# This horse is TOO quiet.



## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

If your gut tells you there is something wrong, I would listen.  The way I imagine him from your description sounds terrible, but pictures would help. What's he like when he's turned out with other horses? Even lazy horses usually show some spunk when out with the herd, if he doesn't, I would probably push more for vet visit before working him too hard, but it's tough when it's not your horse.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

The prospective buyers thought it was quite comical--they'd wanted something quiet, but they weren't sure if they wanted something THAT quiet. The owner calls him Peppy after his grandsire....he doesn't exactly live up to his name! He doesn't _look_ all that terrible other than the belly, but the way he acts is bizarre. Assuming I can convince her to have a vet look him over, I think he would be a very interesting project for me to work with when I have time. I'll try to get some pictures next time I come over; the lighting was too poor for my cell phone camera, but I'm going back Thursday during the day.

I have no idea how he acts when he's turned out with other horses. I'll ask Peggy about it Thursday.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree with Sharpie. If your gut tells you something is not right, I'm inclined to think that you are correct. 

Very few STALLIONS are quiet. Period. I've known a couple well-behaved ones that you never heard a peep from, but none that were "dull". 

If he does seem to not want to do things, not because he doesn't know how, but because he doesn't want to move because it hurts, that horse has got to get to a vet. Do whatever you can to get your friend to see that.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm not sure if you got ON him but how was he then?

We have a similar horse (a baby.. 3 years old!) at the barn and he's so lethargic. No sparkle in his eye.. he just has no desire to live.. he just kind of stands around and maybe takes a few steps. But no curiosity, no eagerness to play, no spunk.. no nothing. It's very sad :/


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Computer has eaten my reply twice, let's try for a third.

Thanks for the replies. I did sit on him while someone led him around, and I soon had him pretty relaxed under saddle. We did establish a very good backup.

It is very weird that a _stallion _is this dull. He shows no interest when mares are led past his stall, no excited pawing when the grain is being distributed....he's just dull. My friend is going to try to convince her to have a vet look at him because this is just not normal.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have one just like that only he is very well trained and has reining points and earnings. He is also cutting/cow bred --- being a grandson of Colonel Freckles and out of a Zan Parr Bar daughter.

He lives in a 200 X 200 foot pen. Never runs or plays, never whinnies, never acts like a stallion until spring when you start leading mares past his pen. Then, he will trot to the corner and 'talk' to her unless you have him in hand. Then, he does nothing.

People come and go and never realize he is a stud. He is 11 years old and has quite a few get. 

I just sold our other stallion, also 11, to the UK. He was a double bred Driftwood horse and he was the same way. Never had him run or play and never heard him utter a peep unless we were breeding him. People in the UK will start seeing his foals next year. They are easy going and 'born broke' which is why they bought him. He or his babies just don't come with much if any resistance. 

The Colonel Freckles horse has a lot of training and a lot of speed. He has been headed and healed off of and has never been outrun by a cow. He is fast and very quick footed. He will work a cow and could have been shown (quite well I believe) in Reined Cowhorse competition. This was when my back got so bad that I could no longer ride at that level, so, he was never shown as a cowhorse. He is absolutely explosive under saddle when you ask him. He is dead quiet when you don't. He has several foals in the UK and all over the US. Everybody that has them loves them. 

I have known several other stallions that have been the same way. They are really trainable and don't waste any energy or act silly. I have also stood Arabian, Thoroughbred and racing Quarter Horse stallions to the public, but these easy-going guys really spoil you. 

The Driftwood horse was pretty lazy. Flash (the cutting bred one I still have) is anything but lazy under saddle.

I have also had several Little Peppy bred horses. I sold a grandson a few years ago that we used for breeding for 2 years before we sold him. He was also that laid back. His sire was a pretty nice cutting horse with decent winnings and a COA and his dam was a producing daughter of Freckles Playboy. He also has a 1/2 brother (stallion) out of the same mare that won over $100,000.00 barrel racing . They said he was that easy going, too, but obviously not slow or lazy to win over $100,000.00.

As for the big belly -- I assume he is getting grass hay free choice. If a horse does not 'self exercise' much, they just get hay bellies.

If this horse was trained as a cutter earlier in life, he would wake up if you worked a cow on him. If he was never trained, It would be a real chore now that he has spent most of his life doing nothing. 

Bottom line -- I don't see any reason to think anything is wrong with him. If he is stalled and NOT eating hay free choice, you might check his blood count. He could be anemic and have ulcers lowering his red blood count. A CBC tells you very quickly if that is a possibility. That's the only possibility I see.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks, Cherie! He hadn't been saddled in five years, and I was the first person to ever actually mount him. I'll try to get a video Thursday. I'll mention the blood count thing as well. He gets grain and hay only twice a day, two flakes to a feeding, and eats Stock and Stable feed.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

The belly indicates he is not processing his roughage correctly. Check teeth and ulcers.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

His teeth are very bad, I forgot to mention that. I think he has a wolf tooth bothering him as well. We tried a full-cheeck snaffle on him, but he was obviously uncomfortable, so we put him in a sidepull and he went much better. I'll definitely mention the possible problems with processing roughage, thank you!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Going over tonight, I'll bring my video camera.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> My friend is going to try to convince her to have a vet look at him because this is just not normal.


My question is it normal for him? You can't compare normal behavior between stallions, because they vary wildly. Has he always been this quiet or is this something out of the ordinary for him?

It never hurts to have things checked out, just to make sure that he is healthy though.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

The thing is, GH, that this kind of behaviour shouldn't be normal for _any_ horse. I've never seen anything like it. My gut tells me there's something wrong, and I feel like I need to have this horse looked at.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

And certainly you should go with your gut feel, but there is a huge difference between a horse who is usually switched on suddenly being super quiet, that rings alarm bells all around that the vet should be called.

The situation is different if he has always been like it, it _may_ just be normal for him.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Very true. As is, I have no idea of the horse's history or "typical" temperament. I'm hoping to work with him on the ground some more tonight to work on body control. He has a sweet enough disposition, but I swear, you could drive him out to the middle of nowhere, put a toddler on him, and he wouldn't move a muscle. If everything checks out health-wise with him, she's thinking about gelding and donating him to a theraputic riding school.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Something definitely sounds off. Get a fecal done to rule out a wormload (regular worming isn't as reliable as it used to be), get the teeth done, check for other ailments such as ulcers or anemia, check for pain, and look at his feeding regime to make sure he's getting everything he needs.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

subbing!


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Mineral deficiency? Sounds like he feels sick.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

If his teeth need doing, then poor nutrition and dental pain may definitely be contributing to his dullness. Without a healthy mouth, you cannot have a healthy horse.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Went to exercise all the started horses, as well as saddle-broke one of the more or less unhandled 4-yo's. Not-So-Peppy was more or less the same as yesterday. He stood to be tacked, didn't bat an eye at anything, and needed someone to lead us again. We did get a few trot strides out of him, for which he got lots of praise. The video's way too long right now, but here's a screenshot of him.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

He doesn't look so good. Worm belly? Hay belly?

A 9 year old stallion should kind of be round and cresty in the neck. He's thin in places he shouldn't be thin. I'd have a vet looking at him.

a pic of his grandpa at 27 years old shows better overall condition

http://cowboyshowcase.com/images/glossary/mergea.jpg


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## OwnedByAlli (Nov 8, 2011)

Wow he looks nothing like a stallion! He has no muscle, or crest and like you say, no spark... he just looks... sickly. I think a vet check is important here, gut instincts are good haha. He may be lathargic because he has no condition. Try to look into his past, ask owner for photos etc to see if he has always been this way, or if its a more recent change. 


It could be do to with worms- encysted (sp?) worms don't show up on egg counts but have the same effect on the horse, and like someone else said, wormers don't always work. if his teeth are bad get him sorted and see if any improvements start showing. 


Like others have said, vet check asap so start convincing the owner lol


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## HUSAngel (Apr 18, 2010)

Have the vet do a fecal for sand!!! (and parasites) When they have a gut full of sand it will look big, hang down, etc. Even if you don't think they are exposed to it, they CAN be. Trust me, been there, done that. If he does have sand in his belly, it's painful, and can become impacted...colic...surgery or death. They will have you put him on Equi-Aide, Sand-clear, which are both psyillium, to help clear him out. Good idea for any horse...give for 7 days each month as a routine. (I worked at an equine vet for years....  )


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## HUSAngel (Apr 18, 2010)

What is he being fed?


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

I think as MLS said he should be checked out for Ulcers. He almost seems anemic by your description which would definately account for his lack of interest etc. If he has untreated ulcers there is a possability. In any case I would have him checked out if he were mine.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

If he were mine, he would definitely be checked out by a vet. I'll talk to Peggy tomorrow and bring up some of the problem he might have. He currently gets two flakes of hay a day and a coffee can of Stock & Stable at night.

I cut the video down in length, here's the video:


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

equiniphile said:


> He currently gets two flakes of hay a day and a coffee can of Stock & Stable at night.


Only two flakes of hay?? A day?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^ Yes. If they were mine they would be getting at least double that, but alas, they're not.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Yeah, I'd have him looked at, I don't like that belly. Every horse I've ever seen like that has had sand in them.


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

Can you post pics of him please?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I don't have any pictures because I only brought my video camera, but you can watch the video of him I posted.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well he doesn't look starved on 2 flakes a day, looks nicely rounded in the rear.


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## draftgrl (Jan 8, 2011)

Wow, I'll have to agree with what everyone else is saying, get the owner convinced to get him checked out by a vet. 

Hopefully it's something somewhat simple to cure.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I just watched the video. That horse is in pain. Back or hind feet.. pelvis.. something like that. See how he holds his head up and has his ears back? Those ears are like that not because he is listening to his rider. He is listening to HIMSELF... he is preoccupied with what I believe to be pain. 

He may have sand. he may have a pinched nerve in his back. He may have testicular cancer. He may have adhesions from colic. He could even have a urinary blockage or "bean" or kidney stones!!!

He exhibits bilateral discomfort in the body, back or rear end. He looks like he is really uncomfortable and has been for quite a long time. That is why the muscles are wasted and he lacks a crest and so forth. 

Sad.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks, Elana. This horse really needs to be checked by a vet....the owner just won't believe it. I'm going back tonight, and I'm going to point-blank tell her that I'm not going to ride the poor guy before he's confirmed sound by a vet.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Poor horse is reluctant to move he has definitely something up with his hind end.He looks uncomfortable,just looking at his expression:-(. He is really lacking in his hind end development/muscling too. Hope they have a qualified vet look at him.


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## Elessar (Dec 28, 2011)

Elana said:


> I just watched the video. That horse is in pain. Back or hind feet.. pelvis.. something like that. See how he holds his head up and has his ears back? Those ears are like that not because he is listening to his rider. He is listening to HIMSELF... he is preoccupied with what I believe to be pain.
> 
> He may have sand. he may have a pinched nerve in his back. He may have testicular cancer. He may have adhesions from colic. He could even have a urinary blockage or "bean" or kidney stones!!!
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I thought. His stride is off and his is having trouble with something. His front end looks ok, but I believe all of his trouble is in his back or hind end. Ouch...


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

When you say thuis horse has not been ridden for five years and is now 9yrs old could it possibly be that he may have been broken in but never schooled so doesn't know what to do? He may just be quiet because he is confused.

Of course he will be stiff if he hasn't been ridden for so long, suppleness comes with regular quality work and schooling. Muscle also comes from work and many horses just out at grass will have minimal muscle and a grass/hay belly.

General health wise - what does he get to eat? Is he out at grass? Has he had his teeth done regularly?


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## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

Bean is a good idea. Has he ever been cleaned?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I doubt his sheath has ever been cleaned. He does not get outside, only let out in the indoor while stalls are cleaned. I really don't think it's just a matter of him being unschooled....I think he's in pain. Teeth are bad, which is why I had him in the sidepull.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

If he never goes out then I should think he is seriously depressed! Very unfit and throughly fed up with life.

Turn him out in a paddock in the sunshine!

From the video he looks totally lacking in muscle, confused and very kind.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I would love to see these guys get outside. I think they're pastured in the summer, but I honestly have no idea. She's trying to reduce her herd to seven or so, so hopefully that will be more manageable for her.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Seriously...2 flakes of hay a day? He does need double that and since it cant be a hay belly he also needs a vet. He has his winter hair so that is covering alot but he is definately thin judging by lack of hind end muscle in comparison to his blood lines. I hate to see these types of horses online because the OP has no power to actually do anything about it other than make some suggestions. Why he has been kept a stallion is a good question to start with and why has she kept him around for so long is another. Its sad. She needs to give him some groceries and sell him to someone as a nice quiet little gelding.


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

After watching the video....uhm, really kind of speechless. Frustrating situation for you I'm sure. Hard to tell what is bad conformation and what has been stunted by poor nutrition.


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## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

Equiniphile, was that you riding him in the video? That was the only good thing about that painful video, how kind you were to him. Even pregnant mares don't have bellies like that. But he seemed so sweet and almost wishing he could do what you asked. Of course he could be a whole different horse if he felt good. I can't believe anybody can look at him and think he's healthy.

I wish I could be the one to get him out of that awful situation. Thank you for trying.


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

Subbing! Hope the vet get's a look at him, he certainly looks "off" in his hind end.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Well he doesn't look starved on 2 flakes a day, looks nicely rounded in the rear.


 Did you see the same photo and video I saw? He looks underfed, malnutritrioned, wormy and sickly. He looks like a pregnant pony.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> He has a sweet enough disposition, but I swear, you could drive him out to the middle of nowhere, put a toddler on him, and he wouldn't move a muscle. If everything checks out health-wise with him, she's thinking about gelding and donating him to a theraputic riding school.


 He may be sweet now because he is malnurished and sickly. He should have a different personality though once feeling good. That does not look to be stallion quality at all.


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

A belly like that is surely a cause for concern, especially with the very little amount of hay and grain that he gets. A fat horse that is out on pasture all day usually even has a round rump. He doesn't. The only thing that's round about him is his belly. I was worming my guys every 4-6 weeks for YEARS. Recently I had a mare pass away from colic, and the vet said her stool sample was positive for parasites. She had been dewormed 2 weeks prior. So sometimes you need to take a closer look to make sure your dewormer is working. And better safe then sorry. Teeth are definitely an issue too. I'd have both done at the same time, and rule out those possibilities. 

He may seem like he's in pain in his rear because he has very little muscle tone. I am sure it's hard to work with no muscle, which also would make him lazy. 

How are his feet? I would clean his sheath up really well, and remove his bean too. That's something you can do that won't cost money for the vet. 

I don't think 7 horses is appropriate for someone who doesn't see a very obvious issue. Or even if he's "just a calm horse" there is no reason for him to have no muscle tone and bad teeth. These things are simple parts of horse ownership. 

I have a stallion, and he's a very well mannered, calm, lazy boy. He will still winny when the girls come and go out of the barn. He will still every once in a while walk with his head high and grunt at them. We've spent a lot of time teaching him his manners. A LOT. 

So if this woman can't say he's calm because she's trained him to be, or explain to you at all why he's so calm, then I'm not sure she knows, or has taken the time to figure it out. Does she not make him work? Ever? She doesn't have any stories about "when I used to work him, he would..." 

How is he around mares? Interested?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I agree with everyone else. That horse is not right to begin with, especially for a stallion. Two flakes is not enough food for any full sized horse I have ever met. There is something wrong that may or may not just be diet and worming and teeth. If I had power over him, he'd get turned out, fed at least twice that, floated, wormed, and vet checked... and not ridden or worked until all of the above were taken care of. (and he'd be gelded too, but that's beside the point  )

Get him healthy and he may or may not be a calm horse... no way to tell looking at him now.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

This makes me sad to read - I can't imagine how sad it must be to see and be unable to do anything to actually change it aside from trying to prevail upon his owner to do what is necessary. I do hope you are able to get her to see what he needs and that she will follow through, for this poor horse's sake.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

churumbeque said:


> Did you see the same photo and video I saw? He looks underfed, malnutritrioned, wormy and sickly. He looks like a pregnant pony.


Yup I'm looking at this pic, which actually isn't a great one to judge anything










But I still don't see malnourished, but would like a clear pic of him well lit and without his tack on, then maybe we could make a proper judgement of him.

I agree about the big belly, I'm not saying that all is well, I just find it strange sometimes that everyone jumps on a third party horse, but one in a worse state than this posted by the owner is classed as OK


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Yup I'm looking at this pic, which actually isn't a great one to judge anything
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Just surprised you thought he looked nicely rounded in the rear from this photo.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

I dont think anyone is stating anything that isnt very obvious...he has no hind muscle, a distended belly, and is being fed only 2 flakes of hay daily with a small amount of grain according to the OP. He very likely has a distended belly because he has worms, or isnt getting enough dry matter daily to maintain good digestion, and/or because as the OP already stated, he has very bad teeth which only magnify's his inability to absorb nutrition. 
We can all pick apart what is being said on here but I think no matter what is said we all may have somewhat different opinions about his health. I know the OP is doing her best to see what she can do for him. I think she has a wonderful heart. 
He will become a different horse if she is succesful in getting a vet out to check him and he is put on a balanced diet. 
Unfortunately it will be a hard sell if the owner has been feeding him this way for some time. Its a case of not seeing the forest for the trees.....


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## HUSAngel (Apr 18, 2010)

Nicely rounded in the rear????? I think not. That horse is poor. Period. Big belly, no substance anywhere else....absolutely not well. I'm betting he's got a belly full of sand. 2 flakes a day isn't enough, and what kind of hay?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Update from today. Let me know if I missed any questions.

Lindsay and I talked to the owner, trying to hint that the horse definitely needed a vet out, but she is absolutely adamant: "The horse is fine, I've had him since he was 6 months old and he's always been calm, he only has a distended belly because the weather was too bad this year to let them out to pasture." (My horses were all out daily this summer and fall, we had a pretty nice summer....) Apparently this horse was cast a few years ago and found _sleeping_ up against the wall. He would not help the four people who were trying to get him on his feet. She thinks his personality is comical, not a cause for concern.

I recommended my equine dentist to her and Lindsay is going to drive an hour to go pick him up (he's Amish and doesn't drive) so she can make sure it gets done. The other thing is that his teeth are BLACK from *eating his manure* all the time. Apparently this is what he does in his spare time.

I'll mention the sheath cleaning to Lindsay. We might have to wait until spring; I don't believe she has running hot water in the barn.

Yes, that was me riding in the video....I feel so bad for the poor guy, and so absolutely helpless. If I had the space, means, and time to take him on, he'd be in my barn (or rather, in my pasture). His prospective buyer came again today. It would be fantastic if she could take him and get him the medical attention he needs. The good news is that her one stallion Cash and another colt are leaving tomorrow. She's gone from 20 horses to 14, and now to 12. She's still dead-set on keeping the "babies", who are four years old and have had very little human interaction. Her stallions (three of them including Not-So-Peppy) are all unbroke and unproven.

The best thing would be for someone to take Peppy and give him what he needs. Unfortunately, I can't be that person, but I'm hoping we find that person.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

A lot of malnourished horses eat their manure. Kind of gross, but common... probably helps keep something in their stomach and helps reduce ulcers as well as them trying to get the nutrition they need. 

You can clean without running hot water. I did my boy with a bucket of hot water from the house and Excalibur. It's tough to get them quite as clean as when you do have a hose, but it does a decent job, at least good enough to get by till spring or summer. It sounds like downsizing is going well and is in everyone's best interests. I am glad you are advocating for this guy... it's tough when owners don't see a problem though. Like pounding your head against a wall.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

SarahAnn said:


> A belly like that is surely a cause for concern, especially with the very little amount of hay and grain that he gets. A fat horse that is out on pasture all day usually even has a round rump. He doesn't. The only thing that's round about him is his belly. I was worming my guys every 4-6 weeks for YEARS. Recently I had a mare pass away from colic, and the vet said her stool sample was positive for parasites. She had been dewormed 2 weeks prior. So sometimes you need to take a closer look to make sure your dewormer is working. And better safe then sorry. Teeth are definitely an issue too. I'd have both done at the same time, and rule out those possibilities.
> 
> He may seem like he's in pain in his rear because he has very little muscle tone. I am sure it's hard to work with no muscle, which also would make him lazy.
> 
> ...


Responses in bold.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I didn't watch the video, but I read your description and looked at the picture- it all SCREAMS unhealthy to me. He looks extremely unhappy. I think he needs a vet check QUICK- At first I was a bit skeptical, thinking he MAY just be super calm, but that picture just looks way too uncomfortable to me. I would get blood work done, and does he have a salt block/mineral block? Try checking his iron- that may be part of the lethargy. I think the cause are his teeth, though. He doesn't look like a horse that's getting everything he needs from his food...


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

No salt/mineral block. I can't control his health situation, but I'll pass along the advice.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Yikes. That belly is rough, and just _looks_ painful.

Nothing left for me to say that hasn't already been said, just wishing you luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Eating his own manure is because he is hungry - lacking in fibre - this horse is an SPCA case - take photos and get them to the relevent authorities. He is sick.

What do her other horses look like? How do they behave? Photos?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Her other horses are all well-cared for and happy. This is the only one that has any problems. I also checked on the hay situation, and he's fed a flake three times a day instead of two. Still not great, but the owner still believes he's fat.


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## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

Tnavas said:


> Eating his own manure is because he is hungry - lacking in fibre - this horse is an SPCA case - take photos and get them to the relevent authorities. He is sick.
> 
> What do her other horses look like? How do they behave? Photos?



Now that is taking things a bit far. He could be eating his own manure out of boredom also. Get him some sunshine, get him some exercise, clean the sheath and get his teeth done. Calling the authorities would be an enormous waste of time.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I just read that he has no salt or mineral block. Oh boy.. that may be the reason for eating manure and looking like he does (if the lack of food doesn't add in there). I bet if you put a trace mineral salt block in there that horse might just go bonkers for it! Very important and did not mention it before.. does he have a constant supply of fresh CLEAN water available to him? Really important. 

Manure eating can be from lack of minerals, lack of food and just plain boredom. Stallions usually need to keep moving... and will do things like coprophagia or self mutilation and other displacement behaviors if the are stalled 24/7 and never worked and so forth. 

This horse is not the best for conformation and he is not well. When I read about stables like this one.. too many horses.. insufficient resources.. a few people working there who care I think to myself that horse slaughter could be a kindness. 

I look at this horse and wonder, even if he were vetted and made better, who is going to want him? Who is going to put money into him? Even if sold it is very likely he will go into another situation like he is in.. or worse. 

We all try but the bottom line is the economy is not good and money is tight and horses are a luxury. There are more horses like this one out there and not enough caring owners to take them.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Kimmylikestojump said:


> Now that is taking things a bit far. He could be eating his own manure out of boredom also.* Get him some sunshine, get him some exercise, clean the sheath and get his teeth done*. Calling the authorities would be an enormous waste of time.


All well and fine, but the OP is in no position to do any of those things because this is not a horse in their care and control. Sure, she can try to prevail upon the owner to do the appropriate things, but that is the same person who has allowed the horse to come into this condition in the first place. If the OP is unable to prevail upon the owner to do the right thing, then a call would be preferable to allowing the horse to continue living in this condition, wouldn't you think?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Elana said:


> I just read that he has no salt or mineral block. Oh boy.. that may be the reason for eating manure and looking like he does (if the lack of food doesn't add in there). I bet if you put a trace mineral salt block in there that horse might just go bonkers for it! Very important and did not mention it before.. does he have a constant supply of fresh CLEAN water available to him? Really important.
> 
> *I'm going to buy him a mineral block myself the next time I go to the feed store. I think that'll give him something to do. He does have fresh, clean water available at all times.*
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, this guy isn't the most marketable. His conformation is poor and he's dead quiet on top of the obvious health issues. There's not much of a market for that.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I applaud you for wanting to help this poor creature. I think you could do him a world of good if it were not for his owner.
He doesn't look lame, he looks like he doesn't know how to walk a straight line & he has no muscles to do it with either-much like a person after being bed ridden a long time.
Is there a possibility that the owner (it kills me to use that word) will at least allow him to spend time in that round pen with an outside door open to get some fresh air & sun?


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## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

themacpack said:


> All well and fine, but the OP is in no position to do any of those things because this is not a horse in their care and control. Sure, she can try to prevail upon the owner to do the appropriate things, but that is the same person who has allowed the horse to come into this condition in the first place. If the OP is unable to prevail upon the owner to do the right thing, then a call would be preferable to allowing the horse to continue living in this condition, wouldn't you think?



I think, in the bigger picture of all the abuse and neglect in the horse world, this fella could use some TLC but a call to the AC would be a waste of their time. Is he in imminent danger? Is he starving to death? Is he being horrifically abused? It sounds as if his owner is in over her head. If that is a criminal offense, better lock up half this board.


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

I know this is a little off topic, but please trim his tail it is beautiful, but he keeps stepping on it when he backs and it looks like he ri
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

Sorry..ripped it out. Just noticed, I would suggest trimming it so that is is even with ground or 2 inches off the ground
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

He certainly looks sore in his hind end to my eyes. 
I know he is not your horse OP, but could you buy him a Christmas pressie of a mineral block and put it in his stall? They are cheap enough. 
Can you put some pressure on his hind end and see if he reacts to pain anywhere?


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

Good for you for helping! 
I am in a similar situation and its frustrating not being able to care for the animal yourself or get the owner to comply. 

I wouldn't have anything new to ad other than whats been stated, de-worming, vet check, teeth check (stalled horses always have bad teeth), sand clear, pro-biodics, better quality hay and feed. None of which you can do anything about, only suggest to the owner of the horse. Not sure that its pain I see in the video. I would suggest he just looks like he could have a better feed schedule, needs muscle and is one of those goofy looking horses who always seem to be a little quieter and much less athletic by nature. You combine that with standing in a stall, I am sure x-rays of his legs would show that his bone is nearly see threw. In to top it off general depression from living indoors for an extended period of time for any reason, yupp he is acting exactly how he should. Poor fellow.


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

Is there any way he could be turned out? Even for just an hour a day with grass and freedom of movement. Fresh air, sunshine and room to move would do him wonders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

paint_girl08 said:


> I know this is a little off topic, but please trim his tail it is beautiful, but he keeps stepping on it when he backs and it looks like he ri
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Sure, I'll trim it tomorrow. I never noticed he was stepping on it, actually :lol:.



natisha said:


> I applaud you for wanting to help this poor creature. I think you could do him a world of good if it were not for his owner.
> He doesn't look lame, he looks like he doesn't know how to walk a straight line & he has no muscles to do it with either-much like a person after being bed ridden a long time.
> Is there a possibility that the owner (it kills me to use that word) will at least allow him to spend time in that round pen with an outside door open to get some fresh air & sun?


She definitely favors her Thoroughbred mare, who spends every night in the round pen. I'll suggest putting Peps in there some nights and see if we can open the door for some air.



AlexS said:


> He certainly looks sore in his hind end to my eyes.
> I know he is not your horse OP, but could you buy him a Christmas pressie of a mineral block and put it in his stall? They are cheap enough.
> Can you put some pressure on his hind end and see if he reacts to pain anywhere?


 Like I stated before, I'll definitely pick one up next time I'm at the feed store. He does not react to pain in his hind end, but *his gut is hard as a rock.*



paint_girl08 said:


> Is there any way he could be turned out? Even for just an hour a day with grass and freedom of movement. Fresh air, sunshine and room to move would do him wonders.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 No way that I'm aware of. One of my friend's dad is going to help fix her pasture fence so they can get some turnout eventually. I can try to take him out for some walks and time outside tomorrow.


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

No problem, my horses tails get really long and I have to remember to trim them, just noticed it during the video 
That would be good if you could walk him around outside and let him hand graze for awhile. What about if you put him in the round pen with a door open while cleaning stalls? Or something it wouldn't even have to be all night. Just some daily movement with your riding him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

The problem is, we go over to clean her stalls with her a few times a week, and each horse is put in the round pen for the time it takes to clean his stall. As he's a stallion, we can't put him in with the others while stalls are done.


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

Oh I got ya, well idk maybe you could tell her and she can try to find a way to get him so more exercise 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

He looks really uncomfortable when moving, even standing. When he walked by the person holding the camera, he never even flicked his ears forward. Something is wrong, and that gut is horrible.
Pretty sad that the owner wants to sell the horse, but won't put any money into him. If I was a prospective buyer, I would insist on a vet check, and I imagine he will not pass... She needs to rethink her attitude and get him a vet check for future buyers.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> He looks really uncomfortable when moving, even standing. When he walked by the person holding the camera, he never even flicked his ears forward. Something is wrong, and that gut is horrible.
> Pretty sad that the owner wants to sell the horse, but won't put any money into him. If I was a prospective buyer, I would insist on a vet check, and I imagine he will not pass... She needs to rethink her attitude and get him a vet check for future buyers.


 She's pretty much looking to give them away to good homes. She has a trainer lined up for the babies that will come every Saturday. For payment, she wants one of the 4yo's, so that will be one more gone.

Most of these horses are so skittish, unsure, and food aggressive. It's very sad. If you know anyone in Ohio looking to take on a young registered project, let me know.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I'd also like to just throw in there that he has a very nice, shiny, healthy tail and coat. He's getting the minimum, although not near what he should. I've seen MUCH worse. Ugh, I wish this COULD be considered the worst...

But reporting him to the authorities is a bit much, lol- that's for horses with no saving grace, and I with the OP on the case he'll be fine- she knows what she's doing.
I've got to agree with you though, equiniphile, he would be much better off as a gelding doing therapeutic work- He looks like he's in pain, so the fact that he's not acting up at all and just doing what he needs to without fuss shows it's part his personality. And I didn't want to say anything before because I didn't want to offend, lol, I know how touchy this subject can be, but I just don't see him as going anywhere as a stud. He's just not right... 

Alright, now that I've got my two-cents in, lol...


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

The owner knows he needs to be gelded, which is a step in the right direction. The vets she's been in touch with have suggested to wait until spring before gelding him, though.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Now is the perfect time to geld, no flies to bother the open incision. Plus that would give you a reason to have to walk him around for exercise.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> Now is the perfect time to geld, no flies to bother the open incision. Plus that would give you a reason to have to walk him around for exercise.



Unless it is just to darn cold in Ohio, I agree with Wyoming, don't wait until fly season to geld


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

The flies don't come around here until late spring/early summer. Last year I didn't need fly spray until late May. She talked to the vet, and he said he would do it now but he would rather wait until Spring, when it's not as cold.


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

Subbing, want to know what happens to him.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

equiniphile said:


> The flies don't come around here until late spring/early summer. Last year I didn't need fly spray until late May. She talked to the vet, and he said he would do it now but he would rather wait until Spring, when it's not as cold.


Why? Is the vet concerned about getting his hands cold? :roll:

Or is it because the health of the horse is in question -- which would make more sense to me, but maybe the owner doesn't want to hear that part of the vet's response.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I too am seeing hind soreness. I'm wondering about his pelvis as he seems to drop on one side as he walks. I think he should be left alone, no riding, no lunging until the vet has seen him. I'm seeing discomfort in his expression. His rump is shaped like that of the American saddlebred, not the low hips so desirable on qhs. He also appears curby hocked but that could be because of his short striding on the right hind.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Northern, I'm not sure. All she told me was that the vet wanted to wait until Spring.

Saddlebag, we've stopped working him. I don't think it's in his best interest right now. I'd like to get him outside walking when I go over tomorrow, but we'll see.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> She's pretty much looking to give them away to good homes. She has a trainer lined up for the babies that will come every Saturday. For payment, she wants one of the 4yo's, so that will be one more gone.
> 
> Most of these horses are so skittish, unsure, and food aggressive. It's very sad. If you know anyone in Ohio looking to take on a young registered project, let me know.


 I just have a hard time believing all of her other horses are in good condition but she is giving them away and they have emotional issues also.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Its almost laughable that a vet would say wait until spring to geld. Let me see....its too cold...sooooo..lets wait for fly season??? I think your BO friend is telling a BIG lie. She doesnt want to spend the money. 
Equiniphi...you are made of good stuff to hang around and watch this bad example of a horse owner. I sure wouldnt be able to do it, I would have been long gone to avoid a huge confrontation.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I have to ask. Has the vet actually SEEN this horse or is the owner only in contact by phone? I don't know of any self-respecting vet that would look at this horse's condition and not say something to the owner above and beyond, "Spring is the better time to geld." The vet would have to be blind not to see what people, as amateurs (unless someone posting here is a licensed practicing vet  ) are seeing.

I never realized there WAS a particular time of year to geld.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

_If_ a vet was even consulted, maybe he doesn't think gelding then standing in a stall is in the horse's best interest, plus the horse doesn't look healthy enough for any surgery. Maybe the BO told him she was making the horse 'a wonderful paradise turnout' in Spring. Or maybe the BO is so set in her ways that no one is going to tell her anything.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Annnie31 said:


> Its almost laughable that a vet would say wait until spring to geld. Let me see....its too cold...sooooo..lets wait for fly season??? I think your BO friend is telling a BIG lie. She doesnt want to spend the money.
> Equiniphi...you are made of good stuff to hang around and watch this bad example of a horse owner. I sure wouldnt be able to do it, I would have been long gone to avoid a huge confrontation.


I have to agree here.

The only time I have heard a vet suggesting to hold off a gelding is due to bugs. Even so, if gelding is necessary - it's done and as owners we deal with the situation for the health and well being of the horse.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> I just have a hard time believing all of her other horses are in good condition but she is giving them away and they have emotional issues also.


Actually, the stallion is the only one with a weight problem. The others are in good weight. They are almost all somewhat skittish and wary of people, but the only horse that is deliberately mean (the owner struggles to halter her in her stall, she swings her butt to you and pins her ears) has a home with the trainer that's coming to work with the babies.


Annnie31 said:


> Its almost laughable that a vet would say wait until spring to geld. Let me see....its too cold...sooooo..lets wait for fly season??? I think your BO friend is telling a BIG lie. She doesnt want to spend the money.


I think you're right about this. I've done some research, and no vet in his right mind would say to wait until fly season to geld.


tlkng1 said:


> I have to ask. Has the vet actually SEEN this horse or is the owner only in contact by phone? I don't know of any self-respecting vet that would look at this horse's condition and not say something to the owner above and beyond, "Spring is the better time to geld." The vet would have to be blind not to see what people, as amateurs (unless someone posting here is a licensed practicing vet  ) are seeing.


The vet has not seen this horse since he was purchased as a 6 m/o. He apparently told her over the phone to wait until spring, but he has not seen his condition.


natisha said:


> _If_ a vet was even consulted, maybe he doesn't think gelding then standing in a stall is in the horse's best interest, plus the horse doesn't look healthy enough for any surgery. Maybe the BO told him she was making the horse 'a wonderful paradise turnout' in Spring.


Very valid point, I didn't think about this. I think this is what is going on.


mls said:


> Even so, if gelding is necessary - it's done and as owners we deal with the situation for the health and well being of the horse.


Couldn't agree more.

For what it's worth, I'll try to take some pictures of him standing when I go over tonight.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I think the owner of this horse is an idiot. She wants to sell the ones she wants to but doesn't want to put a penny of unnecessary care into them to lose some of her "profits". 
If a vet has not seen this stallion since it was 6 months old, that tells me its teeth have never been floated(bet the owner says a horse doesn't need its teeth floated since "wild horses" never did) and because it looks like ****, the owner really doesn't want a vet to see him. Does she actually think someone is going to BUY this horse looking as he does with no recent health certificate or vet check? She needs to wake up and join the real world. Too bad the horse is suffering because of its ignorant owner.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> I think the owner of this horse is an idiot. She wants to sell the ones she wants to but doesn't want to put a penny of unnecessary care into them to lose some of her "profits".
> If a vet has not seen this stallion since it was 6 months old, that tells me its teeth have never been floated(bet the owner says a horse doesn't need its teeth floated since "wild horses" never did) and because it looks like ****, the owner really doesn't want a vet to see him. Does she actually think someone is going to BUY this horse looking as he does with no recent health certificate or vet check? She needs to wake up and join the real world. *Too bad the horse is suffering because of its ignorant owner*.


ITA - especially with the bolded :-( I really don't know that I would be able to continue a friendship with someone who felt this was acceptable or appropriate treatment of an animal, that - to me - speaks volumes about the person.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

The above posts are the reason why I suggested that the SPCA be contacted. This person is an idiot and the horse is suffering - it looks terrible, it's life style is not good either. 

If I coould not get the owner to agree to do something about this horse then I wouold be straight onto the authorities. She may just need a fright by them appearing to get her to accept that the horse is not right. I too would not be wanting to continue a friendship with this women.

Please OP if you cannot change his life then get outside help to do so.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I don't think it's time for authorities to be involved yet. My hope is that this horse will be taken by the woman who's interested in him and she will give him a great life. If not, I honestly have no idea what to do. As a kid, I don't have much control over the situation and can only change things by trying to influence the owner in the hopes that she does the right thing. I do _not_ want to lose my temper with her, which would leave me with absolutely no way to know what's going on, but at the same time....I wonder if this is not abuse. She does not want this horse to be in pain, but her ignorance and self-denial have her believing that all is fine when, in truth, something is seriously wrong here. I've known the woman for less than a week and she just seems utterly overwhelmed. She worries about wasting energy by having the arena lights on when we're working with the horses, she worries about not having enough hay stashed for the winter, but she does not worry about the critical thing here, which is the health of this stallion.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this directly, but his hindquarters aren't at the typical angle for a QH. His croup is too level (first impression was that he has Arabian in him). 

So maybe that is an old injury or something and his back is messed up. That would explain his reluctance to move and those who say he isn't moving right behind. Maybe he did that when he was cast in his stall? 

I dunno, I'm not a vet. But the slope of his hind quarters is unlike that of any Quarter Horse I have ever seen. Very very flat.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

trailhorserider - I thought the same too - he has very Araby hindquarters - flat croup and straighter hind legs than you'd expect from a quarter horse


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

trailhorserider said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this directly, but his hindquarters aren't at the typical angle for a QH. His croup is too level (first impression was that he has Arabian in him).
> 
> So maybe that is an old injury or something and his back is messed up. That would explain his reluctance to move and those who say he isn't moving right behind. Maybe he did that when he was cast in his stall?
> 
> I dunno, I'm not a vet. But the slope of his hind quarters is unlike that of any Quarter Horse I have ever seen. Very very flat.





Tnavas said:


> trailhorserider - I thought the same too - he has very Araby hindquarters - flat croup and straighter hind legs than you'd expect from a quarter horse


 Hmm, interesting. I know he's registered and I know he's a grandson of Peppy San Badger, but maybe his other side is Arab and he's registered as a half-arab?

I don't think it's likely that he injured it when he was cast, but I'm finding it hard to believe anything she says anymore.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm not saying he IS part Arabian (his head isn't Arabian at all), but I find the shape of his hindquarters very strange for a Quarter Horse, that's all. I mean, if I cut the pictures in half, I would swear I was looking at an Arabian. 

I just have never seen a Quarter Horse built like that. I've seen stocky ones, racy ones, fat ones and skinny ones, but never one with Arabian hindquarters. 

So I thought that perhaps that could mean something. Normally the hindquarters is a Quarter Horse's most outstanding feature. Even the ones that are built like Thoroughbreds have more slope than that. Actually, other than Arabians, I'm not sure if I know another breed that has a flat croup like that. :think: That's why I thought maybe it could be tied into whatever problem he has.


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

As far as gelding having to wait until it's warmer, I had a vet tell me that once about an elective surgery on my horse. His point was that he needed to do the procedure with the horse on the ground and the cold ground made it more risky on the horse. Secondly, we needed to flush the wound with generous amounts of running water from a hose.....definitely not something you want to have to do in the winter time. This surgery was a trephination (skull surgery) to remove an impacted molar. A gelding procedure, especially in a mature stallion, necessitates lots of walking. My guess is that the vet is thinking that he'd like to stack the odds in favor of three things that are important to the success of the surgery -- good operative view for careful surgery and control of bleeding on a fully developed male, hosing for a clean post-op site, and mobility afterwards to keep the swelling down. 

Of course, if the owner has great facilities with a warm barn for the procedure, a well equipped washrack with cool - not icy - water, and were a good horsewoman, it would make a difference. But we already know she's not a good horsewoman since the vet hasn't seen this guy since he was a baby.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I honestly didn't think a horse could be that ugly. :-| He certainly looks to be the furthest thing from a purebred Quarter Horse. How tall is he? Even at a healthy weight, I don't think he'd look much "prettier".

It always makes me shake my head when people suggest animal services. Wouldn't it be a perfect world if we could just tell them "he doesn't look good!" and they'd actually do something about it? Welcome to reality, if the animal has even a scrap of moldy hay or grimy water, there is virtually nothing any animal services operation can do. In some areas (mine), they don't even need a real shelter as a requirement of care. The SPCA would laugh in your face over this case, unfortunately stupidity is not against the law.

I agree with pain - the way he cocks his head, holds his ears, and steps under his hind end signifies some extreme back/hip pain and a sweet enough horse not to do a darn thing about it. Which quite frankly, with how absolutely horribly he's put together, wouldn't surprise me at all.

Good for you trying to help him. I hope you get somewhere with it!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I honestly didn't think a horse could be that ugly. :-| He certainly looks to be the furthest thing from a purebred Quarter Horse. How tall is he? Even at a healthy weight, I don't think he'd look much "prettier".
> 
> It always makes me shake my head when people suggest animal services. Wouldn't it be a perfect world if we could just tell them "he doesn't look good!" and they'd actually do something about it? Welcome to reality, if the animal has even a scrap of moldy hay or grimy water, there is virtually nothing any animal services operation can do. In some areas (mine), they don't even need a real shelter as a requirement of care. The SPCA would laugh in your face over this case, unfortunately stupidity is not against the law.
> 
> ...


 Lol! He's definitely not the prettiest guy. I confirmed that he is, in fact, purebred QH. I definitely agree with the SPCA thing. He has access to food, water, and shelter, so to many, that's considered okay. :?

We mentioned the mineral block, and according to the owner, she tried it before and the horse ate it all at one time and "even his legs swelled up." :shock: She's going to allow us to buy the horse an ulcer guard, but she doubts it'll do anything.

Today I hand-walked him around the ring for a while, and he definitely seemed happier. His ears were pricked, his eyes held interest, and he didn't seem as awkward when we walked. He really enjoys being doted on. Poor guy--he really is very sweet and willing.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

His hind end and flat croup could be Sacral injury as a result of his being cast. It is quite possible since he walks rather splayed looking and does not appear to have any injury lower on the legs. He also may have a hip out of joint but my guess is Sacral injury as it would make the most sense.
If it might be a Sacroiliac injury it may be seen with an ultra sound. 
Somehow I feel this information while useful for the OP would not be helpful with a owner who is so unwilling to do anything. It seems hopeless.


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

equiniphile said:


> She's pretty much looking to give them away to good homes. She has a trainer lined up for the babies that will come every Saturday. For payment, she wants one of the 4yo's, so that will be one more gone.
> 
> Most of these horses are so skittish, unsure, and food aggressive. It's very sad. If you know anyone in Ohio looking to take on a young registered project, let me know.


Where at in Ohio are you located? I live in Ohio
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

You know I re ad this and it leaves me sad. Too many horses, not enuf time or money. This boy gets the brunt
of it.

Bless you Equinphile for trying.


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

I have a mare out of peppy San badger that looks nothing like this poor guy. Something has happened to make him develop funny. However, if something is broke he may just be so calm and quiet he don't show it. My mare is that way, she is so docile and quiet, never acts upset or phased. Perhaps could just be some of his temperament. Of course I do agree with you he does seem TOO quiet lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

I still think that belly is his reason for walking funny. Belly pain causes pain in his back, and with a saddle on it will be even worse as the girth cinches up the belly for even more discomfort. Until he's pain free he's not going to walk straight. This is something that's been going on for years, I would bet. I would get that sand out of there, and/or a powerpack wormer, plus the ulcergard and continue the daily mental exercise. The poor thing is probably depressed...who wouldn't be? since he's both sick and isolated.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Paint_girl, PM sent.

I think a back injury is probable, especially considering the shape of his rear, but unfortunately, the owner will never consider it.

His half-brother Cash left Thursday, and he was very well put-together. Unfortunately, he was also an unbroke stallion. These two horses are literally night and day.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I'm a little late to the party.

What an unfortunate looking little guy. Good for you taking this on and trying to help him. I can't really offer much more advice than what has already been covered except just to say keep trying. While he is a long way from looking horrible, he certainly _doesn't_ look good or healthy or pain free.

It is entirely possible for a horse to be completely ate up with worms even on a regular worming schedule if they are consistently using the same wormers or wormers with limited kill lists.

Keep us updated on this poor little guy. I hope that lady who's showing interest goes ahead and takes him in.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks, smrobs. She alternates wormers when she worms, but I don't know what strength they are. If the interested lady doesn't take him, Lindsay's considering taking him just to get him the medical attention he needs.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

***UPDATE***

Lindsay paid out of her own pocket for the vet to come out look at Peppy and another mare with a fungal problem. The vet's diagnosis is that Peppy's teeth are horrible and he needs exercise, but his odd belly is just a hay belly. We got him some probiotics and other things on the vet's request. Yesterday we walked him outside for a little while to let him graze. He was afraid to go out at first and seemed very nervous while outside, but I think he enjoyed the fresh air.

Call me crazy, but I'm already seeing a change in his belly from when we first saw him. It juts out to the sides less, his ribs are less visible, and I think the whole thing's starting to shift back to where it should be. His ears are perked and his eyes are alert when we work with him as well. I'll keep everyone updated as we work with him.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

What are they asking for this horse?

Way to go Lindsay for paying for the vet. Was the BO mad that she did that?


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Lindsay - you are a good person - thank you for paying for the vet.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

The BO was not upset; Lins told her she was going to have a vet out and the BO basically said not to leave her with a bill. I believe this guy's going for free.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just don't understand how the BO can't see that this horse needs help. What type of barn is this? Is it just a lady like collects horses but doesn't properly care for them? Is she in over her head? Do any of the horses get turned out.

I think his hind end is so bad because he's been stuck in a stall for 8 1/2 years and hasn't been dealt with. I'm sure my butt would look like that too if I was stuck in a closet for my entire life.

OP, where in Ohio are you located?


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## WalkerLady (Jul 22, 2010)

Subbing just to see what happens. Bless you both, Lindsay & Equiniphile. I hope this poor guy eventually gets the help he needs. I agree with others that no rescue is going to touch this because he's obviously being fed and that's all they're concerned with.

You know, it sounds to me like the owner is in over her head both emotionally & financially. Didn't you say her husband just left her holding the bag? Whatever is going on with him, she can't bear to hear it or see it because she has no resources to do anything about it. 

Not trying to excuse her behavior, just wondering where her head is. She doesn't sound at all like a cruel person, she just has some huge blinders on.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Ignorance and blindness is often exceedingly cruel. 

Both can be rectified with an open mind. 

I cut no slack to anyone who refuses to learn and over come either! 

I too am very glad you are doing something with this horse. Two things happen when you isolate and stall a horse as if imprisoned. One is the horse becomes very dangerous (this is the usual out come with a stud). The other is the horse becomes exceedingly depressed. Seems this poor horse is in that bad place. 

Again.. TY for at least trying to bring something into this horse's life for him to look forward to. 

Anything going to be done with his teeth???


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

WalkerLady said:


> Subbing just to see what happens. Bless you both, Lindsay & Equiniphile. I hope this poor guy eventually gets the help he needs. I agree with others that no rescue is going to touch this because he's obviously being fed and that's all they're concerned with.
> 
> You know, it sounds to me like the owner is in over her head both emotionally & financially. Didn't you say her husband just left her holding the bag? Whatever is going on with him, she can't bear to hear it or see it because she has no resources to do anything about it.
> 
> Not trying to excuse her behavior, just wondering where her head is. She doesn't sound at all like a cruel person, she just has some huge blinders on.


 She's definitely over her head. I have to give her credit; she's coping pretty well on her own and is trying to find homes for a lot of them.


Elana said:


> Anything going to be done with his teeth???


 Dentist is schedules to come out sometime soon; Lindsay and I are going to have ours done at the same time by the same guy.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Poor horse. Good 4 U stepping up.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Excellent news: A lady in Amish country took Peppy, and she found another home for Delta, a 4yo.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Very good! Thanks for the update!


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

Elana said:


> I just watched the video. That horse is in pain. Back or hind feet.. pelvis.. something like that. See how he holds his head up and has his ears back? Those ears are like that not because he is listening to his rider. He is listening to HIMSELF... he is preoccupied with what I believe to be pain.
> 
> He may have sand. he may have a pinched nerve in his back. He may have testicular cancer. He may have adhesions from colic. He could even have a urinary blockage or "bean" or kidney stones!!!
> 
> ...


 Testicular fancer in horses is very scary and dangerous we were afraid my horse had testicular cancer after he was gelded, i fcan kill them very quickly and if he does have it he will proaly have to be put down!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

She still has at least three more to find homes for. If anyone in Ohio's interested in a young, registered APHA or AQHA project, let me know.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Good to know he has found a home. Good on you for all the care you have been taking of these horses - hope the owner appreciates your efforts.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

It almost sounds like he's been drugged, but if his teeth are that bad, that could explain alot. Even that side pull will hurt him alot if he has bad teeth causing him pain. 

I would be hesitant to work with him if he is really in a lot of pain; you never know when he may go from dull to blowing up, and that blow up will be bad...I've seen it happen in horses in pain like that; owners who thought they were just 'quiet' and ignored everyone's advice to have the animal looked at because he just shouldn't have been "that" quiet, and then he goes off one day like a bomb explodes. A horse can only take so much; they have a breaking point too. So be careful, and keep trying to get him looked at, and if she refuses, then I would steer clear.

ETA...ok, just noticed that he found a new home!!! YAY!!!! Good luck helping find the others homes as well!!


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I read through this entire thing. How horrible! I'm glad he found a home!


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> She's definitely over her head. I have to give her credit; she's coping pretty well on her own and is trying to find homes for a lot of them.
> 
> Dentist is schedules to come out sometime soon; Lindsay and I are going to have ours done at the same time by the same guy.


(grin)..just make sure the guy sanitizes the rasp before he puts it in your mouth.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Really and truly, I'm so grateful for all of your guys' support and advice. Thank you again!



tlkng1 said:


> (grin)..just make sure the guy sanitizes the rasp before he puts it in your mouth.


 Lol. Maybe I should have clarified....;-)


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

Are you still in touch with the new owner?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Moei said:


> Are you still in touch with the new owner?


 No, I haven't met her. Hopefully she'll find a way to give us updates every so often.


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## Moei (Jan 11, 2012)

equiniphile said:


> No, I haven't met her. Hopefully she'll find a way to give us updates every so often.


I hope so and if she does, keep us updated!!!


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