# How to solve a kicking horse when picking feet...



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm just curious as to what you guys do when you grab a back foot and the horse kicks. 

I've never dealt with a horse so bad that tries to kick..most horses with this problem I can hold onto until they settle..while Jersey will keep kicking. 

*I know this was discussed on my other thread about how she may be in pain. I'm not going to try this right now, like I said I'm curious on the techniques*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

If there is such a high probability it is because of pain and it hurts to be handled; a vet is in check, possibly a farrier if something is up with her feet.

Then you can look into the training issues. You can't punish pain.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well of course if she is in pain, take away the pain, step number 1:wink:

Step number two, well I use a rope around the leg, then I can lift it and hold while standing safely up by the horses shoulder. Work on just getting off of the ground first, just a couple of inches and hold it, then gradually bring it higher and higher up.

I wondered if Ben had pain in his off hind when I first got him, but using the rope and softly softly technique we eventually got it sorted


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks GH. 

I did the rope trick last week and she was kicking away. It was the second time I tried touching her back feet....first time was when I rode her/first saw her, and went to pick her foot out and she kicked me leg. 

And the vet is getting called as soon as I get money...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Lubylol, while it's good to be prepared, make sure that once you have her health issues dealt with and she is ready for some basic training (re-training probably) that you don't go into it negatively as she will read that from you.

If you just pick up her feet quickly to clean quickly for now, it will set a good groundwork for later.


----------



## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Learned this from Parelli: your problem is actually keeping her hooves on the ground!  You need to stroke her legs, starting from the top, & work your way down so that horse is comfortable with your massaging even the hooves. Giving you a hoof is a huge trust issue for horses. Only when you've got all 4 staying on ground with horse comfy with that, go to the rope as described by Golden, & just lift it a little & place it an inch to the side, then progress to placing it at a walk, then to lifting it for a hand-hold.

Hope that helps!


----------



## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

The biggest thing with using a rope is as SOON as she stops fighting, take the rope off or drop the pressure.


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

NM that's the problem....she's fine with her front feet getting picked, but when you go to get her back feet, she kicks. And they aren't just, "shoo fly" kicks, they're like "omg I'm gonna kill you" kicks O.O
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

And Kimmy...I made the mistake to drop her because she was fighting SO much, that I could barely hold on...it was so bad! And it was so frustrating it almost made me cry :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

Step 1 be sure there is no pain. And then...

What does this mare do when you run your hand down her back leg? When does the kicking start? 
Treat her like a baby. Put your hand on her leg in front of the hock and hold. When she lifts _let go right away_ *pat pat pat* and do something else. You've got plenty of time to work with her, no rush. Teach her to accept just lifting it without kicking. Then slowly work on holding it with your hand for a few seconds. Then ten seconds. We are talking days or even a couple of weeks. Literally, if she'll pick it up and set it down nicely without kicking that is good for the day. 

One of my Thoroughbred mares did not know that she had a butt so picking up her back feet was traumatizing. She'd also had rough handling people do the 'back horse in corner and twitch nose' move one to many times so she would knock your block off for even looking at her back feet. The rope thing would have turned this mare aggressive on the handler SO I did the above. (First I made sure she realized that her butt _is_, oddly enough, actually attached to the rest of her and people _can_, shockingly, touch this whole hind end at any given moment) It took literally four months for her to accept a farrier AND to this day (1.5 years later) she prefers that her hind legs be kept very low when you trim. In her mind its that or nothing at all, take it or leave it


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

lubylol said:


> Thanks GH.
> 
> I did the rope trick last week and she was kicking away. It was the second time I tried touching her back feet....first time was when I rode her/first saw her, and went to pick her foot out and she kicked me leg.
> 
> ...


I thought she kicked your leg because you approached her while she was eating?

Sorry, not stalking you, just noticed the new thread :lol:


----------



## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

ShinaKonga said:


> I thought she kicked your leg because you approached her while she was eating?
> 
> Sorry, not stalking you, just noticed the new thread :lol:


Confused as well........:?


----------



## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

my Quarter horse will do the same thing he will lift him hoof high and then kick out and do it all over agian i pit a rope around his cannon bone (?) and lift it and let him make a fuss that way im not in the way and now he is better and not as bad. With my paint i lifted his hoof up so he cant kick. my other paint i pull his back leg out so it is like he kicked but if he pulls away i can get out of the way if he would kick. thats how i do it any ways.


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Sorry for the confusion guys. When I first went to see her, I cleaned out her feet so I could ride (tried to clean) and she kicked out with her back foot and got me on the side of the leg. 

Then when I did the rope trick she was kicking, but didn't get me. 

Then different circumstances, she kicked me when I shooed her away during feeding time. -_-
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

lubylol said:


> Sorry for the confusion guys. When I first went to see her, I cleaned out her feet so I could ride (tried to clean) and she kicked out with her back foot and got me on the side of the leg.
> 
> Then when I did the rope trick she was kicking, but didn't get me.
> 
> ...


I thought the feeding time one was the first time you had been kicked?

Anyway. I wouldn't advise anything until you get a vet out there. I am very certain she's got to be in some pain right now... Only very certain since I'm not there and don't know for sure.

Dare I say it, missing a few days of picking out her feet won't kill her. The horses I've taken care of and the one I own have all survived my neglectful grooming ways :lol:


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I would use the rope trick as well with one change. Instead of standing by the shoulder, I would stand out to the side of the hind end. When standing by the shoulder and the horse kicks backward, you can have the rope pulled from you/rope burn, or you could be pulled toward the rear end. Standing perpendicular to the rear, the horse can kick forward, back and out but you can keep the pressure on the rope without having the rope pulled from you or putting you in danger. 

As soon as the horse stops kicking, RELEASE! Timing is crucial. I do this not only to be able to handle their hooves for cleaning but also to teach them if they get their leg caught on something, it's better to just stay relaxed and stand still.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Nope that wasn't the first time I've been kicked....if I mentioned it was, shame on me :-$

And I'm looking into getting a vet as soon as possible. 

And I've never cleaned her back feet, only front feet :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

lubylol said:


> Nope that wasn't the first time I've been kicked....if I mentioned it was, shame on me :-$
> 
> And I'm looking into getting a vet as soon as possible.
> 
> ...


Probably just a misunderstanding.  Good luck on the vet.


----------



## nherridge (Oct 30, 2011)

I worked with a horse (arabian stallion) who used to lose his freaking mind if you went close to his back feet. Kicks, backing, rearing, biting, plain out vicious. It was previous bad handling. So, we did the rope trick. It takes time and patience, you have to out wait the horse, but it works. I just picked it up and let him have it back immediately. IMMEDIATELY. Then did it, over and over and over and over and over and over again. I got to hold it for longer and longer and longer and longer, and then wha-la! The farrier was trimming his rears with the lead rope slung over his back, free standing. Talk about a changed horse. I really think he though I was going to hurt him or steal his feet forever.


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Am I supposed to scold them for kicking? (I'd use my voice) Or do I let them be until they stop then I remove the pressue...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Personally I don't scold while I'm using the rope, I just keep calm and neutral, and as others have said the start point is just to have him lift the leg, or if you are in tune with him even when he thinks about lifting it, I reward with letting off the pressure. 

When he is good with that then get a little higher, the only way I reward is actions, and I don't discipline at all.


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

lubylol said:


> Am I supposed to scold them for kicking? (I'd use my voice) Or do I let them be until they stop then I remove the pressue...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My gelding knows not to kick, therefore the living tar is smacked out of him if he _ever_ attempts it towards me. I figure that if he intends on making me meet my maker, then I am going to make **** sure he comes along for it.

In your case, after pain is checked out and a little more respect is laid down in this relationship, then I'd let her kick it out (with you set away from where you can be hit with the blows) and once shes calm, promptly remove pressure. Reward good behavior. Later on, if you know that she knows better, I'd scold her. Having her know why she is being scolded is key, or all shes going to think is that you're a big meanie. :lol:


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

^good point. Yesterday I was picking out Cowboy's foot and he cocked it back with me holding on to it. I dropped it and gave him a smack. He knows never to do that!

And what someone said earlier, about running their hand down the leg just to say "hey I'm aloud to touch you here" scares me. I'm afraid she's going to kick mee! Ahhh, so much stress -_-
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

lubylol said:


> ^good point. Yesterday I was picking out Cowboy's foot and he cocked it back with me holding on to it. I dropped it and gave him a smack. He knows never to do that!
> 
> And what someone said earlier, about running their hand down the leg just to say "hey I'm aloud to touch you here" scares me. I'm afraid she's going to kick mee! Ahhh, so much stress -_-
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe you should consider stepping away from taking care of this mare. Focus on Cowboy for a while and build some confidence, possibly?


----------



## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Lubylol, generally yes you should scold for kicking, but not your mare. Just leave her be until her other issues are looked into further. As for Cowboy, I would have told him a very firm NO while continuing to hold his foot. I know sometimes it's difficult, but ideally you don't want the horse to learn that when he resists he will be allowed to drop his foot. 

As long as you are holding on to the foot, they really can't hurt you that much. I did it with a Belgian stud -- hung on for a couple of minutes probably (seemed like forever), but I wasn't going to give him his foot back until *I* was ready to. He almost fell (which is why I don't tie problem horses), but he didn't and I "won".


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Shina, Cowboy doesn't need time honestly...he's like the perfect horse haha. And he learned not to because after our ride I picked his feet out again and he didn't try to kick. I don't think he meant to kick, maybe he just had to stretch or something....IDK but now he knows not to do it when I grab his foot lol

And Nm, that's how she clipped my leg the first time! I held on (well tried to) and she got her foot loose and clipped me when she went to keep kicking. It wasn't a full force kick like when she was feeding...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## kritter keeper (Feb 26, 2009)

my paint kicks a bit on the right hind but he has chronic back issues. check her back and see if she too has any pain issues... blue gets off balance if he is not standing evenly when i lift that back hoof.


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Thanks Kritter. I'm getting the vet and farrier out soon 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Lubylol -- I hear you. It's not always very easy to hang on to that foot! I could tell you you'll get better with practice, but that's probably not something you'd like to hear or excel at!


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Northern said:


> Learned this from Parelli: your problem is actually keeping her hooves on the ground!  You need to stroke her legs, starting from the top, & work your way down so that horse is comfortable with your massaging even the hooves. Giving you a hoof is a huge trust issue for horses. Only when you've got all 4 staying on ground with horse comfy with that, go to the rope as described by Golden, & just lift it a little & place it an inch to the side, then progress to placing it at a walk, then to lifting it for a hand-hold.
> 
> Hope that helps!


I learned the same thing from a guy that spent 20 years as a farrier. Just spend two weeks brushing the legs. Brush them all the way to the ground. When you can do that then picking up the foot will probably be pretty easy.


----------



## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

if you have such a hard time reading horse body language and behavior, what exactly are you doing 1. with a rescue horse and 2. without a HANDS ON trainer??


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

I've been around horses all my life, started working for lessons about 4 years and practically lived at the barn. Last year I was introduced to Cowboy and he's my life...now I'm introduced to Jersey. 

I think I know how to read horse behavior, having been around so many horses and having to work with lots of problem horses at the barn I worked at. 

IMO it's hard to grab a back foot while keeping your eyes on their head. I'm not an acrobat....just a horse rider. 

:facepalm: as of right now, it's the dead of winter (where's the **** snow!?) And money is tight so a trainer can't be even thought about until spring. And she's in someone's backyard atm, and come spring, she's moving to a real boarding barn where a trainer does the feed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Personaly my ponies only ever threaten to kick once, they wouldnt dare do it again.

Reeco pushed his luck the day after I bought him and threatened to kick me with a back leg when I was putting boots on. He got a wollop on his **** so swift and hard he must have had a bruise for a week. Never Ever tried to kick anyone ever again.

Pride has a bad back and I do take this into account that he is in pain. Even so he wouldnt dare kick at me, he will snatch his foot back and put it down which I allow as that him saying it hurts too much now, but he would get the same reaction as Reeco did if he even thought about kicking me.


----------



## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

where this horse is (backyard or A show barn) doesn't matter. the fact that you are coming on here trying to figure out how to 1. feed a horse, 2. figure out why she has a less than stellar attitude, 3. learn how to read body language (you don't need to be looking at her face/head to read what her body is telling you on the back end) ALL leads me to believe that you are not ready in any way to be dealing with this horse nor any horse on your own. it makes no difference to me that you say you've been around horses all of your life. that only serves to tell me that you haven't been LEARNING anything in that time. 

again, sad for the horse(s).


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Well I'm sorry you feel that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

Alright. I am not going.g to judge you, I am just going to tell you a few tricks I have learned for Kickers. 

1-When you use the rope, don't stand on the same side. Use a VERY long rope and after it is around the pastern, bring the rope to the other side over her back so you are standing on the opposite side holding the rope near her shoulder. This gives you a lot of leverage and it helps a lot.

2-When you are holding the hoof and she starts kicking, hold it by the toe and shake it. A lot. Hard. She'll get the point.

3- Kick back! She's not the only one with feet. You have to get after her or it will never stop. Yelling wont do as much as a good belly-kick.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

VanillaBean said:


> 3- Kick back! She's not the only one with feet. You have to get after her or it will never stop. Yelling wont do as much as a good belly-kick.


While I'm not totally against that approach, it isn't fair if 

A) She is in pain, which is still a possibility

b) She doesn't know any better.

If a properly trained horse is being a PITA, THEN I may administer a short sharp shock, but only if you are sure it's not A or B


----------



## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

I noticed you said you are afraid to touch her legs now with your hand. I sometimes use a riding crop, duck tape a glove to the end and use it to stroke her legs until she takes it and then try your hands. I also use a rope,(scotch hobble), if I know the horse is not in pain, and then just try to handle those legs enough that it becomes second nature to her and you. 
By the way, nothing wrong with feeling fear, just so long as it doesn't get the better of you. Fear is your mind's way of keeping your body safe, nothing to be ashamed of.


----------



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

lubylol said:


> Sorry for the confusion guys. *When I first went to see her, I cleaned out her feet so I could ride* (tried to clean) and she kicked out with her back foot and got me on the side of the leg.
> 
> Then when I did the rope trick she was kicking, but didn't get me.
> 
> ...


 
So.. you are riding her then?

You've been given some very practical advice, but looking at the condition of the mare, youmay be making her very uncomfortable by picking her feet up, she may feel unbalance, or sore. 

The rope is a good way to start- but always eliminate pain first.


----------



## adiposestem (Dec 19, 2011)

Good thing I'd seen this one because this is my friends problem and when he ask me I don't have an answer. This could really helps my friend guys. Thank you.


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Duffy, I've only ridden her once, and it was the first and only time. 

I think I'm going to try the glove-on-a-stick trick to desensitize her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## blessed (May 28, 2011)

I have a gelding that kick out with his off side.he tried to kick at my farrier she just happened to have a noavel head stall with her,we put it on him she picked up his foot he kicked out she immediately took the rope and shook it back him up ten feet or so and let me tell you until this day he has never tried kicking. He has tried taking the foot away from me on a couple of occasions I pop him on his butt and he cuts his crap out asap. 

Listen these are big animals that can kill or Mame you for life so if they do anything stupid you correct it immediately or it will become worse.good luck with how ever you decide to correct this problem....Dan..........:-|


----------



## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

We had a horse with this issue at the clinic I just had. I'll type more when the other computer is working and not the crappy mac.


----------



## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

Haha. Thank you 

And for anyone that was on the last thread with Jersey. The current news is I'm not going to be adopting her, and her owner isn't selling her just yet. So I'm still able to work with her if I choose to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

