# Strange dip in topline



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think that's called a 'hunter's bump'. The sacro-spine joint (pelvis to spine) looks odd. Has this horse ever been seen by an equine chiropractor?


Age? How does he/she move?


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## Leonidas (Jun 29, 2019)

Thanks for the reply 

He’s 11 yrs old and moves sound (not currently being worked) His foot fall of hind lands into front print at the walk.

I do think he most likely has a hunter’s bump, but never seen the hump that he has ahead of the bump. Unless that’s what a hunters bump looks like with no muscle.

He is just ending his QT, so has only been seen by vet so far, but a chiro visit may definitely be in his future.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Do you have specific plans for the animal already?
This horse is still _significantly _underweight by evidence of that picture.
I would tend to believe the vet who has years of schooling and experience behind them when they say "should improve'....
This horse is so "skinny" it is a very long slow way of coming back from the walking dead.
A skeleton so exposed is not something any of us are often accustomed to seeing. 
Time will tell. 
Is it going to make a difference in whether you keep or send off the horse to another destination?
:runninghorse2:...


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## Leonidas (Jun 29, 2019)

No, he’ll stay here regardless, I was just curious if anyone had seen something similar in a rehab horse.

He has a long way to go still, but you’d be amazed how far he’s come in the few weeks he’s been here.

When he arrived (from feedlot) he was about a 1.5 on H scale and covered in scars and rain rot. His blood work showed infection of some kind, though no fever, so was on antibiotics and a slow intro back to food.

Hoping by end of summer he’ll be ready to start some light work to start building some muscle.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Lack of weight and muscle, poor lumbar conformation, potentially indicative of damage to the SI/lumbar (hunters bumps). Pretty common, really.


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## TeeZee (May 26, 2018)

He seems to have some nasty scars above his croup. I know horses can get hurt in all kinds of ways, but they seem to be in an uncommon location. I would get his health where it needs to be, then have a chiro out. My guess would be he had an injury to his SI.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

While lack of weight may be emphasising it, sounds like your vet doesn't know anything about skeletal conformation or problems. That is NOT just about lack of condition.

I'm curious that a couple of you call this 'hunters bump', as raised lumbar spine is known here as 'roach back', and 'hunters bump' over here means a... knobbly tuber sacrale joint. 

Regardless what you call it, it could be an innate conformational defect, but is commonly due to injury. It MAY be able to be fixed with a good chiropractic vet or such, but I wouldn't hold my breath I'm afraid.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

He has poor conformation. I think it's likely also accentuated by a possible injury. I would have a *veterinary* chiropractor check him out. This might be the perfect time to do something about it. That whole area down to his croup is wonky. He will look better as he gains condition, for sure, but his bone alignment won't change. I would be realistic with whatever your future goals are. If he's sound I wouldn't hesitate to ride him (once he has condition of course) but I'm also not convinced he will stay sound if put into regular/hard work. Or when he's older he may have arthritis issues.

I've also found that horses in those places are almost always there for a reason, this could be his reason. That said as mentioned above these issues are fairly common so could be a "non issue" for him.


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## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

I've seen this in horses who pull back while tied, as they can damage their pelvis and sacrum connections when they sit back, or perhaps this horse has flipped over and broke it's sacrum at some point. Hard to say. 

The hunter's bump is the two bumps that stick up on both sides of the spine/sacrum. Specifically, they are the tuber sacrale as loosie said. It will be a prominent bump (well really 2 bumps) at the highest point of the croup/loin area. I don't see those sticking up as prominently as the roach back I see going on. Typically the hunters bump can be reduced or eliminated in one adjustment where the pelvis and sacrum are worked on to give a more comfortable alignment. Then you can keep it from coming back by doing butt and belly tucks to keep the muscles supporting the healthy alignment strong and active. I know nothing about the roach back though. I worked alongside the chiropractor for years at the hunter sales barn, learning about the different adjustments and learning to adjust horses. 

I would be looking at adding weight, controlled physical therapy type exercises over ground poles, and increasing mobility through chiropractic work. I'm sure the horse will gain more comfort, it's a question of how comfortable you can get it to stay in the long run. 

Good luck!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

My horse has a hunter bump, he was born with it I suppose. I've had him since he was born and I remember seeing it on him when he was a two-year-old. It isn't noticeable as your horse's is, because Indy is in good flesh and has really good top-line muscling. You can condition him, and build his top-line whereas you will barely notice that bump. Indy is 18 now and this is what he looks like with his Hunter bump.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm really interested to hear you say 'hunters bump' can be fixed Filou, as my horse was (I guess) born with one, or else it developed in early life. His mother, who was totally untrained till I got her, also had one. I was told by vets, bodyworkers, even chiropractic vet, that it was 'conformational' & unfixable. Then, when he was probably about 10yo I discovered 'cranio-sacral' therapy - looked to me like 'fluffy nothings' & I only tried to humour a friend... but the fluffy nothings had the biggest effect on both him & my pony who came to me with huge pelvis probs. She also did myofacial. I've seen a massive roach back fixed by my vet chiro tho, who reckons that is often due to kissing spines.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

reminds me of being roached back. maybe a combo of roach backed, underweight making it look worst and a hunters bump/SI injury.


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## UnhappyHacker (Dec 30, 2017)

loosie said:


> While lack of weight may be emphasising it, sounds like your vet doesn't know anything about skeletal conformation or problems. That is NOT just about lack of condition.
> 
> I'm curious that a couple of you call this 'hunters bump', as raised lumbar spine is known here as 'roach back', and 'hunters bump' over here means a... knobbly tuber sacrale joint.
> 
> Regardless what you call it, it could be an innate conformational defect, but is commonly due to injury. It MAY be able to be fixed with a good chiropractic vet or such, but I wouldn't hold my breath I'm afraid.


i thought roach back too, tbh i dont know much about good vs bad conformation- but ive seen quite a few school horses with roach backs and their fine, just have slightly shorter strides in their back legs ive noticed


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

loosie said:


> I'm curious that a couple of you call this 'hunters bump', as raised lumbar spine is known here as 'roach back', and 'hunters bump' over here means a... knobbly tuber sacrale joint.


I agree, this does not appear to be a "hunters bump", but rather a "roached back" of some kind. I'm leaning more towards an old injury compared to a conformational flaw, by comparing it to photos of both hunters bump and roached backs, but that could change as his conditions improves. If he was purchased from a feed lot, I would be wary of whether or not he will remain sound once you begin riding. He could have an old injury that put him out of work, and the feed lot was the easiest option to dispose of an injured horse.

If he were my horse, first step would be having a veterinary chiropractor see him, so someone with eyes for the skeletal structure can determine what is happening under the surface.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I'll give a different opinion, which is that the horse is probably normal and just needs weight. A lot of drawings of the horse skeleton don't show that horses often/usually have a taller spinous process in that area where you see a bump. This is an area that is not as far back as the sacroiliac area where horses get a "hunter's bump." 
I have drawn an arrow in this picture to show it:







.

I discovered this when feeling one of my horses after a suspected injury, and feeling a "bump" in that area. If you feel down horse spines you will notice that many horses have the same bump in that spot. Since you can see your horse's spinous processes all along the back, I'd say this is just more obvious due to no muscling along the topline.


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## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

I like this picture to show. 










When the pelvis is tipped into an upward fixation the bumps show (pretty sure you want it in a more downward fixation but what upward or downward is relative to something, what I'm not sure, or I have it totally backwards). I'm not sure exactly what the name of the adjustment is in technical terms, but you want to realign the pelvis and sacrum. Then it's just maintaining the positioning through correct exercise and follow up work. 

In some disciplines you will want the pelvis rotated upward, in others you don't. Think a race horse pushing out behind, versus a dressage horse coming up under it's self. 

Here's a video showing some different ways to adjust the pelvis. She's pretty good, I've seen her work in person.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm glad I'm not the only one not seeing a hunter's bump. If anything he has a hunter's dip! There is no bump there. He doesn't have one it's the angle of his pelvis accentuated by poor weight. There isn't really much of a bump anywhere and I suspect a lot of this will be unnoticeable once he's at a proper weight (even the best conformartion will look wonky at this point). I DO think he has poor conformation, and I DO think some parts will still be noticeable at a proper weight, but more likely further back towards his tail.


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## Leonidas (Jun 29, 2019)

Thanks for all the reply’s. 
I’m going to talk to the vet when she comes out tomorrow for his teeth/vaccinations (put it off until he finished his antibiotics and was in better shape)
I don’t think their office has a chiropractor, but pretty sure another office a little further away does.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Let us know!


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