# I want to trot, please do NOT canter, You just cantered!



## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Ask for he trot, sit deep and relaxed, and when she goes to canter, stop her and back up up 10 feet or so, lether stand there for a few seconds and try again. Eventually she wil learn what you want.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

What type of tom thumb are we talking about? 

This is a tom thumb snaffle, which is a nice bit









this is a western tom thumb. They can have straight or swept back shanks. Either way it is really a disaster of a bit. 









This may be rider error. Many people, when learning to post are trying to find their balance and may accidentally squeeze the horses sides as they post, thus giving the horse more leg than they need and asking for a canter instead. 

You said you've tried sitting deeper but make sure you aren't just sitting back. Sitting back actually pushes your seat bones forward and encourages more forward. 

Since she isn't yours can you ask the owner how she maintains a trot and get some instruction from her before the trainer can come out? I'm sure he/she will be happy to help as i'm sure they want their horse ridden properly.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

How about when she canters, spiraling her down until she's trotting? 

And you can't trailer out to a more appropriate work area? What about just letting her run loose in there and get to to walk, trot, and then go back to walk?


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## Becka (Aug 6, 2013)

QHrider, I never thought about stopping and backing her! She backs very very well too. Definately something I will try tomorrow. TY

Breakable, My mistake, I do own the horse, I bought her 6 weeks ago. Her old owner told me it was a snaffle or tom thumb that worked best on Koda, unfortunatley I didnt ask if it was an English or western style. Im guessing it would be English due to the old owner being strictly english. When I say sit deeper ,,,I try to loosen my legs ot drop me into the saddle more,,,,I tihnk thats how I want to say it but not sure if that explains it the way I see it in my head. I do think when I try to post I am squeezing and sending her mixed signals.

Shes a trooper though and a great horse, she never once acted up or gave me a hard time.
I really like the english saddle now that ive been in it a few times its starting to feel more comfortable.

Thank you for such quick replies!


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## Becka (Aug 6, 2013)

Skyseternal, I can trailer her to the fair grounds and the racetrack but its fair season and theres a horse show this week so I have to wait another week or 2, and I dont have rails, we have the hi grass for a boarder, which she is use to.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

Ok, next when you're posting you want to be aware of where your weight is. Think about dropping your weight into your heels, so they just drop of their own accord, don't just shove them down. My thought is that you are likely posting off your toes, your heel rises and to balance you grip with your calves. 

Do a bunch of serpentines up and down the arena. Keep some bend in her body and post. It'll also give you a chance to switch your diagonals a lot. If you feel her tense up at all (raise her head, feel her back lower, just feel her get tense, or speed up). Bend her down to a stop with one rein, make sure you move you hand nice and slow. When she stops and gives her head, let her head straighten out. You don't need to back her up. The important thing is how she feels. Wait for her to feel more relaxed then walk off. IS your walk relaxed? Great trot on. 

You will need to practice this from a halt and walk first. 

Another thing that is likely rider error are your hands. It's another common mistake when posting to try and balance off of your hands. Your contact may also be too firm or too loose. This isn't really something that can really be described online, when the trainer comes out they should be able to help.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I've never heard of a full cheek snaffle being called an English tom thumb bit. Please do not use the western one, it is not a good bit at all. 

Is this mare balanced and off of her forehand at a canter? I ask because if she is strung out, that might be an indication that she is feeling off balanced at a trot and thus going into a faster pace to try to balance herself.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

If she's as well trained as you say she is, could you be cueing her for canter instead of trot? English horses typically don't cue for trot with leg bumps... you generally squeeze on the girth with both legs softly but then more intense until the horse responds.

You could be cueing "loudly" so she jumps into the canter.


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## EdmontonHorseGal (Jun 2, 2013)

Skyseternalangel said:


> English horses typically don't cue for trot with leg bumps... you generally squeeze on the girth with both legs softly but then more intense until the horse responds.


not too sure where you heard that for cuing a canter when riding english, but it is not correct. you put your outside leg back slightly (behind the girth) in addition to the squeeze.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

EdmontonHorseGal said:


> not too sure where you heard that for cuing a canter when riding english, but it is not correct. you put your outside leg back slightly (behind the girth) in addition to the squeeze.


I was referring to trot, as per the thread's title. 

Some horses will jump a gear if you ask for something too strongly or out of the ordinary from how they are trained.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Shift your weight BACK, as if you feel your head will touch the horse's croup. I would bet you are leaning forward, and the horse feels that means canter. Also try not to balance your weight on the reins, because the extra pressure could mean a cue to her. My horses use an "inside rein, outside hip and leg" cue for canter.

Good Luck!!

nancy


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Yup ^^ there is a good chance your are "over-riding" as well. 

I am SO guilty of this. 
SO SO SO GUILTY.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

Endiku said:


> I've never heard of a full cheek snaffle being called an English tom thumb bit. Please do not use the western one, it is not a good bit at all.
> 
> Is this mare balanced and off of her forehand at a canter? I ask because if she is strung out, that might be an indication that she is feeling off balanced at a trot and thus going into a faster pace to try to balance herself.


It's not a full cheek, the rings rotate like on a loose ring while you still get the stability of the full cheek. On a full cheek, the cheekpiece is all one piece.


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

BreakableRider said:


> It's not a full cheek, the rings rotate like on a loose ring while you still get the stability of the full cheek. On a full cheek, the cheekpiece is all one piece.


That is a fulmer snaffle, very similar to a full cheek. No such thing as a Tom Thumb snaffle.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

TheAQHAGirl said:


> That is a fulmer snaffle, very similar to a full cheek. No such thing as a Tom Thumb snaffle.


Glad to know another name for them, I first learned about them from an Australian on another board and i've always heard her and other Australians refer to them as such. Knowing them as a fulmer will be a lot less confusing.


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## VickiRose (Jul 13, 2013)

As an Aussie, I was taught that it was called a Tom Thumb too, not a Fulmer 
You say the horse was trained for dressage, so this might not apply, but some standies are taught to completely bypass the trot if its too rough or if they pace. Probably not in your case though, I think the others have given you good advice to go on with.


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## StormCloud (Mar 3, 2013)

TheAQHAGirl said:


> That is a fulmer snaffle, very similar to a full cheek. No such thing as a Tom Thumb snaffle.


You do know that not everyone on this forum lives in the same part of the world as you, right? In different places, there are different names for things. The type of bit illustrated is _totally_ called a Tom Thumb in Australia. I use one with my horse.

Saying "I've never heard of a bit like that being called a Tom Thumb" is fine. Flatly telling someone else that they're wrong and that there's "no such thing" as a Tom Thumb snaffle... that's less fine.


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## StormCloud (Mar 3, 2013)

Following on from my previous post (since I'm clearly having a brain fail and can't figure out how to edit the post after it's posted): Here's some links to Australian tack retailers, all of whom refer to this style of bit as a Tom Thumb:
Korsteel Tom Thumb Snaffle, Riding Bits, Loose Ring Bits, Eggbutt Bits, Weymouth Sets, Horseland
Tom Thumb Snaffle Bit Stainless Steel | Online Equine Saddlery Australia
Tom Thumb Snaffle Bit |

Hope that helps clarify the issue.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Geez, makes me wonder if I've been telling a bunch of you less experienced Australians that your bit was bad when it is actually one of my first choices for greener or less stable riders and horses  I had no idea that fulmers were considered TTs where you guys are. If you suggest riding in a TT in my part of the world, it is automatically assumed that you mean the broken pieced copper curb contraption that all of us western riders abhor for its mixed signals, tendancy to be harsh, and overuse with beginners. Yikes!


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## StormCloud (Mar 3, 2013)

Hee! Well, my horse declines to have anything else in his mouth. Offer him a Tom Thumb (Aussie version) and he politely opens his mouth and invites it in. The one time I tried anything else, it was a hanging cheek french-link snaffle that the woman in the tack shop swore black-and-blue that she'd never ever known a horse to dislike. We tried it *just the once* - and she refunded our money when we told her that he'd actually _reared_ when we attempted to use it on him. And yet five minutes later, he was all _Yes please, I'll have that_ when we offered him the Tom Thumb again. Go figure. I guess my horse Has Opinions. :-7


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Well in my part of the world people say this is a Tom Thumb "snaffle".










Of course that is not a snaffle, hence why I said there is no such thing as a TT snaffle. I didn't realize that Aussies called fulmer bit is called a TT. This is the internet people are going to say different things, so I would just take it with a grain of salt. 

Back on topic....

OP you got some really good answers...I used to own a hot headed gelding that would jump straight from the walk to the lope (with little gait in between). I did a a 'one rein stop', as what you can YouTube from watching Clinton Anderson, and had him flex and wait until I asked him the cue again. Once he got the fundamental walk/gait/lope (he was a TWH--didn't trot) I gave him different cues for each gait. I would give him voice cues for each gait, that way he knew which cue meant which gait and he never got confused. Of course you don't have to give your horse voice cues, there are millions of ways. Just make each cues different from the other and make them distinct.


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## Becka (Aug 6, 2013)

First of all, Thank you all so much for your responses. I have found some answers and some definate "will tries". 

Koda is definately HOT as someoen mentioned they had a gelding like that. So, im thinking I need to worm her up double time to get her where I want her just so I can learn this. 

Kodas cue for a canter is to put your outside leg back and ever so lightly raise your inside rein, she is VERY in tune to that que. It works very well.

I am in total agreement that im either too loose on the rein or to tight and definately sending mixed signals. I like the one rein stop and relax then restart.

Her walk is wonderful, very smooth, we are both very relaxed and she will transition smoothly to the next gait (trot or canter) but as I said before the trot goes immediatley to a canter. 

Again thank you all for advice and lesson on tom thumb bits, it is the picture above that she used for that particular bit.

I have this written down!!!!! LOL, Folded up in my pocket. I will be on her again tomorrow,,,my gelding trots like a champ so there was no problem with him today, but I will be using her tomorrow and will definately try some of these.


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## Thrill Ride (Feb 18, 2013)

If you aren't good at trotting/posting, you might be bumping her with your legs while trotting which is cueing her to trot. Does she do this in western and english?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

You could also try ponying her with your gelding at the walk and then trot.. using vocal cues.


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Becka said:


> First of all, Thank you all so much for your responses. I have found some answers and some definate "will tries".
> 
> Koda is definately HOT as someoen mentioned they had a gelding like that. So, im thinking I need to worm her up double time to get her where I want her just so I can learn this.
> 
> ...


Another tip for handling HOT horses is being quiet as possible and being extra soft. Last thing you want to do is start giving very loud cues to your horse and have him over react.


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