# Gps



## k9kenai (Jul 1, 2017)

Some of the dogs on our K9 Unit use the Garmin Alpha. Of course, that unit is fairly dog-specific although we've also used it during training sessions and have had the subject carry the collar and tracked them using the handheld. I've also thought about using it during trail riding in the future and just attaching the collar to my saddle (or myself) so I can track myself and where I'm going/where I've been. That's just a theory though so don't quote me on if that actually _will _work. So I guess it could still be an option? They are expensive, though. About $700-$800 for a handheld/collar unit.

I really like the Garmin brand, though. Other members of our SAR team have used other brands and we have not found them to be as reliable or long lasting as the Garmins. I don't particularly like the watch types, though. I do find that those don't last as long. So if I were in the market for one I would look for a Garmin handheld, and any model really. They have pretty decent customer service and if you call them with specifics of what you are looking for and what you are planning on doing with it they can guide you to the right type of model.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Thank you for the reply...I do like my Garmin but I don't think I used it to its potential either. Mainly just used it to see how far and how fast I was riding. Really want to learn how to track my trail so won't get lost or at least can find my way back. I have a hard time following markers and often go off course! 

$700-800 would be a bit more than I'd like to spend...

Any particular features that you love about it though?


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## k9kenai (Jul 1, 2017)

Well I've only used it for the dogs so I can only go off of those but you may be able to use the functions in some way for riding.

You can track I think up to 20 dogs (20 collars) with one handheld, and the handheld/collars can also be connected to a Garmin Drivetrack and a Garmin watch. You can track your dog's pace and it will also alert you when the dog has stopped ("treed") and mark the point on the map. Depending on the SD card you have you can save a lot of routes and maps, too, and you can also upload the Birds Eye View which gives you a satellite view of the area you are in based on whatever state you purchase which comes in handy if you are trying to avoid hazards such as cliffs, roadways, private property, etc. It has a very good range and battery life and you can buy additional batteries and I think somewhere I found a solar powered battery charger for it so you don't need to plug it in if you are in the backcountry for several days at a time. It is also fairly indestructible if you get a good case for it as my friend has dropped his dozens of times (out of the truck, into the river, off a cliff...). He's had his for about two years now and it is still going strong. I think he had one issue with a battery and he called Garmin and they sent him a replacement for free. They also sent him the wrong size collar when he first bought it and they immediately sent him a free larger size collar. So good customer service. 

It also doubles has a training collar so it has tone, vibrate, and shock functions although you probably do not have a use for those haha! We have taught the dogs to come back to us when they hear the tone.

You can find more information and a whole bunch of accessories on Outdoor Dog Supply which I think is the best supplier outside of buying from Garmin directly (and maybe even better than Garmin). They also have refurbished models every now and then so you may be able to buy one cheaper.

There is also an older model that is the Garmin Astro. It has similar functions but is not as high tech, so you may look at that one if you don't need all the fancy doo dads.


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

For a few years now, I've used a refurbished Garmin Dakota 20. It's worked pretty well. Right now, I don't remember what I paid for it, but I don't think it was more than $180 or so (I could be wrong). Don't know how that model compares with Foretrex 301.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

@k9kenai very interesting! Maybe I could drop collars along the route and find my way back by pings :grin:

Totally agree, don't believe the shock function would be an asset with a horse!! Well maybe if they start bucking?? lol

Bird's eye view would also be handy to locate a road for quick return. 

Thanks for all the tips!! 
@charrorider I haven't seen the Dakota 20 on any of the sites I've recently seen. Is it an older model?

The Foretrex 301 is worn on the arm like a watch. I don't know if maps can be downloaded to it or not. That is a function I would like. Mainly I just use it for distance and speed, but finding my way back to the trailhead is something I have been trying to figure out. Occasionally my horse deposits me on the trail and I have to walk back :icon_frown:


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## Oreos Girl (May 24, 2011)

Good to see you back in the trail riding area Anita.

I got the Garmin etrek20 for Christmas this year. I don't think it has a good signal strength as my old Magellian 4100 (I think is the model number.) The problem I had with the Magellian is that when the battery goes dead, you have to re-install the software on the unit which is something you don't think to check before you leave the house normally. So I would get where I was going and try turning on my unit and it would give me a startup error (because I had replaced the batteries).


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

You didn't say how much you want to spend, but the etex 20 is a good place to start...

That said, have a look at the Garmin GPSMAP64s.....


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Hi @Oreos Girl Thank you for the welcome back! I am hoping to be riding some more trails soon. Finally found a trail riding buddy but the first time we went out her horse came up lame. Pasture wars the day before...

I think she will be open to a little trailblazing, which is something I've been wanting to do for a while. 

The xtrec20 was the one I was originally looking at. It will be a while before I can buy one though. 

Hi @gunslinger that GPSMAP64s is very interesting. I do get a bit confused trying to compare the features on all these. 

So I'll ask you both; what is it you like or dislike about these units?


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

I have a Magellan eXplorist 610, its WAY more gps then I need...my mom bought it for me for Christmas a few years ago. 

Pros: Its been VERY easy to use
The large screen makes it easy to see
Waterproof and "shock proof"
Can put in an SD card for saving routes/making trails/downloading trails to it to follow

Cons: Has a camera I never use...so a lower version without the camera I would of preferred
Battery life isn't the greatest but its not the worst either. I make sure its on standby mode while riding then I can usually get at least 8-9 hours out of it. I've heard that because I'm using rechargeable batteries thats why they don't last as long?


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

My Garmin eTrex 20 does all I want it to do. The batteries hold up pretty well too.


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

I replied. I don't know why I don't see it here. Anyways, yes, you can download bird's eye view maps (satellite photos, really) on Garmin Dakota 20. It will also tell you top speed, average moving speed, distance, etc., etc., etc. It probably is a older version, but it still works fine. 
Oreos Girl, the compass has to be recalibrated every time I change batteries on my Dakota 20. But even the alkaline batteries will last for 15 hrs.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi Anita!

I use an app called "Backcountry Navigator" on my Android phone. Doesn't need to be connected to the cell network to work; you can D/L maps and aerial imagery to the phone, add and record tracks, etc, etc, etc. I like it much, much better than the DeLorme PN-60 stand-alone GPS receiver I was using, plus the large bright screen on the phone makes using it a lot easier on these tiring old eyes. Only downside I have found is that if you are using it continuously, it eats up battery. I carry a spare, but the newer devices don't always offer that as an option.
There is a fully functional free version, and the "Pro" version is like $10. Might be an iOS version too. Give it a try before you look for a stand-alone GPS; save your money for horse treats 

Steve


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> Hi @*Oreos Girl*
> 
> The xtrec20 was the one I was originally looking at. It will be a while before I can buy one though.
> 
> ...


I've had several hand helds for over 20 years now.....What I like about the Etrex 20, 30 etc. is the 25 hour battery life.....whe GPSMAP64 series only has a 16 hour battery life.....this doesn't really matter to me, as I buy rechargeable batteries.......

The GPSMAP64 has the look and feel (push button interface) of the 60CSx which I currently use.....I also have a etrex HCx..similar to the etrex 30......which GF ties on her saddle bags.........but I find the push buttons on the 60 easier with gloves on....

The S means it has the electronic compass and altimeter...nice to have, but I don't use them often...I carry a compass in my shirt pocket.......the more expensive GPS's have camera's wireless bluetooth etc....things I don't really want or need....

I sometimes play some games where everyone guess the elevation....not many people are very close when it comes to this....

Also, the Antenna is larger on the GPSMAP64S. 

You won't go wrong with either.....


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## Oreos Girl (May 24, 2011)

I said before, I seem to get better reception with my Magellin but the whole software issue is a major pill. The etrec20 is harder to use (had it less time though, different things to get reset screens) and I don't think it is as good with the GPS signal.

I also use BackCountry Navigator. I always carry one of those battery units with me when I am riding.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Thank you all for the great info! Can always count on HF members 

My phone is probably one of the last with a removable battery in it, but I don't have a spare. Need to correct that asap, lol

Think I will start out with the Backcountry Navigator as @george the mule suggested and see how well the phone likes it! The price is right  

Then will try to figure out what else to try that is a stand alone GPS. 

I really don't like carrying my android phone with me, only because they are so expensive to replace! Many falls plus sweaty horse and rider I think are what killed my old phone. I carry a cheap flip phone with a few vital phone numbers on it, if it dies it only costs $10-15 for a new one


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi Anita!

Any questions with the Backcountry Navigator, don't hesitate to ask; I've been using it for about three years, and will be happy to offer what help I can. I run it on a Samsung Galaxy S4. I've dropped one and George stepped on it (RIP), lost one in the mountains (someone found it and returned it a couple weeks later), and sat on one/cracked the screen (but it was still working). These days, I have one that is my daily phone, and another that I use just for riding/GPS/camera/Kindle. It doesn't even have phone service, but (a little known fact) you can _still_ get a 911 call thru with it if necessary as long as you are in cell-range. They're relatively cheap on eBay these days; cheap to the point where I don't even bother with repairing and re-selling them any longer :-( The GPS receiver in the ones I have had is quite sensitive, and once a link is established, it works even down in the valleys surrounded by pine trees, something the DeLorme POS never managed.

Steve

PS: I do _not_ trust the e-compass, tho, and carry an old-school magnetic one in my pocket.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

george the mule said:


> Hi Anita!
> 
> Any questions with the Backcountry Navigator, don't hesitate to ask; I've been using it for about three years, and will be happy to offer what help I can. I run it on a Samsung Galaxy S4. I've dropped one and George stepped on it (RIP), lost one in the mountains (someone found it and returned it a couple weeks later), and sat on one/cracked the screen (but it was still working). These days, I have one that is my daily phone, and another that I use just for riding/GPS/camera/Kindle. It doesn't even have phone service, but (a little known fact) you can _still_ get a 911 call thru with it if necessary as long as you are in cell-range. They're relatively cheap on eBay these days; cheap to the point where I don't even bother with repairing and re-selling them any more :-( The GPS receiver in the ones I have had is quite sensitive, and once a link is established, it works even down in the valleys surrounded by pine trees, something the DeLorme POS never managed.
> 
> Steve


Hmm. Use an old phone? Hmm

Dumb Q #1 how do you get the BN program on it? Hook it to the computer?


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Dumb Q #2

The demo version shows up for free, 21 day trial or something on Google Play

The other version is $11.99 don't know if that is Pro or not...

Is that a one time charge?


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Anita, #1, go to the Google Play store with the browser on your phone and "purchase" it. You have to go thru their process, even for free stuff.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.crittermap.backcountrynavigator.license&hl=en

If you're computer/Android savvy, you can probably D/L the .apk to your PC, copy it to your phone using the USB, or a microSD, and install it from there. At the very least, tho, you will have to toggle the "Unknown Sources" switch in settings/more/security, and you might have to enable the "USB debugging" to get the USB file transfer to work. Google your device and Android version for details. With iOS, you're simply stuck using the Apple store unless you "jailbreak" your device, etc. Don't ask me. Altho I like my Mac/OSX, I cheerfully hate iOS, and haven't messed with an i-Device since I unloaded my iPad several years ago. Don't get me started on this topic . . . 

I always try to use a wi-fi connection for phone downloads, 'cause my LTE data is billed by the 100MB. Also wi-fi for downloading maps and aerial imagery; real easy to rack up 100MB+ getting imagery. In any event, once you start building a map database, be sure to back it up somehow or another. A microSD is probably the easiest, if your device supports it. I have about 10GB of map database on my laptop, but only have the currently-in-use map packages on the phone at any given time. The Samsung Galaxy S4 doesn't play well with microSD, so I don't use it in them any longer.

#2, I don't know about the "trial" period, didn't used to be one; you just had to deal with annoying adverts. Yes, it's a one time charge to purchase, and you will also get free updates. The Android on my phone is very much non-stock (Google annoys me with their continuous spying and nagging), and all Google Play is telling me is that I already own it, with no additional details, so I can't say.

Steve


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Ok, not sure I understand all of the above, but will wait until I actually have a spare phone to try this stuff. Wasn't sure how to download to a phone without service...

I downloaded the $11.99 one thinking that is pretty cheap and some commenters said they were unable to bring their saved tracks into the pay version from the demo version. 

Loaded quickly and easily. I open it up and it wants me to choose a map first thing. 

So dumb Q #3:

Any suggestions on what map to download? I will be totally staying in the USA, and mostly in the Eastern half. 

Dumb Q #4: 

Can I take a picture of a map and put it in as background? Like from a screen shot? Or does it have to be a map with actual coordinates and elevations and such?


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi Anita!

#3: Well, I'm old, and used to looking at the USGS 7.5 minute paper topo maps, so I feel right at home using the CalTopo US 24K Topo Maps. For imagery, at least around here, I find the best resolution is with the National Map Imagery-USGS Small Tiles. Note that when you go to download, you will have a choice of "Max Zoom". For best results, pick the highest "zoom" available. Also, I have found that saving things in a separate map folder for each area of interest helps keep things sorted out, and at a manageable size.
I would suggest starting with maps of a local area that you know well, and experiment with the packages available to see what you like. Be careful with your "selection"; it's easy to get carried away and wind up with a huge download. It's easy to add tiles, but impossible to remove them from a package, so start small.
#4: Not sure what you're asking. If you just want to look at a map of a place, start BN, and navigate there (have internet enabled). When you find something you want to keep, select it and download it; then it will be available to BN even when no internet is available. If you want a map of your surroundings, select "My Location (center)" Have location enabled on your phone, _and_ internet unless it is in a previously downloaded package; then select the appropriate package. If you just want to have a map as a screen background, you will need to do a screen capture and set it as your background.
Before you even get started, look thru the BN menus, and settings to get an idea of what options are available to you, and where they are selected. The BN website probably has a tutorial, too. I will comment that I have had best results with my phone "Locations" set to "Phone Only", but that might just be my particular Android, so experiment. Also, do your first track recording and retracing on a hike over a known trail, so you have familiar scenery to compare with. Once you build confidence with the results you are getting, try something new to you; record a track, and follow it back. Like most things, successful experience builds confidence.

Steve


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