# Won't Go on Trail by Himself



## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

He is insecure and barn sour. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Even if he gets really unruly, get off him and continue walking away from the barn, going back only let's him win and it will be worse the next time. Start with small away from barn outings. Don't go back until he is under control. Little by little go further away. Change up the ride, go around trees, etc. Keep his mind busy and his body moving forward.


----------



## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

I don't want to be a downer but there is a recent, extensive thread on this very same issue. I don't recall which subforum it is in, but it is here someplace. 

My want to try a couple of different searches.


----------



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

try riding out to where he starts getting nervous, then ride back to the barn and do some trotting and other more intense work, the walk him out on the trail again. Repeat. Also if he starts pulling that stuff again, get off, lunge him untill he feels like listening, then get back on. All out horses ride out by them selves, although some really dont like it. Its a safety thing for us, if one person needs to ride for help because a rider or horse is injured, and the horse wont go, it can be a big problem.


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

I'd of fought until he got too tired to fight back, but there was equipment and fencing he kept getting to close to. I really, really didn't want to let him win. I'll try hopping off and leading him into the trees next time he starts pitching a fit. While I did ride him back, I road him hard and walked all over the place for awhile, so he might of got to go back, but he didn't get to quit working. Ugh, I hope I can fix this. If it gets worse, I'll say something. 

Also, sorry if there was a thread on this. I didn't spot anything right off hand, but y'know, there's probably a dozen threads on every situation ever mentioned on this forum. :/


----------



## Rowdy Girl (Aug 1, 2011)

Have you tried going out on a trail with a buddy and having that buddy slowing move their horse away from you ? If so and he get's nervous, they can come back to you..I would keep at that, this way there is someone there should he get very upset and you do not want to be alone for safety reason's...I would continue this until the other horse is a good distance and your boy is comfortable..


----------



## HanginH (Mar 2, 2012)

Sounds like you got a bit of work on your hands!

As mentioned before I would probably get on and do a bit of warm up work around the barn to get him loosened up first. Then I would really put him to work loping circles, roll backs, back up, lope off turn back again and really get his heart pumping right at the barn. The thing to remember is you need to make the work intense and not a lot of fun for your horse. I don't spend a lot of time just loping in circles either because its not engaging his mind at all so only do three or four circles then stop roll him over his hocks and lope him off the other way. Lope small circles, big circles and just make the barn a work place instead of a place that he knows he will get rest at. 
Once hes worn down a bit break him down into a walk and ride him away from the barn. If he wants to be a jerk and come back to the barn let him and put him straight back to work again then after a bit ride him off from the barn. once he walks off away from the barn just let him relax and don't get into his face or ask a lot of him for now. All you want to do is just get him to associate the barn with work and away from the barn as rest.

I went to a clinic that had a mom and daughter in it with two horse that were inseperalbe buddies because they had been raised together and one never went any where with out the other. The instructer had all of us stand at one end of the arena and the daughter put her horse through some really intense work as described and then rode to the other end of the arena. After about 10 minutes her horse wouldn't hardly look at his buddy because if he did she would put him right back to work. I hadn't seen this done before but it worked like a charm and now i se the same method when I am training rope horses that balk at going into the box.

Hope that helps and rember be safe in what your doing!


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

HanginH said:


> Sounds like you got a bit of work on your hands!
> 
> As mentioned before I would probably get on and do a bit of warm up work around the barn to get him loosened up first. Then I would really put him to work loping circles, roll backs, back up, lope off turn back again and really get his heart pumping right at the barn. The thing to remember is you need to make the work intense and not a lot of fun for your horse. I don't spend a lot of time just loping in circles either because its not engaging his mind at all so only do three or four circles then stop roll him over his hocks and lope him off the other way. Lope small circles, big circles and just make the barn a work place instead of a place that he knows he will get rest at.
> Once hes worn down a bit break him down into a walk and ride him away from the barn. If he wants to be a jerk and come back to the barn let him and put him straight back to work again then after a bit ride him off from the barn. once he walks off away from the barn just let him relax and don't get into his face or ask a lot of him for now. All you want to do is just get him to associate the barn with work and away from the barn as rest.


I really actually like this plan! It sounds good. I think I'll try working him, and putting poles to make him trot over so he really has to use his brain and muscles. He responds well to spinning as a form of saying, "Hey, cooperate!" when in the arena. And boy can that horse spin, too. I'll try it.

Thank you everyone for advice, I'm going to try what's been said thus far and call this "concluded" until I see how things go. Thank you so much to everyone who replied! You all always help me greatly with your wisdom and advices!


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

> All you want to do is just get him to associate the barn with work and away from the barn as rest.


This is what my trainer told me. It's getting the right steps so that your horse finally gets it, "Going back to the barn =work. Moving forward= fun/easy/rewarding. Let's move forward!" Easier said than done of course. 

I only ride out alone on a solid horse who prefers being alone. That's because I'm still a beginner. I ride very close to the barn where my lessons are (I can always see the barn when I'm riding) so it's not like I'm far away, but anyway....

My trainer said there are 3 kinds of trail horses
1) those that will ride alone regardless of their rider
2) those that will ride alone only if the rider is experienced and confident which makes them feel confident 
3) those that are scared to ride alone regardless of their rider. 

for these types of horses she said she will go back and forth between the barn and the trail, slowly getting further away from the barn each time. This way it eases the horse into riding alone and they see that going away from the barn is okay. 

Another trick is to go out with another rider and slowly work on separating, then coming back together. Keep repeating. The idea is for the horse to slowly build confidence in being alone rather than just make him go cold turkey.

I don't know if this a bad idea or not, but one of the women at the barn said that she would give her horse treats during points on the trail. He loved peppermints so he'd get a peppermint for each 1/4 mile or so. He started to associate the trails with being something yummy and said that she could tell his mind was on getting the treat not on being scared. LOL such a horse way of thinking.


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

I'm not a beginner, and (a much needed boost to my ego) my 'boss' said she trusted my riding skills. I felt very flattered, since I've lived and breathed horses my whole life. Again, I've got enough things to try. I'm determined, so it'll happen.


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

two schools of thought on this, 
One way, Make him go out alone no matter what, use a crop, use spurs, or get off and lead him, 
MY walker was a nightmare heading out. Every bit as bad or worse then this. To compund the issue he would spook at anything and everything, andd spin and head back. Or at least he pretended to spook. I think he had a nervous nelly owner that would let him get away with it. and get off him.
I would have to get off and dang near drag him a mile down the trail. Then I got to where I started jogging with him about a mile at the beggining of each ride, then leading him couple hundred yards, now he's fine. Took awhile. He still gets sticky feet the first mile or so. Likes to pretend everything on the trail is gonna eat him so he has to stop in panic mode. He's just faking. 
Second way, let him go back to the barn, then run him till his tounge is hanging out. walk out. if he turns back repeat.


----------



## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

I got fed up with trying to ride my horses away from their corral. 
I just load them in the trailer, take them to a trail. At least then they don't know where their herd mates are or where the feed manager is. So they will listen to me and I have less battles to fight while I get them doing what I expect them to do.

After they have learned to go down a trail by themselves. It's not too hard a battle to get them to ride away from the barn or the group when I'm out on a trail ride or hunting.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Paintedhorse that's a great idea. I've read from a lot of people that their horses are much better behaved when trailered to another location anyway. That's a great way to get them started going out alone.

Joe between the two options you listed, I think #2 is safer. I'm sure there are very experienced horsepeople who could do #1 (just MAKE the horse go) but if a horse is just balking the whole way and a rider has to kick, hit and yell, I think it could escalate into a bad situation.
Personally I think the idea of "back to the barn=more work" vs "going out on the trail=easy" is the better way. I could be wrong. But I'd rather my horse think of the trail as something easy rather than fight with him the entire way. 

I really like the one woman's idea of little treats along the way. Not that it's a good idea to get a horse treat driven. Now he goes out alone with no treats. She said just initially she had to get his mind on something positive and give him something to look forward to and it worked out great. 

Funny how different horses are. The one horse I ride does way better alone. I've ridden him with other horses and it's not good. He wants to be in front, bites at the other horses, seems more jumpy. Like he's a different horse. He's also 20 years old and I think the commotion of other horses just bugs him. I guess it's all what they are used to.


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

After riding him today on the trail with another horse again, the other girl and I have decided it's probably a mix of spring fever and their herd, since they're so conveniently placed on the trail. Yes, out by himself, there's probably some barn sour in there, too. Both of our horses are pastured together, and both threw the biggest fit. We had to fight to get them to go past the pasture. They both crow hopped, bronco-bucked, reared, and just all around gave us hell, but we stayed on and showed 'em who was boss and managed to get out there. Once out there, Butterscotch did well for me, but the mare (Willi) spooked needlessly at everything when she'd done just fine the other day.

I think I'm just gonna have to work him every day I go out there, train us both to know each other, and then I believe he'll eventually do what I want him to. He has wonderful potential, he just needs someone as stubborn as him.

Today, my new friend and I basically MADE those horses go. It was a private rodeo, but hey! That's what makes riding fun when you're beyond beginner, but not yet an expert. I don't show anymore, so I like to ride horses who can keep it interesting but work well once I get them under control.


----------



## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

option #1 doesnt take a great horseman, get off and lead him if he is getting dangerous to be on.
Make him go. If you can do it from the saddle with tools great. If not do it from the ground.


----------



## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Stoddard that's great that you got him out on the trail! Way to go! That's awesome.

I think it's a great idea to work him from the ground and lead him out there if need be. My aunt did that with her horse. She said she spent a few months walking her like a dog on a leash, lol. I just meant it would be dangerous for anyone other than an advanced rider to be out on a trail alone, in the saddle, with a horse that's bucking and rearing and still forcing him to move forward. But Stoddard sounds like a pro so I'm sure she handled it well.


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

LOL, I'm no pro. I'm just a 19 year old who's fallen off enough times to know how to stay on. I'm going to use both the force of moving forward and simply leading him in and see where it goes. He seems smart, so this will all be very interesting. I'm not going to give into him and walk out there every time, but I'm not going to spend every ride irritating him.


----------



## jennyandjesse (Oct 20, 2011)

It hasn't been mentioned here, but my horse would go down the trail just fine and then stop. Nothing, I mean nothing would get him to go on, not one step further. I would be stubborn too, get off and walk him to the destination.

I took him to a horse breeder who gave me the BEST advice. The horse wants to go to the barn because that's where the reward is. The reward may be as simple as getting that darn saddle and you off his back. So the trick is to reward him on the trail. This simply means get off and pet him, then continue on. Of course this is easier said than done, but once you start, the horse will look forward to that reward and WANT to go! I used to get off my horse and just let him graze. She suggested a hand full of grain. 

Another thing she told me to try is to go for a short ride and then work his butt off when you return. That way he doesn't associate going home with not working. ANNNDDDDD I have read that you shouldn't take the saddle off in the same spot all the time. They get used to the routine and know that the cross ties, hitching post whatever means that darn saddle is off. I took my horse into the pasture a few times and took his saddle off. It was so funny because he kept looking back like, "mom, what aaarrreee you doing? the post is back there! I NEVER wear this thing in here" I also rode him in th pasture so no relief there.

Keep things new and fresh. Walk him with a lead on the way out, give him a treat, ride him home and work the snot out of him. I wish you luck, and oh, HAVE FUN!


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

jennyandjesse said:


> It hasn't been mentioned here, but my horse would go down the trail just fine and then stop. Nothing, I mean nothing would get him to go on, not one step further. I would be stubborn too, get off and walk him to the destination.
> 
> I took him to a horse breeder who gave me the BEST advice. The horse wants to go to the barn because that's where the reward is. The reward may be as simple as getting that darn saddle and you off his back. So the trick is to reward him on the trail. This simply means get off and pet him, then continue on. Of course this is easier said than done, but once you start, the horse will look forward to that reward and WANT to go! I used to get off my horse and just let him graze. She suggested a hand full of grain.
> 
> ...


Well, I can't just take him out to his pasture and ride him there. Not exactly appropriate in my situation. But I intend to work on it one way or another, even if I have to simply take him for walks like a dog out there via halter, lead, and heel-toe express. I'll get him there. I'm determined. I'll probably try carrots and apple nuggets to encourage that going on the trail can be fun. He's also been separated from his "herd," so maybe it'll eventually take some edge from his separation anxiety.


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Did you try the drunken sailor walk? The key for my horse was taking him a few steps past his comfort area each day. The problem was getting him to take those steps. We did it with drunken sailor walk. 

When you get to that place where he won't go anymore forward, take both your legs off, or rather leave them hanging gently at his sides. Then take one rein at a time and get him to follow his nose. He'll take a few steps to one side, then drop that rein, pick up the other, and he'll wander in that way. The resulting S shaped walk will result in forward motion. Somehow the alternating reins seems to get their mind more focused on the rider too which is always nice. Try it. Nothing to lose!


----------



## jennyandjesse (Oct 20, 2011)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Did you try the drunken sailor walk? The key for my horse was taking him a few steps past his comfort area each day. The problem was getting him to take those steps. We did it with drunken sailor walk.
> 
> When you get to that place where he won't go anymore forward, take both your legs off, or rather leave them hanging gently at his sides. Then take one rein at a time and get him to follow his nose. He'll take a few steps to one side, then drop that rein, pick up the other, and he'll wander in that way. The resulting S shaped walk will result in forward motion. Somehow the alternating reins seems to get their mind more focused on the rider too which is always nice. Try it. Nothing to lose!


ooohhh I like this! I can't wait to try it!


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I forget which trainer to credit. I saw either Chris Cox or John Lyons do it. I had immediate success with it. The horse doesn't even seem to know he's moving forward. It's great!


----------



## jennyandjesse (Oct 20, 2011)

Probably was Chris because I watched all John's tapes and he's the one who does the circling. I will try anything once or twice!


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Did you try the drunken sailor walk? The key for my horse was taking him a few steps past his comfort area each day. The problem was getting him to take those steps. We did it with drunken sailor walk.
> 
> When you get to that place where he won't go anymore forward, take both your legs off, or rather leave them hanging gently at his sides. Then take one rein at a time and get him to follow his nose. He'll take a few steps to one side, then drop that rein, pick up the other, and he'll wander in that way. The resulting S shaped walk will result in forward motion. Somehow the alternating reins seems to get their mind more focused on the rider too which is always nice. Try it. Nothing to lose!


I can definitely do nothing more than try. When I attempted to regain control with circling, all he did was... well, still manage to make his way home! As hilarious as it was, it was incredibly frustrating. We've been out on the trail since with another, but I haven't been able to gain the time to take him alone.


----------



## jennyandjesse (Oct 20, 2011)

Have you tried treating him at the destination point? As I mentioned it might help to reward him on the trail with something, maybe nothing more than just getting off.

I understand your frustration. I'm glad my guy doesn't do that any more. I hate to admit that all it took was one flick of the reins on his hind end and he knew I wasn't putting up with it any longer. I wish you luck!


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

jennyandjesse said:


> Have you tried treating him at the destination point? As I mentioned it might help to reward him on the trail with something, maybe nothing more than just getting off.
> 
> I understand your frustration. I'm glad my guy doesn't do that any more. I hate to admit that all it took was one flick of the reins on his hind end and he knew I wasn't putting up with it any longer. I wish you luck!


I wish that's all it took. But no, I haven't. I have discovered he'll follow me anywhere when I'm on foot (have not tried it on trail).


----------



## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I had a horse that really didn't want to go off by herself.
I tried the treat at the end of the trail thing. As soon as we got as far as I was planning to ride, I would get off and give her a treat. It seemed like a wonderful idea; however, it really didn't work that well. She kept on refusing. I never did get that horse to do all that great at riding off by herself. She was so gentle that I ended up using her for my "company" horse. She would follow my other horse anywhere. She just hated to lead the way.


----------



## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I think you should do more groundwork and gain more respect and trust from him. Going out alone is unnatural and it's very scary for some horses. Their instincts tell them to stay with the herd because they are easy prey otherwise. It doesn't sound like he believes that you are the leader and will take care of him. Handwalking him along some trails may be a good idea too.


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

DancingArabian: I just finished a book by Chris Irwin about horses that said to gain respect and trust. I'm actually planning to learn how to teach groundwork, then teach him. I know how to round pen a horse, I just don't know how to start one into learning how to work in one.


----------

