# Dread going to this barn - 4 lessons left on package



## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Can you ask them, kindly, why they feel like you need to be on a lunge line and if there is something you need to improve before coming off? It may be that they're seeing something that someone else isn't...or that they're just not a great facility. Give them the benefit of the doubt first though, and request an explanation!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you say your riding is solid? in 4 months? that is pretty amazing. yes, ask them why you are on a longe line, and be prepared to accept if they say you still need work. I would take every advantage of these lessons. ask if you can drop your reins and stirrups and go for it! lunge line lessons are worth their weight in gold. well, not THAT much.


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

Oh hail no. My riding is not solid, it's MORE solid than 4 ,moths ago of course , I hope. 

What I'm trying to say is, I'm not quite learning anything new coz all they so is lunge me trotting. No transition, at first it was good coz I was starting from zero. 

I would love to work on my eat and not worrying about steering, their lesson horse would make the circle super tiny if I don't control him....

I would want to work on making my body rock less during canter, so that would be great, but god forbid they may not let me canter even on a lunge line. A again, I'm not saying I'm solid or anything, but I really want to take the opportunity to use the lunge lesson to work on cantering, and think I should be ok ? Maybe not coz that horse won't move. I've been doing lots of cantering exercises, two point, over poles, bareback, stirup less,etc, but I felt like my body is not totally relax, and the more soft I want it to be to move with the horse, the sloppier it looks.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

I've seen a few posts recently about people basically running into problems with their barn and wanting to discontinue lessons, but have already paid for a lesson package.

How common is it to pay for a package of lessons at a time? Except for at my old barn where paying for "monthly training" with two lessons a week, everywhere else that I've known has you pay by the individual lesson. Do you get a discount as opposed to paying for individual lessons? Or are buying them individually not an option? How many lessons typically come in a package?

Sorry for hijacking your thread, but this is an unusual concept to me and I've been riding for over 10 years. Guess maybe it's just not so common in my area!

To the original question... I guess if I were in your situation I would just ask them WHY they require you to be on the lunge line, and why they are required to help you tack up. To me, it is utterly ridiculous that after months of riding here and tacking your own lease horse up successfully that you still have to do that. I can understand taking 5 minutes before the lesson begins for a tack and equipment check, but no way would I pay for that. If I were you, I'd speak to the barn owner, trainer, whoever you give your money about your concerns. Say that while h/j is your passion, you are interested in bettering your riding through dressage. That you would be interested in purchasing another package of lessons, but not if things stay as they are. That you will probably move to another barn completely once these lessons are finished if you aren't given the opportunity to tack up your own horse and actually spend your lesson time riding! 

I do say, try to make the best of your lunge lessons since you have already paid for them. Is the trainer giving you any pointers or advice as you're trotting around, or are you just trotting for 25 minutes around her? I'd ask her if you can work on your seat by dropping the reins, and doing walk/trot transitions. If she won't let you drop the reins, I'd hold them on a very loose contact while you work on your seat.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

I can see why you're frustrated! I had two longe line lessons and then was "turned loose." Tacking up is never included in lesson time. 

I would probably finish out my paid lessons and then move on without looking back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think it is relatively common to buy a "package" of lessons. not rare around here.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> I think it is relatively common to buy a "package" of lessons. not rare around here.


It is around here, as well - we've been at our current lesson barn for a year now and still pay by the lesson, as do most others AFAIK. The school keeps their customers with quality lessons and personable behaviour, not contracts or prepaid lock-ins.

As for paying to tack your horse, that's patently ridiculous IMHO. So out of a 45 minute lesson you're only getting about 20 minutes in the saddle? You'll never make much progress that way - perhaps that's still why they feel you need to be a longe line 4 months in?

I wouldn't ever ride at a barn where I had to pay for tacking time. At our barn, even the newbie kids who simply don't know HOW to tack don't have it taken out of their lesson time - either the horse is tacked up already when they arrive if time is tight, or they learn before their lesson clock starts ticking. Often the senior students will help the newbies out out as well - tacking is something you shouldn't be paying to learn beyond maybe the most primary of lessons. At 4 months in you should be compent at tacking and shouldn't NEED help unless your horse is a miscreant who should arguably not be a lesson horse to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, in the beginning the coaches will overlook and check the tack carefully for a beginner - might need to quickly reposition a saddle or redo crossed leather on a bridle (common newbie mistakes), but once a rider has shown that they can compeently do the the basics they do that on their own time before a lesson, not during lesson time.

I'd finish up your lessons there and then seek out a new barn.


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

Tacking time was included in some lessons I taught. 
Private lessons until the students were comfortable enough to tack up 'alone' wih me or someone else pottering around barn nearby. Or our group lessons. These were a 3hr group for kids which included chores, catching and tacking their own horses and giving them lunch / dinner. 

No way would I charge someone competent. 

I'd ask the instructor why they still have you on the lunge, what is their plan for your progression.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I would not be offended or saddened by the longe training. I have been riding for over 20 years and still have an occasional longe line lesson w/ no reins. It really helps you to get the feel and work on your balance and tweak the small things.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Before I had a horse I would buy lesson packages because there was usually some perks to doing so. I usually had a guaranteed consistent timeslot (instead of scheduling each one individually) and had a discount off the price.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

Working on the lunge line can be very helpful if it's done correctly. Are they not using side reins on the horse? The whole purpose of the lunge line is to work on your seat so they usually take your reins away, attach side reins to the horse and then the instructor works the horse with a lunge whip and voice commands. If you are having to steer the horse on the lunge line, it takes away from your ability to work on your seat. 

Regarding the tacking up time, could you arrange to arrive a little early so that you can tack up the horse and get it ready to go? That way it doesn't cut into your lesson time.


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

They were using a side rein, but the trainer kept telling me to steer the horse that's making the circle smaller and smaller. I have no problem and I'm no problem nor am I offended being on a lunge line. I ride on my own at the other barn all the time, so I actually would like to be able to learn something on lunge line. 

But I'm not sure what they are teaching me, I warn up for 5 min and I literally have another 15 min left. I've never been on a lunge line other than this place so I wasn't sure how it was suppose to be done 

As for tacking, they think that it's unsafe unless they watch you during the whole process...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

It's ok if they want to watch you during the tacking up process but that shouldn't come out of your riding time. Steering while being lunged IMO defeats the purpose of the lunge lesson. 

I would ask if they can change the format for the remaining lessons (off the lunge), and also ask if there is anything that can be done so that the tacking up time does not get deducted from your lesson time.


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

Frlsgirl- very good suggestions! I actually like being on the lunge line if they are willing to take away the rein from me, I would love to be able to work a little on my canter seat, but who knows, they may think that I'm totally incapable of cantering and may fall off?


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Have you told them about your goal of sitting the canter better? Maybe they think you are happy with the current instruction? While I love the idea of having a good seat before moving on, I agree you can only learn so much trotting around in circles. I would talk to the instructor, mention that you have only so many lessons left in the package and would like to work on the canter before your lessons run out. That would at least force an answer on if they intend to stay on the current boring course.


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

No I haven't. I wanted to check in he first in fear that it will come across that I'm full of myself, thinking that after 4 months of riding, I'm too good to be on lunge line. When I wrote my original post, someone thought I meant that after 4 months, I'm solid. What I meant was I was better than I was 4 months ago. More solid was what I wrote, maybe my English or expression was bad.
I don't want to come across that I'm too good to be on a lunge line,,.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

FWIW riders at our barn are NEVER started on a longe line. They work independently on the slow/pokey horses in the small arena until they are safe to move to the big group arena, and then they move. Longes are never used, and I've seen a lot of success stories and nothing more than a "I fell off" so far as injuries, and even that is very, very seldom.

I'd think that after 4 months you should be riding 100% independently unless you're a very timid or unsure rider. Ultimately only you can gauge that as we haven't seen you ride, but if you think you should be riding more independently...speak up - it's possible your coach is thinking that YOU want more basic groundwork. Tell him/her what you want, and if he/she thinks it's safe you should move on immediately.


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## remka (Aug 2, 2013)

tinily, my family used to buy ten group lessons for 100 Euro, at one barn, and at the other pay for them monthly. The lessons at the one barn were distributed among my older brother and sister and mother, and mine were mostly at the monthly barn. (I was younger, more of a scaredy cat, I needed one on one lessons) It was like this for a good long while.


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

Oshawapilot said:


> FWIW riders at our barn are NEVER started on a longe line. They work independently on the slow/pokey horses in the small arena until they are safe to move to the big group arena, and then they move. Longes are never used, and I've seen a lot of success stories and nothing more than a "I fell off" so far as injuries, and even that is very, very seldom.
> 
> I'd think that after 4 months you should be riding 100% independently unless you're a very timid or unsure rider. Ultimately only you can gauge that as we haven't seen you ride, but if you think you should be riding more independently...speak up - it's possible your coach is thinking that YOU want more basic groundwork. Tell him/her what you want, and if he/she thinks it's safe you should move on immediately.


I am 100% independent rider at my man barn, I have a lease horse that I take out on trail rides, open field rides alone, I ride bareback all the time too. I just wasn't sure if this barn is diff. 

If the lunge season teaches me something, I don't mind, but going in circle trotting doesn't help me :/


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Fayewokf said:


> I am 100% independent rider at my man barn, I have a lease horse that I take out on trail rides, open field rides alone, I ride bareback all the time too. I just wasn't sure if this barn is diff.
> 
> If the lunge season teaches me something, I don't mind, but going in circle trotting doesn't help me :/


Maybe ask them what they think you're learning, then. Do they know that you are a skilled rider outside of their barn? Maybe this is just part of their hard-wired lesson program that everyone goes through and they just aren't aware of the fact that you might not need it. 

Unless they're seeing something you're not.

Ultimately, communication is key - talk to them about what's happening and get input, and give input.


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

Oshawapilot said:


> Maybe ask them what they think you're learning, then. Do they know that you are a skilled rider outside of their barn? Maybe this is just part of their hard-wired lesson program that everyone goes through and they just aren't aware of the fact that you might not need it.
> 
> Unless they're seeing something you're not.
> 
> Ultimately, communication is key - talk to them about what's happening and get input, and give input.


I just asked them, and they said their horse may not be safe for beginners to canter in. 

I'm very much a beginner for sure, what makes a horse un safe to canter? They are a lesson barn, so I'm a bit confused, they may not let someone canter unless they very advanced?

Again, I'm not saying that I'm good or capable, but when I was testing out different barns, I cantered at every single barn on various horses... I just don't get it, and we are talking about on a lunge line.


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## remka (Aug 2, 2013)

Some horses have a very irregular canter, or he is hard to control at the canter, or starts bucking, because he doesn't like the canter, I have experienced all three. Do they not have anymore horses? Don't they have another one for you to try to ride. You could try to find a trainer that will give you lessons on your lease horse.


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

Fayewokf said:


> I just asked them, and they said their horse may not be safe for beginners to canter in.
> 
> I'm very much a beginner for sure, what makes a horse un safe to canter? They are a lesson barn, so I'm a bit confused, they may not let someone canter unless they very advanced?
> 
> Again, I'm not saying that I'm good or capable, but when I was testing out different barns, I cantered at every single barn on various horses... I just don't get it, and we are talking about on a lunge line.


A good lesson barn will have horses for many levels of riding ability. This includes horses that have interesting "quirks", like being difficult to handle at the canter. Lesson horses that have quirks like that are great learning experiences as you gain confidence and experience.

As far as the rest, I wouldn't want to spend 10 lesson trotting on a lunge line and would say so. Besides that, cantering isn't a necessity by any means to learning how to ride well, especially as a beginner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

First off, I'm surprised that they aren't teaching you to keep the horse on a circle with your legs and seat.

Secondly, I think it's best to do as the other have suggested and talk to your instructors about why you're still on a line and what they are hoping to teach you. Go from there, if you feel they're blowing smoke finish out the package and move on.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

It seems like a bit of an excuse to me - ask for more detail on What makes that horses canter so difficult. The only thing I can think of and agree with is if it's a fast-mover - a horse that loves to canter but can be a challenge to halt. Those sorts of horses rely a lot on body position, balance, weight abiding, and some rein finesse to get them stopped, so balance and seat, and ability to maintain both that could be what they're aiming for. 

My daughter just rode her first fast mover TB a month or so back. Her first canter was about 10 minutes long as she couldn't get him stopped. Having a good solid seat and excellent balance was the difference between not panicking and riding it out (vs panicking and things going WAY downhill, or falling off) while her coach talked her through things. She figured him out sooner than later and they're great together now - every level horse will teach you something new. 

But ultimately, you can only spend so much time on a longe before it starts to feel like a waste of effort.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

All other issues aside, there's so much one can learn on a lunge line at walk and trot that will transfer towards a better canter--if the lunge work is done well.

Look up Centered Riding and lunge line exercises. See if your instructor will do any of those with you. 

Will they let you ride with your eyes closed? Eyes closed listening to your ipod? This in itself will be wonderful for your balance. What about moving in and out of the 2-point? Great for your core and balance. Posting without stirrups? Posting with your arms out? 

Even very experienced riders go on the lunge line from time to time to fine tune their balance and adjust their seat. 

I'm going to drive my daughter 1h one way in the spring so that she could take a couple of centered riding lessons on a lunge line, in addition to her regular riding lessons. If they are good at what they do, these lunge lessons can be absolutely wonderful. Even if your instructor isn't good, but will let you ride with your eyes closed, this is already a rare and golden opportunity.


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

I've never canter on that lesson horse, he is any as hell, and I don't think his anter s fast. The lease horse I have now has quite crazy fast canter, the first two lessons I had on him I basically heard two words from my trainer, slow, and stop. Lol
I'm a bit better controlling him now and we are doing good. I am taking lessons on the lease horse at my current barn with my trainer. 

I just don't want to waste the remaining for lessons... Looks like I will have to trot for more times over there on the lunge line....

Tiger stripe- the lunge line barn, taught me to use rein, to pull out my outside rein, exaggerate it and release. I tried that at my current barn and my trainer was not thrilled of what I was doing.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

For what it's worth, I may let a slightly unbalanced rider on my horse at the trot. I'll gauge it to see if I think you can canter on him, and I won't let you if I don't think you can. There's no harm in asking why you can't canter on him, but I'd personally be irritated if someone insisted that they could canter on my horse if I disagreed. He can do unbalanced at the trot to a certain degree, but you may find yourself dumped if you try to force him into a canter if you yourself are unbalanced. 

Moral of the story: don't get upset if a trainer says that you aren't ready to canter on a certain horse. If they can't provide you with a horse you can canter with, though, then they don't have a school horse suitable for your level of riding. I'd find a new trainer with school horses that you can safely take past a walk/trot!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I don't mean to put you down or come across rude but...
I don't know about others and what their training is or was but when I was learning I didn't canter till I was well in control of my horse. 
My hands were independently quiet, my legs weren't constantly bumping and moving around. I was able to ride without balancing on my horses mouth. I was learning to use my body for the quiet cues needed to guide my horse...that doesn't happen in 4 months of time honestly for many.

You can learn a lot on a lunge line as others have said and obviously have experienced. Can you ride off of that line, you should be able to at this point. Can you canter... maybe not safely in your trainers estimation. Has it not occurred to you that you lack the skills to correctly ask this schoolmaster horse to pick up and continue the canter without flopping around, bumping his sides and having a really secure seat and quiet body? 
Every animal, every riding program is different and should also be tailored to the riders progression.

You say you are a beginner, riding 4 months, lease a _" The lease horse I have now has quite crazy fast canter, the first two lessons I had on him I basically heard two words from my trainer, slow, and stop" ...

_Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the reaction of your leased horse has to do with your riding ability... maybe you are going faster than you really have the ability to ride correctly and safely at? 

Personally, I wonder if the barn you dislike because they won't allow you to ride beyond what you are safely capable of doing isn't the better barn for learning a solid strong base of riding mechanics and balance. 

I agree and would question the tacking up time as part of the lesson time, however... learning to tack-up, handle and work with a horse on the ground is more important than you have thought about. Your communication and respect that animal shows you starts from that point forward... not just when you plop on their back. Learning to toss a saddle on is nothing, it is learning to read the cues, handle the subtle body language of the horse and do it safely is a very important building block in becoming a successful and safe rider and handler of all kinds of horses. So although you feel it is a waste of your time it really isn't. Your warm-up and cool-down time are great times to work on those pesky problems of hand-eye co-ordination, leg cues and a myriad of other issues that arise when riding...
The whole entire art of riding is supposed to be that it is done with finesse and silent asking of the horse to do your bidding... you aren't supposed to see the asking only the offering of the request granted by the horse.

_" The lease horse I have now has quite crazy fast canter, the first two lessons I had on him I basically heard two words from my trainer, slow, and stop" ..._that statement alone you wrote tells me you aren't ready to be cantering independently with safety...
You heard 2 words from your trainer... if you were ready to handle this horse those words should _not_ of been the only ones uttered that you heard. 

I actually applaud the other barn for keeping you safe and working to teach you a sollid base to build upon instead of a weak foundation that will fail you as you progress and discover the gaping holes you now have bad habits formed to compensate for the missing links.

Sorry, don't mean to be the downer or rude in how it is written but you sound by what you write that you are out there and calling the shots not the learned professional working to educate you. Open your mind to their answers to your questions... and truly hear what those answers are from them. Then decide _{I think you have already made up your mind though}_ whether to stay or go. Dressage is also a very different depth of knowledge of how your body works in co-operation with your horse than h/j....

BTW.... I've been riding for more years than many are alive and I_ still _work on a lunge line on occasion with my trainers when working on a issue that is defeating me in getting "it right".

_Quiet communication, asking and getting it right...no shame in working for those goals.
_

_jmo..._


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

From what the OP has said, it sounds like the horse she's using in ring sour and oftentimes these ring sour horses will buck, not just crow hop, when asked to canter. I suspect this horse has tossed more than one beginner. Is there only one horse? Did you sign a non-refundable contract?


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

horselovinguy said:


> I don't mean to put you down or come across rude but...
> I don't know about others and what their training is or was but when I was learning I didn't canter till I was well in control of my horse.
> My hands were independently quiet, my legs weren't constantly bumping and moving around. I was able to ride without balancing on my horses mouth. I was learning to use my body for the quiet cues needed to guide my horse...that doesn't happen in 4 months of time honestly for many.
> 
> ...


No, not rude at all ! Points well taken!! It's not just the horses fault of course, I was use to my other lease horse, and my current one s a lot more sensitive. And he also loves to canter, but definitely, my cues could totally be softer, he really only needs to be asked, not tell. The other barn tha I hate, you need to demand to get the horse to produce a decent working trot.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Fayewokf said:


> No, not rude at all ! Points well taken!! It's not just the horses fault of course, I was use to my other lease horse, and my current one s a lot more sensitive. And he also loves to canter, but definitely, my cues could totally be softer, he really only needs to be asked, not tell. The other barn tha I hate, you need to demand to get the horse to produce a decent working trot.


Thank-you for not taking offense, none is ever meant in _any_ post I write.

With what you write, then you may indeed be working with a dead-sided, bored and soured horse for lessons.

If you have decided to go in the direction of H/J then riding at a barn that specializes in dressage is probably also _not_ in your best interest.
Details, details...with time we all narrow down what we want to accomplish in our riding.
Now finding the barn to send you safely educated and prepared for that experience is what is most important for your happiness.

I wish you the best of luck in finding a true partnership of barn, instructor, safe mount and learning environment.

Be safe out there and ENJOY!!
:wink:


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Personally, I think the lesson barn (not "main barn") is at fault. If there is a rider I am not 100% confident in, and I have a lesson horse that is known to act up at any one of the gaits, that rider will not be on that horse.
Unless it really is a cop out?


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

They didn't really say that he will act up, I'm not sure what exactly the issue is. He's very very lazy on the lunge line but maybe he loves to canter and moves very fast?

I may not be strong yet, but definately stronger than I started, I have been cantering in various lessons horses and some


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

I have been riding just over six months and take individual lessons every week (sometimes twice). I always arrive about an hour early to tack, groom and muck prior to my lesson. My instructor is great in that she believes in my taking graduated steps in my riding progress. Ground work, seat, seat, seat...working with poles, small jumps and cantering. I still have a world to learn, but I'm glad that she guides me to be ready for the next level rather than allowing me to decide. That is precisely why I pay her. I'm building a good foundation (building blocks) based on confidence and ability.
When my lesson is over I generally stay well over an hour just to groom, muck and sweep. I don't have to do it, but I just love being around the horses. 
My long winded point is that after 4 months, I would still stay with the program as it is much like school. I don't see anything wrong with asking why you can't move on to the next grade, but be prepared to hear that you simply aren't ready (though you may think you are). I often wish I were doing more, but I realize that in time I will be.

Enjoy the ride, enjoy your life !


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## livelovelaughride (Sep 13, 2011)

My trainer has been working with me for several years, once or twice a week, and we revisit foundation work regularly. That is, there is always something else to refine even in the most basic of skills. Just when you think you've got it all figured out, she'll tell me my horse is falling in through the shoulder on a circle, or that my horse's haunches have been travelling to the outside along the long side of the arena. This is at the walk. Never mind the trot. I'm just saying, there is so much to learn. Building a foundation, fine tuning and getting a better understanding, is all part of the picture (for me, anyway).


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## Fayewokf (Jul 9, 2013)

I had a lunge lesson today with my regular trainer (my awesome trainer) because she wanted me to work on my cantering seat. Okay guys. This is what I imagine what a lunge lesson is and what it can do to help me.

She took away my reins and steer the horse and had me concentrate on myself. I started with posting trot, sitting trot, then the canter, concentrating one feeling the seat, move with the horse while keeping a quiet upper body with strong core and back. She allowed me to grab pommel during transition the first few times, the. I started to do it without, it was scary at first but I learned so much!!

The other barn..I just get kinda angry thinking about it, for 15-20 min, I do the same thing, trotting in the circle while the trainer tells me to help her keep the horse in a wider circle (isn't that her job since I'm on a lunge line????) and all I do is trot. And more trot. And of course walk transition.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Fayewokf said:


> The other barn..I just get kinda angry thinking about it, for 15-20 min, I do the same thing, trotting in the circle while the trainer tells me to help her keep the horse in a wider circle (*isn't that her job since I'm on a lunge line????)* and all I do is trot. And more trot. And of course walk transition.


 
Yes and no. Yes, if you're so new that it's all you can do to stay aboard. No, if she's giving you support while you focus on using your body and leg cues more to cue a horse.

There are times when it is appropriate for the person holding the lunge line to be there for feedback and instruction and only to prevent an accident, but the rider is doing most of the cuing.


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