# Liberty Horsemanship



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

What are your thoughts on Liberty Horsemanship.

I think it is the best way (well for me) to get a bond and a respectful, trusting friendship with your horse. I am wanting to start doing liberty with Breeze, and I think I have a fairly good start. Breeze already trusts me enough to let me walk up to her when she is laying down, she comes when I call her, and she follows me around. I know there is a lot more to that in Liberty horsemanship, but this is just for a start.

Do any of you do liberty horse training with your horses? What are your thoughts on it? What is a good way to start?


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I started one horse at liberty and did this for quite some time before putting a halter on him. He'd been haltered many times but I wanted it to be done differently, better.


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

I am trying to get a better relationship with Breeze.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Pull up a chair with a book/magazine and read. You could also toss some hay a few feet away. Reading takes your mind off the horse which it senses and she may come and really check you out. If she gets uncomfortably close just move your chair and read again. When my horses was learning to relax I sat rather low, on a tire. He approached from behind and gave me a good going over with his nose, nuzzling my hair and ear. I started laughing and couldn't help but look at him. And what did he do-blew his nose in my face. Ain't love grand! Doing this is valuable time spent with the horse. Your saying "I'm here" and you are asking nothing in return.


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Come spring I will be doing that!


----------



## livelovelaughride (Sep 13, 2011)

We had the indoor all to ourselves today, so I tried to play with my guy. I admit, he was confused. By play, I invited him to run around the arena with me. I guess no one's ever done that with him. He just stood there. We eventually got some kind of game on, but then, he's used to following me at liberty walk/trot/stand/come/yielding. This invitation was different. I wanted to dance around. He is pretty reserved and probably thought himself above it!


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi,

You say Liberty Horsemanship with capitals as if it's a particular 'brand'. I don't know anything about that, but I do like to develop relationships & train horses at liberty myself. I generally like to teach them at least the basics like this, before doing stuff on lead. I like to ensure they're playing my games because they want to, not because they're given no choice.:wink:


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks, and I only say Liberty Horsemanship with capitals because that is what I am reffering to. Just like when people talk about a movie, or a title of a book... I say Liberty Horsemanship, because it is what I am talking about.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Breezey, I know you can get some wicked cold. Even if you can manage 5 minutes, just stand beside the horse as tho you are another. Look where he looks, if he paws, you paw. Horses mimic each other. Don't touch him. You are respecting his space. And when you walk away he'll be thinking "ditsy broad". :smile:


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Okay so today I am going to go out there after lunch and bring a laun chair with me and just spend two or more hours just doing school work ( I am doing distance learning)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

I just got back, I was there for about 2.5 hours and in that time Breeze laid down right behind and let me pet her, she also followed me around didn't leave my side while I was doing my school, and I didn't at all put a halter on, it was her choice to stay with me.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Good girl but next time don't touch her as that changes the connection. It's hard not to. Horses don't touch each other unless it's for mutual grooming. You are building trust and showing her you can be there and ask nothing of her. That's a great friendship.


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Okay I will try not too, but Breeze, and another horse Bliss, were constantly bumping each other with their heads, or nipping each other just for fun. They were constantly touching each other, sometimes to get the other out of the way, but mostly just because they wanted too. I have a picture... He bumped her side and she is pushing him back.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Just for another opinion, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with touching/scratching, whatever, *so long as it's done respectfully*. So many people just do things TO horses, without considering whether they like/want/tolerate it. Horses don't touch eachother *much*, they don't feed eachother, they don't ride eachother or invent games... I think understanding & considering what's natural & unnatural for a horse is absolutely important, but at the end of the day, just because a horse doesn't do something naturally is not good reason IMO not to do it.


----------



## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I love liberty...to me, it is not just part of their training, but our lifestyle together. It is our normal relationship...we are one herd and the horses' both respect the relationship whether it is with me and one of them or me with both of them together. I am always keeping them guessing and wanting to ask me questions...keeping them interested in everything I/we do. I believe the relationship is most important, and often pushed aside, for the excitement of riding and fancy stuff.

Just because you are sitting still and quiet with a horse, doesn't mean that it is boring and you are not teaching anything. Some of those lessons are the most important.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Loosie, I agree about the touching, but that's later. It's just about time spent with the horse and asking nothing. It does make a difference in how our horses see us.


----------



## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

The most I've done is play cutting (Lucks good..lol) and lead without a lead.
I plan on doing a lot more with Luck and some more no lead work with ST for now.

But, figured I'd sub and hopefully get some pictures next time I'm out with Luck of us playing in the little indoor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

This is Breeze from Yesterday when I went out there:


















She will follow me around and was playing with the ball and other horses, and creeping on me and stuff


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Iseul, getting your horse to stand still is fun. No halter. Stand in front of the horse, barely to it's left, hold your hand up like a stop sign and say "stand". Place your left hand on the neck and start walking down it's side with your hand sliding along it's back. If the horse moves, go back up front and start again. When you can make a complete circle repeat only move just out of reach and circle. Before you are done with teaching this, you should be able to ask the horse to stand and walk a huge circle around it. This then advances to leaving, grabbing a carrot and hiding it and if he's still standing he gets the reward. If he moves a step, put him back and again leave and return. When he gets the reward, leave him alone for a few minutes by walking else where and having your back to him. When the horse is solid with this, you can groom, saddle, pick hooves without being tied. The more freedom we give them, the better they stay.


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Okay, I will try that, but my horse doesn't like treats, she doesn't like apples, carrots, or anything like that, so I just pet her.


----------



## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Saddlebag, that's how I taught Luck to ground tie. Halter/lead was on, but never really used unless she moved.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It is most effective if the horse is at liberty (no halter or rope around the neck) in a large paddock. A horse wearing a halter creates a false connection. I found it funny that altho I was working with one particular horse, the other joined us, standing beside the first, and followed my direction. It mean I had to circle both of them so I wound up training two at the same time instead of one. This was not planned, it just happened. My most commonly used treat is a broken alfalfa cube or a small handful of pellets.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^^Yeah, gets a bit confusing sometimes:lol:. Re teaching to stay, I taught 3 paddock mates once & they all soon got it that they had to stand in their respective places & wait for me to come to them for reinforcement! But yes, I generally take one out to train, otherwise they're all saying 'look at me! I'm doing it too!':lol:


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I had to buy a steel round pen, not to work the one horse in but to keep the other one out. He was too hard on the wooden fencing trying to join us. It's not that he's so stuck on the other horse, he likes being with people and thinks he's missing out on something.


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

That is the complete opposite with the other horses in Breeze pen! I can work with Breeze anywhere because she is not herd bound, and loves people more then other horses, but one of the other horses stays at the hay all the time, and even though the other gets curios, he is a terror to be caught! You need 2 people to catch him and as soon as you take off the halter, he is gone! I am thankful Breeze comes, and practically catches herself!


----------



## JaphyJaphy (Nov 15, 2012)

loosie said:


> ^^Yeah, gets a bit confusing sometimes:lol:. Re teaching to stay, I taught 3 paddock mates once & they all soon got it that they had to stand in their respective places & wait for me to come to them for reinforcement! But yes, I generally take one out to train, otherwise they're all saying 'look at me! I'm doing it too!':lol:


Haha, this reminds me of my mare. When I go to catch a horse other than her she circles around me and follows me, waiting for me to catch her, and eventually figures out that I'm not there for her. Cue mare glare.  When I have another horse in the round pen she will stand there on the outside and watch, too. Silly girl.


----------



## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

JaphyJaphy said:


> Haha, this reminds me of my mare. When I go to catch a horse other than her she circles around me and follows me, waiting for me to catch her, and eventually figures out that I'm not there for her. Cue mare glare.  When I have another horse in the round pen she will stand there on the outside and watch, too. Silly girl.


My mare does the EXACT same thing lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

loosie said:


> You say Liberty Horsemanship with capitals as if it's a particular 'brand'.


I have an late 1980's video on loose lunging and it was called, "Liberty Training."


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Breezy2011 said:


> You need 2 people to catch him and as soon as you take off the halter, he is gone!


No you don't. It's just that the poor boy has learned that coming to people or allowing himself to be caught is Terrible and having people trap him will have only reinforced that belief:wink:


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

Its the only way to catch him... He is not my horse, but I have worked with him, and ridden him. All his life, right from go, he has been hard to catch, he is 7 years old, and since he was a yearling, or even younger, he did not like to be caught. He rears just for fun (with somebody or by himself, or with other horses) bolts, and is really stubborn, but he has been getting better, and was a good riding horse for a long time before he was left for a few years. 

It is not that he doesn't like being caught, or that we trap him, it is just because he doesn't want the halter on. He will let you walk up to him with no ropes, no halter. 

He is a great horse, he just needs work.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Breezy2011 said:


> he did not like to be caught. ...It is not that he doesn't like being caught, or that we trap him, it is just because he doesn't want the halter on.


Yeah, he has probably never been given a chance(trained) to see halters & ropes as Good Things.:wink:


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

I don't know about that, but I do know what he is like, he is a very smart horse, once he has the halter on, he is willing to do anything I know the owner who owned him previously, and the owner of him now, I have known the horse personally for the last 4-5 years (by personally, I mean working, and being around him often) just the last 2 years I was actually working with him, just me, and I got him to come when he saw me, he was actually looking forword to being caught, mainly because I would give him a treat once he was caught.


----------



## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

Saddlebag said:


> ...If she gets uncomfortably close just move your chair and read again...


Hello Saddlebag

I am wondering if you know of any methods of keeping yourself safe when reading in your horses paddock if your solution mentioned in the above quote does not work. I have many times before attempted to read or study in my mares paddock, however whenever I sit down (on a chair or the ground) she immediately comes and stands almost directly over me. This is of course, rather unnerving so I would get up, and walk away. She would follow (nothing unusual about that, she is quite social) at the usual just-out-of-arms-reach distance, wait until I sat down again and stand over me in the same way. By close, I mean her hoovies next to my toes and her neck blotting out the sun close, and unless I get up and shoo her away, she will stand in this position for as long as I sit there, even into hours.

I don't believe she is doing this as a sort pushy-bargy behaviour, as she has a very good sense of space and has never rubbed on me, stepped or my toes or tried to push me. My personal theory (altho I am open to others) is that she is mimicking the behaviour of a pair of horses relaxing naturally, one lies down while the other stands and watches for possible predators. Obviously I am the one lying down.


Now, while I do not think my horse would ever intentionally stand on me, I am well aware that if she got a large fright it may be dangerous to be that close to her, especially as I am not paying attention her very much at all.
It is dangerous to be so close to such a large animal while in such a vulnerable position. I hold no objection to her wanting to hang out with me while I am in her paddock (this is, of course, the point of the exercise) however it would be nice if she wouldn't stand so close.

Moving away doesn't help, and I dislike sending her forcefully away as (like I mentioned earlier)I think she thinks she is doing me a favour in being so nearby. So I am wondering if you have any other ideas (since you have obviously read or relaxed in horses paddocks may times before) of how to both enjoy this time with my mare and still stay reasonably safe?

Thank you for taking the time to read and reply to this statement. If I have misinterpreted your first comments in anyway I apologize, and if you need me to clarify on anyone of my points just ask and I will be happy to do so.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

iRide Ponies said:


> I am wondering if you know of any methods of keeping yourself safe when reading in your horses paddock


I'll pipe in... that 'if the horse gets too close you move' depends on what's going on - I might, but I might also ask *them* to move out of *my* space, rather than let them get in my face & dictate the moves. Not chasing them away, just 'swatting flies' or such to keep them at a 'respectful' distance.



> whenever I sit down (on a chair or the ground) she immediately comes and stands almost directly over me. ... By close, I mean her hoovies next to my toes and her neck blotting out the sun close,


I personally would think about what a 'safe distance' for your 'personal space' is (eg. close enough to blot the sun is great if you ask me, on a hot day!) & be consistent about not allowing her closer. Depends on the horse too & mood they're in tho.



> I don't believe she is doing this as a sort pushy-bargy behaviour, as she has a very good sense of space and has never rubbed on me, stepped or my toes or tried to push me. My personal theory (altho I am open to others) is that she is mimicking the behaviour of a pair of horses relaxing


I think you're right & sound like she is respectful & considerate of you & I wouldn't personally worry about it:wink:



> I dislike sending her forcefully away as (like I mentioned earlier)I think she thinks she is doing me a favour in being so nearby.


If you feel unsafe with her that close, you need to do something about it, for both of your peace of mind - she'll know you're a bit edgy about something too. But yes, it can be a fine line not to 'offend' them. I just tend to wave my arm(rope, whatever) around a bit - 'swat at flies', not directly at the horse, not only when she's too close, etc & they take it as it's meant - not grumpy with you, just that you'd better stay out of 'swatting' reach if you don't want to get *yourself* bumped.


----------



## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

Thank you loosie, for your advice. I will try it tomorrow night.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

You can also keep a stick/crop handy and ask her to step back a bit. She's doing what horses do, keeping guard while you rest. If I lay on the lawn my shetland mare would slip thro the fence and stand guard over me. Have you noticed how relaxed she is while you read? If she were to partner with another horse she'd be standing quite close. With mine there is often barely 6" between them and that is their allowable space.


----------



## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

My horses do the same thing, sometimes both at the same time with me. I LOVE to sit in the pasture with them and just observe sometimes. My percheron will hover over me. She is ohhhh so slow and gentle when doing it. You barely see her move when she inches up to me. She will tower her neck over me. If she inches a little too close with her belly or chest, I put pressure there with my hand or foot and she moves, very slowly. Then my pinto will come over and the three of us just sit quietly. I can rub each of them while they hover quietly, and they will groom eachother at the same time. During this time, they have always been very respectful of me and eachother as well, there has never been jelousy, and any fireworks between the two of them are saved until I leave. I've always felt that they have accepted me as their herd leader. It is very relaxing to me. But, part of being the leader is calling the shots....so if I felt they were too close for my comfort, I would let them know it and they will adapt to whatever your wishes are.


----------



## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

Saddlebag, Oldhorselady, Yes she is very relaxed.


----------



## andimax (Jun 26, 2011)

So what exactly is liberty horsemanship. I hear the term a lot often but not sure what it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

andimax said:


> So what exactly is liberty horsemanship. I hear the term a lot often but not sure what it is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Liberty Horsemanship is like playing with your horse in a respectful manner. You can get a better relationship with your horse, along with more respect and trust because your horse can choose to stay with you, or leave. The ultimate goal for liberty is to get your horse with no halter in a larger area (a big pasture of something) and have it stay with you the entire time, but still have the choice to leave you. It is also like dancing with your horse, you can look it up on youtube.com


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

andimax said:


> So what exactly is liberty horsemanship. I hear the term a lot often but not sure what it is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just that - doing whatever with your horse at liberty - no strings attached - or big, round, close fences involved:wink:


----------



## KyMoMoF3CuTiEs (Feb 5, 2013)

Subbing *
Learning so much!! I bought a mare about three weeks ago and I have been doing this somewhat. I have been going out and just hanging out with both my girls. They eat and do whatever. They have came up to me and been nosey so I do rub them. But I am going to start learning how to better myself!! This is great!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xoxoNohea (Jun 25, 2012)

I love liberty training I have been having an issue getting Nohea to back up so I left it up to him to do in his time. I was working with my new little guy, Luke, yesterday and asking him to back up, which he did with no problem so I gave him a treat. I looked over and Nohea was standing there glaring at me and I said to him "He backed up that's why he got a treat" and right at that point what does Nohea do? He backed up with out skipping a beat, and backed up every time after that when I asked him. I guess he finally had the motivation to prove he can back up or he's just jealous. Haha!


----------



## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

By the way, Nohea, horses, as herd animals, learn extensively from what they observe in their peers. So, if you train a horse with other horses present and watching attentively, they are more likely to learn a new behavior more easily. That's how I've taught my own and other horses a couple of things and I always like having a youngster or a less experienced horse in the arena while I'm teaching someone more experienced.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When working with one horse at liberty the other will watch for a bit then join us. Altho my focus is on the first, the second is eager to participate so I wind up working/playing with both.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Saranda said:


> By the way, Nohea, horses, as herd animals, learn extensively from what they observe in their peers. So, if you train a horse with other horses present and watching attentively, they are more likely to learn a new behavior more easily.


That's a hotly debated topic - whether or not horses do learn by example. My personal feeling is that they don't really, not specifics, but they do pick up on the feelings that go with it... so will be more or less motivated & in a learning frame of mind depending on the attitude of the horse before them.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Loosie, from your statement I just realized that because our focus in on horse A, horse B senses this and decides to partake. If the focus switched to B I wonder if he'd be as eager. Hmmm, food for thought. Thanks


----------



## Morrisson (Feb 18, 2013)

I think working at liberty with your horse is one of the best things you can do, especially for improving your relationship. I start by just playing with my horses and hanging out in there paddock, making sure that they enjoy my company. I do a lot with them on the ground in a halter, but I make sure that their work stays very varied so they never become bored. However, if you have a nervous horse who likes to run repitition of the same exercises can be a great way for them to settle down and relax, whereas a slower horse with less 'go' will often quickly become bored with doing the exercises over and over again. Once your horse enjoys your company and respects you as a leader then he should follow you around without a halter, but for doing finer points of liberty, I will train them with just a halter on or other VERY basic equiptment, and train them to respond to the lightest of cues, which starts with body language. Once this is established it isn't such a big deal to remove the halter and continue doing the same thing at liberty. Practise disengaging your horses hind quaters, this way if when at liberty your horse should try to walk away from you, simply disengage the hindquaters until they are facing you again. Always start with liberty in an inclosed area should anything go wrong, and remember to ask for little bits at a time, and remove any pressure as soon as they respond in a positive way.


----------



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

loosie said:


> That's a hotly debated topic - whether or not horses do learn by example. My personal feeling is that they don't really, not specifics, but they do pick up on the feelings that go with it... so will be more or less motivated & in a learning frame of mind depending on the attitude of the horse before them.


Honestly I think they do learn from example. I taught my pony to take his halter off the hook and hand it to me. I've sense been trying to unteach this adorably obnoxious skill -.- As he quickly learned that if he (my 9 hand 450 pound pony) took his halter and swung it at my 1350 pound draft mare - she'd run away. He thought this was just _hilarious_ until she grabbed her halter and swung it at him. Luckily both of them are dumb enough to drop their halters after the first 'throw'. So now, every day I come home and find two halters in the middle of the barn floor. -.-'
But I never taught my mare anything to do with touching or grabbing her halter, she definitely learned that from him. 

While I agree it's not easy for horses to pick up skills just from watching - but I do think - if they're paying attention - they are thinking about it. Just not putting 2+2 together until it's their turn to learn the skill. But when working with my little herd of minis/ponies at the rescue I'll teach one to back up and the next - who was watching - picks it up 10 times faster.


----------



## andimax (Jun 26, 2011)

awesome. I would love to do this with both my horses but i feel that my mare will be alot easier. She follows me around EVERYWHERE.she and i have a way closer bond then me and my gelding.. how do get i get started. what are the steps u take?


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

PunksTank said:


> learned that if he (my 9 hand 450 pound pony) took his halter and swung it at my 1350 pound draft mare - she'd run away. He thought this was just _hilarious_ until she grabbed her halter and swung it at him. Luckily both of them are dumb enough to drop their halters after the first 'throw'. So now, every day I come home and find two halters in the middle of the barn floor. -.-'
> But I never taught my mare anything to do with touching or grabbing her halter, she definitely learned that from him.


That's hilarious... & would make a great act - teach them to lunge eachother! I'm going to have a go!:lol::lol: Yup, examples like that make me not so sure of my last comments!:wink: Not that I've found it the case with my horses - I taught my boy to get his halter & he does when he sees me or hears me coming to the paddock, but pony hasn't ever done so. With the big 'soccer ball', the horse likes to push it with his nose & the pony likes to bite it & climb on it. Had to actively teach them to do what eachother does.


----------



## xoxoNohea (Jun 25, 2012)

Saranda, I actually tried to teach Nohea to back up by having my mother's horse back up as an example, but Maverick is a bully and Nohea is always tense around him. I think he was more willing to pay attention to Luke because they are both lower in the pecking order and get along well.


----------



## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Does your herd have a leading horse? Not a dominating bully type, but a wise, silent leader - usually it's an experienced mare who is able to control the movement, grazing and other activities of a herd by a sole gaze. Horses tend to follow the leaders naturally and as such the leaders are much better to teach others something. When I use this method, I choose a horse who is in a leading position above the one I want to show something to, for example - to teach my dominant bully the Spanish walk, I did it with the lead mare in front of him, to show something to a timid, passive horse in the lower pecking order, I did it with a calm horse who is above him, yet not too dominating and not feared, etc. These learning pairs have to be matched to work, methinks, and it is a good thought to bond such horses by taking walks with both of them in trails or just hanging around together - for example, keeping one of them in the arena while working with the other, feeding together, going on a trail ride on one and ponying the other along, etc. Of course, in order for the horses to bond better, the human involved has to be a good leader himself - basically, it is a making of a micro herd.


----------

