# Patience are running thin- TIPS PLEASE



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

During this retraining period, you may want to keep a leather crowned halter on your horse, even in the pasture. Generally I think it unsafe to leave a halter on a horse outside because I know of horses that have become entangled when trying to scratch an ear with a hind foot. I've also heard of a horse that hooked his halter on a gate latch and got hung up. Thankfully, it happened as people were standing there and was quickly released. Leather halters, or halters with breakaway crowns are safer if the horse becomes entangled. 
If you want to be able to catch your horse you will have to convince it that being caught doesn’t always lead to discomfort or work. You’ll do this by spending time with your horse that doesn’t involve any of what it perceives as negative experiences. 
Start by visiting in the pasture. Clean up manure, check for fences; anything but approach your horse. If your horse approaches you, don’t reach out and try to catch it. Just let it approach, perhaps sniff at you and then _you_ walk away. Don’t let your horse walk away from you. You always want to be the final decision-maker in any exchange with your horse. Several brief visits a day will be more effective than the occasional long visit. 
When trying to approach your horse don’t march up to it full of purpose and intent, it will read your body language and think ‘oh, oh, something is up’. Instead soften your body language, meander towards your horse. Don’t make direct eye contact. Don’t approach head or tail on. Use your peripheral vision and approach at the neck or shoulder. 
If the horse allows you to get near enough to catch it spend a little time doing something enjoyable like scratching, massaging or brushing. Use your knowledge of what your horse likes. Again when you are done, don’t let your horse conclude the exchange. Decide when you are done, unhook the lead rope, make the horse stand, and walk away from the horse. 
If your horse only runs away when it sees you coming with a halter and lead rope, then always approach it with a halter and lead over your shoulder. You have to teach your horse that the appearance of the halter and lead does not mean you are going to lead it in to work. 
Bribing your horse with treats is only a short-term solution to your problem. Treating a horse, especially if there are other horses in the pasture can get dangerous. If the pasture herd learns that you always come out with treats in your pocket you could get hurt as they jostle each other to get the hand out. You want to be able to catch your horse without carrying out a bucket or a carrot. 
If your horse will absolutely not allow you to get near enough to catch it, you’ll have to carve out some free, open-ended time and have your horse in a small paddock or yard. A round pen is too small and a large pasture will work only if you don’t mind walking for miles. 
When you approach your horse and you know it will run away from you, keep it moving. Use a longe whip as an extension of your arm to cue the horse to move forward. The best gait is a smart trot. At the beginning your horse may act like this is fun —and gallop, buck and kick. Let him play and he will settle. He may try to stop. He may even try to approach you at some point. But don’t let the horse make those decisions. If the horse tries to stop tell it clearly and firmly to TROT. 
Ask your horse to HALT—or whoa or whatever term you use consistently after you see that he is beginning to pay attention to you. He may start looking towards you, flicking his ears, or lowering his head. When he is working steadily around you at the trot that is the time to ask for a halt. When he does as you ask, praise him and send him on his way. Do this a few times so you know you are getting a consistent reaction to your command. 
When you see that the horse is halting obediently on command, drop your whip and approach him. If the horse stands quietly praise, scratch or pat and walk away. Send him out at a trot again. Repeat the process until you know the horse will stand and wait for you. 
Only after you know the horse will stand should you attempt to catch the horse. If he ducks away from you send him on his way and repeat the process. You need to convince him that standing to be caught is more comfortable than running away. (You are not trying to run him to exhaustion.) 
If he does stand for you make sure there is a reward at the end of the lesson. Put a lead rope on him and lead him to a treat in a bucket, do a little grooming or massage. And then turn him loose in his pasture. The next time you have a moment visit him in the pasture or paddock. Let him learn that your appearance does not mean he has to go to work or suffer discomfort. Tip: Friendly horses in your paddocks might help you out. If they will walk up to you for pats and scratches, your hard to catch horse will see their behavior and may imitate them. 
Jealousy can also help.....pet and play with another horse in the pasture, completely ignoring your horse until she comes up to you willingly. Then give her the same attention you were giving the other horse.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Lots of people will disagree here, but CHASE HIM. I've done this with TONS of horses and it worked wonders for all of them. Just walk up to him like normal, and the SECOND he turns away, run at him. It makes it your idea. Your tricking him, he thought he was all clever running away from you, but now you are chasing him and making him work. That just isn't any fun. Look for the signs of a "join up" [licking and chewing, lowering his head, keeping his ears on you, basically showing signs he wants to stop] and let him. Walk up to him and if tries to turn away again, send him off. It WORKS, there are tons of people out there against it for whatever reason, but it WORKS so I don't see why you shouldn't try it.

Once you catch him, it's up to you what to do next. You can halter him and walk him to cool down, give him lots of treats, lots of affection, a good grooming, or just a pat and leave him along, whatever you think he'll enjoy the most. Repeat the process when necessary.


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## dacer44 (Sep 20, 2009)

This is from a book that I have been reading.. don't know if it works but there is a huge section in it about this. 

She says if treats, trying to corner him etc doesn't work then to try this. 
Fill a coffee can with sweet feed just to get something that rattles and to walk into the middle of the pasture he is in and rattle it and call your horse at the same time. If he runs off, don't follow. Give him three chances to come to you. If that doesn't work then you go to plan B. 
Bring back the can of feed, a chair, and something to do (book, magazine, cell phone) because apparently it could take a while. Put his halter under the chair. Then you sit down and read and don't look at him. (you would probably want your horse alone in the pasture for this). It says eventually he will walk over to you because horses are naturally curious. But don't move just allow him to sniff you and check everything out. He may even back off but he'll come back. The second time he comes give him your "come command" and a handful of feed and tell him he was good. The next time he comes up to you tell him to come and then just reward him with your voice. This time stand up slowly and drape the lead rope around his neck. If he slides away hold on to lead rope and sit down but he'll come right back. Now with you holding the lead rope draped around his neck repeat the steps by asking him to come and feed or reward him. Basically it says to get him to associated coming to you with a treat. It says you may need to repeat this but the process should get shorter each time. 

Like I said i've never tried this but hopefully it will work. 2 hours sounds stressful! Good luck!


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

I've tried the jealousy move, He has four girlfriends out there, and a gelding that he's not to fond of, and I'll get all of his girls with me and let them eat out of the bucket, then I'll go to the gelding and he'll look at me and nicker like "that's my food, don't give that to him" but he wont do anything, he just stands there.

I bring people out there that he's not familiar with and even they have a problem, I know its just a game that he's playing because I've seen signs of licking and chewing and his ears facing me, but he doesnt know the term "Game over" Once i do finally catch him, he's calm as can be, it just gets aggrivating sometimes.


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## SavvyHearts (Sep 29, 2009)

I personally have never found any of Clinton Anderson's methods to work at all, at least not with my horses. I threw away my book that I had and my one DVD.

There are many reasons why a horse will be hard to catch
1) frightened
2) you're the evil work monster
3) something happens when he's out or he thinks something will happen
(just to name a few)
By sniffing a bucket of food and walking away, I would say it's not number 1....and it doesn't seem to be number 3
So that leaves 2

How many times do you sit with your horse and just do nothing? Like literally sit and do nothing for the whole day while you hand graze him? Alot of catching problems that I find is that the horse learns that when being taken out of the pasture, he is going to get worked or whatever.
My suggestion is to just sit in the pasture...ignore him...read a book draw, etc. Let him get curious and approach you. Do this for a couple days then see if he'll allow you to take him out. If he does, HAND GRAZE him and put him back then leave for the day. If not then just hang in the pasture with him...let him know that being with you does not always mean work


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

He knows that I'm not the "work monster" most days, I'll sit there and just let him graze or I'll give him cookies and bathe him, and brush him. 

Even if its one of his work days, I spend an hour grooming him, spending time with him, then its work time, i just don't throw him out when I'm done, most of the time I feed him outside of the field and I'll brush him and let him graze and eat his feed. 
So he knows that I'm not all in for the work. And every time i do catch him, he gets his favorite cookie treats, so most of the time, he's being spoiled and not worked. 
And he knows I do not believe in harsh punishment, because of his abusive background with his previous owners, so when it does take an hour to catch him, I praise him when i do bring him in from catching him, instead of making a scene and increasing the chances of not being able to catch him again.


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## SavvyHearts (Sep 29, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Lots of people will disagree here, but CHASE HIM. I've done this with TONS of horses and it worked wonders for all of them. Just walk up to him like normal, and the SECOND he turns away, run at him. It makes it your idea. Your tricking him, he thought he was all clever running away from you, but now you are chasing him and making him work. That just isn't any fun. Look for the signs of a "join up" [licking and chewing, lowering his head, keeping his ears on you, basically showing signs he wants to stop] and let him. Walk up to him and if tries to turn away again, send him off. It WORKS, there are tons of people out there against it for whatever reason, but it WORKS so I don't see why you shouldn't try it.
> 
> Once you catch him, it's up to you what to do next. You can halter him and walk him to cool down, give him lots of treats, lots of affection, a good grooming, or just a pat and leave him along, whatever you think he'll enjoy the most. Repeat the process when necessary.


I do not agree at all with chasing him. If a horse does not want to be with you, like in this case, chasing him will serve no purpose other than to finally "give up". You don't want him to just give up and tolerate being caught..you want the horse to WANT to be caught, to WANT to be with you.
A good leader won't always work a horse...if you go up 5 times a week, spend one of those days just hanging out...and doing "undemanding" time.


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## SavvyHearts (Sep 29, 2009)

chelssss(: said:


> He knows that I'm not the "work monster" most days, I'll sit there and just let him graze or I'll give him cookies and bathe him, and brush him.


you think he knows...but how do you know? Not letting you catch him does not show to me that he doesn't think your the "work monster". Not trying to be rude at all, but what is he thinking when he walks away from you? he's just walking, not running so he's not afraid of you.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

oh those TB's huh? I think there is some great advice on here and definitely from people who know a lot more than me but I just rescued a TB who is also a dream but his 1-2 problem areas are/were pretty big problems. What has worked for me is just getting over all respect. Maybe don't treat this as an isolated "hard to catch" problem. My boy wouldn't stand still in the cross ties or wash rack but was perfect under saddle or leading. For a long time I treated it like these were his only problems and worked on having him stand in the ties or rack, fighting the battle over and over. I gave up on that, started doing more ground work, really making him very sensitive to me and understanding that I am in charge (in a completely non-harsh or abusive way, just getting him to move his feet, change gates, etc absolutely no yelling or hitting) and what do you know a week later I have him in the cross-ties like it was never an issue. Some days he still tests me- he's a TB through and through but getting his respect has made a world of difference, turning our huge battles into 20 second testing on his part. Good luck.


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

I don't know what all he went through in his past, I try everything I can think of with this situation, And i have been able to walk up to him and he has walked up to me before, but other days he just runs. Today I walked out there, called his name, and he nickered and he walked up to me.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

SavvyHearts said:


> I do not agree at all with chasing him. If a horse does not want to be with you, like in this case, chasing him will serve no purpose other than to finally "give up". You don't want him to just give up and tolerate being caught..you want the horse to WANT to be caught, to WANT to be with you.
> A good leader won't always work a horse...if you go up 5 times a week, spend one of those days just hanging out...and doing "undemanding" time.


That's the argument I always get, it gets really old. My mare didn't like to be caught for whatever reason, so I took a day and chased her. It made it MY idea, asserting MY dominance. She realized it was easier to just be with me than not be with me. She didn't "give up," she wasn't "beaten into submission," she made a choice to be with me. How is it any different than the Monty Roberts "Join up?" It's not, it's a great way to establish your role in the relationship, as well as gaining trust and respect.

I worked with a mare who wouldn't only run away, but KICKED when you tried to catch her. Keep in mind, this horse didn't work, she wasn't ridden, she was groomed. But she did NOT want to leave her buddies in the pasture. So yes, she dared to spin her *** at me and she got whacked so hard she'll never forget. And I chased her. And it worked.

That's just two stories. I have tons more. Have you any experience with this method? If you don't, how do you know it won't work, or that it doesn't help or accomplish anything? I never said other methods won't work, because I'm sure they do, but I guarantee they will take longer.

Horses need discipline, not just praise when they do something good, although the praise is very important, but there has to be a consequence for his actions. By sitting there and reading, you are not telling your horse it's bad to run away, just that it's good to be with you. Yes, it's good to be with you, but if he doesn't want your company, it's entirely possible he'll start running away again, because he doesn't know that that's the wrong thing to do. You are the boss, and he has to do what he's told, period. If a child doesn't do his chores, he gets punished. You don't wait until he does them and just praise.


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## RoosterDo (Feb 11, 2009)

When you chase a horse who doesnt want to be caught you are telling him that not getting caught means he has to work but getting caught means he doesnt have to work he gets to hang out. You are making the wrong thing not being with you hard and the right thing being with you easy. I agree riccilove


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

chelssss(: said:


> I don't know what all he went through in his past, I try everything I can think of with this situation, And i have been able to walk up to him and he has walked up to me before, but other days he just runs. Today I walked out there, called his name, and he nickered and he walked up to me.


The fact that he only runs away sometimes suggests to me that it is entirely a game to him. If you chase him, it won't be HIS game anymore, it'll be YOUR game, and it's not as fun. You've made the game something else entirely and therefore discourages him from trying again. Respect is key, you are the boss, period. How do horses in the wild get what they want from another horse? They chase each other! They kick and bite and thrash and then they're buddies. Try it, please, I'm not full of crap. =]


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

RoosterDo said:


> When you chase a horse who doesnt want to be caught you are telling him that not getting caught means he has to work but getting caught means he doesnt have to work he gets to hang out. You are making the wrong thing not being with you hard and the right thing being with you easy. I agree riccilove


Thank god I'm not alone! Haha.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I agree with riccilove. You definately have to be careful what type of horse you use this method on, obviously if the horse is blatantly scared of you this is not the method to use. But you've described the exact type of horse this method works on - he simply doesn't FEEL like working today, so you can just shove it up your ****. He's blatantly disrespecting you. I've used the "chase" method before and on these types of horses, it always works. Eventually they get bored, realize this isn't fun anymore and they're working anyway and give up. You're basically turning their avoidance of you into YOUR choice - theoretically, you aren't actually chasing them since they're running away anyway, but it switches it around in their mind. Suddenly walking away from you has turned into a much harder workout in the effort to stay away from you, and just not worth it anymore.

Shay-la uses this method on her hard to catch mare in a 10 acre pasture. She definately has to work for it, and it's actually more of a join-up method she uses - she positions herself so she always seems to be "in the way" and makes Cinder turn and disengage her hindquarters. If Cinder does boot it hard and get past her, she promptly chases her until she's again in a position to start "ducking" manevours around her to turn her.

The longest it's ever taken her is 10 minutes. As soon as the rest of the herd gets bored of the game, they start grazing and Cinder starts circling them. Within a matter of minutes, it's stopped being fun and she quietly stands so Shay-la can walk up to her.

We always find these ultimate ulterior motives for a hard to catch horse, but in my opinion, hard to catch horses are the smart ones - if YOU figure out you could avoid work and keep grazing by simply walking away, wouldn't you? A lot of horses never figure this out because they're programmed from birth with humans being dominant - typically it's the smarter ones that figure out humans are not infallible and they really don't HAVE to listen. By using a very dominant maneuvour on them out in the pasture, you're teaching them that regardless of how far away you are, regardless of WHERE you are, you still reign supreme and they simply can't win.

Best of luck!


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

It's called a simple bucket of feed, lol.

Sorry, I have the same problem with our pony mutt and I always eventually give in to the old-fashioned feed bucket trick.

But besides that, I do prefer the run till they give in trick. It works with others and dosen't for others, so I guess it's that 'it various per horse' kind of ordeal :/

CHASE? No. SEND? Yes.

No chasing. You more send the horse away from you until they want to stop. It might sound similar, but it's different in my eyes.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Sunny06 said:


> It's called a simple bucket of feed, lol.


I think she already said that he just walks up to it and then walks away. it might not have been in the first post. 

For a couple of days when my TB tried to do that, I SORT of chased him....It was more of a herding thing (I've seen my shelties do it to pretty much anything that runs) but I really just followed him anywhere he walked away from me not really making a big deal out of it, all while moving him towards the front of the pasture. After a few minutes he stopped and let me catch him, and now its to the point where I don't even have to walk back to get him, he hears my voice and starts walking up!

As for the reason for "chasing" horses, its a reverse psychology thing....if you "chase" them away from you, you're excluding them from your herd, and since horses are herd bound animals.....eventually he'll turn around and ask to be included.


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Thank god I'm not alone! Haha.


LoL....actually....I did this over the summer, too. Annie was moved to my dad's in May and was alone all summer. In June I noticed she was making getting a halter put on into a game. I say "game" because this horse has had a life of leisure so far - VERY light riding, nonstop affection, treats, etc. She is actually not a really fearful horse, either (just be careful with fly spray :wink. She was acting outright silly when I approached her with a halter. And we weren't even "working" at the time...just occassional ground manners, then an hour of eating tasty lawn grass.

I really think that being alone for the first time in her life was boring her to death. 

One day I was watching her prance around when I was trying to get her halter on and got fed up. I thought, "If you want to play, let's play." So I stomped my feet at her and ran towards her. She perked her ears forward, shook her head side to side, and pranced off into the pasture. I didn't follow, just waited for her to come back. We did this for a full hour. By the end of it, she walked right up to me and let me put the halter on her. The next time I went out, it was a half hour of this. The next time, 5 minutes, and after that I guess she was over it, because now she just stands and waits for her halter to be put on. 

_However, _like Macabre said, I would be careful of doing this with all horses. If I did this with the horse I just got (abused, fearful), I think it would be awful.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I would suggest you get Parelli's Natural Attraction DVD from the Success Series. That's an excellent one, and should help you.

Sometimes it can be appropriate to chase your horse. Not in a mean way, but like, "You wanna leave? Great, let me help you!" kind of way. MAKE IT A GAME! If the horse is TRULY confident and he's just blowing you off, this can really work. There are days where I'll just go play "tag" with my horse out in the pasture, I don't even think about haltering, but this is only on his more independent days where he really needs me to do something unpredictable to get his attention and his play drive up! Confident horses need us to be predictably unpredictable! lol.

However, it's up to you to figure out WHY he's blowing you off in the first place. Usually, with confident horses, it's because the human is boring and he sees no reason to come because his herd is much more interesting. So now it's up to the human to be VERY provocative, unpredictable and imaginative to get this horse to WANT to come.


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## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

riccil0ve said:


> Thank god I'm not alone! Haha.


If any one of my horse's doesn't stand still and accept the halter then those feet get moving and they don't stop until I say so. There will be no grain buckets, no treats feed by hand, nothing! 

My older one, George who is second in command, behind me, tries this at least once every spring. I walk out to the field and no way is he standing still. So off he goes and he keeps going until he turns and faces me. At that point I walk up to him again, if he stands I put the halter on lead him to the gate and then take the halter off and leave the field and go on with my day. If he moves, off he goes again. 



> However, it's up to you to figure out WHY he's blowing you off in the first place. Usually, with confident horses, it's because the human is boring and he sees no reason to come because his herd is much more interesting. So now it's up to the human to be VERY provocative, unpredictable and imaginative to get this horse to WANT to come.


I agree with this. They shrug you off bascially because they don't deem you worthy to be with. Your not the leader, you don't give them the same security they get from their herd mates.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

RoosterDo said:


> When you chase a horse who doesnt want to be caught you are telling him that not getting caught means he has to work but getting caught means he doesnt have to work he gets to hang out. You are making the wrong thing not being with you hard and the right thing being with you easy. I agree riccilove


That's what I would do also.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> I would suggest you get Parelli's Natural Attraction DVD from the Success Series. That's an excellent one, and should help you.
> 
> .


WOW That's a suprise!!!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Lacey was impossible to catch when I first got her so I used a combination of the chasing mentioned before along with body blocking, the lead rope wrapped around her neck once I caught her, and a treat in my hand as soon as her nose went through the halter. 

I'm sure that those methods aren't going to work for every horse but it worked great for her. The other day she actually walked away from her breakfast and up to me even though she knew that I was going to catch her. 
I also found that the chasing thing didn't really work as well for her as it had with other horses I've used it on. In her case, she could care less about running as long as she was still with her buddies. Your horse may not be like that but with her I've ended up learning how to body block her from half the field away, basically like I'm a cow horse separating a cow from a herd. I can stop her and hold her by copying her movements with my body while approaching her. Eventually she figured out that she wasn't going to get away from me and that she was going to get a treat for being caught.
Some horses though aren't going to be as in tune to your body language so that won't work, but it might.

I've also found (maybe you already know this) that if you approach a horse straight on, heading for their head, they usually run. If you approach diagonally, heading towards the shoulder, they usually stay in place. Maybe you sometimes approach his shoulder (when he stays) and the other times (when he runs) you approach his head and you're not even aware of it...

Good luck! =)


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

I think "chasing" works. But you will help your success if you prepare your horse for it in any old corral or small area. Just swirl your rope until your horse trots around fast and whenever the horse looks at you, stop right away and turn away from your horse. That is like join up and stuff like that I think. Keep practicing until the horse really gets the idea to turn and face you and he will be able to rest. If you walk up to him and he leaves at all, trot him off some more. Then, even in a huge pasture you can do the same thing. Only took about 10 minutes with this one horse. Had to do it only twice I think. Just keep chasing him but if he turns and looks, stop and relax right away and instantly after him again when he turns away. Yes, he will circle the other horses but they will get tired of running when they realize you have no interest in them. good luck, let us know if anything works. Then, one day when he turns his rump to you and you start to chase him and he stops immediately and faces you and waits for the halter, your adrenaline will be all up for a 10 minute jog around your field and you will have to calm yourself down fast because he was a good boy.


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

i took care of a horse whos owner only came to see him once or tiwce a month, and she only came to work him and do carriage rides for money. she would always have to write on the board "leave Bo in today" because she just could not catch him. i recomend, like many above, spending time just hanging out in the paddock. cleaning manure out, cleaning and refilling his water bucket, walking around the paddock to make sure theres no trash, holes, anything dangerous, just sit and read a book, stuff like that. also, if you catch him, bring him into the barn and groom him and then put him back outside rather than working him, or just take him out to handgraze him and then put him back outside. you want him to not think your all about work. that might help you, good luck!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> WOW That's a suprise!!!


*rolls eyes* Give it a rest, get over it.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

RoosterDo said:


> When you chase a horse who doesnt want to be caught you are telling him that not getting caught means he has to work but getting caught means he doesnt have to work he gets to hang out. You are making the wrong thing not being with you hard and the right thing being with you easy. I agree riccilove


 
Ditto to this...

I use a lot of different methods with different horses, but when it comes down to it, turning running away into 'your game' has been the best 'cure' for run away horses in my book. They learn that running away is uncomfortable because I make them work harder by not letting them stop, but coming to me, or allowing me to walk up to them and pet and brush them is comfortable, so they stop running away. One of the yearlings I am working with was a horrible runner and a few sessions of her catch me if you can game turned into my game, turned her right around...she is usually the FIRST one up to me!


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

A few of you made a good point that I neglected to mention. The "chase" method won't work the same on an abused rescue that's absolutely terrified. That's the horse you just sit in the pasture with.

There's also nothing wrong with hanging out in the pasture, I pull out a blanket in the summer and plop myself down with a book all the time. I'll even jump on Ricci, face her bum, and lay down on her back to read, letting her wander and graze. It is important that they aren't ALWAYS worked, but I think it's just as important to discipline your horse when he's misbehaving [i.e. running away].


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Have you ever worked a cow?

There are many ways to catch a hard to catch horse. The only one that has worked consistently for me is blocking.

I detest having to feed a horse to catch it. I never treat my horses if they run away. And they don't run away. Odd.

So... Blocking. It's not following, and it's not chasing. Some people touched on it. The concept comes easier of you have worked stock, wether it be wild horses, cattle, sheep, etc. Basically, you can control an animals direction by changing your location in relation to their eye. With horses, it is more often their shoulder. So, the idea is, if you get in front of the eye, you are blocking. If you are behind the eye, you are driving. The distance away determines the force you apply, therefore the speed of the animal. Getting up close will speed them up, further away lets them relax and slow down.

So, if your horse walks away in the paddock, block them. If they go left, you get in front of their eye to the left and turn them back. It should then go right... You get in front of the eye and turn them back. So on and so forth. You keep them turning, don't let them rest. I generally stay fairly far back and let the horse pick the pace. If they run, I back off more butkeep blocking.

Now, if the horse stops of its own accord, you also stop. I let them think for a second, then I try walking up to the shoulder to catch. If they move off, I drop back and keep blocking.

Never had it fail. You aren't chasing, so you won't scare them. You aren't just following, which gives no incentive to change the behaviour. You are still working them, and the release comes when they stop, face up to you and are caught.

Oh, and just a note, I never just 'hang out' with my horses unless it is bath day for a show, and they all still face up and stand quietly to be caught. I don't think it is needed.


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

Well alot of people suggest the chasing method, today when I go out I will try that, if he causes me problems, I don't think one time would hurt anything.
I'll be sure to let everyone know how that goes!


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I just wanted to add another point--

The reason we have horses, for the most part, is to ride. They are worked.

I don't 'hang out' with my horses. Not ever. They are my work partners and I am very close with them, but you'll never see me pull one out of the pasture and just let them graze.

All three of my horses line up at the gate to be ridden. They will walk across a five acre pasture and _put their head in the halter._

My problem with 'hanging out' is that it neglects to mention that it is your job to make riding interesting, fun, and self-fulfilling for the horse. Horses are just waiting for the day you 'hang out' with them--they still hate their job!

It isn't easy to make a horse _want_ to work, but I have maybe the laziest horse in the world, and he's my show horse. We log hours of hard riding every day--and he loves it.

So after you chase him and get him to realize that walking away from you sucks, it is _your_ responsibility to make his job engaging, interesting, and something he can be proud of doing.


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

When I do get Bay, he _"puts his head in the bridle"_ and i see the signs of a "join up" (licking and chewing, keeping his ears on me, etc.) when we're riding, he enjoys his job, he doesnt ever have his ears back, but I'm going to try different methods tonight.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Just walk after him. He stop, you stop. He look at you, you turn or back away, relieving the mental pressure. He starts walking or trotting, you just follow camly etc

The idea is that as long as he tries to move away or ignore you (starting to graze = walk towards him) you put pressure on him, as soon as he gives you attention, you take the pressure away. It might take hours the first times, but that will be shorter nd shorter untill he starts running to meet you. I've done this on tons of horses and after a few times it only took a few minutes to catch them, after that they started coming by themselves.
I've even done it on abused horses with great improvment.

And the best part, if you getbored or don't have ay nore time, you can just walk back again when you want (just wait untill the horse stops r at least slows down), just turn around and go. And you've still ''won'', most times the horse will look after you or even follow you a few steps after you've started walking.


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

mayfieldk said:


> I just wanted to add another point--
> 
> The reason we have horses, for the most part, is to ride. They are worked.
> 
> ...


Hm. Not sure if that was a reference to my earlier post, but the grazing that Annie got to do was a reward for her work (ground manners).

And while I respect your position on your horses, and I DO think it's our job to make their work engaging, I (and I think a few other people, as well) do not personally just think of my horse as a work partner. Again, I respect your position, but just because some of us don't share it doesn't mean our opinions are invalid.

Just "spending time" with my horse has helped build trust, and a bond. She still gets engaging, interesting work, too. But if I just wanted something to ride I'd get a motorcycle. 

And what about horses who cannot be ridden? Like minis? Lots of people keep them purely as "pets", just for the joy they bring them.

I don't think that everyone's suggestions to just "spend some time" with the horse should be disregarded. It could be beneficial.


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

Zab said:


> Just walk after him. He stop, you stop. He look at you, you turn or back away, relieving the mental pressure. He starts walking or trotting, you just follow camly etc
> 
> The idea is that as long as he tries to move away or ignore you (starting to graze = walk towards him) you put pressure on him, as soon as he gives you attention, you take the pressure away. It might take hours the first times, but that will be shorter nd shorter untill he starts running to meet you. I've done this on tons of horses and after a few times it only took a few minutes to catch them, after that they started coming by themselves.
> I've even done it on abused horses with great improvment.
> ...


Just wanted to add that Zab's idea is great, and has worked many times for me.


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## xLaurenOscarx (Aug 11, 2009)

I havent read all the posts
what i did During the summer with a new pony was stand with a bucket of feed and walk up to the ponies best friend and stand there feeding the pony handfulls and jst fuss over the pony. The pony i was trying to catch came wandering over to see what was going on. I totally ignored him and continued fussing over his friend. Then I threw some feed down near the pony I was catching and turned my back ignoring him. He took a step closer so I put feed in my hand and stood there with my head down and my hand out with feed towards him. It took a few minutes but he came forward and snatched the feed. I kept doing that gradually bringing my hand closer to me and he took steps forward. Then while he was eating a mouhtful i started to pat his neck gradually moving up to his face till he was happy I got the head collar on. Now he comes in no problem That took me 2hours in the lashing rain to get him in but now he comes straight in I also gave him loads of hay and spoilt him when he came in. good Luck


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Hanging out with your horse IS "doing something." It's building trust and rapport. And it's relaxing


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

^ Oh my gosh, is that ever true...

When I go feed my horses after a long say of work then school, I spend about a half hour with them just for _me. _I swear, they pull your stress out of you and get rid of it.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> When I go feed my horses after a long say of work then school, I spend about a half hour with them just for _me. _I swear, they pull your stress out of you and get rid of it.


I get that same feeling by going on a nice trail ride, plus it's conditioning my horse at the same time.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

I always feed my horses after I catch them. For the first few weeks I had my weanling he would not be caught. The chasing method did work, for a little but if I walk up behind him, he will dart away. For about two months Id catch my mare and he would follow her in the barn. the barn is attached to the pasture. he likes to think of my mare as his adoptive mommy. after a few months he would know coming in ment something good (getting his grain) so he would let me take him in. now he sees me and comes running to the fence. but also note, i was feeding him most of the time so he associated me with the food. it might be different at a boarding stable. ive had hard to catch horses. i would just request my horse be kept inside certain days so i wouldnt have to go get him.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Lori1983 said:


> Hm. Not sure if that was a reference to my earlier post, but the grazing that Annie got to do was a reward for her work (ground manners).
> 
> And while I respect your position on your horses, and I DO think it's our job to make their work engaging, I (and I think a few other people, as well) do not personally just think of my horse as a work partner. Again, I respect your position, but just because some of us don't share it doesn't mean our opinions are invalid.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure anyone reads posts anymore, they just look for things to argue about.

I never said it should be disregarded, or that everyone should treat their horses the way I do. What I DID say was that using 'hanging out' as a treatment for a work-sour horse ignores the very Real, very MAIN problem--that he hates his job.

'Hanging out with your horse IS "doing something." It's building trust and rapport. And it's relaxing '

When did I say it wasn't? Please re-read. Thank you.


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> I get that same feeling by going on a nice trail ride, plus it's conditioning my horse at the same time.


Me too, I just don't have the opportunity to go trail riding ever day. :lol:



mayfieldk said:


> I'm not sure anyone reads posts anymore, they just look for things to argue about.
> 
> I never said it should be disregarded, or that everyone should treat their horses the way I do. What I DID say was that using 'hanging out' as a treatment for a work-sour horse ignores the very Real, very MAIN problem--that he hates his job.
> 
> ...


I actually _have _read all the posts. Including yours. Thoroughly.  Since we can't hear people's tone of voice online, it's sometimes easy to get the wrong message/attitude from a post. IMO, your post, without tone of voice, seems dismissive of other people's choice to just "spend time" with their horses. I'm sorry if you took that as argumentative. And if you re-read _my post, _I make reference several times to the fact that I AGREE with you about the importance of making the horse's _job _fun/engaging/rewarding.


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## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> WOW That's a suprise!!!


 
Unless your one of the "little" people in your avatar, this is not becoming of an adult.

Spirit is pupil of Parelli, so what? She's entitled to post whatever she thinks may help. This is the second of third time you've done this, it's getting old.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Thank you G and K's Mom. Finally a little maturity lol.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

mayfieldk said:


> I just wanted to add another point--
> 
> The reason we have horses, for the most part, is to ride. They are worked.
> 
> ...


I spend a LOT of time 'hanging out' with my horses; just hand grazing them and playing with them in the pasture....a lot of people have different views, I know, but I find it creates a stronger bond between horse and rider and gives them incentive to want to work for you. They have a bond with me out of love and trust instead of association of you as the 'lead/boss mare'. We work together, instead of 'me in charge', 'do what i say', 'i am the boss here', etc. Lots of people have great bonds with ther horses without the quality time together, but that's just my opinion


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## Horsegal16 (Oct 2, 2009)

There is a mare that I work with that will come up to me in the field but the minute that I try to halter her she takes off. When you go to catch your horse, rub his ears and greet him ( when you greet him blow into his nostrils, like horses do when they greet e/o), also, I know this sounds silly, but ask him if you can halter him and let him sniff the halter, if he turns his nose away after sniffing try to put the halter on and make sure that you stand shoulder to shoulder. Hope it works.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

^^ That's not silly, it's being polite! I always ask my horse's permission before I halter him. I actually want him to participate in the haltering process, I look for him to offer to stick his nose through the halter. If he doesn't, I do something to cause him to be more interested in me so that he WANTS me to put the halter on. If we just catch our horse (instead of having the horse catch us) and put the halter on without seeing what the horse thinks of it, well, that's just rude! lol.


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## G and K's Mom (Jan 11, 2008)

Spirithorse said:


> ^^ That's not silly, it's being polite! I always ask my horse's permission before I halter him. I actually want him to participate in the haltering process, I look for him to offer to stick his nose through the halter. If he doesn't, I do something to cause him to be more interested in me so that he WANTS me to put the halter on.


I have to chuckle about this........ George, my oldest has very strong opinions about how things should work. I too hold the halter up and if doesn't want it on fine, I'll go get Kooter and do something fun with him and exclude George. Kooter is always happy to have a halter put on. 

In the summer I grab halters to put them out in the field. I usually go to George first and for the first few times each year he usually will turn his head away...... fine.......halter Kooter AND take him out to the field and leave George in the paddock. Then I proceed to do some other chores until George can't take it anymore and is following me around like a shadow at which point I'll ask again.......now he's more than happy to be haltered. The only time I force myself on them is if it's time sensitive, like a vet visit or they need doctoring.


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## Horsegal16 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks Spirithorse and G and K's mom, that means alot to me that you agree with me.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Lori1983 said:


> I actually have read all the posts. Including yours. Thoroughly. Since we can't hear people's tone of voice online, it's sometimes easy to get the wrong message/attitude from a post. IMO, your post, without tone of voice, seems dismissive of other people's choice to just "spend time" with their horses. I'm sorry if you took that as argumentative. And if you re-read my post, I make reference several times to the fact that I AGREE with you about the importance of making the horse's job fun/engaging/rewarding.


But there was nothing in the post, no underlining meaning or specifically chosen words, that would lead you to believe what you did. The point of the post was that telling people to hang out with their horses ignores the MAIN problem that the horse hates his job. There was nothing dismissive, implied or not, about hanging out with your horse, or grooming him.

If there was, please quote it.



equiniphile said:


> I spend a LOT of time 'hanging out' with my horses; just hand grazing them and playing with them in the pasture....a lot of people have different views, I know, but I find it creates a stronger bond between horse and rider and gives them incentive to want to work for you. They have a bond with me out of love and trust instead of association of you as the 'lead/boss mare'. We work together, instead of 'me in charge', 'do what i say', 'i am the boss here', etc. Lots of people have great bonds with ther horses without the quality time together, but that's just my opinion


This is exactly my point.

I don't treat my horses like underlinings, I treat them as equal business partners. And just like a world-class athlete likes hard work because they're GOOD at what they do, so do my horses. They are PROUD of their job and what they can do because they are being ridden the way they should be. It's not 'work' to them, and it never has to be.

When people start having a problem with catching their horse and start 'hanging out' with them so that they can catch them, that horse PRAYS every day that he's coming out to eat or be groomed. He still loathes being ridden. See how that covers up the underlying problem? When this method works, it never forces the rider to re-think how they ride. Do you want to ride your horse if it hates YOU riding it?

That's why I don't suggest this as a solution for a hard to catch horse. Change the work--catch them in a different way--but save the 'hanging out' for when his job is fun and rewarding.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I really hope that you folks that chase your horse to teach him to be caught have the only horses turned out in that area. 

I just spent a long time re-teaching my "A" horse to not run if I put my hands in the air. FORMER boarder had to chase her horse to catch him. While doing so, taught my horse to run when arms were raised. Needless to say she is a former boarder.

It's not a game. Horses are not toys. I wish some folks would get that. A good friend had her son flown to the hospital this past summer. He was chasing and got kicked in the jaw.

No more 'natural' horse methods at her house.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

mls said:


> I really hope that you folks that chase your horse to teach him to be caught have the only horses turned out in that area.
> 
> I just spent a long time re-teaching my "A" horse to not run if I put my hands in the air. FORMER boarder had to chase her horse to catch him. While doing so, taught my horse to run when arms were raised. Needless to say she is a former boarder.
> 
> ...


Don't blame people chasing horses incorrectly and assume that the technique is in itself bad. One, it is not natural.

Two, if she had to chase her horse every day, then she wasn't doing it right.

I've had to chase a few in my life time, and it's not a game. You're incorrect. If you are doing it right, it doesn't take more then a week or so.

There are plenty of bad apples in the horse world. Don't assume, because you've seen one, we all are.


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

^LoL, thanks mayfield. I'm not positive, but I think most of the people who suggested this were very clear in that it was _temporary. _My horse stands and waits for her halter, now. If I had to chase her for more than a week, even, that method would have been done with. I have NEVER had to "chase" or "catch" a horse except that brief month over the summer, but as I stated, she was ALONE and probably bored and understimulated out of her mind. Not an issue anymore. I would NEVER have the presumptiousness to chase or rile up a herd of horses that don't belong to me. I would NEVER teach a horse that "arms up" means run. That's insane.

Oh, and...lol, nevermind about the questionable "tone" of your other post...I must have been having a touchy day...because mls's post is _directly _rude. :twisted: Makes yours a walk in the park. Tone, Shmone... :wink:

I mean really, mls, there are certainly ways that we can disagree with each others methods without being condescending. It seems like everyone has been so cranky on here lately...lol, has it been rainy _everywhere_ in the country? Are you all not getting to ride enough either? (I'm not...it's been making me a troll) :lol:


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## whitetrashwarmblood (Aug 24, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> Have you ever worked a cow?
> 
> There are many ways to catch a hard to catch horse. The only one that has worked consistently for me is blocking.
> 
> ...


I do this, and I think it works quite well.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

mls said:


> I really hope that you folks that chase your horse to teach him to be caught have the only horses turned out in that area.
> 
> I just spent a long time re-teaching my "A" horse to not run if I put my hands in the air. FORMER boarder had to chase her horse to catch him. While doing so, taught my horse to run when arms were raised. Needless to say she is a former boarder.
> 
> ...


For most people who use the 'put your horse to work' or 'chase' method, we aren't running behind the horse, and trying to catch him. Of course if someone runs behind a horse, they are liable to get kicked. 

But when I use a method which keeps the horse moving, I am NOT simply running after him with my arms up, yelling, or being otherwise 'threatening' to a horse. I am quiet, and stay out of his way, by placing myself in the center of the circle. To change directions I simply step in front of his motion, wait for him to slow, then use my arm to 'point' in the direction I want him to go. I have also never had a problem working with other horses in a pen, because the other horses quickly learn that they are not the 'object' of my focus; I'm not looking at them, not cutting them off, or pushing them with my body language.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

I have to say that I agree with some of the people talking about chasing. It is only temporary,but you can teach your horse that it is much easrier to allow you to catch him and get a treat than it is to run away and have to keep running and then have to work. i've never had to do that more than one to four times. After that the horse normally understadns that it is more rewarding to be with you and listen than it is to run away. After doing this with my old horse only three times he came up any time I came out,, adn he came up nickering expecting rubbing and sometimes treats (treats wer never a given because he would get pushy if he always got them) 

The only issue I had was that if you had never lunged him or had to chase him then he would sometimes decide that you weren't really going to get him and that you would give up if he stayed away long enough. Multiple family members of mine did this to just give him some space to come to them. He just went and rolled and grazed far away from them. :lol: he was a tab bit more stubborn than many horses, but he was a sweetheart if he knew that he wanted to be around you. You just had to convince him that you were better than the grass and rolling.


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## luvmytwh (Oct 6, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Lots of people will disagree here, but CHASE HIM. I've done this with TONS of horses and it worked wonders for all of them. Just walk up to him like normal, and the SECOND he turns away, run at him. It makes it your idea. Your tricking him, he thought he was all clever running away from you, but now you are chasing him and making him work. That just isn't any fun. Look for the signs of a "join up" [licking and chewing, lowering his head, keeping his ears on you, basically showing signs he wants to stop] and let him. Walk up to him and if tries to turn away again, send him off. It WORKS, there are tons of people out there against it for whatever reason, but it WORKS so I don't see why you shouldn't try it.
> 
> Once you catch him, it's up to you what to do next. You can halter him and walk him to cool down, give him lots of treats, lots of affection, a good grooming, or just a pat and leave him along, whatever you think he'll enjoy the most. Repeat the process when necessary.


 
Yep- works for me, on every horse I've ever had to use it on. One time I had to do it two days in a row, but he wised up and never ran off again. A good loud "Hyaaahhh" and the spinning end of a lead adds to the experience. As soon as he stops to graze he'll one-eye you, and that's your cue to "Hyaaahhh" again and get him moving. Fast. Make it your idea that he runs off, not his. He'll realize being with you is a lot easier than running away from you. But have patience, especially if he has a buddy with him (might want to remove that buddy). Good luck!


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

I tried the chasing yesterday, and it worked! it took a few good minutes, but he was licking and chewing, engaging in the "game", and I finally caught him, at first I thought it was going to drive him away more, but it worked.


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

chelssss(: said:


> And he knows I do not believe in harsh punishment, because of his abusive background with his previous owners, so when it does take an hour to catch him, I *praise* him when i do bring him in from catching him, instead of making a scene and increasing the chances of not being able to catch him again.


I think this may be an issue....while i agree that making a scene is the wrong thing to do you should NOT praise him afterward either....by doing this you may be sending across the message that its ok for him to run...

When he runs I would recommend you dont praise him...taking him out do what you were going to do with him but dont give him treats or verbal praise...

When and if he does just let you catch him without a hassle bring on the treats an loving! Eventually he will realize that he gets rewarded for being easy to catch not the other way around...


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## Lori1983 (Jan 9, 2009)

chelssss(: said:


> I tried the chasing yesterday, and it worked! it took a few good minutes, but he was licking and chewing, engaging in the "game", and I finally caught him, at first I thought it was going to drive him away more, but it worked.


 
Yay!


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

Yesterday, when I did chase him, I actually did not reward him. So once he gets in the GOOD habit of looking at me, and coming to me (like he SOMETIMES does) I will then reward him. I just know this is a fall/winter project for me and him.


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## paintsrule (Aug 20, 2009)

I think the chasing method would work well, but not with rescue/abuse cases, with them i would go with the lawn chair suggestion, even if youre making the wrong thing easy, i wouldnt want to scar them more.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

I think the word chasing may be giving some people the wrong impression. MLS, other horses in the field do not usually run, they quickly figure out you are only looking at one horse. So do not let your experience with that one border give you the wrong idea. And you do not "chase" them by waving your arms. Chelsss, I think you should reward your horse whenever he does the right thing. Remember hold no grudges. No matter if you followed him for 1/2 an hour, when he does come to you that is all in the past. He will remember the reward for what he did correctly. He won't think, "Oh, I can run for awhile and then get caught and still get a treat" He will just notice when he gets caught he gets a treat. But, also remember, if you do some of this work in a small area and he learns that turning away from you gets him work and facing you gets rest he will learn it quicker in a large area.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

That's a good point Juniper. Chase really isn't the right word. You should be using body language only, make yourself "driving" in appearance. Your horse is already running away from you, you're just manipulating his mind into gradually thinking it's your idea and not his. This shouldn't have to require any sort of hand waving or shouting, if he's already moving away from you, you've accomplished the "chasing" part. Granted, if your horse is frisky and decides to start galloping around you WILL have to run to keep up, otherwise he'll just get extended breaks when he gets far enough away from you which defeats the entire purpose of the "game". The idea is to always keep him moving, don't let him rest until he's ready to stop with you STILL in motion and turn to you. That's when you know he's given up.

The idea is never to scare them, it's only to make it a lot less fun running from you then just being caught. Horses get bored of games pretty quick especially when they aren't able to play it exactly how THEY want.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

well put


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

Well yesterday I put him in the round pen, took off his halter, and I pretty much did what I normally do in the field, and I'm going to continue to bring him in the round pen, and then bring him into the arena, and do the same, until this "driving" or "chasing" for 20+ minutes becomes a 5-10 ordeal.

It'll take some time, but I really am in no rush, just takes ALOT of TLC and patience. At the rescue, and at his other homes, the owners let him run off, and paid no attention to him. Which of course it's all on my shoulders now, but I have the patience for him.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

I really think you might not be doing it correctly if it is taking so long. Do you mind my asking how you are going about it? Are you watching for the slightest turning toward you and backing off and making your body passive instantly every single time? The concept is not chasing but teaching your horse to face you when you apply pressure. To turn his hindquarters away when you look at them with pressure. It should not need lots of patience. You might need just a few pointers to make it a lot easier I am thinking.


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

Well I'm not used to a horse like he is, my old pony trotted up to me, so its something totally new to me. I know not to go to his hind quarters, as that is "driving him away" i try and face his shoulder - and forward. 

But when he faces me, or when I find a slight movement of him turning, I wait until he turns towards me.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

I don't think I can explain it very well but I will attempt. In the pen if your horse starts to walk away from you or turns away then swing your leadrope until he trots off at a fast pace or lopes off. Be careful of course not to be in kicking distance if he turns away from you, just in case. Move him fast for a few minutes and then completely shut down your body and see if he will stop and face you. If he does, fabulous, just hang out for five minutes or so and really let him understand that facing you is the right idea. If he goes to move away then move him fast again for a few minutes. If when you are moving him he attempts to turn toward you at any time immediately stop moving and 1/2 turn away from him so he understands you will stop bothering him if he faces you. After a rest when he is facing you gradually go closer to him and then move away BEFORE he looks away from you. But if he does decide to leave when you are walking up to him run him for a few minutes more. Eventually he will stand while you walk up to him, give him a quick pet and leave him again.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

You sound like you are employing the techniques correctly to me and I was going to vote for chasing since it was first suggested. Maybe it is just taking longer because those of us experienced with this lesson can get through it faster. Horses don't wear watches and I never impose time frames on their mental ability. If it takes longer it takes longer, she isn't going to hurt her horse by making it break a sweat a few extra times. I taught someone this method this summer then I handed her the halter and lead and said this is your battle. I walked away and in twenty minutes she had him caught, I could have done it quicker, but the point was made. She even said he got her to the point of wanting to give up and that was what made her mad and finally determined not to let him have his way, ie. make her retreat the arena. The next time it went faster, but still was a pain, probably wouldn't be easy for a long time but she learned how to catch any horse that day. Also just because we are teaching them that it is easier to get caught then avoid it, doesn't mean they are ever going to be that happy nice to see you horse that greets you every time you come. We can't change personality, only create ways to communicate the rules that are expected to be followed, they don't have to be happy about it, they just have to do it sometimes.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

If it is working, you are doing it correctly.


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