# Losing more and more weight!



## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Okay everyone in serious need of help! Nova just seems to get ribbier and ribbier!

As far as I know shes getting fed grain in the morning its like a scoop of some type of grain that has 14% protein [srry forgot the name] and 1/2 scoop of hay pellets. Ill see if I can get the actual measurements and names. If it helps?? 

In her grain she gets vegi oil, garlic, and red cell [which is a blood builder]

Shes in a 4 acre pasture of mostly just grass and 1 bale gets put out there at least 5 times a day.... its only shared with 6 other horses. 

She gets worked almost every day for an hour or 2. Mostly w/t with a bit of canter..thats both riding or lunging.. or the occastional trail ride that consists of A LOT of trot. Im starting to wonder if I should feed her 2 flakes of hay after each work out to maybe get the calories back in her idk...

Shes having trouble gaining anymore muscle cause she has like no body fat... but WHY is she losing not gaining?! I dont want to just stop working her cause then she would lose all her muscle. :\ and thats the only thing making her looks some what decent..

THe vet did a complete blood panel and everything.. shes fine just needed a blood builder, which she got..

She just got safe gaurd wormer put into her so I doubt it has anything to do with worms. I could get a fecal done but I dont have the 65 bucks on hand to get it done, and I already owe $800.
Confused owner here!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

1/2 scoop of hay pellets is VERY little. If she doesn't get hay and pasture is not rich (we have everything pretty dry now for example, grass is just coming back, and I've seen horses even on big pastures on thin side). Also riding every day for 1-2 hours with lots of trotting is quite a lot for the horse. I ride mine 5 times/week for the most. And I ride only 1 hour of wtc in ring or up to couple hours more relaxed on trails. 

So the bottom line - ride her 4-5 times a week (even less or even stop riding at all at the moment if she's too thin, I can't tell without seeing the pics), supplement her with hay, and look how that goes. If she stays ribby I'd call the vet to do the blood work and general exam.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

my guess would be some kind of parasite, you are supposed to switch up which wormer you use every few times because apperently the worms will eventually get used to it. That's just something I heard a while ago, but it kind of makes sense?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Everyday meaning 5-6 times a week. But I can lower it to 4 or less if needed. Or every other day maybe?

The grass was pretty burnt up out there, we finally got some rain so im hoping that will help it out. When im there I'll start giving her a few extra flakes of hay. It will give some good bonding time aswell.

Ill take some picture.. Im a bit iffy about posting them but I want as much help as possible to get the weight back. I've never owned a hard keeper. Chance I just had to put some extra food into to get her up to weight then she could get fat off the smell of a empty grain bag!


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Shes on a rotational worming schedual meaning she gets like 3 different types of wormer.. but maybe she needs something stronger.. I mean her coat isnt the best condition it bleaches real easily.. 

Anyone know any strong wormers?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Yeah, post some pics, please. Hay is a VERY good idea. I noticed often horses start to drop weight in summer just because they don't have enough grass.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

HorsesAreForever said:


> Shes on a rotational worming schedual meaning she gets like 3 different types of wormer.. but maybe she needs something stronger.. I mean her coat isnt the best condition it bleaches real easily..
> 
> Anyone know any strong wormers?


You can do fecal test on parasites. She may not even need any (except the tape worms). If you are interested the center in VA charges $7 I believe for the test (which is much cheaper than what my vet charges! :shock: ). I always give my girls tape-worm dewormer once/year (Zimmectin Gold).


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Sending it all the way to VA from maine? haha traveling poop  ****! sorry couldnt resist.

Yeah a fecal test here is like 65 bucks!


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Ill get some pictures today. So look back at this post by like 6ish? I should have some pictures up.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

yeah, rotational worming is good! If she's on rotational then I would just suggest more hay!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

What about hay bellies??? LOl I dont want her weight just to become a hay belly. 

The hay they get is nice and green but it does have some weeds in it. Ill also see if he can up her hay pellets and oil intake.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Rotational working is actually a myth, you really need to have the horses on one wormer for up to 10 wormings to really get it's effectiveness up, then switch. I had a big long article on this but I have no idea where it went. definitely talk to your vet in length and detail about a proper worming schedule.
Secondly, teeth. Get them done by a vet or "equine dentist" that uses a hand float. Power float miss a lot, can take off too much in an area and generally can cause a lot of pain in the mouth - leading to weight loss because the horse simply can't chew.
Third, stop riding the horse. She needs to put on weight and her health is a higher priority than a trail ride ar lunging session.
Now as far as feed goes, you should start pumping fat into the horse. Horses don't metabolize proteins and carbs the same way we do and they can actually do more harm than good when fed in excess. Try to spread out her concentrated feed to at least two feedings a day and feed something high fat like a soy hull based, or rice bran weight builder. Adding canola oil can also help. Stay away from grains and wheat. Again, talk to your vet in breadth and depth about a feeding program. You may also consider putting her on a vitamin and mineral supplement to balance her diet. And if it is available in your area, I highly recommend Diamond V - it often comes pre mixed with other products like complete feeds and vitamin supplements. It helps to balance the hind gut and aid in better digestion.

Good luck!


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I talked to my vet and he gave me his wormin schedual:

Which for some stupid reason wont post in here but heres the link:
Deworming Your Horse : Deworming Schedule

Just scroll to the bottom.

I already put safeguard into her because its the only thing we had on hand. But im gonna put some Ivermectin into her today. and Ill continue with this schedual. 

I've had a vet look at her teeth a few months ago and they were fine then, but ill have them checked again. No food or anything is falling out of her mouth.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Ty by the way anabel! Very imformative about the feeding. Ill look more into that and mention it to my BO.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

If she is low horse in the herd it does not really matter how much hay they put out, she is not getting enough. 
What kind of hay are they feeding? How much does a bale weigh?

The long and short of it is, she is burning more calories than she is taking in. She needs to be fed more.

I like beet pulp for hard keepers. It works amazing. Look into that.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Shes actually second in command. The lead mare will drive her a bit but wont drive her away like she does the others. She gets her hay out there.

The bales weight at least 30 or so lbs. There not quite as heavy like im use to. 

Ill start giving her hay while im there in the RP or stall so she can get it all to herself. Probably 2 or 3 flakes. Ill ask for her oil intake to be raised aswell.

SHes 16.2H anyways and 1000 lbs quite a warmbloody build so she needs to be fed like one.

Thank you everyone for the really good replies!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Have you had the hay tested? More hay will not do her much good if it is low quality hay.

If you are going to feed her separately why not get some hay cubes, pellets or beet pulp?


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

She already gets hay pellets but I can deffinatly add some more when I feed her. 

I have some alfalfa cubes... would adding that help???? Id probably soak them or something so its not so dry.


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## masatisan (Jan 12, 2009)

I would nix the garlic. The garlic actually can break down red blood cells, so that might be a little...contradictory giving something that could damage blood at the same time as a blood builder.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

masatisan said:


> I would nix the garlic. The garlic actually can break down red blood cells, so that might be a little...contradictory giving something that could damage blood at the same time as a blood builder.


I second this.


Really, for even an average not easy keeper she is not getting that much food.

Lets assume (I know, I know, bad) that the scoop in question is a 3 qt scoop (since that seems to the most common size now days). She is getting 3 qts of pelleted feed and 1 1/2 quarts of hay type pellets total per day. And she is getting ridden 1 to 2 hours every day.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Its helping so much with the bugsssss lol! So what effects could the garlic be giving?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Linky to issues with garlic article


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

masatisan said:


> I would nix the garlic. The garlic actually can break down red blood cells, so that might be a little...contradictory giving something that could damage blood at the same time as a blood builder.


Never heard about it. Very informative. I tried garlic twice on my girls and gave up. Not sure why, but my paint was HOT (not just hot) every time I used it (I tried 3-4 times and it happened every single time).


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

If the bales only way 30 lbs give or take and one bale is getting fed to six horses, that is only 5lbs per horse. If the grass is not lush and thick, then it is probably not worth alot fat wise. 5lbs of hay a day plus a scoop of grain and pellets is not enough to keep a horse in condition working as much as you are working. She needs free choice hay by herself to eat all she wants. Don't worry about a hay belly, if she is in that poor of condition, then a hay belly is the least of your worries. When we were fattening up Bones he was getting free choice hay and 14 lbs of senior feed daily, and no exercise.
I think she is not getting enough feed and being worked to much, that is why her body weight is down and she is losing more. Especially if the vet did a blood panel and her teeth are okay.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Sadly I dont have the option to give her free choice hay but im gonna be giving her liek 3 extra flakes plus a extra scoop of grain every time im there which is everyday. 

I found out today they've started putting out 2 bales of hay in the pasture 5x a day. 

SHe doesnt get hay pellets I was wrong. But she gets a scoop 1 1/2 of what ever the name is of th grain shes getting.


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

Apple cider vinegar can help with flies supposedly. Thats what we give to our stallions, you could try that instead of the garlic. I'm not sure on negative effects to the blood though. Also Beet pulp does some amazing wonders with weight gain. BUT it can also contribute to sweating issues. So, if its already an issue (which you haven't said it is) I wouldn't use BP.


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

A horse being ridden as much as you are riding your horse needs way more feed than yours is being fed. I would suggest a good complete feed, especially one that has the roughage included in it. That will help her gain weight, especially if your pasture is in poor condition. It will also eliminate the necessity to add supplements, as they are already in the feed. I would personally suggest Purina's Omolene 400, as it includes the roughage that she needs. Purina Horse Feeds - OMOLENE I have included the link to the feed that I recommended so you can look at it. They also have a store locator on that website, so you can find a store in your area that carries it. She needs to be fed by the bag directions until she regains her weight, then adjust accordingly. Good luck.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Okay I got some pictures of her today. They will be posted in my next post


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Have you had the vet out? I agree, with as much as you are riding, you need to increase her food intake.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Okay so here are the pictures... 

She looks good from a distance: 









But then u get a bit closer:


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I agree with everyone else; too much work and too little food. I bet if you add the extra hay and pellets and ride 3 to 4 days a week instead (lighter work) then she'll put her weight back on in no time. I'm not sure she is a hard keeper, I've never known a paint to be a hard keeper. You probably work her more than Chance because Nova is a better horse. 

Re: garlic. There have been no studies to confirm, nor disprove, the belief that garlic can lead to anemia. Some onions do, and the belief was extended to garlic because they are related. My vet has not heard of garlic causing any problems and told me if I thought it worked to keep using it. The possible negative side-effects are worth weighing against the benefits, but so far as I know, there is no proof either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

She deffinatly is a better horse.  But shockingly I work her less then Chance. Well I worked her more undersaddle then chance because its safer but ground work and stuff is a bit less. But its also more consistant then the training I put on Chance cause now I know more of what im suppose to do. 

I've been giving her a extra scoop and a 1/2 of grain every day im there, and giving her 2 flakes before groundwork and after.

Im gonna see if my BO will put some cool calories into her food for a bit.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

garlic can cause problems, but you'd have to be feeding it in huge quantities and it wouldn't just cause low red blood cell count (which is what the red cell is for) you'd see an icteric (jaundiced horse). So I wouldn't worry about that- checked with our toxicologist to confirm this. You see this toxicity with like goats and sheep that are being fed bucketfuls of onion and garlic, not from just supplimentation.

I didn't read all the posts but a horse needs 2-3% of their body weight per day in hay and if they're in work you'll probably want to suppliment as you are doing. So I don't know, my TB is 16.2 and he weighs close to 1250 and that is about ideal for him which means he should eat 25-30 lbs a day of hay. He also gets equine sr (4#/day) and rice bran (1 scoop/day).

I'm curious why your vet didn't recommend a fecal float to check for parasites and just wondering why she was put on the Red Cell. It is for horses with true iron deficiency which you can't tell from a straight blood count. Do you have plans to retest soon? The reason I ask is that I have seen iron toxicosis from people who put their animals on Red Cell for too long/when they don't need it.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

He did suggest a fecial exam. But I already have a $800 vet bill I havent paid. I cant quite afford to add onto that yet.

I put safe -guard into her and Ivermectin a few days after. I got the okay from my vet as far as that goes to give her that just to maybe clear out anything that may be there. He sent me his worming schedual he thought would be good for her.

Well she had an extreme low blood count, so she suggested a temp blood builder Shes on 1 1/2oz of the red cell.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

More hay.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I would worry that there is an underlying cause to the low blood count. Was it red blood cells? White blood cells? 
Red count would indicate anemia(could be caused by a heavy worm load), white blood cells could be a viral infection. 
When was it taken? I would have another blood test done before I did anything else. 
Blood builders are good for the right circumstances, what concerns me is WHY is the blood count low?


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

It was red blood cells. 

And she had a weak positive for lyme and anoplasmosis so we arent sure it was from that or not.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

HorsesAreForever said:


> Okay so here are the pictures...
> 
> She looks good from a distance:
> 
> ...


I don't think she's looks that much better from afar. You need to get on this and get it addressed. If it's a parasite issue, the fecal count will tell you so you really need to find a way to get that done or the problem could just get worse. Piling calories on top of that type of issue won't do much. 

She obviously needs more food or better quality of food.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

The amount of feed she is getting as a supplement isn't really a whole lot, really. 

If the 6 horses in the field are getting 5 small bales a day, that is actually quite alot, given that most horses will eat approx. 1/2 bale a day and stay well fed...My mare gets 4 sections, and a good sized scoop of alfalfa pellets with her ACV, and an electrolyte on the days I ride. She has access to loose mineral all the time, as well...unfortunately no pasture. She is not thin. 

I would start with making sure she is getting her fair share of the hay out there...if the owners only open the bale, but don't spread it, she just may not be getting enough, period. 2 sections after a ride, no offence, won't make up for the rest of the day that she doesn't get enough.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

so, did she go on antibiotics for lyme or anoplasmosis? How long has this been going on?


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

The quantity of the bales doesn't matter much at all; it depends on the weight and quality of the bales. You could feed ten 20 lb "bales" of really shoddy hay and it wouldn't matter. You need to specify the quality and weight of these bales to really know if they are truly being fed enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## qharabluver (Jul 22, 2010)

I agree with everything thats been also you might want to see if shes actually getting hay or if the other horses are bullying her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I've watched the herd out there and she gets her hay. I found out they actually put out 2 bales of hay 5 times a day, they spread it around ot make sure they all get it. 

I can take a picture of the hay maybe that can tel you guys something. Im not good with guessing weight. Some are real light like 30ish lbs where others at the 50lbs bales.

Its been going on for the past 2 months [I've had her for about 4] and I thought it was because she was just a hard keeper but im realizing its getting worse and its scareing the crap out of me. 

I may have the money to put into a fecal count but the thing is that that money was suppose to pay the farrier. Im extremely limited right now to money since my mom passed away we lost a good chunck of money but i think I can figure something out. Ill call the vet and ask if I can bring in a fecal sample to get a test done in a week or 2. I have to wait a week or so seeing that she was just wormed. 

I have 99 bucks on a tack store gift card that sells feed. Im gonna talk to my BO about switching to a new feed but what type of feed should I switch to? Cause apparently what ever shes getting now isnt good even though it has more protein then the last one she was on. Last time she was on sprint endurence.. and no shes on like EC preformance or something???


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

She went on doxy for about 3 weeks for the lyme and ano.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Did you ever get the pre-purchase vet exam? Did that turn anything up?


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Yes I did and she was completely sound and healthy. 

I just wonder if there was/is something deeper going on. A vet still cant seem to figure it out. Right now its all trail and error. Im talking to my old barn owner now whos trying to help me figure this out. 

Shes suggested adding some straight oats and omega horse shine to her feed.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

HAF, I have to say, I am pretty distressed by your vet's lack of work up on this horse/ inappropriate treatment. Anemia is one of the most common problems we see in horses and there are a lot of causes. One of the most uncommon is nutritional deficiency of iron, which is what Red Cell is meant to treat. This isn't her problem (you only see it in horses that don't go outside like foals that are hospitalized), you're wasting your money on an iron suppliment when 10-1 her problem is something else. The anemia should be worked up especially since she didn't respond to the treatment for lyme/erlichiosis (eg. she's still losing weight). What test was done for anaplasma (erlichiosis)? You should be able to see the organisms in a simple blood smear (cost =$10 or less) so not sure why an elisa would be run (just assuming that is the test since you said "weak positive") if the suspicion was anaplasma. You generally get a lot of hemolysis with that disease too, so she would have been yellow and probably pretty sick.

Her weight doesnt bother me as much as you having a vet that sees an extremely low RBC count and instead of trying to figure out why, they throw a generic treatment at the horse and test for uncommon diseases. Save your money and find a new vet. Always remember to ask questions. "why are we putting her on a blood suppliment/what will it do" if they give you really generic answers they don't know what they're doing. 

I see vets make huge mistakes every day, especially ones who are new or have been at it too long. No one is perfect but it is our responsibility as owners to make sure we're paying professionals who know what they are doing and that goes for farriers, dentists, trainers, etc.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I've already switched vets lol Im a step ahead of you. 

He suggested a fecal count before going anywhere else. But that costs $65.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Do you have access to other vets in the area? Try to find a lower fecal count. I was lucky and only had to pay $25. 

How old are you? Do you have a job? Can you borrow money from a family member? Horses are definitely not cheap and with the vet not even knowing what is wrong with your horse, it could really start adding up for you.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I know the 2 main vet offices in maine. Both are around the same price. 

Im 17. No job and I cant barrow any money from a family member. Mom just passed away so were quite short on money right now.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

How about doing a home test? Fecal Worm Test Kit for Pets from SmartPak Equine


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I was looking into that 

anyone have experiences with it?


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I don't personally have any experience with home testing but I know that the people at smartpak are amazing. The customer service there is out of this world. If you call them and ask them about it, they will tell you all the advantages and disadvantages. I am not one to endorse any company but I would certainly endorse them!


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

we really need to know WHAT 14% feed she is getting... and the analysis off of that feed


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> I'm not sure she is a hard keeper, I've never known a paint to be a hard keeper. You probably work her more than Chance because Nova is a better horse.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ricci - believe it or not, I have THREE paints that are hard keepers! We finally have the son in law's stallion looking reasonably decent - he was a bag of bones, but it's taken nearly three months of the son in law going "omg" every time we fed him because there was so much feed in his bucket. He had free choice grass hay (not the best, but pretty good for our area) along with alfalfa pellets, beet pulp, and a 14% protein pelleted feed three times a day, and Red Cel twice a day. We have only just in the last couple of weeks been able to see decent coverage over his ribs - after we added Omega Shine twice a day to his diet. His backbone is no longer prominent. Thank heaven!

We have not one, but TWO paints that are sensitive to alfalfa. We knew that the colt, Junior, was - but turns out my own paint, DJ, is as well. That makes it even harder to put weight on them. We did find a source of Timothy hay pellets to suppliment their pasture (they are the only horses we have that are currently turned out, but the pasture is really sucky right now due to the drought). They get timothy hay pellets, beet pulp, and the 14% pelleted feed three times a day, Red Cel twice a day and just recently(within the last month), Omega Shine twice a day. It wasn't until after we added the Omega Shine that they really started to put weight on. They both still look pretty thin, but the improvement is definitely noticeable. Our farrier was out this weekend and was very pleased - he isn't really big on supliments, but he really doesn't want us to cut out the Omega Shine - something about it is what helped our hard keepers turn the corner. Even Dancer, who is an easy keeper normally, but is nursing now, is looking better, and she only gets fed twice a day. Then again, she's not a paint - she's a heaven only knows what.

HAF - you seriously might want to consider the Omega Shine as a suppliment - or at least something like it. It's ground flax (fat source), along with yeasts and psyllium. (Personally, I think the psyllium (sp?) has a lot to do with how much our guys have improved since they love to push their feed out of the buckets and eat it off the ground.) Omega Shine is also supposed to improve digestion - it sure seems to work for my guys.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

haven't used that particular test before, but when calling Smartpak, the questions to ask would be is this a float that uses centrifugation, what is the solution that is used, what do the results look like- positive or negative vs. count/gram of feces are very different results. The goal with deworming is actually lowering parasite load NOT eliminating parasites completely.

SO what you want to look for in a test is centrifugation with sugar solution fractionation resulting in a fecal egg count/g. Anything less than this isn't worth your money. 

One last option would be to call some labs (eg state lab, antech, etc.) and see if you can directly submit your fecal sample. I'm not sure if you can, but it might help lower the cost for you. Good luck.


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## SaratogaTB (Jun 14, 2010)

I have had weight issues with my OTTB. He cribs. Now that I added a cribbing collar, we is gaining weight! He eats instead, finally. Does she crib?

I also added Fat Cat to his feed, which helps. You can also try beet pulp.


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

A horse can hold a huge load of parasites before it effects weight...usually weight loss is simply the horse not getting enough food. Do you trust these people who keep him for you? Do other horses there look skinny? Did the vet check your horses teeth out? My horses get a coffee can of grain in the morning of 12% mix and in the evening they get the same...I just drop 800-1200 round bales of hay and let them eat as much as they want and when it gets low...I put another out...we even had to hay through some of the summer as our pastures didn't do as well this year. We have 50 acres and 4 horses. Make sure whoever is feeding your horse is actually feeding them like they say they are. You talked about your horse having muscle, muscle is what burns up the calories, so you might need to up the caloric intake to stabilize the effects of the excercise.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

how about asking the vet if you can work off services? It seems to me that this horse needs expert medical attention to find out what is going wrong and she is not getting it. You don't have money right now, but this horse could just lose weight until she dies unless you find out what is the problem. A fecal count could save her life, $65 is not much to ask to save her life. You say she is getting such and such feed? Why don't you know the names of the feed she is getting? You need to weigh a scoop of the feed on a scale and find out exactly how much she is getting, or make sure she is actually being fed that amount. Weigh the hay and find out how much three flakes weigh. Are you sure she is being fed her grain and its not just set out in buckets in the pasture? Does she have time to actually eat the grain and not have to shovel it in fast?
I think you need to seriously sit back and decide if you can afford to have a horse right now, she is sick, losing weight and you have no money to do the very basics and nobody to help you. 
talk to the vet, see if you can work some of your bill off. See if you can work around the stable and get paid so you can help this horse.
I know you love her, but she is going to keep losing weight to the point of dying if your vet doesn't find out what is wrong with her and she doesn't get treated soon.


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

I didn't even think of that...make sure the horse is being fed alone...if it gets fed with other horses, well they might just bully him out of it.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

She indicated she watched the herd and the horse was getting hay but didn't say how many times she observed this.

I don't think it's a good idea to feed horses in large groups. Where I board the horses eat in their stalls, then get turned out with some additional feed because of bad pasture grass. That way, everyone is assured to get their share of the food.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I think now may be a good time to get a job. What valid reason do you have not to have one? I was going to college full time, working full time, and had to take care of both my horses every day, twice a day. Time is certainly not an issue. You'll probably have to pay for her by yourself eventually anyway, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

She gets her morning grain/hay all by herself in her stall. 

Im looking for a job im asking around trust me its a work in progress. 

Nova today things seem to be looking up


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Looking up because her head is up or looking up because she looks better? She doesn't look that great in that picture either. I sure hope you can get it all figured out soon before she loses too much weight.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I agree, its time for a job after school and on weekends. I know the loss of a parent is horrible, I lost both my parents within six months of each other. But, life has to go on and you have to realize that you are responsible for the horse. She is counting on you to keep her healthy and alive.
If you don't know exactly what you are feeding, what the brand is, how much , in weight, the scoop of grain is, how much hay she is getting, then you are slacking off on your responsibility of horse care. If she needs more vet care, which obviously she does, then figure out a way to get her that care. I just don't get why your vet can't tell you what else is going on that she has a low red count. Did the vet do a complete chem/cbc count on the horse? Are her liver, kidneys, etc doing okay. That could be very serious, there is a reason for it. When we rescued Bones two years ago, he was anemic also. His other profiles(chem/cbc) showed issues but that went with malnutrition. However, we immediately wormed him. First was ivomec, then anthelcide, then we did a Power Pac . He was on antibiotics for weeks plus lixatinic(blood builder like Red Cell) but he got 20cc daily of it. 1 1/2 ounce of Red Cell doesn't sound like much to help your mare get over her anemia, the bottle states 2 ounces daily for a horse in training, and she is ill and stressed so I would think at least needs that much.
I just think you need to reevaluate what she is eating and how much. Not a guess but actual weights and amounts of feed. Have her penned up seperately twice a day to eat at her own speed and be able to get some good from her food.
I would do more than a fecal count, have a complete chem/cbc profile run and find out what kind of issues your horse has.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Dont worry things are getting looked into and things are being done. Im talking to my old barn owner and my vet together to try and work something out. 

Shes getting 1 1/2 coffee can sized scoops of performance grain? I have yet to get the feed tag. New horses im training just came to the barn in the past two days so its been crazy.

Yes she got a complete blood panel done.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

what else did her blood panel show? If she is anemic, then some of the other results will be off. Can you write them down and post them? I would be curious to see what they are.

Is it a five pound coffee can? A one pound coffee can? See, you can't judge the amount she is getting by using a coffee can unless you weigh it full of grain and see exactly how much she is getting. I don't understand why you don't know what she is getting? Whats the name? It could be a good feed or a generic feed.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I was told at some point but I honestly forgot shes been changed from 3 different feeds. o.o

Im gonna get the feed tag. 

She got tested like a month ago all I know is that it was low red blood count most likely caused from the anoplasmosis. Nothing else showed up.


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## TurnNBurn625 (Aug 19, 2010)

have you got her on 10/10 feed. i had a tb that had lost tons of weight. and with just being in the pasture. and getting 1 1/2 almost 2 scoops of the 10/10 he gained the most of his weight back in less than 6 months. we also had hoof issues. tb hooves dont hold up as well in tenn for some reason. he did really great on the 10/10.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

HorsesAreForever said:


> Shes getting 1 1/2 coffee can sized scoops of performance grain?


Are you asking us?


Why not ask at the barn? You are there every day to ride her for hours, why not take a few minutes and ask the barn owner/manager what the grain she is fed is? 

And like Wyominggrandma points out. Coffee cans come in various sizes too.


The long and short of it it, she needs more food. If she is loosing weight she needs more food (preferably after you have figured out her medical issues). 

Does this barn not offer feedings 2x per day?


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

I don't know how long you have had this horse but you said you have switched feed 3X's thus far???? It takes weeks to switch feeds and it is a pain in the ****. You have to do it gradually, a quarter measure at a time, and let the horses digestive tract adjust to the new food. These forums are a great way to get some info BUT sometimes playing the guessing game can end up a tragedy. Call your vet and be honest, vets will sometimes work out payment plans. The vet will also be able to tell you EXACTLY what feed to put the horse on, and EXACTLY how much it needs. I just find this whole thing confusing. Why would people put out 1 bale of hay 5 times a day. We have a big hay keeper thing we put our hay in so the horses don't poo and trample it into the dirt - and yes when I have to deal with square bales it goes in there too. I just see 6 horses getting one bale and I see maybe two of them getting to eat, because the rest would be standing around waiting for their turn. If your horse is more submissive dear, he isn't getting anything to eat. Get a vet ASAP...and hey if it turns out that this barn where your horse is kept is the reason the horse is losing weight...GET MAD.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

herdbound said:


> I don't know how long you have had this horse


The OP bought this horse in the end of April of this year. 

So you are right, it seems weird that her feed has been changed that many times in four or five months.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Ditch the grain based feed. Find a good high fat low NSC feed like Triple Crown Senior. NOT PURINA. 

be sure the horse is getting the PROPER amount WEIGHT wise of said feed.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I think there is alot more to this whole story than what we are hearing. 
I know a vet costs money, but I don't think any vet anywhere is going to let a horse die because the owner couldn't pay up front. They will usually work out something. 
And she is boarding at a barn, is riding this horse hard every day and yet doesn't know the amounts and name of the grain being fed? Or exactly how much hay is being fed to a group of horses? And it has changed 3 times in 5 months? Just changed whilly nilly? 
Something does not add up here. We are not being told the whole story or things are being left out in the communication with the forum.


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

If this horse goes into winter down in weight, I would hate to see it in the spring. We are in fall now, this is no time to have a skinny horse.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

She got changed twice technically. 

From the feed she was on b4 I got her

From Sprint endurence + Hay pellets 

to what shes on now.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

No shes not getting worked hard everyday anymore 

She gets worked every other day for 20 mins at the w/t in the round pen thats it. Sometimes not even that now.

If you didnt read my post things are being looked into and worked out.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

HorsesAreForever said:


> No shes not getting worked hard everyday anymore
> 
> She gets worked every other day for 20 mins at the w/t in the round pen thats it. Sometimes not even that now.


So, in the last two or three days you have changed her work load from a couple hours per day to 20 minutes of walk trot in the round pen every other day?



This is a good case of "If you tell the truth you do not have to have a good memory".

Just give real facts and people will gladly help you. Changing the story every time you are questioned does no one any good. For sure it does not help your mare at all.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I had a hard keeper where even a sniff of cold would have her loosing weight.
I rug her now from September roughly she gets stabled each night with to much hay so she can eat at her leisure.
I give 2heaped kg scoops of beetpulp and grass nuts(advice from this forum) in it i add ACV and electrolites.
Nutrtion and weight gain is not something to play with it lowers your horses defences, there feet become brittle etc.
YOu need to power pack this mare, Get a detailed and specialised feed regime from your vet, and STOP riding her until she recovers some weight. 
ALso buy a weight tape and weigh her on a weekly basis record it down so you can track her weekly gain until she is at the ideal


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> If the bales only way 30 lbs give or take and one bale is getting fed to six horses, that is only 5lbs per horse.


2 Bales of hay, 5x a day would be 50lbs per horse, which would have any horse who was otherwise healthy way above a 5 on the horse body condition scale. Remember, she said 1 bale 5x per day...

Are you certain that they are feeding this much? Horses who are on grain/hay should not need more than 18lbs of hay (it depends on their size, but my horses are 16 and 16.3 and they get about 17lbs of hay per day plus a mixed grain). Most of the horses at our farm get about 15-16 lbs hay per day and grain (our horses are the largest at our farm) and they are quite rotund, haha. We do have one hard keeper that gets 4 additional lbs of alfalfa pellets per day (in addition to 16lbs of hay), 8lbs of senior feed and the vet will be coming out to float her teeth and discuss options to put more meat on her bones before winter (we can see her ribs a bit, and she is 20+). 

Your horse ***sounds*** like she is getting fed a rediculous amount accoording to what you have posted... I would be doing some more research into this. I highly doubt the barn is putting out that many WHOLE bales of hay per day, especially if they have pasture... and if they are, it kind of sounds like they don't really know what they are doing and why they are doing it specifically... I would stop out a couple times a day, sporadically for a week or so and see if there is actually any hay left. With that much being supposedly fed, there would ALWAYS be some hay left where it is supposedly thrown, even if their pasture is all dried up. 

Good luck. I second the teeth floating suggestion, and while the vet is there discuss other feed options that he might be aware of, or ask for a referal to a equine nutritionist. You can actually feed a horse a whole lot of food that isn't exactly what their body needs (poor quality hay, etc), and it will result in poor ability to digest their feed over time, and therefore they will lose weight no matter whether or not you add in more.

EDIT: If they are indeed putting out that many bales, do they split them and put them in 6 separate, distanced piles so each horse can have a pile, even if they get run off of one? Or, do they just throw out the bale and leave it where it falls?


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

Peggysue said:


> Ditch the grain based feed. Find a good high fat low NSC feed like Triple Crown Senior. NOT PURINA.


Kent has phased out Triple Crown. Regarding the horse who dropped a bit of weight at our barn this summer, I've done A TON of research into different grains and whatnot... she gets HOTHOTHOT easily and so find something with LOW STARCH! I was very excited to find the Triple Crown Senior (and actually, Triple Crown Complete seems to have the most balanced, and higher fat/lower starch content), then I called our elevator and they informed me that YES, they do still have Triple Crown, but they can't buy anymore because Kent not only does not make it, they did NOT sell it to another company, it's just GONE  

Peggysue is right, while Purina Senior is great for some horses, it has a high sugar/starch content and should not ever be fed as a complete feed without adding more fiber (such as hay pellets or cubes), no matter the horse. 

Find a good balanced grain/concentrate and if she is still not maintaining or even losing, try introducing Omegatin. We had a young horse from a boarder come straight from an Amish farm - she was skin and bones... we put her on a 12% and added Omegatin (NSH is 13-something, which is actually lower than Dynasty Senior ::20%ish NSH:: and she is looking great. I would suggest finding something you think will work, and then discussing it with your vet.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I just don't get it. You state she is used hard, now she is worked 20 minutes in the round pen a couple times a week. You say " it is taken care of" Okay if this is all taken care of, why are you saying she is still losing weight?
Why don't you have a clue what is being fed to this mare? And I guess my biggest question is " WHY are you even working her at all when she is losing weight and you can't seem to put it back on????
She doesn't need ANY exercise at all, it will not hurt her a bit to not be used and to be fed while she is getting better. Quit working her and let her be, feed her and help her gain weight, don't take it off by work. I have had horses andknown horses that have been laid off for MONTHS and it didn't hurt them one bit, yet you yourself states this horse is still losing weight, getting fed this much food and yet you still go out and work her constantly.
Once we rescued Bones, who was in fact 500-600lbs underweight and dying, treated him, floated his teeth,wormed him and I fed him by himself 6-8 times a day small amounts of hay/grass(until he could eat it freely and not cause a digestive upset due to starvation) and 14lbs of senior feed daily you could see the weight gain almost daily. His spine covered up, his rib cage connections to the spine started rounding out, his neck filled out, his ribs slowly covered up, it was a daily change. Within 5 weeks he look almost like a horse and not a cow.
I still stand by the fact that all is not being said, you are changing your story and not tell the truth. Something is up and its not your horses weight.


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

I don't know what kind of "barn" this horse is staying at but it sounds REALLY unprofessional, in fact, maybe even neglectful and abusive. That horse is ribby to say the least and it does take a little time for a horse to get in that shape, why didn't someone do something BEFORE it got that bad???? It's not the worst I have seen, but trust me it is on its way. My vet, whom I love to death, says the reason most horses are underweight is simply not enough food. There are other valid reasons, but they are rarely the cause of a skinny horse. Usually it is just lack of nourishment. I can't believe the ignorance some people have about the fact that proper nutrition is the KEY to having a healthy horse. Proper nutrition is important for the eyes, the kidneys, the hooves, EVERYTHING...just like humans. These people think saving money by not feeding right is smart...it costs sooooooooooo much more to yo-yo horses like that. It's really hard on thier bodies. Yes there are hardkeepers, I won't debate that fact they are a handful at best in this problem, a lot of the time it is just the horse isn't getting food. Either A) The human isn't providing it for it B)The horse has a medical condition that keeps it from eating like tooth problems or C) The horse gets bullied out of it's portion. 

A horse is a survivor and people exploit it's natural ability to survive in **** poor conditions sometimes. It isn't right AT ALL. The more I think about this post the more P.O'd I am getting. Nutrition is the FOUNDATION for health, how could you say you care and not even know what the heck is going on with that fundamental need. If someone else was taking care of my horse and her condition started to plummit I would be riding them till I got answers. Not excuses- ANSWERS. Instead of riding the poor thing, I think you should be busy riding these people for answers...


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> I just don't get it...
> I still stand by the fact that all is not being said, you are changing your story and not telling the truth. Something is up and its not your horses weight.


I second this, after reading through the remainder of the entire thread. I believe that, even if you plan to board a horse, you should NOT EVER get an animal you don't know the most minute details about regarding their care.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

leonalee said:


> Kent has phased out Triple Crown. Regarding the horse who dropped a bit of weight at our barn this summer, I've done A TON of research into different grains and whatnot... she gets HOTHOTHOT easily and so find something with LOW STARCH! I was very excited to find the Triple Crown Senior (and actually, Triple Crown Complete seems to have the most balanced, and higher fat/lower starch content), then I called our elevator and they informed me that YES, they do still have Triple Crown, but they can't buy anymore because Kent not only does not make it, they did NOT sell it to another company, it's just GONE
> 
> .


 
Nutrena dealers should now be able to get the Triple Crown products that Kent carried


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## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

Really? Our elevator guys must have said they were no longer making it because they don't actually carry Nutrena - I'm so glad to know that now! YAY!


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Kent is no longer making Triple Crown products the contract was no renewed it was given to Nutrena ... 

You might look at Kent's Secure the new one they came out with the Sentinal line looks good too.


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

Ok, So I read this ENTIRE thread. If you guys want to help the mare (I'm assuming you're all the animal lovers I am.) Then maybe instead of putting this poor girl on the defensive, give her advice. I mean, reading here, if it were me in her position, I would be scared to even post on this thread.. Just saying... 

Also from reading the whole thread, *here's my personal advice.* Stop working her. If you feel you need to do something with her, hand walk her for 5 or ten minutes, and just talk to her, and be with her. While you're not working her, here's your chance to really get a great bond with her. Sit in the pasture with her, or in her stall, read a book, and just RELAX. If your mare is stressed out at all, you being relaxed around her will calm her down. Stress can cause weight loss. 
Now, for weight gain, we had a ribby gelding come in here the other day for training, and here's what he's being fed. (Regular "scoops" you find at a typical barn 3 Quart Horse Feed Scoop - 5051501 | Tractor Supply Company ) He gets 1/2 Beet pulp, 1/4 alfalfa pellets, and 1/4 oats. He ALSO gets... Minerals, Flax, 1 squirt of Hemp oil, and Redman's Salt (Little 1/4 cup scoops I think are about the size) We wet the food with HOT water, and let it sit for at least one hour.

Wetting the feed helps with digestion, lessens the chance of colic, and helps with water intake. 

Oh, and as for a job, if you're training horses, why aren't you getting paid for it?


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

RogueMare - Thank you so much.  People who are on my side have only been PMing me.. so its nice to have someone actually post it in my thread. 

I am getting paid for the training but its going towards my board.  
Hopefully by saturday ill have a 2nd job on weekends. 

Nova is getting started on beat pulp tomorrow morning, and upping her oil intake a bit, I found out she was only getting about 3 tablespoons of it. 

Heres the feed tag: 
shes on a scoop and a half of Equi-Pro E-Tec?? Again she also gets teh Oil, Red Blood Cell, and Garlic.

It features Omega 3 
Protein is MIN 14 Pct 
Crude Fat is MIN 8 Pct
Crude Fiber is MAX 18 pct
Calcium: MIN 0.95 pct
Calcium: MAX 1.25 pct
Phosphorus: MIN 0.65 pct
Zinc: MIN 180.00 PPM
Copper: MIN 60.00 PPM 
Vit A: MIN 6,800.00 IU/LB
Vit E: MIN 130.00 IU/LB 
Selenium: MIN 0.70 PPM


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

You know, the horse is thin, but I highly doubt it is because she was getting 1-2 hours of work a day. I am surprised people think that is a lot of riding and enough to make her thin.

I have one good trail horse (since my other one is a nursing mommy at the moment) and I ride the guy anywhere from 3-5 hours a day, 4-5 days a week, and he is actually on the chubby side! 

I guess what I am saying is this, the horse is either a) not getting enough proper nutrition or b) has a medical condition. But she is not being worked into the ground, far from it. I would think a couple hours riding a day is a very healthy level of exercise for a horse.

So I would try to up her feed, with maybe some alfalfa and/or a fat supplement, and see if that helps. (Although everyone seems to be scared of it, I feed a good deal of alfalfa without any problems). 

Hopefully it IS just a lack of feed and not a medical problem. That would actually be the best case senario!


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

^^^ I totally agree. 

I would like to hear back from everyone that wants you to stop working her in about 4 months. When she is fat and hasn't been worked in months. Im sure the tune will change a little. Fresh off of a few month lay off with lots and lots of groceries in her...im sure she is going to be FRESH.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

You really need to start weighing the feed, not going by "scoops" or "flakes."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

I'm not to good with feed analysis. Maybe someone that is can jump in. What kind of oil was it she's getting? Make sure anything your introducing or taking out is slowly introduced. Anything abrupt can hurt your horses digestive system, and cause more problems than help. 

And on weighing the feed, we feed almost 100 horses twice a day, and we don't weigh... I imagine it would be hell if we did. With one horse I can how much a pain itw ould be having to PAY for something to weigh it with, when she's already short on money.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

What size scoop are they using?? 
How many lbs of feed is she getting and how many lbs is she suppose to be getting??

Free Choice Hay 
Instead of Oil I would use Rice Bran as it does NOT interfer with the aborsation of other nutritients like oils will
Beet Pulp she can have up to 6lbs daily...this is ALOT of beet pulp

You really NEED to feed by weight not scoops

If she were mine I would put her on Poulin MVP Supplement for the nutrition provided at 1 1/2 LBS per day 

I would also add in about 1lbof ALfalfa pellets for the added Lysine then I would add in about 1lb of Rice Bran for added calories and fat.. UNTIL she gains her weight


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

you dont' have to weigh EVERY feeding ... I weigh my first serving from each new bag.. to insure they are getting what they are suppose to be getting. 

an average it is 1.25lbs per quart with pelleted feeds.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

*RogueMare*, you only need to weigh once per new bag of feed to get a base weight, then you know exactly how much (weight) you are feeding every time. As for bales, you should know approximately how much each bale weighs, and therefore can figure out how many flakes per horse is appropriate. You don't need to weigh every bale or every scoop of feed.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> ^^^ I totally agree.
> 
> I would like to hear back from everyone that wants you to stop working her in about 4 months. When she is fat and hasn't been worked in months. Im sure the tune will change a little. Fresh off of a few month lay off with lots and lots of groceries in her...im sure she is going to be FRESH.



I did not go back and read my posts so I am not sure if I suggested not riding. If I did what I meant was, she is simply not getting enough food for the amount of work she is getting. If you are not willing to give her more food then she has to have less work.

I do not think that two hours per day is too much work for a healthy horse. Not at all. It is too much if the horse is not getting enough calories to maintain its weight with that much work and the owner is not willing to make accommodations for the horse to get more calories.


Rogue, this OP has a history that you might not know. Maybe you noticed it in this thread. She posts a question, she is offered sound advice (which was she was here, time and time and time again) and then she changes the story, more advice is given to fit the new story and the story changes again. Lather, rinse, repeat.




Charis said:


> *RogueMare*, you only need to weigh once per new bag of feed to get a base weight, then you know exactly how much (weight) you are feeding every time. As for bales, you should know approximately how much each bale weighs, and therefore can figure out how many flakes per horse is appropriate. You don't need to weigh every bale or every scoop of feed.


This!

I actually weighed my grain, poured it into my scoop and put a line on the scoop for one pound of those pellets, another line for 2 pounds of those pellets. (Different horses, different amounts, hence the two lines.)

Is it perfect every time? Probably not. But much closer to knowing the actual amount of grain my horse is getting than someone who does not even know what size scoop they are using.


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

Thankyou Behind (sounds like I'm talking to my bum..anyways) I don't know her history. So I only judged it from this thread. And well, you can see why I was a little taken aback when I saw everyones responses to her. 

I've never weighed feed, and I've never had an issue. But- I've never had a hard keeper either.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I don't think the OP has a hard keeper. I think she is working this horse to death, even having a low blood count, and not feeding her enough. 
Also Rogemare, she doesn't have to PAY for something to weigh the feed in. as I wrote earlier, get a bucket, weigh it on a bathroom scale, mark the bucket to the amount of feed she means, then fill it to the correct line and pour it in the grain box to feed her. most everyone has a scale to weigh themselves, most everyone has a bucket laying around.
Instead of complaining her horse is losing weight, she needs to put in a bit of effort to feed her correctly and let the poor horse alone to gain weight without using her at all, just feed her


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> Also Rogemare, she doesn't have to PAY for something to weigh the feed in. as I wrote earlier, get a bucket, weigh it on a bathroom scale, mark the bucket to the amount of feed she means, then fill it to the correct line and pour it in the grain box to feed her. most everyone has a scale to weigh themselves, most everyone has a bucket laying around.


I suggested another free way to weigh her feed too. Put it in a ziploc bag and carry right into Walmart or your local grocery store and toss it onto a scale in the produce department.

Many feed stores have scales. If they sell bulk seeds they for sure have one. Just ask them to weigh your baggies for you.

This is for sure a case of where there is a will there is a way.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Theres not way in hell im working this horse to death! 

Shes been off of work for 2 weeks! Im not stupid whyoming. I have delt with under weight horses before. I believe she is a hard keeper.

Shes getting Vegi oil

Shes now getting a good amount of beet pulp in her feed now.

and the scoop thingy says 1 lb but I know the grain weighs more.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Unfortunately, with so many changes to what you have said in this thread, I'm confused, and not quite sure if you are being truthful about this whole thing.

I just hope the horse gets the care it needs soon and gets better.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Why would I lie?

I was saying that she was being worked for 2 hrs a day w/t under saddle, then I decided to just do groundwork w/t in the RP for 20 mins. but for the past week shes been off completely. 

I've just been bringing her in to feed her a extra flake of hay and a scoop of grain.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I don't know, that's a question you have to answer, but it sure doesn't seem truthful. You read other people that have said the same thing in this thread.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

ok well I got some answers and I have people here in person helping so maybe ill post pictures when she starts gaining some weight.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I don't see how everyone thinks she's working the horse to death, even if she were riding two hours a day. I rode almost 6 hours yesterday (14 miles) and my horse a bit overweight, if anything. I just don't think it is possible for her to ride that much weight off the horse. 

I think the horse either isn't getting high enough quality/quantity hay and/or feed, OR the horse has a medical problem that hasn't been diagnosed yet. 

I don't even know "HorsesAreForever" so I have no reason to defend her, but I think you guys are being a little hard on her. She cares about the horse or she wouldn't be post here for help, right? 

I assume she is pretty young, and young people aren't always as articulate as an adult, but I really have no reason to think she is lying. 

My grandma used to say "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it."

What if later you found out the horse has a serious medical problem. Would you change your tune? I had a friend who couldn't keep weight on a horse, and all her other horses were fat. The vet ran blood tests (which were off-kilter, but I don't remember what was wrong with them), tried some different treatment strategies and nothing worked. Finally, she had to put the horse down because it was wasting away and couldn't gain weight. I hope that isn't the case here, but gee, it's always possible, now isn't it?


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

People encouraged her to contact the vet, get fecal count and other stuff. If you read the posts you would understand why many people are having a hard time believing her.

You can ride weight off of a horse if you aren't feeding them enough or the good quality hay. It's not rocket science.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Well if people would actually READ my posts you guys would realize i AM working with my vet and my barn owner and my last barn owner to figure this out. 

Im going to be getting a fecal test as soon as I get the money. Which hopefully by next week i may have a job.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

In post 101 she gets nasty to me stating " I'm not stupid wyoming, she has been off work for two weeks". Yet in post 103, she says, she has been off for a week"
Trailhorserider, the OP also states her vet says this horse has a low blood count, yet she continued to ride her/exercise her/lunge her, WHILE she was still losing weight. Everyone asked her if she has got a recent blood work, more vet work, a fecal count, and she said" it cotst $65 and she could not afford it. I work for a vet, I keep suggesting that SOMETHING is wrong with this horse, a low blood count is low for a reason, but the OP said" 1 1/2 oz of Red Cell is what she is getting for that. I asked "what did the vet say is causing the low count and never got an answer. 
Everyone has given some thoughts about this, some advice, and she was told to measure her food, yet she just said" the scoop says 1lb, but I know it weighs more than that... She would not even take our suggestions about getting a bathroom scale, or taking the food into a Walmart and REALLY measure the food.
The OP doesn't want to really see there is an issue with this horse, a horse that is being as well fed as she says she is, and is losing weight , has something medical going on. Yet, the OP asked for advice, got lots of good advice from very knowledgable folks and now says " 
ok well I got some answers and I have people here in person helping so maybe ill post pictures when she starts gaining some weight"
So, good luck to her horse, I hope she ends up being okay.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I gave you an answer.. she had a low blood count because of anoplasmosis. 
I JUST read the post about weighting the food. 

She has not lost any more weight shes more or less maintaining the weight shes at.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Okay novas been off REAL work for a week and 1/2 possibly two im not sure when I stopped riding her for 2 hrs each day. I can ask my bf if it means that much. 

SHes been off COMPLETELY for about 4-5 days. 
Shes got beet pulp added to her food and is getting a extra flake or two, and a extra scoop of grain added every day to her feed.

Ill get a fecal exam once I have the money! Right now im doing what I can till then. Ill be getting a job soon if everything goes as planned.

She hasnt lost any more weight shes maintaining.. which is better. Shes deffinatly not wasteing away.

Her weight loss is reminding me of a horse I had to put down 2 years ago. 

TRUST ME this mare means a lot to me when i get the money im gonna have a vet do a fullllll exam on her. but honestly I cant add anymore on to the almost $800 I owe, otherwise I would.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Doesn't matter to me at all. Just don't get nasty when I or someone else comments on something you say, then you get mad and deny it.
Good luck with your horse.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Wyoming, you did your best and gave good advice as did the others.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I have not denyed anything.

i've taken peoples advice.. what do you think i ment when i said I got some answers?


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## Shenandoah (Aug 9, 2010)

HorsesAreForever said:


> She has not lost any more weight shes more or less maintaining the weight shes at.


One week ago you started a thread (THIS thread!) titled "Losing more and more weight!"
Now one week later, you say she's not losing weight.

I don't think one week is enough time to tell if she's really switched from losing to maintaining. So which is it?


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

No offense but does this thread really surprise you guys? 

Anywho...add hay, add a muscle/protein supplement like pure rice bran, fat cat, omegatin, etc and hand walk her if you must. Getting weight on her, at least 150-200 lbs for the winter is your biggest priority here. Instead of doing vet work just up her nutrient intake and see if that affects anything. A blood panel on a nutrient deprived horse is going to look just like a human that's thin. You're going to get random false positives as anything in the horse's blood stream that is usually dormant is going to come out since the body is weak. Feed her as much hay as you can, marginally up her concentrates and find a supplement (I suggest Fat Cat as it's always worked for me in the past) and give her 3-4 weeks. She's not going to magically add weight overnight so changing your feeding routine every 3 days when she doesn't look better is NOT going to help her, it will hurt her. You also don't want to just start pounding the oils or more grain into her because then colic becomes a concern. Slowly up her intake over 1-2 weeks and then give it 3-5 to see if there's any results. It also wouldn't hurt to add a little salt to her feed so that she takes in enough water to balance the increase in forage and concentrates she is going to be eating.

IF you up the feed intake and she STILL is not putting on weight or is losing weight THEN you do a full vet work up. If you change EVERYTHING at once and start testing for everything under the sun you're going to waste a lot of money, get really inconclusive results and get frustrated. Start with the simple solution and go from there. Yes she's thin, but going another 3-4 weeks getting more nutrients is not going to kill her even if there is an underlying medical condition.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

rice bran, fat cat and omegetin are all FAT supplements NOT protein or really much nutrition.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Taken from the makers of Fat-Cat. Fat-Cat has been engineered to provide all horses with a powerful blend of nutrients designed to enhance muscularity, soundness, and peak fitness. Offers a precise combination of high-quality proteins with essential amino acids and energy packed carbohydrates to boost muscle and strength development. Essential fatty acids omega-3 and omega-6 help your horse with endurance, higher performance levels, and improved appearance of skin and coat. It contains biotin, L-lysine and DL-methionine for improved hoof strength, structure and health. Loaded with body building nutrients and vitamins and minerals to achieve great gains in stamina, size, strength and leanness. Also contains digestive aiding enzymes and microflora for complete nutrient breakdown and assimilation by the body. 

Excerpted from Omegatin. With OMEGATIN® , a patent-pending process allows the pelleting of high-fat ingredients with the necessary protein, mineral, and vitamin sources. The result is a balanced complete grain mix. 

I meant that a balanced feed additive that incorporates amino acids, protein and fat is more balanced and will help much better than feeding straight fat (oils) since she is already feeding a concentrate. It allows the body to utilize everything and is easier for the body to break down and use than straight fat.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

they can SAY what they want but there isn't enough in it to make a difference .. you have to learn to read the labels and figure what they are actually getting. 

She needs a good high nutrition low nsc ration that covers her needs without hyping her up.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

we are keeping her on soaked beet pulp for a while in her normal feed and giving her a extra flake or 2 of hay every day as well as a extra scoop of grain. Which means shes now getting grain 2 times a day.

Were watching her weight closely im going out to get weight tape today and gonna start weighing her every week.

If things dont improve with beet pulp we will try something else.


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## TurnNBurn625 (Aug 19, 2010)

it takes a while for any horse to gain weight. it took 7 months for one of the horses im taking care of (a TB) to look just half way decent. he was just on 10/10 feed and not worked at all. he was just left out in the pasture to graze.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I still don't understand why she is not being free fed all the hay she can eat right now. Keep the manger or hay net FULL of hay, let her eat 24/7. And again, HOW much grain is she getting in WEIGHT???? 2 lbs, 5lbs, ? Not scoops, but pounds?


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

HorsesAreForever said:


> Okay novas been off REAL work for a week and 1/2 possibly two im not sure when I stopped riding her for 2 hrs each day. I can ask my bf if it means that much.
> 
> SHes been off COMPLETELY for about 4-5 days.
> Shes got beet pulp added to her food and is getting a extra flake or two, and a extra scoop of grain added every day to her feed.
> ...


How about you start dealing in exacts. Why does your bf know about your horse's work schedule, H*orsesAreForever*, but not you? An extra flake 'or two' - which one is it? An extra 'scoop' of feed? How about you start taking your horse seriously. There has been lots of good advice on this thread, but you're ignoring it; case in point that many people have told you about weighing your feed, not just one person. I get that you're young, but that's no excuse. Why doesn't your last sentence scare you into action? Goodness.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I am beginning to wonder if this is all drama.
She can't seem to remember anything about when she quit working the horse, she can ask her bf if its important? She feeds an extra flake, she thinks, she feeds and extra scoop, she thinks.. 
And her last statement about having to put a horse to sleep that was losing weight like this one???? Um, if she had already lost a horse to weight loss, and another horse was losing weight,and she can't seem to give honest answers, then either she should not even OWN a horse because she doesn't seem to know how much to feed a horse or is not taking anything seriously enough.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Off topic alert - but Wyoming that dog in your avatar is cool, what is it? Very handsome. We have dog obedience classes at our barn two evenings a week. I love watching them do all the obstacles. They have a see saw and it's interesting watching the little dogs go over it. And the dogs that go in the tunnel but don't want to come out!


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

He is a Bernese Mountain Dog , name is Windriders Tanks Alot. His call name is Sherman. He is barely a year old and already weighs 110lbs. 
They remind me of draft horses: big, sweet and lovable.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Very cool! I love watching the Dog Championships - Eukanuba something or other?? 

Anyway, keep seeing the avatar and just wanted to find out. Thanks!

Okay back to your regularly scheduled topic!

:clap:


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

HorsesAreForever said:


> She hasnt lost any more weight shes maintaining.





HorsesAreForever said:


> Were watching her weight closely im going out to get weight tape today and gonna start weighing her every week.


The first statement is completely inaccurate without using a weight tape. A weight tape needs to be used VERY CAREFULLY, because moving it half an inch further forward or backward will automatically cause your horse to gain or lose 50+ lbs. Measure her weekly, at the same time, on the same day. And be VERY EXACT. Measure her three times at once, to be sure you are getting consistent placings. And furthermore, KEEP A LOG. Don't try to remember, write it down. Write down what she is being fed EVERY DAY, write down ANY changes you notice visually [a brighter eye, a healtheir coat, filling out in the loins, etc] and ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS WRITE DOWN THE WEIGHT EVERY WEEK.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Okay the horse that got put down was Will. He was losing weight becaue he had cancer masses in the back of his legs. How about we ask for facts before we judge on that. He ended up losing weight and going stiff and everything else. We had the vet out every week, eventually he needed to be put down. 

I never said I THINK i feed her a extra scoop of grain or a flake of hay. 

Wyoming it would be great if you would stop posting here.. becaue obviously your trying to start problems. 

Obviously if I didnt care I wouldnt have posted here... obviously if I didnt care I wouldnt have started feeding her extra hay and grain as well as adding beet pulp to her feed.. obviously if I didnt care I wouldnt have contacted my old barn owner to get her opinion on what she thought I could do seeing that she didnt have a weight problem at that barn. Obviously if I didnt care I wouldnt have contact my vet and got his opinions. Obviously if I didnt care I wouldnt be looking for a job so I can afford the future vet care my horse is going to need. Obviously if I didnt care I wouldnt have compeltely stopped working with her and just hang out with her for an hour or more a day so she can get her weight back. Obviously If I didnt care I wouldnt have bought the extra wormers I was asked to put into Nova by a vet for precaution reasons. 

So nope I quess I shouldnt own a horse.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Btw ty you ricci Ill start bringing a note pad with me to the barn so i can start logging things down.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

HAF- people are trying to really help you but without accurate information thats not going to help you one bit. Many members here rehabilitate rescue horses and know how detrimental weight loss is dont forget you cant see whats going on inside your horse.
YOu need to write out everything(for yourself or here whichever) for eg this is what we do with new horses



NAME-
AGE-
BREED-
HEIGHT-
WEIGHT NOW-
NEED TO GAIN-
UTD ON VET-
LAST WORMED-
WHAT FEED-
HOW MUCH-
HOW OFTEN-
WEIGHT OF HAY-
HOW OFTEN-
HOW MUCH EXERCISE IF ANY-
TURNOUT-


then write in the date you record this inforamtion in a specific copy for that horse and reweigh them every week. Also everytime you get new hay and feed weigh it. ITs the little stuff like record keeping keeps your horse in good shaoe


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I just asked, along with ALL of us, why she is not being free fed? Why you are not giving weights of feed that you are feeding her so everyone on this forum can help you. Giving "I am giving a flake or two more, she is getting a scoop or two more" doesn't say much. 
You mentioned that "this reminds me of my horse that I had to put down when ti started losing weight." TWO of us suggested that maybe you need to find out what the problem is with this mare. You stated the other horse had cancer, well when an animal, any kind of animal, keeps losing weight for no apparent reason when it is being fed enough food, then SOMETHING is wrong with the animal.
I have rescued horses that were over 500 lbs underweight and with proper vet care and food, he was gaining weight DAILY, not losing it.
So HAF,I will not stop posting here, I have done nothing wrong. Maybe you need to be a bit more respectful to people who are trying to help you and realize we have YEARS of more experience than you do.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

"Her weight loss is reminding me of a horse I had to put down 2 years ago
"
That is EXACTLY what you said in your post, so it is not a far thought that maybe there was a problem with that horse as well. YOU never said it was dying of cancer, you just said"her weight loss is reminding me of a horse I had to put down 2 years ago".


I realize she means alot to you, so what is wrong when I, along with others simply ask" How much are you feeding her BY WEIGHT". A flake extra here and a scoop extra here mean nothing if you don't KNOW what the food weighs. One flake can weigh 2 pounds of hay, the next can weigh 1 lb or 5 lbs. One scoop of this feed can weigh 3 lbs, but the next feed can weigh 1 lb, depending on how much per lb the food is worth for the horses weight.
I am not saying you are not treating your horse right, just asking questions, the same questions all of us have asked. When trying to put weight on an animal, you need to know exactly how much you are feeding every single feeding, every single day. I also asked simply why she is not being fed free choice hay daily by herself so she can eat anytime she wants to. 
Why was that such a "nasty" question?
As I said before, I won't stop posting to this PUBLIC forum because all I did was ask you some questions and try to help you with your horse. If you have decided to pick me out of the crowd of answers because I asked some honest questions and gave some honest replies, then be all means, don't reply to my posts or read them. Stick with the ones that say what you want to hear.
I have owned horses all my LONG LONG life and have learned alot about feed and feeding from working years and years with trainers and veterinarians, but hey, I am sure I am not smart enough to give good advice.


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

wyominggrandma I always shocked that people ask for your help, then when you give it, they get all po'd and stomp off. I am still wondering how you can have a horse without a job...that to me is the biggest question I have for this young lady. How do you do that?


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

careful, she is going to tell you to quit writing on the forum like she did me. She doesn't like anyone to question her.
Horses cost money no doubt about that.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

HAF, you do need to get exacts. Take the scale out of your bathroom and bring it to the barn. Get one at the grocery store, I'm POSITIVE you can find one for less than $10. Get someone to let you borrow one or buy you one if you can't. To measure grain [whatever grain that may be, because you haven't told us yet], weigh a bucket, then add the grain. Subtract the weight of the bucket and ta da! The weight of the grain. For hay, weigh yourself, then weigh yourself holding the hay she is receiving per meal. Again, subtract your weight, and then you know how much the hay weighs. Weigh the hay for a few meals so you can really get a feel of it and know it's consistent. Flakes of hay aren't uniform, as wyoming mentioned. One is very small, one is very heavy.

You need to step back and quit thinking about yourself. You don't matter, YOUR HORSE matters. You are getting offended and defensive, and you aren't giving us any information to go off of, nor are you telling us what you are doing, exactly, to help Nova. Swallow your pride, take the time to write out a detailed post and give us the information we've been asking for for 14 pages if you want us to help you. We are not "fighting" you, we are fighting for your horse. When you're older, you'll see how selfish you're being now, turning this thread into a dramatic scene rather then help your horse. We're grasping at straw trying to help you help Nova, but it's all just a shot in the dark without even knowing what you're feeding her.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I weighed her today and she weights 1,111 lbs which is already an improvement since the day I bought her. When I bought her she was 1,024 lbs.

Once again my posts are not being read.. I did tell you teh grain shes getting. 1 1/2 scoops of equi pro e tec grain. I also wrote out the feed tag. 

Im only 17 so I still live at home with my aunt she helps pay for the horse, she pays board and I pay vet farrier ect.

I dont have a bathroom scale, when I go shopping next ill bring a scoop and 1/2 of grain with me ill weigh it idk how im suppose to weight hay???


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

Ok i haven't read all the drama on here cause some of it's just crazy. wyominggrandma is over the top with drama. I'd hate to see all the negative posts about my horse and how i'm going to kill him from working him. My horse actually looses more weight in the summer than he does in the winter. I also see she boards her horse at a boarding facilty so trying to do some stuff like free feed hay is probably not possible. My barn is horrible the pasture horses look like crap which is why my horse is now in a stall and we have to buy extra hay and grain to supplement him ourselves. They skimp on hay my horse is supposed to get two flakes of hey twice a day and he is lucky if he gets two flakes period a day. They don't belive in feeding by how much the hey weighs but by this looks like two flakes. My moms horse has a low blood count from worms and she is not skinny and she gets power packs all the time cause the barn doesn't worm all their horses. my horse has a thyroid tumor which is causing problems with his weight, and we are constently having to adjust his feed. He of course is 19, but i love purina that is all my horse gets is purina products and he looks so much better. The vet told me he needs a minimum of 6lbs of senior a day to maintain weight! He of course can't get that cause they won't wet his feed and he is a big time choaker. He also gets enrich 32 which since he has been put on that it's made a huge differnce. We buy extra brome and alfalfa and give him plenty of hay to eat during the night. he also gets wheat germ oil. I had him on beet pulp and rice bran and it didn't work for him. 

I think you should talk to your vet and you may have already said this, but ask them what and how much you should be feeding. I'm always calling him to ask him if i should up his feed or looking on purina website to see what new stuff they have. He even called purina about their seinor feed for me. Plus you should invest in a weight tape which sounds like you might have one, and weigh her once a week. I weigh my boy once a week especially during show season when he is well i think he is getting worked hard he doesn't seem to think so. 

i HATE having to board my horse. If i had my way my horse would be getting 1 1/2 scoops of seinor twice a day, with free choice hay. This barn doesn't believe in giving more than 1/2 scoop of senior unless you want to pay 60 extra a month, which even if i could afford it i couldn't cause they don't watch to make sure he won't choak. 

The last thing i have to say is just talk to your vet, and if you have to have your vet talk to your bo. You just do what he says. Feed what your vet says. When you can get your fecal count. I know how you feel about money i have two jobs and work my *** off for my boy. He is skinny and you can see his ribs a little like your horse he probably weighs now what your horse weighs and he is 16.2. Our equine specialist said he looks perfect to him he is a saddlebred and was not meant to be heavy. He would like that we could only feel his last three ribs, but he said his muscle looks good, and he is happy and healthy so not to worry about just don't let him loose anymore.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Saddle I would suggest going back and actually reading everything. Wyoming has been trying to give HAF solid advice.

If you read the replies you'd find the answers to your last paragraph.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

I did read everything she posted and she did try to give advice. But you guys trying to call her a liar when she probably has a lot going on isn't helping. If you don't like what she is doing don't say anything. She has said several times she is with her vet and bo about what is going on. Plus not everyone is made out of money, and i used to work for a vet that would turn people that didn't pay their bills down. I don't believe that from the pictures the horse is in bad trouble or not being taken care of. She is young and was reaching out to us to help her not call her a liar, or tell he she can't keep her story straight. Which i did read and she isn't telling the same thing, but that doesn't mean anything. Hell half the time i can't remember what my horse and i did the day before. But that doesn't mean i'm a bad horse owner or liar. 

so I DID read HER posts. Just not every single little word every single person wrote.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

If you were around here more you'd have a better understanding of why people are particularly upset with this topic.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

I think i'm around here enough. I don't see any reason to get upset with a 17yr old. My friend is 18 and if i wasn't around she would be lost and her horse would have foundered so bad she would have had to put him to sleep. Some people don't know any better. Yeah my friend annoys me when she is calling me at 11 at night asking me what to do with her horse, but she is trying. She could have just not asked for any advice at all and let the horse go and be on deaths door before doing anything, which i think the horse is far from deaths door. So just because i don't comment on stuff doesn't mean i don't read these. 

SOOOOO anyway!! horsesareforver I hope you get things figured out. I don't think your horses is going to die. My friends horse had a low blood count and they never figured out why and they just went back up after a couple weeks.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I have been around horses for many years, so am not stupid, and I don't do drama. I have seen way to many horses die from illness that could be taken care of before it was too late. She asked for advice, I along with other gave it.
its not too hard to explain to someone how to weigh grain and hay, but HAF doesn't get it.She is still talking about a "scoop" of grain. Someone else explained how to weigh hay, stand on the scale without hay, then stand on the scale with hay. Easy enough. Put bucket on a scale, weigh it, pour in grain and weigh again. Easy enough. No scale, go to a thrift store and pay $1 for one.
I am not made of money, far from it and work hard to feed and upkeep my horses, but guess what, if they are sick or injured, they get the care no matter how I have to do it. Everyone knows me on the forum for taking care of my daughters and granddaughters barrel horses that were terribly hurt, not that I could afford two extra horses, but they needed the care and I figured out how to do it.
At this point, I am sick of being accused of bringing drama into this thread by two teenagers. (or at least young adults) So, HAF, you won't hear from me again about your horse, good luck, I hope she makes it. Get out of your fantasy world and join the real one, horses are expensive and cost alot, and when they are sick and losing weight or not sick and losing weight, something is wrong. And Saddlebredgirl, glad to have you join in this thread and call me drama when you don't have a clue.... Both of you girls??? Go to **ll...........


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Wyoming - your information was beneficial to read to a lot of folks so don't think it entirely went to waste. It was very good.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> .... Both of you girls??? Go to **ll...........


Huh? Don't we have moderators for these kinds of posts??? Temper temper grandma!


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

ok HaF i have delt with you before  and i'm pretty sure we can work together (helped her find a saddle) first off i am sorry to hear that your mom passed away.....i think i remember what area your in.. is the maine mall out of a question for getting a job there?, or working in the old port? .. my friend has a shop there and i will ask her if she know of any openings...second....didn't you prior BO owner starve chance and that's why you moved her? why would you be working with her again?... i know money is tough and not every one can whip out a criedit card but there are ways to get around it.....can you call universitiy of maine vet dept and see if there student vet's would come out to see her?, in the end it would be a lot cheaper and a student vet would be willing to investigate it further.....i don't know if you drive or not but....staying at low end stables is not good for your horse, i know of some really nice stables in the cape elisabeth, biddeford or kennebunks area......yes there higher end stables but..... i'm pretty sure they would let you work some of your board off, and yes just letting her go to pasture for a few would sound good.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Saddlebred- Your post is greatly appricated!  Ty for trying to understand my part of this!

Trailhorserider- LOL! Sorry but that just made me laugh.

Kansas- I've moved to another barn after that, then to SOF who took very good care of Chance, and Nova both but had to move from there because of family problems.  So now im where Im at now but my old barn owner and I got close so shes more then willing to help. SOF is a barn in Cape Eliz.

When I was needing to move from SOF I went literally in every town surrounding portland and not many were able to have people work off board or even if I could work off board it would only be like $60 bucks. lol. Once I get my job I may be moving back to SOF. 

Getting a job in the mall is deffinatly not out of the question nor the old port. I've been looking around and the college kids had most of the jobs but they should be back to school now so hopefully things are gonna start becoming available again. Even my friend whos 22 has a lot of leader ship job experience was having a hard tiem getting a job.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

HorsesAreForever said:


> I weighed her today and she weights 1,111 lbs which is already an improvement since the day I bought her. When I bought her she was 1,024 lbs.


I am guessing you did not actual weigh her. You used a weight tape on her. Huge difference. Please be clear.

As has been pointed out, it is very easy to get an inaccurate read on a weight tape.

If you say she has gained weight since you got her (and I do not remember her looking that bad in the videos you showed of her when you got her) then why this drama filled thread of her loosing weight?



HorsesAreForever said:


> I
> I dont have a bathroom scale, when I go shopping next ill bring a scoop and 1/2 of grain with me ill weigh it idk how im suppose to weight hay???


Hay is easy to weigh. Go to a store like Walmart and go to the fishing stuff department. You can buy a fish scale for $3. Hang it in the barn and you can weight the hay that way. 



What I found extra frustrating is the OP posts how she can not afford vet care and all that, but at the same time has a thread talking about buying a supplement that will help her mare's coat not fade in the sun. 

Wyoming, I think you are giving great advice. Do not let the people who refuse to see it get you down.


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

Ok I understand that HAF is having some personal and financial issues right now. That is understood. The economy is still in the toilet, it is hard for most people right now. Some people have had to get out of horses because it sucks so bad. I commend people who would rather pass the horse along to someone who can take care of it appropriately rather than hang onto it till times get better...because their is no guarentee they will. HAF I want to say directly to you that I am not attacking you, many of us have been around horses and base our judgments on things we have experienced in the past. You are young, you are starting out and I bet you have great intentions. That said...it is in my own personal experience that a lot of times horses that I have seen that have been underweight have been that way because the person owning them either didn't feed them because they were ignorant OR they didn't feed them because they couldn't afford too. There are VALID medical reasons as to why a horse loses weight, BUT most of the time it is just lack of nutrition. There are hundreds of thousands of horses being starved to death in this country right now, the thought sickens and infuriates me...we are not attacking you in anger....we are attacking the whole situation. I feel like your barn may be taking advantage of you and your horse is paying the consequences. Without a job, even with an aunt helping you, it is a lot of money to properly care for a horse. Sure you can make it on less, everyone has had to sacrifice some little things at some times, but if it is the constant and the norm there is an issue. I HOPE your horse isn't skinny from not being fed properly...I HOPE...I HOPE...I HOPE....I am glad to hear that it is gaining weight...just PLEASEEEEEEEEE make sure you understand what a HUGE responsibility calling yourself a horse owner is...thats all hun, we are not attacking you, we are attacking the situation of many horses...it hurts when you love something so much and sometimes you see it being neglected...I apologize if this is not the case for you...I apologize for assuming it was if it wasn't...just make it better and if you can't...love your horse enough to find someone who can...that is all.


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

have you looked in saco or kirkland?, how much are you paying in board?...in biddeford there's a small farm called bushbrooke, a woman name mona owns it...she's a tells it like it is type of woman...she also runs a ruscue for horses so she knows where people are comming from and i think she would let you work off board....it's a nice place with lots of trails and either it's a few miles from ridding on the beach or just a short drive from there.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

Oh i'd like to add i'm not a teenager! Oh and i never said she wasn't giving good advise, it's just stupid to get frustrated. She said she spent 800 dollars on vet bills to me that doesn't sound like she isn't trying to fix the problem. For 800 dollars i'm sure she did a lot. Also i never said anyone was stupid so don't put words in my mouth. I think wyominggrandma from what i've seen can take good care of her horses, and knows a lot, but this is NOT a case of a girl starving her horse.

Oh and also, If she is in a pasture that could also be why she is loosing weight. My vet told me my horse isn't allowed out in the pasture unless he has access to a round bale 24/7 all year round. He said that by him walking around and grazing he is burning too many calories. How big is the pasture? She may not be a good canidate for the pasture. I just thought of that this morning.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

SaddlebredGrl said:


> He said that by him walking around and grazing he is burning too many calories.


I so wish this was really a problem!


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

Oh and also, If she is in a pasture that could also be why she is loosing weight. My vet told me my horse isn't allowed out in the pasture unless he has access to a round bale 24/7 all year round. He said that by him walking around and grazing he is burning too many calories. How big is the pasture? She may not be a good canidate for the pasture. I just thought of that this morning.[/QUOTE]

ok never herd that one before......i have a hard keeper and have worked with my vet since we got this horse, my mare is out on a 9 acre pasture with three other horses and they are rolli-pollies....my vet said that corn oil is usless and put luna on a cup of soybean oil and scoop of ( forgot the name of the wieght builder) and 16 % mare and foal feed. she is also on pasture 24/7 365 days a year


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

We have pasture turn out but the get hay supplemented for morning/evening feedings.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

UH ok alwaysbehind are you calling my vet a liar??? So if you sat on your *** all day for 13 years, and than decided to get up and go for a walk and eat dirt 24/7 w/a tiny bit of clover you wouldn't loose weight???? So your trying to say that when your horses walk around and run around in the pasture they aren't burning calories???? My horse was on 20 acres of dirt and very little clover w/no grass or hay, and he lost 200 lbs. You know when you excersice you loose weight or when you go on a diet same thing with horses. 

I think my vet knows a little more than you guys do. It makes sense when you put a show horse out to pasture that has known nothing but standing in a stall they will loose weight when there is nothing to eat. Oh wait aren't you guys all big on starving horses??? So tell me why horses starve when they are out on a big pasture and aren't getting hay?? oh that is because the pasture doesn't have enough nutrients in it for them to gain weight? Just saying my horse and my friends TB had to come in because they lost too much weight. My horse was even coming in and getting fed hay and grain and still lost weight. NOT because he has something wrong with him.

I was just throwing that out for Horseareforver not for people to tell me my vet doesn't know what he is talking about.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

ok easy! I don't think that anyone was calling anyone a liar! It is true, some horses burn more than they consume on pasture. You know the ones, they do more socializing, etc. than eating. Also not all pasture is created equal, if it isn't nice lush spring grass, it is possible ambling around while nibbling away all day might not meet caloric needs. I am sure that for your horse and your pasture this was a very real problem. I think all that was being implied was that AB's horses never experience this.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Back off, Saddlebred. _You're_ the one coming across as if you have a stick up your ****, not Always.

A horse wandering around a field all day will not normally lose weight. If you stick him out there with absolutely no hay and there's no grass, that's called a _dry lot_. So yeah, if he's getting nothing at all to eat 12 hours a day and he's a hard keeper, I can see why he's losing weight.

However, a normal horse in a grass pasture, NOT a dry lot, should _not_ lose weight just ambling about. They don't exercise all that much, unless your horse is a lunatic who runs himself ragged. Walking does _not_ equate to running around like a freak.

My horses are out 24/7/365 unless the weather's horrid. I have two Arabians and a TB. None of them are thin, although the TB is what you'd call a hard keeper in comparison to the Arabians.

Always has the ultimate easy keeper. I swear that horse stays fat on air. He gets practically nothing, and still maintains his weight.

Nobody called your vet a liar. _You're_ the one getting your panties wadded up and are obviously looking for a fight, for some reason.

Chill out and actually read what people are writing, instead of going off the deep end.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

KANSAS_TWISTER said:


> Oh and also, If she is in a pasture that could also be why she is loosing weight. My vet told me my horse isn't allowed out in the pasture unless he has access to a round bale 24/7 all year round. He said that by him walking around and grazing he is burning too many calories. How big is the pasture? She may not be a good canidate for the pasture. I just thought of that this morning.


ok never herd that one before......i have a hard keeper and have worked with my vet since we got this horse, my mare is out on a 9 acre pasture with three other horses and they are rolli-pollies....my vet said that corn oil is usless and put luna on a cup of soybean oil and scoop of ( forgot the name of the wieght builder) and 16 % mare and foal feed. she is also on pasture 24/7 365 days a year[/QUOTE]

Doesn't appear to be much to eat in that thar pasture


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Back off, Saddlebred. _You're_ the one coming across as if you have a stick up your ****, not Always.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm pot calling the kettle black?


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

SaddlebredGrl said:


> UH ok alwaysbehind are you calling my vet a liar??? So if you sat on your *** all day for 13 years, and than decided to get up and go for a walk and eat dirt 24/7 w/a tiny bit of clover you wouldn't loose weight???? So your trying to say that when your horses walk around and run around in the pasture they aren't burning calories???? My horse was on 20 acres of dirt and very little clover w/no grass or hay, and he lost 200 lbs. You know when you excersice you loose weight or when you go on a diet same thing with horses.
> 
> I think my vet knows a little more than you guys do. It makes sense when you put a show horse out to pasture that has known nothing but standing in a stall they will loose weight when there is nothing to eat. Oh wait aren't you guys all big on starving horses??? So tell me why horses starve when they are out on a big pasture and aren't getting hay?? oh that is because the pasture doesn't have enough nutrients in it for them to gain weight? Just saying my horse and my friends TB had to come in because they lost too much weight. My horse was even coming in and getting fed hay and grain and still lost weight. NOT because he has something wrong with him.
> 
> I was just throwing that out for Horseareforver not for people to tell me my vet doesn't know what he is talking about.


I don't really understand the point of your entire post. _Of course_ if a horse is on a Dry Lot and getting very little to eat or _improper nutrients,_ they're going to lose weight. That is common sense. I can't imagine a horse gaining _any_ weight, no matter how easy a keeper, on a dry lot with no food.
_However_ if a horse is on Pasture, with _good _grazing available 24/7, and they run around and walk around, they should not be losing weight. If a horse IS losing weight on lush pasture, then there is _something wrong, _and it needs to be looked into.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Back to HAF... as Always said, she did not look this bad when you bought her. I remember, and I'll drag up the thread if I have to. Also, a scoop and a half of feathers doesn't weight as much as a scoop and a half of dirt. We need WEIGHTS, like we've all been saying for the ENTIRE thread. A "scoop" doesn't mean anything, and add that we don't even know how big the scoop is. There are 1 oz scoops, and 3 qt scoops. That's why the WEIGHT [IN POUNDS] is so important.

I also explained, in DETAIL, in my last post how you can weigh your grain AND your hay. Yet you asked how to weigh your hay right after that? Do you even read the posts? Are we just wasting our breath?

 SaddlebredGirl said: "My horse was on 20 acres of dirt and very little clover w/no grass or hay, and he lost 200 lbs."

Perhaps your horse lost 200 pounds because you weren't, um, feeding him. 


​


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> SaddlebredGirl said: "My horse was on 20 acres of dirt and very little clover w/no grass or hay, and he lost 200 lbs."​
> Perhaps your horse lost 200 pounds because you weren't, um, feeding him. ​


I hate it when that happens!  In all seriousness, this about sums up what I was trying to say.


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

Wow, where's a mod when you need one.... This is getting ridiculous guys, everyone needs to take a chill pill and remember the golden rule... *"If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything..."

*Haf, as someone thats trying to help your mare, and not attack you. Listen to these people willing to give you good advice. Ricco has given you some awesome advice on weighing hay, and even though granma seems to be really frustrated, she's also been trying to help too. Please, for the sake of your mare listen to SOMEONE thats KNOWLEDGEABLE. We all just want your mare to be happy and healthy.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

Um... i'm pretty **** sure i feed my horse every day. If i can't make it to feed him my mom feeds him. So riccil0ve just an FYI don't accuse me of not feeding my horse.

I'll will be the first to apologize to alwaysbehind if i was wrong about what she posted, and maybe she just typed it wrong. I'm not above apologizing if i was wrong and went off on her for no reason. But just because you have never heard of a horse loosing weight on unhelthy pasture doesn't mean it can't happen. My horse has his teeth floated twice a year, a fecal checked once a month, shots twice a year, blood work evey year, and so on. He didn't start loosing weight till he went out to the crap pature with no hay to eat 24/7. Now in the winter when they give them round bales to eat he is fine. Which in the winter he still gets his extra brome, alfalfa and senior.

And no my horse was not on a 20 acre dry lot, he was on a 20 acre pasture full of weeds and clover. no grass. The pasture is stressed and the horses need to be pulled in so it can recover. They don't rotate pastures or do anything. My horse wasn't the only one loosing weight, the horses don't even eat i've been out there all day and they all stand there drooling profusly and don't eat one bite. I'm sorry if you guys don't believe me or think i don't feed my horse. that isn't my problem. 

Once again i apoligize to alwaysbehind if i went off the deep end if you didn't mean anything by your post. Also whyomingrandma does have good advice and i never said she didn't i think she takes great care of her horses, and never said that she didn't.

I'm so done with you people. riccil0ve: i don't even know what else to say because it saddens me to think you go around accusing people of not feeding their horses when i already said before that my vet told me to pull my horse in and the very next day i did it. My horse is my life and i would never starve him, or not feed him. That is why if i can't make it to the barn i call everyone and ask them if they can give him his nighttime supplements. Which now he gets fed four times a day, but i forgot i don't feed my horse i just enjoy making stuff up for fun.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

Charis i just reread your post my point is that it's not "LUSH" pasture it's crap it has no nutrininal value what so ever which is why my horse was loosing weight even though i was feeding him extra. We talked to the barn owners and said we would do whatever needed to be done to help rebuild the pasture and they told us they didn't care that the pasture of weeds was fine, and he wasn't going to put round bales out in the summer cause it's a waste of money. Even though we were willing to pay extra. I went out and threw the horses my own bales of hay to them for a while. But i don't feed my horse just eveybody elses.


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

lol..chur...that wasn't pasture in that pic....i have portable fencing and yes i will admit that i'm too lazzy to mow so up comes the fencing and the horses have the fun of mowing it down for me.....this is my back pasture


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

That's what you needed to specify - I completely believe that a horse not getting enough feed [or nutrition] loses weight; that's just common sense. What you _didn't_ say was "my horse lost lots of weight because s/he was on 20 acres of nutritionally inadequate pasture." When someone says "my horse is on 20 acres of pasture" they automatically think that the horse is on good pasture; if the pasture is crap, and the horse isn't getting enough to eat, or enough essential vitamins and minerals, then _of course_ it is going to lose weight. That's why people were so confused with your post, *SaddlebredGrl*, because you didn't explain yourself. 

"my point is that it's not "LUSH" pasture it's crap it has no nutrininal value what so ever which is why my horse was loosing weight even though i was feeding him extra. "

"And no my horse was not on a 20 acre dry lot, he was on a 20 acre pasture full of weeds and clover. no grass." 

This is my point; your horse was on essentially a Dry Lot (no nutritional value) then the horse will _need_ to be fed as if it is... well, on Dry Lot, which means feeding them hay, not relying at all on 'pasture.' This is not 'extra' feed. This is just essential feed. Only weeds and clover, no grass? Not a wonder that the horse lost weight; he essentially had no food. 

My point is that if a horse is on 20 acres of _good pasture_ with _no health problems_, it should maintain or gain weight, depending on metabolism and activity levels. I read your first post*, SaddlebredGrl*, as saying that a horse on 20 acres of _good pasture_ won't maintain or gain weight because they're burning it all off by walking and running around - this is simply not true.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I did not type anything incorrectly. 

Please unbunch your panties and read what you wrote and how much it has changed with new details, etc.

I was commenting on this.



SaddlebredGrl said:


> Oh and also, If she is in a pasture that could also be why she is loosing weight. My vet told me my horse isn't allowed out in the pasture unless he has access to a round bale 24/7 all year round. He said that by him walking around and grazing he is burning too many calories.


Which taken at face value is nothing short of crazy. Note you say the horse is grazing (which means eating food, not eating nothing). No where in your warning do you mention horses on a dry lot or a weed lot or whatever you want to call your 'pasture' with nothing edible in it.

Do you really want people to read what you posted and think that a good pasture will make a horse thin? Because that is what you posted.

Later on you add that your pasture is far from what just about anyone would call a pasture. You use terms like dirt, unhealthy, etc. 

Since I failed mind reading in school I could only comment on what you stated.

A horse sauntering around to graze in a pasture all day does not burn more calories than they are taking in (unless you are talking about a crappy pasture, which you obviously are, add a hard keeper on to the crappy pasture and not enough other supplementation and you have a problem).

Personally, I think, even with a hard keeper, it is better for them to be able to walk around all day than stand still all day.


And this is a totally different subject.



SaddlebredGrl said:


> The pasture is stressed and the horses need to be pulled in so it can recover. They don't rotate pastures or do anything.


It sounds like you might want to find a different boarding situation that better fits your horses needs.




SaddlebredGrl said:


> the horses don't even eat i've been out there all day and they all stand there drooling profusly and don't eat one bite.


Fact. The drooling is caused by a fungus on the clover. So they have to have eaten something to be drooling. :wink:

Again, it sounds like the barn you board at has a management issue. It sounds like your vet gave you appropriate advice for that facility. But I am sure if you asked him, he would agree, that your blanket statement is inaccurate.




Charis said:


> My point is that if a horse is on 20 acres of _good pasture_ with _no health problems_, it should maintain or gain weight, depending on metabolism and activity levels. I read your first post*, SaddlebredGrl*, as saying that a horse on 20 acres of _good pasture_ won't maintain or gain weight because they're burning it all off by walking and running around - this is simply not true.


Well said, Charis.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

whatever


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

SaddlebredGrl said:


> whatever


:?:

I do not get your point. Did you even read what I posted above? Or did you just want to be snotty back for the sake of being snotty?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

SaddlebredGrl said:


> whatever


Are you serious? Folks on here try to help when supplied with only a portion of the information and you have the nerve to get snippy?

If this is how you are treating the people who care for you horse, I can understand the issues. I tend to tune out those who do not treat me with respect.


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## dvmca (Sep 8, 2010)

Alright i'm putting a stop to this. The op horse may not have the issue saddlebrdgrl is talking about but its entirly possible for a horse to have lush green grass, and still loose weight and be healthy. If a horse has a very high metabolism and is spending 24/7 eating and walking around and if the horse is very active it could be burning more calories than it's taking in. Now although it's not very common it's very possible.

Just because she worded something wrong and you people didn't bother to ask what she meant instead tried to make her look stupid. I think people gave good advice but this needs to stop.

All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Also a fecal count isn't always going to show a horse having a parasite problem. I've had horses have negative fecals and have a horrible infestation.

Until you guys have DVM after your names you need to stop with the snotty remarks. I'm sure that when she said they weren't eating because they were drooling she knew it was from the clover. If they have been eating enough that they are drooling that bad, they for sure will stop eating for a long period of time.

You all need to grow up, and at least saddelbredgrl had the right idea to apologize for her comments. unlike the rest of you. I'm sure the op has got things under control and this forum needs to be locked.


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

dvmca said:


> Alright i'm putting a stop to this. The op horse may not have the issue saddlebrdgrl is talking about but its entirly possible for a horse to have lush green grass, and still loose weight and be healthy. If a horse has a very high metabolism and is spending 24/7 eating and walking around and if the horse is very active it could be burning more calories than it's taking in. Now although it's not very common it's very possible.
> 
> Just because she worded something wrong and you people didn't bother to ask what she meant instead tried to make her look stupid. I think people gave good advice but this needs to stop.
> 
> ...


Thank you DVMCA. Everyone needs to back off, and give advice in a polite manner, otherwise what is the point. This girl is doing the best she can. And all of us have to admit that when you get advice in a derogatory manner, you are less likely to follow that advice. Everyone has been jumping all over this girl, she is young and still learning, and there is NO reason for the rude comments that have been in this thread.:evil: This is getting way out of hand. Everyone owes this girl an apology.

I'm sorry that nearly everyone on this thread has been rude to you when you are doing the best that you can under your current situation. I hope you get everything figured out, and if I can help you in anyway, please feel free to PM me. I will do anything I can to help you. Good luck and God bless!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

dvmca said:


> Alright i'm putting a stop to this.


Nothing better than a brand new poster who joins just to boss everyone around. It is always ironic when they post to tell everyone else how they should not be so mean to others and be nice..... hmmm...



dvmca said:


> but its entirly possible for a horse to have lush green grass, and still loose weight and be healthy.


I do not believe anyone denies this fact. Of course there are hard keepers who could eat all the lush grass they want all day and night and still need further calories. If I remember correctly that was stated by me and others. :wink:
That is VERY different than what was said though.

And maybe you have missed one of the big issues of an internet bb where just about anyone can post just about anything (you included). When someone posts something that is gravely wrong the way it is written it can lead to green owners reading it and thinking it is a fact. 

So, would you rather we ignore the incorrect statement (and the following tantrum) which might lead to someone thinking it is best to lock their horse up in its stall 24/7?

No one was harsh with saddlebred really. She is the one who had the temper tantrum.



dvmca said:


> Just because she worded something wrong and you people didn't bother to ask what she meant instead tried to make her look stupid. I think people gave good advice but this needs to stop.


So, in your mind it is OK for her to jump down my throat when all I did was say that I wished what she posted was really a problem?

Because, as was posted by SR, I do wish it was that easy. Totally. It was nothing but a factual post that she got her panties bunched about. 

Please read again.



dvmca said:


> Until you guys have DVM after your names you need to stop with the snotty remarks. I'm sure that when she said they weren't eating because they were drooling she knew it was from the clover. If they have been eating enough that they are drooling that bad, they for sure will stop eating for a long period of time.


If you truly are a vet, which I doubt, but heck, who knows, someone has to graduate at the bottom of the class, you would not post something so... wrong.

I will use my horse and his pasture mates as an example (total of 12 horses in six different pastures). The first time I encountered clover slobbers was when I had him boarded at a stable with really lush pastures with lots of clover. Slobbering/slobbers did not slow down the grazing one bit. Not him, or his pasture mates. No long period of time of not eating because of the clover slobbers. 



dvmca said:


> You all need to grow up, and at least saddelbredgrl had the right idea to apologize for her comments. unlike the rest of you.


Um no, she said she would apologize if she was wrong. That is not apologizing.




dvmca said:


> You all need to grow up, and at least saddelbredgrl had the right idea to apologize for her comments. unlike the rest of you. I'm sure the op has got things under control and this forum needs to be locked.


The entire forum? Or just this thread?

PaintedFury, you do realize that dvmca was only defending saddlebredgrl, right? Not the OP.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

PaintedFury said:


> I'm sorry that nearly everyone on this thread has been rude to you when you are doing the best that you can under your current situation. I hope you get everything figured out, and if I can help you in anyway, please feel free to PM me. I will do anything I can to help you. Good luck and God bless!


You are not serious? It's ok for her to give us partial info and then get upset when she gets answers based on that info? Nope - not ok. Not rude - simply trying to help.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

dvmca said:


> *If a horse has a very high metabolism and is spending 24/7 eating and walking around* and if the horse is very active it could be burning more calories than it's taking in. Now although it's not very common it's very possible.
> 
> Until you guys have DVM after your names you need to stop with the snotty remarks. I'm sure that when she said they weren't eating because they were drooling she knew it was from the clover. If they have been eating enough that they are drooling that bad, they for sure will stop eating for a long period of time.


*Rather difficult for a horse to eat and walk around 24/7.* However, the horse would not only lose weight on pasture - it would be a 365 issue.

And you have a DVM after your name? With an emphasis on nutrition?


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Isn't it interesting how a new person just happens to join the forum, just happens to find this thread and goes through 18 pages to say we are picking on HAF and SBG? And this same person just happens to have DMV in the name? And demands that everyone stop picking on these two people??? 
All that garbage aside, we have three horses on 4 acres of irragated pasture 24/7 . They eat, sleep, graze, run, play, eat sleep graze, run play.......... Nobody is skinny including the 23 yr old and the 22 yr old.......... And they get no supplements either, just grass pasture and water.


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## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

dvmca said:


> Alright i'm putting a stop to this.


Geez, hello to you too. That's quiet a way with words you have.:shock:


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

^^ Interesting point there WyomingGrandma, kinda crazy idea but who knows? I just read this whole thread and of all the things that surprised me, the thing I found most amusing was the spelling and grammar in DVMC's post. Seems young. 

I would offer advice but don't see the point. However, I am interested to hear which College DVMC attended.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

me too me too...........


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I thought it was only the mods who could tell us to quit posting on a subject, not somebody who just joined and has decided to put us all in our places..


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

wyominggrandma said:


> I thought it was only the mods who could tell us to quit posting on a subject, not somebody who just joined and has decided to put us all in our places..


 
Me thinks the mods should check IP's . . .


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

yeppers, just a bit strange to me. Plus, nothing has been said from HAF on this for awhile, while SBG started in, now the new person...........


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Anyone for popcorn?


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

yeah, me me me...I want some. Diet Pepsi also.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Oh and my money is on HAF being DVMC. SBG seems to be able to look after herself.

*passes popcorn*


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

yep, I think you may be right..............
More popcorn please


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

sarahver said:


> Oh and my money is on HAF being DVMC. SBG seems to be able to look after herself.
> 
> *passes popcorn*


I think they're all the same user Sarah, but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time! :wink:

HAF has always had controversial, contradictory threads, so this is nothing new for her. SBG is awfully new to have such a massive chip on her shoulder, and the DVM person is most likely someone's alter, if not the alter of an already established alter. 

It seems terribly suspicious that they'd join just to snark on this _one_ particular thread about how awful everyone's being to poor wittle HAF and SBG.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Straight from the microwave, with a little butter and salt.

Now I am off to a college where spelling and grammar is enforced.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

SpeedRacer, whoooo! Now you have taken it to another level! _Two_ alter-egos? Now that is 'A' for Effort.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

sarahver said:


> SpeedRacer, whoooo! Now you have taken it to another level! _Two_ alter-egos? Now that is 'A' for Effort.


Just think how much they could accomplish if they used their powers for good instead of evil! :twisted:


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## PaintedFury (Aug 18, 2010)

Ok, just because no one here has ever seen a horse lose weight on a perfectly good pasture, that doesn't mean that it can't happen. I've seen it first hand. I have a friend that has a TB that is an extremely hard keeper. She has nearly a 20 acre pasture of good grass. While all the other horses stayed nice and fat on the grass alone, he had to be fed 5 lbs of Omolene 200, Weight Builder, and 2 cups of cornola oil twice a day during the summer months and free choice hay, and he still looked substantially poorer than the other horses, who got grass alone. He was not an active horse by any means, when the other horses would be running around and acting crazy he would stand and watch them. He wasn't worked, his only exercise was walking around the pasture grazing, and the occasional trail ride (maybe once a month). We had his teeth checked, they were fine, we had blood tests done and everything came back normal. Fecal check, no parasite load. His coat was shiny, his feet were healthy, other than being flat footed, and other than being skinny he was perfectly healthy. So a horse not putting on weight or loosing weight in a perfectly good pasture is totally possible. I had never seen or heard of it before this horse.

HAF, have you talked to your BO about you supplying the feed and hay, and them feeding whatever amounts of each that you ask them to? Of course, if you take this option, you're monthly charge should be reduced because they are not longer providing the feed and hay. To weight the hay you can provide them with a scale like the following oneSearch results for fish scale - Walmart and a plastic tub like this one Tuff Stuff Muck Bucket 70 Quart - Horse.com, for less then $30 you will be able to weigh your feed and hay.

If you're not sure of what feed to give your mare, talk with your vet and see what he/she recommends. Good luck and God bless.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> Isn't it interesting how a new person just happens to join the forum, just happens to find this thread and goes through 18 pages to say we are picking on HAF and SBG? And this same person just happens to have DMV in the name? And demands that everyone stop picking on these two people???


I know I'm a year and a half away from being a DVM still, and that I have a lot to learn, but all vets I work with know the difference between loosing weight and losing weight, and would be concerned that this horse's work up was less than adequate. Giving Red Cell for a low count without diagnosing the underlying cause... PFFFT!


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

mls said:


> Me thinks the mods should check IP's . . .


I sent in a note to them. I seriously doubt that poster is a DVM. Let's hope not at least!


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

sarahver said:


> SpeedRacer, whoooo! Now you have taken it to another level! _Two_ alter-egos? Now that is 'A' for Effort.


You might be surprised how many alter's some people get going!


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

just sitting back and watching this ruckess.....might mike to check on i.e.p to see if dnv's matches any ones.........ooooowww the plot thickens......


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I'll be they do.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

THe dvm person?? or w/e isn't me... honestly I wasnt going to post here again till monday which is when I need to re weigh Nova. 

on top of the 1 1/2 scoop of grain, and beet pulp, and the extra grain and hay im feeding her.. shes now getting a good amount of soaked alfalfa cubes once a day.

She also just got some equimax put into her yesterday.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I think the thing folks were really curious about was really just the weight of the food, that way they could give you better/additional advice on how to help. Example: good amount of soaked cubes.


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

i would be asking BO to wiegh and write down every thing on papper so the vet would now where to go from there....


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Re: SaddlbredGirl - HAHAHAAH!! In all honesty, she said he was in a pasture 24 hours a day with no food. And he lost weight.  If you locked me in a pasture and didn't feed me, I'd lose weight too! Haha.

I didn't assume she wasn't feeding him, I was pointing out her very poor use of the english language. But her defensiveness is a little ridiculous. My comment was made to be funny. Oh well.

The plot has indeed thickened. Love the brand new poster putting us in our places. At least some of us have managed to make ourselves known as good/knowledgeable horsemen before "attacking." =P


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

*feels like she's back in middle school*

Wow, I just read this thread now for my daily soap opera... I don't even turn on the TV now..... 

Popcorn please?! Extra salt, and a good Mike's Hard to go with it.


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

who needs tv when you have the horse forum.....


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

*passes popcorn around the room* 

oh drama...you gotta love it


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

HorsesAreForever said:


> THe dvm person?? or w/e isn't me... honestly I wasnt going to post here again till monday which is when I need to re weigh Nova.
> 
> on top of the 1 1/2 scoop of grain, and beet pulp, and the extra grain and hay im feeding her.. shes now getting a good amount of soaked alfalfa cubes once a day.
> 
> She also just got some equimax put into her yesterday.


:shock: Good Lord.

WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS.
WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. 

Have I said it enough yet?! WEIGH YOUR FEED. ALL OF IT. _Not _"an extra scoop" of feed. Not "some" beetpulp. Not "a good amount" of soaked cubes.


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

oh here comes the brick wall episod.........pass the pop corn


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

PaintedFury said:


> Ok, just because no one here has ever seen a horse lose weight on a perfectly good pasture, that doesn't mean that it can't happen.


Well bless your heart.

Did you read what people posted? Obviously not. You just want to proclaim us all to be mean and evil.

Go back and read. We have all said it is possible. We just do not convert that into "a horse can not be on pasture all day or it will lose weight".

But carry on insisting we do not care, etc.




Charis said:


> WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS.
> WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS.
> WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS.
> WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS. WEIGHTS.
> ...


I totally agree. 

HAF, we do need weights. It will make it so much easier for us to help you. We keep saying it. You keep ignoring it.

I am glad you added some soaked alfalfa cubes. Great food. I have no idea what "a good amount" equals though. So it is hard to tell if that will help you much.
​


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

See, now you can understand why I got so frustrated. We have been asking for weights since this thread began, and even after days and days of not just me asking for actual weight of food, yesterday we still get directly from HAF's post :

"on top of the 1 1/2 scoop of grain, and beet pulp, and the extra grain and hay im feeding her.. shes now getting a good amount of soaked alfalfa cubes once a day."

I truly believe HAF is not even trying to let us help her, by continuing to say : a scoop of grain, a good amount of alfalfa cubes", she is totally ignoring all of us and just trying to cause the same DRAMA that she accused me of doing.
This post was started on Aug 28, and 206 posts later she is still ignoring us asking her to weigh her feed. . 
Someone else on the forum told me this is typical of this OP's threads time after time and now I can believe it. Lets face it folks she has NO intention of weighing her feed or giving us exact amounts, its more fun to continue to keep this thread going by saying things like 1 12/ scoops, a "good amount of soaked alfafa pellets, etc. knowing folks who want to help her will post more things to this thread.
A waste of everyone's time if you ask me, the OP just wants all the attention. Oh yea, where did dvmca after the nasty post telling us to stop this thread immediately and nobody listened to her.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Solon said:


> I sent in a note to them. I seriously doubt that poster is a DVM. Let's hope not at least!


I am still waiting for that poster to respond to my questions!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> Oh yea, where did dvmca after the nasty post telling us to stop this thread immediately and nobody listened to her.


Silly Grandma, They are just too busy to be posting all over an internet BB. They found a thread in need of their greatness, posted, and left.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Wow...we need something stronger than popcorn for this thread...

What irritates me is that people can post false information with an official sounding name and novices/new horse owners will most likely always go with their advice just because their name sounds official. PLEASE to anyone not directly involved in this posting that is reading it for information or because they have their own weight loss problem....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't be afraid to make your own posts, just take EVERY single piece of advice you get on here with a grain of salt. Along with all the info you can get from google or horsey friends, even vets. I'm all for getting second, third, and thirty different opinions. When asking a question use the "3 rules of posting" and you will be fine. 

1. Be as SPECIFIC and accurate as you can. Weights, numbers, hours, behavior, etc. Document EVERTYTHING about your horse while you're trying to figure out what's wrong. What goes in, what comes out, attitude, general physical appearance, etc. 
2. Don't be afraid to question advice but don't argue with people. If you don't think their advice pertains to you or is not correct, say thank you for your input I will take it into consideration but would also like to hear other opinions before I decide what to do. Polite, appreciative and concise. Nobody knows whether you use their advice or not unless you say you did. And even then, you can say whatever you want. It is helpful to say I tried this, this is what happened, now what would you recommend? But it is not necessary. 99% of posters just genuinely want to help you help your horse and because they care so much they get easily frustrated when they feel the horse is not getting the care that it needs. So please be patient and understanding with frustrated horse people that are just trying to help, because wouldn't you rather have people too willing to help than not willing at all?
3. DO NOT use everyone's advice all at the same time, or change your management regime everytime someone gives you advice. It is best to ask the question and wait a week and then determine the single best thing to do or compile a series of things that you think would work best and try them. There is nothing more damaging to a horse's health than extreme management/feed changes even if you only do it once, but it's MUCH worse if you extremely change their routine/feed/etc multiple times in a short period of time. It can lead to EVEN WORSE conditions like colic, leave them susceptible to infection/illness and cause mental problems. If your horse is desperate enough that it won't last a week before you change something about their management then DO NOT POST ON A FORUM, CALL A VET or 2 or 3 until your horse is stable! Remember, just because someone is a VET doesn't mean they are 100% correct 100% of the time or know 100% of the knowledge about 100% of the things that can go wrong/affect/happen to horses. There's a reason there are specialists and equine hospitals. Field vets are great but they aren't always as up to date or knowledgeable about new/rare diseases, conditions, etc. Don't be afraid to shop around even if it requires hauling your horse to a different area of your state for a second opinion if your vet is stumped or your horse does not improve. It might just save their life.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

hahaha this thread is actually brilliant!!!
Only dvmca could post apparently as she was the only one with the dvm you need to post opinions on what i believe to be a fictional issue. I honestly think the OP has made it all up for drama throughout the thread not one bit of mathcing accurate information came from her


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

Maybe we could all change our names to "DVM______" That way we can continue to post on here..... 

I kinda like the sound of that "DVM Rogue Mare"..... *Crunching of popcorn*


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Love that plan Rogue!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

RogueMare said:


> Maybe we could all change our names to "DVM______" That way we can continue to post on here.....
> 
> I kinda like the sound of that "DVM Rogue Mare"..... *Crunching of popcorn*


 
no no no - the DVM has to be BEHIND the name!


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

/facepalm Well, Dvmca did say that... why does she get it in front? ;-)


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Rogue, you make a good point, actually.

Because he/she does say it has to be after your name.



dvmca said:


> Until you guys have DVM after your names you need to stop with the snotty remarks.


So I suppose that means they really have no clue what they are talking about either, since they put the dvm in front of some letters, instead of at the end.

Good catch, MLS and Rogue.


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## RogueMare (Feb 17, 2010)

Maybe I should skip working with horses and go into detective work....


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Thank you NittanyEquestrian for that well thought out post.

I believe we will close on this note.



NittanyEquestrian said:


> Wow...we need something stronger than popcorn for this thread...
> 
> What irritates me is that people can post false information with an official sounding name and novices/new horse owners will most likely always go with their advice just because their name sounds official. PLEASE to anyone not directly involved in this posting that is reading it for information or because they have their own weight loss problem....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't be afraid to make your own posts, just take EVERY single piece of advice you get on here with a grain of salt. Along with all the info you can get from google or horsey friends, even vets. I'm all for getting second, third, and thirty different opinions. When asking a question use the "3 rules of posting" and you will be fine.
> 
> ...


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