# Are spurs a good idea?



## BluMagic (Sep 23, 2007)

I finally had to get spurs. I only wear them with Boo is I need to. Get more advice but if you do get spurs get really dull ones. You can also get barrel spurs.....need pics?
Just in case...

Dull Roweled Spurs









Barrel Bumper Spurs









Hope this helps some!


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## OneStride (Jun 8, 2007)

Ah yes, spurs are wonderful - when used correctly.

If you are just beginning to show walk/trot/canter shows, I would be a little leery to have you start using spurs. Until you have a VERY well established, strong, consistant leg, I would avoid spurs for now. Lots of no-stirrup work, leg yields, rounding out the horse, will help your leg get stronger and coach the muscles into the right places. Spurs might act as a crutch for you, and inhibit your progression in terms of leg.

I could be way off on your ability though, and leg ability, so I would suggest Tom-Thumb spurs (I believe they are the same as prince of wales". Tiny tiny, just add a little bit of lift to your horses step  I love my little tom thumbs - just be careful not to jab too much. Also, if you work with a trainer, make sure to check with them first! Best of luck!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I would have to say a big NO for the spurs. Sorry, but I don't believe that spurs should be used to get a horse to go faster. Spurs are only meant for lateral movements and up-and-down movements like passage or piafe. If someone "has" to use spurs to get the horse to go faster, or to "motivate" a horse, then they have dulled the horse to their leg. That's just the truth. A brace in the body started as a brace in the mind. 

I also do not agree with riding with a constant leg. That is just micromanagement and it will dull the horse to your leg. When I ask my horse to go, I ask with my energy first, then seat, then leg, then I will create commotion above him in the form of slapping my leg, clucking to him, or swinging a small rope or string across my shoulders. If he still doesn't go then I will lightly spank him with the rope. When he goes I release EVERYTHING, but I still flow with him. It's HIS job to maintain the gait asked of him, and if he breaks gait I ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN. If I keep saying "Don't stop! Keep going!" he will not learn to maintain gait because he is never allowed to make the mistake. Now, because I have SENSITIZED my horse to my leg aids, he goes faster with ONLY my energy. I don't even use seat or leg.


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## Wild Meridian Ranch (Oct 4, 2007)

I really do not recommend spurs for impulsion. They are for asking your horse to move laterally. The problem is much deeper and is NOT a quick Fix. Your horse needs to be motivated by something that interests her not by punishment. Spurs used for speed may cause her to buck, kick up, ring her tail, shake her head, or start feeling resentment/fear towards you, her partner.
Horses like this do well with rewards at the end of a straight line. There are ways such as: point to point exercises that end in a rest, a treat, a great patch of grass, while you scratch her neck. She will get more motivated to move forward if there is a reason that interests her and you can build on that. You can do this from the ground or the saddle. The slower she moves from one point to another the longer she gets to rest there, after a few times she will hurry to that sweet spot to rest or get her treat. You are using the psychology of your horse to train her to do what you ultimately want. This can take a week or two but it does work wonders if you are PATIENT. After a bit you can only have treats occaisionally and then not at all. The end result is a horse that wants to be with you, is willing to work for you, and understands what her responsibilities are in your partnership.
Also there is always saddle fit to consider. A horse is not inclined to want to move out if the saddle is pinching and spurs will only cause more discomfort.
I hope this gives you some ideas, I wish I could tell you there was a faster way, but if you want to develop a long term relationship, using psychology is always better that using force.

Check out my website for more ideas.

Good Luck.

Barb Apple
www.BarbApple.com


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## 3days3ways (Feb 23, 2007)

knowing how to wear/ correctly use spurs is part of being a good horseman- ask any major trainer. i would say yes to the spurs, but not for this show. give both of you more time to get used to them before using them in a show


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## Wild Meridian Ranch (Oct 4, 2007)

The key is the correct use of the spurs. Using them to communicate for finesse and accuracy of movement is very different than using them to create physical discomfort.


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## ranchgal (Sep 23, 2007)

Spurs are not evil. Unlike what alot of people think.

Yes, some people use them unwisesly. Some do not understand cues, are a beginner or simply ignorant and end up pulling on the horse's mouth while simultaneously jabbing with spurs.

However, when used corectly, spurs are an excellent tool. They should only be used on insensitive horses or horses that are simply ignoring you. If you consider using your leg to bump your hrose along, or even boot heel, it may not be enough cue and the hrose grows to completely ignore you. A spur is a good way to get your horse to listen to you again. They are an excellent tool as they give a sharper cue and you don't have to use as much force as with just your heel.

My horse was lazy when I started riding him. I would use my leg. Then gentle spur pressure. Then firmer spur pressure and I would show him my rein, which he knows means I may be about to slap his rear. Now it just takes gentle leg pressure to get him to move.

People have different preferences when it comes to spurs. I'm talking Western, I don't know anything about English spurs. You can use big rowels with many points- alot of people think that these are cruel but they aren't at all. In fact, a person really jabbing a horse has more chance of puncturing the hide with a small spur than a large one. I myself use a small spur rowel, about 3/4 of an inch, I'm sure of the exact dimensions. If you are long-legged, you can use goose-neck spurs which have a shank that comes upward so you can reach the horse easier. You may want a short shank or long shank- just depends on you.  Good luck!


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## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

Spurs are not bad I wear them on every horse I ride even if its there first time with someone on there back, but spurs are not to be used to make a horse to go faster, ask ,click, smack if you use spurs to make your horse to go faster then you will just make him more dead, spurs will not fix that just ask him to go and when he does not smack. 

"I also do not agree with riding with a constant leg. That is just micromanagement and it will dull the horse to your leg. When I ask my horse to go, I ask with my energy first, then seat, then leg, then I will create commotion above him in the form of slapping my leg, clucking to him, or swinging a small rope or string across my shoulders. If he still doesn't go then I will lightly spank him with the rope. When he goes I release EVERYTHING, but I still flow with him. It's HIS job to maintain the gait asked of him, and if he breaks gait I ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN. If I keep saying "Don't stop! Keep going!" he will not learn to maintain gait because he is never allowed to make the mistake. Now, because I have SENSITIZED my horse to my leg aids, he goes faster with ONLY my energy. I don't even use seat or leg."

Horses do not have curse control you have to keep your foot on the gas, and if you lightly spank your horse every time then you will have to "lightly spank" your horse every time and then he will just become dead to that, if you smack him like you mean it then when you ask then he will go. 

"I don't even use seat or leg" that's my favorite part, your horse must be reading your mind because when you know how to use your seat and leg you can ride a horse that has never been rode and he under stands what you are asking. So more power to your energy, I wish I knew how to use my energy to get my horses to move.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

"I also do not agree with riding with a constant leg. That is just micromanagement and it will dull the horse to your leg. When I ask my horse to go, I ask with my energy first, then seat, then leg, then I will create commotion above him in the form of slapping my leg, clucking to him, or swinging a small rope or string across my shoulders. If he still doesn't go then I will lightly spank him with the rope. When he goes I release EVERYTHING, but I still flow with him. It's HIS job to maintain the gait asked of him, and if he breaks gait I ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN. If I keep saying "Don't stop! Keep going!" he will not learn to maintain gait because he is never allowed to make the mistake. Now, because I have SENSITIZED my horse to my leg aids, he goes faster with ONLY my energy. I don't even use seat or leg."

Horses do not have curse control you have to keep your foot on the gas, and if you lightly spank your horse every time then you will have to "lightly spank" your horse every time and then he will just become dead to that, if you smack him like you mean it then when you ask then he will go. 

*Why should be keep telling the horse to go? It's HIS responsibility to keep going, and it's OUR responsibility to ride fluidly, to stay out of his way and to ride with energy. By that I mean that if you want the horse to trot, you have to have a 'trot' feel in your body that the horse can pick up on. Riding is way more then just kicking or squeezing a horse to get them to go faster. When you want to make a downward transition, instead of automatically using the reins, you use your energy. Say you are trotting. You release the trotting feel and get a 'walk' feel in your body. If the horse doesn't respond, then use the reins. And when I lightly spank the horse if he doesn't respond, each time he breaks gait and I have to do the sequence again I GO A LITTLE FASTER THROUGH THE PROCESS EACH TIME. That way the horse knows I am serious, but I don't offend him. Don't knock it 'till you try it. *

"I don't even use seat or leg" that's my favorite part, your horse must be reading your mind because when you know how to use your seat and leg you can ride a horse that has never been rode and he under stands what you are asking. So more power to your energy, I wish I knew how to use my energy to get my horses to move.

*LOL again you do not understand what I'm saying. WITH MY HORSE WHO KNOWS ME I don't HAVE to use seat or leg when asking him to go faster. I just add life to my body and he can feel the change. This is how sensitive ANY horse can be. Oh, and you can learn how to use your energy.....I just don't think you would like it. :wink: *


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## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

I am going to stick with riding with my seat, that way me and my horse have good communication. :roll: 

One thing I forgot early NEVER EVER kick with spurs.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

LOL roll your eyes all you want to :roll: 

Don't tell me I don't have good communication with my horse.....you've never seen us. :wink:


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## ranchgal (Sep 23, 2007)

Ugh. People. Please don't be immature. Just because we use spurs, doesn't mean we dont have goot communication with our horses. There are different ways of riding, there is no one CORRECT way. Some people ride with hand cues, some with leg cues, and some use seat, leg and hand. There's no absolute correct way, it depends on how your hrose was trained and on you and how you handle your horse.

There is no harm with spurs. I ride with my legs and seat- but my horse is pretty lazy. He was ridden extremely hard as a 2 year old and therefor lost alot of his motivation. We're working on that- but it's easier to cue with my leg and seat, and then spurs, if he's not paying attention. 

Spurs aren't cruel. They don't make you a bad rider. Or a bad horseman. They are a tool, just like a bit. it's like the difference between a stiff bit and a broken-mouth piece. With spurs, without. Some horses need more discipline, others less. Some are more sensitive, others less.

Spurs are not bad and excellent horsemen use them all the time. So don't be sarcastic or immature or rude, please. Nobody wants to hear it.

Oh, and the lightly spank thing. He does not become immune to it. What I meant by lightly spank is that it stings, but I don't crucify him. It meant it doesn't make a huge popping noise. Lightly spank, in my mind, is a firm connection with the rein without causing absolute terrible pain.


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## ranchgal (Sep 23, 2007)

Oh, and one more thing Flying B. You can't tell me my horse will become "dead to the spurs". I have ridden like this all my life. Great horsemen use spurs instead of heels as cues. My horses are extremely sensitive. You just use your leg and they willingly go from walk to canter. Spurs just reinforce it. They are a tool, not a cheat, and they do not mean you are a bad rider and your horses are dead.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

I would say get them! Use your leg first then if he don't move spur him gently. I used spurs on a 2 year old before and he did great if you just spurred him lightly.


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## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

Ranchgal I never said spurs are bad I use spurs on every horse I ride, and I would bet I ride more horses a week then any one else here, I not saying I'm the best, but I would bet I' better than a lot of theses hobby riders, I ride for a living. When every one else goes "I lightly spank my horse when he does not go" they mean Lightly little tap tap, but if it stings then it will work, I don't mean as hard as you can I just mean let him feel it. If spurs are used wrong then they will become dead, or if you kick they can become dead you have to know when to take the spur off the horse.

Spirithorse I not going to even get in to it all I know all those's trainers you see on TV none of them are riding with your energy. I bet your useing your seat more than your thinking.

Spurs ARE NOY used to make a horse go faster, kicking does not mean go or go faster.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Okay, this discussion is hitting close to an issue that I have been dealing with lately. My stallion is very low energy and not sensative at all. I am not questioning whether or not to use spurs on him - at this point I really have to use them to let him know I am serious. 

I spend a lot of time working with him on thinking what I want, squeezing to ask for it, kissing to ask for it, and then spurring while I kiss. After I drill him this way a couple of times during a session, he takes me pretty seriously and responds from then on with a simple squeeze, seat movement, or kiss. 

My problem is that I really want to work where he is always sensative to squeeze, kiss, or seat movement, but it seems like he tests me every riding session (almost every day) to see if I really mean what I am asking. He is very slow to respond if at all, unless I escalate to the spur level. I am also sorry to say that a simple bump or press with the spur does not cut it with him (he will begin to ignore that), I have to really pop him with the spurs - although I am short legged, and seem to have minimal effect on him even when I do this. I want to work to where I only have the spurs as a rarely used back-up, but I feel like I am still relying on them way too often. 

I want to express that I am not at all inexperienced, and my stallion has plenty of hours and foundational training. He undersands what I ask of him, he is just very smart and lazy. These can be good traits, except when he uses them to test me  I feel horrible having to pop him with the spurs several times each session, and at times, he gets sour about it (swishing tail). I don't feel good about this.

I am training him specifically on reining (spins, stops, lead changes, etc.), which requires brisk, fluid responses from the horse (moving whatever part of the body designated). I should add that he is pretty good about his forward motion responses with a simple squeeze, and his backwards with seat/squeeze most days, but when I ask for specific body manuevers, he gets very lazy and moves like jello in slow motion. 

Help! I want things to change. How can I proceed differently and more effectively.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

This is so weird becuase I used to ride horses that were SOOO hard to get going. And now I have my own horse and I hardley have to put my legs on her if ever and shes only 3 and she can read my body language. I kiss once and she canters. But I know where your coming from I've been spoiled with my filly! lol My last horse that I leased was terrible at that. :?


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Flying B-- I'm not going to get into it with you either.....but let me tell you that *some* of the trainers on TV DO indeed ride with their energy......how would you know, have you ever talked to them? You just don't get it....[/quote]


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## ranchgal (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm sorry, Flying B, for jumping to conclusions. It sounded like you were critcizing my way of riding, and I should not have gotten so hot. I apologize.  

Yes, I agree. Spurs should not be used to make a horse go. I use my legs and seat to cue a horse to go forward. However, every now and then, my horse is not paying attention, which is wrong. So I do use my spurs, not as a cue, but it does kind of surprise him and wake him up. I don't use then commonly. :wink: 

Oh... Okay, haha, I see. Yeah, there isn't really a point in "tap-tap". I don't even think my hrose would notice.  I make it so that there is definite contact and it stings him a bit. But I guess I've just seen people really slap their horses hard and by "lightly" I meant using force but not like crucifying him.

But I don't think it's right to say you are a better rider than "hobby riders". I'm not the best rider, or the best horseman. There's always somebody better out there. But I'm still learning- I can ride a bucking horse, handle a nervous, spooky horse. I have ground-worked lots of yearlings, and it's not just the basics either, it's alot of work to prepare them for saddle and all. I've ridden a colt that's had two rides on him, though I haven't started my own yet. And I think that's pretty good for a 14 year old. You may do it for a living, but some people can ride 10 horses, 7 days a week, and they may ride terribly anyway. I'm not saying you do, not at all. I'm just saying it's kind of rude to naturally assume you ride better than most people on here. Even if you do- they're learning, and trying, just like you are. And maybe they don't have the oppurtunity to ride as much as you. That's all.


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## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

paintlover always use ask, click, and then smack and then stop asking and he will become softer, just work on your timing. 

Ranchgal are you 14 or your horse, if you can do all that at 14 then your on your way to becoming a good trainer. :wink:


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Thanks flying B. I do in fact use: ask (squeeze), Kiss, Spur. I rarely use a crop, but a pop with one when he is really not responding to the spurs, can be helpful some days. I really try to be aware of the order in which I am cueing him, but I think sometimes I get a little kiss happy, and make kissing noises for every little movement - dulling him to the effectiveness of the kiss. I probably just need to keep working on the timing. Maybe he will come along as he matures over the next year or so (he's five). I seem to remember my gelding with similar issues around age four/five - of course he wasn't nearly as lazy!!!

I also think I might have just very high expectations of him. Except for on his occational really lazy days, I can squeeze him from a stand still to a canter of the desired lead. The biggest laziness problem that I encounter still is actions where I am asking him to engage his hind, like spins, adding speed for the slide, roll backs, etc. Maybe I am mistaking him not fully understanding the actions, for laziness (he just started learning them in june). Don't get me wrong, I am positive he has the lazy bone - you should see when I make him lead horse on the trail - painfully slow and trying to eat anything and everything. 

Sorry to get off topic a bit, I have just never struggled quite so much to get impulsion from a horse! He is great when you just want to have an easy going ride though!  he has also recently developed the slowest, nicest WP jog - it is awesome!


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## BluMagic (Sep 23, 2007)

I get where everyone is coming from!  Blu is one of those "I'm haveing a bad day" type of horses sometimes. I tried showig him Western. He's gets WAY bored and won't pay attention. Or he just tries to race and play with the other horses. I've used spurs especially in shows and performances where speed or quick response is needed. 

I know a lot of people that don't use spurs correctly in my opinion. One of my friends made here horse's flanks bleed for running barrels and poles. 

And, like Ranchgal said, she's young and knows a lot. I think I do to. I am thirteen. I break horses and ride all kinds. I rodeo and show, too. Blu has been my only horse that I actually had to basically "retrain". 

I feel like ever since I began riding, my abilities were underestimated. I was always given the oldest, calmest horse and I wanted something not exactly better but different, you know, something that sort of challenged and fit my ability. I hated being treated like a six year old that has never ridden a horse. One of my *used to be friends* (sorry about that) has an older horse than I do and she would constantly talk about how she was a better rider and deserved a better horse. Within my first two years of "really" riding for almost a living, lol, I exceeded her riding abilities. I always seemed to try something before she did therefore I got better. Sorry if this doesn't really fit in anywhere...

Again, I use spurs but only when necsesary or during some workouts. I don't need them when jumping Boo is already excited there. But during things he doesn't take any interest in or boring things I need to wake him up....Thanks!


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## ranchgal (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks Flying B. 

Yeah, I'm 14. I mean, I missed about 3 years of riding because it wasn't fun anymore and I got discouraged. But now I'm riding alot more, about 5 times a week, and it's alot of fun. I'm still learning, and I won't brag about anything I do, because there is SO much I can't do yet. I mean, lots of people can say "I break horses and ride in shows" but it doesn't mean they do a good job of it. I'm not saying this in reference to _anybody_ here, I just hesitate to say "wow! you must be an excellent rider to do all that!". Although I really don't doubt that either of you are excellent riders/horsemen! Or... horse... people? Haha!

I don't ride in shows or rodeos because I'm not really interested in that right now. Maybe this coming year I'll start breakaway roping and some little 4-H horse shows, just for the exposure.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Flying B, I dont understand why you smack a horse to get him to move foward. Isn't that like taking 1 step foward 2 steps back? idk, i personally do not feel that smacking a horse will do anything for him. I think all he sees that is, is he was being bad and got punished, and that will in turn make him fear you. IDK, thats just my opinion tho.


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## BluMagic (Sep 23, 2007)

I agree with you, appylover! I've seen too many horses either go whacko or be terrified of people. I wouldn't do that to Boo because he was already abused....


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I agree with appylover as well. 

Going back to tapping a horse (in my previous posts) the point of that is to ANNOY the horse, not HURT the horse or cause fear. If we can annoy the horse to the point where it causes him to respond, it's much more effective then giving them a huge whack. They respect you more for not whacking them. And if the light taping does not work, OF COURSE you get a little more firm, but at no point do you haul out with a good whack with the rope. In the majority of cases, the commotion above the horse is enough to get them to move.


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## ranchgal (Sep 23, 2007)

You guys make us sound like we are torturing the horse or something. My gosh.

We don't WHACK the horse. We smack him on the butt with a rein. They get hurt alot worse out in the pasture _playing_. There is a huge difference between fear, and respect. A horse will FEAR somebody who repeatedly hits, slaps, and/or kicks a horse and the horse cannot find a way to relieve himself of the pain.

Some horses respond to lighter cues, and some only ignore being "aggravated" and take more discipline. If a horse does not listen, you build UP the steps. Cue with seat/leg. Cue with spur. Cue with rein. This keeps the horse sensitive. He'll learn, "Well, if I don't respond to the first cue, she spurs me, and if I still ignore her, she'll spank me, so I had better respond to the first cue."

First, I asked him nicely. He chose to ignore me- that's disrespect. Then I asked him firmly. More disrespect. So I TOLD him and he responded; he respected ME. Not his own wishes. 

I gave him a way OUT and it just took more cues to get him to find it. Soon, he will learn to respond when I ask nicely. That is when he becomes a willing partner. You establish fear when you demand before asking, and when you don't give the horse a way out of his discomfort.

That's just my opinion. There are more ways to get a horse to do something, but this is mine. My horses do not fear me, they willingly obey, they are respectful partners, and they often come to me to say hi when I am in the horse pen. Fearful horses will not do that.


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## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

ranchgal they missed the first 2 steps I said, ASK, CLICK, and then smack what they learn from that is it is a good idea to go when you asked. I don't show or do the rodeo thing right now ether, but a lot of what I train are for ranch horse shows. I took a 2 year old out on the trail for the first time and I had a flank cinch on and he put his head down to smell the ground and that flank cinch came up on him and he started bucking, it was sooooo much fun, but no for his first time out on the trail he did good.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I know you guys were doing that as a last resort sort of thing, but I don't understand why you do that. I admit, my mare has disrespected me and wouldn't move forward, but i never laid a hand or anything on her. All i did was take the excess rein and slap my leg with it. It still made a sound and she responded to it. But i guess if you want to slap your horse as a training cue to "do this or else" then does he really respect you, or does he respond in fear he'll get hurt even worse? I have seen people who slap or kick their horse to get a response and the next time they do it, the horse moves immediately, and if you looked at the horse's body language, it wasn't "ok mom, i get what you mean, let me do it" it was more like" OMG that really hurt, let me get away" 

But as i said in my previous post, and I'll say it again, if it works for you and your horse(s) then great! But i PERSONALLY would not suggest someone else to hit a horse to get a response out of him. That's just MY OPINION, and it can be taken positively or negatively.


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

Wow...what an inflammatory subject


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## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

appylover I just going to get real it's a horse not a kid a little smack with a split rein is not going to kill him or mess him up for life, my horse respects more than most horses respect there riders, tell me what do you do when you ride are you one that just runs around in a pen or just go on trail rides or even jump. You have Never even seen me or my horse I can do any and every thing on him, he is just a grade horse, I was offered $10,000 for him just because how broke he is, and I don't call a horse that does not buck broke. 

I have seen people who slap or kick their horse to get a response and the next time they do it, the horse moves immediately, and if you looked at the horse's body language, it wasn't "ok mom, i get what you mean, let me do it" it was more like" OMG that really hurt, let me get away" 

It's nothing like that I have seen lots of riders and horses like that, I call those cowboyed and I'm a cowboy, Clinton Anderson use a stick and said I can not hurt this horse with this stick like another horse can hurt this horse by kicking or biting, a head mare will do the same thing ask, click, and then bit or kick, I have fixed more of these "cowboyed" horses than I ever want to see in my life, from being handled rough, I may ride 50 times or more and never need to go to click (step 2) and then I might have to ride and smack 2 or 3 times on that ride. So your mistaking me with a different group of riders, the turst between me and my horse is greater than 99% of the riders out there, I run under al 4 legs, shoot a gun, and even rode him in fire. Have you ever seen Hidalgo? I smack a lot less then he does, that is my horse but my horse does not have that kind of color or that good looking.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I find this whole thing kind of funny. I know there are many horses out there that can be ridden with energy alone (I have a couple - one who I ride with my legs consiously off of him because he is so sensitive and ready to respond to the lightest contact), but there are horses out there who are also going to take additional motivation, at least until they build a work ethic or just simply understand how to respond to the lightest of cues. 

I don't think a single person in this thread has suggested anything about spurring or hitting a horse to the point that would cause fear. Crops, bats, dressage whips, and spurs are sold all over, and yes, in the wrong hands can be a very bad thing, but used correctly, have their place with some horses. 

Lets not forget that horses are individuals too. Not all will respond to energy, not all will need spurs. Yes, a horse is senstitive enough to feel a fly on it, but also has a hide and coat that can handle an occasional spank in the rear. I have often found myself smacking my own leg with the crop to see what it feels like - if it doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt my horse! The noise made is probably the most effective part. 

Of course the goal is to use these aids/cues in order starting as soft as possible, but escalating until the horse responds - eventually the use of spurs/crop/reins become unecessary because the horse learns to respond to the lightest squeeze rather than waiting to get bumped with a spur. I am currently working on geting to that point - often, my horse does respond to a squeeze, but I am glad to have my spurs as backup when he decides to pretend like I have asked nothing of him. 

I would love to see someone get on my stallion and ride him with energy alone, or make a comotion on his back. knowing my oh so laid back boy, he would say, what is that silly person doing, and go back to walking or standing without a care in the world. He takes not only very concentrated energy of the body, but also needs to know the person is serious and knows what they are doing. He needs to know that person is willing to enforce what they are asking - or he will not respect them enough to listen. I love and respect my horse; and he respects me, but does not fear me. Yes - my use of spurs does irritate him from time to time, but annoyance is not fear - and I am training with the goal of eliminating the need for spurs or other aids anyway. 

Great if your horse doesn't need to be spanked or bumbed from time to time - but they aren't all the same. Many horses can handle a lot more mentally than other horses too. Point is, know the horse, and respond accordingly.


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## ranchgal (Sep 23, 2007)

AKPaintLover- I agree with you 110%. Everything you just said, I back you up on and my horse is exactly like your horse. Well, in the respect that he needs to know he has a rider up there that knows what she is doing and can enforce everything she asks of him. 

My horse doesn't repond to me slapping my leg. He is, in fact, desensitized to such things and will not respnd at all.

I'm trying to say something, but I'll just stop now, becausse PaintLover said EVERYTHING I wanted to. :wink:


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I never said that you abuse or mistreat any of your horses. I was just saying something that I have seen, and all I was looking for in my first post here, as to why you did it. It was purely because I did not understand why you did that. Everyone has their own views on what to do with a horse that doesnt want to move forward. Thats just like any other animal you want to train. If i offended anyone I did not mean to, all i was doing was asking for a simple answer, but everyone thought I was accusing everyone they were abusing their horses and all.

Flying B- what does it matter what I do with my horse? I did not say ONE thing to you about how you ride or what you do while you ride, so why you brought that up is beyond me. Maybe when you're not so defensive about this whole thing, take a look back at the previous posts and reread them with an open mind.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Thought this might be an interesting read to whoever wants to read it.
http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/Punishment_Correction.htm


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

appylover - I was not offended by anything you or anyone else on this post has said. I think that everyone has been very respectful about their opinions on this thread, which is nice (I hate it when good discussions turn nasty). 

I have just noticed that a lot of the nastiness on previous threads was due to a lot of misunderstanding, and I was hoping to clarify what I have gathered from this discussion so far: some horses need more encouragement from others and tools like crops or spurs are effective is used correctly and harmful if used abusively. 

I just hope to not see this conversation turn nasty like some have on other threads due to simple misunderstanding with wording. When I sit back and look at an argument on some threads, I can see the misunderstanding develop, and get blown out of proportion. Easy to see as an outside party - easy to get offended if you are the one who feels like has just been insulted. 

There's my two cents - I think this has been a great discussion so far


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Yeahh i know what you mean. And a lot of times, its also good to take a step back, take a nice breath of fresh air and come back to the situation with a clear level head.


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## kategreece (Oct 16, 2007)

People have different preferences when it comes to spurs. I agree with what Spirithorse said "ask with my energy first, then seat, then leg, then I will create commotion above him in the form of slapping my leg, clucking to him, or swinging a small rope or string across my shoulders" .

If you are interested,you may check the horsematch dot come service .If you don't like it, just ignore it . There most of the people are horse lovers, they search horse friends, equestrian singles, they talk about all the topic related to horse.


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## ox-tuff_rider-xo (May 21, 2007)

well, I ended up getting the spurs. Of course, as soon as I went to ride her again, not wearing the spurs(I just brought them out incase I needed them) she was an angel. I bring them out everytime and I havnt had to use them on her yet. But I am beginning to work with a lazy fat haflinger that hasn't been bothered with for a year and I haev a feeling I might have to use them with him.
I didn't read all the posts, mostly because they are boring and people are fighting over stupid stuff and it was basically a big arguement conversation. But the ones that I read were kinda dumb. Some ppl were like " you don't need spurs to make a horse go you just use your seat and leg and voice commands" which I found quite annoying cuz thats what I do and she wasn't responding. I kiss, squeeze, and use my seat to get her to go, and now that she knows that I have them she is good, but she wasn't before. She didn't listen to anything and I talked to many people and the ppl at the tack shop and they all said thats what I need. So don't tell me im riding wrong and all that crap.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

WOW! Ox-tuff; I think that all of the respondants to your thread managed to get through a somewhat controversial discussion without using at many insults as you just used in a single post. 

I don't think anyone went after you pesonally, they just seemed to have differing opinions. 

Calling the posts of others "dumb" or "stupid" doesn't accomplsh much other than possibly turning them off from giving you potentially good advice in the future.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

PaintLover, i couldn't agree with you more. I sort of understand where ox-tuff is coming from in that she asked a question and got a lot more in return, but she should just acknowledge how other people view it. Horses are all individuals and what works for one may or may not work for another. I think next time someone posts a question, I'll keep to myself.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Hey Lovers, So glad we have some cool heads on this thread. I DID read the whole thing and started getting upset, which I hate to do. Thanks for being nice people


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I try to step back, read all of the posts, and make sense of them before responding. It is very easy to misunderstand people when communicating in this way. 

Here is a fun photo from this fall. There was just a big field of sunflowers right there on part of our trail ride. 








Left to right: Dusty (our gelding), Dreamer (our mare in foal), and Dez (the daddy).


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Kinda looks like Kansas (the Sunflower State)

My husband carries a quirt to motivate his horse. Most of the time he just has to swing it to keep her going. They are a little more severe than just a crop. Plus they are great for getting spider webs before they smack you in the face. Sometimes spurs and whips can be a great motivator for a horse without having to ever use them. I had a horse that would act up until I brought out the whip as soon as she saw it she would settle down. Without me ever having to use it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Flying B said:


> "I don't even use seat or leg" that's my favorite part, your horse must be reading your mind because when you know how to use your seat and leg you can ride a horse that has never been rode and he under stands what you are asking. So more power to your energy, I wish I knew how to use my energy to get my horses to move.


I do use only voice command to make my horse go faster. Of course it took lots of training on lunge and in saddle, not just magic.


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