# Stallion or Not?



## rookie (May 14, 2012)

What you are talking about is a cryptorchid/monorochid/ridling stallion or rig a horse that has retained a testicle. It is possible for a horse such as that to impregnant a mare. If there is a shadow of a question about your mare you can do one of three things. 
1. palpate the mare to confirm pregnancy
2. wait 11 ish months and see if a "surprise" appears
3. have the stallion tested (via blood test) to see where his testosterone levels are. 

If I was you, I would go with number one and heavily suggest the owners of the "stallion" test him and deal with the test results as indicated.


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## rayraystilwell (Jul 16, 2014)

rookie said:


> What you are talking about is a cryptorchid/monorochid/ridling stallion or rig a horse that has retained a testicle. It is possible for a horse such as that to impregnant a mare. If there is a shadow of a question about your mare you can do one of three things.
> 1. palpate the mare to confirm pregnancy
> 2. wait 11 ish months and see if a "surprise" appears
> 3. have the stallion tested (via blood test) to see where his testosterone levels are.
> ...


thank you for your advice! The vet is coming out at the end of the month and I may just go ahead and pay for her to get p alpated just to appease my own curiosity and for the safety of the rest of the mare on property.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

The possibility of a horse with retained testicles reproducing is very very slim to none. Sperm cannot grow or survive at normal body temperatures, which is why the testicles hang away from the body. If they are retained inside the body, the sperm will die before they could ever even reach full development.
If he only has one testicle retained, then he could still reproduce, though you would be able to see the other testicle. 
Another more probable possibility is that he has been proudcut, in which case he would still be unable to produce but will continue to act like a stallion.
I have known 2 geldings personally in the past who were not proud cut that still tried to breed mares.
Females are also prone to phantom pregnancies, where the body believes that it is pregnant but this will pass in time.
If you are worried, have her tested.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Agree, he could very well be 100% correctly gelded and still be.."especially interested in your mare" some are just pervs  at least with certain mares.

Regardless of ability to impregnate I would not let him cover her as it can lead to problems (infections etc).


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

As the owner of a proud cut gelding, I can defiantly say they breed mares. My colt Rebel, will mount the mares and breed them if they are in heat. He doesn't have sperm, but the little perv will do it.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I would have the mare checked for peace of mind. At the same time it is not unheard of for a gelding to try to breed a mare. It is also not unusual for a mare to have more noticeable heat cycles the first couple of times in the spring then the rest of the time have silent (no obvious signs of being in) heat cycles.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Someone on the forum had a foal this out from her mare and her sisters "gelding" cryptid) so its slim, but not impossible. There is a 4th option. you can have the mare luted for cheap and terminant any pregnancy she currently has, if she is not in foal it wont harm her either. I think retained testicals are genetic and IF its passed on that is a very expensive vet bill to correct.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

KigerQueen said:


> Someone on the forum had a foal this out from her mare and her sisters "gelding" cryptid) so its slim, but not impossible. There is a 4th option. you can have the mare luted for cheap and terminant any pregnancy she currently has, if she is not in foal it wont harm her either. I think retained testicals are genetic and IF its passed on that is a very expensive vet bill to correct.


 
Absolutely retained testicles are genetic and I see this cropping up in more and more Quarter horses and Paints. Unfortunately is it fairly expensive to complete the gelding (cost me $600.00 + overnight stay + antibiotic shots for 10 days on one I bought).
There are still plenty of unscrupulous vets out there willing to only take out the dropped testicle and leave the other which leads to dangerous stallion behavior.
I've had 3 beginner horse owner clients who bought registered geldings that turned out to be partially gelded and were quite dangerous around mares. Two of them did the right thing and paid for a full gelding and one sold the horse down the line to the next unsuspecting buyer.
I'd keep your mare strictly away from this "gelding" in the future-people are not always honest and these partial geldings are unfortunately becoming more common.:?


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

It is good to have your mare checked, but If your mare is indeed preggers, how will you convince the owner of the 'gelding' that her horse is indeed a stallion ? 
If someone told me my gelding was a stallion,, i would laugh at them. 
I have geldings that will mount and attempt to breed, I have seen neutered dogs hook up.
i have a smaller gelding that cannot go out with mares, he tries to mount and has ended sore in his hips , trying to get to the big girls, and this gelding is in his 30's.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

^ if there was only one gelding trying to mount the mares and mares where getting preggers, i dont think it would be a laughing matter. At that point you just get the "gelding" tested. IF he is an actual gelding then a stud ended up in there overnight. but more than likely the "gelding" will be a half gelded stud.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Even if he has one retained testicle, the sperm are dead and he can't produce. 

Sperm is only viable when kept outside the body, that is why testicles are in "sack" outside body. If he was a Chryp and had one testicle inside and one testicle outside and he was gelded by a vet and owner and only removed the outside one,(very unethical) then he can and will act like a stud.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

As said, MOST cryptorchids are sterile but it has been proven time and time again that not all are.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

So, Yogiwick, would you show me where it says a cryptorchid can produce foals? I am talking about a horse with either both testicles up inside the belly, or a "gelding' that has had the visible one removed and the second testicle is inside the belly........... I have worked for vets for 35 plus years and never seen this happen.
I am not talking about a chyptorchid that has one inside the belly and one outside in the scrotum. I am talking about a horse that has neither in the scrotum or a horse that has one testicle removed and one remaining inside the belly. Which is what happens when a colt is gelded that only has one testicle removed because it is the only one showing and the other in inside the belly. The OP says hers is a "gelding" so not talking about a horse with one testicle showing....


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I have had that issue with a few sheep I have had.

As far as horses I have not come across that issue first hand though have heard of it happening several times from valid sources.

I also don't see why if it can happen to a sheep it won't happen to a horse.

Agree it's VERY likely the animal will be sterile, just not 100%


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

I do believe that if the retained testicle isn't in the belly but is in the subcutaneous region of the inguinal ring (not actually dropped but resting there) it can theoretically get cool enough in part of the testicle for sperm to develop. (BUT this is SUPER unlikely and basically a 99.9% to .1 chance) So theoretically a "gelding" who had the dropped testicle removed but not the one in the belly could reproduce if the retained testicle tried to drop and just didn't quite make it later in life. I might be wrong but I am fairly sure I have heard of this.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yes, *due to heat* the sperm will be killed, nothing more nothing less, therefore, theoretically if the heat was reduced (for whatever reason) the sperm could potentially be viable.

I'm not at all saying it's common, I'm just saying it happens, and I do believe the location of the testicle(s) is/are relevant to that. (maybe the amount too?)


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

It is unlikely but it dose happen, again happened to someone on the forum last year. their foal should be about 4 months old now. as far as they knew he was a gelding, no nuts hanging down at all. then when their mare turned up preggers, they get him looked at. And vet said cryptid. So he was Re-gelded (last i knew anyway).


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

The only way that would be possible is if the testicle that is not in the scrotum is past the inguinal ring(which closes hence the testicle not being in the scrotum on mature horses)
but just under the skin. If this occurs sometimes the sperm can be viable because it is not in the belly. However, the testicle can be felt because it just lies under the skin, not up in the belly.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sure, just saying there are _some_ instances where the horse is a true cryptorchid and is at least somewhat sterile. Not saying it's common or that it can happen in any situation.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

But when you are told a horse is a gelding, how many actually check and feel for anything? This gelding, if I read right, does not belong to the OP and so I highly doubt that they went to check the gelding to see if anything was there under the skin. Another forum member had a mare luted after getting bred by the BO's "gelding". It turned out that the "gelding" wasn't a gelding at all and the barn owner had actually bought a stud colt who hadn't dropped yet, then pastured with mares at the time he actually did drop. It is possible that the gelding in this case, is a gelding and just shooting blanks. The mare could have had a spike in hormones from the "breeding" and goes into a false pregnancy that could last a couple months or a full year with the complete works of bagging up and a false labor before it ends. The biggest concern for me with a gelding mounting and "breeding" is the risk of uterine infections and injury to either during the process.


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## rayraystilwell (Jul 16, 2014)

SunnyDraco said:


> But when you are told a horse is a gelding, how many actually check and feel for anything? This gelding, if I read right, does not belong to the OP and so I highly doubt that they went to check the gelding to see if anything was there under the skin. Another forum member had a mare luted after getting bred by the BO's "gelding". It turned out that the "gelding" wasn't a gelding at all and the barn owner had actually bought a stud colt who hadn't dropped yet, then pastured with mares at the time he actually did drop. It is possible that the gelding in this case, is a gelding and just shooting blanks. The mare could have had a spike in hormones from the "breeding" and goes into a false pregnancy that could last a couple months or a full year with the complete works of bagging up and a false labor before it ends. The biggest concern for me with a gelding mounting and "breeding" is the risk of uterine infections and injury to either during the process.


That is also a concern of mine which explains her lack of going out and I am going to get her palates and examined when the vet comes. Rather be safe than sorry 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rayraystilwell (Jul 16, 2014)

No the 'gelding' in question does not belong to me. I have had no reason to go 'feeling' for a retained testicle and due to him not belonging to me I rather not instigate am argument by asking for a check.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Kiger.. I did not state it was a laughing matter that her mare got bred..
I SAID.. if someone came up to me and told me my Gelding impregnated their Mare I would laugh at them. I know my horses , they get cleaned and checked for Tumors . 
and I did not see where the OP has spoken to the geldings owner .


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

rayraystilwell said:


> No the 'gelding' in question does not belong to me. I have had no reason to go 'feeling' for a retained testicle and due to him not belonging to me I rather not instigate am argument by asking for a check.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you politely explain the situation I see no reason why asking for assurance would instigate an argument (IF the owners are reasonable, which may be a big if). Just don't be accusing, be concerned for your horse.


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