# Rounded back, self carriage, and balance



## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

One of the best explanations I have watched to date. They explain "how not" and "why not", as well as "how" and "why".


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Wow. That is an amazingly clear, informative video!!

Thanks for sharing it, @mmshiro!!


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

Really good video, I will have to subscribe to that. I was trying to explain why moving over the back was important to a trail horse to her owner, and this is an awesome video for explanantion


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Subbing


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Hate you. I was about to go bed look what you've done!!! jk <3 What a cool vid  You know from my posts I said I have a rubbish eye but it is really hard to understand when people trying explain something. This is reallllyyy good visual for the intellectually challenged like myself >.> Neat find!


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

They also have some videos on spotting subtle lameness. Those are also some great videos.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Excellent video
With so many horses and ponies around with clear signs of 'hunter's bump' and it seems to be an increasing problem, its obvious that not enough attention is being given to working horses correctly so they establish good self carriage from the get go. Same goes for leg and hoof problems that will inevitably shorten a horses riding life and potentially its actual life


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Kalraii said:


> Hate you. I was about to go bed look what you've done!!! jk <3 What a cool vid  You know from my posts I said I have a rubbish eye but it is really hard to understand when people trying explain something. This is reallllyyy good visual for the intellectually challenged like myself >.> Neat find!


I fell down the rabbit hole too. Thankfully not before I intended to go to sleep. 

This was a really neat video and also led me to others. Thanks for the post.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

Overall I think the video is good but what they show as "correct" is not very good. The horse is never really working over the back, consistent or accepting contact. Whenever the rein shortens the horse tenses because it is not being ridden correctly over the back. It's a slack, inconsistent contact with a horse who doesn't develop correct musculature. I think the explanation in the beginning is very good though but for a correct outline I want to see the horse actually take the contact, at no point do any of the horse's in the video actually take or accept contact correctly or work over their topline with hocks flexed or weight taken from behind with a round back. For me I like seeing the change in the horse's posture and musculature. A correctly developing horse develops a softer under neck with a triangle starting from the base of the wither up with no strange bumps or indents. And behind a lot of the time as the horse collects more and more they actually get narrower through the wither but much stronger behind the saddle and over the croup. In the beginning however they should widen at the wither but when a higher degree of collection is introduced most of the time they start narrowing in the wither and getting fuller behind. Another thing is that very collected horses coming from behind do not track up. I have never seen a horse track up in a correct-true collected trot but the diagnol pairs stay true and you don't lose swing or mobility of the hind end and you see the increased articulation of the hocks. I see the horse's in the video being ridden as a problem because the core is never particularly engaged which improves posture and helps to support the back structure, as well the front legs are still loaded and the horse is not in balance which is the point of the video about a horse being in balance so as to relief the legs and help take pressure off the skeleton and ligaments by improving correct muscular support of those structures. 

Another big factor is how heavily a rider lands in the saddle and how they sit in the walk, for instance in the walk the riders tended to grind into the back which tends to make an irregular walk rhythm (as shown in video) or in trot when the rider lands heavy in the saddle as those riders did it will hollow out the back. Especially on something sensitive. I've ridden quite a few horse where if you land that heavily in the saddle or carry that inconsistent of a contact will blow a fuse from being highly sensitive and insecure and need confidence from the rider, so they know theyre okay. The rider's body is important too, a rider that carries too much tension in the pelvis will make them sore and have muscular issues. My mare was with a trainer that somehow had a lot of back soreness and hind end problems, I never had with her nor my trainer at home. She then tried to claim I sent her a horse with problems she had to fix but it was her who created the problem. The horse is with a better trainer now and doesn't have any problems at all. The soreness came from a rider being too tight and trying to micromanage a horse who had enough.

But I will say I have seen where crookedness can makes horses quite lame, I had a few I rehabbed who when I rode them they were sound and they would move more "evenly" on all 4 legs but if they were crooked, the mechanical lameness became very obvious. But ridden up and over the back they looked much more normal. Had another horse who wasn't treated for EPM until it was pretty advanced and when he first came he drug his hind legs quite badly and was quite straight. His trot was very awkward but after a year of dressage work he looked like a normal horse and you couldn't tell he was the same horse from a year prior. I think the mind-body connection and strength really helped him. Yoga for horses.






This horse is actually over his back, a hair behind but a great deal more balanced, actually over the back, accepting contact and coming from back to front. VERY VERY hot stallion, unfortunately has passed now :-(


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Excellent video that explains very clearly why we ride so many circles when we first start training the green horse. Makes a lot of the exercises we do have some meaning instead of just being something we do because the instructor says so.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I agree that generally it's good video, but I'm unsure on their stance regarding positioning. They show a horse who's head is lifted mechanically hollow the back and a horse who is simulating a LDR position with a hollow back. Then show a LDO position as the correct position. Is their intention to mean that LDO is the only correct way to position a horse? There are schools of thought that follow that (Art of the Horse or something like that?). Or was it simply because they didn't have a horse who could simulate that change in hand (I would think they could find a video in that case)?


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

@DanteDressageNerd I appreciate your input a LOT but not gonna lie - if you just came at me with that I would be staring at you blankly. HOWEVER, knowing more to what you refer, thanks to the first vid (even if not accepted as perfect), it is much easier second time round to get it. I think it definitely rounds things over nicely (teehee)  I have no formal training background and at your regular riding school they don't have the motivation to teach the casual rider any of this stuff, sadly! :,< Then you get your own horse and suddenly a new world opens...

edit: and I really do learn a ton of stuff on here. I'd had to have paid out of where the sun don't shine otherwise! Then I ride with this newfound knowledge but my puff pastry turns into a pancake :<


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

I don't think this video, and the entire series on that channel, is supposed to be a compendium. They take something that's a frequent cause of problems for horses and show an easy way to do better. In terms of driving a car, they don't show how to win a race, but they tell you that if you want to go fast and your want your car to last, you need to take the foot of the brake while driving.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

I understand. I have a hard time breaking things down which the video first half does a very lovely job of explaining. I think something between LDR and LDO is right. LDO tends to make horses on the forehand that don't accept contact and never take weight behind. LDR develops a horse that is very rounded over the back and stepping under with a correct topline but perhaps over compressed in the throatlatch making it hard.

But it is sad good basics and trainer who can teach the basics are well are hard to come by. I know when I started I went from trainer who didn't really know anything to trainer who didnt really know anything for a while and made lots of mistakes and had to figure out who to go to, what to look for, etc. I think it's a normal process but thank God for the horse's who tolerate us through all our mistakes and learning. They are a gift and imo don't receive enough praise or appreciation. 

mmshiro- I very much so like your analogy, it makes a lot of sense.


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