# Advice on weaning babies



## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

Hi guys! 
I have two rescue mares as most of you know with babies by their sides. Both mares are not in great body condition so I would like to wean the babies as soon as possible. Varsha will be 3 months old shortly and Wisdom (Suede) is a bit older than her. I need advice on how to best wean them in the situation I am in. Both are halter broke pretty well already and eating good now but still nursing. Both moms are already kicking at them a bit and pushing them away. Varsha is not too attached but Wisdom sticks to his mom like glue. 

We have 3 box stalls and a paddock so I have to come up with some way to wean them and have only once weaned a baby and then I took mom to a different property but that is not an option here....

Ideas?


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## Kay Armstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

EEEkkk....not sure I would be so anxious to wean so early.....


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

3 months is way too early to wean. I know your mares are under weight and feeding the foals pulls them down a bit. But keep pouring the feed to the mares. The foals are not mature enough physically or mentally to be weaned right now.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Put mum in a box stall(or vice versa) where they can see eachother until they're calmed down. I know people who have cold turkey weaned, or gradually weaned babies and everyone turned out okay. I prefer gradually weaning but my guy was cold turkeyed with with no ill effects. 
It's a hard situation you're in. Yellowbush appaloosas is a page on Facebook and they just posted a great thing about how they wean. I'll find it.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

They wean at three months and have produced some exceptional animals. Here's the post copied. 

Well, so it begins... Scamp has entered into the weaning process. He is taking it pretty well and so is his momma. The first week he will be able to stand next to his dam and pasture mates. The second week he will be able to see them but not able to nose one another. The third week his dam will be moved out of sight until he is fully weaned. I am sure tonight will be a long one but he is on his way to being a big boy now. He has been eating in his own stall during feeding and is easy to catch, lead, and tie already. #iweanat3months #traingingstartsthedayofbirth #noexcuses


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

Here is their response when asked why so young: 
We have found the foals simply grow off better. The mother's milk is dropping off by 3 months. The foals get more nutrients by focusing on grass and feed over filling with weak milk plus the others. We haven't found it to be too stressful on the dam or foal but instead the dam tends to be at ease with it and the foals just gravitate towards becoming even closer with us. We start halter training the first day after they are born so our foals are completely comfortable with us already and see us as their safety net so to speak. The only stress is not having milk to turn to that is simply there to comfort him rather than nourish. During his 3rd or 4th week will put him in with a buddy he knows so that he isn't totally isolated from other horses. I haven't found waiting any longer to be necessary.
I've found just like halter training and desensitizing, it is easier and works best to wean at a young age. I haven't found any benefits with my foals to leave them relying on their dams for longer than necessary. The foals I turn out are healthy, very people oriented, and easy to train. I believe as a breeder that it is my responsibility to provide the best opportunities for the horses I produce. When I sell a foal I can guarantee the horse to be a willing and capable companion, partner, and competitor. There is no excuse to sell anything less. I am aware many breeders don't feel it is necessary or their job to put forth that effort but it is my belief that if I am going to breed these horses that I make sure to put the ground work and energy into making sure they will have steady and safe home. As a small breeding operation I am fortunate to have the time and energy to place on them that they deserve.


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

I know it is early but many have told me to wean them to help the mothers to recover better. What about gradually weaning them by separating for a few hours each day and then letting back in with the moms? They are all going to be on same property and all going to live together for quite some time but both moms are having a very tough time of it and neither is going to recover form their previous neglect until the babies are weaned. What age does everyone wean? Remember I have had one baby who we weaned at 6 or 7 months and that is it so not really any experience at this. Literally had a vet here yesterday (happened to be one on the island) and she said "wean these babies as quickly as you can for the mares health". Not the first time I have been told that.....

Jara the bay mother is not gaining weight and has very bad skin and is in general about a 3 on a body condition score of 1-10, Charity is losing weight despite massive amounts of feed and she is a 2.5. I am feeding the best that I can on the island and would like to give them free choice grass/hay but I cannot source it so as it is each mare eats about 10 pounds of rice bran, 3 to 4 pounds of pellets plus 5 or 6 "flakes" of hay per day. The babies are of course sharing this food and both babies are in good body condition and healthy. 

I don't want to wean this early but maybe should start preparing?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If your vet has told you to wean, then I would do it. Since you can't really get them 'out of sight' out of mind, you're going to have a harder time of it. Can you divide the paddock so that the babies can be separated from the mares? If you can then I'd start by dividing the paddock and put mares in one side babies in the other and then take the babies into stalls at night and put them out on paddock during the day. This gets them handled by humans daily, used to a different routine, and starting to get used to the idea that they can eat, play and sleep away from the mares. The first several days of weaning, I'd put the 2 foals in 1 stall (so they don't feel totally abandoned) and feed them in there. They may or may not do well together in a stall, you'll have to watch. If one picks on the other, then you'll need to put each in their own stall. Give the mares 30 days to dry up and when you turn the foals back out with them, then they probably won't let them nurse. Can you have the colt gelded before you wean him? That way you don't get any "OOOPS" babies because he decided to be precocious at 6 months.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I think it's a little early to wean under normal circumstances, but if the vet thinks that this is better then do it. No one is looking at the situation like you are. 

Dreamcatcher has some good ideas


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

LoriF said:


> I think it's a little early to wean under normal circumstances, but if the vet thinks that this is better then do it. No one is looking at the situation like you are.
> 
> Dreamcatcher has some good ideas


I agree, if the mares were in good condition or gaining condition, I'd say it's too early. But the foals can be weaned physically and then put back with the mares and still get 'moral' support even though they'll no longer be allowed to nurse. She and the vet are there, they can see what's going on, we can't.


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

There is going to be vet here in March who can geld I can ask if she will do it. Is it ok that young? I will try some of Dreamcatchers suggestions. Already the youngest baby is VERY independent and leaves mom and wanders off and can be ponied while I ride another horse and leaves mom happily. She easily is away from mom for an hour without stressing...the boy Wisdom is more afraid but I can lead him away from mom and he will do so willingly and will stay with a human and not cry.

It already looks like the mares are weaning them some on their own as both push the babies away and get annoyed with them. Both are good moms but you can see how they are physically just drained I feel sorry for them....


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Tori Taylor said:


> There is going to be vet here in March who can geld I can ask if she will do it. Is it ok that young? .


As long as the testes are both descended, you can do it. I geld as early as possible, have done it at 2 1/2 months. The younger the better in my book. They get sedated, lay down for a few minutes, get up after it's over and head straight for the 'milk bar' and nurse. Don't even seem to miss them or know that something was done. They heal very quickly too. That's why I was asking if it would be possible BEFORE weaning, but if the vet won't be there until March, then doing it then would work fine. Since you have kind of a restricted area for Mares & the colt, I'd be looking to have it done as soon as you possibly can. They are amazingly inventive at finding ways to breed, even when very very young.


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

Ha ha I already have 4 horses too many I definitely do not want them breeding and he is not a great quality baby either.....


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## Kay Armstrong (Jun 28, 2015)

I would follow your vet's advice. None of us has seen your horses or babies so go with the vet's suggestions.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Actually we do...
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/new-baby-sooner-than-we-thought-730906/

The OP runs a rescue in Indonesia and has shared lots of (very interesting!) details. They have to make do with the minimum and often get horses in that have had even less than that.

While I agree that 3 months is not _ideal_, I think in the OPs circumstances it is absolutely appropriate if both babies are healthy. Heck, it wouldn't be wrong to pull them off the mare even younger and supplement the milk, there is no "wrong" in this sort of situations with weaning. I've dealt with ewes that couldn't keep condition with lambs and had to wean early (I've sold some as bottle lambs even which I hate doing). I haven't dealt with any already compromised broodmares but knew one 17.2 behemoth who after foaling lost DRAMATIC condition despite top quality proactive care (they were able to keep her well to wean at 6 months but very different circumstances). A horse in rough condition to begin with... it's really not worth it to keep the foal on. 3 months is perfectly acceptable. Not like trying to wean at a month or anything...earlier than preferred but not "too" early. I definitely support the OPs decision under the circumstances..I would likely do the same.

Without knowing your details for sake of room I would probably wean one at the time. Are they out together? Are the mom's OK with the other babies? I might TRY leaving one baby in with the other mom/baby but could be risky. Ideally there would be another adult horse. Otherwise different stalls and rotate paddock time. Or keep the babies together and pull both mom's. I would definitely make sure the babies have a friend through the process.

Where you aren't doing it "cold turkey" it may help to put them in the paddock together and separate them in the stalls, very gradual to get them used to it. (separate at night, together during day for ex)

Honestly if the mare's are already pushing them away they may just wean on their own.


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

During the day both mares and babies are out together in the small paddock with few problems. Sometimes bossiness over food etc but no issues and nobody gets bitten or kicked. I was thinking of leaving babies out in paddock together a few hours each day and putting mommies back into the stalls away form them and then gradually increasing the time over a few weeks? I also was going to take the babies out and let them graze on lead away form mom once per day? I am already feeding everyone out of their own bowls and the babies have increased there intake of proper feed and eat lots of the grass hay too. Hopefully the eventual plan would be once moms are dry then all can go back together again during the day and be stalled separate at night. 

Thanks for all of the help I will see how things go and value everyone's advice. We are definitely in a different situation and have limited resources.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sounds like a good plan to me!

Remember most "styles" of weaning have more of a "break the bond" mindset, as opposed to simply "stop nursing". I don't even bother weaning my sheep anymore and there are tons of benefits and no downsides to that. In fact I weaned some last year (adjacent pen) just because I wanted to handle the lambs more and put them in an easier spot to do so and I was like "we do we do this again?" lol.

I'd love updated pics if you have any  That foal was so cute and I don't think I've seen the other!!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I Have weaned both early (at three months ) and later (8-9 months ), and both sets of foals grew up fine
The reason I used to wean early, was because I showed in foal futurities, and often also rode that mare again, either to show, or when short a horse to ride in the mountains.
I always used the abrupt method, but also always weaned foals with fellow foals
Since I have safe large stalls, with rubber matts, and stalls horses can neither try to jump out of, it worked for me to put two foals in each stall, and turn the moms back out with the main herd
In aday or so, those foals would quiet down, dams as they dried up, would cease coming tot he gate, when those babies cried.
After aday or so, those foals were calmed down enough to then halter break, lead up and down the barn isle, were eating good, so no longer desperate to join moms.
It was then safe to lead them to a large corral, for the day, as they were past any attempt to try and jump out , to re join moms, who often could no longer be bothered even to return a call by then.. Once those mares dried up, that strong maternal bond is gone
After two or three months, I had no problem turning those weanlings out, into a winter pasture, across from the main herd, which included their dams


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

Here are some photos of the babies from a couple weeks ago. . Varsha is the bay and was born October 21. The buckskin is Wisdom estimated born October 1. (I have to post multiple times to post the photos from my iPad...)


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

Another


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

Varsha again


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

And little Wisdom...they have their own Facebook page called unofficial: Faith, Hope and Charity (3 mares names)


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Love Wisdom's wild hairdo


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

They are so cute!
I love the dark around their ears <3
Thanks for sharing!!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Too cute!!


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## Tori Taylor (Oct 9, 2015)

Yes his hair is a bit wild and his mane is beginning to split in three different spots lol! He doesn't get brushed like Varsha does as he is still afraid of strangers where she seeks out humans and begs for attention. There is a brush and curry left hanging on the paddock and Varsha must get brushed by local kids ten times a day!


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## daystar88 (Jan 17, 2013)

Try to wait 1 more month until the youngest is 4 months before weaning.


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