# Starting small cow operation ?'s



## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

Well I am looking at getting a few cows here in the next few months and starting to try and make a few bucks and enjoy doing so. I am looking to find some information on what would be most profitable for me to do on my small operation. The pasture I have set aside for the cows will be about 12 acres and I have the ability to pump the hay to them as well so I am not so concerned with grass being all they will have to eat. I was considering buying weaned calves and raising them to sale weight and then selling or would it be more profitable for me to raise or??? This is where I need some help! Fill me in with the knowledge I need! BTW I am not new to handling cows by no means lol I am just new to being the owner and sole operator of them as in feeding and daily things.


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## Horseluver10 (Jan 15, 2013)

It depends on where you are at and what type of cows you are intrested in. We breed long horns and my grandpa breeds beef the beef animals definatly pack a lot of extra waste but the long horns are really lean. I would start by doing as you said.
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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

Horseluver10 said:


> It depends on where you are at and what type of cows you are intrested in. We breed long horns and my grandpa breeds beef the beef animals definatly pack a lot of extra waste but the long horns are really lean. I would start by doing as you said.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Yeah thats what a few friends of mine have told me as well. Seems like it would be the easiest to start with and I am more than sure it will be a great learning experience too!


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## Horseluver10 (Jan 15, 2013)

O yes! And the market prices are crazy sometimes up sometimes down so really start to pay attention to those things 
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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

You are not going to make money raising cattle with only 12 acres, especially if you are "pumping the hay to them". IMO, I would just get a few beef calves in the spring, raise them over the summer & sell in the Fall before you have to start feeding hay. I would also stick to commercial beef cattle, longhorns ARE lean beef, but they are slower growing and don't sell for nearly as much. Spend some time at your local cattle auction before you do anything.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

^^^ Around here the main reason people start small cow operations is for tax relief. If you have 10+ acres and generate $1000+ of income, you get a tremendous break on your real estate taxes.
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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

PaintHorseMares said:


> ^^^ Around here the main reason people start small cow operations is for tax relief. If you have 10+ acres and generate $1000+ of income, you get a tremendous break on your real estate taxes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, here too. If you have less than 10 acres you have to prove income for three consecutive years before qualifying, I believe.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A farmer friend buys very young calves in the late fall and keeps them inside and on milk replacer. About the time they are big enough to eat grass, the grass is coming in. He then sells in the fall. With 12 acres no more than 3 head


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## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

Saddlebag said:


> A farmer friend buys very young calves in the late fall and keeps them inside and on milk replacer. About the time they are big enough to eat grass, the grass is coming in. He then sells in the fall. With 12 acres no more than 3 head


Milk replacer costs a lot! We had to buy it when our cows dried up and we had younger calves (dairy). My recommendation would be to buy a couple yearlings in the spring, feed them over the summer and sell them in the fall. I would also stay away from the lean breeds. A nice Herford/Angus (either black or red with white/spotted face), puts on meat quite well and the buyers like them at the auction. Like someone else said, just go and sit through a couple of cattle auctions, see what brings the good prices. Up here anything that looks dairy (including long horns), is painted (like a Simmental), or has horns, they won't pay as much as they would for a pure black or red or a brockle face (red or black). They know what breeds put the meat on in the feed lots. The auction mart will actually dock you if you animal has horns. Last time I sold at a auction I think it was around a dollar a horn, but then the buyers see the horns and know it's not Angus and they give you about 2/3 the price of a polled one same size and color. It's crazy, but it's the game.


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## katieandscooby (Feb 14, 2010)

I have been trying to make money on cattle my whole life! Has yet to happen. Anyways 12 acres really isnt much if you want to raise "grassers" 

By this I mean you want to either buy weaners and raise them up till they are big enough like 1200lb yesrlings no? There is no way you will decently finish an animal for market on grass and hay only. No profitable way at least. You need balanced rations and if you want to reduce the risk of bloat on those weaners having a ration with rumensin in is a good idea. Keep this far away from any horses though as it can cause heart failure in them.

Up here right now nobody is buying cattle for grass. There is no money in it at all these past few years. Feedlots are empty because with the price of feed and the price of cattle right now there is no profit either. The way to go at the moment is cow calf and birth to finish. 

Depending what your pasture is like depends how many cows can go there. We have a pasture that is a lot of bush and slough. Three quarter sections - we throw at max 50 pairs. Plus the bull. Very very good quarter sections ( one quarter being 160 acres) of alfalfa brome mix on a five way rotation graze ( 160 acres is split into 5 paddocks or more) can do maybe 40 pairs. At best in a good year. Once it starts to get poorer grazing over the years the number of head it can handle decreases.
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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah I agree everyone, weaned calves then fed to sale weight is my plan. Anyone have more info on what is the best feeds to put weight on over the Summer? Vaccinated? Worming? How often? Fill me in!
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## LisaG (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't know what the market is like in your area. Where I am, grassers are making money (but cattle prices are good in general). You should study the markets in your area, and go from there.

Another idea is to line up some customers that want to buy a half or quarter at a time, buy yearlings in the spring, and sell the meat directly to customers. Some people will pay a premium for grass-fed beef. I'm oversimplifying that scheme, but you get the idea.


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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

LisaG said:


> I don't know what the market is like in your area. Where I am, grassers are making money (but cattle prices are good in general). You should study the markets in your area, and go from there.
> 
> Another idea is to line up some customers that want to buy a half or quarter at a time, buy yearlings in the spring, and sell the meat directly to customers. Some people will pay a premium for grass-fed beef. I'm oversimplifying that scheme, but you get the idea.


Yes I got it  
I will look into that as well
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## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

I personally like grassfed better. Most of our cows at home don't know what grain is. They are on a strict grass (in the summer) and hay (in the 5 or 6 months of winter that we get here) diet. They tend to get fat! If that cow isn't feeding a calf they end up with rolls of fat around the tail head. We also are organic as possible, no dewormers, no delicer, no vaccinations. There is a natural alternative for the common problems... Diatomaceous Earth for lice, basic H for worms... and many other natural remedies. That being said, if we get a sick cow, it gets the veterinary care that it needs. 
Most grass fed grazers use paddock grazing. You rotate the cows every day to a new temporary paddock. It works well for the cows and does wonders for the pasture as well. We have used this technique for around 6 years now. It has improved every pasture we have used it on. It goes well with the planting your land once and that's it. You can improve the land so much that you never need to reseed it. We turned a 20+ year old hay field (that was dying) into a lush thick pasture with a couple years of intensive grazing and one year of bale grazing. Bale grazing is where you set round bales in a grid, pull all the strings off, and, using temporary electric fencing, letting the cows have a couple of bales at a time. There is a lot of 'waste', and the first year it looks like you killed the grass where the bale was sitting, but the second year the growth was incredible! If you do want to try grass fed look up The Stockman GrassFarmer. 
I wish you all the best in what ever direction you go with cows. They can be a lot of fun, even if there is a lot of work and head aches.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I have a friend that bought a few (6) longhorn cows and a bull, thinking she would have a nice tax write off for a few years. They made her money every year.

Next, she thinks buying corrientes will surely lose her some money. Nope. She's been making money off them, too, for 6 or 7 years now.

Such a problem, we should all have! She does have more acreage. What you can do just depends on what you have available.

Good luck!


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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

If you are in a rural area with neighbors that run cattle, talk to your neighbors. I would see if I could buy a few calves from a neighbor at a reasonable price. That way you know what you are getting; sale barn calves are stressed & frequently get sick. Also, you said you want to make money.....the profit margin in cattle is slim in a good year and nonexistent in a bad one. The goal is to put in AS LITTLE money as possible, it help to start with healthy, minimally stressed calves. Preferably vaccinated and castrated prior to purchase. If making money is the goal, I wouldn't bother with cattle. If you like cows & just want a self supporting hobby, go for it.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I have never done anything but lose money trying to grow calves from small to big. The problem is that they gain weight, but they bring so much less per pound when they are heavier that you lose money. I have found that I get more money for a 350 pound calf than I do for a 700 pound calf. 

I would suggest that you buy a few bred heifers and a bull. I think that on 12 acres, I would buy 5 heifers at the most. Sell the calves at weaning. 

You'll make enough money to at least break even and you'll get a tax write-off. You can depreciate your truck, your equipment, save money on property taxes, etc. Get a good tax person to help you out here.

I would suggest black cows that have angus in them. They bring more and it is already hard to break even.

Longhorns are nice on small acreage if you have a death wish. We had some several years ago, and they were very dangerous. They tried to kill us repeatedly.

Likes Bellasmom said, you are probably not going to make much money.


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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

Yeah well I think I am mainly doing it for fun so it will be ok long as its self supporting!
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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Saddlebag said:


> With 12 acres no more than 3 head


Wow. Must be some poor quaility grass with only 3 head on 12 acres.

One of our pastures is under 15 acres. 20 cows with calves. All summer.


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

If you are in an area with hot temperatures, don't get black cows. Red Angus are just as quality as the blacks and much less likely to overheat.
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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

Are you planning on selling them live or sending them out to get slaughtered and selling the beef yourself? In my area there are restrictions on how much you can sell yourself although I would like the idea of slaughtering at least one animal and selling it to friends and family.
I'm not sure about where you are from but in my area grass fed beef is huge! You can make a lot more money that way even though growth is sometimes slowed a bit. Don't try to do it unless you are going to make sure not to overstock your pasture or you have excellent quality hay to supplement with.
If you're planning on getting newly weaned calves they should be given grain for a couple of months... their rumens aren't functioning efficiently enough to digest strictly hay although they would do well on quality grass. It's not like horses either..you want to make sure they have access to feed at all times. The more they eat the faster they grow. 
Vaccinations in your area may be different as well but we vaccinate for respiratory disease and BVD (using Bovishield Gold) pinkeye and rabies. You probably won't need to deworm because they will be slaughtered at a fairly young age and won't have time to develop a large parasite burden. If you notice that they are not gaining you can deworm them... We deworm our dairy cattle once a year with a pour on solution (Eprinex).
As far as breeds I love herefords! I don't have any experience with Angus but I like the idea of them too. Don't fall for getting a beef breed crossed with a dairy breed..it's really not worth it. Dairy cattle are not meant to have a lot of meat on them so a cross is less than ideal although they are cheaper to purchase. Also, it pays to ask the farmer you're buying them from to dehorn and castrate them if you want that done because they are simple procedures for most farmers to do and it will save you quite a bit of money by not having to pay to have a vet do it.
And the best part about having cattle is you get to chase them with your horse  Have fun with your new bovine hobby!


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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

laurapratt01 said:


> Are you planning on selling them live or sending them out to get slaughtered and selling the beef yourself? In my area there are restrictions on how much you can sell yourself although I would like the idea of slaughtering at least one animal and selling it to friends and family.
> I'm not sure about where you are from but in my area grass fed beef is huge! You can make a lot more money that way even though growth is sometimes slowed a bit. Don't try to do it unless you are going to make sure not to overstock your pasture or you have excellent quality hay to supplement with.
> If you're planning on getting newly weaned calves they should be given grain for a couple of months... their rumens aren't functioning efficiently enough to digest strictly hay although they would do well on quality grass. It's not like horses either..you want to make sure they have access to feed at all times. The more they eat the faster they grow.
> Vaccinations in your area may be different as well but we vaccinate for respiratory disease and BVD (using Bovishield Gold) pinkeye and rabies. You probably won't need to deworm because they will be slaughtered at a fairly young age and won't have time to develop a large parasite burden. If you notice that they are not gaining you can deworm them... We deworm our dairy cattle once a year with a pour on solution (Eprinex).
> ...


Excellent information! Thanks so much. I am looking forward to getting them!


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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

Also can I get someone to elaborate on feeding weaned calves?


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I would start with preggers cows or cows with calfs. This way you know the cow can be bred. some cows are not fertile. Also where will you get the Bull when its time to breed ? i think the shorthorn and hereford are pretty cows. Limosine are sposed to be more heart healthy leaner meat . Many people think a beef cow has to be black tehy realte it to Angus. Charlois are pretty cows also. Go to your local auction and see what breed or crosses are selling for the highest dollar before you start your herd. My neighbor did Longhorn and also slaughters them, says they are really tasty.


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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

*Feeding Weaned Calves*

Usually dairy calves are weaned at around 8 weeks old although assuming you are keeping the babies with their moms to nurse out on pasture as most beef producers do it will be very different. If you are buying weaned calves to start it depends on what age and what feeds the farmer has been using. I can tell you what we do with dairy calves that we separate from their mothers immediately...At 8 weeks they should be eating at least 2 lbs of calf starter (specific grain) a day but you want them to have it free choice, always making sure they have access to grain. They will consume more grain as they grow and by 3 months they are likely to eat 4-6 lbs of starter a day. Usually, around 3 1/2 mos we'll start mixing in a heifer grain with the starter until they are only eating the heifer grain. Alot of farmers will not introduce hay into the diet until they are on the heifer grain at around 3 months but we offer them access to good quality hay from the beginning. We like to give them a taste for it and they seem to like to chew on it and it also keeps them from eating their bedding at times.We don't give them alot (maybe a couple of handfuls) while they are still on starter so that they don't fill up on hay (they don't actually have a fully functioning rumen to digest the hay until around 3 months of age so the hay is of very little nutritive value until then.) After 4 month they should be fully digesting and breaking down hay so you can give them it free choice and cut back on grain...although I'd still give them about 4 pounds a day (more if your hay is of poorer quality). I'm sure that it will be different for you with beef breeds and depending on the age that you buy them at but I just wanted to give you an idea.


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