# the barn sour horse



## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'd still make him go away from the barn. If you are scared to do it in saddle - get off and walk him away from barn from ground till the point he'll calm down. Letting him going back is the worst thing to do IMO.


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## RedRoan (Mar 2, 2009)

I would get off and start lunging the horse away from home. Letting him go home is the last thing I would do haha. Getting his mind focused on a job getting it done, then after he has settled a little bit, reward him and go home.

I would also not just 'go home' untack and throw him back where ever. I would also work more at home getting it in his mind that home means work. Instead of just hoping off and putting him away. I would leave him tied and work around him (like sweeping the floors and other barn chores). 

Kicking and spuring is just a harsher way and getting a horses mind back on you. You can make him come back to you by making him work hard and 'doing a job'.

If a horse throws a fit, let him do it.... act like it was nothing once he looks at you for a reaction and go on doing whatever you were doing. If you don't feed to his attitude (and yes fear does), then he will learn that throwing a fit just means more work.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Put him to work by the barn, either on the ground with a lungeline and stick or under saddle. Work him until he is asking to rest, then trot away from the barn, stop at the 100 or so yards point (from the original problem), and allow the horse to catch his breath and rest on a loose rein/lead, FACING AWAY FROM THE BARN. If the horse chooses to try to get back to the barn before I ask, I would allow him to do so at a reasonable pace (as in, a brisk trot), using circles to control that speed to aviod a rear reaction, and then work the tar out of him when we reach the barn again, offering rest away from and facing away from the barn.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I'd still make him go away from the barn. If you are scared to do it in saddle - get off and walk him away from barn from ground till the point he'll calm down. Letting him going back is the worst thing to do IMO.


I agree, He should not have been brought back to the barn. I did watch a few times out the window and he would end up going straight up and the lady would end up getting off time and time again
She was at her wits end.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

RedRoan said:


> I would get off and start lunging the horse away from home. Letting him go home is the last thing I would do haha. Getting his mind focused on a job getting it done, then after he has settled a little bit, reward him and go home.
> 
> I would also not just 'go home' untack and throw him back where ever. I would also work more at home getting it in his mind that home means work. Instead of just hoping off and putting him away. I would leave him tied and work around him (like sweeping the floors and other barn chores).
> 
> ...


Again I agree. Getting off and taking him home was the worst thing she could do. I don't know her riding level but she did compete in cross country on him and I assumed was doing well.
I mainly only saw the tears, the flustration afterwards.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Scoutrider said:


> Put him to work by the barn, either on the ground with a lungeline and stick or under saddle. Work him until he is asking to rest, then trot away from the barn, stop at the 100 or so yards point (from the original problem), and allow the horse to catch his breath and rest on a loose rein/lead, FACING AWAY FROM THE BARN. If the horse chooses to try to get back to the barn before I ask, I would allow him to do so at a reasonable pace (as in, a brisk trot), using circles to control that speed to aviod a rear reaction, and then work the tar out of him when we reach the barn again, offering rest away from and facing away from the barn.


Funny but I saw very little of her using the arena. The only time I seemed to see her was when she was heading out only to return in a very short time. He arena time seemed to be nil


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

LOL. I like how you put me on the spot *riosdad*, is this so you can bash me some more? First of all, in my experience, horses dont just suddenly become barn sour. Things lead up to the behaviour. Most horses are followers, not leaders, they want to have a leader. If you don't take the time to earn there respect then why should they trust in you to keep them safe in the big scary world? Horses will often test their limits, and if they succeed in refusing to leave the property once, then chances are high they will provide a battle every single time you try to leave the property. Before you know it, you have a barn sour horse on your hands. More often than not we are responsible for creating this in the first place. So how would I handle this particular horse? and no *Riosdad*, I wouldnt use tools..lol...just to amuse you. There is usually two reasons a horse is barn sour. Either he doesnt see you as the alpha or he is just flat out stubborn and gotten away with too much leading up to this. This doesnt mean just undersaddle either. I wouldnt be attempting to ride this horse out knowing he does this because why would I want to put myself in that position and set the horse up for failure? I would be removing outside riding altogether and going back to the basics on the ground to establish a bond and have the horse realize that I am the one that is in control always, in any situation. Earning a horse's respect is far easier on the ground than the back of a horse, not to mention far less dangerous. Again, no spurs or whips! Just knowledge *gasp* wow eh?
Some horses just simpy cannot be broke of this habit if its that extreme so she may have made the right decision selling him if she doesnt have the experience to fix it. No barn sour case is an easy fix, its not one of those things you can just hop on someone horse and he will listen, well maybe to you riosdad, because you wear spurs..lol..
I would honestly be afraid if you were to help this horse riosdad, simply because this isnt a horse you could wear spurs on, you would just multiply the problem times a million. Im not saying that if my horse was to ever run home on me that I would just pack er in and put him away, there is steps that need to be taken so he knows that was unacceptable but getting on him isnt always an option if the rider has got hurt.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> Funny but I saw very little of her using the arena. The only time I seemed to see her was when she was heading out only to return in a very short time. He arena time seemed to be nil


Sorry, but what did my post have to do with an arena? :? I've used the same kind of method in the arena with gate sour horses, but it has worked well on the trail, too.

Sorry if I'm just misunderstanding your post. :wink:


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I dealt with this every spring with my 3 horses growing up. They were completely barn sour. Basically they'd get about a mile away from home and refuse to move an inch forward. If I asked they'd spin, back-up, rear, and basically do anything to avoid moving forward. 

So what did I do? I made them go forward. We "fought" I guess you could call it. I didn't beat them, but yes I kicked them hard and basically forced them to go forwards. I had this battle once a year with each of the 3 horses. Once it went on for a good 45 mins, but by the end of it she was walking calmly forward and when I turned home she walked slowly and calmly back. After our annual battle royal it didn't happen again until next spring. 

The only reason this happened every spring was that I was not allowed to ride off property (which meant out of the pasture) from deer season until spring each year. So the horses got very barn sour. 

Now I've dealt with Soda on this repeatedly. I've done the groundwork and the back and forth and the ponying with the other horse. All of the "nicer" ways. Partly because I'm not as strong of a rider as I was and partly because I am trying to learn how to "train" my horse the proper way. But basically I've been dealing with this just about every single time we go out alone. 

Sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't do both of us a hell of a lot of good just to have a good old fashioned "battle." It seemed to work pretty good with the others...


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Scoutrider said:


> Sorry, but what did my post have to do with an arena? :? I've used the same kind of method in the arena with gate sour horses, but it has worked well on the trail, too.
> 
> Sorry if I'm just misunderstanding your post. :wink:


I agree with everyone that she should have worked the horse. Not let him away with just untacking and putting him back in the field. She should have gotten back on him in the arena and worked him hard.
That is what I was getting at. She just let him off.
No work, no nothing


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> LOL. I like how you put me on the spot *riosdad*, is this so you can bash me some more? First of all, in my experience, horses dont just suddenly become barn sour. Things lead up to the behaviour. Most horses are followers, not leaders, they want to have a leader. If you don't take the time to earn there respect then why should they trust in you to keep them safe in the big scary world? Horses will often test their limits, and if they succeed in refusing to leave the property once, then chances are high they will provide a battle every single time you try to leave the property. Before you know it, you have a barn sour horse on your hands. More often than not we are responsible for creating this in the first place. So how would I handle this particular horse? and no *Riosdad*, I wouldnt use tools..lol...just to amuse you. There is usually two reasons a horse is barn sour. Either he doesnt see you as the alpha or he is just flat out stubborn and gotten away with too much leading up to this. This doesnt mean just undersaddle either. I wouldnt be attempting to ride this horse out knowing he does this because why would I want to put myself in that position and set the horse up for failure? I would be removing outside riding altogether and going back to the basics on the ground to establish a bond and have the horse realize that I am the one that is in control always, in any situation. Earning a horse's respect is far easier on the ground than the back of a horse, not to mention far less dangerous. Again, no spurs or whips! Just knowledge *gasp* wow eh?
> Some horses just simpy cannot be broke of this habit if its that extreme so she may have made the right decision selling him if she doesnt have the experience to fix it. No barn sour case is an easy fix, its not one of those things you can just hop on someone horse and he will listen, well maybe to you riosdad, because you wear spurs..lol..
> I would honestly be afraid if you were to help this horse riosdad, simply because this isnt a horse you could wear spurs on, you would just multiply the problem times a million. Im not saying that if my horse was to ever run home on me that I would just pack er in and put him away, there is steps that need to be taken so he knows that was unacceptable but getting on him isnt always an option if the rider has got hurt.


This horse is older, he has experience, he has run cross country coarses under his rider?? Why should he suddenly decide to not trust her??
Why handle it from the ground??
It seems when anything happens everyone wants to get off the horse and plant their feet flat on the ground?? Afraid??
The horse and rider have been together most of his life, he should trust her. She wears no spurs, tried a whip but also has a rubber covered snaffle so she doesn't appear to be too rough on him.
this is a combination that just fell apart, much as she loves that horse and love is a word she uses it looked like she was going to sell him.

He needed to know low level dressage. Needed to be bold enough to jump cross country as well a arena jumping. I was told by others that she is very knowledgable???


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I'll concede this point to you RiosDad. In my experience, I find it absolutely unbelieveable how many show riders are considered good riders, can win any class they enter and don't take any crap from their horse in an arena. And then they get out onto the trail and it ALL falls apart. It's like without the security of the arena, they have no idea how to handle misbheavior.

I used to ride with this girl who regularly competed in 3'0" jumpers. She was considered a very talented rider. And then we tried going for a trail ride. Her horse wasn't even DOING anything, he was perky and alert and prancing a bit and snorting at a thing here or there, and she got so upset, she threw herself of him, started bawling her eyes out and walked home. I was completely flabbergasted.

I'm not much of a show rider, but I think trail riding is a good foundation for every horse. It gets them listening to you in all environments. Thankfully, my Arab mare isn't barn sour in the least so I've never had to battle her out on the trail. I've taken Shay-las moms Quarab mare out and she's extremely herd bound so it involved a LOT of spinning and making her work in the fields to make her listen to me. Anytime she hesitated going forward, I'd immediately make her spin a few circles and then give her a good nudge with my heels back in the direction I wanted to go. It didn't take her long to figure out she wasn't getting her way.

If I was riding a horse that was being flat out dangerous, I agree with the others. I'd take him home and work him into one heck of a good sweat and then promptly go back out. Even if it only involved him listening to me for a 10 minute trek back up the trail, I wouldn't put him back until he was listening to me where I wanted him to listen to me.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> I agree with everyone that she should have worked the horse. Not let him away with just untacking and putting him back in the field. She should have gotten back on him in the arena and worked him hard.
> That is what I was getting at. She just let him off.
> No work, no nothing


Ahh.. gotcha. 

Thanks for the clarification.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I'll concede this point to you RiosDad. In my experience, I find it absolutely unbelieveable how many show riders are considered good riders, can win any class they enter and don't take any crap from their horse in an arena. And then they get out onto the trail and it ALL falls apart. It's like without the security of the arena, they have no idea how to handle misbheavior.
> 
> I used to ride with this girl who regularly competed in 3'0" jumpers. She was considered a very talented rider. And then we tried going for a trail ride. Her horse wasn't even DOING anything, he was perky and alert and prancing a bit and snorting at a thing here or there, and she got so upset, she threw herself of him, started bawling her eyes out and walked home. I was completely flabbergasted.
> 
> ...


I had an older lady start crying because her security of 4 walls were gone. We got about 1 mile from the barn and she fell apart. I had to take her back right away.
I like the open spaces. If a horse were to be a jerk out there I feel more in control because I have lots of room for him to act up. The only place I feel any nervousness is on a busy tight highway. No ditch to speak of and guard rails with a big truck bearing down.. that is the only place I feel the squeeze but with a good solid horse under you we get over it.
Crossing expressways with no sidewalk also puts the squeeze on us.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

When the young lady finally gave up I told her I could ride the horse for her. She was really worried I would be too hard on him but the owner of the barn assured her I would be gentle most of the time and rough only when it was needed.
I also told her she could accompany me but she had to stay well behind and let me outfront. I loaned her my old endurance horse.
I always ride in my own saddle. She brought her head stall which contained a rubber coated snaffle with weak reins. I told her to use it on my guy and I would use my headstall which holds a copper roller snaffle with good 3/4 inch long western reins, not knotted but free.

We headed out the lane way heading for the trails, her trailing about 50 feet behind me. A couple of hundred yards from home the horse exploded.
His idea of explode is a violent180 degree spin and a big jump back towards home. The instant he did that I pulled him hard into the ground causing him to rear, a normal reaction for him when pulled up was to the rear. When he went up I only pulled the left rein and when he came back down he was spinning to his left or back in the direction we were going in the first place. I slammed him with both spurs yelling at the same time.
He found himself lunging in the original direction. I totally relaxed and told him he was a good boy.
In another 100 yards we went to cross a railroad track and he did the same as the first time. Spin, rear and lung for home. Again the hard left rein and on coming down the hard jab with the spurs.
Again he lunged over the tracks and settled right down. I relaxed, told him what a good boy he was and we continued on our ride.
I ended up doing a 10 mile loop. Him being a long legged runner travelled at a nice working trot while my guy being a short arab with a smooth effortless lope ranged beside him.
I did ask her to move up beside him after about 1/2 mile and we could travel together, talk and she could see how I handled him. 
I don't make contact with a horse's mouth unless it is necessary.
He thought about trying it again well into the ride but you could see him thinking and then changing his mind.
I had a good ride, a relaxed ride and the lady thanked me for showing her how to handle him and for the confidence ride she had on my old boy.
2 weeks later she was to marry and was moving away.
I never saw her again.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Churchill summed it up best 
"Walk softly and carry a big stick"""
I ride with soft gentle hands, lots of praise and sure precise commands but don't cross me.
It makes for soft gentle light horses.

My son Rio


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> This horse is older, he has experience, he has run cross country coarses under his rider?? Why should he suddenly decide to not trust her??
> Why handle it from the ground??
> It seems when anything happens everyone wants to get off the horse and plant their feet flat on the ground?? Afraid??
> The horse and rider have been together most of his life, he should trust her. She wears no spurs, tried a whip but also has a rubber covered snaffle so she doesn't appear to be too rough on him.
> ...


How does that make me afraid? are you that much of an idiot? People can own a horse his whole life and as long as they dont do the proper ground work to establish whos boss, the horse will never fully trust the rider. Its simple. Any horse that doesnt have proper foundation done through groundwork, is bound to have issues. Like someone else said already, the horse can be a fully accomplished horse but if he doesnt see the outside open world very often, its bound to create a gongshow for anyone. If she was that knowledgable she would be able to figure out how to work him through rather then selling him because that doesnt make any sense. Why handle it from the ground? seriously? LOL OMG. It doesnt matter the age or experience the horse has, if he is a competition horse, he probably hasnt seen the outside open world much to enjoy a relaxing ride. Too many people make the mistake of assuming there horse will be dandy outside just because hes good in competition. It doesnt always work that way. There is "arena" horses and then theres all arounders. Theres this thing its called "exposure" and horses need it. You cant throw just any horse in the open and expect no problems.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> How does that make me afraid? are you that much of an idiot? People can own a horse his whole life and as long as they dont do the proper ground work to establish whos boss, the horse will never fully trust the rider. Its simple. Any horse that doesnt have proper foundation done through groundwork, is bound to have issues. Like someone else said already, the horse can be a fully accomplished horse but if he doesnt see the outside open world very often, its bound to create a gongshow for anyone. If she was that knowledgable she would be able to figure out how to work him through rather then selling him because that doesnt make any sense. Why handle it from the ground? seriously? LOL OMG. It doesnt matter the age or experience the horse has, if he is a competition horse, he probably hasnt seen the outside open world much to enjoy a relaxing ride. Too many people make the mistake of assuming there horse will be dandy outside just because hes good in competition. It doesnt always work that way. There is "arena" horses and then theres all arounders. Theres this thing its called "exposure" and horses need it. You cant throw just any horse in the open and expect no problems.


This is a cross country horse. He jumps strange course outside. This horse must of had expose just to compete the way he does.
I don't often see arena cross country coarses.. Most of them are held outside in the big open spaces.
You stick to the ground, me I will be in the saddle.
As for the holes in his training, I wasn't there, never rode the horse until that day and we had a good ride, a relaxed ride. Do you honestly think he would beat me if I rode him again.. Did I do damage the first time?? Did I not teach him that to spin, rear and run for home wasn't going to happen??

You'd be on the ground doing your whatever. Me I was out there having a good ride.

PS I never water a horse after I ride him..


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## RedRoan (Mar 2, 2009)

Horses are prey animals.... I know from experience that the horse knows that there is certainly something out there that might kill it (even if it is a deer and they can't see it - Just crossing over a main game path freaks horses out) and you have no clue because you don't have the keen senses a horse does.

Maybe there is more to the story then meets the eye.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

RedRoan said:


> Horses are prey animals.... I know from experience that the horse knows that there is certainly something out there that might kill it (even if it is a deer and they can't see it - Just crossing over a main game path freaks horses out) and you have no clue because you don't have the keen senses a horse does.
> 
> Maybe there is more to the story then meets the eye.


I think people should forget all the excuses, the saddle doesn't fit, the teeth are sore, he's afraid etc etc and just ride the horse.
The word is RIDE not get off and lead, RIDE the horse and forget the excuses.
If you can't ride the horse then you need improving, not the horse.
There are no bad horse, just bad people
I think Mary Twelvepony or somthing like that said that and I agree.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I disagree, RD. If horse is in pain riding won't do any better. 

BTW, I really dislike when horse misbehaves in park. Mostly because there are too many obstacles they can run you into (like a bench) and very often it's too narrow or too dangerous to do one-rein stop (as well as bolt). With that being said it doesn't mean you have to let it do whatever it wants to do.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Here's how I broke a few barn sour horses of the habit. 

"Let" him race back to the barn or paddock (assuming you haven't left the property yet, and in my experience, most barn sour horses are giving problems long before they reach the road), then once he's there work the living daylights out of him...if he wants to be there make being there so uncomfortable that making him leave actually DOES become the more favorable thing for him to do. 

If you have to, get off and longe him (ie, if he's a rearer, or bucker), and once your through working him, get back on, and ask him to ride out; if he does, praise, and pat him...if not, put him back to work; work him until he 'gets it' that riding off quietly (without the fighting, or turning around) is what you want of him. My last project was a horrible barn\trail sour horse...but a few times of me working the **** out of him AT his desired place made him think twice about wanting to be there...he rode off like a champ after that, and it didn't matter how many times I would ride him back and forth from the paddock to the trail. 

Of course, you should rule out pain, or ill fitting tack, but once these are ruled out, I do agree with RD, in that you shouldn't take 'excuses' from a barn sour horse...figure out the problem, and work through it, don't just avoid it, or 'reward it' by getting off. And yes, do this at a safe place; and perfect it there, then go to other places. By then the horse should know what's expected of him. 

I challenged him, because I wanted him to figure out that it shouldn't matter how many times in a ride I wanted to leave the barn, he was supposed to do it willingly, without arguement; and if he wanted to argue, then, fine, but he would still have to do what I was asking...maybe just not as quickly as I wanted.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

RedRoan said:


> I would get off and start lunging the horse away from home. Letting him go home is the last thing I would do haha. Getting his mind focused on a job getting it done, then after he has settled a little bit, reward him and go home.
> 
> I would also not just 'go home' untack and throw him back where ever. I would also work more at home getting it in his mind that home means work. Instead of just hoping off and putting him away. I would leave him tied and work around him (like sweeping the floors and other barn chores).
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with this post.

Ricci gets worked up leaving the barn, and it's not so much she doesn't want to leave the barn or her friends as she is just SO excited, she can't contain herself. If she acts up, it's in the same spot; the intersection we have to cross to get to the hill. She spins and pops up and bucks and prances. This is when I first give her a swift kick in the right direction, and if that doesn't work, she gets whacked in the rear with my excess rein. She'll give a little buck, but then she goes on. The trick for dealing with Ricci, as well as with most horses, is to not over-react to the bad behavior. Negative attention to a negative behavior is still attention. It's a very simple process. I said, "go" and she can either go when I ask nicely, or she can go when I get a little rough.

That being said, if you aren't capable of handling a certain situation, like rearing, and it scares you enough that you can't do what needs to be done or has become extremely dangerous, that's when the professionals should be called in. It's important to know your limits. I, for one, don't like habitual rearers. I'm confident in my ability to prevent the behavior with Gracie when I start riding her, and I could probably work out the habitual rearer, but it's something I'd rather avoid.

And for the record, I ride in spurs, and very rarely, I ride with my dressage whip. They are simply extensions, and are in fact very rarely used while riding. My horse is trained to respond to my seat and thigh muscles more than my calves or heels. But if I ask Ricci for a leg yield and she doesn't respond as quickly as she is supposed to, she gets a kick with the spur. Ask, tell, demand. I'm very good at never letting my spurs touch her sides unless I'm doing it on purpose, and 98% of the time, Ricci never feels them.

If you don't ride with spurs, you aren't not asking for enough. Some horses are simply more sensitive to cues than others. If you have a dead-sided horse, using spurs appropriately can help the horse become more responsive. If you ride a horse who moves off your leg with the pressure of barely a feather, using spurs can actually create a problem. All artificial aids serve a purpose, and if used appropriately can really make for a better horse, but if your horse doesn't need anything extra to respond to you, there's no reason to use it. If you think that all horses need artificial training aids, or that all artificial training aids are unnecessary, you aren't as good a horseman as you think. Every horse, every situation, every aid is different, and you should be open to dealing with the situation in the way that works best for the horse.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> I think people should forget all the excuses, the saddle doesn't fit, the teeth are sore, he's afraid etc etc and just ride the horse.
> The word is RIDE not get off and lead, RIDE the horse and forget the excuses.
> If you can't ride the horse then you need improving, not the horse.
> There are no bad horse, just bad people
> I think Mary Twelvepony or somthing like that said that and I agree.


This reply just shows how little you know. Lol. OMG.
So your saying this girl that wants to sell the barn sour horse needs improving yet you still want to sit there and pick my *** about how I would handle the horse? You funny man!
Any horse that has bad teeth, sore back hips christ the list goes on WILL NOT PERFORM TO HIS BEST PERFORMANCE, K? but then there you will sit and spur the **** out of him because your so convinced in that old head of yours that you can "get er done" your way. How does riding someone elses horse that runs home going to fix the situation between her and the horse exactly? you can sit here and brag that you "fixed that darn horse" but what about the relationship between her and that horse. IT REMAINS THE SAME. You didnt fix anything but your ego.


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## RedRoan (Mar 2, 2009)

Lol Riosdad... your a work of art.

Seriously there is a point a horse will not listen to you due to pain or fear. Thats when people get hurt. And thats when a horse won't trust you and will only act out of fear for your own sake of wanting to ride.

I've seen dosens of people whos saddles don't fit and/or they are over loading the horse's brains with asking them to do so much. The horse starts to act up and the rider whips and spurs the horse to crap thinking thats how to get through it.... yes that will make the horse listen to you but honestly that is a pretty abusive way to get through a problem.

There are times you need to take a step back and look at what your horse is doing. Instead of spuring the horses sides or whipping it, you can get the horse's mind back on you by getting his mind on a single job. In the end you have a horse that wants to listen to you.... not a horse that is listening to you due to fear of what the hell just happened.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I disagree, RD. If horse is in pain riding won't do any better.
> 
> .


Of coarse you don't ride a horse if he is in pain but any time a horse does something someone cry's PAIN.

The barn sour horse rides fine the first 100 yards and then suddenly goes into the pain mod??? Get real. It is just a behavior thing. It has nothing to do with pain.

As for the one rein stop?? I would never do it. Never would want to pull a runaway into a circle, too much chance of whipping out.
Not since I was a teenager have I had a horse really run away with me.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> "Let" him race back to the barn or paddock (assuming you haven't left the property yet, and in my experience, most barn sour horses are giving problems long before they reach the road), .


the racing back is the only thing I have issues with. To race back would be dangerous. Barn sour horses react mainly very close to the barn and to allow him to bolt for home at 30 plus mph could be a diaster. Ours for one would be a hard 90 turn followed by flying into the open barn door on concrete.
I agree with working the crap out of him if that is your way.
My way is less then 5 seconds and he is once again on his way. Less then 5 seconds.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Well said riccil0ve


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

>> Of coarse you don't ride a horse if he is in pain but any time a horse does something someone cry's PAIN.


So if a problem arises, it's wrong to consider pain first? Because if you can rule out pain, you can actually fix the problem, but if you don't think about the pain possibility, you're just going to put your horse in MORE pain and cause MORE problems and resentment towards his owner. Has the horse been checked for pain? Because unless he has been vet checked and you are POSITIVE it isn't pain, you'll never know for sure. Maybe he gets excited and tense as leaving the barn, or the rider changes the way she rides, even if it's a tiny change, and the new motion triggers pain. A horse can't say, "It hurts here," you have to figure out what's going on, that is your JOB as a horse owner.




And thanks. 20 year olds can be just as knowledgeable as old farts, you know. =]


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> This reply just shows how little you know. Lol. OMG.
> So your saying this girl that wants to sell the barn sour horse needs improving yet you still want to sit there and pick my *** about how I would handle the horse? You funny man!
> Any horse that has bad teeth, sore back hips christ the list goes on WILL NOT PERFORM TO HIS BEST PERFORMANCE, K? but then there you will sit and spur the **** out of him because your so convinced in that old head of yours that you can "get er done" your way. How does riding someone elses horse that runs home going to fix the situation between her and the horse exactly? you can sit here and brag that you "fixed that darn horse" but what about the relationship between her and that horse. IT REMAINS THE SAME. You didnt fix anything but your ego.


You don't ride horses in pain but the first leg you swing over the horse will tell you if the horse has back issues.. Ever hear the words COLD BACK. I know the feel of this instantly as soon as I settle in a saddle. The first 30 seconds tells you a story.
Anyway you don't ride sore horses but you also don't use that as an excuse every time your horse does something he shouldn't.
The lady saw how I delt with the problem, the horse saw how I delt with the problem and he seemed to behave for her over the next 2 weeks until he as moved to his new home.
I gave he advice on how to handle it, showed her how to overcome, gave her confidence that she could do it too.
I spent alot of sunday mornings at a large horse rental place tuning up rentals too.
You have no clue of my relationship with animals and as far as busting your butt as you put is somewhere you are probably too young for me anyway. I don't look at kids or touch their butts.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

RedRoan said:


> Lol Riosdad... your a work of art.
> 
> Seriously there is a point a horse will not listen to you due to pain or fear. Thats when people get hurt. And thats when a horse won't trust you and will only act out of fear for your own sake of wanting to ride.
> 
> ...


Redroan I know about saddle fitting. I tried starting a few posts on here about the subject but got no where so I gave up. I start with custom trees, trees fit specifically for my horse then the saddle is built around them. One is a working saddle and one is a spare. Right now on my deep freeze is parts for the spare saddle that just came in today.
Any new horse I get gets his own custom saddle made to his back so don't tell me about saddle fit. 
You don't ride horses in pain, that I have already said but you don't throw that up either every time something doesn't work for you.
People are always getting off, complaining about a whole in the training and going back to the ground for the stupidust things.
Stay on the horse, ride it out and if you can't then get help and who knows where that will come from and learn to ride out your problems
Rearing, running , bucking or anything else would not make me get off a horse. He wouldn't do it under me anyway.
As for using the spurs all the time?? My legs are long, they hang well below the horse and unless I want them to touch the horse they will not. They are only for backup on my horse and sometimes as a primary training tool on others. My horse and riding problems are miles appart. This forum is all about problems, people are asking advice. I don't have problems only solutions.
I would love to know the age of some of these kids. It might explain alot. I get the feeling that I am wasting my time on alot of little kids who know nothing but what their instruct tellls them to think.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

RiosDad said:


> Of coarse you don't ride a horse if he is in pain but any time a horse does something someone cry's PAIN.


Well, pain is the first thing you have to rule. If no pain - then training/behavioral issues.  

Although once I worked with the gelding, which was _mentally _sick. I'm not kidding a moment, and it was very unfortunate as from what I was told he had great bloodlines. But he was completely unpredictable, and very dangerous. He just blow out for no reason at all putting everyone around in danger. He was hit really strong in head, so I assume something moved down there. He was not mine, so I just stopped riding him after he sent other rider in ER. Not sure what happened to him eventually...


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Well, pain is the first thing you have to rule. If no pain - then training/behavioral issues.
> 
> Although once I worked with the gelding, which was _mentally _sick. I'm not kidding a moment, and it was very unfortunate as from what I was told he had great bloodlines. But he was completely unpredictable, and very dangerous. He just blow out for no reason at all putting everyone around in danger. He was hit really strong in head, so I assume something moved down there. He was not mine, so I just stopped riding him after he sent other rider in ER. Not sure what happened to him eventually...


We got a freeby from the track. A beautiful grey,no marks, no leg problems, just didn't want to race. Got him home, put a saddle on him and he dropped to the ground and started thrashing around. 
Got him up, went in the arena and climbed aboard. He dropped pinning me under him. When he got up we gave him away.
I don't need a horse like that. Too many good ones out there to put up with crap.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> You don't ride horses in pain but the first leg you swing over the horse will tell you if the horse has back issues.. Ever hear the words COLD BACK. I know the feel of this instantly as soon as I settle in a saddle. The first 30 seconds tells you a story.
> Anyway you don't ride sore horses but you also don't use that as an excuse every time your horse does something he shouldn't.
> The lady saw how I delt with the problem, the horse saw how I delt with the problem and he seemed to behave for her over the next 2 weeks until he as moved to his new home.
> I gave he advice on how to handle it, showed her how to overcome, gave her confidence that she could do it too.
> ...


Im glad you could clarify your dislike of kids and there butts. Thank god for that! Cold back. A horse will show signs of back soreness far before you put the saddle on, never mind get on, and this is a treatable condition by the way. The first 30 seconds will tell a story alright, a story of pain and discomfort that some people like you choose to ignore and ride em out anyway. Cold back once again is caused by humans as well...wholy im so smart! :lol:
I dont care what you do on your sundays and as far as "fixin" that girls horse, I personally think thats a load of crap. There is no quick fix to barn sour horses. I dont care how good of a rider you are. It takes longer then 2 weeks to fix a case like that. I thought you said she was very knowledgable?? if she was that knowledgable, you wouldnt have to give her advice on "how to handle it, show her how to overcome, give her confidence that she could do it too." There we go with your ego talk again. Sounds like a pretty novice rider to me, which again she made the right choice to sell him to someone who can handle him. No I dont have any clue of your relationship with animals nor do I really care, I know from what you have wrote and suggested to people on here, both threads, that you are a really stuck in your way old cowboy who sees there horses as robots not riding partners. Dont forget the spurs!


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> We got a freeby from the track. A beautiful grey,no marks, no leg problems, just didn't want to race. Got him home, put a saddle on him and he dropped to the ground and started thrashing around.
> Got him up, went in the arena and climbed aboard. He dropped pinning me under him. When he got up we gave him away.
> I don't need a horse like that. Too many good ones out there to put up with crap.


 
and you want to try and tell me that you have a relationship with animals? The horse guaranteed had a sore back, which you call crap, they dont just drop to the ground to get you off. Your just another one of those people that would rather pass them through hands then figure out the issue..good grief :roll:


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> Im glad you could clarify your dislike of kids and there butts. Thank god for that! Cold back. A horse will show signs of back soreness far before you put the saddle on, never mind get on, and this is a treatable condition by the way. The first 30 seconds will tell a story alright, a story of pain and discomfort that some people like you choose to ignore and ride em out anyway. Cold back once again is caused by humans as well...wholy im so smart! :lol:
> I dont care what you do on your sundays and as far as "fixin" that girls horse, I personally think thats a load of crap. There is no quick fix to barn sour horses. I dont care how good of a rider you are. It takes longer then 2 weeks to fix a case like that. I thought you said she was very knowledgable?? if she was that knowledgable, you wouldnt have to give her advice on "how to handle it, show her how to overcome, give her confidence that she could do it too." There we go with your ego talk again. Sounds like a pretty novice rider to me, which again she made the right choice to sell him to someone who can handle him. No I dont have any clue of your relationship with animals nor do I really care, I know from what you have wrote and suggested to people on here, both threads, that you are a really stuck in your way old cowboy who sees there horses as robots not riding partners. Dont forget the spurs!


 
She never sold the horse. She got married and moved him to her new home with her husband. She did eventing and just ran into a problem. For me he was fixed. He wasn't a problem for me to begin with. 
People all the time are saying their horse won't side pass, won't back up,won't take leads. It is not the horse, it is the rider just not knowing how to do things. Time and time again I get on the horse and he will sidepass up one side of the gate and back down again. The people just don't know what they are doing. Backing is just forward in reverse and again some people think pulling on the bit is the way to go but actually I ask for forward but restrict his movement to flowingbackwards. Leads are just burying the wrong lead making the right lead the easy lead.
It is more about a persons ability then the horses.
I have Mary Twelveponies book in front of me and the title says it all

There are no problem horses, only problem riders


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> and you want to try and tell me that you have a relationship with animals? The horse guaranteed had a sore back, which you call crap, they dont just drop to the ground to get you off. Your just another one of those people that would rather pass them through hands then figure out the issue..good grief :roll:


Go away, your mother is calling and it is time for bed. You must have homework or something


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> Go away, your mother is calling and it is time for bed. You must have homework or something


LOL. Aww you want me to stop pickin on you?? I doubt it. I told you once already I will not back down and this whole thread was directed at me so no, sorry old man, I will not go away :lol:

Oh and just for the record I did read that book.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> the racing back is the only thing I have issues with. To race back would be dangerous. Barn sour horses react mainly very close to the barn and to allow him to bolt for home at 30 plus mph could be a diaster. Ours for one would be a hard 90 turn followed by flying into the open barn door on concrete.
> I agree with working the crap out of him if that is your way.
> My way is less then 5 seconds and he is once again on his way. Less then 5 seconds.


Well, usually a barn sour animal is reacting within yards of the barn yard, so we're not talking them racing very far. Atleast those that I've dealt with; they start acting up before you even get out of sight of the barn, so you don't even get up to a canter :lol: Of course, when you've gotten back to the paddock and you've put his sorry a$$ to work, he's thinking twice about wanting to be there. 

You asked how we deal with barn sour horses, and that's how I've cured more than one VERY barn sour horse; it works, because you make being at the paddock extremely uncomfortable, which is opposite of what they are expecting. See most people get off, frustrated, and scared of what the horse just did, but when you put their butts to work instead of getting off and 'rewarding' their efforts at getting out of work, they start thinking twice about wanting to get back to the barn so quickly. You don't necessarily "have" to wait until you get back to barn to put him to work, but I find that this works the best, because that is where he 'wants' to be, so you 'spoil' it for him, by working him there. :wink:


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

My favorite way to deal with it is prevention....lol. I make my horse go back to the barn slower than they left, and if they are too excited about getting there we leave again. That's how I work with not so severe cases. In more severe cases we basically go quickly towards the barn and slowly away. When we reach the furthest point of where I want to go (past his point that he wasnted to return at) we stop and attempt a slow walk. If he walks we go home, if he doesn't we repeat. Most of the horses get it within 30 minutes over a few day's time, but they were not so severe that they were spinning and bolting. I always try to stop it before then, and I do this work from the time I start riding a horse (when it doesn't know for sure the barn is home) until I no longer have it. Most horses get used to the routine, and they understand that if they are too excited about the barn they won't go near it for quite a while.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> LOL. Aww you want me to stop pickin on you?? I doubt it. I told you once already I will not back down and this whole thread was directed at me so no, sorry old man, I will not go away :lol:
> 
> Oh and just for the record I did read that book.


You are not picking on me. You are more like a mosquito, annoying as hell but can do no real damage.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> Well, usually a barn sour animal is reacting within yards of the barn yard, so we're not talking them racing very far. Atleast those that I've dealt with; they start acting up before you even get out of sight of the barn, so you don't even get up to a canter :lol: Of course, when you've gotten back to the paddock and you've put his sorry a$$ to work, he's thinking twice about wanting to be there.
> 
> You asked how we deal with barn sour horses, and that's how I've cured more than one VERY barn sour horse; it works, because you make being at the paddock extremely uncomfortable, which is opposite of what they are expecting. *See most people get off, frustrated, and scared of what the horse just did, but when you put their butts to work instead of getting off and 'rewarding' their efforts at getting out of work, they start thinking twice about wanting to get back to the barn so quickly. You don't necessarily "have" to wait until you get back to barn to put him to work, but I find that this works the best, because that is where he 'wants' to be, so you 'spoil' it for him, by working him there.* :wink:


Agreed 100%. Done this with a few and it works wonders.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

RiosDad said:


> You are not picking on me. You are more like a mosquito, annoying as hell but can do no real damage.


Awesome thanks for sharing!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

paint gurl 23 said:


> and you want to try and tell me that you have a relationship with animals? The horse guaranteed had a sore back, which you call crap,* they dont just drop to the ground to get you off.* Your just another one of those people that would rather pass them through hands then figure out the issue..good grief :roll:


I've seen that happening. Some horses do ALL sorts of things to take you off the back. Such horses are very rare, but I've run into 2 or 3 (when I was trying out auction horses for the selling barn). 

BTW, I agree with RD, I gave up working with the mentally sick gelding too because all bonds in world don't cost as much as my broken neck. MAY BE I'd send him to the good trainer if he would be mine, but I had no intention to put any money in him.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I've seen that happening. Some horses do ALL sorts of things to take you off the back. Such horses are very rare, but I've run into 2 or 3 (when I was trying out auction horses for the selling barn).
> 
> BTW, I agree with RD, I gave up working with the mentally sick gelding too because all bonds in world don't cost as much as my broken neck. MAY BE I'd send him to the good trainer if he would be mine, but I had no intention to put any money in him.


Sure some of them will try anything to get a person off but you missed my point. My point is that horses dont just try and get you off, there is always something that has stemmed up to that point. Ridng is mostly, if not always, saddle fit and thats the only way they can tell you they hurt since alot of people dont know how to read the signs early before they get to that point. Once they can get down and do it then ya they will do it again. How that makes them mentally sick, im not sure. They dont just do it because they want you off, thats not a horses nature. Unless you seriously dont know what the hell your doing and the horse gets scared and bucks you off, its still the humans fault. Some call them mentally sick, bad, stupid horses.. I have heard every name in the book, but in my experience its not the horse, its the people that horse has had in its life that cause him to be that way. No, alot of people wont waste there money on the bad ones but I make my living fixing them. I am not no professional but I havent had one horse that didnt turn around for me. If you arent going to invest the money into the bad ones then ya its better to let them go to someone who will. Thats why so many horses end up in slaughter because they get passed through too many hands and not good ones either. Its sad but it all comes down to being human caused. Period.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I would say that saddle fit is one of the rarest causes of unwanted behavior. On this forum that is usually the suggestion that is offered in the first 4 posts of any question about behavior. A good saddle will fit multiple horses as long as they have good backs. If I had a horse that my saddle didn't fit I woud sell the horse. 

Many people do not want to take the risk of being hurt that is inherent in riding difficult horses so they sell them and buy something that they can enjoy. I see nothing wrong with that. If nobody wants to fix the problem they may end up as a steak and that's fine with me.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> I would say that saddle fit is one of the rarest causes of unwanted behavior. On this forum that is usually the suggestion that is offered in the first 4 posts of any question about behavior. A good saddle will fit multiple horses as long as they have good backs. If I had a horse that my saddle didn't fit I woud sell the horse.
> 
> Many people do not want to take the risk of being hurt that is inherent in riding difficult horses so they sell them and buy something that they can enjoy. I see nothing wrong with that. If nobody wants to fix the problem they may end up as a steak and that's fine with me.


Omg. Coming from you I thought you would have something smarter to say. Sure a GOOD saddle will fit multipe horses, do you know how many people DONT know about how to properly check for saddle fit or just simply dont care and brush it off? Do you know how many ILL made saddles there are out there just for people to make money off of that would actually fit a table better then a horses back? AGAIN. It still goes back to humans! *gasp* wow eh? Horses arent machines, they hurt just like us. An improper fitting saddle can cause mountains of issues in any horse. Some take it quite well and dont complain much at all. However that doesnt mean it doesnt show up in other areas in there behaviour. I am not against people selling difficult horses because it keeps me in buisness. Its aways easier to sell them then it is to fix the underlying issue for people like yourself. It doesnt matter what the horses issue is, its caused 99% of the time by humans unless there wild and shouldnt be rode anyway.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Please remember the Conscientious Etiquette Policy when replying to posts.


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## BaliDoll (Sep 21, 2009)

^ I agree it's 99% of the time human error, but how did saddle fit come into this question? If the woman was competing with this horse and his saddle didn't fit he'd have pitched a fit before they'd left the barn, so kevin is right that this has nothing to do with saddle fit. If a horse is barn sour he's pitching a fit and trying to get his way, it has *nothing* to do with pain... because if it were pain he'd be doing it everywhere. 
The horse I was free leasing wouldn't turn left due to teeth problems, he wouldn't turn left only in the arena and then not turn left on the trail because of tooth pain... it was a constant thing. The variable being added with this horse is that he's leaving the barn- therefore the way RiosDad handled it wasn't out of line at all.

I'm not directing this at anyone, I am just wondering how we got to the topic of saddle fit when it's about a *barn sour* horse...?

Also wanted to add, the approach of working a horse when they get home from a ride is actually a good practice to do whenever you go on a trail ride. You don't want them to assume just because you're back home at the barn they're going to be put away. I always bring my horse back to the arena after a ride and make him do a little work (even just 5 minutes of walk/jog and then a cool down lap or two...) before I put him away...


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I agree with kevinshorses. In all my life of riding horses, I have never personally seen a horse pull a wild bronc tantrum due to a badly fitting saddle. Most horses just "grin and bear" it, which isn't neccesarily a good thing, but is more likely to prevent more complicated training problems - such as not being able to teach a proper extended trot or getting a good spin out of your horse.

My Arab mare is pretty good at letting me know when a saddle doesn't fit, but it basically comprises of a few crowhops and head shaking. I know immediately when she's telling me she's being pinched, but I can guarantee if someone less observant was riding her and forced her to work through it, she'd stop. She'd be stiff and resistant, but she wouldn't attempt to kill her rider due to the saddle.

Typically, the saddle is only the irritant on an underlying problem. Shay-las mare has been borderline psycotic her whole life. Constantly bucking and leaping and trying to bolt. Shay-la spent years trying to re-school her, and being somewhat novice when she bought her, just set it aside as the horrible training the mare had recieved previously. She tried riding her English and noticed something odd - the bucking was cut almost in half. We immediately started questioning the saddles.

Turns out, it had nothing to do with the saddles. This mare had suffered a bad injury as a youngster that had somehow "fused" her hips together in an unnatural way. Because a Western saddle has a longer back on it, it provoked more bucking. The English saddle didn't touch her loin area at all, so the bucking was greatly reduced. So really, it had nothing to do with the saddle, it was an underlying medical condition that was provoked by different types of saddles.

The mare is in retirement now by the way.


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## RedRoan (Mar 2, 2009)

I've seen plenty of horses not listen to their riders, take off running, or buck due to pain of the saddle.


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

RedRoan said:


> I've seen plenty of horses not listen to their riders, take off running, or buck due to pain of the saddle.


I am curious as to how you knew that these horses you saw behaving badly were because of saddle fit and not other reasons? The word "plenty" seems to indicate numerous horses and "seen" would indicate you were there. How did you ascertain that the problem was back pain (as opposed to pain elsewhere) and that the saddle was the cause?


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## RedRoan (Mar 2, 2009)

Because most of these horses were boarded at a stable that I was at almost 24/7 during the summers that I was there. I knew it was saddle pain due to how the saddle was sitting and how it fitted on the horse. The owners were very new to the horse owning aspect of the world (they wern't bad riders and didn't haul on their horse's mouths) and tried to rule out everything but how the saddle was fitted. Not to mention how they didn't seem to understand that a saddle fitting so far back or to far forward causes other problems. 

Other times have been when a rider asks a horse to change leads or to go after a cow in a herd during team penning and the horse whirls away and bucks due to the sudden pinching its saddle tree had on its back.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Well, pain is the first thing you have to rule. If no pain - then training/behavioral issues.
> 
> Although once I worked with the gelding, which was _mentally _sick. I'm not kidding a moment, and it was very unfortunate as from what I was told he had great bloodlines. But he was completely unpredictable, and very dangerous. He just blow out for no reason at all putting everyone around in danger. He was hit really strong in head, so I assume something moved down there. He was not mine, so I just stopped riding him after he sent other rider in ER. Not sure what happened to him eventually...


Did you know horses can go blind by a blow to the head? It can put them completely out of alignment. I would bet he was unpredictable and dangerous, BECAUSE HE COULDNT SEE!! I worked with a very well bred, stunning, futurity gelding that no one could get anywhere with. He was cowboyed, and by cowboyed I mean he was rode into walls by this idiot who thought by running him into the walls he would stop alot quicker? He was 16.3 HH, maybe he was intimidated? Who knows. The guy got tired of eating dirt so he quit. This horse took it until he lost his vision and no one could do anything with him after that. Everyone was scared of him. He was very spooky, head always up high, very alert....he was a very quiet people horse before this happened and ready to compete. I was told this but also new this when I met the horse. He really messed up this horse to the point of sending people to the ER. I have never come across a horse so kind and willing knowing what had happened to him. I rode him after about a month of groundwork and therapy to get his vision back. From being run into the walls, it turned his wither and back into an "s" shape as well as knocking vertabrae out in his neck including his poll/atlas and all the way down. He will need regular therapy the rest of his life for the scar tissue this guy caused and hes only 6. He needed a few sessions of therapy to put him back together but it was worth it. No horse wants to be afraid yet they become explosive and dangerous because thats there only way of defense once it hits a certain point of pain. He lost his peripheral vision due to being run into the walls which came back with therapy and he never attempted to hurt anyone after that, he calmed right down to his normal quiet self. Anything that wasnt in front of him on the ground scared the crap out of him because he couldnt see. How that makes a horse mentally sick I am not sure but it sounds like he was easy to pass off as being ill in some way. People need to really think about what could be the underlying cause of some behaviors before they send them down the road. This horse was absolutely amazing to ride and have around after I got him the help he needed. His career was done as far as everyone was concerned until I stepped in and offered. Not to brag at all or sound like I know everything, just want to make a point in saying that not every horse is sick in the head.


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## WelcomeStranger28 (Oct 21, 2009)

well all I have is to sayy that some people say that when a horse rears, you are supposed to crack an egg on the top of their head so they think they are bleeding!!!
there are 2 things wrong with this:
1. Where does the person get the egg from, it would crack if they rode with it!!
2. It is cruel to the horse cause they think they are bleeding, when it is just an ordinary egg!!!

If anyone else has heard and/or used this method can they please let me know as I would like to find out how you carried the egg and how the horse reacted!!!


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

WelcomeStranger28 said:


> 2. It is cruel to the horse cause they think they are bleeding, when it is just an ordinary egg!!!


Horses aren't stupid. They know they didn't hit their head on something and that they are bleeding…especially with something as fragile as an egg. I saw a horse rear in a trailer hitting the top of it so hard with his head that it knocked a rivet loose only to have him do it again the next time he was loaded. He also reared in the barn and hit a rafter causing it to vibrate…and he still rears...so I'm not sure that a horse hitting it's head on anything deters a horse from rearing…at least not that one!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I haven't used the egg trick, but both my cousin and dad have used it. Basically you ride one handed and hold the egg in your hand. When the horse goes up you break the egg over his head. Supposedly the horse thinks it's bleeding and that it hurt itself while rearing. In theory it will learn that rearing is bad and won't do it again.

They had both used it more than once and said it worked great. The horse didn't freak out, but acted more scared (who could blame it?), and stopped rearing. Oh and you don't "hit" the horse hard enough to hurt it, just break the egg. 

When Soda was rearing I was told to try this. I didn't for several reasons and resolved the issue another way, so I don't know from first hand experience how well this works.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> do you know how many people DONT know about how to properly check for saddle fit .


I would love to have you explain it to us?


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

BaliDoll said:


> ^
> Also wanted to add, the approach of working a horse when they get home from a ride is actually a good practice to do whenever you go on a trail ride. You don't want them to assume just because you're back home at the barn they're going to be put away. y...


I am in the habit of getting off at the head of the laneway, about 200 yards from the barn, loosening the saddle and hand walking him to the barn. this also loosens up my legs and takes the stiffness out of my body. It also allows the blood to come slowly back. You should not just pull the saddle directly off. Loosen it a few holes and leave it on a while.
This might be an old saying but I have read this a number of times and in endurance the old experiences guys taught it to us.
I have gotten in the habit of also leading my horse out the laneway before mounting too. It gives him a chance to get use to the tight saddle on his back and it makes me feel good warming him up a little.
That said I have no problems just saddling him , mounting and riding out. It just makes me feel good to lead him out the first couple of hundred yards. The walk in after the ride I feel is good horsemanship.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have used the egg, the water balloon, rubber hose, etc methods. It does work. With some horses, it works permanently, with my particular horse, it worked for that particular ride. With him, "tomorrow is another day"...

Rearing, in my opinion is the most dangerous thing a horse can do. These methods to me are not cruel, cruel is locking a horse in a stall for 3 days without feed or water. Cracking an egg over a rearing horses head is harsh, but maybe a neccessary evil in my opinion. People say they have horses that rear. And I do know there is such a thing as an occasional rearer, but when you have a horse that is a chronic rearer, you have a very dangerous animal. Ruling out pain, saddle fit, and fear leaves a stubborn ornery horse. I know, I have one. And I love him dearly. But rearing is dangerous. Just my opinion.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> Did you know horses can go blind by a blow to the head? It can put them completely out of alignment. I would bet he was unpredictable and dangerous, BECAUSE HE COULDNT SEE!! I worked with a very well bred, stunning, futurity gelding that no one could get anywhere with. He was cowboyed, and by cowboyed I mean he was rode into walls by this idiot who thought by running him into the walls he would stop alot quicker? He was 16.3 HH, maybe he was intimidated? Who knows. The guy got tired of eating dirt so he quit. This horse took it until he lost his vision and no one could do anything with him after that. Everyone was scared of him. He was very spooky, head always up high, very alert....he was a very quiet people horse before this happened and ready to compete. I was told this but also new this when I met the horse. He really messed up this horse to the point of sending people to the ER. I have never come across a horse so kind and willing knowing what had happened to him. I rode him after about a month of groundwork and therapy to get his vision back. From being run into the walls, it turned his wither and back into an "s" shape as well as knocking vertabrae out in his neck including his poll/atlas and all the way down. He will need regular therapy the rest of his life for the scar tissue this guy caused and hes only 6. He needed a few sessions of therapy to put him back together but it was worth it. No horse wants to be afraid yet they become explosive and dangerous because thats there only way of defense once it hits a certain point of pain. He lost his peripheral vision due to being run into the walls which came back with therapy and he never attempted to hurt anyone after that, he calmed right down to his normal quiet self. Anything that wasnt in front of him on the ground scared the crap out of him because he couldnt see. How that makes a horse mentally sick I am not sure but it sounds like he was easy to pass off as being ill in some way. People need to really think about what could be the underlying cause of some behaviors before they send them down the road. This horse was absolutely amazing to ride and have around after I got him the help he needed. His career was done as far as everyone was concerned until I stepped in and offered. Not to brag at all or sound like I know everything, just want to make a point in saying that not every horse is sick in the head.


Why don't you quit attacking people. This is a discussion board not a berating board. I know that when you are young you think that you know everything and can do everything but you will have much more success with people and horses if you treat them with respect and dignity. If you communicate with horses like you communicate with people on this forum then you are not the horseman that you think you are.

From a post 3 sentences long you diagnosed a horse you have never seen as being blind. *That is ridiculous*.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

First I will say that I have not read through all the posts. Just do not have the time.

Anyway. It always makes me wonder how these problems even get started then I watch how people work their horses. It comes down to a very simple process. DO NOT RIDE YOUR HORSE BACK TO THE BARN or OUT OF THE ARENA.

It never falls. I see people who do the exact same thing every ride. They go out and ride either in the area or on the trails or what ever then they ride out of the arena and back to the barn or come off the trails and ride back to the barn. Then they get off un tack their horse and say we're done. No wonder the horse wants to go back to the barn.

First. I NEVER ride out of the arena not even at a show. Second I NEVER stop riding in the same place in the arena. When I get off the horse I loosen the Cinch right there. Not all the way off or hanging but loose. I then walk them out and back to their stall or barn or where ever. Same thing goes if I am trail riding or what ever. I never get off at the same place and I always loosen the cinch. If they have leg gear it comes off at that point too and I hang it from the stirrups. The horse never learns where the end is. It is always different. Keeps them from thinking. Same goes when I am riding and training. Never do the same thing in the same order.

No matter what you do out on the trail if you ride the horse back to the same place every time nothing will really change.


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## waterbuggies (Jun 9, 2009)

I'll get off in different spots or at the barn, let my guy stand tied for a few minutes go get a drink or just mess around for a few minutes or go in the house and start supper, then I'll get back on him and ride again. He never knows when the ride is over untill his saddle comes off and he's been given his treat. I might get off of him 2 or 3 times during a riding lesson, but never when he's cutting up, I don't want him to think that him cutting up is going to get me off his back. Just because we come back to where I tack up doesn't mean that the riding is over either.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't worry about where I get off, how I ride home. I have never had a personal horse show the least barn sour or even rush home.
It is in how the horse is handled, his respect for you and what he thinks he can get away with.
Just like people he will take advantage of you if he feels he can get away with it.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

RiosDad said:


> I don't worry about where I get off, how I ride home. I have never had a personal horse show the least barn sour or even rush home.
> It is in how the horse is handled, his respect for you and what he thinks he can get away with.
> Just like people he will take advantage of you if he feels he can get away with it.


I ride away from the barn (in the faster gaits) but I only walk TO the barn. I have 6 horses and I handle them all the same. 2 of those six horses get really ancy on the way home and really want to pick up the pace. I will side pass them before I will trot them to the barn. One of them does leave the barn fine, even alone. The other fights the whole way out. Sometimes I think it is the horse. But I also think it can be managed.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Why don't you quit attacking people. This is a discussion board not a berating board. I know that when you are young you think that you know everything and can do everything but you will have much more success with people and horses if you treat them with respect and dignity. If you communicate with horses like you communicate with people on this forum then you are not the horseman that you think you are.
> 
> From a post 3 sentences long you diagnosed a horse you have never seen as being blind. *That is ridiculous*.


You know nothing about me or what I can do but nice try grasping at straws! lol...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

paint gurl 23 said:


> You know nothing about me or what I can do but nice try grasping at straws! lol...


Thank you for making my point for me.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

This thread is closed. There is too much bickering going on for it to continue.


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