# Gaining Trust With Flap Jack



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

subbing OMG he is gorgeous! your gonna have one good horse


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

barrelbeginner said:


> subbing OMG he is gorgeous! your gonna have one good horse


Thank you and I hope so!!! He is a super calm horse too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

how old is he? what do you plan on doing with him? good luck!


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

barrelbeginner said:


> how old is he? what do you plan on doing with him? good luck!


4 years old and trail and possibly games (depending on how much speed he has)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

Here is a video and picture of me working with him today!

I wanted to get on him since he was doing great but he was afraid of the wooden step


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

So i got bucked off today I will get into more detail later but my ankle/leg hurts pretty badly. He was doing so good and then he decided to buck! My friend kinda got ran over too. I wish I had someone video taping it, my friend even thought it was fun!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

I would go back to square one w/him. He needs to have respect for humans. I thnik you 're pushing way too fast for this young of a horse. Please be careful.


----------



## Malice (Mar 10, 2012)

Cute looking little horse, can't tell for sure but your saddle may be a tad to far forward, but it could just be his positioning. I agree that our pushing him way to fast, I don't touch my new horses for at least 3 days to let them settle, that the next wedkp getting to know each other, not working on new stuff. How much experience do you have with horses, especially training wise?


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

^^ This. I would be working on getting his ground manners in order before you start thinking about getting on. Lots and lots of groundwork. Teach him to yield, back up, step away from you etc. There are some good threads on here covering groundwork exercises for disrespectful horses. Bucking can be caused by a number of things but running over someone is plain lack of respect. He wouldn't do it to the alpha horse.

Calm is great but respect is crucial. Respect will earn trust - he'll see you as leader and protector, and that will make him less spooky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> ^^ This. I would be working on getting his ground manners in order before you start thinking about getting on. Lots and lots of groundwork. Teach him to yield, back up, step away from you etc. There are some good threads on here covering groundwork exercises for disrespectful horses. Bucking can be caused by a number of things but running over someone is plain lack of respect. He wouldn't do it to the alpha horse.
> 
> Calm is great but respect is crucial. Respect will earn trust - he'll see you as leader and protector, and that will make him less spooky.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My friend was leading him and I was on him when he bucked and ran over her. He has already had lots of ground work done I discovered and has had a saddle and pressure in his stirrups too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

Cacowgirl said:


> I would go back to square one w/him. He needs to have respect for humans. I thnik you 're pushing way too fast for this young of a horse. Please be careful.


He is 4 not a 2 year old and has already done a lot of this stuff
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

Malice said:


> Cute looking little horse, can't tell for sure but your saddle may be a tad to far forward, but it could just be his positioning. I agree that our pushing him way to fast, I don't touch my new horses for at least 3 days to let them settle, that the next wedkp getting to know each other, not working on new stuff. How much experience do you have with horses, especially training wise?


which saddle I had 2 different saddles on him in the pictures.he has been at the place that he is at for a 1 and a half. I have already trained one horse and he is the best horse I have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

It's not like I just jumped in the saddle and said go, I have taken it slow and work on pressure in stirrups and laying in the saddle and walking him around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

He may not be a 2yo but he sounds like he has a lot of holes in his training, not just with his actions today but also with his previous owners. Groundwork is more than just pressure in stirrups and laying over the saddle - it's about asserting your position as the dominant one. I do regular groundwork with my horse because he has a naturally dominant personality, and he's a rising 9yo with miles under his belt.

As I said before, teach him to yield to pressure, back up, step out of your space, follow at your shoulder without a lead and without rushing ahead. This is no criticism - we don't want anyone getting hurt, we want you to succeed and turn this beautiful boy into a super riding horse. Groundwork may seem boring but it's incredibly valuable - and you can make it interesting!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

Yes I know groundwork is more than pressure in stirrups. With his original owner she put a lot of time into his groundwork, she did all of the things you mentioned beside following at shoulder without a lead, he is so slow he doesn't follow fast enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

Yup but you'll have to do it too to gain his respect - a horse develops respect for a person, not a whole species, and running over people and refusing to lunge shouts disrespect. Until he has full respect for you, keep up the groundwork - trust me on this one, I know you've trained another horse but horses are individuals and some are much more submissive than others. I work with two green horses atm - with Star people can get away with a soft, laid back approach and a verbal "nuh-uh" is all it takes to get her attention and obedience; Brock on the other hand requires strong body language, proper physical reprimands and 100% concentration at all times to prevent him gaining any points over you. Your horse sounds somewhere in between the two but gaining his respect now will save a lot of time, hassle, frustration and trips to ER in the future!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

oopsy my bad


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> Yup but you'll have to do it too to gain his respect - a horse develops respect for a person, not a whole species, and running over people and refusing to lunge shouts disrespect. Until he has full respect for you, keep up the groundwork - trust me on this one, I know you've trained another horse but horses are individuals and some are much more submissive than others. I work with two green horses atm - with Star people can get away with a soft, laid back approach and a verbal "nuh-uh" is all it takes to get her attention and obedience; Brock on the other hand requires strong body language, proper physical reprimands and 100% concentration at all times to prevent him gaining any points over you. Your horse sounds somewhere in between the two but gaining his respect now will save a lot of time, hassle, frustration and trips to ER in the future!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks, I think it will be raining for the next couple days so I won't be a to do anything. I need a crop or whip to proabably get him to lunge.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Horsnaround64 (Dec 31, 2011)

You need to do all the steps as she did before. He needs this form you and him to be safe. If he had good ground manners he would have never ran anyone over. Start over and you will have a great horse And you both will be safe . Becareful


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

Horsnaround64 said:


> You need to do all the steps as she did before. He needs this form you and him to be safe. If he had good ground manners he would have never ran anyone over. Start over and you will have a great horse And you both will be safe . Becareful


He ran her over because he started to buck while she was leading him and I was in him only really stepped on her leg
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

Get a driving whip if you can - easier to handle than a lunge whip so you can be a bit more precise about where you flick him. And they're also easier to use when free lunging in an arena or paddock. My tool of choice! Do you have a small arena you can free lunge in? Friendlier on the joints than working on circles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

He should never run onto someone - I understand a green horse spooking and running, but it should always be away from people. A horse that runs over a person has no respect for them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> Get a driving whip if you can - easier to handle than a lunge whip so you can be a bit more precise about where you flick him. And they're also easier to use when free lunging in an arena or paddock. My tool of choice! Do you have a small arena you can free lunge in? Friendlier on the joints than working on circles.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


no small area until he gets moved to my house. Do you have a link to a good driving whip?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

I'll find you a link to my favourite in the morning - it's nearly midnight here. It's a bit more expensive than some ($60 approx) but it has great balance and feel, and a good quality lash.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> I'll find you a link to my favourite in the morning - it's nearly midnight here. It's a bit more expensive than some ($60 approx) but it has great balance and feel, and a good quality lash.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Malice (Mar 10, 2012)

Evil horse said it perfectly, just because his old owners did ground with him desn't mean the lessons will travel over to you, sure he knows to move his *** when you flick a rope at it, but the respect? No.
And don't say you've taken the right amount of time because you didn't immediately jump in the saddle, taking the right amount of time when the horse is ready. Yes you have to push them, but not drag them. 
Excuse my bluntness but I'm also worried about your experience. The fact that you said the horse you've trained before was the best you own, compared to a really nice horse, well, doen tell anybody much. Have you ever rode a Professionarily trained horse? It's like a punch in the gut at first when you think back to all of your hard work on your own horses, but it makes you better. Strive for lightness and suppleness with your colt, and really instill the basics before jumping forward. 

Also, realize it takes a whole lot of time to train a speed/barrel horse. Patterning him will take you at the very least 6 months and than MAYBE you can go faster than a slow lope. And that's after you have him nice and broke.


----------



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

Malice said:


> Evil horse said it perfectly, just because his old owners did ground with him desn't mean the lessons will travel over to you, sure he knows to move his *** when you flick a rope at it, but the respect? No.
> And don't say you've taken the right amount of time because you didn't immediately jump in the saddle, taking the right amount of time when the horse is ready. Yes you have to push them, but not drag them.
> Excuse my bluntness but I'm also worried about your experience. The fact that you said the horse you've trained before was the best you own, compared to a really nice horse, well, doen tell anybody much. Have you ever rode a Professionarily trained horse? It's like a punch in the gut at first when you think back to all of your hard work on your own horses, but it makes you better. Strive for lightness and suppleness with your colt, and really instill the basics before jumping forward.
> 
> Also, realize it takes a whole lot of time to train a speed/barrel horse. Patterning him will take you at the very least 6 months and than MAYBE you can go faster than a slow lope. And that's after you have him nice and broke.


Yes I have rode some professionaly broke horses and either it is the same as my horse or sometimes worse than mine. And for barrel racing who knows if I am actually going to do it.

If the trainer at the barn I am at would have trained him they would have been riding him at a w/t/l by now(if they could get on him they thought he was a bucker even if you would try to put pressure on him), and they go fast with there training. They had a 2 year old at the barn that they trained to do w/t/l in a 30 day period and that included starting from saddling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

my filly did that one i was so mad.. i was just walking her and she stepped right INTO my boot when she was running.. OMG it hurt so bad.. grr did i work her and make her realize "this is my space I DONT CARE what scared you.. you dont come into MY SPACE" lol


----------



## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

Here we go. I think mine was the 66in version - I didn't buy it online, I got it from my local saddlery, but unfortunately they don't sell them there anymore so when I lost this one (I'm a forgetful idiot lol) I had no choice but to buy their cheapie one which doesn't have anywhere near the balance and control of the one I had originally. So the extra $$ are well worth it - feels like an extension of the arm, rather than a stick.


----------

