# Flat riding Critique



## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

So I know its only one pic. Only real good pic I have towards my riding. Don't critique Sunny.:wink:

Anyways the only thing that pointed out was my leg could be more back. My thumbs look down but they are really up but you cant see it 
Do you see anything else?
I have real long legs and the stirrup was really short still but I didnt notice it but then I felt my ankle twisting and acting weird by moving a lot so I had them go down a 1-2 holes more because I need a long stirrup.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

I want to comment here as well because it is a safety issue- that martingale is much too tight. Cute horse 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> I want to comment here as well because it is a safety issue- that martingale is much too tight. Cute horse
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


May I ask how it is to tight? I wasn't the one who tacked up the horse its not my horse. Its my trainers horse if the Martingale was to tight it would have be loosend?


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

It is too tight, there should be a lot more slack. You should be able to lift the leather and have it touch the horse's throatlatch. One member here has posted a good example of a well fitting standing, I will dig it up and post when I get home. Not the one to tack up a horse is not a valid argument; you should always check the tack for fit yourself before you get on. If it's too tight- as shown here, then yes it needs to be lengthened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> It is too tight, there should be a lot more slack. You should be able to lift the leather and have it touch the horse's throatlatch. One member here has posted a good example of a well fitting standing, I will dig it up and post when I get home. Not the one to tack up a horse is not a valid argument; you should always check the tack for fit yourself before you get on. If it's too tight- as shown here, then yes it needs to be lengthened.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Okay! Well I am not used to martingales since my old horse never used one and I havent used one on any of the horses I used to ride at my old barn.
She tacked my horse up because we where late and she tacked her up for me and had her waiting because she had a lesson with in 30 minute not my fault on why we where late there was Road construction on the road and had to take a different way to get to the barn. But what ever I am not trying to argue about it being to TIGHT  I am just saying I am not used to martingales so I wouldnt of known. I am also told by someone else that you can have it a little tight if the horse throws there heads up? I am just not used to martingales beside the fact I never asked for that kinda critique. NOW that I am aware of that. Can we please get back to the REAL topic?


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

I only mentioned it as I feel the need to point out safety issues. Now you are educated on them and shouldn't have the problem in the future. I am concerned that your instructor wouldn't know this basic piece of tack information.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> I only mentioned it as I feel the need to point out safety issues. Now you are educated on them and shouldn't have the problem in the future. I am concerned that your instructor wouldn't know this basic piece of tack information.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I never asked for anyone to tell me anything about how my Instructor is. Shes a very well good trainer:wink:
I am sure if it was to tight she WOULD have adjusted the martingale. Thanks


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

Problem is that the martingale IS too tight, it's one of those equipment things you can tell from a photo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> Problem is that the martingale IS too tight, it's one of those equipment things you can tell from a photo.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Charis. I get what your saying.:wink: No need to continue this. I want a real critique not on the saddle which isn't mine either.

Got a question if a horse says throw his head or has a habbit of stuff under saddle when do you have the martingale a little bit tighter then it is? I have no idea of what I do when it comes to martingales so I could use a little bit of exsplaining.:wink:


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

Charis I am confused as well. The martingale does not look tight to me and cannot think of which "leather" you would raise to make it touch the throat latch??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Zeke said:


> Charis I am confused as well. The martingale does not look tight to me and cannot think of which "leather" you would raise to make it touch the throat latch??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


See thats what I am thinking I may not know about martingales very much but it doesn't apear to tight maybe it apears that way but then again what do I know?


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

No. I would look first at WHY the horse is tossing its head- is he in pain? Does the saddle fit? What about his teeth and bit? Those things I would investigate first, then I would look at training. I would never put a standing on to 'correct' the problem, and I would never adjust it too tight. That's a quick, incorrect 'fix.'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

Zeke, the martingale leather should be long enough to reach the horse's throatlatch. This one is adjusted too short. It sounds like the OP knows it's adjusted short to combat the horse's headtossing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> No. I would look first at WHY the horse is tossing its head- is he in pain? Does the saddle fit? What about his teeth and bit? Those things I would investigate first, then I would look at training. I would never put a standing on to 'correct' the problem, and I would never adjust it too tight. That's a quick, incorrect 'fix.'
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well she does not do anything like that. So.. I dunno what you see but I am very confused but what ever this isn't something I am even wanting to talk about please give me a critique on my riding.  not the horse itsself or my trainer.
I know my trainer and I know the way she is soo


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> Zeke, the martingale leather should be long enough to reach the horse's throatlatch. This one is adjusted too short. It sounds like the OP knows it's adjusted short to combat the horse's headtossing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She doesn't do headtossing? When did I say that? I was asking what if the horse had that kinda habbit any horse? Not Sunny she isnt my horse.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

Might I remind you that you asked the question, I only answered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

EventersBabe said:


> She doesn't do headtossing? When did I say that? I was asking what if the horse had that kinda habbit any horse? Not Sunny she isnt my horse.


You should try and be more clear then. I read it as Sunny having the problem. At any rate, never use a short martingale. It's a safety issue for you, and a comfort thing for the horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> Might I remind you that you asked the question, I only answered.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I never asked to be critiuqed on anything except my riding posistion. Now can you please do that or I will be having a talk with the MOD. I am now done talking about the martingale issue. Okay? There is no reason to continue with a argument about a martingale issue. I will ask my trainer about it and see what she has to say.:wink:


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> You should try and be more clear then. I read it as Sunny having the problem. At any rate, never use a short martingale. It's a safety issue for you, and a comfort thing for the horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I pretty much was clear.:wink:


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

The things I see apart from the martingale  You are right your stirrups are too short, and it looks like you are sticking your toes out. Also you should have more of a bend in your elbow.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> The things I see apart from the martingale  You are right your stirrups are too short, and it looks like you are sticking your toes out. Also you should have more of a bend in your elbow.


Yea just my right one though  I knew it was to short lol. Yea I tend to stick my toes out hehe I will work on that and thank you


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

EventersBabe said:


> .
> 
> Got a question if a horse says throw his head or has a habbit of stuff under saddle when do you have the martingale a little bit tighter then it is? I have no idea of what I do when it comes to martingales so I could use a little bit of exsplaining.:wink:


Here is the question you asked that I answered. Hope you get the replies you want on this thread. Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Charis said:


> Here is the question you asked that I answered. Hope you get the replies you want on this thread. Take care.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Charis. This question did not rely on Sunny or any horse I ride its horses in General.:wink:

Anyways you take care


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> Got a question if a horse says throw his head or has a habbit of stuff under saddle when do you have the martingale a little bit tighter then it is? I have no idea of what I do when it comes to martingales so I could use a little bit of exsplaining.


A martingale is not designed to stop head tossing.

The ONLY thing a martingale is designed for is to protect the riders face on a horse that head tosses - The head tossing should be adressed with correct training, but a martingale can be used for safety in the meantime.

It should be loose enough that it doesn't affect the head AT ALL unless the head is in danger of hitting the person in the face. The horses head should have a full range of natural movement without the martingale becoming tight.

*

Standing martingales have become a bit of a 'fashion' in the hunter world in the US. Here in Australia, they are illegal in most jumping competitions and generally only used for fast events such as polocrosse.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> A martingale is not designed to stop head tossing.
> 
> The ONLY thing a martingale is designed for is to protect the riders face on a horse that head tosses - The head tossing should be adressed with correct training, but a martingale can be used for safety in the meantime.
> 
> ...


 
Okay thank-you. I understand I have never used one on any of the horses I have owned but thats because my horse never needed one.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

I agree about the martingale, but I'm not getting into it. As for your position... Hands up, thumbs on top, bend elbows, toes forward, shoulders back, and you have quite a significant chair seat. Your leg should be right underneath you, with a straight line from shoulder to hip to heal.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Gillian said:


> I agree about the martingale, but I'm not getting into it. As for your position... Hands up, thumbs on top, bend elbows, toes forward, shoulders back, and you have quite a significant chair seat. Your leg should be right underneath you, with a straight line from shoulder to hip to heal.


Thanks first lesson since may.:wink: 

The martingale from what I have been told is just fine. From many other people saying its fine but what ever. Coach would have known if it was to tight.:wink:


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

Agreed on martingale too tight - at that length it becomes a balance issue at higher speeds. I probably wouldn\'t want to ride a horse in a martingale that tight past trot because one little slip and your horse is down in a heap due to inability to use it\'s head to aid in balance. It\'s like tying a gymnast\'s head to his/her chest and asking them to go do work on the mat. 
Everything else has been covered. Not much critique can be offered from one photo at a walk.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

kmacdougall said:


> Agreed on martingale too tight - at that length it becomes a balance issue at higher speeds. I probably wouldn\'t want to ride a horse in a martingale that tight past trot because one little slip and your horse is down in a heap due to inability to use it\'s head to aid in balance. It\'s like tying a gymnast\'s head to his/her chest and asking them to go do work on the mat.
> Everything else has been covered. Not much critique can be offered from one photo at a walk.


Thanks. I disagree its not to tight yea it could be loosend but def not extremly tight 
Anyways I know not much be offered  I dont have any pics at the Trot or Canter  I will on Saturday.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

I figured something out I have a friend who said, that there is a pony with the length of a martingale and only on flat its fine but with Jumping it needs to be more loose.
We didn't do any jumping.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

You are very incorrect. How many people telling you it's not only wrong but dangerous will it take for you to realize this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I tried to give you advise and not comment on the martingale, as you were asking for other advise. But as you admit that you didn't know how they work, and it sounds like you are just trusting your instructor, I too, am now saying that it is too tight.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

I am not saying its not to tight I am saying it should be more loose I am just saying that I have a friend that said, it was not to tight for Flat work but I am gonna trust that you are correct I just never have used martingales so I am hard at understanding at how it is to tight but you say its to tight then I will trust that and I will ask my instructor about it next lesson.

I have just had severel people tell me it is fine or its fine for flat. But from what you are saying It may be more correct I will talk with my instructor about it.

But what ever. I trust my Instructor and I trust she knows what shes doing


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Well thank you for letting me know and I am gonna be sure to let my trainer know that. and I will have it a bit lose on her 

Thanks,

So anyone else on my posistion? Or is it all done? I know all the needs to do 

I will get a video and more pics on Saturday at a Walk/Trot/Canter


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I think everything has been covered. Chair seat, bend at elbow, thumbs up, toes in, stirrups down.

In all honesty though, I had to go back to look at your position, because the first thing I noticed was the martingale being too tight. I only say it because if your trainer says its not then she is wrong.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

HowClever said:


> I think everything has been covered. Chair seat, bend at elbow, thumbs up, toes in, stirrups down.
> 
> In all honesty though, I had to go back to look at your position, because the first thing I noticed was the martingale being too tight. I only say it because if your trainer says its not then she is wrong.


I never asked my trainer? I said, I asked other people who ride. I never thought to ask her when I was riding because I don't know a thing about martingales now that I do I will make sure to make a comment about it.

I trust my instructor. So does this mean that I need a new instructor since clearly you all think shes not good enough to be an instructor except the fact that shes been riding with soo many talented us olympic gold medalists an been riding since she was 3 years old. Owns her own barn has a instructors certification.


anyways thanks 

I am needing to head to bed thanks.

I do appreciate the Critiques how ever on my Pos since that is what I asked for  I will continue to work on them after 1 lesson after 4 months of no lessons is gonna at least be a few lessons to be completly in good posistion.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

EventersBabe said:


> Thanks. I disagree its not to tight yea it could be loosend but def not extremly tight
> Anyways I know not much be offered  I dont have any pics at the Trot or Canter  I will on Saturday.


No offense here, but you said you knew NOTHING about martingales, and yet you disagree with others who have ridden english for years (some are higher end competitors), so they KNOW how a martingale should be adjusted...they are NOT meaning to be mean or snooty sounding about it but the fact remains that the martingale is CLEARLY being used improperly; it is NOT a tool that was designed to "hold" the horse's head down, it's only purpose is to keep him from whipping it way too high (think nose straight in the air type height). The way it's adjusted currently can interfere with most aspects of her head, neck and shoulder movement, period, not to mention if she gets in a situation where she "needs" to raise her head naturally, she won't be able to, and will thus wind up off balance and could fall or panic, and hurt you both. I know you enjoy your trainer, but unfortunately alot of trainers use equipment incorrectly just like alot of regular riders do...it's nothing against you, and often is due to improper education in the first place. No one is pointing it out to bash you, or your riding, it's just a safety issue that we are noticing. 

Honestly, that horse doesn't even look like she needs a martingale in the first place, so perhaps when you tack her up next time you can ask if you can ride without it? After all, you could point out that you aren't used to riding a horse with one and would feel more comfortable without it.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

I I'm pointing out what alot of people said to me i am going to ask Julie an FYI she does need it I rode the last horse in it I will ask why she needs it an tlk too her like I said I would
so I need a new trainer?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I think what you need to do is post more pics when you can. As all this info is out there and more and more people will post about the martingale being too tight (which I agree with) you need to either close the thread or post something that others can talk about.  

And ask you asked, I am not certain that you need a new trainer, but I would be nervous of this one because of this, it would make me think that they don't know all that they should. I am far from being an expert, but I can see it is too tight. But there are other things that come into it, maybe she shares a bridle with other horses and makes adjustments to fit the horse and just forgot the martingale. It happens, we are all human and often in a rush, but at the same time she should have seen it while you were riding.

Edit - I didn't say in my post about your riding, is that I love your huge grin. Keep having fun riding, and have an open mind when it comes to opinions on things. None of us are massively awesome (if we were we would not have time to be here), but it is a good thing to hear how things could be improved.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> I think what you need to do is post more pics when you can. As all this info is out there and more and more people will post about the martingale being too tight (which I agree with) you need to either close the thread or post something that others can talk about.
> 
> And ask you asked, I am not certain that you need a new trainer, but I would be nervous of this one because of this, it would make me think that they don't know all that they should. I am far from being an expert, but I can see it is too tight. But there are other things that come into it, maybe she shares a bridle with other horses and makes adjustments to fit the horse and just forgot the martingale. It happens, we are all human and often in a rush, but at the same time she should have seen it while you were riding.


I dunno why she didn't notice but she was in a rush to get the group out into the arena because we where already behind in the lesson so maybe it was more she was in a rush was more focused on the riding then the tack I dunno.

And she knows everything that she should. It has taken me sevrel trainers to try and find a good fit for my needs. Patience and the way she teaches she exsplains and demonstrats stuff towards her students. She also has other Instructors out there. I don't think she shares but then again a lot of horses do. So she just might:wink:

Do you want me to post pics of my last lesson?



*Julie Amendola - Owner*
Julie's deep love for horses began when she was 3, and she reports that she cannot remember a time when she was not thinking about them. Throughout her youth, she studied English riding while growing up in Michigan, and eventually began riding and showing green horses for others. She rode throughout her adult years and competed as an amateur in dressage and combined training. She has had the opportunity to participate in clinics with riders such as Denny Emerson, Karen O'Conner, as well as several local recognized trainers.
Julie spent her professional working career as an occupational therapist helping others recover from accidents and injuries. After devoting most of her life to that career, she decided that it was time for a change and to pursue other dreams.
Julie recognized the vital importance of providing an equestrian facility in an urban area in order to make horsemanship opportunities and farm life experiences available to the community and to preserve this way of life for generations to come. Julie specializes in the beginner and intermediate riders, and enjoys working with adults and children alike. She strives to create a safe atmosphere for horse and rider while building a solid foundation from which the rider can progress safely and successfully to more advanced levels, whether in the show ring or for pleasure.​


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Heres me on a diff horse. 2nd lesson  










First lesson This was the first time I have ever used a martingale and she had exsplained to me why he needed 1 but I forget why. I know that he does something I forget what. though.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I can't tell you from her description whether you should look for a new trainer, all you can do is trust your gut. I was thinking about suggesting that you show her this thread, but if she is human it will likely make her defensive. 

But lets move onto the other pics  There is not one of us here without something to work on, but if I were you, I would want to sit up straighter, pick up my hands with thumbs up and a bigger elbow bend, and turn my toes in. Your stirrups could still go down a hole if you are not jumping.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> I can't tell you from her description whether you should look for a new trainer, all you can do is trust your gut. I was thinking about suggesting that you show her this thread, but if she is human it will likely make her defensive.
> 
> But lets move onto the other pics  There is not one of us here without something to work on, but if I were you, I would want to sit up straighter, pick up my hands with thumbs up and a bigger elbow bend, and turn my toes in. Your stirrups could still go down a hole if you are not jumping.


Yea these are months old  The ones on Sunny are the more new ones I was just showing you the previously two lessons with her. 
Keep in mind this is my 4th -5th lesson with her. I had a previous trainer I liked but none of the horses were well trained.
Then my first trainer like the one I learned english completly her husband was a drunk and my parents didnt want me out at the barn during camps and stuff.
That and we moved my retired Appendix mare. I am pretty much getting back into things after retiring my horse completly 2 years ago.
So really I had on/off lessons at another barn for 2 years but that wasn't working out so I looked all over for a new trainer and this Lady Julie is the closest one to how far my parents will drive. I haven't found many barns with english riding trainers.
I was jumping that day 

I TRUST shes a great trainer she probably didn't think about the martingale then I think about It I think she loosend it during the lesson just didnt get pics of it. Because she had to lower my stirrup for me to because it was to high 

She had other students in the lesson as well group lesson so I don't think it ment to be completly forgotten just more of we need to get going thing you know?

I just like her a lot I trust her I trust that shes patient shes shown me stuff I never knew before. The flexation thing. 
and some other stuff.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

How much would it cost you to have private lessons where you are the only student over a group lesson? 

For me, if it were say, $40 for a group lesson with 5 people or $60 for an individual lesson, I would think it is worth having 100% of the time over 20% of the time, even if it meant that I could only have lessons every two weeks, the math is still better. 

I am older than dirt, and I have a trainer once a week. I could not imagine paying her to pay attention to other riders. I don't have a lot of money, and what I do have is important to me, so I want to get the most for it.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> How much would it cost you to have private lessons where you are the only student over a group lesson?
> 
> For me, if it were say, $40 for a group lesson with 5 people or $60 for an individual lesson, I would think it is worth having 100% of the time over 20% of the time, even if it meant that I could only have lessons every two weeks, the math is still better.
> 
> I am older than dirt, and I have a trainer once a week. I could not imagine paying her to pay attention to other riders. I don't have a lot of money, and what I do have is important to me, so I want to get the most for it.


It is $40.00 wether I am in a group or a private and my first two lessons with her where private lessons then I switched over to group lessons. 
The one with the Bay Thoroughbred hes also wearing a martingale.

Anyways she payed attention to me but I was mostly exspecting to her paying attention to everyone consider it was a group lesson.

I like private lessons which infact I was thinking about starting back on Private lessons.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

If it is the same or similar price it is a no brainer to me to chose the private lessons, why not have all of her attention. Or at the very least not have to wait your turn to canter up behind other horses.

I saw the bay TB and I would ask you too look at his martingale and then at the first pics you posted, you should be able to see a difference.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> If it is the same or similar price it is a no brainer to me to chose the private lessons, why not have all of her attention. Or at the very least not have to wait your turn to canter up behind other horses.


I perfer group. I interact with other riders if I do  I was ridden in private with other previous trainers and reasons I changed I didnt like the facility itsself. Let a lone the trainer was from a place and I couldnt understand him.
Sadly!
But I also didnt like the horses.
I never interacted with other riders and so I enjoy it.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> If it is the same or similar price it is a no brainer to me to chose the private lessons, why not have all of her attention. Or at the very least not have to wait your turn to canter up behind other horses.
> 
> I saw the bay TB and I would ask you too look at his martingale and then at the first pics you posted, you should be able to see a difference.


So his is more loose then hers? Correct I dunno the different I can't really tell my eyes are really tired my eyes are starting to close up eye issues are the reason and I am tired. =/ I may need to look tomorrow.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I definitely prefer private over group lessons as well  

You actually look pretty good on the bay, even with his apparant antics in that one pic! haha...Your position in the first pic with the bay is probably the best I've seen, but I'm not strictly english, so others may have more to say. You have a nice line from elbow to bit, your back is straighter, and leg seems a bit more solid. And his martingale is definitely more correctly fitted.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> I definitely prefer private over group lessons as well
> 
> You actually look pretty good on the bay, even with his apparant antics in that one pic! haha...Your position in the first pic with the bay is probably the best I've seen, but I'm not strictly english, so others may have more to say. You have a nice line from elbow to bit, your back is straighter, and leg seems a bit more solid. And his martingale is definitely more correctly fitted.


Thanks.  

I think I see the difference. It wasn't my fault nor was it in my intention of knowing. I mean it was clearly a mistake.

Anyways thanks I know I have a ton to work on  But I willl as me and Sunny will be partners a lot possibly  I absolutly loved her.

Cool which is the Bay is soo much fun to def push button


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

From what you said it is the interactions with others that you like. From a learning point of view, I would have private lessons and hang out at the barn and watch other group lessons. In fact this might help you a lot, as I think I am doing something until my instructor sends me a video or photos and then I see what I was really doing.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

AlexS said:


> From what you said it is the interactions with others that you like. From a learning point of view, I would have private lessons and hang out at the barn and watch other group lessons. In fact this might help you a lot, as I think I am doing something until my instructor sends me a video or photos and then I see what I was really doing.


I am getting videos on Saturday. My boyfriend is going with me. I have another lesson I like group lesson. The only day they do group lessons is Saturday and the only day I can get out there If I do private it be Friday I don't drive so it be impossible for me to be out there a lot more.


I been riding years so its nothing that would help me  I been riding since I was 12. I am 21 now and well I did a ton of showing back when I owned a horse.
I just hadn't had much riding time afterwards


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

We can give this a small bump


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I don't think the martingale is too tight...I just think it slid up and all you need to do it put a rubber stopper on there, slide it down closer to his chest, and you're good to go. 

And I think you should move your lower leg back a little.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> I don't think the martingale is too tight...I just think it slid up and all you need to do it put a rubber stopper on there, slide it down closer to his chest, and you're good to go.
> 
> And I think you should move your lower leg back a little.


That is what some people were saying. But I simply wouldnt of known that.
=/
Thank-you .


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

A fairly correct standing martingale, as promised. The horse's head is raised and the martingale is still loose. 
Photo credits from http://eqneightion.com/blog/eqnipedia/


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

ErikaLynn said:


> I don't think the martingale is too tight...I just think it slid up and all you need to do it put a rubber stopper on there, slide it down closer to his chest, and you're good to go.
> 
> And I think you should move your lower leg back a little.


Not to beat the issue with a stick or anything, but compare my picture to the OP's. Big difference in the leather length. 
The OP [or anyone else] is welcome to PM me if she has further questions or discussion; I feel the matter has been more than dealt with on this thread.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Charis said:


> Not to beat the issue with a stick or anything, but compare my picture to the OP's. Big difference in the leather length.
> The OP [or anyone else] is welcome to PM me if she has further questions or discussion; I feel the matter has been more than dealt with on this thread.


if the OP's martingale has not slide out of place it would be the same. Considering the horse neck length, plus the horse is moving so his head is in a different place. And there is no way you can say the martingale is definitely too tight just by viewing one picture.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

ErikaLynn said:


> if the OP's martingale has not slide out of place it would be the same. Considering the horse neck length, plus the horse is moving so his head is in a different place. And there is no way you can say the martingale is definitely too tight just by viewing one picture.


No, it wouldn't be the same. With the OP horse's martingale the horse could probably not even raise it's head to a normal height as shown in the picture Charis posted. So, it is too short. The martingale should only come into effect when the horse slings it's head up *unnaturally* high.


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## Luvs2jump (Oct 11, 2010)

One thing I can point out when it comes to your position, first, the stirrup irons need to come up to the ball of your foot, they look a bit too far back to me. 
I also feel that you're toe is turned way too far out, right now in that picture, if you were wearing a spur you'd be getting into the horse's side inadvertently. You want more contact with the inside of the calf instead of the back of it. Easy fix by rotating the hip in a bit. I use to have this problem here and there.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

Gillian said:


> No, it wouldn\'t be the same. With the OP horse\'s martingale the horse could probably not even raise it\'s head to a normal height as shown in the picture Charis posted. So, it is too short. The martingale should only come into effect when the horse slings it\'s head up *unnaturally* high.


Agreed. 
According to the standards of horsemanship I learned when I tested through the upper levels of Pony Club, you should be able to take your hand and touch the middle of the martingale (the actual martingale strap, from girth to horse) and have enough slack to touch the horse\'s throatlatch. With a running martingale, you should be able to touch the throatlatch with the rings.
While I agree in most situations this is too loose, it shouldn\'t have to much tighter then this. I never ride in a standing martingale because first of all, I\'m trying to ride, not be in People magazine as a trend follower, and second of all, unlike a running martingale, there is no way to release a standing martingale should you get into trouble. I usually adjust my running so the rings reach about 1-2 inches below the throatlatch. 
I would ask your trainer why exactly you can\'t ride in a running martingale if she insists on keeping a standing martingale that tight. Also, you\'re going to need a donut on that martingale to keep the collar from sliding.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Thanks,
I cant make the call about the horse wearing the martingale. Its the way she wants it so I am gonna go with what she says. Shes the trainer not me.

I will be out there Saturday


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

I do thank everyone who has taken the time to demonstrat on what a martingale should look like when on a horse  I have check the difference out on the Tb Cool and the Qh mare Sunny.
I had no idea it was tight so it wasn't really my fault more of a fault that could have been fixed I am gonna talk to my Instructor and see if she corrects it when I go out for my next lesson. We where in such a hurry that it could have been not seen when she put it on Sunny i think it was because it was on a different horse she could have seen it but I dunno.

As for Charis Thanks


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm not gonna comment on martingale itself as I have no experience what so ever.  But I noticed sometime trainer can be so busy with other stuff that he/she forgets to check the tack. If you are unsure about something it never hurts to ask. Don't be ashamed about it, good trainer will never be offended by the question, but will take time to explain why it's done this way and not another.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I'm not gonna comment on martingale itself as I have no experience what so ever.  But I noticed sometime trainer can be so busy with other stuff that he/she forgets to check the tack. If you are unsure about something it never hurts to ask. Don't be ashamed about it, good trainer will never be offended by the question, but will take time to explain why it's done this way and not another.


Thanks. I know how to make sure the Tack is okay but the Martingale I have used very few times but I dont have much experience as none of my horses needed them so I had no intentions of asking when I never knew =/
Or I would have.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

EventersBabe said:


> May I ask how it is to tight? I wasn't the one who tacked up the horse its not my horse. Its my trainers horse if the Martingale was to tight it would have be loosend?


The martingale is definitely way too short. In effect, it is being used as a tie down. The horse will learn to brace against it for its balance, making it stiffer and less balanced overall. If they learn to do that, they will be very hard to retrain.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> The martingale is definitely way too short. In effect, it is being used as a tie down. The horse will learn to brace against it for its balance, making it stiffer and less balanced overall. If they learn to do that, they will be very hard to retrain.


The solution was already clear. Thanks


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Sorry, I got into this thread late. Didn't notice how many pages it already had. 

As for position, Try not to sit so far onto your "bum". Open your hips and tilt your pelvis so that your pubic bone is closer to the saddle. This will help bring your leg back.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Its fine  Thanks for the critique.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

EventersBabe-

Not to beat a dead horse, but I can show you how the martingale should fit on Saturday if you would like 

If not, that is fine also.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I have to agree with the huge crowd that says the martingale in the original photos is way too short. And no, it is not a matter of just sliding the donut down. You can see how it is tight from the girth too. Moving the donut will not suddenly make that portion of strapping longer. If it was loose between the legs and pulling at the donut, then yes, that will fix the issue. That is not the case here.

The horse in your second set of photos appears to be wearing a running martingale, which is a different bird all together. 





Gillian said:


> As for your position... Hands up, thumbs on top, bend elbows, toes forward, shoulders back, and you have quite a significant chair seat. Your leg should be right underneath you, with a straight line from shoulder to hip to heal.


I agree. 

It is very hard to get the correct alignment when you are sitting way back on your behind like you are reclining in a chair (hence the term chair seat).

You have puppy paws or piano hands (which ever term you like best) in all the photos. Turn your hands so your thumbs are up. Your hands should not be horizontal, they should be vertical. Turning your hands up will bring your elbows in.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

DubyaS6 said:


> EventersBabe-
> 
> Not to beat a dead horse, but I can show you how the martingale should fit on Saturday if you would like
> 
> If not, that is fine also.


That sounds fine with me. What time on Saturday? I may be there at the morning lesson if I can I may ask my parents to let me stay out there for a few hours.:wink:


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

EventersBabe said:


> That sounds fine with me. What time on Saturday? I may be there at the morning lesson if I can I may ask my parents to let me stay out there for a few hours.:wink:


I will be there around 12:30 or so I suppose.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

DubyaS6 said:


> I will be there around 12:30 or so I suppose.


I will see about it okay


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## sonnysfirststar (Sep 14, 2008)

I too have suffered from the dreaded chair seat...And let me tell you it is a very hard fault to fix but the good news is when you do correct this everything else will fall into place for you. Ok for that bad news, it is going to take alot of hard work.
Here are my suggestions,
1. the best way to fix your position is to get lunge lessons, talk to trainer there are tons of exercises you can do. lots of no stirrup work, drop your legs and push your hips forward, if you need to literally pull yourself in that position by placing one hand under the pomel (front of saddle) and one hand on the cantle (back of saddle)
Like I said there so many great exercises out there I would recommend looking some up online or get a good book.
2. when you post think about pushing your hips through your hands this helped me alot, when you land be careful not to push your butt back too far.
3. If you can locate a pony club in your area I would strongly recommend it, I have learned so much through the pony club organization about proper tack fit, horse management and riding. It also gives you the opportunity to go to clinics with some amazing professionals. 
4. one last suggestions would be to lengthen your stirrups a hole or 2 so they are a little too long my trainer made me ride like this for a few weeks and when I put them back up it was easier to keep my leg back...but I'm would really suggest 1-3 for best results  best of luck....I am sorry the martingale thing got turned into such a heated debate, again from my pony club knowledge it is a little short but as a beginner that is not your responsibility until you are properly taught. Try not to take anything to personally I think you are doing a great job staying level headed through this thread...If you need additional exercises feel free to pm me and i would be happy to help


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Another tip for the chair seat - to me it looks like you are forcing your heels down. This can push you leg forward - I had this problem. Once I realised that I was doing it, it was quite easy to correct


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## tpup (Oct 14, 2010)

I know nothing about martingales - have ridden for years but never used or needed one. So can't help there.

You have no base in your lower leg. I would work in two-point - ALOT. Get into two-point at the walk...get your weight down in your lower leg/heel and stay in two point until you can ride the walk without touching mane. You will need a strong core. The first time I did this, my lower back hurt like mad - I had NO core strength and no lower leg base. Once you ride at the walk for a while, sit in your saddle but leave your legs in the same position. You should feel a much more secure seat and better position. Do this at the trot and eventually the canter. Two point work will help you alot.

Also, this visual or analogy - if your horse were pulled out from under you in the photo you linked, where would you land? Most likely on your butt. You want to land on your FEET...standing.

Another exercise we do is riding the trot at a loose rein, posting and hands up HIGH - arms straight out in front of you like "Frankenstein arms". (no contact really - if your horse is good and well behaved to do this and stay at gait.) You cannot balance on your hands this way. You MUST keep your weight under you and hips/shoulders/head aligned. Hold your hands up and out in front of you high - like shoulder height. Ride the trot this way until you feel you are supporting yourself using your core and lower body. It is HARD but really helps. I had a bad habit of keeping my hands too low - no elbow bend, and at times, perching/tipping forward on my horse's withers for balance. Two point and the above exercise really helped me develop a more independent seat.

Good luck!


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

tpup said:


> I know nothing about martingales - have ridden for years but never used or needed one. So can't help there.
> 
> You have no base in your lower leg. I would work in two-point - ALOT. Get into two-point at the walk...get your weight down in your lower leg/heel and stay in two point until you can ride the walk without touching mane. You will need a strong core. The first time I did this, my lower back hurt like mad - I had NO core strength and no lower leg base. Once you ride at the walk for a while, sit in your saddle but leave your legs in the same position. You should feel a much more secure seat and better position. Do this at the trot and eventually the canter. Two point work will help you alot.
> 
> ...


Oh belive me we work on two-point. I think my posistion looks horrible in this pic but that was at the beginning of the lesson.

I forgot to mention that and I noticed my lower leg so did my instructor. I forgot to mention that woops.
:-x

lol anyways going to lesson tomorrow getting many more pics.


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## Starlet (Jun 3, 2010)

I don't think the martingale is too tight. We use a tie down on our roping horse and we have used a martingale tighter than this for training our pleasure horse. She disn't show any sighs of discomfort and we had no problems. It has even improved her headset drastically and she no longer needs the martingale. Just thought to add.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

Starlet said:


> I don't think the martingale is too tight. We use a tie down on our roping horse and we have used a martingale tighter than this for training our pleasure horse. She disn't show any sighs of discomfort and we had no problems. It has even improved her headset drastically and she no longer needs the martingale. Just thought to add.


Your tiedowns and martingales were MUCH too short. They should never create a headset, and if it did then your horse is in a false frame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Starlet said:


> I don't think the martingale is too tight. We use a tie down on our roping horse and we have used a martingale tighter than this for training our pleasure horse. She disn't show any sighs of discomfort and we had no problems. It has even improved her headset drastically and she no longer needs the martingale. Just thought to add.


The martingale in the previous lesson before these photos where to tight. This is about the martingale being attached wrong.:wink:

But thank you


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