# getting the diagonal by feel



## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

I've been training horses and instructing for more than 40 years and have never been able to pick up the correct diagonal strictly by feel. For a horse that's sound, there just isn't that much difference in feel to me. 


What she can do though is study the way the shoulders move first at the walk and then into the trot. Lots of watching the shoulder. Once she realizes what the outside shoulder does _as the horse is moving into the trot, _the quicker she'll pick up the correct diagonal. In fact, with practice she'll _feel_ the walking shoulder, ask for the trot and automatically rise with the correct leg. She can also do a lot of posting while studying not just the outside shoulder but both shoulders. Her brain will start to recognize the difference in what right and wrong look like. Then she can practice checking her diagonal without moving her head or looking obviously down.


This doesn't come easily to all kids and the only thing that is going to teach her to understand what she is seeing is a couple of sessions with a_ lots_ of walk/trot transitions-over and over again! And, she needs someone to yell out "wrong" every time it is. That way she can look down and see _why_ it's wrong.


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## NCT (Mar 28, 2017)

Thanks! This is helpful. I will work on it with her during her out of lesson rides. 

She hates when I mention she is on the wrong diagonal. Her instructors can tell her of course but she gets irritated with me but I will explain what you wrote and that should help. they have a fun show coming up so it is in her best interest to learn now! it was like no one pushed the issue because they figured she would get it eventually but 2 yrs later she still cant.

I will also mention, it doesn't matter the horse- she has the issue with any horse or pony she rides. She is also pretty petite and some one mentioned that may be why she doesnt feel it easily but I have no idea about that.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I can feel what lead the horse is loping on .... but I cannot feel what diagonal they are on. I have to look. 

And I know there are plenty others that have to look too who have plenty of riding experience. It is very, very difficult to feel. I most certainly would NOT expect an 11 year old to be able to do that.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

The way I taught myself to feel the diagonal was to trot in very small circles. In a small circle the horse's balance is changed enough to where you can feel when the front leg that is inside the circle is down hitting the ground. Your inside foot drops more than the other when that inside leg hits the ground, which you can feel when you are in the standing phase of posting.

If you rise on the wrong diagonal on a very small circle, it puts you off balance because the horse is leaning into the circle. Posting on the wrong diagonal makes you lean slightly out versus the horse's slightly inward lean.

Another way to learn is by doing figure eights and switching diagonals when the circle direction changes. This also helps you feel how the balance is different on each diagonal (one foot lower in the stirrups than the other). 
If she can learn to feel this at her age, she will be talented indeed!


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## NCT (Mar 28, 2017)

Thanks beau159 for the perspective. I'm not a rider myself so I have no idea what its like. Her instructor is saying she should try to feel it but that might be in certain instances and I may not be understanding what she means exactly. Other kids and adults she rides with don't seem to have an issue with it like she does but she is younger and/or less experienced.


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## NCT (Mar 28, 2017)

gottatrot that sounds like a great idea! She can definately work on that.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't do well at that either, but that's because I don't ride on circles, in arenas, much. you can only really feel the correctness of a diagonal if you are on a small enough circle where it does make it easier for the horse to trot.

while people watch the shoulder, the real reason you rise with the outside shoulder going forward is that the outside hind is going back. The outside hind is pushing off at that part, and if you rise up and off the back at that moment, you make it easier for the horse to get a big push. And , since on a circle, the oustide hind must push and reach further than the inside, we choose THAT leg to assist.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Probably most of the other riders who seem to be able to feel the diagonal are just sneaking a glance down and seeing when they're off. That's what I used to do before I could feel it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If it feels 'wrong' then its usually because the horse hasn't got the correct bend for the circle you're riding on

The easiest way that I've ever found is to start off posting on the correct diagonal rather than try to figure it out once you're going round
You first look quickly down to see which shoulder is moving forwards and then work on getting a 'feel' for the way the horse moves its shoulders back and forth as it trots


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Work on feeling the hind legs, rather than the shoulder.

When I taught myself, I did many walk trot transitions on a straight line. Sitting trot to figure out which leg was pushing, then try and check the shoulder. You figure out the step eventually.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

I know I couldn’t do it when I was that age. I looked down at first but my instructor used to yell that if I looked down I’d end up there. So I used to look out of my peripheral vision without moving my head. I think I managed to feel something of the stretch and lift, dip and bend as well. Nowadays, I’m not sure how much I can feel and how much I’m seeing it as pay attention to other things. 
At the moment she’s purposefully having to think about it but it will become second nature. If she can keep her head up and glance with her eyes to confirm, then she’ll slowly learn how to feel when it’s right or wrong.


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## 3Horses2DogsandaCat (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie Goodnight has the most simple explanation that I've heard for feeling the correct diagonal. She says to start at a sitting trot, and when you feel your outside hip lift, that's when you rise. I haven't done enough arena work recently to see how well I it works, but it sure seems easier than a lot of the other techniques.


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

I've had issues with this before. This will probably seem really silly, but I have a hard time telling when I look on the outside shoulder. I look at the inside shoulder and if I am rising with it, I switch the diagonal. Again it seems silly, but it works for me, so I do it. Lol.


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## DanisMom (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm not good at finding the diagonal either, but I can feel when I've got the wrong one and change it. I always pick up the same diagonal no matter which direction I'm going for some reason. But when I'm on the correct diagonal my inside knee feels just a bit tighter on the horse. On the wrong diagonal, the outside knee is tighter. That's how I know to change the diagonal. But it's been a long time since I've ridden in an arena and longer since I've tried posting. I'd probably have to relearn it all over again now.


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## NCT (Mar 28, 2017)

Thanks for all the suggestions- it gives a lot of different approaches which is great because Im not sure what will work for her. She cannot seem to tell where the shoulder is when she looks even when we put bright tape on it but we will keep trying. It seems like she needs to do both- work on seeing it and feeling it. 

Its also good to hear it is not unusual for her to have this problem. I have no idea how it compares to other kids her age/level.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

If she needs to, she can drop a hand and rest it on the shoulder to feel how it moves.


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## Magnolia93 (Aug 10, 2015)

horseylover1_1 said:


> I've had issues with this before. This will probably seem really silly, but I have a hard time telling when I look on the outside shoulder. I look at the inside shoulder and if I am rising with it, I switch the diagonal. Again it seems silly, but it works for me, so I do it. Lol.


I do this too xD

I've been riding for most of my life and honestly, glancing down without moving your head doesn't throw off your balance at all, so I've never seen the point in learning how to do it by feel.

Then again, when I look down to check my diagonal I'm usually already right, so maybe I'm picking it up naturally by feel? Anyway, for the show I'd just teach her to look down quickly without moving her head


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

There is a paint mare I used to ride that had a white patch on her shoulder in just the right spot to see it easily when trotting. You only saw it as the leg was rising so if that was the leg on the wall it made things really simple. She also had a big enough trot that you could feel her push you up out of the saddle into the correct diagonal. Perhaps putting a paint mark on the shoulder of the horse could help.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I learned to feel which shoulder was moving back. Once you can feel that, you can find the diagonal without looking. Depending on the horse, some people find it easier to feel which rear leg is moving foward or back and doing it that way.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I ride professionally and don't always get my diagonals and honestly barring shows it really doesn't matter that much. I blame the fact that I rode many mechanically lame horses in my early days so never learned the proper feel until later.

Now yes she should learn to glance at the shoulder. If she's consistently getting that wrong it's easy enough to fix- do the opposite! How to learn that is just a matter of watching and paying attention. She should look on the ground and in the saddle. She's young, I don't think her struggle is unusual at all, she just needs consistency and experience.

Now as far as actually choosing the correct diagonal while it is ok to peek down to check that should NOT be anything but a double check and ideally she will get the feel well enough she doesn't need to check. Yes, easier said then done but just don't focus on her looking too much. Having someone call out right and wrong may be more beneficial. Looking is overrated and in a way harmful.

First of all she will likely feel the back legs more easily...so she should be sitting with the outside hind and rising with the inside hind (opposite of fronts as remember the trot is a diagonal gait hence the term). Having her sit the trot then pick up what's appropriate - have someone call do NOT look, then correct if needed...then after riding for a little (say half the ring a quarter, whatever) go back to sitting. I would do exercises like this periodically but try not to over focus on it. If she doesn't have an instructor then a quick peek down to check is ok but don't focus on that and if she doesn't know how to do that (again seperate issue) then it will do more harm then good. That's an exercise I do regularly on my own and it's been invaluable to me.

I'm surprised more people haven't commented on feeling the back legs. Learning to look at the front legs is all well and good but it won't teach you to pick up the correct one from the get go.

Oh- I will also intentionally post on the wrong diagonal and swap back and forth, of course this only helps if she knows wrong and right. And unless you're circling it really won't *feel* incorrect until you get good at feeling the individual legs and can determine incorrect yourself. So a good exercise but a step after the one I said above.

But yes, completely normal


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## BzooZu (Jan 12, 2014)

I am an adult beginner that has been riding on and off for a few years and I cant tell if I am rising to the correct leg without looking. I cant feel it at all. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I dont, sometimes I forget to change the leg when I am changing diagonals, sometimes I dont even need to think about it. My trainer thankfully doesnt obsess over it so I self regulate.

Personally I would ask your daughter if it bothers her that she cant feel it. If it does and she wants to learn then I would have a chat with her trainer about the best way to teach her the feel. There are many ways to learn how (starting with figuring out which legs are rising when in walk, then trot, then canter; going from sitting trot and learning to feel those back legs; watching the shoulders obsessively until she can associate what she sees with what she feels; making her guess which diagonal is she on after each transitions etc.) but with all those she needs help from someone who can see when she is doing it right and wrong (friend, you or her trainer, it doesnt matter).
Maybe just watching a few internet videos on "how to pick the correct diagonal" will help her too.

If she doesnt mind that she cant feel it then I would just leave it alone. Its not a big deal and many riders dont bother with the "correct" diagonal.


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