# English Rider Legs 'kicking' at Trot, Balance Problems?



## The Greener Side (Jun 28, 2011)

I personally, along with countless other riders I've seen share a similar equitation issue, when posting to the trot, instead of the leg and foot staying quiet against the horse's side, heel down, and steady, but not squeezing; the leg shoots outward away from the horse's side and back again creating a 'kicking' motion for lack of a better term to describe it. It's very unbalanced looking, and causes much aid confusion. 
For many years I've pondered what causes this, and why some riders do this and some don't. I've always assumed it was maybe due to an imbalance in the rider, or lack of muscle. However I've never really found a clear answer to this very common in lower level English riding. 
Care to put any thoughts to this? Or even what to practice to help, or work to improve the problem?
I do know that it is very irritating to the horse, and as a rider with this issue, know that I feel a level of imbalance, but I'm not sure exactly from where it stems from. 
From one rider to another: any beneficial input is greatly appreciated.  Thanks!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I don't know which kind of riders you've been looking at, but there should not be an obvious outward 'kick' when rising. Yes the leg should close when the rider sits. but it should not be a kick. 
What you're seeing is probably a side effect of poor rider balance, gripping with their knees/thighs and not engaging their core. In higher levels this can also be the case, sitting an extended trot on a huge moving warmblood can be incredibly difficult and often any rider tension will come out through slightly 'flapping' legs.


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## The Greener Side (Jun 28, 2011)

Flapping may be a better word. 
Best I can describe it without having video to demonstrate is at the heel where the obvious line from hind of the foot to the toe in the proper slope from heel to toe when commonly posting to the working trot instead of remaining quiet and within reason still from the spot it rests next to the horse regularly (by the girth next to the 4th rib etcetc) the heel pushes downwards further, the sole of the foot pushes outward away from the horse, and the toe tips further upwards. 
The suggestion of a weak core and pinching at the knee would make sense, and as common of a problem as pinching and weakness is it would concur with the commonness of the local level riding I'm surrounded by where the less experienced or just simply weaker rider may have symptoms like I described. 

The next question then: How to correct or head towards improving the issue?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

It sounds to me like you are trying to post by pushing yourself up out of the stirrups, rather than letting the movement of the horse push you up out of the saddle. If it were me, I would work on posting WITHOUT stirrups so I couldn't brace on them like that.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I was doing this, unaware I was doing this, ignorance is bliss right? I switched instructors a few years back, she had me ride with no stirrups, posting, doing all sorts of patterns and my homework was to come back for the next lesson having a quiet lower leg. I did my homework and sometimes I have to go back & study a bit when I forget what I learned.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Rising without stirrups *can* be beneficial, but as a coach one must be careful of the individual rider with this exercise. It can very easily encourage more gripping of the knee to push themselves out of the saddle, thus a swinging lower leg, toe down and tipping onto the crotch. 
Shortening the stirrups and riding in 2 point is something that I find more beneficial. It develops muscles and a stable lower leg which HAS to sit in the correct position with toes up or the rider will immediately fall forwards or backwards, as they physically cannot grip with the knee to hold on. 

Core exercises off the horse will be immensely helpful, as the core MUST be strong for the rider to sit effectively and quietly in the saddle. Pilates is a great one to do, otherwise simply running with some basic exercises works very well too. 
On the lunge, removing stirrups and reins and asking the students to move various parts of their body, lift their knees, rotate shoulders, ankles etc. 
This helps to develop an independent seat, as it will be impossible to grip while having to move alternate body parts at walk, trot and canter.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

So that was the point of all the 2 point she had me doing as well then? I thought she was being cruel! Do I really need more core exercises?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

2 point helps with more than just your lower leg. It also helps you learn an independent seat (which means that you'll be balanced regardless of what the horse is doing), help prevent you from balancing on your reins (very very common problem, I do it myself when I haven't been riding enough).

It's not about having a tight tummy either - it's about using it properly while riding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

I have students working on this. They had never been corrected and were pushing from the stirrups to post. I'm not going to lie, it's been a hard one for them to break out of.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

That was me just a few years back. Every time I rose, my legs shot forward. I was posting both incorrectly and behind the motion. I used the following things to fix it:

First I found my correct center of balance. I stood straight up in the stirrups and walked around that way until I could do it all day without holding onto my horse's neck for balance. Note: your crotch will be in front of the pommel. 

Next I used my new found center of balance and went back and forth between posting and staying up in the standing position. I quickly learned that I was keeping my shoulders too far back when sitting and needed to be inclined a little more forward to stay balanced and make an easy transition between sitting and standing. 

Next I posted every 3rd stride instead of every other. Horse found it a little annoying, but he put up with me. This one really keeps you over your feet very well. 

For overall lower leg strength, I hiked up my stirrups as high as they would go, and rode around in all 3 gaits that way for about two weeks. Lots of burning pain in the beginning, but boy did that work well. 

And finally, posted without stirrups. You have to keep what I would call "positive friction" with your lower leg and post by rolling up with your thighs. It's hard at first, but once you get it and go back to stirrups, you'll have whole new muscle memory in play and love your new quiet lower legs when trotting. 

Hope this helps.


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## justashowmom (Aug 14, 2011)

"First I found my correct center of balance. I stood straight up in the stirrups and walked around that way until I could do it all day without holding onto my horse's neck for balance. Note: your crotch will be in front of the pommel."
And, at first, your thighs will burn, but try to relax and go with the motion of your horse. It gets easier. I learned to do it on a schoolie - my OTTB could not figure out what in the world I was doing - LOL.

As others have said - swinging leg = pushing off with your feet. Took me a long time to fix this. Also, not only make sure your shoulders are not too far back, but make sure you are not slinging one forward. I had a terrible issue with posting the trot to the right as my horse would bulge his way across the arena. Finally figured out I was throwing my left shoulder forward - fixed that - no more bulge.
Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/english-r...gs-kicking-trot-balance-151130/#ixzz2J2SUDd9H
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## Almond Joy (Dec 4, 2011)

Many riders at my barn and I've seen it at other places grip with their upper calf (correctly) but when they sit to post they bump the lower leg. This creates a rhythmic trot without constantly keeping and dulling the horse to your lower leg. Some horses also prefer it.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

I would ask the OP if the leather is hanging vertically, or if there is too much pushing into the heels. The entire leg should be stretched from hip (opening) to thigh and knee (straightening/lowering) to heel (reaching down and slightly back), this creates a kind of adhesion (like a rubber band held next to a curved surface). The rider keeps the contact without and grip at all. The calves do not grip the horse, but they are 'bulked' because the heel is lower than the foot without pushing onto the bar or locking the knees (which also can cause the 'recoil). It is the elasticity w/o tension which prevents the busy lower leg.

The horse's belly swings (esp in the trot) side to side, so the horse gets its own 'forward' message w/o white noise from the lower leg.


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## Whizzer (Jun 11, 2012)

I'm so glad I found this thread because I have the same problem. My trainer is always trying to get me to break the habit of my feet going out when I post up. I try my hardest not to do it but even when I focus on not doing it, I still do it! My trainer tells me to keep my heels down and imagine kicking my heel back towards my horse's back legs instead of letting them go out to the side, and that helps sometimes. She says it's not a huge kick out, but it's still noticeable and she (and I!) want to get me out of the bad habit.

I feel like I've tried everything and my feet still go out to the side when I post up. We work on 2 point and my stirrups are the right length and my heels are most definitely down. I've even ridden without stirrups sitting and posting (which I can do with no problem). 

It's nice to know that it's not an isolated problem! But I'm frustrated that I can't seem to figure out what I need to do to make it stop.


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

I'm waaay guilty of this. I KNOW I don't ride nearly enough at once per week to build the correct musculature to stop this, and instead post by rolling up from the thigh and by being "thrown up" by the movement of the horse. 

This was one of the reasons (just not getting enough saddle time) I made the decision to buy a horse finally! (I feel that at this point I'm "enmeshed" and not going anywhere, so time to make that big jump...not to mention, once I own, barring something unexpected with said new horse-G-d forbid!- I can ride 6d/week and finally GET somewhere!) Initially, I was convinced I would have preferred a lease, but in my area, this is not going to happen, and I think the sort of riding I need to do requires me at the "helm", decision making-wise, and not the horse's owner. And, I'm ready, I just need to suck up the fear and do it!
(TOPIC JUMP-oops!)

Thus, yes OP, I am completely familiar with the little "kick out" motion when posting! I can even feel myself doing it, and honestly, I believe it comes from posting off of my legs/feet/stirrups (as horrid as that is!)...I know it's wrong, and because I do not intend to show ever, I think my trainer is focusing on other things in my riding which need correction and leaving this alone for now, because I KNOW if I can feel it, she can see it!

Gosh, sometimes it feels so darned overwhelming, how MANY THINGS one must do correctly in order to be an effective, proper, and balanced rider! 

I often wonder, "Will I EVER get this??"... I know I've only been back at it for 11 months, & I must remember where I was when I re-started vs now, but I really want to get GOOD, or at least better than I feel I am now! I cannot wait until I'm in a position to be riding daily. I pray that will begin to move things along more rapidly, so that I can begin to really enjoy being on horseback and not be a worried wreck that everything I'm doing is confusing the horse (I am already certain it's confusing me!) :0)

I know time is the key, and I'll never give up. Great topic, OP! This is something I've definitely thought about but since no one discusses it, I half-way figured it was just me.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

It is fixable, like Katy said, work without stirrups, two point and an groundperson constantly reminding you. I am proud to say, at every schooling show last year, every judge said I had good legs, yay!


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