# Pregnant mares! ***NO STUD*** Picture Heavy!



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

None of the udders look "full". Go compare them to the nursing mare's udders. You will see a marked difference in size and shape. 

All three mares look incredibly obese. So yes, it could just be fat. Easily. The before and after pic shows a mare that has gained a lot of weight ALL OVER. I would be more worried about how morbidly obese they are than if they could have immaculately conceived.

The pasture is horrible. So much potential for injury.

I also find it horrible how you feel you have to point out the owner's sexuality. If they were straight you wouldn't feel that need, so why does it matter? What impact does that have on the question, or on the horse in general? Bigotry lives while we give it breath.


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

The udders don't look full but by glancing at the mares I would have suspected the same. Their bellies are huge! They look like my pregnant mare. I like Oreo. I will take her is her owner does not want her! Thanks!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> None of the udders look "full". Go compare them to the nursing mare's udders. You will see a marked difference in size and shape.
> 
> All three mares look incredibly obese. So yes, it could just be fat. Easily. The before and after pic shows a mare that has gained a lot of weight ALL OVER. I would be more worried about how morbidly obese they are than if they could have immaculately conceived.
> 
> ...


The reason I mention is orientation at all is because with him it makes him extremely uncomfortable talking about anything female. He tries to block out anything having to do with a woman's anatomy hence the not being sure he would have noticed. I find there is NOTHING wrong with being gay and that the wrongness comes from those who think it bad to speak of it.

I have check the utters against the other mare that is KNOWN to be pregnant and I NEVER said that they are getting ready to drop or that their utters were full just that there were *SWOLLEN* and more so then they had been when I first got there. These mares are also kept with a gelding which I believe and the old trainer believes to be proud cut so it is not how they could have "immaculately conceived"

This post is not thrown out there on pure hope it is an educated (maybe less educated then some but I have worked for vet at a breeding farm) observation. Also nursing utters are far different from the utters of a maiden mare which most of these would be. I am also mostly posting this at the absurdity that the gentleman who owns the property refuses to get them vet checked when I am not the only one who is seeing this. The fact that one mare stuck her legs through a fence and was let to sit out there while the flies got to her cuts and they got infected is enough to turn my stomach. 

As for the pasture....it is not my property! they only just opened that pasture up so that they can get to the other side of the property and rarely have I seen the horses up with the cars, this being maybe the 3 time I have seen them there. It is also not the ONLY pasture they have access to. And no I do not favor the conditions but it was better then the horses getting turned out on the highway.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

and yes I realize I misspelled udders 100 times it just wasnt clicking with me....lol dyslexia is the worst.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

I agree with the udders, not too full yet. I also was wondering why you pointed out the owners sexuality but you cleared that up.
Im not sure but to me these horses just look a bit overweight. Not saying that they aren't in foal, they may as well could be. We don't know that. It would be great to get the vet out if you are unsure...The thing that turns me off being possibly pregnant is the udders. Also, how long is the gap of time between Rosie's before and after photos??
On a side note, they are all very gorgeous horses! I especially like the two coloured ones but im biased


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

They barely even look swollen. A little fluctuation in size is normal from season to season, just like in humans. Breast tissue is affected by hormones without pregnancy. Horses can have a slight swelling when on season, coming up to season or when coming off season. Just like humans do when coming up to menses.

No one here can tell you the mares are definitely pregnant or definitely not. That's the domain of a vet. You have done your best to let the owners know your theory. That's all you can do. Starting a post here isn't going to change that. The only other advice anyone can give you is to call animal control or the SPCA. Neither body will do anything (although that sort of obesity should be just as criminal as starving a horse IMO). 

I understand that the pasture is not yours, and you do not maintain it. If I were a horse owner, I would not be boarding there, but I guess that is personal preference. I know how accident prone horses can be, so I would make the choice to remove as much potential for accident as possible. However, that doesn't have any bearing on this thread. 

Just like being gay doesn't. If he is really so uptight about female animals (which somehow I doubt, given he owns one) then he is being deliberately neglectful and should be reported.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Cute foal, and wow a lot of potentially pregnant mares... 

I am scared out of my mind with all the horses out near farm equipment and junk all around  

It's also nerving that the BO isn't letting the boarders know!! What the heck!


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Three months between Rosie's pictures however to also point out Star is well worked he takes her off property every Monday he can and off on some new adventure 2 - 3 times per month and he has even said that she is getting unrealistically wide. To also make a note the new mare that is in the pasture (the big bay behind Star) does not have the same swell in front of the tits and neither does the mare kept separate from the heard because of a medical condition which is the main reason the udders pricked my interest. I also know for a fact that Rosie did not have those swells in the first picture because I had just finished working her and gave her a brush down and made she that she hadnt gotten any cut, as I do before I tack her up.

The simple point is that no one out there is watching the mares. The one dropped her colt in the pasture and was found a couple days later, he still has his belly button and hasnt been checked at all but he is a boarders horse. The other one that is known to be bred looks more heavy then I would expect from a mare her size. No one is watching and no one has supplies in case the mares need help.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

Wow thats interesting...

Maybe the vet needs to be called to give an expert opinion on these mares. I don't know what can be done to get them more care. Others have said ring authorities, maybe that can be done.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Cute foal, and wow a lot of potentially pregnant mares...
> 
> I am scared out of my mind with all the horses out near farm equipment and junk all around
> 
> It's also nerving that the BO isn't letting the boarders know!! What the heck!


He didnt call when horses got sarcoptic mange either. He is an old perv just looking for a cheep buck and so he doesnt care. 

Chiilaa - My horses are not kept out with the heard and I check the fence and buildings whenever I can to make sure nothing is to dangerous for them however even still one of my horses has recently gotten a pretty nasty injury because someone who was not allowed went into his pen.

I understand that no one can tell me yes or no to if the mares are pregnant and I should have put a question mark in the title instead of the exclamation point. I guess I feel this is a "hey I have to wait and see what happens because they wont get the vet check. everyone bite your nails with me?" post then anything. And as I said at the bottom I could just be seeing things but then that means at least three others are as well so I hope we arent all going crazy but with this desert heat we have been having we might have just gone mad in it.

It is not that he is scared of having a female around him he just gets extremely uncomfortable. He looked like he was about to get sick when we were riding in together and I scratched my chest just under my collar bone. I guess a lot of that has to do with the fact that I was raised that if you cant understand your own body and anatomy who will you be able to understand and care for that of an animal? 

Oreo is not for sale. She wants to keep her because the horse was daddys hroses that he left to her but I think it is cruel to have such a fine young healthy animal left as a pasture puff because of someones laziness. I even offered to get the mare back in shape and get rides on her so that is was safe to do so when she wanted to FINALLY come out and ride like she has been saying she will.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

They are obese. Fat in horses can accumulate in lumps under the skin. That's what it looks like to me. These horses aren't just plump - they are massive. I would score these horses between a 7 and an 8 on the scale - between "fleshy" and "fat". You can see the gutter developing down the back, the fat deposits, and the developing crests. Even if these mares WERE pregnant, there would be no way to tell, as they are so fat.

ETA: I realise this came off as being a bit judgmental. I wasn't aiming this rant at you in particular, more at the owners. And to a certain degree the SPCA and animal control who won't do anything about horses that are obese.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

When was anything said about Oreo being for sale? Did I miss somthing?


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

PintoTess said:


> When was anything said about Oreo being for sale? Did I miss somthing?


Jewelsb said that she would take oreo if the owner didnt want her but no sale specifically wasnt mentioned.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> They are obese. Fat in horses can accumulate in lumps under the skin. That's what it looks like to me. These horses aren't just plump - they are massive. I would score these horses between a 7 and an 8 on the scale - between "fleshy" and "fat". You can see the gutter developing down the back, the fat deposits, and the developing crests. Even if these mares WERE pregnant, there would be no way to tell, as they are so fat.
> 
> ETA: I realise this came off as being a bit judgmental. I wasn't aiming this rant at you in particular, more at the owners. And to a certain degree the SPCA and animal control who won't do anything about horses that are obese.


thank you for stating it wasnt to me because you about got a can of cap locks!!! lol. Pasture puffs irritate me especially when it is the persons laziness. The reason why I didnt suspect anything like pregnancy before is because they were so heavy as it was but these are bigger changes then I had noticed before. and again this is really just a "biting my nails" thread.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

Oh that was a joke I think. Heaps of people on here say that when they like a horse lol.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Is this that same "old perv" that was harassing you in your other thread?

Personally I would rather throw myself out a ten story window than board there due to safety reasons of both horse and person.

I would call animal control because the owners have a right to know and these horses are going to get seriously hurt.. especially the foal who is curious and doesn't know any better. 

But I'm a huge worrier so it's up to you.


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## AnnaT (May 2, 2011)

I don't know anything about pregnant mares but someone needs to clear that field, all that metal and junk is dangerous.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah I have a tendency to take everything very literally over the internet. It is much more difficult to read people when you can not at least hear their voice. But after all I am the one sitting over here making caps lock jokes because it is after 4 am and I have not slept since 7am yesterday.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

^^ Bahaha fair enough 

I think the issue of the junk has been well cleared up. The OP knows and has been told MANY times now.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

OP-how would these mares have gotten impregnated? Was there another stud in the vicinity other than the one you bought at an auction in May?
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/my-new-$41-stud-auction-123008/
According to last weeks thread, he was not healthy enough yet to be gelded but you have been sitting on him?:shock:
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/royal-casanova-125895/
I am also curious as to WHY you are still boarding here, if this is the same perv from your thread-
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-boarding/being-solicited-board-121990/

To me you seem to get upset and "worried" about things, and then not follow thru and do anything about them. That is why I posted your other threads. If you are so "worried" about these horses, you should call animal control. You state there are untreated wounds from the fences, which look to be barbwire, but I may be wrong. There are all sorts of hazards in the pasture, and even if my horses were not in that particular pasture, I would have never even been at this place to begin with, let alone still there after months, AND being sexually harrassed by the "perv" BO!
I think part of you likes to post to get a reaction just for your entertainment, since you do NOTHING about the situation. 
IF these horses ARE pregnant, there needed to be a stud SOMEWHERE. THis was not immaculate conception. They also need to be somewhere safe. You seriously need to put on your big girl panties and do something about the situation at the place you board at, or quit complaining. You are actually condoning the behavior by continueing to be there.:evil:


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

Oh no I was completely serious! Lol just kinda joking since I knew she wasn't up for sale. Just wishful thinking on my part!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Being concerned because someone is not "using their horse to its potential" makes no sense to me. It is also in no way considered neglect.
Refocusing your concern on the obese mares and the hazards in the pasture would be more realistic.
As a Jew I do not believe in immaculate conception.
There IS a stallion with access to those mares somewhere.
That needs to be addressed.
With all these mares dropping foals or suspected of being pregnant that stallion needs to be located.
Those recently foaled mares will be coming back into heat.
One cannot tell from looking if a mare is pregnant.
Last year I purchased two mares in July.
during the PPE the vet , myself , and the owner suspected one both were heavily pregnant.
In fact it was decided to delay the transport of one because of her condition.
The first one was confirmed in foal.
Two weeks later I took the second one to the vet.
She was declared empty.
To confirm a pregnancy as Chiilaa has posted you need a vet.
Shalom


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> Being concerned because someone is not "using their horse to its potential" makes no sense to me. It is also in no way considered neglect.


I have to agree, being concerned that an owner isn't using their horse to it's fullest potential is like grouching about the lil ol neighbor lady driving her '67 Chevy only on the weekend :wink:


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree the mares do not look swollen or bagged up. 

And how would they get pregnant with no stallion?

I think they are obese. Very, very, unhealthily obese.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

yes the horses are obese, but they could be even more obese, i knew 2 horse that was the size of an elephant and he lived a LOOONG HEALTHY lives its not ideal, but the OP has no control over the situation, i personally don't think they are pregnant.. however.. 1 already has a foal.. was the one that has the foal new in the last few months? or has she been there with the rest of the horses? if so then there is a good chance the rest could be pregnant as well.

here are the 2 Obese hippos, Buddy and Birdie. buddy is the chesnut.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol, ^^^ those are some fatties!

And the mare with the foal, is new to the property.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

then chances are they are just big in the belly, Birdie up there ^^ has lived with that man for well over 15 years and she is NOT in foal, however it looks like she could drop triplettes tonight, its what happens when you have horses on 25 acres, he mows the field every few weeks so that they don't founder, (and they never have!) other then that, he offers a round bale of hay in the winter, and doesn't grain them. the only thing he could do to make them loose weight is to cut them off from the pasture. other then their giant size they were completely healthy.


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

GOOD call and catch FranknBeans!


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I agree with what was said, and good call Franknbeans. 

These mares do not look pregnant to me. And since pregnancy isn't an air borne problem, you say there is no stallion, then there is your answer. Time to stop worrying. 

What would be valid cause for concern is that pasture! A death trap.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

As for me not getting them vet checked...They are not my horses and to be perfectly honest I do not have the money for them. Four, including myself, experienced riders/trainers there see the same things I do and most of these mares have been in the pasture for most of their lives without getting THAT fat before. AGAIN as I said at the bottom of my Original post that I could just be seeing things. 

The old perv bo is the same one I was talking about and he has been handled just because I did not post every detail because, as it is here, people were blowing things out of proportion doesnt mean I just sat idly by either. So do NOT assume you know me or the entirety of the situation. 

For them getting pregnant without a stud in the pasture they are kept with geldings. Proud cut geldings, as many are around here, CAN STILL REPRODUCE! I believe one of the geldings that is with the mares happens to be proud cut but again not one of mine. 

Its time to drop the pasture comments NOT my pasture not my horses and I cant really do much about it. 

As for my stud WHEN we got him in APRIL not May he was not even healthy enough to worm and I didnt even try to sit on him until he had been wormed and gained a healthy weight. As you can see in my posts about him he is MUCH more healthy in his picture with the saddle then he is when I got him. To make it a final point no only was he so spooky that you couldnt halter him or load him or walk up to him but he has not had any previous medical treatment and I will not put him at risk for staph because he hasnt had any of his vaccines. If waiting until he had reached a stable weight and then trying to see how much work his previous owners did with him and how much I could do or needed to do to get him trained is "not following through" then go ahead because I dont know yall and I really dont care about YOUR judgments of me.

Simple fact of the ORIGINAL topic is that these mares are uncharacteristically large. Star is a fit horse she is FAR from "morbidly obese" and well her picture is worth 1000 words imo. Go ahead and try to tell me that TwoSocks isnt pregnant because she for a fact is and one of two that were confirmed BY A VET before they got put on the property to be pregnant. as for the others yes they are fat to start but not this fat that is why I posted. 

Animal control here can not do a whole bunch. Unless there is physical proof of abuse they cant/wont do anything. Here they cant afford to take every horses that might do better in another home or dogs or cats. They took one dog only after the owner but tail bands, like for docking sheep tails, on his testicals to try to fix him and he chewed them off from the pain. It is very hard to find an organization here that will help animals fully and without question. And before you start NO THIS IS NOT AN EXAGGERATION!!!


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

But in the end I am done with this thread and this site Yes I may have over eagerly posted this thread but it is the manner in general of the members here that has set me off. I have known pleasant members but not enough to make it worth my while!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok. I don't usually get in on the more heated discussion threads, BUT! I have known OP for quite a while via chat here, and we've spoken often. I have seen a lot of pictures of her stud which she has not posted here, and his progress has been wonderful. She has done really well in giving her horse the proper care to rehab from who knows what he went through.

Sometimes I don't get the attitude of some people. At the top of the forum on every page it specifically says to keep out rude tones and ask questions for more information rather to assume.

I think a lot of people fail to do that.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Nuala said:


> As for me not getting them vet checked...They are not my horses and to be perfectly honest I do not have the money for them. Four, including myself, experienced riders/trainers there see the same things I do and most of these mares have been in the pasture for most of their lives without getting THAT fat before. AGAIN as I said at the bottom of my Original post that I could just be seeing things. *I think we all heard that they were not yours, and not your vet bill. That does NOT mean you cannot call animal protection. You OR any of the other four you say are involved.*
> 
> The old perv bo is the same one I was talking about and he has been handled just because I did not post every detail because, as it is here, people were blowing things out of proportion doesnt mean I just sat idly by either. So do NOT assume you know me or the entirety of the situation. *WE can only go by what YOU tell us, which is nothing. We are not "assuming" anything. I only posted YOUR threads.*
> 
> ...


*No, I believe that, but this is a thread about horses. Again-if I felt I was in a situation like yours-I would be GONE. I would not place myself in a compromising situation, nor my horses. period.*


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Ok. I don't usually get in on the more heated discussion threads, BUT! I have known OP for quite a while via chat here, and we've spoken often. I have seen a lot of pictures of her stud which she has not posted here, and his progress has been wonderful. She has done really well in giving her horse the proper care to rehab from who knows what he went through.
> 
> Sometimes I don't get the attitude of some people. At the top of the forum on every page it specifically says to keep out rude tones and ask questions for more information rather to assume.
> 
> I think a lot of people fail to do that.


All we know is what she has posted. Nothing more, nothing less. I only shared HER threads, with HER comments. Period. 

TIme and time again this OP has been given advice, etc, and she does nothing after telling us how urgent the situation is, or he simply leaves us hanging. I think her threads show that she like a bit of drama, perhaps exagerates a little, and then-does NOTHING to better the situation. She is all talk. SHe gives us partial info to get us riled up, then goes away and waits a while before starting another thread, 

No offense to you, who think you are her friend, but you don't really know her. You know what she tells you over the net. No more, no less.

Noone here is being rude, we are being truthful. If she, or you cannot handle that, that is not our issue. I think we HAVE asked questions. I also think the OP didn't LIKE the questions we asked, so she, and perhaps you, think they are "rude". None of us like to see horses or any other animal not being cared for properly. As for saying in the beginning "no rude comments" that is NOT exactly what she said, BUT, this is a forum. People WILL post and give their thoughts and opinion. Whether you or she like it is, again, NOT our issue.

THe OP needs to stop being an alarmist unless she is willing or able to DO something about the situations she posts. It is an effort in futility for all of us. She also needs to get that colt gelded. If he is healthy enough for her to sit on, he is healthy enough to get gelded. Him getting "staph" has nothing to do with ANYTHING other than wound care. It doe not have any relation to him getting his shots.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Proud cut is a myth my dear, all these geldings would have to be cryptorchids, considering the odds of that, I doubt it. Read this & be educated http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/erl/PDF/Learnstall9_proudcut_apr09.pdf

More than likely, these mares are obese from the rich grass, that Oreo looks very cresty and in danger of founder, in fact I would be worried about all of them foundering. From your previous posts, you found an agreeable old guy that has property where horses can be kept and he has a few himself. He likes young girls around(dirty old man, but hopefully harmless?) and of course this attracts you because, lets face it, horses are fun to be around and he lets you indulge your passion. You got yourself a cheapy ungelded colt, call a vet & geld him before he gets out of that rickety fencing & breeds one of those fat mares & possibly injures himself in the process. Whatever sickness he has, I am sure the vet will clear it up with antibotics, then geld him. I think it is admirable that you are concerned for these horses, but there really isn't anything you can do, other than to geld your boy and move to a proper barn & observe how respectable horsepeople behave & keep horses.
Good Luck.


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

Nuala said:


> As for me not getting them vet checked...They are not my horses and to be perfectly honest I do not have the money for them. Four, including myself, experienced riders/trainers there see the same things I do and most of these mares have been in the pasture for most of their lives without getting THAT fat before. AGAIN as I said at the bottom of my Original post that I could just be seeing things.
> 
> The old perv bo is the same one I was talking about and he has been handled just because I did not post every detail because, as it is here, people were blowing things out of proportion doesnt mean I just sat idly by either. So do NOT assume you know me or the entirety of the situation.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the giggle on the above bolded....funny that you say that because my GELDING thinks he is a stallion and yes he has bred my Percheron mares, down to flagging and everything. Vet came out, ultra sounded for anything "hidden", blood tests done, etc...he is a gelding. If what you said had any validation, which it doesn't, BOTH my mares would be heavy in foal. I think you need to look up what "proud cut" really means...and it isn't that a gelding can reproduce.

Think I will go out and tell my now sedate gelding that if he had tried harder he could of been a daddy....


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

First thought when opening thread and seeing the mares "Oh my! Hickory looks in shape next to these ladies!" 

I'm not going to jump on anyone or get nasty, even though I very much agree with franknbeans and Chiilaa, while the property isn't your's and the horses aren't either.. YOU posted it on the internet, knowing how people will take things like the pasture, barbed wire, fat horses, and other things that immediately jump off of the page at people.. Don't act shocked and insulted about something you had to have seen coming. It's not your place but there are things you can do to change how things are there, just as franknbeans has posted above.. 

But acting shocked and "You're all meanie heads" posts isn't going to get any where but in an argument. By posting this thread you brought it upon yourself, I could have seen these comments coming a mile away... Then is goes into the fact that they aren't your horses to be posting pictures of in the first place.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

what a hell hole. I would be more concerned about all the junk laying around and horses getting injured


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

whether they are pregnant or not, none of us can tel you for sure through pictures and internet. the one to tell you would be a vet. i get it, not your horses, not your money to spend. so if you are worried about them and their health try to talk to the owners (dunno if you mentioned whether they were the BO or not hhmmm) and if you are concerned for their living conditions again talk to the owneres talk to the BO and if that doesnt work then report the BO to the authorities on acount of the mare you said was cut up and nothing was done for her. 

theres not much we can do for you here except state our own opinions on the horses and what not. what is said on here isnt law, it isnt written in stone and some of us will be wrong one way or the other. so dont take every post to heart and dont hold it as solid proof of everybodies opinions. 

yes things get heated here. you have people from all over the world, with different techniques, different opinions etc. but you gotta remember at the end of the day, that we are all strangers. we dont knw the situation back home and we dont know your particular beliefs, etc so somebody will say something that offends somebody and not know it.

i think that everybody on here is genuinely trying to help you and the horses. and if they get a little crass in their posts or jump to conclusions its because maybe they dont have the whole story.. and you cant blame them for that. theyre doing the best with what they are given. WE ARE ALL HUMAN we all say things/do things on spur of the moment and we have to remember that on a site like this....

sorry for the novel but i really do hope that those mares have no big health issues and that the situation with their healh/living conditions can improve.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Hell, the more I sit and think about it after seeing the pictures I'd go the property owner and tell him/her that you'll clean the pastures and remove the junk if you can take it to a scrap yard.. Scrap metal is pretty high priced here now and you could pocket a pretty nice piece of change from all that stuff and the horses would be better off.. I'd get it in writing before doing all of it but it's a win/win situation.

I won't even start on the barbed wire..


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

DrumRunner said:


> Hell, the more I sit and think about it after seeing the pictures I'd go the property owner and tell him/her that you'll clean the pastures and remove the junk if you can take it to a scrap yard.. Scrap metal is pretty high priced here now and you could pocket a pretty nice piece of change from all that stuff and the horses would be better off.. I'd get it in writing before doing all of it but it's a win/win situation.



Great idea Drum-there are your new fences, OP, and perhaps some vet care!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

No joke, there is a good bit of money sitting in that field. The cars, trailers, old tractor parts, tires, metal poles.. All of those things are money at a scrap yard... That's new fencing, vet care, and you'll get the "good deed of the week" award for doing a really beneficial thing for the over all situation.


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## Spirit Lifter (Apr 23, 2012)

I thought they all looked pregnant to me :hide:

UNTIL I saw lilkitty's post. GEEESH! Those are some FAT horses. :shock: Makes me want to get out and ride mine more as a preventive measure!!!!:-|


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

Drumrunners right! theres alot of money in old stuff like that

my papa has 8 rusty old cars just sitting in one of his fields and he was offered 20000 for them as long as he had no problem with the guy tearing up the field getting it all out!

good source of money there.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

OP I do have a question for you... So which is it? Your BO is afraid/turned off by women or is a pervert who keeps trying to get in your pants?


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> All we know is what she has posted. Nothing more, nothing less. I only shared HER threads, with HER comments. Period.
> 
> TIme and time again this OP has been given advice, etc, and she does nothing after telling us how urgent the situation is, or he simply leaves us hanging. I think her threads show that she like a bit of drama, perhaps exagerates a little, and then-does NOTHING to better the situation. She is all talk. SHe gives us partial info to get us riled up, then goes away and waits a while before starting another thread,
> 
> ...


You assume I meant that YOU were being rude or calling YOUR tone rude when I did not at all state that I thought you were.

But I would like to say, that in the same regard, you do not know her personally either any more than I do. I was simply stating that I have had more of a chance to chat with her one on one than you have. 

I also can vouch that she goes to school and has VERY limited time on her network which is shared in her household. 

That could be the reason it takes her a long time to respond and to finish threads or respond as often as some of us who have time at our leisure.

Please don't assume that I'm speaking to you if I'm not. I would quote you if I was speaking directly to your posts.

While I don't condone threatening to leave the forum when you don't agree with what is said, I also stand by my statement that I think sometimes people could be LESS rude and ask more questions.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> OP I do have a question for you... So which is it? Your BO is afraid/turned off by women or is a pervert who keeps trying to get in your pants?


No the BO is an old perv, one of the boarders of the fat horses is a gay man and doesn't like to talk about female reproduction organs. It was in the first post with the pictures.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

ND-I think it was one of the other OWNERS who is afraid of women. Not the BO. The BO is the perv.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Those horses do not look abused to me.
Yes some of that debris does need to be removed for safety purposes especially with foals coming.
As for the fencing barbed wire is widely used especially for those of us who do not own small properties of less than 200 acres, or by those that have cattle. The majority of horses in my area are contained with barbed wire fencing.
The Op has no obligation to care for any horses that are not hers.
They are simply not her concern.
Unless those horses have no access to food or water or Vet care then there is no reason to call animal control. Shalom


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

waresbear said:


> Proud cut is a myth my dear, all these geldings would have to be cryptorchids, considering the odds of that, I doubt it.


 THANK YOU!!

In my book, there are cryptorchids and there are botched gelding jobs. Anything else is a stallion or gelding.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> OP I do have a question for you... So which is it? Your BO is afraid/turned off by women or is a pervert who keeps trying to get in your pants?


I don't think the BO is the gay guy. I think she said the gay guy is one of the horse owner's who boards at the place.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

ThirteenAcres said:


> You assume I meant that YOU were being rude or calling YOUR tone rude when I did not at all state that I thought you were.
> 
> But I would like to say, that in the same regard, you do not know her personally either any more than I do. I was simply stating that I have had more of a chance to chat with her one on one than you have.
> 
> ...


That's fine, I WAS addressing YOU, which is why I quoted you. Perhaps, if her time is limited, she could finish one thread and try to let us know where we stand on that instead of going off on another tangent. We still have no resolution to her other threads, to my knowledge-she throws out an emotional thread title, and leaves us hanging.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Cryptorchid horses are sterile.

Cryptorchidism in the horse


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> Those horses do not look abused to me.
> Yes some of that debris does need to be removed for safety purposes especially with foals coming.
> As for the fencing barbed wire is widely used especially for those of us who do not own small properties of less than 200 acres, or by those that have cattle. The majority of horses in my area are contained with barbed wire fencing.
> The Op has no obligation to care for any horses that are not hers.
> ...


Barbed wire IS NOT widely used with horse owners who know what it will do and how deadly it can be and how unforgiving it is when a horse gets tangled in it. Especially so in Virginia, where I live. I have a total of 40 acres of land, 5 of it is BOARD fencing, as the rest of the land is forest. I know that board fence can be bad but I would rather take my chances with board than barbed wire. 

If the OP is so concerned but can't do anything, then either get the heck out of the situation and find more suitable accommodations for her horses or button it and stop posting photo's of other peoples horses and crappy conditions. If she doesn't have time to do much then why have so many horses? What if a true medical emergency with HER horses comes up? She says she has a pervert for a BO but "the situation is taken care of." I don't care what is going on, between that and the conditions, my horses are more important to me than anything else. 

So, either change things or stop whining.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

The 6666's ranch, Wt Waggonner estate the King Ranch all use barbed wire GS. Their broodmares and geldings are kept in large pastures.
with over 3,000 acres that my family owns and manages we use barbed wire except for my stallions 3 acre pen.
I am 52 in my lifetime we have never had a serious injury due to barbed wire. There are 27 horses here and over 100 head of cattle
If I had a small property of less than 200 acres i would probably not use barbed wire.
It is not the fence that is the problem it is overcrowding and or working livestock against the fence that causes injuries. Shalom


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I had to suture a pretty nasty laceration in one of my horses due to barbed wire. It never would have happened except that the neighbor's dog was chasing the horses and she panicked. In case anybody wonders, I didn't kill the dog. He was polite enough to run out in the highway on his way home............

Other than the dog incidence, we have never had a problem with barbed wire in the 30 years we've been here. If we had smaller acreage, maybe it would be feasible to rebuild the fence.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> That's fine, I WAS addressing YOU, which is why I quoted you. Perhaps, if her time is limited, she could finish one thread and try to let us know where we stand on that instead of going off on another tangent. We still have no resolution to her other threads, to my knowledge-she throws out an emotional thread title, and leaves us hanging.


I can't attest to that fact. I don't spend a whole lot of time keeping up with every thread that ONE member on this forum posts.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I have had many minor cuts and scrapes, and one bad tangle with barb. The worst fence related injuries I have seen are broken fence rails through shoulders and one horse who got tangled in smooth wire. If I have to have wire on my own property, I would pick the barb any day. Barb wire instantly hurts the horse, making them pull away and a lot of the time, this sharp, sudden ***** can stop them from getting tangle. Smooth wire doesn't hurt them until they are so tangled that they can't help but get severe lacerations. Hopefully I will be a millionaire though, and my fences will all be the very best that money can buy and no wire at all lol.


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> The 6666's ranch, Wt Waggonner estate the King Ranch all use barbed wire GS. Their broodmares and geldings are kept in large pastures.
> with over 3,000 acres that my family owns and manages we use barbed wire except for my stallions 3 acre pen.
> I am 52 in my lifetime we have never had a serious injury due to barbed wire. There are 27 horses here and over 100 head of cattle
> If I had a small property of less than 200 acres i would probably not use barbed wire.
> It is not the fence that is the problem it is overcrowding and or working livestock against the fence that causes injuries. Shalom


I am WELL aware of the 6666 Ranch, King Ranch and the Waggonner Estate as well. Both my QH have lines from their older stallions, they are also Texas born and raised too. Just because the "well known" ranches in Texas use barbed wire doesn't make it great or good. It makes them danged lucky. 

A good friend of mine had a mare try to jump a barbed wire fence, caught her arm pit of her front leg and fell on it, ripped muscle, tendons, and hide. Mare bled out and went down before the vet could do anything and to ease her suffering they shot her. My daughter was there, at the time she was 15 and she still has nightmares about it and the horror she saw. This was also in Texas.

My own gelding has a really nice area on his back flank where he got tangled up in a T-Post that held...barbed wire! He impaled himself on it and is lucky to be alive. 

Here are some:
http://www.horseproblems.com.au/Photo's/Veterinary Photos/Barbed wire injury.JPG

http://media.ehs.uen.org/html/HorseManagementQ2/Injuries_01/BarbedWireWound.jpg

Do a search on barbed wire injuries. Nothing you can say will EVER have me have it for a way to contain my horses. You too are very lucky you have never had any problems with barbed wire but I am an odd horsewoman, I wouldn't have horses at all, much less 4, if I couldn't provide the basics...food, housing, vet, and my time...and for me, that means good safe fencing. Barbed wire is not.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

my grandfather raised cattle on 600 plus acres. he didnt have the time or resources to try and get a wood fence or any other "safe fence" for his cattle and horses and they did fine. plenty of room they were very aware. he never had a serious mishap. i agree most of it is due to circumstances out of human control. a horse will hurt itself on any and everything.

my friends gelding was just euthanized because he got his leg caught in smooth wire and completely degloved his back hind from the hock to his hoof. 
you cant stop every incedent from happening. and barb wire imo is just as dangerous as anything else. if youre using it on 600 plus acres as my grandfather does i see no problem with it. but on the other hand i dont think its the most safe thing for a smaller pen.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Boy this is a mess isn't it? I haven't read all of the other threads but good lord.. If you have multiple problems like that simply move your horse. It's not a hard decision...But by you, OP, continuing to stay in that spot and in that messy situation you're putting yourself in that whole deal.. and you aren't helping yourself by going off on multiple directions about things and then posting pictures of someone else's horses in the conditions they are in and the state that the property is in... You need to worry about YOU and YOUR horse.

I refuse to use barbed wire..I agree that a horse will hurt itself on anything and everything they can find, but why in the world up the wager adding further "hazard" material like barbed wire to the mix..


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> I have had many minor cuts and scrapes, and one bad tangle with barb. The worst fence related injuries I have seen are broken fence rails through shoulders and one horse who got tangled in smooth wire. If I have to have wire on my own property, I would pick the barb any day. Barb wire instantly hurts the horse, making them pull away and a lot of the time, this sharp, sudden ***** can stop them from getting tangle. Smooth wire doesn't hurt them until they are so tangled that they can't help but get severe lacerations. Hopefully I will be a millionaire though, and my fences will all be the very best that money can buy and no wire at all lol.


I'd like someone to show me a type of fence that is 100% safe 100% of the time. Sure, barb wire is MORE dangerous, but horses can hurt themselves on ANY fencing and ANY item anywhere.

I have small grid livestock wire and electric tape. A determined or frightened horse can and will go through anything. They can even get fatally tangled in tape.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

To compare those huge well known ranches to this situation is, IMO a real leap. There is NO comparison. The ranches listed by DH (including her own)are hundreds or thousands of acres. This is not. I also doubt that those ranches have all sorts of old farm implements and vehicles rotting in the pastures to add danger.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

FrankNBeans I do agree that all that equipment in the pasture adds to the chance of injuries.
Greysorrel I too have a mare that was purchased elsewhere that has horrifiic scars probably from barbed wire.
I am not saying it cannot injure an animal but we allow at least an acre a horse in any pasture they are kept in.
Having barbed wire does not mean my horses are not well cared for.
If I were the OP I would not use my money to do any improvements on land that I did not own. Shalom


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## Rhen (Feb 20, 2012)

Again another one saying..............OMG the pasture is a fatality waiting to happen and a small lil one there!! Shame!!!



Im am speaking of the trucks and the junk in the pasture!! Although I dont like barbed wire either.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

You can play ignorant or that it is not your property up until now, but you have been warned. You have a responsibility to take care of your horse. It is absolutely your responsibility to keep your horses healthy and safe. Boarding is not an excuse to neglect your horse. 

I am in a boarding situation. I had a mare fall into a 5 ft deep dried up creek bed recently. It took very heroic measures to save her life. I didn't even know it was there...it was in a very wooded area and there have been horses there for years. I wasn't aware and the accident happened. Now I know, so it is my responsibility to keep my horses safe. I either have to fence that area off or fence my horses in. If I just turned them back out and hope for the best, it is neglect. If you turn your horses out in that crap now that you know better, it is clear cut neglect. It not being your property is no excuse. If your BO won't do anything, then you have to move your horses. NO if ands or buts about it. YOU are responsible for your horses and nobody else.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

For the property, junk and fences. If I understand it properly the BO leases that particular pasture and that junk belongs to the owner. I do know know the owner so I can not make an agreement with him. Barbwire is pretty much the only thing used here, even the upity $400 a week english jumper facility has barbed. I can only think of maybe 5 or 6 places in the county that I have seen that have slat fencing and board fences are usually only on colt braking pens.

I was not whining or complaining about the property or the situation and I only addressed my concern about the keep of the property and care of the animals AFTER it was brought up by someone else. I have also gone through a lot to clean up the property and no it is still nowhere near what I would consider acceptable but it is affordable and close enough to town that I can see my horses. Lecturing and ranting at me will get you nowhere. you might as well march up here and try to deal with the BO on your own. No I do not sit idly by but I can only do so much with my limited time out there and I would rather spend it working with and caring for the horses. 

Yes they belong to others but I have still come to love them and one will hopefully eventually be mine. 

Yes I will have to go through my previous threads and update them. I have a tendency to not reply to a post if my temper has gotten the better of me and I feel that my comments will only worsen the situation. The reason why I said that I was done with this post was not for that but for the fact that others feel superior and are taking it off on tangents about how I am novice and naive. Telling me that I am wrong about all of the horses even though two of them are very fit. One of those who I have been told is "just looks morbidly obese" is conformed in foal before she ever got to the property. I compared the other mares udders to her and they were nearly matched in swelling. I took a lot of consideration before even contemplating posting this and was asked to get pictures by someone in chat so I did. The reason why I am so disgusted with this sites members at the moment is that this post went form "hey I'm a little concerned about these mares" to "you are a stupid and neglectful owner" No those were not the exact words but that is how it reads over the internet.

Before you say anything about this post remember it was about the mares. NOT the property not me and not 'this is what I think of you', if that is all your opinion is worth then please do not share it here. This is not at anyone directly but at how the thread has turned and why I desire nothing more to do with the forums. It was an educated concern from what I have seen of these mares over the last 6 months. 

franknbeans - I never said that I got my stud in May I simply posted the thread in May and specifically said that 'he is doing much better since I got him' implying he had already improved when I posted the thread. My other thread about him was suppose to be linked back to it as an update and I apologize for not getting that taken care of sooner if it 'left you hanging on an emotional thread'


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

also as for the colt I have asked that him and his mother and the mare that for sure is in foal get brought in from the heard. He still has his umbilical cord and needs to be handled and checked by a vet but they BO and the owners do not seem concerned. My special concern is that the BO knows a coyote frequents the ranch. But again that is out of my hands.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

The pasture is full of junk which is dangerous. That problem does need to be addressed.

On the other hand, these horses are obviously getting to eat well. Sure they are too fat, but have you ever seen the other extreme? Starved out horses are much more of a concern than overweight horses. Most of these horses would do great with a few weeks of exercise.


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

People tend to fly off the handle on here it's pretty annoying...
I need to figure out how to disable the constant emails I get from this thread everytime someone wants to post. Ugh!


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

You know what, if I don't like the color of your fence and you aren't posting about it, I'm not going to say anything. If I see horses in an unsafe situation, then I feel that I can post away even if it is off topic....actually, I feel that is my obligation. 

Also, why are you upset that people do not agree with you about the mares being pregnant. It is not a good thing to breed a bunch of backyard off-springs that nobody wants. Past the cute baby part, what do you think will happen to those babies? The horse market is in the dirt. Why would anyone hope for a foal that nobody, including the owners, isn't going to want?


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

Jewelsb said:


> People tend to fly off the handle on here it's pretty annoying...
> I need to figure out how to disable the constant emails I get from this thread everytime someone wants to post. Fml
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


it is under notification setting on your user cp


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

sandy2u1 said:


> You know what, if I don't like the color of your fence and you aren't posting about it, I'm not going to say anything. If I see horses in an unsafe situation, then I feel that I can post away even if it is off topic....actually, I feel that is my obligation.
> 
> Also, why are you upset that people do not agree with you about the mares being pregnant. It is not a good thing to breed a bunch of backyard off-springs that nobody wants. Past the cute baby part, what do you think will happen to those babies? The horse market is in the dirt. Why would anyone hope for a foal that nobody, including the owners, isn't going to want?


As stated in the OP at least three of those mares are papered however it is that if they sire if they are pregnant is. I am not upset with the fact that they are disagreeing with me it is the way they state it and that is the only thing i have commented on I was told to compare to the mare that was nursing which is different from a mare who has never been breed before and yes I am upset for people saying that I am wrong about the mare who is proven pregnant. It says in the original post that she is and yet they insist to say that I dont know what I am talking about. I am upset at the blank arrogance of those who assume they know everything from the pictures so they do not need to read the post. The fence, while is hasnt been tightened in a year or so, is not dangerous, the junk is mostly cars and trucks and what else does not have such sharp corners and no it is not your obligation. You do not board there and you are not forced to look at the pictures. Yes it is concerning but there is not much you can do and trying to insult someone who doesnt care for belligerent opinions is going to get you know where. everyone has obviously stated their concern and it is settled that everyone disagrees with the horses being kept in that particular pasture. And unsafe? really? the fact that we own horses is 'unsafe' for both them and us. We can feed them the wrong thing, trim their hooves to far, leave a gate unlatched. The other lady that takes care of the horses with me lost her horse because he fell through ice, so are we going to take away their water and winter because of it?


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

Just wanted to make sure this post wasn't overlooked!
It's unbelievable how many people I hear talking about this or that 'proud cut' gelding.




waresbear said:


> Proud cut is a myth my dear, all these geldings would have to be cryptorchids, considering the odds of that, I doubt it. Read this & be educated http://www.cvmbs.colostate.edu/bms/erl/PDF/Learnstall9_proudcut_apr09.pdf


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

Being papered does not mean that they should be bred. And what about the stud...is he breeding quality?

I have to laugh at your explanation about why it is ok to be neglectful to your horses. You are so right...it is perfectly ok to put my horses in a junkyard death trap with horrible fencing, because having horses is risky business :lol:. Seriously? You are comparing true accidents to neglect? I once saw a horse rip his hoof off because it got stuck in the bumper of a car. You are seriously ****ing me off.

Yes, there is always a risk. Does that give us permission to put them in crappy situations.....I think not. Your crappy fencing and your crappy pasture is putting your horses at unnecessary risk. If you are good with putting your horse in that situation, then fine, but don't come crying to me when your horse cripples himself because you feel that it is ok for him to be pastured in a junkyard.


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## Nuala (Jan 2, 2012)

sandy2u1 said:


> Being papered does not mean that they should be bred. And what about the stud...is he breeding quality?
> 
> I have to laugh at your explanation about why it is ok to be neglectful to your horses. You are so right...it is perfectly ok to put my horses in a junkyard death trap with horrible fencing, because having horses is risky business :lol:. Seriously? You are comparing true accidents to neglect? I once saw a horse rip his hoof off because it got stuck in the bumper of a car. You are seriously ****ing me off.
> 
> Yes, there is always a risk. Does that give us permission to put them in crappy situations.....I think not. *Your* crappy fencing and *your* crappy pasture is putting your horses at unnecessary risk. If you are good with putting *your* horse in that situation, then fine, but don't come crying to me when your horse cripples himself because you feel that it is ok for him to be pastured in a junkyard.


READ THE THREAD AGAIN!!! NOT MY HORSES AND NOT MY PASTURE. you all see junk the whole point of me saying leave it be is not that there isnt some risk but that it is not a junk yard in the sense of what you all are looking at from a blurred perspective. It is not YOUR obligation because it is the obligation of those who board their animals there. Do not think that I am nonchalant about the situation. But do not call one person abusive or neglectful in a situation that you do not fully understand. And I'M ****ING YOU OFF? I dont give to ticks. You came in "oh if your going to treat your horses that way I'm going to slander you, I HAVE THE RIGHT!!!" well you dont you do not have the right to cross those lines. And one of my horses is a cripple because he was born that way and the breeder neglected to pay to get it fixed so it became a true problem. There are lots of forms of neglect keeping horses with equipment that they know is there I least of them. These horses have 120 total acres they choose to walk there and as I said they are Rarely in there. I never said it was ok I simply said it wasnt your place to go slandering ME.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Nuala said:


> READ THE THREAD AGAIN!!! NOT MY HORSES AND NOT MY PASTURE.


No, but you MADE it your business when you chose to cross those lines and post pictures and information about some else's property and horses. If you really want to get into it, you had NO right to even do that. They aren't YOUR horses, they aren't your business, they aren't your responsibility, but by taking all of this in your hands and running with it you are putting yourself in that "responsible" role and you are going to be the one to hear the comments that people are posting. And because you are there in that situation and see the things that are wrong and you are hearing ways that it can be fixed you are still doing nothing..I'm sorry, but it isn't just an "I can't do anything, my hands are tied" situation. If you don't like it or the area the horses are in DO SOMETHING about it and stop whining about it to people on an open forum to get attention. Period.. Don't expect "poor me" and "So cute ponies!" comments, because you aren't going to get those. That is a poor excuse of a turn out area, even if they are "rarely" in that area, they still have access to that area and it is NOT suitable for horses, much less possibly pregnant mares and the mare and foal already on the property. Fence off the access to that area, easy fix..It's really not that complicated. If you don't want to hear the TRUTH from concerned and responsible horse owners don't post threads with titles and topics that are screaming for attention. You bring this on yourself.


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## Walk It Out (Jun 26, 2012)

I would NEVER let my horse go out in that feild. Or even be there with the perv owner. I cant believe even after he done that with your zipper, you still stayed there! I woulda punched him right between the eyes, loaded up my horses, and got the heck outta dodge. This is completely crazy. If you really cared about your horses, you would think about their safety and moved them. Oh, and your boyfriend, how do you think he's gonna feel when he gets back and hears some old guy played with your zipper, and was wanting you to do things with him? Or are you even going to tell him? Hah. this makes me sick. I woulda told my boyfriend, so he coulda beatthe crap out of him, and to help find somewhere else to put them. And if i was you, i wouldnt think about buying the other horse, take care of the ones you own now. Im not even 18, and by god, i have a better grip on things than this. *shakes head*


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

You made a few statements that bother me. You are working with someone elses horses , yet you do not know who owns them? The BO wont give you thier names- not a suprise. The pasture is not yours, full of old cars,farm equipment . metal post, But iis better than being loose on the hwy / road?? why would they be loose on any road ? Those mares are not bagged, and the one does not look like wax. The male owner (gay as you had to point out) is not dealing with a Woman, ITs a HORSE. And why would you assume Women make him uncomftorable . Proud cut, makes a horse act study, and usually part of vas deferns has been left and they usually do not produce sperm. I have a 30 yr old gelding that gets a stiffy and tries to breed the mares. A Chriptorcid could produce sperm. ( means he has a retained testes, as it never dropped) Any Vet gelding a criptorchid would go into the body cavity and remove it. If the foal has been foaled in area that was clean, and is not in a lot of poop, he could be fine. The umbilical will dry and fall off, you do not remove them. You are setting yourself up for lots of trouble messing with other peoples horses without express permission


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

enh817 said:


> Just wanted to make sure this post wasn't overlooked!
> It's unbelievable how many people I hear talking about this or that 'proud cut' gelding.


I did see it and considered posting something similar as I once had a colt who needed abdominal surgery for a retained teste. But everyone else is having such a good time I figured why put the truth out there :lol::wink:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Well this thread sure backfired... :/


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

DimSum said:


> I did see it and considered posting something similar as I once had a colt who needed abdominal surgery for a retained teste. But everyone else is having such a good time I figured why put the truth out there :lol::wink:


Interesting. In Australia I've tended to find the term "proud cut" applied to late cut geldings or geldings who show stallion tendencies (but are definitely geldings and not crypts - randy geldings, you might call them). Generally crypts are referred to as "rigs" here, unless anyone's being formal.

As I understand, bilateral crypts (both testicles retained in the body) are almost always infertile (IIRC it's something to do with the internal body heat destroying any sperm that may be produced), unilateral crypts (monorchids - where one testicle is descended) can be fertile though.

I've heard horror stories about how much ops cost - and some where it has fused to an organ (kidneys etc) and can't be removed.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> Interesting. In Australia I've tended to find the term "proud cut" applied to late cut geldings or geldings who show stallion tendencies (but are definitely geldings and not crypts - randy geldings, you might call them). Generally crypts are referred to as "rigs" here, unless anyone's being formal.
> 
> As I understand, bilateral crypts (both testicles retained in the body) are almost always infertile (IIRC it's something to do with the internal body heat destroying any sperm that may be produced), unilateral crypts (monorchids - where one testicle is descended) can be fertile though.
> 
> I've heard horror stories about how much ops cost - and some where it has fused to an organ (kidneys etc) and can't be removed.


I imagine that the terms have slightly different meanings depending on where you live. Yes, a crypt can be fertile if you leave the descended teste intact but if you geld him the other teste won't produce viable sperm only the hormones that make a male act studdy. I was lucky, my colt only required minor surgery as the pesky teste was located just above the inguinal ring. He still had to go to the clinic and stay there for a week.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Nuala said:


> READ THE THREAD AGAIN!!! NOT MY HORSES AND NOT MY PASTURE. you all see junk the whole point of me saying leave it be is not that there isnt some risk but that it is not a junk yard in the sense of what you all are looking at from a blurred perspective. It is not YOUR obligation because it is the obligation of those who board their animals there. Do not think that I am nonchalant about the situation. But do not call one person abusive or neglectful in a situation that you do not fully understand. And I'M ****ING YOU OFF? I dont give to ticks. You came in "oh if your going to treat your horses that way I'm going to slander you, I HAVE THE RIGHT!!!" well you dont you do not have the right to cross those lines. And one of my horses is a cripple because he was born that way and the breeder neglected to pay to get it fixed so it became a true problem. There are lots of forms of neglect keeping horses with equipment that they know is there I least of them. These horses have 120 total acres they choose to walk there and as I said they are Rarely in there. I never said it was ok I simply said it wasnt your place to go slandering ME.


So, where are your horses on this property? They are not in this pasture? What is it EXACTLY you feel you "HAVE THE RIGHT" to do? Show pictures of others land and horses without their permission? Keep horses in an unsafe situation? I am just trying to understand. 

Yes, you are right, in that it IS the obligation of the owners who keep their horses there. However, if they are neglectful, which, keeping horses in a pasture filled with dangerous sharp object can be considered, then it becomes a matter for the authorities. I know-you have said they do nothing. Then perhaps you have not tried hard enough and followed through, like you have a tendency to do, judging from the trend I see in your other threads. 

You say these horses are "rarely in there"-yet they have worn a path in the grass. Look at YOUR pictures. As far as cars etc not being dangerous? Again-look at YOUR pictures. The one picture clearly shows an older red vehicle with the drivers side of the bumper looking like it is just waiting for a horse to get hung up, and the picture of "Oreo" as you call her, standing by the "for sale" sign you can clearly see that the stake right by her is a great thing for a horse to be impaled on. That one is a simple fix. Pull out the stake. I could go on and on.

I would rather have NO horses than to have to keep mine in a place like you keep yours in. And as far as the "uppity" barn-why would you call them "uppity"? Was the label really necessary? It just ****es people off. Does the fact that many of us only have as many horses as we can afford to keep safely make us "uppity"?

You bring most of the trouble on yourself by what you post. No one is "slandering" you. That just made me laugh.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

Ok, guys. I think that we've given our advice to the OP and she has taken what she wants from it.


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