# Looking to cut out grain. suggestions?



## Audra0729 (Feb 25, 2009)

As the title says I am looking to get my horses off grain with them now being in my back yard and not at a stable. I rode a TWH that only had grain on occasion and she never got skinny.

They are in a lush pasture, and are rotated between 2 to keep the grass growing.


Suggestions please.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Take it out then =). Horses don't need grain, it's like potato chips to humans. 
My mare needs it though because it's very hard to keep weight on her. ESP if you have good forage, it will be better for their health.


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## Audra0729 (Feb 25, 2009)

Do I need to wean them off it?
Do I need to feed more hay?


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

As long as they have enough grass, you should be able to keep them on the same amount your feeding them now. In the wild they usually forage and eat 22 hours of the day so I always like to keep something in front of them to munch on. I've been told that you only need to wean them off when your changing feeds, in your case your just cutting it out. What do you feed them?. You could think about just giving them some supplements if you feel they aren't getting enough from their hay.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

For "grain" I feed mine 1/2 scoop of Alfalfa pellets (3 qt scoop, about 1.5 lbs) with flax and Nutri-Plus supplement. I use the flax because we do not have any grazing (hfresh grass has Omega 3's, but hay does not). You could skip that part and do just the hay pellets and supplement. It makes a well rounded diet without the sugar and starch! If you find any losing weight, you can increase the hay pellets. During the winter, feed plenty of grass hay and add in the flax.


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## Audra0729 (Feb 25, 2009)

well they get a mix of pellet and sweet feed along with daily dewormer, joint supplement and bran... I like to keep them on the 4 'supplements'. I know joint supplement comes in pellet form.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

They won't need bran (wheat bran actually isn't good for horses on a regular basis). Use the hay pellets to mix the dewormer, joint supplements, and vitamin supplements. I use a little water or Apple Cider Vinegar (helps with flies) to mix everything together.


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## Audra0729 (Feb 25, 2009)

by flax you mean flax seed right? have never known anyone to feed flax hence why I dont know.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Yes, flax seed, whole or milled. You can buy 50 lb sacks of whole flax from most feed stores (most will order it if they don't carry it). Just feed it whole, horses eat and digest it fine.

Or you can buy milled flax products like NutraFlax from horsetech.com and Omega Horseshine from Omeghafields.com. You won't need it with your fresh pasture though, only when you have to start feeding hay in the winter.


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## Audra0729 (Feb 25, 2009)

I have to feed bran. my horse colics without it, they hay is very fine here. when I move back to MI tho I will be taking them off it, they hay is just different.

how much Flax tho? a handful?


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

1/4 to 1/2 cup is good. Up to 1 cup for weight gain or hard keepers.


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## aynelson (Jun 13, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> For "grain" I feed mine 1/2 scoop of Alfalfa pellets (3 qt scoop, about 1.5 lbs) with flax and Nutri-Plus supplement. I use the flax because we do not have any grazing (hfresh grass has Omega 3's, but hay does not). You could skip that part and do just the hay pellets and supplement. It makes a well rounded diet without the sugar and starch! If you find any losing weight, you can increase the hay pellets. During the winter, feed plenty of grass hay and add in the flax.


I have been dying to take my horses off Strategy. Your feeding regime is the very combination that I have thought about. Alfalfa seems like the best thing for horses, but with the pellet form does this mean we don't have to worry about blister beetles? Do you have to soak the alfalfa pellets? Why do feed companies poison our horses with starch and sugar anyway?


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## FlitterBug (May 28, 2009)

I have a feeding program very similar to Luvs2Ride and it has gone much better than it every has with feed.

Picky eaters suddenly gain appetites, hard keepers become easy keepers, feet get harder, coats get better, horses are all quiet.....

I do feed a lot of grass hay with it, I personally soak my pellets. I have one that eats too fast and tends to choke if they aren't soaked, and I find that they all suck down the supplements better when the pellets are soaked and set for a minute. Most of the horses can eat them without them being soaked, that one horse just has me paranoid about it. If I had a lot of grass, I would feed less hay, but south FL isn't known for its lush green pastures......


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## stacieandtheboys (Jan 6, 2009)

How much do you know to feed as far as the alfalfa pellets go? Also the only ground flax I could find was at TSC and was $40 is that about right?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Look into Buckeye's feed called "safe n easy".

Ther were horses who didn't need grain what-so-ever who were put on that, at the barn I was a working student at. And also horses who got very little grain were given that as an addative tot heir portions...

The BM said that it doesn't make a horse got, and it is great for easy keepers - gives them the vitamins and minerals they need, while feeling like they are getting grained, without the xtra's that graining gives them.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

My horses don't get grain, but they do get a pelleted vit/min supplement, a small amount of pelleted rice bran, and Omega-3 Horseshine.

I prefer the Omega-3 Horseshine to plain flax because it has the appropriate ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6. an overload of either (6 more than 3) is not good.

Omega-3 Horseshine has really gone up in price the last couple years but, you only need to feed a 1/2 cup (household measuring cup) daily. I divide that into two feedings.

Everyone got taken off dry grain and switched to rice bran when the horse in my avatar became Insulin Resistant two years ago. They all only get a token amount - 1-1/2 household measuring cups divided into two feedings.

Even the I-R horse is maintaining his weight on that little amount. The other three don't even need that, but I call it "filler" to mix their supplements in and it makes me feel like I fed them something

Not that it makes any difference, but three of my horses are also Tennessee Walkers, and the fourth is an Arab I rescued 16+ years ago looking like a starving horse poster child. The Arab is now 23, the TWH that is I-R is coming 22 and both do terrific without grain.

Please don't take offense but I learned 11 years ago that sweet feed is the worst possible thing to feed a horse. It is cheap to feed but it's like feeding a gallon of Hi-C and two dozen Hershey bars to a 10 yr old boy. It takes a lot more sweet feed to maintain a horse than even a dry grain-based feed.

The person that got me off sweet feed owned the feed store I bought from and also owned race horses. His very kind words were to "--do my horses a big favor and quit feeding them that stuff-".

He carried sweet feed and sold it, but for some reason he felt safe telling me to get my horses off it and spend more money on a good feed that I wouldn't have to use as much. I actually ended up saving money by feeding less and had healthier and less hyped-up/nervous horses for it


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

aynelson said:


> I have been dying to take my horses off Strategy. Your feeding regime is the very combination that I have thought about. Alfalfa seems like the best thing for horses, but with the pellet form does this mean we don't have to worry about blister beetles? Do you have to soak the alfalfa pellets? Why do feed companies poison our horses with starch and sugar anyway?


No, you don't have to worry about blister beetles. You also do not have to soak the pellets (unless you have a horse prone to choke or who gulps their feed down). Look for AP that is made in a northern state or the West Coast, and does NOT have any molasses. Mine has Alfalfa and Rice Bran on the ingredients list, that's it!

My horses have done so well since getting off grain and feeds. It was hard to switch (I thought my horses HAD to have all those fancy feeds and supplements), but once I saw the difference in my horses and ALL of the horses at the barn I boarded at, I knew I could never go back to traditional horse feeds again... :wink:


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

To prevent choke, feed in ground-level feeders, add just a little water and wait for the pellets to soften. I add Apple Cider Vinegar to mine for the added benefit of less flies! 1/2 cup of liquid is enough to get 3 lbs of pellets to start to soften and break up.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

stacieandtheboys said:


> How much do you know to feed as far as the alfalfa pellets go? Also the only ground flax I could find was at TSC and was $40 is that about right?


I feed 1/2 to 1 scoop, using a 3qt feed scoop. That's about 1.5 to 3 lbs a day of Alfalfa pellets.

$40 for ground flax sounds about right, 20 lb bag? You can get whole flax cheaper if they'll order it for you.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

walkinthewalk said:


> I prefer the Omega-3 Horseshine to plain flax because it has the appropriate ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6. an overload of either (6 more than 3) is not good.


Hay has a good amount of Omega 6 fatty acids, so supplementing for Omega 6 is not really needed. Horseshine is fine, but that's the one part of their mix and marketing ploy that I do not like...


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

MIEventer said:


> Look into Buckeye's feed called "safe n easy".
> 
> Ther were horses who didn't need grain what-so-ever who were put on that, at the barn I was a working student at. And also horses who got very little grain were given that as an addative tot heir portions...
> 
> The BM said that it doesn't make a horse got, and it is great for easy keepers - gives them the vitamins and minerals they need, while feeling like they are getting grained, without the xtra's that graining gives them.


http://www.buckeyenutrition.com/equine/documents/344SafeNEasyPeltag.pdf

For full nutrition, so the horse is getting all of the vitamins they need, you'd have to feed 4.5 to 7 lbs a day for an average sized horse. If you feed less than that, you'd need to add a vitamin supplement to make up for the lack of vitamins... :?:


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## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

I do exactly the opposite of the name of the thread

At least 30% of my horses feed is OATS, and none of them get ' hot ' as a result, oats get bad press normally because of something else in the feed.

Unless your horse has a sugar intolerence, oats are by far one of the best horse feeds you can get.

If you had a conversation with my vet he would state that all you need to feed is - grass , alfalfa , hay and oats. He is completly baffled by people who take their horse of natural feeds and then have to supplement their man made diet because of missing vitamins etc.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

I agree, Oats are a great feed. I can't use them though, not much. My Anglo gets hot and my Appy gets fat on them, lol. I do use plain whole oats some if we're riding and training a lot, for extra energy and just something "different" for them. 

This year we're not doing much riding though, so no oats. We bought a foreclosed house last fall and the pasture and house needs work. It rained too much this past winter and spring, so we're just able to work on the outside now... :-( ugh. Doesn't look like we'll get much riding in until fall! pooh, lol.

Even so, I have to feed a vitamin/min supplement. Our hay is low in many minerals and we don't have alfalfa hay here, only pellets (which are expensive to feed in large quantities), so I still need the supplement.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Mine get a ration balancer to balance their hay and free choice hay or pasture depending on time of year/day ... 

the problem with oats is haey are NOT balanced


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Oats are fine if your grass or timothy hay has the right nutrient profile, and you feed some alfalfa and have good grazing. The only vitamin/requirement that might be missing or low would be Vitamin E. The diet as a whole would be balanced. However, I don't know very many people who have that Utopian set-up here in the USA ;-).


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## aynelson (Jun 13, 2009)

The Alfalfa pellets I have do not have feeding instructions. Lemme clarify: you feed about 1.5lbs for a 1000(ish) lb horse. Is this two times a day? How do you change this throughout the seasons? I am sooo glad to hear there are alternatives to the crap on the market. I wonder if ANY research goes into the long-term aspects of the diets offered by these companies.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

actually there shouldn't be really any directions on it since it depends on HOW you are using it ...


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

aynelson said:


> The Alfalfa pellets I have do not have feeding instructions. Lemme clarify: you feed about 1.5lbs for a 1000(ish) lb horse. Is this two times a day? How do you change this throughout the seasons? I am sooo glad to hear there are alternatives to the crap on the market. I wonder if ANY research goes into the long-term aspects of the diets offered by these companies.


 
the research is showing what the higher NSC diets does it is just getting people to understand that is the problem ...


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## barefoot (Jun 11, 2009)

If they're on grass and getting hay, then there is really no need for grain. Cut out the grain slowly though as to not cause shock to their digestive systems - We all know how sensitive a horse's body can be!


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## minihorse927 (Aug 11, 2008)

I have had good luck with a feed called Tribute Kalm N EZ. It is grain free and all my horses stay calm and easy to handle. It is only 14% starch and my horses get free choice hay/pasture. This is the webpage for it, but for some reasont they have removed the ingredient list from their page. Tribute Horse Feeds | Tribute Kalm 'N EZ Pelleted | a pelleted low-starch feed formulated for all classes of mature horses. I know if you live further from Ohio, it is kind of hard to get ahold of.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

aynelson said:


> The Alfalfa pellets I have do not have feeding instructions. Lemme clarify: you feed about 1.5lbs for a 1000(ish) lb horse. Is this two times a day? How do you change this throughout the seasons? I am sooo glad to hear there are alternatives to the crap on the market. I wonder if ANY research goes into the long-term aspects of the diets offered by these companies.


They're hay pellets, so you can't really over feed them, lol. I feed goodies just once a day. A 3 qt feed scoop will hole about 3-3.5 lbs of Alfalfa Pellets, depending on the pellet. Most idle or easy keeper horses will do fine on 1/2 to 1 scoop a day plus plenty of hay (2-3% of their body weight a day) or good grazing. If the horse is a hard keeper or in heavy training/work, then 1-3 scoops a day is the general range.

Just start with 1 scoop with your vitamin supplement and see how they do. Increase or decrease the amount as needed. Add water if your vitamins are powdered, just enough to dampen the pellets and help the vitamins stick.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

If your horses have 24/7 access to good pasture there is no need to supplement with any other feed. If you ride a lot then you may need to add something like the Alfalfa pellets or Beet pulp etc. I use a mix of both in small scoops to add things like MSM etc. It also keeps the "don't need anything" horses from being cranky when the old horse gets his large ration cuz his teeth are going. 

Basically, I'd take them off the hard feed. If you have feed to use up go ahead and feed them a reduced amount(half ration or less) til you use it up. Then feed a cup or so of Alfalfa pellets, dampened just enough to allow the supplements to stick. See how they do. Some horses on full pasture will get too fat so you may have to take them off for part of the day/night and give them a flake or 2 of hay. Grass can be high in sugar and that can be very harmful to some horses.


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