# Is this a grass belly or pregnancy?



## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I know I've posted a post before about breeding my mare, there was a bit of a debate a few weeks ago ono whether she was pregnant but my vet came out and said she wasn't but said I need to take her to the clinic to find out for sure with an ultrasound... Well we just took his word since his clinic so far off but today I noticed my mares stomach has something serious going on with it..

Really would like help on this, I don't believe my horse has ever had grass belly so I wouldn't know what to look for. She has been in a pasture with two geldings and a yearling colt, one gelding we know for sure is gelded the other we aren't sure because he is my friends and no one can get close to him to check, we can't just look because he is way to fluffy.

This was two weeks ago when I first noticed her udders were enlarged and producing milk.(Only picture I have that shows her full body, she was in the middle of walking or something.. o.o)








This was the same day the vet came out and said she wasn't pregnant, probably a week ago.(Sorry for the darkness)








And this was today when she just shocked me to the point I almost fell over.






















Any ideas? I need some help proving to my parents something is going on with her, be it good or bad.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

It looks like she could have pitting edema on her belly......when you press her belly with you fingers does it leave finger marks?

Super Nova


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Super Nova said:


> It looks like she could have pitting edema on her belly......when you press her belly with you fingers does it live finger marks?
> 
> Super Nova


That is a good question, I'm going to go out and see.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well I just ran across the pasture because she didn't come when I called her. >>

Anyway, no her stomach is firm. I can push on it but it doesn't leave any kind of mark.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

This is the same mare that you were posting pics of yesterday asking about possible breeding for next year?

I really struggle with this statement



> eally would like help on this, I don't believe my horse has ever had grass belly so I wouldn't know what to look for. She has been in a pasture with two geldings and a yearling colt, one gelding we know for sure is gelded the other we aren't sure because he is my friends and no one can get close to him to check, we can't just look because he is way to fluffy.​




Is the yearling colt still whole??

As to the geldings, you know one is but you're _*not sure*_ about the other??

WHY is your mare out in this situation?


​


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The vet that said she wasn't pregnant, did he palpate her or just look at her and say "Nope! She isn't pregnant!"? 

And I agree very, very much with what GH posted.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

The yearling isn't with her anymore, he was sold a year ago when he was a yearling, he is going on two now.

I sold the gelding that I knew was a gelding a few months back. The other male is with her because my friend needed somewhere to keep him last year and he has been at my house ever since. I really had no idea anything was going to happen with her being with him or a yearling.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

couldn't you just ask her if he's a gelding or a stallion? Seems to me that asking that would be one of the first things you should do.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Once again, how did the vet determine if she was or was not pregnant? By looking, palpation, what?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Endiku said:


> couldn't you just ask her if he's a gelding or a stallion? Seems to me that asking that would be one of the first things you should do.


:wink: That sounds simple enough!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Once again, how did the vet determine if she was or was not pregnant? By looking, palpation, what?


Forgot to answer a question before I went off to dinner. The vet just looked at her to determine if she was pregnant or not. He looked at her udders then lifted her tail, after that he just said she wasn't pregnant. No palpation or anything.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Good grief. I would be getting a second opinion. There is no way to tell 100% that a mare is pregnant just by looking unless feet are presenting. You can make a pretty good guess, but there are mares who have false pregnancies. I have a mare that you would swear is pregnant looking at her... but she isn't.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Good grief. I would be getting a second opinion. There is no way to tell 100% that a mare is pregnant just by looking unless feet are presenting. You can make a pretty good guess, but there are mares who have false pregnancies. I have a mare that you would swear is pregnant looking at her... but she isn't.


That is what I'm thinking, I may take her to a closer vet for an ultrasound that way a 40 dollar take will stay 40 instead of it being 100 with the vet coming out into the boonies. She has had a foal before, I keep trying to remember back but I can't seem to remember if she got this big or not. That is what is getting me so confused. She has been leaking a cloudy milk for 2 weeks now and her udders filling in and then out.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I would get her in as soon as possible to be on the safe side. At least if she turns out to not be pregnant, you know that the bagging is all hormonal.

When did the yearling leave last year? (curious)


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> I would get her in as soon as possible to be on the safe side. At least if she turns out to not be pregnant, you know that the bagging is all hormonal.
> 
> When did the yearling leave last year? (curious)


 
I think he left in the middle of April, he was born April 2. My parents are telling me just to wait it out because they still want to believe the first vet, I work for my brother tonight and I should have enough for an ultrasound, maybe monday if she waits that long.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If he had both testicles down, or even just one down, he very well could have bred her. It is not unheard of.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I definitely looked into that and it wouldn't surprise me, though if she throws a foal down I will have to speak to the person I sold a mare that was also with mine who left after the yearling did. Wouldn't that be a shocker? Two foals before he is even two years old. I never actually looked for anything but my dad said he noticed them. If she throws a foal or starts showing more signs then I will defintely keep everyone updated. Do you know if a foal out of mother and son will cause any problems?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

There is a horse in with your mare, and you don't know if it's a gelding or a stallion? Friend's horse or not, that would have been my first question, and I certainly would have made sure myself before allowing the horse into the field with her.
There are even more reasons in this thread for you to (please) not breed her.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

She told me he is a gelding, I'm starting to think he is a gelding and that if my mare is pregnant it is from the yearling that was in with her, he hadn't been cut yet and I don't think the people that own him now have cut him yet. The male in with her now doesn't act like a stallion so I'm doubting he is the case. I didn't think that a yearling could get a mare pregnant until today when I looked into it.


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## sweetaspiexlove (Mar 10, 2011)

This story has confused me to the point of me staring at my compter like :O
Sorry for the lack of input, but if anything, this is your fault and I don't feel bad saying that.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I can see how it would be my fault, though I had no idea a yearling can get a mare in foal. That is the only explaination I have to if she is pregnant or not. I'm going to be calling the geldings owner and getting him out of our pasture just in case she is close to foaling.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Actually you're a minor correct? Then technically it isn't your fault. 

Yes, someone should have known, but I am guessing you do not have control over which horses are where, etc.?

There are actually a lot of people who do not think that yearling colts can breed, or that yearling mares can get pregnant. At this point I don't think I would be feeling bad, but I would be doing everything I could to make sure it doesn't happen again and learning from the mistakes made.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Actually you're a minor correct? Then technically it isn't your fault.
> 
> Yes, someone should have known, but I am guessing you do not have control over which horses are where, etc.?
> 
> There are actually a lot of people who do not think that yearling colts can breed, or that yearling mares can get pregnant. At this point I don't think I would be feeling bad, but I would be doing everything I could to make sure it doesn't happen again and learning from the mistakes made.


Correct I'm a minor. Though it was technically my ignorance that put her in that situation.

Though I do think there should be more warnings on yearling colts, yes you should get them castrated before they come of two years but no where in any book that I have read does it say if you choose to wait for them to be older you should seperate them from mares that are able to breed including yearling fillies. Now I know not to ever keep a colt in with a mare, I was planning on keeping him and I was going to seperate him from the others when he was two and wait a bit which is what the stallion owner said I should do to let him fill out more before I gelded him.... Never again.

Now if she is pregnant, does anyone mind telling me if a mother and son foal will have any permenant damages just by the inbreeding? Unfortunatly the yearling she was with was her own colt. :shock:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

The risk of abnormality, well I've never researched it, but I think probably low.

When breeds are first being developed fathers are bred back to daughters and possibly sons to mothers, to try and establish and intensify the traits that you are breeding for. The best bull that was ever born on the farm here came from a cow who had been bred back to her father before we bought her. In that case we were very very luck, all the positive things in the line had been reinforced and we had an awesome little Angus.

The biggest risk in your situation is that all the less desirable traits in the line will be doubled, and you have not such a good foal.

At this stage, you can't worry about it, we all live and learn, and you are now at the hoping for the best stage, IF she is in foal, then you MAY just get lucky and win the foal lottery and have a little stunner, it's just a long shot that's all.

We all learn by our mistakes, and we all make mistakes, the big trick in life is not repeating them:wink:


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ditto pretty much what GH said. 

And just fyi, you do not have to wait until they are two to geld. That is all personal preference. My pony colt was gelded at about 4.5 months old. Both testicles were there and he was attempting to mount his mom (probably just in play) so I wasn't going to take any chances, more so since I have a full sized mare that wouldn't of hesitated to lay down to be bred by him *coughflooziecough*. lol The joys of owning animals!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

It was a personal idea but IF she is pregnant if it's another colt it will be gelded as soon as possible.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Ladybug2001 said:


> Though I do think there should be more warnings on yearling colts


I know you said it in all seriousness but it made me laugh.

Colts need to come out with a warning printed across their side about how they can breed any mare once they reach sexual maturity.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I know you said it in all seriousness but it made me laugh.
> 
> Colts need to come out with a warning printed across their side about how they can breed any mare once they reach sexual maturity.


Wow, xD. You know exactly what I meant by that.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gjcst (Mar 19, 2011)

sweetaspiexlove said:


> This story has confused me to the point of me staring at my compter like :O
> Sorry for the lack of input, but if anything, this is your fault and I don't feel bad saying that.


 

I'm new here, but this just struck me wrong!! Yes, you should have made sure there was no stallion in with your mare, but you are young and inexperienced and are here now trying to get the best information you can for the situation. Live and learn!! We have all made some bad decisions in our life....Kudos to you for asking questions!! If you can't feel safe coming here to ask questions, where will you go!! 

You can also do a blood test to tell if she is pregnant since she would be so far along! If you know someone who can draw the blood for you just take that to the vet. (make sure your vet will do that and if not call others. you will find one that will.) I did that one year on a mare that checked open, but just kept getting a bigger and bigger belly! They did have me come by the vet and pick up a glass vile to put the blood in. Ended up she was just fat, but at least it put my mind to rest! Didn't have to hook up a trailer either...that was kinda nice!! 

Mother to son breeding...you will double the good traits, but you will also double the bad....Pray the good win out!  You won't get a monster, lol prayers for a healthy foal if she's pregnant!! 

Good luck and please post the findings!!


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## jdw (Mar 17, 2011)

At this point I would have to say it's vet clinic time; either way, it's got to be determined by the vet (whether its good or bad). If she's pregnant now it doesn't matter how it happened, and if she's not you goot afind out whats going on inside.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I will be sure to say what I find, I think I will be taking her to the vet by Monday if I can get her in that soon. Though hopefully she will be nice and load in the trailer, I was trying to load her in to take the gelding out because he absolutely refused to get in, normally she loads very well but was refusing to for once in her life. I have been keeping her in the stall just incase she does foal, I wouldn't want the gelding having a go at the little one. I'm sure if she holds out 'till Monday and I find out she is pregnant I will be getting that gelding out one way or another, walking or trailering. 

I got both my parents out to look at her and my mom now is on the side of her being pregnant, her stomach was moving a lot up on her flank. Though when my dad started pushing on her stomach she got a little irritated and wanted to either kick or bite him, that tells me she is tender on her stomach close to her legs.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Alright, I just got in from feeding her grain. While I was out there she was stomping every foot and swishing her tail a lot, a few times I noticed her kick at her stomach and there was a few wet spots on her side where she had nipped at after drinking. Also, when I was grooming her sides she folded her ears back and stopped eating, her sides were moving a lot near her flank again. She stopped eating a few times and I noticed her udder and bag was starting to fill more from where they were earlier this morning. I lifted her tail, no resistance and her vulva looks less tight and drooped from a few weeks ago.


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## gjcst (Mar 19, 2011)

can you post a picture of her bag today?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

This is the newest I've taken, though they are getting bigger each time I go out there. They are stiffer then they were before, before they continuallly leaked milk but now no milk is expressed unless you squeeze them, even then it doesn't take much.









When I go out again before I go to work I will take a picture again.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

These pictures were taken a little at 5 in the afternoon today.

Udder:








Front view:








Back view:









Side:








If you seen the first pictures you can maybe tell a different from two days ago and today.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A friend's mare went thro months of false pregnancy. Worried about not being set up for a new foal the vet was called. Her gut too had movement near the flank. She had been in with a young stallion so perhaps it was wishful thinking. She wasn't in foal and after the vet had palpated her it's like she deflated.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> A friend's mare went thro months of false pregnancy. Worried about not being set up for a new foal the vet was called. Her gut too had movement near the flank. She had been in with a young stallion so perhaps it was wishful thinking. She wasn't in foal and after the vet had palpated her it's like she deflated.


I'm kind of hoping for that being the case, I would hate to have to tell people she has her own son's foal. Hopefully the vet will be out here monday.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I am confused as you seem to be recognizing the signs of pregnancy, but you didn't know that a year old colt could breed. 

Maybe you have just done some research since?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

AlexS said:


> I am confused as you seem to be recognizing the signs of pregnancy, but you didn't know that a year old colt could breed.
> 
> Maybe you have just done some research since?


Yes, I didn't know yearling colts could breed. When I started recognizing signs I weighed what could have made her pregnant. She was with two geldings and a year old colt. One gelding we didn't know for sure was gelded but we made sure today when his owner came by, so the only one left is the stud colt. I did research on that and sure enough, its common.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Ladybug2001 said:


> Forgot to answer a question before I went off to dinner. The vet just looked at her to determine if she was pregnant or not. He looked at her udders then lifted her tail, after that he just said she wasn't pregnant. No palpation or anything.


Get a new vet!!! That is ridiculous!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I definitely plan on getting one out here soon, one willing to do an ultrasound. If I have to I will bring her to a closer vet if that is how I have to get an ultrasound or palpation done.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

That udder shows an enlarged teat, but there is not much "bagging up". It doesn't look like there is much volume in that bag.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, it has been constantly going up and down. They both are getting bigger each time I look. Also, like I said before they had been leaking a cloudy colored milk substance. Now you don't get anything unless you squeeze them, when that happens you are sure to get enough to make you think you can milk her. She isn't maiden so I have no idea what to look for at this point. Though with fake pregnancies do you get the enlarged, dropped stomach and something that looks and feels like a foal moving inside? Also a foal kicking inside? Another question, do their vulvas normally start to not be as tight and start seeming longer and more wrinkled?


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## Missdv (Nov 4, 2010)

I am also confused, why did the vet just look and not palpitate her? Did you have him come over for a pregnancy test or just an exam. I bought a horse that was originally brought over to not be bred, but the stallion got her, an unproven young one. If their testicles drop they can breed, had a peke impregnate a 9mo old female at 6 months with only one dropped. My girl as bred on May 17 and is due around April 20th, so if your's was around the yearling in April she would be due anytime. I would get her to a vet asap or get one out there, the other vet should have taken care of this if you already paid for a visit.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

If she is pregnant and this close to having a foal, any competent vet will be able to palpate and feel the foal, they can "bounce" the foals head through the rectum palpation.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I have not a clue why he just looked at her and did nothing further. When we first called him out it was to see if she was pregnant or not, we told him that she was dripping milk. This was before her stomach dropped and we could feel lots of movements from it. Though, he did say we should bring her to his clinic for an ultrasound to make sure, that tells me he wasn't positive she wasn't bred. I do believe we are taking her to the vet tomorrow to reduce a call cost. If she deems pregnant its a fight to get the gelding out and then another waiting game. Though, just incase until then I will be acting as if she is a pregnant mare, feeding her twice daily and checking on her multiple times through out the day as much as I can.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Ladybug2001 said:


> Yes, it has been constantly going up and down. They both are getting bigger each time I look. Also, like I said before they had been leaking a cloudy colored milk substance. Now you don't get anything unless you squeeze them, when that happens you are sure to get enough to make you think you can milk her. She isn't maiden so I have no idea what to look for at this point. Though with fake pregnancies do you get the enlarged, dropped stomach and something that looks and feels like a foal moving inside? Also a foal kicking inside? Another question, do their vulvas normally start to not be as tight and start seeming longer and more wrinkled?


My mare was breed once and her teats will often express milk in the spring due to hormones.

I would really encourage you to get a different vet and have her checked properly

Super Nova


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Alright, it is ideal that I get a new vet to check her and I plan on it. Tomorrow we are trying to get her in after school so I don't have to miss any time, if we can't we are going to try for Tuesday, any day after that I will have to not go and my dad take her. Today I took more pictures, they aren't as large but expressing milk is a lot harder to do though when it does seep out is is a lot whiter then before? She seemed rather uncomfortable today again, moving away and lifting her tail while just standing there. One thing is for sure, her appitite has increased, she would eat anything I put in front of her. I don't know what she gots going on, she is touchy on the stomach and flanks, she use to just stand while I groom her now she just wants me to get away, its really odd. Though, hopefully the vet will help us all and say if she is just wishing or actually has a foal in there.

Two are side views from either side and one was from under the belly. 
























This is her stomach, I had to kind of get closer to her today because she was in the barn eating her hay.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Hmm her teat make me think no... like Nova my bred mare starts acting like she is gonna pop milk dripping everywhere etc when she is in season apparently normal in mares who have foaled before.
Her belly however looks like baby belly and the faqct you can feel somthing when you push in at the flank says baby to me to.
Im stumped.
Just out of curiosity have you any pictures of the potential daddy


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

MaggiStar said:


> Hmm her teat make me think no... like Nova my bred mare starts acting like she is gonna pop milk dripping everywhere etc when she is in season apparently normal in mares who have foaled before.
> Her belly however looks like baby belly and the faqct you can feel somthing when you push in at the flank says baby to me to.
> Im stumped.
> Just out of curiosity have you any pictures of the potential daddy


 
That is why I am stumped! With her first foal, well at least we thing was her first foal, she showed every sign before except the fact I can't remember if she was this large or not. Though I also dont' think her udders got very large even after foaling? Also this is her second year after having a foal, a year and a half since she has had to produce milk. Last year she didn't do this to me, what a confusing mare. o.o Hmm, yes he is a year in this picture... ignore me trying to hold him still, his face is exactly like the mares with the blaze running down. >>







I'll post another if I find one of the good pictures that will upload.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well this picture is a bit older, he is only two months but eh, I should be seeing him here soon. The people I sold him to I don't think got him gelded and yet they have a mare in the same paddock as him and he is going on two really soon.








This is when he was four months old.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

He is a nice looking boy from the pictures hopefully if he bred her you will have a good solid decent horse to work off


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well I sure do hope that is true, though in a few pictures I have of him I can see his front feet are rather close together, hopefully that is just the timing I got the picture. :/


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I just thought of a question, say my mare is pregnant for all intense purposes. Should I stop feeding her at 10 at night so I don't disturb her? I've read mares foal between 10 at night to 6 in the morning I believe. Her first foal was born around 6 in the morning so should I not worry about disturbing her at 10?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If she is used to a schedule, stick to that schedule.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> If she is used to a schedule, stick to that schedule.


If I had any hint she was pregnant two months ago she would have been on this schedule since then, but seem how I just had this start happening the last three weeks she hasn't been on it until this last week. So should I still?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Is she lacking in food? She looks to be in good weight, if not overweight. 

Why are you feeding her at 10? Is it just so you can check her?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

She wasn't this big until just lately, o.o before that she was only being fed once a day. Though yes, I've been feeding her about 7 in the morning and 10 at night so I can check on her before I sleep and before I go to school, I got in that habit with her first foal as well.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Just a question... Are you feeding her more now though or the same amount, just at different times than before?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm feeding her the amount she is use to during the winter months, just at different times. In the spring, mostly because of my father, I am instructed to give her less feed since the grass starts growing and is more nutrient. So instead of going to spring time feed I am giving her winter time.. So to ultimately answer your question, more feed then she normally would get at this time of year, though not by a staggering amount.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That is what I was wondering. It sounded like you had upped her feed from what she was getting before. I just wanted to clarify.

Now just out of curiosity, what is she on? Like i said, more of out curiosity.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Sweet feed, 10%. Though during the rough parts of the winter I had to give her some supplements due to her coat not growing in, as well as a blanket seem how we had two blizzards. She didn't gain weight it seemed at all though, so I do not believe I have been feeding her to much.... Well aside from this last month which I hadn't been giving her supplements at that time.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

She have free choice hay?


In all honest, I don't like just sweet feeds. I feel they don't do anything more then add a bunch of unneeded sugars to a horse's diet.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

During the winter months she had free choice of hay though only when there was snow on the ground would she eat it. Though this last month I've noticed her picking at the hay a lot more then usual. So.. no idea. There is plenty of green grass growing so I don't know why shes not eating it. 

I'm aware many people don't like sweet feed, if I had my choice I wouldn't be feeding her sweet feed. Though even if its my money paying for her vet care and all, my dad still buys feed and would throw a fit if I asked for anything different. (Hopefully) I'm moving to Texas within the next year to live with a friend who has a very nice facility that will let me bring my mare, they don't use sweetfeed so she will be on a better diet. As soon as this whole.. weird pregnancy signs get through with I'm going to start taking over more things that consist of her.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That is why I just said it was my opinion. :wink: 

For what it is worth, her udder, or lack there of, looks like one of my mares a couple years after she had foaled. It was more that she has had foals in the past and has enlarged nipples. The bag can grow and produce milk in the spring without being pregnant, and that _is _normal. I am really, truly hoping that is what is going on with her, but I am not going to hold my breath.

Do you have an appointment for tomorrow or were you going to call the vet tomorrow? (brain farting and not wanting to dig through the thread to find out  )


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

I don't have anything to add to the original questions... just thought I'd stop in and commend your attitude in this situation. Having just read a similar thread on a different forum, this was much more pleasant to read. I wish more people would be open minded and educate themselves like you are, rather than give a nasty know-it-all attitude to those trying to help.
I hope your mare has an uncomplicated foaling if she is indeed pregnant. 
And of coarse we'll want pictures!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> That is why I just said it was my opinion. :wink:
> 
> For what it is worth, her udder, or lack there of, looks like one of my mares a couple years after she had foaled. It was more that she has had foals in the past and has enlarged nipples. The bag can grow and produce milk in the spring without being pregnant, and that _is _normal. I am really, truly hoping that is what is going on with her, but I am not going to hold my breath.
> 
> Do you have an appointment for tomorrow or were you going to call the vet tomorrow? (brain farting and not wanting to dig through the thread to find out  )


No, the vet was closed over the weekend and I've only recently argued my point well enough to talk my parents into making an appointment. Though, unfortunatly I have a strong vibe that she is pregnant... :/ I just got in from being out with her and her stomach kept kicking away every so often, one was strong enough or sudden enough to make her almost bolt right past me. I had the same feeling on her first foal, I strongly wanted a filly but something told me she was going to have a colt.. and wala.. I got a colt. So I really do think she is pregnant, though I really wish she wasn't. I wasn't prepared for this and I will feel so bad if anything happens. On the bright side of that, I am trying to do everything in my own little power to prepare her and I, first by getting that gelding out. >> With the point of the udders.. she is a very confusing mare, that is the only thing that sets me off about it. Hopefully, if she is pregnant, she will produce a good size bag and udder to produce milk and all that good stuff for a foal. I can only hope anyway.



ImagineThat said:


> I don't have anything to add to the original questions... just thought I'd stop in and commend your attitude in this situation. Having just read a similar thread on a different forum, this was much more pleasant to read. I wish more people would be open minded and educate themselves like you are, rather than give a nasty know-it-all attitude to those trying to help.
> I hope your mare has an uncomplicated foaling if she is indeed pregnant.
> And of coarse we'll want pictures!


Thank you, I rather be educated then thing I know everything and have something go horribly wrong. Trust me, when my mom and I were first discussing her being pregnant possibly I wanted to cry because I hadn't done anything for her or the foal. If she is pregnant I will be sure to update that and also post pictures when it arrives.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I still fail to understand how you know about people's opinion of sweet feed and not that a young colt can breed. Your posts seem to show that you know quite a bit, and indeed that you bred before, and you recognize the signs of breeding. 

You know more complicated things than the simple things you don't know - this confuses me honestly.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Not me Alex. I know that there are people that know that sweet feed isn't good, but not that there yearling/two-year-olds wont breed each other. It really isn't all that uncommon.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> Not me Alex. I know that there are people that know that sweet feed isn't good, but not that there yearling/two-year-olds wont breed each other. It really isn't all that uncommon.


I think most people with basic knowledge know that a yearlings can breed. I think the problem is that people do not want to think about it so they pretend they do not know it is a fact.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It also falls along the same lines that a son wont breed his dam or a sire wont breed his daughter if they are in the same field. 

It happens. I don't think it is so much as people know they can breed, I think that the people that don't know per-say, but haven't' really done the research and go off of old books, such as the op did, that don't say that they can breed before a certain age. Like anything else in like, people can have a great wealth of information about on part of a subject and completely ignorant on another. Add in that some vets wont geld until 2-years-old but don't bother to tell a MO to remove the colt from the mare in order to keep her from getting bred and you end up with a whole 'nother can of worms.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I just got back from a very long visit of the vet....

The vet first did a palpation, she though she felt a large tumor on the left ovary but no foal. Then we moved onto an ultrasound just incase, what appeared to be a large tumor was actually the beginning of the heat cycle, the thing was about 30 mm and ready to burst I believe what the vet said. Though when she checked the uterus there is signs that there was a foal, it was enlarged but through the whole thing was all pus, leading the vet to believe there is probably no life if there was a foal. She also thought she seen the nose of a foal, though not connected to anything. I informed the vet I had felt a kick or two this morning, so now my mare is on antibotics until Monday, if she hasn't cleared up they have to put her on a medication that will kill anything and everything inside her and flush her out.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

That's a bizarre finding????? I would probably be looking for another vet....and one that specializes in repo work.

I think what you mean is that the vet found a follicle on her ovary.....sounds like she is coming into heat?.........30mm is not terribly large......my girl's follicles get as big as 50mm before releasing.

Pus in her uterus does not necessarily mean there was or is a foal. Mares can have and infected uterus with out any ill effects.

It will be interesting to find out exactly what is going on.

Super Nova


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

The vet we went to today was a vet I haven't used before.

The on set was that the uterus was larger then it normally is. We are supposed to be on the look out for her hocks being stained, if we see that we have to search for where ever something took place. It will be interesting to see what goes on from here out, if anything I've learned a huge lesson in the world of horses and the history lesson is still not over.

Yes, that is what she called it. She said it was practically ready to burst. So, if she was pregnant she probably terminated it about a week ago when we saw a clear discharge coming from her vulva.


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## Juna (Apr 4, 2010)

How could she be pregnant by a colt you sold a year ago (as has had no contact with your mare since then, ie, able to breed her.) then terminate the pregnancy a week ago and you don't have a very large dead fetus in your pasture? It all does not add up. IMO, she was never pregnant.

The discharge from her vulva a week ago was normal "mare in heat" yuckiness. The milk from her udder is hormones. The pocket of edema in her stomach is hormones. Her belly kicking/witchy behavior is hormones/mare in heat behavior. 

A mare's uterus is always bigger by ultrasound when they are in heat. And the pus your vet is seeing is mostly likely edema in the lining of the uterus which is the basic indication of a mare's heat cycle to any competent vet. I have ultra-sounded my own mares for years and I definitely have experience in this area. I would get a new vet ASAP.

I think your mare is fine. Probably ready to breed in the next day or so. Mare's follicles almost always get bigger than 30mm before ovulation. 

My post may seem harsh, but I don't mean it that way. Good luck with your mare! Just keep the colts away from her!


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## gjcst (Mar 19, 2011)

Juna said:


> How could she be pregnant by a colt you sold a year ago (as has had no contact with your mare since then, ie, able to breed her.) then terminate the pregnancy a week ago and you don't have a very large dead fetus in your pasture? It all does not add up. IMO, she was never pregnant.
> 
> The discharge from her vulva a week ago was normal "mare in heat" yuckiness. The milk from her udder is hormones. The pocket of edema in her stomach is hormones. Her belly kicking/witchy behavior is hormones/mare in heat behavior.
> 
> ...


Not harsh Juna, but very informative! Good post! Now, Ladybug, at least you can relax and take a breath!! Again....Kudos to you for wanting the best for your mare in what could have been a bad situation!! The only stupid quesiton is the one NOT asked!!


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## Tennille (Mar 20, 2011)

Well goodluck!


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## HUSAngel (Apr 18, 2010)

With all due respect, this is a fine example of why you should NOT breed your mare. Breeding a mare, raising a foal takes a HUGE amount of responsibility, which is obviously lacking in this situation. You don't know if she was with a stud? Believe me, yearling stud colts CAN breed a mare. Really, not trying to be rude, just my opinion.


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## sheezgottarythm (Mar 16, 2011)

In my Opinion HUS, that was fairly rude. She's already said she's bred before meaning she does know what it takes to breed her mare and care for the foal. You may not have read it properly, but the yearling colt was her own colt.

I find it hard to believe that everyone seems to think that if you are a horse person you are going to know a yearling colt can breed. This is not true. Most people I come into contact with that has had horses for many years don't even know this. In fact, I didn't even know this though I already keep my mini away from the other horses anyways so I never saw a problem but this should be used as way to learn, not a way to bash people.

If anything, this thread is a good learning experience for everyone here that reads over it.  I know that I've learned more from this than I would have trying to search online for some of these answers.


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## GreyRay (Jun 15, 2010)

How has she NOT been responsible? She got enough facts to convince her parents to get the mare to another vet. I think that makes her more responsible than her parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sheezgottarythm (Mar 16, 2011)

I agree with GreyRay.  

And, I feel like I should apologize. I felt I was a little harsh when I said that your comment was rude. I understand that everyone has their own views of things, I just felt like you didn't completely read the thread. Sorry if I came out as a bit too harsh.

And Ladybug, Still praying for Lady  Hope she gets better soon!


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## HUSAngel (Apr 18, 2010)

I did read the thread, along with the other thread that she WANTS to breed this mare, to a paint stud. I can understand the excitement of wanting a baby, and I commend her for having her mare checked. Yes, that is showing some responsibility, and yes, this is a great place to learn. 

I looked at the pictures, IMO, the mare is not pregnant, as the vet told her, which she still doesn't believe. She's not going to have a follicle and be pregnant. Mares that have had previous foals do sometimes have larger teats, that swell at times when they are in season. One of mine does the same thing. Too much green grass can add to the edema. I'm thinking she just has a hay belly, and is in season.

Please, Ladybug, do as you're doing, and watch your mare, take good care of her, keep her away from the studs, and make sure you know what you are putting her in pasture with. On that note, enjoy your mare. If you really want a baby that bad, don't breed her, especially not to the stallion that you pictured. He honestly would make a cute gelding. Go find yourself a cute weanling, and raise it up. There are so many out there, for CHEAP, that need a forever home. Trust me, it is cheaper to go buy a weanling than go through the whole breeding process. Good luck.


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## Juna (Apr 4, 2010)

Yeah that ^^^^


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I believe the second vet, though I didn't trust the first. At least I know now that she isn't pregnant, she may have been pregnant at some point within the last year but isn't now. I didn't know there was a stud in her pasture like Sheez said, I wasn't aware yearlings could breed, let alone with their own dam. She is on antibiotics to get rid of the pus and for as this year I doubt I'll breed her, next year I am moving down to Texas so not sure if I could even breed that year. So sounds as if you have nothing to worry about me breeding her. Though if within the next years after that I deside to breed her I will be sure to find a better staillion and even stop by to ask for people's thoughts of him.  Though as for getting a weanling... That would have to wait as well until I move, but thankfully I have her to work with and maybe we can start riding more then we have been after her pus clears up. Also it wasn't just a little pus, her whole uterus was filled packed with it.

On that note I would like to thank anyone and everyone that gave me enough information that could possibly have saved my mares life. I learned a lot on this one thread alone, including a few.. Edema, yearlings capibility of breeding, and a few others.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Wow this is interesting! lol. And just a note - I had no idea yearlings could (or WOULD) breed, especially to their own dams. My stepmom's mare had a colt by her side till he was 2 and he certainly never bred her. It's far from "common sense" in my opinion. I don't think Ladybug did anything wrong! PS, that's a good lookin' colt!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

A slight update, my mare finished her antibiotics yesterday, nothing has changed physically in the last week (like I've read happens) or have any stains on her hocks come up like the vet said to look for just incase she did foal dead or alive. Monday we are back to the vet to see if she clears up. I'm hoping for the best.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Good luck with everything!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks! I will need it with this old mare, I can't even take her outside the gate now without her struggling because she thinks she is going to the vet. What fun it will be when we are actually taking her. Apparently she doesn't like things being placed where they shouldn't go? I'll be sure to give another update on if she has cleared up or not Monday night.


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

When someone asked how can she be in foal can't remember how because the colt was sold a year ago. Weel Ladybug actually said 11 monthes ago.
And I know the fealing thinking your horse is in foal when it isn't, one of my shetlands last year had a false pregnacy (excuse the spelling) but for months I was convinced she was in foal her belly was getting bigger and her teats were different from all the other ponies I took me a couple of weeks to convince my mum but I finely did she asked a kind naighbour who had be breading shetland for like 15 years and she thought she was in foal at this point she already being fead as if she was in foal then she would start swishing her tail, kicking her belly and pawing the ground so I would stay up all night watching her as the blood test we got taken took over a week to get the results when we got them they said she wasn't infoal. She was just turning two at this point and she was kept in with her half brother of the same age until we got her at just over one and we knew it was perfectly possible for her to be in foal.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Exactly, I was hoping she was just playing a trick on me. Though if she hadn't I wouldn't have found out she had an infection. 

Oh and I never noticed that question. The colt was born April 2, 2009 and was sold in mid-April of 2010. That is how it is possible... Though it is all over with now hopefully.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well I've taken some people's advice on these forums. I have decided to try buy a grade mare that is in foal whose owners do not want her anymore instead of breeding my own grade mare, now the hard part is to see if no one else has bought her yet.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Thats good! Better to buy than to breed!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Thats good! Better to buy than to breed!


That is what I have learned, besides I don't want to put my mare through that. Maybe she will get enough interaction of foals through the other mare if I buy her.

Before I found this mare online near my town I was thinking about buying a weanling but unfortunatly there are none around here so this may be even better, I'll be giving two horses good care.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well Craigslist lies sometimes, the mare I was planning on getting was already sold. Though I have found another that was neglected then rescued, she is a registered APHA in foal to a registered black and white APHA as well. I'm really hoping this one goes through, the mare isn't sold yet but there is still things to be settled.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Well thats a good way to think of it! Any pics of the new mare?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well, my own mare went for a check-up with the vet. Her uterus is back to almost normal size though the infection still presents itself but not nearly as it was, that means another five days of antibiotics. During the ultrasound lots of follicles were found so the vet thinks there is a hormone inbalance which has also had her milking, she recieved a shot for that and another so she doesn't collic during it. The poor girl had to get drugged up to get an ultrasound because she kept trying to kick this nice vet. What fun was it to try and load her up drugged. xD She is hopefully getting better now. 

This girl:









... is hopefully going to be mine soon. Saturday at 1 I should be meeting her for the first time if she hasn't been bought. I've been told her name is Sickem(Not sure on spelling) Doc Olena. She is breed to a APHA sire though not sure on his name. Keep in mind this little lady was abused by her previous owners, staved and such. The owner I've been talking to says that she is due sometime in June or August but that was only a guess on her part.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Well thats good news!!


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Its very good news for me.  Hopefully I can start riding again.


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## momo3boys (Jul 7, 2010)

I hope it goes through for you! She looks like she will be a cute horse with some more weight on her.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

momo3boys said:


> I hope it goes through for you! She looks like she will be a cute horse with some more weight on her.


I hope so too! I think she would look loads better with more weight and a better, shiner coat on her. The woman who has her says she is shy around other horses which probably can't be helped, she is with 10 other horses and had to compete for food.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

When are you going to look at her?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Ray MacDonald said:


> When are you going to look at her?


Saturday afternoon. So far she is isn't sold yet, most people are going for other horses she has because they are for sure broke while this mare is a question if she is or not.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Shouldn't the owner know if she is broke?


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Not exactly.she wasn't the previous owner and has had this mare and 9 others fir three months


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm feeling pretty good about tomorrow when I go see the mare, the owner first messaged me saying that she can't handle it anymore because so many people were asking her about different horses and to contact this other person... I didn't answer it and thought, "Alright then... " Then she messaged me saying she was sorry, she had sent that to everyone and wanted to know if I was still going over. I feel singled out in a good way.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Well FINALLY she is almost back to her normal self, a lot less big of a stomach. I bathed her today, now she is nice and soft.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

She's gorgeous! And good news! Can't wait to see the new mare.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

*Sickem Doc Olena's foaling thread. o.o*

I deem this my new mare's foaling thread. The owner first thought she was only 5 months along, she is HUGE and that baby moves to the point where two people can be standing on both sides and see it move at the same time. So I say she is going to pop, the foal they thought was hers that was about 5 months old was a bay.. Makes no sense because she is a paint and the sire is a paint, the only one that was running around with her. 

It was dark by the time we got home, I'll post new ones tomorrow after I groom her.

Oh and the quality of living is just for tonight. She had to go into a small paddock for safety from my stubborn mare and her "boyfriend" of a gelding. Tomorrow we are fixing the fences that the gelding keeps getting out and putting a gate on the door so she can stay in there at night for foaling and afterward to keep the foal safe.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

*Sickem Doc Olena's "Lena" foaling thread.*

New thread for the new mare. 

Didn't mean to put her pictures on here. o.o


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/sickem-doc-olenas-lena-foaling-thread-82809/#post984237

:3 Tada, no worries, lots of pictures will come as soon as the foal is born but I would like to keep everyone informed on how she is doing.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I would love to be able to see her and her new foal!


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