# Should I move to a new barn?



## PetrosPlantation (Oct 28, 2015)

I'm currently boarding my horse at a stable that has 80 acres with about 15 horses. However, during the winter months the barn owner almost never puts them outside so my boy gets very frustrated being cooped up. They also do not have an indoor arena that I could use to exercise him and the out door arena is very small. 
Down the road there is another stable that has a 10 acre pasture with about 10 horses on it and the owner puts the horses out daily (they have access to run in sheds) and it DOES have an indoor arena and a very large outdoor arena. 
I try to always make decisions with my horses health and happiness in mind. What would you do? Stay at a sub par facility with a lot of land or move to a better facility with a smaller pasture?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I think you just answered your own question....

"Why should you stay at a sub par facility with a lot of land or move to a better facility with a smaller pasture?"

You are the only advocate your horse has...
You are the only one who can decide if the other facility offers what your horse needs, is affordable to your budget and a working solution for the situation you describe...

Me, I would of been gone as soon as my horse was exhibiting signs of stress from being cooped up and no place to let him get out, run, stretch his legs and have some R&R mentally so I could ride and enjoy my horse.
:runninghorse2:*....*
_jmo..._


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## k9kenai (Jul 1, 2017)

Could you talk to the barn owner and ask if they could possibly turn your horse out more during the winter months? Or ask them _why_ they choose not to turn the horses out as often? As for more exercise, are there trails nearby that you could ride instead of focusing on arena work? Or even just hand walking your horse around the area would get him some exercise outside.

To be honest, the barn you are currently at sounds the best for your horse in terms of the pasture to horse ratio. For the second barn, 10 horses on 10 acres is already pushing it in terms of pasture quality, and adding any more to that may decrease the quality of the pasture (I've always gone off the idea of "1 horse per acre" which is what a lot of city and county zoning regulations go off of here, too). The arenas are nice, but those are more for _your_ comfort rather than your horse's comfort.

But, if the barn owner at your current barn is not even bothering to turn the horses out on the 80 acres then the acreage doesn't really make a difference if it's not being used.

I would say talk to your current barn owner and see about getting your horse more turnout time. From there, decide whether you truly need the larger arenas (including an indoor arena, which is definitely a luxury item) to do your work in and if the new barn has proper pasture management plans for the amount of horses (including any future horses they plan on accepting) they have. If they don't have any plans, then I would stay at your current barn even if you can't get more turnout time. You'll maybe just have to get creative about finding ways to help your horse with exercise, boredom, etc.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

k9kenai said:


> Could you talk to the barn owner and ask if they could possibly turn your horse out more during the winter months? Or ask them _why_ they choose not to turn the horses out as often? As for more exercise, are there trails nearby that you could ride instead of focusing on arena work? Or even just hand walking your horse around the area would get him some exercise outside.
> 
> To be honest, the barn you are currently at sounds the best for your horse in terms of the pasture to horse ratio. For the second barn, 10 horses on 10 acres is already pushing it in terms of pasture quality, and adding any more to that may decrease the quality of the pasture (I've always gone off the idea of "1 horse per acre" which is what a lot of city and county zoning regulations go off of here, too). The arenas are nice, but those are more for _your_ comfort rather than your horse's comfort.
> 
> ...


An indoor may be a luxury in New Mexico but may not be where the OP is.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I always choose the barn with the most turnout, as a general rule (I have my horses home now, but have boarded, and the lack of appropriate turnout caused me and my horse great distress). I do not think horses were meant to live in a 12 x 12 foot stall 24/7. What's the point of having 80 acres if there's no turnout? Honestly, there are a lot of things I would sacrifice before sacrificing turnout. I know a lot of people in my community who board at different facilities. Some are shiny and new, but like yours, lack good turnout. Others are not so fancy, but have tons of turnout. The horses that do the best health-wise, physically and psychologically (horses that are frustrated from being kept in almost never behave well when they finally get a chance to leave their stall - who can blame them?), are the ones with a lot of turnout. They don't care how fancy the barn is. Now, I understand that in some parts of the world, turnout is just not possible, and am not trying to bash anyone, I'm just saying that the longer I keep horses, the more I can see that they are far happier and healthier with a lot of turnout. 

Having gotten that out of the way, I'm guessing there are other factors to consider. First, how long is your winter? Are we talking no turnout at all for two months, four months, 6 months? More? (I'm in Canada, so I know how long it can take before pastures are ready for horses again). Secondly, are we talking no turnout at all? Or is there an attached run? Mine are limited to a 125 ft by 75 ft winter paddock which leads to their stalls when the snow comes. They are free to come and go except in the worst weather, when I shut them in at night. So they still get some exercise and turnout, but don't get the full 5 acres (2 horses) until things dry out in the spring. My pastures are under several feet of snow for several months anyway, so I feel this is an acceptable compromise. I don't have an indoor, but keep my outdoor cleared so we ride throughout the winter months. They interact with each other, get frisky in the fresh snow, and get ridden lots in the winter months.

Getting back to your choices... what is the care like at either barn? What are the BOs like to deal with? Will your horse be getting the same care at both facilities? Will they be fed frequently, or only 2-3 times a day? What do the stalls look like? A horse that is stalled 24/7 needs frequent cleaning.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

10 horses on 10 acres will be a dry lot all year. At least the 80 acres is available some of the time. Maybe suggest to the BO to make smaller winter turnouts for the daytime?


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

From the little bit of information provided, I don't like the sounds of either place. 10 acres for 10 horses does not sound like enough. Are there any other viable options that are close to you to consider?

Granted, like others have mentioned there are other things to consider as well. If my horse was stabled 24/7 I would be itching to get him out of there too.


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## PetrosPlantation (Oct 28, 2015)

k9kenai said:


> Could you talk to the barn owner and ask if they could possibly turn your horse out more during the winter months? Or ask them _why_ they choose not to turn the horses out as often? As for more exercise, are there trails nearby that you could ride instead of focusing on arena work? Or even just hand walking your horse around the area would get him some exercise outside.
> 
> To be honest, the barn you are currently at sounds the best for your horse in terms of the pasture to horse ratio. For the second barn, 10 horses on 10 acres is already pushing it in terms of pasture quality, and adding any more to that may decrease the quality of the pasture (I've always gone off the idea of "1 horse per acre" which is what a lot of city and county zoning regulations go off of here, too). The arenas are nice, but those are more for _your_ comfort rather than your horse's comfort.
> 
> ...


BO insists it's too cold for the horses and they'll get sick. It's not that she wouldn't turn my horse out, she would but he would be alone (which would also stress him out) I wish I could afford 2 horses then I would turn them out together!


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## PetrosPlantation (Oct 28, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> I always choose the barn with the most turnout, as a general rule (I have my horses home now, but have boarded, and the lack of appropriate turnout caused me and my horse great distress). I do not think horses were meant to live in a 12 x 12 foot stall 24/7. What's the point of having 80 acres if there's no turnout? Honestly, there are a lot of things I would sacrifice before sacrificing turnout. I know a lot of people in my community who board at different facilities. Some are shiny and new, but like yours, lack good turnout. Others are not so fancy, but have tons of turnout. The horses that do the best health-wise, physically and psychologically (horses that are frustrated from being kept in almost never behave well when they finally get a chance to leave their stall - who can blame them?), are the ones with a lot of turnout. They don't care how fancy the barn is. Now, I understand that in some parts of the world, turnout is just not possible, and am not trying to bash anyone, I'm just saying that the longer I keep horses, the more I can see that they are far happier and healthier with a lot of turnout.
> 
> Having gotten that out of the way, I'm guessing there are other factors to consider. First, how long is your winter? Are we talking no turnout at all for two months, four months, 6 months? More? (I'm in Canada, so I know how long it can take before pastures are ready for horses again). Secondly, are we talking no turnout at all? Or is there an attached run? Mine are limited to a 125 ft by 75 ft winter paddock which leads to their stalls when the snow comes. They are free to come and go except in the worst weather, when I shut them in at night. So they still get some exercise and turnout, but don't get the full 5 acres (2 horses) until things dry out in the spring. My pastures are under several feet of snow for several months anyway, so I feel this is an acceptable compromise. I don't have an indoor, but keep my outdoor cleared so we ride throughout the winter months. They interact with each other, get frisky in the fresh snow, and get ridden lots in the winter months.
> 
> Getting back to your choices... what is the care like at either barn? What are the BOs like to deal with? Will your horse be getting the same care at both facilities? Will they be fed frequently, or only 2-3 times a day? What do the stalls look like? A horse that is stalled 24/7 needs frequent cleaning.


It's currently a 10x10 stall and fed twice a day. I buy extra hay though and use slow feed nets to try to make it last and help with boredom. I live in PA our winters last about 4-5 months and there may be weeks where they are stalled 3-4 days at a time before they get one day of turn out.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Horses do not do well when kept inside like that. I don't know why the BO considers it too cold. Can't they wear blankets or something? How cold is too cold? 

Are there other owners that would like their horses turned out too? Then your horse would not be alone. 

I personally would move to the other place. More places to ride and more turn-out = win/win situation. 

Would rather have my horse loose on a bare lot than cooped inside for weeks at a time.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

PetrosPlantation said:


> It's currently a 10x10 stall and fed twice a day. I buy extra hay though and use slow feed nets to try to make it last and help with boredom. I live in PA our winters last about 4-5 months and there may be weeks where they are stalled 3-4 days at a time before they get one day of turn out.


10 x 10? Yikes. I have small horses (14.2 and 14.3) and they would go crazy cooped up like that. I'm in Eastern Canada. Winter officially came last night (really, we got a blizzard), and will be here until April (though we can still get snow in May). We can get temperatures at -20C for weeks on end without breaks. And it can get much, much colder than that (-40C). Yet my horses are out every day. The idea that horses get sick from being out in the cold is a little ludicrous. Horses do very well in the cold, though they do have to build a tolerance for it and be allowed to grow a good coat (or get blanketed). Ask a vet, they will confirm it. 

It certainly does sound like you're doing everything you can for your horse, but honestly, I would look at moving. The facility that has 10 acres for 10 horses doesn't have sufficent room either, but turnout is important. That said, I'd be checking that place to make sure the turnout isn't a big muddy mess. That tends to happen when there are too many horses for the available acreage. Go snoop around a bit, see what the ground is like in the turnout. They won't have any grass there, so pasture isn't realistic with so little space, but if the ground isn't too muddy, it can still be a very good setup.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

To cold to me interprets as possibly inclement weather where the horses endure hours upon hours of rain, sleet, snow and winds which _*can*_ be to cold a condition to be out in...persisting day after day of it. :x

I use to live in the northeast {on Long Island actually} and what the OP describes is common practice.
Where I was land was a premium and 10 acres of t/o space would be bliss...
In winter it _*is*_ common to have ice _not snow_ on the ground from 1/4" to several inches thick everywhere for extended periods of time..._not t/o friendly or safe for humans to walk on either for that matter._
In "summer" horses were commonly not left out all the time either but had daily time out...
Boarding barns also had their horse owners who came and rode regularly so the horses were out daily.
It is very different the standard practices of some areas over others...horses survive, they thrive, they adjust and acclimate to their living surroundings.
My own horses when turned out daily were standing at the gate looking/waiting to come in 45 minutes or so after they went out...they were done with out. 
They wanted their stall, their hay waiting for them and that was that..and yes, they were on grass and could graze..they wanted in!
Remember it *is* winter in this country, grass is not growing nor very tasty either but sparse scrub left over now...

These horses sound like they may be stall boarded horses not pasture boarded animals that so many think are the same..._they're not._
Run-in field shelters are not "the barn"....
In summer weather, the 80 acres and "out" sound great if it is all edible land but I know by me...not all land and grass is edible to picky horses either. 
80 acres in Pennsylvania could be slim pickings any time of the year not knowing what rocks, ground shale, steep rocky terrain, trees and such are in that space.
Barns do not t/o depending upon the t/o location and space to feed the horses either as some I think are accustomed to...
T/O is a time for running, bucking, farting and playing chase take place or moseying around...they go home to their inside stall to eat and be fed.

I still say move the horses to a location where good barn care of feed and cleanliness is done everyday and the ability to let them out weather permitting takes place, and you as owner have the ability to get out and ride, exercise and do so in a safe environment during the nasty of winter riding weather.
I and my horses are so spoiled by living in the south today. 
My barn is surrounded by their grassed paddock area with free-roaming inside that area the horses choice...their choice is they spend nearly half the day in the stalls willingly.
So, given the choice...mine stall themselves...so no, the idea of a stall boarded horse is not distasteful to me when I watch what mine chose to do...stall themselves.

I do have to wonder though what "frustrated" is you see O/P in your horse..
It is _your _feelings or is the horse truly acting out?
Regardless, I would move when also say you not have a large enough arena for you to give adequate exercise in either. :sad:
 :runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## PetrosPlantation (Oct 28, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> PetrosPlantation said:
> 
> 
> > It's currently a 10x10 stall and fed twice a day. I buy extra hay though and use slow feed nets to try to make it last and help with boredom. I live in PA our winters last about 4-5 months and there may be weeks where they are stalled 3-4 days at a time before they get one day of turn out.
> ...


I took a tour of the facility today! The pasture is actually 23 acres with about 12-15 horses on it (mares with geldings...which I like bc its more natural) and this late in the season there was still grass in the back half of the field! I worked up the numbers on the extras that I spend $ on now that I would save by moving and it turns out its only a $60 difference. Moving is such a hard decision though! I'm so nervous!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

PetrosPlantation said:


> I took a tour of the facility today! The pasture is actually 23 acres with about 12-15 horses on it (mares with geldings...which I like bc its more natural) and this late in the season there was still grass in the back half of the field!!


Those numbers work for a pasture setting and available grass if managed properly.
Watch to see if the horses go to the back area and graze or walk in and leave quickly because there in not grass to their taste-bud liking...

$60 is considerable when it is X 12 months = *$720.00 per year
*That to me is pretty substantial a savings to spend on something else "horse" :grin:
:runninghorse2:...


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## PetrosPlantation (Oct 28, 2015)

Avna said:


> k9kenai said:
> 
> 
> > Could you talk to the barn owner and ask if they could possibly turn your horse out more during the winter months? Or ask them _why_ they choose not to turn the horses out as often? As for more exercise, are there trails nearby that you could ride instead of focusing on arena work? Or even just hand walking your horse around the area would get him some exercise outside.
> ...


When it's not snowing it's raining and during the summer my boy absolutely hates flies so having an indoor would be huge!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> Those numbers work for a pasture setting and available grass if managed properly.
> Watch to see if the horses go to the back area and graze or walk in and leave quickly because there in not grass to their taste-bud liking...
> 
> $60 is considerable when it is X 12 months = *$720.00 per year
> ...


You are looking at it all wrong. $60 is two dinners out per month for two people. Less than a Starbucks latte 5 days a week. Getting your hair cut at a semi-fancy place once. One cute purse. One half of a pair of nice pants. 

And anyway, don't you know the golden rule of horses? "never add up the totals"


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> Those numbers work for a pasture setting and available grass if managed properly.
> Watch to see if the horses go to the back area and graze or walk in and leave quickly because there in not grass to their taste-bud liking...
> 
> $60 is considerable when it is X 12 months = *$720.00 per year
> ...


You are looking at it all wrong. $60 is two dinners out per month for two people at a cheapo restaurant. Less than a Starbucks latte on workday mornings. Getting your hair cut at a semi-fancy place once. One cute purse. One half of a pair of nice pants. 

And anyway, don't you know the golden rule of horses? _"never add up the totals"_


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

sorry about the repeat post. Wasn't my fault!


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

PetrosPlantation said:


> BO insists it's too cold for the horses and they'll get sick.





PetrosPlantation said:


> I live in PA our winters last about 4-5 months and there may be weeks where they are stalled 3-4 days at a time before they get one day of turn out.


I also live in PA. Our horses are out 24/7 year round.

I would be seriously looking at moving your horse if you can swing it financially.


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

I live in Pa. Horses get turn out year round, though, are indoors a bit more in winter- in during the night. They do get turnout though. Worst I ever seen it was a few days after a snowstorm, the BO could only turn out in the paddocks and one small field- which soon was unusable due to dangerous ice buildup. Then the horses went out in shifts into the 2 small paddocks, then brought in at night. Wasn't much for the horses, but was better than nothing. Otherwise, our barn lets the horses out as much as possible (even though there are times I wish mine was stalled a little longer to dry her hoofs out in this wetter than usual year)
I think it really comes down to how much the BO really wants to do. I can understand if a really bad storm came and the horses were in for a few days, but if its like that every week for winter, I think its a bit too much-especially if your horse is telling you he isn't happy. I know there would only be so much I would ask my horse to just suck it up- you'll live.

Think it over, weight the pros and cons, and I am sure you will come to the right conclusion that works for both you and your horse.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I will make this brief...move! : )


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

I suspect your current barn owner isn't turning out in the winter out of laziness. I live in the bitter cold Midwest and moved to a place where all of the horses go out every day except for major storms or when the temperature goes to the minus level. All of the horses have waterproof blankets and are dry and toasty when they are brought in (and clean!!), even when they've been rolling in the mud! I'll admit that the first year my boys were out, I sat in my nice warm office at work and worried about them but they adapted really well. My grey no longer has ulcers and my bay no longer cribs!

The BO will take the blankets off as necessary but basically they live in those blankets the whole winter. He closes 2 of the 3 pastures and in the 3rd sacrifice pasture he keeps 2 round bales out at all times so they can munch all day and just wander around. Then, back to their stalls at night.

All of the horses seem to love this lifestyle, in fact when they are brought in they spend a lot of time staring outside as if they want to go back out!

I would make sure there is a stall available at the new place for your horse before you discuss your issues with the current BO. If BOs acted more like true business owners, they'd want to know why they are losing boarders but that's not usually the case. Moving to the other place sounds like a no-brainer from what you have described.


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