# How to improve my position



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You have a good beginning. You look a little bit stiff and I don't see your weight in your heels. Keeping your body as close to the saddle as possible is where you keep your balance while jumping.
I suggest lots of hours riding in 2-point until it is 2nd nature. People can tell you where to put your hands and how to keep your back flat, but balance is balance. This will make you a very good rider over jumps.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

It looks like you are jumping ahead of your horse, and are too far forward. Isnt' your crotch supposed to stay behind the front edge of the pommel? The last photo is the best, so it looks like you are improving, for sure.


----------



## Gossalyn (Sep 12, 2013)

My leased horse, when she lands a jump she always goes a little forward / lands very 'down' - and it always throws me, other horses are much smoother. (if this is what you mean?) My trainer said I just really have to keep my shoulders back and sit up a little more (not butt to saddle distance but like body angle wise, is how i understood it) to get used to it.

I can't critique much as I'm not so great myself. to me it looks like you have some weight in your heels but now I'm learning you really want to be able to get a good angle on that ankle and really stretch the calf... so i've been stretching my ankles under my desk at work trying to get them to bend easier.  ha. 

-newbie.


----------



## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

You are jumping to forward and coming out of the saddle too much.


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Open your shoulders a bit more, and sink into your heels. Also, work on your release a bit more.


----------



## jagman6201 (Mar 13, 2009)

What I see is the root of your problem is you grip with your calves and pinch at the knee a bit over the jumps to stop your leg from swinging back when you thrust your upper body forward. You otherwise have a very solid core and posture. 

I would work on "two pointing" at every gate. But instead of TRYING to hold your two point, adjust your leg position (make sure your feet are correct in the stirrup, it's amazing how much of a difference that will make) until you more or less feel secure - where you aren't necessarily working in your leg and thigh to "stand".

Try this while off the horse. Spread your legs as if you were on a horse (around 2 feet apart) and just "squat" a bit, feel the weight pushing down towards your feet (slightly on the ball of your foot, as if they were placed in an iron) and just hold it and memorize that stability. You want to then replicated that on top of your horse which come from depending on your stirrup and sinking down and around your horse.

You will develop a stronger leg, which will complement your already steady core and make your jumping position solid and active.


----------



## allboutjess (Aug 13, 2012)

Here are some new updated pictures!


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

As food for thought, I'll submit a picture of Gen Patton. Notice his center of gravity vs his stirrups. I don't jump, so maybe this style is out of style:


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^You also have to keep in mind that men and women have a different center of gravity.
Though, I really wasn't sure where you were going with that, haha.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

bsms said:


> As food for thought, I'll submit a picture of Gen Patton. Notice his center of gravity vs his stirrups. I don't jump, so maybe this style is out of style:
> 
> ​


That style was effective and I think put less weight on the horses forehand than we see in some of the over exaggerated forward seats in jumping today
OP I think you need to try to relax, allow your weight to sink down into your heels without actually using the stirrups like pedals and standing up in them
Mostly I think you're trying too hard to get that forward seat and end up flinging yourself ahead of the horses movement
I found 2 videos of very different jumping courses (one from the UK and one from the US) and very different ponies but in both cases the riders are quite restrained in how far forward they get & keep a nice secure seat and leg position
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZGEj9Xm8Dc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieYcM5fFHPI


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Look at the angle of your thighs in each photo. The last photo in your original post has a nice compressed *springy* angle. That's what you want. The closer your butt is to the seat, the more compressed your thighs are. The farther, the more stretched out they are. 

Jumping ahead unbalances your horse. Staying in the saddle region will be a lot safer and easier for your horse.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Zexious said:


> ^You also have to keep in mind that men and women have a different center of gravity.
> Though, I really wasn't sure where you were going with that, haha.


Since I don't jump, I cannot say what works jumping a fence. However, I did ride with a forward seat until switching to a western saddle in late November. For me to feel secure and balanced when my horse got funky, I needed to keep my knees slightly loose and feel the contact in my calves, not my knees. 

This was written in the 30s by Harry Chamberlin, who "was assigned to Fort Riley's Horsemanship Department and went on to compete at the 1920 Olympic Games with his mount *****. He was then sent to Europe to train for two years, the first year at the French Cavalry School in Saumur, and the second at the Italian Cavalry School in Tor di Quinto. While in Italy, he was introduced to the forward seat, which he brought back to the United States..." (Wiki)










Since it was written roughly 80 years ago, styles and thoughts on jumping may have changed. But for me, riding a somewhat nervous mare but not jumping intentionally, I found keeping my center of gravity above my heels a pretty secure position. My biggest problem was a tendency to grip with my knees, which created a pivot point. Then my feet would sling back, my body would go forward and I would be in a bad position if she spun or hopped.

Again, I do not jump so the OP will have to decide if this advice is worthwhile or hogwash for her needs. I wish her well regardless!


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

bsms said:


> Since I don't jump, I cannot say what works jumping a fence. However, I did ride with a forward seat until switching to a western saddle in late November. For me to feel secure and balanced when my horse got funky, I needed to keep my knees slightly loose *and feel the contact in my calves, not my knees. *


BSMS
That is what we mean by not pinching/gripping with the knees and keeping weight down the inside of the leg (as well as wrapping legs around horse)

Everything is compromised when one grips with their knees because the leg swings back, rider tips forward, weight can't stay down.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Your knees need to be against the saddle but not gripping it -that's when the pivot thing happens
Your biggest muscle strength should be in your thighs and your core


----------



## allboutjess (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks for the tips!


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

There's one tweak that will fix a bunch of things fast. You need to fold more at the hips and release more, but the good part is, those two things are completely connected. For every inch you reach forward to release, your butt should be going to the rear of the saddle, (ie closing your hip angle). You can practice it at the halt, walk, trot and canter. At the halt and walk, practice it like you are stretching. Slowing reach your hands forward up the horse's neck and let your hips fold so your butt can come back toward the cantle. 

If you can get that into your muscle memory, all you will have to do on approach to your fences is sink into the saddle, sit tall and let the horse's jump produce the closing of your hip angle and release. Hope that helps.


----------



## allboutjess (Aug 13, 2012)

I never thought about this but I have lots of videos of me riding on Youtube I would love for you guys to check them out and make critiques. Here is my latest one. I have a lesson tonight and will be making another video soon. P.S. I (Jesse) am on my bay horse (Maddie) and my friend (Jill) is on her lease horse (Gem). Feel free to make corrects for both of us and our horses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTGj4xpvTt0


----------



## allboutjess (Aug 13, 2012)

Bump


----------



## picup436 (Nov 22, 2012)

allboutjess said:


> I never thought about this but I have lots of videos of me riding on Youtube I would love for you guys to check them out and make critiques. Here is my latest one. I have a lesson tonight and will be making another video soon. P.S. I (Jesse) am on my bay horse (Maddie) and my friend (Jill) is on her lease horse (Gem). Feel free to make corrects for both of us and our horses.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTGj4xpvTt0



The video was quite difficult for me to see well, but you look like you are riding with a long stirrup, and while your horse is nice and relaxed, the quality of the canter needs improvement. In a few of your approaches your horse seems like it's almost stalling in it's approach. So more leg, and try to not take your seat quite so forwards. Think about folding through the hip, rather than standing in your stirrups, if that makes sense. 

The best thing I have ever done for my position was to strengthen my core and lower body. Squats, lunges, hip thrusts are great for lower body, and a stability ball workout is great for balance and core strength. BUT! Don't start an exercise program without seeing a professional first, especially if you have any underlying injuries or issues that may be aggravated by certain exercises.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

As has already been said, you are gripping too much with your knees. When you do this, it makes it almost impossible to wrap your leg around the barrel of the horse so that you can put the inside of your calf (not the back of your calf) on the horse. 

When your lower leg comes off the horse, it will swing back. When this happens, there is no way to balance the weight of your upper body and it will want to topple forward. Then, instead of keeping a soft contact with the horse's mouth, you HAVE to do a crest release to prop up your upper body.

It all starts at being able to relax your knees. Then your leg can softly wrap around the gorse and you can keep contact with your lower leg AND keep it forward, at the girth, where it belongs.

When your lower leg can stay forward, it can act like a counterbalance for your upper body and you will be balanced enough not to have to prop yourself up with your hands. You can also relax your ankle and sink down into your stirrups.

So, it STARTS by fixing your knees and keeping your lower legs forward at the girth. Everything else is dependent on that.

A great exercise is to trot for MILES in your two point without using your hands. Have them out like an airplane (have someone lunge you?). This will force you to bring your lower leg up, where it belongs, or you will fall forward. You will have to push your lower leg forward until the back of your leg burns!

I'll use some of MY bad riding examples to explain....(Hey, we can't be perfect all of the time....



My avatar photo shows me in a fairly decent, though not perfect, position. My knees are soft and my lower leg is on, my toes are pointed mostly forward (keeping the inside of my leg on and my spurs off). While it looks like my leg has slipped away from the girth, the ideal is to have the leg counterbalance the upper body, which it is here. If I were in this position, on the ground, I would not fall forward. If my leg was further forward, I would probably fall behind the motion of the horse and my weight would fall back.




On this photo I am a little too far ahead of the saddle. My knee is stiff and I am gripping a bit too much. As a result, my lower leg has slipped back more than ideal. I am still in decent balance, though, and my crest release isn't being used to prop myself up.




Now come a really ugly position I am not proud of. I don't often have my ankles really down, as I have broken both my legs and they just are not too flexible. But the REAL problem is that I have a death grip with my knees, and my leg has gone WAY too far back. As a result, my upper body has toppled forward and I am propping myself with my crest release. In all honesty, my stirrups were too long and this was one of the causative factors.....




Anyway, try the no hands work a LOT and get to where keeping your knee soft and lower leg forward feels natural. Try to work toward the first photo and grow away from the last one!!


----------

