# Kentucky Derby '08 [image heavy!]



## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

They're all so pretty. I like Big Brown. It was so sad that Eight Belles had to be euthanized... it was horrible what happened to her. I didn't get to see the Derby for like, the first time in years...


----------



## ILuv2ride (Apr 29, 2008)

I felt so bad for eight belles she was young! Oh i also made a little horse memorial for her on the form if u can would anyone just post rip or something? Also i love those pics!


----------



## crazyhorse_joshmo (Apr 29, 2008)

yay Big Brown!!!! i was so mad wen i saw eight belles go down


----------



## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

omg! her legs are bent the wrong way in that picture! :'( :'(


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Aww that's a shame.  
Cute pictures, though!


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

What happened to her actually? I understand she finished the race anyway. Just SO sad...


----------



## Kyani (Apr 30, 2007)

Fab pictures, thankyou.

Kitten_Val, it was just another racing breakdown - babies being worked to hard, too young and compounded by the fact that racehorses are not bred for longerm soundess. Their legs just can't stand up to it - so sad. She had so much heart and talent and it was all wasted.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Horrible! HOW people can do it....


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah, it is.


----------



## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Is it bad that it really doesn't bother me either way? I know it probably is, but thats racing for you. If people insist on working youngsters hard they're going to get results, not always good ones. I thinks it's really stupid that scientists and specialists are making a big deal that it was the filly and that they're considering running fillies separate from colts. I also hate that PETA enthusiasts are all in a hullaballoo about how he whipped her mercilessly. That is a part of racing. I just think you have to expect injuries if you aren't 100% sure about the health of the animal.


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I know, that's why I don't like horse racing.


----------



## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

I don't disagree with it I'm perfectly fine with it but thats probably because I have learned to accept the injuries or something. Some horses absolutely love to run though so why ruin their fun?


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I respect your opinion.  I just don't that industry at all.


----------



## Kyani (Apr 30, 2007)

I have nothing against racing or against the way the filly was run in that particular race BUT I completely condemn the way they push babies too far in this sport. It's insane. It's like asking a ten year old to compete in the olympics - you can see the same result, and often injuries in a similar vein, in little kids with pushy parents who make them train far too hard in sports.
Even race breeding is aimed at success at 3yrs, and who cares what happens after that - so long as the horse was fast as a baby, it's fine to breed on serious conformation flaws which lead to severe unsoundness and contribute to breakdowns like these.

Eugh. Sorry. I just don't have much respect for the industry that caused this breakdown.


----------



## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

To me its always sad when a horse needs put down.

But I agree with Harlee. Its just part of the sport. Its not like they wanted it to happen. I mean really pick a worse PR day! Its not like they dragged some old nag out of the field and made her run. The horse had probably been around a track hundreds of times. Sometimes bad things happen. Accidents are accidents. I feel that if i were to jump on any bandwagon folks like PETA would have it so that NONE of us could own horses. Accidents can happen in the nicest of fields. One wrong step in a new gopher hole and boom.. we are in the same position only millions of people are not watching us...


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I know, I am just saying how I don't like the sport, that's all. 
It was a shame that she was so young, though.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Dumas'_Grrrl said:


> Its not like they dragged some old nag out of the field and made her run. The horse had probably been around a track hundreds of times.


That's just the problem. She was 3 and 17hh tall - she shouldn't have been started under saddle at all, and there she was, racing. 
Yes, she was a great horse, and yes it is sad, but MAYBE this will open some eyes to the fact that YEARLINGS are being ridden in order to race as 2 year olds. 
*There are record amounts of breakdowns occurring now.*
If the Derby was aimed at 4 or 5 year olds instead, I would be willing to bet we'd see less breakdowns.
People are breeding for speed now, not durability like in the old days. 
We're humans, we're supposed to serve the best purpose for our animals. They can't say no..


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah...she was really really young, I bet she couldn't handle all that...


----------



## ak_showgirl (Feb 15, 2008)

that is just really sad...i personally don't agree with the way they are racing horses.....and i just dont like the sport because of it... but i do understand what some of you are saying, and thats just the way it is...


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with racing (or other sport) as it is. Wrong is HOW they do it saddle breaking even yearlings sometime for money-money-money. 

BTW, I very much disrespect PETA for what they are doing and talking.


----------



## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

I don't blame breeders for breeding for a specific quality such as speed. If I were big into that kind of stuff I would be mixing lightning with jet speed. If you want a horse to be fast, which they obviously do, why not breed for that specific thing? Why would they need to be durable? If those horses' lives are planned out for them why not breed to fit that lifestyle? Just like halter horse breeders breed for muscle and conformation. Just like hunters breed for length and stride and leg. And so on.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Harlee - I'm just saying that breeders are breeding ONLY for speed, not soundness. They're not taking into account that the horses need to stay sound after their 5th birthday so they don't all get shipped to slaughter, which is what is happening to a LOT of them. Why not breed for speed and soundness?
As for your comment "why do they need to be durable?" - because horses' life expectancy is 20-30 *years* and a lot of the racers out there are chronically lame before they're even half that. This shouldn't be happening.
Breakdowns don't have to happen, at least not as often as they are right now. If trainers took more time to introduce their horses to the track and spent more time on worrying about their overall health rather than "we've gotta run her because this is the Derby, it doesn't matter if she might break down" mentality, then there wouldn't be as many breakdowns.
Once again, we as human athletes can say "no" when a sport becomes too much for us. The horses we use can't - we have to watch their health closely and determine when their bodies are saying "no."
Your argument about the halter horses is a completely different thing - they're breeding HYPP N/H horses which I don't agree with either, but generally they're sound well into their late teens or 20's.
As for hunters... again, they're sound well into their late teens. They are bred to last. Who would want a reputation for breeding hunters that were lame before they turned 10?


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

^I agree, JDI.  
Yeah, half of them don't even make it that old...they get lame. It's really a shame but oh well, that's horse-racing for 'ya.


----------



## crazyhorse_joshmo (Apr 29, 2008)

i love horse racing,,,i mean come on stuff happens and me being a jockey ive learned to get over things like this,,,of course its sad and its a shame it had to happen to her but horse racing is not going to leave the world anytime soon so things like PETA and its followers need to stop hatin,,,

edited:
Inappropriate language-appy


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

crazyhorse_joshmo said:


> i love horse racing,,,i mean come on stuff happens and me being a jockey ive learned to get over things like this,,,of course its sad and its a shame it had to happen to her but horse racing is not going to leave the world anytime soon so things like PETA and its followers need to stop hatin,,,
> 
> edited:
> Inappropriate language-appy


Problem is, stuff _doesn't have to_ happen.. please read over my posts above and hear me out


----------



## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

I hadn't checked on this topic in a while. I agree with both sides, but mostly with JDI and the others. I think that they start those horses WAY WAY too young. I mean, most jumpers don't get backed until they are three and possibly even older. These horses are in full-swing at three. That's way too young; they're babies and they can't handle it. Some of them can, but a lot of them can't. My horse now has mild arthritis in his back because he was ridden before he was ready.


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah...they do start 'em way too young. Which means the horses are more fragile, so more accidents can occur.  They aren't as strong, & can't handle it.


----------



## DGW1949 (Oct 24, 2007)

When someone engauges in a certain behaivior with a horse and finds that it often results in disease, injury or death.....a point is reached wherein the resulting "accidents" are not realy accidents at all. They are merely the results of someone who knew the risk involved but chose to ignore it.

In my book, that is getting real close to outright abuse.

DGW


----------



## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

DGW, you're speaking the truth. Horse racing is animal abuse. You doen't mistreat an animal, who you say you love, and respect, and that has no choice in the matter, the way the horse racing industry does. I can understand the thrill, but the consequences are too great. Humans feel entitled to EVERYTHING.

Riding is about respect, communication, and love.

If the horses wanted to run that fast, they would run on their own, and not be continually whipped. Please, just put yourself in the race horses' horseshoes.


----------



## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

But! Everyone is entitled to their opinion - these are important topics


----------



## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

http://www.chai-online.org/en/compassion/entertainment_racing.htm


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

geewillikers said:


> DGW, you're speaking the truth. Horse racing is animal abuse. You doen't mistreat an animal, who you say you love, and respect, and that has no choice in the matter, the way the horse racing industry does. I can understand the thrill, but the consequences are too great. Humans feel entitled to EVERYTHING.
> 
> Riding is about respect, communication, and love.
> 
> If the horses wanted to run that fast, they would run on their own, and not be continually whipped. Please, just put yourself in the race horses' horseshoes.


I actually like horse racing, and support _responsable_ trainers. It's the trainers that push too far, too much, too hard, that ruin it.


----------



## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> geewillikers said:
> 
> 
> > DGW, you're speaking the truth. Horse racing is animal abuse. You doen't mistreat an animal, who you say you love, and respect, and that has no choice in the matter, the way the horse racing industry does. I can understand the thrill, but the consequences are too great. Humans feel entitled to EVERYTHING.
> ...


I'm just wondering (genuinely)...what makes up a responsible race horse trainer in the industry?


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I know...they really shouldn't work a YOUNG horse so hard like that.  I really feel bad for those horses. Like I said, they're more fragile & cannot handle all that.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

geewillikers said:


> I'm just wondering (genuinely)...what makes up a responsible race horse trainer in the industry?


Honestly? Although some of these are tall orders, I think that a responsable racehorse owner:
- doesn't start the horse before age of 2 (at least. I prefer 3, but all things considered I'll let it be there)
- start the horse to the track slowly
- watch the horse very closely for any signs of stress or pain, and stop training/racing until injuries are healed
- if a horse is injured or showing signs of potential injury, the owner/trainer won't train the horse hard nor race it until it's back to health
- The horse will not be pushed beyond its limits, and the owner/trainer will pay attention to when the horse's body is saying it's done
- Will not race or train a horse in dangerous conditions, and will not use "artificial aids" (such as excessive use of the whip, use of any "zappers" etc)
- Will take responsability for all horses they train and race, and will take the best precautions for each horse to not become lame or have a breakdown. In addition, they will find good homes for the horses after their race careers are over - they will NOT dump them in a low-end sale.

Alright I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the basics.


----------



## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

JDI - Those all sound great, and that would be a great outline for a trainer to follow (I've liked viewing your responses to things- you know what you're talking about) Too bad most racehorses are considered "old" by the time they're four. I guess my point is that those ideal steps aren't taken whatsoever in the racing industry... the racing industry is built on ridiculous expectations of horses...like any multi-BILLION dollar industry - there is major corruption...the racing industry is no exception. People hate greyhound racing- and feel soooo bad for the doggies, but what makes horse racing different? These animals are exploited to the fullest.

I truly have no sympathy for the folks who say they "loved" Barbaro. All they wanted was to save his leg so he could at least mount and make them a buck (or some rockin' foals for that matter :lol: )


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Yeah...  Ah...people will never learn.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

geewillikers said:


> JDI - Those all sound great, and that would be a great outline for a trainer to follow (I've liked viewing your responses to things- you know what you're talking about) Too bad most racehorses are considered "old" by the time they're four. I guess my point is that those ideal steps aren't taken whatsoever in the racing industry... the racing industry is built on ridiculous expectations of horses...like any multi-BILLION dollar industry - there is major corruption...the racing industry is no exception. People hate greyhound racing- and feel soooo bad for the doggies, but what makes horse racing different? These animals are exploited to the fullest.
> 
> I truly have no sympathy for the folks who say they "loved" Barbaro. All they wanted was to save his leg so he could at least mount and make them a buck (or some rockin' foals for that matter :lol: )


Well thank you! I've enjoyed chatting with you, you sure know your stuff as well - it's great having an intelligent conversation rather than an immature "yeah well!" argument 
I agree, the system is corrupted, unfortunately there's money on the line and some people don't care the cost to be "the best." 

There are a few things I want to comment on:

_"Too bad most racehorses are considered "old" by the time they're four"_

Agreed. And actually when I first heard of Standardbred racing, I was shocked to hear of 5 year olds racing.. and that's when I was young. 
It's not right for a horse's career to be over at the "old age" of 5. Let me rephrase that, it's not right for horses to be crippled at the age of 5; breeders and trainers should take better care to keep the horses sound well into their teens. Too many "OTTB" horses are chronically lame before they're 10 - that should be sickening to any horseperson.

_"like any multi-BILLION dollar industry - there is major corruption"_
Yes. Sickening isn't it?

_"People hate greyhound racing- and feel soooo bad for the doggies, but what makes horse racing different?"_
A few factors that I'll list, there are more, but I'll stick to these 3:
1) Dogs are pets, horses are livestock - at least to some (I know my horse is a pet!). More people have everyday interactions with dogs, compared to horses - so when the media exposes dog cruelty, a lot more people are going to be outraged. Not saying that there aren't people outraged by horse racing, but not as many are involved in horses.
2) Horses are viewed as being big and tough, people don't realize they aren't as thick-skinned as, say, cows, and are very responsive.
3) The big money-makers can cover up stories by handing out some cash. All of a sudden Eight Belles broken ankles are a big tragedy, when really chances are it wasn't a freak accident, but really greedy owners/trainers that pushed her too fast when there was a pre-existing condition.


I'm not a bleeding heart that bubble-wraps Maia and keeps her in a padded stall, but I don't push her to her breaking point either. Maybe that's because I view her as a pet, not an avenue to the big bucks.


----------



## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

Yeah, I know animals are viewed differently depending on their audience- ex. dogs vs. horses.... livestock definitely is treated differently - just look at the beef/dairy industry... I just hope that the recent tragic events start opening the public's eyes, changes will happen, and responsible training will occur.

Has anyone seen the article in Time magazine about Eight Belles? My dad in Jers is sending it to me - he, being a non-horse person, found it very interesting. Wondering if any of you read it??


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Eh, I hope so.  
I didn't read that, though. Hmm maybe I can look it up online.


----------



## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

I hate it how people go to great lengths to protect dogs and cats from abuse, but yet, horses aren't as protected. No one would stand for mass amounts of dogs to be killed for meat production. Horses are considered livestock animals, not pets. This is what I think is sick. Horses are pets just as much as dogs are.


----------



## crazyhorse_joshmo (Apr 29, 2008)

um absolutley not, if a law was passed saying horses where pets it would be very bad,,,you really dont want horses to be considered pets,,,and im extremely ever upset horse slaughter has been banned,,,,without the kill market horses are going for 45-250 dollars papers and all nothing wrong with them,,,the horse industry has lost soo much money ever since horse slaughter has been gone,,,i think its stupid ppl think that its inhumane because its not,,,horses are just the same as cows yet we dont make a big deal over them,,,,take this as an example if a horse has a severley broken leg and someone cannot pay for it to be euthanized or treated for by a vet do you think the horse would be better off with the broken leg or would it be better to be taken somewhere and made use of and btw horse slaughter houses do not kill them inhumanely so ppl need to get over themselves,,,stuff happens and it can happens to anyone,,,horse racing is not going anywhere and neither is horse slaughter and they ARE NOT going to be turned into pets

Edit:
inappropriate language-appy


----------



## crazyhorse_joshmo (Apr 29, 2008)

also the ppl hatin on horse racing,,i bet you have never even been to a racetrack and seen what actually goes on there so you need to shutup horse racing is not a bad thing,,,why dont you try putting yourself in the jokeys shoes then tell me what you think,,,,JMO if you have never experienced horse racing (only seen it thru media) then you cant say anything about it and you need to stop,,,the eight belles thing was nobodys fault STUFF HAPPENS wen are ppl going to learn that?! 

Edited by poptartshop & jazzyrider:
inappropriate language


----------



## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

can we please remember the Conscientious Etiquette Policy please guys. if you are new and havent read it yet, please do so before continuing to post.

we all have different views on this particular subject but as usual, some people arent able to voice their opinions in a mature and level headed way. swearing wont be tolerated on the HorseForum. 

for those who are new to the site topics can and will be closed if the quality of conversation goes downhill. this is unfair for those of us who are ready to talk about things in a fair manner. so please, lets get back on track and keep the thread open.

also, although threads can get off track, its best to stick to the subject at hand. changing the subject to express such 'heated' opinions is called hijacking/flaming which is another thing not allowed on the forum.

back to topic please


----------



## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

Although everyone is entitled to their own opinion, i highly disagree with horse racing. Its all about money and not love or respect. A two year old horse should not be running its heart out and risking its life. It should be out in a pasture or starting training. Forums are about posting ur own opinion. You dont have to tell people to shut up to get your point across. We clearly understand what type of person you are from reading that!!


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree. Please keep it nice, guys!!  Everyone is entitled to their opinions.


----------



## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

yup and back on topic please guys 

poptart - you need 'moderator' under your name so peeps know you are a mod now


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

crazyhorse_joshmo said:


> take this as an example if a horse has a severley broken leg and someone cannot pay for it to be euthanized or treated for by a vet do you think the horse would be better off with the broken leg or would it be better to be taken somewhere and made use of and btw horse slaughter houses do not kill them inhumanely so ppl


Of course the best way to deal with the horse with broken leg is to haul her to slaughter standing in trailer for days... 

I'm not against racing if (like JDI said) it's done with some thinking, love and respect to the horses. And I'm not against slaughter if it'd be done in human way (there are LOTS of horses out there noone wants, and some are just in horrible conditions, and something needs to be done anyway). Unfortunately it's not the case (I'd really recommend you to watch the videos on HOW horses killed there. I personally could stand watching only 20 secs or so). 

However I'm strongly against people who use horse up to the last moment, crippled it, and then either try to find "nice free home" (for someone else to take care of vet bills and feed) or send it to the slaughter to make some bucks (and we have it on local forum ALL the time - argh...).


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

crazyhorse_joshmo said:


> also the ppl hatin on horse racing,,i bet you have never even been to a racetrack and seen what actually goes on there so you need to shutup horse racing is not a bad thing,,,why dont you try putting yourself in the jokeys shoes then tell me what you think,,,,JMO if you have never experienced horse racing (only seen it thru media) then you cant say anything about it and you need to stop,,,the eight belles thing was nobodys fault STUFF HAPPENS wen are ppl going to learn that?!
> 
> Edited by poptartshop & jazzyrider:
> inappropriate language


I have been around racetracks. I do my research... please don't tell me I'm making uneducated statements. 
I have seen the good and the bad, and unfortunately the bad outweighs the good. 
*I would have no problem with racing if it was done properly, with the horses' health a priority over money.*
As for your comment about the horses as pets thing ... no, they're not. I don't cuddle my horse on the couch, I make her work harder than my cat, but I treat her well. 
Here's an eye-opening link... 
*WARNING THIS LINK IS NOT FOR ALL VIEWERS - MATURE AUDIENCE RECOMMENDED*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04mvw6tTHrs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSboR03WnjI&feature=related


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree.  
Those videos...*sigh*


----------



## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Don't know how i made it through the first one, but i couldn't bare to watch the 2nd one right now.

It makes me want to outbid a kill buyer at an auction


----------



## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for posting those. *sigh* That sucks...I can't believe we can't figure out something better.


----------



## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

omg...i about to cry. I had a horse that had to be euthanized and everyone said that he went to slaughter. I cant imagine him going through that. I dont know if i will ever know the truth. It kills me. I cant even watch the second one.


----------



## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I know...it's such a shame.  Those poor horses don't even get a chance!


----------



## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

All I'm going to say is thank you JDI! Now that I think my parents are going to be okay with getting me a horse, instead of buying the horse I had in mind, who already has a decent home, I'm going to adopt one. Thank you for making me cry and think about this! ANOTHER THOROUGHBRED SAVED! I am going to talk to my parents about it tonight.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

amightytarzan5 said:


> All I'm going to say is thank you JDI! Now that I think my parents are going to be okay with getting me a horse, instead of buying the horse I had in mind, who already has a decent home, I'm going to adopt one. Thank you for making me cry and think about this! ANOTHER THOROUGHBRED SAVED! I am going to talk to my parents about it tonight.


I am so glad that my link even saved one horse - thank you amightytarzan, you have given me renewed faith in humanity. 

My next horse will be an OTTB. I can't stand the industry sometimes.


----------



## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

yeah, well, now my parents are being stupid.
i'll see how it goes.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

amightytarzan5, it may not be just tb.  All breeds go there and it's just SO sad.

Our local rescue posted the videos of what slaughter house is here in US and in Mexico. It's horrible video in US, but in Mexico...... I just have NO words. Again I could only start, but couldn't stand - felt like I have to throw. What completely killed me off there are those people in mexican slaughter who actually smile and laughed while killing horses and laughed about horses trying to escape the bolt. That's just SO sick...........................


----------



## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

Yeah, that's true kitten_Val. I don't know if my parents would be totally comfortable with me training a ottb anyway. I found one that I really like though! I'm going to put him in the critique forum, so go look at him later. I'm also going to see other rescues and possibly find a large pony that I like.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

My neighbor got free ottb last year. He was just field horse for while (very skinny too), so it's somewhat a project. I think he's coming alone nicely. He has his issues, but overall not spooky and not mean (which is very important, I think). I've meet REALLY nice ottb kid can ride, and some crazy ones. I guess, it depends on luck a lot.  In any case good luck finding your own "perfect horse"!


----------



## amightytarzan5 (Mar 20, 2008)

Yeah, I've looked on some other things and have found a few Arabians that I like and some QHs. I found this really amazing palomino quarter horse pony that I'm in love with. He has the richest color! It's between him and this TB that I found.


----------

