# My Gelding Crow Hopping, Help!!!



## ppickett21 (Feb 5, 2009)

I have a gelding that is around 14 and I have had him since Feb. this year. He is really a good horse and I love him to death, but everytime we get into a full run he starts crow hopping and I am almost 50 years old so it is pretty hard to hang on and stop him at the same time. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do with him?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

My only suggestion is that you kinda suck some of the air out of him/get him tired doing circles at a trot or easy lope before you try running. Is he cowhorse bred by chance? My brother had a Mr. San Peppy mare that he got when she was 7 or 8 and until the day we stopped riding her, she would crow hop at the oddest times and none of us could ever get her broke from it, it was just her personality. I hope my suggestion helps some, good luck!!

And welcome to the forum by the way.


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## ppickett21 (Feb 5, 2009)

Thank you for your suggestion. He is a full blooded appaloosa, so I don't think he would have cowhorse bred in him, but I don't know.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Hi and welcome to the forum!

It isn't unusual for horses to start crow-hopping when moving them into a canter. The last few horses I've owned have all done that until they were warmed up - that is usually refereed to as being "cold backed".

My current gelding is a 7 year old grade horse and a perfect gentleman on the trail but needs to be ridden for a solid 15 min to 1/2 hour for him to get the freshness out before asking for a canter. As smrobs suggested, a lot of cow bred horses do that and your horse, even as a full blooded Appy may still have some of that wonderful breeding.

I'm well past your age and hate crow-hopping but as long as Boomer is "loose" then moving up in his gates isn't a problem.

The only other thing I might suggest is to be sure it isn't coming from pain. It could be an ill fitting saddle, the onset of arthritis, or your position, just to name a few things.


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## Colesonfire (Aug 21, 2009)

Are you sure he isn't hurting? Sometimes that will cause a horse to buck, crow hop, etc. as iridehorses sugests.


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## Calamity Jane (Mar 16, 2009)

ppickett21, what are your cues to ask him to run?

When you ask him to run (run or lope?), do you keep the reins loose or not? What kind of bit do you use? If you use a shank bit and tend to ride with a tight or otherwise not loose rein and ask the horse to go faster than a trot at either a lope or a run.....then you may be causing the crow hopping. Especially if you grip with your legs. 

How balanced a rider are you? Do you tend to lean forward or back? Do you bounce in the saddle? Or do you move with the horse?

Also....you have had him since February....have you ridden him steadily since then? When you first got him, did the sellers ride him at all speeds? Did they have any trouble?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Don't stop him when he starts crow hopping. Whack him on the *** and make him move faster. He just isn't busy enough if he has time to crow hop. Slowing him down is offering relief and that is the last thing you want to do.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I have to agree with Kevinshorses on this one. 

If you have, or if you do rule out pain, or saddle issues, push him foward, rather than try to slow, or stop him; get him to canter some circles, and keep him moving foward. It could be that he just feels good, and crowhopping is his way of sharing that exhilaration, so rather than try to stop him, and possibly give the crowhopping a chance to turn into a habit because he learns that it gets him out of work, push him foward.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Please tell we Brits what *"crow hopping*" is. 
Is it contagious and can it be caught over the internet?

We've got crows over here, and they do hop about. Their nest is up in a tree in the pasture in which my mare grazes. Will she catch it?


Barry G

If so what's the treatment?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Crow-Hopping is basically a horse running with its head down. It feels like an anemic buck. It can be contagious if the horse next to you starts to do it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

No Barry, crow hopping is a term we use to describe a horse that is kinda bucking but kinda not. It is like a very mild buck. Let me see if I can find a video of it. 









 
And I absolutely HATE this video because it gives a bad name to cowboys everywhere but here is what I consider an extreme case of crowhopping. It is borderline bucking but not quite rank enough for that IMHO.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

I asked the question, now I know. Thank you for the demonstrations.
I can see the hopping. It is the crow bit that confuses.

Guys, I am not, repeat not, showing my mare Delta any of those videos.
If she gets the idea that she can do that to me I am done for. SHe would have me off for sure. She has the butt of a cart horse.

But maybe, if you Guys did not allow your horses any room to move the neck then the horse could not misbehave.
My Delta gets enough rein to do the job we have in mind at the time, then once she's done it, I take the length of rein back. She gets enough rein and that's all. She's allowed to stretch down once in a while - then back up comes that head - I can tell from her ears what's she's thinking. 
I even decide how long a stride she takes through the reins.

Control the head and neck, you have the horse. Where ever the head goes, the horse has to follow.

Barry G

There's more to this Western way of riding than I first thought.


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## xEquestrianx (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm going to have to agree on this one as well. If he was doing this at a slower speed, I would say one-rein him and send him off again, but in this case, id he starts acting up, push him really hard, even when he's getting tired, don't let him stop for a little while.


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

I had an leopard appy gelding that crow-hopped when asked to canter. Come to think of it - he crow-hopped when asked to trot...when asked to walk...when asked to do anything under the saddle, at least for the first half hour or so. I was a LOT younger and dumber back then and thought it was a bit funny. I just rode on through it and he would settle down...eventually...sometimes? 

I never could ride him without some initial antics and eventually sold him - after making sure that the new owner knew of his issues. He had also been "proud cut." Fortunately, the new owner wanted to use him as a teaser. Sure was a pretty horse...


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

xEquestrianx said:


> I'm going to have to agree on this one as well. If he was doing this at a slower speed, I would say one-rein him and send him off again


Stopping any bucking horse rewards the behavior.


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## dashygirl (Nov 21, 2006)

Yes, you've got to keep him moving, get his mind off of the excitement of being able to run a bit. After all, running is wonderfully exciting, who wouldn't want to jump around a bit and be merry? It doesn't sound like he's doing it to get you off, he's just got a peppy sort of personality. You can't punish him for that, can you?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

dashygirl said:


> It doesn't sound like he's doing it to get you off, he's just got a peppy sort of personality. You can't punish him for that, can you?


 Yes you can and you should. Any time you are near a horse you are training him. Allowing him to perform an unacceptable behavior is training him that it's OK to do that - and it never is.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Whenever I've ridden a horse that bucked, I always pushed forward and more or less "ignored" the behavior. It was never worth any attention. I pushed harder and kept asking for what I wanted and more, and eventually, the horse always stopped because it never brought them anything. Negative attention can be just as rewarding as positive attention.

It does sound like your horse is hopping to let off some energy. You can try doing lots of transitions. Show him that going up in a gait is no big deal because it doesn't always mean he can go for a run. You can try walking or maybe trotting down the places you would typically run so he knows it isn't always the same thing.

And as a side note, if I ask for a canter and the horse bucks or crow hops [my friend's horse does it ALL the time] before going into the canter, I WILL bring that horse back to a trot and ask for the canter again. To canter isn't good enough, the transition has to be smooth and contain nothing but a transition. It has never rewarded the bucking behavior by getting out of work, it just means we do a million trot to canter transitions.


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## ChevyPrincess (Aug 27, 2009)

The best advice I can give:

The two year old I'm looking into buying as trail horse likes to buck/ crow hop when asked to gallop. It might be becuase it's a new thing, but, I do know, that if you canter him up a hill, He can't buck, or crow hop. My trainer and I are going to work on that later today. But that's what he has done with his horses. And they have stopped. He also uses John lyons methods of Round Pen Reasoning.


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## dashygirl (Nov 21, 2006)

iridehorses said:


> Yes you can and you should. Any time you are near a horse you are training him. Allowing him to perform an unacceptable behavior is training him that it's OK to do that - and it never is.


Oops, no, no. I didn't mean it that way. What I was trying to say is that it could just be part of his personality, like smrobs said previously. I mean, it's not like you can totally change a horse's personality with vigorous training. 
I suppose my wording wasn't very good. 
And like you said in your post, your horses need a good warming up before you take them out. That's part of their personality, they're spunky! Yes, proper training and reprimanding when necessary is vital, as everyone has been saying here. In no way did I mean it is OK to let him continue this behavior.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

ChevyPrincess said:


> The best advice I can give:
> 
> The two year old I'm looking into buying as trail horse likes to buck/ crow hop when asked to gallop. It might be becuase it's a new thing, but, I do know, that if you canter him up a hill, He can't buck, or crow hop. My trainer and I are going to work on that later today. But that's what he has done with his horses. And they have stopped. He also uses John lyons methods of Round Pen Reasoning.


I would expect a two year old TO buck if asked to gallop. They are barely balanced enough to lope at that age under saddle.


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## Skeeter9 (Sep 3, 2009)

I agree. Definitely don't reward him for his behavior by letting him quit working. Of course, if you feel like you are going to come off, pull him down with one rein and quickly start over. He needs to understand that this behavior is absolutely unacceptable, so making him work harder when he does it should help him decide that it's not a good idea.


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## SavvyHorseman (Sep 4, 2009)

I would make a suggestion that you put him into small circles, on his back, whenever he does this. It will of course cause him to slow down, but it will also interrupt the behavior in general and cause him to perform a behavior instead of your choosing.

In this way you are neither letting him "Get away" with it nor are you stopping your inputs.

Essentially every time you ask him to run and he crow hops go into a small circle right wherever you are. Start with 2 or 3. Then head off again. If he does it again, go to 5 or 6 circles.

At some point he will dislike the pointless circles enough to realize that crow hopping brings them on.

This will all be pointless if his saddle doesn't fit though.

Check the front of his saddle and be sure that you can fit your fingers between the saddle and his shoulder. If not the saddle could be rubbing his shoulders enough at full extension that it's painful or annoying.

Hope that helps.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Barry Godden said:


> I asked the question, now I know. Thank you for the demonstrations.
> I can see the hopping. It is the crow bit that confuses.



Barry, the crow part refers to when the crows are hopping at something (ie, piece of food, something shiny) and showing dominance. They will hop at it, wings slightly spread and head way down. Crows and ravens are a lot like horses, a lot of people assume they are mindless animals of little brain, but they are complex social beings with a wide range of emotions. They even play and make tools (which I have seen them store away for later use). One time I saw a raven riding an elk just for fun. The elk bucked and tore around the field like mad and that bird held on for dear life. I swear he was even smiling. Sorry to hijack, just wanted to share a love of crows and ravens when presented the opportunity.


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