# Secret Sabino?



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I have a horse just like that!! He has a tall roan sock, and although bright sorrel he has some white hairs in there... well more than some. Also he has a few random white spots.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Here is a picture of mine where you can see the sock. He was long haired in this picture, and it doesn’t show any of the spots, but you get the idea.


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## InexcessiveThings (Oct 22, 2016)

You have a very cute horse! I like his somewhat unusual markings!

Both sabino and rabicano aren't uncommon in arabian horses, so either could be possible. When minimally expressed, they can be hard to distinguish and a horse can have both, to make things even more confusing. White hairs at the dock can be caused by sabino as well as rabicano, for that matter. Not every rabicano you see has a very pronounced skunk tail and heavy ticking. My own, for example, is definitely rabicano, but his white ticking is not extensive to the point that you can tell from more than a few feet away. It's densest at his flank, and covers his hindquarters, his flanks down onto his belly, and ribs in low density. I can try and get a photo if you want. 

With all that said, my guess is, however, that yours is a minimally marked sabino. He doesn't seem to have a pronounced skunk tail and markings with lacy edges or roaning are common with sabino, whereas rabicano generally affects a more specific region of the body, not the legs. Does he have any white on his lower lip? That can also be an indicator of sabino in otherwise unmarked or minimally marked horses.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

No, not sabino - you couldn't miss the markings, but possibly a rabicano. Are those white spots on him, or dust? 

Beautiful stocky Arabian. Need more like this.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Sabino can be so minimally expressed that the only visible trace is the ticking and/or facial markings that are not necessarily under the lip (chin). I'd say Sabino as rabicano is more pronounced on the body and not legs where sabino includes legs.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

QtrBel said:


> Sabino can be so minimally expressed that the only visible trace is the ticking and/or facial markings that are not necessarily under the lip (chin). I'd say Sabino as rabicano is more pronounced on the body and not legs where sabino includes legs.


Maybe you are right then. Someone said this on a forum "My TB is sabino, he has an irregular minimal hind sock, and a roan leg". But the ticking (unless that is just dust) is typically due to rabicano, but it's true he doesn't have the skunk tail.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

So much about what causes "normal" face and leg markings isn't known, though current thinking about the roan sock is that it was meant to be a normal sock and the pigment cells got confused during fetal migration.

Rabicano isn't currently testable and true Sabino is not found in Arabs. Currently W3, W15, and W19 are the testable white patterns in Arabs. If your horse has R Khasper in his pedigree then he may be a minimally expressed W3. Otherwise, he likely has some unknown "sabino-like" pattern. Researchers are finding more patterns all the time, so maybe you will have an explanation at some point. Your boy is lovely, whatever the reason for his markings.


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## theblackarab (May 2, 2018)

Thanks for all the responses! He basically was a pasture pet until we got him, broken but very green. So any history about him is pretty vague. He does have one white spot right in the middle of his lower lip!






The picture isn't the best, it's a still from a video of him doing his smile.

I plan on heading out today after exams are over, so I'll bring my trusty cannon and get some pics of the white hairs on his flank, dock and shoulder. He's always a dirty boy but I'm pretty sure they aren't dirt as they've not changed much at all in the 5 years I've had him.

If you're interested in looking and perhaps finding some clues, his sire is Noctura Cintar 
And his dam is Tiara Ameera. Here's their pedigrees: Asa Tiara Ameera Arabian
Noctura Cintar Arabian
What shocked me is how closely bred the lines all are. I'm assuming that's normal for breeding operations?! :|
From what I know he was bred and raised right here in FL.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

theblackarab said:


> his sire is Noctura Cintar
> And his dam is Tiara Ameera. Here's their pedigrees: Asa Tiara Ameera Arabian
> Noctura Cintar Arabian
> What shocked me is how closely bred the lines all are. I'm assuming that's normal for breeding operations?!


While I am sure the breeder responsible for the sire would call him "line bred," I would sure call him massively inbred!! Breeders claim line breeding "fixes" desirable traits so they "breed true," but really what its doing it taking away genetic diversity. That is rarely a good thing from an animal health standpoint.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Fimargue while there are many patterns considered sabino that are not testable the ticking in Belgians and other breeds that SB1 is not present is considered sabino. That said the pattern the ticking takes can suggest rabicano and it may be that both are present in some horses. They are learning so much about white. What my understanding has been is that ticking that concentrates along the topline (especially at the base of the tail and ribs often showing a brindle pattern) looking like a light dusting of powdered sugar or snow would be rabicano but ticking at the edges of white marking and coming from the legs up or even all over the body (extending beyond what is normal for roan and without the markers for that).


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## theblackarab (May 2, 2018)

So I've had a couple busy days but I've got some more photos from today! I forgot the good camera at home, so I did the best I could with my phone. I'm hoping these get a better idea of the white hairs clustered around his flanks and the streak going down his neck and shoulder, as well as the white hairs on his dock and chest. Basically he's speckled everywhere.


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