# Looking for a trail horse for a beginner



## ognend (Sep 3, 2009)

Hello,

I am in my thirties, my wife and I adopted two horses a year ago. We spent thousands of dollars (and I mean over ten grand) in training of both horses. Sought out John Lyons certified people, local people etc. After a year of training us and the horses, we still have one horse that got into the habit of rearing when he does not like something and another horse that braces on the bit when there is something more interesting for him to do. Our trainer swears up and down that we got great trail horses even after seeing my horse rear up several times when asked to cross a small puddle. I call bulls**t on that. So, I decided that I am sick and tired of horse trainers and training in general. What I am looking for now is a reputable farm/ranch that is in the business of producing trail horses and will stand behind them. The trail horses are their only source of income and they ride the horses almost every day for hours to the trails. The horse(s) have seen it all, done it all, they will take care of their rider the best they can.

I understand that any horse can spook or do silly things. But if my horse violently rears and kicks in my backyard when asked to do the smallest things - what is left for me on the trail?

The ranch/farm can be anywhere in the USA. This time I will take the time, travel to the ranch, spend a few days there riding the prospect on the trails before I buy. I feel that any reputable place should allow for that kind of a test.

So, how about it? Any recommendation or leads?

Thanks,
OD in Florida


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## ChevyPrincess (Aug 27, 2009)

Wow, Flordia is a ways from where I am! One of my horses came from Ohio (she is bombproof!) My mom's paint gelding is 5, but we got him when he was 2 and rode everywhere! He does spook, but luckily, he spooks in place. He was trained originally to be a cutting horse. He is a big baby. He was trained here in OK. The horse I am about to get, is a 2 year old Appy. Also trained here in OK and I am going back to ride him again today. he is a gentle boy.

I am sorry you had sorry luck with the horse rescue things. I don't of any other places except around OK. But that is a LONG ways. Have you tried looking on Horsetopia, or EquineNow? They are really good websites. The only place around here I can think of that specializes in trail horses is a ranch that trains Missouri Fox Trotters. And there is a place in Wilson, OK. She advertizes, but never go there. She lies, me friend got a horse from her that was supposed to be kid-safe. As soon as my friend got on him, he took off and threw her.


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## jxclass19 (Feb 1, 2009)

I do not have a ranch but one of our mares came off of one. She is amazing! Anyone can ride her on the trails or in the arena. Run the barrels on her(and win) then take her into a pleasure class(an win) then walk right down the trail all in one day and she will give you great rides each time. I am all the way in MI though.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Check out this place: Horses Offered or LaCense - Ranch


I have heard nothing but good about them.


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## ognend (Sep 3, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Check out this place: Horses Offered or LaCense - Ranch
> 
> 
> I have heard nothing but good about them.


Thanks! Their horses look awesome. A bit pricey but you get what you pay for, another lesson I learned in the horse world...


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

ognend said:


> Thanks! Their horses look awesome. A bit pricey but you get what you pay for, another lesson I learned in the horse world...


This summer I bought a grade Paint(looks like there's some Arab in there to me) for under $500. for my granddaughter, who has had great fear issues. She had to get over her worry that he might do something wrong. I rode him in the Flinthills, down my back roads, and in a parade to be sure he was safe for her. He is great....... Could someone mess him up and turn him into a nutcase? Heck yes.......... 

Just wanted to say the cost of the animal isn't always a testimony to their suitablility.

Good luck in your search. While you're at it, be sure you learn all you can about the language of the horse.


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## ognend (Sep 3, 2009)

Appyt said:


> This summer I bought a grade Paint(looks like there's some Arab in there to me) for under $500. for my granddaughter, who has had great fear issues. She had to get over her worry that he might do something wrong. I rode him in the Flinthills, down my back roads, and in a parade to be sure he was safe for her. He is great....... Could someone mess him up and turn him into a nutcase? Heck yes..........
> 
> Just wanted to say the cost of the animal isn't always a testimony to their suitablility.
> 
> Good luck in your search. While you're at it, be sure you learn all you can about the language of the horse.


Hi,

I paid someone a lot of money to teach me and my horse. It took a lot of time, I work full time so every single weekend I trailered across the state to learn and I even spent my two week vacation learning and working with the horse. I think I put in a lot more time than a lot of people usually do when playing with horses because I have never been around them and I am not stupid enough to just jump on the first one and go on the trail, don't want to be a statistic. I genuinely think trail riding can be safe. But at the same time, I don't want to be a trainer, I just want a good horse that I don't have to worry about.

The "language of the horse"? Well, I tried learning it and this is what I understand from my horse's violent rearing and kicking when I ask him to go through the puddles: Me: "Go". Horse: "No...". Me: "Go!". Horse: "Screw you! I ain't going! I am scared and I don't trust you". Me: "Go!". Horse: "I am SCARED!!!!". Horse reacts and the rest is history. Now, if this was any horse I would be fine. But mine happened to have months of training and the trainer swore up and down he was safe for the trail. Even being a beginner I can see that my horse is not ready for the trail (at least not with me on his back) and I would be crazy to just jump on him and go.

By the way, my horse was a rescue and he didn't cost much (before the training).

The fact that you bought a $500 horse and it worked out is great! But, you seem to have been around horses more than me so you can a) judge the horse and b) stay on him when/if he rears/bucks/kicks with you on top. If my brother/father/mother/aunt/uncle were horse people, I would take any of their horses and ride them, no questions asked. For the rest of us who don't have relatives and best friends to find us that precious horse who will take care of us, we pay people to teach us and train our animals. Many of those people turn out to be backyard hacks who are in it just to take your money and people like me are easy pray.


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## BerkleysTops (Feb 13, 2009)

Hi ~ I got my Spotted Saddle horse who is a wonderful trail horse from a farm in Virginia by the name of Bailey's Walking-After-Midnight Farm (formerly Black Widow Farm). They invite you to come and spend a couple of days with them and ride the trails there. They also stand behind the horse you purchase - if you aren't happy you can trade for another. I couldn't be happier with my guy. Website is www.walkingaftermidnight.com. Good luck with your search!


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## BerkleysTops (Feb 13, 2009)

Forgot to mention they specialize in helping beginners find a horse that suits them. And believe me, I am a beginner ......


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## BerkleysTops (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm so sorry - I gave you the wrong link - it's www.blackwidowfarm.com.


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## lovehorses007 (Sep 14, 2009)

Does anybody know about this site? I am also a beginner looking into buying a bomb proof or safe trail horse.

www.heavengaitsfarm.com


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Ognend, I am sorry you got burned. I simply meant some people pay a high price for a horse expecting them to be perfect and it often happens that the price does not make perfect. 

I also don't think rescues in general are necessarily good choices for beginners. I commend your wanting to find the right type horse by going to the source.

Oh, and I don't ride buckers, rearers, or general snotty fit throwers. I like em calm and easygoing. If they are too naughty, they don't stay here.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

lovehorses007 said:


> Does anybody know about this site? I am also a beginner looking into buying a bomb proof or safe trail horse.
> 
> www.heavengaitsfarm.com


Your link didn't work for me.


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## lovehorses007 (Sep 14, 2009)

sorry here is the correct link

Heavens Gait Farm Tennessee Walking Horses


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## ognend (Sep 3, 2009)

BerkleysTops said:


> Forgot to mention they specialize in helping beginners find a horse that suits them. And believe me, I am a beginner ......


Thank you very much. I have come across their website but did not spend much time on it. After what you wrote I will give it a more serious look. Thanks again!


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## BerkleysTops (Feb 13, 2009)

You are very welcome! They invited me to come there and spend a few days but I found my guy pretty quickly. Call & ask for Melissa & she'll give you all kinds of help. If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message. I know how hard it is to go about choosing the right horse without experience. Best advice is to have someone with you who you can trust.....


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Good luck 

What I wonder tho is why both your horses has bad habits..can it depend on your attitude anything you do that provoke it from them? If it is, it might not help changing horse untill you know what's causing it. Horses generally don't do things to just annoy the rider, their behaviour is always triggered by something.
Perhaps it's just a very bad match and a different horse will work much better.. but it wouldn't hurt to analyse what might have caused the problem and why it's not solved despite all the trainers. Are they good with the trainers but get bad when you've had them a while? Because then there is something you do that the horses tries to escape from. Not trying to blame, just to help, it'd be sad to spend time, love and energy on new horses and have the same thing happen again.


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## ognend (Sep 3, 2009)

BerkleysTops said:


> You are very welcome! They invited me to come there and spend a few days but I found my guy pretty quickly. Call & ask for Melissa & she'll give you all kinds of help. If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message. I know how hard it is to go about choosing the right horse without experience. Best advice is to have someone with you who you can trust.....


Ah yes, trust. I am lacking in that nowadays , my experience turned me into a cynic. One other thing to beware of is that some friends will offer to help you find a horse and they will ride them for you but the same friends might have different definitions of safety than you. For example, a friend of mine offered to ride any horse for me to determine if they are suitable, but she has ridden all her life and in her definition of horsemanship it is OK to be bucked off every now and then, it is OK if your horse rears every now and then etc etc. She has the best intentions but is not what I am looking for. I actually think (with all my beginner naivette) that being bucked off or reared on should not happen, ever. If it does, there better be a grizzly bear 20 feet away from me and my horse charging at us. Am I crazy in expecting this?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

ognend said:


> Ah yes, trust. I am lacking in that nowadays , my experience turned me into a cynic. One other thing to beware of is that some friends will offer to help you find a horse and they will ride them for you but the same friends might have different definitions of safety than you. For example, a friend of mine offered to ride any horse for me to determine if they are suitable, but she has ridden all her life and in her definition of horsemanship it is OK to be bucked off every now and then, it is OK if your horse rears every now and then etc etc. She has the best intentions but is not what I am looking for. I actually think (with all my beginner naivette) that being bucked off or reared on should not happen, ever. If it does, there better be a grizzly bear 20 feet away from me and my horse charging at us. Am I crazy in expecting this?


 
I have been riding for 25 years and I expect my horses to not rear or buck and with very rare exceptions they don't. If you lived a little closer I would invite you out to ride a nice gelding I have for sale but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort on your part.


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## BerkleysTops (Feb 13, 2009)

ognend said:


> Am I crazy in expecting this?


I don't think so at all. I think you would be better off with a trainer you trust (maybe not the ones you have already worked with). I was so lucky in that the barn owner where I was taking lessons and whom I completely trust, offered to help me. The first horse I saw and totally fell in love with, was a Paso Fino. I was gaga over it, rode it & would have bought it in a second. She told me no way, that the horse was beyond my capability & that it just wasn't a good match for me. She would NEVER have let me get on a horse that she thought would buck or rear. I am far too inexperienced. Not fair to me or more importantly, the horse. That being said, you can never have a guarantee on any horse's behavior. But an experienced person can certainly help you with your choice. I was so lucky and I wish the same for you.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

ognend said:


> I actually think (with all my beginner naivette) that being bucked off or reared on should not happen, ever. If it does, there better be a grizzly bear 20 feet away from me and my horse charging at us. Am I crazy in expecting this?


Not at all...I have never been tossed (knock on wood) from any of our mares, even when the young ones were green broke and alone on the trail.

As a matter of fact, if you buy from a well established breeder/ranch, you should _expect_ that they will listen to your expectations (including price) and experience, watch you ride to gauge your skill, and _only then suggest a set of horses_ to consider. You should also expect to be able to ride the horse in the ring, on the trail, with other horses, and alone _before you buy_, since horses can react/behave differently in those different environments. The ranch that we bought our mares from typically had anything from unbroken to seasoned show horses available.


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## ognend (Sep 3, 2009)

Zab said:


> Good luck
> 
> What I wonder tho is why both your horses has bad habits..can it depend on your attitude anything you do that provoke it from them? If it is, it might not help changing horse untill you know what's causing it. Horses generally don't do things to just annoy the rider, their behaviour is always triggered by something.
> Perhaps it's just a very bad match and a different horse will work much better.. but it wouldn't hurt to analyse what might have caused the problem and why it's not solved despite all the trainers. Are they good with the trainers but get bad when you've had them a while? Because then there is something you do that the horses tries to escape from. Not trying to blame, just to help, it'd be sad to spend time, love and energy on new horses and have the same thing happen again.


That's a great question. My horse has never been bad in the arena at the trainer's place. I rode him there and he rode him there and he was great for both of us. When I brought him home I rode him for a few days around the back yard and he is great under saddle. Very soft on the bit and gives to pressure very well. I then took him out literally 10 yards away (with my wife on her horse right behind us) and asked him to go through a small puddle. That's when the trouble began with the rearing and kicking. My point is that the trainer claims that the horse is great, quiet and trail ready. I counter that with saying that if the horse is really trained to be beginner ready, violent rearing, tugging away on the lead rope and kicking at the same time should not even be an option. If he acts like this a few steps outside of where he lives, what can I expect on a completely new trail with all those scary new things and scents and sounds? 

My point is that the horse looks quiet and great and you think, wow, the best horse ever - until he blows his lid and does dangerous stuff out of nowhere. Hell, at this point I would rather have an obviously nervous horse - at least I know I am no notice . My trainer's solution was to advise me not to put him into situations where he will fail. I agree with that (even though I am a beginner) BUT that is while you are training, not after months of professional training have been done. At least that's my uneducated opinion. I mean, it's not like I am asking the horse to go under a bridge next to gunfire with a heavy truck driving buy and a dog running underneath my horse all at the same time! 

It is my (beginner) expectation that once the horse is deemed trail ready, there will be a lot of situations where he will be in a position to fail. This is where their training and attitude comes in play, no?


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

No, I agree that a horse behavng like that isn't a good beginer horse, and definetly not a good trailhorse. A good beginner horse will accept pretty much wrongs from the rider and still manage to figure out what it's supposed to do, or at least not get stressed out by not getting it. At least as long as the rider genuinly try to do what's right for both of them (and I believe horses sense very well if you care but can't, or if you just can't but don't care either way)
And a trailhorse shouldn't react to a puddle in the first place.

I just question why it's not helped with all that training  Because, if you're handeling the situation right (_not saying that you must do everything perfect as a beginner, the horse just might be too sensetive for your level too_)it wouldn't go that far. And if the horse is helped by the trainers and work ok for a while after you got it, but then starts behaving badly again, there is definetly someting you _need_ to learn for future experiences. And the trainers should be able to see what you make wrong and what annoys the horse if you ride for them. 
If the horse just won't get over the problems at all, I'd rather blame the trainers as they're hired to help the horse understand how to behave. Sending him to a trainer for starters when you know it's too much for you, is great. Especially if you take lessons from the trainer as well to make sure the horse gets the same signals  I did that with Crow, I wasn't a beginner but he was my first horse and we have had some problems.. the choice was putting down/selling or try a trainer. And it did wonders for both of us 
Before that I had the trainer at home, and things worked well as long as she was there. When she wasn't, I put my weight wrong and my green horse got nervous and on it went.. So training the horse in this case helped us both since he got more accepting - but I had to learn to keep my balance and weight right to be able to keep my overly sensetive horse in a relaxed mood.

To get back to your horse.. it sounds like what he really needs is lots of experience on the trails (not the arena since he knows that already), with a rider that knows how to get him past the scary things in a calm way and realize that they wern't that scary at all. But that is way too much to ask from a beginner, especially concidering just how bad the problem is. And if you sent him to trainers to fix that problem, they failed. (_unless they and perhaps others around them can handle the horse fine on the trail but you're the only one who can't..then, again, you need to learn _


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## ognend (Sep 3, 2009)

Zab said:


> No, I agree that a horse behavng like that isn't a good beginer horse, and definetly not a good trailhorse. A good beginner horse will accept pretty much wrongs from the rider and still manage to figure out what it's supposed to do, or at least not get stressed out by not getting it. At least as long as the rider genuinly try to do what's right for both of them (and I believe horses sense very well if you care but can't, or if you just can't but don't care either way)
> And a trailhorse shouldn't react to a puddle in the first place.
> 
> I just question why it's not helped with all that training  Because, if you're handeling the situation right (_not saying that you must do everything perfect as a beginner, the horse just might be too sensetive for your level too_)it wouldn't go that far. And if the horse is helped by the trainers and work ok for a while after you got it, but then starts behaving badly again, there is definetly someting you _need_ to learn for future experiences. And the trainers should be able to see what you make wrong and what annoys the horse if you ride for them.
> ...


Instead of writing up the whole story - read what I have written up here - it will better explain where I am coming from:

Corripio: Of horses, training and horse trainers

Cheers!


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

I'm not trying to change your mind, only to explain what I meant. 
I agree with you, mostly.


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## showclothes (Dec 23, 2011)

Hi, Has anyone ever used Jennifer Brown at Painted Star Stables in Ft White FL for trail training? I'm looking for references. Thanks.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Hi Ognend,
Check out these guys here in AR. Not too far and they have an EXCELLENT reputation.
Horses for Sale
They have a SUPER nice grey gelding named Honcho, I'd check him out!
I LOVE checking out what they have for sale, not that I'm in the market... They produce a ton of really nice "kid broke" horses. Something I'd look for if I were you! I love a challenge, but these days I look for horses that are specifically trained for children or trail horses with 1,000's of miles. I'm no longer able to cowboy or train! You went the right route rescuing and trying to rehab, hopefully you are finding your current two good homes? Good Luck!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Just btw guys, this thread is over 2 years old... 

Showclothes, you'll get more responses if you start your own thread.


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## showclothes (Dec 23, 2011)

Thanks Wallaby, I'm kinda new to forums. I realized my mistake and actually did start a new thread. Thanks.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

HAHAHAHAAAA!!!! I didn't even look!


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