# Horse fence post help!



## bigeclipse (Jun 6, 2019)

All,
My wife and I are settled on doing bipolar horseguard for our fencing. So here is the issue, we live in NY and we have heard that fence posts should be like 3+feet deep if you are using 8ft long posts (so 3ft below ground and 5 ft above ground). The issue is our pasture is basically on a rock ledge. The ledge is as shallow as 2ft in some areas. Some areas we can get very deep like 5ft. We have contacted all fencing companies and many of them state they can drill into ledges but really have no interest in doing a "lot" of drilling so if it ended up there were many posts needing drilling they would simply pack up and leave. We do have our own fence post drill so im thinking since we aren't doing hitensil wire or wood, that the stress on the posts shouldn't be much and that posts at 2ft should be ok for awhile. The frost will likely heave and end up creating some leaning posts but does this happen quickly or does it take a few years? I don't mind having to occasionally re-do or re-set some posts if I must but I also don't want to do all this work only to have half the posts leaning after one year. We are doing 16ft spacing of the posts around 2 acres. This adds aup to about 85 posts (not including H-bracing areas where we will do 8ft spacing for gates and corners). This would increase the post totals to about 95-100 posts. So what do you think we should do? My wife desperately wants a horse. She grew up riding at her parents. Should we just set all the posts ourselves and in the areas that are only 2ft or so deep, just accept that the posts may start leaning, and in all other areas try for the full 3ft depth? Any other ideas? Thanks!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Concrete them in to hopefully avoid frost heave...but there is risk at shallow depth.

16' apart is pretty far when it comes to horses as they _*are*_ going to test the fence integrity and strength, be forewarned.
8' is optimum..
10 ' next, then 12'...
16' apart makes me nervous and think not strong enough when only sunk 2' deep...
With shallow depth buried, if it were my fence it would be hot...
The horse{s} would learn on first encounter not to touch it again so no testing of the posts and strung fence matter is tried...and keep that fence hot or they will test, push and break out.
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Welcome to the Forum! 

I am just a little bit confused about your descriptions/questions/situation...keeping in mind I am not anywhere near your area, but just need a little clarification please. 

First, when you say a 2' thick ledge, do you mean there is nothing (no ground/surface) below the rock? Cause there is no way I'd be drilling into a ledge cantilevered over nothing :eek_color:

The other issue is 16 foot spacing is way too far for any kind of fencing. Typically 7-8 foot spacing so you would have to have some sort of support between your posts. 

Secondly, if your land is all rock, can it grow enough grass to support a horse? 

I think it is wonderful that your wife wants a horse and that y'all are willing to put the time and labor into setting up a nice area to keep one, but there is a big learning curve when it comes to horse ownership/land management that many folks get discouraged. 

Are y'all near a place where she could lake lessons or lease a horse, or even work/volunteer part time at a stable to learn first hand about horse ownership and care? 

Might save you both some heartache and $$ to get a little first-hand experience as an adult first before investing in property improvements and a horse purchase.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

I live in the land of the frozen tundra. We have post wooden ones that have been in the ground...for over 10 years still straight as the day set in ground. No cement used when set in ground 3 feet deep. 

Our post are 10 feet apart corners are braced. Gate post are big sturdy wooden post. Post between gates are 8 feet apart. All gate openings are 8 feet to allow machinery to access corrals. We have two 6 foot wide gate openings. They aren't quite big enough for a backhoe to go through. We are putting in 8 foot gates this summer.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I would put your posts closer together. Maybe have them drill deep enough for your corner posts and H braces. If the fence company doesn't want to do that you can use a dead man on your corners.


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## bigeclipse (Jun 6, 2019)

AnitaAnne said:


> Welcome to the Forum!
> 
> I am just a little bit confused about your descriptions/questions/situation...keeping in mind I am not anywhere near your area, but just need a little clarification please.
> 
> ...


I think I confused everyone here. I meant in some areas we can only dig into the ground 2ft until we hit bedrock so the post would only be buried 2ft deep. Our pasture was previously a cow pasture and has been growing nice pasture grasses for the past two years and can definitely support horses. The fence company does not want to drill a lot of posts into bedrock if there are a lot and they don’t want to try. Horse guard says 16ft spacing with their electric fence is fine as long as we don’t have wind which we don’t. We can go to 8ft if it helps.


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## Yesterday (Jul 28, 2018)

Just came back in from doing a fence...


You don't mention the diameter of the posts you are wanting to use. At 16ft apart they better be some decent diameter ones, and at 16ft apart you can't afford any of them not being perfectly set.





If you have a post-hole-digger and tractor you can drill your own holes using a PENGO rock drill: https://www.pengoattachments.com/products/srr-rock-ripper


Also, beware when buying posts that not all are treated the same; some cheaper posts will still rot in the ground because of poor treatment.


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## bigeclipse (Jun 6, 2019)

Yesterday said:


> Just came back in from doing a fence...
> 
> 
> You don't mention the diameter of the posts you are wanting to use. At 16ft apart they better be some decent diameter ones, and at 16ft apart you can't afford any of them not being perfectly set.
> ...


 We were planning on using 5inch posts. Again, we got this information from horseguard fencing which is a pretty reputable company or so im told. Horseguard is not hitensil so does not put a lot of stress on the posts (you pull it hand tight). I will 100% look into that rock drill as we do have a posthole digger which is why I know in some areas we hit bedrock at 2ft deep.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

We have very rocky soil, and in some cases we were only able to put our posts in 2 ft deep. Some are spaced pretty far apart too (20+ feet). The fences have been up for 3 years now, and we've been bracing corners as needed. Most corners are now braced, but not all. There has been some shifting (I live in Eastern Canada where the ground freezes hard and heaves), but nothing too serious. Since I have 3 hot wires on my fences, the horses don't push on the posts. It works for us, but requires annual maintenance and a little work. In your situation, I don't know if it would work as well because there is so little soil above the rock to hold everything together. You'd have to be willing to put in some repair work to keep it safe, but if you don't mind that, it can be done. I'd probably go ahead and brace all corners, and maybe every 2-3 posts, and would consider concrete around them to hold them in. The downside of concrete is that if you ever have to move it, it's a pain. But compared to drilling into rock, it would likely be a better option.

Editing to add: sorry - I just realized you're using tape, not electrobraid. You may indeed have to place your posts closer together in that case. I use electrobraid, and have no problem placing them much further apart. There is sagging by spring, but I go around and tighten everything before letting the horses out and it's fine. Tape is a little different, however.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Is this the company?
_https://www.horseguardfence.com/_

First thing I noticed when I opened that page...
The fence posts _*are not*_ 16' apart...
Because they say it can does not make it best for your application.
Think about what their own opening cover page shows... :|

That fence _*is*_ also going to sag and stretch from weight of it and from sun exposure, means a very easy out at that length between supports...
The fence might be fine but please,_ please_ put your support posts closer together so wind or not, that fence _shall_ wiggle and move in a breeze forget a storm wind occurring.
Watched many string electric tape fencing posts to far apart against advice of others to see the owner only have to do it again and add more posts after the fact at more expense and loose horses happening...
I learned by watching the pitfalls others made. :frown_color:

:runninghorse2:...


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## bigeclipse (Jun 6, 2019)

Yesterday said:


> Just came back in from doing a fence...
> 
> 
> You don't mention the diameter of the posts you are wanting to use. At 16ft apart they better be some decent diameter ones, and at 16ft apart you can't afford any of them not being perfectly set.
> ...





horselovinguy said:


> Is this the company?
> _https://www.horseguardfence.com/_
> 
> First thing I noticed when I opened that page...
> ...


 As an FYI I have joined a horseguard group so it is user testimony not the company. This stuff is not the "typical" fence tape. Users who go with 16ft spacing report they need to re-tension some strands at most once a year. We have zero wind in our back yard due to we live on a mountain side. Even in 60mph wind storms our yard sees maybe 5-10mph. This is not string or electric tape. It is super popular over in Europe and comes highly reguarded. anyways, the whole reason we were going with 16ft spacing is that IF it did not support well, we could then next year go and split the difference and do 8ft spacing (this is also the reason we want to put it in now so that way we can have it up for a good 8 months prior to putting a horse in the pasture). This fence can also run very hot so the horse might touch it once but they wont touch it again (or so we have been told). All of that being said, I am definitely going to check out that rock drill but not sure how well it will work on a 3pt hitch posthole digger since there is very little downward pressure.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Thanks for the clarification! Two feet should be ok for inline posts, but would want the corner posts big, deep and braced. 

You can use t-posts inline for closer spacing, they are much cheaper and quicker install also. 


Most put in wood posts every forth post, with corners having three posts close together and braced together. 


You would be amazed how easily fence posts move just because they can :wink: 


Really good to hear you are not planning to graze a horse on a 2 foot thick rock shelf cantilevered off into the air :rofl:


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## bigeclipse (Jun 6, 2019)

AnitaAnne said:


> Thanks for the clarification! Two feet should be ok for inline posts, but would want the corner posts big, deep and braced.
> 
> You can use t-posts inline for closer spacing, they are much cheaper and quicker install also.
> 
> ...


 hmm so now I am concerned because the one area we are sure we can only go 2ft deep is a corner as that is a hole we drilled this past weekend. Any suggestions on how we could further brace that one corner to make it nice and sturdy? Maybe we will do a jack/buck type fence there...


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

bigeclipse said:


> hmm so now I am concerned because the one area we are sure we can only go 2ft deep is a corner as that is a hole we drilled this past weekend. Any suggestions on how we could further brace that one corner to make it nice and sturdy? Maybe we will do a jack/buck type fence there...



H brace or N brace all your corners/bends: 

https://www.progressivecattle.com/t...t/4-steps-to-construct-a-long-lasting-h-brace

http://www.angusjournal.com/articlepdf/fencing pt2 02.10.pdf


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

The soil here is clay, posts don't move when its dry, but when it is wet it is super easy to pull out/put in posts. 

We use a combination H and N corner bracing, or guide wires to something sturdy like a nearby tree. 

The other option is to not make a real corner in that shallow spot. Instead make it like the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle. Corners are not really good for horses anyway, as have seen horses get trapped in a corner by other horses and no way out except thru the fence.


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## bigeclipse (Jun 6, 2019)

AnitaAnne said:


> The soil here is clay, posts don't move when its dry, but when it is wet it is super easy to pull out/put in posts.
> 
> We use a combination H and N corner bracing, or guide wires to something sturdy like a nearby tree.
> 
> The other option is to not make a real corner in that shallow spot. Instead make it like the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle. Corners are not really good for horses anyway, as have seen horses get trapped in a corner by other horses and no way out except thru the fence.


that's a good point but we are only going to have one horse with maybe some sort of companion animal but I guess that companion animal could get trapped as well.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

bigeclipse said:


> hmm so now I am concerned because the one area we are sure we can only go 2ft deep is a corner as that is a hole we drilled this past weekend. Any suggestions on how we could further brace that one corner to make it nice and sturdy? Maybe we will do a jack/buck type fence there...


Along with your corner braces use a dead man and a rock jack.


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## Yesterday (Jul 28, 2018)

bigeclipse said:


> All of that being said, I am definitely going to check out that rock drill but not sure how well it will work on a 3pt hitch posthole digger since there is very little downward pressure.



For sure. 

Would be a shame to invest in such an expensive piece of equipment, only to find the equipment driving it isn't strong/tough enough.
Drilling into rock is NOT easy.....probably why all the fencing people aren't that keen on tackling your job! :frown_color:


Have you considered just a temporary fence to start with? Might give you a good enough solution for a couple of years while you tackle the permanent solution.


Putting up a 'permanent' fence in unfavorable soil is a really tough job. Hard on body, mind and equipment.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

bigeclipse said:


> that's a good point but we are only going to have one horse with maybe some sort of companion animal but I guess that companion animal could get trapped as well.


Very common to_ plan_ to only have one horse...not too many people stick to that plan however! 

Personally I have never heard a horse owner say that they have too much room, but lots of them don't have enough...

Always plan for expansion; more horse, more hay storage, etc. Horses seem to acquire a lot of stuff :wink:


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

If you can afford it, pipe panels would eliminate the need to set many posts. For permanent fencing, you'd only need to put a post at the corners and occasionally down the line if you wanted to keep them perfectly straight, and metal t-posts wired to the outside of the panels at an intersection work fine for that. While certainly not cheap, panels are easily rearranged, resold, or repurposed for pens, riding areas, etc. if you do put in permanent fencing at some point. For a small area like yours, it is also surprising how many times one decides (after the fact, usually) that you wish you'd moved that fenceline over 10 feet, or gone around this tree or put the gate over there instead. Panels allow you to make those choices and rearrange easily as your needs change. For instance, if you decide to build or add a shed or feed building, get another horse, etc.

If only part of your pasture is problematic in terms of rock, panels could also be used along one side of the pasture and permanent fencing with posts for the rest, eliminating the post digging/frost heave/concrete setting battle while still saving costs on the easier-to-get-posts-in areas of your land.


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

i live in upstate NY off the tug hill. our posts are a mix of metal T-posts and rough cedar posts probably set 30' apart if not more, 2' deep never had an issue with frost heaves moving them an inch. 

set the corner posts as best you can and you should be fine, ours is just 2 strands of wire so you might need to go closer because of the wide horseguard stuff but I don't expect a need to go crazy with drilling in posts just sounds like extra money without a lot to gain


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