# Devils claw dose? How long until I can expect results?



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm looking into using Devils claw, and some other natural herbs, as an anti-inflammatory for my mare who was just diagnosed with some heal pain suspectedly due to some navicular-like changes. Ideally I'd like to use this for the everyday, chronic, pain and keep bute on hand for any "break through" pain. 

She is currently getting SmartPak's SmartCombo Senior, which contains Devils claw (1,750mg) and boswellia (500mg). I'd like to start her on MVP DC-Y too because it contains some other things the Smartcombo doesn't, but is it to much Devils claw? 



Also, how long before I can start to see the result of the supplements? She's been on them for 5 days now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

That's the thing with supplements, there aren't good clinical trials to prove safe/effective dosing or when results can be expected. They also aren't free of side effects. Devil's claw causes GI upset.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I agree that the actual research on a lot of herbal supplements is spotty to nonexistent. There is a horse at the barn who is on devils claw but I don't see much of a difference in his condition or weight he has been on it for about three months.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I tried Devils Claw some years ago and it made no difference at all to the pony's stiffness - and it gave her ulcers
White Willow bark has similar side effects to aspirin so can also cause stomach irritation used long term
Turmeric is high in iron so if you live in a high iron area and you feed anything with iron in it then that could also cause problems
'Natural' doesn't always mean safe
Previcox worked well for my old mare with the least stomach problems


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Agree with the general problem with natural products.
First, true efficacy trails are missing, plus the idea of 'natural' often gives the subliminal message that no harmful side effects exist
Lastly, quality control is often lax, with actual amount and ingredients themselves, not present in the stated amount.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

This is a case where "more is not better" in terms of adding product on top of product.

I am the first one to give my full support to herbs and the holistic route but it doesn't always work. As a matter of record, horses with any level of insulin issues or cushings, cannot have Devils Claw or Turmeric. 

I know that doesn't apply to the OP but, my point is arbitrarily giving these to a horse because someone else does or the ads sound good, is not the thing to do

if your vet doesn't want to hear the words "holistic, herbal, eastern medicine" you might search the Internet, using your zip code and hopefully find a vet that does. Combining traditional Western medicine with other things seems to be gaining some popularity. At least it thankfully has in my area.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I used to give DC-Y to Lacey for her eyes. 
She had ERU and it was painful for her during the summer, even with a 95%UV-blocking flymask and other care. She reacted badly to bute, so I gave her DC-Y everyday and saved bute for when she was actually having an acute ERU episode and needed bute to recover.

She was also insulin resistant [I had never heard that you should give Devil's Claw to IR horses! interesting], but I never saw direct complications from that.

Anywayyyy, I started her out on the "recommended" dose, then noticed that she did ok with half a dose. I continued to lower the dose until I saw her get uncomfortable. It turned out that, for her body, 1/4 the recommended dose was all she needed for daily pain relief.

She received DC-Y daily, at the 1/4 dose level, for two summers before she passed away [she had no need of it in the winter when light levels were lower].


I was always super careful to never give her DC-Y and Bute on the same day [they can have a dangerous interaction]. I made sure there was always at least 24 hours between the two. Sometimes it meant she was in pain for longer than I wanted, but so goes life. 


In any case, I really liked DC-Y. I would not hesitate to use it again as a "natural" pain reliever.
Bute definitely did a better job handling inflammation/pain, but DC-Y was respectably close.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm all for 'natural' type treatments where possible/appropriate, but I do agree with other's cautions. There are little scientific studies done, and amounts & quality of active ingredients can be... all over the place. Also the term 'natural' is not synonymous with 'safe' or 'good' or 'better' necessarily & it pays to learn & weigh up all pros & cons, as with drugs/'unnatural' treatments.

But absence of 'proof' does not equal proof of absence, and in many things, there is a LOT of anecdotal evidence... & surely there is also a point that enough anecdotal adds up to 'proof' anyway.



walkinthewalk said:


> As a matter of record, horses with any level of insulin issues or cushings, cannot have Devils Claw or Turmeric.


Really?? I did look into 'contraindications' etc, but I give both turmeric & devil's claw to 2 of mine, who are also likely mild IR, and I've never heard that! Where can I get more info Walkin??


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm not normally a believer in supplements but I tried this on a mare with low ringbone and it improved her tremendously. 10 days of using bute before I bought this didn't help her in the least. Then I used it for a pony with ERU and then my old guy who was stiff from old age. It helped in every instance so I became a believer for this particular supplement and recommend it anytime someone asks about long term pain or inflammation relief. None of those 3 ever suffered from any side effect but by the same token the environment they are in does not make them prone to ulcers in the first place (full turnout, pretty much 24/7 pasture except when I limit their spring grass intake). 

This company is also a member of the National Animal Supplement Control which does inspections and monitors quality. You can read it about it here:

NASC Seal - NASC LIVE


Slidestop, you can usually see results in 2 - 3 days, sometimes less if you're using for something minor like a stone bruise. I would not use it alongside another supplement containing the same ingredients and it tells you on the label not to use with other NSAIDS.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I read the back of a supplement that had DC, Yucca, tumeric, plus G-C....it did warn against feeding to IR horses, but also those allergic to shellfish, which CRACKED me up!! My lobster-eating equine better NOT come up allergic, lol!!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Turmeric is high in iron so not ideal for horses with hoof problems when used on a regular basis
Devils Claw can mess with blood sugar levels which in turn can mess up insulin production which you don't want with a horse/pony that's already got IR
There seems to have been more research done on humans than horses re. side effects
devil's claw: Uses, Side Effects, Interactions and Warnings - WebMD

Quote from a horse website that acknowledged from trials done in France that analgesic effects were positive 
But
_It is the anti-inflammatory effect of Devil’s Claw that is controversial. Some studies show a marked effect, while others report little effect at the same dose. The main difference between the two extremes is the way in which it is administered. When injected into the site of swelling, the effect is greatest. Also, when it was injected into the small intestine (and therefore bypasses the stomach), the effect was greater than when fed by mouth._
_Scientists put two and two together and suspected that the stomach acid partially broke down the active ingredients of the root. To prove this, they injected an extract of Devil’s Claw that they had previously mixed with acid in the lab. Confirming their suspicions, the acid hydrolysed root had a lesser effect than the same root which had not been mixed with acid. The main consequence of this is that, when fed by mouth, a higher dose is needed than when injected. This is true of a lot of drugs._

It is illegal to use in competitions


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## budley95 (Aug 15, 2014)

Be very careful with devils claw. It can cause more problems than it cures, from a human supplements company point of view I hate it when somebody orders it, the amount of times people have had a reaction from taking too much or taking it when they have health issues which it warns against and they flat out lie about it when they're questioned.

Have you checked out Alphabute for bad days? Alphabute from Global Herbs That stuff is brilliant!


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Thanks for replying everyone. 

I totally get that just because something says "natural" doesn't mean it cannot cause harm. They surely have their fair share of side effects, but so does ANY medication, especially long term bute use. Why not try something a little less claustic on the body? If it doesn't work at least I can say I tried! 

If I don't see an improvement (or rather I see things going down hill) with the supplement she is currently on (smartcombo senior) I'm going to give the Smarthoof Circulate a try. Currently she is tolerating our long walks, 20 min lunges and 20 min rides. She hasn't been ridden much at all since September (she had a huge health fiasco then) until she went out on pasture in December. So far everything has been ok, knock wood!! 

https://www.smartpakequine.com/mobile/ps/8246#Ingredients
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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