# (More) Jumping and Flat Critique



## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

Your leg looks really good! Heel down nice and flexed. *Thumbs up* I would try closing my hip angle that will help with the jumping ahead. And try keeping your hands on his neck until you here his back feet go *thuh-thump!* You look like a natural for equitation so watch the medal finals like this person shes great :YouTube - eqrider926's Channel
For flat sitting a more into your saddle. 
Your horse seems kinda stiff and hyped up so you might try softening his mouth getting him to yield to your aids.
You are doing very well with posture. I'd say its time to push things up a level  try riding without stirrups.
Good luck!


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## EternalSun (Mar 29, 2009)

a TB/mini cross?


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

ya, lol  it's a kind of strange mix, isn't it? he's a great horse tho


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

btw thanks for the advice trissacar, i'll use it this saturday when i ride.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

anrz said:


> btw thanks for the advice trissacar, i'll use it this saturday when i ride.


Your welcome! Happy trails!


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

anrz said:


> btw thanks for the advice trissacar, i'll use it this saturday when i ride.


Tell me how it goes!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

You look great in this picture. 

Your leg is exactly where it should be, your heels are being permitted to do their job, and your hip angle IS EXACTLY where it should be. You ALWAYS allow your horse to close the angle for you, you never do that for your horse. ALLOW your horse to do his job - and here, that is exactly what you are doing.

Your seat is exactly where it should be, you've allowed your horse to lift you out of your tack, instead of you thrusting yourself forward. Your seat has a great space from your saddle, and your seat is dead center over your saddle. Not too far back, not too far forward.

Your release needs work though.

Your back, you've allowed it to hollow, you need to straigten it. Your shoulders are nice and I love that you are looking up.










This picture here - you've really jumped ahead. See how much space is between your saddle and your seat? You've lurched ahead - and the reason being, is that you've anticipated the fence.

You do NOT stop jumping ahead by closing your hip angle - you stop jumping ahead by riding your horse, not the fence.

Your legs are good here. They are at the girth, exactly where you want them. Your heels are being permitted to do their job - what you've done here, is ridden the fence. You anticipated it - you rode the fence, not your horse. So, by not allowing your horse to do his job - you tried to do it for him.

You need to focus on your horses rhythm, you need to focus on where you are on your horse - focus on the more important factor in this equation..which is your horse. 

Stop focusing on the fence - you know it is there, your horse knows it is there - so why stare at it? Why pay any attention to it? No need to. Trust your horse, allow him to do his job. Sit, wait, ride his rhythm - not the fence.

You don't need to do stirrupless work - your legs are solid as it is. Stirrupless work is meant for riders who have lack of security in their lower leg - you have this. You need to work on focusing on what is under you, not infront of you.

I highly recommend you look at the thread started by myself, titled Jumping Form - there is a picture of a rider in there that one does not want to become. 

Remember - your horse closes the angle. Your horse lifts you out of your tack. Your horse is the one who gets you over the fence - your job, is to get your horse to the base of the fence in a rhythmic, strait, fluid movement.

Allow your horse to do his job.


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

MIEventer- thank you so much for the advice- ya, now that I think about it I do think about the fences a lot. thank you again for the critique!


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> You look great in this picture.
> 
> Your leg is exactly where it should be, your heels are being permitted to do their job, and your hip angle IS EXACTLY where it should be. You ALWAYS allow your horse to close the angle for you, you never do that for your horse. ALLOW your horse to do his job - and here, that is exactly what you are doing.
> 
> ...


I feel like I've just been slapped.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

Ich werde sehr beleidigt.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Don't take it personally - nothing was meant by it.

But please expalin - how does collapsing your upper body do anything to prevent a rider from jumping ahead?


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> Don't take it personally - nothing was meant by it.
> 
> But please expalin - how does collapsing your upper body do anything to prevent a rider from jumping ahead?


I didn't save collapsing your body I said closing the hip angle. Hip angle highlighted in green. Some people need to consciously think about closing the hip angle it helps when someone like is throwing their body forward it was very helpful to me. 
The two do not have to coincide.
I try(the key word being try lol) not to directly contradict something someone has said no matter how wrong I think they are.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Both pictures of the jumping - riders are jumping ahead. 

The only way to stop a rider form jumping ahead - is stop anticipating the fence.

Lune Line Work - Reinless.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> Both pictures of the jumping - riders are jumping ahead.
> 
> The only way to stop a rider form jumping ahead - is stop anticipating the fence.
> 
> Lune Line Work - Reinless.


I'll have to tell Beezie you said that.
We'll agree to disagree and eventers jump alot differently then hunter/jumper/equitation riders.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Functional Form is Functional Form - regardless of what type of fence you are going over.

Everything has to come together, to solidify the riders position in the saddle. One link in the chain is effected, so are all the rest. 

Solidifying lower leg, sitting and waiting for horses motion to lift you out of your tack, riding your horse and not the fence. Remaining over the center of your horses gravity - stops a rider from jumping ahead.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

The horse's center of gravity is here in the pick dot. The majority of weight should be right on target the upper body should be supported by a crest release or if advanced enough the automatic release.
I will post the black & white model.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

The seat is way to far out of the tack, crotch over pommel. To me, that's jumping ahead. Could be the thrust of the horse, but the rider should be lower to tack and seat pushed back over the center of the saddle. 

Leg is solid. 

This rider should be doing the automatic release.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

Trissacar said:


> The horse's center of gravity is here in the pick dot. The majority of weight should be right on target the upper body should be supported by a crest release or if advanced enough the automatic release.
> I will post the black & white model.


Here is the b&w.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> The seat is way to far out of the tack, crotch over pommel. To me, that's jumping ahead. Could be the thrust of the horse, but the rider should be lower to tack and seat pushed back over the center of the saddle.
> 
> Leg is solid.
> 
> This rider should be doing the automatic release.


I don't see it. But I'll tell her what you think she should be doin.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

LOL - I just read that your Poneh is a TB/Mini Cross.

What the??? What a weird and strange mix. Who'da thunk to breed those two together. I sure hope the Stallion was the Mini! HA HA!


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

just curious, what's wrong with disagreeing with someone's post? Isn't a forum all about sharing opinions and information? As long as it's done in a respectful manner, why not?

As far as jumping ahead goes... I'm wondering if perhaps you both (MIEventer and trissacar) are more on the same page then you'd think. Jumping ahead happens when you are trying to jump for the horse- hurling your body forward, getting your crotch above the pommel, butt too high out of the saddle, etc. In the picture MIEventer pointed out, yes, this rider is jumping ahead. Had she just relaxed her hip and let her hip angle close (by allowing her horse to jump up to her, not throwing her body down at her horse), there's a much better chance she would have stayed with her horse a little better. However, this is acheived by riding the horse, not the jump as was mentioned and I personally wouldn't advise someone to close their hip angle to avoid jumping ahead. Mainly because I think the majority of people who jump ahead do it because they're so concerned about the distance (one, two, three, JUMP) instead of being still and allowing your horse to jump and moving with him.

As far as the critique goes, I'd have to ditto everything MIEventer said! She's usually right on! One thing I'd add is to watch the placement of your stirrup. You want it across the ball of your foot with it angled slightly out -with the side closest to your pinky toe more forward. In a few of the pictures they're a little too far back, which will affect the depth and flexibility of your ankle/heel.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

MIEventer said:


> I sure hope the Stallion was the Mini! HA HA!



but.... (not sure how to word it and keep it PG) but... how?  I mean, unless it was a deliberate breeding (which I think is just an odd combination) and there was some "assistance"... 

anywho, very cute horse for such a strange combination!


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## Equuestriaan (Nov 5, 2008)

I see two riders (the ones jumping) that are way ahead of the motion, jumping up their horses' necks. Trissacar, I think it would greatly benefit from reading MIEventer's thread, Form Over Fences, which explains the difference between functional form over fences, and "posing," which is what I see above, especially in the second image.

Now. For the one who asked for the critique. I love your form here:










Your hands are closed, floating above the mane, and not pulling on the mouth. Your back is less hollow here than in the other pictures, but your shoulders could come back a bit.

I agree with MIEventer that here, your seat, leg, and upper body are right where they need to be:










The only thing that bothers me is that in the jumping pictures, your back is so hollow and arched! Is that really comfortable? Lol! Work on straightening up that back because it looks quite stiff and rather painful!


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

upnover said:


> just curious, what's wrong with disagreeing with someone's post? Isn't a forum all about sharing opinions and information? As long as it's done in a respectful manner, why not?
> 
> As far as jumping ahead goes... I'm wondering if perhaps you both (MIEventer and trissacar) are more on the same page then you'd think. Jumping ahead happens when you are trying to jump for the horse- hurling your body forward, getting your crotch above the pommel, butt too high out of the saddle, etc. In the picture MIEventer pointed out, yes, this rider is jumping ahead. Had she just relaxed her hip and let her hip angle close (by allowing her horse to jump up to her, not throwing her body down at her horse), there's a much better chance she would have stayed with her horse a little better. However, this is acheived by riding the horse, not the jump as was mentioned and I personally wouldn't advise someone to close their hip angle to avoid jumping ahead. Mainly because I think the majority of people who jump ahead do it because they're so concerned about the distance (one, two, three, JUMP) instead of being still and allowing your horse to jump and moving with him.
> 
> As far as the critique goes, I'd have to ditto everything MIEventer said! She's usually right on! One thing I'd add is to watch the placement of your stirrup. You want it across the ball of your foot with it angled slightly out -with the side closest to your pinky toe more forward. In a few of the pictures they're a little too far back, which will affect the depth and flexibility of your ankle/heel.


I don't have a problem with disagreements I have a problem with the way she said it. And I'm sorry I'm going to listen to Beezie over someone I don't know.
Maybe we are on the same page. IDK. But I'm not going to have someone blatantly say "Oh don't listen to her." 
I like the O'Conners but most of eventers yank on their horses mouths with their jumping position.
I'm just venting a little no one get angry.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

Equuestriaan said:


> I see two riders (the ones jumping) that are way ahead of the motion, jumping up their horses' necks. Trissacar, I think it would greatly benefit from reading MIEventer's thread, Form Over Fences, which explains the difference between functional form over fences, and "posing," which is what I see above, especially in the second image.
> 
> Now. For the one who asked for the critique. I love your form here:
> 
> ...


I disagree BZ is in the center of the horse's gravity in my opinion.


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## Equuestriaan (Nov 5, 2008)

Trissacar said:


> I don't have a problem with disagreements I have a problem with the way she said it. And I'm sorry I'm going to listen to Beezie over someone I don't know.
> Maybe we are on the same page. IDK. But I'm not going to have someone blatantly say "Oh don't listen to her."
> I like the O'Conners but most of eventers yank on their horses mouths with their jumping position.
> I'm just venting a little no one get angry.


Omg, in that picture you posted -- I met her there too!!! Horsatack, right?


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## madisonfriday (Apr 3, 2009)

Trissacar said:


> I don't have a problem with disagreements I have a problem with the way she said it. And I'm sorry I'm going to listen to Beezie over someone I don't know.
> Maybe we are on the same page. IDK. But I'm not going to have someone blatantly say "Oh don't listen to her."
> I like the O'Conners but most of eventers yank on their horses mouths with their jumping position.
> I'm just venting a little no one get angry.


I HAVE THAT SHIRT! lol but Cute horse!.


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

lol! ya thumper's a sweetheart and very cute


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

thanks for the advice everyone! I really appreciate it.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

Equuestriaan said:


> Omg, in that picture you posted -- I met her there too!!! Horsatack, right?


My trainer was trained by her and got her first horse from John. I'm hoping to see her at HITS.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

madisonfriday said:


> I HAVE THAT SHIRT! lol but Cute horse!.


_MY_ shirt???


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

Trissacar said:


> My trainer was trained by her and got her first horse from John. I'm hoping to see her at HITS.


I showed John a pic of Markie and he said "OMG!!! It _DOES_ look like Judgment!!!"
Unfortunately they live all the way up in Saugerties. :-(. And she had Authentic on vacation for a while so I don't get to see her at shows. They are really fun to hang out with.


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## Trissacar (Apr 19, 2009)

Equuestriaan said:


> Omg, in that picture you posted -- I met her there too!!! Horsatack, right?


IDK. Where was it? I have a whole story about the people who own that company too....And the heir to Purina Mills.....And about the Olympian that lives down the road....And Frank Chapot who I see at shows....OH and Bruce Sprinsteen!


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## RedHawk (Jun 16, 2008)

upnover said:


> but.... (not sure how to word it and keep it PG) but... how?  I mean, unless it was a deliberate breeding (which I think is just an odd combination) and there was some "assistance"...
> 
> anywho, very cute horse for such a strange combination!


 
LOL! I was wondering the same thing! I have no idea how you would manage to breed a mini and a TB, there's a bit of a height difference.:shock:
But, breeding aside, your horse is VERY cute! I love his face!


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

I don't own him, I just ride him at my barn, but I wish I did! I agree that it would be a little hard to breed a TB/mini- no clue how they managed to breed them...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

AI maybe?


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

I've heard they put the mare beside a bank to assist the "vertically challenged" sires. Still, I've not heard of a mini/tb before... but if it wasn't AI, then the sire is given and added height avantage... lol.
x


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