# Probiotics or Prebiotics - Runny discharge



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

what is the rest of his diet?? Or is he on only hay???


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

He gets a small scoop of Purina Omolene 100. He is an easy keeper in very light work, out 24/7, so he really does not require any grain. This is more of a treat for coming to the barn and so he does not fuss so much when the other horses are eating their breakfast.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

any clue how much that small scoop is?

The first thing "I" would do is remove any and all grains that can cause gassy issues in the hind gut. 

When I get one with loose gassy stools like you are talking I put them on straight hay for a couple weeks with some hay pellets at feed time for the treat 

but then again Duke has been on ration balancer and free choice hay for six months and he still has liquid gas some horses just do and it seems to be the big drinkers .. Duke drinks about four times as much as my others he will literally gaurd the water trough


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

I'm a big believer in probiotics. They help utilize the food eaten, and are just good for over all hind gut health. You can buy feed that has them in it (will be listed like a yogurt pkg on feed bag ie; lactobaccillius (sp) etc. There are also a lot of good supplements that have them if your feed does not you can add.
You can also stir yogurt up in feed to get the good bacteria to them as well.

Prebiotics are kind of like food for probiotics, and help pro do a better job. Some say it's best to have both as opposed to just probiotics alone


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

I have never measured it, as it is more of a treat, but I would guess about 1 cup. He is also a big drinker. I will have to look into hay pellets. Obviously, more roughage could not hurt. Any thoughts on pelleted feed?


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

depends on where you live on feed  

I always go grain free 

Being in Virginia most like Triple Crown 30% which has you pre and pro bios in it


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

You can always contact SmartPak and get him on a suppliment that has Digestive Health Products in it. 

I have my 21 year old TB on SmartDigest Ultra - it has both Pro and Pre. I have seen great results with my TB after being on this product. He's been on, pretty close to a year now.

SmartDigest Ultra - Horse Digestive Supplements from SmartPak Equine


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

Peggysue - Thanks for the insight. I was hoping that pelleted feed had less grain and more vitamins and minerals, but I just looked at the ingredients and it still is grain. I was thinking along the lines that if I did feed him probiotics, then I would probably use a powder and would need something to mix it with. I do see the benefits of taking him off any grain, if he does not need it. Not to sabotage my own thread, but I would be very interested to know what you feed your horses, as I agree with you that a lot of horse feed is "junk food."

qtehrsecrazy - A lot of people on the internet seem to feel the same way that you do. Would you agree that it is something that I could give my horse and even if he did not need it, it would not cause any harm? When I look up the different probiotics, my horse does not have any of the "symptoms" that they are recommending that you use it for. I do not want to give him something that he does not need, but at the same time, if it is truly harmless and could provide some benefit to him, I would be willing to try it.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

RATHER BE RIDING said:


> Peggysue - Thanks for the insight. I was hoping that pelleted feed had less grain and more vitamins and minerals, but I just looked at the ingredients and it still is grain. I was thinking along the lines that if I did feed him probiotics, then I would probably use a powder and would need something to mix it with. I do see the benefits of taking him off any grain, if he does not need it. Not to sabotage my own thread, but I would be very interested to know what you feed your horses, as I agree with you that a lot of horse feed is "junk food."
> 
> qtehrsecrazy - A lot of people on the internet seem to feel the same way that you do. Would you agree that it is something that I could give my horse and even if he did not need it, it would not cause any harm? When I look up the different probiotics, my horse does not have any of the "symptoms" that they are recommending that you use it for. I do not want to give him something that he does not need, but at the same time, if it is truly harmless and could provide some benefit to him, I would be willing to try it.


Not going to hurt him at all. It's no different than you eating a cup of yogurt daily. Mine get it daily and have for years. Keeps a good balance going.

There are good feeds out there with it included if you choose to go that route. If not, supplements are available. SmartPaks as mentioned above, and Equerrys are the 2 I like personally, but thats just my preference...


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> You can always contact SmartPak and get him on a suppliment that has Digestive Health Products in it.
> 
> I have my 21 year old TB on SmartDigest Ultra - it has both Pro and Pre. I have seen great results with my TB after being on this product. He's been on, pretty close to a year now.
> 
> SmartDigest Ultra - Horse Digestive Supplements from SmartPak Equine



This is where I am hitting a wall. The product description says "SmartDigest Ultra is an outstanding choice for horses under stress from training and competition, as well as seniors, hard keepers, horses on antibiotics, those with loose stool or undergoing feed changes." 

He does not fit any of that except for feed changes, which have been occurring gradually over the last few months, with the field dying off and starting hay, and the "liquid gas" has started within the last couple of weeks. It seems the manufacturer is telling me one thing and people who believe in the use of probiotics are telling me, regardless of whether or not you have these symptoms, use the product. 

I am just confused and want all the information I can get before I make any decisions.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I understand - this is where you can call SmartPak directly and discuss your concerns and the situation to a Representantive - they are wonderful to talk to, great listeners and very educated on their products. The why's and the how's. 

Even if this product that I mentioned is not the route - they'll know what direction to point you in.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

Probiotics just help aid in digestion, and for an older horse it could mean the difference in getting the nutrition in and keeping it in, which means keeping a healthy weight. Everything else listed that it does, is just a bonus


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

Thank you to everyone for your feedback! I am an information junkie and appreciate hearing all opinions before I make a decision that effects my horses. I am also addicted to this forum and late for work!! If you have anything to add, please do and I will check back later.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

meh work......that's something I have to get ready for too....phpthpthpt...thanks for reminding me.................lol


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

I use a ration balancer like Triple Crown's 30% supplement 
Triple Crown 30% Supplement | www.triplecrownfeed.com

no grains high nutrition and it is a pellet 

the one I use you can't get where you are LOL it is a midwest product

I also alllow them free choice hay and they each get 1lb of hay pellets daily

Here is the Triple Crown 30% Ingredient list 
Dehulled Soybean Meal, Wheat Middlings, Ground Limestone, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Distillers Dried Grains, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Kelp Meal, Yeast Culture, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Anethole, Fenugreek Seed, Lecithin, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Soybean Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Selenium Yeast, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Silicon Dioxide, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Cane Molasses, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Sesquicarbonate, Brewers Dried Yeast, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Flaxseed, Rice Bran, Monosodium Phosphate, Calcium Lignin Sulfonate, L-Lysine, DL-methionine, (Propionic Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate (Preservatives)). (Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000)


You can also look for Diamond V yeast itis suppose to help as well


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

Peggysue - I have been all over the internet today comparing feeds and reading articles. I agree with you regarding the TC30. It seems to be the best choice for the feeds that are available in my area. It has the probiotics, so I really like that I will not need an additional supplement. 

I am very impressed with your knowledge and saw your posts all over the place. I am thankful that you answered yet another feed question. It was very helpful and I have learned a lot about nutrition doing the research. Even if it is not the grain causing my geldings problems, I think that a RB will be much better for all my horses. 

The only question that I could not find an answer to is, why is the TC30 so high in protein and how does that effect my horse? Everything that I was reading suggests a much lower percentage and warns of the harmful effects of too much protein. My horses are in very light work and even when the weather clears, they are never pushed that hard. Is this too much protein for them?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I think it has something to do with their kidneys not being able to process it or handle it or something like that.............


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

qtrhorscrazy - The more I read about probiotics the bigger fan I became. I am going to try a feed that has it included, so I am hoping that it helps. 

IMEventer - I do really like SmartPak. If the TC 30 does not do the trick, I am going to try the SmartDigest. I hope you made it to work on time. I didn't, but the weather was bad so I had a better excuse other then I lost tract of time while on the computer. Still not as bad as the time I forgot to pick the kids up from the bus stop because I was playing Free Cell.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

OK here we go 

at 12% that is .12 lbs of protien per lb of feed given normally this is about 5lbs per day or .60lbs of protien

at 30% you get .30lbs of protien per lb at one pound a day.. so 

your 12% is .6lbs of protien per day 
while the 30% is .3lbs of protien per day 

it's not the % you worry about but hte total amount they are getting 

PLUS the TC30% is a higher "grade" of protien making it easier for the horse to use and better for them 

if that doesn't make sense I will pm you my phone number it is easier to explain "in person"


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

Peggysue - You are a saint! I was on the computer late last night and saw where you have explained that over and over on various forums. I really do appreciate you explaining it one more time and not giving up on us idiots that don't know how to read a feed tag or understand what we are feeding our horses. I really have learned a lot in the past few days. I picked up a bad of TC30 today. Thanks again!!


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

good luck and takes LOTS of pictures, you will be so surprised at the little things you miss day to day that you will notice in pictures

this time of year they won't be as noticable but just wait until spring!!! 

Ration balancers are the One A Day for horses  or my favorite saying is Flintstones on steriods


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

If you want to put him on hay only, I am sure that there are vitamin/mineral supplements that you could give him to balance it out, and just top dress with a probiotic/prebiotic from smartpak. I have used the triple crown lite and sunshine plus. Both seemed to be good sources of essential vitamins/minerals for my easy keeper mare, who didn't need grain but I wanted to assure that she was getting everything she needed. Feeding only one cup of a grain designed to be fed at a certain amount of pounds per day isn't really sufficient as many people believe. I work at a grain store and see this all the time. It is important to remember that the values listed on the tag are percentages, meaning that if you feed less than the least recommended feeding rate, they will still be lacking overall because foe example, 30% of 6 ounces is a much different amount than 30% of 6 pounds. This is why I like to push the vitamin/mineral supplements that will give your horse everything they need and are designed to be fed in smaller amounts (basically the vitamins are more concentrated). Hope this helps


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## RATHER BE RIDING (Dec 7, 2010)

ScharmLily said:


> If you want to put him on hay only, I am sure that there are vitamin/mineral supplements that you could give him to balance it out, and just top dress with a probiotic/prebiotic from smartpak. I have used the triple crown lite and sunshine plus. Both seemed to be good sources of essential vitamins/minerals for my easy keeper mare, who didn't need grain but I wanted to assure that she was getting everything she needed. Feeding only one cup of a grain designed to be fed at a certain amount of pounds per day isn't really sufficient as many people believe. I work at a grain store and see this all the time. It is important to remember that the values listed on the tag are percentages, meaning that if you feed less than the least recommended feeding rate, they will still be lacking overall because foe example, 30% of 6 ounces is a much different amount than 30% of 6 pounds. This is why I like to push the vitamin/mineral supplements that will give your horse everything they need and are designed to be fed in smaller amounts (basically the vitamins are more concentrated). Hope this helps



He has been on hay and pasture only. I think that you misunderstood about the cup of grain that he was getting. It was only a treat so that he came to the barn in the morning with the other horses and had a little to eat while the others ate their breakfast. I realize that he was getting no nutritional value from that small amount. I did look at the TC Lite, but I believe that it is still a grain based feed. He does end up with a lot of grain in his poo and with his runny problem, I do think that he has problems processing grain. I decided to go with the TC 30 Supplement that has the probiotics in it, which I think is in line with what you were saying at the end of your post. Thanks!


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