# Frustrating boarder issues



## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

We are a small private boarding facility. Last month we were boarding a total of 14 horses. We built three new stalls to accomidate current boarders who wanted horses together etc. We charge 250.00 a month for full board which includes 15 lbs of hay and 6 lbs of a 12% grain daily. Also daily stall cleaning 2x a day and daily turnout. We have an indoor arena and heated washrack...

we have a "competitor" in town who has tacked together stalls with chainlink etc. who provides this:
175.00 a month...
no arena, roundpen outside only.. no washrack. 
3 lbs of grain in the am, and hay in the am. According to owner 1 bale of hay covers 8 horses. I can fathom these bales dont weigh more than 50-60 lbs (i have seen them in person) and that is being generous.. meaning each horse if the bale was huge was getting about 7 lbs of hay a day. they clean stalls one time a week and let out horses one time a week. They offer pasture board for 145.00 a month where LOTS of horses are in a lot together..
Ive had two horses move to me that were extremely thin (body condition score of 3-4) from this facility. 

In this last week I had to ask one boarder to leave for issues she was causing in my barn (one bad apple spoils the bunch right?) and I had another who had been with us for over 2 years tell me the night before she was planning to move to other facility in town... some deal with a MIL causing trouble about us being so far away from her house.. who knows.)

So all of a sudden I'm down 5 horses between these two boarders. One i Did not ask to leave paid board as we require 30 days notice... and i just got a call from the competition that two of my OTHER boarders are inquiring about moving there also...


Im so frustrated because I just dont see how the bottom line can mean that much to these people that they would suffer their horses health for a cheaper rate. At 250 a month i am working for less than 4.00 per hour. Im just frustrated to the point of asking all my boarders to leave and going out and getting a real job so we arent dealing with people on the property and all the drama that boarders come with....

Im down to 8 boarded horses in my barn now with 5-6 open stalls.


any other facilities deal with these situations? or are your "competition" more on par with you?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Indoor arena, full board, $250 per month? If I lived close to you, even though I keep my horses at home, I would be moving to your place. I suppose if they think they are saving money or it's closer to where they live, it might make sense, but no reasonable person would keep their horses at a place that underfeeds, I sure as heck wouldn't.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

They'll be back!


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

gigem88 said:


> They'll be back!


 They wont be welcome unfortunetly. Im not dealing with boarders who think its ok to board with me in the winter when my costs are high and leave in summer to save money bc they dont need an indoor.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> They wont be welcome unfortunetly. Im not dealing with boarders who think its ok to board with me in the winter when my costs are high and leave in summer to save money bc they dont need an indoor.


I'm paying twice that board atm and yours sound very nice indeed... the other place sounds like a previous barn my horse was at. I basically was paying over $200 for a crowded pasture.. no food or anything. I had to provide that myself. Terrible terrible place.

What people do to "save money" is ridiculous. At least you have the right idea to take care of them and provide a reasonable price 

That's why I don't concern my horse's care with money. I'll pay whatever it takes to take care of him, with research of course. If I start worrying about money then nothing would get done and he'd be at a disadvantage. 

Needless to say stand your ground.


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## Nitefeatherz (Jan 23, 2012)

I think that they underestimate what they are getting from you. Eventually I think word will get around about the other barn and all the people who DO care will be looking elsewhere. 

The only guess I can make is that people don't realize what they are getting into? Although I would never board at a place that only cleans once a week either! Horses make a big mess in that amount of time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

Feeding aside, cleaning stalls once a week? Turn out once a week? Those 2 things would keep me away PERIOD. 

Full board 250$ a month isn't bad at all! Wanna come open a barn in Ga? I bet I can fill it for you.


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

Nitefeatherz said:


> I think that they underestimate what they are getting from you. Eventually I think word will get around about the other barn and all the people who DO care will be looking elsewhere.
> 
> The only guess I can make is that people don't realize what they are getting into? Although I would never board at a place that only cleans once a week either! Horses make a big mess in that amount of time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 i think that they do underestimate that also. when I was a teenager (over 10 years ago) i was paying 350 a month to board my horse for similar care to what I'm providing in the same state.. just a few hours north. that was the normal rate... If i was to raise my rates to something where I was actually making some money off boarding I would never be able to attract people in this area. 40 miles away board is 600 a month... because it is more "city".. i live in an area where people COULD keep horses in their backyards so its harder to get a good rate for board here. Im just about fed up with it. I have a MS degree and really wanted to be able to stay home with my animals and work from home to run my other business ( i make custom dog show leads) but at this point... the stress and hassle just isnt worth it anymore...


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## JadenAndGagesMom (Apr 27, 2012)

You should not change your rates or rules to make more people "happy" and get more business. You don't want the kind of boarders that only care about being cheap and not the care of their horse anyway! Keep doing what you're doing, people will come, it's a good facility, won't have empty spots for long!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

JadenAndGagesMom said:


> You should not change your rates or rules to make more people "happy" and get more business. You don't want the kind of boarders that only care about being cheap and not the care of their horse anyway! Keep doing what you're doing, people will come, it's a good facility, won't have empty spots for long!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I totally agree. its just hard when you depend on that income to pay your mortgage and all of a sudden you are at half of what you were making.. whereas if i had a "real" job I'd never have these issues. Its making me ALMOST want to get back behind a desk


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## Spirit Lifter (Apr 23, 2012)

I'd look at it like you just rid your stable of the owners who either don't have the money to really keep a horse and the owners who think the bare minimum of care is all that a horse needs to be happy. Wouldn't want to keep those owners around. My guess is that business will pick up with the right people once the pendulum swings back. Good luck!


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## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

Just playing devil's advocate here.. Is there anything else going on that we don't know about? Sounds like the boarder who you evicted is maybe better friends than you think with some of your other boarders. I have seen this happen at other barns, if someone is kicked out, their friends tend to follow.

I can't see Any knowledgeable horse owner sending their horse to a barn where there is only turnout and stall cleaning once a week.. I would be skeptical that that is indeed the case. Perhaps what you heard was just a rumour?
At any rate, there is not much you can do to keep people from leaving if that is what they want. If they do realize a few months down the road that they want to return, I would welcome them back.. at an increased price!! 
I currently board at a wonderful family run establishment, no arena, full care, where I pay @ $250/horse. I would not leave to go to another barn, even if they only charge half of what I currently pay, because it is by far the best barn I have ever boarded at.
I hope it all works out for you.


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

the boarder we asked to leave moved out of state. The other with three horses SAID the MIL was pushing the issue... she was legitmitely upset AND paid her board for this month because we do require the 30 days notice. 

we have two boarders who maybe are leaving and it is a financial issue with both. I know money is tight for people right now and i sympathize... but like I said before I just cant be having people leavin in summer to save money than coming back when my costs are really high with bedding, increased hay etc. and the increased lighting use in my indoor...


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

and if i may add. a lot of our boarders are new/first time hrose owners. I welcome new owners here becaues I want them to succeed at horse ownership... but at the same time they are the ones i have the largest issue with so I see why many barns to not welcome them


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

SpiritLifter said:


> I'd look at it like you just rid your stable of the owners who either don't have the money to really keep a horse and the owners who think the bare minimum of care is all that a horse needs to be happy. Wouldn't want to keep those owners around. My guess is that business will pick up with the right people once the pendulum swings back. Good luck!


 quite honestly i think you hit the nail on the head


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## KarrotKreek (Mar 31, 2012)

You could always have an increased winter rate and reg summer rate. Or offer the $250 rate for a longer than month to month contract to incentivize long term boarders.

Boarding at a barn over winter with an indoor is always going to attract people seasonally. Heck, where I'm at some people have their own pastures/ facilities but still choose to board in winter so that they can ride more. In the summer the barn makes more profit off of lessons and activities, which offsets the reduced boarders. They know this and market themselves that way.

I don't think your boarders were trying to take advantage of you. They paid your rate and met the contract terms, if you don't feel it adequately covers expenses for short term boarders then you should increase it. For the financially strapped, You could offer to let them go to a self care model for a reduced cost. Self care runs $180 where I'm at. You keep good boarders, less work for you, they save money but have to provide all of their own feed and do the work. The key is to figure out what your profit margin is and try to maintain that margin for both self and full care scenarios.

People who care about their horses will pay for higher quality service and care. Regardless of the area you are in. But you need to present and market yourself as a high quality facility and differentiate your barn from those with lesser offerings/standards. If people are shopping around for price, educate them on the quality and care they get at your place and provide them with questions they should ask when looking at boarding facilities... they'll find out on their own that yours is the better option and be able to make an informed decision.


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## karebear444 (Feb 3, 2012)

I board year round at the same stable around your size and I pay $250 a month in winter for stall board/daily turnout. Stalls and pastures are cleaned daily. My mare gets rough board, is in with 2 other horses and has a lean to from spring to fall for $175 a month. Pasture board starts next month so then it is $200 a month. She is happy, healthy and well cared for. I have access to an indoor and trails, there's a bathroom in the barn and the boarders are mature and respectful of each other. 

I can see why people would like cheaper board, but your price is reasonable. I recently saw an ad on craigslist for boarding close to my area for nearly half the price I pay now and I must admit I was tempted to give it a call, but then I remembered the last time I was at a budget barn. It wasn't so great, my horses' care was sub par. After having issues with lack of water, feedings, overly large pastured groups and other boarders borrowing my tack without permission I was quickly looking for a new place. I'm not saying that every lower priced place is this way, but I promised myself the day I could no longer afford to give my horse a good home, I would be fair and find someone special that could give her that good home she deserves.

It sounds like you run a nice barn and quality is important to most horse owners. Maybe you could advertise and possibly bring in more business. I wish you the best of luck no matter what you choose.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I would definately charge a winter rate. I wasn't joking when I said I would move my horses to your place, in the winter, so I could ride in the indoor. I have even thought about doing that in this area, the board is $400 per month, same facilities & care as yours.


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

KarrotKreek said:


> You could always have an increased winter rate and reg summer rate. Or offer the $250 rate for a longer than month to month contract to incentivize long term boarders.
> 
> Boarding at a barn over winter with an indoor is always going to attract people seasonally. Heck, where I'm at some people have their own pastures/ facilities but still choose to board in winter so that they can ride more. In the summer the barn makes more profit off of lessons and activities, which offsets the reduced boarders. They know this and market themselves that way.
> 
> ...


Very well said. I think thats a good idea. Shavings have been really hard to obtain in this area. I get bulk shavings, but in reality i counted wheelbarrows I got out of several loads. Im basically paying the same amount i can buy bagged for.. it costs me 5.00 per wheelbarrow.. in winter when weather is bad horses are not able to be turned out (owners dont like their horses wet and or mudd) .. I was going through a MINIMUM of a wheelbarrow every other day on top of sufficient bedding. and daily for other horses. We went through this past winter because of bad weather three times as much sawdust as we normally do and quite honestly. I barely made anything all winter on boarders. I should of raised rates then, but figured it would catch up come summer when turnout was available again.. so thats is partially where the frustration is coming from 



karebear444 said:


> I board year round at the same stable around your size and I pay $250 a month in winter for stall board/daily turnout. Stalls and pastures are cleaned daily. My mare gets rough board, is in with 2 other horses and has a lean to from spring to fall for $175 a month. Pasture board starts next month so then it is $200 a month. She is happy, healthy and well cared for. I have access to an indoor and trails, there's a bathroom in the barn and the boarders are mature and respectful of each other.
> 
> I can see why people would like cheaper board, but your price is reasonable. I recently saw an ad on craigslist for boarding close to my area for nearly half the price I pay now and I must admit I was tempted to give it a call, but then I remembered the last time I was at a budget barn. It wasn't so great, my horses' care was sub par. After having issues with lack of water, feedings, overly large pastured groups and other boarders borrowing my tack without permission I was quickly looking for a new place. I'm not saying that every lower priced place is this way, but I promised myself the day I could no longer afford to give my horse a good home, I would be fair and find someone special that could give her that good home she deserves.
> 
> It sounds like you run a nice barn and quality is important to most horse owners. Maybe you could advertise and possibly bring in more business. I wish you the best of luck no matter what you choose.


I agree with everything you said. I've been advertising like crazy. Just not many callers at the moment 



waresbear said:


> I would definately charge a winter rate. I wasn't joking when I said I would move my horses to your place, in the winter, so I could ride in the indoor. I have even thought about doing that in this area, the board is $400 per month, same facilities & care as yours.


 
yes amazing how prices range so drastically. I'll be quite honest. at the 250 rate we dont make very much at all after you take in all the costs... It literally cost me 150 a month to bed and feed horses. So that 100 has to cover electric, fuel for tractor to work up arena... spread manure. fix feeders replace buckets... fences etc. I pretty much work for less than 4.00 an hour. I LOVE this business, but we are just at a down point right now and im frustrated... seems everything goes good all at once.. than bad just as quickly


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

stay positive i live with the motto "good things come to good people"!!(thanks to my mom)
it will get better sorry your going through a rough patch. but agree with wares charge a winter rate and summer rate that way losses can be recooped


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> we have a "competitor" in town who has tacked together stalls with chainlink etc. who provides this:
> 175.00 a month...
> no arena, roundpen outside only.. no washrack.
> 3 lbs of grain in the am, and hay in the am. According to owner 1 bale of hay covers 8 horses. I can fathom these bales dont weigh more than 50-60 lbs (i have seen them in person) and that is being generous.. meaning each horse if the bale was huge was getting about 7 lbs of hay a day. they clean stalls one time a week and let out horses one time a week. They offer pasture board for 145.00 a month where LOTS of horses are in a lot together..
> ...


#1 rule - do NOT bad mouth your 'competition'. Ever.

If folks leave, they leave. It sucks and it hurts the check book and feelings. You are smaller as we are and the boarders do become friends. Horse people are emotional and react before they think. 

Stress communication with those you have left and those who will come. No matter how hard we try, there will be those that choose to see the glass half empty.


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## Daisy25 (May 29, 2011)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> Im so frustrated because I just dont see how the bottom line can mean that much to these people that they would suffer their horses health for a cheaper rate.


It's not just you...

ALL businesses are seeing this kind of nickel-and-diming from their customers.

In your case, if you have a nice, well-run facility with great amenities - you should have no trouble filling those vacancies. The folks who left probably don't have the experience to realize how nice they had it at your barn.


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## Kathieh (Apr 15, 2012)

*Boarders*

I have a 5 stall barn on the west coast of FL and charge $500 per month, not by the week. Which means the boarders are getting 4 weeks per year FREE. This includes hay which costs $12.50 to $14.50 per bale here. I do not feed anything less than O/A and T/A. Owners provide their grain but one boarder has been with me for 2 1/2 years and I continue to provide her grain as he is an easy keeper. We have board fence, a pond, riding arena 200 ft by 140 ft. Lots of shade in our pastures, a round pen next to the arena, obstacles for training. I feed 2x day and until recently have purchased small hole hay nets and filled them everyday so the owners horse has hay throughout the day. FREE. When the owner forgets to
show up for her hoof trimming I hold the horse FREE and pay for the owner. 
When their horse needs medication I willingly learn the treatment pattern
and administer meds. FREE. When their horse comes in with an injury I clean it and treat as necessary FREE. When they leave the grooming stall
a dirty wet mess I hose it and sweep it, FREE. When their horse asks me for some relief from the flies I spray them FREE. 
It's endless and I have heard of accusations of bad hay, bad grain, don't care their horse rolled into the fence and broke the board (that they didn't offer to pay for). These people come out on average 1x per week and then hose their horse off! The horse wants a job not a bath!! Does anyone know what a horse wants? These people do not have a clue about horsemanship. If you are this boarder, shame on you. If this is not you PLEASE come to my barn! I want some new people who know how to care for a horse and not treat it like a dog or a human child!


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

If you move your barn here to Australia i will board with you! What i wouldn't do for an indoor!!


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

Just wanted to thank you all for your wonderful advice/opinions. After a lot of thought.. Hubby and I are going to keep the current rate for our boarders here now... If we get boarders coming in rates will be 300 vs. 250... this will leave us with 7 boarders which I feel comfortable with and I'm going to start waiting tables in town again several days/nights a week. Quite honestly I make more money waiting tables than boarding but I dont love the work as much. With 7 boarders I'll have plenty of time to care for horses and work a job.


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## Fingerlakes (May 2, 2012)

It's a shame when people don't put their horse's well-being at the top of the list. If you can't do this then you should consider a pet rock instead.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Hey, Ghostwind, how was the National????


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

All facilities deal with these issues. Kill them with kindness... tell them "I'm sorry to see you go but we are here if you need anything and always welcome back." Charging $300 is the payoff when they come back that will make it worth it but don't let it get to you. 

Also, boarders will always shop around. Even if they don't plan on leaving necessarily but there is always going to be the mentality of "What else is out there?" Try not to take it personally. There will always be highs and lows. I had 4 boarders leave last month (two of which will probably be back), I had 5 new ones this month. It always seems to come all at once.

Along with increasing advertising, add incentives where-ever you can. Maybe bringing in a trainer will spur some interests.

Good luck and chin up! Boarding can be pretty challenging.. add in other sources of income to make it all more worth it.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

At where my horses are boarded there is a bit of the same going on - empty stalls - but that's my fault. Hubby lost his job and I simply can't do $225 per horse per month for stalls right now. Right now those two stalls are the only ones open.

My horses are in a large paddock with a great three sided shelter. I have to clean it - er, daughter cleans it. BO provides and feeds the hay. I pay $90 for each horse plus hay on a per bale basis - which comes out to $310 a month for both of them. Oh, she also feed my supplements and there is a great tack room and indoor arena. 

Last year she was having trouble with filling the stalls and I bullied (yes, bullied) her into raising her rates as no one could actually believe the quality of care she was offering. She is now at $250 for a stall (7 day a week turn out, lots of great hay, stalls cleaned daily, rugs on and off, fly masks on and off, she will even go so far as to clean sheaths and udders if the owners don't) and has 7 horses in stalls (plus six of her own), the two empty ones we vacated last month, and two more in another 24/7 paddock.

The owner of the two in the othe paddock and three of the stalls just bought a house with property so will be leaving sometime late this summer.

Unfortunatly, they also rent out a couple single wide moble homes. The new lady who just moved in was suppoed to be a dream come true and be the weekend stable sitter so the BO and her hubby could go on weekend rides without worry. However siad person has filled the last 24/7 paddock with four of the mangiest half starved, feet not done, two year olds I have ever seen. 

I have been telling the BO she needs to raise to $275 or $300 to compete with the other barns in the area, but anyone who comes in is going to look at those half dead things and run for the hills! It is a no win situation.

HEHEHE - I had someoen try to get to me move to a different stable... four days a week turn out, covered arena, no trails (we have LOTS), no carts welcome, muddy paddocks, small stalls, and a GREAT DEAL at $290 a month plus hay! Which means approximatly double what I was paying for a stall - and half the care for my horse!


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

wyominggrandma said:


> Hey, Ghostwind, how was the National????


 it went well


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I'd KILL (figuratively) for a board bill at only $250/month with what you are giving for board. I can't complain about my own horse's care, as the barn I am at is terrific, but the board fee is a base $600 with more added on in the summer for fans (electric charge) and then again in the winter for barn crew to do the blanketing (granted this is a personal choice as if the boarder wants to do their own blanketing they don't have to pay the blanketng fee and if in the spring the horses are out and it is too hot the barn WILL remove a blanket just for health sake). The board for my horse is more than my mortgage 

I admit I am picky. I would never even think of boarding at a barn that only cleaned stalls once a week or only had once a week turnout and what that place is feeding looks like starvaton rations. Anyone moving over there will eventually regret it when their horses begin to lose weight and start to suffer illnesses or other things due to lack of proper feeding and care. Unfortunately, it is the horses that will suffer....


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## liz48170 (May 14, 2012)

*People are dumber than horses*

I keep my pets at the "run down old barn" that few use these days. Other barns "dis" them.

All I know is that my horses live there, are super healthy, very safe, really like the fresh hay (not round barrels), fed hay all day, love the water, the other horses they are with, love the barn manager who works for pennies, are safe, have safe fencing, do not get hurt, are not underweight, no horse there is underweight or too fat.

I go to other gorgeous barns with gorgeous stalls and see horses that are miserable, some fat, some so thin, fencing that is not appropriate, etc.

The place my horse lives at is no where I would want to live; I don't live in a barn or pasture.

I evaluate the care my horse gets.

My barn manager notices if any horse on 27 acres is not doing well, take them and will watch them in a stall. He sees if a horse is injured, and treats the injury, often no vet needed.

When I live at the barn, I will look at how pretty it is and comfortable it is for me. 

We have horses come to us half starved; their owners saved a few bucks and some barn manager took their board, threw the horse out in the back with hay and a bunch of other aggressive horses, where it couldn't get near the feed.

Others clean the water buckets and the horses hate the taste so they won't drink ...but its nice and clean should humans wish to take a sip

Others use barb wire, well why not save a buck on the electric bill

Horses have so much more common sense than humans.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Don't have time to read all posts beyond the 1st page today. Don't change your rates. Do WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO to makes ends meet. I'm pretty sure that we will have new people in the Oval Office in 2013. Our economy keeps getting pushed down. It's only waiting for the right hands on the reins to really boom.
I'd feel like I was stealing from you if I was your boarder. In June, I'll have owned horses for 27 years, and my staff has always been me, myself and I.


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## liz48170 (May 14, 2012)

Up your marketing and raise your rates. New barns in our area dis' my barn, an older barn that takes fantastic care of the horses. I see people bringing half starved run down horses there, after they figure out a deal is not a deal. I go to other barns and hang around. I really look at the care of the animals, not the tack room, bathroom, or "human facilities". What often sells these days are gorgeous stalls and pretty pastures, not quality of hay, feed, 24/7 expert & attentive management, happy healthy horses and a nice atmosphere. Barns dis' other barns. Very sad. I would raise the board, boast about quality of care, educate boarders and potential boarders on your quality of care for their horse. Too many people are ignorant. You need to educate and market your "product" properly. A deal is not a deal if your horse is not well fed with good quality hay, feed, all you can drink water, room to roam with a nice heard of company. Often humans figure this out too late.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

with the economy , loss of jobs, no raises, People will look for the better deal to save them money. Raising prices could cause other boarders to leave. 
If you figure it cost 100.00 per month for feed, 100.00 to 200.00 per month (est.) for ins so per boarder it would cost 20 to 50 a month at five boarders) 
you are clearing 150.00 per horse per month. not to bad in my opinion


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

my dead cost on grain, hay, and bedding per month per horse is 150.00. NOT including other costs into the equation.. (electric in barn, fuel for tractor to move and spread manure... replacement buckets.. electric for hot water tank, and pump for water etc etc etc.. the 2 hoses i've had to replace this last month alone PLUS the sprayers for them from peoples horses stepping on them. ) Etc etc etc. if you say i donated all of those costs. I make 100 per horse per month. I moved a month worth of manure from the holding pen to the spreader to spread on the field.. it cost me 120.00 in fuel to do that. no one thinks of those costs when boarding. 

Ive managed 3 large boarding barns that had a lot higher overhead than mine. Ive seen the issues boarders cause but it was never on my own property. Quite honestly.. with recent events with boarders.. dealing with people in my yard seemingly 24/7 and having people not care for my property. Im very close to just stopping boarding. 

even when we had 15 boarders if i made the full 100.00 per month per horse i was pulling in 1500.00 a month in supposed profit... Im in the barn directly taking care of boarders horses for 7-8 hours a day. so.. 8 hours a day x 30 days in a month thats 240 hours ... 1500/240 hours = about 6.00 an hour. but after my other costs come out... i figure if im LUCKY im working for about 4.00 per hour. I can go wait tables and make that in half the amount of time. And not have to deal with 6-8 people at my house everytime i turn around.

I dont know how people do it when their barn is in their backyard. Im just really down about the whole thing anymore. I do train horses and might just switch to no public boarding and only my training horses will be here.


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## liz48170 (May 14, 2012)

Seems the money is in the high end barns these days, show barns that sell show horses and train kids on show horses....just the way in my area. Sad to see. I ride miles and miles, and not in circle, have no "show" in me, and see animals mistreated kept in stalls all day (not how God created them). Gosh knows, it must be a labor of love, keeping horses ....can't blame you if you shut your doors. Cut the costs you cut the safety and health and care of the animals, charge more and attract the show end you end up with show horses indoors - I feel your pain as I see it at my own barn and am so grateful my barn managers are still there watching over and loving my horses who run happy and safely on lots of land eating great hay drinking great water in a very safe electric fence watched over 24/7 only in their stall if I want them there, the vet is comming or they are feeding. That's how god created horses, not to sit indoors in a pretty barn or areana, god bless for what you do and sad to see people that don't get it...we get so many starved, sick and "barn sour" animals who turn into great healthy happy horses. When my horses are happy and healthy I have great rides and great relationships with my horses. can't say it would be the same if couped in a stall, fed half of their hay, poor feed, no fence, etc.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

I feel your pain Ghostwind, I just quit the boarding business myself. It kind of started with friends, then some friends, friends it just went on and on. My sister invited one of them into my house and then after that my home became a magnet to all of them. They had me saddling and helping with their bridling issues and they somehow didn't know they were going to be thirsty when they played with their horses, so were just going on in my home and getting them some ice water. I love horses so I tried to keep up but finally I told my husband I've had enough and asked three of them to leave, that I was getting out of the business. I only have one now my original friend ;-) I averaged that I was making $7.50 a day if you counted everything from seeding field to building a roundpen. It just wasn't worth it. My sister even became annoyed at me because for a week after everyone left I just wanted to be by myself and enjoy my home, my horses and read a book.


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

chandra1313 said:


> I feel your pain Ghostwind, I just quit the boarding business myself. It kind of started with friends, then some friends, friends it just went on and on. My sister invited one of them into my house and then after that my home became a magnet to all of them. They had me saddling and helping with their bridling issues and they somehow didn't know they were going to be thirsty when they played with their horses, so were just going on in my home and getting them some ice water. I love horses so I tried to keep up but finally I told my husband I've had enough and asked three of them to leave, that I was getting out of the business. I only have one now my original friend ;-) I averaged that I was making $7.50 a day if you counted everything from seeding field to building a roundpen. It just wasn't worth it. My sister even became annoyed at me because for a week after everyone left I just wanted to be by myself and enjoy my home, my horses and read a book.


 sounds SO familiar! Would love to be able to walk around in my house in a towel after a shower without worrying about boarders seeing me through the window! ****!


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

lmbo I did that just today, in fact I was filling my pool and had on a cami and undies and said what the heck just stripped the sweats off, jumped in the pool to make sure that my patch on the pool had took. It was very freeing lol


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

HAHAHAHAHAAHAH! I might be there soon enough


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

Ghostwind, the final straw for me was the almost a month late board, then the bounced check to go with it and the (I so want to spell a french word here) grande finale was they were asking when I was going to put my pool up. In my head I said hell no, no way I'm going to be picking up after people who were making my home into some sort of social event. They would never have even brought their own towels lol


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

chandra1313 said:


> Ghostwind, the final straw for me was the almost a month late board, then the bounced check to go with it and the (I so want to spell a french word here) grande finale was they were asking when I was going to put my pool up. In my head I said hell no, no way I'm going to be picking up after people who were making my home into some sort of social event. They would never have even brought their own towels lol


 
well im already at that point. Ive got two boarders who still havent paid board for this month (one not at all and the other not in full) and have already had a bounced check from one  I cannot afford to be caring for others horses for free i have enough of my own to care for!


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> well im already at that point. Ive got two boarders who still havent paid board for this month (one not at all and the other not in full) and have already had a bounced check from one  I cannot afford to be caring for others horses for free i have enough of my own to care for!


This particular boarder gave me partial board and said when you go get hay I will pay the rest then, at the time I was trying to get all my hay out of my barn so I could go put all new hay in. I went inside and thought ok what does that mean her horses are still eating the hay I was trying to rotate out. 15 days later I tell her going to get hay, 10 days later she writes the bouncy check. 
When I started this with a friend, I wanted to help someone enjoy owning their own horse. I kind of got put on the spot with the rest, but I figured this might make a little money on the side for me since I had to quit my job and stay at home to take care of my dad. I never even imagined that this would turn into a three ring circus.
This boarder even went and got some of my fencing material and her and her daughter were raising the level of my perimeter fence. This fence was put up by my husband for me, in our front yard because our horses are kept in the back of our property and we have a haflinger who kept finding ways to get out. I was always worried sick about him possibly getting in the road. I came home and saw that and I was like are you kidding me. She wanted to be able to relax and talk instead of looking after her horses and didn't think the fencing was high enough. geez louise give me a break.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

I give praise to all the people out there who do the job of boarding horses. Your awesome. Ghostwind all kidding aside I hope you are able to find a measure of your sanity and I hope this issue doesn't take away the joy of horses away. Sometimes a good ranting gets it back in balance. ;-)


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## cebee (Apr 4, 2010)

Just to play Devils Advocate here,,, is it possible the boarders who left were feeling your frustration with boarding, and chose to get out? I know what it feels like to feel that your BO is less than happy with people in their yard, the lack of privacy.. ( I could never do it. Props to all who can..) If the boarders were feeling that something had changed in their relationship with you, were feeling less welcome, feeling that you were thinking of getting out of boarding...
Could it be they talked amongst themselves and chose to move? I doubt anyone would say " we dont feel like you want us here" as a reason to move. SO they go with cost. 
If they are friends, ride together, it would be logical to move to the same barn...even if it is less than ideal in other ways.
My original BO was always talking about getting out of boarding.. then not.. then getting out.. then not... we finally just moved to a barn where it was a 'business' and less likely to shut down... 
I am not saying you ever suggested to them that you were getting out of boarding, but is it possible they felt something was not the same? If it was a mass exodus, I would wonder if there was more to it than just cost... ( just playing devils advocate....)


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## Blondehorselover (Oct 20, 2011)

Just saw your post. I actually moved my horse from a place I felt was underfeeding even though it was cheaper than where I'm at now. I just wanted him to get the care/food he needed. I would choose your place over the other one any day!


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

People coming and going are a pain, but thats what comes with boarding.
I dont count the cost to move the manure, as i would have to spread manure for my own horses. My h20 is gravity fed , no pump needed. The 'boarders' I have had are Told Bring your own bottled water, period. You cannot drink the water used for the livestock. You cannot use my well water. Bring your own. 
They did have to come into the house to use the toilet, but they had to come find me and into the house we came. If was gone, then they had to go find a service station or fast food place. And there is an old saying.. how to get a million dollars in the horse industry ? start with two.


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## Maverick101 (Nov 8, 2009)

This is why I have always been VERY particular as to who I allow to board w me.
If I get a "funny feeling, or "bad vibe", or I feel that a particular person just won't "fit" in w us here. I wont allow them to sign w me, space or not.it has worked in the past 6 yrs I have been open, I have not had a lot of turn around w boarders. It makes for a great enviroment, as we become a family w very little to no drama, no headaches w missed payements, no boarders who create drama (there are way too many of those around).
So guess what I'm saying is as a BO, don't feel like just cuz someone has a horse and wants to board w you that you have to say yes. I know I don't, and it makes everyones life around the barn happier for it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

cebee said:


> Just to play Devils Advocate here,,, is it possible the boarders who left were feeling your frustration with boarding, and chose to get out? I know what it feels like to feel that your BO is less than happy with people in their yard, the lack of privacy.. ( I could never do it. Props to all who can..) If the boarders were feeling that something had changed in their relationship with you, were feeling less welcome, feeling that you were thinking of getting out of boarding...
> Could it be they talked amongst themselves and chose to move? I doubt anyone would say " we dont feel like you want us here" as a reason to move. SO they go with cost.
> If they are friends, ride together, it would be logical to move to the same barn...even if it is less than ideal in other ways.
> My original BO was always talking about getting out of boarding.. then not.. then getting out.. then not... we finally just moved to a barn where it was a 'business' and less likely to shut down...
> I am not saying you ever suggested to them that you were getting out of boarding, but is it possible they felt something was not the same? If it was a mass exodus, I would wonder if there was more to it than just cost... ( just playing devils advocate....)


No ive never been like that. And never even mentioned it. I go out of my way to see how boarders are doing when they are here if they have any concerns with their horses. I put on and off fly masks... blankets... spray.. if a horse gets a scrape I use my goop for them.. etc. I really treat them as my own. The frustrations really just started this month. Because when you go above and beyond for people and than this all happens.. you cannot help but feel very put out. Ive allowed people to come at all hours of day if it worked better for them. one lady came at 5 am.. ive had others out at 11pm.. Ive really been nothing but accomidating to everyone. Just had it now. Its not worth it.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Give them time to come to their senses. If they ask to come back, all the little free side services are no more without pay. You need to be more business like. Some may feel you hover around and are uncomfortable with that. I rode at a stable and saw the bo only at feeding time and that suited us fine.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*borders (stable issues)*

hiya your yard sound beautiful and dont get you self down.
i my self am a border and have been on a few yards my self but the only reason i moved the traffic in the city going out was bad.
so i moved closer to home.
one of the old yards i was on turned in to a golf course and we have all ways been the best of frends.
there is a small yard here now and i have been back 4 years with both of my ponys and helped them build and maintain water electrics and cctv as well as electric fenceing.
there is another woman who has come back as she was on the same yard 16 years a go as the yard closed down.
she is a right pain in the *** all ways in the way and its an obstical course
to get your own pony done well when i get a head of steam i have got to walk away.
as i have said im a border and i pich in as it makes a better place for evey one.
people are like lemmings thay see a cliff or a cheeper dollar sign and drop of the edge and when it all goes wroung thay only have there self to blame.
take care and dont let it get you down ok your a better yard by miles than the other all the best.


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Give them time to come to their senses. If they ask to come back, all the little free side services are no more without pay. You need to be more business like. Some may feel you hover around and are uncomfortable with that. I rode at a stable and saw the bo only at feeding time and that suited us fine.


 
Oh no trust me I dont hoover. I had the same happen when i was a boarder. FElt everytime i came there the BO would come out and i'd have to talk to them again! LOL. Im only ever out there during feeding/cleaning time. I usually just do a hey how are you guys today... everything going OK kind of thing and quickly update them on any horse issues if there are any. Im in no way a hooverer! I hated when i was at a barn like that. They were great people but i felt i could never get away !


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## Daisy25 (May 29, 2011)

Yes - there should be a balance.

I like to know the BO cares and is available and is watching over the horses. A quick little "hello, how ya doing" is great!

But - I don't need to 'hang out' with the BO every time I got out there, or exchange life stories or feel like I have to be obligated to a "visit".

Ghostwind - your place sounds GREAT! I hope you find the kinds of horse owners who will appreciate your services...


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## Horseboy (May 21, 2012)

Most horse people are crazy lol, I would never want to deal with the borders lol, Horses yes, people NO! I think you need to remember that some people dont understand what it takes to be a good horse owner. Anyone can buy a horse now but to actually know what is best for it is something different. Also most horse people feel like they know everything and sometimes make hasty chooses with out thinking about the horses. Its sad because it seems like you have a wonderful place. Maybe you need to work on marketing ie. horse shows,clinics....i dont know good luck


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> They wont be welcome unfortunetly. Im not dealing with boarders who think its ok to board with me in the winter when my costs are high and leave in summer to save money bc they dont need an indoor.


If your costs are high, adjust your fees to cover them. The lady I board with and I are considering doing just this.... boarding elsewhere in Winter so we have an indoor to use and then coming back to her barn in Summer when we don't need an indoor but want 12+ hours of turnout on good pastures (which we can't get at any of the facilities here that have indoors). None of the boarding facilities we've contacted have an issue with us being Winter only boarders.


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## liz48170 (May 14, 2012)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> well im already at that point. Ive got two boarders who still havent paid board for this month (one not at all and the other not in full) and have already had a bounced check from one  I cannot afford to be caring for others horses for free i have enough of my own to care for!


Hi,

I know just how much work it is to care for an equine to ensure proper health; could never keep up.

The primary customer is the human, secondary the equine.

Just a bit of advise, take or leave on how to manage the human customer.

I run several businesses and can spot a good customer a mile away. I also not do business with a bad customer and will not hesitate to fire a customer that is costing me money due to THEIR behavior. I pay out of my pocket when my fault. I take out of their pocket when they fail to perform.

*GOOD HUMAN CUSTOMERS* 
A good customer wants to know the rules, are willing to abide by the rules 

Do not be afraid of lossing customers. Just like horses, humans can smell your fear, and will take advantage of you or simply, do things that they was allowed or norm at their last barn.

Just like horses, good human customers will respect a fair relationship, boundaries, and live by the rules.

You must first attract good human customers by gaining the reputation of "running a tight well run business".

Not all humans know the difference in how you handle and manage the equine (feed, hay, etc) but they do with how you manage the human relationship.

A bad human customer is worse than a bad equine customer, as you can always put the equine in a stall or pen.

*Just a few suggestions*

Remember - all barns are so different - so your rules need to be clear.

*1). Barn Name / or Stable Name, Inc. *

Set up your boundary first by defining the stable area from your personal space.

Incorporate your business (its a business) to shield from liabiliity, and give you credibility.

You are the barn /stable manager and or trainer, not the barn.


*2). RULES & CONTRACTS*
Write up rules, and form a contract. Post rules in the barn or around your stable as you see fit. POST your private area if needed. Post your hours of operation if needed.

*Human Customer* - 
Before accepting a new human customer enter into a binding written agreement in laymans terms clearly spelling out terms and conditions, long before the equine arrives

If the human won't, you do not want that human as a customer as they will cost you money and drive you crazy(weed them out ahead of time)



*Basics - First your Barn Name*
1). Names / Addresses / Phone Number of barn
2). Stable operation of hours
3). Name of barn manager (you?) and how to contact
4). Human customer name / address / phone
5). Human's equine name / coloring / etc

*PAYMENT*
1). Board rate / mo subject to change within 1 mo or so notice
2). Date board is due
3). Date board is considered late and fines
4). Date or time period at which you OWN horse and may do as you wish with the animal
5). Resoluation late board "to be negotiated"
6). Days notice to remove equine
7). Initial payment (last months board or more)

*FEED*
1). What you provide in board rate
2). Who pays for extras who buys and added cost

*Re Write this area above any time feed change is requested or needed or suggested*

*BARN RULES*
1). Hours of operation
2). Human services provided, if any
3). Human services NOT provided (yep)
4). Stable AREA
5). Non Stable AREA (private property)
6). Tools (poop scooper, cross ties, etc) provided if any
7). Who scoops what poop
8). How you handle human customers guests
9). Farrier rules (yours or anyone)
10). Vet rules (yours or anyone)
11). Animal vaccinations and proof required
12). Time / Date / etc you will notify and then remove animal if not cared for per your rules (annual vaccinations, etc)
13). Any other rules

*TRAINER / Guests / etc*
1). How you handle, requirements

*EMERGENCY*
1). I ask my barn to call my vet in an emergency and if needed, put my loving horse down

We recently had several incidents where the horse was suffering miserably, due to injury or just old age or colic, the barn manager knew it was hopeless but had no authority to call the vet and put the horse in heaven.

I would spell that out in writing as well.

And, as you go along in business, you will write and re write your Terms & Conditions (T&C's). 

Better no customer than a bad customer, human or equine.


Good Luck


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

liz48170 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I know just how much work it is to care for an equine to ensure proper health; could never keep up.
> 
> ...


I totally like how you smell out a good customer. I like rules they let me know what is what without playing a guessing game. I should have looked for someone like myself ;-)
I think a lot of the problem when you board people's horses is you get attached to the horses and the people, you start to feel guilty for calling it a business. I know I did and it definately disillusioned me to boarding. 
Good advice!


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## rascalboy (Jun 30, 2007)

The cheapest fullcare board around here is $475, so you're doing good! Just remember: there arre quite a few people who actually care about their horses, and are able to decide between a crappy place, and a place that's good for their horses. 
Boarders come and go. It's a part of life. Why not just advertise more? Draw in new people. If it's really as nice a place as you say, you'll be able to find people. Our barn charges more than the place down the street, but we provide quality care, while they're just a massive barn with no turnout and obnoxious owners/boarders. Guess who is full, and guess who has half their barn empty?


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## liz48170 (May 14, 2012)

rascalboy said:


> The cheapest fullcare board around here is $475, so you're doing good! Just remember: there arre quite a few people who actually care about their horses, and are able to decide between a crappy place, and a place that's good for their horses.
> Boarders come and go. It's a part of life. Why not just advertise more? Draw in new people. If it's really as nice a place as you say, you'll be able to find people. Our barn charges more than the place down the street, but we provide quality care, while they're just a massive barn with no turnout and obnoxious owners/boarders. Guess who is full, and guess who has half their barn empty?


It has been my experience that humans are more likey to see the human services, unless they really know the equine care end and most do not. Some think keeping their horse in a stall all day with grain no hay, is the best thing for the horse. Pretty tack rooms, gorgeous arenas, rest areas for humans, show barns. It is sad to me when I walk in barns (and I live in horse country) and see the stalls full or horses, only to be let out of prison when their owner takes them into the arena. Maybe that is the way to train a horse for a show, but not the way I want my horse to live. Most of the horses are miserable, unhappy, depressed.

When you manage the human, the rest will fall into place. Harsh, but try not to get attached to the horses owned by the human. Keep business as business. Keep your horses as your horses and work on really separating the two.

Once you feel sorry for the equine, the human has got ya and can do whatever they want, cause they know you won't do nothing to them.

HAY - make a few examples, what would you do if your horse pushed you around?

Treat humans the same way, and then you need to act if they fail per contract, find a home for the equine that is abandoned on your property or send to auction.

Some one some where will find that horse and if its a good horse, take care of it


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

liz48170 said:


> It has been my experience that humans are more likey to see the human services, unless they really know the equine care end and most do not. Some think keeping their horse in a stall all day with grain no hay, is the best thing for the horse. Pretty tack rooms, gorgeous arenas, rest areas for humans, show barns. It is sad to me when I walk in barns (and I live in horse country) and see the stalls full or horses, only to be let out of prison when their owner takes them into the arena. Maybe that is the way to train a horse for a show, but not the way I want my horse to live. Most of the horses are miserable, unhappy, depressed.
> 
> When you manage the human, the rest will fall into place. Harsh, but try not to get attached to the horses owned by the human. Keep business as business. Keep your horses as your horses and work on really separating the two.
> 
> ...


 
So very well written. Thank you so much for the insight. We started charging late fees as per our contract. people were suddenly on time... we've got one we will unfortunetly be selling off in the next few weeks if the owner does not contact us and get caught up. sucks but thats life. I cannot afford to be feeding and caring for others horses. we are a business not a rescue


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## 22horses (May 11, 2012)

You could have 2 rates, one for your dedicated year round boarders and one for the ones who like to come for winter. I have some of those too! It is annoying.


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## liz48170 (May 14, 2012)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> So very well written. Thank you so much for the insight. We started charging late fees as per our contract. people were suddenly on time... we've got one we will unfortunetly be selling off in the next few weeks if the owner does not contact us and get caught up. sucks but thats life. I cannot afford to be feeding and caring for others horses. we are a business not a rescue


Good for you. 

Job well done

The best manager of human adults (parents) was a woman that provided in home child care services. 

I liked her style; She was very specific in writing of when she got paid, on Monday for the entire week, when you drop off your child (secondary customer). Not Tuesday, not Wed, etc. No payment for the week, no service. 

I knew she loved those kids, and I went into her home and hung around, here at there at any time, to see how she managed my kid.

But that is me - I look beyond the front door.

You would be suprised !!

My good friend, a high ranking Prof. asked me one day if I thought she was wrong to ask why her child came out the caregivers door with a few scratches.

She had never gone into the caregivers home, and the caregiver "packaged" each child and handed them to their parent at the door at pick up time and would not allow parents inside her home.

I told her to RUN with her kid, that is not the person you can trust your child with.

That is how many behave with their most precious assets; the just do not understand what to look for in child care

So - do not ever assume a horse owner knows squat about horse care - best assume they know NOTHING and educate them, as they need this info when shopping around.

BTW: The caregiver of my son, had a full house and waiting list at ALL times, while other caregivers were empty.

She had a reputation of running a very tight ship, that brought her business, don't know if the parents knew as much as I did or dropped in enough

But, word will get around quickly

Be FIRM with HUMANS, put everything in writing (contract especially payment and what happens if you do not get paid), and you will find that for the most part, humans will fall into place.

Those that do not, are not responsible enough to own an equine, and you will be doing a huge favor to the equine by removing it from its owner.

Best Wishes


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## 22horses (May 11, 2012)

*So much frustration*

The one thing to consider about going back to work is that when you come home your day is done, nobody coming in and out 12 hours a day, and your yard is your own. I am sure if you figured out ALL the costs including insurance upkeep etc, you would find you work for free, and that is depressing. I am in the same boat, and we are trying to find a way to balance it. Raising rates does make some people upset. We don't run a big "program" of any kind, we are smaller, and people do come and go. We send some off who really disrupt our peace! If I thought for one minute we could sell this place within 3-6 months I would be gone! And go back to boarding out my horse so I can take a much needed holiday.
Good luck it is a really tough balance!


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