# "Chair seat"



## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

Think about riding more on your pelvis... and maybe try riding without sitrrups?
Im not sure, these are just guesses, lol.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

do you have a photo of yourself in this "chair seat"? Many times a chair seat is a result of a saddle that doesn't fit the horse very well or is placed too far forward. If the saddle is angled too much upward in the pommel, then you are forced to lean forward, i.e. lean up into the hill . If you have your upper body forward but your butt is falling back into the cantle of the saddle, your natural tendency will be to put your lower legs forward to counterbalance the upperbody. One would think that you would put them BACK but it is not so. You will have to struggle to bring them back under you and as soon as you start trotting, you will naturally find them creeping forward, until they are under your upper body. So, look at your saddle. Western? English?
You may need to bring it a bit further back (many dressage riders put theirs too far forward) or, if the horse has a back that causes this angle, then add a small lift under the back of the saddle , like a Cashel wedge. See if that doesn't feel different. If you want a temporary trial, you can arrange some folded towels in layers that gradually taper in thickeness to provide a lift to the back of the saddle without an abrupt edge thatq the horse will feel under the saddle. If that feels better you will know that a wedge is your solution.
Let me know how that works. I am curious. And can you post a photo?
Caroline


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Old picture and not who i ride now, i ride school horses at my college but thats how i typically ride.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Same saddle and such, now that i look at that picture again, how embarrassing


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Delete,

Thank U for the photo. I see tons of Western riders who ride like that. In fact, I see it taught. However, if you look at how master western riders ride, you will not see this position. You will see a more upright, less braced position. 
The bad part of such a chair seat is two fold. One;
your weight goes straight down through your seat bones and ONLY there so is concentrated on the horses back in one spot rather than spread out over your entire pelvis and down through your thighs. Hores will be more likely to hollow out his back to get away from sharp seat bone pressure. Two;
If you brace into the stirrups you are not able to flow as well with the horse's forward energy. You are in fact bracing against him and he has to work just that much more to go forward. You are kind of "holding" him. You can feel your backward pressure against the cantle, no? He feels that as resistance. 
So, in the above photo I see that you might need to lengthen your stirrups. The saddle itself may not have very good balance. The horse is very downhill in build and is carrying its' head WAY below its; shoulder tip. Isn't that a no-no in WP? I ride dressage so am not so familiar with WP. Your avatar photo in HUS looks much better position. 
What kind of Western saddle is that? Can you do some riding just letting you legs hang down out of the stirrups? we used to be told to let our legs hang down, wiggle them a bit to loosen them and then just "lift" the toes from the ankle to pick up the stirrup. If you cannot, then the stirrup is too short and too far in front of where your leg naturally hangs. 
My friend has a Crates saddle and boy does it have nice balance. I can post like a dream in it and my legs hang down in a very natural way.
Does this help?


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Yes i realize that is head is too low, this was about 2 years ago and i was all "the lower the better" when we would do wp. It is a Circle Y barrel racing saddle. An my stirrups have been lengthened about 2 holes. I was told it is better to sit in the middle of your saddle, yet i make a point to shove my butt against the back simply because thats what iv been told to do before. Is it better to sit in the middle of your saddle? and when you say use your pelvis do you mean "roll" with the horses movement?


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Yes, I'd say better to sit in the middle of the saddle. If you sit at the very back, that's asking for a chair seat. The rule of thumb that I've been taught is you want to have about the width of your hand (2-3) inches behind your bum. Many people actually ride in saddles that are too small for them.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I really make a point to shove my heals down, could that also be a factor in my legs being too far forward?


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Eolith said:


> Yes, I'd say better to sit in the middle of the saddle. If you sit at the very back, that's asking for a chair seat. The rule of thumb that I've been taught is you want to have about the width of your hand (2-3) inches behind your bum. Many people actually ride in saddles that are too small for them.


Would you say that saddle is too small for me? I think its either a 15 or 15 1/2


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Yeah... it looks like it might be a bit on the small side. I can't tell you with complete certainty.

What I've learned is that the size of the saddle does not have as much to do with the size of your bum as the length from your hip to your knee... so you're not fat or anything if you need a larger saddle.

Here's a link to a sizing chart by Tucker: Tucker Saddles - Trail saddles and Bridle Supplies.

Take a look at what it suggests for your height/weight and body type


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

It suggests a 15.5 which im almost 100% certain my saddle is just a 15 which works out well considering i have a 15.5 roping saddle at home


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

*sit in the middle of the saddle*

I agree with Eolith. Sitting in the middle of your saddle is desirable and what she said about having a couple of inches of free space behind you correct. You should NOT be shoved against the cantle. Think about it. If you are shoved agains the cantel, you must be pushing against something?> The stirrup, which swings forward which puts you in a chair seat AND puts a feeling of "drag" or resisitance agains the horses movement. 
Experiment with just letting you legs hang down. Dressage masters say your legs should feel like "wet towels, draping on the side of the horse." Western riding bears a lot of similarity to dressage.
Don't press into the stirrups . If you need to, think of dragging the stirrup along the ground rather than having it in front of you like a barrier. Such that if your horse magically disappered out from umder you, you would land in a standing position. As you are, you would land on your but with your feet out in front of you.

As for rolling with the horse, yes, it is kind of like that. Again, ride experiementing. See how little you can make the saddle move seperate from you. If you are not moving naturally with the saddle, then you are always just a fraction of a second behind the saddle which causese it to move back and forth on the horses back. You can feel it. Then you add your self moving back and forth on top of the saddle and theres a lot of movement that is just off from the horse's movement, but dragging a milisecond behind it. If you can actually move with the saddle then it will move with the horse and there is less contrary rocking. It is a constant challenge to stay relaxed enough to move WITH the horse and not block his movemnt. 
Are you able to ride out on varied terrain? Rding up and downhill on trails really helps one to keep their center of graqvity over the horse without becoming rigid in the legs or feet. (stirrup bracing)
I am sorry to go on and on about this. 
How neat that you can ride at college. I envy you. 
For some positive feedback , you sit up nice and tall on your horse and hold your head upright. I think you will find that sweet spot soon.

CC


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Don't worry, I'm working on improving with the same thing. ^_^

I found that it really did help me to ride without my stirrups (easier I think to take them completely off an english saddle) it actually felt much more comfortable for me when I cantered without stirrups... it's amazing how much I was "bracing" without realizing it.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Ok...heres my opinion.

First off...most of the problem is your saddle. A barrel saddle is built for speed, not for position. Get yourself an older Equitation saddle and that will be half the battle. We have a young girl at the barn who had only ever ridden in a barrel saddle and had big issues with the chair seat. She rode in my pleasure saddle and rode completly different. Then in her grandmothers Circle Y equitation seat and was nearly perfect in position. 

Your saddle fits you fine. Especially for a barrel saddle. The trend these days is to have this HUGE piece of leather with lots of room to roam in it. I find that you are better off and often more comfortable in something that actually fits. You are much too tiny to be venturing into the 16" range! 

As far as tips on reversing the chair seat...its not so much just bringing your legs back as it is riding on your thighs and not your booty. Your thigh should have a big bite on a western saddle. Here are a few things that I do to get a better bite with my leg. 

Kick those stirrups (which are way too short in the pic) and do your 10 minute warm up without stirrups. Walk and trot both directions and leg your legs flop. Breathe deep and let your legs really lengthen. When you are finished warming up, your legs will feel longer and if you keep with the same length stirrup you will feel like you have your legs wrapped around your throat! Lower your stirrups to where your foot rests nicely in them and if you stand in them, you should come a few inches off the saddle...maybe 4. 

Good luck with this. Its not always easy!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

well said. I agree that the saddle for the young lady concerned is not too big, but barrel saddles are designed to HOLD the rider ina fixed position. Not good daily riding saddles. Your advice for the warm is just perfect. Much better description than mine and having one's thighs bear some of the weight of the rider is WAY GOOD. it's the "wet towels" feel, that they drape over the horse. This puts the riders weight over a larger area, easier for horse to carry and more secure. Your wording is perfect.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

If I sat in the center of my saddle my thighs would touch the pomel. Perhaps getting a saddle that is half an inch bigger would do some good? Its a roping saddle which I'm not too sure that would be ok for equitation, maybe better then my barrel saddle? Thank you all for the information it helps alot
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

if you sit in the center of the saddle, it is not the exact center. It is the center of the gravity of the saddle, HMMM how does one say it?
You know, where the saddle has it's deepest point? Might not be the actual center front to back. You will really not have to move much, and if your thighs are dropped more downward, they will not be so close to the pommel. However, you may feel better in another saddle. You have your ticket to go saddle shopping. Tell yourself that those ladies on the internet gave me permission to spend the bucks ! I wish I could buy myself a new western saddle. I have a dressage, an endurance (which doesn't fit my horse) and now I want a western saddle. 
Have a great day and a great ride!


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Start by lenghtening your stirrups a lot....then see where your position is. After that, decide whether you want to take another step towards a different saddle or not._


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Whoooo! Yesterdays ride when so much better. My instructors only had one complaint and that was for me to look up. Thank you all for the advice it helped a ton
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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