# Sorrel colour?



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm not sure if there is already a thread on this. Exactly how much white hair has to be spread through a chestnut coat for them to be sorrel? I know it doesn't count if its just the odd hair. My horse is a chestnut and he is registered chestnut. But he has evenly spread white hairs throughout his coat on his belly then they fade out over his rump and up his neck. I've only seen one sorrel coloured horse but I didn't pay much attention to his coat because I was so excited to be near a reining champion. Anyway so how much of the coat has to be white? Thanks


----------



## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

Sorrel and a chestnut are the same color, just different names (I've heard sorrel mostly from people who ride western). What you are talking about is a red roan, which is chestnut with white hair spread throughout the coat. By the looks of it, your horse is definitely a chestnut/sorrel. My horse is an example of a red roan.


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

oh I feel silly now I have been told that sorrel and the basic chestnut are two different things


----------



## drafteventer (Jul 6, 2009)

Naw don't feel silly!
But yep, from what I've always been told, sorrel and chestnut are the exact same thing.


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

They are indeed one and the same. Here in Australia, it is very very rare to hear the term "sorrel". It seems to be more heavily used in other places where western is more dominant.


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

Does your horse have palamino in his bloodlines? If the white hairs are kind of random but consistent, the palamino may be showing through. Our mare has it in hers and has kind of stray white hairs throughout her coat. She's registered as a sorrel.


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

from what I know there are only bays and chestnuts unless its really far back but I'll have a look now I'm interested


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Just had a look from the ones that did have written what colour they were. Everything was bay or chestnut bar two that were grey-chestnut apparently. I went back about 4 generations on both sides.


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

^^^^ Would that perhaps mean some sort of roaning or a horse that didn't completely grey out?


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Usandpets - Palomino can't "show through" a chestnut coat. It is something completely different to white hairs in a coat.

Apache, your boy sounds like a chestnut with a touch of white hair in his coat lol. It is perfectly normal for some horses to have a small amount, without it actually changing what colour they are. If you are talking about the horse "Apache" in your horse photos, he is definitely chestnut  And pretty gorgeous


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh and in terms of grey-chestnut or bay-chestnut etc, it is a way of telling what colour the grey is covering. So the "grey-chestnut" in your horse's pedigree was born chestnut, and went grey.


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Thanks Chiilaa you explained a lot for me. I don't know much about colours other then the basics so I wasn't sure about the grey-chestnut without a picture. I love my boys colour even though I'm not a big fan of chestnuts. I had figured he was chestnut and you can only see the white hairs if you're standing close to him.


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Another note about sorrel: It's a colour that's only recognized by the AQHA and the APHA, so that's why it's usually only a Western term. Any other breed it would be called chestnut.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, depending on where you are and what discipline you ride usually dictates what term you use. I always used 'sorrel' to describe your typical red horse that ranges from orangey to bright red, then I would use chestnut to describe a horse that was the color of blood or darker.

Either way, white hairs means that he has some gene that is causing roaning.


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

The white could be rabicano too. Rabicano usually centers itself on the barrel of the horse. Do you have a picture?


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

nothing close up would the picture have to be close up to body I only have pictures like whats already have in my barn. I could get a close up one?


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

No, a full body picture would be more ideal. I'll go look in your barn.

ETA: I looked. He's just a chestnut. A lot of chestnuts have random white hairs mixed in. If I remember correctly, the roan gene does not exist in Thoroughbreds. Rabicano does, but he doesn't have enough for me to want to call him that. I think tinyliny mentioned in another thread that sabino causes the white chin. Sabino also causes some "roaning", it so that could be causing his white hairs.


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah he is chestnut. The white hairs he has are nothing like a roan. I just thought there were a lot more then the odd few but you also can't really see them unless your close to him.


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

It's just part of the chestnut colour. Almost all of the sorrel/chestnut horses I know have coats like that.


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

ok the few I've up close didn't have it


----------



## kywalkinghorse2010 (Dec 9, 2010)

Poseidon said:


> Another note about sorrel: It's a colour that's only recognized by the AQHA and the APHA, so that's why it's usually only a Western term. Any other breed it would be called chestnut.


Actually, it's recognized by the TWHBEA as well. We had a mare that was registered as a sorrel and one that was registered as chestnut and the difference between them was the shades of red and one was more of a coppery hue than the other one.


----------



## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

I've heard chestnut horses with flaxen manes and tails called sorrel, but they are genetically the same as far as anyone has found. So I just call them all chestnut, but a lot of people like to be REALLY specific about their horse's color, whether for breeding reasons or just because.
For example, this would be sorrel:








And this chestnut:


----------



## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

Here's another version I found








I guess it's red-hued vs. more brown-hued? I guess I don't know; it's so confusing!


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

sixlets said:


> Here's another version I found
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Interesting so according to that the redder they are they're more sorrel and the browner they are they're more chestnut.
Some of this stuff can get so confusing lol


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL, it only really gets confusing when you do start trying to differentiate between the shades. What I call chestnut, others might call sorrel and vice versa. Basically, any horse with the genetics 'ee' is going to be some shade of red. Chestnut is a term that is a catch-all for all red horses and anytime you use the term "chestnut", the other person will know that you are talking about a red horse with ee genes. To get more descriptive is where the phrases "flaxen chestnut" or "liver chestnut" come into play .

Horses ranging from this









to this
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Black_Campolina_male_2_years.JPG
(sorry for the link but the pic is _huge_ when I copy it).

are all included in the generic term "chestnut" whereas "sorrel" wouldn't necessarily fit the second horse.


----------



## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I just have to say I love liver chestnuts. I used to know this little pony when he was a foal bright red but I saw a picture of him awhile ago (he'd be about 4/5 now) and he was a gorgeous deep liver chestnut.


----------



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Me too, we used to have a stud that was a deep liver chestnut, even darker than the one in the link I posted. The only way you could tell he wasn't black is by the faint copper sheen he had in _bright_ sunlight. I wish I could have gotten at least one foal out of him, he was stunning.


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Flaxen sorrels/chestnuts are have the flaxen modifier that only affects sorrels/chestnuts. Calling a flaxen chestnut a sorrel would be wrong if the "flaxen" was left out. It'd be like calling a silver bay just a bay. 

What causes the differences in shade is unknown though. Same with any other horse colour, as in some buckskins are deep gold while others are buttermilk and bays come in a range of shades too.


----------

