# plastic bags



## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I would certainly never do that to her ever again. The horse won't get used to something it thinks is chasing her. That's a rotten piece of advice.

But to answer your question, sure, a horse could run itself to death.

Do you know of any other ways to work with her with the plastic bag?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

It is possible she could have a heart attack or injure herself trying to get away. 

I have a 23 year old gelding who's former owner did the same thing to him about 15 years ago. To this day he still freaks about plastic bags.

Some people don't like snakes or spiders, my guy doesn't like plastic bags. I respect that. I know he may get worked up and I do my best to take care of him. He trusts me not to put him in harms way.


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## bk3331 (Mar 5, 2009)

Well, I was just happy to have done it in a round pen - she couldn't get out or hurt others.

To be honest, I thought the theory was quite sound. After all, that's how she got used to her saddle; the first time she and all my other horses were saddled (even after excellent join-up in the round pen) they tried to buck it off and ran around for a while... and then came to me looking for comfort. So if they can get used to a saddle in that way, why not a plastic bag (or anything else)?

Some of my other horse buddies thought that I just didn't give her enough time because I was too emotionally affected.


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## rosie9r (Dec 1, 2008)

Me and another girl at the stables desensitized our horses from plastic bags by tying them to the end of a crop. We put the horse in the round pen, shook the bag next to them, when they were afraid, we stopped shaking and comforted the horse. Shook, comforted. Shook, comforted. It took a little while but now neither of our horses are afraid of plastic bags AND if you shake the crop with the bag on it at them it has a calming affect. Horse psychology at its best hehe.


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

I have a mare that can be spooky at times and I wanted to see how she would react to the plastic shavings bag, however I tried a different approach. I held it up to her so that she could check it out (she's very curious by nature) and she was unsure, she snorted and sniffed. As she relaxed I gently held it near her neck for a few moments and when she relaxed with that I touched her neck with it. If she got nervous again I would bring it back to "near" her neck, wait until she relaxed and then touch again. Within 15-20 minutes I was gently rubbing her entire body with it and shaking it and flapping it (gently, not wild). I would scrunch it up while I was rubbing, I draped it over her neck and then her body, etc. etc.. She did great! I then put it on the ground for her to walk over it. She didn't get to the point of "couldn't care less" but she did do very, very well in all and I will try this again in the next few weeks.

For us patience was the key and taking baby steps so that Lily felt she could trust I was not going to harm her in any way.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

It's a matter of how traumatic it is for the horse. A lot of times people will "sack a horse out" and really that's just a rude way to get a horse to tolorate something...but I don't want a horse to tolorate something, I want him confident and completely accepting of it. 

A good way to get the horse used to the plastic bag would be to tie it to a whip (rip the bottom of the bag open) and use approach and retreat. Walk away from her and allow her to follow it. Horses gain confidence when they can follow something. If you go to touch her and she is tense and afraid do NOT stop. Horses learn by the release of pressure and if you stop when she is tense and afraid you will teach her to be tense and afraid. Only stop when she shows a sign of relaxation.


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## Equus_girl (Jan 25, 2009)

Definatly go slow with her. Keep the bag crumpled and let her sniff it. When she doesn't mind you rubbing her with it crumpled up the slowly open it. Do it in small baby steps and then it won't scare her so much. All the horses I've worked with I desensitize this way and have had amazing results. One 8 month old filly stands quietly without a halter or lead on and lets me drape HUGE sheets of plastic all over her and flap it right by her face. You jsut have to go slow and reward for the slightest improvement.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I do pretty much SpiritHorse said. My horse has been desensitized to pretty much everything by now using that method.


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## shmurmer4 (Dec 27, 2008)

Meh, I rub the young ones down with a bag etc, ie. give them a massage with it. I let them sniff of it as well and know that it will not hurt them prior. 

I mean do you just pin your horse down and put a rope on them or a halter? no way, you allow them time to adjust to the feeling and you attach good emotions with them, with the object. 

Attach the thoughts of good things with the bag so that they have good experiences with them.


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## shmurmer4 (Dec 27, 2008)

Depends On How a Horse Sees It : Horse Science News

Nifty article by Horse Science News, on this matter.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

shmurmer4 said:


> Depends On How a Horse Sees It : Horse Science News
> 
> Nifty article by Horse Science News, on this matter.


For my guy - it's not sight - it's the sound.

No matter what though - not every horse responds the same to any training method. One thing might work well for one horse but the same procedure make cause another horse to come unglued. I will also add it does not mean the horse was 'abused' because it will be nervous or upset about something. 

It's very important to take an individual approach to horses and not try to put them in a mold.


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## Equus_girl (Jan 25, 2009)

mls said:


> For my guy - it's not sight - it's the sound.
> 
> No matter what though - not every horse responds the same to any training method. One thing might work well for one horse but the same procedure make cause another horse to come unglued. I will also add it does not mean the horse was 'abused' because it will be nervous or upset about something.
> 
> It's very important to take an individual approach to horses and not try to put them in a mold.


That is so true!! I've worked with horses that are terrified of the sound of a plastic bag. I find it is more the sound than the sight. And, yes, horses are so different. What works for one sometimes won't work at all for another. It is very important to find out what works best for the particular horse you have or are working with.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

In an effort to desensitize to plastic bags and other things I used a plastic, push in the ground type fence post. like this:










And tied new things to it for the horses to investigate. I put the post in the middle of the pen and attached the "new things" to the post, the horse could then investigate it at their own pace.

I tied plastic bags that would blow in the wind, black garbage bags, sleigh bells, a piece of an old tarp, a hula hoop with the rattle beads, milk jugs, 2 ltr pop bottles, even some pop cans. Anything you want them to get familiar with that won't hurt them.

I would leave the "New item" on my "introduction stick" for a few days and let the horses get used to it. The items couldn't chase them, the horses had plenty of room to get away from it, and more than anything, it gave them something to think about. The more items I put on the post the faster they got used to them...the stick turned from the scary post to the discovery stick. I LOVE letting a horse figure out anything that they can possibly learn on their own...( I mean if they can learn to be ok with it on their own that's better IMO than forcing something on them, not all principles apply here)

Once they were OK with the object, I'd rub it on them, by the time we got to that step they didn't care much anymore.


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## shmurmer4 (Dec 27, 2008)

Maybe you're not doing it correctly.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I really like Dumas' approach. That way you are not forcing the scary object on the horse. However, that is not how I do things. At the risk of being critisized, I am one of the types of people who "sack out" a horse, but not in the traditional way. If they jump when I throw the saddle pad on their back, I take it off and throw it back up there over and over until they stand still and don't flinch. That is just how I do my training, but I have been around horses enough and trained enough of them that I understand what they can take and what they cannot. There is a very fine line between spooked and terrorized that, sadly, most people cannot distinguish. With the air of friendly debate, Spirithorse, sacking out teaches a horse more than "tolerance" of a scary object. Done properly, it is a quick and easy way to teach them that the scary object will not hurt them and they have nothing to fear from it. Teaching them confidence in themselves and in you.

As for the OP, I would also advise that you don't do that again. Even contained in a round pen, she could slip and hurt herself or charge and hurt you. Above all, I believe you must never allow the horse to run loose under saddle at any time during the training process. If they get scared or start to buck, you have absolutely no control over what they do. I would just take the bag into a pen with me and have her unsaddled with a halter and lead. Keep the bag in your hand where she can see it and just let her trot circles around you until she stops. Work your way closer to her every time she stops and let her sniff the bag if she is willing. Sometimes this will take a bit of time but just stay consistent.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

SMrobs, I completely agree with you about the tack (saddle pad). You have to be able to read a horses' tolerance level. I don't use the fence post for tack or blankets, just the fun weird stuff. 

You'll receive no criticism from me.


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