# Treeless Saddles on wide & short backed Haflinger



## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Just looking for experiences people have had in using treeless saddles on Haflingers. Also interested in the performance you've had if any in competitive trail with your Haflinger. I have one and am considering competing and possibly getting a treeless for him because I have such a hard time fitting a saddle to him due to his wide, but short back. Thanks!


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Welcome to the forum! I can't boast any experience with them on Halflingers, but am _very_ jealous that you own one!!! When I went to see my Morgan before getting her, the lady had me try her out with her treeless saddle, and I've been pining for one ever since! I'm sure other members will have experiences with Halflingers and be ready to help


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Hopefully!! It would be very helpful!


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

I don't have a Haffie, but I have a wide backed, short withered horse and I use a treeless on her.
I LOVE it!!
My only complaint, or challenge is my saddle slips on the downhills.
And, remounting in the woods was difficult too.

Treeless fits wonderful~ mare has no complaints and they're really really comfy!


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

In that case you should use a crupper! That helps!  Good luck! And thank you!


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

Yep, I just started looking into it.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

I don't have a Haffy either but use a treeless (Freemax) on a 16.1hh DWBxID when he's unfit and consequently very fat (his fit width is about 2XW but varies A LOT).

I too have the slipping issue - sideways in my case - and can't mount from the ground without assistance. A non-slip pad would probably help but since the saddle's just a stop-gap I've not bothered.

I once tried to get a Torsion treeless to mark a customer's AQH (very square-shouldered) and failed, even when the horse's back was powdered to make areas with extra pressure more visible. I was impressed - the saddle didn't move in the couple of hours we rode the horse about - but I hated the saddle. The customer loved it though, so that was okay.

I'd see if you can get one on trial before buying to see if it suits both of you


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

The pads on treeless saddles sometimes compress as you ride which for some horses require a girth tightening before remounting. If you learn to mount the Icelandic way you can eventually do so without being virtues allegedly. I haven't had the time to practice enough to see if that's true or not. Here's the website I learned it from: Icelandic Saddle Fitting
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

I have a haffy (or two) but don't like treeless so I use a Wintec Wide GP which fits very well and a Thorowgood cob dressage saddle which also fits well.


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> The pads on treeless saddles sometimes compress as you ride which for some horses require a girth tightening before remounting. If you learn to mount the Icelandic way you can eventually do so without being virtues allegedly. I haven't had the time to practice enough to see if that's true or not. Here's the website I learned it from: Icelandic Saddle Fitting
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's very interesting 

But I could probably still vault on an Icelandic, so the problem wouldn't be that great. Trouble is mine's a little bigger :wink:


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

That's great information for when getting on from the ground is the only option you have. Personally I do not mount from the ground because of the torque it puts on the horse, and the saddle.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

If your saddle is compressing you probably need a new one, or a better one. They should not be compressed or maybe you shouldn't be in a treeless. If the pad is compressing I would say has seen the end of its days. That is supposed to act as your "tree" and protect the horse's spine.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I had a haflinger for 10 years and he is the reason I still have treeless. My treeless is a Rebecca Underwood Soft rider. My husband is having one made now for his draft cross. I always use a breast collar and use a crupper if there are hills.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

What did you pay for those saddles? Do you need to have it made specifically for your horse or do they come in a way that can fit your horse and yourself? I am on a limited fund and have been looking at the Freeform and Black Forest treeless saddles. Do you have any experiences with these type of saddles?


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

subbing!


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Not sure what that means?


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

Hidalgo13 said:


> subbing!


I'm sorry for my ignorance, but what does 'subbing' mean?
I googled it and came up with things relating to submarines and magazine subscriptions.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

I have a feeling it is a word in canadian french! I could be confused, but her location is Quebec so that is my guess!


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Haha no it's not a french word.  When someone on the forum writes that, it means they are subscribing to the thread because they are interested in following it, while having nothing to actually write/add to the conversation.


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## 2horses (Oct 11, 2009)

"Subbing" means they are following this thread. 

I'm also curious about saddle choices for Haflingers. I have a Haflinger and use the Wintec Australian Stock saddle on him with the wide gullet. He seems to be fairly comfortable, but I have to make sure the saddle doesn't ride up on his shoulders. I have thought about a treeless saddle, but I was hesitant because the only falls I have had were on a treeless saddle. I think it gives you a false sense of security because it feels like you are riding in a regular saddle until the horse bucks or spooks, and then it doesn't give you the same stability as a regular saddle. It might not affect stronger riders though.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Treeless saddles allow you to be more in tune with your horse. They bring you closer to the horse's center of gravity and you are also more able to feel his muscles, whether they are tense or not. I can't wait to get my own! I think you deffinately have to have a good seat in order to stick with the bucks!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A good english saddle will do that too.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Well of course a good english saddle will do that too, but I am in the move to treeless. Even an english saddle can make it difficult to ride it out. Believe me I've been there too...


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## Katy and Kaylee (Jan 5, 2013)

I have a Haflinger mare with a back like a spermwhale and decided for flex tree for that reason. But I haven't tried out the saddle yet. 
However, I can pass on the advice of a friend of mine who also mounts Haffies and recommended very warmly to use a breast collar 'cause with those round curves the saddle can more easily slip sideways. She's found herself upside down under the horse once, ahem. She's a saddler so I think her advice should be good!


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Yes even if my Haflinger was not so rotund and flat backed then I would still use a breast collar and possibly a crupper. Just to be safe!


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

pmaehj said:


> What did you pay for those saddles? Do you need to have it made specifically for your horse or do they come in a way that can fit your horse and yourself? I am on a limited fund and have been looking at the Freeform and Black Forest treeless saddles. Do you have any experiences with these type of saddles?


Each Rebecca saddle is made to order. You pick color, style, seat size (she will help you figure out which one is right), even pick style of stirrups. Her saddles come with the pads needed and you tell her if our horse is mutton withered or high withered so she can make you the proper pad. Oh yeah - breast collar, cinch and cantel bag included as well. 

They are $875 and a little extra if you want her to make a crupper to go with plus shipping. You get everything you need and it fits you and your horse - so I think its better deal than most where you have to buy a pricy pad separate. Plus the pad is velcroed on so no slipping and its Y rigging so much more secure. Highly recommend them and she guarantees hardware and all that so if anything breaks just send it in and get it repaired.

Sorry - no experience with the ones you mentioned.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> A good english saddle will do that too.


They do not nearly as much as a treeless saddle. Some treeless saddles allow for a LOT more feel.

------

For those looking for saddle recommendations, I suggest joining the treelessaddles yahoo group. There are members who are so good you can post pics of your horses back and they can make recommendations. There's also quite a few who sell used saddles as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unclearthur (Feb 25, 2012)

IMO treeless saddles are more likely to cause pressure issues mid-back in the long term. It's obviously dependent on the individual horse, rider and usage but a treeless, concentrating the rider's weight in a smaller area, has more potential to cause damage than a correctly fitted treed saddle.

That's why trees were invented in the first place.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

unclearthur said:


> IMO treeless saddles are more likely to cause pressure issues mid-back in the long term. It's obviously dependent on the individual horse, rider and usage but a treeless, concentrating the rider's weight in a smaller area, has more potential to cause damage than a correctly fitted treed saddle.
> 
> That's why trees were invented in the first place.


Totally agree I have seen some terrible damage caused by a treeless saddle.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

If you don't agree with treeless saddles I don't need your information about them. Honestly. I've used both so your opinion that treeless saddles caus more stress points, and tension on their backs really doesn't appeal to me, but thanks anyway.
I have researched both and am a certified equine sports massage therapist...


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

I've heard that treeless saddles work best on wide and round horses as the weight spreads out better on them. Some brands require a special pad to help with weight distributon as well.


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## Katy and Kaylee (Jan 5, 2013)

Really I think that a heavy rider or someone who spends many many hours in the saddle everday or works cattle etc is probably better off with a really good, well fitted traditional saddle. 
But these heavy duty, very structured saddles were after all perfected for knights in armour throwing a horse at a gallop against a line of pikemen!
I think most horsemen nowadays have somewhat less extreme sports in mind.
A reasonably light rider on a well muscled horse is less likely to cause damage in a treeless saddle than in a low-budgety ill fitting traditional one, I think, unless he/she makes jumping-jacks on horseback 24/7! 
That at least is my experience, and MHO.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

With the correct pad and fitted treeless I've seen many horses work just fine, and have very healthy backs, more healthy since they switched to treeless. Plus I know a lot of people who ride 100 miles rides with properly fitted pads and saddles (treeless) and they pass very check after vet check. Yes traditional saddles can fit some horses, and some riders, in some situations, and the same is true for treeless.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Not all treeless are made equal just like not all treed saddles are made equal. There are higher quality treeless that spread weight just as well as a tree but without the pressure points that can form on a treed saddle when the horse is in motion since a tree does not move with a horse. Some endurance riders have found their horses perform much better with a properly fitted and padded treeless then they ever did on even a custom made treed saddle. But a poorly padded or built treeless or one that is not properly fit can cause just as much problems as an ill fitting treed saddle. Fit and quality is still important when it comes to treeless.

Treeless is not for every horse and rider combination and just because a saddle is treeless does not mean it will fit your horse properly. Its just another option in the many out there.


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Exactly!


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## DixieKate (Oct 16, 2012)

I've never used a treeless saddle before, but I leased a haflinger for the past 6 years, and she won a competitive trail (with her owner, not me). Haflingers have such a smooth trot, it's awesome for trails. I accidentally rode her for 8 hours, and we ended up going 25 miles one day. She did great, even at 26 years old. 

I agree with using a breastcollar. I have definitely ended up underneath a haflinger before, because she held her breath through the cinching, even after lunging, and let it all out once we got into a canter. That was an exciting moment...


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

Well hopefully I will be purchasing a Bandos Treeless by Freeform. I will use a breat collar and a crupper. He has foundered before so I will have to be careful, but he's never walked a lame step in his life before or after that incident so I don't doubt he has the agility and stamina to endure the miles. I need to get myself in shape!


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## HappyHoofPrints (Jan 11, 2013)

Thank you for this thread. I, too, am looking into treeless saddles for my round, flat short backed little Arab mare to ride long distance. Old Dominion Rides website encourages treeless for even the longer (100 milers) and multi-day events. Good luck and Happy Riding this New Year!


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## pmaehj (Jan 10, 2013)

I've got a girlfriend who's been using treeless on eaech of her arabs because of the short back, but well sprung ribs.


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

HappyHoofPrints said:


> Thank you for this thread. I, too, am looking into treeless saddles for my round, flat short backed little Arab mare to ride long distance. Old Dominion Rides website encourages treeless for even the longer (100 milers) and multi-day events. Good luck and Happy Riding this New Year!


I think treeless are great for long rides. 
Every saddle has brought me pain from a broken leg 20yrs ago (from a horse. Thanks Duke!), and in my treeless, I've never been in pain. ever.
I can ride 6-8 hours before I remember that I'm in a saddle and it doesn't hurt!
I'm curious what an Old Dominion Ride is..I'm going to google it.


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## Blossom in Srping (Jun 28, 2013)

I am aware this is an old thread, but was wondering if you ever got your treeless saddle? If so, can you tell us about how you like or dislike it?

I ordered from Black Forest and mine should be here on Friday. Hopefully my hafie and I will like it.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Be sure to ride with a long stirrup or the weight of your legs can cause the horse to get a sore back. There is no tree to distribute the weight.


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## Blossom in Srping (Jun 28, 2013)

I do not know the horse lingo, could you tell me what long stirrup means? Thank you.


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## HappyHoofPrints (Jan 11, 2013)

Been out of here for a while. Apologize. I have been using my vintage Sharon Saare endurance saddle with Mariah so far. It is wide and seems to fit but I have not put any miles on her yet. I am riding bitless and shoeless and want to go treeless as well. How is everyone doing?
Ride Happy!


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## HappyHoofPrints (Jan 11, 2013)

The Old Dominion endurance ride is in Virginia. Been around for a while. Very tough from what I hear. The Tevis is old ride in the west. I don't aspire to canyon-mountains but would be interested in the Dominion. There is also the Biltmore in North Carolina. Also very tough mountains...I am a flat lander and rolling hills so either would take some getting used to for me and horses.


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