# You want a kid broke horse for how much?!



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Your cost has nothing to do with market value. My wife's 2004 Ford Explorer cost us far more than it is worth now. If you spend $600/month training your horse for a year, you'd better hope he has the performance record to back up his value - or you will take a huge loss.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

While I sympathize with the sentiment, there's simply no evidence for a dollars in = value out equation. 

And it's a delusion that pervades a lot of the horse industry. 

The only time, IME, that value added exceeds dollars in to produce that value is in finishing a horse in a discipline. You don't get it buying a yearling or two year old and waiting it for it to mature, and you don't get it by buying a three year old and green breaking it, because there are lots of competent horsepeople that can do those things. Taking a green broke 4 year old with potential and turning it into a finished horse? Yup, there's money to be made there, because it's a much smaller pool of people capable of doing it. 

Truly child safe horses have usually returned part of their value equation to their owners and trainers long before a market price is set. That said, there should be a minimum price point set on any horse that truly has enough good mileage to be considered child safe. However, that minimum price STILL has nothing to do with dollars in. 

People who try to negotiate the price on a child safe horse usually end up negotiating the child's safety.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Agreed with the above statements

But I do see people wanting a kid-broke horse that grandma can ride, dad can rope on, etc. And they don't want to pay more than 400. Oh, and the horse can't be over 6 yrs. old


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

When I was looking for my first horse, I wanted a supposed childbroke horse. I'm not unwilling to pay for it, but what I discovered was people put that on their ads and then you get there and the horse is nowhere near that. If people were more willing to list a horses faults so that the person could make their minds up with all the information then paying a fair price wouldn't be so hard.
I have so many people call about my gelding and they always want to know if a beginner or younger child could ride, I always say no. It's not because he isn't well mannered or trained it's because it will take a lot more miles before he can attain that been there done that status. I'm not going to raise his price as he ages and gets more experienced, he is what he is a horse. He isn't registered, I didn't pay a lot for him, he is a gelding for a reason. When he leaves my home I want him to go to a home that can get a lot enjoyment out of him. I'd be feeding him regardless so don't see why food bill is added in there. 
When people start talking about making money off horses I always get a little twitchy, there is no real money to be made by the average horse person.
This is just my opinion. ;-)


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

chandra1313 said:


> When I was looking for my first horse, I wanted a supposed childbroke horse. I'm not unwilling to pay for it, but what I discovered was people put that on their ads and then you get there and the horse is nowhere near that. If people were more willing to list a horses faults so that the person could make their minds up with all the information then paying a fair price wouldn't be so hard.
> I have so many people call about my gelding and they always want to know if a beginner or younger child could ride, I always say no. It's not because he isn't well mannered or trained it's because it will take a lot more miles before he can attain that been there done that status. I'm not going to raise his price as he ages and gets more experienced, he is what he is a horse. He isn't registered, I didn't pay a lot for him, he is a gelding for a reason. When he leaves my home I want him to go to a home that can get a lot enjoyment out of him. I'd be feeding him regardless so don't see why food bill is added in there.
> When people start talking about making money off horses I always get a little twitchy, there is no real money to be made by the average horse person.
> This is just my opinion. ;-)


Totally agree there. Once upon a time I set out to make a bit of a profit on horses. But I learned long ago that truly, you can't expect to make anything off what you do unless you devote your entire life to the /profit/. And I wasn't willing to sacrifice time with my horses to make money off someone else's. 

I have mixed feelings on people looking for cheap kid-friendly horses. I have one now that didn't cost me a cent and in the past I've paid heavily for something of the same quality. All depends on the time and the market. There are situations where people get bored of the kid friendly ones and want something younger and faster. And then there are people that just lose interest.

If you know what to look for and you are out for the right reason you can usually find a good deal but it takes wading through a whole lot of crap to get one. And that is truly not worth it. Just pay what the horse is worth and be smart about what you look for. That is my opinion on it.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

Thirteenacres I couldn't have said it better ;-) The real problem is when you first start off your as green as the horse your looking for, I know I was. My first horse was dirt cheap, I even bought it from a friend. I actually thought that when he said he would come and break it for me that their was going to be a bronc ride and bam I would be riding the next day **** I had only rode my grandmothers childbroke ponies growing up. Three years later I have finally deciphered the horse ads lol Childbroke horses in my opinion are usually slightly dull to what goes on around them, and they have to be that way to put up with the pulling the tugging, the super cinchers out there the unbalanced way we ride when we first start off. And of course once you have mastered them your usually going to want something with more spunk.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

The way this is normally put :

It is not the initial investment, its the up-keep.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

With the hay prices the way they are now, I wish it actually was 'investment= value'... I would have gotten a heck of a lot more for the two horses we sold (CHEAP) recently, lol. Well, a good home for them is enough...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Many people don't realize how much time and work it often takes to produce a horse that is suitable for a child or beginner to confidently ride. For some reason, non-horsey people believe that horses are born broke and require no actual training to be suitable for kids/grandparents/beginners/husbands/etc.

They don't consider that the type of horse they really need has been under saddle for no less than 5-10 years. That's 5-10 years of feed, training, care, work, etc, that have already gone into it. Not to mention that not every horse will make a good child/beginner mount. Of the 14 horses on my property, many of whom have been with my family since birth or a very young age, do you know how many will safely pack a beginner or child? 1. I have a couple others that would be suitable for just about anyone...if they got 30-60 days with a good trainer as a refresher course. But, around here that would add $600-$1200 to their price just for a month or two of training.

Non-horsey people think of horses more along the lines of cars; being flashy and pretty and young = more money. He's ugly and older? He's bottom of the line and should be cheap.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

I as a non horsey first time buyer ;-) thought if I buy one that is young I will have years ahead of me to ride him. 
I don't think of buying hay and having farrier work done as value put in. It's like buying milk or gassing up your car. Putting professional training on them has value and recouping that seems fair.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

You get paid back on training either by their improved performance or by your improved pleasure in riding them.

In Dec 2010, I sold a purebred Arabian, with probably $2000 in training (we bought her 'never ridden'), for $600. I probably could have gotten $1000 for her on the open market, but wanted her to go to someone who cared about horses and wouldn't use her as a 2/month ride.

I got my value in watching her training, and in the riding we did with her afterward. It is like remodeling a house - with rare exceptions, you don't get the money back when you sell.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I would be perfectly willing to pay for a kid broke horse if it were really kid broke...


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I absolutely agree. Most new to horses don't have a clue what it takes to make a true kid's horse. I can't count the number of times I've been asked (begged even) to sell my old sorrel mare, I always answer with "Can you reimburse me for the 20 years it took to make her the solid, old mare she is today?" If someone would take me up on it, I might consider selling her :lol:

My biggest frustration isn't price tag, it's how many sellers tout their horses as kid safe, beginner friendly, bomb proof (hate that term) when they are far from it. I'm looking for a student right now, big enough budget, but even those in the price range have all had issues not suitable for a kid to try to deal with. I'm sorry but I'm not going to pay 10k for a horse that has to be lunged until it's sweaty because it's so cold backed it will dump the kid if he just wants to go ride or has to be sedated to have it's feet trimmed or...or...or.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

bsms said:


> Your cost has nothing to do with market value. My wife's 2004 Ford Explorer cost us far more than it is worth now. If you spend $600/month training your horse for a year, you'd better hope he has the performance record to back up his value - or you will take a huge loss.


Like I stated in the original post I got it off Facebook. Personally I wouldn't pay $600/month unless it was a proven professional that has been doing it for years with many happy customers. But that's not the point of the post, its to show how much money/time goes into training a horse to be kid safe. Also it states on the picture that the prices for everything listed are subject to change depending on your area. :wink: 



maura said:


> While I sympathize with the sentiment, there's simply no evidence for a dollars in = value out equation.
> 
> Truly child safe horses have usually returned part of their value equation to their owners and trainers long before a market price is set. That said, there should be a minimum price point set on any horse that truly has enough good mileage to be considered child safe. However, that minimum price STILL has nothing to do with dollars in.
> 
> People who try to negotiate the price on a child safe horse usually end up negotiating the child's safety.


IMHO, you are never going to get the amount out of a horse that you put in it, BUT if you want a well broke horse you have to understand where the people are coming from when they ask for what they do. I know around here you can't buy a truly broke horse for less then $1000, and I know other places that its upwards of $2000. 

The point that I'm trying to get at with this post is that horses are expensive, and if you want a safe horse/pony for your kid then you have to think about what money has been put in before you start asking people to give away their truly kid safe horse.



AmazinCaucasian said:


> But I do see people wanting a kid-broke horse that grandma can ride, dad can rope on, etc. And they don't want to pay more than 400. Oh, and the horse can't be over 6 yrs. old


Exactly! In order to have a kid safe horse, it has to have YEARS, and most people don't want an older horse because they think it'll kick the bucket in a few years. 

I've seen so many ads for kid safe three year olds. :-x The horse is JUST being started under saddle at that age or not even ridden yet (or should be)!



chandra1313 said:


> I'm not unwilling to pay for it, but what I discovered was people put that on their ads and then you get there and the horse is nowhere near that.
> 
> If people were more willing to list a horses faults so that the person could make their minds up with all the information then paying a fair price wouldn't be so hard.
> 
> When people start talking about making money off horses I always get a little twitchy, there is no real money to be made by the average horse person.


That is why you go and try the horse/pony out, and ride it around for an hour or so. Figure out what it knows, how it acts, and do everything that you know you'd be doing with it. Take it a few feet down the road to see if its good there, anything and everything you can think of that you're going to encounter ask the horse to do. Bring desensitizing things with you, like bags, and bottles and make them move and crackle. 

That is why you email the people and ask for faults, and if they say the horse doesn't have any go try it out and do the above.

I said the same thing above.



ThirteenAcres said:


> I have one now that didn't cost me a cent and in the past I've paid heavily for something of the same quality.
> 
> If you know what to look for and you are out for the right reason you can usually find a good deal but it takes wading through a whole lot of crap to get one. And that is truly not worth it. Just pay what the horse is worth and be smart about what you look for. That is my opinion on it.


That is rare to find a good horse for cheap, but it does happen. I paid $800 for my barrel mare, and most of the time we beat the $2000 barrel horses with bad habits, like not listening to aids when in the chute, having no brakes, or rearing, etc. 

IMO looking through all the crap and finally finding my perfect horse is exciting, but I find it fun looking for horses to buy. :lol:



chandra1313 said:


> The real problem is when you first start off your as green as the horse your looking for, I know I was.
> 
> I actually thought that when he said he would come and break it for me that their was going to be a bronc ride and bam I would be riding the next day ****


That's why its always best to find someone (or a few people) to help you look, and go with you to look at the horse. 

I'm sorry, but that is so funny because when I was little I thought the same thing! :rofl:



Missy May said:


> The way this is normally put :
> 
> It is not the initial investment, its the up-keep.


I think that is what the people were trying to get at when they made the photo, I was just having trouble saying that. :lol:



soenjer55 said:


> With the hay prices the way they are now, I wish it actually was 'investment= value'... I would have gotten a heck of a lot more for the two horses we sold (CHEAP) recently, lol. Well, a good home for them is enough...


Investment doesn't equal value, but its so that people understand how much money went into the horse that someone is selling for $1000 or more.



smrobs said:


> For some reason, non-horsey people believe that horses are born broke and require no actual training to be suitable for kids/grandparents/beginners/husbands/etc.
> 
> They don't consider that the type of horse they really need has been under saddle for no less than 5-10 years. That's 5-10 years of feed, training, care, work, etc, that have already gone into it. Not to mention that not every horse will make a good child/beginner mount.
> 
> Non-horsey people think of horses more along the lines of cars; being flashy and pretty and young = more money. He's ugly and older? He's bottom of the line and should be cheap.


I know; I wish that it was that easy. :lol:

Exactly, my mare that was put down last year at age 30+ wasn't a kid safe horse, and the older she got the more she wasn't a kid horse. It depends on the horse.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

I have been lucky enough to have gotten three kid safe horses over the years - and I do mean LUCKY!

The first was some sort of Welch cob, the draft kind. I paid $100 for him and that included delivery 50 miles away. This guy was great and my four year old coudl halter and him walk him all over the place. I could toss her up on his back and they would trot up and down the driveway. The vet estimated his age at about 35 due to his almost complete lack of any teeth. We had him for a fantastic four years before one day he just didn't wake up.

The second kid horse I got was from a rescue. He was in his late teens. He was dumped at the rescue because even though he was completely blind in one eye and partially blind in the other, he had started to bring home red ribbons instead of blue ones. That little Arab carried my then 7 year old daughter up and over the steepest of hills and I never once had to worry about her. He was worth his weight in gold.

The third kid safe horse I got I traded a rather expensive show horse for - though as we don't show, she was not worth that much to us as she was an arena horse and we rode trails. The mare we got was the ugliest horse I have ever seen, but I could toss my kid up on her and we could take off down the trails and I knew she was safe. She was ornery, a SOB to catch, and generally not a likable horse, but she kept my kid safe and that was all that mattered. She was in her early 20s.

All in all, I lucked out with finding good kid's horses for my daughter. I wish the Arab had lived longer (we lost him to cancer after just two years), but we really enjoyed the time we had with him. The ugly Morgan was outgrown and went on to be another kid's confidance builder - for free. I cant put a price on a kid's safety, even if it is not my kid!


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I've been blessed with some really good ones, one of my favorites was a large pony that took a bunch of my kids to their first shows, PC rallies, events and fox hunting. Good mover, scored in the 60s in his dressage tests with a good kid on him. Got him when he was 18 and he stayed useful into his 30s. 

The last several years I had him I got cash offers for him any time I took him anywhere, but significantly, never from parents or new owners, always from other professionals. Other professionals would watch him take care of a kid and pack them around a course and walk over to me at the rail and make an offer. I would say "You know he's 23, right?" and the answer would be "Yes, I don't care, I need something like that in my barn." The point being, other professionals recognized what a truly precious thing a kind, kid safe horse was, and they didn't care about color or age. I never, ever considered selling him at any price because he was irreplacable. 

So, if the point of the original post is that most people have no idea what it takes to make a truly made kid safe horse, I heartily concur. And I'm sorry if I got bogged down in the silliness of expecting to recoup your feed cost when you sell, and missed that very good point.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

All in all, I lucked out with finding good kid's horses for my daughter. I wish the Arab had lived longer (we lost him to cancer after just two years), but we really enjoyed the time we had with him. The ugly Morgan was outgrown and went on to be another kid's confidance builder - for free. I cant put a price on a kid's safety, even if it is not my kid![/QUOTE]


I like your attitude Yadlim, its nice to pass a good kid horse off to another kid.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

I just bought a 13yr old mare quarter horse. I sent my husband out and his friend to look at her and stayed home. They were asking 500 and she had been a broodmare for 7yrs. The lady was very upfront told me that she was as broke as could be but after 7yrs of not being ridden she didn't know how the mare would do. 
My husband likes to get right to the point so jumped on her barebacked with a rope halter and lead rope on, she listened. His friend likes to check out how sensitive they are. His friend came home drooling and my husband said she was gorgeous, had lots of muscles. I spent two days thinking on it and went out to see her for myself, I was sold when I led her around and not once did I feel like she was going to step on me. She respected my space and needed very little asking to back and follow. 
I felt guilty for only paying 500 dollars for such a sweet girl. I didn't care that she was registered. I just wanted a good ole mare.
I got lucky they were getting out of the breeding business and needed to move some horses.


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## TexasAndi (Mar 3, 2012)

My 10 yo gelding was supposed to have been a "been there done that" horse that was used for lessons. I can tell you that the next horse I buy will be at a proper weight and cared for because it's amazing how different they are with some good groceries. 

So...as a first time horseowner, I found a great trainer and I should end up with a horse I can use. But, alas, I still want to find one for the boys to learn on. Too bad a lot of the people selling don't advertise what they really have.

So, I am re-training the one I have and still looking for that family-friendly equine. If anyone is here in North Texas and knows of one, let me know!  And, yes, I am willing to pay a fair price.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

My first horse was bought for me by my father. He was 15 years old or so, if I remember correctly. He was probably 16 hands tall, though anything upward of 15hh is TALL to me, so he may not have been as giant as I remember. He was pure white (actually grey now that I am educated, but at the time I thought I had a WHITE dream horse). When he got home, he was coughing and had a runny nose. Vet diagnosed as shipping cough. 

So he immediately went into a 2 week quarantine (we had no other horses, but I had a friend to trail ride with). The first time I rode him off our property I came home with blisters from holding him back. He was high spirited and loved to run. But he was /safe/. I had no experience what so ever aside from pony rides before that, but I rode that gelding 100's of miles before I passed him on to another beginner. He taught me how to barrel race (we actually learned together), and did everything from riding trails to playdays to chasing cows. Looking back, I would have never sold him now for his weight in gold. 

My dad paid $900 for him. He was grade and his name was "Rufus", later to become Rebel (everyone said he looked like a civil war general's horse). 

The youngest kid broke horse I've ever trusted just turned 6, and she's absolutely amazing. She belongs to my riding partner and sadly she may be retired this year due to an unknown injury. (Why is it always the best ones??)


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

maura said:


> The last several years I had him I got cash offers for him any time I took him anywhere, but significantly, never from parents or new owners, always from other professionals. Other professionals would watch him take care of a kid and pack them around a course and walk over to me at the rail and make an offer. I would say "You know he's 23, right?" and the answer would be "Yes, I don't care, I need something like that in my barn." The point being, other professionals recognized what a truly precious thing a kind, kid safe horse was, and they didn't care about color or age. I never, ever considered selling him at any price because he was irreplacable.


...or offers from older, experienced riders tired of eating dirt.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Haha! Been there!

Sometimes the young, flighty ones get old and you want something that goes the pace of a snail to get a break.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

OOH! I think I just thought something clever, LOL- If you think about, in a way, investment DOES equal value- Healthy horses go for more, and keeping a horse healthy means spending money on good feed, the farrier, etc.- and well- trained horses are worth more, so that means either a heck of a lot more time on your part or a heck of a lot more money spent on a trainer- either way, investment can be money! So you may not get more for a horse according to the chart in the OP, but it's not entirely false that you get more money for more investment in a horse. 
Just thought I'd share my thought process after seeing this picture posted on facebook by my sister, LOL.


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