# Lazy horse- give up on dressage with him?



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

Do you hack him out often? I'd start looking at re-motivating him. Brock is super-lazy. You'd think he was slow until you yell "dinner!" and watch him gallop up to the fence! He was very sluggish when I started schooling him, but with the right motivation is very very forward. Out on the trail he likes to be at the front, especially if there's a mare to impress and other geldings to show up. I started schooling him every other time with another horse in the arena, making him travel behind them then overtake (politely) - his natural competitive edge came out and after a while he realised that schooling was actually fun (so long as it didn't get repetitive) with or without company, and he started pulling his huge, fancy trot out whenever I asked.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Sometimes you have to figure out what makes a horse tick, and just changing up your routine a little bit can bring around a whole new outlook regarding something you've done a thousand times in the past. So maybe your horse is super lazy if you keep to your 'typical' warm up and ride, change it up a bit. Don't JUST work on dressage when you're working on Dressage, do some pole work, cross rails, short gallops, different patterns, whatever your horse 'likes' to do to get their attention and perk them up and maybe they'll be happier to move forward in the Dressage and get rid of that lazy kick.

That's just what I've found has worked for MYSELF, obviously it's not a fix for all the lazy horses out there though :wink:


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## core (Oct 30, 2011)

I have to ride my horse very, very forward in the warmup. She has to continue going forward with big energy without my calves on her for at least once around at trot and once a canter.

If I don't, the rest of the ride I feel like I'm nagging her for even the tiniest bit of energy. Then I feel guilty and hate myself. 

If I do impress on her that the lightest aid for forward really means forward, then she's a dream the rest of the ride. 

My issue with my horse is I beg her for forward instead of demanding it once and being done with the nagging. If I put my calves on she has to jump forward immediately at the lightest touch, and taking my calves off does not mean she can stop. She used to require that I continuously drive her forward nearly every step. I had one clinic with a top notch trainer that pointed that out, and I've spent the last 4 months fixing it. It is such a different ride from what I was used to with my horse. Now she's got some real power behind her. Her lengthens (which were utterly non-existent before the clinic) are tremendously big and floaty now. 

My point being... it's not the horse in most cases. It's us riders creating the problems. (Assuming your vet has ruled out health issues).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I also wouldn't give up on the clinic..it is possible the clinic instructor can give you ideas on how to re-engage the horse's enthusiasm..for lack of a better term. Never turn down a chance to learn from another instructor as long as the instructor is capable.

My last horse would get bored pretty quickly and at that his attitude was horrible. I found, however, that he enjoyed learning new things or just being able to change up the "old" things. For example, instead of doing simple leg yields I started working on shoulder and haunches in..he could barely manage them and they were very ugly and unbalanced but he liked trying and it would settle his attitude. He also really enjoyed the lengthened trot down the long sides and collected on the short side exercise.

Pole work, even playing barrel racer on occasions around the cones or jump standards that happened to be set up in the arena also helped.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Did your vet do a blood test? Usually Selenium is not used unless you know for a fact that the horse is lacking it. It is poisonous.
Have you tried red blood cell? That can give horses lots of energy.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses. I've been feeling a bit down about this lately, and it's good to get some encouragement.



alexischristina said:


> Sometimes you have to figure out what makes a horse tick, and just changing up your routine a little bit can bring around a whole new outlook regarding something you've done a thousand times in the past.


I think this really is the crux of the matter. I started jumping him in December and it was amazing the difference in his attitude at first- he'd be more forward for _days_ after going to a jumping lesson (I trailer out to them with a friend). Unfortunately, this has kind of tapered off, and while he still seems to like jumping at the lessons, he's no longer more forward afterward, and he doesn't seem to enjoy it as much at home. I'm not sure if he's just tired of our arena, likes the group environment of the jumping lesson, or what. I haven't been able to go for the past couple months, as well (since my friend was the one with the trailer and she is crazy busy in the summer) I did, however, JUST get my own truck and trailer; unfortunately the next jumping lesson is on the same day as the dressage clinic and it'll be another month before the next one.

I have been taking him out on trails every week since getting the trailer, but haven't noticed any difference in attitude. He does seem to enjoy the trail rides, but is not any faster on them. If he's in back he walks slowly until he's reached a certain distance from the other horses, then trots to catch up. If he's in front I get lots of complaints from the people behind me ;-) Last weekend I led a ride with 5 people behind me and ended up having to stop and break a switch off a plant (makeshift dressage whip) just to keep him at a respectable walk. When we go out alone, he's still slow, but I don't mind as much since we're not trying to keep anyone else's pace!



tlkng1 said:


> I also wouldn't give up on the clinic..it is possible the clinic instructor can give you ideas on how to re-engage the horse's enthusiasm..for lack of a better term. Never turn down a chance to learn from another instructor as long as the instructor is capable.


Don't worry- I'm still going. I spent way too much money to get into the clinic to just back out the week before  I'm just worried that the clinician will tell me what I fear- that my horse just isn't cut out for dressage.



churumbeque said:


> Did your vet do a blood test? Usually Selenium is not used unless you know for a fact that the horse is lacking it. It is poisonous.
> Have you tried red blood cell? That can give horses lots of energy.


My horse wasn't tested, but another horse at my barn (who eats the same hay) was and her selenium level was nearly zero (implying that our hay has nearly zero). The only feed my horse gets that's supplemented with selenium is Triple Crown 30%, which isn't formulated specifically for selenium-deficient areas like the Pac NW and only provides about 60% of his daily requirement. I did consult with my vet about it and I'll be using the supplement at half strength (1 scoop a day instead of the recommended 2) I've also done a lot of research on my own, and the NRC puts the upper safe limit of selenium at ~20 mg for a 1000 lb horse, and with the addition of the selenium supplement, my horse will be getting 3.5 mg (plus whatever tiny bit is in the hay.)

I've also recently had his teeth done, his saddle fit checked by a professional saddle fitter, chiropractic done, etc. I'm fairly confident that it's not an issue of discomfort or pain. His hooves were not great when I got him a year and a half ago, and they're still not where I want them to be, so that is one possibility. When I switched to my current farrier, he did immediately stride out better, but has not shown any real improvement since then. I'm planning on talking to my farrier about trying barefoot and seeing what he thinks.


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## Tigo (Feb 25, 2012)

My pony would move at the pace of backwards if there were such a thing :lol: . He's done an average 4th level (60%-62% his first year out at 4th, now aiming for PSG actually). His lengthenings/extensions/impulsion marks etc. are certainly lacking compared to some but darn do we ride a precise test - that's how we pick up the marks.

I have to school forward like there is no tomorrow! Everyday keeping him sharp off my aids and encouraging forward. I know with him it will be a forever thing to be uber-lazy but with correct riding you can kind of train the lazy out of them. Others who aren't as strong as I am or as direct with my "get-up-and-go!" cues can barely get him to move. An 11 y/o gal rode my pony for a while and whooo boy did all his forward training go out the window. Now that I've been riding him again it is coming back. Consistency with requiring forward is key with the lazies. I will admit that a self-propelled horse at upper levels is much easier to ride. Don't give up on your horse because he's lazy! Be persistent with your asking and don't take anything less than what you want.

Remember not to clamp with your legs when asking for more forward. Apply the aid and take it off, back it up with a stick or a kick if needed. The more you clamp on the more likely he is to be lazy and end up ignoring your leg aids. The less aids the better on the lazy horses I find.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Some horses have a thyroid problem. I know one who took medication for it for about a year, then got so lively she was tapered off it, and she's now normal and fine.

I also have a lazy horse, and some of it IS my fault. But what I find works well is exercises requiring short bursts of energy. Transitions from walk to "big trot" for example. If she's been very sluggish, like when it's hot, I use a short crop instead of a whip. Giving a light slap on the neck seems to work best. She likes to know the effort will not last too long; but we've increased the amounts, and will continue to build her stamina.

Right now, recovering from a broken arm, I'm working on "less is more" and really concentrating on getting responses from minimal aids. So far, so good!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Change of routine is a good plan - sharpens a horse up, especially some trail riding
I find that horses that are able to have some turnout where they can really move around are physically and mentally fitter than ones stabled a lot of the time. Exercise improves blood circulation and muscle fitness and all movement is exercise
Some horses do need a higher protein feed. In the UK our (fox) hunters and competition horses all got micronized oats, peas, soya and beans in their daily ration but I've never seen them here
I never find that nagging with your heels is much use - they just get dead to it - Willow is my one that's likely to go lazy on me and one sharp crack with the schooling whip behind my legs is enough to tell her to wake herself up - doesn't need it very often!!!
Get the blood tests done if only to rule out any health issues
I don't think that pulling shoes will make any difference at all. I do like mine to be barefoot if possible but never found they went any better and a horse that's sore footed will not perform well at all


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## Doodlesweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

core said:


> I have to ride my horse very, very forward in the warmup. She has to continue going forward with big energy without my calves on her for at least once around at trot and once a canter.
> 
> If I don't, the rest of the ride I feel like I'm nagging her for even the tiniest bit of energy. Then I feel guilty and hate myself.
> 
> ...


This is a great point for those of us with big, phlegmatic horses. Not sure how to do this but will remember this point forever.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

So, the horse IS active when jumping. That proves he can CHOOSE to go. 

What is the difference? likely it is because he is up/open/free because the rider is allowing it. Too often riders today are taught training (aka dressage) is about longtitudinal flexion first. It is not, and if the horse is taken low/closed it WILL slow/stop.

The teacher/clinician should be teaching you how to have a horse choose a different behavior (both mounted and unmounted). ALL horses, show of unsoundness, are made to go forward, the rest is training.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Sounds like you might just have an eventer on your hands. I agree with others about cross training. Not only is it good for clearing out the cobwebs in the mind, trail riding and hacking put the muscle on the horse necessary for good dressage work. My horse is the same way. If we did our dressage tests out in an open field, we would score in the 9's every time. If I put him in a sand arena and asked him to trot circles every day, he would be one sad sack. Cross training is key. We only do dressage two days a week. The other days we are trail riding, jumping, or running around in hay fields with bugs in our teeth. He is very well conditioned, which makes his job easier, and he's always happy to do his job because he knows I will never drill him into the ground.

I would go to the clinic. At the very worst, the clinician will work with you and tell you, this horse is not happy doing dressage. At best, they will find a way to get your horse happily moving forward into the bit, and you will come back with a new tool box of how to better motivate your horse.


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## disastercupcake (Nov 24, 2012)

This is exactly the same problem I'm encountering with my current project horse! It's good to see so many suggestions on the topic  I've already got some new ideas to spice up the Dressage lessons. Thanks for posting, everyone!


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## teamfire (May 27, 2011)

Forwardness -or the natural lack of it- is an issue with my boy too. If I let him, he'd toddle around at slug pace.

But there IS forwardness and I CAN find it... I just have to be more consistent so the lazy can be 'trained out' of him.

Generally, in my warm up, I trot up the long sides, post as big as I can, and get him to go go go go. That means using the crop, hands forward as not to restrict him at all and just let him stretch those legs. If he canters, ok. The idea is forward. But no nagging. One ask, no response, demand, release and repeat. After a few laps of this, I don't have to keep asking, but I do have to remind him 'yeah, we're still doing this' every now and then.


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## Doodlesweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Sounds like you might just have an eventer on your hands. I agree with others about cross training. Not only is it good for clearing out the cobwebs in the mind, trail riding and hacking put the muscle on the horse necessary for good dressage work. My horse is the same way. If we did our dressage tests out in an open field, we would score in the 9's every time. If I put him in a sand arena and asked him to trot circles every day, he would be one sad sack. Cross training is key. We only do dressage two days a week. The other days we are trail riding, jumping, or running around in hay fields with bugs in our teeth. He is very well conditioned, which makes his job easier, and he's always happy to do his job because he knows I will never drill him into the ground.
> 
> I would go to the clinic. At the very worst, the clinician will work with you and tell you, this horse is not happy doing dressage. At best, they will find a way to get your horse happily moving forward into the bit, and you will come back with a new tool box of how to better motivate your horse.


You sound like you have a very happy boy indeed. Love the image of you two in the hay fields with bugs in your teeth!  Also agree with the cross training.


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

It's really ironic that I clicked on this thread today because I just got home from a lesson where my trainer was getting on me about my horse being so lazy and we talked about the exact same things- he has great, lofty, super strong forward movement out in the pasture with his buddies, but I felt like I was fighting him in the saddle to get more than a plod out of him. 

She was explaining to me that if the horse can do it out in the pasture physically, you need to expect it under saddle. Ask, tell, promise. I've never been one for using whips or spurs, but today she had me on the circle holding a whip and at the moment he began to slow that forward energy to ask him forward with the leg (the ask) if he didn't respond it was an immediate light tap from the whip, and nine times out of ten that was all he needed to keep that forward motion. By being consistent with those two cues for an hour, by the end of it he kept that forward energy without any asking. 

It may take more than one or two sessions with your horse, but I feel for ya, laziness can be a tough one to deal with! I agree with other posters, changing up the scene/ what you ask of him can keep his mind engaged, but ultimately if he is physically fit and there are no issues with pain in tack, then it sounds like a training thing. One we can work on together, as I have a lazy boy too  Good luck!


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

An update... the clinic gave me a lot of stuff to think about (it is now painfully apparent that I need to work on my sitting trot... it's so easy when my horse is puttering around in his best impression of a western pleasure jog, but not so much when he's actually going in a proper English trot), but unfortunately I don't really have any new ideas on getting more "forward." The clinician had a habit of "helping" with a lunge whip from the ground (I saw him doing this with other horses too, not just my horse) which was great to see that my horse _can_ do it, but hasn't translated over to me being able to get him any more forward when I'm riding alone.

My trainer came to see the 2nd day of the clinic so has some ideas from what she saw, but I feel like I'm now kind of on the verge of one of two things. Either I start working him harder (and probably get a professional, either my trainer or someone else, to put some time in the saddle with him) or I back off and focus on something else with him (trail riding/general pleasure riding, trick training, etc.). At this point it could go either way. My next lesson with my trainer is tomorrow so I'll definitely be talking it over with her. I feel like I've been focusing on trying to get my horse more forward for the past year and just haven't been seeing much in the way of improvement...


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Agreed about trail riding, etc. My first thought was that he needs cross training. My 2nd thought is that maybe he doesn't really like Dressage. Are you sure he wouldn't prefer another sport? I hesitate to mention this bc it is YOUR sport. IMHO all horses benefit from basic Dressage training, so nothing is lost, but it would be sad if you two don't agree on what is fun.
Have you ever read any of Alois Podjawsky's books? He used x-country jumping and hacking to bring along his Dressage horses. He took a bad fall and had to quit jumping, but he encouraged the trainers under him at the Spanish School to do so. He ALSO wrote that several horses took a very long time to bring along and master their skills--that could be your problem, too.
My 3rd thought is to pull him from Dressage training and try something like horse volleyball to keep him in shape and listening to your aids, and just give him a vacation from his routine.
Hope these ideas help you. =D


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## core (Oct 30, 2011)

Please try this. Your next training session when it's just you and the horse, focus on asking the horse just once lightly to move forward with BIG energy forward. Doesn't matter where the head is, or how it looks. Just get that response. Keep your thighs off the horse, the forward comes from your calves. Your thighs block the forward energy. Keep the contact steady without gaps in the contact (so he doesn't accidently bop himself in the mouth). 

Put both calves on lightly to ask for the trot and expect a BIG resposne. If you don't get a big response (and I mean BIG), then thump him hard with both heels (or use a whip if you need to). **** him off, get a BIG response. (be safe though.. don't ask for more then you can ride). Ask ONCE. Then take your legs off and just ride. Don't keep your legs on, don't keep asking. Ask once, expect big and stop asking. If the horse starts out big but slows down, then you bop him with both heels for a big forward again and then take your legs off (i.e. legs sit lightly on the sides of the horse but they don't grip, don't bump, don't keep asking). You'll need to re-teach the horse that he doesn't get to determine the speed or rhythm, and once he's in a gait, he maintains that speed and rhythm until you tell him to change it. He doesn't get to decide that for you.

Don't keep asking for forward. If you feel the horse is slowing down when you take the pressure off him, then get after him big quickly. You will probably need to really make him mad the first couple of times because he's going to want to ignore you. Get that response, then release the pressure. Be serious about this. Ask clearly, be clear in what you want. Get the response you want as quickly as possible and then leave him alone to do his job. 

It's going to be ugly for a wihle. You're going to look like an idiot at first. Just accept that fact and focus on the problem at hand. Don't give up on yourself or your horse. Once you are consistent with what you expect from your horse, and your horse understands what is expected of him, then it'll take the lightest aids to get that big forward trot he'll need in order to move up in dressage. However, if all you've told him is that you're satisfied with a jog trot, then he's going to insist that you let him do that.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Those are good suggestions. I also thought of one more. I think if you can change sports for awhile and REALLY get him in terrific shape--maybe some endurance riding?--he'll find the Dressage work easier to do. Hope this helps. =D


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## Doodlesweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

Have a funny(ish) story. Yesterday I was jump crew for two of my horses. We were down in the mud field. My big horse slid and fell down turning towards the cavaletti. Horrified I rushed to the scene. The rider was fine but horse didn't move. Oh my God, I thought, he's broken his leg! Heart sank! Instead he was lying there EATING 
GRASS!!! What a character. It's not really that funny of a story. Still feel a bit sick when I think of it - mostly for the rider. But also for my big big baby!

What's interesting is I was riding him on Saturday, really working on quiet leg, core strength, sitting back, walk, trot, canter transitions. My mother was there watching me telling me I'd made tremendous improvements! She says to wake him up, keep him awake, work his head a little to keep him from getting bored. Which I donever so gently.

Then I thought and let it go through my body fully, somehow, OK, big guy, let's get this thing into the next gear! And HE DID! Must have been 12 beats of pure flying and it scared the crap out of me so we woa - ed. 

That's what happened when the other girl flipped him yesterday. I told her he has a whole 'nother gear I've only seen once. He just loses control of his feet sometimes. Which is very dangerous when he is going into the next gear. 

Might need to get a vest.

PS We do endurance in the fall. It's the thing he loves the most.


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

When my horse is being a lazybone we canter off the wall, even getting into two point to just let him go (two point is really hard in a dressage saddle), doing circles while giving him his whole neck, taking legs off, sitting like I'm made of rubber, then slowly collecting him. At this point I look like an idiot but he is happy. Being off the wall naturally makes him want to go faster and simultaneously makes us work on straightness. He is a completely different horse after. We also alternate between collecting and extending movements in the trot to energize him and make him respond quickly - like half-pass to extended trot to half-pass along one diagonal. This makes him go from looking like a soggy old lesson horse whose soul has been crushed to a fancy pants dressage horse.


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

More motivational stories as I'm suddenly quite interested in this entire subject. The day my trainer made that statement, "If you can see Max do that stuff out in the pasture then you know he can do it," it really inspired me. I have a little NSH and boy, can be TROT. Sometimes if he gets frisky he can extend himself so much that he looks suspended in air and needs to wear bell boots because he clips the backs of his front feet-

When he is plodding in the arena and I can't seem to make him move faster I remember him like that and just really ask for it- he eventually gets as excited about it as I am and we go, go! It's the best feeling ever to really get that impulsive forward energy! 

So long story short I guess when you feel your horse could fall asleep on you under saddle it means in a way that you are falling asleep a bit too- they really tune into the energy that you send them, and if you amp that energy up in yourself they can feel it and respond to it too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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