# Is my filly skinny? Or is she just a typical growing filly?



## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

LOL, 27 views and no replies?! I'm bored at work and would love to have some replies on this!


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Those ribs with the belly would bother me. How has she been dewormed? If she had a lot of parasites when you got her it would take a lot more than regular dewormer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Do you not feed any grain?? Not sure what boss is but I don't think it is grain. And your hay doesn't look very nutritous. So add some safe choice or something like that. A young horse needs more than just hay. Do you also have mineral and salk blocks? And yes a good worming program


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## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

you need to grain growing foals.. however with that said...MOST of my foals go through really quick growth spurts and will get that thin for 2-4 weeks until they stop and start packing back on lbs. Animals grow in bone and muscle and fat comes last


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Emilyy said:


> I might add that she was bone skinny when I first got her, so her growth has been stunted A LOT. Her sire and dam were nearly 16HH, and she is just a smidgen over 14HH.
> 
> 
> She has grown very little, and sometimes even loses weight with no cause. But she looks fat, however her ribs are still visible. Is this normal?


First - parent size does not always indicate what size the offspring will be.

As far as seeing ribs on a three year old - yes it does happen.

How have the heat and bugs been? A horse can lose water weight and walk/stomp off weight easily in the summer.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Emily, 

Yes, she is skinny and an unhealthy weight. 

The four photos show a progressive loss of weight and condition. The second photo is not an unhealthy weight, but is pretty typical for a young horse in the middle of a growth spurt. The third and fourth photo are cause for concern. 

I think you need to recalibrate your eye and gain a better understanding of weight and condition. A good place to start is by understanding body score. 

The University of Maine - Cooperative Extension Publications - Bulletin #1010, Body Condition Scoring for Your Horse

In the third photo, her entire backbone protrudes, and there are hollows both in front of and behind the wither. Compare that to the first photo, where the backbone is not at all visible, and there is flesh filling in the space behind the shoulder blade. 

According to the body scale, the first photo is a 5 - 5.5, the second photo is a 4.5 - 5, the third photo is a 3 - 4, and the fourth photo is a 4.

The good news is that she is coming back from the condition in the third photo. The bad news that you're having trouble evaluating what you see accurately. 



> ... might add that she was bone skinny when I first got her, so her growth has been stunted A LOT. Her sire and dam were nearly 16HH, and she is just a smidgen over 14HH.
> 
> First picture is after I had her for just a week, and she put on a good amount of weight.
> 
> Second picture was after I had her for two months. She started getting some fat and muscle.


If the first photo was after you had her for a week, she was not skinny when you got her, she was in good condition. 

In the second photo, she has not *gained* fat and muscle, she has lost both fat and muscle, but it is within the range of normal if she also was having a growth spurt at the same time. If she did not have a growth spurt within that two month period, she just flat wasn't geting enough nutrition to maintain her weight, let alone grow. 

In the third and fourth photos, there is absolutely nothing about her that "looks fat." There is nothing wrong with a growing youngster having a slight shadow of ribs, as in the second photo, but only if otherwise flesh and condition are good, which they are not in the third and fourth photo. 

I would be having a serious conversation with an experienced horse person or vet and re-evaluate your feeding program.


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> Do you not feed any grain?? Not sure what boss is but I don't think it is grain. And your hay doesn't look very nutritous. So add some safe choice or something like that. A young horse needs more than just hay. Do you also have mineral and salk blocks? And yes a good worming program


You really should read more carefully before asking questions that the OP has already stated the answer too. :-(

OP, It sounds like you just have one of those "hard keepers". Free choice hay and the feeds you state are quite the norm, and for another horse, would have them slick and fat. Yours is just not as thrifty with her feed usage.

I have always had good luck with BOSS and Calf Manna for helping keep weight on the less thrifty ones.

Other than being a bit thin, she looks plenty healthy, and cute too boot!!


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## OwnedByAlli (Nov 8, 2011)

Perhaps find a youngstock feed for her and provide mineral blocks in her field. Never heard of BOSS, but a youngstock feed should have all the nutrients in the right proportions for her needs. Like others have said, makes sure she doesn't have a belly of worms (I'd do a feacal worm egg count before worming so you know if it was worms or not). If you don't feel your hay is doing a good enough job, I would also find a 'forage replacer', like a chaff (We have dengie Hi-Fi Original - Dengie Horse Feeds in UK, but I guess you have equivalent companies!), and use that as a base for the bucket feed. Horses are designed to process fiber and do very well on it

I have seen some real scraggly skinny youngsters that make me think '!!' and then 6 months later, they've suddenly bulked out into very handsome looking, fit animals just entering their prime. Youngsters do go through growth spurts and some look terrible, then they fill out once they've just about finished growing and look fit and healthy and rareing to go- kinda like teenage lads going from bones to hulk in a few months!!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I don't see a 1000 lb horse in those photos. I see maybe an 800 or 750 lb horse, without a scale it would be hard to be very accurate. 

Rather than buy the Empower and BOSS, I'd buy something like Safechoice or Strategy or even Ultium for her. 

First, I'd take a fecal sample to the vet to check for parasites, just because that's a good place to start. If needed I'd give her a de-worming and then concentrate on feeding her up. 

I like to use Strategy and Ultium for weight gain and I've had good luck with Omolene 400 & Ultium as well. Feed for where you want her to be, so if you want 950 lbs, then feed her that amount and she will gain. It will take time, especially if she starts growing to make up for the lack in her earlier life. 

She's thin now and in the first pic I still would have liked to see her rounder. She has lost weight and condition since then and needs about 200 lbs according to what I'm seeing in the pics.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, BOSS = black sunflower seeds. 

OP, BOSS is not the best choice, because it's high in omega 6, but lacking omega 3. So instead of BOSS, I'd add cup of canola or veggie oil + flax to her grain (and at this age I wouldn't go with just hay, but feed more nutrition). And no, she doesn't look fat to me on last 2 pics and she doesn't weight 1000 lbs either. If you use measuring tape, with the hay or wormy belly it may give you a wrong estimate. 

I very much agree with what maura and DA said in thread.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Differing opinions. Since the filly has nice covering on her hips I like to see a little bit of rib at this age as it is actually healthier than a fat horse. If you are feeding high protein go easy. Her body is designed for long fiber. Too many grains or overloading the vitamins and minerals can cause rapid growth spurts and you don't really want that as joint problems can develop.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

The most telling detail in the OP's original post is not even the evidence of the photos. 

It's that she asks the question "Skinny or growing?" and then goes on to tell us several times, that the _filly isn't growing_. So, that leaves one answer. 

Saddlebag, I like to see young horses on the lean side, and dislike seeing a halter show ring fat yearling or two year old. And I would prefer a three year old to look like a three old - leaner than its mature counterpart. 

However, a horse that doesn't grow at all between the age of 3 and 4 and goes from a 5.5 to a 3 on the body score scale in the same period while not growing is not a healthy horse.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

maura said:


> However, a horse that doesn't grow at all between the age of 3 and 4


Just to add... Both my horses went from 13'1 and on skinny side to 14 between 1.5 and 2, and up to 14'3 and 15'1 by 4 yo. So the proper nutrition is a key.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

FaydesMom said:


> You really should read more carefully before asking questions that the OP has already stated the answer too. :-(
> 
> OP, It sounds like you just have one of those "hard keepers". Free choice hay and the feeds you state are quite the norm, and for another horse, would have them slick and fat. Yours is just not as thrifty with her feed usage.
> 
> ...


 You might brush up on proper diet and read Maura's post above yours. That horse isn't a hard keeper and if it is it needs to be fed properly. Her vet states that it needs more protein also and her hay doesn't look to be the best it just looks like filler. A horse that age and condition needs more attention given to it's diet and worming.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I agree that the first step is to get a fecal egg count to determine if worms are an issue. If she hasn't been wormed recently, and the FEC comes up clean, you might consider worming for tapeworms anyway (praziquantel, I believe), since those won't always show up in the test.

I think you're on the right track with her diet, but it needs some tweaking- if she's not already getting free choice hay I'd get as close to it as you're able to do, as well as increase the Empower Balance to 1.5-2 lbs/day. For added calories, my go-to's are rice bran, beet pulp and alfalfa. You can feed any combination of those things but limit rice bran to 2 lbs/day (look for the fortified, stabilized kind), and beet pulp to ~4 lbs/day (dry weight). For alfalfa, you can feed pellets, cubes, or hay- get whatever is most convenient/cheapest in your area.


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> You might brush up on proper diet and read Maura's post above yours. That horse isn't a hard keeper and if it is it needs to be fed properly. Her vet states that it needs more protein also and her hay doesn't look to be the best it just looks like filler. A horse that age and condition needs more attention given to it's diet and worming.


Read.


> "I was *told by my vet* to buy some *high-protein hay* that has some sort of grain in it, like barley, wheat grass, or rye grass. I found some *nice rye grass/blue stem mixed round bales that were high in protein*. This has put on _some_ weight, and has given her that oh-so-attractive hay belly, but she just doesn't look right to me.
> 
> I also read about the benefits of* BOSS seeds, *and have started gradually adding about a pound of those into her diet. She is also on a pound of* Nutrena's Empower Balance *grass ration balancer a day. This might not sound like enough for her, but *I am slowly increasing the amounts.* She is 14HH and approx. 950-1000 lbs. With this she also has* 24/7 access to mineral and regular salt.* *My vet said this is balanced*, but is there anything I'm missing? She is UTD on everything.


You guys are just too funny...:lol:


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

*EVERYONE*

PLEASE, PLEASE read my post again. A lot of you are asking and telling me to do things that I've already covered. I've had horses all my life, and this is the only filly that I've owned that has ever had this issue. I came here to get some input, which I have so far gotten and I really appreciate it!

The hay she is on is very good quality, grown by Oklahoma State University and is fed to their horses in their equine program, if that means anything to you all. I can post more detailed pictures of the hay, but I already know it's good quality.

*She has been tube-wormed, checked for parasites, and is on a very strict worming schedule. She isn't wormy.

Ginger gets her hay 24/7. And she is on a ration balancer and black oil sunflower seeds. She also has 24/7 access to salt blocks. When I put her on grain, such as Safechoice, or TC, or Purina, she seems to get skinnier. Odd, isn't it? But, I would like to buy some rice bran to add to her diet as I think that might help. But I just don't know with her.*

Here is a picture from today. She seems to look much better to me! But apparently my opinion needs some work...so tell me what you all think! And also, one person said her back is protruding, and it's not. She is kind of slab-sided, and it seems that way in the pictures. I'll take some better full-view pics tomorrow!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

This is probably 100% unrelated but have you had her tested for HYPP/know her status? 

There's a member on this board who, I believe, had two horses (mother and son) get skinnier and skinnier until they eventually died - even though they were getting plenty of hay and grain. After they each died, I believe it turned out that they were H/H and N/H and their symptoms were actually symptoms of their HYPP... :shock:

So, that might be something to be sure of -if you aren't already- just to be safe.

ETA- I don't think she's deathly skinny or anything -according to the "today" picture- but like some other posters mentioned, the fact that she's not growing but is fluctuating a ton weight-wise concerns me...


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

Wallaby said:


> This is probably 100% unrelated but have you had her tested for HYPP/know her status?
> 
> There's a member on this board who, I believe, had two horses (mother and son) get skinnier and skinnier until they eventually died - even though they were getting plenty of hay and grain. After they each died, I believe it turned out that they were H/H and N/H and their symptoms were actually symptoms of their HYPP... :shock:
> 
> So, that might be something to be sure of -if you aren't already- just to be safe.


Oh my...well she doesn't go back to any Impressive blood, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I will call my vet in the morning and make an appointment for her to do so- she's already coming out to pull coggins so I'm sure she can do this test as well.

Thank you!


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

maura said:


> The most telling detail in the OP's original post is not even the evidence of the photos.
> 
> It's that she asks the question "Skinny or growing?" and then goes on to tell us several times, that the _filly isn't growing_. So, that leaves one answer.
> 
> ...


Well, she has gotten taller, and looks considerably different than when I first got her. I didn't word that right, so thanks for pointing that out. I guess I don't know if she is just growing or what. I have had many people tell me that young horses' weight fluctuates while growing, so I wasn't sure if this pertained to my filly or if it's true, etc. But, I never said she wasn't growing, just that her growth has been stunted and that she has grown very little.

Thanks.


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

Just a thought- Would you all think a probiotic might help her? I don't know why on earth I haven't thought of this! My show goats use to get them all the time to keep their weight up under stress. I'll ask my vet when she comes out though...thanks for any input.


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## maddiemaisie (Jul 31, 2009)

Have been having the same problem with our 3 year old, his weight fluctuates too, but he IS growing so have put it down to that. 

First pic was taken end of may.

Next pic one month later. 

He has had another growth spurt but seems to be putting some weight back on again now, i hate it when you can see his ribs.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

The last photo posted by the OP shows the filly at a body score of 5 or 5.5. 

I'm a little concerned about the rapid variation in the horse's weight and condition in a fairly short time, but clearly the OP is concerned, asking questions and doing research, which is the appropriate response. 

I really can't stress enough what a valuable tool the body score index is. It gives multiple, objective criteria for evaluating weight and condition. Most horsepeople, and I am certainly NO exception, lie to themselves or kid themselves about their horse's weight and condition, or more kindly, don't view it accurately. (Yes, I am big boned, thank you very much! And my air fern easy keeper QHs are "show weight", so there!)

It is a very useful exercise to take the info from the body score index and evaluate your horses with a critical, dispassionate eye.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

maura said:


> I really can't stress enough what a valuable tool the body score index is. It gives multiple, objective criteria for evaluating weight and condition. Most horsepeople, and I am certainly NO exception, lie to themselves or kid themselves about their horse's weight and condition, or more kindly, don't view it accurately. (Yes, I am big boned, thank you very much! And my air fern easy keeper QHs are "show weight", so there!)
> QUOTE]
> 
> I am a 'big-boned' girl, even when I was young and thin.....my wrists and ankles measure bigger than smaller framed people. Is there a measurement on a horse that would determine if they are just smaller boned? Or is it all visual?


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Emilyy said:


> *EVERYONE*
> 
> PLEASE, PLEASE read my post again. A lot of you are asking and telling me to do things that I've already covered. I've had horses all my life, and this is the only filly that I've owned that has ever had this issue. I came here to get some input, which I have so far gotten and I really appreciate it!
> 
> ...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Emilyy, I live in Stillwater and buy my grass hay here too, and it's good hay, I agree with you there. BUT........some horses just don't so well on strictly grass hay. The last pic you put up of your horse looks a whole lot better than the first ones, she's actually at a pretty decent weight. She could use some more but not desperately. 

I like to keep my feeding as simple as possible which is why you won't find me feeding 13 different products. I choose Safeguard, Strategy, Omolene 400 and such because they are very balanced and do a good job of meeting the horses requirements. 

If your horse loses weight on those products, them I'm willing to BET MONEY that you're not following the feeding directions on the bags. 

For a 1,000 lb horse (assuming that's where you want her) you would feed:

Safechoice - 5 to 7.5 lbs per day, (their directions for Performance Ligth Exercise, .5 to .75 per 100 lbs of body weight). That's the original formula not one of the newer specialty formulas. 

Strategy - Professional Formula GX - .75 to 1.5% of weight/day = 7.5 lbs - 15 lbs/day 

Ultium Competition - 6 lbs to 11.5 lbs per day

Omolene 400 - 13 lbs/day for light work

Omolene 400 is a complete feed and doesn't need to have hay fed with it, which is why is such a good one for putting on weight. When I get a thin horse in, I like to use the 400 and still let them have grass hay as desired, by the time they get to a good weight, I can cut back some on the 400 and feed more hay. Just make sure you don't cut so much that the nutrition balance is upset. 

All of these feeds have pre & pro biotics in them, no need to add them or vitamins or minerals. Just salt, feed bucket, hay and water. Very simple.


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> Emilyy said:
> 
> 
> > *EVERYONE*
> ...


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Emilyy, I live in Stillwater and buy my grass hay here too, and it's good hay, I agree with you there. BUT........some horses just don't so well on strictly grass hay. The last pic you put up of your horse looks a whole lot better than the first ones, she's actually at a pretty decent weight. She could use some more but not desperately.
> 
> I like to keep my feeding as simple as possible which is why you won't find me feeding 13 different products. I choose Safeguard, Strategy, Omolene 400 and such because they are very balanced and do a good job of meeting the horses requirements.
> 
> ...



Why is there not a /facepalm smilie on this forum?? Doesn't anybody read any more. The horse is NOT on "hay only"... oh, never mind. I give up.

OP, good luck to you with your hard keeper. Just keep doing what you are doing, working with your vet and slowly upping everything you are giving her until you find the amounts she needs to be fat and slick! 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

FaydesMom said:


> Why is there not a /facepalm smilie on this forum?? Doesn't anybody read any more. The horse is NOT on "hay only"... oh, never mind. I give up.
> 
> OP, good luck to you with your hard keeper. Just keep doing what you are doing, working with your vet and slowly upping everything you are giving her until you find the amounts she needs to be fat and slick!
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


I have read her entire post several times. I know the horse isn't on 'strictly' hay. What I also understand from reading and re-reading her posts is, what she is doing IS NOT WORKING for her, so I'm giving her some suggestions. She doesn't need to do anything I've said if she doesn't want to, I'm tossing out things to be considered.


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## mysticalhorse (Apr 27, 2011)

Op- I am also in Ok... Crook I mean Creek County and the feed I have found to be excellent for both my 2 month old colt and my 2 yr old filly is Patriot. I feed the 14/6 and have been using it for a long time. My under sized and under weight 2 yr old is growig like a weed and my colt is tall and at a great weight wih no uh oh he had a growth spurt and looks starved. Patriot has a short list of ingredents and there is several that a lot of people add as supplements. I have tried other feeds and always go back to this! 

Your hay looks good, I wouldnt let other worry you about it. I cut hay for a living...lol... And with our extreme lack of rain Im glad you were able to find a good bale!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Ok from what I've read this filly is not on grain. A ration balancer is not grain. I just went over this with my vet. Also a worming program does not mean she doesn't have worms. Fecal tests are not accurate. Horses don't pass worms in every poo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

poppy1356 said:


> Ok from what I've read this filly is not on grain. A ration balancer is not grain. I just went over this with my vet. Also a worming program does not mean she doesn't have worms. Fecal tests are not accurate. Horses don't pass worms in every poo.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right-o. They pass worms that are passible in poo.
Some worms, such as small strongyles, do not shed out in manure, so therefore will not be detected in a fecal test. But every worm that DOES shed out in manure, it will test accurately for. 
So, they're accurate for what they are designed for, but they aren't 100% accurate for ALL worms. Just like dewormers.


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## Terre (Oct 23, 2011)

I feed my guy ADM feeds. He started off on Jrglow and is now on primglo. How is her teeth. I know that my guy loss some weight when he started to loss his teeth.


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## Terre (Oct 23, 2011)

His baby teeth that is. I forgot to put that in.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> Right-o. They pass worms that are passible in poo.
> Some worms, such as small strongyles, do not shed out in manure, so therefore will not be detected in a fecal test. But every worm that DOES shed out in manure, it will test accurately for.
> So, they're accurate for what they are designed for, but they aren't 100% accurate for ALL worms. Just like dewormers.


Yes, that's what I ment. My vet said because there was so many different types of worms and the fecal only tests for certain ones that a test was a waste of money. So he suggested a panacur powerpac which is not the same as panacur. She has been putting on weight steadily ever since. We also knew she had worms from her history.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> Right-o. They pass worms that are passible in poo.
> Some worms, such as small strongyles, do not shed out in manure, so therefore will not be detected in a fecal test. But every worm that DOES shed out in manure, it will test accurately for.
> So, they're accurate for what they are designed for, but they aren't 100% accurate for ALL worms. Just like dewormers.


Well, I tube worm the beginning of every year to every one of my horses to try and rule out any parasites. I've done all I can do as far as worming and parasite-prevention goes. Any more I just might get called crazy! I think it's just like with anyone else on here, you can't prevent everything, but you can take measures to do your best at it and that is what I've done with her.




Terre said:


> I feed my guy ADM feeds. He started off on Jrglow and is now on primglo. How is her teeth. I know that my guy loss some weight when he started to loss his teeth.


Her teeth were checked as I had a thought, too, that her weight issue may be to blame for this. But again they're fine. And I've wanted to feed Jr. Glo from ADM for sooo long! My show goats were on ADM feeds and just blossomed, and the nutrition in the feeds they sell are great. Thanks for bringing this up, as I had almost let this brand of feed slip my mind.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Emilyy said:


> Well, I tube worm the beginning of every year to every one of my horses to try and rule out any parasites. I've done all I can do as far as worming and parasite-prevention goes. Any more I just might get called crazy! I think it's just like with anyone else on here, you can't prevent everything, but you can take measures to do your best at it and that is what I've done with her.
> 
> 
> Is this a Typo?? Tube worm beginning of every year?? if that is the case then that could be alot of the problem:shock:


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

Emilyy said:


> Well, I tube worm the beginning of every year to every one of my horses to try and rule out any parasites. I've done all I can do as far as worming and parasite-prevention goes. Any more I just might get called crazy! I think it's just like with anyone else on here, you can't prevent everything, but you can take measures to do your best at it and that is what I've done with her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> Emilyy said:
> 
> 
> > *EVERYONE*
> ...


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Emilyy, I live in Stillwater and buy my grass hay here too, and it's good hay, I agree with you there. BUT........some horses just don't so well on strictly grass hay. The last pic you put up of your horse looks a whole lot better than the first ones, she's actually at a pretty decent weight. She could use some more but not desperately.
> 
> I like to keep my feeding as simple as possible which is why you won't find me feeding 13 different products. I choose Safeguard, Strategy, Omolene 400 and such because they are very balanced and do a good job of meeting the horses requirements.
> 
> ...


13lbs a day of the Omolene? That's not too much? And it was my understanding that horses need hay, or some kind of forage, to keep their digestive tracts healthy. Right? I fed a complete feed once from Purina, cut the hay out(because I simply didn't have any, it was in the middle of the drought) and she got super thin. I was feeding her the right amount as directed per the bag(I'm a nutritionist junkie and always follow labels!), and it wasn't until I was able to get some cheap hay from Atwoods that she actually started to bloom out. Not nessesarily weight-wise, but she wasn't "sunken in" in her flank areas anymore.

I just hope I can get to a diet that works for her. I want her to be the best she can be and not fluctuate like this. Thank you for saying she looks good, I've(as you may know) have worked really hard on her. I don't think she looks any different now than any of the other horses at the barn I work at(health-wise). But who knows, there's always some "horse-guru" out there that will tell you something different:wink:


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> Emilyy said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I tube worm the beginning of every year to every one of my horses to try and rule out any parasites. I've done all I can do as far as worming and parasite-prevention goes. Any more I just might get called crazy! I think it's just like with anyone else on here, you can't prevent everything, but you can take measures to do your best at it and that is what I've done with her.
> ...


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Emilyy said:


> Sorry, every OTHER year, she has only been tube wormed once, and that was when I got her because she had not been taken care of. This is what my vet practices. I've never had a horse react badly to it.



Ok now i'm confused:? Tube worm I'm guessing you mean done with nasogastric tube by vet?? ok she's been done only once since you have had her.... I'm hoping she has had more than that,so how about other kind of worming like tube/syringe PASTE wormer does she get?& how often?


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> Ok now i'm confused:? Tube worm I'm guessing you mean done with nasogastric tube by vet?? ok she's been done only once since you have had her.... I'm hoping she has had more than that,so how about other kind of worming like tube/syringe PASTE wormer does she get?& how often?


Yes, only once. It was just Ivermectin in liquid form.

I have also used a PowerPac on her. Again, I've only had her for a year. 

I also deworm every six weeks, in the spring I use Moxidectin, summer pyrantel, fall and winter months I use Ivermectin. I also use a tapewormer in december like quest plus or equimax.

What is your suggestion, paintedpastures? And what are you confused about? This schedule has worked for me, and I have done fec counts, blood counts, you name it. I will be doing more when my vet comes out, however. Thanks


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Ok powerpac is good. You did a huge tube everyday for 5 days right? That will get rid of the worms that will not show up in a fecal. But it should be done once a year unless she's on a daily dewormer. Add grain to her diet. You need to feed grain PLUS all she can eat hay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

poppy1356 said:


> Ok powerpac is good. You did a huge tube everyday for 5 days right? That will get rid of the worms that will not show up in a fecal. But it should be done once a year unless she's on a daily dewormer. Add grain to her diet. You need to feed grain PLUS all she can eat hay.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yep, five days straight! She hated it! Lol

But I will be going today to pick up some JuniorGlo! Thanks everyone for the feedback!
-Emily


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Emilyy said:


> Yep, five days straight! She hated it! Lol
> 
> But I will be going today to pick up some JuniorGlo! Thanks everyone for the feedback!
> -Emily


How long ago did you do that? Good luck with the new feed. I hope it works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Emilyy said:


> Yes, only once. It was just Ivermectin in liquid form.
> 
> I have also used a PowerPac on her. Again, I've only had her for a year.
> 
> ...


Nothing now You finally gave the info  The problem was You made it sound like you wormed only once a year:shock:,I was trying to get clarification about that!


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

FaydesMom said:


> Why is there not a /facepalm smilie on this forum?? Doesn't anybody read any more. The horse is NOT on "hay only"... oh, never mind. I give up.
> 
> OP, good luck to you with your hard keeper. Just keep doing what you are doing, working with your vet and slowly upping everything you are giving her until you find the amounts she needs to be fat and slick!
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


 Why isn't there a DISLIKE button?


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Emilyy said:


> paintedpastures said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, every OTHER year, she has only been tube wormed once, and that was when I got her because she had not been taken care of. This is what my vet practices. I've never had a horse react badly to it.
> ...


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Emilyy said:


> Yes, only once. It was just Ivermectin in liquid form.
> 
> I have also used a PowerPac on her. Again, I've only had her for a year.
> 
> ...


 Make up your mind. How are we to understand what you are doing when it changes every post. No wonder we are confused.


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## StellaIW (Feb 5, 2012)

paintedpastures said:


> Nothing now You finally gave the info  The problem was You made it sound like you wormed only once a year:shock:,I was trying to get clarification about that!


Over here we only deworm if it is needed. (We have to show the vet an analysis of a fecal test in order to get any kinds of dewormers) 
My mare has not been dewormed in five years - she has no need for it.

Are you not afraid the worms will become resistant when you deworm so often?


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

StellaIW said:


> Over here we only deworm if it is needed. (We have to show the vet an analysis of a fecal test in order to get any kinds of dewormers)
> My mare has not been dewormed in five years - she has no need for it.
> 
> Are you not afraid the worms will become resistant when you deworm so often?


As stated before fecal tests are not accurate. Here it would be unheard of not to worm regularly and yes resistancy is a concern


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

churumbeque said:


> As stated before fecal tests are not accurate.


Haven't read through the whole thread, sorry - why are fecal tests not accurate? I'd love to know because some people do quarterly fecal tests and worm accordingly so that the horse is only wormed as necessary - the theory of course being that they would therefore not build up (as much of) a resistance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> Haven't read through the whole thread, sorry - why are fecal tests not accurate? I'd love to know because some people do quarterly fecal tests and worm accordingly so that the horse is only wormed as necessary - the theory of course being that they would therefore not build up (as much of) a resistance.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As stated before they do not test for the worms that regular dewormer does not kill. Therefor not an accurate way to deworm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Terre (Oct 23, 2011)

You can also call ADM and tell them about her and they will set you up with a feed program. I did this with my guy and they helped me out. She is very pretty.


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## Emilyy (Apr 4, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> Make up your mind. How are we to understand what you are doing when it changes every post. No wonder we are confused.



I've stated what I need to tell everyone, NOTHING has changed.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I deworm twice a year, spring and autumn to kill tape worm and encycsted red worm.
I do fecal counts once in winter and once in summer. and I never use the same wormers twice in a row

This is the way that the top equine vet hospitals in the UK are teaching at the moment as the safest way to worm to get all the worms but not build up resistance in the worms.

We cant use panacur round here as the worms are resistant


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

faye said:


> I deworm twice a year, spring and autumn to kill tape worm and encycsted red worm.
> I do fecal counts once in winter and once in summer. and I never use the same wormers twice in a row
> 
> This is the way that the top equine vet hospitals in the UK are teaching at the moment as the safest way to worm to get all the worms but not build up resistance in the worms.
> ...


Well if we had a way to do a fecal that would show all of the worms including encysted strongyles then that would obviously be the best but that is not the case. Also panacur and panacur powerpac are not the same thing which a lot of people seem to get confused about. 

But I believe the op in on the right track with getting new food.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

A fecal egg count will only show the eggs - so if the worms are not producing eggs at the time that the count is conducted, they're not going to show up. 

I know of a horse that was wormed regularly and has regular FEC's done, and came down with a shocking case of colic. The vet found, upon opening her up, that she had an incredibly huge worm burden, of encycsted red worms, that had not shown up in fecal counts, and as such the owners did not worm for them.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

poppy i know fecals cant test for encysted red worm or for tape worm hence my horses get wormed in spring and autumn to which is the best time to kill them. I also religiously poo pick my paddocks and cross graze to minimise the chance of worms in my paddock

we do not have pancur powerpac over here however it is the chemical that is the active in panacur that the worms are resistant to, so you could pump your horse full of them but it wont kill the worms.

We have a limited number of drugs that kill worms, constant over worming is leading worms to become immune to them. what do we do when they are resistant to all of them?


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

faye said:


> poppy i know fecals cant test for encysted red worm or for tape worm hence my horses get wormed in spring and autumn to which is the best time to kill them. I also religiously poo pick my paddocks and cross graze to minimise the chance of worms in my paddock
> 
> we do not have pancur powerpac over here however it is the chemical that is the active in panacur that the worms are resistant to, so you could pump your horse full of them but it wont kill the worms.
> 
> We have a limited number of drugs that kill worms, constant over worming is leading worms to become immune to them. what do we do when they are resistant to all of them?


Well it's the same as humans getting resistant to overuse of antibiotics. I just had a bad case of worms with my rescue horse that should have been taken care of prior to adoption. So I try to really stress that not all dewormer is the same. But prevention is key to anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

As with humans.....preventing resistence is key. Resistence comes from wrong dosage of product when not necessarily needed. You need to be sure you are providing the correct dosage and not UNDER-dosing and by always doing the length of time instructed. Never say....my horse is sick, I have some left over antibiotic....I will give him it for a day or two just because.


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