# Sooty Buckskin with Dun factoring??



## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

This is my new gelding. He is only 1 year and 3 months... and his coat isn't all that great from being on a poor diet before I got him a couple of weeks ago. What color would you guys say he is?? I can see a faint dorsal stripe in most of his pictures, and some shadowing on his neck, shoulders and backside.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

He is a sooty buckskin. The dorsal and shoulder markings you are seeing is called counter-shading.

he's very handsome.
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## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

Thank you!! I think once he is healthy he will be gorgeous!!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I don't see any dun factor just false primitive markings caused by counter shading. 
He's the dorsal on my Dunskin. You can see the difference between your horses and a true dorsal.
















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## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

I'm sorry I didn't mean he was a Dun, just that he had the markings, or what appears to be, of a dorsal stripe and some shadowing. I guess I should have put counter-shading instead of dun factor markings!  Your horse is beautiful! I love Duns.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

I dont see buckskin OR dun. 

I see a smokey brown.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

BreakableRider said:


> I dont see buckskin OR dun.
> 
> I see a smokey brown.


A smokey brown is brown based agouti instead bay based agouti. Smokey brown is a buckskin just a brown based buckskin.
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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

....... Understood, which is why I posted it. 

The difference should still be noted as they have a completely different tone than a buckskin.


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## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok, so he is or isn't a buckskin?? And if he isn't, then what is a sooty buckskin truly called? This is interesting! I was going to send in hairs for genetics. Will that tell me exactly what he is? And what should I test for? Agouti? Creme dilution??


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

IMO he is brown based not bay nut does carry cream. A brownskin instead of a buckskin if you will. 

Brown and bay are both forms of agouti. Brown is At instead of A which marks a buckskin. The only place that I know of that can distinguish the difference between bay and brown is pet dna. All other places will simply show that he is bay, not being able to distinguish the two. 

A plain brown horse is much darker than a bay. Oftentimes they are mistaken for blacks. Like any color there is quite a range buy many show such as this: 









A black looking body with lightened flanks and muzzle. 

Others are light enough that people simply call them dark bay. 

Since they are darker than a bay they are also darker when they have cream as well.

Here is another smokey brown, you can see just how similar your horse and see are. 
Rosalie’s Gold « True Colours Farm


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## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

Ok, I see what you are saying! So then what is a sooty buckskin? Is that actually a "brownskin" too?


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## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

I also found conflicting information on sites, one of which buckskin horses , shows a chart with the At gene in buckskins and the color being brown, mouse or sooty buckskin. It also says "Buckskins and palominos are horses with a single copy of the cream gene. The first have either bay or brown base coats, but smokey blacks were also registered as buckskins."
So I'm not sure to go with, but I guess ultimately a DNA test would help clear it up!! Thanks for all the help, I never thought there would be so much information to process!!


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

The vast majority of "sooty buckskins" are smokey brown (correct term), or brownskin as I said earlier to make it a bit more clear what it is. 

As far as the registry confusion there are not enough choices. You just have to pick whichever is closest to your horses color. 

To the vast majority of people calling a smokey brown a buckskin is the easiest thing do do as much people aren't color geeks and won't have a clue what it is, that's why people usually call them sooty buckskins.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Here you go here's a real sooty buckskin 








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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

I'm genuinely curious, has he been tested and confirmed as such?


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

No sure. But you can see his base his a light gold with the sooty over the top. I really don't believe this horse is brown based. We've talked about this guy before. To me there is a clear visual difference between this guy and a brown based buckskin.
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## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

So if he was a brown based buckskin, wouldn't his "soft points" be darker than a normal buckskin?? His face, flanks, belly and hams are extremely light, much like the picture you posted Peppy! All of the browns I have found pictures of have dark faces, not saying a light colored face isn't possible with it, and again I will have him tested in the next month to figure out this whole mess! LOL I do know one thing though, all of these horses are beautiful no matter what they are!
Here are a couple of different pictures with better lighting. 























Once I got him I started brushing him a lot and a lot of the darkness he had turned light. It's not sun faded either because he was kept in a stall for quarantine for 2 weeks while this process of lightening happened. I do know that horses have different seasonal coat colors which can also attribute to this though. But part of me thinks some of his darkness came from a poor diet, if that is possible?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> Here you go here's a real sooty buckskin
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would still test him for At. 

This would all be much better if whatever causes sooty was isolated and testable. Sigh. There isn't even a rabicano test, so sooty's probably a long way off.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

Not a real sooty buckskin then. I'll happily change my stance if I ever see a horse colored similarly tested as back and not brown by pet DNA. 

Lacelynn, just as there is variation in bays, sorrels etc there is variation in dilutes. Your horse is classic smokey brown IMO. If you look at the example I posted, Rosalie's gold you can see just how strikingly similar your boy is. There is one photo listed with her as a foal by her buckskin dam showing just how very different the tone is.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

If you really want to know 100% sure his color, the test for brown is $40. 

Also, for comparison, this is my mare. She only looks like this immediately after shedding her winter coat. It lasts a couple of weeks and she's back to her normal gold, which I will also post below. Her winter coat, which is usually the biggest giveaway of a brown or brown based horse, looks nothing like brown, so I have no solid reason to believe she carries At.

During this time, she just looks filthy in person. These pictures make it look decent.


















Normal summer coat


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## Lacelynn (Aug 18, 2013)

Thanks everyone! I will get him tested for At, and I will let you guys know what it comes back as. I'm sure you are right though  I have little experience with coat colors and was just going off what his previous owner and the vets had written down :/ I'll love him no matter what, but I was really hoping he was a buckskin! Maybe the next one


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Let us know what he test as. I am curious. I dont know color genetics , but had he been mine I would call him a buckskin.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Well if it makes you feel better to 95% of the horse world he will be a sooty buckskin! Tell them that he is a smokey brown or a brownskin and most people will be shaking their heads


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