# Horse doesn't respond to my cues to run?



## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

When I am riding my horse, she will go up to a trot and I have to nudge her a couple times. She will go to a trot and nothing more. She is extremely responsive to turning, but not running cues. I wanted to know how I can get her to go to trot, canter, then gallop in just a couple nudges. Thanks !


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi,

First & foremost, horses frequently have physical &/or saddle problems that mean anything above a trot is difficult, so rule out/treat that first. For eg. tests have shown that cantering under saddle, if not a perfect fit, increases pressure on different areas at least 3 times as much as at walk or trot.

More info regarding training? Are you new to horses/her? Is she mature/educated or young & green? Will/has she cantered much for others under saddle? I like to start green horses cantering under saddle in a way they're most likely to do it of their own accord, such as running with another horse up a hill. Add the cue to the behaviour. 

On the other hand, if you know she's well trained/does it for others, then it sounds like she has your number & you're not being effective. If so, I'd be getting 'stronger' with your cues, & perservere until you get the behaviour, to tell her you mean business & ignoring you won't work.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

I think it's the saddle. She had been using another horses saddle when I rode her, a Thoroughbred's. She doesn't have her own saddle since I am still raising some money for hers. This was the first time she was ridden in a while, because I just moved and just started going to the rescue to ride. I have known her for about 1/12-2 months, so I am still new to her. The first time she had been ridden for a solid hour or two was last Saturday. I don't know how she reacts to others, because nobody has ridden her in a while. She is mature and I assume educated, but the rescue/boardinghouse she is kept at doesn't know much about her background. Now that you mentioned that an ill fitting saddle can be and issue to speed, I think it could be that. Thanks for your help !


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I would also ask about your experience. Just the fact that you call it "running" as opposed to a gait name would suggest to me that you are a newbie. Rule out pain, and perhaps get a trainer to help you before you end up with a horse who is numb to the aids.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> I would also ask about your experience. Just the fact that you call it "running" as opposed to a gait name would suggest to me that you are a newbie. Rule out pain, and perhaps get a trainer to help you before you end up with a horse who is numb to the aids.


That's what I was thinking.

Some horses that don't feel like their rider is balanced or stable enough to allow them to transition without them losing their own balance will just refuse the transition. It's basic self preservation.

What is your riding skill level, and amount of formal training?


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

If the saddle don't fit, don't wear it.

Often times it is easier for a horse to canter when they have been lunged at a canter. I NEVER lunged my gelding at a canter and could only get a few strides out of him on the ground and in the saddle. When I started building up his canter, he got better, and now he'll canter laps around the arena. 

I would work with a trainer to get this horse cantering well and make sure there are no other problems. I, myself, have some balance issues cantering and if my gelding feels me 'falling apart' he won't canter any more. If you crash up and down, it will hurt their back, and they can have a bad experience from that, too. I rarely rode the canter, and I worked on cantering on different horses to get used to it. Some horses have a really nice canter, others... not so much. Riding a nice canter will help you learn how to move with the horse.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

What discipline are you riding?

How are you asking her to canter? If you're just kicking her, or "nudging" her she may not have a clue what you want. My horse certainly wouldn't, nor would many others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

With my horse, he has literally 18 or 20 speeds of trot. he does every single one if he doesn't want to lope or above - and on his fastest one you can't even stay IN the saddle and you have no choice but to slow down and stop to regain your balance.
Keep asking your horse forward and forward until he gets a little faster. Also try leaning forward and standing in your seat - if you are an english rider then ride at two-point - so your weight is more forward so he knows for sure you want him to go forward. If you just ask him to go faster, but your body is sitting deep and back into the saddle then you are asking your horse forward but to slow down. Your cues ask him forward, your body asks him to slow.

If you ride western I would consider trying a romel.
Romels work very nicely one your horse knows it means.
First, you give him warnings, each warning gets closer to his body - which lets him know that he has so many chances left to get faster before the romel reaches his withers. This training tool can go along with - ask, tell, and demand.

this is how a romel is used: 

The first warning, or to *ask* the horse faster
take the end of the romel and tap it one both of your shoulders once.

If he doesn't go, *tell* him to go.
Now tap your thighs or your lower back.

If he still doesn't go, *demand* him to go forward.
Now you tap his withers. He may not go the first time you tap them, so what you do is you keep tapping his withers harder, but keeping the same speed until he goes forward. 
You might also want to ask with clucking or kissing sounds and/or the light tap of your foot, which if you want then your foot pressure can also get harder but keep the same speed.

This technique works very good on my horse and when he hears the sound of the romel tapping my shoulders he knows I *mean it* for him to go forward and all of a sudden he is alert and walking forward with joy - because he hear my first warning and didn't want to be touched with the romel, so he listens at the first sound and walks on.

Good Luck!!


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I've ridden horses that you can ask, tell, and demand a gait on but they will NOT pick it up if their rider isn't capable of riding it without them potentially getting themselves (the horse) hurt.

Again, self preservation. If the rider is wildly out of control on their back (bouncing everywhere, hardly any seat, yanking on their mouth, completely unbalanced) a lot of horses won't pickup a canter since they could end up tripping and going down. 

The other likely situation with a with an inadequately skilled rider is giving conflicting commands - asking for go, but subconsciously (or unknowingly) giving conflicting commands for whoa - many horses will opt for the whoa option if they're confused. Since the OP mentions that this horse is new to her it's entirely possible it's combination of many things causing this issue - the horse may have been trained for cues she's not using, she may be unbalanced, the horse may have medical or pain reasons for not wanting to transition, etc etc.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't know how much experience you have but sometimes when a horse has had a long time off its a good idea to go right back to basics and re-teach them verbal cues on the lunge that you can then use from the saddle along with your leg cues
If you don't know how to lunge correctly you should find a good trainer to help you get started


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

amberly said:


> Keep asking your horse forward and forward until he gets a little faster. Also try leaning forward and standing in your seat - if you are an english rider then ride at two-point - so your weight is more forward so he knows for sure you want him to go forward.


I don't agree with this. I you try to get the horse up into canter by just asking him to pick up the speed of his trot then the horse is going to run into canter and be completely off balance. Great way to get a horse to fall. 

I do however agree with a few other posters- this sounds like an issue of the horse not feeling confident enough in the riders balance to move up to canter. I think people forget how much hard work it is for a horse to do- and if the horse is unbalanced at the canter just from lack of training, add in a wobbly rider and you have a fall waiting to happen. 

OP have you had your instructor try to ride your horse? If so, what was the outcome?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Agree - and its also not easy to push a horse forwards with your legs when you're in 2 point.
As above also - have you seen someone else ride the horse in canter?


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> I would also ask about your experience. Just the fact that you call it "running" as opposed to a gait name would suggest to me that you are a newbie. Rule out pain, and perhaps get a trainer to help you before you end up with a horse who is numb to the aids.


I called it "running" to categorize canter and gallop together. Yes, I am still a newbie, but I am learning from the people at the rescue I ride at currently. Thank you for the suggestions.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

The best investment you could make for both you and your horse at this point would be formal lessons at a good reputable lesson facility. A good coach will be able to tell you if your horse is suitable for you to be learning on or if you should be considering some lessons on a schoolie before you transition back to your own horse.

You want to start off on the right foot. Depending on who is working with you at the rescue you could be receiving good advice, or bad advice. You want to avoid the latter or your experience moving forward will not be positive.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

PrivatePilot said:


> That's what I was thinking.
> 
> Some horses that don't feel like their rider is balanced or stable enough to allow them to transition without them losing their own balance will just refuse the transition. It's basic self preservation.
> 
> What is your riding skill level, and amount of formal training?


I am still new to riding, I have been doing it regularly for about 2-2 1/2 months now but just started riding Cinder.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

DancingArabian said:


> What discipline are you riding?
> 
> How are you asking her to canter? If you're just kicking her, or "nudging" her she may not have a clue what you want. My horse certainly wouldn't, nor would many others.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I ride Western.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

That isn't a very long time to be riding and trying to retrain a horse with probably no known history of previous ability as well
I would suggest you have some lessons on a horse that's easy to get into canter first so you can get a feel for it


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

jaydee said:


> Agree - and its also not easy to push a horse forwards with your legs when you're in 2 point.
> As above also - have you seen someone else ride the horse in canter?


No, she does only a trot with everyone.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

jaydee said:


> That isn't a very long time to be riding and trying to retrain a horse with probably no known history of previous ability as well
> I would suggest you have some lessons on a horse that's easy to get into canter first so you can get a feel for it


I had been riding a Quarter before I rode Cinder. She would go from walk, to trot, to jog, to canter, and I had been riding her for about a month and a half.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Is she a rescue? If so, they often have all kinds of underlying issues that may have been the reason for someone to "throw her away". Until all of her possible lameness issues (however subtle) and the tack fit issues are resolved, you may not have a horse who wants to canter/gallop out of simple pain. It is not often for a rescue horse to be completely without physical or behavioral issues, IME.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Agree Allison! I have an old guy who I retired, who is now free leased to a therapeutic program because he no longer canters. (well, I can get him to, but rarely left lead, and it is VERY animated…..) because of his arthritis and hock issues. He will NOT canter for anyone but my daughter or myself, who he knows well and trusts. I have a feeling that Cinder may have some underlying issues.

Normally, at any rescues I have been familiar with, the horses are evaluated by EXPERIENCED horse people just for this reason.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Allison Finch said:


> Is she a rescue? If so, they often have all kinds of underlying issues that may have been the reason for someone to "throw her away". Until all of her possible lameness issues (however subtle) and the tack fit issues are resolved, you may not have a horse who wants to canter/gallop out of simple pain. It is not often for a rescue horse to be completely without physical or behavioral issues, IME.


^^^
Ditto this.
She may just have never been trained to canter under saddle - as a rescue, who knows for sure what her previous training was. Maybe she physically can't and that's why she ended up there. Her tack might not fit well, she may be lame or hurting somewhere, or it could just flat out be that you don't know how to ask her.

Too many unknowns.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

Allison Finch said:


> Is she a rescue? If so, they often have all kinds of underlying issues that may have been the reason for someone to "throw her away". Until all of her possible lameness issues (however subtle) and the tack fit issues are resolved, you may not have a horse who wants to canter/gallop out of simple pain. It is not often for a rescue horse to be completely without physical or behavioral issues, IME.


Yes, her previous owners didn't have enough money for feed and she starved. The owners I believe surrendered her to the rescue.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Agree Allison! I have an old guy who I retired, who is now free leased to a therapeutic program because he no longer canters. (well, I can get him to, but rarely left lead, and it is VERY animated…..) because of his arthritis and hock issues. He will NOT canter for anyone but my daughter or myself, who he knows well and trusts. I have a feeling that Cinder may have some underlying issues.
> 
> Normally, at any rescues I have been familiar with, the horses are evaluated by EXPERIENCED horse people just for this reason.


I in no way, shape, or form trying to be rude, but please, don't talk down to me for being new to riding. Everyone has to start somewhere, like you and everyone else on this forum. I simply asked a question on how I would go about training a horse simple leg cues. I am new to riding, but NOT new to horses. I have loved them ever since I was little, therefor I have researched a lot about horses. Yes, I am not an experienced rider. I am admittedly open to that, but am learning to be one. And I can not stress this enough, I am not intending to be rude or look for an argument nor am I accusing you of being condescending or rude, but not everyone who is new to riding is new to horses, mind you.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^I don't think anyone was 'talking down' to you for being a beginner, just pointing out this may well be the issue, or part of it at least.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Look, Op. Think of me what you will, really makes no difference to me. But, loving horses and reading about them will not EVER teach you how to ride. Noone here can tell you what this horse knows, how this horse is cued, etc. Sorry, but it just does not work that way, and that is a really good way to mess up yourself AND the horse. Please get some help before this goes very wrong.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I have to agree - you could have 20 years of groundwork with horses, could watch hundreds of hours or video and read 500 books about how to ride one...and you'll still start out as a beginner the first time you actually get your bum in the saddle. 

There's no replacement for time in the saddle and a good coach to help you along. 

I'd reiterate my earlier suggestion, with the best of intent, to take some lessons. You may find that once you refine your riding ability, as well as have a professional ride your horse for you at lease once and "figure him out" for you (seeing what he understands for cues, responds to, ignores, can and cannot do, etc etc), that things will come together dramatically better between you and him moving forward.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Look, Op. Think of me what you will, really makes no difference to me. But, loving horses and reading about them will not EVER teach you how to ride. Noone here can tell you what this horse knows, how this horse is cued, etc. Sorry, but it just does not work that way, and that is a really good way to mess up yourself AND the horse. Please get some help before this goes very wrong.


I respect your opinion. I understand people on this forum don't know what she knows and I also understand loving horses and researching about them won't teach me how to ride, but I am being taught by people who have owned horses ever since they were little. I apologize for overreacting, I was out of line.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

If you are being taught, then your "teachers" who are there, should be able to help you. Have they gotten on the horse at all?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

On a positive note, bravo for taking in a rescue and offering him a second life. Just start off on the right foot so that 6 months from now you're not here asking questions about why your horse has gone sour, or lame.

I too thought I was a "decent" rider years ago. I too "learned" a lot on my own and with the help of a few friends, who years later I learned knew little more than me. The first time I went to an honest to goodness lesson barn with experienced coaches it was a REAL eye opener for me and I soon realized exactly how poor a rider I was and how much I had to learn.

That said, I had foundations to work with at least, as it sounds like you do - I could WTC, I knew ground handling, and I wasn't scared. I came a long way really fast and it made me an exponentially better rider. I'm still no pro, but now I understand things I had no idea about before, and I also understand that there's probably a few horses out there that woul dread seeing me again based on how I used to ride them. Don't let that be your horse. 

Cheers.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> If you are being taught, then your "teachers" who are there, should be able to help you. Have they gotten on the horse at all?


That I know of, 2 people who I know rode her for about 15 minutes.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

PrivatePilot said:


> On a positive note, bravo for taking in a rescue and offering him a second life. Just start off on the right foot so that 6 months from now you're not here asking questions about why your horse has gone sour, or lame.
> 
> I too thought I was a "decent" rider years ago. I too "learned" a lot on my own and with the help of a few friends, who years later I learned knew little more than me. The first time I went to an honest to goodness lesson barn with experienced coaches it was a REAL eye opener for me and I soon realized exactly how poor a rider I was and how much I had to learn.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm trying to stop bouncing in the saddle :lol:.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Meadow said:


> That I know of, 2 people who I know rode her for about 15 minutes.


Could they get her to lope?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Meadow said:


> Yeah, I'm trying to stop bouncing in the saddle :lol:.


It's that very bounce that may be causing her to refuse to pickup the canter/lope. Something you do work on in lessons is smoothly sitting the trot.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Could they get her to lope?


Not that I saw or heard.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

PrivatePilot said:


> It's that very bounce that may be causing her to refuse to pickup the canter/lope. Something you do work on in lessons is smoothly sitting the trot.


That's what I was thinking earlier today. Luckily its not a crazy, all over the place, out of control bounce :lol:, but I can definitely see it being painful to take onto a higher speed.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Meadow said:


> I in no way, shape, or form trying to be rude, but please, don't talk down to me for being new to riding. Everyone has to start somewhere, like you and everyone else on this forum. I simply asked a question on how I would go about training a horse simple leg cues. I am new to riding, but NOT new to horses. I have loved them ever since I was little, therefor I have researched a lot about horses. Yes, I am not an experienced rider. I am admittedly open to that, but am learning to be one. And I can not stress this enough, I am not intending to be rude or look for an argument nor am I accusing you of being condescending or rude, but not everyone who is new to riding is new to horses, mind you.


Ok, OP, no one was being rude, but you are here, and I'm glad you realized it!

I've OWNED my horse for a bit over two years now. Not just read in books, OWNED. I am still a green rider. If I'm asking for riding/training advice, I receive it and I don't complain about being "talked down to" unless they are out of line, which no one here was! Trust me...there are other places where that will occur, and this is not it!

That being said, if the horse isn't comfortable with the way you're riding, she may not canter. It's that simple. And if there's nothing wrong with saddle fit or the horse physically, it's entirely possible you need more riding experience and skill to be on this horse. 

It's nothing to be ashamed of, because everyone does start somewhere.
Also...no need to use the term "running"....using the incorrect terminology can and will have people assuming you're a complete horse beginner, whether you like that or not. 

It would be honestly better, if you can't take any form of criticism, to use the search function, and read, read, read, read. JMO, but it has proven to be helpful.....


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

If that is you on her in the avatar picture?

You are in her mouth, your toes are down and that saddle in no way shape or form should be used on her.

You need lessons. And you should not be attempting to do anything with a horse when you know so little about what you are doing to begin with. Much less trying to run one.

I also have serious reservations about a "rescue" that would turn you loose with a horse in the first place, or anyone no better versed than you are in horses.

This is a living animal that has already had a bad break, and your "training" attempts could finish her off too.

Until you have some lessons, AND know what you don't know, you don't need to be doing anything from horseback.

The horse will pay the price for your ignorance.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Some horses don't know how to shift into a canter with a rider. My mare was raised in corrals, and barely knew enough to canter without a rider. I saw her fall several times cantering with no rider, saddle, etc. And when I've visited stables and watched students cantering, a lot more bounced the canter than rode the canter. I also saw folks trying to force their horse to canter while they were still pulling on his mouth, and wondering why he refused.

I'm not saying you are doing any of that, or that your horse doesn't understand how to be asked for a canter...but it is possible. Thinking about when I was learning to ride, and watching my family members learn to ride - none of us had any business cantering before 9-12 months of riding.

FWIW, here is my favorite video on cantering:


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

bsms said:


> none of us had any business cantering before 9-12 months of riding.


Not sure I'd agree with that. Most lesson barns will have people at the canter as soon as they're safe proceed to it. Good balance, proper seat, quiet enough hands. Yes, it'll be on a pokey horse that is tolerant of all the mistakes that come along with a first canter, but the rider will canter nontheless.

In my experience most riders achieve that with 3-5 weeks of lessons, assuming once a week lessons with adequate progress during each. Some do it much quicker.

A good coach makes all the difference.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

PrivatePilot said:


> Not sure I'd agree with that. Most lesson barns will have people at the canter as soon as they're safe proceed to it. Good balance, proper seat, quiet enough hands. Yes, it'll be on a pokey horse that is tolerant of all the mistakes that come along with a first canter, but the rider will canter nontheless.
> 
> *In my experience most riders achieve that with 3-5 weeks of lessons, assuming once a week lessons with adequate progress during each. Some do it much quicker.*
> 
> A good coach makes all the difference.


The bolded has been my experience, and I am far from known for my grace!!!!

Which of course doesn't mean we're good at it after 3-5 weeks....and the darn lesson horse will make you *WORK* for that canter.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My DIL cantered on a lesson horse her second ride. That doesn't mean she had any business cantering on a non-lesson horse. And yes, folks progress at various rates, and those of us who start at 50 may well progress slower.

But what I wrote was what I saw: the large majority of riders getting lessons who were cantering when I watched were bouncing the canter, not riding it. And if one of them got on a horse who wasn't fully comfortable with cantering, I wouldn't expect the horse to canter right away, with enthusiasm.



demonwolfmoon said:


> ...and the darn lesson horse will make you *WORK* for that canter.


Yup. And my sympathy is with the darn lesson horse. This comment by maura reflects what I've seen:



maura said:


> Riding the canter correctly and well in a full seat is difficult, and many more riders do it badly than do it well. As Allison stated above, it requires a degree of abdominal fitness, as well as correct position, relaxation and a good understanding of gait mechanics and how the horse's back moves. That's out of reach for a lot of recreational riders. I would much rather see an elementary or intermediate rider cantering in half seat, allowing the horse to move freely, than someone attempting and failing a full following seat and punishing the horse's back in the process.
> 
> There is nothing inherently insecure about riding the canter in half-seat or two point as long as the rider is in balance.


http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/riding-canter-half-seat-120340/

I'm glad others have seen new riders gracefully flowing with the horse at a canter within weeks. That is NOT what I've seen.

If the OP is riding in a half-seat, I'll take my comment back. It was after reading maura's comment that I tried a canter in a half-seat, and found it much easier to do. But I'm not certain that is what the OP is attempting, and "_someone attempting and failing a full following seat and punishing the horse's back in the process_" is more in line with what I've seen. But I don't spend a lot of time watching students learn to ride, so maybe my experience is atypical. :?


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

bsms said:


> I'm glad others have seen new riders gracefully flowing with the horse at a canter within weeks. That is NOT what I've seen.


Your experience with horses is limited.

I've posted before that my family has owned a farm for over 50 years. Hundreds of students learned to ride there, and I'd say just about every one of them posted in their first lesson and cantered within weeks.


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## armyrdr (Sep 23, 2013)

I agree with whoever said 1) reevaluate for pain, 2) put an experienced rider on her in the proper fitting equipment to see how she behaves for them, and 3) build her up to a lope from the ground. This is what i had to do with my gelding.
Most people would agree that good foundations start on the ground.

I would agree with getting lessons if you can. But do try to work on your form and seat.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Only read the first page, but I will say if you don't know how to make the horse go fast, or what the proper cues are or how they are used, you may probably aren't ready to go fast. I'd find someone to work with. If she needs a tune up, which she probably does, get someone else to do it, then jump on. She may just be a lazy horse too, which you can work on with training, but won't change completely, or she may just be lazy because she needs a tune up.

Also, to build on the saddle fit comment, since she has been out of work and in poor condition she will need to build up her topline. Saddle fit is even more important in this case, but even with a perfect saddle that will still take time. Does she canter on the lunge?

Will read the in-between pages and check back in!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

updownrider said:


> Your experience with horses is limited.
> 
> I've posted before that my family has owned a farm for over 50 years. Hundreds of students learned to ride there, and I'd say just about every one of them posted in their first lesson and cantered within weeks.


Yes, my experience is limited. However, I'm not a fool. Please notice what I wrote - "_And when I've visited stables and watched students cantering, a lot more bounced the canter than rode the canter. I also saw folks trying to force their horse to canter while they were still pulling on his mouth, and wondering why he refused._"

We had a French exchange student visit us this summer. He had ridden ponies some years earlier, but they were small ponies and he had not ridden in years. He took a turn riding Mia, and he cantered. Yes, he stayed on. Yes, she behaved herself - ears pinned as he bounced and hung on the reins, but she behaved herself. He didn't ride her again.

Yes, I know people often canter within a few rides, as my DIL did. The reason my DIL cantered on her second time on a horse was so she would learn it wasn't scary, and that if her horse cantered later on, to just ride him and not panic. But that did not mean she wasn't hard on his mouth and back while cantering. As I described - she bounced the canter. There is a big difference between staying on at a canter, and "_someone attempting and [succeeding at] a full following seat and [not] punishing the horse's back in the process._" 

Now consider the OP's situation: "..._I have been doing it regularly for about 2-2 1/2 months now but just started riding Cinder_". And it seems Cinder is less than thrilled to canter or gallop. Could there be a link? Hmmm....

Without seeing her ride, I don't know. Staying on a canter is easy. Riding a full following seat and doing it well is not something I've seen many do within a couple of rides. And when it is not done well, some horses avoid it.

Post #34:


PrivatePilot said:


> It's that very bounce that may be causing her to refuse to pickup the canter/lope. Something you do work on in lessons is smoothly sitting the trot.


Post 37:


demonwolfmoon said:


> ...That being said, if the horse isn't comfortable with the way you're riding, she may not canter. It's that simple. And if there's nothing wrong with saddle fit or the horse physically, it's entirely possible you need more riding experience and skill to be on this horse...


Post 39 (mine):


bsms said:


> ...And when I've visited stables and watched students cantering, a lot more bounced the canter than rode the canter. I also saw folks trying to force their horse to canter while they were still pulling on his mouth, and wondering why he refused...Thinking about when I was learning to ride, and watching my family members learn to ride - none of us had any business cantering before 9-12 months of riding...


Hmmm...I guess I'm missing what I wrote that is so radical. "*...there are only two criteria of your position; a) are you in fluid balance and rhythm with your horse or not? b) does your seat enable you to control your horse efficiently?*" - V.S. Littauer

Maybe my idea of what constitutes being "in fluid balance and rhythm with your horse" differs from others. And if you are not comfortable sitting the trot, then I think cantering should be for fear-avoidance only. Also - I've seen a lot of new riders posting the trot in a way that would make me pull them off of my horse. Doing it gently and fluidly seems to be harder than what the folks I've seen in southern Arizona normally achieve on their first lesson riding...


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Meadow said:


> That's what I was thinking earlier today. Luckily its not a crazy, all over the place, out of control bounce :lol:, but I can definitely see it being painful to take onto a higher speed.


You need to sit into the saddle to cue her to canter. You are getting stuck in that in between point that is very easy to get stuck in and very hard to get out of. You could teach her to run into the canter, but that bouncing will get worse, and I bet you would continue at the canter, and then you will have to teach her how NOT to run into the canter too.

At this point in time you have no business teaching a horse to canter. Why are YOU doing this? You have a horse of completely unknown history, and you put a beginner on her back to see if she canters. What if she has a complete meltdown? You could be seriously injured, and the horse could be ruined like this.

If these have experienced people why haven't they cantered her yet? Honestly, I would be _extremely_ skeptical of any "teacher" who would let a beginner on a rescue horse to "run" when the horse has been ridden very minimally and only W/T. Not trying to diss, just trying to say maybe you should look into another teacher.

Keep on riding your other horse, work on getting you canter- the cue and how to ride it, and how to sit the canter properly. Keep on riding your mare W/T and have someone experienced ride and canter her to make sure everything is good there and to get her used to it as well. ONLY when you and the mare are completely comfortable separately should you be cantering together. For safety, and training (and fun!). Again, fact, at this point in time you are a beginner. We can only work off that. Get walk trot, then canter, then when those are 100% solid and can be controlled completely at different speeds, you can work on speed and "running".

And not to nitpick, just educate. "trot" and "jog" are the same thing. Even if you use the terms separately (trot is English, jog western) then technically jog is that extremely slow "hop" version of a trot. A jog is never faster than a trot.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Palomine said:


> You are in her mouth, your toes are down and that saddle in no way shape or form should be used on her. ...
> Until you have some lessons, AND know what you don't know, you don't need to be doing anything from horseback..


Um... I take that back that no one's 'speaking down'. Re the first comments, IMO just phooeyness, that you can tell 2/3 of that from the avatar pic! OP may well be 'in her mouth', but you can't tell. Saddle may well be sh**e but come on, you can't even see it clearly, let alone tell it's fit from that angle!


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

Palomine said:


> If that is you on her in the avatar picture?
> 
> You are in her mouth, your toes are down and that saddle in no way shape or form should be used on her.
> 
> ...


Okay. From what I remember, the reins were not tight because I hadn't been corrected on them. My toes very well may have been down, but I have been working on that. I was told by the rescue volunteers that the saddle would be okay. I got negative feedback for using that saddle on her, so I will inform the staff as soon as I can. I am in lessons currently, and if I do something wrong, I am corrected. Yes, being new to riding I know little about the subject. Though, I was not going to go about training her until I had an experienced rider/trainer/owner ect.'s opinion. I wouldn't put any horse in danger knowingly. Before I do something with/on a horse, I check in to see if it is being done correctly. If not, I am corrected and shown how to do it the right way. Thank you for your opinion.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

While I completely believe what you said (and good for you!)
You said that she "wouldn't" run.. so you have tried... were you asked to try?


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> You need to sit into the saddle to cue her to canter. You are getting stuck in that in between point that is very easy to get stuck in and very hard to get out of. You could teach her to run into the canter, but that bouncing will get worse, and I bet you would continue at the canter, and then you will have to teach her how NOT to run into the canter too.
> 
> At this point in time you have no business teaching a horse to canter. Why are YOU doing this? You have a horse of completely unknown history, and you put a beginner on her back to see if she canters. What if she has a complete meltdown? You could be seriously injured, and the horse could be ruined like this.
> 
> ...


I believe she had been ridden close to after they got her. The horses they rescue are put up for adoption, but they let people come over and learn to ride on their horses. If they are experienced, they get to choose what horse they would like to ride unless they aren't/in the process of being broken. If they are newbies, (like me :lol they ride the horses who have been known for never being aggressive unless you are doing something wrong. Nobody chose Cinder to ride, and I liked her from the start and wanted to work with her. And thank you for the information, it is very helpful. And thank you for the correction! I didn't want to look funny saying both as a different term in speed :lol:.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> While I completely believe what you said (and good for you!)
> You said that she "wouldn't" run.. so you have tried... were you asked to try?


I wasn't asked to try, but it was just a quick little "test" to see if she would. I continued throughout the time I was riding to see if she would, but no responses.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Meadow said:


> I believe she had been ridden close to after they got her. The horses they rescue are put up for adoption, but they let people come over and learn to ride on their horses. If they are experienced, they get to choose what horse they would like to ride unless they aren't/in the process of being broken. If they are newbies, (like me :lol they ride the horses who have been known for never being aggressive unless you are doing something wrong. Nobody chose Cinder to ride, and I liked her from the start and wanted to work with her. And thank you for the information, it is very helpful. And thank you for the correction! I didn't want to look funny saying both as a different term in speed :lol:.


 OK, I think I'm starting to understand now. I still don't agree with using a horse for "lessons" and having the horse do something that an experienced rider hasn't done first to make sure everything's OK, especially as you progress into more advanced things- the horse is more likely to take off at a canter than a walk, for example.

Yes, they are the same gait, just different names, and to be technical a jog is very different (but still the same gait!) as a trot. Often confused because a lot of people (depending on English/western) use them interchangeably.
I'm sure you know what a trot is, and a real jog is the same, just much slower and more collected. Same with canter/lope. Just different terms and styles of the same thing. I tried to find a video, but I'm just getting extreme western pleasure videos where the horses basically look crippled lol. I'm sure you get what I mean though!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Meadow said:


> I wasn't asked to try, but it was just a quick little "test" to see if she would. I continued throughout the time I was riding to see if she would, but no responses.


 
OK. I will mention that isn't safe, on a horse you don't know, and that no one really knows, but obv she didn't freak out over it. I wonder if they have you riding her (W/T) because they know she has issues picking up the canter and haven't bothered working on it yet?

Also, if you had ANY worry "Maybe I shouldn't be doing this" in the back of your head, that could definitely contribute, as some people mentioned if you aren't 100% into the canter the horse will know and probably not canter. They can pick up on anything. I used to have that issue a lot with overthinking the canter and stressing and the horse wouldn't pick it up (when asked by me and the instructor in a lesson setting) just because I was tense, even though I _wanted _to canter and was trying to relax.

I would talk to the person you are working with and tell them you really want to canter her and could you work on that. As I suggested before, keep on working with the other horse so you really know how to canter and know the correct cues. Once you are ready with her try on Cinder, WITH your teacher present.

Definitely ask though, because there could be a training issue there or a physical issue too. You wouldn't want to hurt the horse. I know I have been there too with "tests" and trying to do things I maybe wasn't instructed to do, hey I still do it a little, though with much smaller things. But long story short, it obviously can be extremely dangerous. Heck, I always even ask if it's ok to use a crop on a horse before I give them a smack. Some horses will start a rodeo and it's good to know beforehand! Especially for you, you sound like you are doing great for how long you have been riding, but you are still a beginner. If she goes nuts I would hate to have you get hurt, or set back your riding mentally. I wouldn't take a horse I didn't know anything about and do something I was still learning on a quiet school horse. So please be careful! No harm in asking and you may learn something, maybe something important to the horse too.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

Palomine said:


> If that is you on her in the avatar picture?
> 
> You are in her mouth, your toes are down and that saddle in no way shape or form should be used on her.
> 
> ...


People come here for kind, constructive criticism and advice, and was rude and uncalled for. Almost every post I see you make is condescending and negative. No one is a perfect rider, not even you. OP, there's nothing wrong with not being able to sit the canter or trot perfectly yet. You're learning. And that's fine. 
I hope you and your horse work things out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Rideordie112 said:


> People come here for kind, constructive criticism and advice, and was rude and uncalled for. Almost every post I see you make is condescending and negative. No one is a perfect rider, not even you. OP, there's nothing wrong with not being able to sit the canter or trot perfectly yet. You're learning. And that's fine.
> I hope you and your horse work things out!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sidetrack:You are new. For you to come here and generalize about a long time member is rude also. Hang around a while. You will find that some members don't use fluffy answers to tell the OP what they want to hear. They tell it like they see it. Honestly and straightforward. Some of us appreciate the lack of patronizing. Re read your post. Then reread others. As some of us has said, yes it is fine to be a beginner. However, that is most likely a HUGE contributing factor in why this horse will not "run", and that is the reason for this thread. Learn on another horse. That is what we are saying for the most part.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Meadow, I want to applaud you for asking questions, possibly not getting the answers you wanted, but opening your mind to the advice. Many readers on here do not do that well. So, kudos to you. You will get further in life (all areas of life) by keeping an open mind to new ideas.

I'm 53 have ridden much of my life, worked in barns of various disciplines, and what I know can be put in a thimble with room to spare. So take that into consideration when pondering my limited advice. Also, a horse can still stumped me and I go asking for advice. Nothing wrong with that. I also still take lessons. My coach still takes lessons. There is nothing wrong with taking lessons in order to continually better yourself as a horse person.

She's a cute little horse that I would assume has no good training on her. So I would get her on the lunge and start with walk/trot/whoa on command cues. That will help with the development of conditioning on this little horse, which will help you and her under saddle. No need to canter yet. Do not go faster in training than your ability. If you ask her to do something and she doesn't respond, STOP, and get advice. You are only training her to avoid a rider. So yes, you trained her, but in a negative way.

To prepare for the canter, you have to sit the trot well, then the cue should be a voice command (which was learned on the end of a lunge line) and just slide your outside leg back. In the beginning the transition between the two gaits will be rough, but with training and timing of your cues it can become smooth as butter. Takes TIME, TOUCH, and PRACTICE.

If she is an Arab she can run, trust me. She can run fast and a long way fast. She has no reason to prove that to you. Do not nag her, or one day she may show how fast and how far she can go. Is not pretty; been there, done that, got the hurt back to prove it.

I do agree the saddle is hideous. The saddle pad too. The whole set up looks to forward on her. And I personally do NOT like square skirts on short backed Arabs. Ditch it. That alone could be causing her comfort issues with the square skirt digging into her.

Nothing against the rescue barn, but if they have beginners on horses with unknown history, I would be suspect of said barns training ability. Maybe find a good trainer to come to you.

Just enjoy the small victories on day at a time, and when stumped or stymied, ask for help! Proves you are trying to do well by the horse. And no one here will fault you for that!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't know anything about how people learn to ride western horses 'from scratch' but I taught riding in the UK and have my BHS certification. I can't recall anyone being able to post to trot on their first lesson - because they were never even asked to try to do that. No one was allowed to trot until they knew how to sit correctly on the horse and how to ask for halt, walk away from halt and turn without hauling on the reins. They also had to prove they could balance themselves without using the reins to do that when they did start trotting so it was first done either on the lunge or on the lead rein with the rider holding a neck strap and then with arms folded
OP - it could well be that you are kicking this horse on but at the same time inadvertently pulling on her mouth to keep your own balance which is giving her mixed signals
Some horses don't understand how to go into a canter if they're just 'run' into it - they will just keep trotting faster and faster.
I would have an experienced rider work the horse in canter first
What cues did you use to get the quarter horse into canter?
Was this mare ridden western or English before the rescue got her?


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

I don't know how she had been ridden prior, but I can surely ask if the owner of the rescue knows. And with the other mare, to get her going they are kicked.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

If the horse was surrendered, perhaps the former owner is willing to at least let the rescue know what works with this mare and what her training is. I would think they would have gotten that info from her anyway.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think that would be a good place to start because some horses will only respond to the correct cues if that's what they've been taught
If you look at this link here - there's a lot more to asking for canter than just 'kicking on'
Stop Struggling with Canter Departs


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

The key to what many of us are saying now is that every horse is different – and how they were trained at the very beginning will typically stick with them for the rest of their lives. Kicking may work to cue a transition on one horse, however I have ridden many who will just interpret a kicking leg (and FWIW, kicking is discouraged amongst many when it comes to English riding, anyways) as a cue to pickup the pace at the gait they're at - not transition. 

Somebody else mentioned verbal cues – again if a horse was trained using them they will respond so long as you understand how to use them along with your body language, but on the flipside a lot of horses are trained purely to be ridden by body language and physical cues, with no verbal cues whatsoever. There is over 40 horses at my lesson burn including the Clydesdale in my avatar, and not one of them is trained to respond to verbal cues since they are disallowed in the hunter jumper ring during competition. They're all trained for physical cues only. 

The horse I lease responds magically to verbal cues as well as body language, however all of the schoolies I have ridden ignore verbal cues and respond only to physical cues. Many of the necessary physical cues are so subtle that an inexperienced rider wouldn't even see them, much less understand how to give them.

All of the above is the reasoning behind why many of us are pointing you towards seeking help from a known professional – lessons to begin with, and then an assessment ride (by a highly experienced rider) on your horse to figure him out for you. A well experienced rider will probably have your horse moving like you've never seen him move before (barring physical reasons for his issues so far) as well as be able to almost immediately tell you what sort of cues he was trained for once they get a feel for what he's responding to, and not responding to. 

Once you're ready for each other things will go much smoother. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Sidetrack:You are new. For you to come here and generalize about a long time member is rude also. Hang around a while. You will find that some members don't use fluffy answers to tell the OP what they want to hear. They tell it like they see it. Honestly and straightforward. Some of us appreciate the lack of patronizing. Re read your post. Then reread others. As some of us has said, yes it is fine to be a beginner. However, that is most likely a HUGE contributing factor in why this horse will not "run", and that is the reason for this thread. Learn on another horse. That is what we are saying for the most part.


I may be new, but it doesn't mean I can't make observation as I see them. Telling someone who's opening themselves up for criticism that they have "no business on horseback" or that "the horse will suffer for their ignorance" is a good way to destroy their confidence. It's rude. Plain and simple. Doesn't take a member who's been here for a long time to figure it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

jaydee said:


> I don't know anything about how people learn to ride western horses 'from scratch' but I taught riding in the UK and have my BHS certification. I can't recall anyone being able to post to trot on their first lesson - because they were never even asked to try to do that. No one was allowed to trot until they knew how to sit correctly on the horse and how to ask for halt, walk away from halt and turn without hauling on the reins. They also had to prove they could balance themselves without using the reins to do that when they did start trotting so it was first done either on the lunge or on the lead rein with the rider holding a neck strap and then with arms folded
> OP - it could well be that you are kicking this horse on but at the same time inadvertently pulling on her mouth to keep your own balance which is giving her mixed signals
> Some horses don't understand how to go into a canter if they're just 'run' into it - they will just keep trotting faster and faster.
> I would have an experienced rider work the horse in canter first
> ...


I think a lot of places starting doing more too fast to keep the clients (esp the younger ones) interested. It's something I see a lot of. Even if they don't actually trot yet, they instructor will trot them in hand a lap to say they did it, and practice two point and such.

Heh, I remember a VERY talented 6 year old who had been riding several months who was doing great W/T and "jumping" (ground poles, 6 in xrails) She was pulled by the program because it was felt she wasn't progressing fast enough. She's 6 for goodness sake!! She LOVED the lessons and really was progressing very, very quickly for her level/age. Sorry we won't stick your 6 year old, whos been riding 3 months, on a 16 hand horse and take her cross country just yet. Sigh.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Meadow said:


> I don't know how she had been ridden prior, but I can surely ask if the owner of the rescue knows. And with the other mare, to get her going they are kicked.



Training at it's best. I would ask about using the proper cues.. Not kick to go faster, pull to go slower, pull to turn. If they can't help, I would find another place. You aren't being taught anything worthwhile there, nor is that riding doing your (or any) horse any favors. It is a LOT easier to learn correctly in the first place than to try to relearn. Trust me on this.

For the record, I only kick a horse when they are ignoring my leg (after asking softly) or being a jerk (rode a horse the other day who was intent on eating any horse passing him, a sharp yank on the inside rein, strong outside, and sharp kicking with my heel (several small kicks) to disengage his hind end made him behave physically while also being mental discipline). Kicking is not part of my usual routine. NEVER kick my own horses. They are trained to a very light squeeze and since they know me so well, it feels like they are reading my mind half the time. I started out at a place where you kicked, and kicked, and kicked, and the poor horses were so dead to it you had to half beat them, kicking as hard as you could and using a crop to get them to respond. *the less you ask the more responsive the horse will be* Much more pleasant and easy for both of you.


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## Meadow (Dec 15, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> Training at it's best. I would ask about using the proper cues.. Not kick to go faster, pull to go slower, pull to turn. If they can't help, I would find another place. You aren't being taught anything worthwhile there, nor is that riding doing your (or any) horse any favors. It is a LOT easier to learn correctly in the first place than to try to relearn. Trust me on this.
> 
> For the record, I only kick a horse when they are ignoring my leg (after asking softly) or being a jerk (rode a horse the other day who was intent on eating any horse passing him, a sharp yank on the inside rein, strong outside, and sharp kicking with my heel (several small kicks) to disengage his hind end made him behave physically while also being mental discipline). Kicking is not part of my usual routine. NEVER kick my own horses. They are trained to a very light squeeze and since they know me so well, it feels like they are reading my mind half the time. I started out at a place where you kicked, and kicked, and kicked, and the poor horses were so dead to it you had to half beat them, kicking as hard as you could and using a crop to get them to respond. *the less you ask the more responsive the horse will be* Much more pleasant and easy for both of you.


Oh, I didn't mean kick. I didn't know what to call it, so that seemed fit :lol:. I have been taught to do little taps a little harder each time they ignore it.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sorry for the double post, but to expand on the kicking thing a little. IF you have to kick, one hard get the point across (after asking nicely first) is much more effective. You can try this in your own time without a trainer too. Ask nicely, then a little harder, then MAKE her listen. Eventually you can work it down to a nice little squeeze "let's trot", make sure you prepare her too, get a little more energy, prepare yourself, let her know something's changing, she will be more inclined to trot if she knows you want her to before you cue, as opposed to all this kicking out of the blue.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Meadow said:


> Oh, I didn't mean kick. I didn't know what to call it, so that seemed fit :lol:. I have been taught to do little taps a little harder each time they ignore it.


Your leg should not need to come off the horse unless you are kicking and if you do kick make it count. That tapping sounds annoying to me and I'm not even involved! lol.

If she has been trained to the "tapping" one or two taps should do it, if not she is not trained to that and it's not effective (and/or annoying :lol.. it will be a long way tapping harder until you kick hard enough to make your point. In the meantime trot to canter she will of sped up so you are bouncing so hard you can't canter. Again, as long as that is her cue, but tapping sounds odd to me (sounds like she hasn't really been trained for it either). Nagging is not the same as effectively "moving up the incentive" as I said previously. Personally I would always squeeze because it gives the horse energy too as opposed to just telling the horse to change gait. Tapping sounds like a different version of kicking. You should have different cues for different gaits and cues within those gaits for different speeds, etc. You don't need to worry about specifics yet, but need to figure out a trot cue and when you're ready a canter cue.

Also, flapping your legs around makes it harder to ride effectively. I would focus on keeping your legs on the horse and sitting in the saddle at this point. (meaning not bouncing)


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Rideordie112 said:


> I may be new, but it doesn't mean I can't make observation as I see them. Telling someone who's opening themselves up for criticism that they have "no business on horseback" or that "the horse will suffer for their ignorance" is a good way to destroy their confidence. It's rude. Plain and simple. Doesn't take a member who's been here for a long time to figure it out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We will have to agree to disagree. Some of us call it like we see it and don't sugarcoat. Period. Honestly-I agree with what she posted. This rider needs an INSTRUCTOR to gain confidence, as well as miles on a BTDT horse. Not a rescue whose background is unknown. If she tried that on my old guy she would be face first in the dirt. And he is a therapy horse. He just will not tolerate anyone who bounces, kicks, pulls, to canter him. He will give them one stride, then-if they bounce-they get ejected. Walk/trot all is good.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> We will have to agree to disagree. Some of us call it like we see it and don't sugarcoat. Period. Honestly-I agree with what she posted. This rider needs an INSTRUCTOR to gain confidence, as well as miles on a BTDT horse. Not a rescue whose background is unknown. If she tried that on my old guy she would be face first in the dirt. And he is a therapy horse. He just will not tolerate anyone who bounces, kicks, pulls, to canter him. He will give them one stride, then-if they bounce-they get ejected. Walk/trot all is good.


 I see what you're saying, I just thought it was a bit harsh. But like you said, some people don't sugar coat and that's fine.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

jaydee said:


> I can't recall anyone being able to post to trot on their first lesson - because they were never even asked to try to do that.


Then you may be surprised that my kids both did... not only that, but were able to close their eyes & accurately pick which hind foot was stepping forward at a walk & a trot!! I remember thinking to myself when the instructor asked (kids were 6yo & 8yo at the time) that it was too much to expect that on the first lesson. Think it took me a while to work out which foot was doing what at any given time, let alone the hind ones!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> You will find that some members don't use fluffy answers to tell the OP what they want to hear. They tell it like they see it. Honestly and straightforward. Some of us appreciate the lack of patronizing.


I think I'm definitely one that 'tells it like I see it' & I do realise I'm not the most... diplomatic person & I've been a bit too negative at times, can't help 'biting' occasionally, but trying to be polite & respectful doesn't mean you have to be 'fluffy' or dishonest. I find posts such as that discussed as far more patronising than any 'fluffy' ones too.

At any rate, OP & Rideordie, if you're new here, I think you'll find people on the whole polite & respectful. I'm proud to be a member here for that reason, among others. 

We should all remember to read & respond to posts in a 'charitable' manner though, because being from so many different cultures & languages, not to mention only having the written word to go on, there are always going to be many misunderstandings & things taken the wrong way.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

loosie said:


> Then you may be surprised that my kids both did... not only that, but were able to close their eyes & accurately pick which hind foot was stepping forward at a walk & a trot!! I remember thinking to myself when the instructor asked (kids were 6yo & 8yo at the time) that it was too much to expect that on the first lesson. Think it took me a while to work out which foot was doing what at any given time, let alone the hind ones!


Not at all surprised - my children also learnt really fast, there are always exceptions and young children frequently learn faster than adults - almost always. They usually have less fear of falling - and tend to bounce really well when they do
The biggest concern with pushing people too hard is that if something goes wrong because they weren't properly educated to deal with it they can have their confidence badly knocked and give up altogether


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah saw a horse spook and "take off" on a little girl. She stopped him well but you could tell she was a little nervous and had fallen off on the previous ride. The lesson was stopped and a HUGE deal was made about what happened and how well she handled it to really make her feel successful about the whole thing. Obviously if the horse had actually taken off, or had been a different horse she would of been in trouble, but she did the best she could, got the horse stopped and REALLY needed a confidence boost. She left with a big smile on her face, and will be back to have fun.


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