# Do cowboys still use guns in their work this day and age?



## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I've gotten out of the habit, but I used to always ride with a .40 strapped to my leg. Snakes, coyote, feral dogs and feral people are out there...


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

Change said:


> I've gotten out of the habit, but I used to always ride with a .40 strapped to my leg. Snakes, coyote, feral dogs and feral people are out there...


I would ride with a gun (.38 special or .357 maybe) in a hip holster if I were a cowboy :cowboy: or a fanny pack if I were just a non-cowboy rider out in the boonies. There are bad people and bad animals in the world. 

The old cowboy guns were .45 Colt Peacemakers, single action. I'd have a stainless modern Colt double action to be prudent. I might also have a Winchester 30-30 saddle-ring carbine lever-action rifle in the scabbard. 

Real cowboys also wear ten-gallon hats, not helmets. I would expect to get laughed to high heaven :Angel: if I were to show up for a cowboy job sporting a fanny pack though.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

In Canada, it's illegal to carry a handgun. So you would have to have a scabbard & a rifle. Only hunters do that.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Depends on what your doing that day.

I've always wondered what a ten gallon hat is. I picture the character "Hoss" on the show Bonanza. He wore a hat with an open crown that made the hat look big.

I don't know what kind of gun is a "hog leg," either. I've heard that in old westerns.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

It wouldn't surprise me either way......around here a lot of trail riders carry guns! Not me, and I ride alone much of the time, but I've seen so many people '"packin" on a ride that it no longer surprises me. :shrug:


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Can't say about other areas but where I live...
The "cowboys" do indeed ride armed with a gun on hip.
Feral pig, coyotes, snake, alligator, bear and a host of other predators are not afraid of humans here, some will challenge.
Sorry, but riding with gun in fanny pack does you no good when you have to stop to unzip and retrieve...:icon_rolleyes:
Seconds count when you are confronted with a animal meaning to take you down.

Now, sadly I know there have been times they have had to shoot a cow in the field who had issues to severe and was suffering..._we don't do suffering. _
Suffering is ended as fast and painlessly as it can be accomplished...a gunshot and suffering has ended.

I don't know if rifles are also kept astride as a everyday tool...
I'm sure in certain areas and doing certain tasks they are present, just not sure it is a everyday-tool on hand here.
:runninghorse2:...


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

*Seconds count when you are confronted with a animal meaning to take you down.*


I've seen quite a few wild animals out riding and never felt threatened by ANY of them. Could it happen, sure. But I'm much more likely to die of cancer or a car wreck. I think the risk of wild animals is wayyyyyyyyy over-rated.

I've seen bears 3-4 times........they always ran. Now those are black bear, so grizzlies are probably a whole 'nother kettle of fish! But we don't have those in Arizona. 

I've seen badger, rattlesnakes, coyotes, deer, elk. 

I love to bugle for elk on horseback during the rut. Last year I was in a hunting store and when I asked the employee where the elk calls were and told him what I was doing he told me I was going to get "horned!" Well, anything is possible I suppose but I've been enjoying the rut by bugling for elk on horseback for 20 years now. :smile: Even the bulls, once they see you are not an elk, are out of there! I've had some cute little elk calves run up within about 20 feet of me though......at that point you are more worried about your horse spooking.

Rattlesnakes have such a bad wrap but I've never had one bother me and I've lived in Arizona my whole life. If you keep your hands out of dark places and keep your dogs away from them, they are generally no problem. They could bite if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time but generally they are peaceful creatures. I always thought it polite that they rattled......like "hey, I'm hear, don't step on me." Most snakes don't do that. 

Coyotes are pretty cool. I've had them "shadow me" and follow me on horseback and in the city I saw them following bicyclists. But never saw them as an actual threat. Now for sure they would go after calves or other small livestock. So for a cowboy they could be a problem......not for the cowboy but for his livestock.

No feral hogs or gators here, thank goodness.

I had a javelina circle around me and my horse once, grunting and breathing heavy. That was pretty creepy! Oddly, the horse didn't care. Which was great, because I was a bit worried about it! My Dad, who has hunted them, said their eyesight is poor and it probably had babies to protect. I rarely ever see javelina, and that was the most memorable encounter.


Anyway, the risk of wild animal attacks, at least in Arizona, are pretty remote. Driving a car is much more dangerous and people don't seem to worry much about that.


PS. I've never seen a live mountain lion, I would love to see one! Saw one that got hit by a car once and it was gorgeous.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

trailhorserider said:


> *Seconds count when you are confronted with a animal meaning to take you down.*
> 
> 
> I've seen quite a few wild animals out riding and never felt threatened by ANY of them. Could it happen, sure. But I'm much more likely to die of cancer or a car wreck. I think the risk of wild animals is wayyyyyyyyy over-rated.
> ...



Here feral pig is a big problem.
They rip apart livestock, will go after a horse or dog if they cross paths in some areas, more often than not.
When riding trails, we are very aware of the ground appearance around us and how our horses are acting...
When mine is antsy and jittery it is a justified warning to take notice..

Alligators...well, let us hope he is not in feeding mode or you have a very large and fast adversary chasing you down.

Coyotes...well, last weekend they challenged my neighbor in the pasture.
She pulled her gun and shot the ground in front of it and it took off...but it had a intent in mind with body posture it exhibited. She didn't want to hurt it as she also could see the young, "kits?" waiting a distance away...so looking for food to feed the family.

Snakes, I *don't* like snakes but they have a purpose here too.
If they leave me alone I do the same. If aggressive they _*will*_ pay the price...
And...my uncle was walking through his front-yard this past August...and was bit by a rattlesnake.
He lives in a housing development area...not acreage like me.
Never saw it, never heard it..but a strike.
He spent 5 days in the hospital and 2 units of anti-venom that I know of administered...he said it hurt like a son-of-a-gun.
I don't want to find out firsthand..._do be careful since rattlers are not just in dark places. 
_
Wildlife _are_ often more afraid or us than we are of them, but that one who is different is not the time you want to encounter and not be prepared to defend yourself...
It ultimately is your life at stake and that of your horse is mounted.
:runninghorse2:_..._


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The sheepherders on my friend's ranch in Utah insisted on being issued rifles after a cougar jumped and cut up a couple of their horses one night.


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## The Equinest (Dec 18, 2019)

Absolutely! Where I live you carry a gun anytime you're up in the mountains. We've gone hiking in the very foothills of the mountains before and come across wolves and mountain lion tracks before(Not to mention snakes! Those are everywhere.). My father always carried a pistol with him on his belt, and always kept one in the car whenever we went somewhere just in case. (In Montana it's legal to carry a firearm around w/o a concealed carry as long as it's clearly visible, not sure about other states.)

Most of the cowboys/cowgirls/ranchers I know always carry a gun up in the mountains. Even if it's not for protection - if an animal breaks a leg or injures itself beyond repair - it's better to have a gun than to not in those situations. All the range-riders I know usually carry pistols or a 22 as well during the summer while they're up in the hills.


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## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

I'll carry a gun when I get a concealed carry permit. There are hogs in my area, but when riding in the woods I've never had snakes or coyotes or anything bother me. We do have bears, bobcats, cougars, and things like that, but I've only ever seen a bobcat once and never a bear in our area. 

"Feral people" as someone said, would be my main concern. 




boots said:


> I don't know what kind of gun is a "hog leg," either. I've heard that in old westerns.


I'm pretty sure it's referring to a sawed off shotgun or rifle. The barrel is cut down so it can be worn like a pistol. It's still rather big and cumbersome compared to the colt peacemaker models common at the time, but a lot of "cool" characters in westerns seem to have them. 

Another similar term is "mare's leg", which was solely used to describe gun used by Steve McQueen's character in the western, "Wanted: Dead or Alive". It's actually a good show and I'm mad that it's not available on Amazon Prime.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

ChieTheRider said:


> I'll carry a gun when I get a concealed carry permit. There are hogs in my area, but when riding in the woods I've never had snakes or coyotes or anything bother me. We do have bears, bobcats, cougars, and things like that, but I've only ever seen a bobcat once and never a bear in our area.
> 
> "Feral people" as someone said, would be my main concern.
> 
> ...


Can you open carry in Florida?

If I were a cowboy I would have no problem with open hip-holster carry on private land or open range. The sight of a cowboy's sporting a gun rig is iconic.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

jonbailey said:


> I would ride with a gun (.38 special or .357 maybe) in a hip holster if I were a cowboy :cowboy: or a fanny pack if I were just a non-cowboy rider out in the boonies. There are bad people and bad animals in the world.
> 
> The old cowboy guns were .45 Colt Peacemakers, single action. I'd have a stainless modern Colt double action to be prudent. I might also have a Winchester 30-30 saddle-ring carbine lever-action rifle in the scabbard.
> 
> Real cowboys also wear ten-gallon hats, not helmets. I would expect to get laughed to high heaven :Angel: if I were to show up for a cowboy job sporting a fanny pack though.


I absolutely would never work for any rancher with a no-guns policy. If I were to own my own ranch, hired hands would be actually required to be armed on duty and trained to shoot and handle a gun safely as a condition for hire.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

boots said:


> Depends on what your doing that day.
> 
> I've always wondered what a ten gallon hat is. I picture the character "Hoss" on the show Bonanza. He wore a hat with an open crown that made the hat look big.
> 
> I don't know what kind of gun is a "hog leg," either. I've heard that in old westerns.


didn't cowboys use their hats upside down to let their horses drink out of it?


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

In my country it is forbidden, sadly. But I do ride with a fanny pack, lol.  The only big predator here is the wolf and I have never encountered one. We have one species of posionous snake and also never encountered one. The only nasty thing you can encounter are annoying people, but I hit them in the face whit my whip and fanny pack. Problem solved.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Jolien said:


> didn't cowboys use their hats upside down to let their horses drink out of it?


Why would they do that? If a cowboy can get water into a hat, a horse can reach down and get it. Letting a horse drink from onees hat does not happen.


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## 281187 (Sep 19, 2019)

boots said:


> Why would they do that? If a cowboy can get water into a hat, a horse can reach down and get it. Letting a horse drink from onees hat does not happen.


Your point definitely still stands, but I swear that I've seen at least one Western movie where the cowboy and his horse are walking through a desert, they stop to rest in some shade, the cowboy takes out his canteen, he takes a swig and then empties the rest into his hat so his horse can drink his fill. 

On another note, a gelding I used to ride actually knew how to drink out of a plastic bottle! I discovered that talent of his by accident one day, I was draining my water bottle dry after a long, hot ride and he nearly snatched it out of my hands! He'd use his upper lip to grab the bottle, grip it between his front teeth and then he would tip his head up and let the contents flow right down his throat! 

Apparently I wasn't the first person he'd done that to either and rumor had it that his previous owner's grandkids had trained him to do all sorts of tricks....


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

PahsimeroiFuzzy said:


> Your point definitely still stands, but I swear that I've seen at least one Western movie where the cowboy and his horse are walking through a desert, they stop to rest in some shade, the cowboy takes out his canteen, he takes a swig and then empties the rest into his hat so his horse can drink his fill.
> 
> On another note, a gelding I used to ride actually knew how to drink out of a plastic bottle! I discovered that talent of his by accident one day, I was draining my water bottle dry after a long, hot ride and he nearly snatched it out of my hands! He'd use his upper lip to grab the bottle, grip it between his front teeth and then he would tip his head up and let the contents flow right down his throat!.


Ok. In that case I could see it. 

I have had to dig a hole in spots where the ground was damp but the water essentially gone, but I did that with my boot heel.

I had a horse that liked apple cider. If I rode to the area cider mill for a cup of share with him. He'd bite the cup and raise his head. Spilled a lot. The family had a giant photo of him doing that in the mill.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've tried giving my horse water from my cowboy hat. An entire quart canteen of water doesn't fill a cowboy hat very far. To be honest...Mia slurped a little out, then sneezed boogers all over my hat. Nothing quite like putting a cowboy hat covered in horse boogers back on your head....

Haven't tried it since. YMMV.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I had a mare that would drink beer out of a bottle. She didn't mess with our soda tho. 

Tango tries to drink from my Gatorade bottles. He'll steal it if I set it down, but hasn't mastered the art of tilting it up to pour. ☺


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

Ever see true grit?? The 1847 colt walker she carrys in a bag is a "hog leg" 
A large caliber and long barrel. A very large pistol. 

Then there are Horse Pistols. a large pistol carried at the pommel of the saddle by a rider. 

A mares leg is a lever action rifle with the stock cut off after the lever and a barrel shorter than 16 inches. It is classified as a lever-action pistol. The latest one I have seen is made by Henry Rifle Co. and is a .410 gauge. So you basically have a .410 shotgun. and can shot any .410 ammo from bird shot to slugs to defensive loads that have flat copper discs and bird shot in one shell.

The price of .410 shells is more expensive than 12 gauge shells. almost double here.


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## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

jonbailey said:


> Can you open carry in Florida?


As far as I know, no. Unless you're hunting, obviously. Some people hunt with handguns I guess.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

In Kansas we have an open carry law and you can carry anytime as long as it is visible. As far as when riding a horse the answer is yes (usually a pistol), sometimes if I'm out checking pastures and cattle. With 4 wheeler I have a pistol and rifle on it all the time. The only way I will put cattle down is if I'm absolutely sure it will never get up again. Otherwise I will do everything in my power to keep it alive. Dead cattle equals no money. I have several neighbors that have trouble putting one down when necessary and I usually get called to be the "Angel of death" it is a necessary evil. As Far as hogs or coyotes I dispatch those regularly as they can be hard on livestock.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

boots said:


> Depends on what your doing that day.
> 
> I've always wondered what a ten gallon hat is. I picture the character "Hoss" on the show Bonanza. He wore a hat with an open crown that made the hat look big.
> 
> I don't know what kind of gun is a "hog leg," either. I've heard that in old westerns.



Ten gallon hat was the name folks used to jokingly refer to the large cowboy hats often worn by cowboys in the early western movies. Folks like Randolph Scott, and Hop-Along Cassidy. 

@boots also questioned the necessity of giving water to a horse from a hat. When I’ve seen it done in movies and TV, it was a desert scene and the water had to be poured from a canteen. 

My primary cavalry mount was the only horse I’ve ever seen that refused to drink from a natural water source. The only way I could get her to drink during rest stops in the field was from my hat. 

Hog leg is a slang term applied to the large cap and ball revolvers such as the Walker Colt. The original Walker Colt was so large and heavy that it was often carried in pommel holsters rather than on the hip. 

In modern slang, it generally refers to any large frame pistol, revolver or automatic. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Walker


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Too late to edit my previous post. 

It was the Colt Paterson revolver that was large and unwieldy. The Walker was an improvement on the design. 

You can see by the shape of it how it came by the nickname. 


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Paterson


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

I saved the top of a box that a Stetson hat came in with a picture of a rider giving his horse a drink from his Stetson. Title: Last drop from a Stetson.


On a difficult waterless ride on Hondo early on, I had a liter of water that I wasn't going to need. The urge struck me and I gave it to him out of my hat. He slurped up the last drop and seemed to really appreciate it.


Three of us met three other ranchers from a neighboring ranch to do a joint ride. All had catahoula dogs. The two groups began fighting almost immediately. A party from the other ranch pulled his gun and announce, "I'm gonna shoot". I didn't hear him but both Hondo and I heard the shot. Hondo did pretty well. The shot was in the air and the dogs stopped fighting and never started again. So that's one reason to pack.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Another bit on the 10 gallon hat. 

When I was a teen, we took our horses to the state fair to compete in the 4-H state championship. One day, I was walking the carnival parts of the fair. I payed to throw some balls at a clown in a dunking booth. This clowns gimmick was to hurl insults at anyone throwing balls trying to drop him into the water. 

I was never any good at throwing a ball, and the clown had a field day with me. I was dressed in my western outfit, including a big cowboy hat. 

The clown yelled “Hey! Where did you find a 10 gallon hat to fit your 20 gallon head?”

I thought it was hilarious, but I couldn’t let it stand. I went back to the family and recruited my younger brother. He didn’t care for horses, but he enjoyed going to the fair. He was also an all star little league baseball pitcher. 

I told him I’d pay for the balls for as long as he wanted to throw them. I stood behind my brother so the clown would know it was ME bankrolling the multiple dunkings he was getting. 

I used up most of my spending money, but it sure was fun.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

Jolien said:


> didn't cowboys use their hats upside down to let their horses drink out of it?


That is from an old Stetson ad.











"Ten Gallon" is from Tan Galon, which roughly translates from Spanish slang as stylish or sharp looking. 


We have cougars in some parts of Texas and they will attack horses and people. Not to mention feral mexican fighting bulls in South Texas, feral hogs, loads of rattle snakes, gators, coyotes and meth heads. Carrying is just smart.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

jgnmoose said:


> "Ten Gallon" is from Tan Galon, which roughly translates from Spanish slang as stylish or sharp looking.


I didn’t know that!

https://www.spanishdict.com/translate/tan galán


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^ The ad forgot to show what it looked like when he put the hat back on....:cheers:


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

trailhorserider said:


> *Seconds count when you are confronted with a animal meaning to take you down.*
> 
> 
> *I've seen quite a few wild animals out riding and never felt threatened by ANY of them. Could it happen, sure. But I'm much more likely to die of cancer or a car wreck. I think the risk of wild animals is wayyyyyyyyy over-rated.*
> .



You've never ran up on wild hogs have you? They don't take a lot of time to threat assess - they have horrible vision, but excellent sense of sight and smell - and if they think you're there to threaten them or their piglets, they'll attack first, ask questions later. They're getting brave enough to kill people in their own front yards now and I've had a boar square off with me and Trigger on the trail. I was really wishing I'd taken my husband's advice and carried my shotgun that day.

When my husband rides with me, he brings his Judge pistol. He wants me to start riding with my 12 gauge loaded with slugs - specifically for hogs.


In my area, both the ranch workers aka cowboys, and the trail riders, are usually carrying, simply because of the hogs. Big predators like coyotes, big cats like mountain lions, and bears are still too shy and in too few a number to jump a horse and rider. Hogs are a whole 'nuther story.


Aside from that... the ladies I ride with are always packing. I have my 12 gauge in my trailer... because we're not going to be attacked by anyone, or anything, in camp or on the trail without some serious retaliation. I'd rather have it with me and not need it, than need it and not have it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*MOD NOTE*

Some posts have been removed and some posts have been edited.

The question asked is OK and relevant but any comments, no matter how subtle or remote, that could turn the thread into a gun control debate will be removed.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

RegalCharm said:


> Ever see true grit?? The 1847 colt walker she carrys in a bag is a "hog leg"
> A large caliber and long barrel. A very large pistol.
> 
> Then there are Horse Pistols. a large pistol carried at the pommel of the saddle by a rider.
> ...



Also a gun that did not exist at all until Steve McQueen asked to have it made for a film and from what I understand, in reality, is not practical at all.


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## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Also a gun that did not exist at all until Steve McQueen asked to have it made for a film and from what I understand, in reality, is not practical at all.


I was watching the show yesterday and wondered how exactly he could be so fast with that thing...there's no way. Its probably one of those "cool" weapons that look good but are really dumb when it comes to actually using them. 

Now the Rifleman on the other hand...I wonder if his gun would be practical? It still wouldn't be as fast as a pistol in real life probably.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

ChieTheRider said:


> I was watching the show yesterday and wondered how exactly he could be so fast with that thing...there's no way. Its probably one of those "cool" weapons that look good but are really dumb when it comes to actually using them.
> 
> Now the Rifleman on the other hand...I wonder if his gun would be practical? It still wouldn't be as fast as a pistol in real life probably.



I've kinda read up on them Mare's Legs... most forums where people have actually owned or used one say there's absolutely no reason to have one, other than Because it's Cool. It's no faster than a pistol to draw and shoot, and may in fact be SLOWER... and frankly, personally, if I wanted a gun that's cut down to a nub from the original, it's not going to be a rifle (because a pistol would be more practical) Gimme a sawed off scattah gun. (Scatter gun... aka shotgun).


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

bsms said:


> The sheepherders on my friend's ranch in Utah insisted on being issued rifles after a cougar jumped and cut up a couple of their horses one night.


In spite of the _Cowboy Andy_ book author's not liking guns, and association of them with criminal elements, I bet at least 75% of all cattlemen, farmers and sheepmen in America have at least one rifle, handgun or shotgun. The woman who wrote that fiction kiddie book probably watched too many cowboy films and associated guns with pistol dueling, bank robberies, stagecoach robberies, train robberies and gunfights. 

I can't fancy any agrarian (rustic) in America to be not armed and I'm all in favor of being armed for law-abiding purposes.

Cowboys, guns, ten-gallon hats, high-heeled pointed boots, chaps, silver spurs, horses, rotgut and rattlesnakes seem to all go together.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

boots said:


> Why would they do that? If a cowboy can get water into a hat, a horse can reach down and get it. Letting a horse drink from onees hat does not happen.



an act of love?  To share water from their bottles with the horse? I don't know?  I read this once in a book and I found it romantic


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

jonbailey said:


> In spite of the _Cowboy Andy_ book author's not liking guns, and association of them with criminal elements, I bet at least 75% of all cattlemen, farmers and sheepmen in America have at least one rifle, handgun or shotgun. The woman who wrote that fiction kiddie book probably watched too many cowboy films and associated guns with pistol dueling, bank robberies, stagecoach robberies, train robberies and gunfights.
> 
> I can't fancy any agrarian (rustic) in America to be not armed and I'm all in favor of being armed for law-abiding purposes.
> 
> Cowboys, guns, ten-gallon hats, high-heeled pointed boots, chaps, silver spurs, horses, rotgut and rattlesnakes seem to all go together.


That may be true, I think many people have a warped sense of what those things are and how people live thanks to books and movies. Some of the worst come from Hallmark type movies. Literally unwatchable. 

Like everything else, real life is a lot more complicated.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

jonbailey said:


> Cowboys, *spaghetti westerns*, guns, ten-gallon hats, high-heeled pointed boots, chaps, silver spurs, horses, rotgut and rattlesnakes seem to all go together.



Honestly the only laughable thing about that list, around here, is the big silly cowboy hats and the ridiculous fancy boots... 



Side note: There's LOT of westerns from the 50s, 60s, even up into the 90s... that show cowboys riding on modern roping saddles that were current to the era the film was made in, rather than being historically accurate, or even close to accurate.  They didn't even try - mostly because the budget for the film just wasn't there. 



I always get a kick out of seeing films that feature ancient Greeks or Romans riding with stirrups or modern snaffle bits.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Honestly the only laughable thing about that list, around here, is the big silly cowboy hats and the ridiculous fancy boots...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apparently a lot of them used black and white stock action footage that was edited into the film. As in professional stunt studios would go film a scene and then sell it to a studio making a movie. 

One of the reasons the Western movies almost disappeared overnight when movies in color became standard from what I hear. 

As for hats and boots, we can spot fakes and wannabes instantly. If a guy wants to wear a 5" brim and pointy boots shotgunned in his jeans that go up to the knee he better be a real deal cow puncher from serious ranch we've all heard of.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> You've never ran up on wild hogs have you?



Nope, no wild hogs here! 

Are they good eating? I guess not or they would just encourage people to fill their freezers? Or do they just reproduce so fast no one can keep up with them?


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

trailhorserider said:


> Nope, no wild hogs here!
> 
> Are they good eating? I guess not or they would just encourage people to fill their freezers? Or do they just reproduce so fast no one can keep up with them?


They can be decent, I've had it cooked like a regular pig and it was okay.

Yep, they reproduce very fast. It is basically compound math at this point. Would have to kill loads of them to make a serious dent in the problem.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Honestly the only laughable thing about that list, around here, is the big silly cowboy hats and the ridiculous fancy boots...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The majority of people watching these things are not horse people so they wouldn't know what is historically correct or not for tack and saddles. 

A cowboy saddle to me looks like a cowboy saddle. It has to have that horn to dally the rope. That's all I know.

When I was a boy, I thought a MANGER was the building (barn, stable) where Jesus Christ was born. My mother said at Christmastime we were going to the hometown nativity scene with baby Jesus in the manger. I had assumed all along that the overhang thing at the holidays exhibit with statues and farm animals was _the manger_. When a woman at church reading the bible said a few years later that Christ's mother had wrapped him in swaddling cloth and laid him *in a manger* I still envisioned that little animal barn in my mind with the sheep, wise men and donkey. It wasn't until I met a former horse person who hired me for landscaping work 16 years ago in Idaho that I even found out what DALLY meant or what a MANGER really was. Yes, Our Lord supposedly had an animal feed dish for a bed as an infant. How humble as if being born in a cold barn at night wasn't humble enough!


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

jgnmoose said:


> Apparently a lot of them used black and white stock action footage that was edited into the film. As in professional stunt studios would go film a scene and then sell it to a studio making a movie.
> 
> One of the reasons the Western movies almost disappeared overnight when movies in color became standard from what I hear.
> 
> As for hats and boots, we can spot fakes and wannabes instantly. If a guy wants to wear a 5" brim and pointy boots shotgunned in his jeans that go up to the knee he better be a real deal cow puncher from serious ranch we've all heard of.



Heh. I've seen dudes try to wear skinny jeans and cowboy boots. I'm like... you just borrowed those boots from your room mate, didn't you, bruh?


There's a ranch somewhere near here and for the life of me I can't remember the name of it - but you know their top hands when they come to town. They're all in stove pipe boots with the jeans tucked in, spurs, chaps, wild rag around the neck, a Wyoming type cowboy hat (Big brim, turkey feather in the hat band), and a leather vest over their pearl snap shirts. And them boys are the real deal too. They just don't dress like any other cowboy around here, so I suspect they moved down here from up north to work on the ranch specifically FOR the owner of the ranch (As in it's probably a winter-over ranch here for someone from Montana or Wyoming and they sent their top hands down along with the cattle). Our local guys just wear square toed boots with a regular top on them, jeans are usually outside unless it's super wet and muddy, then they're tucked into the boots, regular wranglers, a pearl snap, and an insulated vest in the winter or a carhart jacket... leggings or chaps are reserved for rodeos. The bigger hats are catching on though.


But yeah, we can spot a poser from a mile away.


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

The farm animals at the nativity scene were LIVE but the people were fake.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

trailhorserider said:


> Nope, no wild hogs here!
> 
> Are they good eating? I guess not or they would just encourage people to fill their freezers? Or do they just reproduce so fast no one can keep up with them?



As @*jgnmoose* said: They can be decent. Younger the better... those that reach sexual maturity usually taste pretty strong... though they do make really good sausage at any age. I've had pork chops cut from a pork loin that came off an older young hog, and they tasted amazing - more flavor than store bought, not strong at all, and tasted cleaner. 



Also as JG said - we're now looking at an explosive population growth in Texas and Oklahoma. I think it's too far gone now to kill them all, to be frank. At least with conventional methods like open season hunting or trapping. There's just too many of them, and they get wise to trapping and the places where people will shoot at them and just leave and go somewhere else - like a national forest or grassland where hunters aren't allowed. They will eat anything on the ground - young fawns, ground nesting birds, eggs, baby bunnies... anything they can get in their mouths, they'll eat it. They are also destroying grassland areas by rooting enormous areas - all the prairie grass is gone and nothing but muddy piles left. Natural meadows and hay meadows will look like you took a tractor and disked (or plowed) everything under. IIRC, they're also driving out or killing off the native pigs... javelinas and razorbacks in Oklahoma and Arkansas (Not sure about Texas).


The first time I camped and rode at Coffee Mill, we heard turkeys going to roost and waking up, every morning. Lots of whippoorwills, heard some quail. The last time we went? The woods were absolutely silent except for hog grunting and then the coyotes firing up when the moon came up. I really, really missed hearing the ground bird calls.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

jonbailey said:


> The majority of people watching these things are not horse people so they wouldn't know what is historically correct or not for tack and saddles.
> 
> A cowboy saddle to me looks like a cowboy saddle. It has to have that horn to dally the rope. That's all I know.


.


And Hollywood knows this, or maybe... doesn't know or doesn't care. Or didn't. They're doing better these days though.


Will Ghormley makes some saddles for Hollywood, and he's done a lot of research on how to recreate a historical look in a modern saddle. I just love what he does, and his site has a lot of interesting information on the evolution of the American style of western saddle, also samples of his other leather work for various popular westerns made since the 90s.


Once you've seen what the real deal should look like, the anachronisms are easy to spot.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_Once you've seen what the real deal should look like, the anachronisms are easy to spot._"

So are the saddles under the blankets when the Indians are riding "bareback" with stirrups peeking out from under the blanket...

But there was also some great stunt riding, and some of the old western stars were genuinely good riders.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

bsms said:


> "_Once you've seen what the real deal should look like, the anachronisms are easy to spot._"
> 
> So are the saddles under the blankets when the Indians are riding "bareback" with stirrups peeking out from under the blanket...
> 
> But there was also some great stunt riding, and some of the old western stars were genuinely good riders.



Some were riders and cowboys before they were in Hollywood. 


Others... *coughJohnWaynecough* were allergic to horses or didn't like horses at all.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

John Wayne didn't LIKE horses, but he was a decent rider. Grew up riding them, too. Had some on a ranch he owned and rode them, sometimes. He did at least some cowboy work before becoming a movie star:

“I was hired on as an assistant for a George O’Brien western (I was actually hired as an actor but it was understood I would act as an Assistant – a scrounger, today they would call them a location manager). One of my jobs was to get 400 head of cattle into Blue Canyon which was 150 miles from any paved road. A preacher who had a little church on the Hopi reservation agreed to help me gather them. In gathering those cattle, we horsebacked into Monument Valley. … It was during the making of this picture, in which I was assistant as well as riding in the posse, that I personally rode through Monument Valley.” The film was 1930’s Lone Star Ranger. [Tim Lilley, The Big Trail, Vol VI, No 1, June 1989]

But...if given a choice, he preferred night clubs to riding horses.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

bsms said:


> John Wayne didn't LIKE horses, but he was a decent rider. Grew up riding them, too. Had some on a ranch he owned and rode them, sometimes. He did at least some cowboy work before becoming a movie star:
> 
> “I was hired on as an assistant for a George O’Brien western (I was actually hired as an actor but it was understood I would act as an Assistant – a scrounger, today they would call them a location manager). One of my jobs was to get 400 head of cattle into Blue Canyon which was 150 miles from any paved road. A preacher who had a little church on the Hopi reservation agreed to help me gather them. In gathering those cattle, we horsebacked into Monument Valley. … It was during the making of this picture, in which I was assistant as well as riding in the posse, that I personally rode through Monument Valley.” The film was 1930’s Lone Star Ranger. [Tim Lilley, The Big Trail, Vol VI, No 1, June 1989]
> 
> But...if given a choice, he preferred night clubs to riding horses.



He was quite the guy, wasn't he? My husband isn't the type to hero-worship anyone, but he'll freely tell anyone John Wayne IS his hero.

He was also the looker as a young man too. Grrr


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## jonbailey (May 7, 2018)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> He was quite the guy, wasn't he? My husband isn't the type to hero-worship anyone, but he'll freely tell anyone John Wayne IS his hero.
> 
> He was also the looker as a young man too. Grrr


That picture's no doubt the sexiest The Duke ever looked, Pilgrim!
For all I know, he could be a young stud in an early 1960's rock band.
He's got the curly/wavy hair comb that would make any young girl swoon.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Our local guys just wear square toed boots with a regular top on them, jeans are usually outside unless it's super wet and muddy, then they're tucked into the boots, regular wranglers, a pearl snap, and an insulated vest in the winter or a carhart jacket... leggings or chaps are reserved for rodeos. The bigger hats are catching on though..


Bigger hats are definitely in down here. My 12 yr old wanted a 4 1/2" brim dang near flat. They call it a "Cool Hand Luke", and apparently I am too old to be cool enough to pull it off. 

My Papa said that the outside of your jeans meant you had 50 cattle. The inseam of your jeans meant 100. And a man with his jeans tucked all the way inside his boots either is a top hand or needs his butt kicked.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

I just now realized where you be, @jgnmoose! You're not that far from me.


Also, my husband bought one of those big country cowboy hats the year we made the road trip to Jackson, Wyoming. He wears the HECK out of it.

I need to find him a turkey feather to tuck into the hat band.

But for date night, he's pulling out the 30 year old straw Resistol (summer) or the silverbelly or his black felt Stetson (Cattleman style). I prefer the black one on him.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

trailhorserider said:


> Are they good eating? I guess not or they would just encourage people to fill their freezers? Or do they just reproduce so fast no one can keep up with them?



Open season here on hogs...year round they are so numerous and a detriment to livestock, the grazing lands and dangerous.
They reproduce so quickly...
One momma may have 20 babies....and they all survive, then they reproduce same as momma.
Then realize that there may be 100 pigs running wild, most of them females...or more.
Yes, it is a _*big*_ problem.
Common to hit them roadside as they are not very smart it seems and run in front of cars often...easy meal found if you didn't wreck your car...:icon_rolleyes:

Guys my husband works with pig hunt.
They swear the meat is delicious. 
Different tasting than what you buy commercially and no human drugs, vaccines or anything...these animals root for their food and eat only what nature provides.
Pigs are varying weight, some only a hundred pounds once dressed, but others could be as much as 300 pounds...what hubby has been told.
We don't hunt...


Not had a roast or ham _yet_, some I know are still in a smoker and I asked for a piece to try when they eat it for dinner.
Hoping you are right about taste Atoka.... 
I had homemade sausage that was incredible and I DO NOT eat sausage...this I devoured it was so good!!
If smoked or fresh roast is as good as the sausage, they may not get rid of me easily...inviting myself to the table meal I will. :lol:
Hadn't even thought about chops...will have to ask. :smile:
:runninghorse2:...


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

John Wayne never made a movie I didn't like. The night before my oldest daughter was born we went to the drive-in and saw Big Jake. My favorites are The Cowboys, True Grit and The 3 Godfathers. Oh hell, I like em all. My favorite straw hat Chris Le Doux signed in a little bar he was singing at, man he hit some dives and put on a great show. The bar was so small the band was only about 10' away. My favorite wool felt has a fairly straight brim with a small dip in the front and back. By the way the year my wife and I were horse barn managers at our county fair Garth Brooks sang. The stage was in the rodeo arena and the were so few people there he invited everyone down to gather around his "stage" and we were about 20-30' away. Only hit he had the was " Much too young to feel this darn old". Great show! We saw him several times after that but, they were all sell out shows.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Here is two boars fighting over a sow at one of my favorite deer stands on our place. The sow is laying down behind them if you look close.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> Open season here on hogs...year round they are so numerous and a detriment to livestock, the grazing lands and dangerous.
> They reproduce so quickly...
> One momma may have 20 babies....and they all survive, then they reproduce same as momma.
> Then realize that there may be 100 pigs running wild, most of them females...or more.
> ...



Oh, they're smart, make no mistake. It's open season here too - but they get wise to which property owners will allow hunters or will shoot at them, or set out traps... so they just move to another location... Like a state park or a national forest or grassland where hunting ANYTHING is either not allowed at all, or a very very limited season. 

We've a friend that traps as a hobby - and he has invested thousands of dollars into a mobile trap with surveillance cameras and remote operation - he can watch the streaming video of the trap, wait until the maximum amount of hogs have walked in, and push a button to drop the gate on it. As huge as his trap is, some can still bolt out under the gate before it can hit the ground. I think it's a half second that it takes them to cover several feet to just get their head under it, stop it from falling, then escape. It's absolutely insane how fast these hogs can move a short distance.


Whatever doesn't get out before the gate drops gets shot and killed once he gets there.


I think the car issue is they have terrible eye sight but heightened sense of smell and hearing. I am guessing they just can't judge the distance x speed of a moving car and get shellacked. The damage to a car is incredible.


And like I said: I've only had the pork loin chops once in my life... and it was amazing. It's my barrel racer camping friend that has the breakfast sausage. I've not tried it yet, she swears it's delicious and she's usually right, so I'm taking her word for it.


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## Bombproof (May 20, 2015)

In my experience, working cowboys almost always have a firearm close at hand if not actually on their person. The odds of needing it are pretty small, but if you do need it, no help is coming for a long time. Feral hogs weren't a thing yet when I moved out of Oklahoma but feral dogs were very common and they can be extremely dangerous because they don't have any fear of humans. Venomous snakes are always a consideration as well. Given the opportunity, they will almost always slither away but sometimes they're where you need to be. I've had the experience of finding a rattlesnake coiled up against the post I needed to reattach a wire to. On the ranch I also shot armadillos on sight. My father lost a good horse to a shattered leg after stepping in an armadillo hole. I get it -- armadillos have a right to exist but not where they threaten my livelihood. I had a few encounters with poachers and illegal fishermen and while none of them got very hostile, I feel better knowing that at least I have a chance if they are belligerent. On a ranch in rural Oklahoma law enforcement will get there in an hour or so if you're lucky, assuming they can even find you, never mind that you may not have cell phone coverage and have no way to call them. Similarly, if you're snakebitten or attacked by a dog medical care is a looooong time away. I take fewer chances with wildlife under those circumstances and I'm a little more prone to shoot when I wouldn't if I were in my back yard. In my experience, most ranchers and working cowboys have a similar mindset.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Someone in our group always carried a handgun or rifle. Why? When you're 40 miles from anywhere, a gun to put down a mortally injured horse can save a lot of grief. It can also serve to signal your location, and to hunt game if you get into trouble. When my tough as nails farrier tearfully described having to put down her best horse by cutting his throat with a dull pocket knife when he slipped and fell down a ravine and broke both front legs, you'll take a humane and quick way of putting down a horse in an emergency with you after that. 

We never worried too much about bears. Black bears will usually run off and the horses barely noticed them anyway. If you make noise and aren't stupid, you can usually keep from meeting a grizzly. If you see a mountain lion, he's not hunting you. Your biggest threat are moose, wild hogs, feral dogs, and other people. 

Do you need one often? No. But if you're going to be a long way from help and know how to safely use and handle one, it's not a bad idea.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Bombproof said:


> In my experience, working cowboys almost always have a firearm close at hand if not actually on their person. The odds of needing it are pretty small, but if you do need it, no help is coming for a long time. Feral hogs weren't a thing yet when I moved out of Oklahoma but feral dogs were very common and they can be extremely dangerous because they don't have any fear of humans. *Venomous snakes are always a consideration as well. Given the opportunity, they will almost always slither away *but sometimes they're where you need to be. I've had the experience of finding a rattlesnake coiled up against the post I needed to reattach a wire to. On the ranch *I also shot armadillos on sight. *My father lost a good horse to a shattered leg after stepping in an armadillo hole. I get it -- armadillos have a right to exist but not where they threaten my livelihood.* I had a few encounters with poachers and illegal fishermen *and while none of them got very hostile, I feel better knowing that at least I have a chance if they are belligerent. *On a ranch in rural Oklahoma law enforcement will get there in an hour or so if you're lucky, assuming they can even find you, never mind that you may not have cell phone coverage and have no way to call them.* Similarly, if you're snakebitten or attacked by a dog medical care is a looooong time away. I take fewer chances with wildlife under those circumstances and I'm a little more prone to shoot when I wouldn't if I were in my back yard. In my experience, most ranchers and working cowboys have a similar mindset.



Cottonmouths are the ones that concern me the most. In wet areas around trails, they'll be camped out, warning us as we ride by - coiled, head up, mouth open to display that white mouth and fangs... one wrong move and they'll not be content to just warn - they'll actually attack.


Armadillos - I have never in my life wanted to shoot one so much as I did a couple of weekends ago. Seems like we saw at least a half dozen, every ride out, and in the middle of the day (They're usually nocturnal). Sorry suckers looked like giant roley-poley bugs, rooting around like pigs, and then they'd realize we'd walked up on them and they'd jump straight up and then bolt out across our paths. ALL the horses were already on high alert - lots of predator sign every single day we rode. They had trouble holding it together when the dillos would freak out because of the very fresh (Often just minutes old) bobcat, coyote, and hog sign.

Feral Humans - it's not unheard of for there to be very unsavory, very dangerous people doing very illegal things in the deep woods and on ranches too large for the owners to patrol every acre of them here in Oklahoma. I can remember in the 80s and 90s (And probably the 70s) the patches of marijuana were heavily guarded, well concealed, and might even be rigged with booby traps learned by Vietnam vets... they brought the knowledge home with them. You could stumble into a patch, MAYBE ON YOUR OWN LAND and get very seriously hurt. Weed is less of an issue these days, and meth labs are usually not out in the rural areas, but it can happen. I'd rather have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it.

LEOs in Oklahoma... or N. Texas - you may indeed wait 45 - 55 minutes for help to arrive. Mostly because some counties are so big, and the areas you ride so remote, it may take that long to get to you, and yes - that's if you even have a way to call out. Most of the places I camp aren't that far off the beaten path (A few miles, no more), and yet? No signal. It's infuriating. I'm going to look into getting a signal booster on my trailer for just that reason.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

I carry a gun when I ride. I live in a very rural mountain area and we have wolves, cougars, black and grizzly bears, and moose, as well as the occasional meth heads and people doing other illegal drug trade stuff from time to time up in the mountains where they figure no one will find them. 

I carry a 454 Casull with a short barrel (2.5") or a 45 Colt with a 4.5" barrel that has a special custom frame and cylinder that allow me to hand load ammo for it that exceeds 44 Magnum pressures so it basically amounts to a 454 Casull special if there was such a thing. I use the same 325 grain hard cast slug in both of them. So far I have only shot a bear once with this setup, it worked and his fur is now a table covering in my living room. I shot it dead center of its chest and it was close enough that the muzzle blast burned the hair around the entrance hole away.

The thing you need to remember about carrying a gun is it does nobody any good if you can't hit anything with it so you need to practice every week with it. During the summer months I often shoot as many as 200 rounds per week out of the Casull and 45 Colt, less in winter because my shop is heated by a wood stove and I have to get it cranking pretty good so it is comfortable for me to reload out there so I reload less and shoot less in winter. I cast my own bullets as well so this and reloading saves me a ton of money on shooting and practice.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

AndyTheCornbread said:


> I carry a gun when I ride. I live in a very rural mountain area and we have wolves, cougars, black and grizzly bears, and moose, as well as the occasional meth heads and people doing other illegal drug trade stuff from time to time up in the mountains where they figure no one will find them.
> 
> I carry a 454 Casull with a short barrel (2.5") or a 45 Colt with a 4.5" barrel that has a special custom frame and cylinder that allow me to hand load ammo for it that exceeds 44 Magnum pressures so it basically amounts to a 454 Casull special if there was such a thing. I use the same 325 grain hard cast slug in both of them. So far I have only shot a bear once with this setup, it worked and his fur is now a table covering in my living room. I shot it dead center of its chest and it was close enough that the muzzle blast burned the hair around the entrance hole away.
> 
> *The thing you need to remember about carrying a gun is it does nobody any good if you can't hit anything with it so you need to practice every week with it.* During the summer months I often shoot as many as 200 rounds per week out of the Casull and 45 Colt, less in winter because my shop is heated by a wood stove and I have to get it cranking pretty good so it is comfortable for me to reload out there so I reload less and shoot less in winter. I cast my own bullets as well so this and reloading saves me a ton of money on shooting and practice.



Also, if you aren't willing to carry it loaded. I confess to NOT loading my 12 gauge at camp sometimes.



My husband: You know what an unloaded shotgun really is?


Answer: A brick.


Moral of the story - I keep it loaded once I roll into camp now, and unload it when I pack up to head home.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

We have a shooting range in the backyard. Serves a dual purpose: keeps us proficient and the horses are used to the noise.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

Change said:


> We have a shooting range in the backyard. Serves a dual purpose: keeps us proficient and the horses are used to the noise.


Same here, I have a 100 yard range off the front deck to a burm I had a friend with a cat put up for me. I have my targets on a rack out on that berm and then another 50 yard burm closer to the house. My horses don't even lift their heads many times now days when I start shooting.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

AndyTheCornbread said:


> Same here, I have a 100 yard range off the front deck to a burm I had a friend with a cat put up for me. I have my targets on a rack out on that berm and then another 50 yard burm closer to the house. My horses don't even lift their heads many times now days when I start shooting.


Mine will startle at the first report, and look. The it's total nonchalance, even when my son fires off 20-30 rounds from the AK. Sometimes my gelding will come to the fence closest to where we shoot just to watch. I've been tempted to try mounted shooting on him, but don't want to invest in the guns. 😉


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

AndyTheCornbread said:


> Same here, I have a 100 yard range off the front deck to a burm I had a friend with a cat put up for me. I have my targets on a rack out on that berm and then another 50 yard burm closer to the house. My horses don't even lift their heads many times now days when I start shooting.


 That's funny I too have a range to shoot pistols and rifle sight-ins. When I start shooting the horses come over to the closest place and watch. The cattle will come up and gather around me watching too. The gun fire doesn't bother any of them.


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

Here in NZ we have no predatory animals therefore theoretically no reason to be packing. Handguns are illegal over here for the most part but recreational hunting and culling are common and popular. 



There have been a couple of occasions when I have wished I had taken my husbands advice and organized myself a scabbard to carry a nice little carbine when out riding. I never go out riding without carrying a good sharp knife, there has been more than one occasion when I have found myself having to end the suffering of an animal that I have come across. And more than one occasion where I have had to leave them because I simply could not get to them with my knife and wished I had a rifle.


We too do a lot of shooting (my husband is famous for it) and any horse I have very quickly gets use to the report of a rifle. We have a shooting range that extends out to 1100 yards, just behind our house and we are shooting the big calibers often. My husband was shooting a .500 A-Square out the back and little miss Applebee jumped a little at the first shot and then barely lifted her head for the successive ones and that is a heck of a bang!


It is hard to look good in cowboy attire here in NZ - not being a cowboy nation it is very difficult to not look like a poser. A bit like a middle American teen age boy getting Maori Tribal tattoos because they look cool lol.


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