# Overweight horses the norm now?



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it seems that everywhere I go, I see so many fat horses. Do you think that this is so? do you think that people can no longer recognize obesity in horses , since it seems to be viewed as a horse in good health?

feel free to post photos of horses (your own, or where you have permission, or from stock photos from internet) that exemplify either a FAT horse, or a GOOD WEIGHT horse, or even underweight. and explain what to look for to know if your horse needs to lose some groceries.


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Absolutely! I know a dear friend of mine keeps hers fat because she is overly caring and has the motto of a little too fat is better than a little too thin. I am guilty of having 1 too fat, he has been here a year and has lost near 100 lbs at "fat camp" but he's still round. Though surprisingly I can feel ribs now!









Chief, aka tub'o'lard, aka fatty fatty 2x4

Though I can feel his ribs, he has fat over the head of his tail, in his armpits and not a lot of definition of a flank. Surprisingly the vet doesn't think he is _too_ fat! Due to all the weight he had before coming here, he also has a big crest.


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## Kristyjog (Nov 11, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

My vet described my mare as "in show" condition, which means a little extra meat on her but not so much that it would cause health concerns. So she shouldn't gain anymore and it wouldn't hurt her to loose a few pounds either. I guess she would be graded a six on the body condition scale.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Good thread Tiny! 

Let's see, I know I like to see my horses slightly heavier than some, but I think both obese AND too skinny are ugly. I would rather err on the side of heavy, but not so heavy the horse looks like he will founder at any minute.

What do I look for? Well, I have an ex-broodmare with a large belly, so I will say belly is NOT a good indicator of weight. I personally look for topline, and how much the spine protrudes (or doesn't). If a horse has a spine about level with the muscles on either side, they are probably about right. If the spine is protruding above the muscles, the horse is underweight. If they have a gully that water can sit it, they are getting pretty fat. Not scientific, and not the actual body-condition-score method, but that's my personal indicator. :lol:

I think ribs are okay on a fit athlete, like a race horse. But if a horse has been doing "nothing" and his ribs are showing, the horse is likely too thin.

I see a lot of folks on here justify thin horses because obesity is unhealthy. True. But emaciated with no muscle looks sickly and unhealthy too!

Okay, here is an example of my own horse. In the first picture, he is a 2 yr old, before he went out for training. He's still butt-high. And his muscle tone is soft and he is overweight.

Second picture is after he came back from the trainer. He's lost a lot of weight and probably many of you would say he looks perfect. But his spine is just starting to protrude, his hips look a little sunk in and if he wasn't getting a winter coat, I bet his ribs would just be starting to show. Just a tad thin for my taste.

Third picture is him as a 4 yr old and I've been riding him a lot. I think he looks just perfect. He's not obese but he's not thin either. That's about right in my opinion.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Now to make myself look bad, lol, but here is my late BLM Mustang. He was always on the "fat" side. The horse lived on air, I swear! He got two flakes of alfalfa a day, nothing extra other than a handful of senior feed as a treat, and no grass. 

This is about as fat as I would like a horse to get. Much more than this and I think it is a health risk. But still, I would personally much rather have this than a thin horse. I realize other opinions will differ.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Yes I have one girl on my facebook who while she works magic on rescues, her personal horses are over weight. She likes them like that but it drives me nuts. I am in the process of adding just a bit of weight to king to help give him something to work into muscle as we are starting training soon but i don't mind his current weight. The grey got fat off air he literally got a single flake morning and night and a cup of grain at night this was him in good shape haha. It is sad to see horses on either end of the spectrum.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

ideal and fit:


good weight, pasture condition, muscle tone is great, ribs visible.:


fat, but just a little. The first one is a 23 year old ottb. Here we do like them to be a little fat going into winter, because our weather is so severe.:


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

I know BCS cannot be adequately assessed from photos alone, but I thought this was a VERY good basic "101" type guide:


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Ha, I am definitely in the "blind to chub" category. Of course, I can still recognize a really fat horse and I do my best to avoid letting my horses get ridiculously fat...but, imo, I'm pretty blind to the mid-stages of fatness.

I think half of that though, or at least my current "problem" is that Lacey carried her weight verrrry differently than my current horse, Fabio, does.
She got cresty with big ol' fat pads on her back, basically typical IR-type chub placement. Her back was very flat and wide conformationally so she always had a little divot in the middle of her back - every rib would be sticking out if she didn't have a divot [one winter, before she came home, she ended up getting way too skinny and I "got" to see that^ in action...  ].
Her ribs were always the first thing to start really protruding, she could look ribby and still look "fat."

This is Lacey in "skinny" summer condition - grazing muzzle during the day, everyday, no hay - just pasture, and a very light rib covering:




On the other hand, Fabio is built very differently. Currently I can't even FIND his ribs no matter how hard I press. I think I found them the other day, but I'm not too sure. Does he even have ribs to begin with? I really don't know.
He's definitely in the midst of a "body remodel" and he's very quickly losing weight [12 mile rides every other day over intense terrain - the weight is fallling off] but he's still technically fat.

HOWEVER. If you look at this picture of Fabio from a day or two ago and compare it to the one of Lacey, they look like they're in very similar condition [to me, at least]. But Lacey was much closer to "trim" in her picture than Fabio is in his.




The funniest thing is that Fabio's spine is clearly the tallest part of his back, while Lacey's so is not...yet Lacey is more muscular and in, we can assume, better shape than Fabio is.


I don't know, this is why I have a hard time rating my chubbies. I can see it immediately in most horses..maybe I just have a blind spot for Arabians. Actually that's probably 100% true. :lol:


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

karliejaye said:


> I know BCS cannot be adequately assessed from photos alone, but I thought this was a VERY good basic "101" type guide:


I like that it shows pictures as a reference. I guess I have to reclass my mare from a 6 to a 5.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Mine are all verging on the side of being chubby despite being worked most days, restricted grazing, nibblenets and only a really small low sugar/low starch feed that's more to be sure they get their minerals and vitamins than anything else


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Agree, horses backs are built so different you can't really judge weight by the shape of the back. Probably MOST of the horses I know would be extremely obese if their backs were perfectly flat. Using the above BCS chart is the way to go. Look at the whole horse. Otherwise conformation will get in the way.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

why do people want them on the slightly fat side?

In times past, like a hundred or more years ago, was it normal for hroses to be as chubby as they are now? are we killing them with kindness?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Tiny, you also have to consider that horses 100+ years ago were still being used as work horses....and they didn't have access to the same medical care (mainly deworming) that we have now. Horses back then were very rangey looking animals, all joints and bones and feet with a bit of meat covering it.


That said, yes, the majority of horses these days are severely overweight. Many of mine are overweight as well, but I'm not blind to it. I like them to have a bit of extra coming into winter and they usually get it worked off in the spring.

You also have to consider the breed of the horse when judging "fat" vs "ideal" vs "thin".

No matter how fit or in shape he is, this horse (picture taken last summer when he actually _was _fit due to being in consistent work)









Will never have the same appearance as this horse (she was "racing fit" at the time, being loped approximately 5 miles daily) without being severely _under_weight.


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## tmhmisty (Jun 8, 2014)

I could post pictures of all different body types of fat! I am not blind to it but panic every winter if they start to lose any weight and most of the time they can end up coming out of winter fatter then they went in. 

We do have nasty weather (-40 is pretty common) for long stretches and I usually load up on food to trying to help them out(round bales 24/7--usually 1 round bale for every 2 horses in pasture and beet pulp) 

I know I must do better though!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I know that different body type will look different and that some have a more rounded appearance, as per their breed norms.

But, I just think most of us have no real perspective on what is really a good weight for a horse. and most of us do not work ours anywhere near as much as you do.

here, they get even fatter in winter! they eat all day and are ridden less. oh, they might get a bit thin in the depths of winter. or, "thinnner", not thin. but come the spring grass, they bloat up.

anyway, I was just curious if most folks think it's normal to look so plump.


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## Avishay (Jun 14, 2014)

Overweight horses are absolutely an epidemic in my area. 

I manage a tack & feed store, and there are 6 major stables within a 3 mile radius of our store that have 200-450 horses at EACH barn at any given time. Plus there are numerous private barns and residences with horses. I get asked A LOT of feed questions every day at work. But I can say without reservation that only about 15-20% of people I talk to actually KNOW why they feed what they feed in the quantities they do, and that's a fairly generous estimate. I DAILY get people calling in to order feed, and when I ask them what they want, they say, "I don't remember what I get. Can you look it up for me? I think it comes in a [insert color] bag."

I think the problem boils down to: 
1. many horses here live 23/7 365 in 12x12 box stalls or 12x24 pipe stalls. They get out, get groomed, maybe get lunged and/or turned out, ridden for 45 minutes, groomed, and put back in a tiny box. They're simply not getting that much exercise, and the trainers and owners VASTLY over estimate the intensity of the work the horse is in. 

2. Riders assume that because their horse jumps, or does dressage, or (insert sport here) at a low-to-moderate level, that he's a high-end performance horse - so they LOOK for feeds that say they're designed for "horses in heavy work/performance/training" which is, more often than not, ROCKET FUEL intended for much harder working athletes. - then the same owners come into my store looking for calming supplements *facepalm*. 

3. Most people (trainers included) have NO IDEA how to read a feed bag or accurately measure feed. Horses should be fed by weight, whether it's hay or other forage product, grain or bran, or a commercial feed. They mix and match vague amounts of feed, using the ever ambiguous "scoop" as a unit of measurement. They feed no where near the recommended amount of feed per the instructions on the bag, but don't know that failing to do so means that the horse isn't receiving the nutrition in the "guaranteed analysis" - which means they're paying for expensive poop and the horse isn't getting much out of it. On the other hand, if they WERE to even approach the amount of feed recommended on the bag, the horses would be truly waddling around. 

4. They don't know hay. The barns around here feed hay or cubes 2-3 times a day. The workers typically feed a pony the same amount of hay they feed a big warmblood. The owner pays for hay, they toss it in. Some barns are more generous than others, but typically, smaller horses or those in less work end up hugely over-fed, while elderly, debilitated, or BIG horses aren't getting nearly enough. the small horse owners don't really SEE how much the stable feeds, and though they know pony is a bit tubby, he still NEEDS his few handfuls of senior to put his supplements in, and they vaguely hope that he's getting his extra vitamins from the feed. the owners of the larger horses end up feeding extra hay, beet pulp, rice bran, commercial grains, etc. to keep their big horses round - totally mixing and matching and upsetting the whole dietary balance - and wonder why he's a nutcase.

It's DEFINITELY a problem. But given that most people don't know how to feed themselves a healthy diet with the right kinds of foods in the right amounts for their own bodies, I can hardly blame them. I can only try to help make good suggestions when asked.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

If you leave out my old guy, who gets lots of extra feed, and the minis, who are on a dry lot, the rest of mine live mainly on a pasture (grass hay in winter) diet. They have large, hilly pastures, turned out 24/7 and they are still overweight. Limiting their pasture time does not help because they stand around in their dry lot getting absolutely no exercise so they don't lose a single pound. I will say it's mainly a grass belly because after a 2 or 3 days of some hard saddle time they look good. I'm also guilty of absolutely not liking to see any ribs. 

I feel pretty lucky that even though they have more fat on them than they need that not a one is laminitic, IR, or prone to colic. (knock on wood)


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

smrobs said:


> You also have to consider the breed of the horse when judging "fat" vs "ideal" vs "thin".
> 
> No matter how fit or in shape he is, this horse (picture taken last summer when he actually _was _fit due to being in consistent work)


I agree, and the breeding lines, too. Whenever I come across a horse person used to the "TB look", the first question they _always_ ask about our Impressive line mother/daughter Paint mares is "when are they due" ;-) They are both ~1100+ lbs, but are _very_ big barreled and people feel like a cartoon, bowlegged cowboy after riding. 



















If you then switch to riding our "lean" Paint mare, Cinnamon (~950 lbs), you feel like you don't have any horse under you.










They are all out in the same pastures 24x7 that are not "improved", i.e. just natural grasses, not fertilized, etc.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The same is true of dogs and cats. Obesity in humans in the US and in their animals is pretty common. 

Met a woman in the park. She said her GSD (a West German Showline) was sooo thin. Well, ma'm, that is their build. OTOH her Golden Retriever was obese. Turns out to try to put weight on the GSD she was "free feeding" and the Golden was taking advantage of that. 

She was feeding a good dog food (grain free) so I told her to get some canned dog food of the same brand. Cut the Golden's ration by half. Feed both dogs and add an eighth of a can of canned food.. add water and mix. Feed them in different locations they cannot escape from. After 20 minutes if the food is not gone, take it up. 

Amazingly the Golden is losing weight (canned food is lots of water and not much calories) and the GSD is gaining (canned food made the meal interesting so she eats better). 

Horses do not need grain. If you are working them, they need grain concentrates. By working them I mean riding them every day for 2 hours at least. If they have high metabolism they need concentrates. Good grass hay cut early goes a long way towards healthy weight and healthy digestion in horses.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> why do people want them on the slightly fat side?
> 
> In times past, like a hundred or more years ago, was it normal for hroses to be as chubby as they are now? are we killing them with kindness?


Just want to chime in that there are a few of us who don't kill our horses with kindness, but rather are fortunate (or not) enough to own air ferns. 
*cough* Digby *cough*

I'm kinda a mean mom who feeds first cut hay only to my crew, they have unimproved pasture, and Dig gets a handfull of supplements to round out what the forage is lacking. Dig is probably between 6 and 7, and the donks...well, we all know that hugs and kisses make them gain weight. :wink:


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## OliviaMyee (Jul 31, 2012)

I got my horse and he was an obese thoroughbred with cresty neck and looked like a warmblood, than i was told he needed to lose 100 kilos in a week so i hardly fed him anything he lost so much topline, and became a little thin had a dull coat. Im annoyed that i took that advice because im really lucky my horse didn't get ulcers. 

Now my Tb has slight ribs showing if he bends but id rather that than obese, he has a shiny coat now ! He is sensitive to sugar and can get a cresty neck so i have to feed simple no unnatural grains high in starch. My Tb has access to as much hay as he wants usually a round bale or a bale of hay, he has put weight on with two feeds a day of lucerne/oaten chaff, handful of oats, handful of rice bran and a mineral supp for general health. 

Im to cautious to feed soya meal as protein for my horse as nutritionally it has been proven to not be as healthy as you think. So i have to take the time and take it slowly to put weight on my horse because as soon as the grass gets sugary the big thoroughbred can get a cresty neck and i have to be careful for laminitis.

So my lesson learnt is that if you have a fat horse or a skinny horse losing weight or gaining weight is done slowly, and you still have to feed them !

What i find annoying is that some people think their thoroughbreds are to thin well allot of them are bred to show slight ribs, and personally id rather my horse to be able to actually lift his legs of the ground being a little light, than not being able to lift legs because of being to fat for the riders comfort.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I personally like a rounder look on horse. I think that's from growing up around a bunch of QH built like tanks. 
That being said I really had to adjust what I was feeding a couple years ago when Mona started developing laminitis (weight and age were contributors). I also have 2 air ferns.
You really have to read labels. Some foods claim to be low starch, but then you read what is in them and you are like "how is this low starch".
Plus, I don't think a lot people really consider their horse's body type or that diet needs will change. It seems most folks just feed what their friends feed or what is cheapest. 
Mona used to be on straight alfalfa and grain when she was in daily work (4 to 6 hours of riding) when my sister owned her. She was lean and had no problems. Since she has gotten older and is basically retired (only weekend rides). She is on 2 flakes of bermuda and is still chubby. I've had to adjust Willow's diet recently as well since a friend pointed out "she was getting fat". I guess seeing her everyday, I hadn't noticed. I was like "Really, you think so. Well I did just buy her a bigger cinch" (face to palm).


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

I prefer to keep my horses a healthy weight. I would rather have a horse with a 4.5 body score than a 6. My horses jump and I think it's wrong to jump heavy horses just because it makes you feel good to over feed them.

A lot of people think gypsy is too thin, but in reality you can only slightly see her ribs. She also eats a lot, she just works hard.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

I have Arabians. All are air ferns except the stallion, and that's because he fusses at times. I have lousy pasture, and the hay is TOO good, so they get a little fat over the winter and lose it in the summer, when they are forced to go pick their OWN food. I know, shameful, right? :smile: Grain isn't a biggie here unless they are actually working or in foal. A little beet pulp to carry salt and minerals in the mornings, and a handfull of crimped oats at night. That way they are in for a twice daily lookover even if I'm not using them.


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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

I posted a week or so ago wondering about a diet that would boost my horse's energy without packing on the pounds. In my thread I stated that I was feeding my horse 6 lbs of hay a day in a slow feed haynet and he was still borderline obese but lacked energy. He is worked 3-5 times a week moderately.
I was then informed that I should be extremely worried about him getting ulcers so I needed to get him eating more meals throughout the day. I guess I'm wondering how worried you all get about "starving" your fat horses? What do you do to prevent ulcers with a horse who receives minimal forages? I personally am terrified of my horse becoming morbidly obese and foundering. He gains weight on air. Every time my vet comes out he mentions that I need to be paying attention to his weight. 
Recently, I've started feeding him poorer quality first cut so I've doubled the amount and added another feeding in the middle of the day. I can already see that he is gaining some weight. Right now he is a 6.5 body score.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Mia's ribs are always visible when the sun angle is right. She simply stops eating when she doesn't want any more. We joke that she is watching her figure, but I'd like to see her gain some weight. She also needs more exercise. Most horses here live in a corral, so unridden horses lack muscle. As my lower back slowly heals (5.5 years now, but improving), I hope to take Mia out more and longer.

The two geldings both are OK: Trooper has ribs you can feel but not see, and Cowboy is just a little fat. He's quite stocky to my eyes, but I'm sure he is mostly QH in breeding (BLM mustang), compared to mostly Arabian and purebred Arabian. All 3 eat very little compared to a lot of horses.

I see as many underweight horses here as fat ones. All food has to be imported, bought and fed here. There is no pasture anywhere near me. Since hay went thru the roof and then stayed there, lots of folks seem to be pretty tight on the rations. I can't recall seeing any horses lately that made me think, "That horse is fat!"...but I've seen a number on the thin side.


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## llizzylou42 (Aug 8, 2014)

I personally like to keep my horses between a healthy weight and barely overweight during the year except, in the fall I do like to see them a little fatter. It'd just the way I like to do it. I know we have hard winters and I think the fat. Helps... But that's just me. 



I do think one reason horses are so fat is because people in my area anyway usually would rather have a fat horse than a skinny horse. 
I feel that people look so down upon horses that are skinny but not really fat horses.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I would rather have them slightly thin than slightly fat, especially the babies. 

That said, stallions going into breeding season, mares that are pregnant and all horses around here going into winter, which is long and harsh, should be a smidgen on the fat side.

obese animals are never acceptable to me. I have two dogs, which I regulate very closely so they are at ideal weights. If I'm fat, I suffer the consequences, if they are fat, they do. I could never justify having an obese horse foundering or suffering some other weight related disease because I couldn't be bothered to buy a muzzle, give them one flake less or stick them on a dry lot part of the time.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

BlueSpark said:


> ideal and fit:


See now, in my personal opinion, I would say this horse needs more groceries and is not "ideal". Ribs should be _felt _but not actually seen. IMO


This is my horse Red. He's about 15.2 hands and just over 1,200 pounds. He could afford to lose a little bit of weight, but not much. I much rather him have a few extra pounds because we do to all-day gaming shows and he'll "shrink" quite a bit on those days. 

He gets exercised every day. We usually go 4 miles (at the minimum). He can easily go 7 or 8 miles, trotting or loping most of the way (minus the warm up and cool down).

In pictures, people always tell me he's fat. When you see him in person, you realize that he is just a beefy horse. 











This is my 3-year-old colt. I do wish he'd slim his belly down a wee bit more, but at the same time he is 3 and I'm not going to stress out his legs and joints to give him as much exercise as Red gets. 










They are both on pasture 24/7. If I stalled them or kept them in a pen part of the day, that would probably help them both lose a few pounds, but I feel it is much healthier and more natural for them to be grazing all day, like their bodies were meant to do. 


Overall, I'd rather a horse has a few extra pounds on them, than being a little bit too thin. 

But that's where opinions differ. :wink: (as bluespark just said the opposite)


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Hasn't it been proven while extremes either way are obviously not good that slightly thin is better than slightly heavy? For most any animal.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Slightly thin is OK as long as the horse is that way because its worked well or because its feeding regime is set up for it - but the majority of fit healthy horses are 'air ferns' that can look plump on next to nothing - if you think about it nature evolved them that way so they could survive on meager rations in the wild. If the horse is thin because its going without food for long periods then not good at all
The trend for plumper horses - certainly in the UK the Show ring has an awful lot to answer for, if a horse wasn't really round it didn't get placed, we stopped showing yearling in the 70's because we didn't want our youngsters to look like overweight 3 year olds to be able to get into the ribbons. 
I took these of K last night - she works quite hard most days and was really on the thin side when I got her at the start of July, she doesn't eat a huge amount but has still put on weight and is now on the same restricted grazing as the others. She's 3/4 TB and very high energy so is on a low sugar/low starch based feed regime


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

laurapratt01 said:


> I posted a week or so ago wondering about a diet that would boost my horse's energy without packing on the pounds. In my thread I stated that I was feeding my horse 6 lbs of hay a day in a slow feed haynet and he was still borderline obese but lacked energy. He is worked 3-5 times a week moderately.
> I was then informed that I should be extremely worried about him getting ulcers so I needed to get him eating more meals throughout the day. I guess I'm wondering how worried you all get about "starving" your fat horses? What do you do to prevent ulcers with a horse who receives minimal forages? I personally am terrified of my horse becoming morbidly obese and foundering. He gains weight on air. Every time my vet comes out he mentions that I need to be paying attention to his weight.
> Recently, I've started feeding him poorer quality first cut so I've doubled the amount and added another feeding in the middle of the day. I can already see that he is gaining some weight. Right now he is a 6.5 body score.


You can pad out that poor quality hay with some even poorer oat straw.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Recently, I've started feeding him poorer quality first cut so I've doubled the amount and added another feeding in the middle of the day. I can already see that he is gaining some weight. Right now he is a 6.5 body score.


 agree with squirrelfood, straw is great. give him lots of straw and a limited amount of good hay(grass, not alfalfa) and as much loose salt and minerals as he'll eat.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Ribs should be _felt _but not actually seen. IMO


 at a stand still, I agree. in motion, when a horse is fit, I think you should be able to see ribs. You cant see this horses ribs at a stand still.

It also depends on type. Some horses are the thin, boney types that don't carry excess fat or muscle. Many thoroughbreds are like this. others are barrels with 4 legs and stubby necks still others carry a ton of muscle and gain fat easily. It depends on breed, shape, fitness level. 

It depends on discipline too. I was announcing a local show and most of the jumpers were in the ideal-thin category. The dressage horses were fat. The driving show I was at had a whole bunch of obese horses. My cousins percherons were on the fat side of a good weight, and their trainer wanted another 100lbs on them.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

BlueSpark said:


> at a stand still, I agree. in motion, when a horse is fit, I think you should be able to see ribs. You cant see this horses ribs at a stand still.


I agree. Even on our very stocky mares, when they are in motion or stretching, you can see their ribs.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I bet on the other side of the picture in questions, where her legs are closer together and not stretched, you would not see ribs.

She looks borderline in that pic, but healthy. I like her weight.


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## 4hoofbeat (Jun 27, 2013)

I can not see my guys ribs, i can easily feel them. overall though i'd like him to gain more weight. He just overall looks too thin to me. it's a struggle everyday, some days he eats his beet pulp some days he won't touch it.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

I wouldn't mind at all if my boy's weight was picked apart. 

He is an 8yo Latvian Warmblood (carriage/light draft type), 16.2 hands, around 600 kilos (~1320 lbs) who lives in herd environment, in a "natural" grass pasture 24/7 during grass season and, during winter, lives outside 24/7 with a grass hay roundbale, netted in a small mesh haynet. Additionally, he receives a handful of full oats and a handful of alfalfa chop twice daily with his very basic supplements, or the same amount of oats and a handful of sunflower meal during winters (+ the supplements). I have observed that sometimes even the best hay or grass isn't enough if there's something wrong with the mineral balance in the water or the soil, that leaves even the best fed horses deprived of vital nutrients and makes them "hard keepers".

This is him two winters ago. I feel that he was too thin and lacking muscle. I was told that he's "too fat" all the same, and I was too used to the sight to really see a problem, although I do now... He had access to adlib hay and everything else he needed, and his health was good, so I suspect mineral deficiency. His condition changed drastically to better as soon as we moved.










You won't see the ribs in this picture, but they were there, just hidden beneath his thick coat.

The spring after moving - you can clearly see his spine protruding where it shouldn't, as he actually is a very flat-backed type.










This is last winter. He was a bit overweight, but not much. He grows a really thick coat so the round looks are sometimes tricky.










Finally, this spring/summer. He was overweight during the spring, but his condition got a lot better during summer.




















And the beginning of autumn - going into winter condition (winters here tend to get long and cold). Also, let's remember that he's a "heavyweight", so he'll naturally never be as lean as a TB. -


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Now this has me curious.

This is my old gelding. He was 14.2hh and an arab/NSH cross. When we got him and I started working with him, I'd say he was a solid 6-6.5 on the BCS table. You couldn't feel his ribs and his chub kinda rippled when he moved faster than a walk.


And this was him 12-18 months later. He was getting worked six days per week (lunged for a minimum thirty minutes, then ridden for thirty minutes, never faster than a trot). He had a hay net full of Bermuda grass hay to keep him busy all day and got about 10-15lbs of alfalfa twice per day. No grain and no pasture (we don't really have pasture here).


Personally, I think he looks better in the second pic. You can't see his ribs, but they aren't thickly covered like they are in the first pic. I'd say he's a solid 4.5-5 in the second pic.

His owners, however, FREAKED when they saw how "skinny" he was when the second pic was taken. They gave us Purina Equine Senior and timothy hay to feed him. He hates timothy (takes it out and pees on it) and the Senior went to putting weight on the emaciated TBs we rescued when we moved barns.

So, what say you? Is he tubby or just right in the first pic? Is he skinny or just right in the second?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

He looks perfectly fine in the second picture to me... I don't see anything that shows him underweight (Can't see backbone, hips or ribs).


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

[/QUOTE]
SHE LOOKS JUST LIKE MY GELDING. She's too cute! He only has a brown spot over his eye though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BadWolf (Oct 12, 2012)

These are the trends I see in my local area:

Nearly everyone lumps their horses in to 2 main categories: Quarter horses and gaited horses, with the *vast* majority being Quarter-type. 
(I'm over-generalising, but you'll get the idea.)

The Quarter Horses are usually kept very heavy, big creases of fat especially on the hindquarters.
The gaited horses are usually kept very thin, most ribs showing.
I'm sure you can imagine the trash talk that takes place between the two groups, even though most all of the horses are outside of a healthy range no matter which side they fall on.

My own personal horses, ideally I try to do what many others have said - a bit on the thinner side so ribs show in certain light, but let them gain in the winter. It doesn't always work out that way, but that's my goal.

Recently, I had a thread going about my TWH's weight/conformation - turns out he was somewhat under, but that was easily corrected with a small dietary change. He also has naturally high hips. I got a lot of hate over the way he looked, even as I was consulting with my vet and with you all for what turned out to be a vitamin/mineral deficiency.
Here's before and after pics. I like the way he looks now, apart from needing some muscle development since he's been out of riding for a while.
The "befores" were taken in about mid-June. The "afters" were taken toward the end of August.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

TessaMay said:


> He looks perfectly fine in the second picture to me... I don't see anything that shows him underweight (Can't see backbone, hips or ribs).


What's sad is that he has severe arthritis in his hocks, so the vet has said that keeping him on the leaner side is better for him. Yet the moment they got him back, his owners started stuffing feed down him and letting him loaf around in a paddock, so last I heard, he was even more overweight than he was in the first pic and almost completely unridable because of his arthritis.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BearPony (Jan 9, 2013)

In my area it is definitely discipline specific. My eventing and foxhunting friends really like both the condition of my pony and TB. The TB is a touch leaner (and ideally, I would like to get a bit more weight on him before winter) but both are well muscled with no protuding hip bones, spine, etc. although the last couple of ribs can be barely seen on both when they are bending/stretching (both are a big fan of doing daily "cat stretches" when they are loose in the pasture). To the eventers/foxhunters my horses look in good flesh, but fit.

However, my show hunter, dressage and quarter horse riding friends are constantly telling me they are too thin. I would think they would nag me most about the TB as he's a big, rawboned horse, so even when a touch fat, he still looks rather angular but it is actually the pony they are most vocal about. They seem to really think he should be round all over rather than have any kind of obvious muscle definition.

I generally subscribe to the same views as my eventing/foxhunting friends, although I will let my TB get a touch fat because he tends to drop weight easily due to weather changes, etc. so it is nice to have a little "cushion" in case of stressful events. My pony on the other hand is so easy to keep weight on that I would rather have him on the thinner side because his breed is very prone to laminitis and other obesity related conditions.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Now this has me curious.
> 
> This is my old gelding. He was 14.2hh and an arab/NSH cross. When we got him and I started working with him, I'd say he was a solid 6-6.5 on the BCS table. You couldn't feel his ribs and his chub kinda rippled when he moved faster than a walk.
> 
> ...



an honest answer. his weight as far as fat is concerned is better in the second picture. however, his muscling , is better in the first. ths could be a mirage, due to the photo angle, or how he is stepping just at the time of the shutter going off. but, he has a poorly developed neck in the second picture, and his stance in that picture is more rigid, tight and braced. whereas the first picture does not show that sort of upside down neck development. judged on weight alone, the second picture, IMO, is the better level.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> an honest answer. his weight as far as fat is concerned is better in the second picture. however, his muscling , is better in the first. ths could be a mirage, due to the photo angle, or how he is stepping just at the time of the shutter going off. but, he has a poorly developed neck in the second picture, and his stance in that picture is more rigid, tight and braced. whereas the first picture does not show that sort of upside down neck development. judged on weight alone, the second picture, IMO, is the better level.


Interesting that you say that. Prior to the first pic being taken, when he was ridden, he was ridden with his head tied down to his chest, in a saddle that was too tight. They were trying to turn him into a western pleasure horse and it wasn't working. Prior to that, he spent four years as a hunter and excelled at it, until his arthritis became too painful and he started refusing jumps. He was not quite seven in the first picture.

Also, he hated the hot walker, which would account for his rigid stance and the mare-worthy stink eye he's directing at me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

aha! I did not even notice the hot walker.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Now this has me curious.
> 
> This is my old gelding. He was 14.2hh and an arab/NSH cross. When we got him and I started working with him, I'd say he was a solid 6-6.5 on the BCS table. You couldn't feel his ribs and his chub kinda rippled when he moved faster than a walk.
> 
> ...


Hard to tell from a random pic like that but I'd say he is fine, maybe even a tad overweight (just a little) but definitely within the healthy range. He looks like he could use muscle, whereas in the first pic he appears to be more muscular (maybe just fat though if he was that bad haha, lousy pic)

I'd put him at a 5 maybe a little more from that one pic. I'd say 5.5 but he looks a little scrawny but I think it's just muscle. So hard to say without hands on!

Definitely nothing to freak out about though. Some people think seeing a horses shape makes them emaciated :shock:. As I always say, horses are WAY too easy to kill through kindness.

"What's sad is that he has severe arthritis in his hocks, so the vet has said that keeping him on the leaner side is better for him. Yet the moment they got him back, his owners started stuffing feed down him and letting him loaf around in a paddock, so last I heard, he was even more overweight than he was in the first pic and almost completely unridable because of his arthritis."

So sad  Pretty much sums up my whole point 

ETA- I see tinyliNy wink said basically the same thing.

My boss told me today to feed her personal horse more. "He is dropping weight and will lose more with all the traveling riding him doing" Valid, but she's not doing that much. Also, the horse is currently a 5/5.5 and an easy keeper. She's going to dressage regionals in a few weeks.. So ok, guess I can give him a tad more. "The dressage people like them really really round and he's not round at all. He really needs to be round.." :shock: That does not make me want to feed your horse more.. (He is naturally bony by build and would never ever be "round" by any stretch without being morbidly obese. Sorry you're not going to get a round horse, but I guess I can give you a fat horse..:-()


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Elana said:


> The same is true of dogs and cats. Obesity in humans in the US and in their animals is pretty common.
> 
> Met a woman in the park. She said her GSD (a West German Showline) was sooo thin. Well, ma'm, that is their build. OTOH her Golden Retriever was obese. Turns out to try to put weight on the GSD she was "free feeding" and the Golden was taking advantage of that.
> 
> ...


During his younger days my GSD (Czech lines) was impossible to keep weight on. I'd mix up these juicy delicious meals (adding eggs, some blueberries, etc to a good quality kibble and canned meat). Large portions as he was so thin. Sit on the floor and hand feed him as much as I could while continuously refocussing him on me (Oh there goes the cat!) lol. He only ate if I hand fed him and basically made him. He was also super super active and lean. It was all I could do to keep him a healthy lean. He looked awesome . <85lbs.

Now he is older and having health issues yet while his weight is fluctuating (90-95lb, the lean and muscular days are over) he is not fat, and while he's a very large dog does not look fat. Can't find good pics, sorry. I'm always amazed that with being 10lbs heavier he isn't overweight. He did pass 100 a few times (love his meds) but at no point has been more than "somewhat" overweight and we got him back down. He's also getting significantly less food than he used to.

Right now he's getting 2 heaping cups with canned food and water in the evening (biscuit in the am). Our other 50lb piggy..I mean dog. Is a constant battle to keep her from popping despite limited rations though lately has been more consistant. She gets 1 level cup.

I can't imagine free feeding back in the day :shock::shock::shock:. They would of swapped weights!

So tired of seeing retrievers and labs that weigh more than my large GSD.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

flytobecat said:


> I personally like a rounder look on horse. I think that's from growing up around a bunch of QH built like tanks.
> That being said I really had to adjust what I was feeding a couple years ago when Mona started developing laminitis (weight and age were contributors). I also have 2 air ferns.
> You really have to read labels. Some foods claim to be low starch, but then you read what is in them and you are like "how is this low starch".
> Plus, I don't think a lot people really consider their horse's body type or that diet needs will change. It seems most folks just feed what their friends feed or what is cheapest.
> Mona used to be on straight alfalfa and grain when she was in daily work (4 to 6 hours of riding) when my sister owned her. She was lean and had no problems. Since she has gotten older and is basically retired (only weekend rides). She is on 2 flakes of bermuda and is still chubby. I've had to adjust Willow's diet recently as well since a friend pointed out "she was getting fat". I guess seeing her everyday, I hadn't noticed. I was like "Really, you think so. Well I did just buy her a bigger cinch" (face to palm).


Totally get that. It took me taking pictures and a video of my horse, sending them to my trainer, her scolding me, me looking at the pictures, THEN the horse to realize he was fat. And I LIKE them LEAN. Fail. It can be very hard when you see them regularly which is why I do specific weight checks every month or so.

I don't think preference should be related to health in terms of weight. Fat is fat whether you like that or not. Honestly drives me nuts when people say "I like fat". The thing I specifically hear all the time (well horses and dogs, but more specific) is cats. I know MANY people with obese cats that know they are obese but like it because it's "cute". ARG :evil:. I hate how people go with preferences over facts. Great, you're cat is cute. That's why she died at 10. (This isn't directed at this poster just an O/T from the statement "like a rounder look"! Sounds like you keep them healthy which is the most important thing!)

What also bothers me is horses that are thin, the owner KNOWS they are thin but because they "shouldn't need that much" won't buy more food. Well yeah, sorry, your hard keeper more horse than you can handle 16.2hh TB NEEDS more food than that 15hh QH air fern you owned 20 years ago. But you're an expert because you owned a horse for awhile yet you can't handle the one you have now and he looks like a rescue case. Yes I'm talking about something specific, but this is a general issue.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

My gelding is in pretty good condition and generally stays that way year round. He's odd in the winter, doesn't eat 24/7, just when he's hungry, and he "exercises" himself throughout the week. 

The PONY on the other hand. Fatty. She is already round barreled, but she gains weight super easily. It's a battle, esp in the winter, to keep her at a decent weight. Typical pony too, will literally eat 24/7 if you allow her to do so. 

I will take some pics tomorrow.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I think the thing that gets me most is the draft horses. People think that a draft that isn't blubbery is just too thin. I'll admit that this pic is stolen off of FB from a discussion that I was having with other draft horse folks the other day. This picture was posted and the first quite a few comments were of how "Awesome" and "Gorgeous" the horse looked. Of course, I post that I see morbid obesity and founder waiting to happen and my comment gets poofed and I get a hand-slap for not being "nice" *rolls eyes* Whatever.









When in reality, a draft doesn't need to be that friggin fat to still have the draft look. This is my percheron boy a few years ago when he was in consistent work, both in harness and under saddle (unfortunately, that was the only time he was in that good of shape; he's still not terribly overweight, but he is "soft" now)


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

PaintHorseMares said:


> I agree, and the breeding lines, too. Whenever I come across a horse person used to the "TB look", the first question they _always_ ask about our Impressive line mother/daughter Paint mares is "when are they due" ;-) They are both ~1100+ lbs, but are _very_ big barreled and people feel like a cartoon, bowlegged cowboy after riding.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree, I always think your horses look fat, but trust your judgment so wouldn't want to actually say that without being able to put my hands on them. Some horses will look either emaciated or fat, it's hard to have an in between when youre round and usually if you see ribs the horse is FAR too skinny.

I know a QH (stallion) with the body shape of a hamster. It's a barn joke, he really is a hamster in horse form. Yes he is a tad overweight, but only a little. It's just his shape!

Even aside from overall build a lot of horses have conformation where they WILL be ribby or they WILL have a bony backbone even while being a good weight.

"I was just curious if most folks think it's normal to look so plump."

Normal and accepted? Yes. Healthy and something we should accept? No



Saranda said:


> I wouldn't mind at all if my boy's weight was picked apart.
> 
> He is an 8yo Latvian Warmblood (carriage/light draft type), 16.2 hands, around 600 kilos (~1320 lbs) who lives in herd environment, in a "natural" grass pasture 24/7 during grass season and, during winter, lives outside 24/7 with a grass hay roundbale, netted in a small mesh haynet. Additionally, he receives a handful of full oats and a handful of alfalfa chop twice daily with his very basic supplements, or the same amount of oats and a handful of sunflower meal during winters (+ the supplements). I have observed that sometimes even the best hay or grass isn't enough if there's something wrong with the mineral balance in the water or the soil, that leaves even the best fed horses deprived of vital nutrients and makes them "hard keepers".
> 
> ...


Noticed no one responded. I agree he looks thin in the first pics. Better in the second though I can see how he would be thin under a winter coat. Imo he looks slightly to actually fat in all the ones after that. Whether it's lack of muscle or actual fat is hard to say in some pics. I get he's a draft type and wouldn't put him on a diet just because someone on the internet thinks he could use a little.
For a horse that should be round at a healthy weight I think he overall looks good and within acceptable but could lose a little (the last picture looks the heaviest I think).

Sorry for so many posts...


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## Cruiser (Aug 28, 2011)

Around here horses that are over weight are considered healthiest, although there is a barn that doesn't like to feed their horses and they are all 100-200 underweight. 

People see my pony and think she's underweight, you always see a shade of her ribs regardless. She's very hard to put weight on, at 800-850 pounds she eats 8 pounds of hi fat hi fiber feed, a in the winter upwards of 10 lbs, plus oil. And has 30 pounds of hay in front of her. That's a lot of food, she's been treated for ulcers, teeth done, dewormed etc. She's health, shiny and has pretty good muscle tone right now. We don't know what breed (s) she is, we were told quarter horse cross, but others have guessed morgan and other breeds. But who knows.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

smrobs said:


>


fftopic:

Oh my...what a pretty boy!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

This is such an interesting thread, seeing what each person's idea of an ideal weight is. Get ready for a ton of pictures.....

I noticed most of these are of overweight/ideal weight horses so I guess I'll toss in my two girls. I had a VERY tough time keeping my gangly Thoroughbred filly at a good weight due to her coming to me as a 14 month old, the size of a shetland pony and emaciated. Due to a combination of being a hard keeper anyways, a cribber, already in poor condition, extreme illness, then a severe injury, I struggled with her weight for a long time. She fluctuated a lot as she caught up on growth.

Something interesting that I noticed though, was that even when she WAS at a good weight for a yearling, I always saw her as 'skinny' because I grew up riding tub-of-lard Quarter Horses who were in serious need of exercise and a diet plan. Her slow weight gain really worried me, and even when she was filled out nicely, she looked so odd to me that I ended up calling her my Noodle Pony. I couldn't get over how narrow she naturally was! 

Anyways, here she is in many different weight stages. 

For reference, here is how she came to me. The picture is cropped because there were horses that I did not have permission to photograph in the background. The blue line shows where her spinal protrusion began and the red lines show her muscle atrophy from lack of nutrition.










This picture is about 2 1/2 months later. She appears much better, and a lot of people thought "oh! She's at a great weight already!" because just by sight she did look decent. However, when you laid your hand on her, you realized that her crappy coat and bloated belly (from a number of things including persistent worms, extreme gut problems due to the malnutrition for so long, etc) were really misleading. When you touched her topline you could feel EVERY vertebrae of her spine, if you touched her neck- while it WAS filling out, you could feel the bones, and look at those hips!










When you looked at her from up top it was so obvious.









After the bloating and hair went away about 3 weeks later you could actually see just HOW thin she was. Her belly was really misleading. (the floppy ear is an injury that she incurred in that time period). Take a look at that dip near her poll...an ewe neck in appearance. It didn't go away until she was at almost her ideal weight. Fundamentally she was not ewe necked, but the lack of weight really made it look that way.



















This is a VERY interesting picture because it really proves the fact that you need to *look at the WHOLE HORSE* when judging condition. Her ribs actually were NOT showing here unless she was moving, but she was so clearly underweight when you took into account her neck, hindquarters, chest, etc. But just looking at this picture of her, she really doesn't look bad does she? She was improving at this point, but was still very thin.










Fast forward quite a few months and there was a drastic difference even though the same amount of rib showed when she was moving. Her topline was covered, her shoulders beefed out, her hindquarters weren't quite so lanky (though she had like no butt, so they weren't QH butt sized ever), and she looked really good over all.










And finally, this is when I felt like she was really at her optimal weight. Not fat by any means, maybe a touch thin, but she was a growing 2 year old at this point. She never would look like what I was used to seeing because she was not in work and was not a stock horse, but she was at a great weight. Some people might argue that she was still too thin, but lack of muscle plays a huge part in how an animal looks over all. Adding fat to that won't help.



















So I guess the moral to that ridiculously long story was, judge your horse's weight based on both sight AND touch, take into account it's work load and muscle, its age, and its breed. All of those things play a huge role!

Another quick example of this is with ponies and miniature horses. Most people only see back yard (not show bred) ponies/minis fatter than pigs, so they assume that this is just 'how they are built' when in reality it is simply that they are overfed but pass of as 'normal' due to people becoming conditioned to accepting that as a healthy weight. SO many people told me that my miniature, who was a founder case and was on a very strict dry lot and hay diet, was too skinny...but was she really? I sure don't think so! She was muscled and conditioned like a normal horse, just like she should be. If anything she was leaning towards being pudgy.










In this picture though, you'd better believe she was fat!Yikes!









And yet people see miniatures/ponies like this one: and seem to think this is the perfect weight.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I know someone with a morbidly obese dog dying at 10 of heart problems, and the owners refuse to change anything. They are the nicest people too, total sweethearts.

I know someone with a very fat draft cross, a fat dog and a morbidly obese miniature donkey. They'll talk all day about how terrible it is to underfeed something, but bring up how bad it is to have morbidly obese animals and they just shrug and move on. Even when they are showing signs of founder:evil:


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## Hang on Fi (Sep 22, 2007)

Here's Smokey when we picked him up, little squishy in the mid-section, but could be worse. I believe he was a tick wormy. 









But of course my Dad would have the big heart he does and let him out in the back pasture for some days on and off. We have him on a dry lot. He turned into this below *headdesk* I think he'd roll all the way down a hill if someone pushed him, just sayin'.










Fiona last Spring, CLEARLY overweight *dies*. She was on 3 acres of pasture and the BO kept wanting to feed her grain, regardless of what I said. She wanted them to "associate" with her if they got loose. Ok, I understand... but 1/2 scoop of sweet feed was NOT necessary. She finally backed her off to a handful and we started muzzling.

She didn't have a cresty neck, but she had a heckuva barrel and her throat latch didn't fit.









Fiona this Spring (I think) - Still too much fluff to muscle ratio, but there was very little work/riding over the winter. She's looking a lot better now where she'd boarded and we're getting more work into her.









Now that I'm done dissing my horses  ... I think people feel that overweight is better than underweight I would guess. I mean... People do like chubby babies, right? Overweight dogs anger me more. Especially when the owner is family and my parents won't let me say anything to a dog that USED to be mine. He feeds them table scraps and drainage off his eggs because he feels "bad" for giving them dog food. I couldn't find a desk hard enough to hit my head on for that.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

We bought "Trogdor" ("Merry Boy's Hart", TWH) as a 19 yo. He died at 24 of Cushing's. He was a very easy keeper, but I didn't keep him very overweight. I am very wary of overfeeding my horses. I have three easy keepers, but none of them gets heavy on hay or pasture. I am particularly watching my 16'3hh KMH gelding. He is now on the light side of Apgar 5, scheduled to be floated soon, but I don't want him to die early or in pain from diabetes.
You know, you join a forum like this to ask questions and learn. Neither my Vet or I know about Cushings, or the symptoms until afterwards. Of course, the damage to my horse began before I bought him.
It isn't a bad thing to change the way you feed, when you discover you may be harming your horses.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Cushings is caused by tumours on the pituitary or adrenal glands or the glands growing too much (hyperplasia) causing it to gradually stop working properly and sending out abnormally high levels of cortisol. 
Unlike IRS & diet related laminitis there's no link between it and obesity and too much sugar in the diet that I'm aware of and no clear understanding of what causes the tumours to occur


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

It was very hard to lose this good horse. I first noticed that he would not shed out in the Spring of the year he died. Prior to that I just believed that he was an easy keeper.
Honestly, since this thread is about obese horses, I believe that you shorten your animal's life by letting them become overweight and not worked. My dog, "Rose" has BC in her and, at age 7 continues to be very active. She keeps my other dog, "Pyg", who will be 7yo in November, fit, too. I often see, as I work (travel) dogs that are their age, but overweight and slow and look many years older. They also have developed problems that require medication, and I believe that these are either genetic (common purebred dog problems) or bc of the extra weight.
My three horses are on pasture 6 months of the year and then on hay. I feed a small amount of sweet feed every day bc it keeps them looking for me at the end of the day, and has helped to make all of them easy to halter and lead out of their pastures, but they don't have the extra padding like a quilt that I have seen on some horses, even locally. 
Overweight for a horse is hard on the joints, hard on the bones, and hard on the heart.
I also believe, since they haven't proven otherwise, that overweight and too rich of a diet will bring about Cushings, just like it brings about diabetes in humans. Whenever you have to medicate to keep your horse alive it makes it impossible to sell that horse, unless you lie, bc nobody is interested in spending extra money/extra health care over the rest of the lifetime of your horse, when they can buy a horse without this condition. (OK, yeah, I do know a women who keeps buying injured or abused OTTB's, but she has ridden solo, and gotten bucked off and broken a leg before, and had to wait for hours before help, but she has the money to burn on this.)
Who ELSE here has kept any horse over 20 years? They aren't cheap, and I try very hard to keep my Vet bills to routine.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

Corporal said:


> Who ELSE here has kept any horse over 20 years? They aren't cheap, and I try very hard to keep my Vet bills to routine.


You have gone topic, but we have four currently alive. Another was put to sleep recently. We have had many over the years. With and without Cushings. Our horses are never overweight.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

My point was on topic. It's easy to budget for a healthy animal, but no one new to any animal considers the costs of maintaining the health of a horse who needs extra DAILY attention and daily medication. I spend ~$500/year on shots, ($100.00 on deworming) for 3 horses and 2 dogs (mixed breed.) My SIL owns purebred collies and she spends thousands of dollars each year on them.
I mentioned keeping several horses for over 20 years bc I _do know_ how much it costs to keep a healthy horse well fed and maintained where I live. When I was horse shopping about 10 years ago, I looked at a TWH mare that had an eye condition. If her bad training (at 17yo) didn't already turn me off of her, her medical condition DID.
I fully believe that Trogdor's seller knew that he had Cushings. She didn't want to visit him or hear from us again, after the sale. He was a very well mannered horse with a sweet disposition.
Tyke's seller came to see HIM once a year, and she brought her grandkids to ride him, then, too.
I don't like it for anybody to get an animal and dump it, but we see people do it all of the time--cats, dogs, horses.
A sick horse is just one more reason for irresponsible people or people financially in over their heads, to dump another horse. =/


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Corporal said:


> It was very hard to lose this good horse. I first noticed that he would not shed out in the Spring of the year he died. Prior to that I just believed that he was an easy keeper.
> Honestly, since this thread is about obese horses, I believe that you shorten your animal's life by letting them become overweight and not worked. My dog, "Rose" has BC in her and, at age 7 continues to be very active. She keeps my other dog, "Pyg", who will be 7yo in November, fit, too. I often see, as I work (travel) dogs that are their age, but overweight and slow and look many years older. They also have developed problems that require medication, and I believe that these are either genetic (common purebred dog problems) or bc of the extra weight.
> My three horses are on pasture 6 months of the year and then on hay. I feed a small amount of sweet feed every day bc it keeps them looking for me at the end of the day, and has helped to make all of them easy to halter and lead out of their pastures, but they don't have the extra padding like a quilt that I have seen on some horses, even locally.
> Overweight for a horse is hard on the joints, hard on the bones, and hard on the heart.
> ...


I'm all for saving money on vet bills, and more importantly the horse being healthy.

I do think you are misunderstanding Cushings though. Cushings is often linked with Insulin Resistance which is maybe more what you are thinking of?

Not to diss your vet but I'm a little skeptical, Cushings is very common and well known :/


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

We've kept 3 since I was born for more than 20 years. My Walker mare, that was bought when I was 9 months old as a weanling, until she died at 30.5. I held her in my arms as the vet injected her. Both of her siblings were kept over 20 years as well, they were bought as weanlings and died on our property. Both of my current horses were bought with the absolute intent to keep them until they die. 

Anyways, I don't think anyone could, in good conscious anyways, argue that it is healthy for a horse to be obese. A little extra padding in the late fall if you live in a place with a REAL winter isn't a bad thing, but not obese.


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