# Continue to discuss if you like.



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I am not trying to start trouble, I just want to clarify for those that seemed to be so incredibly offended by my comments on the other thread. I was NOT calling any non Mormon untrustworthy or dishonest. Being a Mormon myself, I know my high moral standards will be the same as those of the same religion. I choose to do my business dealings of imortance will other Mormons for that simple fact as appose to people I know nothing at all about. I know many Mormons feel that same way. If this makes me a bad person, as I am sure it does not, so be it. I am free to protect myself in this way if I choose. Any discussion on this subject is welcome by me, I never meant to hurt anyones feelings. 

Please do not close this thread. This is a serious attempt at an adult discussion for those that want to take part.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

So Jesus would oppose (I assume you are just saying that word with an accent) people that he knows nothing about? How is that Christian?


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Nope, not at all. That's just how I feel comfortable doing things in such a big city. I do plenty of business with non Mormons as well.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> I choose to do my business dealings of imortance will other Mormons for that simple fact as appose to people I know nothing at all about.


I guess then that you just make controversial statements without having meaning behind them - such as this one. 



Whisper22 said:


> Being a Mormon myself, I know my high moral standards will be the same as those of the same religion.


Because apparently no one else can have high morals. 

Maybe this is why you get yourself in these situations....



Whisper22 said:


> I am not trying to start trouble, I just want to clarify for those that seemed to be so incredibly offended by my comments on the other thread.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

How does saying that Mormons have high moral standards mean that no one else does. That simply means I know MINE and those of other Mormons.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

You're free to use any criteria you like for chosing with whom you do business, become friends, invite to your home or into your life. My mother's family is Mormon and they are very much 'stick to what you know' type folks, so I'm used to that point of view and it doesn't bother me a bit. There are those who won't like it and will give you fits for it, but if you said, "I chose to do business only with those who have been in business for 30 plus years." they'd be raising Cain with you for that. Ignore them all and go play with your horse(s). Those who want to dictate how you should live your life properly (only they know what properly is, of course) are not worth your time.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Thank you for understanding dreamcatcher. I do like a good discussion every once in a while, though.


----------



## jinxremoving (Apr 6, 2009)

Religious threads don't usually last long because it's such a passionate subject for a lot of people... just saying!


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

That's why the other thread was closed, because so many people took offense to what I said, and that's why I felt it was necessary to clarify things. But, as you can see, people didn't care as much as I thought they did.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Whisper22 said:


> That simply means I know MINE and those of other Mormons.


Sorry, but no, you don't. You know the teachings of your church - you do not know the morals of other Mormons. It does not take much research to find lots of Mormons who have committed crimes, including sexual abuse or immoral acts, just as with followers of any religion.

You also make the assumption that you and the LDS church have the highest of morals. Do you think prejudice is moral? For younger readers, you might want to glance at a review of the following link to understand the prejudice of the Mormon church until very recently.

Black people and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't bring this up to be critical - hopefully this is all in the past. I bring it up merely to point out that the Mormon church is no different than any other church in that it defines morals by its own subjective standards and not from a universally accepted human rights perspective, and it is just as subject to criticism as any other church. I could post all kinds of links about child molestation, and other moral crimes committed by Mormons, but that is not the point. The point is that Mormons are no different than anyone else - there are tall ones and short ones, fat ones and skinny ones, and moral ones and immoral ones...


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Knowing that someone is Mormon is knowing more about them than someone I know absolutely nothing about. This is my choice, as I've said.

I never made the assumption that Mormons have the highest of morals, only that I know what they are and I agree with them. I might add that we also have a higher discipline for upholding them than most others in my experience. Most, not all.

I'm not even going to pretend like you know anything about how Mormons feel about black people and why we did the things that we did. I am most certain you would not understand and take it completely wrong. There are black Mormons after all.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

No, you don't know what the morals and values of each and every other Mormon are based purely on their religious beliefs.

I have said, and will say again: values and morals have little to nothing to do with the religious beliefs of a person and are not, have never been and will never be, inherently defined only by one's beliefs or non beliefs in any deity.

Each person's values and morals are their own and are shaped by their own predisposition, the community they were raised in, their family and their general life experience. To say that one religious group upholds their PERSONAL values or morals more than any other is a completely moot statement. Each person upholds their own values and morals to the extent which they exist. If I don't believe in the value of prayer, I won't pray. That's not me failing to uphold any values.. that is my value system! 

I highly suggest you read a dictionary and an anthro/socio book and determine the true meaning of the words you are throwing around, Whisper.

I have no issues that you personally like to do business with those of your own religion but your understanding of ideologies is extremely skewed.


----------



## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> Knowing that someone is Mormon is knowing more about them than someone I know absolutely nothing about. This is my choice, as I've said.


I never saw the other thread and wasn't involved but I think you have posed an interesting question Whisper. While I don't find your comments offensive in the least, although not seeing the original discussion I can only go by what is written here, I do find the above statement to be a little naive.

You are absolutely right that you can make your own decisions but your logic falls a little short of infallible by my calculations. If you believe that you know more about someone because you _think_ you know what their belief system is, and that their interpretation is the same as yours, and that they hold themselves to the same standards that you hold yourself, you may be in for a surprise one day.

All people, regardless of religion, are _capable_ of acting unethically or selfishly. Whether they actually do or not is the result of a variety of influences, of which religion may be only ONE. 

That means that extrememly religious people (regardless of denomination) may act unethically and atheists may act ethically. You can't take only _one element_ of a moral compas and decide that it is the one and only way to measure the trustworthiness of a person :wink:


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Obviously you do not know many Mormons, and that's okay, I don't expect you to. 
An active Mormon eats, sleeps and breaths their religion. This is something you would learn if you spent enough time with them. We are not Sunday Christians, we are Christians every day of the week. No, I am not saying if you are not Mormon you can only be a Sunday Christian. This is not to say that we do not make mistakes but our discipline for keeping the commandents is greater. I feel safe saying I know, or at least have a better understanding for the moral standards of other Mormons. To say I have no idea the kind of people they are because everyone is different is just false. If you were Mormon you would know that.


----------



## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Whisper22 said:


> I never made the assumption that Mormons have the highest of morals, only that I know what they are and I agree with them. I might add that we also have a higher discipline for upholding them than most others* in my experience*. Most, not all.
> 
> I'm not even going to pretend like you know anything about how Mormons feel about black people and why we did the things that we did. *I am most certain you would not understand and take it completely wrong*. There are black Mormons after all.


As to the first phrase I emphasized, to borrow a phrase from the movie The Count of Monte Cristo, "perhaps you need to get out more". I suspect from your picture you are very young, and your "experience" is very limited. Your statement is both prejudicial and ill informed.

The second phrase I emphasized is both prejudicial and offensive. It implies you can understand greater than I, which I seriously doubt. While it may hold true with some people, everyone that is not Mormon is stupid or otherwise incapable of understanding. The racial prejudice practiced by the Mormon church is well documented - by its own writings as well as others. It is clear, it is concise, and it is thorough. One does not have to be a rocket scientist - or a Mormon - to understand...

Again, the history position of the Mormon church is not the issue - it is merely a demonstration that your "higher than thou" attitude is not justified, nor is it well informed.

And I am not one that takes offense at any of your posts - I just take them for what they are...prejudicial and ill informed. There is no reason for anyone to really take offense - you are entitled to your opinions, whether they are biased and informed or not...


----------



## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> Obviously you do not know many Mormons, and that's okay, I don't expect you to.
> An active Mormon eats, sleeps and breaths their religion. This is something you would learn if you spent enough time with them. We are not Sunday Christians, we are Christians every day of the week. No, I am not saying if you are not Mormon you can only be a Sunday Christian. This is not to say that we do not make mistakes but our discipline for keeping the commandents is greater. I feel safe saying I know, or at least have a better understanding for the moral standards of other Mormons. To say I have no idea the kind of people they are because everyone is different is just false. If you were Mormon you would know that.


Fair enough.

Jeffrey Lundgren. Thoughts?


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

sarahver said:


> I never saw the other thread and wasn't involved but I think you have posed an interesting question Whisper. While I don't find your comments offensive in the least, although not seeing the original discussion I can only go by what is written here, I do find the above statement to be a little naive.
> 
> You are absolutely right that you can make your own decisions but your logic falls a little short of infallible by my calculations. If you believe that you know more about someone because you _think_ you know what their belief system is, and that their interpretation is the same as yours, and that they hold themselves to the same standards that you hold yourself, you may be in for a surprise one day.
> 
> ...


I never claimed my way of doing things is full proof. It has worked for me and so I will continue. You would just have to part of the Mormon community to understand. I have come across more ethical Mormons than not, that's all I need to feel comfortable. I know my share of dishonest ones, but they are few in comparison.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Whisper22 said:


> Obviously you do not know many Mormons, and that's okay, I don't expect you to.
> An active Mormon eats, sleeps and breaths their religion. This is something you would learn if you spent enough time with them. We are not Sunday Christians, we are Christians every day of the week. No, I am not saying if you are not Mormon you can only be a Sunday Christian. This is not to say that we do not make mistakes but our discipline for keeping the commandents is greater. I feel safe saying I know, or at least have a better understanding for the moral standards of other Mormons. To say I have no idea the kind of people they are because everyone is different is just false. If you were Mormon you would know that.


Really... What about this one? Leader of Polygamist Mormon Sect Is Arrested - New York Times So are you saying mormons think it's a good moral standard?


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Faceman said:


> As to the first phrase I emphasized, to borrow a phrase from the movie The Count of Monte Cristo, "perhaps you need to get out more". I suspect from your picture you are very young, and your "experience" is very limited. Your statement is both prejudicial and ill informed.
> 
> The second phrase I emphasized is both prejudicial and offensive. It implies you can understand greater than I, which I seriously doubt. While it may hold true with some people, everyone that is not Mormon is stupid or otherwise incapable of understanding. The racial prejudice practiced by the Mormon church is well documented - by its own writings as well as others. It is clear, it is concise, and it is thorough. One does not have to be a rocket scientist - or a Mormon - to understand...
> 
> ...


I have not been Mormon my entire life, trust me, I've been out plenty. I don't see how my statement is prejudicial at all. I have no problem with black, nor do I know anyone who does. Your misinterpretation of anything you think you know, is just that, a misinterpretation. I am certain that I understand greater than you because I live it and you do not. To help someone understand is not being higher than thou. To tell me that I am not well informed on my own religion when you are not even a member is a little naive of you.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Really... What about this one? Leader of Polygamist Mormon Sect Is Arrested - New York Times So are you saying mormons think it's a good moral standard?


:rofl: This is a perfect example of the ignorance that consumes people who know nothing of the Church. Thos are not LDS members.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> Obviously you do not know many Mormons, and that's okay, I don't expect you to.
> An active Mormon eats, sleeps and breaths their religion. This is something you would learn if you spent enough time with them. We are not Sunday Christians, we are Christians every day of the week. No, I am not saying if you are not Mormon you can only be a Sunday Christian. This is not to say that we do not make mistakes but our discipline for keeping the commandents is greater. I feel safe saying I know, or at least have a better understanding for the moral standards of other Mormons. To say I have no idea the kind of people they are because everyone is different is just false. If you were Mormon you would know that.


 I know people of most religious faiths... I have some very close people in my life who are Jehovah, I am related to very devout Lutherans and I have friends who are Muslim, Christian, Hindi, Buddhist and even Wicca and Atheist, to name a few.

Common thread?? They are all people, subject to the human condition. They all make mistakes regardless of what "commandments" are in their faiths.


You are a very naive, close minded person and I hope for your own sake you realize this... Every person is their own person. If a Mormon chooses to no longer be a Mormon, are they no longer the same trustworthy person?? Becase by my understanding if someone makes this choice in their own life, regardless of the value system they have if they are not "Mormon" anymore, they are no longer trustworthy, nor can their value system be believed by you. This is what shocks and appalls me and I find to be extremely discriminatory.


Don't drink the kool-aid!!!!


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> I have not been Mormon my entire life, trust me, I've been out plenty. I don't see how my statement is prejudicial at all. *I have no problem with black, nor do I know anyone who does*. Your misinterpretation of anything you think you know, is just that, a misinterpretation. I am certain that I understand greater than you because I live it and you do not. To help someone understand is not being higher than thou. To tell me that I am not well informed on my own religion when you are not even a member is a little naive of you.


 As long as they are Mormon, right??


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> Obviously you do not know many Mormons, and that's okay, I don't expect you to.
> An active Mormon eats, sleeps and breaths their religion. This is something you would learn if you spent enough time with them...To say I have no idea the kind of people they are because everyone is different is just false. If you were Mormon you would know that.


Umm...I lived in Utah for 7 years. I have known a LOT of Mormons, many of whom were entirely comfortable with cheating someone in business.

I love Utah. If it was warmer, I'd live there. But no, I do not think it was reasonable for the Mormons in Hyde Park Utah to worry that Baptists would poison their kids for Halloween. Although my roommates and I found the woman's comment "You just don't know about Baptists..." funny.

She didn't, however, when I stood up and came around the end of the aisle. She was our neighbor. We had helped her cut her lawn when she wasn't feeling well. She turned beet red when she saw me. We ended up remaining friends, although her kids NEVER came by at Halloween. "You just don't know about Baptists..."

I've known too many Baptists to assume a Baptist will be extra honest with me in business. And I've known too many Mormons to believe the LDS are morally superior to others.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> I know people of most religious faiths... I have some very close people in my life who are Jehovah, I am related to very devout Lutherans and I have friends who are Muslim, Christian, Hindi, Buddhist and even Wicca and Atheist, to name a few.
> 
> Common thread?? They are all people, subject to the human condition. They all make mistakes regardless of what "commandments" are in their faiths.
> 
> ...


Because I choose to trust Mormons over people I know nothing about, because I know their morals or at least what they should be, does not make me close minded. I deal with non Mormons just as much as I do with them, I just choose in what situations. I am protecting myself and my family since in my community it is so easy to do so. I'm sorry that makes me a bad person in your eyes. Perhaps if you had that security you would understand.



~*~anebel~*~ said:


> As long as they are Mormon, right??


Not at all, nor did I even imply that. That is extremely offensive.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

bsms said:


> Umm...I lived in Utah for 7 years. I have known a LOT of Mormons, many of whom were entirely comfortable with cheating someone in business.
> 
> I love Utah. If it was warmer, I'd live there. But no, I do not think it was reasonable for the Mormons in Hyde Park Utah to worry that Baptists would poison their kids for Halloween. Although my roommates and I found the woman's comment "You just don't know about Baptists..." funny.
> 
> ...


They still just sound like snobs to me. Every religion has them.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> I never claimed my way of doing things is full proof.



What as in 100% :???:


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> Because I choose to trust Mormons over people I know nothing about, because I know their morals or at least what they should be, does not make me close minded. I deal with non Mormons just as much as I do with them, I just choose in what situations. I am protecting myself and my family since in my community it is so easy to do so. I'm sorry that makes me a bad person in your eyes. Perhaps if you had that security you would understand.
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all, nor did I even imply that. That is extremely offensive.


 You know nothing about a Mormon you meet on the street either, beyond their religious affiliation. You DONT know their morals based only on religion. There is no defined model for what ones "morals should be" (wow what a closed minded statement!!) either. Morals are defined by ones experiences and there is no judgement system for who has the better morals. You are protecting yourself, from what? The honest Baptist who's not feeding your kid poisoned candy down the street. The fact that there are honest Atheists, Muslims, Wiccans, Satanists, etc around every corner?? I am not saying you are a bad person, I am saying you are a naive person. I do have security in my own community and in my own judgement. I do not inherently trust someone who shares my own religious beliefs more than a person of any other faith. I trust a person because they are a good person, regardless of their God or belief system.

You have insinuated it a few times...


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> What as in 100% :???:


Yes, as in the way everyone is making it sound.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> They still just sound like snobs to me. Every religion has them.


 Exept the church of LDS. Every Mormon is a trustworthy person with a good moral and value system, right? They wouldn't talk behind anyones backs, right? Because they are honest people!!

bsms is probably another ":rofl: ... perfect example of the ignorance that consumes people who know nothing of the Church. Thos are not LDS members.", right??


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> You know nothing about a Mormon you meet on the street either, beyond their religious affiliation. You DONT know their morals based only on religion. There is no defined model for what ones "morals should be" (wow what a closed minded statement!!) either. Morals are defined by ones experiences and there is no judgement system for who has the better morals. You are protecting yourself, from what? The honest Baptist who's not feeding your kid poisoned candy down the street. The fact that there are honest Atheists, Muslims, Wiccans, Satanists, etc around every corner?? I am not saying you are a bad person, I am saying you are a naive person. I do have security in my own community and in my own judgement. I do not inherently trust someone who shares my own religious beliefs more than a person of any other faith. I trust a person because they are a good person, regardless of their God or belief system.
> 
> You have insinuated it a few times...


I know what they should be, and that's all I need to know. I am not naive. I am perfectly aware that there are honest people outside the Church. I never claimed there weren't. I do what makes me comfortable, that's all. My entire family are non Mormons, of course I trust them. That's great that you have security in your own community. If I lived in an area with few Mormons I would have no choice but to trust them with important business dealings. However, I do not need to make that choice.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

> I know what they should be


I know what every person _should_ be. Doesn't mean they are.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> I know what they should be, and that's all I need to know. I am not naive. *I am perfectly aware that there are honest people outside the Church.* I never claimed there weren't. I do what makes me comfortable, that's all. My entire family are non Mormons, of course I trust them. That's great that you have security in your own community. If I lived in an area with few Mormons I would have no choice but to trust them with important business dealings. However, I do not need to make that choice.


 And seemingly unaware that there are dishonest people within it.

People are people, regardless of faith and you ARE naive for judging people based on faith alone!!!!


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Exept the church of LDS. Every Mormon is a trustworthy person with a good moral and value system, right? They wouldn't talk behind anyones backs, right? Because they are honest people!!
> 
> bsms is probably another ":rofl: ... perfect example of the ignorance that consumes people who know nothing of the Church. Thos are not LDS members.", right??


Uhhhh....my comment was referring to Mormon people, so no that's not what I was saying. Because I choose to do IMPORTANT business dealing with Mormons, somehow I'm saying that no one else on this earth is trustworthy or honest, just because that's my choice? Do you hear yourself?

Not every person, but most, to that last part, yes.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No you do not "know what they should be." You think you know what they should be. Someone can be sitting right next to you listening to the same sermon and get something completely different out of it. 

I'm with everyone else, it is asinine and naive to believe that because someone is supposedly of the same religion as you that it makes them a moral superior to anyone else.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

As a wise person once said, "I have alot of morals and one of my morals is never trust noone." :rofl:


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> I know what every person _should_ be. Doesn't mean they are.


Better than knowing nothing at all. I'll take my chances, they havn't failed me yet.



~*~anebel~*~ said:


> And seemingly unaware that there are dishonest people within it.
> 
> People are people, regardless of faith and you ARE naive for judging people based on faith alone!!!!


YOU have been judging ME this whole time. I'm sure you have preffered ways of doing things. This is mine.

I NEVER said their weren't dishonest Mormons. As a matter of fact I've said several times that there were.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> No you do not "know what they should be." You think you know what they should be. Someone can be sitting right next to you listening to the same sermon and get something completely different out of it.
> 
> I'm with everyone else, it is asinine and naive to believe that because someone is supposedly of the same religion as you that it makes them a moral superior to anyone else.


I think I would know the Mormon community a little better than you. You can jump on the bandwagon, but my way of doing things has never failed me.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> Uhhhh....my comment was referring to Mormon people, so no that's not what I was saying. Because I choose to do IMPORTANT business dealing with Mormons, somehow I'm saying that no one else on this earth is trustworthy or honest, just because that's my choice? Do you hear yourself?
> 
> Not every person, but most, to that last part, yes.


 No it's because you claim to "know what they (Mormon's values) should be" and make comments about Mormon's being morally superior to persons of other religions that I am pointing out the contradictions in your statement that "there are snobs in every religion". You are saying that mrmons are better people than everyone else, but there are snobs. One statement would imply that all Mormons are morally above snobbery, clearly contradicting your second statement.

So the last part: "bsms is probably another ":rofl: ... perfect example of the ignorance that consumes people who know nothing of the Church. Thos are not LDS members.", right??"

you agree with?????? Interesting...


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I NEVER said they were superior, just that I would rather not take my chances when it comes to important things. I deal with many non Mormons, obviously, my entire family is non Mormon.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> I think I would know the Mormon community a little better than you. You can jump on the bandwagon, but my way of doing things has never failed me.


I didn't say a thing about that being limited to the Mormon community now did I? :? :wink:

What I said applies to EVERY RELIGION. If you are dumb enough to believe that a person has the same morals as you _no matter what_ because you share the same religion... well like i said that is just asinine and showing just how naive you are. 

I hope for your sake you never get screwed over by trusting people just based on their religion.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Nor has mine, which involves judging people on an individual basis and not on some vague ideology....


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Whisper22 said:


> I NEVER said they were superior, just that I would rather not take my chances when it comes to important things. I deal with many non Mormons, obviously, my entire family is non Mormon.


If there are untrustworthy Mormons and trustworthy non-Mormons (both of which you have admitted), then what good is your screening procedure? Six of one, half a dozen of another, and by your own convoluted admission you're shooting blind.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> I NEVER said their weren't dishonest Mormons. As a matter of fact I've said several times that there were.


 *scrolls through thread*

Where???



I do have prefered ways of doing things - not based on peoples' religion, skin colour, sexual orientation or gender though.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

bubba13 said:


> If there are untrustworthy Mormons and trustworthy non-Mormons (both of which you have admitted), then what good is your screening procedure? Six of one, half a dozen of another, and by your own convoluted admission you're shooting blind.


 QFT and the point I have been trying to make.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> No it's because you claim to "know what they (Mormon's values) should be" and make comments about Mormon's being morally superior to persons of other religions that I am pointing out the contradictions in your statement that "there are snobs in every religion". You are saying that mrmons are better people than everyone else, but there are snobs. One statement would imply that all Mormons are morally above snobbery, clearly contradicting your second statement.
> 
> So the last part: "bsms is probably another ":rofl: ... perfect example of the ignorance that consumes people who know nothing of the Church. Thos are not LDS members.", right??"
> 
> you agree with?????? Interesting...


When it comes to the Mormon religion and knowing the facts, yes, we are superior. There is way too much negative false information out there and people would rather believe that than actually sitting down with a Mormon and learning the truth. That is the life I was born into.

I NEVER SAID THAT MORMONS WERE BETTER PEOPLE! GEEZ!
I know them to be good people, that assumption when meeting someone has never failed me, so why would I change it?


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> If there are untrustworthy Mormons and trustworthy non-Mormons (both of which you have admitted), then what good is your screening procedure? Six of one, half a dozen of another, and by your own convoluted admission you're shooting blind.


I am only repeating myself now, but I have already said that the untrustworthy are few in comparison to those I have been able to trust completely.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Admittedly I'm no Mormon expert, but I am friends with a girl who grew up Mormon, and the stories she tells are...interesting. When she dated and then married a non-Mormon boy, she had to go through official procedures to "divorce" the church, and she told me that she is now blacklisted as having a sinful, wicked soul that can lead others into temptation through her own evil deeds.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> I didn't say a thing about that being limited to the Mormon community now did I? :? :wink:
> 
> What I said applies to EVERY RELIGION. If you are dumb enough to believe that a person has the same morals as you _no matter what_ because you share the same religion... well like i said that is just asinine and showing just how naive you are.
> 
> I hope for your sake you never get screwed over by trusting people just based on their religion.


 QFT and just incase anyone missed it!!

EVERY RELIGION. EVERY SKIN COLOUR. EVERY SEXUAL ORIENTATION. EVERY GENDER. EVERY EDUCATION LEVEL. 

It is discriminatory to think otherwise.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Whisper22 said:


> I am only repeating myself now, but I have already said that the untrustworthy are few in comparison to those I have been able to trust completely.


Same with all people! There are more honest folks than dishonest ones in the world at large, but in the right situation, just about anyone can and would screw ya.

Me, I only trust white people. I'm not racist. I know there are some blacks and Asians that are OK. But I know what white people should be, so I feel more comfortable trusting them.

[Moderator note regarding the potential misinterpretation of this as a racist post: Race was brought up here as an argument technique, and not because the poster actually holds these views. See Reductio ad Absurdum for an explanation of the form of argument employed here. ]


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> When it comes to the Mormon religion and knowing the facts, yes, *we are superior*. There is way too much negative false information out there and people would rather believe that than actually sitting down with a Mormon and learning the truth. That is the life I was born into.
> 
> *I NEVER SAID THAT MORMONS WERE BETTER PEOPLE! GEEZ!*
> I know them to be good people, that assumption when meeting someone has never failed me, so why would I change it?


 
???????????????? Que?


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Whisper22 said:


> Obviously you do not know many Mormons, and that's okay, I don't expect you to.
> An active Mormon eats, sleeps and breaths their religion. This is something you would learn if you spent enough time with them. We are not Sunday Christians, we are Christians every day of the week. No, I am not saying if you are not Mormon you can only be a Sunday Christian. This is not to say that we do not make mistakes but our discipline for keeping the commandents is greater. I feel safe saying I know, or at least have a better understanding for the moral standards of other Mormons. To say I have no idea the kind of people they are because everyone is different is just false. If you were Mormon you would know that.





Whisper22 said:


> I never claimed my way of doing things is full proof. It has worked for me and so I will continue. You would just have to part of the Mormon community to understand. I have come across more ethical Mormons than not, that's all I need to feel comfortable. I know my share of dishonest ones, but they are few in comparison.





~*~anebel~*~ said:


> *scrolls through thread*
> 
> Where???
> 
> ...


At least twice.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

bubba13 said:


> Same with all people! There are more honest folks than dishonest ones in the world at large, but in the right situation, just about anyone can and would screw ya.
> 
> Me, I only trust white people. I'm not racist. I know there are some blacks and Asians that are OK. But I know what white people should be, so I feel more comfortable trusting them.


 I only trust educated, straight, white men in their 40s and above. I know that they should be honest businessmen and they never commit crimes!! I feel so much more comfortable dealing with this group of people only. But I'm not racist, or ageist, or sexist, nor do I judge people based on sexual orientation...... right??


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> ???????????????? Que?


So saying that we know more about our own religion is saying we are superior in every way?

Whatever floats your boat I guess.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Whisper22 said:


> So saying that *we know more about our own religion* is saying we are superior in every way?


I'm quite unsure about this statement. What do you mean by "know more"? And how do you know that other religious people know less? I'm not very religious, but if I would probably I'd strongly dislike the statement.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I think this is pretty ridiculous that this is so far beyond anyones comprehension, yet I'M being called close minded.

To know that someone is Mormon is knowing more about them than knowing nothing at all. I know what their moral standards should be, the Church is pretty clear when it comes to the Word of Wisdom. To say that everyone is going to interpret it differently just isn't possible. That may be hard for a non Mormon to understand, but that's just the way it is. There are so many where I live it is easy to choose a fellow Mormon to help me with something of great importance if I needed it. This does not happen everyday. I don't walk around on a daily basis searching only for the Mormons.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> To know that someone is *white* is knowing more about them than knowing nothing at all. I know what their moral standards should be, *white people* are pretty clear when it comes to the *white people morals*. To say that *white people* are going to interpret it differently just isn't possible. That may be hard for a *black person* to understand, but that's just the way it is. There are so many where I live it is easy to choose a *white person* to help me with something of great importance if I needed it. This does not happen everyday. I don't walk around on a daily basis searching only for the *white people*.


 To prove my point about discrimiation.... I've replaced the word Mormon with 'white' or 'white person' and other religions with 'black'..

Sound like discrimination yet??


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> I'm quite unsure about this statement. What do you mean by "know more"? And how do you know that other religious people know less? I'm not very religious, but if I would probably I'd strongly dislike the statement.


Experience, that's how. I grew up in a non denominational church. They gave lessons that lasted for months on the Mormon religion. It's scarry knowing what I know now, and what these other churches are telling people about our religion. 

There may be people that have taken the time to learn the truth, but none that I've come across. I used to be one of those people that thought I knew so much about Mormons and had a good reason for hating them. I knew nothing.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> To prove my point about discrimiation.... I've replaced the word Mormon with 'white' or 'white person' and other religions with 'black'..
> 
> Sound like discrimination yet??


If that makes you feel better. I think I'll be able to sleep at night though.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No one here said that they hated Mormons...


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

No one here is hating on Mormons. No one here is actually hating on anyone... except you, hating on non-Mormons which comprises a surprisingly large portion of the worlds population....


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I never said they did. I was saying what false information did to me.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> If that makes you feel better. I think I'll be able to sleep at night though.


 So we agree that black people just don't understand the white man's world! :lol:


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> No one here is hating on Mormons. No one here is actually hating on anyone... except you, hating on non-Mormons which comprises a surprisingly large portion of the worlds population....


You desperately want me to admit that I'm some racist, sexist, monster that goes around hating on anyone that's not Mormon? 

You obviously choose to hear and see only what you want.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> So we agree that black people just don't understand the white man's world! :lol:


Uh no, but if that will make you feel better, believe whatever you want.


----------



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

But Whisper, knowing that, say, I'm Christian ALSO means knowing more about me than nothing.  

Every church in my area offers lessons to study bible, religion, morals, etc. Are classes etc mandatory for the mormons to attend to get the knowledge, is that what you are saying? Not picking at you, just curious. Because in my understanding in other churches I've been to it's not something "required".


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> You desperately want me to admit that I'm some racist, sexist, monster that goes around hating on anyone that's not Mormon?
> 
> You obviously choose to hear and see only what you want.


 Nope. Just that you idealize and idolize those in your own church.

As do you, and every person on the planet. Which is why values and morals are a completely individual thing not based solely on ones religious affiliations.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> Uh no, but if that will make you feel better, believe whatever you want.


Originally Posted by *Whisper22*   
_To know that someone is *white* is knowing more about them than knowing nothing at all. I know what their moral standards should be, *white people* are pretty clear when it comes to the *white people morals*. To say that *white people* are going to interpret it differently just isn't possible. That may be hard for a *black person* to understand, but that's just the way it is. There are so many where I live it is easy to choose a *white person* to help me with something of great importance if I needed it. This does not happen everyday. I don't walk around on a daily basis searching only for the *white people*._

To prove my point about discrimiation.... I've replaced the word Mormon with 'white' or 'white person' and other religions with 'black'..

Sound like discrimination yet?? 

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/general-o...scuss-if-you-like-105963/page6/#ixzz1gLXm57l6


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

anabel, not really sure what I ever did to you. I would be more than happy to continue this discussion with someone who does not find the need to post things I never said or even implied. This was never about white vs black.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> But Whisper, knowing that, say, I'm Christian ALSO means knowing more about me than nothing.
> 
> Every church in my area offers lessons to study bible, religion, morals, etc. Are classes etc mandatory for the mormons to attend to get the knowledge, is that what you are saying? Not picking at you, just curious. Because in my understanding in other churches I've been to it's not something "required".


I would be more likely to deal with you, knowing you are a Christain than I would with someone who is not. If I had the choice.

It wasn't mandatory, but I didn't know any better, so I went. They never hid their feelings on the subject though.


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> anabel, not really sure what I ever did to you, but you're being a troll right now. I would be more than happy to continue this discussion with someone who does not find the need to post things I never said or even implied. This was never about white vs black.


It may not be about white vs. black, but the point she and others are trying to make is that religious discrimination is no different from racial discrimiation.

EVERY sex, age, race, religion, etc. has their share of "bad" people. To say that one is superior to the other is discrimination.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> It may not be about white vs. black, but the point she and others are trying to make is that religious discrimination is no different from racial discrimiation.
> 
> EVERY sex, age, race, religion, etc. has their share of "bad" people. To say that one is superior to the other is discrimination.


And this is going right over her head or in one ear and out the other...


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I am not the one discriminating against people based on religious affiliations, therefore am not a troll.

A troll is:
One who purposely and deliberately starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers.


So actually resembles more what you're doing... but I digress.


I introduced race into this as it is a more recognized form of discrimination in this country, unlike religion where those who do not belong to "x" church are unable to thrive in business or in their personal lives, as you have illustrated wonderfully. I am totally against religious profiling and I personally feel that in our world today peoples religious beliefs start a lot more wars than skin colour ever has. However for some reason in this country it is somehow acceptable for those of "x" religion to make discriminatory statements but as soon as race is mentioned its all of a sudden a big deal... $0.02


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> EVERY sex, age, race, religion, etc. has their share of "bad" people. To say that one is superior to the other is discrimination.


That would make sense if that's what I said.
I choose to trust Mormons in my area because it's easy, they're everywhere, and I know I can trust them. I don't really care if you think I know, that doesn't really matter. You are not me and you don't live where I live. I suppose I should just jump into every situation blindly so that I don't hurt anyones feelings. I use what I know to protect myself. I know Mormons and their moral standards. Again, don't really care if you think I do or not. My experience tells me I do.

If you want to get screwed by trusting everyone and their mother, be my guest. You have preferences as well, and I'm sure if we picked those apart we could call you prejudice as well. Only difference is I would never do that.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*facepalm*


Like I said before, I sincerly hope that your "Mormons in my area because it's easy, they're everywhere, and I know I can trust them" doesn't bite you in the *** one day, because that is exactly what you are asking for by only trusting these people becuase of their religious beliefs.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

If I knew of a Mormon that is untrustworthy and someone who just wasn't Mormon, obviously I would choose the non Mormon.

If all I know about two people is that one is Mormon and one is not, THAT'S ALL I KNOW, I am goin to choose the Mormon. 

That is not being prejudice, that is using what I know. Sorry that makes me a bad person.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> 
> Like I said before, I sincerly hope that your "Mormons in my area because it's easy, they're everywhere, and I know I can trust them" doesn't bite you in the *** one day, because that is exactly what you are asking for by only trusting these people becuase of their religious beliefs.


Yep facepalm pretty accurately describes the motion I just made.

I will keep trusting the people of various religious faiths in my life, thank you very much.

Don't drink the kool-aid!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> 
> Like I said before, I sincerly hope that your "Mormons in my area because it's easy, they're everywhere, and I know I can trust them" doesn't bite you in the *** one day, because that is exactly what you are asking for by only trusting these people becuase of their religious beliefs.


I never said I couldn't trust someone who isn't Mormon.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Yep facepalm pretty accurately describes the motion I just made.
> 
> I will keep trusting the people of various religious faiths in my life, thank you very much.
> 
> ...


Because you have never been a part of what I have, and don't feel the security I feel. Who are you to tell me that that sense of security is wrong? That tells me my church is doing their job.


----------



## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I always find it amusing when someone is trying to explain how great their church is, better than the church everyone else believes in, and they end up leaving a really bad taste in your mouth about that religion and its people.

From my experience, the vast majority of good people are more than willing to let you believe (religion wise) in whatever you want to believe with out telling you that your religion is not as good as their religion is.


----------



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> If you want to get screwed by trusting everyone and their mother, be my guest. You have preferences as well, and I'm sure if we picked those apart we could call you prejudice as well. Only difference is I would never do that.


Yes, I _do_ have my preferences in dealing with people. However, my prerequisities have nothing to do with that person's faith. They have everything to do with how well that person does their job and how trustworthy they are as a person. Not how their religion rates in my book, but how that person as an individual chooses to behave.

Feel free to pick me apart. I know I have my fair share of faults; who doesn't? I am not, however, prejudiced, and I will not limit affiliations with others because of their faith.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I always find it amusing when someone is trying to explain how great their church is, better than the church everyone else believes in, and they end up leaving a really bad taste in your mouth about that religion and its people.
> 
> From my experience, the vast majority of good people are more than willing to let you believe (religion wise) in whatever you want to believe with out telling you that your religion is not as good as their religion is.


I never said my church was better than anyone elses, except maybe my previous church that I have had personal experience with. I simply know my church and it's people. Of course every religion has it's bad apples, never said it didn't. My point was never to turn people to my religion, but to clarify a statement that seemed to offend so many on another thread, about why Mormons do what they do sometimes.



equiniphile said:


> Yes, I _do_ have my preferences in dealing with people. However, my prerequisities have nothing to do with that person's faith. They have everything to do with how well that person does their job and how trustworthy they are as a person. Not how their religion rates in my book, but how that person as an individual chooses to behave.
> 
> Feel free to pick me apart. I know I have my fair share of faults; who doesn't? I am not, however, prejudiced, and I will not limit affiliations with others because of their faith.


My preferences have very little to do with the fact that someone is Mormon. It is the moral standards and the stronger discipline I know to be true in the church. If I knew these things about other religions I would trust them as well, but I don't. I know mine and the community.

Like I said, I'm using what I know.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I always find it amusing when someone is trying to explain how great their church is, better than the church everyone else believes in, and they end up leaving a really bad taste in your mouth about that religion and its people.
> 
> From my experience, the vast majority of good people are more than willing to let you believe (religion wise) in whatever you want to believe with out telling you that your religion is not as good as their religion is.


If I could like this post 100 times, I would^^.

Whisper, you are really not doing a very good job of helping people to learn more about your religion. All you are doing is acting superior and giving your entire religion a bad name.

This whole thing has been very educational and entertaining. It's so nice to know that just because I don't adhere to any set standard of religious teaching that I am not trustworthy.:roll:

Whisper, I really think you need to go back and re-read the things that you have been posting. They _are_ discriminatory, they _are_ offensive, and they _do_ read like you are saying that Mormon people are more trustworthy than other people simply because they are Mormon. That logic is flawed.

If you honestly believe that you can trust one person more than another based solely on their religion, then that is _very_ naive, and someday it _will_ bite you in the ***. I only hope there is someone there that can laugh, point, and yell "I told you so!".

But it's okay, because I'm _sure_ the Black Jehovah's Witness that lives down the street from me is _much_ more trustworthy than you simply because I know more about his religion than I know about yours.:lol:

Sweetie, if you honestly believe that a person being religious means that they will be a better person than everyone else simply _because_ they are religious, you really need to wake up. I have my fair share of experience with the bad side of the population (of every religion, including Mormon) and I have made an observation. Those with the most to repent for are usually the ones that run around thumping on their bibles and throwing their religion in everyone's face.


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

My Mormon brother read through this and just shook his head. Says its a shame to see how a member of his church is behaving, rehashing an argument from last night that was deleted in the first place, for a reason. I couldn't show him the previous posts.

I'm no longer LDS. My upbringing was within the church, and I chose to leave based on my personal beliefs and for my discovery that going to a Mormon church doesn't make you more of a trustworthy Mormon than standing in a garage makes you a car. You are acting within your LDS stereotype, and even my brother could see it when he's on your side of the story. I suggest you read over your own posts as it would appear to somebody else and use a little tact.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

smrobs said:


> If I could like this post 100 times, I would^^.
> 
> Whisper, you are really not doing a very good job of helping people to learn more about your religion. All you are doing is acting superior and giving your entire religion a bad name.
> 
> ...


Smrobs, everything you just said was not what I've been saying at all.
In no way have I been acting superior just because I choose to trust Mormons over people I know nothing about. I'm sorry if that makes no sense to you. Makes perfect sense to me.

Never did I ever say that because you do not adhere to a certain set of religious teaching that you are not trustworthy. I know absolutely nothing about you, which is exactly my point. I don't if I should trust you or not. If you were Mormon I would at least know something about you.

If you are reading what I have been saying as being descriminatory, then you have been reading way too much into it. 

As a matter of fact I said being Mormon has very little to do with why I choose to trust them. It is there moral standards and greater discipline. If I knew of a dishonest one, I would stay clear, obviously.

Please don't call me sweetie, you are not much older than I am if at all.
I would also say you are probably better off trusting that black jahovahs witness over me. That is also a religion with great discipline, but you don't know me from Adam, so I wouldn't be offended in the least.

Again, never did I ever say I could trust someone based SOLELY on their religion. My point was not knowing someone AT ALL vs a Mormon. If that is sooooo hard for you to understand, I don't what to tell you at this point.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

This is a free country, and Wisper can trust whom she wants, do buisness with whom she pleases and associate with anyone she deems worthy. No one needs to agree with it. But it is still her right.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

ShinaKonga said:


> My Mormon brother read through this and just shook his head. Says its a shame to see how a member of his church is behaving, rehashing an argument from last night that was deleted in the first place, for a reason. I couldn't show him the previous posts.
> 
> I'm no longer LDS. My upbringing was within the church, and I chose to leave based on my personal beliefs and for my discovery that going to a Mormon church doesn't make you more of a trustworthy Mormon than standing in a garage makes you a car. You are acting within your LDS stereotype, and even my brother could see it when he's on your side of the story. I suggest you read over your own posts as it would appear to somebody else and use a little tact.


The point of this was to clarify for people who were offended. I never claimed to be speaking for every Mormon. If your brother doesn't care to think about the moral standards of Mormons vs people he doesn't know, that's his choice. Maybe you don't live in a highly populated Mormon area. I do, and I have that choice. I am also only speaking of things I would consider to be highly detrimental if I were to get screwed. I've said that from the very beginning, sorry if it still wasn't clear. Obviously if I knew of someone who could help me that I knew to be an honest person, but just so happen to not be Mormon, I would be more than happy to use them.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Taffy Clayton said:


> This is a free country, and Wisper can trust whom she wants, do buisness with whom she pleases and associate with anyone she deems worthy. No one needs to agree with it. But it is still her right.


Holy crap! Thank you!

I deal with my share of descrimination for BEING Mormon. If I make those people uncomfortable, who the frick cares. I don't think twice about it, and I certainly don't care enough to attack them


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> The point of this was to clarify for people who were offended. I never claimed to be speaking for every Mormon. If your brother doesn't care to think about the moral standards of Mormons vs people he doesn't know, that's his choice. Maybe you don't live in a highly populated Mormon area. I do, and I have that choice. I am also only speaking of things I would consider to be highly detrimental if I were to get screwed. I've said that from the very beginning, sorry if it still wasn't clear. Obviously if I knew of someone who could help me that I knew to be an honest person, but just so happen to not be Mormon, I would be more than happy to use them.


North Salt Lake. The both of us grew up in West Valley City a block away from the stake center. He currently resides in Heber. Neither of us have ever resided anywhere outside of Utah. I'm fairly certain we've been around a few other Mormons.

I'm not saying who you should and shouldn't trust. I'm saying that bringing up this argument once more isn't helping anybody- its just starting the same fight that went on last night.


As an edit to what you just said above, you're being 'attacked' because you brought this up again. Just let it drop, Whisper. Making a new thread for the content that was DELETED from the other thread was just asking for it. Not to say people need to be harsh, but bringing it on doesn't help any either.


----------



## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> Holy crap! Thank you!
> 
> I deal with my share of descrimination for BEING Mormon. If I make those people uncomfortable, who the frick cares. I don't think twice about it, and I certainly don't care enough to attack them


If you don't care, why did you start this sure-to-be flame against yourself? I'm afraid I don't understand. I've been lurking this board for awhile now trying to figure it out. Were you just bored? :? Yes, you can trust whoever you want, your choice, but starting a board to shove it in other people's faces really isn't complimenting yourself.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Then having to think about other Mormons probably isn't even an issue. Most likely anyone you do business with is. So that's not really fare to even pretend like you know where I'm coming from.

I'm not forcing anyone to be here. This is a discussion, that happens to be on Mormons. If you don't like it, ot "it leaves a bad taste in your mouth", leave.


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> Then having to think about other Mormons probably isn't even an issue. Most likely anyone you do business with is. So that's not really fare to even pretend like you know where I'm coming from.
> 
> I'm not forcing anyone to be here. This is a discussion, that happens to be on Mormons. If you don't like it, ot "it leaves a bad taste in your mouth", leave.


You just claimed to be from a highly Mormon populated area. I'm fairly certain we're in the same boat.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Tianimalz said:


> If you don't care, why did you start this sure-to-be flame against yourself? I'm afraid I don't understand. I've been lurking this board for awhile now trying to figure it out. Were you just bored? :? Yes, you can trust whoever you want, your choice, but starting a board to shove it in other people's faces really isn't complimenting yourself.


Do you people know how to have a conversation? I'm not shoving anything in anyones face. I suppose it WOULD be a lot easier if I just agreed with you. But that wouldn't be a discussion, now would it. 

Read my original post, and you'll know the point of the thread. I offended people, so I was clarifying.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

ShinaKonga said:


> You just claimed to be from a highly Mormon populated area. I'm fairly certain we're in the same boat.


Highly populated, but not like Utah. It's easy to find a Mormon owned business but not every business is Mormon owned.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Taffy Clayton said:


> This is a free country, and Wisper can trust whom she wants, do buisness with whom she pleases and associate with anyone she deems worthy. No one needs to agree with it. But it is still her right.


You are correct.

However, freedom is also governed. If freedoms impinge on other's freedoms, then that is not OK.

It's OK to own a gun, it's OK to hunt with it, it's not OK to fire it in your neighborhood all willy-nilly.

It's OK to have a religion, it's OK to go to church and be a part of that community, it's not OK to discriminate with it.



There are millions, billions of people on this planet who live in fear of prosecution and death because of their religious beliefs!! 
It is the same as saying "I choose not to go to Jewish businesses because I don't trust Jewish people" and if you happen to be German... well I think we all get the reference.

Just because it's a free country does not make religious descrimination OK. The US is one of the most highly educated countries in the world. Lets act like it.


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> Highly populated, but not like Utah. It's easy to find a Mormon owned business but not every business is Mormon owned.


I was supposed to know that 'highly populated' doesn't pertain to where I live? What you just said is applicable to Utah- Its easy to find a Mormon owned business, but not every business is Mormon owned.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> Smrobs, everything you just said was not what I've been saying at all.
> In no way have I been acting superior just because I choose to trust Mormons over people I know nothing about. I'm sorry if that makes no sense to you. Makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> *See, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Just because I don't agree, then the only reasonable explanation is that I just don't understand. I would understand if I was a Mormon, though, right? Hmm, superiority complex...party of one.*
> ...


 
All you have been demonstrating in this entire thread is your naive closed-mindedness, your religious bigotry, your arrogance, and your seeming lack of realization that you are expressing these things in 30 foot neon letters.

I feel sorry for you, I really do.


----------



## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> Do you people know how to have a conversation? I'm not shoving anything in anyones face. I suppose it WOULD be a lot easier if I just agreed with you. But that wouldn't be a discussion, now would it.
> 
> Read my original post, and you'll know the point of the thread. I offended people, so I was clarifying.


Relax, I wasn't attacking, I was expressing my confusion and annoyance in the softest way I could. 

The only point I really see to this thread is you to be annoyed at other people for not sharing your view point. That is in all, kindest, honesty.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

smrobs said:


> all you have been demonstrating in this entire thread is your naive closed-mindedness, your religious bigotry, your arrogance, and your seeming lack of realization that you are expressing these things in 30 foot neon letters.
> 
> I feel sorry for you, i really do.


 qft!!!


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

smrobs said:


> All you have been demonstrating in this entire thread is your naive closed-mindedness, your religious bigotry, your arrogance, and your seeming lack of realization that you are expressing these things in 30 foot neon letters.
> 
> I feel sorry for you, I really do.


Uhhhh.... Saying I'm sorry if that makes no sense to you, is definately not saying you don't get it because you're not Mormon. But that is a perfect example of reading way to into it, thank you.

If being nondenominational is ALL I know about you, and I had a choice between you and a Mormon, I would choose the Mormon. I guess being honest get's you nowhere on this forum. I also don't see how that makes me a horrible person.

OMG I am not insinuating that other people do not have discipline, only that I know Mormons do. I think you should really go back and reread everything I've said, because I'm just repeating myself with you.

You can feel sorry for me all you want, that doesn't really mean a whole lot.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Anabel I don't know how to use the quotes in posts 
I someone says...

" I choose not to go into Jewish buisnesses because I don't trust jewish people"

It might not be okay....But They have a right to say it.


----------



## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

> If being nondenominational is ALL I know about you, and I had a choice between you and a Mormon, I would choose the Mormon. I guess being honest get's you nowhere on this forum. I also don't see how that makes me a horrible person.


Honesty will get you a long ways, however being rude to a lot of people at once is usually like sticking your butt in the fire and hoping it doesn't burn. :lol:


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

I suppose eeny meeny miny moe is the way to do things, when there is absolutely nothing else to go off of but someones religion. I'm such a monster!


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> OMG I am not insinuating that other people do not have discipline, only that I know Mormons do. I think you should really go back and reread everything I've said, because I'm just repeating myself with you.


 
You _don't_ know that any given Mormon will have more discipline than any given other person. 

That is _bigotry_ in it's basest form, to state that only one group of people are better than every other group of people simply because they are all a part of some certain group.

Repeating that the world is flat and the sky is purple over and over wouldn't make it any more true.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Maybe try "Angieslist.com" if you're having trouble deciding. You know, reading reviews on businesses like the rest of us.

Or you could just phone them and ask what their religious beliefs are and base your decision on that!! "Oh, your Pastafarian, well I don't agree with the teachings of FSM so I wont be needing your services. The teachings of His Noodly Appendage are simply not strict enough."


Have a nice life. And a piece of advice, try to avoid international travel, I already have enough trouble convincing people of other cultures that Americans aren't bigots I don't need more of you flying around and shoving your precious religion in the faces of other cultures.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

smrobs said:


> You _don't_ know that any given Mormon will have more discipline than any given other person.
> 
> That is _bigotry_ in it's basest form, to state that only one group of people are better than every other group of people simply because they are all a part of some certain group.
> 
> Repeating that the world is flat and the sky is purple over and over wouldn't make it any more true.


That would be great if that's what I said.

I am Mormon. I know Mormon people and the moral standards they should hold. No, I can not be certain, but that is better than going in completely blind. You are choosing to blow this way out of proportion .

Here's a scenario for you. Say you have the opportunity to do business with two people. One is a known Satanist and the other is a known Christian. This is ALL you know about them. I'm guessing you would be all too happy to give that Satanist the benefit of the doubt, right? We're talking about someone who worships the father of lies.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Maybe try "Angieslist.com" if you're having trouble deciding. You know, reading reviews on businesses like the rest of us.
> 
> Or you could just phone them and ask what their religious beliefs are and base your decision on that!! "Oh, your Pastafarian, well I don't agree with the teachings of FSM so I wont be needing your services. The teachings of His Noodly Appendage are simply not strict enough."
> 
> ...


I wasn't shoving anything. I'm sorry you couldn't take part in a simple discussion without feeling that way.


----------



## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Whisper22 said:


> That would be great if that's what I said.
> 
> I am Mormon. I know Mormon people and the moral standards they should hold. No, I can not be certain, but that is better than going in completely blind. You are choosing to blow this way out of proportion .
> 
> Here's a scenario for you. Say you have the opportunity to do business with two people. One is a known Satanist and the other is a known Christian. This is ALL you know about them. I'm guessing you would be all too happy to give that Satanist the benefit of the doubt, right? We're talking about someone who worships the father of lies.


BWAHAHAHAHA
Do you EVEN KNOW what Satanism IS???

Pot, meet kettle. And here's a Wikipedia article Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And just to let you know, especially after your little trolling episode I would for sure deal with the Satanist before the Christian....


----------



## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

I personally like Stanism better. 

LOL no, in all honesty- their religion doesn't matter to me... more like what's on sale and who has the better prices. Thats smart business.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

smrobs said:


> You _don't_ know that any given Mormon will have more discipline than any given other person.
> 
> That is _bigotry_ in it's basest form, to state that only one group of people are better than every other group of people simply because they are all a part of some certain group.
> 
> Repeating that the world is flat and the sky is purple over and over wouldn't make it any more true.


You are choosing to read it as bigotry. I never said my group was better than anything elses, only that I know mine, and choose to stick with what I know.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> BWAHAHAHAHA
> Do you EVEN KNOW what Satanism IS???
> 
> Pot, meet kettle. And here's a Wikipedia article Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Well that sounds like you just need to take a deep breath. Holy cow!

I'm pretty sure we DO NOT worship the father of lies.

Of course you would.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Tianimalz said:


> I personally like Stanism better.
> 
> LOL no, in all honesty- their religion doesn't matter to me... more like what's on sale and who has the better prices. Thats smart business.


I should have been more specific. I am only referring to important business dealing, where it would really suck to get screwed. Like if you need a doctor or a lawyer or someone to fix your car.


----------



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Satanists don't worship Satan. Do your research. They're "enlightened" atheists who poke fun at people like you, Whisper, while still living moral, ethical lives. At least those are their teachings.


----------



## paintsrule (Aug 20, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> That would be great if that's what I said.
> 
> I am Mormon. I know Mormon people and the moral standards they should hold. No, I can not be certain, but that is better than going in completely blind. You are choosing to blow this way out of proportion .
> 
> Here's a scenario for you. Say you have the opportunity to do business with two people. One is a known Satanist and the other is a known Christian. This is ALL you know about them. I'm guessing you would be all too happy to give that Satanist the benefit of the doubt, right? We're talking about someone who worships the father of lies.


But the thing is, you are talking about BUISNESS here, and thats it. Even if you do buisness with a satanist or satan himself, that should have no effect on the goings on of that buisness deal. You're not sitting down and having dinner with them or going to church with them or having them babysit your kids, you're just dealing professionally in a buisness venture.

The way they do buisness has nothing to do with their religion. Its not like they dial up their God to ask if they should give you a 25 or 50 percent discount. Their religion doesnt come into the buisness deals because religion is completely seperate from professional dealings. Morals and values dont come from religion they come from a persons idea of right and wrong and what they THINK they should or shouldnt do in their buisness based on their own decisions and upbringing. I have dealt with many different people professionally in my life, and there have been honest and dishonest ones. i have never stopped to ask them "hey, happen to be Baptist?" before though, because in all honesty, I dont think that would effect anything.

The same "disciplined" mormon you trust to handle your buisness just because hes mormon could cheat you out of your assests while the perfectly honest athesist could be sitting in the next office over actually helping people and doing his job, all the while wondering whats wrong with the woman walking around with her nose in the air asking people about their religous affilations all the while getting cheated because shes to blind to see religion does not equal morals. They are two seperate sections of ideology, and also one you apparently cannot grasp.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> I should have been more specific. I am only referring to important business dealing, where it would really suck to get screwed. Like if you need a doctor or a lawyer or someone to fix your car.


I would _never_ base important business dealings on whether or not someone is a particular religious denomination. What I _will_ base my decisions on are testimonials from their customers, and other professionals in their peer group. 

I couldn't care less what religious doctrine someone espouses. Just because someone is saying something with their mouth doesn't mean they actually believe or even _follow_ those doctrines.

If you do the proper research and due diligence, what religious denomination they are matters as much as their sexual preferences. Which is _not at all_ when it comes to professional services.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Satanists don't worship Satan. Do your research. They're "enlightened" atheists who poke fun at people like you, Whisper, while still living moral, ethical lives. At least those are their teachings.


There are all different kinds. Think of the worst one.



paintsrule said:


> But the thing is, you are talking about BUISNESS here, and thats it. Even if you do buisness with a satanist or satan himself, that should have no effect on the goings on of that buisness deal. You're not sitting down and having dinner with them or going to church with them or having them babysit your kids, you're just dealing professionally in a buisness venture.
> 
> The way they do buisness has nothing to do with their religion. Its not like they dial up their God to ask if they should give you a 25 or 50 percent discount. Their religion doesnt come into the buisness deals because religion is completely seperate from professional dealings. Morals and values dont come from religion they come from a persons idea of right and wrong and what they THINK they should or shouldnt do in their buisness based on their own decisions and upbringing. I have dealt with many different people professionally in my life, and there have been honest and dishonest ones. i have never stopped to ask them "hey, happen to be Baptist?" before though, because in all honesty, I dont think that would effect anything.
> 
> The same "disciplined" mormon you trust to handle your buisness just because hes mormon could cheat you out of your assests while the perfectly honest athesist could be sitting in the next office over actually helping people and doing his job, all the while wondering whats wrong with the woman walking around with her nose in the air asking people about their religous affilations all the while getting cheated because shes to blind to see religion does not equal morals. They are two seperate sections of ideology, and also one you apparently cannot grasp.


I would definately not want to do business with a liar, maybe that's just me.
I never said, for about the millionth time, there were no dishonest Mormons. My experience tells me I am better off going that route than with someone I know nothing about.


----------



## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> I should have been more specific. I am only referring to important business dealing, where it would really suck to get screwed. Like if you need a doctor or a lawyer or someone to fix your car.



Pretty sure that just about everyone wants to make money, regardless of religion (save a few, but even then if they're in business- bring in the money!!). You're argument makes no sense by saying everyone but God fearing Christians want to screw you out of money.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> I would _never_ base important business dealings on whether or not someone is a particular religious denomination. What I _will_ base my decisions on are testimonials from their customers, and other professionals in their peer group.
> 
> I couldn't care less what religious doctrine someone espouses. Just because someone is saying something with their mouth doesn't mean they actually believe or even _follow_ those doctrines.
> 
> If you do the proper research and due diligence, what religious denomination they are matters as much as their sexual preferences. Which is _not at all_ when it comes to professional services.


There are not testimonials for everything and for the things there are, they are usually a mixture of good and bad. Other than that I believe in doing my research, but when no conclusion can be met, I go off of what I already know. If that is that they are Mormon, so what?

If someone worshipped satan, I'm guessing they wouldn't have a problem with lying. Maybe that's just me, and that would definately keep me from doing business with them.


----------



## paintsrule (Aug 20, 2009)

Whisper22 said:


> I would definately not want to do business with a liar, maybe that's just me.


Okay? It's probably best not to trust anyone then, even the high and mighty Mormons, because i can guarentee they've lied to you, and many will continue to do so. Being mormon doesnt make them glow rainbows and fart niceness and honesty 24-7, just like being a satanist doesnt make you sleep in coffins and pray to Satan while throwing darts at a bible and harming little children.

Buisness does not equal religion. religion does not equal good morals. good morals DO NOT equal mormon, a 100 (or even a relatively high) percent of the time.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Whisper22 said:


> I am Mormon. I know Mormon people and the moral standards they *should *hold.


And there we have it, until God/Allah/Jehovah/Buddah/Satan/Thepurplepeopleeater or who ever puts a window on our body so you can actually see into peoples hearts and minds you don't know and you can't know what is inside them.

You know what moral standards that a Mormon SHOULD hold, not what they DO hold.

I can tell you this, the most compassionate, honest, and in all respects moral and Christian man I know is my eldest son David, and he has not been inside of a church for many is the year. That lets me know that the good people aren't all in church, so by reasoning not all the bad people are outside of it, just ask the Catholics:wink:


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Tianimalz said:


> Pretty sure that just about everyone wants to make money, regardless of religion (save a few, but even then if they're in business- bring in the money!!). You're argument makes no sense by saying everyone but God fearing Christians want to screw you out of money.


That's not what I said at all. I'm asking if that's all you knew, and you had to make a decision.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> And there we have it, until God/Allah/Jehovah/Buddah/Satan/Thepurplepeopleeater or who ever puts a window on our body so you can actually see into peoples hearts and minds you don't know and you can't know what is inside them.
> 
> You know what moral standards that a Mormon SHOULD hold, not what they DO hold.
> 
> I can tell you this, the most compassionate, honest, and in all respects moral and Christian man I know is my eldest son David, and he has not been inside of a church for many is the year. That lets me know that the good people aren't all in church, so by reasoning not all the bad people are outside of it, just ask the Catholics:wink:


That's great GH, but I wouldn't know that, because I do not know him. If all I have to go off of is the moral standards they SHOULD hold vs nothing at all, I'm gonna go with what I know.


----------



## Whisper22 (Jan 2, 2011)

paintsrule said:


> Whisper22 said:
> 
> 
> > I would definately not want to do business with a liar, maybe that's just me.
> ...


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

OK .... we've received several reports about who is insulting who and said what. I just hurt my eyes reading and re reading the last several pages. It is going in a circle and enough is enough.

I'm closing this thread and I'm giving a warning to all involved not to revive this elsewhere. This is not what the forum is about. A discussion is a discussion but when it degrades to what this has become, it's time to go away.


----------

