# color changes in black foals



## LAURA THOMPSON (May 31, 2009)

I have a two month old solid paint filly who was very light at birth with a dorsal stripe ,black mane and predominately silver tail. As my vet predicted, she is shedding out dark but her tail is getting more silver.Mom is a homozygous black tobiano, who is 7 for 7 for black babies.Her sire is a champagne overo palomino.I'd love to get her registered but am not sure if she's truly black or something more exotic like classic champagne or silver dapple. Any thoughts on when color is definite, I'm used to grays that change every season


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## Shawneen (Apr 22, 2009)

That is interesting. Do you have any pictures?
My boy Shadow is a bay overo - sire was a black and white overo, dam was a dark bay (black) TB. He came out oviously bay, but he has silver points rather than black like a normal bay. Mane, tail and legs are all silver. I've always thought it was cool but never occured to me before to find out exactly what would cause that.
I wonder if they are similar.


--->
It's no silver gene, I just found this:
_If the horse is bay (black only on the points), it will turn the legs some variety of brown or tan, and the mane/tail to cream (usually with black roots). These sometimes look like flaxen chestnut._

I don't trust wiki, but I found this conflicting...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_dapple_gene
Scroll down to first pic on the left. His legs are a little darker, but silver like that. Says nothing about mane and tail.

As for your baby, it says silver dilutes black, so I am very confused still. Hopefully someone will enlighten us.


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## LAURA THOMPSON (May 31, 2009)

Thanks for the comments,I know I've just got to wait it out and see what she does. She's so very pretty that it won't really matter in the long run.I'm just like some crazed grandmother. It's been 18 years since we had a foal and I believe"Gilda " is the best yet... beauty and brains!Your boy is really striking ,any other pics?


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## Shawneen (Apr 22, 2009)

I completely spaced that you side she had a dorsal stripe. Neither parent is a dun so it probably just looks like a dorsal stripe at the moment - otherwise there is some color miscommunication going on.
I visited a color genetics forum earlier because you really got me thinking what could be causing this, at least with my boy. I was told that the sabino gene can cause silver hairs, not just clumps of white or what you would associate with typical paint markings. As for my boy he has completely silver mane and tail, not just parts of it - so hard for me to believe. I am having samples sent in to get him tested because it is completely baffling the people I have been talking to and the curiosity is killing me. It won't matter in the end but it will help with theories. They don't think silver is there because neither of his parents appear to carry it. I am testing for it anyway.

Thank you for bringing this up and sparking my interest - 17 years and I have never thought to inquire WHY he is different LOL
I don't have any better pics of him. I will see if i can get my mom to take some - I need some for myself anyway. I would definately like to see pics of your girl 

I think weefoal is good with color genetics, but might be just pinto genes. Maybe she can help out.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

There is a test for both silver and champange, so if you REALLY want to be sure, you can test (with tail hairs).

Champagnes are born with blueish or greenish eyes. Was she? If not, then she is not champagne. They also have mottled skin. Plus, their bodies will not come in black color. Here is champagne on a black horse: Classic

While silver can "hide" on the sire (since it doesn't show on red based horses), silver is not very common in the QH and Paint breed, in fact I THINK I read there are only two lines it comes from, so the chances are low that she has silver, but of course it's always possible. However, once the coat starts shedding, if it's coming in black, you can pretty much rule out silver. Here is a great sight to learn about silver: Silver Dapple Gene  - SilverEquine.com is an educational site about the "Silver Dapple" gene and how it dilutes black pigmentation on horses.

Blacks do some odd things changing colors as foals. Until they shed their foal coat completely, you just never know what foals may do in terms of shades lol  Usually by a yearling you'll know.


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## LAURA THOMPSON (May 31, 2009)

I was aware of the eye color and hers are definitely dark. Her skin is uniformly dark. My gut tells me that she will be black but I'm really curious about her tail which seems to be getting new silver growth all the time.I'm pretty good at predicting grays but this transformation has been a surprise.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

Neither parent are grey, so she is not going to grey. Her tail will likely go black as she matures, unless there is some white skin somewhere (from pinto) on her tail.


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