# Splash White & Overo Test results - Surprised!



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Where did you have her tested?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

How strange but so interesting. She's definitely more than tobiano, but apparently she's got a different mutation of other white patterns that either aren't currently testable or the tests were wrong, which can happen. Strange.


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Where did you have her tested?


US Davis


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Definitely surprised,I would be retesting.Labs have known to be wrong:shock:some more so than others:-(. Those blue eyes came from overo somewhere!!:wink:


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

I gotta say I was shocked when I read them! I still am TBH- she has to have Splash or Frame surely to have the blue eyes & lack of colour!?!?! :-o

Her Sire:









Her Dam:









Neither should be "just" Tobiano, yet that is all my filly has tested positive for- I'd have thought that if BOTH parents had additional Overo genes present (as both have white on their faces) at least one pattern would be testable :shock:


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

paintedpastures said:


> Definitely surprised,I would be retesting.Labs have known to be wrong:shock:some more so than others:-(. Those blue eyes came from overo somewhere!!:wink:


Whats the procedure for re-testing? Im in NZ so courier to USA is expensive!

The email says that if I have questions to email through VGL - which I will do when I get over being a stunned mullet!:shock::wink: It's just taken me totally off guard 

Also was wondering if this has happened to anyone else & if so, what did they do?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

It looks like your filly could be a moderately expressed Sabino, but not of the type they can currently test for. I know MANY Arabians who are Sabino but they do not carry the testable Sabino 1 gene. Hoping as they do more research that these genes will have tests developed because there are many things we've yet to learn about.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The paper on splash made it clear that the geneticists involved believe there is more than three mutations that present as "splash". Testing negative for LWO AND splash with those blue eyes tells me for sure that she has an undiscovered splash gene. Sabino also has at least one more mutation they are yet to find, but I am yet to see anything that convinces me that sabino has anything to do with blue eyes. 

With out a doubt, she is tobiano and splash. She has to be something more than tobiano for a start, with face white. I don't see sabino to be honest, I see splash. Blue eyes, bottom heavy face white, crisp and clean edges.


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> The paper on splash made it clear that the geneticists involved believe there is more than three mutations that present as "splash". Testing negative for LWO AND splash with those blue eyes tells me for sure that she has an undiscovered splash gene. Sabino also has at least one more mutation they are yet to find, but I am yet to see anything that convinces me that sabino has anything to do with blue eyes.
> 
> With out a doubt, she is tobiano and splash. She has to be something more than tobiano for a start, with face white. I don't see sabino to be honest, I see splash. Blue eyes, bottom heavy face white, crisp and clean edges.



Hmmm - I have to agree with you on Sabino- I thought maybe Sabino in the beginning when I 1st started my research into patterns, but now when I look at her I don't see Sabino at all (I only had that test done to cover my bases  ). The lacing around her patches are from HZ Tobiano, as are the paw prints/cat tracks. 

If she didnt have the bright blue eyes I wouldn't be so shocked that she came back neg to all Splash genes.

Yep, I read the paper with much interest & know they feel there are other Splash genes (I suppose I should be shocked my dare to be different baby, isn't going to be stuffed into nice neat categories so easily lol  )

As she was tested at USD & Ive been told its them who are holding back some horses who look Splash but test neg, should I ask them to do the same for her? 
Is she Splash looking enough (stupid question I know, but she still has a shield & small flak patches left, even if those are caused by HZ Tobiano fighting to stay coloured)???

Thoughts please? 

I've decided to email USD later tonight or early tomorrow, when I have my head wrapped around the current results 

Is it worth having her re-tested? I thought USD would be fairly onto it & would have let me know if they felt the need to retest on account of the samples I sent them?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I see tobiano, splash and sabino. This, very much like the vast majority of Gypsies carry. We don't have overo in the breed.

Lizzie


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I see tobiano, splash and sabino. This, very much like the vast majority of Gypsies carry. We don't have overo in the breed.
> 
> Lizzie


She's Clydie/QH/Stationbred X - from memory.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I don't see any sabino in her(I'm finding this word is completely over and wrongly used due to it's popularity) - roaning I would contribute to Rabicano - but she must have a splash that isn't tested yet.
I have lots of Arabians expressing a gene that hasn't been found yet.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I wasn't even considering any roaning. I know the difference between roaning we see on some horses and a true roan. I was though, thinking of the ragged edges, which to me probably indicates some kind of sabino. Do I see a chin spot? Can't quite tell.

So to me anyway, I still think the mare shown, is tobiano, splash and sabino. The last two of types undefined yet or not available to us for testing. 

In Gypsies, I think we have probably, many types of Sabino. Some have tested pos. for sb1. Others look like sb1 but quite well might be DW. I've only seen one, maybe two Gypsies, who were sb1 homozygous and they were white. 

Lizzie.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Rabicano only causes roaning on the flank and barrel, the majority of which is completely white on this horse, so I don't think rabicano at all based on what is visible.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I agree Poseidon. I do think there was a bit of a fight here, between sabino and splash. Sabino likes to cover the eyes with colour and splash doesn't, but drops colour off higher up on the face. Both seem to have had a bit of a win here. 

Apart from sb1, I do know that several other types of sabino have been isolated and identified. However, they are not available to the public. Maybe one day.

And yes to the OP. We had a mis-identified colour result. We knew exactly what colours the stallion was, yet it came back as something we knew to be untrue. At our insistence, he company did redo it for us and it came back correctly. 

I'm still not sure about blue eyes and sabino. I do know that hundreds - maybe thousands of Gypsies, who have one or two blue eyes and obviously or probably carry sabino. The same in Mini Horses.

Lizzie


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I'm still not sure about blue eyes and sabino. I do know that hundreds - maybe thousands of Gypsies, who have one or two blue eyes and obviously or probably carry sabino. The same in Mini Horses.


And until they isolate EVERY type of splash, there is no way to know that those same horses don't have splash. We have proof already that splash can be present without white, as there is a few homozygous horses popping up that have completely solid parents (Gotlands IIRC).


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Chiilaa said:


> And until they isolate EVERY type of splash, there is no way to know that those same horses don't have splash. We have proof already that splash can be present without white, as there is a few homozygous horses popping up that have completely solid parents (Gotlands IIRC).


Absolutely Chiilaa. I'm quite sure that the vast majority of Gypsies, also are splash of one type or another.

Lizzie


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I don't think we will EVER get to the bottom of horse genetics LOL


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Oh WS, I do hope you are wrong. Maybe not everything will be known in my lifetime, but for young equine enthusiasts coming up, I can hardly imagine what will be known to them. I remember when we knew nothing of LWO, equine/canine DNA testing etc.etc. It really has been an exciting ride.

Lizzie


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

Well - Im over the shock now lol 

Haven't yet emailed USD, as I have only just got in the door & have yet to have anything to eat or drink today (its 5:10pm here) - so that's my next port of call now my babies have been taken care of 

I'll email them later tonight & ask if either retesting or adding her to the group of looks Splash horses, but hast tested positive, is the best idea - to me because she's not Frame (thank god lol), she HAS to be Splash - if she didn't have blue eyes, I probably wouldn't be so darn convinced she was Splash of some type.

Cynder has nothing other than the narrow halo/lacing edging her patches - this is common on Tobianos (I'm told), she doesn't have any roaning, roaning like your typical Sabino or Rabicano bleeding into in coloured areas- certainly none on either flank patch, nor the one chocolate spot on top of her quarters or on her shield. 
The photos may be deceiving if it looks like there is roaning anywhere, as she is a Smoky Brown (is that the turn now being used for Seal Brown + Cream now??) & the photos were taken during Autumn when she was changing colour hues from lighter to darker for winter  .

She does have a chin/lip spot tho 









I'm looking at putting her in foal to the Lion Prince (he's quite a new import & is HZ Black & Tobiano, as well as a Splash of some kind (he hasnt been tested for it but he too has 2 stunningly bright blue eyes!) SO maybe her foal will turn out HZ unknown Splash yet lol).

I'm putting my Greying, Brown Roan to Prince (or Cracker Jack, Bay also Tobiano, Splash (again not tested, but has bright Blue eyes + I know most the horses in Jacks background all have bright blue eyes, as does his sire & dam!) this yr, so will be interesting to see what she throws colour/pattern wise  
I have my fingers & toes crossed for a Seal Brown, Roan, Tobiano, Splash with Blue eyes lol


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I would use "smoky brown" to refer to a double dilute on a brown base. I usually say "brown buckskin" but most people will understand that, or "brownskin".


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> I would use "smoky brown" to refer to a double dilute on a brown base. I usually say "brown buckskin" but most people will understand that, or "brownskin".


I was thinking over the Brown terms the other day- I thinking
Brown= Seal Brown.
Brown + Cream= Smoky Brown (since they tend to have exaggerated tan appearance like Smoky blacks)
Brown + 2cream = Tawny or something along those lines as it'd make life easier.

Most people here that know about Brown use Seal then smoky as smoky brown implies a buckskin looking horse- esp given we already have Smoky Blacks & a double dilute never looks 'brown' lol


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## SplashedOvero (May 16, 2012)

From What I have Researched They Believe That there are still Undiscorved Types Of Splash Patterns.


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## Surayya (Dec 7, 2011)

Well Cynder, her Sire & Dam are all being entered into the White spotting research- Yay!  
The breeder also has Cynder's full sibling due this season- will be interesting to see what pattern that foal has


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