# How would you go about this - double dose de worming



## AQHA (Mar 15, 2010)

How do you apply a double does of wormer?

all at once, one in morning then one at night, or one one day and another the next?

also when giving safe guard do you give a full does for a 2100lb horse 2 times a day for 5 days? thats like 10 pastes is that correct?

and another question what would you give you horse this month, or in december?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

why are you double dosing?

Wormers are hard enough on thier systems, too large amounts can cause colic and death. Unless the manufacturers guidlines say it is ok to double dose and give instructions on how to then I certainly wouldnt be doing it.


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## AQHA (Mar 15, 2010)

because i have to. 

also another question - if i deworm with a *Strongid* one dose, then for the second *Exodus *would that be ok because they are the same bases just different names?


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## WalnutPixie (Oct 15, 2010)

You have to be very careful when deworming a horse. It is easy to give them too much and cause them to colic or develop other serious health problems. 

What exactly do you mean by a double dose? I knew someone who had horses that had to be "double wormed" which meant that they had to be wormed every three weeks instead of every six. 

I would strongly advise you to space deworming your horse by at least two weeks.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Walnut pixie, generaly double worming means giving double the dose of wormer.
This is a very very old fashioned way of worming and does nothing but upset the stomach and cause worms to become resistant or immune to the wormers. It has absolutly no benefits at all with modern wormers as they are formulated to remove the need for double dosing.


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## WalnutPixie (Oct 15, 2010)

faye said:


> Walnut pixie, generaly double worming means giving double the dose of wormer.
> This is a very very old fashioned way of worming and does nothing but upset the stomach and cause worms to become resistant or immune to the wormers. It has absolutly no benefits at all with modern wormers as they are formulated to remove the need for double dosing.


Really?! Well, I'm sorry for posting that then! Sometimes I remember things that people have told me back when I was younger and don't even question if its true. I'm glad you corrected me! Sorry for the confusion.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I personaly use faecal egg counts to determine when I should worm and what with. Along with twice a year general wormers for tapeworm which cant be picked up in egg counts.

Its amazing the difference between ponies. My old pony who has been wormed throughout his entire life had a huge count that shocked the hell out of me where as stan who was on the same grazing, same worming regime etc came back as nearly clear, he seems to have a natural resistance to worms. The less chemicals you pump into your horses the better it is for them and if wormers are used correctly, are rotated correctly and not over used then it lessens the chance of worms becoming resistant to the chemicals.

I know of one yard where they cant use one type of wormer as it does nothing the worms are soo resistant.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Just so you all know. you cant over dose a horse! I always give the highest amount in the container. never had a problem. The colic and death is just a mith. I did lots of resurch as well as talking to most of the vets in my area and called some out of state. Also if you think about most spit half of it out any way. If your horse is prone to colic or gets sick easily then yeah there would be problems there but other than that your horse will be fine if not beter.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

concidering that last year a friend of mine had 2 horses killed by wormers, she double dosed but because the batch of wormers was bad (too high active chemical) the horses were poisoned and died pretty horrific deaths. Vet recons if she had given a normal dose instead of a double both horses would have survived. the wormer companies won't admit that it happens but vets tell a very different storey as do product recalls. you can very easily overdose a horse on wormers, worming for an extra 100kgs isnt going to do it but a double dose could.

It is not a myth!

Worm resistance is prooven to be caused by over use of chemical wormers!

Some sites that may be of interest to those who want to understand worming indepth:
http://www.westgatelabs.co.uk/info-zone/index.html
http://www.intelligentworming.co.uk/doyouknow-wormwatch.asp


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Eqvalan - Simply Smarter Worming 
Horse owners warned over wormer resistance - Horses for sale, Equestrian news - Horse & Hound

There are also 2 academic papers (one from the Royal **** vet school in Edinburgh, which Is the uni i went to!!) but my computer keeps freezing when I try to bring them up so as soon at my computer stops being stupid I'll post them

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...44FBev&sig=AHIEtbTt7B1eai7nEryU_OJSoWTp1mjSxQ


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

AQHA if your horses have parasites you need to do a 5 day power pack of panacur or safe guard. you have to be very careful because the wormer won't cause them to get sick, but the worms they are passing can cause impaction colic. My moms horse was very sick from being infested with roundworms, and she gets wormed regularly. I would give the correct dose for how much your horse weighs. Now my horse probably weighs 1000, but i bump him up to 1200, but i wouldn't do any more. 

you should really read up on the resistance issue there has been. My moms horse was wormed last december and by the end of the month was infested. We are doing power packs on her twice a year, and getting a fecal count every other month.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

WalnutPixie said:


> You have to be very careful when deworming a horse. It is easy to give them too much and cause them to colic or develop other serious health problems.


Actually, it is quite difficult to make a horse sick with too much dewormer, unless you're giving a moxdectin or praziquantel dewomer. A couple of vet schools did field testing on the toxicity of dewormers. Moxidectin was the most potent, causing adverse reactions at four times the recommended dosage (in a healthy horse). Ivermectin was toxic after 10-15 times the recommended dose (that's TEN tubes of dewormer!!). They couldn't really get a toxic reaction using fenbendazole or oxibendazole, even at over 50 times the recommended dosage.

Now, if the horse has a large infestation of parasites and you give too much dewormer, you can risk the horse colicing from a large die-off of worms. But, the dewormer itself isn't what's causing the problem.

If I have a horse with unknown deworming history, or tested and showing a large number of parasites, I will deworm with a normal dose of Pyrantel, Ivermectin in two weeks, then Quest Plus 4 weeks after that. Pyrantel is only about 50% effective in a single dose in the Southern US, so it won't create a huge die-off.

As for double dosing, you can use two brands as long as they are the same ingredient. I give at the same time. I only double dose with Pyrantel as it will get some tape worms at double strength. Exodus has a "multi-dose" tube you can buy that has 2400 lbs worth of dewormer in it, so it works perfect.

OP: If you have a horse with a high infestation of worms, I would use the plan I detailed above. Oxibendazole and Fenbendazole are not effective, and are not very effective in the "power pack" dosing of 5-days of double strength dewormer. You're wasting money. Ivermectin followed in two weeks by Quest Plus will clean your horse out much better.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

myhorsesonador said:


> Just so you all know. you cant over dose a horse! I always give the highest amount in the container. never had a problem. The colic and death is just a mith. I did lots of resurch as well as talking to most of the vets in my area and called some out of state. Also if you think about most spit half of it out any way. If your horse is prone to colic or gets sick easily then yeah there would be problems there but other than that your horse will be fine if not beter.



You most certainly can overdose a horse. You're right in that it takes a lot but You're totally wrong to say it is impossible. And as far as colic- we have seen a horse colic more than a few times at the hospital I work at (a veterinary school teaching hospital where I am also a 3rd year student), because the horse was heavily burdened with worms and then given a large (more than properly dosed) bolus of dewormer. So, maybe you've done your research but I have seen it FIRST HAND. You can over dose and you can cause colic.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

SaddlebredGrl said:


> AQHA if your horses have parasites you need to do a 5 day power pack of panacur or safe guard. you have to be very careful because the wormer won't cause them to get sick, but the worms they are passing can cause impaction colic. My moms horse was very sick from being infested with roundworms, and she gets wormed regularly. I would give the correct dose for how much your horse weighs. Now my horse probably weighs 1000, but i bump him up to 1200, but i wouldn't do any more.
> 
> you should really read up on the resistance issue there has been. My moms horse was wormed last december and by the end of the month was infested. We are doing power packs on her twice a year, and getting a fecal count every other month.


Make sure you are using effective dewormers. Oxibendazole and Fenbendazole are not effective and are a waste of money. Pyrantel is barely effective. Pasture management is the best way to prevent infestation.

I'm also having really good luck with Molly's Herbs "natural" dewormer for my goats. It's given weekly and they haven't had any problems in ages (and two of mine are very prone to worms). I am thinking of trying it on my horses after I run out of my paste dewormers.
Molly's Herbals Natural Care for Pets & People- for the health and care of your goats, dogs, cats, horses, and other pets as well as humans


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> Actually, it is quite difficult to make a horse sick with too much dewormer, unless you're giving a moxdectin or praziquantel dewomer. A couple of vet schools did field testing on the toxicity of dewormers. Moxidectin was the most potent, causing adverse reactions at four times the recommended dosage (in a healthy horse). Ivermectin was toxic after 10 times the recommended dose (that's TEN tubes of dewormer!!). They couldn't really get a toxic reaction using fenbendazole or oxibendazole, even at over 50 times the recommended dosage.
> 
> Now, if the horse has a large infestation of parasites and you give too much dewormer, you can risk the horse colicing from a large die-off of worms. But, the dewormer itself isn't what's causing the problem.
> 
> ...


Thank you for adding the details that I was to lazy to post. lol :lol:

You know more spacifics than I do any way. I for the most part just knew you cant over dose the wormer.

Very informative. Thank you.


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## SaddlebredGrl (Oct 8, 2009)

Actually my horse and my friends horse both had round worms and a 5 day power pack is what we used and my horse has been fine since jan. My vet is the one who told me to use them and i don't think he would have suggested something that wasn't going to work. I think it depends on the horse, not the type of wormer. My moms horse is the only one having issues and she has been wormed several different ways and nothing is working. My horse on the other hand has had a 5 day pack and has been fine since. panacur doesn't work very well by itself which is why you do it for 5 days, so yes if you just did one day of panacur it's not going to work.


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## Bakkir (Mar 3, 2010)

Its so wierd but I NEVER had any issues with regular worming. My horses were always well fed and cared for with proper schedules etc. But my last two horses have been a struggle to keep clear of worms.

Poor Beauty had them really bad and I was very careful worming her. She was double dosed by the vet. 2 full tubes of Quest Plus and then again a month later.

It worked but I have never given so much at one time before. 

Bakkir got wormy too this past summer, but I think its who he's hanging with  lol!

Wasn't hard to get him clear again.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

SaddlebredGrl said:


> Actually my horse and my friends horse both had round worms and a 5 day power pack is what we used and my horse has been fine since jan. My vet is the one who told me to use them and i don't think he would have suggested something that wasn't going to work. I think it depends on the horse, not the type of wormer. My moms horse is the only one having issues and she has been wormed several different ways and nothing is working. My horse on the other hand has had a 5 day pack and has been fine since. panacur doesn't work very well by itself which is why you do it for 5 days, so yes if you just did one day of panacur it's not going to work.


Powerpaks are pretty commonly prescribed (often unnecessarily, but I'm sure your vet knows what he is doing!) It is pretty different from "over dosing" because it is spaced out over the 5 days. Trouble happens when people get a new horse with unknown deworming history and then throw two or three tubes of various dewormers at it. 

I would definitely trust what your vet says, and if anyone has questions about deworming protocols, the vet is the best person to ask as they will know your horse's history, age, size, etc., as well as typical deworming needs based on your housing situation.


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