# All Equestrian Sport should be Banned?



## hjracer (Jul 19, 2011)

I stumbled across this site today and I am curious about what people think of this guy. His name is Alexander Nevzorov and he claims that one day, our grandchildren will look back on the days when horses were ridden and feel as ashamed as we feel now thinking of slavery and concentration camps. He also feels all equestrian sports should not be considered sport because the horse “does not want to be engaged in this sport but is forced to it by pain and beating.” He has a photo gallery titled "The Horrors of Equestrian Sport" to prove this point.

So, instead, we need to connect with our horse’s soul and become the horse's friend. I liked The difference of Nevzorov Haute Ecole from other schools and ways of horsemanship section, where he compares his teachings to other schools of thought. Guess I'm a cruel, horrible, heartless person...I should be teaching my horse Latin!

Seriously though, he looks like a decent horse person and a good rider, even if he doesn't ride anymore. What do you guys think?


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Horses that don't like to race don't tend to stay at the track for long in my experience. They don't win and then there is no sense in having them stay at the track. For a horse to excel at something they have to like it a little. They way 1000 pounds we can't really force them to do anything by brute force. My horses seem to genuinely like being fussed over. I have a mare that gets jealous when I don't spend enough time with her. I don't see a world in which people are having horses as pets and not using them. When we stop riding horses then most of the world stops having horses. Thats just my thoughts on it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

He's a nutjob.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I think he and the guy who does"friendship training are smoking the same pipe.
Friendship Training:shock:

Yes, they are nutjobs. Agree totally.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Who says he doesn't ride any more? So far as I know, he does, but not as a utility - he rides to play with his horses, not to go from a to b.

I think he is a fanatic & goes way over the top personally, but I do agree with the basic premise that his fanaticism is based on. I think there is way too much 'use' of horses without consideration, caring or respect for them as sentient beings. I think there is much abuse that goes on in the equestrian 'sports', frequently not even recognised as such. I do think the competitive focus encourages & allows this. However, I don't think for a minute that just because someone does these sort of things means they are necessarily cruel, uncaring, etc, etc.

I do also think he is inspirational to watch & see what he can do with his horses, especially at liberty.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

As crazy as a fruitloop... Also full of poo...

And no, he doesn't ride at all anymore... He used to think it was okay to ride for half an hour but not it is no longer okay.

His horses have all been previously trained by using traditional dressage methods...
He condradicts himself..

I do understand that there is cruelty in the horse world... Cruelty is everywhere... Try to stop it as much as you can but it has always been there and will continue to be there.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it sure is fun to watch him work with the horses. But not everyone is going to be like that. IT's extremeism for sure.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I had seen him on TV and he is very gifted and I enjoyed watching him. It would be nice if people could care more about the well being of animals. Some of the things that people do are upsetting so I didn't watch the horrors link but they do unfortunately exist and maybe if everyone could make a difference we could stop cruelty.

Some horses look very willing because they would be beaten if they showed discomfort. My sister took some photo's at a reining show and I mentioned how I was surprised the horses looked happy. She said that they didn't she just didn't show the photo's of their mouths gaping and being jerked around. I personally wouldn't engage in any equestrian events that would be painful and rough on a horse as there are plenty of other things to do with them.


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## goingnowhere1 (Jan 22, 2012)

First of all, I believe that when done correctly horseback riding is a wonderful and peacefull sport. Now to and standardbred racing is cruel depending on the care and how young they start, dressage and jumping can be cruel if people hang and pop horses in the mouth or use spurs incorrectly, and some WP is done incorrectly, and various other disciplines can be cruel. Heck, walking can be cruel if you have a curb and their neck is cranked in. But the cruelty of riding all goes back to dumbess in a humans part, not knowing better, being taught that way, and several others reason. If all people were taught how to care for and treat all animals on Earth then nothing would be able to be cruel.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

bsms said:


> He's a nutjob.


That was the exact thought that went through my head. I hate to be the voice of reason and rain on his little parade, but his horses don't look exactly happy. Last time I checked, well adjusted, well trained, and happy horses didn't attack their handlers....


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## skyhorse1999 (Dec 29, 2011)

Here is what i think; the horses are 10 times the size of us and about 30 times stronger. if they really did not want us to be on them, then we wouldnt because you just _cant _beat something that much bigger than you. the bigger animal will always win. The horses allow us to ride them becauses we take care of them, feed them, and love them. If a horse does not tust you, it wont ride well. So yes, maybe some people will be ashamed, but i wont because i know my horse, and every horse i have ever ridden, had some will inside them that brought them to trust me and love me and know that i would be there. its the people that just get on a horse and whip them untill they do their masters bidding that will regret it, not those of us who truly have a bond with the horses we ride.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Cool to watch but I am not going to be joining on his parade or taking any of those pipes he's handing out to smoke.

Smrobs - That picture made me fall over laughing. If any of my horses ever did that to me they would be running backwards laps around the arena until they frothed sweat. NEVER would that be okay. But you know he probably found an excuse to feed his cultists.


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## howrsegirl123 (Feb 19, 2012)

That guy's a nut. I treat my horses with respect and kindness.


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## Lonannuniel (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm sure he has a fair bit of knowledge, whether his techniques are different or not, there's probably something in his methods that would be worth learning to some extent. However, he comes across as very arrogant and not the type I would want as a mentor, and his whole 'every rider is cruel, except me' approach seems awfully 'cultish'. 

That being said, his horses seem to be well taken care of, and his arena is absolutely lovely. I'm sure his overall facility is quite nice aswell. 

As for him as a person. He looks terrifying, though relatively well accomplished in other fields as well as in riding and training. I do recall reading somewhere about his riding techniques in his younger days, I'll try to look for the picture but there are a few of him riding in very harsh bits that he now deems as 'torture'.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

skyhorse1999 said:


> its the people that just get on a horse and whip them untill they do their masters bidding that will regret it, not those of us who truly have a bond with the horses we ride.


I'm not 100% certain that I am reading your post correctly so I apologize if I read it wrong and this response doesn't fit the idea with which you posted :wink:.

The problem with those fanatics like "Nut"zorov is that they are so caught up with being the horse's "friend" that they forget that it is an animal 5+ times our size. I handle a horse every day that outweighs me by 1850 pounds. If he didn't respect me first, obey me second, and "love" me at the very bottom of his list, then his size 9 feet could crush me in a heartbeat. 

The part where they get into trouble (Nevzorov, many Parelli followers, the "friendship training" guy and his followers, etc) is that they are not following a balanced training method. No training will be greatly effective if there isn't a balance between discussion and force. Those folks believe that you can get a well trained and happy horse without ever showing any type of force or punishment, regardless of behavior, and that just isn't right. Anyone who says otherwise has either drank too much of the Kook-aid or has not been around very many horses.

How much of which is needed greatly depends on the individual horse. My Dad's horse Pokey is more the "discussion" type and if you push the issue even a touch too far, he'll absolutely freak out...so with him, we have to be kinder and quieter in his handling. 

OTOH, my Percheron John is more of a pushy personality and there are times when I have to have a come-to-Jesus meeting with him to remind him that _I'm_ the one in charge. If I treated him the way I have to treat Pokey, he would have been classified as "dangerous" many years ago because he would have become too spoiled to still have respect for people.

Then I have my Mustang Dobe, who is a bit of both. Most of the time, he responds much better to me just quietly reminding him "Hey, you know what you're supposed to be doing", but occasionally, I have to give him a pop for him to straighten up and listen.

No training method can spend 100% of it's time being 100% nice or 100% harsh. Neither of those methods will produce an acceptable result. Any good trainer knows that and will be able to recognize exactly what percentage of nice/harsh each horse needs.



> Smrobs - That picture made me fall over laughing. If any of my horses ever did that to me they would be running backwards laps around the arena until they frothed sweat. NEVER would that be okay. But you know he probably found an excuse to feed his cultists


Oh, I know! The last colt that tried that with me ended up spending the next minutes believing that I was the devil incarnate come to drag him into hell. 



He never tried to bite me again though :wink::lol:.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Oh, I know! The last colt that tried that with me ended up spending the next minutes believing that I was the devil incarnate come to drag him into hell.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOl that made me laught! Yes this guy is coocoo bananers! people treat horses nicely and kind! i do anyways! my horse barrel races and he loves it i can tell.. if he didnt he would be like my other horse.. who hates it.. so he lets me know he dont like doing it.. so we move on to other things, like trail riding.. they all love that! and playing in the rain puddles we eventually got the other day!:lol:


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Maybe we should put this guy in contact with PETA?
Someone forgot to give my horse's the memo that they're being kept in a concentration camp  My silly yearling and 10 year old both run to me when they see my car coming, and the yearling leaves his food to follow me around the paddock while I check fences etc. I must have him brain washed  

My poor old 10 yr old gets works 5-6 days/week, for 1 hour a day. The remaining 23 hours are spent at his leisure, cruising around in the paddock, with an endless supply of pasture, hay and a well balanced hard feed twice a day to keep him in tip top condition. 
If that's concentration camp, then let me at it!!! Working 9 hours/day, being hounded with someone looking over my shoulder constantly... give me a horse's life any day 

I think this is another fellow to pick up and gently place into the friendship training and parelli basket.


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## Equenix (May 21, 2012)

For me these make no sense. If you think of them like kids (a bit more dangerous). You don't give kids everything they want or they turn into little brats, nether do you beat them till they can't relate to people. You lay down the law, reward when deserved as well as punish.
Mainly because I don't want an 1000lb and over animal knowing it can push me around, because in reality it can!


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## Horsecccrazy (Jun 9, 2012)

That guy is crazy! I hate people like that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Ray MacDonald said:


> Also full of poo...


Ha ha ha! That sounds hilarious, tho the alternative word for it doesn't!



> And no, he doesn't ride at all anymore... He used to think it was okay ....
> His horses have all been previously trained by using traditional dressage methods...


Interesting. I've only looked into the guy superficially - what's on his site, didn't feel the need to delve. How did you come to that second bit of info?

Re the horse 'attacking' him, *apparently* he doesn't believe in disciplining them or otherwise dampening their natural personalities & behaviour. For the reasons already given, re big animals & our safety, I think that's rather... silly, to say the least, but I don't think it shows his horses are unhappy - watch 2 young colts having a sparring match in the paddock & see how much they hate eachother for eg.



> the horses are 10 times the size of us and about 30 times stronger. if they really did not want us to be on them, then we wouldnt because you just _cant _beat something that much bigger than you. the bigger animal will always win. The horses allow us to ride them becauses we take care of them, feed them, and love them.


Hmm, I often wish that were true, for what I see so many horses have to put up with, but that's looking at it through _extremely_ rose coloured glasses IME. Why do 'loving' people feel the need to use harsh bits, crops, spurs, etc if it's all peace, love & mungbeans?? Horses generally put up with... a poo load(thanks Ray) from people, which is why they've been so invaluable to the human race & why they're so much better than other animals at it.

I personally feel that my horse would feel less happy if I didn't take him out on the trails - perhaps I'm kidding myself, but I feel he does genuinely love his outings & enjoys taking me places. He is always keen to go out & generally it's when we turn for home that he slows down & shows his reluctance. I don't believe in 'dominating' him - we are mates IMO, though for safety's sake he needs to see me as his leader. It took a lot of time for me to come to this attitude about horses & I was brought up with 'normal' type teachings, such as 'you must dominate, make them submit', etc & IME, it was generally easier to train a horse with this mindset & methods(apart from the odd 'rogue').


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I used to have another photo of him being bitten by his horse.

I'm quite fond of my mare Mia, and she has been doing pretty good lately - until yesterday evening. I thought I'd get in a quick 20 minute ride with her, but she was a pain from the beginning. I got off after 5 minutes, and she acted pushy. Things escalated, and 5 minutes later she was galloping around the arena - and she kept galloping and turning for 30 minutes.

I gave her a couple of chances to say enough, but it took 30 minutes. At the end, she followed me around like a lamb - so I put a lead on her and walked her 3 miles thru the desert, visiting every place she feels even slightly uncomfortable with.

At the end, she was lovey-dovey, but she was only that way because I jumped in her chili. There is a reason no one else in my family wants to ride her. She is very dominant, and will quickly ignore anyone who isn't willing push her back.

Horses like safety, not friendship. And if you are not viewed as strong enough to provide safety, they aren't going to want to be your 'friend'.

On the whole, Mia seems to like me. But it is foolish to forget that she is a horse, and that she likes me because she views me as strong enough to take care of her.

That was the first religious revival Mia & I have had in 6 months. And while I'm very fond of her, she does need to 'walk down the aisle', so to speak, from time to time. Sinners aren't inclined to repent if there is no fire & brimstone...:twisted:

I ought to add that the same treatment given to either of my geldings would almost certainly be harmful. They are both more of the fearful/submissive type, and 'dragging them to hell' wouldn't work well at all. Besides, they both were watching with big eyes at what happened to the lead mare...


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Pfft, that's just a kiss because his horses love him so much. It's a mutual respect thing. :lol::lol:





smrobs said:


> That was the exact thought that went through my head. I hate to be the voice of reason and rain on his little parade, but his horses don't look exactly happy. Last time I checked, well adjusted, well trained, and happy horses didn't attack their handlers....


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## Bobthebuilder (Jan 8, 2012)

I guess he has a few fair points, but its so very one sided.
For example. Shoeing "Is looked upon as a good and necessary thing for any horse"
I find that interesting, because my horse was shod this year only (shes now 13) because being barefoot was hurting her. 
Along with other nonsense, i found this "A person wishing to lose weight". If it was easy to lose weight horse riding i'd be a size 0 now :lol:

A few scary things too... " The horse is always right ". Umm. Idk about you bro, but I have plenty of arguments with my human friends. 
If my human friends bit me, i'd bite them back too.

I think a statement about people wanting to be 'friends' with dogs applies much here as well.

If you treat your dog like a human, he will treat you like a dog.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Bobthebuilder said:


> I guess he has a few fair points, but its so very one sided.


Like most fanatical views - there is usually rationality buried underneath there somewhere!



> For example. Shoeing "Is looked upon as a good and necessary thing for any horse"


Don't get why you're commenting on(gather you found that on his site?) & don't agree with that point. 



> A few scary things too... " The horse is always right ". Umm. ....
> If you treat your dog like a human, he will treat you like a dog.


I think Tom Dorrance may have been the first to coin that one, that has been repeated by many & IMO is not and never was intended to be taken literally. I agree with it metaphorically speaking - meaning that a horse is a horse & will behave like one, which is... always right! Kind of like saying you can trust & rely on any horse 100%... to act like a horse!

I like your second point above, but think it would be better written .... "he will _STILL_ treat you like a dog!":wink:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

AlexS said:


> Pfft, that's just a kiss because his horses love him so much. It's a mutual respect thing. :lol::lol:


Haha-My first thought was that the horse was hugging him!:shock: Because he wubs him soooo much. Just hope the guy doesn't turn around.......:wink:

I also have one of those that has to be constantly reminded. Just when you think you can give him and inch......like him actually having the nerve to try and kick me yesterday while I was brushing him-with the SOFT brush. And yes, we had a CTJM. I did not think he was trying to hand me his foot.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Nevzorov has been discussed to death on this and other horse boards for years. The man's a total fruitcake. He initially had some decent ideas, then went off the deep end and his cheese completely slid off his cracker.

I don't know if the pictures are still on his website, but he looovvveeesss to talk about his horses mating and show pictures of them engaged in the act, while cooing about them being 'legal spouses', so add a tinge of bestiality into the mix.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

speed racer said:


> nevzorov has been discussed to death on this and other horse boards for years. The man's a total fruitcake. He initially had some decent ideas, then went off the deep end and his cheese completely slid off his cracker.
> 
> I don't know if the pictures are still on his website, but he looovvveeesss to talk about his horses mating and show pictures of them engaged in the act, while cooing about them being 'legal spouses', so add a tinge of bestiality into the mix.


ewwwwwww........


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

His idea behind treating horses with more respect instead of "riding things".. is good to a point. 

Again, delivery. 

If one looks at a horse herd, they aren't out there always snuggling up and being sweet. They respect one another's space, share bonds of mutual affection, but they also lay down the laws when needed. 

You can't just go 100% on mutual affection and forget about laying down the laws and respecting one another's space.. that, as Kayty alluded to and others as well, is a very unbalanced way of training.

I respect my horse, I respect his space; He respects me, he respects my space, and we share mutual affection sometimes.

That's how it should be, not just being kissy kissy with a horse and not respecting their space and they not respecting yours either. 
We all (may) know how it feels to be suffocated by a friend/special someone/family member/coworker/randomer that won't give us our space. We get testy and it can turn ugly. 

Respect is important. But so are boundaries.

Which is why some training methods I simply don't agree with, but I do learn something from each of them.


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## Bobthebuilder (Jan 8, 2012)

loosie said:


> Like most fanatical views - there is usually rationality buried underneath there somewhere!
> 
> Don't get why you're commenting on(gather you found that on his site?) & don't agree with that point.
> 
> ...


Sorry, the points are from his site, on this page: 
The difference of Nevzorov Haute Ecole from other schools and ways of horsemanship
And no, I dont agree with the 'all horses need shoeing' point either, which is why i mentioned it :lol:

Sorry I was unclear


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## Mckellar (Apr 18, 2012)

Very funny to read everyone's posts! If you ban things I would think to ban stupid people first. My 2cents on racing, with what it REALLY is to its core it's not a nice thing, I was explained this by a well known, experienced trainer who broke it down for me. But again there are horses who won't get into the gate or run....but I do not own race horses so I can't put judgement on something I know so little about


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

Looking at the gallery he has posted, anyone would think that all horse owners were evil. However, that is a TINY sampling of the some of the worst the horse world has to offer. 

When my horse looks up from reading the morning newspaper over coffee and says to me "you know, I really feel like you mistreated me all those years that we were riding partners," THEN I will feel as if what I did was slavery. But, since horses have been bred for a few thousand years to carry a rider and pull a cart rather than evolving to sit in a breakfast nook, sip coffee and read the Sunday paper, I rather doubt that is a conversation I need to worry about. 

My horse gets mad when I play with the pony but not her. She pouts when she is not worked for a few days. She dives into the halter or the bridle and all by drags me to the arena, prancing, when it is time for a lesson. Something tells me, she is not thinking of her cozy, clean, dry stall as a jail cell nor of her paddock as a prison camp.


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

Oh the Horror! From the Photo Gallery, "The Horrors of Equestrian Sport"


The horrors of equestrian sport: photogallery. (

I love the middle bottom picture. 


Yes I have beat my mare into learning how to run to the gate when she sees me and stuff her head into her halter and then by brute force taught her how to pick up the bit with her lips before even really being ready to put it on. 

Yes... So cruel to my girl.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

My horse actually enjoys being ridden and those pictures are definitely the worst of the absolute worst.. I do not treat my horse like that, EVER.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> and his cheese completely slid off his cracker.


Definitely another saying to remember!:lol::lol:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

This picture from his site may well qualify as a crime against fashion, but cruelty to horses?










I'm also unclear how this one shows cruelty to horses...seems like it might be the other way around:


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

bsms said:


> This picture from his site may well qualify as a crime against fashion, but cruelty to horses?


So what are you saying about my fashion sense? NOW I gotta go shopping for a new outfit!!!! :lol::lol:


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

bsms said:


> This picture from his site may well qualify as a crime against fashion, but cruelty to horses?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## HanginH (Mar 2, 2012)

Just had a look at the Horrors gallery posted above and could hardly believe my eyes seeing all these horrors! Think it pretty funny actually because the large majority of the pictures I saw didn't look like ther was much in the way of abuse. All to their own though I guess.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

BSMS..... that first shot is a true show of horse abuse.


The poor devil is so **** embarassed about the clown on it's back!!!!! It feel opressed, humiliated etc. The poor thing... someone call PETA!!!!!


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

I think he may be referencing the not "happy" expression on the horses face, but I really think that's more in relation to what is sitting on it's back...
I agree with Kayty and everyone else, it is definitely cruelty.:wink:


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

bsms said:


> This picture from his site may well qualify as a crime against fashion, but cruelty to horses?


Are you kidding?? That is the most blatant example of horse abuse yet!!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

As far as I know Nevzorov, it is more than likely that the gallery "faces of sportsmen" (which contains the rather innocent pictures you presented) is meant to show how ugly, clumsy, mean and stupid the riders are, compared to their horses. It is his style - to make himself shine by degrading others.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

This is deffinate horse abuse! 











I actually really like this picture V









He almost looks content that he put in a good ride and is now relaxing ​


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

...or he can't stand to look at the marshmallow standing next to him ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Ok and the point about him posting pics of his horses breeding, that's just weird...what a freak!! It brings to mind the Southpark episode where they go to the PETA camp lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

The horse above kind of looks like it's getting scratched in it's favorite spot. Same facial expression, nose pointed forward, neck stretched out.


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

He does, doesn't he? LOL


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## horseandme (Jun 4, 2012)

seriously? people now a days! No horse event is cruel unless you make it cruel!!!! get over your little animal abuse pitty party. All standard breds are NOT abused. Not all race horses are abused in fact most arent. I have never seen a a standardbred,barrel, jumper, or race horse that was not slick and shiny. What is cruel is letting a great horse waste away in the pasture without wormer,trimmed feet and food. Be a good rider,that is all we can do.


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