# Pole horse and pressure



## dylan winter (Oct 11, 2011)

I am a Brit and a jobbing cameraman. Whenever I am working abroad I take my camera to rodeos (filmed in Canada, New Zealand and the US) and have loved every minute.

I have been a horse owner since I was seven and I really enjoy watching great horses.

I love watching and filming the poles and barrels because you get some great horses and some astonishing riders.

I was filming at a high school rodeo in Kansas - some lovely riders and beautiful horses.

The best little pole I have ever seen was this one

It is the first film at the top of this page

07 Poles – high school « If you like horses

I did put the film on youtube and some people said that the rider was putting too much pressure on the horse....

the dialogue degraded into a general slanging match between western and European riders.

I personally don't think the horse was taking any harm - every day I see traditional riders in the UK applying far more pressure to their horses - hanging on their mouths and wacking away with their riding crops

but would the horse perform as well without the pressure

just curious

Dylan


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I've never watched rodeos or other other Western events so I haven't a clue about what's considered "normal" and acceptable, but the one thing which struck me in those videos was the amount of flailing and flapping done by those riders. It just made me think, "Really? Is your horse so unresponsive to your leg that you have to flap around like a chicken trying to take off to get it to gallop?"


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

It does seem a bit much to me, really, and this is coming from a former pole bender who loves the sport. It's the excessive use of whip and leg on the intial race down that first caught my attention. Kicking like that only ****es the horse off and slows it down, and whipping that frantically is just ridiculous.

Then look at the video still. I can't tell if that's a mechanical hackamore or a really long-shanked combination bit, but either way, she's ripping his face off with it, and has a harsh, thin tie-down pressing on his nose, besides.

It's nothing but jerk-jerk-jerk and whip-whip-whip the whole way through. No wonder he's humping around the end poles and looking so rough. And if I'm not mistaken, she's actually driving the rowels of her spurs, and not just her calves, into him with that much force.

Very poor horsemanship, indeed--I'll pass.


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## dylan winter (Oct 11, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> It does seem a bit much to me, really, and this end poles and looking so rough. And if I'm not mistaken, she's actually driving the rowels of her spurs, and not just her calves, into him with that much force.
> 
> Very poor horsemanship, indeed--I'll pass.


 
but would the horse put in as good a time with less pressure

this was filmed a few years ago now and I understand the mare is no longer with us so it is all a bit academic

I did watch the mare before and after the event and she seemed utterly unstressed by the run

this was filmed at the high school finals in Kansas so these were the fastest girls in the state

and the technique does produce results

Dylan


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I also think the observation "There are worse riders in the UK!" is completely irrelevant to asking whether or not those riders in those events are excessively smacking and yanking their horses around.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

dylan winter said:


> but would the horse put in as good a time with less pressure
> 
> this was filmed a few years ago now and I understand the mare is no longer with us so it is all a bit academic
> 
> ...


It certainly produces endless riders and trainers who think flailing about manically on your horse is the best way to get it to run around some poles!


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## dylan winter (Oct 11, 2011)

*sorry*



thesilverspear said:


> I also think the observation "There are worse riders in the UK!" is completely irrelevant to asking whether or not those riders in those events are excessively smacking and yanking their horses around.


 
i do apologise if I have upset you

I was merely trying to avoid an english v western slanging match

but thank you for you input

Dylan


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

I'm not upset.  I was merely pointing that if you are trying to defend this particular style of riding, a claim that there are some riders who suck in a country 8000 miles away, while true, has absolutely no bearing on that video.


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## dylan winter (Oct 11, 2011)

*apologise*



thesilverspear said:


> I'm not upset.  I was merely pointing that if you are trying to defend this particular style of riding, a claim that there are some riders who suck in a country 8000 miles away, while true, has absolutely no bearing on that video.


I do apologise 

so sorry to upset you again

I was trying to get some feedback from some experienced western pole riders

I am not defending anything.

although I do think the horse is amazingly talented and it produced the fastest time of the day

Dylan


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> It does seem a bit much to me, really, and this is coming from a former pole bender who loves the sport. It's the excessive use of whip and leg on the intial race down that first caught my attention. Kicking like that only ****es the horse off and slows it down, and whipping that frantically is just ridiculous.


Very true, my little paint horse that I rode growing up would routinely beat out the big bad QHs (in a time when paints were very much looked down upon). But ONLY if I didn't flail and whip! Use a whip and he'd shut down and buck!


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

The only thing that "upsets" me are logical fallacies.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

dylan winter said:


> but would the horse put in as good a time with less pressure


Yes. Observe:





 
That's a 19.8. It looks slower; like the horse is hardly moving, really. So I just checked it on my cell phone stopwatch, and the time is, amazingly, accurate. Look at how much smoother it is than the gray horse video!

And this is the best pole bending run I have ever seen--I believe it may still be the "unofficial" world record--and by a lot, I'd guess.





 
He's riding quite a bit more aggressively in the horse's face than I'd like to see (really, hate to stereotype, but he's riding just like most male barrel racers I've seen...kinda ugly), but the whipping and spurring are still minimal, and the pony still mortally FLIES.





> I did watch the mare before and after the event and she seemed utterly unstressed by the run


Well, the head-shaking and bouncing in the alley says otherwise....



> this was filmed at the high school finals in Kansas so these were the fastest girls in the state


Lots of things do. Doesn't make them necessary or right.


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## dylan winter (Oct 11, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Yes. Observe:
> 
> 
> 
> right.


 
really impressive

you are dead right


t6hose two films are astonishing

incredibly fluid motion from horse and rider

so is that true that a bloke holds the world record

if so....

blimey

Dylan


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I will agree that some horses _need _to be kicked up. The ratiest little son of a b**ch I evr rode I had to SPUR the entire way to the run because he wanted to turn every single pole, and if I let him do it he would turn all day long with the happiest expression on his face - The horse was out of his mind, I swear. If I turned him loose in an or a pasture he would run around like an idiot for hours, and if I put poles out there he would spend a majority of his time playing with them. Running through them, turning them, or of course picking them up and flinging them, LOL.

Moral of the story, some horses need to be kicked up. But I don't think the obsessive smacking and kicking were necessary.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

100% agree with Bubba13

I have actually seen this video on YouTube before, and that gray horse and rider always stood out to me because of the awful way the ride presented, even though yes they posted a fast time. I bet that horse would have run just as well without the constant whipping and mouth jerking. Makes me wonder if that was ever tried. 

The the nice runs that Bubba posted (thank you) show how smooth and quiet a fast pole run can be.


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