# What are these spots?



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Bird catcher spots. Not related to Appy. And sclera isn't limited to Appy. My frame mare has sclera.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

They look like Birdcatcher Spots, http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/tbcolor3.html


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Birdcatcher spots  Birdcatcher Spots from EQUUS | Equisearch


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Bird catcher spots. Not related to Appy. And sclera isn't limited to Appy. My frame mare has sclera.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm knew white sclera occurred in, for lack of better terms, pinto colors. I only assumed it was caused by something in appaloosas because of the bitty spots. Thank you very much for your response, everyone else, too!

If those are just bird catcher spots, what would the other things be from?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

In Arabs, we call white sclera showing "Human Eye" and it's a HUGE fault. To that end, I'm not big on horses with Human Eye, even when they aren't Arabs. It can happen because of pattern genetics, size of eye to socket, all kinds of things. 

I don't see the white in your either mane, I do see some flaxen or faded chestnut. That can be from sun or genetics. 

Sabino and Splash can all occur and be expressed in varying degrees from WILD patterning to no sign at all. The only way to be totally sure what's going on is to do some genetic testing.


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

In this picture you can see a definitive stripe in her mane. It looks more than fading to me, but I've been wrong plenty of times before. :lol: I could see that 
'human eye' being undesirable, it does look a bit crazy, but I like that wild eye look. EDIT - The picture turned out really small. -.- But if you look closer to the withers there is a stripe of lighter color, up close it is white.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Has she ever been used as a cart horse and worn a collar and harness for any length of time? I have an old mule that has a white spot in his mane in about the same place as hers from years of working in a heavy collar and harness.

I seriously doubt that she's carrying LP (appaloosa gene) as she doesn't appear to have any other appy characteristics like mottled skin or striped hooves. Like others have said, the white spots are called birdcatcher spots and are fairly common among many breeds.


ETA: Here's a decent picture of the white spot in Tiny's mane for you to compare with your mare...


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

They are both thirteen and have been driven as a team for all there life, so the collar thing would make sense. I'll have to look at Chester to see where is mark is. To think, if I would just stop and think about these things I might have been able to figure them out. Thank you.  And they do have striped hooves, but no mottled skin. I didn't get closeups of the hooves, though. The picture is the one on their ad, you can see on Abby's hooves (on right) they are striped.


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## JetdecksComet (Jun 11, 2013)

Lots of non-appy horses also have striped hooves. My chestnut QH gelding has striped hooves and no white on his legs at all.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Appy color/characteristics do not "hide" in Quarterhorses - or any other breed for that matter. They are there or they are not. It is possible, of course, for a genotypic Appy to have the color and/or characteristics so minimally expressed that it may appear to be a phenotypic non-Appy, but that is not something that hides for generations.There are no such thing as Appy "crop-outs". Despite the so-called pedigree, Reminic In Spots has an Appy in the woodpile relatively close up.

Snowflake spots on an Appy are not normally as well defined (smooth edges) as birdcatcher spots...they are normally more irregular in shape and usually have base color hairs mixed in the spot to a degree...


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

I do still have plenty to learn, and thank you all for giving a stab at teaching me. :lol: I only have a minimal understanding of these things, even after years of attempts of learning them. I have a few horses with these characteristics, as well as loud body patterns, so I only assumed that this was something to do with that. 


Here is a snowflake mare that I knew a few years back. She's a POA, Docs Pretty Please. Looking closer I can see the irregularity of the spots.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

When it comes to Appys, we ALL are still learning...never a dull moment...:rofl:


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

Well, thanks everybody for the help. I figure since pictures aren't frowned upon here, I might as well share this one before closing up shop here. We drove them today. It is amazing how when horses are actually trained, they cooperate! :lol: They did very well, but you can tell the mare is a little peppier, but she settles in. If we had two geldings, the team'd probably be considered dead broke. But these two are a lot better than the wild ones we've been trying. Imagine that.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Just a note about sclera. I don't know if this is entirely true, but I've found horses with it typically have spanish ancestry somewhere way back. My mustang filly has it. Mustangs helped form the original Quarter Horses, so some QHs have it, so do appaloosas, paints, and I'm not sure what else.
I've also found that for some reason horses with sclera seem to be more intelligent than the average horse.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, Nokota, the last QH I dealt with that had a white sclera on one side was a raging lunatic that never did really calm down, but she may have just been a weirdo as her particular lines aren't exactly well known for being mellow.

BITD, they are a very nice looking pair and the collar would certainly explain the white in her mane. My black Perch has a bit of white showing up in his but I can never get a good enough picture to really see it.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Just a note about sclera. I don't know if this is entirely true, but I've found horses with it typically have spanish ancestry somewhere way back. My mustang filly has it. Mustangs helped form the original Quarter Horses, so some QHs have it, so do appaloosas, paints, and I'm not sure what else.
> I've also found that for some reason horses with sclera seem to be more intelligent than the average horse.


I have seen it most often in Arabs and Welshes, and occasionally in Shetties (real Shetlands, not the lighter American version). Not sure how much Spanish blood you will find in any of those breeds...


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Regarding the white sclera, the purebred Andalusian I almost bought a while back had it, so you may be on to something with the Spanish ancestry, Nokota. 

I didn't like it because it reminded me of the TBxHanoverian I had just leased- you couldn't see the whites of his eyes unless he was in a crazy mood and boy could he buck when he got into the mood for it  FWIW, the Andalusian went back because she was also crazy (or at the very least just poorly handled... I don't know that I had her long enough to say that she couldn't have been brought around with some training...)


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