# 4yo QH filly



## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

This is Stylish Lights aka Heidi. My saddle did not fit her correctly so I couldn't ride her and that's why she isn't in good shape. Now I can and it's too cold and too much snow! Sorry about the crappy paddock. We got 18" of snow and it's just starting to melt and it's a wreck! Here is a link to her pedigree.
Stylish Lights Quarter Horse


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

She looks very mellow. Her structure is not the greatest, but she should be ok for general riding, and if you love her that is the most important! 

She has a rather course head with small eyes. Neck is a bit short but ties in ok at her chest, though a bit roughly at the withers. Her shoulder is fairly upright, and she appears to be slightly pigeon breasted. Her withers are well set. Her back is nice and short, but she has a minor roach forming. She is steep and short through the croup and appears slightly sickle hocked and also a bit post legged. I do like her bone and pasterns are a good length and angle.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The pic in your profile is much more flattering, though her conformation won't change.

She looks shorter than 14.2 but maybe the guy holding her is just tall.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This horse has some issues. Every once in awhile I see a horse like this... abd it may be due to over line breeding to the point of being almost inbred. 

This horse has a true roach back. Her neck is also short and set low. These two things are what I have seen on over line bred (mostly) Quarterhorses. This neck set is an unsoundness IMO. I would love xrays of her bones. This does not mean she won't be useable.. but she is going to be a stiff horse and I suspect she may not have the nicest trot. Added to his is her head to neck attachment which is abrupt and hammer headed.

Her shoulder is super steep and her point of shoulder is low. Her humerus, which lies very flat, is over long. She will have very little reach with her front end. She is also pigeon breasted. 

Her hind quarters are decent, but her hind leg is over straight. Her stifle could be placed further forward. Her bone is adequate. 

I think this little horse will be a difficult saddle fit. I also think as she ages and finishes growing her roach back will become more pronounced.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Elana said:


> This horse has some issues. Every once in awhile I see a horse like this... abd it may be due to over line breeding to the point of being almost inbred.
> 
> This horse has a true roach back. Her neck is also short and set low. These two things are what I have seen on over line bred (mostly) Quarterhorses. This neck set is an unsoundness IMO. I would love xrays of her bones. This does not mean she won't be useable.. but she is going to be a stiff horse and I suspect she may not have the nicest trot. Added to his is her head to neck attachment which is abrupt and hammer headed.
> 
> ...


With all this being said, which I agree 100% especially with the neck being an unsoundness. I can't imagine the horse itself being too comfortable under saddle. I can imagine these faults in her build leads to some pain for her. Poor girl, this is one reason why breeding should be more controlled.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

.Delete. said:


> Poor girl, this is one reason why breeding should be more controlled.


Well looking at this little mares pedigree, she is actually quite nicely bred with proven cutting horses on both sides and close up so I don't think the above comment is warranted. Her sire has competed very successfully and produced many money winning cutters (no photo of the mother available). Yes, she is line bred a few generations back, which may or may not be contributing to her various issues. IMO this is just a case where even the best planned breedings can sometimes result in something that doesn't turn out as well as planned.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

Thanks for the feed back. Her "roachback" was actually due to her being out of alignment and poor saddle fit. I only rode her maybe 5 times and she was agitated the last time so I stopped riding her and had a chiro come out. She advised me that the hump would possibly go away. The small dip before her withers is from her winter blanket. They have been wearing them almost non stop for over a week due to a lot of snow fall and really cold (-20's) temps. Here is another pic of her although it is farther away she has more muscling and is in better shape. She actually has a very smooth trot and her lope is very slow and collected. If I ever bred her, which is a very small possibility, I was looking at outcrossing to a TB. Get rid on that line breeding and give her some height, she is about 14.2, my hubby is 6'2". She needs a little longer back, most saddles are too long for her, and a longer neck.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I can see saddle fit being an issue. She does look much better in the summer pics (big belly there! I think it's just the way she's built) but her conformation doesn't change. Can't really see in that pic but it does look like she has a slight roach there. Not a breeding prospect, imo.

If the dip is from the blanket get another blanket! Blankets can cause physical issues if not fitting right, as you are seeing.

I'm a little skeptical of that hump being purely from a back issue. Just the size and the way it looks. Do you have any other pics? I would be interested to see if she looks any different.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

love2lope84 said:


> Thanks for the feed back. Her "roachback" was actually due to her being out of alignment and poor saddle fit. I only rode her maybe 5 times and she was agitated the last time so I stopped riding her and had a chiro come out. She advised me that the hump would possibly go away. The small dip before her withers is from her winter blanket. They have been wearing them almost non stop for over a week due to a lot of snow fall and really cold (-20's) temps. Here is another pic of her although it is farther away she has more muscling and is in better shape. She actually has a very smooth trot and her lope is very slow and collected. If I ever bred her, which is a very small possibility, I was looking at outcrossing to a TB. Get rid on that line breeding and give her some height, she is about 14.2, my hubby is 6'2". She needs a little longer back, most saddles are too long for her, and a longer neck.


These might cause minor blemishes in a horse's confirmation but none of this would actually effect the way she is built. Her neck is set below her withers, thats not caused by a blanket, thats the way she is built. Also, the roach back is another confirmation fault. You can still see it in the photo provided. A poorly fitting saddle wouldn't cause something like that. Unfortunately there is nothing that can correct these faults. However, there are ways to make her more comfortable.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Hmm.. jw if the roach back and the saddle fit is why she had a chiro issue in the first place. Idk if roach backs are prone to issues or not.

If so that'd be a huge issue for the future if she only made it 5 rides before being sore.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Yogiwick said:


> Hmm.. jw if the roach back and the saddle fit is why she had a chiro issue in the first place. Idk if roach backs are prone to issues or not.
> 
> If so that'd be a huge issue for the future if she only made it 5 rides before being sore.


Roach backs can be more prone to back issues. It all depends on the horse and the degree of the roach.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

One thing I would love is to see this mare on cows. Just see. She certainly has the blood for it.. but will it show in the 'tude? She might cut in spite of her look.. as the motion of cutting probably would be OK for this horse. She has enough butt and enough hind leg and is close to the ground. 

She might be the devil incarnate to a cow. And if she was all that, she also might be a money earner.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

If you ever saw John Henry.. who ran races until he was 10 and won around $10 million dollars for his owner.. you would say, "He couldn't run a straight line down the middle of a railroad track!" 

Well he did.. and he did it over and over and over again. He was no beauty but he ran well and often and he was all attitude. 

This little horse might be all that and more. Pretty isn't all there is to a horse.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

I finally got to start riding her in late Oct off and on. She does fine under saddle now that I have one that fits her. Didn't get to ride much, it got cold pretty soon after and I ride her here and there when it's not snowing or freezing cold and she does great. She meets me at the gate whenever I come out with the halter and she is all business when you get on. I tried to find her videos on youtube. Had one of her doing reining work and one of her on an obstacle course but the prev owner took them off.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

Finally found a pic of her from when I first got her.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

She looks much better! The conformation is the same, that won't change. But this picture is more flattering, imo. She looks more spunky too. I love her blaze/spots.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

She is in ALOT better shape in that pic. When we get some nicer weather I plan to put her back into a fitting program to get her looking more like that again. I originally bought her for mounted shooting. She has so much try and heart to her. I never thought about cutting, don't really know much about it but it looks like a lot of fun so I might try that with her too.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

love2lope84 said:


> She is in ALOT better shape in that pic. When we get some nicer weather I plan to put her back into a fitting program to get her looking more like that again. I originally bought her for mounted shooting. She has so much try and heart to her. I never thought about cutting, don't really know much about it but it looks like a lot of fun so I might try that with her too.


Having horse with confirmation faults but alot of try and heart is worth more than 10 beautifully built horses with no try. 

Good luck with her! I look forward to more pics!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The horse in the second photo look like a different horse. Gone is the roach and so forth.. which has me wondering from the over all stance and look of the horse in the first vs second photo if the horse in photo 1 is not in some sort pain (colic? ulcers??) or if the horse just needs more water or something (often horses drink insufficient water in winter but they do eat hay).

The second photo is a horse with NO roach back, is not tucked in all over, has a steepish shoulder and adequate length of neck and a happy, open expression. The horse in the first photo looks.. miserable....................


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

I mentioned the chiro said she thought the hump would go away. I need her to come out again and do another adjustment, its been a couple months. I have noticed that when it's really cold outside she is pretty grumpy. Usually she is happy go lucky kinda horse but when it's cold she can be a *****. Don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. She has hit a growth spurt recently and she looked kinda awkward for a couple weeks. Really butt high. She has leveled out again. Could someone show or explain to me what you are talking about with her neck? I looked at the pic a lot and I'm trying to figure out what you guys are talking about on it that is an unsoundness issue. Are you taking about the dip before her withers?


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

A dip before the withers generally signals front feet issues. If something is off it shows in the muscle of the neck there, some horses will always have it if they have huge withers, but with her seeing the before picture I'm inclined to think she's got feet issues or something on the front end going on.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

SullysRider said:


> A dip before the withers generally signals front feet issues. If something is off it shows in the muscle of the neck there, some horses will always have it if they have huge withers, but with her seeing the before picture I'm inclined to think she's got feet issues or something on the front end going on.


Thanks for pointing that out for me. My farrier did mention he wanted to put rocker shoe's (I think that's what he called them?) on her when he comes back out in March. Said she is very slightly club footed on her right front and he isn't liking how far her pasterns are dropping when she walks. Might be the issue.? I took the shoes off her in Nov because of the amount of snow we had.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Look at these two photos next to each other. In the one photo the horse has her neck drawn up. She looks like she is in pain. Her neck has a dip in front of the withers.. and she looks like a horse that is deformed she is so drawn up and into herself. Her eye is dull and she looks a bit thin and tense and preoccupied.. 

In the other photo the same horse looks NORMAL. Neck is normal.. tho perhaps placed a little low. She is a little down hill and looks a little like the stallion Smart Little Lena.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Elana said:


> Look at these two photos next to each other. In the one photo the horse has her neck drawn up. *She looks like she is in pain*. Her neck has a dip in front of the withers.. and she looks like a horse that is deformed she is so drawn up and into herself. Her eye is dull and *she looks a bit thin* and tense and preoccupied..
> 
> In the other photo the same horse looks NORMAL. Neck is normal.. tho perhaps placed a little low. She is a little down hill and looks a little like the stallion Smart Little Lena.


This! I was thinking to myself that she looks much thinner now than she was before. You can slightly make out ribs through her winter coat IMO. I completely agree she looks like she's in alot of pain.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

Here is a pic I took of her yesterday.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

She does look happier and brighter in the new photo, as well as less sucked up, but I still see a lot of tightness/soreness in her posture through the hind end. How long ago did the chiropractor work on her?


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

It was in August.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Elana said:


> The horse in the second photo look like a different horse. Gone is the roach and so forth.. which has me wondering from the over all stance and look of the horse in the first vs second photo if the horse in photo 1 is not in some sort pain (colic? ulcers??) or if the horse just needs more water or something (often horses drink insufficient water in winter but they do eat hay).
> 
> The second photo is a horse with NO roach back, is not tucked in all over, has a steepish shoulder and adequate length of neck and a happy, open expression. The horse in the first photo looks.. miserable....................


I agree completely. In the first photo she is defiantly not in great shape, she needs some good feed, and she certainly does look to be in pain. Have you checked for ulcers? How is her appetite? If she were mine I'd put her on a good diet, start her back at work slowly and check for ulcers and do a blood panel test. I can't even believe the difference in the two pictures, the first one she sure does look a lot like Smart Little Lena. 

I love her pedigree, and I'd love to see her on a cow as well. Bet she'd be a little cutting machine.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

FGRanch said:


> Have you checked for ulcers?.


This may be coincidence, but a Quarter Pony mare I used to work with, similarly built to this mare, took on the exact same stance when she started dealing with ulcers out of the blue. She also had other symptoms such as biting at things after eating or if being brushed/saddled, but the biggest indicator of something being wrong is that in just a few weeks she went from a glossy, decent looking horse to a curled-into-herself, unthrifty looking animal. Her belly began to look a bit sunken, her top line literally looked like it just dropped, and her neck looked almost exactly the same with the big dip by her withers. She stood with her back legs out behind her, and her front legs pressed underneath her much like this mare.

I'm really wondering if this mare has ulcers. Its worth a check.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Ooops I meant the second one she looks like Smart Little Lena. 

Endiku, I've seen lots of horses with ulcers that end up looking pretty roachy, not sure exactly why but they seem to happen together way to often to be a coincidence.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

I plan to have the vet out to check her teeth and I'll have him check for ulcers too. I have her on 4lbs of ADM Senior, for horses 4 and over, she gets about 1lb of alfalfa pellets, 1oz of wheat germ oil and hay 3x's a day. I just upped her feed amount about 5 weeks ago. I thought she was wormy so I gave her Quest Plus and I figured she would have picked up weight by now. She was getting 1/2lb 2x's a day of ADM Prime Glo at the beginning of winter and she started to drop weight around the beginning of Jan and that is when I changed her to the higher fat of the senior. Before that she was an easy keeper.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

Up till now she looked like the first pic and all of a sudden she started to drop weight. Ulcers do make sense and I didn't think about them till someone suggested that might be what is wrong. She eats great, good appetite and eats her hay well too. I just thought she might be wormy, I do keep mine on a good deworming schedule but she never rebounded after I dewormed her.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

It just might be ulcers then. I'm glad the vet is coming out soon to check her out. Even if the vet says no ulcers (he can't actually tell for sure unless he scopes her but often they can say yes based on symptoms) you might try treating her for them anyways and seeing if they help. Until then, upping her alfalfa pellets may help buffer her tummy and make her feel a bit better, and you could even add some probiotics into her feed to see if it helps her gut health.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

How are her teeth? That could be another thing causing weight loss. I really like Equine Power 2000 for putting weight on.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

The way she is standing suggests heel pain, my vote would be heel sore and ulcers.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

I have probiotics. I keep some around all the time. She had her teeth checked by her previous owner last spring so she is due. I'll start giving her the probiotics and more alfalfa pellets till the vet can come out. The ground is really hard and I mean FROZEN. I think she has always had shoes on but I don't like to have them on them in winter, especially with the amount of snow we have but my farrier did say he wanted to put shoes on her when he came in March so maybe that will help with that aspect.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

love2lope84 said:


> This is Stylish Lights aka Heidi. My saddle did not fit her correctly so I couldn't ride her and that's why she isn't in good shape. Now I can and it's too cold and too much snow! Sorry about the crappy paddock. We got 18" of snow and it's just starting to melt and it's a wreck! Here is a link to her pedigree.
> Stylish Lights Quarter Horse


She's bred to go either cutting or reining, but the way she's built....I would say reining. I am concerned though....over her lack of condition and thriftiness compared to another pic you posted when you got her. You really need to look into her health and your nutrition program. I wouldn't breed this one either (as well as the mare you posted). Believe me, I'm not busting on you at all, but you posted pics of two mares....in the same "lack" of condition. Granted it's winter time, but my horses condition doesn't change whether it be spring, summer, fall or winter. They stay the same weight and shape whether I ride during the winter of not. Get with someone who is a pro on a feeding program, because something is lacking here.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

GotaDunQH said:


> She's bred to go either cutting or reining, but the way she's built....I would say reining. I am concerned though....over her lack of condition and thriftiness compared to another pic you posted when you got her. You really need to look into her health and your nutrition program. I wouldn't breed this one either (as well as the mare you posted). Believe me, I'm not busting on you at all, but you posted pics of two mares....in the same "lack" of condition. Granted it's winter time, but my horses condition doesn't change whether it be spring, summer, fall or winter. They stay the same weight and shape whether I ride during the winter of not. Get with someone who is a pro on a feeding program, because something is lacking here.


I disagree, this filly is bred for cutting all the way. The CD Olena's occasionally crossed over to the reining pen but a horse bred this heavily to be a cutter would probably be extremely bored in the reining pen.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I agree, cutting all the way, but if you wanted to do reining too, you could go halfsies and do working cow horse. That's the best of both worlds.

Anyway, I agree that she might have ulcers. Like Endiku said, I would up her alfalfa (has higher calcium that will hopefully help settle her stomach) for the time being until the vet can see her and give you somthing for her. Ulcer meds can be expensive, but they are very necessary.

As for her basic conformation, she's a really nicely built mare. I don't think she has a true roach back, but has the appearance of one because of the combination of pain stance, downhill build, and lack of muscle along her topline.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

GotaDunQH said:


> She's bred to go either cutting or reining, but the way she's built....I would say reining. I am concerned though....over her lack of condition and thriftiness compared to another pic you posted when you got her. You really need to look into her health and your nutrition program. I wouldn't breed this one either (as well as the mare you posted). Believe me, I'm not busting on you at all, but you posted pics of two mares....in the same "lack" of condition. Granted it's winter time, but my horses condition doesn't change whether it be spring, summer, fall or winter. They stay the same weight and shape whether I ride during the winter of not. Get with someone who is a pro on a feeding program, because something is lacking here.


I can see someone "busting on me" over Heidi, but Josie looks pretty good. You can't see or feel her ribs. Her coat is shiny even though it doesn't look like it in the pics cause it was overcast and she has freaking dapples all over her. Do you get to ride all winter? Or have somewhere you can at least exercise your horse? I don't get to ride that much this time of year. I've gotten to ride maybe 12 times since Nov because we have had snow on the ground since then. So yeah they aren't in the best shape as far as muscle tone and conditioning because I can't hardly ride till late April and May.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I'd just like to say how nice is it so see someone taking our advice on this thread instead of getting defensive. You're clearly a capable owner and want to do best by your girl. Good luck with her, I'm sure she will turn around.


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## love2lope84 (Jan 29, 2014)

To be honest I've had to hold my tongue on some things. I have started her on the probiotics and started her on some beet pulp shreds. She has already started to perk up. She actually ran around today when I went out to catch another horse and bucked a couple times. But we have had some warmer weather too. Also her bump has mysteriously disappeared. You can barely see a small tiny little hump. Nothing like before.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's great news that she's feeling better. After seeing the pictures of her in good weight, I'm fairly convinced that the appearance of the roach was simply due to her lack of muscle and downhill build and as she bulks back up, it will likely go away.

You'll still probably have trouble keeping a saddle from sliding down onto her shoulders when you start riding her, but there isn't much you can do about that.


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