# One Month Progress/Help Needed



## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

Well, what really stands out to me is that she looks a lot thinner in the after photos. I would really look into that before thinking about trying to get her muscled. Maybe with being worked more, she needs more calories in her diet. She definitely won't be able to build muscle if she isn't getting what she needs from her diet.

I also notice a lump on the back of her left hock in the second set of photos. Was that always there?


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for your comments! She is definitely thinner. She has been losing weight for a little while and I have been doing everything I can think of to help her gain, but she just isn't. I am going to try and add some corn oil to her diet and maybe a weight gainer? Any suggestions on that?

She has free choice hay and she ALWAYS has her head stuck in it...I dont really want to increase her 14% pellets if I can avoid it, but I will if I have to.

The lump was always there (I know you really cant tell from the first photo). Its an old injury according to the vet. Looks like maybe she was kicked or something similar, but it doesnt affect her in any way.


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

How old is the mare? and what is she getting for food right now and how much a day? Also when was she wormed last?


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## Larra98 (Jan 17, 2009)

your horse looks alot like mine cool


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Eventer-

She just turned 5 years old, the 2nd pictures were actually taken on her birthday.

She is being fed Heritage 14% pellets from Big V Feeds. I know nothing about this feed, this is just what they feed at the farm I moved her to last month.

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/images/E0184101/Performance14PelletedHorseFeed2.pdf

Currently she is being fed a scoop and a half in the morning and again at night. I know I need to weigh this, but I would think that it would total about 8-10lbs. I can find out exactly how much this is soon (I just need to find a scale).

She is in what I would consider heavy work (I ride her about 5-6 times a week for about 30-45 minutes) so according to their instructions, she needs about 11-14lbs a day (I am guessing her at 1100 lbs., but really she is probably around 1000). Obviously I could bump her up on this feed, however does anyone have a recommendation on a better feed or does this one look ok?

She was last wormed when she was vet checked on December 10th, 2010 so it has been about 7 1/2 weeks.

Should I go ahead and worm her again?

ETA-Thanks Larra!


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Bump!

Trying to set her up for success guys. Dont want her to lose any more weight than she already has...

Recommendations?


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

If that scoop and a 1/2 of pelleted feed is a 2 quart scoop, it probably only weighs about 3lbs tops. The pelleted stuff is surprisingly light.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

She has dropped a little but before I go into anything about feed/worming there are a couple of other things to consider:

1.) She has moved recently. TB’s do experience stress as a result of moving and stress can lead to poor digestion.
2.) Did she come from the track directly? If so, she was probably on rocket fuel food and as such her current feed is probably of a lower caloric value.
3.) It is heading into winter and TB’s can struggle in the colder weather, some do some don’t. Your girl might be one that does.
4.) Any combination of the above either acting alone or in concert.

I don’t know what your scoop measurement is but as a comparison, I feed my girl 2 ½ scoops of pelleted feed a day which is equivalent to around 13 pounds daily. Plus free choice hay. She is worked 3 days a week and not overly hard – between 30 mins and 60 mins, mostly walk/trot work with some cantering.

Also, even though your girl may have lost some weight, it is minimal and you are getting onto it at the right time! I think you may just need to increase her feed. She is new to you, it will take some time to ‘get it right’ in terms of diet.

Before anyone mentions it, I don’t think it is a dental issue as they don’t usually present as an acute weight loss. However, you may want to consider having her teeth done as they may not have been done since she had her wolf teeth removed. Having them done may help with her digestion and continued weight gain.

I love her winter fuzzies!!


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## xXEventerXx (Nov 27, 2010)

Well when my Tb came back from training he was skin and bones, i was not very happy so i put him on Beet Pulp one Big scoop full it was about a inch on the bottom of a bucket, and calf manna and i love calf manna for this reason when i was riding my horse i needed to feet him more concentrates and protein because most Tbs loose weight easily if worked and he did so he was on alot of hay and grain. Calf manna bulked him up like crazy ill show you a comparison. Id say if you can get a hay that has a higher procentage in protein id try that first and a bit of beet pulp. And if that doesnt help get some calf manna.

On calf manna/40% alfalfa/timothy hay 









I cant find a before pic but he was skinnier than your horse :/ it was bad and he put the weight on in 3- 5 months


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

sarahver said:


> She has dropped a little but before I go into anything about feed/worming there are a couple of other things to consider:
> 
> 1.) She has moved recently. TB’s do experience stress as a result of moving and stress can lead to poor digestion.
> 2.) Did she come from the track directly? If so, she was probably on rocket fuel food and as such her current feed is probably of a lower caloric value.
> ...


Thanks Sarah!

She didnt come directly from the track, she had been off the track for almost a year when she came to me, however her previous owner did have her on sweet feed, which we quickly weaned her off of.

I will definitely have her teeth checked to make sure she isnt having any issues, although like you said I really dont believe that is it with her (better to check than be wrong though).

I definitely want to do something, but I really dont want to just feed her MORE of the pelleted feed she is getting now. Its corn based and I really just dont want her eating a ton of it at a time. If I increased it, she would be getting 2 full scoops morning and again at night. That just seems like a lot of maybe a not so great feed...

I was thinking of mixing in some alfalfa pellets with her current feed and feeding some vegetable oil as well.

Any thoughts on this?


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

When I got my TB he was 300lbs underweight this is what I didn.. 
Put him on sentinal performance ls 2 1/2 scoops three times a day which was about 15 lbs (which is what the vet recommended)
Sentinal performance ls is a good food because it's high in calories and is low in startch/sugars. And easily digested heres the fact sheet 
http://www.sentinelfeed.com/pdfs/blueseal_sellsheet_LS.pdf
( I have not had good luck with beat pulp)
Put him on good quality hay about 6 flakes a day (alfalfa/orchard grass)
Had a fecal checked and his teeth (they were both good) 
And he gained weight like a champ I got him on Nov 5th 2010 at 902lbs and now he is 1040 lbs

Heres what he looked like when I got him








And this was about a month ago


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

DubyaS6 said:


> I definitely want to do something, but I really dont want to just feed her MORE of the pelleted feed she is getting now. Its corn based and I really just dont want her eating a ton of it at a time. If I increased it, she would be getting 2 full scoops morning and again at night. That just seems like a lot of maybe a not so great feed...
> 
> I was thinking of mixing in some alfalfa pellets with her current feed and feeding some vegetable oil as well.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Have you got any more info on your feed? Maybe a spec sheet? The feed I use is rice bran based (corn free) and it is a 14% protein, 7% fat. I find that she does really well on it as it is low starch and low sugar, hence she doesn't turn into a fire breathing dragon if I need to increase it. 

Alfalfa is great stuff, if you want to try it, add it in slowly and see how she does, it affects different horses differently.

As for adding oils, they can help but they also can shoot straight through the digestive tract, literally. Some horse have more sensitive digestion than others and may end up with runny loose stools.

I switched my mare over to this particular feed because I was unhappy with the feed used at my barn. It was a sweet feed and high in starch, she did OK on it weight wise but she was a holy terror temperament wise. She is the only TB there and it just didn't suit her. It is a bit of a pain to feed her a separate feed to all the other horses but unfortanately it had to be done!

Last word of advice, see if Luvs2Ride can offer some feed suggestions (can't remember if that is the correct username or not) she is great with nutritional advice.

While she is gaining weight, you can work on some low energy excercises that will not burn up too many calories but still build topline - walking is surprisingly effective! Nice long and low work, serpentines, circles and hills (if you have any). Kills two birds with one stone - allows her to gain some weight but gets those long topline muscles working and strengthened! Good luck I wish you both the best.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks Buckcherry!

Sarah, here is the facts sheet of the feed she is currently on:

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/images/E018...HorseFeed2.pdf

Go to the 2nd page to see the nutritional info. It looks like the same type of feed you may have your mare on. At least the same protein percentage.

Can someone help me analyze this feed? I dont know how to figure the starches/sugars


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## RansomTB (Nov 2, 2010)

my tb came back from training and had lost about 300lbs. Yes he was a bit porky when he went there, but I still was very uneasy about all the weight he lost. 

Legends Rice Bran is amazing stuff, I think that someone else mentioned a rice bran, the nice thing about it is that it doesnt make them hot, and has a higher fat percentage to help with the weight gain. Its about $18 for a 50lb bag, I fed my tb about 1 1/2 scoops of grain with a half scoop of rice bran and he gained weight back in about 3 -4 months. He is now a healthy 1100 toned pounds and is happy as can be.


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## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

She might just not be getting enough food to maintian her body weight. On the bag it says how much she should be getting for a healthy body weight. 
If you don't want to increase the food she's on you might want to try switchin if it's possible. 
My local feed store is very educated about their feeds and the sugar/startch contents. You could try talking to them about which feed would be best for your horse.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, here goes! I couldn’t get your link to work BTW so I’ll just tell you what I know from analyzing my own feeds.

Whilst your feed and mine are similar in protein and fat percentage, I think they are very different in the _source_ of that protein and fat. This makes a big difference to starch/sugar content. Corn is one of the higher starch grains and so if your feed contains a lot of corn, I would guess that it is higher in starch/sugar. The composition of the feed itself makes a big difference in how it is metabolized by the horse. The reason I use a rice bran based pellet (has soybean meal also) is that you can get the same protein/fat but without the starch. In terms of the true protein level, check the lysine guarantee on the tag – that is a good indication of the amino acids present in the feed which is a good measure of digestible protein.

Second thing to mention is the milling process of the grains that go into the feed – some feeds use the whole grain, much of which is indigestible because it adds weight to the feed but takes less weight of raw grain. Grains that have been husked contain only the portion that can be digested. Some of this material (i.e. the husks) is beneficial for hindgut health as insoluble fiber but it is good to know how the grains were processed so that you can calculate weights of feed and forage accordingly. In un-pelleted feed you would be able to tell this somewhat by looking at your horses stools – if you can see a lot of husks then there was probably a lot of unprocessed grains in the feed. Pelleted feed has been processed so you can’t visualize this. This information will probably not be displayed on the label and might take some further investigation!

The method of producing the pellets also plays a role – steam extruded pellets make the nutrients more digestible and therefore you get more ‘bang for your buck’ from these feeds. Pellets that are just ground up and formed into pellets aren’t quite as digestible and you may need to feed more in weight in comparison to extruded pellets.

Lastly, the overall nutrition content of the feed makes a difference. In order for the horse to be able to digest all the good stuff, the right vitamins and trace minerals must be present. Thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, choline, folic acid, calcium, biotin and B-12 are all good things to have in your feed as well as probiotics for hindgut health. 

Hope this helps! To be honest, I think that she just needs more weight in food, probably more like 12-14 pounds per day for her workload, depending on the feed. I can understand if you don’t want to feed that much weight of her current feed so you may want to consider switching to something else. But seriously, if Luvs2ride is around or Loosie I think both of them are more knowledgeable with nutrition specifics than myself.


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## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks you all!

I got some good advice from Luvs in the Horse Nutrition section, so I think I am going to start her on that and see how she does.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The thing most folks feeding horses do not do is test their hay and WEIGH the feed. I fed dairy cattle (VASTLY different I know) and learned you need to know the number of pounds you feed and what the analysis is of your forage AND your grain. 

IOW's you feed "6 flakes of hay." How many pounds is that? What is the Neutral detergent fiber (this tells you the digestability), what is the Acid Detergent fiber? What is the protein? Energy? Available protein??? Fat?? These things are important! Feeding a nice green looking grass hay is fine.. but if the NDF is high, the horse can eat a LOT and not get a lot. If the hay was cured and compromised by weather the NDF can be pushed up and the available protein moved down. I bought a small load of alfalfa for my dairy cows once that tested 30% protein but was only 15% available protein because the stuff was baled too green and had some mold (non was fed to horses.. but if I had not tested it I woud have lost production by feeding the incorrect grain and incorrect amounts of grain). 

How much grain are you feeding? How many POUNDS (or kilo's if you are not in the US). How much FAT, Protein and Carbohydrate? 

Feeding a horse that is working and not an easy keeper requires you to know all of this.. and then to calculate what the horse needs to be a certain weight. That is the minimun. Then you tweak this for the individual animal. 

Once you calculate what your horse needs and what you have to feed in the hay department you can go ahead and balance the grain ration.


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