# breaking canter and throwing her head up in the air



## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Why not try draw reins? Just today for the first time put draw reins on my mare and she kept her head down the whole time. For your horse breaking the canter, you have to be able to tell when your horse will break and then keep pushing them through the canter and give them the cue to push them through before they break and then eventually your horse will pick up that you want him/her to keep cantering.


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## Brandon (Jan 17, 2008)

Could it be that her back is botherin her when you lope? What kinda of snaffle are you usin? sorry i don't think i read what kinda you used.


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

That's hard to define without more details. She may not like the bit, she may not like the saddle fit, maybe your hands are not as steady or seat as light as the previous owner...very hard to define. Video of you riding the mare could possibly help. I will say that if she is rushing the canter it might indicate a stronger, more driving seat than she is used to or saddle fit pain, but that is a guess.


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## Jubilee Rose (May 28, 2008)

Harlee rides horses said:


> Why not try draw reins? Just today for the first time put draw reins on my mare and she kept her head down the whole time. For your horse breaking the canter, you have to be able to tell when your horse will break and then keep pushing them through the canter and give them the cue to push them through before they break and then eventually your horse will pick up that you want him/her to keep cantering.


Sorry to disagree, but I wouldn't use draw reins. They can be necessary for a certain training purpose but definitely not for riding all the time. I'm saying this because at my old barn alot of the girls used draw-reins all the time. Their horse would look perfect with them, in a nice head-set. In the showring, without the use of them, the horses' heads were all above the vertical, as before. It sounds to me like this mare is just being disrespectful. She's getting excited, and possibly taking advantage of you. I'd do a TON of groundwork with her. Start lunging her. Chances are, she'll do the same thing at the canter on the lunge, as she does undersaddle. Fortunately, in my experience, its easier to control and correct on the lunge first. Take it slow and easy, not moving up to the next gait before the first is polished. Good luck, and as I said, GROUNDWORK is key. 

Keep it up!


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## Zanesgirl (Jun 21, 2008)

I hope you don't mind me posting here as i've only made a couple of posts previously.
I had a similar thing happen with a gelding years ago. he was beautiful with his normal rider and a complete twit with me (bad choice of words).
In the end, i had to go back to his previous owner, measure the bit he was used to and then buy that. then i did a measure of her saddle, put it back on him, took photo's and then had to find one to suit. after all that, i went and had 'hand' lessons. (not sure of your terms for it, or even what they really called it but it was all about softening, lengthening, etc of the hands). and i spent hours upon hours watching a video of her riding him to perfect my technique to suit him.
after all that, i got a massage therapist out and found out that with the combination of the new gear, my inexperience with him, and him being 'out' in the poll and just above the wither, it was making him incredibly uncomfortable.
it took about 18 months in total before we were ready to show. we did get to the show, and he went beautifully. (he was the most well rounded boy that day..........unlike at home lol) and we would have placed had i not fallen off (cant even remember why i fell off now).
i had to retrain myself to ride like her and ride in her gear before we could work in harmony. over time, i adjusted him to my riding style and we went on beautifully from there.
hope this helps and sorry if i shouldn't have posted in here.
bdna


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## rolf4life (May 1, 2008)

Hey guys thanks for the replies! Um, Not a big fan of draw reins, they are more of a forceful tool then anything else. It should come naturally imo. It could be that im a new owner and a new place and she may think shes on holiday. As far as lunging goes shes great, I can lunge her in anything (even a halter). She seems to go fine, its hard to get her moving forward though, she can be a little lazy. Once I canter her though she gets very excited and then I can get that forward movement from her. 
I know that they did have saddle fitting problems with her before and they rode her in an unfitted saddle for a couple of months and then couldnt ride her at all for a few until they could get there saddle redone. Could she have picked up those habits from that? I have a wintec on her now and as far as I know it fits, ill take a photo of it that though. I can always change the gullet, its not a big problem at all takes 20 mins. 
Could it be her hooves? She doesnt have shoes and hasnt had for a year, I know the vet said that she did have bruised hooves when he vetted her. Shes a big horse (draft x) so it could explain it but I dont know if that would make her throw her head up. The arena is pretty soft for the most part. I am getting her shoes either way soon. 
I'm going out today so I'll video her and post it tonight. Maybe you guys can get an opinion of what im doing wrong. I haven't ridden her since thursday so she may be a little spooky but ill lunge her before and then get on her. I was away for the weekend


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

Bruised feet could be causing this reaction as well, yes.


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## rolf4life (May 1, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psx1UOHIlHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUj1wam4XVU

I changed her to a snaffle today which see seemed pretty to go pretty well in but you can still see her fighting me and putting her head in the air. 
The aid i use for her to go on the bit is a little different from my normal method (half halts), she uses a jerky movement of both reins left and right. I posted 2 videos, as you can see she went amazing on loose reins (Haha jokes on me). She was a bit better today though but still not much contact.
Anyways let me know your opinions.


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

The second video is much, much better. Your hand position is not perfect, gotta get those thumbs up, but you are relaxed with a bent elbow and your hands aren't bouncing like the first video. She's a heavy mare, you need to give her more room, her head and neck actually look pretty good in the second video. I would stick with the snaffle and start with what you think of as loose. Shorten your reins more over time, but try to keep that same upper body frame.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I agree, the second video is much better. The first video she's a little strung out and on her front end. A couple times she tried to drop her head but you didn't release when she dropped. You are riding with your reigns loser when her head is up high so she would rather carry herself there. You have to give her the command to drop her head but then you need to release immediately, if you don't then there is no reward and it isnt really worth it for her to drop her head. You might need a little more leg to. She's a cute mare and you look good on her though...


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

the second video is much better. 

the biggest difference i notice is that you are more relaxed/ sitting into your seat in the second video. i find that makes a huge difference in the speed/rate of my horse, yours may be the same. 

as for slowing her down, ask for shoulder fore, support her with your outside rein and sit down in the saddle (try not to let your bum come off of it)


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## rolf4life (May 1, 2008)

ya your completely right, i think i wasnt giving her enough room and i only realized that at the end when she was giving me the canter that i wanted. How do I keep her shying away from the fence though, I was giving her my inside leg and distributing my weight to the right. Is there anything else I can do?
I don't know how to get her down in trot though, thats a whole different story, should I just lengthen the reins and wait for a response, while giving her the half halts on both sides?


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

I picked up a little trick from a dressage rider a few years ago: 

hold your outside rein steady, and with your inside rein give little squeeze releases till she gives you her head. i don't know why it works, but i have used it on several horses. Don't get your reins too long, as you wont be able to support her going into the bit (does that make sense??)

as far as her shying away from the fence (all of my tactics sound weird, but bear with me  turn her head to where she is not looking at the fence, then continue to ask her to move away from your inside leg - meanwhile, ask her shoulders to come in...she'll be up against it in no time


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## rolf4life (May 1, 2008)

kickshaw said:


> I picked up a little trick from a dressage rider a few years ago:
> 
> hold your outside rein steady, and with your inside rein give little squeeze releases till she gives you her head. i don't know why it works, but i have used it on several horses. Don't get your reins too long, as you wont be able to support her going into the bit (does that make sense??)


This was my previous method, I actually started using it on her but it didnt seem to give me much response at all, and I find when she does go down she slows down her trot completely, should I sacrifice the forward movement for the on the bit motion? 



kickshaw said:


> Ias far as her shying away from the fence (all of my tactics sound weird, but bear with me  turn her head to where she is not looking at the fence, then continue to ask her to move away from your inside leg - meanwhile, ask her shoulders to come in...she'll be up against it in no time


So like a shoulder fore movement?


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

> This was my previous method, I actually started using it on her but it didnt seem to give me much response at all, and I find when she does go down she slows down her trot completely, should I sacrifice the forward movement for the on the bit motion?


Absolutely! It takes a lot more muscle to go slowly and correctly than it does to "just trot around". After she gets the hang of it and builds up her muscles a bit, you'll have your trot back...and i bet it will be more powerful than before! 



> So like a shoulder fore movement?


exactly. guess i could have just said that to begin with...lol


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## rolf4life (May 1, 2008)

awesome! 
this thread helped me out so much! I think I'm on the road to recovery =) thanks so much guys (kickshaw)


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

welcome  good luck (and keep us posted!)


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## rolf4life (May 1, 2008)

ok so not to ressurect this post on purpose but seriously, 
I have been making progress slowly like 3 or 4 strides now but look at this....
this is my horse at another show with her previous owner... I feel like smacking myself in the head when I see it! Shes perfect! Did she just forget all of her training or what? Am I being a retarded rider?! Ahhh So frustrating 

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3093192400101716124iQzFxT


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

it appears that the old owner is giving the horse more support with their hands and also sitting much deeper in the saddle; pushing the horse to the outside rein. keep working at it!! nice to have this video to refer to!


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## Artellomylove467 (Jun 13, 2008)

okay for the head thing I understand throwing her head up is always annoying. I know. I ride a head strong arabian who loves to show how proud she is by holding her head up. I use a standing martingale that goes from the girth to the noseband. it restricts how high she can put her head its works wonderfully. Also, u just got her a week ago. She has to get used to you and you have to get used to her. Longe her for a while before you get on her. Don't yell at her if she does something wrong just correct it everytime.

Artellomylove467


Your not a rider until you've fallen off and tasted dirt - michele sult horse trainer


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## rolf4life (May 1, 2008)

Actually today i kept my outside hand steady and sat deep. She came down like a dream. I mean it wasnt perfect like the video but I had a few circles in a row. The trot was very slow though but really good day! I was so happy  It really made my day. 
Thanks so much kickshaw for pointing that out!


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## kickshaw (May 7, 2008)

YAY!! you're welcome!


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## CaSpEr (Jul 3, 2008)

your horse is above the bit if her head is held high, the angle of the head is too far in front of the vertical and her back will tend to hollow. The hindquarters are not pushing the horse forward but being left behind and the front legs are pulling the horse forward.
so the hindquarters must push the horse forward. when she s is above the bit push her with your sit and legs and stay steady with your hands. don t try to put her on the bit with your hands. she runs because she may loose her balance so push her again and stay steady with your hands.

well if a saddle doesn t fit perfectly on your horse s back, it may cause problems on her back so put a gel pad but if it fit you don t have to put one


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