# Opinions on possible mule purchase



## Roux

I am looking for a saddle mule here are my criteria: 

John mule
Broke and neck reins
15HH or more
Trail experience a plus 

I will be using him for trail riding, English (jumping), some cow work for branding etc - so an all around horse and I don't compete at anything. I do have a trainer who I take English lessons from the rest I do on my own. 

There are just not a lot of mules for sale around where I live. (So far I have found some unbroke mules and the one I found the seller didn't call me back). There is a mule auction about 6hrs away from me in Feb. but I don't have any auction experience and that makes me nervous. 

This guy is about 8hrs away from me but is closer to some family so I am going to be in the area on Jan. 23rd for a Birthday party and am planning on looking at him then:

https://fortcollins.craigslist.org/grd/5380951222.html

I spoke with the seller today. She said he has a strong appaloosa personality and can be shy at first but is sweet when he gets to know you and like you. He has been ridden on the trail extensively and crosses water and bridges etc. She thinks he came off a ranch and he does neck rein. She does not know if he has ever been roped off of. He hasn't been rode English or jumped to her knowledge. No shoes now as it is winter but he is easy to show and load etc. 

I have 3 concerns: 

1. She said the mule doesn't like men. I am female and it will be me, my mom and my daughter riding and working with the mule. I have owned horses that like women better and it wasn't a big deal but in a mule I am wondering if this is a red flag?

2. The seller is not comfortable with strangers riding at her property. I get that if there was an accident she doesn't want to deal with that but how can she expect people to buy an animal and not ride it? She didn't say I couldn't ride him but said she would have to see how me and mule get along first. 

3. Price, I fully expected to pay between $4,000 and $6,000 for a mule that has what I am looking for. She has the price at $2,000. What am I missing???

Also if you are selling a mule or know of one for sale that you think I might be interested in let me know! I can go to New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and West Texas!

Also if you read all this cookies to you!


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## Cherie

I would not touch a mule that I could not go and try out. Your price you are thinking is realistic but I would not tell anyone what you are willing to pay because that is what they will ask for their $1500.00 mule.

We have sold many mules in that price range and even higher back when i could ride and train them. The were absolutely 'solid' and anyone could come and ride them anywhere here that they wanted. Id did not let them out on trial, but they could ride them to their heart's content here or on the trails around here.

I have gone with several people to help them buy mules. I did NOT want the mule caught and saddled up when we came. I wanted to watch the person go out and catch and saddle the mule, fresh. 

I never got on a mule that the seller did not saddle and climb right on without 'cheating' it or taking special precautions. I wanted a mule to just ride off like it should. If it didn't, we did not look any farther.

I didn't want a mule with a 'list'. This mule already has a growing list and you haven't even got there to look at it yet.

Like I said, I no longer can train them, but I do have a couple of friends that are great trainers and sell a lot of mules to people that are very happy with them. 

I probably would also not buy a mule in that price range from someone that was not a very experienced 'mule person'. They are just too smart and too good at training a person that is not real experienced with them. 

I will PM the name and phone number of one person to you that does not live far from me -- maybe 25 miles. If he has anything, I would not mind talking to him about the mule or even looking at it. He is good guy and really good mule man.

Cherie


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## Roux

Thanks for all your insight!

I agree about the list and everything you said. I would love to get a PM from you, Oklahoma might not be out of the question! 

If the mule is saddled and tied when I get there then its a no go. I am not going to fall for any tricks especially with a mule. I am new to mules and I am looking for a mule that is more babysitter than project. 

Do you know why mules seem to be sold at auction more than by private sellers? Several people I have talked to told me that their mules are consigned to auction (Bishop, Jake Clark, Leavette) already. 

I haven't been to an auction before and I am wary of that being a good idea given my experience level.


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## thecolorquest

Mule, horse, pony, truck, car. If you can't test drive it, don't buy it. That's a normal price range for a mule. Nothing wrong with going to a GOOD sale (like Bishop) and finding a mule -but they will let you try it out ahead of time. Last thing anyone needs is a fearful equine.


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## Roux

I definitely wouldn't buy without riding. I am thinking that having a seller tell me that maybe can ride is too much of a red flag for me. Either the Mule is lame, not reliable or they don't really want to sell. 

What are your thoughts about buying from an outfitter?


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## Cherie

Roux said:


> I definitely wouldn't buy without riding. I am thinking that having a seller tell me that maybe can ride is too much of a red flag for me. Either the Mule is lame, not reliable or they don't really want to sell.
> 
> What are your thoughts about buying from an outfitter?


 You do not want to buy a mule from an outfitter unless the mule was the outfitter's personal saddle mule. All Of the others will only want to follow the horse or mule in front of them.

I would not worry nearly as much about a lame mule that a mule just being poorly trained and they have trained the person as to what they will tolerate instead of the way it is supposed to be. 

You want Vet check (PPE) and a mule that can be shod and handled by anyone. Not some fussy mule that wants things his way.

I am also curious as to why you want a John and not a Molly. Molly mules are usually considered to be better saddle mules and more gentle natured. Most do not come with the problems that people associate with horse mares. We do not have a problem with horse mares, but a lot of people like geldings better. As a general rule, mule people like Mollys better and they are usually worth more $$$.


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## Roux

I was thinking John so he would get along with my other gelding and the herd at my barn?

In the winter they are stalled outside and turned out daily but in summer they are on pasture. 

The herd has always been only geldings until this year they added one mare and she was always a bother. I wasn't sure if adding a Molly in the mix would be ok. 

Of course I know it's dependent on the animal and no general rule applies. 

I've always had gelding never a mare. And it would be my mom on her gelding and me on my mule so I want a harmonious pair. 

I did read that people who like mules like Mollys better but I wasn't sure how she would fit in. 

I've never owned a female anything. Not a dog, cat, horse etc!


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## Cherie

In your situation, I would probably stick with a John.


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## george the mule

Hi Roux!

Have you handled and worked with mules? Horses?

If you are used to working with horses, you are in for a surprise with Mr. Mule.

If you haven't had the _pleasure_, I would strongly suggest that you find an opportunity to interact with some of the longears clan before deciding to bring one home. They're really not much like horses.

ByeBye! Steve (and George_the_Half-assed ;-)

PS: Walden is a "mountain" town, closer to Steamboat Springs than Ft. Collins, and probably "donkey" deep in snow at the moment. Not likely to be much riding available there before the spring thaw in any event.


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## george the mule

Hi Again, Roux!

Also, if you don't mind the drive north, here are a couple of Colorado groups that can probably help you on your quest.

Pikes Peak Longears Association (Colorado Springs)
Pikes Peak Long Ears Association

Rocky Mountain Longears Association (Fort Collins)
Welcome

You might also contact Meredith Hodges at Lucky Three Ranch, also in Ft. Collins
Mule, Donkey & Horse Training with Meredith Hodges | Lucky Three Ranch

Mules of high renown.

Steve


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## Saddlebag

Not a mule person but I'd lose interest as soon as the seller said he has a strong appaloosa personality. I've know of some excellent appys but someone a long time ago tagged them as being difficult. Usually it's by people who have little experience with them.


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## Roux

George - Thanks for the additional resources. I have done a lot of reading on the Lucky Three Ranch site already. 

This is my first mule but have kept horses for over 10 years. 

My only experience with mules was at farrier school, I trimmed and did shoes for two different mules and they were both excellent clients. 

I have friends who have had mules but don't know anyone who has a mule currently except my BO who has a mini mule that is mostly a companion animal for a mini horse. So I have a few resources in person.

There is a Mule association here but they don't seem to be very active. 

I am definitely not rushing into anything. I am doing my homework as far as purchasing and ownership. That is why I am being so picky as far as my first purchase goes. 

Saddlebag - I tend to agree with you. My mom had an an appy growing up and they had their ups and downs, to say the least. I have rode one who I didn't get along with at all (he had a rearing issue that was a little scary if you weren't ready for it) but I also know one is who is the BEST kids rodeo horse. So I know they can be less then ideal. 



Well the search is still on. I am going to watch an auction in Arizona on the first weekend of Feb. I am not going with the intention of buying but more to get the feel of the auctions and learn more about mules and what to look at etc.


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## 6gun Kid

Stacy Carpenter at 4-C ranch in Ovilla (Dallas), TX. I will pm you the number


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## Roux

Thanks 6Gun!!

I found another one close to me:

https://santafe.craigslist.org/grd/5409285631.html


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## CowboyBob

Cherie said:


> I would not touch a mule that I could not go and try out.





Cherie said:


> I did NOT want the mule caught and saddled up when we came. I wanted to watch the person go out and catch and saddle the mule, fresh.
> 
> I never got on a mule that the seller did not saddle and climb right on without 'cheating' it or taking special precautions. I wanted a mule to just ride off like it should. If it didn't, we did not look any farther.
> 
> I didn't want a mule with a 'list'. This mule already has a growing list and you haven't even got there to look at it yet.


^^^100% agree^^^
The *only* thing I would add is asking how well does the mule like shots and worming.

I learned the hard way about looking at someones horse that was worked right before I showed up.:icon_rolleyes: The horse was very different once I got her home:sad: and not for the better. Now when I go to look at horses I want the fresh and dirty if I show up and the horse is saddled and has been worked before I get there, I a nicely ride them, then tell the owner I would like to come back another day if they are close. If I drove a long ways with a trail and the horse has been worked before hand I will offer half take it or leave it.


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## stanbrown0125

I live in Northern Arizona. I will say this and this: you have been given great advise and NONE of which I disagree with. One of the chief points I'd like to make is to seriously consider the choice of a Mule vs another horse. That said; I'd take a descent mule over a good horse any day BUT, and it's a big BUT: you have to understand a mule is not a horse and most horse equestrians get most frustrated by the most potentially frustrating qualities of a mule because they tack, ride and treat a mule the same way they do a horse. They look SO similar from the head down that a horse equestrian NATURALLY saddles and rides them the same way and the fact is; a horse saddle (even with extra blankets) HURTS the mule. Their shoulders move on a different plane. A horse (well as much as personality dictates) will put up with some discomfort. It wants to please the rider. A mule won't put up with a DANGED bit of physical discomfort or uneasiness about it's surroundings. Unless it's carrot and petting time, that mule cares a LOT more about itself than you!! A horse has a sense of self preservation. It will forego that to please it's rider or to obey its rider; even if it means its own demise. We have ALL heard many stories of that horse that the rider had to ride to it's death because of an emergency with the rider and we all go "Awww. Wonderful horse. it will be truly missed." You will NEVER, EVER, EVER hear that story of a mule! They don't have a SENSE of self-preservation. They have an incredibly powerful DEDICATION to self-preservation. If it hurts or is something the mule senses isn't right, it ain't happening and no manner of Horseman(or woman)-ship will make it do something it thinks is going to hurt it or continue to hurt it. ()% of problems folks have w/ mules is horse-folk not understanding that a mule is NOT a horse and trying to ride it like they do a horse. The other 10% is poor training which affects both horses and mules. Mules more; though. Us Mule folk in AZ tend to look to Steve Edwards down in Queen Valley, east of Phoenix, for our Mule stuff. He makes the best mule saddles too, though that isn't his primary thing. His saddles don't HURT the mules like regular horse saddles with extra padding do. He just happens to be THE Mule Man in AZ and knows mules better than probably anyone in the US. Staff all learned from him so you got the best there too. One thing to keep in mind if you DO visit (which I encourage any first time Muler to do); Steve and his family are Christians and they don't abide by a bunch of cussin' and over drinkin' and such. You will probably hear about his Faith and you will DEFINITELY know where the behavior boundaries are. LOL. BUT; if you want the BEST mule Man in the Land? Steve and his clan are tops in the AZ Long Ears' books!!


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## Roux

stanbrown0125 said:


> I live in Northern Arizona. I will say this and this: you have been given great advise and NONE of which I disagree with. One of the chief points I'd like to make is to seriously consider the choice of a Mule vs another horse. That said; I'd take a descent mule over a good horse any day BUT, and it's a big BUT: you have to understand a mule is not a horse and most horse equestrians get most frustrated by the most potentially frustrating qualities of a mule because they tack, ride and treat a mule the same way they do a horse. They look SO similar from the head down that a horse equestrian NATURALLY saddles and rides them the same way and the fact is; a horse saddle (even with extra blankets) HURTS the mule. Their shoulders move on a different plane. A horse (well as much as personality dictates) will put up with some discomfort. It wants to please the rider. A mule won't put up with a DANGED bit of physical discomfort or uneasiness about it's surroundings. Unless it's carrot and petting time, that mule cares a LOT more about itself than you!! A horse has a sense of self preservation. It will forego that to please it's rider or to obey its rider; even if it means its own demise. We have ALL heard many stories of that horse that the rider had to ride to it's death because of an emergency with the rider and we all go "Awww. Wonderful horse. it will be truly missed." You will NEVER, EVER, EVER hear that story of a mule! They don't have a SENSE of self-preservation. They have an incredibly powerful DEDICATION to self-preservation. If it hurts or is something the mule senses isn't right, it ain't happening and no manner of Horseman(or woman)-ship will make it do something it thinks is going to hurt it or continue to hurt it. ()% of problems folks have w/ mules is horse-folk not understanding that a mule is NOT a horse and trying to ride it like they do a horse. The other 10% is poor training which affects both horses and mules. Mules more; though. Us Mule folk in AZ tend to look to Steve Edwards down in Queen Valley, east of Phoenix, for our Mule stuff. He makes the best mule saddles too, though that isn't his primary thing. His saddles don't HURT the mules like regular horse saddles with extra padding do. He just happens to be THE Mule Man in AZ and knows mules better than probably anyone in the US. Staff all learned from him so you got the best there too. One thing to keep in mind if you DO visit (which I encourage any first time Muler to do); Steve and his family are Christians and they don't abide by a bunch of cussin' and over drinkin' and such. You will probably hear about his Faith and you will DEFINITELY know where the behavior boundaries are. LOL. BUT; if you want the BEST mule Man in the Land? Steve and his clan are tops in the AZ Long Ears' books!!


I spoke with a man named Buck over the phone about the Mule Sale in Queens Valley. The sale is the first week in February and he said they are expecting 50-70 mules. Ty Evans is hosting a clinic there on Wed-Thurs and the auction is on Saturday. I will be attending the auction but I can't take off work for the clinic right now. 
Luckily for me there is another Ty Evans Mulemanship clinic by me in October that I will be going to. 

I am not going to try to make my horse tack fit the mule but I am also waiting to see which mule I buy before buying a saddle that will potentially not fit. I am going to purchase a saddle made for mules. In fact that is how I found that the first seller might not let me ride. I said, "I doubt any of my saddles will fit him very well, would it be ok to use the tack he is comfortable in for the test ride(s)?" 

I have three western saddles and my English saddle but I have accepted that they are probably not going to work and I will be once again replacing my tack. (Actually not that upset, I haven't had a new saddle in 5 years lol)

I am definitely interested in getting a saddle from Steve Edwards and I am hoping to look at some then. I also have my eye on a plantation saddle maker though so we will see. I enjoy trail riding, some cow work, some roping (I'm not very good though), and English riding and jumping. With my horses I do everything and my Mule will be the same plus some ****-jumping! Which means I will probably be in the market for more then one mule saddle eventually.

At this point, it is not a question of horse vs. mule but rather which mule to buy. I have been contemplating, researching, reading and watching about mules but at some point you just have to say, I'm ready and jump in. 

I am using the same logic for my first mule as you should a first horse. Don't get a foal, don't get a young un-broke or green broke, don't get a project etc. That is why I have crossed so many adds off my list. I am looking for a well trained, experiences, sane and safe mule.

I am not taking getting a mule lightly. I know they are very different from horses. There is so much about what is written about them that is so appealing to me I just have to find out for myself. You yourself said you would take a decent mule over a good horse and that is the general consensus of people who like mules. 

One thing that bugs me though is I have read a thousand times, "You can't treat a mule like a horse. You can't ride a mule like a horse." I KNOW but HOW do YOU do it then? 

I honestly don't find that bit of advice very helpful. I obviously have been reading and researching on my own and I think I have my own understanding of the answer. I found this article to be helpful (and after reading it I realized that is exactly what I did with my Gelding who wouldn't cross water, bridges, train tracks, etc the first summer I had him and was a respectable, fun and safe trail mount when I sold him 3.5 years later.)
Crossing Water

Something I am thinking: You can't ride a mule like it is a horse but some horses you can ride like they are mules?

Anyway I appreciate your thoughts and your recommendation of Steve Edwards saddles and abilities!


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## george the mule

Roux said:


> One thing that bugs me though is I have read a thousand times, "You can't treat a mule like a horse. You can't ride a mule like a horse." I KNOW but HOW do YOU do it then?
> 
> I honestly don't find that bit of advice very helpful. I obviously have been reading and researching on my own and I think I have my own understanding of the answer. I found this article to be helpful (and after reading it I realized that is exactly what I did with my Gelding who wouldn't cross water, bridges, train tracks, etc the first summer I had him and was a respectable, fun and safe trail mount when I sold him 3.5 years later.)
> Crossing Water
> 
> Something I am thinking: You can't ride a mule like it is a horse but some horses you can ride like they are mules?
> 
> Anyway I appreciate your thoughts and your recommendation of Steve Edwards saddles and abilities!


Hi Roux!

Ooh. Books have been written on the subject; I've probably read most of them, and none were particularly useful "on the ground" :-(

It's not something that can readily be _taught_, you just have to learn it. I know that doesn't make sense, but it will once you get there and look back.

I will share some tidbits from our local mule guru that started me down the path to enlightenment:

"You can tell a horse what to do, and you can ask a donkey, but you _negotiate_ with a mule."

"Mules respond to pressure differently than horses. Horses move away from pressure, mules push back. Negative reinforcement is generally not very useful with a mule."

"You don't want to put your mule in a situation where he will refuse to perform. Rather, you need to anticipate how he will respond, and cue for that ahead of his response."

Thus, over time, your desire becomes his cue; you are on the same page, and he will amaze you with the things he will do for you. I know this sounds kinda mystical, but it works, and in answer to one of your questions, once you learn this negotiation, it works even better with a horse.

I have not heard 100% satisfaction with the Steve Edwards saddles. Mules come in all different shapes and sizes, just like horses. The saddle has to fit the animal. George is shaped like a barrel, and we went thru several saddles that _almost_ fit before opting for a custom Synergist saddle. Even at that, it took some work on their part to get it dialed in, but now we have a saddle that "clicks" into place on his rotundity, and is side-to-side stable, even with a loose cinch. We still have to use a breast collar and breeching for fore and aft stability.

I guess the take-home message is: "What works is what works, what people say works needs to be evaluated in practice before assigning creditability. Including my $.02, BTW.

Hope this is helpful. Steve (and George the Mule)


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## thecolorquest

Long time quote... "To train a mule, one must first be smarter than the mule". They are half horse and half donkey. Part of them responds like a horse, part like a donkey. Study donkeys to understand mules. The fight-or-flight response. Why donkeys don't like to lunge (boredom...) How to work with donkeys. Read Meredith's books. Then test ride a dozen mules, whether they are your cup of tea or not (say you hate his looks but are told he rides a dream - ride him anyway). Get the feel for some of the nuances. Mules will be more varied in reactions than horses, as well. They can't help it, they are hybrids, and highly sensitive ones.


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## Roux

Well the seller of the Molly has cancled on me twice. And it's a bit of a drive so that's that for me.

Still planning on going to the sale in Az but not sure how it will go. Any tips? I am planning on bringing an experienced auction person with me but he might not be able to make it.

Is their a Mule forum like HF out there? I did a little search on Google and didn't see one...


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## jgnmoose

Interesting thread. I'm interested in purchasing a Mule some day. Good luck with your search!


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## Roux

Found out that Reese Brothers are bringing some mules to the sale.

Any one have any experience or opinions that would be helpful?


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## thecolorquest

Plenty of longears groups on Facebook. Try one of those?


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## Roux

Its a good suggestion, I don't do Facebook so I have a friend looking for me. 

I am going to see this guy on Thursday:
https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/grd/5425610657.html


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