# How to get Silver Dapple with flaxen mane and tail



## Poseidon

Silver dapples do not have flaxen manes and tails. The dark body with a light, silvery mane and tail _is_ what a silver dapple looks like. First of all, color should be the last thing you're breeding for. Silver dapple is black with the silver gene. The only way you could be 100% to get a silver dapple foal would be if the stud was homozygous for both black and silver and the mare was not an agouti carrier.


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## Bellasmom

Why do you say silver dapples do not have flaxen manes/tails? Maybe my mare did not get that memo? I do agree, breeding primarily for color is dangerous & in RMH there is an eye issue connected to the silver gene that makes it unwise to breed silver to silver.


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## smrobs

Silver dapples do not have a flaxen mane and tail because the pale coloration of those areas are part of the color itself. You wouldn't say "he's a bay with a black mane and tail", because a black mane and tail are a given on a bay horse. Same with a silver dapple, the pale mane and tail are a given.

I have to agree with Po on the other note, color should be the extreme last thing on the list of things to consider before breeding.

1) make sure both the sire and dam have solid, sound conformation that compliments each other

2) make sure both the sire and dam have good temperaments

3) make sure both the sire and dam are proven at some discipline, preferably the same discipline or 2 that compliment each other

4) make sure that the foal is registerable in a recognized registry

If the combination of quality mare and stud also carry the possibility of throwing a silver dapple, then awesome, but getting a silver dapple foal wouldn't mean much if it was born with horrid conformation and a crappy temperament.


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## Bellasmom

I'm not a genetics expert by any means, but (at least in my breed) silver dapples can have manes/tails ranging from a brownish color with flaxen streaks to almost white, and sometimes they will darken with age. The very light "flaxen" coloration is not always a given.


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## pepperduck

Why don't you just buy the horse in the color you would like if it is that important to you? Or if you have found a stud you like you can ask the owners if they know anyone or if they themselves have a broodmare that they would be willing to do a breeding lease out to you or reserve a foal before it hits the ground.


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## Tapperjockey

Flaxen only expresses on red. Silver (dapple) on expresses on black. Silver Dapple will usually give you a pale (silver) mane and tail, not always and some darken with age, but usually. 

breeding two flaxen chestnuts together will usually give you a flaxen chestnut (though not always and some darken with age).

They are two separate color/genes, and you really won't get a horse exhibiting both as they work on two separate base colors.

To get a silver dapple foal you would need to test the stallion (and or mare) and pick one that is homozygous for black (and agouti if you want to make sure the foal is silver dapple bay, no agouti if you want black). And, most stallions are not homozygous for Silver Dapple, so you'd have a 50/50 chance.


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## HAFWalkers

Of course im not breeding for only color, I just really like that color and would like to own a horse with that coloring someday. I found a stallion with the silver gene who has excellent bloodlines, and all of my mare have excellent bloodlines. Just needed to know what one of my mares I should breed him to, to try and get that color. thanks for every1s input.


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## FeatheredFeet

And remember, not all silvers will be silver dapples. And you will never get a silver with a flaxen mane and tail. Silvers have most often, a more grey appearance, whereas a flaxen is more yellow. That said, there are some chestnuts with flaxen manes and tails, who carry the silver gene and produce silvers in their offspring.

Lizzie


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## HAFWalkers

So an off breed topic from the twh, how do rocky mountain horses get their color, which appear to be a dark silver with flaxen mane and tail anyways.


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## Chiilaa

Some breeds tend to display silver more "classic" than others. RMH are one, Gypsys are another. Most pony breeds tend to like to display it more than horse breeds. Some stock breeds just have a slight discolouration to the mane and tail, and no other hints. 

In reality, I have no problem with breeding for colour if you are meeting all the other checks - health, conformation, temperament, usability. However, while you can breed for a particular colour, such as silver black, it is far harder to breed for different shades within the colour. Ideally, you would have one parent homozygous for silver, at least one homozygous for black, and neither carrying agouti. That at least guarantees the foal is silver black.


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## FeatheredFeet

Have a look here..

Silver Fox

This is Fox. He belongs to my friend Chelle. I do her website. Fox is a black, silver dapple. You can see the dappling in some pics. Look down a bit further and you will see his dam. She is a chestnut with a flaxen mane/tail. Compare his mane and tail with hers and you can spot the difference. There is slight discolouring in Fox's tail, but his basic hair colour is more white or silver, than the yellow type hair the mare possesses.

Strangely enough, when my daughter went to England to look at Gypsy Horses, she almost purchased that mare. And Fox is producing fabulous offspring.

Lizzie


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## Tapperjockey

HAFWalkers said:


> So an off breed topic from the twh, how do rocky mountain horses get their color, which appear to be a dark silver with flaxen mane and tail anyways.


the "flaxen" mane and tails in RMHs and most, is the silver gene. Some express more of the silver in their manes and tails than others do.


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## franknbeans

FeatheredFeet said:


> Have a look here..
> 
> Silver Fox
> 
> This is Fox. He belongs to my friend Chelle. I do her website. Fox is a black, silver dapple. You can see the dappling in some pics. Look down a bit further and you will see his dam. She is a chestnut with a flaxen mane/tail. Compare his mane and tail with hers and you can spot the difference. There is slight discolouring in Fox's tail, but his basic hair colour is more white or silver, than the yellow type hair the mare possesses.
> 
> Strangely enough, when my daughter went to England to look at Gypsy Horses, she almost purchased that mare. And Fox is producing fabulous offspring.
> 
> 
> 
> He is LOVELY! I am finding this discussion interesting......and still have to wonder how my guy, the mongrel that he is, got the silver tail he has, but the black mane? We know the silver tail is his TWH heritage, but to get one and not the other? hmmmm. Long ago I posted a "what color is he" thread......which I can't find now, but you can see his coloring here......
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/just-fun-confo-critique-what-do-89555/ I have been told he is a silver dapple, and the vet did test his eyes also, so I guess she thinks so too.
> 
> Just wondered for the OP-how common is it that this half and half type of thing happens? You can get one without the other?
> 
> Guess the only way to be sure you will get one is to buy one.


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## Tapperjockey

franknbeans said:


> FeatheredFeet said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have a look here..
> 
> Silver Fox
> 
> This is Fox. He belongs to my friend Chelle. I do her website. Fox is a black, silver dapple. You can see the dappling in some pics. Look down a bit further and you will see his dam. She is a chestnut with a flaxen mane/tail. Compare his mane and tail with hers and you can spot the difference. There is slight discolouring in Fox's tail, but his basic hair colour is more white or silver, than the yellow type hair the mare possesses.
> 
> Strangely enough, when my daughter went to England to look at Gypsy Horses, she almost purchased that mare. And Fox is producing fabulous offspring.
> 
> 
> 
> He is LOVELY! I am finding this discussion interesting......and still have to wonder how my guy, the mongrel that he is, got the silver tail he has, but the black mane? We know the silver tail is his TWH heritage, but to get one and not the other? hmmmm. Long ago I posted a "what color is he" thread......which I can't find now, but you can see his coloring here......
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/just-fun-confo-critique-what-do-89555/ I have been told he is a silver dapple, and the vet did test his eyes also, so I guess she thinks so too.
> 
> Just wondered for the OP-how common is it that this half and half type of thing happens? You can get one without the other?
> 
> Guess the only way to be sure you will get one is to buy one.
> 
> 
> 
> You can get the "half/half" . Many times the mane will darken with age, but the tail won't all the way (especially the bottom of the tail). The Silver Dapple Morgans Project here are some pictures of the foxton silver dapple morgans. As you'll see the mane in many (and sometimes the tail) darken with age in some. A few have black manes and pure silver tails. One confirmed (via testing and breeding) mare, looks plain bay.. very little silver at all, but she is a silver dapple bay.. it's not "hiding" like it can on chestnut obviously.. you just have to look very closely at her to see the silver.
Click to expand...


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## xxBarry Godden

*Dapple Grey*

Excuse me butting in, but my mare is dapple grey - see attached

Her mane is black and very sparse,
her tail is multicoloured but predominantly 'blond' with black and brown hairs.
- again her tail is adequate but sparse.

If one day I were to put her to stud - in order to preserve the dapple grey colour I have been told to put her to a black stallion? Do you agree?

As for her mane and tail I'd just like to see hair of any colour but more of it
especially around the crest.

Incidentally I'd go to Portugal to find a Lusitano stallion - the mare is Irish Draft/Connemara


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## NdAppy

Barry - there is no way to "preserve" the dapple grey color or to guarantee it when breed. Dapple is just one of the many, many stages that a grey horse can take.


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## Jacksmama

If you want a chocolate or silver dapple from a silver dapple stud that is not homozygous and you don't have a silver dapple mare, your best chance is to have a mare that is homozygous for black bred to him. It doesn't express on red. Even if the foal inheireted a red from the father, black is dominant so they'd still be black, or silver dapple if they got the modifier. 
Here is a great color calculator so you can see what chances you would have with what colors.
Color Calculator
You can still get it if the mare has agouti(bay), but it won't be your classic silver dapple, but a silver bay. The body color varies, but the one I ride and show is kind of a devils food cake color lol. She has chocolate points where a bay has black and a silver mane and tail. There is also some mottling with lighter shades of brown in the chocolate points. Here are some pictures. 
Bay Silver


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## xxBarry Godden

So my dreams of a lively dapple grey colt, with a lush flaxen mane and long swishing tail are set for disappointment?

Worse, you say I might wind up with a standard white/grey or even worse a common bay?. Oh well, that's another illusion quashed..

I'd better rethink that idea of a riding holiday in Portugal.


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## franknbeans

Yes, Barry-sorry to say that as far as I know, dapple grey generally keep getting lighter with age.......I have always loved them too, then I realized they do not stay that way.

Silver Dapples are different, at least to my minimal understanding. They generally stay the same color. So, if you want one, I am afraid you will have to buy one. Chances of getting one out of your mare are minimal. You might be better off with the lottery, then your trip. ;-)


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## NdAppy

silver dapples are a whole different set of genetics. The dapples on the silvers tend to be seasonal (some are permanent). Some horses get extreme dappling where others get hardly any. It's all a play of genetics and environment. Not somehting that I see as something that should be bred for. The dappling _is_ a wonderful plus though, I just wouldn't count on it in breeding. You want a specific look? Go buy it. You'll get exactly what you want without the gamble of breeding.


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## smrobs

Yep, Barry, sorry to burst your bubble. This guy used to be a beautiful dapple gray only slightly lighter in shade than your mare.


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## Tapperjockey

Barry Godden said:


> So my dreams of a lively dapple grey colt, with a lush flaxen mane and long swishing tail are set for disappointment?
> 
> Worse, you say I might wind up with a standard white/grey or even worse a common bay?. Oh well, that's another illusion quashed..
> 
> I'd better rethink that idea of a riding holiday in Portugal.


Yup. your mare will continually get lighter and lighter. Sorry to be the bearers of bad news.. but grey is very progressive. Photos now, and photos in 5 years.. will look entirely different lol


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## Tapperjockey

franknbeans said:


> Yes, Barry-sorry to say that as far as I know, dapple grey generally keep getting lighter with age.......I have always loved them too, then I realized they do not stay that way.
> 
> Silver Dapples are different, at least to my minimal understanding. They generally stay the same color. So, if you want one, I am afraid you will have to buy one. Chances of getting one out of your mare are minimal. You might be better off with the lottery, then your trip. ;-)


Correct. Silver Dapple is a gene that modifies bay or black based horses.

Dapple grey is just a shade of grey, and grey is a different gene.


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