# Conformation + Breed



## SummerBliss (Jan 7, 2017)

Hey everyone. So I'm sure as some of you know, I got another horse about a month ago now. I snatched him up before he could go to auction and have been working with him since he was terrified of humans. And now that i've gained his trust more, i've managed to get a few decent pics of him and I'd love to hear what you guys think about his conformation, as well as what breed you think he is. 

This is mostly just for fun and a way to help improve my own eye when looking at a horses build. His breed is unknown at this time. He's about 2 years old, potentially 3 and stands around the 14 hh mark. 
I'm sorry the pictures aren't the greatest, but with a horse that's a worrier and is nervous about people often, these are the best I could get of him at this time. And due to his anxiousness while out and about, I only managed to get somewhat decent pics of his front and back end when he was eating his supper. So he isn't standing square, but as close to it as I could get him. 


Current guess of his breed (by me, last owner, and a rancher guy). The guess is that he has morgan, thoroughbred, and potenially draft in him or maybe haflinger or something like that. 
I honestly think for the random breeds he's crossed with, he's decently put together. But I don't know a lot about confo, so I look forward to hearing what you guys have to say.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

I know you said you can't get better pictures, so I want to tell you now that any evaluation you get on them is not going to necessarily be accurate, because those sorts of angles can make things seem wrong that aren't and hide bad things. Also take this with a grain of salt because I'm not an expert.

From what I can see he stands under himself in the front, which isn't necessarily the most desirable trait, especially since it can indicate pain in some cases. He's somewhat posty in the hind end I think, with a steep hip and a butt-high build. He's got a really skinny shoulder and a somewhat oddly set neck (to my eye). Hard to tell how much of that part is muscling or anything though. His head is nice, albeit looking a little big for his neck. It does seem like he's got a decently short back, so that's a plus. He might toe out, or it might be his stance, but right off I don't see any glaring faults with his legs.


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## SummerBliss (Jan 7, 2017)

Thanks. And I noticed he was leaning a little forward in the pics. It was hard to get a pic of him standing and in each one, literally a second after I took the pictures, he moved forward, so his legs being under him a bit (especially in the first photo) is just cause he was about to move. And his hooves aren't great right now as they're on the long side since he's only had one trim in the last 8+ months so that could be affecting his stance as well. The trim he got done was a few days before I got him, his feet aren't as bad as they once were.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think he's VERY Morgan-y. As said, could be some sort of cross ending up with that look but I wouldn't be shocked if you said he was a papered Morgan. While he does have a heavier look if he does have draft it's far back, I would expect him to be a LOT heavier if it was close up, same with TB/Haffie, a little bit of blood is possible but I wouldn't think it likely. Mustangs can have a similar look, idk if you have many in your location? Sometimes you have to look at what's most likely. Personally I would go with Morgan, I think purebred is completely likely. He has the (wonderful) elegant but still well built and solid, good feet, with lots of mane/tail, and the fetlock hair is common too.

As far as conformation hard to say from the pictures, but he looks solid and well built, I don't think a single thing stands out. I think you've got a diamond in the rough there. I quite like him and would love to see some follow up pics esp as he grows.

And I know he's leery atm, but check his teeth when you're able, they should be fairly accurate at such a young age.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I may be far off the mark here, but that first pic almost says arab to me. Or maybe some welsh in there? Since he's still so young he has a bit of filling out to do - he still looks a bit awkward and going through some growing phases. I also think he looks a little post-y on his hind end. Overall a decent looking chap - and I would love to see him as he fills in and grows up. Best of luck with him.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I'll second Morgan or Mustang. :smile: 

I really don't see Thoroughbred, but what do I know. I'm not that familiar with them. I just picture them sort of lanky and light all over. Not short and stout.

I used to have the most wonderful BLM Mustang that my friend said looked like an old-style Morgan. He had many similarities to your guy. But he also had a little bit more "Mustangy" head. But his body type was similar.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

He looks like he'll be a nice solid type. Breed - brown & black, 4 legged variety! But yeah when Yogi mentioned Morgan, can absolutely see that. I like him!

Things that struck me negatively is how bum-high he is, and how straight his hind legs. But then, if he's only 2yo it could very easily be just a growth stage & he will balance out. Was also going to comment on his high heeled fronts, but I noticed you said he hasn't been able to be done yet. Oh and the maaasive side to side imbalance of his hind end... but that could be purely his stance & camera angle making it look so bad.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

cbar said:


> I may be far off the mark here, but that first pic almost says arab to me. Or maybe some welsh in there? Since he's still so young he has a bit of filling out to do - he still looks a bit awkward and going through some growing phases. I also think he looks a little post-y on his hind end. Overall a decent looking chap - and I would love to see him as he fills in and grows up. Best of luck with him.


I see that too but doubt he has much Arabian in him (more then any other horses lol) Morgans have a similar look and he just doesn't look like an Arab at all to me. I do see what you see though lol, just knowing both breeds well don't think it means anything. If that makes sense...! I know a purebred Arab who could be his brother however if you stood them side by side they would look completely different, the Arab has Arab characteristics and this horse does not.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Looks like a Morgan to me too, right color, right size, right temperament. Morgans are often very loyal and close to their owner, but suspicious of others. Sort of "one person" horses. They also are higher strung, generally, than QH types, and sensitive. Hardy, hardworking with good stamina, but can suffer from metabolic issues r/t being easy keepers. Forcing or harsh training can make a Morgan very resentful and mean. 

Of course these are all generalities, as every horse is an individual. 

Second possibility would be a mustang cross, but doubt full mustang because his head too refined and the neck is nicely arched.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

I would be willing to put my money on him being at least half Morgan, but I wouldn't be surprised if he were full... Here are some pictures of Minnie, the Morgan that I brought home earlier this year:


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Short sturdy bay horse without the dished face, flatter topline, and lighter build of an Arabian: Morgan and/or Mustang are the top choices; if you are in Eastern Canada I would tend to the former, Western Canada the latter might be more likely. I wouldn't worry at all about a butt-high two or three year old. My Morgan mare was six before she was square. I really do not see much to complain about on this horse. Yeah, he's a little posty behind but not alarmingly so. Nice catch!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I thought Morgans had Arab in them??


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

loosie said:


> I thought Morgans had Arab in them??


Loosie I'm guessing you're thinking of Saddlebreds. The "modern" Morgan has a lot of Saddlebred blood when they were not so secretly added to the purebred gene pool, if you look at a modern one compared to an "old style" one (Lippitt is the popular bloodline) they're completely different animals. The old style Morgan does not have Saddlebred blood (after all they were used to start that breed!) and is true to the Justin Morgan type. This guy would be the latter. There is some speculation as to the parentage of Justin Morgan but ultimately he was a grade farm horse that just happened to be amazing lol.

Google pics- Morgan









Also Morgan

















I think this last guy may be a good example of how they can be "Arab-y" without looking like Arabians lol.

Not only does this guy look all Morgan I don't see a single thing about him that does NOT look Morgan (which you would typically find in a grade horse!)


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, not thinking Saddlebred, don't know much about them, being in Oz there ain't many around. I looked into the breed many moons ago & thought there was arab in there. Maybe it's just because they look araby, the ones I've seen. Or maybe the Morgan stud I know here has crossed... don't know.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

loosie said:


> Yeah, not thinking Saddlebred, don't know much about them, being in Oz there ain't many around. I looked into the breed many moons ago & thought there was arab in there. Maybe it's just because they look araby, the ones I've seen. Or maybe the Morgan stud I know here has crossed... don't know.


I think they do look Arab like in a general sense- They have a very baroque look, some of the heavier stallions are just as massive as any true baroque! However, they have a lighter build then a true baroque. Arabs have that same round build on a lighter body, lighter then a Morgan yes, but a GOOD Arab should still have good bone. Light horse, around 14 hands, with an arched neck and rounded body...describes both. Morgans tend to have more hair though some Arabs have a lot too (the purebred I mentioned that I swear is this horses brother has a LOT of hair, comes from his mom lol). Arabs can also have a "heavy" look in terms of good bone and curvature though obviously they are still refined (moreso then a Morgan). Same general type, same general description (for temperament too). I'm very partial to both lol! I'm in MA as you may know, LOTS of Morgans around here. I can imagine they're very few over there!


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Just adding my opinion.

1. Yes, Morgan or Morgan cross.
2. I also thought I had read that Morgans had Arab blood, and that's where their head shape came from.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I just googled... "a horse named Figure, owned by Vermont schoolteacher Justin Morgan in late 1700. No one knows with certainty what Figure's pedigree was, but it's generally accepted that he was the offspring of horses with Arabian, Thoroughbred, and perhaps Welsh Cob or Friesian bloodlines". Didn't go further, to see if they were bred with more arabs, TBs, cobs, but I had thought Friesian figured strongly too.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I just googled... "a horse named Figure, owned by Vermont schoolteacher Justin Morgan in late 1700. No one knows with certainty what Figure's pedigree was, but it's generally accepted that he was the offspring of horses with Arabian, Thoroughbred, and perhaps Welsh Cob or Friesian bloodlines". I think that must be where I got the idea. Didn't go further, to see if they were bred with more arabs, TBs, cobs, but I had thought Friesian figured strongly too.


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## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

Without looking at the part of the post that said Morgan, I thought he looked like a Morgan. And yeah, Morgans can look very arab-y. I'd vote that he's mostly Morgan. How does he move? Have you seen him lope in the pasture? Most of the time Morgans will trot _very_ fast before they start loping. And they tend to put their tail up in the air when they run. Their stride is really long. Great for carriage horses but a little hard to sit sometimes!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My current understanding is that the Canadian Horse and the traditional Morgan (pre-Saddlebred genes) are quite closely related. The former is descended from the royal French stud in Normandy; the king sent a nucleus of fine breeding stock to the New World in the 17th century. The traditional Morgan is generally shorter and more refined than the Canadian Horse but you can see the relationship. The two breeds were both originally multi-purpose riding, light draft, and driving horses. 

My unregistered Morgan rescue mare, pretty traditional looking:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

loosie said:


> I just googled... "a horse named Figure, owned by Vermont schoolteacher Justin Morgan in late 1700. No one knows with certainty what Figure's pedigree was, but it's generally accepted that he was the offspring of horses with Arabian, Thoroughbred, and perhaps Welsh Cob or Friesian bloodlines". Didn't go further, to see if they were bred with more arabs, TBs, cobs, but I had thought Friesian figured strongly too.


Just grade farm horses lol. I don't think they have an Arab shaped head at all...?

They likely have some Arab blood but like I said above no more then any other breed! I don't think there was too much intentional outcrossing in the creation of the breed, by the time anyone would have thought of it the breed was already pretty established. They just bred random mares to Justin Morgan because he was so nice and had a good stamp (Justin Morgan = Figure they used the owner's name as the horses. Figure is much better lol) Canadian horses are similar, though heavier.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Interesting 1841 affidavit of a man who saw Justin Morgan as a youth. At that time he was known as "the Goss Horse", that being his current owner. The author states that the horse was believed to be French Canadian. 

link: Justin Morgan Canadian connection
There are some DNA linkages.

One argument for Figure not being simply a miscellaneous cross is that he was famous for prepotency, which is not a trait of outcrosses. However, even in his lifetime his origins were hotly debated. I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to guess that Canadian Horses and traditional Morgans have very similar roots, however.

(I know I am thread hijacking ... sorry!)


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## SummerBliss (Jan 7, 2017)

Ya, the more I'm hearing and seeing of other morgans and what their personalities are like, I can see a lot of that in him. I'm hoping to get a vet out soon to give him his booster shots and do a simple check over of him and see if we can tell a bit more accurately his age. Looking forward to seeing how he fills out as he gets older, that's for sure. 

Also, the reason a guy thought he had thoroughbred in him is because he has a narrow chest like thoroughbreds tend to have.


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## Bombproof (May 20, 2015)

As for breed, I'd have to say he looks more like a traditional Morgan than any other breed I can think of, but appearance alone is not a lot to hang your hat upon. Overall, he looks like a nice, well-balanced Generic Horse of the Ride For Fun subtype.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

SummerBliss said:


> Ya, the more I'm hearing and seeing of other morgans and what their personalities are like, I can see a lot of that in him. I'm hoping to get a vet out soon to give him his booster shots and do a simple check over of him and see if we can tell a bit more accurately his age. Looking forward to seeing how he fills out as he gets older, that's for sure.
> 
> Also, the reason a guy thought he had thoroughbred in him is because he has a narrow chest like thoroughbreds tend to have.


That is likely even more his (young) age, conformation and muscling as any possible breed characteristic.


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