# Thoughts on Conformation?



## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Hi! 

I’m not an expert on conformation, and would love some help so I that I don’t buy anything with huge flaws that I might miss.

(I will probably end up posting multiple horses on here until I buy one, if that’s ok)

This guy. He’s supposedly six years old and this is the best picture of him.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I am very far from an expert but he looks very wonky to me. I have no idea what’s wrong but wherever I look it just looks all weird and out of proportion. More experienced people will come along to correct me if I’m wrong but I wouldn’t buy this horse. I’m sorry I can’t give a detailed explanation (because I don’t have the knowledge) but to my untrained eye he isn’t a well put together horse. Maybe he is just too thin so it’s all out of proportion?


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Horsef said:


> I am very far from an expert but he looks very wonky to me. I have no idea what’s wrong but wherever I look it just looks all weird and out of proportion. More experienced people will come along to correct me if I’m wrong but I wouldn’t buy this horse. I’m sorry I can’t give a detailed explanation (because I don’t have the knowledge) but to my untrained eye he isn’t a well put together horse. Maybe he is just too thin so it’s all out of proportion?


He looks wonky to me too, but I can’t figure out what it is! Unless its everything...lol


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

@Horsef I agree he's wonky put together. Not at all a fan of his conformation. 

His neck ties in weirdly to his shoulder an a big hammer head. Keep looking there are nicer looking horses out there.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

He has a very large head for his body. short neck. Nice shoulder. nice back legs, though the hip is steep and small , but canons are short both front and rear. Back is so short it will be very challenging to fit to a saddle.


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## Magnum 59 (Oct 26, 2021)

He looks skinny which isn't helping him. But he has a really short back and neck. He also looks a bit wormy to me. I am strangely attracted to him since I love that sort of colour and I think with some weight he could have a decent jump so might work but I can't recommend him. There are much nicer horses out there. Keep looking


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

Poor little fella, he looks stunted. He didnt have enough feed when he was a baby, poor nutrition will do this to any animal. I would buy him in a heart beat because this is me, I feel sorry seeing any animal in this condition.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

He is what I call "coarse" looking.
I see no refinement in his head or throat-latch area. A oversized jowl I would expect to see in a stud horse.
I would not say he is skinny to me, but possibly a large worm-load he carries.
He is out of proportion...front and back not match and the middle is from another animal too...nothing looks right is right.
His tail has been chewed on and most of it now gone.
Winter coat and all I not like his legs nor hoof angles and suspect he has some damages pending if not better farrier care given and soon.
His left fore, appears it may toe-out from the shadow seen and referring to shadows not like that ankle either...
There is something about his spine but can't see well-enough to know if a shadow, dirt or is it legit a concern.
He's filthy dirty and that lends him no help and I recognize that but...he has to many things that this picture not hide and raise questions.
If you told me he was a yearling...some talking to do cause he is supposed to be a bit weird as they grow in spurts and uneven....at 6 he is done except to widen is not going to calm his issues.
He has a kind eye, watching but quiet...
Sadly, I would pass on this guy.
🐴


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

This is a giveaway type of horse.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Besides being...odd...in every way...

Is there anything about his conformation that would affect long term soundness?

edit: I’m not going to buy him, just curious!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

His legs and hooves to me are questionable the angles...
His ankle....
If the body not meld together evenly it puts greater stress on other parts...that can lead to soundness issues.
🐴...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I think he’s particularly ugly and stunted, but that said, I don’t think it would necessarily effect him negatively. Some of those odd looking stunted horses are spectacular. I don’t see anything glaringly that would say he’d end up lame.

Sometimes we remember pretty is as pretty does.

ETA- you couldn’t use him until you put weight on him. I think he’s very skinny.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

Is that a sale tag on him?


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

My Salty Pony said:


> Is that a sale tag on him?


Yes, he is in a kill pen/feedlot.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Nubs said:


> Yes, he is in a kill pen/feedlot.


I feel bad now. Poor baby.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

If you cut off (in a photo) the shoulder part forward, the rest looks to be a decent looking cowpony . He has good bone, nice hockes, a solid shoulder. But, the hip is weakish. His pasterns are upright (but then so are thousands of good qh's). There is a slight forward position of his legs in the front end, indicating he may be trying to take weight off of them. I think he may be part Appaloosa and or mustang. Like someone said, ugly is not a reason to not ride. But, is he sound on the fronts??


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

tinyliny said:


> If you cut off (in a photo) the shoulder part forward, the rest looks to be a decent looking cowpony . He has good bone, nice hockes, a solid shoulder. But, the hip is weakish. His pasterns are upright (but then so are thousands of good qh's). There is a slight forward position of his legs in the front end, indicating he may be trying to take weight off of them. I think he may be part Appaloosa and or mustang. Like someone said, ugly is not a reason to not ride. But, is he sound on the fronts??


No video unfortunately, so I have no idea how he moves or if he’s even sound.

All I know is that he’s supposedly a 6 year old Appaloosa, and he ships on the 8th.

I could buy him and he might be a stellar jumper and all around horse, or he could need vet, chiro, and special farrier work to stay comfortable as a light riding horse or pasture puff. Then again, that goes for any kill pen buy.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Rest of his pics


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I've rarely seen such a steep hip on a horse. Poor thing. Stellar jumper is quite unlikely as he will most likely be unable to bring his hip underneath himself well. Probably it will shorten his stride and make him choppy. The right front looks a bit clubby. His girth groove is so far forward that combined with his very short back he would be a saddling nightmare.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

I think with some weight hes going to be a nice looking little guy, I really like the way his hind-end looks, I like his hip too. Now that I can see hes got a tail thats even better, at first I though it was chewed off but I see that someone has braided it. With some farrier work you can get those feet to looking better. Is he in Texas? I sure do feel bad for the guy to be in such a bad situation. With some good grocery's I think he'll make a nice looking horse. So I'll be the odd one here, I like him.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

I forgot to ask, How tall is he? He looks like he could be in the 14 hand range, could make a good pony for a younger kid are small adult.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

My Salty Pony said:


> I forgot to ask, How tall is he? He looks like he could be in the 14 hand range, could make a good pony for a younger kid are small adult.


He stands right at 14 hands.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

Nubs said:


> He stands right at 14 hands.


I was thinking at least 14.1, lol so close enough.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Don't think weight will change ugly. Sorry but he's in a kill pen probably for a good reason. 

Even with the newer pictures doesn't change poor conformation. Pass on him don't buy because you feel sorry for him. Nothing about him says he'd be athletic.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

rambo99 said:


> Don't think weight will change ugly. Sorry but he's in a kill pen probably for a good reason.
> 
> Even with the newer pictures doesn't change poor conformation. Pass on him don't buy because you feel sorry for him. Nothing about him says he'd be athletic.


Not buying, don’t worry.

I am determined to buy with my head!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Nubs said:


> Not buying, don’t worry.
> 
> I am determined to buy with my head!


That's good. Unless you are very tiny, I doubt you'd be able to get a saddle on him that you would fit into with his short back. Maybe a pony saddle would fit him.


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## wvfarrier (Sep 13, 2021)

I will admit it. Although he is a train wreck conformationally......Id probably buy him just to to see if I could turn him into anything.....but Im a sucker for sad cases


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Because he is such a train-wreck, he is probably such a sweet ride. 
Wonder if he is willing, nice mind and think not react....
I hate the thought of any animal hitting the meat truck...hopefully, someone will give him a try and chance at a new career and life.
🐴...


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

10, 12, and 13 year old crossbreds.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

All need some serious groceries but body structure is much better for each.
Better melding together of parts, they are better balanced seen.
All though have a further set back SI joint, {spine/hip girdle} than is preferable leaving a longer back and weaker hind end.
All of these horses have a heavy coarser head again, but with not a stunted growth body it not look so out of proportion.
Any of these animals are going to be gorgeous when fully weighted and some TLC given.
All 3 could live in my pasture easily.
I no longer compete much so specific confirmation is not so important today. Most any built animal as long as clean moving with a brain in their head can do the task at hand we ask for our trail-riding ventures.. 
The longer back needs consideration to not create sore or issue, otherwise...nothing horrbily glaring jumps at me on any of these.
🐴...


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I'd give the 10 and 12 year old a chance if all else was in order. Unless I was lighter I'd skip the 13 year old. Back is too long and I suspect ulcers. He looks pained.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

QtrBel said:


> I'd give the 10 and 12 year old a chance if all else was in order. Unless I was lighter I'd skip the 13 year old. Back is too long and I suspect ulcers. He looks pained.


Pictures are in the wrong order, sorry!

Paint is 10

Bay is 12

Buckskin(?) is 13


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## Part-Boarder (Aug 17, 2019)

These ones seem a lot more proportionate. This article breaks down what to look for - eg neck approx 1.5 times the length of head and same as front leg etc:




__





Conformation of the horse


Good conformation is key to the intended performance of your horse. Horses with poor conformation may be at higher risk of: Injury Harder training Lameness The basic conformation rules allow you to review a horse’s athletic ability for a certain performance.




extension.umn.edu





They all seem a little weak in the hind end but maybe that can be built up with exercise.

The back of the paint seems really long so I would skip that one. It’s hard to tell the exact proportions of the buckskin from the photos (but his colouring is really cute). Based on the photos, I would probably opt for the bay 12 year old of these three. 

Hope the guide with the measurements helps you assess on the ground as photos sometimes don’t show the proportions correctly.


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## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

Poor little fella! That Appy just needs groceries. Zero muscle on his back. Bet he'd grow into that head, he looks younger than six to me. Bless you for going to the kill pen, I couldn't do it. 

You know, I did buy an ugly horse two (maybe 3) summers ago. Much in the same shape as him in the first pic. Big head, uneven throughout whole body, depressed, expressionless. No light of life in his eyes. Thin, muscle wasted. I thought he was physically unable to canter. Pretty much got him out of sad situation with no hope of doing anything with him. 

Now, he is a stunning little bay roan that guests (like the garbage man!) just absolutely love. Even had my neighbor say that he is "the most beautiful horse I've ever seen". And he can totally canter. Like his favorite pastime is galloping around his pasture. I don't know what direction I'll take with him, he has some strange dentition that makes bitting difficult, but just knowing that I changed his life for the better does something for my soul. 

My point is, never discount what good nutrition and proper care can do for a horse--no matter how hopeless!


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

Just curious, are you going to buy a kill pen horse?


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

My Salty Pony said:


> Just curious, are you going to buy a kill pen horse?


(Assuming you’re talking to me)

Yes!


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Bay gelding the best of the 3 nicer looking best put together. Paint is long backed ,weak scrawny hindquarters heavy built front end. Buckskin just mediocre nothing great.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

If it were me, I’d put my bets towards the ugly horse. Before anyone shoots me, I do have a reason.

Yes, he’s in very poor shape. If he lived through getting home and getting groceries put into him, he will be a whole different horse. He also does have a bit younger of a feeling to me, and it is evident why he is in the auction. Someone starved him to death.

Now, those other horses are thin, but they are older and better looking. The buckskin is noticeably starved as well, so maybe it’s all the same, but how did they get there? Middle aged horses who end up in the meat auctions here are broncs or mean or lame. Yet, these have also lacked feeding, so I really have no idea what goes on where the op is.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Knave said:


> If it were me, I’d put my bets towards the ugly horse. Before anyone shoots me, I do have a reason.
> 
> Yes, he’s in very poor shape. If he lived through getting home and getting groceries put into him, he will be a whole different horse. He also does have a bit younger of a feeling to me, and it is evident why he is in the auction. Someone starved him to death.
> 
> Now, those other horses are thin, but they are older and better looking. The buckskin is noticeably starved as well, so maybe it’s all the same, but how did they get there? Middle aged horses who end up in the meat auctions here are broncs or mean or lame. Yet, these have also lacked feeding, so I really have no idea what goes on where the op is.


I will admit it’s tempting. I’m a sucker for the underdogs, although I wish he had a video so I could see how he moves.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Appy sold! Hopefully he went to a good home.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

Just so you know, NONE of those horses are in any danger of going to a plant any time soon. It's a meat industry, not a bone industry. In fact, unless the price on them is a total giveaway, canner buyers won't even look at them.
Just because a horse is in the loose horse yard at a sales yard, does not mean they are going to be bought by a canner buyer.


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## stormfront (Oct 19, 2021)

Of those three, the pics are not ideal for confo ascertainment but I see a decent basic structure on all of them. Flat knees, thick straight cannon bone, decent and strong hock and pastern angles, and so on. Paint looks a bit pained in his first pic but could just be moving when that was shot.

With TLC, some body work and such I wouldn’t turn down any one of them based on confo. Yeah, some long backs, interesting hip angles but nothing extreme, nor anything I’d call a red flag. The real question here is brain and soundness.

Horses tend to end up in these situations for different reasons, usually not great ones. I’ve bailed out two from “kill pens” and one was misrepresented to a dangerous extent. Luckily for her, I didnt _really_ need a riding mule and she is a cherished livestock guardian… So proceed with caution. That said, there can be some real gems and horses who end up here simply because the owner fell on hard times, death in the family so on and so forth. Be prepared to treat respiratory illness (and quarantine), it runs rampant in those yards.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Am I allowed to post YouTube links?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Yes @Nubs.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Apart from the color requiring a bit more maintenance (sunscreen, staining, etc) I like this guy. I don’t see any obvious problems conformationally or otherwise, what do the pros think?


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I am no good at looking for issues but I watched the video many times and feel like it walked kinda off. Maybe? But maybe I am just imagining things.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t know how to judge these starved horses. Why are they all starved? It just isn’t okay!

Now, if I read into what they said, I think that he might blow up when you ask him to go. Yet, I don’t see how they even got on him in the shape he is in! Are they the ones who don’t feed them?


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

I agree with @Knave! Why are they so thin?? And that looked like a baby? Not sure because of how thin and no tail... tail could have been eaten off I guess... but I know stupid of me I sometimes go off on how short the tail is to see the age... except for Apps!! jk


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I just feel like this isn’t what is in a real kill pen. Like @Zimalia22, I don’t think they would touch these horses.

I go to the auction with my father on occasion. The horses that run through are actually kill pen horses. I have never seen a horse in this kind of condition. They are healthy looking animals, and you can see they are lame or old, or you can see they will buck your butt off. They don’t look like this. Not one I’ve ever seen.

When there are cattle that look like that, they sell for $1. One single dollar will bring them home. Not a dollar a pound, a dollar. It is because no one wants their illness or thinks they can bring them back. I imagine a horse would be the same, although like I said, I have never seen a horse in bad condition excepting lameness.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

@Knave @Ib27312

I don’t know how they get so thin! Drives me nuts. Not ALL the horses can come in that thin, can they?!






It’s pretty much impossible to judge this poor guy in his video...but any amount of try is appreciated!


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I looked at their videos. That horse he is on has never been ridden. He is starved. They are all starved near death. There is no way they are coming into this many horses all in the same condition. It’s not realistic.

The first video you showed- you cannot ride that horse. It’s why they didn’t shove someone on him. If it won’t try and kill you for riding it, they are.

Horses in this poor of shape aren’t likely to give much show of life. I am sorry, but I believe they are starving them and then getting by them that way. I think it’s awful.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Knave said:


> I looked at their videos. That horse he is on has never been ridden. He is starved. They are all starved near death. There is no way they are coming into this many horses all in the same condition. It’s not realistic.
> 
> The first video you showed- you cannot ride that horse. It’s why they didn’t shove someone on him. If it won’t try and kill you for riding it, they are.
> 
> Horses in this poor of shape aren’t likely to give much show of life. I am sorry, but I believe they are starving them and then getting by them that way. I think it’s awful.


How horrible. Poor babies...thank you for the insite!


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Nubs said:


> @Knave @Ib27312
> 
> I don’t know how they get so thin! Drives me nuts. Not ALL the horses can come in that thin, can they?!
> 
> ...


What kill pen is this?? Wouldn't buy anything from that kill pen.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Truly, if you do buy something from them, it’s nothing against the horses themselves. I wouldn’t believe a word they said about them though, from age to ability, ignore them.

I don’t know if you could claim one and show up with cash in hand and expect to leave with a horse that may or may not end up suiting you. I think many can come back from being starved and not have permanent issues. I think you would truly be rescuing something from a terrible situation.

A part of me is like, “don’t give them your money!,” and a part of me is like, “give him a shot,” with my bleeding heart. I’m not okay with starving anything, and I would love to see any one of them end up with a better life.

I will say, I wouldn’t expect a horse to come away from them and be anywhere near broke. I would expect to have to start over, and possibly overcome issues. The appy colt he rode- he looks like he was scared and kind of tried to do what he was told. He could be a fine horse in the end, and he could be something that never would calm down after he had some groceries. I don’t know. I would guess he had so little handling that I couldn’t judge any of his actions against him.

It is a tough call. I would definitely not ride anything in the condition they came in until you got them back to healthy. You are looking at several months I would guess. Then you are looking at the time it would take to get him broke. I don’t know if you are a person who does that, and if not you will be putting some money into someone else riding him for another time frame.

I do want to clarify though- there always could be a Diamond in the rough. These horses are not to be judged in their condition.

Would it be easier to do something like adopt a blm horse and pay someone to start it? Heck yes. It would be as cost efficient too, and you’ll probably come out with a sound horse without any negative experiences. Would it be easier to buy a nicely started sound horse? Well, definitely! Yet, that is also not anywhere near cost efficient right now.


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## lb27312 (Aug 25, 2018)

I think if there's a younger one there that you can verify the age that might work if you are dead set on a kill pen rescue?? And take it from there? If that was my option that's that I would do...


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Knave said:


> Truly, if you do buy something from them, it’s nothing against the horses themselves. I wouldn’t believe a word they said about them though, from age to ability, ignore them.
> 
> I don’t know if you could claim one and show up with cash in hand and expect to leave with a horse that may or may not end up suiting you. I think many can come back from being starved and not have permanent issues. I think you would truly be rescuing something from a terrible situation.
> 
> ...


The more difficult it is, the bigger the reward, eh?

I like the appy. I agree that he looks frightened and seems to have no clue what to do!

I found pictures on the Facebook page of teeth and such. His feet suck, and he’s starving to death, but it gives you a better idea.

The cremello looks a bit post legged, and I should probably avoid him anyways based on the cautioning advice I’ve been given here.

























































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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

This is such a sad thread.  How can one place have so many starved horses, they must be starving them so they will seem to be quite and gentle and dont have the energy to do much. I cant event watch the videos, the horses look so sad. I hope this place is not in Texas. And I agree with the ones about the kill pens, they dont have horses that look this bad, some of the sale barns that I knew/know of wont even let you unload horses that look this bad.This is so darn sad.. OK I need to stay away from this thread.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Those horses are thin and underweight but not close to starving to death. Remember large portions of the west had drought and hay prices have increased. While thinner than I would like, they aren't that bad yet. I'm glad they are up for sale because they need new homes. 

This is the rescue I had: (before and after)


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Honestly, I would probably get the appaloosa. He or she seems really good natured to put up with someone riding - probably never been sat on before. A bit more cow hocked then I would like but at least you can see a bit of personality (and self control to not lose it). And very young, which means not ruined by poor previous training.


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## Part-Boarder (Aug 17, 2019)

OMG @4horses your horse was in rough shape and filled out nicely! @Nubs I’m no expert but I agree with the above that the three year old appy could be worth looking at more closely. I checked some of the other videos - really sad, worst was a Percheron for $650 just skin and bones.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Since you are connected with an account on FB there are people who do go out and get from the kill pens and bring them home to put groceries and a new life started for many, there are groups legit that do that already....
Kill buyers are playing on your emotions...
True kill buyers who ship don't ship skinners cause they get paid per pound on the hoof or the truck load needs to meet certain weight... so fatter horses bring higher profit.
You want to buy a rescue, go to the sales and walk past the pens and take hip number of those who interest you...
Sit back and watch how the bidding is done and watch carefully for how a animals price is bid-up when a "sucker" is discovered. Now you _don't _buy a thing that trip, just observe...
You have to know horseflesh and make quick assessment and decisions...and bid with your brain not your heart and when you reach your limit emotionally and $$ you stop and not go further.
The risk is yours no matter which way you proceed, as is....no return, no guarantee of anything.
Now go back another day and again walk the pen, write the numbers and wait to see what is happening at that sale.
Bid with your brain and keep a tight rein on your heart and emotions.

None of those animals though is going far in their condition...they were bought real cheap and a large price increase has been placed on the head and threats of going on the truck made....and playing your emotions has begun. 
🐴.... _jmo.._


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Okay- I did a little bit of looking. This is an article about a horse bought from their place. They say he would have headed to slaughter, and no way could he even physically have made that sort of trip. To those who don’t believe these horses are near starved, here is what I figured. "It took an army" to rescue horse bound for slaughter


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## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

I guess I'm confused. Just because a meat buyer is not purchasing them, that doesn't mean they aren't going to be slaughtered right? For glue, gelatin, dog food etc? Like, I can't imagine the kill buyers being like "let's put a bunch of food into these horses and fatten 'em up before we ship 'em to the processing plant". The outcome is still death even if they aren't going specifically for "meat". Right?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Well @Palfrey, I don’t know about glue and leather and that sort of thing. I do know cows though, and the rule has always been that you cannot starve a living out of a cow. It doesn’t work. So, we do feed up our cows, and the end result is death for many, yes, but there is no money at all in a starved cow.

ETA- so, enough healthy animals are butchered for meat to allow use of other things if they are needed I would guess. The cost of processing an animal for little output would not be effective, so animals without meat are not used for anything.

To be an effective business, you must then produce a product that is making more money than it is costing.

Now, most everyone who does ranch animals, does so in as humane of a fashion as possible. Not only because it is cost effective in the long run, but also because life does matter. A good life is important. Yes, death is an eventual outcome, but it is for all of us. No one should be okay with suffering.

Even if these people have in fact found a way to starve a living out of a horse, I could never stand behind such a lack of empathy. That is why I find it so bothersome.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

3 year old quarter pony. He had stitches in one shoulder but appears sound...probably a red flag but something about him I really like.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I still can’t judge a starved horse well, but I do hope that whatever you buy you start a journal about him/her. I will be routing for you.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Knave said:


> I still can’t judge a starved horse well, but I do hope that whatever you buy you start a journal about him/her. I will be routing for you.


I appreciate it, thanks!


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

What people tend to forget is canner buyers are also horse traders. If they can get a good buy on a good horse, they will buy it and resell it. 
The ones that play on emotions are the "rescues". Haven't seen one yet that didn't set back and cry "The trucks are coming!". 
When you go to a horse sale, you are not "rescuing" a horse, you're buying a horse. You're not "paying the bail", you're simply buying a horse. Its when you go to a "rescue" that they change the terminology to play on your emotions, "paying the bail", "rescuing the horse", etc. 

If you go to a sale and want to buy a horse out of the loose horse pen, then buy one. Forget the nonsense that you are "rescuing" it. You are merely buying a loose horse. 

Heres a fact about canner buyers, unless they have a lot of cheap pasture available, they are not going to be bidding on the horses shown here. Not to mention, there are classes of horses canner buyers won't buy anyway! 
They will not buy:
stallions
mares obviously in foal
foals
weaners
yearlings
lame horses, horses must walk out of the trucks at the plants on all 4 legs. No 3 legged ones will be bought.
sick horses
thin horses
ponies

A #1 canner is typically a horse over the age of 5, and over 1000 pds. The heavier the horse, the better. 
None of the horses shown in this thread would be purchased by a canner buyer. They are all too thin. 
Those horses shown are a good reason why most sales now days will pre approve all horses before they are allowed into the sale.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Yes that is a good point. It is unlikely these will sell for meat. The best meat comes from younger, fat animals. Meat buyers don't want starved horses. Drafts are often at risk of slaughter because of their large body size. Second to that- anything large, healthy, and fat.


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## PresleysMom (Nov 21, 2017)

These kill pen lots are playing on the emotions of buyers, pushing them to buy the horse or it will ship to slaughter. What's worse is the people posting, "PLEASE SOMEBODY BUY THIS POOR HORSE BEFORE IT SHIPS!!!!" People fall for it again and again. And what happens? Buyers feel bad for the animal, so someone buys it at probably twice what the lot owner paid for the horse at auction. He takes that money and goes to auctions to buy more horses in this condition (and the occasional decent looking horse that he thinks he can triple the price on his website) so he can double the price on them and sell to people who feel badly for the horses. The kill buyers will get their trucks filled, but never by horses the public sees on their sites. If the lot doesn't sell this particular horse, the truck does come for it, however, it gets shipped to another kill pen lot and put on THEIR website which is often why these horses lose weight -- not only inadequate feed, but tons of stress in the process of being moved several times to other lots to be sold to soft-hearted buyers. Buying from kill pen lots are, in effect, filling up the slaughter trucks. If you want to take a chance, horselovinguy has a great way to do it -- buy from the auction yourself.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Not one horse pictured on here is worth buying. Skinny big headed someone else's throw away garbage. Most of the older ones are probably broncs that will get you hurt.

Guaranteed they'll be sick an probably lame unfixable junk horses. Wouldn't touch any of them.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

I've known several canner buyers, and not one of them is out there playing on your emotions. The ones that do that are the so called "rescues"! I have yet to see a legitimate one. 
Every canner buyer I know or have known, was also a horse trader. They all have had places where people would bring in horses they no longer wanted, and needed to sell. The buyer will give them what they feel the horse is worth. People are also welcomed to come in, look at the horses, and choose one if they desire. What they are NOT short on, is feed! Every buyer that I've been ot their place, their mangers are all full to overflowing. Its NOT the canner buyers that are shorting horses! Thats the general public! Oh I know, not what you want to hear, but it is the truth. There are those that buy a horse, stick them out in the "back acre" and figure the kids will take care of them. But the kids aren't interested, so no one takes care of it. Then they wake up one day, horse is thin, not been cared for, or rode in several years, so they haul it to a sale and dump it. Instant loose pen horse. 

If you take the time to educate yourself on what all a horse goes thru before it can set foot on a canner truck, you'll see where the problem is. It's NOT the canner buyer!


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

I’m still looking other places for a horse, but it’s very difficult to find one that hasn’t been started under saddle at a decent price, in any state.

I don’t want somebody’s half finished project as I would really rather have it started it the way I want it done and these sales barns/kill pens/auctions have horses like that.

I steer clear of rescues because if I’m going to own a horse, I’m going to OWN it, not just pay the expenses. All that paperwork and those lengthy contracts make me uncomfortable.

Thanks for all your opinions!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree with @Knave that it would be very difficult to assess and buy a horse in these conditions. An issue I have is that there probably are some mixed in that would end up sound and usable. Unfortunately, this seems to be a place that is attempting to sell horses that can't even be sold to meat buyers. It would be easy for unfed horses to end up in such poor health, but my eye keeps seeing problems with some of the horses that make me suspect many have serious physical problems. It is difficult to tell, but I kept thinking I saw some stifle popping on the Haflinger cross.

My intuition is that these people are scammers, and that they are trying to find a way to make money by turning over horses that people gave away in order to save the cost of euthanasia. My first thought is that the owners of many of these horses had them fail at a trainer's or had a vet tell them about a problem that was going to cost money, so they dumped them. Now that problem could be as small as ulcers. Or it could be as bad as suspected intestinal tumors, navicular, locking stifles, kissing spines, and other problems that are expensive to manage even in a pasture pet. My suspicion is that if you could go run your hands over the horses, you'd find ringbone, old tendon injuries, blindness, and other problems.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Why have you not looked at the mustangs then if you truly want untouched, they are available.
Not sure how it works now but it had been a enclosed trailer, high sides and closed up rear entry door so no crawling out.
Paddock at one time specified 6' high fence so no jumping out once the animal gets to you....
You are responsible for getting unloaded and in the pen on your own, especially if you have your own trailer.
Technically you not own for think a year, but when you take on a mustang not sure I've ever heard of one being taken away...

There are people who take on and get some basic ground handling on the animals and that's it...
They don't charge much actually and the animals have had some human interaction so they are not so terrified.
Kept in captivity with decent food offered and depending the situation some have vet care and farrier work done too...
For someone who wants a clean slate, might be something to think about.
Some 'stangs are scraggly and ugly, many others are good sized, heavy bone and nice to look at in their yet rough stage, by the time they have a human of their own...gorgeous.
It is said they are savvy and smart, trusting some and once you earn that they will do anything for you.. IDK.
But so many of what you show....I would rather save a 'stang than put $$ in some dealers hand who is playing my emotions...
🐴...


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

horselovinguy said:


> Why have you not looked at the mustangs then if you truly want untouched, they are available.
> Not sure how it works now but it had been a enclosed trailer, high sides and closed up rear entry door so no crawling out.
> Paddock at one time specified 6' high fence so no jumping out once the animal gets to you....
> You are responsible for getting unloaded and in the pen on your own, especially if you have your own trailer.
> ...


I did seriously look into getting a mustang, but unfortunately I’m not setup for one. Yet...

I would certainly love one eventually!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

If you consider a 'stang who has been domesticated _a bit...._
With a bit of handling already done you might not need to have different facilities than what you do...
One thought though is no way no how would electric fence be used cause they are going to hit it hard, rip it down and go through it if that is all it is for fencing...

I'm just not seeing the attraction to the kill-pen animals when all are calmly standing their with halters hanging on their heads and being walked around calm as can be telling you either very tranq'd or been handled more than just a bit...
10 ,12 and 13 year old horses you showed...each of them had saddle pad marks so those are all not a work in progress of unhandled...or are you just using those for learning what to look for or avoid but not seriously considering those specific animals? 

You're looking at the wrong ages if you want unhandled unless you look at 'stangs....and forget the kill-pens.
The true unhandled, they loaded and gone down the road already like cattle...down a chute and in the trailer they go, no handling, no injuries to humans..
I would be watching for the BLM sales that travel or you pick off their website making arrangements to have dleivered if you're not able to go get and haul home...
🐴...


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Nubs said:


> I’m still looking other places for a horse, but it’s very difficult to find one that hasn’t been started under saddle at a decent price, in any state.
> 
> I don’t want somebody’s half finished project as I would really rather have it started it the way I want it done and these sales barns/kill pens/auctions have horses like that.
> 
> ...


I know horses are a bit spendy right now but I bet you could still go to an auction and pick up a weanling or yearling for cheap. Especially one that needed a little extra TLC. In the meantime study up on conformation and learn to look beyond the outside of the horse and look instead at its bone structure.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

As far as the mustang idea goes- what are the rules regarding a colt who comes from a tip trainer? I might look into that if I were you. The rules change as the animal becomes halter broke if I understand. I don’t know if it is still an adoption or if it becomes an outright sale, but I believe it would still require the year and that the horse would not be eligible for the adoption incentive.

I think though, like @JCnGrace mentioned, with some looking you may be able to find a cheaper weanling or yearling.

That, or jump on one of these horses, but do expect decent recovery time.


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## Melli (12 mo ago)

Nubs said:


> Hi!
> 
> I’m not an expert on conformation, and would love some help so I that I don’t buy anything with huge flaws that I might miss.
> 
> ...





Nubs said:


> Hi!
> 
> I’m not an expert on conformation, and would love some help so I that I don’t buy anything with huge flaws that I might miss.
> 
> ...


he looks like he has been trough the ringer . No major faults but pot belly due to wrong feed or worms . I would give this guy a chance . He will look pretty if someone takes proper care of him . He has a beautiful coat color


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Opinions on this guy?


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

He looks nice. Is his right hock swollen? It may just be the panels behind him.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

4horses said:


> He looks nice. Is his right hock swollen? It may just be the panels behind him.


I’ll take a closer look, thanks!

Do his pasterns look short to you, or is it just Me?


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

Looks to just be the panel. Doesn’t look odd at any other point in the vid.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

His pasterns are a bit straighter than I would appreciate...
It is said straight pastern is a harder ride, as in not smooth but jack-hammerish.
I do _*not*_ like his hind-end with how his legs are hock to hoof.
He is camped under himself which for some is a sign of sore. In some animals is desirable for getting down and fleet of foot think I've read, like in cutting horses.

For me, if I was to take a weighted string and drop it from the point of the back of their butt to the ground, a good leg stance would touch from hock to ground all the way....this horse can not do that.
Front legs are also not set on the corners of the body, but slightly back and then again, not straight down either front cannon bone nor back of the leg because the leg is set back under the horse.
These are not conformation pictures just snap-shots so nothing is posed...something to think about cause these can actually speak volumes of how the horse is feeling.
Again, to me the head is coarse looking...big and over-sized.... I would love to know what all of the animals you showed are crossed with cause it is a dominant trait in every animal you've presented.
This guy _is_ cute, has a bit of the longer back and set back SI joint again...
He has though that leg stance and straighter pastern angle seen in these pictures not sure matches his shoulder angle. To many glaring shadows in this picture. 
A in person evaluation if you are seriously ready to buy...but he if from the "kill-pen" was cheap to buy, then had his price at least doubled and again put for sale as you see him....cause that is how it is done...and play the emotions game to "rescuers".
🐴...


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

@horselovinguy 

Its a myth that cutting people like horses that are sickle hocked. The more correct the hocks, the better. You are right, sickle hocked horses do get sore. That's where you start seeing injections and other such stuff. Just be aware, any time you inject a hock, you are breaking that capsule, not a good thing.

The more correct the hocks the better.


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

This guy is an OTTB. (Not a kill pen horse) The angle is difficult, but I feel his hooves lack heel. Other then that he looks good to me. Thoughts?


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## TWLover (Jan 22, 2014)

Avna said:


> This is a giveaway type of horse.


Every horse deserves kindness and love! Would you be passed up?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t see anything glaringly wrong with him. Maybe he needs a little groceries. I don’t see too low of heels; I actually like the looks of his feet from these pictures.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

@Nubs hasn't been on this thread since 11/16/2022....
Hopefully a update on what is happening, a horse found or not, status of the search and that all is good can be heard of.
Nubs ???
🐴...


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## Nubs (Jul 25, 2019)

No horse yet. 

Transport prices jumped up due to gas, leaving me unable to comfortably afford it...still looking, but local pickings are slim.


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## Firstdownkiller (8 mo ago)

Nubs said:


> He looks wonky to me too, but I can’t figure out what it is! Unless its everything...lol


😂
Definitely not an expert myself, but I am trying to learn more about conformation as well... 
I personally am not a big fan of his neck, it doesn't tie together well. His front pasterns also look so-so - they are definitely not straight. But I guess it depends what you want to do with him; trail riding and as a pleasure horse, he will probably work out fine. I've had horses with pretty horrible conformation that lasted many years for trail riding. As a performance horse, I would _definitely _pass. I'm a barrel racer, and I would _not _buy that horse for an athletic event. Just by two cents


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