# Conformation Critique



## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Justus is a coming 6 year old Appaloosa/Mustang X Welsh Pony mare, wanting an overall critique but please go gentle on her  These pictures are from 2009 and I'm sorry I don't have better ones yet but will take some proper confo shots after the weekend! Thank you!






























I'll get some confo shots this weekend, but here's a video of our first dressage test last fall, gentle critique please! Moving to a dressage based barn next month and will be setting up some lessons, taking Justus to a dressage clinic in May as well. 

So looking for a general confo critique and what potential you think she may have in dressage  Thanks!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think she is very cute and compact. She looks like one of those mustangs that have draft in them, from intentional releases of draft stallions into mustange territory in past years.

Her only real "flaw" is her short neck and thick throatlatch. It will make it harder for her to flex at the poll , but judging from the photos, she is doing pretty good already. Would love to see the video of your test.


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## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

I agree with the first poster. I really like her strong, short back and her clean legs and nicely sloping shoulder. Her hoof and pastern angles looks good, with the pasterns having adequate length. For dressage, her short neck and thick throatlatch may inhibit her ability to move up the levels, but she looks overall like a nice all-around horse that will be sound and healthy for years to come.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Sorry! I forgot to post the link!




 
Thanks for the replies so far


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I agree with everyone else. LOVE her


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Thank you! Heading out to see her tomorrow, will take confo pics and get them up early next week. Other than short neck and thick throatlatch, anything you see that may hold her back?

I noticed over the last year she's notorious for sucking behind the bit to give the appearance of a nice, round headset, but she's barely on a contact at all and faking it so been reschooling her with a coach since October and she's getting better bending laterally and actually GIVING instead of faking! Ha, we're getting better! Here's an example from last spring:










What kind of exersizes would you suggest to practise bending at the poll to loosen her up, build proper topline muscles, and get her to flex? Also hoping to school her over some crossrails and small jumps this coming summer, here are some freejumping/lunging shots:

2009 Summer









2010 Spring
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz134/Picture*****z/Jumping/a11007.jpg

Thanks again, will get new pics up asap!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Agh she looks much worse in the recent pics, sorry. 

You are focusing way too much on a headset and not enough on self carriage which is far more than a headset. Your first pic in the last set you posted is not good at all.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Oh yes I agree! That one is from LAST March...we've only been working with a coach since October! I'm asking for suggestions on how to ask her to reach down instead of tuck IN. I'm well aware that what she's doing in that picture is not desirable, that wasn't the question - any ideas how to ask her to move ON the bit?


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for understanding and not getting defensive. Got any recent pics?


How much work did you do in the side reins? The pics that you posted all involve getting her into a head set other than the jumping pics.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Sadly I don't - most recent was the dressage test I posted a link for earlier, but even that was from October, when I STARTED with lessons. She's improved since in lateral flexion and relaxation, but have yet to ask her to bring herself down and round more without her trying to tuck in. Not sure if that made sense? Ha, will get some pictures tomorrow for you to see her now 

I did some work in sidereins when she was 4 years old, a bit last fall, and starting again this month. Only 5-10 minutes each way to warm her up, but I've found it very beneficial in getting her to focus instead of plodding along! She uses the sidereins alot different now than she used to, she used to tuck behind the bit with them on too, now she's lowering her head INTO the bit so I feel they're helping greatly! 

By "work in sidereins" I mean w/t/halt transitions and very basic stuff  Learning how to use them myself so they're typically more slack than they should be and I don't push her with them on, have yet to ask her to canter with them. That being said, my best friend has used them MANY times before on various horses and has been helping me learn thus far.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I am not anti side reins at all, I have used them on my horse, but as your horse over bends, I would not use them ever. 

Your whip should make her move forward on the lunge.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Without them she barely bends at all - not nose in the air or anything, but head up and barely pays attention. New pictures will definitely help the subject -these one's are much to old for carriage critique, was looking more for a confo critique and based on that, what other members feel her potential may be regarding dressage. Thanks!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

EveningShadows said:


> *what other members *feel her potential may be regarding dressage.


Then I will shut up.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

I meant other than myself, not other than you...I'm open to all suggestions.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

What level of dressage do you want to do?


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Right now, attempting to get better at basic walk/trot tests for fun shows. Wanting proper bend, flexion, relaxation, and cooperation! She's a very willing pony, but with very little dressage experience, I'm looking for exersizes to help loosen her up and relax her. Will be starting lessons next month when we switch barns, looking forward to that! But any suggestion are more than welcome!


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Forward, Forward and Forward.........the more forward you can ride the more she is going to stretch down and out.....and when she is going forward and reaching that is the time to take a little contact.......you having nothing unless you have forward.


BTW I really like her......she has a thick throat latch and a short thick neck so that will make flexion a little more difficult both from the poll and the neck.

Super Nova


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Thank you Super Nova - this is the kind of advise I was hoping for! Should I be pretty much doing away with the contact until I can get a strong forward movement? I understand impulsion is most important, and when I give her her head she does move out more freely, but when I take up the slack she automatically slows a bit and sucks back. 

VERY excited for lessons next month - got the new pictures at the barn today but have to borrow a friend's computer tomorrow to upload them! Sorry!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

AlexS said:


> Agh she looks much worse in the recent pics, sorry.
> 
> You are focusing way too much on a headset and not enough on self carriage which is far more than a headset. Your first pic in the last set you posted is not good at all.


I agree with this totally.



EveningShadows said:


> I'm asking for suggestions on how to ask her to reach down instead of tuck IN. I'm well aware that what she's doing in that picture is not desirable, that wasn't the question - any ideas how to ask her to move ON the bit?


The problem is you first want to teach her to reach for the bit and take it. Forget about the tucking in part until you have her wanting to take the bit.
Again, you have worked too hard on getting a 'head set' and not enough on the horse carrying itself.

In the posted video the has her head set but she is inverted through her back and is not even coming close to tracking up from behind.




AlexS said:


> I am not anti side reins at all, I have used them on my horse, but as your horse over bends, I would not use them ever.
> 
> Your whip should make her move forward on the lunge.


This.

You have trained yourself into a corner. It is really hard once you have a horse that gets behind the bit to avoid it.

No side reins, no draw reins, etc.

Teach her to move forward off your leg and up into the bit.

Hopefully your instructor has been working on this with you.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

AlwaysBehind - you completely missed everything I've said. I understand that what Justus is doing is undesirable. I'm asking how to correct it and forward movement seems to be the general consensus. I also stated that I'll be starting with a coach next month to help with this. 

Back to the original topic though - no glaring conformation flaws with Justus? Will try to get the pictures from yesterday up in the next day or two...


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

EveningShadows has been working with my aunt, who is a "retired" pony club coach and eventer. She is completely open to commentary, but she is 110% aware that what Justus is doing in these videos is WRONG. She knows she worked on headset, not realizing that a horse could fake it like that. Justus consistently works with her head "up" now and working on making her move and track up properly. It is a work in progress, but rest assured, EveningShadows is doing everything in her power to rectify the problem she knows she created.

She will be continuing lessons with a Dressage coach when we move the horses, as well as having said coach do some rides on Justus to assess exactly what she needs. She is also attending a Dressage clinic on May 1st.

She's asking for conformation critiques, and riding critiques are fine, but could we please be a little more aware that she already knows the videos are totally wrong? No point in beating a dead horse! She's asking for opinions and exercises to HELP get that back rounder, perhaps suggestions that we haven't yet heard from our coaches.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Well as we are not mind readers, that is useful information to have. Thanks


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

AlexS said:


> Well as we are not mind readers, that is useful information to have. Thanks


As she's already stated it a couple times, I just thought maybe I could elaborate and make it a little more clear.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Ok sorry it took so long, but finally got my confo pics uploaded! 



















Back legs









Front legs









So looking for an overall conformation critique, and as an example, this is how Justus moves out lately...I've stopped asking for her head and just focused on making her consistent in her gait. Will only get better with lessons!


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

*bump*

No comments on conformation?


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

Her forefeet seem to "Flare" out to the side a fair bit. I mean, her toes are facing outwards rather than forwards. Knees look nice, Slightly cow hocked.

Little bit of a short back and neck as others have stated.

Nice eyes, kind and intelligent. Good luck with her in the future.


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Thank you


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

She's a cute little ******! I love stout ponies! 

I wouldn't call her cowhocked, her toes are slightly turned though as are the fronts. Her hooves appear a bit flared and I would wonder if that & trimming is contributing to her being toed out. Her neck & headset still leaves a little to be desired, but that isn't a confo issue just more training time. 

Overall I don't see anything to really pick her apart on. She looks like a sweet, durable little mare that should hold up to many years of riding


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

Thank you! She does have a small amount of flaring on her fronts, but I think the sand covering the toe of her hoof really exaggerates it! With her neck being so short, I think my main focus right now is asking her to lower and lengthen at this point - instead of just tucking in. 

Thank you for the replies, appreciate the gentle critisism!


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