# Beginning to jump feedback



## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

You've helped me before in helping me to understand better my daughter's riding lessons--what's going on, what's expected, what's within normal. So I'm here again, with my questions. 

She takes weekly lessons, and she's been jumping for the last 6-7 of them. 

Could you please give me some pointers in terms of what to look for, what questions to ask the instructor, and how to understand all of this better. 





 





 
This is her last lesson. I hope I got the name of the jump right. :lol:





 
Thank so much!


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## BlondieHorseChic (May 6, 2011)

1st and 2nd video - it looks like she is leaning forward the whole time and just going more forward over the jump. There should be a noticeable point in which she gets into 2-point.
She should have a little more contact with the saddle so she can have a driving seat. And defiantly always keep heels down. Some instructors say it's good to be more forward in the saddle because it helps keep the horse light and energized, but I myself prefer to have a fuller seat because i can 'drive' him a little better with more contact.

Last video- really keep heels down over the jump. It will help her not get thrown onto the horses neck. Also a couple times she caug he horse in the mouth, she really needs to work on giving more of a crest release. (move hands higher up neck.) she can put her hands on the horses neck or even grab some mane. It's not bad it helps the rider keep balance. I sill do it.

She is a really good rider. It took me a long time to be able to jump. She does really well.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

BlondieHorseChic said:


> 1st and 2nd video - it looks like she is leaning forward the whole time and just going more forward over the jump. There should be a noticeable point in which she gets into 2-point.
> She should have a little more contact with the saddle so she can have a driving seat. And defiantly always keep heels down. Some instructors say it's good to be more forward in the saddle because it helps keep the horse light and energized, but I myself prefer to have a fuller seat because i can 'drive' him a little better with more contact.
> 
> Last video- really keep heels down over the jump. It will help her not get thrown onto the horses neck. Also a couple times she caug he horse in the mouth, she really needs to work on giving more of a crest release. (move hands higher up neck.) she can put her hands on the horses neck or even grab some mane. It's not bad it helps the rider keep balance. I sill do it.
> ...


Thank you for taking the time! I'm trying to process this in the context of her lessons. 

She's being taught to approach in 2-point and to "hold her position" over the jumps. Does it matter that this is an eventing barn? 

She is being told to keep her heels down (and reminded frequently), so I guess she's trying her best for now, but maybe it isn't working out. But the release wasn't mentioned yet at all. Is the release being taught separately, or if she's being told to keep her position (2-point) then it is sort of incorporated into it, without the terminology? 

Today when she practiced cantering around the arena in 2-point, she was told not to lean on the neck at all, and to just balance herself. Is this a step towards a proper release? Is the crest release introduced right away when they start jumping?

It is hard for me to see whether she's following the instuctions, but knowing her, she's trying her best. 

This is some of her today's lesson. She said that jumping felt the best yet--she felt more confident and it felt smoother too.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

I also meant to ask (but now can's seem to be able to edit my previous post) about the approach at 2-point. Does this depend on the level of training (she's just started jumping, and has been riding for less than a year), or an approach to riding (eventing vs. ???) or just a teaching strategy? Or is it not generally done at all?

What would be the reasons for teaching a beginner this way? Pros and Cons of this? 

We do like the instructor so far, and I don't want to second-guess her, but I just want to be more aware of what is being taught and why.

Thanks!


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## BlondieHorseChic (May 6, 2011)

She looked alot better in the video from today. With the 2 point: thinking back to when i first learned i think i remember being told to approach in 2 point because it helps you get a feel for when the horse is going to take off and how to tell. It doesnt matter as much with smaller jumps and lesson horses. (i am in NO way being degrading) With smaller jumps if you get in 2 point to early you wont be 'left behind' or if you get up to late you wont be knocked out of the saddle. Lesson horses are generaly seasoned jumpers so you dont have to worry about them refusing a jump or running out of a jump. It is NOT GOOD if you are in 2 point to early and your horse decides to turn sharp or slam on the brakes. you fall on their neck or go over thier shoulder.
The release doesnt matter as much over the smaller jumps. The purpose of it is so that when the horse is jumping large jumpes they can stretch out their noses to: some people say it helps propel them, others say it helps them keep their balance. i cant remember when i was told to start giving a release. I can understand why the instructor is not giving her all these things at once. if there is an infromation overload it takes the fun out of it. once she learns all of the 'steps' to jumping it becomes a habit and you dont have to think of it. so the instructor is probably letting her get into the habit of 2 point then once she has gotten that then will work on the release.
i first learned to jump at hunter barn so i was always told i needed to lean back. The barn i am currently at told me to stay light in the saddle and just know when to have my weight forward or back. I now jump for fun since i started to hate the stress of the show circut. The position i ride in depends on what i am doing, what horse i ride, and even the terrain i ride on. so yes the eventing part could be different. (i have never been coached by an eventing instructor so i dont know first hand)
In regard to heels. I had trouble with keeping my heels down, so one of my instructors told me to do 'heel excersises' which were basicly standing on a stair with the ball of your foot on the edge of the stair and your heel over the edge. then put your heel down and hold the position. She had told me to do each foot seperatly and try to do this daily. gradualy work up how long you hold the positon for. (after a few weeks she wanted me to hold it 5 minutes straight for each leg)

On a completly different note DO NOT let her get into the habit of looking down at the jump. Look at the jump through the horses ears, but dont look down at the jump. (i still have the habit of doing this occasionaly. it is a hard habit to break.)
i hope this helps some. sorry for the novel of an answer and sorry for all typos and spelling errors.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

BlondieHorseChic said:


> She looked alot better in the video from today. With the 2 point: thinking back to when i first learned i think i remember being told to approach in 2 point because it helps you get a feel for when the horse is going to take off and how to tell. It doesnt matter as much with smaller jumps and lesson horses. (i am in NO way being degrading) With smaller jumps if you get in 2 point to early you wont be 'left behind' or if you get up to late you wont be knocked out of the saddle. Lesson horses are generaly seasoned jumpers so you dont have to worry about them refusing a jump or running out of a jump. It is NOT GOOD if you are in 2 point to early and your horse decides to turn sharp or slam on the brakes. you fall on their neck or go over thier shoulder.


This makes sense. At what point do they start teaching not to approach at 2-point? From my point of view she`s such a new rider, I`m surprised she`d doing jumping at all. But she loves it, and it seems that the instructor is safety oriented. So hopefully that`s okay. 




> The release doesnt matter as much over the smaller jumps. The purpose of it is so that when the horse is jumping large jumpes they can stretch out their noses to: some people say it helps propel them, others say it helps them keep their balance. i cant remember when i was told to start giving a release. I can understand why the instructor is not giving her all these things at once. if there is an infromation overload it takes the fun out of it. once she learns all of the 'steps' to jumping it becomes a habit and you dont have to think of it. so the instructor is probably letting her get into the habit of 2 point then once she has gotten that then will work on the release.


This makes sense, thanks. How is it taught? Are they just instructed to move their hands forward? 


> i first learned to jump at hunter barn so i was always told i needed to lean back. The barn i am currently at told me to stay light in the saddle and just know when to have my weight forward or back. I now jump for fun since i started to hate the stress of the show circut. The position i ride in depends on what i am doing, what horse i ride, and even the terrain i ride on. so yes the eventing part could be different. (i have never been coached by an eventing instructor so i dont know first hand)


Am I right in my understanding that there are several `correct` ways to jump, based on the discipline? Is one way better than the other, or they are just different techniques?



> In regard to heels. I had trouble with keeping my heels down, so one of my instructors told me to do 'heel excersises' which were basicly standing on a stair with the ball of your foot on the edge of the stair and your heel over the edge. then put your heel down and hold the position. She had told me to do each foot seperatly and try to do this daily. gradualy work up how long you hold the positon for. (after a few weeks she wanted me to hold it 5 minutes straight for each leg)


Thanks for this! I did read about this exercise some time ago, and told her about it, but she keeps forgetting and I don`t want to nag. I wish her instructor told her that, she really listens to her. But I`ll try reminding her one more time. :wink:



> On a completly different note DO NOT let her get into the habit of looking down at the jump. Look at the jump through the horses ears, but dont look down at the jump. (i still have the habit of doing this occasionaly. it is a hard habit to break.)
> i hope this helps some. sorry for the novel of an answer and sorry for all typos and spelling errors.


This is something her instructor is working with her. I hear `look up, look up, look up` all the time! :lol: 

Thank you so much, you`re so very helpful.


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## LizzieE (Jun 1, 2012)

I just wanted to pipe in and say that I think it is great that you are so engaged in your daughter's lessons. My mom doesn't know much about horses, but over the years she has tried her best to understand and help me in any way she can. Looking for advice from all of us horse lovers online was a great idea! Good for you!


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## heymckate (Nov 23, 2010)

Your daughter seems to be progressing nicely! And I agree--way to go that you're interested in her lessons and wanting to ask the right questions!

Her holding her two-point position going towards the jump isn't uncommon for beginner riders. As she gets better and gets the "feel" of the jump better, her instructor will likely at some point have her stop it. But it's a good training tool to get beginner jumpers into a good position over fences--this way they don't get left behind.


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## BlondieHorseChic (May 6, 2011)

It all depends on the riders progress and the instructors way of teaching. I was taught when I 'upgraded' to the next level horse which also ment a little higher jumps.
Yes, in my experience there are different ways to jump. Most people tend to do what they feel most comfortable with. In fact not to long ago people would hardly get into a 2 point and some riders would just collapse on their horses neck over the jumps. I don't really know if one is better than the other. I just jump how I feel most comfortable and whatever is best for my horse. ( he is still learning o jump so we get a weirs jump every now and then so I really have to work at feeling for when he is going to jump)

Your welcome!!!
And I am really glad you are trying to understand what goes on in your daughters lessons. My parents would just drop me off and leave. They only watched me ride at shows.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

LizzieE said:


> I just wanted to pipe in and say that I think it is great that you are so engaged in your daughter's lessons. My mom doesn't know much about horses, but over the years she has tried her best to understand and help me in any way she can. Looking for advice from all of us horse lovers online was a great idea! Good for you!


I`m trying! 



heymckate said:


> Your daughter seems to be progressing nicely! And I agree--way to go that you're interested in her lessons and wanting to ask the right questions!
> 
> Her holding her two-point position going towards the jump isn't uncommon for beginner riders. As she gets better and gets the "feel" of the jump better, her instructor will likely at some point have her stop it. But it's a good training tool to get beginner jumpers into a good position over fences--this way they don't get left behind.


Good to know, thank you.



BlondieHorseChic said:


> It all depends on the riders progress and the instructors way of teaching. I was taught when I 'upgraded' to the next level horse which also ment a little higher jumps.
> Yes, in my experience there are different ways to jump. Most people tend to do what they feel most comfortable with. In fact not to long ago people would hardly get into a 2 point and some riders would just collapse on their horses neck over the jumps. I don't really know if one is better than the other. I just jump how I feel most comfortable and whatever is best for my horse. ( he is still learning o jump so we get a weirs jump every now and then so I really have to work at feeling for when he is going to jump)
> 
> Your welcome!!!
> And I am really glad you are trying to understand what goes on in your daughters lessons. My parents would just drop me off and leave. They only watched me ride at shows.


This is interesting about different ways to jump. If I compare to tennis, for example, there are several `correct` ways to hit a forehand with good form, and there are also ways to hit it with poor form and still have a powerful shot most of the time (but this risks injury), and there there`s such poor form that it won`t let you hit the ball with any decent consistency. 

What elements should always be present in a jump for the form to be good, and in what elements more variation is allowed for to account for personal preference etc?

Thanks.


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

I remember posting in your other thread! It's great to see how your daughter has progressed.



> What elements should always be present in a jump for the form to be good, and in what elements more variation is allowed for to account for personal preference etc?


In my opinion, basic good form over a jump is:

*Heels down, legs at girth.
*The rider should be in two-point or at least something similar. Not over-jumping but still allowing the horse to get over the jump easily. 
*There should be some sort of release, so the horse doesn't get caught in the mouth and become sour to jumping. 
*Chin and eyes should be up, either looking at the next jump or barn wall. 



> This makes sense. At what point do they start teaching not to approach at 2-point? From my point of view she`s such a new rider, I`m surprised she`d doing jumping at all. But she loves it, and it seems that the instructor is safety oriented. So hopefully that`s okay.


I was taught to not approach in two-point once I started doing "real" jumps. That means not trotting/canter poles but cross-rails and such. Not saying that what anyone does isn't real or anything! However, different instructors have different ways of doing things. 



> This makes sense, thanks. How is it taught? Are they just instructed to move their hands forward?


It's kind of funny, I was just always taught to "release", and it was understood that it meant I had to move my hands forward. My current instructor is working on getting my release to be more "correct", and not over-doing it, things like that. 



> Am I right in my understanding that there are several `correct` ways to jump, based on the discipline? Is one way better than the other, or they are just different techniques?


I believe you're right. I don't believe one way is necessarily better than the other. 

Is she currently learning to count strides to the jumps? (While cantering). That may be a precursor to her instructor getting ready to transition her to approach in her regular seat and then learn "feel" in order to get into two-point at the right time. 

Also, it will get easier for her once she's almost always cantering the jumps. It's smoother and feels much more comfortable, at least to me. 

Some things I noticed:

*At times I couldn't tell if she was in two-point or a half-seat. 
*I'd really like to see her have a stronger two-point. This will come with time and practice in the saddle, but see if you can get her to exercise at home as well. 
*Her legs seem to be a bit unstable. 
*I think she could benefit from leaning back a bit. I know some barns/disciplines teach a rider a more forward seat, but this just seems kind of unstable to me at this time. If she was my student and I liked a more forward seat in my riders, I would have her doing lots of two-point, no stirrup work, stuff to help strengthen her muscles. Once she was stable in that position, I'd transition her to the more forward seat. That's just me though, and I'm not an instructor, haha! 

I'm being picky for someone her age. She is a good rider and I can see her becoming very good at whatever discipline she chooses!


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## Equitation4life (Mar 10, 2012)

I love your involvement and support for your daughter! Personally I think she should be doing more flat work, she is on a great horse who know his job! I really want to see her riding the horse instead of just sitting. Does she jump every lesson? I noticed some posting struggle, and she throws her body quite a bit (can cause tons of problems later). I think it would be really cool to see her master walk trot canter, then go back to jumping. But that's Just me  She has soooo much potential.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

Cinder said:


> I remember posting in your other thread! It's great to see how your daughter has progressed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thanks. Some answers.

She is not told to count steps. 

I haven't heard her trainer mention "half seat" at all. She's told to be in 2point, but also to sit up straight. Is this the half-seat?


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

Equitation4life said:


> I love your involvement and support for your daughter! Personally I think she should be doing more flat work, she is on a great horse who know his job! I really want to see her riding the horse instead of just sitting. Does she jump every lesson? I noticed some posting struggle, and she throws her body quite a bit (can cause tons of problems later). I think it would be really cool to see her master walk trot canter, then go back to jumping. But that's Just me  She has soooo much potential.


Thanks! Her horse loves to jump.

Her lessons are only 30-35 min a week. For the first 15 minutes she does rides in 2pt, and /or without stirrups. Is this what is called flatwork? This is an example:





 
It was her first time cantering without stirrups, so she wasn't very balanced. As a mom, I'm just impressed she isn't afraid of it! 


For the second half she does the jumps. For the last 6 or 7 lessons she did the jumps every time. 

Is the posting sruggle when she is circling before getting the horse to canter? She told me she struggles there, with the need to transition to canter, and get into the 2-pt. 

Personally I thought she'd be doing walk trot canter for much longer before jumping (from my non-horsey mom perspective :lol . It seems she just learned to canter so recently. I don't want to second guess the trainer, but I guess I'd like to try to ask her what are the benefits (if any) of jumping earlier rather than later?


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## Equitation4life (Mar 10, 2012)

Yeah walk trot canter is "flat work" Im really not a fan of having her trot and canter without sturrups becasue her legs were flying every where. Her seat with sturrups is not yet strong enough for her to sucessfully trot and canter without sturups. I didd't jump for years, because i had to master the basics. Thats what she really needs to work on, the basics. I woiuld really stress troting especially. Learning to correct way to post (diagonals) and how to control your horse's pace through your post. lots of 2 point at the trot really gearing her muscles up. working on some sitting trot, trotting without sturrups. Then trotting over some poles and crossrails. Im just worried that if she doesn't have the basics before she jumps, then she will have to go back and learn them later (very frustrating). flatwork is the key! if you want to be sucessful jumping you HAVE to be sucessful, confident, fluid, and correct flatting. Your daughter is very impressive though she has a very natural seat, wich is very good for the future


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

Equitation4life said:


> Yeah walk trot canter is "flat work" Im really not a fan of having her trot and canter without sturrups becasue her legs were flying every where.


How are her legs supposed to be? She was told to really relax them and to let them dangle. Is this a valid strategy or is this not done? 



> Her seat with sturrups is not yet strong enough for her to sucessfully trot and canter without sturups. I didd't jump for years, because i had to master the basics. Thats what she really needs to work on, the basics. I woiuld really stress troting especially. Learning to correct way to post (diagonals) and how to control your horse's pace through your post. lots of 2 point at the trot really gearing her muscles up. working on some sitting trot, trotting without sturrups. Then trotting over some poles and crossrails. Im just worried that if she doesn't have the basics before she jumps, then she will have to go back and learn them later (very frustrating). flatwork is the key! if you want to be sucessful jumping you HAVE to be sucessful, confident, fluid, and correct flatting. Your daughter is very impressive though she has a very natural seat, wich is very good for the future


[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I was also under the impression that she wouldn't be jumping for at least another year, so I was surprised she was started on jumping this spring. I'm not sure how to bring these concerns with the instructor. I don't have that much knowledge and I don't want to sound critical. But on the other hand, I don't want my daughter to be disadvantaged by not getting the right basics. 

What I would like to know if there are different approaches taken to this, that all lead to the same final result. One approach is obviously to wait until walk trot canter are very strong and then to start jumping. This makes sense to me.

On the other hand (and I'm speculating here, as I don't really have the knowledge) is it possible to work on both the basics *and* jumping at the same time? Or by jumping too early one will certainly end up with compromised flatting? 

Does this depend on the discipline of the instructor or even the number of weekly lessons that a child can have? Obviously my daughter can't really progress that fast, as we can only afford 30 min per week. This week it went to 35, and I was pleased even with that. 

This is almost her entire flatting part of the lesson this week:





 
She was on a new horse, who wasn't nearly as eager as the horse she rode for the last several months, so she had to work more on getting him moving.

After that they did the jumps. I stood at a different angle, and I can see how floppy her legs are. 





 
These two videos are a typical lesson for her, the way it is split into flat work and jumping. Most trainers wouldn't do it this way, and would just do flatting at this stage? How potentially detrimental can this be for her? 

I'm back to thinking that I don't really know how to address this with the trainer. I don't really think I can dictate how to teach and not sure switching would be a good option either.


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

> I haven't heard her trainer mention "half seat" at all. She's told to be in 2point, but also to sit up straight. Is this the half-seat?


It doesn't sound like it. It's kind of hard to explain, but to me it's like the middle ground between a regular seat and two-point. I also bring my butt off the saddle and keep contact with my saddle only lightly. 

Here's a quote from Yahoo answers which I think explains it nicely:


> In a half-seat position, the rider's seat bones are lifted out of the saddle, and only her pelvis has contact. It is used for jumping when some seat aid may be necessary, especially for sharp turns, when riding downhills, on the approach to potentially spooky fences, or when the rider wishes to collect the stride. This seat is a compromise, allowing the jumping rider to have greater control than when he rides in two-point, but still allowing him to keep the majority of weight off the horse's back.
> 
> Half-seat is often seen in hunt seat, show jumping, fox hunting, eventing (jumping phases), and at times in dressage for training purposes, to help lighten the horse's back.





> Is the posting sruggle when she is circling before getting the horse to canter? She told me she struggles there, with the need to transition to canter, and get into the 2-pt.


Personally, I did see it there. I don't know if her instructor has been telling her/reminding her but you're supposed to sit the trot in order to canter. This is also helpful (at least for me) for keeping the horse at a nice trot speed for a trot-canter transition. So she should sit, cue, and _then_ go into two-point- it's not all at once. 



> Personally I thought she'd be doing walk trot canter for much longer before jumping (from my non-horsey mom perspective ) . It seems she just learned to canter so recently. I don't want to second guess the trainer, but I guess I'd like to try to ask her what are the benefits (if any) of jumping earlier rather than later?


Many people have a lot of expectations a rider has to meet before they can canter or jump. Jumping in particular can be hard and potentially dangerous for a rider who's unprepared. 

However, I did go over a few jumps before I should have even seen a cross-rail. I feel that while it's often better to approach jumping later, there are a few benefits. In my opinion, it can increase confidence in your riding, and help spice up your routine. 



> How are her legs supposed to be? She was told to really relax them and to let them dangle. Is this a valid strategy or is this not done?


Stable, strong legs, especially in jumping are very important. You want them to pretty much look still. However, tense legs are not good. You also don't want to start a habit of someone gripping the saddle with their knees, an easy mistake to make when you are otherwise tense. This may just be a tactic for now, but this is why I said I'd have her be doing exercises to help strengthen those legs. 

Watching your latest videos now. Here are some of my observations:

*Elbows should be back. They are straight now.
*She seems to be gripping with her knees to me (it was a fault of mine for a while). A tell-tale sign is the way her lower leg swings back while her knee remains in contact with the saddle.
*Her heels should be down. 
*I would like to see a subtler post and again, bring those elbows back and have her lean back and relax.
*Her two-point needs a lot of work. She doesn't seem to be solid at it yet. 

I think she needs more work on the basics, but continuing to jump cross-rails and tiny verticals could be beneficial for her. Nothing bigger than 1'5" at this point at a stretch, I would say. 

Honestly, and sorry if this contradicts what else I've said as I haven't really thought about it until now. But in almost all cases, I prefer a very strong w/t before a canter, and then a solid canter before starting with small cross-rails with maybe a small vertical thrown in. The problem is that you really can't jump effectively until you have the basics down. At this point, I don't think she's solid enough in general to be doing a ton of jumping. Some? Yes! 



> These two videos are a typical lesson for her, the way it is split into flat work and jumping. Most trainers wouldn't do it this way, and would just do flatting at this stage? How potentially detrimental can this be for her?


My instructor splits up a lesson into flat work and jumping for my group, and in my experience it works quite well. However, at this stage, I'd feel most trainers would stick to just flatting. Maybe you should talk to her instructor and ask for her reasoning. Just say something like, "I was wondering why my daughter is jumping so early?"

Good luck and I hope I helped!


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

Cinder said:


> It doesn't sound like it. It's kind of hard to explain, but to me it's like the middle ground between a regular seat and two-point. I also bring my butt off the saddle and keep contact with my saddle only lightly.


The half-seat hasn't been mentioned or explained yet. 



> Personally, I did see it there. I don't know if her instructor has been telling her/reminding her but you're supposed to sit the trot in order to canter. This is also helpful (at least for me) for keeping the horse at a nice trot speed for a trot-canter transition. So she should sit, cue, and _then_ go into two-point- it's not all at once.


They haven't covered this yet either. She is told to ask the horse to canter, and that's all. 

Elbows haven't be mentioned at all. She hasn't received any pointers on her two-point in months, she's asked to do it and that's all. 

The heels and hands (thumbs on top) are mentioned in lessons. 


> Watching your latest videos now. Here are some of my observations:
> 
> *Elbows should be back. They are straight now.
> *She seems to be gripping with her knees to me (it was a fault of mine for a while). A tell-tale sign is the way her lower leg swings back while her knee remains in contact with the saddle.
> ...


 


> I think she needs more work on the basics, but continuing to jump cross-rails and tiny verticals could be beneficial for her. Nothing bigger than 1'5" at this point at a stretch, I would say.
> 
> Honestly, and sorry if this contradicts what else I've said as I haven't really thought about it until now. But in almost all cases, I prefer a very strong w/t before a canter, and then a solid canter before starting with small cross-rails with maybe a small vertical thrown in. The problem is that you really can't jump effectively until you have the basics down. At this point, I don't think she's solid enough in general to be doing a ton of jumping. Some? Yes!


Thanks. I guess she isn't donig a ton of jumping, eh? :lol: Or is it considered a lot? 



> My instructor splits up a lesson into flat work and jumping for my group, and in my experience it works quite well. However, at this stage, I'd feel most trainers would stick to just flatting. Maybe you should talk to her instructor and ask for her reasoning. Just say something like, "I was wondering why my daughter is jumping so early?"
> 
> Good luck and I hope I helped!


You've been very helpful, thank you! I'll ask some questions next week.


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## Equitation4life (Mar 10, 2012)

Yeah, she definitely needs some basics before jumping. Jumping is fun, but she is not being set up correctly and safely. What i like to say to help "frog- type legs" is to act as if you were giving your horse a hug, horses need to be comforted. When she was trotting her legs weren't secure at all. What she needs is practice on the flat. I noticed that she was bent forward, and her hands were stiff. When a beginner rider is introduced to a horse they should not jump unless confident to do so. When she was jumping, she was bouncing around the saddle, luckily she is on a nice calm horse. On many other horses her bouncing would have been dangerous. I don't believe she is strong enough to be cantering cross rails. She needs to be worked more on the flat before things get messy. Your daughter has a natural jump, she can handle it. She just isn't being taught correct. Its like younger horses, JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN JUMP, DOESN'T MEAN THEY SHOULD.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

I haven't been able to read the entire thread word for word, but while your daughter IS handling the fences well given her experience, I do think more flat work and no stirrup work would do wonders for her.

Many trainers get their beginners jumping soon after w/t/c because if the kid (in this case) is interested in jumping, they want to keep it fun and keep the kids interest (whether it truly be for the kid's happiness or for the money, etc.).

The new view of the jumps makes it even more clear that your daughter doesn't quite yet have the leg muscles to jump safely. It is like she is having to use her stirrups as a rocker to rock back and forth when going over the jumps. She can't use her legs to keep her seat, as she doesn't have the muscle or experience yet to do so.-- This is by no way knocking your daughter or her ability, it is just pointing out the flaw of starting to jump too quickly. In a few spots in some of the videos, you could see her getting popped out of the saddle, which can be dangerous if she can't recover quickly enough.

I also found it a little interesting that she was already doing bounces (a fence right after another) and combinations. Again, she seems to handle them well given the circumstances, but when I first learned to jump it was only one fence, then build it up from there. I would tend to think that a bounce is bad for a beginner over fences, as if the rider doesn't ride the first fence well and needs to collect themself, they won't have time to do so before the next fence and of course the horse will either 1) refuse because they know something is wrong, or 2) they will jump it anyways and the rider would mostlikely go flying.

I am not sure what your daughter's stance on this is but see wht she thinks about focusing more on her flat work to ensure a stronger AND safer seat for over fences. If you and your daughter agree, maybe present it to her trainer that while she does enjoy jumping, she would like to focus more on strenghtening her legs and seat so she can excel more over fences. Like I stated, no stirrup work will help.... walking, trotting (posting as well), cantering, over poles, etc. If she takes weekly lessons, maybe see if she can have one jumping lesson a month instead of ever time she rides.

Your daughter is a great little rider and will go far, but I agree with what some other members here have been saying in trying to work a little more on the basics before jumping. It is a lot of work, but much more worth it to start working on the foundation now than have to come back to it later in order to progress with her riding. Once the fences get bigger, a rider without a good foundation will not do well and it will become very dangerous.


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