# Is my horse too skinny?



## Gala84 (Sep 4, 2012)

I recently bought this horse and after studying him and his pics I'm thinking looks a little underweight. He is a 12 year old Arabian and he is just under 15 hh. Ive never had a skinny horse and am not sure, what does everyone else think?


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

Maybe try giving a little extra hay . He's not horrible under weight though.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

An arab will never look like a quarter horse. He actually looks in pretty good weight. Maybe up his hay a bit but I wouldn't add extra feeds, especially since he's already high strung.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Since I have two horses with metabolic issues and Arabs are on that predisposed list, I think he looks fine.

But I wouldn't want to see him lose any weight, especially going into winter.

What are you feeding him and how much?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You should be able to feel his ribs, but not see them quite so prominently. He's not horribly underweight, but I would up his hay. Says the woman whose horses tend to stay hog fat, even her 'sensitive' TB.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

poppy1356 said:


> An arab will never look like a quarter horse. He actually looks in pretty good weight. Maybe up his hay a bit but I wouldn't add extra feeds, especially since he's already high strung.


Did I miss the part where she mentioned high strung?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

mls said:


> Did I miss the part where she mentioned high strung?


Probably inferring, since aren't _all_ Ayrabs high strung? :wink:

(Joke y'all, I've had Arabs for 34 years)


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Guess I didn't realize that Speed! Hottest horse on my place is a quarter horse!


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Her post from yesterday, she is having issues with him spooking and being the typical high strung arab


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## Gala84 (Sep 4, 2012)

At his former home he was on a round bale, and he has constant access to round bales here too. I bought a bag of grain,Safe Choice, and planned on giving him some maybe 3/week, but I dont want him to get hotter, but if hes too thin I might have to. Especially since(as you can see from the pic) he is packing around alot of weight.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Safe choice shouldn't make him hot. My arab was on that until I decided to pull all "feeds" from her diet. But in order for it to be effective you should feed according to the label. Make sure to feed in several small meals throughout the day. You might try adding rice bran to his diet. Put weight on my girl pretty well.

Edit: Make sure he is free from worms. He doesn't appear to have a worm problem but you can't always tell from looking.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

Agreed. You should be able to easily feel his ribs but not see them quite as easily as you can. Just plenty of hay will do the trick, he isn't in bad shape by any means.


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## SaddleOnline (Oct 20, 2011)

He is not in terrible shape, but a little extra wouldn't hurt, especially going into winter or if you are planning on upping his work load. Try adding rice bran, it makes them fat and shiny without the added energy that extra concentrates would. Also, you can't go wrong with extra hay. 

Good Luck!


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

He is thinner than I like my horses. I say some more food would be good, you don't want them thin going into winter.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Probably inferring, since aren't _all_ Ayrabs high strung? :wink:
> 
> (Joke y'all, I've had Arabs for 34 years)


So they that don't know a thing about them say

Mr. WTW has always called my Arab "The Stoner Horse" :shock:

I've had one or two great children's horses in my life but my Arab is the best by far. He was a lesson horse for children under 12 for several years, he loves loves loves babies and toddlers and will practically stop breathing while they fondle him and crawl around him. I can sit little children on him in his stall and never worry that he will move away from the hay tub unexpectedly.

He is now 26 and has been that way since I rescued him over 19 years ago:hug:


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Sorry all I should have linked her other thread.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/i-desperately-need-advice-my-new-136688/

I'm not implying all arabs are high strung, simply that her horse seems to be at the moment.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Gala84 said:


> I bought a bag of grain,Safe Choice, and planned on giving him some maybe 3/week,


Hi,

Firstly, I'm with the mob who say he's looking OK. Perhaps a tad light, but not by much, not a problem. The reason I have this view, rather than being among the crowd who 'like' their horses well padded is for health reasons. The main one is IR, which is about the most common cause of laminitis. It is much like type 2 diabetes in people and is extremely common in domestic horses these days, where it seems fat horses are more fashionable. As with people, we can afford to get overweight, but it's long term 'well paddedness' that causes metabolic issues. It's not just obesity, but even those who are a little heavy but long term, without regular 'bad seasons' to use up fat stores are at risk of developing insulin resistance. That is why I prefer to see horses that may be classed as 'slightly under' than overweight. 2 good online sources for more info; Katy Watts | Safergrass.org & Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Information 

Re grain, this(or other high starch/sugar feeds) are generally not great for horses. So saying, I don't think(?Haven't looked into that feed recently) Safe Choice is grain, tho I think it's got a little in. It seems to be a reasonable feed. 

I suggest you do some study into equine nutrition & digestion, aside from the above sites though, because 3/weekly feeding is just not appropriate for a horse. They are built for near constant grazing of tiny amounts & don't cope well with large &/or infrequent meals. So little & often feeding is important.


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## HezaSunnyDudeAPHA (Jan 4, 2011)

What I would do is first worm him, just to be sure he dosent have any issues with that. Second, what kind of grain do you feed? I wouldnt recommend loading up on Hay because that will just give youa hay belly, not healthy nutritious weight gain. I would just use a 12% feed if you wont be dont any hard performance work with him. =] just my opinion though.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

HezaSunnyDudeAPHA said:


> What I would do is first worm him, just to be sure he dosent have any issues with that. Second, what kind of grain do you feed? I wouldnt recommend loading up on Hay because that will just give youa hay belly, not healthy nutritious weight gain. I would just use a 12% feed if you wont be dont any hard performance work with him. =] just my opinion though.


I was going to suggest that. It looks as though he has a bit of a belly under him, and yet his ribs are still showing.

I would put him on a wormer.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

HezaSunnyDudeAPHA said:


> What I would do is first worm him, just to be sure he dosent have any issues with that. Second, what kind of grain do you feed? I wouldnt recommend loading up on Hay because that will just give youa hay belly, not healthy nutritious weight gain. I would just use a 12% feed if you wont be dont any hard performance work with him. =] just my opinion though.


This is not entirely true.......feeding a good quality hay with a higher protein level will not cause a hay belly nor is it " not healthy nutritious weight gain".....a good quality hay with an adequate protein level is what is recommended prior to any grain or oil being added to the diet.

I do not feed any grain .......just a good quality hay with vitamin E and selenium in a cup of wet beep pulp.......all are in good weight and no hay belly's

But a low quality/protein hay that is high in fiber can cause a hay belly.

Super Nova


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## Centaurheart (Jul 9, 2012)

Blaze looks thin to me. But that being said the best bang for your buck being on a budget is hay hay hay. I agree with getting him on a worming rotation. Skip the grain and give him a little rice bran and soaked fluffy beet pulp until you like how he looks. Corn oil wont hurt either. Also....just a side note...you two look like a good fit size wise.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

I would maybe add a little grain just until he puts on a bit more weight. If he gets to hot I know my friend uses some powdered calming feed stuff to her horses feed that really helps but I am not sure what it is called I left the barn where she was at. He looks pretty good though all around especially since he does have a nice belly. However I am inclined to believe _part_ of what makes him look underweight is that he is slightly swaybacked, I have noticed that a lot of swaybacked horses seem to look thin on the top.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

poppy1356 said:


> Safe choice shouldn't make him hot. My arab was on that until I decided to pull all "feeds" from her diet. But in order for it to be effective you should feed according to the label. Make sure to feed in several small meals throughout the day. You might try adding rice bran to his diet. Put weight on my girl pretty well.
> 
> Edit: Make sure he is free from worms. He doesn't appear to have a worm problem but you can't always tell from looking.


Actually.. to interject... Safechoice made my horse crazy hyped up. I had to take him off of it eventually.. he was more levelheaded when on oats. Which is odd.. but yeah.


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## Centaurheart (Jul 9, 2012)

Nuala said:


> I would maybe add a little grain just until he puts on a bit more weight. If he gets to hot I know my friend uses some powdered calming feed stuff to her horses feed that really helps but I am not sure what it is called I left the barn where she was at. He looks pretty good though all around especially since he does have a nice belly. However I am inclined to believe _part_ of what makes him look underweight is that he is slightly swaybacked, I have noticed that a lot of swaybacked horses seem to look thin on the top.


He actually doesn't look sway backed to me. He just looks out of shape/skinny. If she keeps riding him and giving him some good groceries that topline will muscle right up and he'll look 100% better. That's especially true if you can't see his ribs. Overall I like the way he is put together a lot. I just think hes a work in progress all around. Aren't all horses though?

Don't you wish you could move belly weight around on horses by waving some magic wand and redepositing all their pudge where they need it most? But no... we gotta work work work them, worm them, and then stuff their pie holes.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Ha Sky I have heard that before. I also would not just go and put a calming supplement into his grain to counteract the grain effect, that is just getting a bit ridiculous. I am currently against all complete feeds or processed feeds at the moment, due to my own health issues and subsequent research, and I have switched over to 'raw' foods completely. I feed rice bran and will be adding beet pulp shortly. I am uber paranoid about laminitis and IR and because I know what ingredients cause metabolic issues in humans I have cut that out as much as possible from my mare's diet. 

But if you had to feed a complete feed, safechoice is supposed to be low starch. 

I don't think he really has a belly to him, if you want to see a horse that has a hay belly I am more than happy to attach a picture of my dear Lizzy. She also has the same looking back. It is not sway backed, simply needs muscle and the high withers add to the appearance of a sway back.

All in all, I think this horse just needs some good quality hay with a good amount of protein and some good exercise.


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## 4everiding (Jul 3, 2012)

His weight looks fine, his top line just isn't as nice as it could be, which will come with conditioning. Once he gains a better top line he won't carry so much weight down below and his ribs won't show. You can always try checking out body condition scoring...I would say based on how he looks he's in the "normal, healthy range" but closer to being a little underweight.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

HezaSunnyDudeAPHA said:


> I wouldnt recommend loading up on Hay because that will just give youa hay belly, not healthy nutritious weight gain. I would just use a 12% feed if you wont be dont any hard performance work with him. =] just my opinion though.


Good hay does not give a hay belly. Hay belly is from crap hay that the body cannot digest.

SafeChoice (There is now a senior forumula - purple bag) and Empower are the feeds we use to put weight on. We've never had an issue with horses getting worked on on nerves with the combination. In fact visitors to our facility enjoy how friendly and mannerly our horses are.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Centaurheart said:


> He actually doesn't look sway backed to me. He just looks out of shape/skinny. If she keeps riding him and giving him some good groceries that topline will muscle right up and he'll look 100% better. That's especially true if you can't see his ribs. Overall I like the way he is put together a lot. I just think hes a work in progress all around. Aren't all horses though?
> 
> Don't you wish you could move belly weight around on horses by waving some magic wand and redepositing all their pudge where they need it most? But no... we gotta work work work them, worm them, and then stuff their pie holes.


The horse I was speaking of had to have a grain that tended to hype him up because of age, keep and medical issues. He also had anxieties about stalling gates and trailering which the vet suggested this calmer to be mixed in if it seemed to be to much excitement. Same feed gave her other horse hives because of an underlying allergy. 

I suppose it could be a deep saddle patch and that the neck is tied in low that give the appearance of becoming swaybacked but does look slightly swaybacked to me and does not have the flat back I am use to seeing on Arabs. Yes I agree that top line work will improve the general look however I also see where, in my eyes, this body drops away from his spine. Again that could be top line but that is the same way my sisters 11yo swayback looked. In all he is a handsome horse regardless.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Judging by the expression on his face on the pic, he was rather worried. In your other thread you have a different pic where he looks much sweeter and relaxed and doesn't seem as lean. 
Now, being worried or insecure can cause him to tense up, push out his neck and make the back look swaybacked. 
He could use slightly more weight, but I'd do that, like many mentioned already, with good hay, I'd scratch all grain and give a ration balancer instead. And I'd give him plenty of time, lots of interaction so he gets to know you and trusts you, do mainly groundwork first and you'll see his attitude and weight improve.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

mls said:


> Good hay does not give a hay belly. Hay belly is from crap hay that the body cannot digest.


...Or commonly from grain overload / hind gut acidosis!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Nuala said:


> he is slightly swaybacked,


?? I don't get what looks the least 'swayed' about his back? Looks nice & straight & strong to me, albeit lacking muscle.... and a rather big wither.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

I don't see swayback at all. I see high wither+poor topline. I know, my mare has the same thing.
She's built just like her sire but years of brood mare duty, no real work and not the super-est feed in her older years, she has a lot of muscle to gain back. The bottom is a pic of her sire at four years old. I think you can picture him losing topline and looking a lot like her.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Being able to see his ribs means he is under the ideal body condition score of 5. However, he's not very underweight (I'd say around 4.5, but it can be hard to tell accurately without being able to actually feel the fat pads) As with humans, it's healthier to be a little underweight than a little overweight, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

It does mean that you have to monitor his weight a little more closely, especially going in to winter, as you don't want him getting much skinnier. Rice bran is fantastic for adding a little weight without a horse getting 'hot,' but you're not going to be going through it super fast with this horse, so be sure to get the stabilized (extended shelf life) kind as it goes rancid very quickly otherwise.

ETA- FWIW, I don't think he's swaybacked; he's just undermuscled on his topline ATM.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

verona1016 said:


> Being able to see his ribs means he is under the ideal body condition score of 5.


Yes, the 'condition scorring' charts I've seen do show 'ribby' horses as under 5 but that's not necessarily 'ideal' for all horses.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

You don't think 5 is the ideal body score across all horses?

I realize there's more to the body score than ribbiness (which is why I mention palpating the fat pads on the rest of the body to get a more accurate assesment), and you have to evaluate different areas differently for some horses (i.e. draft horses naturally have a crest, and this doesn't automatically mean their BCS is over 5), but I'm not aware of any horse type that's ideal body condition is overweight, even moderately so.


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## Gala84 (Sep 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone, me and the barnowner have decided he could use some weight and were going to get his teeth checked. Hes gonna be on a schedule of grain mix twice a day and 24/7 access to hay until his weight is back up. 
Thanks for all your help! Maybe Ill post an after pic on this thread!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yes, please
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Gala84 said:


> Thanks everyone, me and the barnowner have decided he could use some weight and were going to get his teeth checked. Hes gonna be on a schedule of grain mix twice a day and 24/7 access to hay until his weight is back up.
> Thanks for all your help! Maybe Ill post an after pic on this thread!


 Be interested to see that. I missed the thread but to me he looks what I would call 'poor' A horse in really fit lean muscled condition can afford to show some ribs but he isnt.
I worm every new horse I buy, its worth getting a fecal egg count and a blood test to confirm types of parasite and any possible encysted ones so you know that you're using the right active chemical
I keep a very close eye on my lot as they are all 'at risk' breeds but they are all well covered. Theres a line between being careful and being paranoid
This is a pic of the polish line (Grojec) arab I had some years ago, he was well covered but in really fit condition as he did a lot of mileage as well as being a show horse


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

"Corporal" (1982-2009, RIP) was a hard keeper (Arab), but he gained weight on good pasture and on Purina Equine Senior (when he was in his 20's.) More hay/pasture would help. I got him in better weight than yours, even though he would never get fat. Yours might be like him. Hope this helps, bc I lost sleep a few times when he lost weight and I couldn't get it back on with grain alone--it was poor quality hay, though I didn't know it at the time.


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## Gala84 (Sep 4, 2012)

*Blaze after 2 weeks on grain,I definitely see some improvement!*

I definitely see some improvement!


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## Coconut Cruncher (Sep 19, 2012)

omg, his magical sway back has disappeared! Who would have known )

He's looking fabulous now. And dopey.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

> An arab will never look like a quarter horse.


Famous last words, Poppy??:lol:

Gala, now he looks like a completely different horse & is very 'well covered', tho looks like perhaps not as much as Jaydee's:lol:. Obviously there are some very different opinions out there, if Jaydee called yours 'poor'. Speaking to a good equine vet or equine nutritionist is probably best, for a more objective view.

It's not good for horses to gain weight too suddenly, so if that change was truly over only 2 weeks, I'd say it's a bit much. Also esp if starchy/grainy feed, best given in at least 3 or more small meals daily, rather than only 1-2 big ones. Not that it looks like he needs any more now.


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## Gala84 (Sep 4, 2012)

Coconut cruncher, what do you mean by "dopey"?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

loosie said:


> Famous last words, Poppy??:lol:
> 
> Gala, now he looks like a completely different horse & is very 'well covered', *tho looks like perhaps not as much as Jaydee's:lol:. *Obviously there are some very different opinions out there, if Jaydee called yours 'poor'. Speaking to a good equine vet or equine nutritionist is probably best, for a more objective view.
> 
> It's not good for horses to gain weight too suddenly, so if that change was truly over only 2 weeks, I'd say it's a bit much. Also esp if starchy/grainy feed, best given in at least 3 or more small meals daily, rather than only 1-2 big ones. Not that it looks like he needs any more now.


 Thank you for the smiley face here *loosie*!!
He was a stallion for 8 years and after he was gelded was certainly a good doer - though for the UK ridden arab classes they have to look well rounded, they tend to be a different model to the lead line paddock art forms. When we came here and visited a top arab show yard our first impression was of how finer built and how much less bone (legs) the US arabians had in comparison to in the UK
This is the best link I can find to a UK ridden arabian class at HOYS (top show)




 
This is a pic of his grandsire Grojec who was a very similar build and was imported into the US


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

This is my German bred PB Arabian. All his grandfathers dud the stallion licensing, most of them against warmbloods.
So one can safely say these Arabians are bred for riding, hence the "more horse".
He us a true 15.hh


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

And one from the front


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> This is my German bred PB Arabian. All his grandfathers dud the stallion licensing, most of them against warmbloods.
> So one can safely say these Arabians are bred for riding, hence the "more horse".
> He us a true 15.hh


 I think your photos got swallowed up by the cyberspace monster - could you try to re-attach them


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Gala84 , has he had his teeth checked? deworm with fenbendazole the double wormer for the encased stongyles, Use good quality hay no matter what type fo hay (grass, timothy,alfalfa etc) Remember that the weight seems to fall off pounds daily, but to gain it seems like an ounce a day !! So give time for whatever you do, but i would check his teeth and deworm first. good luck


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

DHW.. that is a pretty horse. He is built nice no matter what his breed is ! pretty pretty boy.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

that second pic he looks like a quarter cross  he is a cute horse


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Jaydee....must be your computer.....I can see him and so can Stevenson;-)

Stevenson....yes, he's a pretty boy, thank you
Btw, he was 18 when these snapshots were taken.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think it must be my connection here having problems - gremlins in the system. I was able to see your pics later on but they have gone again today!!!
Lovely horse.
It seems to be getting more popular now over here to breed the part arabians by crossing purebreds with warmbloods and the result is a horse with a lot more 'body' - which I prefer myself.
How do they show the ridden arabians in germany? In the UK its all about a long floating stride but I notice over here they seem to like a high knee action and shoe them in a particular way to exaggerate that even more


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Did a little googeling...
IN THE FOCUS | the Arabian Horse Online Photo Agency

That's a pro photographer, so no posting pics here;-)
But you can see how the purebreds and partbreds are shown. Natural!
No robot headset, no tails braided, looking like a stick with overly long hair at the end, no peanut rollers or behind the vertical. Park and English Pleasure is non-existent. 

Btw, my pictured boy is a purebred;-). Have no headshot of him, all on the crashed computer. He has a very short head, wide between the eyes and nice big cheeks


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

As for warmblood crosses...nothing new for me. Every state stud stood a purebred Arabian for improving certain mares.
The above pictured is Gharib, straight Egyptian, used in Marbach state stud and licensed for all warmblood breeds including Trakehner, which is a huge thing since Trakehner association is SUPER picky.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Did a little googeling...
> IN THE FOCUS | the Arabian Horse Online Photo Agency
> 
> That's a pro photographer, so no posting pics here;-)
> ...


Hey now, I braid my arabs tail, but only because otherwise she gets liquid poo in it on trail rides 

And she does a prance rather than a floaty trot.... now this ticks me off. Anyone know how to fix that?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh poppy, I wasn't talking about "normal" braiding
I meant the breed show hunter pleasure thing......they braid all the way to the last vertebra and really tight, then follows a usually overly long tail. With the Arab tail carriage this looks, IMO, downright ridiculous ...IMO, mind you;-)
For her prancing....forward. Make her go forward in a nice fresh , rhythmic trot until she comes down.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It sounds as if the showing in Germany is the same as in the UK. There was a real drive about 25 years ago to give the arabian a better reputation as a riding horse. A ridden arabian in the ring had to work in the same outline as for eg a show hack or show riding horse - on the bit and not star gazing. The result is a much better animal thats actually closer in build to the way the breed used to be.
Arabians have a long history of being used to improve the quality and paces in other breeds - the show pony I had when I was a teenager was barely pony at all - some connemara, some Tb and a lot of arab from her father who's grt grt grt grandsire was Skowronek and the cob mare we have here is half arab - though you would be pushed to see it in her, I dont know which way round it is in her breeding as typical of traditional cobs in the UK she has no registration - he other half was described to us as a 'little Clydesdale type' but they breed the arab in them to get a nicer, smaller head for the show ring, she also has a very fine coat and hardly any winter coat at all
*Poppy -* my arab also spent a lot of time with his mane and tail braided as it was the only way to keep it from breaking off.
Do you ride Izzie on a short rein at all? A lot of people who have 'prancy types' (I have 1) do tend to do that. I have to ride in a very relaxed 'sack of potatos' style to encourage her to relax and then ride her into the bridle with very light legs and hands so she lengthens her neck and then her stride also lengthens. The prancing does become a habit with them.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Haha I was a H/J for 10 years so that is how I braid. And yes it looks ridiculous when she raises that tail up running with the braid but I don't like brushing poo out lol.

I can get the floaty trot in the round pen if I really push her forward but she has to wear bell boots because of front shoes so that makes her step higher too. 
I only ride with a short rein if it's one of those "I'm a race horse" days. Then I have to unless I want to hang on for a run to who knows where. Yesterday when bareback I could get a nice floaty jog on grass but in the deep arena sand it went back to prancy.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Guess we're hijacking the thread;-)
Poppy....the prancing is " im pretty, I feel good and want the world notice me" kind of.
A tight rein in an attempt to get her to slow down has the opposite effect, she hollows her back, head goes even higher and it'll get worse. So, as I said, and as jaydee said, fresh forward, longer rein with slight contact and make her engage her hindend. Once she comes off the high and finds her rhythm you can start collecting her by doing a lot if bending...circles, figure eights, serpentines and lots of changing hands.

Jaydee....Germany also uses Arabs for creating the German Riding Pony. Not so much no more since they have good stock now. In fact, a friend of mine had a Grojec daughter riding pony who produced one champion after the other.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Guess we're hijacking the thread;-)
> Poppy....the prancing is " im pretty, I feel good and want the world notice me" kind of.
> A tight rein in an attempt to get her to slow down has the opposite effect, she hollows her back, head goes even higher and it'll get worse. So, as I said, and as jaydee said, fresh forward, longer rein with slight contact and make her engage her hindend. Once she comes off the high and finds her rhythm you can start collecting her by doing a lot if bending...circles, figure eights, serpentines and lots of changing hands.
> 
> Jaydee....Germany also uses Arabs for creating the German Riding Pony. Not so much no more since they have good stock now. In fact, a friend of mine had a Grojec daughter riding pony who produced one champion after the other.


 Yes we do seem to have hijacked dont we!!!
When my husband & I were buying and selling ponies in the late 80's we sold a lot of really nice ponies to Germany & Holland. Someone used to travel over to the Brightwells sales to buy them - paid very good money too


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

They still sell really well. Now they are youth sized warmbloods, really. Ill see if I can find some


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Here we go. Dornik B is the most successful dressage pony of all times!

www.boenninger-reitpony.de/docs/deckhengste.htm


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Here we go. Dornik B is the most successful dressage pony of all times!
> 
> www.boenninger-reitpony.de/docs/deckhengste.htm


 I had to enter into Google search to find - they look very much like the UK working hunter and ridden hunter ponies, when those classes first started so many of the ponies were lightweight show ponies that could jump but looked like they would break if they did a days hunting on rough muddy ground but the 'type' is now way more robust. I bought my welshC x TB to produce to sell for that market but she went and grew a couple of inches and I ended up keeping her for myself.
I still haven't gotten my head around why they call them 'hunter jumper' classes over here as mostly they dont look anything like hunters as I think of them.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Strange with the link...that's what info my phone gave me.....
Anyway...those are the more refined ones on a Welsh base with some Arab.
Others breed more towards little warmbloods. Like smaller Hannover mare x Welsch B or use TB. Either way, some of them easily out jump a warmblood

TBH, I haven't looked too much into showing hunter jumper here apart from what showed up in an Arab forum I frequent. And some QH h/j
I guess we're still too European ;-)


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

poppy1356 said:


> Her post from yesterday, she is having issues with him spooking and being the *typical high strung arab*


I object your honor, nothing typical about that.

Arabs are smart and notice everything, doesn't make them high strung, just high energy:lol:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

poppy1356 said:


> An arab will never look like a quarter horse.



Second objection your honor, and I introduce into evidence my purebred Arab mare


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Second objection your honor, and I introduce into evidence my purebred Arab mare


 I think if you look back to the pic I posted of my old UK arabian and deserthorsewomans they also had as much body as a quarter horse. They originated from a breed that had the power to carry a man at speed across desert sand but a lot of the very narrow lightweight sindle legged arabians you see around are yet another example for fashion dicating over common sense - people wanting some sort of an overly refined art form to sit in their paddock rather than a horse to ride and do a real job.
My one used to 'imagine' (I hope) things that I couldn't see and stare at them but he was no spookier than all the non arabians I have ridden and was 100% safe on busy roads where a sudden spook would run the risk of you being under a passing truck!!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> I object your honor, nothing typical about that.
> 
> Arabs are smart and notice everything, doesn't make them high strung, just high energy:lol:


Yesssssss, I second that!
I had one who would call me to get the herd in when a thunderstorm was coming, he would rarely act up, but when he did there was ALWAYS a reason, like a lose horse behind us.
My current Ay-rab is nicknamed "cop"... he sees everything and alerts me to call the owner of next doors cows when they have escaped. He knows exactly where their fence is. He has never been there and it is a good 300 yards away.
I learned to listen to them


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## couleehills (Sep 22, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Her post from yesterday, she is having issues with him spooking and being the typical high strung arab


 Ok There is no TYPICAL HIGH STRUNG ARAB. LOL I have had arabs for 30 years started with QHs . They are not high strung.. they are forward moving thinking horses. 
My arabs do not spook... never had. I had one spooking arab out of 21 owned. I see way more QH spook then arabs..
I hate it when people say that... REALLY hate it. gets my back up LOL:twisted:
bck to issue the gelding it in working condition.. was he a distance horse?? If he getting free choice of all the hay he wants and no health issues he fine.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

verona1016 said:


> Being able to see his ribs means he is under the ideal body condition score of 5. However, he's not very underweight (I'd say around 4.5, but it can be hard to tell accurately without being able to actually feel the fat pads) As with humans, it's healthier to be a little underweight than a little overweight, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
> 
> It does mean that you have to monitor his weight a little more closely, especially going in to winter, as you don't want him getting much skinnier. Rice bran is fantastic for adding a little weight without a horse getting 'hot,' but you're not going to be going through it super fast with this horse, so be sure to get the stabilized (extended shelf life) kind as it goes rancid very quickly otherwise.
> 
> ETA- FWIW, I don't think he's swaybacked; he's just undermuscled on his topline ATM.


IF he can gain weight, feed him more. _Seeing_ the ribs is something healthy for a dog. Covered ribs are fat for a dog, healthy for a horse--good rule of thumb.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jaydee said:


> They originated from a breed that had the power to carry a man at speed across desert sand but a lot of the very narrow lightweight sindle legged arabians you see around are yet another example for fashion dicating over common sense


Yes, be interesting to see some old pics of 'real' arabs, as even in Arabia I only recall seeing fine built ones. Mind you, the typically light ones I know in the endurance scene don't seem to have a problem carrying men at speed & doing 'real work'.:lol: That is, some well built, but not overly 'padded' like they like judges seem to like in shows. There is one line I'm familiar with that are heavier here in Oz & that's Crabbet.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Holy hell people I own an Arab. I was just simply and very quickly telling others that she was having troubles handling the guy. Jeesh calm down. 

Second, all those pics of larger Arabs still don't look like a quarter horse. They don't have the hips as wide as a house and they have more refined heads. 

And for the record there's always a reason for them to be hyper, alert whatever you want to call it but its not always a legit reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

loosie said:


> Yes, be interesting to see some old pics of 'real' arabs, as even in Arabia I only recall seeing fine built ones. Mind you, the typically light ones I know in the endurance scene don't seem to have a problem carrying men at speed & doing 'real work'.:lol: That is, some well built, but not overly 'padded' like they like judges seem to like in shows. There is one line I'm familiar with that are heavier here in Oz & that's Crabbet.


 The Crabbet breeding has dominated the arab scene in the UK for many years and the endurance horses over there are mostly pretty sturdy animals with good bone - they obviously look lean because they have to be super fit and muscled for what they do but I've seen arabs with the most exquisite heads and legs like matchsticks. The showring horses are well covered as it makes for a more imposing animal but they still have to be able to do a long sweeping trot, collected canter several circuits of the ring on each rein all together, then again for the individual show and again when the judges ride them plus a gallop is often asked for. A horse that isn't willing - needs to be given anything more than a touch of the leg to move isn't going to get placed.
There are lots of old pics on the All Breeds Pedigree website - amazing how many different types there are, some look almost like cobs and some like TB's. 
Should be a few pics attached here plus one of a modern stallion of the type that I call an 'art form arab. I would imagine that these being so refined might well be more like the high strung arabian that *Poppy* has in mind


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I don't think my arab looks like the modern day arab here. She does not have a very refined face with tiny features. She is far from that art form body. But yet she is as high strung as a hot breed should be. Being high strung does not go hand in hand with calling them crazy. They were bred to be distance horses, a calm docile breed will not have the energy to go the distance needed. Arabs should be high strung. My girl has to be allowed to be ridden at atleast a hand gallop every other day or her energy is just to much. She needs a job and work, as do most other arabs. They are thinking breed.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> I don't think my arab looks like the modern day arab here. She does not have a very refined face with tiny features. She is far from that art form body. But yet she is as high strung as a hot breed should be. Being high strung does not go hand in hand with calling them crazy. They were bred to be distance horses, a calm docile breed will not have the energy to go the distance needed. Arabs should be high strung. My girl has to be allowed to be ridden at atleast a hand gallop every other day or her energy is just to much. She needs a job and work, as do most other arabs. They are thinking breed.


 I dont know if you have studied the arabian breed very much but they are broken down into very distinct strains and those have been broken down into 3 - kehilan (masculine), seglawi (feminine) & muniqi (speed) These strains were often mixed together to get a more average type of horse but when there is a demand for a certain type such as for racing and endurance they have concentrated on one strain only which is why you have a horse that is the way she is
The arab I had was aimed at the all round ridden market and all the produce he sired were very level headed - I also had a mare for a year that was the same. They rode no different to any non arabian because that was they way they had to be to suit the demand for a horse that had the lovely characteristics and intelligence without the extremes of energy and high strung attitude that was making them unpopular with most people
Lizzie is very lucky that she has found an owner who loves her for what she is


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

poppy1356 said:


> Holy hell people I own an Arab. I was just simply and very quickly telling others that she was having troubles handling the guy. Jeesh calm down.
> 
> Second, all those pics of larger Arabs still don't look like a quarter horse. They don't have the hips as wide as a house and they have more refined heads.
> 
> ...


 Nobody was attacking you, by all means. 

Of course Arabs are not built like QH with the huge hip and the Schwarzenegger muscling. They're not supposed to. But if you look t my bay...I could get two hands down between his frontlegs side by side whereas only one fits on my QH mare. She is wider but it's muscle, not bone structure.

And for being hyper and highstrung...a lot of that is handling. Arabs don't tolerate certain kinds of treatment too well. They are highly alert to their surroundings and the mood of their handler.
I personally prefer this over a braindead push button horse.

You got your Lizzie out of a bad situation and with a past and she is your first Arab. I bet once you learn more about her you'll see the breed in general with different eyes.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Lizzy can be hyper but she can also be very very calm. Depends on her mood. I can usually tell how she's feeling as soon as I arrive before I even get to her. She has been ridden by a 7 year old and absolutely adores kids, but left to long she will take advantage of someone with less experience. 

I personally much prefer this over a pokey horse anyday. She keeps up with me walking and isn't dragging behind. She has rather spoiled me with her nice fast walk and always willing to go attitude. I'm not saying anything bad about this breed, their willingness to work and move is what makes them appealing to me. If I found an arab that never wanted to go I'm not so sure I would like it.

So far the only remaining constant fear she has that I can't work through is the fear of rocks, large rocks that don't move. She would rather charge and trample any animal instead of run from it.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

For the OP's horse...the first pic she posted horse looks all tense and worried. Newest pic...he has changed his expression big time! 

As for high strung vs calm and collected.....I have an Arab gelding and a QH mare. If he objects to something he runs away....maybe 10', I call him and he comes right back whereas she can't be stopped at all and has to be haltered to do what I intended to do.

My very first Arab spooked, in place, twice....in 23 years....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

poppy1356 said:


> Lizzy can be hyper but she can also be very very calm. Depends on her mood. I can usually tell how she's feeling as soon as I arrive before I even get to her. She has been ridden by a 7 year old and absolutely adores kids, but left to long she will take advantage of someone with less experience.
> 
> I personally much prefer this over a pokey horse anyday. She keeps up with me walking and isn't dragging behind. She has rather spoiled me with her nice fast walk and always willing to go attitude. I'm not saying anything bad about this breed, their willingness to work and move is what makes them appealing to me. If I found an arab that never wanted to go I'm not so sure I would like it.
> 
> So far the only remaining constant fear she has that I can't work through is the fear of rocks, large rocks that don't move. She would rather charge and trample any animal instead of run from it.


There ya go 

With the rocks....will she go up to it? I found if you let them go to it in their own time and they touch it they're usually okay with it then.


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## Gala84 (Sep 4, 2012)

Not hi-jacking, just lots of information!
Blaze is definitely NOT going to be the stocky type of Arab, but its still going to be a process getting him to gain, he did have worms, and his teeth need to be floated(just had them checked) So I have that figured out.
As for my first post "Desperately seeking advice for my horse situation" It was simply me being a scared new horse owner(not to mention first time Arabian owner) as lots of people told me!
Me and Blaze have come soooo far in only a couple weeks! I had to learn his personality really quick and he mine. After a few times out he learned he couldnt run home, and that was it. Ive learned that his quick stride and his ears sticking straight forward and always looking around dont mean hes about to bolt, thats just an Arabian!! They are VERY alert and I have grown to like that! Especially with all the bears out where I ride. Like someone else said he also neeeeds to have the oppurtunity to RUN, because he just has so much energy to expend. I couldnt believe it when I brought him on a 4 1/2 mile ride and we RARELY slowed to a walk. (Only the last stretch home) When we got home he wasnt even sweaty!?!?! Could definitely do some endurance! Oh and yesterday we did some barrels for fun and after 1 time he started to understand and I swear I could hear the wheels turning!! By the 4th time he was trotting around them with me hardly doing a thing! I just couldnt believe how SMART he is!!
So yeah, I just have alot to learn, so keep the discussion going by all means!!


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## Gala84 (Sep 4, 2012)

Oh and yes I just couldnt agree more, almost my whole life I have ridden slowpokes...boring! Arabs are definitely more my style, I know that now.

As for the 2 pics, isnt the difference amazing! Im not talking about the weight necessarily... but that first one we were both nervous and scared, and the last one was after we knew each other better and had a very long fast ride! (hence the "dopey" look)


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Good for you, they are big thinkers.

And no Lizzy will always hate rocks. She will do her snort and blow and go all the way around it, might even touch it but she will not like it. We are talking those rocks that are like mini boulders, they eat horses. We have gone over this process at least 20 times, she just hates the things. I have given up and let her do her thing. Really it's just a leap sideways about 2 feet and keeps on going, like nothing happened. 

She has walked on pop cans, plastic bags, wrapping paper, all out on the trail or by the road and she doesn't care. 

Now yesterday bareback she decided she just had to run as fast as she could go in the arena, it was not really fun, but luckily she responds to a light spur push to turn so I could just hold on for dear life. And then after her little scene some kids were watching and she put her head down for them to pet her.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Gala84 said:


> Not hi-jacking, just lots of information!
> Blaze is definitely NOT going to be the stocky type of Arab, but its still going to be a process getting him to gain, he did have worms, and his teeth need to be floated(just had them checked) So I have that figured out.
> As for my first post "Desperately seeking advice for my horse situation" It was simply me being a scared new horse owner(not to mention first time Arabian owner) as lots of people told me!
> Me and Blaze have come soooo far in only a couple weeks! I had to learn his personality really quick and he mine. After a few times out he learned he couldnt run home, and that was it. Ive learned that his quick stride and his ears sticking straight forward and always looking around dont mean hes about to bolt, thats just an Arabian!! They are VERY alert and I have grown to like that! Especially with all the bears out where I ride. Like someone else said he also neeeeds to have the oppurtunity to RUN, because he just has so much energy to expend. I couldnt believe it when I brought him on a 4 1/2 mile ride and we RARELY slowed to a walk. (Only the last stretch home) When we got home he wasnt even sweaty!?!?! Could definitely do some endurance! Oh and yesterday we did some barrels for fun and after 1 time he started to understand and I swear I could hear the wheels turning!! By the 4th time he was trotting around them with me hardly doing a thing! I just couldnt believe how SMART he is!!
> So yeah, I just have alot to learn, so keep the discussion going by all means!!


Yeahhhh
I remember very well when I boarded my horses at a TB breeder. He had a long pasture along a creek, about a mile and a half. He suggested to put my youngsters, the bay I posted above and his half Arab buddy, together with his colts on this pasture. They all ran down to the end and back. The TB's stopped right there, my boys went three more times. When they finally stopped the BO mumbled....darn Arabs.....have you ever thought about race training?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You would stand no chance at all in the UK show ring when the judge rode your horse and she had to kick it to make it 'go'. They are supposed to be willing and energetic. A show ring horse in the UK has to sparkle whatever breed it is. Dead leg plugs are a 'no go'!!!
What actually did surprise me was when I tried several arab x saddlebreds (and one Hackney x arab) a few years ago when we first moved to the US and had lessons on one of them for a few months with a view to buying it was how lazy they were and how much energy it took on my part to get them going. Not what I was used to or what I expected.
I have a feeling that the huge quarters on these quarter horses is one of those things thats been bred for over the years as a 'feature' rather than what was original to the breed.
*OP* Good luck with your progress. I find with horses that though there is always some compromise (unless you do want a robot) that they eventually become what you expect of them.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You know....the "huge quarters "....remind me if something....years ago in Germany I was inquiring about QH stallions for breeding to Arabian mares to produce Quarabs. I had called several smaller stallion owners who were mostly willing. The last call was a big show stable, mostly reining. The owner first said no...then she said.that it might do the Arab breed good to be crossed with a decent QH, since Arabs are crap. The one thing what came to my mind, and I said it, too was....Ma'am, if it wasn't for the crappy Arabs you'd be doing your sliding stops and spins on a draft horse......
Wonder why she hung up on me ;-)

The big quarters, I noticed, are mainly seen in the halter lines. Working horses are a bit more in proportion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> You know....the "huge quarters "....remind me if something....years ago in Germany I was inquiring about QH stallions for breeding to Arabian mares to produce Quarabs. I had called several smaller stallion owners who were mostly willing. The last call was a big show stable, mostly reining. The owner first said no...then she said.that it might do the Arab breed good to be crossed with a decent QH, since Arabs are crap. The one thing what came to my mind, and I said it, too was....Ma'am, if it wasn't for the crappy Arabs you'd be doing your sliding stops and spins on a draft horse......
> Wonder why she hung up on me ;-)
> 
> The big quarters, I noticed, are mainly seen in the halter lines. Working horses are a bit more in proportion.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I wondered as when I was living in Kent (UK) a long time ago we had a farrier who had moved there from the US (marriage thing) and he had brought his quarter horse with him. I rode her a few times and she was lovely but did not have the huge quarters that I'm seeing in a lot of horses here
When I bought Looby I tried a quarter horse that had a head that could have come straight off an arab - unfortunately he needed dynamite up his butt to get him moving!!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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