# Jumping Critique



## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

From my most recent horse show...just a few days ago... 

Some of the pictures are a little hard to critique my position, sorry about that... And as for the pictures of us going over the orange and blue oxer I do have my hand off the reins in order to give him a tad bit of encouragement with my crop...those were meant more for critique on my horse rather than I. 

Please critique both my horse and I.

Thanks!!!


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Also here are pictures of us beforehand. 
I gained some very insightful suggestions on my riding on an earlier thread and applied them to my latest horse show.
So these are mainly for a before and after reference.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

:clap: lol. 

Great Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow very very nice. When you used the stick your position wasnt effected at all and most people will not use a stick on the bum over the jump because they know they will not be able to stay with the horse. 

Your horse has a huge jump and you have a great solid position. You should go into some medals.. I think you would clean up.


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks so much!!!! I used to do medals on my other horse LaMia. I don't on him because he doesn't do his right to left lead change very easily. I'm in the process of finding a horse that someone will let me ride in the medals though.


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## Valentina (Jul 27, 2009)

I only notices 2 issues, but your basic position is VERY nice.

#1 - Toes are out. Currently this is OK (this horse during these pictures) but if you were wearing spurs you would inadvertantly be gigging the horse with spurs every time you turned out your toes.  Now in jumping some turnout is acceptable (and several pictures show an acceptable turnout) but in a few it almost appears that the toes are turned out so far that the back of your calk (rather than the side of your calf) is on the horse.

#2 - Creast release. The pictures indicate an advanced rider - so time to modify the creast release to the George Morris "middle of the neck" release. Just a more advanced style, for which you appear ready.  

Overall a very nice style.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

Just curious what level/ height are you at?


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## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Looking great! Totally agree with Valentina! Your horse looks just like my boy! What breed is he?!


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

I agree, toes are out which could lead to a bad postion down the line. Crest release is good for 2ft jumps but do a automatic release (on the sides of the neck) when doing anything higher.

You look great though! you have a nice round back  I hate some of the hunters position.. They arch their backs and stick out their butts LOL

Keep up the good work


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Klassic Superstar said:


> Looking great! Totally agree with Valentina! Your horse looks just like my boy! What breed is he?!



He's a Rhinelander.


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Mckellar said:


> Just curious what level/ height are you at?


These pictures are from the 3'-3'3" and then the 3'3"-3'6". I was supposed to do the 3'6"-3'9", but the ring at this horse show is huge and his energy levels would drop after the 3'6" so we didn't want to push it. I school up to 4' and sometimes higher at home.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I liked your second set of photos much more than your first. Your leg position was far better and you were "laying" on your horse far less. You were not jumping ahead of your horse and allowing your lower leg to slip back as much as the first set. 

The second set were the before????


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> I liked your second set of photos much more than your first. Your leg position was far better and you were "laying" on your horse far less. You were not jumping ahead of your horse and allowing your lower leg to slip back as much as the first set.
> 
> The second set were the before????


Yes, the second set is from before. I was told, and agree, that in the second set my leg was too straight and jammed out in front of me. Maybe it's just the angle that some of the pictures are taken at that makes it seem like my leg is slipping back?? I'm not sure, but I found that by shortening my stirrups a half hole as suggested I was able to stay with him more...


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Guys... Just to clarify on the automatic release... Umm there are grand prix riders who don't use an automatic release and still use a crest release... So I don't feel like I need to be working on that right now especially since I'm still working on my base of support over the larger fences with him. I agree that it softens in the mouth and keeps a constant connection. But I'm not worried about that right now since he's happy and goes around amazing for me.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

I am in love with your horse..Just a powerhouse over the jumps ( great thing! ) . Your doing a great job


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank You!!!!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

JumperGurl said:


> Guys... Just to clarify on the automatic release... Umm there are grand prix riders who don't use an automatic release and still use a crest release... So I don't feel like I need to be working on that right now especially since I'm still working on my base of support over the larger fences with him. I agree that it softens in the mouth and keeps a constant connection. But I'm not worried about that right now since he's happy and goes around amazing for me.



There is a difference between an automatic release and a release that doesn't allow you to rest all of your weight on the horse's neck.

In this photo I have an auto release










In all honesty, when I'm riding aggressively for time I often use a "crest" release. However, I never actually put my hands on the crest. When you do that you make it almost impossible to give the rein if the horse needs it. It also encourages you to use that for balancing your upper body weight. This makes it way too easy to ride way too forward, ahead of your horse. This can really impact the horse's ability to jump.

My "crest" release is always on the SIDES of the horse's neck. Darn close to an auto.


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks!

I know what you mean. But I just want to master my base of support before I begin working on the auto release again which is the correct way of moving myself up to that point.


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

The biggest problem I see is that you're laying on the horse's neck. In a few of the pictures, it also looks like you were leaning to one side and looking at the ground/fence. 

If you want to master your base of support, I'd move down to smaller jumps for a bit and work on keeping a firm, steady base that's off of your horse's neck. 

Otherwise, you seem to be a very solid rider and you're doing pretty good so far! Good luck!


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

^^^^ I've mastered my base of support over the smaller jumps. I just started jumping at this level and as you can see my horse is like a crazy round jumper when the jumps are bigger. Over the smaller fences he does't do this and so I was able to master my base of support with that flatter jump. So I think I just need to get used to his bigger jump and then I will be ok. 

And I agree with the laying on his neck a tad...I believe that goes along with my base of support though...I think anyways. If not then I will definitely work on exercises to fix it. 

And then the looking down at the ground...I'm not sure why I was doing that...I really don't do that at all. So it might've just been a slip up? I'm not sure...but I'll be sure to not do that.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Here's the problem with trying to fix the base before the release. The release is allowing you to prop up your upper body weight, thereby not requiring a solid base to counterbalance your upper body weight. You see, the lower leg IS the counterbalance. Since you don't rely on your lower leg to balance the upper body, it is slipping back.

You need to start weaning yourself of that propping up crest release. It will REQUIRE you to bring that lower leg back up to the girth. The further forward your upper body is, the further forward your lower leg must be to counterbalance the upper body.

Get into your jumping position and hold your arms out like an airplane. Move your lower leg forward until you can maintain that position with the arms out. Then (on a lungeline?) walk, then trot, then canter until that lower leg stays where it needs to be to maintain that position without your hands on the neck.

Then try jumping a grid where you can ride through with no reins. Put your arms out as you jump.

This will help develop that strong, base you are looking for.


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

I hate to jump in again but there is nothing wrong with her position. If anyone watches any big classes her stye is what everyone is trying to do but she doesn't do it in a forced way. Horses who jump like this you cant practice over small jumps bc they don't have that huge jump over them. She is very effective, solid leg, her release is awesome. I think it would be insulting to say go back on the lunge line Ina 2 point. That's just my opinion . I don't know maybe I'm wrong


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## Poneigh (May 25, 2012)

I really liked your suggestions Allison, I have done the jumping with no hands and it helped my leg out a lot as well as my staying up off the neck and using my legs to balance so hopefully it can help the OP too.
Mckellar, I dont want to get in the middle of anything but I think what was meant by going back to the 2 pt on the lunge line was only because it was with no hands, if you have no reins its nice to have someone steering with the lunge line for you so you can just work on your position and dont have to worry about your horse going all over the place! please correct me if im wrong!!
beautiful horse, op!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I'd like to add that you should not be turning your horse while in the middle of the jump. Please wait until the first stride _after_ the jump. ALL jumps should be a straight line. You can practice this with ground poles substituting for a course. You could even borrow somebody else's horse to practice this bc it is a rider fault, NOT a horse fault. You horse is marvelous. He looks very willing and tucks in every photo.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

Your right Poneigh, it is much easier being on a lunge while doing no hands work  Also it is always good to go back to being on a lunge doing no hands work to really strengthen your postion. We should all go back to the basics every now and then, it keeps us sharp


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Corporal said:


> I'd like to add that you should not be turning your horse while in the middle of the jump. Please wait until the first stride _after_ the jump. ALL jumps should be a straight line. You can practice this with ground poles substituting for a course. You could even borrow somebody else's horse to practice this bc it is a rider fault, NOT a horse fault. You horse is marvelous. He looks very willing and tucks in every photo.


I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you on the turning over a jump. It's a jump off, tight turns are necessary for a blue ribbon. Obviously my horse can completely handle it. And it is not a fault at all. I know how to go straight over a fence. Thank you.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

^^ i agree. At this level of jumping telegraphing your next move in the air is fine... especially to remain competitive. 
However, when the jumps get big, you won't get away with it. Although, you don't look like the sort of rider that doesn't already know that.


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

^^^^Thank you. I know that it won't work when I get into the four foot level. That's when I would slice a jump instead though.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Mckellar said:


> I hate to jump in again but there is nothing wrong with her position. If anyone watches any big classes her stye is what everyone is trying to do but she doesn't do it in a forced way. Horses who jump like this you cant practice over small jumps bc they don't have that huge jump over them. She is very effective, solid leg, her release is awesome. I think it would be insulting to say go back on the lunge line Ina 2 point. That's just my opinion . I don't know maybe I'm wrong


I won't get into what you do, or do not, feel is the perfect position. Just because you see people try to perch in the hunter ring doesn't mean that is what you want to do in the jumper ring.

As for thinking it is an insult to go onto a lunge line......let me tell you that olympic level riders will, occasionally, go onto a lunge line to work on their position. My coach would put us on one every month or so. When I rode in a training period with Jack Legoff, all of us went on a lunge. There is no disgrace there and the fact you think so is limiting you.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Corporal said:


> I'd like to add that you should not be turning your horse while in the middle of the jump. Please wait until the first stride _after_ the jump. ALL jumps should be a straight line. You can practice this with ground poles substituting for a course. You could even borrow somebody else's horse to practice this bc it is a rider fault, NOT a horse fault. You horse is marvelous. He looks very willing and tucks in every photo.



Sorry, Corporal, but I will strongly disagree. In the hunter ring....maybe. In the jumper ring you are preparing the turn before you even jump the jump ahead of you. You will angle, adjust to set up the turn and, if it is a REALLY tight turn, you HAVE to turn in the air. One stride after the jump and you have missed the turn.










In this photo I had a mild turn after this jump. Even so, you can see that the horse absolutely knows where he is going when he lands. He will land on the proper lead ready to make that turn in a balanced way.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I am confused as I think your position was much better in the before than after photos. 

In both sets of photos you have your toes out, and I think that's all you need to work on in the before photos. 

In the after photos, your position is nowhere near as good IMO. you are over jumping and coming out of your saddle too far and you are laying on the horses neck. 

I didn't read your other thread, so I don't know what advise you were given - but I would go back to what you were doing before and just work on your toes/heels.


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## JumperGurl (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank you everyone for the advice and suggestions!! I appreciate it.


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## Amberish2002 (May 26, 2012)

Often the best directions come from those who have been to the places we are trying to go.


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