# Resurrecting a rare breed



## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I have been toying with the idea of breeding for a few years now, which is funny because anyone who knows me knows I am generally anti-breeding. I really feel that there are enough general purpose horses in the world today, and a good many folks out there who keep churning out foals would be better off gelding their studs and keeping their mares barren. I keep seeing people breed horses without papers, horses who have never done anything of note, horses who have crap conformation or sour attitudes or what have you. So I wanted my horse breeding, should I choose to do so, to mean something. I wanted to breed uncommon horses, that were not stock horse riding animals. This of course narrows the field considerably, as in America anyway the overwhelming majority of horses kept by the average person are stock horse riding types. 

Then I bought Thunder the Shire. I have since fallen in love with draft horses, to the point where I have been considering selling Dreams to get into drafts and out of light horses altogether. Now I'm kind of low key wishing I hadn't gelded Thunder, even though he was never meant to be a show horse but instead a working animal, and since I bought him as a weanling I had no idea what I was getting temperament and conformation wise. I'm not too sore about gelding him though, as I had to board him and with the amount of loose horses we get every month my fears of a mare getting loose and being bred through the fence, or of Thunder getting loose and breeding a mare through the fence, were well founded. But now that I'm in the Shire horse loop I tend to see them everywhere, like when you buy a car and suddenly those cars are all over the place lol. I am finding a lot of them online with good breeding and good conformation and I want them all. 

I am also finding myself quite interested in American Cream Drafts, though I've never seen one personally. I was particularly interested to learn that there are so few of them, and that they are America's only draft horse breed. I feel like it would be nice to see more of them, to show them to the people of America and bring that bit of our history to light. I want to share them with everyone else. There are so many things to consider though …. the number of American Cream Drafts in the country is alarmingly small, how do you go about keeping the genetic diversity somewhat intact with such a small pool of candidates? How many different bloodlines would a person need to have to produce decent offspring that weren't linebred, without constantly having to outsource stallions and mares?

Is there even a market for American Creams? I never see them for sale ever, though I'm not sure if that's the availability of animals or that they're just not marketable. I know draft horses in general are on the decline, and that is understandable even if it makes me a bit sad, but I would think good mannered smaller draft animals with good temperaments, who are docile enough to be used for a variety of purposes, would be snapped up eagerly by a large number of folks. 

I would enjoy hearing from those of you who breed, who have started your own horse business, those of you who are good with genetics, and anyone else who has anything to add to this open-ended discussion. I'm quite interested to know how many animals I'd need to get things going, and how I'd keep the bloodlines as varied as possible, and all that. What are some other considerations that people need to make before they start such an endeavor? Obviously getting my hands on a stallion or three and a handful of mares would be one of the first objectives, and that in and of itself might be a massive undertaking since they don't seem to be for sale very often. 

Perhaps breeding Shires would be easier to start with after all! ; )


-- Kai


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm not sure the market supports breeding draft horses. In my area, the only people I know that drive draft horses are of retirement age. I think the knowledge of how to drive/farm with drafts is slowly being lost. Draft horses eat more, cost more, and probably aren't someone's first pick for a riding animal. That said, I think it is a niche market. Your customers will be either big companies (think Budweiser Clydesdale or Heinz percheron) or those who show drafts. I'm not sure I would breed shires...I think breeding American creams would definitely be a better market.

Shires are similar to Clydesdales. Would I want to pay more or travel farther to buy a shire, if I could find a Clydesdale easier?

The problem with creams is that it is harder to be selective. If you have a limited gene pool you need as much diversity as possible...you may have to breed lesser quality animals because your choices are limited. How much line breeding is acceptable?


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Subbing not because I know anything to add, just because I am really interested in what you're doing!  For the record though, I think you should go for it!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I googled the breed which is fairly new (1944) first thing that came up was stallion for sale. 

Any of the heavy breeds are 'specialist' as they are really for driving. Look into what market there would be for them.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I've seen two cream drafts, brother and sister that had relocated to Georgia from another state. They were attractive, but overweight IMO. 

It was sort of a novelty to see them, but that is all I could say. 

If you really want to breed them, be prepared to keep most of them and hopefully give them a job to do. Pulling a carriage for weddings, wagon for kids parties, showcasing in parades, etc. 

Not sure that you would have a lot of buyers for them IMO. Seems to me that there are less and less horse people in general due mainly to cost, and the market for large animals is even smaller. 

Drafts are more expensive to house and feed, especially hay. Also trimming/shoeing is more. Bigger stalls, bigger trailers, separation from smaller horses. Harder to find saddles and bridles. More metabolic issues. 

Everything just costs more. 


After all the joint problems I have seen with my own draft cross and many others, I would never own another one. Too costly and too much heartache. 


The only market I know is large for them is for shipment overseas for human consumption. That may or may not be something you want to do.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

@AnitaAnne I figured that keeping them until they were old enough to be useful would be the way to go … breed them, raise them and have them broke to drive safely for the average Joe and market them as a good driving animal, perhaps also green broke to ride. Or keep them a bit longer and market as a finished riding and driving horse? Their breeding, due to a number of different foundation stallion lines, ranges from straight up driving horse to animals that look like they'd be quite nice to ride. So it would depend on what I bred to, but I would go for an all-rounder - something that is drafty and can pull, but not hideous to ride either. I think that would be the best way to sell. I would want all of my breeding stock to have a show record, and I would take them out as much as possible to show the public what they could do. Carriage rides, logging/plowing demonstrations, things like that. I'd have them all broke to ride as well, in keeping with the all around image. I definitely would not be breeding them for the meat market … these would be using animals not eating. 
@4horses This is where my knowledge of genetics in general is holding me back. What percentage of linebreeding is acceptable? Do they even measure it in a percentage? I was reading more about American Creams and they have a number of mares that are not registerable but are used as breeding stock only through an appendix registry. Also they must have pink skin to be registerable, so any animals that otherwise fit the breed type but are born with dark skin are not registerable. There seems to be a lot of variation in the breed, probably since it is so new, and they are still outsourcing to some other breeds like Belgians. So that makes me think that there would be a high probability, at least in the beginning until I found out which crosses produced the best foals, that I would end up with some babies that would not be registerable. I'd have to sell those as grade drafts which would suck, and try new pairings the following year, and hope that THAT would work out … it seems that even with a mare and stallion that are typey and breed true every once in a while you'll get an unregisterable foal so there's always that chance. 


-- Kai


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

You have, as I see it, three quite separate problems you would be facing. 

One, a tiny gene pool.

Two, a type of animal for which there is almost no market.

Three, a type of animal which is very expensive to keep. 

My feeling is that this would be a project for someone with extremely deep pockets. If yours are not those pockets, you are probably heading down a road with a lot of suffering at the end -- mental for you, possibly physical for the horses. 

I can tell you that rebuilding gene pools is something which requires both flexibility and science. By far the best solution is to outcross to similar animals and then select for the traits of the original type. So, you might need ten or twelve unrelated non-Cream Draft breeding animals of similar physical type to breed to your Cream Drafts, and select for the cream gene from the offspring. Three to five generations and you might have a true-breeding Cream Draft type. 

Trouble is, you'll then have a herd of thirty to fifty draft horses that nobody wants. See where I'm going with this? 

This is the kind of project that would be fun to do with chickens or rabbits. Not animals that weigh a ton apiece.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

When I first looked into what sheep I wanted to breed I looked at rare breeds. My conclusion was hat they were rare for a reason! 

Either small or not having good wool. I really studied it and as it had to pay its way I went for commercial breeds.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Haven't read replies but would like to toss Suffolks into the ring instead of American Creams.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

It is based on color - champagne. The original mare had unknown breeding and other draft breeds were bred to her offspring for the color. Those were then bred to each other to stabilize the color though you will find both hetero and homozygous animals. At the time they did not know about champagne or that it was genetically different from cream. In order to be registered they have to have the color so you would have to have at least one homozygous stallion to insure the color. If I am not mistaken you can breed to another draft breed and as long as the offspring has the color character then is registerable. Now that may have changed but a friend was interested in the same (this was late 90's early 2000) and found it just wasn't worth it to her as JEB is an issue with this breed.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

we used to have one of the larges breeders of American Cream drafts near where I live -he was from Polo IL. When he died the registry came and got his stock. There is no market for them as far as I know. Drafts as a whole are hard to market - and the smaller drafts (like the American Cream) are not used for county fair pulls or farm work.

They are very pretty but on the smaller side - I agree with the deep pockets comment. As much as I love a draft they aren't for everyone and most trail riders find them too large to ride on trails.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> When I first looked into what sheep I wanted to breed I looked at rare breeds. My conclusion was hat they were rare for a reason!
> 
> Either small or not having good wool. I really studied it and as it had to pay its way I went for commercial breeds.


Thread hijack, but some minor sheep breeds are finding a niche in the homesteader/home craft movement. Shetlands for example have wonderful hand-spinning wool in all kinds of natural colors, are very hardy and easy to keep, and small enough for children, older people, and women to handle. These are big plusses for some folks. 

When your livestock must turn some kind of profit every year you are going to be looking at a very small number of breeds in any species, as you will be competing with industrial scale international agriculture, and only those breeds developed to compete in those markets have much of a chance. 

I'm a big proponent of conserving heritage gene pools of all sorts of domestic plants and animals. I'm a member of the Livestock Conservancy, not that I've contributed much to saving heritage breeds or anything. But it is an extremely worthwhile endeavor to undertake; there is no knowing what future generations will need in terms of livestock attributes. Many breeds are perfectly adapted to a niche long abandoned by Big Ag, but Big Ag is not a sustainable way to farm. 

Still not seeing the Cream Draft idea working though. For all the reasons mentioned, plus it is a semi-modern "color breed". Something which in my un-humble opinion there is too much of anyway.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think if I was going to breed any sort of draft horse it would be the Suffolk Punch because they're a historic breed that date back to 1586 so well established genetically - they also cross really well with things like TB's to get a riding horse that's up to carrying heavier people but is refined and athletic so a good stallion can earn its keep.
A quick look at the Creams says that they're at risk of the autosomal recessive genetic disease junctional epidermolysis bullosa, combine that with the fact that not all foals born meet the breed requirements so you could end up losing a ton of money and end up with a herd that you can't sell for anything other than meat.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

The draft horse market is red hot-- but in two ways-- 
A.) the fancy hitch and halter horses are worth a LOT of money and sell for big bucks. A good hitch-quality mare or stallion can easily sell for $30k or more... sometimes much, much more. 

B.) The Asian slaughter market - sadly, this is where the majority of draft horses bred in the US end up. Buyers are at all of the draft horse sales, picking up horses, primarily weanlings and yearlings, to ship overseas for slaughter. They pay good money, too--- $2000 a horse is not unheard of, for an unhandled youngster. I have seen quite a few mentions in draft horse publications and shows reminding people to sell their young stock privately if they want to ensure they don't end up for slaughter, even if they get less than taking them to auction. Cross-bred and field- type drafts are most at risk -- anything roan, especially, as the Brabants are highly sought-after due to their rate of gain and immense body mass compared to some of the other breeds. 

That being said, the breeds that are struggling are the outlying draft breeds--- basically anything other than Percherons and Belgians. There are some Clydesdale and Shire hitches, but the extra amount of work with the feather is a big issue, and in a class with the clean-legged, high-stepping Belgians and Percherons, they usually get the gate. They just don't have the high-stepping trot so desired in the show ring. 

American Creams are a color breed, and most draft horse people despise the color, plus they have health problems and some of your foals won't be able to be registered, so that's the issue with them. If you want a basically cross-bred draft, you can find them easily in more accepted colors. They're kind of viewed as the 'red headed step child' of the draft horse world. There really isn't a market for them at all. If you want a pair for yourself, that's fine, but breeding them is akin to lighting your money on fire and throwing it away. 

Shires do have their niche markets--- I went to a driving clinic day in central Iowa last fall and there was a family there with several of them. He had a pair of 2 y.o.s that were just the nicest, calmest, easiest-going team of the day-- so much so that people who had never driven a horse before were driving them. He did say they were a labor of love-- he's had Percherons and on a whim bought this pair as weanlings from a sale. They are now getting out of Percherons and into more Shires, but they're worth less, don't show as well, are more work, and he said they seem to be less hardy health-wise. Maybe it's just his bad luck, but he said they've had three of the Shires die from various things and hadn't lost a Percheron to anything other than old age for 20 years. Dakota Thunder Shires is also based out of our area, and they have some gorgeous horses that show competitively. 

If I were to work on a breed, and I've considered it, I would do either Shires or Suffolks. I'd really lean toward the Suffolks. They are a stockier, stronger breed and they do have a niche following among people who use them for field work. Hobby farms, horse loggers, and such love them for their temperament, smaller size, fewer health issues than some other draft breeds, and thriftiness. I think they are a fabulous breed that really needs to be saved, and their downfall is that they aren't flashy. They're a plain color, they don't have the movement of the hitch breeds, and in a group of draft horses, the Suffolks kind of disappear in their quiet simpleness. With more and more people interested in hobby farms and market farms and self-sufficiency, I think the market is there for the easier breeds to work with -- Suffolks, Fjords, etc. Belgians and Percherons are great, and there are some really nice, quiet, easy-going field-bred horses there, but beginners need to really be careful not to end up with a hitch-bred horse if they want a quiet, safe, work team. Some of those are not easy to handle at all. A breed that has never been bred for the show ring would be a bonus to this market.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I can never understand why there aren't more Suffolk Punch horses around. They are classed as a rare breed now. 

As Jaydee says they are ideal for X breeding, easy temperaments, very little feather to worry about and not an enormous height. 

As for sheep, Avna, I agree there will always be a niche with small holders for the rare breeds. Some, classed as rare are good for meat and wool, Shetland wool being particularly good. (Not that there's much money in wool nowadays.) 

The Hardwick is a great breed, hardy, they live on the mountains and hills. They were not rare until the outbreak of foot and mouth back in 01 when Tony Blair and his cronies mishandled the whole affair and most were unnecessary killed.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

If you did breed American Creams, there is a genetic test for JEB. You would also want horses homozygous for champagne. I think you should color test each horse you get. I would check the chestnut gene as well. Possibly pangare as well. 

If you really wanted to breed cream horses, i would plan to just breed one foal, wait two years... Start training that foal, then breed another once that horse sells. 

As for the meat market, the best protection a horse has is good training. So i would train them to ride and drive. Be sure to avoid lameness issues.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Sorry for going off topic, but I got this horse in 1986, was told she was a Suffolk Punch. I never believed it for a minute because they are so rare. I thought she was a Belgian that didn't grow. She was 14 hands. I paid $400 for her. She is actually the spitting image of a Jutland, an even more rare breed, so I never thought she was that either. Jutlands are about 14 hands, by the way, and always blond. I have read that Suffolk Punches are 16 to 17 hands. Could I have been wrong all this time? Could she possibly have been a Suffolk Punch?


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Sorry, photo didn't post for some reason


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

It's possible, but she looks more like a Belgian/Haffie cross to me.


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## QueenofFrance08 (May 16, 2017)

I was talking with my farrier when he was out a week ago and he was telling me about a lady who owned several Clydesdales that she showed years ago that he went out to trim. Apparently none of them had been trimmed in several years since the ladies old farrier had retired and she had been unable to find anyone willing to work with drafts since. My farrier (who is relatively new to the profession) came to help her out but said he wouldn't go back unless she had a set of stocks built for them because it just wasn't worth it for that much extra work. Obviously, that may be different where you are but just a cautionary tale of while drafts are not only more expensive it may be hard if not impossible finding veterinary and hoof care for them.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ most draft horse farms have a set of stocks. They're not that expensive and well worth it. You're right-- many farriers and vets won't touch a draft horse without them. These horses are so strong that even a gentle one can easily hurt someone if they yank a hoof away or jump around during a vet exam or treatment.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I was going to suggest Suffolk's as well! They are so rare and I actually don't think I've seen one in real life. Would be super exciting!!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I think we need a forum Suffolk Punch Enthusiast's club...


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

Thought I'd add that if I ever wanted to get into horse breeding - I would target a market of horse that is a good using horse, but perhaps a little rare. For eg the Suffolks...or even the Canadian Horse. Their numbers are dwindling and people pay good money for a Canadian. I paid nearly $2k for an unstarted 2 yo from a small breeder. Maybe one day I will breed my mare - but she would need to be darn near perfect for that to happen!


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

Yes it does seem that American Creams are rare for a reason, as you folks have stated. I was hoping to look into those more since they are an American breed, etc but it really seems like the more I read about them (I was scouring the InterWebs late into last night doing more digging) the more they turn me off. I just can't see a way around the incredibly small gene pool, and the market problems. I mean, it would be a labor of love for sure, I would be doing this to resurrect this breed not to make a million dollars, but the simple fact of the matter is the business has to remain solvent. If I don't MAKE money that's fine, but I have to at least break even, and I think that would be very difficult with the American Creams.

Which doesn't really make me that sad, because I think I have a bit of a thing for Shires anyway lol. The more I think about this the more I kinda want to sell Dreams so I can buy a filly … my local breeder has two very nice black fillies still for sale this year with GREAT conformation and great bloodlines and I just drool every time she posts a picture on Facebook. I've been spending some time at her place and I just love all of them, they all have such wonderful dispositions and are so beautiful. Even her two stallions are basically just big puppies, they are so mellow and hum-drum about everything. 

I confess I know next to nothing about Suffolks except that they are perhaps the widest horses I've ever seen and are generally chestnut or sorrel …. tell me more about your loves of Suffolks! What made you first fall in love with them? : )


-- Kai


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I've only met a couple of them, but they were the sweetest, kindest horses I've ever been around. They have been bred for work ethic and soundness and temperament, not the show ring, so they tend to be very easy to handle and train, tend to eat less and stay sounder than some other draft breeds, and the people I've talked to say they have very few issues with things like foaling. 

Do you get Rural Heritage magazine? The breed seems to appear quite often in there in photos and articles-- I would start there for contacts to breeders if you want to visit with people who breed and use the Suffolks to find out more about them. 

The American Suffolk registry also has a search function for owners/breeders, but I'm not sure how complete it is. Two people come up when I searched Montana-- owners in Roberts, MT and Missoula, MT
Owners & Breeders


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Jason Rutledge and Rodney Read would be two people to talk to. There is a FB page for the Suffolk. Worth joining.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

I love Suffolks but here the UK Rare Breeds Survival Trust has many other wonderful breeds in a far worse position. 

The Cleveland Bay, Dale, Highland are in trouble while the Clydesdale, Exmoor and Eriskay are dangerously in decline. 

There are fewer breeders every year as the market for them disappears with their traditional jobs. Many see the heavier native ponies such as the Dale and Highland as not flashy enough and the Clydesdales are used for showing and novelty mounts for trail riding and very little else. 

The Galloway has already been lost. 

If I was to breed, I’d go with the intelligent little Eriskay, the Highland and Cleveland Bay.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Going back to the sheep (I breed registered Shetlands in the US) some things are rare for a reason, but the Shetlands for example are a breed with many extremely positive traits (don't think they have ANY "bad" traits LOL!) That fit a niche and just can't compete on a large scale with the commerical breeds. For example, their meat is considered a delicacy, BUT you don't typically slaughter them until yearlings as they are so small and slow growing, and even then they're still pretty small, not practical on a commerical level. (Mine don't get slaughtered!) Their wool is top quality but while the fleeces are huge (relative to body size) they are still relatively small and they have a LOT of different colors and types, great if you want ONE fleece, not great when you want 10 tons of fleece. For a private handspinner who wants a few top quality fleeces in a wide range of colors and types, great, but commercially it's a square peg in a round hole. I believe their fleeces work better with a handspinning/knitting technique too.

So a great breed that for practical reasons is just not super common. THAT's what you want if you're looking for horses (or anything else). I've always liked the Caspian ponies, they sound a lot like Arabians, pretty refined strong gentle yet smaller than Arabs. An ideal children's sport pony, they just aren't that common and a lot of people don't know about them, BUT they are fantastic little horses. And yes, I'm sure you have added issues of expense and the smaller gene pool than other more common breeds. There is rare then there is practically unheard of haha.

Not exactly a draft example, but likely what I would chose myself lol. FWIW Shetlands came to the US in 1927 with an importation of 21 rams and 42 ewes. So yes, pretty small gene pool, there were very few other importations and only recently a tiny bit of AI breeding. While not a major breed I don't think they are classified as rare or endangered anymore (at least around here haha). Plus, they are cute and friendly and much more individual/personalized than these breeds that were bred to be exactly the same. Find a horse that matches that, that simply isn't common for "x" reason and not just because people don't like them. You want a breed that has a quality/s or combination of qualities that is uncommon. American Creams as far as I know don't do anything any other draft breed can do and are only distinguishable due to the color. The farm horses I've worked with have been Belgian/QH/Welsh cob crosses types of things... great working horses, not something you're going to breed on a large scale. Farmers want a working horse. You want something that has a purpose and that people WANT for that purpose. I've sold SO many people on my sheep because they really are that great- for small private flocks.

I wouldn't do drafts unless you have a large pocket book, people buy drafts for working animals (uncommon) or because they really like drafts (uncommon), I get that that's what you want to do but I think you'll have a hard time selling. Shrug. You could always just get some Shetlands!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

^Not relevant but just to correct myself, Shetlands came to the US in 1986. Big difference lol.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I adore Cleveland Bays... always wanted one. The market is limited, though, sadly. People want draft crosses, but the CB ticks all those boxes and more, they're just rarer, hence more expensive, so their appeal is not great unless one is really into the big carriage-style horses. I do wonder why they're not more popular for dressage.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Here's the current list of "critically endangered" breeds monitored by the Livestock Conservancy:

American Cream
Banker
Canadian
Caspian
Cleveland Bay
Dales Pony
Dartmoor
Exmoor
Fell Pony
Florida Cracker
Galiceño
Hackney Horse
Marsh Tacky
Morgan - Traditional 
Newfoundland Pony
Suffolk

Interestingly, I just met two semi-neighbors who ride. One has a Dales Pony and the other has two Canadians.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

^^That’s an interesting list.

Makes me sad to see my beloved Morgan’s on there  And of course there’s all sorts of nasty infighting and finger pointing between the various breed factions about why that is. But that’s a different thread!

One of my boarder friends has a Canadian-he’s a big, powerful guy.

I was considering a Morgan gelding last fall whose owner was also selling a Cleveland Bay. He was just a 2 or 3 year old but a cute, well put together horse. Actually had a bit of Morgany look to him.

I’m no help on OPs original question but have been enjoying the discussion!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

The old-style Morgans are just lovely.... I hope they don't disappear.... :-(


I'm surprised the Fell and other UK-native ponies are not more popular here... most likely because so many families put their little kids on a full-sized horse instead. There's nothing better than a good pony, but it seems families with kids eschew them for the most part, outside the English disciplines, especially.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I think there is a healthy interest in the old-style Morgans, in the Northeast anyway. I am on the Lippitt Club facebook group and there's a goodly number of foals this year. It is definitely a rare breed, but it has a couple things in its favor. One, in living memory it was not so rare, and many people have good memories of these horses (like me!). Whenever I see comments about Morgans online, there's about a 75% chance it will be along the lines of "I like the old style better." Second, it does fit a niche -- a short sensible classy riding horse. 

And then, Western Dressage in its various forms seems to be taking off, and there's no better breed for it. 

I think they have a future. 

I think the Caspian is another unique breed which will find a place.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I agree that at least in this area Morgans are very popular (especially the old style ones!). Also a bit surprised at Canadians, no not everyone has one but I've met plenty in the driving circles especially.

Some breeds are rare but popular in the areas they were originally from, so I also take "critically endangered" with a grain of salt. Especially considering all the breeds not on that list.

Only 2 drafts on that list... OP you could always go for one of those pony breeds, they are pretty drafty looking without the downsides of an actual 18hh horse, and likely more sellable..

A friend of mine has a Gotland. There are plenty of rare breeds not listed.

I was looking at the list actually and a little further up are some more drafts including Irish Draught's. Now, while you don't want to be crossbreeding as that's likely why they are in decline, you could definitely produce some crossbreds or sell broodmares to sport horse barns etc. A much larger market for something if you were willing to cross for a sport horse type. Not all draft breeds cross that well, but just a thought.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I do like Morgans. I learned to ride on Morgans, when I was 6 my parents started me at lessons with the Vegas Valley Morgans. They were quite nice little horses. If I do any breeding though, I think I want drafts. I just like the look and temperament of drafts so much more than light horses. I definitely wouldn't do ponies. I'm too fat to ride a pony, so I'd have to have someone else break them, which I don't want. Or break them to drive only, which might be worthwhile but at least around here there's no market for driving ponies. 


-- Kai


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I haven't read all the posts, but I will say that there IS a niche market for a white/cream light draft in the carriage business. For weddings, especially with Cinderella carriages, white horses are preferred. For funerals, it's actually surprising how many request the hearse be pulled by whites vs blacks - especially if the deceased was young. In Baraat (Hindu) weddings, a white horse is a must. Quincenearas also like the white horses.

One of the reasons you rarely find these light drafts for sale is because the people who do buy them very seldom sell them. Good, calm (street/parade calm) carriage horses are worth their weight in gold within the business. Carriage business work is actually very light work and some horses are worked well into their late 20s without ill effect. Grey percherons are the most commonly used, but if you buy young, you have to wait and hope the grey goes white instead of flea-bitten, or the mane stays dark, or the legs. Percherons are fairly common, though, so finding a mature one that has greyed out to "white" can always be found.

I also know that a lot of people in the carriage business would find it economically smart to switch to a lighter draft breed if it could be proven to be as healthy and durable a breed as the perch.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

No personal experience, but judging from this documentary, there is a renaissance in the usage of draft horses in Europe. Since rare breeds have become that way due to market demands (as opposed to endangered species in the wild), I'd probably heed the writing on the wall.

Martin Clunes: Heavy Horsepower


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I've ridden a Suffolk, and although my friend has hers as a riding horse, I'd say they are not great riding horses. Unless you're able to easily do the splits and only want to walk or jog (aka bounce). Very sweet horse. But he could hear if you turned off the electric fence and the second you turned it off he'd be heading over to plow right through.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I have to ask the OP, why exactly do you like drafts? I mean, if you are not into using them for what they were developed -- drayage, carriage work, forestry, farming, etc. I can see using draft crosses for heavy riding horses, but that isn't seemingly what you want to do. Just having a huge heavy cold-blooded breed because you like their temperament seems so incredibly impractical -- that cold-blooded temperament is available in every size of horse.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Tom, my all time favourite horse, was out of an Irish Draught mare by a Cleveland Bay. 

CBS were bred as carriage horses originally, they do make great riding horses and are usually good jumpers but most do have a nappy streak to them.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'll say again, get a cob. Good weight carries and actually meant for riding while still having the draft type. You don't have to get an actual pony. Heck my Icelandic is 12.3 and my mother + tack is about 200 lbs, no problem for her (not that she's ridden hard by my mother), she's extra small for the breed and there are plenty of even "cobbier" breeds. The ponies listed really aren't pony type at all, at least not what you're thinking. Or get a Haflinger, not on the list but they aren't super common either, but won't have the challenges of some of these REALLY rare breeds and you can sell to the general population both as riding and driving horses.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

SilverMaple said:


> I adore Cleveland Bays... always wanted one. The market is limited, though, sadly. People want draft crosses, but the CB ticks all those boxes and more, they're just rarer, hence more expensive, so their appeal is not great unless one is really into the big carriage-style horses. I do wonder why they're not more popular for dressage.



I love tkem too. It was a very distant relative of mine who had CBs for driving but they could turn their hoof to anything. I think he often had trouble using them himself as his family always had them away for dressage, jumping and, one of the mares, for side-saddle.

It’s a shame that they’re so rare, as they’re amazing horses that, like many, seem to have been labelled as only capable of doing one thing and are dying out with their job.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It is a shame that the Cleveland Bays are disappearing but unlike the Irish Draught they seem to have been totally pushed out of the competition world be the WB's as a useful breed to cross with a TB
I've only had first hand experience with two crosses and although both were talented they also had 'quirks' that made them difficult to ride by anyone who wasn't confident and experienced. 


Of the smaller (15 hands and under) draft breeds I think the Highland would be my choice, its unfortunate that they've been pushed out in favour of the Gypsy cobs because they're more true to type. As a smaller ride and drive pony they're a perfect choice and they also cross well with light weights if anyone has a stallion that needs to earn its keep producing competition horses and ponies.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I think the numbers on the 'endangered' list are a little skewed as they are probably basing them on the number of horses which are registered. 

I own a Canadian mare, and no, they aren't super common and you do not see them in everyone's fields. But I do not believe they are as endangered as they make them out to be. I just don't think everyone registers their horse. 

I think their concern also comes from the number of pure-bred/registered mares that will produce offspring. I am not set up for horse breeding, but am seriously considering 'leasing' my mare to produce a foal. But lots of things to consider - her conformation seems correct, but first need her trained and going well before that is even an option. I wouldn't even want to keep the baby as I have zero interest in that - but more to further the breed. 

As a side note, I really like those Highland ponies!!!


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

My first love was a Dales pony; they are like mini Friesians


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

If i had unlimited money, i would breed Boulonnais horses. I've never actually seen one, but they sure look magnificent in pictures. I like the look of Black Forest horses too.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

@Avna I want to breed draft horses for work. I was reading last night about several logging companies in Montana who are switching to horsepower to harvest old growth timber because they can go in and cut down the ONE tree that they need vs. clear cutting a gigantic path to get to that one tree. For the ecologically sound loggers horses are becoming more popular. There is a lot of agricultural interest around here so a well trained work horse would also be sought after. And there's always the ubiquitous carriage rides, etc. I'm not sure where you got that I wasn't into using them, I have said all along that I was thinking of breeding for working animals not show. Even Thunder is a working and pleasure horse, not a show horse, although I might take him to a few local shows just for fun. Sometimes horses with a show record sell better than those without, so I would consider possibly doing a little bit of showing before selling the horses I bred, but that wouldn't be their main purpose.


-- Kai


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Jason logs with his Suffolks and has a foundation as well as breeds and trains. He also does clinics to teach people how to log. Rodney breeds as well as works his. There would be a good in for sales and knowledgeable people to help you out. They are both well versed in the bloodlines and can make sure you get the right start.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I certainly have seen a bunch of videos of Suffolks logging. They seem to be a popular horse for that discipline. I imagine the lack of feather makes them more desirable for things like ploughing as well. I might contact those two and see if I can go take a tour or something, and pick their brains like a zombie. Firsthand knowledge is always the best kind. : ) 


-- Kai


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

They are both regulars on the Suffolk FB book page. I can pm you that link if you'd like. It has been well over 20 years since I have seen Jason in person. Rodney and I correspond through the FB page. He is always (both are) welcome to visitors and enjoys sharing with fellow enthusiasts. They are all about promoting and using their horses successfully as well as placing good horses with good people and making sure you have the resources available if you need them. Rodney is in Tx and Jason is in Va.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I think your intentions are good, and anyone willing to breed a quality foal especially of a breed that is not common or going extinct has my full admiration. I have been working with Canadian Horses for years and have slowly been watching their demise as the years have gone by. Unfortunately there is more to it than just breeding. If you don't have the education and PR to go with it, breeding isn't enough to sustain things.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

@ Kaifyre


I came across this article today that highlights some of the different aspects of different breeds, from a standpoint of someone who has chosen them for work. 



https://www.ruralheritage.com/new_rh_website/resources/market_gardening/work_horses_2.shtml


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

@my2geldings Education is no biggie for me - I am constantly striving to learn more, to read more, to watch more videos, talk to more people, ask more questions. My thirst for knowledge is prodigious and I have absolutely no fear that I will be able to learn whatever I need. As far as PR goes I would keep us in the public eye as much as possible. I thought tours of my place, where I can show the public logging, plowing, haying demonstrations would be beneficial, perhaps speak to local 4-H and college ag programs to encourage more participation. I would bring my teams out to pull carriages, maybe wagon rides, take them to parades, stuff like that. I would do everything I could to make my horses good ambassadors of their breed, and to get the knowledge out about draft horse use. 
@SilverMaple Oooh that's a great article! I liked the firsthand experience from people who use the individual breeds, I guess they couldn't find anyone who uses Clydes for work? I like that saying - "If you want some fire, get a Shire" lol although Thunder has proven to be, well …. less than fiery. Heh! I would not have thought that draft donkey were a thing … they just don't seem to have the ability to power through the ground like a draft horse, although for a small backyard operation I imagine they'd be more than suitable. I enjoyed reading about the Fjords, but I just don't see how I'd be able to promote two breeds successfully without sacrificing genetics and if I can only choose one, a draft horse is definitely going to be my go-to. 


-- Kai


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

They did have Clydes in the article. They were right under the Shires. Jason had a good entry for the Suffolk. I think the Reads have had them as long or longer but both are in it for the long haul.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

Oh whoops must have missed that part!! So here's a question for you breeders out there … if I were to start breeding any of the breeds on my list of faves, how many different bloodlines would I need to ensure good genetic viability? I like the idea of having two stallions of differing bloodlines so that I would have multiple crosses to consider for each mare, but I admit a large portion of that comes from not really wanting to pay AI fees for my mares … and also, being able to ship semen from multiple stallions does have its perks. I would want my studs well trained enough to work alongside mares and other studs in harness, but I realize that is a goal that may or may not ever be possible depending on the individual's temperament so would therefore have to ensure that I could ensure constant separation if necessary. In my (albeit limited) experience with draft studs they seem to be much more laid back than a regular light horse stallion but they ARE studs so I would have to take great care at all times. I have only ever kept 1 stallion at a time before so don't have experience with multiples. Is it even worth having multiple stallions or should I pick a bloodline and have only 1?


-- Kai


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Foxhunter said:


> I googled the breed which is fairly new (1944) first thing that came up was stallion for sale.


Wow, Shires are that recent? I assumed they were an old Pommy breed.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Not e American Cream Draught. 

Come back 1944 was the time when Sires, as a breed started to die out as they were being replaced by tractors. They went down in numbers dramatically and few breeding mares remained. 

It wasn't until the 60s - 70s that the Shire breed began to be revived. There was a lot of breeding Shire mares to Clydesdales, first to bring in different blood lines and secondly to try and get slightly less feather. Shires had very thick feathering which was difficult to deal with.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Oh duh, of course...


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

If you want to breed your mares in-house rather than AI, I would consider keeping a stallion as a herd sire for a couple of years, then selling and purchasing another, or swapping with another breeder. Farms that do not AI or ship mares tend to keep a stallion for a few years, then move him on-- enabling his fillies to then be bred to the new stallion.

Your easiest way to get started with this may be to buy a couple of mares already safely in foal to quality stallions and hope you get a stallion prospect. You may still have to AI for a couple of years until he comes of age and shows he's worthy of reproducing, but you could then use him at stud for a few years, then sell him as a proven producer and purchase another stallion--- or simply buy another couple of in-foal mares and hope to repeat the process. Others who have a really nice stallion of good temperament that they want to keep and who 'stamps' his foals will purchase broodmares and then resell them after a few years to keep bloodlines fresher, keeping the same stallion and changing up the mares. If your main goal is babies for sale, this works well. If your main goal is babies to keep and grow your breeding herd, it's easier to replace the stallion through purchasing or leasing or do AI for a few years. While your stallion is standing, keep an eye out for weanling/yearling stallion prospects that may work for you and have time to grow up before you sell your current herd sire. Remember that the quality of the broodmares is key in breeding successfully. It's easier to find a good stallion prospect than a good mare. Too many people get hung up on a stallion and acquire a bunch of mediocre mares to breed to him.... don't do that. Get good mares and then find a suitable stallion to match them, whether he's on site or across the world. You'll come out WAY ahead. 

Some draft stallions are very nice to handle. Others, not so much. Moreso than light horses, though, many people will not breed to a stallion who is hard to handle, particularly when looking for 'using horses.' If purchasing a stallion, make sure you see how he is to breed-- due to their size, some are downright dangerous even if sweet the rest of the time. Some are handled very roughly to keep them under control, so if that bothers you, look elsewhere. Many people will not hand-breed a draft horse, choosing to use AI even on the same farm. If a stallion is never bred to a mare but only on the dummy, he is often easier to work around mares. One acquaintance of our has a Percheron stallion and he is quite popular when breeding for halter/hitch horses. He's pretty good to handle, but has also never been bred to an actual mare. When someone brings in a mare, the stallion is collected on the dummy, and goes back to his stall in the show barn. The mare is then AI'd on site. Other farms prefer to pasture-breed so no human is actually endangered should things get western during a mating. The farms that do this tend to have the more popular breeds, though, where stallions and mares are not overly rare. For a rare breed, reducing the chances of injury to mare and stallion makes AI well worth it in most cases. 

When starting out, your best bet may be to buy in-foal mares and breed your mares to outside stallions for a few years until you really know what you're looking for and what you want in your stallion. No sense in purchasing and paying for the upkeep of a stallion to find out he's really not what you wanted in terms of bloodlines, temperament, etc. after all. Get a variety first, and see what you like. If you consistently like the offspring of one particular stallion or line, then start looking for a stud colt from that stallion, or seeing if the breeder may be interested in selling or leasing you the stallion for a few years. If your mares show a consistency in need for a certain type of stallion, you will then know what you're looking for, too. Also consider how many mares you plan to have. Keeping a stallion can be a lot of hassle and expense, not to mention liability if he were to get out and head for the neighbors-- there isn't a fence out there that will hold a draft stud going after a mare if he really wants to get to her. Unless you plan on having a LOT of mares, AI may just make a lot more sense financially and logistically. You can pay a lot of AI fees for what it costs to properly care for and maintain a stallion, and honestly, if you're only breeding a handful of mares a year, that's not worth having your own stud.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

That's some really good information, thanks @SilverMaple!! Since mine would be a small operation anyway, I would definitely be purchasing quality mares - I too have seen a lot of emphasis on stallions but not much on mares and the ones I HAVE seen from two quality parents are always nicer animals than those from one quality parent and one "meh" parent. Preferably I'd be looking at purchasing mares who are "accomplished" - that is, either having a decent show record or (higher on my list, since I'm going for more of a working animal) having spent a few years "on the job" doing something useful like logging, carriage work, plowing, etc and have proven themselves. Good conformation, temperament, etc are important too but I also want the emphasis to be on useable animals. 

I had thought that there would probably be two options upon starting this venture - either AI a slew of mares and hope for a stallion prospect, as you suggested, or spending the extra money to buy a prospect (or even more money to buy a proven stallion) straight out. The AI route would save a ton of money, although I rather like the idea of buying a proven stallion simply because you know exactly what you're getting. Then there's no waiting around and hoping you've got your pairings right … however really waiting for a few years for a stallion prospect to grow up won't be a terrible thing because I probably won't be acquiring more than a pair of mares a year anyway, so I'd have plenty of time. 

Now that you mention it, Thunder the Shire's breeder AIs all of her mares onsite. I don't think she ever hand breeds her studs, so that may be a large part of why they are so easy to handle around mares. I hadn't even thought of that, it makes very good sense. I agree about minimizing injury to rare expensive stallions and mares; I may have to rethink my earlier opposition to AI. I definitely wasn't planning on having a large herd, if I do this it will be small time - 10 horses or less I suppose, unless I can turn it into a money-making goldmine (using horses to MAKE money? lol). Especially in the beginning, I was simply planning on tinkering with genetics to produce quality, workable animals useful for a variety of purposes, while promoting a rare breed to the public. I will be perfectly happy if the sale of foals and any services I may render to the public (or things like shipping semen from any stallion(s) I may keep) allows me to break even - I am not going into this expecting to get rich.


-- Kai


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

My experience with working stallions that are used for breeding as well has been that if you have multiple then keeping them together and working them together works. Having a gelding or two in the work mix is not a problem. Adding mares become an issue. If you have just one stallion that breeds and works then putting him in the mix with your mares is not an issue if the boundaries between breeding and working are made very clear. Drafts that are handled and trained correctly and worked consistently generally have very good attitudes and work ethics. Temperament is a key selling point and working operations that have breeding stallions on hand expect the stallion to work so a suitable temperament is a must. The show world brought about a change from that basic and you see now hotter drafts in some breeds. Sticking with a primarily working breed and keeping them working keeps them honest.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I've really only read the posts on this last page, so I may be repeating some things said previously. 

I am a very small operation. I ended up buying a cremello stallion prospect (long yearling) about 8 years ago because I couldn't find any cremello mares I liked. I never got as far as pedigree, temperament or anything past conformation before I flunked them out. I saw Skippy, my stallion, being bathed, clipped and handled for the first time ever and then checked out his conformation when he got out of the grooming stall. Then looked at his pedigree and HYPP status (Impressive on his top line) to make sure he was not a carrier. Then went in and bid on him when he came up in the sale. His breeder was retiring and was selling off the majority of his horses. Then I went out and bought 1 mare, specifically to pair with him. She was in foal to a world champion, and I got a very nice gelding out of that match. Since then she's had 4 or 5 foals for me and I've picked up a couple more mares. Since I only breed for 2 foals at the most every year, I don't need a huge number of mares, I just need a few who consistently produce quality. 

I will hand breed Skippy to MY mares, but any outside mares have to be taken to OSU Breeding Farm and I haul Skippy out there to be collected. Once he's collected, then they spin out the excess junk and concentrate the semen, no extenders only fresh semen, then put it in the mares. The conception rate is almost as good as hand breeding (live cover). I NEVER do pasture breeding, there's just too much risk to the horses. If there's any question of the mare's temper a) I'll take her in and use fresh semen AI and most likely b) if she's not just a scared maiden, I'll sell her next year. Skippy works just fine doing hand breeding and collection on the dummy, but not all stallions can do that. Some will never take to the phantom, some won't if they've been hand bred, and some turn into obnoxious fools if hand bred but stay nice if only collected on a phantom. He also collects and ships just fine, you'll need to check the stallion's sperm quality before shipping to make sure he's one that can ship ok. Some can't. 

I keep the average foal between 3-5 years, to make sure they are well started and have a start on a show career or using discipline of some sort before they're sold. That's something to take into account before you breed, how many do you have on the ground, how well started are they, how soon will you be able to sell, can you support the extra horses? There's many a breeder who ends up dumping foals/youngsters at auction because they've over bred and can't afford the extra feed, vet & farrier bills. You also have to develop a SUPER critical eye to determine the quality of the foals. My hard and fast rule of thumb here is that all colts are gelded as soon as possible/practical. It would be a mighty outstanding colt who got to keep his jewels. Mares who don't cut it, produce less than quality foals consistently, are sold. I start all of my mares under saddle so that they can do something besides breed. 

Periodically I breed a mare(s) to an outside stallion to bring in fresh genetics, with an eye to keeping the foal if it's a filly. If it's a filly then I'll start her training just like any colt, but with an eye to keeping her to breed if she turns out satisfactory. If not, she's sold. For me, temperament trumps conformation. If I don't LIKE the foal, then I sell, ASAP. Some folks are not as picky about temper as I am, so it works out, maybe not as quickly as I'd like but it still works. If I determine the foal passes the temper test, then I look HARD at conformation, then athleticism. If the foal fails in any of the last 2 categories, then they're sold on. You really have to be able to detach yourself from the animal in front of you to be able to keep an unbiased eye and make the necessary culls. 

Let me make one point really clear. When I say cull or I don't LIKE or fails the temper, confo or athletics testing, doesn't mean it's not still a good using horse. I have a certain goal that I'm trying to meet when breeding, to turn out a certain kind of horse. Any horse who doesn't fit that description doesn't belong here, but could work very well for someone else. I'm not saying that I'm talking about a really inferior animal, just one who doesn't fit MY program or MY idea of the ideal horse, though in breeding you can get a rude surprise every now and then no matter how careful you are. What will you do with that foal? One who comes out with a parrot mouth, severe monkey bite, wonky legs (that can't be fixed), or just is beyond fugly and you wouldn't breed it on on a bet. You need to make a plan and get good picture of exactly what the horse you breed will look like and how it will act and then really force yourself to move those on who do not fit your goals. You need to make a plan for those foals, hopefully really rare, who do not come out even remotely like what you want, and/or have some sort of defect that keeps them from even being a good using horse.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

@Dreamcatcher Arabians I would also be planning on keeping my foals until they're at least green broke to drive, preferably until they've had some extensive driving time and are perhaps green broke to ride? I find that selling just a weanling/yearling doesn't give them as good of a chance to find a great home as selling a young horse who has some training under his belt. Also in my (albeit limited) experience with driving people don't tend to like to break horses to drive; they'd rather buy a well started young horse and do the finishing themselves. I don't know how many I'd want on the ground at any one time, but it wouldn't be very many. I'd probably start with two foals the first year, and maybe two the second, and that might be it for the first few years until I know I can handle that many babies. I'm in no hurry, I'd rather take my time and be successful than rush and end up with poor quality animals or ones that are half-trained. 

I agree that mares and stallions need to "earn their keep" by having a job besides churning out babies. That way, if I have 6 mares and only breed 4 that year, the two who are open would be my using horses for that year. Culling wouldn't be a problem for me, if I go into a horse knowing that he will eventually be for sale it is easy for me to keep myself unemotional about the whole thing. Especially if it were for a breeding program, where I would have a set of standards that MUST be met if the horse is to be kept, I will just run through the checklist. Well, this horse meets qualifications 1, 2, 4, and 5 but not 3 … has to meet number 3. Sell. 

Foals born defective would be hard, no denying that. If the defect would seriously affect the foal's quality of life I would have no problems putting it down, but for less severe things like parrot mouth that would not be a hugely terrible thing to live with those would be harder. I would try to find good homes for them but I realize a lot of people don't want high maintenance horses, particularly drafts which are already high maintenance to begin with. I would have to give them away for free, or sell them for a pittance, which would suck but again, I don't expect to get rich off this endeavor so for the odd wonky foal I'd have to simply do my best to find him a decent home however I could. Mares who threw a wonky foal twice would be sold fo sho. 

Thank you for your insight Dreamcatcher, it was very informative. If anybody else who is reading this post breeds, I'd like to hear from them as well. 


-- Kai


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

That's part of the commitment you need to be willing to put in. Breeding a rare breed of horse isn't enough. Unfortunately I find that a lot of local breeders do that and don't actually do anything with their horses other than continuously breed. That doesn't help anyone including the breed.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

They should all be using animals. We keep ours working until they are close. We breed for early babies so mares aren't heavy in the hotter part of the year. They get a little time to recoup and then they all go back to work. Babies either tied off to the harness or running loose.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Thought you might find this interesting


https://northamericansuffolkpunchspectacular.com/


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## Clove0007 (Dec 10, 2020)

Kaifyre said:


> I have been toying with the idea of breeding for a few years now, which is funny because anyone who knows me knows I am generally anti-breeding. I really feel that there are enough general purpose horses in the world today, and a good many folks out there who keep churning out foals would be better off gelding their studs and keeping their mares barren. I keep seeing people breed horses without papers, horses who have never done anything of note, horses who have crap conformation or sour attitudes or what have you. So I wanted my horse breeding, should I choose to do so, to mean something. I wanted to breed uncommon horses, that were not stock horse riding animals. This of course narrows the field considerably, as in America anyway the overwhelming majority of horses kept by the average person are stock horse riding types.
> 
> Then I bought Thunder the Shire. I have since fallen in love with draft horses, to the point where I have been considering selling Dreams to get into drafts and out of light horses altogether. Now I'm kind of low key wishing I hadn't gelded Thunder, even though he was never meant to be a show horse but instead a working animal, and since I bought him as a weanling I had no idea what I was getting temperament and conformation wise. I'm not too sore about gelding him though, as I had to board him and with the amount of loose horses we get every month my fears of a mare getting loose and being bred through the fence, or of Thunder getting loose and breeding a mare through the fence, were well founded. But now that I'm in the Shire horse loop I tend to see them everywhere, like when you buy a car and suddenly those cars are all over the place lol. I am finding a lot of them online with good breeding and good conformation and I want them all.
> 
> ...


I breed and sell one young draft cross each year. My foundation is built on a North American Spotted Draft stallion that I raised from birth. I am located in East Texas. There is a small, discerning buyer market for draft crosses.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Old thread.
Closing


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