# I went to church - rant



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I went to church today to assist my 84yr old neighbor with the stairs. There are only 3 stairs outside but it's sandy gravel at the bottom which washes away somewhat. This makes the bottom step higher than the normal 9". Even with my help she really struggled. During the service I noticed 4 senior ladies were missing, the ones with bad knees. As we were about to leave the church, the pastor was busy glad handing, I approached and expressed my disappointment in the church for abandoning some of the senior ladies. My remark confused him. I reminded him of the ramp which was supposed to have been built almost a year ago. As he started to make excuses I waved them off. Now maybe something will get done.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Sounds like a good project for you and some friends to fix and help those in need who have trouble accessing those stairs.

No need to wait on someone else to fix it :wink:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

what's your point in posting this? I understand , from past posts, that you have little respect for the Christian church. why, then, involve yourself?


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

I tend to side with Tiny when I hear you use phrases like "glad handing" and "waved them off".

I hope I'm wrong


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

The pope sits on a golden thrown.... 85 year old ladies put their lives at risk to hobble in and out of church. Priorities?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

The Pope had more on his shoulders than you or I can possibly imagine. I, for one, have respect for him and his deep ethic of service and devotion to his faith.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

The Pope probably has no idea the steps at this one particular little church has problems with the steps. There was no reference to what type of church this was other than the Pastor.
Could be Baptist ,Evangelist,Pentacostal etc etc.. Why blame the Pope ? for steps. 
perhaps bringing this up and explaining the situation and talking to other church goers to express their concern to the Pastor would get the ball rolling and the ramp put in.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

The old hippie in me says host a wheelchair sit in outside the church. Invite a reporter.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> what's your point in posting this? I understand , from past posts, that you have little respect for the Christian church. why, then, involve yourself?


I tend to give respect where it's due, not just because it IS. Would you respect a police officer known to be on the take, JUST because he wears that badge and uniform?


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

SlideStop said:


> The pope sits on a golden thrown.... 85 year old ladies put their lives at risk to hobble in and out of church. Priorities?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catholicism and Christianity are two completely different religions. So if this was a christian church, that's completely irrelevant.😁
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

No. They are two variations of the same thing. Like wearing a blue shirt or a red shirt. Still a shirt.



Jumping4Joy said:


> Catholicism and Christianity are two completely different religions. So if this was a christian church, that's completely irrelevant.😁
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Hmm...if this was a Christian church where does the Pope come in because as I know, the Pope is for Catholics. 

And how do you know those 5 other missing ladies were "abandoned"? Perhaps they weren't feeling well or didn't feel like getting out because of the weather.

As for the stairs, you can't blame the pastor for the gravel getting washed away. If there is a board committee, bring up the subject when they meet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Jumping4Joy said:


> Catholicism and Christianity are two completely different religions. So if this was a christian church, that's completely irrelevant.😁
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are wrong. Catholics were the FIRST christians (crusades anyone?). Others are denominations of christianity. Judaism is not christian, they don't believe in Jesus. Muslims are not christian (ditto), nor are Shintos, etc.


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## dkb811 (Oct 15, 2013)

It appears to me that that you posted this to stir up trouble. Let's all have another long argument about Christianity and the shortcomings of churches, is that it? If you really care so much about those ladies, take matters in your own hands and do something about it! God bless and Merry Christmas!


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

The Jews do believe in Jesus but not as the son of god, just a really smart rabbi/prophet, "get it together folks" type dude. Likewise for the Muslims.

It's unfortunate that more people don't understand the early history of the Abrahamic religions. They are really so close. Be a whole lot less wars and bickering. They have so shaped our world. It's a history worth knowing.

Personally I'd love to have tea with the Dali Lama. Very sensible man.

Is there some sort of church hierarchy you can complain to? Climb the chain of command. I know all our meetinghouses in town all have ramps. Some of the older ones have ramps in odd places but still they are there.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Based on my years in various baptist churches around the country...had I been the pastor, I'd have thanked you for you interest in joining the Building Committee and tracking down options, pricing concrete, contractors vs self-help, etc. Or maybe asked if you remembered the business meeting the previous month where it was shelved pending an option to get the parking lot redone at the same time. Or maybe asked if you had donated to the building fund that pays for the projects.

We had erosion that was causing problems near the front door. The initial idea was to pour some concrete, but discussions with pros revealed fixing it would require regrading the entire (dirt) parking lot and installing concrete in some areas to channel water flow. We used wheelbarrows and shovels to minimize the problem but it took a while for a small church to save up the money to pay for a long-term fix. The old ladies in our church are very regular at the business meetings, so they were all aware of what caused the delay.

We could have saved up money faster by suspending the money we give to orphanages and missions for a few months, but the old ladies and our 80 year old deacon opposed that idea...so it took about a year. And FWIW, our pastor (63) probably puts in 50+ hrs/week and gets paid a whopping $2,000/month. He has a full plate and always appreciates offers to help.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

> Personally I'd love to have tea with the Dali Lama. Very sensible man


I would so very much like to join you.


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

squirrelfood said:


> You are wrong. Catholics were the FIRST christians (crusades anyone?). Others are denominations of christianity. Judaism is not christian, they don't believe in Jesus. Muslims are not christian (ditto), nor are Shintos, etc.


I go to Christian school where I am told evey day that Catholicism is not Christianity. The first Christians called themselves Christians, not Catholic, as Christian means "little Christ" before they split into different factions. Most Christians back then were converted Jews. The Crusades happened MUCH later than when Christianity was created. Most Christian religionsfind Catholicism to be a false Christian religion because they openly break the 10 commandments by worshipping statues, and praying to saints instead of God. If it is considered a false religion, it is not considered to be a part of Christianity. I'm just sharing, and I wasnt trying to cause any arguments.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I think most people consider any religion that considers Christ the son of God a Christian religion. 

Saddlebag, I am with you. Someone needs to solve this problem, even if it is a temporary step, and it should not have to be someone from outside this church like you.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

Alrighty so, I'm not really interested in the religion debate, but I am going to comment on the real situation here.

The pastor is not responsible for the stairs being built. The congregation is. If you're serious about this being built, you need to approach the church council. They are the ones that make the decisions. The pastor merely brings ideas to the table and gets to put in his input. He's not "in charge." He's a leader. 

And if you're really, REALLY serious about this, yes, sounds like a good project. You don't have to do it by yourself, but you can start a committee to handle the project. The steps may have not been built because of missing funds. A lot of churches are struggling to make money today.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

This isn't rocket science! I built my mom "half steps" for her porch because her knees are bad and the steps were too tall. Took me a couple of after work days. 

And Saddlebag isn't a member of this church! It's not her job to contact the deacons or whatever. Even if the pastor isn't "in charge," he should be an advocate for his parishioners!


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## sunnyone (Sep 4, 2014)

Let say, for a moment, this wasn't a church. What would you do then? Let it go and complain, or take the initiative to help and figure out a solution?


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Oh goody, another thread to bash on Christianity *sigh*

Why not step up and help the Church? Organize a group of people to build new steps for the church.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

sunnyone said:


> Let say, for a moment, this wasn't a church. What would you do then? Let it go and complain, or take the initiative to help and figure out a solution?


It depends. If it was a Starbucks with a poor entrance my mom was having trouble getting up, I'd complain to the manager and expect him (or higher) to fix it permanently and ASAP. If it was the pizza place owned by the local guy, I'd still complain and expect him to fix it, though I'd expect there might be some interim solution (plywood ramp or something) for a while until he got it sorted. If it was my own, my best friend's or my sister's business, then I'd sit down and we'd figure out a solution and get at least something temporary set up asap. 

So yeah. No matter who is in charge, if little old ladies are part of the expected clientele, or even just a general open to the public business, I would expect some sort of solution, even if it was just temporary, in short order rather than a brush off excuse. 

This makes me a little hot because we're building a ramp to my aunt's house for this very reason for my grandma. The steps are just too much. Another aunt has a similar issue. It's not unreasonable to expect a church to help their folks get inside safely.


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

Not going to debate religion or churches. But maybe something like a mounting block could be used until funds became available, cause of drainage problem, or whatever steps/ committee/ channels the church has to go through to find a permanent solution.


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## sunnyone (Sep 4, 2014)

No, not unreasonable to expect the owners of a building to fix steps. But it seems irrelevant that it is a church or the pizza place with an issue. 

I guess, with me, if there is an issue that would make me so angry because it affected my family and friends, there is no way I would wait a year. An outsider can just call the county and complain.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I wasn't bashing Christianity. Some people have missed the point. Church is very important to my neighbor as are other ladies, which I respect. The pastor told me they made application to the building inspector over a year ago. No one has bothered to do a followup. There are four churches within a small area and this is the only church without a ramp. If the frail can't get to church who is looking after their needs? The pastor doesn't seem to realize this has a lot to do with his shrinking flock as people go elsewhere. BTW, even the restaurants have ramps so they don't lose that potential business.


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## sunnyone (Sep 4, 2014)

I think talking to the Pastor was great. You reminded him of the Church responsibilities. 

Having ramps or accommodations for people with disabilities is also the law. 

If they don't follow through now, or your lady friends are having difficulties, contact the county. The county will follow up.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

sunnyone said:


> ...Having ramps or accommodations for people with disabilities is also the law.
> 
> If they don't follow through now, or your lady friends are having difficulties, contact the county. The county will follow up.


The church I'm in was built in 1965. It has been grandfathered in on code updates over the last 50 years. If we had to install a handicapped bathroom, for example, we'd have to build it as an addition to the building because the existing restrooms are not structurally capable of upgrade. We would like to add 1000 sq ft to have room for more kids, but estimates for adding it are out of our budget's range.

Adding a ramp to a church building is different than adding one to your home. The rules are different because the church is a public building. A church I belonged to when I lived in California wanted to pave the parking lot. By the time the county loaded us down with requirements for supermarket style lights, new electrical lines to support those lights, mandatory this and that, the project was in the 500K-1M range...so we graded the existing dirt parking lot again.

I have no idea what the actual situation is in the OP's church. I'm just pointing out that what seems like obvious solutions are often more complicated. When someone on the building committee goes to the county to ask about code or looks for bids, they are doing it on their own time. In many churches, the decisions on spending money always go through a vote in the business meetings, held quarterly in our church. Many small churches have volunteer pastors. Many also have old buildings. They do what they can, but what they can do is sometimes limited.


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## danny67 (Nov 27, 2012)

I can tell ya it's not a Lutheran church! 

Althought we don't like change, the women's group would be all over the property committee to get it done ASAP. and if still no action, they would withhold potlucks and cofffee 'n doughnuts.


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

Saddlebag said:


> I wasn't bashing Christianity. Some people have missed the point. Church is very important to my neighbor as are other ladies, which I respect. The pastor told me they made application to the building inspector over a year ago. No one has bothered to do a followup. There are four churches within a small area and this is the only church without a ramp. If the frail can't get to church who is looking after their needs? The pastor doesn't seem to realize this has a lot to do with his shrinking flock as people go elsewhere. BTW, even the restaurants have ramps so they don't lose that potential business.



Of course the pastor has done nothing to remedy the issue with the steps in the past year: he was too busy using ( and trashing) Saddlebags stock trailer to haul his cattle ( not to mention him trying to steal it recently) throw in his taking advantage of another elderly parishioner ( read her post on it) This post had zero to do with religion. The so called pastor has been determined to be a scumbag who uses his position solely for his advantage. 
And Saddlebag, I'm still trying to find that hitch lock for ya. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

SueNH said:


> The old hippie in me says host a wheelchair sit in outside the church. Invite a reporter.


Far out!!! This old hippie agrees, totally. Peace and love 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

This is a village. I see the other ladies on other occasions and they've all complained about that bottom step and the lack of ramp. But, old ladies won't say anything because they don't want to cause a fuss. It was a year ago that I wrote a cheque to this organization for the cost of material for the ramp. Why, because it's important for these elderly gals who are in their 80's and one is 94 to be able to attend what they feel is their church. Years ago I wanted a piece of government owned land. Did all the paperwork and waited, and waited. Enough was enough. Every time I had to go to "the big city" I popped into the agent's office. I did this many times to the point he'd try to duck out when he saw me coming. It paid off. I got the land much to the chagrin of locals. When questioned as to how an outsider (their term) was able to get this land I told them it was because I kept hounding the agent and didn't take no or maybe for an answer. This is what needs to be done with the building inspector to get the permit to build the ramp to his specifications and no one is doing it.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

So, do it yourself. Bug the building inspector. You are wasting time complaining about it here.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

People like building inspectors rarely listen much to people NOT actually involved in the project at hand. The OP is NOT a member of the church in question, therefore has nothing to say about how the matter proceeds, other than hopefully shaming the pastor into dealing with it. Would you like ME to have a say in YOUR building permits?


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

sunnyone said:


> Let say, for a moment, this wasn't a church. What would you do then? Let it go and complain, or take the initiative to help and figure out a solution?


Or would you simply realize that you don't need a building, speaker, organ or a program to worship the God of your choice. Just do it.
You don't need a special day of the week.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Saddlebag,

it's very kind of you to offer your own funds to make the step happen for the ladies of the village.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

saddlebag, i hope the ramps and steps get fixed for the little old ladies. 

As for some of the other comments, you need to go take some College classes in theology very misinformed.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Stevenson, how am I misinformed?


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

And depending on the theology/ seminary college it is, you will get the same ideas displayed here. Maybe more polished, but the same.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

saddlebag, I did not state you were misinformed... i stated some of the other comments people are misinformed. 

This post was about how to help get stairs or ramps for 80 yr old women . Not about religious views.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I apologize. My mother, an English teacher, would have given you high marks for correctly reading what I'd written. Most of the others would have failed. "What I said is not what you read".


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Helped my neighbor again today. Bitterly cold. The steps into the church, all 3, hadn't been properly cleaned off and were full of icey bumps by the hand railing. I was scared the neighbor would lose her footing and I sure didn't want to hear a bone cracking. She's not petite by any means and if she started to go down I could only hope to slow the fall. She outweighs me by 100 lbs. or more. I'm beginning to think men must be blind to not see this.


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

That's what I was wondering. Even the smallest of churches I have been to have volunteer ushers for this very type of thing.


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

it is up to the board to get the ramp done not the preacher ( minster )


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