# Roy and Rainas adventure (Working long and low...)



## Rainaisabelle

So before I begin, I had an instructor but she left and you can't get a decent instructor in my area it's just a ginormous peeing contest with all of them.

While my instructor was here we were working mostly on getting my horse to work long and low which we did achieve ! But my horse slipped or did something in the paddock and was off for 2 months and then he was fine.

By then she was leaving, so I am looking for some exercises to encourage my boy to stretch down! He has done it before with me riding but I am finding it a bit hard to recreate it at this point. 


I appreciate the help as their are other factors as to why I can't get an instructor.


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## MyBoyPuck

Without any video, my first guess of what you're missing is proper bend through the body, which is different from neck flexion. Next time your ride, ride lots of squares so you really have to use your inside leg and outside rein to make the closest thing you can on a horse to square turns. Each corner will refresh the balance and keep your horse balanced on that outside rein. Once the balance is there, the horse will feel more confident about stretching forward into the bridle. Also riding transitions within the trot will encourage stretching.


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## blue eyed pony

*What MBP said*

I cannot emphasise this enough. Lots of deep corners, long sweeping bends, serpentines, transitions within the gait. Set him up for each properly, encourage him to stretch down and forwards, and LOTS OF PRAISE when he gets it right!


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## Rainaisabelle

Here is a picture.. We were doing basic figure of 8 and trot poles and also transitions up and down.

Excuse me hand position... I'm not sure what I was doing in this picture it was our warm down after our session


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## blue eyed pony

That's not long and low, that's plodding.

First photo is long and low, and my coach was very happy with how my girl was going based on this photo. Second photo is low and deep (and I was NOT HAPPY with the girl on her for doing it and never let her ride my horses again).

To get long and low you start with a light, even contact and allow the horse to slip the reins through your fingers until you get to the head carriage you want. You don't just throw the reins away and let the horse plonk around.


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## Rainaisabelle

I am aware that its not ENTIRELY long and low but for him thats a bigger deal then people realize considering he used to be a giraffe. 

I am a bit upset we didn't get there but you know what they say Rome wasn't built in a day. Although we didn't get the ' long and low' part we did get some really fluid transitions which I am really happy with. I am looking for my next instructor but the guy who runs the agistment makes it really uncomfortable to get any outside help.


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## blue eyed pony

It took me something like 8 months to reliably be able to get long and low on my girl and I broke her in myself so I know she never saw the racetrack and never got hauled around by heavy-handed, unbalanced riders. (My hands aren't perfect but they're not THAT bad)

It does take time  Just as long as you're aware that long and low is a whole-body thing and the horse must be actively seeking the contact.


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## Rainaisabelle

blue eyed pony said:


> It took me something like 8 months to reliably be able to get long and low on my girl and I broke her in myself so I know she never saw the racetrack and never got hauled around by heavy-handed, unbalanced riders. (My hands aren't perfect but they're not THAT bad)
> 
> It does take time  Just as long as you're aware that long and low is a whole-body thing and the horse must be actively seeking the contact.


He has done it before and I am pretty sure in the session he did it at least once but my partner is horse deficient and doesn't know the difference between lazy and active but he tries lol. I am pretty sure in that photo I had just finished scratching my leg below my boots I usually have pretty good hands and I am fairly balanced one of my at least decent riding qualities!

I wish my instructor had of stayed she was really good and gave me a lot of confidence.


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## blue eyed pony

Well you certainly must be doing something right because he's not muscled like a horse that braces and stargazes


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## Rainaisabelle

He was never a bracer more like bit evader... Well used to be I have seen some real improvement such as head carriage he doesn't hold it so high anymore


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## blue eyed pony

To be a "giraffe" as you call him all horses need to brace their necks. He may not have been bracing against your hands but he was still bracing.


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## Rainaisabelle

I don't think he's to muscled though yet anyway.. The last owner let him go downhill so it's going to take forever to get him back to a fit anything I am keen to see how he will turn out. Lots of people at my Agistment think he's a very special horse


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## blue eyed pony

No but you can see in their necks when they're bracing.

He's still not using his topline or he wouldn't have hollows behind his shoulders, and you may well be fighting an uphill battle with his back the way it is (that looks like quite a bad sway) - he may not be physically capable of it - but it doesn't hurt to try!


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## Rainaisabelle

I wouldn't say it's terrible bad sway back :/ I ask the same question to the vet every time he comes for check up if he thinks he has swayback and the vet says no every time but in my my opinion I think he does have a slight away unfortunately but it doesn't seem to affect him.


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## blue eyed pony

Yeah his giant withers and lack of topline don't help the appearance of it but there's definitely a sway there. Swaybacked horses do find it physically much more difficult to work over the back (severe sway makes it impossible) and that will make it more difficult for you to get the correct work you're looking for, but that doesn't mean you can't ask him to work as well as he is able.

Is that last photo older than the rest? His neck muscling looks different (more upside-down, which would be consistent with a giraffe-like way of going)


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## Rainaisabelle

blue eyed pony said:


> Yeah his giant withers and lack of topline don't help the appearance of it but there's definitely a sway there. Swaybacked horses do find it physically much more difficult to work over the back (severe sway makes it impossible) and that will make it more difficult for you to get the correct work you're looking for, but that doesn't mean you can't ask him to work as well as he is able.
> 
> Is that last photo older than the rest? His neck muscling looks different (more upside-down, which would be consistent with a giraffe-like way of going)


That one is 18th of June and this one is 18th of July when my friend was using him for her formal pictures


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## Rainaisabelle

Here's one when I first got him 18/12/2014


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## blue eyed pony

There's a significant difference between the June and July photos and WOW he looks AMAZING compared to the one of when you first got him!


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## Rainaisabelle

blue eyed pony said:


> There's a significant difference between the June and July photos and WOW he looks AMAZING compared to the one of when you first got him!


I suppose you only really see a difference when you look at pictures? I never noticed any changes but he has been getting ridden more 2 days of arena work and 1 day of my friend who LOVES his speed out on a trails.


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## blue eyed pony

Look at the shape of his neck - big difference there. The hollows behind his withers look more pronounced in the more recent photo but his neck is changing shape.


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## Zexious

Subbing :>


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## Beling

For some reason I'm not seeing all the pictures today... but if your horse used to be a giraffe, from the first picture, you look great!

I have a similar type, with a swayback look. To get her back up, she does best when I'm on a completely loose rein. I know it's not "correct" but I feel "whatever it takes" is okay, to stretch over her back. Note: I agree that the _bottom_ of the neck should be parallel to the ground and the horse should be really swinging into the gait for the best benefit.

Counter-bending until there's a dropping and stretching does work, just remember to give when it happens, even a little bit. It will happen more and more.

I still do mostly figures on contact, with attempts at collection, with the stretching scattered throughout the lesson. At least it's not boring to school this way.


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## Rainaisabelle

blue eyed pony said:


> Look at the shape of his neck - big difference there. The hollows behind his withers look more pronounced in the more recent photo but his neck is changing shape.


In real life I actually think his back is starting to look better like muscle is starting to raise on either side of his spine if you understand what I mean ?


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## blue eyed pony

Yeah I get your meaning, it could just be lighting and/or the angle making it look worse


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## Rainaisabelle

blue eyed pony said:


> Yeah I get your meaning, it could just be lighting and/or the angle making it look worse


I suppose the only real way to know would be to get x-Rays but at this current moment I think we will be alright lol


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## Rainaisabelle

Ladies and gents we have long and low! Today during our warm down he began to tug on the reins slightly so I let them go through my hands and he stretched all the way down it was so nice. Unfortunately no photo but progress !


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## Rainaisabelle

It looks better in the video but I call it progress he can't do it for to long because of lack of muscle but very proud


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## Saskia

Something to add, I've recently bought new reins that are about 15-20cm longer each side and they make riding much better.

My horse likes to stretch his head really far down when walking along, I think it's just to stretch out when warming up, it's not his normal way of travelling but in my previous reins he used to stretch as far as the buckle and then kind of know he is restricted and stiffen up a little. Since using my new reins, its like he knows there is more room, and is just travelling more relaxed, even when on a shorter contact. 

I've just found that so many standard reins are too short and if you're going to be doing any loose rein work, then it might be worth looking at longer reins, as in the pic yours look like they're not that long.


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## Rainaisabelle

Saskia said:


> Something to add, I've recently bought new reins that are about 15-20cm longer each side and they make riding much better.
> 
> My horse likes to stretch his head really far down when walking along, I think it's just to stretch out when warming up, it's not his normal way of travelling but in my previous reins he used to stretch as far as the buckle and then kind of know he is restricted and stiffen up a little. Since using my new reins, its like he knows there is more room, and is just travelling more relaxed, even when on a shorter contact.
> 
> I've just found that so many standard reins are too short and if you're going to be doing any loose rein work, then it might be worth looking at longer reins, as in the pic yours look like they're not that long.


They are way to short for him but I am looking for longer reins but have yet to find any.


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## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> They are way to short for him but I am looking for longer reins but have yet to find any.


I find that warmblood bridles or draft bridles have longer reins.


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## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are way to short for him but I am looking for longer reins but have yet to find any.
> 
> 
> 
> I find that warmblood bridles or draft bridles have longer reins.
Click to expand...

He is wearing a warmblood bridle lol! 
I have gotten 60" reins hopefully that will give us some more room.


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## greentree

When you are riding, lift your hands so you have a decent connection with his mouth, then think of your reins as stiff, and PUSH. When he gives to this, you give a smidge, but don't throw the reins away. Try again. Before long, he will be stretching beautifully into the bit.


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## Rainaisabelle

greentree said:


> When you are riding, lift your hands so you have a decent connection with his mouth, then think of your reins as stiff, and PUSH. When he gives to this, you give a smidge, but don't throw the reins away. Try again. Before long, he will be stretching beautifully into the bit.


As said above he's done it couple of times properly since then but I haven't been able to get photos :/ he does it easier on the lunge then while riding but getting to it. 
Unfortunately the picture above was taken when I was scratching my leg and my partner who thinks horses look exactly the same no matter what was taking the photo lol.


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## Rainaisabelle

greentree said:


> When you are riding, lift your hands so you have a decent connection with his mouth, then think of your reins as stiff, and PUSH. When he gives to this, you give a smidge, but don't throw the reins away. Try again. Before long, he will be stretching beautifully into the bit.


Also thank you  when I go to ride on Saturday I will try this! I was taught to have my reins quite low


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## Rainaisabelle

I just got my new reins ! I am going to be riding today so hopefully this will give him a bit more room!


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## DuffyDuck

Firstly, congrats on getting weight on him. He looks like a different horse.

Secondly, I would say that he does look a bit overweight right now. Couple that with a lack of muscling, my bet would be he is unbalanced.

Long and low will only work if a horse feels balanced, warm through his back and is strong enough to do so.

I would say right now, your horse only has 1/3 because I don't know how your work him.

Long and low is effectively stretching the back and neck muscles. I creak out any stiffness before I weight train or run, but I stretch when I'm finished.

Work your horse within his current fitness limits. Don't get het up on neck and head so long as he isn't throwing all his weight on his front and running like a star gazer.

Bends, transitions and correct halts will help this horse greatly. Give him a good 10 minute walk up, using serpentines and figures of 8 and circles. I'm not talking a plod, I'm talking a forward walk. Then use 15 minutes of walk and trot to do other exercises with him, throw a canter in there if you think he is ready for it. On your final trot, push for active, but don't over do it. Keep your hands at the same height, but allow them to travel forward. KEEP to big figures. Keep him bending. Don't throw the reins away, let it out cm by cm. If he brings his head up, then push the trot activeness (not faster, but "up") and continue.

I have to disagree completely with what greetree said about stiffness, pushing and letting it go bit by bit.


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## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> Firstly, congrats on getting weight on him. He looks like a different horse.
> 
> Secondly, I would say that *he does look a bit overweight right now*. Couple that with a lack of muscling, my bet would be he is unbalanced.
> 
> *Long and low will only work if a horse feels balanced, warm through his back and is strong enough to do so.*
> 
> I would say right now, your horse only has 1/3 because I don't know how your work him.
> 
> Long and low is effectively stretching the back and neck muscles. I creak out any stiffness before I weight train or run, but I stretch when I'm finished.
> 
> Work your horse within his current fitness limits. Don't get het up on neck and head so long as he isn't throwing all his weight on his front and running like a star gazer.
> 
> Bends, transitions and correct halts will help this horse greatly. Give him a good 10 minute walk up, using serpentines and figures of 8 and circles. I'm not talking a plod, I'm talking a forward walk. Then use 15 minutes of walk and trot to do other exercises with him, throw a canter in there if you think he is ready for it. On your final trot, push for active, but don't over do it. Keep your hands at the same height, but allow them to travel forward. KEEP to big figures. Keep him bending. Don't throw the reins away, let it out cm by cm. If he brings his head up, then push the trot activeness (not faster, but "up") and continue.
> 
> I have to disagree completely with what greetree said about stiffness, pushing and letting it go bit by bit.


I agree he does look fat.. but hes not as fat as he looks weirdly enough he has this weird thing with his back like hmm.. nothing bad that prohibits his work but its like when he was way skinny he just sagged? he has to do 'horse pilates' to give him the muscle to actually lift his back normally. 

On the lunge his long and low is beautiful and his back will come up and look fantastic but I think at this moment even though he tries he cant lift his back while I am riding. Kudos for trying though! We are going back to transitions only walk and trot he gets a bit unbalanced in the canter so I want to work on the w/t first before I extend it to the canter. Also at this stage I am not confident in cantering we are getting to it but it just hasn't happened yet.

I wish my instructor was still here but my agistment makes it hard to get a new instructor or even get outside help.


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## DuffyDuck

Has he been checked over by the vet and a chiro to see if there are any kinks in his back?

And lunging they always make it seem easy. They aren't carrying our weight, and we can push them forward. Lunging is probably the most effective thing you can do to help with strengthening his back up right now, I would include it at least twice in your weekly programme... or even use it to warm up.


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## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> Has he been checked over by the vet and a chiro to see if there are any kinks in his back?
> 
> And lunging they always make it seem easy. They aren't carrying our weight, and we can push them forward. Lunging is probably the most effective thing you can do to help with strengthening his back up right now, I would include it at least twice in your weekly programme... or even use it to warm up.


Both he just recently had a vet check perfectly fit for full work same with chiro all in the last fortnight. My chiro told me what it was but I can't remember but she said he would be fine with horse pilates and work.
Work:
Lunging 2x week + warmup before each ride and riding 3x week
Feed:
Equine vit and min 60g
1kg of coprice cool conditioner
1 - 2 biscuits of lucerne hay
24/7 pasture 

Feed is balanced as we used a diet analysis called FeedxL.


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## LoriF

Rainaisabelle said:


> I wouldn't say it's terrible bad sway back :/ I ask the same question to the vet every time he comes for check up if he thinks he has swayback and the vet says no every time but in my my opinion I think he does have a slight away unfortunately but it doesn't seem to affect him.


I just see high withers.


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## Rainaisabelle

LoriF said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say it's terrible bad sway back :/ I ask the same question to the vet every time he comes for check up if he thinks he has swayback and the vet says no every time but in my my opinion I think he does have a slight away unfortunately but it doesn't seem to affect him.
> 
> 
> 
> I just see high withers.
Click to expand...

I am honestly not sure what's up with that area I think maybe a bit of sway? But everyone else thinks I'm crazy. I worry about him a lot no idea why he is the most spoiled horse in the whole Agistment.


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## Rainaisabelle

I have a critique thread of you want to see it, it is under Roy.


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## Rainaisabelle

So I was practicing serpentines, figure of 8s and bending on the circle and he was still stretching down almost touching the ground pretty much and when he put his head up I pushed him even further until he continued to do it. One thing I have noticed if he does it in the walk and then you ask for a trot it seems more fluid? I am assuming this is a good thing!


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## Rainaisabelle

I also noticed white foam on his bit when I took it out I am assuming this is a good thing aswell! Yay for progress


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## Rainaisabelle

Sorry I don't have close ups :/ but I think he did really well in this session


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## Zexious

Subbing  Any way to get closer pictures?


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## Rainaisabelle

Zexious said:


> Subbing  Any way to get closer pictures?


I shall try to con my other half into being my photographer for a day !


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## Zexious

^Haha, I know that feel! It's just a little hard to judge from such a distance. Tack/clothing calends in too well haha!


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## Rainaisabelle

Zexious said:


> ^Haha, I know that feel! It's just a little hard to judge from such a distance. Tack/clothing calends in too well haha!


I know in that second picture I am leaning forward still getting used to the fact I have long reins so I don't have to lean forward to let him stretch


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## Rainaisabelle

Unfortunately my other half couldn't make it down today and it sucks as it was a good ride. I really felt that he wanted to be more active and we finally got some long and low in the trot! Although he couldn't keep it up in the trot he really tried so that is the main thing!


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## tinyliny

No worries. Stay focussed on what reLly matters; development of your training relationship with your horse


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## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> No worries. Stay focussed on what reLly matters; development of your training relationship with your horse


I think our relationship has been strengthened with the consistency of riding and working together. I mean I am there everyday but somedays its just to feed him.


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## Rainaisabelle

My other half accidentally ruined the other photos lol this is he best one of him stretching but I wish I had one from the side


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## DuffyDuck

This is looking good!

A couple of things...

Don't let yourself go because he is going. You appear to be tipping forward from your pelvis and your arms are out straight.

You are both still working. If he pulls his head up, you're not in a position to ask for him to smooth down again because you're also stretched down. Keep your body straight and your arms in position 

Looking good though, from what I can see!

Instead of pictures, could your other half make a small video? Upload to youtube and put it on here? 

It would be REALLY helpful, and the best way we can all help you 

Good work, though!


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## DuffyDuck

This is uploaded from my phone, will type more to explain after pictures are uploaded 

So this is my then 4yo who was in light work. 

It was lucky my dad had his camera, because this day and ride was amazing.

He came up himself. You'll note a slight overbend, but that is down to his greeness (and mine!) and finding his feet.

As the pictures go on, you can see him begin to stretch. The last picture was as we began our final stretch. A horse's head does not need to be by it's knees for him to work long and low. As you can see he is still in my contact, my reins are somewhat loose (some may argue too loose) but my body position is the same in case I need to correct him


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## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> This is looking good!
> 
> A couple of things...
> 
> Don't let yourself go because he is going. You appear to be tipping forward from your pelvis and your arms are out straight.
> 
> You are both still working. If he pulls his head up, you're not in a position to ask for him to smooth down again because you're also stretched down. Keep your body straight and your arms in position
> 
> Looking good though, from what I can see!
> 
> Instead of pictures, could your other half make a small video? Upload to youtube and put it on here?
> 
> It would be REALLY helpful, and the best way we can all help you
> 
> Good work, though!


Thanks yeah I feel that :/ it's a habit from when he had really short reins and I had to lean forward to let him go down.

I attached some photos from today I personally think I need to have my legs more underneath myself and my elbows more inline with my shoulder.


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## DuffyDuck

Okay. So what I can see from these pictures, he is a bit of a star gazer. 

The second picture particurlaly looks like he is "carrying" your hands away. 

There are two reasons for this. He's not working- and being idle with it, and that he isn't yet fit enough to get there. 

He must be working from behind to be able to become light in your hands. 

BUT this won't happen over night. I refer back to my first post in here. You need to build it up over time, and he will build up the muscle to be able to work well and consistently. 

In the photos I posted, Dubai worked up in the contact for maybe 5-7 minutes at a time before stretching


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## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> Okay. So what I can see from these pictures, he is a bit of a star gazer.
> 
> The second picture particurlaly looks like he is "carrying" your hands away.
> 
> *There are two reasons for this. He's not working- and being idle with it, and that he isn't yet fit enough to get there.*
> 
> He must be working from behind to be able to become light in your hands.
> 
> BUT this won't happen over night. I refer back to my first post in here. You need to build it up over time, and he will build up the muscle to be able to work well and consistently.
> 
> In the photos I posted, Dubai worked up in the contact for maybe 5-7 minutes at a time before stretching


In the walk he is at his best :/ The trot he finds hardest as he obviously has to use way more muscle in the trot to pick himself up then in the walk. Usually in the trot I might get one or two times where he actually stretches? But he can't keep it up unfortunately but that's okay every try is a good one. 

I am considering sending him to a finishing school, I love him and think we really have progressed but their are things as an intermediate rider I can't teach him. For example we were going to try a small canter today and out came that racehorse head up as high as he could get it and trying to run off. 

Could you please explain the bolded part in a bit more detail?


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## DuffyDuck

The horse has had time off, and the unsaddled photos you've posted show a distinct lack of topline.. the bread and butter of being able to have a horse that can work through it's back and through it's neck.

He looks, in the last two pictures you sent, to be doing his own thing in his own gait (again, this is why I believe a video will be ten times more beneficial for us to make a good commentary and where to go in your riding/lunging schedule. 

To be able to come up and round, and also stretch, the horse has to have a level of fitness and muscle to carry itself, otherwise it'll be unbalanced and pull on you/stick his head up/not be able to continue with the task in hand whether that be stretching or working with contact. 

It all links. 

I don't think, at this time, he needs to go to a finishing school. My advice would be to carry on riding him and get his fitness up. Otherwise you'll send him to the school and they'll spend their time doing that rather than finessing any rough edges.

With the canter.. this would be down to him being unfit, under muscled and unable to carry himself properly.. so he ran with his head up because that's what is easy for him. I wouldn't worry about canter right now, really work on walk and trot.


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## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> The horse has had time off, and the unsaddled photos you've posted show a distinct lack of topline.. the bread and butter of being able to have a horse that can work through it's back and through it's neck.
> 
> He looks, in the last two pictures you sent, to be doing his own thing in his own gait (again, this is why I believe a video will be ten times more beneficial for us to make a good commentary and where to go in your riding/lunging schedule.
> 
> To be able to come up and round, and also stretch, the horse has to have a level of fitness and muscle to carry itself, otherwise it'll be unbalanced and pull on you/stick his head up/not be able to continue with the task in hand whether that be stretching or working with contact.
> 
> It all links.
> 
> I don't think, at this time, he needs to go to a finishing school. My advice would be to carry on riding him and get his fitness up. Otherwise you'll send him to the school and they'll spend their time doing that rather than finessing any rough edges.
> 
> With the canter.. this would be down to him being unfit, under muscled and unable to carry himself properly.. so he ran with his head up because that's what is easy for him. I wouldn't worry about canter right now, really work on walk and trot.


I am happy to just walk and trot, another thing when you say he is pulling the reins out of my hands is their a way to correct that? Obviously its a bad habit he needs to get out of.


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## DuffyDuck

Work him from behind, and keep him guessing. 

Try not to work an entire loop of the schooling area in just walk or trot, add things in.. 8m circles (when he's warm), 20m circle, change through the corner, simple serpentine, three loop serpentine.. that way he is having to work himself. Transitions are also your best friend.


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## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> Work him from behind, and keep him guessing.
> 
> Try not to work an entire loop of the schooling area in just walk or trot, add things in.. 8m circles (when he's warm), 20m circle, change through the corner, simple serpentine, three loop serpentine.. that way he is having to work himself. Transitions are also your best friend.


On the weekend I will take him up to the arena and give it a try thank you! I will try and get a video


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## Rainaisabelle

One other thing I know this is about long and low but I find my TB easier to slow down when doing flat work but harder when out on trails is their a way I can correct this or some exercises


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## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> One other thing I know this is about long and low but I find my TB easier to slow down when doing flat work but harder when out on trails is their a way I can correct this or some exercises


Trails are exciting, arena is boring. Horses are generally more excited to be on trails since they can move forward without being blocked by an arena boundary. Plus there is wildlife and grass and sights and sounds


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## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> One other thing I know this is about long and low but I find my TB easier to slow down when doing flat work but harder when out on trails is their a way I can correct this or some exercises
> 
> 
> 
> Trails are exciting, arena is boring. Horses are generally more excited to be on trails since they can move forward without being blocked by an arena boundary. Plus there is wildlife and grass and sights and sounds
Click to expand...

Yes trails and working in our paddocks are totally different I should have recognised that what I am worried about is that I ended up having to do a one rein stop which I have never had to do on him before I mean he wasn't taking off but he was in an almost frantic state. After a certain part though he was okay started to calm down. 

I am considering sending him to finishing school once he is a bit fitter.


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## greentree

Is he in a bitless bridle? You look good together!


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## Rainaisabelle

greentree said:


> Is he in a bitless bridle? You look good together!


Thank you lol, No he isn't I don't think he has been trained to one or even tried in one. He is currently in a loose ring french link snaffle.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I think he has gained a bit of muscle tone? Or it could just be me 

First pic 3rd of August and 2nd today


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I found this photo the other day, not sure if it's any better obviously same problem as last photo but thought this one was a bit better


----------



## greentree

Rainaisabelle said:


> I found this photo the other day, not sure if it's any better obviously same problem as last photo but thought this one was a bit better


What a lovely hind leg reach!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

greentree said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I found this photo the other day, not sure if it's any better obviously same problem as last photo but thought this one was a bit better
> 
> 
> 
> What a lovely hind leg reach!!
Click to expand...

Really ? I always thought it looked a bit strange lol


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Picture from today when my friend was riding during the warm down . I also cantered today ! Which speak you may know is an extremely big deal for me!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Rainaisabelle said:


> Picture from today when my friend was riding during the warm down . I also cantered today ! Which speak you may know is an extremely big deal for me!


*some also I know she should have kept constant contact but she was just having some fun and he was stretching way down during the warm down


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Ugh guys, I have problems again! We have been doing beautifully with long and low but I can't get him to canter for me! My friend will get on and he will canter but for me he refuses and when I used the crop he kicked out and at one point last week he pigrooted.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Ugh guys, I have problems again! We have been doing beautifully with long and low but I can't get him to canter for me! My friend will get on and he will canter but for me he refuses and when I used the crop he kicked out and at one point last week he pigrooted.


Have you asked your friend what she does differently?

Also have you checked tack fit? Sometimes different weights or body types sit the saddle differently and it can cause issues.

Do you feel any fear when you desire to canter?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh guys, I have problems again! We have been doing beautifully with long and low but I can't get him to canter for me! My friend will get on and he will canter but for me he refuses and when I used the crop he kicked out and at one point last week he pigrooted.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you asked your friend what she does differently?
> 
> Also have you checked tack fit? Sometimes different weights or body types sit the saddle differently and it can cause issues.
> 
> Do you feel any fear when you desire to canter?
Click to expand...

1. She has been riding a lot longer then me. Our first lesson was that I was asking him to slow down rather then speed up but I still managed to canter him. My friend believes it could also be mindset that I am used to asking him to slow down rather then speed up.

2. All tack fits and vet/chiropractic work are up to date

3. I used to but not so much now he just continually slows down and I can't use a crop now. I have tried leaning forward or even in 2 point.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I have tried leaning forward or even in 2 point.


Sometimes those aren't conducive ways to ask for canter if your horse is having issues picking it up. Going into two point, you might not be as balanced as you feel and it could be affecting your horse. Same with leaning forward. It definitely can be a mind set, and it's better to drive forward with all your aids in my experience. Legs (make sure there is no pinching) and seat following... with no backward motion of the reins. 

You'll get it, you just have to want it badly enough to get your horse to work with you


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Sometimes those aren't conducive ways to ask for canter if your horse is having issues picking it up. Going into two point, you might not be as balanced as you feel and it could be affecting your horse. Same with leaning forward. It definitely can be a mind set, and it's better to drive forward with all your aids in my experience. Legs (make sure there is no pinching) and seat following... with no backward motion of the reins.
> 
> You'll get it, you just have to want it badly enough to get your horse to work with you


I think I could accidentally be pulling back on the reins.. unintentionally..

The problem is that he has no problems picking up a canter for my friend but won't do it for me...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

About to go back into work after over a month off ahhhhh

Goals for this month are:
Getting more forward in walk and trot 
Getting on the bit just a bit
Working on keeping long and low
Practicing the canter 

Doing more figure 8s, serpentines and squares!


----------



## Boo Walker

You may want to try having your friend hold you on the lunge line to practice canter. That way you can hold on to the front or the back of the saddle (try each one, you will feel different parts of the horses' gait), and even ride the canter with your arms held out from your body. You can also be free of reins so you won't interfere with your horses' mouth. It takes awhile, but this way your friend can use the lunge whip to encourage your horse into maintaining the canter and you can concentrate on how the different speeds feel, where your center of balance is, etc. It's a great tool!

For getting on the bit, riding long and low: I would start from the halt, pick up the reins and find the spot where your horse begins to brace against your hands. Hold this point and don't move until your horse gives his head. He may fidget and squirm, but don't give until you get softness, then immediately give him slack (that's the reward). Repeat until each time you pick up the reins, your horse will soften to your hands. It's important to not get angry, no bumping or jerking on the reins, just set that physical boundary and wait for your horse to find the sweet spot of release. 
Now do the same thing at a walk asking at first for just short periods of being soft and "on the bit". As he improves, advance these skills to the trot then canter. 
It takes a while to do, you have to be consistent, and your horse has to build up the necessary muscles to hold this form.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Boo Walker said:


> You may want to try having your friend hold you on the lunge line to practice canter. That way you can hold on to the front or the back of the saddle (try each one, you will feel different parts of the horses' gait), and even ride the canter with your arms held out from your body. You can also be free of reins so you won't interfere with your horses' mouth. It takes awhile, but this way your friend can use the lunge whip to encourage your horse into maintaining the canter and you can concentrate on how the different speeds feel, where your center of balance is, etc. It's a great tool!
> 
> For getting on the bit, riding long and low: I would start from the halt, pick up the reins and find the spot where your horse begins to brace against your hands. Hold this point and don't move until your horse gives his head. He may fidget and squirm, but don't give until you get softness, then immediately give him slack (that's the reward). Repeat until each time you pick up the reins, your horse will soften to your hands. It's important to not get angry, no bumping or jerking on the reins, just set that physical boundary and wait for your horse to find the sweet spot of release.
> Now do the same thing at a walk asking at first for just short periods of being soft and "on the bit". As he improves, advance these skills to the trot then canter.
> It takes a while to do, you have to be consistent, and your horse has to build up the necessary muscles to hold this form.


I haven't ridden in 6 weeks so I shall see how we go.

We've stopped lunging as he's just too burnt out when it comes to lunging and has started to kick out at the whip and just in general chucking a fit.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We went back today and he did alright. He was quite forward and didn't really want to give me a halt so instead of my usual frustration when he doesn't want to stop I decided to use it and we did loads of figure of 8s and serpentines.

Still having trouble with the long and low he will do it but as soon as I ask for him to be a bit more active he puts his head back up.

Any idea what to do?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I have some actions shots ! I am a bit proud of them


----------



## DuffyDuck

The last picture is the best... because you still have a contact to the rein 

Don't let him hang. You may discover as you start to ask him to come back up that he hangs on the reins because he's quite happy with his head down there! Keeping this contact to the reins throughout will also encourage him to drop when you ask for more impulsion.

Remember long and low doesn't mean his head has to be by his knees, it's stretching down and forward as apposed to dropping.

It's looking much better, though! Well done!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> The last picture is the best... because you still have a contact to the rein
> 
> Don't let him hang. You may discover as you start to ask him to come back up that he hangs on the reins because he's quite happy with his head down there! Keeping this contact to the reins throughout will also encourage him to drop when you ask for more impulsion.
> 
> Remember long and low doesn't mean his head has to be by his knees, it's stretching down and forward as apposed to dropping.
> 
> It's looking much better, though! Well done!


I keep forgetting to not just let it go but let him kind of pull it down? :icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:

The 2nd one I don't really think of as long and low but I'm not sure sometimes in the trot he will drop his head like that but not keep it for long.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Sorry for the uh crappy quality atleast my partner took the right photos this time though !


----------



## DuffyDuck

So I can clearly see from these photos that he has too much weight on the forehand.

His neck and head weight a lot. It's easy for him to "dump" on the forehand and pull his head down. You're trying to work him from behind which will always have to come first before asking him to stretch.

Think about when you work out. Go for a run, or a spin class. You warm up, do your exercise, and then stretch the muscles. Asking for long and low, IMO, is the same. You have worked the horse (it doesn't need to be at the end though, as I've said previously I only ask horses I'm working with or younger horses to work "up" for 5-7 minutes of intensity before giving them a long and low STRETCH to let their muscles rest and give them a break. Long and low should be seen as a stretch. In these pictures he isn't working, he's plodding and stretching his head down which int he long run could result in him keeping his head there and hanging on the reins when you want him up.

You need to get him warm, working and working from behind. I'm not expecting masses of collection or a prime dressage horse, but you need to think about where his balance is. Ideally it should be 60% back 40 % front. Right now he's 60% front, add a head and neck and he's just dragging his head down there. Try and make the front less. Again, this will only work when your programme includes lots of circles, serpentines.. and transitions. Proper transitiong. Walk, trot, walk, stand, trot. Don't even worry about the canter. My best guess right now is he can't canter because he has too much weight on the fore. 

Scrap the term long and low. I think you're confusing stretching with head to knees. I don't mind a long rein after a good work out, but that's not your aim.

Think of it as stretching (not hanging!!) in to the reins. That when you give your hands that .5cm forward, he keeps with you and stays on the contact and stretches down, not take advantage and fling his head up. And when he does, inside leg to outside rein and squeeze him in to it.

You mentioned your friend can canter him, can she also get him to stretch?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not in the canter I don't think not that I have seen him do anyway he likes to bring his head down. She always says though in the canter he is very powerful.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

http://youtu.be/IzzNm7xqCGg 

So this is the video of me riding today it's probably less then perfect but you only learn by getting critique from people more experienced. 
I have picked out maybe a couple of mistakes that I made 

1. Asked for more forward 
2. Had a bit more contact with his mouth


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Agreed that your reins should have been a tad shorter as you aren't giving him anything to work into. You're also posting without any momentum of his trot. Switch diagonals and let him propel you up. If he isn't forward enough, then it won't work.

Bend your elbows, too.

I like your downward transition aside from his face going every which away, but I think it comes down to contact again

You just have a few tweaks to make and things will improve


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Agreed that your reins should have been a tad shorter as you aren't giving him anything to work into. You're also posting without any momentum of his trot. Switch diagonals and let him propel you up. If he isn't forward enough, then it won't work.
> 
> Bend your elbows, too.
> 
> I like your downward transition aside from his face going every which away, but I think it comes down to contact again
> 
> You just have a few tweaks to make and things will improve


I agree with all of it and thank you I think slowing down is definitely my strong point  yeah he has this thing where he thinks if he puts his nose towards the shelter I will go that way.

Yeah I find sometimes rewatching myself riding that sometimes I'm rising but the horses isn't actually going really that fast.

I will try with the elbow part, I recently fractured my radius so keeping it bent can be a bit of a struggle but I'll try my best! 


I just want to clarify that I am aware that him having his head down does not mean he's doing something correctly obviously though I am having trouble with long and low but he was a 'star gazer' and liked to morph into a giraffe so just putting it down is a huge achievement.


Um so tips to getting him off the forehand ? In our usually daily routine it's like 
10mins warmup usually just active walking
25mins circles & figure of 8s (will add in serpentines) 
10mins trot poles? ( added in for as per chirps reccomendation )
10 mins cool down 

Not all of that is necessarily in that order


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I wouldn't have such a long walk warmup. It's an easy way for them to lose focus and drive to move forward. I used to do the same thing with my horse, but now I focus on a few laps of walk doing figures especially spirals and serpentines. I slowly gather up the reins so that by the time I'm ready to move up a gait, I don't have to make drastic changes in rein length. Then I do a long trot each direction with proper rein length, and then give him a break at walk with a loose rein. Then we go into figures and I pick up trot again and then I am incorporating trot walk walk trot transitions. every 10 strides, then every 5 strides, then I do another long trot and work on some lateral work. Then more trot walk walk trot transitions. Then another break at the halt. I try to halt him square in the front (we're working on all 4 square but he's a sneaky one foot moves after halt-er) 

I change directions often to work both sides. I start off with his tougher direction and then switch to his easier direction and always end on a good note regardless of which direction I'm going.

You can incorporate trot poles after you've done a long trot around so that by then he's warmed up. Trot poles then lateral movements so that he isn't stiff by then and can happily work on that.

You can even try to ask for canter going over one trot pole on it's own. I asked my boy last night and he was nervous about cantering with me since it's been so long so that's something we are also working on.

Make sure to have good bending and to change it up often. Even on the long trot I am incorporating figures. Don't forget to practice that turn from short side to centerline


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> I wouldn't have such a long walk warmup. It's an easy way for them to lose focus and drive to move forward. I used to do the same thing with my horse, but now I focus on a few laps of walk doing figures especially spirals and serpentines. I slowly gather up the reins so that by the time I'm ready to move up a gait, I don't have to make drastic changes in rein length. Then I do a long trot each direction with proper rein length, and then give him a break at walk with a loose rein. Then we go into figures and I pick up trot again and then I am incorporating trot walk walk trot transitions. every 10 strides, then every 5 strides, then I do another long trot and work on some lateral work. Then more trot walk walk trot transitions. Then another break at the halt. I try to halt him square in the front (we're working on all 4 square but he's a sneaky one foot moves after halt-er)
> 
> I change directions often to work both sides. I start off with his tougher direction and then switch to his easier direction and always end on a good note regardless of which direction I'm going.
> 
> You can incorporate trot poles after you've done a long trot around so that by then he's warmed up. Trot poles then lateral movements so that he isn't stiff by then and can happily work on that.
> 
> You can even try to ask for canter going over one trot pole on it's own. I asked my boy last night and he was nervous about cantering with me since it's been so long so that's something we are also working on.
> 
> Make sure to have good bending and to change it up often. Even on the long trot I am incorporating figures. Don't forget to practice that turn from short side to centerline


I shall give it go the next time I ride will be Sunday. I am trying to give him atleast 1 day between rides because I found the last time before I injured myself and I was riding probably 5 days a week he was getting burnt out quite quickly and became quite grumpy and unwilling.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Don't forget to pat and give scratches when he does good. When my horse gets into a good forward swinging and loose yet on the bit and through working position, I use my inside hand to gently scratch at his withers which he loves.

When I give him walk breaks I keep contact for a good 5 strides and then he gets loose rein and lots of pats.

Well timed and proper praise goes a long way!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Don't forget to pat and give scratches when he does good. When my horse gets into a good forward swinging and loose yet on the bit and through working position, I use my inside hand to gently scratch at his withers which he loves.
> 
> When I give him walk breaks I keep contact for a good 5 strides and then he gets loose rein and lots of pats.
> 
> Well timed and proper praise goes a long way!


I actually in the video when he dropped his head at the end given him a big pat but I edited it out as you can hear me say extremely loudly Good boy !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Sigh,
We had the saddle fitter out today and unfortunately he needs a whole new saddle as this one does not fit at all and the saddle fitter believes this could contribute to a few problems we have been having. Luckily though we found out and it means that we can really get stuck into it once we get this new saddle but it will take up to a month or so.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Well here's a picture of me riding in my new saddle ! It's highly adjustable for when he fills out . My instructor who is also my saddle fitter ... Gave me a sort of lesson and man was it hard ? We had a few hiccups nothing serious but it is different for us so we are retraining myself and Roy. 

We had one major spook because of a guy on a quad bike coming past and revving up his engine, luckily I managed to stay on although it's not the worst spook I have sat.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here's the actual saddle !


----------



## Corporal

I am troubled that this type of training will be abused and go the way of the "crest release," widely misunderstood, way overused, and poorly misapplied.

Unless you are engaging the HQ's at the same time that you ask a horse to drop his head and stretch his neck, you can encourage your horse to throw his weight on the forehand. I discourage this. I would suggest, instead, that you work on outdoor exercises on the trail, walking up slopes, lots and lots and lots of upward and downward transitions on a loose rein. Most especially you should spend an adequate amount of time teaching your horse to whoa from just the seat and weight OR just the voice. Creating the brakes from the HQ's is the very best way to keep your horse from falling forward at the halt. The only arena exercises I would suggest at cavaletti at the 2nd or 3rd rail setting. Here:
http://www.horse-today.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/259-001-483_web.jpg

is what it looks like when your horse is both striding the rear legs forward, reaching over the cavaletti AND dropping the head and neck down, thus rounding the back.
My QH, "Buster Brown", at times, tries to evade the bit. (My training sessions are few and far between.) He learned this from the rescue who put idiots on his back and they leaned on the reins. I let him do it, he goes a few strides and trips. Then he comes back into my hands and carries his head and neck so as to balance the both of us.
Beginning collection can be seen by the head held higher than the "long and low" and the nose tips forward.
http://jdotstables.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Cavaletti.jpg
You know your horse is beginning to collect because you can feel the back roach up and the hind legs stride under more and more.
The one reason we teach collection is to keep the front legs from wearing out prematurely.
I think you should be very careful how you do this. I suggest having a helper take video, so that you can watch your horse and make sure that you are getting the results that you want.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Corporal said:


> I am troubled that this type of training will be abused and go the way of the "crest release," widely misunderstood, way overused, and poorly misapplied.
> 
> Unless you are engaging the HQ's at the same time that you ask a horse to drop his head and stretch his neck, you can encourage your horse to throw his weight on the forehand. I discourage this. I would suggest, instead, that you work on outdoor exercises on the trail, walking up slopes, lots and lots and lots of upward and downward transitions on a loose rein. Most especially you should spend an adequate amount of time teaching your horse to whoa from just the seat and weight OR just the voice. Creating the brakes from the HQ's is the very best way to keep your horse from falling forward at the halt. The only arena exercises I would suggest at cavaletti at the 2nd or 3rd rail setting. Here:
> http://www.horse-today.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/259-001-483_web.jpg
> 
> is what it looks like when your horse is both striding the rear legs forward, reaching over the cavaletti AND dropping the head and neck down, thus rounding the back.
> My QH, "Buster Brown", at times, tries to evade the bit. (My training sessions are few and far between.) He learned this from the rescue who put idiots on his back and they leaned on the reins. I let him do it, he goes a few strides and trips. Then he comes back into my hands and carries his head and neck so as to balance the both of us.
> Beginning collection can be seen by the head held higher than the "long and low" and the nose tips forward.
> http://jdotstables.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Cavaletti.jpg
> You know your horse is beginning to collect because you can feel the back roach up and the hind legs stride under more and more.
> The one reason we teach collection is to keep the front legs from wearing out prematurely.
> I think you should be very careful how you do this. I suggest having a helper take video, so that you can watch your horse and make sure that you are getting the results that you want.


Sorry are you answering the original question or another one ? I actually have an instructor now which makes everything easier as I have structured learning. I wanted to keep posting in this thread as a way of updating people on my progress


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I had a good ride today! I don't think I achieved everything but this new saddle is extremely comfortable and I feel like he is less restricted !


----------



## tinyliny

Sweet!

Try sliding that saddle back, an inch or so.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Try sliding that saddle back, an inch or so.


Yeah I readjusted it after the photo was taken because the saddle pad had slipped over.


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

It's always exciting getting new gear  

His condition is looking a whole lot better, he is looking really nice. Has he pigrooted since the new saddle? With getting a greater level of fitness he could just be testing you a bit - just feeling his energy. While his condition was low he probably used all his energy to do what you required, but now he is starting to get a sense of himself, and feeling good about it.

He has come a long way since your first pics.

:gallop:


----------



## Rainaisabelle

ShirtHotTeez said:


> It's always exciting getting new gear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His condition is looking a whole lot better, he is looking really nice. Has he pigrooted since the new saddle? With getting a greater level of fitness he could just be testing you a bit - just feeling his energy. While his condition was low he probably used all his energy to do what you required, but now he is starting to get a sense of himself, and feeling good about it.
> 
> He has come a long way since your first pics.


No, I don't think the pig rooting was due to the saddle although it was a bad fit he is to much of a gentlemen to be outwardly rude if you know what I mean? 

I believe the pig rooting was due to being on a lunge line for to long while I was riding and trying to get him to canter. My new trainer loves him thinks he's a true gentlemen and thinks he's a gem which I think he is as well but I think I was a bit harsher on him then I should have been. 

My first lesson on him with the new saddle was very rough but that was because we are learning a different way of riding which he is coping with but still it is hard for him so we are doing inhand work in conjunction with it.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Another ride today as it has warmed up and everything has dried ! It was okay, I am still getting used to keeping my elbows up and keeping contact! Although we are getting there and I can't wait to get another lesson from my instructor.


----------



## Jan1975

He looks fantastic and you look great on him! I'm glad your new trainer is able to help so much and that things are coming along.


----------



## Zexious

Look'n good! ^^


----------



## Skyseternalangel

That looks a thousand times better, he's actually reaching down and into the contact in all of those photos!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Jan1975 said:


> He looks fantastic and you look great on him! I'm glad your new trainer is able to help so much and that things are coming along.





Zexious said:


> Look'n good! ^^





Skyseternalangel said:


> That looks a thousand times better, he's actually reaching down and into the contact in all of those photos!


Aw thanks guys! I think some of it is to do with the new saddle allowing him to be able to stretch down ! I can't wait to see him finished though !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm starting a new workout routine with Roy.
3 days riding 
1 day jogging 
1 day in hand
Although if I can't ride 3 days then 2 days jogging he really likes it and I find I am also getting fit in the progress. While running beside him I really saw the TB in him but also how big he actually is!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Rainaisabelle said:


> I had a good ride today! I don't think I achieved everything but this new saddle is extremely comfortable and I feel like he is less restricted !


Out of curiosity if someone can answer in the second photo is he overbent? if so what should I do? Should I push him forward when he does it?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Oop didn't post ..


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Out of curiosity if someone can answer in the second photo is he overbent? if so what should I do? Should I push him forward when he does it?


He's BTV and he needs more leg and less hand

Try riding him FORWARD more into a very soft but consistent contact


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity if someone can answer in the second photo is he overbent? if so what should I do? Should I push him forward when he does it?
> 
> 
> 
> He's BTV and he needs more leg and less hand
> 
> Try riding him FORWARD more into a very soft but consistent contact
Click to expand...

That's what I thought as well he does it sometimes when asked for bend. If I'm correct when he does it I should push him more forward ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'll get help of course but I'm having trouble with this whole impulsive thing. I know it's to push a horse forward into soft contact but I'm just having trouble really pushing him into it.


----------



## greentree

I would move my shoulders back a good bit, so that you can influence his rear with your hips. Look between his ears, not down at his shoulders. This will also help lift your hands. 

Practice letting your hips really SWING and be loose as he walks. Then stiffen them, then let them loose, so that you can feel the difference. Once you get this, concentrate on the DIFFERENCE you Feel in him. 

All the best!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

greentree said:


> I would move my shoulders back a good bit, so that you can influence his rear with your hips. Look between his ears, not down at his shoulders. This will also help lift your hands.
> 
> Practice letting your hips really SWING and be loose as he walks. Then stiffen them, then let them loose, so that you can feel the difference. Once you get this, concentrate on the DIFFERENCE you Feel in him.
> 
> All the best!!


Definitely something I have to work on is looking up when I ride instead of digging to China


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> That's what I thought as well he does it sometimes when asked for bend. If I'm correct when he does it I should push him more forward ?
> 
> I'll get help of course but I'm having trouble with this whole impulsive thing. I know it's to push a horse forward into soft contact but I'm just having trouble really pushing him into it.


When you ask for bend, can you describe what you do to me please?

If you even look at the picture, see how little he is stepping under himself? That means you need more leg! 



greentree said:


> I would move my shoulders back a good bit, so that you can influence his rear with your hips. Look between his ears, not down at his shoulders. This will also help lift your hands.
> 
> Practice letting your hips really SWING and be loose as he walks. Then stiffen them, then let them loose, so that you can feel the difference. Once you get this, concentrate on the DIFFERENCE you Feel in him.
> 
> All the best!!


Yes, this is brilliant advice. 

The only thing I want to add is forearms bending and stuck to the sides of your body when you are riding as to stay more consistent and then you can easily use your core


----------



## Corporal

It's not impulsive, it is Impulsion. Think of revving up the motor in a car and they releasing forward. ALL motion originates from the HQ's, so strengthening the HQ's creates impulsion, lifting the forhand and collection and keeps those front legs from wearing out.
I think that this horse is a great fit for you! I really do not like seeing his head forward and down. It is putting too much weight on the forhand. Reaching for the bit works better lunging with a bridle and saddle and letting him find the bit and balance that way. 
He is resisting a frame and balance by nosing forward AND by evading the bit being BTV.
Consider working up and down a lot of hills while riding, AT THE WALK so he has to really work those HQ's, and many, many downward transitions, and using the half halt as a preparation and pre-cue to upward transitions.
He will brake with the HQ's and build them up. He looks really beefy but with strong HQ's you can really start working at your sport.
My original herd were also my school horses. They worked over 1,000 hours under saddle every year and were in top shape. ALL of them were easy to collect because they had the muscle. My lessons were in a small, outdoor arena and they did tons of transitions every week. You should also build at least one cavaletti, and really feel how your horse balances trotting over it. Cavaletti teach horses how to reach forward with their back hooves and stride underneath themselves. Take pictures, too. Here are examples (and I ALWAYS look for the best riders that I can find):
Notice the slack rein and how her horse has thrown his balance back to the HQ's?
http://blog.equishop.com/pl/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/bildschirmfoto-2014-01-14-um-13-14-42.png
THIS is as long and low as he should ever get under saddle.
http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Ingrid5.jpg
NOT my photo--even my pony, Toma, picked up his feet like this, when worked over cavaletti.
http://horsetipdaily.horseradionetw...aletti-trot-poles-source-dressagearenanet.jpg
BTW, I bought him as a 15yo, he had been a runaway rental horse, heavy on the forhand, and by his mid-twenties he had worn out his front legs, despite my training. We retired him and cared for him until he died as a 35yo.
You really don't want to wear out the front legs.
I love to read your thread! Keep working. **hugs**


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Corporal said:


> It's not impulsive, it is Impulsion. Think of revving up the motor in a car and they releasing forward. ALL motion originates from the HQ's, so strengthening the HQ's creates impulsion, lifting the forhand and collection and keeps those front legs from wearing out.
> I think that this horse is a great fit for you! I really do not like seeing his head forward and down. It is putting too much weight on the forhand. Reaching for the bit works better lunging with a bridle and saddle and letting him find the bit and balance that way.
> He is resisting a frame and balance by nosing forward AND by evading the bit being BTV.
> Consider working up and down a lot of hills while riding, AT THE WALK so he has to really work those HQ's, and many, many downward transitions, and using the half halt as a preparation and pre-cue to upward transitions.
> He will brake with the HQ's and build them up. He looks really beefy but with strong HQ's you can really start working at your sport.
> My original herd were also my school horses. They worked over 1,000 hours under saddle every year and were in top shape. ALL of them were easy to collect because they had the muscle. My lessons were in a small, outdoor arena and they did tons of transitions every week. You should also build at least one cavaletti, and really feel how your horse balances trotting over it. Cavaletti teach horses how to reach forward with their back hooves and stride underneath themselves. Take pictures, too. Here are examples (and I ALWAYS look for the best riders that I can find):
> Notice the slack rein and how her horse has thrown his balance back to the HQ's?
> http://blog.equishop.com/pl/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/bildschirmfoto-2014-01-14-um-13-14-42.png
> THIS is as long and low as he should ever get under saddle.
> http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Ingrid5.jpg
> NOT my photo--even my pony, Toma, picked up his feet like this, when worked over cavaletti.
> http://horsetipdaily.horseradionetw...aletti-trot-poles-source-dressagearenanet.jpg
> BTW, I bought him as a 15yo, he had been a runaway rental horse, heavy on the forhand, and by his mid-twenties he had worn out his front legs, despite my training. We retired him and cared for him until he died as a 35yo.
> You really don't want to wear out the front legs.
> I love to read your thread! Keep working. **hugs**


I meant impulsion sorry my phone autocorrected it to impulsive which is weird.. Thank you! I do have trot poles we got them when he needed chiro work so I can definitely make some into calvettis which was my plan!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I thought as well he does it sometimes when asked for bend. If I'm correct when he does it I should push him more forward ?
> 
> I'll get help of course but I'm having trouble with this whole impulsive thing. I know it's to push a horse forward into soft contact but I'm just having trouble really pushing him into it.
> 
> 
> 
> When you ask for bend, can you describe what you do to me please?
> 
> If you even look at the picture, see how little he is stepping under himself? That means you need more leg!
> 
> 
> 
> greentree said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would move my shoulders back a good bit, so that you can influence his rear with your hips. Look between his ears, not down at his shoulders. This will also help lift your hands.
> 
> Practice letting your hips really SWING and be loose as he walks. Then stiffen them, then let them loose, so that you can feel the difference. Once you get this, concentrate on the DIFFERENCE you Feel in him.
> 
> All the best!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, this is brilliant advice.
> 
> The only thing I want to add is forearms bending and stuck to the sides of your body when you are riding as to stay more consistent and then you can easily use your core
Click to expand...

Okay I'll try to explain it but honestly it may be completely off to what I actually do. 

So basically I hold the reins with thumbs on top and when I want bend I basically sort of turn my hand until my fingernails are facing upwards.. This could be completely wrong to how I'm actually supposed to be doing it. I haven't had another lesson yet as its been Christmas and the New Years and I really only had one lesson on this type of riding. 


My instructor says the same thing keep my forearms on my sides and let my elbow go with him when walks.


The one thing I hate is nagging. I don't like to nag but I feel like I can't get him to where he needs to be. I can't use a crop because he gets crappy but I also don't like to boot him either. Sometimes he gives nice floaty smooth transitions other times it's like ugh okay.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Okay I'll try to explain it but honestly it may be completely off to what I actually do.
> 
> So basically I hold the reins with thumbs on top and when I want bend I basically sort of turn my hand until my fingernails are facing upwards.. This could be completely wrong to how I'm actually supposed to be doing it. I haven't had another lesson yet as its been Christmas and the New Years and I really only had one lesson on this type of riding.
> 
> 
> My instructor says the same thing keep my forearms on my sides and let my elbow go with him when walks.
> 
> 
> The one thing I hate is nagging. I don't like to nag but I feel like I can't get him to where he needs to be. I can't use a crop because he gets crappy but I also don't like to boot him either. Sometimes he gives nice floaty smooth transitions other times it's like ugh okay.


Okay... I am going to suggest a different way

Inside leg, outside rein, and a gentle opening and squeeze of the inside rein to bend to the inside.

Outside leg to inside rein, and a gentle opening and squeeze of the outside rein to bend to the outside.

If you need to change just the way the horse is looking, say they are looking too much to the inside, bring the outside rein softly towards the wither and check that your inside rein is not open. It should be parallel to the horse's neck.

To ask the horse to look more to the inside, simply open the inside rein softly. The outside rein should be parallel to the horse's neck.

Some horses aren't as sensitive as others, but we are aiming to be as minimal with our cues to be as effective as possible. Squeezing is MUCH quieter than turning your wrist upwards, not to mention better on your hands, but you need to have your FORWARD first. I know that Jane SaVoie uses that methods but I think it's 'too loud' in terms of the effect it has on the bit.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I'll try to explain it but honestly it may be completely off to what I actually do.
> 
> So basically I hold the reins with thumbs on top and when I want bend I basically sort of turn my hand until my fingernails are facing upwards.. This could be completely wrong to how I'm actually supposed to be doing it. I haven't had another lesson yet as its been Christmas and the New Years and I really only had one lesson on this type of riding.
> 
> 
> My instructor says the same thing keep my forearms on my sides and let my elbow go with him when walks.
> 
> 
> The one thing I hate is nagging. I don't like to nag but I feel like I can't get him to where he needs to be. I can't use a crop because he gets crappy but I also don't like to boot him either. Sometimes he gives nice floaty smooth transitions other times it's like ugh okay.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay... I am going to suggest a different way
> 
> Inside leg, outside rein, and a gentle opening and squeeze of the inside rein to bend to the inside.
> 
> Outside leg to inside rein, and a gentle opening and squeeze of the outside rein to bend to the outside.
> 
> If you need to change just the way the horse is looking, say they are looking too much to the inside, bring the outside rein softly towards the wither and check that your inside rein is not open. It should be parallel to the horse's neck.
> 
> To ask the horse to look more to the inside, simply open the inside rein softly. The outside rein should be parallel to the horse's neck.
> 
> Some horses aren't as sensitive as others, but we are aiming to be as minimal with our cues to be as effective as possible. Squeezing is MUCH quieter than turning your wrist upwards, not to mention better on your hands, but you need to have your FORWARD first. I know that Jane SaVoie uses that methods but I think it's 'too loud' in terms of the effect it has on the bit.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling I am doing it wrong though.. Keep in mind I've only had one lesson and it was a lot to take in so it could actually be what you're saying and I have just interpreted it differently afterwards and gotten the wrong idea in my head.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I will give what you're saying a go though !


----------



## greentree

Skyseternalangel said:


> When you ask for bend, can you describe what you do to me please?
> 
> If you even look at the picture, see how little he is stepping under himself? That means you need more leg!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, this is brilliant advice.
> 
> The only thing I want to add is forearms bending and stuck to the sides of your body when you are riding as to stay more consistent and then you can easily use your core


Yes, agreed! For this last bit of advice, the biomechanics clinician I had said " it feels like your elbows are sitting on your hipbones." But I think you need to move your body back and get a really loose armed contact to correct that BTV, and increase his hind leg activity first.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm going to ride today and I'll get some photos and see what I can do


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Ugh so today just was not my day with him he didn't want to trot even when pushed into it he wouldn't stay for long. When he would slow I would squeeze him to ask him to keep going and he would just go into the walk. 

I have a feeling it's 1 of 2 things 
1. He is over due for a trim I'm just waiting for trimmer to get back and I have noticed him trip a bit.
2. The mosquitos and flies are absolutely horrible and are just sticking to him and me even after spraying. 

I'm going to wait until after a trim to see how he goes as I know he is perfectly capable of going forward when asked.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Sorry your ride didn't go as planned. Hopefully a fresh trim helps!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Can't have it my way all the time! It could have been me though.. I'll post some photos but I don't think the ride went very well.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Please ignore the saddle pad after the pictures were taken I fixed it.. And it wasn't until the end of the ride -.- I was listening to music during this ride I thought it might help with my energy but obviously not...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Had another ride today but I just walked. I feel like we should get forward and suppleness at the wall first before we move on to the trot at this point ! He did act up a bit when I picked up the crop but I know he's trying to dominant .


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Took him on a jog today and he loves it. I did something I don't usually do but I looped the rope around his neck and just kept walking and he followed and then I tried to jog and he followed it was really fun!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Did some in hand work with the cavesson


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I forgot my saddle pad today whoops so I decided to try bareback again. He's had his feet trimmed so he was a lot more willing to trot when asked but I am still having trouble with this forward things and my arms I'm trying to remember to keep them at my sides but man it's hard !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I am considering maybe getting this moved this to members journals as I would like to keep it going as like a progression journal type thing


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Does anyone know how to get it moved also ?


----------



## Jan1975

Rainaisabelle said:


> Does anyone know how to get it moved also ?


You could use the "report" button on this thread and ask a moderator to do it.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Whoo a journal of my own! Very excited. I think even though this started as a question it sort of became more about our progress so I want to document our progress over the next year as I think this year is going to be fantastic!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy was not keen to go for a ride in the pouring rain so I thought why not just play in the paddock and he was happy to join in 

http://youtu.be/oVY7dkD9XD0


----------



## LoriF

I haven't been over to this thread in a while, but wanted to tell you that you guys look great. Roy has come quite a ways from the beginning. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

LoriF said:


> I haven't been over to this thread in a while, but wanted to tell you that you guys look great. Roy has come quite a ways from the beginning. Keep up the good work.


Thank you! He has gained some muscle tone but we still have a long way to go but it is coming together


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Well I haven't ridden much as I have been working and it's been disgusting outside always raining. I managed to sneak in a trail ride on Australia Day where I rode on a loose rein and he was actually really good ! He kept his head down and just kept walking. 

On the way back though I had to be careful as he got a bit sensitive and wanted to go back to the paddock so I made him walk back and forth Infront of the back gate and he eventually got the picture. 

I jumped off and walked him back up to the shelter and he didn't even need to hold him he followed me and stood at the container for me to untack him!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Today was amazing, I mean we may not have entirely accomplished anything but he really tried for me and we even kept up a trot. I was firmer with him today as he start to slow down I would give him a bit of a kick. I like to use the lightest cue first which is what I did but if started to slow I have him a kick and he would smarten up a bit and start listening to my light cues


----------



## DuffyDuck

That first picture.. wow!! Look how far you have come!!

I'd still like to see less slack in the reins and hands more forward and up but he's really coming through for you!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DuffyDuck said:


> That first picture.. wow!! Look how far you have come!!
> 
> I'd still like to see less slack in the reins and hands more forward and up but he's really coming through for you!!


Thank you ! Now I know we've spoke. About slack reins before but this is what my instructor told me in my last lesson when I'm not doing anything with him then it's his 'vacation' period and he can just walk around with slack reins. Although we were in a round yard and she was talking to me at the time about what we were doing in that lesson. 

It was a bit weird for me and I'm used to riding with reins short all the time. I've learnt a lot from her and I'm finding things easier with him!


----------



## CinnaDex

I really enjoy this thread, I've actually read it like 5 times, i am a serious lurker omg. Just wanted to say that I'm so happy for you two, you're doing awesome! Keep it up , And in those last photos you posted I can see he's starting to pick up muscle nicely


----------



## Rainaisabelle

CinnaDex said:


> I really enjoy this thread, I've actually read it like 5 times, i am a serious lurker omg. Just wanted to say that I'm so happy for you two, you're doing awesome! Keep it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , And in those last photos you posted I can see he's starting to pick up muscle nicely


Oh thank you! I didn't even know that many people read it.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I love the photos from today, he's really trying ! After my last lesson some things have just clicked. I have been going to easy on him in a way and I've realised he's been taken advantage of the fact I won't push him.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Out of curiosity can anyone tell me if he's BTV in the first picture ? My friend said he's going nicely but I was wondering.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Haven't been able to do much with Roy this week atleast not as much as I wanted to. He's filling out a bit which is fantastic and we started him on his new minerals today so I am quite excited to see the effects.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Had a ride today and it went alright! Walk was great but he wouldn't do more then a few strides in the trot. I think his feet might be overdue and a bit long that's why I got my partner to run him in a straight line towards and away from my and he was fine.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Had a ride today and it went alright! Walk was great but he wouldn't do more then a few strides in the trot. I think his feet might be overdue and a bit long that's why I got my partner to run him in a straight line towards and away from my and he was fine.


He looks very nice in that photo! More alive than any other photos you've ever taken riding him.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

He's beautiful when he wants to be lol! I'm being paranoid that something is going on. He doesn't seem lame I have lunged him and got my partner to run him on hard ground straight and he looks normal but he doesn't want to trot. It could just be his feet again unfortunately I wasn't aware my new trimmer is every 5 weeks not 4 so


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Free lunging 1

https://youtu.be/1SKn2T1MNbA



Trot out 1
https://youtu.be/vvn7ICx6EIY

Trot out 2
https://youtu.be/QAivuZ5ca2o

Trot side view 

https://youtu.be/njur4w2JYdU

For some reason the other free lunging video isn't uploading so this is what I have so far.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

He looks short behind, like tight... but I cannot figure out why.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> He looks short behind, like tight... but I cannot figure out why.


That's what I was looking at aswell :/ to me he doesn't look lame but he doesn't look right either. He does short stride on one leg which I was already aware of and we were working on but he just looks wrong at the moment.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Have you checked his back/hind for muscle spasm?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Have you checked his back/hind for muscle spasm?


Muscle spasm?


----------



## Skyseternalangel




----------



## Rainaisabelle

Oh I've seen those ! I'll check this afternoon again just incase otherwise a visit from the saddle fitter/chiro and massage therapist will be in order I think


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Learn How to Recognize and Treat Horse Back Pain - YouTube
> 
> How to check your own horse's sore back with Christian Langeder. - YouTube


I tried the second one on Roy and I didn't get any response but in saying that I could have missed key points or didn't put enough pressure. He is due for a chiro appointment which i have already been arranging and I will get him a massage. 

I am going to take him for a hack and see how it goes. It is extremely hot at the moment 32-35 degrees and the flies are horrible they also could be factors.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Progress photos yay ! Anyone notice any difference in Roy?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Taking Roy on a small trail ride today will see how it goes


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Nice ride yesterday even when I fell off ! Totally my fault as I wasn't paying attention and be spooked which he regularly does on the laneway.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy being a brat lol 

http://youtu.be/F4ORnckHPwo


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Today we were working on relaxing in the trot as Roy can get a bit anxious. I might be taking him to the all breeds show just for the inhand portion to see how we go.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I am still a bit worried about him but he has a cut on the bulb of his foot so I have a feeling it might be hurting him and that's why hes been a bit off.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Vid 1

https://youtu.be/b7XQW5a96bI


Vid 2
https://youtu.be/gVJAaF0_bkw


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I think front right has an issue...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

This is really starting to get to me, I have had a vet see him, a chiro and a saddle fitter not one seems to be able to tell me whats going on and how to fix it. The vet said he was lame in the front and to put shoes on him, he passed the flexion tests. 
The chiro put everything back into place and said he was way better then when he injured himself but he would need some rehab work. 
The saddle fitter/instructor said he has an uneven gait and short strides and we will do some rehab work to help him correct it and strengthen it.

I am beginning to get seriously discouraged.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Did they use hoof testers? Flexion only puts stress on joints.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Did they use hoof testers? Flexion only puts stress on joints.


As far as I remember yes they did but it was over a year ago. From what I remember his back feet were perfectly fine but his fronts I think didn't do so well we were told to shoe him or boot him. He was perfectly sound on grass but if you took him on sharp rocks he wasn't, Gravel he was fine. We booted him for 12 months if we were riding on gravel or sharp rocks.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We also put him on biotin and changed his diet to suit a horse that has laminitis but the vet never suspected or even thought of laminitis as he didn't have any signs or symptoms


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Could you get pics of his feet, from all angles, in good lighting.

I know he's due but I'm curious about balance overall.

Loose's signature has a good guide on taking good hoof pics


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'll see what I can do this afternoon


----------



## Rainaisabelle

http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/flat-footed-578938/ 

this is the last thread


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> http://www.horseforum.com/hoof-care/flat-footed-578938/
> 
> this is the last thread


Just read it now. I'm looking forward to the updated pics.


----------



## evilamc

Skyseternalangel said:


> Just read it now. I'm looking forward to the updated pics.


I'd be interested in updated pics too! If his feet still look as they did in your old thread that could be the root of a lot of his issues


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm quite upset at this point and feel quite incompetent. I was very insistent on getting feet X-Ray's but the vet really wasn't.


----------



## evilamc

Rainaisabelle said:


> I'm quite upset at this point and feel quite incompetent. I was very insistent on getting feet X-Ray's but the vet really wasn't.


Maybe try another vet? Some vets really don't know that much about hooves...at least where I'm from. Its like they got a 2 week course in vet school on hooves and that was it lol! We used to have one vet that did specialize in hoof rehab though..he was only vet I'd listen to about hoof care. Maybe try calling around some.

Before I moved, I decided to have chiro out for Jax...since I wouldn't know one once moved! Well my usual one was out with a broken leg...so decided to try a different vet/chiro that came recommended...Yeah she told me I needed to put BACK shoes only on him with WEDGE pads..because he leans back too much...I told my farrier he laughed and said No. Apparently she tries to say that about EVERY horse...Moral of the story...not all vets are created equally.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I tried my best... All of these are from the front right except the sole picture which is front left as per the instructions. It is really hard to find somewhere that isn't grassy at this point and I am not walking up to the arena as it is 34 degrees. 

Some things I am aware of is that he has separation I have been treating it and also the cracks. It is very dry at the moment and the horses are constantly stomping at flies.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I just rang another vet that is further away and it will probably be about $400 to get X-rays


----------



## Skyseternalangel

There's still significant flaring on his feet and it looks like it's been there for awhile (not addressed at trims). Toes are also long and should be rasped at an angle (think mustang roll just on the toe) so they are "floating" above the ground. It doesn't take much

Flag loosie down to come look


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Raina here is a pic to help you understand flaring




















And an article
http://www.horsecollaborative.com/need-to-know-hoof-flares/


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Right well I'm going to go sleep and possibly have a bit of a cry.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I sent loosie a message


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I spoke to the most recent trimmer as in the one who is filling in for my regular one and she said she believes the thing on the back of his foot is a popped abscess and when he was in the paddock he probably ripped skin off it and lunging on gravel is probably hurting it.

This doesn't address why the flares after a year of trimming have not been corrected or even started to so I am speaking to both of them about it.


----------



## evilamc

Good Raina! Call them out on it. After a year of trimming and proper diet theres no reason to still have flared feed like that. Hope Loosie can offer some help! I started drawing on the pictures for you but Loosie is better at that then I am.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

If crying makes you feel better, by all means. 

The flaring is fixable though, so it's not the end of the world  But I don't like your trimmers. Abscess or not, the flaring is still there. 

Is loosie near you? I know Australia is huge


----------



## Rainaisabelle

No I can't cry lol, I spoke to one and I was not impressed by her response which was ' Roy is a big boy so the flares are there for a reason ' and the other one hasn't addressed my concern that the hooves have gotten any better. 

Loosie is in NSW and I am in QLD so she's fairly far away.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I put my big girl pants on after my small pity party. I do like my regular trimmer and I do believe she was addressing Roys flares as he had stopped stumbling on hard rocks. After each trim his feet looked like the second hoof in the flares photo. 

I am not impressed though by this new trimmers approach... With my limited knowledge for how to do hooves I was under the strict impression flares had to be addressed and fixed? I am a bit distraught by the fact I can't find another trimmer as they are all booked with clients the only one I have seen is someone who hasn't entirely finished there qualification.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Another update:

I called another trimmer in my area who is a barefoot trimmer who has her qualification from the same place as loosie except shes not a podiatrist? She is coming Saturday to have a look at this feet for me.


----------



## evilamc

Rainaisabelle said:


> Another update:
> 
> I called another trimmer in my area who is a barefoot trimmer who has her qualification from the same place as loosie except shes not a podiatrist? She is coming Saturday to have a look at this feet for me.


Ohhhh thats great!!!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

evilamc said:


> Ohhhh thats great!!!!


I am trying to be proactive about this because I know in the past I was more complacent relying on the advice of other people because they owned horses for a long time and I was new to it. I have no issues with getting X-Rays at this point but it could take awhile to get an appointment and for them to bring it down to me. 

She was on the list of trimmers for the barefoot website. I am extremely concerned by what the most recent trimmer said to me that its just the way his foot is and that flares on horses his size are normal.


----------



## evilamc

Flares are never normal. Yes some hooves can be different do to conformation or injury but flares are never "normal". Can't wait to hear what new trimmer says! I had an old farrier tell me that my QH at the time would always have under run heels because of his confo, I was naive and believed him at first. Once I started educating myself more though I found a new farrier and those heels got better and better!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yep thats how I feel, I started reading up on flares and normal hooves. Once this new trimmer sees him I will let you guys know and she might even trim him but we will see how we go and I will take new photos if she does


----------



## loosie

Pics show *roughly* about where breakover 'should' be and blue lines approx where I'd trim. Heels need to be further back & bit lower. Would bevel from breakover, then strong roll once you get into the wall. 

Also drew lines to show the substantial quarter flares, but with those feet, I'd probably go easy on quarters for now, in favour of getting the toes & heels right.


----------



## loosie

Bah! Sorry, first 2 pics are of foundered pony I attended(who HAD been getting trimmed regularly, believe it or not. Meant to post them on my thread... don't know how I managed to put them there instead! Too late to edit. 

Oh & I'm in Vic, even further from you, but if you PM me where abouts in Qld, could poss put you onto someone...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

loosie said:


> Bah! Sorry, first 2 pics are of foundered pony I attended(who HAD been getting trimmed regularly, believe it or not. Meant to post them on my thread... don't know how I managed to put them there instead! Too late to edit.
> 
> Oh & I'm in Vic, even further from you, but if you PM me where abouts in Qld, could poss put you onto someone...


Out of curiosity would you say he's better then the first thread though ? 


I am Cairns, I picked someone off that list that you are on but she is a barefoot trimmer not a podiatrist :/ I think the closet one is willowvale.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Hi everyone trimmer has been, she didn't get to trim him today so she's coming back Tuesday. She said that it's not normal for horses to have flares but it does happen. That it does look like he's had some laminitic attacks and I should keep an eye on it but I am on the right track with his diet and that I should consider getting X-Rays but I should first get the abscess cleaned up and fixed.

She recommended magnesium chloride and said that at this time of the year she has seen majority of horses get tender because the grass is beginning to stress.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Just for clarification, X-Rays are on the table at this point in time but they won't happen right away. I am hoping in the next month


----------



## evilamc

She recommended magnesium CHLORIDE not OXIDE? May want to double check that, magox is the better choice for helping with sugars in grass and what not. If you can get magrestore in Aus that would be the best!

Home - Performance Equine Nutrition | Focus, MagRestore

I'm glad shes going to come back to trim though and agrees hes flared and that needs fixed


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Nope she definitely said chloride.. they come in flakes this is what it's called

Tibetan Plateau Magnesium Chloride 2 kg – Flakes 
Premium quality, High purity, low impurity Magnesium Chloride. The Tibetan Plateau is 3200mtrs above sea level in an untamed land isolated from pollutants and contaminants. 
Its quite common in our area actually. She is getting her qualification in podiatry but she believes my regular trimmer can help because she has the same qualification as this trimmer. I don't know what I can do about the grass except keep it short and maybe consider a grazing muzzle?


----------



## evilamc

Ohh how weird! I've always heard oxide was better!

Actually short grass can be worse! It will have more sugar because its trying to grow. Can you limit grazing some and feed hay and use a grazing muzzle when he is out?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

evilamc said:


> Ohh how weird! I've always heard oxide was better!
> 
> Actually short grass can be worse! It will have more sugar because its trying to grow. Can you limit grazing some and feed hay and use a grazing muzzle when he is out?


Oh well I'll leave the grass then as it is quite long at the moment. He gets hay not unlimited as it's just not possible to keep it mold free long enough in our area its to humid and wet and will be fore the next couple of months as we move into wet season. I don't really have any place to put it except in the shelter but he doesn't eat enough grassy hay and we don't get lucerne rounds.

I can locate a muzzle and maybe section off some of the paddock.


----------



## evilamc

Yeah if you can section graze him that would be good. I think if HE eats it down its not as sugar filled as when you cut it and it grows back? I know sounds crazy and I could be completely wrong lol!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I don't really want to section off the paddock as it's not very big, but I will get a grazing muzzle


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I was considering strip grazing but he only has water and a shelter at one end of the paddock :/ he does have trees and both end but I'm not sure how you would do it.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Just get a Grazing Muzzle


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Alrighty then


----------



## Rainaisabelle

It's been a pretty crappy week but I'm trying to look on the bright side atleast its something we can manage.


----------



## NavigatorsMom

He's got such a sweet face! 

Nav was seriously overweight last summer and benefited from a grazing muzzle. It took a little while for him to learn how to eat out of it which is pretty normal. You might try feeding carrots or other treats through the hole to get him to understand how to eat from it. They can seem pretty pathetic about it at first but learn quickly! 

I wouldn't leave it on 24/7 though, on during the day and off at night is what we did. Good luck!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> He's got such a sweet face!
> 
> Nav was seriously overweight last summer and benefited from a grazing muzzle. It took a little while for him to learn how to eat out of it which is pretty normal. You might try feeding carrots or other treats through the hole to get him to understand how to eat from it. They can seem pretty pathetic about it at first but learn quickly!
> 
> I wouldn't leave it on 24/7 though, on during the day and off at night is what we did. Good luck!


It's funny he's not overweight he's just like big but between Autumn and Spring is when our grass is the worst and it's obviously affecting him. He's really pretty ! I feel pretty lucky


----------



## loosie

Rainaisabelle said:


> Out of curiosity would you say he's better then the first thread though ?


Can u link to other threads pls, save trawling?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## loosie

Don't know where I'm up to, so many pages since I last saw, HF isn't notifying me for all followed threads...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm on my phone and it's not working for me, the link should be on page 18


----------



## loosie

Rainaisabelle said:


> Right well I'm going to go sleep and possibly have a bit of a cry.


Don't do that, but if you've got a big soft toy, punch the crap out of that! Makes you feel a bit better... esp if you pretend it's the old farrier or vet that said he had no symptoms of lami! ;-)

Now found 'flat footed'... getting muddled between threads now. I need to go to bed & have a bit of good sleep for a change! Won't whinge about working in the heat under obstreperous horses to you, as you're from Cairns... but at least you're acclimatised to humid!

He looks better in his body. Condition-wise at least. He's lost a lot of that excess & seems to have toned up.



Rainaisabelle said:


> Out of curiosity would you say he's better then the first thread though ?
> 
> I think you need to be protecting & supporting underneath his feet. Think your summer/wet has effected them too. Hope it dries out soon... tho you've probably got a bit to wait for that?? Hope the new trimmer gets him into shape. Magnesium will likely help too.


----------



## loosie

evilamc said:


> She recommended magnesium CHLORIDE not OXIDE? May want to double check that, magox is the better choice for helping with sugars in grass and what not. If you can get magrestore in Aus that would be the best!


I'm no nutritionist... as I've said before, but my understanding was that Mg Chlor was more bioavailable than MgOx, that MgOx is one of the least absorbable through the gut. While Mg Chlor is better, it's far more bioavailable through the skin, as is Mg Sulphate(Epsom Salts). Other forms - chellate, etc, as in human supps - are better as dietary supps, but they're also very expensive in horse-size quantities.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

loosie said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right well I'm going to go sleep and possibly have a bit of a cry.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't do that, but if you've got a big soft toy, punch the crap out of that! Makes you feel a bit better... esp if you pretend it's the old farrier or vet that said he had no symptoms of lami!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now found 'flat footed'... getting muddled between threads now. I need to go to bed & have a bit of good sleep for a change! Won't whinge about working in the heat under obstreperous horses to you, as you're from Cairns... but at least you're acclimatised to humid!
> 
> He looks better in his body. Condition-wise at least. He's lost a lot of that excess & seems to have toned up.
> 
> 
> 
> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity would you say he's better then the first thread though ?
> 
> I think you need to be protecting & supporting underneath his feet. Think your summer/wet has effected them too. Hope it dries out soon... tho you've probably got a bit to wait for that?? Hope the new trimmer gets him into shape. Magnesium will likely help too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> loosie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> evilamc said:
> 
> 
> 
> She recommended magnesium CHLORIDE not OXIDE? May want to double check that, magox is the better choice for helping with sugars in grass and what not. If you can get magrestore in Aus that would be the best!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm no nutritionist... as I've said before, but my understanding was that Mg Chlor was more bioavailable than MgOx, that MgOx is one of the least absorbable through the gut. While Mg Chlor is better, it's far more bioavailable through the skin, as is Mg Sulphate(Epsom Salts). Other forms - chellate, etc, as in human supps - are better as dietary supps, but they're also very expensive in horse-size quantities.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I ended up putting my big girl panties on and deciding to fix the problem rather then sulk about it  we are actually completely dry at the moment have been for a while it's supposed to be wet but we don't seem to be getting as much rain as we usually do. Although it was wet when I was taking those photos or has just been wet. What should I do for support ? Boots?
Click to expand...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Trimmer came today and I am pretty happy with how it went. 

She said his feet are not terrible but they're not fantastic either, before the grazing muzzle we should try the mag chloride (you make it into a liquid) if he doesn't seem to get better then a muzzle and we should look into boots for riding and working unless on grass then he should be okay but monitor. 

Bottom line we should monitor and make him as comfortable as possible but he should make a recovery. 

Took some photos from this trim hopefully it's alright.


----------



## evilamc

Hey good improvements!

So I had do google the chloride vs oxide lol! I've just ALWAYS heard to do oxide!
Magnesium Oxide or Magnesium Chloride for horses

Good read! I guess they are about the same its just they can be fed differently. Does say chloride isn't always as tasty though? So maybe try it and if he seems to turn his nose up at it...don't give up on magnesium all together try getting oxide in pellet form?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Much better on the bottom


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I won't give up but I have a feeling he won't he eats everything I don't think he notices when I put something different in but we will see how we go.

Sorry about all the grass in the photos I was in a big rush and I didn't have time to find ungrassy ground.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I did some light lunging with Roy today just walking over some calvettis and he was really relaxed and stretching down. Hard to get photos while lunging and I missed when he was really stretching !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/KoFpNrdetBk 


https://youtu.be/l51PDkesz9A


I want to know if maybe it's me? And he's confused about what I'm asking ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I've never had any formal training in lunging only a 'horsemanship instructor' showed me how to do it in a rope halter that was about it


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Oh my gosh.... the whole time I was watching I was trying hard not to lose my cool and yell at the computer screen.

GET HIM MOVING. Your timing is definitely off, he's not confused he's just not doing anything because you aren't giving him direction or a REASON to move.

When he went over the poles and cut across one, you took way too long to correct... and you could have guided his shoulder over via pointing the whip end at his shoulder... to prevent it in the first place.

Are you wearing actual riding boots? Wear some good shoes and get that horse's butt moving!!! Make him think his butt is on fire OR a cougar is chasing him down.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Oh my gosh.... the whole time I was watching I was trying hard not to lose my cool and yell at the computer screen.
> 
> GET HIM MOVING. Your timing is definitely off, he's not confused he's just not doing anything because you aren't giving him direction or a REASON to move.
> 
> When he went over the poles and cut across one, you took way too long to correct... and you could have guided his shoulder over via pointing the whip end at his shoulder... to prevent it in the first place.
> 
> Are you wearing actual riding boots? Wear some good shoes and get that horse's butt moving!!! Make him think his butt is on fire OR a cougar is chasing him down.


No I wasn't wearing riding boots I was wearing runners, I wasn't going to do anything with him yesterday just feed and leave but I realized the next week I am booked up with work and uni and I wanted to get a video. 

You sound like my old instructor he told me I am way to nice to him thats why he won't do what I want half the time which is probably true. When he cut accross I wasn't sure entirely how to correct him. I was going to put the whip on his shoulder and push him over but I hesitated and realized when I corrected him it was a bit late to do much.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

It's not that you're too nice, it's that you weren't checked in with him. He was like "she's not asking me to do anything so.... I'm just going to lollygag about at whatever speed I want..."

He needs direction and to know how fast and where his feet should go. You aren't being nice, you just aren't present!

ETAsk: What would happen if you walked towards him (not nearby but just directed towards him) stamping your feet... what would he do?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> It's not that you're too nice, it's that you weren't checked in with him. He was like "she's not asking me to do anything so.... I'm just going to lollygag about at whatever speed I want..."
> 
> He needs direction and to know how fast and where his feet should go. You aren't being nice, you just aren't present!
> 
> ETAsk: What would happen if you walked towards him (not nearby but just directed towards him) stamping your feet... what would he do?


He usually trots off but sometimes if he doesn't want to he will try to pull off sideways. I usually just ignore this and ask him to go forward again, I think sometimes I just don't get behind what I'm asking if you know what I mean? Like I'm just not in it, I know what I'm asking but I'm not physically telling him its what I want so he just gets lazy and does what he want.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Yeah he definitely needs to be rewarded when he tries to be good but he has to TRY in the first place. That trot was barely a trot... it was like one of those broken WP jogs that people yell about (disclaimer not all WP horses move this way)

If he pulls off, do as you do and SEND him forward... with your OWN energy. If he doesn't respect your cues on the ground (or you are THIS checked out) he won't respect you in the saddle.

Get after him until he's going at a better pace and then leave him alone. If he slows down, get him back up again. If he charges at you, drive him away with intense forward thinking, and whip if necessary. He can only get better once he knows what you will accept from him.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Yeah he definitely needs to be rewarded when he tries to be good but he has to TRY in the first place. That trot was barely a trot... it was like one of those broken WP jogs that people yell about (disclaimer not all WP horses move this way)
> 
> If he pulls off, do as you do and SEND him forward... with your OWN energy. If he doesn't respect your cues on the ground (or you are THIS checked out) he won't respect you in the saddle.
> 
> Get after him until he's going at a better pace and then leave him alone. If he slows down, get him back up again. If he charges at you, drive him away with intense forward thinking, and whip if necessary. He can only get better once he knows what you will accept from him.


I try not to be so checked out, maybe that is reason we have issues when it comes to forwardness in the saddle because he doesn't know what my expectations are. Thank you for that it's always better to have it pointed out as it gives me something to work on.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'll put an update up in a week as I have a feeling the first couple of times are going to be ugly


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Right friendly forum people I need some opinions on browband colours for Roy.

My partner likes Royal blue but I'm not sure...


I also need a show name for him :/ his race name is Izacat but I don't really like it..


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Right friendly forum people I need some opinions on browband colours for Roy.
> 
> My partner likes Royal blue but I'm not sure...
> 
> 
> I also need a show name for him :/ his race name is Izacat but I don't really like it..


Royal Blue could be his show name haha!

Royal Discovery

Royal Destination

Prime Royalty

Rebel to Royal

(just tossing out ideas with "roy" in there)


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> Right friendly forum people I need some opinions on browband colours for Roy.
> 
> My partner likes Royal blue but I'm not sure...
> 
> 
> I also need a show name for him :/ his race name is Izacat but I don't really like it..



really? I like "Izacat". "Eyes a Cat" or "I's a Cat". 

cool!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right friendly forum people I need some opinions on browband colours for Roy.
> 
> My partner likes Royal blue but I'm not sure...
> 
> 
> I also need a show name for him :/ his race name is Izacat but I don't really like it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> really? I like "Izacat". "Eyes a Cat" or "I's a Cat".
> 
> cool!
Click to expand...

I think it's pronounced 'I's a cat' I don't know it just never caught on with me :/


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right friendly forum people I need some opinions on browband colours for Roy.
> 
> My partner likes Royal blue but I'm not sure...
> 
> 
> I also need a show name for him :/ his race name is Izacat but I don't really like it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> really? I like "Izacat". "Eyes a Cat" or "I's a Cat".
> 
> cool!
Click to expand...

I just read it again and realised you meant these could be his names lol


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Today went better then expected I'll post s video when I get home. He was still pulling but barely an argument I'll see what you think.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/BVQzpLjx6zE 

Yay


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Much better! Keep it up and he'll be moving even more forward and relaxed on the lunge


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Much better! Keep it up and he'll be moving even more forward and relaxed on the lunge


It went a lot better then I thought it would, usually we have a lot of kicking out and pulling sideways. Maybe he is feeling better? I'll just lunge like this for a couple of weeks and then add in poles as we go.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Lunging was amazing yesterday! He is still pulling but sometimes all I had to do was raise my lunge whip and he went into a nice trot ! Unfortunately I didn't get a video :/


What's best to lunge in? Cavesson/bridle/halter


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Lunging was amazing yesterday! He is still pulling but sometimes all I had to do was raise my lunge whip and he went into a nice trot ! Unfortunately I didn't get a video :/
> 
> 
> What's best to lunge in? Cavesson/bridle/halter


Cavesson, then bridle, then halter. That is what I was told and lunging in a halter just promotes leaning.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lunging was amazing yesterday! He is still pulling but sometimes all I had to do was raise my lunge whip and he went into a nice trot ! Unfortunately I didn't get a video :/
> 
> 
> What's best to lunge in? Cavesson/bridle/halter
> 
> 
> 
> Cavesson, then bridle, then halter. That is what I was told and lunging in a halter just promotes leaning.
Click to expand...

I'll just lunge in a cavesson then much easier.


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> https://youtu.be/BVQzpLjx6zE
> 
> Yay



if you make your own walking circle a bit smaller and more consistent, not bulging out at times, you will transfer to him the responsibility of maintaining his own cosistent circle. use your raised leading hand kind of bumping toward "forward" more than trying to get around to his hind end and chase him forward when he starts to drift out of the circle.
his rythm and balance look good.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/BVQzpLjx6zE
> 
> Yay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you make your own walking circle a bit smaller and more consistent, not bulging out at times, you will transfer to him the responsibility of maintaining his own cosistent circle. use your raised leading hand kind of bumping toward "forward" more than trying to get around to his hind end and chase him forward when he starts to drift out of the circle.
> his rythm and balance look good.
Click to expand...

Walking circle smaller / trot circle bigger ? When you say raise leading hand forward like pointing more toward forward ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Also we settled on a show name 'Tacazi'


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I had some questions in my head but unfortunately I forgot some of them as I had a nap before work.

1. How do you get your horse in front of your leg? 

I was watching a video on YouTube when they were talking about the horse being in front of your leg and how to correct it if they aren't. This is one of the ways I read online
1. Light aid
2. Bump heels on horses side
3. Whip/spur (if horse kicks out tap with whip again horse has to accept the aid?) 

Thoughts ? Better ways? 


Another one is the half halt, how is it supposed to be done ? No reins ? Only use reins if ignoring ? Is it a light squeeze or do you bring the rein back a bit and release? 


Obviously I can't learn these onlines but in your own words ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

How to get the horse infront of your leg?
When you add leg, make sure you are not sitting with upper body back or forward but directly over their center of gravity. If you jolt back, then you are behind their leg. If you are leaning forward you are infront of their leg. There has to be a healthy medium between the two. When he moves, you should be moving at the same rate so that it appears you haven't moved at all.

Halfhalts (with leg) rock the horse back on his butt if done correctly, aka they balance and ask the horse to not gain speed but to push more from behind. I think for you.... it's better to get him forward more than anything atm.
Half halts can be done in a few ways. The END goal is to use only your body weight, but at first you may have to use rein AND body to get him listening. It's just as it sounds, it's half of a cue to halt. So you apply the halt cue, and once they slow down a fraction, then you add leg and get soft with the rein to have them spring forward.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Also a good thing to note, you NEVER PULL the rein back, ever.... unless they are completely ignoring your halt and it's a last attempt thing to get them to stop.

You HOLD the rein with a firmer grip, and then get soft in your fingers and wrist (but still have your hand holding the reins) You don't ever open your fingers entirely as a way to get soft. 
Think of silly putty. You can gently hold to keep it in your hand. Or you can SQUEEEEEEEEZE and it oozes. You always start with a gentle rein but you have a hold of it, then you cue the halt by sitting deep, bracing your back a little to stop hip movement, and squeeze the rein until they respond, then you apply the FORWARD cue by sitting lighter, adding leg, and your rein becomes gentle again (simultaneously). If you can't do it all at the same time, always think to soften your rein FIRST and then sit lighter and add leg. If you do the reverse, you may give conflicting rein cues.

EVENTUALLY you will only need to use your seat and not your reins. But since it's a learning thing, they are useful to signal if they don't understand your seat cues.

Practice at the walk to halt first. Do walk, then halt... then walk then halt. THEN when your horse is soft and almost immediate through your down transition, then you can go from halt to walk to halfhalt to walk to halt. etc.

Only do these transitions UNTIL your horse understands and does a good job. As soon as he dos it right, move onto something else.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Very interesting thank you. I my recent instructor said the same thing you never pull back, I might ride tomorrow depending on weather and see how it goes.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Also I agree more forward. How to get more forward would be a more appropriate question?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Also I agree more forward. How to get more forward would be a more appropriate question?


Leg on and keep elbows by sides, have appropriate length of rein, and slightly push reins towards nose.

Here you can see us working on what I was describing above. Walk... halt. Walk... halt. You can't see the halfhalts but you can see how he's not plowing on his forehand as much






Try and see if you see what my hands are doing before we trot. And when we are halted, you'll see me give really fast after he halts and then pick up contact again. This is to help him know when he's done good and doesn't confuse him into thinking he has to run from the pressure. In time we'll fade that into a softer release on the rein but for now, we do it big so he doesn't try to keep working at it after he's got it right.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Sorry it's kind of hard to see :/ but possibly pushing him into it? Making him follow the contact ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Sorry it's kind of hard to see :/ but possibly pushing him into it? Making him follow the contact ?


Yeah it is

Umm in a way. You just make sure you aren't giving conflicting signals and giving them a "space" to move forwards into. When they are seeking contact, they'll stretch into that space.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

That makes sense, I hope I get to ride tomorrow I'm dying for a ride !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

When getting a horse to move lightly off aids is this sequence appropriate ? 

1. Light aid
2. Bump with heels
3. Whip or spur..



What should I be working on ? 

Obviously forward is the most important key here but within that?


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> Walking circle smaller / trot circle bigger ? When you say raise leading hand forward like pointing more toward forward ?


well, yes. your lunge line is like a rein. so, when you are riding and you want to let a confused horse know to , yes, move forward, you kind of lift the rein a bit, toward the direction you want to go. do the same thing lunging. you can do a lot with your hand when lunging.

for exmaple. hold the lunge line EXACTLY as you hold the reins. squeeze or 'milk' the line just as you might when riding. "invite" more forward by openning the hand slightly, shut down too much forward by firming up your hand. really. have that lungeline in your hand BE your rein to your horse.

you can walk a bigger or smaller circle as you please, but if he's not keeping his bend and keeping the circle on his own, your walking off in a very uneven circle will NOT help him. give him a more steady point around which to work. otherwise, you will not know when he is respecting the center and when he is not.

i will , at times, stand, . . at times walk a small circle, . . . at times drift toward the hind of the horse, . . . or walk paralllel to them. but, if they are bending nicely around the arc of the circle, that's the time to do as little as possible. that's the time to offer them a very stable center, . . . so, . . I make my circle small and stable to help them take responsibility for maintaining their good bend.

does that make sense?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

That makes sense tiny I shall try it! 

I rode today ! Wow, it was okay. I had to get my crop because he was just like I'm not going to do it if I don't have to. But once I picked up the crop he started to keep a steady rhythm but I only used the crop when he ignored me asking nicely. He ended up very sweaty between his butt and behind his front legs. I feel like I may over rise if you know what I mean ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Is there video?

Nice arms, I see tension in your shoulders which you should work on loosening. Shoulders should be down and back (I fail at this) but in a way that is relaxed. 

Try to just allow him to throw you up in a post, and then it's your job to quietly find the saddle again with your seat


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Is there video?
> 
> Nice arms, I see tension in your shoulders which you should work on loosening. Shoulders should be down and back (I fail at this) but in a way that is relaxed.
> 
> Try to just allow him to throw you up in a post, and then it's your job to quietly find the saddle again with your seat


There is.. But I can't post it because my partner is commentating over the top saying things like 

' this is a boring day '

' Raina is riding around toilets '


'He's being such a s---'

'She's going to complain about that later' 

I just feel like maybe I am not going with his momentum and that's why he is like what do I do..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yes that is a stick... I couldn't find my actual crop so I improvised but I don't actually hit him with it I just hit my boot so it makes a sound


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Oh I wasn't sure if you knew this but ^_^ you can put music over the video, or remove sound completely. 

Don't worry, a stick isn't bad. I'm glad you had a good ride though. Your arms are so much better


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Oh I wasn't sure if you knew this but ^_^ you can put music over the video, or remove sound completely.
> 
> Don't worry, a stick isn't bad. I'm glad you had a good ride though. Your arms are so much better


You know I didn't even think about it? 


I'll get a video this morning I am going out to ride again


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I have videos! Tiny I have one of me lunging trying to use the whole stabilise method and I have one of me riding... Remind me not to ever wear the pink top I'm wearing while riding again it's not slimming ... I don't like my riding right now I feel ugh about it. My partner says I'm jut not confident about it ..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

You know, I was watching my video as I do when I take a video I consistently watch it to pick at myself...

1. I need MORE forward way more


2. Roy is huge I need to actually give him space to move.


3. I need to give him more direction...


I realised in my video I am not asking him anything so he's not doing anything ! Sky you were totally right he's lollygagging because I'm not giving him any direction! He's not bending or coming through because I'm just holding my reins expecting it ! He's not moving into the contact because I'm not pushing him into it ! I'm just hoping and praying that he does what I want but he's so well educated he's not doing anything because he's not being asked to!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I rode again today there are some pros and cons of it. I took him up to the arena and he was way more responsive and forward ! But he refused to bend and when I look at some of the photos they can look pretty ugly, not so much because of my riding but because his mouth is wide open. He ran around like a giraffe which I just ignored and kept riding him forward and by the end he started to relax and put his head down but my partner didn't get any photos of this.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We rode transitions/figure 8s/serpentine /circles

He was good walk/trot and trot/walk but getting him to halt was a struggle sometimes I even had to turn him in circles to get him to halt.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

In those recent photos, the reins look a little too short. By at least 2 inches.


----------



## tinyliny

videos? where? (I love videos, and am happy to keep my trap shut, too, if the 'advice' gets annoying)


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> videos? where? (I love videos, and am happy to keep my trap shut, too, if the 'advice' gets annoying)


They wouldn't upload ! It's annoying !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yay ! The lunging one uploaded but the riding one won't... 

http://youtu.be/JwxBgd8trkk 

So I tried to be a stabilised centre and sort of keep in my space even though I did move a couple of times I was trying not to interrupt his circle because as you can see he can do a circle on his own.


----------



## tinyliny

Raina, now you're really gonna kill me!!!
I have to criitque again. just can't help myself.

remember when I suggested you make your circle smaller, to act more as an anchor for him? well, what has happend here is that you no longer HAVE a circle, in fact, you are committing the cardinal sin of lunging, STEPPING BACKWARD.

you think that you are just pivoting in one spot, but , you are actually pivot backward. you are taking your moving leg, and putting it BEHIND the stationary one. you must always be projecting forward energy. it

It can be asl little as truly pivoting in one spot (think, one leg nailed to the ground and the other pushing you around it) but, you need to stand up straigher and project a bit more energy out of your chest and soul. believe me, the horse will know the difference. even though you are basically spinning in this example, you still have an internal intention of "forward".

better would be to actually walk a small circle. think of it like this, your inside leg will kind of step in the direction you are going, and your outside leg will be stepping foward, but pointed more toward the horse's shouder/neck area. so, your feet are slightly in a V formation (duck footed), with the inside leg nearly pivoting in one spot, while the outside step around but stay "connected " to the horse's driveline.

you can enlarge this circle as needed, slow down your stepping to draw the hrose backward, fall off toward his hind end to draw his head around back to you (disenegage him) or take a few steps parallel with him to UP his energy.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Raina, now you're really gonna kill me!!!
> I have to criitque again. just can't help myself.
> 
> remember when I suggested you make your circle smaller, to act more as an anchor for him? well, what has happend here is that you no longer HAVE a circle, in fact, you are committing the cardinal sin of lunging, STEPPING BACKWARD.
> 
> you think that you are just pivoting in one spot, but , you are actually pivot backward. you are taking your moving leg, and putting it BEHIND the stationary one. you must always be projecting forward energy. it
> 
> It can be asl little as truly pivoting in one spot (think, one leg nailed to the ground and the other pushing you around it) but, you need to stand up straigher and project a bit more energy out of your chest and soul. believe me, the horse will know the difference. even though you are basically spinning in this example, you still have an internal intention of "forward".
> 
> better would be to actually walk a small circle. think of it like this, your inside leg will kind of step in the direction you are going, and your outside leg will be stepping foward, but pointed more toward the horse's shouder/neck area. so, your feet are slightly in a V formation (duck footed), with the inside leg nearly pivoting in one spot, while the outside step around but stay "connected " to the horse's driveline.
> 
> you can enlarge this circle as needed, slow down your stepping to draw the hrose backward, fall off toward his hind end to draw his head around back to you (disenegage him) or take a few steps parallel with him to UP his energy.


I feel a bit ashamed now  I think I understand so I should be walking sort of side on to him? I'll try today trying to keep all this in mind!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> In those recent photos, the reins look a little too short. By at least 2 inches.


do you think so ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> do you think so ?


Yes, see how your upper body is leaning forward, desperate to keep your elbows bent but essentially you lost your foundational seat.. it's now a modified half-seat which isn't as secure for dressage.

You want to start with long reins, so you have contact but it's very light...then as he warms up, shorten so that at the walk, you have your arms by your sides, with elbows bent and upper arms angled to the bit with contact with his mouth without the "pulling back" feeling. 

Right now, since they are too short, if you were to sit back but keep your arms, you'd put a lot of pressure in his mouth just at the walk alone.

Your hands should be floating just in front of your pommel.

~~~

As for your lunging, agreed about the stepping back, that's drawing him to you not sending him out. 

I like your improvement as a leader though, giving clearer direction and getting after him... but that's hardly a trot. That's still a wishy washy jog. It's fine to warm up with that, but you need to get him moving or he'll think that's the expectation under saddle.

But you're getting there! You've improved a lot already


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'll take the good with the bad  

I suppose I tensed up a bit during my ride because he was trying to avoid working like I would do a really good 20m circle on one end but we would get up the other end and he would try to lean so far in. 


I'm going for a ride today so hopefully we can work on that


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I didn't end up riding it's just to hot honestly but I did lunge will post video later


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/fOpkqbRMJN0 

I'm going to work on his jog and try and get him moving more forward ! 

I tried to do what you said Tiny so hopefully I improved even a little bit... I did have the lead rope a bit loose because before I started filming he was a **** jumping backwards and running full speed around in circles and I didn't want him to close


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I had such a frustrating ride today ! I am so annoyed. Roy just wanted to be the biggest **** today no matter what I did! He would fall in and just run around with his head up in the air and totally ignore what I was asking ! He kept trying to run me into the wall and refused stop. At the start he was okay nice marching walk and would stop just by seat and then I had to start pulling him in circles to get him to stop ! 

I didn't stop riding him when he acted this way I kept going hoping he would calm down.


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## Skyseternalangel

The lunging looks better. Still too slow for a decent trot but improvement!

That ride sounds awful... do you have video so we can see if we can help?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'll post one soon.. Even my partner was a bit upset at this point :/ he was like do you want me to take him and untack him? Because at the end I just got off and I was just completely silent. It's not the first time he's tried to run me into the arena fence to get out of work. 

My own instructor has seen him try to do it. In the round pen he has tried to run my foot into the gate. I'm feel very discouraged with him at this point.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I'll post one soon.. Even my partner was a bit upset at this point :/ he was like do you want me to take him and untack him? Because at the end I just got off and I was just completely silent. It's not the first time he's tried to run me into the arena fence to get out of work.
> 
> My own instructor has seen him try to do it. In the round pen he has tried to run my foot into the gate. I'm feel very discouraged with him at this point.


Has your riding instructor ever been on him? To fix it?

And what ever happened with the saddle fit... was it checked? Any sort of pressure will cause pain and irritation and lead to bad behavior as well


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll post one soon.. Even my partner was a bit upset at this point :/ he was like do you want me to take him and untack him? Because at the end I just got off and I was just completely silent. It's not the first time he's tried to run me into the arena fence to get out of work.
> 
> My own instructor has seen him try to do it. In the round pen he has tried to run my foot into the gate. I'm feel very discouraged with him at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> Has your riding instructor ever been on him? To fix it?
> 
> And what ever happened with the saddle fit... was it checked? Any sort of pressure will cause pain and irritation and lead to bad behavior as well
Click to expand...

Um no she's never ridden him not because she hasn't asked I'm just a firm believer that it's an issue we need to get through and her getting on might fix the issue while she's around but not when I'm by myself. 

No it hasn't because she went to NSW to do a clinic and hasn't been able to check it so that could be a possibility but he used to do it all the time with or without the saddle. I'll message her and see if she can come out, the chiro is coming next week as well. 


Look the issue could totally be me or the saddle unfortunately for me doesn't make it any less annoying.


----------



## evilamc

Aw Raina, deep breaths! We all had bad bad rides. When hes being bad, try and stay calm, laugh it off even to keep yourself from getting frustrated. 

Maybe even just do ground work till after chiro to give yourself a break!

I totally get wanting to work through issues yourself, BUT it could be something to consider letting her hop on. Maybe she can help pin point the problem then give you better advice so you can work on fixing it sooner rather then later because you're still trying to diagnose


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Um no she's never ridden him not because she hasn't asked I'm just a firm believer that it's an issue we need to get through and her getting on might fix the issue while she's around but not when I'm by myself.
> 
> No it hasn't because she went to NSW to do a clinic and hasn't been able to check it so that could be a possibility but he used to do it all the time with or without the saddle. I'll message her and see if she can come out, the chiro is coming next week as well.
> 
> *Look the issue could totally be me or the saddle unfortunately for me doesn't make it any less annoying.*


I've been there, not too long ago actually. It's so easy to allow frustration to consume you. 

We don't know the reason why he's being like this. It could be he's avoiding work, it could be he's uncomfortable, it could be he's confused, it could be you are blocking him, it could be him shutting down.

You said it started out a good ride, wonderful!!! Remember that feeling!!

It went downhill from there. Keep that in mind, but try and not let it ruin your night. It can be hard, you feel angry with him or yourself or both... maybe even with me because I seem to have all the answers (I don't, I'm just trying to offer what I know to see if it helps) but anger won't fix anything. It'll just make things miserable :/

Once I knew when to get after Sky (not angrily, calmly but firmly), and when to be patient and calm.. it helped a LOT.

That's why I asked if your instructor had been on him. She only sees what she sees, she can't feel what he's doing... if she can feel it then she may be able to provide more specific help to help YOU work through that problem with him.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I am not as angry as I was when I got off and even then I didn't do anything because obviously it won't change the ride I just had. 

I was angry, at that point I just wanted him to go away BUT after going home and having time to calm down and actually think  I realized its not his fault and I am just lucky I have a horse who tries to walk me into arena walls when he wants to get out of work rather then rearing and bucking.

My old instructor has ridden him and said I need to have more control and be more firm with him.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Video 1:

Sorry it's taking so long to load!!
https://youtu.be/H04X1EAWCFk


----------



## Rainaisabelle

2:

https://youtu.be/9bJ4Vt6uSGw


----------



## Rainaisabelle

If you watch you can see him subtlety trying to walk into the wall or in I think the second one he try's to go up the other end of the arena and you can see me trying to use my outside rein to block him.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> If you watch you can see him subtlety trying to walk into the wall or in I think the second one he try's to go up the other end of the arena and you can see me trying to use my outside rein to block him.


(your second video is still trying to load for me)

I think that's where you may need help. Outside rein stops the shoulder but outside LEG stops the hind end from pushing the front end towards the wall. 

In your first video I didn't see your outside leg on his side. I would have a whip next time, and if he ignores your outside leg asking him to move over, gently tap him on the shoulder with the whip. If that doesn't work, a little harder... until he responds.

Sky used to do this, lol... it's so frustrating.

I also can see your inside leg is laying into him without meaning to, which is encouraging him to drift towards the wall. Step into your inside stirrup and close your outside leg. This is an "exaggerated cue" that uses weight to ask the horse to yield over. 

Does that help any?


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## Skyseternalangel

Your second video only comes up with audio, no image


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Here's Sky subtly doing it for our 20m circle. He loves to drift, and gets rude about it. 1:00ish






Watch it big and at maximum res since it's so far off, and listen to what my instructor tells me.


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## Skyseternalangel

Also 1:45 is how we fixed it more so.






Basically it was his shoulder and the fact I wasn't guiding him with my outside leg...allowing him to bulge out on the circle. It was even more severe at the canter. We'd fly sideways almost into the wall.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I haven't watched your videos yet just wanted to give an update! Lucky for me my instructor is coming out this afternoon to have a look at his saddle. You know it does help because after you said that I watched the second one and when it loads you'll understand this! He tries to do the same thing and drift off and I'm using my outside rein to block him but using my inside leg on him! No wonder he's confused..


----------



## Skyseternalangel

When working on a circle, inside leg is on the girth... outside leg is just behind the girth. The outside leg has to cue to keep the hind end bending around the inside leg... the inside leg is to keep the horse from drifting to the inside. If one is too strong, drifting will occur.

The reins control the shoulders. Ideally you want no bend in the neck so nice and straight, with the horse on both reins evenly... but more on the outside rein, with a soft inside rein feel.

If the horse is leaning or falling through a shoulder, it's very hard to get them back straight. Leg yielding is good, into an opening rein cue. Or... if you try the method my instructor tells to me in my second video, basically anytime you "open" the rein, the horse should turn that direction. You start this at the halt... then the walk... then the trot and canter for re-aligning only.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here we go ! 

https://youtu.be/1Ad3HDwuKck Hopefully that works for you  

That does make sense, so when he falls in should I open the outside rein and use the inside leg ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Here we go !
> 
> https://youtu.be/1Ad3HDwuKck Hopefully that works for you
> 
> That does make sense, so when he falls in should I open the outside rein and use the inside leg ?


Yes. But it's more of a hinged opening. Your forearm swings from your elbow (fixed to your side) open. 

Try this just sitting at a computer. This way you cannot pull back, but you're still opening the rein.

But work on him actually taking one step when you open your rein like that. Once he does it automatically, then do it at a walk.

And by turn, I mean literally taking one step over forwards that rein.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I can see it now! The first 6 seconds is just sound though haha

But yeah you can see how your opening rein isn't an opening rein... you're yanking him to the outside and it's just dangling with so much slack. 

With the opening rein I'm talking about, the slack doesn't change. It's a nice steady contact the entire time in the rein, just a different feel for Roy. 

I'm going to eventually get a head mount and I'll try and record what my hands do when I ride, so you can see.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I might need to open more :/ as I was taught to open outwards not pull back but obviously I am not doing it enough .... I also didn't want to have to short of reins like I did the other day.. I did try to keep them floating infront of the pommel


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I might need to open more :/ as I was taught to open outwards not pull back but obviously I am not doing it enough .... I also didn't want to have to short of reins like I did the other day.. I did try to keep them floating infront of the pommel


They were better but I'd say even a little long. You don't want any loose slack in the reins. He needs to work on working into the contact but to help him there you need to figure out the best rein length.

They should be floating infront of the pommel, but (and you had this right) your arms and body need to be in the saddle's seat...

so that there is contact ad he's working into it.

You're getting better! Just don't go to trot until he is listening and you've got the opening rein working well at the halt and walk.

Remember your elbow stays on your side. Your forearm hinges open. It can be on your inside or your outside rein... he just has to take a step towards it. Add more rein if he doesn't budge. Once he does, bring your forearm to where it was.. aka close the rein like a hinge from the elbow and put your rein back in the closed position (where your hand is infront of pommel, there is contact, there is a line from bit to arm)


----------



## Skyseternalangel

The little long isn't your fault.. your horse is avoiding contact by throwing his head up and falling out of his shoulders... only go to trot once the walk is good with contact. And it doesn't have to be "round" he just needs to accept that contact is happening and he needs to drive into it.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I think I am going to put a flash back on.. Just for clarification I am not using this as a crutch but when he had a flash on he does better because he can't totally avoid the contact and deliberately be stupid.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

*Here are your pictures of your past 3 rides:*

Ride 1, almost at the right length. Love your arms.

Ride 2... too short, but better than too long

Ride 3.... too long because I confused you and Roy's evading of the bit


----------



## Skyseternalangel

This is by far the most correct you've been. Your hands are floating right infront of the pommel... there is contact... your seat is secure. The only down is your arms, but this looks great otherwise:

Notice this was in your second ride, but it was when you had the reins at the right length for Roy. Can you see a difference in all the pics?


----------



## tinyliny

Raina,

I hope you are not feeling ganged up on, by me and Sky.

regarding the short clip of you riding, and Sky's talk of using your inside and outside reins. . . .one thing regarding the outside rein:
never pull downward. if you are, for whatever reason, using an opening rein on the outside (somethig I would rarely do), be sure that you are not pulling outward.

any time you use an opening rain, just as Sky said, think of it as coming from your elbow . . your arm pivots outward, but your elbow stays close to your body, and when your arm pivots outward, your lower arms should stay more or less parallel to the ground, NOT dropping or pulling downward. never downward. sometimes upward, .usually flat . . . . never downward.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Yes, I really hope you don't feel ganged up on!! I can come across short when I'm just trying to pinpoint ways to help you improve in particular areas.

I have a ton of things I need to improve on myself... trust me. I want to be encouraging so if I'm failing to do so, let me know!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I just want to say no I don't feel ganged up on, actually I feel better after I've posted it and got feed back it's the only way we learn right? 

Yes I do see what I am doing differently in each picture. Roy needs contact to go into and I am not providing it consistently which I need to be able to do.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Try and be really aware of where your body is...



 Do you feel secure in the seat or are you leaning forward?
Are your elbows by your side or are they flapping around (I'm guilty)?
Are your legs evenly draped around your horse's barrel and with knees not clamped?
Is there a consistent contact in the reins (aka can you FEEL Roy's mouth on the other end)?
 
If the answer to all of these is yes, then you may just have it!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Hey so the saddle fitter forgot to come lol! But she's coming tomorrow so it's okay. Since he was tacked up I rode him back to my paddock and then I tried to do the hinge moment ? I hope I did it correct? 

I also rode around but I can see what you mean I have to lose reins and I think I need to be a bit more steady with my hands. 

https://youtu.be/nGcorhixypo
https://youtu.be/AIGIktJA_NU


----------



## Skyseternalangel

The other side video isn't loading :/ Just blackness again

But that is correct! Now you just have to work more on your timing and it'll get more fluid. 

At the end of that video, your hands raise up and back, don't do that. If you're doing it to halt him, that is an indicator your reins are too long. Shorten them an inch or two so that if he tries to walk off, all you do is close your fingers tighter on the reins and sit deep keeping your arms by your side. And if that doesn't work, try the suggestion tinyliny gave to me and do a little "hand ten" motion with the reins quickly.


----------



## tinyliny

second sort riding clip:
this is better use of outside rein. if you can convince him to trot a bit more energetically, you will find him easier to post to, and it will fall together more.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Getting him to trot energetically in his paddock is a struggle.. But I did find my crop. 


Try this one sky

http://youtu.be/_k_DGuSbxY8


----------



## Rainaisabelle

My reins were to long in that video, I think I just need to be more aware of my rein length.


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## Skyseternalangel

Teehee you set it to private instead of unlisted


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Teehee you set it to private instead of unlisted


I think I fixed it lol -.-


----------



## Skyseternalangel

It's black again


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> It's black again


I have no idea why it doesn't like you!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I am feeling down today, I have to go back to my doctor to see how the medication is working and it doesn't feel like it is. I don't really feel any different, I just feel well nothing just like I am borderline.

Saddle fitter should be here this afternoon that will be fantastic for piece of mind.


----------



## tinyliny

sorry, dear, that's not good to be feeling down. hope tomorrow feels better. it often does.

I got to go out and play with friend's horses , in round pen. was very fun, and just loving on them was the best. made me feel happy.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Hopefully it will be!

The saddle still fits yay! But I am also going to be looking for a regular instructor as I feel I would strongly benefit from it. I love my instructor but she's going to be busy doing clinics all this year(so excited for her) so I am going to ask her if she has any references


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Ah, a regular instructor would be great to have! I mean, you've already made a lot of progress on your own - imagine how much progress you'll make with someone there while you ride helping you! Good luck finding someone, I am excited for you


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> Ah, a regular instructor would be great to have! I mean, you've already made a lot of progress on your own - imagine how much progress you'll make with someone there while you ride helping you! Good luck finding someone, I am excited for you


Yes it would! I miss riding with an instructor regularly. My instructor totally understood but unfortunately no one she could recommend. My area is a lot of 'what gets the job done' type instructors. She is happy to give me regular instruction but she is busy so we will have to schedule ahead. I am honestly happy to go back to the walk and get the basics down pat before moving on again.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Weeeee I have a riding lesson next Friday and Roy has the chiro on Thursday ! Yay for that! I am so excited


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I am very proud !

https://youtu.be/Z43ipiX1uaU


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I am very proud !
> 
> https://youtu.be/Z43ipiX1uaU


Miles better! Keep going!!! Great job
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am very proud !
> 
> https://youtu.be/Z43ipiX1uaU
> 
> 
> 
> Miles better! Keep going!!! Great job
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

You know I had just come from watching a jump clinic at a pony club and I was like well I may as well lunge him and do some work because if I want him nice and muscled by August we need to do some consistent work. Then he offered me this and I was so proud! It's the first time he's ever stretched that far down.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Oh I was more impressed that he was actually moving out better. Stretching down is good... but he's on the lazier side so I was more impressed you got him moving more and he seems happy doing so


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Oh I was more impressed that he was actually moving out better. Stretching down is good... but he's on the lazier side so I was more impressed you got him moving more and he seems happy doing so


Well this was after a few fits.. And avoiding doing cavalettis which ended in me and him having an argument. Then I wanted him to canter or atleast try to canter and he realised if he trots nice and balanced then I leave him alone and he doesn't have to go any faster. 

I like the stretching because it means he's more relaxed because if he isn't he sticks his head in the air like a giraffe and that's just ugly. 

Some of the horses at this jump clinic were just drool worthy!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm also trying a 'I know you can do it so don't be a ****' policy. I know he can work nicely but sometimes he just doesn't want to or he wants to be lazy. I'm no longer accepting that behaviour as I read recently ' if I don't expect better of him he will never get better '


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Ugh!!! So Roy's doing really well at the trot on the lunge (yay) but he will not canter to one side ! And when i ask him he puts his ears flat back at me. I'm not sure if he feels like he doesn't have enough space or he feels unbalanced? It could be pain , I am going to give him until Thursday off as that's when the chiro comes out. 

Any balance exercises I can do ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Ugh!!! So Roy's doing really well at the trot on the lunge (yay) but he will not canter to one side ! And when i ask him he puts his ears flat back at me. I'm not sure if he feels like he doesn't have enough space or he feels unbalanced? It could be pain , I am going to give him until Thursday off as that's when the chiro comes out.
> 
> Any balance exercises I can do ?


Ask him to jump a little crossrail (or raised calveletti would be safer on the lunge) and see if he canters from it


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'll give it a go.


----------



## NavigatorsMom

I agree with Sky, some horses will even canter if they have to go over a pole, so surely you could find something to put him over.  

Nav used to not pick up one lead on the line (can't remember which lead atm) but I believe he was just very stiff and unbalanced. We did a lot of strengthening that direction with trot, as well as bending/suppling exercises (like leg and carrot stretches before and after every work out). Chiro may help as well!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> I agree with Sky, some horses will even canter if they have to go over a pole, so surely you could find something to put him over.
> 
> Nav used to not pick up one lead on the line (can't remember which lead atm) but I believe he was just very stiff and unbalanced. We did a lot of strengthening that direction with trot, as well as bending/suppling exercises (like leg and carrot stretches before and after every work out). Chiro may help as well!


I'm giving him off until Thursday... Mainly because I actually work the next 2 days and the Chiro is out on Thursray thank the lord !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Have to say I'm not to impressed with adult life. Seems like a harder version of high school.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So chiro came today, Roy has apparently strained his right side  

He refused to bend his neck to the right and was slightly uneven in the back. Luckily not as bad as he used to be and she thinks the new saddle has helped a lot as he used to be extremely sore. 


One thing she noticed was his right hip, she said there's something going on but she can't find anything abnormal and that all the tension seems to have been released and he's loading on it fully again so fingers cross! He has a week off now.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm concerned.. She's reccomending a pentosan injection..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm concerned.. She's reccomending a pentosan injection.. I'm not sure what we will do if it's continuous !


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Where?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Where?


The hip


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Ah Roy :/


----------



## tinyliny

Roy has a really LOVELY face!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Roy has a really LOVELY face!


He's quite regal in the face


----------



## tinyliny

oh, wow! he is. regal is perfect to describe him. he's the classic thoroughbred look, the King of Kings horse, the blue blood.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> oh, wow! he is. regal is perfect to describe him. he's the classic thoroughbred look, the King of Kings horse, the blue blood.


His nickname in my friendship group is King or The King lol


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Also tiny, have you seen my last lunging video? It's on page 33 if you want to have a look


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So the chiro rang me and we had a lengthy discussion. I'll put it in bullets points it's easier to read

- Roy has a sore hip and she believes that it is a strain injury from racing that has been exacerbated. It's also not getting better with chiropractic and other work 

- I can not get the injections if I don't want to and he will cope with the level of work he is at but if I want to go higher he might begin to struggle

- The injections will benefit him either way even if we don't see a difference 

- She doesn't believe it's severe but it's something we need to look at


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I rode Roy today ! It was great.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Much better arms, do you have video?


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> Also tiny, have you seen my last lunging video? It's on page 33 if you want to have a look



looks good. really relaxed, even tempo, you did great! it's great that Roy puts his head down like that and stretches out his back, yet still maintains an even tempo. he's a nice horse.

looking at the stills of you riding. . . . just out of curiosity, what does it feel like if you shorten your stirrups a hole? (or even a half hole). have you tried differnt stirrup lengths?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also tiny, have you seen my last lunging video? It's on page 33 if you want to have a look
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks good. really relaxed, even tempo, you did great! it's great that Roy puts his head down like that and stretches out his back, yet still maintains an even tempo. he's a nice horse.
> 
> looking at the stills of you riding. . . . just out of curiosity, what does it feel like if you shorten your stirrups a hole? (or even a half hole). have you tried differnt stirrup lengths?
Click to expand...

I haven't ridden in short stirrups in awhile but I could give it a go the next time I ride. I don't have long legs so it's sometimes hard to find the right length.





Skyseternalangel said:


> Much better arms, do you have video?


I do I'll upload it in a second.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here we go 

https://youtu.be/9PPa5CAE970

I know he needs to be more forward and also that I am still struggling with keeping the more steady contact but I do think it was a decent ride..


----------



## tinyliny

stirrup length looks good in that video.

yeah, all around doing better. good job!

one thing you might work on, when you feel him trying to cut the corners on your circles , push him outward a bit, into a bit of a leg yield, just for a few strides , to remind him not to cut the corners.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Much better!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> stirrup length looks good in that video.
> 
> yeah, all around doing better. good job!
> 
> one thing you might work on, when you feel him trying to cut the corners on your circles , push him outward a bit, into a bit of a leg yield, just for a few strides , to remind him not to cut the corners.


It's something I need to work on is making him do a proper circle.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> It's something I need to work on is making him do a proper circle.


It's really hard if your horse has zero idea or wants to be stiff. But once they get it.... they GET it!

Also work on stabilizing your hands. They're better, but the more stable they are, the happier Mr. Roy will be to be on the bit


----------



## Rainaisabelle

He was more forward in that video believe it or not lol! I did have to remind him a couple of times to like speed up and keep the forward motion be he seemed to keep it up for longer then he used to.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> He was more forward in that video believe it or not lol! I did have to remind him a couple of times to like speed up and keep the forward motion be he seemed to keep it up for longer then he used to.


Oh I definitely saw the forward, much nicer overall when he's actually moving on! How did it feel


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Well it was different because he felt more balanced and like he wasn't running. It felt like I wasn't rising above his momentum. We did some walk work first and I worked on pushing him onto the outside rein and it felt like at the squeeze of my calf he would go into a trot. I still kept the crop just for extra motivation but he didn't really need it. 


We are still considering the injections for him and they might start next week.


----------



## tinyliny

I'm with you, sister. it's so hard to decide if the money and the bother is worth is.


do you ride him in other locales besides that pasture? it looks like a pleasant place to be. you are edging into winter, no? so, about what temp is it on average?
I've got family that live near Maleny, about an hour outside of Brisbane. is that anywhere near you? I know next to NOTHING about Australia. I know, . . pitiful.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> I'm with you, sister. it's so hard to decide if the money and the bother is worth is.
> 
> 
> do you ride him in other locales besides that pasture? it looks like a pleasant place to be. you are edging into winter, no? so, about what temp is it on average?
> I've got family that live near Maleny, about an hour outside of Brisbane. is that anywhere near you? I know next to NOTHING about Australia. I know, . . pitiful.


We have trails and I sometimes take him out depending on if it's flooded or not. I live in the tropics so it's barely a winter. At night we drop to 22 degrees and during the day it's still in the 30s. Brisbane is about 12 hours away from me  


I'm happy to spend the money what worries me is that it's only really a 50/50 chance it will work and I'm looking at $400


----------



## tinyliny

I would melt in such a climate. I prefer cool temps.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> I would melt in such a climate. I prefer cool temps.


It can get pretty bad and humid. Pretty hard to do anything I ride either really early or like 4-6ish


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Is there the option of nerve blocking the hip and seeing if that helps his movement?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Is there the option of nerve blocking the hip and seeing if that helps his movement?


It could be an option, the thing with these injections it benefits him either way even if it doesn't improve it. If it doesn't improve well nerve blocking will be next. As dorm one said though it could just be the way he is and the way he moves.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Good luck figuring out what is going on with Roy. I hope if you do end up using injections they'll take effect. From what I've seen they usually do, though that's in a less extreme climate. 

It's never fun being in horsey limbo wondering what's wrong. I hope it's something simple and easy.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Good luck figuring out what is going on with Roy. I hope if you do end up using injections they'll take effect. From what I've seen they usually do, though that's in a less extreme climate.
> 
> It's never fun being in horsey limbo wondering what's wrong. I hope it's something simple and easy.


The chiro is pretty certain we will have a good result as she said it doesn't seem severe or anything just something to help.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Just thought I would share a picture because I think he is looking **** fine! 

We had another ride, it went okay it was extremely windy and we have thousands of birds flying around so it was hard to keep him focused but he was very responsive and still kept forward movement. I noticed something that when I leg yield sometimes I scrunch my leg up rather then just putting it behind the girth and pushing so I worked on that as well and found he did better when I had my leg extended and behind the girth.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

He's getting there!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I know he needs more topline and bum but I still think he looks really good from where we started anyway.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

oops double posted! I looked back through my thread and I really see a difference!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Looks like a different horse !!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Pretty miserable in QLD at the moment as its raining and muddy ! Roy was good though I backed him into our 'stalls' and gave him a grooming and took his rug off for awhile


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I had a riding lesson today and it was really hard.. Physically and mentally.. I wanted my partner to take photos but he was to tired after he finished work. But I'll give you the run down.

Basically we worked on me being centred and not letting him pull me out. We did a lot at the walk but by the end even in the trot Roy was listening way better. I even got to shoulder in at the walk! Basically my instructor says I need to control the situation and get more feel because I was just letting him do what he wanted because I would panic (not in a scared way but like a what do I do way?) anyways it was really messy at the start but towards the end it was really good!


----------



## Tazzie

Congrats on a good lesson! You guys have made good progress


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> Congrats on a good lesson! You guys have made good progress


Blushing a bit


----------



## Tazzie

Haha, you have though!  and you seem driven to keep going, which is just as important


----------



## Zexious

Congrats on a positive lesson! It always feels so great to make progress <3


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Way to go!! Keep at it, you guys are doing great 

When is your next lesson?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> Haha, you have though!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and you seem driven to keep going, which is just as important


Roy just has this thing about him that screams potential. I know everyone says that but he just has something unique.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Way to go!! Keep at it, you guys are doing great
> 
> When is your next lesson?


Should be before the end of this month, she's going to NSW to do some clinics for her group 'Equine circle of influence' it's really interesting.





Zexious said:


> Congrats on a positive lesson! It always feels so great to make progress <3


It felt well I have the flu so afterwards I was like ' I am dead..' But I loved it even though it was messy and yuck at the start the end was fantastic.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

It sounds like you had a really positive, good lesson. Kudos! And glad you're getting another lesson soon. They can be so beneficial, keep going you're doing really well!! 

I'm sorry to hear you're sick. I hope you feel better soon. Never fun to have the flu and feel like death is upon you.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> It sounds like you had a really positive, good lesson. Kudos! And glad you're getting another lesson soon. They can be so beneficial, keep going you're doing really well!!
> 
> I'm sorry to hear you're sick. I hope you feel better soon. Never fun to have the flu and feel like death is upon you.


It was challenging because I know in my head that I am supposed to control the situation but I have trouble being completely insistent. That's what my instructor wants me to work on being insistent and strong. One of the worst things was he would run through my outside rein so I had to be a bit stronger but by the end it was fantastic.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Hey I forgot to I think show you the browband I got for Roy!


----------



## Tazzie

You'll get it! Heck, I'll admit there are times Izzie blows through my outside aids. It happens to all of us in our riding. But you learn. And lessons are a great place to get that information! He does have potential! I think you'll be shocked a year from now too :lol:

And that browband is gorgeous! I've always loved those browbands, but people would think I was insane if we wore those here :lol: they are so pretty though!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> You'll get it! Heck, I'll admit there are times Izzie blows through my outside aids. It happens to all of us in our riding. But you learn. And lessons are a great place to get that information! He does have potential! I think you'll be shocked a year from now too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that browband is gorgeous! I've always loved those browbands, but people would think I was insane if we wore those here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they are so pretty though!


I think I will be surprised! It really was one of the most educated lessons I have had. I've realised riding a horse you buy is a lot harder then a riding school horse! But it's fun.


The couple of things my instructor is stressing is consistency, being insistent and staying strong in my core. I lose my seat when I panic not so much that if spooked I would fall but enough that I've lost all contact with him. We really worked on my outside rein and that I might have to get strong with him when he is ignoring me and just doing what he wants to get out of it. Being insistent is definitely something I struggle with, I feel like I don't know how much is to much you know? By the end it didn't feel as though I was pulling a freight train with a piece of bailing twine lol!




That's interesting because browbands are so commonly used over here !


----------



## Tazzie

We can have blingy browbands, but I've never seen one like that here :lol: I haven't ever seen one in person actually. Ours have crystals or beads on them :lol: but I've always liked the ones like you have!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Well here's some shots of Roy in his browband!


----------



## Tazzie

That looks so awesome on him!! I love it!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> That looks so awesome on him!! I love it!


Aw thanks! I'm leaving for the clinic on Friday afternoon ! I am so excited!!!! My instructor has also invited me to a clinic in June !


----------



## Zexious

Wow! He looks so handsome in his new brow band!!

It's true, Tazzie! The "ribbon" brow brands are not popular in the US. Our version is the Swarovski kind, for the disciplines that allow it! ;D
I have pink crystals inlaid in my spurs. Shhhh, don't tell


----------



## Rainaisabelle

It's so popular over here! Especially with Inhand showing and hacking


----------



## Tazzie

We just have sparkly browbands! But I would totally wear the ribbon ones if I wouldn't get laughed at :lol:

And I have no clue why I can't like your post :sad:


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

I love the bling browbands but the ribbon one is really cool. It looks great on Roy!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I also have a bling browband on my other bridle  #spoilt lol

Gave Roy a bath and conditioned his tail and mane he smells so pretty! I'll have to rewash his socks though when we get up there but he's looking good!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

He's looking great!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> He's looking great!!


We have just started him on oats! Loving it


----------



## Rainaisabelle

But nervous as everyone is going to be riding this afternoon they're all more experienced and can canter and I'm just a bit nervous!


----------



## Tazzie

Breathe! You'll be fine!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> Breathe! You'll be fine!


I'm a bit sad but what can I say. One of the girls was very blunt and said Roy has a grass belly and needs more coverage on his ribs and a bigger bum.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I do appreciate the bluntness but I thought he looked pretty good


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

You're going to do great!! Positive thinking makes a big difference. Believe and do your best and no matter what you will! Just come out having learned something new.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

First photo!


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> I do appreciate the bluntness but I thought he looked pretty good



first of all, did you ASK them for an opinion? (figures!)

secondly, if they knew where you'd come from they'd know that Roy looks amazing!!!!!!! so, do not let flippant remarks take you down. you've done beautifully with him, and that is your 'ribbon', and YOU know it, and WE know it. . . . so there!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Haha thanks tiny! It's even sadder though that they know where he started and were there at the beginning. Anyway I asked a professionals opinion and he said that Roy is fine he just needs work and muscle. 

It was a really fun clinic, I did take some photos but we didn't really get made up so to speak we did practice a lot! Roys mane was really thick though so I could t braid it, I have to do it piece by piece. 

Overall I learned a lot and did enjoy certain aspects of the clinic


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I have to give Roy the highest praise because he stood tied and patient all day and during when I lunged him in the morning he was beautiful and rhymithic it did take him a while to stretch but we were in a new environment.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Unfortunately we didn't get to make the horses up fully  but we did plait Roys tail but his mane was to thick. Also a photo of me screwing up his eye makeup lol!


----------



## NavigatorsMom

He looks beautiful in these most recent pictures! Such a handsome horse 

What kind of clinic was it?


----------



## tinyliny

Raina,

I don't want to come of as being too critical, but the placement of the rope halter on Roy's face needs some correction. the halter is tied much too loose and low. the knot should be right up , as close to his ear as you can get it without being restrictively tight around his throat. it should rest right behind his big jawbone , next to his neck. this will bring that much too low nose band port up higher where it is supposed to be.

the knots on the nose band part should rest about halfway up his long face. where it is in this photo, if he were to pull back hard, or step on his lead, and put a lot of sudden pressure on it, it could break the cartilage in his nose, since the halter is not resting on the bony face, but rather on the cartilaginous part of the nose (too low)


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Raina,
> 
> I don't want to come of as being too critical, but the placement of the rope halter on Roy's face needs some correction. the halter is tied much too loose and low. the knot should be right up , as close to his ear as you can get it without being restrictively tight around his throat. it should rest right behind his big jawbone , next to his neck. this will bring that much too low nose band port up higher where it is supposed to be.
> 
> the knots on the nose band part should rest about halfway up his long face. where it is in this photo, if he were to pull back hard, or step on his lead, and put a lot of sudden pressure on it, it could break the cartilage in his nose, since the halter is not resting on the bony face, but rather on the cartilaginous part of the nose (too low)


No you are correct, we did fix it after the photo but it kept coming loose even after 3 different people tied it, looks like he might need a new halter.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> He looks beautiful in these most recent pictures! Such a handsome horse
> 
> What kind of clinic was it?


It was a show prepping clinic, basically you go through putting make up on/clipping/plaiting etc you also go through what is expected of you and what you should do in the show ring. The second day was lessons and I wasn't riding but I watched and they were quite interesting he even rode someone's horse !!


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> No you are correct, we did fix it after the photo but it kept coming loose even after 3 different people tied it, looks like he might need a new halter.


not sure what's causing that slipping, but would this video help at all?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> No you are correct, we did fix it after the photo but it kept coming loose even after 3 different people tied it, looks like he might need a new halter.
> 
> 
> 
> not sure what's causing that slipping, but would this video help at all?
Click to expand...

That's how we tie our halters, maybe it just wasn't tight enough


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/VoW-gCzReNM 

Here's a video of us lunging


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So to start off, 

I love my instructor 100% but I am considering possibly using something like a Pessoa to help Roy, but I'm not sure if it's the right decision. I've never used one before but his first owner after racing used one and said it really benefitted him and he was quite fit. But my instructor doesn't like gadgets so I'm not sure ? 

Any thoughts ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

What is your goal with the pessoa ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> What is your goal with the pessoa ?


Well I've never actually used one. I was hoping it would help build up his top line a bit but as I've never used one I'm not sure if it would work for me or if it's even worth it ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Well it would put him into a position, but it won't magically build topline if the horse isn't working properly in the first place.

I think for now, you just need to keep working on him moving out more on the lungeline, and keeping the circle round. When he's got that down, then that would be a better time to consider putting him in a lunge-helper as I call them. 

But first and foremost he needs to be FORWARD and with energy


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Well it would put him into a position, but it won't magically build topline if the horse isn't working properly in the first place.
> 
> I think for now, you just need to keep working on him moving out more on the lungeline, and keeping the circle round. When he's got that down, then that would be a better time to consider putting him in a lunge-helper as I call them.
> 
> But first and foremost he needs to be FORWARD and with energy


Yeah you're probably right


----------



## Skyseternalangel

How is riding him going? And any updates on the hip injection?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> How is riding him going? And any updates on the hip injection?


I rode him on Monday and he was good, very distracted though as there were kids moving barrels around and making heaps of noise. I'm still waiting on the injections as we are waiting for the medication to get in so hopefully in the next couple of weeks it will happen.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I might need to come up with an exercise plan :/ What should I do ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I got a longer lunge line today and I asked for the canter. At first he gave me complete attitude but after awhile he started to go quite well. We have also been doing loads of trot pole work and trotting nicely. I am going to try and ride him before uni tomorrow morning so hopefully I can fit it in.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I got a longer lunge line today and I asked for the canter. At first he gave me complete attitude but after awhile he started to go quite well. We have also been doing loads of trot pole work and trotting nicely. I am going to try and ride him before uni tomorrow morning so hopefully I can fit it in.


Wonderful! As for exercise plan, I would incorporate lungework twice a week, and rides whenever and focus on FORWARD (rhythm too) and bending until it becomes much better... then work on connection and then play with different tempos. 

Then at least 1 day of spoiling him with grazing in hand and a nice grooming session only.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Didn't get to ride but I passed my OSCE and I just have med calcs left whoooo!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We have changed Roys feed again .... We started a product called hygain zero and also lupins which are these awesome legumes that swell to twice there size !


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Gradually I hope? Lots of diet changes in a short amount of time can be stressful to their digestive system.

You can cold-turkey feeds but starting new ones has to be gradual.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We always start new feeds gradually  but we cold turkeyed him with the oats.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Really crappy image but is that a good hind leg reach ?


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Looks like a decent reach, though a video would probably be easier to evaluate. 

If the horse is reaching really well he'll be tracking up, so the back foot will land in the footprint of the front foot (if that makes sense). Some horses have an advantage because of a short back and will track up really easily with very little effort, longer backed horses will have to work more.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> Looks like a decent reach, though a video would probably be easier to evaluate.
> 
> If the horse is reaching really well he'll be tracking up, so the back foot will land in the footprint of the front foot (if that makes sense). Some horses have an advantage because of a short back and will track up really easily with very little effort, longer backed horses will have to work more.


He's really short backed lol, we have issues with tracking up obviously because of his hip which is why we are going to trial the injections.


The videos not very good as we are fighting for some of it because he was ignoring me and I didn't appreciate it! So I made my presence known to him


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Urghhhhhhhjh noooooo I'm so annoyed ! Our ride was just crap it felt crap all over. I have a video but I feel ashamed of it ! 


I have decided that while I'm still going to get lessons with Roy I am going to get lessons on a school horse as well. 

Video to be put up soon


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Sometimes crap rides happen :/ Tonight Sky was an ***... but we eventually got there. He wasn't happy we were riding at 9pm...

His reach is better than it's been! Keep asking for more!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Sometimes crap rides happen :/ Tonight Sky was an ***... but we eventually got there. He wasn't happy we were riding at 9pm...
> 
> His reach is better than it's been! Keep asking for more!


It was just frustrating ! At the walk I can easily get him onto the outside rein but in the trot it's like grrr


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/t4FbpkKrtSA


https://youtu.be/HiQQcIfgWxI


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Sorry about your bad ride. Are these videos from that ride? They honestly don't look too bad to me! 

He seems to be trying to reach forward for you at the trot, but is not sure if that's what you want. I think the biggest thing that would help you guys right now is just getting forward and moving energetically. Once you get that I think a lot of other things will start to fall into place much more easily.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

:/ My youtube doesn't like your links. I think it's just being a jerk. I'll figure out how to watch them Raina.

I agree about forward and energetically moving, though. That is step one!


----------



## Tazzie

I agree he just needs more forward right now. He's looking better, but I know you feel more than we see. I will say, he's definitely more forward than in other videos I've seen of him. You've come a long way


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Forward has me stumped... I know it's not running it's about moving enthusiastically and I know he can do it! But I'm not sure how to get him doing it.


The other thing is keeping a 20m circle, but I had some help from a friend last night so hopefully I can work it out today.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Out of curiosity though is foam on the bit good ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I cantered Roy today... Well my partner was leading but I still did it ! It was fun I just need to remember to relax and not tense up


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here is our ride today, yet again his head is up but I was working on getting a more accurate 20m circle and more forward. 

https://youtu.be/_DCCEi-cU44


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Much more forward, great job!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Much more forward, great job!!


Just need to practice holding the whip and asking for bend lol


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I just want to say that I am really proud of Roy, I know that he isn't exactly stretching for the contact but I honestly think that is the best circle we have ever done! He moved over when I asked it was awesome. The canter was messy but I just need to learn to be more relaxed and sit deep.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Do you have footage of the canter?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Do you have footage of the canter?


No as my partner was leading him. It was messy because I leaned back instead of sitting up and putting my weight properly into the stirrups, I almost fell off a couple of times. Which is probably not what you guys want to hear lol but to me it was about make it enjoyable and fun rather then this ginormous scary thing that I am to anxious to do.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Definitely make it fun


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Definitely make it fun


It was pretty **** terrible but fun ! He's got a big canter so it's going to be tricky to try and sit it !


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

You should be really proud of that canter circle. You both have improved a TON. That's the most balanced, forward and organized I've seen you guys go. Major kudos! Roy looks very pleasant and happy 

With canter, it can take some getting used to a large mover but when you feel yourself nervous and tense try to focus on long deep breaths and slowly inhaling and exhaling and allow yourself to move, even though you might feel scared. Maybe your partner could lunge you and you could practice canter or having a lunging lesson so you can focus on you relaxing into the canter while someone else manages Roy? Make it enjoyable, you'll find your canter seat.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> You should be really proud of that canter circle. You both have improved a TON. That's the most balanced, forward and organized I've seen you guys go. Major kudos! Roy looks very pleasant and happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With canter, it can take some getting used to a large mover but when you feel yourself nervous and tense try to focus on long deep breaths and slowly inhaling and exhaling and allow yourself to move, even though you might feel scared. Maybe your partner could lunge you and you could practice canter or having a lunging lesson so you can focus on you relaxing into the canter while someone else manages Roy? Make it enjoyable, you'll find your canter seat.



Roy can be hard on the lunge at the canter even on the longer one its something we are working on. I'm not sure why he's like that he just is. I figure if I can canter in anyway to go for it because atleast it's something. I prefer to ride Roy although a friend has offered to let me canter on the lunge on her horse.


I actually thought he was annoyed in that video, was I rising to fast for him? I was having trouble balancing the whip and trying to ask for bend but I will take what I can get and I really think he tried and he did keep an excellent circle best one I have seen him do.


----------



## Tazzie

That video shows VAST improvement I think. Much better forward motion. You can see he is very close to overtracking, which is good!

As for the rising, I don't think you are. You can ask for longer by going more forward over the pommel of the saddle and come back. So not faster, but you're in the air longer. It (typically) encourages them to lengthen out a bit more and you won't find yourself rising so fast.

Congrats on the canter!! It takes time to gather everything up and get it sorted out. Definitely lots and lots of deep breaths to calm your nerves.

And yes, foam on the bit can be VERY good. Shows a relaxed jaw and a horse that is comfortable with the work


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> That video shows VAST improvement I think. Much better forward motion. You can see he is very close to overtracking, which is good!
> 
> As for the rising, I don't think you are. You can ask for longer by going more forward over the pommel of the saddle and come back. So not faster, but you're in the air longer. It (typically) encourages them to lengthen out a bit more and you won't find yourself rising so fast.
> 
> Congrats on the canter!! It takes time to gather everything up and get it sorted out. Definitely lots and lots of deep breaths to calm your nerves.
> 
> And yes, foam on the bit can be VERY good. Shows a relaxed jaw and a horse that is comfortable with the work


Thank you! I thought that was definitely the best and most organized and neat ride we have done! I am incorporating pole work as well but we didn't get it on video which I think is definitely helping.


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Yes, I agree the trot video was very good!! He's definitely making improvement. Can't wait to see you canter!  Pole work can definitely help to make a horse pay more attention to it's legs and lift it's back. That would be beneficial.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

One thing I a struggling with is getting Roy to do a shoulder in, I block with my inside rein but i find if I ask for bed he goes in that direction am I not using enough leg?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Any tips ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Reins control shoulders, seat/leg controls hind end.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

In shoulder in I use my outside rein, knee, leg for the shoulder. Take it off once I have my angle. Put a little more weight in my inside seat bone, support the bend and the rib cage with my inside knee (on/off) and support with inside leg to control inside hind leg and outside rein half halt but always sending my horse through. He must not lose impulsion or energy or lose the suppleness.

Biggest mistakes I see and I see a lot of trainers, even ones through their gold medal will have their students haunches/shoulder ins that look almost like they're leg yielding into it because they lack the throughness and bend in the ribcage. Haunches in is inside flexion with haunches coming in, shoulder bent around the inside leg haunches brought in off the outside leg. Bend before angle. 

A good way to introduce it at walk is ride an accurate 10m circle and when you come to the straight away maintain the outside rein connection half half and support with your inside leg on/off. Inside leg on when you feel him pick up his inside leg or that moment you feel his rib cage push into your inside leg and start to move towards your outside leg is when you apply leg. It takes a lot of practice to feel and organize. But it's your mental projection of expecting him to travel on the track (not turn) with inside leg/outside rein organization that will keep him in shoulder in front the track. If you can control the shoulders, you can control his balance and steering. 

Inside leg on/off, outside rein half halt.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I miss my baby :/ been away for 4 days


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I miss my baby :/ been away for 4 days


Awww! Go see your boy!!!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I miss my baby :/ been away for 4 days
> 
> 
> 
> Awww! Go see your boy!!!!
Click to expand...

If I get home from placement early enough I might otherwise tomorrow I might go for a ride early tomorrow .


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Going to ride tomorrow after buddy has puppy preschool (5months now!!) he's almost doubled in size !


I'm going to work a lot more on my core and my seat. I find it hard to keep my leg sort of in line with the rest of my body.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Oh that's the other thing, what can I do or what should I do to stop Roy from gaping? I noticed he did it while racing and sometimes does it when he stretches down? Should I push him more forward or?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Oh that's the other thing, what can I do or what should I do to stop Roy from gaping? I noticed he did it while racing and sometimes does it when he stretches down? Should I push him more forward or?


Check that you aren't pulling back, or having reins so short it's pulling.

If they're a good length (from videos and pics they are..) then leg on and keep your hands where they are at but when he quits then soften a little. Let him learn not to brace against you


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/IODlhy9T--I
https://youtu.be/bCnQZTY8lqg

I really wanted to get a video of my ride today but I only got a really short video of like 10 seconds of my ride because my partner somehow managed to get the tree in my paddock practically through the whole video... I tried this exercise called the drunken sailor but in still getting used to leg yielding and using the dressage whip to help reinforce it...


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Looking good in those videos! He's starting to move with more energy, especially in the lunging video, be persistent and don't let him go until he responds to you.  Remember with leg yielding you want forward motion as well as lateral, so don't let him get lazy by focusing too much on the lateral.

Also meant to say, the second video isn't leg yielding as much as it is just weaving between cones. You want the hind end to stay in line with the shoulders, and you can see he is letting his drift behind. Your outside leg (the leg you are yielding away from) should be behind the girth, so you can help keep the hind end pushed over and behind the shoulders. Inside leg should be at the girth, and you'll try to put a bit more weight on the direction that you are moving.

So, if you are trying to yield toward the left, your left leg would be at the girth with a bit more weight in that stirrup/seat bone, and you right leg would be behind the girth cueing for the move. Yielding toward the fence sometimes makes it easier because horses will typically want to go to the rail.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Use the whip, tap gently, right behind your leg with pulling on that inside rein, use outside rein (the one you are leg yielding towards) to halfhalt.

Nice lunging though


----------



## Rainaisabelle

The dream right lol? I didn't think it was yielding but I am dreaming !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I rode today and it was such a good ride and I was so excited to show you guys! but my phone overheated and died and didn't record! I am so upset

Roy was so forward and started to drop his head and bend it was beautiful! It was one of those rides!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I didn't get to see Roy for my birthday but it was pretty good still, had a good time on placement still have 3 days ! Can't wait for it to end!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm so tired ! Roys injections start this week and his feet get done next week


----------



## Tazzie

I hope his injections go well!! Hopefully it'll help him out!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yeah hopefully ! Hey how do you guys ask for bed ? I was told not to pull back ?


----------



## Tihannah

I don't know how I always missed this journal, but I was kinda speeding through to catch up! Lol. I watched several of your videos and each one gets better and better! This is SOOO hard, especially when you don't have a trainer there on the ground to help talk you through it, so I can definitely feel your frustration at times. I think you have a great group of supporters here giving you great advice!

Tess can be really hard to bend sometimes. You definitely do not want to pull back. I was taught to give inside leg to outside rein. It's difficult to explain and I'm probably one of the least experienced rider here, so maybe one of the others will pop in soon and give you a better explanation.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> I don't know how I always missed this journal, but I was kinda speeding through to catch up! Lol. I watched several of your videos and each one gets better and better! This is SOOO hard, especially when you don't have a trainer there on the ground to help talk you through it, so I can definitely feel your frustration at times. I think you have a great group of supporters here giving you great advice!
> 
> Tess can be really hard to bend sometimes. You definitely do not want to pull back. I was taught to give inside leg to outside rein. It's difficult to explain and I'm probably one of the least experienced rider here, so maybe one of the others will pop in soon and give you a better explanation.


I understand the getting them on the outside rein, it's something I'm sort of stuggling with because I have a dressage whip! Not enough legs and arms lol.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I have another video for you guys its only lunging because I forgot my saddle pad... Awkward.. Anyway I want you guys to see if I'm doing the right thing or if it's something I'm doing that's making him cranky when I ask for the canter ? We do have a bit of a change sides issue which I will be working on possibly on the shorter lunge line.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/9xq_bGPYy8w 

Whoops thought I attached to the last post


----------



## Tazzie

Rainaisabelle said:


> Yeah hopefully ! Hey how do you guys ask for bed ? I was told not to pull back ?


Bend? Or back?

Bend I've heard a few ways to do it. One is to act like you are turning the key in your car. I don't necessarily care for this approach since then my hands are twisting side to side. I bend by putting my leg at the girth with super slight pressure so she bends around my leg, not just her neck, and bend my wrist slightly toward my torso. Not pulling, just putting a bit of pressure on the inside rein to remind her that bending isn't optional. And I don't hold it for long unless we're in super resistant mode. Then I'll ask a little sterner, but go back to being light.

Back I start with a good halt. Slide both legs back and close my hands. Only option is backwards.

I'm thinking you meant bend, but figured I'd toss back in just in case :lol:


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Bend lol! Not sure how I got bed!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Ride into the outside rein with inside leg..outside leg stops lateral movement by just existing/draping along side so horse "wraps" around inside leg. Open the inside rein until enough flexion is there and then return to regular placement. Turns happen with outside aids, not pulling.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Awesome thanks guys .. Sky can you see the lunging video or is it black again ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I have 2 riding videos, it was an okay ride but I felt a bit sloppy and I was finding it hard to use my inside leg, no idea why but it was.

https://youtu.be/iXXzoYw71kY 

https://youtu.be/k0Hm75M--tI



https://youtu.be/_aml2LV4Dwg


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Can't believe how grainy they are !!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

My old instructor is back ! She's going to come and watch me ride and give me a few tips !


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Those videos look good! He looks like he's going much more forward and a couple of times tries to reach forward and down for you even. You are definitely improving!! 

Great news about your trainer coming back!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yeah I am so glad shes back, we don't always agree on things as shes very German trained but shes a really good rider!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

@ Nav
I was going to respond to your whole post! Yes he does try to put his head forward and down ! I think what's going on is when I wasn't asking for forward and we were just doing a slow trot he could do it but now I'm asking for him to sort of use himself he's like wow this is hard work


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So Roy got his first injection on Monday and got his feet trimmed today, I got my trimmer who is also an equine sports therapist to give him an assessment and his back and neck where he is usually sore were perfect but his back end was quite sore... I'm not sure if this is because I'm now asking more of him or something else :/ hopefully these injections help


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/NwympcO_ptc 

This is from our ride today, I think I need to work more on getting him connected to the outside rein


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I also think I need to work on keeping my outside rein more steady but I am struggling with bend. I am exaggerating my inside rein because he's not bending, I don't want to pull or yank but my arm is far out and I'm putting on inside leg..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm going to get a friend to come and help me...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much is going on with Roy, I noticed minor improvements after the first injection even though they said we wouldn't see anything until after the 3rd shot. My old trainer and I are going to pick up her new lease a warmblood gelding who she is putting some show experience on ! we might be going to a small show in June and she would like me to give walk/trot test a try


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Are you also going to get his hocks injected?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

His trot looks SOOOOOO much better in the recent video, wow. 1:33-1:37 is my fav part.

One thing, when you go from walk (warmup walk) to trot, the reins need to shorten a little bit. At walk, the horse bobs their head each stride. At trot, the head remains in place so shorten the reins to prepare for that change.

Also as the ride progresses, bring the horse from a lower relaxed w/t to a more "packaged" w/t. So once you trot and go back to walk, give him a nice break for maybe half a lap. Then gather your reins up (not too short) and go into a bending exercise: serpentines. Then when you go to trot again, shorten your reins like maybe 1.5 inches, and trot, continuing to do the bending exercise. If you have to exagerate the rein aids at first to get his shoulders to move, then do so. Then experiment on trying to do less with the reins but still getting that bendy serpentine. Then try to incorporate your legs to ask his barrel to move over, and just open the rein. Then try it without opening the rein but flexing ever so slightly on the inside rein but riding him into the outside rein through the turn by asking for inside leg to step under his body via using YOUR inside leg and "blocking" with your outside leg without using too much force.

Hopefully that made sense, but the point is gradually change once your horse understands each step. Then try adding more, and doing less. 

It may sound cryptic, but try it out.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

A further note, once he can do the serpentine with you doing less (with your rein cues) yet adding more (leg, flex) then move on from that exercise, give him a break, and then gather up your reins again and try a circle, or a figure eight.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Are you also going to get his hocks injected?


Um no I don't think so, but the injection goes into the neck and does its work on its own repairing cartilage and such. It's a pretty big injection as well its 10mL each time which doesn't seem like a lot but it's a lot for what I've seen lol.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Now when I was asking about bend I was actually asking how do you guys ask for flex but I somehow got myself confused..


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> https://youtu.be/NwympcO_ptc
> 
> This is from our ride today, I think I need to work more on getting him connected to the outside rein



horse has much more animation than in past riding videos. either he is feeling better, and/or you are more stable and he trusts your hands more, or both. it's nice to see you have him more forward, as this will make any and all other things you do with him easier.

I know I harp on this a lot, but don't let your hands fall down so low. it looks a bit like you are using them to balance yourself. test this by holding the reins in one hand and putting the other (inside ar m) across your belly , and keep posting. 
since you don't have anyone to give you lungeline lessons, you can sort of do it for short periods of time, where you let him carry on forward, and just work solely on having reallly solid balance .

the lunging video also showed a lot of improvment. well done! you looked really steady, calm and clear. just remember not to randomly use your whip, so that it starts to become backgroiund noise to Roy.
and, when you are turning him, or asking him to continue on forward, use your leading hand first to direct with a little pull on the line, then back up with whip, if needed. oh, and one more thing related to that . . when you DO put a pull on the line asking him to go forward, make sure it is not you pulling the line back behind you, becuase this is effectively asking him to come closer to you. have your hand pointing in the direction you want him to step toward, then put a tug on the line.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

He's definitely feeling better ! With my hands I'm trying to remember to keep them up but old habits die hard... I've always been taught to ride with hands low so I sometimes drop them by accident. But I will give that exercise a try.


----------



## tinyliny

I guess, more than whether or not one's hands are high or low is the importance of having that direct line of contact (if you ARE on contact with the hrose's mouth) from bit to elbow.
having a good bend in the elbow helps. and that old thing a trainer taught me: think of your thumbs as lasers that should point directly at the bit rings.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> I guess, more than whether or not one's hands are high or low is the importance of having that direct line of contact (if you ARE on contact with the hrose's mouth) from bit to elbow.
> having a good bend in the elbow helps. and that old thing a trainer taught me: think of your thumbs as lasers that should point directly at the bit rings.


That's a good way of remembering it ! I am going to try that exercise !


----------



## tinyliny

yeah, I got that bit from a lesson I had, one of the few I've had the pleasure to have in the last 10 years. (before that I took dressage lessons for some years) 
I really must get some more lessons. it's so hard to teach yourself. I think you're doing splendidly, though.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I had a lesson with my old trainer today I think it went really well and she said we have really improved. Some things I was slightly uncomfortable with but maybe you guys understand it better. I'm not see sawer and I don't like it but she says it's not so maybe I am misunderstanding.

So this is what she said ask for inside rein and half halt on the outside and when he drops push him into the contact.


I have a video so I'll show you guys later


----------



## Skyseternalangel

A side note... hands can be low in warmup when you're starting out. If they're too high initially, then you're pulling your horse up when they need to stretch out first.

Then as the ride progresses, hands come more up so that you aren't pulling the horse down but instead are going with them.

It's easy to lean on the reins, but the exercise tinyliny mentioned should help deter that. 

Also if you think about them floating infront of you instead of being a "rope" that you have to keep taught, it may help.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/c988v8XoCD8 here we go


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Nice trot, missy!!! Even a few moments of a giving not-stiff horse!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Thanks ! It was such hard work but really good, she even got on him after me because he started to play up and she said it wasn't me he just doesn't want to do it because it's hard work and he's still sort of taking me for a ride ... Well live and learn! She thinks he has really improved since she last saw him as he's less choppy and more rhythmic but he's also more responsive. She said he can do this I just need to be more insistent !


Unfortunately she didn't get to pick up her lease horse :/ we got there and his hock was swollen to the size of a baseball and he was on antibiotics and bute which the lady didn't tell her!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

One thing I was going to say that she did say that I need to fix my legs and put more weight into the stirrups


----------



## tinyliny

yes. that will be good. have you experimented with different stirrup lengths?

your video showed many good moments


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> yes. that will be good. have you experimented with different stirrup lengths?
> 
> your video showed many good moments


Yes I have I think in that video they might have been a bit short so we dropped them by one hole and it was way better ! My back has been getting sore but I think it was from the short stirrups. I wish my partner got the second part of my ride it was fantastic.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

It looks like you've made a lot of improvement together. I'm glad you're getting lessons, I hope she can help you out! You're getting him more forward, you balance is improving, good things. You should be happy, it looks like you've made a lot of progress 

On a side note with hands. The height shouldn't change from warm up to working. You can carry your hands wide if youre having a hard time with contact or helping to redirect a horse to the connection, sometimes we'll raise the inside rein or lower the outside rein or carry one hand out to help with directing the shoulders on greener horses but that's complicated but for the most part they should be consistent. But even doing collected work on a more advanced horse, you don't ride with high hands. Hands shouldn't be too low that your arms are locked out but not so high that you lose the shoulders and make the horse hollow it's neck and back and becomes crooked.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> It looks like you've made a lot of improvement together. I'm glad you're getting lessons, I hope she can help you out! You're getting him more forward, you balance is improving, good things. You should be happy, it looks like you've made a lot of progress
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note with hands. The height shouldn't change from warm up to working. You can carry your hands wide if youre having a hard time with contact or helping to redirect a horse to the connection, sometimes we'll raise the inside rein or lower the outside rein or carry one hand out to help with directing the shoulders on greener horses but that's complicated but for the most part they should be consistent. But even doing collected work on a more advanced horse, you don't ride with high hands. Hands shouldn't be too low that your arms are locked out but not so high that you lose the shoulders and make the horse hollow it's neck and back and becomes crooked.


I'm totally in agreement but I really do feel it depends who you ride with or get taught by. I found German trainers want hands lower then classical more Portuguese/French/Spanish trainers who want you to carry your hands higher or my current instructor is making me exagerate it so I will carry my hands as she says. 


I've been getting lessons for awhile but unfortunately with uni and work the lessons were few and far. I feel sort of bad because I'm getting tips with my old trainer but I have an instructor..


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

That is true. It depends on the system of training you work under on what you're taught. One of the frustrating things about dressage and horses in general is there are a lot of contradictory and varying methods. The best thing IMO is to stick to one until you really know it then learn from the others. 

Personally I follow more neoclassical methods which is along the lines of Carl Hester, Hubertus Schmidt, and Jan Bemelmans (trainer of Spanish olympic team with Fuego and I guess now he's the french team trainer). It focuses more on keeping the back up, releasing the lower muscles from the base of the neck, lifting up out of the wither and reaching for the contact without pulling back, always sending forward.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I want you guys to help me with something or get your opinions, as you may have noticed in the videos Roy is a gaper and I'm not really sure what to do about it.. He does it even on a loose rein :/ I've gotten his teeth checked and no issues there the dentist is coming in June so I might get him to do his again though :/ I've tried different bits... What should I do? Or how can I fix it ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Are you certain the bit is positioned correctly? Right side up, not buckled too high or low?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Are you certain the bit is positioned correctly? Right side up, not buckled too high or low?


I'm 95% sure it's the right way up but how can I tell if it's positioned correctly ? I've have two different opinions when I went to the clinic he said it was way to low but then my instructor said it was to high.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I'm 95% sure it's the right way up but how can I tell if it's positioned correctly ? I've have two different opinions when I went to the clinic he said it was way to low but then my instructor said it was to high.


The horse will tell you. Too high, it's always putting pressure. Too low and it's interfering and being annoying so horses will fiddle.

I don't advise doing the wrinkles because some horses have more or less, so it's not accurate. 

Take a profile picture (from the side, not talking fb here) of his head with bridle on. From both sides.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'll try and get one tomorrow... I know he plays with it


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## Rainaisabelle

Here we go

https://youtu.be/K942elzYnGk


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## Skyseternalangel

The noseband on the left side (right pic) seems lower than the other side by a good 1-2 holes.


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## DanteDressageNerd

To me the bit looks a bit low. My test is generally not lip folds (every horse is different) or where it sits but I check the crown piece. If you can lift the crown piece and there is a ton of space, it's too low. It should be snug, not tight or pinching but snug at the crown. Noseband should be a few cms higher.

But I'm glad you got to ride him bareback, it looks really peaceful out there!


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## Rainaisabelle

I might go back to his other bridle, this one I'm pretty sure the leather has stretched :/ **** really liked this bridle as well!


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## Rainaisabelle

Here we go 

So :/ idk my ride was okay. I feel like he's really fighting me when I ask for flexion! It's making me quite annoyed with him because I know he can do it but I'm not even sure what a stronger aid is when asking for flexion..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I am going to ride today again and I braided Roy up but I didn't get to ride when I braided because it started raining so hopefully it's dry this afternoon!


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## Rainaisabelle

Thought I would let you guys know that I cantered Roy on the lunge today! I didn't lose my stirrups but my friend says I need to sit more as I am not sitting deep enough but I did it!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

One thing I have to say is I feel like I'm stuck in a rut and I don't know what direction I should take or how to proceed :/


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## Tazzie

Your braid looks fantastic!! And congrats on cantering! The more you canter, the more you will figure out how to sit the canter. It'll come 

As for being stuck, that was when I went and took a lesson. She gave me stuff to work on, and new exercises to do.

Have you done spiral circles? Spiraling in and out? It can help improve self carriage when done correctly. Just something new to do.


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## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> Your braid looks fantastic!! And congrats on cantering! The more you canter, the more you will figure out how to sit the canter. It'll come
> 
> As for being stuck, that was when I went and took a lesson. She gave me stuff to work on, and new exercises to do.
> 
> Have you done spiral circles? Spiraling in and out? It can help improve self carriage when done correctly. Just something new to do.


We have been trying spiralling and my old instructor said she would help but I'm really conflicted I know I've spoken to some people from here on if what she's teaching is see sawing and I have been told it's not by a few people. She's coming out on Sunday to help so I'll see how it goes my worry is by asking him to put his head down and then pushing him into it am I doing everything backwards ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> We have been trying spiralling and my old instructor said she would help but I'm really conflicted I know I've spoken to some people from here on if what she's teaching is see sawing and I have been told it's not by a few people. She's coming out on Sunday to help so I'll see how it goes my worry is by asking him to put his head down and then pushing him into it am I doing everything backwards ?


Can you describe it in detail to me please?



Rainaisabelle said:


> One thing I have to say is I feel like I'm stuck in a rut and I don't know what direction I should take or how to proceed :/


You just cantered and it's been months! Yes it was on the lunge but this is great!!

I really think you should focus on not riding a single straight line until Roy bends even just a little and then reward him by giving him a little break on the straight away. Lots of circles, figure eights, serpentines, spiraling in and out.


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## Rainaisabelle

So my interpretation or how I can describe it is asking for inside flexion so you can see the inside eye while half halting on the outside rein and when he starts to put his head down or give as I call it to push him into the contact but also trying to hold the position and ask him to move forward into it. 

She wants me to work on flexion and bend at the moment because she says he can do it but he's just ignoring my light aids but I'm not sure what a stronger aid for it is or how strong I should get..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

She also says to use inside leg to push him out but it's hard because sometimes he just ignores it, I was considering using Spurs as he's not listening to my leg or whip.


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## Tazzie

There is 100 ways to skin a cat, and a 100 ways to get the horse to bend and come round.

The way your trainer is teaching you is fine. That is, as long as you are in fact releasing. Bend and soften is a mantra of a lot of people, including the trainer I grew up riding with. I also agree with Sky to stay on a circle. Circles are your friend. They will help reinforce your true bend and get you into the outside rein. You can get a horse to sit more after they are on contact. That outside rein is how you will move the shoulders for things such as shoulder in. You need a good, steady one.

I wouldn't go to spurs. You need incredibly quiet legs for spurs, and spurs are more of a "fine tune" cue. Not a "you are ignoring my leg so move over NOW" aid. If he's dull to the leg and whip, you need to start working on resensitizing him to it. A dressage horse can not be dull to your leg as you cue for SO many things with your legs. I will give you credit though. I trained Izzie to be extremely sharp to my legs purely because I grew up riding horses that were very dull to my legs. I don't have the strength and desire to keep a horse forward that won't go off my leg.

I just worry, also, that if you jump into using spurs to force the horse to yield to your leg, you will wind up dulling him to them as well.


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## Skyseternalangel

If he isn't listening to the whip, you need to vamp the pressure up OR do a leg breathing exercise. If they are ignoring you, you give the reins (almost like a beginner so that there is zero chance of catching the horse in the mouth) and then you "spank them" (as in intense pressure either by pulsing your legs or kicking with your legs) and use the whip until they shoot forward. Allow them to go and then quietly bring them back and ask nicely again. Repeat until a slight cue of the leg is respected.


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## Rainaisabelle

I might go back to ground work with him regarding leg. It wasn't my idea to have Spurs as I don't think I have quiet enough leg to wear them.


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## Skyseternalangel

Ground work is a completely different "leg" than riding leg. Sky is sensitive on the ground, not so much under saddle except after I do leg breathing exercise. Then he is soft and attentive which is how we managed those halt to trot transitions


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## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Ground work is a completely different "leg" than riding leg. Sky is sensitive on the ground, not so much under saddle except after I do leg breathing exercise. Then he is soft and attentive which is how we managed those halt to trot transitions


I'll try the leg breathing exercise but when I say leg I mean he won't move over from my inside leg will the exercise still apply?


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## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I'll try the leg breathing exercise but when I say leg I mean he won't move over from my inside leg will the exercise still apply?


Yes. Any ignored cue from leg is a reason to do this exercise.


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## Rainaisabelle

I'll give it a try next time I ride  Roy has also had his second injection so hoping for the best


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## Rainaisabelle

I didn't get to ride today because I have to work tonight  but I did some on the lunge pole work with Roy and I am really proud of him. Unfortunately my camera didn't record -.- 

But we did some transitions up and down including the canter and definitely think that those injections are helping as he seems more freer behind I even saw the leg he was having trouble with track up more !!!


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## Rainaisabelle

Feeling quite down about all this car stuff :/


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## Rainaisabelle

So I lunged Roy today and wow he's moving way better atleast I think ! I know he shouldn't be going that slow but he worked pretty hard  we had some issues at the start when he tried to anticipate my moves and tried to canter when he wasn't asked for so we had a bit of a spat but I think he's really looking good!

https://youtu.be/y4lTCL9QrIA


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## NavigatorsMom

Some nice moments in that lunging video!


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## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> Some nice moments in that lunging video!


 Thanks, still room improvement but we are getting there.


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## Rainaisabelle

We might be moving Roy to a paddock round the corner from where we live, it only has 2 other horses and the owner doesn't ride and theirs not many riding places but its free agistment and theirs not many shifts at my work going around so I am trying to save money.


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## Rainaisabelle

So we are moving Roy, it's sad but he will be around the corner now. We have limited riding space but we will make do


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## Skyseternalangel

So why the move? How did you find the place? I saw on the 20 something thread that it's no charge agistment? How does that work...

What do you mean by limited riding space..?


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## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> So why the move? How did you find the place? I saw on the 20 something thread that it's no charge agistment? How does that work...
> 
> What do you mean by limited riding space..?


This is the basic gist of the situation, the hospital where I work kept hiring to many assistant nurses and now shifts have gotten quite low. This lady had as ad up on our local fb sites asking in exchange for feeding her 2 horses and goats free Agistment is offered. 

I do know the lady as she owns the local feed shop and lives right around the corner from me. So I feed her 2 horses and goats and Roy stays for free + I get a discount at her feed store. 

Limited riding space... It doesn't have an arena or round yard it's literally just a paddock it's also in our suburb. I'm going to ask a couple of people who have empty paddocks if I can ride in them possibly,


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## Skyseternalangel

Well I hope it works out!


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## Rainaisabelle

You and me both.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I hope this move is for the best and turns into a good situation for you. It's never easy when you have to have a change in plans because the situation changes. But if it works out it sounds like a pretty good deal if he can stay for free and you get a discount. I hope something works out for a good riding space for you.


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## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I hope this move is for the best and turns into a good situation for you. It's never easy when you have to have a change in plans because the situation changes. But if it works out it sounds like a pretty good deal if he can stay for free and you get a discount. I hope something works out for a good riding space for you.


My old trainer said she will come and help me with my riding still. I'm probably exaggerating and can still ride in my paddock but it's definitely not as big as the paddock I currently have. 

I don't really want to move but if my shifts become really really low I don't want to end up in debt. This situation is almost perfect I can walk to see Roy every day and feed him twice instead of once. Also saving money on Agistment and fuel only benefits him as I could get more lessons and buy him some new tack.


The lady doesn't want a buddy and more then likely I won't see her often as she works pretty much 7 days a week.


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## Rainaisabelle

Ride from today 

https://youtu.be/voZ8tTJ8tec 

Pay special attention to Roys movement I think it's way better!


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## Rainaisabelle

Going out to ride again and try harder. He feels different like there's more behind me


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## tinyliny

he seems to be more relaxed and invested in the movment. meaning, his ears are forward, and he's moving like he wants to go on his own volition, not because he's being asked to go. I love that feeling when I ask my horse to trot,and they answer with a cheery attitude, ears forward and energetically surging forward, and they look like they're going along with a "I think I'd like to go somewhere" feel to them. that's when you feel "with" your horse in a wonderful way. that's the beauty of getting out and hacking around; the hrose feels like he's going somewhere and his whole attitude engages.


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## Rainaisabelle

He feels different like there's something to work with and not like it's all laggy. We are still working on getting him to be more forward off my leg but that will come I suppose with more time and consistency


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## Skyseternalangel

Keep at it, I see a pretty happy horse!


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## NavigatorsMom

Looking good! His face is so cute with his ears all perked up, he looks happy to be working.


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## Rainaisabelle

Thanks everyone, I have another video from today's ride. I also did some ground work before hand on asking him to move over from pressure and he did okay not fantastic but he tried and when I got on it seemed much easier ! 


Things I would really like to work on are:
- getting him more engaged
- making him more responsive to leg cues 

I'm still getting a bit frustrated but I think he has come far from where we started and I honestly owe it all to you guys so cheers


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## DanteDressageNerd

You're both definitely improving, you should be pleased with yourselves. Roy looks quite happy and content and your position is becoming more stable/solid. All good things.

You've come a LONG way from where you started and I think sometimes when we're hard on ourselves or being overly critical or frustrated with our situation because we look at how far we have to go vs being mindful of how far we've come. No we might not be where we want to be but we've come so far and isn't the journey as, if not more important than the destination?

Everything will come together in time, just gotta persevere and keep going and working at it.


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## Rainaisabelle

My ride from today 

https://youtu.be/-ii8bKSVrIo
https://youtu.be/WpqWBIN_ioI


Sorry for the 2 parts but for some reason YouTube won't let me upload big videos.


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## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/PZ4kf8Mk5yU 
2/06/16 
https://youtu.be/NbUFkDUYzVE
Today's ride we worked on transitions/poles/shallow loops/serpentines and I got my partner to hold him on the lunge and I cantered him!


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## tinyliny

raina,

you've come a long way and are doing just great. the single best thing you could do right now would be to work on putting a bend in your elbow, relax your shoulders and keep your hands with thumbs up. just drill youself on this, over and over. it will affect everything.


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## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> raina,
> 
> you've come a long way and are doing just great. the single best thing you could do right now would be to work on putting a bend in your elbow, relax your shoulders and keep your hands with thumbs up. just drill youself on this, over and over. it will affect everything.



Yeah I realise they're not very good at the moment :/ I'll work on it


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## Rainaisabelle

Also have no idea why I do that with my hands..


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## Skyseternalangel

Don't be so hard on yourself, you have already made huge leaps of improvement now it's just a case of tweaking things here and there until you start to feel more with the horse


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## tinyliny

yes. main point being how very much you've improved, and that one simple thing can help a lot. please don't feel discouraged.


----------



## Tazzie

Every ride is more training, for you and your horse  rider position is one of the hardest to fix since we're usually so focused on our horse that we tend to forget about ourselves. Here is what my first trainer told me. Every time you pick up contact (after a walk or a stretchy circle) re evaluate your position. Are my elbows in, are my thumbs up, is there bend in my elbow, am I sitting up, are my heels down, are my toes pointing forward, etc. It's amazing how just doing that can fix things a bit. Also, if your boyfriend comes with you, see if he'll help you out! My husband would shout at me "Is your nose in line with her mane? No? THEN PUT IT THERE!" I'm not joking either :lol: show him what you need help on, for you. Even if he's only out there occasionally with you. Once or twice is better than no one there helping you :wink:


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## Rainaisabelle

I'm not discouraged or upset, this is like a riding lesson I wouldn't expect my instructor to not tell me when I'm doing something wrong or something that could improve my riding or make it more enjoyable for Roy. I'll remember elbows and hands next time I ride and see how I go 

Thank you Katie, it does happen like that as I am thinking of what I'm riding next lol.


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## Rainaisabelle

Not much going on, moving Roy to white rock on Wednesday so we are packing stuff up. I am slightly nervous as there's not many people to ride with in white rock although there are some horses. 

I'm working the next 3 nights so I'll probably only lunge Roy one of these days working on transitions.


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## Tazzie

You'll get there  Just takes a lot of practice and hard work! But I believe in you


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## Skyseternalangel

His topline is looking SOOOO much better! Great job!


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## Rainaisabelle

Yeah I just wish he would lose some of that pot belly... Now that we are moving I think it will get better as he will be getting more hay which is a better digestible fibre


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## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> You'll get there  Just takes a lot of practice and hard work! But I believe in you


Thank you  I'm glad to have friends on here I can count on! One day I'll come to America and meet you all lol or you guys will have to come and see Australia!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Yeah I just wish he would lose some of that pot belly... Now that we are moving I think it will get better as he will be getting more hay which is a better digestible fibre


Can you link me to what he is currently eating? Like grain wise


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## Rainaisabelle

Sure 

http://www.hygain.com.au/feeds/zero/ 

http://www.stanceequine.com.au/product-coolstance-copra

http://balancedequine.com.au/theshop/product/best-guess.html

So this is the gist of his feed 

1kg Lucerne chaff
1.5kg hygain zero (only feeding 1kg at the moment)
500gs dry weight Lupins
1/2 cup linseeds 
2 tablespoons best guess.. 
No hay as he's on 24/7 pasture with decent amount of grass and he won't eat hay if we feed it out. 

We are changing some of this for example hygain zero to copra as hygain is like $38 a bag and you need to be feeding 3kgs of it for a horse in light work ! 

All of this should really be split into 2 feeds and now that he will be around the corner it will be.


Our grasses are absolute crap they're high in oxalate and are not a good source of digestible fibre so a lot of horses have 'hay bellies'


----------



## Tazzie

Rainaisabelle said:


> Thank you  I'm glad to have friends on here I can count on! One day I'll come to America and meet you all lol or you guys will have to come and see Australia!


One day we (well, I lol) want to visit Australia!! One day :lol: you saw on Facebook where even my husband knows I want to go there (that prompt quiz I gave him :lol

I do support you coming here though!! It'd be a blast!! By then we would probably have our farm and a second horse  so could have a pony to ride here!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you  I'm glad to have friends on here I can count on! One day I'll come to America and meet you all lol or you guys will have to come and see Australia!
> 
> 
> 
> One day we (well, I lol) want to visit Australia!! One day
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you saw on Facebook where even my husband knows I want to go there (that prompt quiz I gave him
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> I do support you coming here though!! It'd be a blast!! By then we would probably have our farm and a second horse  so could have a pony to ride here!
Click to expand...

I was completely considering it anyway ! I want to see the wolves


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I'll respond to his diet tomorrow, but just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you or w/e just haven't had much time to be on


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> I'll respond to his diet tomorrow, but just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring you or w/e just haven't had much time to be on


I didn't think you were, just letting you know though his diet is still in the making. All of those feeds are completely safe for a laminitic that's why he's on them as I would like to prevent a full blown attack. He can't have grains/grain by products or anything with molasses in it or a lot of things..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So work has picked up slightly although I got some of these shifts by pure luck! But I'm happy I did. It means I get to buy some new gear! 




My old trainer (calling her trainer A from now on) is leaving to Sydney to pick up all her horse stuff including her big ute. She's going to be selling her current car and getting a float and she wants me to come with her to some small shows. She also wants me to go to a small dressage show in July and get me to do a trot test she said she will come and help me weekly to prepare me hence the new gear.

This is what I'm buying

- White Jodphurs
- White shirt
- Black boots
- Gaiters
- Black bridle
- New helmet 
- Summer rug w/ hood 
- White saddle pad


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Oooh, a show will be so much fun! Can't wait to hear all about it!  

Glad the shifts have picked up for you and that you're able to do some fun horse-gear shopping. That's my favorite kind to do!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> Oooh, a show will be so much fun! Can't wait to hear all about it!
> 
> Glad the shifts have picked up for you and that you're able to do some fun horse-gear shopping. That's my favorite kind to do!


I desperately need a new helmet.. It's way past its due date to be replaced and I've also fallen in it..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Leaving Tuesday morning and definitely feeling a bit nervous !


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Good luck on the shopping trip! Maybe look up reviews on products so you can know what the best is you can get for what you want to spend and know what's a good product or not, etc.

I did that with my helmet and fortunately I have a child sized head so I can buy a children's helmet which is a lot cheaper than an adult size helmet. I have a Charles Owen but there are a lot of good helmets out there.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Good luck on the shopping trip! Maybe look up reviews on products so you can know what the best is you can get for what you want to spend and know what's a good product or not, etc.
> 
> I did that with my helmet and fortunately I have a child sized head so I can buy a children's helmet which is a lot cheaper than an adult size helmet. I have a Charles Owen but there are a lot of good helmets out there.


For the helmet I think I'll just buy from a local saddlery it makes me a bit nervous to buy it online..


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here's a lunging video from yesterday I think Roy looks a lot better


https://youtu.be/hhfZWS3ScDA


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Big improvement in his trot, he's actually making an effort and moving for you so well done with that! Canter still needs work but it's good that you're getting him to pick it up, even if only for a few strides. It could be that he's not strong enough to hold it for more than a stride or two yet, or he might just be trying to get out of work. 

You could ask him to canter more forcefully if he doesn't respond right away. Don't hit him or anything but get after him, when Nav is lazy about going to canter I usually take a big step toward him while cuing him with voice and whip again and that tends to work, of course back off that pressure as soon as he reaponds correctly. If he departs with a buck I think that's fine for now, but keep driving him forward so he can't get out of work and break back to trot. 

You really are making so much progress with him, he seems like a different horse compared to the first few pages of this journal!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> Big improvement in his trot, he's actually making an effort and moving for you so well done with that! Canter still needs work but it's good that you're getting him to pick it up, even if only for a few strides. It could be that he's not strong enough to hold it for more than a stride or two yet, or he might just be trying to get out of work.
> 
> You could ask him to canter more forcefully if he doesn't respond right away. Don't hit him or anything but get after him, when Nav is lazy about going to canter I usually take a big step toward him while cuing him with voice and whip again and that tends to work, of course back off that pressure as soon as he reaponds correctly. If he departs with a buck I think that's fine for now, but keep driving him forward so he can't get out of work and break back to trot.
> 
> You really are making so much progress with him, he seems like a different horse compared to the first few pages of this journal!!


Yeah I agree I need to be more forceful when asking for him to canter, he was better after the video but a bit crabby. The horses were a bit off that day something was making them uncomfortable so it was hard to get him under control.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Well he looks stiff in the few canter strides he takes, so I'd focus more on working on continuing that happy trot (love his trot now, very fluid and love that he's forward yet relaxed) and then from there, build up to canter.

Great job!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We just left my Agistment, Roy was a bit hard to get on the float but he got there. It's been awhile since h floated so he wasn't entirely confident but we managed to get him on without any extreme problems.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We are here, Roys fretting a bit but I reckon he will settle down eventually, it's a nice paddock and Roy really likes her older horse credit


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Went and fed Roy today and he was still pacing and was quite sweaty. I did some ground work with him and some light lunging to make sure he was listening and he did okay but he was still a bit weird about everything.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Ride today was okay, I was expecting some bad behaviour but he was remarkable behaved. I like his trot in these videos it seems more consistent. I didn't really work on much today although I should have I just wanted to see how he would go.
Pt 1




Pt 2



MOD NOTE:

Link removed due to profanity in music. Sorry, but it's a PG forum .

Reposted on next page of thread


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I did try to remember my elbows but I forgot ! But I do think I did better with my hands


----------



## Tazzie

You'll get there! I struggle with hands and elbows sometimes, but I'm better than I was. You're already better than you were when you started this journal  and Roy just looks so darn happy!


----------



## Zexious

Lovely paddock!
So this is a new boarding situation?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yes it is  I moved him around the corner for free Agistment I just feed her horses and goats.


Thanks Katie ! He looks more comfortable in my opinion


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm going to start working out again.. This sounds so horrible but I feel completely fat in those videos o.o


----------



## Skyseternalangel

This looks so great, Raina!!

Does he feel different than before when you ride him? I want to hear about it!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> This looks so great, Raina!!
> 
> Does he feel different than before when you ride him? I want to hear about it!!


There is a difference, it feels more fluid and bigger but also he doesn't seem as reluctant to trot . One thing I really want to do is get him more forward and off my leg so im going to work on transitions when I ride next. 

He felt hot when I rode him which is fine he was hot but not in a dangerous uncontrollable way just in a if I squeeze him he moves forward.


----------



## Tazzie

That's the kind of hot I like  I like not having to nag for stuff.

He does look much more relaxed and fluid in the videos  and I don't think you do! But I also understand how you feel. I feel the same way, and starting back up on my exercising today :lol:


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> That's the kind of hot I like  I like not having to nag for stuff.
> 
> He does look much more relaxed and fluid in the videos  and I don't think you do! But I also understand how you feel. I feel the same way, and starting back up on my exercising today


He had his last injection on Monday and the chiro said to start putting him under a stress load and see how he does but she said for what I want which is just low level stuff then it shouldn't be a problem. 

He will get another injection in a year but I'm going to put him on some joint supplements to help. 

I want to start asking more like for him to be more active and giving me more bends, I am hoping when my friend gets back (Trainer N) she can help me.


----------



## tinyliny

Those are both really nice videos. You're really coming along in your ridingg skills. Roy looks very comfortable with you on top. He's more fluid in his back and less protective of himself because you are riding very sympathetically and maintaining your balance much much better. This allows him to move more freely 

I noticed your balance was so good that you followed him beautifully when he took a couple of little bobbles to the right or left. Now that your seat is becoming more balanced, the next step will be becoming more effective in your hands. Getting him more connected to the bit and putting a little bend in his body will make a big difference.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Thank you! Yes he did stumble a couple of times the ground at the new place is not level like at our old one which in some ways I suppose is a good thing. 

One thing I am struggling with is knowing when to be firm and when to leave him. When trainer N came and did a lesson with me she said that their was definitely improvement but he was still taking me on a ride and I needed to be a bit firmer when asking for something.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Raina does Aussie amazon.com exist? 

If so, this is fabulous stuff to add to your joint regime

http://www.amazon.com/Msm-Powder-Jo...liid=I3UALQMZRGINI4&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl

Cosequin is too but pricey


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Raina does Aussie amazon.com exist?
> 
> If so, this is fabulous stuff to add to your joint regime
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Msm-Powder-Jo...liid=I3UALQMZRGINI4&ref_=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl
> 
> Cosequin is too but pricey


I believe it does and I was looking into MSM ! Or turmeric.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here's a repost of pt 2 of my riding the other day it had some naughty words in the music so I needed to change it 
https://youtu.be/Az3Y9jprqcw


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Thank you! Yes he did stumble a couple of times the ground at the new place is not level like at our old one which in some ways I suppose is a good thing.
> 
> One thing I am struggling with is knowing when to be firm and when to leave him. When trainer N came and did a lesson with me she said that their was definitely improvement but he was still taking me on a ride and I needed to be a bit firmer when asking for something.


I think right now, you could definitely start asking for more. Just a little each time, like "hey you could be going a smidge more forward" or "hey you could try bending a little more through your body during this turn"

Don't go guns a blazing on him, you want him to not notice the small changes which will eventually lead to big ones. If you rush it, he may challenge you because he's been going like this since you've had him... and he may not be keen to working harder if you spring it on him like a mouse trap

Edited to add: do remember to break often, especially if you are doing something truly challenging like for Sky keeping through in a frame (through is our goal, frame is his idea) for a lap of forward trot. Obviously you can manage more than a lap of an exercise but don't get sucked into WE NEED TO DO THIS RIGHT else it'll turn into a longer ride than you want lol


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## Rainaisabelle

You're right, if I go in there and just expect it and get harsher when he doesn't listen it will just turn into a fight. I'm going to try everything at a walk and then try it in a trot


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## tinyliny

I agree with your trainer. Start asking and requiring a bit more . Make him buy into this by asking, getting a good result, then giving a (initially) huge release. The more you start him looking for the release, the more he,ll want to work for you because there's something in it for him. But, and it's a big one, he must earn it.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm going to give it a try when I ride next which could be today depending on when I wake up when I finish work !


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## Rainaisabelle

I rode today and I just wanted to tell you guys about it because it was different but also fantastic. I worked on transitions and today I found him really coming off my leg, unfortunately my phone didn't record but he felt powerful and was very forward. I got a bit nervous when he started to get forward but I turned it into a learning experience so I slowed down my seat and he followed so then when he slowed I pushed him forward. I got some flexion and a bit of bend to the right but he was struggling a bit to the left.

One thing I have to ask is if I corrected this right, he started to fall in slightly when he was forward so I shifted my weight to my outside seat bone and put inside leg on is this correct?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I rode today and I just wanted to tell you guys about it because it was different but also fantastic. I worked on transitions and today I found him really coming off my leg, unfortunately my phone didn't record but he felt powerful and was very forward. I got a bit nervous when he started to get forward but I turned it into a learning experience so I slowed down my seat and he followed so then when he slowed I pushed him forward. I got some flexion and a bit of bend to the right but he was struggling a bit to the left.
> 
> One thing I have to ask is if I corrected this right, he started to fall in slightly when he was forward so I shifted my weight to my outside seat bone and put inside leg on is this correct?


Yes to ask him to step his inside hind under and open his left shoulder into kind of a "leg yield" on the spot but that may not help lift that 'falling' shoulder.

You could also counter-flex and apply outside leg into your inside hand (which would be your new outside rein) and have him step a few steps right to pick that right shoulder up.

There are probably other exercises too, it's good to switch it up to keep them guessing and not anticipating.


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## Rainaisabelle

I wasn't really sure how to correct falling in, I know its inside leg but yeah


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## tinyliny

i've notice on your videos that you tend to not have as much weight down into your right leg as your left. you'll see the heel coming up on the right a bit, as if you are engaged in pushing him with it. not sure, but I think not only is your horse 'one sided', but you have a bit of that, too.

it's something to spend some time 'feeling for' as you ride.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> i've notice on your videos that you tend to not have as much weight down into your right leg as your left. you'll see the heel coming up on the right a bit, as if you are engaged in pushing him with it. not sure, but I think not only is your horse 'one sided', but you have a bit of that, too.
> 
> it's something to spend some time 'feeling for' as you ride.


I am definitely one sided and I know it but I am trying to be equal but to my left I find it hard. On the right I did the ligaments in my ankles so it sometimes starts to get painful when I ride even with a brace.


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## Tihannah

You guys are looking fantastic, Raina! It seems like every video shows improvement. You remind me so much of me and Tess. I think videoing your rides helps a lot, though I have the tendency to over critique myself! lol. Very nice though!


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## DanteDressageNerd

I really glad to hear both you and Roy are improving and our working together well as a team. Your riding has come a long way from the start of the journal to now. Major kudos!


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> I am definitely one sided and I know it but I am trying to be equal but to my left I find it hard. On the right I did the ligaments in my ankles so it sometimes starts to get painful when I ride even with a brace.



that explains it. and, it just keeps getting worse. I am far less flexible than I was ten years ago. my back cannot tolerate much 'jolting' at all, anymore. 
hey, but we do what we can, right?


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## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I really glad to hear both you and Roy are improving and our working together well as a team. Your riding has come a long way from the start of the journal to now. Major kudos!


Still a long way to go though !!






tinyliny said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am definitely one sided and I know it but I am trying to be equal but to my left I find it hard. On the right I did the ligaments in my ankles so it sometimes starts to get painful when I ride even with a brace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that explains it. and, it just keeps getting worse. I am far less flexible than I was ten years ago. my back cannot tolerate much 'jolting' at all, anymore.
> hey, but we do what we can, right?
Click to expand...

I'm going to try to put even 1kg more on my right it might help


----------



## Skyseternalangel

If you feel uneven, stand up for a second in your stirrups and get that weight down both sides.

Everyone is one sided, to a certain extent


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## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> If you feel uneven, stand up for a second in your stirrups and get that weight down both sides.
> 
> Everyone is one sided, to a certain extent


I don't feel uneven that's why it's hard to tell when I'm doing it but it is something I will keep an eye out for. 

I just lunged Roy today as I am so tired ! I photographed a friends western Inhand portion of a western show but then her horse didn't want to get back on the float so I didn't leave until 1pm.

I noticed Roy sweats a lot more in his flank and inbetween his back legs more now is that a good thing ?


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## Skyseternalangel

That means those muscles are working


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## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> That means those muscles are working


That makes me happy lol


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## Rainaisabelle

Some photos from today's ride, it was okay still struggling with some things I think most of it stems from inconsistent contact and my legs being all over the place one thing though is when I ask for flexion and inside leg he tries to turn


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## tinyliny

do you mean like evidenced in this photo? you are asking for flexion right, and he's turning right?











actually, he's flexing nicely, just too much. and, since you are still wanting him to GO forward, not right, YOU need to look and focus forward, and not allow yourself to be tilted inward by HIS wanting to go that way. don't let his deviations pull you into one, too.


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## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> do you mean like evidenced in this photo? you are asking for flexion right, and he's turning right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually, he's flexing nicely, just too much. and, since you are still wanting him to GO forward, not right, YOU need to look and focus forward, and not allow yourself to be tilted inward by HIS wanting to go that way. don't let his deviations pull you into one, too.


So should I keep my inside leg on but focus on forward ? When I flex I should only really be looking for his inside eye shouldn't I ?


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## tinyliny

yep!!!


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## Rainaisabelle

Tiny, what can you tell me about the outside rein? How can I use it more effectively ?


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## Rainaisabelle

More photos from today, I do like his hind leg reach in some of these !


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## Rainaisabelle

Rode again today, attempted a leg yield will post. I also did some work to the left trying to not let him pull me in but it was hard .

https://youtu.be/iPI1coqofHc


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## Rainaisabelle

So today I tried side reins on Roy, I'm not the biggest fan of side reins but I have used them before and I know of Roys old owner using them. I'm not one to crank a horses head in at all so they were never on tight and I'm only going to use them once or twice a week just as an extra push with riding. I know some people may not agree with it but I wouldn't do anything to hurt Roy.


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## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> Tiny, what can you tell me about the outside rein? How can I use it more effectively ?


Ask Dante She can explain better than me, or Sky.

I think if the outside as the "steady there" rein and the inside the one that asks in a quiet voice for softness and bend and obedience. But, I think that more well trained riders have a better explanation .


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## Rainaisabelle

If she looks on this thread hopefully she answers it


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Been really wet here so haven't been able to ride but I decided to just hang out and give him a big grooming and he was so cheeky !


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

The outside rein mostly control the outside shoulder and suppling. I see it as the main line of communication for half halting and controlling the balance. Both reins are part of the connection but I don't rely on the inside rein, inside rein I may use to help with bend but I primarily use my inside leg to connect the horse's body to my outside rein, so I can influence the balance better.

Over use of the inside rein is really common and easy to do. Think the more you pull on the inside rein the more the horse will fall out through the outside shoulder, so I'll sometimes pet the horse with the inside rein through turns or shoulder in, or I had my inside rein in a loop to demonstrate to my trainer I was turning off the outside aids and my shoulder in and circles were purely from the outside rein and I wasn't manipulating anything. But it also helps so the horse listens and relies on the outside rein and really listens vs assuming.

Outside rein is complicated and it takes a while to understand. You'll always learn more about it but bottom line it's the main rein you use to control the outside shoulder and influence the horse's balance. You can also use your weight to influence balance and rhythm.

But Roy's a good fellow, he looks really relaxed and happy.


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## Rainaisabelle

I think that's where we are struggling is me keeping a consistent contact on the outside rein so it's not steady. Obviously outside rein controls straightening to a degree so how does it work on a circle ?


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## DanteDressageNerd

Before going too much into outside rein. I'd focus on learning to carry a consistent connection. I don't say contact because the connection is the base. You can widen or shorten your reins to help but they should be sent forward first.

The circle and bend comes from the connection between the horses inside hind leg and your outside rein. So on a circle you're guiding the horses shoulder around the circle and not allowing it to fall out through the outside connection and half halts while you use your inside leg or weight to connect the horses inside leg to the outside rein. So inside leg on, take off inside leg, and outside rein half halt (like squeezing water from a sponge). Like on circles I leg yield or do shoulder fore/in to improve the bend and connection or if I school haunches in (I don't on a straight line because it tends to cause training issues down the road), so I tend to school it on a circle and maybe go down the long side once but I focus more on shoulder in because it connects the whole body better and helps more with bend and straightness. But leg yield and turn on the forehand are very helpful for connecting the inside leg to the outside rein and allowing the balance or understand of the inside leg and outside rein for horse and rider.


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## Rainaisabelle

I tried this exercise where I held on to the saddle pad with my outside rein still giving and taking / half halting but maintaining a steady connection


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## DanteDressageNerd

That's a good exercise. i sometimes do something similar on the babies to keep a really steady outside rein, so it acts like a side rein and gives them something clear to work into. When I do that I don't half halt but just let them find the connection. But that is a good exercise or thing to do when teaching the shoulder where to go. and you can also take the inside rein out wide to guide the shoulder or something like that too.


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## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> That's a good exercise. i sometimes do something similar on the babies to keep a really steady outside rein, so it acts like a side rein and gives them something clear to work into. When I do that I don't half halt but just let them find the connection. But that is a good exercise or thing to do when teaching the shoulder where to go. and you can also take the inside rein out wide to guide the shoulder or something like that too.


I think if we get the outside rein connection we will have an easier time


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## Tihannah

I've done the saddle pad thing too when I had a hard time keeping my hands steady and it helped. It definitely takes time to develop a good outside rein, but Cassie is great at explaining it. I also find that I somehow do better on one outside rein more than the other, but I think it has more to do with my body positioning and weight in the saddle. 

I feel like everything just seems to come in time. The feel and understanding. I'll go weeks feeling frustrated and like I'll never achieve something, and then when day, it'll just click and I'll get it. Lol. 

One thing that helps me is to find a lot of videos on youtube of riders demonstrating whatever I am trying to accomplish. I watch TONS of videos and then try to mentally replay these things when I ride. I find that it helps me as well.


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## Rainaisabelle

Yep that's how it feels, the frustration almost kills though lol!


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## Rainaisabelle

My ride today felt amazing !!! Here are the videos sorry that the camera doesn't get it all but it was great! My lower leg is still swinging so I may have to strap my ankle 

https://youtu.be/8-QgsAOdIlY 

https://youtu.be/d1AssSkCgQ4


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## Tazzie

He's looking great! First video said it was removed, so couldn't watch that.

What I think, personally, that will help with your lower leg is to do some stirrup-less riding work. I know, I know. We ALL cringed when riding instructors would proudly announce we were having a no-stirrup lesson. But they are VERY beneficial for making sure your posting trot is coming from your core/thighs and not from standing in your irons. I think this would help a lot to help you gain stability in your legs. Even if you warm up normally and then drop them. I'm not sure what you mean by strapping your ankle. Is it weak and you need a brace on it? Or actually tying it down? That kind of scares me if you're going to tie your legs down :/ I'd try going without stirrups for a bit. I bet it'll help more than you realize


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## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> He's looking great! First video said it was removed, so couldn't watch that.
> 
> What I think, personally, that will help with your lower leg is to do some stirrup-less riding work. I know, I know. We ALL cringed when riding instructors would proudly announce we were having a no-stirrup lesson. But they are VERY beneficial for making sure your posting trot is coming from your core/thighs and not from standing in your irons. I think this would help a lot to help you gain stability in your legs. Even if you warm up normally and then drop them. I'm not sure what you mean by strapping your ankle. Is it weak and you need a brace on it? Or actually tying it down? That kind of scares me if you're going to tie your legs down :/ I'd try going without stirrups for a bit. I bet it'll help more than you realize


Sorry here's number 1 
https://youtu.be/G5OCfPozoBQ 

Best to watch it on silent unless you like YouTube music. 

By bracing I mean strapping it, I did the ligaments in my ankle last year so one side is weaker then my other ankle. No stirrup work is a good idea actually


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## Tihannah

The first video said it was removed but you guys are looking great in the second video!


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## Rainaisabelle

I just reuploaded the 1st one so hopefully it works


----------



## Tazzie

Whew, ok. You scared me! I thought you were strapping your legs together or something :lol: I may have been a bit tired when I read that :lol:

I definitely say you give no stirrup riding a go. Should help the weak ankle too. Both of my ankles are shot from extremely bad sprains. They get better when I remember to keep weight in them, but I'm not using them to push me out of the saddle. I always had to post the trot without stirrups, and that is when you realized if you were posting correctly, or forcing yourself out of the saddle. I'd add in some ankle exercises for at home too. Help keep the flexibility but build it up. Stair raises are good for the ankles and the calves


----------



## Skyseternalangel

You look fabulous!

Don't strap your legs, ever. Doesn't fix the issue, only makes it look prettier. Pretty =/= effective.

You are curling your legs up, instead of stretching down.

Warm up stirrupless at the walk, focus on stretching those legs down. Stand up in your stirrups from time to time, and remember how that stretched leg felt.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> You look fabulous!
> 
> Don't strap your legs, ever. Doesn't fix the issue, only makes it look prettier. Pretty =/= effective.
> 
> You are curling your legs up, instead of stretching down.
> 
> Warm up stirrupless at the walk, focus on stretching those legs down. Stand up in your stirrups from time to time, and remember how that stretched leg felt.


I'm talking about an ankle brace so my ankle doesn't hurt so much when I ride, the pain is making me tense which is obviously lifting my legs up.

I think it was a good ride


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Lovely ride!! You guys are looking great! 

I agree about doing stirrupless work, the more you do it (not just "no stirrup November" haha!) the better your balance will become, legs should become more steady as well but as long as you aren't nagging (and it doesn't look like you are) then you are fine.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

NavigatorsMom said:


> Lovely ride!! You guys are looking great!
> 
> I agree about doing stirrupless work, the more you do it (not just "no stirrup November" haha!) the better your balance will become, legs should become more steady as well but as long as you aren't nagging (and it doesn't look like you are) then you are fine.


But no stirrup November  

Just kidding I will do my warm ups with no stirrups and see how I go


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So Roys back seems a bit sore so I have a feeling the saddle may need to be adjusted again, I massaged his back and butt and he seemed to relax quite a bit but I am thinking about getting my massage therapist to come and give him a massage and see what she can see.

He's not reluctant for me to ride or anything so I'm taking that as a good sign and he was fine on the lunge although he had a bit of attitude but nothing unusual.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Which part is sore specifically?


----------



## Zexious

What signs is he giving you that he's sore?
How is your saddle fit?
Have you considered having the chiro out?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Which part is sore specifically?


When I was using the curry comb near his wither he was throwing his head up and with the loins he was flinching. 





Zexious said:


> What signs is he giving you that he's sore?
> How is your saddle fit?
> Have you considered having the chiro out?


Saddle fit was checked maybe a month ago? I think? Chiro was more recently but I couldn't give you exact dates.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

My massage therapist checked him last time she trimmed which was a month ago and he was fine


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

I'm glad you guys are doing better. Roy looks a lot more relaxed and happy in the videos. You guys are coming along!

He looks really handsome out in the field but have you considered a thin line or a pad to help with the distribution of weight and absorb some of the impact? Is the saddle wool flocked?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I'm glad you guys are doing better. Roy looks a lot more relaxed and happy in the videos. You guys are coming along!
> 
> He looks really handsome out in the field but have you considered a thin line or a pad to help with the distribution of weight and absorb some of the impact? Is the saddle wool flocked?


We use a thinline pad but I might double check the pads on the inside haven't slipped over each other. I'm not sure ? It's a Peter horobin grande I think it's cair? Maybe?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Today's ride was just blergh ! It just wasn't what I wanted . Roy wasn't naughty I just felt disappointed in my self! We did some small jumps to try and get him a bit more engaged and also working his behind lol but I just felt off.

I warmed up without stirrups but my sitting trot was terrible and I'm amazed he didn't Buck me off ! I need to do more no stirrup work and I'm also going to get my partner to Lunge me while I'm on here to work on my seat ! I'm so disappointed in my self.


----------



## Tazzie

As I've said before, Dressage is a dance. You go forward and backward. If every ride is perfect, wow, amazing, couldn't have been better! Then you are not riding a horse. Everyone has an off day. It's a part of life. Roy was good, and you were off. Another day you'll be spot on and Roy will have an off day. The rough days will bring about a better ride :wink:

I am proud you did the no stirrup work!! It's TOUGH, but it'll help your seat SOO much! Having someone lunge you while you work on yourself will be invaluable I think! You can really learn a lot about how you ride when you don't have to worry about keeping a horse going forward. You've got this, I know you do!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I know :/ I just feel disappointed. Riding was supposed to make me feel better after my exam but I just felt like blah so it's really my fault it was a bad ride as I know what I'm like when I'm just not feeling it. It was still fun but it wasn't what I wanted


----------



## Tazzie

Those are the days I just hack around and not ask for anything strenuous or new. I have days where I just don't feel with it, but need that happiness of riding. So I hop on bareback in a halter and just plod around. Maybe try that today?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Good for you for giving it a go, it's not easy!


Just some advice

Don't warm up doing a sitting trot without stirrups. Warm up at the walk, do lots of figures... then put your stirrups back on your feet and trot... and then given them a walk break and when the horse is warmed up then try sitting trot sans stirrups

Their backs should be soft and ready, otherwise they will stiffen and it'll be extremely hard to sit anything.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tazzie said:


> Those are the days I just hack around and not ask for anything strenuous or new. I have days where I just don't feel with it, but need that happiness of riding. So I hop on bareback in a halter and just plod around. Maybe try that today?


Yeah I know better so I take responsibility for it being a crap ride 




Skyseternalangel said:


> Good for you for giving it a go, it's not easy!
> 
> 
> Just some advice
> 
> Don't warm up doing a sitting trot without stirrups. Warm up at the walk, do lots of figures... then put your stirrups back on your feet and trot... and then given them a walk break and when the horse is warmed up then try sitting trot sans stirrups
> 
> Their backs should be soft and ready, otherwise they will stiffen and it'll be extremely hard to sit anything.


Good advice I will keep it in mind. I also take responsibility for not setting him for it .. My bad.



Anyway on a good note, I met trainer Ns horse that she has on trial for a month and talk about solid! He's a 9yr old TB and man he was solid as his butt looked like it was from a QH. She is coming on Sunday to do some work with me which is awesome and then I am going to watch her ride her horse which is awesome. She's also sold her old car so she might be buying a float which means horsey adventures !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I wrote this up on my phone but it deleted it. I rode Roy today and it was brilliant, we did the jump grid and worked on leg yielding! He was so lovely.

We warmed up with no stirrups in just the walk doing figure of 8s, serpentines and circles he was really good going of the leg and moving over into my outside rein. We then moved into the trot just working on being forward doing half halts but also being responsive to leg. 

I also did the small grid which is a cross rail, cavaletti and trot pole which he was really good. Yesterday I struggled with letting him actually go over the jumps so today I trusted him and let him go over them and he was so good! He didn't run or get really hot like he was the good kind of hot that he moved off when I wanted him to. I also practiced turning without my reins but with my seat and legs and he was perfect!!!


----------



## Tazzie

Yay for a good ride!

And no worries, think we've all ridden at times when maybe it was better we didn't. It happens :lol: glad you bounced back and had such a good one though!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Worked him again tonight and one of the things that amazes me is that he doesn't try to run like he used to when he knew it was time to work he just waits patiently for me to put the halter on and then comes with me. 

I have a weird feeling my stirrups are causing me issues as I think they might be to short . Tonight was an okay ride we are working on half halting but keeping in some sort of frame but also on not falling in as much. He seems to do okay but struggles with keeping the forward sometimes.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

If he won't go forward, maybe it's time to ask him for a bit of canter. Your seat has improved considerably but it is your call


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I wouldn't know how to ask, my friend said its outside leg behind the girth and squeeze ?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> I wouldn't know how to ask, my friend said its outside leg behind the girth and squeeze ?


Is he trained to voice cues?

Sit the trot, slide outside leg back... 'scoop' with seat (usually I scoop more with outside seat bone like a slight lift as the momentum of the sitting trot propels that hip forward) while your inside leg stays at the girth and sit back as you ask.

Meanwhile, as you are scooping or as you slide leg back, say Can-ter or kiss at him.

If you need to carry a whip to show him you're serious, it may help. But I think he might like to canter

It helps to leg yield into the canter to get the right lead. But even now I wouldn't worry about leads... just go!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

***IMPORTANT***

Remember to sit back no matter what happens, and keep hands LOW.

Also shorten your reins like 1/2-1 inch or so, so that you have control and he has to have rein contact.

Upper arms stay pinned to your body. Lower arms (anything past the elbow to your fingertips) is free to move forward and back but upper arms stay still. This allows you to maintain a level of steadiness


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I don't see why I can't try it, I just need to remember to relax. I don't think Roy would ever bold unintentionally he just does what I tell him to so if I don't have control he's like wtf do you want me to do ?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much going on with Roy and I, we were going to have a lesson today but it's really wet so we decided to try again on Tuesday, trainer N is going to help me with my canter and she wants me to do a trot test at a dressage day sometime later in the next month or 2


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So even though I didn't get to have a lesson I decided to ride Roy and it was what I like to call an unorganized disaster. We had the forward check ! We had the moving off the leg check ! And we had the giraffe I usually call my beautiful bay TB check! 

I tried really hard to get him going properly and towards the end we got something and that's when I ended it but I tried inside leg, half halting, transitions and keeping a steady outside rein but he just wouldn't go supple he just refused. I even tried to check my position! I sat up so straight kept my arms to my side but it just wasn't happening today


----------



## Rainaisabelle

You know what I was thinking about though? 

How we all ride different horses and how they are literally all different in how they react and I actually think Roy is quite sensitive in a way. He prefers to have a conversation rather then being told to do something and I need to change how I ride. I need to sit up more and confident, keep my elbows bent and be more aware of my position. He seems better when I anchor my outside rein


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Remember you went from not doing anything with your reins to now asking a lot of him and giving lots of cues. He's probably confused and annoyed.

Anchoring the outside rein is fine. But.... here's what I want you to do. And it may seem wrong, but this is why I am telling you to do it.

Only stop with your outside rein. Meaning, sit down as you do to cue stop, legs on as you cue to stop forward, and close only your outside hand (whilst it is anchored). Wait until he stops. You can try this first "on the rail" aka where he can't run away from you, and then in the open.

Now if he stops crooked, he either wasn't on the outside aids, so you needed more inside leg hold your outside leg so he knows not to step over, and maybe a touch of inside rein just to remind him to keep straight. Or you did too much tension in the outside rein and he was confused and surprised.

You close your hand slowly, not in a jerk or sudden motion. You want the feeling of ink bleeding through paper how it starts out small and slowly grows bigger.

Now, the more you stop with only the outside rein, and remind him to stay straight.... the more he'll listen to the outside rein.

THEN once he has it down pat... you half-halt. So instead of fully stopping, you have him slow slow slow and then slowly release tension in the outside rein (still having it anchored and holding it firm as you would) and ADD LEG AND SEND HIM FORWARD.

It'll be weird, but in time it will work.

Don't spongey spongey the reins, don't use one and then the other... don't sharp halt... don't back up... he needs to first understand how the rein aids work. It's not just pull to turn or pull back anymore. The games have changed.

But spend a lot of time, a few days even, just practicing the halt. Don't do the half halt yet UNLESS he is beautifully halting on just the outside rein. And remember you yourself are halting (giving the cues) to halt but then when he slows you now must give the cues to go.. so seat gets in driving position, legs ON, and GO!


----------



## NavigatorsMom

I'm on mobile so I can't quote or like Sky's post but that is an excellent exercise you should try!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much going on with Roy today, he wanted loads of scratches today ! I think the flies are out in full force so it's time to start mesh rugging again. He seems to be very content currently which I like.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So today my friend trainer N came and gave me a lesson and it wasn't all productive but she made me sit the trot for like 20 minutes ! And my seat was much better and Roy was more relaxed. She said when I start to rise trot I lean forward moving my leg back, I need to sit on my bum lol

We pulled Roys mane although it's still a bit long but we left it for today and will come back to it on Sunday


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Ugh I know my legs are crap but I'm trying really hard to work on it lol


----------



## Tazzie

You'll get there! We all have things to work on!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Rainaisabelle said:


> Ugh I know my legs are crap but I'm trying really hard to work on it lol


Can you see the crazy amount of tension in your legs? It's likely due to insecurity at not having your stirrups and also his lack of snappiness to forward/yielding (though it's gotten SO much better)

Let them hang... carry a whip. If he doesn't listen to a soft squeeze then he gets a tap or a swat depending on his level of zoning... of it.

But you guys are getting there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Would someone be able to give you a lunging lesson once in a while on him, so you can just focus on your position and your riding, so you don't have to worry about Roy? It might help you with going stirrup less, especially if someone is there to help and may help you so you can relax your thigh and hips, so you can sink into sitting trot and find that balance. And no worry about Roy being forward or steering, just you and your position and staying with him.

Roy could also be lunged in side reins while you do this, so it's more comfortable for him with his back up. Sit some stirrupless and once in a while try to post a few steps stirrup less, allowing the motion of his trot to get your bum out of the saddle vs your legs. 

You're getting there. You've made a lot of progress and it's a joy to see how far you both are coming together. You guys make a good team!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Skyseternalangel said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ugh I know my legs are crap but I'm trying really hard to work on it lol
> 
> 
> 
> Can you see the crazy amount of tension in your legs? It's likely due to insecurity at not having your stirrups and also his lack of snappiness to forward/yielding (though it's gotten SO much better)
> 
> Let them hang... carry a whip. If he doesn't listen to a soft squeeze then he gets a tap or a swat depending on his level of zoning... of it.
> 
> But you guys are getting there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

I actually feel more comfortable without stirrups then I do with them. It's a terribly bad habit my legs especially bringing them back to ask him to do something when I shouldn't.






DanteDressageNerd said:


> Would someone be able to give you a lunging lesson once in a while on him, so you can just focus on your position and your riding, so you don't have to worry about Roy? It might help you with going stirrup less, especially if someone is there to help and may help you so you can relax your thigh and hips, so you can sink into sitting trot and find that balance. And no worry about Roy being forward or steering, just you and your position and staying with him.
> 
> Roy could also be lunged in side reins while you do this, so it's more comfortable for him with his back up. Sit some stirrupless and once in a while try to post a few steps stirrup less, allowing the motion of his trot to get your bum out of the saddle vs your legs.
> 
> You're getting there. You've made a lot of progress and it's a joy to see how far you both are coming together. You guys make a good team!


We did do some on the lunge work with my trainer but I didn't get any photos of that


----------



## tinyliny

good for you for pushing your boundaries! Roy looks healthy and happy.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I've been working so I have not been able to ride. I went down today though as I obviously do everyday and he seemed a bit sore. I discovered he'd probably either spooked of was being silly and ran into on of my jump stands as I found the supports had all come apart :facepalm: no serious damage done but I took all the jump stuff out of the paddock as to avoid another incident. 


Other then that not much is going on :/ on Friday he's getting this equivibe treatment which is a new thing in my area that I thought I might give a go. He's also sharing a round bale with the owners horses which is awesome ! 

I have to go in there tomorrow after I have slept to take up all the old hay and clean out the stables which is cool gives me something to do during the day.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy loved his equivibe treatment ! Took him a bit to get used to it as it is a completely different feeling ! But he loved it! Almost fell asleep and he loved i When she used the hand held unit on his bum,shoulders and neck.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/VW2tLzM-f3E


----------



## NavigatorsMom

He's looking so good!


----------



## Tihannah

You guys are showing constant improvement and look great! 

Also, not sure if you know this, but when you post a link to a YouTube video, if you remove the "s" in "https://", the video will embed here on the page.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Haven't updated in a couple of days.. Mostly because the people who usually comment here I have on FB so they see it.. 
Trimmer came Roy had an abscess in the making in a soft spot right on the blood vessel. The last time I rode was the 7th it was an okay ride I didn't really focus on anything specific just getting more comfortable with half halts and driving him forward etc 

https://youtu.be/I9figx7AybU


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Suggestion: video be watched in silence unless you like weird YouTube music


----------



## Tazzie

Poor Roy! Hope he heals up fast!

And he looks great! Looks like he liked the ground poles!!


----------



## NavigatorsMom

He does look like he's enjoying the ground poles, and he's moving nicely for you too


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I haven't posted in a bit. Roy and I are struggling a bit lately just really stuck in a rut. I have potentially found an instructor to hopefully get occasional lessons off of but I am waiting to hear back.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

I hope you hear back from that instructor soon and they have some good news for you and Roy to get some lessons.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I rode Roy today as it finally dried slightly although it's still wet. Roy was really good it wasn't one of those omg fantastic rides it was just good.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Eh not much going on here. My friend and I are taking our horses to the local equestrian association for the weekend to ride in the dressage arena and use the jumping arena.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Rode Roy today in a halter ! First time ! It was just a spur of the moment thing lol I don't give Roy enough credit he's a true gentle giant


----------



## NavigatorsMom

So awesome!! I don't know if I could trust Nav to ride well in a halter.  Looks like you two had a nice ride though.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So here are some photos of our ride today! Was so fun! Horses are besties and love each other


----------



## tinyliny

you know how I am sometimes nagging you about not letting your hands go too low? these photos will show you something:

1. in this photo, your hand/arm position is perfet for how he is wanting to stretch out and go long and low. this is a good photo as it shows him moving with impulsion and a bit of lift in his back, and you supporting all that with you body and arm position quite well.








2. he has raised his head, but your arm position has stayed in the lower angle. if you were to follow him, you could either match his new position, or, while staying connected, ask him to lower it again.











I just thought those two photos showed quite well the very small difference. you are getting so good that you can now see and feel these things.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Those photos of your two riding together on your horses is adorable! I'm glad you have a riding partner to work with. Is this your new boarding place?

Also think of rotating your thumbs up and a slightly shorter rein, so Roy has something to work into.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> you know how I am sometimes nagging you about not letting your hands go too low? these photos will show you something:
> 
> 1. in this photo, your hand/arm position is perfet for how he is wanting to stretch out and go long and low. this is a good photo as it shows him moving with impulsion and a bit of lift in his back, and you supporting all that with you body and arm position quite well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. he has raised his head, but your arm position has stayed in the lower angle. if you were to follow him, you could either match his new position, or, while staying connected, ask him to lower it again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just thought those two photos showed quite well the very small difference. you are getting so good that you can now see and feel these things.


So my hands are to low ?






DanteDressageNerd said:


> Those photos of your two riding together on your horses is adorable! I'm glad you have a riding partner to work with. Is this your new boarding place?
> 
> Also think of rotating your thumbs up and a slightly shorter rein, so Roy has something to work into.


No I wish !!! This place has a huge waiting list but we are members so we floated our horses for the weekend.

Always the thumbs lol! I agree, but he was extremely tense during this ride and A shorter rein was making him giraffe, I did pick the rein up more after these photos but I really wanted him to relax


----------



## tinyliny

your hands are perfet in the first photo, too low in the second. in the first, you are following him down, and there's a good line from elbow to bit, yet you are not falling forward, in part because he is lifting his back which helps you stay nice and balanced over him, upright and looking good.

the second photo he has raised his head, hollowed out a little, and because your elbows are stiff, you maintain that forward /downward position, as if you are pushing a wheel barrow, and then your balance tips forward just a tiney bit, into the "hole' that he creates by hollowing out his back.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Took the horses to the creek for a swim well it's not very deep so they couldn't swim but it was fun. Now we are on our way home


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I rode the last 2 days which was good, I've been working on lots of relaxing and laterals even if they're messy it seems to get Roy more relaxed and compliant. He started doing a stretchy trot which is awesome! Just need to get him moving more forward

Tonight I cantered Roy on the lunge it was fun, I even did the aeroplane (arms out ) which was awesome but I'm struggling to pick the reins up and balance is that weird ?


----------



## Tazzie

I've already told you what I thought about :wink: but he's looking great!


----------



## NavigatorsMom

He looks so good in these pictures! 

About the cantering, do you mean you feel like you're balanced when you have your arms out but lose balance when you take up the reins?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yes balanced with arms out but unbalanced when picking up reins,
Which I think is strange


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Wow! Roy is looking really good! You'll figure out the balance as you practice and gain the condition. It takes time, I have faith you'll figure it out.


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> Yes balanced with arms out but unbalanced when picking up reins,
> Which I think is strange



probably just that you start looking down, collapse a bit in the torso, and start thinking about 'getting it all together' instead of just 'feeling' the rythm with abandon.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here are some videos of me cantering. Obviously in the short video I have a way better seat but I am trying to make this experience fun and not completely perfect as it won't be. In the first one I am actually holding the reins very very lightly as to not jab him by accident!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So on August 26th Roy and I will be attending our first Inhand show! I know we probably won't come back with anything but it's definitely exciting


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Good luck at the in hand show! I hope it goes well for you and Roy.


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> So on August 26th Roy and I will be attending our first Inhand show! I know we probably won't come back with anything but it's definitely exciting



maybe not, but if they could see what Roy looked like when you started to own and ride him, and how he looks now, you'd get a HUGE ribbon!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So to those of you who follow my thread this should be a very exciting and proud moment haha!

Today I took a leap of faith and cantered Roy off the lunge by myself around my paddock! Still lots to work on like the transition from trot to canter is still a bit of a challenge but I did it !!


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Way to go, I knew you could do it!!  Did you get a video of it?


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Way to go Raina!!!!!!!!! Glad my nagging paid off  As in you tried it out! I knew you were ready, but it's a mental block and you overcame it!!! <3


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So Roy got his fetlocks clipped and bridle path done and his tail chopped ha


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy tried out acupuncture today and absolutely loved it! I've been sick with some kind of bug the last 2 days and am still pretty ill with it but I really wanted this before the show :/ although I felt completely run down afterwards even though all I had to do was stand there


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So today we floated Roy to our local equestrian place. We had some fun although I almost crapped myself when he got a bit to happy cantering on straight and it turned into a mini gallop! I can tell you I wasn't ready for that. I'm still trying to sort of figure out how to completely sit it? I can do it on a circle but I struggle with the straights.


----------



## Tihannah

It is really awesome to see how far you and Roy have come! I feel like we share such a similar journey trying to learn and teach our horses as we go. I love these journals and being able to look back at the progression we have made.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> It is really awesome to see how far you and Roy have come! I feel like we share such a similar journey trying to learn and teach our horses as we go. I love these journals and being able to look back at the progression we have made.


I feel completely the same way! If you have any tips for sitting the canter let me know lol!


----------



## Tihannah

Rainaisabelle said:


> I feel completely the same way! If you have any tips for sitting the canter let me know lol!


Lol, I'm still trying to get good at it myself! But I've just been taught to sit deep and keep my legs long and just relax my seat so that it moves with the horse. Some days it goes smooth and other days not so much!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> Lol, I'm still trying to get good at it myself! But I've just been taught to sit deep and keep my legs long and just relax my seat so that it moves with the horse. Some days it goes smooth and other days not so much!


I think the relaxing is where I struggle! He tries really hard for me though but I'm just a sack of potatoes sometimes. 

I'm so keen for the show this weekend it's going to be fabulous


----------



## tinyliny

Rainaisabelle said:


> I feel completely the same way! If you have any tips for sitting the canter let me know lol!



I am not good at canter, either, especially on a big horse like Roy. in any case, this tip was given by someone on this forum, I think, and I tried it, and have since shared it with a lot of folks who said it really helped:

learn to feel the 'down' beat of your hrose's canter. the step where he is reaching furhter forward with his leading front leg will have him positioned with the most downward cant to his body. it's also a bit of a heavier beat, as he will have a lot of weight down into the leading leg, right before all legs lift off the ground for a sec as he reaches under with the starting leg (the outide hind) to begin the cycle of steps that make up the canter

try mentally to get your hips and pubic bone to be sinched with that downward beat. so you have the steps, One, two, down .. . one, two , down . . one, two , down . . . and on each down, really think about your pubic bone advancing downward with the horse. also, think of your feet as ALSO going down toward the ground, Down, Down, Down. 

the horse will carry you back up, but if you can think about bringing yourself as much down as possible with this downward movment , your motion will not fall behind the horse's.
I can't explain it, but really get in synch mentall with that downward stroke, and really think of your body GOING down, not just falling, bugt GOING down, too. but only that one beat. otherwise, be passive and allow the horse to carry your body back up where you will almost instantly be looking for rthe down again.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Yeah he's got a nice canter it's just a big stride and trying to sit it can be a struggle !


----------



## Tihannah

Good luck at the show! Can't wait to here about it!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy was just an absolute joy to ride today! I am just so happy with how it went. I didn't get everything I wanted but he was brilliant and it felt brilliant ! I feel like cantering is giving me a better seat and making me feel stronger. I'm still struggling to sort of get that nice head down sort of frame? He has such a lovely forward trot I think it's time to move on. I'm trying to really master half halts to rebalance and really make him push off any tips? 

We also did his mane for the show so we could plait it up for the show ! I'm only getting a few strides in the canter but for now I think that's a good thing.


I also got this beautiful stretchy sort of trot out of him! 
https://youtu.be/sbV333rgUto


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy and I had our first show ! Her got a first and a reserve champ we competed in the Inhand in Thoroughbred gelding and Champion Thoroughbred I'll post more photos when I have them


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I am so super duper proud of him!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So Roy is extremely lame constant head bobbing and limping coming from right front. Had the trimmer out to see if she could find an abscess she said his soles were quite tender and soft which is concerning but no digital pulse. He's been Pulticed in case of an abscess and if he doesn't get any better then I'll be calling a vet


----------



## knightrider

Oh no! After your fantastic show. So sorry. Hope it clears up soon.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So, today has been a very emotional and stressful day. What I want to say before I start is please understand that this is hard for me and I am quite upset about this. 

Roy has been lame since Friday last week although it wasn't noticeable until Monday. I got the vet out today and got some less then nice news. Roys feet are extremely soft and tender and very very flat. Everytime he puts his foot down his sole hits the ground and it's made him quite sore. My trimmer has done the best she could have with the feet he had and we had more then one trimmer say that. 

We were given some options X-Ray's, nerve blocks and shoes. I would love X-Ray's and nerve blocks but it is very expensive to get done. At first I had decided to retire him and thought all hope was literally lost but we have decided to try shoes and see how he goes with those. I am a strong believer in barefoot but if this will make him more comfortable and sound then I am willing to try. 


Before making judgement please understand I am making my decisions based on what I know about Roy and his previous medical history. Roy has had a previous laminitic episode and has possibly had pedal bone rotation. 

We are giving this one last ditch effort please understand I am quite emotional as Roys my best friend and my baby.


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

So sorry for such distressing news. I hope the shoes help. 

Nerve block?..to disguise pain so you can keep working him. That doesn't sound like a good long term option.

Wishing you the best :hug:


----------



## Change

@rainsabelle - my mare had flat, thin, low soles on both front feet after years of being barefoot in pasture. Even the slightest bit or stone or gravel and she'd immediately get bruised and lame. My vet x-rayed and they shows some slight downward tipping of her coffin bone and recommended corrective, padded shoeing. I showed the x-rays to my farrier, who put her in "padded, orthopedic sneakers" for several months. Basically, it's a solid pad that fits under the regular shoe and then a polymer gel is pumped in to fill the area between the sole and the pad. The gel solidifies into a soft, cushiony rubber stuff, keeping crud out, supporting the sole and helping it to lift, while the shoes allow the hoof wall to grow without splits or cracks.

My gal will probably wear front shoes forever, just because she tends to split and crack, but her soles are now up where they belong and had a good thickness to them. And she no longer insists on veering around gravel driveways!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Change said:


> @rainsabelle - my mare had flat, thin, low soles on both front feet after years of being barefoot in pasture. Even the slightest bit or stone or gravel and she'd immediately get bruised and lame. My vet x-rayed and they shows some slight downward tipping of her coffin bone and recommended corrective, padded shoeing. I showed the x-rays to my farrier, who put her in "padded, orthopedic sneakers" for several months. Basically, it's a solid pad that fits under the regular shoe and then a polymer gel is pumped in to fill the area between the sole and the pad. The gel solidifies into a soft, cushiony rubber stuff, keeping crud out, supporting the sole and helping it to lift, while the shoes allow the hoof wall to grow without splits or cracks.
> 
> My gal will probably wear front shoes forever, just because she tends to split and crack, but her soles are now up where they belong and had a good thickness to them. And she no longer insists on veering around gravel driveways!


Thank you for the story  at this point we are recommended normal shoes or possible wedges


----------



## Rainaisabelle

ShirtHotTeez said:


> So sorry for such distressing news. I hope the shoes help.
> 
> Nerve block?..to disguise pain so you can keep working him. That doesn't sound like a good long term option.
> 
> Wishing you the best :hug:


The nerve block would only be temporary it's to see where the lameness is but we are 95% sure it's in the foot


----------



## evilamc

You should take some pics of his hooves and post in the hoof section, the experts there may have some great advice too! What is his diet like? Hope everything works out in the end  with hooves sometimes you need to look at more then just th feet though...diet and environment play a big part too.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

evilamc said:


> You should take some pics of his hooves and post in the hoof section, the experts there may have some great advice too! What is his diet like? Hope everything works out in the end  with hooves sometimes you need to look at more then just th feet though...diet and environment play a big part too.


Diet is low sugar/starch he's basically on no pasture so he's supplemented with hay that is again low sugar/starch. I've already posted pictures in the hoof section I think you could still find the thread it's called flat footed and I did post in here a couple of months ago.



Note: This isn't something that's just happened we have been trying to keep him barefoot for almost 2 years and he's not coping, we changed diets, tried boots etc he's not coming good, shoes were a last resort for me but I would rather try them and get him sound then leave it.


----------



## evilamc

What kind of grain? He could be missing some nutrients. I'll try and find your old thread in the hoof section. Poor guy


----------



## Rainaisabelle

evilamc said:


> What kind of grain? He could be missing some nutrients. I'll try and find your old thread in the hoof section. Poor guy


We are in Australia so we feed different things 
Copra
Lucerne chaff
Lupins 
Maxisoy 

All weighed before each feed and Rhodes hay


----------



## evilamc

Any vitamin mineral supplement? Also a biotin supplement can help with growth. I found the old thread, but its a year old, maybe take updated pictures? 



> Maxisoy+ should be introduced into your horses diet gradually. We recommend feeding Maxisoy+ in conjunction with a good quality vitamin and mineral supplement as well as hay/pasture.


Soy isn't always great for horses either, maybe you can find an alternative to that and something that will balance out his diet better?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

evilamc said:


> Any vitamin mineral supplement? Also a biotin supplement can help with growth. I found the old thread, but its a year old, maybe take updated pictures?
> 
> 
> 
> Soy isn't always great for horses either, maybe you can find an alternative to that and something that will balance out his diet better?


Maxi soy is very new to his diet, he's always done really well on soy based products and maxisoy was recommended by a nutritionist when she was up giving a conference. We don't feed vit and min because the diet is balanced out currently but we will be adding biotin. I'd have to look back in this thread but their should be fairly recent or semi recent pictures of his feet.


----------



## evilamc

IMO I don't believe his diet is very balanced. Do you KNOW how much vitamin A, C, E...Lysine and so forth hes getting? Unless you're actually testing ALL hay sources and what not theres no way to know for sure its balanced.

"Maxisoy+ has no added vitamins or minerals so if being fed on its own it is recommended that a complete mineral supplement be included."


For example, here is the sup I feed
https://horsetech.com/high-point-grass

Can you honestly say what you're feeding has all those nutrients packed in there? Without testing it?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

evilamc said:


> IMO I don't believe his diet is very balanced. Do you KNOW how much vitamin A, C, E...Lysine and so forth hes getting? Unless you're actually testing ALL hay sources and what not theres no way to know for sure its balanced.
> 
> "Maxisoy+ has no added vitamins or minerals so if being fed on its own it is recommended that a complete mineral supplement be included."
> 
> 
> For example, here is the sup I feed
> https://horsetech.com/high-point-grass
> 
> Can you honestly say what you're feeding has all those nutrients packed in there? Without testing it?



No I can't honestly say that to you, we balanced it on FeedxL but whether that is completely reliable that's a different story but Roy gets the best care available to him and we already spoke to the vet about his feed. This is not changing my decision to put shoes we will be adding biotin etc to his feed.


----------



## PoptartShop

So sorry to hear this about Roy. While barefoot is a great thing, not every single horse can benefit from it/it doesn't always work out. And that's okay. I really hope once you get shoes put on him, it helps him out and he will be in less pain. Please keep us updated on his progress.


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

What made you decide to feed copra? It is used widely here in NZ for dairy cows, but even now is being questioned as to its real value. I have never heard of it used for horses (but I also haven't been places where I might see that). Perhaps they digest it better than cows? With cows copra adds its distinct smell to the dung which is also quite grainy from undigested copra. Just interested...


----------



## Rainaisabelle

ShirtHotTeez said:


> What made you decide to feed copra? It is used widely here in NZ for dairy cows, but even now is being questioned as to its real value. I have never heard of it used for horses (but I also haven't been places where I might see that). Perhaps they digest it better than cows? With cows copra adds its distinct smell to the dung which is also quite grainy from undigested copra. Just interested...



Copra is quite widely used in my area and it's low in NSC. Most laminitic friendly feeds are really expensive and don't last long as you're going through practically 3kg a day but they're mostly a complete feed which is great but we wanted extra added fat and protein


----------



## Tihannah

Sorry to hear about Roy as well, but I just have the need to say this... This forum is here for help, advice, or suggestions, but in the end you have to do what you feel is right for YOUR horse. Never feel like you have to apologize or plead for understanding in decisions you make for his well being. I would like to think that those of us that follow your journal are here to help and cheer you guys on and no one is going to think you're a terrible person because you've decided to shod your horse. I got a little kickback for wanting to use a bit that's not "dressage legal" on my horse. Don't care one bit. She goes well in it and has been making great progress, so until I see the need, we will continue using it. We all get conflicting opinions on what we should or shouldn't do, but in the end, it's your decision to make and deal with and everyone knows you just want to do what is best for him.

So with that said, we are all rooting for you and Roy and I really hope the shoes help him!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Update: The vet called me back and it's not good news. Without X-Ray's he can't give me 100% certainty but he believes that even if we do get Roy sound it will be 20-50% and even then he will have intermittent lameness periods. The reason we aren't song. X-Ray's is because it's about $600 and I just can't justify that expense when we know that for the last 2 years he's been a bit funny because we could never figure out why.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I've had some trouble writing this post because this situation is very upsetting and distressing for me. I've written this because I wanted to avoid all the whys. 

The last couple of days Roy has been quite lame and we found out that due to some medical issues he will need to be retired as a companion or an extremely light riding horse. 

We are currently in the process of finding Roy a nice place to retire as this is quite a distressing and upsetting situation and after discussion with two vets Roy will not be able to be a competition horse and I feel strongly about retiring him to a nice home where he can be loved on and groomed for the rest of his remaining life.



I have posted this on Facey for those that know me on Facey, because this thread is about Roy and I , I'd like to extend to the next part of my journey which is searching for a new horse


----------



## Golden Horse

So sad to read this, it is so hard when our friends are hurting and can no longer go on the journey that we have chosen. Hope you can find him a great retirement home


----------



## JCnGrace

I'm so sorry Raina. I'm sure Roy will enjoy retirement and I wish you the best of luck in your search for a new horse.


----------



## NavigatorsMom

So sorry to hear it  But like I've said, I think you're making the mature and most caring choice for him - a mark of a true horsewoman! Still, can't imagine what you're going through. You know I'm here whenever you need to talk!


----------



## Tihannah

Hope you are able to find a good retirement home. I know this will be hard for you, but I'm sure it will all work out in the end!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

After another deliberation... I am horrible at making decisions I really shouldn't really be allowed lol

Roy got his first set of shoes on today and the farrier had something to say that has made me rethink all of this and look he could be wrong but if there is any chance he is right then I'm going to take it. 

He said to me ' I've trimmed a few horses with pedal bone problems and they don't like shoes because when nailing the shoe on and tightening them it hurts and your horse didn't flinch or move a muscle, I think your horses only problem is that he has thin soles.' Roy was also not lame today he is way happier with the shoes on and I'm really happy about it. Therefore Roy will be staying on with me for atleast 2 months to see how he goes


----------



## tinyliny

shoeing a horse isn't a failure. modern breeding has made many horses unable to be comfortable barefoot.


----------



## Change

Sounds just like my mare and her front feet. She needed support for the sole to lift at first, and will be in shoes on the front forever.


----------



## JCnGrace

My all time favorite horse had to be shod all the way around during his riding career because he had tender feet. Just leading him across a gravel driveway without shoes on would make him tiptoe. Having to wear shoes didn't make him any less awesome and I'm sure Roy won't be either.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Glad this farrier has hope. 

Sorry to be harsh, but bad trims will lead to issues like thin soles. Your previous farrier did not do a good job from the photos I saw, even directly after the trim. Glad you have a different one now.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Putting shoes on him to me isn't a failure but the dream of him being barefoot was a nice one. If he's more comfortable with shoes then that's fine as long as he's happy


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

That's fabulous to hear shoes have made such a big difference. I really hope that's the solution, it's a simple one. I really hope that's it.

A lot of horses can't be barefoot. I used to keep Dante barefoot during winter, front shoes during fall and spring and all 4 shoes during summer because of how bad the flies were. He has great feet but even he goes unsound during summer if his fronts are barefoot, stomping at the flies chews up his hoof. I don't think it's "bad" to shoe them if that's what they need. Whatever helps.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I'm very happy we made the decision to get shoes as he's much more comfortable, he was cantering around the paddock yesterday he's definitely happy


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy and I are going to a show on Saturday it's not very big and it's actually mostly western but they have some English classes so should be fun


----------



## PoptartShop

Aww I hope you have a good time at the show!  It's all about having fun!


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Can't wait to hear about the show! It will be a fun time


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Had a riding lesson at my friends place today who owns a riding school, it was pretty good we did a lot. We didn't canter but we did some other work and my friend hopped on and said she really likes Roy under saddle. That photo is from start of lesson to end of lesson. Tomorrow is the show! I'm excited and nervous


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So we got third in our English class but I completely stuffed it because I got confused.. And didn't completely understand the pattern.. And my jacket fell down mid run But that's okay live and learn and I am still grateful for the experience. The western we did way better we didn't place but the judge said Roy did better then expected so !


----------



## Tihannah

You guys look awesome! Congrats on the show and so glad to hear he's doing better with the shoes!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

I love the first pictures. You two look adorable together!

You can tell he loves you, you're his person. He trusts you. You guys look really sharp! Glad you had a good experience


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> You guys look awesome! Congrats on the show and so glad to hear he's doing better with the shoes!





DanteDressageNerd said:


> I love the first pictures. You two look adorable together!
> 
> You can tell he loves you, you're his person. He trusts you. You guys look really sharp! Glad you had a good experience



Thank you guys! Big compliments. Roy is beautiful and lovey horse but he is quite nervous just something to work on though.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Thought I would tell you guys what happened in my lesson the other day considering I did not go into very much detail! It was a really good lesson. So it started with Roy who can get a bit nervous in new places not letting me mount, he walks around the mounting block. My instructor came an helped by showing me to wait until he stops and then praising him for when he stands still. After that because he was quite looky we worked on halting and doing a rein back until he was more relaxed and comfortable.

For the warm up we did laps in the walk and trot in both directions just letting him getting a feel for the arena and then we started asking for 20 meter circles with correct bend through his body and practicing the correct release when he does what he's asked. Now my instructor got on about half way through and rode him, afterwards she gave me a list of pros and cons.

1. Very willing
2. Clever
3. Nice walk
4. Powers from behind

Cons
1. Can be dull to cues at times
2. Not a fan of his trot
3. Is a bit nervous/unsure

Afterwards we worked on moving the hind/front end over. I am really trying to work on a lot of positive reinforcement such as pats and 'good boys' so he feels a bit more confident. She also said he knows what I want but I need to really insist sometimes that he listens to me. I rode him again today and did practically the same thing but I added canter into my warm up.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Good I'm glad you've found what sounds like a good instructor. I hope this instructor will be able to help you and Roy to gain confidence and self assurance. 

I think there are a lot of good things about Roy that will come out more and more as you both gain confidence and reassurance. Glad you had a good lesson.


----------



## Zexious

Keep up the good work! <3


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy has been doing this beautiful stretchy trot on the lunge it is so beautiful! Nose almost touching the ground and so lovely and forward ! I'm so sad I didn't get a video but it was fantastic. He must be feeling better! 


One thing that's changed is Roy and floats he seems extremely reluctant to get on and then tries to rush off the float and it's getting dangerous.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Good I'm glad you've found what sounds like a good instructor. I hope this instructor will be able to help you and Roy to gain confidence and self assurance.
> 
> I think there are a lot of good things about Roy that will come out more and more as you both gain confidence and reassurance. Glad you had a good lesson.


I hope so to honestly


----------



## PoptartShop

Really happy to hear Roy is doing well.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tomorrow I have another lesson! Looking forward to it


----------



## Tazzie

I hope the lesson goes well today!! I can't wait to hear about it


----------



## PoptartShop

Keep us posted on how the lesson goes!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So my lesson today was fantastic, it's really hot here as it's coming into summer so I had to do a night lesson, we tried this thing on Roy called a market Harper ? I think? It's really helpful especially since Roy sometimes ignores my cues so it helps reinforce it without forcing anything.

I did get to canter but only really at the end, it was a good lesson we only used the Harper for 5 minutes afterwards we rode without it and without it during warmup or cool down.


----------



## Tazzie

I'm glad you had a great lesson!! YAY!!

Now, I'm curious. What exactly is a Market Harper? What does it do? I've never heard of such a thing! :lol:


----------



## PoptartShop

Sweet!!! Awesome you had such a good lesson! 
You guys look really good. What is a Harper exactly? I'm clueless too @Tazzie LOL!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

It's actually called a market harbour... Awkward my bad. It supposed to be some kind of martingale it doesn't pull his head in or down it just sits until he tries to transform into a giraffe, it's not something I would use very often at all but it's just for a bit of extra help as sometimes it can be hard to get Roy working


----------



## Tihannah

I used something similar with Tess for a short while when I was trying to get her to relax and soften to the contact. It was a martingale though. It was like a chambon, I think? I only used it a handful of times though as I felt like she had a hard time trying to canter with it on. Glad you had such a great lesson though and good to see you and Roy back at it!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Aww I'm glad you and Roy had a great lessons! It looks like you guys had some really good work! That's great to hear!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Aww I'm glad you and Roy had a great lessons! It looks like you guys had some really good work! That's great to hear!


Yeah just need to work on my god awful slouching Lordy! 



Tihannah said:


> I used something similar with Tess for a short while when I was trying to get her to relax and soften to the contact. It was a martingale though. It was like a chambon, I think? I only used it a handful of times though as I felt like she had a hard time trying to canter with it on. Glad you had such a great lesson though and good to see you and Roy back at it!


Yes it's a type of martingale but different.. Sort of hard to explain unless you're there ? I felt strange about it at first because I'm not really into using gadgets that much but it really really helped him sort of understand what we being asked of him, I found it to be less of a fight or struggle. I won't be using it often though but my instructor was happy with how quickly he worked it out but we didn't canter in it only walk trot during the middle part of the lesson.


----------



## Tihannah

I don't think there's anything wrong with using a tool to help better communicate with your horse. I think for us in particular, it's even harder because we're learning ourselves! So sometimes our aids or cues aren't clear and we may confuse them. Like I said, I only had to use it a few times, and then when I felt like she started understanding, it went to the back of my tack locker. My trainer was also the one who suggested it, as she used it with another student who'd had a hard time getting her horse to soften to the contact. 

As greenies, sometimes I think we just need a little extra help, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as we don't become dependent on any specific tool and continue to learn and develop our riding skills.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with using a tool to help better communicate with your horse. I think for us in particular, it's even harder because we're learning ourselves! So sometimes our aids or cues aren't clear and we may confuse them. Like I said, I only had to use it a few times, and then when I felt like she started understanding, it went to the back of my tack locker. My trainer was also the one who suggested it, as she used it with another student who'd had a hard time getting her horse to soften to the contact.
> 
> As greenies, sometimes I think we just need a little extra help, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as we don't become dependent on any specific tool and continue to learn and develop our riding skills.


I agree


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So I decided to tell everyone why I'm so excited !! Well 2 things are happening next year, Roy is going up to my friends riding school to be leased out as a school horse in my last year of nursing school ! I know how well he will be cared for and I can still go and ride him and show him during the year. 

The other thing and the reason I am so excited is.........


I am buying a foal or weanling in a years time! Now before anyone gets upset I have my very experienced friend willing to be on hand 24/7 and she is going to help me break him/her in when the time comes and next year I am going to be helping her with her new weanling to gain experience. She thinks its a spectacular idea and the stud I am looking at is really brilliant they do flexible payment plans and are happy for me to pay it off however I want as long as its paid off by weaning which will be either early or late 2018. I am buying a friesian sport horse and I get to pick the mare!

This is all still a possibility as I haven't made my complete decision but I am extremely happy.


----------



## Golden Horse

How very exciting, how many mares to you get to choose from?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Golden Horse said:


> How very exciting, how many mares to you get to choose from?


They're sending me a package with the mares available for that season


----------



## JCnGrace

Cool but do you have to pick the mare and then take whatever comes out or do you get to pick which foal after they are born?


----------



## ShirtHotTeez

Well that is exciting  all the best with that.

The 'gadget' is a Market Harborough. It has the same name as a town in England, not sure why as the MH is also known as a German Martingale. There is a quite good explanation of it in Horse and Hound if you google it or follow this link ( Market Harborough ) scroll down to ballyhoss. I was going to copy it but thought copyright would be an issue!!

Nothing wrong with using ...some... gadgets for short term correction. We die-hards just get upset when they are used instead of learning/training.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

JCnGrace said:


> Cool but do you have to pick the mare and then take whatever comes out or do you get to pick which foal after they are born?


So for in utero they have 2 options, pick a mare you want a foal from or pay for 'a foal' and pick one you like when they're born it's basically being first pickings I chose the 'a foal' option so I can pick one based on what I want but I still want to see the mares.


----------



## Tazzie

I know we've been sharing our excitement on Facebook, but I'm still super excited for you!! I can't wait to see better pictures of the girls! It's going to be one PRETTY baby! And then join the rest of us developing a youngster into a dressage horse :lol: I'm so pumped for you!! :loveshower::dance-smiley05::dance-smiley05::dance-smiley05:


----------



## PoptartShop

Omgggg that is super exciting. Congrats!!!! Ahhhh!!! Cannot wait to see pictures & everything when it happens.


----------



## Change

Congratulations! Although I must admit waiting more than a year for baby pictures is going to be TOUGH!!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Change said:


> Congratulations! Although I must admit waiting more than a year for baby pictures is going to be TOUGH!!!


Amen!! I received the contract today just waiting on pictures of the mummas ! 

Not much to report, I'm on placement at the moment so riding has become a bit scarce but I'm hoping it will go quickly !


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Deposit is down! I repeat deposit is down !
Not sure if anyone remembers our pup buddy well he's 10 months old now ! Pain got out while I was on shift, not impressed and he knew it.


----------



## Tihannah

Congratulations!!! So excited for you! The pup is too cute!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So my friend and I took Roy and her horse critter to our local equestrian centre and went riding ! It was super fun and one of the best rides we have ever had together ! Both horses were calm and we both rode at the same time at opposite ends of the arena which is a first we haven't been able to do that before ! 

Then I decided to jump Roy and see what he's like, he was very excited! Not uncontrollable but excited. I haven't two pointed in awhile so it was a bit dodgy lol but it was fun.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So as said on the confession thread I am struggling to find some names for consideration for my new addition arriving late next year. While it is still ages away I want heaps of time to find a good name for the potential filly/colt. I am super excited!!


----------



## Change

Sire and Dam's names and breed would help a ton in generating name ideas!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Change said:


> Sire and Dam's names and breed would help a ton in generating name ideas!


Hard to get dams name as their are 5 potential mothers. The breed is possibly Friesian x WB but realistically could be Friesian X Paint will just depend on which one I like most. Sires name is Gidgee


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Unfortunately I have no name suggestions but I'm really glad to see you, Roy and your friend having a good time together. It looks like you've gained a lot of confidence and are doing well together! Congratulations!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Unfortunately I have no name suggestions but I'm really glad to see you, Roy and your friend having a good time together. It looks like you've gained a lot of confidence and are doing well together! Congratulations!


We have our days where things are good and days where things aren't working out. Really struggling to get him to canter


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Happy 12th birthday to the Royboy ! Such a patient and gentle creature ! Best first horse I could have asked for !


----------



## Tazzie

Awww, happy birthday Roy!! May there be many more great birthdays in your future! 

And I'll come up with names and privately send them to you :lol: when I get some free time this afternoon!


----------



## PoptartShop

Happy birthday Mr. Roy!  Mr. Handsome!!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much is going on here, it's very quiet because I'm working a lot right now and I'm just not really in a head space to be riding plus I have rural placement coming up. Here are some videos from our last ride together. I joined a fitness class which I have been going to twice a week so that's been different.

https://youtu.be/hNIWcsklIBk 

https://youtu.be/oawxKVdL1S0


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy and I have been working on our canter, I'm really trying to enforce his departure but he can be lazy and cranky sometimes! We have also started Roy on an ulcer treatment just to see if it helps him gain weight again


----------



## Tihannah

He looked really good in the video. Much more forward.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> He looked really good in the video. Much more forward.


He prefers the bigger paddock but he's still super lazy with the departure, going to have to get the dressage whip out so he knows I'm serious!


----------



## tinyliny

I am just curious how you can ride without half chaps and not have the stirrup leathers pinch your calf? whenever I do, the leathers pinch my calves like crazy. don't you get that?


----------



## Tihannah

I always ride with a whip. It helps not having to use my legs as much!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> I always ride with a whip. It helps not having to use my legs as much!


I don't usually use leg, it goes click,leg and then well kicking but I prefer the whip. He just needs to learn to be quicker and if we ride in the hack ring or dressage I suppose, he needs to learn to come off seat and leg aids


----------



## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> I am just curious how you can ride without half chaps and not have the stirrup leathers pinch your calf? whenever I do, the leathers pinch my calves like crazy. don't you get that?


I've never had a problem with getting pinched


----------



## tinyliny

I wonder why it does to me? I am rather fat, but some folks ive talked to who are thin say that they get pinched too.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Happy belated birthday to Roy!! So glad you found each other 

Look at you guys! Kudos on all your hard work and progress!


----------



## leannacinquanta

hey folks, for great vids on achieving long-and-low try Art-To-Ride's vids on Youtube, he's fantastic! Gave me the key to getting my high-energy, high-headed Friesian/QH to progress towards some semblance of stretch. Here's just one of many vids to wach -


----------



## Rainaisabelle

leannacinquanta said:


> hey folks, for great vids on achieving long-and-low try Art-To-Ride's vids on Youtube, he's fantastic! Gave me the key to getting my high-energy, high-headed Friesian/QH to progress towards some semblance of stretch. Here's just one of many vids to wach -


I think majority of us have seen those


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much going on, been on placement so haven't really seen my babies at all! But was super happy to see them when I got home !! I think Roy has grown a booty though lol


----------



## Rainaisabelle

https://youtu.be/h2QMxxzNTwY

Roy and I tried canter poles for the first time! Fun lol, I don't think they were entirely set out correctly as I asked my partner to do it but it was fun all the same


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much is going on here at the moment, I've ridden a few times but nothing substantial just casual rides. Roy's really been working hard I always get off and he's sweating between the legs, he's gained a bit of weight again so that's good but it's just the beginning of our dry season so I see it being a struggle. Been working on the canter and I'm getting better I think I just need to remember not to hunch when I ride because I do it a lot. 

I just spent some time grooming him this afternoon as I don't get to do it often and it was nice, made me remember why I love horses in the first place. I can see muscle on Roy but still a lot to go.


----------



## Tihannah

He's looking really good Raina!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Here is our family pictures !


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Really nice pictures Raina! Looks like the whole family had a great outing! Roy looks super handsome! Lovely photos!


----------



## Tazzie

LOVE your family pictures! They are just wonderful!


----------



## PoptartShop

Lovely pictures!  Soooo cute! & Roy is looking really good. A nice groom can definitely be rewarding. It's better than being in the saddle at times!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much happening here, I am at my parents place for Christmas in Hobart so I don't get to see Roy or buddy for a week  

Before I left we were working on transitions which surprising went well but we really need to work on Roy's dead to leg as he won't move over from leg and can be very resistive. My parents are buying me a lesson package so that should be good and really help me out. I'm also buying some cavalettis and new jump wings.


----------



## Tihannah

I've had the same problems with Tess. She will completely ignore the leg altogether, but its gotten better. Transitions have helped A LOT and keeping leg off as much as possible. Have you made a decision on a mare for the foal yet? How long do you have to decide?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> I've had the same problems with Tess. She will completely ignore the leg altogether, but its gotten better. Transitions have helped A LOT and keeping leg off as much as possible. Have you made a decision on a mare for the foal yet? How long do you have to decide?


8 months lol they aren't born for 8 - 9 months so I don't have to actually pick until the foals are born as I have first pick. It's a very hard choice though they really do have nice paints and nice warmbloods, I absolutely love their paints though but hard to know if a paint would be any good. That being said just because a horse is a paint or a warmblood doesn't mean they'll be any good anyway


----------



## Tihannah

They're all due around the same time? That's gonna be hard! Lol.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> They're all due around the same time? That's gonna be hard! Lol.


Within months of each other I think they were all bred around the time I was looking which was November so they'll be born August - October


----------



## Tihannah

Well, you'll definitely have to post pics of the options when they arrive!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Merry Christmas!! And good luck picking out a foal, I don't think the "breed" matters so much as long as they have regular gaits and you get along with the personality. It can be really hard to judge from foals though. A willing temperament is a big one and a kindness, I think. The cheeky ones are trouble and can be a real hand full. Lots and lots of work.

Friday as a baby was a real jerk, always pinning his ears, trying to bite and just unpleasant but as an adult he's a sweetheart, very in your pocket but not rude. Extremely smart and nice to ride. Good amateur type.

Frankie is similar to how she was as a baby. Sweet and willing, a little nervous of things but will listen to a rider or handler and be brave. She's pretty laid back and good about being introduced to new things, same as when she was a baby. I did not however know she's be so dorky.

Saturday was a really sweet baby, always willing and good and as an adult he is very sweet but he's also very quirky and obstinate and a bit of a jerk. If you're his boss but respectful, he's good but if not he's a *****.

Dev as a baby was mostly good, not always observant and he was pretty studdish as a colt but as an adult excellent temperament. He's goofy but kind.

Qira as a foal was very opinionated, high anxiety but very flashy and as an adult about the same. High anxiety and a total diva and outspoken about her opinions. Avoid anxiety lol.

Qiwi was difficult, she wasn't mean just difficult and now she's pretty solid.

Que is 2 but as a foal and yearling such a pain in the butt. He's ridiculously smart and I suspect he'll be a professionals type horse.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So it's official Roy is leaving us in January to go about an hour down the road to a nice and lovely spelling paddock while I finish my 3rd and last year of university. I will miss him but it's for the best as it means my partner and I can save up some money for our move and get more lessons


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I haven't posted many riding videos lately as I feel weird about my riding. Just feel a bit floppy and uncoordinated.

https://youtu.be/5LT_OTY0mQQ
https://youtu.be/Y1aGbNaXZvg


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I have gotten my jump set which I wanted for Christmas! I'm super keen to try a grid with Roy tomorrow ! Should be interesting


----------



## PoptartShop

Awww it's okay if you're a little rusty! I feel like this time of year I am also rusty and unbalanced. Probably because we don't ride as often!  You don't look bad though! I wish the weather was that nice here right now...lol.

Yayyy that's awesome! Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

PoptartShop said:


> Awww it's okay if you're a little rusty! I feel like this time of year I am also rusty and unbalanced. Probably because we don't ride as often!  You don't look bad though! I wish the weather was that nice here right now...lol.
> 
> Yayyy that's awesome! Let us know how it goes.


Yeah just not feeling very steady or solid as I used to.


----------



## Tihannah

I definitely have days like that! Where I'm just feeling uncoordinated or unbalanced?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> I definitely have days like that! Where I'm just feeling uncoordinated or unbalanced?


Yes this ride just didn't feel right like it normally does just felt very plain and not as smooth not that we are gliding around but just rough and ugly


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I thought I would add what happened today as I did some ground work with him. 

He was really good, so much more consistent with the stretching and he even lowered his head a bit in the canter still a bit cranky pants about it but we worked a lot on transitions and switching sides but keeping the rhythm which I think he struggled a bit but he really tried! We did some ground work as well mosty moving the HQ over and moving the fore over and some backing up. We also did some bending from ground just trying to get him less stiff in the poll so I think I might add some carrot stretches in.


----------



## Tihannah

I do the carrot stretches with Tess before every ride. It has really helped to loosen her up a lot. She used to be SUPER stiff on one side and now she can reach clear back to her bum!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> I do the carrot stretches with Tess before every ride. It has really helped to loosen her up a lot. She used to be SUPER stiff on one side and now she can reach clear back to her bum!


Wonder if I stick a carrot on the end of a stick I'll get better transitions :rofl:


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Our first canter circle, still a bit rough but I feel like it's getting better.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Overall I think it's getting a lot better! You're much more with the motion and Roy is able to use canter more fluidly. Over all you're much more balanced! Kudos!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Overall I think it's getting a lot better! You're much more with the motion and Roy is able to use canter more fluidly. Over all you're much more balanced! Kudos!


I think he's getting stronger; I am still really struggling to get him to move over, getting him to go forward is no problems but trying to push him over into the outside rein with the inside leg is a serious struggle!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

A thing that may help with the side way is not the idea of pushing him over but the idea of how if you put more weight into your inside stirrup or outside stirrup affects him. 

For example with the babies it helps doing the fall in or step into your inside stirrup, open your inside rein wide and guide the horse using your weight onto a small circle, keep them there a few strides then step into your outside stirrup with an open outside rein, rather than inside rein. Leaving it open to show the horse where you'd like them to put their weight. And when you do ask for side ways, don't think of it as pushing over but like you're asking him to step over. Apply soft pressure with your leg when you feel his rib cage push into your leg, step into your outside stirrup and look where you'd like to go and allow it to happen. If you have to push or force it, it won't work. You can also ask Roy to leg yield from the ground to help him get the idea and coordination better.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> A thing that may help with the side way is not the idea of pushing him over but the idea of how if you put more weight into your inside stirrup or outside stirrup affects him.
> 
> For example with the babies it helps doing the fall in or step into your inside stirrup, open your inside rein wide and guide the horse using your weight onto a small circle, keep them there a few strides then step into your outside stirrup with an open outside rein, rather than inside rein. Leaving it open to show the horse where you'd like them to put their weight. And when you do ask for side ways, don't think of it as pushing over but like you're asking him to step over. Apply soft pressure with your leg when you feel his rib cage push into your leg, step into your outside stirrup and look where you'd like to go and allow it to happen. If you have to push or force it, it won't work. You can also ask Roy to leg yield from the ground to help him get the idea and coordination better.


Step into it was the the phrase I was looking for! I don't think he's doing it on purpose I just think he doesn't understand and it's hard for me to teach something I'm not entirely familiar with either! Hopefully while he's gone this year I can go and get lessons!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

That makes sense to me and Roy seems pretty genuine and good natured. He seems like he wants to do his best and if he has a question he tries to figure it out, even if he doesn't quite understand.

But I hope you both can figure it out, it's extremely hard to be on your own.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

We may have found a leasing home for Roy, lovely lady who just moved here looking for a confidence builder and also she wants her kids to be around horses. She hasn't owned and worked with horses before but she really loved him and thought he was great.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> A thing that may help with the side way is not the idea of pushing him over but the idea of how if you put more weight into your inside stirrup or outside stirrup affects him.
> 
> For example with the babies it helps doing the fall in or step into your inside stirrup, open your inside rein wide and guide the horse using your weight onto a small circle, keep them there a few strides then step into your outside stirrup with an open outside rein, rather than inside rein. Leaving it open to show the horse where you'd like them to put their weight. And when you do ask for side ways, don't think of it as pushing over but like you're asking him to step over. Apply soft pressure with your leg when you feel his rib cage push into your leg, step into your outside stirrup and look where you'd like to go and allow it to happen. If you have to push or force it, it won't work. You can also ask Roy to leg yield from the ground to help him get the idea and coordination better.



Cassie could I clarify this with you ? So if Roy is falling in to the left would I put my weight on my outside seat bone, looks where I want him to go and softly use pressure to get him to step over.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

If Roy is falling in, it's better to step into your outside stirrup or opposite direction of where Roy is falling in. Horses want to position themselves underneath our balance so by standing into your inside or outside stirrup you can affect his balance. I don't think of sitting heavier into seat bones because you don't want to sit heavy on your seat bones but sit lightly and position stepping more into a stirrup or less into a stirrup which I guess can put more weight into one seat bone or the other I just think in terms of thought it's better to think of stepping into one stirrup or the other vs weight down in one seat bone vs the other.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Had my first lesson with the eventer today it was amazing!! I felt so good riding Roy and we worked on lots of I'm not sure what it's called but bringing him to the slowest walk he could and then pushing he into a big walk we did it in trot to. Canter was a bit messy I don't think he's ready for someone to sit the canter he does better if someone two points which was proven today when the eventer got on and cantered him in a massive circle it was awesome!! I've never seen Roy do it he was so beautiful. 

Even though Roy's going on lease I will be continuing hopefully with this eventer riding her mare. I'm excited


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Uh literally just thought of what the exercise is called... transitions within gaits


----------



## Tazzie

Yay!! Sounds like a great lesson!!


----------



## PoptartShop

Glad you had a good lesson!  That is super exciting!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

The leasee just messaged me and told me he was settling well and doing really well with her kids. I'm really glad it's going well but I'm super struggling a bit without him.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

So the lease is going well, I'm sort of muddling through it as I've never leased before. I don't think I'll do it again lol! 

Bit depressed about it and struggling on what to do throughout my lease I really miss Roy. I do get to see him since it's a part lease but it's sort of weird.


----------



## PoptartShop

I know, it has to be hard not being with him all the time.  It would be hard for anyone to adjust to. Ugh. I hope it gets easier though as time goes on.
I'm glad you get to see him too.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Well the leasee rode Roy yesterday while I watched on. It was okay I suppose ( pretty sure I'm biased) I didn't see anything glaring or unnatural of someone who hasn't ridden in 10 years. We did have a chat about a couple of things that I was a bit iffy of when she rode him but I suppose they will figure it out. Still feel a bit weird about it.

One of the positives were I really noticed how Roy has changed since the start of the thread to now. I really saw how a beginner riding him was difficult for him if you get my meaning? Not that I'm more advanced but I could just see the difference in him very clearly.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much to update, Roys doing well  we moved him to new agistment again haha but it's nicer with its own tack shed, stables and arena all to ourselves he's definitely getting spoiled!! 


I have 3 lessons with the eventer this month and I'm super looking forward to it ! I'm really looking forward to continuing Roys education even while he's on lease


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

So glad to hear Roy is doing well and is getting so spoiled! Glad he's enjoying his lease situation!

Good luck with your lessons! I hope they go well!


----------



## PoptartShop

Yay I'm glad Roy is doing well!  He's definitely living the life now! Awww.
The lessons with the eventer will be awesome too. Keep us posted!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Update soon


----------



## Rainaisabelle

My lesson with the eventer went really well, we did some clover leaf pattern work which was actually really hard for Roy and I and I came to realise some hard truths about my focus and steering ! We also did some two point cantering which was hard work for both of us but you can tell Roy enjoyed it as he got to stretch out a bit! I have another lesson tomorrow so should be interesting and I'm going to try and hack Roy out even though we are near the road


----------



## PoptartShop

So happy your lesson with the eventer went well.  That's great!! Two-point cantering sounds nice! I need to try that. :lol:
That is hard work, I'm sure you're sore. I hope you have another good lesson today!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Today's lesson was fantastic! Worked a lot on straightness with trot poles and working on transitions within the gait! Roy really responds well to the transitions within the gait it really focuses him. We did some canter work over some poles which was really good but then I ate dirt haha!

Coming over the pole at on one side I could feel Roy getting quite hot and excited and I really should have pulled him up but I didn't and he hit a long spot before the pole did a double jump and turned quite sharp and I went flying! It was a freak accident and I'm okay other then a swollen left elbow and swollen right ankle!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Ouch! Sorry to hear about what happened! I hope you make a full recovery quickly! Sorry about the swollen ankle. I remember one time tripping down the stair and falling and my ankle was pretty swollen. It healed within a month, so you should be in ship shape pretty quickly (or at least I hope so) especially since you know all the proper ways to treat it


----------



## Rainaisabelle

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Ouch! Sorry to hear about what happened! I hope you make a full recovery quickly! Sorry about the swollen ankle. I remember one time tripping down the stair and falling and my ankle was pretty swollen. It healed within a month, so you should be in ship shape pretty quickly (or at least I hope so) especially since you know all the proper ways to treat it


 Live and learn! I'd do it again maybe not the falling but the lesson was awesome and I'd do that again!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Had another lesson yesterday, couldn't do a whole lot because of my ankle but it was still a lot of fun. We did some real pony club type stuff like can you reach behind and touch his tail etc we have also been doing a lot of transitions within the gait such as small walk, big walk, small trot, big trot etc but we didn't canter today because of my ankle. 


The pony club stuff got me thinking though how many times do we as rider go back to the fun kind of basics? I mean the pony club basics are there for a reason right? How many times do we actually go back to them to evaluate our balance or even our relationship with our horse. It was harder then people think like putting your hand on your helmet and steering with only your legs and body position! It's harder then people think but it really makes you realise how responsive our horses actually are and how we do to much to get them where we want them! All it took was me looking down the centreline and Roy went in that direction.


Anyway that's just my spiel haha


----------



## PoptartShop

Hope your ankle heals soon.  Ouch.
Glad you had a fun lesson though, regardless!  Going back to the basics is definitely helpful. It isn't always easy, like people assume. I agree! It's a lot of work!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

My lesson was unfortunately cancelled due to my instructor being sick  But I took Roy out on a mini hack today it was fun and he was so well behaved except for the stupid dogs that were barking!!!!!


Yesterday I did some riding as well and I can't believe the difference in us both its so much nicer to ride him and we aren't fighting as much as we used to and I just feel more intune with him, I'm so thankful for this instructor I really am!


----------



## PoptartShop

Ah, my lesson was cancelled Saturday too!  Because it was so cold though.
Glad you got to ride though anyway, and that you guys are improving.  Always great to have a good instructor. So happy for you two.


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

I'm really glad this instructor has helped you and Roy out so much. That's really awesome! Keep up the good work!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

It's been a crazy week, my leasee and I went on a road trip to visit a potential horse for her and she loved him! She paid for him and he was trucked up the next day so now Roy has a paddock mate ! 

I rode Roy for the first time for atleast a week and I have to say I've missed him. His canter was fantastic to the right and I can even sit it now ! The left needs more work but that's okay. I even got some nice stretching for the contact trot circles which I'm pretty proud of. Unfortunately he seems to have reverted back to star gazing which is a bit of a pain so I'm going to talk to the event next week about maybe trying to get him a bit more in frame.


Really need to work on our canter departs as at this point he's really sluggish to get into it, he likes to rush into it so I've been working hard on bringing him back and then asking again. I wonder if I've been getting my cues wrong or something ? I'm not sure he gets there but it's very rushed into so will have to work on that!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Well it is hot and humid in Cairns today! I had a lesson but we didn't do much because its so hot and humid which makes Roy quite tired easily and I don't blame him as I get quite hot and tired. We usually aim for our lessons to be late afternoon or early morning but we didn't realize it would be that hot so quick as it's been quite mild. 

Highlights:
My instructor believes that I look way more confident, professional and stronger in general with Roy and that Roy is really carrying himself better, hopefully I can get a video of it because I think some people will be really surprised at it! We worked on just general stuff transitions within the paces and some pole work leading up to a cross rail. The instructor is really confidence giving? She really believes Roy and I have potential its just all about the training and not only building my confidence but making Roy feel like he is the biggest and best horse out lol! Roy has definitely changed in the way he carries himself and I feel really confident and proud of him for trying his hardest in every lesson we have had. 

Downfalls:

I really struggle sometimes with my steering and clear communication, I think I have a habit that most people have and looking at Roy rather then where I'm going which is annoying and bad when you're trying to jump focus on jumps etc. My biggest struggle currently is Roys canter, I really struggle staying together and I feel like Roy gets quite anxious and starts to run from me and then in turn I get quite nervous. I can sit and be really nice for a couple of strides but after that it gets quite bumpy and I struggle to make Roy stay in a slow consistent rhythm rather then run off with me as I know hes not doing it intentionally, the problem is any touch on the reins he goes into the trot so I need to really work on being very gentle with my half halts. I really don't believe he is trying to run but I believe we are feeding into each other and I don't feel nervous but if we do a lap he starts to get a bit rushy? I hope I am making sense!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy the lucky boy is hopefully getting a massage on Thursday!


----------



## PoptartShop

Ooooh he's gonna love that!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Unfortunately no massage and no lesson this weekend! It's been very wet lately because we were expecting a cyclone that has now gone further south. Bit disappointed.


Looking for a jump saddle for Roy has become an absolute nightmare! He's so hard to fit for!! My budget is quite small because of uni but hoping to find a nice second hand saddle for him. 

On the foal front it's almost 4 months away! We are planning our trip down and I'm super excited to meet the new addition to the family, I cannot wait!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not a lot has gone on lately, I have been at placement the last couple of weeks so horse riding has sort of been put on hold. Recently went and watched my instructor riding her young gelding at a jump clinic which was very interesting, I absolutely love her horse hes such a funny boy, big and boofy but was an amazing mover and seemed to do really well with jumping. 

Had a lesson on Saturday and we really worked on keeping Roy straight and keeping him engaged. We did some exercises relating to speed control and accuracy which was actually a lot of fun and it's a really good confidence builder for both Roy and I. His canter lately has just been amazing very controlled and steady which makes my life a lot easier. I just recently got my first jumping saddle a bates 17" can't wait for it to arrive.




3 months & 16 days until the foal begin arriving.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much going on at the moment, been pretty wet and it's been pretty trial and error with feeds trying to find the right one that works for Roy. 

XC clinic is at the end of may next month I am hoping we can go but Roy's health takes priority. Just got a new jumping saddle for $60 and it's actually a pretty decent fit!


----------



## PoptartShop

Wow, $60? That's a steal!  Glad it fits him nicely too. Even better.
I hope you can do the XC clinic, would be fun!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Whoo got the XC clinic at the end of may and at the end of June my friend and I are going to a dressage clinic hopefully! I'm super excited. Roy's had a week off as he had a chiro appointment last week which found he was out in his neck and really locked in his shoulders so hopefully he's feeling better as I'm getting on today.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I just wanted to post on here not that many people follow this anymore ahah that I will be taking a break from most of my social media platforms as I have been rather unwell lately and I do not feel that any of these platforms are helping currently, I'll still be on my FB if anyone needs to contact me. Have a good one guys


----------



## PoptartShop

Awww, gonna miss your updates! I hope you feel better though. <3 :sad:


----------



## Tihannah

Dang it Raina! I was just getting caught up. Glad to hear you are doing so well with the trainer. Thought I was gonna scroll down and see a video!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> Dang it Raina! I was just getting caught up. Glad to hear you are doing so well with the trainer. Thought I was gonna scroll down and see a video!


Maybe next time


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Good luck with your endeavors! I hope everything goes well!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I just wanted to let people know I am taking an extended break from here and even facebook, I am having some serious trouble mentally and to be honest horses and horse people + normal people are just really starting to affect my personal and family life, I love Roy and he won't be going anywhere but I need to get back to doing what I love. I can't stand all the pressure to be honest and I am really sick of being made out to be the bad guy constantly especially in my real life horsey world, I am doing the best I can. I am really struggling at the moment and I need to be more focused on my school work especially since its my last year. Roy and I have a dressage clinic on monday and then he will be going out on spell for 6 weeks in September. I hope everyone is doing well.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Haven't updated in so long! Not much has gone on with Roy he has been sitting in the paddock for the last couple of months due to my last semester of university. He got his x-rays done and as we suspected he does have some damage to his pedal bone but at this point we are unsure how restricting this will be.


For some exciting news we have welcomes a new furbaby into our family! A beautiful colt which we have not yet named, hes a real sweetheart with lots of character and personality. I will be putting his progress in here as it comes.


----------



## Tihannah

Congratulations! Saw the pics. He looks adorable!


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

Congratulations on the new baby! He's darling! So glad you're enjoying him!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> Congratulations! Saw the pics. He looks adorable!





DanteDressageNerd said:


> Congratulations on the new baby! He's darling! So glad you're enjoying him!


Yes he's a very intelligent horse for such a young age and very curious.




Name wise we haven't really got anything haha 

Paddock names:??

Theo
Diego

Registered names:??

Lord Arion (meaning war horse)
Great xanthos (Achilles war horse)


Nothing has really stuck except his nickname which is baby g


----------



## Rainaisabelle

More pictures of baby Theo! He is a beautiful boy , very curious and intelligent and very similar to his father.


----------



## Tazzie

He is so cute!! You made a good choice with him


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much of an update but lovely baby Theo had his first halter lesson and did spectacularly! Roy is still resting and getting fed and loved by my beautiful partner while I am on placement.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Updated photo of Theo! Almost a month old now


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy is still on paddock rest at the moment and he is absolutely loving it! He is so full of spirit and fire at the moment due to the weather warming up and not having any work to do. I think its nice to see him acting a bit like a young horse. He has until December off and then he is getting x-rayed again to see how he is progressing and to begin a rehab plan. 
I am going to start some light inhand work with him just going over poles and maybe some fun training stuff that he can do to keep him engaged and not so crazy.

I am just about finished my last placement shift! I have 3 hours to go and then I am done officially I am so excited I cannot believe it!! 2 exams and then graduating!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I have sat my final exams ! Such a relief. Its been super busy here with looking after the horses, working and studying for my final exams! I am going to get on Roy today possibly because we are leaving for the beach on the 10th for 2 days as I won a holiday down there! I have been feeling a bit lonely lately as I feel like some of my friends have left me behind for other friends but I suppose that's just life?

Anyway Theo is amazing, he is maturing into such a handsome horse I am extremely impressed with him!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Rode Roy today for the first time in 5 months, he was really good. I didn?t do much with him as he isn?t really meant to be doing strenuous work in this stage of his recovery. I did try some basic work with him just trying to get into the outside rein but like before he was on rest it?s a real struggle to get him stepping over.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Rode Roy today, we worked on just some basic stuff like moving over, transitions within the gait. He?s doing better with the moving over, I just really need to work on getting him to actually do a leg yield because at the moment it?s just moving over slightly, but that?s what I love about Roy he always gives me a try regardless he is always out to give me a try.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Took Roy and my friends horse to the beach this weekend and they loved it! It was so much fun. I got to canter Roy along the beach which is something I could check off my list. It was just so nice to go somewhere without lists of expectations we just hung around and did nothing. My friend and I stayed at this nice resort where we just got to relax without any interruptions


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Not much to update, Roy is still on holidays but we are looking for new boarding so we can fit Theo in  hopefully somewhere with more trails 

I’ve been feeling a bit Ick lately, mostly I feel like I don’t know who my really friends are and I’m struggling to really find out who really is. I’m at an awkward phase in my life at the moment as I’ve just finished university and I’m waiting to start my new job and I haven’t found much else to do. 

On the other hand I can’t wait to start my new job as it means better income and stability.


----------



## NavigatorsMom

I love your beach pictures!

Just finishing school and figuring out how to settle into the "real world" can be a challenging and awkward time, but you'll manage! It just takes some time.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roys work out plan – 3 days a week​ Low impact work on soft ground​ ​ Week 1: 
Walking 10 minutes double lunging 
Goals
· Bending,
· Suppling
· Marching pace 
· Relaxation

Week 2:
Walking 15 minutes double lunging
Goals:
· Bending
· Suppling
· Marching pace
· Relaxation
Week 3:
Walking 20 minutes, 5 minutes trotting 
Goals: 
· Bending
· Suppling
· Forward
· Stretching
· Relaxation
Week 4: 
Walking 20 minutes, 10 minutes trotting
Goals:
· Bending
· Suppling
· Forward
· Stretching
· Relaxation 
Week 5: 
Walking 10 minutes, trotting 10 minutes, canter 5 minutes
Goals
· Bending
· Suppling
· Forward
· Stretching
· Relaxation
Week 6:
Begin riding
10minutes walking
Goals
· Bending
· Suppling
· Forward
· Stretching 
· Relaxation 

Week 7: 
Begin riding
10 minutes walking, 10 minutes trotting
Goals
· Bending
· Suppling
· Forward
· Stretching
· Relaxation


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy is going exceptionally well with his return to work and we are taking it at a snail pace but he doesn’t seem to be struggling at all! 

I’m not really sure if anyone reads this thread anymore and I’m not sure it really matters anyway I like to look back at where I began with Roy boy and where we are now. This year we are making the tough decision to keep Roy or to move him on. It’s a seriously hard decision which has taken a lot of thought on my part and even after all the thinking I still don’t have a proper answer, we will just have to wait and see until after his x-rays.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I haven’t really posted about Roy in a couple of months as I didn’t really have much to say. He’s now by the looks of things completely sound. I’m quite happy with how he’s going and my plan for this year is to get more lessons, more clinics and more shows with our new addition Theo.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Work has been really busy as of late so I have been unable to ride as much as I would like to. But I have recently been taking lessons again with a lady across the road from my agistment and it seems to be going extremely well and I am learning so much with Roy. I am excited to hopefully ride in a competition this year. 

Young Theo has just been working on how to trot on the lead and wear a rug so he is ready for his first inhand competition possibly at the end of May!


----------



## Tazzie

Yay Theo!!

Also yay for learning so much! Roy looks AMAZING there!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Roy has been excelling in our lessons lately and I feel more comfortable riding him and gaining more experience with how to deal with a few of his quirks but also work on my quirks as well! 

Theo has his first vaccination today and we plaited him up the other day in preparation for his first competition! He’s grown so much from when he came he’s now 14hh at 8 months!!!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Theo had a second in the show we most recently took him to and I am super proud! Unfortunately their separation anxiety is continuing to persist which we are now working to fix. Roy is doing so well in his lessons recently, he is really learning to be soft and I am learning how to better coordinate my aids. He is a typical horse and doesn't like being told how to work and can be hard to manage at times but has gotten better at finding the straightness. We have not progressed to the canter yet as we just are not quite ready yet in terms of easy to organise aids etc. But he is doing so well and I will hopefully get videos/pictures later in my next lesson!


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Oh my lord, I have not really updated this journal since may!

To be honest it has been quiet on my end with both my horses, I have really been struggling with them both lately especially with their separation anxiety. With Roy I have been taking weekly lessons but that stopped in October due to the oncoming heat/wet season. Since this time both my horses have been spelling/resting until the oncoming season.
Unfortunately a couple of days ago I went to visit Roy and found he was 3 legged lame and was hop walking, he and 2 other horses had some kind of tussle and he had come off the worst, unfortunately he now has a nasty case of cellulitis on his L) leg and a puncture wound to his upper leg on his R) leg, plus bite marks and hes lost weight which as the opposite of why he was at this place. No maliciousness though to the place looking after him as it was just an accident and unforeseeable. 
Theo is at another spelling agistment to try and work on his separation anxiety and vice versa with Roy.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Poor Roy


----------



## PoptartShop

Oh my gosh, poor Roy! :sad: That is horrible. I hope he feels better soon, poor thing.  I know going to see him and seeing that was hard! Crossing my fingers he feels better ASAP!! So sorry to hear this.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

PoptartShop said:


> Oh my gosh, poor Roy! :sad: That is horrible. I hope he feels better soon, poor thing.  I know going to see him and seeing that was hard! Crossing my fingers he feels better ASAP!! So sorry to hear this.



Thanks ! I was quite upset about it.


I spoke to my instructor the other night as I am super keen once Roy is better to get back into it once the wet season is over !
She is also very keen to get back into it so I am excited


----------



## Rainaisabelle

Poor Roy is now clear from swelling and cellulitis but now unfortunately has an abscess!! The poor boy can't catch a break. I was really keen to ride but his comfort comes first 100% so at the moment that is on the back burner. However I may bring Roy home tomorrow or on the weekend.


----------



## NavigatorsMom

Aww, poor Roy!  It will be good to have him home again, you'll be able to check up on him more easily and know how he's doing. I think he would like being home again too. Hope he feels better soon! I know abscesses are awful on their own, let alone while dealing with other issues.


----------



## Tihannah

Poor Roy! Sending well wishes and fast healing!


----------



## PoptartShop

Poor guy! :sad: I hope you can bring him home.


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## Rainaisabelle

Today we bought both boys home! Roy’s looking a bit underweight but considering what’s been going on I am not too concerned as I know that now that he’s home he will be fine. He’s still a bit sore so we will leave him for 2 weeks and then see how he is.


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## PoptartShop

YAY! So happy they are both finally home.  Roy could've just lost weight from everything that's been going on. I'm sure he will be looking fine in no time. <3


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## Rainaisabelle

Roy is doing well, hes no longer lame and is coming back into work. However we are taking it slowly as Roy is still gaining weight and its very wet/hot here at the moment so its hard to go out and ride as we are unable to ride until 6pm +. Hopefully we will be going to a dressage training weekend in april, I am hoping to restart lessons soon so we can practice


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## PoptartShop

Glad to hear he is doing better. Taking it slow is the best thing for him right now.  Dressage training will be fun!


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## Rainaisabelle

Well our winning streak has yet again come to a close and Roy is now staying at our local vet clinic as he has an eye ulcer and we want to treat it aggressively to prevent further damage to his eye.


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## Rainaisabelle

Rainaisabelle said:


> Well our winning streak has yet again come to a close and Roy is now staying at our local vet clinic as he has an eye ulcer and we want to treat it aggressively to prevent further damage to his eye.


While we are not in dire straits yet, I am absolutely devastated as Roy and I were just getting it all together and I was just about to start riding again and he’s sick again.


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## PoptartShop

So sorry to hear about his eye. :sad: I hope he recovers smoothly & everything goes okay. Please keep us posted.  Poor buddy can't seem to catch a break. I'm so sorry.


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## knightrider

So sorry. That is a complete bummer.


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## Rainaisabelle

Not much of an update. Roy is at our local vet clinic with a medication tube in his eye as we are trying to treat this very aggressively. They debrided the ulcer in his eye but they believe they may have to do it again. We are trying to find somewhere for him to stay closer to home so we might be able to manage it.


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## Rainaisabelle

So I typed out this really long update but for some reason I couldn't post it.
Anyway, Roy is finally back home after 13 days at the vet clinic and a further 8 days at a friends in a small yard as he had the eye tube in. Finally on Monday his eye tube was taken out at the ulcer had stopped up taking dye which means it is officially healed however Roy is still being monitored closely to make sure it doesn't make a return. On Tuesday after the tube was taken out I took him home and he was so happy to get back into the big paddock. Roy has a hatred of being in stalls or small yards and he will box walk no matter what the conditions. At the vet clinic they had to put him in a medium sized yard due to the fact he box walks and was causing quite a fuss in the stables. When I did bring him home he was quite anxious and agitated but settled quite easily at my friends place. 


Now that the tube is removed he has been cleared for work and once the ground dries up we will hopefully be able to ride as we have booked a dressage lesson in early may!


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## PoptartShop

Happy to hear Roy is back home & improving! I am very excited for you to get him back into work & doing some dressage will be lovely!


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## tinyliny

I just cringe to imagine the vet bill you must have. Glad to hear that you have him back, in good shape. 



I, too, look forward to videos of your riding. It has been fun to see your great progress with Roy over the years.


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## Rainaisabelle

The vet bill is going to be big, which scares me 

I got Roy a massage as the poor guy has really been through the ringer lately. He was quite sore through his back and neck. This doesn't surprise as I am sure everything would be out of whack with the cellulitis, abscess and eye ulcer. I did buy them a massage pad as well so hopefully once it dries up I can start using it again.


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## Rainaisabelle

Roy is back to being good ol Roy and he is now back in work again. We have been having some issues with our farrier situation, which I am not really confident on which path to take in regards to it. Hes been getting lunged for 10 minutes the last couple of days over some poles and finishing off with using the massage pad which he loves!! We are getting ready for our biggest show of the year in which I am showing both Roy and Theo. Theo and I are also working towards high point yearling in his breed society.


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## Tihannah

So glad Roy is doing better and back at work. I know it's been hard on you guys. Good luck at the show!


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## Rainaisabelle

Royboy is going well, still a paddock ornament at the moment however is being lunged 4 days a week at the moment.
Hoping to hop on him this week as I need to get him ready for a clinic i am going to at the beginning of June!
I am so nervous/excited!!


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## NavigatorsMom

Clinic will be awesome!! I can't wait to hear all about it  It's good that he's getting lunged too, any little bit of exercise is better than nothing.


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## Rainaisabelle

Royboy is looking and feeling a lot better!
I am hoping that we can fit in atleast one dressage show/hack show between now and the end of the year.
We have just bought a brand new float for both the boys to hopefully keep them super comfortable for showing as its built extra high/wide specifically for big horses


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## tinyliny

Do you have any photos of your new float? I'd like to see it. Are floats there the same as here in US?


Also, what kind of clinic is it? how many days?


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## Rainaisabelle

http://www.lbfloats.com.au/lb_content/uploads/2016/02/florencemain.jpg

I don't have any pictures of my own float as its being custom built at the moment, but that is a photo from google as an example 

It was a dressage clinic and it was one day, however we didn't end up getting to go as the float we were using the electric brakes weren't working properly.


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## tinyliny

That float is very slick looking. It’s a slant load?


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## Rainaisabelle

tinyliny said:


> That float is very slick looking. It’s a slant load?


Yep with a few extra bits and pieces


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## Rainaisabelle

Both the boys are doing well how ever I am just struggling to find the motivation/want to ride / work my horses.


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## Tihannah

Rainaisabelle said:


> Both the boys are doing well how ever I am just struggling to find the motivation/want to ride / work my horses.


Love the new float! So jealous! I need a truck and a trailer (float). 

I'm in the opposite boat. Had North going well and in consistent work showing great strides everyday, and now we're dealing with storms and a possible hurricane so he's had 3 days off and probably several more and with that kid, once you've given him more than a few days off, he likes to declare himself retired! Lol.

You guys are in the cool season over there right now right?


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## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> Love the new float! So jealous! I need a truck and a trailer (float).
> 
> I'm in the opposite boat. Had North going well and in consistent work showing great strides everyday, and now we're dealing with storms and a possible hurricane so he's had 3 days off and probably several more and with that kid, once you've given him more than a few days off, he likes to declare himself retired! Lol.
> 
> You guys are in the cool season over there right now right?



Hey you! Glad you and North are meshing so well!!! 
Yeah we are, we are technically in our prime show season or dry season. 
Roys a bit loony tunes right now hes had to much time off and once hes had too much time off he is an arrogant beast and can be really hard to manage under saddle. 
Theo is just getting big and he knows it fo sure


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## Rainaisabelle

Its nearing the end of our season, we have 2 more shows to go. I have entered Theo in the show in August and I will be entering Roy in the show in September. I will hopefully be getting back on Roy tomorrow and getting him ready for our show in September. I am hoping to compete him in a walk/trot class and some inhand classes. He is looking good for 15 though! Very proud of how he is looking at the moment considering how little work he has been in.


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## Rainaisabelle

I haven't updated in awhile! I try to keep up but I always forget haha
Royboy has been going well but we haven't really done anything ! I just haven't regained my motivation this year but I'm hoping next year will be better. I am looking to take Roy to a jump clinic in October just as a beginner with poles and xrails probably. We didn't end up making it to the show in September as it was cancelled but its now been moved to November which I am hoping to attend with both Roy & Theo but will see how we go. 


Roy had a saddle fit which went well just because of the angle of his back we had to put a back shim on to level out the saddle which worked really well but unfortunately the beautiful jump saddle I have doesn't fit him which makes me very upset haha as I love that saddle!


We had 1 lesson a week ago and my trainer was very impressed with him as we have gone from 40 minutes of an hour lesson trying to get him to settle and think to about 10 minutes of an hour lesson. I'm still struggling with the canter but I think it will just come with more work and me putting the time in.


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## Rainaisabelle

I confess not much to confess, Roy has really been lounging around due me being extra busy lately. I took theo to a show and he did alright, we definitely have some stuff to work on but we have some direction so that is good. Roy has been well however hes starting to drop condition again which seems to be a seasonal thing as it happens around this time every year even with an increase in feed and hay.

I took Roy to a jump clinic and I was so proud of him!! We didn't do a whole load but the small amount of stuff we did was awesome! 
We trotted poles and cross rails and cantered after some of the cross rails at the end! 
I was so proud as his canter towards the end was beautiful and I can now sit him which I am so happy about!
I feel so much better as a rider now after getting so many lessons as I am able to ride him and really give him direction. Its a whole new level of riding for me and I am excited for next year.
The boys are now on holiday as we are going into our wet season and it is disgustingly hot and humid !


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## Rainaisabelle

Haven’t updated in forever tbh, I find it hard to keep up with the forum these days, my schedule keeps me pretty busy ! 

Roy has been alright, we took his shoes off and for the first time in 3 years he is having a break from them over the wet season! He was doing really well until he got a severe case of thrush which made him go lame even after continuous treatment so we had to put his shoes back on! However it should be noted that when the vet used hoof testers he did flinch at all! Even when she did his front feet! 


We haven’t started riding again yet as it’s so hot and humid here right now that it’s so ridiculous. I’m hoping we can start more consistent work soonish!


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## Rainaisabelle

Oof been so long since I’ve updated.I won’t say much except Roy turns 17 this year he’s officially 95% retired from riding, I might get on him every once in awhile but I really doubt it.

Unfortunately we ran into some big health issues this year unrelated to his feet, Roy lost all his top front teeth despite good dental care he just didn’t have good teeth 🤷🏻‍♀️. With his deteriorating dental problems we also found that he has cushings so that was a bit of a blow aswell, we are currently treating him for cushings which seems to be going okay but without his front teeth I’m not sure how well he is going to progress.


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## knightrider

So sorry to read this. I always liked reading about your progress.


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## Rainaisabelle

Just thought I’d do my last update for Roy I guess.
On the 31/1/2022 Roy was put to sleep, this was an extremely hard decision however we believed that it was in Roy’s best interest as he was deteriorating.
It was time and while for me it hurts I am at peace with the decision.


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## Whinnie

A very hard, but selfless decision. He knew that he was loved.


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## knightrider

Oh, I am so sorry. I have followed your journal ever since you started it. What a sad thing to tell. My heart is with you.


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## carshon

I am so sorry to hear your journey ended this way, may your heart rest easy knowing you did what was best.


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