# What discipline are you prejudiced against?



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Western Dressage, I hate to see contact with a curb, and two handed on top of that.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I too don't like barrel racing (lower level) when it's all about speed and everyone does it because their horse has legs. But I enjoy higher level NBHA type stuff. 

I personally have a bad taste in my mouth for flat seat. So many people don't know how to work the double bit bridle. Too much curb and not enough snaffle.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

Rodeos and barrel racing. I see so many rough, uneducated, cowgirl wannabes who have no business being on a horse running around the barrels, kicking, spurring and yehawwing all the way home. Makes me cringe. 
But my fellow horseforumers have changed my mind slightly. People such as beau, have shown me that there are some great horse people who barrel race out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't consider barrel racing to be a discipline. I see it as a mounted game, like jousting. Sorry barrel racers!

I dislike Western Pleasure. The horses look broken and lame and the outfits look like a bad bedazzler competition. Sorry WP peeps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

DancingArabian said:


> I don't consider barrel racing to be a discipline. I see it as a mounted game, like jousting. Sorry barrel racers!
> 
> I dislike Western Pleasure. The horses look broken and lame and the outfits *look like a bad bedazzler competition*. Sorry WP peeps.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I spit out my drink laughing at this. Western pleasure horses are my least favorite horses to ride. They take so.long to go anywhere. :lol:


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hmmmm well I try my hardest not to be prejudiced because I realize that for every bad rider in a discipline I see there are five others, I can't help but dislike saddleseat (western pleasure goes without saying!). It's more of how the horses look..... bit too much flash for me. I work at a barn that does saddleseat and some horses look good and natural with it and others just.... don't. :lol: However I absolutely loathe bad riding/horsemanship so maybe it's easier to say I'm prejudiced against that! ;-)


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

.Delete. said:


> I spit out my drink laughing at this. Western pleasure horses are my least favorite horses to ride. They take so.long to go anywhere. :lol:


Haha so true! Have you guys seen the AQHA "trail trials"? They wear the same sparkly outfit, and guide this horse who's pretty much dragging his face on the ground through a series of little obstacles. Hardly looks like something you'd encounter on the trail xD
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Rideordie112 said:


> Haha so true! Have you guys seen the AQHA "trail trials"? They wear the same sparkly outfit, and guide this horse who's pretty much dragging his face on the ground through a series of little obstacles. Hardly looks like something you'd encounter on the trail xD
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


AQHA competitive trail is incredibly hard and you must have the right horse to do it. It's crazy crazy complex and takes years to train a horse to go through a pattern flawlessly. Their judging of trail is very harsh and they judge everything from footfalls to how much guidance your horse needs. 

Don't knock it till you try it! Its one of the hardest competitions in the AQHA especially now that their patterns keep getting more and more complex.


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Gotta be honest...Dressage. I have no doubt that it's a difficult skill to learn and that it takes a lot of work and all but...it's all just a tad bit too snooty looking for my tastes (No offence). Like, the horse is skipping around like a whimsical little child, but yet not getting anywhere any time soon and then there's the outfit of the rider. The hat and the coat and the gloves and...just all too much priss for me. 

Then again....I'm a trail rider/barrel racer so what do I know? :lol:


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## Toucan (Sep 8, 2012)

Well I'll probably get abused.. 
But I don't really like show jumping, the way they take to the air like that & land hard over & over again, I just can't picture them jumping that many things in a row in the wild, maybe a log here or there.

I know there are a few that would enjoy it, & it would come naturally, like Big Ben who jumped set up jumps out in his feild by himself, but from my prospective most seem to struggle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I gotta go with western pleasure. Where's the pleasure in riding a horse that looks half lame and is going to take an hour to get anywhere? Not that I think it is easy to get the horses trained well enough to win or anything like that- I KNOW it's very competitive and technically difficult, so I respect that part. I just have no desire to ever participate and find it unpleasant to watch.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

To be honest, I don't think I'm very prejudiced against any. WP isn't my taste, but this extract from a paper looking at WP gaits points out that the WP canter is not the same as an English canter:










This one attempts to show how different horses move in different manners:










I dislike barrel racers who flap their legs like chicken wings, but enjoy seeing a well-run barrel pattern. I dislike Western Dressage with constant contact on curb bits, but don't mind it in a snaffle. I dislike seeing dressage horses whose front end is doing the Can-Can while their hind barely moves, but enjoy more traditional runs. I love some jumping, but cringe when I see someone riding their horse's neck.

Six years after I started riding, I find myself a lot less judgmental of individual styles and sports, but more judgmental about individual riders, if that makes sense. I don't compete in anything, but I've seen good and bad trail riders too.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

DancingArabian said:


> I don't consider barrel racing to be a discipline. I see it as a mounted game, like jousting. Sorry barrel racers!
> 
> I dislike Western Pleasure. The horses look broken and lame and the outfits *look like a bad bedazzler competition.* Sorry WP peeps.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



that DID give me a hooting laugh!!! so funny.

well, prejudice implies making a judgement on something PRE knowledge of it.

I know nothing about Barrel Racing except that it tends to amp up horses. I would probably not buy a hrose whose previous life was one of barrel racing. 
I also don't like the gaits of WP, and since I know nothing about it, that constitutes prejudice , doesn't it?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm with BSMS on this one.

However, I'd like to point out that what most people don't like about WP is what is called "peanut rolling." The lope turns into the "trope," where the horse is almost dragging it's nose on the ground and "loping" with its front and halfway trotting with its hind.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

I have never found park seat attractive....and all those gaited "big lick" riders...hate it.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Wow...incredible.....as I haven't found a discipline that I don't enjoy watching.

I love to watch barrel racing....and think it's the fairest of all the equine disciplines. Not much way to cheat, no buddy buddy judging, and not open to interpretation. Break the line, time starts, break the line, time stops.....fastest time wins.

Much different from the "show" type judging where a judge can "help" or "hurt" depending on who you are and how they feel about you or your horse.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

This is a difficult one…..although I think dressage is incredible beautiful to watch…..I have never met a dressage person who did not think they were better than all else, which sours me totally.

And I too do not "get" saddleseat. When I go watch my niece on her champion mare in a "pleasure class" with 2 bits and tight contact I don't get it. I am used to pleasure being relaxed, loose rein, relaxed gait and rider, but something so stiff.


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> This is a difficult one…..although I think dressage is incredible beautiful to watch…..*I have never met a dressage person who did not think they were better than all else,* which sours me totally.


coughcoughcough

For me, though I am UTTERLY and COMPLETELY uneducated in the art of riding western, I have to say WP. It. Is. So. Boring. Watching it is the most dreary thing I would ever sit though. Sorry to all WP fans, but in the wild, I cant see a horse saying "Oh look, there's a big lion chasing me, I had better go as slowly as possible in order to get away".


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Just to clear the air, understand that higher level western pleasure is NOT like that anymore. It has grown to be more forward moving and free flowing. The judges actually got in a lot of trouble for placing the troping peanut rollers. There is a huge push to re-vamp the western pleasure world, atleast in AQHA, because of these crippled looking slow movers. The judge's excuse was "when they are all troping peanut rollers, we have to place SOMEONE" and AQHA's answer to that was "Don't place anyone at all". They aren't required to place anymore and AQHA is pushing them to do so if they don't see quality in the pen.

Most of these "lame" looking horses you will see in lower level AQHA, etc. When I was getting my degree in training all of my professors were AQHA judges and we got lectured all the time about how AQHA is trying to improve things, etc. So know that AQHA recognizes this problem and is trying to address it. Along with inhumane practices. We aren't allowed to ride with draw reins on a curb anymore, along with other things. We can get our AQHA card pulled for doing "illegal" things during an AQHA show. They are really trying to tighten up the rules.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't care for Reining bc it just looks like too much wear and tear on the legs on those spins. =/
H/J people do that, too, but the word is out to ground school and flat work your H/J and work on the flat for proper approaches.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Well, as much as I love reining, I will say I hate that the horses are started SO young and so many are burned out or up before they are 5. I love the reining training I put on my horse, since it has made him a wonderful responsive mount, who is fun to ride. Just have to be very careful who is doing the training, like any discipline, as some are pretty rough.


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## PandaJinxes (Mar 4, 2014)

Are we talking just riding disciplines? Because modern-day halter horses are starting to look like dragons... 

If it's just stuff under saddle, I don't like gaited stuff and I don't like low level barrel racing. Barrel racing only because EVERYONE I know that does it is a snobby little brat that treats their horses like trash. Gaited riding only because I did it for a while and it's just not my cup of tea. 

I love reining and I love eventing. Reining horses might be started young, but so are horses in pretty much every discipline.. Wander the world and you'll find it everywhere. But unlike the young racehorses and stuff, reining horses are probably some of the sweetest horses on earth. (Cute, too!)


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

PandaJinxes said:


> Are we talking just riding disciplines? Because modern-day halter horses are starting to look like dragons...
> 
> If it's just stuff under saddle, I don't like gaited stuff and I don't like low level barrel racing. Barrel racing only because EVERYONE I know that does it is a snobby little brat that treats their horses like trash. Gaited riding only because I did it for a while and it's just not my cup of tea.
> 
> I love reining and I love eventing. Reining horses might be started young, but so are horses in pretty much every discipline.. Wander the world and you'll find it everywhere.* But unlike the young racehorses and stuff, reining horses are probably some of the sweetest horses on earth.* (Cute, too!)


Man I'd like to know where you've met these reining horses :lol: A lot of the reining horses I've worked with are grumpy SOBs


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> Well, as much as I love reining, I will say I hate that the horses are started SO young and so many are burned out or up before they are 5. I love the reining training I put on my horse, since it has made him a wonderful responsive mount, who is fun to ride. Just have to be very careful who is doing the training, like any discipline, as some are pretty rough.


I agree with this. A lot of the older reining horses that were higher level when they were younger ARE burnt out. Because so much is expected of them when they are young. Executing extremely advanced maneuvers at the ages of what 2? A lot of the end up crippled by the time they hit 4 or 5


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

I couldn't help but notice 2 comments that didn't like a discipline because it wasn't "natural" for the horse LOL Nothing we do to a horse is "natural". Just putting a saddle on is unnatural. Sorry I had to point that out xD

My least favorite is any w/t/c class. So boring watching horses go around in a circle... Competing and watching are two different things though. Its always more enjoyable participating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

countrylove said:


> My least favorite is any w/t/c class. So boring watching horses go around in a circle... Competing and watching are two different things though. Its always more enjoyable participating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So any pleasure class :lol::lol:


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

.Delete. said:


> So any pleasure class :lol::lol:


Hehe pretty much  but I'm not much of a spectator unless it's rodeo  I'm a huge reining, roping, cutting, penning, sorting, etc... fan. Basically anything to do with ranch work and livestock interests me. I'm not a barrel racer but do like to see a good clean run, problem is like others mentioned, the riders who can't ride, and the ones who push their horse too hard and/or run them with no training. But yea my heart lies with the cows 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

countrylove said:


> Hehe pretty much  but I'm not much of a spectator unless it's rodeo  I'm a huge reining, roping, cutting, penning, sorting, etc... fan. Basically anything to do with ranch work and livestock interests me. I'm not a barrel racer but do like to see a good clean run, problem is like others mentioned, the riders who can't ride, and the ones who push their horse too hard and/or run them with no training. But yea my heart lies with the cows
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm the complete opposite. Watching or doing cow work is like watching paint dry to me. I have no idea why, I just sit there like :-|. But if it's a hunt seat class I'm like :shock::shock::shock:. Something about riding a 16hh+ bad minded horse at a fast pace around other bad minded horses in a tiny saddle with a pretend helmet on just excites me :lol:


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## EquineObsessed (May 24, 2013)

Hmm... I respect every discipline. I have no interest in most of them, however. I will say that I have never met a dressage rider that I enjoyed being around, and only a select few barrel racers. BUT, I don't hold it against the discipline itself. I have zero interest in competing in anything myself (I'm just NOT competitive), so I tend to dislike super competitive people.


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## squidwanda (Jun 18, 2014)

Well first let me put a disclaimer: all disciplines have their pros and cons, all have good riders and bad riders, and all have people who respect their horses and some who don't.

But personally, I don't like hunters. And I'm not sure if you could call it a prejudice because I actually did hunters until I was 15 (3 years ago). I guess for me I didn't like the attitudes of alot of people who I rode with. It seemed to be all about politics and how expensive your horses was. I've always loved riding ponies (I'm only 5 ft tall) with a bit more personality, so we never did that well in the hunter ring (not consistant or fancy enough). And as for the particular discipline, it seems to me that hunters are just eventers who decided they didn't actually have to balls for going fast lol. Also, it seems like sometimes the horses jump off their forehand to achieve that steady/consistant pace. That being said, their are some incredibly good and versitile hunter riders and horses. I remember once doing a clinic where we did synchronized jumping and I think that may still be in my top 10 favorite rides!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

.Delete. said:


> I'm the complete opposite. Watching or doing cow work is like watching paint dry to me. I have no idea why, I just sit there like :-|. But if it's a hunt seat class I'm like :shock::shock::shock:. Something about riding a 16hh+ bad minded horse at a fast pace around other bad minded horses in a tiny saddle with a pretend helmet on just excites me :lol:


Now when you put it like that I can see some interest LOL but I bet I'd be cringing the whole time. Dangerous disciplines don't bother me but bad minded horses do :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gossip (Sep 26, 2011)

Barrel racing/rodeos. I'm sure not all rodeo people or barrel racers are bad, but the majority of the time the horses are treated badly at rodeos and in barrel racing there is the over excessive use of spurs and kicking and shouting and yanking on the horses mouth. 
Also, western pleasure, ugh. How is that even enjoyable? The horses go soooo slow, and the don't look like they're enjoying themselves. I was riding my horse around at a normal trot, and I was doing laps around this one girl cantering in that super slow canter western pleasure horses do, where they practically drag their back feet behind them.
But also, I hate steeple chasing! Ordinary racing is on the border line for me, but it still goes steeple chasing? Horses racing at a full gallop while jumping over high obstacles is a sure fire way to break the horses neck, and worse. Ugh.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

countrylove said:


> Now when you put it like that I can see some interest LOL but I bet I'd be cringing the whole time. Dangerous disciplines don't bother me but bad minded horses do :lol:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You'd be surprised how quirky and difficult a lot of the AQHA hunt seat horses are. It's a ton of fun :lol:


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

I have always disliked WP. The gaits are too far out for me. The blingy everything and the incredible money people will spend...well, it sickens me. I know not all people in WP are like that, but the ones that are...I seem to remember this one girl who thought she knew the world about horses because she was a WP champion. Ugh, just ugh.

And I really, really have a distaste for breed show hunter under saddle stuff. Totally not the same as a hunter/jumper hunter under saddle class. The horses look like WP horses in English attire. Bleah. 

And, in general, I CANNOT stand the breed show society. 
I do enjoy barrel racers, but only the people over 25 really. Too many bratty Teens for my liking! My boss barrel races though and she's totally awesome. 

I'm a true English rider at heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## squidwanda (Jun 18, 2014)

Corazon Lock said:


> I have always disliked WP. The gaits are too far out for me. The blingy everything and the incredible money people will spend...well, it sickens me. I know not all people in WP are like that, but the ones that are...I seem to remember this one girl who thought she knew the world about horses because she was a WP champion. Ugh, just ugh.
> 
> And I really, really have a distaste for breed show hunter under saddle stuff. Totally not the same as a hunter/jumper hunter under saddle class. The horses look like WP horses in English attire. Bleah.
> 
> ...


Why don't you like breed shows?? I was thinking about taking my pony to one but I've heard really mixed opinions about them
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bedhead (Aug 4, 2013)

As a saddle seat rider (I show CEP though, so that focuses more on the horse's manners and less on the knee action), I will hate on the Big Lick riders all day long and _please_ don't even start with me about it.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

squidwanda said:


> Why don't you like breed shows?? I was thinking about taking my pony to one but I've heard really mixed opinions about them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Breed show people can be very stuck up and hard to deal with


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Activity rather than discipline, but polo and racing - both use the horses merely as vehicles with very little attention to anything else.

Western Pleasure I have only seen in videos, but the horses always look uncomfortable to me and a bit "sad" but I have to say that this is not an educated or rounded view


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

squidwanda said:


> Well first let me put a disclaimer: all disciplines have their pros and cons, all have good riders and bad riders, and all have people who respect their horses and some who don't.
> 
> But personally, I don't like hunters. And I'm not sure if you could call it a prejudice because I actually did hunters until I was 15 (3 years ago). I guess for me I didn't like the attitudes of alot of people who I rode with. It seemed to be all about politics and how expensive your horses was. I've always loved riding ponies (I'm only 5 ft tall) with a bit more personality, so we never did that well in the hunter ring (not consistant or fancy enough). And as for the particular discipline, it seems to me that hunters are just eventers who decided they didn't actually have to balls for going fast lol. Also, it seems like sometimes the horses jump off their forehand to achieve that steady/consistant pace. That being said, their are some incredibly good and versitile hunter riders and horses. I remember once doing a clinic where we did synchronized jumping and I think that may still be in my top 10 favorite rides!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would have to disagree. Most hunters actually jump with form. If they do not have form, they will get nowhere. Eventers on the other hand-as a nurse it scares the poo out of me to watch. WAY too many of those horses cannot jump! They have no clue where their legs are, and some jump like a deer. Train wreck waiting to happen in the average everyday event, IMO. (lower levels, of course) You would never get away with that in hunters or jumpers.


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## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

squidwanda said:


> Why don't you like breed shows?? I was thinking about taking my pony to one but I've heard really mixed opinions about them
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


People do seem a little stuck up but the judging seems really weird and people seem to be the types that think they do all the disciplines and are really cool when they haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg. I told a lady at an Arab show I rode h/j and she said she rode the hunter part. I was like cool, a jumper. Come to find out she just rides HUS, and the breed show HUS classes are, in my opinion, way different than the actual discipline. Just the general atmosphere is a little...off?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DaraT (Jan 30, 2010)

WP as it is shown today - 4 beat lope that is slower than a trot, loping with the horse's bowed into the rail and hindquarters way off the rail, toe dragging jog that is slower than a walk, a walk that looks like the horse is going nowhere and head still on the ground despite rule changes. I find it disturbing that the breed shows have to specify the correct cadence of each gait when called for and still no one does it. 

Trail - except for a gate and a bridge, there is nothing about the trail course of today that even resembles a trail. Should be called Western Obstacle Course.

Racing - This should be changed to start racing a horse only in their 5th year. Give those babies a chance to finish growing.

There are others, but I'll stop here. As said before, each discipline has their good and bad.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I have ridden different disiplines over the years and I am surprised to hear that Dressage riders are so disliked. When I started to ride dressage I found everyone to be most friendly and helpful, very encouraging. More than any other type of showing that I did. I enjoyed showing dressage partly because of the people that I met there. 

As far as WP, I showed in that in the 1960's and it was just starting to promote the "peanut roller" and four beat lope. I just couldn't ride like that so stopped showing in that disipline. Way back then I remember that the Judges were not supposed to promote that type of riding, but they were the ones who won so everybody went that way. If it has been frowned upon for so many years, why is it still happening?

I am not a big fan of racing because the horses are started so young, and I don't like to see any young horse pushed too hard as it does them no good for a long healthy life.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

The answer to the thread title is somewhat challenging to me, as I have three lovely horses, and ride in not any specific discipline. Quite frankly, I ride seldom! When I do, It's with an English saddle, (for lightness), and bit less using rope reins (because I can, and my horses enjoy the freedom). I live in a wilderness setting, and far from shows/judges/arenas, and other such 'man-made' things in which create an obstacle from the real, true, magnificent beauty of a horse in it's natural state, and natural setting. Watch a few videos on youtube now and then of horses galloping in the wild and such. It brings one back to the fact that these are magnificent animals that _we should consider as privilege that they even allow us on_ _their backs whatsoever_, as it's not a part of their original nature in the first place.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I dislike western pleasure and halter stock horses. Let me explain......

I hate the unnaturally slow and stilted way western pleasure horses are made to move. Horses can't levitate people, let them move a little faster so they aren't hopping around like they are lame. :evil: It just isn't physically possible for such a large animal to move that slow while trying to maintain a canter. And the trot is shuffling. Ugh. 

Halter Quarter Horses (and related stock breeds). I don't hate the horses, they can't help what people have done to them. I hate that people are breeding huge overmuscled horses that look like beef cattle and have really WEIRD conformation. They are prone to unsoundness, just don't look right, just don't move right. It's just a horrible thing to do to a horse. Not to mention HYPP. Why breed FOR a genetic defect on purpose.

Sigh. Yeah, racing isn't perfect, rodeos aren't perfect, performance horses aren't perfect, but at least in those sports the horse needs to remain sound. In the above mentioned disciplines soundness is not rewarded or bred for. 

That's why I am not against crossing breeds and grade horses in general. As long as people do these things to purebreds in the name of horse shows, well, how can we trust them to breed *sound* trail and using horses???


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

It is odd for me to defend WP, since I have no desire to do it, but here goes:"_However, had the extended lopes completely conformed to the three-beat requirement for the lope, the smoothness of the gait would have been lost; *the lack of suspension and inclusion of diagonal couplets means there is no “bounce” in the stride and allows for a smooth, comfortable ride*. Correct performance of a three-beat gait includes suspension, which creates “bounce and therefore roughness during the ride. Losing the smoothness of the stride would be contradictory to stock horse breed association guidelines. Horses performing the collected and extended lopes did not indicate proper head carriage or a level topline and did not conform to guidelines for gait performance. Therefore, it would be prudent of major stock breed association’s to take into consideration the way in which the lope is currently being performed and either adapt current western pleasure gait definitions to more closely match what is being performed or to fully enforce the gait definitions as written._"​The WP lope has been bred and trained into something other than a true canter. It is a gait of its own, producing a smooth riding horse. It has nothing to do with what I want my own horse to do, but neither does dressage, jumping and cutting. Sometimes it helps to stand back and see things through the eyes of those that love a sport.



Woodhaven said:


> I have ridden different disiplines over the years and I am surprised to hear that Dressage riders are so disliked. When I started to ride dressage I found everyone to be most friendly and helpful, very encouraging...


For myself, the only thing I dislike about dressage are the folks who try to tell everyone else they are riding wrong because they don't ride like dressage riders. I've had multiple debates on this forum with dressage fans who tell me dressage is THE basis for ALL riding, and that EVERYONE should ride with their heel under their hip, and their toes straight ahead, etc.

Perhaps dressage riders are nice to other dressage riders. They tend to be less pleasant to folks who ride in a different style. I don't know of another equine sport that tells everyone else they are wrong...


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

bsms said:


> The WP lope has been bred and trained into something other than a true canter. It is a gait of its own, producing a smooth riding horse. It has nothing to do with what I want my own horse to do, but neither does dressage, jumping and cutting. Sometimes it helps to stand back and see things through the eyes of those that love a sport.



I would never go up to someone on the street and tell them their riding discipline sucked. But since the thread is about what disciplines we are prejudiced against, I figured this is a place I can share my prejudice against western pleasure. 

Maybe it IS just a prejudice. But it's how I feel about western pleasure at the moment. 

Plus, if you let them canter a bit faster it smooths out and you don't have to change the gait into "4-beating" or whatever they actually call it in the WP world.

I have seen some western pleasure classes that I wasn't turned off by. Maybe in the Arabian and Saddlebred world. 

But what the AQHA calls western pleasure is what I can't wrap my head around.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

PS. There is a girl here on this forum who recently posted a video of her first bareback canter on her horse. I think the horse is an Arabian saddleseat horse. I won't post a link because I don't know if she would want me to do that, but her horse as the slowest, loveliest, most comfortable looking canter. 

THAT is the canter I would love to see in western pleasure. The horses could have a lower headset (because saddleseat has a much higher headset) but the canter of that horse is so smooth and lovely and relatively slow. It looks like a PLEASURE to ride. What I see in AQHA western pleasure does not look like a pleasure to ride. :-(


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Woodhaven said:


> I have ridden different disiplines over the years and I am surprised to hear that Dressage riders are so disliked. When I started to ride dressage I found everyone to be most friendly and helpful, very encouraging. More than any other type of showing that I did. I enjoyed showing dressage partly because of the people that I met there.
> 
> As far as WP, I showed in that in the 1960's and it was just starting to promote the "peanut roller" and four beat lope. I just couldn't ride like that so stopped showing in that disipline. Way back then I remember that the Judges were not supposed to promote that type of riding, but they were the ones who won so everybody went that way. *If it has been frowned upon for so many years, why is it still happening?*
> 
> I am not a big fan of racing because the horses are started so young, and I don't like to see any young horse pushed too hard as it does them no good for a long healthy life.


Because that was a fad and it's still hard to get it to stop as the lower level people STILL do it. Judges don't have enough balls not to place anyone so they place what they can accordingly. 

High level western pleasure horses are BORN slow. They don't need yanked on to slow down, they just naturally float. There is so much misconception in western pleasure right now because what most people see is the lower level 4beat lope. Please know that is NOT how it is in the higher levels. I've seen horses be excused for 4beating. 

However, in the lower levels of WP there still are the "self proclaimed" trainers who grew up in the peanut rolling 4beating atmosphere and think that is how it still is. They don't educate themselves. Plus you have lower level judges who are still placing it. The people who are to blame are the judges who place these people. If they never placed the 4beaters this fad would have never came to light.

After all, everyone wants to win, so why not copy what the winning horse is doing.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

My absolutely favorite "natural" western pleasure horse. Is No Doubt I'm Lazy. Such a sweet boy too. I was stalled across from them at congress a few years ago and I couldn't help but creep on him :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB5pUYrfRgk 

Notice how the jog is very upright, clear, gait. An the lope is a clear 3 beat gate that is to DIE for. If I were to get a WP horse, it would be by this stud or Lazy Loper.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> I would never go up to someone on the street and tell them their riding discipline sucked. But since the thread is about what disciplines we are prejudiced against, I figured this is a place I can share my prejudice against western pleasure...


It is, and I wasn't trying to disparage you. I actually find the thread a bit odd, since it is hard for someone to not take offense when someone disparages a discipline they love. I don't love WP and will never participate in it. Mia has a jog that would win awards, but my T-shirt, used saddle and eccentric riding style would kill us. Then she would do her canter-gallop, determined to crush her opponents with her speed, me hanging on shouting whoa at the top of my lungs, and...well, we wouldn't get any trophies!

But on a thread about prejudices, mightn't it be nice for some to offer explanations as well? :wink:


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## Bedhead (Aug 4, 2013)

trailhorserider said:


> PS. There is a girl here on this forum who recently posted a video of her first bareback canter on her horse. I think the horse is an Arabian saddleseat horse. I won't post a link because I don't know if she would want me to do that, but her horse as the slowest, loveliest, most comfortable looking canter.
> 
> THAT is the canter I would love to see in western pleasure. The horses could have a lower headset (because saddleseat has a much higher headset) but the canter of that horse is so smooth and lovely and relatively slow. It looks like a PLEASURE to ride. What I see in AQHA western pleasure does not look like a pleasure to ride. :-(


omg you flatterer you~

But be advised that was probably a one time thing and he may never do it again under a saddle; I guess he just instinctively knows to baby me if there isn't a saddle. Normally he thinks he's a race horse. However, the AHA WP world is pretty much in the same boat that the AQHA world is- even with that canter, I'd still have judges harping on me about not letting him hand gallop.

(And I don't wanna hi jack the thread by posting the link so I'll just not but... yeah, that's a thing).


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## Spiritandjuniper4711 (Apr 12, 2014)

Watching western pleasure kills me. My aunt used to do that, her high tempered horse threw her while she was trying to get her to do that unnatural loap. She gave her to me and she now is a happy, fast, trail horse


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Low-level WP and low-level barrel racing induces my gag reflex. Ugh. The upper-level ones I don't mind. Halter ANYTHING is just scary though.

I free-leased an ex-barrel racer whose mind was just completely blown undersaddle. My favorite thing is retraining OTTBs, but this guy could just not get it together undersaddle, no matter what. I had him for over a year and tried to convert him to English because he could absolutely jump the moon but I just couldn't, even with trainer help. Such a shame, he was a big, drop-dead gorgeous buckskin with the most lovely shoulder. Sweet as a button on the ground, too.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

EliRose said:


> I free-leased an ex-barrel racer whose mind was just completely blown undersaddle. My favorite thing is retraining OTTBs, but this guy could just not get it together undersaddle, no matter what. I had him for over a year and tried to convert him to English because he could absolutely jump the moon but I just couldn't, even with trainer help. Such a shame, he was a big, drop-dead gorgeous buckskin with the most lovely shoulder. Sweet as a button on the ground, too.


Try an OTTB who wasn't let down properly after three years of racing and then had his mind blown running barrels. And he's on straight alfalfa and Strategy. Horse is a neurotic mess, even on the ground. Unfortunately, I know this horse personally, and it makes me sad. :-(


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

.Delete. said:


> My absolutely favorite "natural" western pleasure horse. Is No Doubt I'm Lazy. Such a sweet boy too. I was stalled across from them at congress a few years ago and I couldn't help but creep on him :lol:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB5pUYrfRgk
> 
> Notice how the jog is very upright, clear, gait. An the lope is a clear 3 beat gate that is to DIE for. If I were to get a WP horse, it would be by this stud or Lazy Loper.


I like his jog. Still not fond of his lope. *But I'm not a show person, so please don't take it personal.* I just trail ride. But he looks rather stiff in his hind end, especially in the liberty part of the video (around the 42 second mark). I realize he is slowing down there, but let's just say if I was looking for a trail horse, I would worry about his soundness and pass him by. That's kind of a crazy thing to say, because I'm sure the horse is worth big bucks and is outstanding in his discipline. But as an outsider looking in, he looks stiff in his hind end. Just me I'm sure, so don't take anything I say as important. 



bsms said:


> It is, and I wasn't trying to disparage you. I actually find the thread a bit odd, since it is hard for someone to not take offense when someone disparages a discipline they love. I don't love WP and will never participate in it. Mia has a jog that would win awards, but my T-shirt, used saddle and eccentric riding style would kill us. Then she would do her canter-gallop, determined to crush her opponents with her speed, me hanging on shouting whoa at the top of my lungs, and...well, we wouldn't get any trophies!
> 
> But on a thread about prejudices, mightn't it be nice for some to offer explanations as well? :wink:


This is an odd thread. But it's kind of like a way to indulge your equine pet peeves because our opinion was asked for. And yes, I appreciate the effort you put into looking up the gait information. 



Bedhead said:


> omg you flatterer you~
> 
> But be advised that was probably a one time thing and he may never do it again under a saddle; I guess he just instinctively knows to baby me if there isn't a saddle. Normally he thinks he's a race horse. However, the AHA WP world is pretty much in the same boat that the AQHA world is- even with that canter, I'd still have judges harping on me about not letting him hand gallop.
> 
> (And I don't wanna hi jack the thread by posting the link so I'll just not but... yeah, that's a thing).


Yup, that was you! I LOVE his canter. I would love to have a horse that cantered like that. I don't show, so if they say it's fast, it's probably fast, but who cares? That's the beauty of having a horse just to ride for the enjoyment of it, you don't have to bend to fit someone else's ideal. Your horse only has to please you.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Try an OTTB who wasn't let down properly after three years of racing and then had his mind blown running barrels. And he's on straight alfalfa and Strategy. Horse is a neurotic mess, even on the ground. Unfortunately, I know this horse personally, and it makes me sad. :-(


Oh man that's horrible. Poor guy :-( Too bad.
I swear by OTTBs. Any horse that comes off the track sound and sane is worth their weight in gold, and I always say they come with desensitation training 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elsa5 (May 4, 2014)

I don't like halter horses at all they look deformed

Ive never met someone into Dressage that I actually liked, to many stuck up people

Barrel racers, there are more bad riders than good riders. A bunch of Stuck up teens. But I love to Barrel race so I put up with them.

In all honesty until last year I didnt like anyone in the horse world. Every person I met growing up that was into horses was rude and self centered. Then I met a kid that gave me barrel racing lessons and he is the most genuine person, completely changed my opinion on horse people!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

I can appreciate pretty much any discipline when you see a good example of it done right.If anything it is the poor horsemanship skill of some riders that can turn me off or attitudes of people that make me feel prejudice against a discipline....Probably unfair to paint all in a discipline with the same brush because some bad examples Actually, For me I find the ones that are a turn off, are Dressage peeps better than you attitudes & other is many Trail riders that have a chip on their shoulders towards people that show their horse. Dressage & trailriding as a whole I like just some of the people I have met not so much...


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

EliRose said:


> Oh man that's horrible. Poor guy :-( Too bad.
> I swear by OTTBs. Any horse that comes off the track sound and sane is worth their weight in gold, and I always say they come with desensitation training
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm also fairly certain he's proud cut (or whatever the official term is). He acts WAY too much like a stud to not be. He can't be put out with other horses because he's mean as heck, but he's ridiculously herd-bound. He ran my friend through a barbed wire fence THREE TIMES and routinely dumped her into the fence at the end of barrel runs because he didn't know what "whoa" was. The last time he ran her through a fence was the end of his riding career (and almost the end of hers). 

Even with all that, though, I love OTTBs. The "one that got away" was an OTTB who was just perfect and so sweet.


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## Dawn854 (Aug 11, 2013)

I really dislike rodeos, I think that when an animal comes up against the clock, the clock is going to trump the animal's welfare every time.

Just as a side note, not all dressage riders are bad! I know at least two that I absolutely adore, one of them was my old grazing owner, and she really loved and looked after her horses, and mine too, even if he wasn't worth nearly as much as hers.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

After thinking about for a while, western dressage, while I don't like it, is not horrible, in most cases. However, the Big Lick classes make me want to vomit.


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

Like many others, I have a hard time with low-level barrel racing.
Just because you don't fly out of the saddle doesn't mean you can ride.
So many of those kids (and adults) have no seat, no control...
It's nothing like the precision you see out of upper level competitors.
And all of the attitude. Ugh!

I also get frustrated with anything where you have to have "this coat" or "that saddle" or "these boots" because it prevents people with smaller budgets from ever getting involved. 
There are a lot of traditions with every discipline, and I completely respect that.
What bothers me is when people get so caught up in that at local, fun shows that don't even mean anything.
For beginners who want to try something for the first time, it makes it impossible without making a massive financial commitment to something they might not even like.


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## Dawn854 (Aug 11, 2013)

Just another thing.

This isn't a discipline, but people who are dishonest about their own horses' abilities are real show-wreckers for those who want to go out there and have a genuine chance.

At winter dressage this year, Andy and I entered the lowest class, and it was still extremely competitive. I was told that winter dressage was really laid back and good for schooling, but when people are getting scores over 80% in Newcomer, something's got to be done.


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## squidwanda (Jun 18, 2014)

Just a note about dressage people, I can honestly say I've never met a dressage person who was stuck up. And I'm at an eventing barn with several boarders who keep their champion dressage horses their. Maybe it's just because of the setting I know these people in and the fact that I do some dressage as well, but most of them are some of the sweetest older ladies I've ever met!

Hopefully I won't get chewed up for this, but dressage IS the basis of almost all riding. I mean you certainly don't need to ride with dressage postion for everything you do, that would make no sense in western disciplines, but teaching a horse how to use his body in such detailed ways as dressage does is a major plus for everything else you want to do with them. Teaching a horse to go from collection and extension and how to use their back and hindquarters is really healthy for them. 

Theres not a specific discipline that makes me really mad (besides Big Lick TWH), but what I absolutely HATE is when horses aren't allowed to act like horses. My trainer used to work at a really high level barn with super expensive horses that only got 1 hour of turnout a day and it had to be alone. They virtually had no other contact with their fellow horses. And every ride had to be an intense training ride. They never got to do anything fun like trail rides or bareback or just going out to look for horsey adventures. That's what makes me really mad in the horse world
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gossip (Sep 26, 2011)

EliRose said:


> Oh man that's horrible. Poor guy :-( Too bad.
> I swear by OTTBs. Any horse that comes off the track sound and sane is worth their weight in gold, and I always say they come with desensitation training
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know an OTTB who is just the sweetest thing and rides like a dream! She's going to become an eventer


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Team Penning.

We were in Reno last week for a cow supplement conference and went shopping at the trade show that is setup at the events center during the Reno Rodeo. The morning we were there a team penning was going on in the same indoor. I am just going to put it this way;
_I have seen broker horses and better horsemanship at low level barrel races. _

I have noticed quite a few people have mentioned barrel racing as the event/discipline they are prejudiced against. Barrel racing attracts a lot of younger girls and/or beginners because it _seems_ simple; run fast, one turn one way and two the other. Beginners don't realize that the horse needs to be incredibly broke to be successful at barrel racing. Then even after he is trained they need to know how to maintain the horse and fix issues as they arise. Most of those beginners can't do either let alone stay balanced and ride the horse correctly a speed to help the horse rather than hinder him during a run. Unfortunately that is why you see poorly broke horses and **** poor horsemanship at the lower levels and it gives barrel racing a bad name.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

squidwanda said:


> ...Hopefully I won't get chewed up for this, but dressage IS the basis of almost all riding....


No. Good riding principles, applied to the desire for a highly collected gait, are the basis for dressage. Good riding principles, applied to the desire to jump, created the forward seat. Good riding principles, applied to the need to ride half-broke horses in rough country, created the western (Texas) approach. Working cattle on established ranches in California created the bridle approach.

Many folks can ride their entire lives without needing to put a horse "on the bit". You can have a calm, responsive horse while riding without contact. A cowboy needs a fast, responsive, agile horse, but I've never heard a cowboy say that ranch work is the basis of all good riding. I've never met an advocate of the forward seat claim that all good riding is based on it. But dressage advocates - and this IS my pet peeve -insist "dressage IS the basis of almost all riding"...:evil:

FWIW, if you want to know how dressage REALLY developed, and its history, try reading V.S. Littauer's "The Development of Modern Riding" ( The Development of Modern Riding: Vladimir S. Littauer: 9780876058978: Amazon.com: Books ). It was developed for riding in arenas and indoors. It is good for what it wants to do, but is not the foundation that all other riding rests upon.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Bedhead said:


> As a saddle seat rider (I show CEP though, so that focuses more on the horse's manners and less on the knee action), I will hate on the Big Lick riders all day long and _please_ don't even start with me about it.


Don't think ANYBODY here will disagree with your opinion. =D


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Team Penning.
> 
> We were in Reno last week for a cow supplement conference and went shopping at the trade show that is setup at the events center during the Reno Rodeo. The morning we were there a team penning was going on in the same indoor. I am just going to put it this way;
> _I have seen broker horses and better horsemanship at low level barrel races. _
> ...


Agreed. THEN, these horses don't know ANYTHING but "run fast, turn hard, and _'my legs hurt'_ ." =/


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## PalominoPrincessx (Jun 2, 2014)

Personally, I loathe barrel racing (no offense to anyone). There are just too many curb bits, spurs, yanking at the horses mouth, and the need for speed. There is next to no horsemanship there. I just can't stand to watch either lower or higher level. 

But I also dislike hunting (No offense intended) which is strange since I'm in Ireland but when people are whipping, and yanking a horses head, and kicking with spurs to make a horse jump over a ditch that it could easily fall into and break a leg and have to be put down just isn't my thing. There are just too many horses (and riders) who get seriously hurt trying to jump a ditch or over a mucky stream where a horse doesn't know what's at the bottom of.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't know that I'm prejudiced against any riding discipline 100%. I don't support anything that encourages abusive practices and I cannot stand to watch poor riding and horsemanship being encouraged (happens in a few disciplines).

I will state that I was happy when my daughter showed no interest in competing in speed events like barrel racing, poles, etc. We may attend the occasional play day and participate in those events, but instead of speed we focus on precision and good riding. 

With that said, one of her best friends (the same age) is a barrel racer. But, she started by learning how to ride. She has an amazing seat and balance. Then she working on building her precision. Once that was firmly in place, they added speed (still working on this). After 5 years of lessons and practice, she is one of the best I've ever seen in her age group. Another year working on combining all those skills together and she will be unbeatable. 

But, I feel like she is the exception not the rule. We were at a 4H competition two weeks ago with close to 70 registered for the speed events. I saw so many kids on out of control horses it was frightening. We had horses rearing in the alley, running into the arena out of control, trying to toss kids into walls. One girl was screaming and crying as her horse tore into the arena and spun the first barrel...she was velcroed into her saddle. Her parents were screaming at her to shut up and ride. I wanted to cry too.

I've also heard of people in the jumping world who expect their kid (age 5-6) to be jumping before the end of their first month of lessons. That seems dangerous to me as well. Our coach does not allow her kids to jump until
Their legs are strong enough that they can post and canter without stirrups on the flat. Then then have to have soft hands and learn to not hang on their horse's mouth. Once they acheive those goals, they can start jumping.

So, I guess it's not the discipline that bothers me so much as it is people's impatience to start doing the sport without building a good basic riding foundation first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PalominoPrincessx (Jun 2, 2014)

HorseMom1025 said:


> I don't know that I'm prejudiced against any riding discipline 100%. I don't support anything that encourages abusive practices and I cannot stand to watch poor riding and horsemanship being encouraged (happens in a few disciplines).
> 
> I will state that I was happy when my daughter showed no interest in competing in speed events like barrel racing, poles, etc. We may attend the occasional play day and participate in those events, but instead of speed we focus on precision and good riding.
> 
> ...


 Agreed!


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

Halter. UGH. What a sad life for a horse.

I fed for a guy for a month that had halter horses. Eating yearlings eating FOUR SCOOPS A DAY, IN A STALL 24/7. Poor guys were getting pumped up with all these fat oils and supplements. Sure, they were in good form and health, but to put all that energy into a baby horse, lock them up in a 12X12 stall? No wonder halter horses are always bouncing off the walls. When they would get turned out they would nearly run themselves into the ground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

A few years ago I went to the Quarter Horse Congress in Ohio. As this is a National Show I thought since I haven't been to any Quarter Horse Shows in several years I would be interested to see how the horses are shown now. I'm expecting to see some of the best horses and riders/trainers in the country as this is a National Show. I have to say I was disappointed in what I saw. I went over to the warm up ring and I saw a lot of gear on horses heads to keep their heads down, a lot of snatching, yanking and jerking on their mouths. Horses loping up the rail sideways. I realize this was the warm up ring not the show ring but I didn't even bother to watch a class, I had seen enough.

And as far as Dressage riders being unfriendly, maybe I was lucky in the group(s) I showed in. I had shown western, some reining and was trying to figure out the best place to show a lovely warm blood mare that belonged to a friend. We looked at a dressage pattern and I thought " well it doesn't look a lot different than a reining pattern ( how little I knew then) so lets try that. I ride different styles and don't find dressage riders any more inclined to tell others how to ride than any other groups. The least friendly and most condescending people were the Quarter Horse group.
For the most part I have found other riders to be pleasant.


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## squidwanda (Jun 18, 2014)

bsms said:


> No. Good riding principles, applied to the desire for a highly collected gait, are the basis for dressage. Good riding principles, applied to the desire to jump, created the forward seat. Good riding principles, applied to the need to ride half-broke horses in rough country, created the western (Texas) approach. Working cattle on established ranches in California created the bridle approach.
> 
> Many folks can ride their entire lives without needing to put a horse "on the bit". You can have a calm, responsive horse while riding without contact. A cowboy needs a fast, responsive, agile horse, but I've never heard a cowboy say that ranch work is the basis of all good riding. I've never met an advocate of the forward seat claim that all good riding is based on it. But dressage advocates - and this IS my pet peeve -insist "dressage IS the basis of almost all riding"...:evil:
> 
> FWIW, if you want to know how dressage REALLY developed, and its history, try reading V.S. Littauer's "The Development of Modern Riding" ( The Development of Modern Riding: Vladimir S. Littauer: 9780876058978: Amazon.com: Books ). It was developed for riding in arenas and indoors. It is good for what it wants to do, but is not the foundation that all other riding rests upon.


Oh no I would definitely agree with that! I just think there are a lot of principles in dressage that can be really really useful for the other things you want to do. 

I mean for myself, I don't like practicing my dressage. I think it's super boring and I don't like having do make my horse do so much detail work. But, as our dressage has gotten better, so has our jumping, and so has our trust and teamwork. I guess I shouldn't say it's the foundation for other riding, but I think it has principles that can be extremely useful for almost all other disciplines. However by saying that, I'm not saying that if you don't do dressage or disagree with dressage you can't be a good rider! And I'm a prime example for this, I am NOT a dressage person. My dressage scores aren't good. My pony and I got a 45 (eventing score, our dressage would be a 65 I believe). I love to let her go out on a long rein and when we trail ride I usually just ride in a halter. I just think dressage has widely useful applications 

The true basis for good riding is respect, teamwork, communication, and patience. Not one specific discipline or style


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

#1 greatest dislike is BIG LICK in Tennessee walkers. I love the natural flat shod walkers, but what they do to those poor horses in big lick is criminal.

#2 dislike is, I'm sorry, WP. I really dislike the stunted gaits and the almost robotic demeanor of the horses. And NO...BSMS, the lope is NOT a collected gait similar to the collected canter you see in dressage. Just the opposite.

#3 dislike is AQHA halter. They have taken a versatile wonderful athlete and designed them into weak, deformed useless animals. They hare all but destroying what is good about the QH


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## IRaceBarrels (Jan 21, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Team Penning.
> 
> We were in Reno last week for a cow supplement conference and went shopping at the trade show that is setup at the events center during the Reno Rodeo. The morning we were there a team penning was going on in the same indoor. I am just going to put it this way;
> _I have seen broker horses and better horsemanship at low level barrel races. _
> ...



I totally agree with all you said about barrel racing. Little girls want to be cowgirls and run their horse. It attracts a lot of crappy riders. Because of the speed and lack of judging there isn't a reason for them to not just bit up their horse into the meanest combo around, grab some big spurs and a whip, and try for a time. But these people never make it far. They destroy their horses. Then the people that train and communicate with their horses surpass them and they give up. At least that is what I've seen. Either that or they keep buying new horses and complain when they don't work out either. 

I know so many great riders that barrel race. They're light in the commands and care about the physical and mental well being of their horses. It saddens me that poor riding has made such a bad name for barrels. 


I'm prejudiced against AQHA halter, and hunters. Halter horses look like fat cattle with post legs and tiny feet. I feel like hunters is just about money and looking like a clone. I would say I'm prejudice against big lick, but no. That is more deep set hatred.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

squidwanda said:


> Oh no I would definitely agree with that! I just think there are a lot of principles in dressage that can be really really useful for the other things you want to do...The true basis for good riding is respect, teamwork, communication, and patience. Not one specific discipline or style


We do agree, then. Dressage training can be very helpful for a horse and rider. Many of the things dressage works on apply to very different pursuits. When I was having problems with Trooper's flexibility, I got some lessons and some exercises to work on from a lady whose foundation was barrel racing. Some time later, I saw those same exercises in a dressage book. The ability to collect and make a balanced turn apply to both pursuits, and apply to my trail riding and even neighborhood riding, although I've trained in neither barrel racing nor dressage.

I think of it as convergent evolution: "the independent evolution of similar features in species of different lineages".

The problem with prejudice in equine sports is similar to the problem it can create between humans - the inability to see the good in something (someone) else, or the unwillingness to adapt that good thing to your needs.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> ..And NO...BSMS, the lope is NOT a collected gait similar to the collected canter you see in dressage. Just the opposite...


Actually, Allison, that WAS my point! As I wrote:



bsms said:


> [quoting a research paper] _...had the extended lopes completely conformed to the three-beat requirement for the lope, the smoothness of the gait would have been lost; *the lack of suspension and inclusion of diagonal couplets means there is no “bounce” in the stride and allows for a smooth, comfortable ride*. Correct performance of a three-beat gait includes suspension, which creates “bounce and therefore roughness during the ride...__[end quote]
> 
> _ ...The WP lope has been bred and trained into something other than a true canter. It is a gait of its own, producing a smooth riding horse...


One of the major points made by the lady doing the research is that, as performed in 2010, the WP lope was NOT a true canter. It was a four-beat gait, and she believed the stock associations ought to either admit it and judge FOR it as creating smoothness, or change the standards and reject it, which would create a bouncier ride - but one involving a true canter.

My point is that people who watch the WP lope and expect to see a true canter fail to understand what gait the horse is using and why. Once you understand why the horses are bred and trained that way, you can at least appreciate what it is rather than be disgusted by what it is not.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Big lick, hands down.

I don't consider this a discipline, but the yahoo, weekend warrior trailer rider. Horse sits for weeks on end, is out of shape, then the weekend warrior comes out with her/his buds to play with the horse while drinking a case of beer.

After this 'play date', the poor horse is almost dead with fatigue, sore as hell. All they do is throw the poor creature out in the field for another few weeks.


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## Chicalia (Nov 5, 2013)

sarahfromsc said:


> I don't consider this a discipline, but the yahoo, weekend warrior trailer rider. Horse sits for weeks on end, is out of shape, then the weekend warrior comes out with her/his buds to play with the horse while drinking a case of beer.
> 
> After this 'play date', the poor horse is almost dead with fatigue, sore as hell. All they do is throw the poor creature out in the field for another few weeks.


I agree with you totally! Drunks + horses are the perfect recipe for accidents, too. It's just irresponsible.

I'm not a huge fan of vaulting. I know the people performing have to have incredible balance, flexibility, and strength, but I'd rather watch one person riding a horse and working as a real team rather than flipping around and posing on it while it's being longed by someone else.

I think "prejudiced" is too kind of a word to describe my reaction to the "Big Lick" style. Can't stand it, personally.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm not prejudiced against any particular discipline. I enjoy watching any horse that is well built, healthy and happy doing their particular job. More often than not the horse that really stands out to me is not the one that wins the class. 

My prejudice would be more directed at people who try to force a horse into any particular mold or use cruel methods to achieve it and the judges/breed assoc. who reward those methods. Some horses like speed events so find one that enjoys running barrels, poles etc.. Some horses like to go slow so use those in WP classes in a natural manner not a forced manner. Some horses like to jump and the list goes on.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

To those talking about things being unnatural. Every single thing we do with a horse for the most part is unnatural. Horses are not made to carry people. Which is why we have to work so hard to make sure they are using their hind ends, to make sure they have fitting tack, having to pull teeth so they can comfortably hold a bit in their mouth, have to get their teeth done yearly, have to get their feet trimmed regularly. Nothing about being domesticated is natural to them.

As for the discipline I am prejudice against. I would have to say Polo. I just can not in any way make myself like it. I know most polo horses live a very pampered life style and they only play for a few minutes at a time. But I just can't bring myself to be okay with it.

I am a rare one in terms of loving just about every discipline. My main focus is eventing and jumpers. But I enjoy the challenge of hunters. I love the focus dressage requires. I love watching and riding a well trained western pleasure horse(I truly enjoy No Doubt I'm Lazy, i've loved watching him progress over the years). I get a kick out of proper barrel racing. Reining is a rush. And I love love love harness racing. I enjoy showmanship and halter, but I don't agree with the modern bred halter horses that look like they are pumped on 'roids. I like the halter at lower levels where the horses are also ridden in other classes, so they are not pumped up and nasty looking.

The only thing I can truly say I despise is Big Lick.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> I would have to disagree. Most hunters actually jump with form. If they do not have form, they will get nowhere. Eventers on the other hand-as a nurse it scares the poo out of me to watch. WAY too many of those horses cannot jump! They have no clue where their legs are, and some jump like a deer. Train wreck waiting to happen in the average everyday event, IMO.


I guess you've never seen Opposition Buzz. He jumps like a rabbit and still made it to the Olympics. A fun horse to watch. 

As for me, I dislike ALL kinds of showing. The discipline doesn't matter - they are _all_ too subjective. Showing always leads to emphasizing a particular trait to the point of ridiculousness, and winning is mostly about money/popularity.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

There isn't one discipline I dislike because I can appreciate ALL disciplines when done correctly. I'm a WP person on the AQHA and it's the people that don't understand it or have any experience in it....that rag on it. I love my crystal outfits, and there is something so relaxing about just kicking back and jogging and loping along. Man, I can multi-task on my WP horse when he's jogging or loping....one hand on the rein and the other n my cell phone talking to friends or clients, and my horse doesnt miss a beat. As for lame, y'all just aren't used to a horse that can move their legs in slow motion yet it's real time.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Wow guys, I'm wounded.




















Yeah not a huge fan of eventers. Of course I find jumping and dressage notable disciplines to learn, and I have dabbled, but a lot of the horses I have ridden have been hot, strong, and just not my type of horse. I don't know about you guys, but my horse walks in head down, loose rein, licking and chewing to her barrel pattern. Until I kiss to her to go, she's asleep, and SAFE. No risk of her jumping and taking off on me to the pattern. If I do feel unsafe, all I need is to say whoa and her hind end buries in the ground and all four feet stop moving. To me, that's the meaning of "broke". All my colts get started like that and all the horses I take on to train end up like that. I don't WANT to have to have contact all the time. You give contact to a young horse, not a broke on, IMO.

Plus I just recently got kicked in the knee by an eventer and have a broken femur/knee cap. My little barrel horse packed me several miles with two fractures and a bone chip home while that eventer jigged, threw his head, snorted, and danced around.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I'm just saying that no matter what I'm riding, I don't tolerate that BS. My horses will walk and behave themselves, or they go meet jesus and you bet they don't do it twice....Too many good horses out there to waste time with something less than excellent to me.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Sorrel, I think everyone's "I hate barrel racing" comments should be qualified to "I hate BAD barrel racing." We all know that there are a lot more weekend warrior cowgirls out there that take any horse they can get their hands on, run the crap out of it on poor footing every day for weeks, then take it to jackpot barrel races and play days and run the snot out of the poor thing, all the while flapping their legs, digging in with their big jingly spurs, and over-undering the hide off the poor horse. THOSE are the "barrel racers" that most people see and that nobody likes. The ones whose horse falls to pieces when they see a SINGLE barrel in an arena because all they know to do when they see a barrel is run-run-run or they're going to get spurred and whipped.

There's a lady at my barn that my best friend gives lessons to and helps her with her horse. The horse knows the barrel pattern, but the lady refuses to enter the arena if there are barrels set up anywhere, because her normally level-headed, calm horse turns into a hot mess when she sees a barrel. She quivers, she prances, and she very nearly runs through your hands completely because all she knows is "barrels=RUN!"


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I have never competed in any horse related stuff, all I ever did was stock work, but I was thinking about doing a bit of campdrafting, and may in the future. At the time I had a couple of horses that I thought, with a bit more work, could have been pretty god at it. But I wanted to hold off and have them moving better. I was shocked when I watched the quality of some of the runs, my horses were well past the abilities of what people seemed to think was acceptable. And its funny, but you watch campdrafters and a lot of them are all over the place on the horse, and the horse is all over the place und them, often the horse goes one way and the rider goes the other and jerks the horse back under them. Pretty poor when you compare it to something like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcJwm-yUwOo

But the discipline that really gets me, and the horses look like some sort of horse space creature mutant, and the riders look like strange constipated little men in suits desperately trying to hold it in till they get to a toilet, is the big lick stuff, that **** cat be comfortable for horse or rider. 
Barrel racers, I can’t get the whole thing where they look like they are actually levitating above the horse with their legs stuck out to either side like they are trying to do the splits, what is that about? I really don’t get it. 
Generally not a fan of any sporting discipline, they tend to take an “aspect” of the whole and reify everything to achieve good performance in an the “aspect” at the cost of everything else.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Anrew, the pic you posted is mainly what you'll see in lower level barrel racing and with bad barrel racers. Those aren't the girls that are winning at the national level.


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## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

I don't hate any of them but barrel racing is on my bad list lol.. it's fun to watch but IMO it ruins the horses.. making them hot and crazy and all go and no whoa.. jumping being my next not so favorite to much wear on the horses.. I like speed but like s nice level headed horse who can take it slow too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Anrew, the pic you posted is mainly what you'll see in lower level barrel racing and with bad barrel racers. Those aren't the girls that are winning at the national level.


fair enough, I can dig that, but WHY IN THE HELL would you do that in the first place???


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AnrewPL said:


> I have never competed in any horse related stuff, all I ever did was stock work, but I was thinking about doing a bit of campdrafting, and may in the future. At the time I had a couple of horses that I thought, with a bit more work, could have been pretty god at it. But I wanted to hold off and have them moving better. I was shocked when I watched the quality of some of the runs, my horses were well past the abilities of what people seemed to think was acceptable. And its funny, but you watch campdrafters and a lot of them are all over the place on the horse, and the horse is all over the place und them, often the horse goes one way and the rider goes the other and jerks the horse back under them. Pretty poor when you compare it to something like this
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcJwm-yUwOo
> 
> ...


 
And that is why you don't tie your McCarty to your saddle when working cattle


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Somebody is welcome to tell my barrel horse she is all go and no whoa.










I don't know. Fifteen foot slide tracks from running down 35mph tend not to lie.










Sometimes when I'm feeling super show-y I'll run her home and sit back and let her slide down. I only do that once in a blue moon in good ground, maybe twice in her whole career, but she is broke enough that she can do it.

It's about horsemanship. Do you also hate cowhorses? What's so different about the two pictures here...?



















The difference is the NRCHA is a lot harder for stupid people to get into and give the sport a bad reputation. That's all. There's a lot more people who barrel race as well, so the stats and numbers for bad riders are way higher but that's to be expected. It's not even comparable.


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## eventrider (Dec 27, 2013)

I dislike any type of horse racing. Even though its super popular i think what people do to those horses is unfair. Having them run at break neck speeds when they only like 2 years old isnt fair to the horse. 

I also dislike western pleasure no offense but i feel like its more of a beauty pageant then a real horse riding, at my barn the people that ride western pleasure there horses dont even break a sweat...


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Bless you, SorrelHorse, for doing it RIGHT!

If I ever went to an event and saw a horse walk calmly into the arena (rather than needing to be dragged in and then rearing, jigging, and all around freaking out) I'm pretty sure I would stand up and CHEER.

(Obviously, I've never been to a higher level event). 

I'm a member of a FB group for a state close to where I live and it's dominated by low level barrel racers. It's chalk full of "I need a stronger bit" and "how do I get her to stop rearing/refusing to enter the arena?" type questions. (Occasionally there's a good tack deal so I haven't left the group yet.. but I'm tempted).


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> And that is why you don't tie your McCarty to your saddle when working cattle


Yeah, I think I tried tying it to the saddle once and after a couple of minutes and thought "screw this" and stuck it back under my belt.
But the really impressive thing is that it got caught through the rein, not the lead rope end; I think they did a great job of keeping it together when it went pare-shaped.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

AnrewPL said:


> fair enough, I can dig that, but WHY IN THE HELL would you do that in the first place???


Because they think they have it right. They think that's the only way to get the good times and win those jackpots. They don't realize, or oftentimes don't care, that they are doing more to hinder their horse than they are to help it. They're the kind of people that think that using bigger bits, bigger spurs, and whipping their horse through the barrels is what the pros do. They don't take the time to figure out how to do it right.

My best friend was one of those "slap a bigger bit on them and hope for the best" type of weekend warrior barrel racers. She just sold one of these bits to our local tack store: Sherry Cervi Diamond Twisted Long Gag Bit - Horse.com She had used it on her crazy OTTB gelding who she had trained herself to be a barrel horse when she was 13 and he was 6 by reading Sherry Cervi's book on training a barrel horse. When I asked her why on God's green Earth she used a bit that ridiculous, she said it was because he ran through every other bit she had tried on him, including a solid curb with a high port and 7" shanks. She said that it was the only snaffle he listened to and had any sort of "whoa" in. She admitted to direct reining him in this bit while running barrels. Now, in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing and stayed out of their horse's mouth, this bit might not be such a bad thing (BTW, it's MUCH bigger in person than it looks in the pictures, trust me! :shock: ). In the hands of someone who solely uses it because their horse is ill-trained and they have to use increasingly harsh bits to maintain a modicum of control, you can imagine the consequences. My best friend's gelding is now a 100% pasture pet who is unsound to be ridden because he ran her through one too many barbed wire fences. All he knew how to do is run-run-run and now his brain is pretty well fried.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

You wanna know a really easy way to fix a horse with gate problems?

Actually spend time with them at the show. I don't run and tie my horse up. I run and then go right back to the gate and make her open/close it, walk others in, etc.

I don't judge people with gate problems. I use them to teach my horse how to go in easy.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4343933773531&set=vb.1743116537&type=2&theater

Granted my horse is a cheat and shouldered the entire way but that was my fault for not schooling her on the pattern the entire week before and just dry working her. That walk in though is what I'm proud of.

If you listen close you hear me say, "My horse is asleep. Let's go." right before I kiss to her.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Because they think they have it right. They think that's the only way to get the good times and win those jackpots. They don't realize, or oftentimes don't care, that they are doing more to hinder their horse than they are to help it. They're the kind of people that think that using bigger bits, bigger spurs, and whipping their horse through the barrels is what the pros do. They don't take the time to figure out how to do it right.
> 
> My best friend was one of those "slap a bigger bit on them and hope for the best" type of weekend warrior barrel racers. She just sold one of these bits to our local tack store: Sherry Cervi Diamond Twisted Long Gag Bit - Horse.com She had used it on her crazy OTTB gelding who she had trained herself to be a barrel horse when she was 13 and he was 6 by reading Sherry Cervi's book on training a barrel horse. When I asked her why on God's green Earth she used a bit that ridiculous, she said it was because he ran through every other bit she had tried on him, including a solid curb with a high port and 7" shanks. She said that it was the only snaffle he listened to and had any sort of "whoa" in. She admitted to direct reining him in this bit while running barrels. Now, in the hands of someone who knew what they were doing and stayed out of their horse's mouth, this bit might not be such a bad thing (BTW, it's MUCH bigger in person than it looks in the pictures, trust me! :shock: ). In the hands of someone who solely uses it because their horse is ill-trained and they have to use increasingly harsh bits to maintain a modicum of control, you can imagine the consequences. My best friend's gelding is now a 100% pasture pet who is unsound to be ridden because he ran her through one too many barbed wire fences. All he knew how to do is run-run-run and now his brain is pretty well fried.


that is a potentially nasty piece of work that is, and here I am not even leading my horses by the reins. 

But still, that levitation trick, far out, it just looks ridiculous, they should turn that into a discipline in its own right, kind of horse acrobatics


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Good barrel racing is an adrenaline rush to watch. When it is done well and the horse loves it's job, I enjoy it. I loved watching the top barrel racers in the country at the rodeo finals this year. Those girls can ride!

My issue comes from the girls and their parents (in my area anyway) who emphasize speed over skill. That over horse their kids and tie them to the saddle to send them tearing into an arena helmet less and out of control. We saw so many near disasters during that show. I watched kids nearly get thrown into walls or have their horses flip over on them. I watched kids beat their horses with a whip and yank on their mouths. I saw horses foaming with sweat and white eyed with fear. That's the barrel racing I object to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

HorseMom1025 said:


> Good barrel racing is an adrenaline rush to watch. When it is done well and the horse loves it's job, I enjoy it. I loved watching the top barrel racers in the country at the rodeo finals this year. Those girls can ride!
> 
> My issue comes from the girls and their parents (in my area anyway) who emphasize speed over skill. That over horse their kids and tie them to the saddle to send them tearing into an arena helmet less and out of control. We saw so many near disasters during that show. I watched kids nearly get thrown into walls or have their horses flip over on them. I watched kids beat their horses with a whip and yank on their mouths. I saw horses foaming with sweat and white eyed with fear. That's the barrel racing I object to.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We have a play day at our barn the weekend after the schooling shows. Our BO knows pretty much zip about any kind of gymkhana events. She didn't even know how big the pattern was supposed to be. She doesn't allow anyone to run in big bits or with spurs unless she has seen them ride and knows they won't spur the crap out of their horse. Most of the girls entering the play days are younger (under 18, usually) and the BO doesn't want anyone hurt or any horses hurt.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

SorrelHorse said:


> Yeah not a huge fan of eventers. Of course I find jumping and dressage notable disciplines to learn, and I have dabbled, but a lot of the horses I have ridden have been hot, strong, and just not my type of horse. I don't know about you guys, but my horse walks in head down, loose rein, licking and chewing to her barrel pattern. Until I kiss to her to go, she's asleep, and SAFE. No risk of her jumping and taking off on me to the pattern. If I do feel unsafe, all I need is to say whoa and her hind end buries in the ground and all four feet stop moving. To me, that's the meaning of "broke". All my colts get started like that and all the horses I take on to train end up like that. I don't WANT to have to have contact all the time. You give contact to a young horse, not a broke on, IMO.
> 
> Plus I just recently got kicked in the knee by an eventer and have a broken femur/knee cap. My little barrel horse packed me several miles with two fractures and a bone chip home while that eventer jigged, threw his head, snorted, and danced around.
> 
> Of course there are exceptions to every rule. I'm just saying that no matter what I'm riding, I don't tolerate that BS. My horses will walk and behave themselves, or they go meet jesus and you bet they don't do it twice....Too many good horses out there to waste time with something less than excellent to me.


My event ponies are highly offended.

My 21 year old TB/WB cross who is an eventer will pack around kids all day half asleep. I have to give her a smack on the rump to get her to wake up. She doesn't kick, bite or act strung out. I walk her into the start box before cross country and she is half asleep. She doesn't wake up until the stewart starts the count down and says "go" then she trots out of the start box and won't pick up the gallop until I tell her to.

Every event horse I train is like this. 

I don't know what kind of event horses you hang around. The O'Conners ride their horses bridless. Any reputable trainer wants a quiet horse that doesn't get the spunk until its asked of them.

Kind of like the reputable barrel trainers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

GotaDunQH said:


> There isn't one discipline I dislike because I can appreciate ALL disciplines when done correctly. I'm a WP person on the AQHA and it's the people that don't understand it or have any experience in it....that rag on it. I love my crystal outfits, and there is something so relaxing about just kicking back and jogging and loping along. Man, I can multi-task on my WP horse when he's jogging or loping....one hand on the rein and the other n my cell phone talking to friends or clients, and my horse doesnt miss a beat. As for lame, y'all just aren't used to a horse that can move their legs in slow motion yet it's real time.


I seriously enjoy properly trained wp horses. So laid back, smooth and reliable. I admire the amount of training it takes to make a proper wp horse. I actually miss my days of showing in the western world all blinged out. The only time I ever wear makeup and jewelry lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Ah yes, just like how offended I am over the protesting to barrel racers.

I did say there were exceptions to every rule.


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

Paddling, no car keys, staying in my room, lights out at nine, paddling, no shampoo, pajamas, mis-matched socks, one sock, paddling


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

SorrelHorse said:


> Ah yes, just like how offended I am over the protesting to barrel racers.
> 
> I did say there were exceptions to every rule.


There was supposed to be an lol after "my event ponies are highly offended" sorry! *blush* sometimes I really hate posting off my phone as I seem to either skip words by randomly deleting them and not noticing or the typos end up horrendous.

Ftr though I'm not one of the ones who was hating on barrel racing :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

bsms said:


> Once you understand why the horses are bred and trained that way, you can at least appreciate what it is rather than be disgusted by what it is not.


Regardless of what the gait is trying to achieve, it often gives the impression that the horse is lame or at best completely disunited and lifeless, this is what I find so difficult and hard to appreciate why you would do that, at least in other disciplines horses express their vitality. But , as I said previously, it is not an activity I have ever seen in real life so can only comment in a secondhand sort of way.


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## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

My horse loves loves LOVES the barrel pattern. He's a sweetheart on the trails, keeps his head nice and low for walks, and will walk the pattern, trot the pattern, lope the pattern and will ONLY run it when you ask. The pattern will be set up in the arena and he'll stick to the rail like a good boy all day every day and won't even look at the barrels unless you face him toward them and ask him to do the pattern. I can face him toward the barrels, and unless I ask him to, he'll stand there and not move 

I don't ride with spurs or a crop and I don't yank on his face. He actually needs next to no instruction during his runs. You don't yank on their faces, you ask for their noses. I don't even need to kick him to get him to run. I just tell him to "Get up," when I want him to go all out, and apply a little pressure with my leg to get his butt around the barrel. 

I just recently started learning the pattern myself (my horse is a seasoned pro) and I'm learning it correctly. I too thought it was a sport where you just hop on and go balls to the walls like a yahoo and race the clock, but if you ask my instructor, it's way more technical than it looks. You have to sit a certain way, lean a certain way, move your hands at the right time, keep your hands low, don't have too little reign, don't have too much, keep your horse off the barrel (we're working on this because Sonny likes to hug the barrel like it's his best friend), lean forward, not back, among other things. Oh, and not fall off. :lol:


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## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Barrel racing. (Funny, I know. I'm a barrel racer.) Let me start by stating I know every aid has a purpose when used correctly. Spurs, shank bits, even tie downs.

What gets on my nerves are those girls who needlessly put tie downs on their horses, then throw the next "bigger" shank onto their horse because it suddenly hates it's job and begins not responding and shouldering/blowing the backside/getting alley sour/etc., then they proceed to find some kind of a spur with a sharp rowel to kick their horse as hard as they can because their over-and-under just isn't enough. Because apparently a flopping rider isn't going to throw a horse off-balance. I'm sorry, but humans can't fly with their legs.

Seriously though, I'm not prejudice against any discipline, although I do cringe when spectating anything lower-level in which I am informed. Ignorance is truly bliss.


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## rescuechick (Jun 8, 2014)

I wouldn't include myself in anything particular, I rescue horses and rehabilitate them, I mostly have western saddles, but I just start most of my horses under saddle and then rehome them once they are doing good, many of which would probably go to slaughter. I would like to compete someday in all disciplines, and although I haven't ridden much in English I have a lot of respect for English riders. I do a small amount of training and currently im helping a girl train a horse for barrels but if she didn't want to do it, I wouldn't be doing it. Im a pleasure rider and not really into the showing side of riding yet. 

There are good riders and bad riders in every discipline, what I believe is that every rider should try to work their horses with the most minimal aids possible, squeezing the legs to speed up, minimal mouth contact, leg reining whenever possible, its all in the riders not the discipline. I hate seeing a rider pulling and yanking and kicking horses, it isn't needed when you know how to work with your horse properly, some of this may not be avoidable during the beginning stages of training or retraining, but every horse can learn to respond softly, I can leg rein my horse around barrels, no bridle, no pulling and yanking needed. Im prejudice with those kind of riders. Hope I don't sound like an idiot lol. just what I believe.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I find this thread a bit ridiculous, discipline bashing? REALLY?!!

I have utmost respect for any horse person, rider or otherwise that simply wants to be the best that they can and so right for their horse/s. If that is in barrel racing, polo, dressage... It doesn't matter. If you are happy and your horse is happy, then good for you!

I'm in awe watching reining and barrel racing, what a thrill! 
I have so much respect for people who master their disciplines through hard work and dedication. I have no interest in putting people into boxes depending on their discipline. I have great friends in multiple disciplines, and people in multiple disciplines that I do not care for either.

I'm a Dressage rider. My horses live out in a paddock, I go on trail rides, swims at the beach in summer, feed in my daggiest clothing, get covered in mud with the best of them, have a ridiculous sense of humour and anyone that knows me could never accuse me of being 'stuck up', 'snooty' and all of the other descriptors used in this thread for us widely hated Dressage riders. 
I don't appreciate being put in a box, people meet a handful of riders who claim to be involved in a discipline and next thing every person involved is tarred with the same brush.

That is the basis of racism, sexism etc. 

Why not respect anyone who is out there doing their best, and if you have issues keek it to the individuals, not to every person of that persuasion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Kayty said:


> I find this thread a bit ridiculous, discipline bashing? REALLY?!!
> 
> I have utmost respect for any horse person, rider or otherwise that *simply wants to be the best that they can and so right for their horse/s*. If that is in barrel racing, polo, dressage... It doesn't matter. If you are happy and your horse is happy, then good for you!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You'll notice that I also asked that people try to change my mind, something SorrelHorse did when she showed me how things work with HER horse (pics and video). 

I bolded a point in your post above. MY point was that I had NEVER seen a competitive barrel racer put their horse first. NEVER. Now, thanks to SH, I have.

Yes, poor treatment of horses happens in all disciplines, but there are some disciplines where it seems more common than others (Big Lick, for example).


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

GotaDunQH said:


> There isn't one discipline I dislike because I can appreciate ALL disciplines when done correctly. I'm a WP person on the AQHA and it's the people that don't understand it or have any experience in it....that rag on it. I love my crystal outfits, and there is something so relaxing about just kicking back and jogging and loping along. Man, I can multi-task on my WP horse when he's jogging or loping....one hand on the rein and the other n my cell phone talking to friends or clients, and my horse doesnt miss a beat. As for lame, y'all just aren't used to a horse that can move their legs in slow motion yet it's real time.


THIS is why I was interested in wp. I wasn't ready to "plunge in" and go to the top tier shows but I one of those people that likes to dabble in everything and likes a horse that they can do it with. I'm not quite to the point where I can just lope along on my new mare but we're getting there and I can definitely get the jogging along -- I've done it many of times especially fun bareback  .


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

Well my most hated is probably not realy a dicipline for it certainly is not REAL training. I'm talking about that crap called Horse dancing that the Mexicans like to do. No i'm not talking about Spanish pole dancing or the collected elegant mastered movements of dressage in its various styles (spanish related or not) in rythym and corrographed with music,. but that other crap. Taking whips or sticks and beating a horses cannons (shins) while tied to poles to make it "dance" with music playing in the back ground or taking whips and whipping its legs to jig around with music playing in the back ground. No rythym, no cadence, no finess, no control, no essence of elegance not corrographed to the music playing , just plain fear induced jigging and shuffling about aimlessly to the hilt along with pain. There is a difference between making a person "dance" by shooting at his feet with a gun making the other person being shot at jig and shuffle about than teaching one to do a waltz in a ball room.

My other least favorite is racing. Dont get me started on that one. 

I have ridden and trained WP but I wasnt highly successful in it because I would not participate or fall into the fads of the WP diciplines like dirt sniffer horses and the trogalope that these WP horses do today perform. I like a well trained horse that will go as slow as I want him but also go as fast as I want him also. WP today is not what I see WP should be so I usualy just stuck with the local levels of such. 

Barrel racing well I'm not the one for speed and never was, but I see alot of barrel racers out there that take and take and take from thier horses but never give back to them........end up with nutty horses. I know this one girl who can barrel race her horse at a gymkahna one night and then show this same horse in a WP the next night. She also shows this horse in Hunter on the flat and trail classes. Give back to the horse what you take from them.

and of course BIG LICK TWH performance. HATE IT WITH A PURPLE PASSION!!

Its not nessesarily the dicipline I dislike but more like some of the trainers/training techniques and crappy fads that come with them.


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

wanted to add:

I do like a good jogging horse and a horse that can perform a true lope (three beat gait not a four) and go on a loose rein. But the horse should have the mind and the conformation for it. I enjoy having a well diciplined horse that moves nicely in a casual non bone jarring way. I have never been the one for speed. THhis doesnt mean a dirt sniffer trogaloping along but a well diciplined animal that performs such manuvers like the tru jog and true lope at a neck and head level that is better for the horse not forced into a frame.

Racing......well I think more consideration needs to go into the horse .....I dont find racing them at age 2 to be very wise (not to mention the breeding of thousand of horses that only a mere fraction even make it ot the race track and rest go on to either become food for lions, tigers and bears, or to the europeans that like to eat horse. (IF I was hungry enough I would eat it.) Only a lucky few go on to other diciplines and excell in them or are lucky to fall into the hands of sympathetic ppl who rescue them. It can be exciting to watch fine TBs or QH race down a track but my excitement is usualy guarded.

I respect other diciplines if the trianing is done right and with consideration towards the horse. Its usualy the bad training techniques and fads that I dont like.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

nikelodeon79 said:


> You'll notice that I also asked that people try to change my mind, something SorrelHorse did when she showed me how things work with HER horse (pics and video).
> 
> I bolded a point in your post above. MY point was that I had NEVER seen a competitive barrel racer put their horse first. NEVER. Now, thanks to SH, I have.
> 
> Yes, poor treatment of horses happens in all disciplines, but there are some disciplines where it seems more common than others (Big Lick, for example).



I'm glad to hear that. I make a point to try and change the view on barrel racers...I ride with quite a few who are better horsewoman than I ever will be, and some who are horrible. Unfortunately the good ones don't "catch the eye" quite like the bad ones do.


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

SorrelHorse said:


> I'm glad to hear that. I make a point to try and change the view on barrel racers...I ride with quite a few who are better horsewoman than I ever will be, and some who are horrible. Unfortunately the good ones don't "catch the eye" quite like the bad ones do.


My 3rd grade teacher was a barrel racer. Everything with her was proper, I never saw her in anything but ankle length dresses and sensible shoes, she played Mozart in her class daily. One day I was looking at a picture in her room of a girl barrel racing and she noticed and told me it was her. 
Its so funny because even though I've seen many of the horrible riders y'all are talking about she is the first person who comes to mind -- she was a great mentor and without a doubt one of the best horsewomen I've had the pleasure of meeting.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I have pictures of me in business clothes, fine dresses, shaking the hands of politicians at speaking tournaments...People never know that I'm a barrel racer there! :lol:

I don't think it's right to ever judge...I've met some horrible people from a lot of different areas, but also some really great people from them.


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## sparks06 (Jul 6, 2014)

Incitatus32 said:


> Hmmmm well I try my hardest not to be prejudiced because I realize that for every bad rider in a discipline I see there are five others, I can't help but dislike saddleseat (western pleasure goes without saying!). It's more of how the horses look..... bit too much flash for me. I work at a barn that does saddleseat and some horses look good and natural with it and others just.... don't. :lol: However I absolutely loathe bad riding/horsemanship so maybe it's easier to say I'm prejudiced against that! ;-)


Totally agree with your last statement! I am not against any particular discipline, however I see how people can go overboard with anything. There are people who race barrels with respect for their horse, and there are people who will race with no warm up! There are people who ride Dressage properly and then there are people who over use their aids and crank their horses heads to their chests! No discipline is without fault! I have never seen a professional level western pleasure that was good, however I have seen many amateurs, locally, who ride the discipline without asking for unnatural movements from their horse, so I am not entirely against that one either. Just the people who make it something bad.


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## DreaMy (Jul 1, 2014)

No judging here SorrelHorse I just find it amusing that so many people automatically think of the not-so-great horse people when you mention barrel racing and my first thoughts are so different


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Well.. it's kinda hard when THIS is the type of picture that is used to advertise a "great barrel racing lesson program"


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## TurnNBurnQueen (Jun 15, 2014)

There are truly good riders in every discipline, but there are admittedly many wannabe cowgirls who don't know a thing about horses besides how to run them into the ground and it irks me to no end. If you truly train, condition, and take care of your gaming/barrel horses right though, it can be fun for both you and the horse, and not be looked upon as so bad. 

I'm not a fan of Western Pleasure to be very honest. It's become more about the money, bling, and push-button horses than true talent and dedication. The horses have odd, broken gaits and are almost brain-washed into the same monotonous patterns. There are a few riders who I know do things outside this, and I realize all WP riders aren't this way but most of the competitors are just there for the obnoxiously glittery costumes and the effect of "looking pretty".

Just my opinion!


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

skiafoxmorgan said:


> I have never found park seat attractive....and all those gaited "big lick" riders...hate it.


 
I enjoy watching pleasure park and country pleasure simply because I dont care for the set tails and over animated gaits.


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## Kimmy1985 (Jun 8, 2014)

I'm not prejudiced against any discipline. There are ignorant people in every one and great people in every one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Try an OTTB who wasn't let down properly after three years of racing and then had his mind blown running barrels. And he's on straight alfalfa and Strategy. Horse is a neurotic mess, even on the ground. Unfortunately, I know this horse personally, and it makes me sad. :-(


 
Dont beat Strategy, its a good feed and I have fed it for years but its designed to be fed more with your grass hays. I have fed my show horses on it for a long time with great success. 
The problem with some horses is that if they are naturalyy a little hot then high feeding is not a wise thing. Barrle raceing is fine if you give back to the horse. Thats the problem.....many dont give back but take and take and take and keep on taking and thus a wigged out horse with a neurotic brain. Some horses just do not have the propensity for such things and are forced to engage in them regardless due to ignorant or stubborn ppl who cant see the horse for the ignorance clouding thier sight. Some horses on thier own just do not have the mind for such events. Add a great amount of carbs with a high amount of protein and you have one hyper, cranky horse with a brain thats more than likely going to explode if pushed beyond thier limits and capabilities. To everything there is a balance.


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

bsms said:


> Actually, Allison, that WAS my point! As I wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The lope as taought to me was a three beat canter at a slower pace and cadence BUT with impulsion from the rear (not dragged by the front). In a true lope there is no extra beat (as in four beats). Some horses are just not physicaly built to do such a slow gait with out putting in another foot fall to make up for the slower pace. I beleive alot of WP want so slow of a pace with out proper rear end impulsion with the least amount of movment that the horse has no other choice but put in an extra foot fall and the rider accepts this and trains for this......simply because its least movment and slower gait. Many times I see those that but in an extra gait are not properly impulsed by the rear with the body engaging underneath itself for forward impulsion. Such a "correct" way of movement creates to much "movment" in the horse and the rider and WP ppl dont like that. I train for a solid three beat lope and do not and will not accept a four beat in a lope from any horse I work with. This of course makes my horse slightly faster than the other performing the four beat lope but hey, at least my horse is impulsed from the rear, and is performing it in the correct manner and not being forced to put in an extra beat to accomodate the rider/trainer least amount of movement. A good rider should be able to accomodate for it. 
I used to ride and show intercollegiatly WP and rode some horses that four beated it and I HATED it. IT felt wrong to me and out of rythym. I would often speed them up some. Of course I didnt place or placed lower in the ribbons. My favorite mount was in Morehead University named Gabe. When I got lucky to draw his name out of the hat I was elated because he performed the true lope that was just darn near perfect with out having to be in his face and with great impulsion in the rear. I nailed the classes I showed in when I rode him. He was also conformed well to be a WP horse and had a good mind for it.


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## ZaneyZanne123 (Nov 9, 2013)

SorrelHorse said:


> You wanna know a really easy way to fix a horse with gate problems?
> 
> *Actually spend time with them at the show. I don't run and tie my horse up. I run and then go right back to the gate and make her open/close it, walk others in, etc.*
> 
> ...


That is part of giving back to the horse. very important esp in speed events that you give back to your horse.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

ZaneyZanne123 said:


> That is part of giving back to the horse. very important esp in speed events that you give back to your horse.



Her and I have breaks three times per show.

Ten minutes for water mid morning, half an hour or so at lunch, then fifteen minutes in the afternoon. Other than that, we are at work and she knows it. I think it's good for them mentally.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

TurnNBurnQueen said:


> There are truly good riders in every discipline, but there are admittedly many wannabe cowgirls who don't know a thing about horses besides how to run them into the ground and it irks me to no end. If you truly train, condition, and take care of your gaming/barrel horses right though, it can be fun for both you and the horse, and not be looked upon as so bad.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Western Pleasure to be very honest. It's become more about the money, bling, and push-button horses than true talent and dedication.* The horses have odd, broken gaits and are almost brain-washed into the same monotonous patterns*. There are a few riders who I know do things outside this, and I realize all WP riders aren't this way but most of the competitors are just there for the obnoxiously glittery costumes and the effect of "looking pretty".
> 
> Just my opinion!


And this is stereotyping....like saying all timed event horses are crazy and hot.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

ZaneyZanne123 said:


> The lope as taought to me was a three beat canter at a slower pace and cadence BUT with impulsion from the rear (not dragged by the front). In a true lope there is no extra beat (as in four beats). Some horses are just not physicaly built to do such a slow gait with out putting in another foot fall to make up for the slower pace. I beleive alot of WP want so slow of a pace with out proper rear end impulsion with the least amount of movment that the horse has no other choice but put in an extra foot fall and the rider accepts this and trains for this......simply because its least movment and slower gait. Many times I see those that but in an extra gait are not properly impulsed by the rear with the body engaging underneath itself for forward impulsion. Such a "correct" way of movement creates to much "movment" in the horse and the rider and WP ppl dont like that. I train for a solid three beat lope and do not and will not accept a four beat in a lope from any horse I work with. This of course makes my horse slightly faster than the other performing the four beat lope but hey, at least my horse is impulsed from the rear, and is performing it in the correct manner and not being forced to put in an extra beat to accomodate the rider/trainer least amount of movement. A good rider should be able to accomodate for it.
> I used to ride and show intercollegiatly WP and rode some horses that four beated it and I HATED it. IT felt wrong to me and out of rythym. I would often speed them up some. Of course I didnt place or placed lower in the ribbons. My favorite mount was in Morehead University named Gabe. When I got lucky to draw his name out of the hat I was elated because he performed the true lope that was just darn near perfect with out having to be in his face and with great impulsion in the rear. I nailed the classes I showed in when I rode him. He was also conformed well to be a WP horse and had a good mind for it.


if a horse is 4 beating at the lope, it's because the horse is not using it's back, and it's up to the rider to get the back rounded. A horse can 4 beat by going to slow but also at a regular lope; it's not really about the speed but about not using the back correctly.


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## Cielo Notturno (Sep 12, 2013)

Western pleasure. If feels like the horse goes so painfully slow, it would be easier to just get down and go on foot. I find it painful to even look at.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^that's ok, I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere fast anymore. I have a car for that.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

FWIW, the study that concluded it was a 4 beat 'canter' in WP used:

"Horses selected for this study 1) were located at a nationally known stock breed western pleasure trainer’s facility, 2) demonstrated desirable jogging and loping qualities according to what is currently being seen in stock breed western pleasure competition, 3) determined to be “healthy” for the purpose of this research project on data collection day by a licensed veterinarian, 4) are actively training for or competing in stock breed western pleasure competition, and 5) demonstrated visual soundness. The research team included individuals who are actively involved in the equine industry and are qualified to render judgments concerning gait quality and acceptability in stock breed western pleasure as well as soundness."

The 4 beat was determined, not by feel, but by video analysis allowing strides to be determined to 0.01m/s and stride duration to be measured in milliseconds. The paper is no longer published online that I can find.

In any case, my point was that we can react to disliking something in several ways: we can dislike something and rant about it, dislike it and ignore it, or dislike it and try to understand why someone else might like it. I generally prefer options 2 & 3. I'll never perform Western Pleasure...I'm not quite the type:










But my mare does a great slow jog that can make me appreciate how others might become fans of WP.


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## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

I am not really against any discipline. I am not a huge fan of the big lick stuff, but I also know nothing about it. If someone came up to me right now, and invited me to a show, I would go! There is always an opportunity to learn something. I like asking questions and seeing things for myself before forming an opinion. 

I am a Dressage rider. I recently moved away from the Dressage barn that I was managing and into a town where western disciplines are the majority. Let me tell you what REALLY gets me going. All the western people who wont even give me an opportunity to go to a show, go see their horses, invite me for a trail ride. You name it, I have tried and tried and tried to get involved in horse related activities in this area. NO ONE will give me the time of day BECAUSE I am a Dressage person. I am very open minded, and like all things horse related. I am always willing to learn new things, and always have significant interest in a good horse related conversation, ESPECIALLY if its about something I know nothing about. I love to learn. BUT I wouldn't think its Dressage people who are snooty. I was welcomed into the sport by several very nice people who were willing to answer my questions and show me the ropes. BUT having a Dressage person come into a Western atmosphere is something completely different. In my experience, its not the Dressage people that are snooty. Its the assumptive western people who decide you're snooty before they've given you the opportunity to show them otherwise. 

Ahhh. 

That being said, I know that there are a lot of very nice western people out there. I talk to many people here on the HF who are wonderful on so many levels. Excellent horsemen, and good people. I would give anyone a chance before I decide who they are without knowing them.


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## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Kimmy1985 said:


> I'm not prejudiced against any discipline. There are ignorant people in every one and great people in every one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


very well said!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Strawberry4Me said:


> I am not really against any discipline. I am not a huge fan of the big lick stuff, but I also know nothing about it. If someone came up to me right now, and invited me to a show, I would go! There is always an opportunity to learn something. I like asking questions and seeing things for myself before forming an opinion.
> 
> I am a Dressage rider. I recently moved away from the Dressage barn that I was managing and into a town where western disciplines are the majority. Let me tell you what REALLY gets me going. All the western people who wont even give me an opportunity to go to a show, go see their horses, invite me for a trail ride. You name it, I have tried and tried and tried to get involved in horse related activities in this area. NO ONE will give me the time of day BECAUSE I am a Dressage person. I am very open minded, and like all things horse related. I am always willing to learn new things, and always have significant interest in a good horse related conversation, ESPECIALLY if its about something I know nothing about. I love to learn. BUT I wouldn't think its Dressage people who are snooty. I was welcomed into the sport by several very nice people who were willing to answer my questions and show me the ropes. BUT having a Dressage person come into a Western atmosphere is something completely different. In my experience, its not the Dressage people that are snooty. Its the assumptive western people who decide you're snooty before they've given you the opportunity to show them otherwise.
> 
> ...



You can come to my shows! My next one is next week, AQHA Regional Champion in Springfield MA. You don't happen to live in New England do you?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

GotaDunQH said:


> You can come to my shows! My next one is next week, AQHA Regional Champion in Springfield MA. You don't happen to live in New England do you?


I'd just been looking to see if they had anything interesting on there!!!


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

jaydee said:


> I'd just been looking to see if they had anything interesting on there!!!


They have a lot of different shows at the Eastern States facility. Big place but vey hot in the summer!


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Big Lick is the absolute worst with the horrid shoes and soring but the flat shod walkers are awesome. 

A close second to the Big Lick horses are the Western Pleasure Quarter Horses. My stomach was sick after seeing the bleeding of horses, the injecting their tails so they can't even move them, the tying the heads up, spuring, mouth jerking etc... Not to mention I just find it incredibly boring to watch and riding like that would also put me to sleep. That said, I Know there are a lot of people who love their horses and would never do those things to their horses. I just can't ever go to another one of those shows because the temptation to hurt people is far too strong.

I am also not a fan of racing because I think it puts far too much stress on the horse and it is made worse by them working the horses so young.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Inga said:


> Big Lick is the absolute worst with the horrid shoes and soring but the flat shod walkers are awesome.
> 
> A close second to the Big Lick horses are the Western Pleasure Quarter Horses. My stomach was sick after seeing the bleeding of horses, the injecting their tails so they can't even move them, the tying the heads up, spuring, mouth jerking etc... Not to mention I just find it incredibly boring to watch and riding like that would also put me to sleep. That said, I Know there are a lot of people who love their horses and would never do those things to their horses. I just can't ever go to another one of those shows because the temptation to hurt people is far too strong.
> 
> I am also not a fan of racing because I think it puts far too much stress on the horse and it is made worse by them working the horses so young.


When was the last time you personally saw a horse being bled, or one ties to the rafters. They did this back in the late 70's and early 80's. This is 2014.

What gets me is overbriddled and overbitted dressage and Hunt seat horses...nose bands of every configuration known to mankind clamping their mouths shut....tense faces and jaws and BTV, I feel bad for them. No need for that. But it goes with the territory with those disciplines...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

GotaDunQH said:


> They have a lot of different shows at the Eastern States facility. Big place but vey hot in the summer!


Going off topic a bit - yes we've been to the Arabian shows there, the Equine Affaire every year and the Big E. Its a really great showground


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

GotaDunQH said:


> When was the last time you personally saw a horse being bled, or one ties to the rafters. They did this back in the late 70's and early 80's. This is 2014.
> 
> What gets me is overbriddled and overbitted dressage and Hunt seat horses...nose bands of every configuration known to mankind clamping their mouths shut....tense faces and jaws and BTV, I feel bad for them. No need for that. But it goes with the territory with those disciplines...


2013 It is still alive and kicking in the show world. I assume the comment about the nose bands was a personal dig against me since I said something about your favorite discipline. Horse in my avatar isn't mine so.... missed on that one. This thread was started to talk about ones least favorite discipline. My comments hold as I have seen these horrific cruelties first hand and very recently. I wish you were right that it didn't happen anymore but sadly, it does and I hate it. As stated before, I know there are a lot of good people in every discipline as there are sadly, cruel people as well. I have had my fill in the Western Pleasure world for awhile. I also wish that the good people in each discipline would fight against those who do these things rather then rallying to defend them or turning a blind eye on them. Even worse is those who model these things in an effort to win.


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## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

Kimmy1985 said:


> I'm not prejudiced against any discipline. There are ignorant people in every one and great people in every one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This.

Whatever floats your boat, so long as the horse's welfare is priority. Grass roots or international level competition there are good and bad in every discipline. 

All I can do as a rider/owner is make considered choices that help me achieve my goals while also improving my horse's physical, mental and emotional state.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Inga said:


> 2013 It is still alive and kicking in the show world. *I assume the comment about the nose bands was a personal dig against me since I said something about your favorite discipline. Horse in my avatar isn't mine so.... missed on that one. *This thread was started to talk about ones least favorite discipline. My comments hold as I have seen these horrific cruelties first hand and very recently. I wish you were right that it didn't happen anymore but sadly, it does and I hate it. As stated before, I know there are a lot of good people in every discipline as there are sadly, cruel people as well. I have had my fill in the Western Pleasure world for awhile. I also wish that the good people in each discipline would fight against those who do these things rather then rallying to defend them or turning a blind eye on them. Even worse is those who model these things in an effort to win.


No, it wasn't a dig against you so please don't assume. It's always been a pet peeve of mine, particularly in Dressage the past several years with the advent of Rollkur by top Europeans...the discipline has been damaged in the same way WP was damaged eons ago. I enjoy Dressage when done right but the movements have become overly affected. And yes, I do know many Dressage riders who feel the same way...my sister being one of them. But I'm still not "prejudiced" against the discipline because the good ones are still out there.

As for turning a blind eye, I personally have reported unsavory behavior to show management at AQHA shows in the past. I sat on the *national *AQHA Show committee for 5 years and let my feelings be known.


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## clumsychelsea (Jul 9, 2014)

Not a fan of barrel racing... I'm sure there are plenty of respectful, considerate barrel riders out there, but I see way too many shank bits and ridiculously large spurs to feel really great about it. (Especially when horses are being yanked and kicked to go faster and get the win.) 

That said, there's good and bad riders in every discipline. I don't really judge based on an event itself; I watch and judge based on how someone is treating their horse.


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

Hunters. As in, Hunter Over Fences and Hunt Seat Equitation, stuff like that.

I can't stand any of it. The way the horses move, the way the riders are taught, the way the judging is ... I was forced to ride Hunters before I 'graduated' to Jumpers, and I hated the judging. I typically placed well, but I couldn't help but think it wasn't deserved.
I firmly believe that there is a reason Hunter courses aren't hard, nor high. It is simply because those riders can't be functional, they are only there to 'look pretty.' 

Now, Show Jumpers on the other hand ... :lol:


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