# Backing up while mounting~



## GiveMeGrace (Jan 19, 2011)

Hey guys, I'm stuck here, so I thought I'd come here for advice.

The past 2 days, my horse has started backing up when I try to mount her.
This has NEVER happened before.

Now, when I even PLACE the mounting block by her side, she backs up.
How should I respond?

Today I just pulled her forward, replaced the block by her side, and she just kept on at it.

I never got her to stand still, rather got on REALLY fast while she was backing up and turning sideways- not the best thing to do.

Anywho, I need to know how I should respond to this, right when she backs up (short term) and how to stop it (longterm).

Thanks so much.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

You know your horse, so I assume you would know if mounting were simply painful to her versus her just being sour. 

If she is being sour, it depends on how stubborn she's willing to be. You said that getting off and making her step again doesn't work. That would be plan A and usually works. Plan A didn't work with my horse either; no about of resetting her position would do me any good. 

First, make sure she knows the command "stand". When she moves, reset and say stand. Do this first on the ground, pretty much teaching her to ground tie. This may seen unnecessary, but it helps a lot. Make sure you know right were the line in the sand is. If she moves a single foot one step forwards, that's crossing the line. You have to be strict, because, more than likely, if you give her an inch she'll take a mile. 

After she gets the jist of "stand", you can proceed in two ways. One, you can stand all day, resetting her position and making her stand. If she moves a foot, sharpy yell "NO!", reset her, and make her stand right where she was. Say "stand" and pet her.

The next approach is a little "harsher". Put her on a lunge line, halter underneath her bridle. Tell her to stand and move the mounting block next to her. The second she steps away, make her think she just pushed you over the edge. Yell at her and make her circle you on the line. She wanted to move, after all! After a lap or two, try again. Eventually, she'll get that standing completely still is a heck of a lot more fun than running circles and getting yelled at. Be sure to pet and praise when she stands correctly. 


There are a lot of other ways to go about this, but that worked for me. I again encourage you to check her back and make sure she isn't sore before assuming she's sour!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

If a horse wants to move his feet when I am trying to mount, well, I make him move his feet FAST!!!! There is nothing that fixes a fidgity horse quicker than hard work... 

So don't try to pull her foward, or yank on her to make her stand still...if she wants to move, then make her move; I will lunge, do sending exercises, backing, hip yielding, etc... Make sure she is wanting to stop by the time you ask her too...ie, don't be afraid to make her sweat if necessary; standing still for you to mount is going to basically be "her" idea. You are taking the 'fun' out of backing away, by making her work super hard, and she will want to stand still for whatever you want her to do. It may take a few sessions for her to become solid, and the first session will probably take a while, since she got away with it the last time. I am not one to simply cover a habit like that, by having someone hold the horse, or dashing on as soon as his feet stop moving for a second; work through it, and make her learn that standing still is the best option she has.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Yeah, if she backs, jump off the block and back her up vigously, and best if you do it in a circle to keep her from bracind too much against you.
Until she wants to stop then you back her some more.

Bring her up to the block and if she stands while you get on, then get off and praise her, pet her, take a short break, maybe a treat (fed on the ground, or even ON the block) , Then start again with no reference to before, no expectation that it's gonna go south again.


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## GiveMeGrace (Jan 19, 2011)

Thank you for the replies guys!
So- I've gathered if she backs up, I should make her work. This was what I thought, sometimes we just need to hear it from someone else though. 

So even if the problem is backing up, when she does it I could take the reins, and back her up excessively so she gets tired of it? Or would that just reinforce the whole backwards movement?
Isn't it best to keep her moving forward simply because it's the opposite of the backwards movement that I DON'T want?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Kinda. She is wanting to make the decision to move when she knows she is supposed to stand still, so you make that choice an uncomfortable one, so she will not make that choice again. You could make it uncomfortable by driving her forward and around you, but staying with the behaviour that she THINKS is desirable but you want to show as undesireable is the way to go.


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## GiveMeGrace (Jan 19, 2011)

Alright. ^^
I will try all of this tomorrow, and post again saying how things went. 

Thank you for all of your help!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

GiveMeGrace said:


> Thank you for the replies guys!
> So- I've gathered if she backs up, I should make her work. This was what I thought, sometimes we just need to hear it from someone else though.
> 
> So even if the problem is backing up, when she does it I could take the reins, and back her up excessively so she gets tired of it? Or would that just reinforce the whole backwards movement?
> Isn't it best to keep her moving forward simply because it's the opposite of the backwards movement that I DON'T want?


Well when I am working with a horse that I know has that sort of a problem, I will put the rope halter on over the bridle, and use the lead rope to do the work, rather than bit and reins...you could use mechates though, if you have them, but I just use the halter and lead. basically be prepared to do the ground work; don't wait until she is wanting to be a brat about mounting, be ready to put her butt to work. 

Honestly, it really doesn't matter what mode of 'motion' you choose, because what is going to 'register' in her mind, is that all of a sudden, her idea has become YOUR idea; you have to be quick about the whole thing though...once she starts backing up, you have to decide what you want her to do, and commit to it...and get those feet moving very quickly; don't let her putz around...if she wants to move make her MOVE!

Horses are 'by nature' lazy critters...she will figure out quickly that backing up is not the answer, simply because it's making her have to work more. You are making the wrong thing hard for her.


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## GiveMeGrace (Jan 19, 2011)

mom2pride said:


> Well when I am working with a horse that I know has that sort of a problem, I will put the rope halter on over the bridle, and use the lead rope to do the work, rather than bit and reins...you could use mechates though, if you have them, but I just use the halter and lead. basically be prepared to do the ground work; don't wait until she is wanting to be a brat about mounting, be ready to put her butt to work.
> 
> Honestly, it really doesn't matter what mode of 'motion' you choose, because what is going to 'register' in her mind, is that all of a sudden, her idea has become YOUR idea; you have to be quick about the whole thing though...once she starts backing up, you have to decide what you want her to do, and commit to it...and get those feet moving very quickly; don't let her putz around...if she wants to move make her MOVE!
> 
> Horses are 'by nature' lazy critters...she will figure out quickly that backing up is not the answer, simply because it's making her have to work more. You are making the wrong thing hard for her.


Thank you! That was really helpful.
My trainer would probably see me with the bridle on top of the halter and lay an egg, so I'm going to stick to backing her up w/ the bridle or turning her in tight circles on the ground as opposed to lunging.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I don't put bridles on over halters...I put the halter on after I've bridled, that way the halter doesn't interfere with the bridle, if you wind up leaving the halter on...it's a pet peeve of mine seeing halters (especially flat nylon ones) on under bridles, because they can interfere with your bridle cues...


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I personally like Brighteyes response the best. 
Not trying to argue since I don't ride with a halter and a bridle, but I have put English nosebands on over my cheekpieces instead of under and they interfere with the bridle action that way. So I believe it is best to put a halter or noseband on under the bridle. People have different ways of doing things though, and it might work for the way you ride.
BUT I must stress to the OP that you need to know what type of horse you have if you want to try the "make your horse move" idea. The "horses are lazy" statement is generally true, but I would say a more accurate statement is horses try to find the path of least resistance. So if a horse is lazy, and that's a big IF, the making the horse move idea could work. I would definitely not make your horse back since that can lead to all sorts of problems. A lot of horses seem to latch on to the "backing is what they want" idea, and will begin offering this behavior whenever they are confused. Some horses prefer movement to standing still. If I were to try the movement approach I would be working my horse for at least 2 hrs. before she ever got tired. 
So another option is to simply get on and off over and over and over again. If you get on and off many times as a training exercise, your horse will soon realize you are not going for a ride, will stop anticipating movement, and will stand still when you get on. I start with step up, step down until the horse is standing still consistently, then I add the rest of the mounting process.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Also make sure you aren't gouging her with your toe when you mount, and not flopping down in the saddle, as well as you don't have reins too tight.

And even though you are using a mounting block, you may still be pulling her off balance, or taking too long to get up and over into saddle, or dragging your toe or leg across her rump.

Many times, with a horse that is doing this, it is something we as riders have caused. I don't know if that is case here of course, and it may not be, but it is worth looking at your methods of mounting.

Also make sure your blanket or pad is tented so that when you are putting weight in stirrups, it is not pulling mane and skin and making her uncomfortable too.

If those are ruled out, then the moving her, just don't overdo it, as have seen some people just keep whirling and moving horse, rather than giving it the opportunity to be mounted.

Good luck, this can be so aggravating to have one do.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

GiveMeGrace said:


> Thank you! That was really helpful.
> My trainer would probably see me with the bridle on top of the halter and lay an egg, so I'm going to stick to backing her up w/ the bridle or turning her in tight circles on the ground as opposed to lunging.


This struck me as odd. If you have a trainer, have you asked said trainer about the issue?


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## horsplay (Jan 25, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Yeah, if she backs, jump off the block and back her up vigously, and best if you do it in a circle to keep her from bracind too much against you.
> Until she wants to stop then you back her some more.


I agree with this. In my experience it is best to take the horses idea and make it uncomfortable. Make the right choice easy and the wrong choice hard. If he is backing up then go with it. Back him till he doesn't want to back any more and then go more. soon enough He'll decide all on his own that he no longer wants to back up. Also....

If you pay for a trainer why are you not asking them about his?


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

gottatrot said:


> I personally like Brighteyes response the best.
> Not trying to argue since I don't ride with a halter and a bridle, but I have put English nosebands on over my cheekpieces instead of under and they interfere with the bridle action that way. .


An english cavasson is a little different than a large nylon halter which has ample room to allow the bridle to move properly when put on over the bridle; I also use a rope halter, not a flat nylon halter to work when the horse is saddled and bridled. I don't like to ride with a halter on either, but will use it when doing ground work, and then take it off.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

My horse has started to do this too!! I use a mounting block to get up. Lola swings her back end away from it. So I have started to reach over and get on. Today she walked off before I was even on properly. It is very annoying spending 5 minutes trying to get on. It puts me in a bad mood...She used to stand very still and not move until I tell her too...I guess she is just testing me..


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Sarahandlola said:


> My horse has started to do this too!! I use a mounting block to get up. Lola swings her back end away from it. So I have started to reach over and get on. Today she walked off before I was even on properly. It is very annoying spending 5 minutes trying to get on. It puts me in a bad mood...She used to stand very still and not move until I tell her too...I guess she is just testing me..


And she will continue to test, and see how far she can get, if you don't start showing her that what she is doing (moving away), is the wrong answer. :wink:


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

So when she does I keep her going in the direction she is moving until she realizes it was not worth moving at all? I really want to fix the problem because I cannot always have someone around to hold her and even when someone does they cannot stop her swinging her butt away.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Yes, and move her pretty quickly; you can do lunging, backing, hip and shoulder yielding, etc...just keep her feet moving. When you've moved her about for a good bit, ask her to stop and stand by the block...don't get on just yet, just ask her to stop, get onto the block, step back down, and do a little more work. 
A lot of times, horses start backing and side stepping away from the block, simply because they have begun to anticipate what is happening (you mounting), so a part of what moving her feet, then stopping and just asking her to stand next to the block without getting on right away, takes the anticipation out of it. The work itself takes the "fun" out of moving away (because she has to work!), and stopping, and then stepping onto and off of the block and going back to work, takes the anticipation out.


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## GiveMeGrace (Jan 19, 2011)

I fixed it. ^^
Thank you all so much for your replies!
Sarahandlola, what worked for me is two consecutive days of working with my horse. Whenever she went to back up, I'd tap her on the chest lightly with my bat, and make her back up for around 15 seconds. I'd then replace the block by her side, and just stand there with her. (As well as standing ON the block without mounting) and rubbing on her. I got on and off until she got it.

Good luck!


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## justjump (Jan 18, 2011)

I saw a trainer once who tried to get on a horse, and it kept backing up. After about the 10th time of trying to be nice, he stood back and kicked the horse in the side. Literally, fixed the problem.

Not saying violence is the answer, or even to that extent, but try some of the suggestions above ^^ that sounds pretty good. If it doesn't, you might need to get a little rough. **I am not saying kick your horse in the side, or beat it, or anything. I don't want to get attacked by other users on my example or suggestion. 

Good luck


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Honestly...it was probably more of a 'surprise' to the horse than an actual fix...I hate when suggestions like that are just put out there; work through the problem don't skirt around it. I've seen people do what you've 'suggested' and it might work once, or twice, but eventually the horse figures out what's coming and just won't stand there at all, because he's anticipating a good kick in the guts; I've had to retrain horses to the mounting block for that very reason...it's a cover, not a fix period. It's like simply shoving a strong bit in a horse's mouth rather than teaching him to respect your hands and seat, regardless of the bit.


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## justjump (Jan 18, 2011)

mom2pride said:


> Honestly...it was probably more of a 'surprise' to the horse than an actual fix...I hate when suggestions like that are just put out there; work through the problem don't skirt around it. I've seen people do what you've 'suggested' and it might work once, or twice, but eventually the horse figures out what's coming and just won't stand there at all, because he's anticipating a good kick in the guts; I've had to retrain horses to the mounting block for that very reason...it's a cover, not a fix period. It's like simply shoving a strong bit in a horse's mouth rather than teaching him to respect your hands and seat, regardless of the bit.


Like I said, what I "suggested" is not the gospel. Sorry if I offended you somehow.


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## Ilovemyarab (Jun 1, 2010)

I agree with a lot of the posts here. At the barn where I take lessons I saw a horse sidestepping away from the block, like the guy would put the block down and the horse would step sideways just enough so he couldn't mount. The trainer watched them try to work through this for a few minutes and then stepped in. As the horse moved, the trainer would "chase" him, making him move in that tight little circle the horse liked so much 30 seconds ago. I think the trick is to make the horse realize evading the block is absolutely not OK and they will be uncomfortable if they try it. Different horses need different discipline. My arab mare tries that a few times a month, but she just needs a small, strong "hey, knock it off, NOW" , But my Shetland pony will try this stuff all the time, and I'll give him different discipline depending on if he's being a snot or just confused. I hope all that makes sense.


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## Bella Boo (Jan 30, 2011)

Start backing up with her until she stops, then try mounting again (thats the Natural Horse Man Ship way) (the quicker way)
or
Get someone to hold your horse still


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