# Mid west horse abuse.. How not to train your horse to load...



## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

OH this makes me mad. lunge whip anyone? or maybe just a lunge line till it loads? shes supposed to be a trainer... yea if that were my horse that trainer would have 2 black eyes. and id have jail time.


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## OkieGal (Dec 14, 2011)

That is one time I wish a horse would kick out! Ugh!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

A smack with a lunge whip hurts worse than a wiffle ball bat. A wiffle ball bat is not really abuse. I have seen way worse trailer loading.

Not my first choice for loading one though.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I see NO abuse, no blood, no injuries, no rope burns, no marks or welts -- nothing to call abusive at all. 

I also DO NOT see a 'good trainer'. I see one that is less than effective, has lost her temper and is not 'teaching' the horse to load.

When either the horse or the handler is in 'reactive' mode, no learning is taking place. 

JMHO, Cherie


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

That was a plastic bat, they don't hurt.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Here we go again ........


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## HorsesAreMyPassion (Feb 16, 2012)

Her timing is terrible.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Not abusive, just plain ol stupid. I use those plastic bats to get after my dogs because they can get the reaction I want without actually hurting, and I've been known to threaten Indie with one a few times :lol:

Her attitude was all wrong though, the lady went off the handle a bit and really seems (from what I can tell in this short time frame) to be a bad trainer, or at least someone who doesn't know how to walk away before losing their temper. Her movements were choppy and messy and all over the place, she was no direct with her energy and very out of focus with the horse. Again, not abuse, just plain ol dumb.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I agree with HorsesAreMyPassion. I wouldn't of had a big problem with it if she'd had the correct timing, but she was hitting the animal even when it was moving forewards. Goodness.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

That lady needs a good lesson on punishment. I agree, her timing isn't the...erm....greatest.

But still, not abuse.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

She sure is a horrible excuse for a trainer, but abuse-NO. 

If the person behind the camera knows so much why not help? Just a thought.  If you stand by while you really thunk a horse is being abused-you are just as bad as the abuser.

Again, this is certainly not a method I would use, but now the horse is desensitized to wiffle bats! And yes, OP-had that bat been a whip-I would have had an issue..But I am more apt to go help.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Abusive is becoming way overused


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My son had one of those bats and whacked me with it more than once and it barely got my attention. Macpac I agree whole heartedly with your statement.


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

texasgal said:


> Here we go again ........



:shock: I said we were predictable didn't I? Tell me ya saw this one coming after some of the others today


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

I didn't choose the title to the video, abuse nah that horse will be fine but bad training yeah I wouldn't want her. Training. My horse! It was more. About what. Not to do... And it ticked meoff so I figured icould rant here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

greenbryerfarms said:


> I didn't choose the title to the video, abuse nah that horse will be fine but bad training yeah I wouldn't want her. Training. My horse! It was more. About what. Not to do... And it ticked meoff so I figured icould rant here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It really was bad training LOL. I'd be surprised if her career isn't over because of this going public. Private moments going public..... sucks hard to in her shoes and some others that have hit the forum recently I'd imagine.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

This is not an approach or trainer I would use, but I do not think it is "abusive" per say.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

You can absolutely post here. But know that not everyone is going to agree. We all have different opinions of what "abuse" is. To some, that's abuse. To others, it's not.

I am appalled by her behavior because she should know better then to let her anger over-take her like that. But a cheap plastic bat can't do any damage to a horse. LoL.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Linda Parelli was at the Fair. They should have gone & got her.


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

natisha said:


> Linda Parelli was at the Fair. They should have gone & got her.


:clap::rofl::happydance::happydance:
2 horse trainers with whiffle ball bats yep, that might have worked :think:


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

CLaPorte432 said:


> You can absolutely post here. But know that not everyone is going to agree. We all have different opinions of what "abuse" is. To some, that's abuse. To others, it's not.
> 
> I am appalled by her behavior because she should know better then to let her _*anger*_ over-take her like that. But a cheap plastic bat can't do any damage to a horse. LoL.


That one word right there. If you discipline your child, horse, or whatever in anger, then what is the point. They learn nothing except fear. And you get nothing except a crappy conscience or worse....


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

greenbryerfarms said:


> I didn't choose the title to the video, abuse nah that horse will be fine but bad training yeah I wouldn't want her. Training. My horse! It was more. About what. Not to do... And it ticked meoff so I figured icould rant here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You did, however, choose the title of your post - and that title includes "abuse"


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Rascaholic said:


> :clap::rofl::happydance::happydance:
> 2 horse trainers with whiffle ball bats yep, that might have worked :think:


That and a tub of mud-and we would actually have something entertaining!:lol:


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> That and a tub of mud-and we would actually have something entertaining!:lol:


:twisted::thumbsup:


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> You can absolutely post here. But know that not everyone is going to agree. We all have different opinions of what "abuse" is. To some, that's abuse. To others, it's not.
> 
> I am appalled by her behavior because she should know better then to let her anger over-take her like that. But a cheap plastic bat can't do any damage to a horse. LoL.


Lol I do say I agree with you as I said above he will be fine! But I know myboyfriend is victomof not agreeing with me and horses he said everyone should leave her alone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

Oh dere.. I put that bc. Itwas the videos name not that I thought that. Illchoose more carefully next time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

natisha said:


> linda parelli was at the fair. They should have gone & got her.


****!....


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Was it even a bat? I looked at bigger screen and it did look like a swimming noodle... Not a good approach, but I would say horse didn't look to be very terrified of it. 

I agree, the word "abuse" is getting to the point of being abused...


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Maybe stupid but not abuse.... the bats like that make alot of noise and dont hurt. She made a bit of a fool of herself for not taking the time to just let the horse walk on. as it did eventually. Maybe she was in a hurry LOL


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## TarraTraditi (Apr 20, 2012)

I must be nuts..but I find this extremely offensive!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Gotta love the other horse just stuffing its face full of grass :lol:

Poor training, and I feel sorry for the horse for having to put up with that trainer. But not abuse.. faaaar from it. Stupidity? Quite so.


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## shoofly (Apr 24, 2012)

*Trl loading mhf*

Thought for those viewing this trailer loading incident. If this person was hitting a child, a dog, a woman etc... would you then think it abusive. I personally, do not think there is any reason to wind up and hit a scared animal with that much force. That maybe a plastic whiffle bat, but I would not want to be hit with it in that fashion. Her stance, her actions, all are out of frustration and anger, and it is abuse. Think again and please reconsider. There are many other options here than this, and it should not be tolerated.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

shoofly said:


> Thought for those viewing this trailer loading incident. If this person was hitting a child, a dog, a woman etc... would you then think it abusive. I personally, do not think there is any reason to wind up and hit a scared animal with that much force. That maybe a plastic whiffle bat, but I would not want to be hit with it in that fashion. Her stance, her actions, all are out of frustration and anger, and it is abuse. Think again and please reconsider. There are many other options here than this, and it should not be tolerated.


I've hit children and dogs and my grown sister (thus a woman) with wiffle bats before... :rofl:


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

From my experience, getting all worked up trying to load a horse never turns out well. Patience will eventually get the horse in the trailer. Granted one mare I sold took us over an hour to get in a two horse straight load because she was used to a three horse slant, but eventually she did walk in and stay. We just kept working outside of the trailer until she realized that getting inside was a nice place to rest.


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## shoofly (Apr 24, 2012)

*Enablers*

Quite frankly i would rather hear from the ones being hit than the ones doing the hitting!!! Because i have been hit with coat hangers, metal pots and pans, hair brushes and bare fists, and i know what it is like to be on the recieving end of someone elses anger. No matter what instrument that is used the fear it creates is still the same. If you go at anyone or anything in anger it is abuse.


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

kitten_Val said:


> ****!....


This just makes me more stunned haha.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

DressageDreamer said:


> From my experience, getting all worked up trying to load a horse never turns out well. Patience will eventually get the horse in the trailer. Granted one mare I sold took us over an hour to get in a two horse straight load because she was used to a three horse slant, but eventually she did walk in and stay. We just kept working outside of the trailer until she realized that getting inside was a nice place to rest.


This. Is what I do. Also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Tianimalz said:


> I've hit children and dogs and my grown sister (thus a woman) with wiffle bats before... :rofl:


LOL - at first glance I read "I've hit children and dogs WITH my grown sister........." now that was a mental image!


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## Adam (Feb 6, 2012)

shoofly said:


> Quite frankly i would rather hear from the ones being hit than the ones doing the hitting!!! Because i have been hit with coat hangers, metal pots and pans, hair brushes and bare fists, and i know what it is like to be on the recieving end of someone elses anger. No matter what instrument that is used the fear it creates is still the same. If you go at anyone or anything in anger it is abuse.


 
You are now hearing from someone who has been hit by a wifflebat. From someone in anger. Didn't hurt. Wasn't abuse. I've also been smacked by a 2x4. Now, THAT hurt!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I have not seen one person say that what was done is/was "right"


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

People on youtube are saying the horse fliped. Over on someone during its show. I do believe that's a training problem but they said the trainerhadaright because of the horses actions but the horse is with a trainer shouldn't she be training it to not act theseways?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adam (Feb 6, 2012)

themacpack said:


> I have not seen one person say that what was done is/was "right"


 
And you probably won't. Assaulting your horse in public with a wifflebat is a grand way to make yourself look like an absolute moron, and I will be the first to say it wasn't right. I also don't think it was abuse.


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

Adam, your carrot fooled me. I tried to grab it to put into a basket! ****!


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## Adam (Feb 6, 2012)

DressageDreamer said:


> Adam, your carrot fooled me. I tried to grab it to put into a basket! ****!


 
It's the only way I can get people to visit my profile LOL!!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Adam said:


> And you probably won't. Assaulting your horse in public with a wifflebat is a grand way to make yourself look like an absolute moron, and I will be the first to say it wasn't right. I also don't think it was abuse.


I am in absolute agreement with you - mostly just thinking outloud in response to shoo/bryer and their apparent interpretation of what HAS been said as ringing endorsment for the "Whiffle Bat Training Method".


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Wiffle-bats-r-us.com


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

Adam said:


> It's the only way I can get people to visit my profile LOL!!


I get so excited everytime I see a carrot that I start clicking. I am a sad little woman!!


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

Now that all have said its not right and the trainer was out of control. and Wiffle bats dont hurt they just make alot of noise. 
But what I see and why I hate side loads is the dang narrow door on so many models. all it takes is a horse to hit its hip to refuse to enter what is so narrow and dark inside, now add the anger and you got even a more sour horse for loading.
I will always stick to my side by side or head to heads TY 
Now for the one who taped the video she broke 2 laws if that was in NH 
Video taping with intent to slander and showing ones license plate and posting it without permission. Since the woman was probably not charged with abuse because it wasnt the one who posted the video claimed abuse that falls under slander laws once she posted it on Youtube. and stated abuse.
in this whole thing people need to "THINK" before reacting.
Personally the two doing the video taping sound to me like nosey teenagers that just look for trouble. JMO
TRR
Ps I do not agree with how the trainer handle the situation by any means as I would of used a longe line and two people holding it and applying even pressure behind the horses legs just behind the gaskin till the horse loads. Once home I would work on getting the horse to load without issues.

TRR


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## shoofly (Apr 24, 2012)

*MHF - trailer loading*

We participate at this event and the event is filled with trainers, and training clinics, and many breed demos, and all styles of riding and every horse imaginable. It is to present horses and horsemanship at its very best to the public. Much time and energy and practice goes into all the events that are promoted here. This incident does not reflect the overall message that is intended for the youth and the public as to what horsemen do with there horses. I feel that in this day there are so many different training methods available that somewhere we have to draw the line at what is acceptable. I am surprised at the tolerance for this situation. I was at this event but did not witness it, but I know the huge number of people that attend this event every year and read the notes that it took place in front of a group of people, and several youths & find it very disturbing.


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## HorsesAreMyPassion (Feb 16, 2012)

I do not agree with the method the trainer chose to use at all. Everything about it was wrong in my opinion, and I don't think that anyone else here agrees on it either.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

shoofly said:


> Thought for those viewing this trailer loading incident. If this person was hitting a child, a dog, a woman etc... would you then think it abusive. I personally, do not think there is any reason to wind up and hit a scared animal with that much force. That maybe a plastic whiffle bat, but I would not want to be hit with it in that fashion. Her stance, her actions, all are out of frustration and anger, and it is abuse. Think again and please reconsider. There are many other options here than this, and it should not be tolerated.


I also do not see 'abuse'. Not smart for sure.

The horse was not scared. The horse was being stubborn. That is the MOST frustrating kind of horse to load. The 'trainer' allowed the frustration to take over.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I really cannot see anything that I would call abuse - what I do see is ignorance of the loaders.


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

Who gets to decide where to draw that line? You? A bunch of people who have no clue WHY something is done a certain way to train a certain horse??? WHO does the deciding on who gets to police us? I think we pay enough in tax dollars to staff the local ASPCA and Humane Societies. BUT I also think it is people screaming abuse about something like this that waste these agencies time and keep them on the go where REAL abuse cases are often times overlooked.

I personally have a very good brain. I use mine. I will, and have stepped in when I saw abuse happening. I will, and have stepped in when I could when crappy training was happening. I don't shout abuse until it becomes bloody, life threatening, or endlessly repetitious to the point of doing serious mental harm.

I did not see that anywhere on this video, or the last 3 that have been posted on the forum screaming abuse.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

So what ever happened to "the good old days" when folks actually talked to each other instead of videotaping them and posting it not he internet like a teen age girl. Seriously. Man up(Cowgirl up, grow a pair-whatever your choice....) if you feel it is abuse and DO something! This reminds me of kids tattling to the teacher. Geesh.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> So what ever happened to "the good old days" when folks actually talked to each other instead of videotaping them and posting it not he internet like a teen age girl. Seriously. Man up(Cowgirl up, grow a pair-whatever your choice....) if you feel it is abuse and DO something! This reminds me of kids tattling to the teacher. Geesh.


I'm a fan of "Put on the big-girl panties!" :lol:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

^^Yup-that too.


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

greenbryerfarms said:


> OH this makes me mad. lunge whip anyone? or maybe just a lunge line till it loads? shes supposed to be a trainer... yea if that were my horse that trainer would have 2 black eyes. and id have jail time.


People do lose their temper and don't always act properly. But to have the nerve to go take my licensed plate down. You wouldn't have left there I would have detained you til the police and animals controlcame and had the situation resolved and then sue the crap out of who ever took the video.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

I am not saying they weren't wrong but this videoing is getting ridiculous. It wasn't abuse just poor execution of loading a horse.
Total violation of someone's rights.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Easter (Dec 24, 2011)

Read the video description. I believe the lady lost her job over this video?..the NERVE the have to accuse of potentially 'attacking' the video-er? Its over. The video won. 



> *Update 04/24/2012 : Spoke with the GM of the MWHF, they are currently working to finish a public statement which I will provide a link to once it is made available.
> 
> I received a phone call from Waunakee Police this afternoon as a courtesy that Cyndi had called in complaint of me for fear of her safety. I want to remind people to please not call her phone or email her directly with any threats about this situation. If you want to make a difference then make a call to Timothy Frank and request that they make a formal inquiry into the welfare and well-being of the horses in her care.
> 
> ...


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

Easter said:


> Read the video description. I believe the lady lost her job over this video?..the NERVE the have to accuse of potentially 'attacking' the video-er? Its over. The video won.[/QUO
> Thank you
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

You know this whole situation just reeks of what that horse puts out after dinner.

This is one of my definitions of abuse. Myla, a really sweet mare.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Abuse? Eehhhhh. Depending on the horse's frame of mind, but since we weren't _there_ and didn't see the befores and afters, we _can't_ say whether the horse was terrified or ****ed.

Sh*tty training? Absolutely. The lady clearly lost her cool and you can never accomplish anything with a horse when you're emotional.

On a side note, I honestly can't fathom how so many people have trouble loading their horses in the trailer. Beyond the initial 1-2 loadings that a young horse may or may not have problems with, mine are more than happy to jump into any kind of trailer because they've figured out that the trailer = rest time.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Just thought you should know, the creator of the video also says barrel racing, reining, and anything competetive is abuse in her blogs. And has some very strong statements about the things listed above. So basically what I got out of her blog is any of us who ride our horses in public for more than just a leisurely ride are guilty of abuse.

Sounds to me like someone likes to make themselves out to be a hero any way they can. IMO


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Abuse? Eehhhhh. Depending on the horse's frame of mind, but since we weren't _there_ and didn't see the befores and afters, we _can't_ say whether the horse was terrified or ****ed.
> 
> Sh*tty training? Absolutely. The lady clearly lost her cool and you can never accomplish anything with a horse when you're emotional.
> 
> On a side note, I honestly can't fathom how so many people have trouble loading their horses in the trailer. Beyond the initial 1-2 loadings that a young horse may or may not have problems with, mine are more than happy to jump into any kind of trailer because they've figured out that the trailer = rest time.


On your trailer note: I can't figure that one out either. Longest I spent was over an hour, ONCE, after that it got quicker & quicker.

PATIENCE PEOPLE!!!


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## sirgalahadkem (Apr 24, 2012)

themacpack said:


> I have not seen one person say that what was done is/was "right"


If I lied and said it would that count? :rofl:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

So, in that update, the person taking the video was alone, so was afraid to intervene
because there was a group around the trainer also not intervening, so, by doing nothing, she made the assumption they supported what the trainer is doing? By not intervening herself to help is she not the same as them? What a crock. Just an excuse for not putting the big girl panties on, IMO.


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

greenbryerfarms said:


> Easter said:
> 
> 
> > Read the video description. I believe the lady lost her job over this video?..the NERVE the have to accuse of potentially 'attacking' the video-er? Its over. The video won.[/QUO
> ...


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

You either call the authorities contact someone at the fair ground
or offered to be part of the solution.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

If you really cared you would have intervened.
There no accusation in my earlier statement I would have detained anyone making a video of me. And reached a solution thru the Correct channels. Then sued the crap out of you.
This is Slander resulting in dismissal of a person's livilhood.
Definite case going..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

I submit to the The horse forumthat when people are recording others including their locations along with license plates without the person's approval this should be dumped from our message board. It only encourages this flurry of so called abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

> Personnel info of people,phone numbers, license plates should not be posted to the public.
> One day this will grt out of hand
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It has already gotten out of hand. I hope the 'trainer' sues the crap out of everyone that decided THEY could accuse, judge and cause great harm to someone that did not injure or damage a horse in any way.

This is just more fodder for the 'animal rights nuts' who have no other agenda at a higher priority than taking away people's rights to own and 'use' horses, dogs and any other animal. 

When you can take away a person's livelihood because of a lapse in judgement and a loss of their temper when no injury or actual damage resulted, the whole business of personal attacks on the internet has already gone too far..

Again, I hope she sues the crap out of anyone that arbitrarily labeled this 'abuse' in their opinion and put her personal information on the internet and caused her great monetary damages and personal harm.

It could also follow suit to sue all of the people that re-posted it and 'piled on' after the original posting.

JMHO
Cherie


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

It is not slander. Slander is the spoken word that is untrue. I believe the video speaks for itself. I don't know the law in the state it was taken in, or even what state it was in (WI?) but here, you can take anyone's video you want, as long as you are on public property (THEY don't even have to be on public property, I could stand in the street in front of your house and videotape you). And if the video were breaking laws, it would have been removed from Youtube (if the trainer tried to, which you can probably say she has... probably).

Unless you were there, you do not know the state of mind of the horse. Saying definitely "it wasn't afraid, it was stubborn" is absolutely idiotic. And just because you post a picture of another horse who was abused and starved, does not mean that something else is NOT abuse. Finding something worse, does not make what this person did "less bad", it is only ways to justify what they did.

The trainer made a poor choice. Most people have lost their temper at some point, this trainer made the poor choice to do so in public, and in a physical way to an animal... and now has to face those consequences. 

Also, the justification that the horse reared and flipped on somebody, so let's go out behind the trailer and who cares how we treat it? Irresponsible. Horses who rear, and flip, are almost always doing so in reaction to pain or fear, so let's go cause some more pain and fear. The best mirror for a trainer (or any rider) is their own horses.

This one, and those around her, are probably not liking what they see right now.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

waresbear said:


> That was a plastic bat, they don't hurt.


No......I had a trainer using one with a horse of mine.

I was shocked.

He came over and hit me in the head with it.

Then he asked, "now, are you hurt or, do I just have your attention"?

That being said.......the whole loading thing could have used cooler heads.


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

If it were me and I felt the need to video and publidh someoneelse's personnel info. I would include mine as well..
Stand up for what you believe.
No Big Girl Pantys On This One
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I hope my filly loads when it comes time to haul her home from expo this weekend! :wink:


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

My gelding was shown.....many times.

At the end of his showing days the problem was getting him OUT of the trailer.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> So, in that update, the person taking the video was alone, so was afraid to intervene
> because there was a group around the trainer also not intervening, so, by doing nothing, she made the assumption they supported what the trainer is doing? By not intervening herself to help is she not the same as them? What a crock. Just an excuse for not putting the big girl panties on, IMO.


I find the *update* intersting as well in that there was a "group" of people who apparently did not see "abuse" and only the ONE person, who videoed the situation, saw it as such. Sounds an awful lot like the general consensus wherever the situation is witnessed/discussed is the same...no one did anything to stop the "abuse" because there was no abuse


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

mls said:


> I hope my filly loads when it comes time to haul her home from expo this weekend! :wink:


All horses have "their days"....

Most people are pretty good at helping if you ask.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Abuse or not is objective, but I can say this...if she was using that bat on my horse, she'd be having it surgically removed from her rectum.


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

what I see isn't abuse but, someone that has little knowledge with a hint of stupidity.

I see different levels of stupidity here, you can only help them if they ask for it. A horses isn't going to learn or remember anything in that state. next time they are going to load they will have the same problem just the horse will have a bigger mental block to get through to load.

If I have a horse that pushes my button, I tie the horse up, I calm down and then when I'm in the right state of mind we try again. 

It's not a bad horse, it just had some very poor training. Posting the contact info of that person is going overboard.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

spookychick13 said:


> Abuse or not is objective, but I can say this...if she was using that bat on my horse, she'd be having it surgically removed from her rectum.


So do you ever use a whip or crop? You DO realize that they hurt more than the bat, right? THe issue was that she lost her temper, lost control, and was inappropriate, no matter what she was using.


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

NeuroticMare said:


> It is not slander. Slander is the spoken word that is untrue. I believe the video speaks for itself. I don't know the law in the state it was taken in, or even what state it was in (WI?) but here, you can take anyone's video you want, as long as you are on public property (THEY don't even have to be on public property, I could stand in the street in front of your house and videotape you). And if the video were breaking laws, it would have been removed from Youtube (if the trainer tried to, which you can probably say she has... probably).
> *Yes, you can video someone, does that make it right to do so...OPINIONS vary on this. *
> Unless you were there, you do not know the state of mind of the horse. Saying definitely "it wasn't afraid, it was stubborn" is absolutely idiotic. And just because you post a picture of another horse who was abused and starved, does not mean that something else is NOT abuse. Finding something worse, does not make what this person did "less bad", it is only ways to justify what they did.
> *I wasn't justifying anything. I agree it was BAD TRAINING. I do not, however, consider it abuse. I posted Myla's picture to show what my OPINION of abuse is. As an example of why I feel these types of things being called abuse wastes valuable time and resources that could be better spent on cases like Myla!
> ...


*The horse in that video appears nice and healthy.It also appears that it is **** poorly trained in my OPINION.

ETD: I left off the rest, the point was lost, so no sense in wasting more time......
*


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I saw poor judgement and a frustrated handler. Was it right? No. Was it abuse? No. Would I necessarily want her handling my horse? No. In my years with horses, I have seen some things that could truly be classified as abuse, this is far from it. 

I think it's rather sad that this woman has lost her livelihood over one mistake that happened to get caught on tape. How many of us are perfect and do every single thing right with our horses? I know that I sure as heck am not, I've made plenty of mistakes over the years. Making those mistakes and learning from them makes for better horsemen.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

def not abuse and sadly the wiffle ball bats won't hurt they get attention whether positive or negative... obvisously in this case it was used negatively but all i can say is this lady is lucky she hasn't met my horse... she would either be in a coma from my horse kicking the crud out of her or 6 ft under from my horse killing her ... neither would be the outcome she wanted..


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> So do you ever use a whip or crop? You DO realize that they hurt more than the bat, right? THe issue was that she lost her temper, lost control, and was inappropriate, no matter what she was using.


I don't need to use whips or crops on my horse, actually, but if she was using either of those things in that ****y little tantrum, it would be the same situation.
I don't care if she was hitting that horse with a limp noodle, she was out of line.
She made herself look ridiculous.

And anyone who doesn't know that whips and crops hurt more than a wiffle ball bat is an idiot, but thanks for pointing out the obvious.


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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

Never seen a wiffle ball bat used for training ha ha... oh wait that wasnt training that was a waste of time. Abuse no hardly at all. I mean that plastic wasnt hurting spit but she wasnt teaching a horse to trailer either. She was just getting mad at her horrid lack of knowledge of how to properly get a stubborn horse to load.


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> I saw poor judgement and a frustrated handler. Was it right? No. Was it abuse? No. Would I necessarily want her handling my horse? No. In my years with horses, I have seen some things that could truly be classified as abuse, this is far from it.
> 
> I think it's rather sad that this woman has lost her livelihood over one mistake that happened to get caught on tape. How many of us are perfect and do every single thing right with our horses? I know that I sure as heck am not, I've made plenty of mistakes over the years. Making those mistakes and learning from them makes for better horsemen.


It sucks, but you have to chalk it up as "one of those things". I got fired from a collection's agency because I had mono and fell asleep at my desk, once. It was a mistake, I was caught, and I lost my livelihood. And you know what? I found a better suited job for myself a few months down the road. Sometimes, things happen for a reason. If she really is as bad of a trainer as everyone seems to think (I was not commenting on whether the horse was abused, only on the comments of people saying it was or wasn't, I personally, do not think it is abused), perhaps it is time for a change.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Ripper said:


> Most people are pretty good at helping if you ask.


:rofl: I have opposite problem usually: people come and offer the help when I don't need it. I just politely turn them down.


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## Blondehorselover (Oct 20, 2011)

I was there but did not see this happening. Everyone in my area is appalled by it though. Whether it hurts the horse or not it is the WRONG way to do it. I believe this lady has been kicked off her association (or something like that), and the person filming did not intervene because she did not want a confrontation. They alerted the MWHF office but the trainer (Cyndi Plasch) was gone before they could get to her. I doubt she will be invited back.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

i read about 7 pages of craziness lol if you think THIS is abuse. once i let someone haul my mom's horse for us. not only did he lurch forward and make my mom's horse horse fall and bust her head, thus making her trailer sour, she wouldn't get off the trailer at the vets.. it took 4 grown men to pull her off after an hour of coaxing and gentleness. and then when it was time to load her, we ended up having to use a butt rope to coax her back on, after another hour of coaxing her. the man got tired of this and wanted to back the trailer up to a tree and tie the horse to a tree and then pull the trailer out from under her. he also then said thats how he taught them to load and unload. if they didn't load. he dropped the trailer. took a lunge line tied the horse to the truck, with the rope run through the trailer and drug the horse in with his truck. and if they didn't unload.. he pulled the trailer out from under them. he also has said he had a horse that wouldn't lead so he tied it to the truck and drug it down the road at 30 miles an hour, forcing it to run beside him. now THAT is abuse. this man is old and this is what he did in his day. he also does not and will NOT EVER haul my horse.

hitting a horse with a wiffle ball bat? if thats abuse then no one should ever whoop their children for back talking them or anything else. yes she lost her cool. yes she whipped her horse, but a horse kicking another horse hurts 10 times worse then a wiffle ball bat.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

spookychick13 said:


> I don't need to use whips or crops on my horse, actually, but if she was using either of those things in that ****y little tantrum, it would be the same situation.
> I don't care if she was hitting that horse with a limp noodle, she was out of line.
> She made herself look ridiculous.
> 
> And anyone who doesn't know that whips and crops hurt more than a wiffle ball bat is an idiot, but thanks for pointing out the obvious.




Everyone agrees she is out of line and lost control. The bat is not the issue, as you made it sound like in your former post that I was responding to.

I am happy that you have never had to use a crop or a whip, on your horse or any other. That is truly unusual.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

dirtroadangel said:


> If you really cared you would have intervened.
> There no accusation in my earlier statement I would have detained anyone making a video of me. And reached a solution thru the Correct channels. Then sued the crap out of you.
> This is Slander resulting in dismissal of a person's livilhood.
> Definite case going..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How would you have detained someone without using violence yourself?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Everyone agrees she is out of line and lost control. The bat is not the issue, as you made it sound like in your former post that I was responding to.
> 
> I am happy that you have never had to use a crop or a whip, on your horse or any other. That is truly unusual.


Just curious, where did you get 'any other' from this?


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## qh21797 (Feb 14, 2012)

This trainer is a Moron!! 
I dont see it as being abuse, but I do see it as being a Poor Trainer with no knowledge of how a horses mind really works!!

I would have walked by and called her an "f'ing idiot to her face, and enjoyed that as I laughed at her while I walked by!"...I would have loved that!!! hehehe

Would I have taped this and posted it...uhmm..no..would I have taped me calling her an "f'ing idiot, and laughing at her"...probably for all horsey people to get a laugh at

I would have never included someones personal information..that is just wrong:9


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Blondehorselover said:


> I was there but did not see this happening. Everyone in my area is appalled by it though. Whether it hurts the horse or not it is the WRONG way to do it. I believe this lady has been kicked off her association (or something like that), and the person filming did not intervene because she did not want a confrontation. They alerted the MWHF office but the trainer (Cyndi Plasch) was gone before they could get to her. I doubt she will be invited back.


I know you are just repeating what you heard, but the girl who taped this video is full of sh!t if she said she didn't want to intervene for fear of a confrontation. Watch the last few seconds of the video....she asks the trainer who she is, where she is from and then tells the trainer she is taping her. And is quite bitchy about it while asking. To me that is asking for a confrontation...then runs the long way around another trailer to get the make of the truck, trailer and plate number...

If that was me I would have a hard time not showing that gal taping what real abuse is by beating the crap out of her in the parking lot. I know that would only make it worse.....but it would make me feel better...tee he. But then again I wouldn't be trying to load my horse with a wiffle bat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

spookychick13 said:


> Just curious, where did you get 'any other' from this?


I naver have had to use a whip either and itrain a lot of horses..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

greenbryerfarms said:


> I naver have had to use a whip either and itrain a lot of horses..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok-so read your signature. Another perfect person.:?


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## Adam (Feb 6, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I know you are just repeating what you heard, but the girl who taped this video is full of sh!t if she said she didn't want to intervene for fear of a confrontation. Watch the last few seconds of the video....she asks the trainer who she is, where she is from and then tells the trainer she is taping her. And is quite bitchy about it while asking. To me that is asking for a confrontation...then runs the long way around another trailer to get the make of the truck, trailer and plate number...
> 
> If that was me I would have a hard time not showing that gal taping what real abuse is by beating the crap out of her in the parking lot. I know that would only make it worse.....but it would make me feel better...tee he. But then again I wouldn't be trying to load my horse with a wiffle bat.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm trying to imagine how I would react if some moron came up to me after a show and said they recorded some thing I did that they didn't like, then progressed to record details like my license number or truck.... My family is almost always with me at these shows, and I am VERY defensive of my family. I would probably take this as an assault on their well being, I am ex-military, and I can freaking guarantee you they will be surgically removing an i-phone from someone's @ss. 
If I do something you don't like, yeah, tape it, get my name or back number if you can, submit it to the NRHA or whatever org I'm showing with, and let them deal with me. Do NOT endanger my family with a video that may send wacos to my front door. 
_Must go back to happy place, must go back to happy place.... LOL_


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> Everyone agrees she is out of line and lost control. The bat is not the issue, as you made it sound like in your former post that I was responding to.
> 
> *I am happy that you have never had to use a crop or a whip, on your horse or any other. That is truly unusual*.


Not hard at all - you just have to always do what the horse wants


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

greenbryerfarms said:


> I naver have had to use a whip either and itrain a lot of horses..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well I sure have used a whip.

I always had one in the middle of my round pen to snap at the horse to keep them moving.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

The thing that bothered me is that there was malice in the actions of the girl and that she had lost her temper, never a successful approach for training. If a bat is the only tool available at the time, there are other ways that it could have been used, in a cool, calm, collected manner. Would have been far more effective too.

Don't get me wrong, what I saw disturbed me, but I don't think it constitutes abuse. Abuse is defined as intentionally inflicting pain (which she did) beyond necessity for normal dicipline (herein lies the possiblity for interpretation).


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

themacpack said:


> Not hard at all - you just have to always do what the horse wants


Ahhhh..... That is my mistake.:wink:


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

greenbryerfarms said:


> I naver have had to use a whip either and itrain a lot of horses..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmm - I seem to recall mention of use of a whip and using "a lot of force" in a recent post regarding lunging.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

themacpack said:


> Curious, if you stopped coming to this forum how did you come to be posting in this thread????




I went to the Midwest Horse Fair, and a friend who still posts here showed me this thread, asking if I had seen the lady loading the horse.

Sated?

I love how you assume I always do what my horse wants. Curious; How did you come to THAT conclusion?


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

MOD NOTE - It is perfectly fine to disagree, however, it is not fine to take it to a personal level and name calling. Please refrain from doing so.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

^^ What does "sated" mean?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> ^^ What does "sated" mean?


Let me google that for you


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

Ripper said:


> Well I sure have used a whip.
> 
> I always had one in the middle of my round pen to snap at the horse to keep them moving.


When my Gus got alil barn sour after someone else had ridden him I brought a training whip. He straighten right out. Didn't really use it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

NeuroticMare said:


> It is not slander. Slander is the spoken word that is untrue. I believe the video speaks for itself. I don't know the law in the state it was taken in, or even what state it was in (WI?) but here, you can take anyone's video you want, as long as you are on public property (THEY don't even have to be on public property, I could stand in the street in front of your house and videotape you). And if the video were breaking laws, it would have been removed from Youtube (if the trainer tried to, which you can probably say she has... probably).
> 
> Unless you were there, you do not know the state of mind of the horse. Saying definitely "it wasn't afraid, it was stubborn" is absolutely idiotic. And just because you post a picture of another horse who was abused and starved, does not mean that something else is NOT abuse. Finding something worse, does not make what this person did "less bad", it is only ways to justify what they did.
> 
> ...


There are 2 kinds of slander theres verbal but also Libel where one writes tapes or records one with intent to harm. The one who took this video tape should be held liable as much as the trainer and If I was the trainer I would sue the one video taping and claiming ABUSE. 
If I was at that show and saw what I saw I would of stepped up to the lady and say okay wait lets take a breath this isnt working. let the horse and trainer calm down and then apraoch it differently. ya maybe the trainer would snap at you But she is frustrated probably tired and with a bunch a kids already stressed to the max. Someone needed to step up and say BREAK!! step back and breath a bit. But no No one did a thing except video and accuse to me thats PATHETIC period.
TRR


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## dirtroadangel (Jan 24, 2012)

natisha said:


> How would you have detained someone without using violence yourself?


Trust me..... I would....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

spookychick13 said:


> Let me google that for you


Sorry if I thought maybe you would be civil. My mistake. I can handle the google myself. Thanks.

And-actually-no-not "sated". The question referred to posting, not reading. THanks for asking.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I have to say, I've laughed a good bit reading through this thread. Come on, the "trainer" acted completely ridiculous, but was that abuse? No.. 

Does a wiffle ball bat hurt worse than a crop or whip. Hell yes! I've been hit with both. That horse is a lot bigger than me and if the wiffle ball bat didn't hurt me it sure didn't hurt the horse. I seriously doubt he is forever scarred and is going to have a complete melt down. In this situation the "trainer"s rep has been ruined, she's lost business, the owners will now take their horses and find another trainer. ONE incident with a wiffle ball bat is not going to tarnish the horse's whole out look on life.. My mare was in a trailer accident when she was younger, they were trying to force her on a trailer and she came off really quickly. It tore the skin off of her hind legs. From her hooves to her knee. She's scarred up physically but she loads on a trailer just fine and doesn't have any issues. I think Nikki went through a heck of a lot worse incident than that horse did being hit with that bat and with working with her she has completely gotten over it. 

Any horse can overcome a bad incident if the owner works with their horse and doesn't over react to the whole situation. Solution = Fire trainer, work with your own horse! It's that easy..

I forgot, all horses are supposed to load this willingly..






I personally have done a good bit worse on a stud pony (13hh) that bruised my ribs kicking me twice, had a serious problem with running all over people, went through fences, bit, pawed, just had HORRIBLE manners and no amount of sweet and easy training could fix it..But the wooden handle of a garden hoe sure did. I knocked the snot out of that pony after he kicked me and he never kicked again. Problem solved..I had to buy a new hoe because I broke the wooden handle, but I gladly paid for it..and that pony now has great manners. 

I will admit to having done worse.


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## Rascaholic (Oct 4, 2010)

DrumRunner said:


> I will admit to having done worse.


:wink: better not admit anything, you'll be on Youtube next :razz:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Rascaholic said:


> :wink: better not admit anything, you'll be on Youtube next :razz:


Laugh..Anyone is free to search my YouTube..I'm a horrible person! I don't let stud ponies run all over me! For shame!!! :wink:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

This is the pony after his attitude adjustment..Still a stud.. We gelded him a few weeks later and sold him to a little girl who is doing fantastic on him..From barrels to jumping. 

SOLD! Stewart - YouTube


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

*Mod Note* Please keep this thread on topic or it will be closed.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Drumrunner, now you know to use a plastic bat instead of a garden hoe.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Laugh! I do now!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

DrumRunner;1471506..
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7IceNyeF8g" said:


> Amber and Papa Hickory Doc - 2-8-2012 - YouTube[/URL]
> 
> 
> Ie.


one big difference here is that this horse is loading through a very widely open door. the one in question was being asked to load through a narrow one. I realize that it should know how to do this, but I wonder if they should not have openned the other door and see if this might not make the horse more relaxed and willing.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> one big difference here is that this horse is loading through a very widely open door. the one in question was being asked to load through a narrow one. I realize that it should know how to do this, but I wonder if they should not have openned the other door and see if this might not make the horse more relaxed and willing.


I agree, if a horse is having loading issues the trainer and owner should work on that at home, not at a show. It would have probably been a better situation if she had opened the other door, the horse wouldn't feel as though it was going into a tiny space. I would also try loading the horse in something more of a stock trailer. Bigger door, open space, more light, the horse would be able to see that it's not going to hurt him and he's going to fit in the trailer..It didn't help that the trainer got forceful and made the situation even worse. Especially if they knew that the horse had loading issues, why try to get it to load in a slant load if you know that it's going to be an issue..


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> one big difference here is that this horse is loading through a very widely open door. the one in question was being asked to load through a narrow one. I realize that it should know how to do this, but I wonder if they should not have openned the other door and see if this might not make the horse more relaxed and willing.


My guess is there was already a horse loaded on the left side as they were loading this one on the right (I think).


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I thought that might be the case, but couldn't they still open the door? is there not a butt bar? Or, in the worst case, unload that horse, then load this one, then reload.

I mean, it doesn't take care of the problem, but as Drum said, such training should take place slow and easy at home.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Horses are just flaky at times.

I have had some the loaded perfect...9 times out of 10.

Over the years we found one that did not like to load from the cement to the trailer. Once I made the connection, he was fine.

I hauled mostly foals so, if we had to we could just more or, less lift them in. One foot at a time.

I would never say my horse loads perfect.

As soon as you say that....it is just a matter of time.:lol::lol::lol:


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

natisha said:


> My guess is there was already a horse loaded on the left side as they were loading this one on the right (I think).


On most of the slant load trailers I've ever used or been around that other door is to a tack area. But even having that door open also the horse can see that it's not a wall there, they should load easier. I can't be sure for that one trailer, but all that I've been around have that as a tack area.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> On most of the slant load trailers I've ever used or been around that other door is to a tack area. But even having that door open also the horse can see that it's not a wall there, they should load easier. I can't be sure for that one trailer, but all that I've been around have that as a tack area.


That makes sense. I didn't know it was a slant load. It looked like a straight load from the way the rope was coming from the inside.


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

themacpack said:


> Hmmm - I seem to recall mention of use of a whip and using "a lot of force" in a recent post regarding lunging.


Ihavent ever had to hit him with it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

This is JMO on the loading of the horse.

If you will watch again see how one person is almost at the horse's head waving their arms in the air. That alone would spook the horse.

Their is to much confusion.

When loading a horse only ONE person talks....no clucking or, any sound from others.

If someone is in the trailer, just keep a steady grip, no pulling and be flexible.

If that does not work...walk the horse away from the trailer and try again in a few minutes.

If you are still not getting the horse loaded...go to two people locking arms but, after letting the horse know they are behind them....these people do not make noise.

Next I would unload the first horse and try loading the problem horse on the other side.

The key is...don't create anxiety for the horses.

Over the years I have noticed my biggest problem came when I was running late.


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

OMG! when taking my horse home from the trainers he acted up and didnt want to go in the trailer. he never once hit my horse with anything and asked him never made him do a thing! i would have walked my horse home then have someone hit my horse.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

natisha said:


> That makes sense. I didn't know it was a slant load. It looked like a straight load from the way the rope was coming from the inside.


I'm thinking someone was in the trailer and pulling on the horse or I've seen people run a lunge line through the window and be pulling from the other side of the trailer. That was a mess.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

HarleyWood said:


> OMG! when taking my horse home from the trainers he acted up and didnt want to go in the trailer. he never once hit my horse with anything and asked him never made him do a thing! i would have walked my horse home then have someone hit my horse.


The horse was not hurt......but, the hitting was just escalating the situation.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I think the left side might be a tack room?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Same here Spooky..


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

I have asked the mods to delete this yes iam the poster yes I did put abuse in thetitle only because that wasthe videos name it was supposedto be about bad training and I don't feel its going in the correct way.. Hopefuly the thread will be gone by tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

greenbryerfarms said:


> I have asked the mods to delete this yes iam the poster yes I did put abuse in thetitle only because that wasthe videos name it was supposedto be about bad training and I don't feel its going in the correct way.. Hopefuly the thread will be gone by tomorrow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is kind of silly, the discussion is back on topic.

This video is relevant to the horse community and it's all over the internet.


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

I might be behind on post. I'm on my phone haven't quite figured it out on here. I'm glad its back on track..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Stupid is as stupid does!:lol:
This must have been horribly embarrassing for the lady trainer.
Please refer to my signature!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Yeah, the thread is back on topic now..


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Has anyone looked at the YouTube posters website, especially her blogs?? Very interesting. I guess I abused my horse, I used to barrel race and show. And I would like to abuse my horse, since I would really like to get into reining.

Is there a trainer for that?


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

busysmurf said:


> Has anyone looked at the YouTube posters website, especially her blogs?? Very interesting. I guess I abused my horse, I used to barrel race and show. And I would like to abuse my horse, since I would really like to get into reining.
> 
> Is there a trainer for that?


Reining? Of course! Where are you located?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

My little girl and I had a good laugh at the people waving their arms around, it's like a strange bird dance....LOL
Are they trying to fly away?


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

greenbryerfarms said:


> Reining? Of course! Where are you located?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


An hour north of Milwaukee. 
But I should probably wait until the YouTube poster is around, I want to prove reining is abusive, ROFL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenbryerfarms (Apr 9, 2012)

busysmurf said:


> An hour north of Milwaukee.
> But I should probably wait until the YouTube poster is around, I want to prove reining is abusive, ROFL
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


why even talk to horse people if barrel racing ect is abusive? most horses love there sport or we just dont show them because its just not going to get us anywhere...


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Susan Crumrine said:


> My little girl and I had a good laugh at the people waving their arms around, it's like a strange bird dance....LOL
> Are they trying to fly away?


BINGO....If I were the horse I would have refused too.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

greenbryerfarms said:


> why even talk to horse people if barrel racing ect is abusive? most horses love there sport or we just dont show them because its just not going to get us anywhere...


I know, Odie LOVED chasing cans! It's hard to remind him can't any more:'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mare86 (Apr 27, 2012)

This was NOT abuse, she tried SEVERAL other ways of getting this horse on the trailer. There was several times the horse did load only to bolt right back out almost pinning another person in the trailer. How DARE ANYONE to criticize any person before getting THE WHOLE TRUTH. The person that taped this DIDN'T TAPE THE WHOLE THING. She only taped parts of it to make it look worse. This horse was NOT her horse. Cyndi's horses loaded right into the trailer with NO problems. There was NO taping of CYNDI'S horses being loaded and they ALL loaded just fine. I know Cyndi, I have seen her train horses and NOT ONCE has she abused an horse IN ANY WAY. 

This is just one way of ONE person (and now others) trying to destroy the life of a GOOD HORSE TRAINER. Like it or not Cyndi IS A GOOD HORSE TRAINER. 

This horse was acting up at the fair and was pulled from the show BEFORE THIS HAPPENED. Did any one tape that, NO. Did anyone tape the horse acting up before the trailering, NO. Did any one ask why the horse was pulled from the last day of showing, NO. You all just started to judge and ridicule. Saying this horse should not have been at the show. NO ONE can tell when a horse is going to act up, NO ONE.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

mare86 said:


> This was NOT abuse, she tried SEVERAL other ways of getting this horse on the trailer. There was several times the horse did load only to bolt right back out almost pinning another person in the trailer. How DARE ANYONE to criticize any person before getting THE WHOLE TRUTH. The person that taped this DIDN'T TAPE THE WHOLE THING. She only taped parts of it to make it look worse. This horse was NOT her horse. Cyndi's horses loaded right into the trailer with NO problems. There was NO taping of CYNDI'S horses being loaded and they ALL loaded just fine. I know Cyndi, I have seen her train horses and NOT ONCE has she abused an horse IN ANY WAY.
> 
> This is just one way of ONE person (and now others) trying to destroy the life of a GOOD HORSE TRAINER. Like it or not Cyndi IS A GOOD HORSE TRAINER.
> 
> This horse was acting up at the fair and was pulled from the show BEFORE THIS HAPPENED. Did any one tape that, NO. Did anyone tape the horse acting up before the trailering, NO. Did any one ask why the horse was pulled from the last day of showing, NO. You all just started to judge and ridicule. Saying this horse should not have been at the show. NO ONE can tell when a horse is going to act up, NO ONE.


Did you even read through the responses in this thread? 
Most everyone here agrees this was not abuse. 
Also there is another thread on this forum about how videos for horse "abuse" are running rampant on YouTube. When in actually "abuse" is subjective, and can be taken out of context when the whole situation is unknown.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

We only have the video to view, and on the video the trainer did lose her temper. I don't necessarily think it's abuse, but there are better ways of handling this situation.
God knows I have my less than stellar moments. Thankfully no one is there with a camera to capture them for all the world to see. Still, I know when I do something wrong and try to learn from it.
It's unfortunate that a few minutes of video taken out of context could and will reflect badly on her career, but that's the world we live in.


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

mare86 said:


> This was NOT abuse, she tried SEVERAL other ways of getting this horse on the trailer. There was several times the horse did load only to bolt right back out almost pinning another person in the trailer. How DARE ANYONE to criticize any person before getting THE WHOLE TRUTH. The person that taped this DIDN'T TAPE THE WHOLE THING. She only taped parts of it to make it look worse. This horse was NOT her horse. Cyndi's horses loaded right into the trailer with NO problems. There was NO taping of CYNDI'S horses being loaded and they ALL loaded just fine. I know Cyndi, I have seen her train horses and NOT ONCE has she abused an horse IN ANY WAY.
> 
> This is just one way of ONE person (and now others) trying to destroy the life of a GOOD HORSE TRAINER. Like it or not Cyndi IS A GOOD HORSE TRAINER.
> 
> This horse was acting up at the fair and was pulled from the show BEFORE THIS HAPPENED. Did any one tape that, NO. Did anyone tape the horse acting up before the trailering, NO. Did any one ask why the horse was pulled from the last day of showing, NO. You all just started to judge and ridicule. Saying this horse should not have been at the show. NO ONE can tell when a horse is going to act up, NO ONE.


she clearly got angry. not good for training horses. you can't defend that unfortunately.


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

Why do people only half read posts and when they do they miscomprehend what was said. Its like go back and read slower real slow so your brain keeps up with your eyes. 
I even said Trainer has a good law suit if she goes after the one who video taped it claiming abuse when in fact it WASNT see I said wasnt. lol

TRR


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Maybe we should whiffle bat all of PETA people that are "oh ma God! She done hurt da pretty poneh!! He is now going to develop life long issues and become untrainable! He should be sent to Pat and Linda, their amazing natural horsemanship could fix him! I mean, have you seen the way the problem horses come around with them! Dey are uhhmazing! The horse may trust people again if he is fed cookies and given his space.."

In all seriousness, what's done is done..everyone has their own opinion..With a handful of good trailering experiences he should be fine, the wiffle ball bat doesn't do near as much damage as a lunge whip or crop in the wrong hands.. People should read all of the posts before getting their panties in a knot and consider the whole situation..


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## BooBear (Mar 23, 2012)

"Recently, a disturbing video was posted on the Internet and shared with the Midwest Horse Fair® office. The video depicts a horse being loaded onto a trailer in a very aggressive manner, including the trainer striking the horse multiple times with what appears to be a hollow plastic bat. 

The Midwest Horse Fair®’s first priority each year is to put on an event that highlights the region’s rich equine history and promotes safe, responsible training and care for all horses. The Midwest Horse Fair® does not condone the conduct shown in the video in any way. 

We urge anyone who witnesses unsafe or improper treatment of any horse at the Midwest Horse Fair® to immediately alert staff and security on the grounds. We fully investigate all claims of abuse at the Fair, including dispatching a licensed veterinarian to check on the animal and provide any necessary treatment. Our team will follow up on all reports until we are satisfied that the horse is being properly treated. 

Unfortunately, the situation depicted on the video arose as the trainer was leaving the grounds, and our staff was not alerted in time to remedy the situation. The Midwest Horse Fair® is working with the authorities and eye witnesses to investigate the identity of the person in the video and will take appropriate action once her identity is confirmed. 

This year's fair was another huge success thanks to the thousands of cooperative, compassionate horse owners and enthusiasts who make the trip every year. We thank each and every one of you for helping to make the Midwest Horse Fair® a safe, fun, and successful event!"

^Posted on the MHF's Facebook.


As someone who went to the Midwest Horse Fair this year, I'll attest to the fact that they really do seem to have staff everywhere. If the person video taping REALLY thought this horse was in danger, you would think they'd be more concerned with finding a staff member around to intervene than to sit back and record it for Youtube. If it _WAS_ abuse, what good would it be to sit back and watch it happen? What's done would be done. If in a position to intervene, why wouldn't they? That's what confuses me about the whole situation. I left on the second day, but if I saw something I _truly_ thought was abusive (not that I think this was- I just wouldn't use this method myself), I wouldn't have taped it instead of getting proper authorities...


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> the wiffle ball bat doesn't do near as much damage as a lunge whip or crop in the wrong hands..


or carrot stick. don't forget carrot sticks.


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## Lunarflowermaiden (Aug 17, 2010)

christopher said:


> or carrot stick. don't forget carrot sticks.


Honestly I'd say the carrot stick would probably be worse than a wiffle bat.

Wiffle bat might sting more, but you could leave a nice bruise with a carrot stick.


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## Lunarflowermaiden (Aug 17, 2010)

busysmurf said:


> Has anyone looked at the YouTube posters website, especially her blogs?? Very interesting. I guess I abused my horse, I used to barrel race and show. And I would like to abuse my horse, since I would really like to get into reining.
> 
> Is there a trainer for that?


Where did you find the links to her blog? 

The youtube video has been pulled, so I am not sure how to find them.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

christopher said:


> or carrot stick. don't forget carrot sticks.


Of course their carrot stick..


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Reactionary responses by people who know little about anything concerning horses or training are now in the 'driver's seat' and are being set up by ignorant horse lovers who pander to the radical animal rights groups (like PETA and HSUS). When we (as horse owners) play into the hands of the animal rights radicals, we are insuring our own destruction. We are insuring that in the near future these radicals will use our 'abuse declarations' to try to stop us from showing and using our own horses.

As someone has said -- 'The girl who took this video supposedly thinks barrel racing and reining are abusive. Why would anyone with a horse play into the hands of animal rights radicals that want to stop all horse and pet ownership and usage?

We recently had an animal rights nut take videos at the local FFA-4H livestock show and then claim that the show promoted animal abuse and should be stopped because the participants were 'allowed' to use severe, cruel 'chains' on the show-halters on the steers and heifers. Everyone better hope they never get caught on film with a whip or spurs or some other aid and then be accused of using cruel equipment.


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

I thought of this thread this morning when loading my horse (the original Neurotic Mare™) in our new trailer. She has been in it once before, but is still getting used to the idea of a ramp.

She had a little hiccup loading, very unlike her, but knowing how she is we just took a minute to breathe and think about it, then I used a crop (oh noes!) that I keep in my trailer, it is my XC crop and has a long handle and a wide flap at the bottom. I picked it up and mare started to shake (also part of being a Neurotic Mare!) and all it took was some kind words and showing it to her and she took the first step onto the ramp, and then walked right on. Loading again after our lesson she hopped right in. Our old trailer did not have a ramp, but I figured she would like it once she got used to it, and she does 

It actually takes LESS time to take time, than if you try to rush and get the horse all frazzled. At least, with mine


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Ripper said:


> All horses have "their days"....
> 
> Most people are pretty good at helping if you ask.


Moments - yes. Ours all load in too much of a hurry. I had horses screaming at me when I hooked up the trailer yesterday to haul our filly home. They love going places!

Just to let everyone know - she popped right in last night.

Her fourth time ever being hauled anywhere.


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