# canter feels "wonky" help? Hot horse



## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

Heres a picture of about a month of having him. Hes starting to gain some muscle in his hindquarters.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think "wonky" is just too vague for anyone to diagnos and recommend a treatment for, over the internet. Gotta have a video to show what "wonky" means to you and him.

Bread? you feed your horse bread?

ok , seeing that photo . .. his spine is so bare, from lack of fat and muscle tissue, that maybe at the canter your saddle is banging on it. That would hurt and would make him move "wonky" for sure.

Would you be willing to post photos of the saddle on him without a pad, and of his bare back to see if saddle fit has anything to do with it? He looks pretty thin right now.


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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

He is TOO THIN to be ridden, let alone cantering!
Get off of him, get some weight and muscle on him, and then go about riding.
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> I think "wonky" is just too vague for anyone to diagnos and recommend a treatment for, over the internet. Gotta have a video to show what "wonky" means to you and him.
> 
> Bread? you feed your horse bread?
> 
> ...


When I say wonky I awkward and sort of listing to one side, its hard to explain. 

But yes, bread helps them gain weight, the BO does it and various others have suggested it.

Of course, ill take some pictures tomorrow. And it might be saddle fit, we have a saddle being repaired that fits him perfect. But I can try to take videos too.
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

GamingGrrl said:


> He is TOO THIN to be ridden, let alone cantering!
> Get off of him, get some weight and muscle on him, and then go about riding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I only ride him on Tuesdays for lessons, that picture is older im goimg to take new ones tomorrow. But cantering was just to see how he would behave, I am not going to be doing that again. I even told my friends to stop but they sort of ignored me. But before I really get to using him on the trails im going to get.some more weight and muscle on him.
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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Never heard of bread to put weight on a horse. Your BO must have some other entertaining ideas. Basic good quality hay puts weight on a horse, and it will take months to do so, and longer if he is a hard keeper. Many companies make quality senior extras, and my favorite for ALL ages is Purina's Equine Senior, which is pelleted and even can be fed to horses with no teeth, if mashed. Buy and follow the directions. It put weight on my elderly hard keepers, along with plenty of good hay.
To your question of what to do,* you need lots of time schooling in an arena with this very green horse.* Your horse might be unbalanced, but probably is just disobedience bc he doesn't understand your cues and is running away from you, the predator on his back. Age doesn't determine training. Hours of training and hours under saddle determine how finished a horse is. 
Trail riding is NOT the "my horse doesn't have a discipline" activity. It takes a very well mannered horse to ride trails safely. I've seen my number of runaways. My favorite was the girl who took two of her family's mules on her honeymoon to the Black Hills. Her green mule threw her on the trail and the camp had to retrieve her on an ATV, and then send her to the ER. The mule wasn't even interested in hanging around MY horses when he ran full tilt back to camp, who were tied next to their camp spot. =/
Your horse looks to me to be middle aged and on a poor diet before your bought him. He still has flesh on his neck, flanks and upper legs, just the spine is showing. He's not too far gone to ride. If you look up Frederick Remington's paintings you will see that the 21st century American view of "fleshed out" is different from the late 19th century view, when horses were transportation.
Waiting to train until he gains weight would not be recommended bc the previous owner might have tried starving an unruly horse into submission. It has been done before. You need to earn his trust AND his respect. I suggest that you plunk down the money for Clinton Anderson's basic training, ~$300.00 and money well spent. Your post suggests that you don't know yet how to retrain, and his method is basically, "Horse Training for Dummies", like the ".....for Dummies" books that we buy when we REALLY get serious about learning how to do something.


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

Corporal said:


> Never heard of bread to put weight on a horse. Your BO must have some other entertaining ideas. Basic good quality hay puts weight on a horse, and it will take months to do so, and longer if he is a hard keeper. Many companies make quality senior extras, and my favorite for ALL ages is Purina's Equine Senior, which is pelleted and even can be fed to horses with no teeth, if mashed. Buy and follow the directions. It put weight on my elderly hard keepers, along with plenty of good hay.
> To your question of what to do,* you need lots of time schooling in an arena with this very green horse.* Your horse might be unbalanced, but probably is just disobedience bc he doesn't understand your cues and is running away from you, the predator on his back. Age doesn't determine training. Hours of training and hours under saddle determine how finished a horse is.
> Trail riding is NOT the "my horse doesn't have a discipline" activity. It takes a very well mannered horse to ride trails safely. I've seen my number of runaways. My favorite was the girl who took two of her family's mules on her honeymoon to the Black Hills. Her green mule threw her on the trail and the camp had to retrieve her on an ATV, and then send her to the ER. The mule wasn't even interested in hanging around MY horses when he ran full tilt back to camp, who were tied next to their camp spot. =/
> Your horse looks to me to be middle aged and on a poor diet before your bought him. He still has flesh on his neck, flanks and upper legs, just the spine is showing. He's not too far gone to ride. If you look up Frederick Remington's paintings you will see that the 21st century American view of "fleshed out" is different from the late 19th century view, when horses were transportation.
> Waiting to train until he gains weight would not be recommended bc the previous owner might have tried starving an unruly horse into submission. It has been done before. You need to earn his trust AND his respect. I suggest that you plunk down the money for Clinton Anderson's basic training, ~$300.00 and money well spent. Your post suggests that you don't know yet how to retrain, and his method is basically, "Horse Training for Dummies", like the ".....for Dummies" books that we buy when we REALLY get serious about learning how to do something.



To clarify, we feed the bread along with the regular feed and hay is of short supply in our area. But I have no clue how old he could be, the previous owners said fifteen but the BO said by the looks of his teeth he could be in his twenties. Before I had him he was just wasting away in the pasture. He couldnt keep much weihht on because he is parrot mouthed and hadnt had his teeth done in awhile. He had them done a few Weeks ago along with his hooves. Sorry I forgot to add this. But by far he isnt green, hes just has bad habits and is dominant (hes the most dominant in the herd) and his past owners had no clue how to handle him. But as far as trail riding he is calm as can be (the other day a baby armadillo ran underneath him and he didnt even bat an eyelash) but he will test you to see if you are paying attention. I am by far not a high caliber rider but I do have an expirienced person to help me. But I am familiar with Clinton Anderson, and I have been watching his show and I am planning on buying a few of his books.
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

As far as his age though, im not sure if he had papers or not but he was said to be fifteen. Could him being parrot mouthed make his teeth appear to be older?
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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

It looks like he's double padded to keep the saddle off his back, as his spine is pretty exposed right now due to his poor condition and weak topline.
I wouldn't be riding this horse in this condition, he needs to be gaining weight, not burning calories.
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

GamingGrrl said:


> It looks like he's double padded to keep the saddle off his back, as his spine is pretty exposed right now due to his poor condition and weak topline.
> I wouldn't be riding this horse in this condition, he needs to be gaining weight, not burning calories.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, thats why he is double padded. Then what do you suggest I do?
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

I will however take a video of my lesson on him tomorrow and a few pictures of him without a saddle.
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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

I'd suggest 24/7 access to a good quality grass hay, a senior feed, alfalfa pellets, and maybe corn oil. I took a horse from thin to fat and happy this year, I got him in January and he was on the above diet for 3 months, and he's spent the past few months on purina strategy GX, grass hay, and pasture and he looks great.

For top line building I'd suggest lounging over Cavaletti or trot poles, starting out just for 5 minutes each direction and then increasing the time as he gains weight and stamina. Hand walking up hills is great too, as is backing. But mainly just let him gain weight, all the exercising and troubleshooting can come later.
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

GamingGrrl said:


> I'd suggest 24/7 access to a good quality grass hay, a senior feed, alfalfa pellets, and maybe corn oil. I took a horse from thin to fat and happy this year, I got him in January and he was on the above diet for 3 months, and he's spent the past few months on purina strategy GX, grass hay, and pasture and he looks great.
> 
> For top line building I'd suggest lounging over Cavaletti or trot poles, starting out just for 5 minutes each direction and then increasing the time as he gains weight and stamina. Hand walking up hills is great too, as is backing. But mainly just let him gain weight, all the exercising and troubleshooting can come later.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok thank you,  

I have been thinking about trot poles and the likes but we dont have any at the moment. I will consider buying some. That will also help with him being aware of where hes placing his feet too, correct? Thank for the help.
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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

I just use rounded wooden fence posts for mine. They're a bit heavy but they're pretty cheap. I spray painted mine white to class them up a little bit. I made wooden X's that I can place the poles into and make Cavaletti too.
I use trot poles a lot, they're good even for horses that are being ridden. It does help them figure out where there feet are, especially green horses.
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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

LouieThePalomino said:


> Well a a few days ago I had the chance to canter my new gelding on some flat grass and sort of "race" with my friends. It wasnt hard to get him to canter but he got really hot afterwards and would prance and try to jig.


Sooooo, the first time you canter him, you are "racing" with your buddies, and then you can't understand why your horse is now hot and jiggy about it?

Horses are herd animals. They don't like to be left behind when the other horses take off running, and they also feed off of each other's excited energy. 

You really set yourself up for failure with what you did. A better idea is to canter with him when you are alone, or when you are working with a friend who actually has your best interest in mind and will canter slowly with you. (your friends aren't very nice if they don't wait for you when they know you are having a problem with your horse). 



LouieThePalomino said:


> I also got to ride him on the trails the other day and when it came to the canter it was a disaster, he passed and I emergency stopped him but the guy leading the ride continued off without me. I was really angry and told him to stop but he didnt. Meanwhile my horse was getting real excited when he caught sight of the neighboring horses and he tried to run over to them but I stopped him and got his attention by making him do a few circles and making him put his head down. After that he listened and I made him walk to catch up with the group. Needless to say I was VERY unhappy.


Again, don't be unhappy because YOU haven't given your horse the proper training to handle the situation. You're throwing him to the wolves and expecting him not to get upset, which isn't realistic to expect. The horse has done nothing wrong here. But the rider has..... 



LouieThePalomino said:


> Anyways, back on topic, his canter feels really strange to me, and I have ridden multiple horses at the canter. When im cantering mine however, he feels like hes sort of bending to one side, its hard to explain but he and an injury a while back from a marke that tboned him and thats supposedly why hes like that. And he needs more weight and balance.


We'd need to see a video to see what's going on. 

Has he been seen by a vet? It sounds like he has some health issues due to being underweight and having old injuries. A lameness specialist would be a good idea. A chiropractor wouldn't be a bad idea either. 

When did the dentist want to work on him again, since he has chronic teeth issues?



LouieThePalomino said:


> Any suggestions on how I could fix his hot headdedness and weird canter? As far as weight ive been giving him extra groceries and hes been getting bread.


You can fix his hot-headedness by actually training him. He should be soft in the bridle at the walk, before you attempt to trot. Just because he is 15 yrs old, does not mean he doesn't need some re-training. He should give to the bit both ways, and also give vertically. He should never fight you or throw his head/nose. Get him perfect at the walk before you even think about trotting. And same thing: Get him perfect at the trot before you think about cantering again. If you have to emergency one-rein stop him at the canter, then you have no business cantering on him. That's where "being soft in the bridle" comes into play at all gaits. 

So have you been riding him since you got him?

How would you like wearing 4 pairs of socks in your shoes? Do you think that would make shoes (that are too big) fit you better? So why is it acceptable to have 3 inches of padding on your horse's back under a saddle? How uncomfortable for the horse!!

I sure hope you weren't riding your horse in the picture you took. He was (and probably still is) way too underweight for that. 

How much ground training have you done with him? Does he ever crowd you or get into your space? Does he pick up all 4 feet willingly? Does he lower his head when you ask? 

Doing ground work exercises to gain respect is certainly a worthwhile thing to do EVERY day for 10 to 15 minutes with your horse. Especially one that does clearly need more general training .... even if the horse is 20 years old.


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

beau159 said:


> Sooooo, the first time you canter him, you are "racing" with your buddies, and then you can't understand why your horse is now hot and jiggy about it?
> 
> *yes, I admit that was a stupid idea but I told them I didnt want to do it afterwards, and it was for a short distance. He gets hot and jiggy regardless of whether we were doing that or not, be was like that before I got him.*
> 
> ...


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

I sure hope you weren't riding your horse in the picture you took. He was (and probably still is) way too underweight for that.*

*That picture was taken before i went to ride him and it was only at a walk.*

How much ground training have you done with him? Does he ever crowd you or get into your space? Does he pick up all 4 feet willingly? Does he lower his head when you ask?*Doing ground work exercises to gain respect is certainly a worthwhile thing to do EVERY day for 10 to 15 minutes with your horse. Especially one that does clearly need more general training .... even if the horse is 20 years old.

*We have done some work on the ground but we dont have a round pen. He used to be pushy and try to jig while being led but I quicky solved that problem. He picks up all four feet and gives to pressure when you push on him. He was a bit buddy sour due to being left in pasture for almost a year before. He also used to have a problem with setting back when hes tied so now he ties with a rope halter to a sturdy rail. He ground ties perfectly and I ground tie him when I groom and saddle up.*
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

And as for the bread thing since some people were curious about it, heres a thread on it: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/feeding-bread-horses-63608/
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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

Heres a few pictures of him the day I got him







You can see the scar on his back in this one, where I presume he was injured.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I'd find some new people to ride with, if I were you. How inconsiderate of them!



LouieThePalomino said:


> yes I will get a video of the entire lesson tomorrow. And yes he has, he is sound and he has no physical problems or lameness. He has been seen by a Farrier as well and his hooves are good.


So he had a lameness eval with a vet? Or checked by the chiro? Which is it?

I guess I just have a hard time believing the vet told you it would be okay to ride this horse at this point in time, with him being so severely underweight. 



LouieThePalomino said:


> yes I have but only once a week, the rest of the days he gets to roam around the pasture. I also gave him a week off when he got his teeth and hooves done because he was a little sore.


Wait though. You said he has good hooves? Well either he does NOT have good hooves, or your farrier didn't do a good job. Horses should not be sore after they have been trimmed (especially for a week!). Granted, this horse may have been in poor condition when you got him as far as long hooves, but you've got to gradually ease them into a proper trim without making them sore over the course of months. 

And how much would YOU get into shape if you only went running once a week, but yet you wanted to run a half-marathon? If you want to get this horse into workable shape with muscle and tone (AFTER he has put on the appropriate weight) fit for riding, he needs daily exercise. Not once a week. 



LouieThePalomino said:


> Well it was suggested that I put that many pads on so the saddle isnt pressing directly onto his spine...like I said, he has a better fitting saddle that is almost done being repaired. No need to be rude, I am not abusing him, he is only ridden for an hour and a half at most.


Then, as I was getting at in my previous post, you should NOT be riding him. And I doubt any vet has cleared you to do so if he is still that skinny.

Let's say your wear a shoe size 9. So let's have you walk around "only" for an hour and a half wearing a shoe size 7, with no padding in the shoe at all. But it's only for an hour and half .... oh and we're just going to walk .... you can suck it up. 
_
**face palm**_ You can't possibly justify it to be "okay" with such an ill-fitting saddle on such an underweight horse for _over _an hour. 

Rather than riding this horse, you should be focusing on getting his weight up with a proper horse diet (that this vet should have put together for you) and helping the horse get into better fitness and muscling (after he has put weight on) by doing ground work exercises. THEN ... THEN .... probably months down the road .... THEN you can ride him, when he is fit to carry someone. He is not fit to carry someone at this point in time from what you have told us so far.

You don't need a round pen to do ground work. Just something with decent footing.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Louie he could have been either cross firing or he was bent to one side and on a lead that "pulled" you to one side. 

Does his canter always feel this way or only that time?

But regardless you should not be riding this horse when he is that thin or without a topline. Lunging only, if at all.


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Louie he could have been either cross firing or he was bent to one side and on a lead that "pulled" you to one side.
> 
> Does his canter always feel this way or only that time?
> 
> But regardless you should not be riding this horse when he is that thin or without a topline. Lunging only, if at all.


No, the.other time we cantered it wasn't like that. Maybe it was because of the lead. Yes, I wont be riding him again anytime soon, I will be going back today to give him extra groceries and bread, along with some groundwork.
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