# Help with color questions!!



## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

So, I have two color questions. First is my mare, she is registered as a chestnut roan, but it's almost as if she never fully "roaned" out. She's not sabino or rabicano that I can tell. She has even white hair distribution throughout her body. But nothing below her knees!! And only a little amount of roaning on her face (nothing near the eyes or on the ears.) The second is about my filly. I bred my mare (same one) to a "sooty palomino." My filly came out a little on the pale side, but when she shed her foal coat, her butt, armpits, knees and the inside of her hind legs came in with quite a bit of black (like her sire.) She's almost two now, and has black coming in her mane and tail, a few little black spots, but she has never once shed out like that again. My two questions: Does the sooty gene sometimes show up later? And is there such thing as a minimally expressed roan? (I can not get to the bottom of either questions!) Please help!!
In the photos below, you can kinda see how much roaning my mare has, you can also see how my filly started out, and how she shed her foal coat.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Filly first, as that is easiest. Yes, sooty generally shows up after the foal sheds for the first time. It changes seasonally a lot - some years she might be quite pale, others quite dark. Sooty can do all sorts of fun things.

As for the mare - does she change colour seasonally? Is the white visible all year round?


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Yes my mare changes seasonally. She's a lot darker and more solid in the winter, though you can still see white in her, just not as much. When she sheds out in the spring is when it is most obvious. So, your saying that my filly could shed out sooty at any time in her life? It's not an every year kinda thing? The only horse I know that is sooty is her sire, and he seemed to get darker each year. But I do remember him being light when he was young like she is. Only difference, whenever he got bit or scraped, his foal coat came in solid black in those spots, sort of like a roan.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Yup. Sooty can change lots from year to year, and from season to season. It will be fun to watch her 

I think the mare is indeed a minimal roan.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Wow, thank you for your help! Do you have a lot of experience with the sooty gene? Also, my mare's dam is gray, sire palomino. I know that one of them has to either be a roan or carry the roan gene for her to be a "true roan" correct? If so, how then is it possible she could have so much roaning without having one full roan parent. Also, she is 12 so I know she is not gray, because she would have grayed out by now and she doesn't get lighter each year.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Grey masks all colour so that parent could have been roan. Think of grey like a blanket - the horse has all the genetics to be any colour in the horse world, but the grey covers it up so we can't see it. Without testing, there is usually no way to tell if a greying horse is roan aswell - both grey and roan have similar phases, and grey can look a lot like roan in the early years. Her grey parent could have been roan and no one ever know. 

Add into that, palomino is a really pale colour. It is not unusual for roan to not be picked up on paler colours. The following stallion is tested as roan, which is not the phenotype he presents.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Weird!!! Her dam was 100% arab, so i know she wasn't a roan but a true gray. Her sire is a QH, but he's pretty light, so I guess this could be the case  He also threw one blue roan, not sure what the dam was though. Other then that, he threw pali's and buckskins from what I understand. Thank you!!! Do you know of any other minimally expressed roans you could show me? Other then this stud.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

This is the palomino above's sire, who has to be a roan too.










This is his sire's dam, who also has to be roan.
Pocos Red Jessica Quarter Horse


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

I love that website!!! I was actually just going to get on it and look up my mares sire and see if i can find any roans. So, are you sure the mare had to be roan? Couldn't have been this studs sire?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Olenas King Texas Quarter Horse

That is the original palomino's pedigree. As you can see, the only roan in his pedigree is the granddam's sire.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The buckskin stallion has also sired another roan, a black based one.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Geesh, that is just too weird. My mares sire is Rolex President. he is in that data base. Would you mind looking to see if he might have been able to pass on a roan gene?

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rolex+president


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I am going to go with "definitely possible". The dam's sire's dam is roan, and the dam and the dam's sire are both palomino, so both could be minimal. Given how minimal your mare looks, it could be that she is indeed roan.

However, maybe I should put a disclaimer in here. Red based horses (chestnut etc) are prone to random white hairs. I would not expect them to be seasonal like your mare, or to be as evenly spread all over her, but that doesn't mean it is impossible. I still am leaning toward minimal roan though.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Yay!! lol I've been thinking of getting her tested, do you think it would be worth the money? It's my curiosity that's killing me mostly!! lol Would a minimally expressed roan still show up as a roan? probably huh.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Another question. How do you know the colors of these horses? I know some have pics and some say what color they are, but some don't. Like Sweet Gold, the mare you were talking about. (Maybe I'm looking at the wrong dam) lol


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

SWEET GOLD
b ro XaJNphfDQTVsDyXb 1958
QUARTER HORSE

That tells me her name, her colour, some random number I can make no sense of, her year of birth and her breed.

I also noticed when I had a second look, that the same mare's parent couldn't have produced her if they are those colours lol. Her sire is chestnut and her dam is palomino, but she is either bay, black, blue, brown, buckskin roan (guessing from the B in her listing). All of those colours are black based, so her parents, being both red based, could not have produced her. Just something interesting lol.

ROLEX PRESIDENT
pal 15.3 1990
QUARTER HORSE

Again, you can see the info right here 

This is on the all breed's page.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Ha, i guess i didn't notice the B ro. I knew Rolex's said pali...thats really strange. yeah and sweet baby is out if a black and brown??...oh heck, these horses are so old, back then there might not have been such a thing as registering a roan! who knows lol


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Pretty much lol.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Army Wife... has your mare been HYPP tested?


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Her sire is N/N so there is no way it could be passed on. Good eye though


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Awesome. I couldn't see/find any information in a quick search on him that is why I asked.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

There really isn't much info on him online. Guess he only did a few local shows, probably not much worth mentioning. He sure is beautiful though!! Too bad you can't see him. Do you have an opinion on the colors? lol or experience with HYPP?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I'm pretty much in agreement with what Chiilaa has said. She looks like she is possibly minimal roan to me as well. Her white hair appearance and the seasonal nature of it doesn't sound like the typical white hairs that most red based horses get.  

As for HYPP... No experiences. Had Impressive bred horses, loved them, but was so glad they tested N/N (this was early-mid 90's).


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I have no HYPP experience. I know what it is, the symptoms, that it is genetic, partial dominant (can express with one copy, but usually less severe) and that it originates from Impressive. Other than that - I am in Australia, ride English, and my breed of choice is Arabians lol.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Ha  see the best of both worlds  Yup all that is right. As you can tell, I really try to do my research on my mare. Esp with something as serious as HYPP. Chiilaa, do you know a lot about arab bloodlines? I started a thread asking for help with her arab side, but no help yet! would you be up to it?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Probably not. I am not in touch with bloodlines in Australia, let alone world wide. One day I will be, and I will have a nice Arab of my own. Until then, I work on the degree to pay for the hay lol.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

your a smart girl!! Doing the same thing! trying to finish up school for nursing before the husband gets out of the military!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Nice. I am about 15 months away from being a primary school teacher. I can't wait lol. Until I am working, I can't have a pony according to the hubby. But I know what my graduation present will be lol.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Awesome Chiilaa that you are that close! You're going to make a great teacher.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

You're just saying that because I like to talk a lot


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

:lol: Nah. You have the patience to deal with/work with young children. I don't


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

LOL! Yes, I do have a bit of patience. And I like to talk a lot


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

lol I think you will make a good teacher because you obviously do work on trying to learn new things. You will do awesome!!!


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