# Empty mare bagging up?



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Hormones can play a part of producing milk when they aren't pregnant. I've never had a mare's udder change due to weight issues. Same mare at two different times had a false pregnancy (had bred her then took her in for an ultrasound and she wasn't pregnant but she thought she was and wasn't getting another egg ready) and then one winter she developed a full udder complete with milk (no chance of her being pregnant). Called the vet and he said he sees it every once in a while and it would go away in a week or two. It did.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Oh wow ok then so hopefully no surprises! Either way, we'll find out end of the month!


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Is your yearling a stud colt?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

No way haha she is a filly  No studs around! Just bulls


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## southernbound (May 17, 2014)

I had a scare like this with my mare (though it would have been immaculate conception). After a very thorough vet exam we found that the weight AND the bag changes were due to ovarian cysts. Not much we could do except keep her on a diet. She just had an almost perpetual bag depending on the time of year.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Although I agree with possible false pregnancy, if it was a live cover there is also a chance of infection.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

So far on? Wouldn't it have shown earlier? 
I'm thinking it's just fat however saw her today her teats are really swinging.
I'll suggest a vet check to her owner


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Sometimes, extremely fat mares will fill around the udder line with fat.

Mares that have previously had foals will often have a little residual, very watery "milk" even years after their last foal.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Aargh thanks for that! That may just be it!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

We are in a dairy district here too, and have to lock horses into low-grass areas and/or use grazing muzzles to prevent obesity. Laminitis and other really serious health problems are a real possibility. Take good care! If your mare gets sick, you'll kick yourself for not preventing it. I also had to learn the hard way...

Greetings from across the Tasman!  (And the Great Australian Bight too actually!  )


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## Djmikey (Nov 21, 2014)

I have had an Arab mare bag up and drip milk for days, purely as a result of the fresh Lucerne. Even had the vet out to check she wasn't in foal as we had only had hey for 8 months at the time.


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks for everyone's input  I'll kee you updated!


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Boobies are going down! She's on less grass now so hopefully it was just fattness and the sugar in the lush grass she was on.
She'll be in the clear middle of next month


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

EB, there is something else I just remembered. Over here in Australia we have certain varieties of clover so high in phyto-estrogens, they not infrequently make wethers (castrated male sheep, for the non-farmers) lactate!!! Might also happen with other animals.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

A male of any kind being able to lactate is a new one on me. Where do they get mammary glands (as in where on their body)?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The basic body plan of the mammal is female, and males have mammary glands too, although these stay quite rudimentary unless hormonally stimulated. But, with hormonal stimulation, the glands can develop and, with the right mix of hormones, lactation can be induced. Where? In the human male, under the nipple, of course: And with sex reassignment surgery, that's how breasts are developed when going to a female gender.

Rudimentary nipples are present on male mammals - in some species more obviously than in others. If you have a male dog or cat, you should be able to find them easily in exactly the same place females have them.

A paper referring to the phenomenon of lactating wethers on subterranean clover:

DETECTION OF CLOVER DISEASE IN WETHERS - Seddon - 2008 - Australian Veterinary Journal - Wiley Online Library

Hope this helps!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Sue, your lactating males became a discussion at our Thanksgiving dinner today. LOL So it became a great debate on whether or not male sheep have visible nipples. We agreed you can find them on male dogs, bulls/steers and hogs easily. Male cats we weren't sure about, we went out and grabbed one and couldn't feel any but even if it wasn't winter here we all agreed that none of us was brave enough to try to shave a barn cat's tummy. None on male horses. We all figured out that not a one of us has ever owned sheep to know (my family is full of farmers). We had to table the discussion until we see my brothers wife on Monday and ask her since she grew up raising sheep. None of us had ever heard of a male lactating though. You guys must have some powerful alfalfa Down Under. I'm saving your article to read until tomorrow when my brain won't be so numb from eating too much.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

JCnGrace said:


> Sue, your lactating males became a discussion at our Thanksgiving dinner today. LOL


:rofl: What have I done now... typed some info into a box on my netbook and actually encouraged people across the globe from me to have a very strange Thanksgiving dinner discussion? :lol: 

That reminds me: Some farmers I know actually think lactating wethers are a bit of a delicacy compared to normal wethers...




> So it became a great debate on whether or not male sheep have visible nipples. We agreed you can find them on male dogs, bulls/steers and hogs easily. Male cats we weren't sure about, we went out and grabbed one and couldn't feel any but even if it wasn't winter here we all agreed that none of us was brave enough to try to shave a barn cat's tummy. None on male horses. We all figured out that not a one of us has ever owned sheep to know (my family is full of farmers). We had to table the discussion until we see my brothers wife on Monday and ask her since she grew up raising sheep.


They are really easy to see on our two-year-old Friesian steers (dairy breed)...every time they get up, you can see four teats where the udder is in the mature cow...

In sheep, look in the same place, but only expect two nipples.

Said to be absent in the male horse and in male mice. I expect that their development is so vestigial you can't see it in the adult, kind of like the tail on humans that's only present in an early embryonic stage. I'd say that in horses and mice, differentiation of those tissues is switched off at an earlier stage of development than in the rest of the mammals.




> None of us had ever heard of a male lactating though. You guys must have some powerful alfalfa Down Under. I'm saving your article to read until tomorrow when my brain won't be so numb from eating too much.


It's not alfalfa, it's clover, just some varieties.  Although broccoli contains similar compounds, albeit at concentrations where your male relatives would have to consume unconsumable quantities in one sitting to require a training bra. :rofl: Lots of plants contain phytoestrogens and other such mimics, not so many at such high concentrations. Interestingly, there are also some fascinating studies on breast development in male long-term, high-quantity marijuana users...


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Well I couldn't make heads or tails out of that article for the most part so I'm going to take your word for it. 

Alfalfa/clover at least they're both legumes. Told you my brain was numb from eating too much that day. LOL


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## EquineBovine (Sep 6, 2012)

Hey guys! So I checked her today...her udder is kind of developing more in the front now...her due date, if she took, would be about 8th December...
Watch this space


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## horseNpony (Sep 27, 2013)

JCnGrace said:


> Male cats we weren't sure about, we went out and grabbed one and couldn't feel any but even if it wasn't winter here we all agreed that none of us was brave enough to try to shave a barn cat's tummy.


I can assure you, male cats have them. I freaked out one day when I found something odd on my cats belly. He was due for a vet visit so I asked about it when I took him. I probably should have realised what they were considering they were perfectly lined up, silly me thought it was some sort of worms. My cat was not very pleased with me checking his belly :lol:


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Here's some fun trivia: Although male horses have no obviously visible nipples, male donkeys do! Checked on our donkey gelding: They are near the scrotal area, clearly visible when the tail swishes around!  Sorry no photos, that just takes so long to organise and upload... curious now. Anyone here have access to a male zebra?


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## southernbound (May 17, 2014)

Don't have pictures but male zebras do too. Our local tack shop keeps a variety of exotic animals and they have some very friendly zebras haha.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

What interesting things we get sidetracked on. LOL


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

The side tracks are the scenic roads of life! 

Very cool, SB: And you're not even in Africa?


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## southernbound (May 17, 2014)

Nope not in Africa. Made some zebra friends in Africa too when I was a teenager but that's besides the point. 

It's the Mesquite mercantile in mesquite NM. Some kid approached the owners of the place about 8 years ago and asked if he could keep some of his exotic pets there and they could have a petting zoo in exchange for board and they took him up on it. He brought a Zony and an emu and a camel and some kind of miniature bull and then people started dumping an odd assortment of animals on them (they have a ton of land) and then they started buying/boarding others so the selection kind of rotates. I think right now they have camels, mini bulls, a zebra, some pot bellied bigs, ostrich, emu and some other odd birds.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Man, imagine taking a zebra to a dressage competition, haha!  I mean, we're getting the odd great mule doing that now, but I've not seen a zebra at high levels yet. Or even just a zorse would be great - allegedly people trek on those in Kenya...


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## southernbound (May 17, 2014)

I would give most anything to have a zorse....


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