# breed this mare??



## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

i want to breed my mare but have vary mixed feeling about it! i have had colts before and that is not the issue, the issue is that she is not registered. i my self dont think unregistrered horses should be bred..but... this is a REALLY great mare who has won me at LEAST half the barrel kackpots i have bin in, plus can be pretty decent reining horse, tracks a cow AMAZING and is all around a great ranch horse.

her dad was a registered Morgan who i beleive was broke to ride but thats all i really know about him he died a while back. 

her mom is half QH half Morgan and his a great kids horse and also not a bad reiner with almost flawless conformation.

her full sister is making out to be quite the barrel horse and speed event horse also with almost flaeless confo. 

her half brother (from the dams side) is almost three and is coming along really nice, showing signs of being athletic with a great pateint and laid back personality.

she is SUCH a good horse and i want a foal from her to keep for my self to have after she is gone that hopefully is even half as good as she is

whats your oppinion? please dont make this into an argument or be harsh about it.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Do you have pics of your mare? Do you have a stallion in mind?


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

i dont have stallion in mind, i would like either a barrel bred or reining bred though. i didnt want to go on a stallion hunt and get all excited just to hear it would be stupid to bread her. i wanted to hear what everyone had to say first!

i will post some pics later too!!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Depends on her age, breeding soundness, who you breed to and how much more you are willing to spend in breeding/raising a foal instead of buying one already on the ground. 

Breeding is a risk to your mare, one of my mom's mares just miscarried at 8 months gestation yesterday morning. She is getting regular medication now, and needs additional vet checks and exams before trying to rebreed. There is a risk something might go wrong and my mom is checking often for warning signs that there is a serious problem. all things need to be considered before breeding. It can be very dangerous, if the vet didn't remove the placenta yesterday, hours after the miscarriage, the mare probably wouldn't survive very long. This is why it is so much easier to find what you want on the ground already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Hold on, wait a minute, put a little... nevermind. Not a song to sing at this time.--- You have already stated that you don't like to breed unregistered horses, so how about a deal?

Like someone already said, the mares conformation, breeding soundness, and disease testing would play a big part. Now, lets say she has almost flawless conformation, her breeding soundness(from a vet) comes back perfect, and you get her tested for common diseases in morgans and quarter horses and she gets a clean bill of health.

Then, and only then would I suggest you go on breeding her. Though at that point, you have put in mind a stallion. One with good conformation, breeding lines, and will fit your disipline. What I would suggest here, and this is where the deal comes in, finding a paint stallion that is what you are looking for. If my memory serves me correctly, you can register a horse as a pinto even if only one parent is registered. (Someone correct me on this.)


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Good comments all. Yep, are you willing to risk the mare by breeding her?

I mostly do not agree with grades, 50% of the time you get a mutt. The other 50% crop out as amazing and can carry on all the great attributes of the mare. If you know what you are doing. I've done it (a looooonnnggggg time ago) and the foal came out EXACTLY like her mother. The mare was a Quarab I crossed her with a very athletic proven QH stud and the foal got very little from him, except for longer legs and a nicer head! My mare was very much like yours, athletic, smart, easy keeper, perfect endurance, incredible feet, great conformation. She passed it all on. I was going to really get into endurance and this mare had it all. I have yet to find a horse as tough as my little mare was.
Would I do it now? There are soo many good horses going south. Now should I have to suck it up and purchase someone else's cross or prospect? Especially when I loovvee the horse I was going to breed, knew her family, history, abilities? Tough call. Post her picture, the prospective stud and we'll see.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

here are some pics of her i hope they are good enough. the 4th one was when she was 6 and we just got her so she was a little lacking in the muscle department.

















she actually has a level topline she was standing on a slant.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

the only real confo flaw she has is a touch long back.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

I actually really like her personally (Im a sucker for those 4 socked chestnuts..hehe) She looks like a full QH to me. Pretty nicely built..the one thing I notice from these pics is her back seems pretty long so you might want to find a stallion (if you decide to breed her) that doesn't have the same trait. Also...3rd pic..YIKES! Dangling rope and unbalanced/unhelmeted baby


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

she is 11 now, i am aware of the risks in breeding like i said i have had mares in foal before. i would only breed to proven stallion with some kind if show reccord and goo conformation as well as disposition. Blood lines would also be a huge part in it. i will go on a stallion hunt and let you know what i can find. oh and i also would have a vet out to make sure it is totally safe to breed her, that she is free of any deseases and so on. i will NOT breed her if her health check is not good.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

and yes i know please no coments about the pic 3.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Your other issue is going to be finding a stud of any quality that is willing to breed to an unregistered mare...


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

She's a really cute mare and I like her conformation for the most part..BUT..I wouldn't breed her..That's just my preference. I don't believe in breeding grades when there are so many other horses out there..Now if you do decide to breed her and you are wanting a proven stud with amazing lines how are you going to do that? I'm not trying to be mean or rude but all of the really good studs I know of won't even consider breeding to a grade mare. It "taints" their reputation and the owner's choice in who he decided to have a breeding contract with and could possibly make others who liked the stud turn away from him..Most of the very good stallions I know of, won't even breed to a good number of registered mares if their bloodlines aren't good enough...I'm just saying, don't go looking for these high dollar studs and expect them to love your mare as much as you are.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

here are a couple studs who i might like.
Whitby Farms

CD Jewel#
.
let me know what you think. or if youy have any studs you think would suit well with my mare


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

i know a lady who shows reining and cow horses, her stud Playboys Haidaway (sp) is my mares half brothers sire. i know her and she has some of the best horses around. and a great stud rep. she no longer has him but she does have a stud she just got imported from texas and he is a son of wimpys little step. i cant think of his name at the moment.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

And she's said that she will breed to your mare?I wouldn't just want to breed to him because he's the only one available if others say no.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

no he is a great stallion, good confo, dispostion, blood lines, and performer.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Again, not to be rude...but you don't even know his name yet? That's kinda important...especially if you're already thinking of breeding your mare to him. What all do you know about him, concrete things. Like what all has he proven himself in? Competition? Offspring? Not just hearing from the owner that he's a nice stud..I would want to see facts and proof..


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

i have heard from other people that he is a nice stud, not the owner. he has shown in reining and reined cow horse. his offspring and correctly conformed with great personality and athletics ability to do what ever you want them to. and i also cant recal ever saying i want to breed my mare to him, i only used him as an example of a goos stud who wil bredd unregistered mares. enough said about the stud. the main reason i posted this thread was to find out if it would be absolutly stupid to breed her.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

and i know his name i just cant remember it at the moment


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm not trying to be rude to you, I'm just telling you things from a different viewpoint... I wouldn't go about having huge plans with top studs and then be shot down when you talk to their owner.. 

If she were mine, I wouldn't breed her..I'm just against breeding grade horses. You have even said that you were against it..Are you going to be one of the people who tell others over and over again to NOT breed grades and saying that it's an awful idea..then you go and breed a grade? That doesn't make much sense to me..You're being a little hypocritical don't you think?


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

i just think its not necessary unless the mare has really proven her self to be a great performer in some dicipline, has a good dispostion, conformation and the horses in her background also have many of the same working qualities.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

At least her background isn't a complete and total mystery. You just don't have paper to prove it. If it is something you are going to do though, I would strongly encourage you to look into a breeding that would result in papers on the foal. You never know what life will throw at you, so having the baby registered would be ideal, IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

I wouldn't breed this mare unless you were definitely going to keep the foal. Unregistered horses are almost worthless as babies, even riding horses aren't bringing much unless it is really nicely broke to do something. 

I think she is a nice mare, but you could have a nice foal out with nice papers for what it would cost you to raise this baby. 

If you are set, I would pick a decent looking stallion. She is a nice looking mare, don't breed her to crap like some do with grade horses! 

Pretty Girl you have there!


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I generally don't support breeding of grade mares but Your mare has some nice features I wouldn't totally discard idea of breeding her, if you are looking to get a keeper foal.I would be looking to a stud that you could register the foal & a short couple stud to offset your mare's long back.I would consider breeding her more to an APHA stud then you could have a foal that could be eligible to register as pinto.I know there are a few studs around here that are APHA & they do breed grade mares. The stallion owners are active in the CPtHA {Canadian Pinto Association } so they, as well as several of their clients go on to show these youngsters.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

You know, it's up to you. She is lovely. Long in the back/loin, neck ties in high and appears from some of the photos to be short. Front legs look off, maybe camped out in the back. Personally I wouldn't after seeing the side shot, but it could just be the photo. No horse is perfect, she looks athletic and capable.
You said you want to keep the foal, train it as your own so there is no fault in that. You obvisouly know the costs associated with breeding and raising the foal so im sure you are prepared. She looks very loved and well cared for.

I agree it would be best to cross her so that the foal can be registered. What exactly is her performance record? I would think long and hard about the risks and time it's going take. She'll be out of commission for a while, will have a foal by her side for a year. It's tough. If you go the QH route maybe look into an equally athletic appendix bred QH/paint/pinto. Going with a foundation or reining/cutting horse could look wonky, I'd play up her athleticism.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

In my opinion, registration papers only matter if you are heading to the show ring or to sell the foal. 

There are plenty of crap registered horses out there. If you want the baby, do you care if it is registered? It doesn't seem to bother you that your mare is not registered. 

There are a lot of registries you can register the foal with, Pinto is one if you get color. 

My concern is not that the foal may or may not be registered, but that the mare is 11 and maiden. I prefer to breed a mare by 5, before thier hips set. That said, I have never purposfully bred a mare - but there has been one 'oops!' and one mare purchased in foal - which was the best experience EVER!

All in all, it is a very personal decision...


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

I've seen papered and un-papered horses that were a train wreck. I've got mixed feelings about breeding grade horses, but if you feel like you have a good mare and can breed her to a stud of equal or better qualities...go ahead. My mare was 10 yrs old when I bred her for the first time and in a few months I'll get to see her first baby.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

thats exciting gigem, i think i am going to breed her as long as her health check is good and i can find a good stud. and only to a stud that will make the foal in some way registerable.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Did you know Morgan has a 1/2 Morgan registry I don't know the paticulars of it but you might want to look in to it. Your mare is really nice. It's up to you if you breed her or not. Foals are alot of fun to have around, but it also alot of work and it's nerve wracking having a mare close to foaling, lots of sleepless nights waiting, and checking. Alot of mares foal with out any issues, but when there is an issue it's an emergency and the outcome is usually grave.


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## Fear The Tree (Feb 12, 2012)

I'd get her checked up first. Then If it came back perfect, only then would I breed her


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I wouldn't be against breeding her IMO. She's done more being a grade horse then probably 50% of registered stock. There are associations that the resulting foal can be show in (Reining and Barrel Racing) They don't require the horse to be registered.

To me, if the mare is a money winner, does really great racing, has a terrific attitude and nice conformation (maybe not perfect but nice) then I see no reason why she couldn't be bred. A clean bill of health first.

And with her being proven in the show ring, I don't think stallion owners will turn her away. Maybe some super big breeding farms but I don't see this being that big of an issue.

This mare is proven in the show ring, I'd take that any day over a registered mare that's just sat in a field and popped out babies, if I were a stallion owner.


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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

I would not breed a grade horse, period, given the current horse market. And to the folks that say say you can't ride papers...you're right. BUT, I can tell how old my horse is without either trusting the previous owner or guessing based on teeth. I know who has owned my horse before me and how long each person kept her. And, with all the genetic issues (HYPP, HERDA, etc) out there, it tells me what I need to be testing for prior to breeding.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Nice mare...


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

You can't ride papers. 

That being said, she looks like a very nice athletic mare. If you are willing to go through all the stresses of having a preggers mare, then why not? People here can't really tell you what you can and can't do. They can give your their best advice, but really, it's up to you.

I don't know what you think of roans...
BK Quarter Horses - Stallion

Also, you can find stallions in your area here: Horses for sale, ranches and horse businesses in Canada - Northernhorse.com


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Darn thing won't let me edit my post anymore...

if we're getting into the "mutt" conversation, around here, it always seems the expensive registered horses get hurt. But the freebie mutts with okay confo? Bah. Sound for life! It just seems to happen like that for some reason.

Me and my father have broke 3 wild mutts to ride. The oldest who is 6, is one of the best, most reliable horses we have. The other two are just turning 4, and they're turning into awesome horses. They've been rode hard too, they're all fine.

My mom's mare, bred to the nines: foundered. 
My yearling mare, bred to the nines: Can't eat alfalfa, get's urinary tract infections. 

I'd breed my mutts no problem, and probably get a darn good horse out of it too. It's all personal preference.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

QHriderKE said:


> Darn thing won't let me edit my post anymore...
> 
> if we're getting into the "mutt" conversation, around here, it always seems the expensive registered horses get hurt. But the freebie mutts with okay confo? Bah. Sound for life! It just seems to happen like that for some reason.
> 
> ...


There is a degree of truth to a mutt being healthier than a pure-bred - the same holds true with dogs to a degree.

I have nothing against breeding FOR crosses. As has been discussed before here, some crosses make fantastic horses and are better at doing their job than either breed they came from.

I am, however, opposed to breeding horses with unknown ancestries. That means you should use registered breeding stock or if your breeding stock is unregistered, you should know their ancestry. That is important for 2 reasons...first, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread you should be aware of the potential for any genetic diseases...second, you need to know if your cross is bred true, meaning does your cross reflect its breeding, or is it an anomaly. 

There is an old, old axiom in breeding - if a horse is not true to its breeding, it cannot be expected to breed true itself. There is never a guaranty of what you can produce, but using registered breeding stock or at least breeding stock with known ancestries improves your chances of producing what you want. Breeding a horse with unknown ancestry or a horse not true to its own breeding on the other hand, is a complete crapshoot...


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

You have a point... And I agree with you. I know that if I wanted to breed my mutts, there is people I can talk to and find out what their breeding is. 

But how did breeding all start? People bred their favorite horses to the neighbors favorite horses and then they started keeping track of what horses were bred to make what foal, and then it turned into Associations and the registry schtuff we have today. That may not be historically correct, but it's a pretty simple way of saying it.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I won't breed grades..ever....But the OP has stated and has a proven mare and she knows most of the mare's ancestry. She realizes and understands that this breeding isn't something to be handled lightly..She's prepared and can be responsible for all of the mare anf foal's needs..If she wants to breed her proven mare to a really nice stallion, so be it. It's her dcision...I will admit that at first I was totally against it, and really I probably wouldn't do it, but the bottom line is that it's her horse and her decision...Her mare has done more and proven herself more than some registered horses I know...Now, I am just trying to help her with questions and finding a nice stallion that will suit her mare..


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

QHriderKE said:


> You have a point... And I agree with you. I know that if I wanted to breed my mutts, there is people I can talk to and find out what their breeding is.
> 
> But how did breeding all start? People bred their favorite horses to the neighbors favorite horses and then they started keeping track of what horses were bred to make what foal, and then it turned into Associations and the registry schtuff we have today. That may not be historically correct, but it's a pretty simple way of saying it.


Again, true to a degree, but it is a bit more complicated than that.`

A breed starts with a vision of what kind of horse is wanted - in other words what type of work with the horse be doing and what type of conformation will create the most efficient form to function to do the job.

But to create that horse as a breed is a long and tedious process. In the first place it takes a great deal of experimentation to produce your prototype for the proposed breed..and often that has to be done in steps over several generations. Then you have to recreate that prototype enough times with a wide enough gene pool so that you can then begin breeding like to like without excessive inbreeding. It's more complicated than it sounds, because different bloodlines mix differently, so as you are building a sufficient population to establish a breeding population, you have to continually eliminate specific bloodlines that mess up the mix.

So you are certainly correct in that all breeds start with crossing horses with dissimilar gene pools (like the neighbor's horse), but breeds are created with a lot of thought, planning, experimentaion, and time.

I bred and raised Araloosas for many years because they are IMO the ultimate endurance trail horse, and acquired enough expertise to produce a relatively consistent product. However, to establsh a new "Araloosa" breed would take many many generations and years and years of culling individuals and bloodlines to establish a breeding population that would breed consistently.

Hope that makes sense...


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

I am not a fan of breeding grade horse but....

you seem pretty sensible and she is a VERY nice looking mare, she also appears to be good at her job and she has won you some stuff

so in this situation......I would say go for it.
You also plan on keeping this foal for yourself too so I see nothing wrong with it.

Keep us posted


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

I still will always say that SBR Formula One is my fav stallion, and is every thing a QH should be. I know his owners are picky though so they probably wont breed to a grade?


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Some owners that stand studs are very picky about what they are breeding too. You may pick a stud and find out the owners will not allow your mare to be bred. 

I am not a registry snob, my own horse is grade but I certainly wouldn't be breeding a grade horse these days.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

if you want a at least a half registered foal you can breed to either a paint, and if it comes out colored you can get into the pinto registery. there is also the idea of breeding to a double dilute stallion for a palomino, but thats likely you wont get a palomino nor find a great double dilute stally that balances her out. there is also morgans that offer half registeries as well as arabians. 

i understand the whole knowing the ancestory. the gelding i have at the moment is out of registered aqha stock, however his mother died soon after having him so she was never Dna'd to get his papers done, it's unfortuante he isnt registered or i would be able to sale him for more.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I have no problem breeding a good horse to another goodhorse period.
A good barrel or playday horse can bring 5000 + and there are always people looking to buy one. Papers and color are only icing on the cake and may increase the price but performance and ability have alot more value.
Finding a stallion is not that hard as there are many good stallions available.
I say as long as you breed for a purpose and with a goal in mind then go for it. Shalom


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## countryryder (Jan 27, 2012)

I have to agree with dbararabians! You pretty much took the words right out of my mouth..


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

thanks guys!!


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I really like this mare, other than her long back she looks fantastic. 
I hope you find a nice stallion if you go that route. 
Good luck with your decision.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

She's really downhill... There are tons of barrel bred babies out there. We do not need more. I'd say no, don't breed her.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

she isnt downhill. and even if she was down hill really is not a big issue, a see lots of NRHA stallions downhill, barrel horse, cutting horses. its not really a huge problem.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Downhill is actually a _huge_ issue that is being shamelessly rebred through a lot of horses. It's something that people need to think about and prevent. i.e., not breeding downhill mares or stallions.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

banman said:


> she isnt downhill. and even if she was down hill really is not a big issue, a see lots of NRHA stallions downhill, barrel horse, cutting horses. its not really a huge problem.


You might want to try and get a better profile picture of her not on a hill so we can truely see how level she is.

Also, being downhill can cause a problem. The center of gravity is shifted forward, making the saddle shift forward and the rider. Not to mention putting more weight on the front then already there. About 65% of a horses body weight is located on their forehand. Putting anymore on it can cause some big issues. As well as sores on where the saddle will rub because it shifts forward. Any conformational default is bad and does not need to be passed along. 

Like my judging instructor says, "Judge a horse as an athlete." To be that athlete their body has to be able to let them extend out. Downhill horse has a tendence to stumble, resulting in possible injuries that will make them unsound.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't know about downhill horses stumbling more. My pony Lily aka the "Butt High Queen of the World" has yet to take a bad step. She's very athletic and quick on her feet, going on 11 this year and beyond an abscess this last summer is perfectly sound. 

The only horse I've known with a stumbling issue was level, she was just a lazy beast who didn't like to pick up her feet and move out unless you RODE her. Didn't help that the farrier we were using thought long toes were the way to go on a Walker. 

Sorry, OP I don't have an opinion one way or the other about breeding your mare. She looks like a nice horse and seems to have proven herself pretty well. If you do decide to breed her I agree with going with a stud that'll allow you to register the foal somehow. I know you aren't planning on selling her, but I believe you should always provide your animals (especially ones you bring into the world) with the best possible chance at a good life no matter what happens in yours.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

here is a pic that shows she is not down hill


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

and i didnt know a horse could have too steep of a shoulder?


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

banman said:


> and i didnt know a horse could have too steep of a shoulder?


Yes it's a conformation fault.

This mare also demonstrates a long, weak back. Her croup is too short and too steep and her tail is attached too high. She is also slightly downhill. Not as downhill as I originally thought, but still downhill. She's steep in the shoulder and her neck is attached poorly, as well as being a bit short.


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## christabelle (Feb 13, 2011)

I really like your mare, and I think she is better looking than 80% of the horses I see being bred. I don't breed, BUT She is your mare, breed her if you want to, an enjoy her baby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

She is a nice mare and I don't see that she is downhill at all.
She may not win a halter class but then again few performance horses have and certainly not now with halter horses they breed these days.
She is your horse if you want a foal from her that is your business. There will always be a market for a good barrel horse and they bring good prices. In the end it is your decision . Shalom


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

My opinion on her comformation is a few things.

She isn't flat, you can obviously see the muscles in her gaskin. Her underline isn't perfect but it isn't terribly short either. I'll agree with her back being a little long, thought her topline is pretty darn level. Another great feature she has is her neck, good arch to it for being a grade. She could be a little longer from her point of buttock to her stifle, but other than that the triangle is almost perfect. I don't see that her tail is to high, I think it is the way she is swishing it. Pretty clean throatlatch going through and her neck ties above her shoulder. Though, something to be critical on is her shoulder is slightly to steep for my liking.

Would I breed her? Eh, she is proven so that is a plus. Like I stated before (I think), you can to a certain stallion and register it.


(Disclaimer- I am newly learning judging so I took this as a good time to try out my skills. Anything I said, may or may not be correct. Just my thoughts on what I saw.)


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> She is your horse if you want a foal from her that is your business. There will always be a market for a good barrel horse and they bring good prices. In the end it is your decision .


So your saying that because she could make money, she should breed this mediocre quality mare and add more horses to the mess of unwanted ones worldwide. nice. 

And since I am _not_ new to judging, I must say that I continue to back everything I said about her, including that her tail was too high.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

mudpie said:


> So your saying that because she could make money, she should breed this mediocre quality mare and add more horses to the mess of unwanted ones worldwide. nice.


I think dbarabians was alluding to if the OP were to need to sell the foal down the road (due to unforeseen circumstances), she wouldn't have too much of a problem.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Actually, your mare is still slightly downhill. Being downhill has nothing to do with the horse's withers or the point of the croup. 

This mare has slightly high withers. This makes her topline level. However, her center of gravity is slightly to the front despite her level topline, and this is what makes her downhill.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

and i didnt mean too steep of a shoulder i meant too laid back sorry, not sure why i wrote steep, and i see do not see at all how you see a steep shoulder in her the point of her shoulder and to maddle if her wither (which is where you are supposed to measure the shoulder andle from) is not up right at all.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

i will just go take a picture of her today and sqaure her up and everything.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I do not see a mediocre mare I see a good one and looking at pictures on the internet is not a good way to judge a horse.
This mare and her siblings are being used a barrel horses and doing well. If she is bred to a stallion that compliments her then the foal has a good chance of being a good barrel horse. It is that simple and logical.
I however, cannot forsee the future. 
The fate of the colt that has not even been conceived is not determined as of this post.
If she has to sell the foal that is her buisness and her decision to make.
I do think that she should be very selective in choosing a stallion as anyone that breeds should. However registration papers do not make a horse run a faster barrel pattern. Shalom


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

maybe this will help? not sure if i did it right. the bluue dot on her back is where her last rib is about.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

That photo is still skewed a little toward making her seem uphill. Her front feet are not level with her back feet, which makes her withers appear higher than they are.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Chiilaa, is it better to judge downhill/uphill from whether or not the hocks & knees are level? I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't remember where it was...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

It's more about balance to be honest. This horse is balanced toward her front end. You can have a horse that is built uphill and have high hocks.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Chiilaa, is it better to judge downhill/uphill from whether or not the hocks & knees are level? I remember reading that somewhere, but I can't remember where it was...


It is better to tell from the croup and the withers, they should be level across.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Ladybug2001 said:


> It is better to tell from the croup and the withers, they should be level across.


Again, it is not better to tell from that. Topline is not the same thing. This mare, for example, has high withers. That is making her level across the topline, while she is still built downhill.


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## banman (Dec 14, 2009)

so what is wrong with her other than she is built down hill and has a long back? and i changed my mind i am not breeding her haha. i am hopfully buying a new mare who has wonderful blood lines and is registered and i get a deal on a stud fee for buying her and the stud in a son of wimpys little step, he is a reining horse, not shown yet do to lack of time and too many horses at the moment but he will be shown this year and he is beautiful and and is just such an awesome horese and i hope it works out!


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## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

banman said:


> so what is wrong with her other than she is built down hill and has a long back? and i changed my mind i am not breeding her haha. i am hopfully buying a new mare who has wonderful blood lines and is registered and i get a deal on a stud fee for buying her and the stud in a son of wimpys little step, he is a reining horse, not shown yet do to lack of time and too many horses at the moment but he will be shown this year and he is beautiful and and is just such an awesome horese and i hope it works out!


No Horse is perfect obviously. She has some flaws. 

Now in a registered horse, you can dig through the pedigree, and figure out where the flaws came from. Or you can dig through the pedigree and see if there is a flaw that is not visible in your particular horse, but that may be passed on, and choose a registered /pedigreed animal that you've seen enough offspring of to be fairly certain he won't produce that flaw, and that his ancestors/siblings/etc didn't. 

You can't do that with your mare.


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