# Our new horse! - Black Andalusian Colt - Tigre



## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)




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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)




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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

W
O
W

That's all I have to say about this guy. Stunning. His head and neck... drool.


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## Heatherloveslottie (Apr 12, 2010)

Oh my gosh, he's absolutely beautiful.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

CONGRATS!!! As all of your horses, he is gorgeous! Looking forward to hearing about, and seeing more pictures of him!!!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Enjoyed all the pictures. Gorgeous.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

He's lovely, congrats!


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Just read the Wiki on Andalusia, they mention horns and warts under the tail, from the pics it looks like he has the horns they describe at the temples, does he have the warts? Really cool horse.


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

He's a beauty, Congrats!


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Sexy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

He's gorgeous!! Congrats! :smile:


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## JessieleeZ (Apr 24, 2011)

wow! : jealous :


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I keep thinking he'd be awesome to paint!


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## Surprise 623 (Jun 17, 2010)

Courtney said:


> W
> O
> W
> 
> That's all I have to say about this guy. Stunning. His head and neck... drool.


ditto wow


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

Thankyou very much everyone! And Joe42, no he doesn't. He scratched his tail at the top, so he's gonna have to be rugged as he's a bit itchy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

W.O.W. 

Stunning man. Congrats!


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

He's lovely, but was he actually tested for dun? A black horse with the dun gene would be grulla. Neither this colt or his sire are anything close to grulla.


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

Thanks, and yes he was colour tested.

I'll ask her again anyway. She sent us an e-mail, and she's been doing colour genetics for years, so it's interesting.

Here are some baby photos of him.


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

He carries the DUN gene, which means he can produce Grulla when put to the right mare. 

The woman has an honors degree in colour genetics, and so she's pretty much done all her horses, as I've said. And she's been right in it so far O.O

Anyway, he's doing really well and he's out in the field, happy as larry, haha. I don't know when I will get more photos of him, I seem to have lost my charger for my camera :/ And the battery is already on low, meh O.O


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Tres jolie!!


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

Thankyou 

We put him out in the opposite field to Luca and Willow earlier and they were like mirrors! Haha, walking up and down the fenceline with eachother and trotting around, then they all grazed. 

He's such a sweet boy, and he's a really quick learner. I am so pleased with him <3

I thought I'd do a little photo edit. I'm re-doing my website in bits, so this will be put up on there aswell.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

If you don't mind me asking, where was the color testing done? He looks nothing like a grulla. There is some minor leg barring in his foal picture, but it's very common to have primitive type markings on foals because it acts as camouflage.


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

I didn't say he is GRULLA.

He is a 100% Black. But he can pass on one dun gene to an offspring when put to the RIGHT mare.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

A black horse with the dun gene is a grulla. He _has_ to be. He cannot pass on the dun gene if he's not a grulla. I'm not sure what the mare has to do with it because if he were to have the dun gene, he would have a 50% chance of passing it on regardless of what the mare looked like.


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

I'm not going to explain anymore :/


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

I meant to put, he won't actually throw a dun, he will throw Grulla. He just carries the dun gene from his father.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I did not know that they offered honors degrees in color genetics. What university was this from?

The only way that colt will produce dun is when bred to a dun mare....just like every other colt out there. He himself does not carry the dun gene. Dun is dominant, meaning that if he had it, you'd see it. And on a black base coat, dun expresses itself as grullo (or regular dun on bay, or dunalino on palomino, or red dun on chestnut, and so on and so forth).


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

Well, obviously you're the expert, so we'll just leave it there.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Well there's no point in advertising that he can throw dun babies when he can't.


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

I will say one last thing, and then I'm done.

He CARRIES the dun gene. It's there --> aa EE gg Dd cc pp

He will throw a GRULLA. Not a dun!

A Grulla horse is a Black horse (*aa E_) *which has its body colour diluted by the Dun gene. 

That's all I have to say, if it bothers you so much, then just leave my topic alone instead of coming back insisting I'm wrong, when clearly both parents have been tested, and Tigre himself. It's not like you're going to be using him to breed from, so why keep on insisting :/ 

-------------------

Tigre has settled in well now, and I couldn't be more happier with him <3


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Grulla (or grullo if it's male) is a _form_ of dun - all Grullas are duns, but not all duns are grullas. Grulla is dun on a black base coat, red dun is dun on a chestnut coat, and "classic" dun or bay dun is of course, dun on a bay coat.

I'm pretty sure Bubba is right in that if the horse carries the dun gene at all, it will show. I don't see dun in your boy, rather fading black, but he is lovely nonetheless


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

TralissaAndalusians said:


> I will say one last thing, and then I'm done.
> 
> He CARRIES the dun gene. It's there --> aa EE gg Dd cc pp


You realize that there is no definitive test for dun, right?

Horse Dun Zygosity

It's a "best guess" or crapshoot even in the best scenarios. And if he CARRIED the dun gene, he would show it, no ifs, ands, or buts. Same with his sire.



> He will throw a GRULLA. Not a dun!


Yes, if bred to a dun mare, he could produce a grulla, potentially. Or a regular dun, potentially. But it wouldn't be coming from him.



> A Grulla horse is a Black horse (*aa E_) *which has its body colour diluted by the Dun gene.


And there's no dilution going on here.



> That's all I have to say, if it bothers you so much, then just leave my topic alone instead of coming back insisting I'm wrong, when clearly both parents have been tested, and Tigre himself. It's not like you're going to be using him to breed from, so why keep on insisting :/


Because you keep insisting on misinformation. Though I would still love to hear what college your friend got her degree in color genetics from.


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## chaska (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm sorry but you are wrong. A horse that is EE is 100% black but as he carries the Dd gene it does not necessarily mean he will display dun markings. Perhaps if you could read properly and take the time to read the articles on colour genetics you would see that. I know the owner of Jardinero x and he was included in the UC Davis research program on duns. I think you are being totally immature and childish in your comments. You are obviously someone who always thinks they are right but do not have the grace to admit you are WRONG. Perhaps you should use your energy to apply your opinions to some other topics and leave this one well alone. Once again to reiterate the horse is 100 % BLACK, he does not have to display the usual dun markings as he is only carrying the Dd gene. This he can pass on to his offspring therefore they can be Grulla. Please get your facts straight before commenting on this subject as it is very tiresome having to correct the misinformation that some people are very quick to refer too. May I also remind you that Jardinero x was included in the UC Davis research dun program so does that mean you are more qualified than them? I think not.


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

Who is wrong?? 
All this talk of ee Ee Dd blah blah has confused me....all it makes me think of is cup sizes lol. Can he throw a dun/grulla foal on a non grulla/dun mare since he carries the gene?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Chaska is saying that Bubba is wrong.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Perhaps you can provide some of these articles? Particularily anything involving Jardinero X and the UC Davis research program. I'm interested in reading about how a dominant gene like dun which is known to appear visibly in the horse regardless of it being homozygous or heterozygous, may choose to "hide" in a horse just because it's homozygous black? Honestly, I'm curious.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

chaska said:


> I'm sorry but you are wrong. A horse that is EE is 100% black but as he carries the Dd gene it does not necessarily mean he will display dun markings.


Really. So he's the first and only. Really impressive.



> Perhaps if you could read properly and take the time to read the articles on colour genetics you would see that.


I have, and I don't see that. Because, um, the articles and research papers don't state that.



> I know the owner of Jardinero x


What a coincidence!



> and he was included in the UC Davis research program on duns.


That's odd. I wonder why they don't mention that on their website, seeing as how they require photographs of the horse in question during testing to verify or refute its possession of the dun gene. I mean, if horses could be dun but not look dun, then a photo would be totally worthless. I think you should call the university and complain.



> I think you are being totally immature and childish in your comments.


So, are you Tralissa with a new account (or just her twin, since you type a lot like her), or her friend with the honors degree in color genetics, or just someone who happened to stumble across this forum for the very first time today, notice this post, and happen to mysteriously know all the back story?



> You are obviously someone who always thinks they are right but do not have the grace to admit you are WRONG.


*cough*



> Perhaps you should use your energy to apply your opinions to some other topics


Oh, I get around!



> and leave this one well alone.


Why? Isn't it fun to prove me wrong while I wallow in my eternal ignorance?



> Once again to reiterate the horse is 100 % BLACK,


Yes he is!



> he does not have to display the usual dun markings as he is only carrying the Dd gene.


And apparently he is the first and only horse in the world (well, except for his sire) to have a mysterious recessive dun gene. He just disproved color genetics! Did you write your thesis on him?



> This he can pass on to his offspring therefore they can be Grulla.


Again, breed him to a dun or grulla mare, and you're right, he could have grulla or dun foals. But not otherwise.



> Please get your facts straight before commenting on this subject as it is very tiresome having to correct the misinformation that some people are very quick to refer too.


Ditto.



> May I also remind you that Jardinero x was included in the UC Davis research dun program so does that mean you are more qualified than them? I think not.


Apparently they are not qualified at all, as the information on their website totally disagrees with what you're saying:

Dun Zygosity Test
*Dun is a dominant gene that dilutes the color of body hair, leaving the points and head unaffected. Dun horses also show "primitive markings" consisting of a dark dorsal stripe, leg barring, shoulder stripes and concentric marks on the forehead (spiderwebbing, cobwebbing). The dorsal stripe appears to be a consistent feature of dun horses while the other "primitive marks" vary and may not all be present, or visible.* The effect of the Dun gene on the base colors of chestnut, bay and black produces horses with shades that range from apricot, golden, dark gray, olive, and many, more subtle, variations. Dun is inherited independently of other coat color genes and can occur in combination with any other genes that modify the base colors. Dun dilution is present in many breeds of horses including Quarter Horses, Paints, Appaloosas, Icelandic Horses, Norwegian Fjords, Paso Finos, Peruvian Pasos and several of the pony breeds. The names assigned to the various Dun colors vary by breed. For additional information on Dun, D. Phillip Sponenberg's Equine Color Genetics has descriptions, names and photos for these colors.
SUBMISSION FORM - Allow 5-10 business days for test results. 
Dun Zygosity Testing 
*The specific mutation that causes Dun has not yet been identified, and there is no direct test for the gene. *VGL has identified DNA markers associated with Dun that can be used to determine if a horse has the Dun gene and how many copies. *The Dun Zygosity analysis is not a direct DNA test, so the following additional materials should be included to provide the most complete analysis:*

Materials
*Photos of the subject horse*
A hair sample pulled from the mane or tail of one or both parents of the subject horse
Three generation pedigree of the subject horse 
*If a sample from a parent is not provided, the analysis may not be conclusive for the presence/absence of the Dun gene.*


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## chaska (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh dear, you are still missing the point. He is BLACK not DUN nor GRULLO. But I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you. You obviously like to be right all the time, so please yourself. Your ignorance shows through, you really need to read up more on the subject to comment, so if you don't mind, please don't make any further comments to my friend on this subject, as she doesn't deserve to be harassed by you. You can believe what you want, I think reading your posts will let other people see you obviously like to make yourself out to be some sort of expert which you are clearly not, and you most definitely don't like to be wrong. I can't understand why you're making such a big deal out of this, surely you have better things to do. I know I have, and I'm sure Melissa does too. She has a fabulous colt who I'm sure will grow into something very special. And having seen his half brother by the same sire, Jardinero X, he is going to be stunning.


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## chaska (Sep 25, 2011)

Katze said:


> Who is wrong??
> All this talk of ee Ee Dd blah blah has confused me....all it makes me think of is cup sizes lol. Can he throw a dun/grulla foal on a non grulla/dun mare since he carries the gene?


yes he is capable of producing if put to a bay mare ,

37.50% bay Dun So the possibility is there!
37.50% bay
12.50% grullo
12.50% black


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

> And apparently he is the first and only horse in the world (well, except for his sire) to have a mysterious recessive dun gene. He just disproved color genetics! Did you write your thesis on him?


I never said anything of the like. And there's no need to be snarky either.

I'd like to move on. If you're mature, then you'd just drop the whole matter because it's wasting my time, and your time.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Geez you guys, why the hostility? What you're suggesting goes against anything I for one have learned about genetics, if these andalusians are as unique as you are inferring then why not explain how it works and provide sources? Chaska in particular if you have a degree in colour genetics I would assume you are familiar with that procedure and would be happy to share your knowledge rather than cut these folks down for questioning a contraversial topic?


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## Tayz (Jan 24, 2009)

Wow, this was an enjoyable thread to look at all the photos...until everyone started fighting. To me genes dont matter. It's the horse that really matters, doesnt it? 

Gorgeous horse, your gonna have a nice stallion on your hands 

edit- btw it was quite immature to make another account just to get up her...one account is enough to spread your opinion/point...


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

Thank you very much Tayz.

I didn't ask for my thread to be hijacked. If they want to discuss genetics, do it somewhere else or not at all. I want my thread to be kept as a picture topic, and if it carries on being hijacked, I will request to have it locked. 

And I don't recall Chaska saying they have a degree in colour genetics at all. 

I like it to just be left alone. Just grit you're teeth and leave it.

You're just nit-picking now.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

> The woman has an honors degree in colour genetics, and so she's pretty much done all her horses, as I've said. And she's been right in it so far O.O


Perhaps I'm wrong, but were you not referring to the owner of the colt's sire? AKA Chaska? I guess I'll have to sit and grit my teeth instead of learn something new though.


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

It's not the previous owner of Tigre that is posting, nor the owner of the sire, Chaska is a friend of mine who happens to have been lurking around for a while, but actually knows alot more than I do as she is good friends with the breeder.

You seem to be confused.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Who's the friend with the degree, then? Why don't you ask her to come over here and explain?


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## TralissaAndalusians (Sep 7, 2007)

I don't have to. I can't make her come here.

And she wouldn't. She's far to busy to be wasting her time on here trying to explain. That information is direct from her, and I'll leave it at that.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Apparently I was confused. By her insistence concerning his colour genes I had the impression she was the one with the degree, but it seems I was wrong. I don't know why you would go on about his "hidden" dun gene if you can't even explain it, since I can't find any information about it I hope you won't blame me for writing it off as misinformation and going with what I know :?. Colour genetics aside, your horse is very pretty and shiney :-o


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