# So....tell me about this SmartPak



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I've been getting packets sent to my house every other week advertising SmartPak, every magazine I have is littered with their ads, and I'm thinking about trying them out. Some questions first:

1) How much does it cost, on average, per horse?
2) Have you seen a noticeable change since using SmartPak supplements, and which ones?
3) Any other comments.


Arthur, my Paso Fino, is a senior at 24, he has uveitis in one eye and has trouble keeping weight on. He also has lost teeth and drops most of his feed, though the vet said there's nothing to do for his teeth. He is a fantastic ride even at 24, and will ride on trail all day, he even does some jumping.

Molly is a coming 7-yr old Thoroughbred who rides dressage and does gymkhana. She has a lot of energy, I've tried B-1 and don't know if it worked, it seemed to a bit. She has excellent feet.

Excel is an eventer in training and a coming 6-yr old Thoroughbred. He was recently retired from his racing career and has finally put enough weight on, and he seems to be maintaining it. He has very bad feet, however, and has pads on front. They're very shallow and he loses shoes often. He also has a lottt of energy and could benefit from a calming supplement, or something to calm his nerves, as he is often nervous on trail.

Lenox is an overweight 12-yr old Percheron. She is very calm and loves attention, has great feet, and I don't think she needs any specific supplements.
So, for these horses, which SmartPaks would you reccomend?


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## dressagebelle (May 13, 2009)

I personally have never used smart paks with my horses, so I can't give you any opinions on what you should pick from all the supplements they have, but I can tell you that so far, everyone I've talked to that uses smart paks loves them. They say that its made a big difference in their horses, and its so much easier than having to go to around to all the different feed stores to find what they want, in stock, and at a decent price, not to mention you have the option of buying as paks, or just buying the whole bucket of supplement, but its all right there, in one catalog, and it gets delivered when needed, and you can always just call and ask to either change, or add a supplement to what you already have for your horse with no hassles. So I would say that its worth trying it out, and seeing if it works for your guys.


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

I have one of my horses on a joint supplement which I have delivered in smartpaks every month. My other 2 horses will probably go on smartpaks this summer (electrolytes & a multi vitamin). 

Cost depends on what supplements you pick for your horse. I picked a stronger (& pricier) joint supplement for my horse, which costs $54 a month. They offer so many supplements that you should be able to find something in your price range without a problem. In the catalogs they'll often have a little "bio" on famous horses who are fed smartpak supps, their paks often cost $90-100 a month, but they're on numerous supps.

I LOVE smartpak's customer service. My orders are on autoship and they call me every month before it's sent and ask how everything is working out and if I need to add anything else to my order. If I do need to add more supplies the shipping rate doesn't change. EVERYTHING ships for $6.95, but you can often find free shipping codes online.

I'm not in a place to recommend supps for your horses, that's something you need to decide on - but smartpak does have a whole team of supplement advisors you can call. They're very knowledgable and can answer any questions you have and can point you in the right directions for supps for you horses. Also, make sure you talk to your vet about which supps they have had success with so you make sure you're not wasting your money.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I like Smartpak, mostly because I heard/read that their ingredients are usually high grade and fresh.

Had good results with their Senior supplement for my old mare Flame. She was very arthritic and stiff and it helped her become a lot more comfortable for the last couple of years.

I have Soda on their one of their Smart Hoof supplements right now, but it's too early to tell if it's made a real difference. Unfortunately it takes 9-12 mnths for you to see a noticiable difference in hoof quality. I will say that his hoof crack hasn't gone any further in the last month, but I'm not sure if that's due to the supplement or not.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

I love smart paks, it makes it so much easier to give supplements to my horses, they do have a little questionnaire to help you decided what supplements would be beneficial for your horse SmartPak - Supplement Advisor and when they recomened what types of supplements they also give you a list of different ones so you can pick something in your price range


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Wow, I took the questionaire....and apparently for three horses it'll be costing me $240 a month :shock:


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I like SmartPak's customer service and will start Abby on SmartCalm soon. I actually just got her SmartCalm pellet samples in the mail today. She loveeed the powder, but I am debating between pellets or powder. 

I wouldn't go a whole lot on their Supplement Advisor quiz if you don't know what exactly you want your horse having. I took it for Abby and it would cost me $150 a month on supplements, and it didn't even add a ulcer treatment/prevention until the most expensive choice. That's just my experience though. I'm sure my horse would have a glowing halo around her if I had her all the stuff they suggested. 

I imagine a a huge barn with dozens of horses on supplements, the smartpaks would be super convenient, but my barn has 12 horses and several of them get Progressive instead of grain, which wouldn't work in SmartPaks unless they came in HUGE size. Haha. I also am a fan of mixing grains, but I can see where it'd get tedious with many horses. 

Either way, their customer service rocks. They CALLED me a week or so after I got the SmartCalm powder sample to see if Abby liked it. (You can email them and request a sample. It's a 3 day amount to see if your horse will eat it.)


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Poseidon said:


> I like SmartPak's customer service and will start Abby on SmartCalm soon. I actually just got her SmartCalm pellet samples in the mail today. She loveeed the powder, but I am debating between pellets or powder.
> 
> I wouldn't go a whole lot on their Supplement Advisor quiz if you don't know what exactly you want your horse having. I took it for Abby and it would cost me $150 a month on supplements, and it didn't even add a ulcer treatment/prevention until the most expensive choice. That's just my experience though. I'm sure my horse would have a glowing halo around her if I had her all the stuff they suggested.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the information....not sure what of the supplements suggested I "need", but we'll see. JW, why do you mix grains? I've heard that mixing them minimizes the nutrients.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I love smartpak - I have Nelson on 4 suppliments through them and I pay about $80ish a month. But I've also been a customer for over a year and I get $ taken off my smartpaks for a year, plus free shipping.

I have Nelson on SmartFlex Senior Herb Free Pellets, SmartDigest Ultra, SmartGut Pellets and Smart Repair.

I love how knowledgeable the SmartPak representatives are and how well they listen, the questions they ask and the suggestions they give, without pressure to purchase. 

Their shipments are quick, on time and I have yet to have a complaint.

~~~

I suggest you call them directly, and talk to them in person and have them guide you through their products instead of taking a questionaire.

They are great to work with.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

i use Equi-Supps - Home which is like smartpak but usually cheaper (and local to me but she ships all over the world).

similar, easier for me to customize what my horses are on.
smart pack/ equisupps imo are both great!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> Thanks for the information....not sure what of the supplements suggested I "need", but we'll see.


For Abby, her results were something along the lines of:

Level 1: Some kind of vitamin
Level 2: Same vitamin and something else with vitamins..
Level 3: Those vitamins, SmartCalm, SmartGut, and probably some other digestive supplement.

With those other vitamins and supplements, it would cost me $5/day. I want SmartCalm to 1) calm her fat butt down about the world and 2) less anxiety = less stress. Less stress = lowered chance of ulcers returning. I plan to use UGard instead of SmartGut because my BO suggested it. 3 of their show horses are on it and apparently is amazing. 

I also plan to buy my UGard from Stateline because it's cheaper there. 10lb buckets end up being $0.65/day. For a 4.5lb bucket of SmartCalm pellets, it's $0.73/day. $1.38/day is MUCH cheaper than $5/day. Haha.

Sorry for the rant. I do love SmartPak.

I agree with MIEventer: Talk to them personally through email or calling them. They're extremely helpful and usually respond to emails immediately.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'll give them a call tomorrow after school, thanks for all the advice!


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> Wow, I took the questionaire....and apparently for three horses it'll be costing me $240 a month :shock:


I went through and decided what i needed and what i didn't for each of my horses, i think for all 3 horses i pay about $115 a month


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

For Arthur, they reccomended
-Pure C
-Senior Flex
-SmartShine
-SmartVite Senior Grass pellets

Excel:
-Mega-cell
-SmartFlex || Support with Chondroitin
-SmartCalm
-SmartHoof Pellets
-SmartShine

Molly:
-Mega-cell
-SmartFlex || Support with Chondroitin
-SmartCalm
-SmartShine

Gah, this is confusing, I'll call 'em up tomorrow and ask.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

I am also thinking of doing this:

Santana's Smartpak would include:

-Omega Horseshine (this is my addition since she is currently on this and its working very well)
-SmartFlex
-SmartVite

It would cost me $89.80/month and that is with 4 scoops instead of 2 of the Omega Horseshine since she is currently trying to gain weight.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Their service is great: fast delivery, good communications, returns are not a problem. I bought tack in past and am buying calming supplements for several months already and have been very satisfied. Would definitely recommend.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

I can't say enough great things about SmartPak. They are my first choice when buying tack, clothing, supplies, meds, supplements, etc. They have the GREATEST customer service I've ever seen. I have Zee (a 21 year old Hanoverian) on Succeed for his digestion, SmartRepair for his arthritis and recent suspensory tear, SmartProtect for senior vitamins, and SmartCalm to keep him calm while on stall rest. I've also used SmartEnergy and SmartMuscle to help him when I first put him back into work. My total supplement cost is usually around $200 a month.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I love smartpak. I buy tack and clothes from them as well as supplements.

Pistol is on a monthly Sand Clear regimen, it's about $19 to have it shipped to my house each month. I like it because I don't have to take the time to go out to the store to buy it. 

Riley is on Flex III that is about $54 a month but it's pre-measured and very convenient.

Blue is on Quiessence, it's only $19 per month....


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

The Smartpak supplements are great for people on more of a budget. I think their supplements are better than adequate! Smartcalm is better than Quiesscence and Perfect Prep. Smartflex repair is equal to Cosequin ASU - I used 'em all!!!

But I gotta say my horse's condition really jumped when i started feeding him supplements for those same purposes from Dynamite.


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## AspendaleFarm (Feb 25, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Either way, their customer service rocks. They CALLED me a week or so after I got the SmartCalm powder sample to see if Abby liked it. (You can email them and request a sample. It's a 3 day amount to see if your horse will eat it.)


I had a similarly good experience, too. My daughter's new mare needed a weight gain supplement and they sent me three samples to try to see which ones she would eat. Then they called to see how it was working out and whether they needed to send different supplements. She's on Fat-Cat right now. We also use Omega Horseshine (I *loove* the Omega Horseshine!!!) and in the past I've had another mare (now retired and not at our farm anymore) on Mare Magic to calm down her "female" moodiness.

I'm a bit budget conscious, so, although I've had the monthly supplements sent in smartpaks, right now I'm on their auto-ship program to have a bucket of Fat-Cat sent every month or so. It's cheaper. But not all of their supplements are cheaper in bulk. Sometimes it's the same price as getting it in smartpaks. 

I love that their catalogs let you compare ingredients, amounts, serving sizes, cost-per-serving ... and if you order a certain amount in smartpaks each month, shipping is free. If you don't qualify for free shipping, you can split the shipping cost with a "barn buddy".

Actually, I'm sorry I don't live on the east coast, 'cause even though I don't need a job, I'd love to work for Smartpak! LOL!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I get my SmartCalm tomorrow! I got pellets to make sure Abby gets them as she's fed outside. I have one day's sample left and I have fed the others by hand. She thinks they're treats and tried taking the smartpak they came in out of my hand to eat it too.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

equiniphile said:


> I've been getting packets sent to my house every other week advertising SmartPak, every magazine I have is littered with their ads, and I'm thinking about trying them out. Some questions first:
> 
> 1) How much does it cost, on average, per horse?
> 2) Have you seen a noticeable change since using SmartPak supplements, and which ones?
> 3) Any other comments.


SmartPak is just an online company selling supplements. They sell them by the bucket or in their "paks" with daily servings pre-measured for you. It can be convenient if your horses get 2 or more supplements a day, however IME, it's cheaper to buy the large buckets of supplements from other stores. SmartPak's pricing on tubs of supplements are not that low.

The cost depends on what you get.



> Arthur, my Paso Fino, is a senior at 24, he has uveitis in one eye and has trouble keeping weight on. He also has lost teeth and drops most of his feed, though the vet said there's nothing to do for his teeth. He is a fantastic ride even at 24, and will ride on trail all day, he even does some jumping.


Sounds like you need this guy on soaked senior feed and soaked hay cubes. I would add 1-2 cups of ground flax to his diet for added fat. That should put on good weight. It doesn't sound like he needs any joint or other senior supplements. They only thing you might put him on is a digestive aid to help him put on a bit of weight. Something like Probios powder or other pro/prebiotic supplement. 
Probios Powder - Horse Digestive Supplements from SmartPak Equine
SmartDigest - Horse Digestive Supplements from SmartPak Equine
Grand Digest - Horse Digestive Supplements from SmartPak Equine



> Molly is a coming 7-yr old Thoroughbred who rides dressage and does gymkhana. She has a lot of energy, I've tried B-1 and don't know if it worked, it seemed to a bit. She has excellent feet.


If you want to calm her down, make sure she is on NO grain or horse feed that has ANY corn, molasses, wheat middlings, barley, etc. You want her on a "calm" diet that is low in sugar and starch. I would put her on a "lite" feed or a ration balancer, where you feed only 1-2 lbs a day. Most "lite" feeds are feed at the rate of 2-4 lbs a day. Triple Crown has a great Lite formula and their "30% Supplement" is a great ration balancer. She should be on grass hay, timothy, or other "calm" hay. Some alfalfa is good for nutrition, but I wouldn't be feeding her much, no more than 3-4 lbs a day.
Triple Crown Lite Formula | www.triplecrownfeed.com
Triple Crown 30% Supplement | www.triplecrownfeed.com

After you get her diet calmed down, you can think of adding a calming supplement. Look for one high in Magnesium, B-1, and/or Tryptophan. It doesn't sound like she needs any other supplements.
SmartPak Equine - SmartCalm?
Ex Stress - Horse Calming Supplements from SmartPak Equine
Total Calm & Focus - Horse Calming Supplements from SmartPak Equine



> Excel is an eventer in training and a coming 6-yr old Thoroughbred. He was recently retired from his racing career and has finally put enough weight on, and he seems to be maintaining it. He has very bad feet, however, and has pads on front. They're very shallow and he loses shoes often. He also has a lottt of energy and could benefit from a calming supplement, or something to calm his nerves, as he is often nervous on trail.


Again, calm the diet down first. Then consider adding the same calming supplement as the above horse. For feet, I really like Source Focus HF and flax meal. 1/2 -1 cup (2-4 oz) of flax is great for hoof and hair health, as well as maintaining weight. Source Focus HF is a great supplement for hood growth, helping the hoof wall grow in tight and hard. It really works well.
Focus HF - Horse Hoof Supplements from SmartPak Equine
Omega Horseshine - Horse Skin & Coat Supplements from SmartPak Equine



> Lenox is an overweight 12-yr old Percheron. She is very calm and loves attention, has great feet, and I don't think she needs any specific supplements.


If she's overweight, a metabolic supplement may help her better metabolize the sugars in her diet, like Quiessence.
Quiessence - Horse Calming Supplements from SmartPak Equine

So, you don't really need SmartPaks as most of your horses only really need one supplement. You should be able to find flax cheaper locally. My feed store carries 50 lbs of "no-name" ground flax for $28, whichis A LOT cheaper than Omega Horseshine or any of the other ground flax products you can buy online.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

My Beau said:


> I LOVE smartpak's customer service. My orders are on autoship and they call me every month before it's sent and ask how everything is working out and if I need to add anything else to my order. If I do need to add more supplies the shipping rate doesn't change. EVERYTHING ships for $6.95, but you can often find free shipping codes online.


Auto-Ship SmartPaks now ship free if they are over $40 a month. I have a boarder with two horses on SmartPaks that ship together and are now shipping free.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Smart Paks are really convenient but more expensive than buying supplements in buckets from my local vet supply place. 

I give both of my horses Corta-flx, cheapest SmartPak had it was $.78 a day. I bought it locally for $0.41 a day which is a huge price difference. Luckily, the place I board has no issues with me providing buckets of stuff instead of Smart Paks.


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## AspendaleFarm (Feb 25, 2011)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> So, you don't really need SmartPaks as most of your horses only really need one supplement. You should be able to find flax cheaper locally. My feed store carries 50 lbs of "no-name" ground flax for $28, whichis A LOT cheaper than Omega Horseshine or any of the other ground flax products you can buy online.


The benefit of Omega Horseshine, which makes it pricier, is that it is stabilized, so the bag won't go rancid before you can use it. ALternatively, you can refrigerate your ground flaxseed and it will keep 2 or 3 months, or you can store it whole a grind it yourself as needed.


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## AspendaleFarm (Feb 25, 2011)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> So, you don't really need SmartPaks as most of your horses only really need one supplement. You should be able to find flax cheaper locally. My feed store carries 50 lbs of "no-name" ground flax for $28, whichis A LOT cheaper than Omega Horseshine or any of the other ground flax products you can buy online.


The benefit of Omega Horseshine, which makes it pricier, is that it is stabilized, so the bag won't go rancid before you can use it. Alternatively, you can refrigerate your ground flaxseed and it will keep 2 or 3 months, or you can store it whole a grind it yourself as needed.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

AspendaleFarm said:


> The benefit of Omega Horseshine, which makes it pricier, is that it is stabilized, so the bag won't go rancid before you can use it. ALternatively, you can refrigerate your ground flaxseed and it will keep 2 or 3 months, or you can store it whole a grind it yourself as needed.


I pour mine up in large buckets that have air-tight lids, so only one is being opened and closed daily. I go through 50 lbs in about 6 weeks, so it works out well for me. I do not refrigerate it.

Horsetech.com also sells stabilized flax. Their prices include shipping and they will custom blend you supplements in their flax base, so you can have just one bucket for everything you need. I used to use Horsetech.com for all of my supplements, but with 9 horses now, I have to watch my budget at little more closely ;-).


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

I would love to try out SmartPack...but, according to thier webiste, they currently only ship within the United States  
Does anyone know of any companies like SmartPack in Canada?


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## crazyhorse1 (Nov 4, 2009)

*Smart Paks*

Wow, you all must have much more money to spend on your loves, then I do!!! I do my research, then get online and find where I can find the same supplements for a lot less, plus they are not in the little plastic packs, which I would consider over use of plastics. My horses are very healthy, (Montana is itchy still, working on it) and seem to be very happy. More power to ya!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm not going to lie, I ordered Abby's U-Gard from Stateline because with shipping, it was $15 cheaper. I got her SmartCalm from SmartPak because it's their product. haha.


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

Luvs2Ride - I'm new here, and it sounds like you are incredibly well versed in nutrition! The people in this forum are lucky to have you.

A few things I'd like to point out, if you all won't mind a newbie piping up 

1. Flax is actually fairly toxic without a lot of processing - to horses and humans. It's not my favorite, I see horses do better on other sources of fat than flax. While I realize it's wildly popular, the truth is that ancient cultures used it for clothing - not food. I personally prefer sources like chia (used for food since ancient times, by the same Aztecs who chose to use Flax for clothing- and very high in omega 3's) or organic soy to add fat and calories to a horse's diet, personally. I think it's easier on the system.

2. Menadione, an artificial form of Vitamin K used in Triple Crown feeds as well as Pennfields and many pet foods in general, is documented online to cause a variety of negative side effects - including allergies, liver toxicity, etc. I seek to avoid chemical preservatives, and artificial ingredients in my horse's feed whenever possible. 

Excerpt from the study I found online (sorry - I'm very dorky and really BIG on googling the ingredients I put in my horse's body) 


*********
Why is it added to pet food?

Menadione is added as an inexpensive vitamin K supplement in commercial foods. The common statement as to why it is added is "to help with blood clotting", yet it is scientifically proven that the effectivity of menadione on blood clotting is inferior. Even veterinarians will administer vitamin K1 as an antidote to dogs who have for example ingested rat poison, which causes internal bleeding.

Manufacturers who use menadione in their products also like to claim that it is "more stable" than natural vitamin K and has "more nutritional value". Not a single one of them has acknowledged the scientifically proven side effects of this substance.

It is simple to come to a conclusion about the truth in these statements when you consider that not all pet food companies add menadione to their foods and dogs have eaten these products for years without developing deficiencies
the National Research Council was not able to demonstrate a dietary requirement for vitamin K in dogs during tests when natural ingredients were fed and
fish meals, liver and green plant supplements (e.g. alfalfa, kelp and other seaweed, nettle leaf, blue-green algae, spirulina) are rich sources of natural vitamin K.

As a non-native speaker (German is my native language), it has been difficult for me to compose this article in English, since I had to translate most of my information from literature originally written in German. My search for relevant, unbiased sources in English was not very successful, with exception of some obscure references and texts that provided some information but do not include all the facts. There were also many articles written by authors who didn't even have the basic knowledge to differentiate between vtiamin K1, K2 and K3.

Here is a list of negative effects of menadione on the body. It is incomplete, since my English medical terminology is lacking and I was simply not able to translate the more complicated scientific phrases into proper English:

causes cytotoxicity in liver cells
causes formation of radicals from enzymes of leucocytes, with the consequence of cytotoxic reactions
considerably weakens the immune system
possible mutagenic effects
damages the natural vitamin K cycle
has no effect on coumarin derivatives, which are often present in commercial food due to mold contamination (toxic when ingested)
causes hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia, not just linked to large doses
disturbs the level of calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body, which is an important factor fibrinolysis
is directly toxic in high doses (vomiting, albuminuria), unlike natural vitamin K
builds up in tissue and has been detected in eggs, meat and milk of animals supplemented with menadione derivatives
causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes
causes allergic reactions and eczema
*****

I am aware that I am a little bit radical, I used to use SmartPak and other conventional supplements but since I've stopped my horse's condition has really skyrocketed, so I just wanted to share that information. 

Triple Crown is not as bad as Pennfields, which - while spouting terms like "bio-available" and "high quality ingredients" uses the preservative Ethoxyquin which will really gross you out if you google it - the FDA actually limited it's use in pet foods. I don't know about you but I don't want my horse to eat anything the FDA has to 'Limit"!


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

TGIG-

I just was wondering about your post. You say that since you have taken your horse off of the Smartpak, that their condition has skyrocketed...

Why do you think this is? Because you were using a specific supplement from them? Smartpak uses many brands, not only their own. 

I am just trying to nail down why you are against Smartpak.

Very informative post though!


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

DubyaS6 said:


> TGIG-
> 
> I just was wondering about your post. You say that since you have taken your horse off of the Smartpak, that their condition has skyrocketed...
> 
> ...




You know what, I'm not against SmartPak - in fact, I think their SmartFLex supplements are as good as Cosequin ASU. They do bring together a ton of options, and offer EXCEPTIONAL customer service. As I'm new here, and this was the first thread I clicked, I got carried away maybe with info that is better in a general forum. 

I'm not against SmartPak, I'm just against chemical additives in feeds, and pro high levels of bio availability (What's the use in putting nutrients in your shavings/in the dirt, right? That's where many end up). SmartPak has some good options -seek them out. Call it the difference between shopping at at Ralphs (even the healthy section!) and going to Whole Foods/Farmer's Markets. Does that make sense? Smartpak offers a lot of great options. My only rule is this: If you can google every ingredient and not find anything scary - and your horse seems to need it - then by all means, feed it.  

I just was stunned when I started googling, what some feed companies (not Smartpak per se but potentially some brands they might sell) try to pass off as "Healthy" foods....Pennfields is one that really gets my goat! They hang their hats on terms people who really appreciate good health and quality feeds should be seeking out (Feed less yet get more nutrition per ounce! High bio availability! -yet they use proteinates, not true chelates in their feeds - in addition to chemical preservatives etc)- but all it takes is ten minutes researching their ingredient list to turn up some pretty startling information. 

SmartPak is a great resource. But nothing is better than an ingredient list and your own computer


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

TGIG-

Thanks for the clarification. I just wasnt sure if there was a specific supplement from them that worried you.

I am one of the many people that order from Smartpak (just started) and definitely dont want to feed anything harmful to my horse!


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

DubyaS6 said:


> TGIG-
> 
> Thanks for the clarification. I just wasnt sure if there was a specific supplement from them that worried you.
> 
> I am one of the many people that order from Smartpak (just started) and definitely dont want to feed anything harmful to my horse!


Sorry I should have been more clear. Nothing wrong with SmartPak per se. I used to feed SmartVites, he looked great, very shiny. But now I feed a vitamin mineral supplement that is Chelated - meaning all the minerals are formulated in a way that enables them to pass really easily through the intestinal wall - so the horse benefits more from them and does not work as hard to process them. Since I did that I have seen his condition really really improve. He went from a shiny bright bay with no dapples to a really deep bay with tons of dapples and a wet, saturated-looking, electric shine. But it wasn't overnight- it happened, with no other changes to his diet over the course of several months. Two years later, he's still changing.

Check to see that whatever vite/mineral supplement you feed, it is Chelated. I have noticed a major difference. Also - can't stress the importance of a great probio enough.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Flax is high in Omega 3s. When I find an Omega 3 supplement that works as well as Flax and is as cheap, I'll switch to it. Until then, I continue to use and recommend ground flax. I have found it works better for weight gain and coat/hoof health than rice bran, BOSS, Cocosoya, or SmartPak's SmartOmega 3, and I have tried all of these. (rice bran and BOSS don't have any Omega 3s, or only trace amounts)

I do prefer Horsetech.com's NutraFlax, but it's so much more expensive than the non-stabilized no-name flax that I get from my feed store. I did have to feed less, but it still works out cheaper per-horse for my generic flax and I use it quickly enough that I do not have to worry about spoiling.

Between Flax and feeding the cheap generic Apple Cider Vinegar (along with a well balanced diet high in Zinc and Copper), my horses have had NO rain rot for the past year + and thrush is not nearly as bad as would be expected with our muddy nasty footing at the last barn I leased. Hooves are looking much better after we moved to a new barn with nicer fields.

My vit/min is a custom blend from Uckele Equine Nutrition. They use chelated minerals, I believe. I don't feed any commercial feeds, only alfalfa pellets, grass hay, and some whole oats for the lazy horses, but not all horse owners can go "all natural" due to product availability or boarding situation, so I recommend quality feeds when I can. Triple Crown is my favorite brand, with Progressive and Buckeye close seconds. I also like ADM Alliance's StaySTRONG Metabolic Mineral pellets. They are a great choice for people who can get ADM products and want to feed a grain-free diet.


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

luvs2ride, I'm 95% with you - which is SO rare between two horse owners! Happy to meet you. Chia is just as high in Omega-3s, for what it's worth. Not sure about the cost differential between that and flax.  I have never purchased it on it's own, I feed a supplement that is Chia based for my Omega 3s, that also has high vitamin E, copper and zinc as well. 

Rice bran is a highly chemicalized crop - so I'm with you there in not being a fan of it. BOSS are too high in Omega 6 - and thus upset the right ratio between Omega 3s and 6s (I actually first read that in a SmartPak ask the Vet column if I recall correctly) which can be inflammatory for horses. So I'm not a fan of those either. 

I'm not familiar with Uckele and whether or not they use chelates in their ingredients. The things to look out for in the ingredients list, are sulfates and oxides, which mean they are inorganic - ie not chelated- and thus harder for the horse to get the maximium out of.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Thanks, I'll check my ingrediant list at the barn tomorrow. They're a great company to work with and affordable, which is rare ;-). I have never heard of feeding horses Chia. What is it and where can I read about it?


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

I too sometimes need to recommend commercial/fortified feeds to people depending on the situation/if they can't feed as I do. My reccomendation in those situations is the Blue Seal fortified feeds, - have you checked them out? You could potentially add those to your list. No Ethoxyquin, and no Menadione. The minerals are inorganic, but overall I like that it's a pretty clean feed and not loaded with molasses. I've heard of horses doing very well on them and the ingredients list in their Carb Guard stack up as well.


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> Thanks, I'll check my ingrediant list at the barn tomorrow. They're a great company to work with and affordable, which is rare ;-). I have never heard of feeding horses Chia. What is it and where can I read about it?



Here's a link - this is one place I have read about it. I've not purchased from this source though, like I said, so I have no idea - but it is a resource for information. 

Equine Chia: Organic, Natural Horse Nutrition -- Home


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## Horsel02 (Jan 6, 2010)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> Between Flax and feeding the cheap generic Apple Cider Vinegar (along with a well balanced diet high in Zinc and Copper), my horses have had NO rain rot for the past year + and thrush is not nearly as bad as would be expected with our muddy nasty footing at the last barn I leased. Hooves are looking much better after we moved to a new barn with nicer fields.


If you do not mind me asking how much apple cider vingar do you feed?


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Horsel02 said:


> If you do not mind me asking how much apple cider vingar do you feed?


I feed 1 cup during fly season (it really does seem to help) and 1/2 cup the rest of the year, mixed in their feed. I just buy the cheap stuff at Wal-Mart.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

TheGrassIsGreener said:


> You know what, I'm not against SmartPak - in fact, I think their SmartFLex supplements are as good as Cosequin ASU.


Their SmartFlex Supplements are better than Cosequin ASU - look at the MSM dosage. Horses need at least 10,000mg of MSM, where the SmartFlex sups offer 10,000mg of MSM, Cosequin ASU only offers 5,000mg.

My fellow is on SmartFlex Senior - you find me a product that is equivilant to the dosages of ingredients, NASC approved at the same cost, or cheaper.

Also, not a lot of horses will eat powder, like my fellow. I have to get pellets. 

Cosequin ASU also, is not NASC approved.


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> Their SmartFlex Supplements are better than Cosequin ASU - look at the MSM dosage. Horses need at least 10,000mg of MSM, where the SmartFlex sups offer 10,000mg of MSM, Cosequin ASU only offers 5,000mg.
> 
> My fellow is on SmartFlex Senior - you find me a product that is equivilant to the dosages of ingredients, NASC approved at the same cost, or cheaper.
> 
> ...



However Cosequin ASU does have veterinary clinical trials behind it. Which is a little more impressive to me than an NASC seal - which is carried by some brands I don't always respect - and not carried by some brands I do. 

And amounts of an ingredient are only part of the story - the quality of those ingredients is just as, if not more important. 

I was speaking in favor of SmartFlex however - I went off Cosequin ASU and onto SmartFlex Repair and my horse went every bit as well as before, though I ultimately moved onto a brand that I prefer to both.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

NASC is there to ensure that the ingredients are what the company states the ingredients are. To ensure that the dosages are exactly what the lable states. Without NASC, you do not know what you are feeding your horse.

If you want the real thing - get Adequan, or other IM's that are the sure thing.

Oral Joint Suppliments fall under the Equine Nutrition category, where the rules, regulations and testings are not that strict. So yes, companies can say that "this and this" is in that product, and "this much of this ingredient" is in the product - when in reality, that may not be the truth. 

That is where NASC comes in - to say "lets test this product to make sure the company is telling the truth". I will not purchase an Oral Joint Supplement, without the NASC stamp of approval. 

Adequan, Legend, Polyglycam etc, etc - fall under the Equine Medical Category, where the rules are strict, closely followed, investigated and tested to make sure that the products are exactly as the company claims that they are.


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> NASC is there to ensure that the ingredients are what the company states the ingredients are. To ensure that the dosages are exactly what the lable states. Without NASC, you do not know what you are feeding your horse.
> 
> If you want the real thing - get Adequan, or other IM's that are the sure thing.
> 
> ...


I see your point in trying to protect yourself. And for most supplements on the shelf I totally agree - too many companies alter formulations based on the current market price of various ingredients, and shift their ratios to keep the profits as high as possible. That's unethical and I steer away from any company that could possibly employ practices such as those. Feed, supps whatever.

But unless I am mistaken - the companies have to pay to be tested and get that NASC seal. So not having the seal does not necessarily mean a company is not ethical/doesn't include great ingredients in their products - it just means they didn't pay to get that seal.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

In my opinion, a company who does not invest in having their products tested and get that stamp of approval through NASC, are fishy.

*~~~~~~*

*Manufacturing Standards Matter*

Not all nutritional joint products are created equal. The grade of the raw ingredients, the potency and formula combination are just a few of the important facts that will determine the product's effectiveness. Also, the label claim for the ingredients in any supplement should be accurate and precise. *Good quality manufacturers regularly test their products to validate that the levels of ingredients listed on the label are actually contained in the product at the same levels. Quality testing to assure ingredient purity and integrity is an essential component for offering superior, highly absorbable and well-utilized nutritional products for joint support. *


*The NASC, a Regulatory Body for Animal Nutraceuticals*

It is strongly recommended that any joint supplement being purchased is stamped with the *National Animal Supplement Council (NASC) Seal of Approval*. The *NASC*'s overriding goal is to protect and enhance the integrity of the animal health product industry. The cornerstone of *NASC*'s mission is to work cooperatively with state, federal and international government officials to create a legislative and regulatory environment that provides a framework that is fair, reasonable, responsible and nationally consistent. 

The *NASC Seal of Approval* ensures that ethical manufacturing and labeling practices are complied with throughout the industry in an atmosphere of safety, accuracy and quality. All *NASC* members must undergo and pass a required, rigorous independent audit of its facilities. Upon completion of this audit, members are qualified to display the *NASC Seal of Quality* to show consumers they are committed to the "highest current standards of quality in the industry today." 


The *NASC *advocates and collectively enforces *Good Manufacturing Practice Quality Standards* in manufacturing, labeling and marketing animal health supplements. In addition, *NASC *members establish funding and facilitation of significant research for animal nutritional products and actively participate in programs of continual vigilance to ensure the quality of ingredients in these products.


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## TheGrassIsGreener (Mar 3, 2011)

The company I trust for my supplements is a smaller one, family owned, founded and based on a strong ethical commitment to health and wellness - they do regularly test their own products, and use the highest quality human grade ingredients in their supplements, without compromise. Their mills are open for touring, the lab that creates their vitamins and minerals has been around since 1956 and is certified organic, and certified kosher. They have not paid to get the NASC seal - however my horse's condition speaks for itself. He's never looked or moved better. 

Like I said, I totally respect that you use this system. I'm not saying this method is not an effective way to protect yourself. It's just not the only way! 

Thank you for the extra information.


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> Wow, I took the questionaire....and apparently for three horses it'll be costing me $240 a month :shock:


haha - i haven't gotten any further in the thread but that is exactly why i don't use smart paks. for me it's not economical enough honestly. it's much easier for me to buy the buckets of supplements i want my horse on and to put them in little cups labeled AM and PM and spend 5 minutes a week filling them for the coming week. 

i do however understand how the smart paks would make life at a boarding facility much easier and how the barn staff would appreciate the ease of them (if they have a lot of horses getting multiple things).


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

wow - i'm glad i took the time to read through this entire thread. there's some really good material here that i intend to look further into. thanks ladies for all the time you put in to you your responses!


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