# son n mother inbreeding on by accident



## luckyluciano (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi guys this is my first post on top of having my first horse,been riding for awhile just my first owned horse named "Regalo". Regalo is a morgan. Regalo was given to me by owner because he was the result of an accidental inbreed between son n mother. So my question is. What if any health possibilities can i expect since such close inbreeding involved. My appologies if this ia dumb question. Both mare n sire are very healthy horses. Thanks for any help.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Your horse is gelded? I hope!

Basically while not ideal - it's not a death sentence. Any bad traits can be more pronounced. I would find out if there is anything that runs in the family (bad legs, eye issues, etc)

Other wise - carry on as normal with the routine health care!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

What mls said. 

While not an ideal breeding, I wouldn't worry overmuch.


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## momo3boys (Jul 7, 2010)

It actually happens more than you think. A lot of breed registries will have the same ancestor multiple times. My Rocky's grandfather and father were the same horse!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

momo3boys said:


> It actually happens more than you think. A lot of breed registries will have the same ancestor multiple times. My Rocky's grandfather and father were the same horse!


 
This happens on Jerry Springer show quite a bit as well.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Just remember it's only inbreeding if you don't like the results. Otherwise it's LINEBREEDING. LOL!


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## StacyRz (Sep 14, 2011)

^^^LOL Dreamcatcher


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Just remember it's only inbreeding if you don't like the results. Otherwise it's LINEBREEDING. LOL!


Perfectly said lol!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Line breeding and in breeding are not the same thing, for what it's worth.

In this case, you should be fine. The ONLY problem with in breeding is a simple genetics one. Say that Horse A is bred to Horse B, and foals Horse C. Horse C has 50% of each parent's genetic material. If Horse A had some recessive gene that caused something bad, for this example lets say "bunky leg syndrome", it has a 50% chance of passing that recessive gene on to Horse C. If Horse C, which has a 50% chance of carrying the Bunky Leg gene, is crossed to Horse A, who carries Bunky Leg but the owners don't realise, the resulting foal, Horse D, has a 50% chance to get a copy of Bunky Leg from Horse A, and a 50% chance of getting a copy from Horse C. Before you panic though, this does not equal a 100% chance to have the Bunky Leg gene. What this does mean, is that there is a 25% chance of having NO Bunky Leg, 50% chance of having one copy of the gene, and 25% chance of having TWO copies of the gene. Having two copies of Bunky Leg Syndrome gene will then cause Horse D to display the Bunky Leg traits.

So as you can see, in breeding like this just gives you a chance of doubling up on hidden recessive genes that the closely related horses might both be carrying. It does NOT give you mutant foals, foals with three heads, or foals that are always sickly.


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## StacyRz (Sep 14, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Line breeding and in breeding are not the same thing, for what it's worth.
> 
> In this case, you should be fine. The ONLY problem with in breeding is a simple genetics one. Say that Horse A is bred to Horse B, and foals Horse C. Horse C has 50% of each parent's genetic material. If Horse A had some recessive gene that caused something bad, for this example lets say "bunky leg syndrome", it has a 50% chance of passing that recessive gene on to Horse C. If Horse C, which has a 50% chance of carrying the Bunky Leg gene, is crossed to Horse A, who carries Bunky Leg but the owners don't realise, the resulting foal, Horse D, has a 50% chance to get a copy of Bunky Leg from Horse A, and a 50% chance of getting a copy from Horse C. Before you panic though, this does not equal a 100% chance to have the Bunky Leg gene. What this does mean, is that there is a 25% chance of having NO Bunky Leg, 50% chance of having one copy of the gene, and 25% chance of having TWO copies of the gene. Having two copies of Bunky Leg Syndrome gene will then cause Horse D to display the Bunky Leg traits.
> 
> So as you can see, in breeding like this just gives you a chance of doubling up on hidden recessive genes that the closely related horses might both be carrying. It does NOT give you mutant foals, foals with three heads, or foals that are always sickly.


Good job explaining. I'm really surprised at how many people think they can "pick out" an inbred animal. I've raised dogs for 20 or so years. I always have told people, _when you think you're doubling up on the good, remember you're also doubling up on the bad._ Linebreeding and inbreeding should only be done by experienced breeders. Whether a horse or dog, I like to see the whole package (ex. a German Shepherd conformationally correct that can also work.) 
People are always so quick to blame every fault be it behavioral or conformational on "ohhh it's inbred" without even seeing the pedigree when in fact it probably is not.

Edit to add, by experienced breeders, I mean someone who know the history of several horses/dogs whatever... in several generation...I am not referring to people who just pump out these animals "because they can."


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

On the subject of breeding within families... Is it true that highly inbred/linebred horses have more temperment issues than "normally" bred horses?

I was talking to someone who owns a Walker whose maternal and parental grandfather are the same horse. The grandfather horse's lines are also fairly inbred, along with many of the other names on her gelding's pedigree. She says it does funny things to a horse's mind and temper. 


(Just asking a stupid question!)


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## StacyRz (Sep 14, 2011)

You are not asking a stupid question... It's a good question. If the horse is inbred or linebred on a horse or horses that are not of a sound mind- You betcha!!! 
That's where knowing every horse in several generations comes in very handy


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I personally don't believe that genetics have a larger influence on a horse's temperament than their environment does. It is the classic debate of nature vs nurture, and I am solidly on the 'nurture' side. 

As far as horses go, if you look at the owners of related horses, they are generally similar and use the horses for similar purposes, if that makes sense? So while the horses have a similar genetic pool, they also have a similar environment too. That is what I believe anyway, and who knows if I am right or wrong. The debate will be waged forever, or until we can isolate 'personality' genes lol.

Does inbreeding make horses more inclined to be nutty? I don't think it does. _If_ genes are responsible for a horse's personality, then sure, in breeding can double up on genes, and you will find that they often have similar personalities. But I stand by it being a similar environment causing family lines to have certain traits, rather than solely genes being responsible.


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## StacyRz (Sep 14, 2011)

And also knowing when to outcross, as well as which bloodlines cross well with the line you are line/inbreeding on.

To be honest when it gets to the point of an animal having a funny mind and temperament, it's not something I would even bother to breed on at all. Just my opinion.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

StacyRz said:


> And also knowing when to outcross, as well as which bloodlines cross well with the line you are line/inbreeding on.
> 
> To be honest when it gets to the point of an animal having a funny mind and temperament, it's not something I would even bother to breed on at all. Just my opinion.


I agree, but I wouldn't do it because the dam can influence the foal's personality by modelling how to act, not because of the genetics of it lol.

Disclaimer: I do believe that genes have SOME input on temperament, but not the be all and end all. I have identical twin daughters - so they have the exact same DNA as each other, and they have completely different personalities lol.


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## StacyRz (Sep 14, 2011)

Hmmm I have pondered the nature/nuture a lot.. I am not a good debater at all though LOL I think I am way to open minded to be any good at it =)

I have seen bad dispositions in certain lines keep repeating themselves in completely different environments, so where my heart wants to say NURTURE, I think I lean more on the side of nature.


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## StacyRz (Sep 14, 2011)

YES YES YES!!! I do agree that the dam can model a foals behavior! Absolutely! I see this in dogs a lot


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

And here we have the classic debate of nature vs nurture. There are SOOOOOO many different factors that there is no possible way to do a conclusive experiment to prove either theory, so it will always remain a theory lol.


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## StacyRz (Sep 14, 2011)

Very true.. way too many factors lol. It IS always an interesting topic though


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I agree. Developmental psychology was one of my fave units at university, and that was humans. Horses are a lot more fun because they don't try to tell you that they are the way they are because their mummy never loved them lol.


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