# Home Bound Horse



## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Maybe I'm stuck up about my discipline, but I do believe that trail horses need a different kind of training. I can't give you any suggestions because I would have to see the horse. Does he seem more herd bound or more barn sour? Is this new behavior or has he always been this way?

I will say that one of the best ways to train a trail horse is to just get out there and ride him. Let's see what everybody else says and get you on the trail.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

He has been on-and-off herd sour and home bound, but this year, it seems like it has gotten worse. 

He really seems both. I trail ride alone, he wants to head back to the trailer. I trail ride with others, he is stubborn about moving away from other horses. I've been trail riding him more, and the last two times I rode him he acted rather stupidly (for him).

In one instance, we were in the back of the group and heading home. Rusty was moving out and paying attention to the other horses. He got a little behind, and we went down this rocky, sort of steep hill. I asked him to slow down at the top of the hill because I know he has this tendency to want to run down them. He went down, leaped to the other side of the steep hill over a crevice, and almost took himself down. 

The next time we went, we were riding with a female horse. She was leading because he was being stubborn about leading and crossing water. There was a deer, and normally deer cause him no more than a startle, if that. The mare jumped a bit, and Rusty whirled around and tried to take off. I almost fell off. He hardly ever exhibits this type of behavior EXCEPT when he isn't paying attention to getting home or other horses. 

This horse is better alone with lots of stimulation, honestly. He's been perfect in every parade we've had him in, where he's walked without any other horses. Both times, I've ridden with businesses by a car, and I've thrown candy out of a plastic bag on the saddle horn with screaming kids and barking dogs. Doesn't faze him. 

I don't know if I'm being harsh on him, but half the time I swear he spooks just because he's fooling around. The only thing he doesn't like is bikes, but he tolerates them unless he's worrying about other horses or getting back. 

I love trail riding, but I am sick of him being pokey and stubborn. Love this horse, and he's great in an arena where there's no "home" or "trailer", but on the trails, he's just obnoxious. With winter coming and colder weather in Iowa, I will not be getting a lot of trail riding in until spring, unfortunately.


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

You're not going to like what I'm going to say. Rusty is not safe. Until you get this sorted out you are risking your safety going out on the trails with him. I cant imagine that he is "good" in the arena yet not listening to you to the point of being dangerous on the trails. Id be interested to know more details ofn what you ask from him in the arena and if you can consistently control when; where; and at what speed he moves his feet. Can you yield his hindquarters without any opposition or bracing? Have you taught him an emergency stop? Are you training in relaxation? All of these things and more need to be solid before you can expect to have control on the trails. Do you have a trainer to work with? 
This isn't a quick--do this-do that-- or a few exercises to "fix". There are some major holes in the foundation. 
Good luck.please stay safe. 
Fay


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you have described a whole set of circumstances where he does this or that. where are YOU in all that? he is making way, way too many choices on his own. 

you need to stop traile riding and start RIDE riding. that means your objective is not going down the trail, but getting yoiur horse listening and doing exactly what you say, and not just kind of going in a similar direction , at a good enough speed.

you need to shake up his world and pretend you are someone else getting on your horse, someone who is shocked at this bad behavior and decides to give the horse a new reality.


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

These are good answers. But a trail horse needs the proper motivation. Because we are using our horses in a more natural setting, also we are needing to have more of a "partner" relationship when we ride, the trail horse needs to be motivated to get out on the trail. Going back to basics is always a good way to start working on a problem. But this horse seems to be OK in the ring. I think you must use your brain and try to figure out a way to motivate this horse to "want" to go out on the trail. To make it as fun and stress free as possible. Put your thinking cap on.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

First of all, I do not have a trainer. We cross-train hunter/jumper, but honestly, there are NO good trainers within an hour of me. I was wanting to do some dressage work to learn to work in harmony and to work on my riding effectiveness as well, but I don't have the time right now to drive 2 hours one way for lessons.

He really is good in the arena. This is more of a mental between him and I thing than it is his teachings. He walks, trots, and canters on a loose rein. Jumps in rhythm, and comes back easily as long as you don't get into his mouth. We haven't done much lateral work, but we have worked shoulder-ins (old trainer, bad trainer for other reasons, but we did lots of these), and he's a ton more flexible and way less resistant than when we first started them. I feel totally safe with this horse in an arena. He takes me over every jump and every combination, goes on a loose rein, never bucks, rears, etc. 

My problem is grasping his attention in new situations with other horses, and lately it's been really bad. He was off six months last year due to injury, and I can't say we get out frequently because I'm in college full-time and work 30 hours a week right now (and the weather...ugh the weather...no indoor arena either!). 

So me...when he dawdles, I get after him with a squeeze, a tap with my heel, and then a kick. He gives me a spurt that lasts for a second, then dawdles again. I have tried carrying a crop before, and that did help a bit. 

When we're out riding with others, I try to ride in the back and lately have tried to be conscientious of working on stopping and letting the other horses go, backing up, and controlling pace. At the same time, though, I'm also trying to make a conscious effort to use my elbows (because that's a major problem for me) and correct a few other "bad position errors." Sometimes, it's like my body can't do it all at once. 

When he stops at water, I squeeze, nudge, and then kick. Eventually, he'll go through. If we're riding alone, he doesn't have a problem with it (except puddles, which I have been making him go through). It's when we're with others. 

Up and down hills, I really struggle with finding a balance of asking him to balance himself at a walk and reminding him to walk while also giving him his head. I try not to get in his mouth going down the hill and try to remind him at the top (or bottom) that we are walking. 

As for the deer spook, that really caught me off guard - he has NEVER spooked that hard before. I didn't think that horse could pivot that fast. I pulled him around and pulled him back, and then he was done with the bolting, but I almost lost my seat in the process. Seriously though, he has never reacted as crazily as that. 

The thing I don't know how to do is get into his brain in these new situations where he is not listening, nor how to get the buddy sour out of him, as well as the home bound thing. I work harder to get him to walk than he actually works carrying me, and I know that's not right. 

I should say that I know he knows this stuff. He's 13 and has been around the block a few times. He isn't new to trails or to going places. I think if I knew what to do to get his attention to snap back to me, things would be a lot better. Do you think making him do shoulder-ins/outs and walk-halt transitions when he's not paying attention would help? As for him just being pokey and not listening, should I carry a crop and crop him when he doesn't listen to my leg to show him that I'm for real? I don't want to come off like a crop whacker, but that seems like it would send a very clear message right away. 

I know I should get him out alone and do hill work with him repetitively until he can walk up and down hills in his sleep without trying to get them over with.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

whisperbaby22 said:


> These are good answers. But a trail horse needs the proper motivation. Because we are using our horses in a more natural setting, also we are needing to have more of a "partner" relationship when we ride, the trail horse needs to be motivated to get out on the trail. Going back to basics is always a good way to start working on a problem. But this horse seems to be OK in the ring. I think you must use your brain and try to figure out a way to motivate this horse to "want" to go out on the trail. To make it as fun and stress free as possible. Put your thinking cap on.


That's the thing, I don't know what motivates him on the trail! I KNOW he is highly motivated to jump. He loves to jump. But other than that, he is very unmotivated. I know he is a good horse, and while there are situations where he is dangerous, he is not a dangerous horse. I'm the high-anxiety type and don't feel threatened in most situations on this horse. 

Everyone that knows Rusty loves him to bits. So I know it's a me thing. I just don't know what I need to change in order to get a different response.


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

Here's some things that have helped me get Sonny's attention back to me on the trails. Maybe some of them will be helpful. 

If he wants to follow too close to the horse ahead of us rather than constantly pulling back on him, which only ends up as one long argument,,,,If the trail is wide enough, I simply turn him in a circle that ends with us back in the right direction but has created a little more space. If the trail is too narrow to walk a circle, then I do hindquarter yields for 360 degrees (lol, no not the same as a forward moving circle--hard to describe), with the same results.
Another method is to zigzag or serpentine down the trail for a bit to create more space. 
Or, if the area off trail is suitable, go circle some trees and come back to the trail. 
In my experience, doing these things consistently has pretty much cured Sonny of wanting to ride nose to rump to the horse ahead of us. At first, I had to do a bazillion little circles for quite a few rides , but he did finally get it. Now a days, if he needs a reminder, I can just shorten the reins a little bit, not really pulling back, just so he can feel it and then hold that position so he runs into my hands a bit and he responds by drifting back to create more space. I ride in a rope halter. 

For the hills. A horse that is not really fit and in super condition will have a harder time walking up ,and will naturally want to trot or canter to get up the hill. If it's not too steep, I ask Sonny to walk. Since I cant ride trails/hills several times a week to effectively work on building up muscle, I do let him trot or canter if I think he really needs to. But, it's rare to be on a hill that steep. Mostly he can walk up if I'm asking him to. 
For the down part, ideally doing a zig zag down would help him stay at a walk. Unfortunately, none of the trails I've ridden zig-zag down, some curve a bit, but that's about it. What I've learned is if it's a small or moderate slope, pretty much let him have his head for balance, and I do hold Sonny to a walk. If it's a very steep hill, I don't totally give him his head, not enough that he can be very 'head down', I hold his head more up and this causes him to lower his rump and 'scootch' down, which helps prevent him from running down because all the weight is on his forehand. I've only needed to do this once or twice.

A couple of thoughts on the pokey-ness. I'm a strong believer in stopping and allowing grazing at least once or twice along the trail. I want Sonny to look forward to that sweet buffett up ahead that he will be allowed to munch on. He doesnt get to choose when or where, or for how long, I do. Sonny isnt one to try to grab bites as we go down the trail , or try to stop and graze, either, by the way. I think this-allowing grazing at your discretion- provides motivation similar to placing treats on barrels in an arena. I have a 'head down' cue so it is clear to both of us that permission to graze has been given. 
Yes, you could use a crop if you use it judiciously. Even better, in my opinion, (don't have to fool with carrying the crop), is the reins side to side on the wither area. Or if you happen to have a 'get down' rope, use it. Sonny responds well also to slapping (softly!) first myself on my back/shoulders -makes a racket in the rear area,,similar to slapping a crop on your leg. When I first got him, I'd need to get stronger in the cue by tagging him on the rump if he didnt respond to slapping my back/shoulders. Sonny is very 'go-ey' these days,yesterday was the first time I needed to use the reins side to side at the withers in...well...I can't remember when. 
But, here's the main thing to keep in mind---before the crop/reins/whatever,,,,make sure you have asked in your energy and seat/legs. I don't kick. If he doesnt respond to energy/seat/hug-squeeze with legs-slight heel contact,along with verbal (cluck, 2clucks, smooch for walk,trot,canter),,,, then I use rope/reins. 
Equally important, as soon as he responds, I release the cues, but do maintain a 'riding' energy, if that makes sense. It may take a million stops and starts,but he will finally decide it's better to keep going than to be re-cued over and over. And , IF he does keep going even a bit more than usual, YOU ask for a stop. He needs to understand that you won't make him go forever. It seems opposite of what we're inclined to do, but it works . Did for me. Sonny is a very good trail horse these days,and he was pretty bad when I first got him. He was dangerous,and I was scared, unlike you. The fear caused me to network and find help, like you are doing on here.
I still think a lot of this could be sorted out in the arena. I understand that he does good at going and jumping. Is he relaxed or fired up , though ? But, I didnt see that you are doing the basic yields and lateral moves, emergency one-rein stops untill they are second nature to both of you, or at least that he KNOWS the cues and what you are asking. jmho.
I didnt do anything specific for spooking and Sonny used to be a big spooker. With time and lots of rides, and establishing leadership on the ground, the spooks have pretty much gone away on their own. Sonny rarely spooks on the trail, I can't remember when the last spook was, but they had become a flinch in place VS 6 feet sideways. I also had one of those "I didnt know a horse could pivot that fast!" experiences when Sonny was new to me....we were 6 strides up the trail in the oppposite direction and my brain had not even registered the pivot. weird. scary!
I hope something I've said is helpful. I still very much recommend ground work and arena work for foundational improvements which carry over to the trail. 
Fay


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

I see you are getting some excellent advise here. I will make my responses as time allows me. First, I am no great horse trainer. I have to have a horse in my back yard for about 6 months before I can even begin to figure him out. 

First I would work with him alone, or make sure the people riding out with me understand that I am having trouble, and will be working with my horse. As for your feeling of him being bratty, the natural response one would have to someone being bratty would be to get irritated. Use your cues, but also, do not get irritated. If he lags behind, say "hey, let's catch up! Let's have fun" say it out loud and make yourself believe it. It is entirely possible that you two are having problems that just escalate, and you may be more easily able to control your irritation by talking to your horse. If he is up in some mares rear, use the cues but say in a strong voice "hey, ladies don't like you doing that, you dumb horse!".


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

Laugh. Chuckle. Say "well you might be having a problem, but it's a nice day and I am going to enjoy it". If he really loves to jump, go out without him and find some nice log or something and check the footing. Next time you ride, pretend you just noticed it and say "hey, let's pop over this! Let's have some fun!"


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Corazon Lock said:


> I'm the high-anxiety type and don't feel threatened in most situations on this horse. .


 High anxiety? I think of this type as an anxious, nerve-ending. Let me ask this...do YOU feel safer in an arena or a more controlled space? Your frustration may also be causing some issues with the horse. You obviously are not happy with him when you are out.

You know, this simply may not be the right horse for you. This is not meant as a criticism in any way. It may be best to go find the right horse with the temperament and ability you want rather than try and make one into what you want. I had to do that and everyone has been happier for it.

It is a frustration thing, I know. But something to consider.
Good luck to you.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

I don't get anxious with this horse 99% of the time. I know him well enough and have had him long enough to know how he is going to react in most situations. I am more of a nervous rider_ in general _ but Rusty annoys me when he acts like this. 

Last year, when we went on our first overnight trail ride, Rusty was fabulous and had a ton of energy. He did lots of different things and there was a lot of difficult riding. I think he enjoys a challenge, as do I. That horse has never galloped as fast, been as energetic, or challenged as he was on that trip. We went through an obstacle course where he had to go on a teeter totter, over a small bridge, through water, under an awning with ribbon hanging out, and do banks. He was awesome. 

I'm wondering if getting him into regular work would help. I'm going to try to get him out this winter at least once a week, and maybe in the next week or so my schedule will open up enough to schedule some lessons at a stable an hour and a half away twice a month. I don't know.

I do know this though: As much as I love Rusty, lately I've really been dreaming for a forward horse that loves to eat the trails up. Then again, this is the time of year where I always want another horse.  I love jumping too, and I think Rusty's heart really is in the jumping ring. I just have put that aside lately because of the lack of good lesson barns around here.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

mslady254 said:


> Here's some things that have helped me get Sonny's attention back to me on the trails. Maybe some of them will be helpful.
> 
> If he wants to follow too close to the horse ahead of us rather than constantly pulling back on him, which only ends up as one long argument,,,,If the trail is wide enough, I simply turn him in a circle that ends with us back in the right direction but has created a little more space. If the trail is too narrow to walk a circle, then I do hindquarter yields for 360 degrees (lol, no not the same as a forward moving circle--hard to describe), with the same results.
> Another method is to zigzag or serpentine down the trail for a bit to create more space.
> ...


Fay,
I'm sorry, I didn't see your message before for some reason! This is very, VERY helpful. I've thought about some of the things you've said before you said them, but I wasn't sure if that was the "right" thing to do, you know? 

As for Rusty's nature in jumping/arena work, he starts out fast but then relaxes into it. He gets hyper again when we throw the jumps out, but he's never unmanageable. After a few rounds, he relaxes and develops a nice, steady pace. On the flat, he gets lazy. I wish he had more of a work ethic sometimes! 

As per another post I made on this thread, I am *hoping* that I can find time to take a few dressage lessons at a stable farther away twice a month and then work on that stuff in an indoor in another town nearby that my saddle club just found. He does need more "finessing." He can walk, trot, canter both leads, halt, back, jump, etc., but he doesn't know (nor do I) a lot about lateral movements. He can shoulder-in and out pretty well, and he does know how to sidestep (yield?), but he's pretty resistant about it. So, I'm hoping to do arena work over the winter that can translate to some trail stuff when the weather gets decent again (someday). 

Honestly, I had a horse that WAS really dangerous, later I found out because he had navicular and was in pain, and he terrified me because he was never predictable. I know how Rusty acts, however annoying it may be. This horse would suddenly not want to move forward and would rear, run off, and would randomly run out of jumps so fast that it got me off every single time. He scared me.


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