# Tying in trailers -- why tie high?



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I know that every now and then we have a discussion about tying in trailers vs not. This isn't quite the same question.

I like to think ahead, so thinking ahead to hauling my horses across country in a couple of years, I've been reading a lot of articles about taking horses on long hauls. One thing the articles often mention is that horses have problems because they are not allowed to lower their heads. What I'm wondering is, why don't people just tie them a little lower, or give them more room on the lead rope? Rather than tying them up at head level, why not tie them at, say, wither level or even a little lower?

I understand a lot of the thoughts behind tying vs not tying in trailers, but this seems like it would be something of a compromise. Is there some reason I shouldn't do it?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Because the fear is the horse entangling themselves in a to long a rope.
To long a rope and a hoof tangled, to long a rope and a head/neck encircled and strangulation.
Horses when tied in a trailer with a appropriate rope length _can_ lower their head but they _do not_ need to go to the ground/floor.
They need to, if they wish, let their head drop to wither height or a inch or so lower to clear nasal passages and throat _if they need._
The secret to safe tying is to make the length appropriate for the animals height, not a one size fits all, especially on a long distance haul.

In your case AC, with that new trailer you will have a center divider and ability to tie heads if you want, like cross-tie as your trailer is designed.
You might have chosen a option of full stud divider keeps your horses from nose-touching but being yours live together as they do...harming each other would not be my concern and hanging stuffed haynets between inhabitants also keeps faces far away from each other.
🐴 ...


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

If your horse is tied lower and they put their head down and just move it to the side and bring the head back up, the lead could be over the horse's neck just behind the ears, and then they can't raise the head right up and could panic, this can be pretty frightening for both horse and owner. If you try to undo the snap things are so tight you can\t. If you try to take the halter off same thing too tight and you can't.
this is why I always have a knife (even sissors might not work) in my trailer/tack box.
This is why I always like to tie higher so this frightening situation can be avoided.
Back in the old days when we had horses tied in standing stalls, I put the rope through a ring and tied a weight to the end so if the horse lowered his head the rope end dropped down as well so there was no loop that could hook up over the head.

Often I see horses tied with a long rope and see them putting their heads down and just pray that when they raise their head the rope doesn't come over the head. Also if the rope is too long they can get it caught under a leg.
So speaks the voice of experience, Many years ago I had a nice 3 year old gelding, a very smart little guy, always testing you and one day I tied him up to a very heavy wooden box (very stupid of me). he put his head down and brought it up with the rope over his head. He was surprised and pulled back, lifting this large box partly off the ground, Being such a sensible young guy he looked over at me and said "what do i do now"? I went over asking him to stand quietly, which he did, I couldn't undo the snap or get the halter off him so I had to leave for several seconds and get my knife and cut the rope. I still shudder to this day about what could have happened if he had panicked and jumped away with the box following him.

Experience is the teacher that gives the test before the lesson.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

We use Blocker Tie Rings in the trailer. We check at stops but have never had to readjust the rope length. We start out at a natural resting head position plus a bit more and it has never been an issue. We also don't hang a hay bag as trips have not been long enough to make it a necessity.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Yes I'm definitely going to include a knife in my trailer kit.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Is it really necessary to tie them? I know this discussion has occured many times on HF.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

tinyliny said:


> Is it really necessary to tie them? I know this discussion has occured many times on HF.


I know. I have read through a lot of those discussions. I feel a lot of it was full of people making valid, well-considered, well-supported arguments, on _*both *_sides of the issue. A lot like ramps vs step-ups on trailers. It didn't seem to me that there were a lot more strong arguments for one side or the other, so I can't decide what to do (about tying) and am wondering if I might be able to find a sort of compromise position.


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

I haul my horses in a livestock trailer. I don't tie, at all.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> What I'm wondering is, why don't people just tie them a little lower, or give them more room on the lead rope?
> Is there some reason I shouldn't do it?


You should NOT do it. Because if you tie the horse with enough slack in the rope to get their head down, now they could also potentially get a leg through their lead rope and now you have a wreck/panic on your hands.

That is why you always tie a horse high; trailering or not. Unless the horse has been trained to stake out while you are staking them out, they are should always be tied high.



tinyliny said:


> Is it really necessary to tie them? I know this discussion has occured many times on HF.


Nope. I do not tie my horses (Red and Shotgun) when I haul. But they are experienced haulers and I trust them. Red does much better when he can get his head down. He doesn't get raspy breathing. I have a slant load.

For new horses in my trailer, they get tied until I know them well enough or they are experienced enough to be hauled in my slant load without being tied.

My parents have stock trailers. We always haul the horses loose in those so they can stand how they want.

Also, when I tied in my horse trailer, I use the velcro break-away ties. If the horse would get into trouble, the tie will come free, but it leaves the halter (and a grab strip) on the horse. The ties also have a quick release snap on the window side, should the need arise.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

OK but what I don't understand is why you can't tie at the withers. Say I tied them at the withers with enough slack so that if they were right next to the tie, the line draped down maybe 10 inches. How would they get a foot caught in that?

I mean, they'd be tied where their head is, so the rope would be wither-height but not back by their withers. I know horses can be suicidal, but how could they get a foot into a small amount of rope that goes between their nose and the wall?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

OK here is a drawing I made. I made it using my touchpad so it's terrible, but you get the idea. How can horse get a foot through there?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

ACinATX said:


> OK but what I don't understand is why you can't tie at the withers. Say I tied them at the withers with enough slack so that if they were right next to the tie, the line draped down maybe 10 inches. How would they get a foot caught in that?
> ... how could they get a foot into a small amount of rope that goes between their nose and the wall?


From your picture made...I absolutely can envision the horse putting their head down and a issue happening...I can see it in my mind.
On your 14 hand horses, you do realize how low you refer to tying your animal? The tie loop would be 4' 6" high from the floor, that is wither height on a 14 hand animal. On me, that is about my chest height.
Now you want to give a bit of slack....10" of it.... 
You invite the head to lower more than a foot if slack is taken out of the rope.
You are referring to allowing the horse to drop their head lower than where the top of the front leg and chest meet in essence...
You invite the horse to try to rub its nose by a front hoof and holy cow do you have a disaster in the making.
When my horses are stomping at flies in annoyance they snap a leg pretty darn high.

Do you actually tie your horse when grooming at wither height? Now give them 10" more length and see how close to the ground their face is and that rope actually is. Try it...seriously try it and put treats on the ground they are going to reach for...now watch what they can do.
Now put that inside a trailer _moving_ at 40+mph, now add road vibration and some movement of the animal... 😨😱

So in actuality this has to do with leverage and release of knots/fasteners from a level load or a downward applied force I believe.
If using a fence at my barn to tie off on it would be higher, if using a cross tie it would be higher...
If using the side of a trailer the predetermined height the loops are welded to the trailer...they _are_ above the wither unless you have a 18 hand sized animal.
Did you specify the height of your head ties to the salesman at the dealer?
Now realize that moving them lower also can create issue if you trailer horses larger...say near 16 hands is a very common size of horse...and you customed your trailer so it exceeds 16 hand horse sizing protocols.
My trailer, my horses are just under 16 hands...when they stand outside tied being tacked up the tie loop is level with their eyes when they stand with their head at a normal level of alert but not terrified of giraffe look.
When they stand inside the trailer with their head at a relaxed but above wither height the tie loops are mid-ear height

And, at the height you refer to wanting *I* could not safely walk under a rope that low to begin with with risk of my neck being hurt. So your trailer and tie loop designation just limited me trying to use it with my horses in truth...
To me, there are just some things you don't mess with...tying and at what height is one of those things been done for eons of time and its worked great so why chuck it away?
I would not want my animals to be the guinea pig of experiment is all I will say.
I know you _*not *_refer to on the floor length of rope, but we are also not referring to strangling your horse tied high and no slack either...there is a safe and happy medium here you need to recognize and find.
Your trailer ties length _must_ be made to the size of the horses being hauled.

And.._.I do tie_, so if a disaster happens as my horse goes to flee past rescuers there is something to grab for before they are loose and running in a panic and now nothing to catch with, _nothing_ and you try to get your hands on a halter of a frightened animal in panic mode...not happening.
I use trailer ties specifically made and I put the quick release_ to the wall _so it releases but leaves a tail to grab in a emergency as the animal bolts. _ Do not use bungee cord trailer ties either_...another disaster and potential eye-blinding moment for animal and you!!.
It is to common horses break loose at trail-heads or show-grounds and it is chaos ensues till someone can jump high enough to grab a horse who was not tied and bolted off a trailer...beware!



ACinATX said:


> Yes I'm definitely going to include a knife in my trailer kit.


As for this...
Sounds wonderful to have a knife in a trailer kit...
But...
During a crisis when trailering you don't have time to go looking for that knife...you needed it yesterday kind of need is way different than "planned".
I would strongly suggest you keep a knife in your kit but keep a another very sharp, very strong bladed non-folding knife in your tow vehicle to grab and run.
Yes, we have one in a leather scabbard in the door pocket of our truck. It is known as a buck knife the one we have..
Looks like this below_ {this is from LL Bean}_







When coming upon a accident or emergent scene it takes not a second to grab it and run to offer help.
There is no "Wait, I'll look in my kit for it...take just a minute." _ You don't have a minute..........._
Sadly we've cut a few horses loose from trailer wrecks so they then could scramble to their feet and be caught as they exited a mangled trailer. The horse was hanging by a rope that was not properly tied for a quick release, even then the strain on it not sure it would of released anyway.
It still took some effort to slice through rope or ties...but we were not fumbling looking through a kit...and who says you can access that part of your trailer if you just wrecked...
You _must_ think ahead of disaster to be prepared.
Besides which, this is also the knife I wear strapped to my belt when trail riding cause you just never know what might appear needing that sharp blade...{it also makes a wonderful apple slicer on the trail}
Do indeed have a knife in your kit, razor sharp, but consider what you may be using it for and if having a non-folding blade with a strong handle also might be a good asset to have on hand...how a knife is designed has much to do with use and strain it can and would be put to a test to accomplish.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Just reading that makes me feel browbeaten, and I'm not even the OP.


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

Are you thinking that when we tie just because the tie is high that the head is cranked up that way? I just don't get getting the same question over and over when everyone is saying it's a better way to tie... My ties in my trailer aren't at the top of my trailer... I tie very loose, don't really have to tie the older ones but I do sometimes.. I am tying my young guy just so he knows he needs to stand when trailering. I go long distances and often...

I was just curious why you keep asking the same question and getting the same answer. Sorry I don't know...

I'm with @beau159 - tying if you do it's always better to be high, but again you aren't cranking their head you just want the tie higher than they are and not have the loose lower than need be....

You will have outside ties too are you going to lower them? Do you have 2 on each side?


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

lb27312 said:


> Are you thinking that when we tie just because the tie is high that the head is cranked up that way? I just don't get getting the same question over and over when everyone is saying it's a better way to tie...


My concern is that for long distance trips they will not be able to lower their heads and clear their breathing passages.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question but, here is my attempt to answer it. I'm not the kind of person who does a thing a certain way because "everyone is saying" to do it. I am a person who does research, thinks about it, and asks whether there is a BETTER way to do it. I need to understand the reasons behind the actions. Perhaps by understanding the reasons, I will agree that it's best and go along. Perhaps I won't understand the answers and I will ask more questions. Perhaps I will determine that the answers don't make sense so I should not follow them.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm asking the same question over and over again. I will probably keep doing it (asking for clarification and further explanation) until I get an answer that makes sense to me. It's how I learn. If you don't want to reply, you don't have to.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

The loops in trailers made for tying to may be high but it would be no different than tying to a rail outside a barn if you were going to brush and saddle your horse.
Their head is in a comfortable resting position but the lead isn't so long they can't get themselves in a wreck.

I've hauled my horses halfway across the country a couple of times. And I have had 100's of horses layover at our last place before we moved. If you are stopping in the evenings to overnight, getting them out of the trailer to stretch, put them in a stall or pen so they can eat and drink comfortably, they should be fine. They can drain quite well after a little walk getting off the trailer and put in a stall/pen and fed close to the ground.

My best advice to avoid problems before your big trip/move would be getting your horses used to getting on and off the trailer. 
But most importantly is water intake. Prepare your horses for drinking from the buckets you'll be using on the road. If you are going to be using an electrolyte to encourage drinking and disguise strange water, start introducing it well before you leave.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Tie high, don't tie, doesn't really matter, it all depends on the animal. Tying too long will allow them to tangle up feet, get wrapped around the neck, get their head stuck under a divider, bang their heads, all depends on how they trailer. I tie some, don't others and hang hay nest for some, let others ride without anything to eat. If they tend to rear up and get their front feet stuck in the mangers (some trailers have them) or, like Cloney, stick his front feet a hay net, then they don't get to eat while they ride. 

I stop every 4 hours for a walk around break for me, untie everyone in the trailer and toss them some hay on the floor and hang water buckets for them to drink out of. Once that's all done, I go inside to a restaurant and have tea or something to eat if I'm hungry. I try not to drive over 400 miles per day, 500 if I'm in the middle of nowhere and I have to. Max hours for me is 8-10 plus breaks, so about 12. When I stop for the night, if I'm at a horse motel, I unload and put them in stalls where they can stretch out and lay down and get their heads down for AT LEAST 8 hours. If I have to just pull over and sleep in my truck, they get untied and left with their heads loose for a minimum of 8 hours. 

Why 8 hours? I asked the vets at OSU Vet Teaching Hospital about preventing shipping fever many years ago. They advised that if the horse was allowed to drop their heads way down (why I feed on the floor) they would drain any collected moisture in their sinus cavities and that would stop drainage into the lungs and help prevent shipping fever, traveling pneumonia, whatever you want to call it. I've done it ever since and, knock on wood, have never had a horse get off the trailer sick.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

In short - to prevent accidents. Not my horses but did end up being my train wreck as I was the only one familiar enough with the two and prepared to handle the nightmare of tangled limbs from a haynet tied too low.

Everyone knew better but the new employee was such a PITB when she retied the nets for the third time (once after removing to refill, then after I retied where they belong , then after a good friend who saw them and once again put them back up) the owner told us all to leave her and the nets because we didn't have that far to travel.

3 hours. 3 hours is a nothing drive where we were at. 3 hours could be a grocery store run. Not even 20 minutes into the the trip we think someone slammed into the trailer as we all felt and heard the concussion as the truck lurched forward.

No, no one hit the trailer. One of the horses was upside down, totally tangled in the hay net and twisted in a manner a horse shouldn't be able to twist practically under the horse next to it. These are drafts. Not that it makes much difference but they were both 18 h and over 2000 pounds at that time.

The one had to be cut out of the netting all the while legs are flailing and the other horse trying to rear. I also had to deal with them being tied, quick release not used and with the tension on the one likely even that would not have able to be released. We were in bumper to bumper traffic and no getting horse number two out.

I went in with a pair of felcos and a quick prayer. What I came out with was a lifetime shoulder injury, much bruising and a concussion from the trapped horse. I was lucky that was all I came out with. The horses were beat up and the one down had cuts from them material the netting was made of.

So now this is where most say but I never or I won't or but I use.....it doesn't matter a bag hung too low can result in the death of your horse or the person trying to untangle the mess created.

Tying correctly is one of the first lessons at these safety clinics. Height to tie is the second. This isn't just people say so you need to *____*. You fill in the blank.

I'll also tell you why felcos. Because a knife in this situation would not have cut as fast and could have caught either myself, the horse or the other on any stroke knocked out of my hand by any random body part unintentionally crashing around. Getting the netting undone a knife could have e too easily sliced something not intended and caused more or deeper injury. 

Those pruners are kept sharp and are always in the same location in any vehicle I am in. I have multiple pairs and any that work with or for me know never to touch the pair in my truck.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The question isn't how high to tie. There are too many in the know, too many accidental and likely studies that can be found saying why high. The question is tie or not? Or, hay hung during or given on floor when truck is stopped for a break?


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

You don't need to tie them. If they should slip in the trailer and fall, they can break their neck- i believe that happened to someone on this forum (hauling in for euthanasia). If you have well behaved horses, there's no reason you have to tie them. I walk in the trailer, unsnap the lead rope and close either the slant stall and/or the back door. You could also run a lead rope through the tie ring to hold them straight, close the slant, and then step outside to unclip the lead. 

As for catching them, you can stand outside the trailer and snap on the lead rope before opening the door and unloading. 

I see no reason to tie them, provided they are well behaved. Even my one mare who could be a very difficult loader, has gotten with the program. She would squat down and crawl backwards under the butt bars in a straight load...and she isn't a small horse. Giving her the freedom to turn around in the slant, has eliminated that problem. I basically use my trailer as a box stall and I think she prefers the freedom, rather then a claustrophobic straight load. As her loading issues have pretty much disappeared. Time, training, and experience all help.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

On the subject of hay nets, the nets we used, when they are filled with hay and tied up, they look ok but as the horse eats the hay out, the nets would flatten and lengthen so by the time they were empty, they were hanging too low and easy for a horse to put a foot through. So many people do not realize this and take it into consideration when hanging a net.
When I put a hay net into the trailer I would have a snap on it and thread the snap through the hook and then back down through the net somewhere near the bottom and then back up to the hook to snap on. This kept the net up higher for the whole trip.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> OK here is a drawing I made. I made it using my touchpad so it's terrible, but you get the idea. How can horse get a foot through there?


Tie high is better for the horse, in terms of if they would happen to PULL BACK. 

Sure, you can tie them short enough in the drawing you depicted. You can make sure the lead is short enough so that they cannot lower their head and get a foot through. But if the horse pulls back, they can cause greater damage to the object and themselves, because of the angle they are tied. They can get more leverage on it.

If you tie high, because of the angle, they are less likely to break the object they are pulling against. And we all know you don't want the object the horse is tied to to break (for general tieing rules). Of course, the exception there is you would perhaps want it to break in the case of hauling in a trailer. In the event you get into an accident and the trailer is on its' side for example, at least your horse won't be hung to death of their lead breaks free (such as a breakaway tie).


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> OK here is a drawing I made. I made it using my touchpad so it's terrible, but you get the idea. How can horse get a foot through there?


In the pic you drew the attachment for the tie is too low. If the horse sits back it will hurt its neck and poll which is where that tie puts all the pressure, it would be VERY easy for a horse to hang a leg over that rope. The only way the horse in your pic would be safe is if you tied so short its nose would be against the wall. Move the anchor point up high (above the windows for example) and the horse can't get the leverage to hurt themselves at the poll. They may still strain their neck muscles but that's not going to kill them. 

If you tie, you don't WANT them to be able to drop their heads. That's why you stop every night or every day (if hauling through the desert in the heat of summer for instance, we hauled at night), untie them and let them drop their heads to eat which will allow any accumulation to drain out. That's why we say throw the hay on the floor. 

I'd have sworn that a horse could not rear up enough to get their feet in the manger of a trailer. Well, for a big horse that's probably true, but for an Arab (even a large one like Cloney) it's not only doable, it's EASILY doable. Same thing for hay nets or bags. He can back up, rear up a little and then hang his front feet in the manger or the hay bag or net. If you ever have a horse hang their feet in the manger, the first time they do it will scare you to death because you will feel it when those feet come down into the manger. Once they're in the manger, that's it, they're hung. Fortunately, it sways the trailer enough that it will probably make you stop and look for whatever is causing the sway. It can turn a 2 hr trip into an 8 hr trip because you have to stop and unload everyone else, because it's always the horse that's furthest in the trailer that does it, get that fool down without getting him on top of your head, load everyone else back up and close up and go for 10 more minutes and the trailer sways again.........Stop, rinse, repeat. That was the day that convinced me I never need a trailer with a manger. Cloney destroyed enough hay nets and hay bags that he gets to ride without anything to chew on. 

Once you stop for the night, or if you take an extended break, you can undo their ties and either let them off the trailer or put hay on the floor and leave them loose to eat. They don't need to have their heads down for the ride. I'm attaching a pic that shows tied high but the horses have their heads in a comfortable position.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks guys. I hadn't thought about them sitting back.

We still have another three years before our move. Maybe someone will invent a horse teleportation device by then and I won't have to worry about it.


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