# To Report Or Not



## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

has money changed hands?


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## Emily Sinclair (Aug 14, 2020)

tim62988 said:


> has money changed hands?


It has, I purchased her exactly two weeks ago today. They're writing up the Bill of sale.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

While it may be legally the correct way to do things many don't go by the book. If their herd is a closed herd or EIA not an issue there they (ranch) may not consider it a necessity. Most trailers aren't stopped nor are there facilities designated for you to stop crossing state lines in many areas. Just depends on where you are at. Take back roads. 



Do you need them if stopped - yes, if that is what the law says. As you have had the blood drawn then hauling her and agreeing quarantining her until you get the results if stopped could get you out of a fine. You need a bill of sale either way. That proves you own the horse. 



Don't know about the brand inspections as I've never had to deal with that. 



I can say I got tired of having blood drawn and health certs done then have an owner not showing to pick up their horse. I called the vet clinic when they showed up with a trailer and we loaded up then went to vet and had blood drawn. They were stopped crossing state lines but had the bill of sale and receipt from the vet showing the work had been done along with the horse's records from the vet showing care over the time we had the horse. Horse was quarantined on arrival at the boarding barn they made arrangements at until copies of the coggins and health cert could be faxed over. No fines. Not the right way but sometimes it just is. We aren't in an area that it is an issue, there were no current cases any where near where we were located and we have a closed herd that doesn't travel off property.




In 2019 there were 89 cases reported in the US. Idaho had 1 case. No cases in Washington. In 2018 there were none in Washington or Idaho but between 1 and 5 in Oregon. The last reported case (3) in Washington was in 2015. Prior to that the next latest case (1) was 2005.


You do what you need to do to be comfortable moving your horse. The other sales are between them and the buyer. What they do between themselves is between them.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Agree with @QtrBel.



QtrBel said:


> Most trailers aren't stopped nor are there facilities designated for you to stop crossing state lines in many areas. Just depends on where you are at.


Yea, CA is one that is a PITA about it. When I hauled to TX in Feb., no state stopped me or asked to see Pi's coggins/health cert. Coming back, only CA stopped me and quizzed me about her and her papers. :icon_rolleyes: He was mostly concern with whether she was a show horse or a trail horse. Yes ... she's BOTH. He couldn't wrap his mind around that one, LOL.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Tx stopped that owner I was referring to. Here Florida is the pain.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I would get the coggins and the brand inspection. Even if I had to pay. 

I've been stopped in MT, WY, ID, OR, CO. Daughter was stopped in WA.

There is one ranch just across the state line that I go to via dirt roads for day work. The authorities know that and consider us like hands that work on outfits that have land in more than one state.


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## Emily Sinclair (Aug 14, 2020)

Thanks everyone for your advice and comments, this whole situation has been really stressful for me so I really appreciate your guys's responses. I will not be hauling the mare over here without the proper papers for sure, I happen to know my State Police very well and they just love pulling people over LOL. They know all the back roads too. My husband got pulled over for having a ball hitch on his truck if that says anything, they told him he couldn't have a ball hitch on his truck if he wasn't hauling things haha.

Just pray the results for the test come back today so I can get her out of there or at least that they can come on Monday so I don't have to deal with this anymore and get her home. That's really all I want. Otherwise I'll move her down to a different property Monday that told me I could and wait for the results so at least I have a backup plan. Thanks everyone! I didn't think I should report them but I thought I should ask, I do not like reporting anybody about anything because I feel like such a brat but I truly didn't know if what they were doing was really bad or not. How they've been treating me has definitely been bad, everything else is whatever they can do what they want I just want to do the right thing.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Emily Sinclair said:


> Short and long of this story, I bought a horse just across state lines in Washington while I live in Idaho. I asked about a coggins test and brand inspection (I have never bought or transferred a horse across state lines) previous owners tell me I don't need it. I think hmmm odd, so I call up a veterinary office, they tell me I do in fact need it. They also tell me that it's usually the previous owner's responsibility to pay for it.
> 
> Whatever, these people apparently don't care so I'm going to pay for it because I don't need a huge fine for transporting a horse illegally. I tell previous owners I legally cannot move her unless I get the coggins test and brand inspection done. They tell me that this has never been a problem before and everyone who has bought a horse from their ranch has never done this before. I stand firm on it and say that I have to have it done. Takes vet a week to get out there, we get the coggins test done as well as a health certificate because surprise surprise, previous owners never did a brand inspection so vet explains to me without a bill of sale we can't do a brand inspection.
> 
> ...


I separated your post into readable paragraphs for you.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If you do have to move her to another property in WA state, make sure they will accept her without the Coggins. NO horse gets off the trailer at my place without the proper paperwork. That means current Coggins, Health Cert (if from another state) and an EVA statement if from a state with active cases of EVA, and I want proof of vaccination. The vaccination proof doesn't need to come from a vet but I want to see receipts for the purchase and documentation that it has been done. Without it, not coming here. 

In future, when buying a horse, make sure you get ALL the paperwork needed/wanted before you even let them see your money. If they cut up rough about any of it, walk away. There are too many nice horses and legit owners to deal with shady folks.


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## Emily Sinclair (Aug 14, 2020)

Coggins came in and we got her home tonight!! Thanks everyone so much for your thoughts, advice and encouragement!


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## Saigold (Mar 21, 2019)

She’s beautiful! QH?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Emily Sinclair said:


> Coggins came in and we got her home tonight!! Thanks everyone so much for your thoughts, advice and encouragement!


Good looking mare. Is she in foal?


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Many people sell horses without coggins. Technically coggins testing needs to be done within 30 days of transferring the horse to a new owner. The new owner needs the coggins in their name, and should not be using the previous owner's coggins. So even if i pulled a coggins 6 months ago and am selling the horse, the new owner should have one pulled anyway.


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## Emily Sinclair (Aug 14, 2020)

Saigold said:


> She’s beautiful! QH?


She certainly is! Just a little grade quarter mare, she's got an amazing temperament though.


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## Emily Sinclair (Aug 14, 2020)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Emily Sinclair said:
> 
> 
> > Coggins came in and we got her home tonight!! Thanks everyone so much for your thoughts, advice and encouragement!
> ...


She is in foal actually, just starting to show. Sire is a registered gypsy vanner!


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## Emily Sinclair (Aug 14, 2020)

4horses said:


> Many people sell horses without coggins. Technically coggins testing needs to be done within 30 days of transferring the horse to a new owner. The new owner needs the coggins in their name, and should not be using the previous owner's coggins. So even if i pulled a coggins 6 months ago and am selling the horse, the new owner should have one pulled anyway.


Good to know, glad I did it that way then


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Emily Sinclair said:


> She is in foal actually, just starting to show. Sire is a registered gypsy vanner!


Interesting!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Here's the excerpt from the OK EIA Eradication Act: 

Section 6-287. A. Any person who sells or exchanges ownership
of any equidae in this state without having the required certificate
or any person or chief official of a livestock market, public horse
auction, or other sales event who sells or offers for sale equidae
without proper certification shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and
upon conviction thereof may be punished by a fine of not less than
One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars
($500.00). Each violation shall constitute a separate offense.

B. Any person bringing equidae into this state who fails or
refuses to comply with the provisions of the Equine Infectious
Anemia Eradication Act or any regulations issued thereunder shall,
upon conviction, be guilty of a misdemeanor.

C. Any person who fails or refuses to test, brand, or
quarantine equidae as required by the Equine Infectious Anemia
Eradication Act and the regulations of the Board shall, upon
conviction, be guilty of a misdemeanor.


There's also a section that requires ALL horses to be tested yearly and that you MUST have a copy of the negative Coggins in your possession when transporting anywhere within the state. Since we have had a few positive EIA horses in the state recently, I just test mine as close to Jan 1 each year. Then I'm good no matter what. If I sell a horse, and it's more than 6 mos since the last test, I pull another one before I put the horse up for sale. If the horse is going out of state, I will get a Vet Cert for the new owner, with their info on it. If they want a new Coggins in their name, then they can have it pulled at their own expense. 

I, personally, won't turn a wheel unless I have the proper paperwork on each horse. I keep a notebook in the trailer tack room with all the current Coggins reports in it and a copy of their vaccination records are in there too. It's just a good habit to get into.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Glad you got your mare home!

FYI, Because WA is a brand state for horses, yes, technically you need a BI and of course a Coggins and Health. Typically the seller pays. 

A brand inspection is required if the state the horse is coming *from* is a brand state. For example CA is a brand state for cattle(and sheep?) but not horses. If you had bought your horse from CA then you wouldn't need a BI to cross state line.
Being as you live in Idaho, it's handy to have a BI showing a transfer of ownership because obviously we need a BI here to show ownership and to haul. A BOS works too. Again, coming from WA a BI is required by law to cross state line.

As a side note, CA is a stickler for paperwork coming in through the POE. We've them hassle us coming into CA with a trailer load of horses. We owned all the horses and were working gathering and shipping cattle from several locations but the POE was adement about physical addresses of each pasture/ranch we would be at. *eyeroll*
(Coming from NV, a brand state, of course we had to show our BI as well)


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

In the US the Coggin's laws vary and the test just has to be current. So depending on whether your state is a 6 or 12 month state it just has to be within that date. It does not have to be within 30 days of a sale. You cannot sell a horse without a current test so if you are someone that has a closed herd and does not travel so no reason to test then if you put a horse up for sale the test is supposed to take place before the sale is complete and the animal moved. And yes, many do this even though it may be a requirement to always have a current coggins on any horse you own.

Let's say you did that. Put an ad in the paper for a horse. Had the horse tested because there is no current test on it then that test is good for 6 or 12 months. If the original sale falls through or the horse is resold in that time as long as the test is current then that horse is good to go. That is why it is very important to have all markings noted, name spelled correctly to match registration, registration number, if not registered name and identifying markings correct and pictures match the horse. 

Pictures matching can be a problem if your horse changes seasonally. The only horse I had questioned was a palomino I had sold. The sootiest one - flaxen mane and tail and body the color of a Hersey's Kiss. Pics were from summer and he sold after his winter coat came in which was creamy white. But he was registered, markings matched, DNA was on file. Horse was sold across state lines.


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## CynthiaAborn (Dec 21, 2013)

It's interesting reading this thread. My mom bred and sold high dollar horses out of California for over thirty years, sending them across the country and internationally. We never did a health or coggins on sale horses, that was always the responsibility of the buyer and was done after purchase and only needed if they were shipping out of state or country. Also there is no requirement to have a coggins on your horse in the state of California, some facilities like boarding stables and race tracks might require one but it's not a state requirement that every horse have one unless it's coming into or leaving the state. We had a few that spent their entire lives in California and had never gotten a health or coggins done on them. We also typically were responsible for paying for any health and coggins papers we needed to bring in any horses we bought, the only exceptions I can think of being auction horses where they were expected to be picked up quickly and might need to cross state lines so were supposed to be ready and not need to wait for a vet. I would never have expected the seller to have a health and coggins done at their expense (maybe depending on state they'd have a coggins on hand due to what the state requires though seems like most of the ones we've bought haven't even though they've come from a number of states). 

That being said I wouldn't try moving a horse across state lines without the proper paperwork, which for us has always been just the health and coggins, to me that would be a big red flag. I've never dealt with a brand inspection so can't speak to that.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

CynthiaAborn said:


> It's interesting reading this thread. My mom bred and sold high dollar horses out of California for over thirty years, sending them across the country and internationally. We never did a health or coggins on sale horses, that was always the responsibility of the buyer and was done after purchase and only needed if they were shipping out of state or country. Also there is no requirement to have a coggins on your horse in the state of California, some facilities like boarding stables and race tracks might require one but it's not a state requirement that every horse have one unless it's coming into or leaving the state. We had a few that spent their entire lives in California and had never gotten a health or coggins done on them. We also typically were responsible for paying for any health and coggins papers we needed to bring in any horses we bought, the only exceptions I can think of being auction horses where they were expected to be picked up quickly and might need to cross state lines so were supposed to be ready and not need to wait for a vet. I would never have expected the seller to have a health and coggins done at their expense (maybe depending on state they'd have a coggins on hand due to what the state requires though seems like most of the ones we've bought haven't even though they've come from a number of states).
> 
> That being said I wouldn't try moving a horse across state lines without the proper paperwork, which for us has always been just the health and coggins, to me that would be a big red flag. I've never dealt with a brand inspection so can't speak to that.


When I lived in CA I was never asked for a current Coggins certificate anywhere, as long as we stayed in state. Same in AZ. Here in OK, I have not only been asked for one in a state park, but have been escorted back to my trailer to show them that I had one. Anytime you move a horse in this state you're expected to have and produce a current Coggins if asked. 

Heads up for anyone who is thinking of coming to OK for the Pinto World Championships/Color Congress in November, they are requiring a 6 mos Coggins and Health Cert PLUS an EVA statement from the vet (if in an area with active EVA cases). So far the show is still on and I think it will be big. Last weekend there was a Roping finals held and instead of the expected 3500 entries, they got over 6,000, so I think things are loosening up a little bit.


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