# Young rider, worried mom



## horselessmom

Hello, dear horse people! I'm following my daughter's passion for horseback riding, and I'm not quite sure where we are going. She is almost 10. She took some Western lessons on and off when she was 8 and 9 (only walk / leisure, not trotting), and then she started weekly English lessons in October of 2011 at Place #1 (some group, some private). 

In January 2012 we switched to Place #2--a very different approach, lots of initial time on a lunge line, and she is loving it. 

I'm not a horse person, and it is very difficult (okay, impossible) for me to determine how well she is doing. All I can see is that her heels are mostly down, and that her hands are low. Since the lessons are private, I don't even see other children her age and level. 

Also, this instructor teaches very differently that the others we've seen. For example, there's no emphasis on the correct diagonal at this point (she said this will be done later), and she started cantering from the 2-point position. 

After 7 lessons of cantering on the lunge-line (weekly lessons), she had her first independent cantering lesson last week, and it was also her first "jumping" lesson. I'm worried she's moving too fast, without having developed a good seat, but my knowledge on this is sketchy, no matter how much I read about this stuff, I remain very visually ignorant--everyone on a horse looks gorgeous to me. 

Her instructor seems to be pleased, but I also wonder whether she just wants us to lease a horse sooner, rather than later.

I would appreciate honest feedback. My daughter is very self aware for her age, and said she wants me to learn the truth, but that she will read only positive comments (in other words, she doesn't want to hear too much negativity right now.)

Her instructor seems to be pleased, but I also wonder whether she just wants us to lease a horse sooner, rather than later. We are not exactly rich, and even a half lease is a big stretch on our budget. 

I entertain myself during her lessons by videotaping. :lol:

Trotting (posting trot) progression since November 2011 to April 2012: 



 
First independent canter, April 2012 (lesson 8 at Place #2): 



 
Trotting over cross poles, April 2012 (lesson 8 at Place #2): 



 
Thank you!


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## CLaPorte432

Your daughter is a natural! Really! She looks really good on those horses, even in her first couple of lessons. She's progressing nicely and seems very confident in the saddle. I obviously don't know for sure since I don't know the trainer or your daughter, but I don't think she is moving too fast at all. How quickly or slowly someone progresses completely depends on the child. If they are more timid, they'll go at a slower pace, but your daughter seems confident in the saddle and capable of everything the trainers have been throwing at her.

You should be very proud of her. And what an amazing mommy you are to allow your daughter to participate in something that she loves. 

The only things I'm seeing that she needs to improve on are her diagonals (which like you said, the trainer would prefer to add later) and she seems to have busy hands while she's posting. They move a lot and when she rises up, her hands rise with her. But that's something that will improve as she rides. She really does a great job. 

As for the leasing...I'd hold off and just continue taking lessons on lesson horses for a year or so before taking on such a big commitment into the horse world. With leases, even half leases, if the horse comes up lame or with some costly vet bills, there's a chance you'll be paying for half, if not all of it. Horses are expensive. Take lessons as long as she can and then take the plunge only when the two of you are very ready and prepared, not just for the riding aspect of it, but for the daily care and vet/farrier costs that could be included too.


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## horselessmom

CLaPorte432: 

Thank you for taking the time to read and watch! I am very proud of her--she is not only interested in riding, but also in horsemanship, in relating to horses, and I'm learning a lot from her. It amazes me how confident she is around these large animals, and is not afraid to walk into stalls to brush them and pick their feet. It seems that she truly understands them. 

It is of course very pleasant for me to hear that she is also doing reasonably well with the riding. I can see that she's confident, but as I said, I can't really say whether she is good at the physical part of riding--her position, timing, etc. I know that she couldn't figure out the diagonal thing at Place #1, and instinctively didn't like looking down, because that was unbalancing her and the horse. And even after all these lessons, I can't determine whether she's on the correct diagonal or not. These horeses move too fast for me! :shock:

Should the trainer be focusing on her hands at this point, or is there some kind of a skill progression that places the hand issue later in the sequence?

The lease part scares me. We live 1 hour away from this place. I can't really see myself driving her there 3 times a week, especially as I have 2 other young children who are not at all interested in spending hours at cold and stinky barns. We'd like to keep this trainer, though, as my daughter has such a great rapport with her, and likes her style of instruction. She is much more interested in natural horsemanship and learning to ride bareback and hands free, than in showing and it seems that this trainer can at least work on those skills. 

As far as I understand, leasing a horse at one place, and having lessons at the other won't really work, right? 

Well, in any case, I have a wise child, who said she wants to be very comfortable cantering and jumping before she wants to lease, so at least there's no pressure from her. She gets to volunteer 15 hours a week at her very first barn, where she briefly rode Western, and she's happy with just being with horses, and it is only 5 minutes from home. 

Sorry for the long posts. I don't know anyone irl who is able to talk horses with me. It is such an adventure for us, but I just wish I was more knowledgeable and was able to guide her better.


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## LostDragonflyWings

I could not view the first video, but for iust starting out she looks really good. One thing I would recommend she change is to take her feet out of the stirrups a little more. The stirrup should be more so at the ball of her foot, not up against the heel of her boot. This change will help her keep her heels down more and help with her leg stretching down and for better use of her lower leg. I could not really see the jump (too far and bad angle) but it looked pretty good from what I could see. Tell her to keep up the good work!


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## horselessmom

LostDragonflyWings: 

Thank you for the tip regarding her feet. I will tell her. 

I know the angle / distance for the jump is really poor, and the lighting there is not the best either. Do you think it would be really odd to ask the trainer whether I could sit in the middle of the arena? I'd like to be able to have a better video of her jumping. Though the trainer changes things a lot from lesson to lesson, and I'm not even sure they'd be jumping tomorrow (though my daughter is hoping, of course.)


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## LostDragonflyWings

horselessmom said:


> LostDragonflyWings:
> 
> Thank you for the tip regarding her feet. I will tell her.
> 
> I know the angle / distance for the jump is really poor, and the lighting there is not the best either. Do you think it would be really odd to ask the trainer whether I could sit in the middle of the arena? I'd like to be able to have a better video of her jumping. Though the trainer changes things a lot from lesson to lesson, and I'm not even sure they'd be jumping tomorrow (though my daughter is hoping, of course.)


I do not think it would be odd to ask if you can go to the middle of the arena to get better videos. As long as you are not in the way of what they are doing and your daughter does not mind, I can not see where the trainer would mind (though some might... but you do not know unless you ask).


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## horselessmom

LostDragonflyWings said:


> I do not think it would be odd to ask if you can go to the middle of the arena to get better videos. As long as you are not in the way of what they are doing and your daughter does not mind, I can not see where the trainer would mind (though some might... but you do not know unless you ask).


Thanks! I will see how it goes tomorrow. I know I'll feel self-conscious asking. I'll play it by ear.


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## hemms

One of the most helpful things for my own continued llearning is to watch video of myself. Maybe her coach will even go over sOme of it with her.


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## tinyliny

I would maybe not go into the arena if it makes your daighter self conscious.
Her boots have heels, right?

she is doing super well. I am not sure I would do an jumping yet, personally, but I dont' do jumping, so dont know what is typical for when a child starts jumping.

What a good mom you are for supporting her here. I know it is expensive, but the lessons learned carry well beyond the arena. really.


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## Kayty

What a lovely little rider she is!
Like the others above, I don't think that the instructor is moving her too quickly. As long as her balance is good, it's great for her to be cantering and doing little cross rails on her own. 
To help her hands when she's trotting, ask the instructor to get her to hang onto either a monkey strap (oh sh!t strap when you use it on a young horse haha) or the velcro tabs of the saddle cloth. This will give her something to balance on, as well as being aware of how much her hands are wanting to move.
I've been riding for many years, have trained horses, done well in competition etc, and I still hold the velcro of my saddle cloth once in a while to make sure my hands are staying quietly - it's definitely a wake up call to how much your hands want to move without you noticing!


As for leasing - HOLD OFF! There is absolutely no need for her to lease a horse. If you're not confident around horses, and she's only small and not experienced, it will end up being a lot of money waster. At the moment, I really think that regular lessons are the best thing to do. Horses are expensive, lots of problems come up, and they can be dangerous. The longer you can keep her happy with just her lessons, the better


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## thesilverspear

I had six or seven YEARS of lessons from approximately age 7-13 before going the whole lease/ownership route. No harm in holding off. Like yourself, my parents were (and are) completely unhorsey and I had to be a more or less independent unit when I got my own horse. I keep seeing fellow liveries at stables where the parents aren't horsey and the kid's been in lessons for about six months. Disaster.


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## horselessmom

tinyliny said:


> I would maybe not go into the arena if it makes your daighter self conscious.
> Her boots have heels, right?
> 
> she is doing super well. I am not sure I would do an jumping yet, personally, but I dont' do jumping, so dont know what is typical for when a child starts jumping.
> 
> What a good mom you are for supporting her here. I know it is expensive, but the lessons learned carry well beyond the arena. really.


Thanks!

I don't think it would make HER self-conscious, but it might make ME self-conscious! :lol: I wouldn't go if she had any issues with it.

She has proper riding boots, as the Place #1 required very specific attire.

I was a bit surprised they did this first jumping lesson, as her cantering is not very confident yet, but maybe the trainer will just keep her trotting over the poles for longer, to just let her get used to the idea. 

Her lesson is tonight, and she's very excited.


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## horselessmom

Kayty said:


> What a lovely little rider she is!
> Like the others above, I don't think that the instructor is moving her too quickly. As long as her balance is good, it's great for her to be cantering and doing little cross rails on her own.
> To help her hands when she's trotting, ask the instructor to get her to hang onto either a monkey strap (oh sh!t strap when you use it on a young horse haha) or the velcro tabs of the saddle cloth. This will give her something to balance on, as well as being aware of how much her hands are wanting to move.
> I've been riding for many years, have trained horses, done well in competition etc, and I still hold the velcro of my saddle cloth once in a while to make sure my hands are staying quietly - it's definitely a wake up call to how much your hands want to move without you noticing!
> 
> 
> As for leasing - HOLD OFF! There is absolutely no need for her to lease a horse. If you're not confident around horses, and she's only small and not experienced, it will end up being a lot of money waster. At the moment, I really think that regular lessons are the best thing to do. Horses are expensive, lots of problems come up, and they can be dangerous. The longer you can keep her happy with just her lessons, the better


Thanks you! I will see if I can talk with the trainer tonight about the hands. 

The topic of a lease came up, when I asked the trainer if there were opportunities for my daughter to spend more time in the saddle, as her lessons are only 30 min, while her group lessons at Place #1 were 1 hour. 

When I look at her riding compared to her friends doing other sports, many at this age practice 6-8 hours a week, if not more. I know she'd love to spend more time in the saddle, but the only options seem to be the 30 min lessons (if I book more of them a week? That's $40 per 30 min of riding), or some kind of a lease. But you're right, until she herself is older and comfortable with horses, a lease doesn't seem like a great idea. 

I think that we will try to have her two lessons a week for a couple of weeks this summer, as a treat, but we can't do this for the entire year, unless we find yet another riding place, within 20 or some minutes from us. 

So maybe I'm not right to compre it with other sports, as it seems that most average, horse-less people wouldn't be doing more than 1-2 lessons per week, at this stage.


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## thesilverspear

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselessmom

thesilverspear said:


> I had six or seven YEARS of lessons from approximately age 7-13 before going the whole lease/ownership route. No harm in holding off. Like yourself, my parents were (and are) completely unhorsey and I had to be a more or less independent unit when I got my own horse. I keep seeing fellow liveries at stables where the parents aren't horsey and the kid's been in lessons for about six months. Disaster.


Thanks, yes, I agree. As long as she gets to volunteer with horses, she's happy (and is learning a lot, even without riding them).


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## thesilverspear

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thesilverspear

I hate posting from phone. I had written that the difference between horse riding and other sports is that it involves a 1000lbs animal requiring a lot of knowledge to train and maintain. Twice per week lessons is a good idea. While her friends in other sports may practice 6 hours per week, remember that soccer balls don't require vet bills and they don't eat or buck you off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselessmom

thesilverspear said:


> I hate posting from phone. I had written that the difference between horse riding and other sports is that it involves a 1000lbs animal requiring a lot of knowledge to train and maintain. Twice per week lessons is a good idea. While her friends in other sports may practice 6 hours per week, remember that soccer balls don't require vet bills and they don't eat or buck you off.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I do see what you're saying, of course! It is just she'd like to spend as much time with her passion as her gymanst friend, for example. But I guess the time she spends with horses, even when she doesn't ride, still "counts." We will keep on doing what we can (afford) and then take it from there, I guess. It helps to know that most kids her age don't necessarily ride more (unless they have horsey parents, own horses etc). 

Thanks for conquering your mobile device to post here!


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## pinkjumperboots

Your daughter ride beautifullly! Shes really talented and a natural! as for moving to quickly i dont think so, she seems confident in what she is doing. Id love to see more videos al i can say if she is confeident keep pushing her. ....and that i wish i was that confident at 10.


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## ~*~anebel~*~

The thing about riding, is even myself as a competitive rider, I only will get 6 hours a week in with one horse. To ride more I need more horses. This is where is becomes really important to pick up other methods of building fitness. The trainer at my barn swims, I do hot yoga and weights and many people run. It is good to get at least 4-5 hours of extra exercise in outside of riding every week. For a lot of people this is barn chores 

Your daughter is a good little rider and as others have said, is likely not getting pushed along too fast. She does post a little high and that is really the only thing I noticed in the videos.

Good luck!


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## horselessmom

pinkjumperboots said:


> Your daughter ride beautifullly! Shes really talented and a natural! as for moving to quickly i dont think so, she seems confident in what she is doing. Id love to see more videos al i can say if she is confeident keep pushing her. ....and that i wish i was that confident at 10.


Thanks!


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## horselessmom

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> The thing about riding, is even myself as a competitive rider, I only will get 6 hours a week in with one horse. To ride more I need more horses. This is where is becomes really important to pick up other methods of building fitness. The trainer at my barn swims, I do hot yoga and weights and many people run. It is good to get at least 4-5 hours of extra exercise in outside of riding every week. For a lot of people this is barn chores
> 
> Your daughter is a good little rider and as others have said, is likely not getting pushed along too fast. She does post a little high and that is really the only thing I noticed in the videos.
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you! That's a good point that riders are limited by what their horses can do. So maybe 30 min per week isn't that bad for a beginner. 

I figured out how to zoom at her jumps, and got a new video from today: 



 Pretty much the same as last week, but a better angle, and one zoomed-in sequence. 

I also like how her instructor varies her warm-ups--feet out of stirrups, and the like: 



 
I think she was doing better with her hands when the instructor reminded her, but then reverted back to moving them more. She tells me that she has so many things to think about, and hard to do everything at once. 

Thanks for watching.


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## hemms

I wondered about the high posting... perhaps lowering her stirrups will reduce her bounce? This is from a dressage keener, though... perhaps her stirrup height is ideal for jumping.


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## horselessmom

hemms said:


> I wondered about the high posting... perhaps lowering her stirrups will reduce her bounce? This is from a dressage keener, though... perhaps her stirrup height is ideal for jumping.


During her first lessons at Place #2, the instructor kept telling her to rise lower, and she was doing it, but now it seems they are not focusing on this, for some reason. 

The instructor knows I'm not horsey, so I'd feel really odd giving her suggestions on what to focus. :lol:

I appreciate your feedback, because I'm trying to learn (for myself) how to evaluate riders. I've been watching videos her in the critique forum, trying to see what the others are seeing while critiquing. On a very minor level it is sort of making sense.

I just realised that the videos look better (bigger) when viewed directly on Youtube.


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## Oxer

can i say something about the leasing? 
I started riding when i was 5. my mother was a single mom and knew nothing about horses. but after a couple years of me drawing horses on EVERY paper in the house, talking about horses for hours at the dinner table, and becoming emotionally wrecked when i wasn't able to take my weekly lesson because of occasional rain or whatever else, my mom decided to move forward with a lease. This allowed me to get used to the same horse every single week... and to learn something other than just riding. Because a lot of kids don't learn early on that the riding is the EASIEST part of being with horses. It's everything else that takes responsibility, passion, and dedication. So, in my opinion, i think a lease option for a child that really has no intentions of ever walking away from horses, is a GREAT option for both parent and child to learn the ins and outs of everything involved with the sport. Especially if there is a responsible, helpful, and professional trainer involved in ALL aspects of the lease.


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## LostDragonflyWings

I started riding by taking western lessons for a month or so, then switched to english. I only took english lessons for a few months before I started leasing. It is a big commitment both financially and in regards to responsibility, but I still took regular lessons, so in my case it worked out. After leasing for a while (I believe 6 months or less), the owner's lied and said they had somebody coming to buy our lease so they gave us first option to buy. We bought her and 8 years later we still have her. I was 12-13 when we bought her.

I think your daughter has the right idea on becoming a little more comfortable cantering, etc. before leasing. There is no reason to rush into a lease as long as she gets to ride in her lessons. While leasing allows for extra rides to practice what she learned in her lesson, for the time being lessons seem like the best option. Besides, it won't be long before you get completely wrapped up in the horsey world... leasing.. buying... showing!!


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## horselessmom

Oxer said:


> can i say something about the leasing?
> I started riding when i was 5. my mother was a single mom and knew nothing about horses. but after a couple years of me drawing horses on EVERY paper in the house, talking about horses for hours at the dinner table, and becoming emotionally wrecked when i wasn't able to take my weekly lesson because of occasional rain or whatever else, my mom decided to move forward with a lease. This allowed me to get used to the same horse every single week... and to learn something other than just riding. Because a lot of kids don't learn early on that the riding is the EASIEST part of being with horses. It's everything else that takes responsibility, passion, and dedication. So, in my opinion, i think a lease option for a child that really has no intentions of ever walking away from horses, is a GREAT option for both parent and child to learn the ins and outs of everything involved with the sport. Especially if there is a responsible, helpful, and professional trainer involved in ALL aspects of the lease.


What a wonderful mother you have! I so do see your point of view, and I'm getting used to the idea that we will need to eventually lease a horse, and probably not at 14, as we initially thought, but maybe at 11-12. I do know, however, that we wouldn't be able to lease at the place where she rides, as it is 1 hour away. There's no way for her to be there even 3 times a week (for a half lease). 

There's a place 5 min from us, where she spends weekeneds volunteering, and they do leases, but their horses are mostly trained western. But again, I'm not sure whether she can take lessons at one place, and lease at another. Lots for me to learn. 

I'm also hoping that as she's getting so much barn experience at the age of 9, that maybe at the age 11 she will be able to be really useful to someone, and maybe we will be able to find some kind of a lease arrangement with an elderly owner. I'm giving myself 1.5-2 years to figure this all out. :lol:


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## horselessmom

LostDragonflyWings said:


> I started riding by taking western lessons for a month or so, then switched to english. I only took english lessons for a few months before I started leasing. It is a big commitment both financially and in regards to responsibility, but I still took regular lessons, so in my case it worked out. After leasing for a while (I believe 6 months or less), the owner's lied and said they had somebody coming to buy our lease so they gave us first option to buy. We bought her and 8 years later we still have her. I was 12-13 when we bought her.
> 
> I think your daughter has the right idea on becoming a little more comfortable cantering, etc. before leasing. There is no reason to rush into a lease as long as she gets to ride in her lessons. While leasing allows for extra rides to practice what she learned in her lesson, for the time being lessons seem like the best option. Besides, it won't be long before you get completely wrapped up in the horsey world... leasing.. buying... showing!!


It seems like you got tricked into buying your horse, but no regrets, right? :wink: I'm learning here on this board that weekly lessons might be just enough for us (not perfect, but that's what we can do for now) and then we will do a couple of weeks of doulbe lessons in the end of the summer. 

I'd really hate to switch to a new trainer, but we will keep our eyes open for maybe something as great but closer to our house. Who knows? This will make the lease idea much more doable. 

If one leases a horse, is this a commitment for the entire year, or is it possilbe to lease or half lease a horse for a few months?


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## LostDragonflyWings

horselessmom said:


> It seems like you got tricked into buying your horse, but no regrets, right? :wink: I'm learning here on this board that weekly lessons might be just enough for us (not perfect, but that's what we can do for now) and then we will do a couple of weeks of doulbe lessons in the end of the summer.
> 
> I'd really hate to switch to a new trainer, but we will keep our eyes open for maybe something as great but closer to our house. Who knows? This will make the lease idea much more doable.
> 
> If one leases a horse, is this a commitment for the entire year, or is it possilbe to lease or half lease a horse for a few months?


You could part lease, half lease, or full lease. Sometimes they can go month to month, but I would think it would be more typical to have a contract for like a 6 month commitment.

Yes, we were tricked into buying her so quickly, but it was totally worth it. We were already attached to her and a great team, so there is no way we could have said no. 
Her owners were not the most honest people... looking back at everything.

I am actually considering leasing her out for beginners to help with saving up for boarding bills to possibly bring in another horse. We will see how that goes though...

I know multiple factors play into deciding where to ride, where to take lessons, etc., but I will say that if your daughter likes her current trainer and is doing well and improving, it would be important to try to stick with that trainer. I have gone through a handful of trainers over the years, some better than others, and have finally found the perfect one... and I have been riding over a little over 8 years! Every trainer doesn't work for everybody, but once you find a good one it's great.


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## horselessmom

LostDragonflyWings said:


> You could part lease, half lease, or full lease. Sometimes they can go month to month, but I would think it would be more typical to have a contract for like a 6 month commitment.
> 
> Yes, we were tricked into buying her so quickly, but it was totally worth it. We were already attached to her and a great team, so there is no way we could have said no.
> Her owners were not the most honest people... looking back at everything.
> 
> I am actually considering leasing her out for beginners to help with saving up for boarding bills to possibly bring in another horse. We will see how that goes though...
> 
> I know multiple factors play into deciding where to ride, where to take lessons, etc., but I will say that if your daughter likes her current trainer and is doing well and improving, it would be important to try to stick with that trainer. I have gone through a handful of trainers over the years, some better than others, and have finally found the perfect one... and I have been riding over a little over 8 years! Every trainer doesn't work for everybody, but once you find a good one it's great.


We will need to find someone like you locally . Someone who might be busy with college or wants to get another horse, and who would appreciate a kid who cleans the stalls, brushes and massages the horse, and gets the horse some exercise. Only I suspect there are more willing kids, than there're horses :lol:. She works hard every weekend at the barn, but so do 5 or 6 other girls, and I don't think they will be getting any subsidies, even if one free ride from time to time--there are just too many willing girls. 

Right now we think that her current trainer is fantastic for her, so that's why we travel there, instead of taking lessons 15 minutes from us. We are already hearing that "she is not that good" about the trainer, but we are not sure what are the reasons for the dislike. They could be exactly the reasons that we like her for. :wink: 

It has been a progression for us. My daughter did like quite a lot, loved even, the trainer in Place #1, but after having just one lesson with her current trainer, she knew the difference. The first one was a lovely person, but the way she was teaching wasn't clicking as much with my daughter. 

I didn't know about the part lease option. If half lease is 3 times a week, what's the part lease?


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## LostDragonflyWings

horselessmom said:


> We will need to find someone like you locally . Someone who might be busy with college or wants to get another horse, and who would appreciate a kid who cleans the stalls, brushes and massages the horse, and gets the horse some exercise. Only I suspect there are more willing kids, than there're horses :lol:. She works hard every weekend at the barn, but so do 5 or 6 other girls, and I don't think they will be getting any subsidies, even if one free ride from time to time--there are just too many willing girls.
> 
> Right now we think that her current trainer is fantastic for her, so that's why we travel there, instead of taking lessons 15 minutes from us. We are already hearing that "she is not that good" about the trainer, but we are not sure what are the reasons for the dislike. They could be exactly the reasons that we like her for. :wink:
> 
> It has been a progression for us. My daughter did like quite a lot, loved even, the trainer in Place #1, but after having just one lesson with her current trainer, she knew the difference. The first one was a lovely person, but the way she was teaching wasn't clicking as much with my daughter.
> 
> I didn't know about the part lease option. If half lease is 3 times a week, what's the part lease?


I only ever heard of half or full lease, but have been checking online recently and have been seeing part leases available too. On one ad I saw...part lease would be 1-2 times a week. Half lease would be 2-3 times a week. Full lease would be 4-5 times a week. The amount of days could be changed up, but that is just an example of what I saw. Usually full lease would be 6-7 days a week... but 4-5 seems better for the horse, as they need days off too, especially depending on the level they are being ridden.

I have never leased out a horse before so am a little concerned if that would be a good way (in my case) to sustain a good income to cover board of a new horse. I do not want to full lease her out 6-7 days a week, but could lease her out to one person 4-5 days a week, or lease her out to two people each at just a few days a week each (maybe 2 each).

Yes, you will find that with trainers and clients. I have not liked trainers that others just love to use and I have liked trainers who people have stopped using. Whatever works for you and your horse is best. Especially for beginners, it is most important that the trainer is safe.


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## LostDragonflyWings

Also in my case, I would want to be there when the people leasing are there. Mainly because I am over protective (haha!), but secondly because I would offer a free "lesson" at every ride.... especially for beginners.


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## horselessmom

LostDragonflyWings said:


> Also in my case, I would want to be there when the people leasing are there. Mainly because I am over protective (haha!), but secondly because I would offer a free "lesson" at every ride.... especially for beginners.


Great idea! As your free students start recommending you to others, you will end up making money this way as well. 

I hope you find someone you feel comfortable with to lease your horse.


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## LostDragonflyWings

horselessmom said:


> Great idea! As your free students start recommending you to others, you will end up making money this way as well.
> 
> I hope you find someone you feel comfortable with to lease your horse.


Thanks!


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## davidsonknollfarm

Hi, I used to be a riding instructor for lots of young kids. She looks great and more importantly you are at a good riding facility. It looks safe and the horses she is riding look wonderful. Really a riding instructor is only as good as the horses she has to teach on. They are worth their weight in gold. Seriously. 

So lets talk position. For a young kid she looks great. You want me to get picky, don't post so high. She only has to get out of the saddle a inch or so. Her hands look great and her head is up and she has good posture. As mentioned earlier, her feet are a little to far in the stirrups. Right on the ball of her feet and the stirrup should rest on the outside of her pinky toe. Seriously, don't get annual about his kind of stuff or pressure her b/c then it won't be fun. 

No leasing -- lessons lessons lessons. at least a year or two. 

You can't ride without stirrups too much. As long as she has a safe mount the instructor should have her ride without stirrups a lot -- sitting, posting and 2-point. Yup it hurts. No pain no gain. LOL

Also, the canter in 2-point is normal. Often when the kids start cantering they bounce up and down on the horses back and it isn't pleasant for the rider or the horse. 

Important is that she learns to care for the horse too -- groom -- pick feet -- lead -- care for and even clean stalls. Don't just drop her off. Riding is just a teeny weeny part of the whole horse thing. 

Why don't you YouTube some riding lessons with your daughter. I bet you could find some cool stuff.


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## Cinder

Your daughter seems to be a natural! Honestly she has better EQ than a lot of riders I see, even ones many years older than her. What really sticks out to me is her posting- it seems a bit jerky (best word I could find to describe it), remind her to relax and breathe. 

Some things could be tweaked, but honestly, at this point balance and stability are probably the most important things. Heels could be lower from what I saw, but that comes with time. 

It's good to hear she is so passionate and that you are so willing to support her!

One thing I would definitely recommend is watching videos on youtube of people riding, or even watching other lessons at your barn if you have time. This will help you develop an eye for what you are looking for, generally, in riding. 

I would also tell you to take one or two lessons for yourself if you have the money. It will help you understand what your daughter has to do, plus it's fun! You seem to be very good about this but I can tell you that it is very frustrating when my parents just don't GET things about riding (mostly that it is difficult)! 

If she is clicking with her instructor I wouldn't switch right now. Trust me when I say it is difficult to learn when you always seem to be getting used to the way a new barn does something! Of course you may eventually switch, but I feel it's important (especially for a young rider) to be able to be used to a place and call it their "barn home", at least for a while.

I'm going to talk about the leasing thing. I've been riding for about seven years now- horse camps up until about two years ago, when I took lessons every other week, and then a while after that when I switched to lessons every week. I'm going to start leasing this May. The excitement I feel is beyond words.

I'm going to say that right now, you definitely don't need to lease. Let her have the experience of riding many different horses, which is hugely helpful. 

Also, I don't think she's moving too fast. It really depends on the kid AND the instructor. Some instructors simply have different teaching styles than others. 

As for her not getting diagonals, for many riders it simply takes time. For me, it REALLY helped to watch people working on diagonals both on the ground or on a horse (but not doing anything). She's going to need to look down real quick for a while, but it takes just a second and as my old instructor used to say "If you have it, you have it, if you don't, you don't." As she gets more experience with diagonals, she'll start being able to "feel" them (kind of, it's hard to explain), and really, if you think about it, it's pretty much a 50/50 chance even if you have no idea what diagonals are- remember: "Rise and fall with the leg on the wall."

Please update us on how she is progressing, I'd love to hear more!


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## horselessmom

davidsonknollfarm said:


> Hi, I used to be a riding instructor for lots of young kids. She looks great and more importantly you are at a good riding facility. It looks safe and the horses she is riding look wonderful. Really a riding instructor is only as good as the horses she has to teach on. They are worth their weight in gold. Seriously.


On of the reasons I like this instructor is that the horses belong to her, and it is very clear that she knows their personalities, and loves them. In the Place #1 horses were more like vehicles to a group of rotating instructors. The horses are much more responsive too--lower heads for bridle, and listen to her cues much better. 



> So lets talk position. For a young kid she looks great. You want me to get picky, don't post so high. She only has to get out of the saddle a inch or so. Her hands look great and her head is up and she has good posture. As mentioned earlier, her feet are a little to far in the stirrups. Right on the ball of her feet and the stirrup should rest on the outside of her pinky toe. Seriously, don't get annual about his kind of stuff or pressure her b/c then it won't be fun.


If her position is not too bad, I'm not going to nitpick, I will just trust that the instructor will correct in order of importance, or something like this. When she first started riding, I watched so many Youtube videos with her, and came to the conclusion that she had to post higher--fully standing up in the stirrups.  There are too many subtle variations in those youtube videos, even those that claim to be instructional. I'm not qualified to figure this out. I will mention the feet and posting to her, though, as it seems the concensus here! 



> No leasing -- lessons lessons lessons. at least a year or two.


Could you elaborate more? Do you think one lesson a week is enough, in general, for her to progress? I just wish it were an hour a week. My one complain about the trainer is that when we started, she said that the lessons will be less than an hour. I interpreted this as 40-45 min. Well, she meant exactly 30 minutes, and sometimes it is only 25 minutes (yes, I do time :lol. The instructor, though, doesn't check her time, so I think she has some kind of progresson in mind, for each lesson. 



> You can't ride without stirrups too much. As long as she has a safe mount the instructor should have her ride without stirrups a lot -- sitting, posting and 2-point. Yup it hurts. No pain no gain. LOL


Thanks! My daughter really wants to ride without stirrups, so she's excited about that part. 



> Also, the canter in 2-point is normal. Often when the kids start cantering they bounce up and down on the horses back and it isn't pleasant for the rider or the horse.


Thank you, good to know. After we started at Place #2, we had one "good bye" lesson with the instructor at Place #1, and she acted as though starting cantering in 2-point committing a sin. 

Her current instructor didn't instruct her yet to give the horse the specific canter cues (one leg back, or something like this, you guys know what I'm talking about :lol. So far she's cantered on her own only once, and she was supposed to just squeeze / kick from trotting. At the Place #1, during her very last lesson, she was on a lungeline, and was asked to do the proper cue, and to sit in the saddle, and she couldn't quite get the horse to canter. Am I right to assume that her current instructor is just more gradual and wants to build up on small successes? Her way is not entirely incorrect, right? 



> Important is that she learns to care for the horse too -- groom -- pick feet -- lead -- care for and even clean stalls. Don't just drop her off. Riding is just a teeny weeny part of the whole horse thing.


Yes, she's learning all of it! She even volunteers in a place where she can't have lessons now, to just clean the stalls and brush the horses! 



> Why don't you YouTube some riding lessons with your daughter. I bet you could find some cool stuff.


We do this regularly, but often we see incorrect things, and it is said that they are correct, so it is confusing. But fun too.


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## horselessmom

Cinder said:


> Your daughter seems to be a natural! Honestly she has better EQ than a lot of riders I see, even ones many years older than her. What really sticks out to me is her posting- it seems a bit jerky (best word I could find to describe it), remind her to relax and breathe.


Her instructor reminds her to breathe!  Especially when she was learning the sitting trot without stirrups.





> Some things could be tweaked, but honestly, at this point balance and stability are probably the most important things. Heels could be lower from what I saw, but that comes with time.
> 
> It's good to hear she is so passionate and that you are so willing to support her!


I will watch how her instructor deals with it. I have a feeling she might devote a lesson at a time to particular issue. If she doesn't, I will talk to her and try to figure out what her plan is. 



> One thing I would definitely recommend is watching videos on youtube of people riding, or even watching other lessons at your barn if you have time. This will help you develop an eye for what you are looking for, generally, in riding.


She's watching a lot of videos. In the barn we don't always have a lesson before or after us, so it is not always possible. 



> I would also tell you to take one or two lessons for yourself if you have the money. It will help you understand what your daughter has to do, plus it's fun! You seem to be very good about this but I can tell you that it is very frustrating when my parents just don't GET things about riding (mostly that it is difficult)!


I'd feel that the money would be wasted on me! :lol: I'd rather put the money in her lessons. I did go on one trail ride with her in a Western saddle. I do get that's it is difficult! I'm terribly uncoordinated, so I'm constantly amazed with what she can do, and how fearless she is. 

I did tell her that when she has her own horse, and her own barn, I will take lessons from her. 



> If she is clicking with her instructor I wouldn't switch right now. Trust me when I say it is difficult to learn when you always seem to be getting used to the way a new barn does something! Of course you may eventually switch, but I feel it's important (especially for a young rider) to be able to be used to a place and call it their "barn home", at least for a while.


That's a good point. It is good for her to identify with the place. For now, I can't imagine a better instructor--she talks to my daughter about horses, explains things, and it is obvious to me that she likes her. I want my kid to be liked . 



> I'm going to talk about the leasing thing. I've been riding for about seven years now- horse camps up until about two years ago, when I took lessons every other week, and then a while after that when I switched to lessons every week. I'm going to start leasing this May. The excitement I feel is beyond words.


Congratulations on finally leasing! I'm smiling for you. 



> I'm going to say that right now, you definitely don't need to lease. Let her have the experience of riding many different horses, which is hugely helpful.


I didn't think about needing to ride different horses. Great point.




> Also, I don't think she's moving too fast. It really depends on the kid AND the instructor. Some instructors simply have different teaching styles than others.
> 
> As for her not getting diagonals, for many riders it simply takes time. For me, it REALLY helped to watch people working on diagonals both on the ground or on a horse (but not doing anything). She's going to need to look down real quick for a while, but it takes just a second and as my old instructor used to say "If you have it, you have it, if you don't, you don't." As she gets more experience with diagonals, she'll start being able to "feel" them (kind of, it's hard to explain), and really, if you think about it, it's pretty much a 50/50 chance even if you have no idea what diagonals are- remember: "Rise and fall with the leg on the wall."


Thanks! I asked the instructor about this, and she said that soon she will be able to feel it. For now the instructor doesn't feel that it is important. I'm not sure what to think about it, but I just hope she knows what she's doing. My gut feeling is that when her balance and posting are better, the glancing down part will come easier. She does know that she has to go with the outside leg, and tries to pick out on the videos whether she's doing it right or not. 




> Please update us on how she is progressing, I'd love to hear more!


I promise not to post weekly lessons, so you guys don't grow to hate me , but I will come and post her lesson #20. In 10 weeks or so.


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## LostDragonflyWings

We don't mind weekly updates! 

Also, horselessmom, I just sent you a PM.


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## Cinder

Yes, actually...weekly updates would be wonderful! I love hearing about lessons and how people are coming along.


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## horselessmom

You guys are too sweet! I personally love weekly updates that track someone's progress, but I didn't want to impose. If you say weekly updates, I can do weekly updates!  I will need to learn to take better videos. Unfortunately the lighting at the arena is always poor, but maybe I can do more zoom-ins.


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## RoosHuman

What a great little rider!! I agree with the above posters, as long as the lesson horses are well behaved, she should be fine progressing at this rate. Such fun.


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## smrobs

Wow, your daughter is a very talented young rider and if she sticks with it, will be a force to be reckoned with. I agree with pretty much what everyone else has said, she doesn't look like she's being pushed too fast and she is doing amazingly well for no more than she's ridden. There are a few little things like the motion of her hands and the jerky movements of her body that will smooth themselves out with more time and experience. Heck, I was a teenager before I really woke up and started to think about what my body was doing without someone correcting or reminding me constantly LOL.

I agree on holding off on the lease as well. Not only for the reasons that everyone else has mentioned, but she's still a kid. We all know that our childhood passions sometimes fade as we turn into teenagers and start thinking more about boys and friends and sports and cars. Stick with the lessons for as long as you can and learn everything you can about the care, cost, risk, training, handling, etc of horses that you can in the mean time. That way, if/when the time comes that you are both ready for leasing or ownership, you are more prepared.


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## GreySorrel

I want to add my kudo's to you and your wonderfully cute daughter and yes, she is a natural! I love hearing how other mothers, while they may have some trepidation, encourage their children to pursue a dream and get out there and learn themselves and help. You deserve a pat on the back! 

You had me remembering when I had my first bad fall when I was racing back to the barn and my dad had told me, do not race the horses, well I did. Hit a hole and my dad's horse fell and trying to regain his footing didn't do it and came down on me, my leg stuck under him. Thought after that my riding days were done, as I not only went against someone I held in very high regard, but I thought I hurt my dad's horse too and he loved that Saddlebred greatly.


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## horselessmom

RoosHuman said:


> What a great little rider!! I agree with the above posters, as long as the lesson horses are well behaved, she should be fine progressing at this rate. Such fun.


Thank you! The trainer seems to have a different horse for different skills. Her first cantering was on a very safe pony, we were told, who stops when the rider is out of balance. Lunge work was mostly done on a big horse, and trotting is mostly on yet another pony.


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## horselessmom

smrobs said:


> Wow, your daughter is a very talented young rider and if she sticks with it, will be a force to be reckoned with. I agree with pretty much what everyone else has said, she doesn't look like she's being pushed too fast and she is doing amazingly well for no more than she's ridden. There are a few little things like the motion of her hands and the jerky movements of her body that will smooth themselves out with more time and experience. Heck, I was a teenager before I really woke up and started to think about what my body was doing without someone correcting or reminding me constantly LOL.
> 
> I agree on holding off on the lease as well. Not only for the reasons that everyone else has mentioned, but she's still a kid. We all know that our childhood passions sometimes fade as we turn into teenagers and start thinking more about boys and friends and sports and cars. Stick with the lessons for as long as you can and learn everything you can about the care, cost, risk, training, handling, etc of horses that you can in the mean time. That way, if/when the time comes that you are both ready for leasing or ownership, you are more prepared.


Hey, hey, hey, my kid is not turning into a teenager who is into boys and cars! :lol: My kid is going to ride horses forever and ever. :twisted: 

I'm doing my best learning with her--not my first choice for a hobby, but it is very interesting and inspiring where our kids lead us.


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## horselessmom

GreySorrel said:


> I want to add my kudo's to you and your wonderfully cute daughter and yes, she is a natural! I love hearing how other mothers, while they may have some trepidation, encourage their children to pursue a dream and get out there and learn themselves and help. You deserve a pat on the back!
> 
> You had me remembering when I had my first bad fall when I was racing back to the barn and my dad had told me, do not race the horses, well I did. Hit a hole and my dad's horse fell and trying to regain his footing didn't do it and came down on me, my leg stuck under him. Thought after that my riding days were done, as I not only went against someone I held in very high regard, but I thought I hurt my dad's horse too and he loved that Saddlebred greatly.


Aw, poor you! You must have felt awful. :hug:Were you badly injured as well? 

Which reminds me, at what point should I get my daughter a protective vest? I saw some kids who jump wear them, but most don't. What's the general approach to those?


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## freia

She looks balanced and confident, with good control. If she's comfortable and happy with the pace, then it probably isn't too fast. Every kid is different.

I wish someone had let me progress "too fast". I started riding when I was 4, on my mom's horse, with her teaching me the basics. When I was 8, she let me ride on my own and called it good. Everyone said I was a natural and figured I was fine learning on my own. I trail rode all over with my friends, and we learned on the fly from each other (sound dangerous?). I looked at the kids who got lessons and were jumping and competing and wished I could learn to do that too. So, since nobody would teach me, I taught myself (sound even more dangerous?). I read every horse book I could get my hands on. When I was 14, I finally got lessons, and I gobbled up every second like I was starving. I couldn't move fast enough. Teach me! Teach me! Please! Oh, what I would have given to have had an instructor who challenged me when I was little and malleable like this instructor does with your daughter. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if your daughter is ready to move forward, it's a whole lot better that she do it with an instructor than on her own. Because if she loves to ride, she's going to move forward one way or another. 
I understand you concern. When I saw my 7-year-old walk into the arena for her 1st lesson leading a 16hh horse, I got the willies, but then I saw the giant grin on her face and her straight, proud back when she got him to trot, and I knew she was where she belonged. Plenty of kids get hurt playing soccer or basketball too. Just make sure the instructor emphasizes safety and that your daughter feels comfortable. If she expresses any fear or hesitation about going to her lessons, dig deeper.


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## horselessmom

freia said:


> She looks balanced and confident, with good control. If she's comfortable and happy with the pace, then it probably isn't too fast. Every kid is different.
> 
> I wish someone had let me progress "too fast". I started riding when I was 4, on my mom's horse, with her teaching me the basics. When I was 8, she let me ride on my own and called it good. Everyone said I was a natural and figured I was fine learning on my own. I trail rode all over with my friends, and we learned on the fly from each other (sound dangerous?). I looked at the kids who got lessons and were jumping and competing and wished I could learn to do that too. So, since nobody would teach me, I taught myself (sound even more dangerous?). I read every horse book I could get my hands on. When I was 14, I finally got lessons, and I gobbled up every second like I was starving. I couldn't move fast enough. Teach me! Teach me! Please! Oh, what I would have given to have had an instructor who challenged me when I was little and malleable like this instructor does with your daughter. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if your daughter is ready to move forward, it's a whole lot better that she do it with an instructor than on her own. Because if she loves to ride, she's going to move forward one way or another.
> I understand you concern. When I saw my 7-year-old walk into the arena for her 1st lesson leading a 16hh horse, I got the willies, but then I saw the giant grin on her face and her straight, proud back when she got him to trot, and I knew she was where she belonged. Plenty of kids get hurt playing soccer or basketball too. Just make sure the instructor emphasizes safety and that your daughter feels comfortable. If she expresses any fear or hesitation about going to her lessons, dig deeper.


Thank you for your reply.

I think it is rare that we are happy with our own childhood opportunities. Only natural, I think. :hug:

My daughter has devoured the Pony Pals series, and there's nothing that she'd want more than to ride trails with her friends. Yes, what you did was dangerous, but there's always someone out there who idealises that kind of childhood. 

I know what you mean about injuries, I'm trying to be at least somewhat relaxed about it--one can get hurt anywhere, and as long as she's doing what she loves, this is an acceptable risk for me. 

She's fearless in terms of heights and high speeds, has always been this way, to my surprise, as both my husband and I are physically much more timid, even if we were involved in serious sports as children. 

This is an adventure, that's for sure.


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## Cinder

> Which reminds me, at what point should I get my daughter a protective vest? I saw some kids who jump wear them, but most don't. What's the general approach to those?


That depends on you and your daughter. Many people I know don't own a protective vest, but it is a great safety item to have. What height is she jumping at now? I'd say once she gets to higher than three feet, or starts doing cross country, it might be a good investment. Or you could also wait until she gets a little older, since she is still growing and protective vests aren't cheap. 

Some other safety things...

The MOST important safety item right now (in my opinion) is a well-fitted helmet. If you are currently borrowing from the barn, it is definitely worth the money to go out to a tack shop and have your daughter fitted for a helmet. The condition of helmets gets worse over time so if your daughter still fits in it after five years or so, it's safe to get her a new one. Any fall that she hits her head, new helmet. 

I didn't really get a chance to see your daughter's boots, but if they aren't ones specifically made for riding, make sure they have a one inch heel and a smooth bottom (or a very minimal tread).


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## freia

Horselessmom, have you considered taking some lessons yourself?
-A- your daughter might think it's really cool
-B- you'll see why your daughter looks so happy. Girls love their horses - no matter what age we are.
As involved and interested as you seem to be, you might really enjoy it.


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## WesternBella

I agree, In my opinion; there is nothing more annoying then when you have to explain something to a non-horse person 

There are so many good things that come out of taking lessons:
-You will understand what your daughter is doing/talking about.
-There is someone to help your daughter when there is nobody else.
-You can ride with her if she is ever alone.
-You an actually follow what's going on at shows/competitions.
-It's great excersize/fun for you.
-You can become more involved with her riding life.

I suggest you try a couple lessons, my mom did along with her older friend, they both love it & her older friend even part boards now & is at the barn everyday with her daughter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oxer

I'm with Cinder on the riding gear. With jumping, she especially needs a good helmet. And for boots, the first time a horse steps on your foot, is the one day you don't want to be wishing you had bought better boots!


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## horselessmom

Cinder said:


> That depends on you and your daughter. Many people I know don't own a protective vest, but it is a great safety item to have. What height is she jumping at now? I'd say once she gets to higher than three feet, or starts doing cross country, it might be a good investment. Or you could also wait until she gets a little older, since she is still growing and protective vests aren't cheap.
> 
> Some other safety things...
> 
> The MOST important safety item right now (in my opinion) is a well-fitted helmet. If you are currently borrowing from the barn, it is definitely worth the money to go out to a tack shop and have your daughter fitted for a helmet. The condition of helmets gets worse over time so if your daughter still fits in it after five years or so, it's safe to get her a new one. Any fall that she hits her head, new helmet.
> 
> I didn't really get a chance to see your daughter's boots, but if they aren't ones specifically made for riding, make sure they have a one inch heel and a smooth bottom (or a very minimal tread).


Thanks! I don't think she will be jumping that high any time soon, so we will hold off on the vest. Her helmet is really a really good one as she couldn't tolerate how the cheaper helmets fit her (she is very sensitive this way), and she does have proper riding boots. Our first riding place was very appearance focused, and the kids were required to have special riding equipment, rather than simply leggings and rubber boots.


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## horselessmom

freia said:


> Horselessmom, have you considered taking some lessons yourself?
> -A- your daughter might think it's really cool
> -B- you'll see why your daughter looks so happy. Girls love their horses - no matter what age we are.
> As involved and interested as you seem to be, you might really enjoy it.


I won't be taking riding lessons. 1. I have a really bad back, and 2. I can't afford it. But I'm staying involved, she does know that I care.


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## horselessmom

WesternBella said:


> I agree, In my opinion; there is nothing more annoying then when you have to explain something to a non-horse person
> 
> There are so many good things that come out of taking lessons:
> -You will understand what your daughter is doing/talking about.
> -There is someone to help your daughter when there is nobody else.
> -You can ride with her if she is ever alone.
> -You an actually follow what's going on at shows/competitions.
> -It's great excersize/fun for you.
> -You can become more involved with her riding life.
> 
> I suggest you try a couple lessons, my mom did along with her older friend, they both love it & her older friend even part boards now & is at the barn everyday with her daughter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'd love to be able to ride with her one day. Not sure whether my back will allow it, and right now I can't afford the lessons for myself anyway. Maybe some times in the future I will give it a try.


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## LostDragonflyWings

I have a Flex-Rider protection vest I want to sell, if you decide to buy one. It was only used once and in great condition.

I, personally, use a Tipperary for eventing, because I didn't like the Flex-Rider, but the Flex-Rider is better for protection.


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## horselessmom

LostDragonflyWings said:


> I have a Flex-Rider protection vest I want to sell, if you decide to buy one. It was only used once and in great condition.
> 
> I, personally, use a Tipperary for eventing, because I didn't like the Flex-Rider, but the Flex-Rider is better for protection.


So kind of you to offer!  However, I'm quite certain that shipping from the US to Canada, especially a bulky item, will be almost as much as a new vest here. When she is jumping hire, I will start looking for a second-hand vest.


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## WesternBella

If you ever get the chance, go for it! Your bank account will never be emptier but you will never be happier!

My family lives paycheck to paycheck but it's worth it because I've never been so happy or motivated! 

Oh & I wish I had some old stuff to sell to you for cheap, but I don't. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselessmom

WesternBella said:


> If you ever get the chance, go for it! Your bank account will never be emptier but you will never be happier!
> 
> My family lives paycheck to paycheck but it's worth it because I've never been so happy or motivated!
> 
> Oh & I wish I had some old stuff to sell to you for cheap, but I don't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're so kind! Maybe next year. I hurt my back several months ago, and am still working on strengthening. I'm still quite sore after an hour drive that takes me to my daughter's barn, so my back goes out of balance easily. I hope this is not a long term problem, and that I can solve it with physio and regular exercise, but right now it seems that it is recurrent--a better week, and then a relapse. I think it is exacerbated by driving. I need to look into lumbar supports or something like this.


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## WesternBella

Ugh, I HATE back problems :/ I have a bad back but probably not as bad as your's  

Hope you figure everything out & make a recovery, back pain SUCKS 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselessmom

WesternBella said:


> Ugh, I HATE back problems :/ I have a bad back but probably not as bad as your's
> 
> Hope you figure everything out & make a recovery, back pain SUCKS
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry to hear about your bad back. 

I know this is unlikely to influence you, because none of the warning influenced me :wink:, but make sure you do your back exercises daily. I had a so-so back for years. I could always fine-tune it with a week or two of easy stretches and some strengthening. The moment it got better, I'd get lazy. I thought that this would never change, and I didn't mind the status quo. I thought I would always be able to fix it with some exercises. Well, not any more. 

I strained it badly while snow shovelling. As I was shovelling, I was even fully aware that I was straining it. The worst part, I didn't even have to shovel--my husband was home, he could've helped me out. But the weather was great, the air smelled so fresh, and I just thought I'd finish the driveway, even if in some pain, and then rest my back later, not a big deal. Well, a huge deal.

Take care of your back now. You can do it! Daily.


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## LostDragonflyWings

horselessmom said:


> So kind of you to offer!  However, I'm quite certain that shipping from the US to Canada, especially a bulky item, will be almost as much as a new vest here. When she is jumping hire, I will start looking for a second-hand vest.


Haha! I didn't even notice where you were located. :lol:


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## newhorsemom

The videos of your daughter riding were a pleasure to watch. She is really doing great and she rides with enthusiasm! I too am a mother of a horse crazy just-turned-11 year old so I know where you are coming from. It's been the best money we've ever spent, besides I hear retirement is completely overrated! Anyway, we've been at this a while now and actually bought dd a horse (thought I could do it cheap - what was I thinking??). I would advise you keep taking lessons for at least a full year, if not more, to really see where this is headed. At this stage you don't know what discipline she will gravitate towards or what type of rider she will become and if you make a commitment you want to be sure it is the right choice. From watching your daughter ride and reading your posts I'd think you're in it for the long haul! It really is an adventure and there is nothing like watching your child work with horses. Enjoy every minute of it, it's one of the best mommy benefits out there! 

Please keep us posted on her progress - pictures and more videos are good!! Have fun!


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## horselessmom

newhorsemom said:


> The videos of your daughter riding were a pleasure to watch. She is really doing great and she rides with enthusiasm! I too am a mother of a horse crazy just-turned-11 year old so I know where you are coming from. It's been the best money we've ever spent, besides I hear retirement is completely overrated! Anyway, we've been at this a while now and actually bought dd a horse (thought I could do it cheap - what was I thinking??). I would advise you keep taking lessons for at least a full year, if not more, to really see where this is headed. At this stage you don't know what discipline she will gravitate towards or what type of rider she will become and if you make a commitment you want to be sure it is the right choice. From watching your daughter ride and reading your posts I'd think you're in it for the long haul! It really is an adventure and there is nothing like watching your child work with horses. Enjoy every minute of it, it's one of the best mommy benefits out there!
> 
> Please keep us posted on her progress - pictures and more videos are good!! Have fun!


Thanks! I'm glad to see someone else with a "mom" in the username!  Is your horse with you, or boarding? It seems that here a half-lease is pretty much the same as monthly boarding. But then, of course, the level of responsibility is different. But I'm glad I thought about boarding as an option, because for some reason I was thinking that we needed to move to the country to buy a horse! 

This is a good point about waiting until she settles on a discipline. I can't even figure all of the disciplines myself.  

This is the part that still confuses me: Does the word "show" refer to only hunter / jumper or to any event where you take your horse to compete? 
Is hunter / jumper the same as "show jumping?" I'm pretty clear on the rest of the disciplines, but the word "show" and the way it is used, confuses me. 

I think as far as kids' sports go, horses is definitely the most enjoayble for the parent!


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## newhorsemom

Yeah, us "horse-crazy-kid-moms" gotta stick together!! I really enjoy hearing about other moms with similar minded girls. We board our horse at a private backyard barn about a mile from our house, which is unique because we don't live the country or a horsey type area. It's a great set up because there is an arena on the property so my dd has a safe place to ride and work the horse. It is all self care so every morning before school we are at the barn feeding breakfast (only takes an extra 5-15 minutes) and my daughter couldn't be happier unless the horse was in her own backyard. 

A horse show can be any type of competition. We belong to 4-H and they have performance shows that focus mainly on western and huntseat(english) riding as well as hunter/jumper shows, gaming shows, driving shows, and dressage shows. I'm sure your trainer could advise you if/when your daughter may want to show. Shows can be exhausting but they are great fun. My daughter shows in the 4-H shows and a few dressage (non 4-H) shows and I think my favorite part is seeing her make friends with other "horsey" kids at the 4-H shows or coming out of a dressage test saying "wow! that was sooo much fun - I really want to do it again" without even knowing how she placed in the class. She just loves it all.


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## horselessmom

newhorsemom said:


> Yeah, us "horse-crazy-kid-moms" gotta stick together!! I really enjoy hearing about other moms with similar minded girls. We board our horse at a private backyard barn about a mile from our house, which is unique because we don't live the country or a horsey type area. It's a great set up because there is an arena on the property so my dd has a safe place to ride and work the horse. It is all self care so every morning before school we are at the barn feeding breakfast (only takes an extra 5-15 minutes) and my daughter couldn't be happier unless the horse was in her own backyard.
> 
> A horse show can be any type of competition. We belong to 4-H and they have performance shows that focus mainly on western and huntseat(english) riding as well as hunter/jumper shows, gaming shows, driving shows, and dressage shows. I'm sure your trainer could advise you if/when your daughter may want to show. Shows can be exhausting but they are great fun. My daughter shows in the 4-H shows and a few dressage (non 4-H) shows and I think my favorite part is seeing her make friends with other "horsey" kids at the 4-H shows or coming out of a dressage test saying "wow! that was sooo much fun - I really want to do it again" without even knowing how she placed in the class. She just loves it all.


Your seems to be so perfect and your daughter sounds wonderful. The place where my daughter volunteers is 4 miles away (10 min drive), and it also sounds doable in the future to either lease there or board. 

Thank you for explaining the show concept. At her first barn the girls in her former class are doing their first show next weekend. At the current barn they want more confidence and progress before doing any shows, it seems. I like the second arrangment better.  

We are looking into 4H. She was part of one group this year, but the horse leader ended up being sick a lot, or simply not available, and we never knew when we had a lesson and when we didn't. A total nightmare, as we had to drive for 1 hour to get there, and often they would forget to notify about a cancellation. Needless to say, it didn't go well. And now they have a judging day in 2 weeks, and I'm trying to teach her all the details of conformation :lol:. I'm not even sure what will be expected, and how a knowleadgeable person would prioritise the information. I have a 50 page booklet. We will be looking at the "Critique my horse" forum, and hopefully we can learn something. I already know more than I could ever imagine about horse conformation, but mostly theory and diagrams. When I look at a live horse, they look perfect to me no matter what! 

We might switch to another 4H group, a little bit further away. But maybe at least they will have a well running program.


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## cakemom

I, by the way, am in the same boat, horse crazy kid (with a horse crazy mom). It's scary at the beginning. I remember when she first got thrown, broke a 2x6 fence board with her back, I was about done...here we are 4 years later still at it though, and she still grins when she's in that saddle.


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## newhorsemom

Boy Cakemom, sounds like your daughter didn't mess around for her first fall! Not an easy way to start. It's been a while since my daughter has fallen off and I know she's due, I just hope it's not a bad one. I'd prefer she have a bruised ego over a bruised body!


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## ridingismylife2

I loved reading this thread! 
Brought back so many memories from when I started riding when I was 4-5.
Your daughter looks like a natural and great little rider.
Kudos to you for letting her do what she has a passion for.
I wish my parents would have filmed me when I was starting out because I would love to be able to watch them now after 15 years of riding.


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## churumbeque

Honestly you are going to get many different opinions and advice on the internet. She is progressing nicely and I wouldn't tell her to do anything. That is for her instructor to do and she doesn't need the distraction.

Lots of riders do not get the diagonal right away so that is common. I see people showing on the wrong diagonal.
I personally would just do lessons when you can and money permits and do not lease at this time. That way you are not commited to traveling as often and take so much time away from other obligations. Maybe something more convenient will come up at a later date and be more benificial.
I would keep my connection at the closer stable also. She may get to ride horses for free once she is more experienced. 

Good Jr riders are hard to come by and can get paid to show and ride horses for people.


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## jody111

Watching those vids you cn see your daughters progress especially in the rising trot one...

I think you have a good instructor - I think you daughters is progressing really well - And also dont have an issue with her doing the little trot poles...

def if you are worried about leasing dont let them pressure you into it - theres a ton of hidden costs that you wont even realise until you own one...

Your a good mum for taking so much time to get involved - and you obviously are taking an effort to know what she is learning


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## horselessmom

Thank you, again, for all the replies and suggestions!  I've been reading these forums like crazy (should've done this long ago), and I'm more confident now in terms of knowing how she's doing, and can evaluate her lessons a little bit better. So overall, feeling a little bit less like a fish out of water, which is good. My path now is to trust the trainer (agree with the above poster), and not to second guess her choices (though I might still post about them here!)

She had a great lesson today. No jumping, because the horse she was riding gets very excited when he sees the jumps being set up, and he wouldn't be good for her level right now. She worked on trotting and a little bit sitted canter, and on doing circles and serpentines. It was a full, intense lesson, and she loved every minute of it. She loves that every lesson is different and she gets to try doing different things. 

I think I see a little bit of difference between the very first time she tried sitting the canter, and the second time, a few minutes later. 

I'm uploading the videos right now, so I will post 1 or 2 later tonight.


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## horselessmom

Sitting canter at the very end, very bumpy: 



 
And a little bit better after a few minutes of transitions: 



 
There's not much of the sitted canter, the trainer had her do this for only very short periods of time. Maybe because my daughter wasn't very successful at it, the trainer wanted to have a longer build-up to it? 

Well, in any case I was able to follow the lesson much better, after reading this forum. You guys are the best!


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## LostDragonflyWings

I enjoy watching the videos of her riding. She looks like she is having so much fun and she seems so invested in her new sport.


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## Cinder

It seemed like she was improving in the second video! Sitting the canter can be tricky (and it depends a lot on the horse), so the fact that the trainer didn't have her do a lot of it isn't odd.

I'm glad you can follow her lessons better!


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## LynnF

I haven't read through all of the other posts because I don't have a lot of time so if I repeat something I apologize. I just want to say that your daughter is doing very well, there are a few position flaws that I notice but those are normal for somebody at her stage of riding and I am sure the instructor will work with her on them as she progresses farther. I do not think that the instructor is pushing her too fast, some kids progress faster than others based on their natural ability and balance. At this stage of the game she is doing very well and should be proud of herself. 
I have to say I would have loved to have a mom like you when I was younger, one that was interested in learning and supportive of everything!


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## horselessmom

LostDragonflyWings, Cinder, LynnF: thank you for watching and for the feedback!  I had a chance to talk to the trainer a little bit, and thanks to this board, I felt more comfortable asking questions! Yay!

The trainer said that on the lunge line her seat was exceptianally good, and that now she's adjusting to coping with more things to do, as she's riding independently, and it was expected that her position would deteriorate. It is only her 3rd lesson off the lungline--they really spent a lot of time on the line (6 or 7 lessons), including hands-free canter, and a lot of feet out of the stirrups exercises.


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## Hidalgo13

Your daughter is doing extremely well for her level and age and I think you have a very competent instructor.  She is patient and makes her work on a lot of little, but important things. She is the exact opposite of my current trainer (who I am leaving due to incompetence). ><

And good for you for trying to be so active and supportive in all of this! I wish my mom was half as interested in my lessons.


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## horselessmom

Hidalgo13 said:


> Your daughter is doing extremely well for her level and age and I think you have a very competent instructor.  She is patient and makes her work on a lot of little, but important things. She is the exact opposite of my current trainer (who I am leaving due to incompetence). ><
> 
> And good for you for trying to be so active and supportive in all of this! I wish my mom was half as interested in my lessons.


Sorry to hear about your instructor. After her instructor #1 (which both of us thought was great back then), and watching so many lessons on youtube, I can appreciate her current instructor even more. She's extremely patient and positive, and can be very firm when needed (which I observed in another lesson, when a rider got scared.) That's why we drive for 1 hour there. Not ideal, but for now it seems like it is worth it. 

I think part of my interest is because I never even thought about horses before, so this is like a window that openned for me--wow, horses! :lol: It is all fascinating to me on many levels, and I do have my own selfish interest. I support her brother's lego obsession, and buy him lego and magazines, and carefully examine every model that he creates, but I'm not watching hundreds lego videos on youtube, and not posting on lego forums (yet? :lol. So when I drive her to ther barn, and try to learn about horses and riding, it is not 100% altruistic. There's something for me in it as well. :wink:


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## chevaliernr

Your daughter looks wonderful, and kudos to you for being so amazingly supportive. 

It sounds like you're worried that your daughter isn't getting enough horse time in, but there's nothing wrong with once a week lessons for now, especially since you said she gets more horsey time volunteering. I wouldn't worry too much about the shorter lessons with the privates either - she obviously doesn't get as much saddle time, but there's far more one-on-one instruction.


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## horselessmom

chevaliernr said:


> Your daughter looks wonderful, and kudos to you for being so amazingly supportive.
> 
> It sounds like you're worried that your daughter isn't getting enough horse time in, but there's nothing wrong with once a week lessons for now, especially since you said she gets more horsey time volunteering. I wouldn't worry too much about the shorter lessons with the privates either - she obviously doesn't get as much saddle time, but there's far more one-on-one instruction.


Thanks!  That's reassuring. She does prefer 1:1 instruction, even if the lessons are shorter. Now it turns out she gets to ride a little bit during her volunteer hours as well, though she choses a Western saddle there. 

This is her last week's lesson: 



 
And today: 



 




 
They don't seem to be working on sitting canter, but maybe it will just take her longer to do it properly. She's loving this trainer, and every lesson is different and exciting for her.


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## RoosHuman

It seems like they have great lesson horses!! I think that she is in good hands, and having tons of fun!


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## horselessmom

RoosHuman said:


> It seems like they have great lesson horses!! I think that she is in good hands, and having tons of fun!


Thanks! What is considered a good lesson horse?


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## Hidalgo13

> They don't seem to be working on sitting canter, but maybe it will just take her longer to do it properly. She's loving this trainer, and every lesson is different and exciting for her.
> ​


Some trainers decide to teach the sitting canter right away, others teach two point and wait until the rider has more experience; therefore a better balance and feel for the horse's movement. It's easier to learn it then, (and also much easier to learn 2 point in generala).  Your daughter is looking great! I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple years she was winning a few ribbons at some local shows.


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## Cinder

> Thanks! What is considered a good lesson horse?


Well, for a younger, inexperienced rider, you'd be looking for a "schoolmaster". Basically, schoolmasters are dead broke and usually bomb proof, but they're often also a lot more than that. 

However, once a rider gets more experienced, you start looking for a lesson horse that's more of a challenge. Then, the definition of a "good" lesson horse can change wildly, and depends on the rider's preferences. For instance, I generally prefer an energetic but not crazy horse. Not dead-sided but not crazy sensitive, not spooky, with decent gaits and a little bit of a personality. Some lesson horses just go around like a blob.

EDIT: To me, in the first video, it kind of looks like she's in a half-seat or something like it and not two-point. I might be wrong though!


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## horselessmom

Hidalgo13 said:


> Some trainers decide to teach the sitting canter right away, others teach two point and wait until the rider has more experience; therefore a better balance and feel for the horse's movement. It's easier to learn it then, (and also much easier to learn 2 point in generala).  Your daughter is looking great! I wouldn't be surprised if in a couple years she was winning a few ribbons at some local shows.


Thanks. I do like this approach, as my daughter was overwhelmed by the way her old place approached canter. Nice to know that it is done this way as well.


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## horselessmom

Cinder said:


> Well, for a younger, inexperienced rider, you'd be looking for a "schoolmaster". Basically, schoolmasters are dead broke and usually bomb proof, but they're often also a lot more than that.
> 
> However, once a rider gets more experienced, you start looking for a lesson horse that's more of a challenge. Then, the definition of a "good" lesson horse can change wildly, and depends on the rider's preferences. For instance, I generally prefer an energetic but not crazy horse. Not dead-sided but not crazy sensitive, not spooky, with decent gaits and a little bit of a personality. Some lesson horses just go around like a blob.
> 
> EDIT: To me, in the first video, it kind of looks like she's in a half-seat or something like it and not two-point. I might be wrong though!


Thank you for explaining this to me.

The trainer haven't used the "half seat" term, but she does encourage her to sit lower when she does the two-point. So maybe that's it.

This is from today's lesson. They did a lot of cantering.


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