# Dun Genetics Anomolies



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Has she been tested for the dun gene?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Chiilaa - She has two threads on this. In the other thread she posted - 



cummingssamantha said:


> She has been tested for dun, red/black and agouti. Also tested her for cream initially since the original owner said dam was a bucksin. Silver also tested for since no one really knows how it react with dun. In that order, her tests are as follows:
> 
> Ee/Aa/Dd/nn (cream) / nn (silver)
> 
> Also has a tri color tail (not stained believe me lol) and chocolate forlock. Neither are result of sun bleaching as they have been this way since birth.


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## Ponies (Aug 18, 2012)

Would wild bay lighten it?


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Like I said in the other thread, I think that her white covers a majority of the areas you would see dun factor. Legs, face, wither are all white so you can't see any dun factor.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Like I said in the other thread, I think that her white covers a majority of the areas you would see dun factor. Legs, face, wither are all white so you can't see any dun factor.


You can see almost all the way down the spine. There should be a dorsal stripe there.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

To me that stripe down her spine looks too wide and looks more to be sooty than anything else. I would take a guess that maybe she's red dun, but her body colour to me is too dark for it


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

I retract my last statement about the dorsal stripe. It looks like this horse might have fishbones on it.. I also noticed that just in google photos itself, some duns, where they have a dorsal stripe, it is also very faded in colour


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Chiila, I know, that's got me thrown for a loop. Could it just be a very wide and faint dorsal? I've known some duns that didn't have the most striking dorsals. My boy has a break in his and it splits into two at one point.

I don't know though to be honest, I'm not a genetic maven and every other spot on this horse that you would see dun factor is white. Her body color is darker than I would expect too. Would sooty be possible? Or brown dun? 

Seriously, it is extremely difficult to type horse related terms on my phone it wants to correct everything to something that doesn't make sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The horse has been tested dun. So I think it is just one of those rare ones that don't show dun factor as per normal. I have seen another tested dun that has a seasonal dorsal, and one tested dun that has no dorsal at all so far.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

That's what I was thinking, but again, I'm not a color genius by any means. That's interesting that there are other duns out there with abnormal dorsals. Considering that's supposed to be the defining factor of dun according to most people. I had a woman try to tell me my boy wasn't a dun because his dorsal wasn't complete. In her mind it didn't matter that he had every other dun factor marking.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I think this mare has a faint barbed dorsal that's why it looks messy and wide. Jackpots dorsal gets really light and gets kinda blends into his coat the closer you get towards his withers. Often it fades so much it kinda disappears from the middle of his back to his withers.




_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I have a question on the history of dun. How long has it been recognized as a discrete color modifier? For instance, back in 1955 were bay horses with a line called "dun"? or is that a fairly recent thing? I'm wondering because I have a mare with the dun factors, she's registered dun and when I look at both sides of her pedigree, I see 1 line with dun mentioned which would make her heterozygous. BUT...where the doubt creeps in, there is a horse in that line registered as grullo but she has a sorrel and a dun listed as her parents. My understanding of grullo is that it's a dilute, so should have a creme gene? So, if that's true, then it's making me question the whole line for accuracy of colors.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Grullo is black with a dun gene. From my understanding anyways.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Ok, so doesn't require creme then? Grullo is probably my least favorite color, so I haven't paid a lot of attention to the "recipe".


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Not the way I understand it. Cream on a black base produces smokey black (I believe). 

Here is what I have gathered regarding cream and dun on various base coats: 

Cream on sorrel/chestnut = palomino 
Cream on bay = buckskin
Cream on brown = brownskin
Cream on black = smokey black


Dun on sorrel/chestnut = red dun
Dun on bay = bay dun
Dun on brown = brown dun
Dun on black = grullo


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

There are multiple dilution modifiers. Cream, dun, silver, champagne, and pearl. A horse can have one or multiple dilutions. Grullo is just dun on a black base .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Ok, so looks like everything is correct on the pedigree. I'm getting ready to do some color testing on her, so I'm thinking I'll test for the dun gene to see if she's for sure heterozygous, and testing agouti & red/black to see if she's homozygous or heterozygous for that.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Weird. I had a "red dun" tobiano gelding who really didn't show ANY dun markings as well. Then again, that's just going by what his papers said, and he did have the parents to get that color, but we never color tested him.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

MangoRoX87 said:


> Weird. I had a "red dun" tobiano gelding who really didn't show ANY dun markings as well. Then again, that's just going by what his papers said, and he did have the parents to get that color, but we never color tested him.


There are horses mistakenly listed as duns once in a while because foals generally have camouflage that are basically faux dun markings that will shed with their foal coat. Some people assume their horse is a dun because it had a dorsal stripe as a foal. Just a possibility that happens.


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