# A stallion for Willow?



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

****IMPORTANT NOTE****​
This is purely a theoretical thread, at present, Willow has years of work to do before I would even consider breeding her, and then only of she has some success only saddle.
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So having got the disclaimer out of the way....

IF* IF *I was choosing to breed Willow, I would be looking to add a little height, and certainly some more bone. The foal would be aimed towards dressage, so needs to be athletic.

Willow is 15.2 hh and is Saddlebred x Arab, has a lovely action, a great attitude, to work that is, in other parts of her life she is a *****, but I love her anyway.

Where would you start looking to find a stallion who could be a good match?


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Personally, if you are REALLY wanting to breed her, don't wait. It is healthier for mares to breed while young, and can be very risky to wait until she is in her teens.
I would breed either SB or Arab, like with like.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

You can register 3/4 arabians can't you? I would go with a proven arabian stallion that has shown dressage and won.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

She is only 7, so she has plenty of time, and she will not be bred if she can't achieve something, I am not at all sure I want to put another foal on the ground, I was just wondering which way I would go with her.

I certainly wouldn't go back to Arab or Saddle bred with her, they wouldn't add what I want, but at the same time would be scared to go to much towards a traditional Warmblood type, because of the differences.

I was wondering if a solid built Andi would be close enough in type, but still add some bone and height to the mix.


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

I like him. 

Pinto Saddlebred Stallion


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

If I were you, I would consult with breeders here and ask about her age. I've heard too many stories of mare death, and mare/foal death bc mares do not always deliver well, like cattle and other animals. I first heard these stories when I took a Horse Health care class with my Vet, who is a SB breeder, so I'm not passing on rumors. You increase the odds of problems by waiting. I know that many people think they are following a system, like in the race horse industry. Remember Zenyatta? She was bred as a 4yo and lost her 1st foal. Her 2nd foal, a stud colt, survived. Her FB page in on my newsfeed.
Still, I'm not a breeder, but many HF here do breed. Ask their opinions. =D


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> I was wondering if a solid built Andi would be close enough in type, but still add some bone and height to the mix.


That's really funny cause I was going to pop in and say, just for fun, that my BO breeds and shows Andalusians in dressage and her stallions are absolutely gorgeous. One of her breeding stallions, Pan, throws tall babies and she's hoping he'll be her first GP horse. I think he's a bay-based grey...think, because I've only seen him as a 'white'.

Depending on what you consider 'proven' (I've never gone to any fancier shows with them, so idk)...we never come home with worse than a second place ribbon. We, as in the black stallion she has...Piconero III. He's the one I ride (not in dressage shows yet...I'm reaaaalllly green). He's a bit on the smallish side though...maybe upper 15s? His 5 year old son is more in the 16s though.

We also have Pan's yearling son, Flamenco, who my BO will have available for breeding around 2016 if I remember correctly. He's going to be a tall looker, that's for sure. He is definitely bay-based grey, he's in that dark rose-steel greying stage and he's gorgeous. I love him.

But really all that jabber was just for fun...I think we're a bit too far away (I'm fairly sure she only does live cover). I'm obviously very taken by these horses. If not any of ours, a good solid Andalusian would probably make a wonderful foal in combination with your mare.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

ladygodiva1228 said:


> I like him.
> 
> Pinto Saddlebred Stallion


I don't. He's far too slightly built, and besides that GH said NO Saddlebreds.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Adressing question of age,For breeding I like to see mare having been bred before 10yrs old.Primary reason is that Fertility declines with age,so want to work with better odds for a successful pregnancy. Mares that are Broodmares by career generally have easier time with conception & birth,staying perpetually pregnant their body's seem more fine tuned. Maiden mares you don't know how they are going to be so if you really are wanting to breed your mare for at least one offspring from them wisest to do it in their prime years.:wink: For Stallion choice going the Andy route is probably the best cross for what your wanting to add bone & substance.This cross on Arabs is pretty common & has yielded good results,so going with a more proven type cross is wisest


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

And andalusian might work, but please please _please_ make sure they they have complimenting body types xD

Our farm 'neighbor' has an Andalusian x arabian stallion. Some of you guys might remember him from a few years ago. He's a pretty color but thats about all he has going for him...looks like someone took an arabian's butt and put it on a draft horse  ofcourse it doesnt help that he has a backwards neck. Ick. Crazy thing is that I've seen both his dam and sire. His sire isn't fantastic but is a well built grey arabian. Mom is a beautiful andalusian mare who's only fault is maybe being a bit cowhocked. Together though? Didn't work out so well.

Ofcourse I have no idea how you would figure out what would come from what horse to get the correctly built arabian x andi, I'm no genetic expert, or even breeding expert. Heck, I'm only a blabbering expert but hey! I can atleast show you a picture of this stallion, can't I? hehe




























I don't know...MAYBE he would have looked less awkward if he was gelded and didn't get all cresty, and was reconditioned like a normal horse but I'm just not too sure...

I know you said no arabians, but what about one of those nice sport horse arabian stallions? They've got some very good bone and a lot that I've seen are 16hh+.


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

Speed Racer, I was posting at the same time as GH and did not see she said NO Saddlebreds.

As for him having a slight build the pictures do him no justice. 
He is a big boy as was his father. 
Some Saddlebreds do have substance to them.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Why not buy a foal?

You are taking an Arab/Saddlebred and want to breed it to something completely different. This means there will be no registering of said foal which reduces it to a Craigslist horse ad value from the get go. You may not *plan* on ever selling said foal but things change, life throws curve balls and then what? 

I have zero intentions on ever selling or re-homing my horse but should I ever HAVE to, I know that I can find him a good home as he has a registered horse with awesome bloodlines.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

ladygodiva1228 said:


> Speed Racer, I was posting at the same time as GH and did not see she said NO Saddlebreds.
> 
> As for him having a slight build the pictures do him no justice.
> He is a big boy as was his father.
> Some Saddlebreds do have substance to them.


So this is your own stallion you're pimping, then? Not cool if that's the case. :? If he's not your stally and you just think he's great, my apologies.

Never said Saddlebreds don't have substance, but whether or not those pictures do him justice they most certainly _do_ show him to be slight. If they're crappy pictures, then they need to be replaced with something that shows him in a better light.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Endiku said:


> And andalusian might work, but please please _please_ make sure they they have complimenting body types xD
> 
> Our farm 'neighbor' has an Andalusian x arabian stallion. Some of you guys might remember him from a few years ago. He's a pretty color but thats about all he has going for him...looks like someone took an arabian's butt and put it on a draft horse  ofcourse it doesnt help that he has a backwards neck. Ick. Crazy thing is that I've seen both his dam and sire. His sire isn't fantastic but is a well built grey arabian. Mom is a beautiful andalusian mare who's only fault is maybe being a bit cowhocked. Together though? Didn't work out so well.
> 
> ...


Poor horse......in different hands with solid training and a farrier job, he'd be COMPLETELY different...........


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

yep...unfortunately this is about the norm in my area. Everyone keeps their horses intact to give them 'spirit' and the bigger and crestier the neck the better >.>


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I personally would stay within the breeds she has, to be able to get the foal registered. 
I would want more slope in the shoulder and subsequently more angle in the pastern. And I would like to se a more refined head, hers looks a little heavy.
Andie only after I'd made sure foal can be registered Hispano Arab. 

There are lighter warmbloods out there, with a portion of TB thrown in, so that might be an option, and with AI getting sperm from overseas, if need be, it shouldn't be a problem. 

There are tall Arabian stallions who give size and bone, and who excell in dressage, something to look into for sure.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Endiku said:


> yep...unfortunately this is about the norm in my area. Everyone keeps their horses intact to give them 'spirit' and the bigger and crestier the neck the better >.>


here too.....poor creatures. I got my two from that sort of people. And I have the urge to "rescue" all of them......breaks my heart seeing a 2year old with this kind of bit, tied for hours, no shade, reins tied to the horn, to "teach headset".....:-(


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I see her connecting well with a warmblood or possibly thoroughbred (there was a nice looking one with good disposition in your general area - his name is "Tip the Clouds"; dark coloured 16 hander; he was for sale so he may have moved on by now).


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

Nope not my stallion would never own one. I like my girls to much and if I did I would never promote or pimp as you say a stallion on a forum, that is what websites and classifieds are for.

I did have the pleasure of meeting his father Color of Fame before he passed and holy cow was he a huge Saddlebred. A very good friend of mine before the economy tanked bred Arabs and National Show Horses. She was looking to bred one of her arab mares to Color of Fame for height as her mare is only 14.3hands.


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## Merlot (Sep 12, 2012)

Very few horses, in my opinion, cross well with the Andalusion. 
I've seen some very ordinary crosses. 
People think they can correct 'faults' by crossing with a horse without the 'faults' but they often end up with a horse who has the faults from both sides.
Come to think of it I am a bit like that...My Mother's cankles and my dads ghastly hair LOL


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

I agree with deserthorsewoman. I'd recommend staying within the breeds that are already in her. Arab or Saddlebred. You would be able to register the foal that way. At lease Arabian you could. I'm not familiar enough with the Standie registry to know what is what with them.

Another thing to consider, throw a totally different breed in there and you have no idea what you are going to get. Some crosses just don't work well and you think "XYZ" would be nice and you get a hot mess of "ABC". I think crossing with a totally different breed is setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. This is just IMHO of course.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Reading with interest but have low battery on cell will jump in later with some thoughts on your tjoughts
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I agree with the others that have said, best not to add any other breeds in there. I think If I were to breed her (which I wouldn't) I would stick with a Saddlebred. First off, I think Saddlebreds can be fantastic dressage horses as see in Harry Callahan




 
I also think the Saddlebred stud would give you some height, a more solid build, drive off the back, lift in the front. 

A few of the stallions I would think about (If I were thinking of it) would include 




The head could relax down, they are spraying fire extinguishers, loud music, people etc... This horse is a nice size too.

This guy is a nice solid horse and great mover too




 
I would love to see more people work dressage with their ASB horses. They would be amazing.


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## Merlot (Sep 12, 2012)

eeek I find the second video very disturbing - that horses action looks unnatural and he has those bloody awful high heels on. CRUEL cruel cruel.
The dressage ASB is gorgeous.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Merlot said:


> eeek I find the second video very disturbing - that horses action looks unnatural and he has those bloody awful high heels on. CRUEL cruel cruel.
> The dressage ASB is gorgeous.


You are not breeding to the shoes, and the movement would be more relaxed without them. ha ha Don't know how cruel those shoes are as they appear to just be a wedge and plate. You might be looking at the quarter boots? Just on the horse to protect from over reaching. The horses are not moving in a relaxed fashion due to the silly practice of "alerting" them with fire extinguishers, rattles, whips with bags etc... 

Having worked for 30 years with this breed, I think they are amazing animals and I would so love to see them in dressage. I have seen several really nice dressage horses that were Saddlebreds. I think some of them could go a lot further with the right riders.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxL_B9t77ro&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here they are again, gaited, non gaited, ridden, driven, and doing dressage.....and with normal shoes


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## Merlot (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh I'm not saying he isn't beautiful - they are stunning looking horses, I just have a real problem with any artificial device that interferes with the natural movement of the horse - things like 'soring' which I know still goes on in some parts of the industry. and no I'm not talking about the quarter boots  His hooves look to me like he is wearing platform shoes. Such a shame to do this to him as he is totally stunning.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

Really if you wanted a registerable foal you would need to be looking at Arabian, Saddlebred, and National Show Horse stallions.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

love love LOVE the black and palomino driven ASBs and the chestnut being ridden by the lady in the dress <3 I've never really appreciated ASBs but those guys have shed some light of my outlook on them! I think I'm going to go steal the pali now...


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

GH is alot like me I love my horses to have a little more bone to them. So when Im looking to breed a lighter boned mare such as a saddlebred cross or a arab I always look to the Irish Draught to add bone without losing the atheletic ability. The ID excells in not only dressage but jumping as well. and I think BRIDON BELFREY is a ideal stallion for Willow JMHO and might I just say YUMMMM lol









TRR


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Endiku said:


> love love LOVE the black and palomino driven ASBs and the chestnut being ridden by the lady in the dress <3 I've never really appreciated ASBs but those guys have shed some light of my outlook on them! I think I'm going to go steal the pali now...


Nononononono.......I speak German, I can steal better;-)
he is gorgeous!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

psh. Alright, what if we team up and steal both the black and the pali? You speak the german, I'll wear pigtails and dress up as the cutsey little girl (4'11) who just wants to pet the horses for a mimut becuz I've wuved them fowever and weawy want one.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Sounds like a plan


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

WOW, what a lot of responses.

For those who say why not buy a foal, well yes, if I really wanted a prospect I would buy, I did say that this was a hypothetical.

Having said that, given the objective of producing a horse to perform, then I would not be concerned about a registry, a horse that has ability will have as much as a safety net as one who is registered. When it comes to breeding registered stock, the most likely breeding here would be to take Emmy here










to visit this guy










Now that would be a registered arab, and I think a nice one.....

I love the idea of an Irish Draft, the right boy might just do the trick, but would have to look at any offspring and see if he had been crossed with anything like Wills and what the result was like.

But again, unless madam turns out to be some sort of superstar, she will not be reproducing, she doesn't strike me as the motherly sort, I think a foal would bore her silly:lol:


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Merlot said:


> Oh I'm not saying he isn't beautiful - they are stunning looking horses, I just have a real problem with any artificial device that interferes with the natural movement of the horse - things like 'soring' which I know still goes on in some parts of the industry. and no I'm not talking about the quarter boots  His hooves look to me like he is wearing platform shoes. Such a shame to do this to him as he is totally stunning.


I think he is just in a keg and wedge. There are some that do a bit more shoe but I think you are thinking of the Tennessee walking horses with the shoes that look like they had a pail nailed on their feet and they are the ones that do the soring, not the Saddlebreds. I have been in the Saddlebred world for over 30 years and have never seen or heard of anyone soring any of them. Of course, there are some trainers better then others but I have never heard of that. I certainly never saw any signs of it and if I had, I would have been the first person to scream abuse and report them. I care much more about the welfare of my horses and any horse for that matter then a trophy. 

I just like those two stallions as I think they would offer a bit more bone to the mare in question and a bit more size and excellent movement. Not as high as in the video with their heads cranked up and the extreme excitement they are forced into there.

Sidenote: I remember about 23 years ago sitting at the Tattersalls Saddlebred auction in KY and watching a bunch of German's bidding on Saddlebreds. I thought "How cool, they are taking America to Germany" and they did. They bought several really nice show horses. Nice to see the video of their expo on the breed. They all appear to be really having fun too which I think is sometimes lacking in the show ring these days. If it isn't fun, why do it, right?


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

How about Borealis? He's a dressage ASB.









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You're right, Inga. They're having fun. The older, bearded gentleman is pretty famous in the gaited world in Germany. He has no prejudice whatsoever, has and rides and trains all, from Icelandic to Saddlebred, Walkers, Mangalarga Marchadores, all. In fact, he breeds Mangalargas to Icelandics to create a bigger sturdier horse for the taller and heavier folks out there, called Aegidienberger. Not mass breeding and marketing, rather just a few a year. 
There are allbreed gaited shows and people participate for fun rather than competition.


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## Merlot (Sep 12, 2012)

Thanks for easing my mind n that one Inga


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

I would go with a quarter horse stud, that way they have a little height, much more bone and can be good at a lot of things.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

kassierae said:


> How about Borealis? He's a dressage ASB.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mmm, don't like his neck, especially through the throatlash area


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Breezy2011 said:


> I would go with a quarter horse stud, that way they have a little height, much more bone and can be good at a lot of things.


Most Quarter Horses I've seen tend to be under 16hh. I'm not quite sure a QH would be a good pick to add height.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

The OP knows I have liked this mare, but I don't think a QH would add what the owner seeks. However, I do think she should consider Saddlebreds and Irish Drafts. If she were mine, these are the breeds I would be looking into. 

Having owned Saddlebreds, I always rather think, they have so often been overlooked by many in the horse world. They do make terrific dressage horses and take to jumping readily. If I were younger and could still ride, there would always be one in my stable. 

Lizzie


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

Wow that one andi x arab.... holy they need to loosen the tie down, and get a new bit....


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

You are right Lizzie, I would not choose a QH for her, nothing against QH's I like them fine, but I don't think that it would give me what I was looking for.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Yes, his neck is thick. But he's proven in the discipline, and thicker like a WB. I never would have known he was an ASB had I not looked. Everywhere else he's very nice. Also, his neck is no thicker than an andalusian's. I honestly don't think your mare would cross well with an andy. Just too much of a type difference for me to take the chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I'd be looking at TB stallions.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't breed, so take my suggestion with a a grain of salt. 
I would think you would want stick with either an Arab or Saddlebred like everyone said. If you are looking for a different breed to cross her with how about a Trakehner. They are a nicely built bigger horse that is very versatile.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

I also don't breed but have you considered a Morgan? They can either be well built or you could find the more Arab-like ones. The Lippitt Morgans would give you that bigger bone that you're looking for and they cross well with the Arabian and Saddlebred breed. The only thing is that you'd exchange good bone for height when it comes to Lippitts. They aren't the tallest horses.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

It seems I am 'Breedist' after all, again I like Morgans, I don't know if I have ever actually met one though, but I wouldn't consider any of the more 'Western' type breeds for an English sports horse.

If I was looking just to add bone and a little beef to her, and wanted to breed a western type horse I would be looking in that direction.

TB, probably not, I would consider crossing Emmy with a TB, she may give you a really nice AngloArab but not for Willow.

Trakhener, possibly, not a breed I know much about, I would have to do some research before adding that possibility to the short list.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> She is only 7, so she has plenty of time, and she will not be bred if she can't achieve something, I am not at all sure I want to put another foal on the ground, I was just wondering which way I would go with her.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't go back to Arab or Saddle bred with her, they wouldn't add what I want, but at the same time would be scared to go to much towards a traditional Warmblood type, because of the differences.
> 
> I was wondering if a solid built Andi would be close enough in type, but still add some bone and height to the mix.


 That is the same thinking I had also. For dressage a saddlebred would be the last choice and arab wouldn't be far behind. What about Andalusian?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

churumbeque said:


> That is the same thinking I had also. For dressage a saddlebred would be the last choice and arab wouldn't be far behind. What about Andalusian?


LOL, nothing wrong with a nice Arab in dressage:shock: says the girl who owns 2 pure and one cross.

Andalusian would be on my short list, but I see some folk on here not liking that thought.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

For dressage a saddlebred would be the last choice and arab wouldn't be far behind.

Why? 

Lizzie


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

Have you thought about a freisian? I know people will say no no, but there are some nice saddlebred/ freisians. Its tough to figure out a good cross when the mare is already a cross. If i had a NSH and wanted to breed her me personally would go with either a saddlebred, arab, freisian, morgan, or cheval canadien. But again that is just me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Someone sent me a Freisian Calender the other day, and I have been drooling over the pics ever since, there are some beautiful, beautiful horses there, but no, no I wouldn't cross her with one. Though they are beautiful I can't see a Freisian input giving me what I need.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't know what Morgan's you've seen, GH, but I've never met a western one, lol. Every one I've seen/met have all been jumpers and dressage mounts. And in either case, they certainly aren't a "western" breed like the Paint or QH.

Morgan's seem to come in two types. The shorter, stockier type, and the taller, lankier type [picture something between a TB and a WB]. The latter is my favorite. I think the right Morgan stud would give you what you're looking for.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

Morgans are meant to be a jack-of-all trade horse breed. They are mostly used for English events, but can easily be trained to do anything. More often than not though you'll see them in English events.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> I don't know what Morgan's you've seen, GH, but I've never met a western one, lol.


I don't know if I have ever seen one in the flesh, not a breed I have researched much to be honest.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> I don't know if I have ever seen one in the flesh, not a breed I have researched much to be honest.


I would do that, they really are a great breed. My personal favorite, lol. One of the best horses I've ever ridden was a tall Morgan gelding, his owner was doing 3rd level with him quite successfully. He was calm, 16.1, and a wonderful mover.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Merlot- honestly, they need to not only loose the bit, and tiedown, but also the saddle, the long toes, the undermuscling, the horse's balls, and the bridle  he was merely a representation of an andalusian x arabian, not a stud prospect though he was a stud... 

GH, take my opinions on andi/arabs with a grain of salt. I know very little about breeding. Its just that andalusians are crossed by the hispanics with just about everything around here, and IMO the andi arab is one of the worst crosses I've seen. Ofcourse, they arent very careful about their breeding either so maybe if you bred two very symmetrical horses with similar body types you would get an alright baby?

I did find a stallion who threw some fairly nice offspring from the looks of it (all arabian crosses on this page, by Saphiro) though, if you're interested. They look nothing like the Andi crosses in my area. I was reading an old board post on another site though, about how andi x arabian is really a huge gamble though. Two or three out of ten turn out looking ok, less than that really excell. However, those few are absolutely striking with beautiful knee action and flowing conformation. Common faults in the cross is a face that is too long with a prominent ridge to the nose, delicate arab feet on a large body, wonky necks, and steep croups with low set tails dispite the norm for both andis and arabians. Someone mentioned that a running trait seemed to be that they are hard to fit for saddles. One breeder suggested that if you are going to breed Andis to Arabs, the best mixes are often from Arabian stallions and andalusian mares. I dont know if thats true or not.

Saphiro's children- (I'm not a fan of his coloring but...)
Saphiro x Arabian Offspring | JC Andalusians


I'll make no comment on the morgans because I rode a LOVELY little black morgan mare back a year or so ago, but she was very obviously the stocky, short type xD she was only about 13hh!


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> I don't. He's far too slightly built, and besides that GH said NO Saddlebreds.


I agree....he has absolutely no bone, and very long and upright pasterns.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

riccil0ve said:


> I don't know what Morgan's you've seen, GH, but I've never met a western one, lol. Every one I've seen/met have all been jumpers and dressage mounts. And in either case, they certainly aren't a "western" breed like the Paint or QH.
> 
> Morgan's seem to come in two types. The shorter, stockier type, and the taller, lankier type [picture something between a TB and a WB]. The latter is my favorite. I think the right Morgan stud would give you what you're looking for.


I've seen TONS of western Morgans!!! Have you ever watched or been to a Morgan show??


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

No. I've only seen the saddle seat or whatever and driving. Which is not the type of Morgan I would suggest.

Morgan's are versatile and certainly can do western events, but it's not common here. They are far more an English breed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

*raises hand for the western Morgans* ... It's all I ever saw growing up . But I also favor the older style Morgans like the original horses Justin Morgan developed. Which maybe why I see them more western *shrugs*


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I love her. Can't wait to see her possible 'little one'


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Meh, maybe I am far more snotty than I realized but I would not think of TBs, Arab's, QHs or ASBs as dressage horses. All are perfectly nice horses, but on the whole, not known for their dressage ability. 

Dressage isn't my thing so I am not familiar with the stallion market, but if I were you GH I'd be looking for a proven dressage warmblood.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Chrishan Park Arabians, Training, Breeding Chris and Shan Wilson

Here's an anything but dainty pure Arab. I like this guy a lot, love his movement. The way the dressage arena likes big movers, this is the type of horse I'd look at. 

American Saddlebred Stallions, Callaway's Main Man, CH Call Me Ringo, Ocean's Roar, Seaforth's Billion Heir, Sir William Robert, Such A Salesman, Thundergun, Undulata's Nutcracker, Forewood Commander, breeding, sales, foals, Simpsonville Kentucky

And here's the Saddlebred I'd go to for a big mover. This guy is something else when you see him move and his babies tend to have his movement as well. 

I personally would go back to an Arab because the Half Arab is a perenially popular horse, it can be registered, and you have a market. I bred my 3/4 Saddlebred mare back to a Saddlebred stallion because I was trying to set a homozygous pattern but IMO the 1/2 Saddlebred registry is ....not worth what it costs to register the foal. I reg'd the foal as a Pinto and left it at that. He was eligible for NSH, Pinto and 1/2 Saddlebred. Next time I breed her I'll probably go to an Arabian for 1/2 Arab and Pinto registry. 

When I'm looking for a horse to buy, the second I get into a mish mash, I keep on looking. And you can say that you're breeding just for yourself but stuff happens and it's always best to consider sales ability. Stud fees and costs of getting the mare pregnant are not going down, so it's important to try to make sure you can recoup some of your costs.


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

I would look at a German warmblood. Good size and suitable for dressage. 

Sir Donnerhall is a nice stallion. This clip starts with showing him in eventing, in the end they show off his gaits. 

Sir Donnerhall - Elite Stallions - YouTube


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## sarahfongsilva (Sep 28, 2012)

Since you are looking to add more bone and height, and are looking for an athletic type horse with fantastic movement, you really can't go wrong with a warmblood. 

I am by no means a breeder or expert, just my opinion.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> For dressage a saddlebred would be the last choice and arab wouldn't be far behind.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Lizzie


 I just personally do not like arabs and the saddlebreds I am most familiar with are so up right and hollowed out.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

StellaIW said:


> I would look at a German warmblood. Good size and suitable for dressage.
> 
> Sir Donnerhall is a nice stallion. This clip starts with showing him in eventing, in the end they show off his gaits.
> 
> Sir Donnerhall - Elite Stallions - YouTube


NICE, and right there is the rub..

He is gorgeous, and I would love to ride him or one of his offspring, but, and it is a big but, you get to the point that he would be wasted on Willow:wink:

Right there would be the kind of defining factor, I love Willow to bits, and I'm hoping that next year we can both start having fun and competing, and hope she will be successful. BUT, when it comes to breeding, what she has is not definable, I love her for her and her quirks. IF I was going to breed from her, out of the suggestions we have had so far, to me something like the Irish Draft makes a lot of sense. We would stand a good chance of adding bone, she may produce a wonderful ladies hunter from her, 1000's of miles away from a ladies hunter market.

Those who have said don't breed her have it right, she at present, has not a lot to add to the gene pool. Her full brother is a successful dressgae horse though, so she may be a solid lower level mount for me. 

Just looking at the math, say I found a stallion that I liked, it is quite possible to drop $2000 on a breeding fee. Of course that is just the start, being out here in the wilds I would be relying on our local vet, and having to cart Willow in and out of town, and relying on transport, customs etc, I can quite see how that cost could double before she actually was safe in foal. One very quick search has found me a nice little Warmblood yearling, only 350 miles from here, and for $3500, OBO.

So If I actually bred Willow in the spring she would foal out in 2014, so by 2018 I would have a 4 year old to start.

If spent the money on a yearling, he would be under saddle by 2015, and competing seriously by 2018.

Makes you wonder why anyone would bother doesn't it?


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> NICE, and right there is the rub..
> 
> He is gorgeous, and I would love to ride him or one of his offspring, but, and it is a big but, you get to the point that he would be wasted on Willow:wink:
> 
> ...


This is a point I have tried to make to so many people who insist on breeding their horses. There are so many out there to chose from and you will likely spend a lot less money on the purchase price then the whole breeding and waiting for the foal to grow to riding age. It just doesn't make sense for many people to breed, yet they do it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I do kind of get "wanting a little bit of my mare" kind of attitude, lets face it I both bred Ace, and bought another of her daughters, because that mare has something special, and the first time I met Emmy I cried, because she has that something as well. It is difficult to describe, but they are nicely bred mares, and have kind of Arab aura, that makes them so nice to live with. They are not pushovers by any means, but they are really workable, and easy to live with.

Willow, well as I have said what makes her special is that spark, the fact that you have to keep earning her respect, and feeling grateful when she actually responds to you in a meaningful way. I love her bitchiness, her energy, as well as her movement and ability. I believe she is more of an individual, and I don't think that would be reproduced. As I said before I also happen to think that she would probably be a terrible mother, not her kind of thing.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You're right on. So, buying what you want now and breeding her to something within her breed, to improve her, and be marketable if need be, would make more sense, IMO. Good, flashy NSH's sell really well, still.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

We will see, if all things remain equal I wouldn't want to even consider breeding from her until 2014, for a 2015 foal, but then there is yet another factor to throw in there.

We have to face it that time moves on, I am top side of 50 now, we are getting to the stage where a forever horse may mean my forever rather than theirs, if you see what I mean. Also I don't know how many more youngstars (why I like that typo, I'm leaving it) I want to start.

I have two mares to bring back this year, Emmy and Wills are both broke, but have issues to work through, and Ben is a big baby that is starting at the beginning. Hopefully I will get them all going sweetly next year, as well as starting to do ground training with little Angel. I honestly don't know if I will want to do another baby.

At the same time, doing all the ground work on a little one is good fun, and and very rewarding, and not so taxing on the old bones as trying to ride the stupid out of a baby, be that buck, bolt or just plain can't put one foot in front of the other without getting into trouble.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Im in the same boat, appreciating a seasoned horse now;-)
Breeding and giving a baby a good start can be done later on, on crutches, so to speak....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Now, having said all that, I stumble over this one....
Sir Gregory - (Sir Donnerhall x Don Gregory x Picasso) - 2005 Liver Chestnut Oldenburg Stallion - Dreamscape Farm, Langley, BC, Canada


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

And I have found this :shock::shock:

'Eclipse' at Warmbloods-For-Sale.com


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Beautiful boy!

Pick him and spam us with updates!!


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Now, having said all that, I stumble over this one....
> Sir Gregory - (Sir Donnerhall x Don Gregory x Picasso) - 2005 Liver Chestnut Oldenburg Stallion - Dreamscape Farm, Langley, BC, Canada


Sir Donnerhalls babies sure are fine looking horses.  I actually thought about breeding my mare to Sir Donnerhall, but I choose a german riding pony instead.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yup, agree with MsBHavin;-)


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

GH I was thinking today ( which shocks me sometimes ) about other breeds that add what you want. have you looked into the Cleveland Bays? I love that breed 















Just a thought lol 

TRR


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

TimberRidgeRanch said:


> GH I was thinking today ( which shocks me sometimes ) about other breeds that add what you want. have you looked into the Cleveland Bays? I love that breed
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!!! What a stunner!!


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## Merlot (Sep 12, 2012)

I have to put my two cents in here about those arabs at Chrishan park.
I'm sorry but I find those photos of their horses appalling. The movement they show is totally ARTIFICIAL. No Arab (I've ever seen) moves like that naturally. You only have to look at the way their poor feet are trimmed - to me they look like horses that have got that movement through soring. I'm sorry I HAVE to rave on like this but it really upsets me to see horses being forced to live like that.

On the other hand Timberridge, you are right about cleveland bays for dressage - they have the MOST EXQUISITE movement -big and bold and stunning. This one belongs to a friend of mine - I rode her for a while and she was stunning. She's also got a beautiful head and eye.:shock:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Cleveland Bays are awesome, but I believe currently getting close to endangered. If that is true then no out crossing should be done, until they can get the purebred pool to sustainable numbers, with quality animals.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

That schoolmaster gelding sounds absolutely wonderful. He knows what is expected of him, performs it well, is seasoned and sound, has good conformation (so they say atleast) is low maitenence, tall, right in his prime (14, right?) AND reasonably priced. I'll take one to go, please! xD


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Endiku said:


> That schoolmaster gelding sounds absolutely wonderful. He knows what is expected of him, performs it well, is seasoned and sound, has good conformation (so they say atleast) is low maitenence, tall, right in his prime (14, right?) AND reasonably priced. I'll take one to go, please! xD



*SIGH* Ideal sounding isn't he, so now what, I can't take in one unless one goes, so I would have to make a space here.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I believe I have some space in my closet next to Viking


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Lol, if only it was just closet space


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

OOOOOH I LOVE looking at stallions for breeding. Its horse shopping all over again, haha.

Since you want dressage if I were you I'd look toward a Andalusian.

This is what I'd want....

QUALIFIED BLACK IMPORTED PRE (ANDALUSIAN) AT STUD | Equine.com
Barbian PRE Stallion
Fetichin PRE Stallion

I like those ones. Still there are many fish in the sea, I would possibly look at TB too. But that might be what you want, not sure.

I plan on breeding my filly when shes older (only 3 right now). But what I want is in a different ball park, probably leaning towards HUS horses.

Anyways good luck!


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Merlot said:


> I have to put my two cents in here about those arabs at Chrishan park.
> I'm sorry but I find those photos of their horses appalling. The movement they show is totally ARTIFICIAL. No Arab (I've ever seen) moves like that naturally. You only have to look at the way their poor feet are trimmed - to me they look like horses that have got that movement through soring. I'm sorry I HAVE to rave on like this but it really upsets me to see horses being forced to live like that.
> :shock:
> .


 
You do not have to sore a horse to have it move like that. Use of developers for muscling, breeding for a high headed horse and collection will achieve that motion. It IS natural to a Saddlebred (at least a well bred one) but I am with you in that, I miss the Arabian of old. I remember when they used to have a ground covering floating trot that was to die for. They have gotten much larger, longer necked, more upright and honestly, look like Saddlebred wanna be's. IMO 

I can't say without a doubt that it never happens in the Arabian world as I have spent less time at those shows but.. I have never seen any signs of it. I remember when the National Show horse was getting popular and I couldn't help but wonder why? I mean, they started looking more and more like Saddlebreds with the high stepping motion and high head. Sometimes I wonder why people can't just be satisfied. Anyway, sorry for the long winded but... I miss the old Arabians with the chiseled heads, flagging tails and floating motion.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Well you could always send Angel to me.... ;D then I'd have two 9-11 babies!


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