# Trainer yanking on rope haulter



## sprite911 (Apr 13, 2014)

I made a post a few weeks ago about interviewing trainers, since then I have interviewed three others. I started to settled on one who is a Pirelli/Clinton Anderson style trainer but after watching her working with a problem horse tonight I am second guessing her.

I watched two sessions, one where she explained that the natural horsemanship style should allow a horse to find the correct or desired response at their own pace but provide the horse with a strong leader. She explained how the horse she was working with was an introvert and pushing the horse too hard would result in anxiety and confusion. I did observe that the horse was easily unnerved and in my opinion the trainer used the correct pressure and release to achieve the desired response while keeping the horse calm. She never pushed the horse or attempt to get quicker results.

The second horse she worked with was, in my opinion, very reactive. Extrovert as she described it (but honestly what ever gets the job done while maintaining a happy horse). The horse was not paying attention to her at all, it kept looking for a way out of its situation. To remedy this issue the trainer kept yanking on the halter, the horse would throw its head, bob its nose in the air and give her about half a second of its attention before it was looking to get away again.

I will be honest, I have never seen yanking on a halter fix any kind of problem, but yet it seamed to me she was attempting to get the horses attention back on her by yanking it. Of course I could be over reacting, I could be miss understanding the situation, I didn't really ask what the point of yanking on the halter was.. but maybe I should have.

I am very confused, on one hand I see her working a horse that is also a reactive type, easily stressed and she is very careful to not use too much pressure so she doesn't excite the horse. Then she worked with a second horse, who was looking to get away from the get go, instead of finding another way to bring the horses attention back she kept yanking the lead..

I firmly believe the only reason you should yank on a halter is to throw an out of control horse off balance in attempt to slow them down.. and even that part may not be the best idea.

Am I over reacting or am I right in thinking this training technique is not useful?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'd have to see the trainer working in real time to try and get a handle on what she was seeing and how she was interacting. I don't think whether you choose to yank on a lead line or not has anthing to do with the "personality type" of the horse. it has to do with whether or not the horse is available to you mentally or not.

it sounds like the second horse was externally focussed, and she was trying to interrup that outward focus. she could do that by sending him around , in a round pen or on a line, but to be honest, if he has not focus on her, what's the point of that? you might get the hrose exhausted enough that he starts to look somewhere else for an answer, otehr than outward. so, that's one possible alternative.
but, eventually, you want the horse to be looking to you for that place that feels good, not outward.


the other horse, the first one, maybe was all about fleeing the person. not that it was outward focussed on someplace it wanted to be, but rather, it was just worried about the human, very focussed on her, but worried about her, (while the second horse was not even aware enough of the human to be worried about her)
a horse that is worried about you so much that moving his feet causes him to go straight into flight is one that you would not be able to ride becuase the slightest thing would cause him to go off.

But, "yanking" on the rope is a tool , like any other. you use it as little as possible, but as much as necessary. you can usually get by with much, much less than that. it's just what puts a feel on the rope, and once you have the horse paying attention, that "feel" can be light as a feather.


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## sprite911 (Apr 13, 2014)

Thanks tinyline, it is good to have the input, I had decided when I was a kid that snapping or yanking a halter didn't seam to be a very effective tool so I stopped using it on my horses, but my horses were all really easy to handle, I never had to use much force to show them how to do something.

The trainer was attempting to get the second horse to stop running circles around her, she was attempting to get a walk but the horse kept braking into a canter. She never did get the horse to slow down. After a few laps she brought the horse over to a jump, stood at the horses side and asked the horse to go over the jump. She explained that the horse was used to taking ques from the head and when she stands off to the side of the jump the horse should understand the same 'forward' que. That makes sense to me, I can see the value in that, and that is why I am not training the horse, I wouldn't have thought of it, the Pirelli 7 games do emphasize the importance of getting a horse to understand a que from multiple locations, other training styles do this too, but don't point it out as blatantly IMHO.

She allowed the horse to sniff the jump when ever it turned it's attention toward the jump, but when the horse turned it's side toward the jump to ignore the situation she would snap the rope, then put pressure on his hips to turn the horse to face the jump and ask again. The horse was very energetic and did not want to stand still in front of the jump and his attention was constantly divided. She never did get the horses full attention but after the horse made the jump she decided to end the session, saying that she got what she wanted so the horse can rest.

I have attempted to neutrally present the situation, I know a video would be best but I think it would be unfair to the trainer.. I think it would be best to bring a knowledgeable person with me to assess the trainer in person as videos don't capture the atmosphere and even video can show a bias depending on how you shoot it. The only people I know who can help are other trainers, and I don't know any of them well enough to say they are giving an honest opinion about another trainers skill.

I will be going back again, to MAYBE sign a training contract but I think I would like to see her work with this horse again to see if this was an off day for the horse and to see if there is any improvement.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

How she yanks can make a difference. I'm inclined to go with small, albeit uncomfortable yanks, in a rhythmic fashion. The few seconds between yanks gives him time to change his focus and give me time to stop if he does. Horses often don't learn the first time he gets the release. The second time he's putting it together but may not have completely figured it out. Often by the third time they do but the real dumb or stubborn ones may need it done a fourth time. He had no respect for her and was "looking for the door". Ideally, if she gets both of his eyes looking at her she should step back a step and turn her back to him for a few seconds. This is a big release of pressure for the horse, a reward.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Yanking on the lead line seems to be a very common method of trying to get a horse's attention. Many people use more force and continue the procedure for a longer time than necessary. I guess the feeling is: "If a little is good, a lot is better."

There are numerous methods of getting a horse's attention. I suggest using the method which upsets the horse the least while getting the job done.

I liken this to a classroom situation. If a teacher yells, screams, and throws things every time she feels the class is not paying attention, tension is created. A tense atmosphere is not conducive to learning.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't mind yanking on a halter. I did that with Mia today because she was more interested in eating some grass than standing where I had her standing - understandable, but not tolerable. When she tried to go back to the grass, I jerked the rope and then got in her face and backed her up. I don't know if she is an introvert, extrovert or has any horsenality at all...I just knew she wasn't going to walk off and eat grass while I was tacking her up. She has ample free time. When I'm there, she is on MY time.

However, this would disturb me:

"_The trainer was attempting to get the second horse to stop running circles around her, she was attempting to get a walk but the horse kept [breaking] into a canter. She never did get the horse to slow down. After a few laps she brought the horse over to a jump, stood at the horses side and asked the horse to go over the jump._"

Maybe I'm missing something, but in what sense is it reasonable to expect a horse who is too wound up to slow down for you to jump something you put in front of him?

"_She explained that the horse was used to taking [cues] from the head and when she stands off to the side of the jump the horse should understand the same 'forward' [cue]. That makes sense to me, I can see the value in that..._"

I do not. When you are not getting the simple right, why would you jump ahead to the harder?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

its possible that she did that to give the hrose something else to focus on; the jump. sometiems you have to break things up, and if the horse isnt able to let go of his outward focus long enough to stop, and put his focus on the trainer (standing still can be very hard for a hrose that is mentally wound up), then allow/insisting he do some task is not such an unreasonable method to get him to put his focus on something other than outward.

the thing is, if you get the hrose's mind, you need to give it somewhere to go, somthing to do, especially if this horse is one who has a very short attention span. expecting it to stand there might not be reasonable, but getting it's attention long enough to direct it somewhere is perfectly reasonable.

you should not be "shouting" all the time with the rope, but if you are not really clear at some point, you will never be able to whisper, you'll always have to go to "loud".


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Parelli preaches "natural" but I've seen plenty of "crank and jerk" type training from Parelli followers, including the Parellis themselves (plenty of videos on YouTube). 

My advice would be to find a real trainer, not one that follows a set gimmicky style.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Any time someone goes into the 'extrovert/introvert, think/reactive, left/right' BS...my eyes glaze over.

Too many gimmicks with this one. Not reading horses well from what sounds like.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I'll give a halter a yank if a horse is about to run me over while I'm leading, or if he completely blows me off when I ask him to back up. The yank comes only after I've applied assertive body language -- if they ignore it, they get a "wake up call". One yank is usually all I need, although occasionally it might take two or three. I stop the moment that I get the response that I want (attention, halting or backing up).

Speaking of yanking applied improperly: I once had the misfortune of volunteering at a intercollegiate horse show. I was asked to tack up a young mare. She was a green horse who hadn't been to many (if any) shows or events. I tacked her up and brought her out to the warm up ring. She was nervous and fidgety. She didn't have any idea what was going on, and she was clearly overwhelmed. 

One of the team members told me to give the mare a yank to make her pay attention and quit dancing around. I knew that such action would only be likely to cause her to escalate, but I gave her a tug. My tug wasn't deemed adequate, because the team member took the reins from me and proceeded to jerk repeatedly on this mare's face. The mare was flying backwards, eyes wide, in a complete panic... and this girl kept right on yanking until the mare's headstall actually came off, at which point about 20 people tried to catch her while she scurried around the warm up ring.

The poor mare finally came to a stop alongside one of her pasture mates and was caught. The girl who had yanked on her bridle proceeded to put it back on... and then yank on it some more until it came off again. Finally the mare was deemed "too crazy" to be used in the show, and she was sent back with me to be untacked. I was absolutely seething. I took care of her, then left the show immediately afterwards. I actually contacted the mare's owner later to see if I could buy her and finish her training myself, because I knew that she was a smart little cookie (and cute as a button -- a grulla pinto). Unfortunately, the owner wanted something like $2000 for the unregistered, mixed breed, half trained mare. I still wonder about that little mare some of the time.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Any trainer who mentions introvert or extrovert would have me walking away before they could close their mouth.

A good trainer will work each horse as an individual and one that has to keep jerking on a halter to maintain its attention isn't doing things right.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I don't care much for labels. It's down to reading a horse. If my boy was standing and hollering for his girlfriend rather than listening to me and heading down the trail, he'll get a boot in the ribs or a yank on the halter because his attention is somewhere else and I know he's not really 'emotionally distressed,' he's just a bit distracted. Same horse frozen or tense with fear? Trying to use physical force would just trigger the explosion where as a calm 'go on now' and redirection back to the job at hand with a gentle squeeze or nudge on the shoulder will defuse it and he'll sigh, relax and move along. Individuals, and even then, the 'right' thing is different depending on the circumstances and the 'feel'.

That trainer could be fantastic and that horse just having a rough day. Or not. One thing I judge is guarantees- anyone who guarantees XYZ in ABC number of days is suspect to me. Real training, and real learning on the horse's part doesn't take a set amount of time and will vary. Good experienced trainers should be able to give you a ballpark, but will make sure you know that results will vary based on the individual animals.


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## Cielo Notturno (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm no one, and for sure I'm no trainer. I'd do some yank on the halter if my horse wants to rub it against his knees; he shouldn't do it and I don't have time for gentle cues. Right now, when he wants to eat grass I'm trying for small and frequent little pulls. 

When lunging, I can see yanking a horse if you have some important reason to make him stop _now_. 

I don't understand at all the reasoning behind the "yanking to make a running horse walk". If the horse is galloping, he's to excited/badly trained/scared to walk. 
As simple as that. 
Imho you just let him gallop until he's had enough of it, and then you make him gallop some more, and _then_, when he's really thinking that galloping is not that good an idea, you start asking things like walk and stop. You have his attention by then.
If you have the need to immediately control a horse who doesn't cooperate, any mean might be valid; sometimes emergencies happen and you just have to have the horse not running crazily and you can't wait. 
But if you are training? No reason to do silly stuff. The horse won't learn to walk in one lesson, if his intention is to run away. If you make a horse run, his attention will be on you eventually. An higher rank horse will make a lower rank move. Making the horse move is something he understands well. Once he knows that you are the one who makes him move, you can teach him about stopping. 

Honestly, even if I want the horse to stand still, I make him move. Like, you don't stand still? We'll do a small uncomfortable circle, and then I'll offer you to stand still again. You don't? I love circles, let's do two this time. Horsie soon realizes that he's wasting energy.


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