# Saddlebreds?



## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Some saddlebreds can be taught to rack, and really, you need a LOT of training before you can teach one. You at least need to have ridden a few five gaited horses, and probably even a few five gaited horses with problems, just so that you can get the feel for what it is. You need a great deal of training yourself before you can successfully train one to rack. You need to ride gaited horses that will cheat you, ones that you have to work for, and you need to be coached by someone who knows how to do it. It is not something that can be accomplished in a couple weeks or a month of training. This takes a VERY long time of VERY short sessions. 

My advice is to send your horse to a saddlebred trainer for evaluation and training for a few months. 

Here are a couple things that might help you. 
Getting the first steps. How a young Saddlebred is taught to rack.
Here is a good video from one of the best.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Also, just reread the OP, at the rack, ideally, one foot should be on the ground at a time, as seen here:









Granted, this horse is a WGC Five Gaited horse. Most don't look like him.


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

Thank you! How do saddlebreds get their tails up like the one in your pic? Is it cut that way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

jewelerin74 said:


> Thank you! How do saddlebreds get their tails up like the one in your pic? Is it cut that way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They have the muscles/nerves? that hold the tail down nicked to weakened them, then the horse wears a tail set, it looks like a harness but has a metal piece that goes under the tail to pull it up & keep it up.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

It is just easier to copy/paste from past responses, so here we go. 

Some are hand stretched, some are in "humane braces" where the high tail is just a piece of wire and a "cap" or wig, but most of them require a simple surgical procedure. They are put in a harness that is specifically fit to each horse. At first, several weeks before the surgery, they are put in a bustle which is a really thick crupper to help loosen the muscles and to ensure that the horse will even tolerate wearing the set(You don't want to find this out the day after surgery). After a few weeks of wearing the bustle and hand stretching, a vet comes out and does a simple procedure where the muscles that allow the horse to clamp their tail down with force are nicked. When they heal, the horse still has full use of his tail, they just cannot clamp down with force. It also makes the tail loose enough to be put in a brace for the show ring creating that aforementioned balanced look. 

It is purely for fashion now. Not necessary, and they require an absurd amount of care during healing. Every effort is made before, during, and after the surgery to make sure the horse is comfortable and pain free in order to protect the tail. A horse in discomfort will rub his tail, pull his set off, of find some othe way to try to rid himself of the discomfort which will obliterate the tail and cause the horse greater pain. When this happens, often the damage is irreparable. They are pampered, and carefully tended every day until they are fully healed. 

Once the procedure is complete, the horse does not need to wear his set 24/7. Show horses only wear their sets a week or two before a show. In the off season, the sets come off. So do the shoes.

It is legal in every division to show with a natural tail, and some horse shows, including the World Championships have added several natural tail classes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

Thank you! I don't know much about the breed and one of my rescues happen to be one. It seems like its a lot to teach her to rack so she wont be learning it in the near future but I sure do enjoy learning all these things! I always thought it was cool that they were up like that and I always wondered why mine didnt lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

jewelerin74 said:


> Thank you! How do saddlebreds get their tails up like the one in your pic? Is it cut that way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They will put their tails up naturally. For the show industry people do things to facilitate the tail being up, but you can see even part Saddlebreds, like my Georgian Grande, will often lift their tails upright.

I never have a camera when they do it (I never have a camera with me when they don't do it :lol, but someone who was watching them run around one day sent me a picture with my then filly's tail almost upright. Someday I might have a camera and manage to catch a photo while she has it up like a flagpole. She does most times when she's running around, but doesn't keep it up constantly whereas her older cousin almost never does it.

Some horses just like doing it.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Oh yeah boy! Get them wound up and feeling good and up go their tails.... Usually followed by a SNORT. Lol! I love Saddlebreds!

Generally speaking, if the horse doesn't look like it is going to be cut out for the five haired division, it is not taught to rack. Why waste months of training time to teach them something they won't need? And same with the tails. If they don't look like they are going to be show horses, they aren't going to take the time, money, and energy to have the tail cut.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

That is funny. I have zero interest in hunters and several other styles. I wouldn't insult them or those who love them though.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Oh BLECK! Look at this disgusting creature. Isn't he just hideous. That wild, inquisitive eye, long arched neck, near perfect blaze, good size, good bone and you know I never did care for black horses. And to think this colt trots level barefoot. Who would ever want a creature like this?









Oh god, here is another. What is that silver running though his coat? Grays are the worst. They show off all the wrong features. He holds himself far too proud. 
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395524_10150557622636290_343301425_n.jpg

Ahh! Make it stop! My eyes!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/253388_10151375996381290_1379719573_n.jpg

Ew! Gross! What is that girl doing? Wait... that is me from about 8 years ago... Holy cow, has it been that long? 
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/199_11583346289_1204_n.jpg

Let us try to not be so blatantly hateful when it comes to things other people love. It is uncalled for and unnecessary. Hooray for you. You love something different. I would never call your horses "Gross".


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

Isn't hunters an english saddle? I have no interest in doing that. I love western and will stick with it. Makes me feel like i'm in the old western movies lol. But I do not think saddlebreds are ugly. I appsolutely adore mine. I agree some breeds are not to my liking. But never look a gifted horse in the mouth. She was gaven to me. And I wouldn't change a thing even if she was ugly. Because she is my old lady and that is really pretty how that horse holds up it's tail! She holds hers up but not like that. And I suspect she had some training in the past because when I ride her she puts in her nose to her neck. And I think she may have been a barrel racer. Her last owners said the owners before believed she use to be a race horse!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Do you have any pictures of your girl? I would LOVE to see her!


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## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

EqQueen97 said:


> Gross... Saddlebreds never appealed to me. Hunters are the way to go. Select a nice Dutch WB, Hanovarian, Swedish WB, etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That was ridiculously uncalled for. If you don't like Saddlebreds, that's you own issue. Nobody said you had to read this thread. How would you feel if I went around calling your horses gross, and about how mine is so much better? The thoughtlessness of some people. I don't like Arabs, but I don't find threads about them and go on about how awful they are. 

On a side note... LadyDreamer your response post made me LOL.


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

I love your post LadyDreamer! And I do put I have no idea how to put them on from my phone. I do have another post asking her breed actually and there is a picture of her there! I will try and figure it out tho!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Oh, pretty girl! I found her. 

I hope this isn't too terribly confusing. It probably depends on what type of phone you are using too. LOL!

What I do when I am on my phone, to attach photos you need to click FULL SITE when you are in the thread and ready to reply. Click POST REPLY(you may have to reclick full site). Then after you write your reply and all that good stuff, a section right below the main text box will say "Manage Attachments". Click that. It will open a new window, select your file. Wait for it to upload, and then go back to the reply window. You should see "1 attachment" where the "manage attachments" selection is. When you post, we should get it. 

Or just make sure when you reply you have the *[ img] *url here *[ /img] * brackets around your url, minus the spaces.


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

Mobile Photobucket

There is a few of her in this. This was after a few days when we got her. She is one of our rescues and we have now had her and her sister for 4 weeks. We didn't have time to get their feet done right away but a few days after these pictures they were. Just figured I would mention that before hateful comments about the feet being neglected. But trust me they are not I just have to share that even threw all the things she and her sister that I rescued with her have been through, they have the best personalities and you almost cant tell they were neglected! And I apsolutely adore your saddlebred!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

LadyDreamer said:


> Oh BLECK! Look at this disgusting creature. Isn't he just hideous. That wild, inquisitive eye, long arched neck, near perfect blaze, good size, good bone and you know I never did care for black horses. And to think this colt trots level barefoot. Who would ever want a creature like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You know... I have really learned to l like you because of your caring, sensitive posts. It is for that reason that I am willing to take that "gross" looking horse off of your hands. Please send that colt to me immediately as I wish you to not suffer another day of gazing upon him. 

One word... Beautiful!  Guess some folks just don't know what Beautiful really is.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

LadyDreamer said:


> Some saddlebreds can be taught to rack, and really, you need a LOT of training before you can teach one. You at least need to have ridden a few five gaited horses, and probably even a few five gaited horses with problems, just so that you can get the feel for what it is. You need a great deal of training yourself before you can successfully train one to rack. You need to ride gaited horses that will cheat you, ones that you have to work for, and you need to be coached by someone who knows how to do it. It is not something that can be accomplished in a couple weeks or a month of training. This takes a VERY long time of VERY short sessions.
> 
> My advice is to send your horse to a saddlebred trainer for evaluation and training for a few months.
> 
> ...


This man is without a doubt someone you do NOT want to take any tips from. He is basically clueless and is a laughing stock to boot.

I saw all I needed to know about how much is doesn't know on his tailset video. No wonder his tail feathers look as crappy as they do, he is an idiot.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

LadyDreamer said:


> It is just easier to copy/paste from past responses, so here we go.
> 
> Some are hand stretched, some are in "humane braces" where the high tail is just a piece of wire and a "cap" or wig, but most of them require a simple surgical procedure. They are put in a harness that is specifically fit to each horse. At first, several weeks before the surgery, they are put in a bustle which is a really thick crupper to help loosen the muscles and to ensure that the horse will even tolerate wearing the set(You don't want to find this out the day after surgery). After a few weeks of wearing the bustle and hand stretching, a vet comes out and does a simple procedure where the muscles that allow the horse to clamp their tail down with force are nicked. When they heal, the horse still has full use of his tail, they just cannot clamp down with force. It also makes the tail loose enough to be put in a brace for the show ring creating that aforementioned balanced look.
> 
> ...


I don't know what barn you are at or where this garbage came from, but tailsets on a set horse are not pulled during 'off season', and darn sure don't just wear them week or two before show either. The only time they won't be wearing them if they are a set horse is when being worked.

And it is a tailset not a harness.

And most of them will do just fine being started with bustle and moved up into crupper, no need to cut one. 

As for not being able to clamp down? I can assure you that the few horses that had had to have tail worked on could clamp them down just fine and dandy.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, now I'm bummed! Inga beat me to the offer of hiding all those sad looking creatures that LadyDreamer posted. Grab them and hide them from view, by all means.
I have a mare that got a fair amount of "pretty" from her Arab dam but the Saddlebred sire gave her stately. The Saddlebred is an impressive breed.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

jewelerin74 said:


> Can Saddlebreds rack? I believe thats what its called. Where one leg goes up while the other three are on the ground. And if so how do I teach mine to?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A rack is one leg down, others off ground. Running walk would be more what you are thinking of, or an amble?

Does your horse do it in the field or arena? Does it have a loose look when walking, sort of a swing to the movement?

Does it trot well?

If you have seen it hit a lick at liberty, then not rocket science to work on getting it out of horse.

Use snaffle, smooth one here at first.

First though, you need to have a cue for trot...bring legs onto horse, and bring hands up and narrow in front of you as you squeeze with calves. You can use verbal cue, but don't overdo it, and only use at beginning after you have given aids.

Once trot is solid? Then from a trot....teach these cues to let horse know what you are asking for.

To rack, keep hands low and spread wide...and take deeper seat and open legs off of horse. Keep horse moving forwards with clucks if needed, use legs on horse sparingly during this. 

You might need, if you can feel horse is not settling into gait, to very very lightly "shake" head. You do this by alternating the use of your pinky finger to "pluck" first one rein, and then the other.

Notice I wrote ALTERNATE this...that means you pluck right rein, and then left rein. Not both at same time.

You want to get a little shake at mouth. Don't saw on reins either. 

You want to get horse to shake head, which will be felt in shoulders, seat and shimmy in your body. And don't mean shake as in shaking flies off, this is very very subtle movement.

And the MINUTE you "feel it in your seat" quit any plucking of either rein. Let horse move forwards, don't pull back at all. Don't close hands or legs. Low and wide in hands, off in legs.

Again...the force of the plucking is very very light. Hold your hands above your keyboard, forefingers just above J and F key, and no other fingers touching either...then lightly reach out with pinkies and flick pinky at the enter and the caps lock. 

The lighter you keep your cues, the lighter the horse will be.

If horse has been seen to settle into a gait at liberty...but seems resistant to it, you can use bracelet on diagonals, LF RH or RF LH to throw off the beat of the trot which will "shake" one.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Palomine said:


> This man is without a doubt someone you do NOT want to take any tips from. He is basically clueless and is a laughing stock to boot.
> 
> I saw all I needed to know about how much is doesn't know on his tailset video. No wonder his tail feathers look as crappy as they do, he is an idiot.


Clearly, you have never met this man or his family. That man is one of the best. 

As for the tail set, to an outsider, comparing it to a harness is accurate. No, you are not going to hook one to the jog cart. It was for comparison purposes only. And really it kind of is a harness. You have a breast strap, a surcingle, a crupper. You have the main components of a harness, however the function is completely different. 

Where I get my information is a lifetime of experience growing up in a competitive show barn, and by talking to and visiting and working in many different barns. I get my information from my personal experiences and from people who are more experienced than me. I do, in fact, know that with the sets come off with the show shoes in many many barns.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Palomine said:


> A rack is one leg down, others off ground. Running walk would be more what you are thinking of, or an amble?
> 
> Does your horse do it in the field or arena? Does it have a loose look when walking, sort of a swing to the movement?
> 
> ...


This will only work if this American Saddlebred has been previously trained to rack. This will not work for a person with no experience trying to _teach_ the horse to rack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

Lol I love how that person deleted the comment! Unless I just didnt look hard enough and skipped over it. And the horses she named off, i'm not a horse breed expert but they nearly looked the same as a saddlebred. But hey, if she is willing to buy me all the needed tack, and the horse, pay for the shipping, and farrier and vet expenses, and for more hay, (because there is no way I am getting rid of my lady!) Then I would be glad to have one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> Do you have any pictures of your girl? I would LOVE to see her!












This is my friend riding her at her old house but i love this one!


















Me and Blue back at her old home


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Oh she is cute as a button! Do you know an approximate age of her or her history? Where she might have been raised? Rumors of a registered name?


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

LadyDreamer said:


> Oh BLECK! Look at this disgusting creature. Isn't he just hideous. That wild, inquisitive eye, long arched neck, near perfect blaze, good size, good bone and you know I never did care for black horses. And to think this colt trots level barefoot. Who would ever want a creature like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL, you're really not helping your cause any.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I don't know why you want to pick another fight. If you don't think they are attractive, don't comment. That response wa to the recently banned member saying they were gross. Clearly, I think those are beautiful horses. 

I also think the OPs little mare is adorable.


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> Oh she is cute as a button! Do you know an approximate age of her or her history? Where she might have been raised? Rumors of a registered name?


I got her and her sister knowing nothing about them. The people I got her from was told she was in her 20's but they gave them 2 different numbers. I actually have a thread with pictures of her teeth asking how old. But working with her she seems like she had some show experience. Maybe some barrel racing too. Her breed was a guess between a saddlebred or an arabian mix. The people I got them from said they thought she might have been an old racehorse. I have no idea if she was ever registered either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> I also think the OPs little mare is adorable.


Thank you! American Saddlebreds are beautiful! And I feel blessed haveing one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

LadyDreamer said:


> If you don't think they are attractive, don't comment.


See, that's exactly my problem. That old rule about not saying anything if you don't have anything nice to say is for children. Adults should be able to handle the fact that not everyone likes the things they like.

See my username? PONYboy. I love ponies. But any time that topic comes up all I hear about is how evil they are etc. They are the only type of horse that it's politically correct to hate. But that's okay because I'm a big boy and I can handle it... Plus if no one else likes them it means more ponies for me, lol. I'm a fan of free speech so I'm not going to tell people they shouldn't voice their opinion just because I don't like it.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Good for you! I would never come onto your threads and say "How could anyone find that pony attractive?" I would probably compliment you on your ponies, because you are proud of them and you like them, regardless of my preference in ponies. 

I can only say ill things about hackneys, because I know them. They all have some screws loose. I have met some good ones and the only time I have shown at the World Championships was a little hackney mare who took very good care of me in an 18 pony class. But other than our little spotted pony-thing that we had for my nephews when they were little, I have no overwhelming desire to own them. 

I am VERY glad that you like ponies. We all need something to enjoy. That is why there are so many breeds and so many disciplines. Not everyone likes every breed. 

I have friends of many breeds. Quarter horses, thoroughbreds, Arabians, various ponies, Rocky Mountain horses, and others. While I wouldn't choose their horses over mine, and they wouldn't choose my horses over theirs, we are still respectful of each others choices, supportive of each others successes, and are friendly towards each other when talking horses. It is why we are friends. I do not become friends with people who snub me, insult me, or try to make me feel bad for my breed. 

*I just don't see a point in trying to pick a fight. It is unnecessary and uncalled for. * If you don't like them, great! You don't _have_ to come in speaking ill of something. What happened to: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all? 

I love my breed of choice and I am defensive of them. I apologize for being more vocal in defense of my breed than you are of your ponies, but that is how I am. When I hear misinformation and insults thrown at my breed of choice I will defend them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Oh, brother.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

LadyDreamer said:


> I love my breed of choice and I am defensive of them. I apologize for being more vocal in defense of my breed than you are of your ponies, but that is how I am. When I hear misinformation and insults thrown at my breed of choice I will defend them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tried to stay out of this round of "I hate Saddlebreds" threads but I just wanted to add that often in these threads the insults are not just tossed at the horses but at the horsewomen and men. the comments about cruelty in the Saddlebred world are directed at the people who own them, ride them and love them. One of those people is me. I however, am NOT cruel to my horses, never have been (unless you consider dressing your horses up for events cruel) and would never be. I think OFTEN information is taken out of context and it is thrown around in these threads as though cruelty is fact for all Saddlebreds. That couldn't be further from the truth. A few people defend this breed because they love it and they have that right to do so as much as those who feel some need to smash them down as often as they can. I am just so sick of these types of threads. 

Are there a lot of threads out there saying "this breed or that breed should be illegal because of the cruelty?" It seems there is an inordinant amount directed toward Saddlebreds.


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## thatkrayz (Apr 3, 2013)

*Just to show her off. *

Interesting. I have been reading a lot of the Saddlebred threads this week. I bought my first Saddlebred 4 months ago. I'm a hunter/jumper who has only ever owned Thoroughbreds. I was, easily put, very biased when I started shopping. When setting out to buy my post-college horse, I was dead set on another TB. However, this sweet lady below won me over in only one meeting. She is the brightest, most affectionate horse at the barn. And while she might be too smart for her own good, or maybe just mine, she makes me laugh on an almost daily basis. How can anyone not love a horse that has so much personality? Regardless of breed. Looking back, I still adore my past thoroughbreds. Especially for their athleticism. But I could not be happier that I took a chance on going outside of my norm, and buying a Saddlebred. And, she jumps!  I couldn't ask for more. <3


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

Saddlebreds are one breed that I have found really want to please their owners. Not saying other breeds don't also, but my girl thrives on learning things and doing them correctly. 
At any given time I can walk in the paddock whistle and she is first to meet me with a kiss to the cheek and a hug. She is trained with voice commands and she knows what is work and what is play. Of course I love my Haffie and Gypsy Cob also 

OP your mare is lovely you are going to have so much fun with her.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

jewelerin74 said:


> This is my friend riding her at her old house but i love this one!


Is that a little bit of white on the inside left hind?


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> Is that a little bit of white on the inside left hind?


Yes it is. She has tiny slivers showing on all her legs right above the hooves. Otherwise she is all sorrel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jewelerin74 (Jun 30, 2013)

Other then the white in the face lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

LadyDreamer said:


> Clearly, you have never met this man or his family. That man is one of the best.
> 
> As for the tail set, to an outsider, comparing it to a harness is accurate. No, you are not going to hook one to the jog cart. It was for comparison purposes only. And really it kind of is a harness. You have a breast strap, a surcingle, a crupper. You have the main components of a harness, however the function is completely different.
> 
> ...


The man's family is well thought of. He is thought of as a laughing stock.

The tailset video of his, as well as the others? Show that clearly.

And our horses wore their tailsets and show shoes, they were not pulled or removed during the winter, nor was any barn doing that that I know of.

Maybe in your experience it was? But not in mine.

Incidentally, what barn did you grow up in? Where at? What trainers did you work for, or did you show? What circuit did you follow? Who were the trainers you worked for?


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

LadyDreamer said:


> This will only work if this American Saddlebred has been previously trained to rack. This will not work for a person with no experience trying to _teach_ the horse to rack.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Someone with no experience may have a harder time with a Saddler that has never been racked with rider up, but it can still be done. Idiots do it all the time with no clue as to what they are doing, on horses that have never racked under saddle.

All they need to do is to work on differing cues to differentiate between trot and rack, keep those separate, and go from there.


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