# Rearing on command



## HayburnerHeights

All I can say is I had a friend teach her horse to rear on command years ago, she regretted later on as it did cause issues with keeping her on all 4


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## Lucara

I suppose the only reason why you might not teach him is if you sold him and didn't tell the new owners what the cue was. They may get hurt by cuing him to rear without knowing it. 

Other than that I know the horse at Dixie knew how to do it but I can't remember what the cue was for it or how he taught him =/. I would be interested in seeing pictures though!


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## Wallaby

At the camp I worked at over the summer we got a little POA mare who had been trained to rear with downward pressure on the lead rope (maybe not the best cue...). Since that was her cue, whenever she pulled too far back on the lead rope she'd go up becuase she was "cued"... Just a thought.


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## xilikeggs0

Wait, are you trying to teach? him to rear with you on his back?


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## Zab

yes, him to rear with me on his back 

I think the cue I have for it is original enogh to nt get confused for him or a rider. But there might be a better one  
Any rider giving the cue I'm thinking of (not going to tell you..not yet at least) will need new lessons in how to treat a horse. Maybe he'd teach her  And no.. it's not kicking and pulling, it's not mean at all, but it's not how you should ride. And he's not the horse that throws up and falls over, a rider doing it wrong would be able to sit but might realize that she didn't do it right. If I ever have to sell him, of course the new owners would know all about this behaviour. I don't want him punished for doing what he's trained to do. But I don't plan to sell and I do believe I can keep him for the rest of his life.


Like on the ground.. whoever steps up in front of my horse, throws her arms up above her head and say ''up!" just have to blame herself if she gets scared when he rears...  I don't think he'd do it to a child either, since he's not too keen on doing it at all.

Here's a small rearing from the ground.. it's not good, I want him to have his face more relaxed, not thrown upwards. I don't have any better or newer tho  It's about a year ld.


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## farmpony84

I was at the horse expo a few years ago and a lady had a horse that she had taught to rear like that. It reared and slipped, flipped over and they had to put it down. It was very sad.

I have a horse that rears on command. He rears on command, he rears when he's cranky, when he's feeling good, when he's just being himself. I don't have time to type up a LONG argument right now. 

But here is my quick thought. If you are planning to sell this horse ever, then keep his feet on the ground, if you plan to keep him forever, then do what you will, but be safe....


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## NewHeart

farmpony84 said:


> But here is my quick thought. If you are planning to sell this horse ever, then keep his feet on the ground, if you plan to keep him forever, then do what you will, but be safe....


I agree, if you plan to sell that horse, you are only asking for trouble. Even if you do notify the potential buyers, the risk will always be there. Personally, this is something that I would never do period, but thats me. If you are planning on selling, I would seriously think about what you doing first.


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## MustangMan08

my friend had a app that would rear on command when your on his back. you had to pull the reigns back a certian way tho. It was neat except for the fact i learned to ride on that horse and nobody told me about it. i never fell off or anything luckly he was 22 when i started riding him and he didnt feel like getting to high lol


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## iridehorses

This is a horse that I kept for a week. He would rear at the slightest invitation or if he just felt like it. At first I thought it was pretty cool then it became trouble when he would do it on the trail. (That is his original owner riding him in the pic).


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

I have taught my one mare to rear on command. I do it by ticking back on the left rein and sliding my right leg back behind the girth. She does it and the minute I stop, she stops. She knows the difference. I dont plan on ever getting rid of her, so its not a problem for me. She does it in any bit, so its not that the bit is pinching her.


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## Zab

As long as the ce for rearing is different from other cues, and you're consistent in telling them of when they do it a the wrong time, it can't be a problem.
The horse already knows how to rear, I just tell him to do it when I ask.
Just like he knows how to canter, just because I teac him a cue for it doesn't mean he'll keep cantering whenever he feels like it..'

All those spanish horses, n the spanish ridingschool.. you think they're dangerous? They let small kids ride them too..

And it's sad about the horse that slipped, bt that was an accident. It cvould have slipped in the pasture or in a canter too.

CMT: that was one I havn't heard of


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## Zab

One of the reasons I'm gonna go through with this, btw, is to be another one on the side that doesn't get a problem because the horse knows how to rear on command.
I think people have this idea it's ''so dangerous and the horse will keep doing it all the time''.. but it's really not fair to the trick. Lots of horses can rear without it ever being a problem. A few get problematic with it, just like a few learns to run off with their riders... but it's not because they're taught to do it, it's because they're taught to do it in a way that can be misunderstood by the horse, or because the rider isn't consistent when the horse does it at the wong time for some reason. The horses that does it just to get rid of their riders would most probably do it anyway, taught or not.

I have a friend who taught their horse when they were kids. It never reared unless it was asked to, never to get rid of the rider. But, they made the mistake of ''pulling and kicking'' and the horse leaernt to rear instead of backing. They couldn't get it to back after that (not sure how much they tried tho), but the horse didn't do it ''just because'', it just misunderstood the signals because it couldn't differ them.


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## Spastic_Dove

so out of curiosity, what is your cue going to be to teach the horse to rear?


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## Zab

Hands (reins) raised up about 5", a steady but not hard pull/contact, sitting deep, heels against the sides and a firm ''upp!" voice command. Not gonna allow it without the voice command as that's the safety if another rider ever rides him.

For backing it's normal rein height, small, light ''pulses'' in the rein, normal seat and the legs stroking the sides backwards gently. If he seems insecure I click with my tounge, because I do that when I back him from the ground too.

Last time I rode I practiced some and he seemed mostly confused (first time for him), but today he seemed to have understood it. I backed, walked, ''reared'', walked, backed and he got it right all three times.  I shouldn't be surprised, he always seem to understand a thing better the second session than the first. But we of course need to work much more on it to make it really safe.
And I have to remind myself not to be sloppy with him doing the right thing at all, and always tell him off if he backs when he should rear, or rears when he should back.


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## starlinestables

I have a horse that could rear on command but I discontinued it because he did try to do it all the time...

Heres my argument on why you shouldn't.... There are many other parlor tricks you can teach your horse that are alot more impressive and alot safer and some are even useful like the bow or lay down (cause then you can mount bareback really easily) my horse bows, walks on his knees, lays down rolls over, I can sit on his tummy and pedal his legs.. He can sit, turn around on a sit, salute at a sit, pick pocket, yes, no, kisses, blow his nose in a hankie.. ect.

The second reason... horse people like me will look at you and think your an idiot who is going to hurt someone or kill themselves. (I really do mean this in the nicest way possible.) To me its kind of like looking at someone who is riding with their heels up, hunched over and flapping their elbows like a chicken saying giddy up or yeehaw... Its just silly and ineffective.


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## Rebelappy

MustangMan08 said:


> my friend had a app that would rear on command when your on his back. you had to pull the reigns back a certian way tho. It was neat except for the fact i learned to ride on that horse and nobody told me about it. i never fell off or anything luckly he was 22 when i started riding him and he didnt feel like getting to high lol


i can say i have had the same experience except i had purchaced my appy and had him about a year he was about 19 at the time and was never told he had been taught or what the cue was to get him to .. well i started doing alittle reining and one the cues i used in reining was right simalar to his rearing cue and well i wasnt to pleased my trainer got on him and niether was he thats when it came out that he had been trained to do it i would defintly tell the person if you ever do sell the horse how you got them to do it and let them beware so that they can go other rounds if they need to


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## Zab

starlinestables said:


> I have a horse that could rear on command but I discontinued it because he did try to do it all the time...
> 
> Heres my argument on why you shouldn't.... There are many other parlor tricks you can teach your horse that are alot more impressive and alot safer and some are even useful like the bow or lay down (cause then you can mount bareback really easily) my horse bows, walks on his knees, lays down rolls over, I can sit on his tummy and pedal his legs.. He can sit, turn around on a sit, salute at a sit, pick pocket, yes, no, kisses, blow his nose in a hankie.. ect.
> 
> The second reason... horse people like me will look at you and think your an idiot who is going to hurt someone or kill themselves. (I really do mean this in the nicest way possible.) To me its kind of like looking at someone who is riding with their heels up, hunched over and flapping their elbows like a chicken saying giddy up or yeehaw... Its just silly and ineffective.


Good for me that I don't care about what ''horse people like you'' think 
You think the same way about the stallions in the spanish ridingschool?
How do you know I'm not teaching him those too? And that argument is a variation of ''there is no reason to..'' But face it, in photography (yes, I enjoy to take photos, and set up photos, especially fantasy and medieval-ish) it's much more impressive nd powerful with a rearing horse than a bowing one. A bowing one can of course be nice with a far lady on it's back.. but I'm no fair lady..  And frankly.. I don't care about those other things.
''kissing'' horses can accidentally bite your lip off, horse that learns to shake hoof or nod often manage to kick or knock people. I know several examples. And what if the sitting horse suddenly sits down on the lesson? Or worse.. sits down ona small kid? :O If your horse does pretty much anything constantly against your will, you have a training problem.
I rode a horse taught to lie down.. he lied down with a rider and all as soon as he got bored. Broke a leg of one f the kids on my lesson. So don't claim those things, or anything else, to be safer... it's all about how you teach them. 

If you teach a horse to rear, you just have to make sure he doesnt confuse the cues, or associates rearing with stress. Most ''ordinary'' people who teaches there horses to rear, does it by either a ''pulling and kicking''-type method, uses the same cues for backing or take the chance when the horse is stressed. Is it strange that those horses rears in pressed situations?
The other tpe of ''ordinary'' riders that teach their horses to rear, does it by the trick training method where you only tell the horse when it's good. That's equally wrong, because they arn't consistent with telling the horse off for doing it when t shouldn't. -how can the horse knw thatit's not a good thing to do all the time?
And some are just inconsistent in all.

My horse is far from a mean one, he never protests, he gets confused at times and he's much forward. But he doesn't fight the rider, he always tries to do what's asked of him. If I make sure he knows wen to rear and when not to, why on earth should he suddenly start rearing when he's not supposed to? Because he think it's fun? He doesn't think it's fun to gt told off. Because he gets scared? Why would he be more eager to rear when he's scared after he got a cue for it than before? He'd run at the most.

He has reared pretty high with a rider before (in a controlled but not-allowed way..), when he got confused in the start, so he knows very well how to rear. He hasnt done it since and all it took to stop him was a firm no and command forward.

I know people who has taught rearing horses a command for their bad habit, and that way made them quit rearing. Just like you can teach a barking dog ''bark'' to at the same time teach it ''quiet''.

I know my horse, I'm sure of my method, and horse people ''like you'' need to learn that there is nothing wrong you can teach a horse, you can just teach it the wrong way. I have friends with rearing horses that can rear, and back and stay, and be ridden without saddle or bridle, that doesn't rear all the time.

An if, just f, I get a problem with him not being able to tell the differenses, I'll train him out of it. If I fail, I have a skilled trainer by my side who can help me. But I really don't think any of that will be necessary.

And of course, if Ill ever sell that horse, which I doubt since I for one plan to keep him the rest of his life, and two won't sell a horse that got about 80% chance to end up tortured to death because of his breed. _(Illegal slaughter transports, most standies ends up there even if the first seller are very careful on who they sell to. I rather put him down humanely. But I won't, since I'll keep him the rest of his life, if there's a will there's a way._)

I'll come back when he knows the trick and I don't have a problem with it 
See you!


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## NewHeart

Zab said:


> If I make sure he knows wen to rear and when not to, why on earth should he suddenly start rearing when he's not supposed to?


Why on earth would he do such a thing? Well, lets see... because horses are unpredicatable. You can NEVER fully guarantee that your horse will won't rear when it is not on command. You can trust your horse with all your heart, but at the end of the day it is still an animal and could give a crap less about what happens to you. Their level of thinking will never be that the same of a human. 

I am not trying to tell you what to do here, I am just pointing out a fact. Horses are horses, they are wonderful animals, but they are also just that, animals. They will always be unpredictable, and teaching a horse to rear you are only raising that level of risk. The people on here that told you they would not do it seem to realize this as well. Lets all keep in mind ignorance, is not bliss.


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## farmpony84

I would like to add that it is very rare to get a horse that is so well disciplined that it only does the things that it is supposed to do on command. Those horses are out there, and they do exist but they are also very, very well trained. 

Yes rearing is a natural thing for a horse to do, but so is bucking and you don't see people asking them to do that on command. And no, a piaf is much different. The spanish riding horses are very well trained, but they are trained and ridden by trainers constantly. 

My consern is that you already have a horse that rears on the ground, I believe I read that he did that on his own and you slapped a command to it. Which means you had a problem that you've allowed to continue. Now, you are your own person and I can tell that you feel confident that you'll be able to do this w/out any issues. I hope you can. I'm not sure that training a horse to rear just so that you can say that he's one of the few that does it and doesnt have a problem because more then likely... he will.

just my 2cents.


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## Summer08

I worked with a acting group of knights for a summer. They used horses that knew a number of tricks and I rode a mare that could rear on cue. Her cue was two part 1) preasure on the sides, but only from the heel and well behind the girth (further back than you'd press for normal cues) 2) draw back on the reins in a slightly downward manner.
I discovered this by accident one day while we were taking them swimming and she tried to kick at another horse, thus the leg pressure to move her away. (she refused to walk into the water and had to be backed, but would then swim around freely) Anyway, she never came off the ground more than 10 inches or so and it was always in a very purposeful manner, you knew you were rearing.


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## Kim

Nothing like a bit of controversy!!!

My friend is only 18 and been riding for 5 years, she works in Spain at a training stable, she rides stallions, trains them to do all this awesome stuff I could only dream about!!

I reckon, If you know what you're doing, you're obviously aware of dangers etc etc. You've got a trainor helping you if you need it, I assume you're a pretty good rider. It's your horse, you're not planning on selling it, you're smart eough not to use a cue that would be confusing, and tell any future owners etc.

Stallions in spanish schools rear on cue, are controlled, and I've never heard about any that go crazy from my friend... well any more than your average horse anyway.

I don't think it is any less dangerous than other tricks. They could all go wrong if they weren't trained properly.

You sound like you've thought it through. So why not...


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## starlinestables

Here is the differences between your horse and the lipizzans... 

-They are worked every day by professional trainers.
-They have a routine. It is in sequence so that they know when to do it unlike randomly like you would be doing.

The difference in my tricks and yours is they are done in a sequence. He doesn't just lay down or sit randomly. Laying down is much more difficult for a horse than rearing, therefore making that less likely than rearing. It is also much easier to prevent a horse from laying down than rearing.

Kissing doesn't involve teeth and its a low stress situation so a horse is no liking to bite. Spanish walk, or counting may cause he horse to do it randomly but its not going to kill anyone like rearing. It won't even cause them to strike, they may do a slow paw which might cause a bruise. I wouldn't teach pick pocket to a known biter unless I've broke him of that habit.. this is also why I use a red hankie or a whip.. Those two things are the ONLY things hes allowed to bite.

The one thing that prevents all of the randomness is a routine. Everytime I do tricks my horse bows, kneels, camal walks, lay down, roll over, sit, sit salute, pivot sitting, sit salute, up!, Stand in front and talk to your audience let him pick pocket and wave it.. act surprised. "Hey now! you want a whippin?!" he shakes his head No. "Your a good pony arn't you??" he knods Yes. Put the hankie back in the pocket and he picks it again and waves it... "Why do you want that hankie so bad? Got a cold?" Hold the hankie to his nose and he blows his nose. He says thank you by giving me a kiss on the cheek. 

I could go on an on. Yes you can change up your routine, but then you do it for a while so that he knows what is expected.


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## Eolith

Please quit with the comparing your horse with the Spanish horses. These horses are trained by people who have devoted their entire lives to creating this art form... much like a geisha devotes her entire life to doing her geisha thing. The horses do not live lives that even closely resemble that of a normal horse's. I met an Andalusian who had come from one of these programs at one time. He was absolutely amazing, but the reason they sold him is because he didn't have the right mindset or quite the physical ability to do their tricks. You aren't taking into account that the Spanish trainers go through a lot of uber-fancy well-bred gorgeous horses before they find the few that have what it takes. Also, he had been in such a rigorous program with so much training and so little "normal" horse life that he had to learn how to graze as a seven year old. It was pretty pathetic watching a full grown horse pull up as many clods of dirt with his grass as a 6-month old foal.

I can also assure you that before these horses come anywhere near to taking feet off the ground, they are _extensively _trained in advanced dressage on the ground to build up their body condition and teach them good form. These are a few hundred steps that you are skipping, and while your horse may be able to do it, it will never be quite as good or quite as "safe" as it is with the Spanish horses.

Another thing that you are not taking into account is that having the weight of a rider on its back changes a horse's balance dramatically. Just because a horse can rear in a field and be fine does not always mean that he can rear with you on his back and be fine. And honestly, I've never in my 12 years of living, riding and working with horses, seen one rear any higher than the rear in the picture you've shown while at liberty. They usually only go up really high to do some serious fighting.

Finally, I don't understand what you're trying to prove with this. If it's all about ego and "being on the side that can do fine while rearing" and "not looking like some fair little lady in a medieval fair"... these are not legitimate reasons. In my opinion, most things done with a horse should be meant to improve yourself, improve your horse, or get a practical job done. Teaching your horse to rear is not really accomplishing any of this.


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## LDblackhorse

Hi
I must agree with my fellow horsemen above.
You are comparing apples and oranges. you may be a good rider I don't know. But the spanish rding school are dedicated to the art of riding and have been doing this for hundreds of years. Secondly, the rear you keep refeering to in the spainsh riding school is called the levade. It is not the straight up rear, like in the movies . But it is a higher level rear which is not that high but a very controlled and hard to perform. Since the horse must hold it for seven seconds

Also they do not just teach any stallion they choose a specific stallions to do the job. Some will learn the levade some the courbette
One of these factors is more or less how is the horse mentally.
This applies to any horse.
I have taught my horse to rear on commmand. But I only did so knowing
1. My horse had the mind set for it. I wouldn't train a horse right off the race track to do this.
2. we toke our time
3.We had an experianced horseman to guide the way.

Sorry for the lengthy note. But I do wish you the best if you want to do it go ahead what ever the out come may be.


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## Marecare

I have to agree with the last two posters and would like to add that there is a big difference between the horses that they speak of and a back yard trainer trying to make a horse do a trick(for what purpose?).
There is a big difference between a circus act and riding.
I would throw anyone off my ranch trying to teach their horse to rear like that and I know many professional trainers that would do the same thing.
Do as you wish.


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## starlinestables

I agree, I would probably ask someone to leave my farm if they did this because I know one day, that horse will rear when I'm leading it some where and chances are that person isn't paying me enough to deal with that BS.


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## JustDressageIt

I would like to make two points:

1) The horses in the Spanish Riding School are taught to LEVADE, not rear. There is a distinct difference; the levade is the ultimate in collection. The horse is extremely low to the ground, using its haunches in an extreme way to balance. 

2) Perhaps everyone who wants to help Zab should contact her through PMs - there are children who frequent this forum that think rearing is "cool" and want to know how to teach their horsey - and we all know where that would end up.

Thank you.

Edited to add...

My voice command for the canter is "up" ... I say it without thinking most times...


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## Spyder

Zab said:


> _Well, to quote a trainer: "Do you teach your horse to canter? If yes.. does he canter all the time even if you don't ask for it?" I think that sums it up pretty much. As long as it's done in a good way, it won't be a problem._


 
I will answer this. 

Yes they will canter with the right aids, however someone else on your horse could easily give a canter aid and not know it and may not be able to stay on the horse....a recipe for disaster.

I saw one girl get her head split open when she rode her friends horse and made a aid known to the horse and owner only. The horse galloped and the new rider had only just barely mounted and hadn't been prepared for the result. Not a happy end.:-(

As others have said, it is one thing to have professionals ( like the horse trainers in the movies for example) that work daily with horses at liberty but they know what they are doing and they enact safety precautions as well as no one else is allowed to handle them.


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## JustDressageIt

Generally those horses are never sold to the "general public" as well, Spyder


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## HorseLuva97

I don't exactly enjoy when a horse rears in front of me or while I'm on one so I can't really choose sides but I thinks its also dangerous to other people riding a horse that rears on cue.


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## claireauriga

I haven't read all the pages of this thread yet so I don't know if this has been said before, but here's my take on rearing on commmand.

The levade is the pinnacle of collection and control, right? It's a beautiful move requiring intense strength, control and communication from both horse and rider.

In contrast, rearing is a reaction based in fright, anger, pain or excitement. It is very unstable, and the horse may fall forwards, to the side, or backwards. They may dislodge, throw or crush the rider. They may strike out with their front legs.

Rearing is nothing like a levade; one is a beautiful display of equine power and the other is an unstable, panic-based movement that could seriously injure horse or rider even when done only on cue in a safe environmment.

It also seems unwise to me to teach a horse a dangerous behaviour. Would you train your horse to buck or kick out on command too?

It will also make the horse less attractive to later owners because there will always be a perception of an increased risk of the horse developing rearing as a dangerous habit.


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## Dumas'_Grrrl

Whether or not you choose to train your horse to rear is ultimately up to you. After witnessing a rearing horse flip over on a friend of ours, I would like to suggest you don't do it for the simple reason of safety.


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## appylover31803

I've read bits and pieces of this thread. I have not had the chance to witness the Spanish Riding school horses in action, but I have seen the World Famous Lipperzanner horses. Those horses are trained for a long time (I want to say 7-8 years) before they are ever seen in a show. So in that time, I'm sure they see where the horse excells and where it doesn't. When there were in hand and under saddles rears (they're called levedes correct?) There were only 2 or 3 horses that did it (I don't remember how many horses were there, but there were a lot) So to take a young horse and teach it to rear IMO is not a good idea, especially since your horse is still in training and was/or is green.

I also read in an article in a horse magazine about two women who made it onto the Spanish Riding School team. It said that right now they're just grooms and don't have any ridden time. They have to work their way up the ladder. So If the riders have to go through an extensive training program, I'm sure the horses do too.

Zab, You can do what you want, but I think the point that a lot of people are making is that it *is* dangerous. Horseback riding is a dangerous sport to be part of and to want to increase the chance of something going wrong could put your life/safety and your horse's life/safety all at risk.

All because a horse does something at liberty doesn't necessarily mean that you should just slap a command onto it and have the horse do it all the time. 
I don't remember who said it, but someone said that horses buck at liberty, but you dont see anyone teaching their horse to buck. I couldn't agree more with that.
There are so many behaviors I see my horses do while turned out that I would not want them to do while I'm on their backs.
Have I had a horse rear on me while undersaddle? Yes! Was it fun? No, not to me.
Have I had a horse rear on me while I was leading it? Yes again! Was it fun? No, it put myself at risk as well as anyone around me and anyone else that had to deal with my horse.

Please be safe when/if you decide to teach your guy to rear. I would hate to hear that something had happened to you.

ETA: I'm not sure if all the years that I've written down are correct, I was going off memory


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## claireauriga

It's been said before, but it really does bear repeating - *a rear is a totally different thing to a levade*. You cannot equate the two. The Spanish Riding School does not train horses to rear on command.


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## Zab

I can't say I'm going to teach him a levade because I can't claim that grade of collection yet, but I am going to teach him a controlld rearing.
Not any rushed ''high'' thing associated with stress or fear, but a calm, controlled rearing. And a fairly low one because I'm a coward  Just lifting the frontlegs basically.

He already rears on command from the ground, and he has never reared on me in any situation except when asked for. And that rearing is still more rushed than the ''from the back' ones. He's been rearing from the ground for more than a year and we've been through stressed situations there too. But he has never showed any sign of rearing as a way out of it - because he doesn't associate rearing on command with stress or fright.

It all depends on how you train it, not what you train.


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## LDblackhorse

thank you justdressageit.
I was having a hard time decribing the levade.

But I do thank all for backing me up.
I try not to disancourage any body for trying things but as my other counterparts said. Why teach the horse to rear. Because it is cool.
That is why when some one asks me to help them trick train there horse I refuse for the reasons I stated before.

I taught mine because he is trained for commercials and for charity events. But the place I rode at was also a classical riding school. 
And as I mentioned earlier I had an experianced person guiding me.

If you even get a video how to trick train your horses the perfesonal will even say he does not teach the rear up. Unless he thinks the horse is ready and he is sure the horse is listening to him. that was said by a perfesonal hollywood horse trainer.

But as someone else said keep in mind of other people that have to handle or ride your horse. Some places will ask you to leave if the horse becomes a problem or hurts some body riding. With the way poeple sue people now a days you need to be careful.

As I said before take care and good luck you are going to do what you are going to no matter what any one says. But all I say is be careful


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## JustDressageIt

Zab said:


>


Even here your horse does not look to be relaxed. See the tense back and neck? The eye? The head? The position of the horse's legs don't suggest balance either. 
As a horseperson, I think it's silly to teach a horse to rear... and I react the same way for nearly everyone - there are the few who trick-train because it's their job, and they KNOW how to train it, and that horse will generally always be in the industry. 
I think the levade is stunning, because it is the purest form of collection. As some have said, it takes years upon years upon years for a horse to go through rigerous _dressage_ training to get to the point where it can do a levade. And even then, not all horses are taught to do it, only the ones with the correct minds and body structure get to do the levade. 

REAL levade:




^See how the horse's center of balance is still in the middle? This is collection to a T. It's not balancing on its haunces entirely, it's using its abdomen and back muscles to pull its front legs off the ground... stunning.

Rearing under saddle, "on command":




See the difference? The lack of balance? The horse is throwing itself in the air, and doesn't look pleased. If this horse got sold on and somehow ended up with me, and I didn't know about this "trick" and I used my voice command for canter.. I would be in for a shock.




Similar to your command, having hands 5" above your "normal" riding stance.
Problem is, if your horse EVER gets sold on as a "beginner friendly" horse, people DO ride like that. And they do occasionally use the word "up."




The title says it all - "Horse Acting Up and Rearing On Command" - uhhh... wow. See the horse charge at her? He's using his new trick to become dominant, see how she reacted? She stepped away... Horse won! This is the stupidest way to teach a horse - having it run towards you while giving the command? 



As for people commenting about not making their horse buck:
REAL capriole:




^ Notice the horse jumps up, and kicks out with its hind legs. Also notice the riders position is impeccable throughout. 
"Capriole" done by amateur:




This is not a capriole. It's a horse that's been taught it's okay to buck and misbehave. The horse is not doing a levade either, it's rearing up, there is no collection involved. People like me are disgusted by people like this. 


I do not think any of that is cool. 
Yes, it's neat on the big screen, because those horses are trained by professionals that know their stuff inside and out and backwards again. That you're asking how to give a command, and how to teach it should be your first clue not to do it. 
When I see amateurs teaching this stuff, I shake my head, and I do judge them. You may not care about this right now... but word gets around in the industry.


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## appylover31803

Great videos JDI!

The capriole is one amazing move those horses do!

I know from first hand experience, that when you're got expecting a rear and a back what can happen...




Now if he would have been trained by someone to try and recreate a Levade and capriole.. I would have been in for one shock of my life!


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## mayfieldk

I'm assuming the poster left, because she does not like dealing with reality.

Training a horse to rear is dumb, and not just in my opinion. And if your 'talented trainer' thinks okay, then he/she is not a very talented horse person.

Training them to rear is dangerous. And not for /you/, love, but the horse. When a horse REARS (not levade or Pesade), they are very unbalanced. It is very easy for them to a) flip backwards b) fall sideways. Not just an 'accident', my dear, but DANGEROUS. THIS is why rearing is such a bad habit and people do not like buying/training/fixing it. Because horses never really 'get trained out of it', and it is SO dangerous for the rider AND the horse. THAT is why you are so foolish--because you want to make your horse do a little 'trick' so you can look strong and powerful.

'*Just like he knows how to canter, just because I teac him a cue for it doesn't mean he'll keep cantering whenever he feels like it..''

*Dear, just HOW many horses have you ridden? I know and have ridden a TON of horses that 'canter when they feel like it', or 'trot when they feel like it', or buck, gallop, whatEVER when they feel like it.

*'He has reared pretty high with a rider before (in a controlled but not-allowed way..), when he got confused in the start, so he knows very well how to rear. He hasnt done it since and all it took to stop him was a firm no and command forward.'*

He doesn't rear because you taught him not to, good. But by teaching him to do it on command, he is learning that it may be an acceptable way to avoid work, to being confused/scared. Yes. That is what happens. If you think otherwise, then I'm assuming you've only worked with dead-broke or lazy horses.

*'I know my horse, I'm sure of my method, and horse people ''like you'' need to learn that there is nothing wrong you can teach a horse, you can just teach it the wrong way.'*

Just because you teach it right you think the horse will just magically listen to whatever you say? There's a reason why only a few trainers get paid BIG bucks. Because it's HARD.

*'An if, just f, I get a problem with him not being able to tell the differenses, I'll train him out of it'*

No, you won't. Training him to rear is giving him the greenlight to do it later. Once it becomes a 'problem', you are NEVER going to train it out of him. This is why, like stated previously, trainers hate getting in horses that rear. It is such a terrible vice that a horse learns.

You can go ahead and teach your pony to rear if you want. Just don't kick yourself in the butt later when you're sitting in the hospital with a broken ribcage because the saddle horn hit it when he fell on you.


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## Zab

Justdressageit: If you had cared to read: "_it's not good, I want him to have his face more relaxed, not thrown upwards. I don't have any better or newer tho" _I'm aware of it. My point is; that's how high I want it. He's not near flipping over there. And he's tense because he did it by throwing himself up in the air instead of slowly raising. But at least you have a different point; it's not good for him to do it that unbalanced, especially with a rider.

(to everyone)
We have been doing that for a year, and he still has never attampted to rear when I havn't asked him, no matter the situation. And I've worked him from ground too, shoulder ins, shoulder outs etc. Never protested by rearing. From the saddle, I'm doing it in a better way, I can controle him better there and I'm not allowing him to throw himself up. Or do it when he's stressed. If he gets stressed, I quit before he's close to rearing, because I don't want him to associate it with stress. I'm consistent with not letting him do it to get out of work. I'm not going to let him do it high enough to be close to flip over.
As we train now, he puts his hindlegs far under himself (under the middle of the saddle) and slowly lifts his frontlegs about an inch. Not throwing his head or his body up like when it's done from the ground. We take it slow, in babysteps. It's more like a levade than a rearing as we train it now (yes, I didn't get it quite right from the ground, but still; it has never been dangerous, just not pretty and probably not too good on his body.) I have a picture of it but I won't show it since you'll surely find a lot of awful mistakes anyway  Like that he this time tucked his nose in too much. Or that my seat isn't right.

But can you answer me this: How come so many of my friends that have rearing horses, doesn't have a problem with them? They're not professional trick trainers.

And why would he suddenly start using this to avoid work when he's not the kind of horse that tries to avoid work, and he hasn't done anything like it before?
How come he doesn't attack me all the time from the ground, despite that rearing even being rushed and bad? (because I know it is) And why would he do it because it's taught from the saddle?
Why would he start doing it when he gets stressed, or assosiate it with sress and fear, when he's never trained in such situation?

And about the _"I know and have ridden a TON of horses that 'canter when they feel like it', or 'trot when they feel like it', or buck, gallop, whatEVER when they feel like it." _Shouldn't that mean it's dangerous to teach them to canter? (If they buck whenever they feel like it.. did anyone teach them to buck?) We shouldn't do that either then. Is it so hard to see that it's the same thing? They run when they're scared, that comes far before rearing when they're scared. Still we teach them to run on command. And if they run off with us, we blame the training, not the fact that he's taught to run. But if a horse is taught to rear, and rears in the wrong time, we say it's because it's taught to rear and because it's natural for them to rear at the wrong time.. And it's not strange that a higher % of rearing horses gets uncontrolled= people are often less consistent, or they can't find information on how to do it right because it's ''forbidden'' to teach...

Anyway, it doesn't matter what I say, you'll still think I'll end up in hospital. 
Me and my instructor doesn't.


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## mayfieldk

'And about the _"I know and have ridden a TON of horses that 'canter when they feel like it', or 'trot when they feel like it', or buck, gallop, whatEVER when they feel like it." _Shouldn't that mean it's dangerous to teach them to canter?'

Logic is way off on this one, honey. Cantering isn't dangerous, they're not unbalanced. Rearing = unbalanced. Horses were made to work on four legs, not two.

'I have a picture of it but I won't show it since you'll surely find a lot of awful mistakes anyway'

That's a great idea, avoid the problem!

'But can you answer me this: How come so many of my friends that have rearing horses, doesn't have a problem with them? They're not professional trick trainers.'

All it takes is once.

'And why would he suddenly start using this to avoid work when he's not the kind of horse that tries to avoid work, and he hasn't done anything like it before?'

Because you're training him how to do it?

'They run when they're scared, that comes far before rearing when they're scared.'

Again, how many horse's have you ridden? They don't all run before they're scared--I've been on several where the prime mode of fear was to rear. But, you know, since YOU'VE never seen it, and your friends have never seen it, then I suppose that it's not true. (Take a statistics class, because your logic is terribly faulty.)

'Anyway, it doesn't matter what I say, you'll still think I'll end up in hospital.'

Sure do.  That, or your horse will slip and fall. But if you think it's so 'pretty and boootioful and strong', then go ahead. I'm sure when it happens, you won't be telling any of us, either.


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## Zab

BTW, why on earth are you trying to teach me what a ''real levade'' is? I've never claimed us to do a levade.

But it's still my firm belief that any thing that is taught in a calm, controlled and consistent way is ok.

If I could imagine a calm and controlled bucking, I wouldn't think it was dangerous to teach that either if it was done in the right way. But I can't imagine a calm, controled buck.. I can easly imagine a calm rearing.


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## Zab

mayfieldk said:


> 'And about the _"I know and have ridden a TON of horses that 'canter when they feel like it', or 'trot when they feel like it', or buck, gallop, whatEVER when they feel like it." _Shouldn't that mean it's dangerous to teach them to canter?'
> 
> Logic is way off on this one, honey. Cantering isn't dangerous, they're not unbalanced. Rearing = unbalanced. Horses were made to work on four legs, not two.
> 
> *Rearing doesn't have to be unbalanced.*_ Levade is a balanced rearing. Still not claiming we're doing levades, just an example of a balanced rearing._
> 
> 'I have a picture of it but I won't show it since you'll surely find a lot of awful mistakes anyway'
> 
> That's a great idea, avoid the problem!
> 
> *Why would I show it? I know it's not 100% perfect because we're beginners at it. And since you guys has determined he must be stresed, you'll see stress in him even if they're none.*
> 
> 'But can you answer me this: How come so many of my friends that have rearing horses, doesn't have a problem with them? They're not professional trick trainers.'
> 
> All it takes is once.
> 
> *Yeah, because after 5-7 years* *they'll suddenly rear* *and kill the rider...* *and they would of course not have done it if they wern't taught a command for it, if it would happen...*
> 
> 'And why would he suddenly start using this to avoid work when he's not the kind of horse that tries to avoid work, and he hasn't done anything like it before?'
> 
> Because you're training him how to do it?
> 
> *Uhm.. he's a horse, he knows how to rear. I promise you. How come so many horses not trained to rear, still rears when they can't run away from the work?*
> 
> 'They run when they're scared, that comes far before rearing when they're scared.'
> 
> Again, how many horse's have you ridden? They don't all run before they're scared--I've been on several where the prime mode of fear was to rear. But, you know, since YOU'VE never seen it, and your friends have never seen it, then I suppose that it's not true. (Take a statistics class, because your logic is terribly faulty.)
> 
> *The natural thing for a scared horse is to run. If they can't run and is scared enough, they rear. Some horses has been trained in a way that makes them 'forget' to try and run first. Or they're protesting badly. *
> 
> 'Anyway, it doesn't matter what I say, you'll still think I'll end up in hospital.'
> 
> Sure do.  That, or your horse will slip and fall. But if you think it's so 'pretty and boootioful and strong', then go ahead. I'm sure when it happens, you won't be telling any of us, either.


Of course I will. I learn from my mistakes, you know.. and I'm not afraid of admitting them. I've done plenty of them already. And I don't spell beautiful like that either.


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## Zab

Ok, I'll show the picture.
*Before you say anything*; yes I know it's not perfect. Yet. I'll explain what I think about these attempts.
If you think he looks stressed... well he's not. Think what you want.

I don't want him to rear higher than that, from here I just want him to lift his frontlegs. Maybe raise his back an inch, but not more.

In the big picture, I took too much on the curb (hackamore) rein, realized it and released, but he had already tucked his nose in and it just caused me to fail with my balance. On the small picture he has started to lift his one front leg.. tht's about how far we have come. Once or twice he has tried to push off and get higher up, but I've told him off for it and he has stopped trying. If we ever do get higher some day, it'll be after he can keep his balance here and when we're ready for it. Maybe in a few years. Maybe never. I don't really care much for the height. But for now, I'm not allowing anything higher than this.

What happens is that when I give the cue, he starts with putting his hindlegs under himself, then waits for me to lift/squeese the rein and say 'up'' before he puts the weight off the frontlegs.










But I really didn't start this thread to get told off or warned, I've already made up my mind, I have an experienced trainer by my side in this. I wanted top hear what cues people used.


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## Spyder

Zab

You have proven to me that you really don't care what others say and that you will do whatever you feel you want to. First with the chains on the front legs ... now with the rearing.

Your best bet is to simply go do what you will and not bother to ask us to waste our time explaining the dangers and foolishness of your actions.


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## Zab

Spyder said:


> Zab
> 
> You have proven to me that you really don't care what others say and that you will do whatever you feel you want to. First with the chains on the front legs ... now with the rearing.
> 
> Your best bet is to simply go do what you will and not bother to ask us to waste our time explaining the dangers and foolishness of your actions.


? I've never used any chains on his legs. I did put on light, decorative leather bracelets, that made absolutely no differense at all in how he moved. I did it twice, I might do it again if I'm going for a photoshoot and have other matching tack, but I don't use them in training.

And I havn't asked anyone to ''explain the dangers or foolishness of my actions'' in this thread, I asked people that had taught their horses to rear what cues they use. There is a differense.

________________________

Because I was going to post this anyway, nothing to d with Spyders post:

And a drawing of how I'd like it to be, and is aiming for, and slowly coming closer.. The small photo is visible under it.
It's closer to a levade than a ''big, uncontrolled'' rearig, but it's not coming from collection and he's not well educated enough for it to be a real levade.


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## Skyhuntress

I simply don't understand why you'd want to teach a horse to rear on command. I really don't. It's like teaching a dog to bite on command. Sure, its cool. Until it goes horribly wrong and someone gets injured. 

Here's my advice: wear a helmet. Hopefully then we don't have to spend taxpayer dollars trying to piece you back together again when things ultimately do go wrong.


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## JustDressageIt

I am at work and so can't respond in detail... but regarding levades-you were comparing your training to the Spanish School. What they do and what you do are not comparable and I was illustrating that point.
The other vids show how silly it looks to me.
I will respond to your other inquiries later.


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## Zab

Skyhuntress said:


> I simply don't understand why you'd want to teach a horse to rear on command. I really don't. It's like teaching a dog to bite on command. Sure, its cool. Until it goes horribly wrong and someone gets injured.
> 
> Here's my advice: wear a helmet. Hopefully then we don't have to spend taxpayer dollars trying to piece you back together again when things ultimately do go wrong.


Why do you want to ride? You can fall off. = you do it just because you want, why do I need a better reason for this than for anything else? Bedes, I've already said I won't take that argument to discussion, so I won't say more now.

I do wear a helmet, in case you didn't see. And don't worry, unless you pay taxes to sweden you won't have to spend a dollar in taxmoney if I would get injured.

Btw, my dog bites on command too. But only in socks when we play tug of war.


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## Zab

JustDressageIt said:


> I am at work and so can't respond in detail... but regarding levades-you were comparing your training to the Spanish School. What they do and what you do are not comparable and I was illustrating that point.
> The other vids show how silly it looks to me.
> I will respond to your other inquiries later.


Yes, because they have a controlled rearing, not because I was teaching a levade. I wasn't comparing it to the spanish riding school (well, not this part of my training at least even if I do train for a rider from that school a few times per year) I was simply using an example for a calm, controlled rearing.

No need to; as I said many times now; I didn't start this thread to get warned but to see what cues other people use for this command. So please don't blame me for not listening to the warnings, I never asked for them.
None of these arguments is new, it's always the same old ''he's gonna start rearing with you all the time'' stuff. I still doesn't believe that because I know too many horses that can rear on command that doesn't do it all the time.. and I've noticed diferenses in the training between them and those that does start rearing uncontrolled.
The only new argument was actually yours; that it's unhealthy for him to do it in the way he does when he rears from the ground. You have a point there. But he does it much differently with a rider and I'll re-train the ground part too I think, so he does it in a better way.
But of course, if you have more new arguments against it, that isn't ''he'll do it all the time'', it's worth reading.


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## JustDressageIt

Actually I do.
It is very stressful on a horse's joints and muscular structure ~ especially when not taught in sequence of proper collection.


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## Spyder

Zab said:


> I didn't start this thread to get warned but to see what cues other people use for this command. So please don't blame me for not listening to the warnings, I never asked for them.


When you start a thread you will get all sorts of answers, many which you will not like. This is the nature of a message board. You will get answers that will directly answer your questions as well as point out various other aspects to that question. 

You just have to learn that you cannot control how others will react, other than watch what you say in response.


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## Zab

Spyder said:


> When you start a thread you will get all sorts of answers, many which you will not like. This is the nature of a message board. You will get answers that will directly answer your questions as well as point out various other aspects to that question.
> 
> You just have to learn that you cannot control how others will react, other than watch what you say in response.


I havn't yelled at anyone yet, you're the one coming in here telling me off for not listening to advices I've already said I wasn't interested in.


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## SuspiciousInnocence

I must say i do kinda agree with the original poster on this one.. Im kinda on the fence, but she has some good points. 

And this is HER horse and like she sed she wont be selling him so why does it matter to everyone else?


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## Zab

JustDressageIt said:


> Actually I do.
> It is very stressful on a horse's joints and muscular structure ~ especially when not taught in sequence of proper collection.


You've said that. But everything is stressful for the body - if you do it too much. Once won't hurt him, and twice won't. If I did it every day, several times without allowing his body to adapt to the weight and new pressure, he'd of course get hurt.

But it's not more stressful for his body than jumping is for an untrained horse. And the better he gets at it, the more balance and collection he'll have while doing it.. as I've said, I'm not training for him to throw himself up, but for raising slowly and in balance. I can't force him to do that (_like I could force him to rear up by tugging the reins hard enough, if I wanted_), and he can't do it by himself untill he's strong enough. It's not like I don't know that the reason he won't lift his fronthooves yet is because he's not strong enough to do it without ''pushing off'' with them and throw himself up. But training in small doses will eventually give him the strength, and if I'm careful enough, his joints and skeleton will have time to get the strength too.

But I'm not (rushing things and training several times a day, or even once a day..). I've trained at three occasions since a few days before this thread started, and then I've done it one to three times per occasion. Mostly I do ''normal'' things with him. I'll go on a journey soon, and then he'll get a complete rest for a few weeks. When I come back, I'll take it even more easy on him.

But you've made me think more about the ground thing, fortunatly I havn't asked that of him very much either.


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## Zab

SuspiciousInnocence said:


> I must say i do kinda agree with the original poster on this one.. Im kinda on the fence, but she has some good points.
> 
> And this is HER horse and like she sed she wont be selling him so why does it matter to everyone else?


Thank you 
You might not agree with me, but at least you have an open mind and read what I write.


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## Kura

Okay, I think this needs to be said...

The posts in this thread have become increasingly repetitive. Zab has already made arguments for each and every one of the critiques on her decision to teach Crow to rear, even though she shouldn't have to.

Perhaps someone should read the beginning post again, but *this thread was not made to be a critique on her decision to teach a horse to rear. This thread was made to find some helpful information on cues to rear.*

Personally, I'm disappointed in the people on this forum for coming down so hard on her. It is HER horse. It is HER personal business. She did not ask for everyone and their grandmothers' to tell her she is wrong or stupid for doing this. She came seeking advice and instead got hostility. It makes me question my original feeling that this forum was different from the others. That maybe this forum was one where people saw clearly, instead of pushing aside the real question being asked just to put their own two cents worth in, whether it's welcome or not.

Please, will someone bring this thread back on track instead of continuing the repeated abuse? I've noticed a few people have actually answered the question (a miracle, apparently), and to them I give five million gold stars. I only wish I could do the same, but sadly I have no expertise on this subject since I have enough trouble getting the time to try the simplest tricks with my own dear boy. 

I will say this, though: I support Zab's decision to teach him this. She knows her horse better than I, or anyone else, and she realizes the inherent risks involved with teaching anything of this nature to a horse. It's dangerous just to get up in the saddle, and she knows this too.


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## Zab

Thanks Kura


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## Spyder

Kura said:


> Okay, I think this needs to be said...
> 
> The posts in this thread have become increasingly repetitive. Zab has already made arguments for each and every one of the critiques on her decision to teach Crow to rear, even though she shouldn't have to.
> 
> Perhaps someone should read the beginning post again, but *this thread was not made to be a critique on her decision to teach a horse to rear. This thread was made to find some helpful information on cues to rear.*
> 
> Personally, I'm disappointed in the people on this forum for coming down so hard on her. It is HER horse. It is HER personal business. She did not ask for everyone and their grandmothers' to tell her she is wrong or stupid for doing this. She came seeking advice and instead got hostility. It makes me question my original feeling that this forum was different from the others. That maybe this forum was one where people saw clearly, instead of pushing aside the real question being asked just to put their own two cents worth in, whether it's welcome or not.
> 
> Please, will someone bring this thread back on track instead of continuing the repeated abuse? I've noticed a few people have actually answered the question (a miracle, apparently), and to them I give five million gold stars. I only wish I could do the same, but sadly I have no expertise on this subject since I have enough trouble getting the time to try the simplest tricks with my own dear boy.
> 
> I will say this, though: I support Zab's decision to teach him this. She knows her horse better than I, or anyone else, and she realizes the inherent risks involved with teaching anything of this nature to a horse. It's dangerous just to get up in the saddle, and she knows this too.


I feel that most people here reacted in the same way they would have if someone who never fired a gun comes to a message board and asked them how to fire it. It is dangerous because of the nature of the weapon and the inability and inexperience of the gun owner. To give instructions on how to do something dangerous no matter WHAT it is, would in my mind make the people telling that person how, as responsible for the outcome as the person handling the dangerous object, be it gun or horse.

Sorry but if Zab wants to teach the horse to rear get an experienced trick trainer to teach her.


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## Kura

Spyder, though you have made a point, this point has been continually made. I see no reason to repeatedly tell her this. She has told you and everyone else that she is going to continue in this training numerous times, with or without anyone's consent or "well-meant" advice. It would be much better to simply leave her be and let those who actually know something give her the advice she wants. Otherwise, words are being wasted, as well as time.


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## Zab

Spyder said:


> I feel that most people here reacted in the same way they would have if someone who never fired a gun comes to a message board and asked them how to fire it. It is dangerous because of the nature of the weapon and the inability and inexperience of the gun owner. To give instructions on how to do something dangerous no matter WHAT it is, would in my mind make the people telling that person how, as responsible for the outcome as the person handling the dangerous object, be it gun or horse.
> 
> Sorry but if Zab wants to teach the horse to rear get an experienced trick trainer to teach her.


I'm not asking instructions either. I'm asking what cues people use, not how they taught it. If you had read, you'd see I already knew how to train it. You can teach a horse, or other animal, to do something on any cue you want, it has nothing to do with how you teach them to do it.

And I do have an experienced instructor by my side.

And comparing this with firing a gun is rather silly. Especially since I didn't ask instructions.


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## upsidedown

I've been really trying to keep myself from joining in. 

While I would never teach my horse to rear I don't think such a big deal should be made *for this case*. Zab appears to know her horse, and knows what she's doing and is not asking for a full blown rear. I do think its fine to state your opinion on the matter but she has (and rather politely due to the situation) responded and by continuing to do so you are not doing anything to help the situation. You will not talk her out of it.

I do not approve of teaching full blown rears, I think its fine to teach a horse to have a calm, controlled, low rear. 

Also so "counting" with the hoof, a so called "safe" trick is one of the most common that gets out of control and leads to pawing. But people will still continue to teach it just as the continue to teach horses to rear.


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## JustDressageIt

Okay, but you're missing my point.
The way you want your horse to rear is akin to the levade. It's easy for a horse to rear up. It's hard for it to lift itself into a levade. You can do very extensive muscular and ligament damage by asking a horse to do something it's not ready for. The levade is a VERY advanced move.
You said you're asking your horse to rear by balancing on its haunches and pulling its front legs up - you have just drescribed a leavade. 
It takes YEARS of dressage training (training you have said your horse doesn't have) to get to the point where your horse is a) balanced and b) strong enough to actually do this move correctly and without hurting itself.
It's like me trying to do en pointe ballet without any training - I am very liable to injure myself!

.. I hope I've made my point clear now.

Zab, it is your horse, and we've butted heads quite a lot in the past, I hope you're careful and decide to train more on collection before you or your horse hurts itself.

I am done with this thread, if you would like to discuss my point, please PM me, I would be more than happy to continue discussing this, but outside of this thread in private.
Thank you.


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## mayfieldk

Have to agree completely with JustDressageIt. You want a levade, but you're training it in a backyard manner which is just going to put strain on joints that haven't been properly conditioned.

If you want a Levade, why don't you just start doing classical dressage and work towards that?

...Oh, because that's a lot longer.


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## ShowJumpLife

okay dokay
My mate whos mare was taught to rear on command reared on comand and just as she reared a duck came hurtling out of the bushes towards the horse, the horse freaked and shyed, lost ballance and flipped sideways and slid down an enbankment, horse was put down due to a broken leg and rider was hospitalised with a broken pelvis, bruised ribs, broken collarbone, 2 broken arms a broken leg and a shatterd ankle as the horse had rolled over her. Friend no longer rides as her horse was her one in a million horse and she couldnt bare to ride any other horse, she was completlty heartbroken. This horse was amazing, never reared under ANY circumstances unless asked, would do anything for her owner, it was a freak accident and the poor horse lost her life due to it. But my point is. Even if our horse never rears without your permisson, etc it can still go wrong.

I know you said we train our horses to canter but they dont always canter, If my horse canters when Im riding when I dont ask its not that bigger deal, if my horse were to rear without me asking.. not that i ever ask him to rear, it is a big deal as it is dangerous.

You say you wont LET your horse rear high enough to flip over? When hes in mid rear how are you going to stop him from going higher? especailly when your on his back, you cant pull the reins.. unless you want him to flip over that is, so what are yo going to do?

just my oppinion.


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## Zab

ShowJumpLife said:


> okay dokay
> My mate whos mare was taught to rear on command reared on comand and just as she reared a duck came hurtling out of the bushes towards the horse, the horse freaked and shyed, lost ballance and flipped sideways and slid down an enbankment, horse was put down due to a broken leg and rider was hospitalised with a broken pelvis, bruised ribs, broken collarbone, 2 broken arms a broken leg and a shatterd ankle as the horse had rolled over her. Friend no longer rides as her horse was her one in a million horse and she couldnt bare to ride any other horse, she was completlty heartbroken. This horse was amazing, never reared under ANY circumstances unless asked, would do anything for her owner, it was a freak accident and the poor horse lost her life due to it. But my point is. Even if our horse never rears without your permisson, etc it can still go wrong.
> 
> I know you said we train our horses to canter but they dont always canter, If my horse canters when Im riding when I dont ask its not that bigger deal, if my horse were to rear without me asking.. not that i ever ask him to rear, it is a big deal as it is dangerous.
> 
> You say you wont LET your horse rear high enough to flip over? When hes in mid rear how are you going to stop him from going higher? especailly when your on his back, you cant pull the reins.. unless you want him to flip over that is, so what are yo going to do?
> 
> just my oppinion.


This far, when he wants to go higher, he has stopped when I told him not to. If he keeps trying to go higher and higher and I don't find a way to keep him low, I'm not going to hesitate about quitting the rearing training in all.
There is always a risk that a horse might rear too high and flip over, but I fail to see how that risk increases by teaching the horse to do a well balanced rear that's no higher than a sequene in the canter and is not associated with stress or fear.

As long as the rearing is that low, it's not that impossible to get him off balance to the side by pulling one rein outwards/back and force him down. If it gets much higher, that could cause him to fall over back or to the side, but not when it's low as that.

And all riding can go wrong. I'm sorry about her and her horse, but that it happened during a rear is a coincidence. It could have happened in a jump, during a gallop or anything, and the result might have been the same.


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## Zab

JustDressageIt said:


> Okay, but you're missing my point.
> The way you want your horse to rear is akin to the levade. It's easy for a horse to rear up. It's hard for it to lift itself into a levade. You can do very extensive muscular and ligament damage by asking a horse to do something it's not ready for. The levade is a VERY advanced move.
> You said you're asking your horse to rear by balancing on its haunches and pulling its front legs up - you have just drescribed a leavade.
> It takes YEARS of dressage training (training you have said your horse doesn't have) to get to the point where your horse is a) balanced and b) strong enough to actually do this move correctly and without hurting itself.
> It's like me trying to do en pointe ballet without any training - I am very liable to injure myself!
> 
> .. I hope I've made my point clear now.
> 
> Zab, it is your horse, and we've butted heads quite a lot in the past, I hope you're careful and decide to train more on collection before you or your horse hurts itself.
> 
> I am done with this thread, if you would like to discuss my point, please PM me, I would be more than happy to continue discussing this, but outside of this thread in private.
> Thank you.


No, I do see your point but I don't agree with it being as harmful as you think (in this case at least). Calm moves doesn't injure the body, unless you do them too much. I'm not training it much, I'm not asking him for more than he can. And each time he just lifts that one hoof an inch, he trains the muscle (also the ones around and protecting the joints) and prepares his body for the real thing. I'm in no hurry, it can take months, or years but I'm not gonna rush him to do a ''levade'' and stand in it.

I won't call it a levade because then I'll get more people hitting my head than I've had already.

We're working on dressage too, not english dressage but ''ridkonst'' dressage. My trainer agrees with me that it's ok for him to do it and that it won't hurt him as long as I don't do it too much.


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## Zab

mayfieldk said:


> Have to agree completely with JustDressageIt. You want a levade, but you're training it in a backyard manner which is just going to put strain on joints that haven't been properly conditioned.
> 
> If you want a Levade, why don't you just start doing classical dressage and work towards that?
> 
> ...Oh, because that's a lot longer.


No, not because that's longer. And we are training dressage (previous post).
Maybe I'm dong it in my backyard, but it's not like I havn't thought it over and isn't careful about it.

My goal is actually a terre-a-terre in the cassical dressage.. I'm not sure I'll get there but I have a goal. And this rearing is not part of that goal.


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## Zab

upsidedown said:


> I've been really trying to keep myself from joining in.
> 
> While I would never teach my horse to rear I don't think such a big deal should be made *for this case*. Zab appears to know her horse, and knows what she's doing and is not asking for a full blown rear. I do think its fine to state your opinion on the matter but she has (and rather politely due to the situation) responded and by continuing to do so you are not doing anything to help the situation. You will not talk her out of it.
> 
> I do not approve of teaching full blown rears, I think its fine to teach a horse to have a calm, controlled, low rear.
> 
> Also so "counting" with the hoof, a so called "safe" trick is one of the most common that gets out of control and leads to pawing. But people will still continue to teach it just as the continue to teach horses to rear.


Thank you


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## farmpony84

When mine go's up w/out permission I can take my knuckle and jam it just above the withers (in his spine). It causes discomfort and he USUALLY will come back down. It's not a100% fool proof technique but it's helpful.....


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## Zab

farmpony84 said:


> When mine go's up w/out permission I can take my knuckle and jam it just above the withers (in his spine). It causes discomfort and he USUALLY will come back down. It's not a100% fool proof technique but it's helpful.....


Thanks for the tip.
Not the thing I'd do, but as a last resort it might be good to have back in the head somewhere.


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## onetoomany

I agree with JDI and mayfieldk in saying attempting to get your horse to rear in that low, balanced stance you are attempting a move very close to the levade. I also agree with them that doing such without a horse that hasn't had years of extensive training in collection could be harmful for a horse that isn't in the proper form. You keep saying that you don't think it'll be harmful for him as you'll be doing the movement for short periods of time and not in repitition, however, have you ever done yoga? Or better yet, have you ever done yoga that is too advanced for you? Same concept, yoga requires extreme muscle control and by attempting a pose that is too advanced can result in injury. I've done this personally and I pulled a muscle and it only took once. Yes, maybe if your horse gets injured it won't be life threatening and maybe it is something that will heal up in a couple of weeks but you will have caused your horse to injure itself unnecessarily.


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## Zab

I really don't think that's a risk, by reasons alredy stated, and neither does my instructor.
But if, just if, it would happen, as you say it's not life threathening and it would heal fairly quickly. And I'd get a lesson and learn from it, and stop doing that excercise. But I just really don't think it'll happen or else I of course wouldn't proceed.

*Now, please, as you all have bashed my head at least once each about how bad I am and why I shouldn't do this, can we leave the thread to it's original purpose? 
Anyone with rearing horses, what command do you use?* And if you want; has it lead to any mishaps because the command wasn't as foolproof as you thought or anything else that has to do with the command?
You can send a PM


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## farmpony84

I put my heels in front of the girths and pull back and click. I control the height with the length of time that I pull back on the reigns. When I release, he comes back down. But as I've said. I have had issues, for instance, it takes a moment for him to realize I want him to side pass rather then rear and that command is very different, he just gets confused. I have to say SIDE when I want him to side pass and then switching directions will also confuse him for a moment. he's never confused the back though.


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## Marecare

I am glad that you brought this topic up Zab as I have been looking for extra training cues also for my trick that I am planning.

I am training my reining horse to bungee jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and I am looking for some verbal commands to help him.
Maybe I could use some of the same ones you are using.

Thanks


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## Spyder

Marecare said:


> I am glad that you brought this topic up Zab as I have been looking for extra training cues also for my trick that I am planning.
> 
> I am training my reining horse to bungee jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and I am looking for some verbal commands to help him.
> Maybe I could use some of the same ones you are using.
> 
> Thanks


Hey I tried that. Unfortunately the bungee didn't hold and the horse went into the drink. Fortunately he knew how to swim. Unfortunately a boat ran over him. Fortunately he ducked in time. Unfortunately he did duck far enough. Fortunately the boat had life preservers. Unfortunately I hadn't taught him how to put them over his head so unfortunately he drowned.

Sorry but this thread needed some lightening up.


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## JustDressageIt

Spyder said:


> Hey I tried that. Unfortunately the bungee didn't hold and the horse went into the drink. Fortunately he knew how to swim. Unfortunately a boat ran over him. Fortunately he ducked in time. Unfortunately he did duck far enough. Fortunately the boat had life preservers. Unfortunately I hadn't taught him how to put them over his head so unfortunately he drowned.
> 
> Sorry but this thread needed some lightening up.


 
:lol: Hahahaha too funny


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## onetoomany

Spyder said:


> Hey I tried that. Unfortunately the bungee didn't hold and the horse went into the drink. Fortunately he knew how to swim. Unfortunately a boat ran over him. Fortunately he ducked in time. Unfortunately he did duck far enough. Fortunately the boat had life preservers. Unfortunately I hadn't taught him how to put them over his head so unfortunately he drowned.
> 
> Sorry but this thread needed some lightening up.


Fortunately one of the male sailors on the boat knew CPR, unfortunately he didn't feel comfortable kissing a male horse.


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## NewHeart

Spyder said:


> Hey I tried that. Unfortunately the bungee didn't hold and the horse went into the drink. Fortunately he knew how to swim. Unfortunately a boat ran over him. Fortunately he ducked in time. Unfortunately he did duck far enough. Fortunately the boat had life preservers. Unfortunately I hadn't taught him how to put them over his head so unfortunately he drowned.
> 
> Sorry but this thread needed some lightening up.


Ha! That made my evening.


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## Kianne

Bungee jump of the Golden Gate Bridge?? :? Could you explain?


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## JustDressageIt

It was a joke...


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## Kianne

oh...this is definatly embarrassing...


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## Spyder

Kianne said:


> oh...this is definatly embarrassing...


Don't be. I just "enhanced" it.


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## Kianne

^heehee, thanks. Hopefully i'll laugh about it later.


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## farmpony84

Spyder said:


> Hey I tried that. Unfortunately the bungee didn't hold and the horse went into the drink. Fortunately he knew how to swim. Unfortunately a boat ran over him. Fortunately he ducked in time. Unfortunately he did duck far enough. Fortunately the boat had life preservers. Unfortunately I hadn't taught him how to put them over his head so unfortunately he drowned.
> 
> Sorry but this thread needed some lightening up.


 
SPyder... that was a very sad story... I hope you were able to get over that horrific mishap and move on. Please understand... it was not your fault.... who could have known there would be a rubber boat passing through right at that very instant??


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## Zab

Marecare said:


> I am glad that you brought this topic up Zab as I have been looking for extra training cues also for my trick that I am planning.
> 
> I am training my reining horse to bungee jump off the Golden Gate Bridge and I am looking for some verbal commands to help him.
> Maybe I could use some of the same ones you are using.
> 
> Thanks


Of course you can. Just make sure he doesn't confuse them with jumping normal obstacles. And teach him the right way.


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## Zab

farmpony84 said:


> I put my heels in front of the girths and pull back and click. I control the height with the length of time that I pull back on the reigns. When I release, he comes back down. But as I've said. I have had issues, for instance, it takes a moment for him to realize I want him to side pass rather then rear and that command is very different, he just gets confused. I have to say SIDE when I want him to side pass and then switching directions will also confuse him for a moment. he's never confused the back though.


Thank you


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## Marecare

Well Zab,
In the immortal words of "The Lone Ranger"


"Hi OH Silver!"




Come Tonto I we must go help other people that are in need.


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## Spyder

farmpony84 said:


> SPyder... that was a very sad story... I hope you were able to get over that horrific mishap and move on. Please understand... it was not your fault.... who could have known there would be a rubber boat passing through right at that very instant??


It was so sad...poor baby but I hve a new one now and am teaching him to use a hand glider...........


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## Zab

_Since I wasn't allowed to express myself freely without having my post removed, when I finally lost my patiense, I'll just repost it censored:_

Anyway, since most of you guys has too little selfcontrole, respect and empathy to just keep to the topic or leave the thread, *** **** **** ** **** ***** ****, I'm off now.
Another reason I'm going is that I'll go on a vacation for a few weeks and I'm not gonna spill my time there on this site. (Or really on any other site either)

I'm saying like Kura; I'm getting more and more disappointed at this forum. I thought I had found one that was different were people respected each others views on horses even if they didn't always agree. Because I really don't ask everyone to agree with me, but it wouldn't be too much to ask to keep to the topic and stop harassing me with the same arguments, same accusations and same **** disrespect as before the twentyeleventh time you were asked to keep to the topic. 

If you don't like rearing, don't go in and write in the thread, and definely don't write the same thing over and over again. Or at least go find a thread with the question ''should I teach my horse to rear?'' instead of one with the question ''what cues do you use for rearing?''. Is that really so dificult for you?

Thank you JDI for at least bringing up a new argument instead of all the ones I've already explained my response to.
Thank to those of you who reacted on the inability to stick to the purpose of the thread, even if you don't like rearing yourself.
And thanks to you who just answered my question. 

And thank you mod for giving me my text back. I hope there's not enough bad words left to delete the post now. I'm not gonna be all nice and friendly, afterall I'm a tad bit annoyed.


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## iridehorses

Well .... since this thread has obviously run it's course, it's time to close it.


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