# He has gone mad



## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

G'day,

A few of you have read my post about my horse who I have trouble with...yes I'm back, but things have gone from having trouble riding him to a uncontrollable animal who go as far as throwing himself at a fence to finish the ride.

My horse has always been timid and rushed things. He started to Jig and plough through fences and I couldn't control him...with the help of you guys on the forum I finally got things under control, and I had a perfect horse... Then he started to become a little herd bound...but it's something I've had to deal with in the past. I was able to have a lesson on him, I had been hoping he would be naughty so the instructor could see what I meant and help me control him....but he was an angel...after that ride I haven't had one as perfect. Due to personal reason I wasn't able to ride for six weeks, but I was still out there with him everyday...then when I able to ride again he was a wild boy.
His jigging is REALLY bad I have no control whatsoever when he begins to jig.
I had his teeth done, they were overdue and I figured that maybe they were causing him pain and his behaviour was his way of telling me. His teeth have been done and nothing changed.

He's a horse that has never reared,bucked,or kicked me in the five years that I've owned him.
Lately he has began to rear...a full on rear, Bucks regularly, and kicks me.

He only just missed my head when I was rasping his back feet recently, he knocked my cap off.

Also when riding he will throw himself at any object, concrete tanks, fences, trees, other horses, sheds, trucks, and tractors.
I've noticed that he does it even without me riding him.

I think he's in a lot of pain, but I just don't know what.
His tack fits and his teeth, and feet are good. 

I would like to get the vet out to X-Ray his back, I was told to have him checked for kissing spines.

If I jump on in his home paddock he is a lamb...but he always has been if I ride in his home paddock.

I also know that I'm not capable of riding him....I need a quieter horse...one with omf...just not that much omf.

But I couldn't sell him the way he is...no one would buy him and I couldn't be guarantied the buyer would find out what was wrong... So of course I would have to find out before I even considered selling.

His back doesn't seem to be in pain...it's not sensitive and he's not girthy.

I'm worried and at a dead end.

He's has also become head shy.

It's like he is an abused horse...but I have not abused him!!!!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

WOW!
Of course, there is always the pain disclaimer, but that does not account for him riding fine at home
Of course , there is always the possibility that he has some neurological problem, but he also sounds like a horse that has gotten worse over time, testing the rider and upping the anti, when he did not 'get the right answer'
Kicking at you, hardly missing your head, -sorry no pain justifies that
Most horses in pain, don't jig, they instead try to short stride,change way of going,ect to compensate and dampen the pain
I think you now have a dangerous horse, that is beyond you being able to turn him around
Both you and the horse needs professional help, so you can learn how to handle and ride him. By all means, rule out pain, while you also realize that even if there was pain, the reaction by the horse way exceeds any acceptable expression of that pain, and also no pain explains his extreme disrespect, short of a brain tumor


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I'd like nothing more then some help, but I can't.
My dad would love to be able to get me lessons and help, but we just can't, and there is noway I'm going to push for one.

But I agree with you completely!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Sounds very dangerous, do you have any friends or family members that are experienced with horses that could help out? This is way over your skills and you could get hurt badly.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

"Also when riding he will throw himself at any object, concrete tanks, fences, trees, other horses, sheds, trucks, and tractors.
I've noticed that he does it even without me riding him."

He does that on his own? If so that is not a training issue. That's some medical problem going on.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I do have an aunts who is experience with loads of horses....but my horse is scared of her, and I secretly think she doesn't like him. She is also busy with her rescue horse atm...and if she rode him he would have every sickness under the sun. All of our horses should be dead by now...if they had everything she thought they had.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

That's what I thought Natisha.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Pretty radical behavior with the throwing himself at objects, and I wonder about a brain tumor. Do you have a veterinary teaching hospital near you or a vet clinic that can do a CT scan or MRI?

Of course, if he does have a brain tumor, he may not recover . . . but in cases like this, we just wonder and wonder until we know. 

Be safe. Your life is worth more than his, so don't put yourself in danger.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I'd have to ask my vet if they would do one, but I'm not sure.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

So, exactly how does he 'throw himself at things when not being ridden?
There is a difference in a horse doing some form of self destructive behavior, and a frustrated confined over fed horse running himself up against some rails of a pen
On the other hand, when my step dad in his ignorance, bought me a spoiled stallion when i was a teenager, among other things , this horse would run me against a fence, under the bridge to the hay loft of the barn, ect
Any chance he is crypt.?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

A video would be interesting, far as seeing what this horse is actually doing at liberty


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

your horse is scared of your aunt? I have have a hard time imagining such an aggressive animal as scared of a human, and if he is a bit scared, that might not be such a bad thing. respect can start from fear, if the human knows how to work that.

it's very likely that over time, you've let him get away with a lot of little things, here and there. for some horses, this is not a big deal, if they take a bit more than an inch, you just give them a short "smarten up!" and they go back to being respectful.
with others, like this one, they go way overboard and go past the place where YOU can change their mind about you and your authority. in such a situation, you may only put your self in greater danger by tying to convince them of your authority, when they are already pretty sure you don't have it.

I'd say if you can't afford a trainer, then your aunt is next best bet.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

He will be standing in the yard and he starts out pacing around the area...then he will thrust himself into the fence...almost as if he is trying to break through it.

He's not confined or overfed. He is out in the paddock grazing when I'm not using him, and we spend about an hour up at the yard. He either follows me around while I go about my jobs or he paces and throws his body into a fence. He does this with or without another horse.

I'm not sure what you mean by crypt?

I'll have to ask my dad if I can post a vid...but don't get your hopes up, he will probably say no. It would be very helpful though! I need some expert eyes!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

My horse has always been fussy over who he likes...he hasn't liked my auntie the five years that I've owned him...he's tolerated her...but he doesn't like her and he don't like blokes either.

I know that I let him get away with things in the past...I let him get away with too much...but I didn't know it at the time. I wish I could go back in time a buy a horse that was better suited!

Earlier this year he seemed to have respect for me and we were doing quite well...I don't know what happened to change him... but when I couldn't ride him for six weeks was when h_e _turned completely uncontrollable.

For personal reasons, I'm not going to get my auntie to help, not only is she busy with work her spare time is spent with her rescue horse and she has another one coming... She the weekend off and Sunday she has other appointments... and I can't do Saturdays.. It probably sounds like I'm making an excuse not to use her, but I'm not.

I have asked in the past, but she said she couldn't help...and she didn't give me a reason.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

crypt means he still has a testical inside of him that never dropped, and therefore was never removed during gelding. im going to say nurological. 

BUT! that being said i knew a horse who would throw herself on the ground with a rider, buck and rear (and flip herself over with a rider) if she was not ridden at LEAST 5 times a week. a day less and this behavior would serface. a trainer worked with this mare untill she ran herself into an concreat ditch and slammed herself down at least 7 times. when he was done with her she was coverd in cutts and gashes. took 4 months to be able to get within a foot of that mare. 

It could be some sort of extream behavioral issue of something is wrong with him. dose Loco Weed grow in your area? when horses eat it is messes with their brain and makes them act like that.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

OOOhhh. No, he's definitely not crypt!! 

I haven't ever heard of the weed but I'll have a look!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I asked dad if we have Loco Weed and he said no.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Is he pastured with other horses?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Most of the time, but sometimes he is on his own or only has one with him.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Just a thought. Have you had his eyes tested? Does he behave better when he is out with other horses, if his vision is bad, he may be staying close the them for security.
when he bumps into the fence is he trying to get to the horses on the other side of it?


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

This is really odd... possibly agree it could be neurological?
But also see some signs of disrespect and considering he rides fine in his paddock it's abit confusing what has set this off.. 

My TB jig jogs when he doesn't get his way or he goes sideways. I was watching my friend who took my horse out today and he wouldn't go in a straight line and kept trying to insist on a canter so he was made to walk and trot so he started to jig jog.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

A horse should be able to go six weeks without being ridden and return to work without the problems you are having. I have to question if this is a new problem (physical or training) or one that was there all along and just escalated.

It is interesting that he will ride in the paddock that he is familiar with, so in that case it seems it is not what is going on but where, You might want to keep notes on all his behavior. If he is good one day and bad the next think of anything that might have been different.

My first thought was something neurological but I am also wondering if a blood profile might show something. 

Above all, keep your own safety in mind until you get to the bottom of this


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I also advise getting his eyes checked


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

my fiance said to get i chiropracter out to see him.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

typo to get a chiro. I hate my phone -_-'. my fiance has seen things like this in the problem horses he has worked with. get a full vet workup. tell the vet whats going on with him. it could be his eyes/nuroligical/pain. a chiro will help alot if its pain but there still could be something going on that is causing this type of behavior.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I thought his vision might have been apart of it...but he see every movement I make and every stick or puddle in his way. I'm not going to rule it out yet though.

When I brought him he hadn't been ridden for six months and he was fine, and in the years that I've owned him he has had six weeks off before. One year he was off from Autumn to early Summer, because of an injury he had got while my sis was riding him. Which is why I got a shock when I got back in the saddle and he exploded.

He has had a streak of this in him all the time I had him...but I could usually pull him back into line, so I think it's something that has just escalated over time.

That was the first thing I wanted was the chiro...but atm it's either vet or chiro, and I would rather go for the vet first, so he can have a full vet check.

Our vet has recently had an Equine vet join her team, so I will book my horse into her, once I get the okay from dad.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Woodhaven said:


> Just a thought. Have you had his eyes tested? Does he behave better when he is out with other horses, if his vision is bad, he may be staying close the them for security.
> when he bumps into the fence is he trying to get to the horses on the other side of it?


He behaves just as badly with other horses, as he does when on his own.
I don't think he is trying to get to the other horses...because say he is in the yard and he _bumps_ into the fence, and then I let him out he has the choice to go back to the others, but he stays up near where I'm working.

And when he does it while riding, it is whatever fence or object is closest to him.
So I tried to ride in an open area away from any objects, but he would just rear and buck.

He also kicks out while I ride, and if we stop he paws and paws, then kick, then paw..try to ride and he will kick. I saw him do it in the paddock this morning.. and that makes me think that he is in pain.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

they have found pawing to be a horse's way of dealing with pain. this horse needs a vet asap. this is NOT normaly horse behavior at ALL.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

That's what I thought Kiger, and my horse has never pawed or kicked until this year...the kicking I think started out of disrespect, but the pawing started after that six weeks.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Horses that don't respect fences, will at times try to push through them, esp the more 'cold blooded types .
Try putting a hot wire along that fence, and see how he reacts
When I don't have that top wire of my two strand smooth wire hot, I have had some horses that would lean right into it, reaching grass on the other side
Again,without really seeing as to what he is doing, I still lean to a spoiled horse with no respect


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Your horse's actions sounds like what one of mine will do if they have a horse fly on them.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

We have just put some hot wire around his paddock, and he hasn't gone near it yet, but he has run up agaisnt one while riding...my leg only just cleared it, but he shot forward like a bullet!

I'm going to ask my cousins girlfriend to come and have a look at him. If it is lack of respect and behavioral she will know.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

JCnGrace said:


> Your horse's actions sounds like what one of mine will do if they have a horse fly on them.


Winter here, so no fly's.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Dad said no to a video, doesn't want it on the internet. Sorry, I know how helpful it would be!


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Clydesdales, will your dad say "yes" to having a vet out? I think that should be your next step whether or not the friend comes out to have a look at him. If he IS in pain, it needs to be dealt with as soon as possible . . . at least, then, you will understand his behavior better and can make smart choices about training options.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Give this horse away with full disclosure of his issues. You can't handle him now safely. 

This is a spoiled horse. Riding well in the pasture but poorly in the arena screams attitude problem, as does the kicking and hitting objects. I've ridden multiple horses that tried to scrape me off, including one that ran me into a tree. It's a pretty classic trick. As is rearing, bucking, kicking, etc.

Sorry op, you've badly spoiled this horse over the last 5 years. It likely started very minor and now it's dangerous. I doubt pain is the issue, at most only a part of the situation. Without professional help you could get very seriously injured.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm sure he will say yes, but it is next to impossible atm, and I know the longer without one the more trouble we will head into, but there isn't much we can do about it. 

If we could we would have the vet out S'arvo, but things are _very _tight right now. Meanwhile I could get my cousin's girlfriend out on a weekend. She has done vet nursing, so she might be able to tell me if it is pain..or she may not.

The vet we use isn't local and it cost's a fortune just getting her to the property.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Clydesdales said:


> I'm sure he will say yes, but it is next to impossible atm, and I know the longer without one the more trouble we will head into, but there isn't much we can do about it.
> 
> If we could we would have the vet out S'arvo, but things are _very _tight right now. Meanwhile I could get my cousin's girlfriend out on a weekend. She has done vet nursing, so she might be able to tell me if it is pain..or she may not.
> 
> The vet we use isn't local and it cost's a fortune just getting her to the property.


I see. I'm sorry. That must be really tough . . . but in situations like that, I guess horseowners have to learn as much as they can through discussion, study, and hands-on experience . My vet is 45 minutes away, and that seems to far sometimes.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

BlueSpark said:


> Give this horse away with full disclosure of his issues. You can't handle him now safely.
> 
> This is a spoiled horse. Riding well in the pasture but poorly in the arena screams attitude problem, as does the kicking and hitting objects. I've ridden multiple horses that tried to scrape me off, including one that ran me into a tree. It's a pretty classic trick. As is rearing, bucking, kicking, etc.
> 
> ...


If I give him away he will most likely end up on a truck to the knackery.

It don't matter if we are in the paddock, trail or arena... I've ridden him in an arena twice.

Don't be sorry, because I agree with you. It wasn't purposely done, he was too much horse when I got him, and I didn't know. If I got him now, we would be a great team, he would have suited me...but five years ago I was not ready at all.

I ride horses who buck and rear...run me under low branches to get me off, our first horse would ride so close to the fence that we would have skin off our legs from wire and star picket posts, but this isn't the same he acts as if he can't control himself.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I feel sorry for the horse, because I just don't know whats going on in his little brain...pain, or a spoiled horse, it's still unfair on him, and I just can't do anything for him.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

You can only do what you can do . . . 
Do your best, and you'll have no regrets.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Clydesdales said:


> He behaves just as badly with other horses, as he does when on his own.
> I don't think he is trying to get to the other horses...because say he is in the yard and he _bumps_ into the fence, and then I let him out he has the choice to go back to the others, but he stays up near where I'm working.
> 
> And when he does it while riding, it is whatever fence or object is closest to him.
> ...


Yes, if you think there might be a pain issue get that horse vet out, then if nothing is wrong with him, get someone that really knows horses, interpretate as to what he is doing, taking pain out of the equation.
You try to ride him away from fences, which, it sound like he loves to use to try and get you off, but if you try to keep him in the open, be bucks, ect, and takes you to that fence anyway.
He paws, when you make him stop-not unusual for a horse not taught to stop and stand, until asked to go, held back.
Kicking out when ridden, also not unusual if a horse has not learned to accept leg aids, and kicks out when they are applied , in resentment

I make the disclaimer, before I am jumped on, to rule out any pain, as that is always a possibility, or a brain leison, or a tumor, secreting abnormal hormone levels BUT I also see a horse that has become very spoiled, between the supposed pain justifications.
Afraid of your aunt? Why? is she the only one that demands any respect?


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

He stands out in the paddock and paws. He definitely knows his leg aids...and I don't have to be applying leg aids for him to kick... 

I think know why he is afraid of my aunt... when he first arrived she took him without my permission and gave him a bath...the horse had only been here over night and still hadn't settled. I happened to arrive unnoticed and watched her. The horse was upset and didn't like being at the Dairy...don't blame him, machinery, cows trucks, other loud noises was too much for him at one time in a new place. He was getting a little skittish and was moving around while she dragged the hose out, she asked him to stand..which he did for a short while, and then moved away from the hose..so she picked up the lead rope and whacked his shoulder and rump, then spun him in circles yelling at him.
She is good with horses and has been around them for years, but sometimes a cog spins loose, because at times she does the stupidest things.

If he had of been aggressive toward her or he had been at the place before, I would have been okay with her actions, but he was upset and disorientated. My horse hasn't liked her since.
My horse hasn't liked, hoses, ropes, or water since.

As for being the only one who demand respect, no far from the only one. My sister don't let no horse push her around, and she has handled this horse as much as me. She has trained her current horse, yet when she climbs aboard my horse she has just a little control as me...the only thing different was that she didn't budge in the saddle once... I get bounced about while he Jigs, but she is like she has been super glued to the saddle.


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## BiologyBrain (Jul 9, 2015)

Can you longe him? What about leading him? Yielding his hindquarters & other ground work?


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## kelseyannxo (Jun 25, 2015)

Oh gosh. I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. 

Some horses are super high energy and will go absolutely nuts if you don't ride them 5-6 days a week. Bucking, rearing, kicking. To be honest, he's giving mixed signals. We want to say pain, but he acts a certain way sometimes and not others that makes it sound like he's just a brat. (Being ridden in his paddock) No offense to you, or him, of course, but he sounds unrideable and I know how much that sucks as his owner. I would love for you to get a vet out but I see how tight money is. 

Whatever it is, don't be so hard on yourself for not training him properly when you got him 5 years ago. 5 years is a lot of time to gain experience. Hoping it's not pain related so you could get this horse a professional to get rid of those nasty habits. Keep us updated! (Ps: please don't get on his back any time soon, we would hate to see you get hurt while he is acting this way)


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

BiologyBrain said:


> Can you longe him? What about leading him? Yielding his hindquarters & other ground work?



Yes, I can lunge him... most of the time I can lead him, but he is all tensed up.

I do a bit of ground work with him each day... I do most of the stuff in the link. But he shys away when I do stuff near his head, and flexing his head to his flank or shoulder is like a massive effort. Groundwork exercises: the 5 basics your horse should know


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

kelseyannxo said:


> Oh gosh. I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this.
> 
> Some horses are super high energy and will go absolutely nuts if you don't ride them 5-6 days a week. Bucking, rearing, kicking. To be honest, he's giving mixed signals. We want to say pain, but he acts a certain way sometimes and not others that makes it sound like he's just a brat. (Being ridden in his paddock) No offense to you, or him, of course, but he sounds unrideable and I know how much that sucks as his owner. I would love for you to get a vet out but I see how tight money is.
> 
> Whatever it is, don't be so hard on yourself for not training him properly when you got him 5 years ago. 5 years is a lot of time to gain experience. Hoping it's not pain related so you could get this horse a professional to get rid of those nasty habits. Keep us updated! (Ps: please don't get on his back any time soon, we would hate to see you get hurt while he is acting this way)


I appreciate ^ thanks!

I will keep you all updated, and don't worry I don't plan on riding him until I get him checked out, I will still be doing groundwork and stuff with him.

I don't have trouble with the other horses I ride either...which makes it harder for me to work out what things I'm doing to cause it.


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## DanceOfTheDead96 (Sep 28, 2010)

Clydesdales said:


> I think know why he is afraid of my aunt... when he first arrived she took him without my permission and gave him a bath...the horse had only been here over night and still hadn't settled. I happened to arrive unnoticed and watched her. The horse was upset and didn't like being at the Dairy...don't blame him, machinery, cows trucks, other loud noises was too much for him at one time in a new place. He was getting a little skittish and was moving around while she dragged the hose out, she asked him to stand..which he did for a short while, and then moved away from the hose..so she picked up the lead rope and whacked his shoulder and rump, then spun him in circles yelling at him.
> She is good with horses and has been around them for years, but sometimes a cog spins loose, because at times she does the stupidest things.
> 
> If he had of been aggressive toward her or he had been at the place before, I would have been okay with her actions, but he was upset and disorientated. My horse hasn't liked her since.
> My horse hasn't liked, hoses, ropes, or water since.


I don't see why this would have caused an issue, at least not the way you describe it. I don't care if my horses are unsure of the stuff going on around them I expect them to behave because I told them to and if they aren't paying attention to me I make them..but then I don't like getting stepped on, kicked at, or run over because my horse thinks that everything else is more important than listening to me...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

I think sometimes we make the mistake of looking for one answer to a problem when there can actually be a number of factors contributing to it. I still think this is a physical problem but there could be more than one. It would be easier for him to deal with discomfort while idle but being ridden makes him resort to "his bag of tricks" to get out of work


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

He sounds not really 'broke' to me.
We can go round and round, until a vet rules out any pain issue, as that is always a possibility, but at the same time, he just sounds like a horse very 'full of himself'
Jigging and a pain issue, just does not add up
Yes, maybe Auntie handled that bath in correctly-still that does not explain his behavior since then
Pawing and rolling is often seen in cases of colic, but pawing is also a very common activity in horses, and also a vise, in horses that
don't wish to stand, either while ridden or tied. A horse that jigs is also very likely to paw when movement is restricted
If you really think there is a pain issue, you need to have that verified or ruled out, so that you can start to assess the issue, whether any pain is involved, or you are faced with a horse that is truly spoiled and not really suited for your level of experience


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## BiologyBrain (Jul 9, 2015)

Clydesdales said:


> Yes, I can lunge him... most of the time I can lead him, but he is all tensed up.
> 
> I do a bit of ground work with him each day... I do most of the stuff in the link. But he shys away when I do stuff near his head, and flexing his head to his flank or shoulder is like a massive effort. Groundwork exercises: the 5 basics your horse should know


By all means eliminate pain from the equation, but I wouldn't ride a horse that I couldn't handle completely on the ground. I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, but I think it's easy to get caught up in the fun of riding and neglect ground work, but it usually comes back to bite you - or kick, rear, buck, etc. Your groundwork doesn't have to be flawless, but if you notice he's tense when you're on that ground, that tension is just going to get worse in the saddle most likely. 

You may try some clicker training with him. Treats and clicks are definitely great ways to eliminate tension! The biggest problem is if he already has respect issues he could throw biting into the mix. If I were you, I'd get a good rope halter (preferably with the extra knots on either side of the bridge of the nose) and at least a 10' lead and start drilling him on his ground work. Be vigilant for any sign that he's tense and go to the previous step or to an exercise you know he is calm for. You could also try to train him (perhaps with the clicker) to do the head down/calm down on command. For some horses, that immediately switches their tension off even if it has been high. 

Of course, if he's bullying you, you may just need to end your association with him while you still have some confidence. Sticking with a horse out of determination to 'fix' them or a misguided loyalty to them is detrimental to both of you. 

I had a mare that loved to be driving and was good in the round pen, but a terror under saddle and at times when on a lead. I had bred her mother to get her, raised her, trained her from the ground up, and knew she didn't have holes in her training. If anything she was over trained and thought more like a human than like a horse (I was 15 when she was born). She became dangerous for me to ride and affected my confidence so badly I avoided riding. Then she became a terror in hand as well, further deteriorating my confidence. I finally called it quits and sold her - with full disclosure. Not before she kicked me in the chest in front of a prospective buyer though. When I got my next horse I spent 3 months on his groundwork making sure I had his respect before I got on him. Plus it took me that long to get my confidence back to ride without transferring my nerves to him. However when I did ride him, I wished I'd sold my mare much sooner because the joy of I riding came back so quickly. I had missed it for so long I didn't realize it had gone.


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## ahop (Feb 7, 2011)

You have a lot to think about with all the differing opinions you have received. I am of the opinion that you do not have a lot of money to throw at this problem and are trying to resolve it yourself but are at a loss as to where and how to start. Yes, pain should be addressed but to do that in depth costs money, as well as having a professional step in to help with training issues. I have said this before and I will say this again - there are too many good horses out there to put up with one that doesn't fit your needs, goals and ability. It might be time for you to cut your losses and consider moving this horse on and replacing it with one that will give you joy and pleasure. You don't seem to be having any of that currently and at the same time are putting yourself in a dangerous position. And you should NOT feel guilty about doing this. Sorry, just my honest opinion. Good luck with whatever route you choose - just stay safe.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

As far as "some horses are high energy and go nuts when not ridden 5-6 days a week", I disagree. There are some horses with difficult personalitis that need regular work, but I doubt this guy is one of them. Energy level has nothing to do with misbehaving. I have an Arab, and anglo arab yearling and a ottb with experience doing pony express and chuck wagon racing. All are very well behaved, most people won't believe their breeds, including my vet.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

The bath incident happen five years ago...my horse remembers a face and a voice...since then he hasn't liked me aunt. He had been on the place for less the 18 hours, when he had that bath... He came from a lovely quiet Stable, with a couple of race horses. He hadn't been touched, other then fed, for six months, so moving to a busy farm, being taken to a strange loud area filled with sheds, machinery, cows, tools... and the sound of other horses in the distance, would have been a bit overwhelming. 

He is definitely broke, he is 17, and did PC, Cross Country, Show Jumping, and a little bit of Dressage. Yes he was way too much horse my ability five years ago. I would have sold him two years ago if I had of been allowed to, and I would have brought a better suited horse.

My horse has always been timid, shy, easily spooked and if frighten of something once in his life it takes a VERY long time for him to get over it, yes part of that problem would be me, I know!

If I could of had lessons I would have..if I could have, the problem I'm having wouldn't be half as bad, but not everybody can afford them. I would love to have lessons, it would be a dream come true.. I wanted to sell him two years ago..really pushed for it Last year, because I knew that I couldn't control the horse properly and I wanted to sell him while he was still worth some money, so I could buy a horse that suited me. I wasn't able too... They thought I wouldn't get a horse that was as well trained as he was; but what was the point of having a animal that was too good for me...I tried to explain that it wasn't fair on the horse, because he was getting worse. Things started to get better... and they all said, "I told you so" Now look where I am... I nearly had my melon squashed twice in a week. 

I can't afford to have a vet and Chiro out... So I'm going with the option I have... This lady may not be a vet, but she knows what she is doing and has done vet nursing, so she would have an idea if something was painful.

If I could go back in time... FIVE years ago with the knowledge that I now have, I would NEVER have brought a horse like him, even now if I was buying a horse, I'd get one better suited to my ability, and lifestyle.

And this horse wasn't only for myself, my sister shared him, and at the time she suited him quite well. I have always been the nervier rider out of us two, she was always bursting with confidence and jumped anything and everything. She galloped everywhere.. So the horse was pretty fired up when it came to my turn to ride.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

This lady has also trained many horses... so if it's behavioral she can help me work with him.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

ahop said:


> You have a lot to think about with all the differing opinions you have received. I am of the opinion that you do not have a lot of money to throw at this problem and are trying to resolve it yourself but are at a loss as to where and how to start. Yes, pain should be addressed but to do that in depth costs money, as well as having a professional step in to help with training issues. I have said this before and I will say this again - there are too many good horses out there to put up with one that doesn't fit your needs, goals and ability. It might be time for you to cut your losses and consider moving this horse on and replacing it with one that will give you joy and pleasure. You don't seem to be having any of that currently and at the same time are putting yourself in a dangerous position. And you should NOT feel guilty about doing this. Sorry, just my honest opinion. Good luck with whatever route you choose - just stay safe.



I would love to do that!! All I want is a horse that I suit..that I will enjoy, can ride and control. I have one wall in my path... my parents.
And this horse isn't worth much now... who would buy him? My dad doesn't want me to end up horseless.. but I am basically horseless, and it would probably take a trip to the hospital to make him see it my way.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Clydesdales said:


> The bath incident happen five years ago...my horse remembers a face and a voice...since then he hasn't liked me aunt. He had been on the place for less the 18 hours, when he had that bath... He came from a lovely quiet Stable, with a couple of race horses. He hadn't been touched, other then fed, for six months, so moving to a busy farm, being taken to a strange loud area filled with sheds, machinery, cows, tools... and the sound of other horses in the distance, would have been a bit overwhelming.
> 
> He is definitely broke, he is 17, and did PC, Cross Country, Show Jumping, and a little bit of Dressage. Yes he was way too much horse my ability five years ago. I would have sold him two years ago if I had of been allowed to, and I would have brought a better suited horse.
> 
> ...


Clydesdales, my first horse was too much horse for me, too. I had never had a lesson and didn't even know that horses' needed to have their feet trimmed or needed to be wormed. I learned everything from Western Horseman Magazine and a "basic horsemanship book" along with hands-on experience. Never had a lesson until I was in my late 30s. I just didn't know about lessons . . . never knew anyone who had them when I was younger. She was one of the two fastest horses I've ever ridden, was scared to death of men, especially farriers and vets (Oh, MY!!) and would freak out if cornered by one of them. I learned more from that horse than I can say, not only how to stick on a horse bareback through cornfields and pheasants, but how to have light hands, patience and how to trim feet! She taught me how to be a better person. I got that mare when she was 6-years old when I lived in Wisconsin, and she went with me to Alabama, Maine, and then Vermont where I buried her at the age of 29. I cried for 3 days after she died. She had been with me through puberty, high-school, college, marriage, and the birth of four children. We became suited for one another because I loved horses enough to not give up on her, and she always forgave me for the mistakes I made. 
I don't know if this horse is a good one for you, but I know you are learning a lot from him, and I hope that you will become a better horsewoman and person because of what you learn. Glad you have some help from a friend, and it's so great that you have this online resource, and others like it, too. You are doing the best you can, and I can tell you have a courageous and compassionate heart.
Keep your chin up and your eyes open when you are around your horse. I hope that his problems can be resolved with the resources available to you . . . and with time and patience, too.
If there are physical issues, I hope your friend will be able to help determine that and get the help for the horse that is needed. 
Keep on keeping on, young lady . . . and be safe.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Here's what I'm gleaning from what you've written. He hits the fence, you open the gate and let him out. You've inadvertently trained him to do that. You feel sorry for him. Stop. You need to provide leadership. He's picked up on your lack of leadership and is calling the shots. When he does anything he shouldn't, like shy at someone or something, get after him, don't pet him and speak in a soothing voice. He sees it as a reward and will repeat. Make him move his feet. Teach him that unwanted behavior results in hard work. Carry a lunge line and whip whenever you're leading him and as soon as you get unwanted behavior, lunge him 3 circles with several reverses of direction. Make him hustle at a brisk trot. No more than 4 min. then start walking with him and repeat and repeat if you have to. It takes about 3 repetitions for a horse to figure out why he's made to work.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

I didn't mean for it sound as if I let him out when ever he hits the fence!
I experimented to see his reaction when I let him out, but no, if he wants to throw himself into the fence, I'm not going to stop whatever it is I'm doing to let him out, I check that he isn't hurt.

Thanks, I'll be doing what you advised.


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## ahop (Feb 7, 2011)

> I would love to do that!! All I want is a horse that I suit..that I will enjoy, can ride and control. I have one wall in my path... my parents.
> And this horse isn't worth much now... who would buy him? My dad doesn't want me to end up horseless.. but I am basically horseless, and it would probably take a trip to the hospital to make him see it my way.


I truly feel for you. Would it be possible for you to show this thread to your parents? Maybe they might understand better how frustrated and fearful you are and rethink their position.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

ahop said:


> I truly feel for you. Would it be possible for you to show this thread to your parents? Maybe they might understand better how frustrated and fearful you are and rethink their position.


ahop! I thought this thing, exactly, as I was doing chores last night . . . 
Might help the parents understand.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

How does the horse do for your sister?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes, when we are young, we often survive and even out of sheer determination and luck, with little or no knowledge, reform a dangerous horse, but the opposite also happens
Through incorrect handling/riding, a smart horse can learn to take advantage,and go from being well trained, ridden by an experienced rider, to a horse that becomes totally spoiled, ridden or handled by someone he learns does not enforce the rules, under saddle or in hand
I, like Holly, learned a lot from my first saddle horse, who was extremely spoiled, but that does not mean I ever in my life would have let any of my children, when they were my age , ride such a horse!

My parents were not horse people, although my stepdad used Percherons in the tobacco fields. I learned to ride on them, bareback, going full gallop with just a halter
I begged for a saddle horse, so my step dad finally relented. Not being a horseman, put a practical man instead, and since those work horses were mares, he bought me a stallion. Not just any stallion, but a spoiled anglo Arabian, that reared, went over backwards, tries to get me off by running me against a fence, would wheel and bolt for home, kicked out when led, getting me in the hip, etc
I was lucky, looking back, that I had not been seriously injured or even killed, and my mother must have suffered 1000 deaths, watching him go over backwards with me.
Yup, I even rode him in my high school parade, eventually, but looking back, in no way would I ever recommend that exerience for another child!


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Smilie said:


> Yes, when we are young, we often survive and even out of sheer determination and luck, with little or no knowledge, reform a dangerous horse, but the opposite also happens
> Through incorrect handling/riding, a smart horse can learn to take advantage,and go from being well trained, ridden by an experienced rider, to a horse that becomes totally spoiled, ridden or handled by someone he learns does not enforce the rules, under saddle or in hand
> I, like Holly, learned a lot from my first saddle horse, who was extremely spoiled, but that does not mean I ever in my life would have let any of my children, when they were my age , ride such a horse!
> 
> ...


hahaha!!! Isn't it crazy? All my heroes were cowboys, and they used to mount by jumping over their horses' rumps, gallop all over the place, flop their elbows like chickens as they headed out at a gallop after "the bad guys," and I loved watching "the Indians" gallop with their bows and arrows poised, no hands on reins, in moccasins and hair flying in the wind . . . Ahh, FREEDOM! I never knew we weren't supposed to do the same thing!
After I had kids, my whole view changed, and when I started teaching 4H and went through instructor certification clinics with different organizations, and went through the liability workshops! Oh, my! Suddenly, riding became: boots with a smooth sole and heel, a helmet that fits correctly, long pants for riding, arena work around cones before heading someone out on trail . . . NEVER galloping on the road or through fields where there might be fawns or pheasants or whatever . . . I became so cautious because I didn't want the kids/students to get hurt (like I sometimes did . . . lol) I used to crawl under my mare rather than walk around her, sit on the ground by her feet, go barefoot around my horses and ride in shorts and no helmet . . . Never, ever heard of something called "lessons" until I met a girl who had ridden hunter/jumpers and always wore her black velvet helmet and seemed snobby . . . so, "lessons" didn't seem like a positive thing to me.
There are pros and cons of everything . . . and I am thankful for the freedom I had and for the love for the Horse that is in my blood . . . otherwise, I would have given up a long time ago . . . but unless we have that genetic tendency to horse addiction that creates an infinite curiosity for learning more and more about everything Horse, it's tough to "stick with the program" when we get scared from a painful experience.

(p.s. . . . and sometimes, it's tough to regain confidence after a horse trauma even when we've been working with and loving them for most of our lives!)


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

hollysjubilee said:


> ahop! I thought this thing, exactly, as I was doing chores last night . . .
> Might help the parents understand.


I had the same thought yesterday arvo!
I showed it to mum, and explained the Equine language that she doesn't understand 
She now has a better understanding of my side of things.... dad I still need to work on!

My friend Laura, is trying to come over S'arvo, so fingers crossed I'll have a clearer view of things by tomorrow.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Laura, couldn't come in the end, her bub was sick, she's working all week, so she is trying again next weekend.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Got some good news!


My horse is booked in for a check up with the vet, in about 3 weeks. She has to come out and check up on a horses foot injury, so I added my horse to her list. The only way to get her out earlier is if a cow goes down.

Not sure what will happen after the vet sees him, but it's a start.

I'm still trying to convince dad, that he is the wrong horse for me, and if it behavioural, I'll get my friend to give me hand with him, then see what we can do about selling him.
I've convinced mum, but dad is harder to soften.

He had a pony, but you could jump on bareback and bridless, then gallop down the paddock with no worries.... Called bombproof.... Not all horses are like that!

Also because my sister has successfully re-educated an ottb, and my brother also clicked with a young ex-trotter, dad thinks I should be able to manage a 17yr old.
Now I'm not trying take anything from my sister, but all her horse did was run in a circle, mine knows all the tricks in the book, competed in most English disciplines... My horse needs someone with the experience... Not me!

I know that me and a young uneducated horse is a bad match, and there is noway I'd get one, but just because my horse is older doesn't mean I can handle him either!

Oh and he's made friends with our pigs... I don't know how he even got into the paddock beside them, but he don't wanna leave them!!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

My aunty Bec said I should take him away from the pigs... Would it hurt to leave him for the day? He's in a separate paddock.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Clydesdales said:


> My aunty Bec said I should take him away from the pigs... Would it hurt to leave him for the day? He's in a separate paddock.


I would probably move him, Clydesdales. Do you feed the pigs grain? I am not sure if their feed is good for horses. 

Also, when I had pigs, their area was a muddy mess most of the time, and that wouldn't be good for his feet.

Congratulations, though, on having a horse that LIKES pigs. I've had and been on horses that TOTALLY FREAK OUT when there are pigs (tame OR wild) around. Something about the smell of pigs that horses really don't like . . . except your horse, I guess!


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Okay, I will move him.

We do feed them grain, but their feed pen is two paddocks away from his reach, though he got in there on his own, so I won't take any chances!!

He normally freaks out with pigs, cows, dogs and ducks... But he found these guys himself... Usually it's my sisters tb who makes friends with every animal.


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## Clydesdales (Sep 12, 2013)

Got some very good and exciting news for my horse!!

I was talking to a very experienced horsewoman, and after telling her about whats been going on she gave me a phone number for a bloke who works with problem horses.
She said that this bloke is true to his word and very good at what he does. He will have my horse for a week to access him...experiment a few things, and if he thinks that the horse is fixable we'll talk about him having him for however long, or he'll say to put him through the sales.
She said that it's rare when one of his horses go to the sales, and that what he also does is get the horse sell-able...

So I'm going to ring him and talk about everything, get a quote on it... then see where things go from there.

I'm going to wait until the vet has seen him though.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Clydesdales said:


> Got some good news!
> 
> 
> My horse is booked in for a check up with the vet, in about 3 weeks. She has to come out and check up on a horses foot injury, so I added my horse to her list. The only way to get her out earlier is if a cow goes down.
> ...



So glad you are getting the vet out! 
Since you have 3 weeks, try to take videos of all of the strange things your horse is doing both in the pasture and while you are riding. Make sure the vet knows which behaviors are brand new to make the most of the exam. Hopefully this will lead to some real answers for you. 
If a lot of this came on suddenly (and some of it sounds pretty strange to me!) it cannot all be about lack of training.


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## hollysjubilee (Nov 2, 2012)

Great news and hopeful for you and your horse! Look forward to the next update!


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