# Comformation critique/ jumper potential?



## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I would just like to know what everyone here thinks of my new boys confirmation?
I would like to jump him when he gets older and was also wondering what everyone thinks. 
Info: 
3 yr old standardbred
15.2 hands


























And here is a short video
MVI_6233.mp4 video by gothicangel_69 - Photobucket


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Still young but the first thing i notice is that he is super flat backed with a steep shoulder and really sickle-hocked, which may affect his jumping abilities later on. Has your typical Standardbred face & though he lacks muscle now that will come with age.


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## OTTBLover (Jun 23, 2011)

Horse Conformation: Sickle Hock by Cherry Hill


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Is there any way to build certain muscles to compensate for sickle hock, or should I give up my dream of someday jumping him? I didn't buy him specifically for jumping, just as a companion, but would like to do some form of horse sport with him and jumping seemed like it would be a fun thing to learn. If he's not built for it though, that's ok. He's my boy and I love him no matter what he can or cannot do. 
Any sport you guys think I should try with him based on his confirmation? I ride western, but wouldn't mind switching to english.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Depends on what you mean by jumping him. 

If you want to lark over logs and crossrails when you pleasure ride, or jump courses of 2' to 3' he should be fine. If your ambition is rated hunters, jumpers at 3'6" and above, or eventing at Training Level and above, I don't think he's the right horse for the job.

I'd be careful to make sure he was very fit before starting over fences, and keep the fences fairly low; as his long back and flat loin and croup predisposes him to "jumper's bump."

Don't mean to be a smart alec here; but the sports STBs are best suited for are ones that involve pulling a carraige or doing lots of trotting.  Since they are generally sweet-natured and willing souls, you can train them to do just about anything, but pulling and driving is what they were bred to do. 

If he were mine, I'd either get a harness and carriage and drive him, or do some long distance trail riding where that ability to stay in a long, steady trot would an advantage.


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

He looks shiny and happy in his big pile of hay  

However, I'd have a vet look at those hocks. That was the first thing that jumped out at me, and I wouldn't just call it sickle hocked without further examination. Sometimes, an odd stance like that can be associated with injury, and by the way that the hind cannon sort of bows out under the hock, I'd want to rule out injury before doing anything with him. It could turn out to be something treatable, untreatable, or it could be a non-issue, but at least you know what you are working with.

What was his history before you got him? Did he race at all? Anyway, he looks sweet and I am so glad to hear that you have only his best interests in mind and will care for him no matter what


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I got him from someone who had purchased him from a meat auction in the spring. Apparently he had slipped and fallen in the pasture during the winter and injured himself (bowed tendon to the front left, injury of some type to the back, and a huge gash over his eye)
I managed to track his freezemark to his breeder and found out that he did race briefly as a two year old. His registered name is Mark to Market out of Real Desire and Low Places- Jate Lobell. I have changed his name to AfterFlash though.
I have been slowely re-conditioning him from the injuries (the tendons have healed and are nice and hard)
Havn't been riding him as when I got him he was very underweight as well as knew no ground work whatsoever. The weight is comming back on nicely, but I probably wont be doing any riding for another month or so, and then just at a walk and brief trot until spring.
Here is a picture under saddle though. His back legs dont look as tucked under in this one.


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Oh, and he's also got a bit of wry foot in the back two feet, which could be making him stand funny. He is getting a barefoot trim done, and the farrier is very confident that it will be completely better come spring.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Gothic, He is looking better and better and shows the shine of a loving hand. Does he gait at all? He does have odd looking hocks, but on the good side, he has really good bone, all around, nice front legs and good shoulder.

One quick thing, in the photo of him saddled, the saddle looks like it is sitting kind of high off his whither area, as if it might be too narrow for him. Now, this is just a quick observation from a photo where he isn't necessarily squared up, so could be way off.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

Can you really judge a horse's jumping potential by just conformation photos??


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

The saddle is quite high in this photo. I took this one when I went to go buy him. He has a different saddle now that seems to fit him much better.
He was trained as a pacer, but I have never seen him pace in the paddock or anything. He does have a beautiful, long strided trot though.
He looks much better now then he did when I brought him home though.
Check it out...


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

Eliz said:


> Can you really judge a horse's jumping potential by just conformation photos??


Confo pictures are great, but you need to either see him moving about in person or a video of him doing flatwork and some jumping as well. 

BUT you can extrapolate by his conformation what he would be good at, how far you can take him i.e if he's GP material or pleasure horse only, Conformation is ALL, heart is second. That is why there are horses that excel in certain arena's, dressage, jumping, eventing, racing. I mean seriously, have you ever seen them toss in a swaybacked knock knee'd, sickle hocked too over at the knee TB in with the rest of those beauties? No lol, because he won't make it his conformation will not allow it, his bones ligaments etc.. don't move the same way as a well conformed horse. 

A horse that has bad conformation, WILL have ALOT of issues if he's being pushed to do something his build just wont allow.


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I have a couple videos of him walking and trotting that I figured I would post. How does he look moving?

MVI_6228.mp4 video by gothicangel_69 - Photobucket

MVI_6233.mp4 video by gothicangel_69 - Photobucket

This one is just him being silly, but thought it was funny so decided to post it as well.
MVI_6225.mp4 video by gothicangel_69 - Photobucket


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## myyky (Sep 8, 2010)

He could be an awesome jumper.. Standies are actually known for being pretty good jumpers!
I ride a boy who is 22 and standardbred as well.. I think he could easily clear an 80cm course.. I don't jump that high though! I've been told by a few people that he has a nice jump. He has FAR from perfect conformation. 

It really depends on the horse  I would clear with the vet that he would be sound enough to jump, as his hocks do look a bit exaggerated.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

i disagree with the above post. this horse has really odd hocks which will greatly affect his scope over fences and will be predisposed to lameness. He will likely be fine for small fences but is not likely to have the strength for big stuff. pleasure riding is a performance discipline too though so don't be too upset. 

Personally I wouldn't buy a horse with hocks like his but i am a jumping rider and currently train to 3' with goals to increase that height as soon as i have the right saddle for it.

edited to correct a word. darn T9...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the replies. I will not take the risk in jumping him if most people here believe it would not be in his best interest. Maybe small jumps every now and then when he gets older, but that would just be for fun.


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

I watched the vid of him trotting, and he looks "disconnected" his back end isn't "in tune" with his front end. He is ewe necked, and needs some serious muscling.

Nobody said you can't jump him, do some dressage with him first, get him to "connect" and "collect" himself, you can do lower lvl jumping without hurting him, I think BEP was thinking that you intented to try and take him to higher lvls. First and foremost enjoy him, he's a pretty boy


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## ponyjocky (Apr 12, 2010)

No. only by a video of the horse going over fences. If i posted pictures of my horses asking if they have jumping potential i don't think i would get particularly great answers, but they both school 3-4ft courses.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

_What a sweet guy! He looks like he has found himself a lovely home to live in and as you said, he's been bought as a companion so what he can and can't do isn't defined by the love and fun you can have with him all the same.

Like everyone else, I see the odd hocks and have to wonder if he could handle a lot of jumping. He's young and definitely needs some building up, but like Maura said, he should be able to pop over little jumps in moderation happily. 

I have to politely disagree with Maura over the statement she made on what sports suit Standardbreds the most however. Perhaps I'm biased, because I have been in the NZ Standardbred scene for over 7yrs now and seen a lot of different types and sizes/shapes of Standardbreds that excel in sports more than carriage/cart pulling. Most horses were specifically bred for farm work or pulling carriages and now excel in ridden pursuits, through breeding and evolution - as Standardbreds have also gone through in the recent years. Whilst they do have conformation faults (like any breed), they can do well in many things, showing, dressage, jumping, eventing and endurance just to name a few. With some exceptions, no Standardbreds will not be able to compete at high competition levels, though can happily take a rider down any path that their willingness and ability allows. I've seen quite a few Standies take out a few well bred hacks, park hacks and even a hunter or two at shows in recent years, even going supreme champion at some well known shows. 

I would say not to worry about jumping for now, and work on building his muscles... with such a long back you'll have to work on connecting his back end in with his front... in my experience with Standardbreds, the longer backed horses can run at different tempos front and back. It's not something hard to accomplish, sometimes they just need to be reminded that they're one big horse, and require more leg or a light tap with a dressage whip to get their back end working properly. My gelding was quite long backed, though thankfully was well balanced and didn't disunite. A friend had a similar built horse and he would disunite.. a tap with a dressage whip would help him bring his hind under himself and work at the same tempo. I would suggest also, because he will still be growing into his body to take his training slowly... with being so long, he will need to build his back muscles especially for riding work, and slow and steady will help him immensely.

But to repeat, you did say this sweet man was to be a companion first and foremost. I'm sure you'll get a great bond together where you'll be able to tell what he enjoys and what he doesn't XD.

I hope my opinion doesn't offend 
_


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Wonderful advice yet again! He does need some serious muscle gain. Im worried about riding him though until he gets some muscles and fat on his back. Right now his back is pretty boney and I would think a saddle would bother him. I have been doing a little lunging with him and hand walking (lunging mostly at a walk). I'm worried about doing too much work with him as I'd like him to get some more weight on.
I expect it will take until April or May next year before he will be ready for any type of hard work.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

_I would work on getting some more fat into his body and slowly condition his muscles. I think your outlook is realistic. 

My mare recently had to be reconditioned... she was very sore and it took several weeks of just walking under saddle before we could add in 2mins of trotting. At first when the chiro gave me my schedule, I was a little stunned. I was ignorant. It was the best thing I could have done though. We all forget just how important the walk sets up everything. There's so much that can be done at the walk also. My mare and I are at a level now where everything is starting to click because I didn't rush with her. Not suggesting you would, but even if you spent 6weeks walking about consistently for 20mins or so, that's going to help him with getting to understand what he's like and finding his rhythm etc. It's also going to help him learn to carry a saddle and rider without the impact of a faster gait.

I think it sounds like you're on the right track. Just be careful not to overdo the lunging. Standardbreds that have been in a cart are naturally heavy on the forehand. That means circle work (even in large circles) can be impacting on their shoulders. I don't lunge much anymore, if at all, simply because my mare has been sore through the shoulder in the past. Try walking him out inhand... or long reining him... that way he won't be going around and around in circles. Especially with him being so long and having to try and pull himself together, I would be cautious not to lunge more than twice a week and for not very long at all. 

Hope this helps!!
_


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

schelle, 

Actually, I think you and are in perfect agreement, except perhaps other than our use of the word "excel." Also, I am only familiar with the American Standardbred, not the NZ one. To me "excel" means succeed consistently at the highest level of a discipline. A STB is certainly capable of doing a respectable 2'6" or 3' course at a local hunter show; but not of competing in a rated hunter competition against TBs and WBs. Capable of doing a really nice Intro, Training or First level test, but will probably struggle with anything over 2nd Level, and I know of none competing at the FEI levels. Capable of being a safe lower level event horse....you get the idea. 

That shouldn't dissuade anyone from rehabbing one off of the track and making it into a pleasure horse or all arounder; their dispositions are fabulous and STBs off the track usually have great ground manners.



> Originally Posted by *Eliz*
> _Can you really judge a horse's jumping potential by just conformation photos??_





> Confo pictures are great, but you need to either see him moving about in person or a video of him doing flatwork and some jumping as well.





> No. Only by a video of the horse going over fences.


I disagree, as do Dr. Deb Bennett, Champ Hough, Gene Cunningham, Julie Winkel, Olive Britt and a lot of other professional horsemen who have made their livings evaluating young prospects primarily by analyzing conformation. 

Yes, heart and desire have a big effect, and there are perfectly conformed horses who have the ability but no desire to do the job. However, a horse with a short, upright shoulder and pastern, a short humerus, and cannon the same length as its forearm will NOT be a good jumper because they lack the mechanical ability to lift their shoulder and snap their knees. All the heart in the world can't change that. Similiarly, if a horse is built downhill, is post legged behind and has a thick throatlatch, all the heart in the world won't get it past second level in dressage because it lacks the mechanical ability to collect.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

maura said:


> schelle,
> 
> Actually, I think you and are in perfect agreement, except perhaps other than our use of the word "excel." Also, I am only familiar with the American Standardbred, not the NZ one. To me "excel" means succeed consistently at the highest level of a discipline. A STB is certainly capable of doing a respectable 2'6" or 3' course at a local hunter show; but not of competing in a rated hunter competition against TBs and WBs. Capable of doing a really nice Intro, Training or First level test, but will probably struggle with anything over 2nd Level, and I know of none competing at the FEI levels. Capable of being a safe lower level event horse....you get the idea.
> 
> That shouldn't dissuade anyone from rehabbing one off of the track and making it into a pleasure horse or all arounder; their dispositions are fabulous and STBs off the track usually have great ground manners.



_Aha, yes we are in agreement then. Yes, I realise the use of the word excel was a bit moot on my behalf, we do share the same view here indeed  Over here I know of Standardbreds that are schooling Medium dressage (not sure what that relates to in Amercian Dressage) at home and competing successfully at Elementary but no, I doubt many Standardbreds are bred and built for the likes of Advanced dressage - most horses aren't either! A lot of people are also breeding warmbloods to Standies in Germany for their expressive trotting action... it seems to becoming more of a trend... though the German Standardbreds are nothing like the NZ or American as I've come to realise. Over here a lot of TBs and Clydies stallions are being crossed with Standardbreds now and leaving very nice looking sporthorses. Its certainly interesting that in the past ten years here in NZ, Standardbreds and the prejudice around them is declining and they're becoming a well known versatile breed. 

But again, relating NZ sport to American is like relating soccer to American football - different leagues, different capabilities, a different sport! _


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