# Can horses be protective of their owner?



## Duren (Oct 25, 2011)

I have a 4yo mare that is at the very bottom of any herd shes ever been with. Even the extremely passive 3yo gelding pushes her around.

With that being said, she can be quite aggressive towards other horses when we are riding. It started out with mostly pinned ears which I always wrote off as "typical mare" but the other day she actually charged another horse and rider with teeth bared. We had been standing around in a sort of circle just talking and the other horse (from what I remember) just took a step forward and my horse went after him. I was so embarrassed. She didnt make contact but I must have apologized at least 20 times.

So I was wondering, why on earth would my bottom of the pecking order mare who would **** near let a foal run her off her food, charge after another horse? The only theories I can come up with was that she was being protective of her rider, OR she was "braver" _because _of her rider. I dont know...

Thoughts?


And shes totally cute, so heres a picture


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

It'll be interesting to see the answers. I will say that that is a behavior you will need to control. It makes for a dangerous situation. Way back when I lived in Tx I woke up to horse in my backyard with a note on the fence. "She's been banned from every arena in this area and we can't keep her at the boarding barn anymore. She's yours since she let's you in her stall." The reason - that same behavior. The rider could not prevent or control the mare. On more than one occasion she body slammed or attacked by lunging and biting other horses and their riders. I interpreted her behavior as placing herself higher on the totem pole than the rider. It took a very confident, attentive rider that was equally aggressive toward her when the behavior started to bring her around. She had to have absolute respect in your authority and confidence that you were in charge before the behavior stopped. That said to answer the question of can a horse be protective of another being - yes. I've had a horse (different horse than above) go after someone that was coming at me wielding what she took to be a weapon (a hammer in a very threatening posture). A WHOA and NO from me and she did nothing more than knock this person over and stand over her but the results could have been much worse. It was an absolute surprise to me that she would act this way. This same animal destroyed a water trough when I went to move it and was stung by wasps that had set up home under the rim. My first scream had her coming from across the pasture and double barrel kicking the trough where the nest was located. SO much for Rubbermaid's lifetime warranty. They sent a rep but refused to replace it. In neither situation was I riding or handling her. She was simply in the pasture that I was working in. When I handle her I have never had her even offer to pin her ears at another person or animal.


----------



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

This can have two causes I think. Horses are more than capable of being protective, just think mare and foal, stallion defending his herd, etc.

So either the horse is genuinely protecting you, or that horse has dominance issues. I was once doing something on the ground (can't for the life of me remember what) while holding the lead rope of a mid herd, very reactive type mare. I didn't realize the main gait was open and the whole herd came barreling around the corner. That mare side stepped over me, so I was under her belly and stood her ground while the whole herd parted around her, protecting me. 

I have also seen lower herd type horses that are attempting to climb the herd "ladder" act agressively towards other horses when they think they have a chance of winning. Especially young horses testing boundaries.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

This behavior cannot be tolerated. I suggest that you school with a rider of the most dominant horse in the herd who is willing to help. Carry a Dressage whip, or get on of thoe $12.00 schooling whips to carry while riding. They are cheap enough to toss if you need to, on the ground.
When your mare pins her ears smack her on the flank and make her move away from the other horse. You will need to be stubborn and to lavish praise when she does it right.
Don't try to fix this in one hour, or in one day. You will need to carry that whip with you for the next month. She cannot be trusted until she stops this.
It can be dangerous riding your horse with other horses. They need to understand that all bickering takes place in turnout. Once the saddle is on YOU are their herd leader, and manners must be observed.
Even the crummy 14'0hh QH mare that I sold off quickly packed quite a whollop in her kick. Size makes little difference.


----------



## LadyLark09 (Jun 25, 2015)

I think I'm seeing it this way: When she's with you, she feels like she's being backed by you so she can take a jab at the other horses, but doesn't feel brave enough to out in the paddock. You're her scapegoat. I quite agree with Corporal on the stance that you need to nip this in the bud, and quickly before she decides you're just a figurehead on her mast and really causes trouble. Best of luck to you dearie.


----------



## Duren (Oct 25, 2011)

While I appreciate your reply, I wasnt looking for training advice. I think its pretty obvious that aggression isnt to be tolerated. My question was what would make a normally very submissive mare be aggressive under saddle.


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Great! Guess she doesn't do this anymore.


----------



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

I think braver because of her rider would really be the thing, but being protective of her rider may contribute as well. Being braver because of the rider seems more likely if it's a normally submissive horse that's at the bottom of the pecking order. It's not like horses WANT to let other horses run them off of their food and whatnot, but many simply don't challenge them. With you there on her she probably felt more confident challenging the other horses. 

I had similar problems with my horse, but he was super dominant with other horses. Always the top guy who bossed everyone around. I noticed that if someone was riding in the arena and I came in with my horse he was just fine. No ear pinning or ugly faces. If I was riding and someone else came in (particularly if I stopped to talk to the person) he would start that nonsense. Anytime he did it meant back to hard work NOW, but it always remained a thing. 

It only escalated beyond that once, and it was with a horse that my guy despised for some reason. I've never seen my horse show such a strong dislike for one horse in particular as he did with this one. I think the two contributing factors were that this lady would always tack her horse up using the tie ring directly across from my horse's stall (often while he was eating), and her horse would pin his ears right back at him. He also has sort of a misformed face, so his expressions can look sort of weird sometimes. Perhaps to my horse it looked like he was constantly getting the stink eye from that horse. Any other horse could be walked past him with no problem, but he did NOT like that horse being anywhere near him. 

One day I went riding in the back pasture with that lady/her horse, a friend of mine, and a few other people from the barn. My horse was absolutely fine with all of the other horses besides this one. He kept shooting him particularly dirty looks, and the lady was completely oblivious to this. She knew that my horse didn't like hers, but didn't seem to make the connection between that and taking safety precautions. So much so that at one point she had hung back a little and walked right up behind my horse. Even with horses that get along very well I always leave a reasonable space between them, and she just came right up my horse's butt. I had to tell her "My horse has never kicked under saddle, but he's really giving yours the evil eye today. Please don't ride right up behind us." Eventually I got tired of the constant problems because this lady wouldn't stay up at the front, so my friend and I rode off on our own. 

No problems until the very end of the ride. The rest of the group was finishing up at the same time as my friend and I, so I got off to get the gate for everyone. My horse was standing quietly as everyone walked out, and as the lady went through and I went to close the gate my horse whirled around and lunged at hers! The reins caught him so he didn't come close to making contact with the horse or rider, but my reaction certainly made him regret that experience :wink: I was absolutely mortified! 

I've also seen him get nervous/protective around one particular person in the past. It was the barn owner at my old barn- an old man who would make inappropriate comments towards lady boarders (minors included) who made me feel very uncomfortable. If I didn't know better the way my horse reacted to him would make me think he was mistreating him. However, he never interacted with the horses (there was a barn manager who took care of all the horse needs) and he was only around the barn/pasture areas when performing maintenance. Still, I heavily looked into that possibility. My horse was a pretty laid back guy, but got very nervous when the BO was around, particularly if I was riding. Normally I can stand there on him and carry on a conversation with someone and him just stand there quietly. Not with this guy. He's start nervously shuffling around, kind of jumping in place if he made any sudden movements, stuff like that. 

One ride we were having a grand time walking all through the woods by ourselves, and my boy was just walking around relaxed on a long rein. As we started to go out of the woods his head came up and he started acting jittery. I didn't see what the problem was until we got right where the woods opened up to the pasture and saw the BO out on his tractor picking up logs. Usually I avoided talking to the guy, but I wanted to ask if he would bring a couple of logs up front for us to jump. Horse got more nervous as we approached him. At one point during the conversation the BO said "He's got a mosquito right there" motioning to his chest and went to swat at it. People have done that to him probably a hundred times while I've been riding, but he decided that he was gonna have none of that, did a 180, and ran probably about 10 feet before I got him stopped. I decided to cut that conversation short. On another occasion my horse was tied in the arena while I was grooming him. Suddenly his head shot up, he set back, broke the tie ring, and hauled butt across the arena where he then stood neighing at me several times. I just stood there scratching my head until I turned around and saw the BO pushing a wheelbarrow with stall repairing tools in it. 

Perhaps I'm putting too much significance into it, but it's like the horse was trying to tell me to get out of there like he did. If the BO simply walked by his stall when I wasn't standing there he wouldn't give such a great reaction, but he would get spooky when the BO was around and I was. I think because the guy made me nervous and uncomfortable, so that fed off on him. The guy is a creep, so I do trust my horse when he wants to get away from him.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Duren said:


> While I appreciate your reply, I wasnt looking for training advice. I think its pretty obvious that aggression isnt to be tolerated. My question was what would make a normally very submissive mare be aggressive under saddle.



The horse does not have the rule that states they can't act aggressive towards other horses, when ever ridden, handled, or when a human is in that field with them, firmly and clearly implanted.

That is the bottom line, but you want a reason, based on her nature,and that can only be guessed at.
It is actually very common for a horse near the bottom of a herd order, to act the most aggressive towards a new horse, as they want to establish that they are above that new horse, and are thus acting on their general insecurity
She obviously thinks she can act towards other horses as she wishes, rider or no rider, and any other reason really does not matter.


----------



## kenda (Oct 10, 2008)

I tend to think that the unrestricted horse in the field would take off if challenged by another horse higher up then them. When being ridden, they feel more restricted, either actually through reins and fences, or mentally through the presence of their rider, so when the other horse seems to be challenging them, they feel backed into a corner and the only option they can see in the moment is to fight back.


----------



## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Duren said:


> I have a 4yo mare that is at the very bottom of any herd shes ever been with. Even the extremely passive 3yo gelding pushes her around.
> 
> With that being said, she can be quite aggressive towards other horses when we are riding. It started out with mostly pinned ears which I always wrote off as "typical mare" but the other day she actually charged another horse and rider with teeth bared. We had been standing around in a sort of circle just talking and the other horse (from what I remember) just took a step forward and my horse went after him. I was so embarrassed. She didnt make contact but I must have apologized at least 20 times.
> 
> ...



She's not being protective of you, and this does need training advice, if you think that is what is going on.

She thinks with the other horses under saddle, she can behave aggressively, and the fact that it has gone to the point of her going at them with teeth bared, isn't good. Even the times she has pinned ears and you didn't correct her for that, you are telling her to act like this.

Part of it may be tied to her position as bottom of pecking order, as it is those horses that will fight the hardest when new horses enter the herd, as they don't want another boss. But that is neither here nor there in this situation, as these horses are presumably under rider's control, and all of this is verboten.

She knows that those horses aren't going to come after her for this attitude, due to being under human control, problem is when you are near another rider who can't control their horse, and it wheels and kicks out, breaking your leg, or possibly rearranging your face for you if you come off . If it doesn't kill you first.

This is handler error on your part, you aren't running the show, and you aren't paying good enough attention to your horse, if you are missing the cues that she is thinking about this.

There is no excuse for her doing this period, much less more than once. And when she did it the first time, you should have corrected her strongly, and given her something to think about.

But the main thing is you aren't paying attention to your horse.

Would imagine if the more experienced members here could see you with this horse in person, there would be several things that are not being done correctly by you, in regards to handling her.


----------



## Duren (Oct 25, 2011)

I love how people assume I didnt do anything to correct the behavior when it happened. But again, not the point of the post...



kenda said:


> I tend to think that the unrestricted horse in the field would take off if challenged by another horse higher up then them. When being ridden, they feel more restricted, either actually through reins and fences, or mentally through the presence of their rider, so when the other horse seems to be challenging them, they feel backed into a corner and the only option they can see in the moment is to fight back.


What you're describing makes sense. Similar to a leash or cage aggressive dog.


----------



## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

My opinion is that since this mare is the lowest on the pecking order having some backup support (The OP on her back) gives her the confidence to assert herself.

As for horses being protective of their owners? I have seen it several times, in fact my mare hates the alpha gelding at my barn and even though they are in separate paddocks will get between me and him if he comes up to the fence. 

Duckdodger's story about the BO makes perfect sense to me. Her horse could have formed it's own dislike for the BO, but sensing the tension caused by the man in Duckdodger and possibly others would be enough to cause the reaction.


----------

