# stupid people who don't know they're stupid



## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

Dunning Kruger?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Lol Dunning Kruger is right. 

Best examples of this are the flat earthers!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Thanks guys, that's the one!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

And that is why the state-of-Texas comedian, Ron White always says “you can’t fix stupid”.

He is one of my all time favorites

The “you might be a *******” guy, Jeff Foxworthy, is another favorite
@loosie, is it safe to ask why you bring this up:think::think:


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

Then you have to define stupid. Is it low I.Q. or is it doing something in a different way?
All pot smokers we ever knew thought they were brilliant! 

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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Stupid, to me, is not low IQ, it's lacking commonsense but thinking you are filthy with it.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Incompetence is perhaps a better word. Knowing just enough to think you can get the job done but not actually knowing enough to recognize that you don't know near enough to get the job done.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

To me, stupid is a word used to describe or label an action or decision by someone that is not understood by the observer/labeler.


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

Stupid that thinks they are smart is what gets me.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

walkinthewalk said:


> @loosie, is it safe to ask why you bring this up:think::think:


I was having a convo about certain people and it came up, and I couldn't think of the 'Dunning -Kruger' study that I was sure I heard about here.

To those asking about defining stupid, Google dunning Kruger & read about the lemon juice guy! Another eg is from a cop friend I used to know, who told me of a bank robbery, where the robber went in, stood in line, put on a balaclava... & Kept standing in line, very surprised to hear the cops coming before he even got to the teller. I'd say those are pretty good egs of stupid...


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

He just thought everyone was so stupid they wouldn't notice. Or.......maybe he was hungry and homeless looking for a bed and a meal?


How about the guy that tried to pull an ATM out of the wall and his bumper came off instead. Got shook up and left. His license plate was on his bumper. Oops.


Or the guy that was shooting out cameras when they first started using them to catch speeders. On what became his last, a speeding car came over the hill just as he was aiming, with his own car and license by his side. Oops. He is now manufacturing license plates.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

The reason I ask the definition of stupid is because there are nine types of known intelligences and what one considers stupid another may not, or they may be intelligent in an area(s) the judgemental person is not.
One example is for many years I had a business, I was an electronic technician. To this day I still carry a pocket screwdriver and wire clip lead. My company was next door to a business and one day the owner's brother left in his large dump truck. An hour later I saw the truck being towed back to the business by a huge wrecker service.
Then I hear commotion as another business owner tried pushing dump truck into a garage bay with his tractor, tearing up the asphalt parking lot in the process.
So I walked over asking what happened?
I was told smoke rolled out from under dash, all the wiring had burned up.
"Why don't you just drive it in?" I asked.
Everyone looked at me like I was crazy, guy's brother even cursed me out.
I said I'm just trying to be helpful, I can get it running in less than two minutes.
Owner laughed...said go ahead.
(I need to explain wife and I collect old cars and we both work on them).
I opened hood, jumped ignition, then jumped starter solenoid starting it up.
"Now you can drive it in". I said, which they did.
The one fellow jumped in his car, took off, hasn't spoken to me since.
The owner had to have lot repaved.
Tractor owner had to replace his tires.
The unnecessary tow bill was exorbitant.

The question is...who can I say was stupid?
Does that mean I'm a genius?
Every day I see or hear of people doing "stupid" things. Stupid because that's not how I would do it.








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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

.








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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Dunning Kruger effect is very specific. It refers to a (scientifically observable) behavior wherein people with low ability at a task tend to have an inflated idea of how competent they are. Essentially, they lack the intelligence necessary to see how stupid they are. 

There is a corollary effect for highly intelligent people, who do the opposite -- they overestimate how bright other people are, through an error of comprehension about how well the average person thinks. They still think they are smarter, but they can't judge by how much.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My experience is that when someone realizes that you are trying to tell them that they don't know what they're talking about, they never say, why by gosh, you are right. I see that you, who have been a successful professional in this area and moreover have been teaching in this field for thirty years, must have a more accurate take on this than I do. 

They just get into a huff and stomp off feeling insulted.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Hondo said:


> To me, stupid is a word used to describe or label an action or decision by someone that is not understood by the observer/labeler.


To me, stupid is when someone does something I don't like and I don't want to find out why.:hide:

It isn't about IQ particularly. My brother-in-law has a PhD in chemistry, something dumb people don't get. And yet, he is mystifyingly dense. My husband says that ever since he was a kid, Tom was so invested in being the smartest guy in the room that he was intolerable, as well as usually wrong. (the truth is, my husband is generally the smartest guy in the room but he keeps a low profile).


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

*


Avna said:



Dunning Kruger effect is very specific. It refers to a (scientifically observable) behavior wherein people with low ability at a task tend to have an inflated idea of how competent they are. Essentially, they lack the intelligence necessary to see how stupid they are. 
.

Click to expand...

*Such as:

I am the best equestrian on the planet, and they can't ride.

I can run faster, jump higher, etc. when they can't. 

*It has been my experience that the people who are really, really good at something are usually somewhat humble about it.*

One of my husband's friends is a retired music producer. He recorded some of the best musicians in the world. He has a wall full of grammy awards. He is very modest and a real down to earth person.

In contrast, we played music with a guy who thought that he was the best of the best. He is really not that great. Mediocre at best. We let him stay for a while because he came with a drummer. 

And there are so many 16 year old horse trainers that know infinitely more than any of us do. Or so they think.


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## Rancher6 (May 9, 2012)

Stupid should hurt.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

The reason I gave that example (post #13) is it illustrates problems with Dunning Kruger. In my example I was trying to be helpful, instead I made people mad! The brother was embarrassed by those there, the owner spent money needlessly and mad at me for embarrassing his brother and interfering. Tractor owner and others thought I was "showing off", making fool's of people.
A half century ago I worked for two guys, partners in business (I'll call Tom & Bob, although they've passed, r.i.p.). Tom was my Physics teacher in HS. Both college grads, Tom degrees Science&Math, Bob Psychology and Philosophy. Both had an interest in electronics, I was going to college working for them part time.
Tom lived on a farm, never bathed, wore coveralls, smoked a corn cob pipe.
Bob wore a suit and drank a fifth of whiskey every day, so interesting experience [emoji38].
Tom had a large blackboard by his workbench, everything he worked on involved calculus equations.
Bob did his best while in a drunken stupor.
Bob thought since Tom couldn't fix anything he had a low I.Q. so had him tested...it was 170!
Point is I don't know how this factors into Dunning Kruger since both guys were brilliant but I don't believe they were either too stupid to realize how stupid they were or that they thought other people were more intelligent.
Eccentric yes...they both were. Their problem was (imho) Tom's abilities were limited. He excelled in math but couldn't tie his shoes. Bob had a low self esteem.
To me the least stupid person would be a renaissance man or woman able to do a variety of tasks. 
Some people fitting the Dunning Kruger definition may simply have other issues like schizophrenia or substance abuse. In my wife's and my experience the most profound Dunning Krugers smoked weed. The ones we know actually believe it makes them smarter. 

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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

No Common Sense


"Common sense is sound practical judgment concerning everyday matters, or a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge that is shared by ("common to") nearly all people. The first type of common sense, good sense, can be described as "the knack for seeing things as they are, and doing things as they ought to be done". The second type is sometimes described as folk wisdom, "signifying unreflective knowledge not reliant on specialized training or deliberative thought". The two types are intertwined,"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_sense


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

isn't is scientifically proven that dumb people estimate their intelligence as high (because they are too dumb to realise they are dumb) and more intelligent people tend to minimize their intellect because they see that there is so much they don't know? 



Also I am very much against IQ tests, I think this is a very one sided tool to measure intelligence.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

I guess it takes one to know one. Would you know if someone is smarter?? I personally never met anyone that I considered smarter and I think everyone you ask that question about themselves will tell you the same lol. So we tend to think we are ''smart'' and other people are equally smart or dumber.  No? Any psychological insights?:smile:


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

oh darn, I basically just said I am dumb. HAHA this is so funnyyyy


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

Jolien said:


> isn't is scientifically proven that dumb people estimate their intelligence as high (because they are too dumb to realise they are dumb) and more intelligent people tend to minimize their intellect because they see that there is so much they don't know?
> 
> 
> 
> Also I am very much against IQ tests, I think this is a very one sided tool to measure intelligence.


Years ago we read about Koko, a gorilla that was taught sign language. She missed the "what food is good to eat" I.Q question by choosing a flower.
Seeing a horse and rider Koko signed "horse is sad", asked why..."his mouth hurts".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla)

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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Celeste said:


> And there are so many 16 year old horse trainers that know infinitely more than any of us do. Or so they think.


:iagree: There are so many 16 year olds out there who think they know everything about everything. The really smart ones are informative and helpful without being a jackass.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

*


Dustbunny said:



: The really smart ones are informative and helpful without being a jackass.

Click to expand...

*I think that this sums up the whole discussion.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

I've been waiting for someone to bring up Matthew 5:22- But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

To my way of thinking idiosy is only going to get wprsemas common sense becomes rarer. 

My opinion has come about because it is all to easy to have any question answered for you just with the press of a few keys and asking Google instead of having to think things through for a result. 

It is so easy to answer a question (if you know the answer) instead of requiring the asker to reason it out. That can take a lot longer for certain. Odds are they know the answer if they think logically. 

I love crosswords and quizzes. It makes me think and to try and think like the compiler, thus I am full of useless information. Watching Funny and ignorant Americans on YouTube I find it hard to believe. Obviously they are only showing the most ignorant but it still astounds me that I usually know more correct answers than they do on American History. 

Heck, several didn't know who the Americans fought in the War of Independence or who was fighting in the Civil Wat or what it was about. 

I find this sad AND I have absolutely no doubt that should anyone ask like questions of many Brits answers would be just as dumb.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

Dustbunny said:


> :iagree: There are so many 16 year olds out there who think they know everything about everything. The really smart ones are informative and helpful without being a jackass.


I have a 16yo fellow who helps me here some, lives just down the road. Goes to college and HS! Really nice guy. Whatever I do, wiring, carpentry, etc I show him once and he gets it. He says he doesn't know, but fast learner.

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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

Jolien. Close to what you said, I can't remember who it was, maybe a Chinese philosopher. But whoever it was, said, "This world will never be right because stupid people never have doubts and intelligent people do."


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Fuddyduddy1952 said:


> Seeing a horse and rider Koko signed "horse is sad", asked why..."his mouth hurts".


Perhaps we should have gorillas/chimps/orangs to judge horse shows - would take a lot of the... politics out of the 'findings'.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

charrorider said:


> Jolien. Close to what you said, I can't remember who it was, maybe a Chinese philosopher. But whoever it was, said, "This world will never be right because stupid people never have doubts and intelligent people do."


Perhaps you are thinking of Yeats' famous poem The Second Coming, in which he says "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity." The whole poem is here, and is surely a poem to read for our times. 

Or Bertrand Russell (20th century philosopher and mathematician), who wrote in 1933 about the rise of Nazism, "The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

Both are widely applicable.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Fuddyduddy1952 said:


> Years ago we read about Koko, a gorilla that was taught sign language. She missed the "what food is good to eat" I.Q question by choosing a flower.
> Seeing a horse and rider Koko signed "horse is sad", asked why..."his mouth hurts".
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla)
> 
> Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


Whoever thought that 'Flower' was the wrong answer to that question has never had hibiscus tea


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

Avna said:


> Perhaps you are thinking of Yeats' famous poem The Second Coming, in which he says "The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity." The whole poem is here, and is surely a poem to read for our times.
> 
> Or Bertrand Russell (20th century philosopher and mathematician), who wrote in 1933 about the rise of Nazism, "The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."
> 
> Both are widely applicable.



I love Yeats... I used to read Yeats and Baudelaire when I was in highschool. I read les fleurs du mal when I was 18. I still have it. I also love Rilke... The song of love and death... I used to read ''alone'' by Poe alot as a teenager. I recognized myself in it.  



I don't know if Russell was entirely right... Lots of intelligent people use their intellect to do things I personally consider wrong. When my coworkers bother me it would be really easy for me to make life hell for them... But it's against my principles and I'd rather use my brain to study Buddhism or learn something new. Using it to plot revenge is not... erm... a good use according to me.  

I think hating other groups is wired biologically into our brain because you needed to be suspicious to survive. ''The other group'' might have raped your women or beaten or stolen your kids... But we don't live in that environment anymore... It's like loving sugar. It makes sense to eat foods packed with sugar, it gave us energy to hunt and work. But now that food is so abundantely available that it's not a good idea to rely on your instincts. After all we are animals. We must ''learn'' to live in the modern world and try to reprogram our brains. Like racism: no no no. It is not okay. It is okay to be careful with people you don't know but it's not okay to hate on them. (just te be clear I am a feminist and I am wholly against racism)


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

Fuddyduddy1952 said:


> Years ago we read about Koko, a gorilla that was taught sign language. She missed the "what food is good to eat" I.Q question by choosing a flower.
> Seeing a horse and rider Koko signed "horse is sad", asked why..."his mouth hurts".
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla)
> 
> Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk



Oh my! I know Koko! I never knew this story though! It amazes me. As a kid I was always extremely angry when I saw animals in a zoo. I always felt that people treated animals bad and most animals are way smarter then you would consider... You just need to have an open mind and take the time to really ''see''. As a kid I always got the persistent feedback that animals reacted very good to me. Well yes because I took the time to consider their perspective and respected them. You don't own an animal. As if it isn't worse enough we sell them and handle them we also claim them to be our property. No. It's your duty to give animals under your care the best life possible. (Off course I also made mistakes and did stupid things when I was a kid...) 

I would love to work with primates. I actually wanted to study agro- and biotechnology and specialize in animal training but because of the maths (I am really bad at that) I couldn't. 



In the zoo you can watch into the eyes of bigger fish and you can see they really SEE you too. They are smart. They have needs. Needs we don't even see because we don't take the time to communicate with them. Or at least even try.... 



Thanks for sharing the Koko story. I think Koko is right and I often see uncomfortable horses with riders really bothering them. I pray I will never be that way and I will see in time what I am doing.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Jolien said:


> . It makes sense to eat foods packed with sugar, it gave us energy to hunt and work. But now that food is so aburndantely available that it's not a good idea to rely on your instincts. After all we are animals. We must ''learn'' to live in the modern world and try to reprogram our brains. Like racism: no no no. It is not okay. It is okay to be careful with people you don't know but it's not okay to hate on them. (just te be clear I am a feminist and I am wholly against racism)


For me, some of what you say is correct especially with food as programming TP ignore ones instincts, on the other hand it is all to easy to loose the instincts humans once relied on. 

Bushmen of S. Africa can smell,water from a long distance away. They can survive in hostile environments yet many would consider them ignorant. 

If there was a global disaster, I think I would want to have a Bushman guiding me than any high IQ scientist!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

LoriF said:


> Whoever thought that 'Flower' was the wrong answer to that question has never had hibiscus tea


...Or they have :frown_color: (why is there no throwing up emoji??)


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

loosie said:


> ...Or they have :frown_color: (why is there no throwing up emoji??)


:shrug: I like it


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

LoriF said:


> :shrug: I like it


Growing up on the farm, grandparents lived next door. Grandmother was a tiny lady and could make a stick grow. Great cook, and she used different (edible of course) flowers in salads, had beautiful flower gardens, made sasafras, mint and other teas. Things she grew.

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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

Mark Twain had some great quotes on stupidity:

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

"It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt."

"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

How come nobody has brought up or quoted Forrest Gump? Stupid is as stupid does........


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I little honey and lemon and hibiscus tea is really quite refreshing. Then again I also sprinkle flowers in salads, stuff them for appetizers, use them as edible decorations for dessert.....


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

@Fuddyduddy1952 HAHA That is so true... Especially the first quote. It really annoys me sometimes. I don't even bother anymore to talk with the ignorant. The only times when I do react is when they are making racist or sexist remarks against me or others...


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

I understand Dunning-Kruger and the Peter Principle but things can get "sticky" which is why I asked define stupid. Politically those on the left believe right wingers are stupid and vice versa. What one person thinks is stupid may just be they don't understand or it's just a different way of doing things.
Where I grew up on the farm grandparents lived next door born late 1800's. Grandad had 17 years of trade schools and college. Machinist, architect, mechanical engineer, M.D., Osteopath. His I.Q. had to be Mensa/genius level. They had two kids, Mom and her brother Lamar who lived there (Downs Syndrome), he was low level (40s I.Q.?). He had his own language which I understood and interpreted for other people. 
I was with Grandad when he passed at 86 at home, he was headed to his office, still working. At home he was either reading of building something. One example of the "sticky stupid".:
Grandmother loved gardening so Grandad decided to build her a garden cart. He used 3/4" marine plywood, 20 inch cart wheels, iron pipe for axle and handle, all put together with glue, screws and 1" angle iron. Primed, painted and had the capacity of about three wheelbarrow loads. That was 50+ years ago and the cart is still at the home place.
Arnold Schwarzenegger would break a sweat rolling it empty on level pavement since it weighs about 200#. The problem is Grandmother was 4'11" and 98 pounds.
One day a neighbor asked for black walnuts knowing we had trees so Grandad, Dad and I loaded the cart with them. Grandad gave Lamar the task of delivering walnuts to the neighbor. 
Our long driveway was gravel, going downhill then up a steep grade. If I was given that task I would have hitched the wagon to our Farmall tractor. Instead what we saw was amazing as Lamar eased cart to bottom, then going up went in a zig-zag pattern! It took him a few hours but he did it, going across and up a few inches at a time.
The point is the man with a high I.Q. designed and built a great cart but one Grandmother could never use (stupid). The man with a low I.Q. accomplished a Herculean task one would consider stupid but mission accomplished!









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## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

There's a lot of people that also equate stupidity to appearances or mannerisms, not just general intelligence. I've had my fair share of snide comments because of I have a slight lisp and my brain travels at a much quicker pace than my mouth. It does take a toll mentally. Had a teacher who did not have high hopes for me until I started turning in essays--turns out I write much more eloquently than I speak....and yet due to issues, no fault of my own, there will always be someone who wants to say otherwise. 

We need to learn to refrain from saying* our judgments out loud until we can see someone in action- even repeatedly (because let's be real, everyone will judge the first we lay eyes on someone- that's totally normal and human). Now if someone isn't understanding something, you explain it a different way until they do (I have respect for teachers that do this everyday). It doesn't mean someone is stupid, but they just need for things to 'click'. Everyone has lapses from time to time. 

That all said, I witnessed today someone with headphones running as any athlete would do on a nice summer morning.....and then I realized they were running in the middle of a moderately busy street, with headphones, and next to an empty sidewalk. I mean, unless there's a huge difference in asphalt and concrete sidewalk for running...I don't get it. Why in the world are you running in the middle of the road??? Runners and cyclist here do make me question all the different types of intelligence in these people during that time.. :lol:
The cyclists are particularly nasty about it..but that's a whole different topic.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Jolien said:


> @I don't even bother anymore to talk with the ignorant. ...




But we were/are all ignorant about so many things. Everyone, even Fuddy's grandpa, needed to learn stuff from someone. If no one bothers to talk to you, teach you, you'll remain ignorant. 

Fuddy thanks for sharing about your family. But the pics, who are they? Guessing first is your grandpa?


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

In some places, running on the sidewalk involves frequent dropoffs or slopes for driveways and street crossings that must be slowed down for or jumped over. I used to run 2 miles every morning before going to work and always ran in the street. Very little to no traffic though. When running one tends to want to get into a rhythm and not need to break speed or cadence.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

loosie said:


> But we were/are all ignorant about so many things. Everyone, even Fuddy's grandpa, needed to learn stuff from someone. If no one bothers to talk to you, teach you, you'll remain ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> Fuddy thanks for sharing about your family. But the pics, who are they? Guessing first is your grandpa?


Yes, Grandad and his Cessna 140 which he ran into high voltage power lines, crashed and burned in 1956. A young man saved his life, later rewarded as grandad gave he and his wife land to build their home on. They were the walnut neighbors and the man was a commercial pilot. Strange world? Other is Mom, Grandad's first plane a Taylorcraft.

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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

Finalcanter said:


> There's a lot of people that also equate stupidity to appearances or mannerisms, not just general intelligence. I've had my fair share of snide comments because of I have a slight lisp and my brain travels at a much quicker pace than my mouth. It does take a toll mentally. Had a teacher who did not have high hopes for me until I started turning in essays--turns out I write much more eloquently than I speak....and yet due to issues, no fault of my own, there will always be someone who wants to say otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To me this is an interesting subject because as Finalcanter pointed out it can be perceived intelligence.
Years ago I had a good friend (rip) inventor , his wife a neurology professor. He was in to biofeedback and worked with Atari actually had a working device you could play video games with your mind, no joystick. He had interesting thoughts on how the brain works. Example my wife is terrible at math. Practical things like counting change she's fine but abstract , algebra, calculus...forget it. My friend said when presented with a problem her "brain doors all slam shut". 
That's the problem I think most people have whether riding a bicycle or horse it's comfort level.
People who don't know something but ad lib, making up stories making others believe they know is what Dunning-Kruger is about (I guess ).

What is meant by:
Romans 1:22-32*King James Version (KJV)

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools."



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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

I don't really see people as being stupid so much as being lazy.


People have the choice to expand horizons, learn new knowledge and gain greater ability and competence in any field they choose. The majority of the population choose not to do so. There are many different reasons for people to find comfort, ease and pride in stagnation, early childhood developmental trauma and all of it's addendum's covers most bases. Stupidity is not the great limiter - Fear is. Fear of social death i.e separation from the herd, is more often than not what creates willful stupidity in most people. They reach a comfortable level of competence - no one is attacking them, they are getting their pay check, they are functioning adequately in society and so they feel a measure of pride/safety. The fact that it is more pride than anyone in their position should feel is not something to be questioned - pride is pride, safety is safety and if exaggerating their effectiveness is what it takes to keep that sense of pride and safety - than so be it.


We are a reductionist species living in an incredibly complex universe. Many people need to think that if we can understand one little piece of the universe, then we can understand the universe itself. So when we come to a point where we believe we know _all there is to know_ about a subject, then we can feel relief, because this can indicate that we are no longer living in a hostile universe of which we are incapable of understanding. Believing that we know _everything_ about _something_ (accuracy on this point is irrelevant) is much safer than dealing with the reality of, we know _nothing_ about _everything_. We need proof that we have the capability of understanding everything because once everything is understood, we can demonstrate a level of control and therefore safety in our world.


I think this holds true for every individual on this planet but the potential to appear stupid runs on a scale with as many degrees as there are people. Every one of us will cling to something stupidly when looked at from an other's perspective. Non Christians think Christians are stupid for clinging to and being proud of outmoded and mythical ideas. Christians think non Christians are stupid for lacking the ability to see that there is a divine plan being orchestrated all around them. One race of people think another race is stupid for clinging to ancient cultural traditions that seem to hold no purpose beyond keeping them in the dark - and so it goes on and on.


People are not really stupid, they just lack the courage and fortitude that is required to challenge their own limited beliefs - often about others! Safer and easier to play dumb. The problem is; when does playing dumb become true stupidity?


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> But we were/are all ignorant about so many things. Everyone, even Fuddy's grandpa, needed to learn stuff from someone. If no one bothers to talk to you, teach you, you'll remain ignorant.
> 
> Fuddy thanks for sharing about your family. But the pics, who are they? Guessing first is your grandpa?



I used the wrong word again. I was talking about certain types of people that are really racist and start yelling and cursing and are ''always right'' and they don't want to take the perspective of someone else... I don't bother wasting my energy on those people because it's no use. Of course I do tell them I am against racism and I give them my opinion but only once and I don't go into a discussion with them. Once I had a boss that was out to get me. She was really smart and she tried to do some mindtricks on me. She told me all kinds of nasty stuff about me and said that I am a bad person. I just told her: yeah you are absolutely right, I couldn't have said that better myself.  haha. Her face was priceless. You get the point, I don't bother ''fighting'' certain types of people.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

@kiwigirl Right, intellect can be measured in so many ways. Real stupid people are those who think black and white and are not willing to consider the perspective of another. Everything is relative and who are we to claim we are the best or are doing it the best... I have friends that did the lowest education possible in my country. Most people consider ppl who did that education as ''dumb'' but my friends are not dumb at all. Maybe they don't know fancy words but they do know life and I have had so many wonderful deep conversations with them... Some of the most interesting people I met, they were not educated highly. They didn't wear normal clothes nor were they very popular, but they had a mind of their own. And they looked at the world in a special way... 



For me, I don't respect a degree or money nor status or wealth. I don't care what you wear. Where you're from. What your skin color is. I want to get to know people themselves and see their souls.  That's why I like horses and animals. They don't give a erm about your degree. They see you and only you. People would do well to learn this too and apply it.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

kiwigirl said:


> People are not really stupid, they just lack the courage and fortitude that is required to challenge their own limited beliefs - often about others! Safer and easier to play dumb. The problem is; when does playing dumb become true stupidity?


So... the bloke proudly holding up a sign that says "Get a Brian Morans" is just lazy, not stupid? And I have wondered, is the guy in Ku Klux Klan uniform, carrying the sign that says 'Superior Jeans'... is his name Brian Morans by any chance??


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

@ My really smart students play dumb because they want to avoid more work or expectations, haha.  I don't understand why people are so shy to say it: intelligence varies and it comes in many shapes. Some people are smarter than others. What's so wrong with saying that. It is just a fact that we were not born with equal skillsets. Brains differ... When they cut open Einstein's brain they saw he had more of something ( I don't remember the scientific name) that enables neurons to connect ideas, retain them and hold them longer and more steadily in his memory. I once did an IQ test and scored extremely bad. Every time we had to do multiple choice I flunked. Because I am creative thinker. Education frustrated me because I didn't fit in the box. Am I dumb because of that? Some people would say yes. Others would disagree. Oh well actually it doesn't matter to me.  I cherish my weird brain. 



The brain... ah, it's a fantastical machine. I think intelligence is far more exciting and erotic than any naked body part. That flame you can see in someone's eyes when they realize you realize... That touching of ideas and 'getting' eachother. That one piercing look that says: yes I understand...


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

You're right Loosie that is stupid lol. But I still think that lazy comes first, an unwillingness to question the conditioning received as a child, to open ones mind to new ideas, to fail to take advantage of opportunities to expand one's horizon - I think that is laziness. 



Unfortunately laziness is habitual and develops into stupid. 



Ignorance is not knowing something, laziness is not looking for the answer and stupidity occurs when ignorance is defended.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Maybe you wouldn't call this 'stupid' as such, but hows this for size... my Yr10 son's science teacher had an argument with the class the other day, after telling them that psychology is not actually science, that she didn't study psych at uni 'because she is smart' and only people who don't know better study psych & call it 'science'... 

Earlier in the piece, my kid's primary school principal vetoed their grade 3 teacher teaching them cursive writing, as pointless & confusing. That's one thing I suppose, but he also vetoed me (voluntarily, by invite from teacher, not paid) teaching them typing, because typing skills/QWERTY keyboard would be obsolete in a couple of years, as everyone just texts with their thumbs...


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

We had a very good friend (rip) who was lazy. He was always amazed things we did. I used to say the more things you do the more you CAN do. 
Everyone has probably seen the movie "Karate Kid". Mr. Miyagi had the kid wax cars, paint, etc. for a reason.
We've all experienced store clerks who are befuddled when the bill is $8.50 and you hand them $13.50 because you want $5 back.

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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^No, haven't in memory had a store clerk get confused about that, but I did buy hay last year from a woman who told me she was an accountant & couldn't do the sum for $55/bale without a piece of paper & pen, and was amazed that me working it out in my head turned out to be correct.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

loosie said:


> ^No, haven't in memory had a store clerk get confused about that, but I did buy hay last year from a woman who told me she was an accountant & couldn't do the sum for $55/bale without a piece of paper & pen, and was amazed that me working it out in my head turned out to be correct.



I can't do that either. Lol. Does this mean I am dumb? No.  Funny how you guys are conversing about intellingence and you all measure it with the same tools: can a person count in his/her head. If they can't they must be not that smart. Haha. 



(general remark, not aimed at any of the commenters or forum members) You know the thing I like (and hate at the same time) the most? People understimating my intelligence. On one hand it's amusing because it gets me off the hook. On the other hand it is insulting especially when you try to play with them and they don't understand. If you challenge someone by claiming (or even thinking) they are not intelligent you must be willing to go all the way though


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

and also... yes some people are dumb. But being not that smart is not a bad thing nor should it be an insult. People can be so much more than only smart. They can be kind, caring, loyal, sensitive, a good friend, thrustworthy. You all like horses so much... Does a horse's intelligence rival ours? By far no or they would be the ones riding us. Lol. But still y'all like horses, care for them and think they are ''pretty smart''.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

@*loosie* I used to think psychologists were useless too... Because I really couldn't understand how someone would or even could be able to help me... Untill I found one that really helped me and I came to realize that all the bad ones I spoke to were not representative for the profession.  Looks like I was pretty biased.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

This is a true story. My wife (rip) used to have a Rx that was $30.00 a month. So I went to pick it up one month and the girl behind the counter rang it up and said. "that will be $60.00." I questioned the 100% price increase from the previous month. She said it was only a 50% increase. She talked to the main person and came back and gave it to me for the original $30.00 charge. And then told me again it was still only a 50% increase. This girl was in college and needless to say I found another pharmacy.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

RegalCharm said:


> This is a true story. My wife (rip) used to have a Rx that was $30.00 a month. So I went to pick it up one month and the girl behind the counter rang it up and said. "that will be $60.00." I questioned the 100% price increase from the previous month. She said it was only a 50% increase. She talked to the main person and came back and gave it to me for the original $30.00 charge. And then told me again it was still only a 50% increase. This girl was in college and needless to say I found another pharmacy.



maybe she had dyscalculy. I did uni (with very high degrees and the potential to do a phd) and I might make the same mistake on a bad day.  50% would be 45, no? 



did you knew people with dyscalculy think differently? In our minds it's all very logical. The metric system is weird. Someone decided 100 cents is the same as 1 euro. but the number 100 is larger compared to 1 so it actually makes no sense. Even the volume of 100 cents is larger than 1. See how this can be confusing?? For you it might be perfectly logical, for me it's not. 

Like I don't understand why you can't eat dessert befor dinner. Why. Because it's a rule? Why. Like I don't understand why I can't eat a full bag of chips at once. Because it is innapropriate and you should learn how to procrastinate? No. In nature when you see a fine berry hanging from a tree and you think: well I will come again tomorrow maybe it will be even riper or more delicious... You are gonna lose big time and be hungry.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

What would a price reduction from $60 to $30 be? 100% or only 50%? 



Typing: I was over 60 when I taught myself to type. So much fun to be able to type without looking. No way am I gonna type with my thumbs.


I type on a Dvorak keyboard. Can't do qwerty. Did you know that qwerty was basically designed to slow typist down so the keys wouldn't stick? Dvorak is very similar to the original keyboard.


Can type much faster and something like 80% of typing is on home keys. Less carpal tunnel problems etc. But the old qwerty sticks around. Would that come under the stupid banner?


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

Hondo said:


> What would a price reduction from $60 to $30 be? 100% or only 50%?


LOL> 60 to 30 would be 50% reduction

but from 30 to 60 would be 100% increase. 

ain't math fun


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

More fun! Wheeee!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_change_and_difference


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Hondo said:


> What would a price reduction from $60 to $30 be? 100% or only 50%?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The weirdest thing. I learned to type when I was fairly young and have been typing for years. A few years back, my middle finger tip got degloved. It got stuck between a horse hoof and the concrete and without thinking, I yanked it out. My finger has been surgically repaired and fine. All feeling is back and perfectly normal. 

While injured, I quickly learned to use my ring finger for the E, D, and C keys. For the life of me, I cannot get my middle finger to use those keys anymore even though there is nothing wrong with it now.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

RegalCharm said:


> This is a true story. My wife (rip) used to have a Rx that was $30.00 a month. So I went to pick it up one month and the girl behind the counter rang it up and said. "that will be $60.00." I questioned the 100% price increase from the previous month. She said it was only a 50% increase. She talked to the main person and came back and gave it to me for the original $30.00 charge. And then told me again it was still only a 50% increase. This girl was in college and needless to say I found another pharmacy.


"You're so stupid" Says the cashier. LOL Hopefully, for her sake, she doesn't go around telling people how stupid this Ol' guy was that came into the store.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

LoriF said:


> "You're so stupid" Says the cashier. LOL Hopefully, for her sake, she doesn't go around telling people how stupid this Ol' guy was that came into the store.


this happened around 8 - 10 yrs. ago so she is probably out of college with a degree. Hopefully she isn't working for the IRS checking tax returns. LOL. 

I was also paying between $450.00 and $500.00 for another Rx a month that was 1 mg once per day. (Cancer treatment) she had to be on for 5 yrs. Then when no more cancer showed up at the end of 5 yrs. She thought that Rx was finished but the doctor told her they changed the time to 10 yrs. to be extra safe.

I shutter to think what that girl would have done with that one.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Jolien said:


> I can't do that either. Lol. Does this mean I am dumb? No.  Funny how you guys are conversing about intellingence and you all measure it with the same tools: can a person count in his/her head. If they can't they must be not that smart. Haha.
> )


My point was this woman was an accountant, made her living in sums...


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

Being an accountant she relied on adding machines to give the correct total/s.
I would not want to be a client who depended on their accountant to do figures in their head. That could lead to huge issues and legal consequences.

For Example.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I am brilliant. No lie! I'm "gifted". I scored 99th percentile in all those college tests like SAT. I have a wide variety of unusual talents, mainly in the arts. But I also have dyscalculia and can barely add and subtract with pencil and paper. Any math, I assume I did it wrong, and I'm usually correct about that. My husband is also brilliant, but he worked most of his adult life at an international particle physics institute (he's the opposite of me in math, obviously). But he can't mimic an accent, carry a tune, dance, take a photograph, or draw an accurate picture, and pronounces and uses the English language so oddly that our daughter, an linguist among other things, dubbed his speech patterns an "idiolect" meaning a dialect of one person. 

We are all pretty odd, but it gives me a bit of a different angle on what people call stupidity. I have thought about this a lot. 

There are qualities we label 'stupid' but they are not, exactly, although they can and often do accompany true stupidity. 

For example, lack of curiosity. Most of the true genius people I know (and hanging out with internationally-known physicists does let you encounter them) are intensely curious, about everything. They want to know what kind of bird that is, why we want butter to be yellow, the chemistry of latex, the latest political scandal's roots -- they want to know WHY and HOW, right down to the atoms. But conventionally bright people often just aren't interested in anything that doesn't appear to be directly of benefit to them, and naively accept the conventional opinions of people on television as true. Their lazy idea of being worldly is to say "they're all crooked so I don't pay attention to anything". Lack of curiosity is a kind of laziness that is independent of intelligence. 

Lack of common sense is another one. Like the grandfather who meticulously built a cart for someone who couldn't use it. Lots of people who are "smart" lack the ability to simply see what is obvious. I know lots of men (they are virtually always men) like this. They often spend a great deal of time and effort on things which either no one wants, or could be obtained far more easily another way, or neglect the one vital thing to get right for some fascinating little detail of the problem they work endlessly to figure out. These people are far from stupid but they _are_ extremely irritating. 

Then there is carelessness. Being a perfectionist and hyper-responsible, I find it unbelievable that some people just don't care if something is broken or dirty or dying from neglect, that some people just don't care if their horse's water bucket is clean, or their saddle doesn't fit. People call that stupid but it's another thing. 

Then there are people who actually are of below-normal intelligence. Remember that half the people are below average! Having dyscalculia has helped me understand how some people, no matter what kind of effort they put in, are just not going to get it. Because it doesn't matter how great my math teachers were, they all gave up on me, while at the very same time my English teachers were suggesting different graduate programs that might interest me. If I measure the length and width of something, I will not be able to remember what the first measurement was unless I write it down as soon as I measure it. I think that this must be what it is like, a little bit, for people who can't understand how historians document and reassess the past, or what the scientific method really entails, or even, how to figure out what kind of car they need.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

RE: Remember that half the people are below average!


Not true in Lake Wobegone where ALL the kids are above average and good lookin' too!


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Jolien said:


> The metric system is weird.


Ok, this made me just laugh out loud :rofl:

And I want to explain: As Swiss I grew up with the metric system. I think once you grasp the concept that all is basically moving decimal places around, it is a done deal.

But then I moved to the US. And suddenly had to deal with the system here :shock:
12 inches is a foot. Ok, but 16 oz is a pound?????? Is there ANY consistency???????

Even after a decade this is still utterly confusing to me. And despite me having to teach my kiddos exactly those things during quarantine, I am still not over it :wink:


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@Avna Throw the horse over the fence, some hay. LOL Amish idiolect
@SwissMiss Metric system is based in 10's if I remember right from hi school (64-68) 10 of those = 1 of this, 10 of this = 1 whatyourcallit. And 10 whatyoucallits = something less than one of the U.S. measurement. lOL


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

RegalCharm said:


> @Avna
> 
> @SwissMiss Metric system is based in 10's if I remember right from hi school (64-68) 10 of those = 1 of this, 10 of this = 1 whatyourcallit. And 10 whatyoucallits = something less than one of the U.S. measurement. lOL


:rofl: Yep. And then we have the measure of "pounds" (weight) as well, which is half a kilogramm, aka 500 grams - in the US a pound is 454 grams (I think?)????
One day my poor brain is going to explode :shock:

Luckily work sticks purely to the metric system, phew!


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

pound = 453.59237 grams.

but a pi is equal to 3.14159265 to infinity 

A squared + B squared = C squared. though not exact multiply B by 1.4 to get C . A is the short measurement, B is the longest measurement. .

Are we confused Yet? LOL


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

RegalCharm said:


> pound = 453.59237 grams.
> 
> but a pi is equal to 3.14159265 to infinity
> 
> ...


Nope, not here :wink: 

It's just that the metric system seems so much more logical to me(as it is basically all the same, just move the decimal place around)... But then, I see people in the printing business (DH's work realm) really struggling with mm - yeah, a fraction of an inch is so much easier to express :shrug:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Is that like how we drive on the 'parkway', but park on the 'driveway'?


First we 'cut down' a tree, then we 'cut it up'.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

Here's another funny Grandad story I thought of. Back in the 50s he installed an electric garage door opener at his home, no one we knew had one back then but he was a gadget freak.
He loved Packard cars and my parents and he had three. He would come home from his office and blow the horn for grandmother to open the garage by pressing a button off of the utility room.
One day I see him working at garage so I walk over, I was a little kid about 7. My "What 'cha doin?" was met with his usual "Going crazy, want to come along?" reply.
Now, this takes ingenuity. He had measured the Packard headlight height, marked his block wall, drilled a 2" hole through, installed a pipe going to an electric eye (photocell) system with relay going to garage door opener. He had just finished and gave me a demonstration. Now when he came home all he had do was flash his headlights, door would go up and he could park his car without bothering my grandmother.
Wow! I said! Amazing...now all a burglar has to do is shine his flashlight into that hole at night and go right in your house![emoji38]
He immediately started dismantling everything after Lord knows how much work he put into it.
All I recall him saying is "see if you can find my mortor mix so I can patch the hole".[emoji23]
In picture are three Packards, I'm to the right on a swing.








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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

RegalCharm said:


> @Avna Throw the horse over the fence, some hay. LOL Amish idiolect


No, it is just English with German (Pennsylvania Dutch is a German dialect) syntax. And an idiolect is a dialect only one person speaks and I bet a lot of Amish for whom English is a second language come up with interesting translations. 

But it does sound like they are doing it the hard way ...


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

Avna said:


> No, it is just English with German (Pennsylvania Dutch is a German dialect) syntax. And an idiolect is a dialect only one person speaks and I bet a lot of Amish for whom English is a second language come up with interesting translations.
> 
> 
> 
> But it does sound like they are doing it the hard way ...


"Outen the light" is another. In Lancaster county Pa Amish speak with an interesting German/English accent.

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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

Fuddyduddy1952 said:


> "Outen the light" is another. In Lancaster county Pa Amish speak with an interesting German/English accent.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


Not surprising, as the Amish were originally Swiss from the German-speaking part of Switzerland... The syntax and probably words sound very much like me when I am really tired. That is when my roots come up big time


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

@Fuddyduddy1952 I believe Packard was the first automobile to have A/C from the factory installed.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

RegalCharm said:


> @Fuddyduddy1952 I believe Packard was the first automobile to have A/C from the factory installed.


My mother talks about Granddads 36 Packard with a radio. She said they would ride dirt roads on what is now the Blue Ridge Parkway and he would stop occasionally playing radio. People would walk down from their homes in the mountains to listen to it.
Somewhere I think I heard about their air conditioning also. 

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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Hondo said:


> RE: Remember that half the people are below average!
> 
> 
> Not true in Lake Wobegone where ALL the kids are above average and good lookin' too!


It's just the men who are good looking. All the women are strong.


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

I am fascinated by dyscalculia. I have never heard of this before and I wonder if I have that. I have always believed that I am as dumb as a bucket of hammers and as thick as a yard of lard when it comes to numbers. I can not get my mind around mathematics, even the basics elude me. I have difficulty retaining numbers in my head, it is a family joke because I can not remember birth dates - even my daughters and I was there! It took me a long time but I have managed to master Sudoku. Well, I say master but really I mean that I can do it after a suitably long period of careful plodding. I am so bad with numbers that I have to count the numbers in every square (yes I know there are only 9!) because I can not see at a glance what number is missing. 



But when it comes to the written word, I was one of the top scoring students in the whole country (I realize New Zealand is a small country) back in the day when I sat my high school English exams. Absolute top of the class for English and pretty good in all written subjects - absolutely scrapping the bottom of the barrel in maths and of course the sciences.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

kiwigirl said:


> I am fascinated by dyscalculia. I have never heard of this before and I wonder if I have that. I have always believed that I am as dumb as a bucket of hammers and as thick as a yard of lard when it comes to numbers. I can not get my mind around mathematics, even the basics elude me. I have difficulty retaining numbers in my head, it is a family joke because I can not remember birth dates - even my daughters and I was there! It took me a long time but I have managed to master Sudoku. Well, I say master but really I mean that I can do it after a suitably long period of careful plodding. I am so bad with numbers that I have to count the numbers in every square (yes I know there are only 9!) because I can not see at a glance what number is missing.
> 
> 
> 
> But when it comes to the written word, I was one of the top scoring students in the whole country (I realize New Zealand is a small country) back in the day when I sat my high school English exams. Absolute top of the class for English and pretty good in all written subjects - absolutely scrapping the bottom of the barrel in maths and of course the sciences.


Kiwigirl!!!!! You could be my wife's twin!!!![emoji16]
She reads books all the time. She's great with horses and other animals (took veterinary courses but couldn't get past math requirements. She's good at art, a great cook, can sing, incredible mechanical skills.
Math, I can hand her $20 for a $13 item and she starts counting with fingers like a child!
She says it's too structured yet abstract. She doesn't do well with math because it's unforgiving. She also had bad math teachers in school.
I'm good at math and building things because it is precise and has to be done a certain way and in order.
Her I.Q. is above average, and I'm sure yours is also.








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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Avna said:


> It's just the men who are good looking. All the women are strong.



I stand corrected. It's been a few decades since listening. He could make me roll on the floor.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

I haven't seen any formal studies but to me it's always been a sort of well know fact that those that excel in english are often poor in math and vice versa. 



I wound up majoring in math just to keep my grade point up for my student loan. For tests on my teaching credential I was barely able to pass the prose writing section. Or something similar. That's been decades ago alse.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Hondo said:


> I haven't seen any formal studies but to me it's always been a sort of well know fact that those that excel in english are often poor in math and vice versa.
> 
> <snip>


Well, that is classic left-brain right-brain split. It is also true that people get better at what they enjoy and what they don't care for they don't practice and hence their skills never develop, or the ones they had atrophy. 

However, 'bad at math' and dyscalculia are qualitatively different. If you could improve if you tried harder, or had better teachers, that's bad at math. If you can't get better no matter how hard you try, that's a learning disorder.


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## Jolien (Aug 19, 2019)

SwissMiss said:


> Ok, this made me just laugh out loud :rofl:
> 
> And I want to explain: As Swiss I grew up with the metric system. I think once you grasp the concept that all is basically moving decimal places around, it is a done deal.
> 
> ...



It's not logical at all for me...  I never understood the comma zero thing. I have really bad dyscalculy.  I always had difficulty grasping things that had no specific ''image'' behind them. Strangely I can understand and explain the weirdest philosophical and theological concepts but understanding chemistry or math seems impossible. :smile:


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Omg! You guys!

I just watched a security video of people standing under a window of a Covid hospital. Their Covid-positive family member threw something from the window, they picked it up and walked off. :eek_color:

The head of the hospital said they have at least one incident like this per day and to please not do it because those objects could be contaminated. I am all for educating the public but I cannot believe this even needs to be said.

I don’t think we stand a chance against this virus.


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