# Why do you ride without a helmet?



## Northern

I've often wondered why the helmetless are so; do tell!


----------



## ThatNinjaHorse

I ride WITH a helmet because its a habit. Last time i rode shad i forgot to put it on, i couldnt be bothered to go back and get it. Felt weird though, having nothing on my head.

I dont have a problem with people riding without a helment, its their body, therfore their choice. (im talking adults here, kids on the otherhand i believe should always wear a helmet) 
You see top dressage riders without a helmet, just a top hat or whatever, no one complains about that, western riders in cowboy hats, akubras etc.. 
I dont really care if someones not wearing a helmet. 

This didnt really answer your question sorry..
I could kind of see where this is going and atm ive seen so much net bashing over people not wearing helmets lol


----------



## dedebird

i ride with helmet cause like thatninjahorse said its a habit lol one time i almost didn't wear it and i got yelled at by my instruter and she waz on the other side of the ranch i'm like  how is that possible... although my helmet is bright pink its hard to miss i know this dosen't anwser ur question either but this might people who don't where helmets don't wear either cause of outfits like a western thing and they want a cowboy hat or they trust their horse alot or they r just really dare devilish or confident lol thats wat i think


----------



## Gidji

I ride with my helmet 85% of the time. The other 15% is just because Im lazy or its an emergency. But I am interested why some people dont?


----------



## Mickey4793

My helmet saved my from a fractured skull one time, thats why :] I got a severe concussion WITH the helmet on because the force of impact on my head was so extreme, imagine without?


----------



## Cinnys Whinny

I don't usually, because it's habit and I don't even have one right now but plan to get one. I keep thinking I should get in the habit, but never have since I was a kid. When I learned to ride only hunters/jumpers wore helmets, or you wore one when you showed, and I didn't do either so I think that's where the habit came from.

Now when I wear one, I feel really confined, claustrophobic and HOT ha ha. And yes, I've been tossed through a wood rail fence and ended up in the hospital and yet it still doesn't make me wear one. I eventually want to try Cinny over fences though, so I'd better buy one and get used to it lol.


----------



## Allison Finch

It's all part of Dawin's plan of survival of the fittest (or helmeted).


----------



## equiniphile

^you mean Darwin? ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Spyder

I don't and wont and it is my choice.


----------



## Wallaby

Currently, I don't ride with a helmet most of the time because I'm dumb and I seem to enjoy mocking Murphy's Law.

It's actually mostly because I haven't fallen off of Lacey in 2 years, even back when she would try her hardest to get me off, so I'm starting to feel dangerously safe. However, whenever I ride on the road, on the trail, or when I go to camp and ride there, I always wear my helmet. There are too many trees/roots/asphalt just asking me to bash my head into them and I don't want to test Murphy THAT much. 

But yeah, it's basically cuz I'm dumb and evidently want to die. Hahaha

Also, I've fallen while wearing my helmet enough times that I'm pretty sure I really should get a new one. So, possibly if I was wearing my helmet it wouldn't do me much good...


----------



## farmpony84

Spyder said:


> I don't and wont and it is my choice.


But her carrots do!!!


----------



## sarahver

I wear a helmet ALWAYS as you never know, even on a quiet horse. Just like I ALWAYS wear a seatbelt, I guess I am the safety concious type.

However, a lady at the barn who is not much of a rider at all and who owns a green 4yo Arab (grrr, my OTHER pet hate, poor horses have no choice in who buys them hey?) does not wear a helmet, doesn't even own one. Well she rode her horse for the first time last night after he has been in a couple months training and doing spectacularly with the trainer. He had a little spook at something on the side of the arena like a green horse does, she reefed his mouth, he spooked more and she fell off and smacked her head on the wooden fence of the arena. She was OK, got up and was walking around, got on her husbands horse instead, still no helmet. WHAT WILL IT TAKE??? A TRIP TO HOSPITAL??? I agree with Allison, Charles Darwin would be ashamed of some members of the human race.


----------



## catskinner

Having ridden motorcycles, atvs, bikes, and horses I hate wearing helmets for anything. MI is helmet state, so I go to Ohio for street riding, my atv club members would never be caught without theirs, I'm like the sole outcast. I never wore one as a kid, (told to) just like the feeling of freedom, the wind, and some rebellion more than likely. I seem more in tune with my surroundings without one.


----------



## themacpack

Spyder said:


> I don't and wont and it is my choice.


This :wink:


----------



## Speed Racer

I wear one and have for years, but I'm only a Helmet Nazi concerning myself.

I won't dictate to others about safety, unless they're children. If they're adults, they already know all the arguments and have made up their own minds.

As long as it's not required by a particular group or ride, going helmetless is nothing more than personal choice. It's called 'acceptable risk'. Those who don't wear helmets have decided it's an acceptable risk to ride without one.

Save me from people who want to dictate how we should or shouldn't do something, for no other reason than because they _say so_. When they become Despotic Ruler of the World, they can tell others what to do. Until then, meh.


----------



## gypsygirl

except for kids, i dont care if others choose not to wear a helmet, but i think its selfish not too. think of you family and what they will have to go through if you die or become a vegtable.

that being said i pretty much always wear my helmet. on the rare occasion i dont i feel guilty. i was in a bad accident a few years ago & would certainly have died if not for my helmet.


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

Meh, I keep thinking about getting a helmet, but I hate wearing them. I feel confined, hot, sweaty, and bulky. I wonder what's the point in spending the $150 if I'm not going to wear it everytime? 

When I was in riding lessons I wore them and for awhile as a teenager/child my parents insisted on a helmet. I kind of gradually stopped wearing mine and now they sit in the dusty closet.


----------



## love longears

When I was growing up, helmets were not mandatory. We did all kinds of crazy stuff on horseback and luckily, although we did get hurt, none of us ever got a head injury. Now that I am a mom, I am glad that helmets are mandatory for kids under 18. It makes me shiver to think of my daughter doing the kinds of things I did on horseback with out a helmet. She must wear a helmet, but I don't because I never have, and honestly, I would feel ridiculous in one. And, as much as I hate to say this, whenever I see an adult riding in a helmet, I think to myself how dorky they look. I know that is bad. If you think about it, wearing a helmet while riding a horse is like wearing a seatbelt in a car. And I always wear my seatbelt. I feel naked without it. Maybe I should listen to my own opinions huh?? :wink:


----------



## coelh102

I will always wear a helmet, last June if I didn't wear my helmet, I would be dead. I fell off my 20yr old, dead quiet TB who got spooked and took off, I didn't. I went flying landed head first in the ground, broke my nose with the helmet, snapped the helmet in two and broke 2 ribs and punctured my kidney. Even worse, I pinched a nerve in the back of my neck and was paralyzed from the waist down. The docs say if it wasn't for the helmet absorbing the shock of the fall and breaking in half, i wouldve broken my neck, No IFs,ANDs, or BUTs about it. I will NEVER ride without a helmet in my life, EVER. I don't want to get hurt and it can happen to anyone young or old. I didn't even know my old TB could move faster than a trot!! lol guess I found out the hard way. 

But hey, don't wear a helmet, maybe you will never get that chance to say, Maybe I shoulda wore one cuz u may be just 6 feet under. Sorry to be harsh but this is something I am 100% for wearing.


----------



## Rule of Reason

themacpack said:


> This :wink:


The question is WHY, though? Same reason as the others?


----------



## Rule of Reason

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Meh, I keep thinking about getting a helmet, but I hate wearing them. I feel confined, hot, sweaty, and bulky. I wonder what's the point in spending the $150 if I'm not going to wear it everytime?
> 
> When I was in riding lessons I wore them and for awhile as a teenager/child my parents insisted on a helmet. I kind of gradually stopped wearing mine and now they sit in the dusty closet.


You can get an approved helmet for under $50. The point of wearing it is to prevent brain injury. People with brain injuries are a lifelong burden to their families, the economy, and themselves. 

Spyder and Mac, I respect you, but disagree strongly on this issue.


----------



## StormyBlues

My mom got lucky. She fell and borne parts of her back on my quiet bombproof mare. She didn't wear a helmet and had a cuncussion and was knocked dead out. It could have been horribly worse. Horses are WILD animals. They have instincts that can not and will never be trained out of them. This doesn't deal with horses but the guy that got mauled by his tiger in a show? Or the lady that got attacked by her chimp. They thought they were safe and that's what happened, so why not protect myself? Now I will admit I do jump on Blue bareback without a helmet but I won't do anything stupid. And I really should wear a helmet then. 

Just my 2 cents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Rule of Reason said:


> You can get an approved helmet for under $50.


Absolutely correct.

I usually buy Aegis made by DevonAire, and they run anywhere from $45 to $80, depending on the type.

Some of the Troxels are even less expensive.

As long as they're ASTM/SEI approved, they work just as well as the higher priced models.


----------



## sarahver

Speed Racer said:


> Save me from people who want to dictate how we should or shouldn't do something, for no other reason than because they _say so_. When they become Despotic Ruler of the World, they can tell others what to do. Until then, meh.


Just to clarify - I never made any comment to the woman that fell off about the fact that a helmet may help prevent her skull from becoming any thicker than it already is. I also have not made any comments to her about the fact that her young children also don't wear helmets as they are not my children and I know it isn't my place.

However, I do reserve the right to be silently disgusted by her stupid decisions, especially concerning the safety of her kids.


----------



## Speed Racer

sarahver said:


> However, I do reserve the right to be silently disgusted by her stupid decisions, especially concerning the safety of her kids.


If she's at a public facility I'm surprised they don't have a helmet rule for anyone under 18.

Private property is another matter altogether. People can do what they want on their own land.

My post was intended merely to point out that while I don't agree with not wearing a helmet, it's not my place to badger or lecture people about it.

We have more than enough laws in place to try and keep people safe from themselves, and I for one think that's frightening. 

I just don't like Big Brother dictating my every move.


----------



## Skipsfirstspike

I wear a helmet because I am a mom. I am more important now than I used to be. I have to protect myself for them. What would happen to my kids if I got severely hurt or worse?
Before my kids were born, I Never wore one. I also rode harder, faster, and took a lot more risks.


----------



## MissH

Rule of Reason said:


> You can get an approved helmet for under $50. The point of wearing it is to prevent brain injury. People with brain injuries are a lifelong burden to their families, the economy, and themselves.
> 
> Spyder and Mac, I respect you, but disagree strongly on this issue.


Agree.


----------



## Jessabel

I ride with a helmet more often than not. I NEVER jump without one. But I do sometimes not wear it because it's hot and itchy and annoying. When I'm trail riding I usually don't wear one.


----------



## ridergirl23

I love my helmet! I don't really know what people are talking about when they say it's hot, or sweaty or uncomfortable, just save up some money, and buy a nice one, mine fits me like a glove has vents and stuff, heck, I forget to take my helmet off when I get off! It hasn't saved my life yet or anything, but it has saved me from some wicked headaches! LOL if your reason is they're uncomfortable, save up, and buy a nice one that you love, nowadays they have all different styles! Most even look very pretty and proffessional! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## irydehorses4lyfe

Add me to the 'never will go without a helmet crowd.' After one fall and smacking the back of my head into round pen panels, I'm convinced that I'd rather have something on my head, however annoying it may be at times, to save my life.
And Rule of Reason and Speed Racer have it correct. You can get Troxel(and other brands I'm sure) helmets for under $50. I got my Troxel schooling helmet for $40, and it's got ventilation, and sizing adjustments. =)


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

Anyone have some links to these cheaper helmets? I went to the tack store and the one that fit me was $150. Especially one that is vented, lower profile, and more comfortable. I have the ones from 15 yrs ago that I used in lessons, but those are huge, bulky, black velvet ones. 

I've been having a lot of arguments with myself lately about wearing a helmet. Everyone who wears a helmet is basically repeating them.


----------



## Speed Racer

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Anyone have some links to these cheaper helmets?


Lami-Cell Low Profile Schooling Helmet - Dover Saddlery.

Charlotte's eCatalog: Troxel Spirit

http://www.legacytack.com/p/11081/Aegis Aspen Helmet.html

Aegis™ Ussepa Riding Helmet - Dover Saddlery.

The last helmet is the type I have.


----------



## CloudsMystique

Do any of you wear helmets in your car? You're MUCH more likely to suffer a head injury in a car than on a horse.


Just saying...


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

Isn't that what seatbelts are for? 

Seriously the ONE time I didn't wear my seatbelt in the last 10 years I got in a car accident, smashed my face on the dashboard, bounced off of that into the windsheild hard enough to crack it.

Thanks SR I'll check those out. At least if I have one on hand I can start getting into the habit of wearing one. 

Side question. Anyone wear body protectors? Besides the eventers. My dad is saying that he wants my niece to wear a body protector when she starts riding because of the spinal injuries that are prevalent among riders.


----------



## kmacdougall

I wear a helmet because quite frankly, after riding for eleven years, the percentage of people I know well that have been in near death accidents on horseback is astronomical.

I want to graduate from university. I want to get my masters degree. I want to get married. I want to build a house. I want to grow old. These are things I cannot do if my parents have to bury me after a horse related accident. These are things that would be come immense challenges or even impossibilities if I must spend the rest of my days confined to a hospital bed or wheelchair because of one stupid decision to ride without a helmet.


----------



## farmpony84

CloudsMystique said:


> Do any of you wear helmets in your car? You're MUCH more likely to suffer a head injury in a car than on a horse.
> 
> 
> Just saying...


 
Statements like this never make sense to me...:-( It doesn't even go with the original question, which is, Do you wear a helmet?

In a car, you wear a seatbelt. On a horse, bicycle, or motorcyle, skateboard, etc. You wear a helmet.

Some sports even have knee pads elbow pads etc. The equipment is there to help prevent injury. 

It is not always mandatory, it's a choice. My only issue with it is that IN MY OPINION, for people under the age of 18, safety equipment should be the law... BUT THAT IS MY OPINION....

To answer the question, I wear my helmet always. The only time I don't wear it is on show days when I have my western hat on, but even then, in warm up I have my helmet on...


----------



## CloudsMystique

Seatbelts protect your head from certain things, but not others. What if you flip and your head hits the roof? What if your car is so smashed that the roof hits YOU? What if the thing you hit (tree, signpost, other vehicle) comes flying through your windshield?


----------



## ridergirl23

CloudsMystique said:


> Do any of you wear helmets in your car? You're MUCH more likely to suffer a head injury in a car than on a horse.
> 
> 
> Just saying...


 well actually..... i just got my learners licence and ive been driving for a while... and everytime i get into my car i feel like i should have a helmet on.... lol. 

some people at a university (cant remember which one...) did a survey and MOST of the riders with injurys, or brain damage, we riding trained experienced horses, on a calm sunny day without helmets...just thought that as interesting :lol:


----------



## Speed Racer

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Thanks SR I'll check those out. At least if I have one on hand I can start getting into the habit of wearing one.


I really like that first one. I may have to bite the bullet and get it for myself. I usually only buy 'unnecessary' items for the horses! 

I always try to make sure I have a backup helmet, and I'm down to one right now.

Also, don't forget the rule of thumb for replacing helmets is after 5 years or a fall, whichever comes first. All helmets come with a sticker showing their manufacture date.


----------



## CloudsMystique

farmpony84 said:


> Statements like this never make sense to me...:-( It doesn't even go with the original question, which is, Do you wear a helmet?
> 
> In a car, you wear a seatbelt. On a horse, bicycle, or motorcyle, skateboard, etc. You wear a helmet.
> 
> Some sports even have knee pads elbow pads etc. The equipment is there to help prevent injury.
> 
> It is not always mandatory, it's a choice. My only issue with it is that IN MY OPINION, for people under the age of 18, safety equipment should be the law... BUT THAT IS MY OPINION....
> 
> To answer the question, I wear my helmet always. The only time I don't wear it is on show days when I have my western hat on, but even then, in warm up I have my helmet on...



Actually, the original question was "Why do you ride *without *a helmet?"

You didn't exactly answer that question... in fact, very few people have. I was trying to point out that the reason why some people don't ride with a helmet might be the same reason why people don't drive cars with a helmet... which answers the original question better than you have.


----------



## equiniphile

CM, If your car flips and ur head hits the roof, don't quote me on this, but I don't think even the most approved SEI helmet could protect you from sustaining SOME afteraffects
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CloudsMystique

equiniphile said:


> If your car flips and ur head hits the roof, don't quote me on this, but I don't think even the most approved SEI helmet could protect you from sustaining SOME afteraffects
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So the logic is that since the helmet can't prevent *some * unavoidable injuries, you don't need it?

That sounds like the Parelli rep. saying it's okay to ride without a helmet because sometimes people ride with them and still get hurt, haha.


----------



## speedy da fish

i have never got on a horse, to ride, without a helmet


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

What if my horse bolts into the road and we get smashed by a car? What if he flips over and breaks my back? What if? What it? 

I see what you're saying.... helmets don't take away all risk. It just decreases your chances of being severly injured. Just like proper groundwork and training *should* decrease the risk of your horse killing/maiming you. 

It's risk management like some of the others said. You decide what your acceptable limit of risk is. For me and some of the others, its an acceptable risk to ride without a helmet. For some of you it isn't. I find that my ideas about helmets are changing as I get older, but I still haven't taken that final step.


----------



## CloudsMystique

MN Tigerstripes said:


> What if my horse bolts into the road and we get smashed by a car? What if he flips over and breaks my back? What if? What it?
> 
> I see what you're saying.... helmets don't take away all risk. It just decreases your chances of being severly injured. Just like proper groundwork and training *should* decrease the risk of your horse killing/maiming you.
> 
> It's risk management like some of the others said. You decide what your acceptable limit of risk is. For me and some of the others, its an acceptable risk to ride without a helmet. For some of you it isn't. I find that my ideas about helmets are changing as I get older, but I still haven't taken that final step.


Exactly.


----------



## ridergirl23

CloudsMystique said:


> Seatbelts protect your head from certain things, but not others. What if you flip and your head hits the roof? What if your car is so smashed that the roof hits YOU? What if the thing you hit (tree, signpost, other vehicle) comes flying through your windshield?


 What if you fall off your horse onto your head? 


theres accidents where a helmet can save your life, theres accidents where a seatbelt saves your life, people desined those safety features BECAUSE MOST OF THE DEATHS CAN BE PREVENTED WITH THOSE THINGS. 
people didnt just say: OH! lets just put a strp across a persons bodyin a car for safety. NO, they were thought out, and scientests thought about it and tested it and finally the conclusion was that seatbelts wer the most effective safety device for a car accident, same with a helmet with a hrose accident.


----------



## equiniphile

CloudsMystique said:


> So the logic is that since the helmet can't prevent *some * unavoidable injuries, you don't need it?
> 
> That sounds like the Parelli rep. saying it's okay to ride without a helmet because sometimes people ride with them and still get hurt, haha.


No no no. I meant that we don't wear helmets in the car because of what I said earlier. I alwaaayyysss ride my horse in a helmet though
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

Speed Racer said:


> I really like that first one. I may have to bite the bullet and get it for myself. I usually only buy 'unnecessary' items for the horses!
> 
> I always try to make sure I have a backup helmet, and I'm down to one right now.
> 
> Also, don't forget the rule of thumb for replacing helmets is after 5 years or a fall, whichever comes first. All helmets come with a sticker showing their manufacture date.


 
So I should just throw the 15 yr old ones away?? That's going to kill my mother. :lol:

Someone told me the Spirits were children's helmets. This is the one they showed me:

Troxel Cheyenne Rowdy Helmet - The Ultimate Western Helmet - Troxel Equestrian Helmets

I couldn't stomach the price tag, especially since I'm not completely sure I'd wear it all the time. Of course, paying that much might be an added impetous to wear it.....


----------



## roro

It isn't really accurate to compare wearing helmets in a car to wearing helmets when riding. Air bags and seat belts are there to prevent serious head injuries. Horses don't have air bags or seat belts, so helmets are more so recommended. The fact that there are no helmet laws for passenger cars(that I know of at least) while many barns have helmets required at least for minors speaks to this.


----------



## equiniphile

Thank you roro, that's what I was trying to say
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jamesqf

I see a lot of you wear helmets when riding horses because it reduces your chance of injuries. So let me ask the obvious question: how come you ride horses at all, when not riding would reduce your chance of a riding related injury to zero?

Now apply your answer to the original question


----------



## Speed Racer

Yes ma'am, those 15 y/o helmets are completely useless at this point in time. 

Doesn't matter how much you pay for a helmet, the materials all deteriorate within 5 years and there's no safety value left.

That's a very nice helmet, but you're paying for the leather and the 'sharpness' factor, nothing else.

No, the Spirit helmets aren't for children. Whoever told you that just wanted to sell you a more expensive helmet! :lol:


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

Because even knowing how risky riding a horse is they still want to do it, so they're reducing the risk to an acceptable level. There are people who love horses that never ride because they can't reduce the risk enough. 

I know people who own minis for that very reason.


SR - Thankfully I didn't actually have my money with me! I might have bought it anyways.

That's my rule with horsie things. No money (over $20) for the first look. I check it out, go home and think about it for a week or two. If I still really want/need it THEN I go back with money to buy it. 

I think the local tack/farm places probably hate me.


----------



## equiniphile

James, IMO that's like asking why we don't spend our days holed up in bomb shelters so there's no risk we'll get hurt. We ride horses for whatever individual reason we like. We know it's dangerous, we know there's risks, so we minimize those risks by wearing helmets and proper riding equipment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CloudsMystique

equiniphile said:


> No no no. I meant that we don't wear helmets in the car because of what I said earlier. I alwaaayyysss ride my horse in a helmet though
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, okay, I see : ]






roro said:


> It isn't really accurate to compare wearing helmets in a car to wearing helmets when riding. Air bags and seat belts are there to prevent serious head injuries. Horses don't have air bags or seat belts, so helmets are more so recommended. The fact that there are no helmet laws for passenger cars(that I know of at least) while many barns have helmets required at least for minors speaks to this.


It's true that there are other safety features in a car, but if you factor those in you have to also factor in the fact that a car is MUCH more dangerous than a horse.

If airbags, seatbelts, etc. actually did the job, car accidents wouldn't be the number one killer of teenagers. Plenty of them were wearing their seatbelts. You can't say that a helmet wouldn't help. I think there's no law in place because the law enforcement knows people would hate it and disregard it. It would be unrealistic.

The point I was trying to make is that maybe those of you who are so adamant about wearing a helmet while riding (but don't wear it in a car) are doing it for the same reason as those of you who don't wear one while riding. I'm saying the thought process behind it might be similar - not that they are exactly equivalent in terms of importance.



MN Tigerstripes described it well... Helmets don't take away all risk. Neither do seatbelts, or airbags, or training a horse well. It just depends on where you want to draw the line. You could walk around in bombproof suit your entire life and say that everyone who doesn't is being eliminated by natural selection. That'd be where your line was drawn.

You could also stop riding and start driving horses... or refuse to ride anything but your 29-year-old Quarter Horse gelding.

I *always *wear my seatbelt in my car, but I never wear a helmet on a horse. That's my opinion, and that's where I drew my line. What makes some of you think you're entitled to draw the line for everybody else?


----------



## Delfina

I've got a Troxel Sierra in black. I honestly forget I have it on because it's lightweight, ventilated and comfortable and it was around $100. I figure that I have a $100 ER copay, so hopefully I'll have spent the same amount but my $$$ will have gone to a retail establishment and not the ER.

Troxel Sierra Helmet - Western Performance Helmet - Troxel Equestrian Helmets


----------



## speedy da fish

jamesqf said:


> I see a lot of you wear helmets when riding horses because it reduces your chance of injuries. So let me ask the obvious question: how come you ride horses at all, when not riding would reduce your chance of a riding related injury to zero?
> 
> Now apply your answer to the original question


1. because we enjoy it , why do you ride jamesqf?
2. because competitions (english) will turn you away without one, in fact they will turn you away if you are not correctly dressed, including unaffiliated, they dont want to get sued lol!
3. because then we may as well wear a helmet ALL the time, just incase  you never know what could fall from the sky 



equiniphile said:


> James, IMO that's like asking why we don't spend our days holed up in bomb shelters so there's no risk we'll get hurt. We ride horses for whatever individual reason we like. We know it's dangerous, we know there's risks, so we minimize those risks by wearing helmets and proper riding equipment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


exactly


----------



## Speed Racer

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I think the local tack/farm places probably hate me.


Ah, but that's because you're not impulse buying! They count on us crazy horse people to go nutz when we get in a tack shop, and we usually do. :wink:

I've often been found drooling over some saddle, bridle, or riding boots that I don't really need, but MUST HAVE because it's right there in front of me!!!! :lol:


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

Everytime I go in with money it's just burning a hole in my pocket. I bought freaking braiding bands once (and almost twice)! I'm a trail rider who NEVER braids her horse's hair. I don't even know what I was thinking. 

Now I just control it by not ever having money with me unless I already know what I'm getting. Of course, I still spend 30 minutes walking around like an idiot drooling over stuff I'll never use. Ah well, I'm a horse person I can't help it!


----------



## Speed Racer

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Ah well, I'm a horse person I can't help it!


And that, my dear, is why I do the majority of my horse shopping on-line. :wink:

I know I'm an addict, and I can always make myself get off the computer, but I can't always tell myself 'no' if I'm right there touching something!


----------



## xdrybonesxvalleyx

Just to put my two cents in, I think most people think that don't ride with a helmet think that an injury is the sort of thing that isn't going to happen to them.

To something I read in this thread earlier, I just /need/ to say that helmets nowadays can be very stylish.

When I had my recent fall I had a bit of an awakening, realizing the dents in my helmet in the concrete could have easily made me mentally handicapped.

Nobody here is trying to change people's opinions. Everyone gambles with their life as they like. We're just trying to find out exactly why someone would put their life on the line like that.


----------



## IslandWave

Up until I was 18 I always rode with a helmet because it's a rule at my barn. Now I only ride without one when I forget it/don't have it with me, which is very rarely. I feel naked without my helmet since I'm so used to it and I don't find myself getting overly hot or uncomfortable with it on. But a good fit is a must!


----------



## StormyBlues

I also wear one because I have too many people that love and depend on me. My best friends, my northers, my mom and dad, my grandparents. They want to see me graduate high school, get a job, get married. And what will your horses do when you're in the hospital? Unless you board your horse, they rely on you for everything. Why would I ever want to abandon them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JustDressageIt

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I couldn't stomach the price tag, especially since I'm not completely sure I'd wear it all the time. Of course, paying that much might be an added impetous to wear it.....


I would just like to point out that there are helmets made for almost every occasion and pricetag nowadays. One of the more affordable helmets (where price hasn't sacrificed safety) out there right now is the Tipperary Sportage. It's extremely well ventillated as well, and is one of the lightest out there, I'm sure. It also comes in a variety of colors. Super duper comfortable helmet. 
Phoenix Performance Products


I bought myself a fairly expensive helmet, and because I spent so much on it, and it looks good on (I know, :shock I really can't convince myself that there's any reason NOT to wear it.


----------



## horseluver2435

I've only ridden without a helmet once. It was when I was visiting my cousins up north (the UP), and they wanted me to ride the mustang that was boarded at their house. I started to put my helmet on, and they made me feel dumb about it, so to prove that I wasn't 'lame', I rode without one. The second I stepped onto the trail, I regretted it. I didn't fall, had a decent ride, but I was so far out of my comfort zone that I never wanted to do it again. 

As to why people ride without them, I think everyone has a different reason. I know how hard it can be when the people around you aren't being safe to think, "They're not being safe, but they aren't getting hurt, so what's wrong with me doing it?" It's also really easy to be pulled into the whole "That person had an accident, but it'll never happen to me" scheme. And then again, some people just dislike helmets. 

At the barn I board at, if you are under 18, you must be wearing a helmet. If the lesson kids can't afford to buy one of their own (sometimes $50 is too much for those who ride only once a week) the barn has them in all shapes and sizes for you to use, and the majority are adjustable. 

Just my $0.02.


----------



## riccil0ve

I wore one at the barn I used to work at, and the school program that had horses. And when I was a kid on my uncle's horse. I've done lots of falling, never once hit my head. Screwed my back up pretty good. **** good, actually. But never once hit my head. The scratches on my helmet are from me dropping it, lol.

That being said. I don't wear one now. I have never fallen off my horse. NO ONE has ever fallen off my horse except my little sister how just, fell. But that was all. In her whole 18 years of life. My horse has also never once done anything that could make someone fall off [besides having a bouncy, rough trot and big canter]. I ride in the pasture, some trails, down the road to the coffee stand helmetless.

When I start breaking Gracie, I'll wear a helmet, because I DON'T know what she'll do, whereas I know Ricci better than she knows herself, she's never done anything or reacted to anything I didn't already know would happen or cause a reaction. But Gracie... she'll either take everthing like she's done it all, or she'll give me the fight of a lifetime. I'd rather be safe than sorry in that case.

However, I took vaulting lessons for a while. I know how to fall and land on my feet. Things happen, yes, but I'm really, really good at landing on my feet. I was also taught how to fall, which is a lot easier than you'd think to apply mid-fall. Most people don't have that training, and a lot of people just splat.

Also, I think they look ridiculous, and it gives me unattractive helmet hair.


----------



## JekkaLynn

Lol, I learned to fall while riding a tiny little 12 hand pony. Tuck and roll Baby! I've never hit my head when falling and the only scratch on my helmet came from walking a horse through a door and he threw his head up, my head was on his neck and hit the door frame. I would have been hurt badly if i hadn't worn my helmet. I wear a helmet unless I'm just riding bareback on grass or If someone on ea wilder horse or with less experience is riding with me and doesn't have one I make them wear mine. I have only been thrown 3 or 4 times in 7 years of riding green broke horses and never got hurt because I always tucked and rolled. I started riding on green broke ponies and moved up to a half trained thoroughbred X then finally after a few months started taking lessons at a barn and riding trained horses.


----------



## ptvintage

I used to ride my old quarter horse gelding without a helmet, only because the people I rode with alot at the time made me feel like a square for riding with a helmet. I wanted to be cool!

But honestly, because of the chance that wearing the helmet will save my life, I'll wear it. It isn't hot, I don't find it uncomfortable, and I think helmets look pretty good. I wear it every time I ride.

Also, the comparing cars to horses is absurd. Cars are designed with safety features, and you can choose which car to buy depending on the safety features. Horses are not manufactured, they are animals and can be unpredictable. 

Of course I completely agree with it being a personal choice. No one should be forced to ride with a helmet, unless it's a parent forcing a child, or a barn forcing under 18. But I think it's the smart thing to do, and I think it's silly not to wear one. I applaud all who wear one, everyone who loves you appreciates the concern you show for your own well being.


----------



## MaggiStar

I dont get why wearing a helmet on a horse is being compared to driving a car......

I always wear my helmet i honestly would be a nervous wreck without one just because a few of my horses are.....unpredictable(but then all horses are)
Iv seen riding school ponies spook, trip,shy etc and you could easily fall and hit your head off one of them it only takes one time for you to be hospitalised i just dont see why id take the risk.


My cousin however rides anything with no helmet and she could ride her whole life like that but WHAT IF.........ariund the corner a car back fired or someone blew a horn???

I would only ever wear my body protector at shows however never at home i just find it to hot i should get into the habit though!!


----------



## HooverH

I never have worn a helmet. Biking, I think my parents made me wear one when I was little, but I don't even own one that fits anymore. 

Why? I hate them. And please don't give me that "oh, they're so comfy, you don't even know they're there!" Yeah. I know. I feel like they impair my side vision and hearing. I don't even particularly like to ride with a ballcap on, because of the vision thing. I also don't drive a car with a hat on for the same reason. 

I've only been required to wear a helmet once, and could barely concentrate to ride, I felt so...confined. Horses have panoramic vision, and I want as much of that as I can have, to see what my boy sees.

Edit: I forgot to mention, I ride Western with bucking rolls and a fairly tight seat. I've been taught to ride a small buck or a spook. I feel pretty confident I'm not leaving that saddle easily.


----------



## xxBarry Godden

In Britain, it is rare to see a rider who is not wearing a riding hat whilst seated on a horse. What is more, it is almost universally frowned upon by the riding fraternity to ride hatless. In most riding scenarios it is already mandatory to wear a protective hat which reduces (but does not eliminate) the risk of brain damage. Likewise a back protector reduces dramatically the risk of spinal damage. In many British competitions it is now compulsory to wear both items of safety equipment and sensibly so. 

All horse riders fall off at some time or another. Mostly the rider brushes him/her self down and gets back on. However from time to time there is a serious accident during which the rider is injured. For the rider who dies there is no problem, somebody else clears up the mess. However the rider who is merely injured may be left with brain damage or a fractured spine. Brain damage can affect any or every function of the body. A fractured spine leaves the victim paralysed perhaps lying flat on the back or permanently confined to a wheel chair. Ask yourself how you would wash yourself. Ask yourself how you could live without the ability to speak. Better still ask your own doctor about the impact of brain damage. Personally I can live with a broken arm or leg or hand; I don’t want to live with a broken head or a broken back.

Modern riding hats are nowadays not uncomfortable to wear. Likewise body protectors are cumbersome but they are becoming less so. Riders should ideally own both articles of equipment which are not nowadays that expensive. If you want to ride horses take simple precautions to protect yourself from the hazards which surround you.

As a young man I loved to gallop along feeling the wind in my hair. Nowadays I am not tempted to ride without my hat. Certainly I never want to find myself in a wheel chair being spoon fed by my wife knowing only too well that what goes in must come out.

Do yourself a big favour, don’t take risks, take care. Wear a riding hat (and a spine protector).

Barry G


----------



## AlmostThere

xdrybonesxvalleyx said:


> Nobody here is trying to change people's opinions. Everyone gambles with their life as they like. We're just trying to find out exactly why someone would put their life on the line like that.


Many people on this thread *are* trying to change the opinion of the people who ride without helmets. Either that, or they are busy pointing out how stupid and deserving of death we are (note the Darwin comments :wink.

When I learned to ride *no none I rode with wore helmets*. I developed my habits over twenty-five years ago.

People are much more overprotective now. And private facilities that require helmets are covering their butts to keep from getting sued.


----------



## jamesqf

equiniphile said:


> James, IMO that's like asking why we don't spend our days holed up in bomb shelters so there's no risk we'll get hurt. We ride horses for whatever individual reason we like. We know it's dangerous, we know there's risks, so we minimize those risks by wearing helmets and proper riding equipment.


Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. There is some level of risk that you are willing to accept in exchange for the pleasures of horse riding. Other people have different levels: some ride without helmets, others don't ride at all. The non-riders probably look at you the same way you look at people who ride without helmets. So why the criticism of people whose values differ from yours?

It's not just horses: I hear similar things from people about almost everything I enjoy doing. Go hiking by myself: "But isn't that dangerous, aren't you afraid of the bears/mountain lions/boojums"? Ride a bike: "Oh, but I'd be so scared of the traffic!". Fly small planes, drive small cars, climb mountains... Doesn't matter what I do, there are always a bunch of naysayers claiming it's too dangerous.

Though I must say their numbers are starting to thin a bit, as their couch potato lifestyle and obesity-related diseases start to take their toll


----------



## roro

AlmostThere said:


> And private facilities that require helmets are covering their butts to keep from getting sued.


There's nothing wrong with that, is there? If I owned a private facility I would require helmets partially for that reason (along with a release form of course).


----------



## xLaurenOscarx

I always wear my helmet Its a habit and I wouldnt dream of getting on Oscar w/out it or my body protector! They both saved me from serious injuries a few weeks back when I got bad concussion and broke my hat. I also couldnt move my legs for a bit after I fell.


----------



## Indyhorse

My son never rides without a helmet, and I'm very strict on that. He also wears a helmet on his bicycle.

This being said, I'm also a hypocrite on this level. I never wore a helmet while learning to ride - horses or bikes. I never wear a helmet now. I have no good excuse other than habit. That and a severe hat aversion of any kind - I can't even wear a baseball cap comfortably, or a knitted hat in winter - I'll prefer to let my head freeze. When I had to wear a hat for showing in my younger days (a_ hat_, at that time helmets were NOT required) it would go on the second before I entered the ring and was whipped off the second I left it. I just can't stand the feel of hats. Stupid reason? Sure. But it's my reason and my choice.


----------



## ptvintage

jamesqf said:


> Which is exactly the point I was trying to make. There is some level of risk that you are willing to accept in exchange for the pleasures of horse riding. Other people have different levels: some ride without helmets, others don't ride at all. The non-riders probably look at you the same way you look at people who ride without helmets. So why the criticism of people whose values differ from yours?
> 
> It's not just horses: I hear similar things from people about almost everything I enjoy doing. Go hiking by myself: "But isn't that dangerous, aren't you afraid of the bears/mountain lions/boojums"? Ride a bike: "Oh, but I'd be so scared of the traffic!". Fly small planes, drive small cars, climb mountains... Doesn't matter what I do, there are always a bunch of naysayers claiming it's too dangerous.
> 
> Though I must say their numbers are starting to thin a bit, as their couch potato lifestyle and obesity-related diseases start to take their toll


I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. I could walk out my door and be murdered tonight. I don't have to be doing anything other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

Horseback riding is something I enjoy, and I am willing to take the risk of being hurt to do it. However, if something as minor as putting a helmet on my head could save my life, I will do it.


----------



## kmacdougall

Might I add, thank you for Barry for yet another wonderfully written post.


----------



## wild_spot

> I *always *wear my seatbelt in my car, but I never wear a helmet on a horse. That's my opinion, and that's where I drew my line. What makes some of you think you're entitled to draw the line for everybody else?


I haven't seen anyone attempting to 'draw the line' for anybody else. I happen to think people who ride without helmets are foolish and disregarding not only their safety but the consequences for their family if they happen to be severely injured. But I won't dictate to anyone that they have to wear a helmet unless they are on my horse.

There is a difference between expressing your opinion of someone who does or doesn't wear helmets, and saying they HAVE to wear helmets just because.




> However, I took vaulting lessons for a while. I know how to fall and land on my feet.


Be very wary of this Ricci - My best friend used to always land on her feet. Then one night she did the same, but his the ground at the wrong angle, and broke her ankle severely. She couldn't walk or ride for six months.

I never really land on my feet but I know how to fall and have never severely injured myself falling, and I have fallen many, many times.


----------



## jamesqf

ptvintage;640235I could walk out my door and be murdered tonight.[/QUOTE said:


> OK, so do you wear body armor and carry a .357 when you go out for a walk in the evening?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, if something as minor as putting a helmet on my head...
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's because to you wearing a helmet, or even a hat, IS a minor thing. To me, it's not. Like Indyhorse, I dislike having to wear anything on my head, so I'd be just as reluctant to wear a cowboy hat, or an English-style derby or top hat for dressage.
Click to expand...


----------



## StormyBlues

I am sitting in my car right now, looking at my event horse and my show jumper, and I would again like to state - if not wear the helmet for you or your family, think about what would happen to your horses. Where would they go? Would you aprove? I wouldn't aprove of anywhere but here, and I could never abandon my babies.

Barry, once again a lovly post  your wording is impecable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## roro

*parental glare*

You aren't texting and driving, ARE YOU?


----------



## Indyhorse

roro said:


> *parental glare*
> 
> you aren't texting and driving, are you?



*rotf*


----------



## StormyBlues

roro said:


> *parental glare*
> 
> You aren't texting and driving, ARE YOU?


 no silly goose. Just sitting in my car at the barn after I threw evening feed. I'd never text and drive, it's illegal here and just not safe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## yukontanya

I use a helmet when I am near rocks, cements, in a arena (ie wood fences I could get thrown into), when I am working with a kicker, a larger percentage of the time.... I have fallen to many times, my neck is messed up. 

I dont use a helmet when I am in the bush... the bush is not like a trail ride with groomed trails, its when we are breaking trails getting ducking under branches... I dont have a helmet on for one reason, I dont need to get hung up in a tree.. A well fitted helmet and a tall horse could equal up to hanging ones self


----------



## Spyder

xdrybonesxvalleyx said:


> Just to put my two cents in, I think most people think that don't ride with a helmet think that an injury is the sort of thing that isn't going to happen to them.


Lets see now.

I had my head split open once and banged it numerous times ( I still check to see if everything is still there...and it is).

But never while around a horse.

The kitchen is a far far more dangerous place and in fact I actually whacked it this morning not 5 minutes after I made that earlier post. :shock:

And having my head split open....well that is what older brothers do to their little sisters.:wink:

But all my carrots are well protected with custom made ones and spiked to prevent them from suffering the same fate as poor Percy. And from sticky hands attached to an evil wicked mind with thoughts of making them into carrot cake.:evil:


----------



## Northern

*I kinda feel like the host of the thread, so...*

thank you all for contributing! Very interesting discussion!  As for me, all of those "if it hadn't been for my helmet" accounts only reinforced my view, and now I'm sold on back protectors!


----------



## ptvintage

jamesqf said:


> OK, so do you wear body armor and carry a .357 when you go out for a walk in the evening?
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's because to you wearing a helmet, or even a hat, IS a minor thing. To me, it's not. Like Indyhorse, I dislike having to wear anything on my head, so I'd be just as reluctant to wear a cowboy hat, or an English-style derby or top hat for dressage.


Gun, yes, body armor, no.

I actually like hats, I wish I had an occasion where I could wear a Kentucky derby style hat. 

It's completely your choice to wear one or not, and I'm glad we have the choice.


----------



## AlmostThere

roro said:


> There's nothing wrong with that, is there? If I owned a private facility I would require helmets partially for that reason (along with a release form of course).


Yes. We have a very litigious society. I'd cover my butt if I ran a facility these days, too.

My point was, the new standard of making kids wear riding helmets isn't necessarily there because the owners believe in their heart of hearts that that is the best thing to do for the kids. 

We (as a society) have become *way* too overprotective, and in a lot of ways hurt our kids' confidence and creativity and freedom to be and play, by focusing too often on the rare bad outcome that *might* occur.


----------



## Hostage91

dedebird


> (but this might people who don't where helmets don't wear either cause of outfits like a western thing and they want a cowboy hat or they trust their horse alot or they r just really dare devilish or confident lol thats wat i think)/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> i trust my horse with my whole life.. i have never ever worn a helmet and i have been riding since i was 3.. and honestly cowboys and cowgirls.. we hate helmets.. it makes us look weak and we are very proud and hate seeming weak.. we would rather get hurt then wear a helmet.. same reason alot of bull riders dont wear chest protectors and helmets.. and we train our horses to be basically unspookable.. my horse when i take her out instead of spooking at something ive trained her to take it on instead of running from it. so that answers that dedebird lol


----------



## ChingazMyBoy

Gidji said:


> I ride with my helmet 85% of the time. The other 15% is just because Im lazy or its an emergency. But I am interested why some people dont?


Agree, I rode without a helmet in an emergency. My stupid dog fell down a cattle grid (She was fine) and I kinda didn't think just jumped on -- My sister was riding -- and took off, although if I didn't get there my dog would have most likely lost her leg. Smart dog


----------



## StormyBlues

I don't get this whole "I trust my horse" thing. I trust my horse with my life and he trust me with his or neither of us would be jumping 3' oxers or gallop xc!!!!! But a horse is a horse and they are WILD animals no matter how much you train them. You can't bombproof a horse to everything. Again, I trust my horses with my life every time I mount, but I still wear that helmet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LolHorse

I care about my life so am going to do everything in my power to protect it, so I wear a helmet.
I actually hate wearing helmets, I get sweaty, ichy, look like a huge dork, and it's just plain annoying, but I deal with it. (I think am not a big fan of wearing helmets because I NEVER wear anything on my head, except for when riding).
I do believe it's selfish to not wear a helmet, most people have close family and friends, and when your paralyzed or dead those people will have to deal with your unfortante event JUST because you diddn't do a simple favor to them and yourself and wear a helmet, how bad can wearing a helmet be afterall?
Also think about those people that are paralyzed, have brain damage, or some lifethreatning/disibilty, I think it's a slap to the face to them when you could do something that could safe your life, whether it be wearing a seatbelt, helmet, etc... (Did that even make since?) 
Fine don't wear a helmet, it's your life, rule it how you want to.


----------



## Indyhorse

StormyBlues said:


> I don't get this whole "I trust my horse" thing. I trust my horse with my life and he trust me with his or neither of us would be jumping 3' oxers or gallop xc!!!!!


Personally, I agree with the above statement. I don't get the trust my horse thing as a reason not to wear a helmet, and if it was just down to trusting my horses, you wouldn't see me ever riding without a helmet. 

I trust my *ABILITIES.
*
But this following statement, though off topic I just have to nitpick, sorry......



StormyBlues said:


> But a horse is a horse and they are WILD animals no matter how much you train them.


Horses are NOT wild animals. They are domesticated, and have been domesticated for thousands of years - believed to be even prior to 3000 BC. There are NO true wild horses in existence today with the exception of the endangered Przewalski's Horse. There are feral horses (ie mustangs) but that is not the same thing. That's like saying if you dumped your yorkie in Big Bear he'd be a wolf.


----------



## hillarymorganstovall

I think it depends on how and wear people grew up. Some people grew up in areas that required helmets, and some grew up places where nobody wore helmets. 

I grew up in the country in MS, but most of my friends grew up in the city limits in neighborhoods and stuff. My cousins and sister and I never wore helmets riding bikes or fourwheelers and stuff. We had a quarter mile long gravel driveway that didn't have curbs, and we were never allowed to ride on the roads. My friends that lived in the city did though. My mother let us run through the woods and play all the time, but we wore orange in hunting season and wore boots in snake season. So our momma was protective but gave us freedom. 

I just started to ride horses a few years ago and I didn't take lessons or anything and I would've never thought that people wore helmets on horses! Heck, I didn't know people took riding lessons!! It was just like, hop on and go. And some people who live up in the city somewhere probably couldn't imagine some of the things we did growing up. It's crazy how different things are for every person. How they are raised, where they live, how they live, who taught them, all kinds of things


----------



## HooverH

Stormy, just for the record, I actually have a will. In it, it states what happens to all my furkids, including my horses. Hoover becomes a permanent resident of the rescue I board at, and the folks who run the rescue are to find Gunner another good home. They screen very strictly, so I trust them to match him up right.

Just a little food for thought. ; )


----------



## shaker

Same reason I walk down stairs and ride motorcycles without a helmet, drive my boat with out a life vest. Its called comfort and enjoying the ride to its fullest.

When the good lord wants to call me home he will do so with or with out a helmet.:wink:

Nothing against those who want to wear a helmet, nothing wrong with it. It is just not for me.


----------



## Deerly

Number one reason is comfort! I never liked wearing one when I was younger because it always made me so hot and miserable and heavy and bleh! 

If I was riding a horse I didn't trust or doing something very risky I would wear a helmet but I think the comfort level is more important than the risk for my typical day to day.


----------



## hwilliams

riding hats save lives or at leaste from bad injurys! i think that everyone should wear one just to be on the safe side!!!  plus there is some very nice style of hats out atm!


----------



## claireauriga

I've never seen people in the UK ride without a helmet - has anyone else?


----------



## hwilliams

there is loads without a hat, about 6 or 7 down my stables alone!


----------



## Cougar

I always wear my helmet and protective vest no matter what horse I am getting on, and often wear them on the ground too. Depending on the horse I've been known to put on a pair of knee pads and elbow pads as well. I ride on roads a lot, in the bush, and school cross country. For my own personal safety I do whatever I can to limit the amount of injuries I may recieve. Anyone mounting any of my horses will be at the very least wearing a helmet too. Its none of my business what you do or let your children do on someone else's or your own horse, but if you are getting on mine you'll be putting on a hard hat.


----------



## grayshell38

When I was younger I used to wear a helmet occasionally. I was an exceptionally small child and the helmet would constantly throw me off balance. I fell off more often with a helmet than I did without one. This, along with the fact that I cannot tolerate anything on my head made it almost impossible to get a good ride in. So I stopped using one. And, you have to realize, my family was dirt poor and my siblings and I grew up like wild children.We were sent outside to find our own entertainment. If you hadn't gotten hurt that day, then you probably hadn't had any fun. (I personally feel that today's children are quite "bubble wrapped", no necessarily pertaining to this topic, but in general.) If you got hurt, it was your fault and no one complained when they did something dangerous and got the business end of Murphy's Law. I ride and work with my horses barefoot as well, but you will never here me complain if I ever get some broken toes out of it. I am more comfortable without them, and feel that my concentration is better spent on my horse than how sweaty and itchy and heavy or whatnot my shoes or helmet are. I don't care if people do stupid things, just as long as they don't complain when the worst happens. It's not my place to tell someone else that they are lesser suited to surviving than me, or that they are selfish, and their decisions are wrong because I think something differently. 
If it works for you, do it. 
And to the one that insists that we are selfish because we aren't doing something simple to prolong our lives, do you eat a perfectly healthy and balanced diet? Do you get the recommended amount of excersize a day? If not, why? Both of these things, as an example, are shown to keep you healthy, and one would assume if you are healthy, you will live longer. Neither of them is all that hard to do, lots of people do it, or strive to it. So why junk food, or candy, or soda, all of the preservatives and crap in our food? There are options, but you choose not to do that, and that is fine. But if you are not keeping yourself as healthy as possible for your family, so by your definition, does that not make you selfish as well?


----------



## PaintHorseMares

I don't, probably because I'm just an old guy that grew up before bicycle riders wore helments and cars had seat belts.

I certainly should, even though I've never taken a bad fall (except on a wet tile floor in my bathroom). 

...and wearing/not wearing a helmet has nothing to do with your horse, trust or ability, it is simply something to provide some protection from injury, which can happen to anyone at anytime.


----------



## Cougar

grayshell38 said:


> When I was younger I used to wear a helmet occasionally. I was an exceptionally small child and the helmet would constantly throw me off balance. I fell off more often with a helmet than I did without one. This, along with the fact that I cannot tolerate anything on my head made it almost impossible to get a good ride in. So I stopped using one. And, you have to realize, my family was dirt poor and my siblings and I grew up like wild children.We were sent outside to find our own entertainment. If you hadn't gotten hurt that day, then you probably hadn't had any fun. (I personally feel that today's children are quite "bubble wrapped", no necessarily pertaining to this topic, but in general.) If you got hurt, it was your fault and no one complained when they did something dangerous and got the business end of Murphy's Law. I ride and work with my horses barefoot as well, but you will never here me complain if I ever get some broken toes out of it. I am more comfortable without them, and feel that my concentration is better spent on my horse than how sweaty and itchy and heavy or whatnot my shoes or helmet are. I don't care if people do stupid things, just as long as they don't complain when the worst happens. It's not my place to tell someone else that they are lesser suited to surviving than me, or that they are selfish, and their decisions are wrong because I think something differently.
> If it works for you, do it.
> *And to the one that insists that we are selfish because we aren't doing something simple to prolong our lives, do you eat a perfectly healthy and balanced diet? Do you get the recommended amount of excersize a day? If not, why? Both of these things, as an example, are shown to keep you healthy, and one would assume if you are healthy, you will live longer. Neither of them is all that hard to do, lots of people do it, or strive to it. So why junk food, or candy, or soda, all of the preservatives and crap in our food? There are options, but you choose not to do that, and that is fine. But if you are not keeping yourself as healthy as possible for your family, so by your definition, does that not make you selfish as well?*


I can't speak for anyone else but I certainly do. Exercise I do willingly but eating healthy isn't a choice. I get voilently ill from nearly anything labeled "junk food". I am prone to fainting if I am not eating balanced.


----------



## wicastawakan

Cause I don't own one. 

Bottom line is, we all take risks & each person has their acceptable risks in life. I rode a Harley 40+ years. No helmet. Rode bulls. No helmet. A few years in the service w/live bullets. No helmet. We all take acceptable calculated risks. I don't ignore the head injuries & work in the medical field. In fact lost some fingers this past year in a horse wreck & have given it a lot of thought after 8 months of PT. I have learned to compensate to an acceptable degree in my work & have learned to live with the risks of riding a horse. 

As humans, we face risks every day. We all ultimately live out our choices, some good, some bad. Some just are. Yeah, I'm up early to work a couple days & on call. Bored but love talking about horses. 

Do you wear a helmet in your car? If not you should for safety reasons. 
Other reasonsI don't: loss of being able to hear as well, fatigue, hot, loss of peripheral vision. I feel trapped in another world. I always have a problem of wondering how I get it stuck in my back pocket.... I usually wear a bandana or sometimes a cowboy hat if the sun is really beating down. A helmet simply doesn't stop the sun from where I need it. 

Probably the chance of losing a finger is greater than a head injury with horses. Gloves may help, but won't prevent a loss/severe injury.


----------



## xxBarry Godden

Take Care not Risk
This article is one of those which ought to carry a content warning label. The article is long at 1100 words but I make no apologies for writing it and posting on this thread.

In an era when riding hats were not worn as good practice I discovered horses. Over the years I have collected my share of bruises and the only traces remaining of those early years are broken toes. Then two years ago my sins caught up with me. My horse discarded me at the gallop on a downward sloping hard surfaced country lane. I don’t remember all the details of exactly how I hit the ground but there remains a hard lump over my lower spine to remind me of the event.

After the accident I picked myself up, remounted the horse and rather gingerly rode home. A few hours later it was obvious that I would have to go to Accident and Emergency. A lump the size of half an American football had formed over my lower spine. The swelling was throbbing and I could not bear to have it touched. I also had a slight headache. In A&E two pleasant doctors gave me a quick once over. They checked pulse, heat, eyes, word tests etc. then they sent me off to X-ray to see if my spine had been damaged. Later I was pushed back into the examination room to be greeted by smiles. Structurally as far as they could tell I was fine. The haematoma over the spine would probably go down with time but it might be painful for days. The bruising would dissipate. All that remained was for the specialist nerve doctor to examine me.

When the doctor a very pretty, bubbly sort of young women with long blonde air arrived I was pleasantly surprised. Yet again came lots of questions and eventually we got to the big moment when she put on the rubber gloves.
‘What are those for?’ I asked in some alarm.
“Well I need to make one final test but I shall need your cooperation”
‘What do you want me to do?’ I asked
“Well, I am going to put my finger where normally you would not expect a finger to be put and I want you to squeeze it“. She replied in a very matter of fact tone. 
‘What!!!’ I exclaimed 
“Have you been to the loo yet?” came another unexpected question.
‘No’ I replied. 
“Do you think you can go for me know if I give you a bottle?”
‘Well I’ll try but what’s the problem?’
She looked at me and hesitated. “Well,” she says. “The sacrum at the very base of the spine is very strong but under it passes most of the nerves to the lower half of the body. If that area of the spine suffers bruising then the nerves can be damaged. You might not be able to pass water or defecate“.
‘But I did not break any bones and I can walk‘. I pointed out. 
“That is not the point. I need to check your sphincter muscle”

Then came one of the more humiliating experiences in my life. I am laying on a trolley covered only by a thin lace up hospital gown with my rear end bare to the world. I am in a crowded, noisy public ward, divided merely by cloth curtain where a young woman is about to insert her finger into an orifice in my body where to my mind she had absolutely no right to put it. And I had been asked to squeeze that finger. Ugh.! Ugh! Ugh!

Then she went ahead as discussed and inserted the digit. Wince. Wince. Ugh

As it happened there was no permanent damage to the nerves. However it took two days for me to defecate. In my mind I was absolutely terrified that I had lost the capability to perform. I had visions of plastic bags being attached to my groin. I shall remember the experience for the rest of my life. 

However I had kept back one little secret from the hospital staff. On the hack I had been wearing a riding hat which I had been careful to leave behind at the stables. At the rear of the hat, at the point which sits over where the base of the skull meets the spine, numerous small gritty stones had become embedded into the rim. If it had not been for the riding hat, those stones would have torn into the flesh of the nape of my neck. No wonder I had suffered concussion. 

I had been so lucky. As it turned out, with time I healed although I can’t these days sit a skittish horse. My brain keeps telling me that such horses are dangerous - as if I didn’t know.

What’s my point.?

In some sports, horse riding included, we deliberately take the chance that we can cope with the stresses which we know to be present in the sport. In scuba diving you run the risk of suffocating or freezing to death. but if the diver does make a serious mistake he dies. With horse riding you are at the mercy of many influences over which you have absolutely no control. A shy might be induced by a bird flying up off the ground and the accident which hits you the hardest may come instantly from out of the blue. 
Significantly whilst horse riding accidents invariably hurt they are not always fatal. 

Before you make the deliberate decision not to wear the protective equipment for the head and spine which is now available to you, please give some thought to the impact on your life from brain damage or a fractured spine. You may not be dead, but you will be damaged. 

Regardless of riding ability or experience the chances of any horse rider falling off a horse at sometime in the future are pretty high. Mostly the damage is confined to pride and as such is inconsequential. However by wearing a carefully designed riding hat you help to protect the most sensitive part of your body which is your brain. Remember life comes to an end, when there is no brain function. The back protector is also important because it might help to maintain the quality of your life. So long as your brain is OK, then even if you can’t move then you can still live - should you want to.

If I have made you think twice about deliberately not wearing a hat when riding a horse, then the effort of writing this article was worthwhile. 

B G


----------



## Indyhorse

Barry, I appreciate the effort you put into typing out that post.

My father once suffered a similar injury - which caused an abcess in the cavity underneath his tailbone and resulting in which he had to wear feminine products inserted into his nether region for a month. He had slipped and fell down in the shower.


----------



## ShannonSevenfold

I don't simply because I can't afford to buy one. It's a very stupid reason, yes, but I also just feel so uncomfortable riding WITH one. I've fell off, gotten bucked off, everything under the sun. And I still just hate riding with a helmet. (I probably won't make it to 25. :lol


----------



## RawhideKid

Northern said:


> I've often wondered why the helmetless are so; do tell!


For me it's that old vanity thing maybe. But prefer to see it as keeping true to the cowboy or western tradition of apparel. Kind of like many activities or lifestyles...there is a "look" and style that goes with it. My Dad was a true blue 1800s cowboy born a hundred too late...and wore his cowboy hat and geans everywhere cept weddings and funerals...then he doned a suit. Rode his horse into town and tied him up behind the hotel way into the late 1970s. Had a 38 revolver he made a holster out of cowboy boots for. He used to practice his draw out in the back forty. So guess that rugged cowboy style runs in my veins. Just a few plugs fer ma dad! 

But yu know...I find my hat works as a pretty good "helmet" as well. I came off a horse awhile back and landed on my back...my straw hat was cruched in at the back and I felt nothing on my head. Now I even tie my felt hat under my chin when I know I'll be doing some rough riding...so it don't come off if'n I fall.

That's my story....and I'm stickin to it! :lol:

That being said...I can see the "look" of a helmet being suitable for English riding or horse shows. Just my opinion. And I certainly don't have anything against anyone wearing one. I believe it is very good habit for new riders and children.....or anyone if they feel to.


----------



## Iseul

Well..I've ridden in a helmet about 3 times my whole 16 years.
First two times where when I went on trail rides at a public barn and you had to sign a waiver if you didn't.
and the last time was a few months ago when I jumped bareback for the first time. I didn't fall on any of those rides.
but it made me claustrophobic, hot, sweaty, and I was worried about how my hair would look afterwards. lol
I don't wear a helmet because of those ^^ reasons, even though I know I should.
I'll wear them when I go to shows (probably going to have to next week for my first show) and they require them, but they bother me to no end, and I rarely have a good ride with them on, because I focus on that instead of the horse.
My mum and dad don't always agree with it, even though my mum never says anything (which is mainly because she never comes to watch me. >.>) but no one other than two people wear helmets when we're out riding or anything, other than a show. I've never been told by anyone that I couldn't ride unless I slapped a helmet on my head, so I've never felt the biggest need to wear one.
I've fallen once, when I was jumping bareback (about 8" jump) and I landed on my back (purposly) because I used the same technique to fall from a horse as I did on a takedown in TKD. My head never hit the ground until I laid it there because I felt crappy since I fell. Other than that, I've never come off a horse that has reared, bucked, kicked, etc etc.


----------



## Poco1220

I can honestly say that unless I'm jumping, showing, or getting on a training horse for the first couple times I NEVER wear a helmet. I guess I can honestly say I'm just a believer in fate and that what's gonna happen will happen regardless. I can also say that after 2 full out rollovers, totalled car accidents I still won't put on a seatbelt unless I see a cop and will immediatly take the seatbelt off afterwards. I agree it's probably not the smartest moves but it's my choice.


----------



## RawhideKid

Well, since my last fine...about 4 years ago, I have developed a HABIT of always putting my seat-belt on. I HATE donating money to the Government! 

God forbid they ever make wearing a helmet mandatory! To me that would change a hundreds of years of history and tradition. No! No! that would never do!


----------



## CloudsMystique

I'm sorry, but saying people who don't wear helmets are selfish and don't care about their horses is simply absurd. IF any of us happen to die before our horses do, it's HIGHLY unlikely that it will be from a fall. Protecting your horses means having a plan for them if you should die - not wearing a helmet.


Again, how many of you helmet wearers smoke/have smoked? Drink? Do drugs? How many of you eat a perfect diet? Get the right amount of exercise? Leave your house without sunscreen? Drive a car with a less-than-stellar safety rating? Speed?

I'm not saying everyone should always do or don't do those things. I'm saying that the reason you don't do those things (effort? vanity? embarrassment? money?) is probably the same reason we don't wear helmets. Everybody has a line they don't want to cross.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RawhideKid

Amen, sister! Preach it! :lol:


----------



## mom2pride

I do realize the risks in not riding with a helmet, but I just can't seem to bring myself, yet, to ride consistantly with one. Some day I suppose, I probably will, as my mom took til 2 years ago to start riding with a helmet...and she's ridden all of her life, like I have. We have ridden mainly western, so maybe that's the reason why we never really got into the habit of riding with one...


----------



## mom2pride

CloudsMystique said:


> I'm sorry, but saying people who don't wear helmets are selfish and don't care about their horses is simply absurd. IF any of us happen to die before our horses do, it's HIGHLY unlikely that it will be from a fall. Protecting your horses means having a plan for them if you should die - not wearing a helmet.
> 
> 
> Again, how many of you helmet wearers smoke/have smoked? Drink? Do drugs? How many of you eat a perfect diet? Get the right amount of exercise? Leave your house without sunscreen? Drive a car with a less-than-stellar safety rating? Speed?
> 
> I'm not saying everyone should always do or don't do those things. I'm saying that the reason you don't do those things (effort? vanity? embarrassment? money?) is probably the same reason we don't wear helmets. Everybody has a line they don't want to cross.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amen sista!!!!


----------



## jamesqf

AlmostThere said:


> We (as a society) have become *way* too overprotective, and in a lot of ways hurt our kids' confidence and creativity and freedom to be and play, by focusing too often on the rare bad outcome that *might* occur.


And in more ways than just helmets. These days kids get chauffeured to lessons, soccer or Little League games (with uniforms, no less!), and all sorts of organized activities, where we'd just ride our bikes and play.


----------



## Strange

I generally ride with a helmet, but it honestly depends what horse I'm riding and where I'm at. I know my horse inside and out, and even though I'm quite aware that anything can happen to freak him out, I'm really not likely to wear a helmet with him. Hell I just hop on him out in the field with shorts and flip flops on with no tack at all. However there are some horses that I will almost always wear a helmet with. *shrugs* I know it's probably not the smartest to ride without a helmet, but I honestly don't care.


----------



## AvasMom

My horse is still green so I always wear a helmet and I am also jumping so a helmet it like my lifeline.


----------



## RawhideKid

I know a lady who wears a bull riding vest and a helmet when working with a new horse. I wouldn't mind having a vest like that at times. I think the spine is almost more important than the head. A cowboy hat, like I've said, can be pretty good protection.

Especially for someone new to horses...that I'm teaching...I would love to have them all suited up for protection. That is one nightmare I don't care to see...is someone I'm teaching getting seriously hurt!


----------



## jamesqf

grayshell38 said:


> And to the one that insists that we are selfish because we aren't doing something simple to prolong our lives, do you eat a perfectly healthy and balanced diet? Do you get the recommended amount of excersize a day?


Exactly! Why focus on the one minor risk factor that wearing helmets could reduce a bit, and yet ignore all those other major risk factors? 

Look at some numbers: a quick search gives a figure of about 3000 deaths from head injuries each year. That's ALL head injuries, everything from car accidents to slipping in the shower to getting hit over the head by an irate spouse. Search for obesity-related deaths, and I get a figure of 300,000. That's right: you're 100 times more likely to be killed by extra pounds than by a head injury.


----------



## RawhideKid

Look up an over weight person falling on their head. :lol:


----------



## StormyBlues

I do agree that what this country has become, just sitting is dangerous. I DO exersise and eat as well as I can, and I do take care of my body. As I've said before I want to live life to the fullest. I will admit I'm pretty stupid. I cliff dive and do stupid stuff like that.... but still. I'm scared when I don't ride with a helmet.


----------



## StormyBlues

Oh, and helmets have NEVER hindered my hearing, where the heck is that coming from? And if you're so worried about vision, skull caps are disigned espesially for that.


----------



## ilyTango

When we were little riding our pony we never wore a helmet, however, when I upgraded to real horses that fit the standards of normal horse behaviour (spooking, running, rearing, not plodding, walking, stopping) I wore one. And I always wear one. I have not been around enough stuff on her or sat out enough bucks to be truly confident in her bombproofness or my ability to stay on. Unless I'm on a little pony I feel totally unsafe going without. I wear one regardless of how dorky I look because I want to go to university, move out, get a job, and support myself. I don't want to be a vegetable for the rest of my life, and any little measures I can take to minimize that risk I'll take.


----------



## UnrealJumper

It only takes once. =| Might as well spend the money to protect yourself.


----------



## AlmostThere

UnrealJumper said:


> It only takes once. =| Might as well spend the money to protect yourself.


Gah! Why the devil does a thread about why one *does not* wear a helmet turn into a thread about why one *should* wear a helmet :?.


----------



## roro

Because the two topics are quite related, it's an interesting discussion to have. Disagreement keeps a thread alive.


----------



## RawhideKid

I think I would be more worried about breaking my neck...by falling on my head, then a bonk on my head. How about a full body cast! :lol:

But I got nothing against wisdom and precaution. Each person has to go on their own feelings. But it would be a sad day for cowboys like myself if wearing a helmet ever became mandatory.

I think the worst thing I saw was a guy wearing swets, a ball cap and smoking a joint on a horse. My Dad would roll over in his grave! But that's another thread!


----------



## UnrealJumper

AlmostThere said:


> Gah! Why the devil does a thread about why one *does not* wear a helmet turn into a thread about why one *should* wear a helmet :?.


 Because. One should wear a helmet. Would you rather hit your head on the cement and get a concussion? OR. Wear a helmet and be a bit banged up, but okay? The topic of not wearing a helmet brings up the subject of wearing one.


----------



## ilyTango

RawhideKid said:


> I think the worst thing I saw was a guy wearing swets, a ball cap and smoking a joint on a horse. My Dad would roll over in his grave! But that's another thread!


Lol. I wear sweatpants all the time around home just because they're comfy.

...I can't say I've ever smoked a joint while riding though. XD Haha!


----------



## RawhideKid

I got nothing against wearing swets, but on a horse? Not that it's a sin, but I kinda like going all out with the dress and spirit of it. Kinda just who I am. It's an identity thing. Goes right into the marrow of some of us. 

No, this guy was on a trail ride...wearing swets, ball cap and they smoked a joint. I don't get it. Like people who drink and play golf. Personally, I enjoy golf. Don't NEED to drink. :lol:


----------



## StormyBlues

I've ridden in sweats.... only because I had on fleece lined breeches and was still frozen solid so I put on sweat pants OVER that. God I was still cold! It was no fun.


----------



## eventerdrew

I wear a helmet because I like living.


----------



## sarahver

StormyBlues said:


> I do agree that what this country has become, just sitting is dangerous. I DO exersise and eat as well as I can, and I do take care of my body. As I've said before I want to live life to the fullest. I will admit I'm pretty stupid. I cliff dive and do stupid stuff like that.... but still. I'm scared when I don't ride with a helmet.


 
Just curious, does one wear a helmet when cliff diving? 

I am with the helmet wearing camp so not trying being a smarty pants, pretty impressed about the cliff diving actually :wink:


----------



## StormyBlues

nope, cause I'm fallin into water. Kinda like brige jumping really. I want to go to the cliffs at one of the rivers here in Arkansas this summer since last time I was there I was too scared (I was only around 9) but I'll jump off anything into water. Like the 15' or more at the camp I was at. I enjoy free falling. I want to go sky diving at some time....

I will admit to not wearing a helmet while I'm skateboarding.... unless I'm going to drop into vert(which I've already decided is never happening) I probably won't ever wear a helmet skateboarding. A skateboard doesn't have a mind of it's own though...


----------



## sarahver

StormyBlues said:


> A skateboard doesn't have a mind of it's own though...


Well I would agree except that I jumped a skateboard the other week thinking that I would have retained all my skills from highschool in an effort to win a bet with someone.... Unfortunately not the case and hence lost the bet. I swear that thing had a mind of it's own cos it sure as hell wasn't doing what I wanted it to do :shock: I should grow up one day I guess. I wasn't wearing a helmet for that either, although it was going considerably slower than I usually do on a horse (kind of relates to original thread, didn't mean to hijack).


----------



## StormyBlues

Haha, I just do it for fun as a side hobby. I love watching the vert comps, and vert BMX too, I'd never in my life drop into vert though..... scarrrrrry stuff. I'd bet most vert riders would say that about jumping a horse over a 3' oxer too!  anyways... back on topic....


----------



## mom2pride

UnrealJumper said:


> Because. One should wear a helmet. Would you rather hit your head on the cement and get a concussion? OR. Wear a helmet and be a bit banged up, but okay? The topic of not wearing a helmet brings up the subject of wearing one.


Yes, but one could just as easily fall and whack their heads while walking or hiking...that's a "weak" should be reason, imho...I have been injured much more by tripping over stuff, or attempting to skateboard with the youth I work with, than I ever have working with, or on horses...YES, it could happen, and I'm not dismissing that, just that a head injury could happen at any time, not just with horses.


----------



## UnrealJumper

mom2pride said:


> Yes, but one could just as easily fall and whack their heads while walking or hiking...that's a "weak" should be reason, imho...I have been injured much more by tripping over stuff, or attempting to skateboard with the youth I work with, than I ever have working with, or on horses...YES, it could happen, and I'm not dismissing that, just that a head injury could happen at any time, not just with horses.


Yes you have a point in that you can get injured doing anything. 
But riding horses is a dangerous sport (any sport is really). I mean it's not like your going to trip over a pebble and kill yourself (possible, but not probable). But my answer to the question "why do you ride without a helmet?" -- I don't, I'd rather be safe while riding rather than get seriously injured.


----------



## jamesqf

UnrealJumper said:


> Would you rather hit your head on the cement and get a concussion?


A minor digression, but where do you ride on cement? (And doesn't that murder your horses' feet?) Excepting an occasional road crossing, most of the places I've ridden or wanted to ride are either dirt or forest duff of some sort.


----------



## StormyBlues

A helmet can save your life, but horrid things will happen with it too. There was a pro snowboarder that was practicing (he was in HIGH contentions to go to the Olympics and be on the podium, he'd actually beated Shaun White a couple times too) and hit his head, WITH HIS HELMET ON, and was in a coma from December 31 until late late Febuary I think. And he didn't think he would ever snowboard again until earlier this month. Without the helmet he would definatly be dead. Helmets really do save lives.... I've got so many horror stories in my brain it's not even funny...... And if Oliver Townsend wasn't wearing his protective gear he'd be dead right now because of his fall at Rolex this year... OH! And Ralph Hill. One of the best horsemen I know right now, he was in a HORRIBLE fall, permenant brain damage. WITH a Certified helmet. Again, he would be dead if he hadn't had it on. Just food for thought...


----------



## RawhideKid

Me...I'd rather go down LOOKIN GOOOOD! :lol: When I'm laying there dead...I don't want them wondering if this guy was cowboy or a city dude! :lol:

But hey, that's just me. :lol:

"Why do I ride without a helmet"? Because I like wearing a cowboy hat. Simple....but a very serious matter. You know what they say about touching a man's hat?! *NOT* a good thing.


----------



## UnrealJumper

jamesqf said:


> A minor digression, but where do you ride on cement? (And doesn't that murder your horses' feet?) Excepting an occasional road crossing, most of the places I've ridden or wanted to ride are either dirt or forest duff of some sort.


Don't you ever go on the occasional road ride? Theres footing on the side of the road to walk on, but the cement is *right* there.


----------



## mom2pride

Like I said before, I do know the risks but I just haven't chosen to break down and get a helmet; again, I was taught Western (mostly competed WP, Horsemanship, etc), and so it was never stressed to wear a helmet, because you don't compete with a helmet. I still mainly ride western, but also have done dressage (again, a 'horse sport') that doesn't enforce wearing a helmet. 

Nothing anyone says, will probably change my perception, because it has to come to the point where I choose it for myself; won't matter how much someone shoves it down my throat. Should I? Yes. But do I...No.


----------



## RawhideKid

Cowboying and riding horses has been going on for MANY, MANY years...with cowboy hats and all the western apparel. Heads and horses and people are still made the same. Fear and modern thinking has already changed too many old ways and down to earth traditions. Start touching a man's hat...and yer touching something sacred.

Wearing a helmet should be by choice, or at least by one's own discetion concerning themselves or their children or other people's children.


----------



## sarahver

RawhideKid said:


> Cowboying and riding horses has been going on for MANY, MANY years...with cowboy hats and all the western apparel. Heads and horses and people are still made the same. Fear and modern thinking has already changed too many old ways and down to earth traditions. Start touching a man's hat...and yer touching something sacred.
> 
> Wearing a helmet should be by choice, or at least by one's own discetion concerning themselves or their children or other people's children.


Ah yes, and might I also mention at some stage in the history of human evolution we were running around naked chasing each other with clubs. I'm actually pointing this out purely for discussion, if you want to wear a cowboy hat, go for it, I actually like them. Just wanted to point out that just because something has been done for years does not mean it is the best option.


----------



## AlmostThere

UnrealJumper said:


> Don't you ever go on the occasional road ride? Theres footing on the side of the road to walk on, but the cement is *right* there.


Actually, where I live most of the roads are dirt and even the paved ones don't have sidewalks.


----------



## Indyhorse

RawhideKid said:


> Me...I'd rather go down LOOKIN GOOOOD! :lol: When I'm laying there dead...I don't want them wondering if this guy was cowboy or a city dude! :lol:
> 
> But hey, that's just me. :lol:
> 
> "Why do I ride without a helmet"? Because I like wearing a cowboy hat. Simple....but a very serious matter. You know what they say about touching a man's hat?! *NOT* a good thing.


I personally just want to thank you, Rawhide Kid for the awesome mood you've put in on this thread! High entertainment value and keeping things light, diffusing tempers - well done! I keep coming back just to see what you're gonna say next :lol::lol::lol:


----------



## UnrealJumper

AlmostThere said:


> Actually, where I live most of the roads are dirt and even the paved ones don't have sidewalks.


Where i live theres space on the side of the road that is for horses. (its in the country)


----------



## ShutUpJoe

I don't wear one because I'm forgetful. I really need to get into the habit though. I haven't fell off a horse in over a year but you never know what could happen.


----------



## nrhareiner

Never have and probably never will. Do not use them in shows so why would I any other time? Now if a kid comes over and rides one of the horses I make them put one on.


----------



## RawhideKid

Indyhorse said:


> I personally just want to thank you, Rawhide Kid for the awesome mood you've put in on this thread! High entertainment value and keeping things light, diffusing tempers - well done! I keep coming back just to see what you're gonna say next :lol::lol::lol:


Thanks. Cowboys...as well as natives, are known for a good sense of humour. But we take our traditions pretty seriously...even if it kills us. Head-dresses, cowboy hats, and all.


----------



## RawhideKid

sarahver said:


> Ah yes, and might I also mention at some stage in the history of human evolution we were running around naked chasing each other with clubs. I'm actually pointing this out purely for discussion, if you want to wear a cowboy hat, go for it, I actually like them. Just wanted to point out that just because something has been done for years does not mean it is the best option.


I don't think you want to go down that trail with me. We would have to consider whether it might have been better to live the native's way, rather than the white man's. Would we have all the environmental concerns today?...and a total destroying of the earth. Back to the ancient ways, my friend. :wink:

You might want to choose your trails wisely.


----------



## lilkitty90

i didn't ready through all the pages as it's late and i need to sleep but since i seen this and it's geared to helmetless riders A.K.A meeee i thought i'd put in my 2 cents.

i've never had a lesson in my life and i bought a VERY green horse as my first(she had been ridden 1 time) my mom had owned and broke and rode horses before and she hopped on and rode her around some. and put me on told me how to spot and steer and how to fall off if i needed. so i basically broke my own horses with 0 lessons. 
now on to the helemt! i've never EVER wore a helmet while riding as i feel i look dumb. and it hinders my sight. the don't fit. and they are VERY annoying to deal with. the one time i did wear a helmet was when i went and tested out snowflake. the guy made me wear it.  and it was very awkward. i can not stand helmets. and i figure if you are already risking your life to ride a horse i don't see much of a difference. if god meant for me to die. then i'd die whether i was wearing a helmet while riding a horse or not. or if i tripped walking down the road. whats meant to be WILL happen and a helmet makes no difference.


----------



## RawhideKid

Amen! It's about time we had some mature, seasoned and time tested wisdom on this thread! :wink:

Actually, I will insist that other people's children who ride my horses wear helmets. But as for me wearing em, it just aint gonna happen....unless I am on a trail ride or someone's property where they insist I wear one; and then...only if I decide to still ride there.


----------



## Lucentael

Wearing a helmet is a habit for me, I've always worn one while riding and now it's just hard-coded into me. If I forget it, I have that 'off' feeling, and when I realize the 'problem' is my helmet isn't on my head I go get it! Haha!

Of course there's the safety factor to wearing a helmet too, but ultimately I just 'feel' better with one on. Without it I feel awkward. 

I also don't have that issue with getting too hot with a helmet on like some do; I'm one of those people who has a hard time staying warm, so a helmet is just all the better for me!


----------



## kevinshorses

Hostage91 said:


> dedebird
> 
> 
> 
> (but this might people who don't where helmets don't wear either cause of outfits like a western thing and they want a cowboy hat or they trust their horse alot or they r just really dare devilish or confident lol thats wat i think)/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> i trust my horse with my whole life.. i have never ever worn a helmet and i have been riding since i was 3.. and honestly cowboys and cowgirls.. we hate helmets.. it makes us look weak and we are very proud and hate seeming weak.. we would rather get hurt then wear a helmet.. same reason alot of bull riders dont wear chest protectors and helmets.. and we train our horses to be basically unspookable.. my horse when i take her out instead of spooking at something ive trained her to take it on instead of running from it. so that answers that dedebird lol
> 
> 
> 
> I am a cowboy and horse trainer by trade and this person does NOT speak for me. I don't wear a helmet though I probably should at times and after reading this thread I may look into buying one for those first few rides on a young horse anyways.
Click to expand...


----------



## kevinshorses

StormyBlues said:


> A helmet can save your life, but horrid things will happen with it too. There was a pro snowboarder that was practicing (he was in HIGH contentions to go to the Olympics and be on the podium, he'd actually beated Shaun White a couple times too) and hit his head, WITH HIS HELMET ON, and was in a coma from December 31 until late late Febuary I think. And he didn't think he would ever snowboard again until earlier this month. Without the helmet he would definatly be dead. Helmets really do save lives.... I've got so many horror stories in my brain it's not even funny...... And if Oliver Townsend wasn't wearing his protective gear he'd be dead right now because of his fall at Rolex this year... OH! And Ralph Hill. One of the best horsemen I know right now, he was in a HORRIBLE fall, permenant brain damage. WITH a Certified helmet. Again, he would be dead if he hadn't had it on. Just food for thought...


Christopher Reeves would have been dead if he hadn't worn a helmet too. I know I would rather die than be paralyzed from the neck down like he was. When it's your time to go nothing you can do will prevent it. Dale earnhart was wearing all kinds of safety gear and a tiny little crash into the wall killed him instantly.


----------



## RawhideKid

I wonder why they don't make wearing a helmet in a veicle mandatory. At least with a horse it is just you and the horse. With veicles on the road you are at the mercy of everyone else's driving ability and awareness as well. Seems to me helmets are insisted upon in just about every sport except driving a car....convertables included.

Can't you just see a bunch of cowboys herding cattle with helmets on?! Please! Gimme a break! :lol: (I'm sure the "gimme a break" comment will give someone a chance for a comeback.  )

A couple of movie phrases come to mind. "There are a few things worse than dying".

And... "Everyone dies; not everyone really lives". -Braveheart

*Some things just help you to REALLY live! Cowboy hats being one of them! :lol:*


----------



## xxBarry Godden

Well, Northern - you started a thread with a simple question and here we are just 2 days later with 160 replies and 2040 viewers. That's a hot topic indeed.

Amazingly it probably has more to run.

Looking on from over the pond for me it has been a very interesting thread and maybe I can eventually summarize some of it. Fascinating stuff.


B G


----------



## wild_spot

> Can't you just see a bunch of cowboys herding cattle with helmets on?! Please! Gimme a break! :lol: (I'm sure the "gimme a break" comment will give someone a chance for a comeback.  )


I work cattle with a helmet on :]

We actually have a rule campdrafting (Similar-ish to working cow horse) EVERYONE has to wear a helmet when competeing. It's funny seeing the old cowboys trading their hat in for a helmet before they go in the arena. Some look very different!


----------



## ilyTango

RawhideKid said:


> Me...I'd rather go down LOOKIN GOOOOD! :lol: When I'm laying there dead...I don't want them wondering if this guy was cowboy or a city dude! :lol:
> 
> But hey, that's just me. :lol:
> 
> "Why do I ride without a helmet"? Because I like wearing a cowboy hat. Simple....but a very serious matter. You know what they say about touching a man's hat?! *NOT* a good thing.


lol. My dad's motto as a teen: Live fast, die young, and leave behind a good-looking corpse. 

But honestly, I'd rather just hit my head and be dead and over with and done than live in a wheelchair the rest of my life. I mean, dying would be tough on my family, but only for a while-if I was in a wheelchair I'd be a burden for the rest of my life, and all I could do is sit there.


----------



## sarahver

RawhideKid said:


> I don't think you want to go down that trail with me. We would have to consider whether it might have been better to live the native's way, rather than the white man's. Would we have all the environmental concerns today?...and a total destroying of the earth. Back to the ancient ways, my friend. :wink:
> 
> You might want to choose your trails wisely.


It's OK I have a pretty fast horse so if we happen to bump into you on the trails I should be able to head for the hills pretty quick (through the vegetation of course to cause maximum devastation to wildlife). Boots for the horse and helmet for me of course, no worries cowboy!!!

I do agree with the destruction of the earth, you might have me on that one :wink:


----------



## sarahver

Barry Godden said:


> Well, Northern - you started a thread with a simple question and here we are just 2 days later with 160 replies and 2040 viewers. That's a hot topic indeed.
> 
> Amazingly it probably has more to run.
> 
> Looking on from over the pond for me it has been a very interesting thread and maybe I can eventually summarize some of it. Fascinating stuff.
> 
> 
> B G


Please do a summary! Your posts are so eloquent yet entertaining at the same time, I always enjoy reading them.


----------



## RawhideKid

wild_spot said:


> I work cattle with a helmet on :]
> 
> We actually have a rule campdrafting (Similar-ish to working cow horse) EVERYONE has to wear a helmet when competeing. It's funny seeing the old cowboys trading their hat in for a helmet before they go in the arena. Some look very different!


Kinda like selling your birthright! People are folding in many arenas of life! :wink:


----------



## RawhideKid

sarahver said:


> Please do a summary! Your posts are so eloquent yet entertaining at the same time, I always enjoy reading them.


It might be a summary, but it surely won't be a conclusion. Guaranteed to get hotter. :lol:


----------



## RawhideKid

sarahver said:


> It's OK I have a pretty fast horse so if we happen to bump into you on the trails I should be able to head for the hills pretty quick (through the vegetation of course to cause maximum devastation to wildlife). Boots for the horse and helmet for me of course, no worries cowboy!!!
> 
> I do agree with the destruction of the earth, you might have me on that one :wink:


I thought it "whiskey for my boys, and beer for my horses". Not that I'm a drinker. I'd be the rough and tumble cowpoke...sitting at the saloon watching the UFC fights with a diet pepsi! :lol: The only manly lookin character in the place who left totally sober and happy!...with hat intact.


----------



## RawhideKid

RawhideKid said:


> It might be a summary, but it surely won't be a conclusion. Guaranteed to get hotter. :lol:


Those summarizers are usually the worst compromisers! Trying to unite both sides...anything to avoid another OK Corral incident! :wink:


----------



## eventerdrew

Just for reference: Christopher Reeve was not wearing an approved helmet. They didn't have the system at the time. He is the reason why they have the system. He was wearing a huntcap on XC and fell.


----------



## catskinner

Barry Godden said:


> Well, Northern - you started a thread with a simple question and here we are just 2 days later with 160 replies and 2040 viewers. That's a hot topic indeed.
> 
> Amazingly it probably has more to run.
> 
> Looking on from over the pond for me it has been a very interesting thread and maybe I can eventually summarize some of it. Fascinating stuff.
> 
> 
> B G


 
Thats why we "used" to live in the land of the free, free to make your choice and live with it.


----------



## StormyBlues

Id rather be in a wheelchair, at least I could still ride and take care of my horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

I'd rather be dead than be a vegetable (thankfully my parents know enough to pull the plug) and the same for paralyzed. I wouldn't be able to feed my horses in a wheelchair, Soda would probably run through the fence when he saw me coming. LOL 

I ride in areas where there isn't a lot of "danger" that a helmets going to save me from. Sure I ride on the road, but I'm more worried about him spooking into a vehicle than me coming off and bashing my head on the ground. Then again I'm still looking for a helmet.


----------



## QHDragon

i always always ALWAYS ride with a helmet. The couple of times I have gotten out without a helmet and relised it I have always jumped off right away, one time I had to walk about two miles home! I don't understand people who don't ride with a helmet, its so silly, helmets are cheap and can save your head!


----------



## RawhideKid

Not me....I'm looking for an omelette.


----------



## RawhideKid

QHDragon said:


> i always always ALWAYS ride with a helmet. The couple of times I have gotten out without a helmet and relised it I have always jumped off right away, one time I had to walk about two miles home! I don't understand people who don't ride with a helmet, its so silly, helmets are cheap and can save your head!


You are just one breed (style) of rider. Probably Engish, show, jumper and such. Then there's cowboys and down-to-earth country bumpkins who ride rough shod and natural. There is a character, image and identity some folks stay true to as to who they are. 

Read through the whole thread. It will shed light on your lack of understanding.


----------



## StormyBlues

RawhideKid said:


> Not me....I'm looking for an omelette.


 wanna bring me one?


----------



## RawhideKid

Like, did you hear about the guy going to the Hamlet looking for an omelette wearing his helmet?


----------



## nrhareiner

There seems to be a big gap between western riders and English riders and even barns. One English barn I shoot at. The shows they have there not only do they require every person who is on a horse to have a helmet they also have an EMT on duty and if the EMT leaves for any reason to get a drink to go to the bathroom you name it the show stops. If they give lessons in the in door arena and have any more then 2 riders they have an EMT on duty.

If you go to a western barn you will see 10 people riding around with out helmets and not an EMT in sight. At shows even the kids show with out helmets. It is just a different culture and way of thinking.


----------



## StormyBlues

No, I havn't heard of that... it sounds quite halarious!


----------



## jamesqf

sarahver said:


> Ah yes, and might I also mention at some stage in the history of human evolution we were running around naked chasing each other with clubs.


And at a slightly later stage in the history of human evolution people rode around on the backs of big animals, but in the modern world we have dirt bikes and quads, so we don't have to do nasty primitive things like that any longer


----------



## Sunny

I grew up riding without a helmet because I never had one. I, however, am investing in one this month since I am starting Sunbun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AlmostThere

Why not wear a helmet? 

Because wearing something for 999 rides just to protect my head if I land on it on ride 1000 is not a good trade off in my book. 

Besides, I wear a hat with a very wide brim to protect me from the sun. If I got in the habit of spending a lot of time outside without it, I'd probably be in more danger of skin cancer than smashing my head in :wink:.

BTW, for those of you so passionate about wearing helmets, and so desperate to convince us wayward souls... I'm much more moved to wear a helmet hearing about the occasional bad fall with tragic consequences (or broken helmets and thus not so tragic consequences), than being told how darn stupid, selfish, and deserving of death I am. The latter argument just makes me want to dig in my heels and be even more stubborn on the topic.

Just thought you'd like to know :wink:.


----------



## Spyder

AlmostThere said:


> than being told how darn stupid, selfish, and deserving of death I am. The latter argument just makes me want to dig in my heels and be even more stubborn on the topic.
> 
> Just thought you'd like to know :wink:.


They are called helmet Nazis....LOL


----------



## Tennessee

I don't wear a helmet unless I go trail riding on public land where it is required for minors to wear one. 

If I am taking the risk to get on an animal that could kill me anyways, why wear a helmet? Who's to say that even with your bulky, ugly helmet on you don't fall off and end up breaking your neck? Then what's next? Wear a neck brace every time you ride? Or say someone breaks their arm riding a horse. Then are people going to freak out if you don't wear a protection for your arm? 

The way I see it, people giving out all of these examples of people getting head injuries is not going to do anything to me but go in one ear and out the other. People die in car wrecks every day, but does that stop you from getting in a car and risking your life there? I didn't think so. 

If you have a problem with me not wearing a helmet, then find a quarter and call someone who cares.




EDIT : And I suppose I should add that I have had head injuries thanks to horses. But, two concussions and a busted head opened once later and I am still kicking. I ain't no pansy, so I just keep on riding instead of worrying about some piece of plastic on my head.  
- Tiffany


----------



## smrobs

AlmostThere said:


> Besides, I wear a hat with a very wide brim to protect me from the sun. If I got in the habit of spending a lot of time outside without it, I'd probably be in more danger of skin cancer than smashing my head in :wink:.


Couldn't agree more. I don't wear one, never have, and likely never will. My brother and I have both had head injuries (his much more severe than mine) but miraculously, neither one of them was a result of falling. We were afoot when ours happened. I am an adult, I know the risk and I accept that. My thinking is that everyone dies. Wearing a helmet every day of my life won't stop me from being killed in a car wreck tomorrow. Plus, I worked in a prison for almost 6 years; compared to that, equine sports are safe LOL. I grew up in a ranch/western world and here, helmets are unheard of. Even most of the children don't wear helmets when riding. I suppose that if I had grown up in a world where they were common, I might feel differently about it but I didn't.


----------



## Tennessee

smrobs said:


> Couldn't agree more. I don't wear one, never have, and likely never will. My brother and I have both had head injuries (his much more severe than mine) but miraculously, neither one of them was a result of falling. We were afoot when ours happened. I am an adult, I know the risk and I accept that. My thinking is that everyone dies. Wearing a helmet every day of my life won't stop me from being killed in a car wreck tomorrow. Plus, I worked in a prison for almost 6 years; compared to that, equine sports are safe LOL. * I grew up in a ranch/western world and here, helmets are unheard of. Even most of the children don't wear helmets when riding.* I suppose that if I had grown up in a world where they were common, I might feel differently about it but I didn't.


That is how it is around here. Helmet riders are few and far between. 

The only exception is that at my saddle club the pee wee classes (8 years and under) are required to wear approved helmets.


----------



## nrhareiner

Why back in the old days. Kids rode in cars in the front seat with no safety seat, air bags or even a seat belt. They rode their bikes bare foot with no helmet or knee or elbow pads. They even gasp rode skateboards with out a helmet or other protection. Hockey players did not use helmets either and guess what we all lived to tell about it. Heaven for bid.


----------



## BarrelracingArabian

I ride with a helmet becuase my last fall without one ended with me having a minor concusion and having to be woken up throughout the night and i like to sleep haha. But the only time i don't have a hlemet on is if i forget to get it out of my moms truck when i go ride others horses.


----------



## AlmostThere

nrhareiner said:


> Why back in the old days. Kids rode in cars in the front seat with no safety seat, air bags or even a seat belt. *They rode their bikes bare foot with no helmet or knee or elbow pads.* They even gasp rode skateboards with out a helmet or other protection. Hockey players did not use helmets either and guess what we all lived to tell about it. Heaven for bid.


Shhh... Don't tell anyone, but my kids were doing that just last week :wink:.


----------



## kevinshorses

I think that we are protecting our children to death. Kids don't play outside anymore because thier parents are afraid of kidnappers and molesters but kidnapings are very very rare and it is usually a close family member or friend that molests a kid. That being said I have one helmet for my 6 yo and my wife ordered another for my 9 yo so that they can ride with me this summer. I will probably also be buying a helmet for myself to wear the first few rides on a horse. I'll just have to hide it from my cowboy friends. I ride several hours per day under the hot sun so I will still be wearing my cowboy hat most of the time.


----------



## stacieandtheboys

Skipsfirstspike said:


> I wear a helmet because I am a mom. I am more important now than I used to be. I have to protect myself for them. What would happen to my kids if I got severely hurt or worse?
> Before my kids were born, I Never wore one. I also rode harder, faster, and took a lot more risks.


This...I wear one most of the time. I also make my kids wear one. They are the only kids at playdays who wear them when we go and you know what...I don't care. Their safety means more to me than anything in the world. When they are 18 then they can make that decision for themselves.


----------



## farley

i have had more falls then i can count, i am a young kid who feel invinsable while riding, and yes its completely irrisponsible and dumb but its jus something i cant seem to get in the habit of doing it, i get my horse and make sure he is safe and do nothing for my self. im soo proud of all you parents who make your children ride with helmets your saving lives!!!

i took i tremendous fall in the eigth grade luckly i had parents who forced one on me befor a long ride, i fell a quarter of a mile from home, broke the helmet and landed my self in the ER, drs were amazed i hadnt broke my neck or that my head wasnt split open.today i still dont remember most of that day, but am thankful for my folks, who still stress it intensly but i still manage to forget


----------



## kmacdougall

RawhideKid said:


> I wonder why they don't make wearing a helmet in a veicle mandatory. At least with a horse it is just you and the horse. With veicles on the road you are at the mercy of everyone else's driving ability and awareness as well. Seems to me helmets are insisted upon in just about every sport except driving a car....convertables included.
> 
> Can't you just see a bunch of cowboys herding cattle with helmets on?! Please! Gimme a break! :lol: (I'm sure the "gimme a break" comment will give someone a chance for a comeback.  )
> 
> A couple of movie phrases come to mind. "There are a few things worse than dying".
> 
> And... "Everyone dies; not everyone really lives". -Braveheart
> 
> *Some things just help you to REALLY live! Cowboy hats being one of them! :lol:*


You have this attitude that all cowboys or people who aren't "english show jumpers" don't wear helmets and people who do are just silly people who don't appreciate what it is to really live and blah blah blah. Well let me tell you a little story, "cowboy". 

I'm not here to change anyone's mind about helmets and whether they are or aren't the greatest thing to ever happen to humanity but I am here to say that RK's attitude of "all cowboys are good and holy and never wear helmets cause helmets are STOOOPID" is, quite frankly, ridiculous. My father is one of the toughest sons of guns I know. He's a high-risk crane operator which means, basically, that he does the job that everyone else gets their panties in knots over. He's been in demand with some of the world's biggest crane companies for some of their most dangerous jobs. I have videos of him in situations such as perched at the top of huge cliffs lifting massive pieces of equipment using large, expensive cranes that he couldn't even put the footers out on. At one point, in one video, the crane completely tilts and looks like it's going to fall off the side of the cliff. You can hear about 80 men go "OH *****" and the cameraman drops the camera. You wanna tell me he's not the toughest son of a gun going? I'll provide you with video footage that will make you catch your breath and almost get sick.

He used to ride a massive Morgan stallion on trail rides through the mountains. In fact, he used to take me and my pony on some of the tamer ones. Would he put a helmet on? You're darn right he would. As he puts it "you're my only child, and I want to live to see you down the aisle" as well as many other things he'd like to see me do.

Does he have an incredibly dangerous job? I don't think there's anyone that could answer no to this question.
Does he ride with a helmet? Yep. That man is 50 years old and if you think he gives, for lack of a better term, a **** about what anyone else thinks of him, you're wrong. He's confident and smart and successful and he enjoys being alive and if that means putting a helmet on in case of accident then he's going to put it on and buckle it proudly.

To the rest of you, carry on!


----------



## Sunny

Great post, Dougall.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xxBarry Godden

*To wear a hard hat or not to wear a hard hat. That was the real question 975 words apprx*
Together we have debated over the internet the matter of the hard hat which has been designed specifically to give protection to the rider’s skull. Opinions posted have ranged from: “always protect the head without exception” to: ”I’ll never wear one, ever“. When looking at the profiles of 79 of the members who posted I became aware that what appeared to be the English style riders generally speaking favoured wearing hats whereas most of the Westerners simply don’t like hard hats at all and what’s more they don’t see the need for them. Indeed any compulsion to wear one would be strongly resisted as a matter of principle. One staunch Western rider contributed over 20 posts in which he fiercely advocated the right of the rider to be allowed to make up his/her own mind. 17 members agreed with him and a further 17 said they did not always wear a hard hat. However. in spite of the fact that the thread was actually addressed to riders who did not wear a hat, 45 contributors confirmed that they always did wear a riding hard hat. 

Throughout Western Europe the fact is that to ride without wearing a hard hat is nowadays seen to be an irresponsible act on the part of the rider. He/she would be showing no respect for himself. the family, the dependents, the employer, the owner of the horse or even the horse itself. If the rider is covered by insurance for personal accident when riding and it is discovered later that the rider was hatless then he/she will lose a percentage of any due compensation for wantonly disregarding his/her own well being. In many scenarios the rider has to wear a hat otherwise he/she cannot participate. In schools or riding centres invariably the horse operator would lose his licence to trade if the clients were permitted to ignore the protective hat order It follows that if you want to ride in Western Europe then for all practical purposes, there is little option but to wear a quality assured protective hat at all times. Interestingly this diktat is no longer resisted by the riding fraternity, even though to my knowledge no rider has ever been prosecuted for not wearing a hard hat. 

How has the scenario in Europe come about? Largely it was a result of Health & Safety advice. Maybe the domination of the sport by the female of the species was influential. Perhaps there is an awareness that a rider will almost certainly fall off at some stage or another. If you push a horse to jump at speed, brightly painted three foot high gates then you must expect that sooner or late the horse will refuse and the average rider will be discarded. Indeed if a rider doesn’t fall off from time to time then maybe he/she is not trying hard enough. When one falls 5ft of a speeding horse you can easily bang your head and many jumpers do. Maybe the fear of the long term impact of brain damage had an effect. Government doesn’t like the cost of long term disability.

The replies from what appears to be the English style riders in the US were overwhelmingly in favour of hats. However seemingly it is still common practice for the private owner to ride out when hatless on his or her own horse. That is their right.

In the US, the Western rider’s traditional outfit includes a cowboy hat. It is obvious to see why a modern hard hat would seem to be incongruous. Appearance in the Western culture is important and the wearing of an English styled hat would be utterly inappropriate. However if I personally were to revisit Texas to ride, then I would put a jockey’s skull cap in my bag together with a large sized baseball cap to be worn over the top. I do enjoy a big, comfy saddle with its horn and deep seat and those leather stirrups. Were I to fall then I’d claim that I was not used to riding on the wrong side of the road. 

In Western Horse culture, the horse doesn’t usually jump and with all those wide open spaces neither does the rider have to mix it with busy traffic in concreted jungles However the cowboys do tangle with steers and they also break young broncs in rodeo arenas. Both sports to my British eyes involve a significant risk to life and limb however the participants by tradition don’t seem to wear much in the way of body protection. No wonder they don’t worry about riding hats. 

My personal summary of this debate and perhaps the answer to Northern’s first question is that a key element in why some American riders do not rate hard hats is because there is no real pressure on the rider to wear them. Perhaps uniquely in this modern world, Americans still value highly their right of personal choice even at the possible price of brain damage. They can still chose not to wear a hard hat despite the evidence for wearing one. That is true freedom of choice in action. 

Sorry Guys & Dolls, but if you come visit over Europe way and want to try out the local riding, then you‘ll be very welcome but the hard hats will be compulsory, even if they spoil the hair do. It won’t matter that the centre happens to ride the Western way. My guess is that within a few years hereabouts it will also be compulsory to wear spine protectors and high visibility coats whenever riding out in the community. 
I suggest you guys keep chucking the tea in the harbour.

B G


----------



## wild_spot

I also take offense to the idea that 'cowboys' or western riders are 'above' wearing helmets, or the thinly veiled idea that if they do wear helmets they are somehow betraying the 'cowboy' way of life.

I do some rough riding in some rough country after cattle. There is NO way you would get me doing what I do without a helmet on. I gallop down hills that are rife with rabbit holes, rocks, rotten logs, bits of wire, you name it. My horse can be the most reliable horse in the world, but that won't save us if he happens to get a leg in a rabbit hole going a hundred miles an hour headlong down a hill.

As I mentioned earlier, we have a rule in campdrafting that everyone, no matter how big or small, old or young, tough or not, MUST wear a helmet when on the arena. The 'cowboys' trade their akubra in for a helmet and not one of them complains. We ride on deep, soft sand, but that won't mean jack if you get a hoof to the head.

I honestly do not care if anyone chooses not to wear a helmet, unless they are on my horse or my property. But I hate the holier than thou attitudes on both sides of the fence. Being an english rider does not mean you are a helmet nazi. Being a western rider does not mean you have to wear a hat and loudly proclaim you don't wear a helmet because you live the 'cowboy' life.


----------



## AlmostThere

Barry Godden said:


> *To wear a hard hat or not to wear a hard hat. That was the real question 975 words apprx*
> Together we have debated over the internet the matter of the hard hat which has been designed specifically to give protection to the rider’s skull. Opinions posted have ranged from: “always protect the head without exception” to: ”I’ll never wear one, ever“. When looking at the profiles of 79 of the members who posted I became aware that what appeared to be the English style riders generally speaking favoured wearing hats whereas most of the Westerners simply don’t like hard hats at all and what’s more they don’t see the need for them. Indeed any compulsion to wear one would be strongly resisted as a matter of principle. One staunch Western rider contributed over 20 posts in which he fiercely advocated the right of the rider to be allowed to make up his/her own mind. 17 members agreed with him and a further 17 said they did not always wear a hard hat. However. in spite of the fact that the thread was actually addressed to riders who did not wear a hat, 45 contributors confirmed that they always did wear a riding hard hat.
> 
> Throughout Western Europe the fact is that to ride without wearing a hard hat is nowadays seen to be an irresponsible act on the part of the rider. He/she would be showing no respect for himself. the family, the dependents, the employer, the owner of the horse or even the horse itself. If the rider is covered by insurance for personal accident when riding and it is discovered later that the rider was hatless then he/she will lose a percentage of any due compensation for wantonly disregarding his/her own well being. In many scenarios the rider has to wear a hat otherwise he/she cannot participate. In schools or riding centres invariably the horse operator would lose his licence to trade if the clients were permitted to ignore the protective hat order It follows that if you want to ride in Western Europe then for all practical purposes, there is little option but to wear a quality assured protective hat at all times. Interestingly this diktat is no longer resisted by the riding fraternity, even though to my knowledge no rider has ever been prosecuted for not wearing a hard hat.
> 
> How has the scenario in Europe come about? Largely it was a result of Health & Safety advice. Maybe the domination of the sport by the female of the species was influential. Perhaps there is an awareness that a rider will almost certainly fall off at some stage or another. If you push a horse to jump at speed, brightly painted three foot high gates then you must expect that sooner or late the horse will refuse and the average rider will be discarded. Indeed if a rider doesn’t fall off from time to time then maybe he/she is not trying hard enough. When one falls 5ft of a speeding horse you can easily bang your head and many jumpers do. Maybe the fear of the long term impact of brain damage had an effect. Government doesn’t like the cost of long term disability.
> 
> The replies from what appears to be the English style riders in the US were overwhelmingly in favour of hats. However seemingly it is still common practice for the private owner to ride out when hatless on his or her own horse. That is their right.
> 
> In the US, the Western rider’s traditional outfit includes a cowboy hat. It is obvious to see why a modern hard hat would seem to be incongruous. Appearance in the Western culture is important and the wearing of an English styled hat would be utterly inappropriate. However if I personally were to revisit Texas to ride, then I would put a jockey’s skull cap in my bag together with a large sized baseball cap to be worn over the top. I do enjoy a big, comfy saddle with its horn and deep seat and those leather stirrups. Were I to fall then I’d claim that I was not used to riding on the wrong side of the road.
> 
> In Western Horse culture, the horse doesn’t usually jump and with all those wide open spaces neither does the rider have to mix it with busy traffic in concreted jungles However the cowboys do tangle with steers and they also break young broncs in rodeo arenas. Both sports to my British eyes involve a significant risk to life and limb however the participants by tradition don’t seem to wear much in the way of body protection. No wonder they don’t worry about riding hats.
> 
> My personal summary of this debate and perhaps the answer to Northern’s first question is that a key element in why some American riders do not rate hard hats is because there is no real pressure on the rider to wear them. *Perhaps uniquely in this modern world, Americans still value highly their right of personal choice even at the possible price of brain damage.* They can still chose not to wear a hard hat despite the evidence for wearing one. That is true freedom of choice in action.
> 
> Sorry Guys & Dolls, but if you come visit over Europe way and want to try out the local riding, then you‘ll be very welcome but the hard hats will be compulsory, even if they spoil the hair do. It won’t matter that the centre happens to ride the Western way. My guess is that within a few years hereabouts it will also be compulsory to wear spine protectors and high visibility coats whenever riding out in the community.
> *I suggest you guys keep chucking the tea in the harbour.*
> 
> B G


:lol: Barry, you are brilliant. I love your summary and writing even if you and I are on different sides of what was not even supposed to be a debate on this thread :wink:.

Bravo :clap:


----------



## wild_spot

> Barry, you are brilliant. I love your summary and writing even if you and I are on different sides of what was *not even supposed to be a debate* on this thread


Nobody posts a topic like this with such a brief introduction if they didn't mean for a debate :]


----------



## Northern

Not so, Wild Spot; "Why *Do* You Wear a Helmet?" couldn't be a sillier thread topic. It turned into a debate by the exercise of free speech.


----------



## grayshell38

wild_spot said:


> Nobody posts a topic like this with such a brief introduction if they didn't mean for a debate :]


So just because she thought that the extremely uncomplicated title was understandable and didn't think she had to elaborate on it, "the gauntlet has been thrown!"?:roll: That is ridiculous and that is the same mentality that causes quite a bit of the unneeded drama on forums. That, and the "she didn't say this WASN'T what the thread was about and I will give my side of the story even though it wasn't asked for because I can." are what causes bad blood. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's a matter of being polite.


----------



## darkwillow

Debates happen because people feel the need to be heard, even if it is irrelevant.


----------



## sarahver

jamesqf said:


> And at a slightly later stage in the history of human evolution people rode around on the backs of big animals, but in the modern world we have dirt bikes and quads, so we don't have to do nasty primitive things like that any longer


OK smarty pants, what are you doing on a horse forum then???


----------



## wild_spot

> Not so, Wild Spot; "Why *Do* You Wear a Helmet?" couldn't be a sillier thread topic.


For you maybe - For the average rider who doesn't wear a helmet it would be a perfectly valid topic.



> So just because she thought that the extremely uncomplicated title was understandable and didn't think she had to elaborate on it, "the gauntlet has been thrown!"?:roll: That is ridiculous and that is the same mentality that causes quite a bit of the unneeded drama on forums. That, and the "she didn't say this WASN'T what the thread was about and I will give my side of the story even though it wasn't asked for because I can." are what causes bad blood. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. It's a matter of being polite.


Firstly, don't get your knickers in a knot over me - I have only entered this thread a page or two back and haven't been debating. I never mentioned a gauntlet or anything of the sort.

Let me rephrase my comment: Someone who posts a topic like this with such a brief OP and expects NO debate is extremely naive in both the workings of forums and of the horse world.


----------



## sarahver

Barry Godden said:


> In the US, the Western rider’s traditional outfit includes a cowboy hat. It is obvious to see why a modern hard hat would seem to be incongruous. Appearance in the Western culture is important and the wearing of an English styled hat would be utterly inappropriate. However if I personally were to revisit Texas to ride, then I would put a jockey’s skull cap in my bag together with a large sized baseball cap to be worn over the top. I do enjoy a big, comfy saddle with its horn and deep seat and those leather stirrups. Were I to fall then I’d claim that I was not used to riding on the wrong side of the road.


He he, well said. Having recently moved to Texas from Australia (*cough* still kicking butt in the Commonwealth Games *cough*) this statement really made me giggle. Might I suggest you not worry so much about the baseball cap and rather ensure you have a decent 10 gallon hat or the like. Chaps with tassles are a must. Glitter and sequins seem to be strangely popular for the ladies, not sure the basis for it.

Oh and as for the big comfy saddles, I recently found out their true value when a young horse decided to go pro-rodeo with me this week: Much easier to stick in a western saddle than a dressage saddle!!!


----------



## grayshell38

Wild_Spot, other than the first part, my statement was meant to be a general one and not necessarily aimed at you. But you have to admit that the way you had worded your statement was a bit misleading as to what you really meant. It sounded as though you were saying that they purposely posted this topic to cause trouble. Had that been what you meant, that would have been rude, but as you have rephrased your statement to be more clear, then it is now a moot point. 

Now, your rephrased comment is still not what we were meaning.(or at least me, won't speak for anyone else.) I was trying to say that even if it is off topic, but has some iota of a connection to the real topic, people will put their feelings and thoughts in about their topic, literally, "because we can" or "it's our right", all the while their "topic" (usually one that is highly debated/able) is taking away from the actual conversation and starts a debate that didn't need to be started and wasn't asked for. The question was simple: IF YOU DO NOT WEAR A HELMET, WHY NOT? Not, "All of you that wear helmets come here and tell everyone that you do wear one and then tell them how they are less fit to survive than you and how selfish they are."(not that all of them did, but it was most definitely put out there.) What my point was, is that, just because you are on an open forum and we have the freedom to give our opinions, doesn't mean we should. It's called curbing yourself. At least make a new thread if you want to discuss something other than the original question, or a subsequent, closely related topic that comes up on the thread. THAT is what I'm saying. If it even made any sense.


----------



## RawhideKid

Quite frankly I don't care what anyone thinks my attitude is. I've never used the word "stupid" or "pansy" or any such put-down. Just the fact that I personally see and adhere to the cowboy tradition of wearing cowboy hats. I wouldn't change that for anything. 

People can choose to do what they want. All the power to them. I don't wanna see anyone get hurt. But when it comes to my riding....I will wear a cowboy hat. That decision on my part isn't even open for discussion.

Do whatever you want. I really couldn't care less. But when I am responsible for other children riding my horses I will have them wear helmets, until they are old enough and good enough riders to make their own decisions on the matter.

Why don't I wear a helmet? Because I don't want to. It's not my style. Period.


----------



## wild_spot

> Now, your rephrased comment is still not what we were meaning.(or at least me, won't speak for anyone else.) I was trying to say that even if it is off topic, but has some iota of a connection to the real topic, people will put their feelings and thoughts in about their topic, literally, "because we can" or "it's our right", all the while their "topic" (usually one that is highly debated/able) is taking away from the actual conversation and starts a debate that didn't need to be started and wasn't asked for. The question was simple: IF YOU DO NOT WEAR A HELMET, WHY NOT? Not, "All of you that wear helmets come here and tell everyone that you do wear one and then tell them how they are less fit to survive than you and how selfish they are."(not that all of them did, but it was most definitely put out there.) What my point was, is that, just because you are on an open forum and we have the freedom to give our opinions, doesn't mean we should. It's called curbing yourself. At least make a new thread if you want to discuss something other than the original question, or a subsequent, closely related topic that comes up on the thread. THAT is what I'm saying. If it even made any sense.


Forums are principally places for discussion - It is very difficult to have a perfectly linear discussion, in real life, or on the internet. Often times valuable knowledge is brought up by tangent. Saying that those who do wear helmets shouldn't post in this topic is akin to saying those who don't event shouldn't post in the eventing section. 

All the posts made in this thread (Except for these few, lol!) have been close enough to the original question that there would be no point starting a new thread - The exact same discussion would just continue in two places instead of one. It is perfectly reasonable when asked a question to post regarding the flip side of that question. 

My statement was simply in response to the statement that debate wasn't asked for - It is a well known fact that you can not pot 'hot topics' on a horse forum - Such as slaughter, helmets, breaking young horses, or shoes vs. barefoot - Without invoking debate. It just isn't possible. Even if the intention is there, there is always some piece of mis-information posted, or something similar, that actually needs correcting, and off it goes. The only reason I first posted to this thread was in response to a statement made that those who ride western, or work cows, are somehow bound by a 'cowboy' code that dictates they not wear helmets. If that comment had never been made I would have probably stayed out of this thread, as I am quite comfortable in my own choice to wear a helmet :]

Debate doesn't always have to mean 'trouble' - many posters enjoy a good intelligent and non-heated debate, which is what this thread has been, minues a few posts.

My statement was not intended to offend anyone and was written in a somewhat lighthearted mood - Yes, the original statement. I am sorry you took it differently than what I intended.


----------



## Northern

I wasn't greatly offended, WildSpot, but brevity of OP doesn't equal wanting a debate & I don't see the sense of asking why one _does_ wear a helmet because there's only one answer: safety (& safety-so-that's). I wanted to hear from those who_ don't_ wear helmets, & yet appreciated the contributions from those who do, because it might've helped someone.:idea:


----------



## AlmostThere

Northern said:


> I wasn't greatly offended, WildSpot, but brevity of OP doesn't equal wanting a debate & *I don't see the sense of asking why one does wear a helmet because there's only one answer: safety* (& safety-so-that's). I wanted to hear from those who_ don't_ wear helmets, & yet appreciated the contributions from those who do, because it might've helped someone.:idea:


It seems there were a few more answers besides safety :wink: - habit, parents/riding school makes me, required at competitions, feeling weird without it, peer pressure. 

Add to that all those _because I'm not selfish, stupid, or suicidal_ and you might have gotten a lot of responses to a why one *does *wear a helmet thread :lol:.


----------



## RawhideKid

Add to that all those _because I'm not selfish, stupid, or suicidal_ and you might have gotten a lot of responses to a why one *does *wear a helmet thread :lol:. 
__________________


And here I was the one accused of having a bad, condescending and insulting attitude... BTW what does "selfishness" have to do with not wearing a helmet? Oh, is it because i might die and leave my family without a son, brother, father, etc.? What about the selfish gluttonists who smoke, drink and eat too much? Drive too fast, or just get in a car (without a helmet on) that goes whizzing by other veicles at high speeds about 4 feet away from each other....putting your trust in other drivers not being "stupid, selfish or suicidal"?

BTW for your information...it is a proven and self-evident fact that over the past 100 or so years people have gotten softer, weaker, and more fear ridden. Yes, used to be as kids we were loose in the car or truck without seatbelts, in the back of a pickup, etc., and no one ever got hurt. Used to be boxers fought with bear fisted knuckles for 20 or 30 rounds (or no rounds) and they were tough as nails. Used to be we worked around the clock...on call...lifting 100 pound bags of weight material in 30 below weather....driving out in the bush for 24 hours straight.

People nowadays are folding to all kinds of political correctness, compromise, with weak constitutions, more susceptible to allergies, couldn't put in a hard days work if their life depended on it. Many teenagers are characterless wimps who can't even pull their pants up, who have no respect for authority, swear around old ladies, etc.

Yeah??? I'll tel you what....there are still some of us who are tough, with character as rough as timber and hearts as soft as cotton, who simply don our hats and go riding off into the sunset!...and leave the majority to depend on science and technology to save their lives. What a joke!


----------



## Tennessee

RawhideKid said:


> Add to that all those _because I'm not selfish, stupid, or suicidal_ and you might have gotten a lot of responses to a why one *does *wear a helmet thread :lol:.
> __________________
> 
> 
> And here I was the one accused of having a bad, condescending and insulting attitude... BTW what does "selfishness" have to do with not wearing a helmet? Oh, is it because i might die and leave my family without a son, brother, father, etc.? What about the selfish gluttonists who smoke, drink and eat too much? Drive too fast, or just get in a car (without a helmet on) that goes whizzing by other veicles at high speeds about 4 feet away from each other....putting your trust in other drivers not being "stupid, selfish or suicidal"?
> 
> BTW for your information...it is a proven and self-evident fact that over the past 100 or so years people have gotten softer, weaker, and more fear ridden. Yes, used to be as kids we were loose in the car or truck without seatbelts, in the back of a pickup, etc., and no one ever got hurt. Used to be boxers fought with bear fisted knuckles for 20 or 30 rounds (or no rounds) and they were tough as nails. Used to be we worked around the clock...on call...lifting 100 pound bags of weight material in 30 below weather....driving out in the bush for 24 hours straight.
> 
> People nowadays are folding to all kinds of political correctness, compromise, with weak constitutions, more susceptible to allergies, couldn't put in a hard days work if their life depended on it. Many teenagers are characterless wimps who can't even pull their pants up, who have no respect for authority, swear around old ladies, etc.
> 
> Yeah??? I'll tel you what....there are still some of us who are tough, with character as rough as timber and hearts as soft as cotton, who simply don our hats and go riding off into the sunset!...and leave the majority to depend on science and technology to save their lives. What a joke!


:clap: I agree with that one hundred and fifty percent.


----------



## Indyhorse

RawhideKid said:


> Add to that all those _because I'm not selfish, stupid, or suicidal_ and you might have gotten a lot of responses to a why one *does *wear a helmet thread :lol:.
> __________________
> 
> 
> And here I was the one accused of having a bad, condescending and insulting attitude... BTW what does "selfishness" have to do with not wearing a helmet? Oh, is it because i might die and leave my family without a son, brother, father, etc.? What about the selfish gluttonists who smoke, drink and eat too much? Drive too fast, or just get in a car (without a helmet on) that goes whizzing by other veicles at high speeds about 4 feet away from each other....putting your trust in other drivers not being "stupid, selfish or suicidal"?
> 
> BTW for your information...it is a proven and self-evident fact that over the past 100 or so years people have gotten softer, weaker, and more fear ridden. Yes, used to be as kids we were loose in the car or truck without seatbelts, in the back of a pickup, etc., and no one ever got hurt. Used to be boxers fought with bear fisted knuckles for 20 or 30 rounds (or no rounds) and they were tough as nails. Used to be we worked around the clock...on call...lifting 100 pound bags of weight material in 30 below weather....driving out in the bush for 24 hours straight.
> 
> People nowadays are folding to all kinds of political correctness, compromise, with weak constitutions, more susceptible to allergies, couldn't put in a hard days work if their life depended on it. Many teenagers are characterless wimps who can't even pull their pants up, who have no respect for authority, swear around old ladies, etc.
> 
> Yeah??? I'll tel you what....there are still some of us who are tough, with character as rough as timber and hearts as soft as cotton, who simply don our hats and go riding off into the sunset!...and leave the majority to depend on science and technology to save their lives. What a joke!


Bravo!! :clap::clap::clap:


----------



## themacpack

AlmostThere said:


> It seems there were a few more answers besides safety :wink: - habit, parents/riding school makes me, required at competitions, feeling weird without it, peer pressure.
> 
> Add to that all those _because I'm not selfish, stupid, or suicidal_ and you might have gotten a lot of responses to a why one *does *wear a helmet thread :lol:.



Wow, way to make sweeping generalities about those who opt not to wear one. I think I'll let Rawhide's response say the rest for me.


----------



## mom2pride

RawhideKid said:


> I thought it "whiskey for my boys, and beer for my horses". Not that I'm a drinker. I'd be the rough and tumble cowpoke...sitting at the saloon watching the UFC fights with a diet pepsi! :lol: The only manly lookin character in the place who left totally sober and happy!...with hat intact.


And you actually remember the night...:lol:


----------



## Speed Racer

RawhideKid said:


> I'll tel you what....there are still some of us who are tough, with character as rough as timber and hearts as soft as cotton, who simply don our hats and go riding off into the sunset!


There are those of us who wear helmets who can also lay claim to this. 

It's not my way to tell people they_ must_ wear a helmet. It's a choice, plain and simple. It's all about what one considers acceptable risk.

The adults who choose or not to wear a helmet do so from personal choice. Wearing or _not_ wearing one does not make someone smarter, kinder, tougher or more 'cool' than those with opposing viewpoints.

I grew up in an era when helmets were rarely worn by English riders, unless someone was showing and it was mandatory. I learned to ride without a helmet, and rode my green as grass horse on trails without a helmet.

I started wearing a helmet for the simple reason that for me, _not_ wearing one nowadays is an unacceptable risk. I'm older, and I don't bounce as well as I used to; I tend to splat and break things now.

I'm also planning to get a vest, because the last time a horse went rodeo on me I broke some ribs, a collar bone, and lost feeling on part of my left side. I still have some numbness, and the doctors say it's likely permanent. 

I understand the desire not to have anything _mandatory_, and I agree with that. We've just about 'lawed' ourselves into a coma in this country, and I'd like to see less rules. Live free or die is a motto I can certainly get behind!


----------



## Indyhorse

Funny, not one "non-helmet wearer" on this thread has stated, "I don't wear a helmet, and I don't think you should either because bleh bleh bleh."

Each non helmet wearer has stated they choose not to wear one, and listed whatever personal reason or right of choice they chose not to. I've yet to see one try to press their beliefs on someone else, or tell other people should chose not to wear a helmet for the reasons they selected.

Strangely, the other side is not so respectful of people's right to free choice.


----------



## mom2pride

themacpack said:


> Wow, way to make sweeping generalities about those who opt not to wear one. I think I'll let Rawhide's response say the rest for me.


Unfortunately I have to agree with Rawhide here...

I don't feel I'm selfish for not wearing a helmt...I just don't wear one, plain as jelly on bread; and no insulting, self loathing, and out of bounds generalizations are likely to change that. It's a personal choice, and I see nothing wrong with that;after all we are free to choose, are we not? If I'm meant to die around horses, it will happen regardless of all the safety equipment, and what's so wrong with death anyway? 

Have we become so afraid of it that we can't even face up to the reality that it WILL happen no matter how "safely bubble wrapped" we live? No sir, I'm not afraid to die, and I would only hope it would be on the back of my horse, because it's one of the places I would rather be on any given day.


----------



## Northern

*Almost There, the idea is safety!*

The "other" reasons you mention are not other than safety (competitions, etc.-all for safety). The "because I'm not selfish" is my "safety-so-that": safety-so-that-I'm-not-a burden-on-society-should-I-become-a-vegetable, or orphan my children, etc. Habit: came from the idea of wearing a helmet for safety; either one's own idea or someone else's that one acquiesced to. 

You say I_ might've_ gotten a lot of responses from the helmet-wearers? It's obvious that I did!


----------



## RawhideKid

Thanks to all for your moral support and good humour! :lol: Even though I'm as serious as a cobra! Ha!

Here's some more...

My Dad had it right when he changed the words in the song, "Mammas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys" to *"Mammas don't let your cowboys grow up to be babies!"* 

Hey, have a great day. I'm off now to go riding up in the high country...hunting bear! :? Lord, please keep me safe! Amen.


----------



## mom2pride

RawhideKid said:


> Thanks to all for your moral support and good humour! :lol: Even though I'm as serious as a cobra! Ha!
> 
> Here's some more...
> 
> My Dad had it right when he changed the words in the song, "Mammas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys" to *"Mammas don't let your cowboys grow up to be babies!"*
> 
> Hey, have a great day. I'm off now to go riding up in the high country...hunting bear! :? Lord, please keep me safe! Amen.


Don't forget your head gear...:wink:


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~

Keep in mind the helmet does not make it impossible to break your neck or spine and I have still sustained a concussion while wearing one. Just because you're wearing a helmet doesn't mean you can't have severe or fatal injuries. Yes, it reduces the risk, but saying "I wear a helmet because it's safe" and thinking that you will not sustain injury is like relying on your seat belt to save your life in a car accident. In a minor one it will probably help, but if you're getting hit by a train your chances of survival whether you're wearing a seat belt or not are fairly slim either way.

I myself do wear a helmet because I know that horses are dangerous, wild animals and if I were to be in a "normal" accident, a helmet would most likely help me out. I don't ride with a body protector or neck brace though. At competitions I will usually wear my top hat which offers no protection. If I really have a nutter for a horse I'll don the helmet, but it is traditional to wear a top hat, so I do. I'm already trying my very best not to fall off in the ring because I'm being judged, and not having a helmet is just added motivation to stay on


----------



## RawhideKid

"Funny, not one "non-helmet wearer" on this thread has stated, "I don't wear a helmet, and I don't think you should either because bleh bleh bleh." "

Yeah, really! Now I'm going to go riding if i can wipe away the tears from laughing so hard! :lol:


----------



## RawhideKid

mom2pride said:


> Don't forget your head gear...:wink:


I always bring my hat with me.  But thanks for the reminder. :wink:


----------



## RawhideKid

Just gotta tell ya all....this last bit of conversation SO made my day! :lol: Bless you all.


----------



## SorrelHorse

The only way I would ride helmetless is if I was riding Jester. He's probably the only one I know well enough to _really _trust. What I don't get is those bronc riders and bull riders who don't wear helmets. I mean, honestly! You know you'll fall. There's no guessing there!


----------



## SorrelHorse

RawhideKid said:


> Thanks to all for your moral support and good humour! :lol: Even though I'm as serious as a cobra! Ha!
> 
> Here's some more...
> 
> My Dad had it right when he changed the words in the song, "Mammas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys" to *"Mammas don't let your cowboys grow up to be babies!"*
> 
> Hey, have a great day. I'm off now to go riding up in the high country...hunting bear! :? Lord, please keep me safe! Amen.


Haha! That's my new philosophy


----------



## charlicata

I only wear a helmet when I'm riding on the farm where I keep my guys. That's only because after my accident, the owner told me that I HAD to wear a helmet while riding there. I have come off of two different horses with a helmet on. Both times I ended up with a concussion because my head bounced when I hit the ground. The first time I could kind of understand, I was wearing somebody else's helmet that was too big. The second time though, I had my own helmet that fit perfectly. 

The way I see it is when it's your time, you're gonna go no matter what you're doing. That person told me that said, "At least I'll go doing something that I love."


----------



## ilyTango

Speed Racer said:


> There are those of us who wear helmets who can also lay claim to this.
> 
> It's not my way to tell people they_ must_ wear a helmet. It's a choice, plain and simple. It's all about what one considers acceptable risk.
> 
> The adults who choose or not to wear a helmet do so from personal choice. Wearing or _not_ wearing one does not make someone smarter, kinder, tougher or more 'cool' than those with opposing viewpoints.
> 
> I understand the desire not to have anything _mandatory_, and I agree with that. We've just about 'lawed' ourselves into a coma in this country, and I'd like to see less rules. Live free or die is a motto I can certainly get behind!


I'm going to agree with this. Because I wear a helmet when I ride does not mean I am scared of everything and shut myself in a glass bubble. I still rarely wear a seatbelt in a car, I still ride in the back of pickup trucks, I still ride my bike barefoot without a helmet down the road. Am I more likely to get hurt doing these things than riding a horse? Yes, probably, but the difference between all that and horse riding is that I've been riding in cars and on bikes my entire life with people whose driving abilities I trust more than anything. I've been riding my horse a year and a half, less than a sixth of my life. I _don't _feel completely confident in my riding abilities, and until I do I'm going to wear a helmet and try to minimize any risk I have of getting hurt.


----------



## mls

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> I myself do wear a helmet because I know that horses are dangerous, wild animals and if I were to be in a "normal" accident, a helmet would most likely help me out.


There is no such thing as a normal accident. An accident is just that - an unanticipated occurance.

A person in the horse world here died a few years ago from a head injury. She slipped and hit her head hitching up her trailer. That is about as freaky of an accident as there is. She did wear a helmet when she rode. Another person was kicked in the head handling a young foal. She also died.

We all have our time in the master plan.

If it's required, I have no problem wearing a helmet. I choose not to the majority of the time.


----------



## justsambam08

I don't because....I don't. I did have one, and I just got another one (that I'll probably wear for a short amount of time and then ditch it again) but honestly, its HOT in Florida. I have a dark bay horse, who radiates heat in the summer, and I have dark hair. Even with a white helmet, my head bakes in 15 minutes tops.

I have fallen off of a horse before, and my helmet actually popped off on impact. the straps were snug and everything....I just landed at a wierd angle. I have also fallen off without a helmet, and got hurt less that time, then because I had learned to fall. So take that, statistics!


----------



## nrhareiner

Northern said:


> I wasn't greatly offended, WildSpot, but brevity of OP doesn't equal wanting a debate & I don't see the sense of asking why one _does_ wear a helmet because there's only one answer: safety (& safety-so-that's). I wanted to hear from those who_ don't_ wear helmets, & yet appreciated the contributions from those who do, because it might've helped someone.:idea:


Sure it does. I can see where WildSpot gets the idea that the question was started to invoke a debate. As the ONLY real reason to use a helmet is safety. When you ask why someone would not in and of itself it is saying that those who do not use a helmet does not care about safety which is the farthest from the truth. I just put the safety in other areas. It would be akin to asking why motorcycle riders do not use a helmet. B/C they do not want to. They put their safety in other areas of their riding.

By asking any question regardless on intent in which there are 2 very definite sides and people feel strongly about there will always end up in a debate. Even asking a question about Impressive and not wanting any info on HyPP you know you are going to get it and it will lead to a debate about breeding and genetic defects. It is inevitable.


----------



## AlmostThere

themacpack said:


> AlmostThere said:
> 
> 
> 
> It seems there were a few more answers besides safety :wink: - habit, parents/riding school makes me, required at competitions, feeling weird without it, peer pressure.
> 
> Add to that all those _because I'm not selfish, stupid, or suicidal_ and you might have gotten a lot of responses to a why one *does *wear a helmet thread :lol:.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, way to make sweeping generalities about those who opt not to wear one. I think I'll let Rawhide's response say the rest for me.
Click to expand...

Dang it, I was being facetious. I already posted several times on the side of I don't wear a helmet, I've never worn a helmet, and I'm dang annoyed with all the people who do wear helmets butting in on a thread and calling me and others all those things. It was my own little snarky summary. Seems I riled up the people on my side of what I still maintain should not have been a debate (yes I know that make me naive, but dang it, the tone of the must wear it folks was ****ing me off).

We all participate in a dangerous sport. We ride horses. I say if I choosing to ride does not make me stupid. selfish. or suicidal then choosing to *not *wear a helmet when I ride does not make me those things either. If you, as a helmet wearer, are so concerned about leaving your family with the burden of you when you are injured, then stay off the horse. Stay away from the potential broken arms, legs, ankles, backs, ribs, whatever else you can damage when you land on something other than your head.

Otherwise, if riding is so important and worth the risk, them maybe consider that it's worth the risk *without* the helmet for the rest of us.


----------



## jamesqf

sarahver said:


> OK smarty pants, what are you doing on a horse forum then???


Being sarcastic, of course


----------



## themacpack

Oops, my bad, AlmostThere.........


----------



## shaker

Barry Godden said:


> *To wear a hard hat or not to wear a hard hat. That was the real question 975 words apprx*
> Together we have debated over the internet the matter of the hard hat which has been designed specifically to give protection to the rider’s skull. Opinions posted have ranged from: “always protect the head without exception” to: ”I’ll never wear one, ever“. When looking at the profiles of 79 of the members who posted I became aware that what appeared to be the English style riders generally speaking favoured wearing hats whereas most of the Westerners simply don’t like hard hats at all and what’s more they don’t see the need for them. Indeed any compulsion to wear one would be strongly resisted as a matter of principle. One staunch Western rider contributed over 20 posts in which he fiercely advocated the right of the rider to be allowed to make up his/her own mind. 17 members agreed with him and a further 17 said they did not always wear a hard hat. However. in spite of the fact that the thread was actually addressed to riders who did not wear a hat, 45 contributors confirmed that they always did wear a riding hard hat.
> 
> Throughout Western Europe the fact is that to ride without wearing a hard hat is nowadays seen to be an irresponsible act on the part of the rider. He/she would be showing no respect for himself. the family, the dependents, the employer, the owner of the horse or even the horse itself. If the rider is covered by insurance for personal accident when riding and it is discovered later that the rider was hatless then he/she will lose a percentage of any due compensation for wantonly disregarding his/her own well being. In many scenarios the rider has to wear a hat otherwise he/she cannot participate. In schools or riding centres invariably the horse operator would lose his licence to trade if the clients were permitted to ignore the protective hat order It follows that if you want to ride in Western Europe then for all practical purposes, there is little option but to wear a quality assured protective hat at all times. Interestingly this diktat is no longer resisted by the riding fraternity, even though to my knowledge no rider has ever been prosecuted for not wearing a hard hat.
> 
> How has the scenario in Europe come about? Largely it was a result of Health & Safety advice. Maybe the domination of the sport by the female of the species was influential. Perhaps there is an awareness that a rider will almost certainly fall off at some stage or another. If you push a horse to jump at speed, brightly painted three foot high gates then you must expect that sooner or late the horse will refuse and the average rider will be discarded. Indeed if a rider doesn’t fall off from time to time then maybe he/she is not trying hard enough. When one falls 5ft of a speeding horse you can easily bang your head and many jumpers do. Maybe the fear of the long term impact of brain damage had an effect. Government doesn’t like the cost of long term disability.
> 
> The replies from what appears to be the English style riders in the US were overwhelmingly in favour of hats. However seemingly it is still common practice for the private owner to ride out when hatless on his or her own horse. That is their right.
> 
> In the US, the Western rider’s traditional outfit includes a cowboy hat. It is obvious to see why a modern hard hat would seem to be incongruous. Appearance in the Western culture is important and the wearing of an English styled hat would be utterly inappropriate. However if I personally were to revisit Texas to ride, then I would put a jockey’s skull cap in my bag together with a large sized baseball cap to be worn over the top. I do enjoy a big, comfy saddle with its horn and deep seat and those leather stirrups. Were I to fall then I’d claim that I was not used to riding on the wrong side of the road.
> 
> In Western Horse culture, the horse doesn’t usually jump and with all those wide open spaces neither does the rider have to mix it with busy traffic in concreted jungles However the cowboys do tangle with steers and they also break young broncs in rodeo arenas. Both sports to my British eyes involve a significant risk to life and limb however the participants by tradition don’t seem to wear much in the way of body protection. No wonder they don’t worry about riding hats.
> 
> My personal summary of this debate and perhaps the answer to Northern’s first question is that a key element in why some American riders do not rate hard hats is because there is no real pressure on the rider to wear them. *Perhaps uniquely in this modern world, Americans still value highly their right of personal choice *even at the possible price of brain damage. They can still chose not to wear a hard hat despite the evidence for wearing one. That is true freedom of choice in action.
> 
> Sorry Guys & Dolls, but if you come visit over Europe way and want to try out the local riding, then you‘ll be very welcome but the hard hats will be compulsory, even if they spoil the hair do. It won’t matter that the centre happens to ride the Western way. My guess is that within a few years hereabouts it will also be compulsory to wear spine protectors and high visibility coats whenever riding out in the community.
> I suggest you guys keep chucking the tea in the harbour.
> 
> B G


 
What amazes me is that there are people that don't value personal freedom.

There has been thousands and thousands of Americans spill their blood so that we could have our freedom, and most of us Americans remember that. So don't worry I will continue to chuck your tea, drink my coffee and ride the way I want wearing what I want. :wink:


----------



## AlmostThere

themacpack said:


> Oops, my bad, AlmostThere.........


No Worries . I obviously didn't make myself clear in that post, and at least I got another of RawHideKid's speeches out of the deal .


----------



## wicastawakan

Well, just walked in from riding in my pasture for a couple hours. Teaching a horse to neck rein & finally has it down, at least for today. Ha. Folded up my bandana, which once again saved my noggin, & stuck it in my back pocket & off to look at a friend's horses. Wonderful ride. Thinking about going out this week-end & wondered if any suggestions about unprotected ... Aw, forget it.

I'm stunned by the number of posts on this tho! Amazing.

Neat saying on a helmet from Viet Nam era: Do not puncture, contents under pressure!


----------



## nrhareiner

mls said:


> There is no such thing as a normal accident. An accident is just that - an unanticipated occurance.
> 
> A person in the horse world here died a few years ago from a head injury. She slipped and hit her head hitching up her trailer. That is about as freaky of an accident as there is. She did wear a helmet when she rode. Another person was kicked in the head handling a young foal. She also died.
> 
> We all have our time in the master plan.
> 
> If it's required, I have no problem wearing a helmet. I choose not to the majority of the time.



Could have also slipped off the dock at the lake and drowned. Hit in the head pounding nails when the hammer head comes off the handle. Fall of the letter changing a light bulb. Could have, should have....

I know 2 guys who died while riding/showing their horses. Both from a hart attack. Go figure. Nothing you are going to do is going to change a thing when it is your time.

I am use there are more freak accidents then not.


----------



## jamesqf

Barry Godden said:


> If you push a horse to jump at speed, brightly painted three foot high gates then you must expect that sooner or late the horse will refuse and the average rider will be discarded. Indeed if a rider doesn’t fall off from time to time then maybe he/she is not trying hard enough.


Perhaps that is part of the problem, that the generic term "horseback riding" covers so many different activities. Believe me, jumping over three foot objects, whether they're brightly painted or not, is not something I ever intend to do on a horse. The sort of riding I & most people I know do involves mostly walk & trot on anything from dirt roads to trails. 

Given this, wearing a helmet or other protective gear seems equivalent to wearing the same sort of gear while hiking. Yes, I do slip or trip occasionally, and I suppose by some unlikely accident might hit my head in such a way that a helmet would prevent injury, but what are the odds?

That's really what bugs me about the whole safety thing, that the same people who want me to take inconvenient precautions to protect myself against what are really minor risks, will at the same time unthinking accept, and even seek, much greater real risks that I mostly avoid. The rider who preaches to me about wearing a helmet for my own safety then gets into her (high-centered, difficult to control, dangerous to others) SUV to drive home. On the way she'll use her cell phone to chat & text with friends, maybe do her nails in traffic, drink a HFCS-laden Big Gulp soft drink and eat some fast food to pack a few more ounces on an already chubby body... 

So who's concerned with real safety here?


----------



## wild_spot

The arguments about how 'in the ol ddays we didn't have seatbelts or blah blah blah and *no one died or got hurt*...' always make me laugh.

Of course people got hurt and died! We drove to my dad's home town for a competition recently and he told me about three or four friends of his who died on this one stretch of road. One flew threw the windscreen and hit a tree.

You didn't know every person and every kid - People get hurt and die everywhere, every year, wether they are wrapped in cotton wool or not. You who don't wear helmets say that 'My time will come and no helmet will save me when my time is up' - Did those adults and kids back then NOT have a time? Of course they did - But death was accepted as inevitable and a way of life back then, which was the ONLY difference. Nowadays we have scientists and countless people who try and make our lives longer and death harder to come by. Again, that is the only difference.

Indyhorse - You mentioned that no non-helmet wearer has pushed their view on others - I sure feel like i'm being told i'm not tough and couldn't possibly be a real cowboy/cowgirl if I wear a helmet!


----------



## Barbie Girl

I usually dont wear a helmet unless im at a show or fair. I wear my cowboy hat around the farm to round up cows.


----------



## xxBarry Godden

Shaker
Please read it again. otherwise I shall have to think of re-writing it. 
I am actually applauding the American insistence on personal freedom - most of we Europeans have lost out to intrusive Governmental control first to British National Government then to European Union Government - (translate into State and Federal). Laws are imposed on we Brits by foreigners - or fellow Europeans.
We Brits, especially the English living in Wales, have little choice in the matter.

Perhaps I was trying to be too clever when I wrote the article. Even my wife said the wording was obtuse.

Barry G

Ps When riding English I wear a hard hat. From time to time I ride Western, then I don't. In Britain there is no law against riding without a protective hat - but there are some significant financial implications if, hatless, you fall off and bang your head. Similarly if you crash the car when not wearing a seat belt (which is against the law), you'll lose compensation for personal injury.


----------



## ilyTango

wild_spot said:


> The arguments about how 'in the ol ddays we didn't have seatbelts or blah blah blah and *no one died or got hurt*...' always make me laugh.
> 
> Of course people got hurt and died! We drove to my dad's home town for a competition recently and he told me about three or four friends of his who died on this one stretch of road. One flew threw the windscreen and hit a tree.
> 
> You didn't know every person and every kid - People get hurt and die everywhere, every year, wether they are wrapped in cotton wool or not. You who don't wear helmets say that 'My time will come and no helmet will save me when my time is up' - Did those adults and kids back then NOT have a time? Of course they did - But death was accepted as inevitable and a way of life back then, which was the ONLY difference. Nowadays we have scientists and countless people who try and make our lives longer and death harder to come by. Again, that is the only difference.
> 
> Indyhorse - You mentioned that no non-helmet wearer has pushed their view on others - I sure feel like i'm being told i'm not tough and couldn't possibly be a real cowboy/cowgirl if I wear a helmet!


I like this.


----------



## Northern

To whoever asked me why I asked the unhelmeted for their reason(s), since I know that safety is the only reason_ to_ wear one: I was interested in hearing the reason(s)/mindset (esp. with teachers of safety who go helmetless) because the workings of the human mind fascinate me (at least on some subjects). By the same token, I'd love to hear from surfers who've already had one limb bitten off by a shark why they keep surfing.


----------



## Speed Racer

Barry, seatbelt use is also mandatory in the U.S. It was voluntary until about 15 years ago, and then became law. 

I've always worn one anyway, but I did think it was ludicrous that the Federal government had to pass a _law_ to try to keep people safe from themselves. :-x

I'm more in the way of thinking as Thomas Jefferson did, that _less_ government is better. He thought that states governing themselves was the best way to go, with the Federal government being little more than a figurehead under which the states could be a cohesive republic. 

Sadly, we're seeing the Federal government taking over what should be states' rights to choose, and the stupid people are _letting_ them! 

When we forget that with freedom comes responsibility for ourselves and our own actions, we become nothing more than sheep being led to the slaughter.

"Take care of me!" we baaaaa, as we give up more and more of our rights. Ugh....


----------



## xxBarry Godden

James

Access in Gt Britain to the trails is usually via the country lanes which are narrow and shared with vehicular traffic. The road surface is usually tarmac. The horses have to become acclimatised to mixing with cars and other scary things. Spooking by horses at cars, dogs, tractors etc is common. The injuries occur when the rider hits the road surface .

The surface in the jumping arenas is usually sand but of course the stresses are much greater. Nowadays the riders mostly wear body protectors as well as hard hats. 

Very few British riders ride Western and when they do, they nowadays have to wear a hard hat under the Western Hat - for insurance and permit purposes. 

Remember the Island of Great Britain on which some 60 million people live is only the size of Wyoming, located on the latitude of Labrador on the edge of the Atlantic Ocean. The UK is a tiny, wet and windy, overcrowded little island.

Barry


----------



## Smarby

Always.

Though there have been a couple of occassions where i've ridden him in bareback from the field and haven't worn a helmet. Apart from that, i always wear one.


----------



## jamesqf

Barry Godden said:


> The UK is a tiny, wet and windy, overcrowded little island.


But still manages to hold some of my favorite places: the Ridgeway Path, Castlerigg, the Great Glen...



> Very few British riders ride Western...


Perhaps it's the perspective of distance, but I don't think of the sort of riding my friends do as really "Western", either. That to me seems to mean the heavy tooled saddles & cowboy gear, rodeo events (or perhaps a roundup, if you're a real cowperson), etc, and I'd be about as likely to wear a cowboy hat as a helmet


----------



## StormyBlues

I agree with Wild_Spot in the fact that I am being called a whimp, but I sure would like to see you cowboys do what we do.... it's just as hard as rounding up a herd of cattle.

To the poster who said their helmet "bounced off" when they fell. What would have happened if your helmet wasn't there? It would have been your head that had taken all of that impact. If the impact was great enough to make your helmet come off, don't you think it would have done horrible things to your head? 

I also agree that we have become too soft. My mom let us grow up and if we made the decision to not wear a helmet and pads on our bikes, skateboards, etc, we had to suffer the consequences of getting hurt. But she will not let me get on a horse without a helmet. Why? a horse has a brain.


----------



## Marecare

Northern said:


> I've often wondered why the helmetless are so; do tell!



I would turn the question around and ask you why you do not wear ...

Protection vest
Knee pads
Shoulder pads
Wrist supports
Back brace
Chin guard
Heavy gloves
Chaps for leg protection
Elbow guards
Ankle supports?


----------



## RawhideKid

Some of you obviously don't get it yet...

Here are a couple pictures for you to see the simplicity, yet solid character and style of something that aint gonna change...EVER! 

A little "show & tell" for those who are a little slow. 























What part of that don't you understand? My Dad still has his hat laying on his chest where we laid him. The crowning glory of a man who stood by his convictions to the end....and did the cowboy community proad. If you wanna change these pictures (and lives) with helmets...yooos treading on thin ice! :wink:

This is why I don't wear a helmet.


----------



## wild_spot

^ Rawhidekid, I have NO issue with your choice not to wear a helmet. I do have an issue with your continued insinutation that those who do couldn't possibly be a cowboy and couldn't possibly understand! It is ridiculous. I also have an issue with you calling thos who don't agree with you 'slow'. I am not slow, and I will never agree with you on this point. If you think the defining characteristic of a cowboy is his hat, as opposed to his personality, his skills, his character, then you don't understand the true nature of a cowboy at all.


----------



## RawhideKid

Well, you are proving to be slow by not getting my point. THIS is why I don't wear a helmet. Hello! read my lips! Actually I posted the pictures because you obviously can't read my lips. :lol: I never called anyone slow who doesn't agree with me. I said for those who are slow to see WHY I DON"T WEAR A HELMET here's some pictures.

In my way of understanding, this is true blue cowboy tradition. What part of that don't you understand? It would be like trying to change someone's detailed religious beliefs. 'taint gonna happen...not wit me. :wink:

If you see things in a different way...so be it. But there will always be a group who hold to certain traditions which are befitting to their character and lifestyle.


----------



## wild_spot

> Well, you are proving to be slow by not getting my point.


And vice versa.

'Tradition' is a banner under which many outdated, preposterous and sometimes downright cruel practices are allowed to continue. The majority of cowboys don't wear a hat because it is tradition - They wear it because it is practical for what they do, it provides shade, protection from rain, etc. My main point is this:



> If you think the defining characteristic of a cowboy is his hat, as opposed to his personality, his skills, his character, then you don't understand the true nature of a cowboy at all.


I understand why you wear a helmet - you want to look like a cowboy - But that is not what I have a problem with. If you haven't understood my point yet then I fear it is not I who is slow.


----------



## MacabreMikolaj

I don't remember if I posted here, but I have very definitive reasons.

1. I am an overheater and our summers are brutal. I have passed out and fallen from my horse due to wearing a helmet outside in 40 degree heat. I realize they make good helmets with proper ventilation but it does not matter - on days that hot, I survive by wearing a wet bandana. And the winter, we have a whole new problem - it is borderline physically impossible to wear a helmet and not get frost bite when you're riding in -40 weather.

I own a helmet. I wear it when I am breaking young horses or riding strange horses. I will not wear it riding Zierra. I have a BETTER chance of taking a header down a flight of stairs then I do of falling off Zierra - so why don't we wear helmets 24/7? For those preaching safety, most people do things on a daily basis that seem harmess but have potential for enormous injury. You cannot bubble wrap the world.

I am just as useless to my family is I fall and break my neck, so wheres my protection from that? Trying to use that argument is just ridiculous, because then I can just ask you why you ride at all. Every time you mount you're risking severe injury and there are TONS of things that can happen to you that could make you a burden on others even wearing a helmet.

As was mentioned, it's my life and my choice. But any argument you want to pose about how idiotic people are about not wearing helmets, I can shoot right back at you. The world is full of dangerous things, so it makes JUST as much sense to me to walk through life wearing a bullet proof vet "just in case" as it does wearing a stifling helmet that makes me sick to my stomach and puts me at MORE risk of falling off when I'm riding an 11 year old I've had since birth and know like the back of my hand.


----------



## kevinshorses

wild_spot said:


> If you think the defining characteristic of a cowboy is his hat, as opposed to his personality, his skills, his character, then you don't understand the true nature of a cowboy at all.


I may not wear a helmet but THAT I can agree with. 

Rawhide kid: I know many fine cowboys and horsemen that don't choose to wear a cowboy hat. I think you are putting far more importance on headgear than is warranted. Too many weekend trail riders like to talk big about being a cowboy but never get closer to a cow than a hamburger and ride around in K Mart cowboy hats and plastic boots. Cowboy is not a hobby for me it's an occupation and like any occupation there are risks and safety gear to reduce those risks. I am starting to see the wisdom in wearing a helmet for the first few rides on a colt and I will have helmets for my kids to wear when they ride with me. It doesn't mean that I don't honor the traditions of my predecessors. I don't ride in sidepulls or bitless bridles. I won't buy a plastic and nylon saddle and I try to use traditional training methods. That is far more important to me than what is on my head.


----------



## ptvintage

Interesting posts, although I would like to point out something-

Some posters have been saying that people have been getting "soft" over the last 100 years, and give the use of helmets as an example. People may be getting "soft" in your opinion, but it's actually human advancement. Looking over data from the last 100 years, the increase in life expectancy is dramatic. All these preventative measures that you are strongly against do work. I'm am aware that helmets are not the primary reason for this, but it shows that when people take care of themselves through modern medicine and preventative measures they do live longer. 

You may not have grown up using helmets, but you also didn't grow up using cell phones. Just like cell phones, helmets are a technology designed to improve lives. 

I also agree with wild_spot about the tone of the some of the posters...


----------



## RawhideKid

wild_spot said:


> And vice versa.
> 
> 'Tradition' is a banner under which many outdated, preposterous and sometimes downright cruel practices are allowed to continue. The majority of cowboys don't wear a hat because it is tradition - They wear it because it is practical for what they do, it provides shade, protection from rain, etc. My main point is this:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand why you wear a helmet - you want to look like a cowboy - But that is not what I have a problem with. If you haven't understood my point yet then I fear it is not I who is slow.


I believe I touched on all those points in past posts. My hat I find to be quite sufficient protection and looks good, to boot. It is also an age old traditional look and fell which I have grown to understand and eccept as befitting the cowboy character. 

Actually all of the cowboy clothes do indeed have a practical use, from snap shirts to chaps, etc. 

The original question was "why don't you wear a helmet?" I've been quite clear as to why I don't. But that seems to really irk the ones who choose to. If you're comforable wearing a helmet....carry on. I'm comfortable NOT. For me, it's against the traditional garb and character of the old west and the look and character and protection I prefer.

Cell phones "improve lives"? Maybe for some...in some ways. But they've also made a bunch of rude behaviour with people answering them and texting on them right in the middle of live conversations and in the presense of company.

If I had any say in it we would be back to horse and buggy and the old Pony Express. You don't need technology to improve lives. You just need people with right hearts and sound minds....and a sound horse to ride. :wink:

Really, the thrust of the helmet wearers is to try and get us to wear one. We should start another thread asking, "why does it so bother you that some don't wear a helmet?" You don't hear a sincere concern in their posts. Just anger and disgust. No respect for our choice.


----------



## Northern

*I could've been more to the point & asked...*

If you died/became a vegetable/ became paraplegic from a horse-related accident, and a helmet would've prevented your death/bodily damage, would you regret that you didn't wear a helmet on that fateful day?


----------



## ridergirl23

RawhideKid said:


> Cell phones "improve lives"? Maybe for some...in some ways. But they've also made a bunch of rude behaviour with people answering them and texting on them right in the middle of live conversations and in the presense of company.
> 
> If I had any say in it we would be back to horse and buggy and the old Pony Express. You don't need technology to improve lives. You just need people with right hearts and sound minds....and a sound horse to ride. :wink:
> 
> .


 so... your saying, all this cancer research, and new medical technologies HASNT improved thousands of peoples lives? because it sure has. 
technology isnt just electronics, its wagons, axes, heck, anything people have made to help or make something easier. one thing i can promise is the world will never be rid of people without right hearts, or sound minds :wink:


----------



## RawhideKid

I'll continue being true to what I was raised and came to understand and love as cowboy tradition and western life-style no matter what the risks or challenges. 

Let me tell you a little story about "fateful days". 28 years ago I was in a jail cell going through DTs...withdrawals from alcohol, and in the midst of this nightmare with creatures coming out of the walls after me...I dove off the top bunk onto the cement floor THREE times trying to kill myself before these creatures did. Straight down with hands behind my back. Got up twice and did it again and again, until the guards heard the noise and came in to see what was happening.

To make a long story short, I had a sore neck, got some stitches on the top of my head and lived to tell of God's wonderful mercy. 

You see, they never provided helmets in jail....and because God had a plan for me, He miraculously intervened and cushioned my falls. Now read my signature for the REST of the story! 

I think I'll stick with my hat and a genuine trust in God...thank you very much.


----------



## ridergirl23

RawhideKid said:


> I'll continue being true to what I was raised and came to understand and love as cowboy tradition and western life-style no matter what the risks or challenges.
> 
> Let me tell you a little story about "fateful days". 28 years ago I was in a jail cell going through DTs...withdrawals from alcohol, and in the midst of this nightmare with creatures coming out of the walls after me...I dove off the top bunk onto the cement floor THREE times trying to kill myself before these creatures did. Straight down with hands behind my back. Got up twice and did it again and again, until the guards heard the noise and came in to see what was happening.
> 
> To make a long story short, I had a sore neck, got some stitches on the top of my head and lived to tell of God's wonderful mercy.
> 
> You see, they never provided helmets in jail....and because God had a plan for me, He miraculously intervened and cushioned my falls. Now read my signature for the REST of the story!
> 
> I think I'll stick with my hat and a genuine trust in God...thank you very much.


 but..... you never answered my question. personally, i dont have a problem with you not wearing a helmet, its your own choice. but... you never answered my question. or anyone elses for that matter.


----------



## kevinshorses

RawhideKid said:


> My hat I find to be quite sufficient protection and looks good, to boot. It is also an age old traditional look and fell which I have grown to understand and eccept as befitting the cowboy character.


I have to comment on this specifically. Since when does the cowboy look include a cut-off jean jacket, carpenter jeans and a quite silly hat. I'm sorry to break this to you but you have zero cowboy cred. I guess you have every right to extoll what you _believe_ to be the virtues of cowboys but I suspect that you have little first hand knowledge of what you are talking about. It's not all about John Wayne and riding off into the sunset. But go ahead and ride without a helmet.


----------



## Tennessee

RawhideKid said:


> I believe I touched on all those points in past posts. My hat I find to be quite sufficient protection and looks good, to boot. It is also an age old traditional look and fell which I have grown to understand and eccept as befitting the cowboy character.
> 
> The original question was "why don't you wear a helmet?" I've been quite clear as to why I don't. But that seems to really irk the ones who choose to. If you're comforable wearing a helmet....carry on. I'm comfortable NOT. For me, it's against the traditional garb and character of the old west and the look and character and protection I prefer.



So, to you, being a cowboy is all about the clothes and the fact that you think you are the toughest thing on the face of the Earth? 

What about the values and morals that a real cowboy holds dear to him? Honesty? Chivalry? The true connection between man and horse?

Anybody can get on a pokey old horse, throw on some "cowboy" clothes and a cowboy hat and call themselves a cowboy. You agree? 

Look dude. I am a sixteen year old girl and I'm more of a cowboy than you are. I ride Western. I live on a farm. We have cows (well..one. lol. ). I barrel race and compete in cutting and trail riding, and I am one **** though girl, but that does not give me a right to tell other people how wimpy they are because they don't wear a helmet. 

Clothes, a large ego, a and prideful attitude does not make you a cowboy.


----------



## farley

Tennessee you are a smart kid! i give you a brownie point for that one. =)


----------



## RawhideKid

kevinshorses said:


> I have to comment on this specifically. Since when does the cowboy look include a cut-off jean jacket, carpenter jeans and a quite silly hat. I'm sorry to break this to you but you have zero cowboy cred. I guess you have every right to extoll what you _believe_ to be the virtues of cowboys but I suspect that you have little first hand knowledge of what you are talking about. It's not all about John Wayne and riding off into the sunset. But go ahead and ride without a helmet.


Just look at the "sidewinders" (snakes) getting personal when all we try to do is answer a simple question. 

There are many variations even in western dress, but the case in point is why we don't wear a helmet. To me it is against the style and practicalilty I've known and grown to accept as befitting the western life-style and horse riding. I'm probably more passionate about NOT wearing a helmet, than people are about wearing one. Why? Because that's what cowboy hats were made for. Simple.

I got no problem with people choosing to wear a helmet. Today I was riding with a mother and daughter who both wore helmets. I was tempted to tell her of the fun we were having on this forum this morning about helmets, but I couldn't quite see how to bring it up without her feeling uncomfortable about wearing her helmet, or that I was against it. So I left it alone. I have more respect than that...as to where someone is at in their comfort level or areas of fears. Far be it from me to push someone beyond their comfort zone.

But they weren't bothered by me wearing a cowboy hat, nor me bothered by them. We had a great time. Her little 10 year old daughter rode bare back with us through the bush, up steep hills, down slopes, galloped, got spooked by a deer, etc., and we all stuck to our horses just fine.

No, ridergirl23, I'll let fearful imaginations change the way you do things. Me, I'll be governed by my own preferances of style, practicality and sense of security. My security comes from a little higher than a hat or helmet.

People like us who live close to the edge, and live out our passions and dreams...in the face of danger and ridicule always did bother the careful and calculating. Nothing new.


----------



## ridergirl23

fearful imaginations? Really? Because I don't wear a helmet because of 'fearful imaginations' I wear one because honestly, I would like to live a long time, and I don't want to crush my family by dying because I was trying something stupid while riding, that's my choice and I'm not forcing it on you, but you can't tell me I am governed by fearful imaginations. I think you judge people way to strongly based on what they wear on their head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RawhideKid

Tennessee said:


> So, to you, being a cowboy is all about the clothes and the fact that you think you are the toughest thing on the face of the Earth?
> 
> What about the values and morals that a real cowboy holds dear to him? Honesty? Chivalry? The true connection between man and horse?
> 
> Anybody can get on a pokey old horse, throw on some "cowboy" clothes and a cowboy hat and call themselves a cowboy. You agree?
> 
> Look dude. I am a sixteen year old girl and I'm more of a cowboy than you are. I ride Western. I live on a farm. We have cows (well..one. lol. ). I barrel race and compete in cutting and trail riding, and I am one **** though girl, but that does not give me a right to tell other people how wimpy they are because they don't wear a helmet.
> 
> Clothes, a large ego, a and prideful attitude does not make you a cowboy.


Careful, girly, you're tripping over your words. Gonna need a helmet to talk. Slow down and you might realize that I have never called anyone down for wearing a helmet, I just answered the question as to why I don't. My every post has been in referance to MY preferances, MY likes and dislikes, My perspectives on style and tradition....and I have every right to those preferances. 

If you look close...I have always started or ended with "to me"...."this is MY understanding" ...this is the image and character and practice which I see as befitting the activity of riding horses and the western lifestyle. For me...this is being true to myself, and no amount of ridicule or snide remarks will ever change that.


----------



## kevinshorses

RawhideKid said:


> Just look at the "sidewinders" (snakes) getting personal when all we try to do is answer a simple question.


I may be a snake but, you sir are a wanna-be.


----------



## RawhideKid

ridergirl23 said:


> fearful imaginations? Really? Because I don't wear a helmet because of 'fearful imaginations' I wear one because honestly, I would like to live a long time, and I don't want to crush my family by dying because I was trying something stupid while riding, that's my choice and I'm not forcing it on you, but you can't tell me I am governed by fearful imaginations. I think you judge people way to strongly based on what they wear on their head.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, the fact is...it would never have had to go this far if the helmet wearers just respected us who choose not to...for our reasons. Afterall, that was the original question.

I've heard all of your all's reasonings for wearing a helmet...and guess what! I'll be wearing my hat as per usual...just as happy and snappy as ever....for deep and meaningful reasons of my own.


----------



## ridergirl23

I couldn't care less if you wore a helmet or not! Geez, do you read posts? All I've commented on are the things you've said that just make you sound ridiculous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RawhideKid

kevinshorses said:


> I may be a snake but, you sir are a wanna-be.


No, sir, I'm an IS-be. I know exactly where I am at with horses and "cowboy" experience. I respect highly the true earth and wind weathered cowboys of old and of today. I have no unreal visions of grandeur or illusions of any kind. I wear a hat as staying true to my heritage, and out of respect and love for that specific style. To me...wearing a cowboy hat goes with riding horses, Simple. Has nothing to do with expertise, experience...or the lack thereof. I love wearing a hat, Boom. Case closed. 

Your confused. I don't know, maybe your hat is too tight.


----------



## ridergirl23

a hat doesnt make a cowboy. there are so many stereotypes in this world.


----------



## kevinshorses

RawhideKid said:


> I have no unreal visions of grandeur or illusions of any kind.


 
You best read your previous post then "pardner"! I "reckon" you gots yourself a bit of a de-lusion of what cowboys really are.


----------



## RawhideKid

This cowboy wears one. And not RATHER than a helmet. I'd wear one even if there were no helmets! :lol:


----------



## RawhideKid

kevinshorses said:


> You best read your previous post then "pardner"! I "reckon" you gots yourself a bit of a de-lusion of what cowboys really are.


Your hats still obvously too tight. All the attributes and evidences of a cowboy isn't the issue. It is "why some of us do not wear helmets". Read my posts again and you will see why I don't. But try not to let it hinder a good night's sleep. :wink:


----------



## kevinshorses

RawhideKid said:


> This cowboy wears one. And not RATHER than a helmet. I'd wear one even if there were no helmets! :lol:


I'm sorry but I have to be blunt. *You are not a cowboy!*If you were to show up anywhere real cowboys gather and started spouting your "respect of traditions" BS you would be laughed out of town. You wouldn't make a boil on a cowboy's hindquarters.


----------



## Becca93

The way I see it - If i was to fall off tomorrow, I would be better off wearing a helmet. So on goes the helmet.

I like my head, and my brain function. Its up to me to protect it


----------



## RawhideKid

Here...you can smack this cheek too.  But I will still be wearing a cowboy hat when I ride. No, you don't have to call it being a "cowboy". Sounds kind of juvenile anyway. I'm just a feller who loves horses, the western lifestyle and the country way of life. It's in my blood from my Dad's side, and also in my heart from a little Higher, as well.

No, I probably couldn't handle being around cowpokes for too long...with all the swearing, smoking and stuff going on. But I respect them just the same. I enjoy the lifestyle my own way, with my own horses, and with my own choice of friends. *But don't touch my hat! No, no, not good! :wink:* You don't wanna be doin that.

Anyway, PARD, get that hat loosened and read the posts over again. You should see that views were simply expressed as to why some of us don't wear helmets.


----------



## RawhideKid

Becca93 said:


> The way I see it - If i was to fall off tomorrow, I would be better off wearing a helmet. So on goes the helmet.
> 
> I like my head, and my brain function. Its up to me to protect it


Me, I don't see it that way. I find my hat, my connection with my horse, riding ability, and the good Lord above...to be all the protection I need. Besides....wearing a hat just FEELS good....feels right. For me it's part of the whole picture.


----------



## ridergirl23

RawhideKid said:


> Me, I don't see it that way. I find my hat, my connection with my horse, riding ability, and the good Lord above...to be all the protection I need. Besides....wearing a hat just FEELS good....feels right. For me it's part of the whole picture.


 see, with lots of people its not like that. im a dressage rider, a helmet or tophat is the picture, but i dont want to limit myself to the picture. as for the connection with my horse... all the people ive heard preach about that have had a nice connection with the ground too after their horse saw a scary thing. dont get me wrong, i think bonding/being the leader with my horse is important, but not everyone has time to do that, this weekend im going to a colt breaking clinic, im riding in it on a horse named angel...shesnever been handled except for now. she has lived in the mountains all her life. ive never even seen her. someone else is trailering her to the clinic, im just driving there, saddling her up, and hopping aboard, see what i mean?

i think the problem is you make it sound like you dont need a helmet becaause you have a bond with your horse, or, your a good rider. thats kinda what makes me tick. haha


----------



## wild_spot

> People like us who live close to the edge, and live out our passions and dreams...in the face of danger and ridicule always did bother the careful and calculating. Nothing new.


Firstly - I honest to god snorted with laughter when I read this.

Secondly - THIS is why people are getting arked up - Not your choice regarding wearing a helmet or a hat, but this holier than thou, I live on the edge, you don't, tripe.

I would bet you I have done more dangerous things on my horses in my 20 years of life than you have in however long you have lived. Have you been on your horse with a bull under his belly charging, thanking god that it didn't have horns or your horse would be dead? Have you galloped headlong, flat chat down a steep hill full or logs, long grass, rabbit holes and logs to stop a mob of sheep escaping into the next paddock? Have you hung off your horses side at a flat gallop to pick up a tennis ball off the ground? Have you vaulted on to your horse from the ground while he takes off into a full sprint? I have. I live out my passions and dreams fully. I could never be referred to as careful and calculating by those who know me. Yet you seem to think that because I have a different view to you and choose to voice it, I am.


----------



## Becca93

RawhideKid said:


> Me, I don't see it that way. I find my hat, my connection with my horse, riding ability, and the good Lord above...to be all the protection I need. Besides....wearing a hat just FEELS good....feels right. For me it's part of the whole picture.


Thats nice. 

Wearing a helmet FEELS good too. When I hit the ground.

To each his own.


----------



## PaintsPwn

Becca - it didn't feel good when my head it the ground in a helmet last time. Granted, I wouldn't have felt -anything- had I not been wearing it.

I'll wear a helmet in a few occasions - New horse. Jumping. Trail riding. Or when 'That Little Voice' tells me too. There's been many a time I've put my foot in that stirrup, only to take it out and get my helmet. I've needed it every single time.

Why don't I? Because it's hot and itchy. I have an Aegis by Devon Aire - it's a very comfortable helmet in general, but when it's 90 degrees and the suns beating down on you and your black helmet, it's miserable.


----------



## StormyBlues

So, the fact that I adore my horses, live on an 85 acre farm, and ride with all the passion in my heart makes me a cowboy? No. I respect real cowboys. A real cowboy from my perspective is a man who knows how to ride and train horses, are chivilrous, own land, raise cattle or crops to support a family, and know how to respect others riding. I know they wouldn't say that anyone who jumps in a feild is an eventer. They know how much work it takes, just like I know how much work a real cowboy does. In the skateboarding world we call people "posers." they walk the walk, talk the talk, but can't deliver the goods.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nrhareiner

RawhideKid said:


> No, I probably couldn't handle being around cowpokes for too long...with all the swearing, smoking and stuff going on.


Now here is a stereotype of I have ever seen one.


----------



## RawhideKid

Obviously the purpose and intent of the original thread question was meant to make us NON-helmet adherents to finally say, "gee, I guess I don't have any valid reason for not wearing a helmet, so I guess I better start".

The only answer other answer the helmet weraers are happy with is, "I don't wear one, but gee, I guess I should". 

Or maybe they are just looking for approval from such individuals like Kevinshorses, who wears a hat but supports helmet wearers and insults us who don't...for our various reasons.

Then....the saddest thing, is they probably hope you'll fall on yer head to prove them right. 

Meanwhile, I'm riding on down the trail with hat on...looking and feeling like the western rider I am....just as happy as all get out! :lol:


----------



## wild_spot

Just like I'm riding on down the trail with my helmet on, happy enough in myself to not care what I look like or think my worth as a rider has anything to do with what is on my head 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## RawhideKid

nrhareiner said:


> Now here is a stereotype of I have ever seen one.


My point exactly. I don't have to fall into any certain stereotype to wear a hat instead of a helmet. There are all kinds of "cowboys", from the real ranchers and cattle workers to rodeo riders, the good, the bad and the ugly...but I stand alone in my beliefs and convictions, my personality and ways, my reasons and dreams for riding....and wearing a cowboy hat instead of a helmet is just as obvious and natural as the reason those other "cowboys" wear cowboy hats. 

And many of them would laugh at me if I asked them if they think they should wear a helmet. Many of them would respond to this thread with a snarkle and a snort and say, "whatever! If yu wanna wear a helmet, go for it. Don't bug my face about it."


----------



## RawhideKid

wild_spot said:


> Just like I'm riding on down the trail with my helmet on, happy enough in myself to not care what I look like or think my worth as a rider has anything to do with what is on my head
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good for you. So what's the problem? You stay true to your heart and convictions, I'll certainly stay true to mine. Everyone's happy. "Wagon train. Move out!" :lol:


----------



## wild_spot

*sigh* I explained the problem numerous times and clearly stated it had nothing to do with you not wearing a helmet. 

I'm done and good night 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xxBarry Godden

James,
There is indeed some fantastic scenery and miles away from the city centres some
fabulous riding. 
I suggest you add the Brecon Beacons,the Cambrian Mountains, the South Downs Way and the Border regions of Northumberland and the Scottish Borders to your list.

Barry


----------



## RawhideKid

Northern said:


> I've often wondered why the helmetless are so; do tell!


Well, I guess now you know, hey. No more wonderment. You see, we are "helmetless" because when our hats are on...you can't get a helmet on at the same time. :shock:

Don't mess with our hats. Yer treading on sacred ground! :wink: Tha'd be the "ground" they are covering.


----------



## Trails

I wear a helmet every time I ride. You've seen my posts so you know I put a lot of miles under my horses's hooves and spend a lot of time on the trail. Most of the people I ride with choose not to do the helmet thing. 

So Why do I wear the brain bucket? I'm a NARHA (google it) instructor and I make all of my kiddos wear one if they want to ride. No helmet, no horse. I figure that if I'm telling them to wear one then by golly I'd better do the same as well.

I haven't come off (yet) and fortunately have never found out just how protective a helmet can be. I hope to never know. 

I find the whole helmet / cowboy hat argument silly really. It's a free country last time I checked, so do what you will and accept the consequences for your actions. 

BTW - Cowboy hats keep the sun off your neck SOOOO much better than a helmet.


----------



## Trinity

Ive never ridden with a helmet,, even when I was young and just starting to ride. Dont know why.. I just dont like them. The only time I ride with a helmet is at work, and its a different kind of helmet lol.


----------



## mls

StormyBlues said:


> I agree with Wild_Spot in the fact that I am being called a whimp, but I sure would like to see you cowboys do what we do.... it's just as hard as rounding up a herd of cattle.


I need to comment on this -

Does the jump or water hazard move? Duck under trees? Go through footing you aren't sure is safe? How often has the jump turned on you and chased you? Separated into two groups at full speed? Run through a fence into a state forest?

Working cattle is very dangerous and unpredictable. I am not calling you a wimp by any means - just giving you some additional information.

When I jump - I wear a helmet. When I work cattle, I do not. I only wear a hat when it's required by show rules.


----------



## nrhareiner

RawhideKid said:


> My point exactly. I don't have to fall into any certain stereotype to wear a hat instead of a helmet. There are all kinds of "cowboys", from the real ranchers and cattle workers to rodeo riders, the good, the bad and the ugly...but I stand alone in my beliefs and convictions, my personality and ways, my reasons and dreams for riding....and wearing a cowboy hat instead of a helmet is just as obvious and natural as the reason those other "cowboys" wear cowboy hats.


You have stated many times you ware a cowboy hat b/c it is what cowboys do. B/C YOU are a cowboy. I call B/S when I see it. I have no problems with not using a helmet. I do not use one either. I have cow horses. I ACTUALLY case cattle. Yet I do not see the need for a cowboy hat to do so. I use one when I am showing B/C it is the rules. If I could show with out one I would. 

You say you do not fall into a stereotype however you are the one saying that to be a cowboy and live the cowboy life that you need a cowboy hat. I say again B/S. I know ALOT of real cowboys who once they go in from work take off their hats and do not put them back on until it is time to work and only use one B/C is keeps the sun and rain off their head and neck. Not b/c they are a cowboy or it looks cool. 

If your cowboy boots have never kicked **** or your cowboy hat has never been stepped on by a cow then you are NOT a cowboy


----------



## nrhareiner

RawhideKid said:


> Well, I guess now you know, hey. No more wonderment. You see, we are "helmetless" because when our hats are on...you can't get a helmet on at the same time. :shock:
> 
> Don't mess with our hats. Yer treading on sacred ground! :wink: Tha'd be the "ground" they are covering.



Again you put those of us who do not use helmets into a stereotype. I do not use a helmet. Have never and probable never will. I chase cows and even do a bit of roping. Yet I do not ware a cowboy hat except when required by show regulations. So again you are putting the helmetless into a category of "I do not use a helmet b/c I would not be able to ware my cowboy hat."

Again not true. I prefer to ride the way God made me. NO hat at all.


----------



## Speed Racer

The word _poseur_ comes to mind.....

Those who live a certain lifestyle don't feel a need to trumpet it. 

Poseurs on the other hand, just seem to have a burning desire to shove it in everyone's faces.

I know on what side my opinion falls.


----------



## Tennessee

nrhareiner said:


> If your cowboy boots have never kicked **** or your cowboy hat has never been stepped on by a cow then you are NOT a cowboy




Yes! I agree with that.


----------



## Mingiz

I have been riding 30+ years. I have never worn a helmet. My perference. Probably will never wear one. I own a few Cowboy hats and rarely wear them. I usually ride in a ball cap...I think it's an individuals decision if they want to wear a helmet or not... 


Oh and if you think wearing a cowboy hat makes you a cowboy...think again.....:wink:


----------



## Speed Racer

I have riding helmets, ball caps, and several cowboy hats. I've ridden in all of them.

_No_ article of clothing or headgear defines someone. If _they_ think it does, then they have more problems than random people on a BB can help with! :wink:


----------



## kevinshorses

RawhideKid said:


> There are all kinds of "cowboys", from the real ranchers and cattle workers to rodeo riders, the good, the bad and the ugly.


And the pretenders like you.


----------



## RawhideKid

Here's a little John Wayne for Kevinsdhorses, and a little "chivalry" for Riderrgirl23....

I've been accused of being a "cowboy" when I never even had a cowboy hat on. I was on a city transit bus one time in my painter garb for work and there were some disrespectful thugs swearing like all get out in their conversations with each other. I said out loud to them, "hey, there happens to be ladies present. You should watch your language!" They repied with, "No, problem, cowboy."

Isn't that ironic!? When's the last time you seen someone with the country gaul and guts to correct these modern day thugs? No, being a "cowboy" comes form the heart. A hard workin man, with honesty and integrity, and stands his roots and his convictions. 

Wearing a hat is just icing on the cake. And I find a cake is lifeless and dry without icing! And you can bet yer bottom dollar...I'll be having my cake and eating it too! :lol: There's a little Bob Dylan just for good measure.

Besides, wearing a hat just makes my ride all that much SWEETER!!!!

While I'm at it....don't be messin with my horse, lessin yu want me to turn into Clint Eastwood as well! :wink: Unless of course yer prepared to appologize to em.

FYI nrhareiner, there is horse and cow manure on my boots pretty much all the time. And once I had to rescue a steer who had his horns stuck in between the rails of a steel gait laying on the ground. The more he struggled....the more he just pinned himself down with his feet. It was an impossible situation! Had I not been there and scrambled for an answer...he could have died on the spot...slowly. A lady had called me over to this situation. It looked hopeless. I just slowly went up to it, and very carefully took a piece of binder twine and looped it around the end of one of his horns and pulled it SLOWLY past one of the rails it was stuck behind....HOPING he would then struggle just enough to free his other horn. Sure enough he did...and got free. Can't remember if I was wearing my hat at the time or not. I was too busy being a....cowboy? no, just a caring and courageous person. 

Hear's tippin my hat to yu. Later dudes! 

BTW Kevinhorses, there is nothing wrong with being a "wannabe". I used to WANNA BE a real painter. Now I'm one of the best painters this side a the Pecos and the Rio Grande and north as far as the Rockies! Ha! I met a REAL painter at a Bible study and he quit his present job and came to work for me. God has His wonderful ways with us "wannabas"!

Meanwhile back at the Ranch! :wink:


----------



## Tennessee

RawhideKid said:


> Here's a little John Wayne for Kevinsdhorses, and a little "chivalry" for Riderrgirl23....
> 
> I've been accused of being a "cowboy" when I never even had a cowboy hat on. I was on a city transit bus one time in my painter garb for work and there were some disrespectful thugs swearing like all get out in their conversations with each other. I said out loud to them, "hey, there happens to be ladies present. You should watch your language!" They repied with, "No, problem, cowboy."
> 
> BTW Kevinhorses, there is nothing wrong with being a "wannabe". I used to WANNA BE a real painter. Now I'm one of the best painters this side a the Pecos and the Rio Grande and north as far as the Rockies! Ha! I met a REAL painter at a Bible study and he quit his present job and came to work for me. God has His wonderful ways with us "wannabas"!



You think you're hot ****, don't ya? 

I just can't quite understand why you insist on continuously trying to prove yourself. You say that you know you are this true cowboy, yet if anybody says anything to you, you come back with the same redundant remarks. If you are who you say you are, and you really don't care what people think, why do you keep trying to prove yourself to us?


----------



## shaker

Barry Godden said:


> Shaker
> Please read it again. otherwise I shall have to think of re-writing it.
> I am actually applauding the American insistence on personal freedom - most of we Europeans have lost out to intrusive Governmental control first to British National Government then to European Union Government - (translate into State and Federal). Laws are imposed on we Brits by foreigners - or fellow Europeans.
> We Brits, especially the English living in Wales, have little choice in the matter.
> 
> Perhaps I was trying to be too clever when I wrote the article. Even my wife said the wording was obtuse.
> 
> Barry G
> 
> Ps When riding English I wear a hard hat. From time to time I ride Western, then I don't. In Britain there is no law against riding without a protective hat - but there are some significant financial implications if, hatless, you fall off and bang your head. Similarly if you crash the car when not wearing a seat belt (which is against the law), you'll lose compensation for personal injury.


 
It's all good, I was not pointing at you or just Europe. We have people in the States that don't value freedom like they should. Way too many people are worried about trying to stay breathing until they are 100 years old, and forget to live life on the way.

Life is a journey not a destination. 

Anybody that wants to wear a helmet go for it, it shows who you are and just how smart you are. But don't try to push your brains on others, that's where I stand. Besides those of us not wearing helmets are obviously exceptionally hard headed. :lol:


----------



## shaker

For the off topic argument, I am not a cowboy. There has not been a real cowboy around for a couple generations now.

However there is nothing wrong with posing as one.


----------



## kevinshorses

If by painter you mean an artist then I understand your viewpoint and I won't try to change your romantic view.


----------



## mls

shaker said:


> There has not been a real cowboy around for a couple generations now.


Define real.

I know a lot of folks who still make their living on the backs of a horse. Training horses, working cattle.

Just because the house has running water doesn't mean they are less of a cowboy.


----------



## kevinshorses

shaker said:


> For the off topic argument, I am not a cowboy. There has not been a real cowboy around for a couple generations now.
> 
> However there is nothing wrong with posing as one.


You're wrong there. I know several people that support themselves and thier families by being a cowboy. Not the rodeo kind but the real kind. They help them calve and doctor them when they are sick. They brand and tag and vaccinate them just like it was done 100 years ago. I will spend the summer in a primitive camp in the mountains taking care of cattle the same way my grandfather did 70 years ago. Cowboys are not even all that rare but they are often hard to see from the freeway.


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

^^ 
I met a couple of real cowboys a couple of summers ago when camping in the MT mountains with our horses. We had the great pleasure to work beside them for a day or two. They lived up in the primitive camps on the mountain all summer long and did all the traditional cowboy things.


----------



## BrewCrew

....mmmm....cowboys.....


----------



## jamesqf

ptvintage said:


> You may not have grown up using helmets, but you also didn't grow up using cell phones.


In point of fact, I don't use or own a cell phone - or a TV, PDA, or a lot of the other products of modern technology. And this in spite (or perhaps because) of the fact that I work on the bleeding edge of computer technology.

But let me ask a few questions of those who wear helmets in the name of safety. Do you do any or all of these:

1) Talk or text on a cell phone while driving?
2) Drive an SUV or other high-centered vehicle?
3) Have a body fat percentage significantly greater that recommended for your age & sex?
4) Smoke tobacco?
5) Get tattoos and/or body piercings?

I could continue this list until I run out of space, but I hope I've made my point. A good many of you are doubtless choosing to do things that increase your risk of injury or death far more than the difference between wearing a helmet or not. So why do you keep doing them?

Why I don't wear a helmet? Because it trades a good deal of ongoing discomfort for a miniscule decrease in risk.


----------



## Speed Racer

jamesqf said:


> In point of fact, I don't use or own a cell phone - or a TV, PDA, or a lot of the other products of modern technology.


Just a curiosity question, James. Why not?

You obviously _use_ computers, so you're not completely adverse to technology. So why no modern conveniences at home?


----------



## RawhideKid

RawhideKid said:


> FYI nrhareiner, there is horse and cow manure on my boots pretty much all the time. And once I had to rescue a steer who had his horns stuck in between the rails of a steel gait laying on the ground. The more he struggled....the more he just pinned himself down with his feet. It was an impossible situation! Had I not been there and scrambled for an answer...he could have died on the spot...slowly. A lady had called me over to this situation. It looked hopeless. I just slowly went up to it, and very carefully took a piece of binder twine and looped it around the end of one of his horns and pulled it SLOWLY past one of the rails it was stuck behind....HOPING he would then struggle just enough to free his other horn. Sure enough he did...and got free. Can't remember if I was wearing my hat at the time or not. I was too busy being a....cowboy? no, just a caring and courageous person.
> 
> Hear's tippin my hat to yu. Later dudes!
> 
> BTW Kevinhorses, there is nothing wrong with being a "wannabe". I used to WANNA BE a real painter. Now I'm one of the best painters this side a the Pecos and the Rio Grande and north as far as the Rockies! Ha! I met a REAL painter at a Bible study and he quit his present job and came to work for me. God has His wonderful ways with us "wannabas"!
> 
> Meanwhile back at the Ranch! :wink:


Yeah, I call it *"Save a Steer...Rope a Cowboy!"*

No, tha'd be a house painter, Kevin. 

And hear y'all thought us wearing cowboy hats was a minor detail. SURE BLEW THAT OUTTA THE WATER! :lol:


----------



## ridergirl23

RawhideKid said:


> Here's a little John Wayne for Kevinsdhorses, and a little "chivalry" for Riderrgirl23....
> 
> I've been accused of being a "cowboy" when I never even had a cowboy hat on. I was on a city transit bus one time in my painter garb for work and there were some disrespectful thugs swearing like all get out in their conversations with each other. I said out loud to them, "hey, there happens to be ladies present. You should watch your language!" They repied with, "No, problem, cowboy."
> 
> Isn't that ironic!? When's the last time you seen someone with the country gaul and guts to correct these modern day thugs? No, being a "cowboy" comes form the heart. A hard workin man, with honesty and integrity, and stands his roots and his convictions.
> 
> :wink:


i just want to make this clear...... my brother, who usually is what you would call a 'thug' sort of person, but he corrected people the exact way you did when i was little and was tagging along behind him and his friends. Lots of people correct people like that, maybe its not normal in your area, but it is normal anywhere ive been. Honestly, theyd call anyone a cowboy, they'd call anyone anything, but cowboy came to mind when they saw someone who wasnt wearing true religion jeans that are worth 400$ that dont have a speck of dirt on them. just sayin' ...........


----------



## Northern

*James, I'll answer your questions:*

1)No 2)No 3)No 4)No 5)No

Here's one person who wears a helmet who doesn't fit into your list of suspicions/assumptions about helmet-wearers.


----------



## ridergirl23

Northern said:


> 1)No 2)No 3)No 4)No 5)No
> 
> Here's one person who wears a helmet who doesn't fit into your list of suspicions/assumptions about helmet-wearers.


 agreed.


----------



## jamesqf

Speed Racer said:


> Just a curiosity question, James. Why not?
> 
> You obviously _use_ computers, so you're not completely adverse to technology. So why no modern conveniences at home?


The simple, though overly-broad, answer is that the things I don't use don't improve my quality of life, but usually cost money. I don't own a cell phone because I don't want to spend an extra $50 or more each month for the "convenience" of allowing the world to interrupt me at any moment, I don't own a TV because I vastly prefer reading books, etc.

On the other hand, when some modern device IS a convenience to me, I use it. My music player, for instance, is an improvement on carrying CDs around in the glove compartments where they can be scratched or broken.


----------



## JekkaLynn

hillarymorganstovall said:


> I think it depends on how and wear people grew up. Some people grew up in areas that required helmets, and some grew up places where nobody wore helmets.
> 
> I grew up in the country in MS, but most of my friends grew up in the city limits in neighborhoods and stuff. My cousins and sister and I never wore helmets riding bikes or fourwheelers and stuff. We had a quarter mile long gravel driveway that didn't have curbs, and we were never allowed to ride on the roads. My friends that lived in the city did though. My mother let us run through the woods and play all the time, but we wore orange in hunting season and wore boots in snake season. So our momma was protective but gave us freedom.
> 
> I just started to ride horses a few years ago and I didn't take lessons or anything and I would've never thought that people wore helmets on horses! Heck, I didn't know people took riding lessons!! It was just like, hop on and go. And some people who live up in the city somewhere probably couldn't imagine some of the things we did growing up. It's crazy how different things are for every person. How they are raised, where they live, how they live, who taught them, all kinds of things




I grew up on the end of a log dirt road too and some one the stuff me and my 6 siblings did... looking back It's amazing we survived childhood. Someday I'm gonna write a book about it and call it. _Life at the End of the Long Dirt Road : A Story of Our Survival_
When I started riding I rode half trained horses twice then was put on a completely untrained pony bareback and off we went at a gallop. In my first riding lesson (after 6 months of riding untrained horses I finally got lessons) the lesson horse I was suppose to ride went lame so they put me on an old show horse that normally didn't do lessons but was calm enough for a beginner to ride. After the lesson my new coach came over and started apologizing for the horses lack of responsiveness when I was trying to steer him and how hard it was to get him to trot without him either slowing to a walk or trying to canter. I laughed because I honestly thought she was joking. I mean really, I pulled one reign and he turned that way, i pulled the other and he went that way. I pulled back for a while and he would stop. In my eye this was the best trained horse I had ever seen. I rode in a helmet because my friend had a pile of them and her parents said we had to. At the lesson barn the rule was the same. Ride a horse wear a helmet. But the first time I hoped on Indy it was bareback with just a lead rope and no helmet and I had no clue weather she was trained to ride or not. The older I get the less I bother with wearing a helmet.


----------



## Speed Racer

jamesqf said:


> The simple, though overly-broad, answer is that the things I don't use don't improve my quality of life, but usually cost money. I don't own a cell phone because I don't want to spend an extra $50 or more each month for the "convenience" of allowing the world to interrupt me at any moment, I don't own a TV because I vastly prefer reading books, etc.
> 
> On the other hand, when some modern device IS a convenience to me, I use it. My music player, for instance, is an improvement on carrying CDs around in the glove compartments where they can be scratched or broken.


Fair enough, and I certainly see your point.

I have a cell phone. It's an older model Nokia with a pay-as-you-go plan, that costs me all of $20.00 a month. I don't let it rule my life, nor do I let people interrupt me if they're calling at an inopportune time. It's easy enough to turn it off if I'm not planning to answer it, so there's no inconvenience. :wink:

I do have a television, because I like having a window on the world. Simple as that. My radio reception at home sucks eggs, so if I'm paying for satellite anyway, I may as well have pictures to go with the sound. Besides, I find NatGeo and the Science Channel have some very interesting programs.

I also have a DVR, because it came with the satellite package. Best. Toy. EVER. 

I don't own a lot of what people consider 'must haves', and I don't let my personal technology rule my life. I've gone days without picking up the TV remote or my cell phone, and that's fine and dandy by me.


----------



## speedy da fish

Barry Godden said:


> In Britain, it is rare to see a rider who is not wearing a riding hat whilst seated on a horse. What is more, it is almost universally frowned upon by the riding fraternity to ride hatless...
> In many British competitions it is now compulsory to wear both items of safety equipment and sensibly so...
> 
> Do yourself a big favour, don’t take risks, take care. Wear a riding hat (and a spine protector).
> 
> Barry G


Yes you are right Barry, in the UK I have rarely seen a rider not wearing a hat. I have come across many rules regarding safety:
- You have to wear a hat when having lessons at my stables, reglardless of your age or whether it is you horse or not.
- A few or the stables I have ridden at do not give lessons to children under 4.
- At my old stables it was the rules that boarders had to wear there hat when riding their horse under the age of 16. Over 16s were allowed to choose, but I did not come across one that chose not to wear a hat.

I keep my horse at home and still I choose to wear my hat at all times when riding him. Like on sunday he spooked at a lorry coming up behind us and if I didnt calm him and I fell off I would like my helmet to hit the road, not my head! Helmets are easier to replace then heads!
I also wear my hat when working around him away from home, as somtimes he can be nervy and he has a very hard head.

For those of you who do not wear a helmet, however, I think it is fine. Riders can chose whether they want to wear one, or not. It is their body, so their choice!


----------



## nrhareiner

kevinshorses said:


> If by painter you mean an artist then I understand your viewpoint and I won't try to change your romantic view.


No I think he means the kind of painter who slaps paint on buildings. They are easy to find and all around. I know several. Nice enough people. Nothing overly special.


----------



## kevinshorses

nrhareiner said:


> No I think he means the kind of painter who slaps paint on buildings. They are easy to find and all around. I know several. Nice enough people. Nothing overly special.


That's what I was afraid of.


----------



## shaker

mls said:


> Define real.
> 
> I know a lot of folks who still make their living on the backs of a horse. Training horses, working cattle.
> 
> Just because the house has running water doesn't mean they are less of a cowboy.


Cowboy | Define Cowboy at Dictionary.com

"(during the American Revolution) a member of a pro-British guerrilla band that operated between the American and British lines near new york City."


Think it has been a few generations? :lol:


----------



## Speed Racer

shaker said:


> Cowboy | Define Cowboy at Dictionary.com
> 
> "(during the American Revolution) a member of a pro-British guerrilla band that operated between the American and British lines near new york City."
> 
> 
> Think it has been a few generations? :lol:


I've _never_ seen that description of a cowboy.

This is the one all of us have seen and understand:

Main Entry: *1cow·boy* 
Pronunciation: \-ˌbȯi\
Function: _noun_ 
Date: *1623*
*1* *:* one who tends cattle or horses; _especially_ *:* a usually mounted cattle-ranch hand
*2* *:* a rodeo performer


Since you picked the 5th, most obscure, and obviously outdated description, I have to believe you're merely trying to be argumentative.


----------



## smrobs

shaker, what you copied is an incomplete definition. I knows lots of people like the first 2 definitions as opposed to the fifth one.


> 1. a man who herds and tends cattle on a ranch, esp. in the western U.S., and who traditionally goes about most of his work on horseback.
> 2. a man who exhibits the skills attributed to such cowboys, esp. in rodeos.


----------



## shaker

Speed Racer said:


> I've _never_ seen that description of a cowboy.
> 
> This is one all of us have seen and understand, not your obscure one dug up from who knows where:
> 
> Main Entry: *1cow·boy*
> Pronunciation: \-ˌbȯi\
> Function: _noun_
> Date: *1623*
> *1* *:* one who tends cattle or horses; _especially_ *:* a usually mounted cattle-ranch hand
> *2* *:* a rodeo performer
> 
> 
> So, since this entry predates yours by at least 150 years, I think this one is more accurate.


Ok, I think you take the whole internet thing way too seriously.

But you are right and your pure genious is shining through.

Well done, and peace out. I am going outside to spend some time with my horses.


----------



## jamesqf

Speed Racer said:


> I have a cell phone. It's an older model Nokia with a pay-as-you-go plan, that costs me all of $20.00 a month.


Humm... Last time I looked, the lowest price seemed to run around $50/month. The ones that advertised lower base rates always had "extras" that would push up the real cost.

I suppose my aversion to TV, and really video of any kind, 
is just a personal quirk. I don't seem to process "streaming" information all that well. I'd much rather exchange emails, for instance, than try to talk about anything beyond ordinary social conversation. The written word just seems so much comprehensible than speech. And when you get into the sort of movie that depends on actors emoting... well, it's pretty well incomprehensible to me.


----------



## Tennessee

Speed Racer said:


> I have a cell phone. It's an older model Nokia with a pay-as-you-go plan, that costs me all of $20.00 a month.




Really? Wow. My dad pays $450 - $500 a month for our cell phone bills. Then again, there are five of us and we all have VCast and Internet, not to mention unlimited text and pix.


----------



## ridergirl23

I pay 25$ a month for my cell bill... i have unlimited text, pictures,and free calls after 6 and on weekends, and 250 minutes.  haha i love my plan, im with rogers.


----------



## wild_spot

My mum has a phone she hardly uses and she is on a plan - She pays $9 a month and only pays mroe if she uses it, which she doesn't. Of course, she never has it on her and when she does, it's flat, so it isn't much use in the first place!

My dad pays about $30 a month but he uses his a fair bit for work.

I pay $60 a month but that's because I have an iphone and use the internet. My last phone I payed $19 a month and got $140 worth of calls and text, no internet.


----------



## Walkamile

Northern said:


> I've often wondered why the helmetless are so; do tell!


Well Northern, while I ride with a helmet now, as a promise to my dear husband after buying me my two horses, I never wore one before that.

Didn't even consider wearing one, and I have ridden some very rank horses, and been riding for over 35 years (I started late!). Maybe I'd still not be wearing one if it wasn't for Don, but it's just part of my "equipment" now. 

There are times however, when I do miss feeling the breeze in my hair, but a promise is a promise, and I am a woman of my word.

I'm sure my answer hasn't shed any enlightenment, but after reading all the posts, figured I may as well throw in my 2 bits. It has been an interesting read!


----------



## RawhideKid

kevinshorses said:


> That's what I was afraid of.


Your fear is base upon ignorance, and your ignorance is based upon fear. What a mess. You need to wear a helmet just to get by in life.

And along with your fellow poster, concerning painters....it shows your lack of respect and recognition of specialized trades. Ignornace and fear can be very blinding....apparently.

You see, I thought I was a painter when I painted like nrhareiner was describing until I met this REAL painter at a Bible study. I soon came to understand that this fellow was a master at his trade. He gave the trade the honor and dignity it deserves, with his precision, speed and integrity. He left the job he was at and came to work for me. He saw the kind of work I did and said, "you aint a painter!" I said very humbly, "well, I wanna be". And you can be assured I asked him questions and watched every move he made for the next 5 years. He said I learned more in 5 years than most learn in 20. In my 20 some years of painting now...I've never met one single person who had the humilty and desire to learn that I had. My Dad taught me a valuable principle, "humilty before honor".

You see, this is because I recognized QUALITY, appreciated a high level work ethic, and a high energy worker. There are many dime-a-dozen goof-balls who think that painting is just a slapping on of paint. But that doesn't sway the integrity of us who know better. 

I carry that same respect, humility and courage into my life of horses. I still recognize those who are accomplished, and those with the character to make the lifestyle glorious and beautiful. I ask questions, watch every move, put my hat on with dignity, ride tall in the saddle and let the fearful and ignorant rant in their blindness.  

My hat is a badge of honor...with many other practical and valuable uses. I don't know why you wear one. :shock:


----------



## smrobs

RawhideKid, I think you need to just chill out and re-check the definition of humility before passing judgement on people you don't know. There is a very fine line between "courage" and stupidity. For those that choose to wear a helmet, that's great, that is what they want to do and what they feel compelled to do. I am one who chooses not to but I will not for one instant preach that a cowboy hat is the be-all, end-all of headwear. I know people that I am willing to bet my firstborn child are better 'cowboys' than you that wear baseball caps. You need to check yourself before throwing out lamebrain half-assed judgements on people you have never met.


----------



## RawhideKid

You should know by now I think about what I say before I say it. And you can bet your life on it...I mean every word. 

From the beginning of my postings there has been shown no respect for my chioce...or my reasons for NOT wearing a helmet. I meet the gainsayers and challengers head-on with what I feel is warranted...and will continue to do so.

My confidence and strength of character is based upon years of submission to worthy leadership, character shaping in life's firey furnace, and the humilty to respect and understand TRUE quality.

Being a man of substance...I don't do anything lightly. You wanna challenge my REASONS....you best get ready for an earful! You wanna ask why people don't wear a helmet....get ready for their answers, and have the decency to respect them. 

You may not have met my breed of person before, but that's your problem, not mine.


----------



## smrobs

It seems slightly amazing to me that you are the only non-helmet wearer that feels they are being bashed upon. I wonder if it had anything to do with your initial attitude??


----------



## Attitude05

i wear a helemet when working because insurance wont cover us otherwise, but because thats 99% of the time it has become more of a habit. i wont say i ALWAYS wear one, because i dont. when i bring my horse in and put her out i just jump on a ride her down without one. And if i ride late in the afternoon i wont either, i actually do not know why this is, and i think its a very bad mistake upon me, you only ever get onbe brain so best keep it safe. this will make me think alot more when i ride without one from now on i think...


----------



## RawhideKid

smrobs said:


> It seems slightly amazing to me that you are the only non-helmet wearer that feels they are being bashed upon. I wonder if it had anything to do with your initial attitude??


Go back and read all the posts over again. If you've even followed along closely to begin with.

I can asure you, it had nothing to do with attitude. Just solid conviction and deep meanings behind why I don't wear a helmet. Apparently people aren't used to men with strong character and unwavering convictions. In this present world of compromise, flakeyness, and perverted political correctness....our breed is shocking to the feeble minded.

Strange how certain individual's insulting and personal attacks aren't correction. Not so strange really. Just flakey and confused minds at work, which need halter breaking! They obviously have no sound sense of judgement. Scatter-brained!...is the descriptive.


----------



## nrhareiner

RawhideKid said:


> Go back and read all the posts over again. If you've even followed along closely to begin with.
> 
> I can asure you, it had nothing to do with attitude. Just solid conviction and deep meanings behind why I don't wear a helmet. Apparently people aren't used to men with strong character and unwavering convictions. In this present world of compromise, flakeyness, and perverted political correctness....our breed is shocking to the feeble minded.
> 
> Strange how certain individual's insulting and personal attacks aren't correction. Not so strange really. Just flakey and confused minds at work, which need halter breaking! They obviously have no sound sense of judgement. Scatter-brained!...is the descriptive.


This is the problem people have with your attitude. You seem to think that b/c you are set in your ways and that others maybe able to look beyond their ideas to see others ideas as valid that that some how makes them weak of character. 

My mind is neither weak or confused. I know exactly what I stand for and what I believe. However what I choose to ware on my head or lack their of does not define me. It does not define my beliefs or my character. Believe this when I say your "breed" is nothing new to me. It is not shocking. It reminds me of the people who breed crap. They can not see that what they are doing is crap. They are defined by what they breed. YOU seem to be defined by what you have on your head. If you where truly a person of strong character it would not matter what you ware on your head. Heck you could have Minnie Pearls hat on and still be the same person with the same character. However from what I have read of your replies I am not seeing that.


----------



## RawhideKid

nrhareiner said:


> This is the problem people have with your attitude. You seem to think that b/c you are set in your ways and that others maybe able to look beyond their ideas to see others ideas as valid that that some how makes them weak of character.
> 
> My mind is neither weak or confused. I know exactly what I stand for and what I believe. However what I choose to ware on my head or lack their of does not define me. It does not define my beliefs or my character. Believe this when I say your "breed" is nothing new to me. It is not shocking. It reminds me of the people who breed crap. They can not see that what they are doing is crap. They are defined by what they breed. YOU seem to be defined by what you have on your head. If you where truly a person of strong character it would not matter what you ware on your head. Heck you could have Minnie Pearls hat on and still be the same person with the same character. However from what I have read of your replies I am not seeing that.


Yup, amazing how something as simple as a hat brings out the true character of a person. Here you had an opportunity to respect someone's perception and respect of tradition and style, but your shallow and shadey character prevented you from such integrity. 

I respect other's chioce and comfort zone of needing to wear a helmet. But when I give my honest answer to the original thread question, my reasons and convictions are discounted as "crap". *You are what comes out of your mouth. :wink:*


----------



## wild_spot

Remember the Conscientious Etiquette Policy guys: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-announcements/conscientious-etiquette-policy-6069/

Personal attacks will not be tolerated - tone it down.


----------



## Tennessee

RawhideKid said:


> Yup, amazing how something as simple as a hat brings out the true character of a person. Here you had an opportunity to respect someone's perception and respect of tradition and style, but your shallow and shadey character prevented you from such integrity.
> 
> *I respect other's chioce and comfort zone of needing to wear a helmet.* But when I give my honest answer to the original thread question, my reasons and convictions are discounted as "crap". *You are what comes out of your mouth. :wink:*



That's nonsense, sir. And you know it.

You have done nothing but talk highly of yourself and insult those that wear helmets. You said earlier that they bashed you because you do not wear a helmet or whatever, but I don't ever remember them doing that. I am one of the non - helmet wearers here, and there has been no disrespecting the fact that you don't wear a helmet. You obviously have no problem telling other people that they are weak or a pansy because they do wear one. 

If you truly respected their personal choice ( just like they have respected your personal choice...funny how that works, huh? ) then this argument would have been over six pages ago. 

I am a little irritated with you constantly telling people degrading things like their hats are on too tight, they are weak, a pansy, confused, etc.


I am not sure how things work out there in your cowboy fantasy land, but in the real world, if you want respect, you gotta give a little too.

- Tiffany


----------



## nrhareiner

RawhideKid said:


> Yup, amazing how something as simple as a hat brings out the true character of a person. Here you had an opportunity to respect someone's perception and respect of tradition and style, but your shallow and shadey character prevented you from such integrity.
> 
> I respect other's chioce and comfort zone of needing to wear a helmet. But when I give my honest answer to the original thread question, my reasons and convictions are discounted as "crap". *You are what comes out of your mouth. :wink:*


Like WildSpot said. There is a Etiquette policy here. You have insulter person after person including myself. I personally will not stand for it. I have never insulted YOUR right to ware on your head what ever YOU wish. However every other word you type disrespects others right to ware what they wish. Again calling people who you do not know shady character and saying people lack integrity is gone too fare. I have yet to see anyone say that not using a helmet means you lack integrity or that it makes you a shady character.

Again if your character is set in what you have on your head then you are the one with a problem. It is not what is on the outside of person that counts but what is on the inside. YOU seem to be caught up with what is on the outside.

If you put a helmet on your head and swing a leg over a horse. Would you be a different person then you are if you have a cowboy hat on when you swing your leg over??

That is what people are tying to get you to understand. One which you seem to not see. It is NOT the hat that makes you who you are. It is not the lack their of who make a person what they are. You say people are shady and lack integrity. I have yet to see anyone but you saying that.

So this WILL BE YOUR WARNING.

There will be no more calling people shady charter or saying anyone lack integrity. We all understand that you like your cowboy hat. Great. We are not saying you can not ware it. We are saying that no matter what you put on your head does not change who you are as a horseman. If you can not see that perhaps this is not the forum for you.


----------



## kevinshorses

RawhideKid said:


> I don't know why you wear one. :shock:


I wear a hat to keep the sun and rain off my face. I know what I am and I don't need to wear something to show people that. If you fancy yourself a better than average painter then imagine how you would feel if someone came around you claiming to be some kind of fantastic painter because they wear a pair of white pants and have a few cheap brushes. That's how I feel toward your exclaimations about what it means to be a cowboy and that is why I take issue with you.


----------



## Citrus

I wear a helmet because I have seen a brain, many brains, coming out of a person in some sort of accident.... it is a slush like consistency very lightly held together.... even hitting your head hard can cause brain damamge and make you mean, irritable, your heart race and your emotions fly.....


----------



## Spyder

Citrus said:


> .. even hitting your head hard can cause brain damage and make you mean, irritable, your heart race and your emotions fly.....


Ah so that accounts for my bad temper and irritability.


----------



## Citrus

Spyder said:


> Ah so that accounts for my bad temper and irritability.


 no.... LOL.... that is an excuse.... but really, people do not realize how easily the brain can be damaged..... it is the most comlpex and yet most delicate organ we have.


----------



## mistygirl

I know that I always where a helmet now when i first got my horse sadly i never wore one when i knew i should have. My horse wasn't even trained to ride and i was whereing no helmet but ever since my mom got in a car accident i found out about what she had on her brain that could kill her if she hits her head to hard and i might have it. it makes me worry so i always where a helmet and seatbelt is a habit too. also my chc leader got in a bad horse accident she wore her helmet if she didn't where that she would have died too. she is paralized from the waist down still rides and is starting to walk again. its amazing. and one of my friend mom didin't where a helmet and she fell of her horse when he reared and git her head on the pavement and had to get brain sergery will never be the same now.


----------



## RawhideKid

Why do I ride without a helmet? Because from deep within me...out of my heart and the deepest recesses of my soul....out of the roots of my upbringing, and my beliefs and appreciation of the western and cowboy life-style....grew this thing called a cowboy hat out of the top of my head....and a helmet don't fit there! Ha!

It's just as natural as breathing. 

Why would I look like this...









When this is *me*...



















Eh?


----------



## Tennessee

RawhideKid said:


> Why do I ride without a helmet? Because from deep within me...out of my heart and the deepest recesses of my soul....out of the roots of my upbringing, and my beliefs and appreciation of the western and cowboy life-style....grew this thing called a cowboy hat out of the top of my head....and a helmet don't fit there! Ha!
> 
> It's just as natural as breathing.
> 
> Why would I look like this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When this is *me*...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eh?



Well, Mr. Cowboy, lucky for you, now they make a helmet that is shaped like a cowboy hat!

 Click here

Now you really can have your cake and eat it too.


----------



## nrhareiner

Tennessee said:


> Well, Mr. Cowboy, lucky for you, now they make a helmet that is shaped like a cowboy hat!
> 
> Click here
> 
> Now you really can have your cake and eat it too.


They have improve the look of those safety cowboy hats over the years.

You know it is simple to have your cake and eat it. Try eating your cake and having it. Now that is a Challenge.


----------



## ridergirl23

RawhideKid said:


> Why do I ride without a helmet? Because from deep within me...out of my heart and the deepest recesses of my soul....out of the roots of my upbringing, and my beliefs and appreciation of the western and cowboy life-style....grew this thing called a cowboy hat out of the top of my head....and a helmet don't fit there! Ha!
> 
> It's just as natural as breathing.
> 
> Why would I look like this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When this is *me*...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eh?


thats funny, because I look exactlylike the first picture when i show... but then when i go out to the mountains i could just throw a cowboy hat on and look exactly like that.....


----------



## RawhideKid

Tennessee said:


> Says the man who continues to try to prove how much of a cowboy he thinks he is, when the original purpose of the thread was about helmets.


The orignal purpose was to answer WHY we do NOT wear helmets. I've risen quite effectively and successfully to the challenge and the task.

I think a gold star is in store! What do you think? :lol:


----------



## nrhareiner

ridergirl23 said:


> meh, i have only one identity, which is me. but i have about 60 thousand different looks, I could go through all of them in a day when i feel like it, haha but somehow people still reconize me! Ive tryed to fit into stereotypes so much i got bored... and became myself.


This is the point I have been trying to make. You may change what you have on but that does not change who you are. If it does them perhaps you need to rethink who you are.


----------



## RawhideKid

ridergirl23 said:


> meh, i have only one identity, which is me. but i have about 60 thousand different looks, I could go through all of them in a day when i feel like it, haha but somehow people still reconize me! Ive tryed to fit into stereotypes so much i got bored... and became myself.


I have a few different hats. I thought someone would jump on that when I said my hat grew from out of the top of my head. 
:lol: In my pictures I'm wearing two different hats. They are miraculous and can change shape!


----------



## RawhideKid

Tennessee said:


> Does that go along with that whole "cowboy tradition" thing you have had going for ya and how you want to be just like the cowboys back in the day or something?
> 
> If so, get with the picture. It is 2010, not 1889.
> 
> And sure, it is cute to act like you are a cowboy with your hat and chaps and all of that junk.....when you are six.
> 
> You are a grown man. A painter. Not a cowboy. I don't care how strong your dang heart is.


*History of the Cowboy Hat* 











The Western cowboy hat is symbolic and recognized around the world as part of "cowboy" culture and lore. It is the defining piece of attire for farm and ranch workers in the western United States, Canada and northern Mexico, as well as for country & western singers and rodeo athletes. 










Before the invention of the cowboy hat, cowpunchers of the plains wore castoffs of previous lives. Everything from formal top hats and derbies to leftover remnants of civil War headgear. Tams and sailor hats were even often worn by men moving westward. 

The concept of a broad-brimmed hat with a high crown worn by a rider on horseback came primarily from the tradition of the Mexican vaquero. However, the cowboy hat is a by-product of many designs, including Mexican hats such as the sombrero, and various designs of wide-brimmed hats worn by farmers and plantation workers, as well as the design used by the U.S. Cavalry. The shape of a cowboy hat once depended very much on the region from which it originated. At one time a person could tell where a cowboy was from just by the crease in his hat. 

In the early days, the cowboy hat was valued for being functional, with the wide brim protecting working cowboys from the sun and rain. It could be used to signal others, fan a campfire, or pull water out of a stream. Today, while the hats can still serve these purposes, most people wear them for aesthetic value as a part of Western lifestyle, and as a fashion statement. A cowboy hat even appears on the flag of Calgary, Alberta, where "white hat ceremonies" are held by the civic government to welcome visiting dignitaries, and is the traditional gift presented by the city's mayor to foreign guests. 

John B. Stetson is credited with designing and marketing the first "cowboy" hat in the USA, which he called the "Boss of the Plains". With its high, creased crown and wide molded brim, it became the prototype and foundation for all other cowboy hat designs. Stetson hats or Stetsons, or also sometimes known simply as cowboy hats, refers to a brand name and not a type of hat. The John B. Stetson Company of St. Joseph, Missouri, founded by John B. Stetson (1830-1906), is the manufacturer of one of the more famous variants of the cowboy hat, the "Boss of the Plains", a felt hat with a tall crown and very wide brim. 

*Versions of Stetson's "Boss of the Plains" worn at the time.*









There are several versions of the history associated with the invention of the Stetson hat. The first is the most widely held belief which states that in the 1860's Stetson created a rugged hat for himself made from thick beaver fur felt while panning for gold in Colorado. The second version is based on folklore, Stetson invented the hat while on a hunting trip by showing his companions how he could make cloth out of fur without weaving. Stetson made an unusually large hat from hides collected on the trip, and wore the hat for the remainder of the expedition. Although initially worn as a joke, Stetson soon grew fond of the hat for its ability to protect him from the elements. It had a wide brim for protection from the elements, a high crown to keep an insulating pocket of air on the head, and a waterproof lining so the hat could be used to carry water. It's likely that there's at least some truth to both versions that contributed in the creation of the Stetson hat known as the "Boss of the Plains". 

Studies have shown however that in fact, there is evidence to show that the design of the "Stetson" hat was actually originally designed by Christy's Hats from Frampton Cotterell, Bristol, England. Bristol University lecturer John Moore, stated: "Few people know that the ten gallon hat was invented in Frampton Cotterell but it's well documented in the records of the hat makers who built and owned the Christy's Hat factory. J. B. Stetson fought a long patent case with Christy's - and lost. The result was that he had to pay a licence fee to market the famous Stetson hat". Stetson may have lost the patent case, but he won in the long run as the style of hat is known universally as a "Stetson", and Christy's role is nearly forgotten. Christy's famous hat factory in Park Lane, which once employed a quarter of Frampton Cotterell residents, is now a listed building and a spacious house. Christy's built their factory in 1812 in an area where hatting was already a major industry and their main business was trading with the West Indies, making large brimmed felt hats for slaves harvesting sugar cane in the rainy season. 

The "Stetson" hat was first sold in Central City, Colorado in 1865 in a style called the "Boss of the Plains,". In 1869 Stetson returned to Philadelphia to found his hat company, which produced high quality hats for outdoor use. By 1886 Stetson's hat company was the largest in the world, and had mechanized the hat-making industry. The original Stetson hat sold for five dollars. 









The Royal Canadian Mounted Police Red Serge dress uniform includes a Stetson with a flat brim. The Stetson was first used unofficially by the North West Mounted Police in the late 1800's, in place of the traditional white pith helmet. The color for the RCMP Stetson is sometimes referred to as "Belgian Belly", it is a reddish buff, pastel like color of the underfur of the Belgian Hare. Although called a Stetson, the hat type or style was considered a campaign hat. In the Second Boer War, the flat brimmed Stetson also became the standard issue of the second Canadian Contingent, becoming recognized throughout the British Empire as a symbol of Canada. The Stetson hat became an official part of the uniform of the Royal North West Mounted Police, which later became the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. 








The campaign style hat was also adopted by the U.S. Army from 1911 to 1942. The campaign hat is still worn by U.S. Armed forces drill instructors. Later, the campaign hat also became known as the "Montana Peak", and was immensely popular with cowboys and also became the official hat worn by many forest rangers and state troopers as well, each having it's own unique distinctive creased crown with slight variants in the size of the brim and crown, and shade of color. 


The modern cowboy hat comes in wide variety of shapes, styles, and colors, everything from traditional styles preferred by cowboys, to outrageous fashion statements, but Stetson's "Boss of the Plains" is still the foundation for most of the cowboy hats produced today.


----------



## wild_spot

I am closing this thread as it has devolved into one line digs and off topic posturing.


----------

