# grandson of the black stallion



## Sweeney Road (Feb 12, 2012)

There were 105 registered 1st generation foals of *El Mokhtar, and there are 306 registered grandfoals.


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

Gotta say, he sure does have a pretty head, very kind eye and I had a chuckle out of the add. Thanks for sharing


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Kinda funny that they are advertising in a craigslist area so far from home but I guess they are having a really hard time selling an 18 year old stallion who has done nothing but breed. 

There was a different stallion who played The Black in the first movie, this stallion's grandsire played The Black in the sequel. I prefer the looks of the first stallion who portrayed The Black 

I remember years back when there was a Doc's Keeping Time (black AQHA who played Black Beauty) daughter in my local area. Interesting thing about that stallion is that he was later gelded and played in another role with the gelding who portrayed Ginger (Horse Whisperer, the gelding who played Ginger then played the main role and Doc's Keeping Time was the horse the friend was riding at the beginning of the movie)


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## chelstucker (Jun 17, 2014)

Cass ole was the original Black Stallion. The trainer I worked with after I bought Oracle, was one of Cass's trainers! I always thought that was pretty cool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

On the topic of Hollywood horses, the appaloosa in the movie Run Appaloosa Run wound up in Winnipeg Manitoba. I met him, he was a tall handsome app even in his late teens.


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## ZombieHorseChick (Jun 5, 2014)

If that was close and I had the money would totally jump on that, lol he is super pretty.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

Prospect for when I decide to breed my Arab mare! Maybe get a fancy black tobiano out of her

(I'm also secretly fangirling over here)


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i think that is why they were advertising in az. its arab central with the scottsdale arabian horse show.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

he is pretty, but my first thought was if his lineage is so rare why so cheap ? $1500 . 00


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

stevenson said:


> he is pretty, but my first thought was if his lineage is so rare why so cheap ? $1500 . 00


I scan the Spokane craigslist (where this stallion is) from time to time because that is where my parents live and I advertise my mom's horses for sale there and I like to have an idea of what their local market is. This stallion has been on the market for a long time, same pictures being used every time and his price keeps dropping. He is 18 years old now, advertising depends only on his bloodlines as they make no mention of what his foals have done, how many if he has any at all, they say nothing about any training he has or how his manners/temperament is... There could be a lot against him as they is so little said about his own qualities as a stallion/sire. The pictures could also be very outdated and there could be a reason why they don't have better or recent pictures. 

Either there is a lot of negative about him that the owners aren't saying or they aren't wise enough to promote his stallion/sire qualities to help him sell.


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## MyBayQHFilly (May 13, 2014)

It does say he is kind and gentle.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Rare does not equal good.....not saying his ancestors are not good, though. Bloodlines tend to be quite clique-ish, and run in fads, not always to the betterment of the breed. Plus, we now have buyers believing that horses can only do ONE discipline, and certain bloodlines guarantee success. 

In the past, black Arabians have been bred for color only, and there are some sad examples out there!


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## MyBayQHFilly (May 13, 2014)

I asked them and he is not broke to ride and they sent me 2 little pictures of a filly. They said he is super with the farrier.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It smells of a scam. About a year ago someone was selling a Gypsy Vanner with the state listed. As luck would have it I came across the same listing but horse was in a different state. Out of curiosity I asked for more pics but of course none to be had, just an excuse. Email and let them know you'd like to come see the horse and will need the address.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> It smells of a scam. About a year ago someone was selling a Gypsy Vanner with the state listed. As luck would have it I came across the same listing but horse was in a different state. Out of curiosity I asked for more pics but of course none to be had, just an excuse. Email and let them know you'd like to come see the horse and will need the address.


He has been listed for a long time in his own local area (Spokane craigslist). I think they are advertising so far away because they are having such a hard time selling him locally. Odd that they would have an 18 year old stallion and only 1 filly for their breeding program... And only baby pictures at that. The market is bad but not so bad that a good quality stallion cannot sell for $1,500, which makes me think that there is something they are not saying... Low fertility? Injuries? Large conformation problems you don't see in head shots? Poor current condition? Hard keeper? It has been many months since I first noticed him listed in Spokane (before my mom sold her last available filly and it has been several months since that filly sold), he used to be listed for quite a bit more but he didn't sell for one reason or another.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Not all breeders who bred for black Arabians had "poor quality" horses, quite a few, actually produced fabulous horses. *El Mokhtar is/was VERY well-known and very highly regarded. This bloodline is not one that follows the fads. *El Mokhtar was a very well-built stallion.

It may be that the current fad for crazy seahorse heads, and the fad of the "Gazal/Psyche/Marwan-bred Arabians have taken over so much so that other bloodlines may not sell as well because so many Arab breeders/show people these days have tunnel vision and only look at the currant fad bloodlines and they only look at the horse's heads. The current winners at many of the large Arab shows reveal horses with horrible legs, but oh so pretty heads. Hence, the rather low asking price of $1500 since today's breeders want the freakish heads and the bad feet and legs we now see in the show ring, and the "fad" bloodlines we see in the US today.

I would jump at a chance for an *El Mokhtar horse, as long as the horse had a good disposition and good legs and feet.

Also want to add, I knew the stallion Blacklord Arabi, somewhat, and met his owners a few times... he was a really nice horse.... I see he is also in this horse's pedigree (the Craigslist horse). The dam's side of his pedigree is FABULOUS.

Anyway, nothing here to chuckle about with this horse.... I would say he is a really good horse, and the Blacklord horses were all very nice and very easy to work with. They lived not too far from me.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

*EL MOKHTAR


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I should have quoted......I was answering the question about why such rare bloodlines would only be $1500. I said I was NOT saying his ancestors were bad.

The only thing that I could tell from the pictures was that his head was cute. Not enough info to make a breeding or purchasing decision.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It this ad was legit, don't you think there'd be good shots taken to promote him? This is why I suspect it's a scam. Scam artists steal pics and info wherever they can. Asking for different pics is either ignored or some lame excuse is given.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> It this ad was legit, don't you think there'd be good shots taken to promote him? This is why I suspect it's a scam. Scam artists steal pics and info wherever they can. Asking for different pics is either ignored or some lame excuse is given.


Typical of craigslist actually. I have seen worse pictures posted in stud ads, dirty stallions grazing in a pasture as the only pictures. Pictures through fences, bad angles, out of focus, speck in the distance... You name it, craigslist has it. 

I actually emailed someone who was selling a paternal brother to my mom's black arabian mare who was selling their homozygous black Arabian stallion, non fading and all their pictures of him were outdated (winter coat and it was summertime) and poor quality (fuzzy winter head shot and one eating some hay on the ground, also in a winter coat). I emailed them because I found their information inaccurate, saying that he was pure Polish (he wasn't) and that he could sire race winners/endurance horses because his sire was a sweepstakes winner... The confusion of what "sweepstakes" actually means in Arabian shows isn't about racing LOL. I corrected/educated them so they could advertise him better as the sire wasn't a race winner like they thought it meant by him being a sweepstakes nominated stallion, but he was a multi 5 top region champion hunter who had a tragic accident while at the trainer's getting ready for Nationals. I also told them that the sire had produced a very successful endurance gelding who has hundreds of breed points for endurance racing, almost always came in 1st to 5th in large competition groups, even competed and completed the Tevis Cup with a young junior rider (read the article, she finished by herself as her older brother, who had been her companion, and his horse didn't pass the final vet exam at the last leg of the race. They were the actual owner but didn't know much at all about marketing a stallion (which is probably also why he was a teenage stallion with no foals) or how to take better pictures. 

There used to be a thread called "Dumbest Horse for sale ads" but was closed down as it really didn't "help" but to laugh and banter about how bad horse ads can be. My local craigslist recently had someone trying to sell a mess they made of a trailer for much more than it was worth in scrap metal... Imagine a 1970-1980 model two horse straight load horse trailer with the manger/lower tack compartment cut off, metal framing extended forward to lengthen to be about the length of a 4 horse straight load and a gooseneck hitch with that manger from the original 2 horse welded on.... Someone invested money and time into that bad idea and thought someone else would see its potential and finish what they started. Although one of the best ads shared in the dumbest horses for sale thread was the one with the very honest sellers who admitted that they knew nothing of horses but this horse was pretty tough because it hadn't died yet (horse was in nice weight condition as well). Many people end up with horses that know little to nothing about horses, then it becomes quite obvious when they try to sell or do any sort of marketing. Too many gender confused horses on the market if you look around craigslist, as their owners know too little about identifying mares, fillies, stallions, studs, colts and geldings. Even book authors have published books that couldn't tell the difference (my sister read one of these and it was very obvious that the author should not have had their characters be horse breeders...)


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

I would also ask for pictures of (whatever view). A scam will either not reply or will say that for whatever reasons they're not able to take more pictures of the horse. There's exactly a zero percent chance I would buy a horse with no requested pictures and no visit, and if they're not willing to attempt new pictures there's only a small chance I'd visit the horse, and only if I was in the area. 

Beyond that, being a grandson of "the black stallion" doesn't mean much to me. I think riding the horse would be much more enlightening. Whenever I hear someone reference a "black stallion" in a favorable manner I will always remember the child of my mom's friend telling me ALL about "her neighbor's black stallion that had a baby". Sure enough, the foal's mother was black and the foal's father was... not black...!


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Saddlebag said:


> It this ad was legit, don't you think there'd be good shots taken to promote him? This is why I suspect it's a scam. Scam artists steal pics and info wherever they can. Asking for different pics is either ignored or some lame excuse is given.


I do not think this is a scam.

I have seen this stallion posted for sale on other sites. What makes you think it is a scam? Just asking, not trying to be a jerk or anything, ha, I am just curious. I guess it could be possible, but the guy does give out where he lives on the other sites. And, FWIW, they do use other pics of the horse. Also, the guy is a member of a Northwest Arabian Group.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

As for using the pictures they did, here is what he said on another page about it, quote: "I understand that the above picture is not the greatest picture. However I believe in being honest and posting pictures of how he looks today instead of posting his best picture from years ago. Winter just got over here and he was all furry with a winter coat. He is in the process of shedding and it was raining the day I took the picture. He is truly a blue black and registered. If you have any questions please let me know."

If you followed the state of the Arabian industry closely right now, it would make sense to you why this black stallion is priced the way he is.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

DuckDodgers said:


> I would also ask for pictures of (whatever view). A scam will either not reply or will say that for whatever reasons they're not able to take more pictures of the horse. There's exactly a zero percent chance I would buy a horse with no requested pictures and no visit, and if they're not willing to attempt new pictures there's only a small chance I'd visit the horse, and only if I was in the area.
> 
> Beyond that, being a grandson of "the black stallion" doesn't mean much to me. I think riding the horse would be much more enlightening. Whenever I hear someone reference a "black stallion" in a favorable manner I will always remember the child of my mom's friend telling me ALL about "her neighbor's black stallion that had a baby". Sure enough, the foal's mother was black and the foal's father was... not black...!



In this case, however, the black stallion here is quite well-known and the sire of champions, both in halter and performance. So, in this case... a grandson of either black stallion, Cass Ole or *El Mokhtar, is impressive, as both had excellent conformation and both sired some very fine champions. I have been doing Arabian pedigree research since 1970, I would kill to have a grandson of either of "The Blacks", although sadly, with the new trend now in the main show arena, of only focusing on the head and not the legs or feet or performance, these wonderful bloodlines are not in favor with the new owners of the breed now.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Remali said:


> In this case, however, the black stallion here is quite well-known and the sire of champions, both in halter and performance. So, in this case... a grandson of either black stallion, Cass Ole or *El Mokhtar, is impressive, as both had excellent conformation and both sired some very fine champions. I have been doing Arabian pedigree research since 1970, I would kill to have a grandson of either of "The Blacks", although sadly, with the new trend now in the main show arena, of only focusing on the head and not the legs or feet or performance, these wonderful bloodlines are not in favor with the new owners of the breed now.


While the bloodlines might not be important enough for high end show breeders focused on winning Nationals to invest breeding, the old blood is very important to continue IF the individual inherited all the desired traits (type, conformation, temperament) to be worth using in the breeding shed. Even champion bloodlines produce flunk outs especially two or more generations away, there are no conformation shots of this particular stallion to even guess if he has conformation worth reproducing. And winter is long over, the pictures are not current, spring came early and my mom has her raspberries producing a month earlier than normal in Spokane. 

My mom is in the same area (Spokane, WA) and has several outside mares breeding to her stallion this year who is very similar in bloodlines on the dam side when compared to this stallion for sale. Both this stallion and my mom's stallion are out of Blacklord Arabi daughters, both stallions are homozygous black non fading. The market just doesn't have much desire for unbroke 18 year old stallions that have done little but be a pasture ornament, just goes to show that real value/desire in stallions is placed in what they produce and what they can do (training, career, show wins, proven to do something other than get mares pregnant as well as how easily they get mares to settle)


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Remali said:


> In this case, however, the black stallion here is quite well-known and the sire of champions, both in halter and performance. So, in this case... a grandson of either black stallion, Cass Ole or *El Mokhtar, is impressive, as both had excellent conformation and both sired some very fine champions. I have been doing Arabian pedigree research since 1970, I would kill to have a grandson of either of "The Blacks", although sadly, with the new trend now in the main show arena, of only focusing on the head and not the legs or feet or performance, these wonderful bloodlines are not in favor with the new owners of the breed now.


Fair enough, I am not familiar with Arabian pedigrees at all. Thus, I do suppose I'm the wrong person to ask  that said, we do all know that pedigree alone does not make a good horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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