# New Hampshire- Hearings on proposed rules



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Are we going to have to carry it off the property, too??? Good Luck, NH, wish I could be there for support. You would probably want to duct tape my mouth shut, however!

Nancy


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm waiting to fire off a letter. Keeps coming off too snarly.

If my horse drops a bomb on a playground I'm fine with picking it up but if I ride 10 miles out into nothing...

I've already decided that if it does come to pass my property will be closed to their beloved snowmobiles. I have a major corridor pass through my place and the snowmobile club is directly across the street. It will add 32 miles to the trip around the clubs trails.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

You should have a big map that shows that printed up for the meeting! 

I have been meaning to be nosy and ask...Is your DH a driving judge?

Nancy


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

My husband is a truck driver who barely knows how to untangle a harness. I did most of the tacking up when we had drafts.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Horse owners say state rules will leave them on unhappy trails | New Hampshire Animals


*Horse owners say state rules will leave them on unhappy trails*

 ​ By NANCY BEAN FOSTER
Union Leader Correspondent 
 
Sophia Weeks of Goffstown, with her horse Rio, isn't happy about proposed changes to rules regarding riding trails on state land. (NANCY BEAN FOSTER/Union Leader Correspondent) 
 
GOFFSTOWN --- Proposed changes to rules regarding horseback riding on state-owned land have the equestrian community pulling against the reins of what they consider unfair and unnecessary regulations. But the Department of Resources and Economic Development says the rules have always been in place — they're just being clarified.

Sophia Weeks of Goffstown travels to places like Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown or Lake Massabesic to ride her horse, Rio, on the trails. 

"Horses need to get out of the ring and ride on the trails. It's natural for them," said Weeks. "And now we're being told we can't use the trails."

But Amy Bassett, public information and outreach specialist for the department, said that while the language of the rules may be changing, the substance is not. 

"There's a misunderstanding of the rules," said Bassett. "Clarification is key."

Attorney Patricia Morris, whose practice focuses on laws regarding animals, said there are several elements of the rules that concern her and other riders. 

Currently, the department's rules state that riding is limited to blazed, road-width trails unless otherwise posted.

The new rules would limit riders to hardened trails that must be at least eight feet wide. 

By limiting the width and condition of trails, and requiring that the trails be posted, the state is essentially eliminating a large percentage of trails available to riders, Morris said.

Riders would also only be allowed to travel on trails specifically posted for equestrian use, Morris said, despite the fact that state law allows people to use trails everywhere for various forms of recreation unless otherwise posted.

Folks who drive horses using carriages would be banned from all state trails without specific approval. 

But Bassett said horses have always been required to use road-width trails; the department is simply establishing what road-width means. Bassett said the rule isn't intended to limit riders.

"We're not saying that's the only place they can ride," said Bassett. "They can ride anywhere else it's posted for equestrian use." 

*Manure cleanup*

Another change to the rules stipulates that owners of horses using the trails or beaches would be responsible for picking up their horse's manure.

Currently, according to the department, the rule states that hay or manure can't be disposed of on state property.

Bassett said there's always been a regulation regarding the disposal of animal waste, but it hasn't been listed specifically under the section in the rules that applies to horses.

"Now it's being called out in the horse section," said Bassett. 

The requirement to carry out manure poses both logistical and safety issues, Morris said. In order to pick up manure, a rider has to get off the horse, let go of the reins, and somehow transport eight to ten pounds of waste safely out of the parks. Moving the manure off the trail might be a reasonable option, said Morris, but requiring a carry-out policy just doesn't make sense.

Equestrian Michael Williams of Stoney Brook Farm in Chichester, said that, according to the new rules, if the regulations aren't followed by everyone, the trails will be closed to all riders. 

According to the department, the new rule states: The department may prohibit horses and other work animals in areas where such animals are permitted when the department determines there is a lack of compliance to this section by animal owners, or there is concern for public health and safety or resource protection.

Bassett said the department has always had the ability to restrict access or usage of state land to anyone when there are health or safety issues at play.

"We're not talking just about horses," said Bassett.

*Bad for business*

Heather Evans, owner of Follow Your Dreams Farm in Derry, said that having direct access to the Rockingham Rail Trail is a big draw for her fledgling business; losing the right to ride would hinder her farm's growth.

Equestrian Heather Tower said that folks who travel from out of state to ride the trails buy gas, stop for meals, and spend money in other ways while visiting. Limiting the trails would limit that income for many businesses, she said.

"People come from Maine, Vermont and Massachusetts to ride our trails in New Hampshire. They create revenue," said Tower. "I don't think the state is thinking about that." 

Equestrian Patricia Koschek said the financial ramifications of the proposed changes would also affect the sale of horse properties throughout the state, and would reduce the income of businesses that sell equipment and supplies for horses.

"I think it's just crazy," said Tower.

_[email protected]_


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

SueNH said:


> My husband is a truck driver who barely knows how to untangle a harness. I did most of the tacking up when we had drafts.


OK, that clears that up!!

Nancy


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Rules could change for fishing and horse riding on state lands | Concord Monitor

* Rules could change for fishing and horse riding on state lands *



Judy Lessels of Pembroke puts a bridle on her Haflinger draft horse Mischka before taking a cart ride at Concord Equestrian Center on Sunday, September 29, 2013. Lessels says she and Mischka frequent Bear Brook State Park but would no longer be able to do so if the rule changes proposed by DRED take effect. â€œThey have special places that the trailers can park, and I know of no one who does not clean up after themselves or their horses.â€ Lessels said.

(WILL PARSON / Monitor staff)
 







By ANNMARIE TIMMINS
Monitor staff
Monday, September 30, 2013 
(Published in print: Monday, September 30, 2013) 

The state has proposed several rule changes for state parks and lands that will, among other things, limit fishing hours on state beaches, allow pets on more hiking trails and, most controversially, potentially limit the number of horse-riding trails.
Tomorrow through Oct. 10, the public can comment on the proposed rule changes at a series of public hearings; tomorrow’s hearing will be held at 1 p.m. at the state Department of Resources and Economic Development at 172 Pembroke Road. 
Comments will also be accepted by mail until Oct. 24.
There are many items among the nearly 125 proposed rule changes, though many are minor housekeeping revisions. The department hasn’t updated its rules for several years, said spokeswoman Amy Bassett. She is encouraging the public to weigh in.
“That’s why these public hearings are so good,” she said. “They can come voice their opinion, and that feedback goes back into the final (rule) writing.”

So far, horse owners have raised the most concerns, Bassett said. Kelly Normandeau of Concord, Patricia Morris of Center Barnstead and Hannah Howard of Salisbury are among them. They dislike two proposed changes in particular: 
∎ Horse owners would be required to clean up manure left on trails as well as manure dropped in parking lots, on beaches and in parks. Bassett said this is already a requirement. She said the department is simply reorganizing its rules to put horse-related rules in one place.
∎ Horses could be ridden only on state-owned trails that were at least 8 feet wide and made of a hardened surface or on smaller trails that were posted open to horses. Currently horses can be ridden on any state-owned trail unless it’s posted as closed. Bassett said this isn’t really a change either, but horse owners vehemently disagree.
Horses could still be ridden on Hampton Beach, from Oct. 1 through April 30.
“You are disenfranchising a large amount of the tax-paying population from using these trails,” Howard said. She said the change would eliminate some of the trails she uses at Bear Brook State Park because they are narrower than 8 feet wide. “Why would you do that? If we don’t have the trails accessible, we will move to a place where it’s friendly to ride.”
Kelly Normandeau, owner of the Concord Equestrian Center in Concord, agrees.
“As citizens of the state of New Hampshire, the trails should be available to everybody,” Normandeau said. “They are trying to limit the use. As a taxpayer, my tax money goes toward keeping these parks open, so I think it discriminatory to try to limit their use.”
Morris, an attorney who practices animal law, said the manure removal requirement on trails is unsafe.
“I have no problem saying we have to clean up the campgrounds, parking lots, play areas and trail heads,” she said. “But if we are on a trail and we are required to dismount at the time (a horse drops manure), it will create a hazard for people on the trail, for other trail riders and for the horses.”
Morris said if a horse is spooked on the trail, it’s much safer to control the horse from atop it, not from the ground. She and other horse owners also noted that horse manure is biodegradable. 

Bassett said the rule about horse waste would not require horse riders to pack the manure out, as some horse riders have said. It would instead require horse owners to kick the manure off the trail, she said. But requiring that manure be removed isn’t really a change, Bassett said.
The existing rule governing animal waste reads, “Animal owners shall clean up waste eliminated by their animal or animals from public traffic areas, such as trails and walkways, play  areas and fields, campgrounds, and parking lots.”
That rule would still exist, but there would be a second mention of waste removal under a new section just for horses. It would read: “Owners shall clean up all waste eliminated by their horse(s) or other work animal from public traffic areas, including all trails, multiuse trails and walkways, play areas and lawns and fields, campgrounds, beaches, and parking lots on DRED properties.”
Morris and Howard said horse owners and horse-riding groups have always been careful to clean up waste left in more public areas such as parking lots. But they’ve never seen manure removal on the trail required or enforced. “That’s unrealistic and problematic,” Howard said.
The distinction between where horses can and can’t be ridden on state-owned property would be a bigger change, horse owners said.
Currently, horse riders can go on “all road-width, blazed trails unless closed by posting.” Road-width was never defined, so horse owners have gone on all trails regardless of the width, unless there was a sign prohibiting horses.
The proposed rule changes would define a road-width trail as being a minimum of 8 feet wide with a hardened surface. The proposed change would also reverse the current assumption that state-owned trails are open to horses unless otherwise posted. Horse riders could travel more narrow trails only if there was a sign saying the trail allowed horse riding.
Bassett said “the ultimate goal is to post signs” on the many narrower trails used now so that they too are available. She said the state would prefer to post trails as open than notice the trails as closed. “Permitted use signage is used on many DRED lands, multi-use trails, today and has been in use for decades,” Bassett wrote in an email. “Prohibitive signage gets vandalized quickly, is not “inviting” to trail users and is generally not desired.”
The department received so much attention last week about the proposed changes regarding horses that it issued a clarification Friday afternoon, reiterating Bassett’s view that horse riders will retain access to the trails they use now. 
“Horseback riding has been permitted on all road-width trails, unless closed by posting, since 2006,” read the statement. “Further, riding has been permitted on trails that are signed for such use. In the proposed rules, DRED seeks to define “road-width trails” as having a minimum width of eight-feet. Horseback riding will continue to be permitted on trails as in the past, including road-width and trails signed for such use.”
Howard, who likes to meet friends from other parts of the state on centrally located state-owned trails, isn’t optimistic those signs would appear. And she disagrees with Bassett’s view that the state isn’t changing her access to trails.
“In this state economy or in any economy, are you going to print up signs for the trails we are allowed to go onto?” she asked. 
Other proposed rule changes include the following:
∎ Fishing from state-owned beaches and parks, including Hampton and North Hampton and Jenness beaches as well as Wallis Sands and Odiorne Point state parks, would be prohibited from 9 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Currently, there is no limit on the hours. Bassett said public safety prompted that proposed change; the state was concerned about people fishing during the busiest beach hours.
∎ Animals would be allowed on additional trails at Crawford and Franconia notches.
∎ Alcohol would be prohibited all year at Silver Lake State Park in Hollis. The current rules prohibits alcohol on July 4 and the Saturday and Sunday that follow, although Morris said the state has been disallowing alcohol at that park for the last two years anyway.
∎ Geocaching, a treasure hunting hobby that requires hiding small receptacles containing items on public lands, would also be prohibited on state-owned land without specific permission. 
For information about the other proposed rule changes, public hearings or how to submit comments in writing, visit nhstateparks.org and click on “Who we Are.” When the new page loads, click on “Division” and then “Proposed Admin Rules.”


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

NY doesn't do a lot right BUT we do have at least 2 state-owned/operated sections of land predominantly for horse riding

If you do end up in conversations with those that might be able to get something accomplished within the government end of things look at the Otter Creek Trail system & Brookfield trail systems in NY for inspiration, there are also a few others on a smaller scale.

New Hampshire's best way to keep everyone happy would be to create a few horse specific camping/riding areas, lose some land but gain some horse friendly land that can have narrower marked trails, some easy trails, difficult trails, a place where your horse can crap in the woods and no one will care... snowmobile the wide trails in the winter, families can hike them year round ect.... but then you don't lose it all as it sounds like you currently would


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I don't know. I know I can ride clear to Canada right now. If they limit riding on DRED lands I won't be able to.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

http://www.nhstateparks.org/uploads/pdf/2012_NH_Snowmobile-Corridor_Map.pdf

I can ride most of these trails now. There are also a whole host of small trails that aren't on the map and maintained by various little snowmobile clubs.









That little parcel of land sits right next door to me. Owned by DRED and crisscrossed by small trails maintained by the snowmobile club which also sits on DRED lands. The snowmobile trail crosses my property from the clubhouse and connects with trails that connect to others all over the state. I could ride to VT. I could ride to Canada. I could ride to Maine.

DRED owns little parcels like that all over the state. Effectively blocking any passage of horse and rider. Most of these trails are wide enough for 2 snow machines to pass each other. Not wide enough for horses by DRED's proposal.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Hopefully if enough equine advocates attend the meeting(s), and present themselves in adult fashion, the rule changes can be modified.

Rules like some listed here have been the beginning of the end of horse use on some of the trail systems around here, which was exactly the intention of some of the other user groups. A shame everyone can't just coexist.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

It will pretty much put an end to the idea of putting a couple small run ins and pens at the back of my property at the trail head for people who want to go horse camping.

I do intend to go to the meeting tonight at the University. I'm hoping others will be there but so far the horse people have been strangely quiet.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Sue, just saw this too. The hearing is really far from my part of the state but I am going to write a letter at least.

http://nhpr.org/post/proposed-park-rules-spur-horseback-riders-anger

I don't understand who is advocating for this? Is it ATV/snow mobile riders (NOT trying to flame anyone- genuinely curious) who want the trails?

ETA: Just saw there is a hearing on 10/3 in the Monadnock Region- may try to go to that one.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm sorry, but people who don't know much about a type animal shouldn't write rules/laws that impact it. That's a job that should be done by knowledgeable people

I remember a good example of using common sense in making a law when I looked into being able to ride on Myrtle Beach for a friend. I can respect beaches not being open to equestrian use or being limited to certain times during the year.
The people who drafted the Myrtle Beach law did a pretty good job dealing with the reality of riding a horse vs animals in general since most laws are written with smaller pets (e.g. dogs) in mind. Here someone used their head and took into account the differences.

Under animals:
"Owners are responsible for the removal of pet waste on beaches and other public property."
This is a pretty typical law that we see almost everywhere.
(Skipping laws for the other beaches in the area.....there's more than one :lol

Under Myrtle Beach:
"Dogs in public must be on a leash at all times. No animals are allowed on the beach or Ocean Boulevard from 13th Ave. S. to 21st Ave. N. in Myrtle Beach during any time of the year. No dogs are allowed on the beach 9 a.m.-5 p.m. May 15-Sept. 15. Pet owners are responsible for removing pet waste from any public property, including beaches.

Horses and riders are allowed on the beach within the city of Myrtle Beach from the third Saturday in November until the end of February, in groups of six or fewer. No "staging" is allowed within the city limits (access to the beach is through Myrtle Beach State Park), and riders must clean up droppings west of the high tide line."

Now there is a common sense law that someone with at least some functioning brain cells took the time to think through. Because:
1. It addresses a way of limited problems that a very large group of riders could create along a beach used by the general public by limited the size of each group without out right restricting the use of the beach.
2. It recognizes that a horse is not like most of our domestic pets and riding horse is not like walking a dog. You can't just whip out a little baggie and pick up the poop to put it in the next trash can.
3. It uses common sense that if your horse took it's dump below the high tide mark (or in the water) then mother nature takes care of the clean up when the tide comes in and goes back out. Granted, if your horse does take a dump above the high tide mark (e.g. while you're riding to the beach) then you have to carry it down to the nearest trash can. But at least you have good odds of your horse not making it's nature call before you get near the water.
Good grief, if you horse doing this for the first time it could take several nervous poops within the first mile. Imagine have to pick up each one.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Comments by email are also being excepted until October 24. Do it and appear in person if you can.

I think a lot of it surrounds Bear Brook in the southern part of the state. It's a whole lot more congested there.

I was too shy to speak up at the meeting but was finally able to pen my thoughts and offer a few solutions to the problem in the south.

I'm very disappointed at the turn out. The room should have been packed and it maybe had 30 people. They used one of the big lecture halls at the college.

No idea where this started. I doubt it was the snowmobilers. My neighboring snowmobile club makes their bridges horse safe and shares nicely. Not a lot of riding going on in the dead of winter anyway. My guess is some city birdwatcher from Mass. stepped in horse doobers wearing her white walking shoes. 

I can even imagine having to dismount and clean up after my horse in the woods. I'm short and chubby, my horse is very tall. I'm fortunate that there are usually stone walls or stumps nearby but that isn't always the case.

I'm still pondering the 8 ft. hardened surface they are talking about. Nothing like that here. I have logging roads, deer runs, snowmobile trails, dirt roads. I've got the day off tomorrow and the weather is supposed to be glorious. I will search the trails for it. Might find an abandoned bit of asphalt or cement left over from when all the farms died from other stupid mistakes the government made.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

*Horse owners give officials an earful – and a whiff – over trail rules proposal *

By ANNMARIE TIMMINS
Monitor staff
Tuesday, October 1, 2013 
(Published in print: Wednesday, October 2, 2013) 

State park officials got an earful yesterday afternoon from horse riders who fear proposed rule changes to trail riding will ruin their hobby – even the state of New Hampshire.
“I understand a lot of people come from out of state to ride horses here in New Hampshire,” said Sen. David Boutin, a Hooksett Republican who said he’s fielded complaints from many constituents. “If they get even the perception that we are changing the rules to make it more difficult to ride here, they are going to go somewhere else.”
The rule changes being considered would require horse riders to dismount and clear manure off riding trails, and would limit their riding to hardened trails at least 8 feet wide. Riders could go on more narrow trails only if the trail was posted as open to horses.
Rules already require animal waste be removed from trails, but horse riders said it’s never been enforced. And all trails on state land are open now unless posted as closed.
State Parks and Recreation Director Philip Bryce began a 1 p.m. public hearing yesterday apologizing to the nearly 100 horse enthusiasts before him for not fully appreciating the implication of the proposed changes on their hobby. 

After listening to 31∕2 of testimony – and agreeing to smell baggies of horse manure – Bryce thanked the crowd for its comments. “We learned much,” he said.
Bryce and his colleagues at the state Department of Resources and Economic Development held a second hearing in Plymouth last night and will hold three more public hearings this week and next across the state. 
They are also taking comments by email and mail until Oct. 24. Bryce will also meet with members of several horse groups Monday evening at DRED’s office at 172 Pembroke Road to further discuss the rule changes. That meeting is also open to the public.
Bryce said those comments will influence what the final rules look like.
“What we did not want to do was make a restrictive change after (the process) was closed to public comment,” Bryce said. “These rules are not final. Whatever we do, we are going to do with the full knowledge of the people in the equestrian community.”
DRED began hearing from horse owners late last month, shortly after unveiling changes it is considering to state park rules. The changes would affect many things – fishing on the Seacoast, geocaching and pets on hiking trails – but it’s been the equestrian community that has responded the loudest. 
Bryce reiterated the state’s position that the proposed changes are meant to clarify – not change – the rules governing horse activity at state parks. Horse owners disagreed vehemently yesterday.
Lynne Yeaton of Loudon, like many others, said it would be incredibly unsafe for her to dismount her horse on a trail in the woods to kick manure off the trail. Many horse riders in the audience said they need a mounting block to get atop their horse – something they wouldn’t have along the trail. They also said they can control their horse most safely from atop it.
“To have a person dismount is asking for an accident to happen,” Yeaton said. “You would have ambulances coming all the time to your parks if you did that.”
Joann Lytle of Concord said she moved from Boston to New Hampshire because she wanted to buy a horse and ride. Her taxes, she said, help support the state parks she fears she will no longer be able to use. 

“If you push us out (of the parks and) into the road, we are going to get hit by cars,” she said. Several other people said they are routinely harassed while riding on roads by drivers who beep horns, swerve close to them or rev their motorcycle engines.
Carol Karakoudas of Deerfield said she’s ridden at Bear Brook State Park, one of five state parks in New Hampshire open to horses, daily for 25 years. She has seen increasing restrictions on her ability to ride, she said, but believes these go too far. 
“These rules are unfair, unnecessary and shortsighted,” she said.
Several riders said they’ve never seen a requirement that a horse trail be at least 8 feet wide.
Becky Bennett, who owns 42 acres in Pembroke and rides with her husband and daughters, came to the hearing with three baggies of horse manure – one fresh and the others a little older. She, like others, reminded park officials that horse manure is biodegradable and, in their opinion, inoffensive.
“Feel how light it is,” Bennett said, handing park officials a “Day 2” baggie. “And Day 3 . . . it smells just like you cut your lawn,” she said. 
DRED Commissioner Jeff Rose declined Bennett’s offer to take a whiff. But Bryce obliged.
For information about the other public hearings or how to submit comments in writing, visit nhstateparks.org and click on “Who We Are.” When the new page loads, click on “Division” and then “Proposed Admin Rules.”




*Comments can also be emailed to Leanne Lavoie at [email protected]*.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I sent a message to DRED via their website yesterday, and actually got a response from a real person (whose title was "Rule and Contract Coordinator")- while brief, I was actually pleasantly surprised that they responded at all:

_Thank you for your comments. I will see that they are taken into consideration._

I also contacted my state rep directly as I don't think I'll be able to attend the public hearing tonight. Hopefully it will be a good turnout though, and I already feel guilty that I won't be able to be there in person. Saw my farrier yesterday and talked it up with him, hopefully he'll spread the word around here too.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Wow, so sorry to see even the "live free or die" state is becoming increasingly not free. Give 'em hell up there! Good luck.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Good morning,

Thank you for your comments. I will see that they are taken into consideration.

Sincerely,

Leanne Lavoie

Leanne M. Lavoie
Program Specialist (Rule and Contract Coordinator)
NH Department of Resources and Economic Development
172 Pembroke Road – PO Box 1856
Concord, New Hampshire 03302-1856
603.271.3727 Ext. 418
603.271.2629 (fax)
[email protected]


That's all I got. Comments are open until the 24th. Will have to wait and see I guess.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Sue- I got this email today, not sure what the updates will be but sounds promising:

Thank you very much for taking the time to comment on our administrative rules. We are releasing a revised rules proposal which incorporates many of the written comments that were provided, the comments provided at the public hearings, and the meetings with groups of specific users. 

These revised rules should be up on the parks website today. In addition we have two public information sessions scheduled next week. Please refer to the press release below for additional information.

We hope that we have addressed many of the concerns expressed and welcome further comment. 

Phil

*Philip A. Bryce *
Director 
NH Division of Parks and Recreation
(w) 603-271-3556 (c) 603-340-7846
www.nhstateparks.org
[email protected]
(note new email address)



State of New Hampshire
Department of Resources and Economic Development
*DIVISION of PARKS and RECREATION*
172 Pembroke Rd, PO Box 1856 Concord NH 03302-1856
Phone: 603/271-2006 Fax: 603/271-2629 
*CONTACT: *Amy Bassett, 603-271-3556, [email protected]

*For Immediate Release * 
*Information Sessions for Proposed Admin Rules*​ ​ *(Concord, NH)* The New Hampshire Division of Parks and Recreation will be holding two public information sessions on the proposed Administrative Rule changes. Changes to the proposed Administrative Rules have been made based upon the first public comment period. The Information Sessions are as follows: 

On December 9, 2013 at the Department of Resources and Economic Development, 172 Pembroke Road, Concord from 2:00pm – 4:00pm, department staff will be available to discuss the proposed rule changes. The public is welcome to drop by at any time between the posted hours.

On December 10, 2013 at the NH Audubon McLane Conference Center, PSNH Room, 84 Silk Farm Road, Concord from 6:30pm – 7:30pm, department staff will be available to discuss the proposed rule changes. The public is welcome to drop by at any time between the posted hours. From 7:30 – 9:30 Director Bryce will make a presentation on the proposed rule changes. The public will be invited to speak.

The revised proposed Administrative Rules will be posted on the Division’s website by end of day December 4, nhstateparks.org under Who We Are. Public comments can be sent to [email protected] or mail to DRED Leanne Lavoie, Rules Coordinator, P.O. Box 1856, Concord, NH 03302 by December 18, 2013.

The Division of Parks and Recreation is comprised of the Bureau of Park Operations, Bureau of Historic Sites, Bureau of Trails, and Cannon Mountain. The Division manages 92 properties, including state parks, beaches, campgrounds, historic sites, trails, waysides, and natural areas. The Division of Parks and Recreation is one of four divisions of the Department of Resources and Economic Development. To learn more, visit www.nhstateparks.org, follow NH State Parks on Facebook and Twitter, or call 603/271-3556.

###​ 

--


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## RhondaLynn (Jan 26, 2010)

New Hampshire I am so sorry for this battle you are in... I hope for the best for you!!!

Could someone explain how horse poop is offensive?? in my neck of the woods, (Georgia) there are hikers that complain about the horses and the poop. I realize that FRESH poop could be a little yuky, but come on. how hard is it to just step over. After it has been there a day or so it is totally non-offensive.. at least to me!!!
If anyone knows exactly why hikers get so tore up about the poop, please explain it to me.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I got that too. At least they are being open about it. Have to check and see.

Where I live it would be crazy to have any sort of rules. I've yet to run into another rider though I do occasionally see a horse pass the house or spot tracks. I think down in the southern part of the state where it's more congested they need to do a little control but not the onerous rules they were proposing. My guess is a few morons ruined a good thing for all and left a mess in parking lots or trail heads.

RhondaLynn, some folks are freaked out by any sort of poop. I have a summer resident down the road who stopped to admire my flower beds once. I gave her a tour and dug up a few easy things for her. She saw the horses out in the pasture and you could see the fear wash over her face. She asked me if I used manure on my gardens. Told her of course I did. She attempted to walk back across 2 acres of flower and vegetable garden without touching her feet to dirt. No idea what she was thinking would happen to her if she touched a little bit of old compost but she was genuinely scared. I haven't noticed the plants I gave her growing at her house either. She probably discarded them in the woods someplace for fear she might catch the dreaded poop disease.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

SueNH said:


> dreaded poop disease.


 :rofl:


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

State listens to horse owners, drops plans to limit trail access | Concord Monitor
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RhondaLynn (Jan 26, 2010)

Yea... good for NH trailriders!!!


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

RhondaLynn said:


> Could someone explain how horse poop is offensive?? in my neck of the woods, (Georgia) there are hikers that complain about the horses and the poop. I realize that FRESH poop could be a little yuky, but come on. how hard is it to just step over. After it has been there a day or so it is totally non-offensive.. at least to me!!!
> If anyone knows exactly why hikers get so tore up about the poop, please explain it to me.


Let me sum it up for you, city folk! Unfortunately I live and work around to many of them...Anyway they think horse manure is yucky and horses should have to wear diapers or be banned from their trails. After all they are hiking to enjoy nature and don't want to have to avoid naturally occurring horse apples.


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## garlicbunny (Apr 30, 2009)

When I first saw this post I was so saddened by the proposed changes. After reading to the end all of you horse people made a differance, can't say how thrilled I am for you all! I would have to move so somewhere horse friendly if this happened in my state. Just to add, snowmobiles add fumes to the air, horses add natural biodegradeable horse poo to the earth, totally nature at it's best. Anyways I am so HAPPY about reading that you fought and won!!!!!!! Best news ever!


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I have a major snowmobile corridor that passes through my property. I see much more soil compaction damage than a few horses could ever do. You would have to run the Budweiser Clydes with their big wagon over that trail daily to equal the damage I see the snowmobiles do in a few short months. I finally got after the snowmobile club to reseed the trail. Told them you want to use it you reseed. They keep using that trail even when the snow has worn off and the machines act almost as rototillers.

http://www.nhstateparks.org/uploads/pdf/2012_NH_Snowmobile-Corridor_Map.pdf

I made a point of telling the director that horse people spend a whole lot more money year round than the snowmobile folks do. My wallet bleeds money year round. The snow machine run for one short season. Somehow they were always the beloved child of the Parks Dept. though. Other horseman did the same. We all made a point of pointing out all the related businesses and home industries that would suffer should we loose trail access. They heard us! Money talks.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

SueNH said:


> I have a major snowmobile corridor that passes through my property. I see much more soil compaction damage than a few horses could ever do. You would have to run the Budweiser Clydes with their big wagon over that trail daily to equal the damage I see the snowmobiles do in a few short months. I finally got after the snowmobile club to reseed the trail. Told them you want to use it you reseed. They keep using that trail even when the snow has worn off and the machines act almost as rototillers.
> 
> http://www.nhstateparks.org/uploads/pdf/2012_NH_Snowmobile-Corridor_Map.pdf
> 
> I made a point of telling the director that horse people spend a whole lot more money year round than the snowmobile folks do. My wallet bleeds money year round. The snow machine run for one short season. Somehow they were always the beloved child of the Parks Dept. though. Other horseman did the same. We all made a point of pointing out all the related businesses and home industries that would suffer should we loose trail access. They heard us! Money talks.


Bicycles, motorcycles, quads and snow mobiles all do a ton more damage to trails than horses. Those wheel tracks leave nice little ruts for water to flow down while horses put in divots that slow water down...

Snow mobiles are the worst of the lot though. They compact the snow into ice which then melts and runs from underneath. Great way to put big washes into your favorite trails. Some of our clubs are learning over here, they are putting logs across the trails to slow down the water and direct it off the trail where it can spread and do less damage.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

My land sits very low and the snowmobile trail is close to the river. Come spring I'm marching up and down the trail, a nervous wreck worrying about the river coming up and washing me away.

However they are good neighbors, I've had them keep my back gate open with their grooming machine and make me a pad so I could get in and out with the truck to bring the horses round bales during deep snow years. Once I made the head trail maintenance guy understand what a problem erosion could be he bent over backwards trying to accommodate me. They actually cut a second trail out there this summer so that when one gets worn down they can kick over to the other. They should bend over backwards. If I shut down my property to them it adds 32 miles to getting back to the clubhouse which sits right across the street from my property.

Got 10 inches of fluffy snow last night. Trails officially open up here today. Got snow on the brain.


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