# My mare was accidentally bred at boarding stable!



## AlabamaHorseMom (Jan 20, 2010)

What a stinky situation. I would be asking for ALL the marecare bills paid for, but if he wont buy hay for his own horses, chances are you arent getting a dime from him.


----------



## pieinthesky (Mar 12, 2010)

file in civil claims court.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

You should probably talk with a lawyer to find out exactly what the laws are in that area and what chance you have of winning a liability suit. I would personally want all vet care for mare and foal to come from the BO plus whatever other expenses are associated with caring for a pregnant mare and a baby (special feeds, etc). Also, consider about time lost and such if she is a show horse or a working horse. A lawyer that can review your contract with the BO (if you had one) and is familiar with the local laws and courts would be able to give you a much better plan of attack.


----------



## ShezaCharmer (Mar 13, 2010)

smrobs said:


> You should probably talk with a lawyer to find out exactly what the laws are in that area and what chance you have of winning a liability suit. I would personally want all vet care for mare and foal to come from the BO plus whatever other expenses are associated with caring for a pregnant mare and a baby (special feeds, etc). Also, consider about time lost and such if she is a show horse or a working horse. A lawyer that can review your contract with the BO (if you had one) and is familiar with the local laws and courts would be able to give you a much better plan of attack.


this is what you should do. Nicely said smrobs. In some states if your horse was a proven show horse the stable owner will be fined hugely and possibly put in jail. But just check some of the state and local laws where you live.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

Thanks so much for the feedback. I think we will see if we can find a lawyer who is knowledgable about laws that are relative to our situation. I am just so frustrated! We knew they were clueless at that facility but I didn't realize how bad it was. :evil: I feel terrible that my poor mare has been enduring the less-than-ideal quality hay there all the while trying to support a pregnancy. We are having our vet come out Monday to palpate her so once we have a more definitive idea of where she is at and if the foal is viable we will move forward with contacting a lawyer to see what our options are. I've heard of things like this happening but I never imagined it would happen to me!!! Makes me wonder if I should contact any of the other boarders with mares to tell them to make sure their mares aren't pregnant too. :wink:


----------



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

^^I definitely would do just that. Also contact the two boarders stallions and let them know of the possibility that it was their stallion that did it.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

I don't have any contact info for either of the two people who had stallions out there unfortunately. One of them I know the first name of the owner and the other I know absolutely nothing about. Again, very poorly managed facility. I will definately ask around though and see if anyone else has contact info for the owners of those stallions. The other two stallions are owned by the stable owner. With so many stallys it's hard to know whose to blame!! I did contact the stable owner to let him know what was going on but haven't heard back from him. I doubt he will ever call me back. All the boarders left when I left a couple weeks ago but I am friends with all of them so easy to let them know what's going on. I wonder if there are any other mystery foals???? :lol:


----------



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Hmmmm....another interesting question will be, if it was a boarder stallion, who should pay for your mares foaling/related vet bills? The BO (since its his fault) or the stallions owner (since its their stallion)?


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

Yes, that's a really good point. Mostly it just seems it should not have to be me! ha, ha.


----------



## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

I really hope you're not Canadian, in which case there's not much the justice system will do for you.
If you're not Canadian, best of luck to you and I hope you get the whole situation worked out, what a terrible position to be in though


----------



## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

Be sure to keep us updated!! What breeds are the stallions? Hope you get this all sorted through!


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm not Canadian so hopefully that will help me from a legal standpoint! My mare is a Thoroughbred and all four stallions are quarter horses. Two are registered, and the other two are not. I'm really hoping it was one of the registered ones because they were much better looking stallys than those two mutt-type quarter horses!


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Here's another problem. If the stallions are valuable show horses, the owners could sue to have the foal euthanized at birth. It is their right to have only mares of their choosing produce offspring. They may not want just any mare being bred.

The BO would be responsible to you, not the stallion owner. Just be aware that the stallions owner has rights too. They could demand a DNA test to prove the stallion and then act accordingly.


----------



## skittle1120 (Oct 24, 2009)

Wow... I would be absolutely livid in a situation like that...

Although you most likely would not get a lump sum from the BO to pay for expenses related to the pregnancy, if you contact a lawyer and have a court ordered settlement, you will eventually get your money... It may be $50 a month until the entire amount the court awards gets paid, but they can't avoid paying forever....

You should be able to add the incurred legal fees to the amount your asking for also, because you wouldn't have to be hiring a lawyer if the incident wouldn't have happened... Just remember no matter what seems to be happening, remain calm and polite... Your attitude, especially in front of the judge, can have an impact on the final outcome.... 

Good luck...


----------



## rockaway (Jan 14, 2010)

I hope all goes well. The same thing happened to us. My mare was so sick at the trainers she almost died - salmonella - they have pigeons. Then their stallion got loose. They swore nothing happened and the vet said since she was so sick she doubted she would take - well 11 months later and much too early in the cold winter time a filly was born. The trainers only response was that they wanted the filly - they did not get her. My mare lost so much weight as she was underweight to start with and it was an uphill battle. Thank goodness we were trying to put weight on her when we did not know she was pregnant. IT was a nightmare but we learned a lesson about just trusting people ( we thought these were good people) . It has turned out fine (except for what my mare went thru) - the filly was given away to a good home as we did not want one right now. We are from Canada and did not even try to do anything. Best of luck.


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

justsambam08 said:


> Hmmmm....another interesting question will be, if it was a boarder stallion, who should pay for your mares foaling/related vet bills? The BO (since its his fault) or the stallions owner (since its their stallion)?



Alison Finch is right no matter who's stallion it is ,it is the BO that is responsible. They were under his care and therefore responsible and if the BO wants they can sue the stallion if it wasn't theirs. It is your right to sue any and all parties and if you can only find one of the parties responsible then they get the full brunt of any settlement.

I believe a lawyer will get you to name all parties...BO and both stallion owners. The judge will assess damages accordingly.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

It does seem that ultimately the boarding stable would bear the brunt of liability. Especially since standard of care was not met with respect to the fact that the fences are all broken and falling down and the stallions were not properly housed. So sorry to hear someone else went through this as well! Although, I have to say now that the shock is wearing off I'm more just excited at the prospect of a foal!!!


----------



## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>> Here's another problem. If the stallions are valuable show horses, the owners could sue to have the foal euthanized at birth. It is their right to have only mares of their choosing produce offspring. They may not want just any mare being bred.

>>> The BO would be responsible to you, not the stallion owner. Just be aware that the stallions owner has rights too. They could demand a DNA test to prove the stallion and then act accordingly. _

I doubt that the stallion owner's rights extend to having a foal euthanized in this type of situation. The stallion owner could sue the barn owner if the barn owner did not properly care for and isolate their stallion, and for any losses incurred by letting him breed "unauthorized" mares. But if it came down to it, it could be argued that the stallion owner, as owner of a potentially dangerous animal (according to most state laws regarding keeping stallions) should have removed their stallion from a situation where the stallion was not properly/legally kept. In some states, farm owners are still allowed to SHOOT stallions that are loose and harrassing their horses.....


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I know of two situations where mares were bred without the stallion owners permission. Boarders snuck mares to the stallion. On both occasions the stallion owners sued to have the mares aborted. Both cases were won by the stallion owners. I think this could be decided in a similar manner.


----------



## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> I know of two situations where mares were bred without the stallion owners permission. Boarders snuck mares to the stallion. On both occasions the stallion owners sued to have the mares aborted. Both cases were won by the stallion owners. I think this could be decided in a similar manner.


I had a simialar situation once - though it was the other way around. I purchased a mare from an older gentleman who boarded her at a trail riding facility. The old man allowed the BO to use his horse as a trail horse on their string - however the BO took merciless advantage of the old man, who was too trusting and lacked a lot of knowledge about horses. When I purchased the mare, the BO tried to prevent me from removing her from their facility, because she was bred to their grade paint stallion. I spoke to the mare's previous owner, and he had no knowledge of the mare being bred and had never given permission for the mare to be bred - which I passed along to the BO. They then backpedalled a bit, tried to shift blame to their staff, stating that the girls that worked for them had "accidentally" taken the wrong mare up to the stallion's pen, but that they were still entitled to the foal. They tried to tell me they would "do whatever it takes" to prevent me from removing the mare from their property, they claimed they had legal rights to keep the mare on their property until she foaled and keep the foal. I got a hold of a lawyer who drew up legal documentation including notarized statements from the previous owner that they had not had permission to breed the mare, and stating that they would be responsible for all vet costs, and that they were NOT entitled to the foal, along with further legal action being taken if they DID attempt to stop me from removing my horse from their property. Copies of the documentation were sent to the barn owner, previous owner of the mare, and to the local courthouse. I was ready to go to court over this situation if it came to that, however it never did. I arrived to remove my mare from the facility with a police escort, and had no problems at all from the BO after that. A vet was called out to my property to do an exam on the mare, as it turns out she wasn't pregnant (thank goodness - the barn owners had never even had her checked) but the boarding facility was still sent the vet bill for that visit. I assume they paid it as the vet never contacted me about it. 


To the OP - I hope it all works out for the best and you are able to find a way to get the BO to take responsibility. Sometimes, a letter is all it takes - just let them know you are serious!


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Allison Finch said:


> Boarders snuck mares to the stallion. On both occasions the stallion owners sued to have the mares aborted. Both cases were won by the stallion owners. I think this could be decided in a similar manner.


There is a huge difference when a mare owner KNOWINGLY breeds to a stallion without the owners permission and a mare bred without the mare owners knowledge.

Two totally different situations.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

I agree that not voluntarily having my mare bred puts my situation in a bit of a different light. However, I do appreciate the point that the stallion owner may try to stake some sort of claim over what happens to the foal. This whole waiting game until Monday to find out how far along she is and if the foal is viable is killing me!!! Getting that information will also help me figure out which of the stallions may be responsible as they have all been at the facility at different times.


----------



## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

If it turns out that she was bred by one of the registered stallions, I could see them refusing to sign a breeding report and allowing the foal to be registered (I don't even know if there is a registry for half QH? Is there?) They may ask for a breeding fee in exchange for a breeding certificate. I sure hope that they wouldn't be so petty that they would want to kill a foal....


----------



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

a TB/QH cross is an appendix QH. I think they are allowed to register. I agree that they might not allow the foal to be registered, which to me would be a perfectly fine price to pay (or lack thereof, no filing fees!) for having a foal you didn't plan on!


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Definitely the boarding facility should pay! it's their fault the mare got prego.....not the stally's owner's fault


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I apologize for double posting, but another thing to consider is, could the BO hold up a case claiming he has no money to pay you? I was burglarized a few months ago, and I couldn't sue the xssholes because they were heroin addicts who burglarized, gave their findings to pawn shops, and were given their heroin for the week from the pawn dealers. The case they're holding up in court is that they have no money.....which is probably true, given they have only a car, clothes, and they rent an apartment. If we tried to sue them for the worth of their car, the judge would say they would need that car to drive to a job if they ever got one. Make sure you have a rebuttal if anything like that were to arise


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Spyder said:


> There is a huge difference when a mare owner KNOWINGLY breeds to a stallion without the owners permission and a mare bred without the mare owners knowledge.
> 
> Two totally different situations.


 
Not that different from the stallion owners perspective, and that was my point. On both occasions the stallion was bred to an unapproved mare and they have the right to only breed to selected mares. Any get from a poor quality mare would put a stain on what that stallion is seen to produce. The stallion owners have the legal right to fight having that foal born. These mares were aborted medically. Euthanizing a born foal might be a bit different.


----------



## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> I know of two situations where mares were bred without the stallion owners permission. Boarders snuck mares to the stallion. On both occasions the stallion owners sued to have the mares aborted. Both cases were won by the stallion owners. I think this could be decided in a similar manner.


There is no proof of yet of who the sire of the foal is, can the mare's owner refuse a DNA test? Then the foal cannot be put down as there is no proof.


----------



## Thyonlyone (Mar 28, 2010)

I would say DNA testing will let you know who the stallion is. I know you can do this with the AQHA, Thoroughbred i am not that sure of but it is something to look into this should also give you the name of the stallion and the owner at the time of breeding if they are registered


----------



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Allison Finch said:


> Not that different from the stallion owners perspective, and that was my point. On both occasions the stallion was bred to an unapproved mare and they have the right to only breed to selected mares. Any get from a poor quality mare would put a stain on what that stallion is seen to produce. The stallion owners have the legal right to fight having that foal born. These mares were aborted medically. Euthanizing a born foal might be a bit different.


 
My point is in the assessment of blame and damages.

If the mare owner did this themselves then the blame is solely theirs.

Done not knowing then the mare owner has a case against the BO for improper upkeep and the stallion owner as it is his DUTY to ensure his stallion is housed safely. Damages awarded to the mare owner may include the foal.

Also Alison you are looking at it from one viewpoint only....what about the mare's "reputation". If the stallion is NOT what the mare owner would breed to, or is of poor quality (and there is a LOT of that around) then the mare owner could be stuck with a foal of low quality.

Any stallion owner that would house their stud under the conditions the OP stated I would sure wonder about as to its level of "quality".


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

equiniphile said:


> I apologize for double posting, but another thing to consider is, could the BO hold up a case claiming he has no money to pay you?


In which case, if the BO owns the property or another property, then a lien can be placed on it so that it will eventually be paid. Another alternative is a Sheriff's sale of assets that the barn owner has.

Trying to collect from an addict is far different from collecting from someone who actually owns something. BTW, if the BO is renting the facility, then a lawyer will probably enjoin the actual owner of the property.


----------



## HalfPass (Jun 12, 2009)

So sorry to hear of this tangled mess. I hope your vet finds your mare to be in good heath as well as her foal.

I wouldn't hesitate to get a lawyer on board. This lawyer is going to want as much evidence as possible and will most likely want pictures among other things of the facility etc. 

I have heard the DNA testing is expensive, but the party that is held accountable will/should have to pay for said testing as well.

What a mess. 
Hope your girl and her foal will be okay...please keep us posted.
Hp


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Spyder said:


> My point is in the assessment of blame and damages.
> 
> If the mare owner did this themselves then the blame is solely theirs.
> 
> ...



I agree that stallion owners have to be more concerned about the housing of their horses. The very lack of this concern makes me think they are possibly low quality stock that the mare owner might not want their mare to give birth to. 
This all sounds harsh, but taking a horse out of commission for this situation may not fit anyone's plans.

Good luck to the decision the OP may have to make, one way or the other.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

Wow, there are so many things to consider!! My husband and I have been talking about the potential problems stemming from the owner of the stallion that bred her. We are still in the dark as to how far along my mare is, but our best guess is that she is pretty darn far. Her belly is really big and she is bagging up already. I'm still so anxious to see what the vet says tomorrow. That said, aborting the fetus is not something we will do unless there is a medical reason to do so (risk to mare, problem with foal, etc.) No WAY am I going to allow any of those stallion owners to try and lay claim to or force euthanasia on this poor little foal. All three stallion owners are not quality breeders meaning they don't seem to have a clue as to how to properly care for or take responsibility for their studs. One of the owners thought it was funny to turn her stallion out in the pen alongside the arena while my daughters were riding their mare when she was in heat. Sheesh. Anyways, don't get me started on a rant. ha, ha. I just want what's best for my poor mare who looks hugely uncomfortable and for this little foal.

There was a good point made about poor finances with respect to the stable owner. He is definately not in sound financial shape and will likely try to get out of any type of payment to us by saying he doesn't have the money. He does own the property where the stable is so perhaps a lien against the property could be forced. We took pictures of the facility, crappy moldy hay, broken waterers, broken gates where the stallions were etc. the day before we left. At the time I was more concerned with the fact that one of my horses might have a health issue because of the crappy care. Little did I know we'd be dealing with this! So now I am happy I took all those pictures. I got the name of a lawyer from a friend who deals with laws pertaining to horses so I will see what she says when I meet with her this week.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

so, describe the stallion possibilities. What breed, color, etc.

Post a photo of your mare, and the stallions too, if you can. If she is bagging up, you will just have to deliver and see what you have. You never know......it might turn out interesting.


----------



## Peetz (Mar 14, 2010)

I doubt you will get any money from anyone. Best bet is to save your money and do your best with a new baby! Lawyers cost money, and I doubt the dead beat BO will pay you or even claim any blame! He/she will most likely just say "prove it" After all it is your word ( that you did not intentionally breed) against his/hers. With no proof the case is dead. I am just glad you are smart enough to have moved your horse before some heinous injury or worse happened to her. With the best of luck you may get an awesome horse, you never know. Prays to you and yours for a healthy foal.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

I do have some pictures of her that I took yesterday. Is there somewhere with directions on how to post a picture? I checked her tonight and I was able to get some colostrum out of her so I'm guessing she is pretty far along??? Can't wait to get some answers tomorrow!!


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

iridehorses said:


> In which case, if the BO owns the property or another property, then a lien can be placed on it so that it will eventually be paid. Another alternative is a Sheriff's sale of assets that the barn owner has.
> 
> Trying to collect from an addict is far different from collecting from someone who actually owns something. BTW, if the BO is renting the facility, then a lawyer will probably enjoin the actual owner of the property.


True....guess I was just throwing it out there


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

When you go to "Postreply" you'll see a place where you can place an attachement, much like when you are doing an e-mail.

I only read the last page, I apoligize for that. As for ownership of the baby, I believe the owner of the mare is the owner of the foal unless there is something in writing. The stud's owners really have no leg to stand on. They can go to the BO for payment of a stud fee since she screwedup... (Again I only read the last page so I may be way off).


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

eah4me said:


> I am just so frustrated! We knew they were clueless at that facility but I didn't realize how bad it was.


Not a good statement to make on a public board.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

mls said:


> Not a good statement to make on a public board.


Why not, if it's true. The OP never gave a name, did she? Even if she did.....


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Not that I'm defending the BO in any way, shape or form, but the OP should be concerned with the impending birth as well as the health of her mare, not worrying about assessing blame.

What's done is done. If the OP thought her mare may have been in foal, she could have had a vet out to pinch the fetus. Since she didn't, she now has a foal to prepare for.

Foals generally belong to the mare owner unless the stallion owner decides to press charges, in which case the foal could very well be awarded to the stallion owner for 'damages'.

This doesn't preclude the mare owner from seeking compensation from the BO, nor the stallion owner from also pressing charges against the BO.

It's a right fustercluck, with the BO being the only real villain of the piece if everything posted is true.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

My main concern is of course the health of my mare and the foal. We tried to get a vet out as soon as we found out the mare was pregnant but couldn't get anyone to come until yesterday. My only reason for asking about liability issues is that we didn't plan financially for a pregnant mare, foal and all the associated costs. It would seem reasonable to try and get the boarding stable to help out with those costs if they are at all to blame.


----------



## eah4me (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm not really sure why someone thinks it isn't a good idea to state that the boarding stable owners were clueless as to how to properly house stallions and care for horses properly. It is 100% true and it isn't anything I haven't already told them personally. They were well aware of the fact that I was not happy with the care and despite that refused to make any changes which is why I left. I only posted on this board because I was overwhelmed and shocked at finding out that my mare was pregnant and hoped to get some advice from others that might be more knowledgable about a situation like this than myself. I resent the implication that I am not concerned with my mare and foal's health. I was planning to post an update as to how the vet check went yesterday and the news we received but I don't think this is the right place for me. I didn't come to get attacked, just for advice. Thank you to those who offered very helpful feedback.


----------



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

eah4me said:


> I'm not really sure why someone thinks it isn't a good idea to state that the boarding stable owners were clueless as to how to properly house stallions and care for horses properly. It is 100% true and it isn't anything I haven't already told them personally. They were well aware of the fact that I was not happy with the care and despite that refused to make any changes which is why I left.


You stated you knew they were clueless - yet continued to keep your horses on property. The attorney for the BO could turn that around in favor of the barn.

Remember when you point a finger at someone - you have three pointing back at you.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Just because you're not getting the morally outraged responses and hand holding you wanted, doesn't mean you're being attacked.

Your mare and unborn foal's health should be the _only_ things on your mind right now. If she's due any day, you have preparations to make if you haven't already.

Yes, it's a shock to think that your mare was bred when you didn't want her to be. However, there's nothing constructive about trying to assess blame until the mare foals out and you have that worry off your mind.

Snarking at the BO isn't in your best interest if you plan to pursue legal action. Your words can come back to haunt you, especially if they're in written form.

I'd be highly angered if I had a mare who was bred without my permission, but I'd have had a vet out to look at her as soon as I'd gotten her home and taken whatever steps were necessary to terminate the pregnancy. Your mare is obviously too far gone at this point for that option.

I live out in the middle of nowhere, but have 4 or 5 large animal vets within 60 miles of me. I find it astonishing that so many people on these BBs say they can't find a vet to come out and see their animals. Maybe it's because I'm smack dab in the middle of beef cattle country, but the only worry I have about a vet is whether or not it's going to cost me a mortgage payment to have them out, not that I can't find one.

Foal out your mare and then look at contacting an equine liability attorney in your area to see what charges you can pursue, and stop bad-mouthing the BO on a public forum. Attorneys don't like to see their clients freaking out for God and everybody to see.


----------



## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

I would be ****ed royally at a BO that let this happen. You have a contract with them to keep your animal safe and they did not. What if you sent your kid to school and found out that the teacher let the other kids rape her? Would you ONLY be concerned about your child's health and not want to contact the authorities? Would you let this continue without causing a fuss? NO. I'm not saying it's the same thing by any means but I was just using an analogy before you guys jump down my throat about comparing people to horses. I also live in an area with A LOT of animals and very few, very overworked vets and the OP obviously has taken measures to ensure her mare's health and safety. The mare was already pregnant, already too along to abort and not in danger of dying from this pregnancy currently. Therefore any vet with a full load would not have made it a priority to come out right that second. This is not the owner or the vet's fault. It's called prioritizing. And I also think it's ridiculous that you think everyone should be able to pull vet bills, foaling costs and board for a mare and foal out of their magical back pockets. You get the best for your animals that your money can afford. Sometimes it's not the greatest but it's what you can do and once she realized how bad the situation was she moved the horse. I would not be pointing fingers at the OP here. Money is tight these days and I don't think they should have to hand over all their money for a pregnancy they didn't want nor allow to happen. If I was the OP I would attempt to throw the book at the BO as well. I hope they get things worked out, that mare and foal are happy and healthy and that this does not cause an undue financial strain on the family. I also hope that the BO gets what he deserves and has to pay for the costs and reimburse them for damages.


----------



## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>> Foals generally belong to the mare owner unless the stallion owner decides to press charges, in which case the foal could very well be awarded to the stallion owner for 'damages'._

The stallion owner would have no grounds to press charges against the mare owner, so I don't see how the foal could be awarded to the stallion owner for "damages"-- the stallion owner would be suing the barn owner if anyone, and the barn owner has no rights to the foal either.

And Speedracer, from reading the original and subsequent posts, I gathered that the OP DID move their mare some weeks ago due to the bad conditions. It was just recently that they began to suspect pregancy. Pregnancy was too far along to terminate it.


----------

