Sorry for that tangent. But yeah, to my mom and I, they're pets. To my dad they're livestock.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

boots said:


> Unfortunately, the aversion to simply considering a large animal that lives on farms "livestock," highlights the success of the anti- farm and agriculture lobby. The inference is that no person involved in raising large numbers of animals as their occupation can "love" and care for them as hobbyists.
> 
> Utterly false and completely insulting to those of us who do it.
> 
> .


 My husband and my eldest son both worked in the Dairy Industry where non dairy bred offspring were bred for meat, another of my sons worked on a pig farm when at school and in his pre college 'Gap' year, the livery/boarding yard I worked on for 10 years was part of a general working farm with a herd of beef cattle and poultry. The animals were all treated with great care and respect.
I dislike 'factory Farming' and I know there are some really bad farmers out there but on the whole farmers take a huge amount of pride in their stock and take excellent care of them


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I used to be under the stance of calling all of my horses "livestock". Now, I think I may have shifted to "pet" classification. Or maybe a combination of the two. 

I had to put down my old horse Beau last year in September. I still miss him terribly. Kinda puts it into the "pet" category based on emotions. 

I grew up on a farm/ranch and we used the horses alot of round up cattle and move them to/from summer pasture. They had work they had to do. Hence for the "livestock" category.

I still haul my horses to the ranch to help with the cattle drives, but their main purpose is for MY enjoyment and pleasure. So in that sense, you could say "pet".

But, I do expect them to earn their keep. Not necessarily with "work" but by being able to show and compete in barrels. If they can't do what I need them to do, I will send them down the road. So on that side, we've got "livestock". 

So I guess call it whatever you want and more power to ya.
I don't have pets.
I don't have livestock. 
I have *HORSES.*


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Maybe I should redefine my "livestock," the ~ 30 chickens in my barn, as "food."
Don't be so thin skinned about calling horses livestock. MN Tigerstripes is right--who do YOU know that owned their horses as a foal and kept them 20-0dd years or so until their death? I kept Corporal, (!982-2009, RIP) from a 4yo to his death as a 27yo and I am an exception bc I keep my good horses into their retirement.
I have also bought "livestock", read that "horses" and sold them bc they didn't work out. Horses are wired to adjust. Dogs are not. Some dogs mourn for their old owners, and some even die for them. If you've owned cats you might have one that hated you bc you moved it from the home where the cat was happy. WE had one like that.
Enjoy your horses. Love them, if you like. Get attached and mourn when they get old and sick and die. I've been there. Love your chickens, too. I tt people on Back Yard Chickens.com who have chickens as pets, and I'm happy for their freedom to do so.
The only "anti-farm" people that change things in my experience are land developers who zone out your property adjacent to a new housing development so you have to get rid of your horses, so I do not understand the reference to "hurting all of us."
"Livestock" as a category enables we Americans to own horses who are "property." Legally this is advantageous for us bc we can prove ownership bc of how we pay for their board and upkeep.
Still, I think most of us have affection for our horses and have had our "favorites" over the years.


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## Houston (Apr 15, 2012)

MN Tigerstripes said it wonderfully!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think OK looks at it in 2 ways. I have an Ag Tax Exemption because I have chickens that I raise for eggs to sell and for food. I have a large vegetable garden where I raise subsistence food and vegs to sell. I also breed my mares to sell the foals and I sell breedings to my stallion for profit. As long as I am producing "items" of value to sell, or subsistence farming, I qualify for an Ag Tax Exemption. If I were strictly boarding horses...NOPE. I would lose my exemption because that basically turns you into a pet sitter and not a farmer for whom the exemption was created. 

The IRS considers me a business because of the breeding operation, standing the stallion, selling foals, breeding outside mares, foaling outside mares and boarding. I have and can demonstrate that I have an intent to profit. That all qualifies me as a business and as such, I am allowed to deduct certain expenses for the care and promotion of that business and its chattels. Once the business aspect of it stops and it becomes a Hobby Farm, I would lose all of my tax advantages for owning horses. I try very hard to follow both State and Federal guidelines that qualify me for exemptions and as a business, if I lost all of those tax advantages, I'd have to sell off everything and board out 2 phorses. It would cost too much to try to run as a Hobby Farm. 

None of that takes in the personal aspect of the horses and/or chickens. I absolutely do love my animals and appreciate how they make me roll with laughter some days. I do cry if they need to euthanized or die. I do miss them when they're gone. Most of the time, I miss the horses that I sell, but I still sell for profit.


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

Mine isn't a pet in the sense that my cat is my pet. He's an expensive hobby. Similar to my husband re-enacting and jousting - an expensive hobby. Or my daughter doing gymnastics, ballet, showing, etc. I could just as easily be into skydiving, R/C airplanes, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turfpro1234 (Dec 31, 2013)

I have 10 standardbreds. 4 race and the rest are retired. I do not believe in ditching a horse when they are no longer physically able to race. They sacrificed for our monetary gain and it is our responsibility to care for them when they retire.
Are they pets? They are now.. there only job is to live out the rest of their days being fat and lazy


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## david in md (Jun 13, 2013)

On my farm the horses are pets along with the dog, cats, and fish. They are here for my families enjoyment and do what we ask of them in return for the care we give them. Most of the pets, fish excepted, have names. The cattle, hogs, and chickens are livestock, do not get names, and are here with the intent of earning a profit for my farm. I care for my livestock but do not get attached. I care for my pets and am attached to them. I plan to provide forever homes to my 4 horses so long as I can afford to and they are comfortable.


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## ChristineNJ (Jan 23, 2010)

Interesting topic. The barn where I used to board my horse had 7 horses that were not ridden at all for different reasons. I consider those horses pets......very big, very expensive pets! My horse was difficult to ride so I couldn't ride him as much as he needed so I started to consider him a big expensive pet...loved him, talked to him, took really good care of him & enjoyed being with him & playing with him. He now has a job as a Dressage horse in training with a young girl that just loves him & I am looking for a horse that I can ride....LOL


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I read the title of this thread and quite honestly passed it up a few times. Finally I couldn't stand it any longer and had to read it 

Not sure what to think of the 10-20 hr. work week considers a horse a working horse.
In our situation we might have 5-10 horses in each of our string. They are put into rotation so whatever the day brings that is what they are expected to do. It might be from dawn to dark gathering and trailing cows or maybe 1 hour of gathering into the corrals and making a quick sort to ship. Basically a horse gets ridden once a week, whenever it is his turn in the rotation. But they are working horses that have to earn their living otherwise they get sent down the road. This is the life of a company horse.
They may be ridden quite hard in the spring and fall. Winters are good, shoes pulled, wormed and fed alfalfa on the meadows. They must be kept in shape otherwise t makes it hard to do the work needed to be done. Some of my ranch horses I "love" and I prefer some over others. But I treat them all as individuals and ride them accordingly.

My personal horses which I also use on the ranch and in exchange they are fed and cared for on the ranches bill. There is a reason why they are personal horses. They are horses that I see potential in and have feelings for. Not going to lie, but I love my Stilts horse  I have a couple of up and coming colts that I hope are going to be just as nice and even an older ranch horse that I own that is wolfy and never will be a "pet-like-horse" but I have a soft spot for him.(have to rope him to catch him and will buck you off if put in a bind)
Even though they work for a living I consider them pets in a loving way, but in a legal or tax definition they are livestock.


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