# how is my position and is my posting okay for a beginner?



## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

This is a CRAPPY video and my horse was being stubborn cause there were puddles:shock::lol: Anyways once I got the crop out she did TONS better with cooperating...my camera died shortly after. I will get a better video and longer one as this is only 13 seconds.
http://s209.photobucket.com/albums/bb301/greentea88_2007/?action=view&current=061-1.mp4&newest=1


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Relax dem elbows! When I was with a huntseat instructor, I had the same problem. I went to a reining instructor, and he said 'looks nice if you're trying to drive the horse with a steering wheel.' 

Looks like you're on the wrong diagonal(but don't take my word on it.) Rise and fall with the leg on the wall. Sink the heels down a little more.. it kind of looks like you're bracing on your stirrups a little much, but it's hard to tell with 3 strides to go by.

Next time, if you can, get a video of you going at least 1 lap around the arena. That'll give us a better idea.

I like the crop idea. Were you using a dressage whip or a crop?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I got out an actual crop as she moves with that...I don't have to hit her with it but when she sees it she trots and keeps trotting.

I was told she looks in pain. I don't know what to do as when I touch her back and such she isn't sore. I can put a saddle on her perfectly fine..sometimes she is a bit grumpy but she doesn't try to bite or anything anymore.She has been like this since I got her. Also she is like this when I ride bareback...help?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

oh and one more thing..she has her ears perked up on trails and wants to trot and canter..maybe that can help you guys out...I found out yesterday there is one saddle fitter in the valley..he is like 80 yrs old and takes a long time to get the saddle finished and then he forgets to call you back to tell you your saddle is done.... =/


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

If I were you, I'd try a dressage whip instead of a crop. It goes behind your leg, so the horse gets more of a leg-whip connection.

Yeah, she looks *****ed.* I knew a 25yo horse that did that kind of thing.. he started biting and bloating to avoid the girth.. and now has a permanent head-throw(not the good kind) because his back hurts so bad. My old coach doesn't care and still lets a girl run the crap outta him. She may still have a bit of pain with your weight in the saddle-- that's why she doesn't react to touches? 

Try to get as many IRL opinions as possible. DIFFERENT vets, chiros, massage therapists, saddle fitters.. *something* is bothering her.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

i don't know of any massage therapists...I can get a chiro out....maaaaybe a saddle fitter if I can find one.I put up ads and have had no luck


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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

you are on the wrong diagonal but your posting looks ok but, I can't tell because it's to short of a video. 

Heels down, toes in!

Other than that looking good.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

thank you.
How can I make sure I'm on the correct diagonal?
I will get a better video..I know this wasn't a good one.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Gidget said:


> I got out an actual crop as she moves with that...I don't have to hit her with it but when she sees it she trots and keeps trotting.
> 
> I was told she looks in pain. I don't know what to do as when I touch her back and such she isn't sore. I can put a saddle on her perfectly fine..sometimes she is a bit grumpy but she doesn't try to bite or anything anymore.She has been like this since I got her. Also she is like this when I ride bareback...help?


 
She looks very off in her hind legs, I want to say the outside (right) stifle.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

JustDressageIt said:


> She looks very off in her hind legs, I want to say the outside (right) stifle.


 
what do you mean? like an old injury?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I know her left leg is a bit funky shaped near the hoof...it looks turned out a bit and the hoof is always a bit swooped even with trims..I call it her crooked leg.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Gidget said:


> what do you mean? like an old injury?
> 
> I know her left leg is a bit funky shaped near the hoof...it looks turned out a bit and the hoof is always a bit swooped even with trims..I call it her crooked leg.


I have no idea what it would be from.. it could be an injury, I honestly don't know. All I see is that she's off, and I would bet it's on her outside (in that video, so her right) hind. Could be both hinds, though, she's moving quite stiff.
It might be worth getting a vet out to do a flexion test to see, especially if you feel that she's off on a regular basis.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I found a chiro...is $139 for a complete evaluation high? treatments from then on are less it said..here is the site.

Chiropractic Services :Rogue Valley Equine Hospital


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I would personally prefer to get a vet's opinion.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

really?
can you tell me why that is?


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

A vet is more qualified when it comes to diagnosing and a treatment plan. A chiro can give you an idea of whats wrong but they specialize in more muscle type treatment. A vet can tell you for sure whats wrong.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Exactly what Liz (Dressage10135) said. A vet is *qualified to diagnose*. Not saying Chiros don't have a place - they absolutely do - but in this instance, where a problem is detected, you want the best, the most qualified person possible, to come out and diagnose the problem.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> She looks very off in her hind legs, I want to say the outside (right) stifle.


I see it now. She's definitely short-striding.

My coach has a lot of experience with lameness and chiropractic work(she's in school for a massage degree, too), so I can ask her if she can at least try to pinpoint the location so you have an idea of what to ask the vet.

But I agree, I'd get a lameness exam done.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

okay,I will have my vet come out or walk her over to the vet's house since they are right by me.

They said she had an attidude issue with them last time they were out..anyways...I will have them out to check...I will also have them check my saddle and go from there. Thanks guys....my poor horse. I just wish I could figure out the issue as I have been struggling with this for a year now.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

she can be lame!? whaaaat?!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

oh wait guys..you know..she got her leg hurt awhile ago on her right one...i forgot...it was a cut and it swelled up..had the vet out..they said she wasn't lame..buuut maybe she is now?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

She looks lame. Off = lame. She's short-striding, and not travelling straight with her hind legs, and in my opinion (from a very short video, and I am not a vet) it looks like it might be something in her right stifle. That is what my gut says. I would get a vet out to do a lameness exam, and really have him or her concentrate on the hind end.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

ANY degree of 'offness/stiffness/soreness' is lameness. 

If the vet seems biased because they examined her earlier, get another opinion. Any equine animal vet should at least be able to check her out.


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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

you should be rising with the horses leg closest to the outside of the ring... so if your tracking right you want to rise up on the outside leg which is the leg closest to the outside of the ring.. when tracking left same thing.... if you are tracking right and you are coming up on the inside leg you wanna sit twice and than start posting again... someone might be able to explain that better sorry.. 

also she does look stiff and i definitely agree with everyone else get another opinion


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Rise when the outside leg goes forward. You can glance down (with your eyes, not your head lol) and check, the outside shoulder should be going forward as you go up.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

okay,thanks guys  I will have to work on that.

I am going to call the vet first thing in the morning.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Here is a video of her...umm..it's not long at all..I am going to get a video of her tomorrow..but this shows her walking and trotting away.

025-5.mp4 video by greentea88_2007 - Photobucket


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Not enough trot steps to tell anything. Did you make a vet appointment?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I made a vet appointment. They came out after I called .

Here is the news

Gidget has one deformed hoof.
She also has a muscle spasms in her neck on one side and needs a chiro. They went over her tack and we tried it on and everything and they said it fits her. The bit is a bit low and they said to try a thinner snaffle as mine is thick...I have thinner ones as well. They checked her walk and they said there is nothing wrong with it but her foot is kind of crooked. She has no back pain the vet said. Her teeth are good also.

I have another video..I just have to upload it.

I have only been riding english for 3 months and I know I need a lot of work with it. I need to gain some muscle in my upper thighs as I am slightly bracing on the stirrups as my legs get tired.Anyways critque once I get it up in a few min.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

A vet checked over tack? That is a first. They really don't have any training in that area, unless they have taken a course on saddlefitting. Really, and honestly, I have never seen a vet check over someone's tack. 
Also, how did the lameness and flexion tests go? Did they only walk Gidget?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Yeah,I have had two vets check over tack before...one saw my saddle was too big so I got a new saddle shortly after and said it fit her also this vet is my main vet and they said it fits her well..they looked over the tree and the sides and whatnot.
They walked her around..they picked up her legs as well.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

So the vet came out and didn't trot her at all? Did you tell him thats when you noticed that she seemed the most sore? I'm not doubting what the vet did, I've just never had a vet do a lameness exam without trotting the horse!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

they checked all her legs,hoofs,stomach,back,walked her around while the vet checked her out from a distance and I tacked her up how I normally do and they tested the saddle and everything and there is no pain in her shoulders...no brusing.There is enough clearance in my saddle but not too much nor too little. The said her neck needs to be adjusted...which makes sense as if she were grumpy...look at it this way

Horse as a stiff neck and muscle spasms.She is going to be focusing on the pain in her neck more then being told to trot on because it hurts to move it...her eyes were bulging out of her head while he checked her over.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Gidget, it's time for a new vet if you're being serious.
A lameness test, ANY lameness test, would never be performed at a walk. The gait that will show lameness the most is the trot, and no vet worth their salt would ever do anything less. 
Flexion tests are when the vet stands and holds a horse's leg in one position for approx. 30 seconds, then you trot the horse out in a straight line at a good clip for most of an arena to determine lameness. Depending on what kind of flexion test they do (i.e. you can stress certain structures individually) they can pinpoint the lameness. This will all be done on a safe, firm surface. 
They will generally ask you to lunge the horse at a TROT to see if the stress of a circle seems to be bilateral or not, or worse one direction. 
I do not understand why a vet would come out, poke around a horse's neck, look at your saddle and bridle, ask you to mosey around at a walk, and say there is nothing wrong. Did they take hoof testers to her feet? Did they recommend a certain farrier, or talk to you about a treatment plan to try and get her "wonky hoof" as correct as possible?
Something is very, very off here.
I have said it before and I will say it again - she appears off (lame) in the hind end. Did the vet say anything about her hind end at all?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

they did recommend a farrier for her feet and it's one that I actually already schedule.They said he is a great farrier and will help correct her hoof to some degree.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Gidget, what about the rest of my post?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

JDI...I'm sorry..I have been responding to other messages.

They did not do a hoof test.

I will put it in your words..they poked around and checked her tack. They didn't do a flexion tests or any trotting.
The talked to me and told me


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Get a new vet. 
If you have concerns about your horse being *lame*, your vet needs to perform certain tests. Flexion tests are a bare minimum for vets to diagnose lameness. Again, no vet worth his salt would ever tell its owner that the horse "just has a neck spasm" when the owner is concerned about leg lameness, especially in the hind end. 
You say that they diagnosed a "wonky hoof" but it seems they didn't do anything but *look *at the hoof. What about hoof testers to see if there's something tender? What about trotting out to see HOW lame she is? 
I'd ask for my money back. If you spent a dollar on that vet, it was hiway robbery.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Honestly,I don't think my horse is lame. I looked at the videos and I couldn't see anything.I have a video loading right now I planned on showing you. Like people say..you can't really tell with 13 seconds of a video. 
She has a foot that has always been turned out quite a bit..I mean it's not sideways but you can defiently tell it's not a normal straight hoof. 
Also..last vet as told me she has had knots before and I had to massage them. She hasn't learned to relax and stretch and I have been working with her for quite some time. 

I am sorry you are not happy with my vet. I plan to have a massage therapist come out for my horse and look at her and the farrier is coming out as well.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

oh and just so you know..farriers can test for lameness issues.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

here is the video...mind you I am still learning and I can tell I bopped her in the mouth and my legs aren't steady as I am not use to posting and still trying to learn how to properly do it.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

JustDressageIt is just showing concern for the horse. I thought Gidget looked stiff, cranky and might have a head bob at the trot. It will be good to see another video. It IS hard to tell just from a short snippet. No one is trying to upset you, just trying to get to the bottom of the problem for both of your sakes.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You *paid* a vet to come out and do a lameness exam, did you not? They should have, at the very very _very_ least done a flexion test. I, as well as other posters, see lameness in a short 13 second clip. You said you paid a vet to come out and assess your horse, and in my opinion, if what you're saying is indeed true, they didn't do anything of the sort. 
You asked us if we thought your horse was lame. I replied that yes, I thought your horse was lame, and that it would be beneficial for you to get a vet out to assess her lameness. You seemed very concerned, and willing to want to help your horse out. You then posted that your vet came out, and performed some tests. I pointed out that those tests had little, if not nothing, to do with your horse's potential soundness issues, and that those tests would not have actually told you anything about her soundness. I also pointed out that your vet didn't perform any of the basic tests, or do any followup, like a qualified vet would. I can honestly say that, if the story is true, you need to find a new vet because yours doesn't even begin cover the basics. 
My opinion here is obviously not wanted, but I hope you read my posts and realize that I'm only thinking of the best for your horse. I only have your horse's best interests in mind. In my opinion, your horse is worth getting checked out by a qualified professional that isn't going to give you the brush off, or some BS excuse without doing the most basic of lameness tests. In my opinion, your horse *may* be lame, and in my opinion, a couple hundred dollars spent now on *a good *vet could save you a lot of money and heartache down the road. 
If you would like my thoughts on anything else concerning this matter, you are welcome to ask, otherwise I believe I've overstayed my welcome in this thread.

Edited to add - after watching that video in the above post, I still think that the horse is lame in the right hind.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Oohps, I posted the above at almost the same time you posted the last video. 

She doesn't look lame to me in last one (but I am not real experienced in assessing lameness) but she does look uncomfortable and travels hollow and doesn't seem to like bit contact.

So I don't know if that is because she doesn't like bit contact, or she is uncomfortable rounding up her back. If her neck (or back) hurts her, then that could explain it.

Hopefully someone more experience will have more insight.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I can have another vet out or have her hauled to his place better yet.
He is an equine vet.I can ask for a second opinion. Oh and...you know..I told them over the phone I wanted the tack assessed(if they do that) and everything as she has some mood issues and to see if she is in pain.I can have another vet out but it will probably have to be next month is the thing or at the end of this month.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

her neck hurts her quite abit.
I told them she hollows her back..they did say that if she is just going around that is okay but asking for a trot or canter she needs to be rounded...she doesnt like bit contact and I think it's cause it causes tention on her neck. I have been working with contact and then releasing when she does good but for me(still need lessons) I can't seem to get her to work from the behind..it's hard for me..I heard it will be a lot easier to ride if she is rounded.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Gidget said:


> here is the video...mind you I am still learning and I can tell I bopped her in the mouth and my legs aren't steady as I am not use to posting and still trying to learn how to properly do it.
> 
> YouTube - 003


 
oh and the back foot you mainly see is her crooked foot.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

She's probably not rounding her back because she has a pain issue, not that you aren't asking correctly.

The reason I say that, is because my level of training isn't very good myself, and I can still get my (non gaited) horses to collect up, or at least what feels like collection to me. 

So I guess what I'm saying is, I think Gidget would be at least attempting to arch her neck/break at the poll and travel less hollow if that is what you were aiming for. Because she is not, I think it is physical problem for her.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

She is your horse, and it is your money. 
I am simply telling you that whatever the vet did today was not anywhere near a lameness exam. If you told the vet you were concerned about her being possibly lame, the vet should have, at the absolute bare minimum, watched her lunge in a circle at a good trot, and then done some flexion tests. Your vet did not test lameness AT ALL today, so you cannot say that your horse isn't lame; your vet did not come anywhere close to testing her. 
If you went into the doctor and complained that your knee hurt, and they said "well, your other foot kinda turns in, your neck is out, and your shoes are an okay fit" would you be happy with that? No, you would expect to have some tests done on why your *knee* hurts. You would want answers, and you would likely feel that you just wasted a ton of time and money. You would likely feel, too, that the doctor was a crock. Your knee would still hurt, and you would have no idea why, nor how to deal effectively with the pain.
If you're satisfied with that type of answer, then I really honestly don't know what to say. I would not be. I would want my money's worth. If I paid a vet to come out and check out my horse, I would be furious if they didn't perform certain examinations.
In thorse videos, she looks very stiff and in pain. I still say it originates in the hind end, and I would want to make for absolute certain that it is NOT in the hind end before I proceeded.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

yea,I think this is what I will do..
Get another opinion from a vet..I know which one I have in mind.
And see what they think and I will also have a horse massage therapist out for her as I know someone that's daughter just completed her schooling and whatnot and needs clients to help her get going.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

JustDressageIt said:


> She is your horse, and it is your money.
> I am simply telling you that whatever the vet did today was not anywhere near a lameness exam. If you told the vet you were concerned about her being possibly lame, the vet should have, at the absolute bare minimum, watched her lunge in a circle at a good trot, and then done some flexion tests. Your vet did not test lameness AT ALL today, so you cannot say that your horse isn't lame; your vet did not come anywhere close to testing her.
> If you went into the doctor and complained that your knee hurt, and they said "well, your other foot kinda turns in, your neck is out, and your shoes are an okay fit" would you be happy with that? No, you would expect to have some tests done on why your *knee* hurts. You would want answers, and you would likely feel that you just wasted a ton of time and money. You would likely feel, too, that the doctor was a crock. Your knee would still hurt, and you would have no idea why, nor how to deal effectively with the pain.
> If you're satisfied with that type of answer, then I really honestly don't know what to say. I would not be. I would want my money's worth. If I paid a vet to come out and check out my horse, I would be furious if they didn't perform certain examinations.
> In thorse videos, she looks very stiff and in pain. I still say it originates in the hind end, and I would want to make for absolute certain that it is NOT in the hind end before I proceeded.


 
I will get a second opinion just for you :wink: I was prepared to possibly get a second opinion and I will set one up for another vet. TRUST me I do want the best for my horse..always have.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You aren't getting a second opinion for me. You are getting it for your horse's well being, and knowing that your question wasn't answered. I am only looking out for horses' wellbeing. This could have (and should have) been addressed in one visit, and I'm still blown away that they didn't do even the most basic of testing.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

This is a flexion test. Every vet I have ever known will do one of these in either a front leg, hind leg, or all legs in order to see if a horse is lame and the area that it's bothered in.

Front leg - this horse is not lame.




 
Explaining a flexion test - they flex the hind leg at 2:30 and at the end of the video they state that "No lameness exam is complete without a flexion test".


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Considering I come from a world where a headshake is GOOD, and have to find alternative ways to tell if a horse is lame(short-striding and refusing to gait), I can say that she is short-striding. That is lameness. I ride a horse sometimes that is ABSOLUTELY lame. It's a permanent thing. I can show the video, but I dunno if the owner wants me to have it posted. But *I* can spot it-- are you confident that you can?

She needs a lameness exam. It may not be the saddle or her neck at all.

I agree with JDI. Don't do another exam for *her.* Do it for the soundness and long-term health of your horse.

PS. I'd cancel the show for this month..


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Arksly, good videos. The vet will usually ask the owner/handler to lunge the horse at a good trot both directions, then trot to and from the vet at a good clip to determine where they think the lameness might originate, then flex those (or all) legs in two (or more) positions. From there, they might proceed to more testing (i.e. nerve blocks, x-rays) if they feel it's warranted. 
No vet - and I mean no vet - would walk away from a lameness exam without doing some variation of the above, unless the lameness is extremely obvious at the walk, such as with some extreme lameness issues, and that is when the horse is obviously lame at a walk.
This horse is not 3-legged lame, she is still able to walk and trot, and the lameness isn't overly pronounced - i.e. she isn't short striding so much I cringe at the videos. I do think there is something wrong, but I am not there to see it in person, nor am I a vet. I am experienced enough to know what a vet does, and I do feel that I have a good eye for soundness.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

vivache said:


> Considering I come from a world where a headshake is GOOD, and have to find alternative ways to tell if a horse is lame(short-striding and refusing to gait), I can say that she is short-striding. That is lameness.
> 
> She needs a lameness exam. It may not be the saddle or her neck at all.
> 
> ...


 
I would put money on it not being her neck. Hah. 
Definitely cancel the show, (and/)or get a GOOD vet out ASAP. You don't want to be known as the person that brings a horse who's off to a show.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

guys,I will have another vet see her.
I will have them do the flexion test and everything.

I understand about the show and have considered not going after this but I will try and get one out to come see my horse.

I do want the best for her.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

First off, Gidget is uber cute. I can't say anything about your position as I am not an english rider. The one thing I see is that you are really bumping her face making her throw her head up. She seems to want to put her head down but doesn't for fear of being bumped on. 

I do see however that Gidget isn't sound. In my opinion your problem area is the right stifle and she is stiff in her neck as well. However in every horse that I have worked on with stifle issues they almost always have a sore neck as well, they kind of go hand in hand. 

I hope your new vet is able to help you and you are able to take her out and have fun at shows!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> First off, Gidget is uber cute. I can't say anything about your position as I am not an english rider. The one thing I see is that you are really bumping her face making her throw her head up. She seems to want to put her head down but doesn't for fear of being bumped on.
> 
> I do see however that Gidget isn't sound. In my opinion your problem area is the right stifle and she is stiff in her neck as well. However in every horse that I have worked on with stifle issues they almost always have a sore neck as well, they kind of go hand in hand.
> 
> I hope your new vet is able to help you and you are able to take her out and have fun at shows!


 

Thank you for the compliment.

Yea, I was bumping her mouth quite a bit:-| I could tell that is why she was putting her head up. I'll have to tell Gidget sorry about bumping her mouth. I have to work on steadying my hands and my legs. I'm use to riding with a loose rein and contact is hard for me to do. I use to ride western and so I use to just neck rein her or ride with a really loose rein.
I am going to have her evaluated and go from there. I watched the video again and I can see what you mean by the right stifle(I think..correct me if I'm wrong). I see that she puts less weight on that leg when she steps down while trotting..can't see it while walking.
I sure hope she is a rideable horse still. If not I will ALWAYS keep her.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I have to totally agree with JDI on everything.

Let me add that the horse does not even walk even. She has a funky glitch to her walk too. Far more noticeable at the trot though.

I was originally thinking that I wanted your vet, Gidget, You call and they come out right away for a mild lameness check. I usually have to wait a few days for something like that.
But after reading what you claim they did, I most certainly would not want to use that vet.

What JDI and company said about a complete lameness exam is very accurate. (Coming from someone who did a lameness exam on their horse recently and also did a PPE, which is a form of lameness exam, on another horse very recently.)


If you can not see that she is off, can you at least see how she moves totally differently on both hind legs. Look at how her pasterns look totally different with each step. Her left hind you flexes so much (taking so much weight) that you might say she had DSLD, the right hind does not flex near as much, because she is not putting the same amount of weight on it.




Gidget said:


> oh and just so you know..farriers can test for lameness issues.


What exactly does this have to do with anything?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> I would put money on it not being her neck.


Agreed. There's definitely something whonky in her hind end, primarily the right rear.

The neck pain is merely secondary, and a reaction to whatever's going on in her hind end.



JustDressageIt said:


> Definitely cancel the show, (and/)or get a GOOD vet out ASAP. You don't want to be known as the person that brings a horse who's off to a show.


Amen to this.

The _horse_ is all that matters.

Stay off her until you have an actual vet who knows what they're doing evaluate her.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I have to totally agree with JDI on everything.
> 
> Let me add that the horse does not even walk even. She has a funky glitch to her walk too. Far more noticeable at the trot though.
> 
> ...


AB :-( I can see it. I have been watching the video over and over trying to see what you guys are seeing and I can now see it :-| I can see her left leg does flex a lot...I took pictures and it does the same when I'm not on her.....I feel absolutely horrible. I'm a very sensitive person especially when it comes to Gidget...I want her to be in the best of care no doubts about it and I wish I could have seen this sooner. I called the vet and I am going to call the other vet I have in mind as I was told he was pretty good so I can get a second opinion but I can see clearly that she is off now after watching it a few more times.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Agreed. There's definitely something whonky in her hind end, primarily the right rear.
> 
> The neck pain is merely secondary, and a reaction to whatever's going on in her hind end.
> 
> ...


 
I canceled the show already.
Not going to ride her either.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

one other thing...i have a feeling she has been like this for awhile....like since I got her.


I got her from a horse trader.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Gidget said:


> one other thing...i have a feeling she has been like this for awhile....like since I got her.
> 
> 
> I got her from a horse trader.


Then it might be totally worth having the vet come out and do a full physical, including a lameness exam. 
It will allow you to get a good baseline for the whole horse.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Gidget said:


> one other thing...i have a feeling she has been like this for awhile....like since I got her.
> 
> I got her from a horse trader.


Did you buy her without consulting with a trainer or more experienced horse person? If the answer is yes, then she could very well have had a preexisting condition that your inexperienced eyes didn't see.

The majority of horse traders aren't bad people, but there's a _reason_ people do PPEs on even inexpensive horses. 

If you and/or your parents bought this horse without involving an experienced horse person, didn't get a PPE done and now have a lame horse, you've just learned an expensive lesson.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

She may have a permanent lameness issue that the horse trader knew about and ignored, or didn't pay enough attention to know. Boogie, the horse I sometimes ride to practice a slow-rack, will pace immediately when asked to go faster. Guess which leg he short-strides on?

Back-right.  

This is permanent for him and may/may not be for Gidget. Once you know the root of the problem, you will be able to figure out a course of action. It could be progressive, or not. Hopefully the vet can give you a quick diagnosis.

I'd never buy a first(or really any horse) from a trader. It's easier to get a PPE than take their word and have.. this happen.

I wanna know why the trainer hadn't picked up on it.. even for something that small, my trainer woulda drop-kicked me off the horse immediately and gone over it herself.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Taking my horse to the other vet for second opinion at 3 today.

I am not sure it is a pre existing condition or not..but she i has walked like that I believe. She might have got hurt while gaming..maybe arthritic?

I shall see.

My poor little pony. I hope it isn't something that is progressive.

I love her very very much


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

forgot to mention that my trainer has never seen her. I take lessons on her WB


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am a little confused. You have had her for a whole year and you are now saying this happened before you got her?

You did not notice she was off before?


It is amazing how quickly you get vet appointments.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am a little confused. You have had her for a whole year and you are now saying this happened before you got her?
> 
> You did not notice she was off before?
> 
> ...


 
I have always notice she ran around with stiff looking legs but never notice anything besides that. Honestly untill now I never notice anything different other than her have her stiff legs..she did get stuck in a fence a month and a half ago and I had the vet out. She might have did damage when that happen causing her to be lame...I am not sure. I am sorry if I am confusing you. And I never did notice she was off before..no else told me so maybe this just happened.

The other vet had an opening and I know someone who works there..maybe that had something to do with it but maybe not. The vet is really nice..I talked to him over the phone once so hopefully he can see what he thinks is going on. I've never really had an issue getting vets to come see my horse so I guess I am lucky when it comes to that


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I will be back on later this evening to let you all know the news.
Thank you


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

It's amazing that you're able to get such quick vet appointments. Mine only came out that quick for an emergency euthanization.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, I was able to get same day appointment with my vet 2 years back for my paint. It wasn't "true" emergency, but she was in pain after hitting herself on post (had a huge hematoma there, took me over month to get rid of it with all massages and meds I applied). 

I explained the situation to the receptionist and while she wasn't sure if it's emergency vet called me back himself, and when I explained what happened he said he'll be able to make it out because she's in pain.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

While it certainly is possible to get vet appointments in the same day, this whole scenario just sounds sketchy, you have to admit. There is no doubt this young lady cares deeply for her horse, but some things just aren't adding up. Back peddling, and making up answers to avoid some internet heat aren't going to help the horse one bit. Being open and honest with the situation will get open and honest suggestions. Otherwise, the poster just comes off as wasting everyone's time and effort.


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## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

^ Agree


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

I was just saying that it as a good thing, but I *am* a little confused.

Didn't you buy Gidget from a 14 year old who was gaming her?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I agree completely with Sahara. Gidget, you're best off telling us everything completely honestly, or we simply can't help you or your mare; and we all want what's best for her. 
I'm not saying anything about you at all, just that you should keep that in mind. 
It is very odd to get a same-day lameness exam with a vet, let alone 2 in as many days. 
I'm fairly sure I know the person you bought the mare from.... Was it the same person you bought that fjord-looking mustang cross from?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Subscribing...


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

At this point, I'm just confused. I'll be interested to see how the other vet-check goes.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Just a comment about vet appointments... in my area, it's luck of the draw. If the vet is near me and can come between existing appointments, I can get same day. Other times I'll have to wait from 2 days to a week depending. Usually only at foaling and calving time is there a longer delay because the vets are tuckered out from the midnight calls.

What did the vet say today, Gidget?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

The vet did flexion tests,hood tests with the clamps,trotting,walking,and cantering...she is NOT LAME....She is off balanced with herself somewhat as she doesn't keep a steady gait and they explained to me that is why and she naturally trots w/her legs a bit far apart..other than that she is no where near lame and no signs  

Shocked?


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

You don't need to snark.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't think she was snarking...

But something here is indeed not right.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Actually, I am shocked. 
I think I've overstayed my welcome on this thread though, good luck Gidget.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Eliz said:


> I don't think she was snarking... ((((I took the 'shocked?' as snark))))
> 
> But something here is indeed not right.


I agree, there is something weird. But this is das intertubes. The horse I show is sound. That's about all I should worry with.

Did this vet magically cure the 'neck thing' though? There was no mention of this vet saying anything about it.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I was no way snarking in any way. But you guys were on my back last night about her and how she was infact lame and of course I was worried and got her in the vet today. He is also a very good vet.Checked her whole body over and there is nothing. They said she has a attitude that needs fixed with training but other than that she is FINE..perfectly healthy.

I am now going to my show  

But I do have to say thank you all for your concern but for now on please do not comment on my horses legs as we now know she is fine and I sought out a very good vet.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

vivache said:


> I agree, there is something weird. But this is das intertubes. The horse I show is sound. That's about all I should worry with.
> 
> Did this vet magically cure the 'neck thing' though? There was no mention of this vet saying anything about it.


 
The neck is actually fine.
He should me that it's actually her bone area and it was causing her to stiffen up as she was being poked and pressed on and it cause her skin to move. He said he neck was fine and he had me touch it and she explained everything.

I'm sorry my horse isn't perfect but I love her very very much and I know I take great care of her.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

vivache said:


> I agree, there is something weird. But this is das intertubes. The horse I show is sound. That's about all I should worry with.
> 
> Did this vet magically cure the 'neck thing' though? There was no mention of this vet saying anything about it.


I can see how you took the "shocked?" thing as snark, but I think it was a geniune question lol.

But if the vet says she's sound, and Gidget's owner believes she is sound, that's all there is to it and our opinions are wasted. 

As you said, the horse you show is sound. All the horses I ride are sound, Vinnie is sound. Let's be thankful


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Also I want to say one more thing very loud and clear.

I don't know why you are picking on my horse or me for that matter. You are still assuming something isn't right. but he checked everything and she is normal,average horse. But you guys are still wanting to prove me wrong that there is still something wrong. Both vets said she was sound and both vets are great and people mention how well they do and they specialize in equines.

I have a few other people on here that didn't think she was off either.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Eliz said:


> I can see how you took the "shocked?" thing as snark, but I think it was a geniune question lol.
> 
> But if the vet says she's sound, and Gidget's owner believes she is sound, that's all there is to it and our opinions are wasted.
> 
> As you said, the horse you show is sound. All the horses I ride are sound, Vinnie is sound. Let's be thankful


 
Thank you.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I just read this entire thread. A little bit of a cluster f*** if you ask me.
The OP said she was a beginner, so you all should have cut her a little slack. The horse is stiff and doesnt' move great. She has probably been rode hard and put away wet in her past life. The OP spent time and money checking things out. What more can you ask? We are not there to see the whole horse.
Besides, if Gidget is lame, in time it'll show more clearly. If not, she's a cranky little cowpony who is loved just the way she is.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks Tinyliny. I apperciate your words.
I know Gidget doesn't move great.She was a gamer for a most of her life untill I got her. She was probably worked hard. I playd around with gaming and she hates it with a passion and I have only seen her hate gaming.
She is a stiff mover. But currently there are no signs of being lame and I had tests ran and spent quite a bit of money to make sure she was sound. If she becomes lame later on I shall let you all know but I did only want a critque of me and it ended up as a critque as gidget and honestly don't want to post any more videos because of it.I will probably only send them out in PM for now on.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Gidget said:


> The vet did flexion tests,hood tests with the clamps,trotting,walking,and cantering...she is NOT LAME....She is off balanced with herself somewhat as she doesn't keep a steady gait and they explained to me that is why and she naturally trots w/her legs a bit far apart..other than that she is no where near lame and no signs


I didn't go through all pages, so may be it was asked before... Did you try chiro by any chance?


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

I will say that a horse that 'doesn't move great' or shows 'tude won't do well in any pleasure class, but you can possibly do well in EQ classes. If the judge sees any 'offness' you'll be DQ'd. 

Is she on a joint supplement? I'd recommend one of the higher SmartFlexes or Cetyl M-- Max had horrible stifle issues and it helped. That and massage/chiro work should help her loosen up.

The critique fell on the horse because the horse's movement affects the rider, especially with posting.

No one was picking on you or even being all that rude.. but confusion did happen and led people to think you were being dishonest.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I was never dishonest.
I asked the vet today if a chiro was needed at all and he said no but someone is coming out to do massage therapy since she is just starting out in her career and needs horses to work on. 

She may not do well herself but I have gone to shows and have taken home 2nd place and 5ths. I can say we have always placed in a show which I am happy about but I am also going to shows for the experience more than anything. Also I have never been disqualified from the judges.
One thing also is she is getting her feet done. The last farrier(trying to find someone good as I did have an awesome farrier but he ended up being booked constantly) and I have one that Piaffe is using and the vets say he is really good as her hooves are off balance somewhat..maybe this could be why she moves like that..Also I read on a hoof site that if a horse has a high heel(mine does) then it can cause them to have shorter strides and they don't perform as better. My friend sent this to me.She hauled my horse over to the clinic today.

I will probably get her on a joint supplement.It won't hurt her if she took it anyways.


Also i am do small local shows..nothing big and fancy.

I just want people to ignore her legs now as she cannot help how she moves. I am going to wait a week and take a video of her trotting around since her feet will be done(this saturday). But I am going with what the vet said. I asked about the raspberry leaves and said it won't hurt her if I give it to her so might give that a go.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

Well that's good to hear that she's fine.

I must say, parts of your story did get a little confusing so that is likely the reason for people thinking you weren't telling the entire truth.

Some horses are also just built a certain way so that their movement almost looks "off". My very first horse had to have a custom saddle because one front leg reached considerably further forward than the other. 

However, it is always good to check. You might think it's nothing when it really is something and vise versa. Better to be safe than sorry.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I am sorry if I confused all of you! ...I didn't mean to and I never meant to sound dishonest. Sorry guys but I did tell the truth and everything is taken care of.

again sorry I confused you all.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

JustDressageIt said:


> I agree completely with Sahara. Gidget, you're best off telling us everything completely honestly, or we simply can't help you or your mare; and we all want what's best for her.
> I'm not saying anything about you at all, just that you should keep that in mind.
> It is very odd to get a same-day lameness exam with a vet, let alone 2 in as many days.
> I'm fairly sure I know the person you bought the mare from.... Was it the same person you bought that fjord-looking mustang cross from?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Hey JDI..for some reason I totally missed a page..I went to back track to see where I sounded dishonest and anyways no,I did not get my horse from that person with the fjord cross. I got her from a man and a girl gamed her before she came to him(he known gidget since she was 6 months and was sold to this girl and then came back up to the guy because the girl wanted a faster horse) and then my mom bought Gidget for me as a present for xmas.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I am glad to hear you had her vetted. There are some suppling exercises you can do with her to help her stretch out and move comfortably, as well as some supplements to help with her joints. Sounds like she may have been ridden hard in a previous life, so her joints might be stiff from that. Good luck with her.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Looks like Gidget lives in Oregon. I do too, and I often get vet appointments in one or two days. 
When I looked at the horse's movement I did not think she looked lame. I see a stock-type horse that appears to be somewhat out of shape. That is not saying she is not ridden frequently, but she doesn't look like she is galloped on hills or anything.  The heavily muscled types tend to have less range of motion than other breeds. I seriously doubt she will ever have the flowing movement of a warmblood and she probably will never be as flexible as an Arabian. I have had lots of farriers complain about working on stock breeds because their thick muscles keep them from stretching out their legs well. 
If she has difficulty flexing her poll for you don't get discouraged. I have had Arabians be able to round up easily right away, but worked for months with quarter horse/paint horse types. Again, it comes down to the muscles that are made for short bursts of speed instead of endurance. Also if a horse has a thick throatlatch or is built downhill naturally it will take time to redevelop their body, and only so much change will be physically possible.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

gottatrot said:


> Looks like Gidget lives in Oregon. I do too, and I often get vet appointments in one or two days.
> When I looked at the horse's movement I did not think she looked lame. I see a stock-type horse that appears to be somewhat out of shape. That is not saying she is not ridden frequently, but she doesn't look like she is galloped on hills or anything.  The heavily muscled types tend to have less range of motion than other breeds. I seriously doubt she will ever have the flowing movement of a warmblood and she probably will never be as flexible as an Arabian. I have had lots of farriers complain about working on stock breeds because their thick muscles keep them from stretching out their legs well.
> If she has difficulty flexing her poll for you don't get discouraged. I have had Arabians be able to round up easily right away, but worked for months with quarter horse/paint horse types. Again, it comes down to the muscles that are made for short bursts of speed instead of endurance. Also if a horse has a thick throatlatch or is built downhill naturally it will take time to redevelop their body, and only so much change will be physically possible.


 
That was very interesting to read. I did not know that!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh and one more things..where about do you live in Oregon..I'm near medford!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

gottatrot said:


> I see a stock-type horse that appears to be somewhat out of shape. That is not saying she is not ridden frequently, but she doesn't look like she is galloped on hills or anything.  The heavily muscled types tend to have less range of motion than other breeds. I seriously doubt she will ever have the flowing movement of a warmblood and she probably will never be as flexible as an Arabian. I have had lots of farriers complain about working on stock breeds because their thick muscles keep them from stretching out their legs well.


I do not disagree that different body types have different movements. That does not explain away the inconsistency in how this horse moves its back legs. If it was simply a matter of a stock breed having a less flowing movement then both back legs would move equally short. One pastern would not over flex on impact where the other pastern does not flex at all.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

It might be because he foot is deformed. I am having a farrier out to come fix her feet as I said in a post. It's pretty narely...AB...can I message you real quick in a PM?..I have a question I'd like to ask in person about me.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

You're right, AB, the shorter stride on a stock horse should be equal on both sides. For some reason I'm not seeing this...maybe I'm looking at the wrong video? The only one I saw where she was not moving evenly was one where it looked more like she was breaking gait so I didn't really try to evaluate that one.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

gottatrot said:


> You're right, AB, the shorter stride on a stock horse should be equal on both sides. For some reason I'm not seeing this...maybe I'm looking at the wrong video? The only one I saw where she was not moving evenly was one where it looked more like she was breaking gait so I didn't really try to evaluate that one.


 
You know,the vet did mention that she tries to break gait and she is usually in the middle of in a trot or canter is what he told me and it makes the horse look off.
I free lunged her today and she did great.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Gidget said:


> You know,the vet did mention that she tries to break gait


With every single stride?


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

nope,not with every single stride.
She was doing it sometimes going into a canter and was stuck in the middle for a few seconds..like a very very fast trot type deal. I worked with her with lunging and was watching her and she didn't break gait except when she would stop and try to turn the other way but we have been working on that and trying to get her to relax and stretch. Last night I also had her stretch side to side and a downwards angle(I taught her this on command.I point and she stretches and she knows she will be rewarded with a pat,rub,or a treat).


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

The over-flexation of the pastern on the near hind, that AB is referring to, is apparent in every single stride she is taking at the trot in your second video (I was never able to get the first video to work for me, so I can't say either way for that one)

ETA: Suggestion. Send the link to that 2nd video, to your vet


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Indyhorse said:


> The over-flexation of the pastern on the near hind, that AB is referring to, is apparent in every single stride she is taking at the trot in your second video (I was never able to get the first video to work for me, so I can't say either way for that one)
> 
> ETA: Suggestion. Send the link to that 2nd video, to your vet





I can do that. I can send it to the 2nd vet as I have their email. He seemed like a REALLY good vet. Also...could she just have longer pasterns? My mom's horse does and it looks like that.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Gidget said:


> I can do that. I can send it to the 2nd vet as I have their email. He seemed like a REALLY good vet. Also...could she just have longer pasterns? My mom's horse does and it looks like that.


That wouldn't cause one side to over-flex and the other to barely flex at all. The only thing that would do that is if she is with-holding weight on the one side - pretty much always due to lameness or other injury, such as suspensory ligament injuries AB mentioned.

http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ceh/docs/special/Pubs-SuspBrochure-bkm-sec.pdf


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

that was great information,thanks.
I did send them the video. But they have also lunged her in a round pen and palpated her tendons.But maybe he can watch the video and see something


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Gidget said:


> that was great information,thanks.
> I did send them the video. But they have also lunged her in a round pen and palpated her tendons.But maybe he can watch the video and see something


It might be that it is more noticeable that she is with-holding weight from that side when she is carrying the extra weight of a rider. Hope you are able to have it looked into. As you saw from the link I sent, generally the diagnosis can only be made through ultrasound of the ligaments - palpation generally wont do the trick.


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

I just wanted to also mention that I talked to a lady on smartpaks and they are sending me three day sample of smart tendon to see if that helps her out. I talked to her about what is going on and I read reviews and it sounds like this could help her.
I called the vet and they will review the video tomorrow when he gets back in the office


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Gidget said:


> I just wanted to also mention that I talked to a lady on smartpaks and they are sending me three day sample of smart tendon to see if that helps her out. I talked to her about what is going on and I read reviews and it sounds like this could help her.
> I called the vet and they will review the video tomorrow when he gets back in the office



Great news! Let us know what he says.

Also...probably shouldn't rush into starting a supplement (particularly a costly one) until you know exactly what issues there are to be addressed. I'm no vet, I am only telling you what I see, and what I think everyone else is seeing that your vet might not have seen, without seeing the horse move extensively. Never treat without a qualified diagnosis from a qualified individual first!


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## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

good thinking...welll...I guess I will have the supplement in hand. It is costly.
Also maybe corrective shoeing on the back legs?...might make her butt high though =/ I thought maybe I would see what the farrier says too as he is coming out tomorrow instead of saturday.

I am sending you a quick video..I sound and look heck of lame..but this will show you.


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