# Breeding my mare? With her father?



## xxdukesxx

My mare is in the pasture with her father. I don't know much about breeding, but would it affect the colt? Or does he know hes related, which i highly doubt. If it does affect the colt how? They are both extremly quiet.


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## mls

I certainly hope this is a joke.


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## onetoomany

I would remove your mare immediately. Horses do not in anyway recognize that they are related and will mate at will. I definitely wouldn't risk the detrimental effects of inbreeding.


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## Equus_girl

Inbreeding horses can produce very bad birth defects in the foal. Definatly remove your mare. They will mate and there are not good results at all. Even if there are not birth defects there is a very high chance the foal will never be very healthy. For the baby's sake do not let them breed.


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## county

Actually inbreeding one time rarely cause any birth defects in livestock incidents are no higher then no inbreeding. But its not a good practice to line or inbreed unless you know what your doing and theres a huge stigma some people have about it due to just not knowing anything on the subject.


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## Joshie

xxdukesxx said:


> My mare is in the pasture with her father. I don't know much about breeding, but would it affect the colt? Or does he know hes related, which i highly doubt. If it does affect the colt how? They are both extremly quiet.


Why is your mare in a pasture with any stallion? Breeding with a relative increases the chance of obtaining familial tendencies towards birth defects and can magnify any conformational defects or weaknesses.


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## close2prfct

I agree with everyone else there are too many risk factors to think about if your mare has any conformation problems however slight, if she inherited them from her sire then allowing them to breed will bring those faults to the front. In other words what is a slight fault will be a big fault due to doubling it. The same thing applies to temperament etc. I don't know a lot about horse breeding but I have raised Shiba Inu dogs and from experience know that things can crop up unexpectedly from line/in breeding. It's just not worth the risk if you ask me


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## Whipple

I agree with everyone. Inbreeding/linebreeding should not be done unless you absolutely know what you are doing and are prepared for the results. 
Breeding should not be done on a whim for that matter. If you dont know for sure that a stallion would recognize his daughter as a horse he should not breed, why are you leaving them together? I dont think you have much business breeding in the first place.


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## NewHeart

really? There are so many things wrong here I don't know where to begin. I agree with mls, I do hope is this some kind of joke.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl

I think the OP got some really good answers to the question asked. Please keep to the forum rules and be polite when answering. Let's keep this thread friendly and the discussion on topic or it will be locked.


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## Cat

A close breeding like this would increase the risk of a recessive coming out that you don't want. Such a close inbreeding can also create inbreeding depression which results in a lower immune system and a smaller-sized offspring. I know some say it can't happen in one breeding like this - but I have seen the results myself. 

Personally if they were my horses - I would seperate them and have the vet come out and check for pregnancy. If she was pregnant - I would have him pinch off the embryo like they do for twins and just fully terminante the pregnancy. Its not worth the risk.


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## county

I don't see anyone thats said it can't happen only that the incidence has never been proven to be higher.

As far as why would you keep a stallion with mares its not unusual at all to keep stallions with bred mares in fact its common especially on working ranches. Teaches stallions manners and how to interact with other horses. Worst way to keep a stallion for its health is in isolation their a herd animal and need to live like one


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## Cat

I think the key there is *bred* mares. I think the question here is why would you keep a stallion with his un-bred daughter.


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## county

I wouldn't but someone asked wqhy would you keep a stallion with any mare


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## carmor07

Stallion + mare + same pasture = breeding..He does not know if she is is daughter or not :roll:..I would take her out posthaste and hope it isnt to late..


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## xxdukesxx

Ok thanks for all the rude post to all who posted rudly. I asked a simple question. First of all i only own one horse and the rest are my boyfriends gradfathers. You wouldnt even know his horse wasn't gelded. You can sit there and tug on his tail in the pasture and he just stands there he is the quietest stud i have ever seen. No word of a lie when he does get on a mare the owner can tell him to get down and he will. Might be hard to believe but its true. And second I'm not looking to breed my mare by him she is just in the pasture with him. I don't see why everyone is throwing this big fit like it is against the law and it is the "wrong" thing to do. I'm not looking to breed her and if she was bred i wouldn't be keeping the foal. I just wanted to know what were the pro's and con's and what would be the turn out results of my mare and foal


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## onetoomany

There are pros in the some VERY exceptional cases (I'm talking horses that changed the standards of their breed). Most inbred horses I've seen exhibit the cons of inbreeding. The conformational and tempermental defects were exponentially increased; at least with the horses I've seen. I think people were incredulous at the thought that you were questioning whether a sire would breed his get... horses definitely don't have the social taboos that people have. Also unless these two horses are exceptional (I'm not talking "Oh aren't they just the most lovely tempered things you've ever seen.") I'm saying breed shattering exceptional, good luck selling the foal. As a buyer I would shy away from a horse that was first generation inbred.


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## JustDressageIt

A mare in the same pasture as a stallion will end in the mare being bred. Whether she takes or not is a different discussion.

Please remove the mare from the stallion's pasture. Animals DO NOT know who is their offspring, and WILL BREED. 

There are some wonderful horse care books out there, it might be a good idea to go pick a few up and just brush up


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## JustDressageIt

Just to add... inbreeding DOES affect the foal.

1) Prospective buyers will be EXTREMELY turned off of buying the resulting foal. If you are in a bad financial situation... good luck trying to sell him.

2) Genetic abnormalities are compounded by inbreeding, and definitely DOES increase the chance of the foal being deformed or have some health problems.


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## Cat

I didn't see anyone being rude - just honest. 

You say you are not going to breed your mare - but if she is in the same pasture as the stallion - then she is going to be bred. Its pure ignorance to think otherwise.

I know plenty of quiet studs. It still doesn't mean he doesn't have breeding on his mind and isn't going to take the first chance he gets to breed a mare once she comes in heat. 

You say if she is bred, you are not going to keep the foal. An inbred foal like that is going to be a VERY hard foal to sell unless that foal has an outstanding pedigree and conformation to override such close inbreeding.


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## Spyder

xxdukesxx said:


> Ok thanks for all the rude post to all who posted rudly. I asked a simple question. First of all i only own one horse and the rest are my boyfriends gradfathers. You wouldnt even know his horse wasn't gelded. You can sit there and tug on his tail in the pasture and he just stands there he is the quietest stud i have ever seen. No word of a lie when he does get on a mare the owner can tell him to get down and he will. Might be hard to believe but its true. And second I'm not looking to breed my mare by him she is just in the pasture with him. I don't see why everyone is throwing this big fit like it is against the law and it is the "wrong" thing to do. I'm not looking to breed her and if she was bred i wouldn't be keeping the foal. I just wanted to know what were the pro's and con's and what would be the turn out results of my mare and foal


 
I saw your two year old mare and her dad and yes they *WILL* breed.

Inbreeding done by a professional that knows his stock CAN work and has in fact produced some exceptional horses however from what your mare looks like and her daddy they are not even breeding stock.

As far as the stallion acting like a puppy well mine is the same...BUT he is TOTALLY different when a mare is presented to him for breeding. There *is* a stallion buried in my horse and there *is* a stallion buried in the one on your property. It is also not unusual for stallions,even aggressive ones to be more docile in the winter when mares are not in heat or very mildly in heat and the testosterone in the stud is at its lowest levels.

On so many levels they should be seperated as soon.

You want to know the results....auction material.


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## wild_spot

> I'm not looking to breed my mare by him she is just in the pasture with him.


He WILL breed her. As JDI said, if she takes is another matter. Empty mares in a paddock with a stallion results in them being bred. That is why people paddock serve. It works.




> I'm not looking to breed her and if she was bred i wouldn't be keeping the foal.


I for one, would run for the hills if I found out a horse I was looking at was that closely inbred. It will NOT be easy to sell. It is VERY likely that it will end up at an auction or in a bad situation. 




> I don't see why everyone is throwing this big fit like it is against the law and it is the "wrong" thing to do.


In my opinion, and i'm sure MANY people here, it is the wrong thing to do. If your mare is bred by her father, you are creating a foal that is highly likely to have undesirable conformation and an extremely low chance of being successfully rehomed... There is a stigma about inbreeding for a reason. A lot fo people, me included, do not think it is morally correct to bring that kind of foal into the world, especially the world as it is now with the economy, simply because it was easier to run your mare with the stallion than to move her or seperate them.

That's where most of us are coming from. We are not trying to be rude, we are tryign to let you knwo the MANY cons of this course of action, as you asked.

The only way there would be any pro's is if your mare and the stallion were world champion standard animals, and you were a breeder heavily experienced in linebreeding and inbreeding and the results.


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## JustDressageIt

wild_spot said:


> He WILL breed her. As JDI said, if she takes is another matter. Empty mares in a paddock with a stallion results in them being bred. That is why people paddock serve. It works.
> 
> 
> 
> I for one, would run for the hills if I found out a horse I was looking at was that closely inbred. It will NOT be easy to sell. It is VERY likely that it will end up at an auction or in a bad situation.
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion, and i'm sure MANY people here, it is the wrong thing to do. If your mare is bred by her father, you are creating a foal that is highly likely to have undesirable conformation and an extremely low chance of being successfully rehomed... There is a stigma about inbreeding for a reason. A lot fo people, me included, do not think it is morally correct to bring that kind of foal into the world, especially the world as it is now with the economy, simply because it was easier to run your mare with the stallion than to move her or seperate them.
> 
> That's where most of us are coming from. We are not trying to be rude, we are tryign to let you knwo the MANY cons of this course of action, as you asked.
> 
> The only way there would be any pro's is if your mare and the stallion were world champion standard animals, and you were a breeder heavily experienced in linebreeding and inbreeding and the results.


Thank you, WS. Well said.

People are not being rude. They are being honest.

I just saw that you would not keep the foal - that's fine.. chances are it will end up on a double. 

We might be being a little harsh, but... if we were all nicey-nicey about it, would you separate them quicker? Probably not. 

ETA - I just saw pics of your mare. She's cute, but, no offense, but she is not anywhere NEAR what I would consider breeding quality.


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## wild_spot

P.S. please excuse my spelling, just noticed how many typos there were... Eep.


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## JustDressageIt

Please do not take offense to the title of this book, it truely is a GREAT horse care book:

Amazon.com: Horses for Dummies: Audrey Pavia: Books


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## Skippy!

> And second I'm not looking to breed my mare by him she is just in the pasture with him. I don't see why everyone is throwing this big fit like it is against the law and it is the "wrong" thing to do. I'm not looking to breed her and if she was bred i wouldn't be keeping the foal.


Honey, if ya aren't planning on keeping the foal I wouldn't breed the horses in any case =) Even if they were two completely unrelated horses ^^ and having them in the same pen like that will result in a baby.

When I finally breed, i'm going to make sure I can afford to keep the offspring for the rest of its life. Its alright to breed a horse with the intention of selling it, but you need to know that it may take years to find the right owner.

As everyone else said, i'd definately recommend removing the mare, or stallion as soon as possible to prevent them from breeding. The APHA has a little breeding pamphlet that includes the type of breeding. They say Inbreeding is something that is legitamate to do, but is definately not for the inexperienced breeders to approach. I was sorta confused that they even allowed it, lol! I definately would not recommend or condone it in any fashion. Again, im surprised (well.. not really, lol!) that the APHA mentions it as a breeding method.

For your situation I don't see any pros, just cons ^^; Sorry hun!


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## JustDressageIt

They WILL breed. Doesn't matter if he's her dad; they don't care. If they're kept together, they WILL breed.


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## Skippy!

I couldn't find the same booklet that APHA hands out with their membership packets, but i found this:

Inbreeding, Linebreeding and Crossbreeding

Again though, I can't stress enough how bad i'd feel for the resulting foal. As I said, there are so many unwanted horses already... and you'd have a heck of a time trying to sell her because of her being inbred.

A stallion and a mare should only be kept together if you want a foal. It will result in a baby 99.9% of the time (I don't say 100% because i can't completely discount it.)

Also.. I did some hunting on some of your other posts.. Is this mare only 2 years old? Having a foal would be absolute heck on her joints/body, and it is entirely possible for her to get pregnant at this age... but it'd start her life off on the wrong foot.. ya know?

I also think that the mare and the stallion have quite a few flaws as far as conformation goes. If you did want to breed her one day, take the time to select a stallion that will sort of "fix" the things she lacks.. if that makes sense.

I hope this helps ya.


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## Stepher

good job xxdukesxx, you made it onto fugly horse of the day....


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## Spyder

Stepher said:


> good job xxdukesxx, you made it onto fugly horse of the day....


Fugly Horse of the Day: Observe the train wreck in progress!


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## brookelovesparelli

just think about about it, the foals grandfather would be its dad as well.


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## Kianne

xxdukesxx said:


> Ok thanks for all the rude post to all who posted rudly. I asked a simple question. First of all i only own one horse and the rest are my boyfriends gradfathers. You wouldnt even know his horse wasn't gelded. You can sit there and tug on his tail in the pasture and he just stands there he is the quietest stud i have ever seen. No word of a lie when he does get on a mare the owner can tell him to get down and he will. Might be hard to believe but its true. And second I'm not looking to breed my mare by him she is just in the pasture with him. I don't see why everyone is throwing this big fit like it is against the law and it is the "wrong" thing to do. I'm not looking to breed her and if she was bred i wouldn't be keeping the foal. I just wanted to know what were the pro's and con's and what would be the turn out results of my mare and foal


First of all, i don't think anyone was being rude or "throwing a big fit", just answering the question that you asked, and telling you the pros and cons(there really aren't any pros, in my opinion), as you asked... 

Secondly, they _will_ breed. It doesn't matter that the stallion acts like a gelding, he will still want to breed. It doesn't matter if she is his daughter either, he will still want to breed. Their are tons of foals in the world needing homes, no need to bring another one (expecially one that could serious health issues) into the world. There are tons of cons on why not to breed them, but i think they have all been covered.


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## thebundychick

You might have asked a simple question - and your right - it was a simple question, but the fact that you're asking it, means that you don't know a thing about horses / breeding and the subsequent consequences.

Its not just as simple to say "If they breed, i won't be keeping the foal"

What are you going to do with it? Send it to a "forever home" aka a kill buyer who will put it on a truck and send it to the slaughterhouse? Your statement shows your immaturity, or at least lack of foresight of the consequences of your actions.

Get your mare out of that paddock. Or geld the stallion - please don't think I'm being horrid, but you are not equiped or knowledgable enough to be breeding horses (albeit accidently)

To be honest - neither am I - thats why I own a gelding.

Fugly has featured you on her blog. If you haven't been over there, I suggest you do. You will probably be totally offended by her entry - but I would ask that you at least read the last months worth of archives, and try to get an understanding as to why she has created the blog. 

She is trying to stop the unneccessary or "accidental" breeding of horses who don't have a hope in hell of being sold to good homes, and end up at the slaughterhouse. 

Its a horribly tragic circle - and the horse ends up being the loser in everycase.


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## onetoomany

Stepher said:


> good job xxdukesxx, you made it onto fugly horse of the day....


Fairly certain I just snorted and giggled over that... for like five minutes. What an accomplishment.


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## Whipple

Whipple said:


> I agree with everyone. Inbreeding/linebreeding should not be done unless you absolutely know what you are doing and are prepared for the results.
> Breeding should not be done on a whim for that matter. If you dont know for sure that a stallion would recognize his daughter as a horse he should not breed, why are you leaving them together? I dont think you have much business breeding in the first place.


Since my post was (I'm sure) commented on, I wanted to clear up any misinterpretations.
In no way did I mean that a stallion should be left alone. And I do not know much about the OP or thier horses, but I am assuming they do not have a ton, otherwise they would not be keeping a stallion and UNbred mare in the same field. Or they're just dumb. By no way did I mean that a stallion, or any horse should be kept in seclusion.

Have you removed one horse or the other? Have you seen the vet yet? Have you done anything yet?


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## Skippy!

Guys, please keep it on topic and civil.

A lot has been posted since the OP last logged on.. shouldn't we give them a chance to sign on and read it? It hasnt even been a full 24 hours since her last post. I see that for the most part, we are all just posting our agreement with the last few posters and this thread has become very cluttered. The OP needs a chance to read these posts and reply/defend herself.

Some great points had been brought up about the possible foal, breeding age of the mare, inbreeding (pros and cons), and now we all just seem to be repeating ourselves.

This is an individual, they do have feelings, and at least they posted something here asking about it rather than just letting it happen. Who knows, maybe because she posted this she will pull the mare out before she got covered (unless she already was). Calling her names and poking fun at her because she made it onto Fugly is not constructive, and is not helpful or necissary... especially not in an open forum.

I prefer educating over bullying. I'll do anything to help a misguided horse owner even if there is the slightest chance they will take my advice, and it would turn their career with horses around. I'd hate to see this person leave this forum because of this.. this could be one of the best resources available to her. Sure, an online message board isnt the same as a vet or educated horse person, but its still -something- right? Or else im sure we wouldnt have this many members.

And yes, i realize by posting this, i too have gone off topic. Oh, life's cruel ironies! lol


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## Joshie

xxdukesxx said:


> I'm not looking to breed her and if she was bred i wouldn't be keeping the foal. I just wanted to know what were the pro's and con's and what would be the turn out results of my mare and foal


My cousin made a comment when another cousin got pregnant. She said she wasn't TRYING to get pregnant. Other cousin said "If you're not using birth control you ARE trying to get pregnant." I think the same logic is in place here. If you have an unbred mare kept with a stallion you are trying to have a bred mare. Animals breed.


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## happygoose123

First of all this is just soo wrong on so many levels. I dont know why you would even consider it really. particularly if your not planning to keep the foal! Why do you have them together anyway!!! No matter how quiet or friendly he is he is still going to breed!!! Its the facts of life!!!! As some one said earlier, mare + stallion + same pasture = BREEDING!!!


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## JustDressageIt

To the OP - all is not lost. You can contact your vet (which I recommend just to get her preg checked) and you CAN terminate the pregnancy, which I recommend. 

Best of luck to you and your mare. You are welcome to PM me, I doubt I'll be posting on this thread anymore


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## LadyDreamer

And the earlier a pregnancy is terminated the easier it will be on the mare.


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## Barebackrider

> really? There are so many things wrong here I don't know where to begin. I agree with mls, I do hope is this some kind of joke.


 I've herd so many bad things about it .I would get her out of there it's to risky.....and defects are not worth it in my opinion, but from what I've herd don't risk it. It's just to risky in my opinion.good on you for asking 
Ireland


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## Barebackrider

I don't want to be mean


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## El Tanteo

Don't take the mare out...



*GELD THE STALLION!*


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## equinewoods

El Tanteo said:


> Don't take the mare out...
> 
> 
> 
> *GELD THE STALLION!*


 
Amen to that!


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## Kentucky

I would suggest removing that mare asap, gelding the stallion, maybe, maybe not. I have not seen him and can't see him. But, if you own a stallion I am guessing you are using him as a stud. why are you keeping his filly.


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## mls

Too funny!


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## kitten_Val

El Tanteo said:


> Don't take the mare out...
> 
> 
> 
> *GELD THE STALLION!*


Too funny... I've seen it on fugly too before coming here. 

I really feel sorry for the possible foal in this situation. Even though they wouldn't be relatives...


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## El Tanteo

We don't need anymore badly bred horses in this world! The well-bred ones are selling for beans and pocket lint! Sorry if I sound rude, but it is the most obvious best solution in this situation.


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## Vidaloco

I'm trying to take this as a serious question and not a trollish attempt to rile up the membership. If its the latter please don't post more hot topics like this one. If its a serious inquiry then yes, you need to keep them separate or they will breed. Like any other animal, familial relationships go by the wayside when love is in the air.


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## Jessabel

Congratulations on being featured on the Fugly blog. 

Inbreeding is an absolute no-no. And yes, they will definitely breed. Separate them asap. Picturing what the foal would be like doesn't paint a pretty picture. It would most likely end up on a stock trailer bound for Mexico.


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## Spastic_Dove

I saw this on Fugly awhile ago. I saw this on here and thought someone was just referencing the blog.
....Wow...


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## RusticWildFire

I think instead of being mean to this person it would be much more beneficial and productive to give her the facts in a nice way. Everyone starts somewhere and I give her credit for coming forth and actually asking about something she wanted to know. What may be obvious to one may not be so obvious to another.


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## Twilight Arabians

i have seen what comes out of breeding a mare back to its father and it was not pretty. the foal has such bad legs he wont live to a year old, and if he does i pitty the poor guy, please please please just take your mare out, not only is it bad for her to be bred back to her sire but she's also to young to be having a baby, so please just do whats best for her.


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## CrazyChester

Reading the blog on fugly and some of the replies on here I now dont feel comfortable making threads about my silly questions. I'm quite disappointed..

To the OP, good luck and I hope you listen to some of the advice people have given you.


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## JustDressageIt

CrazyChester said:


> Reading the blog on fugly and some of the replies on here I now dont feel comfortable making threads about my silly questions. I'm quite disappointed..
> 
> To the OP, good luck and I hope you listen to some of the advice people have given you.


There are silly questions then there are questions where a horse's life is in danger. Possibly 2 horses' lives, in this case.


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## wild_spot

CrazyChester said:


> Reading the blog on fugly and some of the replies on here I now dont feel comfortable making threads about my silly questions. I'm quite disappointed..
> 
> To the OP, good luck and I hope you listen to some of the advice people have given you.


Do your silly questions include inbreeding your mare? I view that as a very serious question. As JDI mentiond, it is putting horses welfare at risk.

I certainly hope people won't be discouraged from posting. Most replies on this thread are trying to show the OP the seriousness of the matter and avoid danger to the horses. 

Also, the blog on Fugly doesn't really have much to do with the forum. It has to do with the specific question.


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## luvs2ride1979

That close of breeding should IMO, never be done, but it definitely shouldn't be done by amateur horse owners. Get him gelded ASAP. Older studs can be successfully gelded, and you will avoid any "accidents". 

If you don't want him gelded, or if he's not yours to geld, then get the mare OUT of his pasture.


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## CrazyChester

I understand that this is putting another horses life in danger and that you are trying to bring across the seriousness of this matter to the OP but being obnoxiously self-assertive to her isnt going to help the matter. Im going to keep myself out of here so I dont course any more trouble. 


Good Day


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## wild_spot

*shrugs* I guess thats where we differ. I didn't think I was being self-assertive, and I didn't think the majority of the posts were. Ah well, thems breaks.


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## kitten_Val

CrazyChester said:


> Reading the blog on fugly and some of the replies on here I now dont feel comfortable making threads about my silly questions. I'm quite disappointed..


I'm posting silly questions all the time.  

It all depends on question though. People are not making fun of OP here, but are greatly concerned. Seeing horses on my local auctions (one is famous New Holland in PA, where people drop horses for meat directly) I may say too it's very, very sad.


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## Mike_User

A question is never silly if it is posted in good faith and out of an honest interest in learning the answer. 

This thread is being closed since it seems this question has been answered more than sufficiently. I hope that some of the responses do not dissuade the original poster from asking questions in the future. It is, after all, by asking questions and receiving constructive answers that people learn enough to avoid the very types of mistakes that have made this thread interesting to so many.


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