# difference between trot & jog? how about canter & lope?



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I thought a jog was slower than a trot, and a lope was slower than a canter. Seems like the lope is a very slow, round gait, with lowered neck whereas the canter is more "up". But I'd love to hear what others say.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I was taught jog is slower than a trot with less animation and smaller ground covering motion of the body.
Same for a lope versus canter...slower in speed, but also smaller movements of the horses body and less "action" of motion of the body as a whole...
I hope you could understand that.... but basically western gaits to me are slower speed, motion and primarily leg action than riding the English larger gait with a bot more impulsion of ground covering wanted/needed.
This is what I was taught that would apply say to a equitation class...have "0" idea about western pleasure cause to me that is a foreign looking horse performing not anything natural to me about carriage and gaits.


I find riding western is as much "work" for me as riding English to keep the body aligned, quiet. sightless cues given and being a partner to my horse when in the show ring...
Now, allow me to go trail ride and complete pleasure it is for both horse and I enjoying our scenery and time together...no not-picking to be just so.

:runninghorse2:...


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Ok, so thirty five years ago, it was pretty much the same thing. In western pleasure, they liked to call the slow trot a jog. As far as gait, it's the same thing but slower. As with anything over the years, people have a tendency to want to exaggerate things to stand out. The jog is still the same two beat gait as a trot only sloooowwweeerrrr. In English, it would be a slow trot so we are now back to calling the same thing two different names.

Imagine if someone came to watch people riding, and they've always rode english and have never seen western riding. They make a comment "That horse has a really nice canter" Another person who's ridden western all of their lives says "Oh no, that's a lope" The english person is scratching their heads as they are seeing this three beat gait duh duh duh- duh duh duh They ask "What is a lope?" the other person "That right there" English person "that's a canter if I've ever seen one"

I personally don't see any difference unless you want to differentiate it by speed but it's still the same gate. There is obviously a difference between a canter/lope as opposed to a gallop. Three beat vs four beat.

Personally, I think that if you want to differentiate between speeds in the same gait by calling them different names that is fine but it's still the same gate. Wouldn't it be less confusing to call it the specific gate with a speed attached to it? Or is this too boring?


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

One good way to see the difference between the two styles would be to look up on the computer an AQHA western pleasure class to see how they move at the jog and lope, then look up a Hunter Equitation class to see how the movement is at the trot canter. I would suggest you don't look at AQHA for the English class in order to get a better variation, but even AQHA hunter under saddle should show some difference
This should give your children an idea of the difference.

I looked up an AQHA west pl class one time and at the lope my husband came over and looked at the screen. he said "all those horses are lame, what's going on?" 
He is not a horse person and that was just his observation.


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## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

I had the opportunity to ride an Appendix a few years ago. To my English-trained self, the 'jog' was slower, yet also had a decidedly lateral movement in the hinds, and I was told that this is typical of a quarterhorse jog. So, I believe that breeding also comes into play in defining the difference. In asking your child to feel the difference, perhaps it was speed as well as laterality.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

I've ridden a couple of western horses who had amazing jogs. You just sort of... set it and forget it. Once they're in a jog, they seem quite happy to maintain it. The last horse I own had been a western horse up until I bought her (I was a pony clubber, so it was all English with me), but had all the buttons. She could jog at the same speed as a walk, and it was relaxed and smooooooth. 

I was putting exercise rides on a friend's western horse a couple of summers ago, and while he wouldn't go AS slow, he still had jog as a very distinctly separate thing from his trot. Again, you could just put him into it, and totally relax. His trot, however, was quite fast and animated.

Both of these horses had pretty big canters, though, so I don't think I've ridden a real "lope."


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> Hiya, My eldest is doing Cert 1 in Equine Studies this year & today was their first prac day, at a QH stud & training facility, Western oriented. They got to ride in a Western saddle & now they want one
> 
> So... Darcy just asked me what is the diff between a jog & a trot, or a lope and canter. I said it was just Western v's traditional terminology for the same thing. But seems that's not correct, in these people's eyes at least. Darcy was on lunch, watching a different class lunging horses(why they didn't feel they could butt in to ask), and they were telling the students to "ask for a jog... now ask for a trot... see the difference?" and "get him to lope... now get him to canter... see the diff?"
> 
> So, can you please enlighten us, what IS the difference?



I ride western, your kid probably rode a pleasure horse. A jog is a slow comfortable trot (you can easily move with the horse), it should he slow and relaxed. A lope is just an easy nice and balanced canter. Controlling the speed with your seat and voice cues is important. (you can say hmmmmmm to make em go slower and go sit deeper too. Or you can say easssssyyyy to make them transition from one type to another but you will still have to use seat and leg cues too to tell the horse exactly how much you want him to slow down. If you take of your legs and say easy a well trained reining horse may very well hit the breaks hard... ) I learned to only take up contact when the horse doesn't respond to the seat. It depends on how the horse was trained, some ppl ride them with contact and a bit, some use neck reining and bitless. You need to learn this by 'feeling' it. This can be done by riding a well schooled horse that knows what to do. This will give your kid the aha erlebnis and they will know what it should feel like.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

SteadyOn said:


> I've ridden a couple of western horses who had amazing jogs. You just sort of... set it and forget it. Once they're in a jog, they seem quite happy to maintain it. The last horse I own had been a western horse up until I bought her (I was a pony clubber, so it was all English with me), but had all the buttons. She could jog at the same speed as a walk, and it was relaxed and smooooooth.
> 
> I was putting exercise rides on a friend's western horse a couple of summers ago, and while he wouldn't go AS slow, he still had jog as a very distinctly separate thing from his trot. Again, you could just put him into it, and totally relax. His trot, however, was quite fast and animated.
> 
> Both of these horses had pretty big canters, though, so I don't think I've ridden a real "lope."



why do you think I ride western? Lol. Those horses are a dream to ride. The cantering can indeed be really fast and extreme on reining horses, but they are taught to speed up along certain lines in the riding area so...  I definately learned to stick to the saddle on those horses, haha.


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

As already noted, imo, they are the same footfalls/gait for jog/trot and for lope/canter. The jog should be easily sit-able by the rider as it's a slower cadence/tempo, whereas a trot may or may not be sit-able and may require the rider to post for balance and to avoid bouncing. Yes, the jog can have more of a side to side feel, depending on the horse. The lope is a slower, softer version of the canter. Neither jog or lope should be so slow as to change the footfalls, as in the artificial movements seen in modern Western Pleasure Classes too often. It might be helpful to think of the difference in jog vs trot, for example as similar to the difference in Dressage for free walk vs working walk, or working trot vs extended trot,,,similar as in difference in length of stride and implulsion. 

Anyhow, that's my take on it and my limited understanding.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Woodhaven said:


> I looked up an AQHA west pl class one time and at the lope my husband came over and looked at the screen. he said "all those horses are lame, what's going on?"
> He is not a horse person and that was just his observation.


Well, as a long time horse person who just had no clue as to WP, as in for showing, a few years ago I did/thought exactly the same as your husband... posted here with questions(& admittedly some assumptions) and got blasted. It just looks so awful & uncomfortable for the horse...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Spanish Rider said:


> I had the opportunity to ride an Appendix a few years ago. To my English-trained self, the 'jog' was slower, yet also had a decidedly lateral movement in the hinds, and I was told that this is typical of a quarterhorse jog. So, I believe that breeding also comes into play in defining the difference. In asking your child to feel the difference, perhaps it was speed as well as laterality.


I don't understand what you mean by 'lateral movement of the hind'? Do you mean hips swing more or something? I'm familiar with riding pacers, where they sort of 'side to side' rather than 'up & down' of a trot...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Jolien said:


> why do you think I ride western? Lol. Those horses are a dream to ride. The cantering can indeed be really fast and extreme on reining horses, but they are taught to speed up along certain lines in the riding area so...  I definately learned to stick to the saddle on those horses, haha.


Jolein, I now understand this difference in *terminology*(thanks everyone), but I'd say to the above, you haven't ridden a well trained 'English'(or just other than 'Western') horse then, if you feel that is why you ride Western - differences in speed within a gait aren't just a Western thing - for eg. I could comfortably do a slow trot bareback on my old boy for hours, or I can ask for a fast trot, which is uncomfortable for too long if I don't rise to it.


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## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

loosie said:


> I don't understand what you mean by 'lateral movement of the hind'? Do you mean hips swing more or something? I'm familiar with riding pacers, where they sort of 'side to side' rather than 'up & down' of a trot...


'Lateral'/lateral movement is just a term for side to side movement or 'to' the side.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Hmm, haven't thought about that with a slow trot - will have to pay attention as to whether their hips swing more.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Ok guys, then what is the beat of a jog. It used to be a two beat gait that looked amazingly like a trot. When did jog change from just another word to a complete different gait?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^I got the idea from what others said here that it is indeed a trot by another name, only the speed is the difference.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I'd like to add that a jog and a lope aren't exclusively Western things. Thunder has both a jog and a trot, and a lope and a canter. With his jog, as in every jog, there is minimal knee and hock engagement and the overall motion is flat and smooth. He has a horrendous draft horse trot, very up and down with higher knee and hock action and it will darn near knock the fillings out of your teeth. The difference between his lope and his canter is less marked but it's still there - again, minimal knee and hock action and much smoother ride overall. 

I've yet to find Dreams' canter, though he also has a definitive trot and jog. When pressed Dreams' lope will get faster, his strides longer, but it never really changes in smoothness nor in engagement of his hocks and knees. It's just as easy to sit loping slow circles in the arena as it is moving right out on the trail. Just faster motion, is all.

-- Kai


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

LoriF said:


> Ok guys, then what is the beat of a jog. It used to be a two beat gait that looked amazingly like a trot. When did jog change from just another word to a complete different gait?


Jog=2 beat gait,,,ie a slower , softer trot
Lope=3 beat gait, ie a slower, softer canter

I don't think anyone has said they are 'complete different gait',,,that was asked in the original post , and clarified by responses to be same gait, just slower versions that got their own names. 

Clear as mud? ..lol...


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

loosie said:


> I don't understand what you mean by 'lateral movement of the hind'? Do you mean hips swing more or something? I'm familiar with riding pacers, where they sort of 'side to side' rather than 'up & down' of a trot...


Maybe what they mean is this here starting at 8:16. What I see is a very unbalanced horse with his hip being pushed to the inside to give the illusion of deeper hock action. This looks very labored to me, either that or lame which I doubt. To me, that is more a gimmick than a gait.


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## VaqueroRoper (Jan 19, 2020)

There is one difference between a lope and a canter.....the saddle on the horse. They are the same gait. The only reason people have begun to consider the lope a slow canter is the western pleasure folks. Other parts of the western riding world do not make their horses travel in those awful slow gaits. 
The incredibly slow western pleasure gaits are a thing that the show people have perpetuated and force the horses to do. As to the people saying the horses look lame, that is because it is not natural for them to travel in the way western pleasure makes them. As a farrier, i can attest to the fact that making them travel that way will break them down faster than they should as well.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

That's really hard for me to watch... and boring too, tho I 'flicked' through it. What on earth do you call that at the 7min mark? Is that a lope?? Looks like it could make for a good 'lame horse scene' in a movie... the faster they get, the more it appears so. By the 8.15 mark, as they speed up a little, looks uncomfortable to ride too - laboured for both horse & rider, it seems to me. And I tried to ignore the constant spurring to get what the guy at 17 mark was getting... I just don't get why you'd even want a horse to do that. Doesn't look like 'Pleasure' to me, for horse or rider.

Anyway... yes, it was a post with a clip similar to that I posted some time ago that got... heated. So lets just agree to disagree as to whether it's a good, bad or indifferent thing, and stick to the original question... what it is.

So, is that, in the vid what Western people would call a 'proper' lope? And the 'proper' jog, I did notice a difference in gait between a regular trot, in which the horse should 'track up' (unless he's lame), - the hind foot landing in about the same spot the fore just left from - while these horses all took tiny steps, nowhere near tracking up.


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## The Equinest (Dec 18, 2019)

The greatest difference is just terminology between the two disciplines and the conformation of the animals favored in each discipline. English calls it a canter, western a lope. English will often call it a trot, western calls it a jog. Sometimes both terms are used interchangeably, but in essence they are equal. A jog might have connotations with a slow trot due to show terms, but originally at least they were simply idiolect of each discipline. 

Secondly comes conformation - the standard QH jog, which is the breed typically favored in Western disciplines, is very different from your standard WB trot, for obvious reasons. QH have been bred for their peculiar(at least I find it rather peculiar) 'working trot' for many years, which is trot lacking the great deal of suspension, extension, and collection(not collection in a dressage sense, just merely the extending and gathering of the body). It is said to be efficient due to the lack of movement on the Y-axis and instead the emphasis of flat movement rather than any propulsion upwards. (Which, as someone who rides horses that must move efficiently or fail at their task, I find rather counter-intuitive. You must have some suspension to allow the horse maximum extension of the stride, otherwise the horse will not have enough time to swing it's legs out far enough and will be left with shorter and less extended strides. Not to mention, a horse is designed to have a certain amount of suspension at each gait, not the lack of it. I'm not much of a QH fan, I'll admit - Morgans and mustangs are my good "stock horses".)

WB's and other "English" horses are very different. They carry a great deal of suspension, extension, and collection in their gates compared to most QH. On the WB side, this is likely due to the emphasis of WB's being the best at dressage, or XC and jumping, all of which require a great deal of extension/collection, and suspension in gaits. Looking at a QH and comparing it to WB, TB, or other types of sport horse you can easily spot the difference most times. The only QH I've ever seen that could possibly pass for a 'sport horse' in my eyes would be Apollitical Jess or California Cash 37. 

So, perhaps you might say the Western lope is different from the English canter - the horse's movement is certainly different. An English trot is different than Western jog in only the horse's movement. In my understanding, all that separates them is style and conformation-influences movement. I have always said "trot" as a Western rider, and "canter" for lope most of the time, but I grew up riding both disciplines and learning the concepts and theories of both, so whatever seems most natural is what comes out of my mouth.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This forum has discussed this before; how unnatural WP showing is. Political correctness prevents us from calling a spade a spade, but this type of showing, this kind of 'horsemanship", is unnatural, and is detrimental to the horse. How this can be called a 'pleasure' is a mystery to me. what more can be said?


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> Jolein, I now understand this difference in *terminology*(thanks everyone), but I'd say to the above, you haven't ridden a well trained 'English'(or just other than 'Western') horse then, if you feel that is why you ride Western - differences in speed within a gait aren't just a Western thing - for eg. I could comfortably do a slow trot bareback on my old boy for hours, or I can ask for a fast trot, which is uncomfortable for too long if I don't rise to it.





I rode in an english saddle twice, once in a lesson and once on a trailride. On the trailride I felt really uncomfortable in the saddle, it felt like I couldn't sit balanced (when standing still). Maybe the saddle was a bad fit for me? I fell off during cantering because I lost a stirrup and the horse I rode was only under saddle for a few months... The other time I took a lesson in an english saddle and when I did two point riding I had to physically force my legs to stay underneath me... when I ride in a western saddle I just stand up in the stirrups, really relaxed and my posture is right without me trying to physically force my leg backwards. Also when I rode english the instructor told me I had to clamp the saddle with my legs when doing two point riding and also when cantering. This all felt very unnatural and inconvenient for me. I like to ride in tack that makes it easy not in tack that I have to fight 'against'. Also my horse constantly tried to lower her head and I wanted to allow this but the instructor said I should force her to keep her head up and in the meantime squeeze her with my legs so she kept trotting... It all felt very forced to me... So maybe I just had a bad trainer of bad saddle?? Or is it normal that you have to struggle and squeeze like that??


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

tinyliny said:


> This forum has discussed this before; how unnatural WP showing is. Political correctness prevents us from calling a spade a spade, but this type of showing, this kind of 'horsemanship", is unnatural, and is detrimental to the horse. How this can be called a 'pleasure' is a mystery to me. what more can be said?





You might be right. I find a lot of things we do with horses to be unnatural... We do it because we like it, not because a horse might do this as a natural behaviour in nature... When I ever get the money, gonna buy me a finished western horse and take her on trailrides and eventing (if she likes to run for long distances).


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Jolein, it's not about the tack. Or the gait. Sounds like either you weren't riding right or the saddle was imbalanced or such for you(this is just as common a prob for western or other saddles as for English) in the first instance. What type of saddle was it? And sounds like you were being instructed wrongly in the second instance. And guessing 'two point' is rising to the trot? You shouldn't be actually standing in the stirrups to do that, regardless of what saddle you use.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Jolien said:


> , gonna buy me a finished western horse and take her on trailrides and eventing (if she likes to run for long distances).


Is eventing even a thing for western horses? And a western saddle would make it more dangerous... you'll need to get used to an English saddle then. But for eventing or trailriding, you'd better hope your 'finished western horse' isn't trained to travel like those in the vid, or he won't get far.


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## The Equinest (Dec 18, 2019)

@loosie

Yeah, western horses(meaning QH/Paints) are not meant for jumping. Conformationally, they're so shoulder heavy I'd imagine it would be quite hard on their joints as well, more than the average well-built jumper. If I were to jump a QH, it would have to be an Appendix or Running-Bred QH like California Cash 37, who is quite nicely built in my opinion. Or Apollitical Jess. Anything of a different build... I feel as if they'd go lame in a few weeks of conditioning and training. 

I prefer a mustang as my "stock horse" personally.  Much nicer gaits as well.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Yeah I was thinking about western *trained* not nec. certain breeds. And, as Jolien seemed to think western trained meant western saddle...


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> Jolein, it's not about the tack. Or the gait. Sounds like either you weren't riding right or the saddle was imbalanced or such for you(this is just as common a prob for western or other saddles as for English) in the first instance. What type of saddle was it? And sounds like you were being instructed wrongly in the second instance. And guessing 'two point' is rising to the trot? You shouldn't be actually standing in the stirrups to do that, regardless of what saddle you use.



It was a Wintec saddle and it felt too small, the front part was poking in my crotch. I really felt weird and unbalanced. I don't have this problem when I ride my friend her horse, but she uses a 2000 dollar saddle especially accustomed to her horse and she is approx the same body type and height as me so it makes sense we both fit in that western saddle. Yeah, the instructor told me to do the rising trot and squeeze the saddle while doing it, it all felt very disencouraging to me to ever ride english again... :s


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> Is eventing even a thing for western horses? And a western saddle would make it more dangerous... you'll need to get used to an English saddle then. But for eventing or trailriding, you'd better hope your 'finished western horse' isn't trained to travel like those in the vid, or he won't get far.





hihi, there are eventing saddles for western too so I guess it is. I saw a ranch renting out mules in eventing western saddles in about a 2 hour drive from where I live. I want to try this out soon! (they only rent to experienced riders so I first need to practice some more)


I just want to travel long distances together with my horse and have a good physical challenge. It doesn't necessarily needs to be eventing though, just travelling together in the woods and cantering...


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> ^Yeah I was thinking about western *trained* not nec. certain breeds. And, as Jolien seemed to think western trained meant western saddle...



no, I meant western trained.  Trained to neck rein and listen to voice commands. The english riders here are totally prohibited of using their voice to cue the horse (I guess that's a general rule) and they ride differently. If I want to slow down on a western horse I sit deeper and take off my legs a bit. If they want to slow down they keep leg contact and use their seat. I think this is not logical, I am really clumsy and logically oriented so I'd like to use the same cues I learned riding in. Also not capable of reschooling myself so I'll have to buy a schooled horse.


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## The Equinest (Dec 18, 2019)

@Jolien


Western and English really aren't that different. Personally, the only difference I see is the focus on lack of contact(draped reins) in Western, and maybe saying "whoa" every now and then. In most Western communities, there's not a huge difference in training other than that(we might have more focus on the whole "frame" thing on a loose rein, but personally I think that's kind of a joke as it just tends to follow show-ring fads and improper self carriage most of the time). English has a bit more nuance in my opinion, due to the focus on balance and some sort of "collection"(or whatever that discipline likes to call collection, who knows - most barrel racers I meet seem to think collection is an arched neck, and most every-day dressage people seem to think the same). The cues really aren't that different if you know how to use them properly - for example, if I want my horse to stop nice and firmly in Western, I'll sit down in my seat and drive him up with my legs, then wait for his back leg to reach forward into a new stride before asking him to stop when the weight shifts back onto that back leg. If I'm in a hurry, however, and I don't have time for a "showy" stop, I drop all leg pressure, sit down deep, and stop him. A correct "halt" would be the first, a more "working" halt I suppose could be the second. I don't always have time to focus on what my horse's back legs are doing if I'm practicing cutting out a horse from the herd or wheeling around to chase a calf that's going for a bolt. 

The principles of good riding are universal.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Since showing in the ranch classes where they call for extension of gaits, it's called out as "jog" meaning slow trot/trot, "extended trot", meaning just that. "Lope" and "extended lope". I have never heard "canter" used in the western classes. 

And western does have it's own version of eventing, reined cowhorse


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks for getting thread back on track Cowchick!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

@Jolien I am thinking endurance not eventing as eventing is English (dressage, stadium jumping and cross country). Most styles of saddlery have an endurance version. Lighter weight and optimizing rider comfort over the long haul.


IME what started as a terminology difference became a discipline difference (class - western pleasure specific) where gaits were slowed to such a degree it needed structural change and tendencies for moving that way bred for. Conformation - form follows function. Or more specifically structural correctness determines how a horse travels. With QH there are conformation traits that are bred for by discipline. Some lines are better conformed for the chosen discipline than others. I see this as different than overall good structure hat lends itself to any discipline but doesn't carry the animal to the top in any discipline. Some disciplines have gone to the extreme and opinions are going to be heated. You can say the same for TWH. WBs were created as sport horses following English disciplines and their form lends to that. 



I don't show or follow western much so don't know if they use jog/trot or lope/canter for slow/fast. I am thinking they just use jog and lope. As someone else pointed out English riders would be familiar with working walk, free walk, extended walk, medium walk..... They even refer to a horse that breaks gait into a trot (slow trot) as a jog.... or jig....


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