# Curious to know the color?



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

She's a chestnut, sorry! Foal colors change a lot but you'd be seeing hints of the golden by now.

Why do you say you were lied to? It is completely possible that a palomino X buckskin pinto could produce a solid chestnut filly. It's one of the "lesser" chances, as it means neither of them threw their cream gene, but entirely possible.


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## xostallion (Aug 1, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> She's a chestnut, sorry! Foal colors change a lot but you'd be seeing hints of the golden by now.
> 
> Why do you say you were lied to? It is completely possible that a palomino X buckskin pinto could produce a solid chestnut filly. It's one of the "lesser" chances, as it means neither of them threw their cream gene, but entirely possible.


I can sorta see the golden in her legs and around her mouth but thats about it! 

I honestly didnt know they could throw a solid chestnut foal ! Wow haha maybe we wernt lied to, its just when we called the people who had her before it seemed they were lying to us because they wouldnt let us come get the papers for the sire to register her nor see the sire but if your saying they could then maybe we wernt lied to then. 

Thanks for your input though! there is nothing wrong with her color, only i was just curious. =)


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

CHestnut, no doubt about it! Or sorrel, whicever you prefer


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Although foal coats DO change color, a palomino is almost instantly identifiable in foals. If they're not already born golden, they're born almost white. There can be some question of doubt between a palomino and a chestnut right at birth due to the amount of white they tend to have around the legs and belly, but they'll almost immediately begin either lightning (palomino) or darkening (chestnut).

This little Mini is a good example of a foal not born quite "golden", and yet you can still see his eventual color clearly indicated by how light he is:










Here are more Mini's that don't look palomino yet, but you can definitely tell they're going to BE palomino:










Here's an example of a chestnut colt that you could almost see going "both ways" at birth but is already starting to darken down to a brown shade:










Hope that was helpful!


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## xostallion (Aug 1, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Although foal coats DO change color, a palomino is almost instantly identifiable in foals. If they're not already born golden, they're born almost white. There can be some question of doubt between a palomino and a chestnut right at birth due to the amount of white they tend to have around the legs and belly, but they'll almost immediately begin either lightning (palomino) or darkening (chestnut).
> 
> This little Mini is a good example of a foal not born quite "golden", and yet you can still see his eventual color clearly indicated by how light he is:
> 
> ...



That was most helpful thank you!
Thats a true bummer she probably wont change any lighter.
Shes still cute though!


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

I agree, she's definitely chestnut.

a little genetics lesson:
Chestnut horses are red-based (ee) who may or may not be carrying Agouti (the bay gene) - it only shows up on black-based horses.
Palominos are chestnut horses with one copy of the creme gene (ee CrC). They may or may not be carrying Agouti (the bay gene)
Buckskins are Bay horses with one copy of the creme gene. They always will have at least one copy of both extension (the gene that determines if a horse will be black or red based) & agouti, so their genetics will be E? A? CrC. Since your filly is chestnut (ee), we know the stud must have been Ee.

Assuming they both have one copy of Agouti, this is what they could have produced:

Ee Aa CrC x ee Aa CrC

Ee AA CrCr - Perlino
Ee aa CrCr - Smoky Creme
Ee Aa CrCr - Perlino
ee AA CrCr - Cremello
ee Aa CrCr - Cremello
ee aa CrCr - Cremello

Ee AA CrC - Buckskin
Ee aa CrC - Smoky Black
Ee Aa CrC - Buckskin
ee AA CrC - Palomino
ee Aa CrC - Palomino
ee aa CrC - Palomino

Ee AA CC - Bay
Ee aa CC - Black
Ee Aa CC - Bay
ee AA CC - Chestnut
ee Aa CC - Chestnut
ee aa CC - Chestnut

So that makes 18 genetic combinations & 9 different colours. There was a 1 in 6 shot of getting a chestnut.


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

In case you were expecting color (pinto markings), it's also possible that even though her sire was a buckskin pinto, you would get a solid color baby. I got a pretty solid bay filly out of a registered paint stallion (supposedly homozygous for color) and a grulla mare.

Dances with Rain (Rain) was foaled 06/28/10:


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## xostallion (Aug 1, 2010)

It wasnt that i was expecting a pinto/paint, the buckskin colors, i was just curious to know her color. I mean i admit im not to fimilar with the genetics of colors and such and i figured that because neither were chestnuts she's be lighter or take after one another. 


So hypothetical question. If i bred my filly to a black stud, what do you think her out come will be? Both mom and dad of the stud were true black. Any ideas?

Or with a black stud to a buckskin? Haha im sorry im so curious to know though.

=)


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

dee said:


> In case you were expecting color (pinto markings), it's also possible that even though her sire was a buckskin pinto, you would get a solid color baby. I got a pretty solid bay filly out of a registered paint stallion (supposedly homozygous for color) and a grulla mare.


Don't discount the stallion yet, he might well be homozygous. There is a lot more going on with pinto markings than meets the eye. There have been several tested cases where homozygous tobianos can be completely solid, for example. At the moment the theory seems to be that there is a 'white restriction' gene at play, but no one can find it yet.



> So hypothetical question. If i bred my filly to a black stud, what do you think her out come will be? Both mom and dad of the stud were true black. Any ideas?
> 
> Or with a black stud to a buckskin? Haha im sorry im so curious to know though.


Hypothetically - black to chestnut, without going into it too much, can give you Bay, Brown, Black and Chestnut. You won't get any dilutes (palomino, buckskin, smokey black, perlino or cremello) and you won't get Grey.

Black to buckskin - again, all four base colours. You can then get single dilutes - palomino, buckskin and smokey black. You still won't get grey. You also won't get any double dilutes - cremello or perlino.


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## xostallion (Aug 1, 2010)

Chiilaa said:


> Don't discount the stallion yet, he might well be homozygous. There is a lot more going on with pinto markings than meets the eye. There have been several tested cases where homozygous tobianos can be completely solid, for example. At the moment the theory seems to be that there is a 'white restriction' gene at play, but no one can find it yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That makes alot of sense now. Thank you!


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