# Navicular Dilemmas...



## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

So here is the problem…:

A couple years ago I had my vet x-ray my mare, Cat, when she randomly went lame in her front leg. It ended up just being from a hot nail, but my vet coincidentally found navicular changes in the x-ray. He told me that the changes were not significant enough to worry about, but to keep them in mind if she went lame in the next few years. 

Well I had the vet out last Saturday to do shots and had her re-x-ray Cat to see how/ if the changes were progressing. Come to find out, they ended up having gotten a lot worse since the last x-rays. The vet had us lunge Cat to check for lameness, and she ended up being lame on her left front leg. (She had been lame for the past few weeks, but I thought that it was from an old abscess that had grown out and was making her hoof crack.)

Anyway, between the x-rays, Cat being lame (as well as her stout yet large stature all on very small feet (size00 shoes)..) my vet decided to go ahead and treat her for navicular. My vet told me to have the farrier to put egg-bar type of shoes on her and to give her an Aspirin tablet (60grains) once a day, and 15 Isoxsuprine Hydrochloride, USP (20mg) tablets twice a day for a month and then once a day after that. 


My farrier came out today to look at her. He ended up putting on heartbar shoes and putting equipack in the soles of her two fronts. He told me that if he owned Cat, that he would just see how the heartbars helped her and stop using the Isoxsuprine and Aspirin for the time being. He said that he’s dealt with many navicular horses before, and he thinks that the vet is just going to try and get as much money as they can before we eventually end up having to denerve her. He said that he knows many top roping and cutting horses that are in their mid twenties and have navicular, and that their owners just put these types of shoes on them and give them Bute every day to keep away the pain. He recommended trying this with Cathorse for as long as possible and then consider denerving her when the shoes and then Bute (if necessary) aren’t enough anymore… Any thoughts on this approach?

What would you guys do? I would really appreciate any advice you guys may have on which route to try. I’m personally thinking that I’ll see how she does with these new shoes and wean her off of the Isoxsuprine and aspirin just to see if the shoes alone are enough for her right now. If she shows up lame again, I’ll put her back on the Isoxsuprine and aspirin and just leave her on it until she gets ouchy again and then call the vet back out…Does this sound like a reasonable plan of attack? 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I’ve looked through navicular threads on here and other sources online, but it's still stressing me out. I just want Cat to be as sound and pain free for as long as possible… I should be getting x-rays on a CD in the mail soon too, so I’ll post them when I can. I’ll also post pictures of her new shoes and the equipack if you guys want... I’m just going to have to get my sister to help since I only have one useable arm right now from shoulder surgery a few weeks ago.

Thanks so much!!


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## ausfarrier (Apr 24, 2010)

The position of the shoe is more important than the shoe itself. Would love to see the pictures. I am surprised that the farrier would tell you not to do what the vet has suggested. Maybe he should have talked to the vet first.

I would suggest that you talk to the vet and ask about the long term effects of the medication. You may find that they compliment mechanical support nicely.

Richard
http://australianfarrier.com


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If I had to choose who's advice to take between a vet and a certified journeyman farrier I would choose the farrier every time (unless the vet specialized in hooves). The farrier has only one part of one species to learn about and that is all he does. Most vets have to work on a horses feet and a cows stomach and a parakeets beak and a cats tail so they may not be as experienced with hoof treatments and will use whatever they remember from vet school. Anybody that has been to college for anything knows how prepared you really are for the work you have spent years training for.

Also if you are going to eventually need to denerve the horse you had just as well do it now and keep the horse comfortable. I know a few denerved horses (i own one) and I haven't seen that any of them stumble any more than any other horse.


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

ausfarrier said:


> The position of the shoe is more important than the shoe itself. Would love to see the pictures. I am surprised that the farrier would tell you not to do what the vet has suggested. Maybe he should have talked to the vet first.
> 
> I would suggest that you talk to the vet and ask about the long term effects of the medication. You may find that they compliment mechanical support nicely.
> 
> ...



I'm planning on getting pictures tomorrow. Any particular angles that are better than others for analyzing this type of thing?

Thanks again!


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## orin (Jul 22, 2009)

i have had alot of experience with navicular with one of my horses. have tried medicating the coffin joint, remedial shoeing. we are now taking the shoes off ans trying her barefoot to see if she goes sound.
de-nerving wasnt an option that we thought would bw suitable for my pony.
is your horse insured? if so youd be better off doing all the expensive stuff now and letting the insurance pay


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

Okay here are a ton of pictures. Let me know if I need to take any different ones..

(Btw, the farrier flattened out the toe of her shoes so instead of them being circular, they are straight. He said it had something to do about the breakover but I didn't ask what he was referring to exactly or why he did it.. He also wants to try her in a 000 shoe next time. This is a 00, but he didn't have any smaller shoes on him and just filed the sides and toes of these to fit her properly.)

Thanks!


Cat (just for a body reference... sorry for the terrible lighting)









Left side view of legs































Front view (She is slightly pigeon-toed in the front and cow hocked in the back)


















(Terrible picture really, but it gives you an idea of her legs from the front on)









Back view:









Left fore back view:









Left Sole: (Pardon the dirt.. for some reason when he shaped the shoe to fit, the nail holes closed up. I didn't know that the nails were sticking out of the sole like that though until he left... is this something I need to be worried about?)




























Right fore back view:









Right sole:


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

orin said:


> i have had alot of experience with navicular with one of my horses. have tried medicating the coffin joint, remedial shoeing. we are now taking the shoes off ans trying her barefoot to see if she goes sound.
> de-nerving wasnt an option that we thought would bw suitable for my pony.
> is your horse insured? if so youd be better off doing all the expensive stuff now and letting the insurance pay


We don't have insurance on her and no insurance company is going to insure her now with all of her issues...


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Wow. This really REALLY sucks for you.  

How much has the coffin bone rotated?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The part I have a problem with is the nails not set in the shoe and the fact that he wants to go to a 000 shoe. I think the shoe is the right size and the horse certainly doesn't need her foot restricted by a smaller shoe. Leaving the nail heads out is going to make the shoe more likely to come off and as you can see on some of your pictures it causes the shoe to be unbalanced on the concrete. That may not matter for alot of horses but if your horse stands on cement or hard ground alot then it may cause discomfort. It also shows a certain amount of sloppiness and inattention to detail. If I had nailed that shoe on and found that the nail holes had smashed in I would have pulled it off and fixed it.


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> The part I have a problem with is the nails not set in the shoe and the fact that he wants to go to a 000 shoe. I think the shoe is the right size and the horse certainly doesn't need her foot restricted by a smaller shoe. Leaving the nail heads out is going to make the shoe more likely to come off and as you can see on some of your pictures it causes the shoe to be unbalanced on the concrete. That may not matter for alot of horses but if your horse stands on cement or hard ground alot then it may cause discomfort. It also shows a certain amount of sloppiness and inattention to detail. If I had nailed that shoe on and found that the nail holes had smashed in I would have pulled it off and fixed it.


Yeah I just emailed my farrier about the nails sticking out like that and attached some pictures for him to see. I hadn't realized that they were sticking out like that until he had already left.. 

I may be looking into calling my vet and seeing what farrier she recommends I try so that they can work together in to trying to get Cat as comfortable as possible instead of giving me conflicting advice. My current farrier is moving anyway in August and is mentoring another farrier (who did Cat yesterday with the other farrier's guidance) into taking over his clients when he moves. I just need to find a farrier that is super well qualified in dealing with these types of things and is willing to work with the vet instead of confusing me further with the conflicting advice. I really like my farrier and know that he is just trying to help me out... but I just don't know what to do...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Try this link to find a CERTIFIED farrier. http://www.americanfarriers.org/find_a_farrier/index.php


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Try this link to find a CERTIFIED farrier. http://www.americanfarriers.org/find_a_farrier/index.php


My farrier was actually on that list.... He didn't have a Certification level though. It was just blank. Should I try another one from the list or just ask my vet whom she would recommend?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Try one that has a certification level listed. I have a good friend that is an AFA journeyman farrier and he would never have left a shoe looking like that. They have extensive testing and continuing education to become a journeyman.


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Try one that has a certification level listed. I have a good friend that is an AFA journeyman farrier and he would never have left a shoe looking like that. They have extensive testing and continuing education to become a journeyman.


Yeah I just looked up the certification levels right before you posted. There is a Certified Journeyman Farrier in my area that I may try next time. If my current farrier isn't concerned with the nails, I'm going to switch farriers. If he sees things wrong with the shoes, then he will come back and fix them. (For $200 I spent on these shoes, I would hope that he would do them correctly...)


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## orin (Jul 22, 2009)

these are the shoes that my mare was fitted with for her navicular:


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## pieinthesky (Mar 12, 2010)

You could try boots or glue ons as another option if the shoes dont help alleviate discomfort. 

Isox is great to try, some horses seem to respond others dont. The best place to start is a great farrier. My farrier came out to meet my vet, and the talked about my mare. We showed the farrier all the radiographs and they started formulating a treatment plan. A farrier should know to never openly dispute what your vet says, and tell their client not to listen to the vet, if so it should be a red flag to get a new farrier. AFA means squat. Ive found some certified ones who were aweful. I use who my vet, or friends' give good reviews about.

I used a wedge and egg bar for a while, and tried equipack, but in the end we ended up taking her shoes off. Shes had two trims since, and looks better then she did with shoes on. It takes time and patience, just because something doesnt work right away doesnt mean you have a bad farrier. 

Also those nails are very crappy, and you are missing one on the (out?)side. Those shoes are a little to wide for my liking. I would use bell boots with them just to be safe.


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## mzfhredi (May 10, 2010)

I own a retired rope horse and he is only 14yo. I bought him for my birthday this march(58th) and was told he had "just pulled a muscle". Well when I got him home to my knowledgeable sister she noticed it was both his front legs. Navicular horses generally walk toe first and extend one or both legs out when standing. He was pretty stiff! My farrier put an eggbutt shoe (they tend to wear the toes down faster with navicular)with a high back on them. My sister started him on 3oz Turmeric powder mixed with 2lbs beet pulp and vegetable oil covering it daily. I rode him every day at a slow walk for about 15 minutes for exercise. Today you wouldn't even know he has navicular most of the time. He can pass all the other horses at a walk! When its a cold day and you can tell he is in a lil pain my sis crushes a 500mg aspirin and mixes with his grain. Before he would either lay down or stand in one place not wanting to move. He comes up to me now in the pasture Thank God for a sister like mine!


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## pieinthesky (Mar 12, 2010)

navicular cannot be diagnosed with out x-rays and cant be done by a farrier. If I horse becomes sound it dosent truely have navicular as navicular wont reverse, it can only stabilize or get worse. 

The tell tale signs are toe first landing, and a very bad turn radius in the fronts.


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## mzfhredi (May 10, 2010)

You're right. When he turns he 'crosses over' with his front legs and takes really small choppy baby steps to turn and sometimes you think he is going to fall. So I try and turn him in really wide turns. I have decided to only use him for the young children who don't weigh so much and only want to ride 15 or 20 minutes at a time. He is WONDERFUL with the children so he was worth every penny to me.


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

mzfhredi said:


> You're right. When he turns he 'crosses over' with his front legs and takes really small choppy baby steps to turn and sometimes you think he is going to fall. So I try and turn him in really wide turns. I have decided to only use him for the young children who don't weigh so much and only want to ride 15 or 20 minutes at a time. He is WONDERFUL with the children so he was worth every penny to me.


That is pretty much my goal with Cat now that she has been diagnosed. I'm taking her and my other mare (throughbred/ percheron 6yo) up to teach riding lessons with me at a camp I work at in the summer. She would pretty much just be doing walk and maybe some light trotting (depending how she is feeling). Once camp is over in August, it would be nice to keep her sound enough just for an easy trailride or two around the pasture. I don't have any problem with keeping her work load decreased since I can ride my other mare, I just want to keep her as sound and happy as I can.

btw, my (new.. the one my old/ moving farrier is mentoring)farrier called this morning about the nails sticking out of the sole. He said that when he reshaped the shoe, the nail holes closed up and although he tried to open them up, that he was unable to all the way. He said that the shoe is tight on her foot though and to not worry about it coming off (especially since we have her in bell boots that are fitted properly and touch the ground in the back). He said that the nails were a lot softer of a metal than the shoe and would wear down pretty quickly so that the shoe would be flat. He told me to keep watching her and if the nails were affecting her movement, that he would come back out and file them down. He also asked if I was planning on having the vet out again (sounding like he wanted to talk with the vet about Cat). I told him no, but that the xrays still hadn't come in the mail, and I would let him see them as soon as possible. I'm thinking that once I have the x-rays, I'll give him my vets cell phone and office phone number and let them discuss what's going on and any types of treatment options that Cat has available. I'm just really glad that the new farrier is more willing to work with what the vet has to say than the old farrier and is willing to look at other options other than heartbars... so now we will just see what happens when the x-rays come in...

Thanks again everyone!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

He is selling you a bill of goods about the nail holes. I'm sure he has a tool in his box called a pritchell that is used for opening nail holes. With a pritchell, an anvil and a shaping hammer I could make a hole big enough to put your little finger through. What happened is that he forgot to reopen the holes until he had driven the nail into the hoof and he either didn't care or he didn't want to admit his mistake. He still thinks it's okay and he is trying to make you believe it as well. Factoring in all that I would find a new farrier and if he ask I would tell him exactly why.


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## Ridehorses99 (Dec 23, 2009)

So, it's been very interesting reading this about navicular. My friend's horse was diagnosed with navicular over a year ago. She had just purchased him, he passed his pre-purchase exam, was not lame, and my friend took him to get an adjustment as he seemed a little out in his hips (he would camp out a little when he was resting). The chiropractor suggested my friend have a vet look at him because he thought there might be a slight issue with his hocks. Well, the vet comes back and says he has navicular. After $200 special shoes and lots of supplements (oh, and he was never lame a single day throughout this entire process), the vet is now saying he is much better and OK to ride. My trainer and I talked my friend into getting a second opinion so she took the x-rays to another vet clinic and the the vet's first response was, "I would not have diagnosed navicular from looking at these x-rays" although he did say he wouldn't completely rule it out from looking at them. It is now a year after his original diagnosis and my friend has spend thousands of $ on x-rays, shoes and supplements. The horse never exhibited any signs of navicular, was never lame, would run and buck in the pasture like any other 6 year old gelding, and quit camping out after the chiropractic adjustment. Does anybody else think my friend may have been taken advantage of? Does the horse sound like he has navicular? She is riding him almost every day now and he has absolutely no problems and no lameness.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

My best advice its to get those shoes off and find a good barefoot trimmer.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Appyt said:


> My best advice its to get those shoes off and find a good barefoot trimmer.


That says alot about your best advice. Horses with navicular need a little bit of special care and extra support of the hooves. You can't get that without shoeing. BAREFOOT IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING. Why make the horse suffer while you try to get the feet to "toughen up". If it were my horse I would haul it to a vet and get it denerved tommorow. Then I would find a really good farrier to put some corrective shoes on him to prevent as much damage as possible.


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> He is selling you a bill of goods about the nail holes. I'm sure he has a tool in his box called a pritchell that is used for opening nail holes. With a pritchell, an anvil and a shaping hammer I could make a hole big enough to put your little finger through. What happened is that he forgot to reopen the holes until he had driven the nail into the hoof and he either didn't care or he didn't want to admit his mistake. He still thinks it's okay and he is trying to make you believe it as well. Factoring in all that I would find a new farrier and if he ask I would tell him exactly why.


He did all of that. He got this thing out when the shoe was hot and tried to open the holes back up with his hammer and this spike looking thing (yeah, I don't know the proper terminology at all, but I'm guessing it's the same thing you were saying) and hit the spike with his hammer to open up the holes. And he did open them back up, but apparently not enough...

I may give this guy one more try and then reassess... I'm going to see if we can maybe put eggbars on her this time and just see how she does with them instead. But this time I'm going to have him call the vet and talk with her so that they can figure out a plan of attack for Cat. Depending how he does this next time, I will keep using him or just use the other guy in my area who is a CJF.. Honestly I probably will end up just switching to Dave Purves (the CJF), but I'm on the fence about it right now.



Appyt said:


> My best advice its to get those shoes off and find a good barefoot trimmer.


Umm no... That is the absolute last thing I would do for this mare. She went lame when she WAS barefoot..... Sorry


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

catandminot said:


> Yeah I just looked up the certification levels right before you posted. There is a Certified Journeyman Farrier in my area that I may try next time. If my current farrier isn't concerned with the nails, I'm going to switch farriers. If he sees things wrong with the shoes, then he will come back and fix them. (For $200 I spent on these shoes, I would hope that he would do them correctly...)


It also looks like her toe stick out to far in front of the shoe. I do not agree with his comment taht teh vet is trying to make money off of asperin as I would think bute is more expensive and not good for a horse to have every day.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm sorry too. Done correctly barefoot can and does help a multitude of hoof problems that shoes only mask. Trimmed wrong does no good, thus the missundstanding of what barefoot trimming can accomplish. I happen to personally know a great barefoot trimmer who has helped horses with diagnosed Navicular(by an Equine specialist), rehabbed founder cases as well as keeping my mare sound when she had a life threatening lower leg/hoof injury. 

To each his own tho.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> That says alot about your best advice. Horses with navicular need a little bit of special care and extra support of the hooves. You can't get that without shoeing. BAREFOOT IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING. Why make the horse suffer while you try to get the feet to "toughen up". If it were my horse I would haul it to a vet and get it denerved tommorow. Then I would find a really good farrier to put some corrective shoes on him to prevent as much damage as possible.


 Denerving should be a last resort. A local Vet suggests denerving while the other vet in his office came from Texas and he said they got 500 cases of vavicular and only denerved 1 of those. To many misdiagnosed cases to run off and go denerve at the drop of a hat.


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> Denerving should be a last resort. A local Vet suggests denerving while the other vet in his office came from Texas and he said they got 500 cases of navicular and only denerved 1 of those. To many misdiagnosed cases to run off and go denerve at the drop of a hat.


Yeah I honestly would put her down before denerve her.. Denerving has too many risks for me personally for the high cost involved.. That's why I'm looking at any alternatives that are out there besides barefoot. I'm very skeptical on using the natural barefoot trimming method on Cat. I have personally met Pete Ramey a couple years ago when he was trimming at a barn I used to work at. He ended up training my old boss's husband to trim hooves using his "natural method", and I have not been very impressed with his work with the horses at this same barn now..


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## mzfhredi (May 10, 2010)

According to Ontarios Factsheet on hoof care:
Quote:"
*Navicular Disease*

Navicular disease is lameness of the front feet caused by injury to the navicular bone. It is a very common lameness, particularly in breeds which have genetic defects in conforma-tion. Defects in conformation such as upright pasterns and straight shoulders and/or small feet impair the shock absorb-ing mechanisms of the front legs and predispose the horse to navicular disease. Similarly, heavy use on hard ground will increase the probability of navicular disease. Affected horses are usually lame in both front feet. Because of the pain they will alternately "point" or advance one front foot at a time to remove the weight from it and thus reduce the pain. In the early stages of the disease, resting the horse can make the symptoms disappear, but when returned to work the horse will soon become lame. Eventually, the affected foot or feet will become smaller than normal, the walls steeper, the heels contracted and the frog shrunken because the horse will attempt to reduce the pain by landing toe first rather than heel first as he moves. Corrective hoeing, pain killers and neurec-tomy (cutting the nerves to the back surface of the foot) can prolong the useful lifespan of the horse. Accurate diagnosis and treatment of navicular disease requires radiographic examination of the navicular bone in the horse's hoof, but at present there is no known cure for the condition."
That article was written in 1988 and last reviewed in 1997


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

I agree with everyone about the farrier, you want to make sure the farrier knows what they are doing so that your horse is more comfortable for the long run, not just for this year. I also have experience with a horse with navicular and it doesn't really have to be an issue if you manage it right. I used to care for/ride a horse (mahogany rush...he's on my profile) that was over 25 years old, and had navicular since he was 15. I was able to show him on the flat with NO bute or other medications and still came out at least reserve high point each time. I heard that he wasn't put down until he was over 30 and that was because of a problem with his heart, not the navicular.

Our farrier actually let his heels get a little longer so that his navicular bone wouldn't get as much concussion (this takes a month or so for the horse to get used to the new angle). HE had the eggbar shoes and full pads with silicone foam under them. He had some dressage experience under his belt so we just really kept him working off his hind as much as possible..this can take time to teach but I think it really helps a horse with navicular a lot. We also did extra long warm ups and cool downs. About 15-20 minutes walking, then about half hour jog/trot and THEN we would work out. Then another half hour or so of walking to cool back down. It was really time consuming but it seemed to help him.

We also cut out all strenuous activities such as jumping, barrel racing, etc. In the end his owner had him a very long time, most of which he showed no sign of being lame.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

catandminot said:


> Yeah I honestly would put her down before denerve her.. Denerving has too many risks for me personally for the high cost involved.


What risks are those?


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> What risks are those?


Once the horse is nerved, the horse isn't able to feel it's foot. So if a problem ever arose, say an abscess, I would never know. She is so prone to hurting herself anyway, that I wouldn't take the risk of not knowing when something is wrong. Also since the horse can't feel it's foot, they could trip anytime and I definitely wouldn't want to be riding her if and when it happens. And if I have to repeat the extremely painful surgery in 2 years when the nerve tries to heal itself and fuses back together, all of the recuperation, pain for Cat, time, and money from the last one would have just gone down the drain. 

It's just one of those options that I don't want to have to take if at all possible...


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

catandminot said:


> Once the horse is nerved, the horse isn't able to feel it's foot. So if a problem ever arose, say an abscess, I would never know. She is so prone to hurting herself anyway, that I wouldn't take the risk of not knowing when something is wrong. Also since the horse can't feel it's foot, they could trip anytime and I definitely wouldn't want to be riding her if and when it happens. And if I have to repeat the extremely painful surgery in 2 years when the nerve tries to heal itself and fuses back together, all of the recuperation, pain for Cat, time, and money from the last one would have just gone down the drain.
> 
> It's just one of those options that I don't want to have to take if at all possible...


The horse I wrote about was nerved...and only once as he never seemed to be in pain again so we didn't keep doing it. He never had a problem tripping or hurting himself. Usually if you nerve a horse you pretty much MUST have shoes with pads as the pads help protect the sole of the foot as well as relieve the shock. And it DOES NOT make the WHOLE foot go numb, just basically around the navicular bone/heel area. Sort of like when the dentist numbs one of your teeth, your whole mouth doesn't go numb, just the nerves that the Novocaine affected. This is a misconception that most people have.

Also, if you start walking the horse as soon as the vet tells you and for as long each day, etc...pretty much follow vets orders they re-learn their feet and don't really stumble. It's if you don't get them out and walking that there is an issue. Sort of like physical therapy. Just think, there are many people with prosthetic legs that run marathons...they clearly can't feel their feet but through use they have learned to control that leg and run with it without stumbling. Animals have the same ability.

Mo was only nerved 1 time......that's all it seemed to take and he had not only many healthy riding years later....he still excelled in the show ring. I know nerving is scary, but it doesn't have to be and you can have your friend around for many more painless years. I'm not trying to push you into it or anything, I am just trying to help relieve some fears you may have and encourage you to research it a bit.

I just read Cat's profile on your page and it says she's 10... that is still pretty young.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I don't know if your vet has talked to you about joint injections - but they are a good way to manage navicular. There are a few older schoolmaster types in my area with navicular, and that is how they are managed along with Legend once a month to keep everything lubricated.
The Asprin as an anti-inflammatory is an excellent way to treat flare ups. As long as you aren't planning on competing Asprin once daily just during her flare ups is going to keep her a lot more comfortable.
Cold hosing every day after you ride can also really help.
Isoxsuprine Hydrochloride is thought to increase blood flow to the hoof and help it grow better, but there has been limited success with it and honestly I think you're just putting money down your horse's throat giving it this stuff. I don't know of any navicular horses in my area, on my show circuit that are on this.

So the shoeing maintenance, the joint injections (probably once or twice a year), cold hosing daily and Asprin for flare ups should keep her going. Add in Legend once a month when/if that stops working so well. Before you look at nerving (which is the "last chance" thing with navicular), I would look at Tildren. A lot of jumpers in my area inject this before show season to give their horses a boost. It increases bone density, no one really knows how it works, and it also seems to help navicular horses quite substantially. It is about $800 for one treatment though. It is definitely a better option before nerving and if it works once, it will work again and again if you really want to stay away from nerving your horse. Nerving ultimately will be less expensive though.

So, there's some more options and that's how the Navicular horses I know are treated. Good luck!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> That says alot about your best advice. Horses with navicular need a little bit of special care and extra support of the hooves. You can't get that without shoeing. BAREFOOT IS NOT THE ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING. Why make the horse suffer while you try to get the feet to "toughen up".


Just scanned this thread & surprised that AppyT's the only one to mention a possible alternative to conventional palliative measures. Disappointed with the above reply, which shows you have jumped to unfounded assumptions about AppyT & appear to have a very narrow and rather incorrect view about 'barefoot' Kevin. **But so saying, this is understandable, as so many people have jumped on 'barefoot wagons' in the past with a lot of fanaticism & little real knowledge, so have caused a lot of grief to a lot of horses needlessly, as well as closing the minds of many who have experienced this to other approaches.

My best advice, for OP & others with horses - be they already lame or otherwise - is to ***educate yourselves*** as best you can, rather than just blindly trusting the words of farriers & vets. Of course these 'experts' may well have good knowledge.... but they may not, regardless of what pieces of paper they hold. So if you don't understand the basic principles behind hoof function & health, how are you to know whether they're good, bad or indifferent? If you(or they) haven't studied the alternatives, how are you to know whether their 'best advice' is really a good thing?? 

To the specifics of your reply Kevin, yes, I agree thoroughly horses such as 'navicular' horses do indeed need protection & support for their feet. But shoes are certainly not the only way to do this & for a number of reasons(don't want to start an essay) I don't think they're *generally* the best option for a nav horse - or one with any hoof pathology *generally*. Protecting the feet with boots &/or pads(along with other measures) is an alternative that is not just palliative like shoes, but can enable rehabilitation and the development of strong feet.



> Navicular disease is lameness of the front feet caused by injury to the navicular bone.


It actually appears that the opposite to the above statement is true, according to more up to date research. It is the lameness that causes toe-first landings which subsequently leads to damage of the nav. region, along with pedal bone, lamellar & other joint damage. 

It appears that many(most?) domestic horses, to varying degrees never develop strong, healthy heels & digital cushions, due to factors such as environment & lifestyle - cushy footing, little exercise, etc. Shoes can often mask the problem, but generally weak, sensitive heels lead to toe-first impacts. This means that the horse's natural means of absorbing shock(the digital cushion) is inactive for one, which leads to all sorts of other issues - founder, arthritis, breaks & strains, etc(& shock is heightened with metal shoes). But this toe first impact also keeps both the tendons - deep digital & suspensory - under strain upon impact, rather than them being relieved when the hoof is loaded & flexed naturally. The subsequent damage to the ddft when taut & rubbing against the nav. bone appears to come first & cause damage to the bone. This damage is apparently irrepairable. BUT this damage doesn't mean the horse necessarily needs to be lame or become further damaged by the problem. They can indeed go on to happy, useful & pain free lives. **Please note, not saying every horse, regardless of degree can be healed.

As mentioned later in that article mzfhredi posted, toe first impacts - or more correctly lack of use of the heels - tends to lead to contraction & further weakness, and higher heels. Many farriers also trim in this manner too, which unfortunately further forces toe first impacts & the damage this causes. But farriers have also discovered that raising heels and taking the heels further out of use is an effective palliative measure - at least short term - for reducing or removing the pain. So heels are further 'protected' from impact & raised higher, until this eventually ceases to help, and the horse is denerved(gen also temporary relief) or put down, often due ultimately to mechanical founder.

If the horse is protected and supported in such a manner that it can comfortably make heel-first impacts, the hooves are kept trimmed in such a way that they can function well - low heels, short toes, etc, then the more exercise it gets, the stronger it's feet become, until ultimately it may have healthy, strong and pain free feet & not require any protection or support. **Please also don't assume this is necessarily easy or quick process(tho it sometimes can be) or that all horses can develop strong enough feet to go barefoot in any surrounds. Unfortunately, again due to factors such as environment & lifestyle & diet, many domestic horses will always need protection on some footing. For this purpose, I think that boots are *generally* a far better alternative to conventional metal rims.

Anyway, that's my take & no time to write more anyway. I don't in the least expect - or even hope for - people will just take my word for it. After all, I'm just one more opinion & I believe people should make their own *informed* decisions. So quite following anyone's advice blindly & go do your own homework, before making your own mind up. To that end, I think hoofrehab.com is among the best places to start with. There is a lot of well researched info there.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

FYI churumbeque (did I spell that right, LOL) is absolutely right about the Bute. You should NOT use Bute as a long-term pain reliever because it causes ulcers. I don't have my Bute in front of me, but I think the package directions say that you should not use if for more than seven days. I'm not completely certain on that number, but that is a definite no-no.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Thanks for the followup, Loosie.


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## cmvet (Apr 14, 2010)

So just my 2-cents.

With the use of MRI in the past 10 years we have learned a lot about caudal heel pain in the horse. What we find is that more often than not, there are soft tissue injuries to various structures along with the navicular changes. Injury of the impar ligament, suspensory ligament of the navicular, navicular bursa adhesions, deep digital flexor desmitis, ect may all be a larger portion of the caudal heel pain, than the inflammation associated with the navicular bone changes. Horses diagnosed with caudal heel pain that we place in the magnet, we find less than 30% have navicular bone changes only. The majority of horses have coinciding soft tissue injury/complications. Each may be managed or treated in a slightly different manner.

I would agree that coffin joint or navicular bursa injections can significantly help those horses with navicular changes or bursal adhesions and I use them frequently. Decreasing the inflammation can slow the progression of the disease and provide significant relief. I do use medications like Isoxuprine, pentoxyphyline, or tildren in some cases. Palmar-digital neurectomy in my opinion is a last resort effort as it does nothing to treat the disease, the inflammation remain, the progression continues, and more damage is occurring. There is the chance of developing painful neuromas, having further damage to or rupture of the deep digital flexor tendon in some cases. And approximately 50-60% of horses will regain sensitivity (due to nerve regrowth) in 12-18 months, and most by 2 years.

Corrective trimming/shoeing is essential to help support and relieve soreness and there is no 1-way to trim/shoe a navicular horse, and often you need to try a few things to find what works best for your particular case. I always recommend that your veterinarian and farrier be able to work together to formulate a treatment plan for your horse. If your farrier or your vet is unwilling to accept suggestions from each other, then they are not doing the best for your horse. My opinion on barefoot trimming is that it can help some horses, however, you have to have the right horse, and the right environment.


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## mzfhredi (May 10, 2010)

I agree wholeheartedly.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

cmvet said:


> So just my 2-cents.
> 
> With the use of MRI in the past 10 years we have learned a lot about caudal heel pain in the horse. What we find is that more often than not, there are soft tissue injuries to various structures along with the navicular changes. Injury of the impar ligament, suspensory ligament of the navicular, navicular bursa adhesions, deep digital flexor desmitis, ect may all be a larger portion of the caudal heel pain, than the inflammation associated with the navicular bone changes. Horses diagnosed with caudal heel pain that we place in the magnet, we find less than 30% have navicular bone changes only. The majority of horses have coinciding soft tissue injury/complications. Each may be managed or treated in a slightly different manner.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this post. I was just speaking with a vet yesterday about navicular, and he said very much the same thing. "Nerving" (Palmar-digital neurectomy) a horse is not permanent, and, like you said, should be used as a last resort. In most cases you only get 2-5 years out of the surgery, and it's a one-shot deal.
I strongly suggest speaking with your vet and farrier (a collaborative effort) to follow the best treatment plan for _your individual case._


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## pieinthesky (Mar 12, 2010)

I actually like to at least try going barefoot for navicular horses. My mare has done alot better with out shoes then she has ever done with them, and we took them off only a few months ago. We tried wedges, regular shoes, egg bars, bars, full pads, and equipak. Lucky for me the cheepest thing for her feet actually is working the best. 

My vet told me I could try coffin injections, its about $250 per foot I think. It could very well be worth trying. Denerving is a last resort. You need to pick and monitor the hoof very closely. it can be unsucessful and grow back quickly. Your not doing squat but masking the symptoms. You're not treating the actual hoof issue at all. I have a moral issue with denerving my horse, and riding her when she wouldnt really be 100% sound otherwise. 

One thing I really see alot with navicular horses is underrun heals and long toe. Shortening the break over is essential. The ops horse looks like she has a good foot, but it looks like the heels might be a little too long?


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

The approach my vet had was to get Cat in eggbar shoes/ something of the like give her the Isoxsuprine and Aspirin. When the Isoxsuprine and Aspirin didn't seem to be helping enough she recommended then injecting the coffin bone. Then when that didn't work, she recommended injecting the bursa (I think that was the injection order anyway). When that didn't work she would try and find any other options available before nerving. She stressed all of the things and possibilities we could try with her before nerving and using the nerving as the last option. (and one that I don't really want to have to do at all...)


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

catandminot said:


> The approach my vet had was to get Cat in eggbar shoes/ something of the like give her the Isoxsuprine and Aspirin. When the Isoxsuprine and Aspirin didn't seem to be helping enough she recommended then injecting the coffin bone. Then when that didn't work, she recommended injecting the bursa (I think that was the injection order anyway). When that didn't work she would try and find any other options available before nerving. She stressed all of the things and possibilities we could try with her before nerving and using the nerving as the last option. (and one that I don't really want to have to do at all...)


You should talk to her about Tildren as an option before nerving. Not sure what the bony changes are like but I know that Tildren has helped a few navicular horses I know.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

catandminot said:


> Once the horse is nerved, the horse isn't able to feel it's foot. So if a problem ever arose, say an abscess, I would never know. She is so prone to hurting herself anyway, that I wouldn't take the risk of not knowing when something is wrong. Also since the horse can't feel it's foot, they could trip anytime and I definitely wouldn't want to be riding her if and when it happens. And if I have to repeat the extremely painful surgery in 2 years when the nerve tries to heal itself and fuses back together, all of the recuperation, pain for Cat, time, and money from the last one would have just gone down the drain.
> 
> It's just one of those options that I don't want to have to take if at all possible...


There are other ways to detect an abcess and they are preventable. Any horse can trip any time. The horse I have that is nerved doesn't stumble any more than any other horse I own. As has been previously stated, if done correctly only a part of the foot is without feeling. Most vets that denerve now drill a hole in the bone and put the end of the nerve in the bone so that no matter how far it grows it will not reconnect. I think you should try other options but I would not leave denerving of the list and a horse that is denerved can have a very productive life. I would rather denerve a horse than wait 2-3 years with it in pain while I try different methods of palliative treatment. If your horse really has navicular disease then palliative is all you can do as it is not curable.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> There are other ways to detect an abcess and they are preventable. Any horse can trip any time. The horse I have that is nerved doesn't stumble any more than any other horse I own. As has been previously stated, if done correctly only a part of the foot is without feeling. Most vets that denerve now drill a hole in the bone and put the end of the nerve in the bone so that *no matter how far it grows it will not reconnect*. I think you should try other options but I would not leave denerving of the list and a horse that is denerved can have a very productive life. I would rather denerve a horse than wait 2-3 years with it in pain while I try different methods of palliative treatment. If your horse really has navicular disease then palliative is all you can do as it is not curable.


Do you have literature about this hole-drilling technique? 

When de-nerving the traditional way, (I honestly have never heard about this hole technique, so I can't comment on it) the nerve starts to re-grow with numerous branches; so numerous that it is virtually impossible to make sure you cut each re-growing end. The traditional method is a one-shot deal, and once re-growth happens, that's that. Most horses get up to 5 years out of the de-nerving procedure. 
If this hole technique does work, I'd love to read on it, as Denny just got diagnosed the other day.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

That's what the man that I bought my navicular horse told me the vet did. As he is still pretty sound I have to say it must have worked.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I honestly have never heard of a hole-drilling technique; is there any way you can find out the correct term for it? I would love to do some reading up on it. 
Some horses will stay sound past 5 years with the de-nerving procedure, but it is relatively rare. It completely depends on the horse, to be sure, but it certainly isn't a guarantee.


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## ausfarrier (Apr 24, 2010)

Dorso/Palmer balance (looking from the side) looks good. The fetlock is well supported and the shoe looks like it is centered around the coffin joint correctly. Good job. If I was to make any suggestion it would be to bring the break over back further by rolling the toe more. I do wonder why the need to go to a smaller shoe and also why the fuller grove has been closed up so much making the nails sit proud of the shoe. From the pictures I could not comment on medio/lateral balance.

Cheers

Richard
Australian Farrier


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> I honestly have never heard of a hole-drilling technique; is there any way you can find out the correct term for it? I would love to do some reading up on it.
> Some horses will stay sound past 5 years with the de-nerving procedure, but it is relatively rare. It completely depends on the horse, to be sure, but it certainly isn't a guarantee.


The vet that worked on the horse was a Dr. Clark from Albion Idaho. He is pretty well thought of all over the west but I have never met him. I purchased the horse after he had already been de-nerved.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

ausfarrier said:


> I do wonder why the need to go to a smaller shoe and also why the fuller grove has been closed up so much making the nails sit proud of the shoe.


Would you have left the shoe and nails looking like that?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> The vet that worked on the horse was a Dr. Clark from Albion Idaho. He is pretty well thought of all over the west but I have never met him. I purchased the horse after he had already been de-nerved.


Is there any chance you could get me the name of the procedure? 
I am very interested to read up on it, if you're sure that's what they did...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that's what was done and I will try to get you the name of the procedure.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Thanks in advance  You're welcome to PM me the info if/when you're able to get it, if you'd prefer.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Will do!


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## MissH (Apr 10, 2010)

Interesting thread - subscribing simply to see how OPs issue turns out and how the story unfolds.


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

Well here's a quick "mini-update"..... I called the vet's office today to find out if the x-ray cd is coming or if the vet forgot to burn it. The secretary left a note with my phone number on it for the vet to ask/ remind her about the cd. My vet was having surgery a couple weeks ago, so I understand that things come up, but it would have been nice to have the cd already. Oh well... Hopefully she will call me soon.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Btw, here's my latest resolution over this whole mess: I ended up just keeping her on the isoxsuprine and aspirin despite my farrier's advice. When my vet calls about the cd, I'm going to update her on Cat's progress with the Heartbar shoes and ask her if she thinks that using them was a good idea. I'm probably going to ask her what farrier she would recommend in my area that specializes in navicular trimming/ shoeing. I'm going to give my "new" (the farrier being mentored by my old farrier.. (I'm sorry this is so confusing!)) farrier one more try in a few weeks before switching to the Certified Journeyman Farrier in my area or whomever the vet recommends. I'm thinking that these two farrier options (if my current one doesn't work out) will provide me more alternatives other than telling me to ignore my vet's advice and put on $200 heartbar shoes instead...

Thoughts?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I had a CJF come out to shoe a clients horse last week and I told him about the nails sitting proud on the shoe and he said and I quote " Anybody that will leave a shoe looking like that is a **** poor shoer and shouldn't touch a horse". That's the thing that bothers me about the shoer the most is that he left something that is easy to fix so what will he do with something that is hard to fix?


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

Okay I finally got the xrays in and figured out how they worked. Here you guys go! Any comments would be appreciated!!

(She is now down to 15 tabs of 20mg of isxosuprine and 1 tab of asprin a day. She is also being ridden at the walk and light trot for maybe 30 minutes since Monday and seems to be MUCH more comfortable than she has been in months so SOMETHING is working!!  BTW, I am also going to try a new farrier in a couple weeks. I'll take before and after pictures if I have time. )

Thanks guys!!


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## catandminot (Feb 18, 2009)

Anyone have any ideas...?


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## mcph (Jun 11, 2010)

I am new here but just saw your post.Iam a farrier and proffesional reining horse trainer so I have unfortunatly had experience with your problem. First I must say that Ididnt like the way your farrier openly contradicted and insulted your vet by suggesting they wanted to string you along for the money. If I miss understood I appalagize. Next the advice your vet gave you is pretty much the standard course of action. as far as the isoxsaprine it is a good drug and I have never heard of a case where it caused any harm, in some cases it has helped a lot. also on the subject of nerving the feet, make sure you do your research on this procedure, many horses have problems with neromas that can be worse than the navicular. For many horses it is a good fix but you won't know until you try it. I really hate to go against another farrier but I would follow your Vets advice with the information I have from reading your post. I hope it works out for you. Mike


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

Barefoot is the answer to CURE what is causing the navicular. "I'm gonna get flamed for that comment. LOL:wink:" Anything else that doesn't cure what is causing the problem is only masking it, which means the problem is still there.

Also I think with navicular that once the damage has been done it can't be undone. You can only take measures to halt what is causing the damage, and then prevent future damage from there.

Navicular is caused from toe first landings. In a normal healthy hoof the horse is landing heel first and then flowing forward until they move far enough forward to go over their breakover point. There's some good videos on youtube showing what a barefoot horse looks like while moving forward. And then there are also some videos showing what a toe first landing looks like. 

Basically the horse is too sore in the heel to have heel first landings. So they land toe first and then they drop all their weight onto their heel. This causes excess pressures and friction and heat. 

I'd link to the youtube videos but I don't know how to insert just the link without the video popping up. So if you just type in barefoot hooves into the search you'll find em.


And I'm gonna mention that I am no professional. I'm just a self educated person looking for the best options for my horses. And the hooves are one of the things that I've spent a little bit of time studying. And navicular is something that I learned a little about in the process.

And I also agree with loosie that you should do as much research as you can handle. Don't just take anyone's word about it. You need to find people that have lots of experience in what ever direction you go. Cus in the end you're gonna do what is comfortable for you. And the more info you posess the better everything will turn out.

But all in all I wanted to mention my opinion that you should do some research on barefoot hooves. 

PS. For the one looking for the name of the procedure that Dr. Clark did to one of the horses that Kevin now owns.... I could see if I can get his phone number for ya? He lives about three miles from me. And he is pretty popular. I see lots of people with horse trailers stopped on the road staring at his sign trying to figure out how to get to his place.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

There is no cure for navicular, unfortunately. There are management options, but there is no cure. Navicular also isn't caused solely by toe-first landings, though that can be a contributor to further degredation and is a strong indicator.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> There is no cure for navicular, unfortunately. There are management options, but there is no cure. Navicular also isn't caused solely by toe-first landings, though that can be a contributor to further degredation and is a strong indicator.


Hi,

As total freedom said, 'barefoot' principles are a 'cure' *for the cause*, whereas conventional treatment is only palliative - masks the problem temporarily. TF also said that once the damage has been done, it can't be undone. So IMO your first statement is likely literally true & in agreeance with TF. I say likely because while the bone damage appears reversible, not sure if tendon damage is or not. I say 'literally' because while the bone damage is irreparable, setting the feet up to function correctly can not only halt the progression of damage, but eliminate the symptoms & build a strong, sound hoof, which is effectively as good as a complete cure in my book.:wink:

While there is still some contention about possible contributing factors, it seems that research has pretty much shown your second statement to be incorrect. Toe first impacts appear to be the *primary cause* of damage to the navicular bone & ddft, far from just contributing to further degeneration. Sorry I forget the studies I've read on it, but I think one of the earliest was by Dr James Rooney. 

But perhaps you mean the initial cause of heel pain. This is due largely to environment & management practices which cause a horse's digital cushions to remain underdeveloped. As such, as they mature & gain weight, especially when asked to work on hard surfaces they are unused to, their digital cushions are sensitive and ill formed to cope. So the horse begins to 'tippy toe', which starts the whole degenerative ball rolling.

This last paragraph is a huge reason why I get frustrated about the whole 'any horse can go barefoot' thing & especially about the 'transition period' business of just forcing a horse to 'toughen up'. IMO there is a huge difference between 'barefoot' and 'unshod'(meaning conventionally) and I would even go so far as saying I think most domestic horses are not in a position to be able to be successful 'high performance barefooters', regardless of 'navicular' or otherwise, but that is not to say I don't think *generally* horses are better off unshod. ...Suspect I've just been a bit clearer than mud on that:?, but the bottom line is, protect & support hooves whenever necessary with boots or such, to ensure they can *comfortably* use their feet *correctly*.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Proper hoofcare either shod or barefoot is important to prevent navicular or treat it once your horse has been diagnosed. You must have someone that is qualified. A hoof can function well even if it's shod if it's shod properly. A barefoot hoof that is not well balanced or well trimmed will not function properly even if the person has looked at Pete Rameys website untill he/she is **** near blind. It's important to do the right thing for the horse regardless of what you want to be the right thing. Some navicular horses do much better barefoot but it WILL NOT cure them all. Most veterinary schools and breed associations are spending a bunch of money researching the causes and the remedies for the disease and there is no conclusive evidence that barefoot trimming is any better for navicular horses than proper shoeing.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

One of my clients horses had navicular and was "nerved". I was unsure about this process and didn't like the sound of it at all but decided to ask the farrier his view on "nerving" horses so I could learn more myself. He gave an interesting response.

Basically in some cases (not all) "nerving" allows correct blood flow to the site of injury where bloodflow was previously inhibited due to the incorrect 'toe first' stepping that the navicular horse exhibits. This blood flow can correct the initial lameness problem, and if and when the nerves grow back in 6 months to two years, the underlying problem may be alleviated or even cured (this is not always the case however happens quite frequently according to the farrier). Additionally, horses can still feel abcesses and other painful hoof issues as not all of the nerves are severed.

I found it interesting, thought I would share.


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

If one does a search for, James Rooney + navicular, you can find some good information worth educating oneself with.

Here's a couple I found in a search from google. I had a third one that was a bit more detailed but more difficult of a read. Yet it said the same thing as these articles.

http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/support-files/navicular.pdf
Navicular Disease - Information about Navicular Disease

Good Stuff


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## orin (Jul 22, 2009)

since this post has gone up my navicular mare has been put barefoot and is now sound!!

good luck to the poster, i hope you get good results x


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

What strikes me about the above articles is that they make no distinction between navicular syndrome and navicular disease. Navicular syndrome is heel pain that is not from obvious injury. Navicular disease is changes in the density of the navicular bone and is viewable on x-rays. Navicular syndrome is treatable and cureable but navicular disease is not curable. Both benefit from proper hoofcare. Simply yanking the shoes off your lame horse is NOT going to help it. You can shoe for a heel first landing and still protect your horses hooves with shoes. The other thing that strikes me is that the articles quote each other as proof of what they are saying and I think that is funny.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

orin said:


> since this post has gone up my navicular mare has been put barefoot and is now sound!!
> 
> good luck to the poster, i hope you get good results x


Yay! One more down.... or up, as the case may be!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> Navicular syndrome is treatable and cureable but navicular disease is not curable. Both benefit from proper hoofcare. Simply yanking the shoes off your lame horse is NOT going to help it. You can shoe for a heel first landing and still protect your horses hooves with shoes.


Largely pedantics & perception IMO. 'Navicular syndrome' - aka unexplained heel pain is very common - I suggest WAY more common than people may suspect. It is this which essentially leads to toe first impacts and frequently resulting 'navicular disease'. As explained above, while the bone degeneration is not repairable, the horse is still *effectively* able to be 'cured' by being trimmed **and managed** properly. No one EVER said, or even implied "Simply yanking the shoes off your lame horse" would be a good move or effective. No one ever said every horse was 'cureable' either but I debate your claim of the effectiveness of actual cures(as opposed to palliative/masking) with shoes involved. 

Must say, I agree there are as yet little good studies into it tho - which is why you get people citing eachother for further info. Pete Ramey has done some good studies, not to mention his experience. I think Bowker is another, and Dr Chris Pollitt of the Uni of Qld.... can't remember exactly what they've got specific to 'navicular' but it's all essentially the same principles at play.


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