# Friesian crosses



## my2geldings

I just had the chance to see a great musical ride that had purebred Friesian horses in it, and it was beautiful to watch. After the show, I started to wonder how many Friesian crosses there might be out there?
I've always preferred purebred bred horses BUT could their be some great benefits to cross breeding Friesians with other breeds of horses? Friesians have such a different gate and a little different confirmation than most breeds out there. 
I would love to see photos of Friesian crosses if we have any of you know of some. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## horseylover1_1

Me! I gotta run to work but will be spamming this thread with pics of my girl


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## ApuetsoT

Fresian crosses are a carp shoot. As you say, they are very different horses, build wise. This doesn't cross well generally on hoses who are of a different type. 

That being said. Ive seen some gorgeous ones. A buckskin Qh cross. To. Die. For. I know an Arab who does quite well.


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## LoriF

I like them, a lot. That being said, they have to be crossed right. Here is a pic of my 1/2 friesian 1/2 saddlebred with her baby which is half lusitano


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## horseylover1_1

Friesian crosses are an interesting "breed" because there really isn't a certain trait that people are necessarily breeding for. Or at least, everyone crosses them for a different reason. The biggest problem with Friesian cross breeding is there are way too many backyard breeders that reason "I need to breed my mare to a Friesian stallion because anything with Friesian in it is worth a lot of money!" Nope. They usually end up with a wonky looking foal because the mare had no business being bred to a Friesian (or more often than not... any horse...)

As you'd expect, the more "Friesian" the cross looks, the more they cost. I have seen some 1/2 and even 3/4 Friesians that don't really have that look to them. They look more like the other breed or a Friesian with really bad conformation. 

Obviously I am biased but I love them. My baby is 2/3 Friesian and 1/3 Appaloosa and I love her. She is starting to get some color on her. So it'll be interesting to see how she turns out. You can see some of her sire's offspring at the link below. Lots of crosses. His babies are all beautiful, he really is an exceptional sire. 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/GraceandBeautyFarms/photos/?tab=album&album_id=302875499895328


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## Rainaisabelle

I am buying a Friesian X foal in August, these are purpose bred Friesian Xs and they're bred as sport horses to much more athletic breeds such as QHs, TBs, WBs etc every single one I have seen come from them is amazing and has gone on to do almost every discipline. They have this beautiful paint X that does dressage and hes amazing! I love him haha to bad he isn't for sale!


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## Avna

Could someone tell me the point of breeding an un-athletic breed like a Friesian to an athletic breed? I'm just not getting it.


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## Rainaisabelle

Avna said:


> Could someone tell me the point of breeding an un-athletic breed like a Friesian to an athletic breed? I'm just not getting it.


In a lot of Xs I have seen of a Friesian bred to an athletic horse is you get the size and the bone (chunky?) and but also the athleticism or leaness of a TB. It's like breeding a clydie to a TB it's not everyone's cup of tea but you get some excellent Xs


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

I'll have to fish up some pictures later, but I know a very handsome 1/2 Friesian 1/2 QH gelding. He looks pretty similar to this


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## Avna

Rainaisabelle said:


> In a lot of Xs I have seen of a Friesian bred to an athletic horse is you get the size and the bone (chunky?) and but also the athleticism or leaness of a TB. It's like breeding a clydie to a TB it's not everyone's cup of tea but you get some excellent Xs


Ok, I see what you mean. Yep, not my cup of tea at all.


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## LoriF

I have not met one owner of a friesian or friesian cross that has said, "Yeah, I thought I loved them but after owning one I've changed my mind". There might be one or two out there but I have not met them. 

My 1/2 friesian mare is very athletic and so is her sire. I really can't think of any breed that is not athletic. Maybe the akhal-teke. They do not look very athletic to me but I really don't know that as I've never experienced them.

I can also find really poor examples of any breed in about five minutes time that had no business hitting the ground in the first place. With some breeds these badly conformed specimens are actually being shown and bred.

Honestly, I've ridden other horses that are supposed to be great examples of the breed and comparing riding them to my mare is like comparing riding in a jeep wrangler in the outback to a cadillac sedan on the open highway. Also, Friesian horses from my experience have gentle souls with a great work ethic. My mare can be lazy at times but I'm not doing much with her right now and she's out of shape, so I can't really blame her for that. Yet, she stills loves to go, she still loves to figure out what new thing I'm asking of her, she still has beautiful movement, and she still has a great attitude.

In my opinion, friesians are wonderful horses and they are beautiful. They have a bold and majestic way of moving that I find very inspiring. And, they would still be beautiful if you shaved them bald.


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## Rainaisabelle

Avna said:


> Ok, I see what you mean. Yep, not my cup of tea at all.


Not sure if I made any sense just then.. it's really a personal choice thing. You can get percentage friesians 25%, 50%, 75% but I'm not entirely sure how that one works exactly. The ones from the stud I'm buying from are lovely crosses and they're all out competing in western, carriage driving, dressage, eventing, show jumping, hacking etc


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## horseylover1_1

Avna said:


> Could someone tell me the point of breeding an un-athletic breed like a Friesian to an athletic breed? I'm just not getting it.


Well a lot of Friesian x's are to get color. The goal is to get a Friesian looking horse with color. Why people breed them to paint horses and not just breed Gypsy Vanners I probably will never understand but I guess people with a paint mare think that it'd be cheaper to breed to a Friesian stud than buy a Gypsy. 

Personally I like the hairiness of the Friesians. So what I was looking for was something a little sportier but still with the Friesian look.


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## Avna

horseylover1_1 said:


> Well a lot of Friesian x's are to get color. The goal is to get a Friesian looking horse with color. Why people breed them to paint horses and not just breed Gypsy Vanners I probably will never understand but I guess people with a paint mare think that it'd be cheaper to breed to a Friesian stud than buy a Gypsy.
> 
> Personally I like the hairiness of the Friesians. So what I was looking for was something a little sportier but still with the Friesian look.


Clearly I should bow out of this thread as breeding for looks ("the Friesian look", "ooh what a pretty color") as opposed to performance, are two things I have particular problems with.


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## ApuetsoT

LoriF said:


> I really can't think of any breed that is not athletic. Maybe the akhal-teke. They do not look very athletic to me but I really don't know that as I've never experienced them.


Akhal Tekes are ridiculously athletic. They are like TBs, but with a healthy dosing of cat. Check out their history and you'll see why, everything from war horses to racing. I've wanted one for a while.


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## Avna

Friesians are, as a breed (individuals are going to vary of course), famous for poor stamina, genetic problems, difficult gaits, and lack of excellence at any discipline. To me, that could be called "not athletic". Other types that are "not athletic" would be lines of horses bred for looks alone, like halter bred Arabs and Quarter Horses. 

Akhal-Tekes are just about the dead opposite -- they look the way they do because of the work they were bred for (distance and speed in desert conditions). I agree they are weirdly extreme looking but that's because they were bred for extreme performance in extreme conditions, not because somebody said, we like this look. 

I have a big animus against Looks First breed selection, because I come from the dog world where this is a ubiquitous practice, and I've seen the horrors. Breeding for looks in that world is well advanced in the process of destroying the 'sport' of purebred show dogs. This isn't hyperbole; the American Kennel Club registry numbers have been in free fall for the past decade and show no signs of changing trajectory. 

Okay, now I'm really leaving this thread.


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## LoriF

horseylover1_1 said:


> Well a lot of Friesian x's are to get color. The goal is to get a Friesian looking horse with color. Why people breed them to paint horses and not just breed Gypsy Vanners I probably will never understand but I guess people with a paint mare think that it'd be cheaper to breed to a Friesian stud than buy a Gypsy.
> 
> Personally I like the hairiness of the Friesians. So what I was looking for was something a little sportier but still with the Friesian look.


I don't think people breed friesians to paints because they don't want to pay for a gypsy vanner. Gypsy vanners don't even look like friesians nor do they ride the same. I think they want a friesian with color. People have imported friesians to crossbreed and sell the foals. It would have been a lot cheaper to just get a gypsy if that is what they wanted. 

I didn't buy a friesian cross because it was cheaper than the purebred, I bought her because I liked her. Although I do love the breed and think that they are wonderful horses, I also love the crosses too. Really, my mare isn't any hairier than a lot of mustangs. If hair is what I was concerned with I would have just went and adopted a mustang with lots of hair.


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## Dehda01

Avna said:


> Friesians are, as a breed (individuals are going to vary of course), famous for poor stamina, genetic problems, difficult gaits, and lack of excellence at any discipline. To me, that could be called "not athletic". Other types that are "not athletic" would be lines of horses bred for looks alone, like halter bred Arabs and Quarter Horses.
> 
> Akhal-Tekes are just about the dead opposite -- they look the way they do because of the work they were bred for (distance and speed in desert conditions). I agree they are weirdly extreme looking but that's because they were bred for extreme performance in extreme conditions, not because somebody said, we like this look.
> 
> I have a big animus against Looks First breed selection, because I come from the dog world where this is a ubiquitous practice, and I've seen the horrors. Breeding for looks in that world is well advanced in the process of destroying the 'sport' of purebred show dogs. This isn't hyperbole; the American Kennel Club registry numbers have been in free fall for the past decade and show no signs of changing trajectory.
> 
> Okay, now I'm really leaving this thread.


Form follows function in all breeds whether you are talking horse or dog. 

I own my arabs for one purpose... my friesian for another very different purpose. 

I happen to really love the baroque high school dressage look of old tapestries... a gorgeous cubby horse with a laid back shoulder, ability to collect and higher neck set. 

I have done dressage with warmbloods, draft crosses, iberians, friesians and friesian x's. 

Now the pure Friesians do tire sooner, so you need to alter you training meathods, but they tend to have such an amateur friendly temperament that they are SO fun to work with and play with. They just give and give if you know how to ask. I just find it can be easy to overface them and skip steps which can get you in trouble because they as such good sports but need the full education and you shouldn't speed through even if you think they are absorbing everything. 

The friesian crosses I have worked with have been purpose bred to increase heart size/endurance and athletic ability. (Arabs and warmbloods) The crosses tend to have good mind, more bone and breadth of body and the other half still comes through. 

There is nothing wrong if a person likes a "type" of horse. I like many types of horses! They each serve a different purpose.


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## Rainaisabelle

Avna said:


> Clearly I should bow out of this thread as breeding for looks ("the Friesian look", "ooh what a pretty color") as opposed to performance, are two things I have particular problems with.


I never said anything about looks when you asked just pointing that out. 

Yes they are known for high inbreeding but it really depends how they're bred and where. I'm in Australia we don't have many Friesian stallions and they're only allowed/recommended to breed to a select few pure Friesian mares who have to be unrelated to them considering the pure Friesian gene pool is quite small in Australia hence the making of Friesian Xs. 


Now like I said Xs are more athletic then their pure counterparts and some only have the chunkiness of the pure Friesian but the athleticism of mare/stallion they're bred to which leads them to be a very versatile cross. If you were looking to get up to the highest levels you probably wouldn't pick them but they're extremely intelligent, loyal and laid back animals.


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## Avna

Many people love Friesians for their temperaments and nothing wrong with that!


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## DanteDressageNerd

Ive never been a Friesian fan. I've never been particularly attracted to their looks, gaits, or how they ride. I don't dislike Friesians, I'm just not drawn to them. I've ridden a few and crosses but they're not really my cup of tea. However from what I've seen/experienced they are very amateur friendly and overall very affectionate with their people and love attention and can be sweet.

Most of the crosses I've ridden (georgian grande, tbxfriesian, paint x friesian, etc all different friesian sires) were dumb as a post or had serious health problems and a lateral canter. Does this go for all friesians and friesian crosses, no because every horse is an individual but for me they weren't sharp enough mentally or physically. I didn't enjoy the ride, I like a quicker thinking, sharper horse.

Ive also seen a few friesian crosses Ive liked who were quite athletic, eager to please and smart. It just depends. Every horse is different and depending on the cross and the mare/stallion used can produce vastly different results. 

But they are good horses, it just depends on the rider, what they like, their goals and what they enjoy.


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## Dehda01

I haven't found them dumb at all. I find them much more biddable than the tbs and warmbloods I work with all the time. They are colder working and need a bit more time for information to go from question to response than a modern horse. But the modern friesian lines are much faster thinking horses than the baroque style. 

There is a reason that trick trainers and entertainment loves them. They pick up tricks and enjoy working with people. 

I love all of my horses. My arabs are my first loves. But I have had a love affair with the friesian breed since I was a little girl and they are FUN to ride and work with!!! 

The body type, the MIND and the attention you get


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## horseylover1_1

Avna said:


> I have a big animus against Looks First breed selection, because I come from the dog world where this is a ubiquitous practice, and I've seen the horrors. Breeding for looks in that world is well advanced in the process of destroying the 'sport' of purebred show dogs. This isn't hyperbole; the American Kennel Club registry numbers have been in free fall for the past decade and show no signs of changing trajectory.


Not trying to derail this thread but I agree with this 100%. There is a particular breed of dog that is known for not being able to give birth naturally, along MANY other significant health issues that are a trait to the breed, yet people keep breeding them. I don't get it. It's not fair to the animal. People will knowingly breed a dog with bad genetic traits because it's a purebred dog. Nothing wrong with looks or personality. But too many people are in it for the money and/or looks, NOT bettering the breed in terms of health.


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## Avna

horseylover1_1 said:


> Not trying to derail this thread but I agree with this 100%. There is a particular breed of dog that is known for not being able to give birth naturally, along MANY other significant health issues that are a trait to the breed, yet people keep breeding them. I don't get it. It's not fair to the animal. People will knowingly breed a dog with bad genetic traits because it's a purebred dog. Nothing wrong with looks or personality. But too many people are in it for the money and/or looks, NOT bettering the breed in terms of health.


Yes, health is waaaaay down the list. But the main problem is closed studbooks -- there is in reality no way to breed away from the piled up genetic problems. I have come to hate the very idea of closed studbooks. 

In the horse world, there are solutions, because a crossbred may be just the ticket for a substantial group of people, and they are not devalued in the same way. Many very fine horses are crosses. As this thread is a demonstration of.


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## trailhorserider

Avna said:


> Yes, health is waaaaay down the list. But the main problem is closed studbooks -- there is in reality no way to breed away from the piled up genetic problems. I have come to hate the very idea of closed studbooks.
> 
> In the horse world, there are solutions, because a crossbred may be just the ticket for a substantial group of people, and they are not devalued in the same way. Many very fine horses are crosses. As this thread is a demonstration of.


I feel the same way! If purebred "anythings" were perfect, I could say, yes, a purebred horse, dog, cat, whatever is better. But in many cases isn't not. Just look at halter stock horses. Just about any grade horse is better, in terms of being a useful riding horse. And those purebred cats with the smashed faces make me cringe. I would rather have a common alley cat.

So until breeders of purebred animals decided they are actually breeding for a better, healthier animal, not just a typier, more extreme one, then I am all for grades horses and mutt cats and dogs. I do think you get some hybrid vigor with the crosses and some of the recessive diseases are less likely to show up because you are diluting the carriers, not doubling down on them. 

That was always one of my pet peeves on this forum, actually. A lot of people seemed to be down on grades and feeling like they shouldn't be bred. So I'm glad to hear I am not alone in my thinking.


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## Avna

"Pure" breeding is nothing but a 19th century Victorian livestock marketing concept taken up by the rising middle class craze for "showing" animals (which was a development of rural fat stock shows). The problem is that flies in the face of genetic science. There is obviously great value in human selection and recording of breeding stock, but that is quite separate from an organization-enforced "breed purity". I've done a lot of reading on the subject.


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## LoriF

@ApuestoT;

So you got me to looking at Akhal Tekes and the first thing that came to my mind was "I never had a childhood fantasy of riding black beauty but I always did think it would be really cool to ride a fire breathing dragon" lol this is as close as it would get. Look at that face. I love it. Their body style is odd to me though but not in a bad way.

And, to not totally sabotage the thread, I don't think these guys would cross very well with a friesian.


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## Change

The Friesian is a 'light draft' horse that is strong, gentle, and willing, making it a good carriage horse or battle horse. It wasn't intended or designed to be a using horse. Because of their fancy look, though, Hollywood couldn't resist glamorizing them through movies like Zorro. 

Xs, on the other hand, are often the best of both worlds, especially if breeding for purpose. Breeding to a Vanner would just be producing a heavier boned, hairier, possibly black horse. No gain. Bred to a TB or WB, you have a potential athlete with the bone structure to withstand cross-country or jumping. Bred to a Morgan, you get a steam-engine. The potential crosses, and the reasons for them, are boundless, which is why they call those crosses Sport Horses. 

I love the look of the Friesian, but would never buy one to use as a cow-horse or trail horse. That's not what they are. I would gladly buy a matched pair (if they weren't so over-priced) for my sister's carriage company. What would be fancier than a Friesian team pulling an antique hearse or a wedding carriage? I wouldn't turn away from a using horse/Friesian cross if it had the aptitude and stamina of the using-side of his breeding. 


As an aside to the thought of breeding an Akhal Teke to a Friesian? I'm not sure what you'd get. The Friesian is short backed and compact. An Akhal Teke is long-backed and supple and designed for distance. Chances are you aren't going to get the happy medium; one parent's genes will win out in each instance and the extremes of each are just too far out there. Not a breeding I'd be willing to gamble on (especially considering the price of either breed!).


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## LoriF

horseylover1_1 said:


> Well a lot of Friesian x's are to get color. The goal is to get a Friesian looking horse with color. Why people breed them to paint horses and not just breed Gypsy Vanners I probably will never understand but I guess people with a paint mare think that it'd be cheaper to breed to a Friesian stud than buy a Gypsy.
> 
> Personally I like the hairiness of the Friesians. So what I was looking for was something a little sportier but still with the Friesian look.


Don't feel bad about liking the hair. 
For some reason you can say "I love the spots on an appy" or " I love the markings of a paint" and it's no big deal. It's just part of what they are. But, as soon as you mention the "H" word about friesians, people fall apart and act like it's the only thing that there is to like about them. Pff, go figure.


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## Fimargue

Some/many? of the Akhal Tekes we have on the market here look just like light TBs.

I don't like Friesians, but we breed Warlanders and I'm eager to see what the babies will become.
@LoriF - Lol. That horse reminds me of Thestrals in Harry Potter.


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## ApuetsoT

A Teke fresian cross would he a frankenhorse. It would have probably get a long back and weak hind quarters, and a messibe shoulder. 

A lot of the modern sport Tekes are looking like tbs. Have you seen Kambarbay? Omg... 

I want a buckskin. I actually live a couple hours away from one of the bigger north American breeders, and a days drive from another one.


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## LoriF

ApuetsoT said:


> A Teke fresian cross would he a frankenhorse. It would have probably get a long back and weak hind quarters, and a messibe shoulder.
> 
> A lot of the modern sport Tekes are looking like tbs. Have you seen Kambarbay? Omg...
> 
> I want a buckskin. I actually live a couple hours away from one of the bigger north American breeders, and a days drive from another one.


I just googled him to take a peak. He is not what I envision when I think of a Akhal Teke. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has no knowledge what so ever about them. It would be interesting to see what the original horses of the nomadic peoples who prized them so much really looked like.


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## ApuetsoT

LoriF said:


> I just googled him to take a peak. He is not what I envision when I think of a Akhal Teke. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who has no knowledge what so ever about them. It would be interesting to see what the original horses of the nomadic peoples who prized them so much really looked like.


He is very modern. Super Star is another very modern type. 

Hard to know exactly what the nomadic ones were like since the breed went through a bottleneck and TB blood was introduced.


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## Fimargue

Now I'm very confused - on top of looking Thoroughbred-y, these stallions also remind me of some of the PREs. I may have fallen in the same trap as people often do with Arabs, thinking that the dished face showy type is the norm.

This is one of the sales sites in France: https://www.equirodi.com/annonces/chevaux-a-vendre/akhal-teke.htm

And to the original subject. In France we a have studbook for Arabo-Frison, which is Arabian x Friesian. Here is one breeders: Arabo Frison : Elevage des Brumières » Chevaux de l?élevage - I love their black Arabian stallion.

One of the colts we had: SF x Friesian


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## my2geldings

horseylover1_1 said:


> Friesian crosses are an interesting "breed" because there really isn't a certain trait that people are necessarily breeding for. Or at least, everyone crosses them for a different reason. The biggest problem with Friesian cross breeding is there are way too many backyard breeders that reason "I need to breed my mare to a Friesian stallion because anything with Friesian in it is worth a lot of money!" Nope. They usually end up with a wonky looking foal because the mare had no business being bred to a Friesian (or more often than not... any horse...)
> 
> As you'd expect, the more "Friesian" the cross looks, the more they cost. I have seen some 1/2 and even 3/4 Friesians that don't really have that look to them. They look more like the other breed or a Friesian with really bad conformation.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/pg/GraceandBeautyFarms/photos/?tab=album&album_id=302875499895328


...and thats what my feelings have been this far. It seems to me IMO that its luck of the draw if you're going to end up having a nice looking horse when you start cross breeding to friesians because their conformation and necks are just so different from most breed. Its difficult to gage in which situation you will get a nice offspring. I don't have any experiences with it personally thats why I wanted to see and hear what others have seen or done. I do feel Friesians are gorgeous animals.


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## horseylover1_1

my2geldings said:


> ...and thats what my feelings have been this far. It seems to me IMO that its luck of the draw if you're going to end up having a nice looking horse when you start cross breeding to friesians because their conformation and necks are just so different from most breed. Its difficult to gage in which situation you will get a nice offspring. I don't have any experiences with it personally thats why I wanted to see and hear what others have seen or done. I do feel Friesians are gorgeous animals.


The best Friesian crosses I've seen are QH/APHA/Appy/Arab crosses. Kind of the "all around" horses. Most friesian/draft crosses are weird looking in my opinion. However that brings up another discussion point... there are many different types of Friesians. You got the drafty looking ones and the sportier looking ones. And other than the hair and color, they don't really look alike. So a lot of it will depend on the individual Friesian. Again that's just my opinion. I'm sure some people think Friesian draft crosses are beautiful. And that's the beautiful thing about crossbreeding/ horse breeds in general. There is something for everyone. As long as you are breeding healthy horses, does it really matter what the next person think as long as there is a market for what you're selling OR you plan on keeping the horse for yourself? 

I hope whoever ends up with my filly's dam (she is for sale) keeps breeding her to Friesians, because she throws some beautiful babies. It's definitely a cross that works.


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## Rainaisabelle

Check out mystic Friesian sport horses they have some beautiful crosses and are bred specifically.


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## LoriF

horseylover1_1 said:


> The best Friesian crosses I've seen are QH/APHA/Appy/Arab crosses. Kind of the "all around" horses. Most friesian/draft crosses are weird looking in my opinion. However that brings up another discussion point... there are many different types of Friesians. You got the drafty looking ones and the sportier looking ones. And other than the hair and color, they don't really look alike. So a lot of it will depend on the individual Friesian. Again that's just my opinion. I'm sure some people think Friesian draft crosses are beautiful. And that's the beautiful thing about crossbreeding/ horse breeds in general. There is something for everyone. As long as you are breeding healthy horses, does it really matter what the next person think as long as there is a market for what you're selling OR you plan on keeping the horse for yourself?
> 
> I hope whoever ends up with my filly's dam (she is for sale) keeps breeding her to Friesians, because she throws some beautiful babies. It's definitely a cross that works.


That just goes to show how we all like different things. I have only seen one Friesian/Quarter horse cross that I liked. The rest, not so much. Same with the Friesian/Arab crosses, they're ok but I can leave them. And I love Arabs. 

What I've consistently liked is the Friesian/Saddlebred crosses (Georgian Grande) but the saddlebred lines have been older not the more modern looking ones with the long giraffe necks and long bodies. I've seen quite a few nice Friesian/Thoroughbred crosses and I've also consistently liked the Friesian/Iberian crosses (Warlander). 

But, you know what? I don't particularly care for peas either. It doesn't mean that they should not exist on a buffet table. I'll just pass them by and go for the brussels sprouts. What? Someone doesn't like brussels sprouts?


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## Firefly92

Avna said:


> Could someone tell me the point of breeding an un-athletic breed like a Friesian to an athletic breed? I'm just not getting it.


But Friesians are not un-athletic?









The only problem they might have is poor stamina, and this is why a ton of professional drivers over here(in Germany) cross Friesians with Arabian horses.






Thoroughbred and warmblood crosses work out well too, if they were selected properly, but you have that same "problem" with breeding everywhere, not only cross breeding.

I don't know how it is overseas but especially in the Netherlands the breeding requirements are pretty hard and they are on their way to producing a strong, good working sporthorse.


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## Avna

Firefly92 said:


> .....
> 
> I don't know how it is overseas but especially in the Netherlands the breeding requirements are pretty hard and they are on their way to producing a strong, good working sporthorse.


I am glad that there are people who are working to preserve and improve this breed. In the US, where they are a fad breed and you can get three to five times as much for a weak-built, genetically-compromised, difficult-gaited Friesian than you can for an ordinary good sound Quarter Horse, there is not very much incentive to cull. 

I'm heavily biased, in everything, toward practicality, soundness, and versatility, which this breed does not demonstrate, at least in the US. But I ain't queen of anything except my own internet posts . . .


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## Firefly92

I mean.
No Friesian will ever be a 4*-Eventer or a perfect endurance horse but they have never been bred for that.
They were both driving horses on one hand and noble and easy riding horses who, thanks to their Iberian ancestry, have always had a good will to please and a talent for dressage. 
But even then, you can still jump them or go on a short endurance ride, every healthy and properly trained horse can, so 80% of english/german style equestrians would be absolutely fine with a Friesian.


There is only one big problem I see with pure-bred Friesians, the focus on the black color and thus the massive inbreeding, which is why I am in favor of professional cross-breeding.


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## Dehda01

The KFPS is really pulling for a much more modern and athletic friesian now. They do. It want the barocque type any longer, but want the sport type now.


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## Rainaisabelle

If you're looking for a completely upper level horse in some events then Friesian Xs are the wrong type but they are athletic horses and can go far in most disciplines.


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## my2geldings

Fimargue said:


> Now I'm very confused - on top of looking Thoroughbred-y, these stallions also remind me of some of the PREs. I may have fallen in the same trap as people often do with Arabs, thinking that the dished face showy type is the norm.
> 
> This is one of the sales sites in France: https://www.equirodi.com/annonces/chevaux-a-vendre/akhal-teke.htm
> 
> And to the original subject. In France we a have studbook for Arabo-Frison, which is Arabian x Friesian. Here is one breeders: Arabo Frison : Elevage des Brumières » Chevaux de l?élevage - I love their black Arabian stallion.
> 
> One of the colts we had: SF x Friesian


Such an interesting mix! je vien de la France as but I had never heard of this breeder. Some gorgeous horses for sure.


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## Fimargue

@my2geldings - I think she is also relatively new in the business. The breed sure is popular right now.


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## danny67

Avna said:


> you can get three to five times as much for a weak-built, genetically-compromised, difficult-gaited Friesian than you can for an ordinary good sound Quarter Horse.


I'm guilty. :-?


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## my2geldings

I know right! They are a beautiful breed. Some things I dont like about them but generally speaking they are a beautiful breed of horse. What worries me is how difficult it can be to have a good cross. I havent seen a lot of cross bred Friesians that havent turned out nice:-? and dont get me wrong it might just be I've had bad luck with the ones I've seen, but thats what worries me.


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## Rainaisabelle

my2geldings said:


> I know right! They are a beautiful breed. Some things I dont like about them but generally speaking they are a beautiful breed of horse. What worries me is how difficult it can be to have a good cross. I havent seen a lot of cross bred Friesians that havent turned out nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and dont get me wrong it might just be I've had bad luck with the ones I've seen, but thats what worries me.



Not trying to be mean or anything and this may not offend anyone this is just my opinion. 

The crosses that I have seen in America can be really concerning, I'm not saying the ones in Australia are top grade either but I wouldn't buy any of the ones I have seen for sale in America. I have see some amazing ones in Australia though that have gone on to compete and win in dressage and go all the way to Grand Prix but in saying that it really depends on so many factors.


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## danny67

I bought this over-priced 3/4 mare. Notice the dimples in her flanks. After 2 years still trying to build that up. She rears because it is a lot of effort to work under saddle and it makes her unhappy.


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## TbsandMalinois

LoriF said:


> I have not met one owner of a friesian or friesian cross that has said, "Yeah, I thought I loved them but after owning one I've changed my mind". There might be one or two out there but I have not met them.
> 
> My 1/2 friesian mare is very athletic and so is her sire. I really can't think of any breed that is not athletic. Maybe the akhal-teke. They do not look very athletic to me but I really don't know that as I've never experienced them.
> 
> I can also find really poor examples of any breed in about five minutes time that had no business hitting the ground in the first place. With some breeds these badly conformed specimens are actually being shown and bred.
> 
> Honestly, I've ridden other horses that are supposed to be great examples of the breed and comparing riding them to my mare is like comparing riding in a jeep wrangler in the outback to a cadillac sedan on the open highway. Also, Friesian horses from my experience have gentle souls with a great work ethic. My mare can be lazy at times but I'm not doing much with her right now and she's out of shape, so I can't really blame her for that. Yet, she stills loves to go, she still loves to figure out what new thing I'm asking of her, she still has beautiful movement, and she still has a great attitude.
> 
> In my opinion, friesians are wonderful horses and they are beautiful. They have a bold and majestic way of moving that I find very inspiring. And, they would still be beautiful if you shaved them bald.


Little late to the thread lol
Saw your comment about akhal teke, and don't understand where you don't see the athleticism in them? They probably or one of the most athletic breeds out there, orginally bred for extreme long distant races in the desert over seas! Lol maybe we just have different opinions on athleticism .. 
Sorry they are just one of my favorite breeds, and eventually I'll get one one day











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## ApuetsoT

Tekes are crazy athletic. They just don't conform to our modern idea of conformation, but they have a long history of being war horses, racing, endurance, they're using horses. Vs Fresians who were bred for style.


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## SilverMaple

Avna said:


> I am glad that there are people who are working to preserve and improve this breed. In the US, where they are a fad breed and you can get three to five times as much for a weak-built, genetically-compromised, difficult-gaited Friesian than you can for an ordinary good sound Quarter Horse, there is not very much incentive to cull.
> 
> I'm heavily biased, in everything, toward practicality, soundness, and versatility, which this breed does not demonstrate, at least in the US. But I ain't queen of anything except my own internet posts . . .


This. Most of the ones in the US are BYB specials that are long as a bus with a weak back and questionable gaits, but hey, they're floofy and pretty, so breed, breed, breed. And they'll breed to anything that moves and think the baby is worth thousands....

The quality Friesians are impressive, lovely animals. However, there are a lot of non-quality ones out there, and they are the ones breeding willy nilly. The Friesian Cross is the new 'designer dog' of the horse world.


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## ChristianHorseLover

what does TB mean?


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## TbsandMalinois

ChristianHorseLover said:


> what does TB mean?


Thoroughbred

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## EstrellaandJericho

Thanks for this thread!! I am really enjoying reading it. Estrella is still very young and it would be no time soon, but I've considered if she's a nice prospect breeding her to a friesian/warlander. I'm mulling over a lot of ideas, her being a cross herself, and since I have nothing but time I'm giving it the time. That, and there are so many variables to me actually breeding her. This has been a very informative thread! The other consideration is breeding her to another andalusian or Spanish breed. I would keep the baby, of course.


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## LoriF

SilverMaple said:


> This. Most of the ones in the US are BYB specials that are long as a bus with a weak back and questionable gaits, but hey, they're floofy and pretty, so breed, breed, breed. And they'll breed to anything that moves and think the baby is worth thousands....
> 
> The quality Friesians are impressive, lovely animals. However, there are a lot of non-quality ones out there, and they are the ones breeding willy nilly. The Friesian Cross is the new 'designer dog' of the horse world.


Well, maybe that is why every time that I ride my Friesian cross, I fall in love all over again. Her sire was a nice quality Stallion and her dam was a very nice quality Saddlebred and there was actually thought put into the breeding of those particular two.

Not everyone who loves friesians loves them because they are Floofy and I can't imagine anyone liking any breed of horse because they think that they are ugly and badly conformed. So, to each his own. I just find it a little insulting that mostly what people come up with to put the breed down is that people just like them because of their hair like that is all they have going for them.

Designer dog of the horse world? So what. almost every breed of dog started out as a mutt. If you can cross two or more breeds of an animal to create another breed that is desirable then great. Why not?

As far as the price tag? Well, that is pretty irrelevant. Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it. As long as there are people out there who want one so bad that they are willing to pay thousands, then I guess that is what they are worth. I guess that if one doesn't think that they are worth that then they don't really want one so the price is a non issue anyway.


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## ThoroughbredBug

A gal I know has a 3/4 Freisian 1/4 saddlebred yearling, sweet horse, 110% too smart for her own good. Attached a photo, she's an awkward little thing still lol I think she's coming up on 3. But starting to get weight on her back and whatnot and is doing very nicely. Been doing some work on the longlines as well if I remember correctly. Very very nice mover, registered, been trained from the ground up by since weaning by the lady who owns her.


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## AnitaAnne

I love the look of a Friesian!! They are what comes to mind when one thinks of the mount of a knight in shining armor!! 

Would love to own and ride a purebred Friesian in Dressage 

IMO the Friesians and lighter Percherons are the "light drafts" and much more athletic than the other drafts, especially the Belgians. 

Have never heard anyone before describe a Friesian as "un-athletic". 

Have a friend that crossed a couple of his TWH mares on a Friesian stallion and he is VERY HAPPY with the results! One gelding 17.1H looks more like a Friesian, one 16.3H mare a nice mixture between the two. Do believe he originally was trying to get some heavier TWH, but these both trot, lol! 

They both are trail ridden and used for mounted patrol work. Very nice horses that I plan to ride in a week or two. He wouldn't part with them for love or money!!


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## ShirtHotTeez

I sometimes worry about xbreeding. Too often not enough thought has been given to the result, and while professional breeders most probably test for all those known things that can go wrong I suspect most others don't. Just because you own a mare does not mean you should breed from it. 

At the moment in my country there is a 'type' of horse known as a Gisborne bred, from the Gisborne region. They are fetching very good money in an average market and are well regarded for stamina, sport, stock work, trekking, jumping and temperament. I am not sure what the main base of the breed is, haven't really looked into it. Some of them are real show quality looking animals. But some are so obscenely under-bred its not funny. And it shocks me that some people comment how beautiful the animal is when it is ewe necked or weak quartered!!

This is my mare, Inca, sold to me as part Friesian. I am inclined to believe that is so though I didn't care either way. I suspect her to have been x'd with standardbred because she paces, but could also be the local Northland 'bushbred' x for all I know. When you look at her you think 'underbred' and she is, but she looks a lot better now with some weight on and she is not fit. She is 16. She is unlikely to be a show horse, unless I ever learn to drive her, she is trained to it, but I'm not, yet!! But her nature is beautiful, and she does love attention.









View attachment 957273


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## QtrBel

I wouldn't say that Belgians are not athletic. You wouldn't want a weight lifter doing ballet and that is what the old style farm draft basically is. The newer lines were bred for competition and flashy road work. Lots more leg action and freedom of movement as they are not so muscle bound. Percherons are smaller, lighter (on average) and have quite a bit of spring and agility from Arabian influence. So yes on average a Perch will do better under saddle in the ring but there are exceptions with the Belgians.


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## AnitaAnne

QtrBel said:


> I wouldn't say that Belgians are not athletic. You wouldn't want a weight lifter doing ballet and that is what the old style farm draft basically is. The newer lines were bred for competition and flashy road work. Lots more leg action and freedom of movement as they are not so muscle bound. Percherons are smaller, lighter (on average) and have quite a bit of spring and agility from Arabian influence. So yes on average a Perch will do better under saddle in the ring but there are exceptions with the Belgians.


Very true! Sorry now I posted that! Belgians are awesome pulling and usually one of the gentlest horses around. 

I will change it to say non-athletic is not a good term to use with any breed


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## AnitaAnne

Do not know why the pictures from my prior post did not show up but trying again. 

17.1H Friesian/TWH gelding used on trails and mounted patrol work modelling my Barefoot Tahoe saddle


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## AnitaAnne

16.2-16.3H Friesian/TWH mare modelling my Barefoot Cheyenne saddle. (saddle is now sold) 

She has the same Friesian sire, different TWH dam as gelding above. She is a star at mounted patrol work and trail rides too. 

The two can also be driven as a team, so multipurpose!


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## QtrBel

Nice looking pair @AnitaAnne. 

How do you like the barefoot saddles?


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## AnitaAnne

QtrBel said:


> Nice looking pair @AnitaAnne.
> 
> How do you like the barefoot saddles?


Thank you! 

I LOVE my Barefoot Tahoe! But more important, horses seem to really love the Barefoot brand. My RMHA gelding choose the Brand, I choose the style. Rode in the Cheyenne model for a full year before buying the Tahoe. The Cheyenne is a size 2 and that was just a bit big for me. I prefer the smaller and deeper seat of the Tahoe. It is a size 1 with a seat riser and sheepskin seat. I have ridden on a lot of different size horses with it and fits them all. 

My friend's mare prefers it too, and I sold her the Arizona (western style). @knightrider bought the Cheyenne, and so far seems to love it.


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## AnitaAnne

Will add that both those Friesian crosses had the wide pommel in that same as I use on my 14.3H RMHA gelding and my 14.1H QH mare. The Friesian cross mare though has a wider back and lower withers than the gelding, so probably needed an extra wide pommel. 

They were also both ridden in a Barefoot Atlanta I have (for sale) with no pommel in it at all! They both rode fine in it! I did use a grippy bottom Haf pad with that saddle though to keep it secure.


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## QtrBel

Something new to look into. I want something lightweight with a deep seat that can fit a wide range of horses. Off to google...


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## knightrider

Yes, I am enjoying the Barefoot Cheyenne very much. I rode my dainty 13 hand Paso in it this morning and she and I did great with it.

Now, I will tell my Fresian story and hope I don't bore anyone who has already heard it. In 1956, my brother gave me a little book for Christmas called _The Observer's Book of Horses and Ponies_. In that book is a gorgeous photo of a Fresian. I thought then, and still think now when I see that photo, that that horse is the perfect knight's mount. When I started jousting with a professional jousting troupe in about 1982, I showed the picture of that Fresian to the owner of the troupe. He said, "Let's get some!!!"

I wrote to the Netherlands and got a lot of Fresian material, all in Dutch, but somewhere in the material, they had the name of a Fresian breeder in Ohio. So I wrote to them about getting a Fresian (or two, or five) for our joust show. They said they had a nice green broke 4 year old they would sell me for $500. I wrote back that our old gelding had cancer, and when he passed, I would like to get that horse. They wrote back and said if that horse was sold, they'd find me one like him for $500.

Before our old gelding passed away, the movie Ladyhawke came out. I went to see it on the very first day. As the movie ran on, I sank lower and lower in my seat, filled with despair. "That's an Andalusian," my companion said. "Nope," I said, "THAT'S a Fresian, and I will never be able to buy one now."

Our old gelding died, and when I wrote again to the Fresian breeders, the price was $15,000 for a yearling. Just as I expected.

Our jousting troupe owner often joked about us getting Fresians. He bought a black Percheron at the New Holland auction which had lovely action. I used to tease him and say, "Why do we need a Fresian? You got one!"

I still see that jousting troupe owner from time to time. He never has gotten any Fresians, but we like to laugh about how close we were to getting one.


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## knightrider

Double post


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## AnitaAnne

@knightrider what a funny yet sad story!! Imagine a green broke 4yr old Friesian for $500! I would have bought that horse in a heartbeat. 

Would think it was a scam ad these days! 
@QtrBel if you are interested in a treeless I have a few to choose from. PM me for info. I keep planning to post ads, but somehow keep forgetting!


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## LoriF

knightrider said:


> Yes, I am enjoying the Barefoot Cheyenne very much. I rode my dainty 13 hand Paso in it this morning and she and I did great with it.
> 
> Now, I will tell my Fresian story and hope I don't bore anyone who has already heard it. In 1956, my brother gave me a little book for Christmas called _The Observer's Book of Horses and Ponies_. In that book is a gorgeous photo of a Fresian. I thought then, and still think now when I see that photo, that that horse is the perfect knight's mount. When I started jousting with a professional jousting troupe in about 1982, I showed the picture of that Fresian to the owner of the troupe. He said, "Let's get some!!!"
> 
> I wrote to the Netherlands and got a lot of Fresian material, all in Dutch, but somewhere in the material, they had the name of a Fresian breeder in Ohio. So I wrote to them about getting a Fresian (or two, or five) for our joust show. They said they had a nice green broke 4 year old they would sell me for $500. I wrote back that our old gelding had cancer, and when he passed, I would like to get that horse. They wrote back and said if that horse was sold, they'd find me one like him for $500.
> 
> Before our old gelding passed away, the movie Ladyhawke came out. I went to see it on the very first day. As the movie ran on, I sank lower and lower in my seat, filled with despair. "That's an Andalusian," my companion said. "Nope," I said, "THAT'S a Fresian, and I will never be able to buy one now."
> 
> Our old gelding died, and when I wrote again to the Fresian breeders, the price was $15,000 for a yearling. Just as I expected.
> 
> Our jousting troupe owner often joked about us getting Fresians. He bought a black Percheron at the New Holland auction which had lovely action. I used to tease him and say, "Why do we need a Fresian? You got one!"
> 
> I still see that jousting troupe owner from time to time. He never has gotten any Fresians, but we like to laugh about how close we were to getting one.



I would have been sinking in my seat too, unless of course, I already had a pair. Then I would probably be hearing the sounds of the cash register just like other people did.

Regardless of why they have become so expensive in this country, or even whether they are worth it or not is still no reason to hate the breed with as much venom as some people seem to have for them. I also think that the people who thought that they could breed their poorly conformed mare to a friesian stallion and sell the resulting poorly conformed foal for thousands are out of luck and if anyone bought into that, well, bad on them. 

I still love my friesian cross and even better still is that I love riding her. There are people out there who are crossing the friesian with well thought out crosses and getting fantastic results. Better still is that the more common place that they become, their price will come down. I don't feel like I paid an arm and a leg for my mare, she was under three grand including her being shipped to me so I was happy with that. I don't believe that was a gigantic price for a young, nice, riding horse that I planned on keeping forever. I don't think that is a bad price for any breed of young, nice riding horse for that matter, I just happened to want the one that I've got because that is what I like.


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## my2geldings

ThoroughbredBug said:


> A gal I know has a 3/4 Freisian 1/4 saddlebred yearling, sweet horse, 110% too smart for her own good. Attached a photo, she's an awkward little thing still lol I think she's coming up on 3. But starting to get weight on her back and whatnot and is doing very nicely. Been doing some work on the longlines as well if I remember correctly. Very very nice mover, registered, been trained from the ground up by since weaning by the lady who owns her.


He's gorgeous! I would be curious to see how he turns out.


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## SilverMaple

By 'designer dog of the horse world' I meant that people are crossing Friesians willy nilly because it sells. Just like the 'doodle dog' craze that is now resulting in tons of badly-bred mixed dogs at shelters. A well-thought-out cross done for a purpose is not an issue. A cross done just because someone will pay big money for it because it's a current fad is. Bringing a life into the world without a clear goal in mind for that animal's purpose is rarely ever a good idea, particularly with horses. 

A friend bought a Friesian/Morgan mare for riding/driving. She is a very nice mare with good conformation and a good mind. She was a well-done cross with this goal in mind. No problems with that. Another gal I know has a Friesian/QH that is a conformational trainwreck-- he's got nearly every conformational fault you can think of, but was bred by a somewhat-local woman who got her hands on an unregistered Friesian stallion (unregistered for a reason-- no way this thing would pass inspection) and she picks up cheap mares at auction, breeds them all to the stallion, and sell the babies as weanlings for thousands as 'Friesian Sport Horses' and people buy them..... my friend ended up with Moose because her sister bought him on a whim with her tax refund and then realized she had no way to care for him, no place to keep him, and no money to pay for feeding him. *shakes head*


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## LoriF

SilverMaple said:


> By 'designer dog of the horse world' I meant that people are crossing Friesians willy nilly because it sells. Just like the 'doodle dog' craze that is now resulting in tons of badly-bred mixed dogs at shelters. A well-thought-out cross done for a purpose is not an issue. A cross done just because someone will pay big money for it because it's a current fad is. Bringing a life into the world without a clear goal in mind for that animal's purpose is rarely ever a good idea, particularly with horses.
> 
> A friend bought a Friesian/Morgan mare for riding/driving. She is a very nice mare with good conformation and a good mind. She was a well-done cross with this goal in mind. No problems with that. Another gal I know has a Friesian/QH that is a conformational trainwreck-- he's got nearly every conformational fault you can think of, but was bred by a somewhat-local woman who got her hands on an unregistered Friesian stallion (unregistered for a reason-- no way this thing would pass inspection) and she picks up cheap mares at auction, breeds them all to the stallion, and sell the babies as weanlings for thousands as 'Friesian Sport Horses' and people buy them..... my friend ended up with Moose because her sister bought him on a whim with her tax refund and then realized she had no way to care for him, no place to keep him, and no money to pay for feeding him. *shakes head*


I get what you are saying, I really do. But, to keep it in context of the thread, the idiotic things that some people do really has nothing to do with whether a friesian cross can be a nice horse or not. You can have a train wreck with a purebred of any given breed if the breedings are not thought out and done by people who couldn't care two sh*#&'s about the animals conformation and how their life is going to be. 
My niece in her younger, more stupid years bought a purebred husky because she liked them and had a small wad of money burning a hole in her pocket. Like your friends sister, no way to care for the animal and I wasn't coming to the rescue. She ended up placing the dog with a woman who has the means to care for him and deal with that kind of breed. It still doesn't have anything to do with the breed of dog. It has to do with a person doing stupid things without thinking to far into it. Like, not beyond next week.


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## SilverMaple

That's true, but right now, dilute colors in stock horses, anything that can be termed 'warmblood' and Friesians and Vanners are the current fad in the BYB equine marketplace (Fjords are probably next), and it's attracting people who think it's a quick way to make a buck-- pumping out colt after colt of questionable quality hoping to capitalize with no forethought on what the future of that animal will be, because the only thought behind it is the money to be made. I, and many others, have issues with that, regardless of what breed it is. 

It's the same thing that happened with the doodle-poo cross pups that are mixed breeds and sold for thousands, or the 'teacup miniature' purse dogs because they were the latest fad. No thought for the conformation or health to make a sound dog. No thought for the proper care for the breeding stock. No thought for health clearances and buyer checks to help ensure the pups would be healthy and have good homes. Nope, if you have a credit card, they have a dog for you!! Friesian crosses are part of the same fad in horses-- and horses, by their very nature, size, and care expenses are even more vulnerable to abuse and neglect or a bad end once they are no longer wanted by their owners.

I happen to love the look of the Gypsy Vanners. But I refuse to support a BYB pumping out colts strictly for money with no thought to the quality of the foal or the welfare of their broodmares, and the demand has driven the price of a well-bred weanling well up over the $5-$10K mark. So I likely won't ever get one. It's not that I don't like the Friesians or some of the crosses-- they're lovely (the good ones, anyway) but I see the same thing happening with them, and many are being bred specifically because they bring big bucks, not because they were bred for any viable reason other than a quick sale.


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## QtrBel

Thinking of this thread when I went to the feed store and there is an ad on the board for $1000 stud fee to any mare and will board until proven if you choose their Reinder 452 son to breed to.


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## tinyliny

@AnitaAnne are those Fresian/TWH crosses your horses?


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## Rocky13

I've got a Friesian/Morgan cross as he's a pretty boy 🙂


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