# bad breed crosses



## eventnwithwinston (Feb 15, 2009)

Hmmm...I cant think of any at the moment. I guess a Warmblood and Quarter Horse lol. That would be a wierd combo.

I had a pony cross once. Cutest and sweetest little pony. He was crossed with a Rocky Mountain and Welsh/Shetland. He was not gaited though. So I guess gaited and nongaited crosses can work out sometimes.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

eventnwithwinston said:


> Hmmm...I cant think of any at the moment. I guess a Warmblood and Quarter Horse lol. That would be a wierd combo.


Surprising a WB/Quarter is/can be a very nice cross. I have seen quite a few....none were disasters or even bad.

The worst cross I saw was a shetland/draft....horrible looking thing.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

I second Spyder. There is a Dutch Warmblood/QH cross in our barn that is VERY cute and very very fancy! i don't understand why people would cross 2 horses with very different builds/purposes. breeding should always be done to enhance the strengths of 2 horses and get something even better then the sire/dam. Why breed something that just looks awkward with body parts that don't match? of course, i've seen some poorly bred purebreds that aren't put together well either....


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I really think it depends on how selective you are.

For example, here is a warmblood that I wouldn't classify as particularly well- put together, but she is a purebred Swedish Warmblood:









(Terrible shoulder, over at the knee, long front pasterns... to point out a few.)

Now, a cross that I find to be strange, when selectively bred, can turn out fantastic, for example:
Percheron/Arabian cross:









(as a cross reference... a bad one










Friesian/Peruvian cross (what?!)


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Or you can end up with a quarter/WB that looks like this.


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## eventnwithwinston (Feb 15, 2009)

Those are really neat pics of the QH/WB. I just thought that they would be put together a little awkwardly, because of there different body types and performance levels... interesting though. 

Spyder- Why would someone even breed a Shetland and Draft together...poor thing.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

eventnwithwinston said:


> Spyder- Why would someone even breed a Shetland and Draft together...poor thing.


Are are still people out there that say to themselves " I wonder what it would look like if I bred ________________ with ______________, :shock:


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Lippizans crossed with other breeds is usually a shame...


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I grow tired of backyard breeders, and uneducated breeders. 

It isn't what is mixed with what breed - it is how the "person with the power" decides how to improve the animal.

Too many out there say "I have mare, so therefore I have the right" or "I have a stallion, so therefore I have the right"

There are too many uneducated owners - causing the plight of unwanted, unfunctional horses and adding to the over population that already exists.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

By no means am I saying that it's brilliant to just cross 2 horses because you have them and "saw a nice one one time."
The whole point of breeding is to better the breed(s)


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> By no means am I saying that it's brilliant to just cross 2 horses because you have them and "saw a nice one one time."
> The whole point of breeding is to better the breed(s)


 
I found that my stallion ( Warmblood) seems to cross very well with quarterhorses and even drafts....in fact the hairier or draftier they are the better the result.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

Spyder said:


> Are are still people out there that say to themselves " I wonder what it would look like if I bred ________________ with ______________, :shock:


yes and then other people will be looking why, did you do that?


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

MIEventer said:


> I grow tired of backyard breeders, and uneducated breeders.
> 
> It isn't what is mixed with what breed - it is how the "person with the power" decides how to improve the animal.
> 
> ...


Everytime, I heard a comment like this my mind ask one question, *who should have the right to said yes or no to this breeding.* I agree if you are going to breed any livestock you should be educated as well as possible. Other side of it is some people will do stupid things reguardless of anything else, just becuase they can.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Actually under our form of gov. in the U.S. anyone with a stud and a mare does have the right to breed them. Someone else may not like what they produce but a persons wants never trump anothers persons rights.

To better the breed? Lets be honest here how many of us have done anything to make a breed better? Produced nice horses without a doubt but done anything to better a breed? I'd say no.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I don't think crossing gaited with non-gaited would necessarily be bad. Seems to me like the offspring would be either gaited or not... rather than doing one gait with his hind legs and another with his front ^_^. Who knows, I could be wrong.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

county said:


> To better the breed? Lets be honest here how many of us have done anything to make a breed better? Produced nice horses without a doubt but done anything to better a breed? I'd say no.



I would like to hear your reasoning behind this statement please


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

What exactly has anyones horse they bred on here done to better a breed? I breed QH's have had some awful nice ones the past 40 years, some have gone on to win in the show arenas, some have made great trail horses, etc. But not one made the QH a better breed.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

county said:


> What exactly has anyones horse they bred on here done to better a breed? I breed QH's have had some awful nice ones the past 40 years, some have gone on to win in the show arenas, some have made great trail horses, etc. But not one made the QH a better breed.


 
I have to agree. I understand what you are saying. A horse of any breed that makes that breed better in some way is a very rare horse indeed.

One such example would be like Northern Dancer...his blood was influential to the increase of quality of the TB breed and now runs in 85 % of all TBs now.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Exactly, there are very very few horses that make an impact on a breed. Theres loits that produce excellent get but take them out of the picture completly and nothing changes within that breed.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Unless you've bred a Three Bars, or a Doc Bar, or say a Zippo Pine Bar, some horse that radically changed say the QH breed or a horse that made a big change in any breed you haven't bred one that improved the breed. If you can honestly say your breed would be far inferiour without what you bred you really didn't improve it. You may very well have bred some really nice horses within that breed but it takes a GREAT deal to make an improvement on one.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I mean to try to breed the best to the best... to improve on what's there, rather than just say "heck with it, my mare has a uterus, that stud has its testicles, let's put 'em together."


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

That I agree with I always try to cross my mares with which ever studs I have that will produce the best I can get. Not always based on conformation in fact I have performance in mind first and foremost.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Doesn't conformation play a HUGE rold in performance?!


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Very much so but for me its #2 I'll take a horse say for cutting thats full of cow with conformation faults over one with no faults but no cow.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

JDI, I get what your saying :]

It's more about trying to maintain the breed standard... Not by 'bettering the breed' as county interpreted it, but by breeding horses that are a good testament to their breed.

And county, you would take a horse with bad confo and good performance, but would you breed it? What if it passed on it's conformation faults but not its cow sense? Isn't a sounder breeding practise to breed for correct conformation that LEADS to better performance? Cow sense of a QH is only part of their sucess as cow horses. Their build is a huge part, and take away that, you have a horse who has plenty of cow but a body who can't do what the mind is willing to do.


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## county (Nov 29, 2008)

Would I breed it? In a heart beat and have, much easier IMO for say a cutting horse to correct a conformation fault then breed in great cutting desire. In a perfect world you get both but it doesn't always work that way.

I had what IMO was the best conformationed mare I ever had she was picture perfect. Great bloodlines both sire and dam were proven. She was a dog under saddle a huge disappointment and every one of her foals after I started breeding her were the same way. Tryed breeding her to different stallions with the same results. She got sold mares with faults are still here producing.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> And county, you would take a horse with bad confo and good performance, but would you breed it? What if it passed on it's conformation faults but not its cow sense? Isn't a sounder breeding practise to breed for correct conformation that LEADS to better performance?


 
The reason I started this thread so a very interesting topic won't get lost in the shuffle of other discussions. Maybe you could expand on your thoughts there.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-bre...ion-conformation-producing-performance-23092/


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I have what we suspect is a draft X spotted saddle in my back pasture. He's a sweetheart and a great husband horse, but a conformational nightmare. He got a draft front but the gaited back-end. Doesn't look well put together at all and he doesn't gait. Probably one of the least comfortable riding horses we have.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Even breeding the "best" with the "best" can results in some really bad outcomes. Genetics are genetics, it's not because you breed 2 horses whom you think compliment each other that it means you will end up with a "winning" foal. You see that happen all the time, you just don't hear about it because those responsible for the breeding sell those foals under the table or they go straight to auction. 
In Germany certain breeding facilities(which I'll keep unamed)breed some of the top stallions with some really great looking broodmares. Most of those foals go directly to slaughter after birth if they are born with even the slightest conformation fault.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You will always have your mediocre horses. Always. No two ways about it; even breeding the best to the best will not always result in the best foal... genetics are genetics... BUT in breeding the best to the best, you increase your chances of producing a good foal


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

MIEventer said:


> I grow tired of backyard breeders, and uneducated breeders.
> 
> It isn't what is mixed with what breed - it is how the "person with the power" decides how to improve the animal.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Shuffled on over to your thread, Spyder!


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## LoveMyFinny (Dec 5, 2008)

My friend's Belgian/Paso Fino cross. Interesting cross, but I think he is a pretty nice looking horse. And for gaited X non gaited, depending on what breeds you use of each, you could end up with a really nice horse. Not saying you should do that as a regular breeding practice, but some that are already out there are really nice.










He was a yearling here, so still growing and balancing out.


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## english_rider144 (Sep 12, 2008)

It all depends on what breeds they are. I just found this. Its a pony crossbred to a zebra.


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## EmmaChai (Feb 12, 2009)

Is that Z/pony real? That is SO COOL! As I just got a mare the thoughts of breeding her in the future did cross my mind. I have a few ideas on what I would breed her to (again this is Just a Thought and I am not even sure if I WOULD breed her). So, she is a reg. POA and I can go the most obvious route and breed to a POA stallion. I could also go Appaloosa (her sire is an appy) I am thinking western trail/pleasure foal but I'm not into OH's so what do you think a paint or palomino bred to a POA would be?
I could always just go with the Zebra  hahaha (only a joke)


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I think another thing is what is a nice horse to some is a poor-quality horse (conformationally wise) to others.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Oh come on guys, you know that's photoshopped.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

mayfieldk said:


> Oh come on guys, you know that's photoshopped.


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## eventnwithwinston (Feb 15, 2009)

Cat said:


> I think another thing is what is a nice horse to some is a poor-quality horse (conformationally wise) to others.


I agree. Some horses have certain conformation aspects that may not work for one discipline and may work for another. For example: If you have an overly downhill QH, you could use it for western riding, pleasure, etc.- but you couldnt really use it as a hunter or eventer. 

And no the zorse wasnt photoshopped. Those are real...


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I stand corrected... also, that is the oddest looking animal I've ever seen. lol!


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

the two breeds i rather not see crossed are an appy with a paint i really think its disgraceful to breed that so far out wack though i have seen some intresting horses of these crosses they are just odd on breed has small spots and the other has large conf wise it came out ok cause appy,qh,paints are really close on confo standards.
My issue came when a lady bred her paint to my horses sire he was a proven sire and had an outstanding race record great offspring caring on his standards and then this lady came along bred her crooked legged paint horse to him to see if she would throw the the bad confo or take after her daddy well that was his last foal after mine.. i think it was wrong 1 to breed for that reason and two the two breeds just werent really ment to cross though that is just my opnion


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## zanyoutthere (Jan 31, 2009)

A Cob and a Polo pony!!


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