# Who in their right mind would name a horse Pogrom?



## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I am shocked that a breed organization would accept that name. 

And don't anyone try to tell me it's "just a word."

I'm sorry for your pain, DBA.


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## MySerenity (Jul 18, 2011)

out of curiosity, what do they claim is the different meaning? I just did a quick internet search and there was only one meaning I could find....

Was someone at the AHA just not paying attention or can people just use whatever names they want?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

They claim it means a beacon of light or something like that, and that the words meaning was used by anti semites to justify their actions.
I was approached by a friend about buying a breeding from this stallion.
What amazes me is the lack of concern by both the Janow Stud and Midwest Stables.
The poles have leased him here in the US to promote him before using him in their program. They know where the big money in arabians and the best horses bred are from.
I have boycotted german products for all my life. Looks like I have boycotted the wrong country.
This is something we can change and thankfully here in the US the Shoah is not a joke or a good choice for a horses name.
One of the replies I received was that only a Jew would be offended.
now that he is here in the US being promoted for the Polish program we can demand a name change. Shalom


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## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

Shouldn't it matter that a Jewish person would be offended? "Only a Jew" indeed.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

That is digusting!
I can think of a few terms used here in this country that would never, NEVER, make it past the initial registration request for for a name. Guess it just depends who is upset and insulted.
I wish you success with your protest. And please keep us informed.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

For more than a year I have wondered if I was overreacting.
At first I even bought the different meaning line of BS.
With the advent of the internet and the ability to access more than one source I am more than certain the Janow stud knew well what reaction might be expected and the definition most people would associate with the name.
I have visited a few of those death camps in Poland. It took me years to overcome the anger I directed at non jews for a long period of my life.
I understand it is only a horse and the name even if it is changed will not erase the motive or intent of such an insensitive name.
I do not want a breed that I enjoy to tarnished with a bad image. Or to see IBN pogrom, or bint pogrom, pogroms contorversy, or any other combination of the name in future generations of the breed.
I might not be able to force a change in his name but hopefully this protest of mine will prevent more insensitive names. Shalom


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> I just sent the AHA a very terse message and one to Midwest Training Stables.
> Now I am going beyond the arabian communtiy to the guys with the big money, lobbyist, and legal teams.
> I am notifiying the Anti Defamation League and the Jewish Defense Fund.
> To really make matters worse this horse is owned by the Janow Stud in Poland of all places. The Poles with their long history of anti semitism know very well what the word pogrom means.
> ...


DB, the name fits him very well. His temper SUCKS, pure and simple. Watch the video of David showing him, he NEVER holds a horse up under the chin, prefers a long loose lead line so the horse can show off. He was working hard to not become that horses lunch. Wouldn't breed to him on a BET.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

I'm not Jewish, and I am offended. So you can tell the jacka$$ who spouted that BS that he or she is totally wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

Please  Remember , there are polish folks here as well. 
And polish can be a tricky language, not as tricky as some. But none the less has its slang and pronutiactions that can really change the meaning. 
My busha and jaja are and were straight off the boat. And while I grew up around polish speaking family, I never really picked it up. Well not enough to form a sentence. 
I'm in no means upset, not in the least. But, youre looking at the name as offensive to YOU. where as a pole such as myself may find your conceren to be, well, your issue. 
I'm not trying to be rude, not in the least. Just saying that that was their choice, they chose it, and didn't ask you first. It happens. 
If you feel strongly about it, then continue on. I'm totally fine with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> DB, the name fits him very well. His temper SUCKS, pure and simple. Watch the video of David showing him, he NEVER holds a horse up under the chin, prefers a long loose lead line so the horse can show off. He was working hard to not become that horses lunch. Wouldn't breed to him on a BET.



Just watched videos of that horse too.....temperment is the pits.....pass.

Don't know much about the name deal, but it sounds very offensive indeed.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Phly said:


> Please Remember , there are polish folks here as well.
> And polish can be a tricky language, not as tricky as some. But none the less has its slang and pronutiactions that can really change the meaning.
> My busha and jaja are and were straight off the boat. And while I grew up around polish speaking family, I never really picked it up. Well not enough to form a sentence.
> I'm in no means upset, not in the least. But, youre looking at the name as offensive to YOU. where as a pole such as myself may find your conceren to be, well, your issue.
> ...


I grew up in Europe, Germany was just one place. We studied the Holocaust, and the horrendous toll Hitler and his Pogroms and Death Camps took on the Jews and those who helped them. I've been to Auschwitz and Birkenau and seen them. To name a horse Pogrom is akin only to naming one the N word or the C word. AHA would not allow that, and in their cluelessness, they've allowed a name that is no better. I'm certain no one will run the risk of offending Janow Podlaski by telling them to change the name. The horse has been very successful here, maybe it's time he went home.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Polish is not English. If you have even a vague familiarity with more than one language, you will realize that the same sounds will be used in two languages, but will have entirely different meanings. As for instance the name of China's Chairman Mao, the sound of which is approximately "dung". Or even within regional dialects of the same language: a slang term for a cigarette in Britain is an offensive term for a homosexual in the US.

So why should Polish-speaking people give up a perfectly good word in their language just because it sounds like an offensive word in some other language?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> Polish is not English. If you have even a vague familiarity with more than one language, you will realize that the same sounds will be used in two languages, but will have entirely different meanings. As for instance the name of China's Chairman Mao, the sound of which is approximately "dung". Or even within regional dialects of the same language: a slang term for a cigarette in Britain is an offensive term for a homosexual in the US.
> 
> So why should Polish-speaking people give up a perfectly good word in their language just because it sounds like an offensive word in some other language?


Try that logic on your girlfriend right after you call her the C word and see what it gets you.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I was born and grew up, during one of Hitler's wars. I really do understand, that unless one has truly been _in_ such a war, it for most, really doesn't mean a great deal. Nobody can understand what it is like, to hear those bombs coming down upon you, every night and for years. Look at a few war movies and listen to the whistle of the bombs and then imagine they might fall on your home any second. I won't go into more here, but none of you would want to see what I saw in England, during the war and as a little girl.

During my lifetime, I have been privy to see many movies of the Jews and the camps in which they were kept. These are movies which only a handful of people across the world have ever seen. They are still in a private collection. Seeing them would change your lives for ever. 

I can absolutely understand the feelings of our OP here. Whether or not it means much to many of us, the word means a great deal to the OP. The rest of us _really must_ try to understand that. I don't know the horse, but do hope the OP can obtain some satisfaction from her outrage and sadness.

Lizzie


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I highly doubt that the people who name the foals in Janow Podlaski named this colt to offend anybody. I'm with the theory of a different meaning. 
And I do wonder sometimes what all these Arabic names really mean and could be translated to......


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

Perhaps the name was not intended to offend anybody - and perhaps the meaning of that word is different where the owners/breeders are from. However, imho now that they are aware of the common meaning of the word here where they are trying to promote this stallion - perhaps they would do well to consider changing the name. I have to agree, there are certain names that wold never be allowed and perhaps this should be included.....


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I did a little googling and this is what I saw

Pogrom | Define Pogrom at Dictionary.com

Word Origin & History

pogrom 
1882, from Yiddish pogrom, from Rus. pogromu "devastation, destruction," from po- "by, through" + gromu "thunder, roar," from PIE imitative base *ghrem- (see grim).
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper 


While it was used as a term for the slaughter of peoples, the word did not come about strictly to define that.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

MsBHavin said:


> I did a little googling and this is what I saw
> 
> Pogrom | Define Pogrom at Dictionary.com
> 
> ...


 I found: from the Russian verb "gromit" meaning to destroy, to wreak havoc, to demolish violently. 
Seeing that the stallion obviously has character flaws, there could be the reason for that name. 
You Arab people maybe remember one of the best Polish mares ever shown, Pipi. Well, Pipi in German means Pee.........


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Regardless of what the word was intended to mean if I group of people is using it with offensive intent it's wrong. Period. 

For example, a guy in England says "Hey, do you have an extra ***?" he is merely asking for a cigarette. There is no offence backing the word, to my understanding. Across the pond when a little boy wants to be in a dance classes and his parents/siblings/friends call his "you stupid ***" that's wrong... And don't try to come back with saying "Oh, they are just calling him a cigarette". If you truely believe that they are just calling him a cigarette I really feel terrible for you as that shows just how naieve and ignorant you are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Some interesting registered names I found:

1. Little Hitler - JC made the owners change the registered name before his first race
2. No Fat Chicks - JC registered
3. ****** - Spelt backwards? AQHA registered
4. Date More Minors - JC registered

And my favorite: Comply or Die - JC registered


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

SlideStop said:


> Regardless of what the word was intended to mean if I group of people is using it with offensive intent it's wrong. Period.
> 
> For example, a guy in England says "Hey, do you have an extra ***?" he is merely asking for a cigarette. There is no offence backing the word, to my understanding. Across the pond when a little boy wants to be in a dance classes and his parents/siblings/friends call his "you stupid ***" that's wrong... And don't try to come back with saying "Oh, they are just calling him a cigarette". If you truely believe that they are just calling him a cigarette I really feel terrible for you as that shows just how naieve and ignorant you are.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


so with that, that means that you believe the stud owner is using it in the negative connotation which put you in a bad light since they very well could be using it in the term that I posted.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> "Hey, do you have an extra ***?" he is merely asking for a cigarette. There is no offence backing the word, to my understanding. Across the pond when a little boy wants to be in a dance classes and his parents/siblings/friends call his "you stupid ***" that's wrong...


just this. another example; "gay" originally ment, esensially, happy, but you wouldnt be likely to find a horse named "little gay dancer" or "gay secret" approved or accepted, as people would likely be offended. You can explain "it means happy secret" until your blue in the face, its not going to change the fact that some people wont like it, and will read the wrong message.

I grew up in a hugely multi cultural area, and its easy for meanings to get confused when various languages are involved. If you say the wrong thing, you applogise, make it right, and move on.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

MsBHavin said:


> so with that, that means that you believe the stud owner is using it in the negative connotation which put you in a bad light since they very well could be using it in the term that I posted.


Well, if the Poles have a long history of antisemitism I doubt they are using it to mean "distraction". Even if they aren't, there is obviously a STRONG correlation with the word in that country. Just like no one uses the word *** here with innocent intent, and I'm sure no one uses the word pogrom with innocent intent in an antisemitic place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Okay, now I feel offended because I think you called me stupid and ignorant. I feel offended because my mother was bombed out three times by American and British military during the war. I feel offended because my father died off his injuries from this war. I feel offended because dbarabians doesn't buy anything German NOW because of what happened many years ago,way before I was born. I could go on and on. 
I wouldn't have time to do anything constructive if I would have to constantly think about what offends me. 
If a horse's name is such a disturbance, don't use it for breeding and write a letter to the breeder asking for a name change. But please keep an open mind and give people the benefit of the doubt. 
And yes, I might not be politically correct, so hate me for that....after all, I am the German.....geez.....


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

BlueSpark said:


> just this. another example; "gay" originally ment, esensially, happy, but you wouldnt be likely to find a horse named "little gay dancer" or "gay secret" approved or accepted, as people would likely be offended. You can explain "it means happy secret" until your blue in the face, its not going to change the fact that some people wont like it, and will read the wrong message.
> 
> I grew up in a hugely multi cultural area, and its easy for meanings to get confused when various languages are involved. If you say the wrong thing, you applogise, make it right, and move on.


Your right "gay" means happy and joyous. If someone names a horse "gay dancer", cool. I'm gay, that doesn't offend me. If they name the horse "Gay Boy Killer", that is.... Wrong again! 

...ps, there will always be people who take things way out of context or take things over the top. I don't condone that either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

This makes me sad.

First, that (after doing a little research) it's pretty obvious what the widely recognized meaning of the word is. It's hard not to judge intent, but it is almost obvious that this is done with no good intentions.

Secondly, IF it was done to 'send a message' or offend people of a certain ethnicity, it makes me sad that it has so negatively affected a personal friend of mine.

dba .. if you believe the intent was to enflame ... DON'T LET THEM.

Yes, I would petition AHA, but I doubt they will change the name .. especially if he's already been bred.

I would boycott that horse, any of his get, and possibly barns associated with them ... but DON"T LET THEM STEAL YOUR JOY!

You can't control the actions of other folks, my friend, only your reaction to them.

It would be a shame to lose you as an AHA supporter .. and, again, let them win ... IF this was done with the worse intentions, what would they like more than to run the Jews off?

Poor horse .. with a name like that ..

Don't let'em get to ya, my friend. YOU have more value than some stupid, idiot, anti-semitic word.

Love you, man... *hugs*


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

SlideStop said:


> Well, if the Poles have a long history of antisemitism I doubt they are using it to mean "distraction". Even if they aren't, there is obviously a STRONG correlation with the word in that country. Just like no one uses the word *** here with innocent intent, and I'm sure no one uses the word pogrom with innocent intent in an antisemitic place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Oh! Well that just clears it up then! So you're saying that EVERY polish person (myself included) is an antisemitic! Thanks for filling me in on that, I'll have to let my dad know that he shouldn't have married a Jewish woman. *eyeroll*

Pogrom doesn't mean 'distraction' it means 'to destroy' and watching a video of said horse I could very well see why they'd have named him that. He seems like a PITA, who would take things on and 'destroy' them.


DB, since this name is highly offensive to you. Why not spend your time bettering peoples knowledge of the term vs trying to 'take on' the owner of the horse. I'd start with the high population of Aryan brothers in texas, vs one horses name.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I won't lose sleep over it, but I do find it in poor taste. 
However, this stallion is staying in the front of peoples minds so I can't help but think that was some of their intent.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

MsBHavin said:


> Oh! Well that just clears it up then! So you're saying that EVERY polish person (myself included) is an antisemitic! Thanks for filling me in on that, I'll have to let my dad know that he shouldn't have married a Jewish woman. *eyeroll*
> 
> Pogrom doesn't mean 'distraction' it means 'to destroy' and watching a video of said horse I could very well see why they'd have named him that. He seems like a PITA, who would take things on and 'destroy' them.
> 
> ...


NO, I'm not saying every last person in Poland has antisemitic views, I'm saying the country, as a whole, has those feelings or has had a history of those feelings towards Jewish people. It's no secret people in the middle east don't like gay people. Is it every single person? Probably not, but that is the typical view of the country. If anyone on this forum knows me and my political views I'm the last person to judge and lump people into categories. 

And yes, distraction was a auto correct oops. It should of said destruction. My. Bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

WSArabians said:


> I won't lose sleep over it, but I do find it in poor taste.
> However, this stallion is staying in the front of peoples minds so I can't help but think that was some of their intent.


I wouldn't even go that far, I guess a stablehand came up with it, because a name with the letter "P" was needed, his boss wrote it down, and it was copied by office folks, without even thinking. 
I think the blame is with the folks who brought him over here, where this word is a very sensitive matter, without at least trying to get his name changed. 
But I could be just too good for this world, not assuming bad intentions first, who knows...;-)


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

Unless we have a quote from the owners about why they named the stallion Pogrom, I'm not going to get too worked up about it. Yes, it can be taken in the wrong way; but a lot of things can. Everyone sees things differently. Becuase there is more then one meaning to the word it will be hard to prove their intent was to offend everyone who is Jewish. You can't just assume that was their intention.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I wouldn't even go that far, I guess a stablehand came up with it, because a name with the letter "P" was needed, his boss wrote it down, and it was copied by office folks, without even thinking.
> I think the blame is with the folks who brought him over here, where this word is a very sensitive matter, without at least trying to get his name changed.
> But I could be just too good for this world, not assuming bad intentions first, who knows...;-)


Off all the 'P' words though... Perhaps they should rename him ****off LOL


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

They knew what it meant .. please. I had to look it up, but to those that speak the language .. they know what it is.

That's like saying "halocaust" really just means "catastophe" ... we ALL know what it means.

And the 'even more innocent' definition of the word they are trying to explain it away with .. I can't even find.

In VERY poor taste, imo.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

MsBHavin said:


> I did a little googling and this is what I saw
> 
> Pogrom | Define Pogrom at Dictionary.com
> 
> ...


Found it for you.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Nope .. that is NOT the "even more innocent" definition that they are using to try to explain it...


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

No, that is the true definition. The others were what people were TOLD, not actual known definitions.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I know what the "origin" of the word is MB.. and I'm not going to argue with you.

When the original new articles came out about this stallion, his name, and the anti semitic meaning .. the word was explained away with another completely innocent polish definition. That is the one I can't find.

Trust me, I'm looking for an "innocent" reason someone would name a colt that ... besides being an idiot. I'm not finding it.. sorry.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

WSArabians said:


> I won't lose sleep over it, but I do find it in poor taste.
> However, this stallion is staying in the front of peoples minds so I can't help but think that was some of their intent.





deserthorsewoman said:


> I wouldn't even go that far, I guess a stablehand came up with it, because a name with the letter "P" was needed, his boss wrote it down, and it was copied by office folks, without even thinking.


I'm betting the owner chose the name because they KNEW it would cause a giant fuss which would only serve to heighten the name recognition of the stallion. 

Extremely poor taste and the registry should have been paying attention and refused to accept it as a name. 



dbarabians said:


> I have boycotted german products for all my life.


I don't think attempting to punish an entire country for the actions of *some* is in any better taste! 

I'm German-Italian and other than some hassle that's to be expected for having a German birth certificate while growing up in the US, nobody has ever treated me any differently just because I am of German descent and was born in Germany. My brother-in-law is Jewish and neither he nor any of his extended family has ever had an issue with my families heritage. They've happily stayed with me, educated me on the ins and outs of their religion as needed (as I wanted to provide them with appropriate meals and didn't have a clue what foods were or weren't allowed) and very graciously accepted my sister into their family. 

I never would have dreamed that in this day and age, especially after WW2 and all that occurred that people would CHOOSE to persecute others based on actions they had no part in and weren't even alive during the occurrence of.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Delfina said:


> I'm betting the owner chose the name because they KNEW it would cause a giant fuss which would only serve to heighten the name recognition of the stallion.
> 
> Extremely poor taste and the registry should have been paying attention and refused to accept it as a name.
> 
> ...


^^that!!


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Defina, Deseerthorsewoman, I have no issue with either of you. None with the German people as a whole.
If your grandfather, watched his wife and young children marched away never to be seen again or the uncle who at the age of 4 tried to run back to his father and was torn to pieces by dogs. How would you feel?.
After being stuffed into a train car for 3 days without food, water, sanitation, or facilities the death of my uncle showed the hundreds of people selected to "live" that they too would die.
My boycott is to honour my grandfather who survived 4 years in those camps and my uncle Sholmo.
Poles know very well the common meaning of the word Pogrom.
I also suspect that stallion is here in the US being promoted at such a young age by one of the best handlers to counter and adverse reaction to the name.
I can assure you and I think deserthorsewoman will back me up, that the German Stud, would never allow such a name offensive to jews.
The Poles suffered under the Nazis as well millions died.
I have recieved a message from the Anti Defamation League. They are shocked. 
I am proud of who I am. For that I will never apologize.
My grandfather instilled in his grandchildren that everyone must stand up not only for themselves but for others who are persuecuted as well.
Words cannot harm you physically. Words however do have power. Shalom


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

It was acknowledged.
*Pogrom :: Midwest
The paragraph "And there is the name"


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

so no one has to go the website that desert linked...



> *And Then There Is That Name*
> 
> Perhaps it was a measure of the attention Pogrom attracted when he arrived in the U.S., but his arrival in Scottsdale hit the mainstream press as well as Arabian publications—and the standard media noted not only his extreme Arabian beauty, but introduced a note of controversy as well. Why such a name as Pogrom, some of the news outlets intoned, given its association with the Holocaust persecution of the Jews? Even fans too polite to mention it wondered, and Aria International’s Jeff Sloan admits to having reservations at first. “I’m Jewish,” he says. “I lost family members, so it is not particularly pleasant to me. But no one in Poland had any intention of using the name in any derogatory way. If they had, it would be different, but they didn’t.”
> 
> ...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

How interesting that the word used for violent slaughter of innocent people can now mean an overwhelming victory, in a positive light, in modern Poland. It kind of makes me feel that they, as a nation, have never come to grips with their guilt in their past actions, and their collusion in many of the Nazi actions against the Jews.

It is kind of like how the Japanese did not educate their young folk on the history of their occupation of Korea and Manchuria, and their brutal treatment of those peoples, over many years, until somewhat recently. It was either simply not mentioned, or written of in language that made past actions seem quite reasonable. They had words more like 'liberate', then occupy, and "colonize" than subjugate.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Midwest has LONG been known for the quality of their creative writing. They've pimped this horse to many as the BE all and END all stallion for their mares. Let's hope he's done enough damage and goes home soon.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Midwest has LONG been known for the quality of their creative writing. They've pimped this horse to many as the BE all and END all stallion for their mares. Let's hope he's done enough damage and goes home soon.


Pimped is the right word and the 'drama' and 'theatrics' that surround some of these breeders is ridiculous.....all romanticism and fairy tales.........his poop is as stinky as my horses poop.....and his attitude stinks too. To be quite honest I think this is the kind of thing that gives Arabs a bad rep, people tend to think they are flighty and crazy.....that's what I see when I watch videos of him.

Just to add - I like Arabs......just not this kind.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

LOL .. Muppet .. I dont' know what video you are referring too (can't watch them at work) but I think Arabian Halter classes make them look stupid and flighty .. 

To someone who doesn't understand they look like flighty horses running around their handlers like frightened loo loos....


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I have seen the website and I refuse to accept the lame excuse given by Trela.
I also refuse to accept his claim that he is surprised by the reaction to the name.
Want to discuss meaning of words. the word Holocaust is greek it means burnt offering. We jews who do not believe in human sacrifice use the word Shoah.
It means great catastrophe..
I am fairly certain if the jewish community started a protest and booed everytime Boggs entered the arena with that horse or any other he would change his tune. Fast I might add.
There are plenty of wealthy jewish arabian owners and breeders. Back that up with the fact that Jewish americans hold the most wealth of any group in this country even though we are less than 10 million. I bet Boggs changes his tune. Shalom


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

My mother is Jewish, so technically I am altho I have am Christian by my choice, and I asked her how she felt. She said that she chooses to look at these incidents as a way to never forget. She also understands the outrage, but she uses it to point out victories _especially in Poland such as the resistance at the Polish ghetto Mila 18._ Without their bravery and endurance and the diversion of nazi troops the outcome in Europe may have been vastly different, just a different point of view. I do find the name not so much offensive, as tasteless and classless.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I doubt much will happen to the name since, if he's already got foals with points, doesn't that mean he cannot change his AHA name?

Boycott the breeder, dont breed, buy or support the breeders. But to drag a gorgeous stud through the mud over a name he cannot help, is asinine.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

6 gun... Your mother sounds very wise...


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

MsBHavin said:


> I doubt much will happen to the name since, if he's already got foals with points, doesn't that mean he cannot change his AHA name?
> 
> Boycott the breeder, dont breed, buy or support the breeders.* But to drag a gorgeous stud through the mud over a name he cannot help, is asinine*.


I've not heard a single person drag the stallion through the mud OVER HIS NAME.

dba is upset with those who named him.

I believe those that said anything negative about the horse .. spoke only of his rotten dispostion ..

*shrug*


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

texasgal said:


> I've not heard a single person drag the stallion through the mud OVER HIS NAME.
> 
> dba is upset with those who named him.
> 
> ...


Sure they have, this whole thread is full of that. This is no different than posting a stud (not owned by a forum member) to talk about breeding qualities. Disparaging remarks over a horses name (who wasn't named by current owner/leasor) to which cannot be changed. I'm sure if the stallion owner saw this thread, the fit would hit the shan.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

oh brother..


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> How interesting that the word used for violent slaughter of innocent people can now mean an overwhelming victory, in a positive light, in modern Poland. It kind of makes me feel that they, as a nation, have never come to grips with their guilt in their past actions, and their collusion in many of the Nazi actions against the Jews.


Well, aren't _you_ just a bastion of kindness and understanding. 

Tell me Tiny, have you as an American come to grips with _your_ guilt in what the US did to the Japanese Americans in WWII? How about the African Americans, oh, pretty much from our country's inception right up until the late 1960s?

How noble of you to point out flaws in OTHER countries and their people. None of our countries is guiltless, and if you're going to point fingers at what another culture is or isn't guilty of, you'd better take a good hard look at yourself as well.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Um ... we as Americans don't call "slavery" an "overwhelming victory" ... and "internment camps" aren't "playschools" ...

I think, as a nation, we have called it like it was. Even when I was a kid, I learned about the evils of slavery and the WWII internment camps ...

And .. Gollllleeeeee ... I live in the SOUTH!


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Btw TexasGal, here's a little light reading for you.

here's the word in a Polish newspaper talking about sports: Lekkoatletyka: pogrom sztafet - Sport - WP.PL

LEKKOATLETYKA: Mitingi, wyniki. Lekkoatletyka na IO londyn 2012 Przegladsportowy.pl

Pogrom sztafet - Pekin 2008 - SportoweFakty.pl


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

MsBHavin said:


> Btw TexasGal, here's a little light reading for you.
> 
> here's the word in a Polish newspaper talking about sports: Lekkoatletyka: pogrom sztafet - Sport - WP.PL
> 
> ...


THank yoU! I was actually looking for that and couldn't find it ..! (I guess I FAIL at searching in polish..)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Well, aren't _you_ just a bastion of kindness and understanding.
> 
> Tell me Tiny, have you as an American come to grips with _your_ guilt in what the US did to the Japanese Americans in WWII? How about the African Americans, oh, pretty much from our country's inception right up until the late 1960s?
> 
> How noble of you to point out flaws in OTHER countries and their people. None of our countries is guiltless, and if you're going to point fingers at what another culture is or isn't guilty of, you'd better take a good hard look at yourself as well.


you crack me up!
I lived 3 years in Japan. And , it was always an uncomfortable discussion topic, mostly due to our use of Nuclear bombs. I agree that none of our countries are guiltless. But I was talking about how a nation portrays it's own history.

Have I come to grips with my guilt? I don't' personally have any guilt for those actions. I was not there, had nothing to do with them. We are talking about nations, not persons.

Has the US come to grips with its' actions? I think there has been a ton of discussion and honest , open airing of what happened to Japanese Americans. Discussion of reparations have been made. There is NO attempt to hide what happened, and most will openly admit it was a cruel mistake.

Same with slavery. We do not hide the history of slavery from our school children.

We certainly should continue to seek to be open minded to learning the truth of our nation's ugliest moments. Such as our actions in the Phillipines, and the middle east and so on.

But, do I , personally , feel guilty? not really.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Just to make my stance clear - 

1. Beautiful horse
2. Questionable temperament
3. Terrible name

No mud slinging - just an unfortunate combination of factors.....now I wonder if the horse was from another country such as Australia or Canada and it was named Pogrom because it was a Polish Arab would there be an outrage??


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

My anger is not at the Horse. I am pretty sure we wont get the registry to change his name.
I can ensure that the any arabian horse owner thinks twice before naming a horse such a controversial name.
I petitioned the AHA to change the name of one of my mares.
Her name is Blacklady Charabi. That IMO is racist.
Poland still has anti semitism ingrained in their culture.
More than one prominent politician has had to strenously deny that he was jewish. If Poland was such a tolerant country that would not be necessary.
I have gone to Poland with my grandfather at Aushwitz while praying kaddish for the dead we were heckled and laughed at.
I am serious about the vocal protest at the shows Midwest attends. Shalom


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

From a friend
"BTW, I work with a Polish woman (actually from Poland, not even sure if she is a naturalized citizen). I asked her what this word means to her. She gave the destroy, etc definition.
I then explained to her the drama of the thread.
With no prompting she said that she would guess the Polish person naming the horse never thought of how others would take it, that the work pogrom is an every day ordinary word over there. Not a word with some super secret meaning or slang. It just means destroy."


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> How interesting that the word used for violent slaughter of innocent people can now mean an overwhelming victory, in a positive light, in modern Poland.


Stop and think a minute. Polish is a different language in which those syllables have - and always have had - an entirely different meaning.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> Defina, Deseerthorsewoman, I have no issue with either of you. None with the German people as a whole.
> If your grandfather, watched his wife and young children marched away never to be seen again or the uncle who at the age of 4 tried to run back to his father and was torn to pieces by dogs. How would you feel?.
> After being stuffed into a train car for 3 days without food, water, sanitation, or facilities the death of my uncle showed the hundreds of people selected to "live" that they too would die.
> My boycott is to honour my grandfather who survived 4 years in those camps and my uncle Sholmo.


You have no issue with the German people as a whole but yet you feel they shouldn't be able profit monetarily simply because they are of German Descent. That's not respect, that's revenge. Nothing illegal about it but is it morally right to tell an individual that you will not patronize his business or buy goods made in his factory simply because he is of German Descent and lives in Germany? Nobody asked him at birth "What country do you want to be born into? Who would you like to have as Ancestors?" 

Do you also boycott American-made goods? Our treatment of slaves wasn't a whole lot better. Internment camps? While they were nowhere near as brutal or deadly, they still weren't a very humane way to treat people whose only crime was their ancestry.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> Want to discuss meaning of words. the word Holocaust is greek it means burnt offering. We jews who do not believe in human sacrifice use the word Shoah.
> It means great catastrophe..


The (lower case) word holocaust is frequently used in English, for instance describing the effects of a large fire, entirely separate from "the Holocaust" (capitalized), a specific historic event. If you go back to the Greek roots, it literally means entirely (holo) burned (caust).

Probably 95% of English speakers would not know what you meant if you used the word "Shoah", or might think it was dialect "Sho enuf". Again, different languages.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Pogrom - Bing Images

Actually it is a Russian term I believe?

And no matter how you slice it? It IS offensive...I was mad just reading the thread title.

Be the same as if they named it Nazi, Hitler, or pedophile.

Some words are offensive as hell no matter what they are. This is one of them.

And for anyone that thinks the word is NOT offensive?

Click on the link above for the pictures of those killed in a "pogrom" and then tell me it is a great word.

And if link won't work? Type in "pogrom" and you can go view the dead.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

dbarabians said:


> I have seen the website and I refuse to accept the lame excuse given by Trela.
> I also refuse to accept his claim that he is surprised by the reaction to the name.
> Want to discuss meaning of words. the word Holocaust is greek it means burnt offering. We jews who do not believe in human sacrifice use the word Shoah.
> It means great catastrophe..
> ...


 Now THERE'S a way to handle it. Since Trela is not here, but Boggs is. 
I still don't see where it is the horse's fault, tho. If he has bad character will come out eventually. Such news travel fast in the Arabian horse world. But even that is to be taken with a grain of salt. More than sometimes it's the handler, not the horse. 
I still don't think the horse was named like that for the sole purpose of hurting feelings. I'm convinced it was a stupid mistake. I'm also convinced it will take the above mentioned measures for them to realize.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I only read this page. I had to look up the meaning of the word and I can see where a person might find the name offensive.

My geuss regarding the registry is that when the application is received they run it through a database to see if it's already been used and then probably make sure it's not vulgar and that it meets a certain criteria (number and type of characters). I doubt they look up the meaning. 

That being said, I would geuss the person doing the naming didn't realize the impact and though it was a really cool polish sounding name. 

After saying all that, if you truley are offended, then I think you should write a letter to the association... You never know... they might take notice, they probably won't do anything but still...They may invoke a rule change... Who knows?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

If you plan to campaign your stud in another country, as a consumer "product" , you'd better take real care as to how you name it. Whatever it might mean in a dictionary in Poland, here it has a very negative meaning, and it is not reasonable to expect people to just ignore it. It's going to be offensive here.

Of course, the owners have every right to name the stud what they will, but they shouldn't be surprised when they bring him here, that it will elicit bad feelings.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> I only read this page. I had to look up the meaning of the word and I can see where a person might find the name offensive.
> 
> My geuss regarding the registry is that when the application is received they run it through a database to see if it's already been used and then probably make sure it's not vulgar and that it meets a certain criteria (number and type of characters). I doubt they look up the meaning.
> 
> ...


Well considering the horse was born overseas, and from what it appears to be in POLAND it makes sense he was named with a Polish word...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> If you plan to campaign your stud in another country, as a consumer "product" , you'd better take real care as to how you name it. Whatever it might mean in a dictionary in Poland, here it has a very negative meaning, and it is not reasonable to expect people to just ignore it. It's going to be offensive here.
> 
> Of course, the owners have every right to name the stud what they will, but they shouldn't be surprised when they bring him here, that it will elicit bad feelings.


You don't know that the breeders planned on him coming to the US. Should the owners name all their horses in names not offensive to people in the US in the possibility they _might_ be imported here?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> You don't know that the breeders planned on him coming to the US. Should the owners name all their horses in names not offensive to people in the US in the possibility they _might_ be imported here?


 
No. But if they want to maximize their success here, they'd best think about it. It's only smart business and respectful international relations.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

That's not entirely true. He seems to be doing well in the ring, he's a gorgeous horse, and his owner is entirely very pleasant to speak with. I doubt that the name is holding him back any.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I just did a google search, he has quite the foal crop, all are stunning. One has even been named Sir Pogrom. With quality, you can easily look past the name, especially since the word (in Poland) is not a negative thing. If the horse had been named Pogrom Żyd then I could understand being extremely upset. But as it's been pointed out, a couple different times, Pogrom means damaged. It doesn't mean 'kill all jewish people' or 'damage all americans'. It simply means damaged. This word will only upset you if you let it, getting crazy and ****ed and calling lawyers, and saying you are going to revoke your membership seems a little out there. If you're upset about Pogrom, are you also upset about blue tic **** hounds?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Delfina what makes you think I boycott any businesses owned by people of german descent? Here in america?
I do not buy products made in Germany. I know of a lot of Jews that do not.
You do not share my families history so I dont expect anyone to understand.
I dont care if it upsets anyone.
The thought has occurred to me to name a foal the hebrew word for non jew to see if the AHA allows it.
The modern translation is accepted world wide. Non jews proudly call refer to themselves with the word. It still means someone who is unclean but that should not offend anyone. Should it?
I am indeed angry. It is deep rooted and this careless offensive name has indeed triggered resentment in my self.
Anger is a second hand emotion it comes from fear.
I fear that my children and grandchildren will still feel the sting of anti semitsm.
Is that such a bad thing? I think not.
Yes I will pursue this. I have talked to my Rabbi, contacted some powerful organizations we might even get the Israeli government to protest this.
I will keep you informed. Shalom


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> Delfina what makes you think I boycott any businesses owned by people of german descent? Here in america?
> I do not buy products made in Germany. I know of a lot of Jews that do not.
> You do not share my families history so I dont expect anyone to understand.
> I dont care if it upsets anyone.
> ...


I'm not one to get into religious things, but I feel someone may have a chip on their shoulder..... 
One that may be slightly extreme. 
Hey I'm ok with that, it's the Internet. But if you were my neighbor and and felt and acted the way you come across, you'd be be buying polydent by the case. 
I have no issue with Jews. We actually lived right down the road from one of y'all's mosks. 

Im a polish hillbilly married to a German, do you think maybe you're dragging on a long lived battle? 


Seriously seems petty to me. But feel free to go all politically correct. 

And I'm out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Your tone and remark about a "mosk" are the only things petty that I have noticed on this thread. Your ignornace alone justifies any attitude you think that I have.
i dont care who you are or who you are married to , You are the one with a chip on your shoulder and I assure you if I was your neighbor I would still have all my teeth.
The problem lies with you. Your deep rooted antisemitism is your problem not mine.
Since anger is indeed based in fear... why are you so frightened of me?
People like you are the reason I am protesting this horses name.
My grandfather had 18 children, 14 of them lived to adulthood. All were educated and financially sound. He regained his lost business and when he died at the age of 105, he left all his many grandchildren a very nice inheritance.
Living well is the best revenge.
All I feel for you and others like you is down right pity. Justified it seems.
Your post in no way has angered me. It does however prove that I am right in this instance.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Uh, I do have to ask where you read antisemitism in Phly's post db? Because he misspelled mosque?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Howclever jews do not worship in a mosque. thats how. Shalom


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

You're right. So does the fact that I had a lapse in memory and forgot that for a moment myself mean that I too am an anti-semite?


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

HowClever said:


> You're right. So does the fact that I had a lapse in memory and forgot that for a moment myself mean that I too am an anti-semite?


Apparently..... right along with EVERY individual that lives in Germany. :-x


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Delfina I have posted that I have no problem with most Germans and I also admitted that perhaps I was boycotting the wrong country.
My reasons for the boycott have been plainly posted. I do not expect you or anyone else to understand. Nor do I care if it upsets you.
i do it to honour my grandfather and the son he watched torn to pieces by dogs. If you find that unreasonable that is not my problem.
i will not explain this again. You do not have to accept it. I will however continue the practice until I take my last breath. Hopefully my children will live in a world they can raise my grandchildren in that is free of the hate my people have experienced for 2,000 years.
howclever I sent you a PM.
Shalom


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Too hot to handle. Closed for review.


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