# New to the Western World - Tack?



## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I am an English rider by specialty and while I will never give that up, I just bought my first western saddle, a crossover aussie stock saddle with a horn for trail riding (sorry if this thread is in the wrong place).

Needless to say I have a lot of questions. I know absolutely nothing about western tack/riding/etc and neither do my riding buddies, so there's no one at my barn to help me. 

I had to youtube how to add a cinch to a saddle. Does the latigo come with the saddle? What is the difference between billets and a latigo?

Saddle pads - why are they so expensive compared to english pads? What is the reason for their thickness? Why are there so many more orthopedic type of pads in the western shopping section as compared to english - or is this just my perception?

Bridles and bits - why no noseband? Why is the throat latch detachable? What are slobber straps for? Why is the western D shaped differently from the English D ring? What is the reason for the different bit thicknesses?

Reins - I ride dressage so riding in contact is very important. Is it worth to teach my horse to neck rein for the trails? Will she get confused? Will I be able to ride her in loose contact and with one hand on the trails without her losing her english/dressage training?

Leg cues - can I use my english cues? Does adding leg in a western saddle with fenders get you the same result as english?

Most importantly - will my horse be able to be a "jack of all trades" if we ride western style for trails and english for competition? Is multiple disciplines disastrous or will this be healthy for her?

I am so sorry if I sound ignorant - I am. I really want to learn, I hope there are those out there who will help me.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

I'm just gonna answer a couple questions in your post... sorry about not answering all of them but I'm in a bit of a hurry.



thecolorcoal said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am an English rider by specialty and while I will never give that up, I just bought my first western saddle, a crossover aussie stock saddle with a horn for trail riding (sorry if this thread is in the wrong place).
> 
> ...


Good luck and have fun!!


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## SketchyHorse (May 14, 2012)

There's not much different about it honestly... It's just another saddle.

Whether your latigo/cinch straps/whatever they're called come with the saddle depends on your seller. I recently bought a barrel saddle that only had the offside/short latigo (not gonna lie I just honestly call them billets lol). You can buy these separate if your saddle doesn't come with them. 1 short, 1 long.

They make cheap western saddle pads too. I'm not sure if the saddle type you got will necessarily need a thicker western pad. That you'll have to access based on fit. You might need a super thin liner style, you might need something thicker. 

I can't really answer your next questions as I honestly have no idea... It's not really anything I've ever thought/worried about. I'm sure more western savvy people can answer some of that. Slobber straps have a couple different uses. Again I'll let someone who can explain better chime in...

No. It doesn't matter if your horse can neck rein because you're using a western saddle. Neither of mine are super great at neck reining but we use a western saddle on trails. If you're not looking to show I wouldn't worry about it... honestly I'd ride her in the bridle you always do. Yes, you can still give her leg cues even with the fenders. You'll typically have space between the "swell" of the fender & your heel.

I wouldn't necessarily consider her a jack of all trades because she can wander down trails in a western saddle. You won't be doing her any damage either - she might not even really notice. My gelding doesn't ride any different between his dressage/cc/western/bareback etc saddles


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

_Does the latigo come with the saddle?_ 

The latigo ties the cinch to the saddle. They may or may not come with a saddle. I like nylon ones, but many strongly prefer leather.
_
Saddle pads - why are they so expensive compared to english pads?_ 

They do more. They provide the padding that is internal to an English saddle.

_Bridles and bits - why no noseband?_ 

More to the point...why do English riders use a noseband? What is it supposed to do? 

_Why is the throat latch detachable? _

Easy to replace without replacing the entire bridle. And a lot of bridles have no throat latch at all because they are used with curb bits. 








​ 
_What are slobber straps for? _

Don't like them myself, but the original idea was the horse could drink and only ruin an easily replaced piece of leather rather than the entire rein. If you have expensive reins, then I can easily see their value. My reins are cheap, so not a big deal for me.

_Why is the western D shaped differently from the English D ring? What is the reason for the different bit thicknesses?_

Never noticed a difference.

_Reins - I ride dressage so riding in contact is very important. Is it worth to teach my horse to neck rein for the trails?_ 

Yes. The main difference between English and Western isn't the saddle shape, but the approach to using reins and bits. Traditional western riding expects horses to use less contact with training. AQHA rules IIRC require a mature horse to show in a curb bit.

_Will she get confused? _

Not likely.

_Will I be able to ride her in loose contact and with one hand on the trails without her losing her english/dressage training?_

Yes.

_Leg cues - can I use my english cues? _

Cues are cues. If your horse understands the cue, it understand the cue. No magic. Just a signal to do something, and it all depends on training.

https://www.youtube.com/user/ltrocha/videos

Don't agree with him all the time, but he strikes me as an uncommonly honest trainer. Emphasis is reining and cutting.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

thank you both blue and sketchy! And thank you bsms as well! Actuall @bsms you've inspired me the most to try trail riding, reading your stories about Mia and Bandit and the rest of your gang, so thank you. This is incredibly helpful, I really appreciate the advice and insight. English riders (specifically and especially my disciplines and skill levels) tend to snub western riding so I'm trying to get through the misunderstandings and misconceptions to find the truth of the matter, if you will.

Regarding nosebands, that made me think. They are said to "keep the mouth closed" but i've never done mine up tight enough for them to be effective in that manner. I've always just considered them a part of the tack. But I am thinking, with a curb, no noseband means easier bit evasion with a curb? is that counterproductive or necessary to balance out the strength of a curb bit?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Curb bits, at least in traditional western use, are not strong bits. They are "signal" bits. They should be adjusted so they can rotate freely for about 45-60 degrees before the curb strap tightens. This period of rotation provides a very consistent and obvious cue for the horse, "signalling" what the rider wants before pressure is applied to the mouth. My horses don't know what a noseband is, but they almost never open their mouths.

I joke that the primary purpose of the bit in western riding is to hold the far end of the reins up. It isn't entirely a joke. A good goal to try for western is to ride such that one never needs to take all the slack out of the reins. Doesn't happen that way, but it is entirely possible to come close while trail riding.

At the same time, though, almost every western horse started riding with contact. They know what it means, but don't expect the bit to be used often. I also would expect most English trained horses to be comfortable riding with slack in the reins.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I trail ride in an english saddle. I use an english-type bridle too (snaffle). I took the noseband off because I didn't see the point of it. I'm never going to tie my horse's mouth shut, sorry. Like many trail riders, I have a thin rope halter under my bridle and snaps on my (english buckle) reins so I can make a temporary lead rope out of them when I wish. Like bsms, I rarely even pick up my reins out on a trail. Unlike him, I do (baby) dressage in an arena, with contact. It does not confuse my horse. 

Really, a lot of tack is mere affectation and/or tradition. Some of it is associated with a very specific discipline or sport or style of training (weighted reins, in western, for example)

If you intend to show in a discipline, by all means get the costume. If you are just trail riding, ride in what you already have. I recommend a visor on your helmet, it's sunny out there, and adding some d-rings and strings to your saddle to tie stuff to. You sure don't need to tack up like a cowboy to hit the trails, especially if you don't have any idea whether you like trail riding or not. You're not punching cattle, you're just going for a ride.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Oh many @thecolorcoal I'm having a western lesson in a few weeks. I look forward to seeing your own progress as it's something I'm interested in learning myself. I can't say I see Katie learning western (or could she?). I do know I'd get some funny looks on her hahaha!


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks Avna. I got the saddle because they tend to be more secure than english saddles. Trail riding is a skill we must master. I board in horse country so everything is a trail's access away. It's all connected, you don't even need to trailer because all the facilities are connected by trail routes, so it's really important that we can do this. She is green on trails, has been in trail training since November with a pro 2 days a week and I just started riding her along with pro last week. 

Plus, the excuse to buy new things runs strong! Western tack is so fancy!

Thanks Kal! I'm excited to learn something new!


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Forgive me because I'm actually more ignorant than you when it comes to Western as I am drowning in England weather and style lol! xD... but when you mean trail riding is a skill what is it you mean? I ask only because here trail riding is called hacking. And obviously we don't get to change saddle (unless it's raining to avoid ruining leather!) nor bridle. We do add a breastplate to help keep the saddle from going anywhere and neck strap with a hogged horse just in case. Hacking can be a whole day affair with a pub lunch in-between (I've not hacked Katie, I just mean my usual place). Usually once we get the first excited canter out the way we will ride them on a loose rein (talking the buckle) and only gather contact if it's on a road, busy bridle path or before picking up a trot. I love trotting on a loose rein but the horses aren't actually used to that, not that I think they can't learn. I guess what I'm trying to ask is what makes trail riding Western style so different as to be a skill in itself that can not be accomplished in English gear? I ask, just because I've not ever ridden Western in my life! If it's a preference thing I totally get it because I WANT to do both. Is there something I'm missing? I'm gonna say that I imagine a Western saddle more secure if you're really trekking some wild, rocky territory? I think this is an amazing to learn!


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

Yes, hacking in the US can mean trail riding but it can also mean arena work outside of lessons. But almost always it is trail riding.


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

@Kalraii, hacking in your neck of the woods = trail riding :wink:
And no, different tack is not necessary, but I can see that either a western or aussie saddle may make you feel more secure.

Your description of a hack (including pub lunch) reminds me of some trail rides in Switzerland - fond memories :biggrin:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I'll try to answer what I can, some stuff is preference. 




thecolorcoal said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am an English rider by specialty and while I will never give that up, I just bought my first western saddle, a crossover aussie stock saddle with a horn for trail riding (sorry if this thread is in the wrong place).
> 
> ...


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Western saddles are better for tying things to or hanging things off of, and in my opinion, for ordinary trail riding that is their only advantage. If you are not dealing with cows, or heading up into the mountains for a week, with all the gear that requires, there is no big fat reason to change saddles. A western saddle may give you a feeling of security but it's unwarranted -- if a horse wants to part ways with you, your saddle type is going to be little protection. What's going to help you is a solid seat and trained reflexes. Just like arena riding (where I have fallen off more than on the trail). 

I too am surprised that a horse needs "trail training" by a pro. In my world, you just ride your horse where you want to go, end of story. If your horse has trouble with some part of the trail, well, there's where you take the time to work on that. You are way over-complicating this.

Now, if you just want an excuse to buy more horse stuff ... I'm totally with you! Pictures!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

thecolorcoal said:


> Why is the throat latch detachable? What are slobber straps for? Why is the western D shaped differently from the English D ring? What is the reason for the different bit thicknesses?


I got all involved in the noseband part and forgot to answer the rest of your question. 

A lot of Western bridles don't have a throat latch, it's not considered necessary. The original use of a throatlatch was to keep the bridle from slipping off, but I haven't seen anyone ride with a throatlatch tight enough to do that in years. 

Slobber straps are as someone else said, cheap bits of leather that can be easily replaced when ruined by the horse drinking water. A lot of reins don't have them anymore. 

English vs Western D ring snaffles: 
The western version is not as
rounded and most of the time is
smaller than the English D ring.
The goal is to be a bit faster than the
English version. The rein will reach
the point of locking faster, engaging the
full potential of the mouthpiece. D Rings
are faster than loose rings. 

Here's the link to the full article. I found it well written and easy to understand. http://www.trigomanuel.com/assets/documents/A%20Bit%20of%20clarification%20about%20Rings.pdf


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Western saddle for being more secure is false idea, if horse wants to lose you they can and will. As far as training horse for trail no pro required just ride horse out on trail. My 13 year old rides my 5 year old gelding out on trails who can be spooky she handles it just fine. He does a 180 on her and she never gets unseated. We ride bareback a lot no depending on stirrups or saddle horn,even ride horses in halter and lead ropes because they are that trained,they require no bit.

From reading your post you make things way more complicated than they need to be. Trail riding is not complicated just keep riding horse out every day. Wet saddle blankets and miles make a trail horse not the tack you use. No pro trained our horses to go trail riding my kids and i did.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

The off billet is how the cinch attaches to the off side. 
The Latigo is how you tighten your cinch on the left side of the horse. Usually, both off billets and latigos come with the saddle. 

I don’t know — I’ve seen plenty of expensive English pads (particularly the ThinLine brand). But think about it : there is a lot more material on a western pad compared to a “skimpy” English one. And there are plenty of orthopedic pads in English too but I think they use other terms than “orthopedic “.

Western pads have to be thicker because you need a cushion for the horse under the wood tree that most western saddles are going to have. 

In English, the function of the pad is to keep the saddle clean. You technically don’t need a pad to ride with an English saddle. With Western, you NEED a pad. 

For western, if your saddle fits well, you usually only need 1/2” to 3/4” thickness. 


There is no Noseband in Western because you have a curb strap instead. 

There are different but thicknesses in both disciplines. It really has nothing to do with English vs western. 

A well trained English horse also knows how to neck rein. So I encourage you to teach your horse that. 

Horses know the difference with cross training. Your cues are different. There are plenty of horses that can be ridden both ways and they know what is expected of them. 

But you certainly can ride with contact in western if you want. Unless you are showing, there are no rules for trail riding. 


Your legs cues are the same. They will feel a little different in the different saddles but cue your horse the same. 


While I primarily run barrels, my horses also do very well in showmanship, reining, horsemanship, trail, and other events including English. They are not confused !!


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I don't want to repeat what others have said. But I will say that I used to primarily ride english. I started trail riding more and have moved more to western. So I trail ride in my western saddle, but use my english bridle. My horse does not know how to neck rein, but I do ride him on a very loose rein when we trail ride. Typically when we go out for a trail ride it is 3-5 hours, so we ride as relaxed as we can. 

I use the same cues on trail as I would riding english or any other time. It doesn't matter what saddle you have on; the horse should still respond to your leg/seat aids. 

I am actually on the hunt for a new western pad myself - sad to say that the one I want is over $300. So yes, on average I believe Western pads are more expensive than english (although I'm sure you could spend a ton of cash on a certain brand of english pad). Western pads need to provide more cushioning as the saddle is much heavier than english. In my own mind, I think the pads need this extra material as well b/c some people ride in their western saddles for hours on end (especially working horses). 

Enjoy yourself on the trail - the whole idea is to have fun with your horse. If you aren't showing it doesn't really matter what your horse (or you) are wearing. As long as you are both comfortable.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My Australian saddle:








​ 
When my horse would spin violently, the poleys would slam into my thighs, forcing my hips to stay aligned with the horse. I eventually got to where I didn't touch the poleys even when she spun, but they saved my butt many times while learning to ride by riding a spooky horse.

My western saddle:








​ 
Long since removed the bucking rolls, which I found useless. But that polished leather is slicker than snot on a doorknob, and it does you no favors if your horse hits the fan.

If someone has a lot of experience in one saddle type, THAT saddle will be the most secure - for them. And not all western saddles are built for security (although I've never seen an Australian one that was not). But if you've never experienced the bolts and spinning and bucking that can happen on a paved road or in a rocky wash our surrounded by cactus (or timber, depending on where you live)...then some saddles ARE better for keeping a newer rider on the horse.

I typically ride now with a sheepskin cover. Not for the cushioning, but for the security. I just don't slide as easily across my "slick seat" saddle when I have "butt velcro" on it.








​ 
I've ordered a 16" version of our 15" Abetta saddle, in part because the coarse material makes it so much easier to stick on when things start to go wrong. I like the 15", but it is a little small for me and is often doing duty carrying my DIL.

Australian saddles come in two types: English and Western. Mine was based on an English saddle tree and felt identical to my butt with my Bates Caprilli AP saddle. The western ones, built on a western saddle tree, have become very popular:








​ 
I've ridden one once, and it felt very western to me. Much more so than the Aussie saddle I own. The western style Aussie saddles are often called crossover saddles, or crossbreed saddles. I've considered getting one, but I like our 15" Abetta enough that I want to try it in a larger seat. If it doesn't work out for me, I may try a crossbreed Aussie saddle.

Saddles are kind of like bits. Some just "click" for a given rider and horse. I like English saddles but sold mine because my Aussie "clicked" for me. My wife and daughter refuse to mount up with an Aussie saddle. They hate it. Nothing wrong with experimenting and finding a combination that matches your 'spirit', so to speak - how it feels to you, to your horse, and to what you are doing that day. And if someone someday offers me a chance to trail ride in a dressage saddle, I'll take them up in a heartbeat!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

beau159 said:


> <snip>
> There is no Noseband in Western because you have a curb strap instead. </snip>


Actually the curb strap has a completely different function than a noseband. It is not a replacement in any way. English curbs have chin straps or chains just like western ones. If you are not going to crank your horse's mouth closed, I do not know of any function to an English noseband except looks. There's plenty of Western gear which would come under that category as well. 

On the trail, neck reining aside (which is optional but can be handy), the cues are going to be the same western or english. No retraining needed. 

The main difference in trail riding and arena riding is that, in arena riding of any kind, you have 100% of the ideas. On the trail, your horse and you decide together how to interact with the third party, the trail itself. You normally are in charge of direction and speed, but even that is much more of a two-way conversation. There have been times when I've lost my way and it's been my horse who told me where the trailer was parked.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

@SwissMiss my partner IS Swiss haha and it's very likely I'll be moving there to have kids at the rate of the UK! Any trails you recommend (and sorry for hijacking!)


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Kalraii said:


> @*SwissMiss* my partner IS Swiss haha and it's very likely I'll be moving there to have kids at the rate of the UK! Any trails you recommend (and sorry for hijacking!)



Small world :biggrin: I can put feelers out when you decide to head in that direction. Still have horse-friends in Switzerland than can help as well. pm me, so we don't hijack this thread :wink:


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Avna said:


> Actually the curb strap has a completely different function than a noseband. It is not a replacement in any way. English curbs have chin straps or chains just like western ones. If you are not going to crank your horse's mouth closed, I do not know of any function to an English noseband except looks. There's plenty of Western gear which would come under that category as well.
> 
> .


To maybe expand on my answer, I was focusing mostly on comparing the use of a snaffle bit with a noseband (English) vs curb strap (western). Since the noseband keeps the horse’s mouth shut when tight, it keeps the snaffle from potentially being pulled through the horse’s mouth. Same how a curb strap would keep a snaffle from being pulled through the mouth. (Of course with a snaffle, the curb strap is not functioning to provide any leverage like it does with a curb bit).

With that said, I’m not a fan of nosebands in English. If you need a contraption to hold your horse’s mouth shut, I think you’ve got bigger issues. 
Also, you should never be pulling on your horse so hard to actually pull the snaffle through their mouth, unless in some sort of emergency situation. 


Anywho.... whether that explains my answer any further or just confuses it more. ;-)


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I disagree that Western saddles are about the same in "holding you in" as English saddles. I have a "bear trap" Western barrel saddle and a horse that spooks really big. Although I actually prefer riding English and rode English for a thousand years before I started riding Western, so far I have never come off my horse's big spooks when riding in the bear trap barrel saddle. I've come off 9 times (from that horse) riding in other saddles.

A barrel saddle is really designed to "hold you in" when the horse is running at speed turning the barrels. I do think a Western saddle is much more secure when a horse is spooking big, spinning, and turning fast.

I think if your horse is spooky or jumpy, you are safer in a Western saddle.

When my 13 year old daughter's filly started rearing and bucking, I bought a bear trap saddle for her as well. One day she was riding in a FreeMax English saddle and came right off the back when her filly suddenly bounded forward. I think she would have stayed with the horse in a Western saddle.

Also, I think neck reining is a grand skill to teach any horse. There are times on the trail where you need to open a gate, grab something off the picnic table or trailer fender, hold or even pony someone's horse, and a hundred other instances where neck reining comes in SO handy. I teach all my horses to neck rein. You never know when you'll be glad your horse moves over nicely at the touch of a rein on the neck.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

beau159 said:


> To maybe expand on my answer, I was focusing mostly on comparing the use of a snaffle bit with a noseband (English) vs curb strap (western). Since the noseband keeps the horse’s mouth shut when tight, it keeps the snaffle from potentially being pulled through the horse’s mouth. Same how a curb strap would keep a snaffle from being pulled through the mouth. (Of course with a snaffle, the curb strap is not functioning to provide any leverage like it does with a curb bit).
> 
> With that said, I’m not a fan of nosebands in English. If you need a contraption to hold your horse’s mouth shut, I think you’ve got bigger issues.
> Also, you should never be pulling on your horse so hard to actually pull the snaffle through their mouth, unless in some sort of emergency situation.
> ...


Oh, I get what you're saying now. But the noseband used with an English snaffle does not keep the snaffle from being pulled through the mouth. That would be prevented with extra large rings, rubber discs, or as you say, a chin strap. 

I was taught to make sure I could get two fingers between an english noseband and the horse. This was decades before it became so fashionable to put every horse into a figure eight or crank or whatever. 

When my horse was first bridled, she would manage to get the snaffle ring into her mouth, playing with it, and I used a chin strap to keep that from happening. Doesn't need it any more.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Some of those dressage saddles really hold you tight too, though. And I've certainly used western saddles that were so smooth I slid around like bead of water in a hot skillet.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^^ My slick seat makes me feel like a tin can in the back of a pickup truck! 

The 16" Abetta arrived today, and the rough nylon felt wonderfully sticky when my neighbor decided to cut a metal pipe with a power saw...

;>)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't think it's so strange for the OP to have her horse in trail training. Not at all. IIRC, her horse is not used to being ridden out of doors, and perhaps the OP herself isn't used to it either. So, having a trainer help the horse with some of that isn't so strange or laughable. 

I've seen horses that are great in the arena go all goggle eyed and hair brained when they get out in the wide blue wonder.


As many people said, the cues are pretty much the same. in a western saddle, your leg might be off the side of the horse more than in a jump or dressage saddle. That's one reason why western spurs are usually much longer; there's farther to reach.

Any bridle will work. whatever your horse is accostomed to. Slobber straps are pretty much only used on thick rope or hair reins (those hair reins are very expensive). They do protect the rein from water, but, they also have another effect; they give additional weight to the rein. Just as a finished bridle horse uses chain to attach the rein to the bit shank, the slobber strap's weight gives a pre-cue when the rein is lifted. The horse can feel it sliding along the bit ring, and as it changes it's position, has a more noticeable feel to the horse, as opposed to just picking up a typical English rein. Thus, you can connect with your horse, mentally, before there is any real strong contact.

A lot of English riders dislike the feel of rope reins. I have become used to them but it takes some time. I , personally, cannot stand the feel of rubber reins and they way they communicate with the horse. But, if you are riding a hrose that pulls, pulls, pulls you will want rubber reins ( along with some work on that pulling)


A good western pad is where you don't scrimp. there are lots of cheapies out there, but WOOL is your best friend, IMO. Figure to spend at the least $80, rock bottom. I think you'll probably have to spend more. Ask how much wool is in the pad, because some blends don't have much actual wool in it. and virgin wool is better and much more expensive. But, they last a LONG time.

I dislike corudura fenders becasue they do not hang down well. To me, it's the same issue as having English irons made out of composite; when your foot comes UP, the stirrup (fender) should stay down. In cordura (the nylon fabric) the fender will often bunch up under your calf. in the composite irons, the danger is that they will stay with your foot, rahter than fall freely down when you go UP (and off).

Stirrups that are plastic, in cheap western saddles, are not as safe, nor as comfy as the leather covered ones, or the metal ones (very spendy)

learn the trick of swinging up a western saddle for tacking up, otherwise you'll slip a disk trying to lift that thing up there.

That's all I can think of now.

oh, I just remembered . . . . . Horses that are lazy in the arena will often perk up and become more forward. Not so much that they are scared , because this is true for old seasoned horses, too. But rather that the trail has a way of drawing them forward. When they walk on a long, narrow thing, maybe with bushes on each side, it has the visual effect of drawing them forward, in the similar way as to following a hrose in front of them. The draw of the trail itself will get them excited to see what is ahead, and they will often be very eagar to move out. take them into the arena, and they see no purpose or reason for going around and around.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks Tiny! Such good answers!

Yes, the trail is a completely different animal. I don't live in a very rural area - it's pretty horsey but it's mostly english riding and western riding is almost exclusively trail (where I am), so the idea that you can turn an arena horse into a trail horse without special training is definitely not a common belief here! xD but it has been done (my BO's horse went from eventing to pure trail). She's not spooky on the trail but like Tiny said, she does get "up," and I'm so used to her submissiveness in the arena that her alertness and independence on the trail has ME spooked sometimes! 

She's very good in arena riding, but like Tiny said isn't nearly as forward. Not so much because she is bored or dull but because we take our training extremely seriously and she knows the arena means I wield all the power (in a nice way). On the trails she gets much more of a say, I do rely on her to make some decisions specifically about where to place her feet in difficult footing and if there's a better path, she takes the initiative to take me there. I am only human and I am sure, as a horse, she has more sense about nature than me.

But the biggest training difficulty, which I might post about in another thread, is that in a group she becomes extremely herd bound. In the arena we have a 60/40 relationship if I needed to add numbers to it, but on the trail she becomes more emboldened. She definitely has a strong sense of self-preservation and isn't confident in herself yet, and so she seeks the guidance of the herd we ride with. I haven't gone out by myself yet because I don't have confidence on the trail, and because she needs a leader and I can't be one, she quite literally will leave me in the dust if things go sideways. That's why I have someone ride her on the trails for me, so she can learn to seek the comfort and reassurance of her rider (my trainer is way more experienced with opinionated tb's and is giving her the emotionless ride she needs). I get too into my own head and start to dwell on the bad, so we are taking trail riding step by step, going out a few more feet every ride so that I can feel comfortable.

The ultimate goal for me is to be able to have my horse traveling reliably on the trail to get from place to place. Leisure riding is fun but we have over 100 trails that go through the area and they all connect you to different parts of town, so having a mode of transportation (horse) would be great when we decide to trail ride to shows or to the local training grounds for our hunter and dressage shows. 

Plus I've always sort of turned away from western thinking it was only for ranch work but i've always admired how decorated and beautiful the tack is! This gives me an excuse to buy the lovely things! xD


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