# Grey or Roan?



## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

My initial knee-jerk response was "Roan. Duh," but I see what you mean, the longer I look the more I think maybe he is a grey? How old? He looks kinda young. Not too much experience with greys on my end but I thought they greyed out later? As 3+ year olds? He looks like an early 2 year old but looks are sometimes deceiving. Is that his sire in the last pic? He looks like a roan fo sho.

-- Kai


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

He actually is only 17 months old (I know, I disagree with the riding too), and believe it or not it's the same horse in all 3 pictures. I'm thinking maybe lighting and being damp from sweat make him look that much different in the last picture? I'm not really sure... I read somewhere that if their face isn't black they aren't a roan but I'm not sure how true that is.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Just guessing I'd say both, roan turning grey.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

They rode him at SEVENTEEN MONTHS?? Ergh. That's just .... ergh. I'd be alert for lameness issues as he grows older.

-- Kai


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

I know.. Unfortunately most walking horse people around here start their's at 18 months. And he got an even earlier start.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

since he does not have the tell tale roan dark mask, he most likely is a grey. Does he have a grey parent?


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

He looks like he's going grey to me. His face would be black if he was a blue roan. Either way he looks like a nice boy.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

He looks like a roan, but then again looks like he's turning into a grey...hmm. He's super cute!  Surprising that they rode him at 17 months though!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

My vote is for grey.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I would also say grey, he has tons of white hairs from nose to hoof. Roan almost always leaves the head and lower legs dark.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

There are sdo many things wrong with those pictures.... Please get an impartial PPE if the price is over 400....

Look at his papers for a grey parent. Do you know his registered name?


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I'd also vote for a very thorough PPE...

As for a horse graying out later, not always. I bought my mare as a yearling, and she was a dark, bluish gray. By 3 you almost couldn't see her patterns anymore. Now as a 6 year old, you really only see the patterns if she's wet. The progression is different depending on the horse.

My vote is also for a gray. Head is graying out, which doesn't make me think roan.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Does he have a grey parent?
He does look roan in the first pictures, and then like he might be greying. Greying itself can progress at very different rates of expression
Not only is he started young, but also demonstrates why many walking horses just know to go forward, with ahead set, but nothing else. Look at the bit this baby is started in, something that seems common in these horses!!!!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I've had two greys from birth that were that colour at around that age so I think grey
I personally wouldn't buy a horse that had been started that young especially ridden by someone of any weight with a probably heavy western saddle
The spine doesn't finish fusing until the horse is at least 5 years old - and look how far back he's sitting - all that weight on its sacro-iliac region because the horse is short backed because its still growing


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

No offense to those who answered but I don't need the lectures on the horse being ridden I've had horses for 16 years and I understand the risks and once he's in my possession he will not be ridden until he is an appropriate age and he will be trained properly. As far as color, looks like we're going with grey. I'm not sure what his parents were. Thank you


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

And no disrespect to you - but as we don't know from your first post how much experience you have or how old you are or what you intended to do with him after you bought him it would be irresponsible of us to not point out the risks of riding a horse that young and that considerable irreversible damage might already have been done 
For all we knew you could be a total newbie, a young teen with no previous experience who despite thinking that riding a horse at that age is wrong might be tempted to carry on riding him because he's broke rather than have him sit in the field and do nothing for a few years. Sadly it does happen and it happens a lot.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

@alexnicole I know the harping is sometimes unpleasant to read, but please understand we all want you to bring home a healthy baby that you will have a lifelong partnership with, not something that will break down at the age of 8. That is a gorgeous Walker though, no matter what color he is, and I hope the two of you enjoy many long years together. : )

-- Kai


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

I did state that I disagreed with his being ridden when I said his age. I was just trying to stick to the topic, but assuming I do end up with this pretty boy he will be very well taken care of. And the way I see it he deserves that whether his previous owner practiced disagreeable methods or not.. He'll be given a break and then trained properly like the rest of my babies were.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

alexnicole said:


> I did state that I disagreed with his being ridden when I said his age. I was just trying to stick to the topic, but assuming I do end up with this pretty boy he will be very well taken care of. And the way I see it he deserves that whether his previous owner practiced disagreeable methods or not.. He'll be given a break and then trained properly like the rest of my babies were.


Hope that includes a basic education, in a snaffle, when he is old enough!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Glad you are planning (hopefully :wink: ) to get him out of that situation.


I'm hesitant to say 100% either way, but my gut says he's probably gray. However, white on the face doesn't automatically exclude the possibility of roan and no gray. There is a QH stud I am very familiar with that has a tendency to throw roan babies with extensive white on their face and legs where roans are normally solid colored with no roaning.


If you get a chance to look closely at his tail, in the very center at the tip of his tail bone, if there is any white hairs, then he is definitely gray.


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

Thank you! I'll have to check him for that when I get him, I've paid part of the cost now to hold him. I'm going to get him in a month as its a good drive away and I had a friend already picking up a weanling from that area around then. I'm really hoping he's roan but either way he's got a good build and that's all I'm really shooting for. 

Also, if he is grey will his mane and tail at least stay the same or will those change as well? I don't have much experience with grey horses. Thanks again.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

:neutral:Looks like a grey, my filly was same Coloring many thought she looked roan. :blueunicorn: horse doesn't show the dark head of roan & dark points aren't prominent enough.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

The greying gene can work at different rates of speed of expression, with some horses not becoming completely white until late in life, and some very rapidly
My one horse Charlie, I bred through transported semen, not knowing her sire carried the greying gene. I raised Appaloosas
He appeared just like a black leopard, in the Appaloosa Journal.
Before Charlie was born, I began to notice a lot of his offspring, pictured in the Journal, to look like they were greying
I e-mailed the stallion owner, and asked if his stud carried the greying gene, as my mare certainly did not!
His reply, 'well,some of them are grey!' I guess in Appaloosas, the greying gene can work at a different rate, on the base coat and any pattern. That stud is probably white by now
Anyway, Charlie was born chestnut, with blanket, blaze and four white stockings
She was almost completely white as a yearling, and definitely completely white at two, so very rapid progression!


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

My Grey girl,she was obvious grey from birth & shed out grey by 4mths old she is 5 yrs now & really just a bit more grey/white than this pic which think she was 2 ??


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I think gray too, but if all four legs were black I'd think maybe brown roan. Brown roans can have lighter faces rather than the typical black.

















Better check out those hooves good too, before you buy. Sadly, irreversible damages can be done even by that young age to hooves, joints and backs, as others have said.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

I agree with grey as well, but he could be both roan and grey. Do you happen to know about the colours of his parents? He's a pretty boy. 

And I don't think anyone meant anything against you with the age comments. We know you don't own him yet. I think it was just more the shock of "oh, he's 17 months and could just be starting the greying pro- WOAH he's 17 months!" At least that's what I did lol. But I'm glad that you'll be taking him on and giving him the home he deserves. I think you should start a thread on him. I know I would be interested to read how he progresses. Good luck!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

taken from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roan_(horse)#Gray_vs._roan



Gray vs. roan[edit]

Blue roans, such as these may be confused with young gray horses or blue duns
Main article: Gray (horse)
Roans are sometimes mistaken for grays. However, grays lighten with age, while roans do not. Gray is one of the most common coat colors found in horses, and is found in almost all breeds. The defining characteristic of the gray coat is that it becomes progressively lighter over time.[10] Gray foals may be born any color, and there may be no indication of the future gray coat at birth.[11] Mature grays may retain none of their original coat color, and have a "white" coat, while the color of the skin and eyes is unchanged. The first white hairs are usually seen around the muzzle and eyes.[11] As a gray may go from entirely colored to entirely white over the course of its life, the process of "graying out" can, at times, closely resemble roan.[12] Thoroughbred and Arabian horses registered as "roan" are often gray, especially chestnuts turning gray.[11] Unlike grays, roans do not develop more white hair with age, and without white markings, roans retain colored heads.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I second the thread idea!! Can't wait to see his color change as he progresses : )

-- Kai


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

I don't know what his parents were. And I'll think about starting that thread when I go get him!


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

our roan has a lot of roaming over her face. she is 26 now and still roan.


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

KigerQueen said:


> our roan has a lot of roaming over her face. she is 26 now and still roan.


Did she always have roaning on her face? Or just when she got older?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

alexnicole said:


> Also, if he is grey will his mane and tail at least stay the same or will those change as well? I don't have much experience with grey horses. Thanks again.


As Smilie said, it depends on the horse. I've seen some that were still a beautiful dapple gray with dark mane and tail well into their late teens....and then there are ones like mine, who is only 14 and pretty much completely white and has been for several years LOL.


The only thing you really have to watch for with gray horses is melanomas. Not all grays get them and those that do, 99% of the time they are nothing more than an annoying blemish. They normally start out as small hard lumps on the skin, usually around the mouth/nose or the genital area and under the tail. Some of them grow and others don't. My gray horse has them and he is unfortunate enough to have the type that have to be surgically removed periodically. Most horses that get them will live well into old age and never have a single problem from them.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

Can't wait until you get him home! He's a handsome guy, and I love his coloring. At first I thought roan, too. But, now I am not so sure. My grey gelding (my avatar) was born a black-bay, he went thru a nice dappling stage, kept his dark legs for awhile, his mane and tail whitened up real quickly though. He was around 12 or 13 when he got white-grey.

I had a blue roan Fox Trotter who, as he got older, looked quite similar in color to your boy. Depending on the time of year, his body would be darker, or more light.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

she always had roaming on her face. oh her cheeks. i think only her forehead and front of her face was roan free. she has a wannabe blaze now from age but thats all that changed.


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm hoping he doesn't lighten up too much but I guess we'll see! And thanks for all the compliments on him. He's got a very nice build for a 17 month old walker/standardbred that's part of what got my attention with him. I already have people trying to buy him from me and I haven't even got him home yet!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

alexnicole said:


> I'm hoping he doesn't lighten up too much but I guess we'll see! And thanks for all the compliments on him. He's got a very nice build for a 17 month old walker/standardbred that's part of what got my attention with him. I already have people trying to buy him from me and I haven't even got him home yet!


If he is grey, which he appears to be, he will lighten up more and more with each passing year until he has no dark hairs left. 

When I look at a young horse trying to figure out if they are roan or grey, I not only look at the head, but also the mane, tail and lower legs. Not only does this young horse have a strong amount of white hairs all over the head to imply a grey, but one hind leg screams that he is a grey. The amount of white hairs all the way to the coronet band on a hind leg making the entire leg much lighter than all the rest (especially around the top of the hoof) is classic of the greying process. 

Do you have any pictures of him untacked? No saddle to hide any irreversible damage that may have already been inflicted on his spine? There are just too many red flags about his early training to interest me if I were looking at the horse market for something better than a broken down pasture puff. He could even have started carrying weight on his back before he was even weaned. Sadly, this happens and horses are literally destroyed by this kind of treatment but those who do this kind of early training also tend to sell the horse off before they physically/mentally breakdown. I have watched YouTube videos of 9 month old foals who had an even earlier start to their training (probably started at 6 months of age) and were already undersaddle and being worked with kids as a rider sitting in the heavy leather saddle. If a 17 month old is being ridden with an oversized severe curb bit by an adult, at what age did the horse first carry weight? It is easy to fall in love with a color and look of a young horse and think everything will just be fine if they get a couple more years to grow, but in this case, there is a big risk that irreversible physical (possibly also physiological) damage has already been done. That is why other members strongly suggested a thorough PPE with a really good vet before you set your heart on having him. Regardless of how perfect he appears as a baby (which he still is at 17 months), he may be on the edge of being a physical breakdown wreck. Since you have already made a deposit to have him held, I hope you made it clear to the sellers that you don't want another saddle put on him or another training session given to him before you get there and see him in person. 

Sorry, we all love horses and want the best but paying people good money for destroying a young horse of your dreams only keeps them continuing the cycle of destruction. Far too many breeders, trainers and sellers do more damage than good in both breeding practices and training practices and they will continue to do so for as long as someone gives them money.


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

Again... I am well aware of the risks. Thank you. He started riding him a couple weeks ago I noticed him when he was younger and pictures of him were being posted in a group I'm in and as soon as he was posted for sale I snagged him up.


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

This is him unsaddled. Most recent one he posted of him. Heck of a build for a 17 month old.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow! He is definitely a stunner, such a short strong back on him. Going to be such a good looking boy....and can't wait to see him with a softer eye when he gets to your place


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

alexnicole said:


> This is him unsaddled. Most recent one he posted of him. Heck of a build for a 17 month old.


Do you have any pictures of him from this spring or as a weanling or as a newborn? If he has more white hairs now (make sure he is dry in the pictures you compare as a wet dark grey horse will look almost black) in comparison to pictures when he was young, you can almost guarantee that he is a grey and the dark color that he is now will disappear over time.


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## alexnicole (Aug 17, 2016)

I haven't seen any pictures of him before 15 months.


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