# Starting a Horse Breeding Business



## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

I am thinking of starting a horse breeding business. I'm just thinking of different options for my future. I will be going to USU for my BS - emphasis on Equine management, breeding, and science. 

I understand that breeding is a controversial topic. I did not plan on being the typical backyard breeder. The area my breeding business will be in has a large horse community. There are quite a few Dressage competitors, but no Dressage horse breeders in the area. This is why I think a Dressage horse breeding farm will do well; considering everything is done the right way.

These are the plans I have thought up, can you please tell me if it sounds good or if I should change anything? If I were to do everything right, what are your opinions on this? This is just the rough draft of my plans, so I am open to ideas. Anything I should change? Thanks.


1.) Find one good mare, trained or untrained. She will have breeding quality bloodlines, conformation, and temperament. If untrained, I will train her in Dressage.

2.) I will show her, and after she shows a successful career, I will breed her to a proven stallion.

3.) I will raise the foal, and train it in Dressage. I will not sell it as a foal, because I want people to see how successful foals from my mare can be. 

4.) After winning a few competitions, it will go up for sale. If the foal is in high demand. I will buy another broodmare with the same requirements as my first mare. 

5.) I will repeat the process with that mare, then buy more mares depending on how popular the foals are. If I do it this way, I won't have a ton of foals that can't find homes. I will only have as many that are likely to sell. 

After the first two foals, I will give the option of selling the foal after weaning. I will train the foals (and raise the price as nessesary) until they are sold.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

if i was gonna start a breeding business-- id start with a champion stud that people would pay for breedings to.. then id get a few champion mares that also have show winning blood then breed the two and the foals would sell themselves.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If you want to make a small fortune in horses, start with a large one.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> If you want to make a small fortune in horses, start with a large one.


Good one xD I was thinking of starting out with one mare though. That way, if no one wants the foal, I will keep it. I can handle two horses no problem. But if the foal is in high demand, then i can see how in demand it is. I will use that to decide to continue or not


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

What's your 5 and 10 year plan? Buying a mare, training it up to be adequate enough in the show ring to look at breeding is going to take years. Let's say 3-5 on the conservative side. Breed her, looking at a year to foal. Then 3 years till it's of riding age (maybe 4), and another 2-5 years to get that foal up to snuff. So 9 years on the "fast track" side, 15 years on the long side. 

... that's a HUGE time commitment for ONE foal. 
Breeding businesses generally look at producing prospects for people, not raising one foal to show and campaign then sell at a time.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> What's your 5 and 10 year plan? Buying a mare, training it up to be adequate enough in the show ring to look at breeding is going to take years. Let's say 3-5 on the conservative side. Breed her, looking at a year to foal. Then 3 years till it's of riding age (maybe 4), and another 2-5 years to get that foal up to snuff. So 9 years on the "fast track" side, 15 years on the long side.
> 
> ... that's a HUGE time commitment for ONE foal.
> Breeding businesses generally look at producing prospects for people, not raising one foal to show and campaign then sell at a time.


Good point, but I didn't plan on this being something that makes me a famous breeder in a year or two. I'm going to have another job while I do this though. In a perfect world, after a few years I could quit and be happy living on the money from the breeding business, but then again I'm not stupid enough to count on that before I even start.

I may have the foal up for sale as a weanling, depending on how interested people are. I may get another mare or two sooner if people like the idea of owning the horses I produce.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

Jalter said:


> Good one xD I was thinking of starting out with one mare though. That way, if no one wants the foal, I will keep it. I can handle two horses no problem. But if the foal is in high demand, then i can see how in demand it is. I will use that to decide to continue or not



The problem here is how do you know if it's a good nick? It might be one on paper but that doesn't mean that the resulting foal will be. How do you know if the mare and stallion will put their stamp on their foals without producing a bunch of them? You will have a minimum of 5 years invested in the first foal before you even sortof know what it's worth. There probably isn't anyone set up because you don't have to anymore. Everyone can AI. Those that can afford it will import. The other part of the equation is people aren't going to throw their $$ at a newbe or rising star. You are better off putting your time and money to establishing your brand and putting your stamp on the industry. Than you can do whatever you want to.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

toto said:


> if i was gonna start a breeding business-- id start with a champion stud that people would pay for breedings to.. then id get a few champion mares that also have show winning blood then breed the two and the foals would sell themselves.


Owning a stallion may be a good idea. I am still debating. Before I start this, I still need to get more experience in every department. I definitely need experience dealing with stallions, because I never have before.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

Left Hand Percherons said:


> The problem here is how do you know if it's a good nick? It might be one on paper but that doesn't mean that the resulting foal will be. How do you know if the mare and stallion will put their stamp on their foals without producing a bunch of them? You will have a minimum of 5 years invested in the first foal before you even sortof know what it's worth. There probably isn't anyone set up because you don't have to anymore. Everyone can AI. Those that can afford it will import. The other part of the equation is people aren't going to throw their $$ at a newbe or rising star. You are better off putting your time and money to establishing your brand and putting your stamp on the industry. Than you can do whatever you want to.


What do you mean by establishing my own brand and putting a stamp?


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Jalter said:


> Owning a stallion may be a good idea. I am still debating. Before I start this, I still need to get more experience in every department. I definitely need experience dealing with stallions, because I never have before.



If you want more experience with horse breeding barns.. go hang out at a successful breeding barn and see how its run- ask many questions.. even if they tell you 'you ask too many questions' ..ask more! 

If you can- go visit as many as you can- ask as many questions as you can and gain as much information as you can from as many people that run a successful breeding facility as you possibly can.. then get you a good horse.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

toto said:


> If you want more experience with horse breeding barns.. go hang out at a successful breeding barn and see how its run- ask many questions.. even if they tell you 'you ask too many questions' ..ask more!
> 
> If you can- go visit as many as you can- ask as many questions as you can and gain as much information as you can from as many people that run a successful breeding facility as you possibly can.. then get you a good horse.


I will do that  I am going to USU for my BS, emphasising on horses. There are hands on classes in AI, stallion management, and things like that. There are also business programs in the course I will be taking, along with many other useful things. I will see about helping out at a breeding farm on the weekends or something like that for extra experience.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

After you get your degree there's nothing like experience and lots of it before you get into your own program. I think your best bet is to hire on with a breeding farm as there will be so much more to learn.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> After you get your degree there's nothing like experience and lots of it before you get into your own program. I think your best bet is to hire on with a breeding farm as there will be so much more to learn.


That is a good idea as well. In the area, there are a ton of Arabian farms.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

How are you going to make money breeding and raising one single foal at a time? 

Purchase price of dressage-worthy mare: $10,000
Showing mare to 3rd level: $15000 ($500/show 6 times per year for 5 years- guesstimate!)
Boarding/trimming/regular maintenance of mare for 5 years: $19500 (at a minimum. Board calculated at $300/month) 
Breeding fee: $2000
Vet fees, etc: $2500
Boarding foal (@$200/month) for 3 years, farrier, inoculations: $8000
Professional 90 day start to foal: $3000
Campaigning foal at 6 shows/year for 3 years @$500/show: $9000. 

You'd have to sell the mare and foal for $69000 to break even. 

That is not a business plan to become a breeder. To be a breeder you need more than one mare, and have a solid plan for the foals to be profitable.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

One foal at a time is not a bad plan for a hobby farm but to withstand IRS scrutiny as a business you either need several mares and breed multiple foals (Or something I don't believe in but big farms do it all the time, one mare and numerous recips) every year and/or get a stallion and promote the fire out of him and stand him to the public.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> That is not a business plan to become a breeder. To be a breeder you need more than one mare, and have a solid plan for the foals to be profitable.


That is why I am asking this question.. I am looking for other people's opinions on how to make this work better. So far, I like the first poster's idea about the stallion. I can get a stallion and if his stud fees are successful, then I can get a few mares and sell live foals.

Does that sound better?


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

One or two mares isn't much to look at. That is hardly a hobby. The IRS is looking for profit when you file income not a loss (you have so many years to break even). You need to start out with only the best mares and stallions in the dressage industry. Just as mentioned earlier, one foal will not brea even. Stamping your mark is like putting your foot in the door. I'm not great at explaining everything but it's important you produce more foals. I learned (almost the hard way) that you have to start out with only the best to be taken seriously. For example, I own my own stallion. He has proven foals but wasn't given opportunity to show himself except a couple times before us. No one was taking him seriously. Now I have him in training for a few months already out in the public doing stallion parades and readying for shows this month. Overall, I've spent at least $5000 in three months not counting his shows yet. That includes the hotel, stallion parade fees, gas, boarding, training fees, and feed costs at bare minimum. I expect to spend close to $300-500 per show weekend(association has package deals) and more depending if I go to other associations and states. It's quite expensive so please, please, buy only the best and sought after horses and promote them. Going to a breeding farm for a few years is the greatest idea and best solution to see what it takes to fully opperate a breeding farm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> How are you going to make money breeding and raising one single foal at a time?
> 
> Purchase price of dressage-worthy mare: $10,000
> Showing mare to 3rd level: $15000 ($500/show 6 times per year for 5 years- guesstimate!)
> ...


That is a seriously low balled estimate  I'd say:

Purchase price of dressage-worthy mare: $30,000 (as a 4 year old, minimum price if you are lucky!!)
Showing mare to 3rd level: ~ $30,000 per year to keep and maintain horse (low balled when compared to boarding - this is keeping the horse at home), complete and get training, if you're good you can do it in 2 years, budget 3 in case of lameness/illness - $90,000 total
Stud fee/shipping/container fee/etc: $3000 (for mediocre or not heard about stallion)
Vet fees, etc: $2500 (if there are no complications and if the mare catches first time)
Boarding foal (@$400/month) for 3 years, farrier, inoculations: $16,000 (more realistic)
Professional 90 day start to foal: $4500 ($1500/mo is going rate)
Campaigning foal at 6 shows/year for 3 years @$500/show: again, $30,00 per year = $90,000

So a more realistic total is $236,000 if you are breeding a foal that is truly something special and not what the current market is absolutely saturated with. If you want a "warm-blood" that can "do dressage" go on horsetopia and they are everywhere.
To breed a truly nice foal which has a fighting chance to do international competitions, this is the cost. Even then the foal can still be born with birth defects which make it unridable, it can run through a fence, break a leg, etc.. etc.. or your mare and/or foal can die during birth. It is a huge gamble and I would not suggest it as something to be taken lightly.

Unless you yourself are a really great dressage rider with the potential to bring horses up at the rate at which the young horse tests progress (ie PSG by 7 years of age), I would not suggest you even attempt to breed dressage horses. Unless you are a rider and a trainer, it is impossible to understand what are desirable traits to have in a dressage horse and what a "collectible" gait looks like.


That's just my $0.02 I've seen lots of friends get into breeding and fall flat on their faces, and they know what they are getting into!!


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> That is a seriously low balled estimate  I'd say:
> 
> Purchase price of dressage-worthy mare: $30,000 (as a 4 year old, minimum price if you are lucky!!)
> Showing mare to 3rd level: ~ $30,000 per year to keep and maintain horse (low balled when compared to boarding - this is keeping the horse at home), complete and get training, if you're good you can do it in 2 years, budget 3 in case of lameness/illness - $90,000 total
> ...




This over and over. There are too many moronic breeders out there breeding for absolutely nothing except 'fame' online, or kolor, or what so and so's great great almost not on the papers did ages ago, and have saturated the market, or will saturate the market with crap foals. 

You need to make sure you are willing to LOSE bookoo bucks the first (most likely 10 years) because first few years you can't do much with a foal, and then it'll take a few years to even find out if your prospect has the talent and train-ability to even compete, much less at upper levels!! And that's not even including farrier, dental, trainers, vet work, campaigning your farms name and getting yourself out there and KNOWN as something special.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> That is a seriously low balled estimate  I'd say:
> 
> Purchase price of dressage-worthy mare: $30,000 (as a 4 year old, minimum price if you are lucky!!)
> Showing mare to 3rd level: ~ $30,000 per year to keep and maintain horse (low balled when compared to boarding - this is keeping the horse at home), complete and get training, if you're good you can do it in 2 years, budget 3 in case of lameness/illness - $90,000 total
> ...



I was hoping you'd chime in!! I was being EXTREMELY, extremely conservative with my numbers - a "eh" mare doing "eh" shows, doing all the training yourself (unrealistic.)


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

The best thing to do is find qualified people who are successful in your area and explore what the market supports. Online info is great to a certain extent.., but everyone's an expert here and has an opinion. Some are extremely useful, and some aren't worth a crap..
Put your trust, time, and money, in someone who is worthy of it.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Jalter said:


> That is why I am asking this question.. I am looking for other people's opinions on how to make this work better. So far, I like the first poster's idea about the stallion. I can get a stallion and if his stud fees are successful, then I can get a few mares and sell live foals.
> 
> Does that sound better?


In all honesty, nope. Stallions need to be campaigned and advertised, and need to keep up their breeding-worthiness. 

A dressage stallion worth keeping its nads? We're talking Grand Prix. Purchase price $50,000 for a "meh" prospect, and up from there. Keeping a stallion is no small order - I was naive enough once to think that it would be profitable on its own.
On paper, it sounds great. Buy a stud for a decent price, then breed it out at $1500 a pop. Sounds great! 
Uh.. till you get to the nitty gritty...
Campaigning a stallion you're looking at Anebel's costs for training/showing multiplied a few times over. Stallion housing isn't something to be taken lightly - and a breeding stallion needs a crapload of food and a very special feed program so they don't drop too much weight during breeding season. 
Even campaigning him in advertisements is going to be expensive. You have to hire a professional photographer and keep up with current ads. Not cheap. 
Owning a stallion isn't about buying something made, sitting back and watching the bucks roll in, which a lot of people seem to think it is...


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Here's another thing to think of, do you have the funds to pay people to keep up with the books and the orders for semen? I know everyone says 'oh it's no big deal. I've got this!' but really, looking back at another BNB and all the HELL she put her clients through, no semen, dirty 'handling' tactics, bounced checks etc. Do you have the ability to hire someone to cover those bases for while you're running your business?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Just to add here Jalter, it would really pay for you to get involved with a high end professional breeding facility that handles hand breeding, collection and AI. Actually you'd be surprised how many people advertise stud services online and post pretty pictures on a website, yet they have deplorable tactics and facilities but hide online because they've made a mess in the real world. REPUTATION is vital. 

Sometimes breeding is romanticized by pretty pictures of mares, foals and stallions. That's just smoke and mirrors - successful breeders campaign their horses vigorously and get real world results. It requires extensive planning, time and energy on the breeders part. 

Really to stand above the rest it's all a matter of results, clients want results, they want to know what they're breeding their mare or stud to is successful......if you don't have results all you have is a picture of a pretty horse.

Planning is key, realistic expectations, A GOOD REPUTATION, HONESTY and a hell of a good work ethic. Because until you get on your feet with breeding you're going to need a day job!:wink:


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## SketchyHorse (May 14, 2012)

Just tossing in my two cents. Equine Majors give you a good background to basic horse care etc & really help you kinda get a feel for the world. The thing they lack? Getting the experience to really jump into a specific aspect of the horse world & understand how it ticks. Someone looking for a nice pleasure horse to take into breed shows looks at a horse entirely different than someone who's looking for a top level Dressage horse. I'm not talking just breed either. I'm talking movement, collection, quality of the horse. Bloodlines do NOT mean everything. I've seen horses bred out their *** that weren't worth a dime because of some reason or other. 

I would advise really involving yourself in the Dressage world. If that's the market you want to target you need to get an understanding of everything involved. Not just from the breeding end. Just watching it on tv & saying 'man that's an awesome horse' isn't enough. A lot of the top breeders got where they are because they know what specific traits they try to breed for each time. And try to produce quality _every _time. Like everyone else said I would jump into a top quality run breeding program, but don't just pick any old one. Jump into one that is specific to what YOU want to do. That way you can really ask questions of why they choose each pairing, what they look for in their matchings, etc.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Your best bet is to buy a few older mares with performance records or foals that are already showing.
Breeders sometimes sell older mares after retaining a couple of the fillies . Hopefully bred ones 13-20 YOs so you can still get a few foals from them. Then perhaps you can raise and campaign your own stallion.
Al Marah arabians sells every mare after she is 12. 
You also need to sell the foals as early as possible. This cuts your expenses and brings in cash.
Getting established is going to be expensive.
If I were starting over the first thing I would do would buy or lease the farm. No need to pay for boarding and you can cut down on expenses buy raising your own hay.
Breeders sell foals if you are going to wait 9 years to get one to the level you want before breeding another then you will never get established.
You also need to be brutal about culling any mare that does not produce or cannot be used in the program. No matter how attached you are to them. Shalom


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> Your best bet is to buy a few older mares with performance records or foals that are already showing.
> Breeders sometimes sell older mares after retaining a couple of the fillies . Hopefully bred ones 13-20 YOs so you can still get a few foals from them. Then perhaps you can raise and campaign your own stallion.
> Al Marah arabians sells every mare after she is 12.
> You also need to sell the foals as early as possible. This cuts your expenses and brings in cash.
> ...


This is what I was thinking, and I'm surprised it wasn't a more popular idea.

I'm certainly not a breeder, but I am interested in taking the same path as you. (e.g. Get a good education in this field and try to establish a sound business with horses worth breeding.) And what dbarbians said is the wise choice. Buy older mares that have a previous show record, or even a proven broodmare that puts her stamp on her foals and maybe doesn't have a show record, but consistently produces nice, athletic foals. There is no problem with having a starting point, as not everyone can afford international dressage quality warmbloods. Doesn't mean you start out with a different breed and cross until you have a decent horse. You have to spend the money it takes to get some quality, and sometimes it takes a bit of luck and being at the right place at the right time, or even having the right friends.

My breed is a different breed (by this I mean not a sport horse), but I will outline what I plan to do. I started out with a younger mare of that breed, 4 years old, and we broke her to ride, and now she is being trained to drive. Later we got an 17 year old mare, registered foundation mare, in foal to a good quality stallion. I got my filly, and am hoping for her to grow up to be a nice driving horse, and maybe some day a broodmare. (But that is long ahead of us.) I am looking at another proven broodmare, the size I want with new bloodlines that not a lot have. When we can see it as a viable option, we plan to find a very good quality stallion of their breed. (Stallions that have offspring on the ground, and produce outstanding foals that have a good market.) These mares all will be trained to drive and work at the farm, and hopefully go to some shows and events for a bit of publicity. I want to cross them with something still retaining the heavy-boned trademark of their breed, but adding some refinement, height, and stamina. Weanlings would be up for sale, but we might retain one out of the crop to begin training and show what they can do.

I live on 240 acres so their are no boarding fees involved and we can grow most of our own hay, and for the level of training they need we can teach them the basics, and we also have good trainers who can get our horses to where they need to be in their training. I know plenty of breeders who have been very willing to give me advice throughout the raising of my first foal. I won't be going from rags to riches, but I hope within 10 years to have something up and running, and as I progress I hope to put my own 'stamp' on my horses, and be a known producer of quality.

As long as you get a real idea of the costs and losses of horse breeding, and are realistic, you can put forward realistic goals that can be accomplished.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> That is a seriously low balled estimate  I'd say:
> 
> Purchase price of dressage-worthy mare: $30,000 (as a 4 year old, minimum price if you are lucky!!)
> Showing mare to 3rd level: ~ $30,000 per year to keep and maintain horse (low balled when compared to boarding - this is keeping the horse at home), complete and get training, if you're good you can do it in 2 years, budget 3 in case of lameness/illness - $90,000 total
> ...


That is a good point; I didn't think about the time it would take for a dressage horse to be "good", even under a good trainer. Then again, that is why I am asking a few years ahead of time 

Maybe I would be better off with jumpers? Jumping is also really popular in the area, but the only breeders in the area breed tiny Arabians or Quarter Horses. Some jumpers may do well there. I do have more experience with jumping anyways. A horse still needs to wait a few years before it should jump, but a lot of horses catch on pretty quickly.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Jalter said:


> That is a good point; I didn't think about the time it would take for a dressage horse to be "good", even under a good trainer. Then again, that is why I am asking a few years ahead of time
> 
> Maybe I would be better off with jumpers? Jumping is also really popular in the area, but the only breeders in the area breed tiny Arabians or Quarter Horses. Some jumpers may do well there. I do have more experience with jumping anyways. A horse still needs to wait a few years before it should jump, but a lot of horses catch on pretty quickly.


Do you know what lines are popular for jumping? Are you able to keep up with the cost of training, and going to each and every show, including ones on the east coast? What will you do for marketing? Can you build a website on your own or would you pay someone?

I've seen a ton of websites lately that looked as if they were built in the early 1990's, gaudy colors, sparkles, etc and that puts me off from ever even looking at any of their stock. Would you hire someone for photography? These are small details but none the less very important ones.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

MsBHavin said:


> Do you know what lines are popular for jumping? Are you able to keep up with the cost of training, and going to each and every show, including ones on the east coast? What will you do for marketing? Can you build a website on your own or would you pay someone?
> 
> I've seen a ton of websites lately that looked as if they were built in the early 1990's, gaudy colors, sparkles, etc and that puts me off from ever even looking at any of their stock. Would you hire someone for photography? These are small details but none the less very important ones.


I do not know much about different lines, but that is one of the things I plan on learning before I start. I plan on doing the training myself. I know how to teach jumping, but I will get more experience before I begin with a breeding farm. 

As for websites, I am good with that. I am pretty good with Photography, and plan on getting better.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Jalter said:


> I do not know much about different lines, but that is one of the things I plan on learning before I start. I plan on doing the training myself. I know how to teach jumping, but I will get more experience before I begin with a breeding farm.


But could you bring the horse to the upper levels by your training alone? what about hiring someone to ride him/her and show off the horses talents?


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

MsBHavin said:


> But could you bring the horse to the upper levels by your training alone? what about hiring someone to ride him/her and show off the horses talents?


I would like to show the horse myself locally, but I am willing to hire someone for out of town stuff. As for bringing the horse to upper levels, as of now, I am not that good, but I plan on getting better. I also plan on having a job while the breeding stable is still starting out. I understand this is going to cost a fortune, which is intimidating, but im going to jump in and financially screw myself, haha.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

My BO raises a few thoroughbreds for the track. She does it as a hobby - most years she's lucky to break even. She has a couple mares with spectacular bloodlines that suffered freak injuries that ended their carreers early, and a stallion that was very promising as a 3 year old but suffered a fracture that ended his carreer. Even with great blood lines its a huge guessing game. One mare has a sire that won millions on the track, and was bred to a stallion who's sire also won millions. They had two foals together, The first had NO desire to run, at all. the trainers said to take her home and turn her into a trail horse(which is what happened, and she sold to someone as a trail horse for far, far, FAR, less than the training, registering, etc cost in the first place. Her brother however, is very successful on the track, and is racing again this year.

-Breeding is such a shot in the dark. The first thing I would do if I were you would be acually deciding on a disapline you LOVE, not one that is "popular". If you dislike dressage and try to breed dressage horses, you will fail.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I just want to know how you are going to pay for all of this plan. You will have to marry a millionaire who is willing to drop hundreds of thousands of $$$ on your hobby. I know dozens of serious breeders that raise good horses and have a market for them and they are NOT posting a profit and actually post HUGE losses against their REAL source of income on most years

I have helped several of them figure out what year will be their 'profit year' and how to market 1, 2 and 3 year olds in a single year to satisfy IRS requirements --- and these people were selling $10,000.00 + prospects. Some years they had to also sell off some mares and had to NOT declare many expenses to make that year a 'profit year'.

While your posts show a great desire to become a successful breeder, they also show a huge degree naivety. Without years of experience actually buying, training, showing, and selling successful show horses, you simply cannot know what you do not know. 



> I will show her, and after she shows a successful career


What makes you think you will buy one nice prospect and you will instantly show it to be a successful show winner? I know people that have bought a dozen nice (not cheap) prospects and are still looking for their first successful show prospect. I know people that place a dozen or more prospects into training to try to come up with one that will be show quality that is worthy to continue training to a high level. Bear in mind that the 'flunk-out' prospects will be all be sold at a loss. I have seen many $50,000.00 prospects that were later sold for less than $5000.00. [I have bought some of them] I have seen many prospects and even well started horses from just about every venue that have been sold for a fraction of the stud fee paid by their dam's owner at time of breeding.

You talk like it is easy to breed, train and show a winning horse -- like it will be a automatic success story. All of us that have competed on ANY level can tell you that it is not that easy and is not anywhere near an automatic success.

Until you work and possibly train in a big successful program, you do not know what you do not know.


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## Jalter (Oct 5, 2012)

Cherie said:


> I just want to know how you are going to pay for all of this plan. You will have to marry a millionaire who is willing to drop hundreds of thousands of $$$ on your hobby. I know dozens of serious breeders that raise good horses and have a market for them and they are NOT posting a profit and actually post HUGE losses against their REAL source of income on most years
> 
> I have helped several of them figure out what year will be their 'profit year' and how to market 1, 2 and 3 year olds in a single year to satisfy IRS requirements --- and these people were selling $10,000.00 + prospects. Some years they had to also sell off some mares and had to NOT declare many expenses to make that year a 'profit year'.
> 
> ...


I am naive about this, but I do not think it will be easy. I plan on getting more experience before I start any of this. As for the money, I am not sure how I am going to start out. My boyfriend is supportive on this, and is willing to help me out. He is willing to help me buy a stallion with good bloodlines (yes, an expensive one). We can compete with him and put out stud fees. Hopefull the stud fess will help pay off the stud, then we can figure things out from.there.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Jalter said:


> I am naive about this, but I do not think it will be easy. I plan on getting more experience before I start any of this. As for the money, I am not sure how I am going to start out. My boyfriend is supportive on this, and is willing to help me out. He is willing to help me buy a stallion with good bloodlines (yes, an expensive one). We can compete with him and put out stud fees. Hopefull the stud fess will help pay off the stud, then we can figure things out from.there.



That's the problem though, the stud fees will never pay off the stud, he will always be accruing costs, what if he breaks his leg? or gets kicked by a mare in the testicles? He'll be of no use to you and you'll never get your money 'out' of him. Horses really don't work like that and anyone can tell you that getting into breeding to MAKE money is a stupid idea, unless of course you're willing to cut corners on their health.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Proving a stallion and having him generate income is even more difficult than proving a mare. I do not know anyone that hauls a stallion (or any show horse for that matter) that does not drop over $500.00 per show -- much higher at high level shows where entry and judges' fees are high. This, of course, is after putting at least 2 years of training and other expenses into a horse.

One has over $50,000.00 tied up in decent hauling equipment. A 'show rig' will cost over $100,000.00.


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## BrieannaKelly (May 31, 2012)

It is great to have aspirations and dreams of a successful future with the passion you love, in this case horses. 
I have always had the belief, that anything is possible. ;-)
Whether or not you end up making a living at this a long time down the road from now or not, you will have at least tried and been doing something you desired. 
So many people don't believe in themselves and are lazy and just expect things to come to them. Obviously no one here on HF, we all have the same passion of horses. 
Everyone has their own way of doing things and have different ideas of many things. Especially in the horse industry. 
This dream of yours is very possible BUT, VERY hard work and VERY EXPENSIVE! It can and will be very heartbreaking when you lose a horse and you WILL at some point, whether it's a mare from foaling or a foal from something gone wrong or the stud from a sickness. 
Everyone else has had great points and great advise. I wish you well in your en devours and all the best! 
Get as much hands on experience as you possibly can before investing too much.
Think that's all the advise I have, lol. ;-)


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