# Cowboy has Coosa Lad in him!!??



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

So my gelding Cowboy has some Coosa Lad blood in him! I was so ecstatic to hear this! :happydance:
Coosa Lad is either his sire, or grand sire and I was wondering if you guys could help me out.

The original owners of Cowboy didn't sell his papers to the next owner (I'm friends with her so we talked and this was how I found out) and now I'm kind of bummed that there are no papers for him. But he is registered. And was also halter bred. 

Now my main question for you guys is can you guys help me figure out what his registered name is, and who his dam is, and if Coosa Lad is his grandsire, then who his sire is? I'm also hoping there are some pictures of him and his mother, and of him as a foal. *hoping* haha 

Thanks soooo much everyone if you can help! Here's some pictures of Cowboy, and Coosa Lad's stallion info. He was sadly put down in 2008 though.  Wix.com AllAroundShowHorses created by mystallions2 based on Real Estate Biz

Also, Cowboy is either 7 or 8 atm, pretty sure 8


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Are you sure he was originally registered? Can you contact the breeders by back-tracking through previous sellers to find out the mare's name and/or his registered name? Though I must say that getting his papers will probably be a PITA, if even possible. If he IS registered, you can do a progeny search through AQHA for Coosa Lad and try a process of elimination on his foals....but if he has a lot, this could prove very tedious.

I assume his back is a congenital fault. Is he rideable? Does it cause him problems? Do you know of any other related offspring that have that same deformity?


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> I assume his back is a congenital fault. Is he rideable? Does it cause him problems? Do you know of any other related offspring that have that same deformity?


I'm not sure what you mean by this lol, are you talking about how he is bum high? And also, these pictures are taking on a hill, but they are the best body shots I have of him atm lol. And yes! I ride him all the time lol, he can jump about 3'9" but we stick to around 2' for daily work. And also I'm kind of baffled how Cowboy is halter bred because he has such bad conformation! Like I love my boy and all lol, but he paddles, his toes are turn out, pretty sure he is pigeon toed lol.. And a bunch of people tell me he needs to see a chiropractor. But I personally think it's the picture. Anywho, I'm not really interested in having his papers to hold and show off and what not because right now we don't go to shows or anything..He's just like a back yard horse for me  

I'm just really curious to know his bloodlines and what not. And I looked up Coosa Lad's foals and got to this page Quarter Horse Directory - Horse Descriptions but it's really hard to narrow down the geldings and all when I'm not sure of Cowboy's birth year and his registered name..plus they names don't have pictures which makes it even harder!! :twisted:


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

lubylol said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by this lol, are you talking about how he is bum high? And also, these pictures are taking on a hill, but they are the best body shots I have of him atm lol. And yes! I ride him all the time lol, he can jump about 3'9" but we stick to around 2' for daily work. And also I'm kind of baffled how Cowboy is halter bred because he has such bad conformation! Like I love my boy and all lol, but he paddles, his toes are turn out, pretty sure he is pigeon toed lol.. And a bunch of people tell me he needs to see a chiropractor. But I personally think it's the picture. Anywho, I'm not really interested in having his papers to hold and show off and what not because right now we don't go to shows or anything..He's just like a back yard horse for me
> 
> I'm just really curious to know his bloodlines and what not. And I looked up Coosa Lad's foals and got to this page Quarter Horse Directory - Horse Descriptions but it's really hard to narrow down the geldings and all when I'm not sure of Cowboy's birth year and his registered name..plus they names don't have pictures which makes it even harder!! :twisted:


No, it's not the pictures. He's pretty badly roachbacked. I'm not sure a Chiro could help, much. Good luck tracking down his papers


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Going through AQHA would be your best bet--you'll need to be a member, or find someone who is a member, and then you can look up color, gender, and birth year of all of CL's get and grandget. But I imagine he's got dozens of sorrel geldings out there, so finding the right one is going to be hard. Though at least you have some idea of the DOB. But you're taking the word of someone you don't even know that he ever even was registered.

He looks halter bred to me. He has the shoulder, neck, head, and front legs (including fine bone and small feet). But for his back, I was referring not so much to being butt high as to the giant roach (perhaps in this case lordosis is a more appropriate turn, though it's convex instead of concave structure we're looking at). I think that this spinal deviation is causing him trouble and pain, which is what's causing him to hold his hind legs out behind and have what appears to be muscle atrophy in the hip. A chiropractor might be able to help a little, but I don't know how much...


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Yep, Cowboy is roach backed... you can do a search on this and see many others with this condition... as far as finding out if he was registered... that will be impossible, I am afraid...

You would need to know both mare and sire, and then both would have to have DNA type done to verify parentage in order for AQHA to issue you papers ... I have done that with a yearling I bought from auction and luckily both parents were alive and in my state. It was a pain and expensive. 

It is obvious you love your guy, and I am glad he found you. With a roached back horse you need to be careful of saddle fit and he will have a much harder time collecting and getting under himself, so just be aware of his physical limitations...


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Not the best equitation ever, but this is 3'9"

And also, just another pic or 2 of him.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

thanks guys  and yeah ace i know his limitations and what not, he is quite a challenge to ride too since he'll test you lol. but once you collect him up he's nice. Now if only he could get into frame... hmmmmm :lol:


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I'd be concerned that he's testing you because he hurts, and not because he wants to be a butt


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

MsBHavin said:


> I'd be concerned that he's testing you because he hurts, and not because he wants to be a butt


well no, we've tried everything, he is just being stupid at times because he doesn't do it anymore. but btw, this thread is about his pedigree, not conformation.. T_T


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

MsBHavin said:


> I'd be concerned that he's testing you because he hurts, and not because he wants to be a butt



I would be concerned about that as well, he is an interesting shape for sure.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

Well, as far as his pedigree, you just don't have enough to go on. Coosa Lad may or may not be his sire or grand-sire... you don't have a mare, a sire (for sure), or a birth year. You don't even really know if he was ever registered... though it is likely the original owners didn't sell his papers because his roach back would reflect negatively on his parents, and they would just as soon not let anyone know their sire or dam produced him. 

I am not sure you even see what we are seeing when looking at him, you have him and are used to the bump... take a good look tomorrow and then look at another horse at the barn and see the difference. Right where the back of his spine arches up and then meets his butt... 

It isn't a dig on you or Cowboy, he looks happy and its obvious you are in love with him and treat him well... being aware of his condition will help you care for him if he develops problems caused by his back...please don't get offended, people here just want to make sure you have the tools you need to care for him...


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

lubylol said:


> The original owners of Cowboy didn't sell his papers to the next owner (I'm friends with her so we talked and this was how I found out) and now I'm kind of bummed that there are no papers for him. But he is registered. And was also halter bred.



Surely your friend who bought him from the people who kept his papers, can look them up and email them for you


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## mysticalhorse (Apr 27, 2011)

Dont ignore what the members here are trying ever so nicely to tell you. Look into care for your horses back..... I am a complete novice wgen it come to confo but even I can see how sever his roach back is.... they just want to help!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

MsBHavin said:


> I'd be concerned that he's testing you because he hurts, and not because he wants to be a butt



Defiantly not being a butt he's just telling you his butt hurts


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

lubylol said:


> well no, we've tried everything, he is just being stupid at times because he doesn't do it anymore. but btw, this thread is about his pedigree, not conformation.. T_T



Not about conformation we are concerned with pain issue's he may be having horses are never stupid , horses communicate the best way they know how, its on us to be smart enough to figure out what they need.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Golden Horse said:


> I would be concerned about that as well, he is an interesting shape for sure.


Not only the back issue, but as Bubba said he is obviously halter bred and, although I know very little about jumping, logic tells me his heavy muscle/light bone conformation isn't what one would look for in a horse used for jumping even if his back wasn't an issue.

Also, if you don't know his full ancestry, Coosa Lad was N/N so is OK, but you might want to see if you can dig up his bottom side. If it were me and I didn't know the bottom side, I would get him tested for HYPP in case he has Impressive down there too...I'm not sure I would be comfortable using an N/H for jumping...I would be too afraid of a collapse...


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Sorry I wasn't trying to be rude about any of this. But I already know about his bad conformation and what I need to do about it. Sorry if it came off rude. And when I first met him I noticed the roach back and always thought it was a hunter's bump until I told someone that their horse had a hunter's bump like cowboy and someone was like noo, it's a roach back and I was like ohh haha guess Cowboy has that too. 

I'm pretty sure Coosa Lad is in his blood because my friend Heidi (latest owner I know, she's the friend who bought Cowboy as a 3 yr old..they previous owners didn't give the papers away with him) said that, and said some other stuff too.

And also I'll look into going to the AQHA website and stuff, but everyone keeps telling me about getting papers..I don't want papers I would just like to be able to be like hey, my horse has some good bloodlines, you know to be proud of it. I'm not interested in having the papers in hand, but just knowing his background and history would be a cool story to tell you know?


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

lubylol said:


> Sorry I wasn't trying to be rude about any of this. But I already know about his bad conformation and what I need to do about it. Sorry if it came off rude. And when I first met him I noticed the roach back and always thought it was a hunter's bump until I told someone that their horse had a hunter's bump like cowboy and someone was like noo, it's a roach back and I was like ohh haha guess Cowboy has that too.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Coosa Lad is in his blood because my friend Heidi (latest owner I know, she's the friend who bought Cowboy as a 3 yr old..they previous owners didn't give the papers away with him) said that, and said some other stuff too.
> 
> And also I'll look into going to the AQHA website and stuff, but everyone keeps telling me about getting papers..I don't want papers I would just like to be able to be like hey, my horse has some good bloodlines, you know to be proud of it. I'm not interested in having the papers in hand, but just knowing his background and history would be a cool story to tell you know?


Ya know you cant ride papers and I know my Dusty is a reg QH but his papers were lost 2 owners ago and ya know I dont know who he came from and he is my heart horse he is my rock has taught me so much and given me much more than I could ever give him thats all I need to know about him. Health wise would be my only concern of where he came from but he is older and is arthritic and if I or my vet had any concerns of a genetic disease then I'd just have him tested but other than that I have no need for them.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Ya know you cant ride papers and I know my Dusty is a reg QH but his papers were lost 2 owners ago and ya know I dont know who he came from and he is my heart horse he is my rock has taught me so much and given me much more than I could ever give him thats all I need to know about him. Health wise would be my only concern of where he came from but he is older and is arthritic and if I or my vet had any concerns of a genetic disease then I'd just have him tested but other than that I have no need for them.


yes i know this. but still papers don't mean anything..like I said I just want to know his background info.  and yeah Cowboy has taught me SOO much too <3


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

GUYS I HAVE PICTURES OF COWBOY FROM 2005 YAY! 

I'll post them tomorrow heheehe 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

We can try to look around but I'm doubting we'll figure it out. That being said. I would suggest that you have your horse tested for HYPP because he is out of the Coosa bloodlines and if memory serves me, He was an Impressive bred stud. Many times when papers don't go with the horse, it's to hide the fact that it is HYPP/NH or HH.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

...actually, I just looked up Coosa and he was NN so the worry meter just went way down.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

*Color*: sor
*Height*: 16.0

#1868917

HYPP N/N
H-53
Superior Halter 
1982 AQHA World Weanling Halter Champion 
2 Times AQHA Reserve World Champion Halter 
AQHA Champion Sire 
74% Foundation 
Sire of: 375 performers winning 4,832 Halter points and 1,643 Performance points 
9 World Champions, 7 Reserve World Champions, 20 Superior Halter Horses, 5 Superior Performance Horses, 162 ROM Earners


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

here is coosa lad info

*Color*: ch
*Height*: 15.3H

AQHA-2719979

HYPP N/N
Current AQHA Leading Sire 
*Sire of:*
260+ AQHA point earners with Congress and World Champions 
Sired winners in Western Pleasure, Hunter Under Saddle and Halter.
Multiple All Time Leading Sire
2nd Congress Amateur
Weanling Stallions
3rd AQHA World Show Amateur Yearling Geldings
Futurity Champions
Superior Horses
AQHA Champions
ROM & Money Earners ($200.266,86.00)

Deceased


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

lubylol said:


> Now if only he could get into frame... hmmmmm :lol:


True collection and a true frame might not be something he will ever be able to do with out pain because of his conformation.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Ace80908 said:


> You don't even really know if he was ever registered... though it is likely the original owners didn't sell his papers because his roach back would reflect negatively on his parents, and they would just as soon not let anyone know their sire or dam produced him.


This is exactly right. 

I'd lay odds since he has such a severe roach, his breeders never registered him and would deny any knowledge of him even if you could find them.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

lubylol said:


> well no, we've tried everything, he is just being stupid at times because he doesn't do it anymore. but btw, this thread is about his pedigree, not conformation.. T_T


However, due to his conformation - his papers were possibly destroyed.

There are very specific exercises to help with a roach back to ensure the horse can move as freely with as little discomfort as possible. Jumping however is one of the things you should not do.


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## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

mls said:


> However, due to his conformation - his papers were possibly destroyed.
> 
> There are very specific exercises to help with a roach back to ensure the horse can move as freely with as little discomfort as possible. Jumping however is one of the things you should not do.


Not to go off topic but my horse has a much milder roach back. He wasn't registered, likely because of it even though he could've been. So on topic, cowboy may not have been registered due to those faults. Off topic, the vet wasn't concerned about my horses roach back and thought he should be able to do anything a normal horse would. Should I look into said exercises and where would I find them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Dresden, the difference might be that your horse has a mild roach and is not built extremely down hill on top of it.
This horse has a pretty serious roach and has down hill conformation with small halter horse legs to boot.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Dresden said:


> the vet wasn't concerned about my horses roach back and thought he should be able to do anything a normal horse would. Should I look into said exercises and where would I find them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hopefully if your vet wasn't concerned, it is truly a mild roach and not a case of the vet doesn't know enough and doesn't want to show his ignorance.

You need to build and maintain the back for optimum support. Trotting over ground poles is a very good exercise. The horse needs to have a strong core (abs) to support his back. Anytime the head is UP the back is down. Playing with a ball (pushing, etc) is another good one. Carrot stretches are good too.

When your horse rolls, can he flip over or does he have to get up to roll on the other side?


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## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

He can flip over and he is not built downhill. He's got very straight solid legs, not tiny halter bred hooves  He is rather short strided. Might that be related?

We trot ground poles a week or so. Is that often enough? He gets ridden 5-6 times a week. Also, forgive my ignorance but what are carrot stretches? And do I want to try to keep his head up? Or do I want to get him to stretch it down to build core strength?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Dresden, I had to ask that very same question awhile back.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/carrot-stretches-81039/


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Wow. :shock: That is one of the most severe roach backs I have seen.

Well, maybe aside from this one.

http://vichorse.com/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=122327&private=0

:lol:

I agree that I would not be jumping him.
I also agree that if he _was_ registered his papers have probably been destroyed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Dresden said:


> He can flip over and he is not built downhill. He's got very straight solid legs, not tiny halter bred hooves  He is rather short strided. Might that be related?
> 
> We trot ground poles a week or so. Is that often enough? He gets ridden 5-6 times a week. Also, forgive my ignorance but what are carrot stretches? And do I want to try to keep his head up? Or do I want to get him to stretch it down to build core strength?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Our vet recommended to a boarder that the horse be worked mimimum 3 times a week. So 5-6 should be wonderful!

Head level - or in a correct frame. Not inverted.


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## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

Thank you so much, mls and always  I will stop dragging the thread off topic now. Thank you, thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

You added some good information to the thread, actually. I learned something.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Alwaysbehind said:


> You added some good information to the thread, actually. I learned something.


Hopefully others did too . . . 

You are welcome Dresden!


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

10/21/05 

Cowboy was 3 yrs old in these


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Btw, I always thought Cowboy was just bum high. 

What's the difference between a roach back and bum high?


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Butt high is exactly what it's called. the horses butt is higher than it's withers. 

Roach back is an upwards curve in the spine, some are mild and some are severe. Cowboy has a pretty wicked roach back, but it's not nearly as bad as some i've seen, but it's still bad.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Oh, and I read above that you shouldn't jump horses that have a roach back..but Cowboy has no problem jumping..

And also, with the papers situation..in order to show at rated shows, doesn't your horse have to be registered?


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

lubylol said:


> Oh, and I read above that you shouldn't jump horses that have a roach back..but Cowboy has no problem jumping..


You shouldn't jump him because it hurts. If it were a mild roach back, you might be able to jump him, however, his is far from mild.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Wouldn't he show if it hurts? Like buck or pin his ears? All of our pictures of him jumping his ears are forward, and he actually enjoys jumping. He always tries to go towards the jump and I gotta pull him away.

I'll have a vet out soon to have a second opinion and maybe a chiro after


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

lubylol said:


> thanks guys  and yeah ace i know his limitations and what not, he is quite a challenge to ride too since he'll test you lol. but once you collect him up he's nice. Now if only he could get into frame... hmmmmm :lol:


You've said it yourself. He tests you, to me he's probably trying to tell you it hurts.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

I meant test you as being stupid. The old BO rode him and said so herself. He didn't try to buck her because she knew how to ride. While I was still considering myself a little more than a beginner.

He doesn't buck anymore, but when he does it's only because I get left behind on the jump, but he usually saves me on them and doesn't buck.

Please don't tell me how he acts when you don't know or ride him.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

lubylol said:


> I meant test you as being stupid. The old BO rode him and said so herself. He didn't try to buck her because she knew how to ride. While I was still considering myself a little more than a beginner.
> 
> He doesn't buck anymore, but when he does it's only because I get left behind on the jump, but he usually saves me on them and doesn't buck.
> 
> Please don't tell me how he acts when you don't know or ride him.



We're only going on the info you've posted.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Well sorry, I thought I'd just make it clear.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Whether it hurts him or not, although it probably does, is not as relevant as his basic conformation not being conducive to jumping. As any good horse, he will do what is asked of him, but because of his conformation jumping will always place him at risk of injury.

Using him for jumping is similar to using a Belgian for a 30 mile endurance run. The Belgian may go as long as you let him, but without vet check stations to stop him when he needs it he would be at risk of injury - or worse.

Different horses are bred and conformed for different types of use. As a halter bred horse, your Cowboy has an imbalance in the ratio of his weight to the strength of his bones and joints - similar to the lighter bones and joints for their weight in racing Thoroughbreds to enhance speed, which makes them prone to injury. Whenever you have that imbalance, you increase the odds of injury. That is not to say it is inevitable that your guy jumping or a TB racing WILL get injured - it just means there is more risk than a more naturally balanced horse.

I am not being critical, nor am I advising you what to do - I'm just pointing out that his conformation is not suited to what you are using him for and there is a risk of injury. Understand though that we all place our horses at risk to one degree or another by using them, so it's not as if you are doing anything "bad". We all draw the line in a different place balancing use vs. risk...it is a personal decision and only in the most extreme cases is use clearly abuse, and I certainly don't classify your use of him as abusive. It is my opinion however, that you should weigh things carefully and step back and consider if this is the right horse for your discipline, or if this the right discipline for your horses.

Just my opinion, of course...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

lubylol said:


> And when I first met him I noticed the roach back and always thought it was a hunter's bump until I told someone that their horse had a hunter's bump like cowboy and someone was like noo, it's a roach back and I was like ohh haha guess Cowboy has that too.


How did you go from telling us you know he has a roached back to asking us what a roached back is?



lubylol said:


> Btw, I always thought Cowboy was just bum high.
> 
> What's the difference between a roach back and bum high?



Your sweet boy has had this problem for a long time. Hold photos of your boy up next to conformation photos of another QH (pick one with down hill conformation even, they are easy to find in the QH world). Look at how his back is shaped and then look at how their back is shaped.

Do you see how right in front of his croup he bumps up? 

His spine is curved. Think scoliosis in a horse.

I am not saying he is not butt high. He truly is. But part of the reason he looks so very butt high is that because of the curvature of his spine his whole back end is shaped funky.




MsBHavin said:


> You shouldn't jump him because it hurts. If it were a mild roach back, you might be able to jump him, however, his is far from mild.


I have to agree.

It sounds like your boy has a wonderful personality and is willing to do whatever you ask him to do, no matter what. 
I am not sure that means you should make him do whatever it is that you want to do.



FACEMAN said:


> It is my opinion however, that you should weigh things carefully and step back and consider if this is the right horse for your discipline, or if this the right discipline for your horses.​



Face totally hit the nail on the head here.


​


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

lubylol said:


> And also, with the papers situation..in order to show at rated shows, doesn't your horse have to be registered?


No, he needs registration papers to show at_ breed_ shows, most of which are rated. There are plenty of rated shows that don't require registration papers.

I'm betting he was a cull, which means he was never registered because his breeders didn't want anyone to know the sire and dam produced a horse with that major roach back. It's a genetic defect, so of course the breeders wouldn't want anyone to know that horse was out of any of their breeding stock.

Trust me, him not being registered wasn't an oversight; it was completely planned because of that roach back of his.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

lubylol said:


> r.
> 
> He doesn't buck anymore, but when he does it's only because I get left behind on the jump, but he usually saves me on them and doesn't buck.


He doesn't buck anymore, but he does??? Color me confused.


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## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

So did you talk to his current owner( your second cousin according to a different thread) about his papers? Or a friend who owned him before your cousin bought him? That's what I am confused about... 

Also if you are wanting to show(and jump at that) this really may not be the best horse for you to purchase assuming you are still considering buying him(again according to your other thread)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Ohh, ok well I guess we're good for the kind of shows I want to do.

When I say he doesn't buck anymore, but only does it when, blah blah. I mean like... When I first started riding him, he would buck so much, but he was also very green and wasn't being ridden much. And now the only time he bucks is to tell me like, "hey watch how you jump", or "stop pushing me to go because I'm so lazy" lol.

And I might consider buying him, just probably not in the next year. 

So what you guys are telling me is that I can't jump him? I'm really confused because I'd hate to stop jumping him when we've come so far with it. He was the horse I learned to jump on, and learned to canter jumps. Ever since I almost fell off of him while we jumped, I was so scared but I trusted him in letting me canter jumps with him again, and now we've even jumped 3'9" together. Although that's not a daily thing. Our daily jumping height is 2' or 2'6" but no higher.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

In all honesty I would quit jumping him.

ETA As someone with scoliosis, I cannot see how he can be even remotely comfortable jumping every single day with his back as bad as it is. It makes my lower back hurt just to think about it!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

lubylol said:


> our daily jumping height is 2' or 2'6" but no higher.


*d a i l y??*


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

If you're serious about jumping, I wouldn't buy this horse to do it. I realize the effort you put into him, but with his back the way he will more than likely become arthritic or what not at an earlier age then if he didn't have the roach back. Just my opinion!


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

OH I DIDN'T MEAN DAILY LIKE TODAY, TOMORROW, YESTERDAY. OOPS.

When I say daily, I mean once a week...

and o.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

I am little confused here. I read in part that the horse belongs to your friend, but you refer to him as "my boy".

If he is not yours DON'T buy him. He is a conformational wreck.

Here in your words.



lubylol said:


> but he paddles, his toes are turn out, pretty sure he is pigeon toed lol.. And a bunch of people tell me he needs to see a chiropractor.


Also with the roach back that makes him a pasture ornament in my mind.

There are horses that are used with faults but the possibility of them breaking down with overuse is very very high.

IF you jump him at all it should be limited to no more than twice a week and in the 2 foot range, but I personally wouldn't jump him at all.

If you somehow got ownership of him them please make sure he is well rubbed down after EACH AND EVERY workout you do to maintain his soundness ( however sound that is).

As far as his registration, I agree the stallion owner probably doesn't want this horse associated with them in any way.

I know if my horse produced such a wreck I sure would not. Thank goodness my boy has produced nice looking conformational correct babies.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

So are you jumping him daily, every other day or once a week? You have three different time frames there... :?


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

lubylol said:


> When I say he doesn't buck anymore, but only does it when, blah blah. I mean like... *When I first started riding him, he would buck so much, but he was also very green and wasn't being ridden much.* And now the only time he bucks is to tell me like, "hey watch how you jump", or "stop pushing me to go because I'm so lazy" lol.


I bet money that he bucked alot because he was in pain, there is no way that horse isnt in pain :? And i bet money he still randomly bucks because of the pain. Not because he is "lazy", there is a difference between lazyness and pain. I feel like your not taking into account what these people are telling you and your only "hearing what you want to hear". 

Put your horses needs infront of your wants. Your horse needs to stop being jumped and most likely needs to stop being ridden in general. 

I can hardly believe a vet would not mention anything about this causing him pain. Listen to what these people are telling you. Your horse is not built to handle jumping as it is even without the roach back.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

What I want to see is the saddle that you ride this horse in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

lubylol said:


> Ohh, ok well I guess we're good for the kind of shows I want to do.


I am not sure how you got that out of what has been said here.
What kind of shows do you do?



lubylol said:


> I mean like... When I first started riding him, he would buck so much, but he was also very green and wasn't being ridden much. And now the only time he bucks is to tell me like, "hey watch how you jump", or "stop pushing me to go because I'm so lazy" lol.


Delete already said it very well but it is worth repeating.

This horse (not sure who owns it, confused by that part) bucks because it is in pain. Not because it is lazy. I am betting moving with a rider on its back is painful and difficult for him. He is not moving because of that, not because he is lazy. 



lubylol said:


> So what you guys are telling me is that I can't jump him? I'm really confused because I'd hate to stop jumping him when we've come so far with it. He was the horse I learned to jump on, and learned to canter jumps. Ever since I almost fell off of him while we jumped, I was so scared but I trusted him in letting me canter jumps with him again, and now we've even jumped 3'9" together. Although that's not a daily thing. Our daily jumping height is 2' or 2'6" but no higher.


So not sure where to start with that.

Since you have been exaggerating the truth throughout the entire post I am going to assume that you are not really jumping this poor boy over 3'9" jumps. If you are, shame on you. 

I am not sure how you can be confused.

Two choices. Do what you want or do what is best for the horse. Pick which choice you think is best.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Ok first off. I do not like being messaged telling me to quit riding Cowboy. IF I have to, I will ride Cowboy bareback.

Second, you guys do NOT know him so you don't even know how he really acts.

Third, yes I've exaggerated on things, but that's just how I talk. I ride Cowboy at least once a week for a few hours, then go for a swim with him. We jump about 2' every ride unless we go out on the trails. Cowboy has only been jumped 3'9" for 2 rides. Once in January, and once a month ago. No not exaggerating on the height thank you very much.

Cowboy isn't a lazy horse and will go when I tell him. But if I ride him for a couple hours and try to squeeze one last canter in, we'll canter and when he tries to stop he will buck, so I make him canter a few more strides then stop him.

Please do not tell me how to ride him, and what not. I'm having a vet out soon to look at his back if anyone cares.

I will post pictures of my saddle in a bit, it's an all purpose, no name english saddle. It fits him well. 

And my types of shows are 4h shows, where you just have to sign up, and maybe doing MWHA or MSA in the future, which are rated shows, which is why I asked about the papers.

</3 is not teen talk. It's a heart, that is broken..a broken heart.

After our rides, if it is hot out I will rub him with lidament and then hose him off, and when it isn't too hot but he's still sweaty then I will just hose him off.

If you guys think Cowboy has a "Severe roach back" then please look again. Cowboy only has a mild one. These are severe.

Google Images
Google Images
Google Images
Google Images

And also read this thread on roached back. Read the post where she jumps 1m and her horse is the last picture I posted.

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/roached-back-101759.html

I'm about to just quit horse forum because of this. You guys are acting like you know everything, when you guys are just being know it alls acting like you are a vet. Just because a horse has a roach back, doesn't mean you can't jump him, let alone RIDE him. Cowboy is only 8 and has his whole life in front of him. We are not going to let this get in our way just because some HF users say it will.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Looking forward to the pics of his saddle. Preferably on him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

And also I call Cowboy mine because he is my mom's cousin's horse..I just call her my Aunt.

I have been riding him and caring for him for over a year and his owner doesn't come down and see him, and I've bought most of his stuff, so I call him mine.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

This one you posted - 









Is exactly what cowboy looks like. If you cannot see that then you are apparently wearing rose colored glassed when it comes to Cowboy.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> This one you posted -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sorry for the double post.

For comparison's sake...

The horse you posted next to cowboy...










The only difference is the angle of the camera and their coloring.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

This is my saddle.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> This one you posted -












His back is severe. I honestly would Not keep jumping this horse. it's extremely unfair to him.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

And I hate the picture I put up for critique because it was on a slight hill and it was the only picture I had of him at the time. 

These 2 are better.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

lubylol said:


> And I hate the picture I put up for critique because it was on a slight hill and it was the only picture I had of him at the time.
> 
> These 2 are better.


How do you not see how bad his back is? Or his pasterns in that last picture. Yikes. He stands like he hurts.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Those two are exatly the same.

Can you really, honestly not see how bad his back is? Can you not see the pain stance that he is in in just about every single picture you have posted?


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Just because it looks like he is in pain, doesn't mean he is? So what are you guys telling me. To put him down? Uhm lemme give a big hell no to that one.

And the TB with the bad roach back looks more in pain than Cowboy. You guys probably aren't vets and you can't tell me how he is just from a picture.

And yes I see his back.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

And actually in the first picture of the 2, he is standing like that because he is resting..?

And in the second he isn't in any pain.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

His saddle actually fits a little better than I imagined, although it is too far back in some pictures.

My advice:

Ask a vet. Have a vet give him a thorough check up and ask his/her opinion on riding and especially jumping. Then you can either make the changes to accommodate him, or you can stop feeling guilty.

Either way, a vet is your best bet.

I know no one wants to hear that they are unintentionally harming their horse, which is why I imagine you are taking everyone's comments so hard.

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

lubylol said:


> And I hate the picture I put up for critique because it was on a slight hill and it was the only picture I had of him at the time.
> 
> These 2 are better.


It doesn't matter WHAT pictures you put up. The horse is a conformational nightmare.

Would make a very nice pasture ornament and he would probably be very very happy to just move from grass clump to grass clump.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

I meant he doesn't knock them like someone said he did. The ratio of him knocking them is 1:6 And he only knocks them when it's my fault, and I don't get his strides right.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

lubylol said:


> I meant he doesn't knock them like someone said he did. The ratio of him knocking them is 1:6 And he only knocks them when it's my fault, and I don't get his strides right.


From your pictures I think you should get a better trainer for you don't have the hang of proper placing and you need work on your own jumping position on him.

Maybe you should ride another horse while you learn so this horse doesn't get the brunt of the mistakes you are making.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Then there is the issue of how well the saddle stays in place on him. In some of the photos you just posted it looks to far back, but in some of your riding one it is certainly to far forward, makes me wonder if it creeps while you ride?

I don't know if you actually get that people aren't so much being nasty to you, as showing concern over Cowboy.

To me it's like having a kiddy who is short and fat, but you want him to play basket ball, he'll do it to please you, but it isn't what he should be doing. Cowboy is not built for jumping it's not what he should be doing.

If you want to jump, then he is not the horse for you, not unless you want to look at heartbreak and huge vet bills in the future.


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