# Lope - What am I doing wrong?



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

CheyRider said:


> Hi, I have a question, it's not really a big problem, but it makes me wonder:
> I learned English riding (at good riding schools, for many years) and self-trained myself in Western over the last 18 years, using more and more elements from Western riding. I never rode a "real" Western horse, so I don't even know how close I am to "real" Western riding - but the only Western trainer who has ever seen me ride seemed impressed enough and said I had a super-soft hand and might even be able to ride her (very peculiar one-person-only, noone else can even saddle him) horse. Unfortunately we never tried, so I don't know how it would have gone....
> Anyway, all that just to say I'm not too bad of a rider...
> Now the question: When I get my horse into a lope / canter the "Western way", outer leg slighty back, inner leg passive, impulse with outside leg... she ALWAYS starts on the wrong lead. I have tried it without bending her in any way, with riding a circle to help her in the right lead, with letting her leg-yield from the inside leg before the lope, she will always start on the the lead I did not intend her to start on. When I give her the signals the English way, outer leg back, impulse with inner leg, she jumps right into the right lead.
> ...


I think the issue there is that the horse is young, not ridden for too long yet ( in 18 months you cannot achieve too much without overdoing it) so she is confused by the other canter command, and I think you should stick to the same one as you use in english riding. It seems to me she just has too many commands, cues to learn and is getting confused. If he is used to inside pressure to raise canter, then that is what she will do. However, helps you train counter canter later


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Hm, thing is, I didn't train her to do it English at all - she was prepped on the ground to canter with kissing sound, and that's what I started doing in the saddle at first, no leg cues at all. Then I introduced the leg cues before the sound cue - only recently I started to leave out the sound cue, or rather, give it only when she doesn't react to the leg cue. And only then did I start paying attention to which lead she was going, and noticed that she reacted reverse to what I would have expected. That's when I simply tried the English version, and found out she naturally starts right with that.
So, I wouldn't say she's confused, I don't change back and forth or anything, I changed my riding style quite a bit over the last 18 years, but have been pretty consistent with her, and haven't asked much of her other than going the speed and direction I want, and a few simple exercises like turning on the forehand, backing up and such. However, I will stick with the English command for canter since it works so well for her. I'd just like to know why that is so... I should probably find a Western horse and find out if it's my mistake or just her preference...


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

I'm confused. She's going to canter/lope off using the cues you've trained her to respond to; why would you expect her to lope off correctly to a cue you have not taught her?

Incidentally, every horse I've ridden and shown both western and english received the same cues for the corresponding gait; the exact speed (walk/working walk, jog/trot/extended trot, lope/canter/hand gallop) is dictated from a combination of that same initial cue and how much I'm driving with my seat and leg. Expecting a similar response (canter/lope) from opposite cues (inside leg/outside leg pressure) seems like a very good way to frustrate your horse.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

are the cues to canter different>? forgive my ignorance, but I always thought it was outside leg back, inside leg at girth, touch with outside leg, and keep inside leg on lightly, rider advances inside hip, and horse should be slightly flexed to inside.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I don't really think the cues is different. Depending on the horse I always use some pressure on the inside leg. The idea behind the outside leg is to move the hip inside, hence the horse will get the correct lead. I'd just do it the way you always do it, the saddle doesn't matter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Well, the cues do differ, at least the way it's taught over here... in English, the outside leg is put back, but doesn't apply pressure. Inside leg applies pressure. But I heard some Western riders do it just like that, while most seem to use the outside leg and leave the inside still...

Cynical25, the thing is, I never taught her to react to the English system. She was not ridden English, ever. I started her Western, which is a lot different to English, especially with a young horse. I just tried the English cue for canter after the Western method resulted in opposite reaction, just to see what would happen, and - tadada, correct lead. So, either I'm doing something wrong, maybe shift my weight involuntarily, or the English cue is for some reason more natural for my horse... I just thought maybe someone knowledgeable might have an idea...


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## shellybean (Dec 28, 2012)

As long as your horse knows how to pick it up correctly on one cue, I wouldn't confuse/frustrate her by assuming she should know it without teaching it. 

ALL of the lesson horses I rode growing up used outside leg to pick up the canter/lope...They rode western and english. The Warmbloods I leased were taught with inside leg pressure to pick it up which I found bizarre (hunter/dressage horses). I always thought all horses were taught with outside leg pressure to pick up their canter/lope until I rode those 2 horses.

I taught my horse to canter under saddle the same way you did. Associate "kiss" noises on the ground with cantering during training and moving it up to riding in the saddle, and slowly adding a cue, and it worked wonderfully. If you really want to teach her the other way perhaps you could start all over? I'm not a trainer by any means but to _me_, that makes the most sense if you are wanting to teach her a new cue. You can't expect her to know something she wasn't taught.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I think you need to forget about differentiating English from Western. That is just a description for tack. Basic horsemanship doesn't change when the saddle changes.


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Well, the one difference you can make for sure is that in English riding, there are much more precise and fixed rules as to how things are done... I guarantee you, you won't find an English horse over here that's trained to start with outside leg cue, only those that have learned that when the leg goes back, the inner leg will follow with the cue, and start "early" - which a lot of people don't want to see. You can read twenty books on English riding and they will not differ much in their description of how to ride. But read twenty books on Western riding, and your head will be spinning with differing and often opposing information. 
Personally, I like that with Western riding, there is more flexibility, more different styles. Some Western riding is very close to English or classical riding, some is very "realistic" ranch work type, some is extremely specialized and doesn't seem much good for anything else but the show ring (no offense, to each their own). In a forum of English riders, people can discuss for pages and pages on the correct position of the rider's inner hand during a six-meter circle, or if the head position of the horse in that photo should not be a half inch less in the vertical... ya know.
Even with horsemanship in general, excluding riding, I could write half a novel of the differences without even having to think about it... 
It's definitely not about tack, I know that, I'm a happy tack mixer myself


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## disastercupcake (Nov 24, 2012)

Your horse probably needs the support of your inside leg. 

The canter is a naturally lateral gait. Your horse will be bent while performing the canter. You said your horse has only been under saddle for 18 months. She most likely does not have the balance and strength to make a correct canter strike-off without the support of your inside leg holding her to the bend. The way you describe it, I don't think it's a training issue, but rather asking your horse too much too soon. She still needs that extra support of the inside leg. 

That said, it's odd that you're taught to canter with pressure from in the inside leg, as that should only denote your center for the horse to bend around, or move away from. Both legs together will generate impulsion. In classical english riding, the canter is always started with the outside leg slightly behind the girth, and the outside seat bone.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^This. Because a canter or lope depart starts in the backend, the outside leg a tad behind the girth is the cue. The inside leg at the girth controls the front end to stabilize. Whether I'm riding hunt seat or western...my cues are the same, outside leg asks for the canter/lope...inside leg closes ever so slightly to keep the front end straight, shoulder up etc.


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## WeaveAndLeave142 (Feb 10, 2014)

Have you ruled out pain as a possibility?

When I first got my mare (5 years ago) she was 4 years old and green as could be. When asking for the canter/lope, she would move into it, but she would never pick up her right hand lead. 

Long story short, we had the chiropractor out and she was badly out of line. She also had a kidney infection (which a chiropractor should be able to tell) and she was stiff in her hocks. So very sore. 

I really felt blessed that my little 4 year old tried so hard for me. Don't get too frustrated until you are sure pain isn't causing it. I hope I helped some and good luck with those leads, I'm sure you'll find a solution


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I could never understand why the horse's head is bent into the circle when asking for the correct lead. If you watch a horse at liberty, travelling in a straight line, his head is a little to the outside for balance. Utilizing this, I never had any trouble getting a horse on a correct lead.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^ I don't bend their head in either direction....the head should ALWAYS be straight when asking for lope/canter depart. Bending the head will do nothing....it all starts from the hind end.


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## ArabianGirl27 (Aug 5, 2012)

It could be something you're doing naturally with your weight, like leaning a bit more or a bit less, that helps her pick up the right lead when you ask "the English way."

Or, maybe your horse just prefers that cue over the western one.

When I was teaching my horse to spin around (like in reining, but much slower...for now at least), she had never been taught it before (to turn with leg commands only, I mean). I kept asking her to spin with my leg forward, more toward her shoulder (both bareback and with a saddle), but she never really got it. I always had to back up the cue with the reins.

I tried by swinging my leg way back, and she instantly spins right around, no questions asked.

Either my balance was different when I used the second cue, which made it clearer or easier for her to execute the spin; or she simply likes the second cue better. I've always noticed (even before then--that's why I tried it) that she turns sharper when I swing my leg back. I don't know why, she's never been taught like that (at least, I don't think so), yet she listens to it so much better.

But personally, I use the same command for a lope/canter whether I'm riding English or western. I swing my outside leg back and keep my inside leg still, and squeeze with both legs. Some horses are trained differently, but this seems to work no matter what horse I'm riding.


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