# Has anyone met an untrainable horse?



## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm just wondering if anyone has met a horse that could not be trained- no matter how long you tried. I've never heard of it happening before, but am curious if its possible.
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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

no. though i have met horses that weren't worth training.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

I've met incapable trainers, but no untrainable horses.

Any horse can be trained to do SOMETHING.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Oh, I think any horse will learn something, even if it is how to better avoid work.

But I have met more than one that was never a trustworthy horse to ride.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I have a collection of17 rescues at the rescue I co-run, each of them are either 'untrainable' or seriously over trained (broken). For the longest time I truly thought the ones that were labelled 'untrainable' really were. 

There was an 18 year old pony we got at our rescue who had lived her life completely wild on someone's 20 acre property. It took 6 men 5 hours of herding to get her into a stock trailer to get her to us. When we got her we worked very hard to get her to the point where we could lead her in and out to her paddock - but that was enough. As an 18y/o terrified animal we decided it was best for everyone to just let her live it out. 
A little girl volunteer at our rescue saw something more in our wild pony. She spent 2 weeks sitting in front of the pony's stalls, then in the stall, until the pony became curious. Eventually she could pet her whole front half without issue. When she went into the paddock her pony would follow her every where, even over poles and little jumps (At liberty!). We thought 'that's so sweet, but she can't actually learn anything useful', because you can't take the typical approach with her. Most horses you teach them to yield to pressure. With this pony if you look at any part of her squarely she's yielding as far from you as she can get. So we let her little girl play with her however she liked. 
At this point I started venturing into clicker training with one of our 'untrainable' ponies who had been a stud too long. He had violently attacked his previous NH trainer. I got the pony to start targetting the end of a crop and a foot ball and backing up on a verbal cue. He was doing great - I explained the process to the girl who loved our wild pony. She started. The pony quicky picked up the concept. She recently had her first un-tranqued farrier session because she had become so comfortable having her feet handled by the little girl - with clicker training. More and more this pony is learning, now her little girl can lean over her back resting and hug her around the top. The pony is too small to ride, but she has done SO well! She will target things to jump over jumps and go through obstacle courses with 'scary' objects. I'm amazed!

My pony, the violent one, has found a better way to let out his energy - fetching the foot ball for my fiance  They love playing together now! 

The little girl and her wild pony 'jumping'


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It's amaxing what just sittin by a horse's stall tells the horse - "I'm here for you when you're ready". I would drive my quad out in the field close to my fearful horse and just sit and read. At first he'd high tail it in fear but because the other didn't leave he gradually got used to me asking nothing of him. If he got worried he'd move off but not with the energy he did initially. I think both of you are doing a marvellous job. We can't think about the animal's history or we don't move forward as we should.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

You're so right - it's so easy to get caught up in the trap of 'well this happened to him so he can't _____' but really if instead you just try you'd be amazed what you can do! Sometime you need to try a different approach - everyone learns differently!

ETA: I was just thinking, Not trying to retrain a horse who had been abused by a person would be like telling someone who fell off a horse not to get back on!


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## Lins (Nov 8, 2011)

I've rehabbed 2 that were 'untrainable' and 'insane'. Both made amazing riding horses, but total one woman horses. Lots of time, and patience and anything is possib le.
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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks everyone. Those are some lovely stories.
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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

All horses are trainable to an extent. 

all trustable? No

But I've seen mannyyyy 'wild' and/or abused horses become very nice horses. 

I knew a mare that only her trainer could mess with. 
He had her trust and respect. But until the day she died she'd attack anyone else. Even through their vehicle. She's try to get them through the window xD


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes I have and she remained untrainable. 

I am guessing I bought a drugged horse, as the one that came home was totally different than the one I bought. 

Her default response to every situation was a full rear, not a little pop up in the air, but 100% vertical. 
Under saddle she would run off. In canter, she would go into a bucking bronco ride, full out rodeo. 

I spent a year working her just in the walk. When we had that down, I moved to trot - spent a good 6 months working her in the trot. Attempted canter, right back to square one. She fully vet checked, her problems were in her head not her body. 

So I took her back to ground work and was in the process of restarting her - when she nearly hurt someone at the barn who was simply trying to take her out to her pasture. 

At that point I had to seriously ask myself why I was paying to board this horse, when I can only afford one. I listed her for sale, free. Fully disclosed her problems and obviously got no interest. I decided if I got no bites by the time the next board was due, I was going to euth her. 

A nice couple came out with a trailer. They were unconcerned about her problems, and said they have rehabbed many horses in a war bridle. Whatever, good luck - they took her. I'd imagine that she was probably shipped to slaughter, and the rehabbing was nonsense, but it did give her an opportunity that the vets needle would not have given her. 

I was an idiot, and my pride got in the way of admitting that I had made a stupid mistake. I put so much money into the worthless horse, heck board alone was $400 a month. My husband and I went without while I continued to pour more money into the horse that frankly I didn't even like. 

It would be nice to think that the nice couple were able to do something with her. However I have not lost any sleep over her potentially ending up on a dinner plate, if that was her outcome. 

I will never make that same mistake again.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

About 30 years ago I had a consignment of jump racers come from the Irish sales. All were three or four years old. All would have been taught to lunge prior to the sales and most of the four year old horses had been ridden.

Our routine with these youngsters was to lunge them the first couple of days and regardless of what the sale catalogue said we treated them all as unbroken.

After they had settled we would put a roller on them. I would have the lunge whilst Mary put the roller on. Normally they would have a fling if they had not had it on before and then settle.

On this occasion one big three year old had a real hissy fit with the roller. He bucked around for several minutes and then he turned and came at me. 
When I say 'came at me' he really meant to kill me. Ears flat back, mouth open and punching with his front feet. 
Luckily the lunge whip made him turn away.
It was over three hours before I could get to him and get the roller off.
He was bathed off and put back in his stable.
That evening when we went to do the horses I went to look in his stable and he chested the door trying to get me. He was the same with everyone. 
He had his hay thrown over the door and left to stew. He had smashed up his water container. 
That horse went three days before he would put his head over the door sociably and I could get a halter on him. 

I started taking this horse for long walks. I had a surcingle with me and would throw it on and off his back. Slowly I could hold it together and as the buckle had no tongue, pull it tighter and release it.

After some time I put a roller on him in the stable. He went berserk. I just shut the top door on him and left him to it. 
During the night he rolled and got cast. He did get himself back over but was terribly lame. Muscles were torn so he was turned out to grass to heal.

The trainer, about 3 months later took him to her place for an open day. The head lad went to put a rug on him. The horse knocked the girl who was holding him over and flew at the head lad - who cleared the stable door. The horse chested the door and chased after him. He ran into a garage where all new stable doors were stacked and squeezed between the doors. The horse followed and was rearing up, he smashed the roof, and was pulling the doors down to get at the lad.

That horse was destroyed the next day.

I do not know if he could have been ridden or not. He was certainly mentally unstable, no horse acts the way he did. There might have been something that happened earlier in his life but, whatever, he was far to dangerous to have around.


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## gothicangel69 (Aug 2, 2011)

I guess some horses, like dogs, are born mentally unstable and are more prone to aggression than others. Wonder if that's genetics, or just a random fluke?? And if it is genetics, could the same be said about people? Now I've become very curious. Lol
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## CCBella (Jul 6, 2010)

A friend of mine had a lovely paint warmblood filly who she had high hopes for. This filly was raised by them from 4 months old along with several other youngsters. From the start she was not untrainable but was unpredictable. One minute she would stand quietly beside you while you chatted the next her front feet hit you in the back and her teeth grazed your spine then back to sweetness. She persevered with her and at 4 started the breaking process. Three magic sessions and we're all thinking great she'll be riding out in no time. Fourth session, no different to the last, with total disregard for her own life she completely smashed a roundyard strainer post, shredded the equipment and broke several fences. Several months, Two vets and three highly recommended trainers later the verdict was she had a screw loose. She was euthed at age 5. Turns out her dam is as unpredictable as she was so maybe genetics maybe learned behavior.
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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

gothicangel69 said:


> I'm just wondering if anyone has met a horse that could not be trained- no matter how long you tried. I've never heard of it happening before, but am curious if its possible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think there is such a thing as an untrainable horse. I think every horse can be worked with and trained. The question is can you find someone experienced enough to work with the difficult and complicated horse :wink:


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

My2Geldings said:


> I don't think there is such a thing as an untrainable horse. I think every horse can be worked with and trained. The question is can you find someone experienced enough to work with the difficult and complicated horse :wink:



I agree - There are also a large number of different training styles. Not every style works for every horse - some horses need mixing and matching. Just because _you_ can't train him doesn't mean he's not trainable. Often times horrible behavioral problems are either injury/illness or 'user error'. 

Every horse can be trained. Not every horse can be trusted completely. I have a pony who is incredibly violent, left a wild stud (out in a field with his mom) for his first 12 years. I got him trained well enough to handle very well in hand, will jump over pony jumps in hand, incredibly respectful and kind, let me sit on him a few times. He's a welsh pony, but built like a bull dozer. He could carry me but it'd look seriously stupid xD But regardless of how well trained I get him he will still bite anyone who walks by his stall, regardless of if he gets attacked, one of his handlers went after him with a stick when he tried to bite her, I threw a bucket of water at him that I had in my hand when he tried. He still tries! He's just a stud pony (he's been fixed but far too late to make a difference) He's very competitive and aggressive. At our little pony parade fund raiser he was going over his jumps like he did when we were training and he got startled and got out ahead of me and kicked me right in my knee! I thought I was gonna kill him but with the crowd I politely just held his face in my hands and whispered horrible threats until he controlled himself again. He is trained as well as he needs to be to live out his life at our rescue - with more devoted work he could be trained better - but he will never be trustworthy.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I think those who think every horse can be trained, are really talking about wild horses rather than horses who are truly mentally unstable.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Of course there are untrainable horses. To think they would be the only species that would not have mentally unstable individuals that could not be taught would be very naive. 

I would suppose since I trained for the public for so many years and got a reputation for being able to get horses trained that many other trainers (some good and some not-so-good) cold not train, I probably had more exposure to true mental cases.

Since I started out an 'Idealist' and thought every horse was worth saving, I tried to work with all of them. Many, I would now just ship and never look back. It is called 'live and learn'. It is part of having to figure out what is worth salvaging and what you have when you have actually 'trained' a horse to accept what they really did not want.

Laying a horse down is very effective to 'turn around' many horses. Horses that will hurt themselves in order to hurt people have little trainability. Just like there are criminals born to good families that are anti-social from day one with behavior that inevitably lands them in prison for their entire lives, there are a few horses that are completely anti-social with no one ever treating them badly and having no reasons at all --- except they are anti-social. 

There are horses that 'wake up in a new world every day' that have very little trainability. When you have a horse that you work with and work and work and work to get something established and every day, it is like you never worked on it before, it is like the horse stayed up all night to figure out a way not to do it. This is what so many trainers ran into with some of the first generation Impressives. 

As horse breeding has gotten so much better, there are so many nice horses being bred with great performance ability that also possess really pleasant 'trainable minds'. With this fact, I have gotten a whole lot more critical of a horse's ability and trainability.

So. yes, I think there a few horses that are completely untrainable and I think there are a lot more of them that are not worth training. I also think it is wise and prudent to 'cut your losses' early, waste less time and money on poor prospects and put that time and resources into horses that 'want' to please and want to be trained.

This is a position that has taken years to reach. It took years to evolve to a position that made more sense. It took years for my own ego to get out of the way and make room for my brain and responsible and reasonable thinking to take over.

*Oh Why! Oh why is youth wasted on the young and wisdom wasted on those that are too old to do anything with it?*


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Of course there are untrainable animals as well as some just not worth it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Not all horses (or any animal for that matter) are created equal. 

There's absolutely no good reason to waste time, effort, or personal safety trying to prove something.

I have a difficult horse. He's rideable, but I don't enjoy it. He's adorable and doesn't have a mean bone in his body, but he's spooky and unpredictable under saddle. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't buy him. He's with me for life and I love him, but he's a frustrating animal to deal with at the best of times.


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## angelY (Sep 9, 2012)

boots said:


> Oh, I think any horse will learn something, even if it is how to better avoid work.
> 
> But I have met more than one that was never a trustworthy horse to ride.


haha....horse is our friends we must trust each other


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Cherie, I so completely agree with your post. My crazy horse was one that I refused to give up on. I spent a fortune on the stupid animal, literally everything I had for many many months - because I refused to believe that she couldn't be fixed. I took a second job for a while, so I could throw more money at her. 

I was beyond stupid. I was beyond too proud to admit that I had made a massive mistake. And then it got to the point where I had dumped so much money into the horse that I didn't want to give up. I kept thinking maybe one more professional, maybe someone western rather than English trained, someone who breaks horses - a different vet, xrays of everything etc etc. 

Yes the horse was mentally unstable, but honestly so was I. I was told repeatedly to get rid of the horse, but I knew I couldn't sell her and I had put so much money into her. And of course I couldn't kill my pookins. Even though pookins tried to kill me many times. 

It was a very expensive lesson, but the lesson was finally learned.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

My2Geldings said:


> I don't think there is such a thing as an untrainable horse. I think every horse can be worked with and trained. The question is can you find someone experienced enough to work with the difficult and complicated horse :wink:


I think that Cherie would agree with me - we have both dealt with some very bad horses and some are just plain dangerous and mentally unstable.

No animal is worth a human life.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

My2Geldings said:


> I don't think there is such a thing as an untrainable horse. I think every horse can be worked with and trained. The question is can you find someone experienced enough to work with the difficult and complicated horse :wink:


Another point to this is that to train a horse that is classed as 'untrainable' takes a _lot_ of time. When you are running a business your time is money and very few owners are prepared to pay for that extra time it takes. 

Like Cherie I have had many difficult horses through my hands, the horse I mentioned was the only one I 'failed' with but in all fairness he was never returned once he lamed himself.
In many ways I am sorry he didn't in more ways it was a relief.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

There are in horses, some that are untrainable, in that they will never do what they are bred to do, as in the case of TB mares that I know of. Bred to race, out of Tri Jet, which name should strike terror into any who are familiar with the line, the mares were very difficult to deal with many times. Backed through the starting gates, sat down in them, veered off the track into the railing. Many of those hit the ground meaner than a snake too, and wasn't lack of handling, or wrong handling either. Just had a screw loose.

Many of the Zan's Parr Bar horses could be tough, trainable but not dependable many times.

The old Bourbon King bloodlines in Saddlebreds was a tough line.

And in the TWH's you had the Mack's K Handshaker, who was such a mean stallion, they had to hotwire his stall reportedly to keep him in.

Some horses, like people come here with the wrong mindset, and there are some who have fought to the death rather than be broken to ride too. Might have been avoided with different handling, might not have made any difference either way.

I've seen horses that never were really broke for anything, and not for lack of trying, just something in them.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

In the situations where I have dealt with a untrainable horse(only a couple come to mind) I wouldn't want to ride the SOB anyhow- even if he got "trained". If I can't trust him, I certianly don't want to be way too many miles away from the barn when things go wrong. And knowing what I know about him he certianly isn't going to be a "pleasure" to ride or very sellable.


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