# Genetics on Arab mare



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Here is some of the lineage of my arab mare, that I was given, she no longer is being used as brood mare. 
Dont know what any one thinks of these lines, but I will see what comments people have, then I will post this mares pic. 
sire : Talesis - by *Talal out of Shammama. Talal is by Nazeer out of Zaafrana . Nazeer is by Mansour out of Bint Samiha
SHammama by Theebytpian prince by *Morafic . out of *Bint Mona;
*Bint shams by ELsareei out of SHams

Dam side : sire was GA Andrea by Imperial Imperor by ansata Imperial out of Imperial Mistry . Anasta Imperial is by Ansata Ibn Sudan out of Ansata Delilah. Imperial Mistry is by Mosry +++ out of Ansata nile mist.
*Ansata karmia by Kaisoon out of jkb belkies. Kaisoon is by Nazeer out of Bint Kateefa. Jkb belkies is by Galal out Koria. 
After the year there are letters G RAS / B RAS . C EAO /B EAO /GASB 
I had at one time.looked this info up, but since I did not plan on doing anything with the mare did not write down what any of it meant. One is that is Egyptian , one thing meant Royal the * and +++ ??
so opinions, and by the lineage what would you think this horse should look like ?


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

really.. no comments on this lineage ??


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Sorry I don't know anything about Arabians . Are you gonna share pics??!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

... WS Arabians will be here to answer!


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

From first glance it looks like she is Straight Eygptian with some nice old classic breeding. If you add her to allbreedpedigree.com I can get her ancestry straight, because in my head it isn't really working out. LOL

RAS is the Royal Agricultural Society, EAO is the Eygptian Argicultural Orginization (EAO) and GASB is the German Arabian Stud Book. 
These are orginizations made like the Al Kasma, Blue List, Early American Foundation for types of Arabians. 
The G, C, or B is for Grey, Chestnut, Bay. 
The + sign's are symbols of show status - ie/ Legion Of Merit, Legion of Supreme Honour, etc.


She's got a lot of racing in her pedigree, and a lot of halter horses. She should be a fairly well put together mare with some good atheletic ability, probably not a whole lot of depth to her but will be more of the stretchy type. 
But.... I could be wrong! LOL
Would love to see some photo's!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

here is the bootiful Princess Talesis.
In all her regal glory... and there is still someone out there breeding one of her sons , standing him at stud. and to think , he could be passing on these genetics. Plus on top of it, this horse is Stupid. She is seriously stupid. I got her and her papers with her, she was like an 8 on the scale, I figured she would die. She looks Good in this pic. she is a lot fatter now.She has horrid legs, horrid back, neck ties in wrong, . she has a cute face and that is about it. lol.. I call her Miss Pity for Pitiful. So bloodlines dont always work ..


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

LOL
Stevenson, you are right. Pedigree`s don`t always work! Sometimes how they are raised or ridden and cared for have a big difference on how they come out. 
But sometimes you get these crop ups that just happen conformationally.
Her son MAY have taken after his sire in the temperment and conformation side of things - unless you`ve seen him person. 
It`s really hard to judge her conformation given the shot, other then the fact that she has a low back which could be from a number of things, however, I have noticed that in a few horses through her pedigree. 
She does, however, seem to have been a stretcher type in her younger days and as per her temperment (thank God this isn`t an Arabian forum) there is a reason I don`t breed SE`s. I`ve seen one exception that really sticks out, and that was TDR Whitestone. 
She still looks like she has the cutest nose for kisses!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I felt so sorry for her when I saw her, and she still had a baby suckin on her. 
The girl that got her and the colt had her for about 2 months feeding her, then tried to take her to the auction and got turned away because the mare was to skinny for them to take. The 'girl' kept asking me to take her, told me she was lead broke for kids.. Big lie.. Not broke to ride...NOO she bucks and Pees while bucking, rears, almost falls down.. But she is really stupid.. I have had weanlings smarter than this horse. No I have not seen a pic of the stallion at stud that is her son, and the breeder shows a pic of a grey horse from the hocks up , covered up in a costume saying it is this mare. The pic makes her look good.. Her back is about 4 inches lower than her withers, she is crooked in back , almost falls when she trots and turns . Poor little horse.. she has a home here until she dies, but then again Im a sucker for the hard luck cases..lol I will try and get some updated pics of her this weekend. But her tail got chewed off .


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Just saw this....
The * means horse is imported. 
Undoubtedly straight Egyptian. Lots of Ansata means small. Pretty but small. Im surprised to see a Kaisoon daughter with Ansata prefix. Kaisoon was the youngest of the three Nazeer sons in Germany. He sired 40! licensed and performance tested sons and more than 150 daughters registered as broodmares( at his time, licensing and performance testing was mandatory, as well as registering the mares as broodmares after inspection).
I will have pics tomorrow.
At least that line isn't bad, and no swayback here. Kaisoon was still halter shown at the age of 25


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Awe! Looks like some groceries will do her good! Congrats Stevenson!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Here is Kaisoon at age 22... no swayback from this line
And for temperament, he was a gift from the Egyptian government to the German government, and could therefore not go to a breeder. He was housed, for nearly 25 years, in a zoo, and used, besides for breeding, as a school horse at a children's riding school. While being the most used Arabian stallion in Germany. 
So it's safe to say Miss Pity's problems are not coming from his, or the Nazeer line.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

She looks gorgeous when she's covered head to tail in purple fabric 



(I'm assuming that's her... looks like the same costume and handler from her AllBreedPedigree photo)


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

she looks good covered up.they would be to ashamed to post a pic of her not covered up! That stallion Kaisoon.. I dont like backs that low, it looks 'wrong' to me, the withers are to high then lol. here are some more pics of her, she does not need more groceries,she did when she came her but that was 5 or so years ago.. if anything she needs a diet, last time Vets were out, both said.. o lord.. that mare is not pregnant is she.. I just laughed .. said no just a piggy ..she is dirty, her tail got chewed off, and she is due for a trim.. I know her faults.. Just using her as an example of what can go wrong breeding.. even if the pedigree is considered good. And I can do this Cause she is my piggy horse !..lol my back is out so the pens did not get cleaned yesterday or today.. Maybe tomorrow. the horse next to her is roan quarter gelding, again great bloodlines, crippled hind leg.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I've got a mare like this as well, and neither of her parents nor anyone in her hertiage sported a sway back. Her dam was actually a multiple halter champion. 
But she was started when she turned two and rode alot. Not sure if that's an issue or if it's just something that popped up out of nowhere. But she's a helluva horse and I'd trust her with anyone - even me when I start riding again once my leg and hip are healed. 
She looks ridiciously cute!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

WS she is not broke to ride, so I dont think anyone did this to her. And she is really dumb. She can hardly canter w/o falling over her butt seems to go one way and the front the other. She is just a mess. Guess thats why I felt sorry for her and took her . I dont have a pic that shows how horrid she was came here, but if you ever saw the 3 stooges and the grey sway back skinny horse, thats what she resembled.. lol.. poor Miss Pity, at least she no longer has to have babies !!


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Has she been tested for CA?


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

for ?/ CA ?? not that I know of.. I dont breed her. She just stands here and eats and ****s. I ended up with her, as a girl that was exercising horses for me, had gotten her and a sorrel colt from some people that had been breeding her to a kemosabi stallion . the girl had the mare for a couple of months, baby still was sucking on her and it was tiny but 6 months old and both were bags of bones. After a couple months the girl tried to take them to auction but got turned away at the auction as they were still too skinny . The girl lived at grandmas. and grandma said get rid of them NOW.. so I took the mare. Probably should have taken both, but I was not paying for a colt that I really did not want , and the mare was supposed to be lead line safe for light weight kids which was a HUGE lie, and glad I did not jsut plop a kid on her back !!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Verona. well they claim it is her, I dont know them. Not the pic i saw of the mare from a ranch with a diff name that is no longer around, so i dont know if this is the mare or not. I have emailed that ranch, and they do not reply


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

It's a genetic disease. Clumsiness / shakes can be a symptom. 
Welcome to the CA web !


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I have a 23 year old Arab mare that has a killer pedigree and yet she is not that well put together. She is a little bit swaybacked and she toes out a bit. Her back may have come from early over use and her hooves may have been trimmed improperly when she was young. Or maybe her genetics didn't click. 

She is, however, a great riding horse. She is also very personable and kind and would never kick or bite anyone. I never bred her. I didn't buy her to breed but to ride.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

update.. the 'breeder' of this mare has contacted me. and wants the mare back. I have had her since 07 , found her reg papers, this mare was skin and bones when she came to me. 
I am have to shake my head, starve and give away a mare and foal, and then want them back.. why to breed and starve again? I did send back an email to her asking some questions, as there is a son of this mare Standing at stud. I have to aks about the CA test . Probably never done, it sure sounds like this mares problem. Her response to any discipline is to rear, and then she almost falls.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Well, technically this mare is your so unless she wants to pay and you want to sell she has no grounds to demand her back.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

she offered to pay for the mare. she said she gave the mare and foal away as the property where she had the horses said she had to move them, and she thought she gave them to a good home. I have not heard of her ranch,or stallion, and she has not answered some of my questions. I am gonna check her out, through some people I know , see if she is a legit and decent person, if she checks out, I may let her buy the mare back. I have already told the arab horse assoc that the mare was never to be bred and that i destroyed her papers. ( i still have the papers) because at one point i had someone that would take her, but the agreement was no breeding, and then I found that person was not being honest, so the mare never left here. no money ever exchanged hands, no paper work .


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

How interesting! It's a shame it's not as easy, cheap and routine to spay mares who shouldn't be bred as it is with studs; it would certainly make the decision easier to sell her back to the breeder who used to own her if you knew she couldn't be bred again. It might be enough that they can't register any of her foals, but who knows?


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

There is no such thing as a "dumb" horse. Have her tested (CA), it is not the mare's fault. She's gorgeous and has absolutely wonderful bloodlines.

Horses that rear or act out like that are reacting to either pain, or fear. Have the vet run tests on her.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

well, yes there are dumb horses.. this horse happens to be one. Just like some people are lots smarter than other people. Nope she will not be seeing a Vet.
Vets have seen her. she probably does have back pain ,and she is an ugg on top of it. lol.. and I dont know if she go will go back to the original breeder, or if she will just live out the rest of her life here.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm afraid im with Remali on that. Clumsiness, falling over her own feet and everything else you mentioned could be a neurological problem and certainly has nothing to do with being dumb. 
Same with the back, not necessarily bad breeding, it can be a problem with minerals lacking in the bone, she could have been bred too early and a whole slew of other things. 
I'd suggest check out her breeders and if they're seriously interested in giving her a retirement home, let her go.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

stevenson said:


> she offered to pay for the mare. she said she gave the mare and foal away as the property where she had the horses said she had to move them, and she thought she gave them to a good home. I have not heard of her ranch,or stallion, and she has not answered some of my questions. I am gonna check her out, through some people I know , see if she is a legit and decent person, if she checks out, I may let her buy the mare back. I have already told the arab horse assoc that the mare was never to be bred and that i destroyed her papers. ( i still have the papers) because at one point i had someone that would take her, but the agreement was no breeding, and then I found that person was not being honest, so the mare never left here. no money ever exchanged hands, no paper work .



Well.... Unless your a registered rescue, you can't make any stipulations like that. Once she is sold and money changes hands, she isn't yours to call the shots on. Much like you can't sell a car and tell the driver that they can't speed. 
Just get vet, farrier, and a character reference and hope for the best. It's all we can do when we sell a horse.
I know if I came across one of my old horses, I would want them back. Same if someone wanted one that I've been gifted - Letting go would be harder but..


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but here goes... this poor mare is NOT dumb, her clumisness and falling is a result of either CA or some other health issue. There are not dumb horses, but there are dumb breeders/owners who refuse to test for such things as CA, etc.

If this horse is in pain and falling over, someone needs to take care of her properly and she needs a vet.... why let a horse in pain go on suffering and falling? I am rather appalled. Maybe her original breeder would be a good home for her?


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

okay, i say the horse is pain probably due ot her curved drop back, and her age. she is NOt ridden. THe horse has been seen by VETS. leave her alone dont breed her.. well duh.. The horse is dumb. I have had horses for many years, many horses, some i trained, this horse is dumb. an example.. you clean the water trough, move it four inches.. she is afraid of it. Same water trough for the last 5 yrs, same general area she can see just fine. It is not her clumsiness that makes her dumb. I am talking she acts brain damage dumb. She will run through a fence. My horses are CARed for. I have a very smart quarab. IT is just this horse. brain damaged. If the woman wants the horse back, and answers my questions, i will probably let her, as I have in the past had to get rid of horses and wanted one or two back but could never find them. BUt again, My horses see the VEt and I do what the VETs recommend. also, it the woman ends up having a rep as breed em and dump em , she wont get the horse back.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Horses do not run thru fences because they are dumb.

If you dislike this poor horse so much, why don't you just re-home her to someone who will love her? Have you ever had her eyes checked??


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

The horse has seen a VEt. there is nothing wrong with her eyes ,AS i have stated Before. 
I never said I disliked the horse, and how do you know how I take care of my animals. pretty rude of you to assume I hate the horse, and dont take care of her. I did not breed the horse, and use her as an example of how things can go Wrong NO MATTER the lineage. GEt it>


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

You keep on saying she is a dumb horse, it seemed to me you did not think much of the horse for saying that. And, for what its worth, you did state in one of your posts that you were not going to have the vet look at the horse and the horse was in pain (post # 26).... what am I to make of that? Nevermind. I just find it odd anyone would think a horse is dumb because it may have health issues that cause it to stumble/fall often.

I never said you hated the horse. And where did I say that you don't take care of her? Geez.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

so, the ex owner of this mare and I email each other. she goes on and on how she lost the mare, how it broke it her heart and how excited she is to have found the mare . So to make sure the horse wont be going back t oa breeding situation , I ask her questions. where is she located ? does she plan on breeding her , how many horses does she have, she wants to know what happened to the foal that was on the mare when she gave the mare away, i give her the info I have, she gets an attitude, goes off on how she is trained this way and that way for riding horses or such, how the Prince of Saudi and his son are going to buy AI semen from the stallion that was foaled out of this mare in 2003, that she has never checked for that CA disease, but will be doing so NOW, so I email her back and ask again , what are you plans for the mare if I let you have her back .. She does not reply. Wierd, if she was so heart broken over the mare, seems to me she would want the mare back even if she could not use her for breeding.. Anyone ever hear of Shamamai arabians?


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Remali said:


> You keep on saying she is a dumb horse, it seemed to me you did not think much of the horse for saying that.


I call one of my cats dumb all the time. And I believe he truly is dumber than my other cat. He's still a wonderful cat (luckily he's a friendly stupid), but if I dumped the two of them on the street tomorrow, the smarter one could figure out how to take care of herself and the dumb one would just follow people around until someone took pity on him or he starved. Saying that an animal is dumb doesn't mean you don't like them or take care of them.

She's likely not in pain from the swayback- it's a very dramatic looking condition but is not painful for the horse and they can even be ridden if you can find a saddle that fits them (because a poorly fitting saddle will still hurt them, even if the swayback itself doesn't!) The Truth about Horse Swaybacks


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Its Shamai I think. 
The mare has two registered offspring, both stallions, neither of them has registered offspring.....


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I saw that site, got the name wrong.. lol ..shamai ..
I dont think that she is getting this mare back. she has not given me any answers as to what and why etc.. if she misses the mare so much ,and wanted her back before i said.. no breeding her because she is 17 yrs old now, and has tehy tumors on her side, inside leg, on a teat and her head. she wont tell me where her ranch is. Taft is pretty spread out , and the address I see for her is in the town not a horse property..


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Its Shamai I think.
> The mare has two registered offspring, both stallions, neither of them has registered offspring.....


She has 3 listed on AllBreedPedigree (plus a 4th that appears to be a duplicate). All of their names start with Shamai, so you can be pretty sure the breeder who wants her back produced all 3. If she already has one unregistered get from this mare, odds are not being able to register won't stop her from breeding again if that is her intent :-|


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That's on allbreed? I had AHA checked. Two are registered with AHA.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Here's the progeny report from ABP: Princess Talesis Arabian

As always, it's not necessarily the most reliable source for information, but can be useful when you don't have access to registry info. I figured you must have checked the registry


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

A *Talal granddaughter, can't be very many of them left. This mare has a spectacular pedigree, no wonder she's so beautiful. And The Egyptian Prince too. El Sareei was also known for his beauty.

Who was she bred to? I tried to look at the progeny report, but all that came up was her pedigree.
ETA: Aha, OK, I got the progeny report to come up now...
She was bred to some nice stallions, would especially like to see the foal from the *Simeon Shai son.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Unfortunately no pics on their website, it is very strange.....


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I don't mean to be rude, but you say the mare is stupid because she stumbles and when I look in the photo of her the toes on her front hooves are terribly long. I wouldn't expect a horse to be able to canter at all with that kind of breakover.

The other things like running through a fence and shying at her water trough if it is moved...many Arabians have a much higher sense of self preservation than other horses. They are quick to notice changes in their surroundings and will react to things that other horses will not. This gives them the reputation of being spooky and crazy.

I think it is OK to call a horse stupid if it is an affectionate term, but it sounds like you are using the term literally. You don't actually mean that your horse is mentally disabled and can't find her way back into the barn or figure out how to eat food. What you are describing are behaviors that you don't understand because your other horses don't behave that way.

If a horse behaves differently than other horses it doesn't mean they are less intelligent. That would be like saying if a hearing impaired person and a normally hearing person were sitting next to each other and the person who hears normally jumped at a loud sound, then the person that jumped is less intelligent than the other one. No, the sound just seemed louder to the person who jumped. Changes in the environment are "louder" to some Arabians, and that is why they react.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

yes , strange it is. only pics she sent me the horses had on blankets. 
she claims she only bred twice, but there are 3 off spring ,on ABP 2003 Shamai Maran Adon , 2006 Shamai zebadani khemo , which I think these are on the web page , and then the 2007 colt I saw Shamai Elnabi Khemo.. so I wonder does she have the third colt now? There is an ad on craiglist for a colt for 500 bucks in Taft, and the lady said the excessive kemo got in and bred her mare, and in the back ground is a SKINNY mare. Cannot get an address.. and Pity is a sad lookin little horse, only cute or pretty thing on her is her face. I looked at the pics on ABP and there were some decent looking horses in her pedigree, and some not so hot lookin that reminded me of Pity's shape. 
Verona lol.. yep some critters just fall a tad short .. you crack me up !! love em all the same..


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

had you read the post, you would see it says she is due for a trim. her hind end moves diff then her front end. I guess that ARAB quirkiness is why she spooks when you hand feed her carrots apples or senior feed .. 
And no I do not think Visually or Hearing impaired people are stupid. FOr all you know I could be hearing impaired.. so rude is not a term I would use...


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

the discussion on this thread is now closed.


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