# Keeping my reins short or not?



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

I have been letting charlie walk on a loose rein while we walk and work on using my seat to turn him. When he trot, he brings his head way up high and I have to shorten my reins. My arms are never "like a hinge" when holding the reins, my arms are usually not on my sides of my torso, they are more out in front. How can I keep contact with his mouth and have correct form but not have to stop him to readjust my reins whenever I intend to trot?


----------



## aeosborne2002 (Jan 30, 2012)

Your reins are never just one length when you ride. You should always be adjusting the length somewhat as you ride. When a horse trots, the head naturally comes up and in just a little, requiring you to adjust your length just a little. You'll always be adjusting rein length for each gait, stride length wihtin a gait, going uphill or downhill, etc. Without any pictures or videos, I couldn't begin to tell you why your horse is holding his head really high at the trot. 

- Adrianne


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

Just some shots I have, I will take more on the next ride!


----------



## NavigatorsMom (Jan 9, 2012)

You shouldn't have to stop him to adjust your reins, that's something you should be able to do at any gait  So start by making sure you can lengthen and shorten your reins at the walk, and it should transfer to the trot. 

Your horse is cute, but he looks hollow... could be that something is hurting him when you trot. Have you checked for sores on the back, correct saddle and bridle fit?


----------



## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Think about keeping your upper arms hanging vertically down the sides of your body, neither pinched against your torso nor extending outward. This should be the natural position obtained by the force of gravity working upon them if no other force is acting upon them. Your lower arms, wrists, and reins should then form a line to your horse's mouth. Think that, if your lower arms were long enough, you could hold the bit with your fingers and have no need for reins.

Your wrists should not be broken. Your thumbs should be on top holding the reins. Try to establish one or two ounces of contact -- just enough to feel what is happening at your horse's mouth. Do this while standing still. Once the horse begins to move you may need to let some rein slip through your fingers if your horse extends his neck. At other times, you may have to shorten the reins by working them between your fingers something like an inchworm moves. 

Once you establish the contact, keep it constant by allowing your hands to move with your horse's head. You do this by allowing your upper arms to pivot at your shoulders. The angle between your upper arm and lower arm will open and close as you hands move forward and back with your horse's head as it moves to keep him balanced. It may help to think of bungee cords attached to your elbows. They extend as your horse draws your hands forward and retract as the horse gives slack to the reins.

At the trot, the horse's head does not move as much. But your joints must remain loose so your hands can remain still while your body moves. Do not try to hold your hands still, or you will tighten your muscles and they will move with the motion of your body. "Allow" them to remain still while your body moves.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

first of all, have you ever posted a video for critique? this would be a really valuable thing to do. scary, but valuable.

when you are walking him, it is nice to let him walk on the buckle. but, you can also have him stretching out and walking and still have contact on the rein.
in fact, a really great excersize that my old dressage teacher had me do a TON of was to practice taking up the contact and letting down the contact , at a walk, without messing up the walk.

this would help you to be able to feel the rythm and the allow for the movement of the head as you shorten the rein . you must do this "within the walk" so to speak. that means you shorten with each step, only as much as is created by the horse's neck movment . you know, the neck kind of "bobs" as the hrose walks, and so each time the horse moves his neck up, it creates a bit of looseness in the rein, then it retightens as he puts his head down.

you will take up that looseness a bit at a time, in the rythm of his stepping. as your reins become shorter, you start holding them a bit firmer with your hand, and think of uniting your elbow to your body and "gathering" your hrose back to your core. you ask him to come to you, and slow down his walk by shortening the steps, not by slowing the rythm. this is mostly done by firming your core muscles, but having a more closed hand on the rein, and a bent elbow will help.

get 3 or 4 nice , compact steps, and reverse the process; let the rein out, bit by bit, within the rythm of his walk. practice this a lot and it will help you be able to shorten and lengthen your reins within any gait.

and remember, never panic and yank your reins shorter, unless the horse is bolting. if he trots off with the reins a bit long to start with, this is fine. in fact, if you constantly pick up and rapidly shorten your reins every time the horse picks up a faster pace, he will become anxious and wary about it.


----------



## PineMountDakota (Jan 4, 2010)

Watch this! This is so cool. I want a "Rocky" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-MEsdOTisc&hd=1

This is more dressage based WITH contact so if that's what you want great but it is a very good explanation for your hands and arms in general.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

looking at those photos, it looks like the saddle might , and I say might, be either too far forward, or too narrow in front . the pommel (the front part. think "Palm" as opposed to "can" for cantle) seems a bit high. your stirrup is also one notch too long. you look like you are strugglinn to get up and over your leg, and thus you may be balancing on the reins.

can you post while holding the reins on the buckle?


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> looking at those photos, it looks like the saddle might , and I say might, be either too far forward, or too narrow in front . the pommel (the front part. think "Palm" as opposed to "can" for cantle) seems a bit high. your stirrup is also one notch too long. you look like you are strugglinn to get up and over your leg, and thus you may be balancing on the reins.
> 
> can you post while holding the reins on the buckle?




As in just hold the reins at the buckle, so they are very loose, but still post?


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> first of all, have you ever posted a video for critique? this would be a really valuable thing to do. scary, but valuable.
> 
> when you are walking him, it is nice to let him walk on the buckle. but, you can also have him stretching out and walking and still have contact on the rein.
> in fact, a really great excersize that my old dressage teacher had me do a TON of was to practice taking up the contact and letting down the contact , at a walk, without messing up the walk.
> ...






I want to do a video tomorrow for critique! I am scared because i obviously havent been riding alot or enough to be considered a good rider.(I have ridden since I was 4,but took a few years off and never had a trainer so my posture and seat was never important to me so I am learning everything basically as a beginner!) Should I get a video of just like a little walking, trotting and cantering? Charlie is really great at the canter, except for his balance..


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Don't worry . you might hear all the things you already know, but maybe folks can see some minor thing that will change everything.

in looking at the photos, without the benefit of motion, it looks like you do not have the strong seat that allows you to balance independently. your horse does not help this by hollowoing out like he does, but it's kind of a chicken and the egg thingy; the more he hollows, the more you fall forward and come off balance and maybe rely on the reins, and the more he hollows. 

thus, having the physical strenght to balance is #1. then getting your horse to lower his head and lift his back, Nix the hollow, is #2. WHICH makes #1. sooooooo much easier. but , it starts with good position . that's why instructors harp on this. 

and good position is made easier or harder by the saddle and it's fit and balance.

get a nice video of walk, trot and canter both directions. get a friend to hep you. my ipad takes GREAT videos, and then it's easy as pie to post to Youtube, and themn post a link here.

good luck!


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

WinstonH123 said:


> As in just hold the reins at the buckle, so they are very loose, but still post?



yep. if there is a safe place to ride, like an arena. try to drop the reins right onto his neck, put your hands on your tummy, or on top of your thighs, and post along with him. if he is trustworthy in that he won't buck, let him just trot out whereever he wants to go. pick up one rein and steer, if you need to , but just let him cruise and you just move your body to stay WITH him and be as easy to carry as you can be. stay safe, but don't worry if he moves , even if he moves out faster. he can't go anywhere and he'll probably actually enjoy it.


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

How do I upload a video on here? What is the easiest way?


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

i have my videos on youtube, then post a link to them.


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

Here is me lunging him. I know the line isn't tight , but I am trying to teach him to move out and come in when I want. trying to convert the other vids but this is how he looks without the saddle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6kHtwAK0DQ&feature=youtu.be


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

nice looking horse. he moves nicely.

be careful not to get the line wrapped around your hand. it can be extremely dangerous.


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocIp5gpH_GE&feature=youtu.be

Just walking so you can see how he looks walking without the saddle


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

ok. he walks nicely, too.


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

OKAY. so I know that this is probably the worst riding anyone has ever seen. Please be nice about critiqueing it, I just want to understand how to correct my poor riding/poor balance/too shot of reins/ everything else. I want to improve!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICcXBgn8P40&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

WinstonH123 said:


> OKAY. so I know that this is probably the worst riding anyone has ever seen. Please be nice about critiqueing it, I just want to understand how to correct my poor riding/poor balance/too shot of reins/ everything else. I want to improve!
> 
> 
> And you're doing a fine job with all of your hard work! Yes, I'd definitely lengthen the reins-my horses feel as if they're being 'nagged at' with short reins, and I clearly see the difference. Sometimes it's just the 'little things', right?
> ...


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

Northernstar said:


> WinstonH123 said:
> 
> 
> > OKAY. so I know that this is probably the worst riding anyone has ever seen. Please be nice about critiqueing it, I just want to understand how to correct my poor riding/poor balance/too shot of reins/ everything else. I want to improve!
> ...


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

one day, you will treasure this video. treasure it.

why do I say that? becuase, yes, your riding right now is not so great. however, you WILL get better. and your horse is simply a doll! have faith, you two will become a really nice match in time, and you'll look back on this video and be hardly able to beleive it.

So, as to feedback specific to help you . . .

first of all, you need to lengthen your stirrup and get your leg down under you more so you'll feel more secure. An English saddle does not mean that you ride by the stirrup or by "clamping" on. you still need to have a leg that drapes down around the horse more. this will help you sit down and ride from your seatbones more.

I would honestly say that riding bareback for a while, or stirrup less will help you like no other thing. you are riding really stiff becuase you are riding from the stirrup without having any real seat on the horse, or leg. it's a very precarious way to ride and when you canter, you can see how much up and down motion occurs as you are kind of "whipped" around with the motion, with the point of leverage being your foot. 

so, step one is to sit down. really sit down with the horse carrying your weight through your body, not your feet. that's why dropping the stirrups will help.

until you become more secure in the saddle, talk about how or where to hold your reins is a bit too far ahead, becuase since you cannot control your seat, you will not be able to control rein contact, at least you wont' be able to do it at anything above a walk.


----------



## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

WinstonH123 said:


> Northernstar said:
> 
> 
> > I just feel so out of control when the reins are long! I will work on it though! How do I turn him on a loose rein? Stupid question but I feel like I will just lose all control and he will just be going wherever he wants! Where would be a good place to hold the reins while we are trotting or cantering?
> ...


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> one day, you will treasure this video. treasure it.
> 
> why do I say that? becuase, yes, your riding right now is not so great. however, you WILL get better. and your horse is simply a doll! have faith, you two will become a really nice match in time, and you'll look back on this video and be hardly able to beleive it.
> 
> ...



Okay,I will definitely try riding stirrupless or bareback more! I know that riding a trot bareback on charlie is PAINFUL and i almost fall off! Any tips? and thank you for saying Charlie is a doll


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

he is. that's a very nice horse, and he's being super patient. got a lot of potential.

use a bareback pad, for your and his comfort. no stirrups, though.

when he trots, you gotta stay loose in your body, look UP, think UP, sit DOWN. 
Imagine you are sitting 6 inches down INSIDE his body. relax, do short trots, smile, laugh, and remember that even falling off is not the end of the world. you are young, the grass is deep, you'll be fine.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I went back to your other thread and saw that Charlie is 22~!

folks, this is one cute horse and rider. here's a picture of them: ( I hope you don't mind, Winston)


----------



## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

One thing I noticed from that video is your saddle is far too small! That wont help your position at all. I can see that you appear uncomfortable, however for now, dropping your stirrups will help you so much!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

Are you sure the saddle fits properly Winston? Some horses will hold their head higher than usual because of a poor fitting saddle. Then again that could be the way your horse naturally carries his head. My horse used to do this and I tried a friends saddle one day. My horse carried himself in a totally different way


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> I went back to your other thread and saw that Charlie is 22~!
> 
> folks, this is one cute horse and rider. here's a picture of them: ( I hope you don't mind, Winston)


haha oh no, I don't mind! Yes he is 22! He is actually even cuter now than he was when we got him! I definitely reccomend mustangs! He is so smart and now that I'm actually trying to get into riding properly, and being around him more, I see how smart and what a quick learner he is!


----------



## WinstonH123 (Oct 11, 2013)

Spiritandjuniper4711 said:


> Are you sure the saddle fits properly Winston? Some horses will hold their head higher than usual because of a poor fitting saddle. Then again that could be the way your horse naturally carries his head. My horse used to do this and I tried a friends saddle one day. My horse carried himself in a totally different way


I assumed it was too small! We never got fitted for a saddle, jsut got the one my cousin outgrew when we got charlie, she gave it to me! That was in fifth grade.. but I am looking for a new one! apaprently the one I have is 17" but I would have thought it was a 15 by how it fits haha and not sure what size to get so I am going to go to the petsmart in a closeby town which has a state line tack built in (drools) and see if they can help me fit a saddle to see what size I need. Then I will try and borrow a few of my aunt's saddles and see how they fit charlie to see wht size everything he needs for ideal comfort! I cant think of any other way to see! We have no trailer and Charlie is kept at my house, not a stable


----------



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Ideally lungeing the handler has a caveson and does not lunge from the bit (it pulls onto the bars/etc and does not help in relaxation. The horse should be on an even circle, with a light connection, even bend, and a steady tempo w/o running. And for sure, NEVER wrap the line around the hand or allow it to drag on the ground.

So, what is job one as a rider? To sustain an even connection and not abuse the mouth. If the lunge work has not done that the horse is already tense.

In walk and canter there is bascule/telescoping of the neck within the gait which needs to be allowed to create trust and a relationship. It is not short reins, but adjusted and with an allowing elbow joint and shoulder socket. In trot there is no bascule, so it is the easiest for the horse/rider. Keep the same tempo (post lower/slower). Horses will follow the riders weight (merely step down into the inside stirrup, no leaning).

The loose reins jumping around are erratic contact, just as much as too short ones would be.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Since you are riding a close contact type saddle, I'll recommend:

Riding And Schooling Horses: Harry D. Chamberlin, John Cudahy, Edwin M. Sumner: 9781163173299: Amazon.com: Books

Commonsense Horsemanship: Vladimir S. Littauer: 9780668057912: Amazon.com: Books

From the former:










I prefer a longer leg than that since I don't jump, closer to this illustration from the US Cavalry manual:










VS Littauer taught beginning riders to ride without contact. He originally taught that everyone should ride with contact, but decades of teaching convinced him that a beginning rider should start with slack in the reins. Western riders usually ride that way at all times.

After 6 years of riding, I think I will always be a beginner by VS Littauer's definition. Slack in the reins does not mean have a draping rein that hangs down low and flops all over. It just means to have enough slack that the movement of the horse's head won't apply pressure to the mouth. This is what I mean by slack:










I've seen no indication from my horses that they consider any pressure from this style to be equivalent to my attempts at riding with contact. Even with metal snaps on the ends, I've seen no sign that the reins are flopping on the bit. For my goals in riding, I've converted over to the western approach with reins whole hog, so I won't comment further than to note that it is OK to ride without contact.


----------



## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> o
> first of all, you need to lengthen your stirrup and get your leg down under you more so you'll feel more secure.


I agree with tiny that you need to lengthen your stirrups several holes. Use the picture in the link for an idea about the length of how long your stirrups should be. It is not a perfect measure, but a good start. 
You may fit in your saddle a little better with longer stirrups. 

http://caaequestrian.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/39.jpg

Once you are comfortably posting the trot with your new stirrup length, that is with steady hands, heels down and a balanced body, then I would recommend some no stirrup work. But not until you can post without relying on your hands for balance.


----------

