# designing stall fronts



## Acadianartist

I don't even know where to begin so I'll try to break it down to specifics points.

1 - Sliding doors seemed like the obvious choice, but then I was in a gorgeous barn recently and the owner had put in swinging doors on the front of her stalls. Her logic was that sliding doors break down and malfunction, but the doors that swing out are very basic and easy to fix/maintain. We will only have two horses, no boarders, and my daughter and I will be the only ones using the barn in the foreseeable future. Thoughts? Please keep in mind that I live in a rural area in Canada and will have limited access to farm supplies and the expertise one might find in a larger city. I generally have to order stuff in, and the shipping can be through the roof. 

2 - I'm thinking of bars to divide the stalls - I should specify that I plan on having two 11 x 12 stalls side-by-side. It will be a four stall barn, but the other two stalls will be used as an enclosed tack room and a bedding/implements/feed room. The aisle will be 10 or 12 feet wide (I haven't decided whether I want to make the stalls 10 x 12 to have a wider aisle). So my second question is how high does the wall need to be between stalls if I use metal bars as dividers? And how do you feel about metal bars between stalls? I figure the horses might like seeing each other and it will provide good air flow. 

3 - I'd like the stall fronts to be as open as possible, but I'm aware that it can result in chewing stall doors, etc. I'd like the horses to be able to hang their heads over the stall doors, but I don't want them to be able to bite each other. Also, a savvy lesson barn owner suggested I keep an open space over the feed bin so I don't have to go into the stalls to feed. I can see this as an advantage if my 11 yr old daughter was doing some of the feedings. Much safer and easier if she doesn't have to go in the stalls. 

If you've come up with the perfect stall design, please take pictures and post them here!!! Again, the more basic the materials, the better. I don't mind spending good money on quality materials, but realistically, I probably won't have access to an unlimited number of options. If I can come up with a basic, functional design that any carpenter can put together using easily accessible materials, that would be ideal. My contractor has tons of experience building agricultural buildings, but I don't think he's built stables. I tried, but was unable to find someone who has specific experience building horse barns. Again, I live in the middle of nowhere. Lots of people I know keep their horses in old, converted cow barns. I should also mention that I have access to an excellent welder who can usually manufacture stuff for us cheaper than we can buy it if that helps.


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## Avna

I think one down side to sliding doors is that you lose all the aisle wall space where the opened door has to go. 

I have liked dutch doors with the top door being heavy wire like what we call sheep panel out here (heavy welded 4" grid rigid fencing), set into a wooden frame. That way those horses who can't have nice things can still look out and the better behaved can hang their heads out. 

There are certainly more expensive solutions but I am not an expensive solution gal.


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## Acadianartist

Avna said:


> I think one down side to sliding doors is that you lose all the aisle wall space where the opened door has to go.
> 
> I have liked dutch doors with the top door being heavy wire like what we call sheep panel out here (heavy welded 4" grid rigid fencing), set into a wooden frame. That way those horses who can't have nice things can still look out and the better behaved can hang their heads out.
> 
> There are certainly more expensive solutions but I am not an expensive solution gal.


I like how you think. I want to keep it simple, but safe and functional.

We will only be keeping our own two horses in this barn so we do not expect any issues with horses being able to hang their head out. That said, I am aware that some will chew the door and possibly learn to work the latch. Placing the latch out of reach is a fairly easy solution to that problem and we can cover the top of the door with metal if we need to.


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## Rain Shadow

Swinging doors all the way. Make it so they can be hooked open so you don't have to fight to keep the door open when you are carrying bedding/water/etc in and out. 

Since you are doing your own barn, have the doors one opposite sides. One is as far left as you can go, the other is as far right. That way they can't bite each other when they hang their heads over. 

Hang the feed bucket near the door so you just have to stick your arm over the door and dump. Its how my stalls are and it works very well. 

I really like this type of stall, I'd just put the doors farther apart.


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## KigerQueen

here are a cuple of ideas.


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## horselovinguy

Using Kigers pictures as a reference....
The metal on the stall upper part are called livestock panels. 
They come 16' long and about 4' high. 
The openings are "graduated" in size from smaller at bottom and larger at top so if on the ground a hoof not get stuck in them. 
Used with a wood frame you can screw brackets over the bottom/top/sides to make them very secure and safe for divider tops of your stalls.

A wood plank bottom of the stall between 48" and 54" high with the livestock panels then as the stall wall top section....your walls are now 8' tall.
Wood planks that are 2" thick and pressure treated last....and take abuse of hooves hitting them.
Horses can see each other, have great ventilation yet no one can pester, bite or harasses their stall neighbor.

Stalls designed so that door are next to a "solid" wall area stops the cranky horse from taking out his attitude on his neighbor. If done correctly no one is in the others face during feeding time yet all can see each other for company.
Dutch doors are lovely, but if it is inside the barn you really don't need the tops.
The wood doors and walls are also so pretty till someone has a bad day and they chew the heck out of the cross-bars on the door or rake the teeth on the walls or just plain chew them.....
If looking to keep expenses down look into gates, actual round pipe smooth finished pipe field gates for stall doors.
They make gates 4' wide, 54" high with a mesh bottom that will prevent a hoof getting through it...allows light and best is ventilation in the stall. Horse can see all that is going on....
Those gates swing easily and can swing back against a wall with minimal fuss or clearance needed. I have a board secured so the "door" can not swing inward. In my feed stall it can swing in, flush to the wall and I love it when I am stacking heavy bales they fit easily through that opening. Here I _have_ placed a board so it can not be pushed outward as I lock my dogs inside when they come to the barn with me, when moving the horses around they can get underfoot, the dogs are safe and so are the horses legs and feet.

_I would go with the 12' wide aisle._
That extra width allows you to pass safely with a bale of hay, wheelbarrow, or your saddle when a horse is standing in the aisle for any reason.
Also allows a farm tractor easy access and the feed/hay truck to get where it needs to to unload.
Don't forget more than adequate height clearance...my barn rafters are 10' high. 
When serious bad weather arrives, the horses are tucked in their individual stalls, the truck and trailer pulled in to protect it and we are good...

Oh...with those livestock panels you could cut the wire so a feed scoop can slip through and dump directly in the bucket. Just plan carefully so a nose from the neighbor does not also find that opening and get bit for trespassing during feeding time.

In designing your stalls.._.this is 100% honest..._
My two horses are16 hands, {1 is a big-boned Thoroughbred, other is a stocky Quarter Horse} fit in one stall often, _comfortably. Their choice...
_My stalls are 12'x12' boxes.... _you can easily do 10'x12' boxes._ 
Less to clean and bed too!! That allows that wider aisle-way you are considering...

Happy planning....
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Acadianartist

Wow, thanks for the pics and tips everyone! And thanks, horselovinguy, for the detailed explanations. Indeed, I was initially going to have larger smalls and a more narrow aisle, but after boarding in a barn where the aisle is maybe 7 ft wide, I realized it is a mistake. Stalls do not need to be 12 x 12 for my little 14.2 Arab. Don't know what the next horse will look like, but neither my daughter nor I like a large horse so we're looking at 15h or less. I'm thinking we will appreciate the wider aisle. 

The livestock panels are a good idea. They don't look too pricey and I love the open feel. 

And yes, something to keep the stall doors open! Excellent point. They have sliding doors where we board now and because the floors have shifted and are no longer level, one of the sliders will not stay open. It's very annoying and we have to prop it open with something to clean the stall. 

I'm thinking of doing what Rain Shadow posted, with the doors not side-by-side, and with livestock panels on top except over the door which would remain open. Everything would have those corner metal pieces to cover them. Although, my plan is to leave my horses out as much as possible so hopefully they won't have too much time to get bored, but I'd rather protect those surfaces before they get too damaged.


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## horselovinguy

*Everything would have those corner metal pieces to cover them.

*A suggestion regarding this ^^^^^^.......

_*Do not use the stuff for making corners with drywall. {aka drywall corner bead}*_
You *need* heavy duty metal that a horse can not grab, rip and tear with his teeth and in turn rip & tear his skin....

The livestock panels are readily available at most Tractor Supply Stores at a reasonable cost...probably the best I've seen by me.
_Feedlot Panel, Cattle, 16 ft. L x 50 in. H - For Life Out Here
Feedlot Panel, Combo, 16 ft. L x 52 in. H - For Life Out Here
Feedlot Panel, Sheep/Goat, 16 ft. L x 48 in. H - For Life Out Here
Horse Fence Panel, 5 ft. x 16 ft. - For Life Out Here
_If you look carefully at the photos you can see the differences in the opening sizes...the horse panels _*are*_ expensive and since they _*are not*_ being used on the ground.... _I knew it not to be really a necessity for safety._

This is the actual web page and offers 13 "choices" of feed lot panels...
As you will see, there is a great variety in pricing....
_Search Results for livestock panelsÂ*at Tractor Supply Co._

So...
I happen to have the cattle panels in my barn....
_I love them_, my horses have company yet no one is in the others face if I must lock them in at feeding time for any reason....
Would I do this again if I built another barn... _YES, in a heartbeat._
Well, let me just say I purchased the cattle panels for 1/4 the cost of the horse ones.... 
We cut to length easily what we needed and used the "leftovers" for some other projects around the property....

As I said, "Enjoy your project"....
:runninghorse2:...


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## Acadianartist

horselovinguy said:


> *Everything would have those corner metal pieces to cover them.
> 
> *A suggestion regarding this ^^^^^^.......
> 
> _*Do not use the stuff for making corners with drywall. {aka drywall corner bead}*_
> You *need* heavy duty metal that a horse can not grab, rip and tear with his teeth and in turn rip & tear his skin....
> 
> The livestock panels are readily available at most Tractor Supply Stores at a reasonable cost...probably the best I've seen by me.
> _Feedlot Panel, Cattle, 16 ft. L x 50 in. H - For Life Out Here
> Feedlot Panel, Combo, 16 ft. L x 52 in. H - For Life Out Here
> Feedlot Panel, Sheep/Goat, 16 ft. L x 48 in. H - For Life Out Here
> Horse Fence Panel, 5 ft. x 16 ft. - For Life Out Here
> _If you look carefully at the photos you can see the differences in the opening sizes...the horse panels _*are*_ expensive and since they _*are not*_ being used on the ground.... _I knew it not to be really a necessity for safety._
> 
> This is the actual web page and offers 13 "choices" of feed lot panels...
> As you will see, there is a great variety in pricing....
> _Search Results for livestock panelsÂ*at Tractor Supply Co._
> 
> So...
> I happen to have the cattle panels in my barn....
> _I love them_, my horses have company yet no one is in the others face if I must lock them in at feeding time for any reason....
> Would I do this again if I built another barn... _YES, in a heartbeat._
> Well, let me just say I purchased the cattle panels for 1/4 the cost of the horse ones....
> We cut to length easily what we needed and used the "leftovers" for some other projects around the property....
> 
> As I said, "Enjoy your project"....
> :runninghorse2:...


Hmmm... ok, will try to see what others are using to cover the tops of their doors. I have seen those metal corners in our lesson barn, but I take your point about the possibility of having them ripped out.

Also, we do not have a Tractor Supply here. Nearest one is in the US and any money I might save on the price will be lost in currency difference, duty at the border, shipping if I have it shipped and travel costs if I go myself. As I said, I have very limited access to supplies and may well have to order everything in. We do have a Co-Op Country store that will have the panels/gates and some other hardware.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I've dealt with sliding doors before. Unless you are wanting to constantly be oiling them and cleaning the tracks, I'd go with swinging doors. The doors at the barn I worked at were sliding metal and hadn't been well-maintained. It's dusty here in AZ and the barn doors were pretty much always left open unless there was severe/cold weather. Those doors were heavy and were a pain in the butt to open and close, especially if you had a horse in hand. Most of the horses were pretty easy to manage, but even then, they would get bored standing around for five minutes while we tried to wrestle the door open.


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## jaydee

If the aisle is wide enough then dutch doors can be easier to deal with - I do have one wood and metal sliding door at the rear entrance/exit point of the barn and its pretty heavy to open/close so your daughter might struggle with one
I have top grilles on some of my half doors - both horses that have them tend to lean over the door to retrieve hay that they drop onto the floor outside of their stable and that eventually weakens the hinges or the bolt fastenings if they regularly put enough weight on them
They're also useful if you get a horse that likes to nip at others as they go by - usually very sociable in the field but take pleasure in doing that
I don't have open bars between my stables and never have, I find more horses dislike being able to see the one next door in that way than actually like it, they seem protective about what they see as their space and their food - they can see the other horses if they want too by looking over their doors. 
I've got windows in each stable and plenty of air coming through the centre aisle that's got a door at each end plus fans running all day in the hot weather


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## Avna

"Livestock panel" comes in several different grid spacings, although it is all sold in 16' long pieces. (generally won't fit in a pickup, I've tried). The tighter the grid, the more expensive. The graduated spacing (smallest at the bottom and getting bigger going up) is called _hog panel_. The 4" square type is called _sheep panel_ and the something like 10" x 6"grid is called _cattle panel_. 

It's great material, we've used a great deal of it in our goat barn. But. When cut, the ends of those wires will be sharp even if cut flush. Even if rasped smoother. Large, thin-skinned, panicky animals and sharp edges in close quarters are a bad combo. So be sure to enclose all cut pieces of livestock panel in a wood frame of some kind.


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## Horseychick87

I love dutch/ half doors, but I'm always weary of exposed wood being chewed to pieces. However I do like these: 
Large Stall Gate with Yoke | Dover Saddlery

(I'd search for them from other suppliers as Dover is a bit overpriced, LOL.) They allow better airflow, the horses can hang their heads out and they are metal so not a huge deal if they try to chew on them.


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## natisha

Acadianartist said:


> Wow, thanks for the pics and tips everyone! And thanks, horselovinguy, for the detailed explanations. Indeed, I was initially going to have larger smalls and a more narrow aisle, but after boarding in a barn where the aisle is maybe 7 ft wide, I realized it is a mistake. Stalls do not need to be 12 x 12 for my little 14.2 Arab. Don't know what the next horse will look like, but neither my daughter nor I like a large horse so we're looking at 15h or less. I'm thinking we will appreciate the wider aisle.
> 
> The livestock panels are a good idea. They don't look too pricey and I love the open feel.
> 
> And yes, something to keep the stall doors open! Excellent point. They have sliding doors where we board now and because the floors have shifted and are no longer level, one of the sliders will not stay open. It's very annoying and we have to prop it open with something to clean the stall.
> 
> I'm thinking of doing what Rain Shadow posted, with the doors not side-by-side, and with livestock panels on top except over the door which would remain open. Everything would have those corner metal pieces to cover them. Although, my plan is to leave my horses out as much as possible so hopefully they won't have too much time to get bored, but I'd rather protect those surfaces before they get too damaged.


Sliding doors are easily adjustable.


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## avjudge

Question: Why do so many barns have half-height doors but generally (except Rain Shadow's barn photo) the front of the stall is closed with a grill? 

If you're letting the horses hang their heads out, seems you might as well let them do it everywhere (not just the door) and not worry about making a grill for the front.

If you have a horse you don't trust to stick its head out, for example because it nips, or you worry about it trying to jump out (I think there was a thread about that here a while ago), seems you'd want the door closed up, too.


When we had use of a neighbor's barn, it had the exact opposite - solid full-height swinging doors, but open tops to the rest of the stall front. I loved the open fronts - feed bowls were in a front corner, so I just poured the grain in from outside, and I could toss hay over the front (we just fed hay on the floor).

Also, when horses were standing with their heads out, they weren't blocking the door. They generally didn't spend any time in the corner in front of the door, since there was nothing to do there.

The full-height doors swung inward, which is generally described as a no-no, so they opened 90 degrees against the side wall of the stall, and that worked well for us. But then, I also loved my concrete floors which I bedded DEEP with wood shavings/sawdust so they felt really springy underfoot. So lots of non-standard things. 

But I know the reasons the items in that last paragraph are considered not optimal; I don't know why people close the upper half of the stall front but not the door.

Anne


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## Acadianartist

avjudge said:


> Question: Why do so many barns have half-height doors but generally (except Rain Shadow's barn photo) the front of the stall is closed with a grill?
> 
> If you're letting the horses hang their heads out, seems you might as well let them do it everywhere (not just the door) and not worry about making a grill for the front.
> 
> If you have a horse you don't trust to stick its head out, for example because it nips, or you worry about it trying to jump out (I think there was a thread about that here a while ago), seems you'd want the door closed up, too.
> 
> 
> When we had use of a neighbor's barn, it had the exact opposite - solid full-height swinging doors, but open tops to the rest of the stall front. I loved the open fronts - feed bowls were in a front corner, so I just poured the grain in from outside, and I could toss hay over the front (we just fed hay on the floor).
> 
> Also, when horses were standing with their heads out, they weren't blocking the door. They generally didn't spend any time in the corner in front of the door, since there was nothing to do there.
> 
> The full-height doors swung inward, which is generally described as a no-no, so they opened 90 degrees against the side wall of the stall, and that worked well for us. But then, I also loved my concrete floors which I bedded DEEP with wood shavings/sawdust so they felt really springy underfoot. So lots of non-standard things.
> 
> But I know the reasons the items in that last paragraph are considered not optimal; I don't know why people close the upper half of the stall front but not the door.
> 
> Anne


I guess one of the reasons people want part of the top of the stall enclosed is so horses can't play around and nip each other. Even the best behaved horses can get bored and decide to chew on their neighbor's ear. As long as the doors are separated by a length of grille, they can see each other, but can't reach each other. But I would like to find a way to do this while having access to the corner feed bucket which obviously, I can't place in front of the door.

Edited to add: I can see how what you're describing would work well. The only concern I would have is that the door would be much heavier and therefore might put more pressure on the hinges.*


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## verona1016

avjudge said:


> Question: Why do so many barns have half-height doors but generally (except Rain Shadow's barn photo) the front of the stall is closed with a grill?


For a home barn I tend to agree. If horses are fighting with each other around the wall you can put up a small panel to keep them far enough away to keep them from doing that, otherwise I don't see any particular reason to keep them from hanging their head out the whole length of the stall front. The picture Rain Shadow posted is probably pretty close to what I would want to build for a home barn- though I'd probably have the doors swinging into the stall instead of out.

I personally dislike the use of cattle panels around horses. Horses can get their hooves caught in those openings (especially the 4x4 grids), even when they're high up. I like things to be either too small for a hoof to get through or large enough that it's nearly impossible to get trapped in it. 

A barn I used to board at had horse panels (2x4 grid) between some of the stalls, bordered on all sides with wood, and it did seem like the horses appreciated being able to see their neighbors.


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## Woodhaven

My father built the horse stalls in my sister's barn over 50 years ago. The doors are swing and have bars on the top half so the horses can not hang over the door and put weight on it. These doors have not had any fixing or repairs once during that 50 + years. The fronts of the stalls are open so the horses can hang out there. One stall has a metal (angle iron??) on top to prevent the then time resident from chewing. The water buckets are just inside the door for easy access and the hay is put over the top into the stall and there is a grain holder beside the water bucket. The stall doors are situated so the horses cannot have their heads together when looking out altho' our horses get along great so not a problem.
With sliding doors there is more maintenance and with the severe cold winters, my friend's sliding doors the floor heaved and it was awful getting the doors open.
If you are going to have electric outlets near for heated water buckets etc. be sure the horses can not chew on them.
The one drawback with our swinging doors is this was an old cattle barn and the aisle is narrow so not much room for swinging doors but as it's a private barn the horses are used to this and are good going down the aisle, but a wider alley way would be great. We have boards dividing the stalls up so high, about 6 or so feet then open above that but for better air circulation boards on the bottom five feet then bars on top would be better.


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## Acadianartist

Woodhaven said:


> My father built the horse stalls in my sister's barn over 50 years ago. The doors are swing and have bars on the top half so the horses can not hang over the door and put weight on it.


Yes! That would allow me to keep the top of the stalls open over the water and feed buckets but still prevent the horses from reaching each other! I don't like the idea of a full height solid door, but a door with bars on top would work. 

Thanks!


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## Woodhaven

And if your daughter is doing the feeding, you can put a stool on the outside of the stall and she can stand on that to put the feed over and if she only fills a water pail part way full she can tip the water over the top into the water pail. Sis's grandchildren do this.
I built a stall here at home for a horse and we used the cattle panels but I worried that the horse might lay down and if he was startled or jumped up suddenly he might get a foot out through the panel openings and injure himself so I made my husband put boards on the bottom two openings. This stall was 15' by 35' so probably not a problem but I slept better at night.


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## WhattaTroublemaker

I know horses who push sliding doors off the track with their butts to break out, so swinging doors all the way. When we first built our barn they had the complete inside chewed out of it within a year and we had to refinish the inside. When we did we covered every "chew spot" with thin tin sheeting. So walls in front of them, stall walls, and door tops. Out of all five horses none ever tried to chew the tin, we had one who licked it all the time but spraying it with white vinegar seemed to keep him from doing it.


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## natisha

They make bar stall fronts with an opening for feeding.

All my stalls have bars on the fronts & dividing stalls. The doors have bars too.
I have sliding doors & have never had a problem in 16 years. Never had to clean the tracks or adjust the doors either.

This is the company I used. Their catalog has a lot of good ideas, many any handy person could do themselves.
Catalog : Welcome to Woodstar, A stall for every stable


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## natisha

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> I know horses who push sliding doors off the track with their butts to break out, so swinging doors all the way. When we first built our barn they had the complete inside chewed out of it within a year and we had to refinish the inside. When we did we covered every "chew spot" with thin tin sheeting. So walls in front of them, stall walls, and door tops. Out of all five horses none ever tried to chew the tin, we had one who licked it all the time but spraying it with white vinegar seemed to keep him from doing it.


Door stops prevent pushing the door out.


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## Acadianartist

natisha said:


> Door stops prevent pushing the door out.


Possibly, but I know exactly what Whatta means as there is a percheron X in our stable and he is destroying his stall. He rubs his butt on everything, including his sliding door, which is constantly giving the owners trouble. Luckily Harley is not that kind of horse, but I still like the fact that I can have my contractor build me dutch doors easily whereas for sliding doors, I'd have to order in a mechanism and will have limited choices (and prices) from which to buy. 

With a 12 ft aisle and only two horses, I don't think the dutch doors will be an issue.


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## Dehda01

I love sliding doors for ease of use, and how much room they save in the barn. I have had swinging doors in multiple barns and have had them get in my way, be too low and catch on the ground( my fault, I built that door... But also wanted the door low enough not get a good stuck and a sill not high enough to cause a horse having to step into a stall ) and I have had horses jump OVER Dutch doors. 

I now have a open stall plan with no grills on the front of my stalls, because I like having my horses stick their heads out. But my new 2yr old has decided she will jump over the 5.5ft wall if she is bored, she we had to put a grill up on her stall. At 9pm at night, the second day we had her. 

Grills can help when you have horses with separation anxiety, you don't have to worry if they are going to leave their stalls in the middle of the night....


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## Tazmanian Devil

Regarding chew protection for wood edges on doors...

I have seen several items on websites for this. Chew guards, etc. it looks like a piece of steel that fits over the top edge of a 2x6 wall or door board. Am unable to post links at the moment, but I have seen prices in the $15 range. Seems easier than trying to fashion a homemade one.


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## Skyseternalangel

natisha said:


> Door stops prevent pushing the door out.


Not for a determined horse. One at my barn has bent the hell out of the door stops, replaced twice.. and bolts replaced three times I think is what I recall hearing.


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## dawnandduke2002

Ok, here we go. I did not build my barn; the first generation of Matschullats that came from germany did. So, it has a completely open concept. We've used it as a calving barn, horse barn... etc. So; there is three normal stall (idk the size), one biggish stall (like twice the width of a normal stall), and a new stall I'm building this summer. The walls in between the stall are boards with gaps between them, but tall enough for the horses not to stick their heads over. Then, in the front is just big gates, for all those fat cows and horses that come through.  We've screwed hooks right beside the inside of the gate so we just have to reach over and hook the bucket, then take it off when their done. Also, there is a salt block holder on the stall wall, always filled, and the water is usually in a 20 gallon bucket on the ground filled with water or a smaller bucket on another hook.


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## Mindayw

I am a new member and this is an old thread - But thanks everyone.
This information is excellent as we convert an old cattle barn for a couple of horses.


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