# How did Native Americans ride off the sides of their horses in battle?



## Dustbunny

Than sounds like quite a trick, doesn't it? Some of us might have actually done that, be it not intentionally, and without the shooting part.

Years ago I read a book by Danielle Steele...something about a palomino (??) and the only one of her's I ever read. This character was riding and was pressing her knees or legs into the flank. I had to laugh at the mental image as she must have been holding on to the tail. So getting descriptions of what is going on correct is important...otherwise it gives great humor to some of us who are easily amused.

I hope you get the information you need. It almost sounds more Hollywood to me but what do I know? At least I know your knees don't belong in the flank.

Good luck with the book! I used to think doing that would be interesting but could never get past the really great openings. : )


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## dbarabians

There is a book Empire of the Summer Moon about the Comanche Nation and its 40 year war with the Republic of Texas and the US.
I read the book a couple of years ago and it had a very good description of how they would slide to one side while shooting arrows.
I hope that gives you a reference you can use. Shalom


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## Palomine

Many times they rode with a loop around the horse's barrel that they would slide knees under for stability as they went to one side or other.

The loop was of leather, and just loose enough for knees to fit under.

Whether or not they would also use a strap off of mane to hang with? May or may not have. And would imagine this was done more as evasive move rather than offensive.

Don't know if also would slide feet into and brace against the loop around barrel but that is what I remember reading years ago, by someone that either lived with Indians, or fought them.

If you have horse and small boy, loop leather around barrel and boost kid up and try it out...

Might also research books from that era about fighting the Indians too.


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## toto

Lol, they used a saddle?


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## Saddlebag

There was no loop around the barrel. Keep in mind how fit they guys were. It's hard to believe but they could run all day and not tire and I don't mean like "out for a job" they ran with considerable speed. They were nothing but muscle and sinew. Their horses weren't built like the stocky qh. If the legs slipped off they'd just let them fall, touch the ground in mid strike and pop back up on the horse.


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## Saddlebag

Sorry about the typos. I need new glasses. "out for a jog" and mid stride and pop back up.


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## Corporal

Native Americans first ate the horse. Then, they saw Europeans riding the horse, so they stole them and taught themselves how to ride them. If one went lame or broke a leg, they ate it. No kidding.
WhenEVER they managed to steal the horse AND the saddle they used it. _Smart people make what they find into things that are useful._
The Hungarian Cavalry rode a saddle without a girth. They used their leg strength to ride just like the Native Americans did.
Also, most Native Americans have assimilated into the American culture. My DH was a History major and has been writing 19th-20th century historical fiction. He has 3 books e-published and 5 more will be up very soon. (He has over 50 books in various drafts beyond these.) We were both CW Reenactors and he has read extensively about the post-CW, Indian War period. That doesn't include the period of time from when the Conquistadors had horses that got free or were stolen by Native Americans, but the condition of the horse, vis a vis a filled in back, wasn't important to them, EXCEPT that a saddle is ALWAYS more comfortable than bareback.
Movies try to replicate the way that they covered their newly acquired or inherited saddles with their own beads or shells or blankets. Wool, btw was unknown to them until the Hudson Bay Company provided blankets to sell to the natives. Wool is just as warm but much lighter than animal skins and the natives quickly adapted to their use, as well.
_I suspect that you would like to write about the romantic idea of the American Plains Indian riding with a thong around the horse's lower jaw, war paint on the flanks that looks like hands, and hanging off of the side of the horse shooting at the buffalo._ You can find a lot of information about how they hunted online. Visually, Frederick Remington is only as useful as late 19th century. Your best bet is to look for and read journals of the period. That's what we did. Perhaps the place to start and the easiest to find and to read would be from the Louis and Clark (1804) Expedition. They wrote about everything they saw, including the herds of Grizzly Bear. They were shooting at them for meat, as they had down for meat with Black Bear back east, but "outlawed it" bc the bears were infuriated with their shots and bc extremely dangerous, as they are today in Yellowstone Park.
Regarding other tribes, certainly the Eastern tribes rode the horse with the same tack as the Europeans.
Hope this helps you.


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## Wheatermay

Anyone very notice the old cowboy movies where the natives where Italian and rode "bareback".... but if you looked they were sitting in a saddle and had it covered with a blanket, haha!

But yea, basically, as Saddlebag had said. The would just right bareback, slide off to the side, hooking their heel, then pull themselves back. If they slide too far, they would bounce off the ground on that foot and back on. They were very fit and almost like gymnasts! I mean, how many of us can even jump on a horse the way they do? LOL it's impressive!


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## xJumperx

The best way I can picture is this -

These people were forced to mount 17hh horses from the ground, bareback. 

If you've ever tried that, you know it takes some strength o.o


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## Nokotaheaven

.... Youtube time :d


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## Wheatermay

I cant mount a 14h horse bareback, bwhahah!


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## Nokotaheaven

... And all youtube offers me is riding sidesaddle >.>


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## Wheatermay

Sadly I think our best example of native riding would be the Disney movie Spirit... lol.... no shooting that I can remember though....


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## Nokotaheaven

I know there's some side riding in Tombstone (the movie), but its not done by natives and there was a saddle and bridle used


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## AnrewPL

I'd ask did they actually do any of it? I'm in the midst of academia doing a Ph.D. and doing that kind of stuff you tend to notice how many of the taken for granted assumptions we have about so many things, many of them “absolute truth”, are actually figments of popular culture's imagination.
For example, how many of us assume that medieval knights were slow, cumbersome and weighed down by all that armour, to the extent they needed to be hoisted onto their horses by a winch like contraption? And its all rubbish, that myth comes from an old film adaptation of Henry V (directed by Lawrence Olivier, I think). The point is, precisely, that the way we think people did things in the past, like how native Americans rode a horse, are probably much more conditioned by images we saw on moves that are not shaped by historical fact but by what people will find appealing to watch.
Id go ask some native Americans that still ride around on horses what they think; you might get a more historically accurate answer.


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## Wheatermay

AnrewPL said:


> Id go ask some native Americans that still ride around on horses what they think; you might get a more historically accurate answer.


I have actually, part of my family, lol.. And they say the same. Then the discussion came to that their history can become distorted as well. I figure just like any other culture there are good riders and bad riders. Maybe some could hang on like that, but maybe others couldnt. Might find someone who knows more, bc non of my family on that side rides horses. Maybe find a native that rides?


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## Foxhunter

As Saddlebag says they were very fit.
Horses would have been around 15 hands as they were basically feral horses escaped from the Spanish. 

When playing around practising for gymkhana games we were often bareback and I know I (not very athletic at all) could lean right over the pony's side and pick up something from the ground _and_ return to upright!
I would hook the heel of my foot into the pony's spine and have my left arm around his neck or holding the mane. Best done at a fast canter as the momentum helps you back on. 

_I absolutely refute the rumour that I ever shot anyone from this position! _

Vaulting onto a horse is not difficult it is a knack and once learned the height makes little difference.


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## AuthorDanaReynolds

Thanks everyone for your input. I've still not found detailed information that totally describes it. I have read several historical reference, but since the riders are disappearing on the OFF side from the observer, the observers can't describe how it is done!


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## Wheatermay

Foxhunter... I want video! That sounds amazing!!!!


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## dbarabians

In the book Empire of the Summer Moon the authors claim that only the Comanches were very adept at this.
Most tribes did not fight on horseback and the comanches were very successful at displacing other tribes in such a large area because of their skills on horseback. In fact until the six shooter and repeating rifles americans and texans could not win a fight because comanches could fire more arrows before a soldier could reload a gun.
It is a very interesting book. Shalom


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## LesandLily

I have photographed several different native American riders in different reenactment scenarios and some of them were outstanding riders. Leaning over and picking up something from the ground would not be a problem. Vaulting onto the horse from behind, not a problem. But when it comes to shooting it becomes necessary to use both hands on the bow and therefore you wouldn't have an extra hand to hold onto the horse with. What I have seen them do in reenactments (these are all Sioux and Cheyenne reenactors) is to lay down along the horses back and shoot with the left hand holding the bow and the right hand releasing the arrow from just above the horses withers. This presents a very small target for the enemy and if you were being shot at this way it could easily appear that they were under the horses neck when in fact they were on top. However, after firing it is a simple thing (for them) to then hang off of the far side of the horse for a shield and then come back up for another shot. I have seen them do it for reenactments several times. Pretty impressive. And these guys are nowhere near as fit as the Lakota warriors of the 1870s were.

Just my $.02 but I would guess they shot along the back and then ducked to the far side for cover after each shot, giving the appearance of shooting from under the neck.

Cheers.
Les


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## Allison Finch

Painting by a man who lived with the Indians early in this country's days.











Yes, they did have saddles and bridles











Even though they were skillful riders, they were not known for their gentle methods.


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## jaydee

Yeah - I've been in that position a few times - usually didn't end well!!!
British gymkhana - the best sport ever!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXoXfYUQXkA&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL41D24AD076BA7E6A


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## KigerQueen

^ has pics from the time frame






^ /from the history channel.

im still looking for what your talking about, but i will find it lol. Also the saddle thing is playing out more then the "romanticized" history.


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## KigerQueen

This is all i could find. I have ridden somewhat like that ('trail' riding and we are going under a tree lol)


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## Virk

*Horses in Battle*



AuthorDanaReynolds said:


> I hope someone can help me, I've looked all over the internet and cannot find a description of how Native Americans dropped over the side of their horse in battle to use it as a shield. I need this for a novel I'm writing.
> 
> I have read descriptions of how they could shoot from under or over their pony's neck as they hung from its side.
> 
> I only know they tied a loop in the mane to hang from and kept one heel over the spine of the horse. But where is the other leg? Is there a stirrup of some kind? Did they brace it against the stifle of the back leg as a kind of foot-hold?
> 
> If you have any resource on this at all, please let me know!
> 
> Thanks,
> Dana Reynolds


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You can still see for yourself ho this is done; Go and watch the Horse Civilization; PUTZA of Hungary; Kazakhs; Kirghiz; Cossack. You can see them now


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## Kotori

Well I did this when my horse though it would be a cool trick to do a huge jump over a little dip, then explode into a canter- and I can barely sit the trot bareback! what I did was hook my foot into his spine, and after holding myself there for a second (During the leap. The landing started me sliding) I put my hand on his neck and slid myself back into position.


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