# Black in Red Dun Tail?



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

looks pretty normal to me. I have seen that in red horses.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Very common.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Completely normal, many red based horses have black looking hairs in the center of their tail. ;-)


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## timonlionking (Sep 28, 2015)

Thanks, everyone! I'm still learning about genetics and everything and it's all so confusing! Also, how far back can a red factor go? If my stallion's grandma on his mom's side was red but his parents were black and dunalino (he's grullo), could he have a red factor? 
His grandparents on moms side are sorrel and black tobiano. Idk if that even matters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## timonlionking (Sep 28, 2015)

And also again! If he's paint bred, what are the chances of a paint foal?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Red can hide on a black horse. A black horse is E/?. If that is E/e than it could pass down several generations.
So "grandma" passed down the gene (e/e) and it hid on your stallions dam (making her E/e) than he could be E/e and you would only know for sure by testing. (Worth doing if you plan on breeding him imo). It's 50% chance that he inherited mom's "e" instead of her "E" (lol)

So your stud is Paint but no color since "grandpa"?.

Color CAN hide so it is possible but unlikely imo. Again I would test.

Do you have a picture? Does he have ANY white? Blue eyes?

Agree your mare's tail is normal, very common in red horse ime, especially the darker ones.

Also, thought, I have minimal dun experience but since the dorsal runs into the tail wouldn't it make sense to have some of the tail be true black due to the dorsal? Or does it not work like that.

Regardless even a regular chestnut can have a tail like hers so I am just theorizing lol.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

timonlionking said:


> Thanks, everyone! I'm still learning about genetics and everything and it's all so confusing! Also, how far back can a red factor go? If my stallion's grandma on his mom's side was red but his parents were black and dunalino (he's grullo), could he have a red factor?
> His grandparents on moms side are sorrel and black tobiano. Idk if that even matters.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I read this right, your stallion is grullo and his parents were black and dunalino. Dunalino is dun + cream on a chestnut horse, which means that your grullo stallion is heterozygous black (Ee), black from the black parent and red from the red parent (red parents only have red as red is recessive). 

If there is one tobiano grandparent but no tobiano parent between and the stallion isn't tobiano, it is a 99% chance that the stallion does not carry tobiano. Tobiano can hide with minimal to no white expression but it is very rare, even more uncommon to be supressed for two generations before showing expression. While your stallion has almost no chance of producing tobiano, he can have tobiano marked foals IF he breeds a tobiano mare and SHE passes tobiano to the foal.

Edit to add: if I understood the stallion color and his parent's colors correctly, he is not only heterozygous black, but also heterozygous dun. He has a 50% chance of passing dun to his offspring and another 50/50 toss between passing a black or red gene. As a grullo his agouti gene is inactive (agouti controls the on/off switches for black, restricting black to create bays and browns), in order for him to produce a bay, bay dun or any bay based color, the mare would have to pass the agouti.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

SunnyDraco you are a step ahead of me with the dunalino!

So he IS E/e but it's not from grandma!


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## timonlionking (Sep 28, 2015)

I figured as much. Haha.


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