# Is this okay?



## Nya (Jul 23, 2012)

What about trying a crop? I had the same problem at first, when I switched to western riding with my new horse. He wouldn't work even on the lunge or round pen while doing ground work, because he didn't respect me at all. He plain ignored me even when I was in the saddle kicking, kissing an doing whatever to go, because he thought he could get away with it. At first, you should be able to make it work from the ground. In my case, I helped myself with a crop when he ignored my legs (trainer suggestion). My boy tried refusing the work with little little bucks, or turning the direction he wanted.. Or even straight towards fences.. until he uderstood what's his job..! It's a matter of time.. I spent a month on it! Now the horse listens to legs and voice  ps: this should work if it's a matter or non respect and or laziness. Nothing to do with any other problem!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

I use split reins, and from time to time my horse will refuse to move forward also. I just use the end of my leather reins to flag or swat him if necessary. I'm not beating him, but I'm reminding him. Like you said, pressure away when he walks forward. He needs to understand that when you ask nicely, it means go, and if not, you will up the pressure. I think a swat is better than kicking a lot because then you just create a dead-sided horse if you kick too much, and your legs will mean nothing anymore. A crop works if you can handle another think in your hand, but I just use my leather reins. My daughter barrel races and leaves an over/under on her saddle. The few times her horse has refused, she just flags her with that. We try to avoid getting into a kicking fit.


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## cowgirlnay (Oct 14, 2011)

Yeah you're totally fine. It would be different if you didn't try asking with your legs first..but it sounds like you give several warnings before you resort to that, and its great that you are making him listen. Like the other girls said, if you are riding with leather split reins, you can also use a rein as a last resort to pop him on the butt as well. Keep working on it, and eventually he should understand that if he doesn't go when you use your legs, he's gonna get swatted. This could just be a matter of having a lazy horse that is trying to take advantage of you a little bit to see what you know.


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## blackdieselpony (Feb 26, 2012)

If you want him to become more responsive try bumper spurs. It's a subtle que that involves leg with out using a crop or split reins which can throw you off balance.


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## equestrianfriend (Jun 27, 2013)

Wiggle your heels in his skin when you nudge him, and click your tongue ect.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Carry a dressage whip at your leg, and when you ask with your leg for forward and get no response....then use the whip AT YOUR LEG. Your horse is basically flipping you off and tuning you out if you get no response from using your leg.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

You should only have to ask once with your leg. If the horse doesn't immediately move forward from the first leg cue, back it up immediately with a dressage whip at your leg. He needs to learn to respect the leg. Listening to it is non-negotiable, and he will learn that the whip follows the leg if he argues.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you asked if it was "okay", in the sense , I think, of not being cruel. 

I would say there is absolutely nothing cruel to the horse. But you'll wear out your hand that way, and that's cruel to you. And, having each and every time you go forward be a battle can get old, fast.

So, using the end of a split rein, or a crop or whip (not spurs for a baulky horse and not unless you have plenty of experience). Do the Ask, Tell, Demand.

one soft asking with leg, one very firm telling with leg, and then Wham! put the whip on , and don't hesitate. it should have a a one, two, three! rhythm to it.
the horse will be surprised and will leap forward, or maybe crowhop, so you have to be ready and know that you can deal with this. Don't yank him back to slow again, just let him move out, even if he trots or canters, then kind of ease back to walk, slowly.

the idea is to make a BIG impression once, so that he'll remember that if he ignores you he gets a very unpleasant experience. he won't ignore you again.

that is less cruel than to have and everytime we go arguament with kicking, more kicking and slapping.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

It is definetly ok. I was putting some time on my moms 3 year old last year, and she had no desire to move out and stay in a lope for more than a couple strides before lazing back to a trot. She is still lacking in the desire to go do stuff department, but you can get her going consistently in all 3 gaits without having to sit there and pound her sides. 






She caught me a bit off gaurd - I was deffs not expecting any bursts of speed out of her. Even with taking the split rein to her.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

Do you have a professional that you can take lessons from? 

In my experience, a horse that sulls up and doesn't want to work will often escalate as far as bad behavior goes.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Keep making clicking noises and get the life up in your body to go forward and sit up in your seat a little more when asking her to go forward.
If you have a romel rein, then take the end of it and for her warnings, slap your left shoulder, then your right. Then your left hip, then your right, then your thigh, then your other thigh - and if she still hasn't gone by those warnings then lightly tap her shoulders with it. If she still doesn't go, keep the steady speed but increase the pressure slowly until she goes forward. This really works with my horse when I want him to go forward, faster, or to just behave.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

amberly said:


> Keep making clicking noises and get the life up in your body to go forward and sit up in your seat a little more when asking her to go forward.
> If you have a romel rein, then take the end of it and for her warnings, slap your left shoulder, then your right. Then your left hip, then your right, then your thigh, then your other thigh - and if she still hasn't gone by those warnings then lightly tap her shoulders with it. If she still doesn't go, keep the steady speed but increase the pressure slowly until she goes forward. This really works with my horse when I want him to go forward, faster, or to just behave.


In my opinion, this gives the horse wayyyy too many chances to react. Clicking, slapping yourself in six places, and tapping her shoulders repeatedly is too much. Ask, tell, demand. Ask with the expectation she will move off, tell with a dressage whip at the leg if she ignores it, and you should rarely have to get to "demand".


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

Thank you guys, she learned quickly and will now go forward with a kiss


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

You can tap yourself for warnings as much or less as you would like. Sometimes when Brisco knows what he should be doing, I "kiss" him forward, then tap my shoulders and usually by that he goes. But most of the time I will only tap my shoulders, then his his withers.


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## TxMarine (Aug 12, 2013)

If you're a timid rider you should work on becoming more confident. The more confident you are, the more of a leader the horse will see you as, and less of a push over. Make sure your horse isn't in pain and that there isn't an equipment issue such as improper saddle fit, etc. Also, make sure your horse understands the absolute basics of forward movement and is well broke overall.


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## oliveoats (Jan 22, 2013)

With my horse, it goes:
1. Tongue Click
2. Squeeze
3. Small nudge
4. Crop and a big kick.

He used to not like moving out, but I have been consistently doing the 'ask, tell, demand', and he now moved well off of just the ask. If he is stop I can click without any leg pressure to ask for the walk. A second click gets him into the running walk. A kiss gets him into the canter. 

Consistency is the key.


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## KayceeJo (Mar 10, 2013)

Be very careful when using a crop, whip, reins, and spurs. They have their place, but you still need to be careful. Have you tried redirecting her feet? That may help to. It may be something where you need to go back to the basics. Work on your groundwork, and get that respect and forward motion back. She needs to go willingly- it is a matter of training. Those other tools are aids only. Not are not meant to be depended on. Because if you make the mistake of only using those tools, yes she may go that one time, but what about the next time and the time after that? But if you take the time to backtrack a little bit, she will always listen. Horses are quick learners- she will know when you have the aid and when you don't and she will take every advantage of it. You have to get your horse to respect you on the ground, then she will eagerly obey you when you are on her back. Your horse should be willing, not forced. 

She should only have one chance to react. Either do it right the first time, or learn the harder way. You should decide on one cue. Either squeeze, kiss, or whatever. Do it one time. If she does not react, then make her go. It should not take 5 different moves to get your horse to move her feet. That is to many chances. She should obey on the first command, not the 5th. It shouldn't take her that long to decide what to do. While training, this is okay, because the horse really does not know. With this horse, she knows what she is doing. 

I have had this same situation with many problem horses I have rode. The best fix- go back to where the problem started, not just a quick fix. And stay consistent. Good luck with her!


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## CrossCountry (May 18, 2013)

Thank you all for your help! We have greatly improved over the last month or two. After a few two many explosions, she now moves off only voice cues, and if she bucks or crow-hops I keep her moving forward with a kick. She likes circles so that doesn't work 

We have improved soooooo much! It's amazing. She does become a brat when she's in season, but other than that she's an angel. It makes it so much better that I trained her this way. I've never trained a horse before but she turned out amazing. It was fun even with all the falling off 

I hardly ever kick to get her to move off, all she needs is a kiss.


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