# Bumpy, flaky armpits?



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

What does she sleep on? There's not a lot of hair in that area for protection so deep soft bedding is needed.


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## BarrelracingwithSkipper (Sep 25, 2014)

Any pictures?


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

It could possibly be from the pressure of her heel when she is lying down or simply from lying on a hard or rough surface


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## aclassicalpaint (Feb 11, 2015)

The ground in my part of the state is inherently dry and hard. She does need more shavings (I use fine pine) but I've owned her for 2 years and it has always been like this. She's always had a nice soft are to rest and a rubber mat. 

It's dark out now, so I can get some more pictures tomorrow. But this is her armpit, excuse the cut - which has since been washed with antibacterial soap and sprayed with Vetericyn.


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## Audsta (May 25, 2015)

Maybe it's just severe dry skin, and it's so dry that it's causing cracks that turn into sores.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

GThat looks like a couple things and one aggravates the other:

1. Fly bites and those small biting flies like Midges are great for landing in that area and biting.

2. The horse in turn bites itself because the skin itches. That is such a sensitive area (thin skin), the horse can easily bite itself raw.

3. Then comes the sucking flies who land on the open wounds to do their thing which, starts the horse biting itself again. It's a vicious circle until the area can get cleared up.

I agree to keep it as clean as possible. Pat dry (the skin can be damp get whatever kind of antibiotic ointment you have at home and buy some mineral oil.

Apply the antibiotic ointment to the open sores, then gently rub mineral oil over them and also anywhere her skin appears to be dry.

Use ointment instead of cream as it stays on better. If she licks the ointment off, it shouldn't hurt her; none of my horses have ever gotten sick from doing that

Horses get tubed with a mix of mineral oil when they colic, so that won't hurt her either. It will help keep her skin moist and hopefully stop drying out.

More is not better, just apply a thin covering of the mineral oil on the dry armpit areas.

I have one horse that was like that when I first bought him. He ended up developing insulin resistance and I had to seriously change his diet. 

One day it hit me, that his armpit area didn't get dry and flaky anymore so, he was lacking something in the vit/min department as he hasn't had grain since 2007.

He is a horse that alfalfa spikes his insulin so his hay is locally grown orchard mix. Hay type shouldn't make a difference with dry armpits but these days, I don't discount anything:-(

When he comes in at night, he is also on mats and bagged, kiln dried shavings. Sometimes the shavings can aggravate these things if they are poor quality.

I hope this helps and things get resolved soon


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

My mare had the exact same thing when I got her- It almost appeared to be rain rot, but the vet told me it wasn't It never seemed to bother her though. I started putting desitin on it, the kind with 40% zinc oxide. It cleared it right up. Now I use an antimicrobial spray made my Mane and Tail. I spray it on that area every other day and it has kept it away.


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## aclassicalpaint (Feb 11, 2015)

Thank you both! 
I had no idea that could make them develop insulin resistance! I'll begin treating it right away. Also, I have her in a fly sheet to hopefully reduce any bugs from getting to her.
I just looked up Desitin, is this what you used? 
http://www.medshopexpress.com/85110...=18283950120&gclid=CJiyzJrJ88UCFdgQgQodi18ASw


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

It doesn't make them develop IR it's just that many IR horses seem to be really sensitive to bug bites and other allergy things. Not really sure why other than their system is a little wonky and not working just right.

Desitin is diaper rash creme. The old fashioned sticky kind in the tube works best. The name brand doesn't really matter so much as those ingredients you see listed there. A+D ointment is another brand name that's been around forever. Both were around when my mom was a kid. Stuff from the dollar store usually works just as well.


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

aclassicalpaint said:


> I just looked up Desitin, is this what you used?
> DESITIN Maximum Strength Original Paste - 1 OZ


Yep, that's it. But like SueNH said, the generic stuff works just as good. Just make sure it's 40% zinc oxide. I get the $1 tube from Dollar General now.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Don't want to butt in, op, but oddly enough my mare has developed sore armpits seemingly overnight, so I thought I'd post in this "armpit" thread rather than starting another. She has very fine skin between her front legs, and a lot of it, so she has a lot of folds down there. This morning she had big open sores on both sides, I put zinc oxide ointment with aloe on it, and this afternoon it looks a bit better, at least not so uncomfortable. She also has a similar sore strip down the centre of her lower belly, from umbilicus to udder. 

Interesting you say that IR horses are more susceptible to developing this kind of thing,SueNH. My mare has metabolic issues, probably IR though not tested. Poor thing, she has a lot on her plate: diet issues, hoof issues, now skin issues too. Is this presumably a reaction to fly bites? And what about the line on her belly, is this another sensitive area?


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

That is called Sweet Itch and is caused by the bites of Midge flies.

My Arab fought sweet itch almost his entire life, until I double dosed him with pure Ivermectin :shock:

BUT he did not have insulin issues. My IR horse is on prescription meds for his high insulin so, I don't even do a standard de-worming without taking a fecal sample to the vet and getting his input. 

however, if your horse is not on any sort of meds for anything and she weighs at least 1,000 pounds, you might think about buying two tubes of pure Ivermectin and putting them both down her at the same time.

If you do, be prepared for her to get absolutely miserable 48-72 hours, once the microfiliae, aka Neck thread worms, aka Onchocerca worms, start to die off.

If she gets too miserable, shampoo her in an anti-microbial shampoo, and put a sheet on her, even if you have to borrow one.

Keep her belly slathered with diaper rash cream. I use walMart brand. The 40% zinc oxide will help heal, the diaper rash cream will stay on a long time and act like a fly trap when the Midges try to land

Sweet Icth is horrible. I once read there was a point in time, in the UK. That horses were quarantined if they had sweet itch. It can spread across the neck, back, and butt of the horse almost before your very eyes:shock:

Plus, in really bad cases, SOME horses with uveitis have it because the neck threadworms are capable of migrating into the eye.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Bug bites. That line on her belly is a dead giveaway. That's usually the first place my old one starts. No armpit irritation though but my little IR mare has a curly coat and that's one of the last places she looses her long winter hair. 

I'd have thought the heat wold have calmed the bugs down for you but with your mild seasons you probably have biting things I never dreamed of.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

SueNH said:


> Bug bites. That line on her belly is a dead giveaway. That's usually the first place my old one starts. No armpit irritation though but my little IR mare has a curly coat and that's one of the last places she looses her long winter hair.
> 
> I'd have thought the heat wold have calmed the bugs down for you but with your mild seasons you probably have biting things I never dreamed of.


Amen:-(

We have had horrible humidity already. My IR had sweat running off his back in mini streams a few days back.

When he sweats like that, the fly spray is worthless:-(


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

SueNH said:


> Bug bites. That line on her belly is a dead giveaway. That's usually the first place my old one starts. No armpit irritation though but my little IR mare has a curly coat and that's one of the last places she looses her long winter hair.


I'm glad you think that points to midge bites rather than neck threadworms. She always has an itchy tail, rather worse recently, but she hasn't developed any sores there. Her neck is fine and non-itchy, so this combined with the itchy butt does seem to indicate sweet itch, now I've read up about it.



SueNH said:


> I'd have thought the heat would have calmed the bugs down for you but with your mild seasons you probably have biting things I never dreamed of.


We're actually enjoying a mild (not hot) spring, with unusual quantities of rain, so this must favour the midges (yet I haven't noticed many, and it's hard not to notice midges if they're active lol). We have annoying biting flies that look much like house flies that bother the horses a lot. Maybe they are guilty parties? Or do only those specific culicoid midges cause the allergic reaction?


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

walkinthewalk said:


> That is called Sweet Itch and is caused by the bites of Midge flies.
> 
> My Arab fought sweet itch almost his entire life, until I double dosed him with pure Ivermectin :shock:
> 
> ...


What you are describing is not sweet itch - firstly sweet itch is an allergic reaction to a particular type of midge found in the UK and in parts of Australia, it is not contagious but very unsightly and is considered a condition that must be declared during the sale of the horse, I have never heard of any being quarantined and I'm English and worked in the equine industry for over 40 years. You certainly will not cure it with Ivermectin! Its hell for the horse too as they become extremely itchy, and can rub themselves raw. If they wear full body covers that protect them from the midge then they will not suffer until they get bitten again.

OP - Horses often have dry patches around their elbows as these are friction areas when the horse lies down, the injuries that you have may have been caused by the heel of the horses shoe when it is lying down. Some can be caused by studs when jumping especially when a stud guard is not used on the girth.

They can also be caused by sweat and dirt - also by a fungal infection. At this time of the year in the Northern Hemisphere the grass will be getting long and seed heads forming, the damage could be caused by an allergic reaction to the pollen on the skin. 

It could also be the result of tick bites that have become infected. 

To treat - wash with saline solution - its the least invasive way of cleaning the area. If you suspect a fungal infection then wash with something such as Nizoral Shampoo. Mineral is also not a good idea as it will not soften the skin - Mineral is a bi-product of petroleum! Try using a good brand of human hand cream and rub well in. I've found though that over the years not much has an effect on this area - a bit like the soles of your feet developing a hard surface when you run around barefooted. If you suspect ticks, then go over your horse very carefully and look for them in all the nice hiding places they like, in folds of the skin, between the back legs and in the tail hair around the dock. Avoid turning out in long grass.

If you use Nappy rash cream - which is usually zinc and castor oil then you may have to wash the wound daily until healed as it will trap dirt in it each time the horse lies down.

Make sure that the skin between the legs is sponged clean after work as drying sweat really attracts the flies.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Pictures of sweetitch


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Bondre, Sweet itch and neck threadworms are from the same family of little biting flies. They often go hand in hand.

My curly mare has sweet itch, looks just like the pictures Tnavas posted but it responds to the occasional double dose of ivermectin much better than it does to keeping her slathered in repellents. That bald belly line is where it always starts. Fly spray alone doesn't do it. Wormer meds alone doesn't do it. Has to be both or she will rub herself naked and bloody.

Culicoides midges are found all over the world. I am a little sensitive them as well. I will get welts 2-3 inches wide. I've had my glands swell up. I've had my eyes swell shut. Bites remain insanely itchy for weeks._

biting midges, no-see-ums, Culicoides spp.

*"*_*There are over 4,000 species of biting midges in the Ceratopogonidae family, and over 1,000 in just one genus, Culicoides."

*Enough entomology. They bite. They hurt. They itch.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Tnavas said:


> What you are describing is not sweet itch - firstly sweet itch is an allergic reaction to a particular type of midge found in the UK and in parts of Australia, it is not contagious but very unsightly and is considered a condition that must be declared during the sale of the horse, I have never heard of any being quarantined and I'm English and worked in the equine industry for over 40 years. You certainly will not cure it with Ivermectin! Its hell for the horse too as they become extremely itchy, and can rub themselves raw. If they wear full body covers that protect them from the midge then they will not suffer until they get bitten again.
> 
> OP - Horses often have dry patches around their elbows as these are friction areas when the horse lies down, the injuries that you have may have been caused by the heel of the horses shoe when it is lying down. Some can be caused by studs when jumping especially when a stud guard is not used on the girth.
> 
> ...


1. Sweet itch is in the U.S. because the U.S. Does indeed have biting midges that can leave those little microfiliae called "Onchocerca, aka Neck Threadworms, under the horse's skin. Not only are there many credible articles on the subject, I had to have the vet treat one of my horses for it years ago, when it started spreading at warp speed down his neck and he was itching himself raw.

2. Don't shoot the messenger. When I brought up the quarantine part, it was because I had read it in a either a UK or Australian article that was selling "sweet itch rugs". That was the year my horse was vet-treated for sweet itch so, no, I don't have the article.

2.1. I did not say it was contagious. I said it spreads but I suppose somebody could intertwine those words and come up with same meaning for both of them.

3. Sorry, but my elder Arab had a case of Neck Threadworms. I double dosed him with Ivermectin. Not only did it completely rid him of the NTW's for three years, the sweet itch on his belly line disappeared and did not come back. That was 3 or 4 years ago and to his last breath this Spring, he had no signs of neck threadworms or sweet itch on his belly line.

My regret was that I waited two years after reading owner experiences before treating him that way. I didn't just jump right to it because it seemed to be the popular thing to do.

4. Full body covers are not feasible in every horse's living environment. They don't treat the problem anyway. For my part, it is more important to figure out the root cause and eliminate that, if possible.


5. Residual tick bites leave oozing serum. Once that is cleaned away, there is ALWAYS a pin hole in the center of the sore where the tick burrowed in. The sores on the OP's horse's armpits did not appear to have any of that.

I live in tick heaven and have pulled my lion's share of ticks off my horses during the height of tick season. I know the difference between tick bite sores and dey flaking armpits that sometimes develop sores from fly bites or the horse biting itself.

6. We made the treatment suggestions based on what we have available to us that works. I believe diaper rash cream may have been mentioned at some point.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Walking heals, neck threadworms and Sweetitch are two totally different things.

The neck threadworms are an actual living being irritating the horse like hell and yes a good dose of Ivermectin will certainly kill them.

Sweetitch on the other hand is an overreaction by the immune system to the bite of the midge, just as you may itch if bitten by a mosquito. Treatment for Sweetitch is antihistamine type medication with salves to protect the damaged skin. Prevent the horse from getting bitten either by keeping inside mainly around dusk, or the horse wear an all in one body suit. And yes they do exist and are used by many UK horse owners.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

walkingthewalk - apologies for my ipad doing its own thing with your name!

Here is a picture of a full body suit deigned and made for sufferes of sweet itch


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Neck threadworms are a parasite that spends part of it's life cycle in those midges and part of it's life cycle in whatever mammal is appropriate for the species. This includes humans.

The two diseases/conditions often go hand in hand. Not saying you can't have on without the other but they are often part and parcel of the same problem.

A body suit like that would last about 20 minutes if I'm lucky. She will drag it through the woods, through raspberries and rub on stumps to remove it.

Bendryl actually works pretty good on itching. Cost effective for my 11 hand pony. Might not be for a full sized horse.


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## aclassicalpaint (Feb 11, 2015)

It's an open thread, feel free to ask related questions 

Thanks to all who have helped. Washed both armpits in antibacterial body wash and lathered the wounded area with Vetericyn a couple times. It's currently scabbed over - almost fully healed. Swelling is way down. Best part: her armpits have lost most of their hardness and are no longer flaky!


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