# Pinning ears and swishing tail



## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

My horse has always done this some, but it seems like lately he's been doing it more-
Whenever I come around him, he pins his ears and swishes his tail. When I'm putting his blanket on, he acts like he wants to bite, but never does. When I'm tacking him up, he pins ears/swishes tail. Even if I'm just around him, doing nothing to him, he looks grouchy. Granted, he CAN be very sweet, and otherwise he is very respectful-in the round pen and under saddle. It just seems to happen when I'm around him on the ground doing various things. Could it be pain? Disrespect? Just his personality? 
If there's something I can do about this, let me know. I'm getting tired of him always looking so mean to me. And whenever it goes too far and I scold him, he usually gets madder.
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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Some horses are just cranky but there is usually an explanation. If he is getting worse I'd be concerned.

First thought is ulcers, or pain somewhere. I would have a vet check him out. What is his lifestyle and feed like?

For a horse that is being moody I try not to nitpick. Ignore the behavior, punish it when it crosses the line, go immediately back to ignoring. Ignoring also works since it shows him you aren't impressed by him carrying on. While I might punish another horse for cranky behavior, if that is the normal I will ignore it - as long as it is not a danger or interfering with me. (Ex- grooming sensitive horse, making a point to be gentle, horse pins ears-ignore, horse swings head-smack!, instantly go back to ignoring) If you nitpick over ever time the horse pins its ears they will get more and more annoyed with you. Correcting can be tricky... my own horse is a good example. If you back down to him he will run all over you, but if you stand up to him he will get aggressive. With him you need a firm, but fair hand and mutual respect (a good rule with any horse but very important in this situation).

So for "just his personality" or if he is in pain, make sure to correct him but I would do what I said above. He very well could be being disrespectful though and escalating due to you not catching little things. Does he try to push you out of his space? If he wants to be grumpy in his own space that's fine, but do NOT let him try to dominate you. YOU are in charge and the leader at all times. What do you scold him for? Try to stop him BEFORE it goes too far. So make sure you are in charge and he is being submissive to you. If you feel that is the case I would get a vet out.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Could you maybe get a video of the two of you interacting? Sometimes it's easier for someone outside the picture to spot things.


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

Yogiwick said:


> Could you maybe get a video of the two of you interacting? Sometimes it's easier for someone outside the picture to spot things.


I've thought about doing this. I think I will.
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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

He does not try to invade my space. Ever. 
He is turned out 24/7.
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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it could totally be pain. that is always the first thing to consider. if he is defensive about being tacked, think exactly when that happens; when you put the saddle on? when you reach for the cinch/girth? pull it up? does he dislike being touched anywhere in particular? is he this way for anyone else? if you make him move a bit, like swish him forward a bit with the leadline, or whatever, just to get him to focus on moving his feet for a sec and let go of his negative attitude, will his ears go forward again?

have you ever had anyone knowledgeable check his saddle fit? sometimes a saddle problem will not show up for a long time, especially if the hrose is very stoic and puts up with something that hurts him , until he can do it no more.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Number one thing I have seen with a disrespectful horse like you have described is the cranky and then when not handled properly "mad" like you said, then pushing into space. If you are so definite he is not pushing into your space I don't think he's trying to dominate you (could still be an issue but I don't think it's what is going on here). It could very well be his personality but the fact that it is changing while he is still being respectful, and nothing else has changed, tells me it's something physical. I know several very sweet but "cranky" horses and I can assure you, you can tell when the horse is "cranky" as opposed to "threatening".

If it were my horse my next step would be the vet. I suppose you could try ulcer guard or something before. If it was pain I would expect him to be worse when being worked, but not necessarily. If he starts getting cranky while being worked I would definitely not work him until a vet check up. Like tinylily said see if you can pinpoint anything.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

It could definitely be pain. My first guess would be ulcers and/or back pain. 

It's better to know that just simply guess. Have him checked by an equine lameness vet and chiropractor. If he checks out fine, then GREAT! Then you know it is behavioral and not pain, and can work from there. But if it is pain, fixing the pain may fix the behavior (unless it is been very long standing, it may be habit even when the pain is fixed). 

I'd feel back "punishing" a horse for their actions when they were simply trying to tell me that something hurts.


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

When I say he doesn't invade my space, he never tries to attack me, and he always keeps a distance when I'm leading him or working around him.
I would be very interested to see what a chiropractor would say. I just have to find someone.
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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

Pain seems likely but it happens a lot of the time, like its his attitude. Like I said, he does it sometimes if I'm just standing next to him.
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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm looking for chiropractors in my area; would the list of AVCA certified doctors be a good place to start?


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## HeroMyOttb (Dec 28, 2009)

I would say pain or behavioral. Get the pain checked off first and go from there.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

howrsegirl123 said:


> I'm looking for chiropractors in my area; would the list of AVCA certified doctors be a good place to start?


Yes and no. I personally very much really on word of mouth from people I know and trust. I ask around to who is good and who to avoid. In my area, the BEST chiropractor is about 3 hours away from me. But you never hear a bad word about the guy and his results speak for themselves. 

There a couple "decent" ones much closer. 

It's kind of a judgement call on your part for how far you will travel. 

Do you have a vet you routinely use? I would ask the vet for their opinion.


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

I asked on FB and got 2 good recommendations.
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## crazeepony (Dec 8, 2013)

I have a friend who is an animal communicator- she is very good. I don't know if you believe in such things but I can give you her number which may help you find out what this horse is trying to tell you. Could be pain or any number of things.


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## rideverystride (Jul 19, 2013)

If he truly respects you, then I'd say it's a pain thing. Has he always done this, or has it just recently started?


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

If it was pain, wouldn't it be odd that he behaves this way when she is just standing next to him?

Interesting thread! Subbing.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

no. it would not necessarily be odd. If the pain is a long term thing that is slowly getting worse, he will associate her with pain, and start anticipating it when she is near and becoming defensive. such behavior can become habitual and continue even after the source of the pain is removed.


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm going to get a chiropractor out to take a look at him. Anxious to see if anything's wrong.
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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

Besides pain, it almost seems to me like it's disrespect, like he does not want me in his space. However, he is very respectful under saddle and while lunging. It stumps me :/
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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

Another thing-
I can't say I recall him behaving like this when I went to look at him to buy at his last home. He was in cross ties and I waked all around him and touched him all over. There may have been a tad amount of grumpiness, but nothing like it is now.
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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> no. it would not necessarily be odd. If the pain is a long term thing that is slowly getting worse, he will associate her with pain, and start anticipating it when she is near and becoming defensive. such behavior can become habitual and continue even after the source of the pain is removed.


Pain can definitely make the horse act cranky and affect their overall demeanor too.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Just an example for behavior- obviously there are more subtle ways to be disrespectful other than attacking you!

We have a very grumpy school horse. It is his personality plus the fact that he hates lessons (currently for sale). I had a 13yo girl getting him ready for the first time. A lot of the children are afraid of this horse until they actually work with him and realize he's just cranky and nothing else. He has a bad rap. He is also smart and a bully and will try to intimidate you if it works. I had a lot of children in the hall, and noticed he was getting worse and worse. He would pin his ears and "go at" her , with all his body language, (on the cross ties) and she would quickly jump back (normal, but a NO with horses!) and he would quickly _step into the place she jumped back from_ and do it again. I finally went over gave him a good smack, and did it every time he looked at her and he stopped and I explained to her that the horse had her number, and while she needed to ignore whatever face he was making if he moved into her space (even just turned his head) she was to immediately get after him and NOT back down. I was helping her with the saddle and he swung his head (normal with the saddle) and I _without moving_ smacked his neck and he went back to good. I explained where I was standing he couldn't reach me anyways and that he really wasn't a mean horse, just a bully, and only if you let him be. By the time we were done (and for untacking) she was doing absolutely great with him. He was quiet and respectful and except for "grumpy moments" napping on the cross ties with his ears relaxed.

Now I know this horse well and while he will nip and make faces if you are careful you can stop the nipping and can DEFINITELY prevent it from getting worse, I have never seen the horse do that, she just jumped back and he said "oh a victim, how fun!". With the right behavior the horse stopped and was back to normal and obedient (and both the girl and the horse were happy). It was interesting to watch the interaction. (No, it's not my horse)

Do you see any similarities? The tiniest movements into your space can be disrespectful, *accidently* bumping you can be disrespectful (if he really cared he'd be paying a lot of attention to you), just tiny things. Making faces *at you* as opposed to making faces. I am still leaning towards a physical thing, but you seemed a little iffy on "disrespecting" so hopefully this post helped!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I would call a vet before a chiro, first step is to make sure he's healthy.


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