# Can you say STEROIDS!?!



## mysticdragon72

I'm not exactly sure what the owners of this stud have given him to look this way but I just have to say... OMG! :shock:

That's DISGUSTING!!!


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## mysticdragon72

Actually.. the more I look at it the more I think that the photo's been photoshopped!

Still.... YUCK!


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## Adenfire

Basic Stock Halter horse stallion right there...GAAAA...What can they do with all them muscles...I see them just like human body builders...yes they have tons of muscle but it's a completely different "kind of" muscle then a Riding horse for the most part, just because they use it in a different way. If any of that made sense...I'm tired had a long day


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## mysticdragon72

I dunno if that's naturally built muscle or chemically enhanced.... either way it looks awful and I wouldn't want a horse like that.

I still think that the photo has been altered because if you look closely at the image that is in the top left corner.. almost like a shadow.. he doesn't look anything like the "in focus" image. His lower neck is the most noticeably different part as you can see the distinct line going from his jowels to where the neck joins his chest.. in the front image his neck has no definition.. it's just a round cylindrical thing.... not normal.


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## Caitlinpalomino

ew!!!!!!


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## drafts4ever

I think they pump them up on saline not chemicals I think they inject it into the muscle to make it stand out for shows and pictures. There's a stud that comes to the pinto shows that looks normal on haul in and then he's all muscled out for the three show days.


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## equiniphile

Eww, this is revolting....and regretfully, so common in halter QHs. Look at those little stick legs and pony feet!!


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## musicalmarie1

This is a picture of my mare's half brother-- they have the same mom, Miss JJ Jessie Jones.


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## Gidget

its a mutant!


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## VanillaBean

Blek!!


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## MacabreMikolaj

Oh you'd be amazed - I doubt it's photoshopped at all. Sir Cool Skip is possibly the most revolting stud I've ever seen - courtesy of being a HYPP carrier! I don't understand how anyone can think this possibly looks right:



















People who breed these monstrosities should be shot. He died this year at the ripe old age of 17. I'm sure THAT was from natural causes. :roll:


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## ilovemyPhillip

That's just not natural. Or normal. Who would pay that much money for a stud when the baby's gunna come out with six eyes and a fifth leg. o.o" seriously.


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## Poseidon

He is absolutely terrifying.. And looks more like those "super cows" more than a horse..

I moved Abby to a barn that shows halter QHs because it was more convenient for me. I realllllly hope when their winter blankets come off, they do not look like that. None of them look that wide, so I may not have to see those mutants.


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## Tasia

I strongly believe there photo shopped, not well mind you.


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## lacyloo

Tasia said:


> I strongly believe there photo shopped, not well mind you.


 No they really do breed horses like that for show. Its disturbing


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## GreyRay

Thank God Sir Cool Skip died. Probably sounds bad, but the last thing he needed to do was breed. To bad he has offspring out there =/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WickedNag

I love a big stout qh but that is way too much for me!


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## Poseidon

WickedNag said:


> I love a big stout qh but that is way too much for me!


Big stout QHs are my favourite, but I agree, these are insane.


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## mysticdragon72

I wonder if they do in fact give them steroids? Is the horse industry as regulated about that as much as the human bodybuilding industry?

I know the racing industry is REALLY strict on what types of drugs you can have your horse on in order to run a race BUT who's to say these horses haven't been given steroids in order to enhance their muscle production? Either way, injecting ANYTHING into a horse that may... or may not be harmful to their health just purely for looks is.. IMO just plain WRONG!!

Just like in everything else.. let's go to extremes before someone says enough!! I betcha those studs can't even be ridden when they're all pumped up on.... whatever!

Shameful.


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## equiniphile

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Oh you'd be amazed - I doubt it's photoshopped at all. Sir Cool Skip is possibly the most revolting stud I've ever seen - courtesy of being a HYPP carrier! I don't understand how anyone can think this possibly looks right:
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> People who breed these monstrosities should be shot. He died this year at the ripe old age of 17. I'm sure THAT was from natural causes. :roll:


 That's the stud I was trying to find to post here! Saw him in an AQHA magazine I believe and was revolted.


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## A knack for horses

I GARUNTEE you that horse is lame!!! I agree that is just waaay too much muscle. 

But hey, thats the only way you get to the top of the Halter industry. Breed the HYPP Positives, stick the poor horse in a stall, Beef him up, then spray a whole bottle of show sheen on him and put him in a fancy halter.:roll: :-x

It's just sick. And please don't take me the wrong way, I know there are some responsible halter horse people out there, and I thank you for responsibly breeding/showing your horses. But clearly, there are still some under the delusion that this looks normal on a horse.


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## WalkerH

I love Quarter Horses because of their muscle, stout body...but that is way too much. It doesn't even look right. I mean the picture in general was photoshopped, even if the horse wasn't. I mean you can easily tell that is not where the picture took place and all that...but even the horse looks crazy intense.


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## Streakin

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Oh you'd be amazed - I doubt it's photoshopped at all. Sir Cool Skip is possibly the most revolting stud I've ever seen - courtesy of being a HYPP carrier! I don't understand how anyone can think this possibly looks right:
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> People who breed these monstrosities should be shot. He died this year at the ripe old age of 17. I'm sure THAT was from natural causes. :roll:


AACK!! Look at those hocks!


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## CruceyMoose

He's also morbidly obese. Look at that rump! But he was photoshopped into the background, but I believe those are his real...fat pads? That isn't muscle. Bleck!


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## musicalmarie1

Ugh. I love Quarter Horses, but ugh!


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## equiniphile

Crucey, that's not fat. That's over-muscle, and he's swamped with it! Poor guy, I bet he could barely move :-(


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## Belle

In Australia , we have some big Studs like that ...All imported from the USA. 
I have seen a few in the flesh and its quite scary..I mean they look like nothing i have ever seen..
BUT that is the way the Halter Industry is heading..
You dont see many Halter horses after their 4 th birthday cause they are in the back paddock crippled...
Its sad to see...
Not sure if its been photoshopped but it doesnt shock me if it hasnt been.
...As to the drugs...Over here its a really big suspension but just like athletes, new drugs are always being used and their is no test yet to track them. Eg Marion Jones the olympic runner...she was caught out many years later..
mmmmm...


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## DakotaLuv

Here's a couple "nice" ones for ya...

Looks like the grand champion hog at the fair.









This was actually posted on a website. How can you be proud of this...


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## VanillaBean

My friend shows QH halter and she said that her horse was all wild eyed at the big muscleed horses!
they are really gross!


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## Belle

mmm..poor things ...the second picture looks like a cruelty case...and looks crippled in the front end..!!!


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## myhorsesonador

DakotaLuv said:


> Here's a couple "nice" ones for ya...
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> Looks like the grand champion hog at the fair.
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> This was actually posted on a website. How can you be proud of this...


That last one looks like it's going to fall on it's face any secound! My mare is a halter horse and her dad was a big time halter stallion. I can hapily say he looked nuthing like the freeks your posting here.


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## Belle

Dak Luv...What is the name of the website with these piccys? ..I am curious to have look..


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## A knack for horses

DakotaLuv said:


> This was actually posted on a website. How can you be proud of this...


Is it just me, or does anybody else want a baby out of that horse? :evil:

He isn't even decently conformed!!! And they made him horse-zilla!!!


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## Streakin

My biggest issue with the halter horse industry is the blatant disregard for HYPP.


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## Streakin

A knack for horses said:


> Is it just me, or does anybody else want a baby out of that horse? :evil:
> 
> He isn't even decently conformed!!! And they made him horse-zilla!!!


Whoaaa...is that a stud?:shock:


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## DakotaLuv

Google, bertonqh for website.


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## DakotaLuv

Streakin said:


> Whoaaa...is that a stud?:shock:


No, it's a dam of someone's stallion. :-(


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## ShutUpJoe

DakotaLuv said:


> Here's a couple "nice" ones for ya...
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> This was actually posted on a website. How can you be proud of this...


That poor horse! It's front legs are gross looking. They look backward. It's back and diaper bottom and poor back legs. ::shakes head::

I used to board at a halter place. He had one mare that was massive! She was put on the treadmill twice a day and wasn't allowed out of her stall. She had five or six different supplements with every feeding. She was HYPP postive.


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## GreyRay

DakotaLuv said:


> Here's a couple "nice" ones for ya...
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> This was actually posted on a website. How can you be proud of this...


Cottage Cheese!
I spent a year getting rid of that on my butt. Why would someone be proud of it on their horse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Streakin

DakotaLuv said:


> No, it's a dam of someone's stallion. :-(


A great example of a horse that should NOT be bred.

The horse market is in shambles....lets add some more poorly bred/conformed horses:-x


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## A knack for horses

Streakin said:


> My biggest issue with the halter horse industry is the blatant disregard for HYPP.


Thank You!!! 

I recently wrote a persuasive research paper on banning the registration of HYPP positive horses (specifically N/H) to get rid of the rampant "under the rug" breeding going on. If you look at the 2010 AQHA World show halter horses (I just looked at the top 5 in the amature catagory), It is nearly impossible to find if these horse are HYPP positive or not, but almost All of thme had one or both parents postive for the gene, and I found one thats sire was H/H!!! ("stratigically" bred to an N/N mare so the foal was garunteed to be N/H).
The Halter industry is just going down the drain.


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## Vidaloco

I wonder how that became so desirable in the halter class world. To breed that into such a noble animal as the horse is very sad. It's amazing what they can do with genetic engineering. Unfortunately it is where things like HYPP got started.


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## Streakin

A knack for horses said:


> Thank You!!!
> 
> I recently wrote a persuasive research paper on banning the registration of HYPP positive horses to get rid of the rampant "under the rug" breeding going on. If you look at the 2010 AQHA World show halter horses (I just looked at the top 5 in the amature catagory), It is nearly impossible to find if these horse are HYPP positive or not, but almost All of thme had one or both parents postive for the gene, and I found one thats sire was H/H!!! ("stratigically" bred to an N/N mare so the foal was garunteed to be N/H).
> *The Halter industry is just going down the drain*.


I absolutely agree.

Correct me if Im wrong, but didnt some people in the industry start a small association for halter horses that were unregisterable...or HYPP positive?


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## A knack for horses

Vidaloco said:


> I wonder how that became so desirable in the halter class world. To breed that into such a noble animal as the horse is very sad. It's amazing what they can do with genetic engineering. Unfortunately it is where things like HYPP got started.


HYPP positive horses tend to have more muscle mass than HYPP negative horses. Thats why people breed _for _the genetic defect. Even though it is a "controlable" disease, there is no cure or garuntee you can keep a horse from suffering from an attack.


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## A knack for horses

Streakin said:


> Correct me if Im wrong, but didnt some people in the industry start a small association for halter horses that were unregisterable...or HYPP positive?


Haven't heard about that, but it really wouldn't surprise me if there was.


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## myhorsesonador

Here is what halter horses should look more like.

my mares dad
Imprimis N Gold Quarter Horse


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## Streakin

myhorsesonador said:


> Here is what halter horses should look more like.
> 
> my mares dad
> Imprimis N Gold Quarter Horse


Pic doesnt work.


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## equiniphile

No horse is worth a dime in halter if it doesn't weigh over 2000 pounds of steroid--induced muscle! :roll:


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## myhorsesonador

equiniphile said:


> No horse is worth a dime in halter if it doesn't weigh over 2000 pounds of steroid--induced muscle! :roll:


Imprimis n Gold was a 3 time world champ and he was only 1,200 and he was 16'1"

I cant believe the pic wount work... GRRRRRR. I dont have any one this computer that fit and they wount resize right. I'll try again later.


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## mysticdragon72

equiniphile said:


> No horse is worth a dime in halter if it doesn't weigh over 2000 pounds of steroid--induced muscle! :roll:


Well... actually if you're specifically talking about QH's maybe... but only at the TOP levels of showing. I have seen quite a few halter horses that look NOTHING like the one's posted here but are still winners.... mind you they're also into WP and the like.

Also, the owner of the sire of my two babies shows her mares and the stallion in halter class.. mind you their Paints not QHs but still.. they don't look anywhere near these beasts.


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## A knack for horses

Want to see some more winners? Literally, just click the class and you will get to see the winners of the halter classes (Amature and Open)

http://www.aqha.com/Showing/World-Show/Results.aspx


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## tinyliny

What is HYPP and H/N? I know nothing of this. Nothing.
And I am ignorant of halter world of showing. I probably should be happy about my ignorance, no?


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## dressagebelle

I know someone who was BIG into the halter world for quite a number of years. It is very common she said for the horses to be given steroids to help bulk up the muscle, they are fed a diet tailored to gaining muscle, and not much is done with them. I worked a gelding of hers that was a carrier for the gene, and he was just huge, very stiff, had no manners was like 16+ hands and at least 2,000lbs. I felt bad pushing him as much as I did, but the owner wanted me to push him even more. She had no clue about him being unfit for riding, not built right, wrong muscles, and completely out of shape. She at least did the responsible thing and had him gelded once she found out he was a carrier, but still. I think of halter horse, and I think of a horse who's supposed to be to the exact breed standard, that has the conformation, and build to do whatever the breed was originally bred to do, and could in the Quarter Horse ring, win a halter show, then that afternoon go out and work cattle on the ranch. I find it very sad that the halter horses they are breeding now have absolutely no use outside of walking around the show ring looking like body builders. But for whatever reason, that is what is being bred for halter, and what is currently winning. I love the small bulldog type Quarter Horses, ones that can work on a ranch, and are great working horses, but I would never own anything that looks like the pictures posted.


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## Streakin

dressagebelle said:


> I know someone who was BIG into the halter world for quite a number of years. It is very common she said for the horses to be given steroids to help bulk up the muscle, they are fed a diet tailored to gaining muscle, and not much is done with them. I worked a gelding of hers that was a carrier for the gene, and he was just huge, very stiff, had no manners was like 16+ hands and at least 2,000lbs. I felt bad pushing him as much as I did, but the owner wanted me to push him even more. She had no clue about him being unfit for riding, not built right, wrong muscles, and completely out of shape. She at least did the responsible thing and had him gelded once she found out he was a carrier, but still.* I think of halter horse, and I think of a horse who's supposed to be to the exact breed standard, that has the conformation, and build to do whatever the breed was originally bred to do, and could in the Quarter Horse ring, win a halter show, then that afternoon go out and work cattle on the ranch. I find it very sad that the halter horses they are breeding now have absolutely no use outside of walking around the show ring looking like body builders. But for whatever reason, that is what is being bred for halter, and what is currently winning. I love the small bulldog type Quarter Horses, ones that can work on a ranch, and are great working horses, but I would never own anything that looks like the pictures posted.*


I agree!
When I think of a quarter horse, I picture a muscular, athletic horse that can excel at a variety of disciplines.
These halter horses can barely walk.


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## SayiWont

I went to a horse show not too long ago that had one halter MARE that looked worse than that. I got to see her up close and personal several times because she competed in a lot of classes- halter and undersaddle. She looked like she was built out of spare parts. Her body was a lot bigger than it should have been for her build. She had little tiny legs and hooves and a big muscular body. She didn't win any of the classes she entered, though. She moved like crap and wasn't very appealing to the eye. She didn't even place in the halter classes. I heard one of her owners after the halter classes say, "I don't know why she didn't win. She was the best looking horse out there." IMO: Horses shouldn't ever look like that. It is so disgusting.


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## ShutUpJoe

Here you go tinyliny
Index


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## equiniphile

I completely agree. I hate that correct conformation is worth zip these days. The halter winners should be the breed standards! A QH is supposed to be versatile, stocky but athletic, not over-muscled and fugly!


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## equiniphile

Some more gems....

http://www.brookspaintsandquarters.com/PatchTheBuck.html


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## dressagebelle

I went to a show a few months ago, and a couple of the horses entered into the halter class (mind you this is a little local rail show), weren't quite as bulky, but definitely bred specifically for halter, and one was definitely sore, when asked to trot to the rail, and the judge remarked on it, gave the person the benefit of the doubt that one time, because the arena had incredibly deep footing, and the owner was miffed that the judge thought her horse was off. Granted the horse still got 1st or 2nd each class, including the riding classes. I just hope that I can somehow show them up at least in the riding classes with my Arabian mare. I think they do all the rail shows in the area, and I want to start showing my mare both in halter, and under saddle, so we'll see. I'm just glad that others out there share my opinions on what a halter horse is really supposed to be. Breed standard is obviously not what they've been breeding for lately.


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## A knack for horses

tinyliny said:


> What is HYPP and H/N? I know nothing of this. Nothing.
> And I am ignorant of halter world of showing. I probably should be happy about my ignorance, no?


I believe you mean N/H?

HYPP (or hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis), is a genetic mutation that is found in horses linked to the Quarter Horse, Impressive. The mutation affects the muscles of the horse, by causing patassium to leak from the cell. When this happens, A horse will will have an attack. An HYPP attack can range from a few minutes of paralysis, to muscle convulsions, collapse, and in severe cases, death.

Horses that are suspected of having symptoms or linked to Impressive should be tested for HYPP. Once tested, a horse can have one of 3 results. 

N/N - Negative for HYPP (And the most common result. About 60% of all horses specifically tested for HYPP are negative). A horse that is N/N will not experience symptoms or pass on the gene.

N/H - Heterozygous for HYPP (about 30% test N/H). A horse that is N/H for HYPP has one positive gene. When this horse is bred to an N/N horse, there is a 50% chance the offspring will be N/H. When bred to another N/H horse, there is a 50% chance for an N/H offspring, and a 25% chance for a H/H offspring (which will be discussed next). 

H/H - Homozygous for HYPP. (the rarest result, about 1% test H/H) H/H horse will ALWAYS produce positive offspring, regardless of what they are bred to. H/H horses are banned from being registered with the AQHA. Also, H/H horses experience the most severe symptoms.

There is no cure for HYPP, but can be managed by diet, exersize, and basic control of the horses enviorment. (HYPP sort of reminds me of epilepcy in the way that there are triggers to attacks. You can avoid these triggers such as rapid diet changes, or diets high in potassium (like strobe lights to epilepcy), but that doesn't garuntee that a horse won't have an attack, and they are hard to predict.)

Hope that clarifies, tinylily.

And as I said in an earlier post, the reason the HYPP positive horses are so popular in the show ring was because the positive horses had more muscling to them than negative horses. And as you have seen, muscle is increasingly important in the halter industry these days. Now it is more of a competition to see who has the bigger gaskins.


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## ktaylor

That's so funny cuz I saw the exact same photo in the AQHA magazine from a couple weeks ago! It cannot be all real... some of it must be photo shop.


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## SayiWont

Here ya some "winners":
Berton Quarter Horses
This whole site is full of them. Every single stallion they own. :-x


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## A knack for horses

Hmmm...Light weight, you say?

"Mr Colton has never been fit on due to an injury at a young age.
We keep him very light on weight as you can see in these pictures."


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## Tasia

lacyloo said:


> No they really do breed horses like that for show. Its disturbing


I know quite well they do. I have expierence in the show world. Including halter type Qh's. Saying that, horse photos that are edited into different types of backgrounds are often stretched but its depends on the circumstances.


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## Adenfire

Now to me this seems like the right amount of muscling for a halter horse, though i don't know about his actual conformation. I hate the over muscled ones but feel like there could be a happy medium.





A knack for horses said:


> Hmmm...Light weight, you say?
> 
> "Mr Colton has never been fit on due to an injury at a young age.
> We keep him very light on weight as you can see in these pictures."


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## myhorsesonador

Adenfire said:


> Now to me this seems like the right amount of muscling for a halter horse, though i don't know about his actual conformation. I hate the over muscled ones but feel like there could be a happy medium.


I was going to say that he desnt lok that bad in comparison. They mean light as in you can kinda see his ribs.


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## A knack for horses

Adenfire, He isn't the worst I have seen, but I wouldn't consider him a light weight horse. Then again, this is the halter industry were talking about, so he technically is light weight.


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## ShutUpJoe

This is a yearling? Seriously...


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## dressagebelle

One of the thing that gets to me is they have these huge muscles, and yet the profile of their belly is very much like that of a racehorse, very slender towards the back, its like they've got huge muscles in front, huge muscles behind, and then this thin sucked up looking belly between the two. At least on a racehorse, its all a streamlined type of look, but on the Quarter Horse, it just makes it look like the horse is sucking in its big gut. You can tell even with Mr. Colton who hasn't been "fitted" for show, that he's got those outrageous muscles, and if fed more, and then fitted for show, he's look exactly the same as the other over muscled horses we've been seeing.


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## myhorsesonador

Could you guys please STOP attacking the halter world. There is bad in all disaplans.

I'm really getting sick of these halter horse threads. I dont think I've ever seen a nice one. I have a halter horse, and I have worked with a lot of them. They dont all look like freeks.


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## MightyEventer

well you can tell that the first picture has been photoshopped into a fake background by the way the feet are placed, and its not hard to photoshop muscles either


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## Poseidon

ShutUpJoe said:


> This is a yearling? Seriously...


This looks like the same horse, but as a weanling..


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## ShutUpJoe

We're not talking about the ones that don't look like freaks. It's not natural for a horse to be that big.


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## A knack for horses

ShutUpJoe said:


> We're not talking about the ones that don't look like freaks. It's not natural for a horse to be that big.


I agree. There are responsible and sane Halter horse owners and breeders out there, just like there are sane people in any disipline. Same goes for the other side of horse industries.


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## myhorsesonador

ShutUpJoe said:


> We're not talking about the ones that don't look like freaks. It's not natural for a horse to be that big.


There has to be a balance though. every time I see a halter horse thread its full of "eww", "gross", "the halter industry is crap", and "halter horses are ugly" 

There has been some nice looking horses in this thread but every one gets so fired up on it that they dont stop to think. It's not bad to have a good amount of muscle on a horse. tooth pics are bad and so are the ones that look like beasts, but why do we all have to sit around grossing out about them.

If people were to pay less atention to them eventualy they would wither away. Like we say in the dog training world "bad atention is still atention."


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## ShutUpJoe

To me it's kind of like when the Pit Bull breed went from these compact little dogs that were bred for stamina and performance to these beasts that like like a cross of a Neapolitan Mastiff and an Olde English Bulldogge. They are not meant to look like that. 

My uncle told me once that a breed bred away from the standard is no longer the breed. If an animal cannot perform the tasks that they were bred for then they are no longer worthy of being called that breed.


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## azarni

There are threads talking about the disgraces of other disciplines too, myhorsesonador. It's not like this forum is targeting and bashing Halter horses only. You cannot possibly sit there and look at those photos and think there is nothing wrong with the discipline. Even at lower levels, the most desirable conformation is going horribly awry. Every successful halter horse I have seen is so post-legged I doubt it could be ridden for 5 years without major stifle issues.


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## lacyloo

> There is bad in all disaplans.


But that still doesn't make it _okay..._
I know it takes _one bad apple...._ But alot of those horses are NOT healthy or should be breeding anything.


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## myhorsesonador

You guys totaly missed the point I was trying to make.


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## Honeysuga

There is bad in every discipline, but when the bad is the rule rather than the exception, then it is time to sit around grossing about it. It is disgusting what they do to the poor animals.

All I thought when I saw the GIANT yearling and weanlings was GROWTH HORMONES!

I am so glad Honey never fell into the hands of those halter nuts. With her tall and naturally muscular build and Impressive right in her peigree(she was NN YAYYY!) she surely would have been bred to those mutant behemoths to produce some truly hideous little monsters.

Myhorseandor, go ahead and pick 5 positive traits out of that first horse posted, if he isnt that bad it should be easy right??


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## lacyloo

So who finds this attractive? Worth showing? Worth breeding?




 
_And no this post is not directed towards anyone in particular_


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## ShutUpJoe

What point are you trying to make? You said there were a few nice horses in these posts. The only nice one I saw was the Palomino and even his owners are saying that he is only kept that way because he was injured. If he hadn't been injured he'd be as huge as the others.


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## A knack for horses

myhorsesonador said:


> If people were to pay less atention to them eventualy they would wither away. Like we say in the dog training world "bad atention is still atention."


Nobody is saying every single halter horse is ugly. Your horse looks beautiful and _reasonable._ If I were a judge for a halter class, I would be looking for conformation, not muscling. We are talking about the outrageous _muscling_ in the halter industry. We aren't saying all halter horses are outrageous.

But how do you get things changed around in the halter industry? It takes somebody to speak up, not sit around a turn their head the other way. If people keep saying "Eww." at these "mega-horse monsters", eventually somebody with the power to change this is going to listen. 

I have shown horses in halter, so don't get me wrong sonador. I love me a pretty halter horse. Heck, there are two halter horses at my instructors barn right now. The thing I don't love is the extreme muscling. And that is what we are discussing in this thread.


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## DakotaLuv

myhorsesonador...I LOVE halter. I love the look of most halter horses, but I think they should be able to physically perform as well. 

The horses posted are absolutely hideous...except for that yearling...I kinda like her, but she is awefully big. The ones posted are way over doing it. The amount of muscling is way over the top and can/do cause a lot of problems.

Which horses in this thread do you think are "nice looking"? Cause quite frankly, besides the yearling, I don't see anything I would want to have in my barn or breed my mares to.


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## ShutUpJoe

Exactly...knack

Dakotaluv-The yearling is a colt. He is one of the over-muscled stallions listed on that website that was posted.


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## Honeysuga

Just to clarify further to whomever didnt have a clue about hypp. The reason the HH horses look so bulky and are so much more muscular than NN horses is because the disease is triggered by a potassium imbalance ( like when you start having mad muscle cramps and people tell you to eat more bananas). The nerves in the muscles fire very ripidly and uncontorlled, cause the muscle to build(like those electric shock tummy crunchers that were on tv for a while).So it makes is ridiculously easy for owners to get monstrously over muscled horses, just do not give them the proper diet and excersize and cut the sugar in their diet and they will have almost constant attacks, leading to bulging muscling.

Now this is a horrible thing and the attacks can sometimes paralyze the respiratory system and kill the horse in a terrifying and painful way. Attack are abated by dosing the horse orally with an amount of Karo syrup or other sugary substance( mashed banana and sugar helps too). But the easiest prevention is to not breed these horses at all and to maintain the ones around with proper diet and exercise.


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## GreyRay

lacyloo said:


> So who finds this attractive? Worth showing? Worth breeding?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _And no this post is not directed towards anyone in particular_


That is sad 
Anyone who thinks that breeding an animal that they KNOW will have health issues is OK, need to re think what they are going to put that animal through for their own selfish reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Honeysuga

That was just a little attack, more serous ones have the horse down and convulsing. There is also a telltale roar as usually the horses lungs are fighting to keep moving as well. That horse should have been dosed quickly to stop the attack...


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## Poseidon

Aside from these HYPP ridden beasts, I have no issue with halter horses either. Last month, I moved Abby to a primarily halter showing barn. Although all of the horses have blankets on now, all but ONE is smaller than Abby, who is a 15.2hh, stocky Paint/QH.


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## Honeysuga

I personally love seeing all the dolled up halter ponies! The ones with correct conformation who exemplify the QH breed are stunning, nice that they can polish up for the show too.


----------



## Poseidon

One lady has Paints who I'm assuming show. A mare and her filly. The filly is almost a duplicate of her mom and they're stalled and blanketed, so even right now they're jet black and snow white...which is really pretty compared to Abby's dirty, winter woolied butt. I have only been there for a month, but I'm excited to see them all fancied up.


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## Honeysuga

That is one thing I dont like even with the nicer looking ones though, the unnatural way they are kept... Turning out at night, stalled all day, kept spotless and fed high concentrate feeds, using lights to alter their shedding cycles, it seems all very unhealthy for them mentally, physically, and emotionally.


----------



## ShutUpJoe

I'm not saying they are all like this but I had an ex-halter mare once that was a neurotic nutcase. But then I've had a couple halter bred horses that were never put into that lifestyle and they were angels.


----------



## Poseidon

I don't even know when those two are turned out. Maybe it's turning the day when I'm not there. I've seen them outside a couple times, but at different times of the day. Their owner comes and exercises them in the arena almost everyday. 
They only have 6 or 7 stalls, so some of the horses are always outside, just blanketed. I've only seen one of them act up from being stalled. I'm not even sure if she's a Quarter Horse. She looks more Thoroughbredy because she's really tall and has higher withers, but I can't tell because she's blanketed and I've never seen the rest of her body.


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## Honeysuga

Oh, I wasnt speaking of those mares specifically Poseidon, but generally those horses are confined like mental patients and wrapped from head to toe. It makes me sad. I am glad she works her horses and that they get to see daylight it is good for them.

It has very little to do with the horses themselves, just how they are kept.


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## Poseidon

Oh, I know. I was just saying that's my experience with it. I agree though. I am not a fan of the ones that are treated like objects rather than a living creature.


----------



## Honeysuga

That goes with any breed and discipline for me whether it is pleasure or dressage, halter or jumpers. I just feel horses are horses and should be allowed daytime turnout, and to eat lots of hay without being doprd up on sugars and supplements, and be allowed to get dirty... Haha kind of a horse hippie I guess.


----------



## mom2pride

myhorsesonador said:


> There has to be a balance though. every time I see a halter horse thread its full of "eww", "gross", "the halter industry is crap", and "halter horses are ugly"
> 
> There has been some nice looking horses in this thread but every one gets so fired up on it that they dont stop to think. It's not bad to have a good amount of muscle on a horse. tooth pics are bad and so are the ones that look like beasts, but why do we all have to sit around grossing out about them.
> 
> If people were to pay less atention to them eventualy they would wither away. Like we say in the dog training world "bad atention is still atention."


Perhaps it has more to do with the fact that it's the badly disproportioned ones that WIN in the major shows...not the ones that are well balanced with NORMAL muscle build up that comes from a good working regimine. 

I have no problem with a horse having good muscle, but excessive muscle does not mean a strong horse; on the contrary, alot of halter horses aren't even really athletic, because their bulk gets in the way...sad but true, and that is what discusts me about the halter scene, and why I could never 'breed' halter horses...atleast not the style that wins in the major arenas...


----------



## Poseidon

That's how I feel. When I was looking for places to board Abby, I got asked "Do you want stall or pasture board?" My response was usually "She's a horse. She can live in a pasture and get fat on hay." 

However, the most I plan to do with her are local barrel shows if that, so I'll let her just be a horse in a field.


----------



## mom2pride

Poseidon said:


> That's how I feel. When I was looking for places to board Abby, I got asked "Do you want stall or pasture board?" My response was usually "She's a horse. She can live in a pasture and get fat on hay."
> 
> However, the most I plan to do with her are local barrel shows if that, so I'll let her just be a horse in a field.


Yeah, my mare is in her paddock with run in all the time...no stall for her; she IS blanketed now, though, because she has the amount of hair coat suitable for FALL weather...poor thing started losing weight when ever it was really cold, so I broke down and started blanketing her...


----------



## Poseidon

mom2pride said:


> Yeah, my mare is in her paddock with run in all the time...no stall for her; she IS blanketed now, though, because she has the amount of hair coat suitable for FALL weather...poor thing started losing weight when ever it was really cold, so I broke down and started blanketing her...


I thought I was going to have to blanket Abby because she wasn't growing a winter coat forever. It was thicker than a normal coat, but not shaggy like I was expecting. Then I went home for Christmas and came back a few days ago, she looked like a bear. 

And stalling her would not be in my best interest, because she has ulcers. They've gotten better, but the meds the vet gave me are out. The vet's coming back out Tuesday because my lovely mare managed to (what I'm guessing) get her leg caught in a fence or gate because it's all scraped up and swollen and she won't put weight on it. I have to ask about the ulcers again then.


Okay /random rant.


----------



## Belle

Sorry to go off the topic a bit BUT a lady down the road from me gets ex racehorses from Hong Kong. The owners pay the cost to get to Australia and she then finds good homes for them..The sadest part is they dont know what its like to be a horse..They are kept in 10 story if not higher buildings and never get the chance to graze like a normal horse. They get over here and basically have to be taught how to be a horse again which takes at least 6 months..
Quite sad..


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## Honeysuga

That is sad.


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## GreyRay

I didnt even know they HAD horses in Hong Kong... What breed are they?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spanish2speaker

they have horses everywhere!!!! and i think that the horse is a horse builder instead of a body builder


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## Streakin

Poseidon said:


> Aside from these HYPP ridden beasts, I have no issue with halter horses either. Last month, I moved Abby to a primarily halter showing barn. Although all of the horses have blankets on now, all but ONE is smaller than Abby, who is a 15.2hh, stocky Paint/QH.


Eh, I still have issues with the halter horse industry(HYPP counted out)

I do not like how most are built. Tiny legs and hooves are NOT a desirable trait. Neither are up-right pasterns and post hocks, yet these conformational attributes seem to be desired.

Steroids ARE used, but there are cheaters in just about every discipline.


----------



## Eliz

...Any "bashing" thread annoys me. Why doesn't everyone stop complaining and being "disgusted" and do something about it... in the real world!

Or, you could create an educational thread about HYPP instead of whining about it.

Sorry.


----------



## Vidaloco

> If people were to pay less atention to them eventualy they would wither away. Like we say in the dog training world "bad atention is still atention."​


​

If there is something wrong going on in any industry, it is our duty to bring it to light. Bringing these subject up and discussing them on forums like this is a great thing, even if it hurts others feelings. Its through this freedom of information that change will eventually come. 
To say I hate it when someone bashes this industry or that discipline is trying to hide the light of knowledge under a basket. 
I have had an Impressive bred (hypp) horse and it did have an episode that finally killed her. I knew nothing of the defect at the time of her purchase. If forums like this inform one person than all the hurt feeling are worth it.


----------



## farmpony84

ShutUpJoe said:


> That poor horse! It's front legs are gross looking. They look backward. It's back and diaper bottom and poor back legs. ::shakes head::
> 
> I used to board at a halter place. He had one mare that was massive! She was put on the treadmill twice a day and wasn't allowed out of her stall. She had five or six different supplements with every feeding. She was HYPP postive.


I'm thinking this is a poor photo of the horse, if you go to their website, they don't look like they produce "garbage". Also, several times I saw where they were trying for an NN stallion. Here is where they talk about the mare.

_Her name is Sonnys Red Lace and she stands a good 16.1. She is a mare that sold twice for $100,000. Dudley loved this mare but he could not get her pregnant for years due to the fact that she had a torn cervix. I remember how excited he was when he finally got her in foal to Shanes Bake. That is the only time that I ever heard Dudley say he wanted a stud colt out of any mare. Both Dudley and I always wished for fillies but he thought a stud colt out of Sonnys Red Lace would give him the replacement stallion he was looking for. Unfortunately he passed away before the colt was foaled. He would have been so excited to have seen this colt and the fact that he tested NN for HYPP would have been the icing on the cake_

I'm not defending the purposeful of breeding for HYPP horse and I'm not defending the halter horse world. Yet, I hate to see threads like these. Here is the site to these folks should you be interested to look:

http://www.ellisquarterhorses.com/legs.htm


----------



## lacyloo

Eliz said:


> ...Any "bashing" thread annoys me. Why doesn't everyone stop complaining and being "disgusted" and do something about it... in the real world!
> 
> Or, you could create an educational thread about HYPP instead of whining about it.
> 
> Sorry.


Just wanted to point out that this thread is already educating people.


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## Eliz

lacyloo said:


> Just wanted to point out that this thread is already educating people.


Sure, it is now... but it wasn't created for that purpose.


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## ShutUpJoe

Eliz- What do you think we should do that many other people have already tried to do?


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## Gizmo

Doesn't it hurt them to be that built. I mean most of them have stick legs with HUGE bodies and muscle weighs more than fat. I'm sure it leads to a lot of leg problems just to win a show, that's really sad. Thanks god I haven't seen that in New Hampshire at all. All the halter horses that I have seen have been very healthy looking.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Nobody is bashing halter.

Nobody is bashing Quarter Horses.

People ARE discussing the absolutely revolting and immortal practice of deliberately breeding a potentially fatal and horrific genetic disease just to further their own agenda.

If that's not education, I'm not sure what is.


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## Eliz

Raise awareness in your area, set up booths with information packets at shows, heck you could even protest if you want to, work with your vet to set up discounted testing, raise money...There are lots of things that could be done.


----------



## lacyloo

Eliz said:


> Raise awareness in your area, set up booths with information packets at shows, heck you could even protest if you want to, work with your vet to set up discounted testing, raise money...There are lots of things that could be done.


But some people are unaware of this in the first place...
Thats where forum discussion comes in


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## Honeysuga

Oh dear Eliz, cant we have a thread discussing how immoral and positively disgusting it is without someone comeing in and standing on their little soap box about such threads...pulease...

VIDA!! Havent seen a post from you in so long!


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## ShutUpJoe

Eliz- I don't show and what store do you suggest I do that at? In order for a horse to be registered through AQHA they have to be tested. So what does it matter how much it costs?


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## Eliz

Honeysuga said:


> Oh dear Eliz, cant we have a thread discussing how immoral and positively disgusting it is without someone comeing in and standing on their little soap box about such threads...pulease...
> 
> VIDA!! Havent seen a post from you in so long!


Nope, never. :lol:

But to be fair y'all are on your soap boxes as well...


----------



## Eliz

ShutUpJoe said:


> Eliz- I don't show and what store do you suggest I do that at? In order for a horse to be registered through AQHA they have to be tested. So what does it matter how much it costs?


You don't have to show a horse to go to a show. Store? I never said anything about stores.


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## Streakin

I think this thread IS educational.

For 'education's" sake, how about we discuss the conformation of some halter types..positive and negative?


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## Honeysuga

Yeah, but we are all also not coming and stomping our feet and telling people to get off their butts and go out and start petitions and whatnot, we are having a discussion. Why dont you go out and raise awareness if it is so important to you?

Streakin- I think the ideal halter horse should exemplify what an athletic and versitile Quarter Horse should look like. It does not have to be perfect or fit one certain standard of looking since the horses can do so much there should be a variety of looks that are accepted as correct. Strong backs, nicely angled and not "posty" legs and good sized feet are a great place to start. Also sleek muscling, not bulk, is key to any horses athletic ability. i like to see a horse that is obviously fit and looks as if you could hop on it and spend the whole day deep in the brush, running poles in a gymkhana class, or roping and sorting cows. Doesnt hurt to have a pretty head and a shiny coat either.


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## farmpony84

Eliz said:


> Raise awareness in your area, set up booths with information packets at shows, heck you could even protest if you want to, work with your vet to set up discounted testing, raise money...There are lots of things that could be done.


A kit is only about $40 to test. That's pretty cheap already and you only have to test a horse that has Impressive genes.


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## Streakin

Honeysuga said:


> Yeah, but we are all also not coming and stomping our feet and telling people to get off their butts and go out and start petitions and whatnot, we are having a discussion. Why dont you go out and raise awareness if it is so important to you?


 There seem to be those that just cant handle any sort of criticism. No one here is being blatantly rude, or posting in a bashing nature. I have enjoyed this thread.

I learn best by honesty, and sometimes being criticized.

AQHA's mailbox is probably practically blown up with protesting letters about halter horses. Its not unknown to them that the general population is not pleased at the halter horse "standards".


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## Streakin

Honeysuga said:


> Yeah, but we are all also not coming and stomping our feet and telling people to get off their butts and go out and start petitions and whatnot, we are having a discussion. Why dont you go out and raise awareness if it is so important to you?
> 
> Streakin- *I think the ideal halter horse should exemplify what an athletic and versitile Quarter Horse should look like. It does not have to be perfect or fit one certain standard of looking since the horses can do so much there should be a variety of looks that are accepted as correct. Strong backs, nicely angled and not "posty" legs and good sized feet are a great place to start. Also sleek muscling, not bulk, is key to any horses athletic ability. i like to see a horse that is obviously fit and looks as if you could hop on it and spend the whole day deep in the brush, running poles in a gymkhana class, or roping and sorting cows. Doesnt hurt to have a pretty head and a shiny coat either*.


 Ill quote you again since you edited 

Exactly. Hunter types, reining types, barrel types, are all built slighlty differently for the desired discipline BUT, the conformation of all is *functional.*

Small feet, petite bone structure, up right pasters, and posty hocks are not desired as a conformation characteristic, much less a quarter horse that was bred to be a versatile breed.


----------



## Honeysuga

farmpony84 said:


> A kit is only about $40 to test. That's pretty cheap already and you only have to test a horse that has Impressive genes.


Honey didnt come with test results so I had to send off for hers. i was so nervous, never saw her have an attack or anything, but to me it could happen anytime.

All I had to do was pull out a small section of hairs from her mane and stick them to the adhesive area on the test form, then send it off and wait. 

The wait was awful, but I wanted to make sure if she was NH that I knew so I could start her on a specific diet and excersize plan that I had discussed with my vet. I was so excited when her results came back NN!

The test is really easy, a no brainer, the waiting just sucks.


----------



## ShutUpJoe

(re-read your post and saw that you didn't say store. I had to take my contacts out for awhile because they were bugging me.)

I have an idea. If anyone of us ever becomes a AQHA Halter horse judge let's not pick these beasts as the winners. If we show Quarter Horses in halter let's not let them end up like that. 

Now on to some pics of some nicer halter horses:


































You know from what I read back when Quarter Horses were first coming out as a breed they would show them in showmanship for the first two years of their life. Then they would show them in hand in one class and hop on them in another and do barrels, pole bending, roping and reining in another class. 

In order for some halter horses today to become riding horses they have to be re-conditioned.


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## Honeysuga

Not to mention they have to come off the insane sugar and lack of exercise high most of them are on constantly.

I would never make it as a halter judge, I would probably disqualify each and every one of those mutant behemoth looking hippohorses and give the owners a good lecture on proper care of their horses, it is evident that when they look that way they are not being properly cared for with their soundness and health both in mind. If the horse doesnt look rideable, it is NOT a decent example of the breed.

BTW, LOVE the withers and back on the chestnut(last one) you posted!


----------



## equiniphile

^Love those, the first is gorgeous....and, ohmygoodness, lacking a baby doll head!! :shock:


----------



## Streakin

ShutUpJoe said:


> (re-read your post and saw that you didn't say store. I had to take my contacts out for awhile because they were bugging me.)
> 
> I have an idea. If anyone of us ever becomes a AQHA Halter horse judge let's not pick these beasts as the winners. If we show Quarter Horses in halter let's not let them end up like that.
> 
> Now on to some pics of some nicer halter horses:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *You know from what I read back when Quarter Horses were first coming out as a breed they would show them in showmanship for the first two years of their life. Then they would show them in hand in one class and hop on them in another and do barrels, pole bending, roping and reining in another class. *
> 
> *In order for some halter horses today to become riding horses they have to be re-conditioned*.


 yes yes yes!

Quarter horses are practically defined by their versatility. Why then, are horses that can barely walk being held as the standard? Most halter horses arent even broke to ride


----------



## ShutUpJoe

And most never will be because they aren't built for it and by the time they get around to putting a saddle on their back they are lame.


----------



## Honeysuga

Ole Three Bars would roll in his grave if he saw what was passing as a quarter horse today. lol just thought of that


----------



## ShutUpJoe

ha ha I forget that he isn't. He is considered one of the best producers in the QH world. : ) Way better quality than the ones we are talking about.


----------



## Honeysuga

Off topic, but I just read 3Bars story and for a horse, it is quite an eventful one! sold as a youngster due to recurring lameness, then given away, then raced for a bit, retired to stud with a whopping $100 fee, becoming a great sire and growing to a $5000 fee, rustled and had his nose broken with a club then found wandering in a junk yard, Then dieing of a massive heart attack in the middle of breeding season...wow.

On topic, How could you even fit a saddle on the back of one of the hippohorses? Maybe a draft saddle?


----------



## Streakin

Three Bars is a legend for a reason!
He left a HUGE mark on the AQHA industry, especially barrel horses.


----------



## Vidaloco

Honeysuga said:


> Oh dear Eliz, cant we have a thread discussing how immoral and positively disgusting it is without someone comeing in and standing on their little soap box about such threads...pulease...
> 
> *VIDA!! Havent seen a post from you in so long!*


Hi! I pop in once in awhile. Just been busy or lazy :lol: 
Ok back to topic :wink:


----------



## Honeysuga

Well I missed you lol, ok, back to topic.


----------



## tempest

I found this...I thought it was interesting.

The Perfect Horse: Breeding halter horses


----------



## WilliesZipsation

Hmm...this is my horse Luke's grand daddy. And this is what halter horses today look like. I for one think this horse is gorgeous, and he is a two time AQHA world Champion, so he must be the ideal halter horse! Please don't make fun of him


----------



## Honeysuga

WilliesZipsation said:


> Hmm...this is my horse Luke's grand daddy. And this is what halter horses today look like. I for one think this horse is gorgeous, and *he is a two time AQHA world Champion, so he must be the ideal halter horse*! Please don't make fun of him


I think he is a post legged hippo horse with a pretty color. This IS what halter horses look like today, and Exactly what we are talking about. Sure he is the "Ideal" modern halter horse, but as we have said, the "Ideal" modern halter horse is, well, to the pretty much rest of the rational horse community revolting and useless.

Wait are you talking about hte buckskin or the liver?? I think the buckskin isnt too bad.


----------



## kaya

that cannot be good for the horse !!


----------



## Honeysuga

It isn't.


----------



## ShutUpJoe

Willie- Are you referring to Sinatra?


----------



## WilliesZipsation

Honeysuga said:


> I think he is a post legged hippo horse with a pretty color. This IS what halter horses look like today, and Exactly what we are talking about. Sure he is the "Ideal" modern halter horse, but as we have said, the "Ideal" modern halter horse is, well, to the pretty much rest of the rational horse community revolting and useless.
> 
> Wait are you talking about hte buckskin or the liver?? I think the buckskin isnt too bad.


I'm talking about the buckskin... and but think about this, that horse is somebody's prized possession, and a horse that is making them lots of money. So to the halter horse world that horse is neither revolting or useless...I'm not trying to be rude but how would you feel if someone called your discipline useless? 
I do agree though that Kids Classic Style (the buckskin) is really only good for breeding and halter classes. Still though, don't want to bad mouth anyone's beloved horse.


----------



## WilliesZipsation

ShutUpJoe said:


> Willie- Are you referring to Sinatra?


No, Kids Classic Style


----------



## Tennessee

This is the most pointless, useless post I've seen. What is the point of crying and whining on here? I also find it funny how in the beginning y'all found the WORST possible examples of halter horses and passed them off as the norm. How many of you have actually showed in the AQHA/APHA halter world (I inclued APHA because the ideal characteristics are very similiar now)? Heck, how many of you have even been to a halter show?

Truth is, yes. A lot of them are bad. Some of them go lame. Another truth, not every freaking halter horse looks like a gorilla. I used to have a few. They were more muscled than your average Quarter Horse, but they didn't look ANYTHING like those monsters y'all posted and we still placed and won a couple of times. 

Honestly, I could go out and find pictures of Rolkur and make a post whining about how REVOLTING and DISGUSTING Dressage is and you all would jump all over me. Stop whining about this, and perhaps get a taste of your own medicine. The last thing we need to be doing it criticizing disciplines on here. You want to make a difference? Don't sit on your butt on a horse forum, go OUT THERE and tell people at these shows about your opinions. Tell THEM the bad effects of HYPP. Not us.


----------



## Spastic_Dove

WilliesZipsation said:


> I'm talking about the buckskin... and but think about this, that horse is somebody's prized possession, and a horse that is making them lots of money. *So to the halter horse world that horse is neither revolting or useless*...I'm not trying to be rude but how would you feel if someone called your discipline useless?
> I do agree though that Kids Classic Style (the buckskin) is really only good for breeding and halter classes. Still though, don't want to bad mouth anyone's beloved horse.



I bolded for emphasis. 

That's the point of the thread. A horse that is bred for and successful in halter, many times (NOT ALL), can not excel in under saddle. Breeding for HYPP opens a world of issues and conformationally they are not an ideal for a good working horse. Not to mention the array of soundness issues that comes up in many (again, not all). 

By no means am I saying these are not probably sweet horses, but they are horses I feel bad for and 'useless' outside of a show ring. This is a big reason for why I am a fan of performance halter.


----------



## Honeysuga

WilliesZipsation said:


> I'm talking about the buckskin... and but think about this, that horse is somebody's prized possession, and a horse that is making them lots of money. So to the halter horse world that horse is neither revolting or useless...I'm not trying to be rude but how would you feel if someone called your discipline useless?
> I do agree though that Kids Classic Style (the buckskin) is really only good for breeding and halter classes. Still though, don't want to bad mouth anyone's beloved horse.


We are talking about 2 different buckskins then, i was referring to the yearling in the blog posted. Kid is exactly the type of horse we are talking about.

ETA, lol Tennessee we already have a few Rolkur threads, consensus here is usually if it is bad for the horses and makes them useless in anything else most HF members are against it...We also have threads about Big Lick showing, breeding super skinny almost unrideable halter Arabs, western pleasure horses, racing 2 year old TB and SB horses...and much more. We like to discuss these things.


----------



## WilliesZipsation

myhorsesonador said:


> Could you guys please STOP attacking the halter world. There is bad in all disaplans.
> 
> I'm really getting sick of these halter horse threads. I dont think I've ever seen a nice one. I have a halter horse, and I have worked with a lot of them. They dont all look like freeks.


Kudos to you for posting this, I totally agree!


----------



## Spastic_Dove

Ditto, Honey


----------



## Streakin

Tennessee said:


> This is the most pointless, useless post I've seen. What is the point of crying and whining on here?*Gasp, where are the tears*??:wink: I also find it funny how in the beginning y'all found the WORST possible examples of halter horses and passed them off as the norm.*Doesnt he have numerous tiles? He seems to be a very well noted halter horse* How many of you have actually showed in the AQHA/APHA halter world (I inclued APHA because the ideal characteristics are very similiar now)? Heck, how many of you have even been to a halter show?*I would never show halter horses. not my cup of tea. Ive actually been to several...around 10.*
> 
> Truth is, yes. A lot of them are bad. Some of them go lame. Another truth, not every freaking halter horse looks like a gorilla. I used to have a few. They were more muscled than your average Quarter Horse, but they didn't look ANYTHING like those monsters y'all posted and we still placed and won a couple of times.
> 
> Honestly, I could go out and find pictures of Rolkur and make a post whining about how REVOLTING and DISGUSTING Dressage is and you all would jump all over me. *The art of dressage is beautiful. I do not support rollkur however. Difference is, dressage horses are actually used for something*Stop whining about this, and perhaps get a taste of your own medicine. The last thing we need to be doing it criticizing disciplines on here. You want to make a difference? Don't sit on your butt on a horse forum, go OUT THERE and tell people at these shows about your opinions. Tell THEM the bad effects of HYPP. Not us.


Ive written several letters to AQHA:wink:


Spastic_Dove said:


> I bolded for emphasis.
> 
> That's the point of the thread. A horse that is bred for and successful in halter, many times (NOT ALL), can not excel in under saddle. Breeding for HYPP opens a world of issues and conformationally they are not an ideal for a good working horse. Not to mention the array of soundness issues that comes up in many (again, not all).
> 
> By no means am I saying these are not probably sweet horses, but they are horses I feel bad for and 'useless' outside of a show ring. This is a big reason for why I am a fan of performance halter.


Exactly. The horses arent usuable outside of looking pretty in **most** cases.


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## redbrew

Just saw a youtube National Geographic about 'double muscle' cattle - they are completely naturally bred for muscle and they look very weird, like his photo. But it was video and it was for real! The horse is shopped onto a different background from original pic, but the shadow image showing the horse walking in a different position looks like the same horse, even in some details. Interesting.


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## Honeysuga

They remind me of the Belgian Blues!! Same butts and everything.


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## WilliesZipsation

Spastic_Dove said:


> Ditto, Honey


Thanks for the support on this! <3


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## ShutUpJoe

Tennessee- I don't believe anyone on here said that EVERY halter horse looks like this... I've been around a lot of halter horses. I've seen them cramped in their stall most of the day. Only out to be lunged for a brief period of time or put on a treadmill. Or turned out in a small pen or round pen on their own. 

I've seen the supplements. I've dealt with a horse that was in that world and came out without a clue how to be a real horse. She was put in a pasture and stood there shaking like wolves were after her. She dropped so much weight because she wouldn't go anywhere near other horses to eat grass. I'm not saying that is every halter horse, just the ones I've been around.


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## Honeysuga

Spastic_Dove said:


> Ditto, Honey


 Im confused? Are you agreeing with me or scolding me?


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## mysticdragon72

Eliz said:


> Sure, it is now... but it wasn't created for that purpose.


Since I am the one who created this thread I guess I should address your comment. I'm just curious how you know what I was thinking when I posted that photo? To be honest I didn't think that it would escalate the way it did into the long, drawn out mess it has... my "purpose" for creating this thread was just to point out my shock about that particular photo and the fact that I didn't think it was an untouched pic....

I had NO CLUE that it could have been a true representation of that horse.. nor did I know anything about the current state of affairs in the halter industry... or any other showing for that matter, as I'm not now nor have I ever been interested in showing.

If in fact that horse in my original post does in fact look like that I feel sorry for the poor guy.

Anyways.... carry on. ;-)


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## Jessabel

I've never seen one of those being ridden, come to think of it. Can they even carry a rider with those little toothpick legs? They look like they're about to break from the weight of their huge bodies. :shock: 

Kinda reminds me of this guy. I don't know how you can find this aesthetically pleasing. He doesn't even move right. Poor thing.


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## A knack for horses

^His gaits don't even look normal. :-(


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## Deema

That's disgusting!
I'm sure the photos are photoshopped though, I mean, what is the point of a horse taking steroids, when, with the correct exercise, he'll have the muscle he needs to stay healthy and strong!


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## A knack for horses

Tennessee said:


> This is the most pointless, useless post I've seen. What is the point of crying and whining on here? I also find it funny how in the beginning y'all found the WORST possible examples of halter horses and passed them off as the norm. How many of you have actually showed in the AQHA/APHA halter world (I inclued APHA because the ideal characteristics are very similiar now)? *(1) Heck, how many of you have even been to a halter show?*
> 
> Truth is, yes. A lot of them are bad. Some of them go lame. Another truth, *(2) not every freaking halter horse looks like a gorilla.* I used to have a few. They were more muscled than your average Quarter Horse, but they didn't look ANYTHING like those monsters y'all posted and we still placed and won a couple of times.
> 
> Honestly, I could go out and find pictures of Rolkur and make a post whining about how REVOLTING and DISGUSTING Dressage is and you all would jump all over me. Stop whining about this, and perhaps get a taste of your own medicine. The last thing we need to be doing it criticizing disciplines on here. You want to make a difference? *(3) Don't sit on your butt on a horse forum, go OUT THERE and tell people at these shows about your opinions. Tell THEM the bad effects of HYPP. Not us.*


*1. *Yes, I've been to halter shows.

*2. *Nobody that has posted on this thread said EVERY halter horse looks like a cow on steroids. If you can find me one post on here that specifically said _"EVERY halter horse looks like the ones posted"_,I'll stand corrected. 

My instructor owns two halter bred horses, and neither look like the monsters posted here. I've seen other nicely conformed, _reasonably muscled_ halter horses as well. But the trend is for the massively muscled horses, and that is what we are discussing.

*3. *Do you know how many people can view this thread? Not only the members of the Horse Forum can, but anybody who visits this forum can as well. If that isn't getting the word out, I don't know how else to do so.

I have, and I will continue to get the word out. I've written an seven minute speech on persuading the AQHA to ban HYPP positive horses (N/H) form registration and competeing. 
~~~

This "mega-horse" practice needs to stop. And how else do we stop it other than stating our complaints, informing the public, and doing what is in our power. I think this thread is acomplishing the 2 former points. It is up to the individuals out there to do what they can, and I am doing my part to get rid of mega-horses in the show ring.


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## Spastic_Dove

Honeysuga said:


> Im confused? Are you agreeing with me or scolding me?


I'm agreeing with you.


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## RobertaB

It DOES look photo-shopped but, unfortunately, there are some who actually try to get their horses this...er...buff. Can't be healthy no matter how they do it...

We try to keep our horses' ribs just showing slightly, but we are more comfortable with a little more weight on them in the Winter, when they need a little more to eat to keep them warm...


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## my2geldings

You know, its one of those things that I don't understand, but I also hate putting down because I don't understand the principles or even reasons behind it. I'm sure those guys have probably a lot to say about the equipment most hunter or jumper breeders and riders use.


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## Honeysuga

Spastic_Dove said:


> I'm agreeing with you.


HAHA ok, After you posted, at first I thought that, but then when someone else thought you were agreeing with them then I was like waaaait maybe I should make sure Im not toeing the line here:lol:.


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## Honeysuga

A knack for horses said:


> *1. *Yes, I've been to halter shows.
> 
> *2. *Nobody that has posted on this thread said EVERY halter horse looks like a cow on steroids. If you can find me one post on here that specifically said _"EVERY halter horse looks like the ones posted"_,I'll stand corrected.
> 
> My instructor owns two halter bred horses, and neither look like the monsters posted here. I've seen other nicely conformed, _reasonably muscled_ halter horses as well. But the trend is for the massively muscled horses, and that is what we are discussing.
> 
> *3. *Do you know how many people can view this thread? Not only the members of the Horse Forum can, but anybody who visits this forum can as well. If that isn't getting the word out, I don't know how else to do so.
> 
> I have, and I will continue to get the word out. I've written an seven minute speech on persuading the AQHA to ban HYPP positive horses (N/H) form registration and competeing.
> ~~~
> 
> This "mega-horse" practice needs to stop. And how else do we stop it other than stating our complaints, informing the public, and doing what is in our power. I think this thread is acomplishing the 2 former points. It is up to the individuals out there to do what they can, and I am doing my part to get rid of mega-horses in the show ring.


BRAVO *whistles and claps* well said. I agree 100%.


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## lacyloo

Jessabel said:


> I've never seen one of those being ridden, come to think of it. Can they even carry a rider with those little toothpick legs? They look like they're about to break from the weight of their huge bodies. :shock:
> 
> Kinda reminds me of this guy. I don't know how you can find this aesthetically pleasing. He doesn't even move right. Poor thing.
> YouTube - CARIBBEAN KID - AQHA Halter Stallion - hypp N/N


Looks like hogzilla with long legs. :shock:


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## farmpony84

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Oh you'd be amazed - I doubt it's photoshopped at all. Sir Cool Skip is possibly the most revolting stud I've ever seen - courtesy of being a HYPP carrier! I don't understand how anyone can think this possibly looks right:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People who breed these monstrosities should be shot. He died this year at the ripe old age of 17. I'm sure THAT was from natural causes. :roll:


If you look beyond the muscling and the obesity some of these horses are really nicely built. This one, I would actually consider breeding to (if he were still alive and had been HYPP *NN*) I actually think that with the right mare, you could get a great all arounder. Would I buy a horse that was bred and used for halter? Nope.


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## MacabreMikolaj

It never ceases to amaze me how people can get all "het up" without bothering to even read. NOBODY IS BASHING HALTER HORSES. We are discussing the twisted individuals who think it is their right to ABUSE an animal with a potentially fatal genetic disease just to win ribbons. I do not understand what part of that ANY horse lover could possibly support. It shouldn't even be a controversy, it's a DISEASE.

As much as I dislike over muscled halter horses, as long as they are N/N then it's the owners prerogative pure and simple. I will NEVER quiet my voice over sadistic losers who think unhealthy animals are worth making a buck on.

Good point farmpony84 - another member of this forum posted photos on another forum of a stallion she likes. Despite being VERY heavy muscled in a halter fashion, he's a complete all around horse who competes in both halter AND performance. There definitely is a point where the muscling may be "undesirable" to me, but doesn't actually impact the animal's health or ability to perform and exist happily. That is something that shouldn't be bashed as it's a personal preference.


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## Honeysuga

Aside fron the obvious HYPP horses(you can just tell ith the muscling and where it is and how it is shaped which are hypp) The post legged trend is by far the most unhealthy for the horses. That stallion Caribbean Kid looked like he was skipping with his hind legs and completely unable to get them up under himself, there just was no movement in them at all. Why are post legs so desired in the halter ring? Im honestly asking this, it cant be mere coincidence that nearly all horses bred heavily into halter have rather posty legs with very little angle to them...


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## lildonkey8

honestly, explain to me why you think that is gross? i just don't get it


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## lilkitty90

i'm loving this thread! i never even knew about any of this really. the disease or anything! it's all crazy and *gasp* Educational! 

MysticDragon i'll point this out to you specifically. but that original photo is like a for sale ad or a stud ad. the horse ISN'T photoshoped itself but it is placed on a different background like most sale and stud ads are. to make it looks nice.


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## mysticdragon72

lildonkey8 said:


> honestly, explain to me why you think that is gross? i just don't get it


Who are you asking?


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## mysticdragon72

lilkitty90 said:


> i'm loving this thread! i never even knew about any of this really. the disease or anything! it's all crazy and *gasp* Educational!
> 
> MysticDragon i'll point this out to you specifically. but that original photo is like a for sale ad or a stud ad. the horse ISN'T photoshoped itself but it is placed on a different background like most sale and stud ads are. to make it looks nice.


Thanks... someone who replied to this thread actually told me the name of the horse in the photo and that particular photo (of the stud) was on the webpage I found and yes, the background is different BUT his ears actually look like that and the muscling isn't enhanced.... digitally at least.:?


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## Eliz

Well I want to apologize for posting on this thread, normally I would have bitten my tounge but it had been a long day/week.

There's nothing all that positive I can say about this thread, other than that I agree that today's halter horses are messed up. I'd also like so clarify that I am not "offended" by the "bash" because I am not even a part of the QH world.

Once again sorry for the negativity, it is not something I normally do as those of you who've seen me around can recognize. 

So, carry on!


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## Honeysuga

We all have those days Eliz, no worries.

Lildonkey, if you were referring to my comment on post legs, I do not find them gross, more I find them a conformation fault that hinders the horses ability to move freely. When they are bred more and more to look like that, I find it gross.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Eliz said:


> Well I want to apologize for posting on this thread, normally I would have bitten my tounge but it had been a long day/week.
> 
> There's nothing all that positive I can say about this thread, other than that I agree that today's halter horses are messed up. I'd also like so clarify that I am not "offended" by the "bash" because I am not even a part of the QH world.
> 
> Once again sorry for the negativity, it is not something I normally do as those of you who've seen me around can recognize.
> 
> So, carry on!


I have no problem with the negativity, because you're totally right, we shouldn't be starting threads just to bash something we dislike.

I know it meandered off at times, but for the most part I think the idea behind the thread was to show what monstrosity's HYPP can cause and to try and understand how someone would actually think that looked SO good that they would deliberately breed genetic disease into a horse to achieve it.

For the MOST part, I am fully aware that halter horses DON'T typically look like Sir Cool Skip. It's not the norm. I know a lot of people into halter and their horses certainly don't look like that!

I agree there are things wrong with EVERY discipline industry, but this small segment of halter breeders is as disgusting to me as the small segment of TWH breeders who still think BIG LICK is acceptable. There's a line between "personal preference" and "abuse" and I think you cross it when you're knowingly breeding disease into animals.


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## Honeysuga

MacabreMikolaj said:


> There's a line between "personal preference" and "abuse" and I think you cross it when you're knowingly breeding disease into animals.


Couldnt have said it better myself.


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## Streakin

Dont foget the upright pasterns!


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## Honeysuga

Angled pasterns are only helpful when moving, pshh, the horses dont need to be able to move comfortably as long as they look pretty!(sarcasm)


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## Streakin

Honeysuga said:


> Angled pasterns are only helpful when moving, pshh, the horses dont need to be able to move comfortably as long as they look pretty!(sarcasm)


 LOL.
Do I detect another smart***?:shock::lol:

Well, I guess theyre conformed perfectly after all then huh?

Posty hocks, pasterns, over bulked etc....pppsssh. Who needs functional confo right?


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## A knack for horses

MacabreMikolaj said:


> There's a line between "personal preference" and "abuse" and I think you cross it when you're knowingly breeding disease into animals.


Sort of off topic...
MacabreMikolaj, would you mind if I reworded and used this point in my HYPP speech for FFA? It isn't exactly factual, but during the Q&A section, that could be a very valid point to bring up.


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## lildonkey8

mysticdragon72 said:


> Who are you asking?


anyone who wants to answer, i just want someone elses point of view so i can a least kinda get it


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## mom2pride

lildonkey8 said:


> anyone who wants to answer, i just want someone elses point of view so i can a least kinda get it


Horses were not created to be THAT overbuilt...think about it, even drafty's don't look like some of the QH's in this thread...if they did, they wouldn't be of much use as a draft horse, because they couldn't set back on their hind quarters to pull...a horse with this much excessive muscling loses alot of his natural ability to run and be athletic (what he was created for, if you think of it from a "wild" horse stand point)...he would have way too much bulk to propel himself very far, and certainly wouldn't be very fast; he would be first to be taken down by a predator. Just because something has "huge" muscles, and lots of them doesn't mean they are stronger...it just means they are heavier, and alot of times will tire out before someone that is more appropriately proportioned.


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## MacabreMikolaj

A knack for horses said:


> Sort of off topic...
> MacabreMikolaj, would you mind if I reworded and used this point in my HYPP speech for FFA? It isn't exactly factual, but during the Q&A section, that could be a very valid point to bring up.


Definitely! Any small part I can play I am more then happy to!


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## Honeysuga

Oh lookie^^ see education is happening.


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