# stallion safety - how is it different to geldings/mares?



## churumbeque

Ive always been around well behaved stallions and they were like any horse.
The only thing that comes to mind is leading them by a mare in season. When riding it was never a problem but if leading and heading towards a mare they might thing its breeding time.


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## greentree

Stallions retain more of the "fight" from the "fight or flight". You learn to be careful to temper your discipline to not seem to be picking a fight. In a wild herd, stallions fight.

They know the leader even more so than mares or geldings, and MUCH more of their disposition seems to relate to how they are handled. 

I adore my stallion. He is the only horse I have ever had who whinnys at me and comes RUNNING when I call him out of the pasture. I have had him since he was a yearling, and it was my vet that said most of his disposition was my handling him. 

I have been around many stallions, mostly Arabians, and observed the same. The bad ones are usually improperly handled. My friend turned around a Saddlebred stallion, who was so nasty he would drag multiple men around the barn, despite nose and lip chains. Now she breeds him by herself.


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## blue eyed pony

My mentor did exactly that with a Thoroughbred (except not with chains, he would drag big men around with a rearing bit). By the time she sold him she could hand breed with him in a rope halter, and he was so good that once, when one of his mares got free of the breeding hobbles RIGHT as he was told he could mount her, L backed him off, told him to stand, then fixed the hobbles *with him standing there watching* and went back to him and let him mount the mare. And he was a perfect gentleman about the whole thing.

Better to handle the horse right from the outset than to have to try to turn him around, of course.


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## DuffyDuck

I bought a three year old stallion. My trainer bred her own horses and had six stallions on the barn and years of experience. 

So I turn up on the yard with this largely unbroke, untouched three year old that has been dragged from the back of a barn covered in dust and snorting like a dragon. 

Trainer laughed and said I'd have my hands full, the other owners on the yard started tutting that I was irresponsible and my mother held my hand and told me all the reasons I had bought this magnificent dragon horse.

So I took him to the indoor and led him round for fifteen minutes, threw a brush over him and put him to bed.

I kept him as a stallion for a month, and he didn't put a toe out of line ONCE.

My biggest problem? Other owners.
One woman putting her frisky mare in the walker in front of him. Another who was terrified Dubai would mount his gelding and in his actions caused more dangerous situatians than if he had left the animal there. People MAKING drama.

The first time I rode him in the school with other people there was one old gelding in a lesson, and two mares. I had lunged him, but I couldn't wait till 2200 every day to ride when the school cleared. I asked if anyone had a problem, and if he acted out we would remove ourselves. The trainer's other half agreed it would be fine. He jogged three steps then chilled out on a loose rein. My trainer came screeching across the yard yelling at me. Never had a problem.

I did a LOT of ground work with this horse. *I made sure every situation I went in to meant I was not setting HIM up for failure. *We were learning together, and as much as I'd like to say I could put him in any situation and he'd be on his best behaviour, I did not want to look for problems that would leave us on a negative note.

I gelded him, and it was the best thing I did as a non-breeder. But even to this day, my newer trainer who now owns him, keeps me updated on what an amazing horse he is... all down to the amount of ground work and rules set in place from the word go.


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## SueC

*Handle/ train*: Don't drop your mindfulness, especially around mares. Keep a little extra distance to other horses you don't know. Don't be rough with a stallion, be firm and fair and fun to be with. Make sure you are the one with the mechanical advantage - don't stand or walk in a place in relation to him where you can be easily brushed aside if anything fun catches his attention. Ensure he has lots of physical exercise and mental stimulation, and a paddock buddy if possible, or even better, some sort of herd.

*Ride*: My parents preferred not to geld their performance horses while they were racing (the testosterone does make a difference). So, they had quite a few entires for racing on the place at any one time, plus two breeding stallions. It was a bit of a circus. Actually, the racing stallions were much more laid-back than the breeding ones, who had no riding or other work and tended to get bored and frustrated in their paddocks. Anyway, what I was going to say about working stallions is that I always found they had a business attitude the moment you got in the saddle or cart, and they like to be busy. It's when you get off them that you mostly have to watch what they want to get up to.


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## EliRose

The stallion my coach/BO has is so quiet he is trail ridden with mares he's been teased with multiple times. Her 15 yo son is going to be competing him this year in the jumpers and prelim. She considers him the best horse she's ever owned, and he passes his disposition (and excellent conformation) on to all of his babies.

Also note that this is a BIG horse, a 16.3hh RIDSH. Even though he is basically perfect (and I absolutely mean that) you have to be cautious around him. But then you have to be cautious around every horse, so what's the difference?


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## Rainaisabelle

I was told the difference was that you can't ever turn your back on a stallion they are more sensitive when it comes to who is the leader and don't like to be nit picked. Although I know their are exceptional stallions which act like geldings.


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## Saddlebag

Where I rode in Calgary, a gal a few doors away kept a stallion. No one would ride with her despite her pleas. Her boarding circumstance changed and no one would board her stallion until he was gelded.


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## Incitatus32

My corrections are quick, fast and impacting. I don't dawdle around. Studs leap when I tell them to leap and drop over dead when I tell them too. 

My stud colt for instance (though sadly soon to be gelded) is a perfect gentleman. You can walk him right past the breeding shed and he plods along. I can hand him over to an inexperienced handler and he will follow them anywhere. 

His father, an active duty stud, is the same way. Little kids can ride this horse past mares in heat and he plods along like they're not there. The reason for this is that he learned from day 1 that anything he did wrong was corrected like it was in the herd. My stud colt attempted to rear once. I made him realize within two seconds that rearing got him a harsh punishment. 

It also takes confidence. If you hesitate around a stud then they are going to walk all over you. I've been a groom to a lot of stallions. Some were good, some were great, and some were bad. I NEVER tolerated anything from them though and by the time I was through with them they would stand ground tied in the middle of a busy arena and let me get them ready for shows or breeding.


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## Smilie

The food and reproduction urge are two main motivators in horses. Mares are under the influence of their reproductive drive only certain times of the month and during the months outside of the dead of winter, while stallions are always infleunced by their hormones
Both sexes have individuals that are less hormone driven, thus, although one stallion might be docile comaared to another, or, through having received very through training, learned what all stallions must that are domesticated- to ignore their hormones when handled or ridden, the fact remains, they are stallions, and one must never forget that
As a stallion owner, it does not matter if some owner rides his in heat mare right up to under your stallion';s nose-you are still responsible for any consequences
I have shown stallions, and have had kids ride their pony mares right up to my stallion, had people tie their mare right next to my stud, at clinics, when going for lunch, even though I made a point of tying him separate, so you have to not only make sure you have 100 % respect, the attention and control of that stallion, but also be ever alert to 'stupid people around you
Sure, you can put amateurs and kids on well broke and mannered stallions, but it takes some good knmowledgeable training to get a stallion to that point, where he acts just like ahorse, when handled or ridden, and ignores his hormones
Very few, if any,a re born that way, and why stallions are mainly trained by professionals
never pick at a stallion, or you just make him resentful. Correct him hard enough to get the message across,a nd then treat him like nothing happened


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## blue eyed pony

It's interesting (as someone who has had only mares for around 18 months) looking at how people handle stallions and comparing that to how I handle mares. It's pretty much identical, except that a stallion never goes out of "heat".

Or maybe I'm missing something.

I'm probably missing something?


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## Palomine

You never forget they are stallions. Ever.

You do not take chances. Ever.

And you always but ALWAYS know what is going on around you.

I know of a girl who was at show leading her perfectly behaved stallion on the pavement, heading towards the trail arena. She walked behind a couple of mares tied to hitching post, one was in heat, she lashed out with both hind feet just because stallion was walking behind her, he did nothing.

Caught girl in head, don't know if she finally died, but she was hurt bad. And again. Her stallion? Did nothing.

Also need to be aware of bloodlines, as that can give you an indication of how a stallion might be. Some lines throw meaner stallions than others.

And even if you know what you are doing, and have been doing it a long time, you can still get killed by one, or badly hurt.

That happened to the female pair of QH trainers about 10 years back or so now. Wife was in pen lunging one of their stallions. Just like many other times.

He came for her, knocked her down and knelt on her chest and bit at her face and head over and over, trying to kill her. The grooms came to her rescue, and saved her, but he meant to kill her.

Also other breeds stallions can be different to handle too.


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## Palomine

blue eyed pony said:


> It's interesting (as someone who has had only mares for around 18 months) looking at how people handle stallions and comparing that to how I handle mares. It's pretty much identical, except that a stallion never goes out of "heat".
> 
> Or maybe I'm missing something.
> 
> I'm probably missing something?



Missing something. Stallions are different, handle them completely different from mares.


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## SueC

BEP, I think the handling of a stallion is not completely different from the handling of a mare. It just has added complexities and requires more thinking ahead, awareness etc. The consequences of a stallion getting away from you at an event are somewhat more serious for causing potential mayhem and injury than a mare or gelding getting loose, for example.


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## blue eyed pony

To be fair, my mare was quite dangerous when I got her. (I sold her a year ago)

So how I handle mares is with constant vigilance and awareness that I might have to move FAST at any moment.

Luckily my girl was never aggressive with her dangerous behaviour and never came at me. I think if she had I'd be dead because she's the horse that taught me to be aware at all times.

I'm a person who isn't afraid to wallop a horse HARD if its behaviour is dangerous towards me, and then forget it happened. I throw buckets if I'm being crowded at feed time, and I've been attacked by a particularly vicious gelding (threw the bucket at him then booked it out the gate, he proceeded to smash the bucket to bits). There are stallions I won't go anywhere near but equally there are mares and geldings I won't go near.

I also believe a single incident of dangerous behaviour should earn any stallion a swift trip to the vets to lose his balls. I don't care about bloodlines, conformation or talent if the horse is dangerous. And I also believe it's worth having a specific set of gear that ONLY gets used at breeding time (say, a specific type of halter, or a specific bit, or a stud chain only at breeding time and never at any other time) because that way the stallion knows when he's allowed to look at mares and when he's not.

And I think it's stupid to walk within kicking range of any horse, but particularly a mare I don't know!


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## GlowHorse

I really enjoy handling stallions--they are actually my favorite. But before I go into why, I'll add this: If you want to see what happens when stallions go wrong, watch the documentary *Buck*, about the natural horsemanship trainer. There is a Palomino colt in the film that was orphaned, raised horrendously, and was pretty much as wrecked as a horse can get. There were other factors there besides him being a stud colt, but that was a big one. 

I'm actually warier of mares than stallions, although I'm probably in the major minority feeling that way. I have been bitten, kicked and charged by far more mares than stallions. 
I've had stallions act personally aggressive towards me twice in 15 years of handling horses. More often their faults during the the times I've handled them are distractibility and dismissing your presence. Also, in my personal experience stallions seem to act a little younger than they are/be a little slow to mature. They were still a tad silly and coltish even at 5 and 6. 

The truly good stallions I've handled had so much try. I've never seen horses with the level of try those guys had. There was a WB, a TWH and an Arab that particularly standout in my memory. They wanted a bit of a relationship with you first--they definitely improved by the 3rd or 4th time I handled them. Once you had their respect and affection they would try anything. 

Like everyone said, be aware, make sure they respect you, just like you should with any horse but make sure you never drop your awareness, not for a second, when you're working them.

From a hands-on perspective, I realize it's kind of a funny suggestion, but I really stand by the idea of working with a few miniature stallions for a while for someone who is just gaining experience working with them. When I make that suggestion at my barn a lot of people act insulted--but wouldn't you rather make your mistakes with a 36 inch tall stallion than one that is 16 hands?


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## blue eyed pony

I was actually vaguely planning for my first stallion to be an 11hh Welshie, until I learned that Welsh A stallions are more studdy than pretty much any other breed (this was coming from a man who'd been breeding Welshies for 60 years). Then I figured I'd go looking for a stallion who was easy to handle and not really care so much about breed or even size. (I have a love-hate relationship with ponies, they're evil lol but I enjoy their attitude - and for a first stallion you really want one that's a gentleman, just like with a first horse. I don't know too many ponies that would be suitable as a first stallion)

But I don't have the experience yet, so when I'm a bit more settled into being back in horses (I'm just coming back after a year off) I'll probably ask around and see if anyone knows anyone who has a well-behaved stallion they'd be willing to let me handle to learn to handle them properly.


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## SueC

blue eyed pony said:


> I also believe a single incident of dangerous behaviour should earn any stallion a swift trip to the vets to lose his balls.


I can't agree with this one, since the fault for horses behaving dangerously usually lies with the humans who have not educated them properly.

I do agree that stallions with a nasty temper are better off not passing of their dispositions to any offspring...except when there are good reasons to think that inappropriate living conditions have soured the stallion. Stallions post-working lives are often kept in social isolation and with insufficient physical exercise or mental stimulation, and this frequently results in frustration, depression, stable "vices" and exacerbated aggression. If the stallion's disposition improves significantly when these issues are addressed, then if he had other very favourable characteristics I wouldn't rule out breeding from him.

If I'd kept a stallion entire purely for performance reasons and that stallion retired from competition, then if I wasn't interested in breeding from him I'd book him in to be gelded pronto. This makes it easier to integrate him into horse herds and give him a nice life, and also simplifies his management. I've two ex-stallions here who were late-gelded, one at 11, one at 17. They didn't get on as stallions, but, with careful progressive socialising post-operation, they're good mates now, and peacably running with our other horses, donkeys and cattle.


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## blue eyed pony

I should clarify that that statement is assuming the stallion has been correctly handled. Obviously a horse that's been abused or simply handled by an idiot is going to display dangerous behaviour. But if the horse snaps for no reason once, it's going to happen again.


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## SueC

And how do you know if there is no reason? There usually is a reason, even if people can't see it.


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## blue eyed pony

That would take knowing the horse all his life, I think. Knowing the behaviour wasn't because he was poorly handled at some point, knowing it's not because he's kept on his own with no stimulation, knowing he's not simply lashing out in frustration because he doesn't understand something or a mare has rejected him.

But as far as I'm concerned if a horse is dangerous it shouldn't be bred from.


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## SueC

Oh yes, I quite agree that a particularly dangerous horse (whether mare or stallion) shouldn't be bred from; it's just that nature vs nurture needs to be taken into account. I actually think the most dangerous horses are "chickens" who go totally headless, over and above aggressive animals. But then again, many "chickens" are made so by nurture as well: Horses who are born in herds and free-ranging, and then exposed to lots of "stuff" in their training, are usually so much more level-headed than horses born and raised largely indoors.


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## blue eyed pony

My girl was a giant chicken, terrified of everything and when she was scared she lost all sense of self-preservation. I've dealt with it. And I by far prefer it to a horse that's outright aggressive, trying to kill me. Which I've also dealt with. Wasn't much fun.


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## Foxhunter

Handling stallions is very different to other horses. 

I have had a lot of experience with TB colts as in them coming in for breaking and have stood several stallions at stud. 

One thing I always did was to have a stallion bridle for when we were covering the mares, this was different to their riding bridle and they soon learned to know it. 

I insisted on manners, they teased their own mares which were then taken to the covering area. The stud had to be polite when being led to the mare. They would be keen, probably jogging but always in position and never barging into me or rushing. 

Those that say they would held e moment the horse did something wrong is inexperienced. One Welsh Pony stud that came to me would have been put down as dangerous by his inexperienced owner. 
He came to me, he was a driving pony. I harnessed him up, he stood as good as gold, the moment I put my foot on the step to get in the cart, he reared vertical, and on coming back down took off at a spanking trot. 
Five miles later, with a couple of very steep hills on the way, he was content to walk when I asked. Next day he stood as good as gold not moving until he was asked. Within a couple of weeks I was using him to take hay and feed to the fields three miles away where I had young horses turned out and I could drive him around the field without him taking any notice of the other horses. 
This was a horse that with his previous owners had tried to cover a mare that was harnessed to a cart as he was!

Smilie has it right when she says that some have a higher sex drive than others. Those that think of nothing else need to be gelded sooner rather than later.

99% of it boils down to how they are handled and trained. The 1% is their ability to concentrate on the rider rather than other horses. 

William Fox Pitt had a very good horse, Oscar, that was a stud. He didn't have the ability to concentrate 100% with other horses around so, he had semen frozen and was gelded. The horse he won Badminton on, Chilli Morning, is a stallion and a totally different character hence he is still entire.


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