# Need opinions from people who use Clinton Anderson's methods for training!



## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I do not flex my horses when I get on. But, what I do do if they are nervous, on the ground or under saddle is I work them. I do patterns with them, I side step, I back them. 

Horses move to think. If they can't move, they can't think. And if they can't think, then they become reactive and hence, bolt, spook, rear, or whatever. 

I would do a lot of ground work with him before even getting on, so that before I even think about it, they are calm and responsive to my cues and what I want them to do. 

If I were on a horse that bolted, I'd spin them in a circle. I would start large, and then slowly shrink the circle. I would go one way, and then the other. I would THEN work on the flexing, and in turn, on their lightness in giving me their head. Eventually, they would give their head with just a pinky amount of pressure.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't do CA, but I think your questioning yourself sounds reasonable. 
Make sure that when you desensitize him to things, that he will also accept these things over and around him WHILE MOVING. Some horses can stand all kinds of stuff as long as they kind of stuff it down and hold it in and stand still, but once they start moving their feet, which would be their natural reaction to dealing with stimulus that is uncomfortable, the dam bursts and they have to GO!


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

Deschutes: He is really great at flexing and giving to the pressure. He does it with complete lightness. Do you think that because he is running away when I try and get on (he's scared, obviously), is that his way of saying he's not ready and needs more desensitizing or that I should keep trying?

Also what are some exercises to make him not scared of the mounting block? Today I stood on it and just asked him to step forward so he was stand next to me. When he did I really praised him and made it a good experience for him. Plus he got to rest at the same time. I stomped around on the mounting block a little and he did get nervous and move at first, but then I just put him right back and eventually he did stand still and then I quit.


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Make sure that when you desensitize him to things, that he will also accept these things over and around him WHILE MOVING. Some horses can stand all kinds of stuff as long as they kind of stuff it down and hold it in and stand still, but once they start moving their feet, which would be their natural reaction to dealing with stimulus that is uncomfortable, the dam bursts and they have to GO!


I think this is great and will definitely do this, but first think I should get him to stand still to accept it and then moving to accept it. I think I have a lot of work ahead of me. What's the point in which you would stop desensitizing and praise the horse while moving? I am assuming when he's not galloping madly, lol, and slows down the a respectable speed and relaxes.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Well. I deal with a flighty horse who runs INTO me, due to her responsive nature, rather than her thinking nature. It's often when I let her move that she realizes: "Oh. This thing isn't coming after me, and I need to back up, and I need to side step and I need to do a bunch of things" 

I'd probably start slow. I'd get on his back, and just sit there, and relax. Maybe even do some stretching, rotating excercises for my body while he's becoming comfortable with my weight. I would ensure that before anything, that -I- was relaxed. If he is relaxed, and I can feel it, then I would praise, pat, and ask for a walk on. 

If he becomes dancy, I'd just let him do the dancing like he wasn't even doing it. To me, the dancing is better improvement than the bolting. : p 

As for the mounting block... do you let your horses investigate things? Tana likes to act 'scared' around our mounting blocks when they're just sitting near the tack shed, but doesn't make a fuss when it's tapped, moved, wiggled in a 'scary' manner. He may just be moving because he knows you're hopping on, and doesn't want you to, so he thinks it's fine to move. 

I would also not stop once he stands still. If you intend to get on while using the block, then get on. Follow through with your intentions. 

Are you able to get on without a mounting block?

Also, you can kind of feel a horse relax and it shows when their head is brought down.


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

Des: When his owner first started taking lessons with me, I would hold the horse for her to get on and he was okay. Probably because I was constantly reassuring him. I do not have anyone hold him for me mainly because I don't have anyone that I trust to. The owners are far too inexperienced to hold a horse that might try and run. The problem is not with once a rider is on, but the getting on. Today I was almost on and he took off. I did not even have a chance to sit on him.

Also, I do not get on him from the ground because I ride dressage, however, an option may be to throw a western saddle on him so it's a bit safer. That way I could hop on the ground and test him to see what he's going to do. 

Yay or nay?

What do you mean by investigating? Allow him to sniff it, check it out sort of thing? I have not done that, but I could. Would it help to just maybe sit on it and give him a treat or two?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think that in desensitizing your goal is the the horse accept the object as not threatening and so should be able to either stand OR move , as you ask them , whether the stimulus is there or not.

So, while you are desensitizing, you would be looking for the horse's attitude to this thing. If he's standing still, but still seems worried, then he is stuffing down some anxiety, so best maybe to have him move a bit. Then work with him both moving and standing and watch to see how he "feels" about it. Once he can move forward , as you ask, even with the scary thing (like a balloon or a sweater) bumping on his hip and/or saddle, and even coming over his back into his off eye, then you might try asking him to stand with the stiumuls.


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I think that in desensitizing your goal is the the horse accept the object as not threatening and so should be able to either stand OR move , as you ask them , whether the stimulus is there or not.
> 
> So, while you are desensitizing, you would be looking for the horse's attitude to this thing. If he's standing still, but still seems worried, then he is stuffing down some anxiety, so best maybe to have him move a bit. Then work with him both moving and standing and watch to see how he "feels" about it. Once he can move forward , as you ask, even with the scary thing (like a balloon or a sweater) bumping on his hip and/or saddle, and even coming over his back into his off eye, then you might try asking him to stand with the stiumuls.


I like this, but CA is really training on getting the horse to listen to your body language. In desensitizing, I was completely relax my body language and act like no big deal because I want the horse to understand that that body language means stand still and ignore it. I think it would be confusing to the horse to ask him to move forward at this point. 

In desensitizing this way, you are teaching the horse not to run away from things that scare him.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I use a mounting block for every horse regardless of height. I bring the block to them before they are even tacked up and show it to them, let them sniff it, lick it, lip it whatever they want to familiarize themselves with it. At first there is no wrong answer, they just need to get used to the scarey plastic steps on both sides. I hold the lead rope and let them retreat to the end of the rope and then I get them to start approaching the block. If it's only 1 or 2 steps closer to the block, that's fine, they can stand there til they relax. Then another step or 2 toward the block. All the while I'm making noise by stomping on the block, picking it up and setting it down, slapping it, whatever. If it takes several sessions before they totally ignore the block as a been there done that think, that's fine. I also like to put a treat on the steps and let them walk up to the steps and take the treat. Seems to make them accept the block really quickly. 

Once they'll stand next to the block with me coming up and down, stomping my feet, shoving it around on the ground next to them, pushing it under their belly to the other side and they'll totally not be bothered by it, then I bring it close to their side and lean over the saddle from it. I put weight on my arms and lean over until I can fully belly over and they don't get antsy or upset and don't walk off with me bellied over them. If they start to move, I just say whoa and slide down their side and pull them to a stop with either the lead rope or rein and take them back to the block. Again, just repetition, no wrong answers and I do everything from both sides. Then eventually I step my foot in the stirrup and put just a little weight in the stirrup and then step off. Back and forth, back and forth until it's no big deal and they don't move. If they move, I step off and bring them back to the block. 

Since you say this horse has bolted off with you while mounting, I'd do everything in the round pen or in a corner or chute so he cannot bolt or move very far, just to begin with. Once they're calm about everything I still take them to a corner or wall to mount so they can't move off very far while they're learning. I also will pull their head around to me as I mount, so they only can move in a circle. The whole goal is to get them to accept me mounting them from a block, a tailgate, trailer running boards, rock, picnic table, whatever I can find, and not walk off til I ask them to. 

My mare is well over 16 hh and I'm only 5'3" in my boots, and at 54 I'm not as flexible as I once was, so I HAVE to have them trained to stand next to something or down in a ditch for me to mount. I just keep working on it and even once I have them doing really well at letting me mount from strange things, I still look for things when we're out on trail and I practice at least once per ride so they never think it's ok to take off without me in the saddle and giving them the cue.

***I don't specifically use CA's methods or Parelli's or Lyon's but I use a little mix of all of them, whatever seems to work in that instant with that horse. Staying relaxed and communicating that things are no big deal with my body language is a major tool in the tool box.****


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I, too , need a mounting block. Just do.


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> ***I don't specifically use CA's methods or Parelli's or Lyon's but I use a little mix of all of them, whatever seems to work in that instant with that horse. Staying relaxed and communicating that things are no big deal with my body language is a major tool in the tool box.****


Absolutely, agree!! :wink:


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

If you are going to bend his neck when you get on, you need to do it toward you, so if he does go to move, his hip is AWAY from you, rather than into, and over you. 

For teaching him to stand at the mounting block, use the sending exercises to your advantage. Do whatever ground work you are going to before wanting to work on mounting, and then take him to where your block is: I would set it fairly close to a fence, so you can 'squeeze' him between it and the block, via sending exercises. Do that over and over til he is relaxed, then start asking him to stop next to the block...at first that is all you will do; have him stop for a second near it, give him a pat, before sending him off again. (make sure to stop him near the block on both sides, so you train both sides of his brain). When he is comfortable doing that, start asking him to stand there for a little longer, while rubbing him all over; at this point, start stepping up onto the block when you stop him. Send him off again. When he is comfortable with that phase, start having him stand next to the block while you flap the stirrups, pull on stirrups, tap on saddle, etc. Send him away again. Now when he comes to a halt next to the block, do your flapping, slapping of saddle, etc, and then put some weight into stirrup before sending him away again. And so on and so forth, until he is calm and relaxed with whatever you are doing near or on the mounting block, including getting on and off. Approach/retreat, sending, etc... The horse could catch on in a matter of 15 minutes of doing this, or he may need several sessions to get totally comfortable with the process...take it at the pace you feel he needs, in order to 'get it' fully.


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## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

I also, follow SOME things about CA, but like so many others have stated... it's all about the horse. Some methods do not work with the horse, while some work completely. There is no puzzle piece that fits with the other puzzle piece perfectly, so you kind of have to mold it in to the original puzzle piece to make it work, if that makes any sense. 

If a horse moves away from the stimulus, I don't necessarily believe that it teaches them to 'run away.' Like I stated before... horses move to think. The more they move, the more they think, and the more they think, the better they calm down. With Tana, I'm working on getting her to calm down quicker than a half hour simply because I work with her constantly till she is calm in the arena. 

It's all about press and release. You give pressure, but the moment they show signs of relaxing, you take it away, and give praise. If the horse licks their lips, or sighs, it shows that they comprehend what you're doing. It may take some time for them to get it, but it's worth it. 

Just breathe deep, remain calm and relax. : 3


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I don't use a mounting block to get on, but I wanted my horses to stand quietly next to one so that my mother or my kids could use it. I never made it a big deal. I just made it the place they could rest. Now, they look for it, knowing they get a breather.


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## PluckyPony (Sep 22, 2011)

Instead of a mounting block I use a big 6' long heavy duty solid wood coffee table. It's big enough to walk around on and I can stand on it to do lunging or sending exercises. I bring the horse up beside the table to rest during exercises. Then I do the "human currycomb" method (without tack) and while they stand they get rubbed all over their body. If they should move away they are lunged around more, then allowed to rest next to the table, and I continue rubbing. When they stand for the full body rubbing you can start leaning over the horse and putting some weight on their back while you rub. Once again, if they move away - they get lunged around. If you are laying over their back and they take off, just slide off, get back on the table and continue until they stand still. When you can lay over their back, slide your legs over their rump (both legs together) so that your head is up by the withers and your legs up on top of the rump. Keep your legs together and don't try to straddle the horse yet - it's easier to slide off this way. Practice sliding on and off the horse from both sides, move around a lot, rub the horse, etc. Once they allow all this calmly without moving you can add your tack and go through the steps again. This method has worked well for me to get a horse to stand quietly for mounting.


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

Great advice everyone! Thanks! Keep it coming if you have something to say!


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## LadynDibs (Jul 29, 2011)

My mare had an issue with mounting, she wouldn't go near the mounting block, then she wouldn't stand near it and if I did manage to get on she would tank off. 
I started by giving her a small amount of feed in a bucket next to it, then walking her near it gradually getting closer, then asking her to stand for a few moments next to it then putting it beside her and doing all my grooming from it. I used to lay over her back to brush her sides etc.
I just gradually got her more and more used to it, when she was happy to have it moved all around her and me to stomp on it I started standing her beside it tacked up, as she had been used to standing and being groomed from it she didn't bother about it much and after a while would stand for quite a while with me laying over her maybe just a foot in the stirrup etc. and when I did get on maybe because she was no longer frightened of it she didn't move at all for a few seconds, when she did start to amble off it was really easy to get her to stand. It's obviously still a work in progress as she did move off without being asked but only very slowly and only a few paces.

Good luck


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I agree with the previous posts. Here's something that is more breed specific. Can you train this horse to park out next to the mounting block? When I was having training difficulties with my KMHSA gelding, my Amish farrier/trainer parked him out. (He grabbed the chestnuts on his front legs and pulled them forward one at a time, btw.) My gelding stood much better. Also, since you're dealing with a customer, use a common sales approach--promise less than you know you can deliver and give a delivery date that is further out. It's going to take some REAL time to turn this horse around, so if you care about the horse, give him the time.


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## Jamzimm101987 (Aug 11, 2011)

Here's what I have been doing with him-

I stand on the mounting block and have been teaching him to "step up" just one foot at a time. This is the one and only time I want the horse to be very close to me. If he swings his hindquarters out so he's not parellel to the block, I use agressive body language and the lunge whip (mainly just spanking the ground) to make him yield his hindquarters back over...then I repeat the process of asking him to step up. So far it has been working well. Whenever he does step up without swing his hindquarters, he just gets rubbed and praised. I make a really big deal when he does what I want..

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard" 

The message I am trying to send to this horse is that when he stands nice and relaxed at the block, he gets to rest...otherwise he has to move and work...

Opinions??


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Bless you and the owner, You guys have falling off that horse more in this post than I have in my life, 
Id say get a better saddle and hang on !. maybe a cheap horned Austrailian, would ride a bit like your dressage saddle but maybe help you ride it out a bit.
SOunds like this horse has basically learned how to get out of work by getting people to fall off.


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## Val1991 (Aug 26, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I use a mounting block for every horse regardless of height. I bring the block to them before they are even tacked up and show it to them, let them sniff it, lick it, lip it whatever they want to familiarize themselves with it. At first there is no wrong answer, they just need to get used to the scarey plastic steps on both sides. I hold the lead rope and let them retreat to the end of the rope and then I get them to start approaching the block. If it's only 1 or 2 steps closer to the block, that's fine, they can stand there til they relax. Then another step or 2 toward the block. All the while I'm making noise by stomping on the block, picking it up and setting it down, slapping it, whatever. If it takes several sessions before they totally ignore the block as a been there done that think, that's fine. I also like to put a treat on the steps and let them walk up to the steps and take the treat. Seems to make them accept the block really quickly.
> 
> Once they'll stand next to the block with me coming up and down, stomping my feet, shoving it around on the ground next to them, pushing it under their belly to the other side and they'll totally not be bothered by it, then I bring it close to their side and lean over the saddle from it. I put weight on my arms and lean over until I can fully belly over and they don't get antsy or upset and don't walk off with me bellied over them. If they start to move, I just say whoa and slide down their side and pull them to a stop with either the lead rope or rein and take them back to the block. Again, just repetition, no wrong answers and I do everything from both sides. Then eventually I step my foot in the stirrup and put just a little weight in the stirrup and then step off. Back and forth, back and forth until it's no big deal and they don't move. If they move, I step off and bring them back to the block.


totally agree. this should get your horse pretty well desensitized to it. You could even try chucking the block or rubbing him with it if it's light enough.

Now horses that move away from from blocks do so for one of two reasons. Either their scared silly, which is covered well in this thread, or they don't want to be mounted.

If you horse is just avoiding being mounted, then as clinton would say, make you idea their idea. 

Go to mount and as soon as your horse moves send them off. either back them, lunge them, whatever, but do so slightly aggressively. When your horse tires a lttle, try again. If he moves, then repeat the process. Make the mounting block a great place to be. As soon as he does stand still for you to mount, just sit there. Don't go anywhere. Let him rest for like 5 minutes. Make them think "Wow, moving is alot of work, but if I stand still and let this chick on my back, then I get a break. This mounting thing ain't so bad after all."

Then you can practice again. dismount, send him off, mount him, let him rest. Try that a few times, then do what you had originally wanted to do in the saddle. But when you go to finish, dismount, send him off, mount him, and let him rest with you on his back one more time before putting him away, just to reinforce what he learned. And do that every now and then throughout your lessons, even with your ground work. instead of desensitizing with the stick and string from the ground, do it from the saddle. and practice mounting from both sides. 

Also, as far as flexing when mounting goes, I don't. It's not because I don't agree with it, it's just that my horse flexes so far over that when I go to mount, I don't have room to bend my knee without bumping his face, which would not encourage reinforcement with my flexion. So, as the clutz that I am, I don't flex when mounting.


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