# Critique this possible buy?



## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Sorry, I know that I've got like a zillion different threads up say just as many thing- look at this horse, what about that one... It's just there are so many horses and none have really been right so far. I think I'm going to end up camping out here and in the horses for sale forum, ok? We'll all get to know each other real well. :lol:

So, this boy's ad was on Craigslist today, and I decided to toss out a line on him and see if him might be decent. At the price he's listed as, I wouldn't be adverse to putting some time and work in on him and either keeping him as my own, or trying to sell him in a year or two at a small profit (probably just to a home looking for a trail horse or local show horse). 

So we've got a 5 year old 16hh grade gelding that's broke, currently being ridden by a beginner and doing fine with her. No special training on him, occasionally ridden near traffic with no signs of spooking. Good ground manners, no vices (though at one time he was said to threaten to nip while eating following a period of neglect, no recent signs of the behavior). Never really had anything special done with him, just been a good horse. 

What I think about him is that:
He's a "broke" 5 year old. In my mind a 5 year old warrants green status, because he's not had time to really have been there and done that. We've got two at the barn that are both 7 now, one's dead safe, no spook that we have no problems with putting kids on, and the other is in no way safe for a child- and it's all in their heads, because they've got about the same amount of training. Sure the kids can't get a great collected ride out of the safe one, but they can have a good time on him. If he's got a good head on him I'd consider him, and it sounds like he might, have to meet him to know. 

I also know that he'll need work- he's always been a pet horse before, and I'd be using him for shows, so that means plenty of time in the saddle. I'll have weekly lessons and have my (very experienced) instructor to help, as well as I could possibly take lessons with a nearby trainer to work on him as well. My current lease has been a project, and we've turned out pretty well, so I'm not opposed to it. Meeting him and seeing just how much work he will need is key- does he just need tuning, or does he have major issues to work on? I can handle tuning and small stuff. Major issues would bump him off the list. 

I'm not sure about his conformation, as I suck at judging a horse, but he looks halfway decent to my eye, though I don't have great picture to judge from yet. I'll let you all tell me about him. His back legs especially I want to hear about, he looks like he toes out? How does that effect the movement and soundness? From what little you can see, does he look like a decent western prospect? 


These are the picture that I've gotten so far, most are from when the seller first bought him, and he was still skinny. I think he's still going to need to toning and groceries, but the two that have him unsaddled show his current weight. 


















































Video and better photos hopefully to come soon.


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

ok, now another possibility for you to look at:

15 hh 8 year old bay roan mare, currently used for trails and started on some gaming. Very level headed, willing, laid back no spook. Cow bred- HERDA and HYPP status unknown (no Impressive or Poco Bueno in her though). Has a lot more training than the gelding. 


























She's more than the gelding, but she's also worth more, with better training and being registered. Still nicely under budget. Have to see if she'll collect up and go in for a pleasure class... but I think she's the better horse out of these two.


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

I like the gelding. He looks running bred to me. If you don't get him sent him my way please!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

The gelding: He is presumably green and has the lack of muscle to prove it. He has a sweet sweet face, and I bet he is a kind boy. He has a HUGE shoulder that is pretty upright; I am betting he is maybe a Saddlebred cross, or some other gaited type. He will have very upward, round gaits, so if that is your style, cool beans. His bum is nicely angled as well. I do not much like his neck or front pasterns, but they are not a deal breaker. Could use some work on those duck bill toes he has going! Overall he looks like a real sweety, and when muscled up, could be very very functional. 

The mare: She is downhill, pigeon breasted and her neck is pretty nested in there.. but alas, she is a cow horse; she was bred to look like this! I am not a big fan of her front half, though she seems pretty accurately built for cutting. Her hocks are a bit high set, as expected, and she is light in bone. Honestly I think if you are looking for a lower level cow horse she would be fine, but otherwise she is pretty limited. Don't think she would do very well in a pleasure class, though perhaps open show level she might be fine. 

Overall I think the better constructed horse for all-around riding is the gelding. 

Cheers,
RSS


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

Send*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

RunSlideStop said:


> The gelding: He is presumably green and has the lack of muscle to prove it. He has a sweet sweet face, and I bet he is a kind boy. He has a HUGE shoulder that is pretty upright; I am betting he is maybe a Saddlebred cross, or some other gaited type. He will have very upward, round gaits, so if that is your style, cool beans. His bum is nicely angled as well. I do not much like his neck or front pasterns, but they are not a deal breaker. Could use some work on those duck bill toes he has going! Overall he looks like a real sweety, and when muscled up, could be very very functional.
> 
> The mare: She is downhill, pigeon breasted and her neck is pretty nested in there.. but alas, she is a cow horse; she was bred to look like this! I am not a big fan of her front half, though she seems pretty accurately built for cutting. Her hocks are a bit high set, as expected, and she is light in bone. Honestly I think if you are looking for a lower level cow horse she would be fine, but otherwise she is pretty limited. Don't think she would do very well in a pleasure class, though perhaps open show level she might be fine.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much! I just can't look at a horse and tell what it was bred for, so it's wonderful to have all of you here to tell me these things. 

A cutting horse I do not need, so her build may knock her out. She's got more training of the two, but all the training in the world won't help me if she is limited by her bones. The way that the seller talks she's a good girl, but they've geared her more towards gaming and possibly cows, so I don't really know about her. I love her head, she has a very kind face, but nothing really stood out. 


As for the gelding, I really liked his butt as soon as I saw a good picture of him. I just love the chunky qh butt! Now that you've said saddlebred, I can kind of see it in his front end, though you've got me scared that when his videos come alone he's going to have a lot of knee action, or move funky. I've got to see him move, that's for sure.
His pasterns are a bit long, is that what you've mean? Would this be something that could potentially effect soundness in the long run? His feet concern me in general, I would definitely have a farrier out if I purchased him. As for his neck, what have you spotted?


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## Jewelsb (May 8, 2012)

He just has a long neck kind of skinny neck. I personally don't mind his neck. I'd like to see his pasterns in person to see how long they really are. I really don't see saddlebred but then again I'd have to see him move. He is a nice horse. He looks like he might be narrow in the front end. Will they send you a straight on pic of his front end?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Got ya. I saw an underworked neck lacking muscle, but unwanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something. Will the length have any negative effect on him? He's pretty skinny in those pics, but yeah, he does look a bit narrow, though I think with the work I'll be doing with him he should be ok. My big concern is how well he take up my leg. My current mare is so thin that I just can't find her under me. T_T 
I can see a bit of saddlebred in his shoulder, but the rest pretty well says quarter horse to me. Would not be surprised by a saddlebred/qh cross though, both breeds are amongst the most common around here. 

I need pictures and video of him... Seller is try to get them by tomorrow, so hopefully that will tell more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't know if anyone else agrees BUT, the gelding, though the better choice of the 2 horses, has some weakness in his back that I don't care for. It won't matter with light work, but I noticed that the first pic (front on shot) shows him re-balancing with his back legs to accommodate the rider's weight. IF you buy him and start working him hard, he might not hold up. Corporal (1982-2009, RIP) had this problem, but, being an Arab, the rest of him compensated for it.
I like my QH's build. (He is NOT registered, btw.)























Look for balance, shorter cannons that the upper leg, a horse that naturally stands with his back feet underneath him--the picture of the roan mare shows her camped-out. You should also look for no "waisted in". Some geldings are, and many mares are waisted in, and it will show up as a weak back. If I could change things on MY QH, I'd give him a longer neck.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Agreed, his neck is just long and skinny, not my cup o tea 

His pasterns are longer than normal, but if he is indeed Saddlebred (cross), this is normal. He should be fine. 

Kner action: who knows. He will move more upright and round than a WP horse, and that is not a bad thing; it could be easier to get him working from behind that way. 

Awaiting video


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Weakness in the back can be improved through gymnastics: ground poles, cavaletties, lots of backing up, etc. So, I agree with Corporal and think it is a problem that can be improved.


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Well, the mare's out for sure, at least. The seller was nice, and willing to answer a few questions, but evasive and pressuring me to come see her, rather than sending decent pictures or video. Something felt off, and I wasn't about to stick around to find out what. Ever get that vibe, the one that says run, even if you don't know why? 

As for the gelding, are we kind of coming to a conclusion that his conformation is a bit funky, and he may not really stay sound in regular work, or be able to do well with regular riding? Or are we just hashing out his faults, and how we feel about them, and he has pretty good potential overall? I'm kinda feeling that it's the first one, and I'd like to hear what you really think about him. He's priced as $900 obo, with the seller mentioning specifically that the price is negotiable to me...which is great, but if his conformation is all funky and limits him, I'm thinking that might cut into what I can do with him , and I don't want to end up with a retired 8 year old or something...


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Ok, so... I received a message from the seller of the gelding saying that he had been sold back to the previous owner. Bummer

So on the show moves! 

Tell me what you think of this boy? I'm thinking his back legs look a bit off, but I'm not quite sure if he stands under himself or if he's sickle hocked or what. He's one of the nicer looking boys that I've found... but then again, I'm surfing Craigslist here- so you never know what will turn up. I just wish that they had taken the saddle off for his shots. 
Handsome Palomino Gelding Prospect


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Hmm.. he looks built for the halter fad with those post legs. For WP he might do well; he is pretty balanced and but for his post legs seems built for the job. His legs could cause soundness issues in the future, but seeing as how I have never dealt with WP horses specifically in the long run, that is purely speculation. 

He is worth a look if you just want a steady WP or trail horse. Would like to see a video of him.


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

I love his upper body, and then his legs... aren't the worse I've seen, I think, but still make me go hmmm. I'm not sure how they would effect him long term either. Is that all that going on there, he's just post legged, or are there other faults as well? I keep going back and forth, in one he looks camped under (facing left), and in the other he doesn't (facing right)- so which one is correct? Facing the left or right? 

Waiting to see video and will send it on to my instructor to see what she thinks.


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Video just came in... 





I see a horse that needs work, though he may settle down and make a decent pleasure horse one day. Nothing that's going to rock the western pleasure world, and not something that I would be willing to spend $2500 on, which is his current asking price. He may do ok in hunt seat classes, I think he would be decent at the local level as an all around horse. 

Would you say that you would agree or disagree with those thoughts? What do you see in him?


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Oh boy. Bless his heart, he is a sweet little guy.

I wish the rider would quit leaning on his shoulder..

Looking at his pics again amd watching this, he seems knock kneed, and/or toed out. He has a very exaggerated movement in his front legs which, I assume because his legs aren't straight, makes it hard for him to move. He looks unbalanced and stiff as well, but this could be the rider. 

His hind end isn't going to improve. He has a real hard time getting under himself because of the angle of his hocks and pasterns, and this puts him on his (probably ouchie) forehand. 

In the picture facing right, he stands "parked out." To me, he almost seems like he is a gaited cross from the way he flings his feet out to the side, bobs his head, and stands funny. But alas, I think what is REALLY going on here is the product of poor breeding. He is cute, but I think his conformation is going to get you marked down and maybe lame in the future. 

Sad, but I would pass, despite his cute face.


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Yeah, the video just kind of sealed that he wasn't really going to work for me. I do feel bad for him, he really seems to be willing to work and has the sweetest face, but all that can't make up for his faults. They said that he's been in work four days a week since he came to the barn, and I just can't help but wonder what it's doing for him. 

Pass on him, though I do hope that he can find a new home that can help him reach his potential. 

I need for something to come up on the big horse sites... I have yet to find a decent horse in my price range on one of them, and well, you all have seen what Craigslist turns up.... Of course, I have folks locally helping me search (which is probably where I'm going to find a horse- though one of those connections), but I like to just sift though the listing about once a week to see if anything pops up. 
The patience game, I'm not good at it. The right one will come along eventually...


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## commonfish (Jan 2, 2011)

Just an update to say that I have found my horse! My instructor left me a message to call her a few days ago about a prospect, and we went to see him today. I loved him! Hopefully we can get everything sorted out and official soon, so that he can come home.


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