# German martingale on the trail



## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

I am a novice rider with a new 5 yo Peruvian Paso. Previous owner had him on quite a severe bit, and trying to downgrade him to Kimberwicke curb. Have been training him using German martingale to set his head, but I have read that that equipment should not be used on the trail, since it is of course a training device and forces the horse to hold his head correctly. Going on trail ride next weekend; what are you guys' opinions ?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't see a reason to use it from what you said. Using it as a head setter doesn't help the horse to properly, and moving properly is what sets the head. I don't think it should be used on the trail or off in this manner, but that's just me.

I think if you're concerned about headset, taking some lessons with a trainer will help you teach the horse how to move his body correctly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

It's use on the trail is not an issue. But it's use to set the head is an issue. If you try to force a head set, you are forcing the horse to move unbalanced and out of it's natural way of moving.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I see trail riding as a good way to clear the cobwebs. That being said, it does not mean training goes out the window.

Unless the horse is dangerous with head tossing, I would loosen the martingale on trail. The horse will still know it's there but not so restrictive that he is sore after the trail ride. If he becomes really naughty, you can tighten to remind him.


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## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

yes, I am sorry. I didn't make it clear that my horse has been head-tossing quite a bit, sticking his nose in the air and getting all hollow-backed. Am using the German martingale on the first dee, which doesn't even bring him quite to vertical, is still above vertical. So am using it only in the mildest manner. Do you think we can go on the trail in this low setting ?


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I think I'd work on his head tossing issue at home to find out if there is something causing this. Teeth, discomfort someplace, bit type and fit...? There is usually a reason. We just have to find it.

Out on the trail I prefer to have as little equipment as possible. Less chance to get tangled in something. I want a horse to be able to look where she (I ride a mare) is going and what's ahead of her, at her feet and off to the sides. I think a trail horse needs freedom of movement of that head. When that head comes up she is looking at something and I want her to be comfortable with moving ahead. Often they can sense and see things we are not aware of. It's a partnership of sorts going down a trail.
If you use the martingale just make sure he has his head when he needs it and I'd stay out of the brush....Just my humble and meager advice.


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## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, thank you. So much agreed that trail-riding is very much a partnership, and horse needs all of his senses, etc. My horse was unhappy in his previous severe bit, and I think the head-tossing habit developed there; it has improved with the Kimberwicke. Maybe I will try him with the running martingale before we go, and see how he does with that. So much appreciate all the responses.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

To be honest... I'd be interested to put him in something super gentle (like a french link snaffle)--in an arena or controlled area, of course--and see how he responds. I have heard of many head-tossers that became quiet when switched to a double jointed snaffle!

My horse's last owners always had him in a martingale, but I never use one--especially when I'm on the trails and am trusting my horse to maintain his balance. Over the past month, he has learned to relax his head/neck and lower them on his own (with occasional reminder bumps from me).


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## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes, thanks ExPony. First thing I did was try mild snaffle, and unfortunately he ignores / runs through it. And I can't have that, he is quite high-energy and would rather run than walk, which is quite fun, BUT, i have to be able to stop him. Trying to use mildest bit which till affords me some control. His head-tossing is way better on the Kimberwicke. Just has nose-up-in-the-air tendency, gets pacey and hollow-backed, which is why I am training with the Germ martingale.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

Anything but maybe a running martingale is dangerous on the trail, in my opinion. A trail horse's job is to take care of himself. In order to do this, he needs freedom of balance. Horses use their heads and necks to balance going up and down hills. A horse may need to lower his head and inspect footing before proceeding.

Branches and vines may snag on your equipment, he may get a leg through it while we eats or lowers his head, etc. An even worse distaster would be your horse tripping with a GM on. :shock: He would be unable to regain his balance, go down, thrash, still be unable to right himself, and hurt himself.

If you need a martingale, use a running. You can give him as much freedom with a running as needed by letting out your reins.

Also, have you been doing one rein stops when he "runs through" snaffle bits? Or any bit, really. Using two reins gives them something to brace against and run through. It's a lot harder to run away when you're only using one rein for control. One reins stops and lateral flexion may really help that head tossing problem.  He's also find that it's a lot harder work to be one-reined stopped every time he goes faster than a walker than to try to gait off with you. He may just choose to walk after a few consistant sessions.


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## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks so much for the advice BrightEyes. Your advice sounds right on the money to me. Yes, have been practicing one-rein with him, and he does already know the maneuver, from previous training. I will practice this weekend with him using the running martingale. See how he does, and only use that on the trail. Though he is young, he has a lot of trail hours behind him, and does know "the drill" on the trail. I have been concerned, b/c every thing I Read says use GM for training only. Yet my trainer uses it on her horses most of the time, but she doesn't trail-ride. Thanks so much; I will practice my one-rein stop, nd also try the running mg.


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## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

Have you tried a bosal? Many traditionally trained Peruvians are trained in that first before the bit and are quite well behaved in it. Some Peruvians are quite hot, especially show trained ones. Others can be fairly laid back. It is considered one of the "hot" breeds. I personally love the feel of energy under you that you get on a well trained one. All that fire held in by no more than the lightest touch on the reins, ready to explode at the riders slightest command. Absolutely my favorite breed to ride just for that feeling.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You didn't describe the "harsh" bit. A long shank doesn't necessarity make a bit severe. In fact, when my (then 3yo, now 6yo QH) was tossing his head with an eggbutt snaffle I switched successfully to a mullen mouthed Pelham. My favorite bit--I now use on my 14yo mare, but bought several for my finished Arabian, finished QH, and finished QH/TWH cross--has a low port, and is smooth and wide where it meets the 7 inch long, s-shaped shank. EVERY horse I have used it on loves it.
I would NOT ride outside on the trail on a bit that won't stop my horse. Unless the mouthpiece on your horse's bit is sharp, or twisted or cruel, I would keep it for trail work, and start switching to a new bit in the arena, ONLY.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I have heard horror stories of horses that panicked and flipped over backwards and others that have drowned themselves in rivers from the use of standing martingales or tie-downs on trails. A running martingale should not be a problem. I would be sure that whatever you use, you have breaks. 

This horse may do great on the trail. Some horses like getting out and about.


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## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks to all. Yes, I am pretty well-convinced that the GM is not to used on the trail. To Gaited, my Peruvian is the most fun, exciting horse. He loves to go, but is also so sweet and willing to learn and try anything I ask of him. All I have to do is show him it's not scary, and he's like Well ok, if you say so. Yes, he's a little hot, but also NEVER boring. I've already had a couple offers from folks to buy him for showing. The previous owner called his bit a "spoon bit". It Did have long shanks. But what bothered me was that he so preoccupied with it, head-tossing and seemed as if that was all he could think about. Corporal, can you tell me the brand and make of the Pelham your horses like? I will surely order one and try it. And Celeste, he does love the trail; he perks up and just loves it when we just walk in the woods behind the horse farm. Can't wait to take him for a real ride, think we'll be good partners. Will try the running mg this wkend.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

Sounds like this horse needs to go back to ground work 101. He needs to be soft and supple in the bit with ground work. Then you won't need any aids when you ride him. Trying to fix his problems from the saddle is nie on to impossible. And your teaching him to be hard mouthed.


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## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks Bob. I do appreciate your remarks, and that is what my trainer and I decided today. He was a real butt today, and we are going to work on discipline. That is the main issue.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

Careful " we are going to work on discipline"

It is probably not discipline he needs, but rather training and redirecting his energy to productive ends.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Karan (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks Bob. My trainer and I are working on groundwork, and respect exercises, not so much discipline. I have a ways to go in that area. Yesterday was way way better than Friday. I did try a Pelham bit yesterday, and it helped a lot. No head-tossing or preoccupation with the bit, he was comfortable, and stopping was a lot easier.


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

I trail ride in a GM occasionally, my mare never puts the loop of the martingale reins and I trail ride on the buckle, but for whatever reason, she is 1000x more confident with it than without. I don't always do that because I like to jump stuff I find on trail and I don't like to jump in the GM... but if I'm riding out solo or out the first time of the year, I use it with no shame


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## LeynaProof (Jan 3, 2013)

I compete in Endurance and my one mare who is 13 has been using a running martingale since she was 4. My other horses use regular martingales. We use them to help keep them traveling straight and not all strung out. A horse moving down the trail all strung out for 50 to 100 miles is bound to come up sore at some point. I think you should make the decision. If you think he needs the martingale then use it on trail if you just want to use it while training then use it like that. You know the horse best so at the end of the day it's your call. Have fun and be safe!


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Too many holes in this horses training to be riding him out on trails to me. Use of any martingale for head tossing is wrong to begin with.

Either something is wrong with your mechanics, or former owner's or there are physical issues with horse.

But fix them, and not by using something to hide it.

Dental, saddle fit, chiro needed, horse not trained, or you are heavy handed, or jiggling reins or FO did, but whatever? Needs to be worked through, not forced into submission.


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