# Confused about discrimination of pintos



## promisethestars (Jan 26, 2011)

Why is it that pintos are often discriminated against and not judged fairly in the hunter division? What are you all's thoughts on this?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I have a friend who is a H/J judge, and I actually asked her about discrimnation.....in general, because I have a draft cross. She really got annoyed and told me there WAS no discrimination, that it was a fact of how they jumped. They don't round as much, etc.....I am not convinced.:?


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## promisethestars (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, it's confusing, because the color of a horse has nothing do do with its abilities :/ I know sooooo many great hunters that are pinto.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I showed an appy for years in hunter shows. When we had a good round we got good ribbons.

It is highly unlikely there is truly discrimination. It is just a good excuse for people to say it was not their fault they did not place as well as they wanted to.

Not getting a ribbon means there were just 8 (or 6 or 10 depending on how many places that show gives) that had a better trip than you. Not that the judge does not like spots/paints/palominos/QHs/or any other breed.

Your horse might simply not be as fancy as the others. Or your horse just did not do as well as the others. 

Some breeds, because of their breed, are starting back a peg. But not because of the judge discriminating but because their breed historically does not move/jump in the preferred hunter fashion.


I have seen it time and time again. Some kid comes out of the ring on a horse that did not get its leads and chipped at half the jumps and it is the judge discriminating because of their horse being a <pick breed>, not because their round was not good enough.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Excellent post, Always.

If your horse isn't pinning, there's obviously something wrong about your round that you're not seeing. I highly doubt that the judges are prejudiced against your particular horse just because it has spots. :?

Instead of whingeing about how 'unfair' and 'discriminating' the judges are, maybe you should have someone video your rounds, so you can see for yourself why you didn't place as high as you think you deserved.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Just at observation, at the risk of being flamed...and one of the reasons i asked my friend this question. 
If there is no discrimination, why does it seem (my personal observation and impression) that if you go to some of the A hunter shows the vast majority of the hunters are bays, typically with minimal white? Just a question, and food for thought.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

franknbeans said:


> Just at observation, at the risk of being flamed...and one of the reasons i asked my friend this question.
> If there is no discrimination, why does it seem (my personal observation and impression) that if you go to some of the A hunter shows the vast majority of the hunters are bays, typically with minimal white? Just a question, and food for thought.


Look at endurance - many of those horses are gray Arabs. It's just happenstance - not discrimination.

Blood lines play a large part. Highbrow bred AQHA's are big in the cutting pen right now. I believe 85% of them are red duns.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Frank, because it's tradition. Truly, that's the reason, not nefarious hatred of colored horses. And since it's tradition, everyone continues to perpetuate it.

I know a leopard Appaloosa gelding who cleans up in the hunter division. He's fairly loudly spotted, too. He's also a lovely mover and jumper. The judges don't seem to have a problem placing him because of his coloring.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Exactly, SR.

I know a very loudly marked pinto pony that won pretty much every US class she ever went in. Even with heavy competition at rated hunter shows. She moved amazingly. She deserved to win and she did.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i see pintos win in hunters all the time because their round was better, nothing to do with color.

i big reason why you see a lot of solid horses in hunters is because popular breeds for hunters come in only solid colors (unless they are cross bred with something) for example TBs and hanoverians are not pinto.

i do not believe in color discrimination and i have a pinto. we used to win a lot, esp in dressage.


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

As someone who shows very noticeable non-QHs in a largely QH show circuit, it seems like horses that stand out are judgded unfairly. What you have to remember is that your horse will likely catch the judge's eye more often than the solid-colored "run of the mill" horses. That means you have to have a flawless ride every time. You have to work twice as hard as the rest because your mistakes are that much more noticeable. Consider it a compliment and a simple fact of life and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

SEAmom is right. Your horse stands out. Just like if you drive a bright yellow Corvette, a cop will notice you speeding before he notices the maroon Toyota Camry. Also, spots can be misleading when it comes to the build of a horse. Especially horses with a shield, I believe it's called. My mare is black under her neck and white on top. On first glance, you would think she is ewe-necked or that the bottom of her neck is longer than the top. That is not the case, that's just the part that stands out and therefore the part that is noticed.

I don't think everyone uses color as an excuse. I do believe there is some discrimination from some judges. Obviously poorer judges, but judges nonetheless. I know when Ricci was showing in Paint shows, there was still a general dislike of black and white Paints. Didn't stop her from taking home tons of points though.


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

It may surprise you that the most "discrimination" really exists within a breed and is usually associated with style. For example, many years ago in the Arab class A show circuit the "in" thing was to have to horse's head far behind the vertical - almost to the chest. When that came under a lot of heat by the aha, there was a long adjustment period for the new "at vertical" standard to be accepted. Trainers and judges alike differed greatly in their views and I watched a lot of good horses not place because the headset wasn't what the judge wanted to see. The same thing seems to be happening with QHs and "pencil pushers". I've seen more and more judges not place a good horse because the headset was far too low or not low enough depending on what the judge wanted to see. The same thing happens with speed. Judges are split between wanting the super slow motion or a natural motion in English & western classes alike. A big part of doing well showing a horse is to figure out what the judge wants to see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## raywonk (Jan 9, 2011)

i think some of it is breeding more than anything. Bay is a dominat geen. Alot of warmblood breeds are mixed somewear with TB most TB are bay of some range. So you have more dark horses than anything.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I do not think pintos are discriminated against. In our local shows, pintos and Paints place quite well.


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