# What is this pattern called? Would this be considered brindle?



## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm not 100% sure but it kind of does look like brindling. It's very neat whatever it is.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

A bit off topic, but I have a question on BLM freeze brands. 

I have noticed lately several photos of horses that the BLM just sort of seems to slap the freeze brand in the middle of the horse's neck. I always though it should be neatly near the crest. On my BLM gelding it is neatly near the crest (and under the mane).

Has it always been this way (in the middle of the neck?) or does the BLM just sort of slap-em-on where ever? Maybe my guy's brand is actually the acception to the rule?

Stunning horse by the way. And I have no idea on the stripes, but she's lovely!  

My favorite thing about Mustangs is their sturdy conformation. I think QH breeders could learn a thing or two about breeding a horse with good bone and hooves! Your girl is the whole package- conformation and drop-dead-gorgeous color!


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Lol if you walk out into the pens where I just adopted my gelding last month I noticed they all had them all in different places on the neck. When the do the branding, worming, hoof trims and shots they send the horses through the shoots down to a hydrolic chute that is padded. Once the horse is in there it squeezes the horse all over just enough so they can't move around much. They open the door and then brand the horse. They try to get them along the crest of the neck but the horses are still able to kind of move their heads in there which is why you will see the brand not always in the center. This is my gelding in that padded, hydrolic chute when they were trimming his hooves before we loaded him up on the trailer.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

My friend messaged me that they found this info on brindles... The brindle horse usually has dark stripes on a lighter background, but there are cases of light stripes on a dark background. At one point, it was thought to be part of the dun factor, but it found to be untrue. "Many people confuse the Brindle pattern with Dun Factor markings (stripe down the back, barring on the legs, and occasional regular-spaced striping down the ribs). At one time, it was thought Brindle was a just a variation of Dun Factor. Indeed, there have been many examples of horses that were probably carrying both Dun Factor and Brindle."


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Wow, that's pretty wild!

I have never been out to where they have them. I bought my guy second-hand. 

Best trail horse I have ever owned.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

I absolutely LOVE wild mustangs! I bought my red mare here second hand and she is hands down the BEST trail partner I have ever had! We just moved up into the Sierra mountains in northern California in January and she has proven to be quite the mountain goat! My new boy will be just as good. He is so level headed and as much as I hate to say it, way smarter than my mare lol.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I was thinking maybe it was reverse brindle? You see that on some dogs.. That would be why the brindling is lighter than than the base coat?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, that's very unique . Does it have any kind of texture when you run your hand over it? I would say that it most definitely could be brindle.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

It looks like pretty typical roan striping to me...


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

It looks like it feels textured but it isn't. Before I snapped these photos yesterday I was sure to brush her hair down nice and smooth.

Faceman, she has absolutely no roaning or white hairs.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I would think a roan would have some indication elsewhere on the body....I've never heard of striped roaning before, either. I'm curious as to what the color experts say on this one.


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## Tabbi Kat (Nov 30, 2010)

Me too! I'm hoping someone chimes in soon that knows It is definitely a pattern of some sort since it is the same on both sides. You can hardly tell she has those stripes now that she has rolled in the dirt again. She loves being dirty.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Tabbi Kat said:


> It looks like it feels textured but it isn't. Before I snapped these photos yesterday I was sure to brush her hair down nice and smooth.
> 
> Faceman, she has absolutely no roaning or white hairs.


Yeah, I don't necessarily think that is what it is although you can have dun and roan together - I don't see any other typical evidence of roaning, but the pattern looks much like striped roaning, which is just a striped pattern on the ribs of some roans. It is more often seen in Appy LP roaning, but is sometimes seen on regular roans also. Hard to say exactly what it is...horses originally had much more striping than they do today, but since domestication have not had the need for it so most of it has been diluted out


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

You are thinking of the rabicano pattern. But I don't think this particular mare shows any of the other characteristics. But I will also be the first to admit I am not a color expert.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

trailhorserider said:


> You are thinking of the rabicano pattern. But I don't think this particular mare shows any of the other characteristics. But I will also be the first to admit I am not a color expert.


No, YOU are thinking of rabicano patterning. I am thinking of roan and LP roaning, which is what I addressed, and both of which can manifest themselves in rib striping, just as with rabicano, although not normally as prominant. Why must some people insist on telling you what you are thinking?


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Faceman said:


> No, YOU are thinking of rabicano patterning. I am thinking of roan and LP roaning, which is what I addressed, and both of which can manifest themselves in rib striping, just as with rabicano, although not normally as prominant. Why must some people insist on telling you what you are thinking?



Gosh darn! My mistake! 

She doesn't look anything like an Appaloosa. :lol:

Pray tell what kind of "regular roans" does striping appear in if not rabicano?


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

trailhorserider said:


> Gosh darn! My mistake!
> 
> She doesn't look anything like an Appaloosa. :lol:
> 
> Pray tell what kind of "regular roans" does striping appear in if not rabicano?


No one said she is or looked anything like an Appaloosa...surely you don't talk for people as well as think for them...:shock:

Striping is camoflage, and it is believed that most, if not all, horses originally demonstrated striping or spotting to one degree or another. The vestiges of that appear in many horses today, although as I said in an earlier post since domestication, camoflage is obviously not a natural selection variable, so the trait has largely been diluted out. That manifestation is not limited to rabicano. Even the spots on Appys often tend to follow lines and are thought by some to be broken up vestiges of striping, just as they are with spotted felines.

As I said above, striping manifests itself in rabicano, but is certainly not limited to rabicano alone...in the case of the OP's horse, whatever is causing them seems to be fairly transparent - at least from the pictures. We tend to fall into the trap of thinking a horse is brindle or rabicano or LP/PATN only when it is strongly exhibited in the phenotype. But it can be subtle as well...


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Faceman said:


> No one said she is or looked anything like an Appaloosa...surely you don't talk for people as well as think for them...:shock:


I thought LP meant leopard pattern. I consider that an Appaloosa trait, although I am aware in manifests itself in breeds older than the Appaloosa.

I thought there were other things that go along with LP, such as sclera, striped hooves, mottling, etc. that I wasn't seeing on this horse, so I wasn't sure why LP was even mentioned. 

I am not sure what prompted the rude outburst on your end. I am a pretty mild mannered person. I don't intentionally irritate folks on this forum (or any forum for that matter). So if I miss spoke it was not meant to raise your hackles. That's why I even included the phrase_ "But I will also be the first to admit I am not a color expert." _ In case I unintentionally suggested a color or pattern that was not correct in this discussion.

I come here to learn, and I was kind of thinking along the lines of "oh yeah, he means rabicano." Not along the lines of "lets see if I can ****-off faceman." 

So I took it as a temper tantrum and rather rude on your part for biting my head off. Even now you are still being rude! And to think, before this I respected you. :rofl:


​


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

I had a mare that had something like that (thinner though) on her neck,chest,and belly. They were quite textured though....

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/could-she-brindling-54882/

Your horse has pretty markings whatever they are! You could do a DNA test to see if it is chimeric,but most chimerics have more vibrant two tones. The tests can't guarantee a chimeric either,because even if you send in hair samples from different places it could still be the same horse on those parts and the "other" horse could be on a different body part. AGH...does that make sense? It is the non-chimeric that can (supposedly) pass it on and there really isn't a test for that except to wait and see if foals have it...lol. haha...sorry if I am rambling


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

trailhorserider said:


> I thought LP meant leopard pattern. I consider that an Appaloosa trait, although I am aware in manifests itself in breeds older than the Appaloosa.
> 
> I thought there were other things that go along with LP, such as sclera, striped hooves, mottling, etc. that I wasn't seeing on this horse, so I wasn't sure why LP was even mentioned.


I mentioned felines also, but there is no intimation her horse is a cat any more than there was it is an Appaloosa. You might want to look at the context in which LP/Appy have been mentioned.

Sorry if I came across as rude - the intent was not to be rude but to point out the folly of trying to tell someone else what they are thinking based upon you own limited knowledge, when their thinking was made perfectly clear. If you are indeed trying to learn that is admirable. One learns by listening - I'm sure there are many things I could learn from you on topics I don't know much about. We all are knowledgeable in some areas and still learning in others.

Just for the record, LP actually invokes spots and characteristics, not pattern. PATN would refer to pattern...it gets a bit confusing with Appys...


To Piaffe - I agree, it would be interesting if the source of the striping on the OP's mare could be pinned down, although keep in mind the DNA would be the same for the entire body - it would not (and could not) vary from one part of the body to the next...


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## sullylvr (Aug 13, 2009)

Faceman said:


> One learns by listening


actually its hard to learn anything without interaction, asking questions and making mistakes. thats beside the point though :lol:

wow he sure is beautiful!! id love to own a BLM someday! and his markings are unique and pretty, but thats about the only thing i can say about them, im clueless about genetics/color:lol:


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have a plain bay standardbred gelding who has pretty prominent rib striping in his summer coat. No idea what causes it but it certainly is not brindling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

To Piaffe - I agree, it would be interesting if the source of the striping on the OP's mare could be pinned down, although keep in mind the DNA would be the same for the entire body - it would not (and could not) vary from one part of the body to the next...[/QUOTE]

The way it was explained to me by Animal Genetics testing (whom I had test my brindle) was that Chimerism could be verified by them finding two seperate sets of dna. Two twins fusing therefore two seperate horses. So not literally body parts are from one horse and some from another,but rather the actual hairs. So even though they didnt Find two different dnas from the hairs I pulled chimerism couldnt be completely ruled out because hair from another area could have had the other dna. *shrugs*..... Just what the person there explained to me.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Piaffe said:


> The way it was explained to me by Animal Genetics testing (whom I had test my brindle) was that Chimerism could be verified by them finding two seperate sets of dna. Two twins fusing therefore two seperate horses. So not literally body parts are from one horse and some from another,but rather the actual hairs. So even though they didnt Find two different dnas from the hairs I pulled chimerism couldnt be completely ruled out because hair from another area could have had the other dna. *shrugs*..... Just what the person there explained to me.


 
Yeah, chimerism itself is a bit different and in theory you could see that, although that would be under the assumption the horse was chimeric to begin with, which is long odds. Normally though chimerism manifests itself in different DNA for different organs developed from the different zygotes. I would be surprised if it would pertain to hair in different parts of the body, but the experts know more than I do in that regard. I suppose it is possible though, so that would certainly introduce an additional pssible explanation for the striping...


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

In all honesty in the end I personally highly doubt that this particular horse is chimeric. Or even brindle. It is certainly very interesting though and I am curious what others might think it is...


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Faceman said:


> I mentioned felines also, but there is no intimation her horse is a cat any more than there was it is an Appaloosa. You might want to look at the context in which LP/Appy have been mentioned.
> 
> Sorry if I came across as rude - the intent was not to be rude but to point out the folly of trying to tell someone else what they are thinking based upon you own limited knowledge, when their thinking was made perfectly clear. If you are indeed trying to learn that is admirable. One learns by listening - I'm sure there are many things I could learn from you on topics I don't know much about. We all are knowledgeable in some areas and still learning in others.
> 
> ...


If I was not into the study of everything "horse" I would not be here. I had assumed we are all here to interact and learn. Maybe some are here just to tell others what they think they know. 

For the record, from here on out (and retroactively if I can do that) everything that come out of my head are MY thoughts, and my thoughts only. I do NOT want anyone to think I am reading their mind and/or putting thoughts into their head. 

As for chimerism, you are wrong. Hairs from the body of the same horse can have different DNA types if they are chimeric. 

http://americashorsedaily.com/one-in-a-million-part-1/

And part 2 of the article:
One in a Million: Part 2 – America’s Horse Daily


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## OTTBLover (Jun 23, 2011)

trailhorserider - thanks for that article - I found it really interesting!


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## dunfold (Nov 15, 2010)

This horse is a dun? I have heard of some duns getting/having something called "ghost stripes" tho I have never seen it. Could this be what your horse have? 
And I'm jealous of you Americans having such a gorgeous horse as the mustang... Absolutely would LOVE to be able to have one...


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## Monty77 (Aug 8, 2011)

This could be brindle. I'm no expert but I've heard of cases where the horse is a chestnut with white brindle. But that doesn't look like any picture I've ever seen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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