# Honest critiques wanted! :)



## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

Hello,

I would like two critiques.. BE HONEST!

One of my horse's conformation and overall look. 
His name is Shamrock and he is a six year old, 16 hh Quarter horse. He was my high school graduation present and my first horse! I got him from a man where he had absolutely no job but to eat grass and was told he was broke to ride, but hadn't been in over a year. I fell in love with him at first sight, without test riding him or seeing him ridden, and we bought him for $500. I know that this is BIG no-no in the equine world. However, I've seemed to luck out with him, the farrier and my trainer have had nothing but nice things to say about him. When I tried riding him for the first time, I realized that he didn't know simple commands. When I kicked, he backed up. I've been training him for around 6 months now (he's the first horse I've trained) and am proud to say he know walks, trots, canters, and is starting to jump! But that's just a little brag. 

EXCUSE THE BOOBOOS IN HIS PICTURE! This was taken not long after I got him & during the time when he was still being "initiated" into the herd in his pasture. 

Second of my equitation. 
I've been riding for around nine years. I only ride English and have only been taught to ride English. 

Thanks for your opinons!


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

Oh, and here's the link to a video.. let me know if it doesn't work!
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150361288023873


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## MyBrandy (Jan 19, 2011)

The video link doesn't work :-(


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

MyBrandy said:


> The video link doesn't work :-(


Is it because it's Facebook and my privacy settings on there?
I clicked on it and it went to it for me.

Try this.


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## MyBrandy (Jan 19, 2011)

Sorry - says video unavailable.. you should probably just post it on youtube..


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

*Working On It!*

It is uploading to YouTube now, bear with me!


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

*Video*

FINALLY.. The video!
Hope it works this time.


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## MyBrandy (Jan 19, 2011)

I don't know much about riding English, but it seems that you both are having a lot of fun - he looks very relaxed - good job


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

Thanks!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

First off, what discipline are you aiming for...hunters/dressage/event? It will greatly affect any critique I give.

You have a handsome guy, and I see no glaring conformation problems. I am a bit concerned that his trimming is so uneven on his front feet, causing longer toes on the LF.


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

I guess we're more leaning towards hunter. Definitely not dressage or event, though it'd be nice to try dressage eventually!

Thanks! Where do you see the trimming problem? Picture or video? It might be that the ground is so similarly colored to his feet that you can't tell, or maybe during a time in between trimmings when his feet started to grow out. I surely hope the farrier my barn uses isn't doing a poor job!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Your horse is a bit "slipper footed" in the photos. Toes long and heels low.. puts a LOT of pressure on the tendons along the back of the cannon bones in the front legs. 

He is also a bit long in the back. 

In the video he is a bit on his forehand and when you ask for the next gait, he rings his tail indicating either discomfort or displeasure at your leg on him. This is a common problem in a green horse.

I would stop using the whole ring and drop back to a trot. Work in HALF the ring.. and do things like circles.. spiral in and then out.. look at the center of the circle and keep your radius constant so the circle is round. 

Serpentines will also help your horse to become supple and learn to bend around your inside leg... so work at those. 

He is on his forehand (common again in a green horse). You need to teach him to extend and collect IN a gait (like the trot) so he becomes supple back to front in addition to supple around turns. The goal is to get your horse so you can ask for walk from a trot and he will stay balanced (hold together) and from a walk to a trot without any sign of resistance (tail ringing and so forth). In a gait like the trot (and eventually the canter) you want the horse to extend and collect. This will allow you to bring him back under your between fences (when you get to jumping) and to allow him to extend where he needs to so he finds the correct spot and can look natural going over a fence. This helps a lot when approaching a fence out of a turn or approaching and in and out or combination.... 

So... build a great foundation on your boy. Get him working his ring of muscles and learning to work off his hind quarters and to be supple. It takes a LONG time to build this but it is so worth it when you get it together. 

And don't forget to have FUN. Get out on the trail and train there too. Use hills (nice long trots up hills with his head low leaning INTO the hill) to build his abdominal muscles (necessary for collecting and being balanced). 

Looks like you are having a good time. Keep at this and this horse will teach you a huge amount!!!


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## sillyhorses (Sep 2, 2011)

He is a beautiful boy! The only glaringly obvious "faults" I see seem to be man-made... the wave in his coronet band should not be there, and is indicative of either an underlying hoof issue (think: Navicular disease), or substandard farrier/blacksmith work. Since I see no obvious lameness in the video, and no thick bands in the hoof to go with that coronet band, I'm leaning towards bad trim :/ 

Great job with him though! You guys look fabulous! What a deal you got, and how lucky for you that he has turned out so well!


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

Elana - Thanks for your input! I feel like this picture isn't very flattering of him. He doesn't usually have that "slipper" foot look. I've been working on extending him, but I'm not entirely sure what exercises to do. What do you suggest? I've tried alternating kicking at the walk, which is what I've been taught. But it's hard for me to tell if he's extending his legs or just moving faster. He usually doesn't swish his tail, I think part of that was there were people coming back from a trail ride and horses getting out of the trailer that were distracting him and he doesn't enjoy having to work while other horses get to play. Haha. I usually ride alone, so I can't go on trails, and our trails are relatively flat. What other exercises will build his abdominal muscles?

Sillyhorses - I've never noticed that wave before, but since I looked back at that photo, I see it in the right front. Next time I'm out, I'll check and see if it's still there. He certainly isn't lame, so I really hope he doesn't have navicular disease.. That's a scary thought. And I'll be upset if the farrier my trainer uses isn't doing his job right! I've always liked them and trusted their work so far!


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## sillyhorses (Sep 2, 2011)

sarahkgamble said:


> Sillyhorses - I've never noticed that wave before, but since I looked back at that photo, I see it in the right front. Next time I'm out, I'll check and see if it's still there. He certainly isn't lame, so I really hope he doesn't have navicular disease.. That's a scary thought. And I'll be upset if the farrier my trainer uses isn't doing his job right! I've always liked them and trusted their work so far!


Eek, sorry to scare you! It is also evident on the hind feet in the pictures... but most prominent in the front. If it were navicular, you'd probably be seeing lameness issues  As long as the rings of his hoof don't actually follow that shape (they don't look like they do, upon further inspection... your camera takes pretty clear pictures!!!!) navicular is not a concern  Sorry to scare you! If the bones in his feet were moving from pressure associated with such foot diseases, it would be reflected not only in the coronet band, but also in the rings of his feet (uneven bands, swollen bands, wavy bands, etc... they are kind of like tree rings and tell a good story about what is happening inside the foot, and in many cases, what has been happening with your horses overall health and/or diet). 

Definitely not getting evenly trimmed feet though! A good farrier, when questioned, would be able to pull out some measuring tools and demonstrate that your horse's feet are even and trimmed to suit his confirmation  It looks like your farrier is taking off the bottom of your horse's feet and dropping the heels too much. This makes the toes shoot out like they are in the picture  I think he might benefit from a higher angle! Keeping a horse on low angles will put a lot of stress on the tendons and ligaments in his legs, especially his the lower leg area... might not be noticeable at first, but over time it might start to cause problems. I bet you'll notice an improvement in the way he carries himself (even though there is no prominent lameness) once it is taken care of! Good luck!


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## cash113 (Nov 7, 2011)

Ok so first off I hope this helps.(LOL)

I was in the exact same position you were, I have a 15HH quarter horse gelding named Cash. I was only 9 when I got him, so I didn't have a lot of experience, but I loved soooo much. When I got him, he could walk,trot, and canter, that was it. And all of his gaits were mediocre, no extention no collection, and most of all, he and I rode western! I am now 12, and I have trained him to walk, trot,canter,(both extended and collected), hand gallop,back-up, and I've got him jumping 2ft. I might take him to a major show next year. Anyways so hopefully my story helped, it's seems as if you to have come a long way, if you guys keep working together you to will make an amazing pair. 

As for your equitation, I don't know how old you are, but I would guess 13 or 14, you did pretty good in the video I saw, the only thing I saw and crtique on is: don't cut off your corners when cantering I saw it especially on the back corners. That's it!! Hope this helps!!!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

That wave in the hoof *can* be nothing more than a sign that his feed quality/schedule changed dramatically. And, it was quite a while ago as it has grown out a good bit.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

sarahkgamble said:


> Elana - Thanks for your input! I feel like this picture isn't very flattering of him. He doesn't usually have that "slipper" foot look. I've been working on extending him, but I'm not entirely sure what exercises to do. What do you suggest? I've tried alternating kicking at the walk, which is what I've been taught. But it's hard for me to tell if he's extending his legs or just moving faster.


Do not kick a horse to get them to move forward.. squeeze with your calves.. PUSH him forward and as you do release with yourhands to encourage him to lower his head and take longer strides. Horses work best if you squeeze, release... then squeeze again.. get the horse reaching under himself with his hind leg and dropping his head so he can move forward. You get the horse forward before asking for any collection. 

At the walk sit up straight and ride him with a long-ish rein and use your legs to push him forward (NO kicking). If he does extend his strde, his head will drop and you will feel the hind leg reach under him. 

When he learns to move forward from your leg, then start circles.. use the entire half of the ring and make them round. See if you can get him to 'track up' or get his hind foot to place in the same track as his front foot (not butt in or butt out). In the circle you are looking for a steady and strong inside leg ON the girth and a more active outside leg BEHIND the girth. Use a leading rein to the inside of the circle and relax the outside rein (separate your hands). 

When you get this going for you in 1/2 the ring (it will take 1-2 weeks to get him doing this at the walk) start to spiral in toward the center of the circle and then back out. Watch for resistance and support him with your inside leg when you are doing this. Be sure to go equally in both directions. 

Keep changing things up. Don't just do one thing. Keep him interested and calm.. doable at the walk. 

When you get him moving forward and supple at the walk, start doing the same exercises at the trot....

Training a horse is a Long SLOW process. The horse needs to learn what you are asking and be physically and mentally able to respond. 

Only after you get him going forward well do you introduce collections and the half halt.... 

When someone watches you ride your leg aids to the horse should be subtle.. not overtly noticeable. Kicking is not necessary. If a horse deadens his leg to you, get a long dressage whip and use it immediately behind your outside leg. Usually you can just lay iton the horse and the horse will respond. Rare is the horse that needs you to actually pop him with the whip (tho I have had a few of those!)




> He usually doesn't swish his tail, I think part of that was there were people coming back from a trail ride and horses getting out of the trailer that were distracting him and he doesn't enjoy having to work while other horses get to play. Haha. I usually ride alone, so I can't go on trails, and our trails are relatively flat. What other exercises will build his abdominal muscles?


Distractions are part of riding. When he is distracted, have him do something he is very good at doing to take his mind off the distraction. I do not know your area or your skill level but I always rode my horse out alone.. trails and roads and so forth. 

Caveletti will help him build abdominal muscles (poles on the ground or up on blocks.. 4 of them.. spaced at first so he can walk through them and then space them so he can trot thru them.. match his strides at first). Remember to let him have his head so he can lower it, stretch out his back and curl his abdomin and pick his feet up hing.


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

sillyhorses said:


> Eek, sorry to scare you! It is also evident on the hind feet in the pictures... but most prominent in the front. If it were navicular, you'd probably be seeing lameness issues  As long as the rings of his hoof don't actually follow that shape (they don't look like they do, upon further inspection... your camera takes pretty clear pictures!!!!) navicular is not a concern  Sorry to scare you! If the bones in his feet were moving from pressure associated with such foot diseases, it would be reflected not only in the coronet band, but also in the rings of his feet (uneven bands, swollen bands, wavy bands, etc... they are kind of like tree rings and tell a good story about what is happening inside the foot, and in many cases, what has been happening with your horses overall health and/or diet).
> 
> Definitely not getting evenly trimmed feet though! A good farrier, when questioned, would be able to pull out some measuring tools and demonstrate that your horse's feet are even and trimmed to suit his confirmation  It looks like your farrier is taking off the bottom of your horse's feet and dropping the heels too much. This makes the toes shoot out like they are in the picture  I think he might benefit from a higher angle! Keeping a horse on low angles will put a lot of stress on the tendons and ligaments in his legs, especially his the lower leg area... might not be noticeable at first, but over time it might start to cause problems. I bet you'll notice an improvement in the way he carries himself (even though there is no prominent lameness) once it is taken care of! Good luck!


Thanks for the reassurance.  I'm not sure what to do about the farrier, I just use who my trainer uses & due to class, I haven't been out there lately to see them do his feet. I might have to find a new one though! But like I said before, this picture was taken not long after I got him & he had gotten his feet done right before he got moved. I can't remember if he had gotten his feet done again before this picture or not. But, he isn't with the old farrier anymore & hopefully that was his bad work and not my farrier's! I'll take a look at him next time I go out there and take an updated picture and post it. They just got their feet done Friday!


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

cash113 said:


> Ok so first off I hope this helps.(LOL)
> 
> I was in the exact same position you were, I have a 15HH quarter horse gelding named Cash. I was only 9 when I got him, so I didn't have a lot of experience, but I loved soooo much. When I got him, he could walk,trot, and canter, that was it. And all of his gaits were mediocre, no extention no collection, and most of all, he and I rode western! I am now 12, and I have trained him to walk, trot,canter,(both extended and collected), hand gallop,back-up, and I've got him jumping 2ft. I might take him to a major show next year. Anyways so hopefully my story helped, it's seems as if you to have come a long way, if you guys keep working together you to will make an amazing pair.
> 
> As for your equitation, I don't know how old you are, but I would guess 13 or 14, you did pretty good in the video I saw, the only thing I saw and crtique on is: don't cut off your corners when cantering I saw it especially on the back corners. That's it!! Hope this helps!!!


Thanks for the inspiration of your story! Good luck with the show you may go to!

You would guess wrong.. haha, I'm 18! 

I'll make a note of not cutting corners, thanks!


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> That wave in the hoof *can* be nothing more than a sign that his feed quality/schedule changed dramatically. And, it was quite a while ago as it has grown out a good bit.


Oh, thanks! Since the photo was taken not long before he moved, his feed did change. He went from being fed a cup of grain once a day and doing nothing but eating grass and an entire round bale to himself to being fed a half a scoop of pellets once a day and being turned out on grass half the day and sharing a round bale with 5 other geldings. I'd say that's a pretty significant difference. Plus the round bale quality at my barn is tons better than the one that he had in his pasture at his old place.


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

Elana said:


> Do not kick a horse to get them to move forward.. squeeze with your calves.. PUSH him forward and as you do release with yourhands to encourage him to lower his head and take longer strides. Horses work best if you squeeze, release... then squeeze again.. get the horse reaching under himself with his hind leg and dropping his head so he can move forward. You get the horse forward before asking for any collection.
> 
> At the walk sit up straight and ride him with a long-ish rein and use your legs to push him forward (NO kicking). If he does extend his strde, his head will drop and you will feel the hind leg reach under him.
> 
> ...


I guess I worded that wrong, I didn't mean to indicate that I kick, it definitely is squeezing, not kicking. I do have a crop, but I hate using it. He's gotten to where just having it does the trick and he livens up a bit, I rarely ever actually have to use it. Early on, he was lazy from not being ridden in a while and not knowing what to do, so we used it. And he would only canter with one, but now I usually bring it to the arena but leave it on the fence!

Thanks for your input, I'll try those exercises with him! 





Elana said:


> are part of riding. When he is distracted, have him do something he is very good at doing to take his mind off the distraction. I do not know your area or your skill level but I always rode my horse out alone.. trails and roads and so forth.
> 
> Caveletti will help him build abdominal muscles (poles on the ground or up on blocks.. 4 of them.. spaced at first so he can walk through them and then space them so he can trot thru them.. match his strides at first). Remember to let him have his head so he can lower it, stretch out his back and curl his abdomin and pick his feet up hing.


I wouldn't have any objection to riding him alone in the woods, sometimes I think it'd be better that way because he also reacts to what the horse in front of him reacts to. However, my trainer/the barn owner doesn't allow us to ride out alone for safety reasons. We can ride out of the ring within eyesight of the barn though, which includes a ditch that runs perpendicular to the woods, the driveway and a dirt road. I could use that.

I'll start using caveletti to build up his ab muscles, thanks!


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## sillyhorses (Sep 2, 2011)

sarahkgamble said:


> Oh, thanks! Since the photo was taken not long before he moved, his feed did change.


I read your responses about the pictures being from when you first got him  It will probably take a bit for the hoof to reflect the work of the new farrier - hopefully he is correcting things!!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I thought you looked pretty good, and considering you self trained, you get a gold star from me. So much great advice , I have nothing more to add but that I think you two have great potential.


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

sillyhorses said:


> I read your responses about the pictures being from when you first got him  It will probably take a bit for the hoof to reflect the work of the new farrier - hopefully he is correcting things!!!


Well, it's been a little over six months since I got him, but I really do hope the farrier now is doing it right and correcting it. My trainer has been using the same guys for a really long time and hasn't had any problems with her horses. Two other boarders use different farriers, though, so now that I know what to look for, if his feet still look like that after getting them done, I'll ask who they use and make the switch!


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I thought you looked pretty good, and considering you self trained, you get a gold star from me. So much great advice , I have nothing more to add but that I think you two have great potential.


Thank you!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

when I was training I ALWAYS carried a crop (one in each hand actually.. a long dressage whip.. to back up my leg pressure and get the horse to respond to lighter and lighter pressure). I always wore spurs as well. 

Neither is mean or bad to use unless you make it mean or bad. 

Keep up the good work!

Take another photo of him on level ground and set up nicely if you can (not in the dirt or on turf) so we can see his feet and the angles and how they all related.


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

Elana said:


> when I was training I ALWAYS carried a crop (one in each hand actually.. a long dressage whip.. to back up my leg pressure and get the horse to respond to lighter and lighter pressure). I always wore spurs as well.
> 
> Neither is mean or bad to use unless you make it mean or bad.
> 
> ...


I definitely will, hopefully today if I get the chance to go out there before it gets dark. I hate that it gets dark early now!


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## cash113 (Nov 7, 2011)

sarahkgamble said:


> Thanks for the inspiration of your story! Good luck with the show you may go to!
> 
> You would guess wrong.. haha, I'm 18!
> 
> I'll make a note of not cutting corners, thanks!


Your welcome, sorry didn't mean to think you were 14, but I hope you liked it.


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

cash113 said:


> Your welcome, sorry didn't mean to think you were 14, but I hope you liked it.


Haha, it's fine. I get mistaken to be younger than I am ALL the time, but I guess that'll work in my favor once I get real old.  Never 13-14 though.. Haha.


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

I went to the barn yesterday and rode & he did GREAT! I've had a bit of a problem lately with him wanting to put his head down, but we're fixing it and my new method of just holding the reins firm when he tries to put his head down is working. He might take a few strides with me holding firm with his head trying to go down, but then he'll slowly inch it back up. Then I soften and praise him. It worked much better than the advice I had gotten to yank one rein straight up. Besides keeping his head up, we're working on getting him more on his hind end & carrying himself better. We did circles in every corner and the walk and trot with serpentines down the long sides of the arena at the walk/trot. Then we did an exercise where we walk, halt, back up, then trot off for ten strides and bring him back down and do it all over again. We also did trotting poles so that he will learn to carry himself properly. He did very good with all of the exercises! We threw in some cantering here & there, he did his transitions well. Then I rewarded him by taking him out of the ring and walking and trotting around the barn yard. He was a very good boy!

I keep forgetting to get pictures because I ride until it's dark. But I'll be out again today and since he did so awesome yesterday, I probably won't ride for long and will get some pictures taken for all to see!


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## sarahkgamble (Nov 7, 2011)

FINALLY got another picture of his hooves today! Sorry it's still on dirt, there isn't much else out at the barn. Haha.
See it here, I can't get it to attach. Haha.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sarahhhkg/6345238469/


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