# red roan



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Our mares papers says shes sorrel- she is definitely red- but she has lots of roans on her papers! Lots!

i noticed her legs from the knee and hocks down are darker red than her body- shes got white hairs intermixed throughout her whole body not noticeable till you get close and some spots have more than others (patches of white intermixing hairs)

her mane on the natural side is kinda orangish- the middle is white hairs (lots) and when i flip her mane (underneath) theres a white line where her body and mane (crest) starts about an inch thick then her mane goes to an orangy deep red with white hairs mix. Her tail has white in it too.


Ill take pictures tomorrow- this will be my motivation so i dont forget about it, lol. 

Im thinkin shes definitely a red roan just one that hasent got many white intermixed hairs.. i dont know much about roaning- she dont get darker if she scrapes her hair off and is a little older (14-16) and i notice the white hairs are back fuller this year than they were last year and her mane has crazy white hairs now too. 

She also gets dapples when her winter coat sheds off and counter shading sometimes too.


Whats the minimal 'roan' a horse can be? 

Would it be Some form of sabino that causes roaning or is it somethin all on its own?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

What are her parents' colors? One of them has to be roan for her to even possibly be roan. Roan doesn't skip a generation and it doesn't hide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Ill have to look at her papers- i cant remember off the top of my head.. dont believe theyre roans though.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

It would be good to know what the papers say her parents were, but they could say the wrong color too. Papers aren't always a reflection of reality.  I would say, from your description, she sounds roan, but pictures would be necessary to actually say much. Far away and close up to show the hairs too.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

We need a picture!
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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Will definitely get some pictures- shes a nice horse.. ill make sure to get close ups of the roaning and her mane and tail and legs. 

To be truthful i couldnt even tell ya the names of her sire and dam- i only seen her papers a few times- first time i heard of a palomino roan is all i can really remember, lol.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

It's not uncommon for a red based horse to have a fair amount of white ticking, even in the absence of a roan gene.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

These aint the best photos- somethins up with my camera.. :hide: and i was being harassed for treats and lovins from our other horse, lol. 










^ close up of white patch- this spot and a few others have the most white hairs intermixed- theyre all intermixed throughout though










^ mane










^ better shot of the coloring in the mane











^ crest & neck- i dont know whats up with the resolution of the photos but even in this one you can see the white intermixing hairs but now that i uploaded to photobucket theyre gone? 


Ill get leg pictures later.


~Edited to add more pictures~









^ another neck & crest










^ another mane shot


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

^ her dapples starting- theyll be more vivid this summer- the black dots are flies, lol. But you can see the white hairs all over her body in this one











^ sorry the dh s geldings junk is in the picture- but you can see how her mane colors layer- there are so many colors in there!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Not roan, IMO. Just typical sorrel flecking. My grandmothers haflinger gelding is DEFINTELY not roan and he has a ton more white hairs than your mare.
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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

What kassierae said. Most definitely not roan. Just normal sorrel ticking. Every sorrel/chestnut I've seen has had it to some degree.
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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Kassierae- i dont know much about haflingers but the few ive seen have whats called 'pangere' lighter manes tales bellies and insides of legs and feet. I dont think my mare has pangere- she does change her colors with the seasons and is at her lightest right now- shes almost chestnut but you can still see the red- like ronald mcdonald red hair, lol. 

She will darken up this summer and her dapples will show a lot.. her legs are darker than her body too- if it helps any.. i need to trim her up and take quick pics.. if the sneaky snake gelding leaves us alone.. hate to chase him off but hes a pest!


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I know what pangare is, lol. It doesn't cause the white ticking, it lightens the muzzle and soft points, sometimes up onto the belly, very similarly to brown. Moose looks like he could pass for a red roan, which he is not. Sorrels and chestnuts very commonly get white ticking, some can appear roan but they are not.
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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Sorry- i wasnt trying to belittle you or anything.

i do agree with you to an extent- if she didnt have the roans on her papers i would say so.. you think maybe just rabicano? Its not in her flanks as much though.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

She can only be a roan if one of her direct parents are a roan. Grandparents colors don't matter unless they passed it on to one of her parents. Roan doesn't skip generations.
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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I also agree that she's likely not carrying a roan gene. Pretty typical ticking, IMHO. I've got a Belgian that has more ticking than that and has a ton on her face (which a true roan gene wouldn't do).


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Not true roan. Looks to be just white ticking common in red based horses.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I would like to see a body shot of her when she is all dappled. I bet she is very pretty.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Thank-yall. 

I was wonderin about the roan thing- if it could be possible if her sire or dam wasnt roan.

Belgian sorrel, lol. I didnt know thats what it would be- ive seen red belgians that did have the white in the mane like hers and yes her face has it too spreadin from her facial marking.

What is the white ticking caused by? Some kind of sabino? Shes solid except for face marking.. no socks or anything- and is black skinned.

Ill be sure to post more pics this year of her- shes gorgeous when shes all dark and dappled up.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

It's just something a lot of red horses do.

Sabino wouldn't cause that without EXTREME amounts of white-- high socks, belly white, etc. 

Sabino likes crazy socks and symmetrical blazes. Splash likes weird blazes and straight socks. Frame likes faces but hates legs. (In a nutshell)
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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

She has a flaxen mane. That's why its "white" and a whole lot lighter then the rest of her body.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

MangoRoX87 said:


> It's just something a lot of red horses do.
> 
> Sabino wouldn't cause that without EXTREME amounts of white-- high socks, belly white, etc.
> 
> ...



I thought sabino was an overo with ticking- splash was high whites bald face- and frame overo (lwo) was white stretching horizontally, and rarely crossin the back- tobiano was known for rounded color patches and vertical white, known for coming up the hindquarters and crossing the back? Basics- ive seen frame overo horses that were solid, and that had 3 socks, etcetra..


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

CLaPorte432 said:


> She has a flaxen mane. That's why its "white" and a whole lot lighter then the rest of her body.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Wouldnt flaxen be white or very light? Her mane is red like her body and the top is lighter red middle is white and bottom is lightest shade of red- her tail is a very dark red with white hairs on the outsides and darkest shades of red in the middle. 

If her mane was lighter id say she was a chestnut- right?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Where are NDappy and Chillaa at when you need them? Taking a break from their duties as on call colour experts?
Not that the rest of you are not knowledgeable but if those two chime in I dont read the whole thread.
Does rabicano skip a generation? I dont think this mare is a rabicano and agree she is a sorrel with white. Shalom


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

toto said:


> Wouldnt flaxen be white or very light? Her mane is red like her body and the top is lighter red middle is white and bottom is lightest shade of red- her tail is a very dark red with white hairs on the outsides and darkest shades of red in the middle.
> 
> If her mane was lighter id say she was a chestnut- right?


she is still a chestnut, but her mane is flaxen. Which means she carries the gene that lightens a mane and tail. Even though her tail may be the same color as her body. flaxen ddoesn't mean "white" like your thinking, like a Palomino's mane. It can range in shades from super light, to just a shade lighter then the body, and it can have different shade in it as well.
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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

My very dark BA Brown has a fair amount of white ticking and is absolutely the farthest thing from a roan as possible. So it is not just common in red horses! Common in horses!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sorrel and chestnut are both red. Shade makes no difference in that. 

All red horses have some amount of white ticking throughout their bodies. 

To be roan a horse MUST have a roan parent. Just like grey it doesn't hide or skip generations.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

Red Roan

http://eveningstarranch.tripod.com/mhbr/stock/images/quarter-horse-roan-red.jpg


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

NDappy to the rescue.
Could it be a form of rabicano and does that skip a generation? Shalom


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Without seeing the horse in question, I really wouldn't hazard a guess. I don't believe that rabicano skips generations, but it can be very minimal.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Boo Walker said:


> Red Roan
> 
> http://eveningstarranch.tripod.com/mhbr/stock/images/quarter-horse-roan-red.jpg


^pretty!

I was only curious after seeing darker variations of red roan like this one..


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

CLaPorte432 said:


> she is still a chestnut, but her mane is flaxen. Which means she carries the gene that lightens a mane and tail. Even though her tail may be the same color as her body. flaxen ddoesn't mean "white" like your thinking, like a Palomino's mane. It can range in shades from super light, to just a shade lighter then the body, and it can have different shade in it as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I call a 'chestnut' lighter than a 'sorrel' i do realize theyre both ee and technically the same color ones just darker and im just weird- i like to specify, lol. 

Can a sorrel be flaxen sorrel? she has a few white hairs in her tail but her mane has gotten super light this year- itll be darker this summer though.. ill update- its crazy! Lol.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes a sorrel can be flaxen.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

The funny thing about the roan gene is that you can never be certain just how much roaning a horse will have. Some have very little like this guy









and others are so roaned out that they look almost gray.

Take this horse for example, it's a colt by one of my favorite studs of all time and it's definitely a chestnut roan.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

toto said:


> I call a 'chestnut' lighter than a 'sorrel' i do realize theyre both ee and technically the same color ones just darker and im just weird- i like to specify, lol.
> 
> Can a sorrel be flaxen sorrel? she has a few white hairs in her tail but her mane has gotten super light this year- itll be darker this summer though.. ill update- its crazy! Lol.


Lol, I call horses sorrel if they have a more orange tint to their coat. And horses are chestnut to me if they are darker and with more red to their coat. Still e/e, but just what iI was raised saying.

i have never called mare chilly a chestnut, she's always been a flaxen sorrel to me. She has a super blonde mane that matches me hair. 

I also distinguish chestnut/sorrel with what breed the horse is. Thoroughbreds and warmbloods are always chestnut to me. Most stock horses are sorrels and any horse with the flaxen gene is a sorrel to me. LoL. But they are all genetically the same. Its just silly sometimes. 
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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

toto said:


> Can a sorrel be flaxen sorrel?.


Since chestnut and sorrel are identical genetically, they are subject to all the same genetic modifiers, which includes flaxen and sooty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Lol, I call horses sorrel if they have a more orange tint to their coat. And horses are chestnut to me if they are darker and with more red to their coat. Still e/e, but just what iI was raised saying.
> 
> i have never called mare chilly a chestnut, she's always been a flaxen sorrel to me. She has a super blonde mane that matches me hair.
> 
> ...



ooh- youre opposite of me, lol. I guess theres no wrong way to eat a Reese's though- right? Lol.  

My mares mane is red with white in the middle and the same color as her body hairs in there too- she looks like shes been to the salon, lol. Im actually kinda jealous! 


youre me in an alternate universe! :rofl:


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Toto, my friend's very red chestnut Arab gelding has the same thing going on with his mane. She also had an Arab mare who looked like she had gotten highlights done in her mane. I have pics of them somewhere so you can see.
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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Truthfully, I'd just say that the white hairs in his mane are just part of who he is as a chestnut and they aren't being caused by any particular gene (not one that's been identified anyway).

My chestnut draft cross (who _isn't_ flaxen) has started developing some white ticking in his coat in the last year (he turns 4 in July) and he's started to get the white hairs in his mane as well...that he didn't have a year ago. I actually pulled one of his hairs out today that was red for about 3 inches and then transitioned to sort of a clear color and then to white. It was like a person who needs a dye job because their roots are showing LOL.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Toto, my friend's very red chestnut Arab gelding has the same thing going on with his mane. She also had an Arab mare who looked like she had gotten highlights done in her mane. I have pics of them somewhere so you can see.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thats awesome! Yes please- i love the horsey pictures!! :thumbsup:


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

smrobs said:


> Truthfully, I'd just say that the white hairs in his mane are just part of who he is as a chestnut and they aren't being caused by any particular gene (not one that's been identified anyway).
> 
> My chestnut draft cross (who _isn't_ flaxen) has started developing some white ticking in his coat in the last year (he turns 4 in July) and he's started to get the white hairs in his mane as well...that he didn't have a year ago. I actually pulled one of his hairs out today that was red for about 3 inches and then transitioned to sort of a clear color and then to white. It was like a person who needs a dye job because their roots are showing LOL.


Thats cool- just wonderin.


Hey- thats what most of my hair looks like too, lol. I need a dye job!  very interesting how they can be born with such fabulous hair! I guess us humans can be too.. just not me.. Im goin grey!


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