# Primitive markings on non-dun horses



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

cool markings. do they only show when he shedding ? There are duns in the older lines.


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## dunmorgans (Mar 18, 2015)

From my research, the brown and gray modifiers seem to be the two that bring out the primitive markings the most on non-dun dilute horses.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

They show up BEST when he is shedding.. I know they are there so I can notice them in certain lighting etc, but they are undeniable when he sheds.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

He has one dun in his pedigree... 5 generations back .. a 1961 mare


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Wow, that's really neat looking! Subbing.


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## dunmorgans (Mar 18, 2015)

I don't believe the dun gene puts primitive markings on horses. I believe they all have primitive markings "hidden" in their coat already. And that it's not unlessthey have certain modifiers that these markings can be distinguished from the rest of their coat. 

Obviously the main one that allows these to show is the dun gene. My theory is that perhaps the dun gene is not able to dilute the markings.

Brown and gray, and even sooty sometimes, seem to also allow them to show up at various stages of graying or, as texasgal has noticed, during seasonal coat changes.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

That is the current thinking. That dun does not add the markings, it simply does not dilute them.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Neat. That could explain the distinct counter shading on two of my browns. The one with sooty I see no other markings but the one without has some shoulder bars but more leg barring seasonally as well though the stripe down his back is year round. I've started noticing that many of the browns at the barn have some degree of counter shading.


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

That looks incredible!

I must say, I've seen similar on my QH occasionally. When he's fully shed out, he gets a slightly darker line that closely follows the line of his shoulder, and what looks like faint barring on his legs. I don't know his lines so couldn't say if he has dun behind him, but that combined with how dark the line on his back is lets me joke sometimes about my bay dun


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## dunmorgans (Mar 18, 2015)

Chiilaa said:


> That is the current thinking. That dun does not add the markings, it simply does not dilute them.



Yep, when I presented my article/theory to researchers at UC Davis, prior to publishing it publicly, my contacts there told me they felt my theory was likely correct. That was 2008. 

After that time, I noticed various resources online began to edit their wording from "adds primitive markings" to something more like "allows primitive markings to show". So I figured others were accepting my theory as well.


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## dunmorgans (Mar 18, 2015)

Tracer said:


> That looks incredible!
> 
> I must say, I've seen similar on my QH occasionally. When he's fully shed out, he gets a slightly darker line that closely follows the line of his shoulder, and what looks like faint barring on his legs. I don't know his lines so couldn't say if he has dun behind him, but that combined with how dark the line on his back is lets me joke sometimes about my bay dun



It wouldn't matter if he has dun in his lines or not. Horses of various (non-dun) colors, including in breeds where no dun coloring has been known to exist, have been known to show primitive markings to some degree, often during seasonal coat changes.

It's most likely that all horses have primitive markings, but they are the same color as the rest of the coat and can only be seen if a horse has a modifier that allows them to show at least sometimes.

It's like black cats. As kittens you can easily see their primitive striping pattern. But once they mature you can't, but it's still there ... just blended into the solid black coloring of their mature coat.


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

Lovely markings! I have seen them on brown horses before but not as clear as on your horse.

I agree with a post above saying that dun doesn't put primitive markings on horses, more exposes them.

Summer/ winter coat changes can do odd things to coat colour and some really pretty things, like on your boy


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Once I took these pics, I perused the internet looking at other shoulder barring and was unable to find a picture where there were as many stripes and so evenly placed. I'm glad I took the pic (finally) .. 

I love love love them.. maybe because on my absolutely solid brown horse, it's the only 'markings' on him .. besides his brands.


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## dunmorgans (Mar 18, 2015)

Those are some of THE best shoulder bars I've seen on a non-dun, that's for sure!


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