# On Australian weather, fires, etc.



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Just want to say, stay safe everyone, with the fires still burning in NSW & the stinker of the week we're in for over virtually the whole of Oz.... Please, if you're in a remotely bushy area, if you don't yet have a good fire plan & preps done already, please do it NOW! Dont put it off any longer.

Thinking of ppl still in the midst, in nsw - my cous has lost her house, but thankfully they all safe. The whole rainforest area surrounding them has burned. Rainforests are not likely to ever recover in this climate... Saw a mssg on FB from Easycare Downunder to say their warehouse is only couple kms from one front so orders will be delayed.... Just waiting for the proverbial excrement to hit the turbine down here. 

Funny, after going thru the 2009 fires down here with a narrow escape for our place & very few losses among the people I know, I thought I handled it all & got over it pretty well... until a couple of weeks ago when we had our first hot one for the season, strong, hot north winds, sky was brown with dust blowing down from the dessicated north(so couldn't tell if smoke without going out to smell). All came back to me. I was just a tad anxious, sitting at home all day, ready to bundle animals in the car & get out at the drop of a hat, listening to CFA scanner all day.... I'm seriously not looking forward to this season.

And ive still gotta work out where to house chickens if we need to evacuate - my eldest breeds rare breeds & wants to save at least a few - cos sadly no way we could catch & take many, what with dogs & snakes & precious possessions... Oh & people, to fit in car too...

What I really need... :tardis:


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

You stay safe too! 

We are in south west WA and the smoke from Yanchep, Collie, the one in Cowaramup and the one near Yallingup in the past couple of days alone has been horrific. We couldn't run our air con today until it was already 32 degrees inside the (insulated!!!!) house because the smoke was so bad. At least we didn't have the smoke yesterday (which hit 40) because I had to put the AC on at 8am so the greyhound would manage until my brother got up, because I was out all morning. My mare had to be moved from her yard to a paddock (not ideal, she's meant to be on yard rest) because that was the only way she was going to have any shade.

We are thankfully right on the coast so if all else fails and there's nowhere to go we will take our dogs and our horses to the beach and get in the water. Our fire plan is pretty much just "gtfo as soon as we're under a watch and act" though. The house is insured, the house's contents are insured, the car is insured (comprehensive), all our important documentation is in the cloud so can be accessed from anywhere we can sign into the relevant accounts. Photos, too. And we have friends and family far enough away that if we have to evacuate we can get to safety.

We figure, if we lose everything we own in a bushfire, it'll be a temporary state of affairs and we have people who can house us and our animals until it's sorted. Things can be replaced. People and animals cannot. So we will not risk our lives to stay and defend, because ultimately our things are not more important than our or our animals' lives. And with that decision made, there's no point in sticking about until we _have to_ evacuate, it's much safer to leave earlier when the roads are relatively clear.

We live in town, but very close to a tract of bushland that does not get burned by DPAW. Our horses are on farmland about 15km out of town, and are more likely to be threatened than our house is - but both load and travel reliably. Still, knowing we have time to get them loaded will mean they load faster (as we all know, being stressed about a time limit stresses the horses and makes it harder to get them to do what you want!)


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Oh my:frown_color::frown_color:

I saw a news clip on The Weather Channel about your fires and I wondered how many of you might be affected.

Prayers and good wishes to all if you.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Oh Blue, I didn't realise where you be. I somehow missed the collie fires happening tho I heard about the others over there. Seems half of Aus is burning & this only the start of Summer... 

You mention bushland your DPAW hasn't burned(fuel reduction burns), but some of the worst fires in NSW started on land which had very recently been burned... the country is just dessicated.... & too dry in many areas to have been able to do any burns even over winter - there have been precious few burns done(compared to what needed) over here this year & none at all in my (heavy bush)area, as they just haven't had safe opportunities.

Has it also been extra dry over your side of the sand pit? Afraid on that front I've been a bit preoccupied about more local conditions...

...& yet our esteemed PM has rushed off to NZ because of the volcano...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Everyone stay safe! Agree, the lives of the people and animals are much more important than the possessions. 

The beach sounds like an excellent (if temporary) place to shelter from fires...but may have to get far out in the water. Will the horse go out in the waves?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes we have had record low rainfall this year too  thankfully we have really high groundwater so we still had a decent growing season, so there's hay/feed around and it's not $50 for a small square. Hay prices are holding fairly steady. 

The one near Yallingup started in extremely tough (hilly) terrain with high fuel load, so it could have been really bad, but Dunsborough VBFB and surrounding brigades had it out in under an hour. Great work from our country's true heroes. Collie wasn't looking good for a while, it was headed straight for the Collie township, but winds changed direction and blew it back on itself overnight so it was downgraded to an Advice which is absolutely fantastic. We got Australia's biggest water bomber flown over from Sydney to fight that one! A 737 with retardant tanks, beautiful beast she is, incredible to watch in action. But I was surprised we got her when NSW looked so bad!

We are on a big, sheltered bay, so there usually aren't very many/any big waves, no riptides, relatively few sharks, too far south for crocs... so the horses do go into the water. Mum's pony doesn't like water much despite 9 years of our best efforts **** but my big girl will wade right in. Horses are usually pretty good about going into water when they're threatened by fire though, if they have the option. I think they instinctively know that they're safer in the water. Our beaches are also fairly wide and sandy so there's a nice buffer between horses and flames even if we can't get them into the water. Ultimately, if we end up in an emergency situation and can't flee, it's either there or the oval of a local school (manicured green grass is safer than dry farmland after all). 

Planning for catastrophic fires is a fact of life in Australia.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Glad to hear the fires are under control @blue eyed pony. Hope everyone Down Under is safe!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

> Planning for catastrophic fires is a fact of life in Australia.


Yeah, bushfires have always been a threat, but that threat HAS changed & become far bigger, as the world warms, Aus is still logged, cleared, intensively farmed, mined, dried out... It's scary, talking to firies, about how much it's changed just in the last few years even. A decade ago there were far more opportunities for controlled burns for eg.

But thinking back, I can't believe how unrealistic, unprepared we all were in 2009. I left my husband on the roof of our (insured) house with a garden hose in his hand on that afternoon. Thankfully the wind changed when the fire was half a km away...


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## makin tracks (Jan 25, 2009)

Loosie, hope you are tracking ok. 

Is there someone willing to help house your birds temporarily, so you don't have to decide what to take and what to leave.

Animal Rescue Collective on facebook are a great group if you haven't already tapped into them. Lots of help from all over the country.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Here in Florida we debate whether to evacuate or not every time a hurricane threatens to hit. At least hurricanes you can plan for. Wildfires are harder to predict. Don't forget those poor people in the Bahamas who are still struggling for basic necessities. Or those in California who's homes have burned. Climate change is dangerous for all. 

I have more horses then i can evacuate. So I have to plan on 2 trips and a very early head start. The problem with evacuating is that you don't want to go from a bad location to a worse one. Storms change track and so do fires. Roads get clogged with traffic. It's a nightmare. 

I remember watching the tv before Hurricane Frances and debating "do we leave or not? What do we do with the animals? what about the ducks? (You can hardly take ducks with you)... Ducks did just fine. Even survived the tornado we got. The house lost the roof, severe water damage. Fences were gone. The house needed to be completely gutted- new floors, new cabinets, new everything. Insurance paid in full. And someone donated new fencing. The school even donated some money for repairs for those with the worst damage.

If in doubt, leave early. My concern would be what happens if the fire shifts and you are sleeping?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

makin tracks said:


> Loosie, hope you are tracking ok.
> 
> Is there someone willing to help house your birds temporarily, so you don't have to decide what to take and what to leave.
> 
> Animal Rescue Collective on facebook are a great group if you haven't already tapped into them. Lots of help from all over the country.


Thanks for the FB suggestion, will check it out. But no, we have in excess of 60 birds ATM because they breed them to sell & there are heaps of babies at present. So... not many people would be able to take anywhere near that many, and what's temporary? If we're not looking at just grabbing who can fit in the box in the case of impending fire, the high risk period is from around November to March... so 5 months of every year.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Yeah, definitely budgeting for getting out early enough, not waiting until the eleventh hour, esp as we have to drive through bush to get out - assuming we don't just go camp in someone's big open paddock somewhere. But where do you draw that line - we will definitely pack up & go visit city relatives on 'catastrophic' days, but I deliberate about whether we should stay on 'extreme' or even 'severe' risk days... It was an extreme day a couple of weeks back & will be again tomoz...


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Scary stuff. Stay safe all of you!!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

So Darcy & I took horses for early ride this morn before too hot, got back to normal mountain views under clear blue sky... then within half an hour the mountain had disappeared completely & even the bottom of our property is vague! Rang CFA but they said this has all blown down from NSW - can only imagine how bad it is up there! 

And our thoughts are with families of 2 volunteer firies killed last night... both young dads.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Last night was a reminder of exactly how much our firies (both paid and vollie) put on the line for us. For complete strangers they know nothing about. All the recognition in the world wouldn't be enough. Deepest condolences to those who've lost loved ones, and my most heartfelt thanks to those who continue to risk their lives and the families who wait, hoping they'll return.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

A while back I remember watching a new fire retardant being tested in Aus. They had controlled fires with planes spraying both the red powder they use and this new product that certainly stopped the fires way way more effectively. 

I tried to find it again to no avail but wonder whether it was being used still. 

These fires are so devestatimg and spread so fast. 

Heaven help those in its path and those fighting it.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, to add to Blue's gratitude for the volunteers, extending that to the mob who have come to help not only from Tasmania, but a planeload have also come all the way from Canada! Words do not suffice as to what absolute legends they all are! My cousin & also a good friend are 'Firechicks' up there too, along with a number of firies down here I know - dunno if you o/s people know, but the gov't only pay the Metro brigade & some 'head office' rural ones - vast majority of rural fire services over here are unpaid volunteers. Many have been working without a paycheck for 2 months up there now... And words do not suffice, and here is not the place to extrapolate on my thoughts about our government on this matter!

And Fox, yeah, I think you mean pink, not red stuff. Last year we had a personal scare, as one of their school friends was deemed old enough to accompany his dad for the first time on a 'boys week' of camping, fishing, 4WDing. In an isolated, dense bush & mountainous area which a bushfire sprung up in. Last we heard before he lost reception & stopped communicating was they were attempting to get the hell out, down a steep, rough 4WD track on a ridgeline with fire on either side! Well they got out, came back with a pink car after being bombed by the fire helicopter!

And if pics are working for me now - seems reduced internet, maybe cos of smoke blocking sat signal - I'll attach a pic of our view today, along with another, with horses at our back door, to show the view we usually have.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Loosie, hope the fires do stay away! About your birds, here’s one option for taking them:
https://www.countryliving.com/life/kids-pets/news/a44701/chicken-evacuation-florida-hurricane/
Big wire dog crates or even cardboard boxes with holes can pack a bunch in as well. 60 is a lot, but if it’s mostly young ones you might be able to take more than you think squeezed in with everything else that’s going with you.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I haven't dealt with fires for a few years now. But, I used to every year. I don't know how many times I called the kids' school and asked one of the staff who lived in town (we were all friends) if my daughters could go home with them, because we had fire on the ranch and I'd be out fighting it. 

Usually I could get the cattle away early enough, but one time we brought about 600 pair ahead of the flames. A friend was half way up the herd, had her camera and got some really scary photos of us coming out of a pine forest with smoke, ash, and embers all around, and flames not far behind. Fortunately, it was late summer and the calves were big, strong, able to keep up with their moms, and mostly willing to.

My thoughts are with you all.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Southern NSW fires have claimed the life of another fire fighter, after he left his pregnant wife to go save others. Another 2 missing. A number unaccounted for in East Gippsland(Vic) and these pics at Mallacoota, far East coast, in the DAYTIME!

And despite previous pressure & promises to cancel Sydney fireworks tonight(still can hardly see the sky in Sydney) and put the money towards fire & drought relief, they're doing it after all. & our esteemed PM is hosting a party to watch them.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Not cancelling the fireworks in Sidney, made my local news in the SE United States last night

They just brought it up again - stating the Sydney officials insist they must do the fireworks to show they are unified — really!? 

Wildlife is burning up, people are losing their lives and the political machine thinks shooting off fireworks will unification!?!? To coin a former neighbor’s phrase, “they don’t have the good common sense God gave a goose” ——-

How ignorant - especially when cancelling and using the money elsewhere is what the people want. Remember that at election time.

Those are scary pictures — here’s hoping things get under control soon


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@walkinthewalk did they say Where they are setting them off from. Sydney Bay is right next to the city and they might be using barrages setting in the Bay.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

@RegalCharm they get let off from the harbour bridge. But sparks can travel an extremely long way.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

loosie said:


> Southern NSW fires have claimed the life of another fire fighter, after he left his pregnant wife to go save others. Another 2 missing. A number unaccounted for in East Gippsland(Vic) and these pics at Mallacoota, far East coast, in the DAYTIME!
> 
> And despite previous pressure & promises to cancel Sydney fireworks tonight(still can hardly see the sky in Sydney) and put the money towards fire & drought relief, they're doing it after all. & our esteemed PM is hosting a party to watch them.


That's terrible. My thoughts with all who are touched by this in such a terrible way. Many prayers <3


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Mate... I'm trying very hard to bite my political tongue here on the forum(find me on FB or PM if you want to know my opinion) but suffice to say, it is NOT in ignorance Walkin, but yet another addition of 'insult to injury' and I'm not sitting on my hands to wait for the next election personally, to do whatever I can. And Blue, 'sparks' have already flown a long way before the 'one more straw' of fireworks... and how ironic that i saw even a government warning about illegal fireworks starting fires... it is heartening to hear the rest of the world are being reported to at least, even though our own media are so.... owned. 

I feel like im going to spontaneously combust sometimes.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Scary! I don't mind a fireworks show normally, but in the midst of rampant wildfires it seems heartless and insensitive. 


Going to pray for a VERY RAINY New Year for y'all down there. Lots of rain to drown the fires!!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Think the first screenshot was about 6 weeks ago. Second one is current, just of last 72hrs. I hadn't realised how much of the centre & nth west has also burned too...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

And many fires are WAY too big to really make any kind of a dent - Mallacoota on the far east coast of Victoria for eg. is surrounded in 1000's of acres of heavy, mountainous eucalypt forest. At least the defense force has finally been mobilised to help defend the country - firefighters have had to be airlifted in & out of areas, where there's no alternate access. 'Refugees' trapped on the beach & in boats in Mallacoota & other places have been rescued by ADF helicopters yesterday.

Many fires are so big they're creating their own weather - pyrocumulonimbus clouds which cause dry thunder storms... which then create more fires. Here are some pics to give some perspective...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

The Big Smoke alright. Gas masks anyone? You can't buy anything of the sort in Sydney, they sold out long ago. I thought it was smokey down here a couple of weeks back, but... This is Sydney - our fair city who (Walkin' informs me) decided to call it 'unifying' us with their fireworks the other night. The last pic with the red globe in the sky is the SUN high over Parliament House in Canberra, who had the worst air quality in the world yesterday. Planes have been grounded in both cities I'm told.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

But hey! At least the bushfire victims will have something to cheer about, according to, to borrow AnitaAnnie's words, a 'heartless and insensitive" bozo who saw fit to make a public speech saying that. As this forum is no place for politics, I won't name names...

Sorry boys, but you are now tarnished by that comment.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

& seeing as pics seem to be working for me again, this is the diff between our regular mountain view(with horses at the back door) and the view as it's occasionally been since a few weeks back - before the Vic fires - this was smoke blown down from the north.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

We had smoke blocking out the sun (enough to need to use lights indoors during the day) and yellow-tinged skies here most of yesterday in the lower South Is of New Zealand. So I cannot imagine how terrifying it all is over your way. I hope you all get through this safely and some rain comes to help out.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^You got fires there too? Or has the smoke traveled all that way across the ditch??


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

No fires here at the moment, we have had a really wet summer so far. The smoke from Australia came all the way across!

The particulates are even depositing on glaciers/snow (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/11...h-island-glaciers-stained-by-aussie-bushfires).


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

OMG @loosie the whole country is on fire :eek_color:

They say pictures speak a thousand words, and those pictures are gut wrenching. How can anything survive that? Your whole country will be changing when this is over. 


Was wondering, with this extensive damage, is terrorism a possibility? 

Praying for you all, every day :hug:


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm absolutely horrified by what you all are dealing with. That map makes me want to cry. I'm praying right along with @AnitaAnne.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Just heartbreaking. So many lives affected, lost... and the animal toll is now into the hundreds of millions. Just horrific. I'm so sorry this is happening and wish there was something we could do but send good thoughts.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

This is terrifying even just to watch from afar. I wish there was more that could be done but you and your country are in my thoughts and prayers... I'm so sorry. Nothing much I can do but I'm here (and the whole forum is I'm sure) for all of you in this terrible situation.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks guys. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

Wow MeditativeRider I know there's been a lot of it but still surprised to hear just how much smoke made it to your place! We in city today & can hardly see buildings... 

My sis in law has packed up today & coming down to stay with her mum in city while her town(Bright) a couple hrs away from us is under alert & tomorrow is looking bad.

AnitaAnnie, despite what 'some' would have us believe, I think terrorism risk is low. Unless you're counting the risk from pyro's - unfortunately one at least of the nsw fires was started by a pyro - was thankfully caught - hope hung drawn & quartered- & was a fire fighter! There are a couple places not far from us, which have fires very frequently, even in winter, but they haven't caught those terrorists yet.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Been following....


Please remain safe...flee in time to get away if you must.
This is not your first go round with fire dangers...
Thinking of you, your family and critters you all remain safe and these fires soon are doused by Mother Natures anger of those who intentionally destroy her beautiful world.


_hlg._


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

This is all so horrible. Our poor country  

I continue to pray for rain for the fire affected areas. The great cosmic joke is that it's raining _here_ where there are no fires. So unfair.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The climate stats just came out for Australia 2019.

From our weather service:

_Preliminary figures reveal that 2019 was Australia's driest and hottest year on record.

According to data published on the Bureau of Meteorology's website, Australia's mean temperature in 2019 was 1.52 degrees above the long-term average. This is Australia's highest national mean temperature in records dating back to 1910, beating the previous record from 2013 by 0.19 degrees.
_










_Image: Australia's annual national mean temperature anomalies from 1910 to 2019. Source: Bureau of Meteorology.

When looking at maximum temperatures alone, the national average was a whopping 2.09 degrees above the long-term average. This is the first time Australia's average maximum temperature has been more than two degrees above the average of the 30-year period from 1961 to 1990. It also beats the previous annual record from 2013 by half a degree.
_










_Image: Australia's annual national maximum temperature anomalies from 1910 to 2019. Source: Bureau of Meteorology.

Australia's average minimum temperature in 2019 was the sixth highest in 110 years of records, coming in at 0.95 degrees above average. _











_Image: Australia's annual national minimum temperature anomalies from 1910 to 2019. Source: Bureau of Meteorology.

In terms of rainfall, Australia easily had its driest year in records dating back to 1900. The national average rainfall for the year was 187.56mm below the long-term average, beating the previous driest anomaly of -150.73mm from 1902, near the end of the federation drought.
_










_Image: Australia's annual national rainfall anomalies from 1900 to 2019. Source: Bureau of Meteorology.

The temperature data referenced in this article comes from Australia's ACORN-SAT dataset, which is an adjusted dataset designed specifically for studying long-term climate temperature trends in Australia. More information on the adjustment of data can be found here: Long-term temperature record: Australian Climate Observations Reference Network ? Surface Air Temperature

While temperature observations in Australia pre-date 1910, this is generally accepted as the earliest date that temperature observations were standardised across the country through the use of a Stevenson Screen.
_

:|​
...where we are (South Coast WA), we're in our second year of bad drought. Annual rainfall at our location should be around 800mm and we only had around 400mm in 2019. The honey harvest failed last year and our bees only have small amounts of spare honey this year.

And if anyone's going to talk about terrorism, the _really_ deadly type is the largely unreported type that goes on in the parliaments and boardrooms of "business-as-usual" who think their short-term profit and their notion of eternal economic growth is more important than our life support systems and all the creatures on this planet. :evil:

My husband and I are volunteer firefighters - although our area has been quiet so far this year. We made sure we reduced the hazards in our own 50ha of on-farm bush by continuing the indigenous style bushland management of mosaic burning, which also happens to promote biodiversity (Tim Flannery, one of Australia's best-known ecologists, thinks the absence of the Aboriginal fire management after indigenous people were chased off the land is one of the major factors behind the recent mass mammal extinctions on our continent, along with habitat destruction - >80% of native woodlands and forests cleared in the past 250 years - and the introduction of the fox and particularly the cat to this country.)

If anyone is interested in photos and a story of an indigenous-style burn, I have something here:

Burning Days ? Sue Coulstock

I've also written about (and continue to write about) this topic in the Australian press; copy of one piece at the end of this post:

https://www.horseforum.com/member-j...ys-other-people-479466/page60/#post1970810499

Good luck, @loosie. :hug:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm not sure if you saw this, @loosie, but in the midst of all this it should give you something to smile about:










from https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ving-bitter-old-white-men-apoplectic-goes-to-


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks for that info Sue. I 'liked' your post but 'like' is not the appropriate sentiment.... 

And to those worried about terrorism, read that paragraph of Sue's again.

Going to get hay tomorrow, that if we don't get burned out should be a years supply, then can think about Jake too.


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## DWPC (Jan 2, 2020)

As an ex-Californian I saw many hundreds of homes (including my previous home) burn in wildfires, so I can relate. The losses are just heart-breaking to hear about. Can you post a link to an fire relief organization to whom we outside Australia may contribute?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Oh n sue thanks for last post but will wait till home - can't read on my fone easily.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

DWPC thanks for that offer, but regardless of reason, no soliciting for money allowed here so you will have to google for that.

Hope the gov are going to show some real 'unity' & give some actual support...

The 2009 fires were bad enough to go through but now seem paltry....


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Looks like they've finally said yes to international help, at least - some US firefighters have landed in Australia. Thank god for that. We need them. We needed them weeks ago before it ever got this bad.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

Disasters of this scale are... no words. Simply cannot imagine what your country is going through. Cannot imagine how people and their country recover from such devastation. Forests, homes, wildlife, livestock, people... 
Just so terrible. My thoughts are with Australia and all her people. Stay safe and be strong.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

:-( ...the news on the animals... https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ralia-bushfires-endangered-species-extinction

...and as usual, First Dog On The Moon has his finger on it:









from https://www.theguardian.com/comment...hfires-cannot-be-held-in-a-single-human-heart


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

And there are still people who want to deny climate change is real. I'm sure the fossil fuel industry supports politicians with those views. 

I can't imagine the number of unreported deaths from the fires due to poor air quality. I couldn't imagine having asthma and trying to cope with smoke filled air. 

I'm amazed at my neighbors who all burn trash, dead tree limbs, and then leave it to smolder all day. My neighbor did that. It's extremely annoying and inconsiderate. The new developments all rip out the trees and burn the rest. I honestly wish for a burn ban or some other solution for yard waste, other than burning it and damaging our air quality further. This is a worldwide problem - look at the deforestation and burning of the rainforests...

I hope more firefighters volunteer to help. Those are massive fires. And rain comes soon.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

@loosie ,hope you got your hay supply today. So one less worry at least.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Guys, Celeste Barber (an Aussie comedian) started a fundraiser, and it's earned $3.8million Aussie in A DAY. I'm not allowed to post a link but it's on her fb page if anyone wants to give. Even a dollar, because every dollar counts. Even a share.

I am absolutely blown away by the generosity of people, in times of strife. Thank you, world, for everything you give. People are amazing.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

4horses said:


> And there are still people who want to deny climate change is real. I'm sure the fossil fuel industry supports politicians with those views.


Not exactly the way I see it. The fossil fuel industry DRIVES the 'belief', and DRIVES the greedy politicians/big businessmen to support THEM. The 'denial' about climate change, about fossil fuels being not so bad is no different to the tactics of the tobacco industry fueling doubt & denial in past decades. 

And don't be fooled about their 'ignorance' & 'beliefs' either - while there are 'little people' who have indeed (somehow - find it hard how, in this day & age) remained ignorant & been sucked in to the propaganda & do believe the climate crisis is a hoax, don't for a minute get sucked in to any plea of ignorance from the big boys. They are fully aware and culpable... just like the tobacco industry was...



> This is a worldwide problem - look at the deforestation and burning of the rainforests...


Yes it is, but beware the 'powers that be' using it as an argument to do nothing, because it's too big for any one country, or stating what (paltry) amount they are doing is enough because there are 3rd world countries doing less, producing bigger problems... pollies are inordinately good at 'passing the buck'. 

Not sure if that last is just an Aus term - means making excuses to blame others to absolve yourself.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Subbing.
@loosie I hope that you will post something as often as possible. We are all worried about you and your horses and family and 60 chickens. I hope that you will get rained on, even if it is helicopter dropped pink goo rain.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Wow, I thought Celeste Barber rocks anyway, but good on her, with her following, that she's managed that too!

And Rambo, yes, thanks mate, got hay today & paid for more that I will pick up later - so as long as it doesn't get burned, I'm set for the year. 

Got the hay from up the hill - a town called Kinglake. One of the worst hit... well, all but obliterated by the fires in 2009. That was just about 11 years ago now, so while most everywhere has recovered, it still blows me away every time I go up there, how many ridges around there, this long after, still look like... an old man's crew cut - still nothing but masses of dead trunks, nothing else.

Just read of a fire captain in a place called Wytaliba who tells that there was NO fuel on the ground to burn in their area, after extensive controlled burns, and a big blaze in September, but accompanying 80km winds, crown fires took out their town & area, raining fire from above. Mind bogglingly so hot that his neighbour's car exploded before there was any sign of flames even!

And despite the Scummo spending heaps of taxpayer's hard earned on 'empathy training', the best he could manage when visiting the fire ravaged area of Cobargo(with an entourage of riot vehicles), when he met with an exhausted & shell shocked fire captain who has lost friends & his entire town, when the guy said he hadn't eaten for a day, was to shake his hand & say 'well I'll let you get back to it'....

It's not just the natural disasters that are making me sick to the soul & terrified for the future. But I'm not allowed to use those words on this forum which would better express how I feel.

To any others in the realm, the next protest is set for 10th Jan. And while it might seem feeble, our letter writing does count for something, so ramp it up! The chief CEO of Siemens - contracted to do the railway for the Adani mine - says they are now reconsidering after 30,000+ emails have hit his desk. Let us hope... and keep up the writing, protesting & whatever else we can do.

And to anyone who hasn't yet seen it, there's an Australian doco film called '2040: The Regeneration' that you NEED to see. It shows that, without any new inventions even, we already HAVE the answers to combat climate change already! It gives hope that it IS very possible to get through this, if only we can stand up & DO and also stand up & STOP the rot, from fossil fuel & other big business, who have been so very effective at stopping most productive & unified efforts. But we can't dither, it has to happen ASAP! Stand up people!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

& thanks Celeste, & guys, your sentiments are appreciated muchly. And appreciate the reports that you seem to be getting a... more objective picture about some stuff than the media wants to allow over here. I am fine here. At the moment at least, there's nothing doing around here. And we're pretty much prepared, if worst comes. Everyone in an area surrounded by bush, is on alert & as the rest of the country is mind bogglingly terrible, it's... a little stressy for us all.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Update on the fundraiser - it's now reached AU$5.5million, which is seriously incredible, especially considering it's just one of many fundraisers to support the firefighters and fire victims. 

The Irwin family has helped somewhere in the vicinity of 90,000 animals, too, which is a drop in the ocean compared to the half a billion estimated dead but is still 90,000 more animals than would have survived otherwise. Amidst all the chaos, disaster and fear, people show the best of humanity.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

blue eyed pony said:


> Guys, Celeste Barber (an Aussie comedian) started a fundraiser, and it's earned $3.8million Aussie in A DAY. I'm not allowed to post a link but it's on her fb page if anyone wants to give. Even a dollar, because every dollar counts. Even a share.
> 
> I am absolutely blown away by the generosity of people, in times of strife. Thank you, world, for everything you give. People are amazing.


This makes me so so happy. I'm off to look it up!!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

For Christs sake!!! Just got home & learned the... thing has set his RIOT SQUAD on bushfire victims who dared to tell him where to go!!!! 

My real name is Anya Lavender, if you want to look me up & see what's been 'going around'...


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

What the flip! I'll show him a bloody riot


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

To they who wonder about climate denial... https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/nat...6RLMhIzvtmiXpU1cQmoPSieteXaQQlt2DaEqiLr6U7FoU


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Of course there is climate change, our whole planet is in jeopardy. We can slow it down, but unfortunately there is only one solution. All qualified scientists know the answer but only a few will acknowledge it in public. Zero population growth is the only solution to saving planet Earth. There is too many people for this planet to support given our lifestyles and technology and consumption. But do you think that people will stop procreating?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

...And then everywhere you look, there is evidence that there are many decent, generous, caring people in the world...


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

We do seem to be getting quite a lot of news here in the US about how devastating the fires are, as well as the protests and discontent with the PM. 

e.g., on our national public radio: 
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/02/7930...y-get-even-worse-with-horrible-day-on-horizon

They also included an interview with a volunteer firefighter: https://www.npr.org/2020/01/03/793440669/australian-volunteer-firefighter-on-fighting-this-years-massive-wildfires
Thought he was diplomatic, to say the least, in how he talked about the government response.

It seems futile to say I'm sending you good thoughts, but we are following along and hoping conditions improve.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I am so proud of Australia and the world right now. The sheer generosity I'm privileged to witness watching these fundraisers' totals go up and up and up, and the bravery in the face of unprecedented fires... it's firefighters (paid AND volunteer; the vast majority are vollies) and ambos and police and the military, and civilians with little to no formal disaster response training, out there helping, out there fighting these fires and saving people's lives and doing their bit for injured and displaced wildlife. I wish I could do more from here, but I'm so proud of society right now.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

waresbear said:


> Of course there is climate change, our whole planet is in jeopardy. We can slow it down, but unfortunately there is only one solution. All qualified scientists know the answer but only a few will acknowledge it in public. Zero population growth is the only solution to saving planet Earth. There is too many people for this planet to support given our lifestyles and technology and consumption. But do you think that people will stop procreating?


And the countries that can least afford population growth are the poorer nations of the world who in the majority of cases have the largest population growth.

Climate Change has been happening since the earth was created. Some deserts on the earth now used to be water covered and some water covered parts are now dry land. The earthquakes in Japan and Chili a few years ago moved the earth on it's axis of the planet causing the wobble of the earth's rotation to increase. Which in turn changes weather patterns all around the earth. 

Forest and jungles in Brazil and Africa are being burned off for farming at an alarming rate. " the Amazon rainforest will be reduced by 40% by 2030 at the current rate."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_growth_rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_in_Brazil


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Wow! Not sure if yesterday or the day before, but that's *119.5 F*...


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

^ and that's measured _in the shade_


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

It was on my local news that Nicole Kidman & Keith Urban (as a couple) and Pink are each donating half million U.S. dollars in aid.

Be sure to ask questions where the money is going. There’s been more than one natural disaster that the money raised did not all go where it was supposed to.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/nicole-...ire-effort-as-fundraiser-surpasses-22-million


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I've been following Australian press about the fires. I'm shocked at the reports of arson-caused fires! 

Australia's arson crisis (updated) -

I read another report that at least a dozen arrests have been made and many, many more fires are being investigated. 

That is the worst part of this, to me. 

The drought is bad enough and hard enough on the environment and all that depend on it. But...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

It's difficult for me, up here in Canada under snow and mild (for us) temperatures, to imagine the sheer scale of the Australian fires. I don't even know what 48°C feels like, but to me, I imagine it would feel like sticking my head in an oven. 

That said, this isn't an Australian problem, it's a global problem. Australians are just the ones paying the price at the moment. And as much as my heart aches for Australia, thoughts and prayers aren't going to fix this. Even money isn't enough to fix the problem moving forward (although I keep thinking of the millions of Euros that were donated when Notre-Dame-de-Paris burned...). Each and every one of us must begin to rethink, reevaluate, and thoroughly question our choices every day if our children and grandchildren have any hope of having a planet left to live on.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Canada sent 50 firefighters to return the favour by the Aussie firefighters here last year and the year before. Although I was not at home during our evacuations, my children & horses were. Even from a distance, it really puts life into a new perspective. Only positive thoughts for you.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

boots said:


> I've been following Australian press about the fires. I'm shocked at the reports of arson-caused fires!
> 
> Australia's arson crisis (updated) -
> 
> ...


According to the article 40% are arson and 47% are accidental It is just that the drought conditions makes lots of dry stuff to burn. Fires do create their own weather .if they are hot enough . German and Japanese cities proved this in WWII with the fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

RegalCharm said:


> According to the article 40% are arson and 47% are accidental It is just that the drought conditions makes lots of dry stuff to burn. Fires do create their own weather .if they are hot enough . German and Japanese cities proved this in WWII with the fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo.


Yes, the drought seems to be the biggest cause. Also, I would just like to point out that the link takes us to a personal blog (the name of the blog is the author's last name), not a documented article so we should be careful about taking it too seriously. It may look like he has documented research, but notice there are no references given, just vague allusions to county authorities. I'm not suggesting it's true or false, just that in this day of mass information, it's important to differentiate between reliable sources and ramblings on the Internet.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

True it is just a persons article but he seems to be honest with the number of police arresting and charging quite a few people for starting fires and investigations underway in which more will probably be charged. The article lists the numbers arrested , charged, and being looked at 

In California they had the same problem a few yrs. back. And Pacific Gas and Electric was charged with starting the largest and most destructive fire when sparks jumped from wind blown electric lines onto dead bruch under and near the electric lines. . They were fined millions and PG&E now shuts off electric to thousands and thousands during high wind times for how ever long the company is worried about sparks. 

Some fires were blamed on homeless camps and illegal aliens to avoid detection. Yes some were probably accidental but some were intentionally set.

Now California is not on the same scale with Australia in regards to the number of fires.. You do have to question the number of fires that all of a sudden that broke out after last fall when only a couple had not been contained and put out.

In my way of thinking both California and Australia have the same problem in that neither want to clean up all the dead brush and trees to make fire breaks. Especially when the fire threat is so high. And once you move away from the large inhabited areas ground water is not ready available to pump for fighting fires and trucks and planes can only supple so much. 

I have my own thoughts on states and some countries that have unlimited water supplies close by but are in the form of oceans and seas. They should look at Saudi Arabia which gets the vast majority of fresh water from desalination plants. I think California should have went this route years ago instead of draining the water from the inland states where ground water is scarce and deep in the ground. But yet I don't hear any of the green groups arguing that point .


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Acadianartist said:


> Yes, the drought seems to be the biggest cause. Also, I would just like to point out that the link takes us to a personal blog (the name of the blog is the author's last name), not a documented article so we should be careful about taking it too seriously. It may look like he has documented research, but notice there are no references given, just vague allusions to county authorities. I'm not suggesting it's true or false, just that in this day of mass information, it's important to differentiate between reliable sources and ramblings on the Internet.


Drat. I knew no matter what I linked to it wouldn't be correct to someone. I can't keep up with what it and isn't considered a trustworthy news source. 

I generally find something lacking hyperbole (or at least reduced) and then try to being starts from several sources.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...8Fp9BLBIcWgD2p_LlYixOkFZnGkUzqsxv5IUI6eWmf4p0


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

boots said:


> Drat. I knew no matter what I linked to it wouldn't be correct to someone. I can't keep up with what it and isn't considered a trustworthy news source.
> 
> I generally find something lacking hyperbole (or at least reduced) and then try to being starts from several sources.
> 
> https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...8Fp9BLBIcWgD2p_LlYixOkFZnGkUzqsxv5IUI6eWmf4p0


It wasn't meant as a criticism of you, I just worry when I see a blog reported as an "article" even though it has zero references that can be fact-checked.

And I'm not trying to be a royal pain, but Breitbart is notoriously known as an extreme right Website that has consistently failed to fact check: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/ Even Wikipedia doesn't consider it reliable. 

But none of that means what you're suggesting is false. The article you link from Breitbart does _seem _(emphasis on "seem") to quote from legitimate sources so it's entirely possible that it it true. Sources like Breitbart are problematic because they mix in "real" news with more biased pieces to make themselves look legit. If I want to do research on a topic, I just stick to mainstream news sources and avoid Internet searches because they will lead you down all kinds of crazy rabbit holes.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Acadianartist said:


> It wasn't meant as a criticism of you, I just worry when I see a blog reported as an "article" even though it has zero references that can be fact-checked.
> 
> And I'm not trying to be a royal pain, but Breitbart is notoriously known as an extreme right Website that has consistently failed to fact check: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/ Even Wikipedia doesn't consider it reliable.
> 
> But none of that means what you're suggesting is false. The article you link from Breitbart does _seem _(emphasis on "seem") to quote from legitimate sources so it's entirely possible that it it true. Sources like Breitbart are problematic because they mix in "real" news with more biased pieces to make themselves look legit. If I want to do research on a topic, I just stick to mainstream news sources and avoid Internet searches because they will lead you down all kinds of crazy rabbit holes.


Lol. I generally research by going to government sites. Those come under their own criticism, it seems. Plus they are long and usually very dry reading. 

Anyway, I'm still horrified by the reports of arson, possible arson, and accidental starting of these fires


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## Tombo2440 (Jul 19, 2019)

It is a mixture of all the above at the moment. I’m located on the mid north coast of NSW and we saw fires rip through only 4 kms from out property a month ago. It was a combination of three different fires that all came together - one was dry lightening, one was an ember attack and one was a local back burning that got out of control. At one stage the fire front was over 300km long through rough territory. 

Usually we wouldn’t see the fires spread so quickly but, as others have said, the drought conditions mean that they cannot be contained. Rainforest areas, which would normally provide a natural buffer, are so dry that they burned too! You’ll hear the word ‘unprecedented’ at least five time’s a day at the moment because it is the combination of dry, hot conditions and dry, hot land. 

I hope that all is ok around you @loosie. It will be a long road ahead for you all. We had 37ml of rain over Christmas and the fires are still smouldering. The first one started over 8 weeks ago and although rebuilds are occurring (Team Rubicon and BlazeAid are fantastic on the ground, non for profit groups if anyone is looking to donate), no one has travelled away this holiday break as we are still on alert. So many animals (cattle, wildlife, horse and dogs) were lost and displaced in the blaze here. It is heartbreaking for all.


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## Equestrian Girl 3000 (Oct 19, 2019)

Stay safe! And this discussion reminds me of the Paradise fire in northern California.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

“Proportion of deliberate bushfires in Australia
The Australian Institute of Criminology found that,”on average across the country, approximately 13 percent of vegetation fires are recorded as being deliberate and another 37 percent as suspicious. That is, for all vegetation fires for which there is a cause recorded, 50 percent may be lit deliberately.”
https://aic.gov.au/publications/bfab/bfab051



"More than 85 per cent of the blazes burning across the nation are being caused by humans – and within that figure, over half are deliberately lit or suspicious, data from the Productivity Commission shows."

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/11/21/arson-bushfire-season/

"THECOUNT.COM "ALWAYS OPEN! Since 2005!" - January 6, 2020
SYDNEY, AUS. (THECOUNT) — A total of 183 people have been arrested by police in Queensland, NSW, Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania for lighting bushfires over the last few months, figures obtained by news agency AAP show."

https://thecount.com/2020/01/06/australia-fires-arson-deliberately-set/


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## Tombo2440 (Jul 19, 2019)

I guess it depends on what ‘deliberately lit’ means. Arson? Back burning that has jumped containment lines? Local burning on private properties? My guess is they all qualify.

We have had a long season of high fire risks and people have not been able to back burn regularly due to fire bans. Some people / farmers have panicked / ignored them and taken the opportunity to back burn to protect their properties. As a result, they have gone beyond their control and burnt hundreds (sometime thousands) of hectares. https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/11710978

As I said we had fires go through here only a month ago. We had one day last week when a fire ban was not in place and people lit up everywhere. It beggars belief!! I had a neighbour burning rubbish, someone back burning a few kms away and one resident caused a hundred acres of property to be burnt when his fire on his property got out of control. This drew our local volunteers away from the containment lines that they were monitoring because of the actual bushfire threat it still poses. 

Are they arsonists or just people who think that they ‘have it all under control?’


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yes Walkin - I hope the money goes to the needy people... & also doesn't let the gov't off the hook for expenses they SHOULD be using our taxpayers $$ for. 

I hope that while they should give money now to people who need it now, the vast majority will be held back until all damage assessed, as we're but half way thru summer & there are likely to be further fires. Also that some money goes to where it can best be used to protect us in future years, as something tells me this won't be the only 'mega fire' year. 

Celeste Barber's fundraiser is now up to $33mil!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

"Deliberately lit" includes controlled burns that got away, because the ignition point _was_ deliberately lit. Private burning of crop stubble, wood scraps, etc is all capable of escaping and if it escapes, it is classed as deliberately lit.

It isn't all arson.

There IS some arson of course, people suck, but those figures do include other causes.
@loosie I think your numbers are out of date unless you've converted to USD, cause I'm looking at it and it's almost at AU$41mill


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

boots said:


> I've been following Australian press about the fires. I'm shocked at the reports of arson-caused fires!
> 
> Australia's arson crisis (updated) -
> 
> ...


Yeah, I find it hard to fathom. And a few days ago one of our local CFA sheds was broken into & stuff broken & stolen. And yesterday, a NSW RFS shed was broken into & the... so and so's cut the end off all the hoses!!! What kind of miserable....


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

RegalCharm said:


> According to the article 40% are arson and 47% are accidental It is just that the drought conditions makes lots of dry stuff to burn. Fires do create their own weather .if they are hot enough . German and Japanese cities proved this in WWII with the fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo.


Dunno what article but I wouldn't have thought anywhere near 40% of current ones arson - there have been many started by lightening strike for eg.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

RegalCharm said:


> In my way of thinking both California and Australia have the same problem in that neither want to clean up all the dead brush and trees to make fire breaks.


It is absolutely NOT that they don't want to 'clean up the dead bush'. Although with... just the more heavily treed half of Victoria alone being about 65000kms - which happens to be about the size of country so far burned here. Which happens to be about the size of your North Carolina... it is impossible to think about 'cleaning up' everywhere. 

While the propoganda machine here has been busy blaming the Greens for vetoing controlled burns(yeah, like such a minority party could manage that anyway, and they SUPPORT burn offs anyway...), It has been said, time & again - for a long time prior to the fires - that burn offs HAVE been done, wherever they could, but a big part of the prob in recent years is with it being so dry, there have been far fewer safe opportunities to do controlled burns. The climate has made it unsafe to do so, for a large part.

And there have been many areas which HAD been cleaned up, such as one town which not only had controlled burns go on, but had a bushfire in September, so there was NO fuel left on the ground, and yet they were engulfed in a crown fire recently, hot enough to explode cars before the flames were even visible! It's just the sheer magnitude...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Tombo, I have friends & family living n the mountains near Byron Bay - one, a mother of 2 is in the RFS & experienced some very... hairy times. They managed to save their place, but the rainforest all around them is gone...


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

loosie said:


> Yeah, I find it hard to fathom. And a few days ago one of our local CFA sheds was broken into & stuff broken & stolen. And yesterday, a NSW RFS shed was broken into & the... so and so's cut the end off all the hoses!!! What kind of miserable....


Unthinkable! I really hope any arsonists and thugs are caught.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@Tombo2440 I should clarify . deliberate arson as in striking a match to start a fire just to be starting a fire. And watching the flames Pyromaniac. Burns that got out of control are to me accidental if it was a state or local effort to reduce the fuel for a wild fire. People should not be burning rubbish or other stuff when the country is so dry. 

Interesting to me is the idea that when school is out for the summer the fire rate goes up. So I am gathering that a lot of fires are started by school age kids. 

Now the person or persons who cut the ends off of the fire hoses would want to be found as him/her/they/them don't want their obsession to be stopped to fast. They enjoy watching flames. The U.S. has these type of people also.

I truly hope a Miracle happens and the fires come to an end.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

RegalCharm said:


> Interesting to me is the idea that when school is out for the summer the fire rate goes up. So I am gathering that a lot of fires are started by school age kids.


Yes and no. Bored kids get up to all kinds of mischief, but the weather doesn't help. When school breaks for summer is when it's extremely hot and dry, and heat lightning can and does start fires - the rate of this occurring also goes up during the summer holidays. So while some of them ARE kids' fault, the increase in fire rates is not solely their doing.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

blue eyed pony said:


> Yes and no. Bored kids get up to all kinds of mischief, but the weather doesn't help. When school breaks for summer is when it's extremely hot and dry, and heat lightning can and does start fires - the rate of this occurring also goes up during the summer holidays. So while some of them ARE kids' fault, the increase in fire rates is not solely their doing.


True lighting can start a fire. But every lightning bolt does not start a fire every time.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

blue eyed pony said:


> So while some of them ARE kids' fault, the increase in fire rates is not solely their doing.


I'd go so far as to say the very vast majority are NOT school kids. Maybe older 'kids' being dicks while camping accounts for more than a few though. A lot of 'grown ups' are off work for the couple of weeks after xmas too. We used to have some pretty wild camping trips in our 20's & the boys would do stupid stuff with fire. Including making their own 'fireworks' with aerosol cans!! Well, the last, until one exploded at a guy & he copped a lungful of the burning chemicals & died in pain days later in hospital. That was when they all grew up...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

RegalCharm said:


> True lighting can start a fire. But every lightning bolt does not start a fire every time.


Of course not. I don't believe anyone would suggest anything of the sort, or that lightening starts all fires. Rubbish starts a lot of fires apparently - glass creating a magnifying effect when the sun hits it, for eg. Cigarette buts. Power tools & mowers sparking. Cars & trucks occasionally throw out sparks - living by the Hume, a major highway, there have been many small fires started beside or on the median strip since we've lived here.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

"Bots and trolls spread false arson claims in Australian fires ‘disinformation campaign’ "

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...1pKTmx1E9srl3WWPM4IQj3mNubHhyzKL8r1-c69x3uaKg


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

loosie said:


> "Bots and trolls spread false arson claims in Australian fires ‘disinformation campaign’ "
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/austral...1pKTmx1E9srl3WWPM4IQj3mNubHhyzKL8r1-c69x3uaKg


This is exactly why I feel it's important to question sources. People like the idea of blaming someone. Better than having the face the fact that it is largely because of our planet heating up and areas drying up. Climate change is pretty obvious, and all scientists except a few outliers agree that it is real and having an even greater impact than predicted, but some still want to believe that the fires are caused by a bunch of unruly kids. It also helps those who do not live in Australia to feel safer because they think it wouldn't happen to them, or that they'd punish the culprits and teach them a lesson, or that Australians themselves are to blame for this. 

I'm sorry you're having to go through this @loosie, and hope it is over soon.


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## Tombo2440 (Jul 19, 2019)

You beat me to it @loosie - I was just about to post the same article from today’s news. We even had local rumours that people were starting fires just to loot. Although some reports of looting have been verified, it was not from an area with a deliberately lit fire. 

I hope the smoke there isn’t affecting your horses too badly.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Saw on Facebook that the Snowy Mountain brumbies did not make it? :-(


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Tombo, I guess you sub to the Guardian too - if others don't, look them up, as an independent, unbiassed(not owned by Murdoch) & honest source. Thanks, smoke's not too bad here today - we can't smell it today & there's actually a little blue sky & vague outline of the mountain. Tho my sister & Pommy husband are talking of going back to London for the improved air quality! 

Silver, I dare say there will be quite a few mountain brums that did make it, but yeah, Corryong region which copped it bad is the 'Man From Snowy River' country, up by Kosciusco's side. I now have 2 ex-Snowy brums here again, as I just picked up my ooooobese pumpkin from a lease home this morn.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

RegalCharm said:


> I have my own thoughts on states and some countries that have unlimited water supplies close by but are in the form of oceans and seas. They should look at Saudi Arabia which gets the vast majority of fresh water from desalination plants. I think California should have went this route years ago instead of draining the water from the inland states where ground water is scarce and deep in the ground. But yet I don't hear any of the green groups arguing that point .


Desalination has a high energy consumption and produces super expensive water, and it can very damaging to the environment where the intake is and where the super saline "waste" is discharged. So it is not always a simple thing to implement. Water conservation/efficiency and reclamation/recycling of what already exists should come first.

I totally agree that the way CA (specifically SoCal) set up its water supply was wrong from a sustainability perspective. Draining it from other places (including stopping its flow to Mexico). But I think the route California should have taken ages ago was to not allow such large populations to settle and build in areas that were completely unsustainable for water rather than expecting a water supply to come to them. They should have also been much earlier adopters of things such as:
–water efficient appliances such as low flush and dual flush (separate pee and poop buttons to flush) toilets. We knew one person in SoCal with a dual flush loo and they had to label the buttons because all their US visitors did not know what the heck the two buttons were for!
–xeriscaping
–water recycling
–ground water recharge (pumping runoff and wastewater into the ground to recharge aquifers)

Spoken as someone who has a PhD in chemistry (which is a lot more about how the world works—including all its environmental systems and climate change—than many people think), works as an editor mainly in Environmental Chemistry, lived in Southern CA for 3.5 years (2010 to mid 2013) as a NZ'er with "fresh eyes", and studied sustainability at UC San Diego Extension while there (which included many lectures about the water supply).

As NZ'ers, where we had low flush and dual flush toilets for decades before we lived in CA, it shocked us to see how behind a place that has never had its own independent water supply and suffered from droughts and fires was in water conservation and efficiency. All the overt wasteful use of water on inappropriately landscaped gardens, pools, and car washing. And the outright rejection and misinformation spread by those in power about water recycling. 

Now I know some of this has changed and improved since we left, but really, these systems and changes could have been and should have been done many years before this.

I did see many communities in the USA in other states that had embraced and accepted their desert-like environment and lack of water and had xeriscaping and pool restrictions etc. much earlier than CA.

I think when considering options, it is important to first try use what we have in a better way than create something new (as in desal) when the long-term effects of that could create future damage.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@MeditativeRider Good Post. Why couldn't the super saline waste discharge be dried out and the salt recovered? (Sea Salt).


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I too think desalination plants are a good idea. You cannot rely on rainfall or water conservation to make up for severe environmental conditions. Yes they can be damaging to the environment but i think if the government insisted on cleaner operations, it could be done with less of an impact on the environment. Certainly less of an impact then the devastation caused by all the fires. It would need to be implemented on a large scale with a considerable investment in resources. It would need to be highly regulated. 

This will be a wake up call. People are good about ignoring a problem until it's too big to ignore any longer.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

RegalCharm said:


> @MeditativeRider Good Post. Why couldn't the super saline waste discharge be dried out and the salt recovered? (Sea Salt).


I am not sure if anyone has investigated that but its a good question. Questions like that are always great in science to make people think of alternatives. Not sure if you have anything similar in the US, but here in NZ, our government has a science funding stream for citizen science. So anyone who comes up with something they would like to investigate can try connect with a local science group and together they apply for funding to research it. 

I will keep an eye out for it in my reading anyway. I guess it would require more energy input, which would increase the cost of the process, and salt is not a high-value product (or in short supply) to be making. Then there would be the question of what would you do with the now solid waste salt if there was not a ready market for it in terms of consumption. Would it be worse than discharging it as a liquid waste back to the ocean?


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

Back on the climate change/wildfire topic, the image here comparing the dryness of Australia in the past and now really shocked me. I have not visited in about 12 years so have not seen in person how dry it is.

https://theconversation.com/this-cr...m-space-before-and-after-the-bushfires-129450


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

What I'm hearing from my Australian friends is that management of the undergrowth has been poor for one reason or another for a long time now. From banning controlled burns, mowing, or moving/removing livestock off grazing areas. All of these devastating destructive fires have too much fuel to stop in addition to being a dry season. 

I am proud of how people are reaching out to help and hope it is over soon. I do hope it starts real conversations on management and prevention rather than what I feel is largely aimless climate change whinging.


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## Tombo2440 (Jul 19, 2019)

This article /statement on hazard reduction burns is an interesting read. Also, we’ve been waiting to burn off bladey grass on our own land for over two years. The conditions have either been too wet or too dry, or a ban has been put in place. https://www.google.com.au/amp/amp.abc.net.au/article/11850862


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

4horses said:


> I too think desalination plants are a good idea. You cannot rely on rainfall or water conservation to make up for severe environmental conditions.
> 
> This will be a wake up call. People are good about ignoring a problem until it's too big to ignore any longer.


Equally, you cannot rely on generation of new potable water to make up for a culture of water wastage where fresh, potable water is not viewed and treated as the precious resource that it is. If you give people more water and do not first change their ingrained habits of water inefficiency and rejection of other water technologies (e.g., water recycling and ground water recharge), you will eventually end up in the same place.

I hope it is a wake up call.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jgnmoose said:


> What I'm hearing from my Australian friends is that management of the undergrowth has been poor for one reason or another for a long time now. From banning controlled burns, mowing, or moving/removing livestock off grazing areas.
> 
> ...I do hope it starts real conversations on management and prevention rather than what I feel is largely aimless climate change whinging.


So far as I know, 'banning' controlled burning is pure propaganda to move the conversation away from 'mythical' climate change and pass the buck to the Greens. Beware what you read in the papers. Particularly Murdoch ones. Much money has been taken from the budgets of fire & land management services(as well as other essential services), so that they can hardly afford essentials, let alone costs for wide scale burn offs. Cattle were removed from sensitive ecological areas which were being trashed by them, like the high country, prob about 15-20 years ago. There were cons as well as pros to doing that, as with most things. 

I do desperately hope it does far more than conversations - still trying hard to avoid talking politics here, but suffice to say our government is STILL denying it is real - to a large degree... tho not consistently... and the fires are not THE issue they have failed completely on, but the final straw...


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

loosie said:


> So far as I know, 'banning' controlled burning is pure propaganda to move the conversation away from 'mythical' climate change and pass the buck to the Greens. Beware what you read in the papers.


The Greens even support controlled burning. 

The relative lack of controlled burns in recent years is because the window to do them safely has massively narrowed compared to 10 years ago. It's also partly to do with the continually narrowing budget to do them, but primarily it's the window to do them in. Conditions are less and less favourable every year. In my area we had total fire bans in _September_, it was so dry. The September to November period is usually our biggest burnoff season - winter is too wet, autumn is still too dry.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@MeditativeRider Have you ever read about the Salton Sea in S. California ?
And what happened to it.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea

for the fires that are close to the oceans are they using Copters and water drop aircraft to drop ocean water on them to help put them out. True it would be saline water,, but I would not think the little bit of salt would make the land no more unusable than burnt to a crisp. 

Salt content of the Pacific Ocean (35 g/l (4.7 oz/US gal)

If you want to use my question about the Sea Salt feel free to run with it. The simplest way would be to have sediment ponds and let the sun evaporate the water. Or maybe a reverse osmosis process.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Blue, you are somewhere around Canberra aren't you? Or have I got that completely wrong? How is it your way now? 

And as if I needed an excuse to go see Warwick Schiller, but we are going to watch a clinic of his tomorrow & he has announced that any money from spectators will be donated to the fire fund.

I just hope all this money raised goes to the right places... & some is put away for management & for next year too - because this may be the worst by far we've seen, but it won't be the only...


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

@loosie nope, Western Australia. We are cut off from the rest of the nation at the moment between fires and floods closing all three of the sealed roads that lead east. The only ways in and out are air and sea until the roads reopen.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

RegalCharm said:


> @MeditativeRider Have you ever read about the Salton Sea in S. California ?
> And what happened to it.?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salton_Sea
> ...


Just read about the Salton Sea... sad & scary. 

Yes, I think they do pick up sea water in the fire tankers - any port in a storm - but if they don't, I would imagine it would be due to worries about corrosion & electrolysis to equipment rather than worries about a bit of salt on trees.

And yes, I don't know how other places 'make' sea salt or whether it is produced from desal plants, but up north WA, at a place called Dampier('Red Dog' country for anyone who's seen the film), they have a thriving sea salt industry, using evaporation ponds. Blew me away, the literal mountains of salt, waiting to be shipped off, with giant bulldozers driving around on them, looking like ants!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Oh of course Blue, pardon forgetting - we only spoke of it recently - somewhere sth east of Perth? There was someone I'm getting you confused with who was around Canberra somewhere. 

So you've got floods there too now?? And a big cyclone has just hit the Dampier Peninsula just nth of Broome - a friend who lives there has gone inland for the time being...


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

South west of Perth. And yep. The cyclone has closed the highway from the kimberley region south, flooding has closed the inland road that runs through SA and the south of the NT, and then the fires have closed the nullarbor.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Knowing those areas(but not much of them that's off the beaten track) I find it hard to believe there CAN be so many fires along the Nullabor & the likes - find it hard to imagine the bush is thick enough to allow for significant fires. 

I don't have to just imagine floods in the desert tho - experienced a few of those first-hand - Were stuck near Tom Price for a fair while because of flooding years ago - thankfully just after we left Karijini - and a couple of years ago we were stuck at Millstream - right after a 'dry spell' for us, because we copped a hole in our water tank - other campers were perplexed when we put the awning up & then ran around all night filling & emptying buckets - we were stoked, as my husband patched the tank & we had it full of lovely fresh water by the following day!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

& I meant sth west - thinking Margaret River region...


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah I'm not that far from Margs, I used to work there  far enough that it was a killer commute but still doable. 

I'm not sure exactly what is burning, you wouldn't think there was anything _to_ burn, but I've seen the fire maps - it's a significant blaze that's cut off the nullarbor!


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

If you read something political in my comment, that was unintended. My point was that whether it is the Rocky Mountains, California, or Australia if there is an excess of fuel when the fires get going that is a scary situation that nearly always is out of control until it has run its course.

These are areas that became overgrown and then burned and started over again in a natural cycle long before we settled there. Idaho had a fire that burned 3 million acres in 1910, initial cause unknown. Management and prevention are needed to save homes, property and wildlife. 

If I knew who to call to send you the thunderstorms we are about to get for the next couple days I would.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^ Yeah, burning off to reduce 'fuel' close to... civilisations is generally regularly done, but many choose to live in isolated bush areas too. 

Ijust read an interview with some fire captain who said it really needs doing every single year to reduce risk markedly - even areas that were burned over a year ago tend to go up easily. Not only would it be impossible manpower-wise to do that everywhere but imagine how that would effect environment & beasties.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah looking at the map ive been surprised to see there have been lots of fires west of Alice - in what??


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

Update:

3 American Fire Fighters have died in the crash of their C-130 fire fighting plane.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/australian-crews-search-for-firefight-plane-feared-crashed


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Regal I 'liked' your post... but that's not appropriate so...

RIP to 3 of the wonderful rescuers from abroad. My thoughts with their families...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

No political discussions here please, this link just for information... I thought that, regardless what side of the political 'fence' you are, this clip is pretty much just factual, so OK to share here. It does seem rest of the world could well be getting more 'information' than our media allows us here ATM... apparently there have been protest demonstrations in many places across the world at Australian Embassies(Warsaw, Poland was big). Which is heartening...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Some Endurance & other horse people here may have heard of Dunc McLaughlin, an Aussie endurance rider, has had a lot to do with hoofcare education & also Easycare - you'll find articles & studies he's been part of, or written, on their site.

He & his horses are alive & well, & think his house may have survived, but his property just got toasted yesterday... after many weeks of threat of fire - I say a pic he posted about a month ago of his place with fire above the trees in the background, but his place was spared then. Then a week & half ago, after many areas finally got some good rain, he was finally breathing easier. Only to lose out again yesterday. 

The great Mike Ware of Easycare Downunder has been fighting fires himself, to save their place & the business for many weeks. He has succeeded, and even managed to send out some orders lately. Hope it stays away from them now...

It just keeps going on... I find it hard to fathom just how long, just how frazzled & exhausted these people must be. It is bad enough worrying about here, knowing we're at risk. Was bad enough in 2009 that it 'went on' for weeks...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Someone said it was reported that 'Snowy brumbies' didn't survive. Here are a couple very recent pics of boys at play, from the 'My Australia Downunder' FB page...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Great pics! Sad to see them looking so sooty and wondering what's left for them to eat


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Yeah, despite being a horse lover, I'm not a 'brumby activist' as such - I do believe they need to be managed/culled, as aside from damaging our fragile environment, when their numbers get up & there's no feed, they often end up suffering from starvation too. At least this mob seem to have started from a good place weight-wise, so they may have some 'stores' to live off...


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...

Here's a comparison pic of the Blue Mountains, west of Sydney. Fires until a few weeks ago, now floods... at least we're not boring!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

I only liked your post for the comparison, not for the content of either one


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