# Pinto/Paint Genetics?



## livestoride (Mar 30, 2011)

***Disclaimer - I do not own either the mare or stallion and had no input as to the decision to breed***

How does the paint/pinto gene get passed on? Is it dominant, recessive, full or incomplete penetrance??? I know a fair amount about genetics in general, but not about horse colors. 

I am asking because a friend has decided to breed his draft cross mare who is a chestnut/white pinto to a spotted draft stallion who also is what I would call chestnut and white, but that may be incorrect. Since his mare is grade we know nothing about her make up and to my knowledge she has never been bred before. The stallion has had 3 foals on the ground all of which were sorrel with little chrome. 

He is hoping for a chestnut and white (again sorry if incorrect) foal to train to drive. I was thinking that if it was a recessive trait, then given both parents are pinto then that would mean the foal would have to be as well since he would only be able to inheret recessive genes from both parents. Wasn't sure if this is a correct assumption or not.

Thanks!


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

There are several genes that can cause white patterns. All of them are dominant as far as we know. However, there are also genes that can restrict white, and how they inherit is currently unknown. 

Let your friend know that he needs to test his mare at least for frame. It's a white pattern gene that is lethal when a foal gets a copy from both parents. The foal is born almost completely white, and dies within 72 hours as its digestive tract doesn't form properly. It is in a lot of pain as it dies, so it is best to have a vet put the foal to sleep before then.


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## livestoride (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for responding. I am personally very much against this breeding and have told him so quite blunty. I am secretly hoping she doesn't take, but if she does I will try and help to make it go well for the mare and her foal. He knows a lot about horses but is not prepared for this. I will tell him about it, but doubt he will do the test. 

Based on that info, is it pretty good chance he will get a colored foal?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Breeding for colour is a crapshoot at best. There is a good chance that the foal will have the white pattern genes, yes. However, some white pattern genes can express very minimally, like a white spot on a heel for tobiano, and others can be there but not express at all.


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## rhavennah (Jun 19, 2012)

without seeing pics, its hard to know what color each horse is

there are several white pattern expression genes and yes, he definitely needs to test the mare for frame overo...and if she has it, then he will need to know if the stallion is a frame overo as well for the lethal white foal syndrome mentioned above

all pattern genes are dominant, but unless both parents of each horse both had patterned coats and without a color type test, there's no way to know if the foal will have a pattern

if the stallion has his markings from tobiano, but is Toto (only one copy of the tobi gene) and the mare is frame overo (automatically only one copy), its possible for the foal to not inherit either one

uc davis has the tests that would be needed


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## Eileen (Aug 25, 2010)

It gets confusing. We have a registered Paint. Not all Pintos are paints These horses would not be considered as Paints but pintos. Check with these two associations to get the best information on the breeding and colorings.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Registries are the last place I would look for information on patterns and genes as 99% of the time they are outdated and wrong...


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Since your saying both sire and dam are chestnut. The foal will definitely be chestnut. Red + Red ='s Red in the horse world. But...It's just a matter if the foal will get a pinto pattern or not...


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## Valkyrie1977 (Jun 20, 2012)

*Paint/pinto*

To help clarify...Paint is a breed registry which can be "colored" or solid. There are two main pattern types, tobiano and overo. Within the overo, there are multiple types as well, one being the "frame" pattern which is associated with the lethal white gene (LWO). Two frame overos generally are not bred, as there is a 25% chance for the above mentioned lethal white foal. 
Pinto is a color registry and is open to all breeds (or almost all). It makes for an interesting show and they are seperated into "types" for showing purposes. All paint horses are registry eligible as pintos, even the solid paint horses (SPB).
If you are really curious, there are several excellent "horse color calculators" you can find with google. It helps clarify the genetics involved in breeding. And yes, I've spent too many nights on the color calculators :lol:


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