# Mule for a guard animal?



## Phly

From my experience mules are right there with donks for guardians. But it all comes down to the particular animal. 

I'm a big fan of GOOD mules.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy

I'm curious about what threat coyotes are to adult horses and ponies. I just don't have much experience with coyotes. When I was out west, folks worried about coyotes getting their young animals, but not the adults. Feral dogs, however...

But on the subject, as Phly said, it would depend on the individual animal. Donkeys and some mules tend to be more fight than flight in their instinctive reactions to predators. Some will incorporate their herdmates of other species into that. Others will only protect themselves.


----------



## smrobs

Coyotes generally don't pose much risk to adult animals of standard size (minis are a whole other ball game). Generally speaking, coyotes don't hunt in packs and they scavenge more than they actually hunt. Big cats and stray dogs pose a much bigger threat.

That said, the majority of mules/donkeys make excellent guard animals. I wouldn't go with anything smaller than a standard sized donkey or a quarter horse mule.

Plus side to that, you can also use them as a riding/driving animal in addition to guarding your other stock.


----------



## Phly

We have a lot of coyote around here. Even to the point of finding tracks around and in the pasture. But we've never had a problem with attacks. 

Though my horse tends to be aggressive towards dogs rather then run, and when there's been tracks in the pasture , you can see when they high tailed it outta there.


----------



## LittleBayMare

Phly said:


> From my experience mules are right there with donks for guardians. But it all comes down to the particular animal.
> 
> I'm a big fan of GOOD mules.


Good to hear. I will have to go check them out then. 

In your experience, can guard mules learn to tell the difference between pet dogs (little terriers) and wild dogs?



Cordillera Cowboy said:


> I'm curious about what threat coyotes are to adult horses and ponies. I just don't have much experience with coyotes. When I was out west, folks worried about coyotes getting their young animals, but not the adults. Feral dogs, however...
> 
> But on the subject, as Phly said, it would depend on the individual animal. Donkeys and some mules tend to be more fight than flight in their instinctive reactions to predators. Some will incorporate their herdmates of other species into that. Others will only protect themselves.


A lot of the "coyotes" in my area are actually coydogs (coyote/dog hybrid) and I am mainly concerned about the pony given his inherent lack of self preservation. Last time one of those mongrels came around he wanted to make friends :evil:. Fortunately he was in a pasture with one of the larger geldings who is the self appointed herd leader/protector (and some days I swear part donkey :lol who went all stallion on the mutt and kept it at bay while I was able to get my gun and pop the sucker a lead one between the eyes. 
Unfortunately said gelding is going up for sale as he is too young and talented (and eats too much) to keep as a guard pet, though he has done pretty well so far and he does make a nice early warning system. But he's not that type of riding horse I need, I don't have time to work him, and he really is a donkey at heart. He and I just don't get along.
I have had neighbors who lost horses because the coydogs tore up their legs. All it takes is one wrong bite. As harsh as it may sound, I'd rather that bite go into a cheap trail mule than my expensive barrel mare or driving pony.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy

Ahhh... the coydogs. The worst of both, and the endearing qualities of neither. Based on your explanation, if you have the resources, the free mule is worth a try.


----------



## KigerQueen

You can get a cuple of Burros from the blm for pocket change. They have lived in the wild and know how to protect themselves from such animals.


----------



## smrobs

^^But, adopting requires that you have a certain type of facility and particular fencing.

Plus, if you don't have the experience to train an animal to lead and stand for the farrier, the BLM may not be the way to go.

I know a lot of people out here just turn their guard animals out and never touch them again, but I just can't agree with that. They still need their feet trimmed occasionally and you still need to be able to catch them, lead them, and put them in a trailer if they were to get hurt or sick or something.


----------



## LittleBayMare

smrobs said:


> ^^But, adopting requires that you have a certain type of facility and particular fencing.
> 
> Plus, if you don't have the experience to train an animal to lead and stand for the farrier, the BLM may not be the way to go.
> 
> I know a lot of people out here just turn their guard animals out and never touch them again, but I just can't agree with that. They still need their feet trimmed occasionally and you still need to be able to catch them, lead them, and put them in a trailer if they were to get hurt or sick or something.


Which is exactly why I passed up that option. Our high tensile fences just ain't gonna pass their highness's inspection. Plus the whole I just don't have the experience to train a wild one. Give me an unbroke domestic and I'll be fine but I'm not sure a feral one would be quite the same.
If the ground were rocky enough to trim their feet naturally, I might be able to get away with the whole turn them out and don't touch them again. But our ground is pretty nice and lush so all animals need regular trims, plus the pastures come spring are going to be brand new and on rotation so if they are air ferns they will need grazing muzzles and everyone needs at least minimal halter training. Plus, it's my parent's farm and they have the rule that all animals must earn their keep. They don't charge me board (beyond feed and hay) as long as it has a job. If it's a lawn ornament they expect extra compensation. The only one that can be a pasture puff is the pony because he's done his tours of duty in 4-H so he's earned a life of ease.


----------



## KigerQueen

You could get a BLM burro "second hand". Someone who got one and no longer wants it.


----------



## Saddlebag

Coydogs are an extreme rarity because of the timing of the heat cycles and even coyotes in captivity won't breed with a dog. It has been proven that wild foxes that become domesticated do begin to resemble dogs in temperament. Coyotes that live near man often find that getting food is as easy as if domesticated and that may be why they are seen as hybrids.


----------



## EliRose

Are you sure they are coy_dogs_ and not coy_wolves_? I know Eastern coyotes have a decent amount of wolf blood in the population. Eastern coyotes are quite a bit larger than Western coyotes for that reason. 
Since I've been in MT in my Wildlife Biology program, and seen several live/stuffed specimens, there is a definite difference between the two types. They are also almost certainly more likely to go after adult animals and work in cooperative social groups. And as Saddlebag mentioned, coydogs are quite rare.

So yes, I'd definitely get the mule.

(And because I think it is super interesting, Wikipedia has a pretty nice article on Eastern coyotes Eastern coyote - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)


----------



## Mulefeather

If you plan to use this mule for your aging mother, please make sure you ride and try the mule in a trail situation. Not every mule is for every person simply because they are a mule, and not all mules are slow and gentle. I have known some mules that were lovely (I owned one who I think was a candidate for sainthood), and some that were complete and utter turds. It is entirely down to how they are raised, trained, and treated. 

Also, check the mule's ground manners and MAKE SURE you can catch it in an open field. A mule that has been abused or mistreated will NOT forgive humans. The first thing I do when I encounter a new mule is to make sure I can touch his ears. Some people will smash or twist their ears when they put a bridle on, and ears on a mule are a delicate and sensitive structure. 

As for it's protective abilities, not every donkey or mule will do guard duty. Molly mules and jennets are typically most used because they will protect a smaller/weaker herd member like it is their baby, but a donkey or mule that really hates dogs will function well. However, you need to see if the mule will be calm and collected around dogs under saddle before you put your mom in the saddle! 

I love mules dearly, and my own mule ruined me for horses for the rest of my life. But you absolutely have to remember they are NOT HORSES. They do not think like, act like, or react like horses do. They are not flight-driven, they are self-preservation driven.


----------



## horseluvr2524

It sounds like you are wanting a real protection animal. Have you ever looked at livestock guardian dogs? That is exactly what they are bred to do-protect the livestock and chase off predators, and in some breeds trespassing people. A Great Pyrenees is low aggression and will just scare the threat off and stay with the herd, while a Caucasian Ovcharka is high aggression and will literally take off after the threat and kill it-they are bred for courage and do not back down. There are many different LGD breeds and temperaments ranging between the two extremes I described.

However, there is all the work that goes with the dog (training, socialization which is super important for LGD) which you may not want to do. But an LGD is for sure protection for your animals, while the mule or donkey is a maybe.


----------



## LittleBayMare

Of course I would check the mule out very well before letting my mom anywhere near it. I've seen too many "husband/kid/grandparent safe" equines that just...well they let's just be polite and say I would never let anyone that I cared about who was inexperienced with horses anywhere near them :shock:.
As for the LGD idea. I would love to go that route however its my parents farm and they are saying no to a big dog (anything over 30lbs) for now. I may be able to bring them around in another year or so (once my mom's precious terrier gets snatched by the local wildlife), but until then I need to look for other alternatives. 
As for coydogs being rare, I hear what you are saying, but I am going off of what the old time hunters and farmers are saying about the animals in our small section of the county. But be they coydogs or coywolves, there is not enough food to go around because the ********* game commission keep importing coyotes from Canada and whatever mutts they produce have a nasty habit of going after livestock when they get desperate :evil:. Hence why everyone around here keep a nice big rifle by the backdoor as a welcoming present for any mutts that come calling.
I was told there were no wolves around here so I'm not sure how there could be coywolves around here, but then around I was told there were no mountain lions either, but my dad says the neighbor just shot one the other day so I am upping my efforts in lobbying for permission to get an LGD...or 2. I haven't heard back from the guy with the mule so I don't know where that's going. I would like to get him anyway if he seems suitable and even if I am successful in arguing my case for an LGD just because I really don't like what I'm hearing about mountain lion and bear sightings lately and the LGD would need to mature some anyway.


----------



## horseluvr2524

Wow, yeah see if you can convince them to get an LGD, sounds like you need one. 2 LGD would be a good number, and you can get different breeds. For what you are dealing with you might want to go for something more aggressive than a Great Pyr. Tell your grandparents that the dogs will protect their little dog and other animals from being attacked and eaten.

The karakachan is a rarer breed, and I think they are among the smaller breeds of LGD. If you get females of any breed, they will be smaller than the males. Maybe that could help win your grandparents over.

Link to karakachan website:
The Karakachan Dog Association of America

Personally, if I had the right situation, space, and a wolf or mountain lion problem, I would get a caucasian ovcharka. I just love those dogs and their complete and utter devotion to their family.


----------



## hyperkalemic4

Go to Youtube (mule kills cougar ) Great mules are great, I think the bad ones aren't worth the bullet it would take to kill them.
Two of my daughters train mules and has had some that were just spectacular. There must be a lot of bad ones because I was at a horse sale in Billings,Mt. There was a corral with probably fifty of them in it, I thin a lot of people are not willing to gamble on getting a bad one and a lot of them are bad and go to the kill auction.


----------



## smrobs

^^Actually, that story about the mule killing the cougar was a myth. Yes, the pictures are real, but the cat was already dead when they were taken. The rider shot the cougar and _then_ the mule attacked it.


----------



## george the mule

In defense of Mr. Mule, and as others have noted, They Are Not Horses. And to complicate matters, they are not 50-50 horse/donkey either, but lie somewhere in between depending on the individual mule, and the situation.
This results in the more horse-like animals being far easier to work with, and hence more desirable.
I can say with absolute certainty that my buddy George got more than his good looks from his donkey daddy 
As far as a guard mule, George doesn't like K9s, and will go after domestic dogs aggressively. For that matter, so will the mare in the pasture. Beyond that, they tolerate a bobcat that lives on the property, and don't appear to be bothered by bears. I have also watched them negotiate with the local mule-deer for access to their hay feeder.
As such, I wouldn't simply assume that any given mule would be a born protector. YMMV.
Steve


----------

