# I think alot of people are confused.



## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I always see people online and in real life ask "I've been riding english my whole life and I want to ride western but I think it will be hard", "My horse has been trained in western so she cant do English or dressage", Or people will go look at a horse to buy and ask what disciplines they can do and the owner says to them "Western, this horse doesn't have a English bone in his body". 

The truth is that pretty much the only difference in these disciplines is what tack they use and what he/she wears. Will a horse excel more in one discipline than the other?, Yes. But any horse and any rider can do any discipline. Dressage is the basis of all riding, if your horse is under saddle and riding it's doing some type of dressage. The major difference in disciplines is showing and how you are scored. ​


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I agree!!

Especially living in AUS; We don't have the big English/Western divide that you guys do, so it's so strange to me hearing people ask can their horse do western/english... It's all riding!!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Exactly! =)


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

I love riding both!


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I couldn't agree more. It rather angers me when people say "My horse wont like western" or "he can't ride english". Argg. Its just a different bit and a different saddle. No huge life changing actions there


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I just love riding, and I don't really do either!


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

In an ideal world. all riders should learn to ride English and Western because essentially the two systems were devised to cope with the work the horse and rider was doing. There is no "best" system but there is best for purpose.
A barrel racer would make an ideal polo pony.
A British Pony Club pony would make an ideal barrel racer.


Nowadays we choose the tack according to the game we want to play with our horse.
B G


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## horseluver2435 (May 27, 2009)

I think I understand what you're getting at, and for people, this is true. People can ride different 'styles' (English, Western, dressage, etc.) b/c they are simliar, but some horses are truly suited to one style. My horse Rainy, for example, has the worst sitting trot, and if you attempted to ride her Western (which I have, twice), you would quickly discover that because of her speed and little quirks, she is better suited to English. I don't know if that's what you meant, but that's MHO on it.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> My horse Rainy, for example, has the worst sitting trot, and if you attempted to ride her Western (which I have, twice), you would quickly discover that because of her speed and little quirks, she is better suited to English. I don't know if that's what you meant, but that's MHO on it.


Then how would you do sitting trot in a dressage test? I can't think of anything a horse does that is exclusively either western or english... everything is done in both styles, just in different ways.


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## RoCru (Jul 19, 2009)

Very well said!


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## RedRoan (Mar 2, 2009)

Hehe I post in western all the time!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Agreed! There is a racehorse trainer in Kentucky that breaks the 2 year olds with Western tack (he was spotlighted in Western Horseman, I think, last year).

I sold Bobo (AQHA Lintons Hangin Judge) nearly 2 months ago. For his 12 years of life, he was a trained cattle horse - his breeder trained him as a turnback horse, and his two owners before me worked cattle. I just was looking at some pictures of him in English tack and he was going beautifully. They plan on jumping him latter this summer.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Exactly. Moves people see as exclusively western or english really aren't, they may be done differently, but still a form of them exists in both disciplines. A good, well trained horse is a good, well trained horse no matter what tack it is ridden in or what discipline it is ridden in. Showjumpers use haunch turns to make sharp corners in jump offs, Cutters and Campdrafter use leg yeilding and lateral movements to stay with the cattle, and so on and so forth.


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## TimeChaser (Jan 13, 2009)

I totally agree! I ride barrel and pole horses but they all have a "dressage" foundation - that is to say they have great basics. I also take lessons from a dressage instructor. Riding is riding and that is all there is to it.


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## o0hawaiigirl0o (Aug 8, 2008)

Equestriun said:


> The truth is that pretty much the only difference in these disciplines is what tack they use and what he/she wears. Will a horse excel more in one discipline than the other?, Yes. But any horse and any rider can do any discipline. Dressage is the basis of all riding, if your horse is under saddle and riding it's doing some type of dressage. The major difference in disciplines is showing and how you are scored.​


I don't completely agree with that. I am an English rider and have done dressage for about eight years. This year I started riding a Western Pleasure horse. What a difference! I had to learn how to get him on the bit, how to hold the reins, etc. I'm thankful that I was able to get a few lessons on him because they taught me so much. It wasn't a very difficult switch, but it wasn't easy either. The main thing for me was getting used to no having consistant contact on his mouth.

I also don't believe that any rider or horse can do any discipline. I know that with sensitive horses, barrel racing would just tweak their minds. 
Hm, now that I think about it, let me rephrase: Not every horse or rider can do well in any discipline. Because horses and riders have different personalities and body types they are not all able to foxhunt one day, rope cattle, and do 4th Level dressage on the weekend. Truth be told, some horses can't jump higher than 2ft, some horses don't have cow sense, and some can't collect (or extend) their gaits to a higher degree.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

When I sell a horse, I say something more along the lines of he's been ridden english, western or dressage. I don't see any reason a western horse can't go english or vice versa. I have seen a few english horses get a little spooked by the weight of a western saddle, but once they're used to the different tack, there's no big difference other, than of course ... contact on the bit.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

We bought a 10 year old TB that started off on the track then on to English and jumping, strictly an arena horse. We tried to turn her into a western trail horse. She did learn to neck rein in a few hours but she never learned to relax in the great wide open. I agree its a very individual horse sort of thing. Some horses can do it all, some are just too high strung for all around work. Others are too lazy or laid back for running barrels or eventing. 
One thing I've learned in the horse world, there is no black and white, only beautiful shades of grey. Never say never or alway :lol:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> Hm, now that I think about it, let me rephrase: Not every horse or rider can do well in any discipline. Because horses and riders have different personalities and body types they are not all able to foxhunt one day, rope cattle, and do 4th Level dressage on the weekend. Truth be told, some horses can't jump higher than 2ft, some horses don't have cow sense, and some can't collect (or extend) their gaits to a higher degree.


^^ This is also true within the disciplines though. An english horse may be great at dressage but can't jump. A western horse might be a great gamer but have no cow. 

Also; I don't see trail riding as a western discipline. That's just silly. All it is is riding out of the arena!


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

I disagree. A horse trained in dressage(as my new Warmblood cross is) has a very hard time putting his head down and stretching out like a Western Pleasure horse would find easy. And Vise versa, I would highly doubt that you could take a WP horse and go to a dressage show and win or even do well. I think that a horse could go in both types of riding, yes, but I don't belive that any horse can do any disapline. My Hunter/jumper mare is absalutly terrified on Cross Country, and I think my eventer would not ever place in a Hunter class. And I strongly disagree that the only diference is in the tack, if it was, then why do we all specialize and train in one disapline? Why can't everyone do everything? Because the way of making a horse do things is different, and the way they move is differnt. Just my opnion on the case.


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## ShannonSevenfold (Oct 11, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> Also; I don't see trail riding as a western discipline. That's just silly. All it is is riding out of the arena!


I strongly agree. All I do is trail ride. Once and a while I'll go out in Western tack, but I usually trail ride English. 

StormyBlues - I don't think the OP is saying you could take a WP horse to a Dressage show and expect them to do well. But with time and some training, a WP horse definately could excel in Dressage. But that's just my opinion.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

When you come down to it, wether western or english, the basis of riding is walk, trot, canter, gallop. ANY horse (excluding injuries/gaited horses) can do all of those gaits, wether they have an english saddle or western saddle on.

I guess my gripe is when people say indivual disciplines are western or english, i.e. barrels... I run barrels in a Wintec 500 and do darn well, and ditto with pole bending, etc. You could ride a dressage test in a western saddle and do well. 

I agree that movement is different, but not over the whole of western or the whole of english. It's discpline specific. 

Where would you classify campdrafting? It's done in a stock saddle mostly, in a snaffle bit with direct contact, yet it's working cattle which is seen as a 'western' discipline. It's all just riding :]


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

wild_spot said:


> ^^ This is also true within the disciplines though. An english horse may be great at dressage but can't jump. A western horse might be a great gamer but have no cow.
> 
> Also;* I don't see trail riding as a western discipline. That's just silly. All it is is riding out of the arena!*


It may not be classified as a discipline but to say its just "riding out of the arena" you have never really been trail riding. 
In the USA it is a billion dollar industry with its own tack, training methods, literature (magazines books and video). There are more trail riders and horse campers/packers in this country than there are any other "discipline" I'm sure. I'd have to do the research to back up that statement but I'm betting its true. Check out the Long riders guild I dare you, after reading about the members and founders tell them their riding is not a "discipline" 
Trail riders take enough crap from other "disciplines". We feel we have to constantly apologize for how we ride our horses. 
I for one will take my well traveled trail horse over any dressage/WP/rodeo horse. We have to do dressage moves to make it down the trail all the time. Plus our horses have to do it on the side of a mountain, through a river and/or with wildlife jumping out at them from all angles. They have to learn to be calm enough to stay out in a strange wild place for days or weeks, packing a rider and the riders gear. They have to overcome the cattle as well as the deer, moose, bobcat, cougar and bear better than any arena cow horse would. 
I for one am done apologizing for doing something I love, and that I know for a fact takes more than just "walking out of the arena" 
You need to rethink your ideas of a trail rider. Your way off base in thinking its just an easy ride around the pasture. 
If it takes "discipline", I think it deserves to be called one.


Sorry for the rant but this sort of blanket statement is the type that gets my fire lit


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

wild_spot said:


> *Where would you classify campdrafting?* It's done in a stock saddle mostly, in a snaffle bit with direct contact, yet it's working cattle which is seen as a 'western' discipline. It's all just riding :]


Under Rodeo


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## goldilockz (Aug 1, 2008)

Vidaloco said:


> It may not be classified as a discipline but to say its just "riding out of the arena" you have never really been trail riding.
> In the USA it is a billion dollar industry with its own tack, training methods, literature (magazines books and video). There are more trail riders and horse campers/packers in this country than there are any other "discipline" I'm sure. I'd have to do the research to back up that statement but I'm betting its true. Check out the Long riders guild I dare you, after reading about the members and founders tell them their riding is not a "discipline"
> Trail riders take enough crap from other "disciplines". We feel we have to constantly apologize for how we ride our horses.
> I for one will take my well traveled trail horse over any dressage/WP/rodeo horse. We have to do dressage moves to make it down the trail all the time. Plus our horses have to do it on the side of a mountain, through a river and/or with wildlife jumping out at them from all angles. They have to learn to be calm enough to stay out in a strange wild place for days or weeks, packing a rider and the riders gear. They have to overcome the cattle as well as the deer, moose, bobcat, cougar and bear better than any arena cow horse would.
> ...


This. There is a big difference in riding out of the arena, and true to form trail riding that could include packing through the mountains. I don't think English tack could ever be enough for a hardcore trail ride.

I enjoy both though!


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

^I disagree, I am WAY more comfertable in my english gear than in a western saddle, I flop around way to much.  And I definatly classify trail riding as a sport! Blue spooks at scary moving trees! She would never make it on an overnight trail ride, my poor spoiled pony...


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

I prefer an endurance saddle I guess thats a separate thread :wink:
Mine looks like this only its black


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Vida, thanks for giving voice for all us trail riders ! Couldn't have said it better! :wink:

BTW read your message in your avatar, is it time for a lighter saddle or a shorter horse?! (couldn't resist)


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

Looks comfy!


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Walkamile said:


> Vida, thanks for giving voice for all us trail riders ! Couldn't have said it better! :wink:
> 
> BTW read your message in your avatar, is it time for a lighter saddle or a shorter horse?! (couldn't resist)


Maybe for me to be less of a klutz. I have a bruised up knee from walking out of the house stepping in a hole and falling flat too. :lol: Poor me :-( :wink:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Ugh. You didn't read properly! I meant that I think it's ridiculous to classify trail riding as a *western* discipline, not that it isn't a discipline!! All I do when i'm not competing is trail ride, I don't have an arena! I don't think it's really fair to suggest i've never really been trail riding when you don't know me... I regularly ride 40km +, all weekend rides, ride the entire boundaries of the three full size properties my dad manages, ride through my city and out the other side, and many other rides. I ride among cattle, deer, snakes, sure we don't have big cats like you, but we sure have a lot of things that scare arena baby horses. I cross creeks, slide down vertical muddy hills, negotiate rocks, rabbit holes, wire. I ride in the city as well, so I ride with busses, trucks, cyclists, motorbikes, walking dogs. I am as much or MORE of a trail rider than anyone else I know, except my best friend and riding buddy Sam. That's why I hate winter, because I can't fit in a trail ride after work!

The only reason I wrote what I wrote is because I HATE when people say that trail riding is only a western discipline, you can ONLY do it in a western saddle, so on and so forth. I trail ride bareback, I trail ride in my wintec, I trail ride in my stock saddle. I trail ride in a halter, or in a snaffle. I don't know ONE person who trail rides in a western saddle.

Wow, that was the most I've ever had to defend myself on here. :[

Also, campdrafting doesn't come under rodeo. It's governed by totally seperate bodies, except for one blanket body (ABCRA, Australian Bushmans Campdraft and Rodeo Association) I'm under the SCA, Southern Campdraft Association. Rodeo is done in western saddles, campdraft is not. There are a handful of campdrafts that are run the day after a rodeo, simply to try and keep the audience there for both, but it is a stand-alone discipline, more similar to working cow horse than rodeo, and still a world away.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Sorry I made you feel uncomfortable wild_spot. I did take your meaning as a trail ride is only a "ride out of the arena" to mean a simple stroll around the field. As you have stated a trail ride can be that, but it can be so much more as well. 
I guess I'm a bit sensitive :lol:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Ditto about being sensitive :] I added the 'out of the arena' comment to try and say that trail riding isn't discipline specific I guess... I.e. You don't need a western saddle to step out of the arena.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

I think it was put up as a western discipline just because here in the US anyhow, you can 'show' in a trail class - that is 99% of the time ridden western. No offense to english or aussie riders. Hell, I agree with ya - I rode bareback on trails when I was young all the time, still do from time to time. Nothing sayin' it isn't acceptable or commonly done, either.


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

To prove that Blue is a scardy cat and we could never be like actual trail riders, I was cooling her out after a workout yesterday, just jogging and walking her around the back pastur when she just totally spooked, out of nowhere! My crazy little pony!


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## FlitterBug (May 28, 2009)

There is a correct posture and biomechanical structure for horse and rider. To achieve this, it would be the same no matter what saddle you put under your butt and on your horses back. There is a way that the muscles are to work properly, the skeletal structure is supposed to move efficiently, and there is correct balance on the legs and strength through the horses core. To achieve this in its ultimate "correct" balance, then yes, the ultimate difference between disciplines is the saddle seperating you and the horse.

However, training for different disciplines differs greatly. Try explaining a spur stop to the back yard trail rider. Both are western, but you can't compare the training of the horses, we are just classifying them by the tack on their back. Try to get the jacked up dressage horse long and low for a hunter class, both considered english, but again, different things expected, different things trained.

Unfortunately, the training involved to appease the human eye is not always the best thing for a horse. I have seen many broken down horses from their training, in all disciplines, from horses competing at high levels to the back yard rider that never understood the importance behind well fitting tack and learning to balance yourself properly.

So yes, in my opinion, english and western are just labels. I learned a lot time ago to never believe what I hear, but only what I can see. Every horse has the potential to accell in anything, however the human has to have the knowledge, physical training, and dedication to take it upon themselves to not only see the horse as a tool, but provide themselves as a tool to help the horse to its maximum potential.


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## RescueMe (Aug 4, 2009)

*English/western*

WOW - LOL - that got big  This is JUST MY opinion - I have ridden both all of my life but I lean more to the english side as a rule. I have shown jumpers and team penned cows ALL UNDER HUNT SEAT LOL  I love to ride and it matters not what saddle, or lack of, I have between myself and the horse. I actually own an Aussie saddle too ;0 So, I guess what I wanted to add is that the only differences I ever find is how the horse has been schooled - example. I good western pleasure show horse needs to 'jog' rather than 'trot" (english) - make sense? I know the gaits go by a dozen diff names: jog / trot, lope/canter etc - and on my horses there is a difference between a trot and a good slow western jog. A canter feels a bit faster versus a western lope. And, now that I have said that LOL - about the only time these things apply is when I have been showing in flat/pleasure classes - I have horses that ride BOTH english and western - my horse coudnt care less about the saddle and most of my seasoned QH's could change speeds depening on the classes we were showing in. I dont know - its all complicated and Im guessing we could get 100 different explanations - but, its so good to hear other peoples takes on things - this is a FABULOUS site  Ok, thats my "in-put"


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

I think Endurance riding is it's own type of riding. They have thier own tack and it is neither western or english.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> *There is a correct posture and biomechanical structure for horse and rider. To achieve this, it would be the same no matter what saddle you put under your butt and on your horses back. There is a way that the muscles are to work properly, the skeletal structure is supposed to move efficiently, and there is correct balance on the legs and strength through the horses core. To achieve this in its ultimate "correct" balance, then yes, the ultimate difference between disciplines is the saddle seperating you and the horse.
> *
> However, training for different disciplines differs greatly. Try explaining a spur stop to the back yard trail rider. Both are western, but you can't compare the training of the horses, we are just classifying them by the tack on their back. Try to get the jacked up dressage horse long and low for a hunter class, both considered english, but again, different things expected, different things trained.
> 
> ...


Excellant post and well said!!!! *applauds*


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

We as Americans mainly ride in the western saddle becuase to us it is a most secure saddle than an English saddle, The Stock saddle is a modify English saddle to the point it is its own style, same as the plantation saddle.

The divide/ rivality, could been caused by both groups looking down on the other one. English riders in the opinion of some western riders are uppity rich snobs and can't do anything outside the rings. Western rider ain't nothing as a rider since they don't do classic dressage moves. i am sure there are plenty of others reasons. But to the average American who riders westerns ask him or her to described an English rider.And the would talk and and person who is either a member of the Pony club or an competor in one of the events. An English rider can say what they think about a western rider. 
But to the trail rider the imagine of the cowboy is part of the reason, plus they are in the saddle for hours at a time is part of it.


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## trvlingheart (Aug 4, 2009)

goldilockz said:


> This. There is a big difference in riding out of the arena, and true to form trail riding that could include packing through the mountains. I don't think English tack could ever be enough for a hardcore trail ride.
> 
> I enjoy both though!


 
My mom and I used to camp/pack through mountains and do trail riding and endurance riding in our english tack.. There is nothing like being out in an english saddle a pair of hiking boots and a big pack on the rider's back. We only owned engilsh tack, we didn't show, 95% of our riding was out on the trail from sun up to sun down. I would choose an english saddle over a western any day, because I'm just more comfortable in it.  But I'm thinking of buying an Australian style or Endurance saddle for the next saddle I buy.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

_



This. There is a big difference in riding out of the arena, and true to form trail riding that could include packing through the mountains. I don't think English tack could ever be enough for a hardcore trail ride.

I enjoy both though! 

Click to expand...

_ 
_I missed this!! I don't own a western saddle so all I trail ride in is my english saddle. What does an english saddle lack that inhibits trail riding? A horn? If I need something to grab I grab mane, but I never do..._


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

I too don't see why english can't be used for big trail rides, even though I ride western most of the time. Several of the girls I know did the shore to shore here in Michigan with english saddles. Take a look at tucker's endurance saddles - either english or western - you tell me what it looks more like. Looks like it leans more english to me. Just my 2 cents.


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