# Can I tow with extended van (new to horses)



## tstol (Jan 22, 2016)

Hey ya'll,

I am brand new to horses. My wife is getting back into it after decades away, and she never did any towing. She is buying a horse, and at first I was supporting her, but I'm getting into it now, too.

I've been doing some reading on tow vehicles, and I understand I'm doing this in the wrong order, but that's because I already own the vehicle in question.

I have a 1999 Dodge Ram 3500 Extended Van with a 5.9L V-8. It does not have a towing package. I am concerned about it being extended and having a trailer attached causing instability in the front end. There are stories of a wave of extended van (also known as church van) accidents b/c people were towing with them...but there are no specifics on what they were towing.

Although I respect what everyone has to say, it would be much appreciated if the replies could be specific. What I've read elsewhere were often strong opinions with no experience. If you know it can or cannot be done, please tell me why.

I'm planning on towing a two horse trailer (with two horses...may seem obvious, but just being clear). Maybe one with room for tack, but may not be necessary with having a van.

Thanks to all in advance!

Tad


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## evilamc (Sep 22, 2011)

It would be interesting to see what the costs would be to add the towing package and what it claims its rated for with that package. Towing package is a lot more then a hitch, you may need bigger radiator, could need better suspension/support stuff....also would need a trailer break kit. I don't know much about the vans but the wheelbase of it seems kinda weird for towing imo...the back wheel just looks so far up, makes me wonder if the back end could support the weight of a trailer tongue? I'm no mechanic though so take what I say lightly...I'm sure others will chime in.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Complicated question. Lets look at the facts. 

Fullsized vans are typically very good tow vehicles because of their heft and wheelbase. Both are generally beneficial, particularly wheelbase - towing with a short wheelbase vehicle is never ideal which is the reason why experienced people will always suggest a longbed pickup vs a shortbed pickup for towing with trucks, for example, even for tag trailers. Longer=stable.

BUT, your situation is complicated by the extended cab van, not helped by it. The issue is this - In a perfect world when you put an extended body on a vehicle, you also extend the wheelbase - a good example is a longbox pickup truck vs a shortbox pickup truck, or a straight cab pickup truck vs a crew cab pickup truck, in both examples, with the longer body comes a longer wheelbase. Dodge, on the other hand, just (literally) stuck on the extension with no regard to wheelbase, which is why the E350 extended have the long, kind of weird, overhanging tail.

Now, that overhang between the axle and the pivot point on the hitch IS a legitimate issue from a simple geometry standpoing. Typically you want the pivot point of the hitch as close to the rear axle of a tow vehicle as possible, another reason why 5th wheel's or gooseneck trailers (where the pivot point is directly over the axle) are so inherently stable when compared to *any* tag trailer.

So, you have that going against you, to start. Is that a showstopper? For a small 2 horse trailer, particuarly if you're willing to invest in some basic anti-sway equipment and a good weight distributing hitch...not at all, in my educated opinion. If you were talking a 30' travel trailer, yes, it would be a show stopper.

What might be a concern, is the lack of a towing package. The "package" is usually this:


Trailer hitch, obviously.
Brake controller, sometimes...although on that vintage of vehicle, typically it only (sometimes) the wiring for such, but not the actual controller.
A auxilliary or secondary transmission cooler. Might already be so equipped being a 3500 series to begin with, and a heavy passenger hauler secondary.
Sometimes "defaults" to a bigger engine.
And lastly, and the main concern - lower (more torque vs speed) gearing.
Sometimes, but not always, a bigger rad....but typically being a 3500 series to begin with, it probably already has that.

Now, the hitch, you can add that yourself if it's not already equipped. Get the biggest one you can, class IV ideally.

The brake controller, again, easy. Get a quality proportional controller like the Tekonsha Voyager/Primus/P3 line depending on your budget. Do NOT buy a cheap timer based controller. Ask for clarification if you're not sure the difference, I'll point you to a thread somewhere else that explains it.

Aux transmission cooler is wise idea, but can be added aftermarket by any competent mechanic..but as mentioned above, it's apt to already be so equipped due to the 1-ton passenger van roots. Again, go as big as you can realistically fit - heat is the #1 killer of transmissions.

Engine, well, yes, a concern - without adequate power you can't safely tow, obviously, but the 5.9 generally shows tow ratings in the 7400 to 7900 rating, although the ratings I found were not specific to straight vs extended body. That's adequate for a reasonable 2 horse trailer, loaded, with some margin to spare.

Gearing...well, you need to verify it via your RPO codes in the glovebox. But, being a 350 series (1 ton) vehicle, and a large passenger-hauler secondary, chances are it has the preferrential (lower) gearing, either 3.90 or 4.10. Looks like the 390's give you the 7400# rating, and the 410's give you the 7900 tow rating. 

So, in the end? I think you're good for a 2 horse, but don't go crazy with something long and heavy with LQ's or a huge forward tack room, for example - try to keep it light, try to keep it short, and be prepared to invest in some gear to make it safe. 

I have to head to work but I can clarify more later. If you can hunt up some of the info I mentioned that'd be helpful to start, specifically the gearing.


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## tstol (Jan 22, 2016)

This is just a quick reply as I'm heading down to the stables in a bit, then a quick nap before a 12 hour mid-shift. Thanks so much for such a thorough reply. I'll look up the info you mentioned today, such as the gearing and transmission cooler, and get back to you. I'll have to price all this out and determine whether it's worth it to put that kind of money into a 16 year old vehicle. Might be worth it to sell it and buy one properly equipped. Problem is that now I'm getting into horses myself, as mentioned, and I have my eye on a little filly. Actually, she picked me, and although I pretend not to care, that's why I keep stopping by the stables. I tell my wife I'm supporting her.  (I'm doing both, of course.) There's only so much money on the money tree in my yard, so I am doing my best to manage. I'll take you up on the offer of talking about this further, and again, I appreciate your time. Tad


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Per Trailer Life's 1999 Tow Ratings, the towing capacity for your van is:



> Ram van 3500 5.9 V-8 7,400a,b
> Ram van 3500 5.9 V-8 7,900b,e
> 
> bRequires four-speed automatic overdrive transmission.
> eRequires 4.09/4.10:1 axle ratio


The towing capacity aside, you also need to crunch the numbers to see if your van really is sufficient tow what you want to tow and if you will feel safe towing with. Remember, too that towing a live load as opposed to a static load alters the towing capacity (depending on the source some say to subtract 10-15% from the towing capacity when towing a live load). Here are some articles :

Towing Horses - Learn the Proper Way
Florida Horse.Com - Tow Vehicle Considerations
Florida Horse.Com - Towing Your Horse Trailer
Choose the Vehicle to Haul Your Horse Trailer
Horse Trailer Safety Information
Towing Safety

Good luck and have fun with your ponies!


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## tstol (Jan 22, 2016)

Thanks! I'll start going through these links.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

If there's money on the money tree right now there wont be when you're done getting into horses but we love them anyway!

Some good advice above, I would toss in there if you decide to go with the van at 16 years old I would get her mechanically checked out. There is a chance she has some problems developing that you haven't noticed yet that a fully loaded horse trailer will quickly find. That said, if you don't have a reason to keep a person hauler around then I would seriously consider trading it in for a horse hauler. This will make your life so much easier when it comes to hauling horse related stuff such as hay, feed, fencing, tack, etc.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm not always of the mentality that you need to spend all sorts of money on a new vehicle when the one you have might perfectly (or safely) suitable for the needs at hand, nor do I subscribe to the "OMG any horse trailer demands at least a 1-ton dually pickup truck" mantra either.

I tow my large (and old) 4 horse head to head draft trailer with a nearly 20 year old 1-Ton dually. It's reliable, it's safe, and it doesn't owe me anything. Some of the "New and shiny" club might look down on me, but I don't care - they might have $125,000.00 (or more) invested between their truck and trailer and I know what their payments are. Mine are zero, and I have just as much (if not more) fun than them. 

I'm confident that once you get back with the gearing details and find out if it's already equipped with much of what constitutes the tow package anyways (as I suspect it does being a big passenger hauler at it's heart) that this will be a more than safe and suitable hauler for a 2 horse setup.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

^^ Mines a 20yr old 1 ton SRW that I bought new back in '96. Even though I bought it new it wasn't all shiny and decked out. Came with an AM radio, vinyl seats/floor, XL package. Only extras I bought was diesel and 4x4 but then I consider a 4x4 more of a necessity than an extra.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Tad, two concerns I have with your plan to tow with that van. First, does is already have the wiring for a brake controller? If not it will require running wires all the way from the hitch to the engine compartment and back through the firewall, which is an intense do-it-yourself project or an expensive mechanic job.

Second, the problem with all that overhang, besides what Private Pilot has already described, is that having the hitch such a long way from the rear axle means that every bump will be magnified. I would be concerned about giving your horses a pretty rough ride


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

basically your van is a 1999 dodge ram with a 360 v8 and 2wd, its on the extended chassis, just rebodied so to speak


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