# Critique My Trottingbred



## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Sorry, I don't have much in the way of conformation critique. The side picture isn't very good for critique. Better to have one of him square and direct on the side. The only thing I can really say is that his neck looks rather thin for the rest of them, but that could all be in the picture angle and the length of his mane.

What is a "trottingbred"? Do you mean standardbred? I've never heard of a trottingbred.


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## Phantomrose (Jul 25, 2016)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Sorry, I don't have much in the way of conformation critique. The side picture isn't very good for critique. Better to have one of him square and direct on the side. The only thing I can really say is that his neck looks rather thin for the rest of them, but that could all be in the picture angle and the length of his mane.
> 
> What is a "trottingbred"? Do you mean standardbred? I've never heard of a trottingbred.




A Trottingbred was basically developed in the late 60s. They would cross Standardbred horses with Welsh, Hackney, and Shetland to produce a smaller equine to do Harness Racing. I actually never heard of the breed either before acquiring Jet. Nowadays, they just breed Trottingbred to Trottingbred with some Standardbred mixed into the line for speed. 

The neck thing- He does have a rather long mane. His neck is a short, thick one, and I agree it looks thin from he picture angle. I will take a better side picture tomorrow. Thank you on that  I have another side picture, but he has his blanket on in a paddock and not set square in that one either. He’s a bit of a tricky one to get square; there are more pics on his coggins paper as well. The two side ones on there are probably a bit better. 


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## pennywise (Feb 1, 2016)

brown

legs seem to work


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## Phantomrose (Jul 25, 2016)

Pics from coggins- taken early December. I will take more current pics tomorrow as well! 

Link for the About on Trottingbreds from the International Trotting and Pacing Association-
https://www.itpa.biz/about-us


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Awe, he looks like my favorite Mustang gelding that I used to ride. :smile:


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks for the info! Always fun to learn something new.

He is very nice. The only thing I'm not a fan of is his back, which appears to be really really short, and would be hard to fit a saddle to (just from the looks of it). Other than that, his front hooves toes seem long, but they would be fine after a trim and that's not really a conformational thing. He is clearly built/bred to stand up to work, good bone, and I can't really find anything displeasing about him. I really like him. I'm not a fan of horses with twigs for legs.

I just had the vet out today to do vaccines, health cert, and coggins. She took pictures, and I didn't have time to groom my mare before the vet arrived. So I'm guessing (haven't seen pictures yet) that my mare looks mildly dusty with an absolutely knotted mane and tail (though her mane is trimmed short, she had a big knot right in the middle where she's been rubbing it through the fence). Oh well. Au natural pictures I guess.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I think he's a cutie and don't see anything glaringly wrong with him.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

He's cute....
With what you are wanting him to do he is fine...
Once you get to upper-levels of performance his build will make that goal more challenging, but it isn't just "build" seen that matters, but heart and disposition that have a huge play and effect in that whole picture.
I've seen some absolute train-wrecks in looks do things they should not of been able to do...
I've seen some exquisite built horses that could not, would not do anything with ability or finesse...
It was what was under the skin, hidden....that was want and heart that mattered, made all the difference...
Enjoy the journey, and tasks at hand learning together.
Enjoy your horse...
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo...._


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## Phantomrose (Jul 25, 2016)

Thanks guys for all the critique on him! 
@horseluvr2524 - Thank you! I agree about his back and fitting a saddle to him. I have a Wintec at the moment, and it fits ok as long as I use a half pad, although I do need to get a better saddle. The barb had a saddle fitter come out in March, and had her check Jet. She said the Wintec is ok for now, but I should save and invest in a better one. The one that she tried on him, and fit great was a Voltaire demo saddle. So, putting a bit of money away for that. 
@horselovinguy - Thank you!  I can see that he does have the heart to work- he is quite spunky, and has a good jump to him, which Both my trainer and I really like. I’m not worried about reaching for the Upper Levels. I just want to have fun with him at the lower levels and just get him ready for show season next year; his hairs are lovely for the Dressage portion, and his jump seems scopey. He just has to learn how to bring his body more together, and get his canter more together as well, as he looks like a spider at times when going for a bigger trot, or trying to transition to canter lol! It’s a work in progress, but with instruction, he seems to be getting the hang of it slowly. 
@JCnGrace - Thank you as well! Lol A thing I noticed from his winter pics is that he is a bit chunky in his belly. I am hoping that consistent riding and exercising him will trim him a tiny bit and allow him to gain some muscle as well.  


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Phantomrose said:


> I can see that he does have the heart to work- he is quite spunky, and has a good jump to him, which Both my trainer and I really like. I’m not worried about reaching for the Upper Levels. I just want to have fun with him at the lower levels and just get him ready for show season next year_; *He just has to learn how to bring his body more together, and get his canter more together as well, as he looks like a spider at times when going for a bigger trot, or trying to transition to canter lol!*_ It’s a work in progress, but with instruction, he seems to be getting the hang of it slowly.


_*This in blue....*_is what you would call a false frame.
Sad, it is now up to you to teach him how to work properly, collect and push not pull their body along all strung out.
Sounds like you are starting from basics and teaching that body control and filling in the gaps in training lacking...
You are the one who will benefit for doing the training right in the long term.
Your horse will too when he is able to do more with less in the face and not as much stress on his body when it works together in harmony not out of whack and balance.
Enjoy the journey.
:runninghorse2:....


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## Phantomrose (Jul 25, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> _*This in blue....*_is what you would call a false frame.
> Sad, it is now up to you to teach him how to work properly, collect and push not pull their body along all strung out.
> Sounds like you are starting from basics and teaching that body control and filling in the gaps in training lacking...
> You are the one who will benefit for doing the training right in the long term.
> ...




I agree, and that’s what my trainer said as well. She’s helping me bringing him along, which is awesome. With her help, he is starting to shape up, little by little. Yesterday’s lesson he was coming together more, which I was happy to see.  


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Phantomrose said:


> A Trottingbred was basically developed in the late 60s. They would cross Standardbred horses with Welsh, Hackney, and Shetland to produce a smaller equine to do Harness Racing. I actually never heard of the breed either before acquiring Jet. Nowadays, they just breed Trottingbred to Trottingbred with some Standardbred mixed into the line for speed.


Thanks for educating me, PR!  How interesting that people interbred ponies with Standies. That's a cute little horse you've got there.

He seems a little narrow but that's very common in geldings that were gelded early. Biggest issue to me is his front hooves - way too long and angles out of shape - heels running under (which means hooves are starting to physically deform). Barefooting him, if you can do it (I'm assuming he's shod; this configuration mostly happens to horses who are shod incorrectly or go too long between trims), would help his hooves - and making sure they stay short and that his angles are gradually corrected as the hoof grows out. (I trim hooves, so this really strikes me!)

You're trying to get your horse more balanced in his work - this will be easier if he's not wearing "platform shoes".

Your fella is lovely and muscular, and he looks alert and friendly and like he's a good sport as well!

:apple:


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## Phantomrose (Jul 25, 2016)

SueC said:


> Thanks for educating me, PR!  How interesting that people interbred ponies with Standies. That's a cute little horse you've got there.
> 
> He seems a little narrow but that's very common in geldings that were gelded early. Biggest issue to me is his front hooves - way too long and angles out of shape - heels running under (which means hooves are starting to physically deform). Barefooting him, if you can do it (I'm assuming he's shod; this configuration mostly happens to horses who are shod incorrectly or go too long between trims), would help his hooves - and making sure they stay short and that his angles are gradually corrected as the hoof grows out. (I trim hooves, so this really strikes me!)
> 
> ...




Thank you Sueq!  

When I purchased him he was kept barefoot as far as I know.  I was recommended shoes for him because he was sore from an abscess. He gets trimmed about every eight weeks now and just gets shoed in the front. His feet are looking better according to my farrier- he was also a bit thrushy earlier but now that’s all gone!  

It is also pretty rough terrain where he is boarded, but I hope I can get him barefoot again in the winter or sometime next year. I asked the farrier how long does the space where the abscess was takes to grow in more and he said about a year. I’m going to ask if it would be w good idea to pull his shoes when winter time comes around. 


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, 

I agree there's nothing glaringly obvious to me about him & he looks nice. I don't actually think his back is phenomenally short, but guess I'm used to that more than long backed TB's & the likes too.

I went looking for a 'how to take good confo pics' page for your reference, but including the thread on this forum, they only seem to tell you basically how to take a side-on pic. So, for most accurate views... 

Take side-on picture squarely, so entire horse is at 90 degrees from the camera. Ensure the level of the pic is at bodylevel, not higher. Ensure the horse is standing squarely as possible, not legs wide apart, stepping, cocking a hind leg etc. If the horse can't stand square, or habitually stands in a certain manner, left fore forward or some such, tell us about it, so we know whether it's just that moment in time or otherwise. Consider including a pic of both sides, esp if there is any imbalance.

Front-on pics should also be taken as squarely as poss & horse standing squarely. Also from horse's chest height, not looking down on the horse. If there is any question about limb deviations, take a pic from squarely in front of the knee.

Hind-on pics, as above, squarely & horse standing square, from below tail head level. If the horse has a nice long, thick tail like this one, braid it or tie it up, so you can see the hind legs.

I would like to point out a few things I noticed, mostly tho to point out how skewed things can look depending on angle of the pic & how horse is standing etc. 

In your first pic, with his hind end closer to the camera than his forehand, it looks bigger in proportion & he looks bum high. He also looks like he's standing quite a way under himself. I don't think, from the other pics that the bum high is accurate, but I do think, esp considering his long, forward heels, also marked in this pic, that he is standing under himself - I'd say that's likely a hoof issue rather than 'conformational' tho.

In the other side-on pic I attached, because his forehand is slightly closer, I think the straightness of his hind thru his stifle is likely exaggerated, and he looks sicklehocked because of this angle too as well as he's stepped forward with this foot. Again tho he is under himself. I've also marked his toe angles, that while you can't get anything like an accurate idea from these pics, it appears to me his right fore is longer & on a shallower angle than the left fore. Altho those angles may not reflect what's going on inside - looking at fetlock angle I'd *guess* the right fore should be steeper.

Front on pic, being a tad high, might be what's making his legs look 'varus' like that - bent inwards at the knees. He is pretty narrow looking, which could be 'conformation' or his age/development(how old did you say he was?), or it could be that he's just tight through the shoulders & some chiropractic & massage work might do wonders.

Rear-on pic, as mentioned, his tail is covering his legs. He looks base narrow, which may be emphasised by pic angle, and it doesn't look like he's standing square, he has his right foot forward.



Phantomrose said:


> shoes for him because he was sore from an abscess. He gets trimmed about every eight weeks


Especially if there are problems to resolve, especially if the horse is shod, I wouldn't leave it 8 weeks in between, but would be resetting at 6 weeks max. It was a major solar abscess was it? Does he have a pad on that hoof? It can take a fair few weeks to grow back enough sole to be comfortable without protection. I would be concerned about protecting the underside of his foot as much, if not more than his discomfort.



> I asked the farrier how long does the space where the abscess was takes to grow in more and he said about a year. I’m going to ask if it would be w good idea to pull his shoes when winter time comes around.


Oh, commented on last before reading this bit. So if he said a year, I suppose the abscess must have been on the coronary border at the toe? While I *generally* think horses with issues are better off unshod, particularly if there is an issue such as a wall abscess, separation etc, I would definitely avoid peripheral loading. It won't help with healing either.

Of course, I don't know the details, so the above is general advice only. And I don't at all expect you to take my anonymous word for anything either. But IME the most important thing you can do for your horse is do your own homework & don't take *anyone's* word for stuff blindly. Not all people who work with horses for a living are good & knowledgeable about it & even 'experts'(vets & farriers etc) don't always know better, aren't omniscient, and there are many recent studies & developments too, that not every 'expert' is up with, so learn for yourself, so you can make more informed decisions. On that note, check out the thread link in my signature line to get you started.


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## Phantomrose (Jul 25, 2016)

@loosie - Thank you for the advice, on getting conformation pictures, and advice about doing my own homework and research. Lol I seem to be obsessively doing research in regards to care, and maintenance to his hooves, and hoof care. I will look at the link in your signature and take better pictures to more accurately depict him. He was also wearing snowpads and borium shoes at the time as well for the first pics (just got them off yesterday and now he’s in normal shoes.) In regards to age, he is nine years old (about to be 10 on the 26th of April.) 

When I did hear he was barefoot, that is what attracted me to him; owner said he does have nice, strong hooves, and the abscess he got back in November was the first he has ever had (I acquired him on November 27th) When I took him back with me, the abscess was drained, though he was pretty sore. Farrier had a look at him (December 6th) and suggested the front shoes so I went with it. When watching the farrier yesterday, and in March, he pointed to where the “space” I think you could say where it drained. 

Before purchasing him, previous owner did note that he was due for a trim. Those coggins pics were taken before the December 6th farrier appointment. 

I was doing research in regards to barefoot horses and doing Eventing with them; and got some mixed results- some people just leave front shoes on, others barefoot. I guess my main concern would be eventually doing cross country with him, since it would be on varied terrain, although I’ve read about hoof boots for rough terrain as well. 


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, conventional shoes may well be the best option for eventing/x country, if he can't be bare. But I'd get his feet healthy & strong first.

You can always check out the other link in my signature for what's needed & then post hoof pics for a better idea.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Phantomrose said:


> When I purchased him he was kept barefoot as far as I know.  I was recommended shoes for him because he was sore from an abscess. He gets trimmed about every eight weeks now and just gets shoed in the front. His feet are looking better according to my farrier- he was also a bit thrushy earlier but now that’s all gone!


I'm with @*loosie* on this one; if sore from an abscess protect the sole itself - and not just by raising it off the ground (by shoeing), which creates problems in itself that I'm sure @*loosie*'s links will explain. But basically, if you raise the hoof peripherally with a shoe, the frog's main functions are undermined - and those functions are blood circulation through the foot, and cushioning of impact. Less blood circulation through the foot means slower healing, more risk of infections. And while the hoof is shod it's not wearing, and exacerbating the poor conformation of the front feet (long toe/low heel) by adding to its length and creating more leverage to reinforce the deformity.

Personally I'd be inclined to try (padded) hoof boots on a horse like that for rehabilitation - so you can ride without the "ouch" and the horse's hoof can be rasped down into better shape on a regular (weekly is good at first) basis - a little at a time.

This is especially applicable in winter, when (if your winters are wet, like they are here) the sole is softer and stands up less well to rough terrain.

Personally I use Renegade boots. I've got an overstriding, eager horse who strips standard hoof boots going around corners at speed and through mud, but Renegades stay on for him. That's great for general riding and endurance, but when you jump with a horse, it increases the chances of the horse stepping into the backs of its front boots when landing, and stripping them off, so you'd have to see how that goes - works for some, not for others.

Will echo @*loosie* that 8 weeks is far too long between trimming/re-shoeing, and will go further to say that good practice in racehorses is every 4-5 weeks as longer intervals almost inevitably lead to hoof deformities (which are so common they are almost seen as "normal" by many people - but they are _preventable_, and to a significant extent can be rehabilitated or at least managed). The farrier from whom I get my annual masterclass also recommends that short interval for shoeing (=no wear = hoof getting longer and leverage increasing), but says 90% of the clientele let it go far longer and then get problems, and that prevention is easier than cure.

If a horse is too sore to go unshod at rest, then I'd be using a hoof boot to support it, but not an all-closed-in type (Renegades are open at the back, below the heel captivator). Also I'd be packing the sole to keep it cushioned and relatively dry at the acute stage if necessary, and re-dressing frequently. (It's a lot of work but you can do that part yourself.) Therapeutic boots are also available for stable/paddock use.


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## Phantomrose (Jul 25, 2016)

Thank you both, @SueC and @loosie for more advice, and for being very informative. I checked out the link for taking good hoof pics, and will try to get that done either tomorrow or sometime during the week. Our winters tend to vary; with it being wet and icey from Jan to late March (as it was this year.) I really appreciate all of your informative responses. I want to do what is best for my horse (well pony), and being a first time horse owner I feel that I try hard to be extra careful with him, as in wanting to provide the best care that I can for him, so that he is in top form and shape to be doing the activities asked of him. I cannot stop thinking about him, and researching about horse care; even before I owned a horse, I researched about general horse care and hoof care.


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