# Claymore, weight loss critique, year 2



## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I did this last year, and I'd like to get everyone's opinion on the progress made thus far. 

For history - Claymore is a coming 9 year old gelding I got 2 years ago. When I got him he had been shown under harness, but was not saddle broke. He had been used primarily as a breeding stallion and just stood around in the pasture with his mares. He was very fat and flabby, he had some muscle but in all the wrong places. He showed signs of having foundered repeatedly. He would sweat heavily with even the lightest work. He had a massive fat deposit in his cresty, cresty neck. He looked like jello when he walked. 

For the first time since I got him, I am really happy with the shape he is in now. He still has some work to go getting conditioned in the RIGHT places now, particularly in his hip and hindquarters (darn all my flat ground). But he finely has actual withers. His neck is nice and shapely, it will always be heavy, but the huge crest fat deposit is all but gone. His feet have stopped splaying out under his massive weight, and he no longer has random, intermittent joint discomfort. Muscle tone wise he was looking a lot better last fall, but I did not ride as much over the winter as I had intended to, this year. My fault! So lots and lots of schooling in a collected trot is on the agenda for this summer.

The thing is, this horse is actually only 1/4 draft. His frame, underneath all that blubber, was big, but not super heavy. It was really unhealthy for him to be so fat.

When he first got here (sorry for the poor pictures):




















Here is after 1 year (and discovering he was SUCH and easy-easy keeper that a grazing muzzle was a necessity):



















And here he is after 2 years (taken today):


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Indy, I think he looks 100% better. More muscle would always help but I know that only comes in time. I adore him!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh, wow. He's looking amazing!! Rather smexy if I do say so myself :razz:. Wonderful job getting him healthier and you are more than welcome to come visit some of my hills .


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Poke Poke Poke! Sorry, could not resist those spots.
And I am chuckling at the evil stink eye look he is giving you in the most recent photos.


I guess I never saw the before photos before. Even his legs were fat. Wow! 

What a change.

He has the draft look with the weaker back end and big chest. His neck still looks a little (not very much, just a little) cresty. I think he needs to replace some left over fat with some new muscle and that neck will look great.

He has a nice shoulder, something you could not see before he lost all that extra weight. 





*pokes a spot one last time and runs away quickly.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Indy, in that first set of photos I thought, 'Goodness, he_ really_ needs to lose some weight!'

In your second set he looks wonderful. Good job! :clap:

As Cori stated, he definitely needs more muscle, but he looks* so* much better now.

Oh, and I think he's a purdy color. :wink:


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Cori, thanks! improving muscle will be this summer's project.

Smrobs, haha thank you, I think he's made very definite improvement. I'll take you up on the hills one of these days - but only if I can take a spin on Dobe while I'm at it! :lol:

AB, that, that right there, is why I get the stink eye. He lost all that weight from me chasing him around the pasture with my finger out. :lol: The phrase "I'm gonna get your spots" is his cue to take off across the pasture, puffing and blowing with his tail over his back lol

SR, thanks! I've always been unhappy with his weight and kept getting the "he's a draft cross, he's supposed to be fat!" line. Heavy, yes, but not flat out blubbery. Oh, and *sticks tongue out at you* lol


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I know I am a stickler for your avatar photo not changing because you confuse me, but I think you should change it to the shot of him walking in his new trim frame.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Wow Indy what a difference!! He looks awesome.. I think he and Peanut would be good trail buddies.. they have the same build! LOL


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

AB, you can really see from this terrible, terrible picture how bad his neck used to be.

And I'll change to the new picture for an avi - but will you "lose" me? lol











Dressage, haha they do, don't they! They are pretty close in age too, right? Claymore will be 9 next month. I have tried to go back and visit WA once every couple years, I'll have to bring him along next time!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

:shock: Wow, that neck has come a very long way too! So obvious in that photo.


I think a new claymore avatar would be OK. I love his 'does my butt look fat in this saddle ' shot but his new hard work trimmed down self should get some glory.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

Yep Peanut is 9! You should let me know when you come to WA next and we should get together and ride!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

AB, there you go, done! Can you still see me? *waves* lol

Dressage, we should! What part of the state do you live in? When I go back to visit, it's to Kingston.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm in Yakima, so I live about 3 hours southeast of there.. so if you drive it would sort of be on the way! lol


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Dressage10135 said:


> I'm in Yakima, so I live about 3 hours southeast of there.. so if you drive it would sort of be on the way! lol


I know where Yakima is, we used to drive through it on the way to concerts at the Gorge. Plus, I went to school at WSU, so the cross-state drives from Pullman to Kingston got me pretty familiar with the area, I think one of the routes I would take took me through Yakima as well. I assume if I bring Claymore out I would be driving - doubt they would let him on a plane! Slimmed down or not! haha!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Indy? Is that you? I think I can see you. It is kind of not quite right, but I am pretty sure it is you.



He looks stunning.


Can you tell us what you did to get his weight off?


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Not to get too graphic but you can always tell the *really* fat ones...they get a swollen boy area...*laugh*


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

The sheath is not an uncommon place for edema to end up too. And some boys are just more blessed in that area than others.


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## Magaidh (Apr 13, 2011)

He's a hunk! Looking really great. I too would love to know your strategy for getting his weight off.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

AB - combination of a couple things. 
Step 1, no grain at all, what-so-ever. None. He gets free choice grass only hay (no alfalfa at all) and that's it. 
Step 2, during last summer and fall he would have a grazing muzzle on for 2 hour period (2 hours on, 2 hours off) during all daylight hours. Muzzle was left off overnight.
Step 3, he got worked at the trot a minimum of 30 minutes daily, to a good sweat. In last summer and fall, it literally was daily. Over the winter it was probably only 1-2x weekly. This spring we have picked back up to at least 3 days a week, working back up to daily again.

LOL Cori! He's making up for poor Finn :wink:. Actually, I have just assumed he was well developed from being gelded so late, and being used for breeding prior to that. His sheath definitely was fatty, too, though.

Magaidh, thanks! He's getting there. See above for my strategy. Even with this approach, it has taken 2 years. I have not taped him lately, but when I got him he was over 1800 lbs. I'll have to tape him tonight to see where it judges him at now.


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## Magaidh (Apr 13, 2011)

Sounds like a very doable system, Indy. I have two Canadian mares who have come out of the winter VERY overweight. We have held off taking them to pasture with my two geldings and need to get a consistent strategy into place soon to get the weight off of them. They never get grained, and only get very limited grass hay. I don't know how they keep the weight on with their "starvation" diet!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Shoot I wish I had known there was extra weight going for free, my Lucas could do with some. Sigh! They are a battle one way or another. 

Indy, he looks amazing, so much better than he did before. Great job with him! 

And his spots have shadows around them!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

AlexS said:


> Shoot I wish I had known there was extra weight going for free, my Lucas could do with some. Sigh! They are a battle one way or another.
> 
> Indy, he looks amazing, so much better than he did before. Great job with him!
> 
> And his spots have shadows around them!



Haha, wish I could have taken some of his blub and just transferred it on to Freyja! 

Lol yeah I love the ring-around-the-spots he has. Someone told me before those are called "halos", that was either AB or Chey who told me that but I can't remember for sure. You can't normally see the skin-color change quite so obviously on his belly - it's only visible because he is wet in the last round of pictures, having gotten sprayed down after I rode and got him all sweaty lol.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Halos makes sense, and I love a good color convo!


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## drafts4ever (Sep 1, 2009)

He looks amazing! I've always loved your horses they are all so beautiful! Great work with getting that chubby boy down to size! He looks great!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Alex, argh lol  Figures it would be you girls making the color comments! At least this time the request for a critique has stayed fairly well on topic lol.

Drafts, thanks! And we can have mutual horse envy, I've been in love with Caleigh since day 1!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

He looks gorgeous Indy. I've been looking for this thread since I saw your new avatar. Had to see the rest of the pics!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Oh, boy, he WAS a fat one. Looks 100% better (more elegant too).


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

MN thanks! Haha AB made me change it. 

kitten_Val, thank you, I think it's been a vast improvement, it just took so darn long! And we aren't done yet, but I am happy with the progress in terms of the weight loss side of things.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Made is a very strong word.

Giggle.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Made is a very strong word.
> 
> Giggle.


:wink: You think I don't know all about you and your jedi mind tricks? :lol:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I did not realize those were common knowledge.


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## Starlite (Jan 25, 2011)

These photos are a true testament to just how important a proper diet and excercise regimen are to true responsible ownership. amazing transformation!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Indyhorse said:


> I think it's been a vast improvement, it just took so darn long! And we aren't done yet, but I am happy with the progress in terms of the weight loss side of things.


Indy, sorry for the dumb question, but why does it take so long to loose all that extra weight? I mean, of course you do it gradually (not just take away all grass and hay  ), but sounds like it takes way longer than other way around (bringing weight on skinny horse).


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I have been wondering the same thing about my own weight loss.

Laugh.


I think with an easy keeper it is such a delicate balance between starving them (risking ulcer, colic, etc) and feeding them.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I have been wondering the same thing about my own weight loss.
> 
> Laugh.


Switch to lots of apples - you'll loose in no time! I did it once while back - 2 months and like 20 lbs were gone. (I'm serious, BTW, the digesting of one apple takes more calories than apple itself so you are in fact loosing as you eat).



Alwaysbehind said:


> I think with an easy keeper it is such a delicate balance between starving them (risking ulcer, colic, etc) and feeding them.


Oh, I see... Since we have too many threads about hard keepers here I did forget about such a thing as easy keeper!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Another dumb question, how is he now with feed and hay with the rest of your crew? Is he more aggressive?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Switch to lots of apples - you'll loose in no time! I did it once while back - 2 months and like 20 lbs were gone. (I'm serious, BTW, the digesting of one apple takes more calories than apple itself so you are in fact loosing as you eat).


:shock:
I suppose this would work because I would be in the bathroom ALL the time. There is a little too much fiber in apples to eat more than a couple of them per day.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> :shock:
> I suppose *this would work because I would be in the bathroom ALL the tim*e. There is a little too much fiber in apples to eat more than a couple of them per day.


Bahahahahahah.... Actually I never had "bathroom" effect with the apples. As for calories I read it in NIH (but from personal experience and that my cousin-in-law(?) keeps herself in good weight by eating lots of apples I can believe that). You don't eat only apples of course, you just introduce bunch of them into the diet substituting some other stuff.

P.S. ONLY apples would be way too bad.... 

P.P.S. Sorry, Indy, we went way off-topic in your thread...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Only slightly off topic, I am sure Claymore would love to be on a diet of apples.

What is NIH?


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Starlite, thanks!

Kitten, Like AB said, it was kind of a long process because I didn't want him to drop too much weight too quickly and literally be starving him. Plus a big part of my approach was replacing fat with muscle in the right areas, because as a harness horse he was built up in all the wrong places. My horses are only stalled in the worst of winter, and then only at night, the rest of the time they are pastured. So limiting his intake was reliant on the use of the grazing muzzle, which I honestly hate using and feel like a big meany but it was necessary. That's why I did the rotating schedule with him, I didn't want him to be standing around all day with an empty stomach and risk other problems either. And haha no worries I have no issue with threads going off topic. I often derail my own threads, myself! lol

Alex, he's always been a very dominant horse anyways, with other geldings in the pasture. But he's never been food aggressive at all. He doesn't chase anyone off hay. He only chases the geldings away from the mares. Since I keep usually at LEAST a pair of round bales out at all times in different areas, there is always room for everyone to eat without getting chased off. Only 4 of the horses get grained right now (Freyja, Finn, Stiffler, and Monty) and they are let into the barn and get grained in their stalls, so I never have squabbles over grain. As of right now I don't have enough grass grown up in my pasture yet to need to start muzzling, but in the next month or so I will need to go back to that plan.

AB, I have to be careful with apples too! :lol:


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Only slightly off topic, I am sure Claymore would love to be on a diet of apples.
> 
> What is NIH?


I'd think (correct me if I'm wrong) apples, carrots, pears and alike should be given in limited quantities. Just a thought. I'm sure MY horses would love apple/pear diet! :wink: 

NIH = National Institute of Health in Bethesda. 

Indy, how much workout / week do you put on him? (may be you mentioned it somewhere already, but I missed it)


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Indy, how much workout / week do you put on him? (may be you mentioned it somewhere already, but I missed it)



Last summer/fall he was worked 30 min a day(minimum, sometimes longer of course, but I always got out and schooled for at least 30 min if nothing else). Over the winter I sucked and he was probably only rode 1-2x weekly, which is why this spring he lacks the muscle definition he had last fall. Right now he is being worked at least 3x a week and gradually increasing, in the next month or two I plan to have him back into daily work.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'll be curious to see pics when he'll be put in full work. Should change even more!


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

So he shows signs of being foundered...did you ever take him to a vet and actually get x rays? I think that should have been one of the first things I would have done before getting him ready to be rode again. If he HAS foundered you need to see how much if any, he has rotated. I wouldn't ever ride a foundered horse without knowing how much that coffin bone had rotated. Did you get him checked by a good farrier who had worked with foundered horses? He looks better but still chubby.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

horsecrazy84 said:


> So he shows signs of being foundered...did you ever take him to a vet and actually get x rays? I think that should have been one of the first things I would have done before getting him ready to be rode again. If he HAS foundered you need to see how much if any, he has rotated. I wouldn't ever ride a foundered horse without knowing how much that coffin bone had rotated. Did you get him checked by a good farrier who had worked with foundered horses? He looks better but still chubby.


Oh hoh, you are funny. Yes, actually, he has been xrayed. Twice. See, I don't neglect my horses or ignore lameness like some people do. His first xray, taken 7/29/2009, showed very minor rotation in his front right, and no rotation at all in his front left. The follow up x ray taken 2/10/2010 showed all rotation had been corrected. I worked closely with a barefoot specialist trimming him every four weeks for a year, while learning to trim barefoot myself, and have maintained his feet myself for the last year after having attended a clinic and putting a massive amount of work into studying and continuing education myself in learning how to properly correct and maintain his feet. He is now pasture ridden barefoot, but off property he is rode booted with pads. See I don't toss my horses out and just say, "oh gosh, they're fine."


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Indy, you should have just let him go. He may have eventually turned that lameness into being gaited!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> Indy, you should have just let him go. He may have eventually turned that lameness into being gaited!


:rofl:
.......


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Well I wasn't sure, you didn't mention anything about him being x rayed. His feet look ok but not great, but better than most drafts. Nice that you learned how to trim him yourself. Educating yourself is always a good thing. I really learned a lot from my equine science classes.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

horsecrazy84 said:


> He looks better but still chubby.


I don't see chubby?

Indy you've done a horrible job, that boy looks awful, but I'll make you a deal. I'll send a trailer along, you shove him on it and I'll hide him up here, no one will ever notice, they'll just think it's G Man. That will save you having to explain why your horse suddenly appears to have ribs:lol::lol:

Seriously, the boy looks fantastic, and once he has muscled up again he will be a stunner. I have to say though he does have the most amazing stink eye look there.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, I guess, with an uneducated eye, it's easy to mistake being "chubby" for being "drafty".

Indy, would you come help me work on some of mine? I think that I have quite a few that could benefit from your diet plan, plus, I have hills to ride Claymore on .


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## Magaidh (Apr 13, 2011)

horsecrazy84 said:


> His feet look ok but not great,


Pretty hard to say from these pics, but from what I can see his feet look beautiful! Great job with trimming. It's nice to see more people learning to do it themselves.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Cori, :rofl::rofl::rofl::clap::clap::clap:



horsecrazy84 said:


> Well I wasn't sure, you didn't mention anything about him being x rayed. His feet look ok but not great, but better than most drafts.


Funny thing about that. I didn't mention it, as it was unrelated to the thread topic. On this thread I was asking for a critique of his weight loss, not asking for a critique about his feet. Had this thread been in the health section and I was asking for suggestions about his feet, I assure you I would have provided a full medical history of the work done on his feet. I didn't find it necessary in this thread.

GH, only if I could have G-man in trade! lol The neighbors would notice the spotty butt missing from my pastures, otherwise! :lol:

Smrobs - again you tempt me! i'll get out there sooner or later. 

Magaidh - Thanks! They are getting there. They are still not perfect, and I still have things to correct, but they have come a long, long way.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Indyhorse said:


> GH, only if I could have G-man in trade! lol The neighbors would notice the spotty butt missing from my pastures, otherwise! :lol:


Life just wouldn't be the same without a few spots to poke would it?:lol:

Just have to say again, I love that pic of him walking, just the tiniest hint of rib showing there, for a solid built boy like him he really doesn't need to be any lighter, looks just about darn perfect!


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

I think you should send him to England and he can be my show cob, he's a stunner and looks amazing now he's lost the weight.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

GH, Nope, we need our spots! He sees me coming with my finger out and goes running across the pasture lol. I don't want to get more weight off of him at this point, I'm happy with his weight now, I just want to now concentrate on building muscle. I'm one of those never-satisfied people, I always see SOMETHING that needs improvement, which is why I asked for the critique lol. :lol:

Lis, oh gee, thanks! The thought my mutt boy could be anyone's show cob gets me all blushy


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

He's a stunner, big and solid with lovely legs and he'd definitely get noticed with that spotty bum!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Wow, if not for his coloring I would not have believed it was the same horse! Great job.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

He looks absolutely stunning Indy!


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## Reininginga (Jun 3, 2011)

This horse is gorgeous! Well done on the weight loss!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

_*Just a friendly reminder about Etiquette Policy! *_(after removing bunch of posts)

Please, stay on track of the thread and don't go personal!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Indy...I have to say, he just doesn't even look like the same horse (aside from the obvious coloring makes him the same horse!). You've done well by him!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> _*Just a friendly reminder about Etiquette Policy! *_(after removing bunch of posts)
> 
> Please, stay on track of the thread and don't go personal!



Aww, and I had such a fun, long reply typed out. lol 

Thanks, Kitten.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Indyhorse said:


> Aww, and I had such a fun, long reply typed out. lol


Me to, I do hate that:lol:


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Me to, I do hate that:lol:


They took away Alex being my knight in shining armor though. Bummer! That made me *swoon* lol. 

But they have their jobs to do and I guess I am appreciative. I would have certainly gotten myself in trouble if I had posted lol. Thank you Kitten for saving me from myself! :lol:

Really though, thank you also Natisha, MM, Reining, and M2P for the compliments.


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## Starlite (Jan 25, 2011)

I keep coming back and looking at him...i heart claymore!,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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