# Goosey cutting horses



## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Subbing...want to see where this goes....


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Subbing...want to see where this goes....


It might go south...or worse, they might tell me to go to H3II


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> It might go south...or worse, they might tell me to go to H3II



Whaaaat????


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

OK fine, I will get the ball rolling....

My husband, before we got married was irritated with me, he came out to shoe my horse and was slightly mystified why a colt that could ride real nice for a 2 yr. old be complete idiot come to getting his feet done. He ended up shoeing him upside down to get his first set of shoes on. My fault. I don't do a ton of groundwork. I do enough to get by and the rest just comes with time. Now he is the best out of all them to get his feet done, he just rode better first.

I am not going to lie , I kinda had the mentality that the feet was not my problem, that was the shoers job, husband broke me of that.

I still don't do a lot of groundwork, but at least you can pick up feet and get them shod...


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Wow that's weird. That's how me and my wife first met too. 

I do think owners should get them good to work on, but in all honesty I end up doing a lot of it myself. And I don't mind doing a little training when I'm out shoeing. I realize that many of my customers aren't capable of _really_ getting a horse decent to work on. And I don't ask a little old lady to do it for me.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LOL, well actually I never asked him to shoe a horse until 6 months later after we had been together. I did not want him to think that was the reason I wanted to date him..lol
date=free shoeing. That's a story for another time....it's the crap movies are made of...


But back to the subject, I never thought that "end"(the feet) was my "end". And I remember working for guys that it wasn't odd to have to twitch, lip or neck, to get a set of shoes on. These were usually young horses and by the time they were older they were fine for the most part....lol...


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Is this going to be one of these threads where it is just me and you...lol?


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Yup. Looks that way. I figgered for sure there'd be a cutting horse trainer with a loco horse that he didn't want fixed on here tonight to argue with.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Yup. Looks that way. I figgered for sure there'd be a cutting horse trainer with a loco horse that he didn't want fixed on here tonight to argue with.



Well h3ll tater maybe he don't need shoes...ever...


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

if you all don't mind,i'm going to cut in on this dance.i am a professional cutting horse trainer but i don't want to argue.i'm like you cc,i don't do alot of groundwork unless i see the need,but i do get my colts ready for the farrier and vet.but my horses are real jumpy to the move and touch,cause let's face it,if he's laid back or deadsided,he more than likely wont take you to the pay window.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

rob said:


> if you all don't mind,i'm going to cut in on this dance.i am a professional cutting horse trainer but i don't want to argue.i'm like you cc,i don't do alot of groundwork unless i see the need,but i do get my colts ready for the farrier and vet.but my horses are real jumpy to the move and touch,cause let's face it,if he's laid back or deadsided,he more than likely wont take you to the pay window.


LOL, not at all! hoping you would....


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i've trained some as to when they feel my leg to go out and hook him,he's already gone.he don't give me a chance to hook him,cause he's been trained to get there.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

rob said:


> if you all don't mind,i'm going to cut in on this dance.i am a professional cutting horse trainer but i don't want to argue.i'm like you cc,i don't do alot of groundwork unless i see the need,but i do get my colts ready for the farrier and vet.but my horses are real jumpy to the move and touch,cause let's face it,if he's laid back or deadsided,he more than likely wont take you to the pay window.


Trainers-1

AmazinCaucasian-0

Im loosing


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't know, man. Being who I am and doing what I do, I can appreciate a horse that can get down and suck back to get there, but I am not willing to sacrifice a horse's good nature for it.

AC, we've got a horse that is cutting bred that is that way. Every little thing you do on the ground and he thinks you are going to grow huge teeth and eat him. Getting shoes on him is almost an all-day ordeal and the shoer has to _really _understand horses to be able to get it done at all.

_None_ of this has anything to do with his training/handling, he's been like this since I bought him as a birthday present for my Dad as a yearling. No amount of handling or training makes him any better, it's just the way he is and we just have to deal with it. I really hate it that he turned out this way but he and Dad still seem to fit together well. Plus, he's a very nice riding horse, you can do about anything you need to on him....except when what you need to do requires getting off and back on in a hurry.

Personally, I truly dislike the horse, if he were mine, he probably would have been a horseburger years ago....but ****, he can watch a cow.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

so smrobs,i'm assuming you don't care for the jump at their own shadow type of horses.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Nope, not really.

I don't mind it so much on greenies, that's pretty much par for the course. But on a horse that's supposed to be _broke_, I expect to be able to handle them without being at risk of death every moment.

Maybe it's just me, but when it comes to a horses nature, my preference leans toward trustworthy rather than talented. If they have both, that's awesome, but I won't keep a horse I can't trust just because he's great at his job.

Mostly because there _are_ horses out there that are both. Horses that do have good, solid natures and are still crazy talented.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i agree,and it has to do with their handling and training.but i'll be honest,my preference is taking the jumpy athlete,cause i like aggressive horses.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Guys please understand too, I'm usually on here to aggravate people, but I'm being serious on this one. Yes, I think it would be fun to argue, but I might learn something from you guys. So far, three of the most knowledgeable people on here have posted and that's what I hoped would happen. 

I think we all love to feel a good horse do a good job. I just wonder if anyone's ever put much though into this. You know, as horses get better at cutting, I think this could be a real problem. 

Hypothetically, What would you think if a farrier rubbed you're horse down and just spent as long as it took to get a jumpy horse gentle enough to stand quiet? Would it make you mad? Do you think that horse is smart enough to know the difference between you and the farrier? Do you think that horse would kind of associate seeing a guy with a shoeing box and tools with rubbing and wollering, and then become quiet? I know how these horses are wired and I know how tough it is to overcome their tendencies.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh, I don't see any hint of argument here, just a good discussion of what we like and why :wink:.

Personally, I think it is a serious problem. Yeah, they might be great cutters, but if their disposition is so scattered, what job could they hope to have after their years of cutting? If they are that touchy, they wouldn't make good novice or youth horses (like many good cutters do when they start to slow down a bit and aren't at the top of their game anymore), they would never survive ranch work without stressing themselves into a constant state of panic, most of them wouldn't even make good trail horses because you can't trust them not to freak at every new thing that pops up.

Plus, people don't stop to think that not all farriers are like you and my brother, not all of them are willing to work with a horse that is difficult or skittish. There are a lot of farriers that will flat out refuse a horse that won't stand perfectly still the entire time.

For me, breeding/training for horses that are naturally so goosey that they pretty much can't have a life outside of the cutting pen is on par with breeding racehorses with crappy feet and chicken bones. Yep, they might be good at one particular job, but they they aren't worth a **** anywhere else.

The horse that I was discussing earlier, Pokey, wouldn't have had a chance with anyone that didn't match up to my Dad's knowledge and ability. Hell, I _know_ I wouldn't have been able to get him broke. But, I also know that no matter how nice a horse he may be for us, we could never confidently sell him as a riding horse because somebody that knew just a little bit of something about _nice_ horses would get themselves killed trying to mess with him.

I don't consider that a good trait, even if he is a crackerjack cutter :?.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i personally don't put my farrier in a worry position with any horse,cause whether you're shoeing him or training him,if your uncomfortable you're not going to focus on putting 100% into it.provided the farrier is alert and not real sloppy with his tools,same goes for the trainer.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

but smrobs,after some of these horses leave the cut pen,that's when these traders swoop in on them and make good sorters or penners out of them for an experienced rider.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

But, there are only so many riders in the world with the experience needed for those types of horses. I know lots of ranch hands and lots of cowboys, right off hand, I can think of _maybe_ 1 who _might_ have the talent to deal with a horse like Pokey. And these guys aren't schmucks when it comes to horses. 

I do wonder how many of them get passed from home to home to home because people don't want to deal with the screwy temperament.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

alot get passed on,because the big word pride is in the way.people sort once or twice and think they need a top notch horse to win.when they realize it's too much horse,it'too late and they either screw him up or they have to sell it.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Smrobs- Yes there are only so many farriers willing to take on a jumpy one. I pretty much agree with EVERYTHING you've said so far. 

I will add too, that I will work with bad ones still. I'll spend all day if that's what it takes. But it's under MY terms. I use the techniques that I need to use because I know how to NOT get hurt. But the second the owner protests, I pack up. I don't hardly ever get mad, I tell them if they deny me the right to do my job safely, I'll go elsewhere. (You can do that when there's not many good shoers in the area). 

I can think of 2 places I was at where I fixed the horse and made them good to shoe without the owner/trainer there. They were ok to work on after that, but I'm pretty sure if the owner would have seen it, they would've got mad. But I never heard if the horse lost it's "edge" or not.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I can't express a direct opinion on cutting horses as I am not a cutting horse person, but as a general rule, I feel there are many instances where over-specialization has been at the expense of the soundness of a breed - or sub-breed, if you will. 

However, while some over specialization is blatantly obvious, such as halter Quarterhorses that can barely waddle into the arena tip-toeing on their tiny feet, and racing bred Thoroughbreds with insufficient bone and joints to support their weight, the line between specialization and over specialization is both grey and subjective. It makes for interesting debates, but because it is so subjective I doubt there will ever be a consensus...


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

smrobs said:


> Nope, not really.
> 
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but when it comes to a horses nature, my preference leans toward trustworthy rather than talented. If they have both, that's awesome, but I won't keep a horse I can't trust just because he's great at his job.


TOTALLY AGREE. My gelding, Scooby, is much like your dad's horse, and has earned his keep here as my daughter's barrel horse, but his nutjob personality is not for me... and while that " fire" in him works for his discipline, I would much rather ride my sweet and talented mare... 

Overspecialization is dangerous, no matter the event.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

ace,with your last statement,i would have to say that's a matter of opinion.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Ace I agree. You can find lots of spectacular cutting and barrel racing buck-offs on YouTube. 

Here's my philosophy at least on "fast" horses:

Just because a horse has it's head in the sky, fighting your tie-down and pawing the air, running through the bit, that doesn't mean he's fast. That means he's a runaway. I have a horse that will outrun him and then you can stop and drop the reins on his neck and he'll stand still. 

I saw Martha josey at the nfr a few years ago riding a stud I think, and she would fly through the pattern, then pull him up and walk out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i must be lost,i thought our subject here was goosey cutting horses.


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## missnashvilletime (Dec 20, 2011)

in my experience, you can have a good cutting horse who isn't jumpy. My mare is a cutting horse, she takes me to the pay window everytime I've ever competed with her. We also are in the money every time we barrel race (if we don't knock anything over haha) she's very very very very laid back unless she's going into a herd of cattle and by very laid back I mean you're lucky if you get a trot out of her on a trail ride without pushing her haha. You put that mare in an arena with cattle or barrels? You have a whole 'nother horse on your hands. So, I guess my point is, some trainers or horses can do it without being a freak and others can't.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I just don't see the need for a cutting horse to jump out of his skin every time you move your leg.

These horses look perfectly calm but it doesn't hurt their ability any....




 




 




 
The overspecialization is not the only issue here, either. Training has quite a bit to do with it too. IMHO, if you have to reach out and grab him with your spur to get him over in front of a cow often enough to make him grabby about your legs, then he'll never be a great cutter anyway and you're just wasting your time and terrorizing a horse in the process.

If the horse is truly meant to be a cutter, then you should just be able to stay out of his way for the most part. Maybe reach up and bump him with a spur once in a while when he gets sluggish, but that wouldn't make a normal horse skittish about legs.

I don't know, maybe I've just been influenced by all the truly great horses I've known in my life. Heck, there is one in my pasture right now (belongs to my brother) that is by a Doc O'Lena stud out of a Mr. San Peppy mare. He has the ability to compare to pretty much any cutting horse you see in the NCHA, had that been what Jason wanted to do with him. BUT, we can confidently throw beginner riders on him, pile kids all over him, and just turn them loose and know that they'll be safe....then an experienced rider can get on him and hold a wild *** cow in the corner all day long.

So, no, if horses like him can be had for about $2000 (which is pretty much what he cost; $800 to buy the mare and $1200 for a stud fee), there is no need for breeding and/or training horses to be so goosey that only a handful of people in the world can handle and ride confidently.


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## missnashvilletime (Dec 20, 2011)

smrobs said:


> I don't know, maybe I've just been influenced by all the truly great horses I've known in my life. Heck, there is one in my pasture right now (belongs to my brother) that is by a Doc O'Lena stud out of a Mr. San Peppy mare. He has the ability to compare to pretty much any cutting horse you see in the NCHA, had that been what Jason wanted to do with him. BUT, we can confidently throw beginner riders on him, pile kids all over him, and just turn them loose and know that they'll be safe....then an experienced rider can get on him and hold a wild *** cow in the corner all day long.
> 
> So, no, if horses like him can be had for about $2000 (which is pretty much what he cost; $800 to buy the mare and $1200 for a stud fee), there is no need for breeding and/or training horses to be so goosey that only a handful of people in the world can handle and ride confidently.


I agree so much with this, I would say the main reason I see people blow runs is because they're using too much leg, put the horse where you want them and let them do the rest, yes in the beginning they may need a little bump here and there to make sure they stay on the cow correctly but when they start using too much leg the horse gets jumpy and they blow the run, that's just my observation with sorting. I only get to do actual cutting every couple months. But sortings I go to a lot.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I think it may be fairly common in all disciplines for the really top end horses to be "unique" individuals. The reason being that they may have to have a little different mind to give them an edge over the other horses. Maybe a cutting horse is a little spooky and hard to handle because it's always super aware of what's going on around it. If that awareness helps it in the cutting pen then of course you wouldn't want to do anything to take that away or maybe you couldn't if you tried. I would still want a horse safe to handle and I certainly wouldn't get after a farrier that wanted to get the horse a little better to shoe.

I have an appy horse now that I really like and he was hard to get gentle and even now he'll jump a little sometimes when I take my rope down. He has the nerve and the go to work all day and when the going gets tough he gets tough too. This didn't make him the easiest horse to start. He was so goosey about my legs I rode him every other day until I thought I was going to kill him before he calmed down enough that he wouldn't jump when I touched him with a spur. I wasn't riding him for an hour in the arena either. This was a mountain cowboy job and when I hit the saddle it was at least eight hours before I unsaddled. Sometimes the really excellent horses won't make kids horses or trail horses untill after they are done competing.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, Kevin, you would love the horses that one of my customer's breed. Most of them are like that to start, really touchy about your legs and everything you do. Once they figure it all out though and calm down (and they normally do), they are some of the toughest I've ever ridden. Like you said, when things get tough, they get tougher and once you get them broke, their temper usually works to your advantage because it just makes them try that much harder.

Heck, the tall sorrel mare I just sent home this fall, I _couldn't_ lope her into the ground...and I tried on more than one occasion:lol:.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

it's a frainer's job to make a horse look relaxed,and maybe he is,but do you know how long that trainer has been working with these horses.i want my horses to be calm,but when i compete in a cutting or sorting,i want the horse between my knees jumping out of his skin.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Started reading this last night and didn't get a chance to get back and respond. I can see validity in points on both sides. However, I lean more towards the opinion that they can be a different horse in and out of the pen. 

Growing up, my grandpa had a son of Poco Pine that was an NCHA money earner. He was a complete doll, fantastic ground manners, great trail horse, a stud that us kids could ride in his day to day life. However, you put him on a cow and he'd come alive. There was no need to touch him with a spur, his drive was more than enough. 

I think it's possible to have it both ways. They should know when it's time to do their job and when it's time to relax. I'd personally not own one so jumpy they couldn't be enjoyable doing anything aside from working a cow. 

Here's the stud I mentioned, the first cutter I rode when I was about 8 or 9. Grandpa bought me some goats just so I could play on Trig, man I loved that horse!


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

mhf,gorgeous stud,and i agree with everything you said.i trained and show a 4yr old high brow cat stud for a client,my 11yr old daughter can lope him in the warm up pen,but even my wife or owner can sit him on a cow.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Thanks Rob. Wish he was still living. I do still own one of his daughters, she just turned 23 and has been taken over by my 6 yo daughter though lol! 

That sounds like most of mine, they are all babysitters unless they are doing their jobs and I love them that way!


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

your daughter has good taste,and i'm like you,i wish i could make them all that way.i have 2 from previous wanna be trainers that trust me now with alot of time,but are real nervous around kids.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

MHF - Is that Jana's sire?? He's too cute! Absolutely love his face..

Alright, back on topic. I do think that this behavior can start in many different ways..My gelding is cutting bred Papa Hickory Doc Quarter Horseand does have that quick reaction and you better be expecting it or he's going to leave you sitting in the air. That said, we've come a long way together. I now know that it is not a good idea to wear spurs on him, at all. Before I got Hickory he was used as a cutter and penner. They took him out of the cutting ring because he started to be really aggressive with the cows and biting them..Not good. So he was strictly a penner until I got him and started running barrels on him. It's just the way he was trained and ridden for so long. He was taught to be responsive THEN and a lot of cutters are trained that way...It just depends on the horse too..Soo that said.

My mare Nikki is reining and running bred Nu Kinda Nic Quarter Horseand is my "go to" barrel horse and she's SO reliable when it comes to her job. She's great, very responsive, very willing to do anything asked of her, and is a fantastic teacher...BUT she is also a paranoid crazy lady who thinks every thing is out to get her...Now, I've talked to the people who bred her, trained her, and run barrels on her until I got her..No idea where this behavior came from. Her little bursts of "OMG IT'S GOING TO EAT ME!!" are rare but I realize I have to watch out for these things..

Some of her little weird quirks are - She doesn't like to be tied at home. She is have a panic attack if something moves too fast near her and she can't get her head around to snort at it. But if I don't tie her, she's fine. lol She's a ground tying champion.

Next weird habit - She is absolutely terrified of a lead rope on the ground and the water hose..But only If I'm not touching it. If it's in my hand, psh, it's nothing. Whole different story if she has to walk over the water hose lying on the ground.

Weirdest habit - We can be trail riding, the same trail we always take for the past 2ish years. There are things that she sees every time and I know she's going to spook at. A road sign, one mailbox, cows, any small animal that moves too fast, and the weirdest of all...She can be trotting along and for NO reason at all spook, and I'm not talking about a "run away" spook. I mean an all four feet off the ground, snorting, freeze, "if I don't move it won't see me" spook. Sierra laughs at her and when Nikki spooks her imaginary things we all laugh and say "Killer tree!" and continue on our way..

To conclude my little story, I don't think it's just a trainer created thing. Some horses just have those little quirks and it's not a big deal if you know the horse and know what they are going to do. To me, the little weird quirks aren't enough to sell the horse when they have great traits that out weigh the "Killer Tree!" moments.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> MHF - Is that Jana's sire?? He's too cute! Absolutely love his face..


Nope, Buttons - he's Woodstock's grandsire. Jana's sire was Doc, a black son of Poco Dell.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> Nope, Buttons - he's Woodstock's grandsire. Jana's sire was Doc, a black son of Poco Dell.
> 
> View attachment 87306


Ahhh...So that's where Woodstock gets his cute face? Is Buttons his dam?


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Yep. Hondo is his sire & Buttons his dam.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> Yep. Hondo is his sire & Buttons his dam.


Well you know those two can definitely produce a good foal!


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Yeah, too bad they are both geriatrics now, I'd love another one. Sadly Buttons is starting to show some arthritis and I won't do that to her. 

Sorry for the thread derail, AC. Back to your regular scheduled programming:wink:


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm glad you posting this. (Sorry, I'm not reading through all of the responses.) *Horse owners with badly mannered horses don't realize how dangerous it can be for our Vets and our farriers.* I've lost farriers who quit bc horse "pets" laid all of their weight on the legs of the hooves they were trimming, and their backs couldn't take it anymore. I finally found an Amish farrier--he won't quit, LOL!--and he has heavy wooden stocks for unruly horses. I was early for an appt. and got to watch him shoe these 2 Belgians who wouldn't let him pick their feet, much less hot shoe them. Every few minutes these 2 would fight the stocks, but he immobilized all four legs and got the job done. WHY the owner, a regular customer, never works with their feet is BEYOND me!! _MY horses behave for him._
My Vet, who only does dogs, cat & horses was threatening to stop treating horses *bc of one owner. *The owner's one horse bit her in the face and the other gelding mule kicked her while under sedation to have his sheath cleaned. WTHeck?!?!? I can clean my gelding's sheaths while reaching through the other side of the fence, for crying out loud!!! I can leave town and my Vet can give them shots with somebody else handling them. Don't people realize that bad horse manners unchecked will eventually be detrimental to the horse? It's Not JUST cutting horses. There was an incident a few years ago where a big$ winning, bad mannered TB stallion almost killed the owner's (adult) son in the barn--is THIS really necessary?!?!? Had it been someone else hurt there would have been a legitimate lawsuit over this.
I say stop making excuses and teach your horses what a farrier and a Vet is, and take the time to teach them that their behavior needs to be different around them.
If your prize winning dog bites someone, the police will be out and your dog might have to be put down. DON'T think our horses will be treated differently.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

now corporal,calm down.it sounds to me like your farrier and vet were sissies,if they were ready to quit after one incident.and if horses have that bad of manners,it's probably from one or two things.they either wasn't trained early enough to have manners because they were spoiled,or everyone just pointed a finger at them before and said,you be a good boy,now don't you do that.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Corporal said:


> Don't people realize that bad horse manners unchecked will eventually be detrimental to the horse? It's Not JUST cutting horses.


I agree - it's not just cutting horses.

Our farrier has dropped clients because the owners won't work with the horse. It's not worth his health or life to deal with dangerous horses for a mere $35 trim.

I am horribly embarrassed if my horse is dangerous naughty for the farrier or the vet. (naughty is annoying but striking, rearing, kicking or biting is not tolerated) Pain or an unusual situation the professional is going to understand but an every day run of the mill appointment, no.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

you people complain about the horse,but do you do anything to correct the problem?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If a farrier wanted to be a horse trainer that's what he'd be. I wouldn't hold it against any farrier for walking away from a horse that wouldn't stand to get shoes on. I would appreciate one that would work on a horse a little but I certainly wouldn't expect it. It's too easy for a horse to hurt a farrier enough to cost him his livelyhood. A badly broken finger or hand can mean a month without any pay. An injured leg or back can mean the end of a career. 

As far a a vet goes, I've seen **** few that where very good at handling horses anyway so it's probably in your best interest not to ask them to train on an unruly horse.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i agree with you kevin,a good trainer should teach a horse to behave no matter who's around.but let's look from the trainer's side,if they send home every horse that kicks,bites,or throws them,they probably won't have many in the barn and won't be that good of a trainer,cause they sent all the challenges home.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

rob said:


> you people complain about the horse,but do you do anything to correct the problem?


 
I assume you are talking to me?

Our farrier is a saint. He does try to help and suggests exercises to help the horse owner. But if they don't follow through, how many times is he supposed to try?

I saw him a couple of weeks ago and he mentioned he had recently had to drop a client because he just could not get through to them the mare needed training. It was an argument to get her front feet done but a war to get her back feet done. In the two years he had been doing this horse, she had her back feet trimmed 3 times. She didn't kick out - she fired and was aiming with intent. "No no" just doesn't cut it. I feel he was right to finally drop them.

This was a back yard pasture ornament.

He is working on a new horse at our barn that has some serious trust issues. The horse is a new purchase to the current boarder. He's 16'2' running about 1150 -1200. He is nasty when you pick up his fronts for more than a cleaning. The farrier gave her exercises but to shoe said he would need to be tranqued. (The horse had reared up and hooked it's self on the top of a stall - we worked at 5 degrees on this horse for two hours - feed bribe, tying a leg up, buddy horse, etc). The owner has 6-8 weeks to work on this horse. I've seen her do the suggested exercises once since the farrier was there. No way will it be farrier's fault if he decides he doesn't want to deal with the horse.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i'm not pin pointing anyone.i just believe that if a farrier has alot of trouble,then apparently somebody didn't do the right homework.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Corporal said:


> I'm glad you posting this. (Sorry, I'm not reading through all of the responses.) *Horse owners with badly mannered horses don't realize how dangerous it can be for our Vets and our farriers.* I've lost farriers who quit bc horse "pets" laid all of their weight on the legs of the hooves they were trimming, and their backs couldn't take it anymore. I finally found an Amish farrier--he won't quit, LOL!--and he has heavy wooden stocks for unruly horses. I was early for an appt. and got to watch him shoe these 2 Belgians who wouldn't let him pick their feet, much less hot shoe them. Every few minutes these 2 would fight the stocks, but he immobilized all four legs and got the job done. WHY the owner, a regular customer, never works with their feet is BEYOND me!! _MY horses behave for him._
> My Vet, who only does dogs, cat & horses was threatening to stop treating horses *bc of one owner. *The owner's one horse bit her in the face and the other gelding mule kicked her while under sedation to have his sheath cleaned. WTHeck?!?!? I can clean my gelding's sheaths while reaching through the other side of the fence, for crying out loud!!! I can leave town and my Vet can give them shots with somebody else handling them. Don't people realize that bad horse manners unchecked will eventually be detrimental to the horse? It's Not JUST cutting horses. There was an incident a few years ago where a big$ winning, bad mannered TB stallion almost killed the owner's (adult) son in the barn--is THIS really necessary?!?!? Had it been someone else hurt there would have been a legitimate lawsuit over this.
> I say stop making excuses and teach your horses what a farrier and a Vet is, and take the time to teach them that their behavior needs to be different around them.
> If your prize winning dog bites someone, the police will be out and your dog might have to be put down. DON'T think our horses will be treated differently.



I think you might be confusing jumpy or sensitive horses with just flat out disrespect. To me there is a difference, big difference.

There are the ones that want to be a ***** to see if he can get away with it...those are the disrespectful ones. And the ones we are talking about are the ultra sensitive ones, or ones that a little nervous or just don't know. 

Like I said already, the first time hubby shod mine he had to do him upside down, he wasn't being mean, he just wasn't taught...my fault. But now he stands like a champ, it came with time...no biggie, he wasn't trying to kill anyone, he didn't know.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

There are horses that are jumpy from training and horses that are naturally jumpy. I have rode horses that are both but I prefer a that has that personality over one that was made that way.

The thing with riding a horse that is naturally over sensitive is finding the balance.
You can't completely skirt around it, nor can you over ride them, if want to get the best out of them...in my opinion.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

rob said:


> i must be lost,i thought our subject here was goosey cutting horses.


As I stated in my original post, race horses are a similar deal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

rob said:


> now corporal,calm down.it sounds to me like your farrier and vet were sissies,if they were ready to quit after one incident.


This is trolling, I know because I do it too. 

But I'll reply anyway. I've quit after one incident. If the horse is 
bad in any way (too lazy or too goosey), and the owner won't allow me to fix it, I'm gone. There's plenty of good ones to do. 
That's the situation that led to this thread. When people have expensive cutters or racers, sometimes they think their horse is more valuable than their farrier. They'd rather watch their shoer dodge kicks than break their prize horse's spirit. Well, that may be a $100,000 horse, but I have a couple $100,000 legs and I'm not getting them broke because of something that can be fixed

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> This is trolling, I know because I do it too.
> 
> But I'll reply anyway. I've quit after one incident. If the horse is bad in any way (too lazy or too goosey), and the owner won't allow me to fix it, I'm gone. There's plenty of good ones to do.
> That's the situation that led to this thread. When people have expensive cutters or racers, sometimes they think their horse is more valuable than their farrier. They'd rather watch their shoer dodge kicks than break their prize horse's spirit.
> ...


My friend that shoes (she does our horses, hubby isn't home enough to do it and rather pay someone else  ) says that the racehorses are the worst. She does a little of everything, barrel horses, ropers, cutters(she shoes Chiquita Pistol) back yard horses...whatever... and she says the race horses are the worst and she will pack her **** and leave. Even though she is female, she ain't no wimp, she rides horses on the side and she rides some tough ones.

I leave it to the shoer to do what he/she needs to do to make it work. It's not fair for me not to do the work to make it easier on him yet get mad when he gets after my horse, or goes to training on him to get the job done safely.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Yeah To me a good farrier is a good horseman and can tune on somebody's horse and make em better without injuring them. It's pretty nice for everybody when you can trust your shoer to do things if you can't be there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

See, that's the way I am too. I work with my young'uns, but we all know that a horse will often act differently with a new person. While they may be great for me, they are sometimes not so great when it comes time for brother to slap iron on them. I have found it's safer if I let _him _punish them if they need it because he can do it quicker, safer, and more effectively than I could. I can't always tell when one is starting to lean on him or thinking about pulling away, but he can feel it and react accordingly. That's why it's awesome to know my farrier and know he handles horses like I do. He's not afraid to give one a beating if they need it, but if they are green or scared, he has infinite patience and knows when to give them their foot back before they get too wound up.

About the most I do is stand at their head and talk to them/scratch on them if they are nervous.

Like someone said earlier, if most shoers and/or vets wanted to be trainers, then that's what they would be. It's not really fair to them to ask them to risk their lives because you can't or won't take the time to make sure your horse is safe to handle, regardless of whether he is how he is because of nature or training.

To call them sissies because they don't feel the need to risk life and limb for someone _else's_ poorly behaved horse is just offensive :?. I _like_ a shoer or vet that will stick in there if my horse isn't perfectly behaved, but I also understand and respect their decision if they say "I'm sorry, I just can't deal with this".


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

the farrier isn't supposed to fix or train a horse.his job is to fix the feet.and ac,i'm not going to have anyone break any horse i'm riding's spirit,but i'm **** sure not going to let a shoer loose his patience and beat on them either.that's why i say that it's the trainer's job to make him safe,but there's nothing wrong with a horse having a little life to him.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My mare isn't a cutter, but she has LOTS of 'life' in her! She is hyper-alert...very sensitive to what is going on around her. That explains our long history of unplanned and open-ended accelerations...

However, she has her feet handled regularly. The farrier loves her. She picks her feet up before he touches them and holds them until he is done.

I only have 3 horses, so I can't discuss trends. I merely point out that a horse can have tons of 'life' and still be very well behaved for the farrier.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

bsms i agree,but who taught your horses to stand and tolerate a farrier?


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

rob: I commend you on your determination to start an argument. I must be hard when everyone agrees with you.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

rob said:


> bsms i agree,but who taught your horses to stand and tolerate a farrier?


I did. Mia did NOT stand well for a farrier when I got her. I would never expect a professional trainer to teach a horse to stand for a farrier, unless the trainer was hired specifically for that purpose.

The way I read AC's OP, it was that some cutting trainers seem to WANT their horse spooky about everything, and thus 
_"BUT I do remember leaving a couple training barns because the trainer didn't like me getting the horse desensitized...I mean I rubbed down their belly and hind legs for just long enough that they could kinda stand for me to shoe them. I did it because the horse was a danger to me and himself."_​My point is that Mia has lost none of her hyper-awareness or intensity or spirit by being trained to behave for a farrier. It took a fair bit of effort to get Mia to stand quietly for the farrier, and more for her to reach the point of picking her own feet up for him. That effort has NOT made her a docile, dead-headed horse. She is still a bundle of nerves, capable of exploding...but she won't do that because someone is handling her feet.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

smrobs said:


> Like someone said earlier, if most shoers and/or vets wanted to be trainers, then that's what they would be. *It's not really fair to them to ask them to risk their lives because you can't or won't take the time to make sure your horse is safe to handle, regardless of whether he is how he is because of nature or training.*
> 
> To call them sissies because they don't feel the need to risk life and limb for someone _else's_ poorly behaved horse is just offensive :?. I _like_ a shoer or vet that will stick in there if my horse isn't perfectly behaved, but I also understand and respect their decision if they say "I'm sorry, I just can't deal with this".


Thanks--your comments made more sense than mine bc this is _exactly how I feel._
I do not think that cutting horses as a breed or type are culprets. I DO believe that the owners/trainers of ANY horse that hurts a farrier or Vet should be ashamed to link bad ground manners to result from under saddle lightness. Phooey!! I don't want to spend any time with their badly mannered children, either. It's a lot like jerk-y kids misbehaving in a classroom, then saying, "My Bad" to cover it. =/


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

no kevin,i'm not trying to start an argument.i just don't think that cutting horses should be crucified because they move and i don't believe in pampering farriers.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

rob said:


> no kevin,i'm not trying to start an argument.i just don't think that cutting horses should be crucified because they move and i don't believe in pampering farriers.


Well, I DO pamper my farrier. He is also a trainer--perhaps he'll train one of my horses under harness in the future--and I"M NOT the hoof expert that he is, so he's my eyes, I depend upon his advice for my horse's welfare. I don't think we'll agree on this, *rob,* so I'm not argueing with you, just want others to consider that sometimes it's very hard to find a farrier if you move, or if you just pixx yours off. When I moved to my place my DD and I trimmed for months--how many people does it take to trim just one hoof?!?, lol--before I found somebody to trim and shoe for me who would drive to my place. MY great farrier will drive (He's Amish, so he sets up some days with a driver to reach about 7 customers close to me) and I trailer to his place, too, when there is fair weather. The trailering has helped my younger geldings to put trailering miles under their belts, too, so to speak.
Same with my Vet. I do NOT want my Vet to think twice about an emergency bc she is afraid my horse will hurt her. She is my VET, NOT my trainer. I expect her to consult with other Vets and tell me when I need to stop giving certain vaccines, or to start new ones--have your heard about possible rabies for horses this year?--or just to check out a lameness issue so I don't exacerbate an injury with training under saddle. I'm done. I guess, since I've run my own business I try to not irritate possible customers.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

If making sure to train my horses enough so that they aren't so quick to jump out of their skin every time someone touches them or moves around them is "pampering", then I'm **** proud of it. Why should the farrier have to suffer because it's _your _preference to have goosey horses.

I guess I just don't get the reasoning behind that. My guy Dobe isn't a cutting horse, though he does have the desire and the energy to do so (curse his lack of natural ability LOL). He is uber sensitive and super responsive....BUT, he still stands still for the farrier and vet like a good, broke horse should. Being safe to handle on the ground does not affect his responsiveness under saddle at all.

It doesn't have to be one way or the other, just because they are calm and comfortable being handled doesn't mean that they can't be responsive under saddle. You _can_ have both without compromising either.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

-Subbing. 
I cant speak for Cutting horses since I do not own one. But I do own a a spirited Gelding that would be skinned alive if he were disrespectful to my farrier or vet.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

rob said:


> ...i don't believe in pampering farriers.


I lost the service of a very good farrier after a horse broke his back. The doctors told him that, at best, he'd be able to work half of his clients...and I was one of the ones who lived farthest away from him. Broken back = months without work = at best half the income.

If not wanting to see a man get a broken back or lose his livelihood is pampering, then I pamper my farrier. And I see no sign that learning to pick up her feet and wait for the farrier is turning Mia into a dead-head horse. Although I almost wish it would...I could use a bit of 'deadness' in her!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Interesting thread. Hearing about what farriers have to go through and will go through to get the job done, amazes me. I also feel sorry for my old farrier that put up with our horses that weren't bad, but a bit too relaxed. Happily picked up their feet for the farrier as soon as their leg was slightly touched, but might shift weight onto the leg being worked on so they could cock the opposite foot... or decide that the farriers back made a nice head rest while they nearly fell asleep. I would imagine that puts a lot of strain on a farrier's back over time. We did have one farrier that for some reason, one of the horses absolutely hated (never had any problems with any one else, but would try to bite the farrier when he walked past her stall). Would also add that she has never had a problem with any other person/farrier but she would have her ears flat back at the sight of that one farrier coming into the barn.

It is up to the owner, IMO, to either work with the feet or pay someone else to do it for them, not leave it up to the farrier. Their only job and focus should be getting the feet done in a timely manner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

This is not in any way related to cutting horses, so I'm sorry if it's off topic!! I have been reading this thread with interest since the beginning because, we in dressage land also have some issues with behavior on the ground with our horses. Talk to any dressage trainer and they will tell you, our horses, they are different. They don't "get" bombproof, they don't ever stop testing the boundaries and half them never get totally broke. Our world record holding horse switched riders and now can't do a demo ride without completely exploding, compared to with the old rider, warming up in a crowded ring and not placing a hoof wrong. A lot of how these horses behave has to do with how they are handled, and how well they know that handler's boundaries. The things are too darn smart, bold and athletic, but in the ring it is the smartest, boldest, most athletic horse that wins.
Take that horse, and put a farrier under him now. That's when it can get interesting because the horse will turn an inch into a mile in the span of 3 seconds and any lapse in handling turns into a "problem" that cannot be resolved without the aid of the farrier.
Case in point is my beloved beast. He is worked with around tarps, jackets, balls, trail ridden, desensitized, etc.. and his ground manners are impecable for the most part. I can move him over with my voice, handle his hooves with very little pressure to pick them up and he holds them up for me very nicely while I pick scabs (love having 3 white legs and all the mud fever *roll eyes*), pick feet and clip. He stands for bathing, loads without anyone leading him, and is generally pleasurable to be around. 
I had a farrier who used to shoe him, but she would not correct him. As a result he learned that "this idiot lets me do whatever I want" and him slamming a hoof down quickly escalated into striking the handler and repeatedly standing on and kicking at the farrier. She finished the shoe job and booked the next appointment, but texted me 12 hours prior to let me know she would not be coming (how considerate).
Luckily a very good farrier in my area was building up his client base after a hiatus. With the vet present, he came to shoe the horse. This horse was now a cocky sheister and he dealt with it wonderfully. I was very, very impressed when he pulled out a lip string and put it over his gums and used that to correct the horse along with positioning him in a manner which forced him to be subservient, including nearly laying the horse down a few times. That was the last time the horse pulled any crap. He insisted the horse set his feet down nicely, and still to this day will correct any, tiny, tiny behavior he does not like. Because of the work that he helped me put into the horse (remember, I can hold the horse's leg up for 10 minutes and pick mud fever scabs with no objection, bang whatever I want on the shoes, etc..) he will now stand for the entire 2-3 hour shoeing session with no objections.

So while I agree it is important to have a horse that stands well, sometimes behaviors are created that owners cannot rectify themselves and need the help of a farrier to fix. If this guy had balked at shoeing the horse, I would be up poop creek probably still having to have the vet out every trim with a sedative. Instead I have a horse that ground ties and goes to sleep while being shod, because the rules were layed out clearly by the farrier.

So OP - yes, I love when farriers correct my horse!! I don't like having to resort to liquid horse trainer to have the horse shod and really, I would not be a very good rider or trainer if what I did in the saddle required the horse to be "goosey" on the ground!!


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I figure there are just as many English horses that need fixing. I just don't see many here. 

The question still remains, "can your horse learn the difference"? Whether its a dressage champion or a cutter, If they're so smart, gifted, and talented, can't they be desensitized to vet/farrier routines and still perform at the same level under saddle? 

Seems like some people give them a kind of "celebrity status" and allow them to get away with more because they are exceptional athletes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If they were EXCEPTIONAL then I would say that's no big deal but most aren't exceptional they're just good or maybe accomplished.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> I figure there are just as many English horses that need fixing. I just don't see many here.
> 
> The question still remains, "can your horse learn the difference"? Whether its a dressage champion or a cutter, If they're so smart, gifted, and talented, can't they be desensitized to vet/farrier routines and still perform at the same level under saddle?
> 
> ...


 Hey, if my horse can do what he does, which is not to say he is "exceptional", but he does a notable performance and is competing at internationally sanctioned levels, and walk over tarps, deal with desinsitization and yes, stand quietly for the farrier, then I don't see why any other horse can't. A horse should be able to tell the difference between 150lbs on his back and a leg on each side, and a guy bent over picking up a foot.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Yes very true Kevin and Anabel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

when you have world qualifiers and world champions in both open and youth,that is exceptional.but i still say it's not the farriers job to train the horse.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I'll add a little story 

I had to shoe a qh for a lady one time that was scared to death. She told me he's scared of my apron. I didn't believe that, not even a little bit. 

But we were talking about it and I thought, why not give it a shot? I took my apron off and he calmed right down. Now I wasn't willing to do him without my apron, but knowing this gave me a good start. I hear stories about horses being "abused" all day long, and I don't believe 95 percent of them, but I would bet this horse had a bad experience with someone with legging on. 

So experiences like this lead me to look at things optimistically. Why can't the roles be reversed? I have seen horses that were scared of everything and everybody except me. Horses that never behaved for anything but would tolerate me wollering under them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

rob said:


> when you have world qualifiers and world champions in both open and youth,that is exceptional.but i still say it's not the farriers job to train the horse.


You let youths ride and handle those goosey ones that the farrier isn't allowed to train? Poor youths
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

rob, I've always wondered how exactly one does go about training a horse for the farrier, without a farrier. I can teach the horse to stand, I can teach the horse to have his feet messed with, banged on and held up for a while, heck I can even put them up on a stand... but until that truck is coming up the driveway I have no idea what the horse is going to do. If he's going to be an idiot and test the guy, then I need to know that my farrier is not going to back down and let the horse win. I need my farrier to trust me that I've honestly done all I can and it's not that the horse aint broke, it's that he's a little ****** and needs to get knocked down a few ranks. I need the farrier to yes, help me train the horse. And if it's done right the first time, it shouldn't ever be a problem ever again.

Amazin - you can come train my horses anytime


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Oh man rob, just about the time I started to strike up an argument, you liked my post. Dammit now I feel bad. Ok I'm going to pick my favorite post of yours on this thread and like it. OK? Then we can argue later or now, or whatever. Then we can even go to someone else's thread and argue with them, Cool? I like you rob.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I want in on that!


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Anebel, thanks. I'd train on em and wouldn't even charge you any extra HeeHee


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Kevin- the more the merrier


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

laugh all you want,but when you get a horses rib out of place from a farrier's hammer,or a hernia from him kicking him in the gut,then you just have to live with it.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

If you'd train em, we wouldn't have to
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

And if the farrier pulls out a 44 and blows my horse away, I have to live with that. Understood. But the two farriers I've used have never done more than a quick flick of a rasp, and that hasn't been needed for several years. And if one starts hammering away with a sledge...he'll need to worry about MY .44...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

rob said:


> laugh all you want,but when you get a horses rib out of place from a farrier's hammer,or a hernia from him kicking him in the gut,then you just have to live with it.


And if the farrier gets a torn ACL or a ruptured disc in his back then he can always be a truck driver.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i'm done with this topic,because it started out about goosy cutting horses,not my poor farrier can't get hurt cause he has to train my horse.and ac,don't feel like a rooster cause you can bad mouth my training,you haven't seen my training.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I'd consider taking a look at your training if you care to post a video.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i don't have to prove my training to you,i've already proven it to the aqha and ncha.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)




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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

:rofl: AC, I saw that vid a long time ago but I still get a kick out of it.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm suprised that guy stayed on. Most cutters ride like a sack of potatoes.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, I was surprised as well but I thought it best to hold my tongue. I can't ride a bucker to save my life if they do much more than take a couple of hops in a straight line .


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LOL, I'm impressed, he actually put on a pretty good ride....I probably would of fell off, usually at jump two I blow a pedal and at three I am hanging off the side thinking I might recover, then 3.5 in the brush...and that's on a Shetland pony.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

smrobs said:


> LOL, I was surprised as well but I thought it best to hold my tongue. I can't ride a bucker to save my life if they do much more than take a couple of hops in a straight line .



yeah right, I bet your a bronc stomper from way back!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, nope, that was my Dad. Heck, the last horse that bucked me off didn't throw much more than some watered down crow-hops at me.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LOL, don't feel bad, The last horse I fell of didn't even crow-hop...

We picked up some horses out in CA from a rope horse guy that wanted some outside riding done on them. We get them home, a saddle up the filly and we strike a trot from the saddle barn to mash some pairs. Not thinking- but horses not raised on the desert have a hard time moving through sage brush rather than just pushing through it or around it they usually jump it... well one jump to the left, one jump to the right, and another one to the left and I was hanging off the side refusing to completely fall off with my *** about about 4 inches off the ground..made for a good laugh, and good thing the filly was gentle..lol


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

:rofl: Been there!!

I rode a little paint Doc O'Lena filly for some friends a few years ago and holy cow that girl could move. We were just going along one day and she spooked at something. She was one of those that was short backed and could be booking the other direction before you even realize she spooked. Anyway, she sucked back, spun and started to take off and I, of course, was riding along at a jog with head up anus:lol:. Next thing I knew, she was just _gone_ and the only thing that kept me from eating dirt was my spur hung up under the saddle pad :? .

There I was hanging halfway off her side with one foot in the stirrup shoved up under her belly and the other spur holding the saddle pad for all it was worth and, thankfully, she just stopped, looked at me funny, and then waited while I scrambled back into the saddle. 

Funniest thing was that her actions were so uncharacteristic of her breeding. Those VP bred horses (local breeder that bred her momma) are notorious for causing quite the...um....spectacle when things don't go just exactly right.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Bah ha! Sneaky ponies!

While we are telling embarrassing stories...

I was riding a three year old that was notorious for just being lazy(you know the ones that bite you in the *** later) Me and another girl were looking for some Charolias steers hiding in some willows. I was sitting half cocked looking backwards off of this colt, you know, a butt cheek off one side and just a toe barely in the stirrup on the other side while looking back...well...some deer jumped out of the willows and he dumped, my foot actually hung in my stirrup, but thank God I ride in boots a little big that don't lace up for this reason, and my boot came off...lol...it was pretty funny actually because the other girl was completely dumbfounded as what happened because it happened so fast as this colt was famous for being a dead head she didn't even see it happen. She turned back around to see him with his head down with grass in his mouth and me laying on the ground laughing looking for my boot.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

my theory about those goosy cutter's is,if you can't straddle 'em then don't saddle 'em.


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