# Sticky  "Playing the Hero" -- when to 'stick with it' & when to realize it's time to move on.



## wild_spot

Amen, sister. Won't write a while lot because I'm on my phone, but I agree wholeheartedly. I hate seeing people overhorsed - we were recently able to convince the parents of a begginer rider at our club that his horse was way too much for him - and thank god because that was a case were he would have definately gotten hurt. I also think the biggest factor is ego, as you mentioned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt

WS, I was hoping you'd see this thread and reply -- I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say when you're on a real computer


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## alexischristina

I'm afraid we were in a situation like that a few years ago, where I knew deep down the horse was way too much for me, so I slowly started to let go- after the inevitable injury happened. It wasn't big, she bit me -hard-, hard enough to leave a bruise that didn't fade away for over six months, and make it difficult to ride. Not to mention the fact that she nearly (thank god for that NEARLY) kicked me in the head, totally un provoked. It wounded my pride, wounded my confidence, but I'm so glad now that we realised it in time, before she hurt me or anybody else who decided to go near her, it just wasn't worth it.

Turns out, in the end, it was a pain issue (that previous owners didn't tell us about, but that's beside the story) and we gave her away to people who could RECOGNIZE and TREAT the issue. I've yet to meet her again, but I want to, because get this- she's doing beginner trail rides and has gone back to her previous 'bombproof' status, so not only was it safer for us it was so much better for her and now she's living the life she deserves with people who know how to handle her issues.


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## iridehorses

There is a very old saying: _"Pride goes before the fall"_. Taken literally and in this context, it means get out of that horse before you get hurt.

I've bought and sold many horses in my life and some should have been keepers but I wasn't ready for them at the time. I love horses and I have my entire life but I have no problem admitting that, for whatever reason, I bought the wrong horse. Horses are for my enjoyment and if that particular horse is not giving that to me, then out he goes. 

This is really aimed at the younger members but I find it ridiculous that some will whine about owning a horse that is trying to kill them yet can't part with him because he is their life or their best friend or their soulmate. It's horse and if you are over your head with that horse, it is better off (for both you and the horse) to be in the hands of someone who is at the same level with him. You are not going to make it better but only make it worse if you keep a horse that is too far above your expertise. 

If you own a horse that is still bolting, rearing, biting, bucking, after a year ... you don't need that horse. I'm also tired of hearing "he's come a long way" but he is still bolting etc. The longer you keep a horse like that the longer it takes to break the habit you fostered. Misguided youthful ego.

OK, rant over .... back to the thread.


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## ridesapaintedpony

Thank you for this. I'm facing the reality of this, slowly but surely.


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## Marecare

One of the best posts I have even seen!

This should be copied and posted to every horse forum on the Internet and be mandatory reading before owning a horse.

VERY good job writing this piece JustDressageIt.


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## JustDressageIt

iridehorses said:


> This is really aimed at the younger members but I find it ridiculous that some will whine about owning a horse that is trying to kill them yet can't part with him because he is their life or their best friend or their soulmate. It's horse and if you are over your head with that horse, it is better off (for both you and the horse) to be in the hands of someone who is at the same level with him. You are not going to make it better but only make it worse if you keep a horse that is too far above your expertise.
> 
> If you own a horse that is still bolting, rearing, biting, bucking, after a year ... you don't need that horse. I'm also tired of hearing "he's come a long way" but he is still bolting etc. The longer you keep a horse like that the longer it takes to break the habit you fostered. Misguided youthful ego.


I didn't want to make my main post about this, but yes, I had this in mind when writing the piece. Thank you for bringing it up, Iride. 

"Playing the hero" and 'sticking with it' longer than one should usually goes hand-in-hand with the invincibility of youth. Even by the time we're in our 20's, our bodies stop bouncing like they should, injuries seem to hurt more, or we've got families, and significant others that make us realize that life is much, much bigger than one horse. Suddenly, dealing with a bronc doesn't seem like such a good time, or _worth_ injury or death. 
I'm not saying adults aren't sometimes the ones that hang on longer than they should, I've seen it happen, but it's generally the younger ones that feel that "I can't sell him! S/He's my soulmate! S/He's my everything!"


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## JustDressageIt

Marecare said:


> One of the best posts I have even seen!
> 
> This should be copied and posted to every horse forum on the Internet and be mandatory reading before owning a horse.
> 
> VERY good job writing this piece JustDressageIt.


Coming from yourself, Marecare, this is quite the compliment. Thank you. I always enjoy reading your 'articles' (as they're usually much more than simple posts) and actually had you in mind (as far as writing goes, you're definitely not in my target audience!) when I was writing this.


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## MaggiStar

Intersetingly i come from the other perspective i obtained a "problem" horse 3 years ago.A girl in my yard with 3years experience on "bomb-proof" riding school ponies decided between herself and parents she was ready to own a horse. The horse they bought was a beautiful 16.2hh 5year old anglo-arab mare who are difficult to handle at the best of times this mare however was incredibly mareish so come season time she was a handful. They kept the mare for 3 years after this length of time Magi no longer jumped despite clearing 4" courses on arrival due to being held back coming into jumps then getting flung at them and chucked on landing the result was that this mare ran backwards,reared stopped dead and wouldnt move or if forced over the jump she wouldnt lift her legs she ran through it. Through inexperience she destroyrd the horse who no longer did anything she bolted in canter stopped dead in trot couldnt go on the road or fields due to rearing bucking napping you name it she did it. The reason she finally decided to sell her "bestfrien in the world"..... Maggie reared up fell over backwards the girl ended up with a broken pelvis and severe concussion. I had always gotten along with the mare so for a couple of hundred i bought her and my god it was a journey to try go through her problems one by one she was schooled and lunged solidly for a year not a jump or hack in site i took her out of a stable the first year and she lived in a field this burnt off all boredom habits and energy the second sumer i had her i introduced light jumping three years on and my girl is a champion eventer and dressage horse. it just goes to show people who are clinging on to these horses that have the potential to kill you that your not only destroying your own confidence but your horses in the long run its better and safer to even lease the horse out for a year whilst experience is gained. jus thought id share that getting a problem horse is ALOT of work and dedication on the new owner to try and achieve a rideable horse. everyone has been in a situation of being over horsed the safest option is to get out as quickly as possible as once the horse realises he can get one up on you its a very very very slippery slope from then on!


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## JustDressageIt

> I'm not talking needs a bit of training/settling... I'm talking that horse that makes us look like fools... the horse that has problems, the horse that bucks/bolts/spins/rears/kicks.. you name it... and it's beyond our knowledge level.


I would just like to re-iterate this piece, if I may: The horse that's over your head doesn't have to do all this stuff.... I simply mean that if the horse does stuff that you're uncomfortable with, whether that's bolting, taking the bit, or rearing or bucking, and you don't know how to deal with it _effectively and within a timely manner_, realize that you're in over your head.


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## livelifelove

This post is awesome. I was one of those people who bought two horses that were over my previous level of horsemanship. Once I realized this, I took the actions necessary for me to keep my animals. I hired a trainer who taught me the basics of how to handle a horse on the ground, and from there I worked on it every day to get to where I am now. I used to babysit for my last trainer to get discounted/free lessons whenever possible. I worked at a feed store for 2 years and learned everything about feeding and caring for horses because they are my passion and I wanted to learn as much about them as possible. I went to the trade shows and the horse expos and the clinics with top dressage riders just to watch how people not only handled and rode, but how they connected with and took care of their horses. I'm happy to say I've always had horse sense, and I love deepening and broadening my knowledge. I am still not world's greatest rider because I don't have the money to take lessons. I get most of my experience through working deals. I often take on challenges that are over my head and learn and work to overcome them. But that's the difference! You have to be willing to work hard and learn, not just continue to do nothing and destroy both your and your horses life. 

All I can add is that if you really need help, there are ways to find it. Offer up a room in your house in exchange for daily training from a horse savvy college student or trainer. Attend clinics and watch DVDs or watch training sessions other people are giving. Get involved with a local barn and clean stalls in exchange for lessons, and meet people in your area willing to mentor you. There are many opportunities, and if this is something you really WANT you CAN find a solution without paying a lot of money.


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## Wallaby

Thanks for writing this JDI! 

Looking back on Lacey and I, when I first got her, I'm still amazed that I'm not dead. Hahaha I guess I got lucky that I joined this forum when I got her and was able to learn by trial and error with her because otherwise...I don't even know. 

I also second what iride said. Especially about how if your horse is still having major issues after you've been working with it for a year, you have a problem. I do know, however, that it took Lacey and I about a year to iron all the major kinks out of our relationship that were causing her difficulty, but pretty exactly on the one year mark we had gotten it all figured out. We still had little kinks to work out then but now, about 20 months into our relationship, we're pretty much golden. 
I feel like, if you have a "problem" horse and you aren't making huge strides in your understanding of what's going on and then noticeable strides in the direction of fixing it, from about the second month (because I feel like you don't truly see a horses true colors for about a month, also you need to know the horse enough to know what's going on), you need to either sell the horse or get help, real honest to goodness professional help, not your next door neighbor who's trained a horse once or twice.

Really, the only reason I stuck with Lacey was because if I gave up on her, the auction and slaughter were her next stop (according to my BO/trainer who was her real full owner at the time). I just couln't have that on my conscience, so I stuck with Lacey way past anything my trainer/myself felt comfortable with. I mean, Lacey scared me so badly that I did not ride her for 4 stinking months! I mean, I was doing tons of groundwork in that time which I'm sure helped me once I did get back in the saddle, but still. 4 months should have been the giant blinking light that said to me "this is too much for you!!".

But in any case, I feel very fortunate that Lacey is good natured enough to not have killed me and that I was experienced enough as a horseperson to know how to pick and choose my battles. Very fortunate indeed.
And as a plea to anyone who might read this and think "Some girl on the interwebs did it! I can do it too!" Please don't. It was not good for my mental health and I really wish I had just gone with something that was my actual skill level. Also, before I met Lacey, I had/have spent many many hours retraining horses that were problems on a smaller scale than Lacey was. The only reason I didn't die with Lacey was that I had already learned how to sit quietly, how to calm my insides when they are FREAKING OUT, how to feel when a horse is about to o something and how to stop them before they do, I had already learned the lesson of "velcro-butt," and even then, I was on this forum asking for help ALL the time. Otherwise, I probably would have died, just sayin.


Thank you, again, so much for writing this JDI! It's something everyone should read and really consider.


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## FGRanch

Great read. 

I know I've leared so much from the first couple of horses I ever touched, and I nearly did ruin my first horse. Thankfully someone with ALOT more know how took him on and was able to deal with the issues that I had created. 

I consider myself an intermediate/experienced horse person but I am still not afraid to ever send my horse to a trainer or work with a coach if I am stuck on something, nor am I afraid to sell that horse if I know it's just not going to work out. But I wasn't always like this. I held onto that first horse that I nearly ruined for a good long time...I wasn't willing to give up (both a good trait and a bad trait)


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## spence

thanks for the post, it means a lot for me even. it's almost funny, here i am, newlywed and mid 20's, and i'm fussing with an OTTB that very well may be over my head. i'm risking my neck because i'd much rather it be me than my wife as it's her horse.

i didn't do anything with him for over six months because i just plain didn't know WHAT to do with him. i'd spent over a year before that on a learning curve getting education on how to do and work with horses. but he was still just that much over me. i'd gotten on him a few times, but didn't really get anywhere with him. however, my brother did grow up with them and he came out a couple times and worked on him. gave me some ideas and pointers, really boosted my confidence on the whole deal.

so the wife and i had come up with a different plan that if we hadn't gotten him behaved and ridable by the end of summer it was time for him to go. but then another idea was given to me. given 60 days of DAILY riding, we'd have one of two things. either we'd have a usable horse who's half decent, or my wife would say that it's time to get rid of him.

so far, about a week into this thing, i'm not going to throw any suggestions out there as to what's going to happen yet. he's not horrid in terms of behavior. he's well mannered on the ground until i go to get on him, but once on, i have control. he's got some pretty bad manners sometimes, but is making progress well. next weekend it may be time to start incorporating my spouse into his training program. plus she IS involved because she does good ground work, thus is going to be the one to learn him to stand while being mounted.

i just hope and pray that if it does come to that time that she it and won't fight me. i haven't felt in REAL danger yet, however there's been a couple of times that i wondered if he was going to try and rear or buck. however, he still hasn't and it was pointed out that often times the feeling comes from him tripping over himself.

anyhow, thanks again for the post, and i hope that someone out there will take it to heart and save themselves some time, trouble, and possibly pain/injury.


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## kitten_Val

I'm NOT arguing here, but just wondering. If you get say wild horse (btw, I don't see anything romantic about getting wild horse, but only problems unless you have tons of experience to deal with one) or horse with problems (for example, seller lied or you took one out of pity (YES, it's NOT the way to go, but things happen)), and horse is too much for you AND noone is interested even in taking it for free. Now what should you do? Put it down? Sell it to the meat plant?


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## MacabreMikolaj

^

In my opinion, if a horse is SO dangerous that you can't even give it away, you're probably better off loading it on a one-way truck so nobody else gets hurt anyway. I suppose the kind thing to do in some eyes would be to put them down, but if I was somehow tricked into paying money for such an animal (tranq'ed at selling for example), I would ship it and recoup some of my losses. I couldn't personally ship a doting pet, but a rank bronc who had no interest in learning manners doesn't matter which trailer he's in, he's still on the fight, so let him fight it out with the packers.

Excellent post JDI. People seem to really hang on to this old cowboy idea of rough riding a horse into the ground and never giving up. They don't realize that plenty of stock got a bullet to the brain after it had crunched the third or fourth cowboy. These horses were a livelihood back in the day, and having to admit defeat usually meant a wincing hit to the pocketbook, so they were determined to try as hard as they could to make a worker out of a mean range cuss. There is also a HUGE difference between the one in a thousand wild bronc who would fight to the death, and a spoiled miserable rotten domestic horse that someone has ruined. 

There was a time when I'd climb on anything. Now, I look long and hard at what someone is asking me to climb onto. There are just certain vices and certain states of mind in horses that nobody should ever have to deal with because the chance of bringing them around is slim to none.

And agreed with whoever mentioned the insanity behind teenage kids professing undying love to a horse that tries to maim them daily. You need to learn **** fast that your horse doesn't know what "love" is and nickering for you at the fence does not mean he's going to think twice about piling you into a wall and going after you with his teeth if he doesn't feel like being ridden. Get rid of him and get something worth your time and effort - quit foolin' yourself into thinking a horse that delibrately tries to hurt humans is worth saving.


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## SeWHC

EXCELLENT post!


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## justsambam08

Excellent post. A few weeks ago I brought up this topic on one of my list serv/email forums for myself.


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## NittanyEquestrian

I would like to add a personal story...I appologize for the length but I think it really is an eye opener for some of you. 

When I was 11 my trainer rescued an abused, neglected underweight 2 yr old colt. His name was Raymond. I was horseless at that time and spent hours that summer reading in his pasture, feeding him treats and desensitizing him to the "simple things in life" like brushes, carrots, people...etc. I was the first to brush him, the first to halter him, the first to lead him,you get the picture. I was also officially the first person on his back when it came time to back him and he was gelded (i.e pony ride with the trainer at his head). I was light, had a "velcro butt" and I volunteered...haha! 

He got 60 or 90 days from my trainer to be a western pleasure/team penner and didn't hack it. He had too much go and not enough jog...plus he ran away from half the cows he met. But for a greenie he was sane, I was riding him in lessons and occasionally on trail rides after she had put the beginning miles on him. Needless to say he wasn't gonna be her next all around versatility ranch horse. So the decision was made to sell him. He was inexperienced but game and I was looking for an english mount. 

A brief history of my experience at that point. I got my first pony at 4 and was on the back of a horse at least once a week after that, baring death or weather related setbacks. I was experienced with adversity, I never had a push button horse to learn on. I learned to ride with a stubborn shetland, a kids crop and how to utilize kicking, smacking and hanging onto the horn at the same time and the most we ever achieved was a plodding lope up a small hill for about 3 strides. Steering was always optional in my younger years naturally. Insert local yokel trainer and I learned about figure eights, heels down, head up and direct opening rein. I think I learned to post about this time too...I was 8. After three years with this trainer, insert the story of Raymond from above, naive parents, a grandmother with some extra cash and a trainer that swears we can learn together....(Any red flags going up yet?)

With the help of my esteemed instructor, it took me 2 years to ruin him. He was sour, he was malicious, he had learned how to unstick my velcro. With creative movements that mirrored such exalted moves as the canter pirrouette, the capriole and a few that he made up. Such as the duck and scoot, the drop the shoulder and change leads real quick, the buck coming off a fence trick was always a personal favorite of mine as well and the drop your head to your knees and hop sideways maneuver was a personal favorite of his. 

I loved this horse, he was my baby...(insert 13 yr old girl whining here). The parents finally caught onto the fact that the 13 yr old telling her parents that her trainer sucks might be a valid argument and we leave. Enter...non-show barn with trails and a crappy ring. I hauled out for hunter/jumper lessons to a local stable and spent a lot of time lunging, trail riding and hanging out with him. I also started riding with an older friend and she started helping me to undo the problems my inexperience and bad instruction had created. 

Fast forward through lots of money, tons of clinic and lesson hours, numerous instructors and knowledgeable friends and you're where I am today. I have a wonderful gelding, who is highly trained and a total in your pocket personality. He still tests every single person that gets on him, he is still a bit stiff and heavy in his laterals and on his forehand. He still throws tantrums when he's asked to work and do higher level movements. These days his tantrums are over whether he really wants to school 2nd and 3rd level dressage movements, or behave on a trail ride by himself or calmly accept the ground hogs, tarps, mini donkey and deer that frequently careen past our ring instead of ducking and scooting or crow hopping away. 

For 5 years I said almost every week that I came home from the barn in tears that I was going to sell him. The ONLY thing that stopped me was my parents saying, if you sell him you won't be getting another horse from us. In a lot of ways they did me a favor, it made me the trainer I am now, the rider I am now and it made me appreciate how easy it is to ruin a horse and how hard to fix. 

But my childhood and my teenage years could have been full of winning championships for my skills, or going on relaxing rides through the woods instead of the blood, sweat and tears I put into this gelding just to be able to go to a show for the day and not fall off. To not be disqualified for blowing simple leads or having him try to run over the judge or away with me. To be able to hack out alone without an hour long battle and impressive airs above ground. 

And no matter what training I have put on him since, he still has mental scars from my misuse as a child. He still reverts back to his 4 year old self. He still does the same maneuvers, the same tricks and throws the same tantrums when he is having a bad day. That is part of his training too and it will never go away. I used to joke that I have to keep him because nobody else will put up with his crap, which isn't quite true anymore. I have finally re-taught him to be a productive member of equine society. It just took us 10 years to get there. He was born in 1996 and I bought him in 1998. I was 11, I'm now 23.

P.S-Feel free to cross post this or use it if you would like.


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## ShezaCharmer

*Excellent article!*

Great Article!

Everyone who owns a horse should read this. Maybe it will make a few people ask themselves if their horse is actually right for them. 

My trainer has worked with many of these horses that inexperienced people have ruined. Currently I am helping her re-train a 13 year old horse that doesn't respond to leg pressure and rein aids because of a teen that wasn't experienced enough to ride her and just totally ruined her. 

These children that get horses that are way to green or problematic are not the only people at fault for ruining their horse. It is also the child's parents that need to be blamed. Just because the child had lessons on push-button ponies for a year or two, doesn't mean they are ready to break in a young horse or ride a top-notch dressage horse.


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## wild_spot

Okay, back at a computer again :]

Often, if a person is way-over horsed, people telling them that can make the situation worse. We all know how people like to prove others wrong! They get into the ‘I’ll show them’ mentality – Which as said, is when people start getting hurt.

I think a big point to make is that you should be training for the horse. Anytime you are training for a different motivation is when things go pear shaped. Training to prove something to others, or to yourself, is one of the worst.

I think that being over horsed is one of the biggest reasons people lose interest in riding. I have a friend who never had that pony to learn and have fun on. She had a cranky, pushy, dominant horse, and then a highly strung, injury prone TB. She slowly stopped riding when he was always injured, and when he passed away, she never really took it up again. I used to bring her out and put her on Wildey, and she had such fun just hooning around! It was something she had never experienced – Just having fun on a horse you don’t have to worry about. So many young people out there are so focussed on competeing, or training, or improving, or ‘being’ someone, that they lose the pure and simple joy of just riding and enjoying the country with your horse. I feel that every kid should have at least one well-broke pony who they just take out on trails. 

Ego is such a big player in the problem. It’s a rare person who can admit that they aren’t good enough, without feeling de-valued even in the smallest way. It feels like failure. And none of us like failure. It’s a mentality that needs to be changed. All those books and movies (Black Beauty, Black Stallion, My Friend Flicka, Thunderhead, etc.) have a lot to answer for! We need to teach our kids the value in realizing you are over horsed and admitting it. We need to teach the parents, too – How many times have I seen a kid who just wants a pony to love, perched on a huge, spirited horse that is terrifying them while their parents scream instructions from the sidelines? There is nothing noble in struggling with a horse that is too much for you.

I think a part that most overlook is that it is doing the horse NO GOOD. If you are scared, confused, or worried, then the horse knows it. It’s like Riosdad days – He rides the horses he does and does things the way he does because he knows that he can control the horse in any situation that may arise. It really is the key. *If you don’t have the tools, knowledge and confidence to control and manage any situation that may come up with a particular horse, or a quick and easy avenue to get it, then you have NO business riding that horse.*

I am one of those people who hates to see a good horse go to waste. I know that said horse is probably perfectly happy in their life of laziness, but I just start to fume when I see a horse with such potential being wasted because the owner is to scared or doesn’t have the knowledge to bring it out, but they are too stubborn to let it go. There are two horses like this at the local agistment centre – A gorgeous, beautifully conformed 16h palomino ASH gelding and an adorable, lightning quick paint welsh mountain pony mare. The gelding does nothing because the owner doesn’t like him and he is apparently a ‘terror’ – I have ridden him and he didn’t put a foot wrong except for being lazy! The mare is too much for her owner (A typical quick, smart pony mare, the type I love!) and is sitting in the paddock almost foundering every year. Every time I see them I just pine for them – I have said to both owners that I would love to take them but they are too stubborn.

I feel more pity for the horse in these situations, than the owner. The horse has no say in who buys it and who attempts to train it – The people do.


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## Mercedes

I'm going to play devil's advocate here a bit...not that I disagree with the OP.

As the superior species *cough gag*, it behooves us to actually do the research before delving into horse ownership (among other things), get a mentor, talk to more experienced people (like more than just your neighbor who never actually rides his horse) et al...

If people did that BEFORE buying, the chances of getting in over their head goes down exponentially.

Behavior issues in horses are almost always human created, and the behavior in and of itself is the horse's only way to say, "HEY! I'm in pain here. HEY! I don't have a clue what you want from me. HEY! Quit giving me mixed signals. HEY! Why are you reprimanding me for behaving like a horse?" HEY! Why are you getting on me and making me work for 4 hours when you haven't been on me in 6 months? HEY! Don't you get that what you're feeding me is crap and upsetting my stomach?" And the like...

As often as people are bamboozled and taken for a ride by dishonest sellers, there are as many people who simply don't make the commitment that is required for horse ownership, and there is in fact absolutely nothing wrong with that horse that just bit them.


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## justsambam08

Mercedes said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate here a bit...not that I disagree with the OP.
> 
> As the superior species *cough gag*, it behooves us to actually do the research before delving into horse ownership (among other things), get a mentor, talk to more experienced people (like more than just your neighbor who never actually rides his horse) et al...
> 
> If people did that BEFORE buying, the chances of getting in over their head goes down exponentially.
> 
> Behavior issues in horses are almost always human created, and the behavior in and of itself is the horse's only way to say, "HEY! I'm in pain here. HEY! I don't have a clue what you want from me. HEY! Quit giving me mixed signals. HEY! Why are you reprimanding me for behaving like a horse?" HEY! Why are you getting on me and making me work for 4 hours when you haven't been on me in 6 months? HEY! Don't you get that what you're feeding me is crap and upsetting my stomach?" And the like...
> 
> As often as people are bamboozled and taken for a ride by dishonest sellers, there are as many people who simply don't make the commitment that is required for horse ownership, and there is in fact absolutely nothing wrong with that horse that just bit them.


Excellent point. I don't think there's anything wrong with rising to the occasion of owning a certain horse, and definitely nothing wrong with educationg yourself. However, I think the OP was, as stated somewhere else in this topic, referring especially to the "tweenies" who barely know how to sit on a horse, and then going out and buy something that it would take them years to learn how to successfully ride, and only 6 months or so to ruin.


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## JustDressageIt

Thank you for your input, WS. 

Mercedes, you bring up a valid point, and one that's very oft ignored. The point of my OP, though, was for those people that are already in the situation -- I could write another huge long article about what not to do about getting into the situation in the first place, but thank you for bringing it up  

Justsam - I'm really gearing this thread to anyone in over their heads, I hate to aim it at only one age group.


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## FGRanch

It's more than just teenages that are in over their head. I know of alot of adults that are also in way over their head!!


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## thunderhooves

What a novel! I only read the first part, but wow. That is a great post! And I am one of those people who have/had a choice like that. I chose to get the pride out of the window and chose my safety. We never had a "bond" anyway. BTW- rearing is a scary thing, and going over backward it something I won't soon forget. I hope Chingaz posts here/reads this.
EDIT
it's not that I'm in over my head THAT far. With the trainer working with us, I could ride him fine, but I can't do gymkhana for at LEAST a year because(in the words of the trainer)" I'd be asking to get hurt". I don't trust him, and he will sense that and then you know what will probably happen.......... So in a sense, I am a bit over my head.
And I'm NOT asking to get hurt.


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## upnover

FehrGroundRanch said:


> It's more than just teenages that are in over their head. I know of alot of adults that are also in way over their head!!


It's DEFINITELY more then just teenagers that get in over their heads! There's a older and experienced dressage lady at my barn who bought a nice laid back (FANCY) WB as a 3 year old from a fantastic breeder. She lessons regularly with a great trainer, very sweet, but tiny and somewhat timid. This sweet 3 y/o grew to be a giant and LAZY 17.3 elephant who learned very quickly how to throw his weight around. While it's not a horribly dangerous situation it's not great. There are a lot of days when she does not ride him, days when she does not enjoy riding him, and a lot of people who have tried to talk to her about selling him and getting something more suitable. But for some reason she has some crazy 'commitment' to this horse. He has the breeding and potential to be VERY successful in the show ring (which she has no desire to do). It just seems like a waste for her to not always enjoy her horse, and for him to not to be used to his potential. But she will own him til the day he dies. WHY?!

When people get a puppy and have no follow through (gives it away when it's not cute anymore, gives it away b/c heaven forbid it chewed something up) it ****es me off. Commit to the training and welfare of your puppy and keep it, it's not a library book. But while an unruly puppy pees on your floor, an unruly horse can kill you. I admit, I often judge people who get dogs and then give them to shelters b/c they don't wnat to take care of it anymore. I COMMEND people who realize the horse isn't right for them and find it a good home. 

Thanks JDI, great article!


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## Icrazyaboutu

I was like that. I was a green rider, I learned on my pony that has been there done that. I trust him with my life along with all my friends and family. Well, when I was 12 my cousin's best friend's dad told me that I needed a big horse and that he had the one for me. Oh boy! I didn't sell my pony(thank god!), never will. I tested this horse, he was a 12yo appy. He was a dream to ride! I walked, troted, cantered, stopped, and backed with ease for our first few months together. I felt I had found my perfect horse. We had a great bond and I trusted him. Then gymkhana season started up... He was previously a western/english pleasure horse and couldn't stand the idea of going fast in an arena. Every single gymkhana he bucked me at least once. Funny thing was it was only in the show arena he was great in my backyard arena and would go without problems down the trail. His name, Tater(Bucking Tater on youtube) yes I was the inexperienced little girl getting bucked and reared with, I know it looked like I was causing it but I wasnt he is really just a bucker. I finally listed him for sale when he bucked me ten+ times in one event! I stayed on everytime(except when i hit my head but I managed to wait it out then slide off) and I truely loved this horse. I had a few people come look at him but almost everyone was put off that he was a bucker. 
The first lady that liked him traded me his very energetic morgan, he was totally different, fast choppy gait, high head, lotsa energy and to tell the truth I knew it was gonna take a long time to get use to and i didnt know if I was comfortable with him. Luckily the lady gave Tater back before she could trade him(we think she was a horsetrader) and the day he came back I was seriously thinking I might just give up gymkhana and keep him for trails. He was perfect riding in a halter and lead rope. The lady said he was horrible for her and when she told him he was going home he jumped in the trailer. I dont doubt that. 
The second lady that took interest was lovely. She was so nice and happy. I knew they would be good and she bought him. I knew she was good for him the day she came to pick him up. He was having loading issues and decided not to get in the trailer. She sat there for almost an hour slowly coaxing him in because she knew if she rushed him or got upset that he wouldn't like the trailer. She also doesnt mind his bucking. She says he starts off every trail ride with his signature buck but she has learned to hang on and that now it routine.
I still really miss him and sometimes regret selling him, my new horse also needed work and he still does but I know it will take another year or so before I can get him to be calm like Tater or Bart on trails. 
I have only seen Tater once since I sold him a year ago. It was from a distance but I really want to go and ask if I can ride him again. She would say yes.

Sorry for my novel its just I have been thinking about my decision to sell him lately(weather it was good or bad)...


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## spence

kitten_Val said:


> I'm NOT arguing here, but just wondering. If you get say wild horse (btw, I don't see anything romantic about getting wild horse, but only problems unless you have tons of experience to deal with one) or horse with problems (for example, seller lied or you took one out of pity (YES, it's NOT the way to go, but things happen)), and horse is too much for you AND noone is interested even in taking it for free. Now what should you do? Put it down? Sell it to the meat plant?


that's what REALLY chaps my butt about the shutting down of kill houses in the states. there ARE some horses out there that are just plain truly useless. if they had not shut them down, then those who are in over their heads and know it would have an out that would be able to even come out with a buck or two in hand instead of absolutely nothing.


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## travlingypsy

Great post! And you see it happening everywhere. Even with me! 

I had lessons since I was 7 for 2 years then off and on later. Untill I got my first horse 4 years ago. She was a dominant,problem horse, that had many set backs. I bought her from my trainer. I took weekly lessons learning ground work, nat. horsemanship, ect. Basicly "learning with the horse"
And really looking back on ALL that work now and what happend. My trainer just "pushed" the horse on me. I turned Gypsy down at least 4 times. I also REALLY wanted a horse and finally broke down after a couple lessons with her.My trainer never should of pushed Gypsy on me like that and should have listened to my no's. But since she wanted Gypsy out of her care...

It was at least a year until things started to work and click. After our fights on who was the lead/dominant mare. I wouldnt say I won the fight more as we came to the conclusion of working together and giving into each personality rather then fighting all about it. I accepted her and she accepted me. Thus, we became the best in our group lessons. 
3 years after, I started to HATE my trainer. And re-think how I was training and being taught. I hated the fact that I had to install fear into getting my horse to accept my leadership and do what she was told. Like "move out on the circle OR you will get smacked in the shoulder!" Why!? Do I have to hit my horse like that? Yes, it worked out she went on the circle. We learned ground work,ect. But she wasnt a kicking, rearing, lunging at me kind of horse where that kind of force was needed "out of my space or im going to smack you" 

Once I started looking outside the box (My trainers world) I found a lot of info on liberty training and clicker training. Once I started using those methods Gypsy and I bonded like never before! It was amazing. I mean really we didnt have a bond of friendship more of just partnership. Now she sees me as the lead mare and is willing to do what i ask of her, there is no more need for force/hitting. 
I guess what my point is in working with horses. If a method isnt working toss it out,move on to the next thing..maybe that next step/method will be the one your horse needs. Like said before education,training,lessons! Its easier going through life as a student and allowing yourself to learn more and new things then letting your ego get in your way. It will only hold you back...

I most def. agree that there is a time to get out when you cant handle a horse. I think if I would of sold gypsy and gotten an easier mount. I wouldnt of learned as much as I did and also I wouldnt of looked for that other alternative in Liberty training (which is becoming my passion in horses). If Gypsy was ever up for sale you'd know I was dead! IMO Gypsy and I kinda had that fairy tale ending, it wasnt pretty getting there but the end result is fantastic.


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## HalfPass

JDI,
What a great post! 
I am sure there are many people out there in this situation. Many of various ages and experience levels.
It takes a lot of courgae to admit when your in over your head.
Like many others said here....I was once the girl who would hop on just about anything. In some cases I was told mis-information on purpose and then found myself in "sticky" situations.

As many of you already know i had not ridden in years and when I decided to get a second horse, and a youngster at that. She went right into the hands of more qualified persons.

The points made about what should take place before the purchase or acceptance of a "free" horse into one's like are very good things to be brought up. Even in this thread. I say this because it is a piece of information for the person who is in this "stuck" situation to take and make a written note of.

This is a very very common situation I have seen all to many times over the years. 
It is happening with a few people in my barn at the moment. lets just say I feel it is a danger not only to ones self to continue but also for the welfare of the horse and others who may be around.

Once a person is willing to admit they are in over their head and accept this fact ~ then and only then can the next step in the right direction come about.

So if your truly finding yourself in this situation....find a knowledgable person to help you in the process of finding your next horse. By doing this you will spare yourself and another horse of the same destiny...

JDI this is a wonderful post. It seems you have put a lot of thought into it and the way it is presented is absouletly wonderful....so open and non judgemental Great job girl..way to go!

I know we all fall in love with our horses and pets of many kinds, but we really do want for the experience to be enjoyable for us both.

Halfpass


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## NittanyEquestrian

I think that a motivational point these days is that people are afraid if they give up on the horse then they will definitely go to slaughter. And while this is a harsh reality, like someone posted above some just don't have a purpose. If the useless, dangerous, crazy animals are not kept then there would be more good homes for those horses that are sane, sound, willing and happy to have a job. It's a harsh reality but it seems to me that more crazy and dangerous horses have forever homes than the mediocre, safe, sane ones. It's a skewed system.


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## travlingypsy

^^I wish people didnt abuse that system. Of either sending them to the slaughter houses or just shooting them in the back yard. Ive seen a lot of good horses shot that could of had potential and the owner just didnt want to take the time in posting it for sale. Ive also seen a few horses that went to the auction for good reason. But then that dangerous horse might of been picked up at the auction by a rescue/buyer not knowing the history ect. thinking they are going to save this horse, train it then find it a forever home. 
I think if people had just sent the 'bad' ones to slaughter houses, auction sale type things and tried to list the 'good' horses. The rescues would have stayed out of the slaughter yards idk I could be wrong about that tho.


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## kevinshorses

I know more than one guy that used to prowl the horse feedlots looking for horses that were useable. When the prices were good I think there were far less useable horses going to slaughter. Now that slaughter prices are in the toilet and it's so hard to sell a good horse there are many more good gentle horses being killed in one way or another. The entire time the debate to close processing plants was going on very educated and knowledgeable people were warning of the unintended consequences of banning horse slaughter. Now we are reaping those consequences and everyone is suffering particularly the horses.


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## Gidji

I know that for one I'm am in this boat. I bought my rising 2yo under the instruction of my old trainer. I _was stupid but I was told that I WOULD LEARN AS I GO._ I was a competent rider on broke horses, and I could deal with young horses. I think that Ricky could have potentially worked out if I worked with my trainer more. _Maybe._ I did struggle, I did persevere with him. Not so much for the sake of my ego, more for the sake of my horse. He was and still is a pretty quiet horse, however I have realised in the past month that I am not ready to train a young horse on my own.

I know that some of my threads may have prompted this topic, and I think that in itself is a good thing. I know I am not the first to do this and I certainly won't be the last but by educating people it might not happen as often. I love my boy, and part of loving him is knowing when to pass him onto to another more experienced person.


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## upnover

kevinshorses said:


> I know more than one guy that used to prowl the horse feedlots looking for horses that were useable. When the prices were good I think there were far less useable horses going to slaughter. Now that slaughter prices are in the toilet and it's so hard to sell a good horse there are many more good gentle horses being killed in one way or another. The entire time the debate to close processing plants was going on very educated and knowledgeable people were warning of the unintended consequences of banning horse slaughter. Now we are reaping those consequences and everyone is suffering particularly the horses.



EXCELLENT post Kevin. Whole heartedly agree! I've been to several feedlot/auctions in the past and have taken some good ones home. Quite honestly, while yes you saw your rare diamond in the rough there usually weren't many good ones there. Now with this ban on slaughter people are having a tough time getting rid of any horses, good or bad, and the good ones are suffering.


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## Jessabel

Great post. I couldn't agree more. 
I have no doubt that if I hadn't met my instructor when I did, I wouldn't have Victor today. I think the only thing that made me keep him was my fear of him ending up in a bad place. Not many people would want a horse like that. I was an inch away from giving up and selling him, but she turned him into a different horse. He's unrecognizable from what he started out as. He went from a mean-tempered, unfriendly, unpredictable SOB to a normal, enjoyable riding companion. I now realize how incredibly lucky I was to happen across a good trainer. A good coach/instructor/trainer is a godsend. They make all the difference.


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## Solon

This applies to more than a few forum members. I hope they all get a chance to read it and let it soak in.

There's nothing worse to read about someone's difficulties with a horse, see people give them advice to move on to a better horse, see the owner claim I can't sell my soul mate, have that person get hurt by said horse and come back here to get sympathy.


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## Gidji

Solon said:


> This applies to more than a few forum members. I hope they all get a chance to read it and let it soak in.
> 
> There's nothing worse to read about someone's difficulties with a horse, see people give them advice to move on to a better horse, *see the owner claim I can't sell my soul mate*, have that person get hurt by said horse and come back here to get sympathy.


I for one agree. Yes, I have a lot of difficulties with Ricky and yerr, I do come to this forum sometimes for help. However, I've realised that no horse is worth getting youself hurt for.
*If you love something, let it go. No matter how much it hurts, there will always be a silver lining.*


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## JustDressageIt

I believe now is an appropriate time for a BUMP.


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## wild_spot

Amen!

****


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## Wallaby

For sure! Preach it sista'! lol


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## IllComeALopin

...I love the excuse "_we just don't have the money_"

I guess you should have done your homework before buying a horse... becuase horses _do_ cost a lot of money be it vet bills, feed costs, tack, or training.

If you don't _'have the money'_ for training then sell the horse and *a)* save up and buy somthing you can enjoy and ride or *b)* get out of horses until you do have the money.


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## Indyhorse

Absolutely brilliant post, JDI. You ought to have this published. Seriously. This article needs read by every member of the horse community, especially the beginners, and I can think of quite a few non-beginners that would benefit from this read as well.

Thank you for writing this.


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## Walkamile

JDI, wonderful post. It immediately brought me back to that "one" horse. Many years ago, I leased a couple of horses. One was a very well trained morgan cross, the other a gorgeous appy.

Well, that appy put me through everything imaginable. Basically in a nut shell the horse didn't concern himself with his own safety, so mine was not even on the radar. Needless to say, did not renew the lease. But it left me feeling like I failed somehow. 

Off to lessons I went. There , my instructor evalualted me and after a short time, had me riding all the "new' horses. She liked how I handled each one, and felt I had the skills and temperment (calm and steady) to "size" each one up and give her "feed back" about them. She helped me gain my confindence back. 

When I finally spoke to her about the appy, she said something that struck home to me. First, was that a horse that doen't concern itself with it's own safety is a danger to everyone around it, including itself. Second, she told me that my instincts where correct that something was wrong with the horse, it wasn't my riding ability. My riding ability/instincts is what kept me safe, knowing when to push and when to back off. 

Long story short, I have never forgotten that horse. I know that if I ever run into another like it and get that feeling (horse not stable), I will dismount faster than a rocket! That is probably why a horses temperment/mind is so important to me. 

There is no shame in admitting that a particular horse is more (for whatever reason) then you can/want to handle at this point in your life. I am at an age now that I do not walk away from a fall. There will be an injury, and I have too many financial responsibilities to risk it.

So, I leave "playing the hero" to the characters in the movies. I ride because it's my hobby and relaxation. Can't do that if the horse is way too much to handle, for whatever reason.


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## Indyhorse

Walkamile said:


> JDI, wonderful post. It immediately brought me back to that "one" horse. Many years ago, I leased a couple of horses. One was a very well trained morgan cross, the other a gorgeous appy.
> 
> Well, that appy put me through everything imaginable. Basically in a nut shell the horse didn't concern himself with his own safety, so mine was not even on the radar. Needless to say, did not renew the lease. But it left me feeling like I failed somehow.
> 
> Off to lessons I went. There , my instructor evalualted me and after a short time, had me riding all the "new' horses. She liked how I handled each one, and felt I had the skills and temperment (calm and steady) to "size" each one up and give her "feed back" about them. She helped me gain my confindence back.
> 
> When I finally spoke to her about the appy, she said something that struck home to me. First, was that a horse that doen't concern itself with it's own safety is a danger to everyone around it, including itself. Second, she told me that my instincts where correct that something was wrong with the horse, it wasn't my riding ability. My riding ability/instincts is what kept me safe, knowing when to push and when to back off.
> 
> Long story short, I have never forgotten that horse. I know that if I ever run into another like it and get that feeling (horse not stable), I will dismount faster than a rocket! That is probably why a horses temperment/mind is so important to me.
> 
> There is no shame in admitting that a particular horse is more (for whatever reason) then you can/want to handle at this point in your life. I am at an age now that I do not walk away from a fall. There will be an injury, and I have too many financial responsibilities to risk it.
> 
> So, I leave "playing the hero" to the characters in the movies. I ride because it's my hobby and relaxation. Can't do that if the horse is way too much to handle, for whatever reason.



Walkamile, that is almost exactly my own experience, with the one "bad egg" I had as well! Only she was a friesian/walker cross mare, she would be lathered before I even tightened the cinch. She frequently fell down on me trying to sidepass the entire 2.5 mile trail course I rode on (she's just sidepass when I would keep her from bolting). Those are almost the exact words I was told - "she doesn't care about her own safety so she certainly doesn't give a **** about her rider". The *third* trainer I brought in to work with her just told me flat out, she's just not meant to be a riding horse. She never will be.

But in a weird way, while giving her up was certainly the right choice, I'm kinda glad I had her, too. It's good to be confronted with your limits from time to time, lest you come to think you have none.


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## Snowkicker

I find it is a lot easier to fall truly in LOVE with a horse you feel comfortable and confident riding, than one that scares the crap out of you. Otherwise It's like an abusive relationship.


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## mom2pride

kitten_Val said:


> I'm NOT arguing here, but just wondering. If you get say wild horse (btw, I don't see anything romantic about getting wild horse, but only problems unless you have tons of experience to deal with one) or horse with problems (for example, seller lied or you took one out of pity (YES, it's NOT the way to go, but things happen)), and horse is too much for you AND noone is interested even in taking it for free. Now what should you do? Put it down? Sell it to the meat plant?


My last horse (the one I lost last May) was sold to me as being ready to ride...I soon found out the contrary, that he was no where near being ready to ride, and was in fact fearful of everything and anything to do with human beings. Well...fortunately for me, that didn't matter a whole lot, as I had wanted a project horse anyway. I hadn't bargained for having to totally retrain him, but that's what I did...I went back and trained him like as if no one had ever touched him before, and I did it slowly; I figured, it had taken them 5 years to get him this fearful, there was no way I was going to undo it in just a few weeks...well, okay, I could have, but why bother? I had his whole life to spend enjoying him, so why rush things? So I spent the next 10 months reintroducing him to everything, and finally after owning him for 11 months, I finally presumed him to be ready, mentally, to ride...we never looked back, he was the best trail horse I have owned. So to answer your question, if I wind up with a horse with issues that I may not have been told, I try my best to slowly work through them...if I win, like I did with Pride, fabulous...if I don't, then I would look at finding another person who may have more experience than me in dealing with that particular issue or behavior in a horse and sell, or place the horse with full disclosure. 

Now, I've never experienced a horse that is 'unfixable' quite yet, but I guess if I ever did, the most humane thing I could think of would be to put it down...I couldn't, personally, place a horse with issues that could get someone killed no matter if they knew about them or not; if the horse is so damaged on the inside that there's no hope for him to come around, I would rather know what happened to him than to place him with someone else, and potentially start a cycle of him being handed from person to person, possibly being abused and neglected in the process. I know some people are opposed to putting an animal to sleep that is 'healthy' physically but I think an animal that is unstable mentally is unhealthy as well, and if it is so bad to the extent that is impunes that animal's quality of life, I think it's up to us to decide what's best for him.


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## JustDressageIt

Time for a big ol' bump.


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## smrobs

IMHO, this thread is completely worthy of a sticky. 

Love it Allie, wonderfully written (even though I missed it the first time around).


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## JustDressageIt

smrobs said:


> IMHO, this thread is completely worthy of a sticky.
> 
> Love it Allie, wonderfully written (even though I missed it the first time around).


 
Thanks! If the Mods want to sticky it, that's fine by me


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## mom2pride

There you go ladies...I find it stick worthy as well  ...couldn't stick it last year since I wasn't a mod yet...Lol!


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## JustDressageIt

Thank you! I'm honored.


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## slc

When to stick with it: bruises

When to move on: fractures


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## Ladytrails

Oh my gosh, SLC, too funny (but not really funny...if you know what I mean). I would also add it's time to move on: Concussion. From personal experience...


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## Islandmudpony

Hey, great thread, JDI  My sister and I got our first horse when we were 13 and 14... and it was a learning curve for all 3 of us. She was a 14 YO morab mare, and would have made a great pet (except that she always escaped if she was alone), or a great trail horse (except that she wouldn't go by herself and spooked at everything big or noisy), or been a good lesson horse (except that she was lazy as hell). If anything, I was underhorsed. But my parents didn't want to get a second horse, and my sister wouldn't part with her. Not even the next year, when she started high school and pretty much stopped riding. Not the year after that... etc. Until we'd had her for 5 years (the last of which she was leased out to our coach for a lesson horse) and _I stopped taking care of her_. This wasn't a failing to let go and being in personal danger issue... this was just failing to let go period. And I now I see her doing the same thing, where she is in a caretaker relationship with an alcoholic, and raising his 3 kids from a previous marriage. I know this is a horse thread - but it's also a human nature issue. Some of us just don't have the ability to give up and let go, no matter how futile and self-destructive our efforts become. Unfortunately, the longer we go on these situations, the greater the personal damage can become. With horses, it can mean broken bones, broken spirits, and usually losing the desire to ride alltogether. And with horses and the other things we can't let go of... we have to take a "fall". We have to admit that yes, we were wrong, we couldn't change the situation, and yes, we failed. And we have to have enough self-esteem to accept ourselves afterward and move on in pursuing what makes us happy - whether that's fresh start with a different horse, or a completely new path in life. 

Thanks everyone that shared their stories in this thread


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## ButtInTheDirt

This is indeed a very good article. I can say myself that I have the same problem that alot of other horse owners have. But it wasn't intirely my fault, because it was my parents who had little experience and got me the horse. Not that I'm saying I am mad at them for making my dream come true, but I probably should have gotten a more broke horse. :3

I started out with a 3 year old gelding, I worked with him before we even owned him. We started him at about 2 years, and I was about 8 years old. Now a tall chubby 8 year old is probably not going to fair well against a greenbroke young gelding and a trainer who doesn't have very good methods.

But of course, I got way to attached. Fell off twice before we switched trainers. But now it is working amazingly. This new trainer shows me a way to work with him, and I can really see his personality and intellegence. He still acts like a bratty teenager most of the time, and will test my patience, but he is far from where he was. I still probably should get a different horse because now I'm so terrified of riding him it's pathetic. We got another horse so he's pretty "herdbound," so that's made him even naughtier. So there is about a thousand problems with our two horses, but I still don't want to give up on him. I guess I'm just a stubborn person, but at least in the last four years I've made some progress with him.

I'm sort of an example of what not to do. Dx Oh well, at least this way I can give people some advice as to what to do. I do see myself with horses in my future, at least I hope to god I can have my own farm and be able to train horses for people, aswell as train people. :3


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## Katze

Wow awesome post's everyone! Really opened my eyes and made my resolve 200% stronger!! My hubby has been harping about buying a foal versus a 4-7 yr old, gist of it is, we can train it, it will be used to only us blablabla...yadayada..well you all get it lol. I'm no trainer, neither is my husband lol, and I dont want to pour buckets of cash into a foal,nor do I want to ruin him either. So yeah 4-7 yr olds here I come, ty all for your great posts !!


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## xxBarry Godden

JDI
Lady, Nicely written with oodles of common sense.

The problem arises not just with the horse that is out of control but also when the horse's capability exceeds that of the rider.

The underlying problem is that when we go out to buy the horse and bring it into our families sometimes we don't see the reality of what the horse represents - and we don't find out for a few months that we have made a mistake.

At best buying a horse is a 50/50 scenario, either we buy the horse which proves to be suitable or we buy the horse which proves to be unsuitable.

Sadly I can't see a workable answer to what must be a recurring problem.

I repeat, JDI, nicely written.

B G


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## FTFOTB

JDI, that was a _great_ post and I'm glad the moderators put it at the top. 
You addressed a lot of very important points that I'm sure many people would be afraid to admit. That is to be commended. 

As an 'older' person with many decades of horse experience, I can look back on my life with horses and see how many of the things you mentioned were remedied, from my own perspective. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts for lessons learned. No one can 'buy' experience. 

In reading many horse forums, I see a common thread, which include nearly everything you've already mentioned. I see many people taking lessons without the benefit of just going out and 'doing' (riding). I agree with many here that hanging onto a horse that is above a person's ability is not a good idea. I think finding a horse that a person can just go ride and gain knowledge and experience with is the best way. After a few years of just riding, formal lessons can later be added if one wanted to go in a specific direction with their riding. Whoever said that a newbie will 'ruin' a few horses before they are where they need to be is absolutely correct. I can look back and see the mistakes I made. But I think in this day and age, with all the communication and information available, a lot of those mistakes can be prevented.

The best thing I can offer from my own experiences is to ride. Ride as often as you can, on as many different horses as you can, with as many different people as you can, from all walks of life. You will learn what to do, and most importantly, what _not_ to do. Being exposed to a variety of riders, horsemen, horses, tack, disciplines, all of that, will add to your knowledge base and experience like nothing else can. You will come out of it an excellent rider with a good seat, good balance, and ready to go in any direction that you'd like to go in. You will be ready for that horse of your dreams, and you will likely be more than capable of handling almost any situation that came up.


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## MHFoundation Quarters

KUDOS JDI! New to this forum and this is by far the best thread I have seen on here. There are entirely too many of those situations out there! 

Another huge factor I see with these situations is the economy and the horse market in general. I've seen so much of this the last few years. I judge 4-H, Foundation quarter horse and ranch shows. In the 4-H shows in particular I have seen so many in over their heads and more than enough kids hauled off in ambulances that I could just scream. Every little girl dreams of owning a horse and parents see a chance to give their child a dream come true and think spending a few hundred bucks or saving a rescue is going to do that. There is a fine line between dream & nightmare. 

Beginners need beginner horses, not unbroke 2 yr olds or "projects". Leave the training to trainers or be sure you have proper help and guidance and be prepared to pay for it. My family has always had a rule of thumb for us growing up as kids, "Until you are 12, you aren't allowed to own a horse younger than you are" 

That rule paid off in spades for me. I started riding on my own at 3 with a lovely antique of a mare and she gave me the best 9 yrs of riding time I've ever had. Don't get me wrong, I've owned and still own lots of wonderful horses but "Bunny" gave me the basics of horsemanship and confidence and taught me so much with an enormous amount of patience. She taught me to read a horse and I owe her a huge debt of gratitude for teaching me to ride with soft quiet hands. When I turned 12, my grandpa let me have my pick of that year's weanling crop - I chose a jet black filly with not a speck of white on her. My mom (a grad of Findlay college and now a retired trainer) helped me step by step with her from imprinting at birth to finished show horse. 

Her name is Buttons. She is now 21 and is the antique that my 5 yr old daughter now loves to bits.


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## mom2pride

I still remember the horse I learned how to ride on; the horse was an absolute 'giant' but he was one amazing horse. A 16.2 hh QH cross gelding...you could do anything to that horse, and he didn't care. I 'graduated' from him to another older shetland mare when mom and I got into showing. She could be stubborn but she wasn't a nasty pony by any means, and also served to help me continue learning how to ride and care for horses. I also got on any horse I possibly could, as well, and liked the 'tough to ride' horses, even at a young age. When I out grew my pony, because of my skill level, my trainer told my parents that she would help us train a green horse, if that was what we wanted next. So I wound up with a green broke Shetland/Morgan cross...he was a royal pain in the rear, but he taught me alot about training, and my trainer helped us every step of the way with that horse. I think if more people actually made sure to have professional help with their young, or otherwise, green horses, there wouldn't be so many "Help, Problem horse..." threads/dilemmas. I'm not against the average person training their own horse, it's the delusion that one can do it on their own, after just having studied books, or watching a video that bugs me. Get hands on help, and things will go much smoother!


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## apachewhitesox

I think this article is great. I learnt on a mare that wasn't push button but she taught me a lot and I trust her with anything. She was only to be loaned to us so we were looking for a horse and found a quiet thoroughbred gelding. Being inexperienced first time owners we got tricked about him being perfect for a beginner. We were told he was lazy but he would go well, I soon found out he would plant his feet and not move, turn back to the gate, rear up he also bucked a few times. His worst habit was the rearing though. My instructor said when he first started maybe he's just testing you cause your new ( they were only tiny rears) just push him through it and that seemed to work at first. Then he just got worse and simply didn't want to go so my instructor said I was probably going to get hurt so she would take him for awhile because everyone believed he was just to much for me personally. She had him for a couple of months and she decided he was ring sour and was possibly good for trails, she hadn't actually taken him out but had taken him from the arena to their back paddock and she said he behaved a lot better. She was undable to work with him anymore because she moved so he came back to me. We had already decided to sell him because he was just to much for me to ride. I have since been working with him on the ground a lot and lunging. He is now almost perfectly behaved on the ground, he can still have his days of being a bit silly but no where near as bad as before. We have been unable to sell him though and so I just work with him on the ground whenever I'm not to busy with my other two horses (who mum makes me put before him because they are rideable). I don't know how he would go for me now under saddle because he respects me a lot more on the ground now. I don't want to wreck him from me doing something wrong with him and we are still looking for a new instructor for me. Sorry for being long just my story.


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## xxBarry Godden

"Sorry for being long just my story"

Apache, you don't have to apologise for anything. It seems to me that you are telling we readers what your problem is and that can take time.
You tell us you have a problem
You tell us you've been to a certain extent mislead and let down
You tell us you are working on the problem

What is difficult for we readers is to come up with a sharp sharp series of solutions because the problems which you are experiencing are not uncommon and the solutions are not always easy to find.

I haven't seen your horse, nor met you, nor seen you with your horse.
I can't approach your horse, I can't play with him. I can't sense his problems
All in all from thousands of miles away I am pretty useless at trying to give you positive advice in a few words. But here are a few words, hopefully to be of help.

Presumably you have a training ring - if not create one , round, oblong or square. This arena becomes your horse's work room. When you take him in there he works and he expects to work. 
Groom him every day, even if he is not dirty. Get him used to your touch, your smell, your voice, your little ways. Make yourself, his personal owner. 

What I can say is that you seem to be doing the best you can and you haven't given up. Which is a credit to you. You are not going 'to wreck him' because you are not going to hurt him.

As a guess, I repeat, a guess. I'd suggest going back to working him in hand from the ground. Buy a thin rope training halter which works on the nose and on the poll. Read carefully the instructions as to how to use it. If you use it incorrectly it hurts so be careful with it. 
Get him to walk at your shoulder on a loose rein. 
When you turn right, he should turn. 
When you stop he stops. When you walk on, he walks on. 
You play with him every day for 20 minutes or so, at the same time, in the same place. Regular routine is important for a horse.

Then slowly but surely bring into the scenario, obstacles such as he might meet out on the trailsie logs, plastic bags - whatever. Dustbins are great, they fall over. Poles on the ground. plastic sheeting. Buckets, flags. 
Walk him over them, around them, get him to knock them over with his feet. 

Once he does these things at the walk, with your head by his head, then do the same things at the walk with you up in the saddle. Walk, turn, stop, start, back up. stand. Walk him into corners, then back up out of them.

He has to learn the aids - your aids (cues). If you turn your head, he goes that way. 

There are to be lots of tid bits. Lots of smooth calming voice. Lots of strokes and touch. No whipping. No shouting, No coarse handlng. When he does something wrong - tell him 'No' , then make him do it again.

But he has to walk out at your command . 
There can be no balking, nor rearing, nor whirling.
Quiet, patient, persistance from you at all times. 
No anger,no loud voices, no tension. Ask, Insist, Demand.
Use your hands, your pointed fingers, your body - shove him over. 
Watch him. Learn his responses. Learn his individual ways. 
Find out what he likes - then ration it, but don't ever deny him completely. Use what he likes as a bribe. 
Find his fears and then allay them, one by one. 

And remember one other thing - whenever you go to your other horses, he is watching. He is wondering why you are playing with them and not him. He might well be jealous. So be careful not to show favouritism. Every now and again go to him first and ignore the other two.

Apache. I can't tell you how to work this animal, I've never seen it. I am just giving you some tips to try. I can't see what you are doing wrong - if anything. Just make sure you don't get hurt. 
All I can say, is that if you can turn this animal, then you'll probably have a faithful servant for life. 
He'll owe you.

And stop apologising.

B G

PS There is another recent thread on the forum about 'bonding', read it.


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## apachewhitesox

^^^ Thanks for the advice apart from riding him all of the above is basically what I have been doing. I probably should do it more often then I do but I do sometimes only spend the afternoon with him and not my other horses. I feel he has improved a lot over the past few months. I just am not game to get on him because I can be quite a nervous rider. For example when being lunged he used to simply stop and rear at a walk or not go out of the circle, now he is almost perfect on the lunge line since he knows I'm not goiing to take his silliness and I have improved with giving the right signals. I don't even have to be holding him for him to understand my cues for him to move a particular part of his body. He is also the most polite horse when it comes to dinner time and he is the top horse of the paddock. I feel he has come to respect me a lot more since I first got him but he still has a long way to go. I also think I have read that bond thread.


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## xxBarry Godden

Apache,
Sometimes I read back what I have written a few days earlier and I realize that my written words may have come over a little strong. Maybe when replying to you that was the case*. I apologise. *

If you are already doing with your horse what I suggested, then you are doing about as much as you can. All you now need is time, a little luck and some cooperation from the horse.

Sometime an animal which has been abused can’t bring itself to come to terms with humans. I have found with some rescued big dogs that I can’t pass them on to yet another owner. The animal has lost faith in humans.

We now have on our new small private yard a small group of horses Each animal is gifted in its own way but each shows the marks of some abuse I the past. They all call for very sensitive and careful handling. None of them, for different reasons, would last more than a few weeks in the hands of a novice owner. If we are to sell them on, and things don’t gel with a new owner, then we shall have to bring them back or later hear they have been put down or at least passed on yet again. But sadly in such cases the mental trauma to the animal will have been compounded by the latest unsuccessful episode. 

Of our group of strays perhaps the easiest to find a home for is a very genuine 8 year old cob; a horse needing regular and close contact with a human. His owner never plays with him nor grooms him nor works him, even though he cries out for attention. She has even instructed that no one else is to ride him. Presently her priorities in life are elsewhere. 

He is not neglected by the way of food or shelter but he lacks stimulation which this little chap desperately needs. I have started to play with him and now he follows me about. When I arrive on the yard, his head goes up and he watches out for me to go over and say hello. Sadly, over the long term, there is no place for him in my life, I just want to see him find a good home with a young family. However the more I give him comfort, the more he will look to me to be his human carer. So knowing he is to be sold on, I must be careful not to allow him to become dependent upon me. But it is more than I can personally do, to ignore him completely.

We have another mare who came in the other week, as a bag of bones - literally. We paid $40 to take title to her. We are feeding her up and she is being groomed regularly. We are giving her some TLC. But whenever stressed, she weaves. The other day for the first time, I put a lead rope on her and led her out into the schooling arena. She is still partially emaciated but her strength is massive when she works against me. She is going to make a big powerful horse. She’s gentle enough but she is very nervous. 

We shall never be able to remove from her memory the six months of gross neglect when in an icey cold winter she was left out on top of a windy hillside without hay or adequate ice free water. That was probably when she learned her vice. She is beginning to look better but she’s damaged in her head. I have no worry that we can’t bring her back to good shape physically but can we make her rideable? And if we find she can’t be used for riding, what do we do with her? I know only too well that we don’t have the resources to rescue all the horses who currently are seeking a safe knowledgeable home.

So Apache join the rescuers club. All I can say to you is: do your best and follow your gut instincts. Read the books, take advice but in the end follow your own counsel. Let us hope you have some success with your chap. Forming a bond with the horse, if it will let you, must be the first step in rehabilitation. 

And, again, my apologies, if my words read harshly. 
Barry G


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## apachewhitesox

Thanks and its alright it did not come across as really strong or anything I would rather someone just told it to me straight. It's nice to hear you help all those horses if I could I would love to be able to do something like that. My boy is definitely the sort who would become very aggressive if beaten or anything I believe. He is also the sort of horse who couldn't really care less if you left him alone or played with him (luckily for me I have other horses who are much more affectionate) I think he may be starting to change though its only taken 7 months lol. I take into account everything people tell me and then try it with him and depending on how he responds I keep going with it or stop. I try to watch his body language as closely as possible when I work with him. I'm starting to find it a lot easier to read him with the slightest movement on his part and I think he's done the same with me. So this has kind of made us bond a bit more over the last couple of months.


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## horseloverd2

Wow JDI, great post. I really like the part about mentioning training a horse isn't a romantic book with a perfect ending, because I tend to think it is a lot. I bought my girl a year ago... I guess.... minor problems. She didn't trust people but I loved her, so I got her. 

I still love said horse and wouldn't sell her for the world. In all honesty the year I've had her, I've probably only been truly working with her for 3 months. I was kind of the opposite, I was scared to fail so I'd justify it by going to the barn to just visit her, give her treats, then let her go back to the pasture. The mere thought of failing was too much for me and I maybe worked her, I don't know, a half hour a week? She was spoiled, and now I realize that. I do much more work with her now. My new barn owner knows his stuff when it comes to training so I feel comfortable about making mistakes. That's how we learn. She is coming along _so_ well now. The stable owner mentioned today how relaxed she was. Since she's not a dangerous horse, I've decided to 'stick with it.' Plus, I love that girl more than anything. 

But thinking back even farther to my first horse, Dakota, I realize how much I have learned. I kind of did ruin him. I had never had a horse before, I was only 14 years old, and I thought I could train absolutely anything. Three years later, I look back on all I have learned and realize that's the important thing. Moving forward. These wonderful trainers we see weren't born horse whisperers. They have studied the horse a long time and took advice from other people. People need to stop portraying horse training like they do marriage - perfect in movies, happy endings, etc. when in real life it takes a lot of hard work and respect!

Thanks again for the wonderful post!


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## dannyboy834

I do agree with the OP. I have seen quite a few inexperienced people buy young horses, and then immediately get hurt. I think a lot of them don't know what they are dealing with. That being said, I think a good trainer can fix almost any problem, as long as the person is willing to work WITH the trainer and learn too. I am not personally a big fan of the "ship the horse off to a trainer and get it back fixed" mentality. I think the rider needs to learn the methods with the horse, and that a horse cannot be magically fixed no matter how much experience the trainer has. 
I also agree with the OP's comment that a person needs to know when to put the ego away and get help. I had this experience recently. I bought an OTTB (and I'll admit I didn't know what I was getting into). After she backed up and fell down on top of me, I decided it was time to call in help. But then the question becomes, where do you find help? How do you know if a horse trainer is good or loony tunes (and I also agree that there are WAAAAY too many loony people out there calling themselves "trainers").
I think the key, the like OP said, is to use word of mouth. Talk to other people who have had problem horses, and what trainers they have used. If possible, watch the trainer in action, giving a lesson or working with a horse. It takes a special kind of trainer to work with a problem horse. It can't just be somebody who gives riding lessons. That is a different skill set altogether.
That being said, I lucked out and found a wonderful trainer. He immediately understood that my horse had a problem responding to pressure. She thought backing up would allow her to escape pressure. He started her over and we are slowly reteaching her all of the commands. She is a doll and I love her greatly, and am so glad I didn't give her up. So, in summary, I DO think a horse can be fixed, but like the OP said, we have to be humble enough to know when we can't do it ourselves.


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## Trilogy

What a great thread. I was obssessed with horses all my life. I 'galloped' beside the car every single journey, I had no other conversation but horses and would have owned a 3 legged breakdown, just to 'own' one. Fast forward 20 something years and my obsession continued. At last I had the money to consider owning and I was offered...free....a wonderful sound beautiful event horse. Wow. A dream come true. I rode her and loved her. But when I got her home the nightmare started. She needed a strong confident handler and although I tried my hardest, I just wasn't it. I couldn't ride her and could barely handler her. I got trainers, helpers, books, videos, but the day came when I had to face the facts. It was a perfect day...warm, a mild breeze, I had nothing to do. I made every excuse under the sun: the washing needed doing, I had to pluck my eyebrows, clean my saddle etc and my husband looked at me and said 'you are avoiding going to the barn aren't you'. Well after floods of tears I realised that my lifelong ambition of owning a horse had fallen sadly flat. But how could I give her up? She was the answer to every childhood dream. 

A close friend came with me one day and watched me fruitlessly trying to lead her, my horse was lathered up, twisting, spinning and rearing. My freind quietly said to me 'does she look happy?'. That night I placed a for sale advert and the very next day an amazing lady came and looked at her. She is so much more experienced than me and the difference was amazing. She bought my mare and they give me follow ups, the mare I knew doesn't exist, but is now calm, willing and a fun ride.

I took a little while to get over the guilt and placed a wanted ad after sifting through the crazy people who think that a 3 year old TB is suitable for a, now nervous, beginner owner (what is it with those people?? I don't care how many pics you have of your 3 year old kid on their backs!) I found my Eli! A 10 year old anglo arab who is laidback, calm, well trained and willing to please. What a difference. He is my soulmate because I trust him 100%. 

It is a hard situation to be in, and it is easy to feel pressured into wrong choices. We do grow up with 'national velvet' syndrome where all little girls can tame the wildest horses and feel like failures when we don't.

But, it took me 30 years to find a man I wanted to marry....why did I honestly think I could find my other life partner so quickly!


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## Quedeme

Ah yes....heros...

I've been in that boat so many times. I felt horrible, and grand, and every emotion in between!

To start off my tale I shall regale the wonderful memory of Rajah. A BEAUTIFUL, papered, well bred, straight egyptian arabian mare. She was 16 and had only ever been a pasture pet. But, she was a love to handle and seemed VERY eager to please. She never meant to hurt me and if she thought she HAD, she looked SO upset with herself! (hard to believe, but true!) Well. I was that naive, young horse lover and after a year of nothing but ground work and bonding, I knew it was time to 'ride' her....She already took saddle, bit, girth, and everything like a seasoned trail pony. Now...to get on her. I wasn't so stupid to be the first though...I'd hardly ridden and while I seemed a 'natural' at ground work, I KNEW I was no trainer. Heck, I didn't even know if I had the RIGHT tack. So, I do the responsible thing and go through the search for a trainer that was willing to come out to my barn (I lacked a trailer blarg). I found one, and he WASN'T cheap. I asked all the 'right' questions, right down to "Do you mind using my tack? Or at least looking at it to tell me if it's ok for us?" he refused. He didn't do 'that' sort of thing! (red flag!!!!!!) Well, I figure he's right, and just let him do his 'job'.....A year of ground work went out the door as he back-end cynched her! (not sure what it's called but he wrapped a rope around her 'waist' and pulled on it till she bucked!...also RED FLAG!!!!) By now though he's in 'charge' and I wasn't knowing enough, or ballsy enough to say anything otherwise. She eventually calms down and he tacks her up. She stands like a pro. He gets on her and walks her a short bit, then gets off, starts to untack her and says "You can ride her tomorrow...and you should now that she's broke" (RED FLAG!!!!!! OMG THE RED FLAGGG!!!!) Well, my naive butt thought "omg I'm going to ride!" So, come the next day, I lunge her, tack her up, lunge her again, and I get ready to get on....I get on, take a deep breath, and give the lightest 'squeeze' I could....and...she bolts. I'm NOT a trainer! I'm BARELY a rider!!! (things I flat out TOLD the trainer the day before!) Not only did she bolt, but...she took the reins! So ALL I have to hold onto is the horn of a VERY bad saddle! (found out AFTER the fact!!!!) End result? Broken back. She turned just before running into a fence and I went flying, hitting my lower back and hips against a wooden fence post....which THANK GOD, also broke! Talk about pain...there is nothing like a broken back...if you're lucky that is....Feeling pain let me know I would ride again one day, and how 'lucky' I was...Sadly, no matter how 'good' that mare was....I knew then, I couldn't handle her. For a year she was a blessing...after that though...it was too much. It took me a month to be able to walk without crutches, two months to have the courage to go into the pasture again, and 6 months to ride again. Luckily at that time I had a wonderful percheron gelding who taught me that I wouldn't fall 'every' time. Needless to say, the wonderful Raja was given to a woman who specialized in training and handling older horses that had no previous riding time. And she even said that if she was 'untrainable' she loved her personality SO much, she'd gladly make her a pasture pet if the need came down to it. A month later I get news that her 26 year old niece was riding her on trails! 

This brings me to my second horse. The percheron gelding. Blue was an AMAZING ride! Not the smoothest thing in the world, but so sturdy, solid, calm, patient, willing, forgiving, and so many other wonderful things I can't begin to describe! I had actually made payments on him for nearly 2 years without even SEEING him in person, only pictures from his previous owner that lived several states away. Well, I got him as a 4 year old stud (still a silly 'child' here). The day I got him, I tripped while leading him, he spooked, and jumped right OVER me! I called the trainer I had lined up for him while still on the ground (I wasn't even kicked or stepped on, just dazed) He's picked up the next day, another horse left in his wake (this one will be told next). He was gone for two months in training. I visited him every other weekend (it was too far to go more than that). It was while he was gone that I broke my back. So, when he came back from JUST being trained...he sat in a pasture for 5-6 months without so much as being lunged. He was MISERABLE! Finally I get into riding him again though, and he perks up, ready to work. I take several lessons on him and really build my confedence on him. The first day I rode him, it was like he'd JUST got back from training. Sounds like a perfect horse? He was...one problem...He's a WORK horse and me riding him every weekend wasn't enough for him. He'd escape, couldn't hold weight, and just LOOKED sad. So, finally, I knew it was 'his' time. I traded him to a woman who grew up in the percheron show ring, and that's what he became. Under her care and guidance he is a brick house that is 5th in the nation for his breed, age, training, and gender. He pulls carriages, rides english and western, does trail rides, AND has even run barrels, and not ONCE has he escaped or lost weight while with his owner. He's the woman's ONLY gray, and out of all the horses she has, HE is HER best friend. She lets me know this regularly by keeping me updated, even though it's been about 3-4 years.

Now, if you notice I said 'traded' him. 'What for?' you might ask. Well...I traded him for a belgian/quarter horse gelding who was already started and been trail ridden and was advancing to pleasure cantering and had even done a few lessons with a few girls the woman worked with. Her reason for not wanting him? Well for one he wasn't a percheron, for two, he was TINY. Having belgian in him did nothing but cause him to be stockier than the average QH. Well, i took him on and learned rather quickly he just...wasn't great. I found a girl who went to school and showed horses and she'd been part of the 'show' circut since a toddler. She'd successfully trained a few horses and had more experiance to handle his 'stuborness' issues. So, she started to work him. I watched her with him and he was GREAT! Gave her little to NO issues and worked like a champ! Never pulled on the bit, backed without being asked, or refused to go. (luckily he wasn't one to bolt or rear, though he did do small little bucks if asked to do more than walk) Well, even with all this training (months) every time I went to ride him, even under strict instruction from the girl, he showed his rear. He wasn't pleasent to be around, he wasn't easy to ride, and he was just...sour...to ME. He was fine with everyone else, but he wasn't FOR everyone else. So, I put him up for sale or trade. Was aproached by a girl's camp who had a pony who's only issue was he just went too 'fast' for beginners. I was up for that, and told them the issues I had with him, but told them they could come out and look at him. They did. They used my tack, and theirs (I had WAY better tack by this time!) and he did stellar, if a bit on the 'lazy' side, which they were fine with. So, we do the trade. The pony turned out to be too much for me and they bought it back for what I had been asking for Buddy ('my' horse). But...Buddy, now named Pringles, is one of the BEST horses they have at the camp and often 'fought over' by their riders to primp and ride him. lol.


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## Quedeme

Now comes my most epic story yet...Remember a few stories up there I mentioned a horse being 'left' at my place while my percheron was in training? Good, because this is all about her. I was told this mare was 3 years old, well behaved, and ready to be ridden. Oh yes, and she was free. This was still in my "child" phase so I jumped at it! Why was a trainer giving away a free horse? She was part belgian, a horse he didn't want to even deal with and got her as payment for training someone's horse. Made sense to naive little me at the time. Not 10 minutes after they left her there, taking my gelding to training....she broke her lead and ran off. Took me HOURS to catch her, and when I did, she was wet, spooked, and huffing like a fire breathing dragon. She was NOTHING that they told me she was....It took me 3 months to let me take her halter on and off with ease, and about that long to even let me walk up to her without her spooking. She and I had quite the 'trial', but I didn't give up. That 'something' just wouldn't let me. I actually gave up TWICE, tried to sell her TWICE, had buyers TWICE, and I backed down and ended up keeping her. A year of bonding and ground work, even when my back was killing me (because of the arab). Even when she pawed at me so hard I had a hoof shaped bruise on my thigh for a YEAR...I kept her. I didn't know why...I didn't even LIKE her that well...However...2 years later, she is my best friend. She is not only my best friend. She's a whole new horse. She's calm, patient, willing, and can pay attention without being spooked by the clouds. Who made her this way? Answer is...I did. I'm that VERY small percent that was in WELL over my head...but magic came from it. I would NOT suggest it to others, but I'm glad I stuck with her. She is my heart horse now, the one I trust above all others, the one I can safely put 2 year olds on and let idiots ride her just because they want to and know she won't freak out or hurt them. Ok, that's a lie, I'd never put an idiot on her lol. I love her too much. I did all of her training from the ground up. The only times someone else traiend her was her first few rides. I found a woman who was qualified and had 'nothing better' to do (talk about luck! Never again will I find such a wonderful, cheap trainer! lol) After those first few rides, I was on her receiving direction. Between lessons though, I rode her on my own (with someone near by 'just in case'). One story I do have to tell about her though...is she HATES people who 'force' her. Remember the girl I had train up the gelding that wouldn't work for me? Well, I was taking lessons from her one day, Caddy wasn't making a 'perfect' circle, and I didn't want to 'make' her so long as she kept up her trot and went in the direction I wanted her to. Well, this ****ed off the trainer who yelled at me to 'make' her....I got so mad I yelled back and snapped "I'm not the trainer! You are! You want to make her do something, get on and do it yourself!" So...I got off...trainer got on, the first 'round' she got the one spot she didn't want to make 'perfect', trainer tried to force it, and...off went the trainer...and Caddy came trotting right up to me and nuzzled my chest! After that I got back on, and she behaved beautifully. This was also a good few months after her first ride, so while not 'dead broke' she was a ways past 'green'. Oh, and the reason she was so crazy to begin with? Her orriginal owners thought she was "big" enough to break....she wasn't even a year old yet. When they gave her to the trainer, she was a BIG yearling, tramatized, and thus, dangorous. Because he didn't want her, he shoved her in a stall with little attention other than food, water, and cleaning. She was so bad that she would turn her butt and actually kick out at anyone who went into her stall...Oh, and I had her vet checked before I started her 'riding'. It took me 2 years to get her to that point. Guess how old the vet told me she was? Three....I will NEVER trust that man again, and tell anyone I can why they shouldn't either. Granted, he trained my percheron up nice, but seriously...what person gives another person who SAYS they are a total newb a horse he KNOWS to be dangerous?! Next thing you might wonder is how I found out about her history. Well, I hit a 'drama filled' part of my life and had to board her at the place where the trainer used to work. He no longer did (wonder why) and I found out from the barn owner who recognized her, as well as the vet I used to check her over. I still can't believe someone would do that to another person...but alas, I seem to attract these issues. 

I had another mare for about a year. She was broke for trails but was suborn as the day was long...she didn't stay around because when I hit that 'drama patch' she was just too much to pay THAT much to keep, especially when no one wanted to ride her. Now? She lives as a family pet and is ridden by a doting 'daddy' and 4 kids between the ages of 9-14. Not once has she acted out and they ADORE her!

Now for my next adventure! A horse that's been in the pasture for 4 years of his life, untrained, barely handled...but is a total doll. I might be crazy...but...I like being a bit crazy lol.

(on a side note I also regularly rescued horses when I could, gentled them, got them healthy, then gave them to people who I trusted could handle them, never ONCE lying about an issue or quirk that horse might have. I never considered any of them 'mine' however, so won't go into detail about each one lol It was a fun, rewarding journey though, and I have been taught so much by the animals I love, and hope to learn so much more!)

Sorry if this was a long winded post...but I feel I've experienced just about every level of 'hero' out there, with the ups AND the downs...It doesn't always work, and that's when we need to step back and re-evaluate...but...sometimes..just sometimes...it works...Anyway, I hope someone can gain something from this huge post lol. 

Wishing all the best!

(broken into two posts because of epic length x.x sorry again!)


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## xxBarry Godden

Quedeme

Well Lady, you are persistent that's for sure. And every thing seems to have come out clean in the wash. 

To get back on after breaking your back takes a lot of guts - well done.

Enjoy your horse - you have earned it.


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## apachewhitesox

Haha that might have been long but you had quite a few. Sounds like you did a good job with your mare. Oh and good on you for getting on again after breaking your back!!


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## Quedeme

Thanks!

And I enjoy all horses ^_^


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## Seifur

Amen! I am in this situation myself right now. I decided that I wanted to take Seifur with me to college for the winter. I had been riding him a bit over the summer and he had behaved pretty nicely, because of that I had no idea why my parents were so happy to "get rid of him", they were eager to let me take him away with me.
So, I take him away with me and think I am going to have a wonderful time riding and training him. Boy was I wrong... The horse is totally crazy, he bites, kicks, rears and you name it! He suddenly turned into a monster. I had the vet check him out for any pain and turns out he did have to have his teeth floated but other than that he was healthy and fine. He has his teeth floated and after that I thought he would get better.. But he only got worse if anything. He flips out if I am doing something as simple as leading him. I have completely given up on him and really want to sell him to someone who can use him and train him properly, I am not even sure if my parents will let me sell him..

I feel like crying right now. I have no idea why my parents didn't warn me about him. I had to hear it from my sister how crazy he really is. I feel like my parents hate me, they gave away my favorite mare without telling me and then force me to take care of this crazy gelding, they didn't wanna let me take any other horse with me...
Anyways, I'm done ranting. Sorry for the essay!


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## Hollaaaay

I went through this when I bought my gelding. 
Could not do a thing with him, couldn't ctach, tie or tack him up. 
Riding was out of the question, prancing, napping EVERYTHING.
But after THREE MONTHS of "sticking with it" I am on the way to making an excellent school master. He still has his quirks, but i am SO glad i stuck it out.


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## Hlover

spence said:


> that's what REALLY chaps my butt about the shutting down of kill houses in the states. there ARE some horses out there that are just plain truly useless. if they had not shut them down, then those who are in over their heads and know it would have an out that would be able to even come out with a buck or two in hand instead of absolutely nothing.


Thats horrible! 
I'm sorry but this is a horrible thing for a horse lover to say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hlover

Love the post!
I myself have been in over my head 2 out of the 4 I have ever owned the first was a "surprise present" for my 6th bday...she dropped me on my butt and head a few too many times and we had to give her to a new home she's a lawn ornament now but doesn't mind...then my second horse was the dream not dangerous , did evverything I wanted. All I could have asked for to help me learn all the joys of horse ownership...3rd horse another mistake she was a beauty but huge and untrained and I can't for the life of me remember wut possessed us to buy her. My mom figured she could handle her...only prosblem was my mom had no time for her and I tried my best. I don't think I ruined her. She more like ruined my ego lol. She was the kind of horse that was dangerous to others...and an escape artist might I add. But I remember coming home most days crying ...(thank god I still had my 2nd horse!) and eventually we sold her to a good friend but I dot think she's being used much which is a shame because the right person could make an amaasaazing horse out of her...and my 4th I just go And hope she's the right horse! Shes a 15,3hh TB mare that needs some refining but has the personality and the groud manners that I want and I have an actual experienced trainer helping me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag

A large part of the problem of parting with a horse, expecially for many women, is that if it goes to auction the kill buyer will get it. That isn't necessarily so. At these auctions horses are bid upon by the pound, not it's temperment. The kill buyers need to make a profit so will bid only so much per pound, depending on the market and it's been as low as 15c lb. There are often side deals that take place at auctions and the horse doesn't even go into the sale. Auctions are attended by everyone, people looking for horses to ride, horses or ponies for their kids. An auction means going to one place and seeing many horses rather than spending weeks driving from place to place looking at one horse. For sellers, this means a lot of potential buyers at one place.


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## thesilverspear

Nice post.

At the barn I just moved from, I have spent the last seven or eight months watching the unfolding drama of a family who had bought their first pony for their son. Unfortunately, the pony is three years old, greenbroke and sparky, and they're clueless. It was quite sad, as they are a sweet family, but in over their heads with a pushy three year old who needs experienced handling. Among other things, the mare got into the regular habit of bucking the kid off in the canter and he had become nervous about riding and being around her. I lunged him on my trained-to-the-nines schoolmaster to try to get his confidence back, which sort of worked, but while he was handling my horse, grooming and tacking her up, you could see in his whole body language and the way he was around horses where all the problems with the youngster came from. Anyway, after his ride on my mare, he decided he liked horses again and started taking more lessons from the barn owner on his pony, who dutifully stuck with her habit of bucking him off at the canter. 

I'm not "the trainer," or "a trainer," although I have trained horses and riders, but in this instance I was just another lowly livery who could only stand back, watching the trainwreck and offering the odd (and usually ignored) suggestions. After much consideration, I decided not to step in more than that, as the owner of the stable had become their trainer and it's her stable. In any case, they weren't making much progress in improving their relations with the mare and the son completely lost interest and didn't want anything to do with horses. So the wee mare is up for sale. 

It's sad and frustrating to watch these things. They were so enthusiastic about horses and had bought the young mare on the grounds that horse and kid could "grow up together." Then found out the hard way that this doesn't really work.


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## faye

well said JDI

Just have to add that young horse and young rider only ever works if mother/father is incredibly experianced and the pony is a enuine little pony.

We got in over our heads when we bought a horse from beeston that turned out to be drugged to its eyeballs and totaly dangerous when not sedated. Mum is very very experianced having worked with, ridden and schooled some very very well known horses. However even she sent this horse to a proffessional (we tried for a while to sort it but admitted defeat), proffessional had it all of one week and then turned round and advised us the horse was going to kill someone. We had the horse shot that afternoon. Kinder for the horse in the long run and better for our conciences.


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## ChingazMyBoy

Excellent post Allie.

From personal experience I know that the young horse/young rider can in fact work, once the rider admits they are in over their head and have a coach that is willing to help them re-train themselves and their horse. I am sure many of you have read my older posts about my horse "Chinga" and how I had many struggles with him and I, yet I would not admit to being in over my head. Problem horses need lots of TLC but they also need to be shown who their leader is and need to be shown that respect is a must.

It takes a lot to admit you need help and too those who do - I commend you.


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## Clevelande

I really enjoyed this post! I'm at this spot right now and this made me think twice. The good thing is, I'm in no hurry to buy the horse right away; I have plenty of time to work with him. I also have a trainer at my barn, and have a copious amount of lessons paid for. 

So with the time and resources available, what would you say? Keep on, or walk away? A outline of the problems we've been having I posted here : http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/good-horse-bad-owners-re-training-85254/

I would really appreciate any ideas or suggestions  Thank you and I'll keep this post up anytime I think to buy him on do something ridiculously out of my league.


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## smrobs

Oh, Allie, I wish there was some way to beam this into every potential horse owners head before they go out to look.


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## AllThePrettyHorses

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> My family has always had a rule of thumb for us growing up as kids, "Until you are 12, you aren't allowed to own a horse younger than you are"


I like this. I think I'm going to apply this when (and if) I ever have kids.


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## SocietyJoe

i am 15years old, and just a year ago i found an off the track thoroughbred who did everything wrong. his canter was unbalanced, he cat leaped over every jump and had never come across flexing, bending, and going on the bit. Yes, he does buck, and had once bolted and reared. 

truth is after a year he HAS improved; and i admit he was alot of horse, and sometimes he was alittle hard to handle; but my ego had gotten in the way, and i wouldnt quit, i wouldnt let him get the better of me. 

since im only 15, I dont have enough money to get a trainer, or an instructor. I only have enough money to pay for agistment and mum pays for the rest, like feed and vet bills and my equipment. i had no idea what i was getting into, all i wanted was to ride, compete and most of all win! ha

'Joe' has improved, since I have had him, he has learned to frame, and ride on the bit, has competed in 4jumping competitons placing 2nd and 4th in two this year. He doesnt bolt anymore, and only reared when a lady at my the riding training squad(BEATS) put a standing martingale on him. He is a fat big thoroughbred now and has learned some manners, and now I feel like my riding has improved. 

So sometimes if you have enough confidence you can keep the horse that is to much horse, all horses deserve a second chance.


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## Ace80908

Hi All, 
Last year I gave up on the big, crazy beautiful 6 year old paint gelding I had. I was very successful in the ring, and the judges loved him, so I kept him longer than I should have. I am a good rider, so his fits and bucks and jumps were a source of irritation more than a danger. Eventually though, his random spooks and fits were making me really question whether I wanted to ride anymore, it was no longer fun. Trying to fix the holes were all consuming as I questioned why he continued his behavior and what I was doing wrong. Trainers gave advice that he promptly proved not effective.!He would go a month with perfect behavior and then WHAM! - up in the air he'd go for no apparent reason. Checked and double checked teeth, back, legs, saddle - nothing wrong. After one particularly violent buck that sent my accomplished 18 year old daughter, Kellie, into the dirt with enough force that she had road rash on her side, hip, and arm - I had it. Sold him honestly on craigslist and showed videos of his fits to serious buyers. His good looks and show record got him sold the next week. 

I took the money, bought a well-bred unstarted three year old black and white APHA gelding by A Tru Rolex, Scooby, and have never looked back. Preventing the holes in training is so much easier than trying to get rid of them... I enjoy riding again, enjoy going to the barn and puttering around - Kellie has taken Scooby over and will finish out her last year of 4H on him. I enjoy having a happy gelding who enjoys his lessons and watching him grow has been such a fun experience I just bought another very well bred three year old - this one a filly by The Big Gun - she's been riding for a week now and we are just beginning a new adventure.


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## Gallop On

I have never owned a horse and when I seen the Arab I knew he was way, way over my head but... "I let my heart control my actions" or so to speak. So I bought him and brought him home and he was a horid bucking rearing kicking bolting biting thing of a horse and I came away from him crying many nights... When he finally bucked me off it was my last straw. Though everyone in my family was starting to lose hope in my nothingness of knowledge I refused to sell him... My ego got in my way and I was not going to give up and be a quiter so... I didnt give up and now, my rescued Arab is the best horse in the world.  I didnt have enough money for a trainer or anything so Google was my best fried during those long days  Lol she has all the answers about horses ;D I am glad I didnt let him go... I dont know what I would have done without him. But a horse who was any more worse than he was would have been over my head and I would of had to give up... My Arab was WILD. Not "Not very well trained" But way wild  Sometimes, followr your heart and do what you think is right


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## Crossover

MacabreMikolaj said:


> ^
> 
> And agreed with whoever mentioned the insanity behind teenage kids professing undying love to a horse that tries to maim them daily. You need to learn **** fast that your horse doesn't know what "love" is and nickering for you at the fence does not mean he's going to think twice about piling you into a wall and going after you with his teeth if he doesn't feel like being ridden. Get rid of him and get something worth your time and effort - quit foolin' yourself into thinking a horse that delibrately tries to hurt humans is worth saving.


100% truth. I worked on a young girl for ages to sell her insane horse before it killed her. She tried really hard but the horse was way beyond her. She did finally sell the horse and now owns a nice sane horse that she enjoys riding. 
When I was younger I had a friend who owned an old quiet broke do everything appy mare. The mare passed away and mom decided the girl needed a nice 2yr old Morgan show filly..... guess who's not riding horses anymore.

Like I tell people... you don't get along with every person you meet... why insist that every horse you meet is going to be your best friend. 

Some horses you bond with... like me and my arab mare. Some you tolerate and they tolerate you... like one of my appy mares. And for some the feeling is mutual :evil:... and those ones you sell. Doesn't make them bad horses... just not right for you.


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## Gallop On

Crossover said:


> 100% truth. I worked on a young girl for ages to sell her insane horse before it killed her. She tried really hard but the horse was way beyond her. She did finally sell the horse and now owns a nice sane horse that she enjoys riding.
> When I was younger I had a friend who owned an old quiet broke do everything appy mare. The mare passed away and mom decided the girl needed a nice 2yr old Morgan show filly..... guess who's not riding horses anymore.
> 
> Like I tell people... you don't get along with every person you meet... why insist that every horse you meet is going to be your best friend.
> 
> Some horses you bond with... like me and my arab mare. Some you tolerate and they tolerate you... like one of my appy mares. And for some the feeling is mutual :evil:... and those ones you sell. Doesn't make them bad horses... just not right for you.


Agreed ^ me and my Arab also have a great bond, but not so much with my Appy... Same thing as you xD


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## bee222

FANTASTIC POSTS!!!

I got my first horse last December and was not able to work him over the winter as no place to ride (5 feet snow on ground). He was a rescue and great when I tried him before getting him. He has since thrown me once when he threw out his shoulder, began backing up really fast, and started spinning after that. He did not do this as a result of a spook since he is only scared of cows and very curious about EVERYTHING else. He is an Arab/Quarter mix.
So, since being tossed (not injured) I have also had to emergency dismount when he bolted after doing his jig. 

OK--- now the up side to my horse
he does NOT
buck, rear, bite, kick
he IS
great on cross ties, with dentist, farrier, vet, on ground and has even touched noses with a cow, good with dogs and cat, generally easy to catch

So, that said, I have really lost my confidence, so this is what I am doing.
I have started taking lessons on a very sane horse with a trainer who comes highly recommended. I will be moving him to her barn and she will start working with him and continue with me in lessons (on the sane horse). I will be attending the training that she is giving him. They have an indoor arena, outdoor riding area and round pen there. 

The trainer I am working with thinks there is hope and potential with him. Everyone who has had real horse experience says he is very smart (probably too much). The foster mom said he did not misbehave at her barn and they had him quite a while as he was injured (by a pot belly pig).

I have decided to give him a year and throw all sorts of $$$ at him that I don't really have, but.....

Am I doing the right things?

Bee


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## Crossover

bee222 said:


> FANTASTIC POSTS!!!
> 
> So, that said, I have really lost my confidence, so this is what I am doing.
> I have started taking lessons on a very sane horse with a trainer who comes highly recommended. I will be moving him to her barn and she will start working with him and continue with me in lessons (on the sane horse). I will be attending the training that she is giving him. They have an indoor arena, outdoor riding area and round pen there.
> 
> The trainer I am working with thinks there is hope and potential with him. Everyone who has had real horse experience says he is very smart (probably too much). The foster mom said he did not misbehave at her barn and they had him quite a while as he was injured (by a pot belly pig).
> 
> I have decided to give him a year and throw all sorts of $$$ at him that I don't really have, but.....
> 
> Am I doing the right things?
> 
> Bee


There is very few horses who don't have hope and potential. The question is does this horse and you have a future together. Foster mom may of not had any problems because she may not have asked him to do anything. 
Other then these two incidences do you feel you have a true bond with your horse? Do you look forward to seeing him, for his sake, not just because he's your horse. The best question I feel you could ask yourself.... am I willing to keep this horse for the rest of his life even though I can't ride him. This is not to say you won't but if it were to come to that. If you find you can part with him with minimal sadness I say find him a good home. As I said in a previous post, he's not a bad horse, he just may not be the horse for you. 

As you've lost confidence riding this horse and refer to the one your taking lessons on as a sane horse... I'd have to lean towards you already working yourself up to letting go. If you just need reassurance that your not a bad person... here you go... your not a bad person for giving up a horse that you don't feel comfortable with riding.


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## pintophile

MacabreMikolaj said:


> And agreed with whoever mentioned the insanity behind teenage kids professing undying love to a horse that tries to maim them daily. You need to learn **** fast that your horse doesn't know what "love" is and nickering for you at the fence does not mean he's going to think twice about piling you into a wall and going after you with his teeth if he doesn't feel like being ridden. Get rid of him and get something worth your time and effort - quit foolin' yourself into thinking a horse that delibrately tries to hurt humans is worth saving.


You have no idea how much I agree. It makes me die a little inside every time I see a comment on Youtube responding to really good horse videos saying: "U have such a good bond with ur horse! I <3 my pony but I could never do that! I have to always be alert in case he throws me into a fence." :-x Makes me want to smash my head against a wall. A "bond" has absolutely nothing to do with good horsemanship.


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## SidMit

*Sad, but I know it was a good thing.*

I have sold my mare. She is great on the trails, but when my house deal fell through I have had to board her. If she enjoyed the arena this would be fine, but she hated it and I couldn't force her any more. Plus she is greener then my ability. So after landing on my butt yet again after asking for a canter, I decided to sell her to a trail only home. I should say here that she would canter without bucking on the trail or on the beach. I had sent her to a reputable trainer for 30 days and she did great, never threw a buck. Then I get her back, ask her for a canter and she bucked me off again. So I know now that it is me. I have been in two car accident since Aug 2010, I just can't get bucked off anymore. So I guess I am done playing the hero, but when they gave me the deposit check, just as my three year old walked up to Rose and gave her some loves, I have to say I lost it. So I am sad, but I look forward to finding a horse who will be ok in both an arena and out on the trail. Oh to be young again.....


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## wyominggrandma

But you will find the horse to fit you doing what you want and you will enjoy riding again. 
And as you get older,it hurts too much to get bucked off. Just not worth it.


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## Hunter65

bee222 said:


> FANTASTIC POSTS!!!
> 
> I got my first horse last December and was not able to work him over the winter as no place to ride (5 feet snow on ground). He was a rescue and great when I tried him before getting him. He has since thrown me once when he threw out his shoulder, began backing up really fast, and started spinning after that. He did not do this as a result of a spook since he is only scared of cows and very curious about EVERYTHING else. He is an Arab/Quarter mix.
> So, since being tossed (not injured) I have also had to emergency dismount when he bolted after doing his jig.
> 
> OK--- now the up side to my horse
> he does NOT
> buck, rear, bite, kick
> he IS
> great on cross ties, with dentist, farrier, vet, on ground and has even touched noses with a cow, good with dogs and cat, generally easy to catch
> 
> So, that said, I have really lost my confidence, so this is what I am doing.
> I have started taking lessons on a very sane horse with a trainer who comes highly recommended. I will be moving him to her barn and she will start working with him and continue with me in lessons (on the sane horse). I will be attending the training that she is giving him. They have an indoor arena, outdoor riding area and round pen there.
> 
> The trainer I am working with thinks there is hope and potential with him. Everyone who has had real horse experience says he is very smart (probably too much). The foster mom said he did not misbehave at her barn and they had him quite a while as he was injured (by a pot belly pig).
> 
> I have decided to give him a year and throw all sorts of $$$ at him that I don't really have, but.....
> 
> Am I doing the right things?
> 
> Bee



You sound just like me and Hunter. I had totally lost my confidence and almost sold him. My trainer worked with him and then with both of us and now I am no longer afraid to ride him. I really had to force myself to do it but it paid off. Good luck to you!


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## Sapphire

I experienced this myself with my first pony, and am seeing it now again with people I know who have just bought their first horse.

I'm one of the many people who, when buying a first pony, went to a dealer and bought the first thing I rode. She was lovely when I went to look at her, but a week after I took her home she started to show her true colours. First, she went through a bucking phase, when I eventually got through that, she began napping on hacks to the point where I just didn't bother anymore because I couldn't get her to go anywhere. She seemed to be schooling and jumping reasonably well, until I began to go out to shows and she refused every fence that was put in front of her. I tried hard with her, but anytime I thought I had overcome the problem, something happened that put us right back where we started. I got another pony on loan for a couple of months to build up my confidence and take a break from her, with the hope that when I started riding her again I could turn things around but to no avail. So a year and a half after buying, I gave in and realised it was time to get a new horse. However, the person who bought her off us ended up shipping her off to England to a sale because she had the same problems with her that I did - probably my fault, for letting her get away with it - and she couldn't sell her privately. 

And now I'm watching history repeat itself with a neighbour who had bought a pony for her two daughters, who haven't even been taking lessons for a whole year yet. They've got a five year old, and he's a fantastic pony but not for a beginner. He's got an amazing jump, I've jumped him myself and he's literally point and go. But after trotting round in circles with beginner riders for so long, he's now getting fed up and has started the usual play-up tricks; when they ask him to circle he runs off in the other direction, throws his head down as if to buck before going into canter, randomly stops and spins round when going up the side of the arena. When I get on him, I can sort him out in minutes and have him going fine but the two girls - both younger than 12 - haven't got the confidence or experience. Being so young, I'm worried he's going to get a lot of bad habits and be ruined. His jumping talent is wasted as well, because he has the potential to go far. The owners are the determined type though, and seem to be set on persevering until they get him through. If they manage, he'll be fantastic for the girls when they start jumping, but if they don't it's going to be a case of 5* pony ruined.


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## mustangrider

This was a great post! I'm new to the forum so kind of feeling my way here...A lot of the posts were great, but I'm confused about "Bump it up" ?? 
Also, I saw a post about the slaughter issue...that definately needs to be a separate thread, because I'm sure there are a lot of people needing to discuss that. (Myself included...) Does anyone know if there is a thread about this issue?
And lastly, I must say "Thanks" to JDI, I'm a long time horsewoman, and even I needed the reminder that some horses (even when I'm attached) may need to move on. And sometimes it's not even about being in over your head. In my case, it's about the horse needing something more to do than what I'm giving him. It's hard...but for him it will be a good thing. So thanks...


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## smrobs

^^The phrase "bump it up" refers to posting a new post on a thread so that it will show up at the top of the 'new posts' page.

If you are interested in reading about the views of the slaughter issue, it may be better for you to do a search for older threads or browse the 'horse protection' section. It has come up several times and usually ends in a very heated debate that degrades to the point of the thread being locked. Slaughter is one of those things that is very controversial and most people feel very strongly about it, one way or the other.


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## 3dayMaddie

Great Post! Thank you. 

I just read   How Good Riders Get Good: Daily Choices That Lead to Success in Any Equestrian Sport by Denny Emerson and this is one his main topics. The horse you choose if the most important piece of the puzzle. Great book on how to make appropriate choices in your horsie life (and life in general for that matter.)  I bought it to support the True Prospect Farm barn fire. The author is donating 50% of his profits until December I believe. It was a quick read. 2 days.


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## blue eyed pony

Might I just say, regarding getting rid of your 'soul mate' - the BEST thing that EVER happened for my riding was losing my bolter. He was a bolter because I made him that way through my own lack of experience. I got over my head, gave him to Mum (who fixed him) and when he was ready for me and I was ready for him we started to work together again. But I was struggling with a green horse that I didn't know how to train, that just wasn't going to be ready to show any time soon, and I wanted to show (still do, but I'm not going to until my coach says I'm ready).

Now, I have a horse that HAS the training. He's a challenging sort (being an anglo arab with a history of abuse and neglect - I got him from the lady who rescued him) but he knows what he's doing and so I can learn and start showing as soon as I have the confidence again, instead of having to train/re-train my horse to do it. My anglo is also making me a much better rider than I ever was before, because if you ask wrong, he doesn't respond.

Yes, Monty's the best thing that EVER happened for my riding. Monty's also the catalyst that made me pull my socks up and get a new coach, so although we've had our difficulties, we'll get there. And had I not lost my bolting idiot, I wouldn't have got my gorgeous anglo arab, and I wouldn't be anywhere near ready for a foal. Without my amazing support network, I still wouldn't be anywhere near ready, but I have multiple extremely experienced horse people RIGHT behind me supporting my decision, and will be organising weekly lessons with a groundwork coach who can guide me with my girl's training right from the day she gets here. Groundwork lessons which my extremely experienced mother (who has worked at multiple thoroughbred studs doing yearling prep) will be watching, and which she will be reminding me of if I do something not-quite-right. My mother will be watching me every time I handle my girl, so I definitely have a coach hanging over my shoulder every step of the way (she used to run riding lessons for kids on the 12.1hh welshie we had, but when I outgrew him, and we sold him, we decided not to get a bigger pony. ponies are a pain to manage!)


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## heartprints62

Someone once told me that a horse dominant over the owner is like a rabid dog. It takes a while to set in but once infected, it is only a matter of time before you are attacked and possibly killed. 
That image has saved my butt a couple of times. I wish every potential horse owner was made to read this post.


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## nkieffer61

What if you are "over horsed" because your horse has gone blind? My 12 year old boy was a great walking horse, though I only had him for 6 weeks before he got sick, after a month of vet visits, his sight was gone. Since that time he became "spooky" and landed me in the hospital from a hoof in the torso. (luckily it was just a severe bruise, and it was not a kick, but when he turned to run I was in the way!) Now he drops to a roll every time I ride him and I only ride for up to 30 min!! What option do I have, wholesale? As stupid as this may sound, I believe in him and at 50 any injury could be BAD! I’m becoming spooked also and I know that’s NOT a good thing for either of us. I am a novice rider although I have ridden on and off my entire life. This challenge has to be one of the hardest, both in the option of keeping him in hopes he will settle down and at least give me the pleasure of riding him again, and the unspeakable other “option”. What am I to do?


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## JustDressageIt

In my opinion, you may want to look at finding a trainer to help you work through your issues. A blind horse is still a horse that can be trained, the world is just a bit different for him now. Rolling under saddle is a no-no. Are you able to feel when he's about to go down? If so, get after his hiney! 
His issues may stem from him going blind, but they are still training issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nkieffer61

I could feel it the 1st time as he has always "asked" by pawing the ground and then dropped, the second time I was waiting for the signs, pawing, shaking back legs...but nothing! He dropped to roll MID WALK. I didn't even have time to get my feet out. I did however get back on the 2nd time. (the first he sent me home crying and with a bruised pride) Next time I will be ready!! I have all the plans to stop him...we shall see!!


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## JustDressageIt

If you don't feel confident dealing with the horse on your own - you said it yourself, you're overhorsed - it's time for a trainer to come and work with the both of you.


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## Cruising

totally agree! two years ago my mum bought me a lovely grade c showjumper as a first horse, and for a while he behaved perfectly, but then when he got fittened up, he tried to kill me. hahaha. he kicked me in the small of my back, bit me all the time and one night bucked me off headfirst through a wooden fence, leaving me concussed with severe muscle damage to my right hip. I still tried after that, purely for his ability to jump, knowing he could take me far, but it took one more psycho fit from him that really pushed my mum to sell him. Both my mum and my yard owner refused to let me sell him, even though I knew he was far too much for me right from the beginning, saying I wouldn't get another pony if he didn't work for me. When my yard owner ended up in the A&E as well as me after riding him, my mum finally bit her lip and sold him, and now he is happily jumping around registered 1.20m tracks, and I am jumping round 80cm tracks and loving it! It turns out Cruise (Cruising bloodlines, who in fact was a mental case himself) was a rig, which explains some of his behavioural issues, I'm so glad I finally won my mum over to sell him, although its a shame it took two hospital visits to convince her in the end! I wish I had read this article before, it would have helped me and my mum a lot, so thank you for writing it!


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## jody111

wow great post JDI - I read the first umm 5 pages then skipped to the end so may have missed some points

I get frustrated reading the posts of people either obviously over horsed... or people that have brought good horses but then they have become "bad" horses.... (No fault of their own just they dont know)

One thing you cant beat is a GOOD trainer! My trainer has been amazing with me and my young greenbroke horse.... I have learnt SO much - but you need the horse there to start with... (Which I have)

Awesome post JDI so well writtn


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## jumpingrules92

The original post makes me feel a LOT better about selling my horse because I was WAY overmatched. 

Taking some lessons and getting some more confidence and going to try to get something more my level. 

Makes me feel better though!  Thanks.


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## Eclipse295

*This thread reminded me of an accedent that recently happened at a local pleasure show, the horse was spooked by a cart and bucked across the arena, then the horse reared up and flipped over on the rider, the the horse tried to get up and fell on her again, she suffered a double broken pelvis, broken collar bone, and a bunch of other injuries, they addressed that at my 4-H workout last week if you get into a situation that is out of control and you can't stop it, get off, don't try to ride it out and be a hero, this girl had lots of time to bail but she tried to ride it out, No I am not blaming her for what happen, stuff happens and there are times when we can't help it, but if you can GET OFF if you can't control or stop it. *


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## telly

very good post I agree with getting a good trainer, I owe so much to mine for all she has done with me and my horse. When I was younger and fearless I used to have no problem getting on and just going sometimes as fast as we could, I look back now and wonder how the heck I ever did that, but then again I did a lot of stupid things when I was young and thank god for the properly trained horses we rode then. I have never had a fear of horses until I bought one and started working with him every day, first off my horse has no buck, no bite, doesn't rear or kick and i consider myself very lucky to have purchased a decent first horse, not!!! I truly believe luck has nothing to do with it, I believe that he was properly broke by a good trainer and that his calmness has made him a not bad horse for even a beginner like me but I know without my trainer ( and I dont like to use the word lessons because she does way more than that) we would be lost. When i got him i knew he had only had a couple months training so looking back now i think the guy who originaly broke him and trained did a good job, but i can tell you it still ain't good enough he can outsmart me whenever he wants so he is going for more and when he gets back I will be too. I have put a lot of money, time and resources into this guy already and i am going to spend a lot more over at least the next couple of years until i feel 100% comfortable and safe, money is not a object when i am doing something i love so much but i am glad i waited till i could afford to do it right and safely. I am thinking in my first year I will have at least ten thousand or more into us, what I am trying to say is to really consider everything when your buying a horse you can't just buy horses because they are pretty or cute and dont buy whatever you do thinking that you can train it yourself if you can't, sure you can teach the horse some stuff but you are dealing with your life. I like to think the training part is best left to proffesionals, i mean i am not going to build a house if I can't use a measuring tape right? same thing. Anyways thx for the good read tonight I wish I would have read it six months ago and I just want to add that almost anything that has happened with my guy I take 100% responsibility for nothing has been his fault, he looks to me for guidance I am his leader and I have to behave like a leader when I am around him or riding him and even though I am not the best I will do my best, and so far that's all he has asked of me.


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## corporate pride

i thought i'd share my experience and how i learnt from it.
being a nieve 19 year old after 2 months of riding lessons, an oppotunity to own my first horse arrived, a 16.2 1/2hh mare 1/4 tb 3/4 wb, ?? years old as she was never branded. at first i was scared of her, she had the worst ground manners and was pushy and impaitent. i taught her ground manners and paitence from just think how i want her to act and i did it. 6 months later, this green horse started bucking, rearing, stopping on trails, running sideways out of the arena and backing when asked to go forward. i decided she diserved better then me. i sold her to an experienced eventing home.
6 months later i bought another horse, 15hh 7yo TB, i was told she would be perfect for pony clubs and beginners. the owner wouldn't ride her, she took off on me and had a little hissy fit, but i bought her anyways think she was testing me out. she reared and spun til 'd come off, buck continually, run backwards into fences, run me at trees, i couldn't take her out. i owned her for 11 months, i had her that long because i thought i gave up on Elly too soon. sold her and then bought ozzie on the same day. i still own ozzie

then last january (4 1/2 years on) i got offered a free horse, i was looking for my next eventer. i looked at Marco, 16.2hh TB 5yo off the track a few months ago. he was nice, rode away from other horses from property on the road no drama, jumped, rode on buckle in walk trot canter. had the "i will try" attitude. i took him home, he was under weight so i feed him up and he stacked on weight, took him out to a xc and show jump training back, was an angel! the weight increased and the real him started to show, he started pawing, kicking out at me in the paddock and bucking. i got the kicking out thing under control with rules at dinner time, once he was fat i stopped hard feeding and put him on rolls. then i started again in april, he was back to square one. he also got serperation anxiety. so i started again. then i took him out to a riding club. before summer (NOV - FEB) i took him to jumping lessons off property nd he was ok but bucking. so back to riding club in april, he was ok but bucking over jumps, then on one he got me off, i landed on my feet, then went down on my knees, he lined me up and double barrelled me in the face! less then 2 weeks later after advertising very honestly the old owner took him back, he's now with a lady that does natural horsemanship stuff and is fully informed of his issues. 
6 months on, i got a new horse (in april) and am enjoying him! 8yo TB 16.1hh his name is Barney and we are AWESOME!!!!


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## horseluver1

I just read a few of these posts about the PROBLEM horse and I just bought a mare that is a problem.She has had many owners, and ended up at a sale auction a few times and now I know I dont have what it takes to 'fix' her.she is a big mess. Bites at everyone and twirls her butt around to kick. rears while apllying the halter....She was told to the previous owners that she is rideable and kid broke. and I have seen pics, but I dont know what to do with her .I know she is drop dead gorgeous and nice bloodlines.but I dont want to give up and would not try and mess with her as I am not that NO IT ALL in the round pen .Does anyone think I might be able to get a real trainer by talkin to a vet>?and letting him know all her faults>?Im really wanting her to be a good saddle horse but she is 8 years old and I think she was beat all along the way or just sold if soneone couldnt control her......any comments>? HELP me with a few solutions, should I get rid of her since I just bought her or give her a chance>?Her name is Magic but I call her Heavens magic...she is beautiful and I think I dont want to give up!!


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## suzhoney

I got thrown from my horse day before yesterday. Concussion with an ankle sprain....had to keep me overnight in the hospital for observation. Now I bought Cisco two years ago, he's a 16 year old quarter horse morgan. He's always been very pushy and disrespectful on the ground but always been very good under saddle...never a bad incident at all ...very sound.
Last week we were riding the road and he spooked and threw me but stayed by my side til I got back on him. This time, we were just quietly walking on the road and out of nowhere he started bucking and rearing. I held on for awhile but finally flew off. My girlfriends tell me he kept doing the same thing even after I was off. I don't know what got into him. The rest of the horses were fine, no spook. I just can't figure it out if it's just a fluke that it happened twice in a row or not a coincedence at all. What do you think?


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## tlkng1

I went through this but it was a gradual downgrade. When I first purchased the horse everything was great. As time went on, however, little things popped up..more fence refusals, more frequent and severe, as in leaving me on the opposite side of the ring, type shying, a rear or two when especially spooked. The horse was a dream on the ground but as soon as I got on his back......

I was jumping him over a crossrail and it was a textbook jump into, over and out, yet, the horse planted his feet two strides on and just tossed me..I ended up with a broken arm and 6 months of the loss of use of my hand due to nerve damage from the required surgery. He was checked and had no saddle fitting issues, back issues, lameness etc.

I went another 18 months with this horse but my nerves and lack of confidence and trust in him was telling and it got to the point that if I tried to get anything more than a trot out of him he would buck me off. I finally gave in and gave him up and got another horse who gave me back my riding confidence though my jumping confidence is still low even though the new horse was very good at taking care of me over fences. Sadly I lost that horse a few months back but he was the one that kept me from giving up on riding completely.

I have ridden many problem horses and for years was the one my instructors would put on the new horses or problem horses. As was remarked here, it was a very profound sense of failure and one I still struggle with even nearly 4 years later.


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## suzhoney

I am 52 years old and don't bounce anymore! I absolutely loved your post, Justdressagit! My quarter horse/Morgan gelding has become too much for me. I have been in a quandary as to what to do but your post has really helped with my decision. I'm not going to play the hero, I will find a good home for him and find a horse again that I can trust and will build my confidence up again. Thanks for your advice!


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## SunnysMum

I was in this exact situation a few months ago, very recently. The horse (yes, the love of my life, imagine that.. haha) kicked me in the head by accident. i was bent over, looking at a cut on the inside of his left hind, and something spooked him, causing him to jump and kick me.. this sent my parents over the edge, immediately putting him up for sale. Yet, because of how far we had come together (trained him to be "the one to beat" in the jumper ring, after two years of hard training) I felt like this was an unfair decision for both me and the horse, yet i completely understood where my parents were coming from. I worked extra hard with him in these past months, trying to prove to them how good of a horse he really was, and that he wasnt a dangerous monster. Finally they relented and allowed me to keep him, and it was the best decision for all of us (=


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## rob

i agree with you totally jd it,because so many people think that once you own a horse,you are automatically a trainer.


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## chandra1313

I'm 45 and I held on to a horse for three years. The horse was a good horse but he has a spooking issue. I couldn't get to where I wanted to be with riding because of it either. I wouldn't say it was ego that kept this going but pressure from really good riders who would say this is a great horse do this or do that. I finally have had enough and put him up for sale. I also worry that he will go to someone who can't ride him and will end up as one of those horses that get passed around. 
The one thing I've noticed about owning a horse is experienced riders seem to forget when they started out and knew nothing. Just my opinion


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## Susan Crumrine

What about when you have so much experience, and it took 20 years to learn it, and your body gives out?
It is so hard to turn away from horses, you know you know how to fix.
Because your body just can't take it anymore.


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## FrancesB

"The horse was a good horse but he has a spooking issue. I couldn't get to where I wanted to be with riding because of it either. I wouldn't say it was ego that kept this going but pressure from really good riders who would say this is a great horse do this or do that. I finally have had enough and put him up for sale. I also worry that he will go to someone who can't ride him and will end up as one of those horses that get passed around. "


This is a very difficult place to be in; I was almost there myself. You could try Friendship Training - I have just posted about this on another thread in this forum. It is working wonders for my spooky, stubborn, resistive gelding - I am only in the early stages of the program but already he trusts me much more and is willing and eager to try for me It has not only helped my horse, it has greatly increased my confidence. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Regards
Frances


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## chandra1313

What is friendship training? Very curious ;-)


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## smrobs

Chandra, friendship training has already been discussed on this forum quite a while back....
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/friendship-training-89166/


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## rob

thank you smrobs,


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## trainerunlimited

I rode horses for other people last summer, and generally only ride horses I raise and break myself. I grew to realize how spoiled I had become with my horses very easy obedience and was so burned out at the end of 3 month/15 horses, I went back to riding just mine, which I don't even do as often as I'd like. 

It is amazing what horses with beginner riders will do. They get away with something, then go about their merry way and do whatever they want, with the poor beginners trying to cope with a "beginner friendly" horse! Half the horses I got in the ride were from beginners whose story was always the same - they get the horse, everything is perfect, then the longer they have it, the more problems pop up until they can't ride the horse at all. 

This doesn't really go with the thread of getting a horse above you, but, depending where you are in your riding, some people need to take a few more lessons before jumping right in and getting a horse they have no idea to control. It could lead to a good horse having some not so nice qualities.


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## FrancesB

chandra1313 said:


> What is friendship training? Very curious ;-)


Hi Chandra,

Friendship Training is a positive reinforcement program which helps develop a deep, trusting relationship between horse and human. It is quite different to most types of horse training where you use pressure and release to get the horse to do something; in FT you train by rewarding the positive behaviours. It is also very holistic as the aim is to provide the horse with a social and physical environment that will maximise their physical and mental health.

I am only in the early stages of it with my gelding, but it has made a huge difference to his willingnes to try, and to my confidence.


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## FrancesB

smrobs said:


> Chandra, friendship training has already been discussed on this forum quite a while back....
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/friendship-training-89166/


It was discussed, but it seemed that all the discussion was by people who hadn't done it? I read most of the thread, I may have missed a few of the posts.

I thought it was worth my posting on it because I am actually doing FT and am amazed by the improvement it is making in my horse's attitude. I agree the program looks a bit 'out there' when you first read about it - I was quite sceptical - but wow, seeing is believing. It may not be for everyone, but it surely does work.

Regards
Frances


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## qtrhrsecrazy

Wonderful post!!!


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## missimagine

Okay so i have a question...to keep the new horse or not. About a month ago we bought a horse. She's between 3 and 5 yrs old. From the get go she was head shy but the previous owners had said that she just needs to warm up to you. Aparently the owner before had abused her. She doesn't kick, buck, or bite she is mainly slow. I have done daily exercises with lightly throwing a rope over her body and at the feet and she is completly fine with that BUT when you go to touch her ears she wants to shy away from you again. She's gotten to where she will let me touch her face and ears but i've accidently shocked her twice now and she emedietly goes back to square one. I think a lot of her because she has started to show a personality and be happy about life and she has made a point to want attention when i'm there. I have the time and want to help her be a great horse but do you think she'll ever get over the accident static shock when i pet her? Has anyone had this problem before?


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## rob

missi,if you have the time,then take the time.after the trust and respect is there,this might be a one person horse,but if you really like this horse it will be worth it.


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## telly

Even if she has been abused that doesn't mean she can't learn.. How much experience do you have missimagine? If you can't fix it seek a professional but either way I would never give up on a horse that easy... Try a different approach like working your way up to touching her face, there are so many variables of reason to your problem but I couldn't or wouldn't ever give up on any horse after one month, especially for being a bit headshy... Have her pole checked maybe she's telling you something? But don't give up so easy your next horse will probably not be any different, JMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missimagine

Im not that experienced but i am currently working with a trainor. Im used to horses that want nothing but attention so im a bit out of my cumfort zone. I dont want to give up on her but than you dont want to not be able to help her. 
What is a pole check telly?


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## rob

missi,a poll check means having the area up on top of her head,between her ears vet checked for any damage or cracked or fractured bones.


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## FrancesB

missimagine said:


> From the get go she was head shy .. She's gotten to where she will let me touch her face and ears but i've accidently shocked her twice now and she emedietly goes back to square one. I think a lot of her because she has started to show a personality and be happy about life and she has made a point to want attention when i'm there. I have the time and want to help her be a great horse but do you think she'll ever get over the accident static shock when i pet her?


Hi,

Checking her poll is a great idea. It would also be worth having her checked by a qualified horse dentist to rule out any problem with her teeth - a mare at my local riding school behaved similarly, the dentist found serious problems with her teeth and she changed amazingly within about a week of having them treated.

A month is a very short time for a horse to settle in IMO. If you are committed to her and mean to keep her for life I would recommend looking into Friendship Training - it has made a huge difference to my horse and we are developing a brilliant relationship. It creates a very deep bond between horse and person though, so not fair to either of you to do it if you aren't planning to keep her for life.

Regards
Frances


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## telly

A good equine chiropractor will be able to help with the pole, should be no need for the vet. I would find out the last time her teeth were done as well and if she's due get them done, i have my chiro out routinely, she works wonders.


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## telly

sorry I guess I should spell it correctly lol its poll, just to used too spelling it the other way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## missimagine

Okay thanks! Im glad you brought up a chiropractor because i was wondering if i should have one out because her neck is way stiff. I'll get her teeth checked as well. Thanks!


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## eliduc

It comes down to experience and fit. If it is someone's first horse and they are inexperienced and/or old they should look for something that is well broke and calm natured. If the rider is five feet tall they shouldn't be looking at 17 hand warmbloods. The horse will probably cost more because it already has training invested in it but not as much as sending a green or problem horse to a trainer at $500 a month plus. Another thing to consider is the cost of medical services. My wife broke her wrist a couple of years ago and the bill was $18,000. Her copay was $1500. An inexperienced rider would be well off to take lessons on a school horse first. A prospective horse needs to be ridden more than one time and long enough to really evaluate it and your own skill level. It might be well worth it to pay a trainer or competent person to ride and evaluate the horse. I have only sold one equine because I thought I wouldn't be able to fix it or I didn't want to spend the time and effort and that was a mule so it shouldn't count. I didn't think I would be able to find someone as dumb as me to buy it so I ran it through the auction at Mule Days in Bishop California. I sent another horse I had in training back because it was viscous. It bit, kicked and struck. I never got on it. I have never had a problem with buying a horse for myself because I have always bought a young unbroke horse and trained it myself. However, if I ever had one that didn't feel right I wouldn't have any problem at all selling it. I just bought an unbroke Qtr gelding to replace my horse that died in November. I had time for about two weeks of ground work before the ground got iced up. So far he has been a love; an affectionate puppy dog that follows me around. Nothing much seems to bother him. I'm really getting cabin fever looking out the window at the snow and slush when I want to be working with him. One corner of the arena has bare ground now. If it doesn't snow again it should be dry enough to use on pretty soon. That was a great post.


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## CowgirlHannah

All three of the horses i have had in my life have been free. I have been very lucky to not have any problems with any of them. Not saying anyone should go out and take a free horse because i have seen bad situations before. I am happy i have taken those horses in because if not the first one would be dead from no food and the other two would have been heading to Mexico for slaughter which i couldn't stand there and watch any of them go through that so i was the "hero" those days. I'm still proud to this day for rescuing three horses at some point in my life, but i did always have that feeling about being naughty horses in the back of my head when i took them.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5

Okay, so I've just gone through this in the past couple of days and I'd love some support.
I'd been shareboarding on a gelding for about 3 months now. He had been used for livery only, but had manners issues and needed some work. Thought his only issues were trying to eat on trail and wandering into the bushes. Turns out its also that he bucks and spins when he decides he wants to go home. LOL that was a surprise the first time. So anyway, I figured with some arena time working on bending and listening that I could straighten this out (I have experience with buckers) and then exercises out on trail. Well, it got a little better, but each time we went out alone it was a fight. I could get him to go where I wanted but both of us would end up frustrated. I didn't want to give up on him so I kept going.
But on trail yesterday with my friend I came to the realization that it just wasn't worth it. He's really happy being a livery horse. He's 13 years old and being a trail horse in a string is all he knows. He really didn't want to be the horse that I could take out on trail and work in the arena. I still feel a little guilty, like maybe I just copped out on him. But I'm also trying to be better about knowing my limits. I'm just not as confident working on behavioral issues out on trail as I am in the arena (I grew up doing only arena work and showing) and when I'm out on trail I want a horse that wants to be out as well. I want to have fun. 
So I talked to the owner and she understood completely and I'm trying out another guy who's still got some spunk, but isn't bothered going out by himself. 
So I hope I'm not rambling. I guess I just realized that I want my riding time to be fun as well as challenging, especially since I'm an adult now and riding is really my only down time. 
Anyone else had that guilt even when you knew it was time to move on?


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## eliduc

*Good for you*

There's an old saying that there are too many good horses out there to waste time on one that isn't right. Sometimes we allow pride to interfere with common sense. You made a wise decision. What's that other old saying, "Pride goeth before the fall." Must have been a horse owner.


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## OctoberArabian

Thank you for this <3 I think its about time I stopped trying to play the hero, as you put it, and put it perfectly. Its actually really reassuring to hear someone with this opinion, because people really do feel ashamed for having to sell a horse that's too much for them, especially when they were so excited about buying them in the first place and convinced friends and loved ones that it was a good idea. Its embarrassing when it turns out you were wrong and... it wasn't a good idea. Lol. Definitely what I'm going through right now. Thanks again <3


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## FrancesB

Sounds to me like your horse is afraid of going out without his herd, and doesn't trust you to keep him safe. Perfectly sensible from a horse's point of view. So you can either change what you do (eg ride with a larger group or in areas he feels safe and gradually extend), spend the time developing a deep and trusting relationship with him to the point where he will trust you to go out with just you (eg friendship training) or get another horse. Depends on your objectives, what kind of promises you made the horse, how much time you are willing to spend, etc. If he is just going back to a former happy home that is one thing, if you moving him on means he goes to a sale barn - that's much less ok in my opinion. Sometimes relationships don't work out, sometimes they will if we are willing to put enough in. Depends on your circumstances I guess and the answer might be different for each of us.

 For me, I couldn't face the guilt of walking away and breaking the promise I'd made to my boy, even though in practical terms he was far too much horse for a very inexperienced person. Searching for a solution is what lead me to an answer (the Friendship Training I post about in another thread) and I am delighted with how it is going. But the answer is different for each of us.

I guess guilt reminds us of the consequences of our actions for another being; we have to weigh it up along with everything else in coming to a decision.

Hope it works out well for you both,
Regards
Frances


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## eliduc

*Ha ha*

I wrote about my new horse, "So far he has been a love; an affectionate puppy dog that follows me around. Nothing much seems to bother him. I'm really getting cabin fever looking out the window at the snow and slush when I want to be working with him. One corner of the arena has bare ground now. If it doesn't snow again it should be dry enough to use pretty soon." 

My puppy dog has been in his paddock for a month because of the ice. It finally dried out enough to work with him. First of all he almost ran over me leading him to the arena. I was lollygagging along not paying much attention walking in front of him which is a no no when he blew and bolted, he stopped at the end of the twelve foot long rope and kicked out with both hind feet. When I got to the arena and started to longe him in the only dry corner he was so rank I couldn't believe it. He went about twenty feet and started bucking and kicking like a rodeo bronc. It took me 20 minutes to get him calmed down. The next day it was more of the same only not as bad. The third day he didn't do anything but I could tell he was thinking about it. Then it snowed again, thawed and then froze the water. That was 5 days ago. had him out again today after another five days and he was a rank s.o.b. again. He has probably got paddock fever. The problem is that it's so iced up I can't turn him out. His paddock is 50 feet square but he can't do much but tippy toe around. I can't believe this split personality I am seeing. If he doesn't change after the weather turns good I will have no problem unloading him. 

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tra...tick-when-realize-50485/page14/#ixzz1mgvqTCbQ
​


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5

I shareboarded on him. I didnt own him. Otherwise, of course i would have put more time into him. But he has a perfectly good home and he does very well at his day job of being a livery horse in a large group. Theres no danger for him with me moving on, except maybe less cookies^^ 
I just felt like we werent a good match temperament wise and since there was no danger for him i knew that to continue enjoying riding i needed a xhange.



FrancesB said:


> Sounds to me like your horse is afraid of going out without his herd, and doesn't trust you to keep him safe. Perfectly sensible from a horse's point of view. So you can either change what you do (eg ride with a larger group or in areas he feels safe and gradually extend), spend the time developing a deep and trusting relationship with him to the point where he will trust you to go out with just you (eg friendship training) or get another horse. Depends on your objectives, what kind of promises you made the horse, how much time you are willing to spend, etc. If he is just going back to a former happy home that is one thing, if you moving him on means he goes to a sale barn - that's much less ok in my opinion. Sometimes relationships don't work out, sometimes they will if we are willing to put enough in. Depends on your circumstances I guess and the answer might be different for each of us.
> 
> For me, I couldn't face the guilt of walking away and breaking the promise I'd made to my boy, even though in practical terms he was far too much horse for a very inexperienced person. Searching for a solution is what lead me to an answer (the Friendship Training I post about in another thread) and I am delighted with how it is going. But the answer is different for each of us.
> 
> I guess guilt reminds us of the consequences of our actions for another being; we have to weigh it up along with everything else in coming to a decision.
> 
> Hope it works out well for you both,
> Regards
> Frances


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## blackdieselpony

My first horse was a tolerant draft cross that although had bad training methods he was so patient with me and we learned together. 
The second horse I owned was a APHA that had been given to me. He hurt me bad and had some really bad issues with striking and rearing I owned him for a year and finally came to realize he was too much for me. 
I traded my sencond horse for my current horse. He still has some manner issues but he isn't like the second one I owned.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rob

sounds like you need someone to help you pick out a well mannered laid back gelding before you get hurt real bad.


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## Dunroamin

No truer words have been written by Justdressageit. Maggiestar essentially saying the same thing.. if your not a trainer then don't get a horse that's going to take advantage of you. I know as I ahve been there .. Now I work with a trainer regaining my confidence and trust. .. on a better, well broke, getting well trained horse  I believe *green* +*green* =* black* + *blue*!


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## karebear444

Great thread! I so wish my old friend would read this. She has a mare that is too much for her. She doesn't respect her, she rears, bucks and has many bad habits. I can't for the life of me convince her to sell that horse. I worry that she is going to wind up very hurt or worse all because of her attachment. As a matter of fact she bought a 2nd horse at one point. That horse was so much better suited for her, it wasn't barn sour and didn't have any of those dangerous habits. We actually could go on trail rides together without a fight! She went through a divorce and couldn't keep two. She sold the good horse to hold on to the problem horse and I was completely baffled. I was on this horse once and believe you me I know it's too much for me and I told her I would never ride it again it tried to run me into the side of the barn and did manage to smash my leg! I can only hope one day she reads something like this and is able to open her eyes.


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## Dunroamin

WOW Very good post: I bought a horse that quickly learned to show his power and disrespect for me.. I learned I am a rider, not a trainer and knew quickly after some "incidents" that could have been much worse..I was lucky.. he was too much for me,I did not have the experience to deal with the problems this horse was presenting to me.. I could not bring him along correctly...so before he ruined me I sold him to a more experienced rider/trainer and now am taking lessons with a much calmer older well schooled horse... Thanks for this posting.. after a few bad incidents the decision wasnt that hard to make. Love life and to ride!


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## eliduc

Heck! I've got a horse that doesn't have any of those bad habits and I'm still afraid he's going to kill me!


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## eliduc

What have you done with her preparatory to riding her? Starting from scratch with her was good advice. I wouldn't start at all with her. You might get her to where you can handle her but but she would probably never be safe for her owners and you will then be the one who gets thrown under the bus. You could even be held liable if one of them were injured. The people who own her need to be told that she is not a safe horse for them so they can move on. One other comment, this horse is not a lovely horse. If she were a pretty woman she might be labeled a black widow.


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## roperdon

JustDressageIt said:


> We've all seen it happen, and I'm sure most of us have been there one time or another. Perhaps some of us are there right now: buying the horse that's, well.. too much horse for us. I'm not talking needs a _bit_ of training/settling... I'm talking that horse that makes us look like fools... the horse that has problems, the horse that bucks/bolts/spins/rears/kicks.. you name it... and it's beyond our knowledge level.
> It's a frightening spot to be in, and it is one that tests our very mettle.
> What it really comes down to are two decisions: do we keep the horse, and work through the problems, or do we sell the horse, and get one that's more level-appropriate?
> 
> There are major problems arise with this question:
> 1) the human ego. We don't like to admit we're wrong, or don't know enough, or aren't strong enough, or ... well, we just don't like to admit that we aren't enough, period.
> 2) we feel that we've somehow let the horse down. We humans (most of us anyways) get attached to the animals in our lives, however briefly. By the time we realize that the horse is too much, we've already gotten attached. Thus, the thought of selling said horse becomes more difficult.
> 3) we have been bombarded with so many stories of the underdog (read: inexperienced horseman) taming the wild horse that a lot of people have started to think this is the norm... it is not.
> ...right along with this point is...
> 4) the romantic idea of "taming the wild horse" is very, very over-played. Believe me, there is nothing romantic about taking a problem horse and trying to fix it. There is a lot of blood (so to speak), sweat and tears. The end result is worth it... if you know what you're doing. If you don't know what you're doing... well sometimes it doesn't end well at all.
> 
> *Sticking with it*
> 
> This is the option that most of us at least flirt with for a while. The biggest problem with this option is that when we buy a horse that's too much of us, obviously we don't have the experience to deal with the problems the horse has, or to bring the horse along correctly. This is a catch-22. We try our darndest, but we cannot see what we're doing wrong, as we just don't have the experience to _see what we're doing wrong._ So we keep doing things wrong, thinking we're right -- um, the problem with this is apparent.
> So how do we deal with this?
> The most obvious answer to most of us is get a trainer/instructor. That would be fantastic... if only we could point at any name in the Yellowpages under "Horse Trainer" and get exactly what we need. Oh, and there's also the slight hiccup of money - trainers cost money.
> Not all trainers are created equal... in fact, I'd be so bold to say that there are more bad trainers out there than good... so the odds are stacked against you from day 1. Well, that's kind of crummy, to say the least.
> Nonetheless, finding a decent trainer will likely take care of our problems. The horse can either get sent away for training (and come back to us with more wet saddle blankets and miles under its girth) or we can opt to take lessons and learn with the horse, and how to handle its problems and quirks.
> With a good trainer, either of these options can be very beneficial, and you can end up with the horse of your dreams... or at least one you can ride and handle.
> So, how do we go about finding that special trainer? Your best bet is word of mouth. People like to talk. A lot. They especially like to talk when they can complain - so go hang out at your local tack store, go to shows.... and keep your ears open.
> Anyways, that isn't really the point of this post, more of a side-tip. The bottom line is that if you are in over your head with your horse, finding someone reputable that can help you is one of the best steps you can take.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, due to many circumstances, a lot or people that are in over their heads to not get help.... or get the wrong kind of help - though I'm not quite sure which is worse. A lot of horse owners keep a horse that is too much for them. They think they can work through it, but either can't or won't spend the money on a decent trainer, or they don't have any decent trainers around them to help.
> With that intro, let's move on to the main point of this post: *When to quit playing the hero.*
> Like I said earlier, it's human nature to either not want to admit we have a problem, or not admit we need help when we do realize that we might just have a big problem on our hands. Couple that with our human need to care for living things, and you can see how easily this becomes very dangerous.
> We want things to end up like they do in the movies; we want so badly to be that main character that is able to tame the wild horse that we don't really see the big picture, nor the lack of romance that real life really offers us.
> Horses are big animals. They can throw their weight around, and they can hurt us. They can kill us. It's not in their nature to do so, no, but if we're in the wrong place at the wrong time, or react wrongly, well.. we can end up dead.
> I don't think enough people appreciate this sentiment.. especially not when we're young and invincible.
> Training horses takes a lot of instinct, or 'horse sense' as some call it. The nice thing about this instinct and horse sense is that it can be learned. The problem is, it takes a darn long time to learn it... it's not an easy lesson, nor is it readily acquired.
> 
> When a horse is untrained beyond our abilities, and we have no trainer or mentor, we are very liable to ruin said horse, at least for a while. A trainer once told me that we ruin the first 10 horses we touch. We don't have the know-how, we don't have the instinct, we don't have the experience to truly to any real favors to the first horses we touch.
> 
> How do we acquire such talents? We learn from experience. We learn from talking to people who know more than us. We learn from paying people who know more than us to teach us how to react in various situations. We attend clinics from people who know more than us. We read books written by people who know more than us..... see the pattern?
> 
> As a disclaimer of sorts, I must say that there are some very rare people that can learn by trial and error, and fix a problem horse that they originally had no idea how to fix and do it on their own.... but, let me say this very clearly.... this is not the norm, and it is very very rare.
> 
> How does it usually end, if you don't seek help?
> More often than not, there's an event or two that lead the owner to realize that they cannot do this alone. Usually this realization results from injury, either to the horse or to the owner.
> Sometimes it takes a serious, life-threatening injury to make the owner realize that something has to change.
> 
> 
> *When you realize it's time to move on.*
> 
> Right off the bat, I want to say that there is nothing wrong with selling a horse that is too much for you, and getting something more your level. Nothing. In fact, I commend people who realize that they are in over their heads, want to find a good home for the horse, and find a horse that is more suited to their abilities.
> 
> This usually comes after flirting with the idea of fixing the horse yourself, or even after having someone try to fix the horse for you. Sometimes it happens when the person sustains the injury I mentioned a few paragraphs above.
> 
> If you cannot afford to hire someone to teach you how to deal with the problem horse, or send the horse away for training, or there is no decent trainer around you, I usually suggest selling the horse.
> Why?
> If you try and "play the hero" and fix the horse yourself without any know-how or guidance, it usually doesn't end well. You either don't know how to react in a situation, or react poorly in a situation, and make it worse. For example, I saw one lady that simply jumped off her horse when it started to hunch up or buck; she didn't know how to deal with the bucking horse, so she taught the horse that if it hunched up or bucked, it would be rewarded by being allowed to relax. The owner had no clue what she was doing wrong, and grew more and more terrified of the horse, and kept teaching the horse bad habits.
> 
> If you don't know how to fix it, can't send the horse away to get fixed, and can't get the help to learn how to fix it, sell or give it to someone who DOES know.
> A horse is not worth your life. If you can't get the help, it is not worth risking your life to fix. It is also not worth ruining the horse more for the sake of your pride.
> 
> Sometimes, a horse is just too much for us. There is nothing wrong with admitting this. Even if you've worked with a dozen trainers, and you're still in over your head.... well.... it's time to move on.
> 
> It will be best for you and the horse to part ways. You can take necessary precautions to make sure the horse ends up in a good home - usually, a problem horse won't fetch a lot of money, but they also won't take up more of your money in feed and upkeep costs. This way, the horse can be ridden and trained by someone that has the knowledge to work through the problems.
> You, in turn, can either spend money on lessons, or buy a horse that's more appropriate for your level of riding, and learn on it.
> 
> Of course, another option, if you have the time and money, and if the horse is safe to handle on the ground, is to retire the horse to a pasture ornament. This works for some horses, and not for others... some horses need to work to be happy, and others are perfectly content being a pasture puff, but it is another option to consider.


i agree with all you said i am there right now,I have a real nice heading horse with lots of speed.Have already won some good ropings on him.But if he has not been worked for a few weeks,He is likely to buck when i turn the first steer or 2,We cannot find anywhere where he hurts and he has never bucked when we just go ride.He has lots of spirit and maybe too much for me


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## minstrel

I do agree with this in theory - to cope with "problem horses" does require a lot of time and patience, awareness of what you are doing and how you are interacting with the animal. The issue of being over horsed is a big one, and certainly in my area we see a lot of riders with big, pacey warmbloods who are merely sitting on top and relying on the horse's generosity to get them through their test/course. However, if you know that you don't have the experience to fix the horse yourself, there are plenty of great instructors out there who can help you get together with your horse.

I now actually work 'fixing' behavioural issue with horses, and it all stemmed from my first horse as a teenager who I took on knowing in advance he was too much for me. He bolted and bucked, and I actually broke my hand the first day I tried him out elsewhere. But we had a connection, and I was determined to sort him. With the invaluable help of my instructor, I essentially re-broke him from scratch, lunging him in new tack and to build up the muscle in his hindquarters and saddle area, and within two months of restarting him, I had a fantastic, close to bomb-proof horse with amazing paces and real scope for dressage. Unfortunately, he ended up getting an injury in the field which left him unrideable almost a year after we'd gotten together, but sorting him (which was really a case of taking things slowly and listening to him to find out what it was that scared him so much about being ridden) gave me the bug, and I've since been employed by my former instructor to help with all the difficult horses she's had at her yard since. I have known only one horse in the ten years I've been around that yard now that couldn't be helped just by letting it relax into a laid back environment, and gentle work based around what it finds difficult. We've even had some proper broncs, who I wasn't sure would ever be rideable, who with time and effort have become kid's ponies who I would trust implicitly.

My current horse, for example, is one I picked up for free because he was thought to be too difficult to handle - he was known for dragging his owner around, refusing to load, breaking off the lorry when out and rampaging around show grounds, breaking through electric-fencing in the field and generally being a menace. However, I've discovered a lovely horse who simply hates being shouted at and bullied, and with careful management techniques he is the sweetest, most affectionate and lovely to handle horse I've ever had. The so-called problems don't go away, they are usually down to management and training, so whilst ym horse is perfect for me, my sister for example hates handling him, as she is a much more domineering person than me, and he does't like her way of handling him, so misbehaves the way he used to. 

So whilst sometimes the way these horses act is a build of of bad handling/riding, which can be released and the horse re-established for novice riders again just with perseverance and help, others are merely sensitive enough to react that way to different types and levels of riders. So your issue of being over horsed is a complex one - sometimes, a relatively green rider and horse can come on great and through issues with the help of someone experienced, but in other cases, it simply is that the rider is unaware both the horse and the signals they are giving that horse to react to.


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## greenbryerfarms

i like problem horses but i know how much problem i can handle... lol


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## sjwrightauthor

I thought I could handle a 12-year-old Rocky with good training. No abuse in his past, good ground manners, stands still for mounting, great with farrier. But having a severe lack of personal confidence in the saddle changes everything. No matter how well trained a horse is, if you lack confidence then it's kind of pointless. My husband made a statement last night that made a lot of sense. "Having a horse was your dream, but it doesn't make you happy." A lot of money spent on what is supposed to be a great horse is still wasted money if you don't believe in yourself.


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## FrancesB

sjwrightauthor said:


> I thought I could handle a 12-year-old Rocky with good training. No abuse in his past, good ground manners, stands still for mounting, great with farrier. But having a severe lack of personal confidence in the saddle changes everything. No matter how well trained a horse is, if you lack confidence then it's kind of pointless. My husband made a statement last night that made a lot of sense. "Having a horse was your dream, but it doesn't make you happy." A lot of money spent on what is supposed to be a great horse is still wasted money if you don't believe in yourself.


I feel for you sjwright; this is a very difficult situation to be in. I know what lack of confidence in the saddle feels like, I used to be a bunch of nerves on even the quietest horse. The thing that has helped me most has been doing Friendship Training. I started it to help my horse relax and get over some issues (he used to be very spooky and resistant), but it has made an amazing amount of difference to my confidence - I never realised how much fear I had around horses until it left me. Also, being with the horses and doing other things we both enjoy - going for walks on the lead for example (i.e., me on my feet leading him), and playing around obstacle courses, and just hanging out together. And riding where I feel very safe, and progressing at the rate that is right for me (snails pace compared to how other people progress, but making definite progress).

Yesterday I was able to mount a (nice, quiet, 15.3 hh) horse I had never met before and ride him with just a bareback pad and a halter. I did ask someone to stand next to him when I mounted so I could be confident he wouldn't move as he felt very tall, but then was able to mount with only the tiniest hesitation and tiniest tremble of my hands, and within 30 seconds was relaxed and comfortable, and after 15 minutes of ambling and talking was confident to take him out of the round yard for a little ride. This is a huge personal best for me, normally even on quiet horses it takes several rides for my twitches to leave if I don't know the horse. My riding has gotten much better now I am riding less and doing lots of other things with my horse, and I have discovered there are lots of enjoyable things to do with horses other than just riding them, and I get a great deal of pleasure just out of the relationship we have together.

Rider confidence is a huge issue, it's on lots of forums on the net. If you like this boy when you are on the ground, I suspect he can help you with your riding hugely if you just take things slow and progress at the pace you need to to feel safe.
Regards
FrancesB


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## FoamyOpals

Im glad i came across this post, I am getting my first horse soon and this very much applies to me!
The horse Ive been given is a bit of trouble and im hoping I can bring out the good in her. They say she used to be a dream to ride but has been let to rot in the pasture and has resorted to bucking (i think the bucking is pain related though) 
The good thing though is that if i do find that she is over my head the previous owner will take her back. 

I have high hopes that with a little understanding and regular exercise she will be a great horse. Plus she is just too pretty to rot in the pasture and she is very underweight where she is now.


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## myQHpaul

I had a quarter horse that had extreme medical issues that was costing me more money than I could afford so a friend who absolutely loved him and had the great paying job to handle the massages, chiropractor, and acupuncturist bought him with cash and a trade. In return, I got a breeding stock black paint mare. I was so excited to start working with her but it started with frustration and only got worse. She was so dominate and bull headed that I was afraid to get on her back and ride. I have very gentle hands and took lessons and did hours of groundwork and nothing helped. I had friends with years of experience ride her and they got no where either. She would get light on her front end and pitch a fit when she didn't feel like having anyone ride her. 

I called it quits when I ended up in tears after a particularly rough training session so I listed her for sale. It took a few months but a woman who just wanted a horse to walk on trails, (which is what this mare absolutely adored) fell in love with her immediately the first time she came to see her and bought her on the spot. She emails me every once in a while and tells me how great she is doing and how everyone at her new barn completely loves her and pampers her.

I knew to call it quits after 6 months. I am too old to worry about getting hurt and being afraid to get on a horse I own. I found Sonny a week after I sold my mare. I was going to wait a while and really look for that dream horse but the first time I saw Sonny, I knew he completed me. Everyone at the barn is thrilled at the relationship we have already developed in the few short months I have had him. We trust eachother completely and I could never see myself without him. He is my soul horse and probably the last horse I will ever own.


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## Mckellar

Well I have a few things on this, my mare is the best horse I have ever owned. I don’t know if I will ever have another one like her, when I went to try her she was amazing for me. I knew she had tons and tons of high level training and show experience but I wanted a horse above my ability so I can move up to the horse and then work with them. If you get a horse at your level then when you grow your stuck with a horse that can’t do anything except “x and y” when you need one to do “ x,y, and z”. Hope that makes sense. Anyway, brought her home and I couldn’t ride her. Got on her and she was crow hopping, spooking, wouldn’t stand, just not good. I went to lunge her and she ran at me. When I would go to graze her she would drag my but around and “spook” right on top me. 0 respect. 

I got my then trainer to ride her for me for about a week, and then when I would ride her my trainer still got on first. Jumping – ya right. Thrown around like a rag doll. It was bad. I felt so defeated and people said mares take a while to bond- well that’s wonderful but I cant ride the **** thing how will I bond with her. So I went to good old ground work. And gave myself a time limit if I still got no where then call the old owner and say sorry but I thought it would have worked out better. *she wasn’t cheap so I doubt the owner would want to buy her back and wouldn’t be too thrilled about me selling her*

Long story short.. Within 4 months ( my limit was 3 but we where making progress ) we really where kind of sort of a team. She had respect for me and accepted that I was the new rider and she’s going to have to work with me. We still have our tiny itsy bitsy issues but geeze nothing like before. If I would have packed it in then I wouldn’t be where I am. I think each situation is different but I believe a time limit should be in place with goals within that. 

On the other hand, I also held onto a horse for 5 years that I didn’t ride that often, I ended up leasing him out for a year. Scared sh*tless of him and would no ride him. My old old “trainer” –big quotes on trainer!! Liked him a lot, basically had me buy him for her.. Nice eh? And she told me he bolted. Was rearing and was crazy and grabbed onto the bit and ran, she couldn’t stop him ( My horse accident was from a horse bolting ). So she rode him and I didn’t. I knew he was safe but it was unnerving to hear that. But He was going to an auction and he was an 19 y/o OTTB and cleary treated horribly from his past owners, teeth broken from bits, broken withers, underweight, scars from boots. Who knows where he would have ended up… I gave the horse a loving forever home, towards the end I did start to ride him, but I still brushed him everyday and have him a new best friend ( one of my other horses ) the two where tied at the hit and couldn’t be separated. I should have sold him… but honestly I think he was quite happy just being my companion J 

So long story short, it really depends on you situation on what to do with a horse you can’t ride. Each story and horse is different. The pic is of me and Andy. He was a wonderful horse, with I had lost that trainer.


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## weshay

This is true, but i also think trainers sometimes put us on horses that are more than we can handle so we can understand. My instructor had watched me ride my bombproof horse in about 4 lessons and then put me on one of her arabians. The horse was not, contrary to popular belief, crazy, but he moved faster and was more sensitive than anything i had ever ridden before. I was scared, and realized how much my bombproof horse still had to teach me. I now ride lots of different types of horses comfortably, and also have my own arabian!  A little eye-opener can sometimes help us understand what level we really are on, knock or ego down a few notches, and keep us safer in the long run!


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## garrochaUSA

I could write 4 pages with stories that relate to that post, but I'll try and keep it short instead. I have specialized in problem horses for 35 years now. It is my passion and my addiction. Dealing with the horses is relatively easy. It is the owners, that I have trouble figuring out! I am a brutely honest person and I have likely had to sit down face to face with on average 100 owners a year about their beloved horses. I find myself asking the majority of them "what posessed you to buy this horse?" The majority of the responses are that he/she is so pretty. Well, pretty is, as pretty does. i beleive that about horses and people both. Color or markings should be the last thing you should consider when buying a horse unless you just want him as a pasture ornament. If riding is your goal, then keep trying those horses until you find one that makes you smile when you ride him around, not just one that dazzles you the minute you see him out in the pasture. Some of the best horses I have ever rode have been plain ordinary looking horses, but they had heart and try and would shine in their job and give you a ride that put you in a good mood for days! That is how you should feel when you ride. If you are dreading getting on your horse consistantly.....you are missing out and need to make a change.


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## Pat1960

About 7 month ago my horse Santana was to much horse for me. I decided to keep him. I have a trainer come to our house twice a week to work with us. I take a lesson once a week on a differed horse. I ground work him every day. Ride him several times a week and he behaves like a gentleman. I'm glad that I choose to keep him. He has learned to respect me and I understand that I have to be the leader. He is a differend horse now than he was 7 month ago, and I understand him better now. We both needed training.


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## jaydee

*when to give up*

I have owned and worked with horses for over 50 years now because at the age of 11 I knew when to give up. After learning and excelling on a real genuine pony my grandfather thought I was better than I was and bought me a very green bigger pony that took advantage on the ground and under saddle. He was mean spirited and had a tendency to bolt. Thank God my mother was wise enough to tell me that I wasn't a failure just over-horsed for the experience I had. My next pony was perfect - just challenging enough to take me to the next level and the one after that I broke myself when I was 14 and she became a wonderful ride. Since then I've had some really difficult horses that other people have given up with and turned them around but I've never lost sight of my limitations. Nowadays I know that my joints make me far less agile than I used to be and if I fall I'm probably going to break a lot easier so I know in my head that the horse I'm probably looking longingly at is not the one for me any more. Never lose sight of the fact that we are supposed to be doing this stuff for fun, to enjoy it. That problem horse you may be feeling guilty about isn't going to worry about hurting you badly or even killing you, there is no shame in giving up and moving on. There are lots of kind forgiving horses out there that won't take advantage of your mistakes and weaknesses.


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## FrancesB

I completely agree we have to be safe, and sometimes we do get into situations we can't manage. Sometimes the problem might be the situation we have put the horse in, not the horse itself. I was told my gelding was dangerous and untrustworthy, it turned out he was just one of those horses who don't trust people very much, and did much better if trained with positive rewards (food scratches, praise) rather than release of pressure. My spooky stubborn resistant run through you if he was scared horse has completely turned round since I went to the different approach.


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## Lokahi

I totally agree. It sometimes isn't even because the horse is "too much", but not "suited" to the discipline the rider wants to do.. even if the breeding is all good for it.. Knowing how to be able to judge if its a good match or not is very important in having the best time!

Happy Training


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## jaydee

*right horse for the job*

Absolutely right. Just over a year ago I knew I had to replace my mare who needed to retire after 18 years of being the best - even though she started out very differently. After a lifetime of too many badly executed flying dismounts (falls) in more challenging horse activities I thought I would go for normal or even cowboy dressage and after looking at many horses took a mare on trial from a dealer. She had many wins in western pleasure - not my thing at all, I'd never even done any western riding - but she was sweet and lovely, had wonderful extravagant paces and elevation on the lunge and I thought it could work - how wrong I was. Under saddle all she knew was how to go round and round the ring with her head almost on the floor, barely any contact with her mouth, to me no impulsion and worse still she had been taught to spur stop so sometimes my command for pick up speed would deliver an immediate stop from whatever pace we were at. She was essentially a robotised horse, if you took her away from the ring she hadn't a clue what to do, the ultimate one trick pony that could do her part piece to total perfection and if you asked anything else she would panic in confusion at thinking she was getting something wrong. After 6 weeks we were getting nowhere fast and I sadly waved her goodbye in favour of a mare that is sometimes confused with me and occasionally gets ahead of the game - 'we did a sidepass here didn't we last time round so therefore we are going to do it everytime we pass this spot etc etc. No? Oh well OK them maybe you'd like me to do a shoulder in then because we've done that here before too. But she's amiable and forgiving and doing her best to please and I can see lots of progress so we're sticking together.


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## kuecktr

I think I'm going to print this out and give it to a few people  I know a lady, she's really nice.. in her 60's. She bred a pretty hot QH mare last year to a local stud in the area. I don't really know anything about the stud. The filly this mare had hit the ground running (if you know what I mean). I had her for ground training last year as a 2 year old and couldn't believe how "hot" she really was. I was able to get her focused on training and had her doing all of her groundwork without a halter. This filly was truly amazing on the ground. She gave to pressure, was focused and loved to work. However, you had to keep both eyes on her at all times. She "knows" who is working with her and will test on a regular basis. I asked this lady what her plans were with this filly. She said, "I would like to use her as an easy going trail horse." I politely told her, "this filly needs a consistent job and needs something to think about every time you ride her. I think she is too much for you." Her response was, "I can't sell her, I named her after my father who passed away last year." I know this horse has a certain "meaning" to her but I'm so worried for her. I know she will get seriously hurt. She asked me to saddle break her this year and my main concern is not whether the horse can do it or not. I know the filly will do great. My main concern is the consistency she will get when she goes home and the high probability that the lady will get very hurt when she goes out to ride her after a month of just sitting.  .. I'm not sure what to do..


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## kuecktr

*A green horse for a green rider :/*



jaydee said:


> I have owned and worked with horses for over 50 years now because at the age of 11 I knew when to give up. After learning and excelling on a real genuine pony my grandfather thought I was better than I was and bought me a very green bigger pony that took advantage on the ground and under saddle. He was mean spirited and had a tendency to bolt. Thank God my mother was wise enough to tell me that I wasn't a failure just over-horsed for the experience I had. My next pony was perfect - just challenging enough to take me to the next level and the one after that I broke myself when I was 14 and she became a wonderful ride. Since then I've had some really difficult horses that other people have given up with and turned them around but I've never lost sight of my limitations. Nowadays I know that my joints make me far less agile than I used to be and if I fall I'm probably going to break a lot easier so I know in my head that the horse I'm probably looking longingly at is not the one for me any more. Never lose sight of the fact that we are supposed to be doing this stuff for fun, to enjoy it. That problem horse you may be feeling guilty about isn't going to worry about hurting you badly or even killing you, there is no shame in giving up and moving on. There are lots of kind forgiving horses out there that won't take advantage of your mistakes and weaknesses.


 
Your post made me think of this saying: 
"green on green, makes black and blue". I think this is one of my favorite quotes  My husband likes to say it all the time lol. That's the first thing I think of when we go to a 4-h show and a parent has bought their green riding kid a green horse so they can "grow" together. It normally always ends in a disaster. I'm happy your parents knew what was "too much" for you and got you something you could learn on. That's a happy story  Thanks for sharing..


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## rob

before you send the horse home,give it a week off.then call the owner over to feed,brush,saddle and ride the horse to see how well they get along .


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## Lokahi

Awesome. That is a great story, and gives hope to others. 
It shows yet again that success/failure is a 2 sided coin.. It depends on which way you look at it.. 
Happy Training


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## SplashedOvero

I have been debating Weather or not I should get rid of my 4 year old That I had to train myself & get a horse that I could be competeing on already.
My Horse doesnt have any big issues besides Not wanting to lunge & wanting to graze when hes ridden in grass besides that hes pretty good.
My parents say I need to stick with him.

Not Saying I Disagree with your post But Most Horseman I have talked to say they became good riders/trainers from the Horses that were too much for them.


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## FrancesB

... took a mare on trial from a dealer. She had many wins in western pleasure - not my thing at all, I'd never even done any western riding - but she was sweet and lovely, had wonderful extravagant paces and elevation on the lunge and I thought it could work - how wrong I was. Under saddle all she knew was how to go round and round the ring with her head almost on the floor, barely any contact with her mouth, to me no impulsion and worse still she had been taught to spur stop so sometimes my command for pick up speed would deliver an immediate stop from whatever pace we were at. She was essentially a robotised horse, if you took her away from the ring she hadn't a clue what to do, the ultimate one trick pony that could do her part piece to total perfection and if you asked anything else she would panic in confusion at thinking she was getting something wrong. .[/QUOTE]

I nearly cried reading this. My heart goes out to this poor mare, I can't help wondering what kind of 'training' she suffered to have become so 'robotised' and afraid to try new things.


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## jaydee

*unsuitable for rider*

That is a really sad story because that mare is never going to be what the lady wants yet could be a wonderful horse for the right person, she may not even get the chance. From experience if they start out a bit on the smart but fizzy side they stay like it for a very long time, they just don't keep it up for so long!!! Maybe you can just hang around and pick up the pieces when she realises that its not the one for her. I know a woman who bought a stunning gelding who was super at his job but she was no way the rider that she sold herself to be - very nervous and loose in the saddle. The horse had a buck now and again - nothing bad just high spirits and every time it happened she fell off but instead of blaming her own weak riding blamed the horse and said it was dangerous and as she couldn't handle it no one else would be able too - tragic end - she had it shot. I give up with people sometimes. 
However I am a very happy person today as my latest mare of one year now has just stood as good as gold to have her shots, tests and dental work done. A year ago when the same work was done a month after I got her she had a massive panic attack and tried to kill us all, today like a different horse and I've not had to chase her round the paddock or hit her or anything else like that to get her respect or desensitize her. Just day to day fair but firm handling to win her trust but in the wrong hands it would have been a very different story


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## jaydee

*stick or give up*



SplashedOvero said:


> I have been debating Weather or not I should get rid of my 4 year old That I had to train myself & get a horse that I could be competeing on already.
> My Horse doesnt have any big issues besides Not wanting to lunge & wanting to graze when hes ridden in grass besides that hes pretty good.
> My parents say I need to stick with him.
> 
> Not Saying I Disagree with your post But Most Horseman I have talked to say they became good riders/trainers from the Horses that were too much for them.


You don't say how old you are or how much experience you have or what you aim to do so its hard to say. Generally speaking its not a good idea to have a green horse and a novice rider together - its what they describe as 'the blind the leading the blind' and you would get more confidence from a horse that already knew the job and then move on to one that needed training. Most of the top showjumpers start out on pricey hand picked schoolmasters and progress from there, same with dressage horses.
Your horse doesn't sound too challenging but he is already 'trying it on a bit with you, maybe you could spend some time and money with a good trainer to get you both through any teething troubles
At the end of the day its you thats going to be riding him not your parents and if you're not having fun then they need to realise that because all the time you're wasting struggling with a green horse you could be having a wonderful time with a well trained horse.
Its this saying 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger' that these 'horsemen' are referring too and though that works for some people there are many many more that usually just give up because their confidence gets too knocked back. The word 'kill; might be a bit strong but I've seen some pretty horrific accidents over the years. There's a huge difference between a horse thats well trained but has to be ridden - rather than a ploddy old thing that does it all for you - and a totally green horse that hasn't got a clue, because if you haven't got a clue either how on earth are you going to educate him


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## HorseGirlie

green on green, makes black and blue...love that


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## Eclipse295

I started Riding on a 25 year old mare who couldn't canter and had to be constantly rested, occasionally medicated, and kept on joint supplements to stay sound. I just peddled around the block and up and down the road on her, I had the time of my life. After 2 years of riding her I wanted to move up to something that could canter and could possibly show a little on. My mom bought me a 10 year old AQHA Registered show horse who needed a confident rider and was ring sour. He was the example of how not to buy a horse. The trainer we know and trust trained the horse when it was 5 and had not seen the horse for 5 years. When the horse came up for sale he said 'I remember this horse, he is really nice." and we bought him, never tried him, never even saw him until we went to pick him up. When we would ride in an empty arena we were fine, but take him on the trail or ride in an arena with more then 1 or 2 other horses and he bucked, reared, bolted, you name it he did it. After a week of training where we were doing great and went to a 4-H ride and he bolted 3 times, bucked me off twice, and then bucked me off and knocked me out for several minutes. We sold him, he went to a show home with an experienced rider who wanted to go to the top and he is doing great. 
Then we went through a rescue and looked at several horses, the first turned out to have a stifle injury, the second turned out completely loco, the third turned out to have a hock injury. 
We thought we had hit the jackpot with the fourth a white Appaloosa mare, she was beautiful, when I road her for the first couple months I knew she didn't like to stop but would with a little bit of coaxing, but as I kept riding her she started rearing and went over 3 times. She does fine with more confident riders but ever since what I have called the 'big, black show horse incedent' I have been terrified and when she started rearing I was scared to death to get back on her, which didn't help. We are probably selling her once her foal is weaned (when we adopted her she was apparently bred) unless she completely turns around and becomes a perfect horse and I plan on continuing to work with the foal and debate on whether or not to sell the foal once she is completely halter broke.


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## jaydee

*getting the right horse*



Eclipse295 said:


> I started Riding on a 25 year old mare who couldn't canter and had to be constantly rested, occasionally medicated, and kept on joint supplements to stay sound. I just peddled around the block and up and down the road on her, I had the time of my life. After 2 years of riding her I wanted to move up to something that could canter and could possibly show a little on. My mom bought me a 10 year old AQHA Registered show horse who needed a confident rider and was ring sour. He was the example of how not to buy a horse. The trainer we know and trust trained the horse when it was 5 and had not seen the horse for 5 years. When the horse came up for sale he said 'I remember this horse, he is really nice." and we bought him, never tried him, never even saw him until we went to pick him up. When we would ride in an empty arena we were fine, but take him on the trail or ride in an arena with more then 1 or 2 other horses and he bucked, reared, bolted, you name it he did it. After a week of training where we were doing great and went to a 4-H ride and he bolted 3 times, bucked me off twice, and then bucked me off and knocked me out for several minutes. We sold him, he went to a show home with an experienced rider who wanted to go to the top and he is doing great.
> Then we went through a rescue and looked at several horses, the first turned out to have a stifle injury, the second turned out completely loco, the third turned out to have a hock injury.
> We thought we had hit the jackpot with the fourth a white Appaloosa mare, she was beautiful, when I road her for the first couple months I knew she didn't like to stop but would with a little bit of coaxing, but as I kept riding her she started rearing and went over 3 times. She does fine with more confident riders but ever since what I have called the 'big, black show horse incedent' I have been terrified and when she started rearing I was scared to death to get back on her, which didn't help. We are probably selling her once her foal is weaned (when we adopted her she was apparently bred) unless she completely turns around and becomes a perfect horse and I plan on continuing to work with the foal and debate on whether or not to sell the foal once she is completely halter broke.


I feel so sorry for you because you seem to be having a really tough time finding the right one for you. At least you have the good sense to know when to quit and move on.
I'm not going to tell you to keep this infoal mare because there are so many pitfalls in raising a foal and it can cost you so much money. They start out all cute and cuddly then all of a sudden they are like a toddler in the terrible 2 phase except that if you get it wrong it lasts forever or until some more experienced steps in to take over.
Rescue horses are most often in kill pens or sold cheap at auctions for a good reason - they have a serious unsoundness or a serious problem. Do you know a reputable dealer who would take the mare off you in part exchange for a solid reliable animal? Try to buy or even loan your next horse by finding one that is recommended to you by someone you trust and knows what your 'comfort zone' is. I do wish you luck but right now I'm not seeing a happy ending to your current situation.


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## Amlalriiee

This was a good read...

I don't know if this has been said because I didn't go through EVERY page, but there is also a HUGE difference between passing a horse on to somebody who can help them better than you can and "giving up on them". It's kind of like the difference between adoption/professional help for a child and...desertion...? When parents can't handle their children, the best thing they can do for the child is seek professionals or families who can. Selling a horse is just admitting that the match isn't right and it can sometimes be the best thing that can happen for that horse. Remaining in a home that cannot care for them results in abuse and neglect, no matter which species you consider. However, I do see a very sad point for both horses and children where nobody can handle them and essentially they are in a holding pattern somewhere. With children they could end up in jail, or institutionalized in a long term lock down facility. Horses end up being put down, auctioned, or abused. (or if they are lucky, allowed to live out life in a pasture somewhere) It would be nice if every horse or every child could be turned around with some fast-working program to get them back on track and safe! That's not real life, though. Much of the issue goes back to "breeding responsibly". Do not produce more animals (or children!) than you can care for, and when you do produce them, CARE FOR THEM. Take the time to reward appropriate behavior and consequence inappropriate behavior. Prevention will do a whole lot more than treatment/training later on. How many aggressive children/horses have not experienced trauma themselves??? I'll tell you that in my experience, the answer is not many. If human breeding were selective as horse breeding (except according to temperament and responsibility, not looks) this would probably solve the problem for both species. I don't see that happening though, and in a lot of ways don't think it should...but it IS sad how humans can cause so many problems for the other species around us.


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## jaydee

*when to give up*



Amlalriiee said:


> This was a good read...
> 
> that in my experience, the answer is not many. If human breeding were selective as horse breeding (except according to temperament and responsibility, not looks) this would probably solve the problem for both species. I don't see that happening though, and in a lot of ways don't think it should...but it IS sad how humans can cause so many problems for the other species around us.


 You sound like a very wise & perseptive young woman, its a shame more aren't like it. You only have to look around to see the worlds resources running down and one war after another to realise that we are a pretty crap species. I often think that people should have to have training and approval to have children to prove that they are capable of raising for them and providing for them, all over the place there are generations of families that have never done a days work so have no role models, thats not the same as someone whos been unfortunate to lose their job and trying desperately to find a new one
At one time no one bought a pony (unless they were experts themselves) without the child taking riding lessons and spending time at a good yard learning how to care for it then if they did take it home they surrounded themselves with people who gave sound advice. maybe there should be some law that says you have to prove yourself capable and not off the back of some Youtube videos either. People listen to a few then think they are experts, go and take on some Rescue case they know nothing about, some are even going to auctions to buy them because they're cheap and a few weeks later they are either asking the most basic things because its all gone horribly wrong and they can often get answers from all sorts of cranks who've never had anything more challenging than a horse that plods along the trails. There are some good trainers out there and I know there are some bad ones too and plenty that are just average which is fine if you have an average horse.
The yard I managed for many years used to take work experience people from a college, we once had a woman who was nearly finished and had found a seasonal job on a hunt yard but had never even galloped on an open space. She was an OK rider but I put her on a horse that had also done things like a bit of showjumping and low level dressage, my 14 year old son had ridden him as had my bosses niece of the same age and done really well in shows. The woman whittered on all the way around about how the horses diagonals were all wrong which to be honest I'd never noticed as he moved really well, when we got to the first open stretch, he was a very polite horse but I said to her 'he's fine but keep him under control, don't let him go away from you' Next thing he's off like a rocket, she's flapping her arms and screaming and then bails out. She was OK but I had in todays money a $40k horse galloping loose around an open area with a busy road to one side if he went that far. Luckily some girls from the yard were riding and he saw them and went to their horses. She told the college that the horse was dangerous and tried to put in a legal complaint. She went on to be trainer.
It is sad when you see what could be a wonderful horse in the wrong hands and ending up being branded a high risk, going round the auction merry go round until it finally ends up in a kill pen because some person thinks they are capable of doing anything with any horse based on no broad experience whatsoever
When I bought this last mare of mine the old dealer said to my husband 'you're wifes an experienced rider' and when he said how can you tell she's only just got on he said - 'because she gathered up the reins and held them herself rather than put all her trust in some young woman holding the horse for her, she's obviously been used to horses that don't always do what they are supposed to do. 
I found that scarey.


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## Amlalriiee

Thank you, jaydee. I work with emotionally disturbed high school kids so I see a lot of the damage that our species has done to ourselves. I agree that parenting should be taken much more seriously, as should horse ownership. Not everybody can handle it. Amazing that the woman went on to become a trainer...one of the most important pieces of this "when to give up" question is that people need to be honest about their abilities. Admit when you're wrong and when you can't handle something on your own...bite the bullet, swallow your pride, and get help....for the horse's sake. This woman needed a LOT more experience...not that she could NEVER be a trainer, but she was not anywhere near ready...especially if she is blaming the horse instead of having the courage to admit she was in the wrong.


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## Just Me

*Smile*

Yeah, been there doing that. But we raised it, still there 9 years later, ha!
Well, he's workable, it's US and we know it. TIme constraints for a few years. He's doable, it's a time issue, but we would feel GUILTY sending him away!

Yeah, not so much hero, I"m all about safety and being realistic with expectations. But OTOH, we've brought him a long way despite some of our failings, which we actually fixed, can you believe that? We couldn't, but we did. Wow, that's such a good feeling. 

Maybe stubborness, we refuse to give up. 
Really not too much horse, he's actually really really calm and quiet when you work him consistently and when he feels safe...he's a pocket pony, he's just a scardy cat when mom is gone, lacks confidence in us because we weren't strong enough (or consistent enough for a few years) leaders...we've learned, now we are, and he IS coming around quickly.

Today, he was a good boy, separated from mom, it only took him 30 minutes to calm HIMSELF down, we don't force him, he tells us when he's ready (he'll walk to DH and be good) then we work with him, then he goes off a bit again, then we work him, then he says, oh never mind, it's more fun being with you, and well, that's our biggest issue with him really, the buddy sour thing, so no, I don't think we fit into all categories, but we do fit into the he could have been more useful for someone else for a few years...we didn't do him justice, but it's never too late to start.

We're all work-in-progress.


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## eternalecho

Thank you for posting this... my mom bought me a 16.2 emaciated grade gelding because she was mad at my dad... he had good ground manners..in the beginning..once he started gaining weight he got a little pushier.. and when summer hit and all the mares went into heat...it was like dealing with a stud. He was completely out of control and more than a few times almost ran me over. In the saddle he would prance and prance and would try to go through trees and bushs to get me off... 

This was my first horse... and I hadn't been on a horse or around them for 10 YEARS....

I got rid of him, because I felt my well being was in jeopardy... and my mom locked herself in her bedroom for 8 days and refused to see or speak to me... 

My mom bought her first horse 2 years ago, and has ridden him no more than 25 times.. he rears and bolts and she has no control over him.. but she refuses to sell him because sometimes, he 'follows her like a puppy and is just so cute!" I worry about her safety every dat but she doesn't want to hear my advice.


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## jaydee

*knowing when to give up*

Lady with the awkward 9 (?) year old - Have you actually really weaned this horse. I ask because you talk about him being clingy with his mother. Maybe it would be a good idea to break the cycle of his dependency on her by moving one of them away for a while and giving him an older reliable companion that he isn't so tied too

Other lady - The big problem with buying a thin horse out of sympathy is that so often they are not at all quiet when they are well and fit, it happens a lot in OTTB's that have ended up in bad hands, they are mostly not bred to be a first riding horse. We did have one that was a real aristocrat in his breeding and was quite lazy but still not what I'd have called quiet enough for a novice and he could be a 'b' to handle when the mood took him. The other concern with thin horses is that they often have some sort of terminal illness and end up costing you a fortune and a lot of heartbreak when you have to watch them die.


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## eternalecho

Just to clarify, I did not buy him out of sympathy, my mom did, and it was realy about sympathy, it was about cheapness and also only because she was angry at my dad and knew it'd **** him off. I was only 17 at the time. The other really sad thing about the situation was that a trainer helped her pick this horse out, a trainer that had VERY expensive Quarter Horses in his barn and did all the big shows. She was going to put him through training, but the trainer said he 'didn't need it'. I think it was more like it was below him to train him.


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## Christawho

*Thanks you*

Informative post!


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## canterburyhorsetrailrider

Its the same in this country,, many horses are traded from one buyer to the next because of behavoural problems...

I wish folks would be honest when selling a horse and say its got a few issues.....

Unfortunately, from a horses point of view, its doesnt know where it belongs, has no leader, doesnt have much in the way of a stable life, and often ends up defending itself,,,

In my life with horses I know, a horse thru its life will learn good and... not so good behavour...

For example, a horse may buck someone off and run back to its paddock, next time it may do the same.... or it may bolt, scaring the crap out of its rider, so in turn a rider starts only riding in an arena situation to maintain some control, but the horse gets bored with this and more bad behavour starts...

After a while a rider is too scared to ride this horse so its sold to some other unsuspecting buyer who hops on to get bucked off or horse bolts etc...

Again... unfortunately, horses retain good..... and not so good behavour all its life..... it can be trained in other directions but... will always retain behavour learnt..

My wife and I have taken in quite a few troubled horses over our life time that have become virtually worthless in money value..

We give these horses a new home, and give them a stable life, as they get to know us ...

Over time, we start a new horses retraining by leading it our with one of our school master style horses when we go trail riding and do this for quite a while..

This is done on purpose, so this new horse in its own time quietly begins to learn trust.... and also has its own time to get used to us giving quiet commands to it as well as the riding horse..

We often will then take this horse away on several week long treks often unsaddled and just lead...

After more time I will put a pack saddle on it and start packing it on treks.. often these horses will learn, that they have a life finally and in their own time begin to accept us as their leader..

Often a year has past before I will restart them off under saddle,, always with a stable horse they have come to know beside them... I do this as the new horse learns trust and gains cues off the other horse..

We have restarted quite a few horses this way....

On my website... the Appalussa Connor came to us as a dangerous horse some two and a half yrs ago... today... he a bombproof and school master horse that my wife barrel races and rides western pleasure and reining on..
Shae the Irish Draught, was another that had caused his previous owner grief, and we bought him a very green and scary ride,, today, my main trekking horse. again bombproof and a school master type..

Horses, need to be loved and respected to excel...They love attention, and love to feel wanted and needed..

This horse training is only *our way* we have found that seems to work for us... 

We have had no formal training but... over the yrs we listen to what a horse is trying to tell us...


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## jaydee

*honesty when selling*



canterburyhorsetrailrider said:


> Its the same in this country,, many horses are traded from one buyer to the next because of behavoural problems...
> 
> I wish folks would be honest when selling a horse and say its got a few issues.....
> 
> Unfortunately, from a horses point of view, its doesnt know where it belongs, has no leader, doesnt have much in the way of a stable life, and often ends up defending itself,,,
> 
> In my life with horses I know, a horse thru its life will learn good and... not so good behavour...
> 
> For example, a horse may buck someone off and run back to its paddock, next time it may do the same.... or it may bolt, scaring the crap out of its rider, so in turn a rider starts only riding in an arena situation to maintain some control, but the horse gets bored with this and more bad behavour starts...
> 
> After a while a rider is too scared to ride this horse so its sold to some other unsuspecting buyer who hops on to get bucked off or horse bolts etc...
> 
> Again... unfortunately, horses retain good..... and not so good behavour all its life..... it can be trained in other directions but... will always retain behavour learnt..
> 
> My wife and I have taken in quite a few troubled horses over our life time that have become virtually worthless in money value..
> 
> We give these horses a new home, and give them a stable life, as they get to know us ...
> 
> Over time, we start a new horses retraining by leading it our with one of our school master style horses when we go trail riding and do this for quite a while..
> 
> This is done on purpose, so this new horse in its own time quietly begins to learn trust.... and also has its own time to get used to us giving quiet commands to it as well as the riding horse..
> 
> We often will then take this horse away on several week long treks often unsaddled and just lead...
> 
> After more time I will put a pack saddle on it and start packing it on treks.. often these horses will learn, that they have a life finally and in their own time begin to accept us as their leader..
> 
> Often a year has past before I will restart them off under saddle,, always with a stable horse they have come to know beside them... I do this as the new horse learns trust and gains cues off the other horse..
> 
> We have restarted quite a few horses this way....
> 
> On my website... the Appalussa Connor came to us as a dangerous horse some two and a half yrs ago... today... he a bombproof and school master horse that my wife barrel races and rides western pleasure and reining on..
> Shae the Irish Draught, was another that had caused his previous owner grief, and we bought him a very green and scary ride,, today, my main trekking horse. again bombproof and a school master type..
> 
> Horses, need to be loved and respected to excel...They love attention, and love to feel wanted and needed..
> 
> This horse training is only *our way* we have found that seems to work for us...
> 
> We have had no formal training but... over the yrs we listen to what a horse is trying to tell us...


 I really liked your post because its such a common occurence especially happening a lot in horses being sold cheaply at auctions and ending up in rescue centres - often bought by people who are total amateurs and have never ridden them or seen them ridden. A lot of these horses would be fine with an experienced rider but dangerous for a novice
We have used the same technique of leading a difficult horse off a steady one many times and always with great success. I've seen horses that were virtually unrideable turned into great reliable mounts this way. I'd also rather take more time to rehabilitate a problem horse than try to bully it into submission with hard riding because when that horse is sold on it soon realises that its new owner is not so dominant or accomplished and slips back into its old ways
Thanks for your post - nice to know someone else has done well using the same method as us


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## canterburyhorsetrailrider

Thank you for your kind words..

I wish I could fix all the poor horses that cause grief to riders..

I love working with troubled horses and each one I sort of take on as a personal Challenge I guess..

The more difficult a horse is.....( the more mistrained, or abused or bullied ) the longer I give a horse to settle.

The things these horses often need is time.......... time to look around... time to actually feel as if they have finally got a home...a stable enviroment to grow and develop..

Patients....... quiet and non invasive approach... I dont get in their face so to speak.... 

I hear a lot of trainers and riders say they get in the horses face and demand they do this and do that... thats fine, but in my book this is bordering on bullying tactics..... if that works to you. or them. then ok... I am not here to judge one against the other

Patience is a big training tool I use.... never never do I use force... never never do I carry a whip, or use spurs.. I dont even own any...

Once a horse learns to trust and accept you as its leader, it will more than often be happy to work for you. and in time like for example Shae my Irish Draught, a once dangerous horse to ride... today takes me on week long mountain trail rides, sometimes up narrow mountainside, one foot wide tracks with no guard rail to prevent dropping off the side way down into the creek below... I trust him.. he trusts me.. We have a contract.... I look after him.. feed him. keep him warm and out of danger.. in return he looks after me when I am around him or on his back... we have a bond... a 50/50 partnership...

This to me is what I aim for.... it takes time. and patience....!

I have grown to listen...... to what a horse is telling me.... and if you listen.... your horse is speaking to you as well.... all the time....!


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## lovewesternhorses

Interesting subject. I ride alot in shows (newly on the show scene a couple of years ago in Western after having come from English riding years ago), and the number of times I have seen riders that are "over mounted" meaning horses are too much for their expertise or experience, and waiting for something to happen (which unfortunately invariably happens). Personally, I am not too proud to say, no.. I can't ride this horse because I don't have either the expertise or confidence to do it justice. 
I am very lucky to have a husband (and some will know him on this website as Canterburyhorsetrailrider) who has been able to help me by riding my horses and get their kinks out. An example was my Appy Konnah. Hes an awesome dude now, but I have to say when we got him he was a handful. Long story short his previous owner lost the "connection" with him, so he ended up being the leader. So when we got him, he bolted, spun etc without warning. Tony was able to ride him for the 1st 6 weeks and get him out of this. (and it was hairy to say the least initially fro the stories I have been told).. Then I got on him, and have taken him to being a great ride. He respects us. Accepts us as his leader. But always tries to push the boundaries. If I didn't have Tony to fall back on to ride him when needed, I can honestly say I may not be riding today. While his ways may not be every persons cup of tea, he was able to put miles on my Appy and that's what was needed. I have ended up with an awesome horse. He still tries to (as I said earlier) push the boundaries, but he is more controllable.. more stable. I know what I can do with him, and what I need to steer clear of -(he gets grass staggers, and spring/autumn here can be quite cruel to him) so I just adjust what I do with him and when. I fully believe if we didn't have him, and someone else bought him who didn't have experience he would be quite a dangerouse horse. (he has already kicked his previous owner through no fault of her own except for not having clear boundaries with him - unfortunately she got scared of him, even to the extent she would not go into the paddock with him - very sad)
I have to say (even after having spent alot of years with horses in between breaks from them) I attended Buck Branamans clinic 3 years ago. He taught me the basics of groundwork. When we got Konnah, those basics had been lacking, so the clinic coming up within a week of getting Konnah was a godsend. I followed Bucks methods - changed a few things to suit, but basically was the same, and what a difference!!.. I have since been to another once of Bucks clinics, and would recommend them to others. It gave me the confidence to know I could disengage the horse back end... and front end, and basically do what I needed to do with the horse and be safe. After that I could get on the horse, and also be safe, because I had the tools to know how to disengage the back end (to stop any bucking). I still use these methods to this day on my QH which has a tendancy to buck... thankfully not with me on board as yet


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## peppersgirl

I think it should be added that sometimes life situations can change, making a horse no longer what you need. I recently had to send a nice 4 year old mare on her way (back to her previous owners, fear not because I found out I am expecting a little one. As much as I loved this horse and got along great with her, she no longer fit into the family as she was too much for me (sensitive and needs a job kind girl) to be riding while pregnant. plus she does not have the personality (not very forgiving if you made a mistake) for me to be able to ever ride with my child. If my husband could have gotten along with her (that was a hate hate relationship lol, she was def. my horse!) and kept up on her riding, things might have been different..

but honestly priorities change when you have a kid on the way, and i had originally bought her to do speed stuff with, not haul around my kiddo. 

we have replaced her with a big paint mare who has go, but likes more whoa, that when the time comes i wont hesitate to teach my kid on her.


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## lovewesternhorses

Yes, I totally agree with you there Peppersgirl. I know when I got our horses, I had a particular lifestyle/situation.. however things can change unexpectedly - over here we had the killer quake to deal with, which is actually one of the reasons we ended up with a couple of our horses. Thankfully things have settle down now quake wise ("touch wood"), we are still getting them, but not to the same magnitude. yay!!.
I'm pleased to hear you haven't given up as some would do, good on you. And also going for something more ameniable


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## sheenaschlytter

I love these posts... I have had my share of the good the bad and the ugly of horse ownership but I have three horses that stick out in my mind as WOW I feel like I never learn my lesson when it comes to a long nose and hairy body lol
first off quick about me I as born on a ranch with parents that are old school as in now plenty about horses but no lessons are knowledge of the real way to ride so at 6 we sold the ranch and by 10 I had had 2 years of lessons and got an amazing horse not bomb proof but he was an amazing teacher and I continued lessons untill I was 13 and I feel in love with boys over horses and he was sold... then I found out horses are really much better then boys and I was ready for a new horse by this time I was 19 and though I knew everything though I had not been ridding in years. So i started looking on line and found a horse I though sounded amazing. I wanted a easy going horse I could do western and english and start back jumping on so I wanted a big horse ( at the time I was 100 pounds and 5'1) This horse was said to be warm blood cross roanish in color and perfect beginer horse. He happened to be close by and again I thought I was doing everything right. I met with the girl that owned him and she already had him out being lounged ( should have been a red flag) He was sweaty and she pulled him out for me to look at him I brushes him and picked his feet and helped saddle him and briddle him and he had amazing ground manners I rode him all around in areana out around and he was perfect. I said I wanted to come out again to decide so we sceduled a day. This time I thought I was being smart and showed up early He was still in his stall but the owner was there and she told me to go ahead and work with him on my own once again he was perfect so I took him.... she hauled him to the boarding stable and I took him out and he was crazy rearing freaked out horse I was not worried at all at this point and though oh new ranch he just scard. well no two weeks later he is perfect unless you try to get on him then he runs straight into the walls and slams you as hard as he can that is if you can stay on plus he was 17 + hands. I calles the vet and trainers out and finally everyone came to the result he had been being sedated before I went to see him and also the first time worked till he was to dead tired to try to kill me. after being thrown off a few to many times. I also became scared of horses. The ranch owner was a old family friend and she needed a big horse to pull a cart so she offered me a trade. This brings me to my next problem horse lol She offered me a sweet 15.3 hand pure qh mare. She was a sweet heart she had not been riddin in two years but I could jump on her bareback with a halter and never worry nothing scared her and shewas amazing only prob was she had been with a stallion. They told me the vet would come out in three months if the breeding did not take she was mine. vet came out and said no baby so I decided to move her closer to my house. well after a while I was in the barn brushing her and felt something in her stomache kick me. YES kick me. I freaked called a vet out and they said no I was crazy she was not preggers... well she continued to gain weight and then all of a sudden she was all bagged up. again vet call ( new vet ) and oh ya she was due anytime.. two weeks later I had a beautiful palomino filly. I had no idea what to do with a baby so I called the old owner and found out she had passed away. well I ended up haveing the time of my life raising the baby and am so glad it was an amazing experience I kept her for a year but know I was no one to break a horse imprinting I did but that was were I know I had to draw the line so I had to sell her and it broke my heart but the mom was always amazing....I now only have a 13.3 hand mustang mare I was without a horse again for 4 years but this girl I got from a so called rescue but man I am so in love with her she take great care of my 6 year old daughter and she is a love to be with.ok this is long I do have one other bad horse story if anyone wants to hear but that one ends in a dead horse


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## fawkesfire

Unfortunately, this week I just fell into the "time to move on" category. My husband, who bless his heart doesn't know horses as well as he knows cows, surprised me with a gelding this summer. He picked the biggest most fire-eyed horse there. He was quiet at the sale, but when he got him home realized he had been sedated and we ended up with a pretty big horse that was green as Dublin on St. Patrick's Day. I am not too proud to say he was too much for me, but it does make me sad. I do believe we picked a good buyer that will do so much more for him than I ever could. Though it makes me sad that I couldn't "love the crazy out of him", I have to be an adult and face the reality that he could kill me bc I don't know how to handle him. Reading this tread has made me feel better about my decision bc I see that a lot of those who move on, move on to horses they have MUCH better relationships with. I'm hoping for that ending too.


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## JustDressageIt

Fawkes, thank you do much for replying. I am so very glad, for all parties involved, that you made that decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrostedLilly

We also had an experience with a "problem horse." She was an Arab/QH cross that we bought as a yearling from a trusted friend. She was absolutely gorgeous, jet black with perfect conformation, but was a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. She would be perfectly fine, then without warning would go into fits of bucking, or would bolt and nothing would stop her. She ran through fences, into things and other horses. My sister stuck with her for 3 years, hoping that through perseverance, we would be able to iron out her issues. The straw that broke the camel's back was when my sister was riding her in a show and she took the bit in her mouth and bolted. She ran straight to the gate and started rearing and pawing the gate repeatedly, trying to get out. The gate was only being held shut by a woman on the other side. We had taken her to numerous trainers, clinics and even had her checked by a vet to see if she had any back or muscle issues that were causing her pain but the reason for her bad behaviour remained a mystery. We finally ended up selling her to a very experienced rider and breeder across the country. I've always wondered what became of her.


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## bit

I was just thinking, maybe I should stop trying to "make" my horse into a trail horse. She is one hell of a versatility horse. Does well in the arena. I've taken clinics from some of the very best there are. She's gotten so much better, but this poor horse just doesn't like going out on the trail. The journey has helped my horsemanship beyond what I can say, so no regrets. She will become the "fourth horse" so that my daughter and I can hit the trail. She'll keep my ottb rescue company in the pasture, and I stop trying to make her into something she's not. She was sold as a wonderful trail horse. She's not. She's been trying to tell me for about three years.
It's not just about riding a safe horse. It's about riding a horse that likes doing what you like to do. Whether it's trail, endurance, western pleasure, jumping, whatever...finding a horse that is a good match goes further than just a safe horse, Like any relationship, a good match isn't just about feeling safe, it's about the quality of time you spend together. The same care and thought should go into choosing a horse as the time and care you spend choosing a spouse.


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## Vidalaequine

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## geekwithahorse

Well written, and I agree completely. I got my Belgian 3 years ago... have learned a lot... and he is a truly fantastic animal. I wouldn't trade him for anything.. in spite of having suffered a broken back (spinous process, T6-T9) and clavicle. When I bought him, I knew he was a project horse.... since he is my first horse, I was a project rider. At this point, the issues I have with him have to do with my experience level as a rider.


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## MeganJoey57

I Know this family; 4 daughters, "barrel trainer" mother, and a rich vet dad. They have so much money they will buy high strung, high performance horses for there 5 year old daughter. The horses are ALWAYS wayyy to much for the children to handle. Most the time while running a set of barrels, they cry through the whole set and have no control over the horse. And if they don't get 1st place, the mom yells or sells the horse and buys a better one. It's ridiculous. I feel so bad for the kids, 1 can ride, but the others have no control. The parents definitely need a reality check. When I read your post on how the horse are to advanced for their riders I immediately though of them.


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## jmdnarri

Great post!!! I'd love to see more people read this before buying a horse. I don't think its possible to overemphasize how unrealistic movies and novels are about training and taming horses.


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## Horseshygranny

Though an older post, this is an excellent one, JustDressageIt, which gives pause for thought. My situation is similar. As a non-horse person trying to decide whether to keep the neighbor's 5 year old green horse here and learning with her to have a basic respect relationship it could be too risky for me. Some folks on the forum have advised me to send her home. The only "trainer" around is my husband who adores the horse but has no time to work with us. Right now I don't know who is more stubborn--me or the horse!


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## AlbertaGirl

JustDressageIt: I really like your original post. I feel like there's more than just wanting to find the horse a good home, once you've realized it's behond your skill level... here in Alberta, Canada, over 300 horses are slaughtered a day according to rescue farm statistics. Even selling a horse to a good home, you never know where it may end up for the rest of it's life. It's tough for people in this situation I think, because they want to make something out of the horse to insure it won't end up becoming a slaughter horse - so a lot of people hang on to that "hero" thing you mention, because they don't want to face reality on the horses' future. I myself have been looking for a safe happy forever home for one of my horses (who I admitedly know is behond my skill level), but the matter of fact is that 4 years later, I still pay for this horse to hangout in a pasture, simply because I'm afraid of where he might end up.


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## WilliamJames

I have never given up on any horse.However,my horses are family and I don't do shows.I guess that I believe any horse is "fixable" with time and patience.


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## Bettabites

Amazing post and replies! All of it is SO true! I'm the young kid in those stories...bu i'm finally coming to the realization it's okay to sell the horse if it's better for you and the horse. I hate the comments nonhorse people make tho when you talk to them about putting your horse up for sale. :/ But i'm getting thicker skin and caring less about their comments. 

I am just wondering...how do you sell the horse that is too much for you if you can't show it to the potential buyer? 

My riding level is more beginner now than intermediate since I haven't been in lessons for about four years now and don't have the money (with paying for college) to take lessons or hire a trainer.


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## Skunkworks

The buyer should be the one riding the horse imo. Be honest in your description and explain that he is simply over your skill level. There's no shame in being over-horsed, we have all been there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bettabites

I think that too, but I wasn't sure how this all works. What if the buyer wants me to ride him? I don't want to lose a sale because I can't show off what my horse can do.I've been honest with how he is and what he does and the buyer is interested in seeing him on Monday. I want him to be his best so the buyer can see it too.


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## JeniTex

I was put in a position about a year ago to to "help" a friend of a friend's horse. Turned out the filly was severely abused and not only didn't trust people, I don't think she likes us much. Long story short, coming to the decision to find a home for her was not a problem for me (I value life & limb) my problem was the responsibility I took on to ensure new owners understood her issues. I find that people overstate their ability and/or understate the problem. In any case, I found this girl a home with a very good trainer and while she won't be doing pony-rides at kiddie parties anytime soon, she trusts mankind a tad more. Thanks for posting!


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## Horse12

ok...it's like this thread was made for me. I started riding again in my late 40s and joined a barn. My "friends" started pressuring me to buy a horse. I always wanted my own but thought I would take refresher lessons for a year or two first. I pictured looking for a calm, steady-eddy horse for low level dressage and trails. 

Well, the owner said she had a friend who had a wonderful purebred Arab that had a junior show record (western pleasure) and I should take a look.....wait for it....."They would look out for me!" "Any horse can do trails and dressage is just ring work and he does that" "Riding him in a high wall closed round pen is all you need" "The friend took him out to ride and that shows you." "The horse will teach you everything you need to know" 

Long story short, I put aside my own judgment and listened to those who said they knew and now own the horse. He is a wonderful horse but just too much for me. He is not forgiving as he is use to experienced riders only. He's goofy and attention grabbing, showy, and very, very smart. Which means he knows how much you really know. 

Needless to say I soon left that barn and moved to a trainer who basically worked him for a year. Not for him, but to give me the time I needed to beef up my skills on a lesson horse. He is wonderful with the trainer, working on flying lead changes, etc. 

I do see him almost every day, we do groundwork, and have recently started riding him while leaving him in training. I can ride him in the arena but he needs you to focus on him all the time and really be correct in your riding. He seems to know when my mind wanders even just slightly and I'm not paying attention to my riding. He needs to be ridden and worked every day. He needs, and is happy, when he has a job. He's 11.

Basically he's still above my skill level. I love taking lessons (3x a week) and learning classical dressage, and will continue the rest of my life, but really don't see me competing. It will also take a couple more years before I can even approach riding at the level my horse needs me to be at. To be honest, I'm not sure I want the pressure either. I already have a demanding job. 

Bottom line. Do I stick it out? If I don't, how do I find him a good home? Money isn't the issue....I'm more worried about finding an experienced rider that will understand him. 

I do care for him a great deal and have seen too many riders who "say" they are experienced riders...or are...but don't know the costs involved, or have the money, or time, to keep a horse like him. I also see a lot of younger riders who lose interest, or lack time, once they hit high school or college. All would be a prison for a horse like mine.


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## Connie Weirick

Horse12 said:


> ok...it's like this thread was made for me. I started riding again in my late 40s and joined a barn. My "friends" started pressuring me to buy a horse. I always wanted my own but thought I would take refresher lessons for a year or two first. I pictured looking for a calm, steady-eddy horse for low level dressage and trails.
> 
> Well, the owner said she had a friend who had a wonderful purebred Arab that had a junior show record (western pleasure) and I should take a look.....wait for it....."They would look out for me!" "Any horse can do trails and dressage is just ring work and he does that" "Riding him in a high wall closed round pen is all you need" "The friend took him out to ride and that shows you." "The horse will teach you everything you need to know"
> 
> Long story short, I put aside my own judgment and listened to those who said they knew and now own the horse. He is a wonderful horse but just too much for me. He is not forgiving as he is use to experienced riders only. He's goofy and attention grabbing, showy, and very, very smart. Which means he knows how much you really know.
> 
> Needless to say I soon left that barn and moved to a trainer who basically worked him for a year. Not for him, but to give me the time I needed to beef up my skills on a lesson horse. He is wonderful with the trainer, working on flying lead changes, etc.
> 
> I do see him almost every day, we do groundwork, and have recently started riding him while leaving him in training. I can ride him in the arena but he needs you to focus on him all the time and really be correct in your riding. He seems to know when my mind wanders even just slightly and I'm not paying attention to my riding. He needs to be ridden and worked every day. He needs, and is happy, when he has a job. He's 11.
> 
> Basically he's still above my skill level. I love taking lessons (3x a week) and learning classical dressage, and will continue the rest of my life, but really don't see me competing. It will also take a couple more years before I can even approach riding at the level my horse needs me to be at. To be honest, I'm not sure I want the pressure either. I already have a demanding job.
> 
> Bottom line. Do I stick it out? If I don't, how do I find him a good home? Money isn't the issue....I'm more worried about finding an experienced rider that will understand him.
> 
> I do care for him a great deal and have seen too many riders who "say" they are experienced riders...or are...but don't know the costs involved, or have the money, or time, to keep a horse like him. I also see a lot of younger riders who lose interest, or lack time, once they hit high school or college. All would be a prison for a horse like mine.


 
So glad to see this thread and that you have a good head. Our first barn for James was next to a Arab breeder. This is JMHO, a first time horse owner should avoid the Hotbloods - TB, Arab, etc unless the horse is well trained, older, preferrably a gelding. I love to LOOK at TBs, but would never own one. Because Im older and DD is younger.

Everyone at our barn was ranting that James a Registered 9 year old Paint was too much for DD, and she was 9. For the previous owner he was a handful, bucking, rolling, rearing, stalling, biting. I ground trained him with her, and she started slow with just lunging him, and being ew/ him everyday. Within 6 months hes like a big dog. He still hates aggressive men. He threw me onetime, that was my fault. He is now retired and our colt just turned two.

We bought 2 acres and since then he very mellow. They take time, money, and alot of love. And like humans- sometimes its not a good match.

Constance Weirick


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## Kotori

The horse I'm riding now is a little too much for me. She used to be horrible in ground manners, needing a stud chain and everything! Now she can be led, and will lower her head for the halter, but once you get on her, she wants to walk slow or stop. Only good thing is she stops square every time. I have great troubles in making her walk fast or trot. If I try to get her to trot, she will buck once or twice. 

If it was up to me, I'd get training for her, or consider selling her.

I'm glad it's not up to me. I'm only 2 rides in and haven't relaxed yet. My trainer, who I love and trust, thinks she's a good match for me, and I haven't seen anything to the contrary, even if we both need more training.


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## 5kiddos

I am in this situation currently and would welcome suggestions and/or opinions on what I should do. I purchased my first horse 4 months ago with the help of my trainer. To make a long story short, he has been in training for 3 months and still is not settling down to where I would like him to be. I am a beginner rider with 4 young children that I also want to be able to ride and be around this horse, but his ground manners are still pretty awful most of the time. He is okay under saddle, as long as I can get on as he is very jumpy, but very distracted and hard to keep focused. I don't think I can trust him with my kids at this point. I had him for almost 2 months before I even rode as all we did was groundwork. We are still mostly doing groundwork. My horse experienced friend thinks I should throw in the towel and look for a gentler horse that will be more enjoyment and less tears. I can still take lessons with my trainer at this point, but have not scheduled any training for him separately. Not sure I want to sink any more money in as there doesn't seem to be much improvement. My trainer comes highly recommended and I have seen great results with other horses, just not mine. Do I stick with it longer, or move on? The previous owner did say she would like first option to buy him back if it doesn't work out, but not sure if she will or not at this point. He is and 18 yr old arab/qh cross.


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## JustDressageIt

In my honest outsider opinion, cut your losses and move on.


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## LeroyBee

This is my current situation. My 2yr old gelding has gotten over his "untouched, shy stage" to his true stubborn, aggressive personality and it's just too much for me as a first time baby owner. I hate to let him go, as he has soooo much potential, but I just don't have the money for a good problem horse trainer and it'd be in our best interests if we went our separate ways. Thanks for this post, it reminded me that I'm not alone and there's no shame in selling a horse if it just isn't right for you.


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## Corporal

JustDressageIt--GREAT Original Post...and your others.
For anyone who has posted, "my horse is great, but_______"
I really wonder if you would be happy if that car you just bought did scary things to you...or won't stop, or switches gears unexpectedly?
The BEST horse that you own is the one that listens and you TRUST.
I cannot train everything out of a horse, so I've never kept horses that I couldn't train.
Selling a horse that doesn't listen to you is a smart thing to do. *I fall OUT of love with a horse that proves to be trouble.*
Your horse should get better and better and better with the training that your put into him or her.
You shouldn't make excuses and _settle_ for bucking, or bolting, or any other disrespectful behavior.


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## Rob55

This is a powerful statement. It gets me that so many horror stories are out there. I am thinking of buying a horse in a couple of years. Who wants to spend big money on something that can crush your dreams and your skull. Just the phrase "horse trader" has an bad reputation. I grew up with livestock. I've seen horses that I've just met that I would give a hug and jump right on. I've known and fed some for years I'd never turn my back on. I can't believe folks with no experience at all purchase a horse without any consultation. But they do.


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## princessfluffybritches

Horse12 said:


> ok...it's like this thread was made for me. I started riding again in my late 40s and joined a barn. My "friends" started pressuring me to buy a horse. I always wanted my own but thought I would take refresher lessons for a year or two first. I pictured looking for a calm, steady-eddy horse for low level dressage and trails.
> 
> Well, the owner said she had a friend who had a wonderful purebred Arab that had a junior show record (western pleasure) and I should take a look.....wait for it....."They would look out for me!" "Any horse can do trails and dressage is just ring work and he does that" "Riding him in a high wall closed round pen is all you need" "The friend took him out to ride and that shows you." "The horse will teach you everything you need to know"
> 
> Long story short, I put aside my own judgment and listened to those who said they knew and now own the horse. He is a wonderful horse but just too much for me. He is not forgiving as he is use to experienced riders only. He's goofy and attention grabbing, showy, and very, very smart. Which means he knows how much you really know.
> 
> Needless to say I soon left that barn and moved to a trainer who basically worked him for a year. Not for him, but to give me the time I needed to beef up my skills on a lesson horse. He is wonderful with the trainer, working on flying lead changes, etc.
> 
> I do see him almost every day, we do groundwork, and have recently started riding him while leaving him in training. I can ride him in the arena but he needs you to focus on him all the time and really be correct in your riding. He seems to know when my mind wanders even just slightly and I'm not paying attention to my riding. He needs to be ridden and worked every day. He needs, and is happy, when he has a job. He's 11.
> 
> Basically he's still above my skill level. I love taking lessons (3x a week) and learning classical dressage, and will continue the rest of my life, but really don't see me competing. It will also take a couple more years before I can even approach riding at the level my horse needs me to be at. To be honest, I'm not sure I want the pressure either. I already have a demanding job.
> 
> Bottom line. Do I stick it out? If I don't, how do I find him a good home? Money isn't the issue....I'm more worried about finding an experienced rider that will understand him.
> 
> I do care for him a great deal and have seen too many riders who "say" they are experienced riders...or are...but don't know the costs involved, or have the money, or time, to keep a horse like him. I also see a lot of younger riders who lose interest, or lack time, once they hit high school or college. All would be a prison for a horse like mine.


 
It will not be any fun in the future when you have to feel that your horse needs to be ridden every day. Pressure. Also that race to get where you feel experienced with him. I see far too many riders with money own horses that their trainer rides, they barely ride the horse they own, and you end up on the side of the ring being "amazed" by someone able to handle your horse.

Since you have the drive to take lessons and learn dressage, I think I would sell that horse , someone that can handle him, and look for a youngish horse that knows less than you, and doesn't do stupid things. Like a 5 year old that you can bring along and not feel this pressure to have to match a horse's requirement of a very experienced person. This is about fun .


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## princessfluffybritches

Last week I went to trim someone's horses. It turned out to be a couple in their 60's that bought 2 mares which were fine. Then they buy a stallion and end up with 2 babies. The baby that is 3yrs old now is way beyond their ability to handle her. She absolutely refuses to have her hind legs touched. She rears, kicks, bucks, and strikes. The husband needs a cane to walk with! 

None of the horses had had their feet cleaned out in months. It's not only about a trainer making the horse behave. It's about working with the horse daily to keep the training going. They're not capable. I told them so. They will get hurt.


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## thorson

I grew up with horses and feel I know how to ride and handle them very well. I hate when people use the terms intermediate and such because each horse is different just like each type of riding is different. 
But I had to admit last fall that a horse was too much for me. I only had her a few months but I know that sometimes no matter how good and how much time you spend with horses there can always be that one horse that is beyond you.


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## Tesslea

I have this Paso Mare, she was abused and I am working with her. I am already more than half in love with her but I've already told many... If I am unable to give her what she needs am able to help her I will not be greedy nor selfish... I will find someone who can. If they can't I will find someone who will allow her to live out the rest of her life as a girl of leisure if necessary. I would never hang onto a horse that I am unable to train properly and/or work appropriately. My soon to be son in law has a massive 3 year old registered paint gelding... green, spoiled and was raised as a pet. They want me to work him too. I've been balking on him because he is 15.5. When they mount him he starts to run off... dangerous. They want me to work him. I'm 49 and barely 5'6", I can't even get my foot in the stirrup when he is saddled and if I have trouble doing that I am not going to work this giant lap horse. I've told them they should sell him to someone who will turn him into the amazing horse he is capable of being... they are balking on that. Luckily, I have lots of horsey friends some possibly willing to train in exchange for leasing him. We'll see what happens.......


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## Elsa5

I'm 16 and bought my first horse 6 months ago. She was drugged. Went crazy after we brought her to a barn closer to us. Bucking, rearing, bolting, kicking, bitting, attacking people, running through fences. Later found out she was untouched until she was 5 years old. Unprofessionally started, than ran on barrels with no training. 

I had several people try working with her, no improvement. I cried a lot because I felt trapped. Tried selling her but I could never sell her to anyone that was interested. 

So I sent her to a trainer highly recommended by several friends. Got her back 43 days later no different than she was before, 300 lbs underweight and sick. Its my $655 regret plus the $340 vet bill. 

Finally I found a trainer that comes out to my barn twice a week and teaches me how to work with her. She has only been out 3 times and the difference is amazing. So amazing that I even brought her to 4h horse camp this weekend!!!!

Buying and keeping her was stupid and I could have been killed. But I dont regret it. That horse has taught me so much and has to made me a better rider. 

She still has a long ways to go. In 6 months I have already invested $1200 into her training. But im getting a lot out of it. And we have a strong bond because of it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KenzieAndPip

I got my first horse when I was 13 and she was a mess. She had a lot of problems and needed lots of care and attentions. We took her in because her owner was moving away and had completely neglected her and if she could not find a home, she would be left to waist away in a paddock full of cows for the rest of her life. Of course, for the first month it was impossible to get near her and it took a good half hour to catch her. She was so flighty on the lead and lunge line and panicy under saddle. We had her visited by a chyropractor twice (having her third and final in a few weeks) and a lot of her problems faded substantially. I continued to work with her and train her up. At one point, I found myself tearfully writing up a draft add for the local news paper but, as I'm sure a lot will say, I stupidly backed out. But I'm so glad that I carried on. 
Now, I'm 15 years old and my pony is as happy and healthy as she has ever been! No more chasing around the paddock and troublesome leading. She now either approaches me or waits calmly for me to easily pop the halter on, or even sling my jacket around her neck, and lead her on. Most if the time, I don't need to hold her, she just follows. She's the most well behaved and cooperative horse during ground work and does everything without hesitation. Under saddle, she is a calm, happy little girl. When I first got her, I wouldn't even ride her outside of the round yard. Now I can comfortably ride bareback in the open pasture. 
While, like any horse you come across, she has the odd buck or puts her ears back but she has never once bitten or kicked. While it took some time to get her cheeky riding habits under control, we managed to do it. Trial and error. I thought about what I was doing wrong and what I could change. Eventually, I worked out her buttons and we understand.
I feel like there can be a lot of age discrimination when it comes to this. Not every teenager is hopeless and incapable. And yes, while I was reluctant to let her go when I felt it was time, I still managed to gain an amazing little pony and I only have 6 - 7 years of experience under my belt. But I feel it's for that reason that I can admit my wrong doings as my methods are not cemented into my routine. I don't know, just my opinion.

If it weren't for Pippa, I wouldn't be half the horse person I am today. She taught me so much and it's been such a valuable experience. I wouldn't call her a bombproof beginners horse by any means but it shows what people can do when your mind is in the right place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DannyBoysGrace

I'll admit I am one of those people who was in over their heads.

I got my pony as a shared Christmas gift between my sister and I. She gave up on him quite quickly. We had only ever taken lessons, I was the first in our group to ride the new horses, Daisy was trouble but I loved the challenge.
We got our boy as a three year old, he was too strong and smart for us. He used to bang my knee on a metal bar, (I assume bite the bit as there was no stopping him) take off with us, try to throw us into trees, little rears, buck, I'll never forget him kicking me in the ribs when other horse escaped the field, he nearly kicked me in the head. I became very afraid of the pony and cried after ride. I didn't have the experience to deal with.
I believed if I told my dad to sell him, we wouldn't be able to get a new horse. Fast forward two years. Somebody was keeping a pony and an ex race horse at the same place and decided to step in. She gave us lessons and taught all the kids there to ride while correcting the ponies behaviors. She gave all of us confidence, lessons went on two years but were very limited as we had boggy fields and only a round pen (our arena) which wasn't very sandy. The larger ponies struggled cantering and we managed to set up, up to three jumps. He trusted so much that the first time he was ever introduced to a cart and harness, I drove him and was able to take him out on the road within a few days but then I had set him up for success with a make shift harness and anything that could be dragged.

Learning everything together caused us to grow a special bond, he would do most scary things as long as I asked it of him nicely. I knew how to approach him about that big scary monster that clearly wanted to eat him while other people couldn't get him through a little stream. I struggled with confidence jumping him outside of the arena but that's probably because I had the extra fear that falling could worsen my back (I had to give up on my dream of becoming a trainer because I suffer with my back and joints).

I am so glad we learned everything together, I could have been given a more mature, sensible beginners horse and competed but I am so glad it worked out the way it did.

Unfortunately, I had to sell him last January due to financial issues, we had just been improving our jumping and I had been hoping to show him but I wasn't in a healthy enough state mentally to fight for him. I was going through my worst depression yet and this pony had helped me so much over the years.

I have missed him everyday since and plan on buying him back.
So sometimes, it's well worth sticking with the scary one.


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