# Bay horse in winter...



## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

LOL!
I've also been super confused after the recent threads about bay horses actually being brown...
But, I don't have a bay/brown horse, so I'm just going to sub, and hope it gets clearer for me too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

here ya go!


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

My horse get's brown when it's winter, when she she sheds out, she turns to cherry bay
Also she has random white hairs, they disappear in the winter


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## Randella (Dec 13, 2011)

First three pictures are my boy in the winter/early spring, and the last two are the same horse in the late spring/summer.

He is considered "Bay". He has black legs, and a white star. It's funny how he changes so much in appearance.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Randella, your horse is brown.


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## Randella (Dec 13, 2011)

Poseidon said:


> Randella, your horse is brown.


On his papers it says bay.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Registries are notoriously wrong. My BOs just sold a "Blue roan" according to the AQHA. She was the definition of brown. There is also another member who has a mare registered as bay...and is most definitely black.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Randella said:


> On his papers it says bay.


Out of curiosity, what registry body is he registered with?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Most registries don't accept "brown" as a color, they classify them as bay. My TB mare is brown but registered as a dark bay.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> Most registries don't accept "brown" as a color, they classify them as bay.


why is that?
how could a brown horse be a bay? A brown horse has no black points, and the mane and tail are also brown, correct?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Lexiie said:


> why is that?
> how could a brown horse be a bay? A brown horse has no black points, and the mane and tail are also brown, correct?


No. Not correct. Brown horses DO have black legs and black manes/tails. It's part of what makes that colour. They can be distinguished from the normal, run of the mill bay by the way their "soft points (flank, elbow, muzzle, eye, inner legs) are a lighter shade than the rest of their body.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Lexiee, the horse in your avatar is brown also. They are extremely similar colors, caused by mutations of the same gene, hence why they are confused often. Brown was just recently isolated and determined to be its own color, which is why there is still so much confusion.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

but how are they brown?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

It's just a name. Like buckskin and palomino and bay.

Brown is black + At (one form of agouti)

Bay is black + A (A different form of agouti)


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Lexiie said:


> but how are they brown?


Because they aren't "classic" bay, they are something different. It's the name that the geneticist who isolated the gene decided to give to the colour. However, the term "brown" has been around for a long time, being used to describe a "bay" horse with lighter soft points. It is only in the last 10 to 15 years that it has gone out of fashion.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

ohhhh!! so like her nose and behind her legs, belly etc
is lighter than the rest of her? I get it!
I don't know any real bays then D: poo! hahah

Can I call her a bay anyway? xD


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Lexiie said:


> Can I call her a bay anyway? xD


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Please, for the love of genetics noooo!!! ****!


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I just looked at lots of my pictures, and only her nose is lighter. She's still classified as brown right?


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! Please, for the love of genetics noooo!!! ****!


pshhh, alright fiiiiine
In my head is it okay?
or what about people who say "what color is she" and have no interest in horses?!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Lexiie said:


> pshhh, alright fiiiiine
> In my head is it okay?
> or what about people who say "what color is she" and have no interest in horses?!


Just not where I can hear. Then go for it lol.

*sits in corner rocking*


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

yes! 
My instructor's gonna get so mad when I tell her her horse isn't a bay.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Bubba is a little difficult to distinguish in the summer whether he is bay or brown, but he screams brown in his winter fuzzies. During the summer, his "soft points" are more of a mealy color rather than a lighter brown which make it more difficult to tell. 

Here he is about a week ago:









Here he is last winter in his woolies:


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

Does ANYBODY have a picture of an actually genetically bay horse in it's winter fuzzies? All the pictures on this thread so far are browns


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'll see if I can dig up any of my bay Missouri Fox Trotter (RIP) and scan them in.


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## Randella (Dec 13, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> Out of curiosity, what registry body is he registered with?


He's registered with CTHS (Canadian Thoroughbred Society).


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Not my horse. What do you think of this one? I'm on my phone, but to me it looks pretty uniform in color without the lighter points in the usual places.


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

It's looks like less of a brown than the others. On my laptop, I had a picture of a typical brown arabian in winter coat, and it showed a great example of the lighter soft spots, but I'm on a work computer :/ 

I would call that horse a bay. Maybe a second opinion would help.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Lexiie said:


> pshhh, alright fiiiiine
> In my head is it okay?
> or what about people who say "what color is she" and have no interest in horses?!


:lol: Brown is probably less confusing for people who have no interest in horses. Anytime I describe a horse as bay to a non-horsey person I then have to explain what bay is...


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

My girl is so pretty in the winter :3 She turns red! She is a true bay. I only have blankie pics though 
more in a bit...


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

Here are some pictures I dug up in my computer- not mine, I know, but to my knowledge they are all indeed not brown. Maybe we can discuss and determine if this is true.

1) Apparently bay horse romping through the snow, some Spanish breed of some sort. 

2) Bay dun gelding, in his winter woolies. 

3) I know it's not winter, but here's a bay arab.


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

my 15 year old QH gelding, is bay with black legs, and around his muzzle and ears, plus a black mane and tail. in winter his face gets dark and then lightens in summerfirst is winter he gets really dark. then spring he gets dapples. summer hes really pretty bay. the horse in front and back is my moms TB/Clyd that was a dark bay. 
































the first picture was after my moms horse coliced and passed so thats why hes very underweight and with a dull coat.. :/


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

The nearest horse in the last picture is a brown, and I *think* your horse is too, especially in the first picture.


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

Alright, let me take a stab at this! Here is the horse I was leasing, Byron. I THINK he is a bay, because he STAYS bay in the winter. BUT he is slightly mealy in the winter ONLY. His skin is black and as soon as he sheds his winter fuzzies his muzzle is black again. It doesn't look like winter in this photo, but it as taken Dec 28th. Just no snow.


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

Does anyone have pictures of a bay horse(s) that they know 100% is a true bay?


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

TexanFreedom said:


> Does anyone have pictures of a bay horse(s) that they know 100% is a true bay?


Probably not, most people wont bother to test a horse that has an easy coat color. Even though this is obviously more complicated than we thought.

Still waiting to see what the experts think of Byron. I really do think he is a bay!


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## TexanFreedom (Apr 2, 2012)

I would've tried to find it myself, but you can't find a picture or a webpage that says 'this horse is a gene-tested true bay' anywhere. I even reied looking through my horse books, but they were written in the early 90's, so, as I expected, they were NO help on any form of genetics, except on how to prepare and cover a mare...


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## lives2hope (Jul 12, 2012)

I could post pictures of my bay tobiano. I did not have her genetically tested but her old vet was anal about labeling everything by it's correct color. I made the mistake of saying she was a tri-colored pinto in his hearing. The explanation of why she was not and was in fact a bay tobiano still has me scratching my head. I can however post pictures if they would help and not confuse the issue further.


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

lives2hope said:


> I could post pictures of my bay tobiano. I did not have her genetically tested but her old vet was anal about labeling everything by it's correct color. I made the mistake of saying she was a tri-colored pinto in his hearing. The explanation of why she was not and was in fact a bay tobiano still has me scratching my head. I can however post pictures if they would help and not confuse the issue further.


 
Your horse is not tri-colored because Bay is one color and white is one color. It's very common for people to use the word to describe bay pinto because they see black + brown + white, but the black and brown is really bay.


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## lives2hope (Jul 12, 2012)

Well I thought she was tri-colored because she has black markings outside of her points but as I said I was corrected rather firmly by my vet.


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

To be completely honest... I am really starting to doubt a lot of this bay/brown questions. I think most horses show a bit of softening or colour around the muzzle in their winter coat... I dont have a bay horse, but every one I can think of does. My chestnut horse does, even. I don't think a little lightening of the muzzle in a winter coat alone a brown horse makes. Does anyone agree with me at all? There has to be more than that, otherwise every horse I know is brown, and bay is rare. Which I cannot accept.


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

lives2hope said:


> Well I thought she was tri-colored because she has black markings outside of her points but as I said I was corrected rather firmly by my vet.


 
Really?? I'd love to see pictures of her black marks outside of her points! That sounds really interesting!


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