# Best way to get your horse to do a flying lead change?



## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Does she change at all? Cross canter? (Easiest way to always have the correct lead is to change OVER the fence....ie do a figure 8 over caveletti, ask as you take off, land go in the direction of the lead.)


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## LoveMyDrummerBoy (Nov 5, 2009)

Balance. 

And a trainer.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Do you 'ask' her to take off on the right lead or do you rely on her to find her own way?
If you have the space then try changing direction with some trot strides in between first and once she's really confident about it then go back to the flying lead change
Your horse needs to be really balanced and collected - riding between your leg, seat and a light hand on a steady rhythm to be able to do this properly. A lot of horses I see that struggle with this lack impulsion and fitness.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the hunter ring you do NOT want your horse to change over the fence and land on the correct lead. So I would start with lots of flat work. A nice, balanced canter. Practice cantering circles and figure 8s with simple changes and eventually press up to flying changes. I would work with poles or cavalettis first on the diagonal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RunningJumpingHorses (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks everyone! And to those who asked, yes she can pick up the correct leads if we do a simple change but I know in some levels the judges frown upon it. That's the reason I was wondering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ray MacDonald (Dec 27, 2009)

How I teach flying lead changes:

Get the horse perfect at doing simple lead changes...
Get down to only 2 strides of trot between leads...
Put a trot pole right in the middle of E and B (so the ends of the poles are pointing to A and C)

Keep doing simple changes over the pole (have the trot strides over the pole)
Now try to do a flying lead change just as she is going over the pole...
Once she can do I good flying lead change over the pole, try removing the pole but still doing the same pattern (a large figure 8 using the whole arena) and see if she can get it without the pole.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

alexischristina said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the hunter ring you do NOT want your horse to change over the fence and land on the correct lead. So I would start with lots of flat work. A nice, balanced canter. Practice cantering circles and figure 8s with simple changes and eventually press up to flying changes. I would work with poles or cavalettis first on the diagonal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Landing on the correct lead in the hunter ring is perfectly appropriate. That is exactly what I'd do if I had a horse that had a sticky or no lead change. A late lead change can be considered a major or minor fault; it is up to the judge. A missed change is considered a major fault, as is trotting on course (so a simple lead change would be in this category).


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Landing on the correct lead shows you are preparing in advance for the new direction, most certainly you will not be marked down for it. If you can do a figure 8 WITH a fence the horse will understand more clearly as well.

So, how to introduce changes: if the horse is on the forehand they will likey not change united (usually late behind). So getting the horse active and positioning in the working canter is necessary (balanced). Use half halts to prepare the change, change flexion/change direction, asked. But a trainer can help you by a. riding the horse to prepare it, and the b telling you what the timing is.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

can your horse counter canter on a 20m circle ?


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## Horsequeen08 (Jun 24, 2007)

Subbing...I've been trying to teach my mare this. We also do hunters. (Tho she does alot of flying changes all on her own when I free lunge her...  hahaha. Just gotta get her to do it under saddle!)


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## RunningJumpingHorses (Mar 1, 2013)

gypsygirl said:


> can your horse counter canter on a 20m circle ?


Honestly I've never tried!! Haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i would get her counter canter strong before asking for changes !

when my mare has days where im just not getting the good change i want, i go back to counter canter and get her really on and listening to my aids. when i ask for another change it is spot on =]


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## Horsequeen08 (Jun 24, 2007)

I'm not sure I understand the logic of the counter canter. Please understand I'm not disputing the idea of it working, I'm just not understanding the logic. I've worked for -months- to get my horse to pick up the correct lead going both directions. She is finally pretty good. On one or two occasions she will get the wrong one and I'll ask her to trot and fix it (Simple change) and she does. I am afraid that if I ask her to counter canter, even in a circle, she might think "going back" to working on the wrong lead will be ok. That is something I def don't want to teach her as, like I said, it took aLOT of work to get her to where she is now. 

Thoughts? I see how asking her to do it wrong then switching it can teach a flying change, but like I said, I'm pretty worried that it'll 'let her get away with it'.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

well your horse should pick up the lead that you ask for ! counter canter is a great exercise for obedience and balance. if they cant balance enough to do counter canter then they cant balance enough to do a flying lead change.


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## Horsequeen08 (Jun 24, 2007)

Oh I know that, I'm not really worried about her NOT being able to do it, I'm more just worried about intentionally asking for the wrong lead may lead to teaching her she can just pick a lead. That's my fear with using counter canter to teach lead changes and I just wanted to know options/opinions.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i have found that when you are first teaching counter canter they may offer it when you ask for the canter. the thing to do is shut them down immediately. they are trying to do something right, but they are not listening to you properly. so if i ask for the left lead and get a counter canter instead, i immediately walk, and then ask for the canter again.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

Changing through trot is not a simple change, a simple change is through walk.

Counter canter is so that the horse understands to canter on whatevr lead asked. THE best way for a educated (in lateral work) rider is to ride a circle in renvers in counter canter (you have to wrap your mind around that first). And then change from counter canter renvers (figure 8) to counter canter renvers. It makes for absolutely united changes as well as straighter ones. But that predisposes a high level of timing/balance.

It should NOT take months to learn a lead, and if they do not clearly understand leads well enough to do true canter and cc, they they should not be asked to do flying changes (like they will be late/off balance).

There is NO wrong lead per, there is merely taking the one the rider asked for. First cc straight ahead, half halt, walk, true canter.


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## Horsequeen08 (Jun 24, 2007)

Wow thanks alot for basically telling me I'm stupid. I know what a counter canter is, thank you. I'm asking for reasons why it would/wouldn't teach her to do it wrong. Instead of telling me off like I'm stupid, you could have just explained it without all the "this is why you are wrong" attitude. Second, going from a trot to a canter to a trot to fix a lead IS a simple change. It is down-grading the gait to fix the lead. Also, yes, it WOULD take months to learn a lead when you are working with a horse that has not built alot of muscle tone, isn't used to consistent riding after being left in a pasture for years, and doesn't have perfect balance. 

If it sounds like I'm annoyed/snapping, it is because I am. I'm tired of people assuming they know me and my horse and my riding on here. I get that alot, and I SEE that alot on threads that are not mine. I'm asking for help so that I can better teach my horse and by doing that I'm trying to educate myself. Normally I'm fairly calm on here and try to see other points of view. So please, don't give me an attitude for trying to learn more and find out just how that wouldn't teach her wrong. 

Thank you.


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## Horsequeen08 (Jun 24, 2007)

Gypsey-that makes sense. Thank you for just explaining it in a way I understand. I will try it, I just am afraid to back track after all the work we have done together.


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## RunningJumpingHorses (Mar 1, 2013)

Wow. Lots has gone on since I've been in here. Ok. So here's a very simple question but I've never really asked for a lead. How do you ask for a lead like ask with the inside leg or outside?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

RunningJumpingHorses said:


> Wow. Lots has gone on since I've been in here. Ok. So here's a very simple question but I've never really asked for a lead. How do you ask for a lead like ask with the inside leg or outside?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you want the left lead, you would use your right leg to ask for the lead. If you want the right, you use your left. Its the "outside" leg to the lead you are asking for. To get the flying change you need a huge half halt to set the horse back, use the outside leg to ask for the change.

What I do when I am teaching a horse is start with simple changes(trot) and ask for the lead right away. Over time the trot strides should get less and less and eventually you should have a smooth change without breaking the canter. Using poles and small cross rails on serpentines and figure 8's can help as you ask for the change as you go over the pole/jump. 

When you are jumping you want to ask as you approach the jump so your new outside leg should be back and slightly changing the bend.


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## Horsequeen08 (Jun 24, 2007)

NB: When asking for a flying change over a pole, should the pole be on the straight or on a diagonal angle?


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Horsequeen08 said:


> NB: When asking for a flying change over a pole, should the pole be on the straight or on a diagonal angle?


Either way really. The biggest thing is straightness. You want your horse straight before you can ask for the change. So you set the horse up going in a straight line, slightly change your bend, a half halt and ask for the new lead.


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## RunningJumpingHorses (Mar 1, 2013)

NBEventer said:


> If you want the left lead, you would use your right leg to ask for the lead. If you want the right, you use your left. Its the "outside" leg to the lead you are asking for. To get the flying change you need a huge half halt to set the horse back, use the outside leg to ask for the change.
> 
> What I do when I am teaching a horse is start with simple changes(trot) and ask for the lead right away. Over time the trot strides should get less and less and eventually you should have a smooth change without breaking the canter. Using poles and small cross rails on serpentines and figure 8's can help as you ask for the change as you go over the pole/jump.
> 
> When you are jumping you want to ask as you approach the jump so your new outside leg should be back and slightly changing the bend.


Sweet!! Two questions answered!! Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I can not stress enough though to _*never*_ rush the change. When you are doing the simple changes and trying to shorten the trot strides never rush the trot. Make sure your horse is back in a rhythmic even balanced trot then ask for the canter. If you are doing this correctly you should get it in no time. But if you start rushing the trot to get the canter right away its going to fall apart and you are going to end up with a horse that gets frazzled in the change.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Lots of good good advice here!

Another aspect of the flying lead change (being a Reiner, I tend to work of counter canter into changes....as I learnt a little differently and was told not to do a simple change....but that is a whole different thread!) 

The other side to this coin, is it is more work for a horse to cc, so working of a serpentine while cc can really give a horse extra motivation to change leads! 

It's all about incentive! And yes, a lead change and which lead and the whole when and how is YOUR decision.....not the horses


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

equitate said:


> Changing through trot is not a simple change, a simple change is through walk.


I am going to disagree with you. A simple change is through the trot or walk.

Even the USEF in rule EQ114 defines a simple lead change as “whereby the horse is brought back into a walk or trot (either is accept­able unless the judge specifies) and restarted into a canter on the opposite lead.”


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

How to ask for a canter depart? Inside leg is closer to the girth, outside leg PULSES behind the girth (be careful not to turn toe out). Sit up, do not lean forward. The horse can only depart on an aid when it is timed; if it is held the horse can end up crooked/haunches in.

A simple change_ traditionally_ is through walk.

Ideally when going over a pole/caveletti, do a figure 8 and jump straight, landing and turning. So as the horse takes off, new outside is already back and new inside is come forward lightly. (It is better over a caveletti or small jump.)

Also you can do canter on a figure 8, start with canter and walk say 5 strides, canter, walk 4 strides and the center, canter, walk 3 strides, until there is no walk, and you just ask for the change. That said the walk MUST be active and relaxed before asking for the second part of the circle. IF it is not, then walk (allowing bascule) until it is so.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i teach counter canter differently from a lot of the dressage queens at my barn, but it has always worked well for me. here is what i do.

go down a quarter line or just off the rail, ask for the counter canter. if you arent getting it you can leg yield into it a step or two. once they understand what you are asking, ask for canter for a couple strides then walk. ask for counter canter a couple strides then walk. repeat until they are obediently picking up which ever lead you say. do not canter around the short sides often, and when you do make sure it is in canter !

once the get good at picking up the counter canter i start asking them to maintain it longer and around the short side. they make struggle at first, but it is important not to let them break to trot or swap. if i feel like they are going to i will ask for walk so it is my idea. when they are able to maintain the counter canter through the short side i canter down the diagonal and let them canter for awhile. 

i hope this helps. many people start with canter and change directions, but i start with counter canter and change directions. once they are good in counter canter i will do a 10m half circle from canter and change to counter canter.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Are you actively asking your horse to switch leads or just hoping the change of direction gets the job done? Does you horse know you want her to switch? I would go at this from a standpoint of clearing out all the noise in your aids and first developing very clear signals for the lead you want. I would work on a very large figure 8. Canter one circle, and do a simple change, ie come down to walk, and then back up to canter. The only changes you make are new outside leg behind girth, new inside leg asking for proper bend and depart and making sure you are not blocking the new inside shoulder upon depart. The first few times, take as many walk steps as you need to get the new canter depart. Walk right onto the next circle if you need to. The point is to get your horse to know what you are asking for. If you try to rush it to get it perfect, it will just backfire and create more noise. Be patient and only ask for the new canter when you know you can succeed. 

Once you have the figure 8 down to where you're only taking 1 or 2 walk steps between departs, change it to a "hunter" figure 8. Picture to diagonal jumping lines. Canter down the first diagonal. As you approach the corner where you will ask for the new lead, do the simple change. Walk for a step and come back up in the correct new lead. Come down the next diagonal and repeat. 

Once your horse is sighing with boredom because she understands the game, go down your next diagonal and cue for the change with your new inside leg in rhythm with each stride. If you did all the other work correctly, your horse will feel the new inside leg, know that means depart and off you go. You might have to exaggerate the leg cue at first, but if you have a quick learner, you can get more subtle very quickly. 

Hope this helps.


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