# Help Trailering a VERY diffcult mare



## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

OK so I sold my mare. And we sold due to her trailering issues. 
we have tried for 3 days now to get her to load and have not gotten her in. 

I am at my wits end here with her. I have had 2 trainers try I have tried and to no avail she is one that wil explode if you put to much pressure on her.

my goal her is to get her in the trailer NOT train her. I don't want her or anyone hurt. The new owner is very aware of her issues and is ready and willing as long as I can get her to her. This video is a short moment in 4 hours of the same thing

her is a short video of yesterdays gentle attempt.
F75D161D-93F6-4AFE-A988-B66ACF5E04C4-899-0000005DF95EB40F_zps911ed200.mp4 Video by saving_grace01 | Photobucket

Any suggestions??

also
I know there are Many many ways so all are welcome..
this is the only trailer available and she had loaded into it before.


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## Sherian (Aug 28, 2012)

as you're not trying to train - call the vet and drug her to the gills and be done with it.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Sherian said:


> as you're not trying to train - call the vet and drug her to the gills and be done with it.


I have Ace I got from the vet.. I gave her 1 cc last night to take the edge off I have 4 cc left .
At this point I will try anything


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Just work on it slowly. Notice how she was almost fully in, except her behind? Well, after a few seconds like that, just gently tap her on the behind until she makes a move to go forward - even if its just a lean. She is only checking everything out and sniffing everything. 
Put yourself in her hooves.. You're entering this small spaced, dark scary place and you have no idea what is in there. Horses are prey animals - just to keep in mind.
You you are tapping her and she moves backwards, keep asking her to go back into the trailer without stopping. When you stop and she goes back or doesn't move, then you are rewarding her for going back or holding still when you tap her. That is a bad habit and can be very hard to break.
I hoped this helped a little. good luck!!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

amberly said:


> Just work on it slowly. Notice how she was almost fully in, except her behind? Well, after a few seconds like that, just gently tap her on the behind until she makes a move to go forward - even if its just a lean. She is only checking everything out and sniffing everything.
> Put yourself in her hooves.. You're entering this small spaced, dark scary place and you have no idea what is in there. Horses are prey animals - just to keep in mind.
> You you are tapping her and she moves backwards, keep asking her to go back into the trailer without stopping. When you stop and she goes back or doesn't move, then you are rewarding her for going back or holding still when you tap her. That is a bad habit and can be very hard to break.
> I hoped this helped a little. good luck!!


Honestly this is exactly what she did for 4 hours rinse and repeat over and over....She WOULD NOT go past the streching forward . I and sorry I am over taking it slow right now 4 or 5 hours doing this out in the Cold 21* weather. I am so over mister nice guy effect.

I think what I need is one of those things the foot ball players practice on that the ram in to and put behind her and ram her in..
( I am not serious) just making fun of my ouwn situation.

I thank you for your suggestions


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## Sherian (Aug 28, 2012)

Don't waste your time with ace, have the vet out to mainline her with something stronger. After 3 days of her not getting on the trailer you'll want her toe dragging drugged - if you're worried about her falling over she can stand on the trailer for an hour before you leave.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I would take the center divider of the back doors out , open both doors, is there a stall divider inside? If there is take it out.


Doesn't it make you so mad, when they get in that far and no farther, because she looks like she is not afraid, just being stubborn.

Have you tried the John Lyons way to get in the Tap, Tap, Tap, then if they move forward stop tapping?

Is there someone in the trailer?


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I see you have done a suggestion I had, I actually figured you had.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> I would take the center divider of the back doors out , open both doors, is there a stall divider inside? If there is take it out.
> 
> 
> Doesn't it make you so mad, when they get in that far and no farther, because she looks like she is not afraid, just being stubborn.
> ...


the other door is to the back tack area so there is no opening up that side
the slant section is moved so it is actually pretty big on the other side of the door.

yes it makes me mad .. i am so ready for this horse to be gone..... no tears over this sale


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Since the need here is to get her to her new owner and not retrain...
Would she load with a buddy in first?
Do you know anyone with a large stock trailer or one that has a full rear door that opens all the way?
A commercial hauler might be a thought. 

A number of years ago we had an issues with my mare. We were at a trailhead and she refused to get in. My husband took his gelding home and got the neighbor with his stock trailer to come get us. The loading was not pretty but it was that or a 20+ mile ride and walk home. I told my husband we would NEVER again do that. We worked for three days rewarding each try and she now loads like she can't wait to go. Funny side note: We went camping with the same neighbors a couple of weeks later. He was pretty amazed when it was time to load for home she walked up to the trailer and stepped in without batting an eye. (I grinned a lot.) But you don't have 3 days.
We had a claustrophobia issue, I'm sure. Opening the entire back of the trailer helped. We took the stall divider out so the trailer was open. I was in the trailer (front escape) with the lead and my husband outside tapping. At no time was she restrained from backing if she wanted to do that. She would eventually get in like your mare and then want out. We let her but rewarded each try with rest. After 2 hours she got all 4 feet in, stood there for a few minutes, I asked her to back out and she went to the pasture. Next day it was 15 minutes and we closed the back doors. Less time the third day and no balking after that.
I wish you success. It's a frustrating problem.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

You have my utmost sympathy, my big guy is a pain to load, he has been explosive, rearing, being a real #$#@, last week he dragged my trainer face first across a car park...

Sigh, check out this thread http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/trailer-loading-tip-unexpected-benefit-question-153670/ it shows one way that worked like a charm for him, just slinging the lariat around his butt, we had a few good loads with that one, until last Sundays melt down.

Tried again during the week and simply got on the trailer first with a bucket of treats, and we had this





Other ideas, if you have a pen you can put her in, back the trailer up to it, and then have someone or someones come up behind her with a gate or a fence panel, haven't tried it, because I never have help, but I'm told it will work.

My farrier said he had one like that, he tied a long lead on her, tied one end in the trailer, and just left her standing, in the end she got bored and just load herself.

It's not pretty but get someone behind her with a broom and rub her butt with them.

Just some things that have worked, or people say will work.

Good luck.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Sherian said:


> Don't waste your time with ace, have the vet out to mainline her with something stronger. After 3 days of her not getting on the trailer you'll want her toe dragging drugged - if you're worried about her falling over she can stand on the trailer for an hour before you leave.


I like your Idea I will consult my vet. he is a awesome guy. its a good thing he is my friends BF .. but time is running LOW so IDK if he will be available or not


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> You have my utmost sympathy, my big guy is a pain to load, he has been explosive, rearing, being a real #$#@, last week he dragged my trainer face first across a car park...
> 
> Sigh, check out this thread http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/trailer-loading-tip-unexpected-benefit-question-153670/ it shows one way that worked like a charm for him, just slinging the lariat around his butt, we had a few good loads with that one, until last Sundays melt down.
> 
> ...


OMG my jaw dropped at the dragging ouch 
here is our set up we did last night ..









I will get a better picture this afternoon. we have her set up so trailer is in her turn out run.. her feed hay and water is in the trailer and None anywhere else . stall door is closed so she only has run and trailer.
we may try the panel today also considered a cattle prod << I am not for that I think it would prob send her over the top.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

GH the difference between her and Ben,... She has never been a easy to load horse.. <<<< almoset spelled that Hore oops lol


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

At this point, given the facts, I also suggest the use of chemical warfare - that is a professionaly administered intravenous tranquilizer. Any sort of adrenaline rush the horse has quickly negates the effects of the milder sedatives and since you've been at this for awhile now the horse is probably reved up to some extent with the process. 

If you get her tranq'd and she looks alittle unsteady on her feet, you may want to consider wrapping the legs to help cushion her if she looses balance.

Good luck.


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## doityourself (Mar 1, 2013)

Also, you could get her to that point in the video and then lock her in with a rope around her rear. Then she can't go anywhere but in. It would probably be a little ugly, but you could put a trailer guard on her head to keep her from hurting herself.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Critter sitter said:


> She has never been a easy to load horse.. <<<< almoset spelled that Hore oops lol


:rofl::rofl: I know how you feel.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

she has loaded in this trailer before 
the buddy idea is not one she will do... tried it :/
as for the stock trailer there is one but it is blocked by a huge pile of snow. (stupid kid pushed snow) and then after that it is a mud pit to that trailer ... 
my gf has a huge stock trailer goose neck but my truck wontpull a goose neck and I wont ask her to drive 8 hours round trip.

these are all great suggestions. thank you


Dustbunny said:


> Since the need here is to get her to her new owner and not retrain...
> Would she load with a buddy in first?
> Do you know anyone with a large stock trailer or one that has a full rear door that opens all the way?
> A commercial hauler might be a thought.
> ...


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## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

The video was a big help, it looks to me like you are asking her. "hey if its not too much trouble if you would be willing to think about getting in the trail, if you don't thats ok no biggie, but if you could it would be a big help."
I think you are training this horse to not get in the trail. she get to the point that she is in all but her hind legs, let her sand just a few seconds then ask her to step forward you do that well. But, you don't move on to tellling her to load. I would be *a little* more aggresive with telling her to step into the trailer. 
An other thing is have someone else be standing by the door and start to close the door as she gets in. 
If she comes flying out of the trail, put her right back at the door and start over. 

I do like how you are standing at the doo and asking her to move into the trailer without you. I see way to many people try and pull horses into the trail with them. I really like the way you are trying to get her to load. I would just say be a little more aggresive.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Thank you bob. That is the trainer that's working her. I paid her $100.00 to ask her to go in to the trailer. And after 4 hours 3 of which were about the same as this video over and over she still was not in. I paid the lady maybe I shouldn't bit I did. Grace is very reactive she if you push her to far she will blow up and rear an cow kick and walk on you. 

At this point in the game I try almost anything. I am headed back out there I. A few minutes and wi takes some more pictures and stuff. 

Thank you.


CowboyBob said:


> The video was a big help, it looks to me like you are asking her. "hey if its not too much trouble if you would be willing to think about getting in the trail, if you don't thats ok no biggie, but if you could it would be a big help."
> I think you are training this horse to not get in the trail. she get to the point that she is in all but her hind legs, let her sand just a few seconds then ask her to step forward you do that well. But, you don't move on to tellling her to load. I would be *a little* more aggresive with telling her to step into the trailer.
> An other thing is have someone else be standing by the door and start to close the door as she gets in.
> If she comes flying out of the trail, put her right back at the door and start over.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

I follow Clinton Anderson's methods.....I have never had a problem with my four and a boarder's horse loading.
Does your horse know how to send back and forth, what I do is stand where you are in the video and send them back and forth from one side of the trailer to the other, then ask them to go in the trailer. If they don't go in, then send them back/forth again....continue doing that until they get on the trailer. You want the horse to relate outside of the trailer with work and inside is rest.....do a search on Youtube for Clinton Anderson and watch some of his vids up there. Good luck!


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

The trick with the tap, tap, tap, method is you never hit harder than a tap, I have always been able to get a horse in with this method. The constant tapping gets to them eventually. I know how hard it is not to start wacking, but that would be too much pressure, and she might, as you say explode.
A ramp trailer might help too.


The worst horse I ever loaded was a friends, we were about 18 years old, We were at a show and everyone was gone, and we still couldn't get that SOB in the trailer, there was a cattle chute to load cattle into semi trucks, so basically it was a ramp about 12 feet long, one horse wide, going to about 7 feet high with 5 foot tall sides. We backed the horse on to the ramp, and I backed my trailer to the bottom of the ramp, the owner got behind the horse on the ramp and gave him a good swift kick in the butt. He walked down the ramp and right into the trailer.
One of the dumb things I have done with a horse, but it worked.

I feel your pain!


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## AriatChick772 (Feb 13, 2013)

My first bad loader, no matter what work I did or any trainer did, she would walk up and run back. The only way we could ever get her loaded was when she walked up, someone would tie the rope snug to the inside of the trailer, she'd sit back, rear up, and jump right in every time. 

One of the more wild ones, he would NOT load and I was just ready to get him gone. They came to get him and after three hours, each time we'd walk him up, he'd throw himself down on the ground. I gave them free rein to do whatever. They ran a long rope through the front of the trailer, tied it to the hitch of another truck and dragged his butt in the trailer. He went on and layed down half way through but sure enough once he was in there he jumped up, shook off and was fine... It was bizarre.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

AriatChick772 said:


> My first bad loader, no matter what work I did or any trainer did, she would walk up and run back. The only way we could ever get her loaded was when she walked up, someone would tie the rope snug to the inside of the trailer, she'd sit back, rear up, and jump right in every time.
> 
> One of the more wild ones, he would NOT load and I was just ready to get him gone. They came to get him and after three hours, each time we'd walk him up, he'd throw himself down on the ground. I gave them free rein to do whatever. They ran a long rope through the front of the trailer, tied it to the hitch of another truck and dragged his butt in the trailer. He went on and layed down half way through but sure enough once he was in there he jumped up, shook off and was fine... It was bizarre.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually have given thought to drugs and a winch
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wanstrom Horses (Dec 23, 2012)

She's not that bad compared to what I've seen. Take a lariat rope, loop it over her hind end with the hondo in the middle of her back, when she steps her front feet in, suck that rope tight on her til she jumps in. If she won't respond to the butt rope, put it around her flanks. I've fixed so many horses using this method..


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

When she in 1/2 way in like in the video, just make sure you are leading her with a long rope or lungeline, loop it through a front window and pull her in from the outside, with a smack on the butt from the outside. Never seen that method not work, it's not a training method, it's a loading tacit.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Tried a lunge rope after a little ace and pulling her in. That was not so good she ended up almost going over backwards. No one was in the pin but didn't want her to hurt her self.
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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

This may be a option


Wanstrom Horses said:


> She's not that bad compared to what I've seen. Take a lariat rope, loop it over her hind end with the hondo in the middle of her back, when she steps her front feet in, suck that rope tight on her til she jumps in. If she won't respond to the butt rope, put it around her flanks. I've fixed so many horses using this method..


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Drug her and haul her. Drama over, hands washed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Had a sketchy horse load in my little but tall 2h straight after one wonky look. He baulked, sniffed and jumped on. Even stood still as a statue while we chatted for 10 mins. Put the truck in drive and he WIGGED. Never saw anything like it. Less than 20 feet down the driveway I had to stop, he was rocking the truck hard. Looked inside the trailer to find him straddling the divider. Flipped himself around twice, stood in the manger twice and finally destroyed the divider enough, we didn't have to worry about him killing himself getting hung up in the butt chains if we opened a door. They were obliterated. 

He had hauled in a smaller trailer solo before. No idea what his deal was.

You've sold the horse. Dope it and be done with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

hemms said:


> Drug her and haul her. Drama over, hands washed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've tried drugging her it has not phased her! Uuuuug
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Ace 2 cc and she blew up
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When a horse goes in that far I'll just start tapping on it's hip, not with a flag or plastic attached. I want the tapping to be annoying so the horse will want to move away from it. It stops the moment it even rocks forward, wait a few seconds then start again on the same spot. The idea isn't to inflict pain. The horse may load and back right out and that's ok, but it will learn that the only way the tapping stays away is to step up and stay there.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

We have done that for hours on end saddlebag 



Talked to the vet he says there are stronger sedatives but it might make it physically impossible to load her
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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Critter sitter said:


> I've tried drugging her it has not phased her! Uuuuug
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What drug do you suggest??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Critter sitter said:


> Ace 2 cc and she blew up
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I believe someone already mentioned a few times that vets carry heavier stuff. Be done with all this messing around. You're risking the sale.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

hemms said:


> I believe someone already mentioned a few times that vets carry heavier stuff. Be done with all this messing around. You're risking the sale.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally agree with you I been in contact with my vet and he is afraid to use anything else that she might be too sedated to load and Travel
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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Rompun (Xylazine). I have used this and given it IV. I do not recall the dose. 

Ace is useless if the horse gets excited at all.. the horse can over ride it. ALL tranq's are dangerous because the horse can still move like lightning when it looks half dead with sleep. I saw a half dead with sleep horse kick an Xray plate to kingdom come so fast I never saw her move.. she kicked and put her foot back down exactly where it had been. This was an X ray for a PPE. 

Most horses that will not load in a horse trailer (slant or otherwise) will walk right into a stock trailer. Big open area.. doesn't feel like a trap. 

Have you tried a blind fold? I have gotten horses to go lots of places by simply putting a sweatshirt over their eyes. Might try it when the horse is calmly part way in.. just blind fold and then try to lead the horse forward. Be careful doing this. While I never had a wreck and it always worked it always seemed it could lead to a wreck. The blind fold calmed the horse.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

When does she need to be hauled?? Do you have days and weeks to keep doing this?? I really feel for you.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

We have been trying to load her from Wednesday. No I don't have days or weeks. I'm almost to the point of throwing in the towel I've never ever had this much problem it's ridiculous.
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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I can't imagine getting a horse in that far and not getting it loaded. I had the same thing happen to me and 4 hours later this is what I did. Alot of people can't figure out when to give pressure and when to release so I had someone in the trailer with a long lead and loose. If the horse wanted to come back out I let it and then when I lost my temper I took my buggy whip and kept snapping it at the horses rear legs and not once touch the horse. It bounced around a bit and I kept at it and it went in and was fine. I do believe your tack comes oout and folds up and you can open both sides. 

The next time I loaded by myself with a lunge line up through the front so I could lead the horse forward but be behind her with the whip. Took 5 minutes to load.

After that fiasco I now stand in the trailer off to the side point the horse in and take my buggy whip and gentle tap her behind and she goes in with in 30 seconds but at anytime she gets her front end I am ok with her for a bit and if she backs out I let her and then I mean business and she goes in.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Are you doing this by yourself?

I know you know your trailer but are you sure that tackroom doesn't collapse against the wall if you take the saddle rack out, most do.

You are very patient, I might have gotten out the gun by now.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

Sounds like you're being too nice. If a horse went in that far and refused to move, I'd be getting a bit more aggressive with loading her regardless of whether she'd flip out or not. She's playing a game and she is _getting her way over and over again_. Make it stop.

Someone on here worked the snot out of the horse and the only rest the horse saw was if it went into the trailer. Eventually, the horse understood that the trailer meant rest and the only way to get rest was to get on the trailer.

I've done the "rope butt" thing before. Someone else mentioned looping the rope through the trailer windows and pulling her while someone else used the butt rope. I like this idea. Pull/push, the second she takes a step in, release. Give her a rest for a could minutes, maybe a handfull of grain and then do it again. Inch by inch, you'll head into the trailer.

Have you tried twitching? If your vet won't drug her for the ride, find another vet. Seriously, you're letting this horse get away with murder.

At this point, being "nice" isn't the answer. You're afraid she'll flip out...well let her flip out and find out what the consequences are for flipping out.

The "food in the trailer" idea is another nice approach. Eventually you are going to have to meet this head on and force her into the trailer. Put some food in the trailer with the set-up you have right now, but put it all the way at the front of the trailer so she'd at least have to go in half way to go get it. Come in behind her with lungelines (you'll need a couple people for this) to act like a fence. Pressure her in. Use a lunge whip. Her ONLY CHOICE is to go forward. She CAN NOT go back. There is a FENCE there now. Don't be scared to whip her little butt. Its time to get this done. 

You can also move the roundpen panels up behind her when she goes in to eat. She can not back out. She can only go forward. Use a lunge whip to reinforce this.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

We have had help. 2 trainers and others. I'm done put a bullet in me I'm soooo done
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Borrow a stocktrailer and a whiffel bat!


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Critter sitter said:


> We have had help. 2 trainers and others. I'm done put a bullet in me I'm soooo done
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



NO, No, NO, the bullet is for her!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

I know the bullet is for her I'm just frustrated ...







this is the set up. I have no other trailer use
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Looks rather pleased with herself, doesn't she? How far is it to the new owners? Can't just ride or lead her over there?


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## Sherian (Aug 28, 2012)

torbugesic, domosedan whatever your vet uses. Giving her ace is like giving me a shot of whiskey to do surgery. You want her toe dragging, head hanging, drooling drunk, staggering looks worse than it really is, she's been getting away with not loading for too long with you for her to have any leeway. One person heads, two people to tail and frog march her on. Leave her on the trailer for an hour to sleep it off before you drive away.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Can you make a chute out of those panels?
Know any ranchers with a cattle truck?

A commercial hauler may have a trailer she would walk into. You could talk to one. Might be worth a try. How bad do you want her gone at this point?

I'd be sitting in a corner with a bottle by now.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

waresbear said:


> Looks rather pleased with herself, doesn't she? How far is it to the new owners? Can't just ride or lead her over there?


The horse you see is Cody my gelding the trailer is in the next run. And as far as riding it is a 31/2 hour drive
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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

well I know I had a neighbor who asked me to take my 2 horse straight load/with a ramp to load two horses she bought......I went and I watched the original owner and a couple of their friends try to load the one for well over an hour, they finally came and asked if I could give it a try.....so I took the horse, did the C pattern with it walking around, walked to the trailer, he wouldn't get on.......so I sent him back/forth, after a few times of that he walked right in.....took me maybe 15-20 mins. to get him on the trailer.
My horses I just have to stand at the end, throw the lead over their backs as they walk in and put the butt bar across.......


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Critter sitter said:


> The horse you see is Cody my gelding the trailer is in the next run. And as far as riding it is a 31/2 hour drive
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Sorry, well at least he looks happy! 3 & 1/2 drive? That would be quite the hike! Next time I read this thread, I would like to see her in that trailer!


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## Thrill Ride (Feb 18, 2013)

First Problem, try and get a stock trailer. I know MANY horses who will not load into a horse trailer and even having a rear tack makes it worse. We have a stock trailer because our one horse does not like and travel well in a horse trailer.

Our mare Sassy when we got her was deathly afraid of trailers. When I mean deathly, the moment she would see one or hear one (rattling) she would go sycotic. You couldn't get her 30 feet near the trailer. It took us at least 4 people to load her as her owner wanted to just get her in. We backed the trailer up into the barn, and we had 1-2 people trying to pull her in, and we had a butt rope on her. She would eventually give into the pressure and walk in. We once fought with her for an hour in pouring rain to get her in. We did try the drugging trick with her and she still had a mind. It took a butt rope to get her in.

One day we had someone's bigger trailer, ours was only a 6' high trailer, and we had someones 6'5. I asked to go work with her and I was able to. I took her out and let her go sycotic and eventually got her to the trailer and I walked her round and round that trailer and let her sniff every square inch until she didn't want to smell it again. I walked her infront of the door closed/open. Her owner had told me that "You will never get her in, you might get her close but she will never get in that trailer without force". She eventually got comfortable with being around the trailer, I let her smell the inside, look in, etc... I would be in the trailer and give a firm tug and hold it. She usually would resort to backing so I would walk her around the trailer sniffing, etc.. She made one step in and I backed her out and praised her. In 20 minutes she walked into the trailer. This is a 16hh Thoroughbred mare I was talking about who is built like a tank. She had some trailer trauma.

You could try that method... or

I talked to a trainer and they said about lunging them infront of the trailer and then asking them to go in. If they take a step in then praise and let them stand there for a bit. Then back them out and lunging them by the trailer, attempt again and let them rest when they have a foot in. 

Now.. If you want to go with force methods.. then I will give you ideas.
Now that same thoroughbred we hadn't trailered in over a year. She wasn't scared of the trailer when we tried loading her a few weeks ago, she just didn't want to load. When we left the vet she was still sedated from having her teeth done and she was pretty out of it before we walked out. The moment she saw the trailer you could tell her mind just switched. It took 5 people to load her. It was already dark and 7pm and the ground was icy so I couldn't lunge her. The vets wanted to go home too. They took a lariat and tied it to one side of the trailer and got two people on the otherside and put it on her hindquarters, and had someone whipping the ground behind her. Did she try kicking? Yes. Did it still take us a while to get her in? Yes. I have also seen at that vet they would take a lariat and put it around the hindquarters. And then pulled the lariat and they could control the hindquarters. Our stud hates loading into a trailer. Likes to rear. But if we take a rope and tie it to one side of the trailer and put it behind him and if it just touches his legs he will walk right in but if we don't its a war. 

So those are a few ideas. But I would really recommend getting a stock trailer and opening all doors. Your horse might be claustrophobic.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

She has no access to a stocktrailer, this is only one she can borrow.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

Have you tried the sending method with her? I used to have difficulty loading my colt sometimes but now that we've got the ending method down, I point and he hops right in without hesitation. It's like sending them in a half a lunge circle, then yielding their quarters on the opposite side. 

That, or the lunging method. Lunge her in front of the trailer then motion her to go in. If she refuses, lunge her again then ask again. Any time they think about going in the trailer with forward motion, let them rest. If she refuses by stepping back, lunge her again. This video kinda shows you an example. It's not the best. Henny was fidgeting around then decided to eat some rocks, so I was more focused on him at that point LOL.

014-14.mp4 Video by kayella_kairos | Photobucket


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

She's done it already and had 2 trainers try as well.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

I did see the video at the beginning. I agree with the others that she should have been more aggressive while she was half way in the trailer. Like they said, it's not a "Oh, could you please get in the trailer when you fee like it?" At this point, after all you've gone through, it needs to be a "I'm going to work your butt off until you're in that trailer." She needs to be mentally pushed, albeit carefully or she'll explode, but she needs to understand that you're telling her to get on that trailer and not asking her.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

No report for awhile, maybe she got him in? Hope so!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Well my awesome vet let me come by and get meds. 2 doses Of rompun and 2 of ace. At 10:30 at night. Wow he is really a awesome person. We are going to start over tomorrow. 

Thank you all for your suggestions really. Some them have been tried. Some I would love to try but don't have what I need to try them. 

I was worried about the way she was looking after all the stress and she had not eaten or drank on a day. So I did give he a little and then a trail into the trailer. Yawn it's been a very long day. 

Thank you again all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

I wish a few of you were closer. I would pay you to help. I just read all responses. Thank you all off to try to sleep. Good night
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Honestly, I think this horse has learned it doesn't have to do what it doesn't want to do.

I'd blindfold horse, run rope through window and get it in. Or drug it with better drugs.

If you had two strong men to join wrists and get her under butt and lift her in while someone held tension on rope that might work.

But by now? I'd have torn that rear end up for her. HCTJM is what is needed here.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I will be outta here most of today. Will be interested to see where this goes. 

You are in NEBRASKA. There MUST be cattle haulers around who would take this horse in a stock trailer. For money of course.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Get a few strong people with an ounce of horse sense and a rope behind the **** will work wonders. She will kick, throw a strop, has a hissy fit, but will eventually give in. Sometimes playing nice is not going to work and you just need to get on with things. 

We also previously had a horse who was lovely at everything bar loading. We were under pressure to get to a schooling race so we got a round bale of straw and rolled it up behind her so that she couldn't come back. She kicked the heck out of the bale, but it pushed her the whole way in and nobody was injured in the process.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

I have rompun to use now. Last night I made a trail of food going in to the trailer to see if she would follow. Well then the vet sent a text that I could come get the drugs at 10:15. When I got back most of the grain was gone and she had knocked her water over. The water was way way up front. So I rhink she got in then the water spilling spooked her and got back out. I'm going to wait ti I have extra hands and then give the rompun and may have to physically lift her in. But she will get in today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Elana said:


> I will be outta here most of today. Will be interested to see where this goes.
> 
> You are in NEBRASKA. There MUST be cattle haulers around who would take this horse in a stock trailer. For money of course.


All the cattle haulers I know are in the road some place . 


I have to say the buyer she is so sweet she knows every detail a out what's going on and is so ready to bring her there and help finish her training. 

I couldn't have found a better home. A closer one maybe but not better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Palomine said:


> Honestly, I think this horse has learned it doesn't have to do what it doesn't want to do.
> 
> I'd blindfold horse, run rope through window and get it in. Or drug it with better drugs.
> 
> ...


I'm still half asleep but what is H TJM ??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tailskidwest (Jan 8, 2013)

Not to be too crude about this, but quit handling her like a horse. It has been said the only object here is to get her hauled, not trained. 1 or 2 CCs of Ace won't do anything on a full grown horse. Load her up with at least 6 CCs given orally while the horse is calm, walk away and wait 45 minutes for it to take effect. If you excite the horse prior to that she will blow right through it. If you use anything stronger, after the horse is in the trailer, wait till it wears off some or the horse has a good chance of falling down while on the road. Get her drugged, have a chute made to the back of the trailer, find some cattle folks to help and treat her like a bull. Drive her from behind (buggy whips, using the handle end or a stock sorting stick) and let her know in no uncertain terms the only place for relief is in the trailer. Turn the lights on in the trailer so its not a dark hole. Make sure your chute is set up so you can get the door shut as soon as she is in. Get her moving towards the trailer as fast as you can so she goes clear in when she goes. Less apt to rear at the door this way. It ain't pretty and who ever has to train her later to trailer load will have their work cut out for them, but this works. Have loaded multiple stray feral horses and unbroke race horses amped up on 20 lbs a day Omalene 300 this way. The worst part is you have already trained the horse to defeat you at loading, so completely change your approach. Once you get her in the trailer, get moving as soon as you can. Most all horses will settle down once they are moving. Don't go in the trailer and try and tie her, just leave her loose and go. At the destination, back up to a pen, open the door and get out of the way! She may rush out, she may just stand there. Either way, you don't want to get in her way. Good luck to you!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Hightime for a Come To Jesus Meeting... is my guess... 

IOW's she has laid down the gauntlet.. and let the fight ensue.. and BTW you losing is not the answer.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

tailskidwest said:


> Not to be too crude about this, but quit handling her like a horse. It has been said the only object here is to get her hauled, not trained. 1 or 2 CCs of Ace won't do anything on a full grown horse. Load her up with at least 6 CCs given orally while the horse is calm, walk away and wait 45 minutes for it to take effect. If you excite the horse prior to that she will blow right through it. If you use anything stronger, after the horse is in the trailer, wait till it wears off some or the horse has a good chance of falling down while on the road. Get her drugged, have a chute made to the back of the trailer, find some cattle folks to help and treat her like a bull. Drive her from behind (buggy whips, using the handle end or a stock sorting stick) and let her know in no uncertain terms the only place for relief is in the trailer. Turn the lights on in the trailer so its not a dark hole. Make sure your chute is set up so you can get the door shut as soon as she is in. Get her moving towards the trailer as fast as you can so she goes clear in when she goes. Less apt to rear at the door this way. It ain't pretty and who ever has to train her later to trailer load will have their work cut out for them, but this works. Have loaded multiple stray feral horses and unbroke race horses amped up on 20 lbs a day Omalene 300 this way.* The worst part is you have already trained the horse to defeat you at loading,* so completely change your approach. Once you get her in the trailer, get moving as soon as you can. Most all horses will settle down once they are moving. Don't go in the trailer and try and tie her, just leave her loose and go. At the destination, back up to a pen, open the door and get out of the way! She may rush out, she may just stand there. Either way, you don't want to get in her way. Good luck to you!


My emphasis added. I agree 100%.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

tailskidwest said:


> Not to be too crude about this, but quit handling her like a horse. It has been said the only object here is to get her hauled, not trained. 1 or 2 CCs of Ace won't do anything on a full grown horse. Load her up with at least 6 CCs given orally while the horse is calm, walk away and wait 45 minutes for it to take effect. If you excite the horse prior to that she will blow right through it. If you use anything stronger, after the horse is in the trailer, wait till it wears off some or the horse has a good chance of falling down while on the road. Get her drugged, have a chute made to the back of the trailer, find some cattle folks to help and treat her like a bull. Drive her from behind (buggy whips, using the handle end or a stock sorting stick) and let her know in no uncertain terms the only place for relief is in the trailer. Turn the lights on in the trailer so its not a dark hole. Make sure your chute is set up so you can get the door shut as soon as she is in. Get her moving towards the trailer as fast as you can so she goes clear in when she goes. Less apt to rear at the door this way. It ain't pretty and who ever has to train her later to trailer load will have their work cut out for them, but this works. Have loaded multiple stray feral horses and unbroke race horses amped up on 20 lbs a day Omalene 300 this way. The worst part is you have already trained the horse to defeat you at loading, so completely change your approach. Once you get her in the trailer, get moving as soon as you can. Most all horses will settle down once they are moving. Don't go in the trailer and try and tie her, just leave her loose and go. At the destination, back up to a pen, open the door and get out of the way! She may rush out, she may just stand there. Either way, you don't want to get in her way. Good luck to you!


if you have read my posts you will see I have now Rompun I do have more ace also but will use Rompun first we need her Drugged so she does not get hurt. We tried to Rough house her in yesterday and she about went up and over a panel. I want her loaded NOT hurt


I would love to try Allot of many suggestions and If I had the means and materials I would.. I do appreciate all suggestions and Have Used some of this to learn and help. 

Thank you


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Elana said:


> My emphasis added. I agree 100%.


do you suggest I let her end up hurting some one or her self ? she has been bullyed/beat so much before I got her that Trailering is a terrible thing she not so much afraid of the trailer as what is going to happen behind her when she is going in


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

All positive thoughts for you today Critter, nothing so sure than if you had all of us there with you she would be loaded by now, sheer weight of numbers would of won.

Also nothing surer than it is far easier to load someone else's horse over the internet, lots of great ideas been given here, but as I know only to well, not every idea works with every horse


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Can you borrow a more open stock trailer to get her loading? Mine didn't care for the little two horse but will much more readily go in the stock as it isn't as closed in.


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## KyMoMoF3CuTiEs (Feb 5, 2013)

Thinking about you today!!!! Sending peaceful vibes your way! Hope you all get her loaded! Also have to tried to saddle her with a tie down, then load? as then she may think she
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Thank you gh. Thank you thank you


Golden Horse said:


> All positive thoughts for you today Critter, nothing so sure than if you had all of us there with you she would be loaded by now, sheer weight of numbers would of won.
> 
> Also nothing surer than it is far easier to load someone else's horse over the internet, lots of great ideas been given here, but as I know only to well, not every idea works with every horse


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> Can you borrow a more open stock trailer to get her loading? Mine didn't care for the little two horse but will much more readily go in the stock as it isn't as closed in.


No I can't. The only only one close is in mudd behind a huge snow pile. 

It is a bigger 2 horse. But small opening
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AriatChick772 (Feb 13, 2013)

Just had another crazy loader this morning. It was about to get bad and a man threw his jacket over his head and blindfolded him. That horse literally trotted right in the trailer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Here now I'll update later
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the suspense!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Well she's in !!!!
And this is the one who got her in. This young lady is amazing. My 14 year old daughter bre. 










And a nose shot 










Haha 
Thank you everyone!!!'
You all were a awesome help also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

It was the lariat loop on the butt that did it and LOTS of drugs but the drugs more irritated her. And bre alone BM standing guard to close the door 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!! Did you blindfold her too?? I see something red on her face. 
Tell Bre she is awesome!!! Oh never mind, I see that's a hay bag, lol. My bad!


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, God Bless America!!!!!
Great photo of your daughter. If I were a horse and she looked at me with that expression, I'd hop into a trailer with no questions asked.

Congrats and have a safe trip.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Good job Cowgirl, no need to ask if you are tough enough to wear pink:thumbsup:


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I would get in the trailer if I had Bre telling me to too.
She looks though.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Yay! Bre, you rock girl!


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

I didn't read the whole thing (and saw that she got in, Yay!) but I had a similar experience with my mare.

Long story short, she had a bad experience and was terrified of trailers. We tried for hours and she ended up flipping over backwards.

We ended up sedating her with Dormosedan (sp?) and it worked like a charm. I highly recommend it for horses who won't load but you HAVE to get somewhere, like I did.

We have since retrained her and she now loads like a pro!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Good on you and your daughter getting her loaded. Did she arrive at her destination OK???


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

She's all tucked in at new home. YAY
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Yay, I bet you are going to sleep well tonight!


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Yay!!!!! Bre has a real "don't mess me with face" eh?? 

Well done to both of you, I am delighted!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Dustbunny said:


> Well, God Bless America!!!!!
> Great photo of your daughter. If I were a horse and she looked at me with that expression, I'd hop into a trailer with no questions asked.
> 
> Congrats and have a safe trip.


LOL I did not realize the expression on her face .. That is funny!!:lol:
I am so Proud of her. 
I swear Grace was being that difficult cause she didn't want us to miss her when she was gone.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

nvr2many said:


> Yay, I bet you are going to sleep well tonight!


LOL all 2 21/2 hours of sleep were Great. I am at work now and the coffee is in hand.. I pray I can make it through!!
Bre slept the whole way back. it was a 9 hr round trip. :shock:


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Sunny said:


> I didn't read the whole thing (and saw that she got in, Yay!) but I had a similar experience with my mare.
> 
> Long story short, she had a bad experience and was terrified of trailers. We tried for hours and she ended up flipping over backwards.
> 
> ...


she had 2 big doses of Rompun and some ace too. that didn't phase her! I think it just made her mad and yes she was calm when I gave it to her.
Aspen her new owner was wonderful in her understanding and she plans on working with her on trailering Grace will be right on her property so she'll be able to work with her. They are a great match.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Elana said:


> Good on you and your daughter getting her loaded. Did she arrive at her destination OK???


yes we got there at 8 pm I had no service on my phone way way out there!!!! 
she will have about 10 acres with a nice run in and all the hay she can eat. her and her new owner a good match and the owner is a great gal.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I had a gelding that was like that--big mess, afraid of like, E V E R Y T H I N G, including the trailer. Fortunately I bought him from a friend and she bought him back. Too many problems I NEVER had had to deal with. Crying out loud, when I bought "Corporal", (1982-2009, RIP), as a 4yo at the auction where I outbid the Meat Market by $5, he was the last horse bid on, and everyone was gone, and I had NO lead. He led into my stock trailer with a piece of baling twine! 180 degree difference between him and "******." He was also totally green when I first saddled him. Good attitude with all I trained him to do.
In case anyone is reading this, I have used Ace powder before. IF you do, you must keep the horse calm for one hour, or else it won't work. I had to Ace "******" to worm him and to load him in the trailer. HE was the horse that threw me and broke my arm in 2004.
Happy ending for him. Her son took a shine to him and started big time trail riding with him. He was an unregistered gaited mix.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Corporal said:


> I had a gelding that was like that--big mess, afraid of like, E V E R Y T H I N G, including the trailer. Fortunately I bought him from a friend and she bought him back. Too many problems I NEVER had had to deal with. Crying out loud, when I bought "Corporal", (1982-2009, RIP), as a 4yo at the auction where I outbid the Meat Market by $5, he was the last horse bid on, and everyone was gone, and I had NO lead. He led into my stock trailer with a piece of baling twine! 180 degree difference between him and "******." He was also totally green when I first saddled him. Good attitude with all I trained him to do.
> In case anyone is reading this, I have used Ace powder before. IF you do, you must keep the horse calm for one hour, or else it won't work. I had to Ace "******" to worm him and to load him in the trailer. HE was the horse that threw me and broke my arm in 2004.
> Happy ending for him. Her son took a shine to him and started big time trail riding with him. He was an unregistered gaited mix.


 lucky Graces only major issue is when going into trailer. 
her new owner just text me and she is Doing Wonderful and loving all the attention.
she rolled in the mud and is eating hay like crazy


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

SO happy for you!! Even if you end up hating the horse, you really want them to bond with somebody else. =D


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Sounds like she got a good home & the owner for sure knows the trouble you had w/the trailer. Hope she can get her over it. But at least it's not your headache anymore!


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Cacowgirl said:


> Sounds like she got a good home & the owner for sure knows the trouble you had w/the trailer. Hope she can get her over it. But at least it's not your headache anymore!


 she has been texting me already today to tell me how happy she is with her. she deff knows all the trailering issues.She will be working alot with the trailering and is prepaired that she may not ever have a great loading horse.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Corporal said:


> SO happy for you!! Even if you end up hating the horse, you really want them to bond with somebody else. =D


I actually don't hate her I did hat the trailer thing but I felt bad that she was trained so roughly in the beginng and it made her the way she is. 

I am glad she is gone though


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hands Critter a large glass of whatever she fancies,









you deserve it.


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

I didn't go through all 11 pages. 

I am glad the new owner loves her and understanding with her loading issues!

While loading into a tiny 2 horse, a friends horse would get half in/half out and then come blasting back out with any pressure. She walked him up again and i started tapping the back legs and he stepped on up. I guess the tapping kept the backs legs active and it was drama free! 

If that wasn't tried, it is definite worth an attempt with the new owner.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Hands Critter a large glass of whatever she fancies,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you GH I still have not had that Glass yet LOL I did take the kiddo for supper and Icecream though.. I need to have that drink and relax a little


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

aldebono said:


> I didn't go through all 11 pages.
> 
> I am glad the new owner loves her and understanding with her loading issues!
> 
> ...


yes that tapping and others were tried.. I think her new Owner will do great with her and in the end the lariat and the pressure it gave worked best.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Critter sitter said:


> OK so I sold my mare. And we sold due to her trailering issues.
> we have tried for 3 days now to get her to load and have not gotten her in.
> 
> I am at my wits end here with her. I have had 2 trainers try I have tried and to no avail she is one that wil explode if you put to much pressure on her.
> ...


I once owned a horse who was known for NOT being able to load. He was a 16'3hh thoroughbred who just would not trailer. The way I deal with something like this is dealing with the situation THAT DAY, and not dwell on what might be causing the behavior(whether it be he/she won't load because of fear, previous accident/stubborness etc). If you try to load based on those fears, that will translate into YOUR behaviors while trying to load that given horse, which they sense.

This method of doing this, will require you to start off your mind on a blank slate, will require patience and will require time. If you're on a time crunch then don't this until you have the time to invest into this.

I did this once with him, and I never had issues again.

Put your horse on a lunge line, and open up the trailer ready for loading. Have a lunging whip with you. What you are going to be doing is giving your horse 2 options: 1) load onto the trailer or 2)work hard on the lunge line instead of loading into the trailer. My gelding had to learn that it was easier to load onto the trailer(have feed ready to go with it), than to work hard.

Ask her/him to load onto the trailer the way you normally do, if the horse does NOT load, you instantly ask for a brisk trot on the lunge line and by brisk I mean a GOOD strong working trot(no lazy slacking trot). I would do 4-5 good circles then stop her/him and ask to load into the trailer again. Repeat as needed until he/she loads.

It tooks me TWO HOURS the day I did this with my gelding, because he would not load. Once he loaded, I turned it into a party, pats! "good boy!" and lots of treats. Only once after that day did he hesitate to load, and all I did was one "lunging" circle on just the lead rope I had on, and he remembered! right on he loaded.

By the end of this, I had a horse who I had to simply verbally ask "walk on" with no aids at all, and he would walk himself onto the trailer. I never got mad at him, never got frustrated, I just gave HIM the options of what he wanted to do. He realized the trailering one was a great one.

Good luck.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

edited to say We did this with her just the way you are and it does not work with her Just stresses her out and she becomes hostile the first loading went like this and it took 8 1/2 hours. this last one took 5 days and my Amazing daughter whom I have so much respect finally loaded her alone with a lariat butt loop and lead..


My2Geldings said:


> I once owned a horse who was known for NOT being able to load. He was a 16'3hh thoroughbred who just would not trailer. The way I deal with something like this is dealing with the situation THAT DAY, and not dwell on what might be causing the behavior(whether it be he/she won't load because of fear, previous accident/stubborness etc). If you try to load based on those fears, that will translate into YOUR behaviors while trying to load that given horse, which they sense.
> 
> This method of doing this, will require you to start off your mind on a blank slate, will require patience and will require time. If you're on a time crunch then don't this until you have the time to invest into this.
> 
> ...


thank you for the info 

as you may have seen at the end she was loaded.... Great info though


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Critter sitter said:


> edited to say We did this with her just the way you are and it does not work with her Just stresses her out and she becomes hostile the first loading went like this and it took 8 1/2 hours. this last one took 5 days and my Amazing daughter whom I have so much respect finally loaded her alone with a lariat butt loop and lead..
> thank you for the info
> 
> as you may have seen at the end she was loaded.... Great info though


LOL, didn't work with Ben either, he just got stressed and hostile, the lariat butt rope, that is my go to from now on:wink:


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> LOL, didn't work with Ben either, he just got stressed and hostile, the lariat butt rope, that is my go to from now on:wink:


I'll send Bre to help :wink:


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