# Crit. the HECK out of these two! [Welsh Stallions]



## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

what mare do you plan on breeding and do you have conformation pics of her?


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Your post doesn't make the most sense. you could live cover and not take so you have spent more money in gas than AI and shipping semen. Mare care pr day dropping her off and picking her up is 2 round trips. Any way they are obviously both nice horses and I find it offensive to ask people to critic the heck out of 2 nice horses taht do not belong to you. Now let us critic your mare and I would not be offended by this


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Nope I have no conformation pictures, & I don't want a bashing. I have my mind made up & you may call me ignorant, stupid, or whatever, I don't care at this point. This way my foal/breeding plan (_*IN ABOVE POST!*_)


ilovemyPhillip said:


> I would be driving my mare out to one of these stallions, and YES I have plans for a foal. I know exactly what I want, and I think breeding is the best option. My mare is a "ranch horse", very versatile in her under-saddle work, she will be shown in the local hunter ring this summer, works well with children, has very few issues (all that I post are training errors, nothing psychological, except claustrophobia), etc.
> 
> I want a foal this will not only excel in the hunter ring, but can work the livestock around my farm (such as my mare does). I want a quiet horse that I KNOW. I do not know my horses completely, especially in their past experiences.. I only know small fragments of virtually useless information. I feel that their past is a barrier for their future - & I do not want another horse like that. The foal would be hand raised, with people around with no intentions of harm.
> 
> ...


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> Your post doesn't make the most sense. you could live cover and not take so you have spent more money in gas than AI and shipping semen. Mare care pr day dropping her off and picking her up is 2 round trips. Any way they are obviously both nice horses and I find it offensive to ask people to critic the heck out of 2 nice horses taht do not belong to you. Now let us critic your mare and I would not be offended by this


How is it offensive? I did not say either horse was bad, or worse than the other. I just asked opinions on which horses was better suited for my foal expectations. & frankly it doesn't matter if you are "offended" or not. I'm not trying to be rude at all but it doesn't have much relevance.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> Nope I have no conformation pictures, & I don't want a bashing.


Oh I misunderstood what HARD, HARSH critiques!!!! meant.
They are both lovely stallions. Oh and if you can't afford shipping semen what are you going to do if you need extra medical care? or a trailer tire?


----------



## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Why in the world are you bashing her? I will be first in line to say I bash irresponsible breeders, but this is unnecessary and foolish.

She can afford it, she just doesn't want to pay for it and have her mare not catch. Then she'd have to pay for it TWICE. Live cover is better when it comes to semen count and having a better chance of catching. Don't see how this is something to sneer at. No matter how much money I had I wouldn't want to pay for something twice.

Now I can't tell movement obviously, but I like the first pony better--he has a shorter back and a slightly nicer rump (they're both nice.) His hind end is angled well, his shoulder is nice nice nice, and he has a great neck too (though both show muscling of a rollkured horse... interesting!). I like both, but the first one is just a little better in my opinion.


----------



## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

They are both very nice stallys but we have to find the right one for YOUR mare not which one is the best.


----------



## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

I like the first one a lot hes very nice looking all of them are nice. But what breed is your mare?


----------



## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

http://www.horseforum.com/horses.php?horse=1940

I am guessing this is your mare? Or is it a different one? Correct me please if I am wrong.
I would like to see some pictures of her because these two horses may not be suited for what you need for breeding your mare.


----------



## LoveStory10 (Oct 31, 2009)

I cant blame you for wanting one of those two, they are both lovely. I like the first one the most, I just like his head and neck, plus he has a nice colour. I agree that confo pics of your mare would help, but if not, then I'd pick the first guy


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

The mare is half the equation when breeding, lots vouch for more. Hence it is impossible to advise you on which stallion when we don't know if your mare has any conformational weaknesses that could be countered by the right stallion. 

In general, I like the first better - better neck set. However, depending on your mare, the other may be more suitable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

mayfieldk said:


> Why in the world are you bashing her? I will be first in line to say I bash irresponsible breeders, but this is unnecessary and foolish.
> 
> She can afford it, she just doesn't want to pay for it and have her mare not catch. Then she'd have to pay for it TWICE. Live cover is better when it comes to semen count and having a better chance of catching. Don't see how this is something to sneer at. No matter how much money I had I wouldn't want to pay for something twice.
> 
> Now I can't tell movement obviously, but I like the first pony better--he has a shorter back and a slightly nicer rump (they're both nice.) His hind end is angled well, his shoulder is nice nice nice, and he has a great neck too (though both show muscling of a rollkured horse... interesting!). I like both, but the first one is just a little better in my opinion.


Thank you so much!! Yes, you hit it right on the nose.. I don't want to pay for something twice. I was thinking the first pony also, thanks for your major input.



EventersBabe said:


> http://www.horseforum.com/horses.php?horse=1940
> 
> I am guessing this is your mare? Or is it a different one? Correct me please if I am wrong.
> I would like to see some pictures of her because these two horses may not be suited for what you need for breeding your mare.


Yes this is my mare, not the best pictures. I have a thread with loads of pictures of her.. Let me pull some. 




wild_spot said:


> The mare is half the equation when breeding, lots vouch for more. Hence it is impossible to advise you on which stallion when we don't know if your mare has any conformational weaknesses that could be countered by the right stallion.
> 
> In general, I like the first better - better neck set. However, depending on your mare, the other may be more suitable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I know, I will pull some pictures. 

~~~~
I just don't want the "no breeding bandwagon" to come along. I have tried repeatedly to buy a decent registered mare, but we just do not have room for another horse PLUS a foal. I will be working closely under a breeder in the next few weeks, and I will ask her opinion of the whole thing.. She breeds hunter ponies.


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Okay, these pics are gunna be large, sorry. Above is her trot. Or, a form of her trot, at least.









Toes out in the back, I know.










Unfortunately this is the closer picture I have of her squared up.. 

And..










Here is a video of her training -
http://www.laurallakefarm.com/apps/videos/videos/show/6440803-savannah-


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

EventersBabe said:


> I like the first one a lot hes very nice looking all of them are nice. But what breed is your mare?


Icelandic cross.


----------



## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I am just asking a simple, general question because it's not quite clear to me.

What is your specific reason for breeding? I see that you would like a pony that excels in hunters and also can work the farm. You thought about buying a registered mare to breed, but don't have room for another horse AND foal. Why not just buy a hunter pony? Why is breeding so important that you'd consider buying a mare instead of just buying the hunter? 

I'm not saying anything in regards to your decision, i'm just not sure I completely understand your reasoning.

I'm terrible at critique but i do like the first boy better.


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Squeak said:


> I am just asking a simple, general question because it's not quite clear to me.
> 
> What is your specific reason for breeding? I see that you would like a pony that excels in hunters and also can work the farm. You thought about buying a registered mare to breed, but don't have room for another horse AND foal. Why not just buy a hunter pony? Why is breeding so important that you'd consider buying a mare instead of just buying the hunter?
> 
> ...


Wow, this thread is making me sound awful.

Clarification:
Alright, I understand buying a hunter would be easier, or an unbroke horse would make more sense then breeding. Yes, I am willing to buy a horse/foal for these purposes (i.e. overpopulation, over-filling rescues, etc.).. But I just wanted a critique to see what I was really getting into. I would like to aspire to breed National show horses (leaning towards Welsh or Quarter Horses) - I can't see myself an any other position than doing something in the equine world.. And breeding is just the way I would like to go. 

If at 14, I can successfully breed an "undesirable" mare, raise, brake, and train a foal that will be known in the hunter community.. That would be a big step in my career direction. Basically I just want to "try" and toy with the breeding/training/showing world to make sure it's what I want to do..

I know some of you are thinking "breeding is not a game, you cannot bring a life into this world and just have it take up space! You don't know what you are doing, so just stay out of it." -- I don't want that kind of response. 

At this point I don't know what else to say without making me sound childish & immature..


----------



## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

You have every reason to do what you feel. My mare Babee is a 15.2 hand Appendix. an I am breeding her because I want a foal that I can train and use for fure shows eventing, hunters or what ever.

You make that choice it sounds like you want to be a trainer/breeder typ so I say if you really want to do this then why not?
It makes sense to me


----------



## ChloeButler09 (May 2, 2010)

i liek the first one alot better,the second one shows a little more muscling of a rollkured horse,the second one is lovely but i dont no your mare and i dont no wich one seems better


----------



## TheRoughrider21 (Aug 25, 2009)

I honestly like the first one better. They're both nice looking studs though so I say go with what you want your foal to hopefully be.


----------



## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I wasn't trying to make you sound awful at all, i just honestly didn't understand which is why i asked.


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

EventersBabe said:


> You have every reason to do what you feel. My mare Babee is a 15.2 hand Appendix. an I am breeding her because I want a foal that I can train and use for fure shows eventing, hunters or what ever.
> 
> You make that choice it sounds like you want to be a trainer/breeder typ so I say if you really want to do this then why not?
> It makes sense to me


I agree.

Basically both are pretty much equal. I like that the first one went the extra mile and got registered with the AWR and was first premium.

The second one has the advantage of having the foals able to be shown under certain programs and the jump is better on this pony.

Because your horse is a cross and the foal could only be register as half the payback program of the second pony may be redundant. The first one may give you more registration options.

Conformation...the first one

Jump...the second one.


----------



## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Personally I prefer the second one, but thats just my choice


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Thank you everyone! At this point I do not know who to chose, so I will email the breeders to see what their policies are for outside & unregistered mares.


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> Thank you everyone! At this point I do not know who to chose, so I will email the breeders to see what their policies are for outside & unregistered mares.


Have you thought of getting your pony registered AWR like the first one is?


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Spyder, how would I register her? Like, I know nothing of her background, breeder, dam/sire, etc. Would I have to be reg. myself? Qualifications? I would happily register her in anyway I can to better a foal's chance.


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

In order to get an accurate crituque of what you are looking for, we need to see both pictures of the intended stallions (which you've posted), but the mare as well. 

I will tell you this much, I do not like the hip structure of either of these two...there is something lacking, and I wouldn't want that passed on, unless I knew the mare had a near perfect hip, and rear leg structure.


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Hahahahha, mom2pride, no she does not. I posted semi-decent pictures of her on page 2, I believe.


----------



## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> Hahahahha, mom2pride, no she does not. I posted semi-decent pictures of her on page 2, I believe.


Hahaha...yeah I saw that "after" I posted...

If you are set on one of these two stallions, I would go with the bay stallion. He has the best over all conformation and may be able to best straighten out the flaws that your mare exhibits. BUT...moms flaws may still wind up being predominant, so realize you may not get a baby that's any better, conformationally, or performance wise than her...it's just a risk you take breeding your horse; not a slam, by any means. :wink:


----------



## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

The best stallion is the one that best compliments your mare. 

have you seen a video of either of these stallions? (did i miss it somewhere?) if you are breeding for a hunter you absolutely must consider movement, along with quality of jump. without a video you can't judge how nice of a mover either of these guys are. 

as far as hunters are concerned... you're looking at 2 possibly very different ponies here. First of all is the 1st one more suitable for dressage or for hunters? Because the ideal movement between the two is actually different. A nice dressage horse often does not have the ideal hunter movement. And like i said, movement is everything! The ad for the 2nd horse mentions his 10+ movement, big stride, and nice jump. All crucial for the hunter ring! Rosmel's are known amongst pony people to be on the fancier side. 

Also, size matters! How big is your mare? The first one, first of all, is section A. Generally in the hunter ring a Section B (horse 2) is more suitable. Keep in mind too that in the show ring you have smalls (up to 12.2), mediums (12.2-13.2), and larges (13.2-14.2). I know you can't really determine exactly how tall a horse is going to be, but a 14.3 horse is almost worthless in resale value. A 12.3 or 13.3 is pretty hard to sell as well. And as a whole smalls are hard b/c the kids who are going to ride them are going to be young beginners so it MUST be trained very well and beginner friendly. And lots of parents don't like buying a small knowing their kid is going to outgrow fairly quickly. Mediums are much easier to sell. And while your initial plans are to keep this baby forever, every good breeder needs to think about resale value. 

My vote (if you're really looking for a hunter) is horse 2.


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> Hahaha...yeah I saw that "after" I posted...
> 
> If you are set on one of these two stallions, I would go with the bay stallion. He has the best over all conformation and may be able to best straighten out the flaws that your mare exhibits. BUT...moms flaws may still wind up being predominant, so realize you may not get a baby that's any better, conformationally, or performance wise than her...it's just a risk you take breeding your horse; not a slam, by any means. :wink:


Oh none taken! :wink: I am not set on either two, I am just looking for stallions close(r) to me. I would use Mardi Gras BUT the drive is too far, and like I said before I would prefer not to do AI.


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> Spyder, how would I register her? Like, I know nothing of her background, breeder, dam/sire, etc. Would I have to be reg. myself? Qualifications? I would happily register her in anyway I can to better a foal's chance.



Most owners of stallions will willingly offer you information of the registry they belong to and their requirements.

Personally if it were me I would email the owner of the first stallion and simply ask.

Other than that you could go to the AWR website and read it and talk to them.


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I looked at the AWR website, Spyder.. Not much info there. I will email the breeder after I talk business and set up dates with my mother (which may be a few weeks).


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

... Bump...


----------



## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

I think I'm diggin' the second one. He looks sooooo handsome!!!

Your mare looks like a cutie too!!


----------



## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Thank you! I will be emailing the breeders tonight to see what their policies are with non registered, non Welsh mares. If anyone knows Welsh stallions around VA that are proven, PLEASE send me a link & the breeders email!


----------

