# Cheep yet fire "proof" fencing?



## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

my fiance and i plan on buying land up in northern az. im looking at 40-60 acres and it will all need to be fenced (to keep stupid people and ranchers cows off the property. We plan on having a track/fire brake about 3 lanes wide on the fence line. it can be used as a road on the property and a place to work the horses as well as a fire brake. The issue is the fencing. wood fencing is cheep but i dont want something that can potentially bring a fire further in/closer to my property. also wood fencing is a pain to maintain and easy to brake. wire fencing is easily cut and 4 wheelers/ stupid kids could get though the fence and onto the property. (and potentially let our animals out). what would you guys suggest?


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

Barb wire and wood or metal posts. IMO that would be the cheapest and work for your fire break.

Wood posts wont burn easily unless there is a lot of vegetation to burn on the ground


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I second the wooden posts.

I will also suggest using something like ram or centaur fencing, though these are not cheap. You could go less expensive and use poly rope, which is relatively cheap compared to other types of poly fencing. Also most types of poly rope can be electrified.

I would not do barbed wire, seen too many bad accidents from it being used and just no thank you. 

Also you could do horse wire fencing (cheaper than V-Mesh) it's still safe and can be relatively cheap.

Being cost is an issue pipe metal is definitely out of the running due to the cost, but it would fit the bill perfectly for you. Maybe you can look into getting some second hand or even DIYing it and making your own if you are handy.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Its not fencing to keep horses in aso much as keeping stupid 4 wheelers out. They cut fences all the time. Dont want to deal with that.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

What is there that they cannot cut? I like my high tensile mesh fencing, t-posts and a hot wire on top. You can get alarms that indicate a break in the electricity, so you could probably get out there before they got the 20 other wires cut......


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Have you considered 3 strands of electric? Top and bottom are hot, middle is neutral. Electric, on a straight flat run can have a post every 50' instead of 8-10 like barbed wire. The swaying wire keeps animals farther away. Be sure to post your land.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Would they even cut through no climb woven wire?

Non-Climb Horse Fence, 60 in. x 200 ft. - For Life Out Here

You really need to use wood for your corner posts for strength but could use metal t-posts for the line posts.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

KigerQueen said:


> Its not fencing to keep horses in aso much as keeping stupid 4 wheelers out. They cut fences all the time. Dont want to deal with that.


I think this is appalling, do people really think it is ok to do this!!?

you could put a ditch 3ft deep x 3ft wide around outside of fence. And/or a hawthorn hedge.

:sad:


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

It gets up to 120F (48c) here in az so no hedges lol. though a nice ocotillo wall would be nice XD! ditch wont stop them. if my truck can get through it most 4x4 can. I think one 3ft high pipe railing would work. our horses won't go over it. if i decide to let them wonder that far i could put hot wire up. dont want horses on the fenceline though (there are some messed up and stupid people out there). by cheep im thinking not the most expensive option out there lol! lets nup put up 5ft 6 lined steel piping kind of thing. or rock wall, that would be ALOT of rock.


out here we go 4 wheeling all the time and are ticked off when we see a fence cut by people making their own trails. and if the landowner dose not catch it and stop them it can become a public trail they they now CANT close off (really stupid if you ask me). So DH is VERY particular about fencing the ENTIRE property we get.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Although a lot of property to fence....
I would put up some kind of woven wire like livestock fencing then add hot wire...and I mean *HOT* a few strands inside the livestock.
Posts... means wood as they are strongest against a 4-wheeler.
I've seen those "t-posts" and you can keep them if you think that is going to stop a atv from gaining entry to your property.
Only reason they remain standing with horses is because you do "*hot*" or they would push them over.... at least the stuff I've seen in quality.
Cattle respect barbed wire and *HOT*...otherwise no.
_Actually, many cattle *don't *respect barbed wire either._ 
Can't tell you how many times I've seen the head pushed through the strands or over the top to get the morsel of grass on the outside.
If you do barbed....5 or 6 strands is what I see the better maintained ranches by me do to keep the heads in and from going over..._and wood posts._
_Oh...those posts need 8' in length not what most do of shorter length for real strong not pushed over resistance by those atv's.
_
:runninghorse2:..
_jmo.._


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

If it's for keeping four wheelers out, I would dig a ditch about 3 or 4ft wide and 4ft deep. Nothing can drive through it if it's deep and narrow enough. Run your fence along the property side of the ditch. You can drive your truck on the inside of the property if fences need to be fixed. With a ditch, animals would be hesitant to cross as well if your fence does get a break in it. I can't stand people who have no respect for other peoples property. It would also discourage any ideas of horse theft because they would have a heck of a time getting horses to come over a ditch like that.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

KigerQueen said:


> out here we go 4 wheeling all the time and are ticked off when we see a fence cut by people making their own trails. and if the landowner dose not catch it and stop them it can become a public trail they they now CANT close off (really stupid if you ask me). So DH is VERY particular about fencing the ENTIRE property we get.


Wow! Sounds like people have a nice incentive to cut fences


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Kiger...
I keep thinking about your comment regarding the fire break.
I know homes out west on the open range have fire breaks around their homes... think it is 100' wide from the farthest building edge. _ No plants, no shrubs, no grass surround the house, just dirt. _
I had a friend who lived in "wild fire" territory. I was never to to the house but remember him making a comment when he was visiting my families home that we had shrubs, trees and grass. He was envious...

Think about the height of flames during wildfires... that occurs with grass fires too.
They also create their own wind currents and can jump around.
I have seen "wildfires" jump a 8+ lane wide highway and then burn the other side. Add in the shoulders and the center median.... that is a lot of land to lose for a "break".
A good idea for the house but I might be more inclined to build a barren ditch, a culvert, pond or something like that in several areas on the property to give the animals a place to run. Instinctively they know where that may be if shown once I have heard. :shrug:...

More things to think about...
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo.._


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Kiger, if you're coming up north, it doesn't get nearly as hot, so you could have hedges. I just wouldn't want to think about maintaining that much cultivated hedge.

Maybe we're just lucky up here, but pretty much anyone with any amount of land runs barbed wire with no issues. I've only seen one horse with an injury from barbed wire and it would have happened on any type of wire fence cuz he was trying to get to my grandma's plum tree and got his hoof tangled in the wire. 

I've also never heard of people's fencing getting cut so four-wheelers could run through their land. Even up by Flagstaff it's a rarity, from what I know. It's too hard to navigate off the established trails for most people to bother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

im looking at heber area and there are a lot of cows. in this area a lot of fences get cut so that was Fiance's worry. as for wire fencing im iffy as i dont like horses near wire fencing (our horses are dumb sometimes and hurt themselves on flat ground) but they will be within other fencing too.

We wont have any trees near the house and we will keep all plant life by the house to a min for that very reason. the fire brake will not stop a huge fire but it might help stop or slow down a small one. but it will also be nice to have clear flat area to get around the property and work the horses on. but if there is a small brush fire i dont want a wooden fence to kinda help it alone (or a hedge as that would be a pain to work on).

Im wanting to somewhat homestead so there will be some plants but most will be hydroponics in shipping containers and possibly a small orchard.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

The desert might as well be a different planet from up north. Trust me. I've lived up by Prescott my whole life and know tons of people who live in the White Mountains. Fence cutting is a rarity because, like I said, it's too difficult to navigate off the established paths and forest roads.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I will say this, if you wind up running electric, make sure you get the biggest, strongest charger you can afford and make sure it's fully charged at all times. With that many acres you don't want to lose your charge on the most remote piece of property because a weed touched the wire. -_- 

You could run v-mesh or horse safe fencing as it can deter people from cutting it as it takes a ton of cuts to get through. That combined with a ditch as suggested would probably be the best. 
But from what Drafty says that might not be an issue where you'll be moving to. So you may not need the ditch at all. And if you do wind up with issues you could always rent a backhoe and dig the trench yourself for far less than someone else would charge you to do it and soo much faster than by hand.
I worked on two septic field replacements years ago and one was done by hand because the yard was too small for heavy equipment of any size, it took a week to get it all done. The next one was on 5 acres and took an afternoon to do with a rented backhoe and it was an overall bigger job...my back thanked me for that.

Another thing I forgot to mention was for the most secure posts have them driven into the ground, the cost is a bit more but they won't lean and they likely won't work their way out of the ground anytime soon either.


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## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

Ok, honest question here.. What would happen if you left a laneway around the perimeter of your property, and put your fencing just inside that? You could still flag /mark your actual property line to avoid legal conflict, while still posting private no trespassing. 
So the ATVs would more than likely 'trespass' on that laneway, but perhaps be less inclined to damage fencing?


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

The liability from having such a ditch around ones property wouldn't be good.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Skipsfirstspike said:


> Ok, honest question here.. What would happen if you left a laneway around the perimeter of your property, and put your fencing just inside that? You could still flag /mark your actual property line to avoid legal conflict, while still posting private no trespassing.
> So the ATVs would more than likely 'trespass' on that laneway, but perhaps be less inclined to damage fencing?


While not a bad idea, Skip, I can see that falling apart fast the first time one of the ATVers is hurt on that stretch of land and comes to the OP looking for compensation.

We get ATVers (we usually call them quads) cutting fence around here on occasion -- that tends to happen on the back roads or places far from the farm yards so there's less chance of being seen (I assume). As usual, its the bad ones that ruin it for everyone else so most farmers have nothing good to say about quads. Nonetheless, despite having trespassing laws, it seems the best way to keep them off your property is with a fence.

If you think there is going to be a problem, I like the idea of putting up multi pane fencing as mentioned (at least in the areas you can't monitor from the yard) as it will discourage all but the OCD cutters from opening up an entrance because of the extra work required.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

ChitChatChet said:


> The liability from having such a ditch around ones property wouldn't be good.


 I suspect you're right with that one.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

the area in heber we are looking at is juniper. so still desert looking. its a lot like where i used to live in colorado. high scrubland. this is a pic from one of the properties.












Its got a lot more green than we do down here and is nice and cool so it will be nicer than az. but its not pine forest (thats around town and where the wild horses are). as much as i love forest the fire danger is enough to keep me out of it.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

That's similar to where I live. I've never heard of fences getting cut out here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Beautiful land -- I'd enjoy riding there. Looks like a challenge to fence though with those big rocks (I'm thinking if there's rocks on the surface then there's rocks below as well).


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

yeah thats another issue. we can start with wire fence and go from there if there is any issues.
there are also the ranchers bulls to worry about. the forest serves around there lets a few ranchers graze their cattle and their bulls are almost as big as my dakota! one of those ****ed off would go through my truck... so hopefully they stay off my property. IF they go after my family (includes pets) i will have a nice freezer full of beef though XD!


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

KigerQueen said:


> yeah thats another issue. we can start with wire fence and go from there if there is any issues.
> there are also the ranchers bulls to worry about. the forest serves around there lets a few ranchers graze their cattle and their bulls are almost as big as my dakota! one of those ****ed off would go through my truck... so hopefully they stay off my property. IF they go after my family (includes pets) i will have a nice freezer full of beef though XD!


If you dont keep a cow I doubt very much the bull will come through a fence onto your place.

Now, if you have a cow.... the bull will come visiting and not much will stop it.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

ChitChatChet said:


> If you dont keep a cow I doubt very much the bull will come through a fence onto your place.
> 
> Now, if you have a cow.... the bull will come visiting and not much will stop it.


That was my thought, as well.

We have ranchers out here who run bulls with their herds all the time. Three or four strands of barbed wire keep them fully contained at all times. You probably won't even see the herds that often if they're roaming a lot of acreage.


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## woodsmenjoe (Dec 29, 2012)

I agree with greentree but at any rate it's going to cost you a small fortune I would fence in small sections and do random patrols I want you do not have fenced
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i plan on having cows is the issue XD! i want 2 or 3. one to milk and breed every year and i will slaughter the previous years calf. there dont have to buy beef for a year.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

Well, you could section off a parcel of land strictly for the cows and do it with barbed wire and electric and have the horse areas done safely in something that will contain them but not harm them. 

A good type of fence (though not fireproof) is this type if the ground is too rocky to drive posts: 

It keeps horses and cows in and bulls out. The forest services use them to contain Mustangs and cattle rarely go through them from what I here. But again, not fireproof, unless you could pony up the money to use rubber wood.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I would go with smooth wire fencing and T-posts, 4" metal corner posts set in concrete, post no trespassing signs, and put up game cameras. If someone cuts your fence, call the cops and charge them with trespassing and destruction of property.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I like that idea. im also looking at getting a couple of these so i pitty the fool (ha)who thinks my property would be a fun place to be.










Im hearing its not as bad with fence cutters up north so that makes me feel better. BUT on the off chance there are they wont do it again XD!


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

I would start with a single fence 60 acres isn't THAT huge of a task to run a regular 2-3 strand high tensile electric fence, and if it should happen to become a problem of people cutting the fence do a double fence. Interior with the standard fencer, and get one of the very hot fencers for the outer perimeter, make sure when they cut your wires unless they are using a really good pair of cutters they will be in for a treat.

I would also go routes of if they develop a trail some boards with nails that you can remove when horses are around.... but that's just my hating trespassers


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

KigerQueen said:


> I like that idea. im also looking at getting a couple of these so i pitty the fool (ha)who thinks my property would be a fun place to be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I love Caucasian Mountain dogs, just be warned, get the short haired variety as the long haired ones don't so well with heat, and being you're in AZ they likely wouldn't do well in the summer. Anatolians are also awesome LGDs and do well in warm weather. They use them to guard livestock from Cheetahs in Africa.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Horseychick, where Kiger wants to move is cooler than what most people think of when they think Arizona. :lol: Talking like 20 degrees cooler in the summer. It even snows there. :shock: Probably still not cool enough for a Caucasian Mountain dog, but still cooler.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

there is one that comes into the salon where i work. i would get the shorter coated variety. it would be more of a guard dog while my fiance is away driving and im home alone. i would have Livestock dogs as well but the Caucasian shepherds are for my protection . I will definitely start out with wire fencing then. i might slowly be able to turn it into pipe fencing but that might take a cuple of years and i dont plan on moving again once i get enough land.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Horseychick, where Kiger wants to move is cooler than what most people think of when they think Arizona. :lol: Talking like 20 degrees cooler in the summer. It even snows there. :shock: Probably still not cool enough for a Caucasian Mountain dog, but still cooler.


 Yup, definitely still not cool enough, and the long hairs will pick up brambles and all kinds of other things that have to be stripped out.


Kiger I love CSD's, they are awesome, just make sure to go through a reputable breeder. I've seen some popping up that are breeding for sheer size and not temperament, not a good combination on a dog as aggressive as a CSD.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

oh temperament is the most important thing for me. i will NOT have a dog that i can trust fully living in my house. if im worried about it biting me it has to go. wont put up with that. my wolf dogs taught me alot about how to gain a dogs respect and a good partnership. i see daily dangerous dogs and owners who are afraid to train their dogs. and i have met the teeth of some of those dogs. Drives me nuts!


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

It's amazing how many poorly trained dogs you'll see when you're a groomer or vet assistant. I've never once owned a dog that gave me the feeling it would bite me and I've had so many breeds and types of dog it's crazy. 
The worst behaved dog I've met was my aunts old black Poodle, he wasn't right in the head. He bit several people and got me three different times for no reason, he's lucky he got away with his head still attached to his body the last time. But it all came down to my aunt's ineffective training.

Of course this also brings up the topic of making sure the fence will keep your dogs in, LOL. I had a working GSD that could clear a six foot fence without trying, and she'd run right through a wire fence if she thought she had to protect somebody. (Her name was Stella...that way when I called her back I could yell 'STELLLLAAA!' XD) She was hard to keep contained, she was leash only, no free turnout as she was protective over any kid she came across and would defend them, whether they were in her yard or not. -_-
She is the only dog I had trouble containing, but I never once feared she'd bite anyone or anything either, not that a stranger would know that of course.


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## zandstrafarms (Feb 14, 2015)

If you want to split costs, do a combo of 3 wire fencing (or ramm fencing makes 5in electric plastic "tape", if you do top line and a second line regular hotcote it would be tough to cut through), and rotate that with the v wire horse fencing. 

While a trench is a cool idea, it would take FOREVER to dig. Husband used tractor backhoe to dig 5 ft deep water line trench, 500 feet. Took a week, total 18 man hours. That's with a 24 in bucket too.

Go to amazon and look for fake security cameras. Combine those with no trespassing signs, video surviance. Cheaper than game cams. People steal game cams anyway, and at $100+ each that's a big loss. 

We have 87 acres in Michigan and all our neighbors treat it as their hunting grounds. They cut up all the fence lines too. We are in progress of putting up those fake security cameras, along with signs saying video surviance. 
If you use your horses to patrol fence line a few times a week you can catch people early on.


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

KigerQueen said:


> I like that idea. im also looking at getting a couple of these so i pitty the fool (ha)who thinks my property would be a fun place to be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of those dogs in Arizona?!! Yikes with all the poky things AZ had got getting stuck in the dogs hair seems rather miserable.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

they have a shorter coated variety. and its not hard to take a 1inch guard comb over one in the summer. and in heber its ALOT cooler, might get up to the mid 90s in the summer. here in the valley where its well over 105 most days in the summer alot of people have long haired dogs (chows, newfoundlands, st bernards, bernese mountain dogs, aussies, etc) and they survives. we had a wolf pyrenees mix that spend 10 years of his life mostly outdoors and he had at least 4inch or hair.

as for getting things stuck in the hair heber is also not full of cactus. as a matter of fact i dont think there are cactus that far north. never saw a single one (that was not potted) the numerous times we visited and explored the surrounding areas. Again i own clippers if its an issue lol!


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## Alhefner (Nov 11, 2015)

Enjoyed reading through this thread! It speaks directly to my own needs. I've got 80 acres of high desert scrub/grass that's 20 miles from Winnemucca NV. I'll have to fence it mostly to keep the open range cattle out so, I'll be going with 3 wire for the perimeter. Not too worried about the ATV crowd since I haven't seen any sign of them out there yet.

As for "horse fencing", I'll be starting off with small areas with sheds for each horse. Sort of largish paddocks with 2"X8" boards to 6' on wood posts. The larger pasture/turnout areas I'll either make pipe fencing myself or use no-climb with hot wire on top.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My St B stood 36" at the shoulder. No one messed with him. He was an excellent guard dog yet as gentle as a lamb with children.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

KigerQueen said:


> as for getting things stuck in the hair heber is also not full of cactus. as a matter of fact i dont think there are cactus that far north. never saw a single one (that was not potted) the numerous times we visited and explored the surrounding areas. Again i own clippers if its an issue lol!


I live about 15 miles down the road from the Heber area and we definitely have cactus. Mainly prickly pear. Also some stag-horn looking stuff, although it's not very common. And agave (but that wouldn't get in a dog's coat). But we do have prickly pear. We get it in our shoes on our own property. Here are some photos I took earlier this summer, because the blooms were so pretty.

I don't know about private property, but people DO cut the fences out on the National Forest here and there. But it's usually the trashed/ half down fences that get cut, not ones in good repair. I can't count the number of times I've accidentally ridden through loose barbed wire. Luckily my current horses don't panic when they get in wire. I would make sure your fenceline (whatever kind you choose) is marked with Private Property/No Tresspassing signs. Because I think a lot of time people just assume they are still on the forest and don't realize they have crossed onto private property. 

And yeah, sometimes we have ranchers cows wandering in the neighborhood too. Not as much as they used to, but sometimes people still leave gates open and cows wander in. But the cows seem to be seasonal, they aren't out there grazing year round. We only seem to see them in the spring when they are calving.

You know what the best part of living up here is? Besides the weather of course. The elk! I see elk on almost every ride. And I call the bull elk (on horseback) during the rut. They are awesome. But all fall I am wearing bright orange too because of the hunters. :x


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

PS. The wealthier horse people use pipe fencing. Not cheap. But most everyone else uses smooth or barbed wire with t-posts.

I like your idea of using 1 rail of pipe. 

We don't even have our property fenced. I have pipe corral panel "pens" for the horses and a round pen but no turn-out to speak of. :neutral:


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I would use T post and mesh fencing. Cattle, they will climb through and over any type of fence , I have watched the longhorns across the road from me, climb through the barbed wires. You can use metal post for the corners and one in the middle of a long run . 
cheapest is barbed wire . I would not dig a trench, you would be liable if someone got hurt in it, there is a natural gully behind my pasture and the quads etc will run up the gully .
there are Many people out there that are not respectful of others property. The rudest and mos disrespectful people i have had to run off from my fence lines etc have been teens and in the men and women in their 20's.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

the area has LOTS of cows so i would like to keep my grazing strictly for my animals lol! Cant use wood fencing as out paint ate through a rail tie in less than 2 days (idk why he decided THAT particular tie needed to be eaten but apparently it did). Soo no wood fencing lol! I do NOt want to go outside and see our paint has let himself out and is working on freeing his buddy. And hotwire with wood wont work as odie seams to gave figured out hot wire. he is they type of horse that requires fort knox level of penning. Rocket and negra are content to stay where they are fed. The BLM mustang brakes metal panels so he will be a BLAST to contain -_-' But yes horse fencing will be separate from perimeter fencing. I would like to have a cuple of cows and other live stock as well.


The land we are eyeballing is backed up against the national forest and the fencing is less than stellar. and There will be no trespassing signs. My fiance and i are like the old man who wants people off their lawn. call us grumpy but unless you are having an emergency or invited we want you gone. 

As for the cactus (i HATE cactus) if the dog gets full of prickers i can shave it down until it snows.


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