# Dewormer & weight gaining supplements?



## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Ok I got a new mare and she is a little on the skinny side. So I would like yalls opinion on the best dewormers and weight gaining supplements for your money. I bought some Quest dewormer today just cause I needed it. So whats yalls opinions on Quest? And I haave never had to buy a weight supplement as all my horses have been fatties. lol. So Idk where to start on those.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I can't say much about wormers, I've been use safeguard though because my mare was lactating/pregnant. I know a lot of people really don't like Quest, but I am not sure why.

As far as weightbuilding supplements, I had an underweight mare I got in July I started her with regular old Farnam's Weightbuilder, and then about December I switched her over to Omegatin, which I have seen GREAT results with, BTW, very happy with it. She was in the good by fall anyways, and now she has a nice shiny coat and rock hard hooves to boot. :lol:


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I like Quest, but if you do not know the deworming history on the horse, I would not use it first. I would first deworm with Pyrantle Promate, a double dose. Then use Quest in 4-6 weks. After that, use a fecal egg count to see what kind of deworming you need to do.

As for weight gainers, I like to give free choice grass hay, the best quality I can find. For "feed" I like to give Alfalfa pellets (1-2 scoops using a 3qt feed scoop) and some sort of fat supplement, like milled flax (1 cup) or rice bran oil (1 cup), along with a vitamin supplement.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

If this mare is brand new to you; I would put her on an agressive deworming schedule and feed her good groceries for a couple of months before adding a weight gain supplement. Throwing too much at her too fast can result in 1.) founder and 2.) burning extra calories as energy - making her "hot". 

Most vet clinics web sites will have a deworming schedule posted that's appropiate for your area. Our recommended schedule is ivermectin 5X a year and a double dose of Quest in the fall. I *believe* that's because ivermectin is the best broad spectrum wormer, but there is one species (small strongles) that Quest does a better job on - the recommendation for the fall is because that's when that parasite is in it's encysted stage. But that's just my area in the US, check the recommendation for yours. Every 6 - 8 weeks is the norm here, I consider every 4 weeks to be an agressive schedule.


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## GoldRush (Dec 14, 2009)

I do a "panacur Purge" on new horses...5 straight days on Panacur (or SafeGuard) This gets all the buggies and eggs, breaking the life cycle. <Check with your vet to see what they reccommend>
Usually, this will aid a LOT in getting weight on. I agree, do this first, then wait a bit before adding supplements! A normal diet (I use half oat and half alfalfa) will put weight on safer than the gaining supplements, and is way more cost effective. Add a 'snack' in between the two main meals, a flake of hay or alfalfa/oat pellets, and that new pone will be up to ideal weight in no time!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

oh, as a side note on your mare, make sure to have her teeth checked straight away too. I had my mare floated three days after she got here - likely the main reason she got so underweight in the first place was her teeth being so bad.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Good Point, Indy! A big ol' Homer Simpson D'oh! on that one.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I have been thinking that she might need her teeth done. I'll have a look at them, but I'll have to wait till my next paycheck.lol. My dad has this HUGE (like maybe 1000 or more lbs) thing of an allstock feed. Would that help add weight on her?


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I have found that grain products have to be fed at higher rates to put weight on. IME, Alfalfa pellets and a fat source, like flax or oil, work better to put weight on, and you don't have to feed a ton of it. 

The MOST important thing to feed her is LOTS of high quality grass hay or timothy hay (or mixed hay). Start with that first, for a few days, then start slowly feeding her alfalfa pellets and fat, working your way up to 2 scoops of AP (using a 3qt feed scoop) and 1 cup of oil or flax. Add in a vitamin supplement and some probiotics after a week. Once she's up to a good weight, you can quit the probiotics and extra fat.

I have dealt with quite a few "skinny" horses and "hard keepers" and this has been, by FAR, the best way to get them up to weight safely, without making them hyper or changing the personality of the horse. 

Never overdose with Quest, especially on a thin horse of unknown health. You can cause impaction colic from a huge parasite die-off. Also, fenbendazole and oxibendazole dewormers are not effective, at all. The "power pack" 5-day treatment with them can cause stomach upset and negatively effect the beneficial bacteria in the gut, and it doesn't work any better than a single dose of Ivermectin. I would not recommend it.

The safest deworming for a horse of unknown deworming history is a double dose of Pyrantle Promate followed by Ivermectin in 4 weeks. That will clear out the majority of parasites without much risk of colic.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Quest may not be the best choice for this horse as an initial dewormer more because you say she is underweight rather than due to risk of impaction. In an adult horse, the risk of impaction colic from deworming isn't nearly as high as most people think. Impaction colic from deworming is more of a risk in horses under a year of age because they are likely to have a heavier parasite load due to being susceptible to ascarids which are LARGE worms. 

As for a double dose of pyrantel being less likely to cause an impaction colic than Quest, that's not really true either. You are going to be killing more than 90% of the adult parasites in the GI tract with either pyrantel or moxidectin so the risk of impaction is the same. 

I would recommend a fecal egg count if you know that this horse hasn't been dewormed in 3-4 months. Here in Texas we are in our high reinfection season so this is a good time to determine what kind of parasite load this horse normally carries so that you can plan a deworming program that is appropriate. And please don't go by all the old deworming plans that are posted online. Most of them are following the same old out-dated plan of rotating dewormers and deworming every 6-8 weeks---NOT a good plan at all.

Find out when this horse was last dewormed and with what. If it's been 3 months since she was dosed with ivermectin, do an FEC now if the last deworming was with Quest then you need to do the FEC 4 months later. If it was anything other than those and it's been more than 2 months then go ahead with an FEC. Then if your results are under 200 eggs per gram, you should only need to deworm this horse twice a year---spring and fall. If it's over 200 but under 500 eggs per gram, then you are going to want to deworm 3 times a year--spring, fall and once in the winter. If it's over 500 then you want to deworm 4 times a year--spring, fall and twice during the winter. In Texas, the summer weather serves to control parasite reinfection rates for adult horses so you don't need to deworm then. 

For weight gain, rather than supplements just go with a good quality forage fed free choice. And definitely get her teeth checked.

(And Luvs2Ride is exactly right IndyHorse, if you have been using fenbendazole in an adult horse you have likely NOT been effectively treating parasites. Ivermectin and moxidectin can both be used in pregnant mares and at least one of them should be used to control parasites.)


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## AlabamaHorseMom (Jan 20, 2010)

Indyhorse said:


> I can't say much about wormers, I've been use safeguard though because my mare was lactating/pregnant. I know a lot of people really don't like Quest, but I am not sure why.
> 
> As far as weightbuilding supplements, I had an underweight mare I got in July I started her with regular old Farnam's Weightbuilder, and then about December I switched her over to Omegatin, which I have seen GREAT results with, BTW, very happy with it. She was in the good by fall anyways, and now she has a nice shiny coat and rock hard hooves to boot. :lol:


I second Omegatin! I LOVE it, I have been using it for about 2 weeks solid on my Thoroughbred Rescue, and have seen GREAT results! Better than the WeightGain I was using. It's the best I've used for the money. 

On the wormer, I like EquiMax. Its an all in one and seems to work great. I've always heard you're supopsed to switch up Dewormers so I go back and forth between the Equimax, Jeffers Brand Dewormer (Because I live where the Jeffers Warehouse is), and also Quest. Which I think is almost the same as the Jeffers.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

AlabamaHorseMom said:


> On the wormer, I like EquiMax. Its an all in one and seems to work great. I've always heard you're supopsed to switch up Dewormers so I go back and forth between the Equimax, Jeffers Brand Dewormer (Because I live where the Jeffers Warehouse is), and also Quest. Which I think is almost the same as the Jeffers.


If you are talking about the Jeffers ivermectin, then you aren't really rotating. Just FYI. You are using 3 different names of dewormer but two are the same drug and the 3rd is in the same family. But that is neither here nor there because rotation is no longer recommended as necessary to treat all types of worms or as a big deal for preventing parasites from developing resistance. Resistance is already here and there is very very little room left for rotation, plus the dewormers on the market are all broad spectrum so you don't have to rotate to treat the common parasites of horses. 

The keys to preventing resistance are to deworm as infrequently as possible (2-4 times a year based upon the natural resistance to parasites of the particular horse being treated) and to be sure that you are dosing appropriately for the weight of your horse. Don't count on weigh tapes as they can be several hundred pounds off. Either use scales or measure and calculate your horse's weight.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Ryle said:


> (And Luvs2Ride is exactly right IndyHorse, if you have been using fenbendazole in an adult horse you have likely NOT been effectively treating parasites. Ivermectin and moxidectin can both be used in pregnant mares and at least one of them should be used to control parasites.)


Thanks for the heads up! I have ivermec on hand, I can give her that. Out of curiosity, I notice you said not to worm over-frequently. I do generally dose my adult horses once per season, but my vet had recommended worming my (now 10 month old) colt monthly until his first birthday, which I have been doing with the ivermec since he was 4 months. Is that still a recommended system? (my vet is sort of a good ol' boy....not sure how current a lot of his info is)


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

AlabamaHorseMom said:


> I second Omegatin! I LOVE it, I have been using it for about 2 weeks solid on my Thoroughbred Rescue, and have seen GREAT results! Better than the WeightGain I was using. It's the best I've used for the money.


I've had really good luck with it. Someone on here actually recommended it to me, I wish I could remember who so I could thank them properly  I've used it since and really seen a difference in over all body health, not just weight gain, with my mare.


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

IndyHorse, horses under the age of one are the ones where you do need to deworm regularly. Once a month is a common recommendation but you do NOT want to just use ivermectin. In young horses rotation is important because of the problems with strongyles becoming resistant to fenbendazole and pyrantel and ascarids becoming resistant to pyrantel and ivermectin. Many vets recommend that you rotate fenbendazole and ivermectin monthly in young horses so that if you do have resistant parasites of either type on your farm you still are treating them at least every other month.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I gave her about half of what she needed of the quest. Just cause I didnt want to shock her system. I think I'll try the Omegatin. How much does it cost?


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Cocosoya is a good fat product, and it's affordable. It's high in Omega 3 fatty acids, which are deficeint in most horses' diets.
Uckele Equine Nutrition

Rice bran oil and fortified wheat germ oil are also good, and both can be found at most Tractor Supply stores and feed stores.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

Dont mess around with deworming. You NEED to talk to your vet about it and get a fecal sample. Otherwise you'll just be wasting your money. 

My vet tells me not to use quest. So I dont, and I never have previously. You need to be more accurate with dosing it, and shes seen mouth ulcers from it.

For weight- add more forage. The cheepest thing you can try is adding flax or oil to the diet. I like canola, but regular corn should be ok as well. I go through about 2-3 bags of 50lb flax a year with two horses.


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## AlabamaHorseMom (Jan 20, 2010)

Lonestar22 said:


> I gave her about half of what she needed of the quest. Just cause I didnt want to shock her system. I think I'll try the Omegatin. How much does it cost?


Tractor Supply carries the 20 pound bucket for $25. 

I feed two scoops along with grain, a little extra hoof supplement, and a joint supplment. Oh and Corn Oil too. 
Also, Hay Goes a Long Way! My boys are getting about half a bale of coastal hay a day each.

ALSO I read somewhere (Probably in some various Magazine) that Hay should be fed BEFORE Grain, since it digested best in the Hind Gut. Feeding Grain Before hay forces the grain to pushed into the intestines where it isnt digested as well, and nutrients are not as absorbed. This is also good for the winter since digesting Hay creates more heat than Grain.


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## AlabamaHorseMom (Jan 20, 2010)

Just wanted to remind you to make any drastic diet changes slowly. I'm sure you know. Just wanted to put it out there.

Malnourished horses often have a lot of problems suddenly getting all this grain and supplements. My OTTB Got strictly Hay for the first 4 days. Then slowly added grain.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I just spent 20 mins in the freezing cold rain pullin hay for her off round bales. Thats all we have right now. Since we bale our own hay thats all we will prolly ever have unless I can convince my mom to buy me some square bales. Ok another question: I noticed she was limping today, so I take her out of her stall and onto our driveway (concrete) to watch her walk. Limp is gone. I trot her a little bit and she didn't limp (maybe a slight catch but I could have been imagining it) as soon as i put her back in her stall the limp is back.  ohhhkaayyy? I rode her yesterday and she felt fine. I did notice a slight awkwardness when we were in the mud, but I figured just the loose footing. Her stall is dirt and muddy at the doorway cause of all the rain. Think she might have some arthritis that acts up why there's alot of stress on her? Like the suction of the mud?


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Lonestar22 said:


> I gave her about half of what she needed of the quest. Just cause I didnt want to shock her system.


Please do not EVER do this! (sorry, I cannot stress this enough.) It is extremely important that you ALWAYS give a full dose of dewormer and most especially moxidectin because at this point it's the ONLY broad spectrum dewormer without any incidence of resistance. By giving less than the recommended dose, you leave parasites who are likely to be the breeders of the first generation of moxidectin resistant parasites. If you have a horse that you are worried about giving moxidectin to, start with Fenbendazole at the normal dose rather than giving moxidectin. It's very likely that you will already be dealing with resistant strongyles to Fenbendazole and so you won't get as large a kill as if you used a more effective drug.


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