# Any way a 12 hh stud can live cover a 16 hh mare?



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> Or if the little guy could just stretch and cover her on his own?


 
Where there is a will...........there IS a way..LOL


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

God I hope that's true. He's such a cute and polite little stud that I think he would make fantastic babies and not having a stud fee is just awesome lol.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

a friend of mine had an A mini (I think A - the smaller size) that she bred to a 16 hand QH. They did a live cover, they made a "ramp" for him. It was made out of a huge pile of packed dirt, they backed her up to him. The first time it didn't take, the second time it did. The mini had excellent confirmation and would have made a darling pony if bred to a mare that was less confirmationally challenged then the one they used....


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> a friend of mine had an A mini (I think A - the smaller size) that she bred to a 16 hand QH. They did a live cover, they made a "ramp" for him. It was made out of a huge pile of packed dirt, they backed her up to him. The first time it didn't take, the second time it did. The mini had excellent confirmation and would have made a darling pony if bred to a mare that was less confirmationally challenged then the one they used....


 
lol...i would love to see a picture of that foal:shock:


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I might have an old picture I'll look around!


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## Snowkicker (Dec 23, 2009)

I have a friend who breeds Draft mules that uses the dirt ramp method. So far he has had three little mules born using that method.

I also wanted to warn you. I bred a 13 hand pony mare to a 14 2 hand paint stud. The baby is already 14 hands and not quite two yet. So much for a sport pony he will most likely be over 15 hands at this rate. He was huge when he came out of the mare. There are always genetic surprises when crossing breeds.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Yea I'm not worried about size but hoping for a pony. If it's a cob x TB small horse though it would still make a really cute children/small adult mount. I'm going for a short stirrup mount with the dad's temperament, mom's athletic ability and both their conformation. Hopefully it works out that way haha! There's a little bank at their place we are gonna try I think...I just wanted to see if it was something that had been done safely before =)


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

friend has a just barely 14 hand arab stud who covered her 17.2 hand arab mare. He was an old pasture stud so he did it without any help. Just put the two together for a while lol. He was notorious for niping and bumping her into a ditch to make her shorter to mount. Had quite a few nice babys out of the pair lol.

As said above....where there is a will there is a way...and when it comes to studs an mares....there is ALWAYS a will. lol.

Then again... when poor little TJ did get a short mare he was in love with her. He would mount her just cause he could and lay on her without breeding. and when they did breed he actually took his time. Not typical of a stud. But when your to short to properly mount your typical 17.2 hand mate....I guess you take your time to enjoy the shorter girls lol.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

HAHAHAHA Pidge. I wish there were natural depressions in the pasture but it's super flat. We're going to have to attempt to hand breed and we aren't sure if he's done that before. We will give it a go though...with her backed up to the bank if she kicks she will just hit dirt so it's kinda a good thing overall IMO. We will try to hand breed then turn them out together to try to "seal the deal" so to speak and cover our bases. If this does go I will post pictures of each of them and maybe of the actual event haha.


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## centrestableswendy (Dec 21, 2008)

Not to be rude, but your last sentence scares me a little. You say you'd rather not breed than spend a lot of money on this "little project". Breeding ANY animal is not a little project. If you don't have everything worked out before hand, and have the money set aside in the event of an emergency, maybe it's best you don't breed your mare. Your desired end result is a happy and healthy mom and baby, and without the proper finances and facilities to do that, it's probably best not to.


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## Peetz (Mar 14, 2010)

centrestableswendy said:


> Not to be rude, but your last sentence scares me a little. You say you'd rather not breed than spend a lot of money on this "little project". Breeding ANY animal is not a little project. If you don't have everything worked out before hand, and have the money set aside in the event of an emergency, maybe it's best you don't breed your mare. Your desired end result is a happy and healthy mom and baby, and without the proper finances and facilities to do that, it's probably best not to.


I think she meant little as in the size of the stud! Not the size or importance of the mission.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Sorry I meant that I have no desire to shell out the same amount of money to breed to this stud as I would if I just paid the stud fee and got some shipped pony semen from a more recognized stud as I can AI myself. I didn't mean that I didn't want to pay for the pregnancy and the baby I just meant that I didn't want to shell out a lot of money for that particular stud but he's got good conformation and a good personality and I wouldn't mind breeding to him if I didn't have to pay a stud and booking fee, plus the expense of the AI kit etc. Hope that clears everything up.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

My professor's donkey covered his 17 + HH hanovarian mare. I only wish I had been there to see it, no one knows how it happened but 11.5 months later out popped a tiny little warmblood mule, SURPRISE!!


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I bet that was one HECK of a surprise!! What did he do with it? I'm sure it was one cute, athletic mule haha!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

They're pretty adapt little animals. Shay-la owned a 13hh Welsh stud and he had zero problems covering every one of her mares, from 14 - 15hh. 

Elaine bred one of her 16hh+ Warmblood mares to a little Welsh stud, and they actually used the barn. Elaine had an additional section built on her barn, and it was a dirt aisle. They actually dug a trench for the mare to stand in, while the stud remained on the cement aisle of the old barn and he managed just fine!

The foal got big though :lol: His name is Pik Sun and I'm darn sure he's close to 16hh himself now! Third horse down:

Elaine Banfield Equine Services


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

I'm going sunday to look at the stud again. I will take tons of pictures!! He's more welsh cob style and my mare is more dainty TB so I definitely think he will add some substance to her whether they throw ponies or small horses. The market for well conformed youngsters is up and I have had people beg me to breed her and then they'd take the youngster off my hands. So I'm definitely considering this!! I will keep you posted.


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## centrestableswendy (Dec 21, 2008)

With all the unwanted horses in this world, you're going to breed a mare that has a nasty temperament with a backyard stud pulled from auction. Doesn't that kinda make "rescuing" the stud from auction a mute point? The market for large ponies is not good around here at all. There are $35,000 large ponies with a mile-long show record and papers going for under $10,000.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

centrestableswendy said:


> With all the unwanted horses in this world, you're going to breed a mare that has a nasty temperament with a backyard stud pulled from auction. Doesn't that kinda make "rescuing" the stud from auction a mute point? The market for large ponies is not good around here at all. There are $35,000 large ponies with a mile-long show record and papers going for under $10,000.


 

i have to agree...sorry OP....there are so many people giving away great horses for practically nothing you could probably buy a foal for a lot cheaper....neither sire nor dam have a show record that you have mentioned and it would just make another cross breed (not saying there is anything wrong with grades...just there are already so many good ones needing homes....)


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## welshies rule (Feb 7, 2010)

um little welshies of that size are welsh mountain ponies or welsh section A 

Good luck to the wee man!


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> HAHAHAHA Pidge. I wish there were natural depressions in the pasture but it's super flat. We're going to have to attempt to hand breed and we aren't sure if he's done that before. We will give it a go though...with her backed up to the bank if she kicks she will just hit dirt so it's kinda a good thing overall IMO. We will try to hand breed then turn them out together to try to "seal the deal" so to speak and cover our bases. If this does go I will post pictures of each of them and maybe of the actual event haha.


Even without depressions...they will get it done! If TJ couldnt coax his mare into a ditch he would mount up anyway...it was strenuous on the little man (esspecially at 22 years old) and he would litterally fall off of her, But things got done.... :lol:

So putting the two together to "seal the deal" sounds good to me lol

As for pictures....I most def wanna see the mare and the stud lol not so sure if i want ones of the 'event' though LOL


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Who says my mare has a nasty temperament? She's a TB mare...she's got attitude but she is by no means nasty. Just because a horse is not a beginner's horse doesn't make it nasty and I don't appreciate you bad mouthing my mare Centrestableswendy. 
I have been looking to break my mare's maiden to facilitate eventually breeding my next show horse and would like to do so before she gets much older. I have been looking at different studs and my first choice has always been a welsh cross for her first. She is a very well bred, well made mare and her lack of a show record is through no fault of her own as I have not had the time or inclination to campaign her. It does not mean that she is not a stellar moving, very athletic and trainable mare. The few local shows she has campaigned at she has never been out of the ribbons and judges across the board from hunters to dressage have loved her and I had a few ask me if I planned to breed her. 
I also have several potential buyers already for the foal as they like my mare and her conformation so much. And a TB/Welsh cross even if both parents are registered is still a designer mutt of a horse. I am considering this stud for his advantages of strength of bone, conformation, size and personality. His lack of a show record is not a priority to me because I'm not looking for the next pony medal champion. If the foal turns out to not be pony size, so be it but it would be stupid to breed without a goal in mind for the baby and it's potential use wouldn't you say? It would also have a forever home with myself if any complications, health problems etc arose or a suitable home could not be found. 
I appreciate the concerns regarding breeding, but one lone breeding where all of your concerns have been previously weighed by the owner and contingency plans are already in place is not the cause of over population. Putting animals together because you can or because you want a baby or because they just happened to escape together is the cause. Not to mention those that are breeding multiple mares to an unregistered stud. Select breedings to even grade studs is acceptable in my opinion if you are breeding for the right reasons (conformation, personality, trainability) and you are realistic about the limitations of such breedings. 
I would rather have a hardy crossbred grade pony from well built parents than breed to most known APHA, AQHA and TB lines to name a few that have genetic defects, foot and leg problems and digestive problems known in their lines. Not to mention most of them can pass on less than stellar personalities and trainability. Forgive me if you think anything not registered is a sin but I happen to prefer it as far as health and temperament are concerned.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Really? You want to breed for a TB/Welsh/Who knows what??
I just really don't get this pointless breeding, I'm sorry. 

Just because they have reproductive organs doesn't mean they need to be used. 

Good luck if you decide too, I just think it's a really, *really*, REALLY silly idea.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Just out of curiosity what is worse to you. Two registered horses with bad conformation passing on known genes like Herda, HYPP, etc or a nicely put together grade horse of an age where most conditions would be apparent and a very nicely built registered mare? I'm just wondering why you feel that registration > health, temperament and conformation.


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

Im with NittanyEquestrian on this...Ive seen some down right horrible registared horses...ones with a horrid temperment and shoddy confo. Then ive seen well built even tempered grades. I would take a nice even tempered grade over a horrid purebred any day and so would most people in the world. Its only the big show farms and ranches that truely care about registration.

Not to mention Nittany seems to have thought the entire thing through So I dont see an issue...

Oh and Nittany....I still wanna see pictures of the little man and your mare lol


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Neither are fine with me.
Breeding crap horses is breeding crap horses. Some mutt with bad conformation = Poco Beuno son with Herda or and Impressive Granddaughter with HYPP. Neither set should ever see another horse of a different gender with intent to reproduce. People with HYPP Y/N negative horses and breed them get the same head shake from me as people who breed an Arab/Quater/Morgan with a TB/Paint/Holsteiner just because they are pretty and nice. 


I just think you'd be much better off breeding your mare to a nice Reg'd TB instead of some Welsh cross.


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

Pidge said:


> Im with NittanyEquestrian on this...Ive seen some down right horrible registared horses...ones with a horrid temperment and shoddy confo. Then ive seen well built even tempered grades. I would take a nice even tempered grade over a horrid purebred any day and so would most people in the world. Its only the big show farms and ranches that truely care about registration.
> 
> Not to mention Nittany seems to have thought the entire thing through So I dont see an issue...
> 
> Oh and Nittany....I still wanna see pictures of the little man and your mare lol


 
I have to agree from what I have read and know of this situation there has been a lot of thought put into this.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Pidge said:


> Im with NittanyEquestrian on this...Ive seen some down right horrible registared horses...ones with a horrid temperment and shoddy confo. Then ive seen well built even tempered grades. I would take a nice even tempered grade over a horrid purebred any day and so would most people in the world. Its only the big show farms and ranches that truely care about registration.
> 
> Not to mention Nittany seems to have thought the entire thing through So I dont see an issue...
> 
> Oh and Nittany....I still wanna see pictures of the little man and your mare lol


Registraton is only 1/4 of it. For me. I've seen a crapload of Reg'd horses with no conformation and a pedigree that you have to go back ten decades to find a show record. I don't really think those horses should be bred, either. 

I don't even neccessairly have a problem with a good grade riding gelding or mare. As I've said before, you ride the horse, not the papers. But I just don't like seeing crossed horses breeding crossed horses (or crossed horses breeding purebreds) when there are already thousands of them out there with nowhere to go and nothing to do. 

Either way, we all know what opinions are like. :lol:
I just think it'd be better for all parties involved (aside from maybe your friend who owns the Welsh X) to find a nice looking TB to breed her too. Who knows? Maybe you'd end up with a SHN foal on your hands. :wink:


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