# Separating horses and cows



## BerryBeezy

Let me start by saying that I am new to horses and everything they are about. I grew up on a farm and we had cows and chickens and a few pigs but never horses so when my wife said she wanted horses I said sure because I always wanted one but while I was a kid the answer was always no. I have talked with my grandma and she agreed to let me have the small barn on our family land. It needs a little work but is still in good shape. It has two stalls a nice sized storage room for feed and tack and another area off to the side I could use for grooming. The only thing is that there are still cows on the property. About 15 head. Growing up with cows my first instict was to just throw up some barbed wire but I saw a guy on another forum get reamed for mentioning it so I know that is a huge no no. So I was thinking about T posts and horse wire from lowes and wooden posts between and at the corners but my concern is that the cows will destroy my fence. I have time to work on my fence because I'm not getting our horses until January. All the stuff I have read has me scared to death of fences! My barn has a fence around it that I have to redo also but it will be inside my larger fence. Any help you guys can give will be greatly appreciated!
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## BerryBeezy

I forgot. I'm also thinking of putting a 2x4 across the top of the fence as a cap to protect against the wire edge. Thanks for your help!
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Run hot wire around the top and middle of the fence on both sides. It will keep the cows off the horse fence and keep the horses from chewing on the top rail.










This is similar to how mine is done, but I have hot wire around the top and the middle to keep the horses off the fencing. I have several who would eat the wood and one mare will literally lift her hoof and step in the middle of the mesh to try to pull it down so she can eat the grass on the other side, if I don't keep it hot wired. 

So, I'd run hot wire on both sides since you have cows and they're notorious for not respecting fences.


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## BerryBeezy

Thanks Dreamcatcher!
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## flytobecat

Yeah -you need the hotwire or they will just tear it down.
Dreamcatch -you can come and put fence up at my place anytime. Nice job!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Thanks Fly, that's not my fence but it's very similar.


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## BerryBeezy

So Hotwire is a necessity? No electricity near the barn. Are there battery powered systems?
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## flytobecat

I don't know about battery, but there are solar systems.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

BerryBeezy said:


> So Hotwire is a necessity? No electricity near the barn. Are there battery powered systems?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I couldn't stand it if I didn't have hotwire. The horses would destroy my fencing in a week or less if I just let them have at it. They make very good solar chargers for the hotwire, I have 3 because I have my property separated into different paddocks. They last a long time and are very cost effective.


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## BerryBeezy

Ok that's works. Thanks Fly!
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## BerryBeezy

Cost effective is always good. And a little extra for a Hotwire beats a new fence any day in my book. Thanks Dreamcatcher. Side note question.. Is 2 acres enough grazing for 2 horses? My plan is to let them in the pasture during the spring and summer to graze and keep them in the smaller fence around the barn with a hay bale and feed in the winter.
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

#*$*)%$** got logged out AGAIN!

Zareba® 3 Mile Solar Low Impedance Fence Charger - 3604308 | Tractor Supply Company

Here's one you can get at Tractor Supply, it sounds like it would be plenty for your purposes.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

BerryBeezy said:


> Side note question.. Is 2 acres enough grazing for 2 horses? My plan is to let them in the pasture during the spring and summer to graze and keep them in the smaller fence around the barn with a hay bale and feed in the winter.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


2 acres should be plenty for them the graze and run around in but probably not enough to feed them 100%. For that it's recommended to have a minimum of 2 acres/horse if you're not supplementing their feed.


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## BerryBeezy

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> #*$*)%$** got logged out AGAIN!
> 
> Zareba® 3 Mile Solar Low Impedance Fence Charger - 3604308 | Tractor Supply Company
> 
> Here's one you can get at Tractor Supply, it sounds like it would be plenty for your purposes.



Thanks! This will be more than enough!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BerryBeezy

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> 2 acres should be plenty for them the graze and run around in but probably not enough to feed them 100%. For that it's recommended to have a minimum of 2 acres/horse if you're not supplementing their feed.


Ok thanks. You have been a great help. I have what I need to get things off the ground now.
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## AnrewPL

No barbed wire and always an electric fence? I have never seen horses on a cattle station that weren’t in a paddock with barbed wire; though for a horse paddock people tend to generally go for wooden fence-posts rather than steel; but I've seen plenty with steel picket fence posts and barbed wire horse paddocks. As for keeping them in with cattle unless you have maniac cattle or maniac horses there should be no problem. I have a seen a few horses pick out a cow and work it for a bit of fun now and then, but nothing hurting them, or the other way around.


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## gigem88

I have barbed wire as my perimeter fence and hot wire as cross fencing. My cows need the barbed wire to stay in and I've never had a problem with the horses and the barbed wire. My colt and baby bull seem to have teamed up as they are always licking each other!


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## tim62988

just build a high tensil fence like you would for the cows.

no offense but i don't know why people love barbed wire.

T posts or wooden posts pounded into the ground, insulators, wire, a solar fencer, some daisy tensioners and you have a fence that won't cut anyone, and the cows and horses will both respect 

our horses are in 2 strands of hot, the cows get 1 strand of hot wire


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

AnrewPL said:


> No barbed wire and always an electric fence? I have never seen horses on a cattle station that weren’t in a paddock with barbed wire; though for a horse paddock people tend to generally go for wooden fence-posts rather than steel; but I've seen plenty with steel picket fence posts and barbed wire horse paddocks. As for keeping them in with cattle unless you have maniac cattle or maniac horses there should be no problem. I have a seen a few horses pick out a cow and work it for a bit of fun now and then, but nothing hurting them, or the other way around.


I hate barbed wire and Tposts. If I have to deal with T posts I put plastic caps on them, I've had a couple horses who got impaled before I found out you could cap them. Still not perfect but .... making the best of the situation til you can refence. And I would not put show horses in barbed wire EVER. I guess if you don't care what your remuda horses look like it's ok, but I don't like the scratches and scars that come with it. 

I share a fence line with a neighbor who runs cattle, we have the barbed wire on top of mesh fencing for his cows and I marked 15 feet in from that fence and built the Vmesh and wooden fence for my horses. I use the 15 feet between for putting my stall pickings out and spreading them. I only use the hotwire on my fencing because they like to chew the wood and we can't use creosote to treat the wood anymore here in the US, and I have the one mare who always thinks the grass is greener over the fence, so she puts a hoof in the middle of the mesh and tries to drag it down so she can stick her head out. The hot wire on top and in the middle solves both problems and I have a lot less fence maintenance and it's all safe for the horses.


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## Spotted

99% of people around here have barb wire for their horses to pasture in. I have seen more damage with smooth wire and page wire then barb wire. As long as your horses have roughage then they won't chew wood. I do agree with electric fencing, you could always put an electric tape on your barb wire fence if your worried. And yes you can get battery powered, electric and solar. Cattle will also respect electric fencing, once they figure out what it is, same as horses. For smaller pens and corrals I recommend wood planks, rails or metal panels.


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## AnrewPL

I don’t think its a matter of people “loving” barbed wire but rather that people are pointing out that there is not necessarily any problem with a barbed wire fence. As I mentioned EVERY cattle station that I have ever worked on, had barbed wire horse paddocks; and when your horse paddock may be a hundred acres +, and contain 50 horses or more, fencing the lot with nice wooden posts and rails is infeasible unless your a billionaire or something. Personally, if I had a place and was breeding horses (which, one day, I hope to have) then all wood posts and wood rails, or box steel and box steel rails would be my preference. But that can run into the thousands, or thousands of thousands, hell, barbed wire and steel posts runs into the thousands, I have a cousin who does fencing contracting on the side to his real job, and he almost makes more money off the fencing than the real job. The rule I was always told about though is, if you can, always have the paddock your stallions are in fenced with big wooden posts, especially if you intend having mares in the next paddock over; which its always advisable not to in the first place if you can help it. I heard of at least one stallion that impaled himself and died on a steel fence post trying to get at a mare across a fence.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I had an older mare that impaled herself, missed her heart and lungs by inches and it was ugly. She tore a huge flap in the front of her chest and then the pole went in and came out behind her leg. It took months and $$$$ to heal her up. She was one of my best broodies though, so I did what it took. That was right after we moved onto this place, hadn't had time to change fencing or to cap the T posts. 

I have 5 big paddocks and 3 smaller ones, all are fenced with Vmesh fencing held up by 4 X 4 wood posts and 1 X 6 top rails and they're hot wired. My fencing is all 5 ft high, except for 2 stallion yards that are both 6 1/2 ft high and they have more hot wire. The only time I've ever had a problem with a stallion getting out is when that same old broodmare got injured for the final time and we took her to be put down. Never could figure out how she got her last injury but it was the last one. In the excitement, someone left a couple of gates open and Arabians being the smart, curious horses they are, when we got hom the stallion was out with the mares. We got lucky, only 1 unexpected baby from that one. Never happened before and hasn't happened since. I do keep the mares on one side of the property when they're in heat and the stallions on the other side, but otherwise, no real special precautions.


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## Wheatermay

My vet said a horse can get hurt on any type of fencing. Even wooden can leave then hurt pretty badly. I am not against barbed wire I have it. I would prefer woven but would LOVE a all wooden fence... but I cant afford it. The only thing I hate is a small section we have that was the metal posts. One horse went chasing the other and it ran into post. It gashed his side pretty good. Barbed wire (if hung right!!!! And pulled tight!!!) Will usually break when hit. It's the loose wire that can cause big problems!!! So you need to keep on on repairing any broken or loose.


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## Wheatermay

We keep our cows and horses together too...


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## Bellasmom

I have used barbed wire, IMO, if it is around a fairly large area containing a stable population (not putting new horses in/ out) it is reasonably safe. That said, I LOVE my high tensile electric...4 strands for horses & 2 strands for cattle. After stretching barb wire I look like I fought with a wildcat and lost, not the case with high tensile! It is especially good for the cattle....have never had problems separating our bull from the neighbors or from our cows. And as a side note...how is it cattle can go thru a five strand barb wire fence without a scratch?


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## Delfina

I have barbed wire for my cows, they just plain ran (or climbed) through everything else and trust me..... when the cranky a$$ school bus driver finds herself stuck because all of your cows are blocking the road, your life will be very miserable for a long time. As a bonus, barbed wire was dirt cheap or free.... just collected all the barbed wire that friends were removing from their horse pastures! Those with horses were only too happy to have me remove and take it away!

I like the steel pipe fencing as well. Our small holding pasture with cattle chute and alley is welded steel pipe. None of the cows or the bull test it, even when I use it to separate/wean the babies. Stand on the other side and bawl for me to bring the babies back though....that they do.


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## Celeste

When I tried to run horses and cows together, one of the horses chased the cows until the cows broke out of the fence in a panic. The cows went across the highway and got in with the neighbors cows. By this time, they were so upset and wild that they were very difficult to catch. One of them never would participate in our roundup. Finally I sold her to the neighbor for a fraction of her value. I don't keep cows and horses together any more.


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## COWCHICK77

I agree Celeste, cattle and horses shouldn't be kept together if helped.(on a side note rotating species on pastures help parasite control and grass growth)
also what kind of cattle, age and gender wwill help determine what fencing is best. Of course bulls without cows and yearlings are harder to keep up than older bred cows with calves. I have even noticed a difference with breeds. Then of course previous handling plays a role. You can train nasty cattle to stay within a single hotwire if you have a good enough charger and the time to do so.

I would consider the size of property, cattle and horses temperment along with property and make a judgment from there on fencing optuons.


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## AnrewPL

Sorry, I don’t mean to sound cheeky or anything, but Im just not understanding how a cow can choose to not participate in a round up.


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## COWCHICK77

AnrewPL said:


> Sorry, I don’t mean to sound cheeky or anything, but Im just not understanding how a cow can choose to not participate in a round up.


LOL!
Cows can choose not to participate, but I think it may boil down down to who's handling them as far as how much partcipation takes place and what measures are taken to ensure so :wink:


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## AnrewPL

The most non participating cows I ever saw were on a cattle station I worked on in the Northern Territory, there were between 60,000 to 90,000 of them so they were anything but angles. If they didn’t participate they were thrown, tied up and dragged into a truck. They sure learned to “participate” after that, or get even sneakier and evade the helicopters and all of us on horses. .


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## COWCHICK77

AnrewPL said:


> The most non participating cows I ever saw were on a cattle station I worked on in the Northern Territory, there were between 60,000 to 90,000 of them so they were anything but angles. If they didn’t participate they were thrown, tied up and dragged into a truck. They sure learned to “participate” after that, or get even sneakier and evade the helicopters and all of us on horses. .


Exactly my point....


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## Celeste

LOL! I guess it depends on who is more determined, the cow or the human. In this case, the cow had access to many acres of thick woods. She darted in and out. All I had at the time to work with was an old mare that started to get over heated. I was working alone on this roundup thing. Then there was the problem of the neighbor's cows. He was not willing to allow me to continue to chase his cows into exhaustion. This cow was as wild as a deer and she just wasn't worth the effort. We didn't have access to a helicopter and I don't think that you can fly them through the woods anyway. 

Catching cows in Georgia woods all by yourself with one very old horse is most likely very different than catching cows on the open plains with herds of horses and people and helicopters. 

We try to train ours to come to feed. If they don't, then there is a problem.


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## Wheatermay

Hmmm.... our horses and cows get along very well. They even hang out together sometimes. My mare likes to play with the babies even. She trots after them and the baby calf does a funny bucking jumping thing and runs after her. It's really cute. We have almost 50 acres though. Smaller areas seem to have more trouble with barbed wire, I agree. We have never had them get out or even try. They are comfortable in their field and they stay there!


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## Wheatermay

On a side not, a friend of mine had a horse that was TERRIFIED of goats, lol... She had a bad day at the rodeo when they substituted the calves with goats, lol...


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