# Can anyone help me with AZ law re. padlocking my horse?



## LovesMyDunnBoy (Aug 11, 2011)

I can't help with what the laws may be, but I'm wondering if something could be done in the way of abuse or neglect from him being stalled like that. Maybe you could get a statement from a vet saying it's unhealthy and detrimental to his health to be confined. Don't take my word for it, I'm just throwing some ideas out there.
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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

I have no idea how they handle it there, but anywhere I have been boarded your horse will be padlocked until board is paid or worse, sold. Seems extreme, but justified by the board owner. It should also be in your contract that this will happen. If it isn't disputed in your boarding contract, then you can cause some waves. 

Otherwise there are really only two options... Pay the board or bring the law in. For your horses well being, it may be best to pay the inflated price to get him out of the stall. 

If you believe your horses health is in danger, cut the lock and get the law involved. Padlocking a stall is intended to bully the owners to paying, if you have a history (not saying you do) of not paying or late board, their action is justified. If this is your first time, they're overreacting. We had only one board members horse stall padlocked in all my years of being in public boarding. 

Good luck :/ ...


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'd get on the phone and be as friendly and civil as possible and ask them to please proved turnout for the horse because he WILL suffer physically from confinement. Tell them to paddlock him into a paddock. Ask them not to punish the horse for the error, afterall he didn't do anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilypoo (Jun 15, 2013)

Thanks guys. We just got him the end of June and he's been there since then. Our boarding account was never set up, I never got a signed agreement from them...nothing. The stable is operated by the HOA in the subdivision but there is a history of mismanagement. The HOA ended up billing my landlord and part of what I'm being told I owe are charges that aren't mind. We also are in the midst of a legal battle with the landlord (for not providing adequate A/C all spring/summer) so I've already been drained financially over that. I can't pay the bogus amount right now.

The facility has no paddocks or turn-out. Some of the boarders turn their horses into round pens or the arena but since those aren't irrigated the horses aren't into walking around AND you have to stay on site while they're out of their stalls. I think it's a horrible facility and actually in my opinion, it's cruel to keep a horse in those conditions. They only get out when the owners take them out and for some, that's next to never. 

That has nothing to do with my situation except that I found board for him with 24/7 pasture access and want to move him. Even when I can get him out, 1-2 hours a day is nothing compared to standing in a 12x14 stall 22-23 hours a day! 

I will call the vet and see if she can give me a letter or something. I knows she thinks the facilities there are awful as she's told me (and another vet has too).


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## lilypoo (Jun 15, 2013)

FWIW, I asked the HOA's management company how quickly they could get the padlock off if I were to pay them and they said they won't accept payment from me...that I have to pay the landlord/property management company now (even though about a week ago they said I could pay them directly). The property management company/landlord will only accept money order or cashiers check and I'm fairly certain that if I give THEM the money it won't properly get applied to the boarding account and that the horse still won't be freed. And I'll have no recourse. These are people who left us harassing voice mails on Sept.30 saying they were heading over to change locks and do a move-out inspection without us present because a neighbor told them we abandoned the house...even though Sept. AND October's rent were paid (and on time) and we've been there daily. It's a total crazy-train!


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## lilypoo (Jun 15, 2013)

And just for the record, I have never received a bill, late notice or any communication from the HOA mgmt co that has padlocked the stall...


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

IMHO if you do not have a signed contract, they don't have anything to enforce. Cut the lock, and move the horse. Send them a payment however you have to for what you actually owe, cancel the open checks, and then find somewhere else to live. Sounds like a horrible situation to be, but no one would be getting between me and the welfare of my horses. Good luck to you and your horse.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Good heavens. Get some written proof of how much old horses are getting if slaughtered because that is their only hope of getting any money from the horse. On a good day, a horse with good weight might fetch $350 tops right now. With this evidence they might be willing to work a deal. Some twit there has no idea of what the horse market is like and is trying to hold the horse for ransom. Play their game. Let them know they will come out the losers.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Do not accept anything I say as legal advice.

I would cut the lock, move my horse, and tell them to bite me. If they want money after making my animal suffer physical harm with no notice or warning, they can come after me with the boarding contract bearing my signature showing I agreed to pay them anything at all. I'll counter-sue for knowingly inflicting animal suffering and cruelty.

They're bullies trying to get their way. Nothing they are doing sounds at all legal, especially without a contract.


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

Cut the lock and move the horse now!!! The HOA can go pound sand and I would let them all know that charges will be filed against them for animal endangerment, mismangement, and false records. 

And report them all to the BBB, and the state of Arizona. Last I knew you cannot padlock any animal in a confinded space. What if there is a fire?


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

PM me the HOA's managment company contact information if you don't feel comfortable posting it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Most counties have bar association referral services. In Pima County AZ, I believe the rate is $35 for a referral, and that includes 30 minutes discussing your problem with a lawyer who specializes in that sort of law. $35 may tell you that you have the right to cut the lock and take the horse. OR, it may tell you that would be a criminal act with civil penalties as well. Being put in jail for theft would not help you.

The law varies from state to state and with how the courts in a state have interpreted the laws, and none of us know the details of your agreements...and sometimes, verbal or assumed agreements are enforceable. I hate HOAs, but an HOA can have authority based on its CC&Rs and its policies. I would not assume "no written contract" means no bill collecting authority.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Send a certified letter with dates, times and check numbers.

Call a buddy with a trailer.

Sit at the barn. Horse has to be fed, watered and stall cleaned.

When the stall is open, lead the horse out. 

Have trailer buddy pull in, load and leave.


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

Isn't that illegal to withhold property because of unpaid bills? There was another thread semi-recently about someone who had their horse locked in a padlocked stall, let me see if I can dig it up.

I would call the police and ask what your options are.


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## lilypoo (Jun 15, 2013)

I called the Sheriff's office and was told that the HOA CANNOT hold him or keep me from accessing him or keep me from removing him. I can't say anymore right now but I'll update when it's resolved. Such craziness! 

And yes, HOAs do have WAY too much power in AZ!! The stories of mismanagement, money co-mingling, missing funds, etc. that I've heard from other members of this community are ASTOUNDING.

Thankfully a neighbor is looking out for him and making sure he's fed and watered and that he gets his supplements. The barn throws hay, cleans the stall and they're continuing that, though at one point my landlord accused me of having stopped feeding him!!! Such BS!


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## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

Well that's good news. I say move him as soon as you can.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

lilypoo said:


> I called the Sheriff's office and was told that the HOA CANNOT hold him or keep me from accessing him or keep me from removing him.
> 
> Thankfully a neighbor is looking out for him and making sure he's fed and watered and that he gets his supplements.


Has he been moved?

In this situation - I would be there in person instead of depending on ANYONE to fill me in.


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## lilypoo (Jun 15, 2013)

We met a Deputy there on Saturday and the HOA board and community manager came and held an emergency quorum. We agreed to an amount to settle the bill and they agreed to take the funds from me directly, when previously they had refused to deal with me. It was only about $100 more than it "should" have been. 

The Deputy refused to make them release the horse and said we'd have to go to court after the community manager produced a livestock statute on her phone. Personally I believe they were all misinterpreting the statute...it doesn't seem to apply...but my hands were tied. They said they had an automatic lien.

Complicating things, we found out the neighbor had allegedly been removing my horse's food for weeks, potentially. The board had known and hadn't done anything to help the horse. They said they were preparing to take action in the coming week.

So that was Saturday afternoon and we had to leave him there till Monday evening, after I could get a cashier's check and drive it 75 miles round trip to settle our bill. I had him sedated and trailered to his new home.

He is very, very happy at his new home so far. He really seems to enjoy having the run of an entire irrigated acre and he enjoys all the other animals that are there (another horse, goats, sheep, chickens, ducks, dogs, a pig, etc.). I am incredibly relieved that he's out of that facility. It's a terrible place and there seems to be so much corruption. I hope to be able to enjoy him more at his new place, even though he won't be right around the corner, there won't be any politics or anything to remind me of my horrible experience with that house and community!


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Glad you're out of that mess. When we looked for properties, we refused to even consider anything with an HOA, deed restrictions, or covenants because of stories like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Call your local animal control and see if there's a law against padlocking the horse in the stall. Where I used to live it was illegal due to the possibility of fire and not being able to get the horses out. I hope you have before pics and take current ones to show deterioration, so you can produce them if needed.


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## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

Any update on this? Hope everything worked out alright.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

It was updated......it is on the previous page.


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## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

Whoops! I totally missed that. Thanks!


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

lilypoo said:


> We met a Deputy there on Saturday and the HOA board and community manager came and held an emergency quorum. We agreed to an amount to settle the bill and they agreed to take the funds from me directly, when previously they had refused to deal with me. It was only about $100 more than it "should" have been.
> 
> The Deputy refused to make them release the horse and said we'd have to go to court after the community manager produced a livestock statute on her phone. Personally I believe they were all misinterpreting the statute...it doesn't seem to apply...but my hands were tied. They said they had an automatic lien.
> 
> ...


 
Now that your horse is moved and they are paid, time to make a call to a lawyer and sue both the neighbor and who ever is on the board. They knew the neighbor was removing your horses food and they did nothing. They contributed to your horse not being fed and neglected. That is animal cruelty/abuse. I personally would make their lives miserable. 

Glad your boy is doing better.


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## ccbmuggsey (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm 15 years old and have two paint horses. They are my life, literally. I've been through a lot of hard situations in my life and my horses are the only think keeping me from really hurting myself. I board at a stables that charges $300 a month but do the second horse it's $275. Because of our financial difficulties right now, we've managed to get back board up to $2,800. I can't sell them I don't have it in me. The "agreement" was that if you're 2 or more moths behind on your board the owner technically owns your horses until back board is payed. But, she never gave us a contract to sign. So does that mean that I can take my horses out? The owner is spreading nasty untrue rumor about my family and I, to the point where I can't even go out there without feeling uncomfortable. Being that my horses are all I have, I would love to actually enjoy them again. They're everything to me. I also don't want any hard feelings but I will do anything to get them back. I also think that she is trying to over charge on board because she claimed that she had just got my horses hooves done two weeks ago and charged me $75 but when I went out there, their hooves were about curled. That's not even possible. My farrier is very trusted and even the worst farrier in the world couldn't do that bad of a job. But, I have no solid proof. So is it irrelevant? This is kinda urgent because I often literally get sick to my stomach just thinking about this whole situation. I feel as if my heart is being torn in two. I CANNOT lose them. Please give advise! Thank you!!!


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

ccbmuggsey said:


> I'm 15 years old and have two paint horses. They are my life, literally. I've been through a lot of hard situations in my life and my horses are the only think keeping me from really hurting myself. I board at a stables that charges $300 a month but do the second horse it's $275. Because of our financial difficulties right now, we've managed to get back board up to $2,800. I can't sell them I don't have it in me. The "agreement" was that if you're 2 or more moths behind on your board the owner technically owns your horses until back board is payed. But, she never gave us a contract to sign. So does that mean that I can take my horses out? The owner is spreading nasty untrue rumor about my family and I, to the point where I can't even go out there without feeling uncomfortable. Being that my horses are all I have, I would love to actually enjoy them again. They're everything to me. I also don't want any hard feelings but I will do anything to get them back. I also think that she is trying to over charge on board because she claimed that she had just got my horses hooves done two weeks ago and charged me $75 but when I went out there, their hooves were about curled. That's not even possible. My farrier is very trusted and even the worst farrier in the world couldn't do that bad of a job. But, I have no solid proof. So is it irrelevant? This is kinda urgent because I often literally get sick to my stomach just thinking about this whole situation. I feel as if my heart is being torn in two. I CANNOT lose them. Please give advise! Thank you!!!


 
Not to be harsh, but if you are months behind on board your best bet is to sell them, pay off the back board and once your families finaces are better stablized and able to properly afford horses then look at getting another one. 
At one time or another most of us have had to give up our dream horse for a little while until the time was right again to have one. 

The boarding stable does have the right to recoup the monies owed, but I couldn't tell you if they have the right to say they own the horses until you pay.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I hate to say it, but I agree with the above. $2,800 is not a matter of one or two months... That's a lot. Frankly, you probably should have sold them sooner...
There was a similar situation at a barn I used to board at--the owner stopped paying board on two horses, then stopped coming out. The owner was contacted, of course, but the horses were ultimately sold by the barn to recoup losses.

If you just "take your horses" and peace out... Well, let's say that a bad reputation travels very quickly. You may not be able to find another place to board, and have legal issues to deal with.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

ccbmuggsey said:


> I'm 15 years old and have two paint horses. They are my life, literally. I've been through a lot of hard situations in my life and my horses are the only think keeping me from really hurting myself. I board at a stables that charges $300 a month but do the second horse it's $275. Because of our financial difficulties right now, we've managed to get back board up to $2,800. I can't sell them I don't have it in me. The "agreement" was that if you're 2 or more moths behind on your board the owner technically owns your horses until back board is payed. But, she never gave us a contract to sign. So does that mean that I can take my horses out? The owner is spreading nasty untrue rumor about my family and I, to the point where I can't even go out there without feeling uncomfortable. Being that my horses are all I have, I would love to actually enjoy them again. They're everything to me. I also don't want any hard feelings but I will do anything to get them back. I also think that she is trying to over charge on board because she claimed that she had just got my horses hooves done two weeks ago and charged me $75 but when I went out there, their hooves were about curled. That's not even possible. My farrier is very trusted and even the worst farrier in the world couldn't do that bad of a job. But, I have no solid proof. So is it irrelevant? This is kinda urgent because I often literally get sick to my stomach just thinking about this whole situation. I feel as if my heart is being torn in two. I CANNOT lose them. Please give advise! Thank you!!!


You should start your own thread about this if you want advice, not take over the OP's thread. 

I will say that you are lucky that the BO hasn't sold your horses yet. If it was any of the barns I'd been in and I hadn't paid board for around 5 months (what I figure with the amounts you gave) my horses would have been long gone, probably to an auction. 

It doesn't sound like the BO is starting nasty rumors about you, it sounds like they are telling people the truth. I'm not trying to be harsh and I know it is a hard situation to face, but you should not own horses if you cannot pay for their board or farrier care. If they're feet are starting to curl, you're lucky animal control hasn't already been called.


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

ccbmuggsey said:


> I'm 15 years old and have two paint horses. They are my life, literally. I've been through a lot of hard situations in my life and my horses are the only think keeping me from really hurting myself. I board at a stables that charges $300 a month but do the second horse it's $275. Because of our financial difficulties right now, we've managed to get back board up to $2,800. I can't sell them I don't have it in me. The "agreement" was that if you're 2 or more moths behind on your board the owner technically owns your horses until back board is payed. But, she never gave us a contract to sign. So does that mean that I can take my horses out? The owner is spreading nasty untrue rumor about my family and I, to the point where I can't even go out there without feeling uncomfortable. Being that my horses are all I have, I would love to actually enjoy them again. They're everything to me. I also don't want any hard feelings but I will do anything to get them back. I also think that she is trying to over charge on board because she claimed that she had just got my horses hooves done two weeks ago and charged me $75 but when I went out there, their hooves were about curled. That's not even possible. My farrier is very trusted and even the worst farrier in the world couldn't do that bad of a job. But, I have no solid proof. So is it irrelevant? This is kinda urgent because I often literally get sick to my stomach just thinking about this whole situation. I feel as if my heart is being torn in two. I CANNOT lose them. Please give advise! Thank you!!!


You should have made your own thread, but it's here, so I'm just going to reply.

Listen, I understand how much your horses mean to you.
I understand what it feels like to know in your mind that you would have shot yourself in the head a long time ago if it wasn't for those horses.
I understand that you thank God every night for those horses, and I understand that they are your life. I've been there, I know that. Hell, I'm there right now, and I'll never leave that place. 

But honey, you need to think about them.
Their feet are curling, the barn owner is probably not happy about them being there, and you can't afford to take care of them anymore. Do you think they are happy being in the middle of the whole situation? I heavily doubt it. I would consider leasing them off to another family.

Leasing is not selling. They are still in your name, and you can still see them whenever you want. BUT, on a full lease, someone else can take care of them. Someone else can pay for them, and love them, and give them all the attention your beautiful babies deserve. And the best part? You can get a check for owning them! Maybe it's not much, maybe it's two hundred bucks for both of them to be on full lease to someone else. But sweetheart, it's a heck of a lot better than sinking further and further into debt. And one day, you'll finally get back on your feet and you can get them back, and they are fully yours again.

This is seriously your best option, and the only thing I think you should do. At this point, you just can't be selfish. It will never work in the horse world.


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

Agree with the above. You say you CANNOT lose them but it sounds like you might not have a choice. You're lucky they haven't been sold already as it is! Your barn owner is quite honestly a nicer person than I am. over 2,000 in back board is a LOT. More than just a month or two. And if I was boarding horses I would not allow that. You obviously can't afford them- and their care is suffering because of it (their hooves are so bad they're CURLED?). You need to think about them, not yourself. Where are you going to come up with the money to pay the backboard, the future board, AND the care they so desperately need? It's quite honestly a bit selfish to keep them in my opinion when you know you can't take care of them. What would you do if one needed a vet?

I'm sorry, but I agree with the sentiment that you need to sell. Not paying and moving your horses out just because you don't have a contract and don't have the money to follow the verbal contract is a nasty thing to do, and you don't want to be THAT person to run away because of problems you can't solve.


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