# This disgusts us...



## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

poor pony probably feels like he cant move forward with how tight the drawreins were. my mare didnt want to move the first time i put them on her either, but i loosened them and she was fine. But this chick just held them tight tight...poor pony =(


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Erm, that's a toughie to judge. She doesn't have tight draw reins - he's got a teeny little neck, and he's still fully capable of sticking his nose straight up when he's rearing. She's got some pretty decent skills to stick on him like that, and keep him balanced when he's freaking out and almost flipping wit her being so big on him.

I would wager to say he'd be pulling the exact same thing without them. The tone of the video tells me this pony has been a chronic rearer for some time now, and you don't know how long she's been riding him in draw reins. It COULD be the result, but it could just be him having another episode.

I would personally have done a few things differently, but I don't think it's anyone's place to tell this girl she did it WRONG. We all handle situations to the best of our ability.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I have to agree with MM. I probably would have done the same thing in the situation. What was that girl to do? Give up, get down and put her pony away? It was being naughty. You have to ride that out. Every time the pony went up, she released and I think the rein pulling once he was down was trying to get him going in any direction *but* up! 

I can see how these types of videos get taken as bad. The girl is obviously proud of her accomplishment. A little too proud. I don't see anything in that video that I wouldn't do.


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## countmystrides (Sep 9, 2010)

if you look she's kicking and pulling at the same time. She does lean properly, so that's _one_ plus. IF this was a pony that did this often, why would she be putting draw reins on him to begin with? He needs proper training beforehand. Draw reins can be serious and need to be used appropriately. It's a shame because he's too cute .


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## RandomHorsey (Oct 10, 2010)

I feel like punching someone now! one shes whearing pink(soz i hate the color) and two stop kicking and smacking your horse! get off take him through the area hes rearing at or lunge him kicking and smacking him till he goes forward arnt going to reach him not to rear!!!!


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

But by getting off of him...are you not teaching him that rearing works in getting out of work??


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## countmystrides (Sep 9, 2010)

i don't think getting off would solve his problem, but adjusting her training methods would. Her draw reins are on between the horses legs! Everytime she pulls the reins, that's pulling his head down, not to the side. It takes a very patient, responding horse to train with draw reins (used correctly). In the begining you can really see she's kicking and pulling his head downwards at the same time. It was clearly frustrating for the pony.


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## RandomHorsey (Oct 10, 2010)

then if she dosent get off she could get someone to lead or lunge the pony!you may beat him up till he is calm but that only makes him madder when you get him next time!


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

To me it looks like she is cueing the pony to rear.... or at least inadvertently teaching it to by kicking and flopping her arms each time....


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## countmystrides (Sep 9, 2010)

Randomhorsey, i don't understand what your saying. I wouldn't get off my horse or "beat up him" for rearing. I'd send him forward and teach him that's not okay.

Citrus, i agree..


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## RandomHorsey (Oct 10, 2010)

same
she probably is showing off
1.camea at the ight time
2.no ones helping her
3.well as u said loks as if shes cuing her pony to rear!


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## RandomHorsey (Oct 10, 2010)

countmystrides said:


> Randomhorsey, i don't understand what your saying. I wouldn't get off my horse or "beat up him" for rearing. I'd send him forward and teach him that's not okay.
> 
> Citrus, i agree..


she is sending him forward but while smacking and kicking him ant the answer mabe have someone lead him past the spot hes rearing at.
i agre with you tho i wouldent beat my horse up but i would get off.


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## RandomHorsey (Oct 10, 2010)

even tho it may teach him "hay this chick is off cause i reared"but if you dont feel safe on a horse get off dont stay on so he keeps rearing!


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

It looks to me like she is blocking him from moving forward by pulling back on him at the same time she is motioning him forward. It kind of looks like she wants him to do this for the camera.


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## SlickDirtyDancin (Jul 11, 2009)

I suppose she could definitely be doing this on purpose, it's probably the best explanation that can be found but still. It just looks a bit off to me.

ETA: Thinking about it though I still find it odd like others have mentioned how she's kicking him to go forward but pulling back. Most of the horses I've seen taught to rear are on a loose rein and pretty light cues.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

I would be she doesn't know what she's doing. She's asking him to go forward, and tightening her hands at the same time. She needs to give him head head, maybe bend him a little, and try and get that forward motion. We know NOTHING about the pony/rider background though, so it could be anything. He could be sick of that arena or have something pinching for all we know.

I don't see anything wrong with staying on, she has a pretty good seat! I would just change the way she is working with him IF other problems such as pain aren't at work. I don't feel "disgusted" by this video, it's not like she's abusing him.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^

This. I agree completely with Eliz. I would change aspects of what she's doing, she's definitely blocking his front door every time she asks him to step out which is only encouraging the rear. With a pony this hellbent on rearing, I'd be pulling that nose around and doing everything in my power to stop the rear and get those feet moving in ANY direction except up.

However, nothing about it disgusts me. We've all been young, we've all made training errors, and she's not hauling on his mouth, she simply isn't being as open as she needs to be to encourage forward movement.

*RandomHorsey* - from your very juvenile comments about disliking someone over a color, I can only assume your horses are holy terrors if you jump off every single time they misbehave. This pony is blatantly and obviously not rearing at SOMETHING and simply rearing because he thinks it's his only avenue. Getting off will prove nothing, as he is going to go right back to rearing when the next person gets on. Although I am not fond of how this girl is blocking her pony's front door, she is in NO way abusing or beating him - I think I can count three times he even gets popped with the crop. Maybe you should reserve judgment until you learn a bit more about training yourself.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

*Looks dangerous to me.*

I watched this twice. She is most definitely asking him forward and hauling him back at the same time. That pony isn't trying to avoid work. He might have started out that way, but by this point he is out of his mind and sees no escape but UP. It would serve no purpose except to further ingrain this automatic reaction and to endanger the rider's life to continue with these tactics. Do you want to win the battle or the war? If what she is doing is not successful afte many, many tries, she needs to get more creative and try something else. The pony is totally stuck mentally and sees no way to deal with it but to go up. This is one nasty and dangerous tug of war.


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Erm, that's a toughie to judge. She doesn't have tight draw reins - he's got a teeny little neck, and he's still fully capable of sticking his nose straight up when he's rearing. She's got some pretty decent skills to stick on him like that, and keep him balanced when he's freaking out and almost flipping wit her being so big on him.
> 
> I would wager to say he'd be pulling the exact same thing without them. The tone of the video tells me this pony has been a chronic rearer for some time now, and you don't know how long she's been riding him in draw reins. It COULD be the result, but it could just be him having another episode.
> 
> I would personally have done a few things differently, but I don't think it's anyone's place to tell this girl she did it WRONG. We all handle situations to the best of our ability.


 
She is pulling and kicking at the same time. Sure, the pony can stick his nose up _while he's rearing_.... she throws her hands forward and gives him a release.
I'm not going to judge without knowing all the details.. but all I see _in this video_ is a girl provoking a pony to rear. No matter how the pony got to this point, slapping draw reins on him is only exacerbating the problem.


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> However, nothing about it disgusts me. We've all been young, we've all made training errors, and she's not hauling on his mouth, she simply isn't being as open as she needs to be to encourage forward movement.


 
And I find this..... interesting. I find this video to be on the same level as the one with the little pony (breaking the pony). 
A quote from you on that thread : 
*Sometimes I feel we need to ignore "intentions" and focus on the level of suffering the animal is enduring - I don't think it makes it any more right to cripple and torture an animal just because you "didn't know any better". It's still abuse and the horse certainly doesn't differentiate between intention and ignorance.
*
How is this any different?? She has cranked the pony's head down in draw reins and is giving conflicting signals. The only place she is allowing the pony to go is UP.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

ImagineThat said:


> The only place she is allowing the pony to go is UP.


 
EXACTLY, and I'm pretty sure MM covered this. She needs to be directing the pony in another direction, ANY direction but up!

MM also said that it's not abuse, she'd just change the way it's dealt with. So, it's not as if the pony is being abused like in the other video. To me, you can't compare them. Those ******** in the other video probably know better, but are idiots... PURPOSELY making the horse aggitated for the sake of video. This girl however, is trying to deal with the problem the best way she knows how, and even if it's not YOUR way, it should not be bashed.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I wasn't going to post in this thread as I'm not sure it is appropriate to post a randome youtube video for critique without it being a member. Because of that, this thread may be removed at a later date.

I just wanted to post that as the owner of a chronic rearer, this girl is not doing a terrible job. She's making alot of errors, but as we all know, sticking to the saddle on a small pony is never easy. The barrel is so tiny that there just isn't much to hang on to. This pony is also popping a few bucks in between rears, which is probably why she's got such a hold on it's face. The draw reins appear to be ineffective on this pony. 

The kicking is not at all abusive, she's got the right idea, forward motion keeps those front feet on the ground, however the tight hold on his head isn't helping her situation. This pony is actually very dangerous and is going to severely injure someone if he's not handled correctly. I don't believe she's cuing that pony to rear.

She's trying to pop him with the bat to move him forward, but she's still holding the reins while doing so. It's not helping the situation either.

There are tons of things a person can do with a rearer, none of which seem gentle. 

I'm not in anyway advocating this video, nor the methods used it in. I'm just stating that if you've never dealt with an honost rearer, then you don't have a full understanding of the situation. The girl had the right idea but not the right moves or correct timing.

_Please note that as I mentioned earlier, this thread may be removed at a later time._


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

Eliz said:


> EXACTLY, and I'm pretty sure MM covered this. She needs to be directing the pony in another direction, ANY direction but up!
> 
> MM also said that it's not abuse, she'd just change the way it's dealt with. So, it's not as if the pony is being abused like in the other video. To me, you can't compare them. Those ******** in the other video probably know better, but are idiots... PURPOSELY making the horse aggitated for the sake of video. This girl however, is trying to deal with the problem the best way she knows how, and even if it's not YOUR way, it should not be bashed.


What is your definition of abuse?

I'm not saying the 2 videos are the same thing, but they are on the same level to me. This girl has cranked the pony's head down with draw reins and is kicking and pulling. How is that ok?? You could say the same about this video, that she is purposely agitating the pony to get him to act out. How do you really know that about either video?
I was pointing out that MM said to throw out "intentions" and look at the "suffering" of the animal. Just think it's odd that MM says that about the pony breaking video, yet doesn't see it in this one. This girl is no better, "good intentions" or not.


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> I wasn't going to post in this thread as I'm not sure it is appropriate to post a randome youtube video for critique without it being a member. Because of that, this thread may be removed at a later date.
> 
> I just wanted to post that as the owner of a chronic rearer, this girl is not doing a terrible job. She's making alot of errors, but as we all know, sticking to the saddle on a small pony is never easy. The barrel is so tiny that there just isn't much to hang on to. This pony is also popping a few bucks in between rears, which is probably why she's got such a hold on it's face. The draw reins appear to be ineffective on this pony.
> 
> ...


 
I have dealt with plenty of rearing horses, including owning a TB whose answer to everything was rearing. In fact, its the one in my avatar.

Yes, forward motion is key in getting over rearing. And thats why I don't understand why this girl has put draw reins on and is holding his face while asking him to go forward. If this video is even the slightest hint of how the pony gets ridden, I can understand why he rears. 
I would go back to ground work, get respect and control of his feet.... and teach a go forward cue. And any time that cue is given, said pony shouldn't even think about anything but MOVE.
No draw reins for sure. I wouldn't care what speed the pony decided to go at as long as it went forward when I said so. Once you get forward motion down, then you can worry about what speed.
I don't know that I would want to call this video "abuse", but I don't see anything productive. 
I have no problems with a crop either, but I would be inclined to use it right behind my leg instead of the shoulder.... plus this girl is yanking the pony in the mouth when she does use the crop. 
I think the way I just described (though not in complete detail) is fairly gentle.... and effective.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I agree she's doing a ton of things wrong. I'm just saying, she has the right idea, her execution is incorrect though. As for the draw reins, I'm not sure why she's using those. I will admit I did use a tie down with mine. It was helpful in keeping the height of the rear down, yet it was loose enough that it did not hinder his forward movement. (It was only used during flatwork)


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Sheesh, some people are harsh critics!

Firstly - Many, many people believe draw reins help with rearing as they encourage or make the head come down. We all know that to be false, but this girl is young, and I would venture a guess she was advised to try the draw reins by an older person who has been told draw reins work for years and years.

Secondly, she is NOT cranking the ponies head down. For a small pony, the head is not in that bad of a spot. 

*

Now - I, along with FP and MM don't think this is abuse, but I also see where she is going wrong. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, no?

The main thing is that she isn't unblocking his head enough to get the forward movement she is asking for. I don't know if it is ignorance though - She may be holding on to the reins for security - I know how hard it is to teach a scared young child to relax on the reins on a rearing pony. It is taught from a young age that reins are security and to let them go on a naughty horse takes a lot of courage. That is why a lot of horses start rearing in the first place - Well intentioned people holding too tight on the rein because it makes them feel secure.

I also don't think the pony is rearing at something - I think from what I see that it has a confirmed habit. 

I think this is a young girl trying her best to do what she can in a bad situation with some bad advice. I dont' for a second think there is any malice involved. 

Rearing is the most dangerous habit a horse can have. I saw a good friend of mine snap his should in half when the horse he was on as I rode toward him flipped over on him. 

If any horse i'm sitting on even thinks about rearing, I will do whatever it takes to keep those feet on the ground and redirect the mind - Mostly that is making the horse think it will die if it doesn't move forward. I growl for all i'm worth, give it a boot, whack with reins (I don't ride with a whip). I honestly don't give a hoot what the horse is thinking or feeling at that second, they WILL go forward and they WILL go NOW. 

After you avert the wreck, is the time to investigate possible causes, etc.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Because bucking out a miniature pony that's skeletal frame isn't designed to take even HALF of what's being slammed into it's back is exactly the same as attempting to correct a confirmed rearer.

The most ironic part? It's BECAUSE of crap like in the bucking pony video that you GET videos like THIS - kids trying to fix a colossal problem someone else created out of sheer ignorance and stupidity.

She is not cranking his face, watch the video again because that is ridiculous. No, she is not doing everything right, but she certainly isn't MAKING him rear - he is hellbent on rearing and she simply isn't offering him any other options. She is not beating him, she's not YANKING on him, she's doing her best to help fix an already man made problem by morons EXACTLY like in the bucking pony video.


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## countmystrides (Sep 9, 2010)

Look at :20 seconds. She pulled delibertly and then kicked at the same time. Although towards the middle she was sending him forward, that _one _time was still in the pony's head. You can tell he has no respect for her and has full intentions of leaving without her. His rears are now dangerous and should not be treated lightly. Rewatching this for a third time i think she did the wrong thing and shouldn't continue to treat this as she did. She should have got off and lunged him until he respected her again and then got back on to regain her dominance. Although i do not suggest always getting off and letting a horse get away with it. But i also believe that respect needs to be earned, not forced. Understand?


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## dedebird (May 21, 2010)

the video dosne't disguast me at all what disguasts me is the comments -_-* has anyone read them?!?!?!? (for the video itself LOL not here) everyone was like good job for staying on yada yada yada then one person comes along with critique and gets comments removed AND called a fat (insert bad word) american and all americans are fat (insert bad word) im like wooooow then apparentely she is a trained professional and going to the "biggest horse show in the world" so im like very pateriotic american so thats bad enough to call us fat american (insert bad word) but to be an amaaaaazing trained profesional GAAAAAH


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## ImagineThat (Sep 18, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Because bucking out a miniature pony that's skeletal frame isn't designed to take even HALF of what's being slammed into it's back is exactly the same as attempting to correct a confirmed rearer.
> 
> The most ironic part? It's BECAUSE of crap like in the bucking pony video that you GET videos like THIS - kids trying to fix a colossal problem someone else created out of sheer ignorance and stupidity.
> 
> She is not cranking his face, watch the video again because that is ridiculous. No, she is not doing everything right, but she certainly isn't MAKING him rear - he is hellbent on rearing and she simply isn't offering him any other options. She is not beating him, she's not YANKING on him, she's doing her best to help fix an already man made problem by morons EXACTLY like in the bucking pony video.


I didn't say the 2 videos were the same. I said they are pretty much on the same level to me. 
Regardless of if you understand what I mean....... I went to the actual video, and this girl has a jillion videos. Including this one, different pony, same ole girl provoking bad behaviour. If you can't see that she has this pony's head cranked to his chest while kicking.... then I don't know what to tell you. And the few times he goes forward, she freaking pulls on him.

Watch at about 45 seconds and on.

She may be able to stick to the saddle like velcro, but it certainly doesn't mean she's a good horsewoman. Oh, and if I am reading correctly, she is "breaking" the pony in the original video.... so maybe she is the one who created the problem after all. (note that I said _maybe, if I read correctly_, please)


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## Snookeys (Sep 23, 2010)

corinowalk said:


> But by getting off of him...are you not teaching him that rearing works in getting out of work??


I think she means get out of the saddle and on the end of a lunge line. That pony needs some groundwork, methinks?

I'd like to see this girl take on a 16 hand thoroughbred with those methods... yikes... I think she enjoys these little fits and takes them as an opportunity to show off...


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## Shalani (Jul 16, 2009)

The first could of been handled better , but we dont know the whole story.
That second vid didn't bother me.
We dont know the full story , yes she seems hard with her hands .... But I am too if a horse is trying to get their head down to buck
( the horse is usually bigger , but the lil ones can put out some big bucks too ) . 

I dont think his head was cranked down he has martingale on and its not too short ( he has the shortest chunkiest neck ever lol). There is times where he goes around nice gets his head and even gets a pat.

If you look at this vid he is going around nicely ..... Even with 5 legs at one stage haha






Each to their own .... I know sometimes I have been criticised by people who didn't know the entire reason for my actions.


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## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

ImagineThat said:


> I didn't say the 2 videos were the same. I said they are pretty much on the same level to me.
> Regardless of if you understand what I mean....... I went to the actual video, and this girl has a jillion videos. Including this one, different pony, same ole girl provoking bad behaviour. If you can't see that she has this pony's head cranked to his chest while kicking.... then I don't know what to tell you. And the few times he goes forward, she freaking pulls on him.
> 
> Watch at about 45 seconds and on.
> ...


 okay so I think this chick has some issues.
She is breaking the pony for the first time and whacking him with a bat. you just dont do that the first couple time you get on a barely trained stallion.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Cranking nothing. That pony is very skilled at placing his own chin on his own chest and SEVERAL times, she lifts the reins up in an attempt to stop him from evading. I see NO stranglehold, most of the time (second video) she has slack in the reins and it is HIM choosing to bend his neck so extremely to evade her.

Is she a brilliant horse woman? No. But we don't know the whole story, and I've been on more then my fair share of naughty ponies who'd rather pitch a fit then be worked if they can get away with it. Is it possible she's caused this behavior? Definitely - but I cannot fathom whatsoever how this is even remotely like an almost full grown man climbing on a miniature horse and slamming repeatedly onto his back. What would people say if someone did that to a yearling? They would FREAK. This girl is definitely a little big for this pony, but he's obviously a mature pony and more then big and sturdy enough to carry her while she trains him.

I can understand what you're saying, I just don't see the two videos being even slightly linked. This pony is not SCARED. He stands quietly with his ears perked many times, he's getting ticked, he's not being tormented by a bunch of over grown numbskulls.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I wasn't going to post in this thread as I'm not sure it is appropriate to post a randome youtube video for critique without it being a member.


This I totally agree with.

I realize there is a fine line between posting some random video to enjoy and posting a random video to critique. But come on people. Is it really necessary to post a video of someone you do not know for the sole purpose of ripping them apart because you do not agree with their technique?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Alwaysbehind said:


> But come on people. Is it really necessary to post a video of someone you do not know for the sole purpose of ripping them apart because you do not agree with their technique?


Amen, Amen, Amen.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Because bucking out a miniature pony that's skeletal frame isn't designed to take even HALF of what's being slammed into it's back is exactly the same as attempting to correct a confirmed rearer.
> 
> The most ironic part? It's BECAUSE of crap like in the bucking pony video that you GET videos like THIS - kids trying to fix a colossal problem someone else created out of sheer ignorance and stupidity.
> 
> She is not cranking his face, watch the video again because that is ridiculous. No, she is not doing everything right, but she certainly isn't MAKING him rear - he is hellbent on rearing and she simply isn't offering him any other options. She is not beating him, she's not YANKING on him, she's doing her best to help fix an already man made problem by morons EXACTLY like in the bucking pony video.


Exactly.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I realize there is a fine line between posting some random video to enjoy and posting a random video to critique. But come on people. Is it really necessary to post a video of someone you do not know for the sole purpose of ripping them apart because you do not agree with their technique?


Agreed.

Do y'all feel better and more superior for having ripped on a video of some child you don't even know? :?


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## MissyMay (Oct 9, 2010)

If she is trying to get the horse to buck on cue she sure got  it down to almost a key but if she is demoing a proper way to handle the situation now thats my best draw on the facts why the smile and the wordings she has on her vid.... other wise the horse could be making a statement but looks more like the first two... Take it from some one that has seen well mannered horses all her life...


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## MissyMay (Oct 9, 2010)

After watching another I find that she may be training the horse to walk on its back legs a few trots.... like some of the trained horse with the three rings!! Circus!


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## MissyMay (Oct 9, 2010)

ImagineThat said:


> I didn't say the 2 videos were the same. I said they are pretty much on the same level to me.
> Regardless of if you understand what I mean....... I went to the actual video, and this girl has a jillion videos. *Including this one, different pony, same ole girl provoking bad behaviour. If you can't see that she has this pony's head cranked to his chest while kicking.... then I don't know what to tell you. And the few times he goes forward, she freaking pulls on him.*
> 
> Watch at about 45 seconds and on.
> ...


She is a good horse woman she is trying to keep the head pulled back thats is what she trying to get the horse to understand no head forward they have different standards than western pleasure riding... etc... if she feels that that head is going to far forward she will pull back.... which the horse has to understand all this... its a lot of commotion to train theses horses...


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Do y'all feel better and more superior for having ripped on a video of some child you don't even know? :?


I believe in the beginning this thread was started for exactly the purpose stated above. There were many educational posts that followed and the thread became something that could have been used as a learning tool. However at this point in time, with the addition of many other videos, it's time to close the thread.


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