# Questions about making and selling hay



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_I know you need, you must add in cost to rent equipment, fuel for said equipment, cost to fertilize, cost of the the guy you paid to bale your field...
Now take that cost and if you think you can do 400 bales, divide the cost by 400 and that is the break-even *minimum* to charge per bale.
Your time is also worth $ and this should be a endeavor that makes a profit to help pay if not pay all your land taxes and then some.
Professional haymen don't do this to break even but to survive. It's their livelihood and income to survive, to feed a family and keep a roof over their head.

If you hay twice...although there is expense involved, it *is* also more profit.
To save some of the cost...and work...
The day of baling...have it advertised/known after say 12:00 noon off the field hay will be available for purchase...
If it comes from the barn the cost will be, IDK...$1.50 -$2.00 more per bale to make it inviting for the people wanting to come do their own heft of the bales, not you.
By me, several years ago I did off the field retrieval saved me a lot of money, but it was all my sweat equity in retrieval and then getting it stacked in my barn myself...that hay guy did a $2.00 a bale charge extra if he put it in his haybarn adds up fast!
His hay though was so in demand he never had a bale left and people still lined up and wanting.
I bought 200 bales at $6 a piece, would of been $8 a piece is a chunk of $$ in my pocket saved...just I was beat after swinging bales.
Bales were a solid 55 pounds of hay...
So this guy only did hay as a living...we have about 4 - 5 cuts a year by me.
All the other cuts are round rolls, only 1 cut is squares...he did 100 - 150 acres of squares is a lot of hay bales to look at!! 
If he needed more he would cut them and prepare for squares, but he was not doing this entire field of 600 acres as all squares...just not.
So, the man had 4 tractors that were square baling.
His tractors were working at sun-up getting prepared,....final fluff and rows made then the balers were put on and they started baling...it gave the balers about an hours head-start to get bales on the ground and the machinery away from people for safety reasons.
Trucks with enormous capacity flatbeds arrived, being loaded with 5000 bales each before they pulled off and another empty took its place.
Those who only took 200 bales or less were placed in a different location so they too could get hay and not be run over working at slower pace than these professional hay companies coming in do...
You were watched, but most of the time you were on the honor system too...asked how many bales and paid for what you told them.
This guys hay was by invitation only...you had to know someone to get on the farm to purchase...he was in that much demand. He took no guff or flak from anyone cause there were 10 more waiting to arrive, if you not like his policy go elsewhere made no difference to him!

So,...yes, your hay should *not* be given away and yes you *should *be making a profit.
But try letting others do most of the work for you...let those who want take from the field is that much less you need to do.
Consider hiring some high school kids or farm workers for the day if you have enough work to make it worthwhile that expense. Young backs do the heavy grunt work.... 

Before you price your product,... see what the going rate is for round of comparable size and squares.
You should already know those numbers just going to get feed and supplies for the horses.
If you are the same, a bit less you will sell out of everything.
If you are over-priced...you may have left-over...but making a profit is why you do this back-breaking job, it is a labor of love if only for your horses otherwise...make $$ for a rainy-day project!!
I think it is healthier for your fields yield to be cut and baled as is needed....advertising though for when you are planning to bale is free many places = more profit to you or work a deal with your hay guy about he take and you not pay per can work too...ask around what others arrangements are.
🐴..._


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

@horselovinguy , 4-5 cuts is amazing. That's because you live in Florida and have such a long growing season. I was visiting my cousin in Lake Placid, Fl. a few years ago and he told me I had to see a field just baled. I went out and was in awe at how many big bales they yield off an acre. Here in Kansas you usually only get one cut of brome as it has to rebuild the nutrients in it's roots to feed the grass thru the winter. If you don't let it rebuild you can have winter kill and have to replant. In a rare year you may have enough rain to get a double cut but, the second cut it never as good in production as the first. Now alfalfa is different and we get 3 cuts the first being prime and each subsequent cut is more stalky and less leafy material.


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## Robert Atwood (Apr 27, 2021)

Haying is and has been the hardest job on the farm/ranch. My opinion is I want to raise the highest quality forage possible that means possibly reseeding small plots each year. That being said, Brome Grass is one of the least nutritional hay grasses out there. It smells wonderful when cured but nutritional value is close to cardboard. Check with the agricultural extention agent in your area about the process, the best variety for your horses, take a soil sample to confirm what is needed and buy a big round baler no bigger than 800 lbs per bale and if a customer wants square bales let them make those arrangements. I farmed 300 acres alone and fed 12 draft horses and 25 brood cows all with a big round baler, in Ohio where the winters are harsh. Mowing and raking will be on you but this line of equipment is not that expensive in the used line. You only need one tractor and the most versatile would be 55 hp diesel or bigger with a front end loader.


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## ButtermilkBuckskin (May 8, 2021)

newtrailriders said:


> Does this make sense to do? Would we at least break even?


Equipment purchases, fuel costs, insurance, equipment repair, time spent idle, labor costs... Every nickle and dime adds up and does an excellent job of eating up any potential savings. It almost always works out to be more cost effective to _purchase _hay, rather than to make it yourself:- Unless you intend to become a hay contractor and bundle in doing your own fields *in addition *to doing being paid to do other peoples. 

So basically, no, it does *not *make much sense to change what you're doing right now. Consider yourself to be "breaking even" as is.


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## BethR (Feb 17, 2021)

I was paying $8 a bale until I started helping Jim bale...2-3 times a year here in Michigan... and I know first hand the hard, hard work involved. Jim gives me all the hay I need ( saves me hundreds of dollars a year) and the rest goes to his mare and is donated to the little rodeo that the K of C sponsors in our tiny village each summer. And as others above mentioned...time, wear and tear on equipment, etc. especially if you’re paying someone to bale. I’m not familiar with the price of round bales, but I wouldn’t be selling the square bales for a penny under $8 apiece.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

This is what we are thinking about buying.





@horselovinguy 

Thank you! I was hoping just to make enough that our hay turned out to be "free". If we made more than that it would be great! I was thinking if we bought the accumulator, hubby might be able to stack hay for other people as well.

If we could get two hayings I think we would do OK but @ksbowman lives in our area and he mentioned it's unusual to be able to get two crops of brome.

I like the idea of having people come and buy it right out of the field. So does my husband. High school kids don't work as hard as they used to.

That sounds like quite a hay operation that guy had!!

@ButtermilkBuckskin I've wondered if it would be less expensive to purchase it - but it really bothers me to think of all that hay in the fields just going to waste! I wish I could think of something else to do with the land.....to earn the money to pay for hay LOL

@BethR $8/bale sounds like so much! I'd be happy to charge it if people would pay it.....I know the $6/bale we charged must have been a good deal because it all sold the first day the ad was up.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Great input from the hay growers

When I lived on the OH/PA border, we were happy to get two quality cuts in one season, of all that lush timothy/mix hay.

Here, in southern Middle Tennessee, three cuts is possible IF the weather co-operates. This year isn’t looking good, as we just did our first pasture bush hogging last weekend - May. We should have been thinking about #2 by then.

There are varying ideas of exactly what “quality horse hay” means. To me it had better be 99% weed free or you couldn’t give it to me. Horses won’t eat weeds, so the more there are the bigger the waste.

Hay that isn’t put up dry, molds - can’t feed that to a horse either

People who don’t care what they put in front of a horse, may think $6/bale is too high. Those who do care will jump on that but if it turns out to be poor quality for horses, they won’t be back

I was raised on a small dairy farm. One grandfather had breefers and raised Welsh/Morgan’s so I am speaking from a life long point of view

There might be years where you profit actual cash money but more often than not, the biggest “profit” will probably be the loss you take by keeping accurate & detailed records for your federal income tax.

Also, check with your local tax assessor to see if your County has what is called a “green belt” in my Ag county. It begets you a real estate tax break on your property for just such an operation as you are considering. Shelling out less in taxes of any sort is where getting ahead really is for a small time operator

Also, we are now too old to go into the field and hump hay, so we have to pay premium price at the feed store. Last year that was $9/bale for completely weed free hay that did NOT have a drying agent on it. The feed store owner never discloses what they pay the grower for the hay (the grower delivers it to the feed store) but I guesstimate they pay about half the amount they sell it for.

I know who the good hay growers are in my county and whose “horse hay” I wouldn’t feed to my neighbor’s goats. Reputation spreads quickly amongst those who care what they feed, and hay recommendations are made the same way.

I am by no means trying to discourage you. I am trying to give you perspective from someone who spent years helping family put up hay for our own livestock, and even more years buying hay for my horses.

The cost of fuel, pesticides, weed killer and baling twine are on the rise each year. Conscientiously growing quality small squares for conscientious horse owners would indeed put a halo on your heads. However, turning a huge profit probably won’t happen with such a small operation. Losing money on your tax forms will likely bring you a better return


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## Robert Atwood (Apr 27, 2021)

Involving the art of making hay, timing is everything to achieve the highest quality hay. If you know a reliable custom baler person you half half the battle over with. Even he has to keep a schedule and perform when called upon in a timely manner because hay goes downhill between rain showers and it is lost to the weather. I preferred a big round baler because I had 80 acres of hay ground but if I only had 5 to 10 acres a big round baler would be overkill.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

My aunt's neighbor is paying $8.50 north of Lawrence.

Here the feed stores pay the field price with a small bulk discount as they prepurchase, load and store onsite. Considering their labor cost they really don't make money on hay. It is a convenience item for the customer that brings them in to purchase other items that are at a higher mark up. They sell for the same as those selling out of their barns locally so their profit margin is small. They bring in other grasses, mixes and alfalfa which are sold for quite a bit more but still aren't making much as they are covering hauling costs or if they bring in from non local sources the hays available here they will charge enough to recoup their cost and not lose but still don't make much. Hay isn't a money making endeavor small scale. 

We hire out on property further north. When I first moved here we would bring the flat beds and load what we wanted. The person that fertilzed, cut and baled was charged what was paid in taxes on the property and an agreed amount of hay out of the field for personal use. That is common around here.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ButtermilkBuckskin said:


> Equipment purchases, fuel costs, insurance, equipment repair, time spent idle, labor costs... Every nickle and dime adds up and does an excellent job of eating up any potential savings. It almost always works out to be more cost effective to _purchase _hay, rather than to make it yourself:- Unless you intend to become a hay contractor and bundle in doing your own fields *in addition *to doing being paid to do other peoples.
> 
> So basically, no, it does *not *make much sense to change what you're doing right now. Consider yourself to be "breaking even" as is.


We have also been looking into this, and have come to the same conclusion. We talked to a good friend who sells us hay now, and asked him to give us a price on cutting it since he already has all the machinery. Turned out just as expensive to cut our own as to buy. That being said, we would still consider it if we find the perfect piece of land at a good price, but that's unlikely to happen right now. I mean, it all depends on what hay is going for in your area OP, but around here, you do not save money cutting your own hay. You do, however, have a guaranteed source for hay which is why we haven't completely ruled it out. But you have to invest a lot in terms of fertilizing and preparing the land, then cutting then baling... it is not a money making proposition.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

You have received some good comments here. We make our own hay for our cows and horses. Brome is not a variety that we grow in NW IL. My fields are Timothy Grass, Grass and alfalfa. We usually get 3 cuttings per year. Last year mid summer to fall became very very dry so our second and third cuttings were virtually non-existent. The issue there is that I still have to pay my hay guy the same to mow, rake and ted the hay the same per acre whether I get a good crop or not - and then I pay X amount per bale to bale it. We bale 7 acres of hay and for that small amount it is just not worth it to buy our own equipment. We do have a tractor and a hay rake but no crimper and no baler. Those 2 items alone would cost a few thousand dollars not to mention the cost of hay racks. Just to be used 3 times per year and then stored outside mostly where you have to wrench on them every spring to get them in working order.

We do sell some hay when we have extra and use FB marketplace to determine best price. We have baled in the 3 x 5 squares at times and do small squares as well. The issue with small squares is that many horse people want it brought to them and stacked for them as well - they are willing to pay extra but that is just time and muscle I do not have. I would much rather sell to cattle people that can come and pick up a 3 x 5 bale and haul it out of the field.

Contacting your local extension office is a great idea. they will give you the best advice for your area.

here is a breakdown of my yearly costs

Ag Lime once per year either in fall or spring - I pay for the lime and either apply it myself or pay my hay guy to do it
Cutting the hay - I pay by the acre
Tedding the hay - I pay by the acre
baling the hay - I pay by the bale 
Every few years we have seed redrilled - I pay for seed and by the acre to have it drilled

I also pay for soil testing to determine what my field needs nutritionally.

My first hay guy we split the hay with 50/50 and we supplied the labor to bale it. Every hay guy is different.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

We have also weighed the question of whether to bale our fields or buy from the guy that used to bale our fields and hays about all the farms around us. We have ~15 acres that used to be hay but it was neglected by the previous owners for about a decade before we moved in. Couple that with how rocky and hilly the fields are, and it's not worth the hay guy's time to do it, and not worth what it would cost us to buy our own equipment. 

In VT, small squares will weigh 25-35 lbs and run $5-6.50/bale delivered and stacked, with a discount if you pay within 7 business days. We buy between 600-700 bales per year and can store about 550 at a time so have to have a mid-December load delivered before the snow gets too bad for someone to get up here. There are people who will give a discount if you load off the field in the summer but to me it's well worth it to pay to have it delivered and stacked. I think buying delivered is always going to be a better deal for us, factoring in both time and actual $ cost.


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