# am I sitting too far back?



## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

hi all,
as some people know I loan a mare and recently I've been reviewing some vids of me riding, I don't think the saddle is placed wrong but to me it looks like I'm too far back, like in the middle of her back... when I started riding her I was leaning forward a lot and my legs would go really far back but now I'm staying fairly straight and doing ok at walk and canter but my trot looks forced and weird... could be me just not rising properly but I've never really had an obvious problem at trot before so I'm doubtful.

if it is pushing me back do you have any recomendations? obviously I can't buy a new saddle but would a seat saver or something like that work, I could maybe diy something if it would help

any comments are really appreciated, thanks!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

sorry, I can't see clear enough from that photo where your seat and the saddle differentiate. Is it a dressage saddle?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I can't see enough detail either...I thought it was my eyes and age..


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

yes its a dressage saddle, so sorry about the photo, its lost quality as I uploaded it, ill try and add a clearer one


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

heres a reupload, dont have that many photos from a side view so I tried to outline where Im sitting since I have a clearer image to see from, the other one is an earlier photo, hence the leg position, but I think its clearer hopefully... sorry about the sticker, its a bit creepy I think

thanks again for your input


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

So I actually feel like your saddle is significantly too big for you. You're quite slender with shorter thighs and longer calves. This might help explain some of your position woes?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

First picture it looks like you are sitting to far back, and your stirrups look short..hard to tell still but also looks like the saddle is downhill....which will all add to your woes.

Second picture looks better, but the saddle does not look to fit you.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

I originally thought it looked like the rounder shape of a general purpose saddle rather than the straight flap of a dressage saddle. :smile:

It looks like the saddle is big and there’s lot of empty space, so you’ll have problems with balance, movement and slipping or sitting too far back. 

You should be able to sit in the lowest part /centre in the walk and trot with your leg under you so that there’s a line running straight down through your shoulder hip and ankle. 

There should be the same amount of space between you and the pommel and you and the cantle. A hands width behind you. If you slip too far back, then you’ll leg will come forward

Your knee should come to the centre of the knee roll with around two fingers width to spare, with top of your boot about a hands width above the flap so that it doesn’t catch. There shouldn’t be the large amount of empty flap. 

As for fixing it, a saddle pad might work to take up the sapce if can’t change the saddle. Ultimately, there’s still going to be the space to allow movement.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Is your horse rather wide-barreled? If your hip joints can't open enough to accommodate a wide horse, it would push your feet forward. It would be good to see how you sit on a horse that's more narrow. Trust me, as a male I notice the difference between a slim TB and a round QH. I tend to lengthen my stirrups a bit from TB to QH to give my legs more room to hang, keeping me forward in the saddle.

Another thing you can try is to stand up in the stirrups and then slowly kneel into the saddle until you make contact, rather than "sitting down". If you do that, you will always be balanced over the balls of your feet, finding a naturally balanced position in the saddle. Do it a few times and remember how that feels.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

is that a treeless saddle?


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

Caledonian said:


> I originally thought it looked like the rounder shape of a general purpose saddle rather than the straight flap of a dressage saddle. :smile:
> 
> It looks like the saddle is big and there’s lot of empty space, so you’ll have problems with balance, movement and slipping or sitting too far back.
> 
> ...


thats a bit difficult for me to visualise right now but ill try to check that when I next ride, I've always had problems with balance, I've only recently been able to sit to a full on canter so I wasn't sure if it was partly the saddle or just me... either way I can learn to overcome it, even if I need a saddle pad for a bit of help.
but what do you mean by saddle pad, like a numnah or like a seat saver? sorry Im not the best at all the tack talk!


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

tinyliny said:


> is that a treeless saddle?


yes it is a treeless dressage saddle or so I'm told, its not super deep like some dressage saddles but its defiantly deeper than most saddles I've ridden in


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

mmshiro said:


> Is your horse rather wide-barreled? If your hip joints can't open enough to accommodate a wide horse, it would push your feet forward. It would be good to see how you sit on a horse that's more narrow. Trust me, as a male I notice the difference between a slim TB and a round QH. I tend to lengthen my stirrups a bit from TB to QH to give my legs more room to hang, keeping me forward in the saddle.
> 
> Another thing you can try is to stand up in the stirrups and then slowly kneel into the saddle until you make contact, rather than "sitting down". If you do that, you will always be balanced over the balls of your feet, finding a naturally balanced position in the saddle. Do it a few times and remember how that feels.


yes she's defiantly wide, even for a chunky type cob,but Ive defiantly gotten stretchier while riding her, so it doesn't bother me.

I'm doing more stirrup less work to help with my position so hopefully that will help my stirrup length to be a bit longer (her owners smaller than me and rides with longer stirrups so it will probably help her understand me more too) but I do have a habit of pointing my toes at canter so they've been shortened to help me keep them for that, not a problem if I can canter with out them though!


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

UnhappyHacker said:


> saddle pad? do you mean like a numnah or like a seat saver? sorry Im not the best at all the tack talk!


 seat saver . I'm not up on the names either LOL. I've never used one, so i'm guessing when it comes to knowing how if it'll help. Others may have better ideas. :smile:


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

Caledonian said:


> seat saver . I'm not up on the names either LOL. I've never used one, so i'm guessing when it comes to knowing how if it'll help. Others may have better ideas. :smile:


ahh thank you, I was thinking about getting one too... it would defiantly help with filling a bit of the space in the saddle at least


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Can you post a photo of the saddle without you on it?
If the saddles designed for a larger, taller person I think its trying to put your backside into the best place it can find to put it but that leaves you with too much space to wander around in and so you're ending up too far back.
I think I'd probably trade it in for a smaller size


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

jaydee said:


> Can you post a photo of the saddle without you on it?
> If the saddles designed for a larger, taller person I think its trying to put your backside into the best place it can find to put it but that leaves you with too much space to wander around in and so you're ending up too far back.
> I think I'd probably trade it in for a smaller size


its not my saddle, I loan the horse in the pictures and her weight is always up and down so its difficult finding a saddle that fits in the first place... I don't really talk to her owner much so I wouldn't want to bother her about it, especially since she's just as small as me and must do fine in it..

heres the saddle... I thought since its so dipped it would be a dressage saddle but if not sorry for the misinformation


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

That is an interesting looking saddle, but does not look like a dressage saddle to me, more of a trail saddle, the flap looks very short...but the girth looks like a dressage setup.

Looks like a treeless set up https://www.dreamteamproducts.com/torsion-products-treeless_saddles.php


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

Golden Horse said:


> That is an interesting looking saddle, but does not look like a dressage saddle to me, more of a trail saddle, the flap looks very short...but the girth looks like a dressage setup.
> 
> Looks like a treeless set up https://www.dreamteamproducts.com/torsion-products-treeless_saddles.php


yes, sorry for saying its dressage, it is treeless since she gains so much weight, I had assumed that the only difference that would make was it being a closer contact and more malleable shape, not that much of the design to a normal saddle would have changed... but since I can't change the saddle I really need ways to make it fit better or keep my position...


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

UnhappyHacker said:


> its not my saddle, I loan the horse in the pictures and her weight is always up and down so its difficult finding a saddle that fits in the first place... I don't really talk to her owner much so I wouldn't want to bother her about it, especially since she's just as small as me and must do fine in it..
> 
> heres the saddle... I thought since its so dipped it would be a dressage saddle but if not sorry for the misinformation


The narrow size of the knee pads would suggest to me that it is intended to be ridden with lengthy stirrups.

May I just say that it's a very cute looking horse?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

UnhappyHacker said:


> yes, sorry for saying its dressage, it is treeless since she gains so much weight, I had assumed that the only difference that would make was it being a closer contact and more malleable shape, not that much of the design to a normal saddle would have changed... but since I can't change the saddle I really need ways to make it fit better or keep my position...



First question, why can't you buy a new saddle? If it is a long term loan, then having a saddle that is properly fitted to both of you is a great investment, eve if you have to sell it when and if you change to another horse, one of the frustrating realities of horse ownership/loaning.

You could try a seat saver, but not sure it is going to take up enough space.

Next what are your aims and goals when riding? If you are a happy hacker, and that is a great thing to be, as long as you are comfortable and are secure in the tack, and the mare is happy and comfortable, then I would not worry over much.

If you are taking lessons, want to improve, or have ambitions to jump, then you are going to maybe need to look at that investment in a saddle. This is one of those times that having a good trainer can help, they see you in the flesh and can make better suggestions.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I look at that saddle and see unbalanced.
Pommel high and seat low is going to put you more in the center of her back...lowest spot.
You're fighting a uphill battle every step and stride.
The horse to me also appears to be "sway-backed' of high wither and higher butt but quite a drop in between...
May be the stance, may be the ground but I think you have several issues working against you.

I also see when looking at girth placement not a straight line, but the saddle is angled back ...girth and billet should be in a straight line, this set-up is not.
This also is a reason you feel as you do...you are not balanced.
You need to be seated several inches forward of where you are based upon that saddle, that horses back and what "the package" looks like.

Aside from the saddle appearing to large for your body anatomy, it isn't the better fit for the horse either I don't believe.
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

mmshiro said:


> The narrow size of the knee pads would suggest to me that it is intended to be ridden with lengthy stirrups.
> 
> May I just say that it's a very cute looking horse?


she's a sweetheart xD



Golden Horse said:


> First question, why can't you buy a new saddle? If it is a long term loan, then having a saddle that is properly fitted to both of you is a great investment, eve if you have to sell it when and if you change to another horse, one of the frustrating realities of horse ownership/loaning.
> 
> You could try a seat saver, but not sure it is going to take up enough space.
> 
> ...



like I said her weight often goes up and down and I do mostly hack her... she is old and has atheritis In her back legs so although I can jump her its not something I want to focus on or something where I really need a specialised saddle for since it is such a rare thing (and quite low for both our sakes, she hates jumping)

also I'm only loaning her for the next year or two, then hope to move on to a much younger horse... she's also quite a weird shape, she's got a slight swayback and narrow shoulders in comparison to her belly, which used to almost break my legs when riding... also her owners very specific about the products she uses, and she's been working the best I've ever seen her so I wouldn't want to risk upsetting either of them with a new saddle.

saying that I really hope to loan a younger (greenish) horse so I want to be a better rider for that, shes taught me a lot about consistancy when fixing and preventing some of the bad habits she's got, as well as helping me improve my riding (or at least cantering, which has taken me bloody years to get any good at) so I'm willing to look into alternative options but I just don't think switching her saddle will ever be a possibility for me, not that I mind too much, it feels like a sofa




horselovinguy said:


> I look at that saddle and see unbalanced.
> Pommel high and seat low is going to put you more in the center of her back...lowest spot.
> You're fighting a uphill battle every step and stride.
> The horse to me also appears to be "sway-backed' of high wither and higher butt but quite a drop in between...
> ...


the photo of just her saddle is quite old, the girth she has sits quite far back on her and I wasn't used to that but have since corrected it... she does have a bit of a sway back but thats never really bothered me and its not as bad as some school horses I have ridden before.

since I mainly hack her I've always felt a bit more secure with the high pommel but as you say its pushing me back and at this point id rather just improve my riding (even if I don't have a saddle lol)

hopefully I can borrow a seat saver and maybe sew something onto the back to prop it up a bit more, if not ill just try and build enough muscles to hold my self in it... I don't mind the uphill battle, its always like that with her but now with the weather finally picking up and her legs feeling better in the warmth she's working better than I've ever seen her and its defiantly worth the hassle


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It looks like a treeless endurance/trekking/trail riding saddle but its a really odd design that's guaranteed to push you back against the cantle because its so high in front and sit you too far back because of where the lowest part of the seat is anyway.
I'm not at all convinced that a seat saver would help change anything because its the design that looks all wrong more than the saddle being too large.
If @unclearthur sees this I'd like to hear his thoughts on the shape of it


She's a nice gypsy cob type and her conformation is typical of the ones that probably have some welsh cob blood in them, short back (but not too short compared to some you see) with big quarters and shoulders so you do get that dipped back appearance but its not a problem for them other than finding a good saddle fit.
If you're having her on loan for a year I'd look for a good second hand saddle to buy - it might fit the next horse you have but if not you can sell it on.


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