# What color is my Jewel?



## nicole25 (Jun 24, 2011)

Her mom and dad are beautiful! She is only 3, could she still be trying to figure out her own color right now too? I am not a color expert by any means.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Based on the pictures there, I would say either brown or very sunfaded black. Her foal picture make me think black.

She can't have the cream gene unless one of her parents does, which _might_ be possible if one of them is smoky black, which doesn't look any different than a normal black. Do you know what her grandparents' colors were?


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Coffee bean. Very pretty,


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## Hennessy (Sep 22, 2011)

I want to say she's Guerrillo coloured. They tend to have that brindled colouration But in some of these pictures she looks roan as well... It's hard telling.


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## KDW (May 31, 2011)

Not Gulla. Not at all.


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## alforddm (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm going to do with brown on this one, although it is possible she is a very sun faded black. Will you be testing?


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## Hennessy (Sep 22, 2011)

<-- Grulla coloured horse.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

She certainly does not look grulla to me. All the hairs on a grulla should be that mousey gray color. They should not appear roany with different colored hairs.

She looks more like a roan. But I don't know the genetics of it. I think roans are like grays in that one parent has to be roan. So I doubt she is a roan either.

Based on her parents I would say brown. But she really doesn't look brown either. 

All I can say for sure is that she is beautiful and TALL. :mrgreen:

PS. How tall is she?


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

She looks like a fading black to me. My Dancer is a grulla, and they are nothing alike. There are some slight color variations within grulla, but basically, grulla is a black dun, and I see absolutely no dun factor showing on your girl.

She is sure going to be a stunner when she is all grown up!


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

I agree she isn't a grulla, have had one of those. Her lighter areas are just on the tips of the hair, don't go all the way down to her skin, that part is blackish.

She turned 3 the end of April and she's about 16.2ish in the front, taller in her rear. 

She actually does have a darker dorsal stripe above her tail which doesn't make sense because neither of her parents are a dun?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I know I am wrong in my termonology, but if someone told me they had a brown roan, I would picture this horse's color.


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## alforddm (Oct 1, 2010)

> She actually does have a darker dorsal stripe above her tail which doesn't make sense because neither of her parents are a dun?


That is most likely countershading. It is common on brown horses and I can even make out a faint one on my blue roan (tested Ee aa) when he fades a bit in the summer. It is thought to be a type of camouflage but it is not known what causes it. Usually the dorsal is "smudged looking" and tends to fade out before the withers. 


A roan has white hair intermixed into the coat. 

This is a fairly good example of a brown roan. 
Luther | Equine Color Genetics


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

The horse in the link is what I would think of when someone said they had a red roan. Sorry I am not a color person, even though I own paints, in fact I like sorrels & bays the best. Odd huh?


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## alforddm (Oct 1, 2010)

Here he is in his winter coat. http://colorgenetics.info/equine/ga...439_100000504114689_129732_1578690_n.jpg.html

You can see the base color better. Traditionally, at least with the AQHA, red roan was used to designate both bay and chestnut bases. Now, if I remember correctly they have a category for bay roan with red being reserved for chestnut bases. The best way, would probably be to use black roan, bay roan, and chestnut roan but I still use blue and *blush* at times even "strawberry". 

...I think I was responsible for this thread getting very off track...


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

We have neighbors that breed quarter horses and have a lot of strawberry and bay roans, love watching the babies as they change! She definitely isn't a roan, no white anywhere except on her forehead.

Well, can she be a smoky black with her parent's coloring?


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## Hennessy (Sep 22, 2011)

from what I've read up on Grullas.... that's possibly what that mare is.








The caption of this picture says "Three Grullas and a grey" 

Here's my source: Welcome to Glacier Ridge


My answer sticks. I think she's a dark roan or a dark grulla. Specially with mention of that dorsal stripe and noticing the mottled pattern upon her.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

1) She is not grulla because neither of her parents are dun. She also looks absolutely nothing like a grulla.

2) She is not a roan because their of her parents are a roan.

With her parents what they are, she has to options of being black, bay, chestnut, or brown. She is obviously not a chestnut, so that's out. I would also rule out bay, which leaves black or brown. 

After looking at the pictures again, I would say she's just a very sunfaded black. If she were brown, the lighter points would be in "softer" areas like the elbow and flank. However, they are in spots that get hit with direct sunlight, particularly her shoulder and hip.


The dorsal stripe is countershading. It's like when you take a marker and color over a spot twice. It gets darker. Same concept. As in two sides of the horse's color are overlapping. It makes sort of stripe, but not a true dorsal stripe.


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

So, if I blanketed her or kept her inside during the hotter months, she'd stay darker?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Yep. A light turnout sheet will help with the sunbleaching if she's outside during the day or I know some show horses that sunbleach easily are stalled during the day and turned out at night.


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## alforddm (Oct 1, 2010)

This horse tested Aa from UC Davis. I would have SWORE she was black. I think I even used her as an example of a faded black. 

Just goes to show you, how hard it can be to tell without a test. I agree that keeping her blanketed or out of the sun with keep her darker, black or brown. Some people also have luck feeding paprika or black oil sunflower seeds to keep them darker. I haven't tried either. Oh one more suggestion, mineral deficiencies can also cause a coat to fade especially copper and selenium. You may want to try a low salt mineral supplement formulated for your area. 

Here her thread that talks about her testing. 
Iris | Equine Color Genetics


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## TheChelseyDee (Sep 24, 2011)

Oh she is just gorgeous!
She looks like she's a bay/black and is a little sunbleached. She might end up being a seal black (black in winter, black with any shade of brown on the underhairs.) Bays can often have the primitive dorsal stripe, as well.


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

Continually trying to keep this girl at a decent weight..... She gets about 5 lbs. of Purina Strategy pellets morning and night, has a mineral salt block, gets wormed regularly...... seems like if her ribs aren't showing, then her hips are.....


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Have you tried just feeding her some Omolene? It's nothing special but I use that on my hard keeper horses, one or two scoops per feeding!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

I would have her tested for low copper levels...if she is deficient in that, it could explain her extreme sunbleaching as well as the difficulty keeping weight on her. Even if she comes back at "okay" levels, I would try to supplement her with a mineral/vitamin supp that has a good amount of copper in it. Make sure when you supplement, she doesn't have access to other sources, since that could lead to overdoses of certain vitamins, or minerals


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

Okay, I'll check into the copper levels. They do a blood test or hair sample? Thanks!


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Could she possibly be a sooty buckskin? Don't know all about the genetics (I am trying to learn more!) but I have seen some sooty buckskins that were similar to that.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

The horse at the top of this page turned out to be a buckskin. Jewel can't be because neither of her parents carry the cream gene.


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## Flmountainhorse (Sep 29, 2011)

I didn't see it mentioned that a test for cream gene was done and came out negative?


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

For the OP's mare? It would be pointless because her parents are black and brown..


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## Flmountainhorse (Sep 29, 2011)

a smokey black carries the cream gene, but is no different looking than any other black horse, so one would only know by testing........


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I am well aware that it looks exactly the same.

OP, what are the names of Jewel's dam and sire? Checking their pedigree could save you the $25 for a cream test.


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

Jewel's mother is a Jockey club TB, Ms. Grizz, not sure what her registered color is, maybe dark brown or black? She belonged to my friend who has since given her away.

Jewel's father is a Hanoverian, Devon Heir, not sure what color his parents were but he looks like a black. 2001 Hanovarian stallon by DeNiro out of Ribana X Rubinstein.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I can't find anything on her dam, but I highly doubt her sire is a smoky black Hanoverian. I don't think his dam was a smoky black either. 

If you want to be 100%, the test for cream is $25. I personally still think she's just extremely sunfaded.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Sunfaded brown. I don't think she is a cream dilute, and I am basing that off her foal coat, not her adult one. Her foal coat very much screams brown to me - darker than a bay foal, with the 'sooty' along the top line. No doubt in my mind that she is brown.

Edit to add: The golden cast to her coat in these pictures is being caused by the lighting not by her coat colour. They have been taken in very late afternoon sunlight, probably only an hour or so before sunset.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

I think she will be turning brown, black, or gray, as she looks like she is darkening.. But right now I would say buckskin


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

A buckskin can't turn brown or black.. 

She can't be buckskin unless one of her parents carries the cream gene, which doesn't appear to be the case. She also can't be gray because neither of her parents are gray.


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

I'll get more pictures of her during the brighter time of the day. We are in Southern Cal where temps get up to 112 and she and her pasture buddy choose to stand out in the sun, rather than under the trees? My bay is still as bright as ever, does not get sun-faded at all.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Some horses sunfade, others don't fade at all. They like to keep us on our toes


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Heck, apachiedragon and I both have breeding stock Paints, both buckskins that are "seasonally sooty". We couldn't really figure it out. When they shed out their winter coats, they have a lot of dark brown hairs mixed in, so they look filthy, but it's their hair. Really random.


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