# Rein contact



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

A loose rein is just that, loose. No contact, there is only one meaning.

Now I get what you are asking about and it is different. *When riding with contact* there are times when you will release as a reward, that *never* means dropping the reins or "loose" reins, but simply "giving" in return, in such a way that a novice would not see the give and take. It's something that needs to be taught in person, it's more a feel than anything, hold vs give. If the horse gives and you throw your reins away what would the next step be?

A reward is a slight give in your body/arms, dropping contact is literally dropping the reins, a bit of a difference, there will always be contact with the reward. A reward is NOT about more or less contact but simply a little more "giving" (maybe slightly less but NOT dropping contact or close to it). Think of how you can "hold" with your reins without pulling on the horse, well giving is the same. Answer is the same bit or bitless 

I WILL occasionally drop the reins (to the buckle) mid ride to really emphasize "what a GOOD horse, we are DONE!" then get off, or simply go to something else (stretching down, long and low, but that isn't just "dropped" like the previous sentence)


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I generally ride with at least SOME contact, except on one of my horses. 

I agree that reward does not mean complete release of rein.....the problem in describing this over the internet is that contact is different horse to horse..


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

OP are you speaking of "contact" in western or English terms or both?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> Okay, so this is a general riding question I guess, but I'm also looking for it in regards to trail riding, so..
> 
> 
> My question is, what exactly does everyone mean by a loose rein?
> ...



my responses in red.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Yogiwick said:


> A loose rein is just that, loose. No contact, there is only one meaning.
> 
> Now I get what you are asking about and it is different. *When riding with contact* there are times when you will release as a reward, that *never* means dropping the reins or "loose" reins, but simply "giving" in return.
> 
> ...





greentree said:


> I generally ride with at least SOME contact, except on one of my horses.
> 
> I agree that reward does not mean complete release of rein.....the problem in describing this over the internet is that contact is different horse to horse..


 
I get what you're saying yogiwick, thanks! I never just drop my reins altogether, and by loose reins I meant just not putting any tension on the reins. Holding them very loosely is how I often ride my gelding, simply because he doesn't need to be constantly directed. He moves in one direction (or along the path we're traveling) until I turn him. Even then, I typically only need very light contact. 


As far as how to reward, I never thought about it like that, but it's a very good point. Since my reins are always loose, it isn't a big thing, but then again, I am beginning to think my reins may be too long. The ones I use on him look more like ground reins than riding ones, lol. Keeping that contact isn't as easy as it could be.


The problem is that other reins I used seemed too short (as in he couldn't move his head freely enough IMO), and these are the only ones I've found that work for us. He carries his head low anyway, and coupled with the fact that his neck is kinda long/my arms are short, it's hard to work around the reins I have access to. 


What do you mean greentree by contact being different from horse to horse? I understand it's hard over the internet, I just wanted a general idea.



Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> OP are you speaking of "contact" in western or English terms or both?


 
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you're talking about what discipline I ride, it's not one or the other. I ride bareback and without a bit, plus just for fun. We don't have a discipline. 




Also thanks tinyliny, I will have to look more closely at everything you put (I read it, but want to look more into it later.)


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

What is considered loose depends just on who you are talking to and the type of riding they do. Personally when I say loose rein I mean I have to pull in at least 6 inches of rein to put pressure on the bit and at times I may have to yard in two feet. I don't go this loose on young or inexperienced trail horses but once I have a seasoned trail horse that I can relax on, I do.

By the time my horse reaches this point all I have to do is roll my wrist to get them to turn via neck reining, they'll stop on a "Whoa", speed up on a cluck and move their body over off my leg. When I do pick up the reins, they know there's a reason to pay attention to the trail.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you're talking about what discipline I ride, it's not one or the other. I ride bareback and without a bit, plus just for fun. We don't have a discipline.


Tinyliny and Darrin both explained what I was asking. 

Riding western I think of “contact” as completing the communication circuit, between the rider and the horse via the reins, using a change in pressure that the horse can detect and understand. So a pre-cue or pre-signal is a type of "contact" to a western rider.

A "loose" rein is as Darrin explained. For me if I can reach down the rein and easily put direct pressure on the bit, without having to change my seat, but have little to no pressure otherwise, then that is loose enough for me. I don't like my reins so loose that they waggle back and forth when we trot or canter.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

depends on both the training on your horse, and what you are doing Ideally, a western horse, that has advanced to a curb, can be ridden mainly off of seat and legs. I thus ride them that way on trails. They do not constantly seek guidance from bit contact, because they have learned self carriage.
If you are r---training a horse, even western, you have to use a combination of bit contact and driving with legs, rewarding with release when the horse is correct, but then giving him a chance to stay correct, without bit contact, taking up contact again when he falls apart, using the right balance between legs and reins to'fix' him
Over time, he learns to stay correct , without that help for longer and longer
English horses learn to seek that bit contact, so different again.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

If you are not riding with a bit, then your reins should be loose, until you ask for a cue, or else the horse becomes dull to the pressure and no longer feels it.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Darrin said:


> What is considered loose depends just on who you are talking to and the type of riding they do. Personally when I say loose rein I mean I have to pull in at least 6 inches of rein to put pressure on the bit and at times I may have to yard in two feet. I don't go this loose on young or inexperienced trail horses but once I have a seasoned trail horse that I can relax on, I do.
> 
> By the time my horse reaches this point all I have to do is roll my wrist to get them to turn via neck reining, they'll stop on a "Whoa", speed up on a cluck and move their body over off my leg. When I do pick up the reins, they know there's a reason to pay attention to the trail.


As someone who has done strictly trail riding, ^^^^This in a nutshell. 

As others have said "loose rein" can also depend on the horse. Loose rein on the horse in my avatar was a lot more trusting than one of my other horses, that rides in a mechanical hackamore.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Loose is still loose regardless of the exact amount.

This quote "you reward the horse with something that it can recognize as a reward. If the horse is used to having pretty consistent and strong contact, a very slight softening of the hand will be enough for him to feel a release, to, in effect, hear your 'thank you'. But a horse that is green may need to have a very dramatic presentation of a release in order for it to start putting two and two together and realize, "hey, when I do A, she gives me this really nice loose rein. . . I think I'll do A again!"" is a really important detail! Good point! I ride with very light hands and I am teaching my "restart" to trust the hands and move into the bit, when I give I really do give dramatically. One of our things is to bend into the outside rein (contact) using an inside rein held waayy to the inside to really push her into the outside. When she moves nicely into the outside I will literally drop the inside and praise. Of course she responds by turning her head to the outside and losing the contact, so we just pick it up again, rinse and repeat. Sort of a one rein at a time thing. Now on a trained horse that would be all sorts of wrong, and my answer was definitely geared towards "proper" riding.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> Okay, so this is a general riding question I guess, but I'm also looking for it in regards to trail riding, so..
> 
> 
> My question is, what exactly does everyone mean by a loose rein?
> ...


The answers to your questions will vary depending not only on an individual’s training, but also on how they use the reins in different instances. It might, also, depend on the type of bit being used.

To one person, loose reins might mean only a slight give on the reins where direct contact may be lost but can be regained by a flexing of the fingers. Another person may consider loose reins as drooped reins where hands may need to be moved several inches to regain contact. When using a shanked bit, however, the horse may understand that it is being signaled when a rider simply takes up some of the weight of the drooped reins.

The meaning of the word “contact” also varies. To some, contact may mean holding the reins in such a way that a slight movement of the hands is felt by the horse. Others may consider contact as holding the reins in such a manner that the rider can feel changes in the horse’s mouth as easily as the horse can feel changes in the rider’s hands.

The sensitivity of the rider’s hands as well as the assumed sensitivity of the horse can effect how much pressure a rider applies on the reins both when the reins are considered “in neutral” and when signals are being applied by the reins. A rider may consider any lessening of tension on the reins as “giving”. The horse may do the same. 

Comparing this to speaking, one may say that he is talking softer if he has been shouting and simply lowers the volume a bit. However, if one is already speaking softly, lowering the voice may mean whispering.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The lightness in terms of pressure on the mouth (or nose) is determined by the hands of the rider and not in the length of the rein


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> The lightness in terms of pressure on the mouth (or nose) is determined by the hands of the rider and not in the length of the rein


True, but a loose rein is also just that, and what I prefer when just trail riding esp, not training, where you do take contact, as needed
Being able to ride a horse on a loose rein, with that horse just packing the bit, denotes, in my opinion, a way higher degree of trust, and having ahorse you can pitch slack to, creates a way more relaxing ride for both the horse and the rider
I ride with a mild curb, most times, so it takes very little hand movement to check a horse when needed, then give him slack again
In fact, i don't want a horse I HAVE to ride with contact, going along a steep trail with a drop off. I want a horse I can give the responsibility to watch his footing


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I can ride a horse with the same pressure on its mouth on a short rein as I can with a long loose rein provided the horse is going in a good self carriage and in its natural head carriage. I never trail ride in anything but a snaffle bit or a bitless bridle as my horses rarely spook at anything on the trails or roads and even when they do they're trained to do not more than a jump on the spot so I have no use for a curb bit


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## Cartiek (Jun 27, 2016)

It is hard to explain with words, I've linked a few youtube videos that may help, though 

I found this guy's accent a bit hard to understand but...





I think this video is going to be the most helpful on HOW to ride on a loose rein, but you can look at the clips to see a loose rein.





Here is a good example of riding on a loose rein.





I wasn't a big help but hopefully these videos can give you an idea of what riding on a loose rein it.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I don't 'need' a curb to trail ride, and could just as well ride in a snaffle, but , since I show western, my senior horses are taught to ride/graduate one handed on a loose rein, and a western curb bit is designed for that
The use of a curb, correctly, western, is not the same as using a curb English
When I do ride English, I use a D ring snaffle, regardless of age of horse,and of course, two hands
One also shows a jr horse, western, in a snaffle, on a loose rein, riding with a bridge, as by the time that jr horse is ready to show, he is well on his way to being ridden one handed in a curb, using that progressive training in a snaffle, posted about before.
If a horse is just packing a bit, with that bit allowing greater signal, hardly matters that the bit is a curb, esp since using a curb correctly, follows that principle of increased signal and finesse. In fact, if your horse is not that 'broke', better ride him out in a snaffle, as it allows the correct taking of the head away better, and many good western trainers, will go back to a snaffle, to fix \holes' or to teach something new.
Many horses also do not really like bittless, esp those that rely on constant pressure under the jaw, never thus giving that true release.
If mechanical hackamores work for you, also great, but they are not in the same class as true non leverage bittless bridles either


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> I can ride a horse with the same pressure on its mouth on a short rein as I can with a long loose rein provided the horse is going in a good self carriage and in its natural head carriage. I never trail ride in anything but a snaffle bit or a bitless bridle as my horses rarely spook at anything on the trails or roads and even when they do they're trained to do not more than a jump on the spot so I have no use for a curb bit


A curb bit, used correctly, is NOT for control!!!!!
I hardly ride my senior trail horses in a curb, because I need it for control, and that is my prime beef of a western curb, used incorrectly-for control, versus because the horse has 'graduated' beyond the snaffle stage, and if a show horse , able to keep topline, collection, rate speed, off of leg and seat alone, through all gaits and maneuvers. He thus graduates to riding one handed in a curb, and if I see a senior western horse ridden two handed in a snaffle, or even a curb, it spells lack of training. It is also why, western, a horse 5 years and older, must be shown one handed in a curb, as he is expected to be trained tot hat level. There are maiden classes , green senior horse classes at some shows, where you are allowed to ride any age horse in a snaffle
I chose to ride in a curb, trail riding,, once a horse is to that degree of training, as a curb is designed to be used on a loose rein and one handed, but have ridden enough jr horses out on trails with snaffles, because they were not ready to be up in a curb
You are using a basis of using a curb English, and not correctly, western, for your stance.
My horses don't get less trained, so as they get older, they need a curb, where before they were ridden with a snaffle!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the sad thing, Smilie, is that a large number of riders DO use the curb for control. they go to the curb becuase the horse has 'no brakes' with only a snaffle.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> the sad thing, Smilie, is that a large number of riders DO use the curb for control. they go to the curb becuase the horse has 'no brakes' with only a snaffle.


I would need to be blind, not to agree with that!

Just to be more clear, on what I was trying to say
If you ride English, two handed, then Kuddos for staying with a snaffle
If you have no interest in showing, then if you wish to leave your western horse bittless or in a snaffle for trail riding, again, good, and personal choice

On the other hand, very wrong to assume those of us that do ride with acurb, on a horse up in a curb,do so for control, and unlike your horses, 'needs' that curb trail riding!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

To me, a loose rein means that, with your hands in neutral position, there is no pressure on the bit at all. Just because of the way I was taught and the way I train, I usually ride on a relatively large drape so that they react to the slight shift in the balance of the bit when I pick up the reins instead of actual pressure being applied.












Even when I shorten my reins to do something like rope, I still have no contact when my hand is down









That said, my horses have been trained that way. Not all horses have. Unless you truly have an interest in reaching for such a goal, then you should ride however you and your horse are comfortable. So long as it doesn't cause the horse distress or pain, then there is no real right or wrong. Everything we do depends on our ultimate goals and desires.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks everybody! I know that since we don't show, it doesn't really matter how I ride my gelding as long as we're happy like that. It was just a question, mainly for the other horses I ride that DO wear bits and I don't know them as well. Also, like others have said, I consider loose reins to have a lot of slack. I trust my gelding enough to lay down on him and let the reins droop without him being tied (all but relinquishing control), so I have no fear when giving him slack on a trail. Whenever I can, I ride with no contact on his mouth/nose, but I know that isn't right for every horse. That's why I was asking, well that and the fact that one day I'm hoping to get into more serious riding (with a saddle, bit (maybe), an actual goal to that ride). Then, this will be much more important to know.


The videos I'm sure will help, and I know it also depends on the horse/rider/bit/discipline. Contact is something I've never really thought about much until now, but I figured I should start so I have a jumpstart when I start riding more seriously. 


Smilie in regards to what you said about a lot of horses not liking to be bitless, I think that depends on how the horse was started/treated in the past. Now I'm not disputing that a lot of horses prefer to have a bit, but many seem to like bitless better. One prime example was a POA my friend use to own that was a camp horse; he was treated roughly with a bit and much preferred bitless. My gelding wasn't mistreated, yet he does much better bitless (although he's fine in a bit), as does another friend's QH and another's TB/QH mix. I think a big thing that a lot of people don't consider is that even though a horse does fine in a bit, they could do better without one, as the horses I mentioned above. I'm not jumping on you or calling you wrong, I am just wondering what horses you're referring to? I know some horses wouldn't like bitless, I just haven't seen many that don't so far and I'm curious. Also you said some of those may be ones that need constant pressure on the chin, what did you mean by that?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes, some horses prefer bittless, esp horses that have been abused with a bit, or were never educated how to respond to one correctly
That was not my point, My point simply was, that some horses also prefer a bit, esp over some bittless bridle that has those cross under straps , as there are horses also, that don't like that constant face pressure SOME bittless bridles use


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

You have to take each horse as an individual and do what works best for them and for you. Most of my horses do equally well in a bit or bitless (I use homemade loping hackamores). However, I have one that drastically prefers his hacks over any style of bit. He will ride in a bit, but he's happier without one. His teeth are good, and he's never been mistreated; I'm the only one that's ever really ridden him.
This hack is a work in progress and isn't complete yet.










However, I also have one horse that is very sensitive and reactive (again, not mistreated since we got him as an unhandled yearling and have done all the training; his bloodlines are very well known in this area for being.....difficult), but will freak completely out with any pressure on his nose/face when riding. He's just fine in a bit but if you try to ride him in a halter, you risk getting yourself hurt.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I have one of each. My mare star-gazes and gape-jaws at the slightest contact on a bit or mechanical hack. She goes fine in a bosal and slack reins, though. My gelding pushes through the bosal (haven't tried a mechanical hack), basically ignoring that pressure on the face. In a snaffle, he's very light and responsive. I inherited the mare's issues when I bought her, and since I only trail ride I haven't seen any reason to try to get her to carry a bit.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

Change said:


> She goes fine in a bosal and slack reins, though.
> 
> 
> ...since I only trail ride I haven't seen any reason to try to get her to carry a bit.





This is my thoughts on it, although I did originally ride this gelding in a bit. He isn't mine, and he's always been ridden in a snaffle bit, so that's what we did to begin with. Part of that was because he'd ignore my cues, and I didn't feel confident riding him bitless because he had a way of going against the pressure on the bit. 


Once we got past the fighting, and were working pretty softly, I decided to try bitless, and he was an ANGEL. He's much happier that way, and we also just trail ride, so why does he need a bit?


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