# Lunging cues?



## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Make sure when you want her to slow down or stop you step in front of her driveline (the girthline). If you were using a whip I would say move it to the hand closest to your mare's nose and jiggle it to create pressure ahead of the driveline and influence her to stop. If you are circling counterclockwise, lungeline in your left hand, switch the line to your right hand and take a giant step out of the "triangle" to the left, holding your left hand out and firmly saying your "downshift" walk cue. If your mare does not respond the first time, continue holding your hand out and jiggle the lungeline, putting more energy ahead of the driveline.

I usually start this process using some kind of whip or stick to give my arm more reach, and the horse gets used to it enough to not need the whip, only the movement of my hand or the verbal cue.

Hope that helps. Good luck!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I was always taught that when you tell a horse to walk,trot or canter faster you stare at their eye/head area and keep on them and have the "I'm the boss" stance. When you want them to slow down you take your eyes off the head and stare at the butt area and say "easy" and your body language should soften.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

If she's trotting before you are asking, make your circles smaller so you can bring her back down to the walk. My cue for walk is waaaaalk - just the word drawn out and low. His trot cue is 'trot-trot' said very quickly and upbeat and his canter cue is a smooching sound.

I don't use a lunge line when I lung him (free lunge in the pasture or arena) so if he's misbehaving I ask him to come into the center and then I send him off at the walk. 

I've also seen people raise their hand for the slow down cue so it's a bit of a visual as well. I raise my hand for him to come into the circle. They can respond to sight cues or verbal ones.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

How do you teach them what the hand signals or the words mean? How do you enforce the cue?

I've tried bringing her into a smaller circle but she will continue to trot even when she's only a foot or so away from me which is a little scary (I'm pretty sure it's fear not disrespect on her part). I know she wouldn't intentionally run me over or something but in that close of quarters I'm scared that if she spooks or decides to kick or rear (she doesn't rear often but every once in a while a baby rear will come out) I'll be a goner.

I guess maybe I'll just spend a day or two focusing solely on trying different techniques, that don't involve pulling on her face, to get her to stop when I tell her to

I just had a thought that may or may not work: what if when I started lunging her, right as she starts looking like she's gonna trot, I tell her to trot, then I just don't say anything until she's tired enough to walk when I say (once she gets good and tired she will stop with just a "waaallllk")? That might back fire completely but positively it would set her up to succeed every time and success is a big motivator for her.

Equestriun- That is pretty much what I've been doing. Plus tugging on the line. She just doesn't get it, I can turn around, hunch over and stare at the ground (super submissive) and she will continue to trot until I literally force her to stop, which is where the line tugging came in. =/


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

When teaching my horse to longe, I would say "easy" to slow down and gently pull the longe line to signal to them that it means slow down and bring the circle smaller. When they learn what the cue means, you don't usually have to tell them with anything but the voice.If she still doesn't listen, try not moving with her. Stay where you are and let her go around you until she figures out that you're not moving. Obviously keep switching the longe line into different hands to avoid a tangle 

good luck!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

To ask for a downward transition, I turn into the horse's movement (it's like a wall of energy in front of the drive line), raise my stick in front of him, then shake my rope in increasing intensity until he makes the transition. When he does, I go back to neutral (I don't move when I circle my horse, I stand still). The more my horse understands the concept, the more subtle I get. And then the more challenging I make it. Right now with my warmblood I'm working on halt-canter departures and canter-halt-back up downward transitions. I always warm up with the easy stuff first, along with stretching his topline at all 3 gaits, just to get him in tune with me.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

It's all about reward-reward-reward. Basically when he was walking and I wanted him to trot, I get him going with the trot-trot cue and then really tell him good job, good boy, lots of pats when he did it. Just kept practicing that over and over. 

Same with the slow down cue. I really went all out on the praise when he did it right and keep practicing.

As far as the hand movement I don't know how I managed that. He just started understanding the cue to come into the circle "come" alongside with the hand raised meant he was to come into the circle. Now I can do it without the cue and he comes right in.

I've seen others do the same thing with slowing the horse down on the lunge line so I think they just associate with the words.

For a horse the continues to move forward my trainer will jerk hard on the lead line, if they still won't slow she will snap the whip in front of them and if they still won't slow they get a smack across the front legs (not hard but enough to get their attention). 

After that, they pay attention and there isn't any more issue. She gives them more line and if the misbehave and do not slow down again, she brings them back into a small circle and works them there. Eventually they understand what is going on.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Maybe I'll try a combination of cues since she will slow down when I say easy, maybe I'll see if she'll respond to the use of "easy" as something like a half-halt preparing her for the next cue... So it'll be like "easy" *she slows down* "walk" *hopefully she walks*....

She could care less if I'm moving or not. If I'm not moving she starts doing more of a jog thing but she keeps up the trot. >.< It's like she's on cruise control or something, she can be obviously tired but she won't walk.

Sometimes I feel like some one played mind games with my po-neh, back in the day. It's almost like they tried to see how messed up they could get her without making her seriously dangerously messed up.

I'm sure there's a way to get her to walk I just need to figure out how to communicate walking to her.

Edit: You guys ninja'd me! =P
Maybe I'll try some weird maneuvers with treats (her favorite sort of praise) becuase she learns very very quickly when treats are involved... If those other ideas don't work of course.

Yknow what? I just had another brilliant idea. I taught her to stop when I say "ho" when I was leading her and that has translated to her undersaddle knowledge and to her lunging knowledge. I could try doing a similar thing with trot to walk...

Sorry for being so wordy... I like to talk. :wink:


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Try what I mentioned. If she won't walk, snap the whip, if she still won't walk, smack her across the legs. She'll slow down then. It sounds like she's buffaloing you and exerting herself. They can use a lot of attitude when it comes to doing what they want. As soon as you let her know you are the one in charge, you'll notice a change.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I'm pretty sure she knows I'm the one in charge, but I'll give the whip snapping a try.
I'm just worried that if I end up having to hit her she'll get really scared and have an even harder time obeying next time. But maybe she's not really as fragile as she makes herself seem. I'll give it a try and I'll let you know what happens.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

If she thought you were in charge, she'd be stopping. So she's exerting her control over you by not doing so. If you end up smacking her legs, she's gonna get ****ed and act out. Ignore it and continue on like she didn't. Give her a smack, if she backs up rears, tries to pull away whatever, bring her back in ask her to walk, trot then do the transition again. 

Sometimes it will be a big battle. I've seen my trainer work over an hour on just that because the horse decided it was going to fight her every step of the way. The second the horse did it right, the lesson was over. By the next lesson the horse might fight a little bit, but would get the cue sooner. And when the horse got it, lesson over. And so forth.

Just make sure that if you are in a smaller circle you've got good tension on the rope. You don't want to be close enough that she can kick out if she decides to act up and buck.

I think they want us to think they are a lot more fragile than they are. That's why some horses try to get away with things. Solon will pull that with me from time to time on other things. His warnings are: point my finger at him (which usually works) and then it escalates to a pop on the shoulder with the crop. It makes a nice noise but it does nothing to hurt them. Then he gives me the lippy move (submission sign) and does what he's supposed too.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

It should never be a battle. We can prevent a horse from going there if we do things right. If we do things in an aggressive manner, we ultimately MAKE the horse go there, and we set him up for failure. This can be prevented.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

Yes, it can be a battle if the horse decides he wants to do things his/her way. I've seen it many times. Sorry but I don't believe in the style of training that you do Spirithorse. I think shaking a lead line at a horse is load of nonsense. Of course that doesn't mean it wouldn't work for Wallaby's horse or anyone else's.

There are many ways to train. What works for some people may not work for another. Giving people options lets them pick and choose what works for them.

If you watch horses sometimes they use aggressive ways when a horse decides it isn't going to listen to the lead horse. That involves kicking or biting.

Smacking a horse with the crop isn't beating a horse. It dosen't hurt them but it gets their attention. Oftentimes you don't even need to get to that level. Like I said with my horse, mostly I only need to point my finger at him and he knows to settle down.

However, there are some horses out there that are determined to do things their own way. That's when it becomes more of an effort to bring them into line of what we want them to do. Call it a battle call it a difference of opinion, whatever term. There is resistance and it's up to us to find that right way to bring them around. 

Depending on the horse it may be that shaking things at them works. On others it might not. 

Wallaby do you have access to a person there that could be there to work with you? I know sometimes for me, it's easy when my trainer can be there to show me the steps and then I'm able to work on them by myself. It's hard to relay over the internet information at times!

I know you guys will get to the point you are working toward though!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Thank you Solon for being so helpful! And everybody else who responded! =)
I'll update this thread after I'm able to try these ideas out on Lacey.

I am not adverse to smacking Lacey when she misbehaves and getting a little bit rougher with her, I've just had to work super hard at being non-confrontational with her because in the face of confrontation she starts turning into a real issue....which is probably a sign of a problem... Dang.
My trainer lady might be able to be there with me but she has a distinct way of doing things and she really doesn't see any problem with Lacey's behavior. =/ She sees the issues with Lacey when I ride but she sees lunging as an unnecessary thing that is used just to get the horse tired, while I see it as a way to assess Lacey's mood, her level of energy for the day, and a way to work on our relationship.
She's a much better trainer than the one I had before her but she has more of a work relationship with her horses...if that makes any sense.

I totally know what you mean about explaining things over the internet. =)

So with this whip snapping/smacking idea do you say the cue -"walk"- no response- cue + whip snap in front of horse- no response- cue + light smack on legs - or does it more quickly escalate? Cue - whip snap- whip smack?


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I just sent you a PM. It sounds like I can actually SHOW it to ya! LOL!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Hmmm, have you tried a "join-up technique" with her? When we do joinup and the horse ignores the cue to slow and turn with the whip, we progress to jumping in front of them, hands up and yelling WHOA. I know you're going for a walk now, but it's a way to make her focus on you without having to resort to the whip just yet and get her listening to you.

Perhaps you could just forget the lunge for now, hopefully you have a round pen? Work on joinup with her. I'm sure she's likely not to understand at first since she'll just continue trotting even if your back is to her, but work moreso on disengaging her. Ask her to move forward, let her circle a few times, then MAKE her stop and turn. Continue asking for a change of direction almost constantly, if she's running past the whip, get out in front of her and MAKE her "whoa". This is where the use of the whip would also come in as Solon advised, escalate the force as neccesary until she's focused on YOU.

Lunging is very much a respect thing as a horse pretty much has to be verbal cue trained and have the respect for you to listen. I don't even use a whip with my mare on the lunge, because she's completely voice activated. However, my 2 year old doesn't quite understand lunging yet and is very much "WEEEE, RUNNING!" Doing joinup with her made her totally stop and realize she HAD to listen to me. I plan on doing it quite a bit more before advancing to lunge cues, but she's also learning her verbal cues from a lot of ground work with leading and such.

Again, when I say joinup, it CAN be completely modified to suit your purpose. For example, I can do joinup with my Arab mare and she won't walk into me because she's been trained not to from being lunged. I am fine with that, and much prefer it. When I did joinup with Jynx, she also didn't submit in a classical way (dropping her head) and wouldn't walk into me when I turned my back, but I wasn't aiming for perfect textbook "joinup", I was aiming for her focusing on me and listening to me which is exactly what I got.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

It's a small world Solon! =P

I actually have joined up with her and I try to join up with her at least once during/after every session. She's very willing to do it too. It took her forever to catch on but she finally did and now she'll even try to do it when I don't want/didn't tell her to >.< but I shoo her away and she only does that every once in a while.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

A HUMAN smacking a horse and another HORSE biting him are two completely different things. But I'm not going to hijack the thread.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I think with practice and trying different things you'll find what works. I tried and tried and we just couldn't get it done. Then finally I took him off the lead line and he was making beautiful circles around me and doing his transitions. So you'll find what works.

It's just the 'getting there' that gets nerve-wracking!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Well I tried the whip thing and I'm pretty sure I was doing it wrong. I was having a super hard time keeping my right hand still to hold the line as I tried to snap the whip in front of her with my left hand. It kept ending up that either the line was being waved as I waved the whip or the whip was being held still. >.<
I could tell she was getting really confused and she kept trying to turn around. I don't really blame her for that because she doesn't like whips too much (I can touch her everywhere with one when she's free/tied up, she just doesn't like them) and when the whip is in front of her and my stupid other hand is making her face wiggle, I think I'd decide that I should turn around too.

I ended up just doing lots of walk trot transitions and I worked on only using singular swift pulling (no yank yank yank yank yank etc) of the line when she wouldn't stop. She caught on enough that a few times she actually walked when I said walk!!! She wasn't doing that consistently or transitioning to a walk immediatly, but she did start walking a few steps after I said "walk" a few times. =D

We practiced that for about thirty minutes and by the end she was also trotting when I said trot without me having to flick the end of the line at her.

I also had her halt a few times becuase that is something she's pro at. She tries so hard to figure out what I want. It's the cutest thng.

Hopefully when I go see her tomorrow she'll be even easier get walking.


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## Brumby (Nov 5, 2008)

I usually start lunging a horse fairly close to me (you might run a chance of getting kicked but I never have been). I use a faily long long whip. I can touch the horse (just a little) with the whip. If they fail to slow down when I ask (voice commands) I will tap them on the chest harder and harder untill they stop. All the while saying "walk....walk....walk". Once they will listen to me when they are close I will lengthen my rope. I will tug on the rope if they are to far to reach. I also am a big fan of voice commands.


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