# Training the stubborn horse??????



## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

I need all the help I can get because I am not sure I can afford to make this decision with emotions involved. I have a Registered Paint horse on trial-and the 2 weeks is up on Thursday. I am only 2+ months back in the saddle after 25 years, and aspire to use the horse for showing-lower level Dressage. He does not have a mean bone in his body, but is quite stubborn-meaning getting him to move forward, trot, etc. can be quite a feat! Lots of kicking on my part. He does eventually concede.I am in the top 2% of people in this world with extreme patience, and am not lacking in the determination area either. My very experienced trainer can get him to move better than I can, but it is a feat for her sometimes. He was once used for a lesson horse, but has had the last year of so off with only light trail riding. Stubborn and bratty! He is cute as can be and is very presentable show wise-built up hill, healthy and sound (of course there will be a PPE). He is also sweet-great ground manners, not at all scary and a good confidence builder-which is something I need. SO-is it possible to train the stubborn brattiness behavior out of the horse and get him to move around the ring? I am surrounded by people that are willing to help which is a big plus, and he is priced well enough that I can afford the extra training. PLEASE give me your stories and opinions on this! This is a bit heart-tugging!


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## tblver (Jul 9, 2011)

I personally don't think it is stubbornness or brattiness....unless of course when you're cueing to walk, trot, whatever, he pins his ears every time you ask.

I think what has happened that if he is the confidence builder you say, and he has been used as a beginner lesson horse, he's just become dead to any cue you might have. It can be fixed, which is the good news, but it definitely requires experienced hands/legs.


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

No ear pinning-no meanness. He does do a little head toss/jump in the front when you ask him to trot-but that is getting better every time I ride. My trainer is going to have the trainer next door to ride him for a second opinion on getting him to move forwards.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

He is likely shutting down from lesson kids kicking him. What has worked for me is continual tapping with a riding crop, just rhythmical tapping. The rhythm is important but quit the moment he even shifts his body. Do this behind your leg. Think of it as a kid tapping you on the arm steadily to annoy or get your attention until you react. If he absolutely won't move tap a little harder. It will get uncomfortable for him and he'll move away from it. Be sure to quite instantly. His reward is that the tapping stops when he moves. They don't always catch on the first few times but usually by the third time or maybe even the fourth. Once he's moving just walk him around the arena once and put him away. Repeat the tapping if he won't respond to your leg (calf muscle) not your heels. Kicking just shuts him down. He's likely fed up to the hilt with arena work. Have you tried him on the trails with a few other horses. You'd be surprised how much training one can do on the trails, yet being out there is refreshing for the horse.


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

I am pretty sure he has not done much arena work. Yesterday I just rode him around the field-and he will move out when the mood strikes him. One day I was using a little paddle crop-the kind with the spatula-type end on it and that worked better. However he does not like any kind of whip that has some length to it. He tried to take off with me one day until I dropped it. He is OK with the lunge whip when being lunged, and lunges on voice commands so he has some training somewhere in his background. I will try the tapping-it seemed to work one day for my trainer who has a far better seat than I do.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

*aqha professional horseman*

i would not suggest a whip or crop they get used to it and it puts you out of balance with your horse.when i get one that is sour or dead sided i start off in small circles slightly raking his rib cage and gradually i open my circles up


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

Thanks Rob-I will try that.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

Julirs said:


> Thanks Rob-I will try that.


do you or your trainer use spurs and if so what type of rowel do you use


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

We have not used spurs. It does seem he is getting better every ride. My trainer rode him again last night and he did great! Hopefully he is just adjusting. PPE Thursday if the vet would get back to me! I may just have my first horse! I cannot even describe how amazing this is!


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

thats great.please keep me informed.


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

Well-someone must have taken my horse and replaced him. My trainer rode him Monday and tonight when I got on him he did everything that was asked of him. It was almost as if he knew if he did not behave he could not stay. It was amazing! PPE tomorrow-wish me luck. It will kill me to have to give him up now.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

Julirs said:


> Well-someone must have taken my horse and replaced him. My trainer rode him Monday and tonight when I got on him he did everything that was asked of him. It was almost as if he knew if he did not behave he could not stay. It was amazing! PPE tomorrow-wish me luck. It will kill me to have to give him up now.


good job julirs,jurt remember,a horse is like a sculpture. you have to peck at it a little at a time to get a great thing.please keep us posted


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

Will do Rob-thanks for your support. 2 PM cannot come soon enough!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I would sure love to see some video or, at least, some photos.


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> I would sure love to see some video or, at least, some photos.



You can see a lunging video here:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/video-dakota-lunge-line-93578/

And a few not so great pictures here:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/prospect-4-what-do-you-see-92598/


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

He passed his PPE and his paid for and mine all mine!


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

Your post remind me of an experience from my past, here is my story:

I was going into my 2nd year of college for an equine degree. I have previously sold my horse and needed a new horse to take to college with me. The plan was to take one of my training horses and in the meantime I would look for a horse of my own because I could always switch horses during the school year. 2 weeks before I went back to college, the training horse came up lame and couldn't be ridden, so I had only 14 days to find a horse to ride for class. I am a dressage rider and wanted something to fit the discipline. I found an important Irish Sport/TB gelding and seemed to fit what I was looking for. He was absolutely georgeous and I was so excited that I missed a few red flags that were very obvious. The horse had been in full training for several months and was easy enough to handle on the ground, but when it came to riding, he never wanted to move forward into a nice working trot. He was a bit sluggish and he did at times pin his ears. Never more than that, but it was still a sign of his personality. Fast forward...bought the horse, took him to college. "Jack" was very protective of his stall. He was fine if you just went in, but did not like people sticking their fingers in; in fact he would try to bite if they did. Jack was decent enough to ride in the beginner, but as school progressed he got grouchier and grouchier. I believe he did have some mild arthritis, but nothing so terrible to make him that crabby. He was the kind of horse who hated to work and the more you made him, the more reluctant he became. I tried whips and he crow hopped all the time, I tried spurs and he kicked at the spurs. Maybe their was some deeper issue that I was not seeing, but this horse was only 6 years old at the time. I owned this horse for over 3 years and it was all a constant fight. I finally ended up trading him for a different horse because nobody wanted to buy him because of his attitude. He was a sweetheart on the ground and he was great in the saddle if you just gave him a long loopy rein, but the minute you collected the rein, all forward motion was lost. 

I guess what I am trying to get at is that I loved this horse no matter how much of a brat he was, but he was no fun to ride because he was such a stinker. I am now much pickier in what I buy because of this experience. Sluggish horses are trainable, but that is no guarantee it won't always be a constant struggle. If I were you, after being out of the saddle for 25+ years, I recommend purchasing an older trained horse. A lesson horse is fine, but don't get back into horses by taking on a training project the first time. You need to just ride and have fun for a few years and then maybe look into a small training project. I am only saying this because not riding for 25 years is a long time and for now you should just focus on having fun and rebuilding your skills.


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## Julirs (May 18, 2011)

Thank you for the story and I agree with you on every point. We kept him for 2 weeks to evaluate his stubborness. It seems that is was only a matter of him settling in, because as of last night he is a different horse-I only had to ask him to trot and barely had to kick him. My trainer rode him on Monday and he was excellent, and I rode him last night and it was like night and day. He is a sweet and loving horse that I feel safe on and he will certainly help me rebuild my skills. I am having the time of my life!


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## lovemarcy (Jun 5, 2011)

so excited for you! i'm glad you like him and I hope he work out well for you in the future!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

OK, now you MUST provide us with a victory video!!!


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