# Draw reins ended in horse being put down.



## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

Why do people, that can't use them properly, use draw reins???!!!
Just over a month ago I went to trial a horse and upon getting on him and only walking around he started bucking violently and managed to throw me off somewhat decently.
I couldn't figure out why! There was nothing to give him a fright, his teeth were alright, I checked his back and that was fine, checked the saddle fit, checked girth/bridle/legs etc etc and couldn't find anything wrong, so we put it down to him being a young horse out of work for so long and just throwing a dirty one.
BUT, this particular horse was bought by my friends friend, who is very very good at fixing problem horses. She had everyone under the sun out to this horse, chiropractors, vets, dentists, farriers, everything! And couldn't find anything wrong what-so-ever. But in the pictures I saw of the owner working this horse, she had him in draw reins. I asked why only to be told she schools all her horses in them...
Turns out, she mustn't have used them properly because it effected this poor horse substancially(sp?).
What ended up happening, and what had caused the violent bucking nobody could solve, is that in using the draw reins, being FORCED down very tightly with them, had snapped one of his neck muscles. It wasn't a visible effect, but it sure as hell must have been a painful one!
And because of this, the horse ended up being put down because there was nothing that could be done so he would ever be right again.

Hell, that's exactly why I don't use draw reins and all the fancy gadgets, because i haven't been taught to use them correctly!
I'd much rather stick to my own normal reins rather than use something like draw reins when I don't know how to use them, and end up hurting the poor horse! He was one beautiful horse to.
And he was only 9 too.

Vent over..
Any thoughts on this or other training methods gone wrong that you know of?


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

O gosh I sorry D:

Well we knnow these people and his horse Bacon gets nervous goin in the box for roping and when he doesn't stand immediately he will walk him out and take his rope and whip him!!! Once it was so bad he was bleeding!!!!!! and then he got angry at us for I don't know what!


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

I said ,"know" I should have said we KNEW we don't speak to them anymore and they don't speak to us. That isn't half of what they did. But he whips that poor horse constantly D':<


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

thats cruel!! a girl at pc tied my friends horses head down with draw reins to teach it to go on the bit. my friend didnt know whether it was right or not so she let it go. Then the girl that tied horses head down untied it cos me and my friend yelled at her!!!
they should NOT be taught for collection and on the bit work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_You never rode a horse before you started riding, correct?_

_I learned to use spurs by starting to wear them._

_However, it is horrible that the horse had to be put down._


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

_



You never rode a horse before you started riding, correct?

I learned to use spurs by starting to wear them.

However, it is horrible that the horse had to be put down.

Click to expand...

__That's very true, I just don't understand why the owner was using the draw reins in the first place. She was only using him for paddock riding, and to take to pc and a show once or twice._
_I just think that with things like draw reins one should atleast know the basics of using them and the dangers if they are not used correctly. - Just my opinion. but also my opinion is that forcing a horses head down is not working them properly, as I understand it (from conversations with the owners mother) she used the draw reins as a shortcut, which ended very badly._


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Very good point VelvetsAB, however, to use tools like draw reins, one needs to be given firm instruction on their use or accidents like this can happen all too easily. Riding is not so dangerous to a horse, spurs yeah you can jab them in the ribs a bit, but draw reins/side reins etc. can cause long term damage to the muscular-skeletal system of the horse... definitely not something to be taken lightly.
Yes draw reins can be a good tool when used on specific horses for one or two rides, but not on every horse every ride, that is ridiculous.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am truly sorry the horse had to be put down. 

From what you posted it is a pretty big leap to go from the use of draw reins to it being the sole reason for the horse having issues. There are plenty of horses out there with the same type of issues that have never had draw reins on.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am truly sorry the horse had to be put down.
> 
> From what you posted it is a pretty big leap to go from the use of draw reins to it being the sole reason for the horse having issues. There are plenty of horses out there with the same type of issues that have never had draw reins on.


Agreed!

I understand where the OP is coming from, however any use of an aid or tool can be dangerous if in the wrong hands.

I also believe that any time a training aid is used, it should be under the supervision of someone who knows the proper use of it.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

HollyBubbles said:


> What ended up happening, and what had caused the violent bucking nobody could solve, is that in using the draw reins, being FORCED down very tightly with them, had snapped one of his neck muscles. It wasn't a visible effect, but it sure as hell must have been a painful one!


If a neck muscle 'snapped', the horse would react with everything it did - not just buck under saddle. It would not be able to walk or move it's head without severe pain.


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

Draw reins used properly should do no damage, but if they are being used as a short cut, instead of how they are meant to be used, they can cause damage. When they are used as an aide to teach a horse to break at the poll gradually they are fine, but to ask the horse to give all the way the first time is a short cut. Think of it like you trying to touch your toes, and instead of letting you gradually stretch out and reach them, someone just walked up next to you and forced you the rest of the way down. Horses should gradually learn to break at the poll so their neck muscles can stretch accordingly and grow in the right places. 

I hate to see people using any training aide improperly, but the sad fact is that it happens. I try to correct it when I see it, but none of us can educate everyone, so it will continue. I don't like that this is a fact of life, but there is nothing I can do about it, besides try to stop it when I see it.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I've used draw reins for years and have never had an issue. They're a great training device if used properly. There's a lot of things that could have attributed to this. Unfortantely, a lot of "trainers" out there just shouldn't be. But I'm sure we all know how hard it is to argue with some horse people. 
However, if this vet and chiropractor didn't notice a torn/ripped muscle, I'd be looking for new ones. Pulled muscles are harder to see, torn ones are easier. Perhaps you'd search for a reputable EMT around there instead.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

> From what you posted it is a pretty big leap to go from the use of draw reins to it being the sole reason for the horse having issues. There are plenty of horses out there with the same type of issues that have never had draw reins on.


For this particular horse, as I understand it, it was the draw reins that caused the neck injury, I understand there could have been other issues with the horse, but I have seen the pictures of this horse being ridden with the draw reins on.



> If a neck muscle 'snapped', the horse would react with everything it did - not just buck under saddle. It would not be able to walk or move it's head without severe pain.


That's kind of what I thought, but when I initially went to try the horse he hadn't been worked with the draw reins for around 9 months because the owner had moved to Australia. so now I am wondering, could it have been painful initially for him, but then as time went on, could it have healed a bit and just hurt if he tweaked it a certain way? When we went out to catch him he was throwing these amazing bucks and didn't want to be caught but me being me, I thought nothing of it because the horse I have now, and have had for 2 and a half years, did the same when we went to see her, except she has never once done it under saddle.
The only reason for the question above is because my dad had a sidecar accident and broke a small bone in his neck that went un-noticed for months, even after x-rays, he just had discomfort in his neck constantly. They only fgured it was broken when he got sick of the pain and went to a specialist.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

I mean, the truth is...is that anything could have happened.

If the horse had an old injury, it _could have _been caused by the improper use of the draw reins, or it _could have _been caused by something else.

When the draw reins were applied and the horse moved his neck a certain way, it could have snapped or torn the muscle at that time. It could have just been an old injury irritated by the draw reins this time.

Coincidence.

OR it could have happened just like you said.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

> I've used draw reins for years and have never had an issue. They're a great training device if used properly. There's a lot of things that could have attributed to this. Unfortantely, a lot of "trainers" out there just shouldn't be. But I'm sure we all know how hard it is to argue with some horse people.
> However, if this vet and chiropractor didn't notice a torn/ripped muscle, I'd be looking for new ones. Pulled muscles are harder to see, torn ones are easier. Perhaps you'd search for a reputable EMT around there instead.


Amen to that.
Yes, there only seems to be one reliable vet in this area all the other's are like "oh just do this and she'll be right" - Yeah sure, that worked out well for one of our poor girls. - Ditched that vet instantly.
I think if I needed a chiropractor I would be inclined to get one in from out of town as they are more reputable, but thankfully *touch wood I have never had a horse with a back or neck injury or anything else as of yet.

My neighbour tried telling me I should ride my new horse now while he is sore on his front hooves so he won't do anything... He's a race horse trainer, but my opinion would be to wait for Mitch to have front shoes put on and lunge him in the mean time because the last thing I want is my new horse who is not exactly small, to associate being ridden, with being sore. I know if anybody got on my back while my feet were sore I'd be getting them off if it was the last thing I did. - But that's just my method of working with them.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

> If the horse had an old injury, it _could have _been caused by the improper use of the draw reins, or it _could have _been caused by something else.
> 
> When the draw reins were applied and the horse moved his neck a certain way, it could have snapped or torn the muscle at that time. It could have just been an old injury irritated by the draw reins this time.


That's very true I didn't think of it that way, but I still hear lots about people in my area who use draw reins, I was _told_ that one girl I know used them incorrectly on an 11.2hh pony and gave him an upside down neck, now I have no idea what that means, but that just puts me off using draw reins even more. I know this pony personally and he's an awesome little pony, from the ground anyway, I haven't ridden him.
And because of this the pony and rider got told at a competition by the judge that he wouldn't amount to anything because they had ruined his neck.
If I was to even think about using any new piece of equipment that I hadn't used before, I would go to a well known trainer in my area before I even laid hands on the equipment, and I would probably be told I don't even need the equipment.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree. They need to be used by a profesional horse person (NOT someone who thinks they) And to be used sparingly and for not very long periods.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

> I agree. They need to be used by a profesional horse person (NOT someone who thinks they) And to be used sparingly and for not very long periods.


That's exactly what I thought! One of my friends uses them(or side reins I can't remember) every now and again when she schools two of her horses, only until they willingly put their head down, then she changes back to normal reins. One of them takes up to 20 minutes, but she doesn't go "your **** well gonna go down NOW *yank*" she just rides around calmy until the horse puts his/her own head down by themselves.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Obviously when a tool is used wrong, it is not a useful tool....but *I* still believe that you have to use something to know how to use it._

_I have never ridden in a Pelham before, but am about to try. If I never try, then how do I know if I am using it properly or not?_

_Again, it is tragic that such an accident had to happen, but it does sound like there was a lot more to this then just the draw reins "killing" the horse._


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Given that the horse had had 9 months off, he could have done it in his pasture too...not saying that draw reins didn't contribute, as they certainly may have, but if he had that much time off, and little or no work in that time, it stands to reason he most certainly could have had a pasture accident and no one noticed it, because no one was handling him.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

VelvetsAB said:


> _Obviously when a tool is used wrong, it is not a useful tool....but *I* still believe that you have to use something to know how to use it._
> 
> _I have never ridden in a Pelham before, but am about to try. If I never try, then how do I know if I am using it properly or not?_


Sorry but I believe rather then trying things yourself you should get a reputable teacher to teach you the correct way of doig thigs.

A pelham ca be harsh if you don't know what you are doing! I learnt to play with double reis by using a dutch gag first as it is a gentler bit. My instructor walked me through it ad wouldnt let me use a pelham untill she thoguht my hads were good eough.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

> *Sorry but I believe rather then trying things yourself you should get a reputable teacher to teach you the correct way of doig thigs.
> *
> A pelham ca be harsh if you don't know what you are doing! I learnt to play with double reis by using a dutch gag first as it is a gentler bit. My instructor walked me through it ad wouldnt let me use a pelham untill she thoguht my hads were good eough.


Thankyou!!! This is my opinion also, I would never try something new (that could injure the horse if used incorrectly) without going to a trainer to learn how to use it first, and be walked through using it.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

If you just experiment with these harsh tools on your own, how are you to know that you are using it correctly? Does somebody spurring a horse every ride to the point of bleeding make it right just because they have not been taught differently and have always done it like that?
You need someone experienced to teach you have to use these tools, and to watch your first few attempts at using them yourself, to ensure that you are using them correctly


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

sorry about the awful spelling in my post above. My N key is sticky and I hadn't realised until after the 10min editing limit!


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

That poor horse !!

A huge pet peeve of mine (which I see ALL the time in jumpers and eventers) is when people use a gag bit with no snaffle rein ! If you need to use a gag on your horse you also need to learn to ride with 2 reins... Or train your horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

faye said:


> Sorry but I believe rather then trying things yourself you should get a reputable teacher to teach you the correct way of doig thigs.


Way to jump to conclusions. Velvet is working with a trainer.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Well thats good, but she was saying that you need to teach yourself how to use things...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Well thats good, but she was saying that you need to teach yourself how to use things...


No, she is saying that you, as a rider, do not know how to use something until you have experienced it.

Trainer has you add something new to your set up, you as a rider have to learn how to use them.

That is what she is saying.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

HollyBubbles said:


> so now I am wondering, could it have been painful initially for him, but then as time went on, could it have healed a bit and just hurt if he tweaked it a certain way?


If the muscle was snapped - there would likely be an outward bulge. There truly is not much to a horses neck. Horses use their heads and necks to eat, lay, stand, etc. Again - very unlikely it was a muscle 'snap'. 

Soft tissue injuries take a very long time to heal as they never rest. Compare spraining an ankle to breaking it. Much better to break.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Sorry I must have misread it.
Expirencing something and teaching yourself are two different things... Why didn't she just say she had a trainer? 

I was just thinking that I don't like the "trial and error" You should always have guidance with a new training device. Especially draw reins.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I highly doubt she thought her post was going to get picked apart like this, as she is not the OP and she was just pointing out that everyone starts as a novice with things at some point in their riding career.

No one is born knowing how to use draw reins or a pelham or spurs, etc.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

But there are people who know how to use them properly and people should learn from them not by their own trial and error


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Ray, I am not sure why you are saying that like it is not what I (and Velvet) are saying? 

Of course it is best to work with a trainer or knowledgeable instructor.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

No I'm sorry I don't really know what you are saying... All I'm saying is you should never try something that you don't have someone to teach to not to "You need to use it to know how to use it"


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Ok Ray I think its time to end it, your arguments are going in circles. Always Behind is agreeing with you! 
I do have to admit that I read velvet's posts as though they were talking about learning through trial and error, but not that that's been cleared up, all good


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

faye said:


> Sorry but I believe rather then trying things yourself you should get a reputable teacher to teach you the correct way of doig thigs.





Kayty said:


> If you just experiment with these harsh tools on your own, how are you to know that you are using it correctly? Does somebody spurring a horse every ride to the point of bleeding make it right just because they have not been taught differently and have always done it like that?
> You need someone experienced to teach you have to use these tools, and to watch your first few attempts at using them yourself, to ensure that you are using them correctly





Alwaysbehind said:


> Way to jump to conclusions. Velvet is working with a trainer.





Ray MacDonald said:


> Sorry I must have misread it.
> Expirencing something and teaching yourself are two different things... Why didn't she just say she had a trainer?
> 
> I was just thinking that I don't like the "trial and error" You should always have guidance with a new training device. Especially draw reins.





Ray MacDonald said:


> But there are people who know how to use them properly and people should learn from them not by their own trial and error


_I am just going to address all of the above at the same time since they link together..._

_To begin with, I do not even own my own horse, so I would not be able to just randomly experiment. My coach will be working with me, on an older lesson horse, so that I can learn how to use a Pelham. *BUT* I can still educate myself on how to use it. Why should I have had to say I had a trainer or not? This thread is not about me, but about the horse who met a terrible end "because" of draw reins._

_I will still have to learn and experience it, as my coach cannot ride every step for me. By experimenting with it, I can figure out what will work best for me. So....I get told what to do, which I apply to myself, which with experimenting figure out how it works best. _

_Learning ANYTHING is going to be trial and error, regardless of someone has a coach or not. Horses are each individuals, just like ourselves, so something that works for one horse could possibly not work for another. _

_The teachers/coaches/trainers that we rely on so much also probably had to go through trial and error with different techniques to get them to where they are._

_And by the way...I taught myself how to ride. I never had lessons until I was in high school except for maybe 3 before my parents went bankrupt. So I had at least 7 years of riding before taking regular lessons for a few years. After a break and now 2 years of lesson, I can honestly say I ride better then some of the kids who have had consistant lessons for more years then I have._

_So yes, it is possible to teach yourself how to do something....as long as you educate yourself. Of course, having a coach/teacher/trainer is always an ideal situation._


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## monkeyleap (Dec 16, 2010)

Draw Reins??? *Really?* Is there a more cruel punishment for an innocent horse? I mean, maybe one really _light session_ with them would be enough for a non-responding horse, but _TRAINED WITH THEM?!?!?!_ There are bad people like that who just make push-button horses out of a really talented creature. AHEM!


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Ok Ray I think its time to end it, your arguments are going in circles. Always Behind is agreeing with you!
> I do have to admit that I read velvet's posts as though they were talking about learning through trial and error, but not that that's been cleared up, all good


Ahahahahaha!! Sorry! Sometimes things just don't click in my head!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

monkeyleap said:


> Draw Reins??? *Really?* Is there a more cruel punishment for an innocent horse? I mean, maybe one really _light session_ with them would be enough for a non-responding horse, but _TRAINED WITH THEM?!?!?!_ There are bad people like that who just make push-button horses out of a really talented creature. AHEM!


And a "one light session" will not get the results that a trainer would be looking for. Draw reins are NOT a bad tool IF you aren't using them to actually tie the head down and in to a position... they should be loose enough for the horse to have the 'suggestion' to bring his head and neck down and to encourage him to bring his spine up, and rear legs under him more. They are NOT a cruel restraint, to hold the head into place, although this is unfortunately often the case.


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## skypheonix (Dec 17, 2010)

I been riding twenty years now and taught myself not had a trainer or anything to teach me to use aids but what I did do to work out if was doing it right was watch videos use books etc broken in plenty horses now and they all gone on to become successes, without injuries or mishaps except for the normal young horse stuff I think stuff can be self taught. It's a real shame about this horse but uses properly draw reins can be a good aide


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