# Try to Sell My Horse - Rant!



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

I am so fed up right now. 

I am selling my horse, Casper, and it's not going to be an easy task as it is. He's got navicular, for one, and needs corrective trimming and shoeing. He's also got respect-under-saddle issues that I am not experienced enough to work through, nor do I have time to. He rears, runs through the bit, and in the past ducked out of jumps with no warning. He bucks with no warning too. English saddle, western saddle, bareback, halter and lead or bridle it does not matter, he is just unreliable and not a trustworthy mount, nor a pleasure to ride. I've been injured more than once on this horse, with the latest being a fracture to two of my fingers when he galloped up a hill he wasn't supposed to and I jammed them. 

His saving grace is that he has great ground manners and a sweet personality on the ground if you get him alone. He is aloof at pasture.

So far, I just have him listed on equinenow.com. I'm asking $500 for him, just as a base so he won't end up on a meat truck. I plan to drop the price or even offer him free to the right home. I have outlined his issues and have tried to weigh them out with his attributes. As I expected, there has not been much interest. But here's why I'm angry:

Guy calls about horse, wants to come look, so I set up an appointment with him. He's a no-show. Didn't even call. Waste of my valuable time!

A 14 year old girl asks me if I could hold him until mid-summer for her when she has enough money to buy her first horse and if I could transport him. Wow, that just disgusts me.

SERIOUSLY?!?!?!


----------



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unfortunately, that's the way it goes when selling a horse. Very few "buyers" come through with their word. And then there's the young kids to deal with.

To be honest, I'd put that horse down. He's a money pit, he's dangerous, and he's completely unreliable. As much as you don't want to hear it, It's in his best interest to put him to sleep.

You can never guarantee the home he'll go to. Even if they seem great, once you sell him, you can never take that decision back. With him having navicular and under-saddle problems, it's just not worth it to rehome him. What happens if he seriously injures the person you have sold him to? I've seen court cases where they have come back on the previous owner for selling them a dangerous horse.

You really should weigh your options and decide what's best for the future of the horse. :-( If he were mine, I'd put him to sleep.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Do you have any horsey friends that could put the word out to find a good home for your horse? With his issues, I would not list him, free or any price, I would try to find a home for him through a network of friends, if I could not, it's either keep him or as Claporte suggested, which is probably kinder than going to strangers at a low price.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

That has crossed through my mind before, I do admit. I am a little uncertain what to do with him because he wasn't always like this. He doesn't rear big, and he usually does it when he decides he doesn't want to go forward and wants to turn around. If you correct him with the other rein, he'll go up. If you correct him with your leg very firmly, he is usually okay. 

I guess I have figured that since he is so great on the ground, he'd be good as a pasture pet, in which then he would be free. Another person suggested I have someone run him through an auction. I guess I honestly don't want to pay for euthanasia and the disposal of the body, and I think someone much more experienced could find some use of him. A lot of it is linked to buddy sourness. When I got him, he was pretty good. Bucked a bit at the canter, but nothing that would unseat you. Jumped everything, never took off. 

Now it's all changed, and I wonder if my handling has just been ineffective. My other two horses have their quirks, but they are both very honest and have never given me these issues, so I am unfamiliar with them.

Sigh...


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I think you have to look at this like any other medical expenses. If your horse NEEDS something, he needs it. As a horse owner that is the risk and responsibility you need to accept. Personally I wouldn't give this horse away for two reasons, 1. He is dangerous and I would few HORRIBLE if something got seriously injured due to his behavior 2. I don't want my horse to end of in the hands of some shmuck who beats and starves my horse... Because he is bound to end up in the wrong hands. 

Do what's best for your horse!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

1) par for the course a no show. probably had second thoughts on a lame crippled horse.
2) it does not sound like your horse is not safe for a child to ride (14 is a child even though some dont think they are )
3) Cal Porte gave you the best option for this horse.
He sounds like the kind that end up at the auction after getting someone hurt, or ends up there very lame and starved.


----------



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

You would rather run him through an auction then put him to sleep?

His poor behavior could very well stem from him being in chronic pain due to the navicular.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Cal Porte.. guess it will come down to Money over whats best for this poor horse


----------



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

Could you post a link to his ad? How old is he? Is he the horse in your avatar?


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

No, that's just what another horse person I know suggested. I don't really want to put him to sleep either though if I don't have to because while he does have the navicular, he is sound at pasture and is happy. So it seems like I should keep him. But I'm a college student and really cannot afford a horse that is, yes, a money pit right now, especially since he comes with no benefits (unless you call getting your fingers laid up for 6-8 weeks a benefit lol). 

I'm at home now but am thinking about moving out next fall and going to a different school in another state. I would take my one horse with me, maybe my second depending on boarding costs, or I know a few people that would love to free lease or lease or buy my second horse. But I couldn't take this one with me, nor do I know anyone that would have a use for him, unlike my golden oldie. And I can't leave him at home because my parents know nothing about horses and don't like him as it is. 

For me, it feels awful that, in order to move away, I must kill my happy, pretty healthy horse. I understand where you all are coming from completely and do agree with you, it's just...can I do that? O.O


----------



## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Honestly, for a horse who is a danger, who is worth less than its cost, it would be better to give it a humane end than a questioning one if you sell or take it to the auction. 

You might feel guilty for it, but it seems like the better option out of living a life of pain, or uncertainty.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

maybe, leaving the one horse home, and coming home on weekends would work,


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

stevenson said:


> Cal Porte.. guess it will come down to Money over whats best for this poor horse


I don't appreciate comments like this on my thread, especially since I really cannot explain the whole ordeal through the Internet because that would take pages. I can just try. 

In the future, please keep your snide remarks to yourself. They are not helpful nor do they have a place on the forum. Thanks.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I understand sweetie, it's hard. But it's part of life, and owning creatures, you have to make the hard decisions, this is just the start. You will have to make decisions that will make your heart heavy, but your life livable and affordable. Adulthood really sucks sometimes.


----------



## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

Amen to adulthood sucking sometimes.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The problem with navicular is it's painful and may remain painful even with corrective shoeing. Then you ask him to carry the weight of a saddle and rider, then ask him to go over jumps. I think he's trying to tell you it's all too painful. You can't go by how he runs around in a pasture or arena because in the wild, the lame or gimpy horse is the one that's singled out for dinner. So he may not display any soreness at this time. Sometimes these horses do better as driving horses pulling a light cart.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

I haven't jumped him at all since his diagnosis, and it's been pretty light riding that I've been doing, maybe half an hour occasionally is all. See, it is hard to determine what is behavioral and what is physical. When I ride him, I do try to feel if he's a little off, but you're right, some horses can mask it. 

Now if only I knew anything about driving lol....kidding.


----------



## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Well you can 
1, put him down, he has meat truck written all over him if a new home decides they dont want him.
2, find someone who needs a companion horse.
I think his behavior issues are related to his Navicular and he will never be riding sound. It might be kindest to put him down.

My mare is too much horse for most people, she is a arabian with no papers and is 19 years old. I won't even try to sell her if i had to, as i already stopped her from going to auction once, and i know she will end up there again. I would put her down, as hard as it is it would be the best for her.


----------



## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

He could end up on a meat truck no matter what you're asking for him. Multimillion dollar racehorses have died in slaughterhouses.

He has an incurable hoof condition which pretty much puts his riding days behind him, so in my mind, his dangerous vices under saddle become a moot point. Being ridden with navicular isn't doing him any good, and chronic pain might have something to do with his problems. He's a pasture ornament one way or another.

He's going to be difficult, if not impossible to rehome, so you may have to make some hard decisions about what's in his best interest. Sorry I couldn't be more comforting, but I really don't think there's a home for him out there.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Corazon Lock said:


> I guess I honestly don't want to pay for euthanasia and the disposal of the body,
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh...


Sigh is right!!!

*This is a part of horse ownership.*

You need to take responsibility for your horse. There are thousands of horses just like yours waiting to be a buddy, or a pasture ornament, or a pet. What makes you think yours will get that one home that turns out well? Do your horse and yourself a favor put him to sleep and you will be able to sleep at night. Don't shirk your responsibility by trying to pawn it off on someone else.


----------



## Nikkibella (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm going to try to be a little lighter than everyone else. Although, I was just forced to put my 5 YO with navicular to sleep 4 months ago for the same reasons. 

I tried to sell Phoenix as a pasture pet, one older lady was interested because he was barefoot and comfortable and she lived in the area so he could keep his farrier that knew his feet well and he was 18.2 and all legs but the biggest sweetie ever! She ended up not wanting to take on a horse when he hubby began having health problems. 
I also tried getting ahold of EVERY rescue withing about 200 miles of us and not many wanted a horse with navicular for fear that no one would adopt him and the ones that were interested had a track record of sending horses to the slaughterhouse when they weren't adopted quickly. 
So, the only logical thing to do was to put him to sleep where he can run his heart out comfortably in the clouds. RIP Phoenix. 

Anyway, if you're going to try to sell him, be VERY up front about EVERYTHING. 
He has navicular. He has behavior issues. He's buddy sour. Everything. You can also tell the people to contact you if they can no longer keep him. 
He can't decide where he wants to go, that's for you to decide and I don't believe that "this horse has meat truck written all over him" I know plenty of people who have minis/ ponies with navicular and they keep them comfortable as pasture pets. It will probably be harder to find a home for a full sized horse, but not impossible. And I don't believe that he is destined for the meat wagon because of him being given away. 
Putting him to sleep will be the most comfortable for him but will be a BI*CH for you. No doubt. People can say what they want about "that's part of horse ownership" but no one gets a horse expecting things to end up like this. And frankly, I don't see how it wouldn't be a hard decision for any horse owner. I don't care if you have a "special bond" with the horse or not, if you owned that horse for any amount of time and have an ounce of a heart, it hurts to put down a friend. 

Didn't mean for this to be so long, just trying to not be so dark.. I will be following this thread to see what you decide for your boy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Corazon Lock said:


> I don't appreciate comments like this on my thread, especially since I really cannot explain the whole ordeal through the Internet because that would take pages. I can just try.
> 
> In the future, please keep your snide remarks to yourself. They are not helpful nor do they have a place on the forum. Thanks.


Weren't you the one that wrote this sentence? "I guess I honestly don't want to pay for euthanasia and the disposal of the body,"

So the comment about it coming down to money is justified, and doesn't need pages to explain it.

Nothing snide about what they wrote, when you yourself wrote you didn't want to spend the money to PTS and disposal.

Truth has a place on the forum. You wrote it, own it.


----------



## ForeverSunRider (Jun 27, 2013)

If you don't want to pay the vet bill, can you pay someone to shoot him? Not the nicest way to do things, but cheaper. 

My dad runs a rendering plant. Everyone and their uncle in our neighborhood calls him when they have a family pet they can't afford to put down and who wouldn't get any enjoyment out of living and he goes and shoots them and disposes of the body. He's done this for dogs, cats, goats, sheep, cattle, horses, and hogs. 

We had a horse with that disease and he was sent to the sales. He looks EXACTLY like the horse in your avatar. Thus my previous question on this thread. 

But yeah, the sales is the most likely landing place for him. It's sad but true.


----------



## kiwi79 (Nov 11, 2011)

Sounds like a tough situation to be in :-| I think if I was in your position I would be leaning towards euthanasia - as horrible and heartbreaking as I would find it. At least you would have the small comfort of knowing he did not end up in a terrible situation - the options for a horse with this many issues are pretty limited. Even if you did find a home for him as a pasture pet could you really be sure that he would be getting the vet care he required for his navicular. Although the upfront cost of euthanasia might put you off he is probably costing you a fair bit now as it is. 
I hope you manage to make the decision that is right for both of you, keep us updated.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

ForeverSunRider said:


> If you don't want to pay the vet bill, can you pay someone to shoot him? Not the nicest way to do things, but cheaper.


Shooting them, if done correctly, is much more humane than chemical euthing as it's pretty much instantaneous. It's just that it's horrific for the humans watching as it's bloody, violent, and quite shocking to see an animal fall over dead. 

OP, you're the one who stated you didn't want to spend the money on him, so that's on you. It doesn't really matter what rationale you use to try and justify it.

The horse is difficult to deal with, crippled, and in pain. Instead of trying to pawn your problem off on someone else, it's time to come to grips and do the right thing, which is put him down. 

I have no words, or at least not very nice ones, for people who try to shirk this last, unpleasant responsibility to their animals and expect someone else to shoulder the burden. 

Please put on your big girl panties and do right by this poor, suffering creature. It's not owning horses that make us horse people it's how we treat them, especially when they need released from pain, that determines whether we're just owners or truly dedicated horse people.


----------



## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

If he is pasture sound, look for someone who needs a pasture buddy. There are people out there who will take a navicular horse and let it loaf around. A friend of mine adopted a navicular horse from a rescue for this purpose. He needs corrective shoeing and can't be ridden. He is pasture sound, fat, happy and all his needs are met through her. 

You are marketing the horse as a riding mount. If you don't want to put him down, market him as something he is capable of doing.

You can't possibly sell this horse as a rideable horse. No one will want him as a mount. Either give him away as a pasture puff or put him down.

Please excuse typos and/or autocorrections


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

Okay, yeah, I did say I didn't want to pay to euth him. But I didn't say I wanted to auction him off either. Inflammatory remarks are just rude and unhelpful. Sorry if you think otherwise, but I was taught to play nice to people even if you disagree with them.

This horse is not suffering in any way either. I would gladly euth him if he was. But he is happy and sound out to pasture. So euthing him, yes, seems like a waste of money and a life. 


I was told by my vet that navicular is by no means a death sentence. There are different options that I have not tried due to the fact I don't really use him much. I haven't tried shoes yet because my pasture is so muddy it would probably suck the shoes off. 

I think he still has a use for someone out there, just not me. I don't know about his rideability because there are different avenues you can take. Otherwise, he would make a lovely horse for ground work or to teach ground work.


----------



## sea (May 15, 2014)

Euthanizing is hard. So hard. Even faced with my girl's extremely and obviously painful colic, I was paralyzed by indecision on what to do, and when I finally agreed to have her put to sleep, I questioned if it was the right decision for months, even years after. So on an apparently healthy, happy horse, I know the decision must be even harder.

Like everyone else said, it is part of being a responsible horse owner. And I also agree that euthanizing is probably the safest bet for everyone involved. No chance of someone getting hurt. No chance of him going to an abusive home. No chance of having someone banging at your door saying that you sold him under false pretenses and now they're suing you, or demanding you take the horse back. And leaving him with your parents to deal with is very unfair. 

You are running on a limited time table and budget. It sounds like you want to move on with your life. But you can't because of your horse. Be honest with yourself. You want to do what's best for the horse, but what's best for YOU is also very important.

Do you really think someone is going to want him? I wouldn't, not even as a companion. (And you should ONLY be offering him as a companion. Marketing him as something you could ride is asking for trouble.) Even if he was the sweetest, most loving horse in the world, I wouldn't want to deal with navicular. There are so many free companion horses out there, and a good percentage of those horses don't have a money-sucking injury or illness like yours does. 

Good luck.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Unfortunately, that's the way it goes when selling a horse. Very few "buyers" come through with their word. And then there's the young kids to deal with.
> 
> To be honest, I'd put that horse down. He's a money pit, he's dangerous, and he's completely unreliable. As much as you don't want to hear it, It's in his best interest to put him to sleep.
> 
> ...


Are you serious?!?! You would put a horse down that needs work
LETS START PUTTING DOWN THE RIDERS AND OWNERS THAT NEED WORK! 
that's the craziest thing I ever heard! Every horse can be helped! It may take time and training but will get better!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> Are you serious?!?! You would put a horse down that needs work
> LETS START PUTTING DOWN THE RIDERS AND OWNERS THAT NEED WORK!
> that's the craziest thing I ever heard! Every horse can be helped! It may take time and training but will get better!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I would. And if you read...The majority of people that have responded agree with me.

Here's why...
He has a chronic problem that is never going to get better and only progresses.

He may not be in severe enough pain right now to show he's hurting...but the fact that he's lame under saddle...yeah...lameness is a sign of pain.

He is dangerous, bucking, rearing etc. Which leads back to him being in pain more likely then not. 

He is not reliable or safe. Selling him to someone else would be inappropriate as they could be seriously injured.

There are tens of thousands of horses that have NO chronic lameness issues...and are safe to handle, that are being sent to auctions and neglected because people can't afford horses. The economy is crap. Noone is going to PAY for this horse. He will cost much more then sound horses to keep healthy. 

Why would anyone choose a lame, unrideable horse that is going to get worse month after month over a sound horse that has just as good ground manners...and is useable.

The horse economy just cannot justify keeping these types of horses around. They are money pits and you'll never get anything beneficial out of them unless you are specifically looking for just a pasture pet. Which is less then 1% of the horse population.

All too often I see these horses run through an auction, get bought and then 30 days later get sent back to auction being they are unsound, or have injured someone. What kind of life is that? I've seen it. Lots of these horses would be better off dead. And that's a sad, but true fact.

There just is not a demand for lame, dangerous, unusable horses.

And your darn right I'd euthanize my horse with those issues before selling it to someone else. You don't just pawn your problems off on other people.

As yes...I have rescued and saved many many horses in the past 14 years. So it's not my "cold heart" talking...because I'm the first one around to help a horse in need. But I am rational about it. I see the bigger picture...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

As someone who has considered getting a companion horse for my gelding, and seriously looked into it, I would NOT take this horse as a companion horse. Too many issues, and there are plenty of companion horses available for free that don't have anything like navicular. And frankly that's all he is, at best. His issues under saddle I will guarantee you are from being in pain. Just cause a horse is pasture sound does not make it riding sound. Often the act of adding the weight of a rider is even to cause a lot of pain, let alone going faster than a walk while being ridden.


----------



## sea (May 15, 2014)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> Are you serious?!?! You would put a horse down that needs work
> LETS START PUTTING DOWN THE RIDERS AND OWNERS THAT NEED WORK!
> that's the craziest thing I ever heard! Every horse can be helped! It may take time and training but will get better!!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


...the horse has navicular. It's a progressive disease. Unless there's a miracle breakthrough cure in the next couple years, he will never get better. He will only become more and more uncomfortable.

Even ignoring his glaring vices - which are probably just symptoms of his pain - he will not improve.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Yes I would. And if you read...The majority of people that have responded agree with me.
> 
> Here's why...
> He has a chronic problem that is never going to get better and only progresses.
> ...


You can find him a home its crazy to put him down
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I suggest you take him then Kimberly, since you seem to think that navicular is cheap and easy to deal with. 

The horse is in pain, and WON'T get better. In fact, he's only going to get worse. It'll be a kindness to him to release him from his pain, instead of thinking some miracle is going to happen and someone with deep pockets is going to want an expensive, medical nightmare who will only wind up needing to be put down anyway.

That's the reality. There are worse things than a quick, painless death. Forcing this animal to stay alive and in pain is one of them.


----------



## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> You can find him a home its crazy to put him down
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No. It's not crazy. 

Sometimes humane euthanasia is the kindest thing that can be done for a horse. There was an older mare at the ranch I board at. She was pasture sound, in decent weight, on full care and doing all right although she was to all purposes retired and non-ridden. Her owners, from what I understand, had moved to Europe, but chose to leave her at the ranch and paid the bills from afar. 

Now, I'm not privy to their whole financial circumstances, but I was given to understand that they were unable to continue paying for the upkeep. They tried giving her away through an intermediary who was still living here but the only people interested were unsavory types which left her future in doubt. They chose to have her put down to prevent an uncertain future. Could she have found a home with someone good? Sure, but she could just as easily have slipped through the cracks and ended up somewhere in a lot of pain and misery. 

Sometimes, it's what someone has to do. If they're unable to bear the burden of the costs, and they love their horse dearly that's a choice that has to be made. Because if they can't keep caring for their horse and paying the bills, who's to say the next person to get the horse who doesn't have the same connection with said horse will feel the same way they do and not try to sell at auction or something like that.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Treatments

The treatments for navicular syndrome are varied and range from conservative to aggressive. They can involve therapeutic shoeing,various medications,and surgery. The response to therapy can be unpredictable and does not always correlate to the degree of lameness or radiographic abnormalities. Therefore,it generally is best to make gradual changes,working from conservative to more drastic. Many horses will respond favorably to shoeing changes and medication. If the horse’s foot has abnormal conformation,the first goal should be to get the foot back in balance; changes should be made gradually,and the response to changes carefully noted.

Shoeing Treatment

If the axis between the coffin bone and the short pastern bone is broken,the hoof angle should be changed gradually so that normal alignment is obtained. Underrun and contracted heels should be corrected.

Remember that blood flow through the foot is largely dependent on the pumping action of the normal foot. As pressure is applied to the heel of the foot,the heels expand,compressing the digital cushion under the sole and pumping blood throughout the foot. The blood flow through the foot thus can be negatively affected by the application of tight-fitting shoes and the placement of nails in the heel area. Poor foot conformation also can contribute to poor blood flow. All horses should have a rim of extra shoe onto which the heels can expand. The nails should be kept as far forward as possible to maintain normal foot health.

Other changes to help the horse suffering from caudal heel pain include trimming the toe as short as possible and utilizing round (rocker) or squared-toe shoes. This encourages easy breakover and reduces stress forces up the front of the limb. Farriers often will set the shoe back slightly from the toe,again to encourage breakover. They will also frequently shoe with a full-fitting heel,allowing normal heel expansion.

Some practitioners and farriers feel that applying a small pad to raise the angle of the foot will decrease the tension on the flexor tendon and will benefit these horses. This might be necessary to establish a normal pastern-foot axis. The correct angle of rise will vary from horse to horse,so the rise should be gradual,watching for the best effect. The response to increased hoof angle with pads varies greatly depending on the specific problem affecting the horse,but too steep an angle can make the horse more lame.

Some horses respond well to an egg bar shoe that provides additional support to the caudal heel structures. Again,it is important to remember that each case has varied pathology, so each case must be treated individually when applying therapeutic shoeing.

Medical Treatment

Medication generally involves the use of an anti-inflammatory drug such as phenylbutazone (Bute),and works better in some cases than others. Depending on the horse’s work schedule and the cause of his pain,you might be able to only dose him on days surrounding work,thereby minimizing total dosing. The specific medication program should be worked out by your veterinarian.

Many cases of navicular syndrome respond to therapeutic shoeing and varied degrees of anti-inflammatory therapy. If you are showing, remember that you must stay within the limits for the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) if showing under American Horse Shows Association (AHSA) rules. Many horses with navicular syndrome remain sound enough for AHSA competition through the use of therapeutic shoeing and allowable NSAID dosing programs. This becomes a different issue when the horse is showing at Federation Equestre Internationale (FEI) competitions due to their "zero tolerance" drug rules.

Another popular drug used in the treatment of navicular syndrome is isoxsuprine,which is a vasodilator and addresses the decreased blood flow aspects of these disease processes. The effectiveness of isoxsuprine in the treatment of navicular syndrome is somewhat controversial, with some research showing a positive response and some not supporting its use. (In my experience,the therapeutic response to isoxsuprine has not been very impressive,but as we have learned in this article,navicular syndrome has some factors that might respond to this therapy and others that won’t.)

There have been cases of positive drug tests for isoxsuprine under AHSA rules. (Isoxsuprine is not allowed and requires a medication report and 24 hours off the drug before competition.) Some of these positive tests were on horses which were not intentionally given the drug,but were exposed to it by eating from feed tubs that once contained it from another horse. (Wash those feed buckets!)

Two other drugs being evaluated for their ability to improve circulation to this area of the foot are pentoxifylline and metrenperone,but much more research needs to be performed before their clinical usefulness in the horse can
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Speed Racer said:


> I suggest you take him then Kimberly, since you seem to think that navicular is cheap and easy to deal with.
> 
> The horse is in pain, and WON'T get better. In fact, he's only going to get worse. It'll be a kindness to him to release him from his pain, instead of thinking some miracle is going to happen and someone with deep pockets is going to want an expensive, medical nightmare who will only wind up needing to be put down anyway.
> 
> That's the reality. There are worse things than a quick, painless death. Forcing this animal to stay alive and in pain is one of them.


If I were in the area I would in a heart beat has she tried to fix it yet or just chooses not to my opinion she's hasn't yet tried to correct the problem! And you all just say put him down NO GIVE HIM A FIGHTING CHANCE
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kim, we know there are treatments and medications to help. But there simply is no cure. They will never get better. Your treating the symptoms...not the disease.

Longterm use of Bute and NSAIDs will cause ulcers. Then you have expensive ulcer treatment on top of expensive navicular treatment.

Your talking thousands of dollars between shoes, medications, farrier and vet visits, xrays etc. Who is going to spend thousands on a horse like this? A horse that will never get better. A horse that cannot be ridden.

I understand your point. I do. But I would never be able to afford that. And every horse person I know would never take on a horse like this, because of the cost involved. It's just not feasible for 99% of the horse population.

So your looking for that 1% that could financially take a horse like this...and with the tens of thousands of horses that are free/cheap right now...and have no issues...who would take a horse with these issues when they could find one that is useable in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

Kim, I think of it like this: why would you want to compromise his quality of life with possibly painful treatments that won't fix him?

I'd much rather put him down when he's happy and healthy and in minimal pain. So his last moments and memories are happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

"You can find him a home its crazy to put him down"

did just that--crippled during training--should have been put down i thought the day it happened--God had a plan! after spending alot of $ and time bringing him back slowly and realizing during the middle of a drought that numbers had to be reduced--donated him to a "place" that seemed flawless. watched him humbly lower his head to the ground upon being turned loose in middle of pasture then took off running, bucking and then settled into a floating gait around the pasture.....the sheer joy of seeing him at least that sound and being under the impression that he would bring "hands on" therapy to those in need at his "forever" home left me feeling ecstatic!!!

i found myself at the local salebarn 2-3 yrs later for no reason that i could see--just one of those THINGS--had not been there in yrs!!! being run as unsound, unbroke--headed for the meat pen!!! yep. but i take my responsiblity as a horsewoman very seriously--i brought him into this world--i did not intend to let him suffer the trip nor the method!!! i outbid the killer to bring him home--i would rather put a bullet cleanly in his head than to lay awake at night with the only closure being that i knew what and how!!! 

at the risk of repeating myself--God had a plan! i have now rode him--yes at a walk only...but he can still do a job now as little a job as it will be...but he has purpose--something every horse needs...the day he is in pain or cannot get up is the day i will put him down. he will not be leaving my stewardship alive again...so--home has become his "forever" home!!! 

the only reason i am sharing this is to give an example of how little control we have once they are out of our lives--i did not just pass him off--had a return contract that was not honored--would have cost me more than the ck i wrote out that day to have pushed that...so i let that go. read this and think before you "pass" him on.

God bless you.


----------



## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

I understand where the OP is coming from.

Let me just make it clear that I know nothing, zip, zero about navicular. If I were in her situation it would come down to this: 

-Is the horse in pain being a pasture pet? If not, do your best to re-home him as a lawn mower. Get in contact with your vet, he may be able to help you find a suitable home. Do not ask for money for this horse and do not advertise him online. He is not a riding horse, it's time to stop advertising him as such. 

If the answer to the question is yes, then you know what you need to do. You just have to wrap your mind around doing it. I realize it's incredibly hard. I have a pasture pet (sound for a light rider at a walk only) myself that I took on with full knowledge of his medical issues. There will come a time when he is not even pasture sound and he will be euthanized. It's going to break my heart because he is a great, kind, animated horse. But that was the deal I made with him, to give him the best life I possibly could until the time comes when he is in chronic pain. 

We have a local rescue here that runs a low cost euthanasia program. One Sunday each month you can drop your horse off for euthanasia. They will evaluate any medical conditions and how adoptable they are. If it's determined the horse has a chance at being adopted they will put him in the adoption program instead of being euthanized. It does cost something, but the horses get a chance.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

The hard thing with navicular is that it is different in every horse. My boss at work shared a horse with one of my previous coworkers that had navicular. The horse after several years is sound yo ride as long as he gets special shoes. A lot of people have told me that changing the hoof angle can help immensely. Casper has long pasterns, so I am sure that does not help him. There are many success stories with navicular horses. It just depends. I have yet to get Casper shod, so we'll see. 

I think I'll ask my vet about it when my other two horses get their Coggins done on Monday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

As much as it saddens me to suggest this, I am agreeing with others that have said putting him down would be the kindest thing for him. 

Pasture buddies are a dime a dozen. Many rescues will give them away free of charge, but unfortunately this horse has the double whammy of a serious, degenerative health problem, as well as some extremely dangerous habits that can and HAVE resulted in someone being injured. I have said, many times before, that a horse without a job (and I'm sorry, but standing around and eating is not a "job") is a horse without much of a future. 

If this were simply a matter of manners or something that training could solve, absolutely find him a new home. Someone might enjoy the project and the challenge, and an otherwise sound and able-bodied horse should be given a chance. 

But the deck is stacked against this horse. He has 3 strikes against him already- Health, behavioral, and the fact that at least one of those conditions will NEVER improve no matter what. His chances of finding a home that is able to both deal with his issues and is willing to put the money into keeping him comfortable as his condition degenerates over time are extremely remote. 

His future is terrifyingly uncertain. Even with a contract (which honestly, are almost totally unenforceable, so they're not worth the paper they're printed on), his risk of abuse, neglect, or slaughter are sky-high. 

Were this me, I would end his journey here, rather than let him go into a terrifyingly uncertain future. You have his best interests at heart - and crossing the Bridge in a place where he is loved and taken care of is not a terrible fate. 

I know it hurts to think about. I have had to make tough choices and let go of animals I dearly loved for similar reasons. No matter which road you take, it won't be easy.

A suggestion I might make - are there any large-animal rescues (wolves, lions, tigers, etc) within driving distance? It sounds HORRIBLE, I know - but these creatures need to eat, too. A friend of mine once took two of his neighbor's horses (one had severe, serious navicular, the other cancer) and donated them to a local wolf preserve. The preserve took care of the euthanasia, and the horse's final act was to ensure that a worthy, cash-strapped organization was able to feed it's charges. 

I know it's not a NICE thought, but it is a thought.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Equinesnfelines..
See there is some one for every horse and death is not always the answer.. if he is in complete and uder pain yes! But he seems to be fine on ground just tense under saddle so I get that he is only in pain under saddle and work.. he would make a good pasture buddy plain and simple.. people here are careless when they just think kill it its better off
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Mulefeather I doubt she's gonna want her horse eating by tigers or wolves..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> Mulefeather I doubt she's gonna want her horse eating by tigers or wolves..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They euthanize the horse first...


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

SullysRider said:


> They euthanize the horse first...


Still the thought though? I'm not sure how close she is to her horse but I couldn't do that..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

"His future is terrifyingly uncertain. (thank you Mulefeather) Even with a contract (which honestly, are almost totally unenforceable, so they're not worth the paper they're printed on), his risk of abuse, neglect, or slaughter are sky-high." 

exactly the point i tried to make--except that this horse's future was certain as he was headed for the killer pen--the "contract" would only have been enforcable if i had a court order with me...i did not have a plan to be there as i had no idea he was being run thru there as i had seen evidence of him "happy" on the pasture just 2 wks prior!!!

"See there is some one for every horse and death is not always the answer.."

kimberlyrae1993---point totally missed!!! (shame on my long winded self) by the way--his beautiful pasture mate--i felt no responsibility to and could barely afford what i did...but she was "fat"!!! the packer outbid any and all who would have wanted her...!


----------



## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

So I have a small story for you, its slightly off topic, but somewhat applies to your situation.

When I was 22 I had 2 little dogs, Bart and Lisa. Well I bought my first house when I was 22 too...well it was a 3 level townhouse (no yard). I'd had Bart and Lisa since I was about 9, so they were about 12-13 years old. They were very cute and happy little dogs but were starting to have their issues and I was moving to a house with a lot of stairs. I knew I couldn't leave them with my parents, and I knew bringing them into a new home at that age and with that many stairs wouldn't be fair to them either. I took them both to the vet and put them down. Did I feel bad about it? Yes. But you know what? They ended their lives as happy dogs, not old miserable disgusting dogs that can't make it up the stairs after walks multiple times a day. I knew it was best for them, and I didn't want to put the burden of my older dogs on someone else.

I guess what I'm getting at, is sometimes you really need to look at your whole situation, and that will help you really see whats best for you and your animal. You can't leave him with your parents, you have NO idea what would happen to him if someone does take him. You say hes very happy now out in the pasture, so remember him as that, a happy horse.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> people here are careless when they just think kill it its better off
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You seem to be ignoring the fact that navicular is degenerative and expensive to treat. The horse is in pain and NOT just under saddle. 

You're the one being unrealistic and careless, as you seem to believe that it's okay to keep an animal alive who is miserable. That's cruel and inhumane, and I hope you learn some empathy, or you'll be one of those people who keep their horse alive for selfish reasons.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

Well, now you have to consider how bad the navicular is and at what rate the degeneration is moving. I know of some horses that have had navicular for a long time that have slow progression and a mild case. I think a person could work with that.

I've also heard that some people have success with barefoot treatment and corrective trims, oddly enough. I don't know the success rate or anything, but to some it may be worth a try. 

That being said, I suppose some navicular cases are terribly painful and fast-moving as well. It's just determining at what rate your horse's degeneration of the navicula is. That is what is hard for me because I only got the diagnosis in December and it's been so cold up until this past month that you can't really gauge anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Viranh (Apr 7, 2013)

You can re-home a lame (but managed) horse with excellent manners for kids/light trail riding, and you can re-home a horse that is sound and healthy but has behavioral issues to someone who wants a project. However, you just not very likely to find a home for a horse with both problems. Someone who would take him either has no experience with degenerative lameness or believes they'll be able to "fix" him, IMO, and when they find out that they can't (or how much he costs), he will probably end up on a truck to the cannery.


----------



## rydernation (Mar 12, 2014)

TBH, I was thinking the same thing as another poster: put him down. Unless you are sure that it's him and not YOU. He could just need a more experienced rider, or perhaps a more confident one? The other choice is to sell him for a nominal fee as a pasture pet. Or as a companion horse.

I'm so sorry this happened to you!


----------



## RedAce (Sep 6, 2013)

If I may give my opinion? If you want to try these treatments, try them. But realize that you can't pass these treatments and their price onto a new owner. While there are horses that can live with navicular, there is no guarantee that any treatments will work for your horse. Passing him off to another owner while trying different treatments might only prolong the period of pain-free life for a small amount of time, and there is not certainty that the new owner will keep him.
I'm so sorry that you're in this position. This is the hardest part of owning an animal. 
Putting a pet down sometimes feels like a betrayal. Unlike humans, horse's legs are under constant stress. Sometimes it's the only way to save them from physical or psychological pain.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Speed Racer said:


> You seem to be ignoring the fact that navicular is degenerative and expensive to treat. The horse is in pain and NOT just under saddle.
> 
> You're the one being unrealistic and careless, as you seem to believe that it's okay to keep an animal alive who is miserable. That's cruel and inhumane, and I hope you learn some empathy, or you'll be one of those people who keep their horse alive for selfish reasons.


Please enlighten me to where to OP says he is under constant pain?? She says under saddle but is good on the ground! I have empathy I would not let a horse suffer from this post I have not gotten that the horse is the pain you all lead him on to be!? So OP please tell is this horse in the pain that everyone says and needs to be put down? Cause if he was wouldn't they just put him down NOT REHOME HIM! the title is about selling the horse not putting him down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

I agree with RedAce. While I think neither the navicular nor the behavioral issues are a death sentence per se, I think it is very unfair to try and pass these issues off to someone else. Of course different treatment options are possible, but it is no one's responsibility but yours to ensure your horse gets treatment and training.

In my opinion, the moment you buy an animal, you are responsible. Everyone has a different opinion on what this responsibility means and entails. For me, it means that I do not sell or give away any animals, my animals stay with me till they die. I am the forever home. This also makes me very picky how many and what issues I choose to take on - a horse like yours, not a chance, sorry.

In the case of my horse, this limits me to owning just one, to spending multiples of what the horse is worth on training and vet bills, and to not riding for extended periods of time when he was recovering from unsoundness.

I am not quite sure what the "rant" is here. That not more people have responded to your ad? That selling / giving away your horse is hard? Well, you surely must have known it would be that way, anything else is naive. The magic person that comes along and fits the horse like a glove rarely exists in reality.
Obviously, you think the horse is sound and sane enough to work with, or else you wouldn't be trying to sell him. You have seen by posting your ad that other people don't want to take on that challenge (not surprising). Now it is time to own up to the commitment you made when you bought the horse. Either YOU work with him on his medical and behavioral issues, or you put him down. Which one of the two, up to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Doodlesweaver (Dec 12, 2012)

I would die before I ever allowed one of my horses to go to auction. Have you seen the pictures of what happens to those poor horses that end up going to slaughter? It is the worst thing that could possibly happen to a horse. If I couldn't afford euthanasia I would shoot the horse myself. Or have some man do it for me. You can ask around for people to help you bury him. Many people would help you because horse people hate to see an animal suffer. Can you imagine your poor horse being transported across country crammed in with other frightened horses with no food or water for the hundreds of miles it takes to get to slaughter - and with navicular pain on top of that. Some fates are truly worse than death and that is one of them. It would literally be over my dead body something like that ever happened to one of my horses.

Agree with Regula. I am their forever home.


----------



## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

RedAce said:


> If I may give my opinion? If you want to try these treatments, try them. But realize that you can't pass these treatments and their price onto a new owner. While there are horses that can live with navicular, there is no guarantee that any treatments will work for your horse. Passing him off to another owner while trying different treatments might only prolong the period of pain-free life for a small amount of time, and there is not certainty that the new owner will keep him.
> I'm so sorry that you're in this position. This is the hardest part of owning an animal.
> Putting a pet down sometimes feels like a betrayal. Unlike humans, horse's legs are under constant stress. Sometimes it's the only way to save them from physical or psychological pain.


Totally agree with you, RedAce. It's one thing for you to try these treatments and keep him yourself, it's another to try to pawn them off on someone else.

Some horses are still sane and generally pain-free under saddle with navicular, and are very useful for beginner lessons or therapeutic programs. Those horses are worth their weight in gold, IMO. A horse who has already hurt someone? Forget it. 

Sorry you've got to deal with those, OP, but I think you need to decide whether to keep him or euth him.


----------



## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

I'm going through something similar right now. I've owned my horse for FOUR MONTHS, and she now has cellulitis as a result of a kick to the thigh. I'm spending 5 hours a day, 7 days a week, at the boarding facility administering meds, walking her, and cold-hosing her (twice a day, 2-1/2 hours per visit). My vet bill are nearing $1,000 over the past week. I love my horse, but I have to be realistic: She's 16-years old, and this has a good chance of recurring any time she has a trauma (cut, kick), and it could recur for no good reason at all. It may take up to FIVE MONTHS to fully heal, and even then, there's no guarantee she'll be sound. If she's not sound, she is totally useless -- she is not viable as a companion because she LOATHES other horses. She has only had one foal during her lifetime, her lines aren't that great, and the trauma of giving birth may make her relapse again, so "brood mare" really isn't an option. I have zero intention of continuing to pay $450/month boarding for a horse that I cannot ride. 

If she develops cellulitis again, I have resolved to euthanize her. 

Why? Because this will have proved to be a chronic issue. Ethically, I CANNOT sell her to someone, knowing the consumption of time and money it takes to address this unpredictable malady. I cannot TRUST someone will address it as thoroughly as I have, and -- bottom line -- I don't want her to suffer through it again.

Sometimes, it sucks to be a responsible adult. And it sucks just as much to be saddled with an unrideable horse that is a drain on your emotions, your time and your money. (If the seller had disclosed my horse's medical history, I NEVER would have purchased her.)

Harsh? Yeah. But until you've walked miles -- in the arena, with a sick horse who's devouring your checkbook and five hours a day, seven days a week, of your time -- in my paddock boots, you'll never truly understand.

OP: I realize this situation is a drain on your checkbook, but PLEASE don't saddle someone else with this problem. Ask around until you find someone with a backhoe and a gun. Then make a date and do the right thing.

_Sorry._


----------



## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

"The title is about selling the horse not putting him down."

...but evidently (rant part) not pleased that no one wants to pay to have these kind of issues--a horse whose future physical health is at question; a horse whose discomfort may have already led to behavioral issues that may or may not have become habits regardless of level of relief from so called discomfort is just not marketable. 

the reason i have turned down 2 offers on my boy (even though i was very happy to be down to one riding horse which i already had) is that if he breaks down with me i have accepted the risk...if it happened with someone else and they were hurt or worse...it is my fault because i better than any know the extent of the original injuries from the get go...in other words--i could pass him on now but IMHO how very irresponsible that would be of me not to mention quite unfair to the horse.

no matter the situation (light riding, pasture pet, paddock purty) there are NO guarantees in life--jobs are lost, marriages/relationships fail, illness happens, etc. the one guarantee is that once out of your hands you have no control over the horses future! 


"I am not quite sure what the "rant" is here. That not more people have responded to your ad? That selling / giving away your horse is hard? Well, you surely must have known it would be that way, anything else is naive. The magic person that comes along and fits the horse like a glove rarely exists in reality."...

...even for a well behaved healthy horse!!! the market is flooded with too much to choose from and it costs as much to feed one as the other.

lest you think i do not know the pain of "putting down"--i was 21 when i could no longer claim to be keeping her alive for her good--my selfishness cost the horse of my heart 18 extra months of pain...she had her good days but they were few and far in between...i let my pride be bigger than her pain--i am still making it up to her 37 yrs later!!! rest in peace golden daughter of the desert!


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

No, the rant is going through the normal selling routine where people are not polite enough to cancel appointments to see a horse. I'm not naive and know that finding him a home could be hard, but I think no matter what the situation if you change your mind on seeing a horse, you ought to call and cancel your appointment rather than be a no-show. That's rude and is a waste of time for the seller expecting someone to show up and waiting for them too.

And I get tired of young girls who think they can buy a cheap horse or get one for free and fix it as their first horse when the ad clearly says the horse needs an experienced handler.

Again, I'm not naive enough to think that people are going to be lining up outside my door to see this horse with navicular.

I will reiterate that this horse is very sound and happy at pasture and is COMPLETELY SAFE ON THE GROUND. He'd be great for teaching someone how to handle a horse on the ground because he has such great ground manners. 

I understand this is degenerative, but again, I think each case differs, and Casper has not had this diagnosis long enough for me to know how fast he is progressing or how severe the case is. I think his usefulness depends on that.

And I never said I was taking him to auction. I mentioned someone had told me to do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1235964/

Here is some information done on navicular with horses post mortem. It might open your eyes, or shut them. Which ever.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

That article was a little too technical for me to fully grasp the findings. Could someone explain it in more common terms?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Just in my area my half way searching I've seen 15 "light riding/pasture/brood mare sound only" horses. I haven't even really began my search yet. Unsound horses ( which is exactly what he is) are everywhere. Why pass him off to an uncertain possibly horrible nasty end when you can put him down while he is somewhat happy? Why risk him injuring somebody for your own selfish wants? 

Like it or not he will most likely end up at auction and on the meat truck he has navicular and is a danger under saddle ( a combo of pain and buddy sour) do this poor horse a favor and just put him down in he familiar surroundings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

i was not meaning to be snide. It is how your comments sounded.


----------



## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Corazon Lock said:


> No, the rant is going through the normal selling routine where people are not polite enough to cancel appointments to see a horse. I'm not naive and know that finding him a home could be hard, but I think no matter what the situation if you change your mind on seeing a horse, you ought to call and cancel your appointment rather than be a no-show. That's rude and is a waste of time for the seller expecting someone to show up and waiting for them too.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I completely understand how frustrating no-shows are. The resolution to this problem is to refuse to make an appointment without getting the potential buyer's cell phone number. On the morning of the appointment, YOU can take the initiative to call the potential buyer to confirm the arrival time. At that point, the potential buyer may back-out, but at least you won't be stuck waiting around all day.


----------



## TrailTraveler (Jan 4, 2014)

Corazon Lock said:


> And I get tired of young girls who think they can buy a cheap horse or get one for free and fix it as their first horse when the ad clearly says the horse needs an experienced handler.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


First, you can cut down on this by saying in your ad that you'll only respond to potential buyers over the age of 18. Even if you did make a sale to someone under 18, there's no guarantee the sale contract would be legally-binding -- something to consider, especially if the horse is dangerous. Kid could buy it, get hurt, and the parents could sue you. (Technically, the sale could be invalidated by the kid's age, and then YOUR horse hurt the kid, so it's your fault.)

Second, young girls are notoriously naive and idealistic. They tend to think that life is a Hallmark movie, in which the young heroine is able to fix/heal/solve everything at will. Add to this the fact that young people's brains aren't fully developed til they're 25 years old, and you'll understand why dealing with teens is so difficult.

If a kid contacts you, tell her to have her parents call instead.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

TrailTraveler,
Great suggestions! THIS is what the entire post was about, not about the navicular horse and what to do with him. Dealing with people when selling/re-homing a horse is...well...how about 'can be frustrating'? 

I once had a young girl text me about a horse that I had telling me she could give it a great home. I replied and said that I would need to be in touch with her parents. No response back from her. I bet her parents had no clue.


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I dont care what this thread is about. 
Passing on a lame horse to anyone is unethical IMO. Breeding sound I can understand but I do not believe in the concept of a pasture pet.
Horses are livestock and expensive ones to maintain. Add the extra expense due to his lameness, his future prognosis, and only a fool would take him.
OP I dont mean to sound harsh but you own this horse. You have the responsibilty to ensure he is taken care of. 
You also have no way to measure his pain and he could very well have discomfort in the pasture.
As livestock owners we sometimes have to make difficult decisions about what is best for the animal.
Whatever decision you make good luck. Shalom


----------



## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

If I was looking for a pasture buddy, I would never knowingly take one on with continuous, expensive, potentially life ending medical issues like navicular. A permanently lame horse with an old, healed injury that no longer requires care? Sure. But few people WANT a money pit. There are too many sweet, good on the ground horses needing homes as pasture buddies that don't have expensive issues that will become/are painful. Unfortunately, perfectly healthy, sound horses, well trained on the ground and with no history of injuring people are a dime a dozen.

I understand you're frustrated with people wasting your time and being unrealistic. IMPO you are being unrealistic about the chances of finding your horse a home, let alone selling him. Count me among those that would rather euthanize him now while he's not in significant pain (though obviously there is some dt lameness and behavior issues) and he's relatively happy, than pass him along to a future that is almost certainly not going to be as pleasant as where he's at now.

It's not a pretty thought, I admit it. But the thought of him suffering down the road (to me) is worse. I've worked in animal rescue and sheltering, so I am all too familiar with what the realities are. Some might call it jaded, but I consider the realities of animal suffering that happen on a regular basis to be a fate worst than death. 

If my perfectly sweet and trained 9 year old QH became unridable tomorrow, I would most likely put him down, because almost no one has room or desire for a pasture pet for the next 20 years. Even those that SAY they do will likely be sending their critters to auction (or worse) in 5, 10 or 15 years from now due to 'life changes.' Once you sell/give away an animal, you have no way to prevent horrible things from happening to them, and the chances of an animal getting lucky enough to stay at a wonderful "forever home" are vanishingly small in reality. Those slots are usually taken up by those people's OWN retired and injured horses that they held on to even after they became useful only as lawn-mowers.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Corazon Lock said:


> TrailTraveler,
> Great suggestions! THIS is what the entire post was about, not about the navicular horse and what to do with him. Dealing with people when selling/re-homing a horse is...well...how about 'can be frustrating'?
> 
> I once had a young girl text me about a horse that I had telling me she could give it a great home. I replied and said that I would need to be in touch with her parents. No response back from her. I bet her parents had no clue.


That's the thing people on these threads don't read or care about your question so many go off topic add stuff and next thing you know there ranting on that your causing the horse to suffer even though you never said the horse was in the pain they all claim him to be!!!

I know what he has isn't reversible but you can prolong his life without being selfish he has just developed it so he's not that bad yet you can find a home for him and a good one and if the day comes he's in to much pain you know what is needed don't let these people get you flustered they have nothing better then to hid behind there computers and say what your doing is wrong!

As for getting him sold let people know his condition. (I know you are already) set am age limit for people to buy him set up a contract with them to. As for people doing no call no shows it happens try to avoid just texting make them call and talk to you over the phone makes it more real good luck and keep up posted also maybe a picture to show he's not so worse down as these people think!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

dbarabians said:


> I dont care what this thread is about.
> Passing on a lame horse to anyone is unethical IMO.


Its not unethical if the buyer knows the condition and is willing to except it there is some one for every horse and I strongly agree with that!


Sharpie said:


> If my perfectly sweet and trained 9 year old QH became unridable tomorrow, I would most likely put him down, because almost no one has room or desire for a pasture pet for the next 20 years. Even those that SAY they do will likely be sending their critters to auction (or worse) in 5, 10 or 15 years from now due to 'life changes.' Once you sell/give away an animal, you have no way to prevent horrible things from happening to them, and the chances of an animal getting lucky enough to stay at a wonderful "forever home" are vanishingly small in reality. Those slots are usually taken up by those people's OWN retired and injured horses that they held on to even after they became useful only as lawn-mowers.


Its crazy as soon as the animal can't perform for you its garbage basically you all make me sick! To want to put down your own horse if it became unrideable you shouldn't own horses because you care more about what they can do for you and not there personal well being!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> Its not unethical if the buyer knows the condition and is willing to except it there is some one for every horse and I strongly agree with that!
> 
> Its crazy as soon as the animal can't perform for you its garbage basically you all make me sick! To want to put down your own horse if it became unrideable you shouldn't own horses because you care more about what they can do for you and not there personal well being!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, we care about an animal's wellbeing, not keeping it alive to make yourself feel better. That is crazy.


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, I'm so heartless and cruel, as are the others who insist the OP take care of her own mess.

I currently have an unrideable 27 y/o gelding with CHF. I got him when he was 19 and he became unrideable at 20, so I retired him. The previous owner either didn't know he had it, or didn't tell me. It was a moot point anyway, as the horse was now mine.

I suppose I could have tried to sell/give him away instead of dealing with his medical issues, but I believe in personal responsibility and not passing that responsibility onto someone else. When his quality of life deteriorates, he'll be put down. Until then, it's MY job to make sure he's kept comfortable, not expect some pie in the sky perfect new owner to magically appear.


----------



## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> Its crazy as soon as the animal can't perform for you its garbage basically you all make me sick! To want to put down your own horse if it became unrideable you shouldn't own horses because you care more about what they can do for you and not there personal well being!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The harsh reality is that if her horse were ever to be in that situation and she did try to rehome it, chances are that horse could end up in a place like the situation in Washington, or just in some pasture starving and completely lame. I've seen it. Multiple times. 

OP I wish you lots of luck with your horse. I know how hard it is finding a reliable home for horses like this 

(Sidenote: navicular is not always a constant expensive and life ending medical issue  just saying lol)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

When a horse has navicular usually one leg is worse than the other. 

My question is how many people can telling a horse is lame on _both_ front legs? 
It might well be nodding on the worse leg but are you certain that the horse is not lame on the other one too?

Personally I would rather a horse was euthanised than sending the problems elsewhere. I would rather they went on whilst relatively comfortable than when they are in total pain.


----------



## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

MODERATOR'S NOTE:

Some posts in this thread have been removed due to personal, condescending tone toward another users.

Please stay respectful toward another users even while disagreeing and read the Horseforum.com rules before posting. A warning, ban or another sanctions will may be given to the users who cannot follow the rules.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Any time you sell any thing you have to deal with people not showing up , lowballing prices, etc. 
Its just a fact of life.
If you can leave this horse with your parents and have a friend come check on the horse, or use the horse , why dont you choose that option ? you could be home on holidays or weekends to check on him .


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Has this horse been diagnosed by a lameness expert with good quality radiographs?

Some horses that are said to have navicular lameness are really just victims of bad farrier work. You can pull their shoes, keep them well trimmed, put them out in the pasture for a year, and they will get better. 

If he has extreme radiographic changes from navicular, then he may be a lost cause. 

If this is a pasture sound horse, he may just need a new farrier and a trainer. 

People on the internet are often ready to give up before they even see the horse.


----------



## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

People on the internet CAN'T see the horse.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Right no one can see the horse except the OP and its her decision in the long run what she does with him weather its keep him sell him or euthinize him

Best of luck to you and if you rehome him just make sure they know what there getting! Keep us posted
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Viranh (Apr 7, 2013)

If she wants to put in the work to rehab the navicular as much as possible and retrain his under saddle issues, we'd be having a different discussion. That's not what OP asked about though. She is trying to sell a horse with diagnosed navicular that currently has behavioral issues because she is moving and can't financially keep him. We're saying she can't expect someone else to put that work in to the horse, particularly when there's a really good chance he will NEVER go sound.


----------



## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

actually--i re-read this post from the start--OP started this post to rant about the "ugh" involved with selling a horse--no-shows, inappropriate tire kickers (underage), unreturned calls, etc. had she done just that and kept the description of the horse out of it we would also be having a different discussion! 

yes--the run of the mill auction is generally not a place to find a good responsible horseperson looking to buy a personal horse....now--a well run HORSE and tack sale can be a great oppurtunity to sell a HEALTHY horse without issues--you have a large number of interested folks in one place all at the same time!!! the key to this is well run and with a strong reputation of being a clean run sale.

you will still have no control over the horses future once the word SOLD rings out but it is sometimes better than trying to deal with folks when you are on a tight schedule yourself if you just cannot handle potential "lookers", or live way out in the boonies and cannot get that horse sold. i still prefer private party buys and sales though!

so all issues aside--i agree OP--waiting on folks and dealing with no-shows and sometimes just the horse-drama folks out for a sunday's drive trying out as many horses that they cannot afford as possible--LOL!!! have dealt with that....folks looked at 4 different horses in the area and then let one guy know they still lived in an apartment and were "JUST LOOKING"! (WILL MY EYES ROLL UP THAT FAR-lol) good luck.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

Yes, that's really what it was all about. The crazies that come look at your horse. It makes me really glad that I don't have to sell my main horse...


----------



## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

I completely understand about the tire kicker woes. I love the ones that email you once, act interested, and then you never hear from them again. Sometimes I think maybe they've just died, and I give them the benefit of the doubt. 

Have you had anyone ask if $500 is your bottom dollar yet? We had one advertised for that price, and got that question online. Or those people that just say, "Would you take $250?" Or they ask if they can make payments on a $500 horse... If you need to make PAYMENTS on a horse that cheap, then you won't have the money for any potential vet bills, hay, etc.!

And has your horse actually had any x-rays taken? We had a vet come out and diagnose navicular in a horse because she had the symptoms, but the owner could either afford the diagnostic tests, or treatments, so she decided to treat without ever knowing if it were true. Still in the early stages of that one, so no clue how it will turn out. I agree with Celeste, some horses can recover if they get a better farrier and get frequent trims over the course of a year or more. Check out Pete Ramey's website:
Pete Ramey Hoof Rehab home. Horse hoof maintenance and care.
He's a barefoot trimmer only, and has a LOT of good information about resolving navicular. Here's an article written by him:
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/support-files/navicular.pdf

Personally, I think it's better to try and resolve the navicular before doing anything else, especially euthanizing. Some say it's "humane" to kill an animal that's in pain, but would you kill someone that's lost their lower limbs? No, you find another option, such as prosthetic legs, to help them.


----------



## LadyChevalier (Apr 19, 2013)

I had an EXTREMELY frustrating situation with tire kickers for a saddle I was selling on craigslist. It all started out with a phone call... A young woman called about the saddle and when I gave her the specs on it (even tho all the specs were listed on the ad online) she said it wouldnt fit her horse and I said ok, good luck saddle shopping and hung up.

A week later I get a call from a totally different number. The lady seemed very interested. She did ask if i would come down on my price (300) and i said, possibly but not much. She was still very interested and wanted to come out early the next morning. I told her that i work late (2-3 am) but told her I could do an 8:30 for her. She said that was perfect, I gave her directions and she said she would text me when she was so far away to give me a heads up. 

Next morning rolls around, I'm tired, but i get up early. Pull the saddle out, "dust" it off and then i wait... and wait... and wait. Finally about 9:30 rolls around and I call to find out whats up but she doesnt answer. Instead another number that vaguely looked familiar calls me back and its the her and shes like "oh welll something came up, im over in such and such (like 3 hours away)" and she gave a half assed apology. I asked her if she was still interested and shes like "oh yes!" and so we set up another time, she wanted to come out again the next day early again... but i was going to be busy so two days later we planned for her to come out. 

That day rolls around, I get up early, pull the saddle out, "dust" it off and wait... and wait... So i call the number she last called me at and the answering machine was the same one from the very first girl who said the saddles were too small in the first place! WTH! I call both numbers and no answer. I left a nice courteous message on both (not being sarcastic, i was actually nice and didnt tell them off like i seriously wanted to) but still no one bothered to contact me again. I was LIVID to put nicely after that... I love my sleep too much to want to waste it on inconsiderate people. 

A simple call would have sufficed in saying that something came up, or that they're no longer interested, or people get busy and totally forget about appts made (tho seriously, next day appts? are they really that hard to forget?). I get that people change their minds too BUT there is such a thing as common courtesy... and its sadly something many people lack. Thats life though and when selling something online you dont know who or what might come your way. 

Got another text today asking if the saddle was still available (different number tho), I said yes and still no reply. 

So i understand you completely on the frustrations of trying to sell.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm getting a view of things from the other way around. I've sent enquiry messages to dozens of advertisers now on all the different horse selling websites and only 3 have bothered to reply. It would be nice if people could at least say that they've sold the horse.........


----------



## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm going thru the same deal with my tires if that counts??? :lol: 

Just have to bite your tongue and push through. Can't fix stoopid haha 
Crossing my fingers you find somebody
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Corazon Lock said:


> That has crossed through my mind before, I do admit. I am a little uncertain what to do with him because he wasn't always like this. He doesn't rear big, and he usually does it when he decides he doesn't want to go forward and wants to turn around. If you correct him with the other rein, he'll go up. If you correct him with your leg very firmly, he is usually okay.
> 
> I guess I have figured that since he is so great on the ground, he'd be good as a pasture pet, in which then he would be free. Another person suggested I have someone run him through an auction. I guess I honestly don't want to pay for euthanasia and the disposal of the body, and I think someone much more experienced could find some use of him. A lot of it is linked to buddy sourness. When I got him, he was pretty good. Bucked a bit at the canter, but nothing that would unseat you. Jumped everything, never took off.
> 
> ...


Sooo…now that this horse has basically finished his useful working life, time to rehome, Huh? You have trouble spending the $$ to be a responsible owner and even TRY a treatment to see if it helps his behavior, no less the $$ to euth and dispose of him. Honestly-this sticks in my craw, so to speak. You can seem to afford 2 other horses, just have no use for this particular one….so…time to move him down the road. I am having a REALLY hard time feeling any sympathy-for you.

I have an older arthritic horse. He has a stifle issue, and his will also progress. I would not THINK of rehoming, but I was fortunate to be able to free lease him as a therapy horse as long as he is able. When he is no longer able to do that any longer, he will come back to me. Depending upon how he is, I will have to decide whether he is in pain sufficient enough to be put down-OR do I get rid of-as you put it-my "main" horse (the one I currently use, although this guy was my "main horse for years!) You see-I can only afford ONE horse. If I have to choose, it will be the one who helped raise my daughter, teach her to ride and has been a family member for years. As much as I love my current riding horse-he is the marketable one so he will be the one to go. Sometimes you have to act like an adult. It is not all about us, and in my case-I may have to be without a horse to ride for a period of time. A small price to pay to see my responsibility to its end. JMHO


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

I've had people offer to wire money to me without even seeing the horse...eye roll...

I have not been asked about bottom dollar yet. But if it was someone who seemed extremely genuine and caring, I wouldn't have a bottom dollar. But, I can imagine people will try to haggle you to give them the lowest price. 

Jaydee, I went through that too when I was looking at horses quite a while back. No emails returned, phone calls not returned, rude sellers, and people who said the horse was sold but it was still marked 'for sale' on the site.


----------



## Corazon Lock (Dec 26, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Sooo…now that this horse has basically finished his useful working life, time to rehome, Huh? You have trouble spending the $$ to be a responsible owner and even TRY a treatment to see if it helps his behavior, no less the $$ to euth and dispose of him. Honestly-this sticks in my craw, so to speak. You can seem to afford 2 other horses, just have no use for this particular one….so…time to move him down the road. I am having a REALLY hard time feeling any sympathy-for you.
> 
> I have an older arthritic horse. He has a stifle issue, and his will also progress. I would not THINK of rehoming, but I was fortunate to be able to free lease him as a therapy horse as long as he is able. When he is no longer able to do that any longer, he will come back to me. Depending upon how he is, I will have to decide whether he is in pain sufficient enough to be put down-OR do I get rid of-as you put it-my "main" horse (the one I currently use, although this guy was my "main horse for years!) You see-I can only afford ONE horse. If I have to choose, it will be the one who helped raise my daughter, teach her to ride and has been a family member for years. As much as I love my current riding horse-he is the marketable one so he will be the one to go. Sometimes you have to act like an adult. It is not all about us, and in my case-I may have to be without a horse to ride for a period of time. A small price to pay to see my responsibility to its end. JMHO


 This isn't just about the behavior problem or the navicular. It's a lot of things. I got this horse as a replacement show horse since mine had broken part of his hock and was no longer rideable. I found out very quickly that we had compatibility issues. Where the behavior ends and the navicular starts I really don't know, but I know when I had him vetted before I bought him, while he did have minor DJD (not in the navicular bone), he showed no signs of navicular. 

Then another thing happened. My ex-hunter became sound, and I began working him. Last winter, the vets told me that he healed miraculously well and that I could continue his career as a jumping horse. He and I were very compatible.

This leaves Casper without a use navicular or no navicular, really. He's not a good trail horse at all, and I can't blame him for that - he's been in an arena his entire life. And trails aren't his thing. And I wouldn't have a use for two jumping horses, and I would definitely go back to Rusty because he is extremely honest and loves his job.

I do think it's a little extreme to say that you would sell your main riding horse to keep your arthritic one, though I do see because it is of past history. But otherwise, I would not do it. Why have a horse if it has no use to you? You keep a horse because it's your competitive partner, your friend, therapy, whatever. Every human gets some satisfaction out of their horse. If they don't, they shouldn't have it. I've had this horse for less than a year, and I don't want to put any more money into something that I do not love or have a bond with, especially since this horse has hurt me before. I'm not in a position to see if treatments work on this horse. I am at a point where I have realized that I am not enough of an experienced rider to handle this horse's shenanigans, caused by navicular or not. He's injured me more than once, dumped me many times, and I have come to just hate working with him whether he's being good or not, and I'm sure he feels that.

I don't think euthanasia is the answer at this point because he does have some usefulness - his impeccable ground manners. There are so many people around here who just have horses that mow their pastures or are just there as pretty animals to look at. Heck, a lesson program or a family could use him to teach ground work to people. I see this in him, and I think he would be happy doing that. I've been completely upfront and honest with people about his condition, and if they want to give him a go, I don't see what is wrong with that if they want to enjoy him as a pasture pet, ground horse, whatever. And yes, I think it is a waste to euthanize an animal that does not need to be euthanized.

*I'm done with talking about whether or not I am "doing the right thing." My horse, my PERSONAL decision. This thread was about weird and rude potential horse buyers, NOT about whether it was ethical to rehome/sell my horse. I would like to continue discussing that topic only. *


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Yes, he might have great ground... But why wouldn't someone want a horse with great ground manners AND is rideable?! There a plenty out there. That just doesn't make sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LadyChevalier (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm sorry OP, people just like beating a dead horse I guess. It is your horse and you can do what you wish with him. If you can find a gem of a home for him then good, I'm happy for you. Or if you cant find a home for the horse, well you will cross that bridge when it comes to it and decide whats best for him- be that an auction or euth. Either way it is non of our business to be commenting on her decision since she was not on here asking for advice. Sorry OP for those getting off topic. Why dont you just have a moderator close the thread and start a new one- "Selling/buying Frustration Stories"


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Yeah if I were you I would ask to close this thread.. things have gotten way off topic!!

Some horse selling stories...
One time I was trying to sell my gelding and you wouldn't believe the stuff I got offered from an air compressor to a tractor!!!! Crazy people!!

When I was selling my old mare I had little kids left and right call and texting me knowing there parents had NO IDEA...

When I sell horses I won't text (can't tell how old they are) and ask for a parent if a kid calls they usually just hang up lol!! 

Good luck selling him!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry the thread took a wrong turn. :?

I see franknbeans' point, as I treat my horse's like family as well. But when my Mom got diagnosed with breast cancer for the 2nd time, and the bills started piling up, suddenly selling the "bucker" that nobody would want, or ridding ourselves of the sweet gelding with nerve damage due to EPM, didn't seem like a bad idea. My mother intends to live through this, and wants to continue to ride. Why would we sell the horses we CAN ride and keep the pasture pets? Why not do just EXACTLY as Corazon is doing, and be upfront and honest about their issues, and search for the perfect home for them?

Yes, life is about sacrifices. But there is SOMEONE out there that could fix Mr. Bucker's problems, or a small child that would dote on Mr. past-EPM. Why not give someone else the opportunity to solve these issues, or dote on a pasture pet? Things could work out well for both the old owner, new owner, and horse.


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Like it or not you cannot control what others post on an open forum.
What some of us have a problem with is not the fact you have a horse you no longer need or like. It is the fact that he has an incurable degenerative condition you are willing to pass the responsibility and cost on to someone else.

I have several retired broodmares from the mid 20's to 33 year old. I will not sell them or pass the cost of their care to someone else. Once they cannot maintain their weight or are in pain I will have them put to sleep. I bred them I raised them and I used them for broodmares and to ride. I am responsible to see they live and die with dignity . I take that responsibility very seriously. Shalom


----------



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Corazon Lock said:


> This isn't just about the behavior problem or the navicular. It's a lot of things. I got this horse as a replacement show horse since mine had broken part of his hock and was no longer rideable. I found out very quickly that we had compatibility issues. Where the behavior ends and the navicular starts I really don't know, but I know when I had him vetted before I bought him, while he did have minor DJD (not in the navicular bone), he showed no signs of navicular.
> 
> Then another thing happened. My ex-hunter became sound, and I began working him. Last winter, the vets told me that he healed miraculously well and that I could continue his career as a jumping horse. He and I were very compatible.
> 
> ...


I guess some of us put our personal wants aside sometimes for the good of our animals.


----------



## Viranh (Apr 7, 2013)

In OP's defense, I am opposed to the idea that we're all obligated to support every horse that crosses our path to the very end. That is a ridiculous ideal that most of us as owners can never live up to. Horses are NOT children, and they're not even like dogs. They are livestock. Very, very expensive livestock. I have re-homed horses that were not sound enough for my discipline of choice, but had other uses, and horses I didn't click with. It would be a disservice to the horse to keep them in those situations IMO. They are also too expensive to be keeping horses who have not earned their retirement from you and who are not a fit for your needs. 

The problem with OP re-homing her horse is more that it is extremely unlikely that the horse will find a true good home with the issues that he has, not the general idea that she wants to sell one of her horses, even that she wants to sell a lame horse. It's more that he's both lame and dangerous, and honestly, that's the kind of horse that slaughter exists for. It would be a kindness to spare him that ride to Mexico that he will almost inevitably take if you pass his problems on. I do wish you the best of luck. Maybe there is a perfect person out there for him.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

You guys realize that the OP has said numerous times she wasn't seeking advise on what should be done with casper but in stead was RANTING about the buyers she gets for him and no call no shows

Stop bugging her about what is right its HER HORSE.. if she want to sell him she can if she wants to put him down its her choice and you are just wasting your time.. PERIOD!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

At the risk of this becoming a drama zone...again....were all just sharing stories and opinions. If the OP has a serious problem with anybody's post she CAN go to the moderators or report it herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> You guys realize that the OP has said numerous times she wasn't seeking advise on what should be done with casper but in stead was RANTING about the buyers she gets for him and no call no shows
> 
> Stop bugging her about what is right its HER HORSE.. if she want to sell him she can if she wants to put him down its her choice and you are just wasting your time.. PERIOD!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The OP does not own this thread. It belongs to all the members and most of us are having a adult conversation. No one is bugging her and it seems you are the one who is upset. May I suggest you refrain from this thread it bothers you so much.

I too do not believe in keeping a horse for its entire life is feasible for most people . Horses are too expensive and live for a long time.
I hope the OP finds a place for him as a pasture pet . I hope he remains pain free. I hope he lives a long happy life that most horses would envy. Shalom


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

But you are all off topic not one of you have talked about the real topic this thread has already been locked due to "adults" talking obviously its going no where positive I don't have a problem with it but the OP did start this! And no one has giving her the response she wanted or needed because no one bothers to read!!! It kills me!


----------



## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

It's your choice to sell/rehome your horse, most definitely. I don't personally agree with getting rid of a horse with a chronic condition that makes them only lightly or unrideable. If you find a home willing to take him as a companion there is a very good chance that he will be the first to be sold down the road if times got tough. I'm sure you've considered that aspect, but if you haven't it is something to think about. 

A side thought, since Kimberley is willing to take this horse, keep him forever, and can afford the treatments, maybe you two should discuss ways to ship him to her. I'm sure you could find plenty of soft-hearted people either on the forum or FB or by talking to rescues to fund the trip. Heck he could probably trailer hop all the way.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks for your opinion ..

And I don't care what the out come is of the threads its crazy you guys lose track of what this really is about! But say what you will I don't frankly care about your input..
And I would take in Casper if we were close all my horses I have taken in not like you know me or my money situation or if its any of your business :-D
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Also your response to the OP has nothing to do with her "question/rant"... just saying people read..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

If you have such a problem with it then don't read it kimberly. The OP can speak for herself if is has a problem with it. And the mods can do what they need. Its not your job.and getting angry at us and insulting us isn't helping
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

But this IS the topic. Buyer woes when trying to rehome a dangerous and lame horse. When your trying to off load a (sorry for sounding mean, I mean this in the nicest way) useless horse. There are better options for him them then the tire kickers who can only afford a horse at rock bottom price. Who buys a horse for under $500? People who know squat about horses... And where does that leave your horse? Just think about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

Im not angry I'm amused really and never insulted anyone.. I never said I had a problem with it just telling y'all again since OP already has.. MULTIPLE times.. smh..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

SlideStop said:


> But this IS the topic. Buyer woes when trying to rehome a dangerous and lame horse. When your trying to off load a (sorry for sounding mean, I mean this in the nicest way) useless horse. There are better options for him them then the tire kickers who can only afford a horse at rock bottom price. Who buys a horse for under $500? People who know squat about horses... And where does that leave your horse? Just think about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


see its really just a rant as OP has said multiple times.. she was venting about no call no shows when selling a horse and little girls calling behind there parents back.. she only mentioned his condition to explain she has alot on her plate as is trying to sell him BOTTOM LINE.. its the OPs choice to sell and therebis nothing y'all can do about it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> Thanks for your opinion but you know how the saying about opinions goes;-)


\\
hmm... I know a saying about assumptions... but not opinions. Maybe I'm too old to know the opinion saying?

At any rate, this thread hit close to home for me. I ended up with a horse that was too much for me, had potential lameness issues, is not for beginner or even intermediate riders, and likely will never be a calm, light riding trail horse. 

I put him up for sale/adoption, but I was realistic about it. Unless THE perfect person came along, there wasn't a very good chance I'd sell him. I had plenty of people inquire, discuss him with me, and then fail to follow up. A few said they wanted to come look at him, but didn't. 

I'm guessing they realized after talking to me that he wasn't the right horse for them. And you know what? Good for them. I'd rather have them admit it to themselves and fail to follow up with me rather than buy him and dump him. 

My horse is now enjoying an early retirement at my parents' place. I have the luxury of that option. However, if I did not, he likely would have been put down. Call it cruel if you want... but some would also call it responsible.


----------



## ligoleth (Sep 9, 2011)

You want to know a crueler fate than putting down?
Selling to an owner that realizes what a money pit the horse is and puts them down their self. 
Or sells them to the meat market. 

Either keep the horse and waste your money, or risk fate's temptation, or put the horse down yourself. 1/3 options leaves you with russian roulette.


----------



## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

kimberlyrae1993 said:


> But you are all off topic not one of you have talked about the real topic this thread has already been locked due to "adults" talking obviously its going no where positive I don't have a problem with it but the OP did start this! And no one has giving her the response she wanted or needed because no one bothers to read!!! It kills me!


The OP has withdrawn so why are you so angry?
Trying to pass a horse to someone else with behavior and health issues in order to avoid making a difficult decision or paying for its care is not responsible horse ownership IMO. 
The OP is the one who brought this into the discussion so she should not be surprised others feel differently.
She posted the information about his soundness and behavior issues.
She went off topic by not discussing buyers making ridiculous request or not showing up.
Kimberleyrae for someone who is 21 may I suggest you improve your social skills and then when others change the subject and discuss other things you will not be so disturbed.


----------



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Kimberly, you write like a 15 year old. I am a year younger than you and I grew out of the "but putting animals down is MEAN" when I was ten. I guess you kind of have to when you're raised understanding that euthanasia is a mercy we can give our animals that we cannot, unfortunately, give to ourselves or our human loved ones. I was ten the first time I made the decision to have a beloved pet put to sleep.

This horse has navicular, which is only going to get worse. He has behavioural issues making him dangerous. He is not marketable. There are many MANY sound, sane horses going cheap and even free. Why would someone want an unsound, dangerous horse when a sound, sane one is both cheaper AND safer?

Sometimes, if we are unable to ensure our horses a good life, the best we can do for them is a kind and dignified death. I had a seven year old Standardbred I would not have given to someone who intended to use him for riding. He became unsuitable to be used as a companion horse [went from being bottom of the pecking order to a violent bully who on several occasions injured the other horses in with him]. His ONLY use was as a pasture pet, pastured alone or with another retired horse. I did try to find him a home but was messed around. A lady actually bought him for a dollar and then for SIX WEEKS made excuse after excuse regarding why he hadn't been booked onto the transport truck yet. In the end when we threatened to start charging her feed and board she came up with yet another excuse and "sold" him back to us. I tried for another couple of weeks to find him a home, then the money ran out. He ended up being euthed. That was three years ago now and I still completely despise that woman because ultimately the six weeks we wasted being screwed over could have been spent finding him a home.

Anyway, the point is, that horse was not marketable. He was, truly, far better off being laid to rest, even though he was only 7 years old and healthy apart from an unfortunate issue where he would randomly fall down. Not a safe riding horse, through no fault of his own. The vet thought it could have been a heart problem, or possibly, given his complete change of personality, a brain tumor.


----------



## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I think reading the thread below could enlighten the conversation for some of us. 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/ethics-euthanasia-predetermining-enough-416442/


----------



## Valentina (Jul 27, 2009)

I adopted a pasture buddy - but before I did I looked at several - those with expensive issues were automatically discarded - I would rather spend that $200-$300 every 5 weeks a navicular horse would need for shoes on my show mare or my older mare, not someone else's problem.

So if someone has money to spare they can pickup a free horse with these issues BUT MOST people will not!

If current owner is not spending the money to make the horse more comfortable (i.e. spelling shoes) why would a total stranger? If she can find someone to do so - more power to her. I think most people on this forum are trying to tell her that it's a very SMALL chance of happening.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Sadly, it is often showing your* LOVE* for a horse to have him humanely put down. Have a vet use a strong sedative and then put him down with those he loved there to ease him into a graceful exit. He is only looking at more and more pain with every year. Even giving him away does not insure he has a good life, He very likely WILL NOT. He will probably end up at an auction by someone who cannot face doing the right thing and will foist it off on others to do it....and likely not very nicely.

Doing this for him shows love. Don't just pass him on for an even worse probability.


----------



## kimberlyrae1993 (Mar 20, 2013)

I NEVER SAID "PUTTING ANIMALS DOWN WAS MEAN"?!?!? I would be the first person to say to put an animal down as soon as it was in any pain ...


----------



## PalominoHeaven (May 20, 2014)

Corazon Lock said:


> No, that's just what another horse person I know suggested. I don't really want to put him to sleep either though if I don't have to because while he does have the navicular, he is sound at pasture and is happy. So it seems like I should keep him. But I'm a college student and really cannot afford a horse that is, yes, a money pit right now, especially since he comes with no benefits (unless you call getting your fingers laid up for 6-8 weeks a benefit lol).
> 
> I'm at home now but am thinking about moving out next fall and going to a different school in another state. I would take my one horse with me, maybe my second depending on boarding costs, or I know a few people that would love to free lease or lease or buy my second horse. But I couldn't take this one with me, nor do I know anyone that would have a use for him, unlike my golden oldie. And I can't leave him at home because my parents know nothing about horses and don't like him as it is.
> 
> For me, it feels awful that, in order to move away, I must kill my happy, pretty healthy horse. I understand where you all are coming from completely and do agree with you, it's just...can I do that? O.O


Nothing Comes Free ** But If The Money Is An Issue, Try To Find An Experienced Trainer Who's Willing To Take Him On Consignment, If The Trainer Is Patient & Good Enough To Put In The Time & Energy To Rehabilitate Him & Sell Him To The Proper New Owner The Horse, Trainer, You Are All Happy In The Long Run. Best Of Luck ****
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Allison Finch said:


> Sadly, it is often showing your* LOVE* for a horse to have him humanely put down. Have a vet use a strong sedative and then put him down with those he loved there to ease him into a graceful exit. He is only looking at more and more pain with every year. Even giving him away does not insure he has a good life, He very likely WILL NOT. He will probably end up at an auction by someone who cannot face doing the right thing and will foist it off on others to do it....and likely not very nicely.
> 
> Doing this for him shows love. Don't just pass him on for an even worse probability.


This was extremely well said. I am a nurse, and often have to counsel patients and/or families regarding end of life decisions. One of my standard "speeches" includes the idea that as humans we love, that which we love we fear to let go and that can lead us to be selfish.


----------

