# Differences in gag/elevator bits?



## NordicJuniper (Jun 9, 2009)

First off, please don't attack me. I am aware that most people do not agree with using a harsher bit but I am simply asking a question to learn more information and see what I might be able to work with. 

I want to do XC and even just jump at shows, but my horse is a nutcase. I currently ride him in a full cheek, slow twist, single jointed snaffle. He does great in it when we are on the flat for the most part. He is still insanely strong and will ignore one rein stops unless you really rank on his face, which I hate doing! 

I can't take him XC in this bit. It just isn't enough for him. He turns into a racehorse and will completely take off with you. You pretty much have to hold on for the ride until you can finally pull him up. This issue has stopped me from showing for the last year. I got tired of being thrown in the jumper ring because he would just run through his bit.

So I am looking at gag and elevator/dutch gag bits. I have soft hands and just need something that I could use should I need to. This is a personal choice and if you do not agree then please do not be rude about your opinion. 

My question is what is the differences? Which is better? Which is "nicer" or "harsher"? Pretty much any ideas you have on them.

If I do an gag bit then my horse's set up would look exactly like this, bridle and all:









If I do an elevator bit/dutch gag then my horses's set up would look eactly like this, bridle and all:


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## SkyeMac (Dec 8, 2012)

I really like three rings for xc. I haven't used a gag bit before so I can't compare well but I liked the amount of control the three ring bit gave me. It's really nice to change the amount of leverage, and I found that my mare learned to respect the bit really quickly. The first time I used it I put it on the middle ring(like in the pic) and she ran through it a bit, more out of confusion than anything. I put it on the bottom ring for half of my ride and she really respected it, I didn't have to put it on that hole again and she was really nice and responsive to it. It's also nice that it has the big snaffle ring you can use. I know a few others who really like it because its so effective without being harsh as long as you have soft hands. That being said, it's a strong bit and you need to make sure you're being gentle when they are.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

By XC do you mean eventing? I've never heard of just straight XC competitions before. If you want to event, your horse MUST be able to use a dressage legal bit for the dressage phase. Other than that you can use what you want for the SJ an XC phases(unless more experienced eventers know of any restrictions here). Elevators seem to be the more common cheek-piece with varying mouth-pieces.


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## SkyeMac (Dec 8, 2012)

Yeah, I do eventing. I used a loose ring french link for dressage and my elevator was a single joint for sj and xc. There are xc derbys in some places though, I've heard of them but never gone. At my level there are very few (if any) restrictons on bits for sj and xc, and for dressage it must be a snaffle with no twists or copper.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

SkyeMac said:


> I really like three rings for xc. I haven't used a gag bit before so I can't compare well but I liked the amount of control the three ring bit gave me.


A three ring is a gag ;-)

I personally like the three ring. Though if your horse is as get up and go as you say I would likely go for the eggbutt gag. You can/should ride the eggbutt gag with double reins. You can have the snaffle and when you need the gag action you can pick that up.

Any chance of borrowing a bit from someone and trying both out to see what works for you?


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

Of the two the Cheltenham gag is the stronger of the two and is the first picture you posted. It can also be used with two reins. If you get a Cheltenham then my advice would be to get one like the photo with rope cheekpieces, wear is easier to see and I have heard of incidents where it's been leather instead and it's rotted from the inside out.
The Dutch gag is much more common, can be used with two reins if needed and should be if you plan to use the bottom ring. A few of the horses I ride are in Dutch gags and some of them it does cause them to overbend and go behind the bit.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Both of these bits apply pressure to the poll as well as the mouth with that bit of gag. I'm a barrel racer and western rider, but the concept of a strong jumping horse and a strong barrel horse is the same. Both of these bits could prove very useful to you. I wouldn't say either is "nicer" than the other. I really like a nice draw gag (same as the first picture you posted) but that three ring gag is just as nice. These are very similar to what I would look for in a bit for a strong barrel horse.

Have you also maybe considered using a light combo bit? We use one like this for barrel racing on strong horses because of the mouth + nose + poll pressure. Not sure how common it is to use combo bits in English though. In my brief venture we just used snaffles and dutch gags for the jumping phases.

Circle Y O'Ring w/Copper Mullen Mouth - The Tack Stop


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Personally I prefer the Cheltenham... whilst it is harsher when you *really* pull, it actually takes a little more pressure to pull the cheekpieces through the bit than it does to pull the cheekpices forward in the Dutch, so the Cheltenham rides like a snaffle in the mouth on slightly greater contact than the Dutch. Don;t get me wrong, I'm not claiming either of them are anything like a snaffle, but if your hands are light then the Cheltenham is great for XC as it doesn;t apply that pressure until you take up that bit more contact. It's what I use XC, not because I have to fight to stop but 'just in case' I ever need that extra control before a fence but without harshness of a pelham (the local have for XC here).

What I've found with Dutch gags is that, whilst their great for use in different stages of training as you can adjust the strength, once you are actually cross country it's not all that flexible. The Cheltenham gag levers slightly first, then compresses the cheekpieces, and then levers further, so there's different strengths for how hard you end up pulling... you don;t need to move the bit ring.

As was already said it was originally designed for two reins, which is how I ride it with, just for that extra control, but it isn't actually all that common to see it ridden as such nowadays, and don;t try it XC if you;re not used to two reins as it's no use to you on a fast paced course if you aren;t practiced!


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