# LAZY, DEAD SIDED Pleasure Horse. HELP!!



## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Over and under her with a rein or carry a crop. I never use spurs for forward work. 

I always teach my horses a verbal precue so they know that I am about to ask for a lope. This always starts with longe line work and translates really well for the undersaddle work. Will she lope on a longe line?

You can also get off the circle and try to lope on straight lines out in a field, too. She may not have the balance and coordination yet to lope with a rider on circles.


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## hennisntacanibal (Oct 5, 2011)

I'd definitely suggest a crop as well. It's really hard for them to ignore a good snap from one, and usually they only need to see it to behave better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

I'll be sure to try some longe work with her. She's got the training and the ability to lope in the western pleasure style, and our arena has long sides so she gets two straightaways. I was also thinking about carrying a crop with me next time to tap her the hip. Thanks!! Maybe a change in scenery may help her too.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

other than equipment (crop/overunder/spur or whatever), ride straight lines, and don't stop the horse or let the horse stop unless you've been traveling a straight line.

if you have an arena or something similar try riding to a corner and stopping in the corner. turn and go to the next corner then stop in the corner again, and repeat many times.

horses are inherently lazy animals, but they are determined too find that laziness. frequently stopping while riding a straight line teaches them that "laziness" is in *front* of them. so it's an effective way of getting a horse to willingly travel forward.


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

I've never heard of that, but it sounds like it will be effective on this particular horse. I'll give that a try the next time I can get on her! Thanks!


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

Also - would changing bits get more control/discipline? She rides in a simple snaffle. She steers poorly in it and though she gives her head but not easily.


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## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

At 3 1/2 I think she should stay in a snaffle. In any case she needs to learn to give and steer in a snaffle before moving to a different bit.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

i'd work on getting her nice and forward first. for safeties sake she has to have some idea of steering but it doesn't have to be very good yet, so work on that after she's a bit more motivated.


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks for the advice! I will wait on graduating her to a different bit or suggesting it to her owners until she's moving forward willingly and easily  keep the tips and tricks coming! I love to hear them!


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I am not a western rider, so I don't have much advise about that but I would be concerned that she is so young and has little interest in working. 

If I were her owner I would stop doing that type of work entirely and make riding fun again for her. Take her out on trail rides, or with another horse and rider for a good gallop. Once she is enjoying herself again, I would slowly reintroduce the work you want her to be doing. And finally I would ditch the trainer who has been working her.


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

I agree. I'm not a fan of the trainer, but I think the owner is starting to see just how hard he is riding her/pushing her. I'll definitely suggest a change in scenery for her to the owner. Maybe I can take her and them on a trail ride or some rides through the field and switch up her routine to get her mind back where it should be. For three and a half she should be at least enjoying her work!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

christopher said:


> if you have an arena or something similar try riding to a corner and stopping in the corner. turn and go to the next corner then stop in the corner again, and repeat many times.
> 
> horses are inherently lazy animals, but they are determined too find that laziness. frequently stopping while riding a straight line teaches them that "laziness" is in *front* of them. so it's an effective way of getting a horse to willingly travel forward.


 
This is an interesting idea; that if she knows that she keeps up the lope to a set place, she will find a rest there. H m m m. 

another idea is to take her out of the arena , onto a trail if you can, put another horse in front and go for a good brisk gallop. Wake her up. Then have her in front and see if she'll canter under those circumstances.

My friend's arab is very lazy in the arena, but on the trail, that boy can run!


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

another way of saying it would be if the horse travels a set distance then gets to stop, consistently, then obviously the horse will want to cover that distance as quickly as possible, because it'd get too stop sooner.

happens a lot with racehorses who *seem* to just want to get faster all the time. truth is they really want to stop, they've just learned that going a long way away and getting there quickly will allow them to stop. also happens a lot in reining when a horse begins to anticipate the slide stop at the end of the arena, so the horse accelerates much too fast in the rundown because obviously the faster they get there the sooner they get to stop and be lazy.

not sure why people don't use thinking like that for lazy horses rather than just resorting too big(ger) spurs or whips.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

At 3 she is still growing and may be having trouble balancing with the weight of a rider. Balance is easier at the walk and trot. She may also not be understanding what is being asked. Kicking can lead to balkiness and dull sides. If you opt to use a crop, be sure to ask for a canter first with your seat and leg, then tap her rib behind your leg to reinforce your leg. Tapping her on the hip may produce explosive bucking (instinct). Always use the lightest tap and gradually increase. If she lopes or canters on a couple of steps and breaks into a trot don't get after her. Just repeat your request. It helps the horse if initially you always ask at the same spot.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Is the arena soft? If it is hard young horse do not like to canter on it


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## Alicia (Mar 21, 2009)

Everyone's giving you great advice 
I would work on lunging or round pen with her until she gets up into a lope on the verbal cue quickly everytime. I'm working with a 3 yr old 17hh Percheron/Canadian gelding who doesn't like to move quickly either (I don't do much lopeing because of his size and age) but he's learned to get into the trott at my verbal cue and is getting into the lope a little cleaner with verbal cues as well - all due to lunging and roundpen work.


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## hennisntacanibal (Oct 5, 2011)

Another thing: do you ride with a loose rein? If your reins have no belly in them and she has a sensitive mouth that could be a reason she doesn't want to canter.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

When you do rider her with a crop. Make sure you carry it on the OUTSIDE. You what that hip in, popping her on the butt on the inside with cause her to swing her butt out. Also be sure to use a verbal command when you do get after her. So next time she associates the cue with the crop, she will move forward more willingly.


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

To answer some questions posed here :

#1) yes the arena is soft. It's used for reining and western pleasure, so its kept very well and watered/dragged every few days.

#2) I rode her on a loose rein so she could have her head.

#3) she's a fairly big 3 year old, however I would like to see her put on more weight. She could gain maybe 50lbs of muscle.

#4) even when turned outside near other horses she doesn't show interest in playing or speed. 

Tue trail idea is a good one, as is doing more longe work and carrying a crop instead of using spurs all the time.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Once you get her loping. Kick kick kick kick. Get her moving. She isnt going to learn to forward motion by not having any.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

You might try the crop or quirt which are similiar. You might also try the nub English spur. I have with past experience learned that no two horses will respond with like kind training techniques. Each horse is an individual in it's own right and needs a training signature suited to each one's traits and personality. However, speaking in general terms all training is one and the same per individual horse.


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## Val1991 (Aug 26, 2011)

Clinton anderson's passanger lessons are great for horses like this. We had some bums at the barn I volunteered at and it really did wonders. It also breaks them of the habit of wanting to stop at the gate.

Lazy horses are my favorites to work with. They're lazy and sometimes pushy yes, but the plus side off their hard headedness is that not only does pressure (squeezing, clicking, kicking) not affect them as much, but neither does scarry objects. They learn to relax in new situations alot easier, and they're good problem solvers, which is why it's always good to mix up their schedule on a regular basis, or else they'll use the routine against you ( "ahem, miss, yes you with the reins, you do realize that at the end of our cantering sessions we are supposed back up five steps and then break for lunch, right? That's how it always happens around here, silly girl, and I don't want to be late. Here, maybe you understand the cro-hopping, pinned ears and tail swishing.... )

So anyways, the passanger lessons are simple. Squeeze (gently), cluck, spank. 
The squeeze is our signal, the cluck is our warning, and the spank is our reprimand. I never kick horses anymore. Not because I think it's cruel and that people who kick precious horses are terrible people, lol, but because I find it less effective. Not only does it effect our seat, but it causes the horse to be tensein the shoulders and midsection. Kinda cuts through the flow of things. 

So squeeze (gently), cluck, and spank (on the shoulder or bum depending on where your horse reacts better, and preferably with something that makes a slapping noise. The point is not to beat them into it, but instead bug the heck out of them until they give to the pressure, and maybe give them a little sting of shame.) as soon as they break into a canter, reward by releasing all aspects of pressure. 

The other aspect of this exercise, is to do it on a loose rein and let the horse go wherever it wants. This is what cures the stickiness at certain areas of the arena. If the horse wants to be at the gate, fine. But it will offer no rest to its weary soul. If they want to canter circles at the gate, fine, let them, and as soon as they break away from the gate, let them rest. This will teach the horse to be responsible for its own feet and stay at its cruise setting. And don't nag. If the horse feels like it's going to break to a trot, let them, and -then- correct them for it. Let them commit to the mistake. Eventually your horse will learn that the only release of pressure it will receive will be when it's going the desired speed. And then all is happy with the world.

This exercise is also great for horses who want to go too fast. Most horses go fast because they believe that the faster they go, the quicker they'll be done. Make their idea turn against them. "Want to canter a blazin hundred miles an hour? fine, I can do this all day. And I will! Boy, my horse has great ideas!" Canter them until they don't want to canter anymore and then canter them some more. After a few days of that, your horse will start to pace itself. "Gee, going fast isn't such a good idea, because who knows how long I could be doing this for?" 

This method worked great for a lazy girl I used to work with. She went from a circle of teeth jarring trotting followed by a blast off canter to cantering gently off a gentle squeeze, maintaining pace, and gained a -much- slower canter. She also lost interest in the gate and stopped getting stuck in the middle of the arena. Once she no longer had an agenda, she was more responsive and stayed more attentive. She also got some pretty little muscles!


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

.Delete. said:


> Once you get her loping. Kick kick kick kick. Get her moving. She isnt going to learn to forward motion by not having any.


This is the method I used the first time I rode her - but no matter the amount of kicking (with calves or bumping with spurs) she would stil dead stop, break down or back herself into a corner. But after about fifteen minutes of the insecent "bugging" with the spurs and my legs, I managed to get her around about 95% of the arena without her even thinking about stopping.


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

Val1991 said:


> Clinton anderson's passanger lessons are great for horses like this. We had some bums at the barn I volunteered at and it really did wonders. It also breaks them of the habit of wanting to stop at the gate.
> 
> So anyways, the passanger lessons are simple. Squeeze (gently), cluck, spank.
> The squeeze is our signal, the cluck is our warning, and the spank is our reprimand. I never kick horses anymore. Not because I think it's cruel and that people who kick precious horses are terrible people, lol, but because I find it less effective. Not only does it effect our seat, but it causes the horse to be tensein the shoulders and midsection. Kinda cuts through the flow of things.
> ...


This is an excellent idea. I think I'll suggest to the owners, tomorrow or Saturday, that after taking her on a little trail ride/change of scenery (we have a nicely kept little trail system on the property that's perfect to get her switched up in her routine) to try some of these methods. I think I'll combine some of Clinton's methods with some ground respect and longeing work. Or at least teach the owners how to do most of it if they want to get involved! I think she'll benefit from a mixed up schedule - instead of knowing everytime she comes in from her private paddock or gets out of her stall she's getting ridden. If all else fails - maybe some time off in one of our large pastures with a group of horses will do her good mentally? (I realize it could make her hard to catch/unwanting to work or a number of things, but she acts like a robot - like she doesn't even know what it means to be a horse!)

Funny you should mention Clinton Anderson - I worked last summer at a ranch in Southeast Wisconsin where he started holding clinics/developing his system and learned from the people there most of his stuff! I think he's got exellent methods. I'll definately be looking back into them to try on this horse.


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## Val1991 (Aug 26, 2011)

Sounds great! I own alot of clintons dvds and use alot of his techniques, but I also study other trainers as well. It gives me an arsonal to work from. 

And about the catching her and all...

horses don't become hard to catch because we don't catch them enough or they get used to being lazy. They become hard to catch because every time we catch them they have to work or do something unpleasant. 

On the days that you/the owners don't work her, they should go out and catch her anyways, and then do something pleasant. Every once in a while I bring a carrot with me when I catch my horse, but more oft than that I bring a rubber curry and scrub all his sweet spots. I'll even make it look like he has to work by haltering him when I catch him, but I just pamper him and then let him go. I have a crazy schedule, which sometimes means my horse will go a week/2 weeks without getting worked, but when I go out to the pasture, my horse is running to me, not away from me!


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## Val1991 (Aug 26, 2011)

by the way, hope it works out! keep us posted, I'm excited to hear how she goes!


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

.Delete. said:


> Once you get her loping. Kick kick kick kick. Get her moving. She isnt going to learn to forward motion by not having any.


debatable. if whenever you get the lope you stop and relax, horse will learn that in order to cause the rider to cause the horse to stop and relax, it just has to put effort into loping. and the straighter you lope before you stop, the faster/easier the horse will lope in future because the fastest way from A (where you begin to lope) to B (where you stop loping) is straight.

again, reining horses expressing their anticipation of a stop by speeding up (especially seeing as stopping and speeding up are opposites) proves it.


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

Sahara said:


> Over and under her with a rein or carry a crop. I never use spurs for forward work.
> 
> I always teach my horses a verbal precue so they know that I am about to ask for a lope. This always starts with longe line work and translates really well for the undersaddle work. Will she lope on a longe line?
> 
> You can also get off the circle and try to lope on straight lines out in a field, too. She may not have the balance and coordination yet to lope with a rider on circles.



I would try these tips in the reverse order - at 3 1/2 she may just not have the muscle and balance to be comfortable loping in a circle, and both physically and mentally she may not be ready for 2 days/week intense training. I bet going in straight lines outside of the area will work.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

If a horse is naturally lazy, your darn tootin im going to push the horse forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

im not saying don't push your horse forward. your horse has to understand how to go forward on cue, that's a given. i'm just saying that the way in which you stop your horse has more to do with how "forward" sensitive your horse is than how hard/much you kick.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Val1991 said:


> So anyways, the passanger lessons are simple. Squeeze (gently), cluck, spank.
> The squeeze is our signal, the cluck is our warning, and the spank is our reprimand. I never kick horses anymore. Not because I think it's cruel and that people who kick precious horses are terrible people, lol, but because I find it less effective. Not only does it effect our seat, but it causes the horse to be tensein the shoulders and midsection. Kinda cuts through the flow of things.
> 
> So squeeze (gently), cluck, and spank (on the shoulder or bum depending on where your horse reacts better, and preferably with something that makes a slapping noise. The point is not to beat them into it, but instead bug the heck out of them until they give to the pressure, and maybe give them a little sting of shame.) as soon as they break into a canter, reward by releasing all aspects of pressure.
> ...


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## AshleyCL (Sep 19, 2011)

I am by no means a pro, but my horse has a tendency to slow or stop while in a trot or canter and he was a bit lazy/testy at the start. From some advice on here, I have acquired the habit of cluck, leg pressure, kick, and then some annoying taps with the quirt. After about two weeks of this constant routine, Hank moves at the cluck or leg pressure. The quirt is only used when he is being absolutely ornery. I also found that I have a tendency to tighten up the reigns while at a faster gait, so I've been working on more leg control and keeping my hands completely loose...neck reigning does wonders as well.


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

AshleyCL said:


> I am by no means a pro, but my horse has a tendency to slow or stop while in a trot or canter and he was a bit lazy/testy at the start. From some advice on here, I have acquired the habit of cluck, leg pressure, kick, and then some annoying taps with the quirt. After about two weeks of this constant routine, Hank moves at the cluck or leg pressure. The quirt is only used when he is being absolutely ornery. I also found that I have a tendency to tighten up the reigns while at a faster gait, so I've been working on more leg control and keeping my hands completely loose...neck reigning does wonders as well.


This is my problem, too. I bought a 'night latch' to put on my western saddle (works kind of like a grab/carry strap on an English saddle) and I hook a finger through that to keep my hands still and give me some sense of security so that I can keep the reins looser and my hands light. I know it's cheating but I swear it's helping to make me a better rider and I know for sure it's helping me keep my gelding soft and mentally relaxed.


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