# 3 month old pictures- dun?



## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I'm probably stepping in it...but...ahhhh...what species are we looking at? : )
Sure is cute!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

xD my appologies. All three are miniature mules.


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## Ponies (Aug 18, 2012)

:O They are adorable. 
I mean... They look like a handful. Ill take one off your hands if you need me to... lol.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

soooo cute!


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Very cute! Hmmmm I think that the rules may be a tiny bit different with animals of the Donkey origin but I am going to try since they _are_ half horse.

For Honor, she looks to be simply what I call "Donkey Dun", anyone correct me if I am wrong on this, but they kind of have their own style of dun and seems that every donkey/mule I see with this has the lightening resembling pangare, now this could be just foal colors, or it could actually be Pangare (also called mealy). Only time will tell really, But her color is most likely "Donkey Dun" but I am not too good at donkey related colors 

Honors little friend there Jigsaw, to me defiantly looks to be black, most likely lightened due to environmental factors.

Finally the filly, I would safely say shes Chestnut carrying flaxen and possibly pangare also, the reason I say this is looking at her reminds me of a haflinger, which a breed that commonly is thought to be "palomino" but there is no such thing as a palomino haflinger. They are all Flaxen chestnut, most have pangare as well. 
example of a flaxen chestnut haflinger >> http://www.wynonabrown.net/New_Folder/haflinger-teich-12.jpg
also, since the mom was chestnut this is very likely.


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## maggiesshowjumping (Jan 3, 2013)

the foal looks like a palimino because of its white mane and gold body but if it is true that the mom is chestnut and the dad is grey dun then there is no possiable way she can be palamino, neither a chestnut nor a grey carry the creme gene. a palamino carries 1 copy of the creme gene (CCr)
hope that helps?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

maggiesshowjumping said:


> the foal looks like a palimino because of its white mane and gold body but if it is true that the mom is chestnut and the dad is grey dun then there is no possiable way she can be palamino, neither a chestnut nor a grey carry the creme gene. a palamino carries 1 copy of the creme gene (CCr)
> hope that helps?


Grey can carry cream. I like to remind people that grey is like a blanket - the horse is a "normal" colour like chestnut, or bay dun, or smoky black, or whatever colour they are genetically, but the grey is covering it and hiding it. Hope that helps


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

So technically she could be a palomino?

Here is her dam and sire.

dam









another picture of Tempest. She looked chestnut when first born...









And her sire. This is also Honor's sire but not Jigsaw's









and her shedding. Her mane just recently started turning white.









Pangare would make sense, since Honor seems to have it as well from both of her parents (her dam has a mealy muzzle)

As for Jigsaw, thats what I figured.

What I find funny is that Honor looks 100% donkey, no horse at all


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Endiku said:


> So technically she could be a palomino?
> 
> 
> What I find funny is that Honor looks 100% donkey, no horse at all


Palomino is possible if its a grayed donkey, but didn't you say the sire was a gray dun? like as in a dun that is gray, not a gray like a grayed out horse? if so then it wouldn't be possible.

but with Honor that's so true! lol, I wonder if she will look it full grown too... hmm it would be interesting to see.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> Grey can carry cream. I like to remind people that grey is like a blanket - the horse is a "normal" colour like chestnut, or bay dun, or smoky black, or whatever colour they are genetically, but the grey is covering it and hiding it. Hope that helps


But in this case its not gray like a gray horse, it's a gray dun donkey. So not a "grey"


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

maggiesshowjumping said:


> the foal looks like a palimino because of its white mane and gold body but if it is true that the mom is chestnut and the dad is grey dun then there is no possiable way she can be palamino, neither a chestnut nor a grey carry the creme gene. a palamino carries 1 copy of the creme gene (CCr)
> hope that helps?


Way off topic, but where on earth do people keep finding "CCr" as an abbreviation for cream? It makes zero sense and just causes confusion with the two capitals (and last time I checked, cream is not spelled ccream).


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Yes, he's grey dun, not a greyed black. He hasn't changed colors since the day he was born and he's 16 years old.

Thats what I was curious about! I'm hoping that she'll be a bit more...refined when I clip her in the spring xD if I hadn't seen her come out of my mare's uterus with my own two eyes I'd be REALLY questioning if she were actually a donkey and not a horse.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but donkey color genetics aren't the same as horse genetics. For example, their grey is not nearly the same as horse gray, so trying to predict the colors the same way isn't going to work.


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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

Poseidon said:


> Way off topic, but where on earth do people keep finding "CCr" as an abbreviation for cream? It makes zero sense and just causes confusion with the two capitals (and last time I checked, cream is not spelled ccream).


Ccr is actually the correct way to denote cream in a horse. CC is negative for cream. CcrCcr is homozygous. CR is just a simplified version of it. Along with NCR.

Cream is the mutation on the gene. And pearl should be technically written as CprlCprl.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

riddlemethis said:


> Ccr is actually the correct way to denote cream in a horse. CC is negative for cream. CcrCcr is homozygous. CR is just a simplified version of it. Along with NCR.
> 
> Cream is the mutation on the gene. And pearl should be technically written as CprlCprl.



Cr is the correct way to notate the allele. Check out the labs that run the tests - how do they notate it? As Cr. The addition of the locus is superfluous when discussing it, as the only time it matters what locus it is at is when discussing pearl. That would be like saying EeEe is a red horse, EEE_ is a black one. We know that it's on the C locus, it doesn't need to be put every time.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

riddlemethis said:


> Ccr is actually the correct way to denote cream in a horse. CC is negative for cream. CcrCcr is homozygous. CR is just a simplified version of it. Along with NCR.
> 
> Cream is the mutation on the gene. And pearl should be technically written as CprlCprl.


Well then the labs must be wrong then... Considering they list cream as nn, nCr or CrCr... Not CCr...


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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

The labs use NCR and CRcr etc because it is easier for most people to understand. The technically correct way to list cream IS Ccr. That is straight from the researchers themselves. 

If you actually read the research papers on them, its denoted as Ccr. Heres the abstract for you.
The cream dilution gene, responsible for the palo... [Anim Genet. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI

And heres the quote for you in case you didnt want to click the link.


> An analysis of horse chromosome 21 using additional families confirmed and established a group of markers linked to Ccr


And heres a link to the original paper where they also use Ccr
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2732686/pdf/1297-9686-35-1-119.pdf


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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

Chiilaa said:


> it doesn't need to be put every time.


Of course not. But to say that it's wrong and doesn't make sense to denote it as Ccr is completely incorrect. It adds more information. Sure that information may not be 100% needed, but it's not wrong to put it in there.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I would say that the the filly will darken as she ages, to the color of what is in the middle of her forehead, and on her jaw just under the eye.


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## maygen (Jan 8, 2013)

What your seeing on the nose is mealy like said it either lightens or darkens the muzzle. Easiest seen on a brown horse and bays. Pretty little guys


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