# Who will I buy: conformation critique request



## Kyro

Out of the horses I've been offered, I'm considering them so far:

Aghata:
6 year old, Tori horse, green broke and has a bit more work on her.
(The Liver chestnut mare)
Video of her being ridden, trot (weird website, sorry): Aghata << Toru.ee
Not much chrome on her, but she's a nice active horse that I like. Not sure that she's capable of extending her strides as much as I'd love to see though..


Aslan, 3y.o Trak x Tori (Estonian heavier-type warmblood), Siresire: Gribaldi (Rubenstein bloodlines).
(The chestnut horse with chrome)
IMHO the first picture doesn't do him justice. He looks much more fine in the video (his second ride): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jClkI5wWYsg&feature=youtu.be
And, he looks to be a rather sane horse, lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTm5HTLlA1o
I know he's a bit fat.. I'm hoping he isn't a lazy horse, as I'd prefer more energetic movers. I like his butt. I think he's slightly over at the knee? What would this mean for him?

Thoughts on their looks? I know they are both rather heavy.


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## Kyro

Forgot this guy, his name is Ravell and he's an Estonian warmblood. He has had a rider on his back a couple of times. I will have to search for a conformation shot though. So far only found these.

Opinions of the three?

Edit: found some conformation-ish shots.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I didn't watch the videos (it's a pain on my phone), but based on the pics, I MUCH prefer the mare. She's got nice clean lines, is alert without being looky, and has a lovely build.

The gelding looks like he got the trakehner upright conformation (especially the neck and legs) with the heavier body of the Tori (almost draft horse in quality).

I very much like the third one. He's cute and put together well. 

I wouldn't even bother with the second horse (the chestnut gelding). The mare and the bay gelding, I would look at, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kyro

Sorry, I managed to erase him somehow.. This was the forth light-chestnut small horsie with selle francais x arabian/native blood. Doesn't know what a saddle is yet, but owner said he's a reasonable horse and seems like he will be easy to train. 

I am thinking he 'might' be too small for me though. 

Thanks Drafty for the first opinion  Yeah, the picture makes him look that way, it scared me too at first. But if you have time could you check the video? He looks much better there.


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## PixiTrix

Personally I really like that mare but I would look at the last one too. I'm not much for the more drafty types so I would skip #2. I wish I could get the videos of the mare to work, I'd like to see how she moves.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I can't get the video of the mare to work.

Yes, the first chestnut gelding looks sane. I just really don't like his conformation. He just seems awkward, to me.

The last chestnut you posted (the little mix gelding) looks decent. Can very much see the selle francais in him, mixed with the deeper body of the native pony. 

Would really like to see the last chestnut and the little bay moving. And the mare, of course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kyro

I'm sorry I can't find any videos of the mare on youtube or other 'normal' sites. She moves quite well in the video IMO, fluid and active. Stops very nicely. My concern was her shoulder actually..do you think it might restrict her movement somehow?


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## DraftyAiresMum

It is rather upright now that I look at the pics better. It might make her a rougher ride and restrict how much she can bring up her knees when jumping.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee

I like the first horse - his front feet look really long in the toe and she'd move even better if she was trimmed properly
I don't like horse 2, 
horse 3 has poor quarters but a good jump and might improve with conditioning/work
Horse 4 would be a no from me based on that photo - has a topline that says possible sacroiliac problems in the past which could be a weakness


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## Kyro

Haha, well! I managed to use a screen-capturing program and recorded the whole video of the mare, so I uploaded it to youtube for you guys who couldn't see it  hope it works now! I hope it doesn't lag too much. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N-3F0G7BR8&feature=youtu.be


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## Kyro

Another video of the mare, running free for maybe 10 seconds? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-in5uSMgZlU&feature=youtu.be

Here is the gelding Ravell, one of the few rides he has had: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EOzqq082yk&feature=youtu.be


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## tinyliny

horse 1, 2, and 3 are all nice horses. horse 4 has dropped fetlocks. a no.

I like horse 1 a lot. but I liked the confor of horse 3 the best. depends on your comfort level with a green horse. that first mare looks like a really steady horse, too.

you sure got some nice horses in Estonia!


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## DraftyAiresMum

After seeing the video, I very much like that mare. She's a little bit short-strided with that upright shoulder, but it doesn't limit her nearly as much as I expected it to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kyro

Tinyliny, if these are good horses, you should see what real money can buy here! 

Thanks everyone. I won't buy the chestnut then and I don't believe I like the little chestnut gelding either, so they will be a no. Even though I did love the chrome on the second guy D: 

I actually hoped that you guys would think well of the mare. I've thought about her the most and she seems like a horse I could 110% surely handle. Do you think she would be good for medium level dressage? 

Well, the bay gelding is labeled 'hot' in the ad... I dislike his neck a lot. It's so _thin_..probably with some work it will improve but it won't be as good as the mares. But I like his movement and color. I think I could handle him, as I won't be training him alone. I've got experience with hot horses. But is he better than the mare? Hmm..


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## tinyliny

it really depends on temperment , at this point. the first mare has a slightly short , thick neck. but she moves cute. I don't know how high of a level you could go. the bay is "fancier", and might have a more attractive conformation. to me, when it's between two nice horses, it comes down to heart, and temperment, and do you want a mare or a gelding?


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## Kyro

I think for now I have to decide in favor of the mare. I will be waiting a bit more and searching, maybe something else pops up just to be sure. Though, I like her as she is calm enough that one day, I could very possibly even let my boyfriend ride her. I will go see her this Sunday and see how it goes 

There is one _but_ with her though: she is terrified of being alone. The owner told me that she's OK while she's with a person - say you were saddling her in the stable and no other horses were there. But if you left her in the stable all alone, she'd go crazy. I'm thinking this could be an issue when it comes to trailering, but other than that, maybe it's not that big of a deal? She goes on trail rides alone and is fine.


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## falling

As soon as I saw that liver chestnut mare, I was in love. I'm so glad you've decided to give her a second look! I'm totally bias towards that kind of conformation- I love her neck and the way she carries herself. She also looks like a much easier ride then the bay gelding, and she looks absolutely gorgeous running free. 

I'm not sure how much a problem that whole alone thing would cause. You could paddock her with other horses and whatnot, and if the problem won't go away, trailer her with other horses, too. I've never heard of a problem like that and I'd be interested to see what other people say about it, in terms of retraining etc.


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## Elana

I am going to go against the flow here. I like the Chrome Gelding (#2) better than the mare. The mare has an upright shoulder and looks like she might be a little back at the knee (if you are going to jump that is a big no no). The Mare's neck ties in a bit low to the chest and she is built quite down hill, though in the videos she does manage to come across as a balanced horse. 

The Chrome Gelding is substantive. He has decent scope over that fence and is very strong backed. I love his bone. His hocks are not way higher than his knees and his stiffle is the same height as his elbow. He is balanced. His neck ties in correctly and his build is level.. possibly a bit up hill. His shoulder is a bit steep and it restricts his front end some as you can see by the level of his forearms over the fence. That said, he folds his front and is using himself over that fence, so has scope. I REALLY like him.

Ravell has the best shoulder and neck of the lot but he is built down hill and is a bit weak through the coupling with a peak of rump set a bit far back. his hind leg is a bit weak in construction as you can see him over the fence.. he trails his hind legs out a bit and is not as scopey as the second horse. His riding picture shows how he moves and he is forehand heavy. While not unusual in a new to saddle horse, I believe it is his natural way of going. 

The last horse looks a bit weedy to me. His hind leg is over straight and he is dropped in pasterns.

The mare is not a bad choice, but the gelding with the chrome is a better choice. JMO.


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## Kyro

This makes things interesting, as I value your opinion very highly, Elana - I was actually hoping you would chime in sometime to this discussion. 

Would you see the chrome gelding doing dressage? I, personally, did like him - that's why I posted his pictures in the first place. But I admit, in the first picture, he does look quite wonky (or he's just fat and in his growing phase). And it got me thinking whether or not he seems like good material.

To make matters _more difficult_, I will be going to look at yet another horse on Thursday :lol: She's a warmblood, I only have foal pictures of her sadly though she's 5 years old, still unsaddled. I trust the breeder so I'm going to go and see. 

I decided I won't be buying Ravell, that's for sure. Buying him just doesn't feel right. 

So I'll be keeping both the mare and the gelding in my perspective for now.


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## Kyro

Just because it's cruel if I say I have foal pictures and don't show you guys


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## Kyro

I feel like I'm being offered too many horses. I'm a very indecisive person and almost each new horse makes me think things over. I think I have been offered at least.. 17 horses in two days?! Maybe I should just stop and stick with what I've found so far...

I have really grown to like the first mare, maybe it's because you guys like her as well or because she reminds me of my first favorite-lesson horse.. I don't know. It would be so simple to buy her, as I could already start riding and doing things I love with her. She is 6, ideally I'd like her to be younger.. I am concerned about her jumping abilities - not that I would be a big showjumper, but I would like her to be able to clear a medium fence without much problems. I like that she's energetic, yet calm enough that I can trust her. 

If I were to take a young horse, who is still green, it would take time until I can start riding. But the progress can be fun, teaching groundwork etc.. I also like the foal I'm going to go see. Just because she has chrome :lol: and I remember when she was born, I was in awe of her and wished she could be mine (be careful what you wish for!). And she has a rather good pedigree. 

Probably not taking the chestnut gelding though. Won't say 100% certainly yet.. The owner said he is a very calm horse. I fear he might be too 'calm'. I like my horses in the 'let's go!' mode..

I'm just thinking out loud  I will probably re-read this thread many times and think about what I've written and what you guys have advised.


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## Horseychick87

I'd maybe go look at the gelding (with chrome) he seems a good sort and if he's in work he'll become fit and maybe more energetic. You can at least go see him in person and see for yourself, photo's and pictures will only tell you so much.

The same with the mare, give her a try, she seems a good sort and will likely work well when fit.

I love those foal pictures I just want to go 'Squeeee' when I see that face.

Good luck, you've got lots of awesome horses over there.


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## MaximasMommy

I think you're going to get the first mare. 6 is a good age! Still lots of years left but a little bit of a brain!


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## Eolith

I just wanted to add that while conformation is certainly worth considering, it certainly isn't everything. My family took in a mare knowing full well that she has numerous conformational "faults". We took her because we knew that she had a wonderful temperament, and because we discovered that she moved out very nicely despite the very conformational flaws that many would argue make it impossible for her to move well.

She's nothing super special to look at when she's standing in the paddock, but slap a saddle on her and suddenly she looks like poetry in motion. I fully expect that she has all of the heart and the talent to do well up to mid-level dressage despite all of her conformational flaws -- and when it comes right down to it I'm just completely in love with her mind!

Moral of the story: definitely follow your heart. It sounds like that mare might work out well for you.


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## Elana

That little filly (baby) is showing sickle hocked tendencies. "Tops may come, but bottoms never!" She has nice front legs. For the rest look at the sire and dam.


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## arrowattack09

I'm with Elana as well... I much perfer the chestnut gelding with the chrome over the rest. I find that the liver chesnut mare has a steep shoulder, and her movement in front is restricted- always will be. She is not built to have long beautiful movement. I think that overall the chesnut is built the best. And I am impressed with his reaction to the banging and moving around that the rider did on his back, He also has nice bone through his leg.


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## Kyro

I got offered another Tori horse today. Her name is Aurelia, she is still green, 5 years old. Don't know much about her, I attached two pictures that the owner had. I will be visiting her on Sunday too, as the breeder has more different variations of her.. 
Gosh, the amount of horses that could be good is _huge_. 

Somebody also sent me this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaZVvPdIIRo&list=UUkdlursQj6t7ReXtY7kQnUw He is slightly over my price range, though he looks like he'd be worth the money. I don't like how much behind the vertical he is, but that's fixable. I'd also let him move a bit more freely. But that's just me. 

Oh, and I will be seeing the 'foal' I had pictures of tomorrow  I hope I can take a nice and square picture of her too.


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## Horseychick87

I want to move to Estonia...what are your winters like? LOL.

Seriously though, the horses you have been showing us as awesome.


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## Regula

How old is that grey horse in the video? he looks like he's ridden not just behind the vertical, but compressed in the head and neck, which makes him short strided behind. It almost looks like the rider is a bit afraid of letting him go forward (maybe so he doesn't rush the jumps?). 

I like young horses ridden forward and then gradually collected from back to front. Riding a horse backwards like that creates many problems. So, given that your focus is dressage, I think I'd pass based on the riding in that video.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kyro

Horseychick, haha thanks! I have been offered not-so-great horses as well but I'm showing only the ones I like. Our winters are...sometimes pretty cold! It's very normal that it's -8C (18F), sometimes going below -15C(5F) And when snow starts coming, it won't stop! Here's a describing picture 









But overall, I imagine it's about the same as living in Canada. The nature is amazing and the summers are cute, usually +68F 


Regula, yes that's what I thought too. But Wouldn't you think that would be easily corrected with the right riding? Or because he is being restricted like that, he might be a bit crazy once he does get to run more freely?
I like that you discouraged me from thinking about him too much though, as he was out of my price range anyway and it would have been a pain to try and get him somehow! I just posted him as he looked like one of the more typical warmbloods that would easily 'take me somewhere'.


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## Kyro

Oh I forgot you asked about the grey horses age, he's a 5 year old. (And the last chestnut mare I posted she's 4, I accidentally posted her as a year older) But I think I won't be pursuing the grey gelding. Sure, I think he can be an amazing horse but I'm afraid he'd be 'too much horse' ... I've ridden hot-strung temperamental warmbloods before, of course, but IME they're a bit too crazy for me. I'd like a horse who has some nice movement, but is a sweetheart and wants to please without throwing a fit every day. Some people like the thrill of riding difficult horses, I prefer a horse with a bit of a temperament but still sane.


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## Elana

That Chestnut is SEVERELY back at the knee AND sickle hocked. 

What video of a grey? I could not find it.


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## Kyro

Elana, this was the grey: LINK I don't have pictures of him sadly. 

I will be going to see one young horse in a couple hours. Taking my camera with me so I can get some good pictures of her! Hope the owner doesn't mind it, as she is often quite grumpy when it comes to taking photos of her horses. This is my first time going to see a horse like this, I'm a bit exited


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## Elana

The grey is a bit weak through the coupling and is also a bit knock knee'd in front. At least his hocks and knees are not very different in height. He is lean and long.. not substantive IMO. Still like the Chestnut gelding with all the chrome the best.. and the chrome has nothing to do with it. I personally prefer less splash and dash in color and the best horse color IMO is a plain bay.. maybe a little white on the face.


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## Horseychick87

I've only seen our wimpy southern snow, nothing to brag about really...more like be ashamed of, LOL.
I'm used to winters in the 40-50*F range (4.4-10*C) I don't know how well I'd handle it.

Yeah, but the horses you picked to look at are pretty good looking. I'm super picky so that says something that I'm drooling over those pictures.

Good luck with your search, I can't wait to hear who you've picked out.


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## Kyro

Horseychick, haha that's pretty good too  I'd love to switch with you weather-wise! Our horses are OK, we have a lot of imported blood from Germany, Netherlands and Denmark - there are some amazing stallions coming from those countries. 


So I went to see a horse today. I found out that the filly I had pictures of was actually sold last year  I misunderstood. The BO showed me another horse. The mare was a really friendly in-your-pocket personality. I did a small clip of her moving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwVaQigX4DM&feature=youtu.be
Attached her picture.

Now, she is much more temperamental than I'm used to. If she already had some training on her, I'd give her a go. But she doesn't even know how to lead well.. and she's 5 years old. I think her movement is awesome and even though she's a bit fat, looks like a good solid horse. But her price is much higher than I was aiming for. Do you think she would be worth some good money? 

I have to decide many things..and be fair with myself on how much experience I actually have, what are my capabilities. I'm thinking that training this bay mare would perhaps prove quite difficult. But not impossible.


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## Kyro

Opinions on the bay mare? I think she is OK conformation-wise. Her head could be prettier though..a bit tied in at the knee perhaps? Wouldn't say she's post-legged. Nice back & quarters. Shoulder a tad laid-back? She's a rather heavy-boned horse (maybe doesn't look like it in the picture, but she really seemed like it when I saw her). I bet she has lots of strength, too (not sure if that's useful on not). Again, since she's out of my price range, I'm _very_ uncertain about actually buying - but I love to practice my conformation skills so maybe someone can tell me if I'm right about her?


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## Kyro

Okay, I just have to post about her, too. She is Trak x Hann, which somehow makes her an Estonian sporthorse :lol: She is well trained, has competed in some dressage, eventing and showjumping with medium results. 8 years old. 

She seems like she's back at the knee? Any other things you see wrong with her? Other than the fact that she's a bit too old for what I was looking for at first..


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## Elana

The bay mare is very tied in at the knee and straight through hocks, a bit weak behind and fat. Her shoulder is a bit steep and she is camped under in front.

The black is back at the knee, sickle hocked and very long through the coupling. He also has some crookedness to his front legs looking from front to rear.

I again refer you back to the Chestnut with Chrome as first choice, and the first mare you posted as second choice. LOL


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## Foxhunter

I too agree with Elana. 
The mare is nice enough but not enough front on her for me. 

The chrome gelding seems a very good temperament, and as Elana says, shows a very good bascule over the fence. 

He would be the one for me by a long way.


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## Kyro

You don't like anything anymore! :lol: I'm kidding - I'm glad of everyones' advice, as I personally didn't see anything wrong with the black mare except for her being back at the knee. 

I will give you guys two more horses. I think these are the last ones. But I can't post the other right now, the owner will send me pictures later. So without further ado.. 

Introducing, Oggy (I would have to change his name for sure!) palomino gelding, 3.y.o, rather calm temperament, Tori horse yet again. I think his shoulder is, again, his weak point and his neck is rather short and..almost a swan-neck? His legs seem good to me.


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## Foxhunter

I don't like the last horse at all. Straight shouldered and looks to be very hollow.


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## Kyro

Can you explain him being hollow? You lost me there.. as of course, I like his color and he actually managed to get rather good points in his examination (almost like a halter class: judges score your horses overall looks, moving ability, temperament and conformation).

Can you say how the liver chestnut mare is better than the black mare I posted on the last page? I actually like her quite a bit.


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## Larissa

I like the first mare you posted the best. She is very cute, and seems forward, yet sane. Maybe she won't be the best jumper, but she could certainly surprise you.


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## Elana

the palomino is also a weak horse. He has an extremely straight hind leg and is weak through the stifle. He also has a very large difference between the height of his nicely placed knees and his way too high hocks. He will travel through life down hill and disjointed for that reason... 

again.. go back to the beginning.. Chrome Gelding #1 and Chestnut mare #2............

BTW Back at the knee is a serious future soundness fault (especially coupled with tied at the knee) and I avoid that flaw like the plague.


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## Foxhunter

Kyro said:


> Can you explain him being hollow? You lost me there.. as of course, I like his color and he actually managed to get rather good points in his examination (almost like a halter class: judges score your horses overall looks, moving ability, temperament and conformation).
> 
> Can you say how the liver chestnut mare is better than the black mare I posted on the last page? I actually like her quite a bit.


Colour, for me, is the last factor I take into consideration except with cremellos or any other pink skinned horses and I wouldnt touch them with a barge pole! 

I was in a rush when I first posted and again agree with Elana. What I meant by hollow is if you look the under muscle of his neck is more built up than the crest, he holds his head high and in the top picture his back is hollowing.
I don't like the thickness of his jowl nor the shape of his head, sideways on. My instinct tells me he could be a bit wooden headed. 

I am one of those people who goes by instinct. If I went to see him and he gave me that impression I would be polite and walk away without seeing him do anything!


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## Kyro

Foxhunter, thank you for clarifying that. Now I see why you said that and agree. He is indeed hollow and if I'm honest with myself, if he were a different color I wouldn't even look at him much. I'm just a color genetics lover and I guess that's why I was eyeing him - you see bays and chestnuts everywhere, but not as many others. 

Could you/Elana/someone else also tell me a bit more about that black mare I posted earlier? I somehow have a good feeling about her, even though she does seem to be a bit sickle hocked..how would this affect her? 

And don't worry, so far I am definitely going to see the first two horses  I like the liver chestnut mare the best so far (also the black mare). The gelding I'm having my doubts about, but I will still go get to know him.


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## Elana

She has a hind leg.. like a dog but with a high placed hock. It is great on a dog and weak on a horse!

This horse is first and foremost down hill. She will travel on her forehand and be difficult to collect and is a poor choice for dressage. If she is forced to collect (and that will be about how it goes because of her build) she will be prone to developing curbs and spavins.. bog spavin at first and eventually bone spavin. 

Her shoulder is a bit steep and the point of shoulder lays low with the humerus from point of shoulder to elbow laying nearly flat. This will limit her front end reach and will limit how far she brings her knees up over fences. In addition to this her neck ties in low to her chest which is a bit pigeon breasted. She is very back at the knee and is a poor prospect for jumping. 

Her coupling (loin behind the saddle to the peak of croup) is long and weak. She is wasp waisted. Her stifle is placed low, but too far back. her buttock is naturally weak and her gaskin is light. Her entire rear end lacks angulation making it a weak structure and lacking in power. She is weedy. the entire rear end needs to be moved forward and her peak of croup is way to far back which is where her weak rear end structure begins. 

Drawing attached.


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## Kyro

Thank you Elana for showing that! It was _very_ nice that you drew and pointed her faults out throughoutly. I see why she'd be a bad pick.. I'll try to remember everything and notice these problems myself in the future. Hope I didn't annoy you, I really didn't see much faults with her at first. I stand corrected though. 

For now I can't say anything else, I'll just be waiting for Sunday. Hoping everything goes well


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## Foxhunter

If I was looking for a horse in Elana's area I would send her out in front of me! I have the good feeling if she called and said it was worth looking at it would be!

I said about colour before - colour of the horse does not win you dressage points nor make froma clear round in jumping!


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## Elana

As said, go and ride that chrome gelding. He has scope if you want to jump and balance if you want to do Dressage. I look at him and think he is very solid and versatile. He could go three day if he has the speed.. he certainly has the substance. He could go as far as you can take him. He might not be International material.. but that depends a lot on training and money as much as the horse. He is really that good IMO. 

The first mare is good.. but does not have the front end to go as far as the gelding. 

If that chrome gelding had a lot of color.. was a black or a paint.. you could not afford him. Color AND conformation come together rarely and when they do most of us would need to rob a bank to buy the horse. They are that rare. 

And he has some flash with those white legs.. so unless he would not pass the vet or looks bad in person (and some do).. there is where I would start. 

Just my opinion. It's your wallet.


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## anndankev

I'm going back to page one to look, but I thought the jumping pic was of his sire ?

Nope, It is him. I like him too.


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## clumsychelsea

Subbing. This thread is really interesting.


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## Kyro

The chrome chestnut gelding in the first page, his name is Aslan and yes, he is in the jumping picture as well. I attached a couple pictures of his real sire, Arrivederci (who is a Trakehner) just because he is a real nice horse IMO  Aslans' dam is a Tori horse who is slightly thicker/heavier than the sire, but color-wise is exactly the same only a bit lighter. I have to admit, I do like the sire a lot! Maybe the chestnut boy will grow on me. Though, if I am honest..my heart is telling me 'no' about him. I just don't..feel anything about buying him. I know the gelding is good but.. I don't know. I will see him Sunday so I can see if that feeling changes.


































Foxhunter, I too value Elanas advice highly. That's why I'm at odds with myself about the two horses. But when I see the gelding and feel like he's the one for me, I will snatch him up. No doubt about it. But if I feel that he's not the horse I'd want to spend my days with, I have to pass, even though he is an amazing boy. I can't buy a horse just because he's good if I don't really love him myself. If I love the mare, that's the way I'll go.


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## Foxhunter

You do have to have a feel for a horse, I do agree with that! However always go look with an open mind. 

I found a horse for a friend. I knew he would suit her 100% but she wanted a 15.2 dark bay/ brown mare. This was a 16.1 liver chestnut gelding. 

When I first saw him he looked like a quality plodder but under saddle he was a different horse. I popped him around a 4' course. Took him out for a rode jumped rails. Hedges, ditches and gates. He was a joy to ride. 
I persuaded friend to go see amd ride him. She almost walked away when she first saw him but, knowing me and having travelled so far she decided to have a ride. 
She bought him subject to vet, got him home a week later and kept him until he was 36. 

So be open!


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## Elana

Well, since I never bought a horse based on emotion (including rescues) I guess I will let this thread go. 

Certainly no one wants to be "over horsed" and that is always a mistake. That said, I spent years and years of my own horses being the result of me scratching around and trying to get something really good out of what I could afford. Other people's horses were always much better because clients had money.. I did not. 

I guess if I had the chance to get a well conformed horse with a good mind I would do it an work it all out later. If it did not work then I would sell the horse after training him to a level where I could make a few dollars. 

Good luck with your search. I hope you find what you want!


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## Foxhunter

Elana - I too have had many horses through my hands, some mine and even more of other people's. 

I am sure that you have had some that you have a ral 'feel' for. Might not be the most talented, the best looking, the kindest but there is a connection which you sense right away? 

I well remember being out Fox Hunting when one of the hunt members arrived riding a new horse. A big bay, well up to weight and not at all the sort of horse I would have looked at for me. However, the moment I set eyes on this horse I really, really liked him. 
Three or four years passed before he came to me as a livery. Every time I had seen him I felt something. When he came to me there were many problems, he was one of the nappiest horses I had ever had through my hands. He was impossible to clip, was very prone to colic and had a 'leg' 
The moment I rode him I knew he was special to me. 
Of all the horses I have had and ridden, if I could have anyone of them back, it would be him.

Emotions should not come into it, instinct should.


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## rbaker0345

All of the pictures you have posted are of beautiful horses and I would have a problem picking if I were you. I spent many years in 4-H and went to nationals for horse judging. What I can tell you about the pictures you have posted is that they are all somewhat long in the back and short in the croup/hip which will cause them trouble in tracking up if you want to ride higher level dressage tests. The bay that was in one of the original photos was a little better in this respect but his shoulder was very upright (didn't even look at his pasterns or hocks, but his shoulder was glaringly vertical) and his neck was rather short. When I look for a horse, first I picture a box and try to fit the horse into it. a box has four equal sides and if the horse fits into this "box" this makes it more balanced and presents less of a chalange for it in higher level dressage movements and also makes the chance of arthritis and spavin related changes less in the years to come. Second, you want to look at the angles on the horse. A draft type horse will have a shorter, more angled croup but on all horses, shoulder and pastern should come as close to a 45% angle as possible. If you're not looking to do anything more than ride the horse for fun and maybe do some lower level stuff, I really like the quiet nature of the first horse and the arab cross (height means nothing to me, I ride a 13.1h pony over 4ft fences, its my last consideration- though, I might add that I am only 5ft3in).


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## rbaker0345

Of all the pictures posted, the trakhener stallion above has the best conformation, though he doesn't fit into a perfect box (and who does) he is still very well balanced.


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## CandyCanes

rbaker0345 said:


> Of all the pictures posted, the trakhener stallion above has the best conformation, though he doesn't fit into a perfect box (and who does) he is still very well balanced.


The stallion is only the sire of one of the ones she is looking to buy. I doubt that stallion is for sale.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rbaker0345

Sorry, I know that. I was just using him as an example. Didn't mean any confusion.


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## Kyro

rbaker0345 & CandyCanes, the sire is indeed quite a horse - maybe someday I will have enough money to own a stallion like that  Sadly/Luckily, he isn't for sale so I won't be tempted!


So I have gone and seen some horses today, 700km around Estonia! I was so excited I hope I didn't offset the horses somehow..but I tried my best to be calm :lol:

Firstly, I visited, tacked up & rode the chrome gelding. He is a bit over 16hh. He is a nice and social boy, liked to get scratched! I mounted and started to walk him around on the lunge, he did throw his head A LOT and disliked the idea of moving forward eg. into trot. That's all correctable and understandable though, as he is only a teenager. We did manage some nice trot after a while. But I have to say..I still didn't feel like he would be my first horse. We just didn't click. I'm sorry Elana, I feel like you've offered lots of good advice about him and don't want to dissapoint.. Yet even though I don't have lots of money and_ should_ buy what the best option is, I still follow my heart. Based on my gut feeling, I'm going to say _no_ to him.

Then, I went to a professional dressage stable. They said they have two horses in my budget: one who just happened to have my last name! What a coincidence! Faith? The reason for his cheap sale was that he's completely wild. Very curious - will approach people in the pasture, but won't let anyone touch him. Hot and young, a 3y.o warmblood, over 16hh. Has _very nice_ movement. If I would have more experience with starting horses, I'd buy him. But he seems like the unforgiving sort - I would have to do everything perfectly with him. I don't think my experience level is high enough to train him..I'm still thinking a bit.. He's amazing, yet I don't feel I could handle 'that much horse'. I don't want to ruin a lovely future prospect. 
I attached a video of him, here he's running with a mare (the smaller and short-strided one) who was also for sale. Introducing, Leon:





Picture attached. 


Lastly, I went to the other side of Estonia to see the liver chestnut mare, Aghata. She was a bit smaller than Aslan and Leon - maybe 15'6hh. When I saw her, something just lightened up inside me. She was such a sweet girl and the owner said she was amazed that she took a liking to me so fast - said that some other riders have been trying her out and she has folded her ears at them right away. The owner seemed genuinely surprised.
I tacked her up without any problems and took her to the arena. She didn't like to stand still while mounting, that needs work. She is still green, but very willing and didn't seem phased by anything - even when a motorbike drove past creating quite a stir with the other horses. But she still had very active and energetic movement, I didn't have to push her constantly forward. She sometimes did go into the 'verymuchspeedy' mode, but I managed to get everything under control quickly. Overall, I was really pleased with her. Very, very pleased. 'I think I'm going to buy her if she passes the vet.exam pleased' 

I will post the video of me riding Aghata tomorrow, as my internet is exceptionally slow today and my vids are generously taking their time uploading..


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## DraftyAiresMum

Yay!! I don't know why, but I just had a good feeling when I saw that liver chestnut mare. Fingers crossed that she passes the vet check with flying colors!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rbaker0345

Wow, after seeing that snow, now I know why all of those horses look so thick and sturdy. I have two arabs and I'm not used to such bone. The Black from a couple posts back is moving way on his forehand and he is a bit sickle hocked. The youngster that you liked so much sounds like an injury waiting to happen, plus his pasterns look a bit short and upright to me. I like the first mare. She's a bit long but at least she moves honestly and seems very quiet. It never hurts to keep looking though. A good horse is worth waiting for.


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## Kyro

Small clip of me riding Aghata (please excuse my too-forward leg, I was horrified when I saw this and will try to make it better. Maybe it was the saddle as well..):







rbaker0345, I have thought about waiting some more - that maybe I shouldn't be so impatient. Sometimes I think that I have been waiting long enough, scrolling the 'for sale' horse ads for almost a year now. I really do feel good about the mare though.. even tho I do second guess a bit, regarding the dressage gelding Leon that I posted earlier. But that's more because I feel like I _should_ get the best horse offered and he would be good as a_ future_ prospect.

Also, as you can see from the video, IMHO I'm not a very advanced rider. I have very soft hands..and fairly OK balance. But I have lots training ahead of me. Even though I've read a whole bunch of books, watched numerous videos on dealing with horses, starting them - and of course, helped start them too - I still don't feel 100% ready to take on a challenge, a green untouched horse. When I see myself in the videos, I see so many mistakes.. When it comes to teaching groundwork tho, I'm sure I could handle that. Just the riding part, the first rides.. I'm talking about this while thinking of Leon, the dressage gelding. If I would have a couple years more experience, then I'd be more confident to take him on.


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## falling

My goodness, you're going to have no problems getting her moving forward, are you! Love her as much as I thought I would.

Don't be too hard on yourself in terms of riding, yes your leg was a little bit forward, but you righted yourself in the trot. It'll just take a bit of conscious thought to get it back to where it should be. 

I really hope the vet check goes well!


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## Kyro

Great news! The vet will examine her tomorrow morning, I was lucky, as he was going to the same stable anyway and wouldn't mind checking Aghata too  Hoping everything goes well..


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## Regula

I'm glad things are working out for you!
I have to agree with you, she looks very nice. As for the forward, I'd much, much rather have a horse that goes forward willingly than one that you need to push. Especially a young horse that needs to be pushed to trot (like the Aslan gelding) would be an absolute no-go for me.
I think you are making the right choices 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horseychick87

Wow, I can't believe I missed so much, I just had to go away for the weekend...

Glad to see you've tried both the mare and the gelding, you never quite know until you meet them in person.

Although the gelding might be the 'better' prospect, I really do like something about that mare.


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## tinyliny

I thought you rode just fine, considering you are riding a strange horse, at a strange place in a strange saddle. the mare was rushing a bit, and that was putting you a bit behind the balance, and I would guess the saddle and stirrup length might have some to do with that, too. but, you stayed steady and after a bit, you got with the mare. 

had you fiddled around a lot and tried to slow her and make HER get with YOU, she would have been more upset, but you just kind of waited and she settled a bit. this is good.


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## Kyro

Regula, horseychick & Tinyliny, thanks for the support! I'm really hoping everything goes well. I feel she's the right horse. I'm already thinking about possible tack options, turnout rugs, saddle pad colors :lol: I'm quite lucky, as it turns out her rug size is the exact same as my last lease horse, so I don't have to buy everything as I have some right-size stuff already! 

In regards to my riding.. I will always try my best to be better. I have noticed my leg being too forward riding other horses too. I used to think it was because of the saddle, but am not sure anymore. Will have to do some stirrup-less work once I have a horse, haha. Regarding Aghata, she was rushing after the canter in the previous video, as she got a bit excited over it  Actually when we began, she was a rather steady girl:






Edit: And of course, thank you falling! I'ts lovely to hear your input too (And Elana, Foxhunter and everyone who has given their advice so far!)


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## falling

I love her so much. Please keep us updated!


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## Kyro

Hello all..

I've just got a call from the vet. Aghatas' backleg is lame. The vet did some flexing and moving tests, felt her all over and checked her heart&lungs, otherwise she's fine. But he said that the lameness seemed to be something heavily worth considering (of course it is). He said he could run some more tests next week, to see what's causing it. It could be serious - or, it won't be. 
To tell you the truth, I'm devastated. I started to really love her already..now I'm here thinking that maybe she won't even be rideable  ..of course, I'll try not to think like that. I'm going to talk to the owner, maybe we can split the costs of having some more tests made on 'why exactly' is she lame and what would the treatment be, etc. The whole examination was filmed so I think I can even upload a video here about it.. but I have to wait for a girl to send me the vids. If it ends up being something serious, I don't think I'll buy her  

Call me a softie, but this really makes my heart hurt so much..It's something very minor, it _has_ to be.


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## Elana

Beware of buying a lame horse that is this young. Hock lameness especially. No point in buying a horse that is a money pit and spends most of its time unrideable and costing you vet bills.

I never allowed myself to love a horse until after the vet exam and the horse was through the 30 day trial period. It was all business.

Which hind leg? She really does not move all that free in the videos. Right hind?


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## Elana

Another thing I notice in the video.. her left front leg is a bit crooked and she paddles on that front leg (throws her hoof to the outside).


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## Kyro

People have told me that I shouldn't get attached so easily.. I should take that more seriously.

Elana, yes the right hind if I remember correctly. Luckily, I have stumbled upon a great vet who has a very good reputation and seems to have lots of experience with lameness. But yes, if the lameness isn't easily treatable, I will have to harden my heart and let her be.


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## Foxhunter

Unless it was something like an abscess in the foot, I wouldn't want to have any part in having further tests done. She is not your horse so why should you pay out for expensive tests when the responsibility isn't yours?

You pay a vet to give a soundness test and this mare failed. 

I don't think she moves that well so, I would walk away.


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## Kyro

But what if it's something very easily treatable and she will be better? Or, if I were to speak with the owner, that perhaps she will fund her vet bills herself and if it turns out to be something very small, I could still buy her maybe for a discount, after her leg has gotten better. Though, that could take some time. 

I know she doesn't move that well, but I'm stubborn and I'm going to say that I like her. Maybe it's bad, but maybe in the end she will be worth it (I'm not saying I'm going to buy her, just that I still have hope).


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## Foxhunter

Look at it logically.
Young horse lame behind - why?
The vet couldn't find anything obvious, so it is deeper, hock, stifle, fetlock. 

If she cannot take what little work she has done without showing lameness from something hidden then it is unlikely when you really start to work her, she is going to stay sound.

I am not being mean or nasty but you are falling into the inexperienced buyer's most common error.

You looked at many horses, some good, some not so. You gave me the impression that before you had even tried any that you wanted the mare subject to her not bucking you off! 
Now she is unsound and failed the vet so you are wanting to know what is wrong so you can say, "she will come sound," which she will *but* will she remain sound? Will you have big vet bills ahead? Will you start to work her ready for competition and she goes lame? 
No one can answer these questions, not even the vet. It will only show when she is in work.

Up to you, as Elana said, it is your money. 

Personally, and I have bought many lame horses, this one I would pass. The lame ones I bought I could see the reason for the lameness.


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## Kyro

I am beginning to accept the fact that the probability of me buying her is slim, it's just difficult emotionally. 

Foxhunter, you made very good points in your post. I agree that she wouldn't be a very reliable mount if these problems came up every now and then, including possible expensive vet costs. 

When I was searching for a horse, I looked with both my mind and heart. She just struck a chord and yes, I did like her, as you pointed out. But I think I might have come across as too inexperienced (even though I am, lets face it, I haven't bought a horse before) - Still, I wouldn't have bought her under no circumstances if she would've had some serious issues. If the lameness was very minor and the vet would've said so himself, I would have considered buying. Now, being that both of you pointed out that this is far more serious than I originally thought, I will reconsider and put my emotions aside for a while. 

I would not want an unsound horse. I want to be able to train, compete and not worry about lameness all the time. For now, I have to think about it. I just have to get my thoughts together. Probably will have to find the strength to say no.



On a side-note - did anyone look at my recently posted bay gelding who was trotting in the video? Any glaring faults about him? If I say no to the mare, then the search continues..


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## Foxhunter

It was hard to say about the bay but he looks a bit roached backed to me.
I will also say that to take on a young unhandled horse is probably going to be a bit much for you. If you send him away to be broken then that has to be added to his cost and, a big young horse can be in need of someone with a more secure seat and leg. (I am not trying to put you down, just observation.)

I quite like the mare in with the gelding. 

I have a question for you - how come so many of you from Estonia, Latvia et al all write English so well?


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## tinyliny

actually, I , too, liked the little mare who was trotting with the "wild" gelding.


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## Kyro

I agree he might be a bit much for me. Actually the mare who was running with him was for sale too. Basically in my price range. Attached a picture (the only one I got of her remotely standing squarely, even though she is standing on higher ground with her front legs). So she could be worth looking at?

Foxhunter, cartoons, movies, the invention of internet and all the forums and such that have accompanied that..all account for me talking like I am  Even though I could be a lot better! I don't speak nearly as good English :lol: I mostly know what I want to say, but all the words get jumbled up inside before I manage to actually say anything. While writing I can rephrase, etc. But thanks for the compliment!


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## Kyro

Update! Got the videos of Aghata trotting for the lameness test. Opinions?


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## Kyro

I stand corrected - her left hind leg was the one causing problems. The right one was fine. I have loads of more videos if you guys would like to see.


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## tinyliny

Kyro said:


> I agree he might be a bit much for me. Actually the mare who was running with him was for sale too. Basically in my price range. Attached a picture (the only one I got of her remotely standing squarely, even though she is standing on higher ground with her front legs). So she could be worth looking at?
> 
> Foxhunter, cartoons, movies, the invention of internet and all the forums and such that have accompanied that..all account for me talking like I am  Even though I could be a lot better! I don't speak nearly as good English :lol: I mostly know what I want to say, but all the words get jumbled up inside before I manage to actually say anything. While writing I can rephrase, etc. But thanks for the compliment!



theres a lot to like about that mare. I say she is worth considering, depending on her temperament and training.

I should add that my perspective is not from someone who competes in dressage. I like the sturdy types better than the flashy types. just me.


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## Horseychick87

So sorry to hear about Aghata's leg, hopefully it's nothing serious. But in the video of her lunging it looked like her stifle was a bit tight? Might have been my imagination though. 

If it turns out she's not suitable I'm sure you'll be able to find another good horse. Maybe you could talk with the seller and see if she has any siblings that are for sale.


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## Kyro

So the search continues.

There is this stallion for sale (whom I would geld). He's a warmblood, advertised as very level-headed and likes people. He's 2,6 years old. 
































In my opinion: maybe a bit downhill, seems to have a long back, butt-high but will probably grow into it, long pasterns?

And this mare, 6 years old, green broke, warmblood. Don't have pictures of her, but owner said she is a sweetheart. No fancy movements, but seems to be decent. Video as follows:




IMO: tied in at the knee, downhill.

And the same mare that I mentioned before: 4 years old, knows the basics but still green.











Opinions welcome!


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## DraftyAiresMum

I really really like that last mare. She's nicely put-together and has a kind eye.

I do not like the bay stallion. Long back, downhill, and just not put together very well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxhunter

I really like the last mare. 
Forget the stallion. He is long in the back though I wouldn't worry about him being higher behind as he had growing to do and as they often go up behind and then catch up with the front end. Its a terrible photo too!


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## Kyro

Keep in mind the last mare is standing on higher ground with her front feet 

Any thoughts about the mare between the two? She's the only saddled horse from the three. Owner offered a real deal for her price-wise, as the stable is in need of room rather quickly and would love it if I 'released a space' for them.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I do like that mare in the video. I think she'd move even better if that saddle was moved back a couple of inches.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kyro

I like the last mare, because she's smaller than Danae (the trained one) :lol: I'm more comfortable around smaller horses. I found a video of the smaller mare too, maybe it can give you a better visual:


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## DraftyAiresMum

I REALLY like her. Really really. A lot. She's cute, looks very calm, has great forward movement, nice smooth trot. I'd take her. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny

Kyro said:


> Keep in mind the last mare is standing on higher ground with her front feet
> 
> Any thoughts about the mare between the two? She's the only saddled horse from the three. Owner offered a real deal for her price-wise, as the stable is in need of room rather quickly and would love it if I 'released a space' for them.



mare in video, Danae, is markedly dragging her left hind foot. I didn't watch more than 1 minute of that video to see this. this is a very frustrating trait of many warmbloods and can lead to a ton of trouble in the future. I would steer clear of her. 
look at greeny missy, the one that was freeelunged with wild guy.


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## tinyliny

last mare, littler one, moves nicely, though sometime right hind stifle seems odd.
I like her confo, and her demeanor.


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## Kyro

I like her demeanor too, she seems kindhearted and curious. I'm probably going to issue her a vet check. Meanwhile, there are some breeders who have written to me, who all insist that I must come visit to see the horses. There are some appies, Tori horses, warmbloods etc. Honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of searching! But I don't want to regret my decision later.


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## Regula

I was wondering whether it is only a budget issue that you are looking at unbroke and green horses. In your initial posting, you say you'd like to compete at medium level dressage and some jumping. Till you get there with a green horse it will be many years and you will spend a multiple of the purchase price in training, boarding, vet bills, farrier etc. 
So if it really is a budget concern, I would advocate for something that's already a little further along that you can ride and have fun with now and maybe show a bit already next season. Might be more initially, but will be far less total than bringing a young horse along.
Now if you just want to experience training a young horse, that's a different story...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

*makes grabby hands* Purdy Dun mustang.... lol Eloith you own a dead ringer for my dream horse XD!!!


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## Kyro

Regula said:


> I was wondering whether it is only a budget issue that you are looking at unbroke and green horses. In your initial posting, you say you'd like to compete at medium level dressage and some jumping. Till you get there with a green horse it will be many years and you will spend a multiple of the purchase price in training, boarding, vet bills, farrier etc.
> So if it really is a budget concern, I would advocate for something that's already a little further along that you can ride and have fun with now and maybe show a bit already next season. Might be more initially, but will be far less total than bringing a young horse along.
> Now if you just want to experience training a young horse, that's a different story...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is somewhat a budget issue. It is just not financially possible for me to pay for an already trained dressage horse right now. But I can buy a younger horse and I do have the finances to gradually put money&training on him/her as time progresses. But not enough money at the moment to do such a purchase as you suggested. I don't know if I explained it right, hope you understand.

Then there is the fact that yes, in a way, I would like to gain more experience training horses. I'd like the challenge. Yet this would put me in a situation where I wouldn't be competing very soon. Maybe in a year or two, depends on the process. It is embarrassing to admit, but I actually am still trying to figure out whether I want a semi-trained or green horse 

_So_ the first thing I'm going to do is decide what do I want to do. I should have done so sooner, but heck, better late than never. 


I'm thinking I should go down the semi-trained horse route. I can start riding, taking lessons, perhaps could compete next year if I feel like we are ready.. My instructor did advise me to take a horse who had some training done, but said if I really want, I could take a green one and he'll help me as best as he can. I'll have to think about this a bit.


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## Kyro

The trained warmblood I posted earlie about, whom Tinyliny said was dragging her left hind leg - would it change anything if I said her legs have been x-rayed and they were clean? She would still be 100% out of the question? 

Posting video again so nobody has to go look for it:


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## anndankev

Kyro said:


> It is somewhat a budget issue. It is just not financially possible for me to pay for an already trained dressage horse right now. But I can buy a younger horse and I do have the finances to gradually put money&training on him/her as time progresses. But not enough money at the moment to do such a purchase as you suggested.
> ...


It seems to me that the chrome gelding would be a very good investment for you considering your goals, 
which include that you would like to gain more experience training horses.

Didn't he seem a bit low-keyed to you, not overly forward? Maybe from his breeding he will have a high level of train-ability. 

There is potential for him to increase greatly in value and provide funding for 'the' one horse that your heart is drawn to.

Just my humble opinion, possibly food for thought.


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## Kyro

anndankev said:


> It seems to me that the chrome gelding would be a very good investment for you considering your goals,
> which include that you would like to gain more experience training horses.
> 
> Didn't he seem a bit low-keyed to you, not overly forward? Maybe from his breeding he will have a high level of train-ability.
> 
> There is potential for him to increase greatly in value and provide funding for 'the' one horse that your heart is drawn to.
> 
> Just my humble opinion, possibly food for thought.


I understand your point of view well, I would advise myself this too if I was a bystander. One of the crucial points for my horse would be that I adore him. I need to be happy with him, not regret buying some horse I don't like. And I really wanted myself to like the chrome, even while I was riding him. But we didn't seem to match.. How can I know this? Maybe I don't! I'm just listening to my gut feeling. 

I can give him some more thought as he does have potential.


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## Viranh

Maybe ride him again? I have had horses that I went on to adore that didn't click with me on the first ride, and horses that test rode well that didn't turn out to be a great match. Some of them grow on you.


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## Kyro

Can somebody give me their opinion on the mare Danae I posted on this page and what I asked about her, regarding dragging the hind leg? Would this improve with work? Her x-rays were clean, as I said. I am considering her as 
a.) she moves fairly well 
b.) I can start riding her right away 
and c.) she is capable of jumping quite well and nice in dressage as well.


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## Foxhunter

I like her, she is dragging a it but will strengthen up.

I tell you, if I were looking for prospects I would be over there I like a shot!


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## Elana

Dragging hind feet is often a BACK issue or a Pelvis issue.


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## Kyro

So before I think of buying her(Danae), in addition the the vet.exam I should have a chiro out to check her back right?


Right now I'm on my way to see Aghata again (the liver chestnut mare), she is currently being trailered to Estonias biggest equine clinic to face further examination, tests, etc regarding her back leg. We are having some professionals over specially for her. I very, very much hope that it turns out to be a minor issue! As I do think the two of us would suit together amazingly Of course, if it is going to cause her problems in the future, I won't buy.

Also, I went to ride Ravell yesterday (picture attached of him). His stable was so far away, we even crossed the Latvian border! He was bigger than I thought. And his training was much more than I thought - I could already trot and canter with him loosely. He was advertised as a very temperamental and nervous horse..but I don't think he is that bad actually. He just needs lots of patience. He had a nice trot, I actually needed to almost-constantly ride him forward if I wanted an active trot. Same goes for canter, even though he fell out of it every 5 strides. When he was scared of something he would snort, look at it and slow down (which is a good reaction I think!) That being said, most of the time he is tense and head is way up in the air. He didn't really relax during the whole ride. Maybe a tad bit, but it was like he was scared to relax completely. I'm guessing he doesn't trust people that well. Or perhaps it was because I was a new rider and he didn't trust me yet. 

I'm also going to see the chrome gelding again. I want to see how he moves at the lunge, trotting. As all the times I see him trotting, he is taking small steps and never over-reaching.


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## Elana

Post video of the chrome Gelding if you can. Be interesting to see how he moves.


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## rbaker0345

I would have a chiropractor or an osteopath look at her. X-rays don't tell the whole story.


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## rbaker0345

Do you have EPM in Estonia?


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## Kyro

EPM as in the disease? I don't believe we have that here. I googled it and we don't have opossums nor does it sound like something she could have IMHO. 

*UPDATE.* 

I have decided I will buy Aghata, the liver chestnut mare :razz:

_Summary:_ We went to the clinic on Monday and her results were rather positive. The doctors agreed that her hind leg is a tad stiff (but they didn't see any limping), so we did a bunch of tests: flexing, anesthetic tests, ultrasound and x-rays. The only tests that showed something were the x-rays. A part of a bone in her left hind knee appeared to be tad flatter than it should be. This seems to make her naturally move a bit differently - not very noticeable but still there every now and then. 
This was pretty much everything. The doc said she wouldn't be top-class material, but she sees no problem in her being ridden and doing local competitions etc. 
When I stayed with Aghata at the clinic I just knew she had been waiting for me, for me to find and buy her. I don't care if she isn't perfect, as long as she has no major faults. I know I had some other nice options regarding potential horses. I just decided I will go with my gut feeling and see how it goes 

I am so happy  I will bring her home on the 25th November. I have so much shopping to do!

Here's a couple pics of her while she was waiting for her appointment. She was so curious about the new surroundings, smelling and licking everything :razz:

















In regards to the chrome gelding, I am still waiting for her owner to make a video. She doesn't seem to want to talk to me much, but since I'd like to see him move out of curiosity (and maybe some of you guys here too) then I'll still try to get her to video him. But yeah, I have decided I won't buy him. 

I feel really good about my decisions


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## SueC

I like the liver chestnut mare too. Not so fond of the bay gelding - he looks awkwardly put together and has a very poor, thin neck and you want to ride dressage and to me there are a whole number of conformation alarm bells going off (which I can enumerate if necessary). Yes, those things can improve with work, but still... Out of the first four, she'd be the one I'd be looking at.


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## SueC

Oh look Kyro, my post was superfluous! :rofl: I didn't read all 12 pages before posting! 

Nice horse, I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice! Love the personality and intelligence showing through in the photos too!


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## Kyro

Haha yes Sue, you nailed it!  She is a real sweetheart, I have yet to figure out her personality quirks. Am right now trying to decide whether I want to buy an all purpose or dressage saddle for her. I'll be mainly doing dressage but would like to jump sometimes too, so I still have something to figure out.


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## Viranh

By "knee" do you mean stifle or hock? A stifle issue may improve with steady work, actually, so the stiffness may diminish once she is more fit unless it is due to arthritis. I have dealt with a hock arthritis and stifle issues both, and a stifle is IMO easier to manage. She seems like a character and I think you will love her.


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## falling

I'm so happy to hear that all turned out well in terms of that lovely, lovely mare! I hope for the best for you two


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## SueC

Kyro said:


> Haha yes Sue, you nailed it!  She is a real sweetheart, I have yet to figure out her personality quirks. Am right now trying to decide whether I want to buy an all purpose or dressage saddle for her. I'll be mainly doing dressage but would like to jump sometimes too, so I still have something to figure out.


Because of my long legs I couldn't fit happily into a dressage saddle if I tried, and the Ascot Romana AP I ride in has a marvellous deep seat and is cleverly cut to allow the horse very free shoulder movement, so it's equally fine for dressage schooling and trails (and would take you over jumps as well). If you want to do different things, versatile is usually better than specialised, at least for the start... (BTW, my horse photo here is still in the old saddle which wasn't nearly as good!)

When you do buy your saddle, I really recommend having a professional fitter come out with a number of potential candidates so you can choose after road-testing, and have the saddle adjusted 100% to your horse. It's not actually that expensive and it makes so much difference, I wish I had done that from the start of riding horses... one time you don't want to be counting your pennies...


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## tinyliny

I liked the mare, but then I have no interest in competing in dressage, and to me she just seemed like a nice all around riding horse.

good luck!


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## Kyro

Viranh, it's actually her hind hock issue. It is still rather minor. Are hock issues very bad usually? Some friend told me that 'There is no such thing as a 100% healthy horse' as in almost all horses will have a problem with something or two in their lives. It got me thinking that at least I know Aghatas' problem early on and hopefully it will be her only one. 

Thanks falling & Tinyliny, she does have that versatile look about her!

Sue, hmm you do have a point. Yes, I was planning to have her fitted or at least call someone over who can properly check the saddle and if it fits her nice. Though I'm the opposite from you - I'm very short :lol: so I usually have the problem that saddles are too big for me. But I'm hoping I'll find something that suits both of us, maybe an All Purpose saddle then.


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## egrogan

I am short too and most dressage saddles have flaps so long I can't come close to putting my leg on the actual horse. Too bad you're so far away, I'm actually selling a short flap County dressage saddle, which I love, but is a bit too small for me in the seat. You could look into County though, they do make a short flap option. I now have a Trilogy Debbie MacDonald dressage saddle, also with a short flap. It's a pretty big difference- 15.5" flap on a typical "short flap" model compared to closer to 17" flap on a "regular flap" dressage saddle.


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## Cali

I've been following this thread from the beginning and just wanted to say congratulations on making a decision, she is gorgeous 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Viranh

You're right that no horse is perfect. If the issue is minor, which it sounds like it is, it really shouldn't cause you too much trouble for what you want to do. You will probably have to deal with arthritis eventually because even if that abnormality is not arthritis, it may cause her to develop it early. I wouldn't worry too much right now, although a joint supplement might not hurt.

Also, congratulations. She seems like a really nice horse.


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## Corporal

I'm happy on your decision. It would have been REALLY hard for me, based on your pictures, to get past that Chrome gelding!!! His movement had me drooling.
BUT, your mare looks SOOO SWEET and a good disposition trumps any training, IMHO.
You MUST start a training thread with her. =D 
Happy training!!!


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## jaydee

Glad to hear you made a decision. Good luck with her, hope the settling in phase goes well


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## Kyro

Everyone is so nice, thank you jaydee & Corporal & Viranh & Cali & egrogan!

egrogan, I'm actually unsure of my saddle size at the moment. I measured my seat and it said I should get a 17,5'' saddle o.o but I'm pretty sure that's too big for me - perhaps I measured it wrong? I'm 5ft2 in height. But my butt is rather big :lol:

And perhaps I will start a training thread with her! Would be nice to have something like a blog


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## Viranh

Kyro, I'm 5'2" and have kind of a big butt. I usually try to ride in a 16.5" or 17" for a jumping or A/P so that the flap isn't overwhelming, but for dressage, I have to have a short flap no matter what. I used a youth saddle for a while (16", my poor butt, so miserable), and now have a Custom Saddlery that is a 17.5" but has a very short flap (custom order) so it actually fits every where. There are some makers that offer a short flap as a stock option, you'll just have to keep an eye out. It is so much more comfortable to be in the correct seat size and have the right flap.


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## GreyFeather

Really pleased for you. Just read this thread with interest and am happy to see that things worked out for you and Aghata! At the end of the day you're the one who will be in a partnership with the horse you buy, so it makes sense that you should go for the one you feel you will be the happiest with, even if another horse may technically have the edge in one aspect or another. As long as there is nothing glaringly wrong with her that will affect her future soundness then who cares if she isn't top class material as long as you're happy. I actually think she's really lovely and certainly capable of doing a little bit of everything to a decent standard - she was the one I was most drawn to of all those you've posted, even if the Chestnut gelding is nice as well .


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