# Oylmpic Show jumpers



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Really? 

Is that why Rich Fellers won the World Cup this year? 
Why McLain Ward has won two Olympic gold medals? 
Why Breezie is the first female to win more than $1m?
And why Reed is the youngest ever US Olympic equestrian? 

There are certainly different styles of riding, however to say the US team were an embarrassment shows that you really don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## eliduc (Apr 5, 2010)

*The history*

No, that's why the United States, the most resourceful nation in the world is in 7th place instead of say, a respectful third place. One more rolled pole and they would have been out of it. "As a team I wish we were in little better position..." (Rich Fellers) In 21 Olympics the U.S. team has won 3 gold medals. The 2004 medal was by virtue of the disqualification of Germany who had won the gold medal but had it taken away. Individually, the United States has only won 2 gold medals; Joe Fargis on the little thoroughbred mare Touch of Class in 1984 and William Steinkraus 1n 1968. Individually the U.S. has not scored an individual first place in 28 years and only two in 108 years. I don't call that being very competitive on an International scale as compared to say
Germany who has won 8 team gold medals.


----------



## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

*Isnt it great when americans cheer for their country and when its not going as good they say america sucks. dont like america move simple as that. You get on a horse at that level lets see how you do jumping such a course. Its not easy and to sit at a computer bashing our own country because we are not in the top 3 is down right retarded if you ask me. The horses no matter what country are under extreme stress and jumping a course under such pressure your not going to have all horses in perfect form and whos to say all those ones your saying are flexed and responding are not doped up. Hense the reason a certain country (Not Ours) was disqualified. *
*Personally it ****es me off when someone bashes our country and they are from our country.*
* Support no matter what the outcome is. They are doing their best. God bless the riders of the USA!!*
*JMHO*

*TRR*


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

You need to grow up and stop crying cause your team is not in the lead 
all these teams are under pressure and are doing a wonderful job 
I cheer for all the teams


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

Country Woman;n stop crying cause your team is not in the lead
all these teams are under pressure and are doing a wonderful job
I cheer for all the teams[/QUOTE said:


> hope you are ok


----------



## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

How many teams are competing? 7th is pretty good of there is like 30 teams.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Since liberal in-the-tank NBC is punishing Ann Romney's horse "Rafalco"--doesn't she share ownership with 2 other people?!?--they aren't showing ANY equestrian live this year, unlike previous Olympics, just a stupid 30 second blip here or there. Heck, I saw more of the field in Greenwich on TWC when Jim Cantore was showing off the Greenwich Mean Team display!!! Yeah, they're streaming, but I still like to tivo my Olympics, anyway. Soooo...I'm getting my news elsewhere, and there's Brit show on HRTV that has been at LEAST giving me the placements and an honest appraisal of things, so far. ANYWAY, their observation is that the German horses (ALL 3 Olympics disciplines) are excelling bc *the horses are more confident than any other teams.* There was a discussion of a jump with lions that had many horses spooked, for instance. It's some food for thought, at least.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Corp, they just repeated the showjumping from this morning on NBC, I just finished watching it. And they showed about 4 hours of the cross country. It is being shown, you just have to get lucky and know when.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks, AlexS!! I've got ALL of the Olympics scheduled to tape, so I'll watch it tonight. WOW--give some _crumbs_ to the hungry!! STILL, don't see why they didn't just show X-country in the middle of the night on ONE of the 5 NBC cable/satellite channels. I saw more of it in 1992 from LA, when they didn't have all of the resources.


----------



## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

my 2 cents.. jumping at this level is amazing! the size, the series of jumps on such limited numbers of strides, the number of water jumps, and a straight away causing the horses to see the crowd with tricky turns and no one (that I saw) refused or came off..simply an incredible job from all countries represented


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You make it sound as if the USA team came over here for a holiday! 
Until you realise that no matter what training you give a horse, no matter what experience they have, it does not always go to plan.

Germany, who were favourites came = 10th and teams with greater experience were beaten by 'lesser' nations. That is what is called sport.

That said, you have to realise that the vibes sent out by us Brits kept the rails up for the winning team and un-glued for all others!


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't think it was vibes for the Brits, they rode outstandingly.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You sneaky Brits!! As cunning as "The Black Adder!!"


----------



## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> That said, you have to realise that the vibes sent out by us Brits kept the rails up for the winning team and un-glued for all others!


haha on the vibes ...I agree with Corp & Alex their riding was amazing..the young rider from Scotland made me breathless....but just saw the medal ceremony..what no medals for the horses ) lol


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I find that rounded horses are the exception not the rule in show jumping these days. It isn't just the American team that has hollow, rushy horses. And horses like that can certainly still win. We'll just have to wait and see if they come down with back issues later in life.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I guess I must be the odd man out. It doesn't surprise me that Britain would be better in this sport than the US...it is more of a tradition there and on the continent - no different than the US excelling at baseball or basketball...


----------



## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

^^^ i have to agree with that. at least where im at (four corners) any kind of english/jumping/dressage is like non-existant. its not as popular and i hardly ever hear about it....even my horsey friends here that are from all over the U.S. of A hardly deal with it, so im not suprised that other countrys would be doing better....jmho not saying that 'mericans are crappy riders, just that its not as popular here, bad horsemanship is present everywhere. but people rooting for their home countries are gonna be biased (good and bad) towards their own.


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I think everyone rode to the best of their ability 
I am enjoying the event


----------



## eliduc (Apr 5, 2010)

What I was getting at, and maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that the Americans tried to reinvent the jumping style decades ago and that jumping was greatly influenced by the likes of George Morris for over fifty years. While the U.S. teams have consistently been in the top ten it cannot be said that we have been consistent winners in the top three. Why is that? We have the best of horses and our riders are not lacking in competitiveness or grit. Is it that an elite few decided that the Germans and the Swiss and the French were all doing it wrong and we could do it better by reinventing the wheel? But the Germans and the Swiss and the French continued winning. Granted, you would never have caught me on one of those horses. I'm afraid of heights. However, when we watch a high level competition we are comparing horsemanship and when I see a rider jerking a horse in the mouth around a turn and the horses are going hollow backed and throwing their heads around then I am unimpressed by the level of the horsemanship. The British horses were quite different in comparison and consistency. There are times when you just have to admit that the other side was better and deserved to win. In reply to Timberline, if it would be unpatriotic to discuss why an American team did not win you would have to take ESPN off the networks. This is a horse forum where people (are supposed to) have intelligent discussions about horses and riders not b.s. politics. In your misguided patriotic zeal what you are advocating is the violation of first amendment rights of free speech. I realize that I have tramped on some people's holy ground and expected some impassioned replies which is fine. Superficial, personal insults are generally....well, shallow and without intellectual value.


----------



## kaykat31 (Feb 15, 2009)

Honestly, the US did quite well, and you don't really have any right to be bad mouthing them. Reed Kessler is quite young, and hasn't had Cylana _that_ long, and her inexperience did get her in some places(such as the loosing a stirrup & getting a little discombobulated about it, causing a rail). I would have picked Margie Engle to go instead, had it been my pick. This was Beezie's first Olympics on Via Volo, who is still quite young, and I'm not really sure that Via Volo was completely ready to go to the Olympics, but it's Beezie freaking Madden, so why wouldn't we send her? Flexible is amazing and performed great, today I believe he was just a tad tired, I don't blame him, showing in a huge ring at 1.60m for 3 days in a row w/o any medication is HARD. McLain & Antares F didn't do terrible either. The Europeans are also the ones that started the WB's, they aren't stupid & would not & do not sell their top horses(even as foals) to the US, the US more so has to get lucky with what we get & train them to top potential, which we have been successful with in the past. Oh & atleast my experience with German riders(I've only delt with men) is that they are big, and scary, and that is why it does not surprise me that their horses perform excellently, but IMO one of the female German riders should maybe learn alittle more respect for the Olympic Games & maybe tuck her hair in her helmet next time... I'm not 100% thrilled with how the US team ended up this year, but they still did an amazing job.


----------



## eliduc (Apr 5, 2010)

KayKat, yo accused me of badmouthing the team which I did not do individually or personally and then you ripped every member. Lost a stirrup. Too young. Had the wrong horse etc. So, your criticism is ok but mine isn't?


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I think Reed is a very good rider and i have seen her ride as Spruce Meadows 
in Calgary AB


----------



## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

UGH. I agree. Beezie SUCKS. What a piece of crap horse. Why don't you show us a video of you riding so we can see what "real" rider is supposed to look like??


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

upnover said:


> UGH. I agree. Beezie SUCKS. What a piece of crap horse. Why don't you show us a video of you riding so we can see what "real" rider is supposed to look like??


 I agree with this 
Beezie does not suck, could it be you are jealous cause you are not there 
stop dissing the horses and riders


----------



## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

And I don't see KayKat's response as badmouthing. She was just explaining why she thought we didn't medal like we have in the past. which is interesting why we would medal if our forward system has gotten into trouble so badly....

KayKat- Yes, Margie may have more experience then Reed but her horse hasn't been as consistent. Reed did so well in the trials.. BUT I have a feel a part of her selection also had to do with her age. My guess is that the committee thought it might up some publicity for the equestrian world and get some younger riders even more enthusiastic. And I think it did.


----------



## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Country Woman said:


> I agree with this
> Beezie does not suck, could it be you are jealous cause you are not there
> stop dissing the horses and riders



Add in some sarcastic tone. Hence the beautiful picture of them jumping quite well. I actually know beezie and i think she is a phenominal rider. One of the best in the world and Via Volo just had an off day the first day.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

eliduc said:


> In your misguided patriotic zeal what you are advocating is the violation of first amendment rights of free speech. I realize that I have tramped on some people's holy ground and expected some impassioned replies which is fine. Superficial, personal insults are generally....well, shallow and without intellectual value.


I must have missed something...I can't find a post where anyone advocated suppressing first amendment rights. Can you point that out to me?

Oh, and superficial, personal insults may be shallow and without intellectual value, but they too are our fist amendment rights - are you advocating suppressing the first amendment yourself? Besides, I don't believe having intellectual value is a criterion for posts here. I belong to a physics forum where most posts have intellectual value, but this is a horse forum...being a member of Mensa is not a prerequisite for membership...


----------



## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Oops, I read your post wrong Country Woman. haha, sorry I thought that was directed to me!


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

upnover said:


> Add in some sarcastic tone. Hence the beautiful picture of them jumping quite well. I actually know beezie and i think she is a phenominal rider. One of the best in the world and Via Volo just had an off day the first day.


I am not saying that you said this 
Beezie is amazing at her job


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

its just the way you said the comment


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

eliduc said:


> What I was getting at, and maybe I am wrong, but it seems to me that the Americans tried to reinvent the jumping style decades ago and that jumping was greatly influenced by the likes of George Morris for over fifty years. While the U.S. teams have consistently been in the top ten it cannot be said that we have been consistent winners in the top three. Why is that? We have the best of horses and our riders are not lacking in competitiveness or grit. Is it that an elite few decided that the Germans and the Swiss and the French were all doing it wrong and we could do it better by reinventing the wheel? But the Germans and the Swiss and the French continued winning. Granted, you would never have caught me on one of those horses. I'm afraid of heights. However, when we watch a high level competition we are comparing horsemanship and when I see a rider jerking a horse in the mouth around a turn and the horses are going hollow backed and throwing their heads around then I am unimpressed by the level of the horsemanship. The British horses were quite different in comparison and consistency. There are times when you just have to admit that the other side was better and deserved to win. In reply to Timberline, if it would be unpatriotic to discuss why an American team did not win you would have to take ESPN off the networks. This is a horse forum where people (are supposed to) have intelligent discussions about horses and riders not b.s. politics. In your misguided patriotic zeal what you are advocating is the violation of first amendment rights of free speech. I realize that I have tramped on some people's holy ground and expected some impassioned replies which is fine. Superficial, personal insults are generally....well, shallow and without intellectual value.


You might have a point about some of the issues you are saying, but you are wrong in the execution of it. George Morris is about taking riders to equitation perfection. He is not about reinventing anything, he is a stick in the mud who is stuck in his ways. He does not believe in changing rider form to suit the horse, at all. 





Roperchick said:


> ^^^ i have to agree with that. at least where im at (four corners) any kind of english/jumping/dressage is like non-existant. its not as popular and i hardly ever hear about it....even my horsey friends here that are from all over the U.S. of A hardly deal with it, so im not suprised that other countrys would be doing better....jmho not saying that 'mericans are crappy riders, just that its not as popular here, bad horsemanship is present everywhere. but people rooting for their home countries are gonna be biased (good and bad) towards their own.


This blows my mind! Are you stuck in the middle of the country where there is no TV or GP level riding, and it's all western?


----------



## kaykat31 (Feb 15, 2009)

Thank you upnover, I was trying to explain why the US team did not perform as well as some were hoping. Via Volo is an amazing horse, and had it not been Beezie on her, she probably would not have even gotten around, BUT every amazing horse still starts out young and less experienced, and Via might not have been as ready as say Beezie's old mount, Authentic, was when he went. Therefore some of Beezie's problems were the fact that Via Volo just was not quite ready, you have to have an EXTREMELY broke horse to be able to do a 1.60m course,a TON of show miles & just plain out experience of the horse, let alone with Olympic pressure. IMO, in the next Olympics, Via Volo will probably be AMAZING, she probably just needs a few more miles. And George Morris is AMAZING, there is no one that will teach you as much as George Morris. He strives to teach every rider willing to their greatest potential & has produced some amazing riders and horses. You can soak up so much information just from listening to him speak. I have too many good words to speak of him.


----------



## kaykat31 (Feb 15, 2009)

BTW, not sure if the Beezie comments were directed at me or not. I meant that Via Volo is young & possibly wasn't quite ready, not Beezie. Beezie is an outstanding rider & I've had to opportunity to ride with trainers that have spent a lot of time with Beezie & I've learned a lot from the things that Beezie has taught them. I highly respect Beezie.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

You know, you simply have to look at the BIG picture. Great Britain had a definite advantage. They didn't have to spend days traveling, staying in quarantine barns, have sporadic riding, go into unfamiliar surroundings with a type of footing many had not ridden in before (a unique mix of materials). Some of the other teams had been in GB longer than we had so that the horses had "settled" more. Some of the international riders (Saudis) are based in England.

And you seem not to factor in the fact the, sometimes, horses just don't have a good day. It is sad when they are off on such a big day, but....

And we had young less experienced members of the team and less experienced horses. 

Our riders get precious little help from our country, unlike the riders of many other countries. Heck, the Saudis spent one of the highest purchase prices know to get some of the best horses in the world. Now that they have worked with some of the best trainers, they are finally learning to ride these awesome mounts. Our riders bow and scrape for young talented horses who are often sold out from under them, sometimes just before competitions like the Olympics.

So, complain all you want. Just don't think that these horses are kept in gold boxes and will be perfect performers every time you pull them out.

Oh, and I have been watching free network TV and saw hours of eventing and quite a bit of dressage (including Romney's and Ebelings horse.


----------



## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Allison Finch said:


> You know, you simply have to look at the BIG picture. Great Britain had a definite advantage. They didn't have to spend days traveling, staying in quarantine barns, have sporadic riding, go into unfamiliar surroundings with a type of footing many had not ridden in before (a unique mix of materials). Some of the other teams had been in GB longer than we had so that the horses had "settled" more. Some of the international riders (Saudis) are based in England.
> 
> And you seem not to factor in the fact the, sometimes, horses just don't have a good day. It is sad when they are off on such a big day, but....
> 
> ...




This. I am British, and even I can admit we had the home advantage - no long haul flights etc and massive changes in climate. The ground I would argue about - none of the riders had ridden that XC course before, even the test event last year was a different, easier course. And that course was vastly different from most UK XC courses like Burghley and Badminton, which don't have the same twists and turns, so on that I would argue there was no advantage.

However, this is the point of the Olympics: it's only once in a lifetime that you'll have the home advantage, with the crowds all cheering for you, and it can either be a big advantage or really off-putting. We were lucky our riders lived up to it, in both the show jumping and eventing. Bring on the dressage...


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Can I just point out that both Scott Brash and Ben Mahr are very young (26 and 29 respectivly) 
Scott annd Bens horses are only 10 yrs old! Via Volo is 14yrs old! that is NOT young.

British Riders get almost NO support, they fund it all themselves and also still have horses bought out from under them (actualy quite a few go accross to america it seems, or certianly a few high profile ones have).

Whilst I probably couldnt ride one side of those horses i have to say that i do know the mechanics of a horse and there were quite a few ridders that i so wanted to grab thier shoulder and pull them back, there was one guy in perticular (and I dont know what country he was from) that ended up on something like 24 faults, his horse flattened over the jumps realy badly because he was hunched over its shoulders the entire way and didnt have a hope of getting it back on its hocks. 

Horses can jump from an outline, helps you get them back on thier hocks, horses cannot jump high when they are hollow as they cant engage thier hocks properly!


----------



## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I just enjoy watching the equestrian and having fun


----------



## kaykat31 (Feb 15, 2009)

Via Volo is not that young age wise, but she is younger riding wise at that level. Via Volo really started to appear when Authentic got retired 2 & a half years ago(I think). Plus you had to add in that Via Volo had major traveling pressures that she might not be 100% comfortable with, that British horses did not encounter. I know even staying in yhe country that mine dont ride as well nor as relaxed when theyve had a lot of long traveling. The ride in the Olympics to the combination where Via Volo stopped at rode in a forward 7 or easy 8, Beezies comment after was that she was trying to school Via Volo(smart decision) & went for the 8, but Via Volo was going to jump into the standard because she was drifting so hard so they did not go over, the second time they just did not get there & she still had the drift so Via Volo stopped at the oxer(I believe?). Via Volo didn't do perfect in the Olympic trials either, she had some rails & I think once Beezie had to circle out, but it's Beezie Madden, the US would've been stupid to not send her, she's amazing. Honestly, no one can exactly say because no one has ridden Via Volo, but I agree with Allison that the US horses probably did have a hard time with that much traveling, and that all horses have off days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

> This blows my mind! Are you stuck in the middle of the country where there is no TV or GP level riding, and it's all western?


 
bahahaha yeah pretty much. where i live(well when im home) its 99% rodeo. theres no english shows there at all throughout the year except the County fair (which has 1 english class...)

there are schooling show curcuits in CO and southern NM that have english but the ones i went to didnt have jumping.

theres no dressage, show jumping, or cross country anywhere near me.

what there is alot of is cow horse, WP, rodeo and competitive trail.

you have to go over to the big AZ shows or go to way south NM to get any Eventing....most of my rodeo buddies wouldnt even know what eventing is if they didnt watch the olympics


----------



## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

The Brits won a gold in show jumping, a gold in dressage and a silver in three day eventing. It surprised we Brits. Yes, there was an advantage in that the horses did not have to travel too far but the competition was fierce and we won through.

My own idea is that we have been humiliated for so long in equestrian sports by the teams from the Continent that we have been determined on our home ground to beat the Europeans. A lot of effort went in to making sure we had a good chance to do so in 2012. As it was the Germans, the Swedes and the Dutch gave us a run for our money. Even the Saudis won a bronze and they are going to be a force in horse events in the future.

We suffer a little from the fact that too much sponsorship money goes into spectator sports such as football. We need to see more Pounds directed to the equestrian sports. We have the horses; we have the knowledge, we have the traditions, we have the skills. We have now proved we can win.

Come along in 2016 and compete with us in Rio - otherwise the Kiwis, the Canucks and the Ozzies might win instead of we Brits. 

But be advised there are some new faces in the professional horse world in Britain and they are young faces who are going to be around for some time.


----------



## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

faye said:


> Can I just point out that both Scott Brash and Ben Mahr are very young (26 and 29 respectivly)
> Scott annd Bens horses are only 10 yrs old! Via Volo is 14yrs old! that is NOT young.


I don't know much about the british horses but didn't Via Volo spend some time as a broodmare? I know she has babies (Vanilla, one of beezie's other horses actually). I suppose that doesn't mean she actually carried her though! I know she won quite a bit in the US but I don't know how much international competition she's had. I do remember seeing Antares and Via at Indoors last year and I believe VV beat Antares. 

I think a lot of it comes down to what Allison said too... sometimes horses have bad days.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*Olympic showjumping*

Hey we Brits were the bottom of the heap for so long we were getting used to it but bashing on them wouldn't have helped anything They had only one way to go and that was up. Please will everyone forgive me for saying
Team GB you have made me so proud to be British this week
The UK is such a small country so everyone is fighting for sponsorship and with the ever shrinking amount of open land available for keeping horses, not to mention the huge cost of it compared to what I'm seeing in the US it amazes me that anyone there keeps horses at all

Whether they came first or last I'm pretty sure they were all giving it their best and deserve applause for that not negativity


----------



## kaykat31 (Feb 15, 2009)

upnover said:


> I don't know much about the british horses but didn't Via Volo spend some time as a broodmare? I know she has babies (Vanilla, one of beezie's other horses actually). I suppose that doesn't mean she actually carried her though! I know she won quite a bit in the US but I don't know how much international competition she's had. I do remember seeing Antares and Via at Indoors last year and I believe VV beat Antares.
> 
> I think a lot of it comes down to what Allison said too... sometimes horses have bad days.



Yes, I believe Via Volo had a few babies...Hence why she is 14 but still a tad green in some instances, and 1.60m is HUGE & international competition she's mostly only done the last season & a half I think.. I remember really noticing her in Wellington the winter after Authentic was retired at Syracuse in Oct, but even then I feel like she was doing 1.40-1.50m or so(I may be wrong as this was winter 2011). She is just as nice as another of the other olympic horses, just a little less experienced IMHO, and on a good day has just as good of a chance as any of the others, but every horse has their day.


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

kaykat31 said:


> The ride in the Olympics to the combination where Via Volo stopped at rode in a forward 7 or easy 8, Beezies comment after was that she was trying to school Via Volo(smart decision) & went for the 8, but Via Volo was going to jump into the standard because she was drifting so hard so they did not go over, the second time they just did not get there & she still had the drift so Via Volo stopped at the oxer(I believe?). Via Volo didn't do perfect in the Olympic trials either, she had some rails & I think once Beezie had to circle out, but it's Beezie Madden, the US would've been stupid to not send her, she's amazing. Honestly, no one can exactly say because no one has ridden Via Volo, but I agree with Allison that the US horses probably did have a hard time with that much traveling, and that all horses have off days.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry but the olympics is NOT the place to school a horse, the preparation needs to be done before hand! 
Rosettes are won at home, you only go to shows to pick them up! this is the mantra drilled into any Pony club member from a young age.

Also big names are not everything, it is bein stuck in your ways and sending someone just because they are a big name that has scuppered GB chances in the last few years. Now we have a new team selector who doesnt care who you are or what family you belong to or how well you did 10 years ago, and suprise suprise we are now winning. who would have thought that a team without the Whittakers in it would be representing the uk.


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

eliduc said:


> In your misguided patriotic zeal what you are advocating is the violation of first amendment rights of free speech. I realize that I have tramped on some people's holy ground and expected some impassioned replies which is fine. Superficial, personal insults are generally....well, shallow and without intellectual value.


Well said. Like I said before I don't think American riders are any worse than most others, but I can't believe the level of sensitivity people are showing here. 

I'll be the first to admit that the Canadian team has serious issues. I thought it was shameful the way Tiffany Foster balled her eyes out on TV after she was eliminated... Anger I could understand, but crying on the job is NOT okay unless somebody just died. Watching her I figured she was about 19 and just had some growing up to do. She's freaking 28! Compare that to Hawley Bennett-Awad, who after getting both eliminated and injured just said "Yep, that's the sport" and moved on. Now that takes class.


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

faye said:


> Also big names are not everything, it is bein stuck in your ways and sending someone just because they are a big name that has scuppered GB chances in the last few years. Now we have a new team selector who doesnt care who you are or what family you belong to or how well you did 10 years ago, and suprise suprise we are now winning. who would have thought that a team without the Whittakers in it would be representing the uk.


I wish someone in Canada would take this attitude.


----------



## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

One other thing about the Olympics - the games took place in a brand new venue. OK, the local residents had their lives interrupted by all the additional traffic but Coe wanted the horse events close by the main athletic events, - which in hindsight was perhaps a good idea.
But as a result the course builder had to start from scratch and the smaller horses did well.

Yes, it all went well. I'll be even more pleased when we see teams from Eastern Europe, the Arab nations and maybe even central Russia - all of which countries have a long tradition with horses.

And how about a Le Trec competition in the Olympics?


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Barry have you actualy bothered watching any other event than the eventing?
Eastern Europe, Russia and the Arab nations are all well represented. Infact for a couple of rounds Saudi Arabia was in Gold medal position in the Showjumping, they ended up in broze i believe.

Le Trec hasnt got the worldwide presence that is needed to be included in the olympics, reining has a similar issue.

I wouold say that if more equestrian events were to be included the first one would probably be endurance.


----------



## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*An Olympic Obstacle Course*

Thinking back over the Equine Games, I would like to see a ‘fun’ event which can be enjoyed by all members of the family even those who barely the know the front end from the back end of a horse.

I envisage this competition as being of especial interest to the happy hackers and the trail riders. 

Essentially it would be a glorified obstacle course - obstacles which represent those we find out of the course or competition arena. The Le Trec riders know the type of obstacle I am talking about but I would add in a few to be seen out in the community. I envisage scenarios incorporating noise, agricultural tractors, gates, barking dogs,pigs , narrow walkways, deep water, backing up, dismounting and remounting, waving flags. All in all a fun event with lots of audience roaring and clapping; perhaps run against the clock. 
All horses over 14h2” would be welcome - fancy dress of the riders optional 

Grand Prix dressage is all very elegant but most of us don’t appreciate nor understand the finesse involved. Show jumping has reached the level where the fences can’t be higher and now the course builders are making some of the jumps dangerous for the horse’s legs. 

Why not an event which is simply ‘fun.’ but calling for fine horse control and absolute obedience?


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

because the olympics is not about "Fun" it is about athletisism, training and dedication, being the Best of the Best, hard physical effort! It is about SPORT

Fancy Dresss would make a total farce out of it and ruin the credability of the equestrian disciplines as sports and likely get all of the equestrian disciplines dropped.

If you want "fun" then go to a local show or gymkana.

My boyfriend doesnt know one end of a horse from anouther, yet he and his parents sat and watched the showjumping absolutly facinated. I then got a barrage of questions.

Heck even my non horsey friends have watched the dressage!


----------



## mind (Dec 14, 2011)

ponyboy said:


> Well said. Like I said before I don't think American riders are any worse than most others, but I can't believe the level of sensitivity people are showing here.
> 
> I'll be the first to admit that the Canadian team has serious issues. I thought it was shameful the way Tiffany Foster balled her eyes out on TV after she was eliminated... Anger I could understand, but crying on the job is NOT okay unless somebody just died. Watching her I figured she was about 19 and just had some growing up to do. She's freaking 28! Compare that to Hawley Bennett-Awad, who after getting both eliminated and injured just said "Yep, that's the sport" and moved on. Now that takes class.


I don't take the slightest issue with Tiffany Foster shedding a few tears following the disqualification. London is Tiffany's first Olympics; after a lifetime of dedication and sacrifice, she reached the pinnacle of athletic achievement, and proceeded to be disqualified by a scratch on a leg. A moment that heart breaking is only surpassed in its pain by death. Eric Lamaze was furious and pacing in anger, Tiffany cried; both reactions are just different individuals natural reaction to terrible news. What matters is that Tiffany picks herself up from this disappointment, and uses it as fuel to drive her to success in Rio. 

What about all the athletes who cried on the podium while receiving medals, was that wrong too, since no one died?

I don't see why people consider a moment of tears a sign of massive weakness. I certainly don't feel the need to cauterize my tear ducts. 

Just my opinion, of course.


----------



## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

The Oly,pic games has a strong political element and a message about competition in sport rather than in warfare. I would like to see countries like Mongolia, Iran, Algeria, Lithuania, entering the Olympics. Look how well the Chinese are now doing. I want to see nations compete in sport, I don't like to watch them on TV shooting at eachother with anti tank rockets and AK47s. 

Yes, I watched the show jumping and some of the dressage and I was very pleased to see the Saudis come third in jumping. Part of me wanted them to win. I would like to see some horse events at which they might have an advantage with their arab stallions and hardy asian ponies. 

In many European countries horse riding is a female dominated sport and presents an opportunity for the feminine 'cause' to be promoted worlwide, even in the Muslim world But I would also like to see more young men in the sport.

It is an idea - I am trying to think outside the box.


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Barry - next thing you'll want there to be a mum and dads egg and spoon race in the athletics stadium. That would be the equivalent of the fancy dress happy hacking open to everyone!

Yes it is about competition in sport however note the key word SPORT! if a dead from the neck up Dobbin can compete then it should not be at the olympics! heck my 29yrold 13.2hh pony would do very well in your competition since he is often described as dead from the neck up and is totaly unflappable in any situation. he is however somewhat unfit, artheritic and possiblly partialy blind! as much as i love him he is not, never was and never should be concidered as something suitable for any olympic competition.


----------



## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Faye, in any discussion there are usually two sides to be taken - for and against.

When I was young a competitor in the Olympic Games had to be an amateur - whereas a competitor in World Sport was a professional. Now it seems to be a competitor at the Olympics we all have to be professionals - just like footballers. 

It might be said that we Brits bought the Olympic Games - lock stock and barrel and there are certainly some issues to be discussed about this years's 'games'. But this forum is not the place for that discussion.
However,
I am concerned that a female swimmer cries and apologises for only winning a bronze medal.
I am concerned that the depth of a tyre tread must be measured to judge the female winner of a cycle race.
and there is the issue about closing East London off even to local residents to allow the priviledged a free run to the venue.

But it is better we spend the money on a sports event than we buy another aircraft carrier.

I personally like to see people take part in sport - they don't even have to win - just take part. I am not keen on the idea of 'professional' athletes - whatever that means - I want to see athletes taking part after they have been to work not instead of it. I want to see the youth of Tottenham playing at sport and not feeling they have to become professionals.

I once took my 70 yo sister in law for a ride up a mountainside on my horse - she's never forgotten it. I took a friend's four year old son for his first short hack with him alone holding the reins.
I have taken numerous trainee scuba divers down to the bottom of the green sea just outside Lulworth Cove and watched their jubilant faces when they surfaced.
I have steadied my own shaking hands when the instructor got out of the tiny plane and said - " now do a circuit on your own".

If athleticism means "only winning counts" then I am glad I am not an athlete.

Once I have mentioned to a complete stranger in a foreign land that I dive, or I ride a horse , a conversation (sometimes in sign language) starts up and all barriers or race, religion, nationality, language & politics seem to disappear. 
That was what I saw to be the Olympic spirit - taking part in sport in friendly competition.

And if all the pony clubs in Britain and around the world get together to compete once every four years and everyone laughs and shouts and cheers - what's wrong with that? Give the winner a gold coated plastic medal if it isn't competititve enough. Just try to leave everyone, competitors and spectators alike, with some memories. 
Get them off their butts, away from the computor or TV and out into the fresh air.


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Barry, the point is that the Olympics are supposed to be the pinicle of athletic achievement. You get proffessional actors, proffessional models so why not proffessional atheletes.

I too would like everyone to be involved in sport, that does not however mean that everyone should be able to compete in the olympics - that totaly removes the prestige of the event. It is something to aspire to not something that should be open to every tom, **** and harry!

The Ponyclubs of UK already come together once a year for the Ponyclub mounted games championships. so why does it have to be done at the olympics?

Leave the olympics well alone and stop trying to Dumb it down! we've already seen what that has done to our education system (no child gets left behind crap) lets not do it to our sports as well.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*Olympics*



Barry Godden said:


> The Oly,pic games has a strong political element and a message about competition in sport rather than in warfare. I would like to see countries like Mongolia, Iran, Algeria, Lithuania, entering the Olympics. Look how well the Chinese are now doing. I want to see nations compete in sport, I don't like to watch them on TV shooting at eachother with anti tank rockets and AK47s.
> 
> Yes, I watched the show jumping and some of the dressage and I was very pleased to see the Saudis come third in jumping. Part of me wanted them to win. I would like to see some horse events at which they might have an advantage with their arab stallions and hardy asian ponies.
> 
> ...


 I can sort of see what you're trying to get at here but there are events going on all the time at 'world level', the Olympics gets a lot of press because it brings so many different sports together all under 'one roof'. Travelling horses all over the world is a costly business and not without its risks and for the sort of average rider who is going to compete in what we used to call 'Handy Pony' at World Level the costs would be prohibitive. The Saudis have paid huge amounts of money to buy european showjumpers, they do compete at World class events with their arabians against other arabian horse owners, the UK has hardy native ponies but we dont expect them to have a class at the Olympics. It would be good to see Endurance classes there but again it all comes down to funding and when money is tight its not always easy for people to compete even at basic level in their own country.
There is nothing stopping men from competing - other than the men themselves. For some reason most of the boys who start off doing really well in ponies give up when they get into their teenage years whereas girls are more inclined to carry on - though at the upper level the men are still very evident as top riders especially in racing.
The odd thing I see is that horse people are their own worst enemies, all the time I see them creating divisions even amongst themselves depending on what they choose to do for eg dressage versus barrel racing yet both things if you are going to do them well demand a huge amount of skill and training
Le Trec is a great idea for people who want to do something that doesn't need a horse that costs vast amounts of money
For me the best way to get people involved in horse sport is to have a good lower level that doesn't intimidate anyone that wants to start new to it and makes them feel good because they have achieved something. I'm sure that all over the horse competing world this weekend there will be some little kid on their very ordinary pony feeling like they are on top of the world because they have won their first rossette in a gymkhana class. To me that is better than all the Olympic Gold medals and if anyone wants to see more people competing and getting involved then they should go along and applaud at these shows and maybe offer to lend a hand


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

mind said:


> Eric Lamaze was furious and pacing in anger, Tiffany cried; both reactions are just different individuals natural reaction to terrible news.


Pacing is way to keep control. Sobbing so hard you can't get a word out is a complete loss of control.


----------



## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Barry Godden said:


> Yes, I watched the show jumping and some of the dressage and I was very pleased to see the Saudis come third in jumping. Part of me wanted them to win. I would like to see some horse events at which they might have an advantage with their arab stallions and hardy asian ponies.


AFAIK none of the Saudi's horses had the least bit of Arab in them. Imagine how different the Olympics would be if riders could only ride breeds native to their country!


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I don't think poorly of the rider weeping at all. First, this was the culmination of a lifetimes work...only to be eliminated by a small cut. Bitter disappointment and yes, even weeping is not out of order OR showing poor sportsmanship, IMO. Poor sportsmanship would be someone weeping because someone beat her. Knowing your partner is out after having given you everything they had? Not a problem for me at ALL.

You know, no one GAVE GB anything here. They earned everything they got with every step they made. Did they have advantages? Yes. BUT, they simply outrode everyone else. And I, for one, stand and applaud their hard work!!


----------



## Gilly (May 28, 2011)

I don't understand why people hate on their own athletes. Our swimming team is getting SLAUGHTERED by the media for "only" winning silver medals instead of gold. One of our swimmers broke down in tears after winning a silver because she thought she disappointed her family and nation. It's stupid. Not to mention the performance-based pay news that Swimming Australia dropped on them mere weeks before the Games.

When things aren't going peachy cheer anyway. These are our people.

Don't think it's good enough? Let's see you do better.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*Team BG*



Allison Finch said:


> I don't think poorly of the rider weeping at all. First, this was the culmination of a lifetimes work...only to be eliminated by a small cut. Bitter disappointment and yes, even weeping is not out of order OR showing poor sportsmanship, IMO. Poor sportsmanship would be someone weeping because someone beat her. Knowing your partner is out after having given you everything they had? Not a problem for me at ALL.
> 
> You know, no one GAVE GB anything here. They earned everything they got with every step they made. Did they have advantages? Yes. BUT, they simply outrode everyone else. And I, for one, stand and applaud their hard work!!


 Hey read back a bit - I did and proud to say so!!!!! I'm British by the way so allowed
Re. the native breed classes - dont know how the US would do in that as all the native breeds from here disapeared in prehistoric times - so we will allow them to have the mustang I think - though on second thoughts that might do better in showjumping than a shetland pony so I may have to reconsider that lol


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I can see it now........


The Scottish team has to ride shetland ponies.........here is the XC phase!!








Scottish team dressage


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*native breed olympics*

Wonderful
Alison you just made my day - Thank you for finding those
I learnt to ride on something that vaguely resembled a shetland, he was the meanest thing that ever walked on 4 legs but a great teacher!!!!
:lol::lol:


----------



## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Unfortunately though Scotland doesn't have it's own team, just part of Team GB - because when you look at the medals, between Scotland and Yorkshire you can account for 80% of the GB medals. It's hilarious. . Plus, forget the shetlands - cross country on Clydesdales


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

nah! I think i'll do it on a nice welsh Cob! a good one of them can seriously jump!

I feel desperatly sorry for the lady who was eliminated for a cut on the leg of her horse. I too would be in tears, heck I was when stan went lame at a show (tore his suspensory) and that wasnt a major championship.


----------



## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Pony, I never said the Saudi's horses were anything but some very expensive horse flesh bought in so as to compete with the Europeans and the US. The Prince apparently spent a lot of money in an effort to gain a medal - which he secured.
What I was trying to say is that we should have events where the breeding does not give an inbred advantage.


----------



## Laures (Aug 8, 2011)

I don't think you americans have anything to complain about.
39 gold, 25 silver, 26 bronze.

What do we have?
We have an amazing eventing rider, Karin Donckers, who could have won a medal but ended up coming 15th or something like that?
The other 3 eventers: Rigouts horse wasn't experienced enough for this level, Van Springel could've ended up in the top 10 but he fell out because his horse lost a shoe. Caulier was very promising but she wasn't experienced enough and Rigouts..Rigouts was promising but made a stupid mistake at the second fence in the XC.

Our jumpers aren't better, I have no idea what Demeersman did there?
We have very,VERY talented riders here in Belgium and than they sent Demeersman and Bufero who -no offence- are a good combination but they just aren't good enough for this level. The sponser of Wathelet should've never sold Copin van de Broy to the Germans because that was a medal combo and they were really good together. le Jeune could have won gold because Vigo is just the best horse ever. But he got hurt and Vigo wasn't in good condition thanks to his breeding duties. Lansink is good, his horse is to but they made mistakes that could have been avoided.

Dressage...Claudia is a very descent rider and I really like her horse but dressage just isn't out piece of cake.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*New Olympic horse classes*



Barry Godden said:


> Pony, I never said the Saudi's horses were anything but some very expensive horse flesh bought in so as to compete with the Europeans and the US. The Prince apparently spent a lot of money in an effort to gain a medal - which he secured.
> What I was trying to say is that we should have events where the breeding does not give an inbred advantage.


 The big problem is that as soon as something becomes an Olympic horse sport whatever is going to be the best at it increases in value so even a non descript pony that was the bees knees at the Olympic egg & spoon race would suddenly become priced out of the average riders pocket.
Anyway US folk - how many of you knew that you won the Mounted Games World chamionship this year?
Heres a clip done by a british boy


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

WHAT a thread. You've all sucked me Back into following INatl Show Jumping and Dressage!
Allison, thanks for the "Duke Dressage Championship" I want to post it on my FB page bc my Friends would get a kick out of it!!
RE: George Morris, I watched an interview with him recently. He credits his success to the tutoring of very hard-working teachers who sacrificed during the Great Depression to learn their craft. He said that he was not a natural, just driven to do well, and his writing and advice still holds up. I think that the ONLY advice that I disagree with is mounting--the facing backwards part--and that's ONLY bc in studying the US Cavalry Manual, they suggest the RH on the pommel facing forewards. (You are also expected to choke yourself with your rifle so it doesn't swing around and smack your horse in the face while mounting, so many reasons for the difference.) Still, I'm willing to accept it as a good way to control your horse, ALONG WITH proper training to stand still!! His intensive study of Hunter/Jumpers is worth reading and considering bc you can tell that he was ALWAYS ready to learn something new from other horseman.
RE: the 2012 Jumping Course, there were so many clear rounds, I guess it's difficult to challenge them, without turning the ShowJumping into an arena Cross-Country course.
RE: the original thread's topic. Although I still think that, like AlexS said, you have to be lucky to catch Equestrian coverage, I will still be able to enjoy finding the rounds in the INet and watching and rewatching them for my own edification.
And, No, I DIDN'T know that the US had won the Mounted Games World chamionship this year. Still, LOTS more horseman in the US than the UK--we've got ~300,000 people compared to ~60,000--and even our women's soccer ("football") teams have more participants than in the UK.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Jaydee, that video is fantastic!! Those kids are fabulous riders. And those ponies were true champs. Thanks for posting that.


----------

