# How to teach your horse to lunge *without* a whip?



## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

I recently bought a horse (well, about three months ago) and we are still patiently awaiting a round pen to be purchased. Jäger was abused and is terrified of whips, so we have been diligently working on desensitizing him to them, which is coming along well, but he still has his moments of flight or freeze. 

Ultimately, I would love to start lunging him for exercise until which time that the round pen goes in, which I know he does round pen. I have long lined him, which works very well for him at the walk, but he gets confused when he starts trotting. When it comes to lunging, he does not want to get out and stay on the circle. He will go out, take a few steps and come right back in. I have worked on making sure my body language is clear in asking him to move forward and away, out to the circle. I have had a friend who is a trainer give me the all clear on my body language, but she suggested I use a whip to get him going. This, of course, causes him to explode out of fear, as does hitting him violently (with the rope). I'm just wondering if anyone else has had experience with abused horses and their special needs when it comes to training. I have started horses in the past, but none of which who had a deep rooted fear of something from bad previous experience. 

Again, there is no round pen, and no great enclosed space for riding - he is also a bucker under saddle, something we are working on, too. We also spend *a lot* of time, as long as three (spaced out) hours each day, working on ground work, and that is helping, but not getting him moving.


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## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

Just spinning the end of the rope?
Not actually hitting him with it just spinning it when asking fir a faster pace, always make sure you use your voice with the aid though, or even have a lunge whip in with you and hold it there as soon as he goes a faster pace drop it, making sure to use your voice again, tell him hes a good boy once hes moved off as well, alpart from that im not really to sure.
Hope other HF users give some better advice


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Have you tried to encourage him to go forward with your arm. Once you are standing in the correct position and holding your arm out, you should be able to push him forward.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

RedTree said:


> Just spinning the end of the rope?
> Not actually hitting him with it just spinning it when asking fir a faster pace, always make sure you use your voice with the aid though, or even have a lunge whip in with you and hold it there as soon as he goes a faster pace drop it, making sure to use your voice again, tell him hes a good boy once hes moved off as well, alpart from that im not really to sure.
> Hope other HF users give some better advice


I will have to try bringing the whip out and just picking it up and dropping it - that could help! And also help with his desensitizing.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

Maple said:


> Have you tried to encourage him to go forward with your arm. Once you are standing in the correct position and holding your arm out, you should be able to push him forward.


If you mean holding my arm out in the direction that I want him to go, then yes, I do this each time I ask him.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

BarrelRacer724 said:


> If you mean holding my arm out in the direction that I want him to go, then yes, I do this each time I ask him.


No, I mean have your leading hand holding the rope and use your "back" hand to hold out, like somebody would do if they held a whip. You should be able to encourage him forward with it directed towards his hind end. When you want him to move on, bring the arm out and push him forward. You want to create a triangle with the horse, using your leading hand and your driving hand to create the lines with the horse.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

Maple said:


> No, I mean have your leading hand holding the rope and use your "back" hand to hold out, like somebody would do if they held a whip. You should be able to encourage him forward with it directed towards his hind end. When you want him to move on, bring the arm out and push him forward. You want to create a triangle with the horse, using your leading hand and your driving hand to create the lines with the horse.


Ah, okay I see what you are saying now, I have heard the triangle analogy since taking lessons when I was much younger. Again, this is something I do currently with him, but he sees this as I want him to disengage his hindquarters and stop, unless I have the end of the rope in that hand and am swinging it. Half of the problem is that he doesn't necessarily want to stay or go out onto the circle. His default is to disengage his hindquarters.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Stop coddling him. Every time he 'blows up' and you 'back off' so you won't scare him, you literally teach him to blow up. You are reinforcing his worst fears and making him worse in the process.

Forget that he has been 'abused'. Many horses have been abused with whips. Just about every horse I used to re-train that had a bad trailer loading problem had been beaten with whips to unsuccessfully try to get them in a trailer. Since 'I use 'leading training' to load difficult horses, I could get them loaded and brought to my place without addressing their whip fears. 

Once I got them home with me, one of the first things I addressed was their fear of whips. It usually took about an hour to get them to respond properly to a whip. I had to train them that they should move away from a whip when I smooch and use correct body language and should not be a afraid of a whip or 'over-react' to me using it around them and hitting the ground with it all around them.

Learning the proper way to use 'pressure and release' training is all it takes. I will try to get back in later today and explain my way of getting a horse over its fear of a whip. It is very important to do this as a horse will continue over-reacting with inappropriate fear reactions until the problem is fixed.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

Regardless of his past keep in mind he is a horse first, and needs to learn to respect you. He needs to learn to not be afraid of you or your tools, whips and lead ropes. Forget the lunging for now and work on desensitizing him to your tools. The whip is a tool think of it as an extension of your arm. You need to be able to rub and touch him with the whip. Keep in mind horses learn from the release of pressure so if you remove the whip while he is moving then you have taught him that is what he is supposed to do. If you keep rubbing him until he stops and relaxes then you remove the whip he learns that standing still will give him relief. The way to do that is find a starting point stand at a 45 degree angle from his front leg so your in safe place if he runs forward or strikes out. Start with touching him on his shoulder with the end of the whip if he moves you move with him keep his two eyes towards you, when he stops and stands take the whip away for a few seconds then do it again. If he you think he will stand for three seconds remove it at two. Once you can touch him on his shoulder rub his shoulder, then move to rub up towards his withers, back across his butt, his belly, hind legs, front legs, head and neck. If at any time he gets worried and begins moving just stay with him until he stops. Make sure you do the same thing on both sides, and he may get reactive on the other side horses have a left and right side and you have to train each side, whatever you do on one side you do on the other. And don't try to rub his whole body in one day maybe make a goal to be able to touch him and rub his shoulder, then the next while you rub his shoulder start moving the whip to rubbing his back. Any time he stands still and relaxes remove the whip for a second, then go back. Then you would desensitize him to the lead rope by just tossing the end of the rope towards him doing the same thing if he moves stay with him, and keep going until he stops. Get to where you can toss the rope over his back, butt, hind legs, front legs and neck. Then when you can do that gently toss the end of the whip over his back, legs and neck. The goal is to be able to touch him all over with your tools, while he stands relaxed. By sneaking around him and making excuses for his behavior your causing him to be fearful, do the desensitizing with rhythm and feel and don't stop until he stands still and shows you he is relaxing.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

gssw5 said:


> Regardless of his past keep in mind he is a horse first, and needs to learn to respect you. He needs to learn to not be afraid of you or your tools, whips and lead ropes. Forget the lunging for now and work on desensitizing him to your tools. The whip is a tool think of it as an extension of your arm. You need to be able to rub and touch him with the whip. Keep in mind horses learn from the release of pressure so if you remove the whip while he is moving then you have taught him that is what he is supposed to do. If you keep rubbing him until he stops and relaxes then you remove the whip he learns that standing still will give him relief. The way to do that is find a starting point stand at a 45 degree angle from his front leg so your in safe place if he runs forward or strikes out. Start with touching him on his shoulder with the end of the whip if he moves you move with him keep his two eyes towards you, when he stops and stands take the whip away for a few seconds then do it again. If he you think he will stand for three seconds remove it at two. Once you can touch him on his shoulder rub his shoulder, then move to rub up towards his withers, back across his butt, his belly, hind legs, front legs, head and neck. If at any time he gets worried and begins moving just stay with him until he stops. Make sure you do the same thing on both sides, and he may get reactive on the other side horses have a left and right side and you have to train each side, whatever you do on one side you do on the other. And don't try to rub his whole body in one day maybe make a goal to be able to touch him and rub his shoulder, then the next while you rub his shoulder start moving the whip to rubbing his back. Any time he stands still and relaxes remove the whip for a second, then go back. Then you would desensitize him to the lead rope by just tossing the end of the rope towards him doing the same thing if he moves stay with him, and keep going until he stops. Get to where you can toss the rope over his back, butt, hind legs, front legs and neck. Then when you can do that gently toss the end of the whip over his back, legs and neck. The goal is to be able to touch him all over with your tools, while he stands relaxed. By sneaking around him and making excuses for his behavior your causing him to be fearful, do the desensitizing with rhythm and feel and don't stop until he stands still and shows you he is relaxing.





Cherie said:


> Stop coddling him. Every time he 'blows up' and you 'back off' so you won't scare him, you literally teach him to blow up. You are reinforcing his worst fears and making him worse in the process.
> 
> Forget that he has been 'abused'. Many horses have been abused with whips. Just about every horse I used to re-train that had a bad trailer loading problem had been beaten with whips to unsuccessfully try to get them in a trailer. Since 'I use 'leading training' to load difficult horses, I could get them loaded and brought to my place without addressing their whip fears.
> 
> ...


In response to the two of these. I have been using pressure and release since day one. He allows me to throw the lead rope all over his body and various strengths, and allows me to rub his body with the whip and use it around him. 

The real problem I am having is with the lunging part of it. I am not quite sure he was ever taught to lunge, only round pen. So he is fine with the whip when he is standing still, but if he is asked to move faster by means of the whip, even if only picking it up when he is walking, he becomes white-eyed and explodes into running away.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

This is why I dislike round pens....over used and they become a handlers crutch. I've seen so many posts where people feel like they can't do anything without the 'round pen'. Round pens give handlers lots of 'outs' 1. They don't have to put a line on a horse 2. It falsely puts the horse in a circle ie. horses learn to use the round shape to lean or balance on instead of moving upright on all four legs.
Sorry, round pen rant over.

I agree with Cherie on this. Looking forward to her response later.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

Muppetgirl said:


> This is why I dislike round pens....over used and they become a handlers crutch. I've seen so many posts where people feel like they can't do anything without the 'round pen'. Round pens give handlers lots of 'outs' 1. They don't have to put a line on a horse 2. It falsely puts the horse in a circle ie. horses learn to use the round shape to lean or balance on instead of moving upright on all four legs.
> Sorry, round pen rant over.
> 
> I agree with Cherie on this. Looking forward to her response later.


While I do agree that people tend to over use round pens, that is just what the woman I am boarding with it getting soon, instead of an arena. Just making it clear that I am comfortable using either, I am just currently working in a two acre pasture.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

The 2 acre pasture is just fine. Round pens are for people and not for horses. They are a convenience and are absolutely a crutch for most who use them.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect that this horse has already pulled away from you. It only takes once for them to learn that they can get away from you.


> he is fine with the whip when he is standing still, but if he is asked to move faster by means of the whip, even if only picking it up when he is walking, he becomes white-eyed and explodes into running away.


This right here tells me that he is in charge and he is telling you what he will allow and what he will not put up with. This right here tell me that the inmate is running this asylum. It tells me you are doing exactly what I said you were. You are being 'careful' not to 'scare' him with the raised whip. You are dealing with a 'spoiled horse' and the first step forward is to admit that he is spoiled and that he has YOU trained. You do not need a way to longe him without a whip. You FIRST need to teach him to accept the whip and respond to it in the correct way and you need to teach him to respect the halter -- first and foremost. Like most problems, it gets right back down to being a respect issue. Otherwise, you will have this big gaping hole in his training from now on. He will bolt with you on him if someone near him picks up a whip before you can tell them not to raise a whip around your horse. This is not exactly a safe situation.

If he has jerked away from you, he will soon find other times that he will decide to jerk away and run off. This is also not a safe situation. Fix these problems and you will not have a longeing problem.

[I'm worked on the whip re-training. I have trail riders and a guide out on the trail, so I cannot spend much time at the computer today.]


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

If you have taught him to move his hq when you point or wave at them you can't use that cue to also mean go forward. Point or wave at his shoulder if you want to move him forward. Also, make sure he moves his feet first and that you are behind his drive line.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

He needs to learn to move his hindquarters and his shoulders so you can keep him in position. You don't necessarily need a whip and I find lunge whips too long anyway. Just me, I like a shorter whip. I actually use training sticks. (bought off Ebay for less than half of what CA charges for his FYI). I find lunge whips kind of clumsy to work with.

Also, where are you standing? Make sure you're standing behind the drive line so it makes logical sense to move forward.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I agree with Cherie. I don't know if I would characterize him as a spoiled horse, but I don't have the no-nonsense, work-a-day, trained hundreds kind of background that she does. So, listen to what she says.

My own trainer phrases it like this:

Your horse has this all inside of him, so do you want it to come out now, or on the trail, while you are on top of him?

That means, that his fear reaction to the whip is inside of him, the tension is there, the anxiety, and working with him in a way that avoids making that come out means that you will be riding out on a horse with that problem inside of him, maybe only masked by him having learned to stand still , suck it up , and "take it " when a whip is put on him.

So, let's say you work a lot on having him just stand still while you put the whip on and off, within his range of tolerance. you get to the point where he will stand still and let you do this, But, as soon as he gets moving, he explodes. So, the problem is still inside of him. 
His exploding is an opportunity, not something to avoid. Its the beginning of where he can release his fear. If you stop there, you leave him with the fear. you must stay with him, HELP him get past it by remembering exactly what you are asking for and not accepting anything else.

So, if you are asking him to step forward, he explodes, backs up or tries to flee, you have to shut that down!, get him to look at you with both eyes for a bit, and ask him to step forward.
even while he is struggling around, backing up, maybe rearing up a bit, trying to go the wrong way, you must not be deflected from continuing to ask , with the rope, to go where you are asking.

without seeing exactly how you are trying to lunge, it's hard to give specific pointers on how to get better results, and it is no doubt very hard to do with a very strong and explosive horse on the line. (get a rope halter and use a 12 to 15 foot line). but I wanted to share with that way of thinking about this kind of problem to see if it might help you approach your horse differently.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I agree with Cherie. I don't know if I would characterize him as a spoiled horse, but I don't have the no-nonsense, work-a-day, trained hundreds kind of background that she does. So, listen to what she says.
> 
> My own trainer phrases it like this:
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post. He is by no means spoiled and I have always used pressure and release with him, always staying with him when he does explode. He just seems to go on forever when he blows up, and when he calms down and I reward him for that, he does it all over the next day which is a little discouraging. But, that being said! I think I needed to hear you say that I should seize it as an opportunity rather than dread it, and every step forward he takes is a little victory.


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## Thrill Ride (Feb 18, 2013)

Horses that are abused don't have 'special training'. Treat him like you would treat a horse that has never seen a whip before and is scared of it. 

If he steps into your space while lunging, step in really close and yell sternly "OUT" or some cue, you might even have to use your hands and make your self a semi-monster. This is the beginning of 'Pushiness', stop it now while it is little before he turns into a train running you over. 

Long lined? Does that mean Ground-Drive? I work at a place with driving horses and one exercise they do is put their bridle on, put a surcingle/harness on and lunge them. You don't need a whip for this but they do need to have a general idea of what ground driving is. So you stand like you would for lunging and you have the inside rein shorter, and the outside rein is still connected but it wraps around their butt. So your inside rein is telling direction, and the outside rein you swing or tap their butt with it. But first you need to teach them that when you do the cue of 'slapping', not really slapping but you know what I mean with the reins, that means to move forward. 

I do this exercise all the time with mine


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I had issues lunging my mare. She would do the same, go out for a few steps, then come back. 

YOU have to be confident and VERY assertive if not aggressive. 

Use the whip. Dont baby him. In time he will learn that the whip isn't gonna hurt him. but he should still respect it.

Everytime he goes to come back in to you, MAKE him move away. You dont want him there!! 

If he explodes when you ask for forward, dont correct him. you want him to be moving. Let him move so he finds out its OK. 

I'd write more but I feel its mostly been covered.


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## horsemanship91 (Aug 12, 2013)

I'm launching my horse without a whip. I used it to teach him launching though. You should spend alot of time desensetizing. Take the whip and pet him with it all over the body.make sure you have a good grip on the lead line He will be moving around trying to get way from hit. The trick is not stop petting him until he stands still. Once you start you CANT stop until he stands still. Otherwise you just thought him that running away is the solution. Make sure you have enough time, it may take a while. The first time I did this with my horse it took about 20 minutes. Once your horse stands still take the whip of and let him relax ( if he licks his lips he's thinking about what just happend -do not interfere. Wait till he's done and then do it again. You should do that for a couple days/weeks. You can see on hand the video that my horse doesn't mind it now. If I were you I would not start launging until he completely accepts the whip. when you launch him you need to have something to make him move and pay attention ( especially if you trying to teach him launching and he keeps coming to you) to you because he will try sooner or later to get away with it by not "listening" and then you will have behavior problems because he's gonna be saying" I don't have to do it you can't make me " 

Sorry for my bad english I'm german but I hope this helped some 




Horsemanship Groundwork - Bodenarbeit, Desensitize, Reiten ohne Sattel und Trense - YouTube


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

horsemanship91 said:


> Sorry for my bad english I'm german but I hope this helped some
> 
> Horsemanship Groundwork - Bodenarbeit, Desensitize, Reiten ohne Sattel und Trense - YouTube


Your English is much better than my German! 

Good video on desensitizing.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

BarrelRacer724 said:


> Thank you for this post. He is by no means spoiled and I have always used pressure and release with him, always staying with him when he does explode. *He just seems to go on forever when he blows up, and when he calms down and I reward him for that, *he does it all over the next day which is a little discouraging. But, that being said! I think I needed to hear you say that I should seize it as an opportunity rather than dread it, and every step forward he takes is a little victory.



Again, let me quote my trainer, who must say things many times to get through my thick skull. "Stay with him until he makes the change" Stay with him. So, keep asking him for the thing you want, don't just wait for him to finish his tantrum and then reward him for calming down. he gets the reward when he does what you asked, even if it's a tiny bit. Perhaps you are rewarding him for calming, nstead of rewarding him for moving, that you have to do it all over again each day.


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