# Critique 9 year old mare



## Horsegears (May 31, 2010)

Longer striding enduro/dressage type.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

sorry??


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

She looks pretty good from what I can see... definitely a lean type build. I personally would like to see more of a rump on her and a neck that maybe tied in a little higher with a bit more substance to it? 

Then again, I like my horses to have big engines... so I may be a little biased for something of more "substance" ^_^

I love her big doe eyes though... she seems very sweet.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I loove a big bum personally as well if i breed her it would prob be to a big irish hunter or maybe thouroughbred im not sure yet!

she is a lovely mare who is a pleasure to work with and throws her hand at everything


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## Horsegears (May 31, 2010)

............................................


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

As much as I like her head, neck, shoulder and front, and bone, I really do not like her back end or her coupling at all. She is long backed and weak backed and I do not like the angles in her hind legs. 

I would be VERY careful breeding her.. look at stallion PROGENY (in addition to looking at the stallion) to see if a stallion with a shorter coupling and better back end throws those traits in his offspring. 

I probably would not breed her due her poor hind quarter conformation as presented in these images.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I agree fully her hind-end is not ideal however i like her long back as a potential to carry easier.

Ideally i would go for a very powerful hind-end in my stallion with the potential to create a better eventer.
However i find her pros do outweigh her cons that is probably my biased opinon


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

My first thoughts mirror Elana. But it seems you see what we see and are planning for such. Good luck . You may get a really perfect baby. Or, you'll get a baby that you love just as much as a perfect baby.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I have put some thought into it and i know i could sell the foal should it not work out.
I am fairly sure i know her weak points and can counteract them wiht the right stally


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## Xela (Jan 26, 2011)

I agree about the longer back. GORGEOUS though, and she looks like a lovely mare.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Just be sure to look at the progeny of a stallion you choose to help dertermine phenotypical traits. If you can see the mares too, that will help too. This way you can find something that will improve your odds of getting a shorter coupled and better hind legged offspring. 

There are a TON of stallions out there. The trick is to find a proven stallion that has progeny. 

Good luck. When you pick one you can repost pictures of your mare, the stallion, progeny and (if you can find them) mares that the progeny came from. The hunt is as much fun in this as the find.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Has your mare been bred in the past? I know that the older the mares get to be as maidens, the more difficult and risky the whole process can become.

As hard as it is, that is also that you should be able to take into consideration; would you be able to forgive yourself if something did happen to the mare and/or foal and one of them passed away? Like you, I really would like to breed my perfect mare... but I cringe when it comes to really tough questions like these.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

No she has never bred before which is a thought n my mind however there seems no reason why she should not carry ok according to the vet.
Its questions like that which doubt me however i feel that the chances are weighing more in favour of breeding her and hoping to god it all goes well!!
We have a good setup for foaling and have had 4foals born her before so we do have cameras etc set up.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

FWIW and having done a good bit of this, I can tell you that the most dangerous thing a large animal can do is give birth. IF an animal is going to have problems that could cause death, foaling and calving is up there at the top. 

That being said, horses typically foal with normal presentations and fewer complications per 100 head than high producing dairy cattle. Some breeds are far more prone to foaling issues than others, such as miniature horses. Warmbloods are not ones that have more than the average number of problems in foaling. 

Nothing you do is without risk. Riding in a 3 day event is very risky. Flat track racing is very risky. Steeplechase even more so. 

Just keep things in perspective and know that MOST horses do not have complications at foaling. If you are on top of things you further reduce risk. If you have a vet you can call at any time you reduce the risk even further. 

Just sayin'


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Split her in half, and I like her front half. I am not a huge fan of her back end; she is wasp waisted and has a fairly weak hindquarter. She's got a nice shoulder and her neck ties in nicely top and bottom.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

ye there is a 24 hour vet on standby at all clinics during breeding season and i would be closely working with the vet to ensure everything goes to plan.

yeher hindend isnt the nicest so im thinking a nice big boned irish hunter to give her some substaence and hopefully givve the foal longevity to event and hunt with added bone


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I like this mares front end more so than her back end. None of her I would really encourage breeding, she has nothing "exceptional" to offer to pass along. I like where her neck sits and her throat latch, her head is nice enough and her shoulder has a good slope to it too. Her back is long and weak and not going to "help" her carry weight as you suggested. Her hind quarters are small and weak also, she has a very short croup. Her weight fluctuates a lot in the photos, I would suggest keeping her more like the first riding photo. She is thin in a number of pictures.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

MaggiStar said:


> I have put some thought into it and i know i could sell the foal should it not work out.
> I am fairly sure i know her weak points and can counteract them wiht the right stally


Wow... really such confidence from some one that has done no breeding (at least that is my understanding).....with the horse economy the way it is right now it is cheaper and you will have better luck getting what you want if you purchase a foal at weanling..........I personally don't think she is breeding material. There are no guarantees regardless of what stallion you pick.

And as a one time breeder having complications with both mare and foal at birth....I would not recommend it to the inexperienced and for those of you who do not have deep pockets.....the first 24 hours cost me a bundle.

I consider myself lucky as I did end up with a great filly with good conformation and nice movement but my mare was fairly correct in her conformation and had won everything in the hunter ring up to 3' in our area.

Super Nova


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Im not from America so our economy is nowhere near yours horses are selling decently enough here and i am not looking at breeding for anohter season maybe 2 depending on stallion quality.
We have bred before i stated that so we have all the night cameras extra extra large breeding sheds and 24 hour vets on standby so not sure where you are getting your information from. Its HER first time breeding, I like a longer back in a maiden after dealing with short backed ponies and horse i find they carry easier when they are longer.

Her weight goes down in competition season die to the fact that she only picks at her hard feed as she is in a full 25acre pasture 24-7 however she is in good health throughout the season,
The pictures where she is larger are when she gets her 2month holiday every year she piles the pounds on. she is a naturally small weight carrying horse she has never been "fat" per say the vet has looked at her nad her feeding and said everything is in the right order basically.


I am essentially breeding for an eventer myself and not planning on selling the foal though i know situations change I am sure I know of at least 5families who would definitely buy from her as an exceptional hunter and eventer.
The stallion I currently have in mind is 16.2hh 10 year old Irish sport horse out of Clover hill his stud fee is highly reasonable i am also looking at a lux z off spring


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

MaggiStar said:


> Im not from America so our economy is nowhere near yours horses are selling decently enough here and i am not looking at breeding for anohter season maybe 2 depending on stallion quality.
> We have bred before i stated that so we have all the night cameras extra extra large breeding sheds and 24 hour vets on standby so not sure where you are getting your information from. *Its HER first time breeding, I like a longer back in a maiden after dealing with short backed ponies and horse i find they carry easier when they are longer.*


First, I'm not sure what a long back has to do with your mare's being a maiden... and secondly, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'carry easier' than a short backed horse. Do you mean that they are supposed to carry a foal better if they have a long back? Or carry their rider better?

To my understanding, it is fairly common knowledge that a shorter coupled horse with a shorter back has more strength and mobility throughout their back. They are better able to reach under themselves with their haunches and round out. 

I don't feel that a long back can ever really be considered a bonus in a horse and I don't think it can be framed that way. None of this is meant personally of course. My warmblood mare has a long back and weedy haunches sort of like yours, so I deal with the same sorts of things... though she isn't the one that I would ever choose to breed if given the chance.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

When breeding a maiden we prefer longer backs as it is easier to reposition a foal. However her back is not overly long like is being said it is a touch longer then favourable


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

When I made my assessment that MOST horses foal normally it is from working for three seasons as a front line foaling person after 20 years calving dairy cows on a dairy farm. The number of dystocias per 100 head of dairy cows was greater (IME) than per 100 head of Thoroughbreds. 

I have to say.. in a dystocia.. the length of the horse's back was far less important than the length and strength of the arm attached to the person repositioning the foal!

As I said originally this is not a mare I personaly would breed. That being said, this is YOUR horse, YOUR risk and YOUR decision. She is not so awfully bad.. have seen many much much worse not only bred, but retained as stallions!! 

What country are you located in? Sounds like the UK??? Ireland?


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Ireland ye.
I none of my comments were directed at you.
If i decide to breed her it will not be a headlong rush into it at least another year to get the perfect stallion and ensure everything is set up to give her the best chance


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I have seen some very very nice Irish Thoroughbreds running flats over here. I have heard that the best 'chasers in the world come from Ireland (tho I am sure those from the UK would argue it). 

Ireland is one of my someday travel destinations. And Scotland.... Highlands to see the sheep dogs work. 

I do like your mare's front end.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I'd really like to go to Ireland someday too... as off topic as it is. ^_^ Honestly I'm a little afraid of the animosity that might be felt towards me as the "stupid American" though. I've heard that there's plenty of people who don't really like our type.

Anyhow, I'm glad that you're really thinking it through before breeding your mare MaggiStar... I'm sure everything will turn out for the best in the end. And I do love those big soft eyes she has.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

You definitely cant beat Irish chasers they are amazing to watch!
Also actial conemmara bred Conemmaras are just so much better then when they are bred else where in the world.
Big loud brass Americans are not to liked however Ireland is very welcoming especially outside Dublin in Wicklow, Galway Cork Donegal etc they are much more welcoming to tourists


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't fit into the loud/brass stereotype of Americans... more so the naive and very shy, at least when it comes to travelling abroad. I don't like to be disliked, so I usually do what I can to be polite and unobtrusive.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

The you will get along just fine!
You definitely should go for a visit one day dont expect any sun and you should be fine!! if you come id reccomend the first Wednesday in JUne as that is when state exams start and you can guarantee nice weather when all exams begin


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## Dream (Jan 23, 2011)

Just as a side note and not horse related whatsoever, but my best friend spent a semester in Ireland and loved it, and he got along with everyone. So I'm sure they're pretty welcoming of Americans.  It's also on my to-visit list, with Scotland...I love me a Scottish accent!


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