# Mare suddenly won't come out of stall



## Seahorseys (Nov 14, 2009)

My mare has always been sociable and normally greets me at the gate whenever I call her. Even when she's out to pasture in the middle of the day, she responds to her name. Frida is in training, and we haven't had our first ride yet. Normally, when I put her in her stall to eat at night, she'll finish up and then I'll take her out again to groom her. Lately, because of the time change, I'll put her in her stall to eat some hay and then take her out after about 10 minutes to do some lunge work. Since I've started doing that, she now won't come to face me in the stall, ignores me, eating hay, and throws her head up/turns hindquarters when I try to put the halter on. She does this no other time than at night. She also makes this weird whinny like she does when shes out flirting with geldings. So how do you deal with them not coming out of their stall? I presumed that you should train your horse to come to you, and to avoid going in the stall with them as much as you can.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

My gelding had a similar problem (minus the flirting), he would completely ignore me and just continue eating his hay, and when I approached him he would pin his ears and face away from me. What he was doing/what it sounds like she was doing is a combination of being food aggressive and being disrespectful. Unfortunately both are going to require some in-stall work for her to improve.

I went out and bought a crop, and every time he went to put his head down to eat his hay, I'd smack my boot or smack the ground near the hay with it. Once he picked his head up, I'd hold the crop out to prevent him from putting his head down. Basically I made it so that he could either stand there looking at me all day, or he could put his nose in the halter, and then I'd let him grab one last bite before leaving the stall. If you don't want to use a crop, use your foot and your body language and a lead rope, similar to what you would do during free lunging to say "this is MY hay" or "this is MY grain" and that they can't eat it and she certainly can't turn her butt to you.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

This is a dominance issue. She's basically saying, it sounds like, "No, I don't wanna!" Even though this is a dominance issue, the worst thing you could do is go in, guns blazing, and smack her just for the sake of "showing her who is boss." She won't respond to that.

So, what you really need to do is make her more curious about you. Open her stall door (have a lead rope with you) and stand just outside the door. If she ignores you, crouch down and very.....very.....very....slowly, inch toward her hind end (but stay out of the kick zone!) and when you can, take the lead rope and flick her on the gaskin, under the flank, under the belly, etc....you don't want to hurt her or cause pain, but you do want to irritate her....enough that she looks at you like "WHAT do you want??" You'll have to use enough umph to cause an effect. When she looks at you, stand up, turn away and walk to the door. As soon as she looks away, crouch down again and repeat the process. The reason you go slow is because you want everything about you to be intense.....if someone approaches you quickly, it's kind of predictable, but if someone is slow and seemingly sneeky, you don't know what's coming and you want to keep your eye on them...same with a horse (a confident, dominant one). You want to get her curious about you so that she will offer to come over to you...then you can put the halter on. And make sure when you lunge her that you make things fun and interesting, not just boring circles.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Why so you feed her then take her out of the stall? Why not wait untill you're done with her then feed her? Don't make issues where there doesn't need to be any. We all have a laundry list of things that we can improve on our horses without creating unneccisary ones.


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## flamingauburnmustang (Dec 25, 2008)

How long has this behaviour been going on for? I think it may be with her being in heat that is causing the moodiness, or it could be the change in the way you are training her that is making her moody and difficult. 

I think maybe don't have a set routine with her. Some days go to the stable, give her hay and then take her out for a nice relaxing groom or run in the field. Make her day unpredictable, so she can't guess "Oh no, it's time for training". Instead add more interesting things, and if you can try and change the feeding times. Maybe every now and then enter the stable with a treat, give it to her and go away. Work in the stable with grooming or even just sit there and read a book or something, so she can see that this isn't entirely her own place. It also belongs to you.

That's just a few things I can think of. Let us know how it goes with her. :smile:


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## bubblegum (Oct 6, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> My gelding had a similar problem (minus the flirting), he would completely ignore me and just continue eating his hay, and when I approached him he would pin his ears and face away from me. What he was doing/what it sounds like she was doing is a combination of being food aggressive and being disrespectful. Unfortunately both are going to require some in-stall work for her to improve.
> 
> I went out and bought a crop, and every time he went to put his head down to eat his hay, I'd smack my boot or smack the ground near the hay with it. Once he picked his head up, I'd hold the crop out to prevent him from putting his head down. Basically I made it so that he could either stand there looking at me all day, or he could put his nose in the halter, and then I'd let him grab one last bite before leaving the stall. If you don't want to use a crop, use your foot and your body language and a lead rope, similar to what you would do during free lunging to say "this is MY hay" or "this is MY grain" and that they can't eat it and she certainly can't turn her butt to you.


 
i tried to do this with my foals and i got a bucking frenzie for about 5 mins before he got the picture the hay was mine, now i do it every day to ensure im boss. it does work well


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## waterbuggies (Jun 9, 2009)

Change your routine, she knows whats coming and don't want to leave her hay to go work. (I'm the same way, I don't want to leave my supper to go work out) Feed her after your done for the day that way she doesn't have to hurry or leave any feed.


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## SavvyHearts (Sep 29, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> This is a dominance issue. She's basically saying, it sounds like, "No, I don't wanna!" Even though this is a dominance issue, the worst thing you could do is go in, guns blazing, and smack her just for the sake of "showing her who is boss." She won't respond to that.
> 
> So, what you really need to do is make her more curious about you. Open her stall door (have a lead rope with you) and stand just outside the door. If she ignores you, crouch down and very.....very.....very....slowly, inch toward her hind end (but stay out of the kick zone!) and when you can, take the lead rope and flick her on the gaskin, under the flank, under the belly, etc....you don't want to hurt her or cause pain, but you do want to irritate her....enough that she looks at you like "WHAT do you want??" You'll have to use enough umph to cause an effect. When she looks at you, stand up, turn away and walk to the door. As soon as she looks away, crouch down again and repeat the process. The reason you go slow is because you want everything about you to be intense.....if someone approaches you quickly, it's kind of predictable, but if someone is slow and seemingly sneeky, you don't know what's coming and you want to keep your eye on them...same with a horse (a confident, dominant one). You want to get her curious about you so that she will offer to come over to you...then you can put the halter on. And make sure when you lunge her that you make things fun and interesting, not just boring circles.



Agreed
Also if all you do is come at that time to take her out and lunge her, she is associating you and you being there at that time trying to take her out, to being worked. At that time, you are nothing more than a work monster.
Have you tried just sitting with her in the stall or sitting by the stall and not asking her to do anything?


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

SavvyHearts said:


> Agreed
> Also if all you do is come at that time to take her out and lunge her, she is associating you and you being there at that time trying to take her out, to being worked. At that time, you are nothing more than a work monster.
> Have you tried just sitting with her in the stall or sitting by the stall and not asking her to do anything?


Since her problem seems to be a dominance issue/food aggression putting herself in a confined space with the mare wouldn't be a smart idea. If she wanted to do that, it would be better to move her to a round pen where she has plenty of space to evade being kicked or bitten as well as push the mare away if she gets too space-aggressive.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The horse wouldn't have a problem if she would feed it after she had worked it. Imagine if I took you to dinner and you ordered your verty favorite food. After three bites I said " come on lets go clean stalls". The first time you might not get too aggravated but the second time on you would be relectent to leave your delicious meal and resent soing the work. If I ask you to clean stalls then took you to dinner you would be much happier with the whole process. Why even worry about this problem when you can eliminate it with zero effort?


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## ChevyPrincess (Aug 27, 2009)

I agree with Kevin, food should always be like a reward. That last thing I do to my horse is feed him. I feed him when the days work is done, it is his reward. Just feed her after you are done with everything, then she won't be taken away from her food and you won't have to worry about it.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Well IMO, since I don't have a concrete schedule, I would much rather have a horse who can come out of his stall and work at any time, whether it be in the middle of the day or smack dab in the middle of feeding time. But I also don't keep him on my own property, so I don't have very much control over when he's fed.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

You should be able to catch your horse at any time but don't expect him to be happy about it. In the OP she said that she fed the horse then put him in his stall to eat for ten minutes.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I agree with kevinshorses. Yes, all horses should leave food and aggression shouldn't be an issue, but she's learning to associate you and work with being taken away from her food. I'm assuming she's not freefed since she's coming into her stall to eat hay, so you really have to look into equine dynamics. They weren't meant to eat in this fashion to begin with, much less be annoyed by humans forcing them away from their dinner.

Ours are free fed, so it's never an issue. They're more then happy to come see who might have a cookie and never annoyed at leaving their hay. They know it'll be there when it gets back. It's equine nature to protect food, especially when they know it only comes at particular times - she's protecting her food from you, an intruder.

If for whatever reason I was in a situation where my horse was on a set feed schedule (god forbid), I'd definately choose my work times around the feed times. If she's only getting 10 minutes worth of hay, it doesn't even have much of a point. Just let her eat when she's done and let her associate work with a good thing.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I just picked up on something kevinhorses said....don't expect your horse to be happy about you catching him.....your horse SHOULD want to interract with you, he SHOULD want to spend time with you. If he doesn't want to, then there is a hole in the relationship.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> I just picked up on something kevinhorses said....don't expect your horse to be happy about you catching him.....your horse SHOULD want to interract with you, he SHOULD want to spend time with you. If he doesn't want to, then there is a hole in the relationship.


I believe he meant in a situation like this one, not in general. You can't mess with the biological natural function of horses and expect them to be "happy". Willing maybe, but I think it's a little extreme to expect a horse to actually prefer hanging out with you instead of eating in a situation where the feeding isn't natural to their function.


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## Seahorseys (Nov 14, 2009)

i understand what you are saying about the feeding before work, however, that is another thing she is so used to, coming in after turnout and eating. So it is difficult to stop before her stall and crosstie her/tack her up, because she is focused on getting to her stall and expecting dinner. I don't grain before we work, I just let her eat some hay. I will try some of your suggestions. You are right in that she may not be comfortable with the work we are doing, because I just took her out of the round pen to lunge on the flat and she doesn't know how to circle! The time change has totally messed up my normal routine!


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

Spirithorse said:


> This is a dominance issue. She's basically saying, it sounds like, "No, I don't wanna!" Even though this is a dominance issue, the worst thing you could do is go in, guns blazing, and smack her just for the sake of "showing her who is boss." She won't respond to that.
> 
> So, what you really need to do is make her more curious about you. Open her stall door (have a lead rope with you) and stand just outside the door. If she ignores you, crouch down and very.....very.....very....slowly, inch toward her hind end (but stay out of the kick zone!) and when you can, take the lead rope and flick her on the gaskin, under the flank, under the belly, etc....you don't want to hurt her or cause pain, but you do want to irritate her....enough that she looks at you like "WHAT do you want??" You'll have to use enough umph to cause an effect. When she looks at you, stand up, turn away and walk to the door. As soon as she looks away, crouch down again and repeat the process. The reason you go slow is because you want everything about you to be intense.....if someone approaches you quickly, it's kind of predictable, but if someone is slow and seemingly sneeky, you don't know what's coming and you want to keep your eye on them...same with a horse (a confident, dominant one). You want to get her curious about you so that she will offer to come over to you...then you can put the halter on. And make sure when you lunge her that you make things fun and interesting, not just boring circles.



Oh good lord…if I acted like this my horse would wonder what the heck happened to ME! You promote that "Predator/Prey" stuff and what do you think you are acting like here crouching down and inching towards her hind end? Crap like this can get your face kicked in no matter how careful you think you are. I don't act any different around a horse than I always do. When I enter a stall, I enter a stall. If I approach a horse with a halter, that's what I'm going to do, halter the horse. No guesswork involved. The horse KNOWS what to expect and what I want. 

Seahorseys - How IMPORTANT is it to you to lunge her when you do instead allowing her to eat in peace before you lunge her. If your answer is VERY IMPORTANT, then you will have to treat it as such. If your answer is, NOT very important, then let her eat. Being a good leader has as much to do with considering your horse and what is best for it as it does insisting that it does what you want when you want.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> This is a dominance issue. She's basically saying, it sounds like, "No, I don't wanna!" Even though this is a dominance issue, the worst thing you could do is go in, guns blazing, and smack her just for the sake of "showing her who is boss." She won't respond to that.
> 
> So, what you really need to do is make her more curious about you. Open her stall door (have a lead rope with you) and stand just outside the door. If she ignores you, crouch down and very.....very.....very....slowly, inch toward her hind end (but stay out of the kick zone!) and when you can, take the lead rope and flick her on the gaskin, under the flank, under the belly, etc....you don't want to hurt her or cause pain, but you do want to irritate her....enough that she looks at you like "WHAT do you want??" You'll have to use enough umph to cause an effect. When she looks at you, stand up, turn away and walk to the door. As soon as she looks away, crouch down again and repeat the process. The reason you go slow is because you want everything about you to be intense.....if someone approaches you quickly, it's kind of predictable, but if someone is slow and seemingly sneeky, you don't know what's coming and you want to keep your eye on them...same with a horse (a confident, dominant one). You want to get her curious about you so that she will offer to come over to you...then you can put the halter on. And make sure when you lunge her that you make things fun and interesting, not just boring circles.


I didn't read this whole post before but once I did I laughed out loud. I have perfectly gentle horses that would not be too unhappy with being taken away from thier hay but they would probably kick your face off just for general priciples. I don't know that I have ever heard such poor advice seriously given. That would be the perfect technique if you wanted a face that looked like the lady that had her face ripped off by a chimp.


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## ChevyPrincess (Aug 27, 2009)

I have never heard of anyone solving a dominance issue that way.... And I definitely wouldn't do it. It's not a dominance issue as it is a food issue. Yes I am a horse lover, and horses do learn to like people BUT, their needs must be met first. Horses spend most of their time eating anyway, in the wild especially. A horse will listen to you, and be more willing to do what is asked, as long as their needs are met. Right now, you are interrupting your mare's needs. So in her mind, you are not providing for her. You can't expect her to behave or listen or respect you if you haven't respected her and provided for her like a leader.

Maybe you should get a different feeding schedule, it will take time to get used to for her, but, I think it would be better in the long run...


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

you have confused her; if you have just given her some hay, then of course she is not wanting to come out of the stable; to her mind you are being unreasonable, and giving a conflicting message... just give her her hay after she has been ridden. horses cant tell the time; she will soon get used to an hours time difference.


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## Seahorseys (Nov 14, 2009)

OK- got it. No food until all's said and done. I'm going to change her feeding schedule. She's my first horse, so after riding for almost 10 years, owning one makes me feel like I know very little!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

It's interesting you feel the need to poke fun and criticize me. Do I take offense? Nope, because your opinions on what I do mean squat to me. You can ridicule me all you want to, go ahead, it just shows everyone who you truly are as a person....so go ahead and make yourselves look ridiculous 

I never offer advice that I myself have never tried and had success with. But I don't need to explain myself to you, I know it works, I get results with it, end of story...and I've never been kicked


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Spirithorse said:


> I've never been kicked


 
Yet!!!


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I won't get kicked....if you go back and read my original post, I said to NOT get in the kick zone  If you stay out of the kick zone at all times, you don't get kicked!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I'm utterly confused here - how exactly do you manage to flick a horse with a leadrope in the belly while crouching down and staying out of their kick zone? I'm doing the math in my head, and in order to be in a position where you could not be kicked, you'd basically have to get enough momentum for the rope to whack them hard in the belly.

I respect some of your opinions SpiritHorse, but I'd actually be REALLY curious to see you attempt this with my Arab mare. I'm pretty sure she'd eat you for breakfast. I had a boyfriend almost get double barrelled from trying games like that with her. She will NOT tolerate any movements or annoyances from someone lower then her knees. Blame it on years of being abused by idiot owners and their dogs, but I don't believe for even a second that you could manage to do this without getting severely injured.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I wished I lived near you, I'd gladly come over. Not all horses need this strategy, it certainly depends on the horse and the situation. Now, the tools I use (carrot stick with string attached) gives me the reach needed to flick the horse while being out of the kick zone. I suggested a lead rope, which is usually still long enough, because not everyone has a training stick....and you certainly don't want to use a lunge whip!


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## Seahorseys (Nov 14, 2009)

I think alot of things concerning horses are trial and error. I took the gist of spirithorses post as "get your horses attention!" since me and frida are both learning, i know what it feels like to feel like i am a million miles away from my horse when i'm within arm's length. the horse world is a very judgemental place, people get wrapped up in who does what better, but i'm pretty sure a majority of people want what's best for their horse and have different ways of going about it. Thanks for EVERYONE's advice!


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

one of the key things with having a happy relationship with your horse, is knowing how to avoid the issues in the first place. it is simply a matter of giving confusing signals, which i'd say about 85 % of all problems are down too.in this case it is an easy issue to avoid. what is the point of going in heavy handed, when it is a simple thing to sort out kindly. treating a horse in a heavy handed way, only creates more problems, and the only person who benefits from that is the trainer who then gets to earn money sorting it out.


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

and just need to add, when you say you give her hay, its unclear how much you are giving her; you shouldnt feed your horse before working her, maybe just a handful of hay or chaff to get her in, but to feed before working her is asking for colic. feed after work


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## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

Spirithorse, unlike you, I have no point to prove or philosophy to uphold. I responded to your advice/post the way I did because I thought it was, and is, DANGEROUS. I would have done the same to ANY post/advice I felt was as ill advised and dangerous as yours…so don't take it personally! This isn't about YOU and what you can do. It's about the person asking the question and whether or not the advice is safe for THEM. There are things I do with horses that I would never advise anyone else to do, because I know that if it is done improperly, they, or the horse, could get hurt. 

Horses are honest animals and appreciate honesty, not sneakiness.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I think the OP is smart enough to make the proper decision...she doesn't need you slamming someone based on your opinion. You can disagree with me, I don't care, but if you feel the need to comment do it in a respectful way. 

I'm not trying to make this about what I can do.....I'm not shallow  I'm sticking up for my opinion because it's worked for me, on many horses, each time...and I've never been in danger.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I WOULD agree with the 'instead of making a problem, just feed her after you work her' thing if this had been done in the first place. BUT since she has told you she is dominant, you cant just change routine and forget it ever happened. You need to confront it. I would put a halter on her with a long lead rope and then feed her. Make sure the end of the lead rope is somewhere where you can reach it when you enter the stall. When you come in (you could maybe hold a lead rope to make the scenario more authentic) and she points her butt at you, pull the lead rope thats attached to her halter and make her face you. you can even hold a whip and whack her butt while you do this so she understands what she did was a no-no


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## flamingauburnmustang (Dec 25, 2008)

Spirithorse is right about the last post. She knows that the OP would have the knowledge about whether her horse would react badly to the advice or not. Don't climb into her. She was just offering advice that has helped her and may help others too. :smile:

Everyone must respect each other's opinions and views. If you don't agree with something, either say it in a nice way, or just don't say anything at all. :wink:


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

flamingauburnmustang: I love your signature!


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## flamingauburnmustang (Dec 25, 2008)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> flamingauburnmustang: I love your signature!


LOL. Thanks. :grin:


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## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

Respect is a two sided agreement. It is not dominance. Let her eat in peace.


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