# 7 month old Filly..Need I Say More?



## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

They poked a hole in her neck for a runny nose? 

Has she been dewormed lately? A runny nose can be caused by a wormy belly ( I forgot what type of worms, but a vet told me to power pack my weanling, using half the tube instead of a whole tube and it cleared the runny nose.)


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

What did your vet say about the hole in the neck during the PPE?

That seems awefully strange......


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

Drifting said:


> They poked a hole in her neck for a runny nose?
> 
> Has she been dewormed lately? A runny nose can be caused by a wormy belly ( I forgot what type of worms, but a vet told me to power pack my weanling, using half the tube instead of a whole tube and it cleared the runny nose.)


Yeah I don't know! haha that's what it sounded like they did but it shouldn't be from worms because they were supposed to have wormed her the week before I got her! Another filly they had was extremely sick and her head was swelled and she had snot everywhere, but that was just a genetic disease - her full sister had the same thing. So my filly didn't have that either, just a runny nose at that point!


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Ummmm that does not sound like a genetic disease but rather a disease that is contagious....


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> What did your vet say about the hole in the neck during the PPE?
> 
> That seems awefully strange......


I didn't do a PPE because I won her through a program at AQHA. She passed the brand inspection to cross the state lines so I assumed there couldn't be too much wrong! I will be having my vet out to see her soon if this doesn't stop quickly.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I'm not sure what the requirements are to pass that but I would say have your vet out sooner than later.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Ummmm that does not sound like a genetic disease but rather a disease that is contagious....


My filly hasn't shown any signs of that disease besides a runny nose and they had the sick foal with the others and none of them got sick. One of them out there had an open wound from running through a fence and didn't catch anything. (I added that because I would think that an open wound would be more susceptible for catching a disease?)


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

I wouldn't think an opened wound would be more susceptible to catching something. Viruses and other nasties can be transferred through the air, by touching noses, and drinking/ eating from contaminated buckets. Just like human illnesses. 

Please for the sake of your other horses. Get the vet out to find out what is really wrong with this horse. 

The only thing they check at the inspection stations here in Florida crossing county lines is a Coggins.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

aldebono said:


> I wouldn't think an opened wound would be more susceptible to catching something. Viruses and other nasties can be transferred through the air, by touching noses, and drinking/ eating from contaminated buckets. Just like human illnesses.
> 
> Please for the sake of your other horses. Get the vet out to find out what is really wrong with this horse.
> 
> The only thing they check at the inspection stations here in Florida crossing county lines is a Coggins.


She did have a coggins test and didn't have it. 

She is completely separate from my other horses all ready so that she wouldn't give them anything from where she was anyways. 

I will be having my vet out within the next two weeks depending on his schedule.


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

And even though they wormed her, different wormers work on specific worms. This is why people rotate wormers. If that was the first time she was wormed, maybe ask your vet to do a fecal while he is there. 

I am glad she is separated from your other horses.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

aldebono said:


> And even though they wormed her, different wormers work on specific worms. This is why people rotate wormers. If that was the first time she was wormed, maybe ask your vet to do a fecal while he is there.
> 
> I am glad she is separated from your other horses.


That is a good idea, I will have him do that!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Where in the neck is the hole?


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Where in the neck is the hole?


It is near her throat latch kind of next to her jaw on the left side. I believe it is near the lymph nodes?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sounds more like she has/was being treated for strangles.... You need to have her seen by a vet ASAP.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Sounds more like she has/was being treated for strangles.... You need to have her seen by a vet ASAP.


 
Exactly what I was thinking.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Sounds more like she has/was being treated for strangles.... You need to have her seen by a vet ASAP.


Also what I was wondering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That's why I asked where the hole was... Strangles is not something you want to deal with. At this point if I were you Tara, I would treating her like she had strangles and disinfecting the crap out of everything. it may already be too late if you were handling her and then were handling your other horses.

Either way this is something that, IMPO, needs a vet like yesterday...


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Sounds more like she has/was being treated for strangles.... You need to have her seen by a vet ASAP.


I had thought that too but I would have thought that if she had it they would have never let her cross state lines? They told me she was fine and I just had to clean her neck every night. Her owners also were very strict on when I could get her and she hasn't showed any signs of being physically sick.

What are other symptoms of Strangles? I've never had a horse with it.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It depends on if she was actually inspected by someone who knows what they are looking at or just looked at to see if she matched the paper work...

Strangles (also known as horse distemper)


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> That's why I asked where the hole was... Strangles is not something you want to deal with. At this point if I were you Tara, I would treating her like she had strangles and disinfecting the crap out of everything. it may already be too late if you were handling her and then were handling your other horses.
> 
> Either way this is something that, IMPO, needs a vet like yesterday...


She had a vet to see her multiple times before I got her and the people I got her from are honest people.. It just doesn't seem like they would let me take her so soon if she had strangles..


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

A coggins and brand inspection are not a health certificate and therefore require nothing more than visual inspection (and a blood test). If the filly did have a health certificate done, usually all that consists of is matching a horse with the coggins, quick visual, heart rate and temperature. This may have been done quickly enough that the strangles was missed, or what might be more likely is that strangles is not a reportable disease meaning that the vet might not even have to note it on the paperwork.

I checked oregon's import requirements, and they only list negative coggins, health and permit #, so the horse could easily enter with strangles. 

Strangles isn't the end of the world, BUT it is an absolute responsibility that you/the barn needs to practice good management and sanitation to prevent spread and end the incubation.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I think you need to get your vet out NOW and have her tested. Maybe they were honest people who weren't quite knowledgeable about how diseases spread, or maybe they weren't honest people after all. Either way, if she was exposed to strangles your other horses are at extreme risk, and while it's not the end of the world it IS something to deal with quickly, for the sake of your animals.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

CCH said:


> A coggins and brand inspection are not a health certificate and therefore require nothing more than visual inspection (and a blood test). If the filly did have a health certificate done, usually all that consists of is matching a horse with the coggins, quick visual, heart rate and temperature. This may have been done quickly enough that the strangles was missed, or what might be more likely is that strangles is not a reportable disease meaning that the vet might not even have to note it on the paperwork.
> 
> I checked oregon's import requirements, and they only list negative coggins, health and permit #, so the horse could easily enter with strangles.
> 
> Strangles isn't the end of the world, BUT it is an absolute responsibility that you/the barn needs to practice good management and sanitation to prevent spread and end the incubation.


She did have all of that, but it took her a while to get the health certificate because the vet wasn't sure about her so they waited till she was better to let me take her. She came from a ranch in Washington and none of their other horses had strangles so I'm not sure how she could have gotten it?

I just emailed her breeder to check and see what their vet had said about Scarlett and I mentioned Strangles so I will let you all know once I get a reply back from that as well.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

If the vet wasn't sure about her at first that is a huge red flag. I would have found my own vet out there to go inspect the horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

How do you honestly know that none of the other horses had anything? The swollen/discharge one you mentioned earlier could very well have been as well.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> If the vet wasn't sure about her at first that is a huge red flag. I would have found my own vet out there to go inspect the horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well they had 2 fillies that they didn't pass right away, and Scarlett was the lesser sick ish one. The other one they let go away quickly and Scarlett had to wait another week (only because she was just weaned) and then they let me get her..I still say there must be something fishy here because I don't think they would let me take home a horse that had strangles... I'm 16 and won a horse... I would they should know better?

They are definitely knowledgeable enough to know what strangles is too. They have over 30 broodmares and have been breeding for years.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> How do you honestly know that none of the other horses had anything? The swollen/discharge one you mentioned earlier could very well have been as well.


because with her last time I talked to them they were sure it was a genetic disease with her full sister having the same sickness several years earlier and they didn't have any other sick horses. If they did have strangles they would have had them more secluded from all their other horses instead of being right next to them...They aren't stupid people.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

I am sorry this is happening to you, but regardless of what the breeders say it is better to be safe and have the vet check. You'll feel better knowing for sure what it is and if it is something serious than you'll be able to deal with it.
Its entirely possible the breeders and thei vet missed something. Or she's regressing.. babies can go down fast, always better to be safe rather than sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

Drifting said:


> I am sorry this is happening to you, but regardless of what the breeders say it is better to be safe and have the vet check. You'll feel better knowing for sure what it is and if it is something serious than you'll be able to deal with it.
> Its entirely possible the breeders and thei vet missed something. Or she's regressing.. babies can go down fast, always better to be safe rather than sorry.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you... I am having my vet over asap it just depends on when he is available, today or tomorrow.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Strangles can live on the fencing for over 6 months and some horses can be carriers and show no signs of the illness. To me it sounds like the ranch is infected with Strangles, foals and older horses are more susceptible to it. Strangles isn't the end of the world and most vet will not give antibiotics for it at certain stages because it can lead to another more serious form of the disease which can cause the lesions on internal organs, usually once the lesions pop it is treated with keeping the lesions clean.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Definitely sounds like strangles to me. Swollen head and discharge in one filly, discharge and a drainage hole in the other. I would be calling my vet out asap, and I would also be penning a fairly unhappy letter to the previous owner.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

I hope its nothing serious! But I'm glad your getting your vet out soon. 

If it is strangles, alert the breeder and if you have the info for the vet that did the health certificate I would tell them too. Also, you can ask your vet, but there may be a requirement to alert the state health department (I may have that department wrong, maybe agricultural department?) I would also go to the AQHA, specifically those who did the raffle, and let them know about it but only if it is strangles (or something else of that nature.) Wait until you know what it is though. I'd be unhappy with the breeder for sending a sick foal, my weanling was sent with warts but she warned me ahead of time and I had the option of waiting for them to go away.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Some breeders, feel that strangles is no big deal when in reality it is...


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

Drifting said:


> I hope its nothing serious! But I'm glad your getting your vet out soon.
> 
> If it is strangles, alert the breeder and if you have the info for the vet that did the health certificate I would tell them too. Also, you can ask your vet, but there may be a requirement to alert the state health department (I may have that department wrong, maybe agricultural department?) I would also go to the AQHA, specifically those who did the raffle, and let them know about it but only if it is strangles (or something else of that nature.) Wait until you know what it is though. I'd be unhappy with the breeder for sending a sick foal, my weanling was sent with warts but she warned me ahead of time and I had the option of waiting for them to go away.


Thanks for letting me know! I will do all of the above! I had the option of waiting to get her till she was perfectly well, but they didn't tell me it was strangles or anything about what she had except that there was discharge (and I was impatient and ready to have my baby with me!) I will let her breeder know, but I won't complain because I knew she wasn't in the perfect health and I'm still very grateful to have her and I'm praying that strangles is not what she has!


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Just wait until the vet says it's strangles for sure, or until you know exactly what it is. A lot of people don't take kindly to being told something like that came out of their stock (even if they did know about it.) So wait till you have the proof of it.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

The breeder just emailed me back and this is what she said:

They thought it could be pigeon fever, but that usually doesn't last that long and it was unclear where it would have come from. There was an outbreak in Yakima and in OR and it is transported by flies, but both places are at least 80 miles from us. Do keep in mind that we have outside mares in that we breed in the spring, but none showed any signs of any sickness. Dime(the other filly) is still sick. We now have her on a new med. We have a consult on her and are trying biomicin. The facebook picture of you two is cute. Keep us in the loop. If there are any ideas on your end, we would love to hear about what anyone thinks it is. 

My gramma said my vet is pretty busy this week but we are trying to get him here by Friday


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

TaraBearaIsBack said:


> The breeder just emailed me back and this is what she said:
> 
> They thought it could be pigeon fever, but that usually doesn't last that long and it was unclear where it would have come from. There was an outbreak in Yakima and in OR and it is transported by flies, but both places are at least 80 miles from us. Do keep in mind that we have outside mares in that we breed in the spring, but none showed any signs of any sickness. Dime(the other filly) is still sick. We now have her on a new med. We have a consult on her and are trying biomicin. The facebook picture of you two is cute. Keep us in the loop. If there are any ideas on your end, we would love to hear about what anyone thinks it is.
> 
> My gramma said my vet is pretty busy this week but we are trying to get him here by Friday


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't pigeon fever as bad or worse than strangles? 

It is very possible and with this new info I would make my vet come out tomorrow. And be very, very ****ed this wasn't disclosed of ahead of time. They told you she had discharge but never mentioned the severity of it.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't know if its worse, I just did a quick google search and I came up with results that it came from the breast area, not where they'd put a hole in the neck. Poor little baby, I hope the vet can come out soon.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Drifting said:


> I don't know if its worse, I just did a quick google search and I came up with results that it came from the breast area, not where they'd put a hole in the neck. Poor little baby, I hope the vet can come out soon.


I just remember a member here had a very hard time when her whole herd came down with it. I think her screename was Dee.

I remember it took a long time to get all her horses back to health. I don't know much about it since I've never heard of it around me.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Someone correct me if I'm wrong but isn't pigeon fever as bad or worse than strangles?
> 
> It is very possible and with this new info I would make my vet come out tomorrow. And be very, very ****ed this wasn't disclosed of ahead of time. They told you she had discharge but never mentioned the severity of it.


I think it is but I don't think it is a big deal they didn't tell me because they must have ruled it out. I'm having my vet out as soon as he can. Hopefully tonight.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

TaraBearaIsBack said:


> I think it is but I don't think it is a big deal they didn't tell me because they must have ruled it out. I'm having my vet out as soon as he can. Hopefully tonight.


Sorry but at this point I wouldn't trust a word they said. You're 16 and a little naive, you want to trust these people and see the best in them but the hard truth is many people lie especially when getting rid of a horse. 

Get your vet out and have them rule anything out. At this point you can't rule any diseases out because they said she didn't have them.

I hope for you this is nothing serious but unfortunately people aren't always truthful.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

The strange thing about all of this now though, is that she hasn't shown any signs of being SICK. Other than the discharge nothing is wrong with her. She's perfectly happy, eats a lot, drinks a lot, has normal poop, has no temperature, never complains about any thing or show signs of pain, or anything!


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Subbing...


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

That's good! And hopefully it means your horse is healthy or getting healthy _but_ especially with the drainage hole I would get the vet out SOON, not next week, not in two weeks, explain the situation, explain the potential diseases and insist that it is important your vet come out and see the horse. 
It's really good that she seems healthy, and you want to keep her that way, right? It's best to keep on top of it, rather than wait and wait for a convenient time for the vet, and then find out that because you weren't on top of what was potentially wrong with her that she has gotten sick again.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Sorry but at this point I wouldn't trust a word they said. You're 16 and a little naive, you want to trust these people and see the best in them but the hard truth is many people lie especially when getting rid of a horse.
> 
> Get your vet out and have them rule anything out. At this point you can't rule any diseases out because they said she didn't have them.
> 
> I hope for you this is nothing serious but unfortunately people aren't always truthful.


I can understand not trusting someone who has lied to you and yes I can be naive and I don't have the experience or knowledge about sick horses or rare diseases other than colic basically but I know I can trust these people because they weren't even trying to get rid of her; I was being impatient and wanted her faster (waiting 1 month was long enough for me) and I didn't even buy her or give them any money for her, they gave her to me (I picked her out and she wasn't sick then) And she told me I had to keep her on Quarantine when I brought her home and I have but I didn't think much about it being a big deal.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

hope you find out whats wrong with your new filly pigeon fever isnt good and strangles is highly contagious. As far as trusting the breeders of this filly i wouldnt they have already covered up a possible serious dease. I hate too say this but horse people are sometimes less then honest. Hope all turns out well for your filly let us know what you find out after the vet comes out.


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

I would worry about what she is sick with NOW and what she could be carrying.

I really understand and encourage quarantine. I do it with all my animals. But, is it odd that the breeder said you had to keep her in QT when you got home?

I would be very hesitant to buy an animals that told me that at purchase.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Pigeon Fever is not a big deal unless you are trying to keep a horse in show condition or fitted for a sale or something like that. Once in a great while, one will get internal abscesses, but very few do. We had our first cases of it this year because of the drought. The horses got over it just fine. There is no vaccine and no treatment is recommended unless a horse gets complications. When I had my first one this year, I called my Vet and he said my horse was the 12th one he had that week. We had never had it around here before 2011. 

Strangles is a lot worse.

If she is feeling good and eating good, I would not be real worried about her. I would just be very careful handling her and then handling other horses. You will spread anything like Strangles to other horses.

I would get a thermometer and keep it for your horses. Take her temperature. If she has any elevated temperature at all, I would ask your Vet if he will give you some SMZ pills. That is what my Vet would do. Ten days on SMZs will clear up most chronic snotty noses and will keep them from getting worse (like pneumonia). Horses usually eat them mixed in feed.


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

TaraBearaIsBack said:


> The strange thing about all of this now though, is that she hasn't shown any signs of being SICK. Other than the discharge nothing is wrong with her. She's perfectly happy, eats a lot, drinks a lot, has normal poop, has no temperature, never complains about any thing or show signs of pain, or anything!


"Hasn't shown any signs of being sick" really isn't true. You have no baseline for this foal to determine what her normal temperature and bodily functions are. For temperature monitoring, you need to do it at least 2x per day to start a chart. You also really haven't had her long enough to know what might be her normal level of eating, drinking, pooping, and activity. She probably also has swollen lymph nodes and maybe even some altered lung sounds that you can't detect without knowing how to check them.

Pigeon fever and strangles are different enough in *almost all normal presentations* to be easily differentiated between. If there was any question as to choosing between the two, a simple culture would have a result in about 24hrs.

If this breeder has another horse(s) with lingering symptoms it is because it is being treated improperly or becoming reinfected. 

As has been said, have the vet out (which you're already working on) ask questions, have him give you written instructions for care and follow them. I would forget about the breeder, this is your horse and your responsibility. Take it as an excellent time to learn and develop a good relationship with your vet. Be happy that this illness is treatable and not your fault, but use what you learn to protect the other horses on the property too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Subbing and hoping for good news


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Is this filly on your own property or do you board? If you board you could be opening yourself up to a lawsuit if your filly infects the barn, considering you knowingly brought a sick filly onto the premises.

If you don't board, I'd still be concerned about any other horses on the property.

There was a strangles outbreak at the barn I board at awhile ago. Vet bills totaled over $10,000 and four horses died. The people who sold the horse knew it had been exposed to strangles and didn't disclose that information prior to the purchase/transfer of the horse. There was a lawsuit as a result.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

If four horses died, they needed a different Vet. There is no good excuse for that no matter how bad the strain of Strep is.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Cherie that is so not true. So very not true. Strangles can be so complicated more so when it ends up as ******* strangles.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

I don't know too many details because this was before I boarded there... I don't think the horse vets in the area are the best, though, nor do I think they are the worst. *shrugs*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cowboy Ringo (Sep 17, 2012)

Horse jargon is different around the world as we all know, so i have a quick question (im sure i could google it, but im here already )
You all are referring to strangles. Would that also be known as Stemper? I have a feeling its pretty close to what most of you are talking about, and is very common around horse sales and is very contagious. 
Just curious.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I've never heard of stemper so I'm curious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have probably treated 30 or more cases of ******* Strangles with very serious internal abscesses. I have lost one and that was when I followed the ranch's Vet's directions (not our Vet). I had been asked to step into a ranch management position and handle a complete dispersal sale. The ranch had a full-blown Strangles epidemic going on when I got there. After I followed the Ranch Vet's directions and lost one of the sickest of the horses there, I called two of my Vet friends, one in Colorado that I had used for years when I lived there and one here in OK. After that, I handled the treatment of all of the others. I not only got the rest cleared up but got them fitted for the up-coming complete dispersal sale that had already been scheduled for less than 80 days away.

I have spent a lot of money treating ******* Strangles, but never lost another one after that incident. This includes horses with infected gutteral pouches and thoracic abscesses, abscesses in the abdomen, even abscesses under their tails and on their udders. I have treated some 'near death' horses that lost over 200#, but they all pulled through and came back to 100% of their previous health and use. I have learned more about Stretococcus Equi and Stretococcus Zooepidemicus that I wish I knew. 

The horses that I have known that other people have treated that died, were not treated quickly enough nor aggressively enough. There are times to leave strangles horses alone and there are times to treat them VERY aggressively and for a great length of time. Many Vets do not do this or they stop treating too soon (what happened to the horse we lost).

So, I will repeat -- "if four horses died, they needed a different Vet".

As a matter of fact, the last outbreak I had here on the ranch was brought in by a 'healthy' mare that came in to breed. She had been exposed but only a day or two before she was brought in (with a current health certificate). About a week later she got sick. I had 6 others that she exposed before her first symptoms appeared. I immediately moved all seven horses to a hayfield a quarter miles from any other horses. The outbreak was contained. 

I called her owner to tell him she was REALLY sick and asked him if he wanted me to have a Vet out or just doctor her with mine that I knew were going to get sick -- if she needed doctoring. He said all of his other horses had also gotten sick and was going to call me that day. It turned out a neighbor behind him (on a different road) had brought it in with a 'sale barn horse'. That guy ended up losing 3 horses. It was a particularly nasty strain and one that even hit some horses that had been vaccinated. 

I spent more money saving those horses and got a higher percentage of ******* Strangles (three out of seven) in that outbreak than I had ever gotten into before -- but they all lived and fully recovered, including the visiting mare. It cost me the most by costing me 2 breeding fees and 1 of the sickest mares was mine and I did not get her bred that year. The others were saddle mares running in that mare pasture. I kept that pasture empty until those mares were ready to go back into it. I did not add other mares to that pasture until at least 3 months after it was all over that fall.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Good for you!!!! Losing a horse is really bad, I mean it's bad enough to loose livestock, but to loose a "pet" livestock that you've spent time an money on is far worse.... Specially if you've found that "one"...


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Cherie said:


> I have probably treated 30 or more cases of ******* Strangles with very serious internal abscesses. I have lost one and that was when I followed the ranch's Vet's directions (not our Vet). I had been asked to step into a ranch management position and handle a complete dispersal sale. The ranch had a full-blown Strangles epidemic going on when I got there. After I followed the Ranch Vet's directions and lost one of the sickest of the horses there, I called two of my Vet friends, one in Colorado that I had used for years when I lived there and one here in OK. After that, I handled the treatment of all of the others. I not only got the rest cleared up but got them fitted for the up-coming complete dispersal sale that had already been scheduled for less than 80 days away.


Cherie - would you let us know what the directions were from these vets or what was different about them? How were the horses treated? I think everyone could benefit from this information as long as it is caveated with a "call your vet" type disclaimer.

I have only had one experience with strangles and have never had it at our place.
There was a horse at a show I was at a few years ago. It exhibited absolutely no signs of illness. I did not witness the illness as we had headed home, but late Sunday night he appeared colicy. When treatment didn't work, he was taken to a Vet school for further care. He died/was pts about 24 hours later. It was ******* strangles. Now of course every horse at that show could have been "exposed" so I put our place on lockdown and implemented biosecurity practices. None of mine fell ill and no other horse at the show that I know of became ill.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

nikelodeon79 said:


> Is this filly on your own property or do you board? If you board you could be opening yourself up to a lawsuit if your filly infects the barn, considering you knowingly brought a sick filly onto the premises.
> 
> If you don't board, I'd still be concerned about any other horses on the property.
> 
> ...


She's at my own barn and away from all other horses.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

I am having the vet out this afternoon as long as I can get a hold of him. Will let you all know what he says. He is a great vet.


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

Oh no I hope its not strangles. Every place that horse has been in contact with would be quarantined, Strangles his a HUGE deal ! And spreads very easily. 
About 15 years ago I had a friend that boarded a horse that brought in strangles. They had to burn all of thier tack, and the ground and bleached everything that couldn't be burned. Nothing was allowed to enter or leave the property. It is very serious.


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Subbing. Hoping it's nothing too serious! I have a 7-month old AQHA baby coming home tomorrow so this thread made me nervous... I'm glad my vet is checking him on Monday.


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## Tiamo (Oct 16, 2012)

No real info to add just hoping she's alright. Something sure sounds "off"


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I can't wait to hear what this vet says. Everything you told us points toward strangles. Many/most horses make it through without issue. The ones that are most at risk are the very young and very old. Horses that are not in good condition also could parish from such an illness. Most young (not babies) healthy horses make it through without issue. The danger of it is that it is so contagious. You could touch an infected horse or just touch something that someone else touched after touching them and then spread it to the next horse. Many barns will do full quarantine if they suspect it.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

You should be taking her temperature. I do not know why anyone would tell you that it was not relevant, but it is your best indicator of how sick a horse is. If it was not relevant, it would not be the very first thing most Vets do when they examine a horse.

If a horse has a temperature of 103 or 104, it is a sick puppy and the Vet call should be an emergency call. I have seen horses just getting Strangles or the Flu and having a temperature of 104 or even 105.

If a horse has the snots and a low-grade temp of 101 or 102, they will probably get over it on their own. Giving them an oral antibiotic like SMZs might hurry it up. I prefer not to if the horse actually had a confirmed Strep infection or if the horse is eating good.

The craziest thing I ever heard of is someone making people burn their tack when there was a Strangles outbreak in the barn. There are a lot of old wives' tales about Strangles and that this bacteria can live a long time outside of the body is one of them that is just plain silly and untrue.

The Strep bacteria that causes Strangles does not live very long outside of a horse's body. It is in largest quantity in the slimy snot and drools you see early in in the course of the infection or in pus from a ruptured abscess. It is not airborne very far (like the flu virus is) and does not stay on dry surfaces very long. 

I have managed to contain Strangles outbreaks several times. I had it go through 1 barn out of 3 where I lost the one horse. We put different horses in those stalls about 2 weeks after the sick horses cleared up and none of those horses got it. The horses in the other barns only a few feet away did not get it. 

When it was over, I sprayed a Clorox solution on the feed tubs, automatic waterers and on the bare floor before re-bedding the stalls. I dipped halters and lead-ropes in a Clorox solution and wiped off any bits that I thought a horse might have worn while it was incubating the bacteria. 

I always doctor sick horses at the end of the day when I am not going to handle any more horses. I walk through a pan with a Clorox solution in it after I go in the stalls of the sick ones or walk out in the field where I have been doctoring them. People and dogs spread more Strep bacteria with their feet when they step in recently dropped pus and drools. You can spread it on coats and jeans if you are negligent and let horses rub snot or pus on them. I have managed to avoid that, too. When we have had outbreaks, we penned up dogs until it was cleared up. 

Once the high fever is over and any abscesses have finished draining, they are not very infective. Occasionally, you get an unapparent carrier. They can still spread it in water and feed troughs or with nose to nose contact. They are not real infective but can spread it with shared nasal discharges and slobbers. All in all -- it is very similar to Strep Throat infections in people. You also occasionally get 'carriers' in a family or a school that just keep giving other people a strep infections without showing symptoms themselves.

It is just not some great mystery -- like -- say Neurological EVH-1 is. That crap scares me to death.

I have other stuff to do now, but will come back to this some time tomorrow and go through how we doctor Strangles and how we decide which ones need to be put on antibiotics and when it is safe to take them off.

This weanling may very well have or be getting over Strangles, but my first 'gut instincts' tell me it is more likely the fall 'baby snots' that are so prevalent at weaning time in foals. I would worry a lot more if she was not eating or drinking.

At any rate, you should be taking her temperature AM and PM so you can see if she is VERY sick and if she is getting better or worse.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm mainly subbing because I have nothing decent to add :lol:

But, my mare was the same for aaaages, like a few months. I had one vet come out and see her and said she wasn't contagious and it was nothing to worry about (the snot).
A little while later I had a second vet come in (the best local equine vet here) and he suggested drilling a hole up into the nasal cavity because the shape of the nasal cavity having a pouch type area that doesn't drain well. Vet said my horses case was having a foreign object up her nose and it wouldn't drain well because of the pouch, which is why he wanted to drill a hole into her nasal cavity.. But this was a horse that had no way of catching strangles where she was.


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## petitepyromaniac (Oct 12, 2010)

Oh the suspense... WHAT DID THE VET SAY???


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Yes, tell us please?


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Anxious as to what the vet said...


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

My colt when he was 6 months old got strangles, and i was sooo worried about him. I could not separate him from the herd at that time, because i had no where to put him. I caught it in its first stages, and right away i called my vet and she was out that evening, and she gave me antibiotics for 2 weeks. He was a mess, nasty snotty nose and had some difficulty breathing because of mucus build up his temp at that time was 105. I cleaned and treated him everyday twice a day (or more if needed). I was surprised to see him come through in the two weeks. None of the rest of the herd contracted it. They have been exposed, but no one has shown any signs of anything since his out break. I'll tell ya what, it was a long two weeks.....
Best of luck to you!


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## Crescent (May 2, 2012)

subbing


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

At this point I doubt the op has called the vet or had her filly checked. I know she is being exposed to other horses and lunged on a regular basis which is so hard on a young horse as well as it sounds like she's locked in a stall... As to where I got the info? The op herself from her blog that is confidently linked in her signature...


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## Tiamo (Oct 16, 2012)

wow took a look at her blog, not a word about the vet there either. I know everyones different but lunging before the age of one seems a bit much.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Ugh... I don't even know what to say to that... I know AQHA likes to do their lunge line futurities, however they are yearlings. Not weanlings *sigh*


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry it took so long, we had trouble getting a hold of our vet and finally he came out tonight, and we have nothing to worry about! It definitely wasn't strangles, the hole in her neck was in the wrong place if it were to have been that. I am not positive on all the words he used but he said that what probably happened (which he'd seen before) was that a brier patch nearby either poked her or she tried to eat it and it got her 'gutteral' pocket(or gland, I don't remember the word he used) go infected and it wasn't a big deal because it is healing well. He said that it happened to a horse he worked on and a 9-inch piece got stuck in the horse's eustational (again, I don't know spelling) tube and their head swelled up and had discharge coming out and such. She isn't sick or contagious and she also got her 5 way shot while he was here so she's doing well! Thank you all for your concern and advice! I'm relieved I don't have to worry about Scarlett too much about being sick, but I am glad that I got to learn so much here about Strangles and horse sickness! If you want to check up on her any time I have a blog about her that I have the link to in my signature! Thank you all!


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

Tiamo said:


> wow took a look at her blog, not a word about the vet there either. I know everyones different but lunging before the age of one seems a bit much.


I don't lunge her often, I've basically taught her to do it so she can run for a while because she is inside a lot. I haven't let her break a sweat either.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> At this point I doubt the op has called the vet or had her filly checked. I know she is being exposed to other horses and lunged on a regular basis which is so hard on a young horse as well as it sounds like she's locked in a stall... As to where I got the info? The op herself from her blog that is confidently linked in her signature...


Well I had called my vet every day this week (minus thanksgiving) and he was unable to come until this evening and turns out I had nothing to worry about and she is completely healthy and was never contagious. I don't lunge her for more than ten minutes at a time and she was exposed to one other horse but that was before I knew anything might be really wrong with her and that stopped as soon as I found out and she was fine in the mean time. And when I lunge her it never has been more running than she would have if she was able to go outside; basically I let her run as much as she wants just keeping it in a circle and when she slows down we are done.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

TaraBearaIsBack said:


> Well I had called my vet every day this week (minus thanksgiving) and he was unable to come until this evening and turns out I had nothing to worry about and she is completely healthy and was never contagious. I don't lunge her for more than ten minutes at a time and she was exposed to one other horse but that was before I knew anything might be really wrong with her and that stopped as soon as I found out and she was fine in the mean time. And when I lunge her it never has been more running than she would have if she was able to go outside; basically I let her run as much as she wants just keeping it in a circle and when she slows down we are done.


It's the circle part of lunging that causes the biggest issues for youngsters. She doesn't have the coordination yet to be able to carry herself correctly in a circle for that long. This will wear excessively on her underdeveloped joints. It has nothing to do with how fast or how long you let her run for, it's the actual physics of lunging that is the problem.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> It's the circle part of lunging that causes the biggest issues for youngsters. She doesn't have the coordination yet to be able to carry herself correctly in a circle for that long. This will wear excessively on her underdeveloped joints. It has nothing to do with how fast or how long you let her run for, it's the actual physics of lunging that is the problem.


Okay, thank you for that! That is good information to know and I will be very careful with her! Thank you for telling me why it isn't good for her instead of just telling me I am doing something wrong! It was helpful and I'll remember it!


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## Tiamo (Oct 16, 2012)

Lungeing is really bad for her joints, it be much better to just let her loose in the arena for some turn out time. If you can get her turned out outside all the better. Much healthier for a horse to get fresh air. What about hand walking her outside or hand grazing if you have grass


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Lunging, no matter how big the circle is causes joint damage to the point that you will have a lame filly by the time she is 2. And when I say lame, I mean never able to even be ridden because her joints will be so worn out and she will be so full of arthritis. 

Why does she not get any turn out time? At that age she should be pretty much living outside until the weather is to bad. And even then most of the breeding barns I worked at the foals lived outside until they were ready to start being worked. And I am in Canada. 

At her age she should be able to be hand walked, maybe trotting in hand, learn to square up. You can start introducing her to things like tarps, bridges and just about anything that horses would be scared of. Doing all of this at a young age prepares them for when they are older. Plus it gives you something to do with her that is not hard on her and lets you bond with her. The more scary things you introduce her to now, the better. So when it comes time to take her to a horse show she will know that these things will not eat her. Also umbrellas! Best one. I've seen so many horses spook at a show from someone opening an umbrella.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

NB I believe she's not outside because she's in quarantine for now.
I agree completely with just letting her play in the arena full size - I personally never lunge my horses xD They get taught to lunge walk/trot then never do it again. It's no good for their joints even in adult horses, but adults can handle walk/trot IMO. I wold never canter or run a horse on a lunge line for any reason, if they spook and do go faster I reel them in and bring them back immediately. 

We had a pony at our rescue who was lunged young, often and fast. He was used for pony parties on a hot walker. Unfortunately they only lunged him in one direction, his spine became curved, his inside hind leg's tendons were shortened. He was 20 by the time we got him. He was never sound, but he was comfortable so we kept him as a buddy for out blind horse as we knew this horse could never hurt him. At the end of his life, when he lost a whole pile of weight and muscle tone with old age he became severely more lame. We had no idea why, nothing was new or different, but he could no longer pick himself up anymore. So we stayed with him 24/7 when he wanted to lay down we'd put his harness on and lay him down, when he wanted to get up we'd hoist him up again. We thought this was temporary, finally the vet showed up (it was only a day or two after it had really gotten bad). They took x-rays and we realized all his life his hip had been dislocated but the muscle had held him together and made it so he could walk, the vet told us outside of serious surgery and a great deal of pain/rehab there would have been nothing else we could have done for him when we got him anyway. At that point they said all they could do was euthanize him. We did later that week. This is why I detest circles, I know he was an extreme, but with my horses I'll go to the opposite extreme if I must.


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## TaraBearaIsBack (Oct 12, 2012)

She is outside as often as it is nice enough for her to be outside. When I lunge her, which is very infrequent, y'all can check my blog, it's so she can stretch her legs for a few minutes and at first just to train her to. I haven't lunged her for over a week now.

By the way, I have to get her fit for halter shows in February, how would you all recommend me getting her in shape for that instead of lunging her?


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Have you taught her how to line-drive in a halter yet? This skill will prove useful for when you back her. It's far less stressful than lunging and more mentally stimulating than just running in circles. Bring her over ground poles and tarps and other things to desensitize to. 
As for getting her fit... She's 7 months old just leave her be. This would be like a toddler being made to run laps. Fun at first but then it becomes stressful and even painful.

There are so many vital skills a foal can and should learn at 7 months, lunging is just not one of them, unless you want early arthritis and an early retirement.
Everyone gets so in a rush to use their horses young but then they're used up even younger and can't be ridden past their 20s and have no place to go. I've got a rescue full of those horses. Particularly a halter arabian who was mostly crippled before she was 2 but still taken through the riding circuit until there was nothing left on her that works.

Now i know that i'm a bit biased but i would drop the lunging until the horse is full grown you're doing more damage than good. Check out the other forums on'ehat to do with a foal' i've written lists of the hundreds of skills and games foals should/could learn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## petitepyromaniac (Oct 12, 2010)

PunksTank said:


> . Check out the other forums on'ehat to do with a foal' i've written lists of the hundreds of skills and games foals should/could learn.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do you have any links? I'd be interested in checking out your lists (and any other good ideas) for my own colt. Thanks!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Here's a quote from the last list I wrote, I'm sure there's more but this was what I thought of in 5 minutes 


PunksTank said:


> There is SO much you can teach this blank little slate!!
> Babies are wonderful because there's nothing to unteach, just teach :grin:
> 
> Once she knows the basic ground work skills:
> ...


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Thanks for asking, petite! You read my mind. And thanks for the great ideas, Punkstank. Will be using these myself with Rebel.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Ahh your pony's name is Rebel too xD I just changed mine's from Rebel to Riot - rebel just didn't fit and I wasn't using it enough ^^ Great name choice though!


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Thanks! He's actually going to be my husband's riding horse when he's old enough, so I let him name him. His great grandfather owned a sorrel named Rebel and the two were inseparable. So it's kinda a tribute to the first "Rebel" in the family.  Anyway, my apologies for hijacking the thread. Back to our regularly scheduled discussion...


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