# Arena sour?



## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

Horses act up when they are not worked with enough. I have experienced naughty horses & most of the time it is because they are only being ridden once a week. Ask your friend to work on lunging in a round pen (If you have one.) & walking around in the arena on foot (Halter & lead.) before mounting up. It is good to get your horse's mind on their rider before mounting up. To me, it really does sound like he is just full of energy from not being worked with. Don't worry about it too much, you'll be back in the saddle in no time & will be able to work him again.  The more the horse is worked with, the better they get.
If he always has been bad in arenas, try doing different things in the arena besides riding. Try lunging him in it or let him loose in it for a little while to explore. Make it an enjoyable place & let him know that the arena always doesn't mean "riding."
Goodluck. :wink:


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## Rowzy (Mar 1, 2010)

He won't lunge either. He strikes out when being lunged. This behavior started when he was being worked 3+ times a week, and was excentuated because of not being worked. If I let him loose in it he tries to graze on the grass thats growing through the sand, and I'm worried about him ingesting the sand and colicing. If I ask him to walk on and not graze he strikes out.
Sorry if this sounds like I'm just being negative about everything, just trying to explane more fully what is going on.


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## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

I totally understand! :wink:
Try going back to basic ground work & working on building up his trust for you. Sounds like he is a naughty pony & has no respect for anyone (Sorry... gotta be honest.). I highly recommend looking into Clinton Anderson's natural horsemanship methods. They worked miracles on my paint mare who was also a pain in the back end. Take a look at this: Establishing Respect and Control :: Downunder Horsemanship
I have this book & have gone through all the steps in it. Its easy, a heck of a lot of fun, & I noticed a huge difference in my horse after a month of working on it with her.
If I owned your horse, I would be doing a lot of ground work with him before even thinking about putting the saddle on him. He needs to learn to respect you.
You can do it.  Choose a goal. Be determined to achieve it. Don't give up. It will all be worth it in the end. Trust me. :wink:


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

If he was good trail riding why not just go for long walks in the bush?? He seems happy running trail and I don't blame him. Going round and round in the same old area gets boring for both of you.
If it was me and I was sore like you might be from the surgury I would bit him up with a curb, a tom thumb and good curb strap and take him out. The curb will give you ALOT more control and if used gently is no more then your snaffle but again with alot more control.. He starts anything you can quickly pull him up.


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## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

RiosDad said:


> If he was good trail riding why not just go for long walks in the bush?? He seems happy running trail and I don't blame him. Going round and round in the same old area gets boring for both of you.
> If it was me and I was sore like you might be from the surgury I would bit him up with a curb, a tom thumb and good curb strap and take him out. The curb will give you ALOT more control and if used gently is no more then your snaffle but again with alot more control.. He starts anything you can quickly pull him up.


Bigger bits never solve problems. :wink:


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## Rowzy (Mar 1, 2010)

Thank you. I will be working on ground work with him.

As for the bit, he works best in his hackamore then in his bit. He was orignally trained in it and just within the last year was trained to a bit. He has a soft mouth so I'm not using the bit during this time, because I dont want to accidentally pull too hard on his mouth.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

I have to say, I agree with RiosDad. You don't have to be harsh with it at all, it's just reinforcement. Yet again, Rowzy, if you're afraid of pulling too hard on his mouth, than you are right...you probably shouldn't use the curb until you are more familiar with it. I will say that I am all for natural horsemanship...or should I say I used to be. I realized that most of the time, you just don't have to time for natural horsemanship. Not because you don't literally have the time but because it won't come in handy if you are in an accident. You have to realize that horses are just plain out, freakin dangerous and frankly, I don't want to risk my life with natural horsemanship when I can get the job done in a more benefical way.


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## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

Good luck Rowzy! Keep him in the hackamore... thats the best thing to do for now until you build a strong bond with him through ground work. Now, to the person above me, you can avoid "accidents" if you take the time to work on natural horsemanship. There will be no accidents if you & your horse trust each other. Rowzy, keep him in the hackamore if you don't feel comfortable using the bit. :wink: Take your time with him. Putting more & more gear & harsher bits on him will not solve the problem... trust me.
If you want any tips on some of Clinton's groundwork techniques... message me! I'll be happy to help you & your horse out.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

So, the horse was sore, you fed him bute and magically he is fine? I have a tough time believing that. Did you ever bother to find out why he was sore and actually treat it?
The reason I say this is because horses in general want to please us and will try their best to do what they think we want. When they are being blatantly disobedient, it is usually not a training issue (except in some extreme circumstances) but that they are in pain and responding to that.
The horse has had a "soreness" issue recently that went basically untreated, this is a huge red light. Get out a vet with more than just bute in his truck and get your horse comfortable. I would get flexion tests, a full physical and his teeth checked. While you're at it, check your saddle/tack fit.

Good luck!


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

aintnocitygirl said:


> Bigger bits never solve problems. :wink:


And you know this because of how many years experience???


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

aintnocitygirl;575885build a strong bond with him through ground work. . :-)[/QUOTE said:


> I've been around too long, around too many boarding barns to beleive a bond is formed by ground work or any other pussy footing around. I have watched girls raise horses from the day they were born until they are 15-20, nice kind ladies who don't beleive in bits, don't beleive in spurs or anything else that might hurt the horse's feeling and NEVER form a bond. I have also watch lady after lady get OUT of horses because they walked all over them.
> I have watch these same mild ladies stand with a riding crop in front of their 15 year old horse and threaten that if they didn't stop pawing in cross ties they would smack them
> I have heard these ladies across the barn saying " I love you" to their horses.
> But do you know who has the strongest bond with any horse in the barn?? Me, the rought guy, the guy that takes no nonesense, the guy who is not afraid of hurting their guys feelings. That is not just my opinion.
> ...


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

Poor Rios, so irritated by us older ladies! You have a good point, but may I suggest it's not so much the Big Bit that makes the difference, but the ATTITUDE that goes along with it. A timid PERSON:wink: even with a big bit isn't going to have much communication with an insecure horse. It can make matters worse. But a very confident PERSON with a light snaffle can be effective just by having the commitment to go as far as necessary. Horses can sense this, I believe.

I happen to like the Tom Thumb pelham: with a loose chain, it's not all that severe, but you CAN take hold if/when you need it, without it being real sudden, like with a ported bit.

Agree with anebel to recheck for sensitive areas, and with the others who suggest going back to basics, keeping things easy. Because I don't think this situation needs a heavy hand right now.


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## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

Beling said:


> Agree with anebel to recheck for sensitive areas, and with the others who suggest going back to basics, keeping things easy. Because I don't think this situation needs a heavy hand right now.


 Exactly. And I would like to make it clear to you Rios, that natural horsemanship is not all "love & cooing" over your horse. There is actually a lot of force involved in natural horsemanship. It is all based on pressure & release. That is how horses learn. Also in natural horsemanship, instead of "smacking your horse with a crop if it doesnt stand still", you would use some training methods such as backing the horse up each time it moves. Add pressure when it moves by backing it up. Release pressure when it stands still. There is force involved in natural horsemanship, you increase the pressure until the horse responds. A lot of people think they gain their horses respect with bigger bits & things to HELP them control their horse. The only way you can really get your horse to trust you is by doing groundwork. If you can't control your horse on the ground there is no way you can do it in the saddle. Horses learn to respect you this way because you are adding pressure, moving their feet, & releasing it as a award when they do it right.
I have to say people who are able to ride with a light snaffle & nothing else have great respect from their horse. People who throw huge bits in their mouth & use a whole bunch of equipment on the horses face are pretending their horse respects them. Actually, it is just causing the horse to not respect the person at all. Yes, all that equipment does work but in the end can cause your horse to become hard headed & stubborn.
Oh ya, & btw. I can ride completely BRIDLEless with my mare.
Have a good day. :wink:

Rowzy, goodluck!


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Beling said:


> Poor Rios, so irritated by us older ladies! .


I have baby sat many a lady through her riding career. I helped a lady from breaking her horse to getting it's 1000 mile award in endurance and then I moved on. She up and quit horses when she no longer had me for a baby sitter. IT hurt.
I baby sit two ladies right now. I push them to places they would never dream of going but they do it because I am their protector, they call me that. I have no fear, I always lead the way past threatening things, I keep Rio between danger and them.
I don't mind but when I see kids, adults that don't really know giving poor advice, advice from their hearts, not their heads, not experience it riles me. I spent 12 years in a 40 horse barn and another 11 in a 25 horse barn. I was always the problem solver, the protector, the guide, the horse breaker and it gets a little tiring always leading.
I don't come on here for help, I don't need help. I do it for entertainment and try to pass on some of my knowledge.

Everyone on here with a problem if I could take them under my wing I could help them, I could make them more solid riders, I could show them how. It get frustrating to see the same old problems over and over, know you could help but you have to sit back and listen to the poor advice some others give and just shake your head.

There are some really good riders, some good advice, people like Kevin, smrob, keewgirl , marecare and many others who know, who can do the same as I can. They should be the ones you listen too and not the inexperience kids who only listen to their instructors, again more kids with what experience.
Enough raving. I had a hard ride today through high high wind, driving sheet rain and mud. 2 hours of trying to get blown off a horse, soaking wet and deep mud. I got to have a drink


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

I don't know man...I'm still with riosdad. I know that I'm done pussy footing around with being gentle and ****. Especially when our horses are supposed to be theraputic riding horses. Now, mind you, they're do exeptional with the kids but exeptional is becoming not nearly enough for me. I want my horses to be bullet-proof, respectful to everyone, and on and on... I may still be working with my horse, but I can say that I ride bridleless also, if I can do it now ALREADY, I can just imagine what she will be like when we have completely reached our goal of respect and the bond.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

I just had a quick look through the list of posters and there are some knowledgable people with good ideas.
I want to name a few Scoutrider, Kitten val, MacabreMikalaj , nrhareiner, Honeysuga, iride horses, Kevin or course, marecare and one KID who really impresses me Wild spot, great head on her shoulder.
smrob without a double and great lady. These are just a few and I missed alot of others but these people are the ones you should be listening too. Again I missed a number but these have some great advice.

I am really in hot water for this post but agian I am tired and wore out with the wind and rain and mud
Sorry


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

Rio: view my post on 'dances' tell me what you think when you get the chance, and have had some drinks  I think I'll be having a few too. lol


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> Rio: view my post on 'dances' tell me what you think when you get the chance, and have had some drinks  I think I'll be having a few too. lol


Truth be told I don't really drink. I just had a glass of chocolate milk. I don't like beer, I don't like wine and hard stuff I can't stand.
Milk is my drink of choice.
I will check it out


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## ridesapaintedpony (Apr 14, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> I don't like beer


Can't they kick you out of Canada for admitting that?

I agree with Riosdad. There is a place for "natural horsemanship" but they are big animals that can hurt you. Sometimes you need to hurt them back before that happens. I'm not talking mean and cruel. I'm talking getting after them for unwanted behavior. Nip it in the bud, so to speak, before it gets to the point where someone is going to get hurt.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

ridesapaintedpony said:


> Can't they kick you out of Canada for admitting that?
> 
> . Nip it in the bud, so to speak, before it gets to the point where someone is going to get hurt.


All my guys kick, every one of them and yes my last guy kicked me good twice but I never grab a stick , a broom , any weapon whatever to deal with this. When he connects with me I fly into him, ram right into him with my knees coming up hard and fast right in the rib cage and yelling. He kicks, he connects and I connect in the same second then I go back to brushing. Yes I have bruises but no I am not afraid and no I do not beat the horse but I too kick. Never stand back and boot, never. Up close , right against the horse and knee hard and yell , then forget.

They don't kick the second time.

Yes all my guys bite, remember they are unhandled 3 or 4 year old stud colts. They bite , just go in the stall and they come at you, lean on the stall door and they come at you but meet them with a corner of a brush in the chops, no whipping, no grabbing a broom but just the corner of a brush hard in the chops and yell NO. If you delay for a few seconds it is too late, you have to meet the bite with anything , not your fist, it will hurt you but an elbos while grooming from the side also works.
He has to know you are tougher then he is, you can not handle a whip fast enough.  I don't even have a whip in the barn or any other weapon other then brushes,hoof pick, that's about it. I would never use a broom, never.
None of by boys kick or bite after the first few weeks, kicking is over the first time we tangle but biting takes a few weeks. I will also stand at the door talking to him, daring him to bite and let him lip me.
You can not be afraid, you must be prepared and react instantly or it will not work.
Results may vary with experience.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> I know that I'm done pussy footing around with being gentle and ****.


I laughed my *** off when I read that.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I suggest to the OP to sell the horse like your father wants. When you are physically capable of riding then buy another horse.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I would have a vet try to rule out any pain issues first. Even a well behaved horse might buck or throw a fit if turning tight pinches a nerve. After pain has been discounted, he needs someone who physically can and will ride the crap out of him. If the arena is where his problems are, then ride the crap out of him on the trail until his head is drooping and the sweat is dripping off his heaving sides. Keep in mind, I don't mean make him _run_ everywhere, but hit a long trot or a lope and keep him there until _you_ think he's had enough, not when he says he wants to stop. Then when he is sufficiently pooped, take him into the arena and walk him around to cool him out. Maybe take his saddle off and let him loose in there for a couple of hours (or overnight if possible).

But I'm sorry to burst your bubble but this isn't something that is going to be resolved in only 1 ride a week. He needs to be used every day or every other day and get dog tired every ride.


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## Rowzy (Mar 1, 2010)

1. He has been checked by a vet and is physically sound. The vet came out when he was sore and prescribed the bute and essentially told me to let him rest for awhile. I was told he had tweaked something on a trail ride (I dont remember exactly what she said at the time, this is just the gist of it.)
2. I am physically CAPABLE of riding, I ride my other horse just fine but I run a HIGH risk of tearing my achilles if I fall.
3. I highly respect the lady who is helping me with him. She does kick back when he kicks, and so would I if I was riding. When he does do something to me on the ground I react back with a firm NO or a smack, depending on what he did.
4. We ruled out the saddle as an issue already. I am sticking with the hackamore for doing any work because he is better trained with it, and responds better with it.

Thank you guys for the advice. I am working with him daily again on the ground establishing respect, by lunging and other inhand work.


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## aintnocitygirl (Mar 12, 2010)

Rowzy said:


> I am working with him daily again on the ground establishing respect, by lunging and other inhand work.


 Awesome... good choice.  Good luck!


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## jethroish (Sep 19, 2009)

Have to agree with Aintnocitygirl. After little work this winter, my 9 year old gelding was acting out. After 3 days of ground work (20 to 30 minutes) he is behaving better than last summer.
A few days of ground work should re-establish some trust and respect.
If you or some one else is able to and the horse will trail ride, put some miles on him. After trail riding, bring him back into the arena. Just easy walk around at first, gradually building to heavier workouts after a trail ride. 
Just my 2 cents worth.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> and one KID who really impresses me Wild spot, great head on her shoulder.


Thank you Riosdad - That means a lot to me. I would love to come and meet you and Rio and go for a ride through the snow! 

My way of thinking is this:

If you have problems on the ground, work them out on the ground.

If you have problems in the saddle, work them out in the saddle.

The idea that a horse can't/won't trust you unless you do groundwork is a bunch of codswallop. My little arab will work for anybody, but he still gives that bit extra to me after 8+ years of working together, and I never did a jot of groundwork. Long miles in the saddle and overcoming obstacles together are what forms a bond.


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

I just wanted to point out that TRUE "natural horsemanship" is not about being lovey dovey with your horse, it's about communicating with a horse in its own language, the way another horse, such as the lead mare in a herd, would communicate with it. Horses understand when you speak "horse" much better than when you speak "people". When done CORRECTLY, the natural methods are very effective.


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