# Possibilities when breeding a palomino to another palomino?



## Chiilaa

What breed are the mare and stallion? I would recommend testing at least one of them for frame (LWO) if either are a breed that can carry it.

Colours could be as follows:

Palomino - 50%
Cremello - 25%
Chestnut - 25%


----------



## jraeroper

They're both registered Quarter Horses


----------



## Chiilaa

Then I would definitely test at least one for frame, since it is definitely in the breed. It can hide, and no evidence of it being absent from pedigree should rule it out. If both parents are carriers, there is a 25% chance of a foal that will die.


----------



## jraeroper

Ok, thanks so much for the advice! Does anyone know in what price range a test for frame is?


----------



## Chiilaa

$25 a pop for the test


----------



## Tapperjockey

The color of the parents of the sire and dam in this case don't matter at all. If you breed a chestnut to a chestnut you always get a chestnut. You are breeding 2 chestnuts w/ 1 cream gene, so you can only get chestnut.. with the possibility of one or two cream genes on top of that. (1 will give you palomino, 2 cremello).


----------



## haviris

Unless the mare is actually a palomino dun.


----------



## Tapperjockey

haviris said:


> Unless the mare is actually a palomino dun.


that is possible, but without a picture/test/etc.. I am basing it on her being a palomino as the OP said she was.


----------



## haviris

The OP said palomino, but also said the legs are darker and she has a dorsal. For that reason knowing what color the parents are could be important (are the colors not listed on the papers?)


----------



## qtrhrsecrazy

Is your mare a Dunalino? Would love to see a picture


----------



## StraitGirl

Chiilaa said:


> Then I would definitely test at least one for frame, since it is definitely in the breed. It can hide, and no evidence of it being absent from pedigree should rule it out. If both parents are carriers, there is a 25% chance of a foal that will die.


 
LWO (Lethal White Overo) is only a threat in Paints, not Quarter Horses. If both the dam and sire are registered Quarter Horses, than LWO should not be an issue and a test should not be necessary.

As for the dun factor, that's always something to consider. If both parents are registered, you should be able to view their colour history/lines. 

Do you not have a copy of both papers to research their lines? The AQHA will have the most updated records and should at least help you with some of the information you're looking for (ie. if the dam is by one dun, then there's a chance she is a dunalino). If not, All Breed Pedigree (an online website) can help (not always accurate) if both parents have been added.

A "dorsal stripe" and "dark legs" does not always mean a dun. A true dun has a darker mask (darker than the body colour), a dominant dorsal stripe and leg barring (like zebra stripes). Does your mare have any of those markings?

If you have any pictures to post, that's always the best to help you with your question


----------



## Chiilaa

StraitGirl said:


> LWO (Lethal White Overo) is only a threat in Paints, not Quarter Horses. If both the dam and sire are registered Quarter Horses, than LWO should not be an issue and a test should not be necessary.


Frame IS in QHs, as well as Paints. It is very widely known that this is the case.


----------



## NdAppy

AQHA registered horses that are very obviously frame - 









A Special Clu - APHA/AQHA Stallion










APHA Broodmares - Shining C Grulla Horses










http://www.harrispainthorses.com/Stallions/hesasmoothmister.html




Frame is also present in some lines of JC horses...


----------



## StraitGirl

The pictures you have posted NdAppy are all APHA registered horses and are frame overos. They may be double registered APHA/AQHA but they all have at leat one Paint parent.

I know AQHA horses can carry/throw the excessive white gene but to my knowledge, none have trown a lethal white causing the death of a foal.

I will never say I'm always right and I am always happy to admit when I'm wrong because it's a new thing learned. Can you show me a picture of a true AQHA registered horse that carries the LWO gene?


----------



## NdAppy

they are AQHA horses. They may very well carry dual registration, but without passing STRICT guidelines they would not have received AQHA papers. They only have AQHA papers now due to the fact AQHA lifted their excessive white rule. The ONLY what pattern you will not find within the AQHA is tobiano. Every single one of those horses is AQHA through and through.

you probably haven't heard of OWLS foals from AQHA parents becuase of the fact the white rule has only been gone for a very short time int he scehme of things. Most OLWS foals aren't posted on the net for everybody to know about. I'm pretty darn sure that along with APHA OLWS foals that die every year, there are quite a few AQHA ones as well.

ALL stock horse types that are used for breeding should be tested for OLWS. To not do so is just asnine and irresponsible.




BTW this guy is also AQHA...








Reminic In Spots Quarter Horse Stallion


----------



## Chiilaa

Foal with Overo lethal white syndrome born to a registered quarter horse mare

I can't find any pics of QHs that have tested positive for frame. Mostly because I am distracted and not able to battle with Google to get the pictures I want :-(


----------



## StraitGirl

I see your point NdAppy. 

As I stated, I know a lot of AQHA horses carry/throw excessive white with overo type markings (white blazes, belly spots and white stockings). I am also aware a lot of these horses were not AQHA eligable because of this so I can see why there's not enough out there yet to see the true effects. Now that the AQHA has allowed a horse with excessive white to be registered, I'm sure this will become more widely seen.


Bigger picture seen, something new learned


----------



## NdAppy

The white rule was lifted in 2004. There are *a lot* of horses that were back registered to gain AQHA papers along side their APHA papers. Dual registered (AQHA/AHA) horse bred to an AQHA horse can have a dual registered foal.

The horses that I posted (very loud) were chosen as an example as they are very loud in color and hold AQHA papers. Without verification that their bloodlines (and back registering all the "crop outs") is the only way that a lot of horses gained AQHA papers.

Reminic - LP horse above - was born after the white rule was lifted. He is fully registered as an AQHA horse with "excessive white" notations on his papers. He is a fully intact stallion that is being used for breeding to both AQHA and ApHC mares in Canada. His dam,. who is IMO very visibly varnish roan, is also fully registered AQHA (obviously). I beleive that some of his siblings are also showing LP characteristics.


----------

