# pasture tune up



## littrella (Aug 28, 2010)

subbing, trying to re-hab a weedy pasture also & want to see what everybody has to say


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Since you're in CA you may have restrictions I don't. If you can burn, once the cows eat it down a bit, I'd burn off the pasture and then turn everything under and re-seed with grass. If you can't burn, then I'd turn it all under and re-seed. Once it's starting to come up, watch for the weeds and spray a weed killer. Ideally, I'd spray a pre-emergant weed killer before anything came up in spring and then after the recommended time, I'd re-seed the grass. You'd probably need to establish a 'sacrifice' lot to keep the horses off the newly seeded pastures for a while but in a year you could have a lush green pasture established. 

Because the drought has killed off everything here, I'm going to have to re-seed but I have to wait until I know the drought is over. Right now, I can't burn and it would be a waste of time and money to spray or re-seed. I'm looking forward to the end of the drought so I can get my pastures deep in grass again, I remember vaguely, when things were green!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I can imagine ;-)

I don't think burning it would be such a good idea and I bet we couldn't anyway....California is really strange. I'd be afraid to burn neighbor's pasture too. Although he could use it;-) . Apart from that there are houses too. 
I was thinking of spraying, turning under and reseeding anyway, seems the easiest option. 
Then get a first cut of hay from it and then graze it. 
Sacrifice lot I have, 4 acres of dry lot. 

I looked into seeds and decided I really miss my Bavarian pre-alpine grass and herb mix......:/
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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

You can spray it with a 2-4-D weed killer. It is pasture safe (no waiting), but you would have to read how long you have to wait after spraying before slaughter for the cows.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks PHM
We will do the tune up before we put any animals on. 
Hubby is all for spraying the weeds, but doesn't know what to do after.....drag, turn under, reseed.....he believes in being informed BEFORE talking to a custom farmer about doing it, guess he doesn't want to look stupid;-)
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I've been using 2-4-D out here and it's pretty good if you stay on it and don't have the drought issues we're having. From what the OP is describing, I'd use the pre-emergent to kill everything off prior to it coming in and then re-seed with what I wanted.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's what I had in mind, but what do you do with the dead grass and weeds, full of chemicals...?
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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If you do the pre-emergent and then wait the specified amount of time before you re-seed, there's no problem. 

If you go the 2-4-D route, it's pasture safe and you don't have to stop grazing (though I do, at least until it's dry) but there is a withdrawal time for cattle going to slaughter. You spray before you want to slaughter your cattle, then you wait the number of days it says for it to clear their systems and then you load 'em up and take them to the knacker. Or you can wait til you take them to slaughter and then spray.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

If you want to kill everything (including any grass), spraying RoundUp is the way to go.....it kills everything.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Might be the best idea judging by how many weeds an obviously unpalatable grass there is. 
But what happens to all the dead stuff, do we take it off or just reseed over it or plow it all under?
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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I harrowed my hill side a couple of years ago, got 5 inches of rain, and lost a lot of top soil.

How ever you choose to get rid of the weeds, (I'd just mow), rather than harrow, I'd try to rent a no-till drill and reseed using it.

Less chance of losing top soil and as it places the seed at the correct depth it's much more likely to germinate and grow than seed that's spread.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks, good advice. Won't have any problem with losing top soil, flat as a pancake here;-) and 5" of rain....would be nice.....but highly unlikely (watch me and my luck, tho;-))
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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

If you kill everything with something like RoundUp, you can just use a seed drill to seed the grass. No need to harrow or anything else.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Okay, thanks everybody 
very helpful 
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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

The 2 4 D is the way to go. It kills off the broadleaf species and lets the grass take over. Spray.. wait a few days and then keep it mowed. You may want to drag your pastures after the cows leave too in order to spread the manure and aerate your pasture.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks SLS, I guess that's the easiest. Oh, the tumbleweeds? They are eaten down pretty much but im afraid they'll come back with a vengeance once the cows are off. Does the 24D take care of them too? 
The place was a dairy once and the soil is so dead, tw's are the only thing that grows in the pens where they had them
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

*No RoundUp*

Funny, I was loading hay from my hay man yesterday, and asking advice about re-seeding a portion of my small pasture acreage. (I own 3 horses and keep them on 4 acres of divided turnout/grazing pasture/working areas.) We in IL usually don't need to irrigate, like you do.
He told me that it is standard practice to RoundUp a new pasture before you put in the seed, but he advised me against it bc it will need to sit for 2 weeks, and I need to get the seed into the ground ASAP, if it will come up high enough to survive our next winter. YOUR situation might be different. Our normal first frost is October 15th.
I need to reseed about half of my 1/2-3/4 acre South Pasture, L-shaped and flanked by 30 ft. pine trees on the south and west sides. Usually I just mow to knock down the weeds bc it opens up the grass growing alongside. I'm tilling a 12 ft. wide swathe tonight, adding manure for fertilizer (recommended), seeding and covering with grass clippings to keep the birds away. I grew carrots this summer this way, during our rotten drought, and most of them came up. (Carrots can be a difficult crop.)
Another piece of advice was to drag the tilled area before planting to level it out.
Good luck, and keep us up to date. I'll take pictures and let you know you MINE goes, too. =D


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

We have maybe 2 or 3 nights in winter with slight frost, so I'm not really in a hurry. Guess we'll have to walk the pasture and do a weedcount...if it's more than half I'd say Roundup, if it's less than the 24D should do. Im planning on having the soil tested to see what's missing, tho. Its awfully patchy, parts are supershort and burned, others are lush green, but lumpy ...the short patches are from having horses tied to one spot for weeks on end. Not us, of course. 
If we end up redoing it completely I guess we could spread the horse manure...when cows eat it down and horses go on after, the possible worm burden should not be a problem since they're from a different species, right?
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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Thanks SLS, I guess that's the easiest. Oh, the tumbleweeds? They are eaten down pretty much but im afraid they'll come back with a vengeance once the cows are off. Does the 24D take care of them too?
> The place was a dairy once and the soil is so dead, tw's are the only thing that grows in the pens where they had them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, 2-4-D kills tumbleweeds.
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

They don't share many parasites. Perhaps you can compost instead of manuring bc it's the dry weather that kills them off. I'm using manure that's been drying out all summer, so I'm not worrying about it. Still, it's gonna be a BIG job, and I've been putting up hay in my loft--75 (65lb) square bales just yesterday--for next winter, so I'm still a little sore.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hallelujah! !!
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That was meant for the tumbleweeds, Corporal...

As for manure, I don't think it should be a problem since definitely cows go on first.
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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Here is the weed list for 2-4-D

http://www.pbigordon.com/pdfs/PastureProHerbicide-SL.pdf
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

We know ONE thing, for sure--It'll be GREAT when it's all seeded, the grass comes up and they are grazing on it!
I hate to mention it, but nobody can graze on it for months. I've reseeded this same area before, accidently, bc I fed brohme hay with seeds in it, and they sprouted, but my horses destroyed it walking all over it.
Once I seed the area, my horses won't have access to it until next Spring.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi, no to the round up. The 2 4 D is the safe weed killer for pastures. You need to get a Burn Permit in CA. There are burn days and no burn days due the the air quality. You should disc , In your area you can probably plant trefoils,orchardgrass,fescues,rye,clover mix pasture seed. There should be a seed dealer near you, that could tell you the better mixes. Tumble weeds .. this year has been the worse. Tons of them everywhere. I would not use a preemergent. I would disc, water, let them start, then disc again. In my pasture i have an area that is used for the water and hay feeding that is a large corral size 40 ft by 40 ft . This way I have more grass area. Good luck


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

stevenson, give my your advice. I've bought enough pasture seed for 2 acres--on sale--don't need that much. WHY do you recommend disking again after seeding?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi
I was thinking of orchard, Timothy, maybe a little rye, some grain and a bit of alfalfa. Needs to be palatable for both, horses and cows .....now that we have decided to get more horses;-)
Idea is to re-do the pasture now, get a first cut off, depending on the growth situation and then put cows on, rotational, and let horses follow.
that way the new plants have a chance to settle themselves. 
Tell me if im wrong...
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

PaintHorseMares said:


> Here is the weed list for 2-4-D
> 
> http://www.pbigordon.com/pdfs/PastureProHerbicide-SL.pdf
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, thanks
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

PaintHorseMares said:


> Yes, 2-4-D kills tumbleweeds.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is great!!! The two drylots are full of them. 
Although hubby seems to enjoy going down on his knees and pulling them out by hand, im afraid once he's finished he can start all over again cause they since have grown back......;-)
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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

If the pasture is overgrown with weeds, and you want to add manure for organic , I would spray, kill the weeds, Tumble weeds (russian thistle) seed themselves , and it can take a lot of weed killer, discing etc to get rid of them.
When we redid our pastures, sprayed ,added manure I have terrible soil here, added fertilizer, disced harrowed, and reseeded. I get stinging nettles which are just about as hard to get rid of as tumble weeds, foxtails, a type of burr. 
If you are not overgrown with weeds, and can grain drill your seeds then I would not see the extra time of discing.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm not overgrown with weeds. A LOT, but not all of my south pasture's grass dried up and died, and the weeds didn't.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Lil. I tried the same thing for our problem, cockleburrs, before going to 2-4-D. I found out the hard way that if you don't get the whole root, they're back again after the next rain. 2-4-D does a very effective job.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, I could swear the tumbleweeds are throwing raspberries at hubby
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

stevenson said:


> If the pasture is overgrown with weeds, and you want to add manure for organic , I would spray, kill the weeds, Tumble weeds (russian thistle) seed themselves , and it can take a lot of weed killer, discing etc to get rid of them.
> When we redid our pastures, sprayed ,added manure I have terrible soil here, added fertilizer, disced harrowed, and reseeded. I get stinging nettles which are just about as hard to get rid of as tumble weeds, foxtails, a type of burr.
> If you are not overgrown with weeds, and can grain drill your seeds then I would not see the extra time of discing.


when living across the big water we gradi a real problem with stinging nettles. I noticed some of my horses were trying to eat them but got stung, if course. Then I found that nettles have a lot if good stuff in them, like cleansing qualities. I did notice that horses would eat dried nettles. So I started cutting them down and leaving them. They ate them. Not always, but there seemed to be times they would need them.
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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

yes we have lots of rules. If you buy weed killer at home depot or lowes etc, then you can use it whenever. If you get Ag strength you have to register and call before you spray. Each County has it own rules and regs. If you have the blunt nosed blue belly lizard or the kangaroo rat you cannot do much (dont ask dont tell ) 
Hopefully all the drought stricken areas will get rain this year ! Isaac is helping out  just dont want uneeded flooding in those areas
I would have rather not had to redisc, but I am surrounded by foothills and tons of weeds, and we broadcast seed.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Sounds like it would be best to see the county extension agent....to make sure we're within the rules.....geezzzzz
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I thought I'd share my Photobucket Album.
Pasture Replant Project Photos by ducks4you_2009 | Photobucket
I finally finished re seeding last week. Buster, Rose (black BC mix) and Pyg (Lab mix) AND the cats ALL helped...in their own ways. =b


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

OH, the last photo shows storm tree damage to my fencing last August. The limb has been removed, but I still need to fix the metal. Don't worry--this is between my "inner sanctum" in front of the barn and my south pasture, where the horses don't get to go.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

They are very important, I guess you realize that....somebody had to make sure it's done right;-)

Well, I wish my pasture was nice and level...now that the cows have it eaten down, I see it's awfully bumpy. The guy who had it before irrigated, left the water on for two, three days at a crack, and had the livestock on it. So they created the craters im seeing now. Plus there's an old irrigation ditch right through the middle, another potential hazard. 
We did find a custom farmer, but he's so hard to get a hold off....want him to have a look and give suggestions. We will get a first cut of hay off, that's for sure.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

deserthorsewoman said:


> They are very important, I guess you realize that....somebody had to make sure it's done right;-)


You KNEW!!
I had a section by the east fence that was severely compacted. I ran the tiller over it and it was like tilling cement. I carted in 8 big wheelbarrow, the one with the 2 wheels, loads of tilled garden dirt, then leveled that with the tiller, THEN seeded it, so that the grass's roots had something easy to push through. I'm taking one full year to amend this 3/4 acre pasture. My horses don't get to graze on it again until next June, and the I'll be monitoring them. It should be very tall and lush by then. I'll keep adding to my album as I see more improvements. BTW, the album loaded last to first. You can see that I tilled these areas a full 3x, until the dirt was fluffy.
I don't worry about the dogs and cats running on it. I'm sure that THAT is important, too. =b


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh yeah, load testing;-)


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

good luck with your pastures ! right now we are fighting tumbleweeds (russian thisle) I hate them and stinging nettles. As soon as the pasture goes totally dormant we will be spraying, if it stays warm enough, to kill the nettle and tumbleweeds.. a pasture is a never ending project  i love the grass and the fact i dont have to clean poo!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You might want to get a cow or two....they took care of my tumbleweeds....ate them all, so no seeds....yayyyyyy;-)


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

we have thought about a cow, but then its what type .. etc etc,, not gonna butcher it.. breed it, deal with the calf ..so cute.. and have to slaughter it ;( we end up in an arguement lol.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Same here....that's why I " borrowed" neighbor's cows;-)
he was happy, he didn't have any grass, and I got my pasture cleaned up. And occasionally they even come for a visit to the house....he doesn't keep his fences in order, so they go for excursions but somehow end up with us. More than once I looked out of the window and had a heifer or two grazing my front lawn


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