# Pushy horse..



## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I had problems with this with my 17hh beast of a mare. Obviously, with that kind of height, I can't afford for her to be pushy. I learned that if you pinch their neck (kind of like you do when you ask them to back up by their chest) they will leave you alone and back up. Also, I make a loud noise at them. They nudge me and I say "NUH-UH" in a low stern voice.

It is not acceptable for my horses to rub on me, nudge me to get treats, or anything like that. After a couple of pinches, they usually get it.


----------



## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Snapple122 said:


> How do you stop a horse from being pushy? My Shetland x Quarter horse always nudges me on my arm or stomach when she thinks I have treats for her, whether I'm leading her or standing still. It's not just a soft nudge, it's like a headbutt. And today I had a carrot in my hand when I went out to catch her, but I wasn't going to give it to her until I put her halter on. Well, she knew I had the carrot, and while I was trying to get her halter on, she just kept back up. What can I do to stop this? She really has no respect.
> 
> Thanks!


Well, to start things off, NO hand feeding or keep anything in your pockets. Only feed with a bucket. As for the nudging, the second she does it, a HARD smack on the nose is how I do it. I don't mean a gentle one either. 
It's not my favorite way of doing it, because some horse can become head shy, but unfortunately it's the only I found worked to fix my last horse's habit of nudging. He used to do it pretty hard to the point where he would physically move over. Another option is to keep a crop with you and smack her hard on the shoulder if she does it(tho I find this useless because the horses I have met could care less).

Took me a week to fix that issue.


----------



## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Did you give her the carrot? If you did then you, essentially, rewarded her for being bad. 
My current horse was a total a** when it came to being caught and being pushy, you need to teach her respect _fast_. 

We did a few things, and it really helped us, hopefully it'll help you.
Once we had him caught, we would take him into the paddock and basically just lead him around, stopping every minute or so to take the halter off and then put it back on rewarding him, when he was good, with pets and love. We did this over and over again with first the halter then the bridle, and now he's a total gem to catch because he has the RESPECT for us in that aspect. 
(I had to ad that in, because it sounded like you're having some halter issues as well). 

You also need to teach her to respect your personal space. My horse adores me, he follows me around the field waiting for love, and would practically walk on my heels. Not fun. One day I just got sick of it and took matters into my own hands. I was walking out with a treat for the ponies and he was on me again, all I did was make sure he was at arms length AT ALL TIMES.

Push her away if she gets too close, if she's not being violent, she'll get the point. Teach her patience, and once she's being good _then_ give her the treat. You need to establish yourself as boss, and though there are many ways to do it that work differently with different horses, that's how I did it with mine.


----------



## Snapple122 (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for your ideas everyone! I will have to try pinching her neck and see if that works, as that is one technique that I haven't tried. M2G- I think I am partly to blame for her bad habits because I always hand feed her treats, unless it's at her dinner time when sometimes I give her a small amount of oats in a rubber dish along with her hay. I've tried tapping her on her nose and saying "NO" but she doesn't have the respect for me to listen. I guess I need to work on her getting some respect. alexis- I did give her the carrot, but after I got the halter on. The thing is, I don't think she wants to be patted and loved. It sounds weird because I know that all horses like to be rewarded and patted, but whenever I go to pet Snapple on her nose or whatever, she always turns her head away and she walks away from me in the pasture most of the time. I don't have many issues with catching her, sometimes she walks away but I follow her and she stops. When I have her halter on, she does follow me.. and when I'm in the arena and I take her halter off she follows me then as well. She is 26 years old, so I don't know if it's too late to teach her respect and stuff but I am getting tired of her lack of respect for me.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I had to work on this with my foal, not because he was searching for treats but because he just didn't know how to respect a person's space. When he would walk into me or nudge against me, I would do whatever I had to do to get his feet moving backward as fast as he could. I would bump him with the halter, pop him in the shoulder with a lead rope, push my thumb into his chest and make him back 8 or 10 steps then just go on like nothing happened. One afternoon of that and he quit invading my space. He still occasionally has a forgetful moment but one reprimand of running backward and he remembers.


----------



## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

Your horse doesn't seem to have a lot of respect in that sense, so start her respect training again. 

With the haltering issue, alexischristina's point of taking the halter on and off and rewarding her when she does well. If she really is that much of a problem, I'd suggest leaving the halter on when she's in the field. 

As for the nudging and pushing, that is NOT acceptable and needs to be corrected. When she nudges you, you could give her a smack on the nose (or shoulder), as My2Geldings suggested, but to avoid her becoming headshy just make up for it with twice as many rubs and caresses at other times. If you do this, she'll learn that when she nudges, she gets hit, but that you are perfectly kind and gentle otherwise. Since she does this when you have food, you should show her that YOU are boss, and YOU decide when and what she eats. I don't think you do anyways, but do not give her the treats when she does that-that's just telling her that pushing is the right thing to do. Whenever she's eating, go up to her and take her away from it, for a short walk; make her stand looking at it, whatever, just show her that you are in control of her eating habits.

When she's pushy and invading, get her away from you. Send her away out of your personal space forcefully. Not angry, just aggressive enough to get your point across and make her move. This is a little technique that works all the time for me. I wave the horse back away from me (to the end of the lead rope, or sometimes I drop the lead and make them go farther) and make her stay that far away from you until YOU invite HER back towards you. If she does try to come towards you, back her up again and keep her out until she gets the picture. (Also try turning, or walking a few steps to show her that this is NOT the cue to come closer.) Under no circumstances should she be allowed to come up to you until you clearly invite her. 

Sorry for the long post, but I hope at least some of it is useful.


----------



## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Snapple122 said:


> I think I am partly to blame for her bad habits because I always hand feed her treats, unless it's at her dinner time when sometimes I give her a small amount of oats in a rubber dish along with her hay. I've tried tapping her on her nose and saying "NO" but she doesn't have the respect for me to listen. She is 26 years old, so I don't know if it's too late to teach her respect and stuff but I am getting tired of her lack of respect for me.


 Good for you for seeing the route of the problem. You don't want to hear the list of problems I have caused with my way of handling some horses I have worked with. So don't worry, we are all doing it.
As for her age. It's never to late to teach them manners, it just might take longer. You know what, unless she absolutely needs it for weight or health reasons, I would completely remove any form of treat out of her routine. I would remove everything completely for however long until she slowly stops looking for them and give yourself and her a break. 
Slowly re-introduce what you actually need, or what benefits her health and very -extremely- quick on punishing her if she starts up again with her current behavior. Correcting, can be anything from saying "no" to pulling her halter back and backing her up, to a good smack on the nose and the list goes on. It really depends on what she actually does.

But yes, you can definitely re-teach her to behave herself instead of pushing for what she wants.


----------



## Snapple122 (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for the post smrobs! There are a few techniques in there that I will try. 
Thanks ily! That was a very helpful posy. I don't really have an issue with haltering, but I think some of those things will help teach her respect. I'm going to try giving her a quick smack on the nose when she nudges, and hopefully she will get the message that it is not ok. I don't give her treats when she nudges but I do when I get the halter on, which I guess I shouldn't do. When I take her out to let her graze, I think maybe that's like a reward to her so maybe if she nudges well we're out, I might just take her back to the paddock. I took her for a walk around our yard, and when we got to the grass, she was pulling my arm trying to put her head down to eat, I was trying to keep walking but she kept pulling so I made her wait until we got back to the fence to eat. That's a problem too though, her pulling my arm off all the time when we're near grass. I do try and push her away from me, but she just doesn't seem to care or get it. When I try to get her out of my space she always walks back toward me. I try to give a quick yank on the leadrope for her to stay back but she just comes back up to me. How do I make her stay back?


----------



## Snapple122 (Aug 8, 2008)

thank you again, M2G! I know hand feeding can cause big problems, but I just did it anyway because I know she likes carrots and she loves mints. I think cutting out treats is a good idea. She will learn that she doesn't get a treat everytime I go to see her. And she doesn't need them anyway. She could lose a few pounds. 
It is good to know that it is possible to train her and make her gain some respect.


----------



## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

Not quite sure I read that right, but DON'T put her back in the paddock when she nudges and misbehaves. Going back to her comfortable field is a reward. When she pulls on you to put her head down and eat, and she doesn't respond when you try and pull her head up to continue my best advice would be to instead back her up. Give her a few whacks on the chest when she ignores you and get her head up and her feet moving. If she ignores you, be more imposing. If you do have to, be so loud and expressive that it's impossible for her to ignore you. (A slightly raised, stern voice and a few smacks should get her attention, though). Once her head is up and away from the grass, continue walking forwards like nothing happened.

Getting her to stay away from you will take time and patience. She seems quite disrespectful, so it might take a few days of this. Just be repetitive and persistent and eventually she will catch on. When she continues to approach you, keep making her back up and get away from you. As soon as she takes one step towards you, back her up some more. Right now you should probably not ever invite her into your space. Instead, go up to her (without hesitation) and proceed to pet her or whatever. Until she can stay out of your space 100% of the time, it's probably not advisable to invite her in. 

Hope that helps, good luck! Keep us posted.


----------



## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

Yeah, you made a good point...you shouldn't have treats every time you go and see her, or she will learn that you always have something for her to eat. Personally, I only give treats as a great reward (like after riding, or when my stubborn mare goes into the trailer). Pats and a praising voice should be reward enough, and though right now it seems your horse doesn't care about being loved and patted, that's probably because she'd rather have a treat instead.


----------



## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

^^ This will also make her appreciate treats so much more when you do give them.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yeah, for the first bit after you push her out of your space, she will walk right back up into it. You just have to be consistent and keep pushing her backward until she keeps her feet still at a distance that you want. I don't know how many trips Rafe and I made around the place going backward because he kept walking right back up on top of me. When she stops moving toward you after you back her away, don't have her come to you for scratches, leave her feet stationary and go to her and give her a good scratch. That helps to reinforce that it is pleasant to be close to you but only when _you_ want it.


----------



## coffeemama (Jul 10, 2009)

Snapple122 said:


> How do you stop a horse from being pushy? My Shetland x Quarter horse always nudges me on my arm or stomach when she thinks I have treats for her, whether I'm leading her or standing still. It's not just a soft nudge, it's like a headbutt. And today I had a carrot in my hand when I went out to catch her, but I wasn't going to give it to her until I put her halter on. Well, she knew I had the carrot, and while I was trying to get her halter on, she just kept back up. What can I do to stop this? She really has no respect.
> 
> Thanks!


I had same problem with my gelding. No more treats period. They need to focus on you and respect not food at this point. Use a rope halter with a snap and re-establish your personal space if they continually invade it, make them back up and jiggle the rope to get them back be tough about it and anytime they wander into your space snap them back til they learn the new guidelines. After a week or so of success with this, then a treat can reward them for respecting your new space but only if they dont invade and retreat, must be after they aren't thinking about the treats anymore and have focus on you.


----------



## Smarby (Oct 27, 2007)

I haven't read the replies but generally, if you have a very food orientated horse it is unlikely that they'll ever put manners before grubs. I'm speaking from exerpiance as i used to look after a Shetland and i have a very greedy, very food orientated Highland. I have compeltely cut out hand treats as he gets ridiculously bargy and no amount of ground work seemed to make him listen when there was food involved. This isn't really a solution if you want to continue hand feeding him, but it would make life a lot easier. Shetlands can be little devils when it comes to grub.


----------



## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Snapple122 said:


> And today I had a carrot in my hand when I went out to catch her, but I wasn't going to give it to her until I put her halter on. Well, she knew I had the carrot, and while I was trying to get her halter on, she just kept back up. What can I do to stop this? She really has no respect.


This is one reason that many folks never hand feed treats, but you can fix this with patience and still hand feed if you want. If she thinks/knows you have a treat and starts backing up, tell her to stop (using whatever word you use), and try again. Repeat as necessary, but don't give in/up. Eventually, you'll conquer the behavior.


----------



## Seahorseys (Nov 14, 2009)

my horse doesn't head butt, but she does know exactly where the treats are kept - even before she gets one. They can be in the front pocket, back pocket, or shirt pocket - and she will stretch her neck out and lip the correct pocket, everytime. She's like a bloodhound, lol. For this type of thing, I just pretend like I'm pinching and jiggling her cheeks, but I do it to her muzzle and face. I talk in a real high pitched voice like I am some type of over-bearing aunt. She doesn't like it. She has never really bit or head butted me in a "habit-established kind of way, but she had previously begun to amble into my space a bit when she was distracted or nervous. Whenever she's exhibited that type of behavior, I always bump her with my elbow and make her back up and stand in her own space. Case in point, we had a show-down at the gate a while back, it took me 20 minutes to get out of the arena because she tried to rush by me, then she'd creep. Sneaky mare. I've also noticed that she seems to deliberately move her stronger front foot as a last attempt to use it as a power play. Even if she just moves that one foot a half step, I still set her back and repeat the process, because I wasn't in control of that one foot! Head-butting, rubbing, and lipping is an over-familiarity that a lot of horses get in the habit of, and it breaks down the teacher-pupil relationship and blurs the lines of respect. It's a hard habit to correct because it is human nature to see lipping and rubbing as affectionate behaviour, not disrespect. 

I let my cat head-butt me though, lol.


----------



## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

I don't disagree -at all- with bucket feeding the treats, but I always feed mine by hand-mostly because I'm too lazy to go and actually get a bucket. My mare does like her treats, but they are a rare occurrence and she knows they aren't the greatest reward she can have. She knows very well I have more in my pocket, but she knows better than to touch me. What she does is the same as Seahorseys: stand an arm length away and stretch her nose towards me, lipping towards my pocket. When she does that I just back her up and make her stand quietly, and then she can have another.

Not saying either way is right or wrong, but it is possible to respectfully feed them by hand...the key is that they actually have to respect you first.


----------



## SeWHC (Jul 1, 2009)

Stop with the treats. No treat should pass directly from your hand to her mouth. Get a hanging fence feeder by the gate or something. If you are going to give a treat, put it in the bucket while you are on the other side of the fence. 

As for running into you, I wouldn't smack her on the face, or anywhere. I mean, sure, that's one way to do it, but unless she's lunging at you with her teeth bared you don't really *need* to. 

Passive self-training is beneficial here. Let her train herself. It's like I mentioned in the thread with the horse that leans on the bit. Always keep your eye on her. When she come in to nudge/run you over, put out your hand with one knuckle sticking out right in her line of fire. She'll run right into it. "when i do that, it hurts". You have to be persistent, and do it every time she tries it. Let her run directly into that knuckle with her face. She won't see it happen if you're quick enough, but she'll get the negative reaction when she does it. She'll stop, trust me. 


This is how I train a horse that likes to rub on people. It takes about 10 minutes. When you've got an itchy horse, go to rub the side of their face for them. They'll inevitably start rubbing back harder. As soon as it happens, let them run into your knuckle, say NO, and stop rubbing. The idea is, I'll rub you, you NEVER rub me. Stand totally still when the horse starts rubbing back. When they stop moving, you start rubbing again. Rinse, repeat.


----------



## SilverSpur (Mar 25, 2010)

first off get rid of the treats!

every time she goes to nudge you, give her a quick sharp elbow in the muzzle. i dont like to slap as some horses become shy from only one. and then you have yourself another problem.

work her in the halter, teach her to keep out of your space. backing up, turning on the haunches away from you(Never towards you!). turn on the fore. lots of walking and halting, then trotting and halting. the most important thing here to to be patent and relaxed. it may take one session it may take 10. but a horse is never too old to learn.


----------



## Snapple122 (Aug 8, 2008)

thank you so much for the help, everyone! I took her for a walk around the paddock and yard and tried a few of the things that worked for other people on here. After a few taps on the nose, I think she's starting to get that she is not allowed to push me around.. especially not to get a treat. I made her stand in her own space for a while. At first, she wouldn't stand our her own, she kept trying to walk toward me but I pushed her back and made her stand. After a few minutes, she got it and stood on her own. Here are some pictures. 































Thanks again, everyone!


----------



## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

Looks like she's coming along great! In no time she'll be perfectly respectful-just keep working with her.


----------



## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Good Pony!


----------



## SeWHC (Jul 1, 2009)

Lol she's adorable. No wonder she's been spoiled her whole life.


----------

