# There;s something about me that really ****es off horses



## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi, I fell off a horse today. The school's sweetest horse who apparently has never thrown a tantrum with anyone, rebelled against me today. I have been riding her every week for almost two months with no issue. I even applied what I learnt about easing off the calf pressure at another place and felt I was riding her better - the instructor said my position improved. But today the horse kept refusing to go the way I wanted. She kept cutting corners and turning inward when I wanted her to stay close to the fence. She started this two mins into the lesson. She had never been like this. Whenever I wanted her to turn left, she would go right. This is despite my pulling on the outside rein so she wouldn't turn inwards and take off for the opposite direction. When we started to canter, I tried to make her turn right she but she took off in the opposite direction and wouldn't stop. No matter how hard I pulled. I finally fell off. When the instructor made me get up her and ride again, she showed me reluctance again at the first chance. What's going on? There are really no horses left for me to ride. This is a horse that children ride! And according to the instructor, has never misbehaved with anyone.. So why are they bullying me to such an extent?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Video. That isn't the answer you want, but it is very hard to analyze a problem sight unseen. Even some still pictures would help.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I will not tell you to give up. I will not tell you to not go ride rental horses nose to tail for some time until you feel you are past this block.

And like bsms said, video would help.

However, I have met two people who had things go wrong repeatedly. 

One kid always had horses lay down with him. Always. I put him on a wonderful old Dobbin of a gelding and the horse laid down! I put him on one of mine. A prince of a horse. I ponied my horse. He laid down. No lie. I still can't believe it.

The other kid, a teen girl, always had horses rear with her. Sull up and rear. Same routine. Tried to put her on something great. It reared. My boss put her on his kids' horse. That horse kept trying to pop up. Boss weighed too much for her to get very high. He really hung on.

Anyway, my point is that I've seen inexplicable things. Though it is so rare, I encourage you to try somewhere else, something else to get to ride.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is the fault of your instructor. you should not even be cantering the hrose if you are having trouble with her pulling away from your rein. if it's bad at the walk or trot, it will be double bad at the canter. your instructor should have known that and helped you deal with this before allowing/making you cnater. everything I have seen you post about your lessons and the horses you are being given to ride, and the instruction sounds like you have never had the benefit of GOOD instruction. I feel for you, becuase I know your choices are limited. But, , is it possible for you to find a person that you like and respect, who perhaps has their own quiet horse, who could help you one on one? 
If you love riding so much that you are willing to hang in there , past being rubbed off and falling off and all the other issues, then you deserve a better teacher than you've got!


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

I'd also guess bad riding due to bad instructions.
You do something little wrong. Horse shows reaction you don't understand and try to counteract, probably not correctly, either. Horse gets more confused. Maybe you get frustrated, give false signals with more force. Horse starts to get ****ed. Horse bolts. You pull as hard as you can. Horse shuts you out completely and runs till you drop.
I wouldn't take it personal, I'm quite sure it has nothing to do with you, just your riding. Or do horses nip and kick and run away from you on the ground, as well?


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

When I started learning to ride, there was no horse that would go slow for me. All would rush, and, when cantering came into game, all would canter or gallop out of control - even the slowest, calmest dobbins that others could not even force to trot - and most of them tried changing directions suddenly, ignoring all my cues! It took me showing this problem to a very professional trainer, who saw that my hips were misaligned and each time I cantered or even just plodded around, my weaker hip would dig deep into the horses' back in a diagonal line, causing them discomfort and urging them to go, go, go. When I corrected that, this problem disappeared. 

What I'm trying to say - have you checked your own body with the help of a professional? Maybe you need a chiro, or some other kind of physical therapy? However, it would really help if you posted a video or at least some pictures. I didn't see or feel my own problem until it was pointed out to me, as I was so used to the misalignment of my own body.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I can't help but wonder if you are putting more weight in one stirrup which causes the saddle to dig in on one side. If you are, it gets worse at the trot and even worse at the canter. This is a common problem and it seems only instructors interested in dressage correct this. As you ride away at the walk from someone watching, your shoulder and hips should line up like this "I" . When a rider allows a hip to collapse the riding position looks more like this ">". As the hip comes up the rider drops the shoulder to compensate. The right handed usually collapses the right side. This can result in losing the right stirrup from time to time or feeling it should be shortened.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

I've been having trouble with my leased horse bending to the inside. She consistently pointed her nose to the right, or to the outside of a circle. I tried to correct with legs or reins, to no avail. Mind you, this horse is also highly reactive and very spooky, so I kinda figured she was always watching the hedges and Next Thing Around the Bend. This past weekend, two hours into a trail ride, I realized I was leading with my left hip. My right hip was slung back slightly. I began consciously correcting my seat, and the persistent bend virtually vanished. the point? Whatever you are doing could be something physically minor to you, but something that screams orders at your horse.


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> this is the fault of your instructor. you should not even be cantering the hrose if you are having trouble with her pulling away from your rein. if it's bad at the walk or trot, it will be double bad at the canter. your instructor should have known that and helped you deal with this before allowing/making you cnater. everything I have seen you post about your lessons and the horses you are being given to ride, and the instruction sounds like you have never had the benefit of GOOD instruction. I feel for you, becuase I know your choices are limited. But, , is it possible for you to find a person that you like and respect, who perhaps has their own quiet horse, who could help you one on one?
> If you love riding so much that you are willing to hang in there , past being rubbed off and falling off and all the other issues, then you deserve a better teacher than you've got!


^^ THIS! Absolutely!^^ Mavis, you really shouldn't be cantering until you figure out why you're consistently being thrown!

Second, Saddlebag mentioned your posture. Do you have scoliosis (curvature of the spine) that would affect the distribution of your weight? I do, and it affects how my horse tracks to the left. (She kind of runs crooked -- butt to the wall, face to the inside -- when we track left, but it's not her fault at all. She's responding to my seat, which feels balanced to me, but obviously not to her.) I can't imagine that this would make a well-trained lesson horse throw you, though.

Are you sure that you're being thrown? Or are you falling off?

I agree that it would be helpful to see a video; but moreover, in my humble opinion -- with a nod to the much more experienced among us -- you might benefit from riding in a Western saddle for a while, just til we figure out what's going on with your form.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi, I have cantered on this horse for the past two months with no issue. In fact, she has never shown such disobedience till today when she did it two minutes into the lesson. She refused to follow the other horse in front of her, and would keep cutting the circle smaller. I have ridden her this way before and she was fine. I had ridden her on her own, without following any horse before. and she was fine. She cantered large on an arena beautifully and we were a great team.

But today, was really something else. She showed refusal early in the lesson, i directed her with my reins. She protested by going the other way and pulled very hard. I could feel early on that today was different. The more we went on, the more i tried to educate her, the angrier I could feel she was becoming. So by the time, the instructor shouted to whip her, which I didn't even have to.. she was already picking up speed very quickly on her own. When he shouted canter, she just took off like a bullet..I pulled right rein to stay on the right rein, she stubbornly refused and darted across the arena, going very fast. I don't know if she deliberately wanted to throw me off. but she definitely didn't want me to continue telling her what to do. Everything I told her to do, she contradicted me. When I had to get back on her after the fall, i tried to trot her.. and she again tried shied away from the direction I wanted.. with such determination I decided I had enough (Falls) for the day. 

This is a pony that children have ridden with no problems. Why do I always set off a horse that is supposedly placid and extremely safe? 

On the ground, horses don't seem to have an issue with me. On trail rides<< i ride ok too. It's only the arena.. 

 

I don't even know if my riding school has any good horses left for me to ride. I just set even the most calm ones off.. SOB 

My neck hurts a lot from the fall, and I even knocked my head as my helmet was loose..

Re unbalanced body, yes.. i know I have a heavier right side. but then the horse was refusing me for both directions.. even the right rein. And btw, this is not the first time a horse refuses to go the direction I want. Steering a horse shouldn't require such deliberate and strong hand aides. When the instructor has to tell me to pull harder and the horse ignores me, something is seriously wrong.


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## thetempest89 (Aug 18, 2013)

Sometimes once you become more experienced the horses sense that. They might test that a little, they behave for school kids. But you know what you're doing and you're asking more and more of them.

But I gotta say that's a pretty severe turn of events. Were you using your leg aids as well?

When your coach saw that you were having problems with this, what did they suggest to do? Or did you just keep going around the arena? 

I'm sorry you fell. Take an advil and put some icy hot or voltaren on that neck. Also you might need a new helmet.


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

Is it possible that the horse can tell you are a wreck? I had a mare when I was a kid, who knew exactly what buttons to push then as soon as I was flustered she would do just enough to push me over the edge then I would find myself in the dirt. Since then I have seen it in other horses with other riders too. 

Often times folks will blame the horse being in pain, or some issue with the horse, but since it seems to be you, (no offense intended) you may see a chiropractor or some other Dr. who can check YOUR alignment...... 

Best of luck
Jim


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## princessfluffybritches (Aug 10, 2012)

I think you have a balance issue that you may not be aware of and need many lunge line lessons to give you an independent seat. The horses can feel that lack of balance, and try to stay under you but get pulled in the opposite direction and are confused about what you want.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Knowing you ride heavier on one side means you need to correct this before you do anything else. It is unfair to the horse. Just because it's been fine in the past doesn't mean it wants to continue carrying lop-sided weight.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

horses have bad days. they are extremely emotionally based animals, as are most intelligent animals. if she was good for you most of the time, and now is not, there is something on her mind, that is conflicting with you and your signals. she may be in heat, she may have had a change of diet, change of stable mates, had some thing that kept her from getting any sleep last night, and on and on. her emotional state is bad to begin with, then she has a rider on board who wants her to do something she doesn't want to do, something that if she were not in a bad emotional state she would likely go along with.

waht I am saying is that you say, "why am I always having problems", but then you say she was good for you most of the time. So, it isn't "always", it's sometimes. welcome to the world. we all have bad days with our horses.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I am a beginner also, but kind of in the same boat as you. I've done a ton of research and talked to several people here and at my barn. Here is my feedback for you:

Your attitude has a big effect on the horse emotionally. I'm guessing based on several posts I've read by you on the forum that you get on the horse very stressed out and nervous. You expect something bad to happen because something always does.

Someone once said somewhere that horses are mirrors of ourselves. You can't expect to get on a horse while you're nervous and have a great lesson, because the horse will pick up on that and figure you must have a great reason for being nervous and therefore it should be nervous too. Then it acts out, you get more nervous, and it escalates to the point where the horse just wants you OFF.

I've been very nervous riding myself, so I know the only solution to not being nervous is to start back from the beginning. Just saying, "I'm not going to be nervous," will not work! Confidence is what gets rid of nerves and you can't have confidence if your skills are lacking.

SOLUTION: Ask your instructor to do easy, easy basic lessons for a while so you can build your confidence back up. That's what I did. It worked really well.

Just a few weeks ago you were posting that you gripped the horse too much with your legs. That means you need to work on your seat, your balance, your cues, basically almost everything. If you can't trot without stirrups and without bouncing, you shouldn't be cantering. It sounds like your instructor has pushed you too hard, too fast, and now you're suffering the fallout.

Riding should be fun. A challenge, but not a death match. Find another instructor, and if you can't, have a heart-to-heart and tell her/him that you need to start fresh and build on your foundation first. This could even mean going to a longe line and learning to ride first without reins and stirrups. I hear there's nothing better for learning balance than that!

And for some inspiration, a video for you from the Spanish riding school in Vienna. Watch these guys do their training on the longe line! The longe line stuff starts in the last minute of video 1 and continues in the beginning of video 2.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

hi, thank you to everyone for sharing

I have been off the radar as I have been busy with work. 

I find that i only get into a bad spell whenever I get serious about improving.. i.e. get more conscious about how i place my legs, try too hard to engage the horse..

I have real issues with making a horse listen to me.. I really don;t know how to do this. They seemed to be extremely defiant once they realise I am scared. But i have seen other scared riders too but they don't get bullied to such an extent. I want to improve, but i don't want to have accidents like this again. It's one thing if I fall off a horse if she gets spooked but it's different if it's a horse who seems determined to get me off.. and is rebellious.. and it's a horse that has never given anyone else such problems.. except for me.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well sorry to say if the horse only gives you problems, then it is you that is the issue!

Tense nervous unbalanced rider, like it or not it is you and your body upsetting the horse. How do I know? Because it was brought home to me very clearly when I rode a rented horse at a reining clinic. 

My horse is an Angel, no attitude, but he foes struggle with some things, funny that the first horse I rode in the clinic also had problems in the same areas, didn't take much to work out that my body is the issue. Then I got swapped onto a horse who I know is brilliant, and it was a disaster, my faults worried him, he got faster, I got tense, I got heavy on his mouth, and he tried to cart me. It was a great reminder that less is more, less pressure in the cues you give, lighten the leg and hand, ride with your mind, to steal a quote,

I would also suggest a lunge lesson if you can, work on your position and balance without having to worry about controlling your horse. A gym ball is also a great thing to have, you can work on your balance at home!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Hi, i actually get even more scared on lunge lessons. Want to know why? Cos even the sweetest horse will keep running inwards when I am on the lunge.., Doesn't listen to me, keep pulling head forward or tossing head.. And because I am on a tight leash, I feel even scared. I actually do better without the lunge than on the lunge. I am hopeless. 

The funny thing is I have never had an accident during a trail ride, cos the horse follows. It's only when I try to make a horse listen to me that we have problems. 

I thought Pebbles (the horse that I have been riding for two months and threw me off last week) and I were a team.. She really broke my heart. I have been giving her carrots after lesson, and talking to her a lot, massaging her neck. Everything was fine till last week. I told her during the lesson that I forgot her carrots this time. I know this sounds absolutely batty.. but i am kinda wondering if she understood. and that was what ****ed her off :lol:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

OK, do they run inwards on both directions on the lunge? If so it is your balance that is bad rather than one side of your body being stronger. 

I'm still saying that to cure this you may need to go back to the lunge, and work on it, also see if your barn, or you at home can fit up something like this











Now credit for that goes to one of our members and I can't remember who, sorry. 

You need an instructor who can talk you through on the ground, if you aren't getting it where you are, then maybe you need to move!


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Darn, GH, it's too bad I didn't know about the barrel balancing sooner - I could have set it up in the basement and played with that during all those cold snaps that kept me inside this winter.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

You should be using seat and leg more than hands. Which may mean you are heavy handed and causing most of these problems.

And horse may have finally gotten fed up with it.

Do you do any work without reins?


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

I rode the same horse today and she tested me. She kept pulling away from my outside rein to go where she wanted. In the end, i just walked her, while other people in class cantered.. and gave me incredulous looks. I told the instructor not to push me. I found that i really had to concentrate a lot to make the horse not have funny thoughts. This was never the case. She was constantly testing me in the class. Today she tried to run back to her stables after the lesson, when in the past, she would drag her feet. She was obviously bullying me. Everyone, and i swear, everyone, kept telling me she's the sweetest horse around. BUT WELL, not to me. I rode her for two months before she went crazy. Classic case of Familiarity breeds contempt? People seem to think i should just get on with it. But confidence is not something that you can wake up with one morning by telling yourself - TODAY I WILL HAVE CONFIDENCE, and D*MN it, you will have it.

If she had spooked the last time, i wouldn't be so scared. It was how she refused to listen to me and insisted on doing the opposite of everything i wanted, and how she fought me, that really scares me. And the fact that she's supposed to be the sweetest horse in the whole school makes me feel worse and more scared, not better..


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## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Lesson horses can be called "sweet" and "gentle," yet still be difficult to ride. 

Case in point: Before I bought my horse, I took refresher lessons at a local barn that mostly dealt with young adults. (I am NOT young, but I liked the facility.) I rode a grey thoroughbred, whom everyone agreed was "sweet" and "gentle." And he _was_ -- _on the ground._ Under saddle, he was tough from years of newbies pulling on his mouth. His sides were dead from so much kicking. The only thing that worked even half-way well was a crop on the shoulder. Short of having a major CTJ with him -- which I couldn't do, because I was a student, not the owner or instructor -- that horse was going to do whatever he wanted (because he had gotten away with it for years). The only thing I can say that was good about him was that he was safe for beginners (primarily because he didn't do too much of anything other than walk-trot). When I mentioned it, they put me on a palomino that was even worse. I ended up quitting there, several weeks before I purchased my horse, because I felt that I was actually getting worse instead of better.

My point: Lesson horses aren't always so great. They can reach a point where they're on longer suitable for schooling.

Based on your troubles -- with multiple horses in multiple places -- I suspect that this probably is NOT the case. But I feel that you should consider switching instructors because s/he has not been able to identify why you're having these problems (or because you aren't listening to her/his explanations about what you're doing wrong). Change instructors. Change disciplines. Clearly, you aren't having fun anymore; so you're due for a major change.

Good luck.


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## CaballoBarro (Feb 9, 2014)

IMO I'd say part of your problem is you are kind of victimizing yourself, these horses aren't bullying you, they are not trying to make you feel bad nor do they hate you. It sounds like you and pebbles are having some communication issues right now. as others have mentioned this is probably due to a combination of your balance and your own fears. You said yourself that this starts happening whenever you start really working on controlling the horse so in the back of your mind you are wondering when this horse will start acting up too. So when you told the horse you didn't bring carrots that irrational fearful part of your brain started jumping up and down going "she'll be mad I didn't bring treats she is going to go nuts", then when you get nervous your go to position that throws you off balance, (most people go into a fetal position which causes the horse to speed up). It is possible that Pebbles was trying to catch you and keep you from falling then as you got more nervous she got worse. 

I'd say keeping working on slow work, ask your instructor if you can be taught lots of steering and control at a slower speed and take baby steps at improving, be proud of small accomplishments. the only way to gain confidence is to keep slowly working on it and trying not to get frustrated with yourself or the horse. (also even if you get back up to cantering then are having a bad day as soon as the lesson starts don't canter that day set yourself up for success by sticking to the slow work)

sometimes it is easier if someone distracts you a little, one girl I know was convinced her horse could not cross water so of course he couldn't the next time we were on the trail I got her talking and surprise, surprise, her horse marched straight through deep water with no hesitation, she was too busy chatting to get nervous so her horse wasn't nervous either. 

hang in there and good luck to you


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> IMO I'd say part of your problem is you are kind of victimizing yourself, these horses aren't bullying you, they are not trying to make you feel bad nor do they hate you


 this. And the issue is clearly with you. STOP comparing yourself to other riders, STOP labling the horses as bullies that "break your heart". START looking at yourself objectively. Step outside the emotions, and really look at what your doing. I am almost exclusively self taught, yet I have a great seat, good legs, soft hands, great balance. Why? Because I blamed myself when the horse did something wrong, and tried to find ways to fix it. 99% of the time, I was unbalanced and/or not communicating in a way the horse understood. When a mare bucked me off and badly shattered my wrist, I looked at myself. Why did it happen? I was tense + mare was tense + pulling back on the reins instead of a circle or one rein stop to redirect = disaster. So I learned to do things differently. I control my emotions better, I work a tense, distracted horse on the ground before getting on, and most importantly I learned to redirect a horse that was heading towards 'out of control', instead of trapping them with two reins. Instead of learning those lessons, I could have said "Magic is a bully, I fed her oats and brushed her and she betrayed me. I don't understand why a nice turned into such a jerk:-(".

see the difference? You can learn so much from your failures, if you are willing to learn, or you can not learn, compare yourself to others and be upset.

I know a girl that is tiny, light weight and has an amazing seat. I couldn't figure out why she had problem after problem. First her horse was bolting dangerously on her, but I couldn't get him to do it. Then her "advanced beginner" level gelding started to refuse to go, and crowhop when ridden alone. He was a perfect angle for me, and rode off property without hesitation. Then she got on a horse that myself and another person had rode before, who had an excellent, willing disposition and had never offered to misbehave, and he violently bucked her off. I figured it out. If this rider got excited, tense, had a bad day, or even really focused on her 'proper' English form, it all translated to her hands. she was not releasing when she should, and was taking ahold of their mouths when she should not. It drives horses crazy, and brings out the worst possible behaviour.


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## smorzie (Apr 7, 2014)

I had a similar problem with a horse i rode when she wouldn't listen at all and i ended up falling off but working on the ground with them and building trust i find helps a lot but you also should relax and be nice and gentle when you tell the horse what he/she needs to do for you


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

CaballoBarro said:


> IMO I'd say part of your problem is you are kind of victimizing yourself, these horses aren't bullying you, they are not trying to make you feel bad nor do they hate you.



This, plus you seem to be throwing a decent amount of absolutism and drama into the mix with the attitude of "horses always hate me." Only then it turns out it is not "always" and besides, "hate" and "bullying" doesn't apply to animals. Animals, especially horses, mirror you and feel your emotions and tension very acutely. Horses are extremely good at reading body language and most of us are not even aware of what kind of messages we are sending just by the way we seemingly stand still next to a horse. Never mind when we move or ride. 

Sometimes it is just our attitude towards animals and their place in our world (or rather our place in their) that makes a difference.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

The people who have read my other posts know that I do think there's something i do wrong or there's something about me, and i don;t blame the horses at all. Nor do i hate them. I was just very disappointed that even the horses which have behaved with children learning to ride, have rebelled against me. I think my problem is serious because none of the instructors i have rode with, seems to be able to pinpoint what it is. Because I don't exactly know what it is, i am very worried. So maybe my fear is picked up by the horse when I ride. I have been trying very hard to find out what the issue is.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

i expect to find feedback, not judgement. And i think a lot of other horse lovers or people who are trying to improve, expect the same thing when they share.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mavis said:


> i expect to find feedback, not judgement. And i think a lot of other horse lovers or people who are trying to improve, expect the same thing when they share.


It is horribly difficult to divide the two cleanly, I read what you write, I make a judgement, and then I feed back, that is my process.

Now in this post 



> The people who have read my other posts know that I do think there's something i do wrong or there's something about me, and i don;t blame the horses at all. Nor do i hate them.* I was just very disappointed that even the horses which have behaved with children learning to ride, have rebelled against me.* I think my problem is serious because none of the instructors i have rode with, seems to be able to pinpoint what it is. Because I don't exactly know what it is, i am very worried. So maybe my fear is picked up by the horse when I ride. I have been trying very hard to find out what the issue is.


Again as others have said your terminology is very particular, most don't describe rebellion, and in my judgement, that says a lot about your thought process....you continually ascribe thoughts and emotions to horses that they simply don't (for the most past) have.

YES your fear is picked up by the horses you ride, and that is what they react to, and I'm sorry to say until you get the right trainer/horse combination you will struggle to get over this. Also you need to actually look at YOU, no one here can tell you what the issue is, there is no magic wand on the internet to fix it. You need to have the right person, telling you, as it happens, what the issue is, and you need to listen and work on that.

If fear is holding you back, then you need not to be doing anymore than walking, until you are set and ready to go faster, there is no shame in getting things right at a slower pace before you move up


ETA...I hav just checked your profile, in 2011 you were asking the same questions...my judgement is you are either not serious about learning, or you simply are choosing the wrong discipline, really 3 years of the same thing??


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

yes, it's the same problem because i haven't solved it. If i have solved it, i wouldn't be asking the same issues. 

If you have read my posts, you would also realise that i only experience these issues whenever i get serious about improving and really apply myself, which really causes me to worry. You would also have known that I took a very long break from riding. 

of course you can make a judgement, but when you make one, you have to be able to justify it. 

I felt the horse was rebelling against me, because she was doing opposite of what i wanted. She was behaving very different from previously because we have had no problems till last week. It was a sudden turnaround, like a kid saying, "I have had enough!" Isn't that rebellion? And i was saying it objectively because that was the truth. And i don't think it was malapropism. I work with words. Besides, it was what I felt. 

being good with horses doesn't mean you are a language expert, or a human behaviour or psychology expert. 

I am ok with people telling me what i could have done or should have done, but i don;t appreciate value judgement from someone who can't appreciate the fears of someone who just has issues with riding beyond her control but is trying to improve. 

Fortunately, .most of the comments i have received are from people who are empathetic and remember what it was like when they had problems. 

your last statement says a lot about your attitude towards people who are really trying to improve. I will not bother to continue this exchange with someone i don;t know.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mavis said:


> Fortunately, .most of the comments i have received are from people who are empathetic and remember what it was like when they had problems.
> 
> your last statement says a lot about your attitude towards people who are really trying to improve. I will not bother to continue this exchange with someone i don;t know.


If you don't want opinions from people you don't know, don't post online, that one is easy.

Remember what it is like to have problems, yeah well you don't know me do you? I have MAJOR issues, as do many riders, because we are none of us perfect. I am 10 months out from a major wreck that put me in hospital for a month, I still cry through fear every now and again. I though listen to my trainer, I take on board the feedback that I get both online and in real life...

Two weeks ago I got to ride a reining horse and you knwo what? He didn't listen to me, he REBELLED, I have seen a kiddy win big time shows on him, but I couldn't stop, or steer, he carted me, he tried to rear.....IS IT ME??

To **** right it was me, I was too heavy in my hands, I was to 'woolly' with my commands, I am heavier and not as well balanced than his normal rider. See I know EXACTLY what it feels like. BUT BUT BUT, I have taken the feedback from that trainer, I have asked my friends online, and I know what the issue was, it WAS ME. So now I am working hard to improve all those things, my fitness, my balance, my hands, and next time I ride him it will be different.

So don't tell me I don't understand what it feels like, what I don't understand is how you are still having the same issues after 3 years. That tells me that you need to find someone else in real life to help you, because one good person on teh ground to talk you through yours fears and issues is better than 100's of random online people who have not been able to help you.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

It would be wonderful if you could have someone video some of your riding. There are so many possibilities for your troubles, and there are many VERY experienced and helpful people on here. 

It is so frustrating to work really hard at something you love and have a bad day of it. But it happens to all of us. That is why horseback riding is so exciting to me, as opposed to a motorcycle or bicycle. There are two beings in the equation, not just one, so the conundrum is even more difficult to figure out. But we all know it is worth it.

Hang in there and try the hard stuff. If you are having problems on the lunge line, then your balance is probably an issue. 

Have you tried stirrup-less at a slower gait? Or bareback? 

I often ride bareback to keep my balance and core muscle strength up to par. I also try using a neck strap in the arena, to get my focus on leg and seat cues. I have a tough time with leg because I have a really bad old injury in my right leg, so I have to keep working at it.

I think some posters may sound harsh to you because you have been offered a lot of things to try, and you haven't said you will try any of them. We really want to help you! We have all been there in one way or another, and the best solution is usually to go back to basics and make sure you are solid in them: balance, aligned posture, hands, leg, seat, gaze forward...


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I taught with my OWN horses, and did lessons with up to 5 at a time. I KNEW my horses, they KNEW that I would show them a whip if they didn't move, and they KNEW that the "wrath of God" was coming if they took a step wrong and tried what these horses are doing.
That said, I took lessons at a stable with THEIR lesson horses. MY instructor would give us a chance to fix a problem, but would have us dismount if the horse was dangerous.
Look for an instructor would can give you some one-on-one lessons with a VERY calm lesson horse. It's not impossible, just get pushy and start asking around.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

foxtail, i have been trying.. use my seat, turn my eyes to where I am going,direct with my belly button and shoulders, ease off the pressure on my seat, don;t sit on the front of my groin but more on my seat bones, sit further back, straighten my overly arched back, ease off the pressure on the legs, make conscious effort to ease off the inside rein especially when i am going left because i know my right hand is very heavy, be assertive with the outside rein so the horse doesn't drift in. Concentrate on the horse, instead of thinking of other things. 

I tried all these things especially after the riding retreat i went to recently. I tried to apply all these new things i learnt, and the horse I was riding before that, completely went ballistic.. even the teacher told she had never done that before.

It is because all these happened when i really tried to improve, that i am very worried.

I could carry on fluffing around, let the horse follow another rider in front, and never really master "driving" them and be a passive passenger, but that's not what i want to do. I really want to improve, and it's worrying when i try so hard, but got an extreme reaction from the horse.. (tho the teacher said my seat looks like it has improved) and this teacher has more than 20 years of experience and has received no complaints from anyone. 

SIGH..

I am now at the point where I am gripped with fear (because i don't know why i could trigger the horse to behave in such a way), that i think the horse senses it and can't respect me again. two days ago I rode the same horse who threw me off last week, and she kept testing me. I only dared to walk slowly.. baby steps.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Corporal said:


> Look for an instructor would can give you some one-on-one lessons with a VERY calm lesson horse. It's not impossible, just get pushy and start asking around.


Everyone kept telling me after my accident, "Pebbles is a really good horse… Pebbles is the best horse for learners." That makes me feel worse, not because i think she's bad.. but it makes me wonder what serious problem do i have.. 

i even wonder if it is because I am too big for a (probably) 15.2hh pony at 54kg as she's used to kids. But my instructor said no.. (and anyway, the first two months of riding her went ok)

I have been asking the instructor to give me a different horse but he says the same thing as others. I managed to survive a session of walking on Wed; hopefully I don't do anything to upset Pebbles again till i have built up enough confidence.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Foxtail Ranch said:


> .
> 
> It is so frustrating to work really hard at something you love and have a bad day of it. But it happens to all of us. That is why horseback riding is so exciting to me, as opposed to a motorcycle or bicycle. There are two beings in the equation, not just one, so the conundrum is even more difficult to figure out. But we all know it is worth it.
> 
> ...


I think it's my body.. When i go to a chiropractor, they tell me my right side is in a bad shape as it's overworked. 

i am actually not too bad with sitting trot without stirrups. But i have only done it following another horse.. so maybe that helps.


My helpless (for lack of a better word, because i really don't want to be helpless anymore) only really shows when I am trying to make a horse listen to me, do what i want… i.e. when i try to take charge,. not just follow the horse in front.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

I do think you need to continue to ride this horse, however when one of my students has an unusual problem with one of my lesson horses, I have them get off and I ride the horse myself. I do this both to discipline them in a way the student can't and also to see if I can figure out why it's happening.
If this had only happened once, I'd just figure the horse was particularly crabby that day (and yes, horses do have bad days just like us). The problem you will have now is that the horse will sense your lack of confidence and take advantage of it.
If you have any more episodes, see if your instructor would be willing to ride the horse for 5 minutes or so. I do understand why he's making you ride this horse-you just can't get stuck with this mental block if you want to advance. Even if you don't feel it inside, when a horse intimidates you, you must sit up tall, take deep breaths, grit your teeth and pretend you're 10 feet tall.
Good luck!!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

If you were close and I still had my QH, "Ro Go Bar" (1982-2009, RIP), I would give you a few lessons on him to get your confidence back. I once had a student who was so afraid that we started with a single student lesson. She sat on him and we talked for a full hour. *He stood still and patient, which was what he did, inspire confidence for my students.* In fact, I had to be careful not to overwork him bc he was my STUDENT's favorite horse, and the 2nd favorite of our family. He didn't mind if a rider's balance was off, or if they cued correctly or not bc he took HIS cues from me, in the center or the arena, where your lessons SHOULD be taught. In short, a good lesson horse is very forgiving, no matter what you ability. Right NOW, your abilities are eroding away bc your confidence is eroding away. Your fears of being hurt are VERY REAL.
It's your money, but IMHO you are throwing it away with an instructor that believes you should learn to ride in a rodeo, instead of working or learning how to cue a horse.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> I don;t blame the horses at all. Nor do I hate them


 using words like "rebelling" and "bully" convey a negative attitude towards the subject, and make people feel like you are blaming the horse. If you had said "I don't know what I'm doing to cause the horse to act up" rather than the horse is "rebelling" or a "bully" your point would be more easily understood.

Anyhow, you need to take a look at the big picture here, not focus on the small things for a bit. Take a breath, make sure your balanced, and just remind your self to sit softly, have soft rein contact and light/no contact with your legs. If you were riding with me, I would put you on a quiet horse, without stirrups and using one rein at a time, and work on a walk. I think either you are badly off balance, your hands are 'grabby' and unforgiving, or your gripping with your legs. If balance is your issue, you should feel unstable stirrupless and very unstable bareback,.

This should not be an issue that takes a long time to fix. If another instructor is not an option, taking a video of your riding and posting it here might help people to diagnose whats going on, as will consciously thinking about your hands, legs and balance every ride.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

mavis, I hear you. 

Please video for us! I will not be able to give you good feedback, but there are people on here that can and they are awesome! 

If your body has issues, you may need help from a physical therapist or chiro. I do, from time to time, because I have that major injury which makes things a bit challenging sometimes. They may be able to give you some exercises that help. Like for me, I need to do calf raises to keep those damaged muscles responsive. For the rest of my life. *sigh* 

As far as the horse changing when you go from passenger to rider, well, IMO that could be two things: 

1. Many lesson horses/dude ranch horses are comfortable following, and do not like the rider to take control. But here, the coach should be helping you respond in a way that works for that horse. And it is still in your hands, and not the horses fault. The horse will relinquish control when you prove that you are a good enough leader for him.

2. When we think too much about what we are doing, especially if we are trying to do MULTIPLE new things, it can all fall apart very easily. I agree that some one-on-one time with a coach would be good, focusing on JUST ONE THING at a time. I like immediate feedback AS I am doing what the coach is looking for. Then my body can feel what that feels like, and seek that muscle memory. 

Remember too, that as you grow as a rider, you know enough to be more critical of yourself, and that can be frustrating. 

So what, if you hit a rough patch with this horse! Everyone has a rough patch now and then, if they are truly growing as a rider. Riders are tough! We dust off and get back on. We keep working at it. You are tough. You can do this.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

This try this from a different direction.

this thread in 2011

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/steering-94003/



> Hi
> 
> I am having problems with steering. If it's a well-schooled mature horse, I have no issues. But when it's young horse with a mind of its own or one who is not happy about riding when it's close to his dinner-time, I can't seem to steer the horse at all. NO matter how much leg aid I apply, or how much I work the reins to make it go in the direction I want; the horse just refuses. When I can't control the horse or at least make it go where I want, my instant reaction is to let it go where it wants.. or to slow it down... in order to avoid him jerking very hard and therefore, an accident. I just had a lesson yesterday which didn't go anywhere as a result of me not being able to steer the horse well. The instructor said it's because I don't have much strength in my arms; but I differ. I actually work out a lot on my arms. I am wondering if it's because I am not assertive enough on the horse. But I find that having hard reins desensitise the horse..
> 
> ARgh.. what I should do? I feel very discouraged of late..Why do I keep getting stubborn horses? SInce I can't change a horse, I need to work on the way I ride them. If other people can; why can't I?



What is it that you have tried in the last 3 years to correct this?

What positive steps have you taken to try and sort out the same issue that you are struggling with now?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Mavis,
I think you need private lessons. Sounds like you're in a group situation and you really need one-on-one instruction considering the issues you're having.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Can you effectively work with a horse on the ground? As in lead, tie, halter, tack, groom, turn loose?



Like it or not, it is something core to you that is causing this if it keeps happening.

Either your skills are sadly lacking all the way around, you aren't listening when someone is trying to help you, much I might add, like you have done to those who have offered constructive advice.

And your comment about taking advice or not, from people you don't know? Rubbed many of us the wrong way. You sought out advice from people you didn't know, so one of two things has happened I would say. People who know you in person are fed up with you not progressing and your attitude, or you are not actively trying to figure out what you are doing wrong.

Make no mistake. This is all a Mavis problem. Not any equines.

And until you take a good hard look at what you are doing to cause this, either by lack of backbone or sheer bullheadness because you don't want to listen, you won't find your horse experience much different.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

Here is what I think happened. Your problem is 100% mental. You say you were riding Pebbles well for 2 months. For 2 months you felt you were doing well on her, you clicked, you worked well as a until. Everything was great. She was the wonderful, suitable for children angel everyone says she is. And then one day, for one lesson, Pebbles was a little less than perfect, which ended in you falling off. Maybe Pebbles was having a bad day. It happens to horses too. They can be grumpy and not behave as well as they normally do. So, Pebbles was a little grumpy and decided to act up a bit. Being that you are not the most confident rider, this sudden change in her behavior made you nervous. She felt that you were nervous, and it made her nervous so she continued to act up. And so you kept feeding off each other until you ended up on the ground. 

What I don't understand is why you a so certain that Pebbles is no longer the horse she showed you she was for 2 months. I know you said you rode her again and the same thing happened, but I'm willing to bet that you were all kinds of freaked out about getting back on her, so of course Pebbles wasn't on her best behavior again. I know it's hard to become confident again, but try reminding yourself that Pebbles is in fact that wonderfully sweet, safe for children mare you had been riding so successfully for 2 months. The anomaly was her acting up for one day, not being a great riding partner for 2 months.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

Amba1027 said:


> Here is what I think happened. Your problem is 100% mental. You say you were riding Pebbles well for 2 months. For 2 months you felt you were doing well on her, you clicked, you worked well as a until. Everything was great. She was the wonderful, suitable for children angel everyone says she is. And then one day, for one lesson, Pebbles was a little less than perfect, which ended in you falling off. Maybe Pebbles was having a bad day. It happens to horses too. They can be grumpy and not behave as well as they normally do. So, Pebbles was a little grumpy and decided to act up a bit. Being that you are not the most confident rider, this sudden change in her behavior made you nervous. She felt that you were nervous, and it made her nervous so she continued to act up. And so you kept feeding off each other until you ended up on the ground.
> 
> *What I don't understand is why you a so certain that Pebbles is no longer the horse she showed you she was for 2 months. *I know you said you rode her again and the same thing happened, but I'm willing to bet that you were all kinds of freaked out about getting back on her, so of course Pebbles wasn't on her best behavior again. I know it's hard to become confident again, but try reminding yourself that Pebbles is in fact that wonderfully sweet, safe for children mare you had been riding so successfully for 2 months. The anomaly was her acting up for one day, not being a great riding partner for 2 months.


This is a great point, and something to think about. I am not even a horse person, but I've been watching my kid's riding lessons for several years now, and now and then one of the kids will have a horse that acts up during a lesson--different horses, different kids, different disciplines, different barns and instructors.

Invariably I observed the kids comfort the horse after the lesson. I've seen them talk to the horse--either comforting the "poor girl" for having a bad day, or jokingly admonishing, but with a lot of compassion. I haven't seen a kid / teenager blame a horse, ever. Mind you, my experiences are very limited, but nevertheless they make your attitude stand out from what I experience is the majority. 

Another thing to acknowledge is that when learning a new skill there's often a step back before a leap forward. This is normal and how learning occurs. Is it possible that you feel you are doing worse just before you achieve a new skill, but due to your tendency to be overly dramatic (I get it, my daughter is the same--she feels everything so deeply and her emotions ofter run big) your step back seems like a dramatic failure to you? Do you tend to be hard on yourself (and by extension on your horse)? Are you a perfectionist? My daughter is both. There were times when I picked her up from her lessons and she said that even though she loved the lesson she felt she regressed in her skills and couldn't do x, y, z. Eventually I asked her instructor about how she was doing and whether she was doing as badly as she was telling me. Her trainer looked at me with surprise and said that no, she was doing great and progressing very well. I talk to my daughter about the learning process all the time, especially as she can be quite negative about her own abilities. Last week we were driving home from the barn and she said, "You know, mom, you were right. For several weeks I felt I couldn't do the things that I knew how to do before, but today everything was so easy and light." I stopped the car, turned to her and said, "Now, remember this moment. Remember how it feels. Because you are going to feel like you are failing countless times, but if you work hard and keep on learning, you will realize that those failing moments happen just before a big leap forward." 

Do you have someone objective to watch you ride? Your mom, a friend? Do you have someone videotape you on a regular basis so that you can see your progress over time? Is it possible you are not even doing as badly as you think? Do you find your thoughts cycle in a negative when you feel you failed? Maybe this is why your posts repeat themselves and you tend to be so categorical in your expressions? 

My doesn't have a diagnosed anxiety disorder, but she does have anxiety related tendencies, her perfectionist can be crippling, and she's very critical of herself. Her glass is mostly half-empty--she's always been a pessimist. She is like that with everything, except horses. This is why I drive her to the barn several times a week, even if it takes over an hour just to get there.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Palomine said:


> Can you effectively work with a horse on the ground? As in lead, tie, halter, tack, groom, turn loose?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You saw red when you only read the last statement from me. It was a response to Golden Horse's sarcasm about me still having problems after three years.. pls go read her last statement in the post which i have responded with..

I didn't say i wouldn't want to take advice from people i don't know.. I said I didnt want 't carry on that exchange.. I should have elaborated.. i meant an exchange that was unpleasant.. I don;t think i should carry on an exchange with a stranger if it upsets me - fair enough? Her statement smacks of sarcasm and is hurtful to someone (or any other people) who is trying very hard at something but still sucks.. Does it mean we all give up just because we don;t improve after three years? 

Some of you are quick to dismiss me as not being able to take constructive criticisms but you didn't realise how quick you were to lambast and make value personal judgements because of some statements you don't like, instead of reading everything in context, I just feel I shouldn't waste energy in engaging in conversations that are draining emotionally and negatively. Because i came to this forum to improve, to share my experiences.. hoping that someone who understands the situation having been through it, or coached similar riders, could give me an insight. I blame myself to some extent because even after applying what people advise me, i still can't improve.. because i can't control my fears… 

I really appreciate the kind comments from people who understand and are not quick to judge, or don't feel they need to get off from "lecturing" others behind a veil of anonymity that an online forum offers. 

I will keep working on lightening my hands, focus on the horse,try to understand her better (and yes, do more ground work.. be involved in the tacking, more carrots and brushing - currently the school does the grooming), lighten the leg pressure.. and imagine I am a better rider than i really am.. And that i am not afraid of the horse (though I am terrified as hell, having had a cracked tail bone from falling off a horse and even walked backwards after a fall because i had no control over my motions.. that required an MRI btw). 

I have tried to apply all the tips i learnt and advice given, but guess what? all these fly out of the window when you are petrified as hell. And what;s more, I only seem to trigger horses when I am trying very hard to apply the things i am supposed to do.

But i will keep trying.. First i need to work on my mind. 

Private lessons are not an option now.. because it costs USD120 a pop.  It's either group lessons every week, or i could only afford private lessons twice a month. 

I have told the teacher to put me in a smaller group, and to let me go on hacks, or just walk around first (while others do their thing)… to rebuild confidence.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

horselessmom said:


> This is a great point, and something to think about. I am not even a horse person, but I've been watching my kid's riding lessons for several years now, and now and then one of the kids will have a horse that acts up during a lesson--different horses, different kids, different disciplines, different barns and instructors.
> 
> Invariably I observed the kids comfort the horse after the lesson. I've seen them talk to the horse--either comforting the "poor girl" for having a bad day, or jokingly admonishing, but with a lot of compassion. I haven't seen a kid / teenager blame a horse, ever. Mind you, my experiences are very limited, but nevertheless they make your attitude stand out from what I experience is the majority.
> 
> ...


I have been told i am too soft on Pebbles.. Talking to her like she;s a baby. Treating her like a *****cat… cos even when we are walking out from the stables with me on her, i am massaging her neck and talking about carrots for her. The grooms laugh at me. The instructor told me the horse doesn't respect me. 

I can't help feeling the issue is really me (it is) when a lot of people keep telling me that Pebbles has never been like this. It seems clear to me .. that yes, even if she just had a bad day that day, she now knows I can be bullied (the teacher calls it that.. everyone in the riding circles in Singapore where I am based calls that. when a rider is not assertive and the horse doesn't listen to her)… she did try it again the following week. I am terrified because i don;t know what to do.. she's stronger and faster than me. So yes, my fears weigh a lot in my head and they affect me. I even thought of undergoing hypnotherapy after my last major accident which put me out of riding for a long time.. to get over my fears, as i know it's psychological, but i can't do anything much on my own about it.

But i will keep trying.. First i will try very hard not to think about how afraid i am. i will try to tell myself and her, "d*mn it, you are going to do what i say"

For those who are wondering why I am still continuing with riding, it's because i really enjoy trails. I love going on hacks when i travel overseas, in Spain, Italy etc. and ride in the countryside. Thats when i feel the happiest. I have no problems on these because the horse follows and apparently, according to people who have seen me on hacks, i ride ok. BUt i want to do more than just be a passenger on a horse.. I want to be able to tell my horse where to go, I want to be "the driver."

Re videos, a friend has promised to come watch my lesson next week.. We are hoping she can see something my instructor can't since he can;t fix his eyes on me all the time in a group class.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Palomine said:


> Can you effectively work with a horse on the ground? As in lead, tie, halter, tack, groom, turn loose?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are so many value judgements here. I never said it wasn't my problem. . You call me bullheaded. You don;t know anything about who or whether i have spoken to anyone in my school. You haven't read my other posts unclouded by pre-judgement to say i haven't actively figured out what went wrong. I have tried but i don't think i got it down to pad, which is what all the discussions were about. i won't engage with someone who can't give constructive advice without throwing in antagonistic remarks, any further.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Re all the kind suggestions about videotaping, my riding buddies ride at a different time from me as we all have to work/are of different riding abilities/like different instructors. And sometimes because of horse scheduling, we can't be having lessons at the same time. The only time we ride together is when we manage to put a riding holiday together. Apart from that, we meet outside the club outside rides.... and i can tell you most of my riding friends don't have much experience enough to advise (even if they can ride better) 

I live in Singapore, which is a land-scarce city. No one lingers around after riding, unlike at a ranch. Everyone dashes off to work. Only children and rich housewives linger around the Polo Club after lessons. As such, i also don't have much horse experience, compared to some people here who have grown up with horses. 

But because i really want to improve, a friend has agreed to drive to the club on a day she doesn't ride (but i do), just to watch and tell me her observations. She tells me she is not a good rider but she will do what she can to help me spot..


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Just wish to add that I believe that this is a forum where horse lovers come together to ask for insight from people who know better, or simply just to share their experiences. It's not necessary to say things like if you have friends who would listen to you, you wouldn't be here.. (ironic statement if you have a life, why are you spending so much time online, getting worked up over what a stranger whines about.. and calling names). The merit of a forum is that it gives you access to a bigger pool of people with better and wider expertise, as compared to just chatting with your friends.

I have never posted unkind responses to other people's threads because there's no need. everyone is entitled to their own issues, and problems. And what might seem like a non-issue to you might be a great issue for someone else. What do we know? 

If you don't have anything helpful to say, just keep quiet. If you don't like what someone says. or just feel you don't like someone from what you can infer in her posts, just leave her alone. A lot of decent people here do that. 

After all, real life itself presents enough challenges. Why pick a fight with someone you don't know? I rest my case, and i will not bother to defend myself against any more antagonistic comments from people who are quick to judge without having read my other posts in context. 

I just wish to add a thank you very much for those who have shared their experiences and given objective feedback without judgement.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mavis said:


> You saw red when you only read the last statement from me. It was a response to Golden Horse's sarcasm about me still having problems after three years.. pls go read her last statement in the post which i have responded with..
> 
> I didn't say i wouldn't want to take advice from people i don't know.. I said I didnt want 't carry on that exchange.. I should have elaborated.. i meant an exchange that was unpleasant.. I don;t think i should carry on an exchange with a stranger if it upsets me - fair enough? Her statement smacks of sarcasm and is hurtful to someone (or any other people) who is trying very hard at something but still sucks.. Does it mean we all give up just because we don;t improve after three years?
> 
> .


You still haven't answered what specifically you have been working on for 3 years?

I tell you what I have been working on for 3 months.

1) Being able to stand on a mounting block and hang over a horse without panicking

2) Being able to get on a horse without crying.

3) having someone lead me on a horse until I could breather normally

4) Walk once around the arena without feeling sick, and being able to breathe.

5) ....

no there is probably little point, do not dismiss advice or 'harsh words' because you don't want to hear them...did you read where I said I KNOW what it feels like, Saturday 5th April 2014 I was carted over the school by a good horse that a kiddie can ride, I couldn't stop or steer, I was in tears and asked to get back on the safe horse I had ridden in the morning.


Now I know it was me, because I have seen others rider the horse, so I need to fix MY issues before I ride him again.

Better balance, better core muscles, I must stop using my hands when I get worried, sit back and use the seat to stop. I asked the people who were there and online people for advice , now I am working on it. 

I don't know when I'll be ready to try that horse again, but I am working on my fitness, using my gym ball to help improve balance, doing exercises to improve my core strength. I've asked my instructor to help me focus on my hands, and she nags me every time i get it wrong.

It don't CARE how long it takes, we are all working to improve, but the thing that gets me is that you are asking exactly the same questions all over again, the answer lies in changing what you are doing, actually taking on board feedback and advice, and doing something with it.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Chasin Ponies said:


> I do think you need to continue to ride this horse, however when one of my students has an unusual problem with one of my lesson horses, I have them get off and I ride the horse myself. I do this both to discipline them in a way the student can't and also to see if I can figure out why it's happening.
> If this had only happened once, I'd just figure the horse was particularly crabby that day (and yes, horses do have bad days just like us). The problem you will have now is that the horse will sense your lack of confidence and take advantage of it.
> If you have any more episodes, see if your instructor would be willing to ride the horse for 5 minutes or so. I do understand why he's making you ride this horse-you just can't get stuck with this mental block if you want to advance. Even if you don't feel it inside, when a horse intimidates you, you must sit up tall, take deep breaths, grit your teeth and pretend you're 10 feet tall.
> Good luck!!


Thanks.. you are right. I must psyche myself differently, and get over my instincts. The horse knows I am afraid of her now.. so I have to tell myself that I am more determined than her to have my way (eerr.. though she's stronger.. and bigger, and could cause harm to me if i were to fall off.. Hahaha.. )


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It must be very challenging to try and learn about horses in such an environment , I mean Singapore isn't exactly a horsey town .


I wish we could have an afternoon together to mess around with horses, I think I could help you feel better on board one. But it is undeniable . . . Absolutely undeniable, that a oersons attitude is the rock bottom core of most problems in life, and horses . It is possible that because you do not seem to believe in yourself , with regards to horses , and perhaps a lot more, yet you get on a horse and attempt to project a commanding presence, that this disconnect between the outside actions and the inside belief is very unsettling to horses. 

Sounds corny but horses are very good at sniffing out such inconsistencies and they find them difficult because as an animal that reads body language as their first language, inconsistencies like that are hard to interpret and thus disconcerting. 

I know it's really hard to fake confidence if you don't have it deep down inside. But you have to start somewhere. I would suggest working for awhile on a horse that you can be successful on, and trying to never indulge yourself in such negative thinking as "this is the horse that even the beginner kids can ride ". It will only drag you down. Set small goals that are reachable and keep to comparing yourself to yourself of yesterday.


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## Chatterbox (Oct 10, 2013)

Hi Mavis, I am a complete novice so don't have any advice to give you but I just wanted to say that I admire you so much for not giving up and I really hope you manage to overcome your problems. Good luck!


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

A lot of , perhaps most of us over the age of twentysomething have had to deal with varying levels of fear issues that affects our enjoyment or even ability to ride. It's a bummer! Confidence is so easy to loose and so difficult to rebuild. You, well,...at least 'I', can't just talk ourselves out of it no matter how hard we try. It's often not even logical. But it (fear)... IS our brain's way of keeping us alive,,a basic ,often helpful, natural response which -on the flip side of things- gets in our way ! 

There've been some very good thoughts and suggestions given. All I want to add is to recomend a book that deals specifically with fear with horses. It's 'Move Closer, Stay Longer' by Stephanie Burns. It really helped me understand about comfort zones, how we learn, how we can enlarge our comfort zones rather than shutting down or engaging in even less helpful reactions. I think it might create a turning point for you.

My horse, Sonny, has a very large oppositional reflex. This is a normal, survival reflex in horses (if you do the opposite of what the predator wants, you get to live another day instead of being someone's dinner). Some horses have a stronger oppositional reflex than others by nature, and some by experience have it more deeply ingrained. It's not the horse being naughty, even though it feels that way to us. It's more a way to get out of work, but still is connected to that survival instinct. 
Although right now, my fear is to ask for the canter , I used to have a good deal of fear with even mounting to ride. I hated it, but it was there. The book and lots of baby steps has gotten me to the point that I ride walk ,trot with complete confidence now. Yay ! By baby steps, I mean some days just leaning accross him while standing on the mounting block,,,untill I finally WANTED on him. You get the picture. 
The main thing that I hope will be helpful to you is the change of mindset I had that made a difference when Sonny would go left instead of the right I was asking for. It was un-nerving me so much that I would dismount...untill I developed the mindset of 'WE are going this way---trying to think of us as a single unit-he WAS my legs.' ...rather than 'oh no! what is he doing now? why won't he follow my directional cues?" WHAT is he going to do next???" Things got better right away with the new mindset. He argued much less strongly, and my confidence started to grow.

Your situation is more challenging since you are in a lesson/lesson horse situation and dont' have your own horse to work with outside of lesson time, but I think you can work thru it.

Fay


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

mavis said:


> Just wish to add that I believe that this is a forum where horse lovers come together to ask for insight from people who know better, or simply just to share their experiences. It's not necessary to say things like if you have friends who would listen to you, you wouldn't be here.. (ironic statement if you have a life, why are you spending so much time online, getting worked up over what a stranger whines about.. and calling names). The merit of a forum is that it gives you access to a bigger pool of people with better and wider expertise, as compared to just chatting with your friends.
> 
> I have never posted unkind responses to other people's threads because there's no need. everyone is entitled to their own issues, and problems. And what might seem like a non-issue to you might be a great issue for someone else. What do we know?
> 
> ...



No one has been picking a fight with you. No one has been unkind. You have chosen to view it that way, same as you view that horses just don't like you period.

And no one in any way, shape or form has been antagonistic to you in the least. 

You haven't answered any questions I asked either, which would possibly have helped to pinpoint what you are telegraphing to horses to make you end up with problems with every single horse you are riding over span of years now.

So that is something you are doing. 

And you yourself have been far snarkier than any of the posters have been for that matter. Several of us have tried to help, but can't get past the attitude you are showing that the horses just don't like you, or you make them mad, or the "I'm just not going to deal with someone" mindset you have.

The very ones that you are giving that too? Are probably the ones that could have helped the most.

Oh well...good luck with horses.


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Palomine said:


> No one has been picking a fight with you. No one has been unkind. You have chosen to view it that way, same as you view that horses just don't like you period.
> 
> And no one in any way, shape or form has been antagonistic to you in the least.
> 
> ...


Just one sentence: thank you for confirming everything I said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

Chatterbox said:


> Hi Mavis, I am a complete novice so don't have any advice to give you but I just wanted to say that I admire you so much for not giving up and I really hope you manage to overcome your problems. Good luck!


Thanks. I hope so too 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> It must be very challenging to try and learn about horses in such an environment , I mean Singapore isn't exactly a horsey town .
> 
> 
> I wish we could have an afternoon together to mess around with horses, I think I could help you feel better on board one. But it is undeniable . . . Absolutely undeniable, that a oersons attitude is the rock bottom core of most problems in life, and horses . It is possible that because you do not seem to believe in yourself , with regards to horses , and perhaps a lot more, yet you get on a horse and attempt to project a commanding presence, that this disconnect between the outside actions and the inside belief is very unsettling to horses.
> ...


Thanks for being so understanding and objective. I think having the chance to be near horses more since a young age. Having said that, I have also met adults who are just talented at riding. 

You are right about it being hard to fake confidence, especially when you don't really feel it. And the horses pick up on it (can't kid them). I guess I just have to really psyche myself into thinking I can do this and I will stay on top of things (or rather the horse).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

mslady254 said:


> A lot of , perhaps most of us over the age of twentysomething have had to deal with varying levels of fear issues that affects our enjoyment or even ability to ride. It's a bummer! Confidence is so easy to loose and so difficult to rebuild. You, well,...at least 'I', can't just talk ourselves out of it no matter how hard we try. It's often not even logical. But it (fear)... IS our brain's way of keeping us alive,,a basic ,often helpful, natural response which -on the flip side of things- gets in our way !
> 
> There've been some very good thoughts and suggestions given. All I want to add is to recomend a book that deals specifically with fear with horses. It's 'Move Closer, Stay Longer' by Stephanie Burns. It really helped me understand about comfort zones, how we learn, how we can enlarge our comfort zones rather than shutting down or engaging in even less helpful reactions. I think it might create a turning point for you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for recommending the book and sharing your experience. I will look for it. I wish I could ride more often or have private lessons but cost is a huge constraint. :-( but I shall try to make the most of each lesson:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mavis (Jul 28, 2011)

mavis said:


> Thanks for recommending the book and sharing your experience. I will look for it. I wish I could ride more often or have private lessons but cost is a huge constraint. :-( but I shall try to make the most of each lesson:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Look for the book, i mean  my replies are brief cos it's 138am in this part of the world..haha.. but pls be assured i have read what you took the trouble and time to share


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mavis said:


> Just one sentence: thank you for confirming everything I said.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yup, that is exactly right, works both ways.


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## Peanutbutter (Apr 23, 2014)

horselessmom said:


> This is a great point, and something to think about. I am not even a horse person, but I've been watching my kid's riding lessons for several years now, and now and then one of the kids will have a horse that acts up during a lesson--different horses, different kids, different disciplines, different barns and instructors.
> 
> Invariably I observed the kids comfort the horse after the lesson. I've seen them talk to the horse--either comforting the "poor girl" for having a bad day, or jokingly admonishing, but with a lot of compassion. I haven't seen a kid / teenager blame a horse, ever. Mind you, my experiences are very limited, but nevertheless they make your attitude stand out from what I experience is the majority.
> 
> ...


I needed to read this today. I was like that as a child, and I do to some extent have those tendencies as an adult..
Good that you are seeing this in youre daughter and helping her with it.


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## Peanutbutter (Apr 23, 2014)

Mavis: Have you asked youre riding teacher if that person sees whats happening?


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## SammysMom (Jul 20, 2013)

You said you've been riding her for months without issue, but in the other thread you said every horse you ride "throws" you. It really doesn't sound like you're with the right trainer. There has to be something really major going on that she's not seeing if you're having this much trouble with every schooling horse you ride. I really wouldn't be doing anything but making sure to figure it out at this point.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Please take this comment to heart... 2 years ago I joined this forum and was very put off at the directness of some comments. I even got offended and considered leaving. But I stuck around as a lurker, and stalked training and riding posts til I finally realized that they are not attacking me or anyone for that matter. Describing things can be difficult and the more direct we are the easier it is especially when it's horse training and/or riding. I can promise and assure you that no one is being rude. If you hang out, you'll see how it's an extended family of sorts. These people do care and are trying to help, even if it seems harsh. Sometimes us country folk can be abrasive with out meaning to be lol oh Golden Horse is going through the exact same fears as you and probably has worse fear considering the accident they went through. You should talk to Golden Horse, you might have a friend who understands if you do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horsesgs (Feb 4, 2013)

Sometimes when you are confused or you feel nervous about something the horse picks up on it and reacts. Another thing is if you're new to riding a horse they sometimes like to test you to see how much you know.


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