# Saddles: Does Weight Matter?



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

IME, an added 10-20 pounds on the saddle doesn't really make much difference so long as it fits well. Mine is that heavy and I've ridden horses in it for days at a time, 8+ hours a day, and they never struggled unless I was dragging something heavy.

Biggest problem I have is lugging that thing around when _I'm_ out of shape LOL.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

The weight of the Saddle on a 10 Hour ride may make a touch of difference for your Horse, but probably not enough to really notice.

But, extra 10-15 lbs will make a difference for you lugging the Saddle around and putting it on your Horse all the time, IMO.

Have you looked into some of the A-Fork Trail Saddles? They are more compact and can weigh in the 28-29lb range.

Here is one http://westernsaddlery.us/images/ES-T-9110.jpg

I think most Association Saddles as well as Trail, Barrel, etc., pretty much all use a 7/8 rigging.

What size Tree, a Semi-QH, Regular or Full?


.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

If it fits well, the extra 10 lb weight shouldn't make a difference to the horse. Would you stop riding or be worried if you gained 10 lbs? If not, then don't sweat it...except for lugging it around. THEN you can sweat!


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

I have no idea how Western people haul those unbelievably heavy saddles around, I think my Aussie saddle at 19 lbs is heavy. Granted, I do Distance riding and long trail rides so the least amount of weight for both of us to haul around is my goal. I'm looking at upgrading to the Lite Rider at 16 lbs to shave off a few more.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

Lighter is better for you and your horse but not required. If a few pounds makes a difference to your horse then you probably shouldn't be riding them. If a few pounds makes a difference on whether you can saddle your horse or not you shouldn't buy the heavier saddle because we don't want you not to ride.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I show english and western and trail ride. Reason I choose english most of the time? My western saddle weighs about 30 or so pounds, one of my horses is 16HH, it's a chore.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Years ago, I was helping a friend by 'bucking hay' - collecting hay bales from the field and 'tossing' them onto a wagon pulled by a tractor. After a few hours, when I was too pooped to pop, he told me technique was important in tossing 100 lb bales on to the wagon and finally showed me how.

We remained friends in spite of his late-to-need instruction. In fact, he's the guy I got Trooper from about 30 years later. However, there is a technique in tossing a saddle on to the horse.

Now, as to carrying it out to where the horse is...I don't think there are any techniques. Oh well. My Aussie saddle is close to my western ones in weight, and the western ones sling easier up and over, so I figure it is a wash overall. Good luck to you, whatever you decide!


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> If it fits well, the extra 10 lb weight shouldn't make a difference to the horse. Would you stop riding or be worried if you gained 10 lbs?


Well, yes, I would be worried if I gained 10 lbs - and not just because of the horse  And I did get the lightest saddle I could find (Abetta Endurance at 17 lbs), precisely because I thought ~200 lbs of me plus heavy tack was too much weight for skinny little horse legs to carry.

Beyond that, I'm something of a minimalist in most things. I tend to adopt the Lotus design principle: "Simplify, then add lightness".


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

I ride 50 miles a month on one of my horses and my western saddle weighs 45lbs. The way I see it me + the weight of my saddle = the weight of most grown men so we are ok. 

And if I ever get the money to buy a nice light endurance saddle then my horse will surly drop a few min off his time!

As long as the saddle fits I don't think there is a problem. However, unless you are going to be roping then I don't think you need a super heavy saddle either.


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## Bellasmom (Jun 22, 2011)

As others have said, the weight won't matter to your horse but may very well matter to you. Western saddles are traditionally heavy, I think, because the original intended use involved roping, dragging, etc.. There are quite a few options in western trail and endurance saddles that are much lighter than the "traditional" western saddle. I traded my much loved Bighorn saddle of 20+ years in because I just could not throw the 40+ lbs up on my 15.2 horse easily anymore. I now ride an AMTS Wade that is about 25 lbs, very high quality, and has a look I love. I can't drag a cow with it, but I wasn't doing that anyway, lol.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

I have a heavy roping saddle that I bought recently-I'm a senior & it is hard to even saddle my short horses-luckily DH is tall, younger & quite strong, so he helps me. Do you have anyone around that could help you?


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## SteveDrider (Apr 20, 2014)

A fourty pound saddle is either for roping or equitation, if you only ride trails you should use a saddle that first fits the horse and you, then it should have a fairly high cantle for safety, and the stirrips should swing freely. I like the type that can be hosed clean. they don't weight much and don't stiffen from the rain.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I run barrels so an extra 20 pounds on me, or my tack, can make a difference against the clock. I try to keep my barrel saddles around 25 pounds or less. 

For trail riding? Won't make a difference. So long as it fits your horse and you are physically capable to getting it on his back. ;-)


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

As far as rider comfort, ask yourself this question:

Are you more comfortable in a kitchen chair or a Lazy-Boy Recliner.

Weight of the saddle, usually means more comfortable. Not always, but to get the same comfort from a light weight saddle expect to spend more for the latest hi-tech materials. 

I'm sure we're going to have a lot of people pipe in with how comfortable their ultralight weight saddle is....flame on.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Interesting thread because I keep playing with the idea of doing some western stuff with two of my horses - they will both neck rein and work in a western outline - but so far I've been put off by the weight of the saddles simply from the point of view of me carrying it from A to B and then throwing it up onto the horse without putting my back out. I suppose I could use the mounting block to do that


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I have ridden in several synthetics westerns, and none were overly comfy, nor did they fit the horse exceptionally well, they have no resale value and wear poorly. I have the first saddle I ever bought, a wintec synthetic, and its the saddle I put on colts for the first time, because if they wreck it I don't care. 

Its interesting all the different opinions. I love the look of the association, but cringe at the weight. I'm still considering a barrel saddle, but worry at the comfort/quality.

I've had aussies before that I really like, but I find to get a good one you have to spend over $2000, and used good ones are never for sale. The ones under that price range have flocking that compresses badly after a couple years of steady use, and I cant find any where in my area to re stuff the saddle panels for under $500.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Some video advice for handling a western saddle from one of our fellow members:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgaSY1wxoH0&list=UUU7PYYaPkTOE2D5kF7OxdRA


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

The video was cool, but the horse was quite co-operative also. Men make things like that look easy, but when the person saddling is just a bit over 5', and not a lot of upper body strength, saddling is a tough part of riding. I don't ride my roper often-my main saddle is my old Aussie, which probably weighs about 20 pounds-I bought it used back in the 80's & it's very comfortable. I have ridden my Morgan w/my English saddle & that weighs even less. For rider comfort-my western saddle & my English saddle have seat cushions on them-it really makes a difference.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

To a certain extent, getting a horse to stand still while someone tosses a saddle on their back is a trained response via desensitization. It might require a guy or big gal to initially train the horse to stand still since that requires being comfortable with slinging it one handed. Getting the horse used to things slapping against its far side helps. Done right, however, there is very little slap from the off-fender and cinch.

Slinging a saddle on has a variety of variations. It would be best to practice either on a very patient horse or perhaps a fence rail of suitable size. As is true of slinging 100 lb bales of hay all day, technique is more important than absolute strength (although absolute strength is nice, too). A saddle in motion tends to stay in motion, and it is easier to convert sideways motion into vertical motion than it is to lift a stationary dead weight. Approach it as judo rather than weight lifting.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

bsms said:


> Some video advice for handling a western saddle from one of our fellow members:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgaSY1wxoH0&list=UUU7PYYaPkTOE2D5kF7OxdRA


I appreciate what he's saying in the video (and I think his drawl is adorable), but that horse is tiny, even if he is a taller guy. That technique would not work very well for a woman saddling a tall horse (I'm 5'7" and my boy is 16.3-17hh, which means his back is a good 6"+ above my shoulder height), with a heavy saddle. When I get my western saddle, I will most likely have to stand on a mounting block to saddle him (I'm looking at a Corriente roping saddle that weighs 45lbs fully-fitted and I have a bad shoulder, so lifting any significant weight above shoulder height is torture, assuming I can do it).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

FWIW, since I currently don't have a trailer tall enough for Rafe to ride in while saddled, I have to saddle him whenever we get to where we're going. For the trip, my saddle and pad are just thrown on the back of the truck (flat-bed). When it comes time to saddle him, I trained him to walk up beside the truck bed and stand still and I stand on the bed and lower the saddle down onto him. I'll have to try to remember to have someone get a picture this summer if we get cattle.

I do have to agree with BSMS though, technique means a lot as far as making saddling easy. Even when I'm out of shape, throwing my saddle up on something around 15 hands is easy. I swing it around and use my leg to lift it the first part. I'll try to remember to get a video of me saddling a horse one of these days so ya'll can see what I mean.

However, at some height, even technique won't be enough. I've been saddling all my own horses since I was about 11, when I developed enough strength to actually carry my saddle by myself (I've always had heavy roping saddles), so I don't think my technique is lacking, but when someone my size is trying to get 40 pounds up on something his size, it gets hard to do and there is a fair amount of "muscle" requirement too :wink:.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

You know, there IS a reason why most cow horses are somewhere under 18 hands...:wink: Heck, if I could figure out a way to make Mia 4-5 inches shorter, down to 14.2, I'd do it in a heartbeat! Then I could sing:

14.2, eyes of blue, but oh what those 14 hands can do, has anybody seen my gal...​


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

gunslinger said:


> As far as rider comfort, ask yourself this question:
> 
> Are you more comfortable in a kitchen chair or a Lazy-Boy Recliner.


Not really a fair question, as it depends on what you're doing in that chair. I don't have any real experience with riding in heavy saddles, but in my mind I compare it to the difference between a typical overstuffed SUV seat and a Recaro racing seat. The latter is, to me, much more comfortable.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Better fit and quality always beat lightness, every time. If you have a heavy saddle that fits properly it will be better than the lightest saddle that doesn't fit. In terms of quality, a well made leather saddle with wood/rawhide tree will usually be the best way to go and outlast anything else if looked after. 

The big heavy western saddles are big and heavy usually for a few reasons. 1) they are built for work (or originally were) and need to be solid enough to do the job without breaking. 2) one of the jobs is to be an anchor of sorts when roping and good weight distribution is important for that, weight of the rider and the gear, but the beast on the rope too. So generally, though the saddle may over all be heavier it may actually have better weight distribution than a smaller lighter saddle. 

Then there are ways to lighten a saddle. My wade saddle is huge and is very heavy, but even I'm surprised at how much less it weighs just by something simple like changing the stirrups. I have big leather bound roper stirups on it, if I change them and put on wooden ox bows, the saddle is noticeably lighter. Also it has 3/4 in skirt rigging so it doesn't really need the flank girth (I always figured better to have it there anyway so I had it built with on), take the flank girth off, and the billets and it lightens it up even more. 

Or, if you have an option between two possible saddles, one with square skirts, one with round skirts, the round skirted saddle will be lighter. 

I have done some serious miles in my wade and always found horses to work better with it than anything else I rode in, its heavy but the better fit makes more difference.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

AnrewPL said:


> The big heavy western saddles are big and heavy usually for a few reasons. 1) they are built for work (or originally were) and need to be solid enough to do the job without breaking. 2) one of the jobs is to be an anchor of sorts when roping and good weight distribution is important for that, weight of the rider and the gear, but the beast on the rope too.


Sure. Now the question: how many of us will ever do any roping? Does it make sense to ride in a saddle built for work, when we're not going to do work? It's kind like the folks who only drive their 4WD F-350s to the office and back


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Weight doesn't essentially = comfort in an english saddle so I'm not sure why it should be different in the western?
My new (leather English) saddles are far lighter and a lot more comfortable than the than the old ones used to be


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Sure. Now the question: how many of us will ever do any roping? Does it make sense to ride in a saddle built for work, when we're not going to do work? It's kind like the folks who only drive their 4WD F-350s to the office and back


Actually it makes economic sense to drive my 4x4 F350 to work. Driving it is cheaper than making payments an insurance on a more fuel efficient car. I can buy an awful lot of diesel for what a new car sells for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Not really a fair question, as it depends on what you're doing in that chair. I don't have any real experience with riding in heavy saddles, but in my mind I compare it to the difference between a typical overstuffed SUV seat and a Recaro racing seat. The latter is, to me, much more comfortable.


On a 10 hour trail ride, like Op said, would you still take that racing seat?


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

jamesqf said:


> Sure. Now the question: how many of us will ever do any roping? Does it make sense to ride in a saddle built for work, when we're not going to do work? It's kind like the folks who only drive their 4WD F-350s to the office and back


I didn't suggest that everyone should be riding in a western saddle built for stock work; I was explaining why the average western saddle is generally quite heavy. What I did recommend however that if the OP is faced with a choice between light saddle that is an average fit and run of the mill quality OR a heavier saddle which is a good fit and better quality (particularly if it is hand made an on a wood/rawhide tree) it is always better to err on the side of good fit and quality rather than lightness. 

I then pointed out a couple of ways that make it possible to lighten an otherwise heavy saddle, and pointed out how different attributes of a western saddle might make it lighter, like round v square skirts.

So, no, not everyone has to ride around in a stock saddle, I don't believe I recommended that at all.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, I decided I need to ride western more, so I cut 15 minutes off my workout because I am carrying a 30 lb (or more I think!) saddle out of my tackroom, out of my house, over to the arena and hoisting it up on a 16hh horse. After our ride, I pack it back into the house, in the tackroom, well I lied right there. I cheated and put it in the trailer which is parked right next to my arena and left on the saddle rack. Anyways OP, look at it this way, it's part of a daily workout routine, keeps you in shape.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

jaydee said:


> Weight doesn't essentially = comfort in an english saddle so I'm not sure why it should be different in the western?
> My new (leather English) saddles are far lighter and a lot more comfortable than the than the old ones used to be


In the western world, a heavy saddle is generally a well made saddle. Even trail and barrel saddles that are non-synthetic should weigh somewhere in the vicinity of 30 pounds. Some decent makers can make a quality saddle that is somewhat lighter, but most mass produced quality leather saddles will still have some heft to them. If I saw any leather western saddle for sale that weighed only 20 pounds, I would run in the other direction. 

Here is a perfect example. You know it's crap quality just by looking so most folks don't notice that the weight for a 15" is only 22 pounds. They advertise it as a "rawhide covered" but a quality rawhide covered tree of any style will weigh close to 20 pounds by itself.

King Series Cowboy RO Serpentine Saddle - Horse.com


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

gunslinger said:


> On a 10 hour trail ride, like Op said, would you still take that racing seat?


I think that all depends on the person. I have spent up to 18 hours in my saddle.. one my DH describes as a sheepskin cover over a 2x4.

Thing is, it fits the horse and it fits me. 

In relation to the OP's question, its also pretty ****ed heavy compared to most endurance saddles. Only time I am sorry about that fact is trying to put it back on the horse in the last hold of a 100. :wink:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> ...Does it make sense to ride in a saddle built for work, when we're not going to do work? It's kind like the folks who only drive their 4WD F-350s to the office and back


Yes & no. To go with the car analogy: A couple of years ago, we didn't want a truck but we wanted something that wouldn't leak oil at the sight of a dirt road. We bought an XTerra, which is one of the few SUVs that still uses leaf springs in the rear. We bought a 2WD because this is southern Arizona. But I like the ground clearance and heavy duty suspension. Most of its use is on pavement, but it can take me further.

I don't need a roping quality saddle horn. The only time I put the saddle horn to good use is when Mia gets too scared and won't stop long enough for me to dismount - which she seems to think is a preliminary to my running away and leaving her to deal with the scary thing. That is when I turn her head, wrap a couple of loops of rein around the horn and dismount while she is getting straightened out.

Since I don't rope, I don't worry about a back cinch.

However, I do want a good quality tree and decent weight leather. Both of those add to longevity. My Abetta is probably tough enough for my use, but *I want leather.* *I like the way it looks, smells and sounds*. I defy you to find a movie where John Wayne rode in a nylon saddle! If modern was what I wanted, I could get a dirt bike. *I want my saddle to creak more than I do!* It is part of the mystique of riding...although I wish my wife wouldn't ask when saddles started groaning as well. :evil:

If I rode something that had an affinity for railroad tracks and neighed "Mommy!" at the sight of a locomotive, it might be different. :wink: Mia has the legs of a runway model, and possibly the brains of one, albeit with a lot more muscle and a much sweeter personality. But I'm tall enough & have enough 'prosperity' around my waist to put some momentum into my saddle before it starts its upward arc, so that is OK. Once on, it is the equine equivalent of waresbear's traveling gym, helping Mia to put on muscle throughout the ride.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

smrobs said:


> Here is a perfect example. You know it's crap quality just by looking so most folks don't notice that the weight for a 15" is only 22 pounds. They advertise it as a "rawhide covered" but a quality rawhide covered tree of any style will weigh close to 20 pounds by itself.
> 
> King Series Cowboy RO Serpentine Saddle - Horse.com


I took a King Series apart one time after someone rode in it one time and the tree broke. They go by Tough One, Royal King and Silver King, in English they go by Silver Royal, Equiroyal and Silver Fox, Aussies are called Outrider.

The Tree was hollow fiberglass and it was not even good fiberglass...lol..

Their version of Rawhide Covered Tree was a thin layer (and I mean thin, as thin as a sheet of paper) of Rawhide about 1.5" wide that was wrapped around the edges of the Tree, the wrapping did not even go all the way around the tree edges....

It is a shame that a US Company would import such junk and then the 100 or so Tack Dealers that sell that junk to unsuspecting Horse Lovers are even worse, it is nothing but animal cruelty, IMO. Especially if you have personally seen the aftermath of several Horses hurt when these Saddles start coming apart and a few screws and nails have left a gouge in the poor Horses flesh......

.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

gunslinger said:


> On a 10 hour trail ride, like Op said, would you still take that racing seat?


Probably yes, with the saddle equivalent. Definitely yes with the Recaro car seat vs what's in a typical SUV. 

I admit to not having a lot of first-hand experience with a variety of saddles. Certainly the 17 lb Abetta is more comfortable for me than the couple of heavier ones I've tried, but that was only for short rides. I'd have to do 10-hour trail rides in both to give a positive answer. 

Generally I would choose the lightest saddle I could find (that meets standards of quality & fit) for the trail ride for the same reason I choose the lightest backpacking & biking gear that I reasonably can.



> If I saw any leather western saddle for sale that weighed only 20 pounds, I would run in the other direction.


Sure, if it's leather. But if it's a 20 lbs saddle using synthetics, with say a carbon fiber tree and titanium fittings? (If such a thing exists...)


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Sure, if it's leather. But if it's a 20 lbs saddle using synthetics, with say a carbon fiber tree and titanium fittings? (If such a thing exists...)


Unfortunately, such a thing does not exist. This is mainly because carbon fiber and titanium fittings are not exactly cost-effective materials, despite their usefulness. Synthetic saddles (generally speaking) are made to be inexpensive, lightweight, durable alternatives to traditional leather saddles for people who can't afford leather or don't want to deal with the upkeep of leather (again, these are generalizations). The key draw of synthetic saddles, at least with people who I know that have had them, is that they are much cheaper than traditional leather saddles. Carbon fiber and titanium are not generally heard in even the same zip code as words like "inexpensive" and "cheap."

I own a synthetic saddle (poorly-planned purchase on my part). It weighs less than my German-made Stubben Seigfried English saddle. Considerably less. Just looking at it you can see how shoddy the "craftsmanship" on it is. Luckily, it doesn't fit my horse, so I don't have to worry about using it (I'm actually trying to sell it). I sat on it briefly on a saddle stand at my barn. I immediately got back off. There was no way I wanted to sit on that thing for ten minutes, much less ten hours.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## b7afonso (Apr 2, 2014)

Interesting... but what about the riders weight? If say it's a full grown tall man, and weighing about 198 lbs is it important to have a bigger stronger horse?


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

b7afonso said:


> Interesting... but what about the riders weight? If say it's a full grown tall man, and weighing about 198 lbs is it important to have a bigger stronger horse?



While I think rider weight (including tack) does matter to the overall equation, having a bigger horse is not always the answer to a heavier rider, unless by 'bigger' you are talking bone density to weight ratio.

Think of all the old-type (almost said true-type but don't want to start a war :wink working QHs that carted men around for hours without issue. And I know lots of "little" arabs carrying big people for many many miles without issue.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, Phantom, you wouldn't get any argument from me about those being the "true type" QHs :wink:. There are very few lines in QHs these days that can actually stand up to having a _real_, physically demanding job for years without breaking down (mostly the ranch lines).


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

jamesqf said:


> Sure, if it's leather. But if it's a 20 lbs saddle using synthetics, with say a carbon fiber tree and titanium fittings? (If such a thing exists...)


Maybe it's just the traditionalist in me, but I couldn't bring myself to buy a synthetic saddle. I'd rather ride bareback. Even the "quality" synthetics I've seen just don't look quality to me. Plus, I do a fair amount of roping/dragging, so I need a saddle to hold up to that.

I know what it's like to be on a strict budget, but so many people never think that you can still get a good quality saddle for not that much money. Because they think they have to have something _right this moment,_ they go out and buy one of those $300 complete packages that won't last a year under normal use...if they can use them that long without crippling their horse, but if they would just take a couple extra months and save up, they could get something much better quality that will actually last a lifetime or more.

Mine was custom made exactly the way I wanted it, it fits almost every horse I've put it on, I've rode a billion miles in it and roped some heavy critters with no problems. It's the only saddle I've ever owned that I can ride in for hours and days on end without hurting in my knees/hips at the end of the day, and I've yet to have it sore a horse, no matter what we were doing.

I paid a whopping $687 for it, including shipping...but it also weighs over 40 pounds.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

I use a comparison when someone asks for a cheap saddle.

You can buy a Yugo (remember those?) for 10,000.00 and they will carry 2 people from the west coast to the easy coast.
You can buy a Cadillac for 30,000.00 and they will carry 2 people from the west coast to the east coast. 

Now which one will be more comfortable, be safer, break down less and last the longest?????

Hello....... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

There are several companies that make decent quality saddles with a full range of saddle tree sizes for under $1000 new. Once you go used, there are decent saddles for general purpose riding in the $500 range, which is only $100 more than a new synthetic. Our Circle Y was $500 used.

I have an Abetta. It doesn't fit me, but it works fine as a saddle for our little mustang. He's riden a half dozen times a year whether he needs it or not and probably weighs around 700 lbs, so small and light and cheap were all good things in a saddle for him. It is a good saddle. The tree is a standard ralide tree. It won't hold up to roping, but it is decent riding tree. I hate the nylon fenders, but it is a perfectly reasonable cheap saddle. It is very light. 








​ However, I don't believe it is any more comfortable to the horse for saving 20 lbs. Assuming the saddle fits, the extra 20 lbs of a saddle is perfectly distributed...over how much area? Compare the Circly Y Mojave distribution area to the Abetta distribution area to the Bates Caprilli CC distribution area in the picture below:








​ 
If you were a horse, would you rather have an extra 20 lbs in the Circle Y, or save the weight but then have the weight of both saddle & rider concentrated in the area of the Abetta saddle? My Bates frees the horse's back up nicely, but on a longer trail ride where I don't want to use a forward seat the entire time...well, that is not what it was designed for. It is a fine saddle, but horses for courses and saddles that match!


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

great responses everyone.

I think I'm really leaning towards the association. Both Pickles and Nevada are 14.3-15hh, and they are what I will be riding most. For the others that are taller, I will have to get creative. I'm 5'4" and fairly fine boned. My Bo might have to help, or I could use the fence or truck bed. I'll just loose 20lb, and then they'll be carrying the same amount as a lighter saddle anyways.:lol:

For anyone looking at an aussie because of the weight, please save up. The last one I bought was somewhere in the vicinity of $1000, which, considering most are in the $500 range, is a nicer model. It was crap. The flocking compressed badly in months, the metal d at the front started pulling out of the saddle, and the craftsmanship was awful. The leather in some places had gaps, and was held together with large stitches. When I told the supplier, they were very sympathetic, but they claimed all the saddles looked like that now. They are made in india. I was pretty put off the 'inexpensive' aussies after that.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

For those looking at Australian saddles, this is my DownUnder. I've had it three years. On the whole, I think it is in better shape now than when I bought it. I had it resized to be a little narrower a couple of weeks ago. It now fits fine without any extra pads. It runs around $1000 new. I bought mine when they were having a 25% off Christmas sale for just over $700 new:










Weight wise, with girth and stirrups, etc, it feels to my arm about as heavy as my Circle Y. I think western saddles offer better quality at a given price and I don't think a western saddle is that much heavier. DownUnder advertises mine at 21 lbs, larger sizes slightly more, without girth, stirrups, leathers, etc. My Circle Y is advertised as weighing 27 lbs. I'd bet they are within 3-4 lbs of each other. 

However, I consider an Australian style saddle a viable alternative. With my eyes shut, it feels to my butt like my Bates All Purpose (although not like the jump saddle), but even my inexperienced - dare I say green? - butt has sat through a lot of spooks and spins in it. I have reluctantly concluded the Clinton Anderson/Martin western saddle I bought used doesn't fit my horse acceptably, so I'm back to the above saddle until I can find a decent quality western that fits my horse, my budget & me.​


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

I almost hate posting since this seems to be a Western saddle thread and I have not even sat in a Western saddle in about 8 years, but I'll throw in my lightness ideas.

Weight does bear a consideration in some competitions such as endurance especially if you are in a "weight" class so it is easier to take weight off of a saddle than yourself 

After I tore my rotary cuff I stopped throwing anything heavier than 20 lbs, it is for sheer self preservation plus I rode mostly in English saddles after starting in Western stock saddles. I swore after my first English saddle to never punish myself with tack that is heavy again 

Now since I do Distance riding weight is an issue for me, I need light weight yet sturdy tack and I found it in my Australian Saddle. Yes, it is the synthetic but I found synthetic to be much more forgiving on Distance trails and easy to maintain.

Honestly, at the end of the day you just go with what works for you and your horse.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Synthetic saddles (generally speaking) are made to be inexpensive, lightweight, durable alternatives to traditional leather saddles for people who can't afford leather or don't want to deal with the upkeep of leather (again, these are generalizations). The key draw of synthetic saddles, at least with people who I know that have had them, is that they are much cheaper than traditional leather saddles. Carbon fiber and titanium are not generally heard in even the same zip code as words like "inexpensive" and "cheap."


Don't know enough about the saddle market to really comment. I can only say that for me, lightness was the first consideration, then ease of care. Cost was not a major factor. But maybe I was more predisposed to the idea of synthetics because I was new to horses, but had decades of experience backpacking, biking, and similar activities where synthetics were the norm.



SouthernTrails said:


> You can buy a Yugo (remember those?) for 10,000.00 and they will carry 2 people from the west coast to the easy coast.
> You can buy a Cadillac for 30,000.00 and they will carry 2 people from the west coast to the east coast.


Or you can buy a Lotus for $50K


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Don't know enough about the saddle market to really comment. I can only say that for me, lightness was the first consideration, then ease of care. Cost was not a major factor. But maybe I was more predisposed to the idea of synthetics because I was new to horses, but had decades of experience backpacking, biking, and similar activities where synthetics were the norm.
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can buy a Lotus for $50K


How many Lotus's do you see on the road versus Cadillac?

I've had my share of hot rods in my day, and there's a time and a place for everything. My time and place, is all about comfort. A racing seat isn't what I want to set in to go coast to coast.....maybe 40 years ago...but not now.


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

I think the weight issue for hauling the saddle from the tack room to the horse and onto the horse is a very personal issue. 

Like I said my saddle is 40+lbs and I have never been bothered by the weight to carry it around. Then again I am young, strong and healthy. My saddle is also older than I am and was made in a better time. Its better quality and just built better then most of the ones I see around today.

There is also technique. Some one mentioned bucking hay. I can out work most men twice my size when it comes to bucking, yes I have all ways been very strong for my size, but its technique and endurance rather than strength. I can out last most men as far as how many hours I can stand under a horse trimming and shoeing.

I used to own two 17hh TB and I could easily sling my 40 pounder on them with out issue. Depends on the person.

So for me I have never considered the weight of a saddle as far as my ability to carry it or put it on a horse.


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## tman33 (Jul 4, 2011)

I talked with a saddle maker out west who stated that 80% of his saddles now are Wade a-forks when it use to be the other way around. As far as the weight goes we have never had an issue with 34-40+ pound saddles making a difference and most of us are 200-240 pound men. We ride 8+ hours in 90+ degree with 90-100% humidity here in NW Alabama.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

gunslinger said:


> How many Lotus's do you see on the road versus Cadillac?


That would sidetrack us into a discussion of my opinions on the intelligence & taste of the average American 

But for a somewhat similar question, how many people do you suppose will ride horses this coming weekend, versus the number who will sit in front of the TV watching the Kentucky Derby?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Bluespark, you can rig up a contraption in your barn (if you have the space/rafters to do it) like shorter Amish men do with their harness. They basically have "standing stalls" where the harness is hanging over the horse on hooks attached to a pulley system. They lead the horse into the stall and then lower the harness onto them instead of trying to manage and throw 40+ pounds of harness on something that may be 17+ hands tall. I can attest to the fact that 40 pounds of harness is a lot harder to manage than 40 pounds of saddle LOL.

I have thought of doing something like that for Rafe because it does get so hard to saddle him, especially if I'm tired. Tie a rope or something through the gullet or to the horn and pull it up into the rafters, then just lower it onto him.....if he'd stand still long enough :wink:.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

As for Aussie saddles, mine is handmade leather that weighs maybe 25lbs fully-fitted (with a western girth). I paid $125 for it, used.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

My next saddle is the Kimberly Lite Rider and at 16lbs with rigging it is perfect for my needs.

I will say this, yes a 40lb Western saddle will do the job it is meant to do, haul people around, ranch work/annoying cattle, and does distribute the weight evenly (if properly made)

Now, the problem with 40 lb saddle is that fitting and weight distribution is much more vitally important than in a 8 lb English saddle. I've seen more bad fitting Western saddles ( way too many QHs I've trailed with had white spots on withers and back ) then English saddles. So my biggest advice would be make sure that Western saddle fits and is in proper balance.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I didn't read all the posts. Maybe someone covered this already. 

Not all saddles are created equal. There are many light saddles out there that are cheap. I'm not saying all light saddles are cheap but it is something to watch for. 

With my limited experience of only ever having a few saddles, the lighter ones are not as good quality as the heavier ones. They were cheaper in price too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> That would sidetrack us into a discussion of my opinions on the intelligence & taste of the average American
> 
> But for a somewhat similar question, how many people do you suppose will ride horses this coming weekend, versus the number who will sit in front of the TV watching the Kentucky Derby?


Count me as one on a horse and not watching.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

bsms said:


> However, I do want a good quality tree and decent weight leather. Both of those add to longevity. My Abetta is probably tough enough for my use, but *I want leather.* *I like the way it looks, smells and sounds*. I defy you to find a movie where John Wayne rode in a nylon saddle! If modern was what I wanted, I could get a dirt bike. *I want my saddle to creak more than I do!* It is part of the mystique of riding...although I wish my wife wouldn't ask when saddles started groaning as well. :evil:


Nothing beats the smell of leather. 

My wife complains each time we ride about how much my saddle creaks. Glad it's not me yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Willlow & Honey wouldn't complain about the extra weight but I sometimes think Looby firmly believes that I should carry her - a 40lb saddle would finish her altogether!!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Idrivetrotters said:


> ...Now, the problem with 40 lb saddle is that fitting and weight distribution is much more vitally important than in a 8 lb English saddle....


I disagree. Once you put 150+ lbs of rider in the saddle, the weight difference isn't much...but the area the weight is distributed over is much greater in a western saddle. If I get sloppy in a western saddle, my horse may not complain. If I get sloppy in an English saddle, her head comes up, an ear swivels, the tail starts swishing and she makes it clear she is not a happy camper.

However, it is probably easier to see if an English saddle fits OK than a western. The leather skirts make it tough to see, and moving your hand under the saddle disturbs the saddle position and distorts your perception. Having struggled with sincerely wanting to know if a certain western saddle fits right underneath all that leather and on top of an inch of wool felt, I find it much harder to visualize what is going on unless an obvious problem arises. It doesn't help that each tree maker has a different idea about what SemiQH bars look like!

One manufacturer has a 'fit the horse' program where you can get a fiberglass mold of their tree. That allows you to see the fit. In Mia's case, this is their standard quarter horse bar tree form. They have seen the photos - and I took about a dozen total of her & Trooper - and recommended a different tree to try...I'm just not sure trying a more specialized tree is in my budget right now. I will say that is makes checking fit a much easier process:








​


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Maybe it's just the traditionalist in me, but I couldn't bring myself to buy a synthetic saddle. I'd rather ride bareback. Even the "quality" synthetics I've seen just don't look quality to me. Plus, I do a fair amount of roping/dragging, so I need a saddle to hold up to that.
> 
> I know what it's like to be on a strict budget, but so many people never think that you can still get a good quality saddle for not that much money. Because they think they have to have something _right this moment,_ they go out and buy one of those $300 complete packages that won't last a year under normal use...if they can use them that long without crippling their horse, but if they would just take a couple extra months and save up, they could get something much better quality that will actually last a lifetime or more.
> 
> ...


that's the best advice yet. Don't rush into it and if you can make do with what you have or can beg or borrow while you save money to buy good quality it will be the best in the long run. I have had 2 custom built saddles, both of them I paid for while working as a ringer (cowboy/buckaroo for the North Americans) and it took me a while to save for them, but they are two of the best saddles I have ever sat in and would never part with them.
Its always better to save and buy quality whether its light or heavy or in between.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)




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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I can't really add a whole to what has already been said but I can reiterate 

If I were you Blue Spark I would pass on the barrel and team roping style of saddles. They simple aren't designed for long hours. It is about positioning the rider for a short run. I like barrel saddles obviously for barrel racing and I have started a pile of colts in a barrel saddle but I never liked them for many hour s in a single ride. I cowboyed for a short while in a team roping(quality one) it about crippled me. 
My mom rode a custom built cutting saddle for years. Last spring she rode one of my ranch saddles and she hadn't rode for years due to getting sore and hip replacement, it was the first time even before her arthritis and hip replacement that she could ride for that many miles and hours. The style of saddle makes the difference.

So basically what I am getting at is, I would strongly recommend a ranch/cowboying saddle regardless of weight. Yes, they are heavier, mine weigh close to 50# with cinches, rope, tie strings, hobbles..etc...but they are built to ride in all day and hold up to abuse. I haven't found the weight to be an issue honestly. I do ride smaller horses, I think my tallest horse is about 16H, maybe 16.1H, and technique is the key to getting the saddle up there. I don't even think twice about the weight as far the horse packing the saddle all day either. I am not in any endurance race but we can do quite a few miles over the course of several hours and most of it is at a trot gathering and trailing cattle and I don't think the weight makes any difference as far as how long my horse lasts through the day. I ride some of the same horses as my husband does and he weighs 50 lbs more than I do and when I ride the same horse doing the same job he isn't any better off, if that makes sense.
Good luck in your search!


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

I will throw in my two cents and honestly, it is up to you and your horse as to what saddle you go with. I would honestly stop riding if my only choice was a 50 lb saddle, it is entirely detrimental to my long term health and I'd be concerned with long term soundness on my horse.

Honestly, it comes down to how long you are in the saddle, how tall your horse is, and your upper body strength and rotary cuff health.

If you plan on doing distance riding or more adventurous trails then you may want to look at an endurance type saddle or an Australian saddle. Not only is the weight easy on both of you, long term comfort in the saddle is a major bonus with these type saddles. They are designed for long hours of use, heat dissipation, and safety over varied terrain. Those poleys on Aussie saddles are an amazing invention. We have a saying in Distance riding and that is "It is the weight not the miles" that is the biggest factor in distance riding. 

If you are going on more leisurely hacks then almost any saddle can work from a nice Dressage saddle to most Western saddles. You may want a tush cush if the saddle seat is hard, but not necessary.

If bothering cows is part of your riding repertoire then yes, a heavy/sturdy roping saddle is your best bet. This is the type I grew up in and nothing like having to drag a saddle that weighs just less than you do. I swore that darn saddle did more to push me to English riding than anything else  

Saddles are as personal as breeds and everybody has a bias. Just take an honest look at how much time you will honestly be in that saddle and go from there.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Idrivetrotters said:


> I will throw in my two cents and honestly, it is up to you and your horse as to what saddle you go with. *I would honestly stop riding if my only choice was a 50 lb saddle,* it is entirely detrimental to my long term health and* I'd be concerned with long term soundness on my horse.*
> 
> Honestly, it comes down to how long you are in the saddle, how tall your horse is, and your upper body strength and rotary cuff health.
> 
> ...


 
To the bolded, your joking right?
I read earlier that you have rotary cuff issues, I agree a 30, 40+ # saddle probably wouldn't be good choice for you.
But as far as the long term soundness of the horse being effected by a 50# saddle I am going to say your reaching. By saying that is like stating that all horses ridden in English saddles stay sounder longer than horses ridden in western saddles.:wink:


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I find it interesting that some people are relating saddles to back packs. I fit packs professionally, and have for the last 4 years. I own an ultra light pack, and a much heavier all purpose, that can carry the same volume. they both fit. The all purpose is made of sturdier fabric, with a thicker frame, and has more straps and buckles for carrying things, giving me more options. For short trips I go with the light pack, to shave as many pounds as I can. But if I was looking at a multi day trip, where I would be packing for several hours each day, I would not hesitate to grab the heavier pack, knowing that the extra durability, comfort and versatility would be worth the few extra pounds. I'm small framed, and weight carrying is not my strong point.


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

Yes, I have a rotary cuff issue that occurred when I took a spill on a racetrack a few years ago. I can barely get 15 lbs over my shoulder plane and if I go if a greater weight then I am nearly crippled for 2 days. I would honestly have to give up riding (which since I drive as much as I ride I'm good) if my only choices were heavy saddles.

I also ride mostly distance, 25 to 50 mile rides, and for smaller rides under 15 miles any saddle works, but for long term soundness of a distance horse, lightness and saddle fit are our biggest priorities. The saying in distance is "It is weight not the miles" as far as long term soundness. I've never seen a 50 lb saddle on any ride over 25 miles, you see a few rookies in heavy roping saddles for their first few rides, but if they stay with the sport, they transition to lighter saddles. There is a big reason why most endurance saddles are so light weight.

I'm not saying stop riding in a heavy saddle, if it works for you and your horse then have at it. There is a reason why there are so many different kinds of saddles, there is no one size fits all.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'll just point out that I know of ranchers who ride well over 25 miles/day on a regular basis without worrying about their saddle's weight, and some of them are pretty big boys themselves - a lot bigger than I am. A 210 pound guy in a 15 pound saddle would have a total weight the same as my 175 pounds in a 50 pound saddle.

Most leather western saddles are going to come in at 25+ lbs, so a 50 lb saddle is only an extra 20-25 lbs over a light western saddle. If 20-25 lbs will break your horse, it might be time to look for a different horse.

It varies, but a ROT I've seen is that a western saddle distributes weight over about 50% more area than an English saddle does. If a 200+ lb guy is in the saddle, that is significant.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

BlueSpark said:


> I find it interesting that some people are relating saddles to back packs. I fit packs professionally, and have for the last 4 years. I own an ultra light pack, and a much heavier all purpose, that can carry the same volume. they both fit. The all purpose is made of sturdier fabric, with a thicker frame, and has more straps and buckles for carrying things, giving me more options.


I'd bet that neither pack is made of leather, nor do they have fittings made of steel or brass. I'd expect that they're both made from the lightest practical material (nylon & aluminum, probably): the sturdier pack just uses thicker grades of the same materials for added strength.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Most serious backpacks are made to carry more than 20-25% of a person's weight...more like 70% for military use. If I ever get the urge to toss my 600 lbs on Mia, I'll be sure to get her a light saddle.  Nor are humans and horses built alike. They have 4 legs, not 2, and our center of gravity ought to be close to theirs, not entirely in front of the weight being carried.

Suppose I go from a 20 lb saddle to a 40 lb saddle. The total weight for Mia would be 195 vs 215, or a 10% savings. Compared to her weight, it would go from 23.8% to 21.7%. Based on the difference in footprint between my Abetta & Martin, the PSI on her back would go UP, not down. Compared to my body weight, it would be like dropping 3.5 lbs from the pack, but making the shoulder straps narrower so they would dig in more.

I've just switched back to an Australian design because my Martin saddle - which I love - just doesn't fit Mia well enough. However, having watched Mia's reaction, I am certain she would vote to go back to the Martin...even though the Martin does not fit her. She is happier doing an extended sitting trot in the Martin than she is doing a posting trot or even 2-point in my Australian saddle. That is a pretty good indication to me that the big ole western saddle is protecting her back in a way my Australian-style saddle does not. :?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

jamesqf said:


> I'd bet that neither pack is made of leather, nor do they have fittings made of steel or brass. I'd expect that they're both made from the lightest practical material (nylon & aluminum, probably): the sturdier pack just uses thicker grades of the same materials for added strength.


Therein lies the conundrum with western saddles though. Those that are built to be light...are _only _built to be light. They aren't built for all-day comfort for the horse or the rider. They aren't built to stand up to the rigors of riding miles and miles every day for years. The materials and workmanship are generally mediocre at best.

I've known and ridden with a lot of people who bought "quality" synthetic western saddles because they were light and because they were cheap and swore up and down that they "fit like a glove". At the end of a 8 hour trail ride, _their _horses were the ones that were sore and had dry spots all over their backs, _they _were the ones complaining about how bad their butt/hips/knees/back hurt. Me and my horses, in our 40+ pound saddles, were the ones that could have gone on for another 8 hours...then got up in the morning and do it again.

If a person physically isn't _able _to lift such a heavy saddle, that's completely understandable to go with something more lightweight; BUT (and this is sort of a sweeping generalization that may or may not fit everyone) I doubt that _most _folks with those types of physical limitations are riding enough for there to be a noticeable difference in the effect on their horse between a good quality leather saddle and your average synthetic, providing the fit isn't terrible.

I believe Idrivetrotters to be the exception instead of the rule in that regard.


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## Idrivetrotters (Jan 5, 2013)

There is a HUGE difference between working 25 miles on a ranch and doing 25 miles in a timed event. Most ranch horses are doing those miles spread out over a much longer period of time then in Distance riding where we have minimum and maximum times. 

I'm not trying to convert anybody to a lighter saddle, I use the saddle that fits my horses needs, my needs, and what fits my riding discipline. I just have to reiterate that a TIMED SPEED EVENT over 25 to 50 miles is not the typical riding that most stock horses and stock horse people do. There is again a reason why there are many different horse breeds, many different riding disciplines, and many choices in saddles. 

You don't expect to ride a dressage test in a roping saddle, and you don't expect to heel a cow with a jumping saddle. Each saddle has a specific purpose and finding a saddle that fits your horse, yourself, and what you do together is what is most important.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Idrivetrotters said:


> There is a HUGE difference between working 25 miles on a ranch and doing 25 miles in a timed event. Most ranch horses are doing those miles spread out over a much longer period of time then in Distance riding where we have minimum and maximum times.
> 
> I'm not trying to convert anybody to a lighter saddle, I use the saddle that fits my horses needs, my needs, and what fits my riding discipline. I just have to reiterate that a TIMED SPEED EVENT over 25 to 50 miles is not the typical riding that most stock horses and stock horse people do. There is again a reason why there are many different horse breeds, many different riding disciplines, and many choices in saddles.
> 
> You don't expect to ride a dressage test in a roping saddle, and you don't expect to heel a cow with a jumping saddle. Each saddle has a specific purpose and finding a saddle that fits your horse, yourself, and what you do together is what is most important.


This is all true, but I don't think the OP mentioned anything about doing long distance timed speed events. She just said that she would likely spend long hours in the saddle.




COWCHICK77 said:


> If I were you Blue Spark I would pass on the barrel and team roping style of saddles. They simple aren't designed for long hours. It is about positioning the rider for a short run. I like barrel saddles obviously for barrel racing and I have started a pile of colts in a barrel saddle but I never liked them for many hour s in a single ride. I cowboyed for a short while in a team roping(quality one) it about crippled me.


This, oh-so-much this. I grew up riding in top quality roping saddles. I never realized that pain _wasn't_ supposed to be a part of riding until I got my ranch saddle. Used to, I'd spend 8 hours in the saddle and get off walking like a crippled crab because my knees and hips hurt so dang bad. I figured it had to be something wrong with _me _because my Dad never seemed to hurt that bad and he was riding the same style of saddle that I was.

Then, I got my new one and after the first long ride when I stepped off feeling just as good as I did when I stepped on, it was a complete revelation. "So _*this *_is what I'm supposed to feel like after a long ride! I never knew!" LOL


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

smrobs said:


> This is all true, but I don't think the OP mentioned anything about doing long distance timed speed events. She just said that she would likely spend long hours in the saddle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I had the same feeling with my Wade. and I bet the horse probably has a similar feeling when you pull the saddle off its back too.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

smrobs said:


> Therein lies the conundrum with western saddles though. Those that are built to be light...are _only _built to be light. They aren't built for all-day comfort for the horse or the rider. They aren't built to stand up to the rigors of riding miles and miles every day for years. The materials and workmanship are generally mediocre at best.


If that's the case, though (and again, I don't have enough experience to say), then the fault is with the saddle makers, not with the idea of making lightweight saddles. It's certainly possible, just as a matter of engineering, to build a quality lightweight saddle, and give it the same weight distributing & other comfort qualities as a much heavier western saddle.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

jamesqf said:


> If that's the case, though (and again, I don't have enough experience to say), then the fault is with the saddle makers, not with the idea of making lightweight saddles. It's certainly possible, just as a matter of engineering, to build a quality lightweight saddle, and give it the same weight distributing & other comfort qualities as a much heavier western saddle.


while that is true to a degree there are limitations, and when that is done there is a sacrifice. All the light weight working saddles I have ever seen, which is comparatively few, have trees that are shaved down. Basically, they are the same as a usual wood/rawhide tree but the bars of the tree, the cantle and the fork/swell/pommel and kneepads (in the event that its an Australian saddle) are all quite a bit thinner than what is standard. 

Take the example of the charro saddle I build a few years ago. the tree is really quite heavy, it has standard bars but the cantle and fork are unusually high (particularly for a wade tree) this increases the amount of thickness the cantle especially had to have because, as the tree maker told me, to have a 6 inch cantle with hand holds it needed to be a bit thicker to make up for the loss of structural integrity with a big hand hold in each side of the cantle. I built the saddle with rather small round skirts and it has no seat built in it at all, its still kinda heavy for what it looks like, mainly because of the tree. Had I build a full saddle with square skirts it would have weighed a ton. So with the round skirts and no seat (you just sit on the tree) it still has the same weight distribution as a full western saddle though it is a bit lighter. Likewise, on a smaller lighter tree that has the wood shaved thinner to reduce weight the trade off is in strength. The weight distribution will be the same as normal, the saddle will be lighter, but it wont be as strong.

So sure, you can, make a work saddle lighter by cutting the tree, I have seen a few half breed saddles like that (they are usually marketed as camp-drafting saddles), I have seen some cutting saddles like that, but anything you would be likely to rope in I doubt it, I doubt the tree would hold up under heavy roping. 

If you start getting into the materials, nylon trees, fiberglass trees, light weight leather (thinner) or synthetics, then I doubt its possible really. they just don't stand up to the punishment that a wood/rawhide tree and leather saddle on it will.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If weight didn't have an effect on a horse they wouldn't use it to Handicap racehorses to 'even the odds'
A 40lb saddle would be equal to a third of my weight - my little pinto moves a lot more freely and happily with my weight than she does with my husbands which is where I'd be up to if I used a heavy saddle on her


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

jaydee said:


> If weight didn't have an effect on a horse they wouldn't use it to Handicap racehorses to 'even the odds'...


For speed events, you are correct. If you want a horse to run its fastest or jump its highest, then getting weight as small as possible, and getting it off the back, works well. 

A lot of serious joggers, those who compete, own 'race shoes' - extra light shoes they use for racing. Me? I use a fat, heavy shoe with lots of cushioning, because I prefer to protect my feet (and knees, and back). I'm not fast, I'm not competing, and my goal is to be able to jog day after day for years.

The reason folks don't build a saddle with titanium and carbon fiber is because it would be very expensive and have no measurable improvement for the horse. You shaved 2 lbs off the saddle weight? Good - I'll take 2 quarts of water with me and add 4 lbs! Maybe I'll add my .357...that is 3 lbs without the holster. What about a pulling collar or breastplate? Oops, there are a few more pounds for those that use them!

When dealing with a 1000 lb animal, 10 lbs just doesn't mean much. If my horse had such bad conformation that I worried about an extra 10 or 20 lbs, I wouldn't ride her at all. Trooper is our 850 lb gelding, which is lighter than most horses. He used to work 8-12 hour days with a 200 lb guy on his back in a 30-40 lb saddle.

And why try to shave off 10 lbs from the saddle when a great many of us could afford to shave 10 lbs or more off of ourselves?  Before I hurt my back in 2009, when I was running 5 miles/day, I was 160, not 175-180. Why use a carbon fiber tree to save 5 lbs when I'm carrying at least 15 extra within 12 inches of my belly button? 

There is nothing wrong with a light English saddle or an Abetta. They work fine for many people and horses. But if you choose to use a 40 lb work saddle, it won't break your horse - not if it fits. Choose a saddle that fits your riding goals, that fits you, and that fits your horse.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Yep agreed...plus saddle bags....lunch, I carry a 19" fiskers saw and scabbard....add another 10 pounds for a rifle and scabbard....

I guess everyone has there own opinion....as I never expected to see so many responses to this thread.....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Not just for racing bsms - my pinto keeps the pace a lot better on the trails with me on her than she would with my son or my husband which is why they prefer to not ride her
Think of it from a human point of view - would you rather walk 20 miles carrying a 2lb rucksack or a 10lb one? My DH has recently lost close to 40lb in weight and the difference its made to how he feels and his joints that were always aching are no longer a trouble to him is amazing


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> The reason folks don't build a saddle with titanium and carbon fiber is because it would be very expensive and have no measurable improvement for the horse.


Yet I see that people offer quite expensive ($10K and more) saddles for sale, which have lots of fancy decoration that serves no useful purpose, and adds considerable weight. Are titanium and carbon fiber really more expensive than silver and hand-tooled leather?



> You shaved 2 lbs off the saddle weight? Good - I'll take 2 quarts of water with me and add 4 lbs! Maybe I'll add my .357...that is 3 lbs without the holster. What about a pulling collar or breastplate? Oops, there are a few more pounds for those that use them!


But you've still got less total weight with the lighter saddle. And if you apply the same thinking to all your equipment - do I really need this? Is it the lightest practical alternative? - then you are likely to wind up carrying a good bit less weight. And where do you draw the line? If your horse (or you, backpacking) can carry 10 lbs extra, why not 20? Indeed, why not 50 or 100, or more?



> And why try to shave off 10 lbs from the saddle when a great many of us could afford to shave 10 lbs or more off of ourselves?


Why indeed? But I've found that people tend to get upset when I suggest that 

Indeed, why not do both, and carry 20 lbs less?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The point is that 10-20 lbs is negligible to a 1000 lb horse. It is 1-2% of the horse's weight. Even a 20 lb difference, when combined with a 160 lb rider is only the difference of a total weight of 170 vs 190. If 190 lbs will shorten your horse's lifespan, then riding at 170 is probably too much as well. Get a stronger horse.

It also is not a good idea to compare riding between riders. Trooper moves better with my 175 lbs than with my DIL's 100 lbs. That doesn't mean he likes carrying an extra 75 lbs. It just means I ride a lot more often than my DIL, and it shows.

But when the weight is in the saddle, it is a perfectly balanced weight, draped around the horse. In the case of a western saddle, it is typically distributing the weight over a larger area. 240 lbs total in a western saddle creates the same PSI on the horse as 160 lbs in a typical English saddle. I say typical, because the tree of my lightweight Abetta western saddle distributes weight over the same area as my English saddle...which gets back to why light in a western saddle may not be the best option.

With the Martin saddle, which doesn't fit Mia properly (too wide), she will cheerfully do an extended sitting trot under me for a mile or more, and then canter for the fun of it. With my Australian or English saddles, she'll shift into a jog within 30 yards unless I either push her or post. She seems less interested in a few pounds total weight than in how much pressure per inch is on her back.

If someone is riding at 30% of their horse's bodyweight, then shaving pounds is probably a good idea. But at 25% and below, saddle fit and weight distribution is more important than 5-20 lbs...unless the horse needs total freedom in his back. For racing, jumping, etc, a saddle designed for a specific motion is probably more important.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> ...If your horse (or you, backpacking) can carry 10 lbs extra, why not 20? Indeed, why not 50 or 100, or more?
> 
> Why indeed? But I've found that people tend to get upset when I suggest that
> 
> Indeed, why not do both, and carry 20 lbs less?


Where you draw the line depends on what you do with your horse and how the horse responds. In a horse race, 5 lbs is significant and jockeys don't ride in the saddle. But just like I don't compete when I run, I do not when I ride.

There are super light bicycles, and racers love them. I'm happy with an old Schwinn that weighs as much as a small car, because..I'm not racing. I just want to get out and get some exercise. 3 speeds is fine for me. 18 speeds are wasted on me.

Lilly was our lightest horse that I've ridden regularly. She was around 775. I rode her in a Circle Y, and the total weight would have been around 200-210. If it bothered Lilly, she hid it well. Mia is our biggest horse, but 900 lbs isn't exactly huge. As I said, she acts happier in my western saddle than in my Australian or English saddles - as in more eager, more willing to do a fast trot, happy when I sit instead of post, etc.

Cowboy is our smallest horse - 13 hands and probably no more than 700 lbs, and maybe less. He has a thick back and thick legs, and doesn't complain about my weight...but I can feel him compensating for my weight in turns and I will tire him out if I ride him for 90 minutes. In his case, I don't think saving 10 lbs in my saddle will do much good...I'm just too big to be his regular rider. I could probably work him up to carrying me, but we would always need to think about speed, duration, etc.

As for losing weight: I gained 20 lbs when I was injured just after I started riding. After 5 years, I've been able to start jogging again, and I've lost a little weight. But at 56, my body just doesn't respond like it did when I was 20 or 30, and losing 20 lbs looks like a tough challenge. If I thought I was that close to the edge of my horse's capability, I'd think about another horse.

In the end, I think listening to your horse is a big part of what distinguishes a horseman from a rider. When you care more about your horse than your sport, you watch how your horse responds and act accordingly. In Mia's case, I'd like to find a western saddle that fits her...but unhappily, my budget doesn't include buying a $1500-2000 saddle right now. Maybe if I sell some of the ones I have...hmmmm...to a tackaholic, that is darn near heresy! :wink: But a big part of why I ride is the pleasure I take in her company. Sounds weird, I guess, but I like her and want her to be happy and comfortable. So I may have to bite the bullet and sell some saddles.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

bsms said:


> But a big part of why I ride is the pleasure I take in her company. Sounds weird, I guess, but I like her and want her to be happy and comfortable. So I may have to bite the bullet and sell some saddles.



Exactly bsms.....me too....I want Miss Lacy to enjoy the ride just as much as I do......I luv's my horsey.....


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I need to clarify something.
After loading my pickup by hand a pallet of 50# bags of cow mineral yesterday, I am going to say my saddle does not weigh 50#! LOL!
I have never weighed my saddle and was making a guess thinking it was heavy, not so much. I am now going to guess it weighs closer to 40#?
Doesn't change how I feel about heavier saddles but I feel the need to come clean about the weight.

Idrivetrotters, I am not trying to convince you or anyone else that they need a heavy saddle. I am basing my advice on my personal experience, and I have none with endurance. I believe Blue Spark starts and trains a few horses along with wanting to trail ride. I figured a good ranch saddle could easily meet both those needs for her. I don't think she said she planned on competing in endurance but had experience with the sport.
I have a rough idea how many miles a day I do 'annoying cattle' (not sure how you meant that but I like it and going to use the term, LOL) and I don't know how my miles/speed compare to an endurance rider. I did try to use an app on my phone but unfortunately due to very poor phone service my phone dies or doesn't record all of my miles/speed. So I have been curious how our days out here compare even before this topic appeared. I had asked on the trail riding logging miles type thread what people here use and want to buy a device just for S & G's to find out 






jamesqf said:


> Yet I see that people offer quite expensive ($10K and more) saddles for sale, which have lots of fancy decoration that serves no useful purpose, and adds considerable weight. Are titanium and carbon fiber really more expensive than silver and hand-tooled leather?


Tooled leather does not add any more weight than non-tooled or rough-out leather obviously. And finely engraved silver doesn't add enough weight either to make a difference but the cowboy crowd might be a tough bunch to convince that titanium is a better material just out of sheer tradition. If you engrave the titanium and make it shine you might have a market 
Joking aside, there is a reason why the same saddles and same trees have been used for years. Because they work and proven to stand the test of time regardless of the weight. If the weight truly was a factor then I think cowboying saddles would have evolved already, in my humble opinion.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Agreed, I'm not trying to say that having or using lighter saddles is necessarily a bad thing....it's just that lightweight _western_ saddles generally lack in quality, comfort, and durability.

Not only that, but I seem to recall the OP mentioned ponying some horses (maybe I'm thinking of someone else though). For ponying, you really need a saddle to hold up to roping/dragging. Even if you don't need that, if you're riding off of well groomed trails, there may come a time when you need to drag a log or a downed tree out of your path.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Walks in, looks around...Mmmmmm

Buy a saddle that fits you and the horse as well as possible.

Buy and older well made saddle as opposed to cheap cardboard junk.

Buy a saddle that works for the discipline you intend to ride in.

Did I mention it fitting both of you?


*Shakes head* different horses for different courses, and a thought on saddle weight.

Remember Appy Gilmore? Well I started riding him Western, converted to English, rode him English for a while, and he was great. Then came a show where he wouldn't stand still and was angry with him for being an idiot. Second day of the show we were doing freestyle dressage and I had chosen a western song, so I thought I would do it in out western tack, and he stood like an angel all day.

A good friend kindly pointed out that where I had gained so much weight he was shifting about under my English saddle because of my weight and it was making him uncomfortable. The western saddle was still comfortable because it spread the load over a wider area. LOL girls who are well endowed know that thin pretty bra straps hurt your shoulders, bigger well made bras with wide straps means you can be comfortable all day.

That was the day I quit worrying about my western saddle. I now ride 100% western again, for many reasons, and I sometimes curse that saddle, but I believe that a well fitted 30 pound western saddle maybe an easier carry than a 15 pound English one.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> The point is that 10-20 lbs is negligible to a 1000 lb horse. It is 1-2% of the horse's weight.


So by that logic, an extra 2-4 lbs in a backpack carried by a (round numbers) 200 lb guy should be negligible. But in my experience, at the end of a long day it's not negligible at all.



> If 190 lbs will shorten your horse's lifespan, then riding at 170 is probably too much as well. Get a stronger horse.
> 
> 
> > Who said anything about shortening lifespan, of either horse or human? As you say, it's about comfort & making the ride/hike more enjoyable.
> ...


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## tman33 (Jul 4, 2011)

20-25 extra pounds on a in shape horse should not make any difference. It is more than that when you add in saddle bags, ice, drinks and food. I have a 20 year old (this April) gelding. Someone in our group rides him almost every ride. Keeping a horse rode and in shape will make all the difference in the world. As far as the saddle itself as a general rule the heavier they are the better they are made and the better they ride. I have seen and rode many Mexican made saddles in the past , when I was much younger, they would never hold up and were never comfortable. I have a buddy that has a Amish made saddle that is around 20 years old , minus the scratches, looks new and rides like a dream. The point being spend as much as you can afford and take care of what you buy and you want be buying a new saddle every five years, and this is coming form a saddle maker. Unless you are a true cowboy who rides for hours every day this should hold true. Just my 2 cents.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_So by that logic, an extra 2-4 lbs in a backpack carried by a (round numbers) 200 lb guy should be negligible. But in my experience, at the end of a long day it's not negligible at all._"

I'm not a backpacker. I have worn 75-100 lbs of gear in Afghanistan all day, and I don't recall the Army doing a whole lot to save us 2 lbs. At 49 years old, doing that beat me down pretty hard, but the 25 year old guys didn't have a problem. Certainly none of us left water or ammo behind to save some weight! In fairness, my SIL did 2 tours in Marine infantry in Iraq, and is now an inch shorter than when he enlisted...but he was carrying a lot more than 75 lbs!

"_Who said anything about shortening lifespan, of either horse or human?_"

One of the other posters: "I'd be concerned with long term soundness on my horse".

"_ Use lighter but stronger materials to build a lightweight saddle with the same good weight distribution as your western saddle._"

One of the reasons fiberglass wrapped wood has replaced bullhide wrapped wood, IIRC, is both cost and a combination of strength and lightness. However, if you have noticed, it has been the experience of much of the western world of riding that a few pounds are not critical. The ranch saddles I see advertised run around 40-42 lbs, while my Aussie-style saddle with stirrups runs around 25. Worrying about 3 pounds in a saddle just doesn't match the experience of most western riders. It would, of course, matter for jumping & racing.

Where I live, heat & the lack of water are vastly harder on the horse than 15 lbs of weight. Conditioning a horse to carry an extra 15 lbs on a trail ride is trivial. One cannot condition them to heat or no water. I've seen no sign that any of my horses care if it is my 180 lbs mounting up or my youngest daughter's 120 lbs. There are just too many other things that seem to affect them more than that 60 lb difference...and my biggest horse is only 900 lbs!


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> I seem to recall the OP mentioned ponying some horses (maybe I'm thinking of someone else though).


 that's me. Its not a deal breaker if I have no horn, but it would be really handy when it comes to ponying things.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's the way I feel too. Maybe it's because of the type of horses I'm used to handling, but I can't imagine ponying anything _without_ a horn LOL. I get a bit jealous of folks who get to train all those nice mellow horses:wink:. IMHO, in the instance that something happens and the horse that is being ponied decides that they need to get away, I like to have something to dally to. Sure beats a horse burning the crap out of my hand and ending up running free and possibly getting into traffic or into a fence.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> I'm not a backpacker. I have worn 75-100 lbs of gear in Afghanistan all day, and I don't recall the Army doing a whole lot to save us 2 lbs.


You do realize this is the military you're talking about? The folks who do a lot of their basic training under the assumption that you're going to be part of a line of pikemen facing a charge of mounted knights?



> Certainly none of us left water or ammo behind to save some weight!


Maybe I'm dating myself, but there was quite a difference between toting an M-14 and its ammo, and the M-16 and the same number of rounds.



> Where I live, heat & the lack of water are vastly harder on the horse than 15 lbs of weight.


But they're not really related, unless of course you have to carry water for the horse.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"But they're not really related, unless of course you have to carry water for the horse."

I think they are related. There are many things that cause stress for a horse. Total weight is one, but an extra 10-15 lbs of total weight seems to be a very minor factor for my horses. Other things - saddle fit, weight distribution, rider skill, speed, distance, terrain, water, heat, sunlight intensity - seem to affect my horses far more. If I pushed my horses to their maximum performance, then tweaking every variable would matter...but I always leave my horses with ample reserve. They may be ready for water, food or shade at the end of the ride, but I've never seen any sign my daughter's horse handled the ride better than mine, although I outweigh her by 60 lbs.

Conditioning my then 165 lbs to carry 100 lbs of gear was a big challenge, only in part due to age. Conditioning a 900 lb horse to carry an extra 10 lbs is trivial. Just do it.

For significant weight changes, the horses adjust in a variety of ways, including stride length, frequency, how many milliseconds each hoof is on the ground, etc."In this phase of the study, seven Arabian geldings and mares were trained to walk and trot along a level fence line in response to voice commands. They were timed as they walked and trotted the distance unburdened as well as with a saddle weighted with lead shot. The saddle and lead together weighed 85 kilograms (about 187 pounds), which amounted to about 19 percent of the horses' body weights. Not surprisingly, the additional weight caused horses to move more slowly, reducing speed from about 7.4 mph to about 7 mph. "Not only does their metabolic rate go up, but their preferred speed goes down," Wickler says, adding that the most important finding was that the horses' preferred speed was the most economical in terms of moving a given distance with that added weight...

... the Cal State researchers trotted five Arabians at a consistent speed on a treadmill under three different conditions: on the level with no load, on a 10 percent incline with no load, and on the level while carrying a saddle and weights that totaled about 19 percent of their body mass. To record the motion and speed of the horses' foot movements, an accelerometer was attached to the right hind hoof, and the sessions were recorded with a high-speed video camera. Carrying a load caused the horses to leave their feet on the ground an average of 7.7 percent longer than they did while trotting unburdened. On the level, the addition of a load caused the swing phase of the stride to become 3 percent shorter, but going uphill this phase of stride lasted 6 percent longer.

In short, explains Wickler, carrying a load causes a horse to shorten his stride, leave his feet on the ground longer and increase the distance his body travels (the "step length") with each stride. All of these gait adjustments work together to reduce the forces placed on the legs with each step."​How Much Weight Can Your Horse Safely Carry?

Notice these are changes resulting from going from no load to 19% of body weight. Does a 1% change in load affect the horse's stride, etc? Well, a 19% load required photography and analysis to determine the effect. I'm thinking a 1% change would be too small for a human rider to notice.

However, I doubt I'm the only one who has seen a horse hurt by a saddle that didn't fit, and I notice Mia is more reluctant to do anything with a lot of up & down motion with my Australian saddle than my western one. It really comes down to how far into your horse's reserves you are willing to push. For any type of racing, or for sport jumping, you want to push your horse to a maximum effort. For trail riding, most of us do not want our horse to finish with barely enough reserve left to stand.

Thus, if an extra 10 lbs will affect your horse, either lose the weight or get a stronger horse. Otherwise, concentrate on fit, weight distribution, balance, giving the horse rest stops & drinks, etc. But there is no need to design a $4000 carbon fiber saddle to save 3 lbs of weight off of a wooden tree. I could probably save the money and accept my horse going 6.95 mph instead of 7mph, and call it equal. :wink:


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> "But they're not really related, unless of course you have to carry water for the horse."
> 
> I think they are related. There are many things that cause stress for a horse. Total weight is one...


What I meant is that you can change one without affecting the other. That is, if your horse is conditioned, s/he's conditioned whether you're using a 10 lb saddle or a 50 lb one.



> ...but an extra 10-15 lbs of total weight seems to be a very minor factor for my horses. Other things - saddle fit, weight distribution, rider skill, speed, distance, terrain, water, heat, sunlight intensity - seem to affect my horses far more.


Sure, and I can try to optimize each one of those factors independently. "Many a mickle makes a muckle", as the saying goes.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^If you can figure out how to shave 10-15 lbs off a ranch saddle without affecting longevity, performance, or price, then please get into the saddle making business and become fabulously rich.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

bsms said:


> ^^If you can figure out how to shave 10-15 lbs off a ranch saddle without affecting longevity, performance, or price, then please get into the saddle making business and become fabulously rich.


Don't forget the most important feature.....comfort! 

While you're at it....do the same for my pistol...that Smith & Wesson 340pd in a 12 ounce .357 magnum sure stings my hand a whole lot more than that 2 pound vaquero.....I'd love to get the same comfort out of it as I do the vaquero...


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

gunslinger said:


> ...that Smith & Wesson 340pd in a 12 ounce .357 magnum sure stings my hand a whole lot more than that 2 pound vaquero.....I'd love to get the same comfort out of it as I do the vaquero...


Hogue Tamer monogrip


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

gunslinger said:


> While you're at it....do the same for my pistol...that Smith & Wesson 340pd in a 12 ounce .357 magnum sure stings my hand a whole lot more than that 2 pound vaquero.....I'd love to get the same comfort out of it as I do the vaquero...


Not my area of expertise, but I though Glock and similar had already done that, by making most of the pistol out of lightweight composites.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

You can make a gun out of lightweight composites, but that doesn't make it more comfortable to shoot. I've got a 19 oz S&W 649, and shooting full power 357 loads from it stings. By about 20 rounds, I'm starting to flinch. But for concealed carry purposes, I doubt I'll ever shoot 20+ rounds out of it except at the range. With the current price of ammo, I'm not sure I can afford to shoot over 20 rounds anyways...:evil:

I also have a 357 Blackhawk. 46 ounces. Shooting it is like shooting a 22. I could buy a good saddle for the price of the 357 ammo it would take to make me flinch with the Blackhawk!

I saw some measurements on a lightweight ralide tree yesterday. It's total load bearing surface was comparable to a child's saddle with a regular wooden tree. That was saving weight at the horse's expense.

OTOH, switching from leather to cordura will lighten the saddle. Some like the feel of Cordura. I prefer leather. I want a slicker seat, and I want my stirrup leathers to 'turn'. I hate searching for the stirrup with my Abetta saddle. If I can save 10 lbs by switching to Cordura, no thanks. My horse can get used to carrying an extra 10 lbs. We'll just trot 0.05 mph slower to compensate. I won't notice. Or maybe at the end of the ride, my horse will feel 1% more tired. Oh well. I'll rub her down, give her water, give her feed and shade, and she'll be ready to go the next day. Maybe give her an oatmeal energy bar...she'll gladly do an extra 1% of work for a couple of those!


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> You can make a gun out of lightweight composites, but that doesn't make it more comfortable to shoot. I've got a 19 oz S&W 649, and shooting full power 357 loads from it stings. By about 20 rounds, I'm starting to flinch. But for concealed carry purposes, I doubt I'll ever shoot 20+ rounds out of it except at the range. With the current price of ammo, I'm not sure I can afford to shoot over 20 rounds anyways...:evil:


Yeah, I was going to mention that. Unless your life is much more eventful than mine has been, you'll spend a heck of a lot more time toting it around than you do shooting.



> OTOH, switching from leather to cordura will lighten the saddle. Some like the feel of Cordura. I prefer leather. I want a slicker seat, and I want my stirrup leathers to 'turn'. I hate searching for the stirrup with my Abetta saddle. If I can save 10 lbs by switching to Cordura, no thanks.


That's the weight saving by compromising function thing again. 

Personally, I like Cordura better than leather, at least in the seat. I've been riding in my friend's leather saddle (Fabtron, I think) this spring, since I've been riding her horse. Even though it's quite similar in style to my Abetta, and the same size, it's much less comfortable for me. Agree about the stirrups though: on both saddles, it just feels like they're mounted at right angles to what they should be.



> Maybe give her an oatmeal energy bar...she'll gladly do an extra 1% of work for a couple of those!


Or some of my homemade fruit leather. Amazing how energetic the horses become when I haul some of that out on breaks


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