# Appropriate size of property?



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I suppose it depends on the quality of grazing and your climate, but we are on 13 acres, have about 4 acres of pasture for 2 horses, and it's perfect. I can rotate so they are on 2 acres at a time while the other pasture rests and recovers. I have not fed any hay all summer, and do not expect to feed hay until November or December. We let our back pasture grow up wild (there's a lot of timothy, some clover, and a few other things) and it was as tall as the horses' withers by the time I put them out there in July. There's still lots there. We opted not to seed it because it would be too rich for my small horses, and we opted not to mow for the same reason. But if you had hard keepers, or wanted a better quality pasture, you could always buy some pasture mix. Assuming of course you have enough rain to keep it green. So in my opinion, 6-7 acres is more than enough for three horses, still giving you options to section off areas of the pasture for recovery. 

As for the barn and house, I'd get them inspected. Make sure they are not flood-prone, and that everything is solid of course. There has to be a reason why it's a good deal. Figure out what it is, and whether you can live with it.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Agree - it really depends on where you live. You can also contact the local Ag Extension office and they can give you estimates on how many horses per acre. My area (NW IL) advised to allow 2 acres per horse. I only have 2 small pastures (about 4 acres) for 4 horses. I rotate pastures each month and mow the pasture they just came out of. We always have plenty of grass - but I do supplement with hay and my horses are grained 2 x per day about 2lbs each feeding.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Since you are in Florida I will think it is in this area you found this place.
Location and native grass, improved grass make a huge difference.
The question is are you planning on supplementing hay or only using pasture as your feed source?
If only pasture... minimum of 3 acres per animal would be my guess...
During growth season abundance, during cold months of bare minimum of growth...you will be cutting it close in feeding them.
Pasture is usually sparse under trees and a weedier area instead...add in areas of poop piles, picky eating horses....
Take 1/3 of that overall pasture and remove it from usable status...
So, 9 acres minus 1 for house & yard, now at 8 acres. 1/3 less of that is around 2+ acres.... so unless exceptional land previously maintained you now have 5 - 6 acres to graze.
That figures close, about what you need here in Florida with careful watch to pasture maintain 2 horses.
A year of great rainfall, no drought....you might squeak by better but the way it has been by me lately..._ I'm buying hay!_ :frown_color:
:runninghorse2:...


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> As for the barn and house, I'd get them inspected. Make sure they are not flood-prone, and that everything is solid of course. There has to be a reason why it's a good deal. Figure out what it is, and whether you can live with it.



I think I might take a look at it. The home was built in 2000, went into foreclosure, and these people bought it super cheap in 2011. It was a bit of a mess when they bought it and they did extensive renovating. Some major stuff was put in new last year like the roof, whole house water filtration system and water heater. The open pole barn was built last year as well. Of course an inspection would have to be done but it really looks well care for and maintained now. 

As far as flooding? That's the last thing that I want as my horses are in a mud hole right now and it's driving me crazy. The owners property has a horrible drainage problem. I know the area pretty well where the place that I am looking at is and flooding is few and far between but would still be looked into.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> Since you are in Florida I will think it is in this area you found this place.
> Location and native grass, improved grass make a huge difference.
> The question is are you planning on supplementing hay or only using pasture as your feed source?
> If only pasture... minimum of 3 acres per animal would be my guess...
> ...



I guess my idea is that on a property like this, I would still be buying hay but far less. Horses in at night during the winter and during the day in summer with hay nets. Probably about eight to ten hours a day of grazing? Does that sound about right? I could also fence off the area around the pole barn (which is where most of the trees are to give them room to roam without being on pasture. Good place for winter bales to go too.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Yup...what my guys do on their pasture. They have plenty to eat for long enough.
I bring mine in at night for security reasons. Feed hay square bales myself....

OK...flood zones...
Florida was rezoned in the past few years.
What was out of flood zones now can be in them...few areas are out of the 100 year flood plain and that is the secret... flood zone is FEMA, flood plain is your county making your life a headache with a possibility of flooding once every 100 years. 
One designation requires flood insurance, the other no.
Secret of this one is when and what happened the last time torrential rains from storms came, where is the nearest water source of free-standing water and what is the property elevation.
All of this is free for the asking with a property search.
If you know a parcel #, name, address of a street and area you can find it all yourself online in the GIF maps of the county where the land is...
I'm good at finding if you want some help...PM me details and I will find you what I can uncover.
:runninghorse2:...


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> Yup...what my guys do on their pasture. They have plenty to eat for long enough.
> I bring mine in at night for security reasons. Feed hay square bales myself....
> 
> OK...flood zones...
> ...



I'm looking into it but I'll let you know if I need help investigating. 

Did I mention that it backs up to a national forest with miles of trail riding right out the back door? 

Is there anything going on over in your area that you feel your horses are unsafe or are you being cautious? I know there were a few thefts happening a little further south for a while.


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## buckskinbaby (Aug 16, 2017)

The law where I am is 1 acre per horse minimum however that is pretty tight. the place you're looking at sounds amazing and quite ideal! it is a fairly large pasture however that just means there is room to grow your animal family


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

buckskinbaby said:


> The law where I am is 1 acre per horse minimum however that is pretty tight. the place you're looking at sounds amazing and quite ideal! it is a fairly large pasture however that just means there is room to grow your animal family



Laws are one thing, sustainability is another. Where I grew up in LA county, you needed a quarter of an acre to keep horses in some communities. The horses lived in stalls and had to be taken out and ridden for exercise. Back then there was a lot more room to do this too. Where I live now horses lived here once upon a time. There are many old houses here and some still have old carriage houses on the properties. I could keep horses on my property that I have now if it were allowed, but, it's not.

As far as a growing animal family, Nope, not a chance. I don't have restraints on room right now but I do have restraints on time as I work full time. A small hand full of chickens would be nice though. Maybe when I retire but even then, I would like to spend my time relaxing, taking care of my property, and riding more, not looking after and feeding animals all day long. I already feel like I have a lot with two dogs, two parrots and three horses.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

LoriF said:


> Is there anything going on over in your area that you feel your horses are unsafe or are you being cautious? I know there were a few thefts happening a little further south for a while.


No, just wildlife in the area.
My horses like to challenge the skunk family that lives in the woods other side of the pastures...so they come in.
One skunk bath detox was enough!!

But, I worry.
There were issues in Polk and Lake several months ago about missing horses. To many issues for it to be "faulty" fencing...so I err on the side of caution.
To get to mine when in their paddock it will take you 4 fences to cross and my dogs will be going nuts...
I don't mind them in and actually it reassures me as soon as daybreak I can see them in the barn or paddock hanging out. I let the grass dry some and out they go around 9:00 - 10:00 am....home 10 - 12 hours later.

On a totally different thought...
Monday is the eclipse.
Supposed to be really bad here...and it is not supposed to be cloudy either.
I'm bringing mine in or just not putting out till later in the day. Haynets it shall be and for those 3 hours they will be locked in their stalls.
I don't know if it is something to concern ourselves with, but if I shouldn't look without eye protection neither should my animals. :wink:

Let me know if I can help you do fact finding. 
Be careful where you are in the forest. 
Some parts are being paved roads put in and it ruined property values and use for horses...so bicyclists can pedal. They forgot about us equestrians though...
Already the cars are speeding down the trails and leaving filth in their wake. :-x

:runninghorse2:...


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

My horses are outside 24/7, 365 days a year, whether it's 95 degrees or forty below zero. That's the way I've done it for 17 years. They have a shelter that protects them from the north wind or freezing rain, but they seldom go in there. They share the pasture with a lot of deer at night, which might explain why they don't spook when they encounter deer on the trail. One morning we found a fox in the pasture, quite dead with a very flat head. As long as the Timber Wolf sightings remain a few miles north of us, the only animals that concern me are stray dogs. So far the dogs have been discouraged by the electric fence and the fact that my little guy would really love to kill one. In the winter the horses share the pasture with the Scottish Highlands, and I don't know what fool of a predator would want to tangle with those long horns.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Joel Reiter said:


> My horses are outside 24/7, 365 days a year, whether it's 95 degrees or forty below zero. That's the way I've done it for 17 years. They have a shelter that protects them from the north wind or freezing rain, but they seldom go in there. They share the pasture with a lot of deer at night, which might explain why they don't spook when they encounter deer on the trail. One morning we found a fox in the pasture, quite dead with a very flat head. As long as the Timber Wolf sightings remain a few miles north of us, the only animals that concern me are stray dogs. So far the dogs have been discouraged by the electric fence and the fact that my little guy would really love to kill one. In the winter the horses share the pasture with the Scottish Highlands, and I don't know what fool of a predator would want to tangle with those long horns.


I also leave my horses out at night, except in extreme cold in the dead of winter, and that's only because Harley coughs when he gets too cold. I don't worry about animals, or even people, but I don't live in an area where horse theft is a thing (they'd never catch Kodak anyway). My horses encounter deer all the time, and we do have skunks around, but so far, none have sprayed my horses. I do string the bottom electric fence line low enough that my dachshunds get shocked when they try to get under it, so maybe that's why nothing gets in. Well, except for the occasional deer who are able to leap between wires with their rather spectacular acrobatics. We have bears and large coyotes, but they generally leave us alone. I know some people bring in their horses at night around here, but in the summer heat and flies, I give them the option to stay out or come in, and they always choose to go out at night. They come back into their open stalls to avoid heat and flies in the afternoon. 

I've come to believe that being out as much as possible is the healthiest, most natural lifestyle for horses so while I understand it's not realistic for everyone, whenever possible, I think this is how they are happiest. Harley was at a camp with my daughter for 5 days and spent very little time in turnout. He was miserable and cranky the whole time, and gained weight from being stalled so much!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> On a totally different thought...
> Monday is the eclipse.
> Supposed to be really bad here...and it is not supposed to be cloudy either.
> I'm bringing mine in or just not putting out till later in the day. Haynets it shall be and for those 3 hours they will be locked in their stalls.
> I don't know if it is something to concern ourselves with, but if I shouldn't look without eye protection neither should my animals. :wink:


Not sure why you think your horses would be more inclined to look at a solar eclipse than looking at the sun. They don't care that it's an eclipse.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Depending on where you are at but if it is northwest then we would likely be similar. I have 25 acres fenced and about 13 of it is pasture (8 with pine and live oak then 5 with no trees). The other 12 is a mixed stand of trees that we have thinned and keep the more open areas brush hogged so we can ride through. Too shady for grass. We also burn this once every 5 years or so. There are 3 saddle horses on the 5 acres and a mix of draft and saddle on the 8 - typically no more than 5 but I do occasionally have more on either piece. Of the 8 there is about 1 acre dry lot and 1 acre fenced for riding/rehab/quarintine - whatever. So basically 6 that has a mix of pine and oak. We do turn a few in on that if there are no visiting horses in there. We also have a bout an acre around the house we turn a few out on but that is just a token amount and doesn't really count toward anything except keeping me from having to mow. Grass grows fine under the pines but not at all under the oak trees. We started with bermuda but as the ph changed (not enough lime put out) bahaia took over then when my husband refused to lime and fertilze centipede started creeping in. I don't mind the bahaia but would prefer bermuda. Bahaia is costs less for upkeep. We mow to keep weeds down and discouraged. I feed alfalfa cubes along with a pelleted feed as the pasture isn't enough to keep weight on them with that load. There are about three months depending on weather and temps that I feed hay - for that I put out round bales of bermuda until that runs out then it is rye grass hay. Usually 6 bales a month. I have 2 drafts on a separate 5 acre piece that is divided into two pastures both with trees - they stay fat on that. The front is bahaia/bermuda mix and the back bermuda/St. Aug. They get a ration balancer with a small can of oats or all stock (because the ILs think they know sooooo much) along with alfalfa and in the worst of winter a round every two to three weeks.

ETA I think in one of the threads in this section I posted pics of part of it. If you want to see how it compares then I will look it up and link - just let me know


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Joel Reiter said:


> My horses are outside 24/7, 365 days a year, whether it's 95 degrees or forty below zero. That's the way I've done it for 17 years. They have a shelter that protects them from the north wind or freezing rain, but they seldom go in there. They share the pasture with a lot of deer at night, which might explain why they don't spook when they encounter deer on the trail. One morning we found a fox in the pasture, quite dead with a very flat head. As long as the Timber Wolf sightings remain a few miles north of us, the only animals that concern me are stray dogs. So far the dogs have been discouraged by the electric fence and the fact that my little guy would really love to kill one. In the winter the horses share the pasture with the Scottish Highlands, and I don't know what fool of a predator would want to tangle with those long horns.


Our five horses are out all the time also. The coyotes avoid the pasture entirely. The deer sometimes wander through the pasture, but are happy to spend their time eating the 150 acres of soybeans that surround us. The fox come in the pasture, but avoid the horses. The little critters like rabbits wander through and the horses ignore them. The horses will stop and watch the wild turkeys when they come through, perhaps just because there are so many of them in a group.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> I know some people bring in their horses at night around here, but in the summer heat and flies, I give them the option to stay out or come in, and they always choose to go out at night. They come back into their open stalls to avoid heat and flies in the afternoon.


You were really smart to set up your new barn so your horses can move between their stalls and the pasture.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

It really doesn't get that cold here in the winter so staying outside at night is not a huge deal just due to temps. What it does do here is get down to 35 to 40 F and pouring down rain. Yes, they start shivering in 35F and soaking wet. If I were to buy a small acreage property, the reasoning for bringing them in other than the cold wet conditions would be so I don't end up with 8 acres of dirt and weeds.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

LoriF said:


> It really doesn't get that cold here in the winter so staying outside at night is not a huge deal just due to temps. What it does do here is get down to 35 to 40 F and pouring down rain. Yes, they start shivering in 35F and soaking wet. If I were to buy a small acreage property, the reasoning for bringing them in other than the cold wet conditions would be so I don't end up with 8 acres of dirt and weeds.


If they have shelter, they should be ok, but I know some don't have enough sense to come out of the rain whereas Harley is a wimp and will run for his stall at the first few drops - with Kodak close behind. I have found that they haven't put a big dent in the back pasture, which is just over two acres, in the month and a half they've been in there. But of course, they can only eat grass here for about 6 months since we are snowed in a good part of the year. So keeping them on pasture year round would require more rotation and I imagine your growing season slows down in the winter so you'd have to be careful about killing the fragile, semi-dormant grass.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> If they have shelter, they should be ok, but I know some don't have enough sense to come out of the rain whereas Harley is a wimp and will run for his stall at the first few drops - with Kodak close behind. I have found that they haven't put a big dent in the back pasture, which is just over two acres, in the month and a half they've been in there. But of course, they can only eat grass here for about 6 months since we are snowed in a good part of the year. So keeping them on pasture year round would require more rotation and I imagine your growing season slows down in the winter so you'd have to be careful about killing the fragile, semi-dormant grass.



It does go dormant here in northern Florida from about the middle of Nov. until about the middle of March. It's just not covered in snow. It has very little nutrients to it in the winter.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

LoriF said:


> It does go dormant here in northern Florida from about the middle of Nov. until about the middle of March. It's just not covered in snow. It has very little nutrients to it in the winter.


I figured. But is dormant grass any less nutritious than hay? I honestly wonder. Since hay is dead, isn't it the same as being dormant? Or is the fact that it was harvested when it still had nutritional value mean that some of the nutrition is captured? Hypothetical question for those who are knowledgeable. 

I feed hay cubes year round which I use as a vehicle for all the necessary supplements, though I add things like flax in the winter.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Acadianartist said:


> I figured. But is dormant grass any less nutritious than hay? I honestly wonder. Since hay is dead, isn't it the same as being dormant? Or is the fact that it was harvested when it still had nutritional value mean that some of the nutrition is captured? Hypothetical question for those who are knowledgeable.
> 
> I feed hay cubes year round which I use as a vehicle for all the necessary supplements, though I add things like flax in the winter.


The nutritional value of dried grasses depends on where one is, too. And the type of grass.

Some "hay" in some places is better if cut at certain times of day within a range of temperature and humidity. Some of the native grasses in the West cure well on the stem, but not all of them do. That's why ranchers will try to save certain pastures for winter grazing and let their livestock eat down others. 

It gets pretty complicated and I wish I knew as much as some of my friends who rattle off the Latin names of our grasses like they are family.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> I figured. But is dormant grass any less nutritious than hay? I honestly wonder. Since hay is dead, isn't it the same as being dormant? Or is the fact that it was harvested when it still had nutritional value mean that some of the nutrition is captured? Hypothetical question for those who are knowledgeable.
> 
> I feed hay cubes year round which I use as a vehicle for all the necessary supplements, though I add things like flax in the winter.


Yes, the nutrients are captured when cut,dried, and baled,. When in dormancy the nutrients mostly go back down into the roots of the plant.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

you can also google Bahia grass and get lots of information. It takes a lot of land here to graze pre animal, but we get very hot and very dry and most of the dry grazing land is for cattle and in summer months a lot of people must supplement with some sort of feed. Irrigated pastures and if it is divided in half 4 acres could work for 3 horses. You may need to supplement some forage so it is not over grazed, and that you can rotate for worm infestations etc.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Not only are nutrients redistributed from dying grass leaves but once the plant is dormant it stops absorbing minerals and nitrogen and it no longer produces chlorophyll and the carotene that provides vitamin A. What is there when it goes dormant is also weathered and lost similar to the exterior of baled hay losing value over time. Hay that is stored properly is better as it holds the minerals much, much longer (years), has carotene available and has a higher protein content than dormant grasses though you can fertilize specifically to up the protein it still isn't the same. If you have enough acreage available you can manage pasture for winter grazing of dormant grasses and actually increase production in the spring. There is more damage done grazing during growing periods because of the way it grows than dormant unless you have beasties that like the sweet roots and dig for them.


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