# Laying Down With Ropes



## BuckskinLover (May 12, 2015)

I was wondering what y'all's opinion of laying down a horse with ropes? I mean not forcing them down but doing it slowing, until they know what you are asking? 

Lot's of people say its SOOO abusive and lots disagree. 

I really want to lay my mare down, but since people say its abusive, it makes me wonder. Well some people think that spurs and bits and crops are abusive. I mean people, its a 1200 pound animal, don't you think its going to be hard to seriously injure them?

Anyway, I would love your help on this issue!

Thanks in advance!!


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Just curious, why do you want to do it with your horse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

ditto to above.
There is only one reason, JMO, to lay a horse down, and that is because you can't get through to that horse any other way, and it is the meat wagon, or throwing that horse
There is absolutely no comparison to using bits or spurs correctly
Throwing a horse, does a profound mental change to an animal that is by nature a prey species, by taking away his ability to flee, and is a form of absolute domination, that most of our well bred horse s today, do not require .
It is thus, not part of any good training program , in my opinion.
If your horse requires being thrown, perhaps re consider as to why you wish to keep such a horse


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

BuckskinLover said:


> I was wondering what y'all's opinion of laying down a horse with ropes? I mean not forcing them down but doing it slowing, until they know what you are asking?
> 
> Lot's of people say its SOOO abusive and lots disagree.
> 
> ...



This..."its a 1200 pound animal, don't you think its going to be hard to seriously injure them?".

That makes me think you don't have much experience with horses at all.

Horses are very easy to injure, they injure themselves all the time, even kill themselves.

I've known horses to rear up and slip and fall over backwards, breaking their necks in a stall. Known them to rear up and when come down, hit a 1x12 board around bottom of stall and break a foreleg.

Known them to fall while running around in a paddock and take 10K or more to have it diagnosed, not to mention to haul to TX from MN to get it treated after diagnosing, mare still may not be quite right, for all I know.

We had a mare that prior owner decided to "teach her to hard tie" so he tied her off and she pulled and fought so hard she crippled herself permanently. Mare was fine to stand there all day if all you did was loop rope around post and not tie. Ruined a nice registered young mare.

Horses fall wrong, step wrong, move wrong, you name it, they can and will do it.

Old saying in TB's is "Thoroughbreds wake up in the morning, looking to commit suicide by nightfall" and pretty well holds true.


As for laying a horse down?

No reason for it, save the extremely rare horse who is on the short track to a slaughter pen due to behavior way past what is normal.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Do you mean "teaching my horse to lay down"?

or "laying down".

Laying down basically means forcing the horse to lay down as submission. The horse is tied down and not allowed to rise as for a set period of time. Often the person will stay there and sometimes sit on the horse to reinforce the submission and helplessness. This DOES have use as a training technique but is only ever used in EXTREME situations. Doing so in anything else and doing this improperly which is VERY easy to do (or getting carried away with emotion and leaving the horse there for hours, beating, etc which DOES happen) is obviously abusive.

Now if you want to do it as a trick and are not forcing the horse do it and allow the horse to get up as it chooses etc that is different. However, I wouldn't recommend doing it until you know how. I also think many (most) horses are just not comfortable with this and it's not something I would push. Respect works both ways. My Arab is SUPER people oriented trusting and friendly but if I walk over when he is down he will get up, sometimes he will wait then get up and always hangs out for pets, so it's not like he's traumatized.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree with Palomine that it doesn't sound like you are ready for this even if it's just as a trick which I wouldn't consider abusive. Horses are amazingly tough and amazingly fragile at the same time and when you involved with ropes and stuff you're just asking for trouble.

I read a horror story on here actually (by Smilie) a few days ago about a mare that was permanently crippled when some idiot trainer tried this.


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## BuckskinLover (May 12, 2015)

Okay guys. I do have experience with horses... I said its hard to hurt a 1200 animal, I meant with a crop or spurs if you use them right. 

Check out this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5jzNHCUmq4 I don't know about you but this horse doesn't look abused.

What is the actual harm? 

I want to do it as a trick. Slowly, not forcefully.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

There could be a lot of harm and a lot of damage if you don't know what you're doing.

If you really want to do it and solely as a trick make sure your horse has the right personality for it and work with a trainer experienced in trick training/teaching the horse to lie down.


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

If u want to do it as a trick,why not teach it with a cue? Take advantage of her natural inclination to lay down when she is sweaty or wet from being hosed down (even easier if u can take her to a sandy area) and time it with a cue then praise or treat her and at some point you will have her trained to lay down on cue. It will take longer but it will circumvent the need to use ropes and tie a leg up. I know people who can cue for a lay down, go sit on the horse , then cue for it g get up with on it. The cue can be verbal or a handsignal or both. 

Fay


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

If you want to do it as a trick, there is a super easy way to teach a horse to lay down.

Go for a nice ride, get the horse sweaty, rinse the horse off and wait for her to roll. As soon as she lies down, make a fuss, run over and give her treats. 

You want to interrupt her from rolling, just don't get kicked in the process!

This works really well. I tried it for two sessions and my mare would lay down about three times in a row and look for treats. 

If I ever get around to practicing some more I was thinking of adding a command signal, such as a tap over the withers. I just have not had time to practice!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Well said, there are better safer and happier ways to do the same thing.

This isn't something I would force.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Size doesn't indicate how much things will hurt. A dog will feel pain much like a horse will, as will a human. 

Spurs used correctly aren't abusive, but they're used for refinement, not a stronger aid. Crops are used to back up aids - I don't think they're particularly good. Both can cause extreme pain and damage if used incorrectly.

Its easy to look at YouTube videos and think things are a good idea. I imagine that girl has done a lot of work with her horse, getting him used to ropes etc. That could so easily have gone differently.


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

BuckskinLover said:


> Okay guys. I do have experience with horses... I said its hard to hurt a 1200 animal, I meant with a crop or spurs if you use them right
> 
> https://


 Both crops and spurs are training aids but used the wrong way can do mental damage, and when a horse is permanently scared by the improper use of spurs it does hurt.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

my fiance trained his gelding to lay down. he would put a rope around one foot and get the horse used to him picking it up and being able to take his leg away from him. once the horse could care less about it he put the lead rope under the front legs and would pull the horses head down. once the horse was fine with that he would start pulling the horses head and lifting his leg. took a few days of this (depending on the horse) for them to lay down. now the horse dose it without ropes. if the horse gets stuck in a fence he knows to stay down now. its also esier for my fiance to get on him bareback. a friend asked him to teach her gelding to lay down. this horse was a disrespectfull biter. well it took a few days to GENTLY teach him to lay down and a few days for it to stick. the horse dow dose it when asked and an uninteded sidefect is a more respectfull horse. 


Im against throwing a horse forcfully on the grownd. you can teach a horse to lay down, you can teach them to bow and to rear without hurting them or abuseing them.


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

Honestly, it is not a training technique I would use or even recommend doing. A horse is a prey animal and it uses it's legs to get away from prey and ask questions later. Forcing a prey animal into forced helplessness is not a good thing mentally for a horse, some horses this could completely break them mentally and that could end up being a more dangerous situation then what ever situation you are dealing with now.

I have found that there are a 100 better ways to earn trust and respect then breaking them mentally. I never ever want a horse that is taught helplessness, I want a thinking partner who can trust me and I them and that only comes from spending time together and lots of wet saddle pads.

I would ask the question "Why am I doing this, and will my horse be better for it, or would it destroy their trust in me?"


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