# Horse Hates Bits



## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

He's lacking education. It's not that he doesn't like the bit, he doesn't know how to react to it. I'd also be looking at your hands. 

If you leave to pack the bit, what does he do. Just leave him tied with the bit in. Does he settle? Can you flex him on the ground, ground drive him, or lunge in side reins? Are you trying to ride him on contact or loose? Have you found a bit that he is more comfortable in? What are you using now?

I'd there anyone who can come help put a mouth on him? You need soft(not loose!), tactful hands to teach him since he already had a bad impression.


----------



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

etrnlflame said:


> He doesn't like it controlling him, and he sometimes nods irritably, or chomps, or tosses his head.
> 
> He doesn't like to take the bit when tacking up.
> 
> ...


Sounds like he is young and green. 

Sounds like he has not learned what is expected of him.

If you feel like you are not sure how to proceed with him, then I would advise taking hands-on lessons with an experienced trainer who can show you how to make him accepting of contact and how to respond to it. Doesn't matter if it's bit or bitless -- he still needs to learn what you expect of him. 

Getting a horse soft and quiet in the bit takes a lot of timing and feel from the rider. That is best learned in-person from someone who can give you instant feedback on the situation.


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

So you refer to this bit or that bit....
But, are you using the same type of mouthpiece?
Maybe what he objects to is not having a bit but the bit itself and what it does inside his mouth to his mouth structure...

And, I would expect the horse to fuss some if he never wore a bit before....a foreign "thing" stuffed in his mouth...
Let him pack a well-fitting bit around for a hours at a time...
He will quiet his mouth action...
Now educate his with what is expected of him with that bit... somehow you have been riding and controlling him when riding. Slip the bit on and that over the top and teach him "softly" by using bit reins and whatever else you use to ride and steer him around conveying your wants...

And lastly.... could you be reading to much into his fussing...
He seems to fuss with near everything you use on his head...or do with him.
Sometimes we stress and worry to much and create more issue than there actually is...
With limits to this thought of you not being cruel but dominant... your horse must learn to ride with a bit, or hackamore/bitless as that is how horses are ridden.
Yes, that may mean he is "unhappy".
It means he gets over it....he sounds like he has some behavior issues of intolerance and you cater to his mood and attitude...
Try being tougher in your attitude, let him fuss, ignore his 'tude and see where it gets you and him. 
No reaction and fussing from you he just might stop his nonsense and settle down. 
Also called... he's got your number and now you need to get his...
Possible??? :shrug:
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo...._


----------



## etrnlflame (Oct 24, 2013)

I actually like the idea of leaving him tied with the bit. He's been in a training program for about 2.5 years, so he should be over it by now. Part of the problem is that I bred and raised him, so he's a bit slower on behavioural training because I'm his "mommy".

Thanks!


----------



## etrnlflame (Oct 24, 2013)

horselovinguy said:


> So you refer to this bit or that bit....
> But, are you using the same type of mouthpiece?
> Maybe what he objects to is not having a bit but the bit itself and what it does inside his mouth to his mouth structure...
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your thoughts, I have been finding that he shakes his head mostly whenever he's just standing on a loose rein. And he definitely does it to make a statement, because even if I tell him no, he starts up again seconds later. I've tried full cheek, universal, loose ring, copper, anatomic copper that keeps the pressure off of his tongue, nathe that is soft and bendy because it's plastic... The only thing that I'm thinking that I haven't tried is a leather bit. He does seem to do it more when he has absolutely no contact (I have been working with him with little to no contact for the past month, and even before that I'm always conscientious not to be hard on his mouth). He's been in competitive training for 2.5 years, so there's not really an excuse for his shaking at this time.

It IS a bit annoying, because this guy has endless patience for trouble. If you wait him out he'll happily keep doing whatever is annoying you long-term, hah. So I've tried the waiting it out, but he's one of the few horses that doesn't get bored of his antics.

As I replied to someone else, I'm thinking that I just have more of a long-term problem mostly because I'm his "mommy" from birth, and he doesn't have as good of behaviour with me as, say, my mare that I bought as a two-year-old.

Thanks for the thoughts! I'll put it aside and hope he grows out of it ^_^


----------



## bellagris (Dec 6, 2010)

Can I ask if the opening of his mouth is short? I have a gelding who rides best in a halter, but for shows must wear a bit...he cannot take anything without a port because his actual opening is smaller and so the bit cant sit as high up in his mouth...therefore anything with tongue pressure is abhorrent to him. I put a ported snaffle in his mouth and he goes happy as a clam. My equine dentist missed this. Oftentimes...well most of the time, it is lack of training and acceptance of the bit...but sometimes it is a physical issue.

add...I tried a small port and it still did not work -I had to get a medium port to find any acceptance from him. It sounds a lot like behavioural, but horse is uncomfortable it can look that way too. Worth checking


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I am quite sure you have a training problem, and not a bit problem.
Bits don\t \control' horses, but the correct trained response, far as acceptance and proper communication do
You say he does not 'deserve' bittless, which sorta tells me that a bit to you, is a control solution, and you are not going to find a 'magic bit', that is going to fill in the proper training with a bit, using feel, knowing when to hold and drive and when to reward and release
A loose rein is the end product, on a horse that is first taught how to correctly give to a bit, tot he point that bit barrier can then be dropped and the horse ridden off of legs and seat alone, while staying correct.
Got to finish kindergarten, before going to college!


----------



## etrnlflame (Oct 24, 2013)

Smilie said:


> I am quite sure you have a training problem, and not a bit problem.
> Bits don\t \control' horses, but the correct trained response, far as acceptance and proper communication do
> You say he does not 'deserve' bittless, which sorta tells me that a bit to you, is a control solution, and you are not going to find a 'magic bit', that is going to fill in the proper training with a bit, using feel, knowing when to hold and drive and when to reward and release
> A loose rein is the end product, on a horse that is first taught how to correctly give to a bit, tot he point that bit barrier can then be dropped and the horse ridden off of legs and seat alone, while staying correct.
> Got to finish kindergarten, before going to college!





Smilie said:


> I am quite sure you have a training problem, and not a bit problem.
> Bits don\t \control' horses, but the correct trained response, far as acceptance and proper communication do
> You say he does not 'deserve' bittless, which sorta tells me that a bit to you, is a control solution, and you are not going to find a 'magic bit', that is going to fill in the proper training with a bit, using feel, knowing when to hold and drive and when to reward and release
> A loose rein is the end product, on a horse that is first taught how to correctly give to a bit, tot he point that bit barrier can then be dropped and the horse ridden off of legs and seat alone, while staying correct.
> Got to finish kindergarten, before going to college!


When I say "does not deserve bitless", it's not that I need the bit for leverage, but he has the attitude that when there's an opening, he'll take it. For example, I often ride with a crop and don't use it, but simply having it tells my boy that that door is closed. If he thinks he can get away with something, he will. He'll untie himself because he knows it's trouble, he'll bite my boot laces and rip them off because he knows I don't like it... he does his job very well, but if you change something up on him he'll give you some trouble.

bellagris, I've used a Neue Schule Verbindend bit to get the pressure off of his tongue, and he seems to shake his head either the same, or a little bit more. So because he didn't even have a small improvement, I think the pressure on his tongue isn't the problem  I've been switching back and forth between a regular and the Verbindend just to see if I can notice a difference.

Talking this through with all of you has fairly convinced me that it's just his attitude. Like I said, he does it the most when he has a loose rein/no contact, usually when he's just standing and gets bored. My trainer has been working a ton with me on balance in the saddle, and therefore I've had a very loose rein, so if it does have anything to do with my hold on his mouth it should be going away. My gelding is the equivalent of a puppy, and has a very ADD personality, so I think tossing his head with the bit is a behavioural issue I'll just have to ignore. So long as he does the job, right? He just won't shine in flat classes or anything dressagy until he matures out of it *sigh*


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Your horse reminds me of mine -- she's a fusser and a pawer, eats her reins, unties ropes, fidgets. You know what helps her? Two things. One, being tired. Spend a few hours trotting up hills and when it's time to stand still, she's happy to stand. We tweaked her bit last year until we found the least fidgety one, a 3 piece snaffle with a copper bean. When we work in the arena these we are really working, lots of driving into the bridle, moving the energy forward. She has to concentrate and so do I. The more concentrated I am, the more focused she becomes, and the less fussing she does. 

She does flap her lower lip when she's working hard on something new. I used to think something was the matter with her . . . then I noticed I whistle tunelessly through my teeth when I'm working hard on something new . . .


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, a horse has to both accept contact, when it is applied, thus giving in the face and poll, waiting for that release, versus demanding it, and not just insist on a loose rein
I do not see what working on your balance, has to do with riding with a loose rein, unless you were balancing on the reins, and thus his mouth
Your coach should be working on you developing an independent seat
Head shaking can become a habit, and horses are creatures of habit, LOL!


----------



## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I would think a lot about _when_ the horse actually does the behavior.

If the bit isn't comfortable to wear at all, the horse will object and show signs of discomfort all the time. This discomfort will get worse when the bit is in play, so for instance I would consider a horse unhappy with the bit if they looked grumpy and shook their head while walking along, AND this escalated to more protesting when the bit was applied.

If it is either that the bit action itself or the rider's hands are at fault, the horse will show the most displeasure and discomfort when the bit is in play. So the horse might carry the bit nicely when neutral but react with head tossing or chomping whenever the rider pulls on a rein or applies the bit action. This also may be a sign of a training issue where the horse does not understand or accept the bit.

If the horse responds softly to the bit when it is applied, and also holds the bit on the tongue and has a pleasant expression a lot of the time while being ridden but occasionally shakes the head or chomps on the bit, I would attribute these things to something other than the bit. Some things that can cause this behavior are an uncomfortable bridle that rubs somewhere or presses on a nerve, a horse that does not like sweat running down the face or the wind/rain on the face, or horses that show anxiety or emotion by chomping or head shaking. 

Some horses will carry a bit nicely and well, but will chomp on it when nervous about something in the environment. Some horses will also shake the head in response to the end of an exercise, at another horse they are signaling dominance over or are frustrated with, when feeling frustrated or over stimulated.


----------



## etrnlflame (Oct 24, 2013)

Avna said:


> Your horse reminds me of mine -- she's a fusser and a pawer, eats her reins, unties ropes, fidgets. You know what helps her? Two things. One, being tired. Spend a few hours trotting up hills and when it's time to stand still, she's happy to stand. We tweaked her bit last year until we found the least fidgety one, a 3 piece snaffle with a copper bean. When we work in the arena these we are really working, lots of driving into the bridle, moving the energy forward. She has to concentrate and so do I. The more concentrated I am, the more focused she becomes, and the less fussing she does.
> 
> She does flap her lower lip when she's working hard on something new. I used to think something was the matter with her . . . then I noticed I whistle tunelessly through my teeth when I'm working hard on something new . . .


Wow so I'm not alone! This is 90% my horse! Hah. He chews his reins, which drives me nuts because they're nice Antares rains, bites everything in sight... I only ever use three piece snaffles on him that are all copper, so hopefully I'm doing something right there.

The best help is to hear from someone with my problem. I love your little realizations where you understand where your horse is coming from. I'm going to start looking for those


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes, some horses can be mouthy, esp young geldings.
My Einstein was that way. In fact, once when he was about three, I took him to ride out in our hayfield, which has a wire gate you need to get off to open ( I hate those gates, but another subject! )
Anyway be the time I got that gate un done, pulled enough to get slack, get the post out of that bottom wire , and the top wire off, he had chewed almost completely through my 200 dollar horse hair mecate reins on my bosal
he also would play with his rope when tied, un do himself, ect, BUT, that has zero to do with bit acceptance, and a quiet compliant mouth, when ridden
Tow issues are being confused here- a young hrose, esp a gelding, who retains some stallion like instincts, thus can be mouthy, and ahorse, that doe snot accept a bit, being pushy, mouthy, pulling, chewing ect. They are not one and the same!


----------



## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm really surprised and puzzled by your horse's reaction to the bitless bridle. We have six Arabians that changed from bit to bitless without any problems whatsoever. I just slip the bitless bridle on each one of them and we hit the trails. Not even going once around the corral.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

charrorider said:


> I'm really surprised and puzzled by your horse's reaction to the bitless bridle. We have six Arabians that changed from bit to bitless without any problems whatsoever. I just slip the bitless bridle on each one of them and we hit the trails. Not even going once around the corral.


 This just further affirms that the true problem is a training problem, with the horse being resistant, not truly taught to give lightly to pressure, be it a bit or some bittless devise, as any well trained horse will also ride bittless
It is what allows brildeless demos in the first place-it is the physiological conditioning, through correct training, and not the bit nor any bittless bridle


----------



## etrnlflame (Oct 24, 2013)

Alright, so the problem has VERY likely been figured out! Thank you everyone for your feedback! I'm posting this to hopefully help us all learn more, as it's been an epiphany for me.

Someone asked me if I always ride him in loose rings, because she knew a horse who hated loose rings. Then it all clicked together: He's gone the best in cheap full cheek bits, even my trainer thoughts so when she rode him one night. I was really confused, because I get him all of these sweet copper, anatomic bits, and she put him in a nutcracker, inexpensive one and he went well without head shaking.

Plus, he shakes his head on a loose rein, light or no contact, when the rings would move the most. he always wants his mouth rubbed whenever he can... but mainly he just simply goes better in a full cheek.

So, I've ordered a Blue Bombers Fulmer Loose Ring McHardy bit, which has fixed cheek pieces, the anatomic shape that he seems to respond well with (with the Neue Schule Verbidend) AND has a roller because he's a horse who likes to fidget, and that will hopefully help him accept and salivate. He's had a roller before in a full cheek, and looking back he liked that the most. So hopefully it'll work! I can't wait.

It seems like he's not such a bad boy after all: just needed to be figured out. Also charrorider, he does trails fine in a bitless/hackamore, but when asking him to train flatwork/jumping in an arena he likes to ignore some aids.

Thanks again everyone!


----------

