# Carting chaos



## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I have a 7yr old pony before i sold him for 3 years i have tired to get him under cart. He will drag a sand drag, he will have PBC pipe next to him as shafts, he ground drives like a pro, but he will not pull cart. Everytime we drop the shafts down he bolts, he will run anyone and everyone over to get away from it. We have tried backing him up into them, trying to trick him into it. Nothing has worked. Now that i have him back after 2 years of being in Flordia im going to try again. He still ground drives the same and everything. He still pulls a sand drag. What can i do to ensure that he will pull? My driving instructure couldn't even get him in the cart and she is a driving champion who trains and shows driving Morgans all over the country.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

No one has an suggestions? =[


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Are you using blinkers? How often? Are you using them with all of your driving prep work? Is he confident in working with you when he can't see you?

When ours are ready to hook, the first thing we hook them to are Indian Shafts. 









Basically they are just two shaft-sized trees, nailed together with a couple two by fours. We can't afford to go out and buy a new cart if one of them bails and tears it up. This inexpensive design can be torn up and it isn't going to be a b***h to replace. 

You hook him with these just like you would a cart, and then long line him or lunge him. And if he bolts, hopefully after he is hooked, you just let him work it out for himself while he is working. Do not let go of your rope. Wear gloves, and lunge him or long line himlike it was any other day. 

You might want to try a light sedative or even a calming agent for the first few times if he is working well unhooked and you are ready to hook him, and he is ready of course. I know many people are very much against it, but we have had great results.

When you go to pull the cart to him, are you coming OVER him, or are you pulling it up behind him? It is kind of hard with the Indian shafts, but it is not in your best interest to come down on him from the top. Just pull it straight in. Don't waste the time and energy by bringing it over him. Pull it straight in. 

If he starts to get bully and tries to bust his way through, I'd honestly say put a stud chain over his nose and make him stand there until you have him securely hooked. Once he is, don't let go of that rope, but let him work it out. Ponies are tough little devils.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Stud chain, lip chain, twich. I have tried it all, he still bolts. He has done everything but had a cart literally on him. We have pulled it behind him and blahblahblah. He has blinders, no blinders, ect.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, then I can't think of anything else that could help you. Sedation and/or admitting defeat are about the only things that come to mind. My first post was what I would try with him.

Or you could hook him with his nose to a big wall, like the side of the barn. Where you gonna bolt now, sucker? To the sides or backwards over the cart(which is where the inexpensive indian shafts would come in). Be careful. 

I don't know if it can be done but good luck.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Putting him to a wall? He would rear. Sedation i might try. Thats a rather good idea.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Can you use a lighter cart? I don't know what type of cart your using, but maybe a lighter cart will be less noticeable to him. When he bolts can you prepare for it and run with him until he calms down, or is that unrealistic? (Too wild, too fast, uncontrollable?) If not maybe have a lunge line attatched to his bridle and when he bolts let him run until he is calm. 

You didn't say whether he kicked back at the cart or not, I wouldn't suggest using the lunge line if he is going to ruin the cart. 
My first thought would be to use as light a cart as possible, like a jog cart. If he is still a little crazy, then I would try either running with him until he tires out or lunging him or long lining in the cart (it would probably have to be outside with a long lunge line or even long lines). Keep enough slack so that if he tries to bolt you have room to give him without letting go. 

I've never tried lunging or long lining with a cart attatched, but it might be just what he needs. Your instructor probably told you this or you probably already know this, but make sure when you hook him, he's far enough away from the cart to do minimal damage, until you know he's safe to drive with. Also, if you don't use a check I would introduce one while you ground drive (very loosely, and tighten it slowly), that way when you try to introduce the cart again, it's harder for him to buck or kick back at the cart. I'm sure your instructor can help you with the check, if you don't already know about it. =]

Good Luck! 
also, has he seen other horses driving? Try following another horse and driver around for a half hour, watch for a few minutes, then walk behind them, beside them, in front of him. So he can get the idea. I'm sure you've probably done this, but maybe try it again a few times.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

When i got him and i first got into 4h (6 years ago) we started right up with driving. We went to driving meetings seminars and such before i sold him he was ground driving for 3 years. We have done everything with him. Pulled a cart beside him. behind him, infront of him. He has seen soo many horses pull cart he doesn't even care to looka t them now. Its just when i want him in the actual cart shaves. He bolts. He has never kicked at a cart.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

maybe he's just not cut out for pulling a cart anymore. is it imperative that he pulls a cart?


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

He never pulled a cart. But its like i can't let him win. He has to pull a cart


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I don't think you'd be letting him win if he's not cut out to pull a cart. That just like some horses are cut out to jump, or do reining. Would you push a horse that wasn't cut out to rein, to do reining?

If you *must* make him pull a cart, why don't you start by dragging all sorts of things behind him. Logs, buckets, etc. It might help him.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

From what she has said, she has pulled all sorts of stuff behind him. It is the Shafts that freak him out(correct?)

You could try a shaft trainer(basically the same thing as the indian shafts above only they don't extend down to drag along the ground). The shafts make .a horse very claustrophobic because they are constant. Your pony has learned if he bolts forward, he can escape being trapped between two scary poles. If he turns, they are there. If he walks off, they are there. 

http://www.drivingincolor.com/training.html
I prefer the wood design of my father because it does put a little weight on it and it doesn't

Keep in mind that driving is more dangerous than riding, pretty much because of the cart. If you get bounced out, or if the cart flips, or if you hook him too close(or the cart shifts foreward), or if he gets the reins caught under his tail, there is a higer chance of it ending in disaster or even the death of your horse. (seen it all)

A horse a the World Championships died this year in a class supposedly because they hooked him too close.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

He has pulled a sand drag, a sled, and other things, but the shaves are his problem. We have had PBC pipe on him, dragging or not. He is fine with that. Its just the cart shaves.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

how is it coming along with your pony?


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Haven't hooked him to a cart yet. Gound driving is so simple to him now, he knows what to do with everything. All we need now is someones junk cart that they arn't scared that it will get trashed :?


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## Lil Bits (Aug 11, 2008)

Maybe something happened in the 3 years he was gone that you don't know about???? Could an accident have happened with somenoe trying to drive him while he was gone?
My mini had an accident in a cart once and he took 6 months off before he'd accept me hooking him back up.

Amanda


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## hillbillyin (Jul 26, 2008)

Someone living close to me has a couple of lod Amish buggies they are trying to sell----they may be cheap enough to use for your situation. I live close to Butler, IN. How far are you from there?


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## minihorse927 (Aug 11, 2008)

I have longed miniatures with a cart on before. In always did it after we got them ground driving good and we had ground drove with a cart on them for a few days, it is a good way to get them use to the weight of the cart at a trot before you jump on the cart. I have dealt with these kind of miniature before that would either run away or they would lay down once the cart is one them. I always would find a way to get the cart on the horse, even if it was just enough that is he would freak out it would come off and we would tie them up with my one mare who doesn't care about anything. We have used the idea of making shafts out of trees and 2x4's, it works great also. If the pony bolts I would make the shafts with the trees because it is an inexpensive way to have something that looks just like cart shafts on them, and if they gert tore up it is no big deal. on these once he is use to wearing the tree shafts, then you can add sand bags for weight to represent the cart/person riding behind him. I had a mare once who did this and it all came down to the horse was terrified of what was behind her because she could not see it and she must have thought it would eat her or something. Can you get two ro three people to help you? if you can get two people to hold the horse while someone else tries to hook up the cart. If the horse freaks, then givehim a second to calm down a try it again. I think since he has gotten away with it for this long now, he knows that everyone will give up if he runs! Then there he is again not having to so the hard work. I may be wrong though because I do not know the horse personally.


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## Nine (May 25, 2008)

*The man I learned to drive from, would hitch his horses to something very, very heavy, that they could NOT run with. Pull, yes, but not run away with. Perhaps that would help you. Don't let him feel the weight of the shafts until he's hitched to the cart and attach something heavy, like a large log or a telephone pole, to the cart. That way he can't run, and will have to deal with it.*
*Nine*


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

.Delete. said:


> Stud chain, lip chain, twich. I have tried it all, he still bolts. He has done everything but had a cart literally on him. We have pulled it behind him and blahblahblah. He has blinders, no blinders, ect.


 
Why would you force him with a stud chain, lip chain, twitch? If he is frightened of the shafts, work him thorough it with patience, not with force through a stud chain, twitch, ect. :???:


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## WildFeathers (Sep 2, 2007)

Curly_Horse_CMT said:


> Why would you force him with a stud chain, lip chain, twitch? If he is frightened of the shafts, work him thorough it with patience, not with force through a stud chain, twitch, ect. :???:


The stud chain etc. is probably not used in an attempt to force the horse through a scary situation, but rather to try to prevent the _misbehavior_ (bolting) that he's gotten in the habit of.


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## xilikeggs0 (Sep 14, 2008)

If you're that determined, you could try sending him to the Amish for a month or so. They can do amazing things with horses.

I've seen a horse go from literally laying down on the shafts because he didn't want to work to being a perfect carriage horse after spending 6 weeks with the Amish. I think it's because they work them so hard (12-14 hours a day pulling a plow) that when the horse comes home, they're just happy to have a break and get to relax that they'll do anything you want as long as they don't get sent back there.


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## Deblyne (Feb 13, 2009)

Hi, this is just my 2 bobs worth, one is he isn't going to go in harness and be safe. You have to know when a horse won't be good/safe in harness and he is not a harness horse. Good horsemen know when they meet a animal that is not going to make it in a field, he may be great at something else. Being mean and rough does not make a confident horse at anything, there's alway's a fear factor. 
I have had about 7 ponies in harness and no problems/ well ones that were sorted out. Have also evented for about 10 or more years before that.
Also I have had one like yours I perservered for 12 months, he would drag anything behind him, while I was driving him on ground, but he couldn't not handle shafts been put on him or buggy behind him, would bolt over everyone and anything. Did go on to be a good riding horse.
Thing is he would never be safe or even reasonable, to drive. So I went on to do more driving and more ponies in harness that enjoyed being driven. And he went on to a life that suited him better.
You do meet somethings in life that can't be changed, recognise it and get on with what you do best, and enjoy.

Cheers
Debbie.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

How's he doing? 
My thought, if you're still having a problem is has he really been able to look at the shafts or have you just been sticking them on him? He might just need time to look at them...


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