# Stud Chains



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

My new filly needs to have a stud chain on when being led. And Im just asking, how do you atach it? I've seen it being attached at the top buckle and then brought over the nose, and I've seen it on the buckle closest to the mouth then brought over the nose, over the gums, under the jaw, and I'm confused! :x LOL please help!


----------



## Maleficent (Jun 25, 2007)

It's a personal preference.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

huh?


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

I would not use a stud chain, I have seen lots of horses becomes head shy. I don't even use a stud chain on a stud, I just use a ropehalter.


----------



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I do not use a stud chain on my stud except in halter class - I use a rope halter - they are very effective. Have you tried rope halters? 

What makes you say that you need a chain on her (did someone tell you this, or is she really pushy with you?). Usually some additional groundwork activities will really fine tune respect and responsiveness from the ground and remove the need for harsh tools. There are some great videos and books out there that can help you with the ground work. You could also look into trainers in your area to get a quick lesson or two (that is all it would take, and a few minutes a day for a while). 

I agree that chains can create headshy horses. How old is your filly?

To answer your question, basically all of the ways you described (and more) can be used with a stud chain - it depends on your preference and what you are trying to accomplish, as well as what seems to work best with the horse. In halter, my chain goes in one side ring, over the nose, through the other side ring, and hooks to the higher ring on that side. It is different for mares and geldings though.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

My filly is 3 and I belive that young horses need a chain. Yes I do use rope halters but only for ground work.


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

Can I ask why you believe that young horses "need" a chain? You ask how to use one but you say she needs one why? If you can't use a rope halter to fix whatever you are trying to do then change the why you train don't go harsher, that would make it worst. I use nothing but rope halters all the time, never know when you might need to do some ground work.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I choose to use a chain becuase younger horses (espeacially my filly) get hyper in new places around new horses. And I need to be in control of her when I bring her to the boarding facility.


----------



## desperate horsewife (Jun 21, 2007)

A rope halter is all you need. They put the pressure on the nose in a similar manner as you're expecting the chain to do. Flat halters give no pressure.

I've started all my wild horses with rope halters. If I can start a young wild one with a rope halter and teach respect, you ought to be able to do it with a domestic.


----------



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Have you tried leading her with a rope halter rather than a chain yet? What does she do? 

If you use a rope halter in your ground work, shouldn't these skills carry over to when you are leading her? Parelli, and other trainers have some great activities that you can practice in your ground work, and add to your "bag of tricks", so that you have ways to handle your horse, when she gets excited when being led in public. Rope halters are cool too because they can double as "natural hackamores" 









This is the halter that I use for leading at home and in public places for my boy. He is four in this picture. Just one of your options... 

If you train your young horse properly in a chain, I know that it can be done effectively so that the chain can later be removed when the horse has the leading skills (I know this has been done with some halter horses). 

Choose what works for you, but know there are other options out there


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

All horses will get hyper in a new place, you have to train them not to be, they don't learn that on there own. If you need a chain to control her then she needs a lot more ground work. Just keep in mind that it is called a "stud" chain.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

yes but not all studs need it what people don't understand is mares are more hyper than stallions. remember the old saying:

"You TELL a gelding,
You talk it over with a stallion,
And you ASK a mare!"


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't think (know) you don't need it, if your filly gets hyper then just fix it a chain is not the fix, you don't want to have to use it every time you bring your harse somewhere. I don't even have a chain I don't like them, I have used them and hate them they are way harsh, a rope halter will work better when tied right. A rope halter also goes across there pole.


----------



## firelight27 (Jul 20, 2007)

I agree with Flying B. You never absolutely need a chain, not even with stallions. Its true that a chain can be used responsibly, but by no means is it necessary if a person takes the time to ensure that the horse is respectful and trained on the ground to begin with. It doesn't matter how hyper the horse is. Take it in an enclosed area and work it on the ground. Teach it manners and train it to respect you. All it takes is effort on your part. If the horse trusts and respects you and you've spent sufficient time correctly working with it, then you will have control of the horse.

I think that maybe you need to work on your own confidence more. I'm sure you're very capable of working with your young horses so that you won't need a chain. I'm sure you also use them responsibly, but the fact that you think you NEED them points at your fear of being out of control. Believe in yourself! Plus, if you lost your temper or got frightened and started jerking, its easy to upset the horse and deliver unecessarily harsh punishment. You may very well do it without intending, and the horse can quickly get head shy, or become unruly and dangerous because its upset with being unfairly handled. I think you are more likely to end up with an "out of control" horse by relying on chains and not ensuring that you can control your horse with the least force/contraptions possible, which I believe is the true mark of skill, harmony, respect and control in a relationship with your horse. Have faith in your abilities. I'm fully willing to believe you have what it takes if you just give it a try.


----------



## Maleficent (Jun 25, 2007)

We tried using a chain on my old mare Mattie when she was young and unruly. I had very poor results. The only thing it did was make her angry and headshy. It is true that you ask a mare, so trying to force her with a chain wouldn't do any good.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I'm not going to jerk her around. I'm not saying she's out of control, I'm just saying The chain is "there" You do NOT "use" a chain it's just there so when the horse gets ahead of you it's puts some pressure. Problem that come with the chain are becuase people put the pressure.


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

If your horse is passing you the chain will not fix it, just use a rope halter and when she goes ahead of you back her up that will fix it. Trust me when I say you don't need a chain, I have had the wildest horses on a rope halter. I have had 3 and 4 year olds that have never been handled but to give it's shots and at new farms. You just have to know how to fix it. If you horse is dead to a snaffle do you go to a curb? I hope not because then it will just become dead to that and then port and then what? If you go to the harshest right away then you have nothing else to go to. 
I think you are the one that needs a little training.


----------



## Tessa Bear (May 15, 2007)

yeah you don't need one on young horses, i think it is an easy way out for the owner. its easier to just slap on a stud chain, and not take the extra time and effort it takes to gain respect.

when i bought my stud colt, the first thing i did was take the stud chain off. he reared and tried to run over me but w/ a little clinton anderson lunging for respect level 1 and 2 he was perfect. 

like i said sure you can use one, but you are being lazy, and like most quick fixes you have reprocusions in the end. like a head shy horse, brusies nice, and some times irreseravble damage done to the senistive cartalidge in the nose.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Well I will need one when going through new places and I'm going to get one for her.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Becuase my mother said that she is still very young(3) and she could start somthing. And I agree.


----------



## firelight27 (Jul 20, 2007)

You're very stubborn on your view. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But you are very alone in your views when it comes to the horse world. Relying on force is an old school of thought. The horse world today has evolved and become more realistic and seeks to communicate with the horse and create a happy partnership, not control the horse like an object. Your line of thought seems fearful and tunnel visioned.


----------



## Tessa Bear (May 15, 2007)

i very much agree w/ firelight.


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

firelight is right, 3 young? I NEVER use a stud chain on a horse of any age 1 week to 30 years, I could ride my 3 year old in town. I start young horses all the time from great ones to ones that have never been handled and never use a stud chain. I think you are very fearful of the horse and YOU need some training on ground work . Or need to get a older horse, and not make such a young horse dead to things because you skip the right steps you need to take.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

The farrier used stud chain on my 3 year old (she has lots of attitude). She just run mad. No need to say I won't use this farrier anymore. 

I got mine when she was 18 months old. She was the most hyper horse among 80 horses at the farm (not a joke) plus almost no handling (never was brushed/cleaned/only limited leads). Never used chain on her and started using rope halter only month after I got her (started ground training). Before that just wide nylon halter was enough. 

Harsh methods are not good (however I do loose patience sometime  )


----------



## firelight27 (Jul 20, 2007)

Not to change the subject, but I had to comment on your farrier issue. I don't know about other areas, but in my area (southern oregon) its so hard to find a good farrier that sticks around or doesn't get so booked its hard to get him out to your place! 

Our neighbor was a farrier. He was an older guy and relied on the "violence is everything" old-school train of thought. I had a little 3 yr. old buckskin mare, who was great with her feet. I could pick them up, hold them, clean them, etc. This guy came out and was very rough and she didn't like him. She kept pulling away so he yanked the crap out of her and nearly made her fall down just from yanking. I tried to tell him to stop but he wouldnt listen. After that we had a hard time handling her feet because she had gotten scared. It only took a couple of weeks to re-assure her that it was a one time experience and people handling her feet was ok....We never used that farrier again either! 

(I liked the young farrier we had. He was good, and when he came to trim our horses feet my girl friends made sure to come over and watch the event. -_^ Excuse me while I go drool from reminiscing. Lol. ) He ended up leaving the valley though, it was very sad. Now the farrier we have has a huge handlebar mustache. He's very good though.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

look im not going to be mean to her or force her it's just that i don't have a place to train her with any rope halter yet. I have a rope halter to work with her but I can't work with her until I purchase her. And once I purchase her I'm taking her to the boarding facility. When can I train her? The trailer? I'm just using one to get her there without killing me, then I'll use the rope halter. You know rope halters are more severe than stud chains. Ask the pro's.


----------



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

What pros? I am sorry, but I disgree based on sheer mechanics of the two different tools. I suppose any tool can be made to be harsh depending on how it is used, BUT rope halters are soft, light weight, and somewhat loose when pressure is not being applied. Yes, they are effective at applying pressure to points when needed. Rope knots applying pressure are different than metal chain links. If a human were to loose their temper and jerk a chain hard, it would inflict much more pain and reaction from the horse than if the same was done with a rope halter. 

I also have to disagree with the implication that mares are more "hyper" than stallions. I can promise you that my young stallion becomes very hyper in new places, BUT he listens to what I ask him to do, he is respectful, and he moves his feet where I ask. I believe it is likely that a stallion is more of a POTENTIAL hazzard in public places than a mare. I also feel that a stallion will try to test limits more. I am of course generalizing - you really must consider the individual horse rather than its sex. I have expected my horse to behave in public, and practiced skills to help me do that, and what do you know - I don't need a chain to take him places. 

You are not planning to trailer with a chain on are you? I see accident and tramitized horse written all over that. Otherwise, it might be an appropriate situation to use a chain - if you already have the confidence to use it properly, and not overuse it, which seems unsure. Is is possible to go to the place of purchase an hour early, or even a few times before you move her? You could do some ground work with her ahead of time, and start building a relationship based on respect and trust. I don't think slapping a stud chain on is the best way to start a new relationship if it can be avoided. Having an arena or round pen can be helpful, but not necessary. Any somewhat flat, clear area of ground will do. It sounds like it might be worth your time and money to take a few lessons in this department to give you some cool "tools". Maybe you could even try to set up a lesson with a trainer who will come out with you before you move your new horse. 

Good luck with your new relationship - I'm sure you will make a decision that works well for you and your new friend.


----------



## firelight27 (Jul 20, 2007)

Doesn't your stables have a round pen or arena that you could practice in? And no, rope halters are not more harsh. What "experts" do you speak with? They don't sound very knowledgable (spelling...) How small are you in comparison to the horse? Could it be that you don't have the strenth/stature if she got too excited? If thats the case, maybe you should have someone else lead her into the pen and then work with her there, so if she got loose you wouldn't have to worry. If you are small or not very strong (I myself am a short person, we gotta stick up for each other  ) then perhaps for now the stud chain would be fine if it gives you an extra sense of security when leading her to and from things. But I beg of you to take if off once you get into an enclosed area, and start working with her without the chain so that in the future you won't feel that you need it. Good luck!


----------



## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

This is a rather confusing thread...at first I assumed you already owned the mare. Now it looks like you don't have her yet and are just getting ready purchase and ship her to her new home?


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

omg u guys dont get it. If you leave a rope halter on, it cuts into them with preasure. Also the pros i speak about and judges at APHA & AQHA say that lead shanks when put over the nose (which is what i will do) help a horse that rears, when put over the gums, puts preasure on a point that soothes the horse. And under the jaw looks good in the show ring. I was simply asking how to attach it but seeing as all i had was shame, I just looked it up.

oh and AKPaintLover, I'm not going to trailer Touche' with a stud chain you think im an idiot?
And I've been on more tempermental mares and fillies than colts and stallions.
I learned to ride on a green 2 year old stud colt. He was very gentle and so was the other 3 year old stud colt i rode at a different place.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Well, all I can say is good luck with your chain. I'v never seen people using the chain even on wild mustangs around here, but.... In any case you make a decision. 

Fire, I guess I wasn't lucky enough with farriers. Lol! All good ones have so many customers they don't care about new one. And who doesn't have many customers have reasons for that.  I tried two new farriers and both run my horse mad (one just smacked here badly when she got tired to stand still and move, other used chain and it seems like tool he uses it on horses all the time).


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

I would have killed the furrier.

Horse_luver4e, a 2 year old is not even close to being a stallion or even acting like one. Why would you leave any halter on you horse? That is just lazy, it could get caught on something, I have seen this happen to many times. When you put the chain over the gums it hurts not soothes (why do you think cops do that to people?) you put a chain on your gums and tell how soothing it is. How many horses have you started? That is why I want all my babys wild and un handled so no one will do something wrong and then I have to un train what they did and start over which takes a lot longer and harder. I would hate to see what kind of bit you use.


----------



## Tessa Bear (May 15, 2007)

i was thinking the same thing flying B. wow if she resorts to a stud chain at a whime. wonder what bit she would use? sounds to me like you need more training. and like she said a 2 yr old is no where near acting like a stud! wait till they are 5 or 6 then you will get a wake up call and like paint lover said a lot of horses are scared when taken to a new place but when they are taught to respect you and your space its not a big deal. i think you need pro help for this one (and i don't mean for the horse either)


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

It does not hurt the horse if you don't jerk it. And every tack shop, horse web site, and horse show, has carried or were using lead shanks. I'm going to use them. 

Oh and by the way Flying B, Stop judging me, I use a snaffle bit(D rings, and egg butt) I ride english not western where they have those huge controling bits. So stop thinking that I'm such a terrible person becuase I choose to use a chain. You don't know me or my filly. I don't abuse horses, and all kinds of people use lead shanks all kinds of ways. I'm sorry but you guys are just rude.

And thankyou Kitten_Val for respecting my opinion.


----------



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Horse_Lover4e, I am glad to hear that you  would never trailer with a chain on. When it became clear that you intended to use a chain to transport your horse from point A to point B, I had to ask. I have sadly heard of people doing much more ridiculous things to the detriment of horse and human - things that I never would have thought someone would do. 

Okay, I am not saying you would do this, but from your reasoning about why a rope halter is harsher than a chain - leaving a chain on a horse for extended periods of time is less harsh than leaving a rope halter on? Leaving any type of halter on for extended periods is unsafe, and is going to leave some kind of impression on the horse. Also, rope halters are fairly loose (even when tightened properly) and very light weight - I have a hard time imagining them "cutting" into a horse when simply sitting on the horse. I would say that the rigitity and weight of a chain would be much more capable of cutting in. 

I also have a hard time seeing the effectiveness of learning to ride on a 2 year old horse who is learning itself - stud colt or not. 

anyway, I am not saying you are an idiot, I just don't understand your reasoning.

Also, english bits can be made just as harsh as westerns. And, just because something is for sale everywhere doesn't require its use. Many bits (english and western) are made and sold readily that have no reason to be in a horse's mouth.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I trailer a horse with leather halters so they break free in case of an accident.
And I use a snaffle.
There have been several cases of horses having the rope halter cut into them, as hard as that sounds it's true. Now you might say that it's becuase they didn't use it proporly, EXACTLY! That is what I'm getting at, anything you use improperly can be dangerous. But when used properly with a soft hand are NOT dangerous, same with a rope halter, same with a stud chain.


----------



## firelight27 (Jul 20, 2007)

Wait wait,hold the presses...so you think a rope halter will cut the horse, and western bits are too huge and controlling, but you think relying on stud chains is mild? Wow...what a weird train of reasoning. It all depends on the user. Go ahead and use stud chains, its not a big deal, if you use it right. Which I'm sure you will. The point is that we are trying to say this: Relying on something that is supposed to be used on unruly horses, means you'll never get them fully trained. And we all hope you wean your horse of "needing" it, as you say. We aren't saying stud chains are evil and to never use them. They are more like a crutch, like holding on to the horn of a western saddle when first learning to ride or something....

I personally use a chain in showmanship, but only because of the look. Its appropriate to have a chain on a show halter in showmanship/halter classes because that is the proper way to fit your horse for those particular events. But by no means is the chain ever a control method for me. When I'm not showing showmanship I always use a thick rope halter. The chain in shows is just for looks, when I do use it.

But to say that rope halters cut horses, and western bits are harmful....well then it must be one very thin, or old and poorly made rope halter. And western bits aren't too big and controling. The physics are simply different, so people can ride in different styles. No one here plans on abusing their horses. Just because we may use western bits doesn't mean that we are harsh. Thats a ridiculous assumption.

To answer your initial question about putting on a chain, over the nose, or under the chin are both correct ways.

Over the nose:
Pass the chain through the hole on the noseband closest to you, inserting it from the underneath(you should be leading from the left side). Run the chain next to the noseband, and then through the opposite hole, inserting it from the bottom (of the hole). Run it on top of the side of the halter and hook it to the ring at the top.

Thats how I prefer to do it. The other way can get confusing...Not that this description wasn't confusing when I read it back. Lol.


----------



## desperate horsewife (Jun 21, 2007)

Oh, I honestly don't know why this thread continues to drag on. She obviously doesn't want anyone's opinion or advice. She's going to do it her way (or her mother's way) no matter how insane the rest of us see it. She doesn't get it. Plus, she's a kid, and being such she's only going to dig her heels in further. No point in adults arguing with a child, is there?


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

Just because a tack shop sells them it makes it right? They will sell anytihng so they can make money. I don't need to know your filly I train horses and the badest ones you can find don't need a chain. If a rope halter is tied right then it can not cut there skin, I do not want my halter to break when they are tied to something then they are out and could get hurt with a rope halter thet learn not to try to get out because it woun't break so they stop pulling. Do want you want people like you is why I get paid to fix horses. I do use a chain in showmanship but just fold it over and do not use it.


----------



## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Good point Desperate Horsewife 

We do seem to be going in circles.

I don't think anyone is trying to be rude or to "bully", but when many are discussing one method that one is opposed to, it is probably a bit overwhelming.

To each his own I suppose


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Ok for one thing I'm not a child and another I didn't say using a western bit was harmful. Somone else did. I just said they were controling and effective. And I am not trying to be mean all i wanted to know was ways to put it on. Ive heard of rope halters cutting into horses before on different forums. maybe they were poorly done? I don't know but all I'm saying is Saying stud chains are bad is like me saying rope halters are bad (which i'm not so don't eat me!) There just opinions.
Oh and Desperate Horsewife(cool name!) Can't someone tell there mother about buying a horse? It doesn't make me a child. She has experience with horses and she was giving me advise.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

oh and about the 2year old stud colt. It was suppose to teach me patience. Riding on a horse that didn't listen to me taught me patience and I could work with him and I taught him leg yeilding and side pass. It was neat but any way I rode him till he was about 7 1/2 and then my instructor put him up for sale sad yeah i know.


----------



## desperate horsewife (Jun 21, 2007)

I apologize, horseluvr, if you felt offended. Your response to the many seasoned replies, stating that your mother said to do it with a stud chain, made you sound like a child. 

There are many ways to put a chain on. If you're only wanting to take the horse from the barn to the trailer, it's beyond me why you need one. That must be one very rank, ill behaved horse. But, to each his own. Put it over the horse's nose and run it up the cheek on the other side. Then take it off as soon as she's loaded. 

Thank you for the compliment on my username.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Flying B said:


> I would have killed the furrier.


He-he. I can understand why they were not happy though. But it's not an excuse. However in the end it was shame on them as they couldn't even get close to her anymore in presence of lots of people.  The young farrier (the one who smacked her) ended up screaming at me that I don't teach my horse to stand. I told him I can clean her feet with no halter on her, and he didn't believe.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

Thank you Desperate Horsewife for respecting my decision about using a stud chain.


----------



## desperate horsewife (Jun 21, 2007)

Oh, I don't respect it. But it _is_ your decision. I think it very unwise, but it's your horse and your choice. You've had an abundance of good advice here, IMO, but have chosen not to listen. I just see no point in continuing to debate something that you've already made up your mind to do. Hence, that is how you use a chain. Best of luck.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

That is what respecting is. It means you don't agree with it but you know it's my decision. And I thank everyone for the advise but if you look at the first post that I put I wasn't asking for it, just how to put a chain on. So I don't know why everyone is so mad that I didn't take the advise when I didn't want it.

Ok I think we shouldn't be debating anymore lol to many pages!


----------



## Maleficent (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm not sure I'd buy her if I thought I needed a chain to control her.


----------



## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

abby is 3 and has traveled all over, she leads, trailers, and shows with out a stud chain. might it be the lack of confendance on your part that you "FEEL " the need to use one?, young horses DO NOT THEM AT ALL, ask your trainer (if you have one) to help you with leading...i've seen to many young horses go sour because of non confendent owners.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I have confidence okay? We have allready beed through this, I am going to use a lead shank regardless. I'm not going to hurt her, and I have confidence, but I'm using one anyway.


----------



## Tessa Bear (May 15, 2007)

clearly you don't if you are refusing to take our advise and conitnueing to use one.


----------



## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

I deal with people like this all the time, they think they know everything and there always right. She may have lots of confidence, but not know what she thinks she knows or doing.


----------



## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I know what I'm doing okay. And by the way read my first post I didn't ask for your advise! I asked how the right way to put on one. And now I know. I'm using a lead shank and anyway, what do you care? It's not your horse. Maybe my horse has anxiety issues, and rears but it's not your problem.


----------



## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

we don't have to read your first post again.....take all the advice you got on here and be kind about it.....which your not.....there are people on here who have been there done that or seen it and you don't seem to want to take any one advice so leave it at that...i think this should be locked


----------



## meggymoo (Mar 10, 2007)

I agree, I've stood back on this one, but its just going round in circles.  

I've locked this post now.


----------

