# Nippy young horse? What to do?



## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

It sounds as though he's trying to tell you to get out of his space. You said you worked under/with a trainer - were you able to observe this behavior with him, and how did your trainer address it?

If a horse ever struck at me to bite, that horse would be busy for a minute improving his cardio fitness. If it's become a foreseeable event, I'd have a whip on me and, upon an attempt to bite, "bite" him back with a smart smack on the behind. (This will probably provoke a kick...) You are certainly correct in avoiding the face for correction. He can get my attention with a bite, but it won't be the kind of attention he'd enjoy.

Parallel to this, you have to ask whether you have this horse's respect and trust. It's certainly easy to make any horse to exhibit a behavior that you'd consider "respect for your space", but the trick is to do it in such a way that the horse still seeks out your company rather than staying away from you because he resents you. So any correction has to ultimately be balanced by bonding experiences, an opportunity for you to give him some loving for doing the right thing. 

So yes, you can get rougher, but you mustn't prolong the correction beyond the horse's ability to make the connection to the behavior. You should probably also get twice as cuddly when he does the right thing. Be "black and white", as Clinton Anderson would say. 

For the record, I have otherwise low standards of discipline for a horse. There's a horse that, when I offer him my hand to say Hi!, puts his entire upper lip over my finger tips so that they rest against his teeth, then he scrapes his front teeth against the palm of my hand. He never even so much as pinched my skin. So I definitely make a difference between "mouthy" and "biting." I'm going by your phrase "nip without warning". "Mouthy", in my book, is different in that the horse comes with a playful attitude and there's a lot of lip action to tell you to mind your finger tips. If I want him to stop, I start doing something annoying like grabbing his tongue or pinching his nostrils - two can play that game, after all!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm an eye for an eye type of corrector. If they bite at me they get bit back and it's not a playful type nip it's a hard bite. I think they understand this correction better than some others. It's rare I have to bite them a second time especially if I get a good hold the first time. 


That being said, you are calling him a colt. Has he been gelded? If not the only correction you may need is the removal of his testicles.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

I agree- an eye for an eye. Most, if not all, young horses I've known have bitten before. I absolutely will not tolerate biting or kicking. When they put their teeth on me, I put my teeth on them, hard and fast. 

Young colts will bite their mothers, what do their mothers do? Turn around and snap them back or give them a good boot. Hard and fast. 

Don't give a half hearted correction, don't nag, snap them once and make it a good one. I also don't care if I get them in the face to combat biting. A good knuckle to the lips or the nose isn't enough to make a horse head shy. Heck, I've seen my gelding boot my pony in the face for biting his hocks, and he will still eat under his hind legs. He doesn't, however, bite his hocks anymore.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You are his stand-in "momma" missing and time for momma to do some disciplining as she would of been doing to keep junior behaved in the wild.
I don't care what breed he is, nor now since he is handled and domesticated does he get any leeway...
He bites, he gets disciplined back...
If you choose to bite him back, so be it...
Hard and fast, done and over with as his momma or any other herd higher-ups would of been doing to junior from day one.
His biting is escalating and intensifying...nip it in the butt or run the risk of a serious bite.
_jmo._
:runninghorse2:_..._


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with a firm fair correction. 

One thing I would also do with babies that tried to nip or mouth me was to put a hand on either side of their muzzle and rub hard. They don't like that and as long as it is done quickly works well.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

My filly has tried to bite me a couple of times in the two and a half years on this planet (hasn't happened in about eight months). Both times she got bit back hard. She learned her lesson and didn't bite for quite a while until she forgot and tried it again. This is the sweetest filly ever but she is young and has to try things to see where she stands. 

I've never dealt with a colt before and have heard that smacking them makes them want to play the biting game some more. For my filly, a good hard smack was enough. The first time I smacked her on the neck and the second time she got it in the mouth. Both times she had a look of surprise on her face and walked away. Now her latest thing is trying to push past me with her shoulder when I'm hanging out with them in the pasture. It seems that it is a constant thing with the teenagers, they just have to keep trying you. I'll push her to back up but if she keeps doing it, she gets a crack on the shoulder and I send her away.

I'm all for finding out if pain is the cause if you are actually doing something but when they bite just for the sake of doing it, that gets hard correction. I'll let my horses nose me and investigate with their lips because they are curious but if the teeth come out, they are in trouble.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I've raised LOTS of foals and young colts are the worst for being mouthy and nipping/biting. When they bite, they get me right up in their face, very calmly and I get ahold of them under the chin so I have quick access to their little soft nose. I wait and let them get me a 2nd time and then I bite right back on the nose, HARD. Not enough to break the skin, but hard enough they know exactly what just happened. If you can get them right after they bite and make it hurt once or twice, they'll quit. Some colts tend to be worse than others and need to try it every 4-6 months until they mature but they see the hand coming up under the chin and know what's going to follow and that usually stops it. Since you've not been correcting him effectively for 1 1/2 years, I suspect you're going to really shock him and it will only take once. Just bite hard, fast and get your teeth off before he pulls back to get away, you don't want him taking your teeth with him.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

A swift and hard elbow jab followed by chasing him away from you. This is horse talk for, "not just no but h3ll no!"
After you run him off, give him a few minutes to let it soak in. Then go get him and resume what you were doing. He has now just learned exactly who is the herd leader. At his age he'll likely test that new relationship a few more times but as long as your leader response is the same, the biting will stop.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I'm not a biter as I don't feel quick enough. Have done it though. What has worked best for me is having a tack or small nail that is not much wider than my fingers between my index and middle fingers then when they bite they get a back hand. Thumb needs to be placed firmly over the head of the tack or nail to keep it in place. Go out expecting that once they start and it usually only takes one well timed, good correction. That was what I was advised to do on a draft mare that was out of control with her mouth. It worked so well I kept it in my tool box.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

When I say bite back, I don't mean literally. My hand (possibly with a sharp object) is my teeth.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

One good hard whack in the nose. If they try to bite while grooming ,a good hard elbow in the mouth. 

Undersaddle if they turn head to bite at me a well placed kick in the nose. Only takes maybe twice of them getting hit hard in nose and it stops the bitting ordeal.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

JerichoRyder said:


> I have done all of his gentling and handling under a professional trainer



So far, how has your trainer instructed you to address this problem?


For myself, there are very few things that I will hit a horse for, but biting is one of them. It only takes a split second for that horse to bite you in the jugular and now you can potentially be killed. Therefore, I consider biting a VERY dangerous behavior. 



Fixing the problems requires that you are paying attention at all times. You should be easily able to see the warning signs (pinned ears, "mean eyes", flared nostrils, etc) before the horse bites. If you do not know how to read and see these warning signs, then ask your trainer to help you. It is important to know when the horse is going to bite so you can correct him IMMEDIATELY. While you do want to keep yourself out of harm's way and don't let yourself get bit, you also do want the horse to "commit" to the bite so that he actually makes the mistake of trying to bite, so the correction is more effective (if that makes sense).


And hit him in the nose. HARD. He's trying to hurt you so do not be afraid of hurting him. You need to be the boss and let him know that is NOT acceptable at any time. It's also quite effective to go beserk on him (yelling, shouting, waving your arms, etc). The idea here is that he needs to think he is about to DIE for making the mistake of trying to bite you. Let him think that for about 3 seconds, and then act like nothing happened and go back to whatever it was you were doing.


Some don't like this method and of course, as with anything, it needs to be done CORRECTLY in order to be effective. But it is indeed *very effective.*


If you have any uncertanties about this, please, ask your trainer to help you.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've got a half-mustang who is kind of like that. With him, it is not aggression. He uses his mouth to explore new things far more than the other horses I've owned. He's never made contact with his teeth. When leading him, he seems to do it for two reasons:

"Hey, did you see that over there?"

Or to seek reassurance, probably related to the above. I've blocked his face, elbowed him a hundred times, turned around a punched him in the side of the face...but it hasn't made much of an impression on him. He FINALLY has accepted I dislike it, but it seems to be a reflex action with him. Three and a half years now. He never does it when upset or angry. Never made contact with his teeth. Just grabbing with his lips.

Probably not the same behavior at all, @JerichoRyder. I think it is a behavior that superficially LOOKS like biting, but isn't. I mention it because I've read lots of stuff trying to figure it out, including searching threads on HF. A number of people have told me to just wallop him. THAT has made no impression on him and I don't think it is what Bandit's behavior needs. Just mentioning it in case someone has a horse like him and is looking for "biting" threads for ideas.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

bsms said:


> I've got a half-mustang who is kind of like that. With him, it is not aggression. He uses his mouth to explore new things far more than the other horses I've owned. He's never made contact with his teeth. When leading him, he seems to do it for two reasons:
> 
> "Hey, did you see that over there?"
> 
> ...


Two of my horses are the same. They explore A LOT with their lips but I don't see that as the same as biting. I suppose it could lead to biting but with them it has not. Novia is one of the two that does this and yes, she has also tried to bite but I still see them as separate things. Her mother explores with her lips and has never bitten any human. The times when Novia has tried to bite it was different. She would try to take a swipe and then try to get out of the way like she knew discipline was following. They both explore everything with their upper lip.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

bsms said:


> I've got a half-mustang who is kind of like that. With him, it is not aggression. He uses his mouth to explore new things far more than the other horses I've owned. He's never made contact with his teeth. When leading him, he seems to do it for two reasons:
> 
> "Hey, did you see that over there?"
> 
> ...


I've never gotten after a horse for "exploring". As long as there's no teeth I don't care. They don't have fingers and hands, and God gave them those amazingly facile rubber lips, so what else can they use? I'm only talking about the ones who just reach over and gratuitously grab your hand, your arm, the farrier's butt, and that's not ok.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I think the problem is the folks around where I live act as if ANY mouthing is potentially dangerous. I need to accept the difference between exploring lips and biting teeth. Waiting for the farrier today, I was rubbing Bandit's face. He started playing with the sleeve of my jacket. Remembering this thread, I let him. And he responded by stepping closer, putting his head next to my chest and letting me play with his face while he breathed softly on me.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

bsms said:


> I think the problem is the folks around where I live act as if ANY mouthing is potentially dangerous. I need to accept the difference between exploring lips and biting teeth. Waiting for the farrier today, I was rubbing Bandit's face. He started playing with the sleeve of my jacket. Remembering this thread, I let him. And he responded by stepping closer, putting his head next to my chest and letting me play with his face while he breathed softly on me.


If I listened to even half the old cowpokes out here, I'd sell my horses and have motorcycles because they'd have more personality. Don't feed that horse treats, it will make him mouthy. Don't let him touch you with his lips or any other part of his mouth, he'll get nippy. Oh for God's Sake don't let that horse suck your thumb, he'll bite it off some day. Don't pet that horse, you'll distract him from his work. You're done riding, put him up, you don't need to waste a bunch of time on him. YAK YAK YAK YAK YAK YAK YAK. I ignore most of the advice I'm given. I kind of figure anybody who is ok with castrating a horse without anesthesia is probably not somebody I need to listen to.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Don't.............


"He has to *earn* his treats!"

Yup, I came with a halter to pick him up for a ride, and he stuck his nose in it instead of walking away. He earned a treat.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I kind of figure anybody who is ok with castrating a horse without anesthesia is probably not somebody I need to listen to.


Oh, and I kind of figure that if you treat a horse a certain way for some period of time, and the result is a horse you are happy with, you can tell pretty much anybody to shove off if they have a problem with you.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> "He has to *earn* his treats!"
> 
> Yup, I came with a halter to pick him up for a ride, and he stuck his nose in it instead of walking away. He earned a treat.





mmshiro said:


> Oh, and I kind of figure that if you treat a horse a certain way for some period of time, and the result is a horse you are happy with, you can tell pretty much anybody to shove off if they have a problem with you.


Exactly, to both responses. My horse, my way.


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## AndalusionTales (Dec 25, 2018)

Yearlings usually learn their nipping manners by other horses in the herd. 

Look up Monty Roberts and Clinton Anderson horse trainers. They both have online websites and give wonderful info on starting goals. Clinton Anderson shows more about how to handle problems in horses.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Oops was born to us, and as friendly and curious a horse as you could ask for: But she's a dominant filly. I've let her get away with a lot of lipping and nuzzling because a horse's fingers are their nose. Any intentional application of teeth would get her driven away from me (out of the herd) until she was invited back in by me.


That worked for a long period of time. Late last summer she hit her obnoxious teenager stage (She is almost 3 now) and outright, with no warning, bit me on the left forearm when she got jealous of the attention I was paying Gina.


THAT time there was no way to bite back, not at the angle we were all three standing at, but my reaction was immediate, it was quick, and it was maybe too much in retrospect, but I snatched my arm away, and backhanded the the snot out of her muzzle... and immediately drove her away. 



The change in her was also immediate. She knew she'd gone too far and she apologized, asked to come back in to the herd, I let her. The only time she's done anything with her teeth since then was while she was guarding me in the pasture and I was on the ground, just watching Gods Geese on our pond. She thought it would be funny to tug my pony tail. I shhd and EHHH! No!'d her but didn't drive her away... and she stopped immediately and went back to napping while standing guard.


Will that work for you? IDK. But I feel like this one is pushing boundaries with you. I'd strongly advise you watch a group of mares and youngsters and see how they interact. They will tolerate the younger ones' foolishness until it escalates to actual biting or kicking, then they lower the boom on them. It's swift, it's force for force, then its over and everyone moves on.


I think he needs some manners, myself.


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## JerichoRyder (Feb 8, 2018)

@mmshiro Thanks for your input, you put in lot of very good tips!
Yes, we have used the sending away and lunge in response to the nipping over and over again. In some cases he responds with respect, in some cases he improves only for short periods of time. When I say nipping, he will actually clamp down and pinch purposefully on whatever surface he can get ahold of and then retreat quickly, knowing he's not supposed to.


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## JerichoRyder (Feb 8, 2018)

Thank you all for helping me and giving me kind advice😊 I will be sure to try to use the tips and knowledge yall have provided me! Sorry if my responses to this thread are a littlw messed up, I'm stull leanring how to use the forum!


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## JerichoRyder (Feb 8, 2018)

bsms said:


> I've got a half-mustang who is kind of like that. With him, it is not aggression. He uses his mouth to explore new things far more than the other horses I've owned. He's never made contact with his teeth. When leading him, he seems to do it for two reasons:
> 
> "Hey, did you see that over there?"
> 
> ...


 @bsms Thanks for your imput! I totally agree that sometimes the nipping is actully just playful mouthing with no intention to bite.... however this colt will intentionally clamp down on whatever surface he can get ahold of. He has left quite a few bruises on me from his nipping.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sounds like it's a game for him. You need to make the game not fun.

Don't lunge. By the time that's done you've moved on to the next thing. Any correction needs to meet the crime (in this case be unpleasant!) and immediate.


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## JerichoRyder (Feb 8, 2018)

Thank you! My trainer and I have both tried to catch his warning signs of biting and nipping but he will react so fast that there generally is no warning signs. He will be completely relaxed at one moment and then he will strike out to nip or bite you the next moment


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

JerichoRyder said:


> Thank you! My trainer and I have both tried to catch his warning signs of biting and nipping but he will react so fast that there generally is no warning signs. He will be completely relaxed at one moment and then he will strike out to nip or bite you the next moment


That's exactly how my filly was the couple of times she bit. Standing there chilling one second and then the next CHOMP. She got smacked hard. It seems that, when they are young, they forget and have to try you again. I would just keep on him about it. Give him a knuckle sandwich to take a bite out of.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I have a pony that nips. She's in her mid/late 20s and only nips if you let her. Typical pony. She had a problem when she came which as a btdt horse that knows her stuff stopped the second she realized we wouldn't be such easy an game. Before that I guess she had actually bitten a time or two! One thing she has caught me off guard with a time or two (like I said, typical pony SUPER smart and knows exactly what she can get away with and how to be evil) is she KNOWS not to nip, and won't unless you let her. But if I'm doing something she'll swing her head around and...sniff my pocket... after a time or two of doing that I felt little lips on my arm! Got after her but she tests me just by swinging her head around and ....sniffing. I don't scold her for that but we have a "you know I know you know I know" moment lol. So yes, some horses are naturally more mouthy and it's not something to flip on them for but it's not black and white of "good mouthy" and "bad mouthy". The grey area is the biggest part!


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Oh, my gosh! No, don’t lunge him for biting.....to little, too late. First, don’t tie him up to groom, etc. Hang the lead over your arm. If he tries to bite, immediately act like he tried to kill you. Yell ACCKK! Yank that lead rope hard a few times, back him up, and tell him, YOU shall NOT do that again!!,!” Be SURe you have your MEAN face on!

He won’t do it much after that. Keep your soft eye with your peripheral vision on him, and DONOT allow his head to swing while you are working with him.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

bsms said:


> I've got a half-mustang who is kind of like that. With him, it is not aggression. He uses his mouth to explore new things far more than the other horses I've owned. He's never made contact with his teeth. When leading him, he seems to do it for two reasons:
> 
> "Hey, did you see that over there?"
> 
> ...


 This sounds like my long yearling filly. She has to explore everything with her lips. A couple of times leading her out in the pasture and creek bottoms she has reached over and lipped my jacket sleeve, like you are describing "Hey look over here". I have corrected her several times but, she hasn't tried to bite only lip nibble. I've never had a horse that has done this. I even thought the same as others that she will out grow it. I have not gave her treats by had only thrown them in her feed dish but, the people I got her from did. When I scratch her head or under her chin she wants to lip my hand. I don't let her though as I've always been taught not to let them do this. You at least make me feel better knowing that others have this experience. Being a young horse I hope she out grows it. I have pulled her chin and chin hairs quite a bit but, she'll stop for a day or so then starts again. I've also done the "acck" jerked her lead and chased her back. Again worked for a couple days.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

ksbowman said:


> I don't let her though as I've always been taught not to let them do this.


I think it is worthwhile to think critically about everything we've been taught in the horse world, for two reasons: (1) We learn more about horses continuously, and (2) every horse is an individual. It's not like learning a fact about the combustion engine.

Yes, lipping can lead to biting, but only if there's something in it for the horse - if the original lipping leads to a reward. A horse owner may find it cute and interpret it as, "Come on, give us a treat!" That's a sure way to ask the horse to escalate next time because, well, he'll try to find the right answer to have a treat forthcoming. That's how we train them, don't we? 

If the horse just likes the texture of your shirt, then it will not escalate to biting. Just yesterday, I played with a horse in the arena. (He's off riding due to bruised feet.) When I pet him, he'll explore my gloved hands with his lips. When I got warm and took the gloves off and set them down, he still explored them with his lips. Neither action escalated.

Think critically about anything that starts with, "You always..." or "You never..." Why? Why not? What's the causal chain? "You *never* ... because it *may* ..." isn't sound reasoning. If it were, you'd never cross a street ever again.


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