# What do you think about these stallions?



## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

your links don't work
:-(


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

hope this works..


http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com/Eldorado.html

http://www.blazingcoloursfarm.com/goldentime.html

http://hp-horses.tripod.com/stallions-.html

http://northernhorse.com/kkquarterhorses/listings.asp?ltype=stallion

http://www.1yquarterhorses.com/ninety_nine_goldmine.htm


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

was able to find the AQHA studs,the first one nothing special except getting a "cool" color from him. The other 2 are running QH/Barrel horse stallions,Better pedigrees & conformation,prefer them.The Frenchman's Guy stallion is more affordable.BTW your mare is pretty cute!!


links to the studs
http://hp-horses.tripod.com/stallions-.html
http://northernhorse.com/kkquarterhorses/listings.asp?ltype=stallion
http://www.1yquarterhorses.com/ninety_nine_goldmine.htm


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I guess you can only edit a post once on here? that's silly!

and yes, I sort of figured that about the first guy. Though, I didn't see anything wrong with his confo. I'm definitely still learning about that department though. Nothing special in the bloodlines or anything eh? (I don't know bloodlines at all)


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

on some of those stallions you would have to doing AI shipping,that can really add up :shock:,something to consider...


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## Merlot (Sep 12, 2012)

I personally don't like either of the Tbs - apart from colour they're not that great (IMHO) and don't get me wrong I LOVE thoroughbreds. 
The palomino quarter horse is gorgeous. 
However that being said don't assume that just because you breed your cow hocked mare to a great stallion you'll breed the fault out - it doesn't usually work that way


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Merlot said:


> I personally don't like either of the Tbs - apart from colour they're not that great (IMHO) and don't get me wrong I LOVE thoroughbreds.
> The palomino quarter horse is gorgeous.
> However that being said don't assume that just because you breed your cow hocked mare to a great stallion you'll breed the fault out - it doesn't usually work that way


Thanks for the reply! And I realize that about faults, but figure it's better to try than ignore it 

What is it that you don't like about the TBs? I don't know a whole lot about them tbh, but if there is something wrong I'd like to know, to make it easier to find a better option.

Also, I think I'll be going the AI route regardless... I live way up north, and locally there are only 3 studs to choose from... None of whom I really like. To haul my mare south means about 3000km one way
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Merlot (Sep 12, 2012)

Hi snowcowgirl,
it could be the photographs but they both look a little weak in the hind end to me. The cremello was the better horse having said that, the palomino Tb is very ordinary - again that's just my opinion and it could well be the photography - I always like to see a horse in real life that way you can also assess the movement


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## clairegillies (Nov 25, 2012)

River is a nice looking mare.

I like the looks of Hula Guy and 99 Goldmines.

if she is 1/4 arab why not find an arab to breed her to, then you'ld have a 3/4 you could register and show?

Claire


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Before you get too hyped up and set on one particular stallion you need to check with the owners if they are even willing to breed to a grade mare as a lot of stallion owners will not.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

I have a clyde cross that is very similar build to yours and I breed her to a Holstiener and got a very nice cross......I will post pics to you can see.

The stallion was owned by Klondike Victory Farms out of Alberta....the owner was great to work with.....the stallion is no longer there but she does have some others that might be suitable.

Dam - Clyde/Quarter Horse Cross

Phyllis photo by DalEmma2002 | Photobucket

Sire

Daimler photo by DalEmma2002 | Photobucket

Resulting Filly

Dalayla confo photo by DalEmma2002 | Photobucket


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I like the idea of crossing her with a thoroughbred. However I don't like many of the colored thoroughbreds, they are often snatched up as stallions based on color alone, very few, if any ever race and many are not proven in any other disapline either.

I dont like either thoroughbred posted, they both look very average. Good gelding, but not spectacular stallions.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

clairegillies said:


> River is a nice looking mare.
> 
> I like the looks of Hula Guy and 99 Goldmines.
> 
> ...


I did think about this lots! but had people tell me that I'd have a hard time finding an Arab with a strong enough rear end to complement hers.

Merlot, obviously I have lots to learn because I thought the Palomino had a better hind end than the Cremello!




BlueSpark said:


> I like the idea of crossing her with a thoroughbred. However I don't like many of the colored thoroughbreds, they are often snatched up as stallions based on color alone, very few, if any ever race and many are not proven in any other disapline either.
> 
> I dont like either thoroughbred posted, they both look very average. Good gelding, but not spectacular stallions.


Good to know, thank you very much!

Right now it's looking like the Frenchman's Guy stud is the best option.... I'm going to continue looking through, still have quite a bit of time.

To the person above with the clyde stud: I am actually purposely trying to stay away from the draft breeds for this foal. River is built heavy enough and I'm hoping to end up with a bit lighter built foal. 

Thanks for the opinions everyone, this really helped!


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Super Nova said:


> I have a clyde cross that is very similar build to yours and I breed her to a Holstiener and got a very nice cross......I will post pics to you can see.
> 
> The stallion was owned by Klondike Victory Farms out of Alberta....the owner was great to work with.....the stallion is no longer there but she does have some others that might be suitable.
> 
> ...


sorry, I misread your post the first time! A holsteiner is a neat idea, I'll look into that a bit, thanks.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

what about THIS guy?
bum looks better!

I guess the thing to remember is that I don't need a stud with race earnings or even a super extensive show record. That said, I'm still learning about conformation... but to me, this guy looks better than the previous two TBs?

I know color is not everything, but I feel like there MUST be a good, colored TB stud somewhere out there haha 

Guaranteed Gold « True Colours Farm


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

In all honesty I wouldn't touch Guaranteed Gold with a 10 foot pole.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

really? I was definitely wondering about the amount of promoting.... seems like they'll breed him to anything, with zero discretion


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

so, basically it's impossible to find a quality, colored TB stud haha. Back to Quarter Horses it is I guess  

Are there specific reasons why you don't like Guaranteed Gold? (out of curiosity)


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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

Agreed. I would be very leery about dealing with someone who splashes their business all over the internet like that. The owner is very negative about other stallions but does not respond well to negative opinions of him by others. I just like to keep the crazy away as much as possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

What are you looking to spend on a fee? 

The problem with breeding grades is you never know quite what you're going to get, unless it's a grade "line" that you've bred down through the years. When you start adding new breeds to the mix you can really get something unexpected. 

My first bet would be to stick with the breeds within her lines already. Otherwise I'd go with a stud that tends to throw similar babies over disparate dams, especially for the hind end if that's what you're worried about.

My friend has some FG babies and they are nice horses. Good confo and great minds overall, so it wouldn't hurt to take a closer look at the FG stud, though if you can afford it I'd try to breed to FG himself.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Basically what reiningfan said in regards to GG.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

reiningfan said:


> Agreed. I would be very leery about dealing with someone who splashes their business all over the internet like that. The owner is very negative about other stallions but does not respond well to negative opinions of him by others. I just like to keep the crazy away as much as possible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


amen to that! though she's across the country, the sheer concept of someone like that is enough to steer me away.

I apologize in advance for posting lots about potential studs in the next few months, haha!


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> What are you looking to spend on a fee?
> 
> The problem with breeding grades is you never know quite what you're going to get, unless it's a grade "line" that you've bred down through the years. When you start adding new breeds to the mix you can really get something unexpected.
> 
> ...


thanks for this! and yes, I definitely realize this about grades... always a risk. HOWEVER, although I will definitely strive to produce the best foal that I can, in the end I only show at the provincial level and am not that serious overall. If I end up with a healthy, somewhat conformationally correct foal I will be happy. I'd like to have something with potential re-sale value, just because you never know what will happen... that said, I intend to keep the foal and have been pretty darn happy with "incorrect" horses before. I guess I'm being picky with high hopes, but will be satisfied with whatever River baby I get.

I've been thinking about looking into some Arab or half Arab reining studs, purely for the athletic ability and butts, lol. 

Unfortunately, FG is out of my price range (I think his fee is at $5000?). I'd like to stay below $1500 at the highest as I will almost certainly have to do AI, and I realize that can rack up as well.


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

If you want a REALLY nice colorful thoroughbred, consider Goldmaker:

Goldmaker - Avalon Equine

However, I am not sure what he has produced from mares like yours. You may want to ask Kathy. She is wonderful to deal with!!

Also, I have PERSONALLY seen and worked with SEVERAL Guaranteed Gold offspring, and the one thing I can definitely say is that he is consistent with reproducing certain traits. From what I have seen he definitely produces a nice hindquarter, and usually he improves a neck and head. Are you looking to produce a colorful, amateur-friendly horse that is trainable? You might like a GG foal. His owner may not be everyone's cup of tea, but to call her "crazy" on a public forum is a bit overboard, no? It's just in poor taste, whatever your personal opinion. I think that we should ALL manage to provide an opinion without resorting to name-calling. Just my $.02. 

Off my soap box now. In all honesty, if you are going to look at thoroughbred stallions, you really want to consider one for the quality of their offspring, regardless of color, and consider ONLY those that are actually producing offspring that are having success doing what YOU want to do, out of mares similar in type and breeding to your own. They do exist, but maybe not so much in a colored package. Color should be the last consideration, especially with a maiden mare of somewhat "spotty" lineage. She looks like a nice mare, but you really don't know what might come through in her offspring, so you want to be VERY careful to find a stallion that really stamps his offspring with the type you want. 

I really don't think there is much better than a GOOD thoroughbred stallion. I use nice thoroughbred stallions liberally in my breeding program, and I have about 5 on my short list of "must use someday". On the other hand, I could say the same thing about a GOOD arabian stallion. 

For your mare, I would stick to a good arabian...but finding one producing offspring consistently out of mares similar to yours may be difficult. Not that they aren't out there, but I imagine they aren't as glamorously advertised as some of the more popular, pretty boys.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Joie said:


> If you want a REALLY nice colorful thoroughbred, consider Goldmaker:
> 
> Goldmaker - Avalon Equine
> 
> ...


thank you! for all of this


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Our StallionsFleetwood Farms

Some more AQHA  {in Alberta} You seem to like the different colors,so thought may interest you:wink:


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I was [ this ] close to breeding to him last year actually! and he is still on my consideration list


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I also would pass up on GG. 

The way a stallion owner behaves online speaks VOLUMES!!!

If she can't leave her drama out of threads pertaining to her stud, I wouldn't even look twice....that goes with ANY stallion owner lol


Avalon Equine is amazing when it comes to knowledge. I would breed to any stud she had (if I didn't have a fjord) lol


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

When it comes right down to it - it should be about the stallion, not the owner, regardless. I can't draw an opinion on the stallion owner as I do not know her, but I won't pass up a stud based purely on internet people's opinions of the owner. 

That said, I have not made a decision yet.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

The stallion is an important part, however the owner is a bigger one. Plenty of stories floating around the internet of people paying to breed to a stallion and never getting their semen they ordered. Pick your stallion, but be wise about the owner as well.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Owner most definitely matters if you want to get the correct semen, non-contaminated, and viable. Or if you want to have a relatively easy time with the whole breeding experience. I know nothing about the owner in question so I'm these statements aren't in regards to her, but I would not work with any stud owner who had a lot of bad stories floating around about them. There are plenty of studs out there, why work with a person who is a PITA or dishonest?


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## trainerunlimited (Jan 26, 2012)

I think the first couple TB's you posted have weak hindquarters, definitely something to think about as you're looking to improve the hindquarters of your mare's offspring. Whoa, I'd certainly breed her to a nice arabian. She'd throw something really nice out of the right stallion, imo. Good luck finding the stallion for you!


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Alright so... I am going to just state the obvious here. If you are thinking of spending $1,200 or so on a stud fee, add in mare care for a year and then at the very minimum 2-3 years before you can do anything with the baby. You have quite an investment on a horse that won't even be registered. Now, I know registration doesn't mean anything to some owners and it certainly isn't everything but... Seems like you could buy quite a nice foal for what you will have invested without the risk of pregnancy and waiting to see what you get. Also, won't have to wait the extra time before working with them. Just food for thought. 

I guess... If it were me I would buy rather then breed this mare. If I for some reason HAD to breed her, I would stick with an Arab for the 1/2 Arab registration. In large part, I wouldn't breed simply for the risk to the mare when there are so many foals already out there that I could buy. It is afterall a buyers market right now.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

paintedpastures said:


> Our StallionsFleetwood Farms
> 
> Some more AQHA  {in Alberta} You seem to like the different colors,so thought may interest you:wink:


 
He doesn't breed to non-registered mares. The owner is my riding coach and he is very picky about what he breeds to and it's evidenced by the very nice foals they produce. They are nice stallions though.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

jumanji321 said:


> He doesn't breed to non-registered mares. The owner is my riding coach and he is very picky about what he breeds to and it's evidenced by the very nice foals they produce. They are nice stallions though.


Interesting as I was in touch with him last spring..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

trainerunlimited said:


> I think the first couple TB's you posted have weak hindquarters, definitely something to think about as you're looking to improve the hindquarters of your mare's offspring. Whoa, I'd certainly breed her to a nice arabian. She'd throw something really nice out of the right stallion, imo. Good luck finding the stallion for you!


I thought the same about the first TBs! This is the type of feedback I'm looking for so thank you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Inga said:


> Alright so... I am going to just state the obvious here. If you are thinking of spending $1,200 or so on a stud fee, add in mare care for a year and then at the very minimum 2-3 years before you can do anything with the baby. You have quite an investment on a horse that won't even be registered. Now, I know registration doesn't mean anything to some owners and it certainly isn't everything but... Seems like you could buy quite a nice foal for what you will have invested without the risk of pregnancy and waiting to see what you get. Also, won't have to wait the extra time before working with them. Just food for thought.
> 
> I guess... If it were me I would buy rather then breed this mare. If I for some reason HAD to breed her, I would stick with an Arab for the 1/2 Arab registration. In large part, I wouldn't breed simply for the risk to the mare when there are so many foals already out there that I could buy. It is afterall a buyers market right now.


Thanks for the opinions 

I will admit that registration means absolutely nothing to me.. And you must remember that I'm located up near Alaska. Horse prices seem to be better in Canada than the states, because I was looking at young horses and don't really find much that interests me for under 3000$. Plus the 25 hour drive (one way) to Alberta or BC

I've definitely thought about this for a long time (years), but always appreciate other thoughts!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

... $3000 may be a slight exaggeration, but in all honesty around $2000-$2500 would be accurate.

Thing is, I LIKE my mare. I like her temperament, her toughness, and I've competed successfully on her. If I got a foal like her I'd be happy, but figure I might as well try to improve on a couple things if I can, right?

I think I've decided on a stud, thanks all
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

SnowCowgirl said:


> Interesting as I was in touch with him last spring..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Hmm, I know he's turned mares away because they weren't registered. He's turned away multiple people on his Facebook who had well put together mares but they weren't registered. This is recent though and it's possible he accepted non-registered mares back then. Good to see you've found a stud though!


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I want to pass on something about GG. I have personally worked with some of his offspring and have worked with people that have tried to breed to GG.

His foals that I have personally worked with did have soundness issues in a huge way. 

Mare owners I know that have tried to breed to GG had nothing but nightmare experiences with things such as delayed shipping of semen, not following through and just being unreliable. I considered GG at one point for my mare and after my research I ran far away.

If you are not stuck on colour I am a fan of A Fine Romance. He produces quality offspring that have gone on to do big and great things. They have a nice mind and very athletic. He passes on great traits to his foals. Another bonus is I have found his owner to be very honest about what crosses well with "Fred" and she is always up for recommending other stallions if she doesn't think hers will cross well with your mare. 

I also am a fan of Goldmaker. I haven't seen him cross with a draft cross but Kathy is a dream to talk to and work with.

There was a nice stallion in Winnipeg named Three Cups Apple Jack. I know he was sold to someone in BC. He is worth checking into. He produces big foals, crosses really well with draft cross mares, he throws colour, temperment and talent. I have been in love with him since the moment I laid eyes on him and his offspring are amateur friendly and have been doing really well in the show ring. His previous owners were Misty River Ranch, they might be able to point you in the right direction.


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## QuarterCarolina (Dec 16, 2012)

She's gorgeous. From my personal experiences with my draft x quarter I would definitely suggest something that compliments size wise (to fill in the spaces) and if she has faults that can't be corrected with corrective trimming, shoeing, etc... (big or small) I would suggest a stud who passes on his build rather than the mares. Also from personal experience I would want to talk to the stallion owner myself thoroughly on my concerns. Recently I sent my mare away to be bred and also bought 2 mares off of the stallion owner who were in foal. Well one mare had a major uterine infection and luckily did not take when she had been bred so wasn't in foal. I mean a major infection and were lucky to have saved her life, another also had this infection from breeding to the same stud and her baby was lost to placentitis as the lady had never had a vet to see them (premature birth and redbag), my mare that I had sent to her to breed came back looking as if she was not fed at all. I know my mare like the back of my hand, she is an easy keeper and nicely built. I know breeding can take a toll on both horses, but I've never had a horse return like she did. Luckily no health issues from breeding as it was another stud of hers that she recently acquired. Now I know you're doing AI so you are not sending your mare away, but being aware of all risks and the breeders reputation is a big part of breeding. I will never send my mare to a breeder I have not gotten reviews from (good and bad) ever again. Bad reviews from a couple people are fine, but bad reviews from numerous people is a major red flag. Either way I hope you find the stallion that compliments her best. Regardless of color, I hope you end up with a foal with the mares positives as well as the stallions. It all comes down to personal preference. I like my horses short and thick  while my fiance likes them tall and wide ;-). I also like mine a little temperamental while he likes his "lazy". Best of luck!


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## smguidotti (Jul 31, 2012)

What about breeding her to the number one Irish drought Stallion in the US? I have met the stallion and the owner, Connie, who will breed to unregistered mares, and has fantastic big boned horses with tons of athletic ability! 

Stallions 

He is 16.3 hands too and would make IMO a beautiful baby with your mare


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

A lot of his babies end up with blazes and white socks too


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Thank you everyone! 

this is hard... such difficult decisions, I finally get my mind made up and then I change it. I guess it's good I'm in no rush haha. 

NBEventer, I will look into all those studs, thank you for sharing and for the advice!!

smguidotti.. he is gorgeous, but I feel like he really doesn't do anything to compliment River's neck! I'm not really too sure his hind end is exactly what I should be looking for either. I will look more into it for sure though, especially since I never even thought about an Irish Draught.

I wish I could take a course on conformation haha. I've tried to learn all I can from the internet but it's so hard to tell if I'm seeing the right things!!

QuarterCarolina, what a horrible experience! Wow... I really am doing the best I can to learn all I can about the studs and owners, the best way so far has been through online forums. But then the difficult part is finding out what is just "hate", and what are legit reviews. That really does sound terrible though and I'm sorry you had that happen! thank you for the compliment on Riv


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

also, NBEventer, what sort of soundness issues out of curiosity?

I guess this is why it's so important to learn about offspring too... because, honestly, looking at GG and then at Goldmaker, (and with my amateur eye), I would think that Goldmaker has better conformation. What am I missing??


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

You should really take a look at Avalon equines website, my favorite is Edelweiss De Bonce, hes gorgeous! (and he's got a big butt 

I personally would NOT breed to a heavy built stud like a QH or an Irish draught (he is gorgeous by the way!) since your mare is already a draft cross, go with lighter, warmblood type horse for height and less bone.

Edelweiss de Bonce - Avalon Equine

http://www.avalon-equine.com/edward-scissorhands-davalon.html

http://www.avalon-equine.com/mannhattan.html


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## QuarterCarolina (Dec 16, 2012)

That is very true, I had heard wonderful things about the stud himself however he was being leased for the breeding season to this breeder and I didn't think someone who was a breeder for 40 years with great stock (selling due to economy and retiring) would take such poor care of their horses. Then again I don't view my mare as property or a money maker, but as my child. One of the mares also had a very painful back injury that I am paying a pretty penny for. It is unfortunate, but I acquired some amazing horses and they have taught me many a lesson. May I suggest talking to people who have personally bred with the stud you're interested in for their experience and they may send you a pic of the resulting foal? If you get a bad review ask the breeder directly. Reputable and honest ones will admit to fault or give you peace of mind, they will NOT get defensive or rude towards yourself. When I am looking at studs I always look beyond him, what has he produced when bred to both the outstanding mare and then the short stick mare? Just a thought, and if you can't look at a stud and say (with entire certainty) that's going to be the sire I would keep searching. You can also look at the foals rather than the stud and pick a sire that way. ^^personally I also like this stud, but I love chrome. And you're welcome let us know when you have set your heart on the sire


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

SnowCowgirl said:


> also, NBEventer, what sort of soundness issues out of curiosity?
> 
> I guess this is why it's so important to learn about offspring too... because, honestly, looking at GG and then at Goldmaker, (and with my amateur eye), I would think that Goldmaker has better conformation. What am I missing??


He seems to pass nevicular issues on and bad feet in what I have seen. Other then that I am not a fan of stallions that are bred to everything with a uterus. To me that shows that the stallion owner does not care about the quality that her stallion produces. 

I know this is a horse you plan on keeping but you need to think of the "what if" type of situations. You never know what could happen in life that would cause you to have to sell. So you want a foal that is going to be easy to rehome. A GG baby is a dime a dozen. So a GG baby out of a grade mare is going to make it even harder.

Also I honestly think Goldmaker has a nicer conformation then GG. 

I also agree with breeding to something a bit lighter, though with a nice big butt. Check out Avalon, she has a nice variety of stallions. I think an Irish Drought stallion is a bit to heavy.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I like Goldmaker and Edward Scissorhands at Avalon. They have some drool worthy stallions that is for sue!


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I just need to say I am super paranoid now that GG's owner is going to show up. Threads with discussion about her horses and breeding practises tend to summon her like saying bloody mary three times :hide:


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If its the truth though what can she do other than have one of her infamous tantrums?


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> If its the truth though what can she do other than have one of her infamous tantrums?


Well I am bored at work as things have died down. So hey let her come have one of her tantrums. I could use the entertainment lol. 

I am surprised she isn't here yet with her groupies. She is on every other horse forum out there.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Yikes, I bet that was something she didn't expect to get out. Is that why he doesn't show/ride/or anything else?


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

MsBHavin said:


> Yikes, I bet that was something she didn't expect to get out. Is that why he doesn't show/ride/or anything else?


I honestly believe it is. He hasn't been out to do anything. Which makes me shake my head even more. Why breed to a stallion that has no "resume"? Same with the other stallion she had a couple years ago. I can't remember his name now, started with a P. Was some big flashy TB with chrome. 

Regardless. A stallion owner that will breed their stud to anything with a uterus turns me away. I don't want a foal from a stud that has thousands of other foals. I want a stud that is bred selectivly as it increases the value and is just much more impressive.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

MsBHavin said:


> Yikes, I bet that was something she didn't expect to get out. Is that why he doesn't show/ride/or anything else?


That is my major gripe about GG. He has no show record to speak of, yet is advertised to sire winners in every ring - eeeeexcept that his offspring aren't doing so hot either. 
I, too, dislike that he is bred to anything with a uterus. He does not have great conformation (not horrible, but not great) - really if he were a different colour I think he'd be skipped over. 

Just my two cents, for what it's worth. 

I've heard that A Fine Romance has produced some fantastic offspring. I will pop on my laptop later if I have time and do some searching around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I think that if you are breeding for a certain discipline and wish to be competitve in it, then breeding to a stud with a show record or "resume" is crucial.

However, not everyone breeds for that reason. I want something with athletic ability because I DO show... but I show all-around, from western rail classes to hunter, gymkhana to show jumping, with a bit of dressage and reining thrown in. At the level we compete at, River and I have brought in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place ribbonsn in several disciplines.... but for me, to breed to one of the top jumping stallions in the country would be a bit silly, as I'll then want to turn around and maybe do some reining. A very highly trained dressage stallion is an incredible creature, but who knows what the offspring is going to do when carrying a pack full of caribou meat off a mountain? I don't want to just breed to the stud down the street (because, here, that means I have to choose between a very stocky paint, a completely unshown paint with no special pedigree, a QH, a gypsy vanner, or a QH/Draft/Morgan).

Also, for those worried about re-sale value if I were ever to sell - I have one person lined up who wants a River baby someday (my mother, who also owned River's dam), and have had interest expressed by other people. Value in horses here is not just placed on show horses, but in those who are able to do a days work and a variety of different tasks. Additionally, registration is not, from what I've seen, a huge deal in my area. For example, we sold just sold three grade (breeds unknown) horses. Two are only broke to pack. The cheapest sold for $1000, and the last one left the property after being listed for only three weeks. 

Because I do so many different things with my horses I think it's just as appropriate to choose an athletic, conformationally sound stallion even if he DOESN'T have an impressive show record. Because I don't intend to show at much higher levels. I want a horse with the athletic ability to go there if I ever so choose, but more than anything I want a sound baby who will be able to do everything I've used River for... just with hopefully a bit lighter build, some extra height, and a little more athleticism. Because River is a grade, ANY breeding will be a gamble.

These reasons are why I'm so leaning toward the TB side of things - I think River will add the substance and grit, and ideally the TB will add the height, athleticism, and lighten the foal up a bit. But, I need a stud with a good butt and (ideally) a neck to compliment River's short, thick one. 

That said, to think that maybe a stud doesnt show because of a HEALTH issue?? - that's scary. But, additionally (regarding GG) it's just speculation. No one has much proof, unfortunately. Most people in this thread sound like they don't like GG almost completely due to his owner and lack of show record. I'm not ignoring the advice though, just so everyone is aware! I guess some sort of show record could be important if only for that reason... but who is to say a stud didn't show, succeed, and then break down for whatever reason before becoming a breeding stallion?

This has been a super helpful thread everyone, thanks!

A Fine Romance is sure a gorgeous guy, thanks for the link


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

just because I am interested, could someone tell me what they see wrong in GG's confo? I only ask because he particularly stood out as a stud who could compliment River's faults.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I think you are missing the point. 

Life happens, what if something happened that your Mom couldn't take the foal? Its not just about having an impressive show record. Its about having something to back it up. GG brings nothing to the table. He passes on soundness issues, his owner is not reliable and can be very shady to work with. There is a reason a mass amount of people are not a fan of her stallion OR her. I am putting aside my feelings about his owner because I personally have not had issues but I am very involved in the sport horse world and have heard more bad things then good things about the stallion, his offspring and his owner. 

As for conformation I find him a bit downhill, he looks a bit behind at the knee to me, short in the back, very on the forehand in his movement, I don't think his hind end would compliment your mare well at all. Lets be realistic for a minute here. Your mare has a lot of conformation flaws. Her back end is a mess and GGs back end is not strong enough to have a chance to help correct that. And I don't find his foals to have the best hind ends either. 

I really think you should look into Three Cups Apple Jack. He has a lot of strong points, produces results and amazing amateur friendly offspring. 

A GG baby crossed with your mare is not going to be a foal that will have a chance of a good resale value. And I am not talking about papers. I am talking about flat out do not compliment each other. If GG didn't have colour, he would be a gelding. Plain and simple. You need to look at a stallion as if it were a gelding and go "is this gelding(horse) of value to an already hard up market?"


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

NBEventer said:


> *I think you are missing the point.*
> 
> *Life happens, what if something happened that your Mom couldn't take the foal? Its not just about having an impressive show record. Its about having something to back it up. GG brings nothing to the table. He passes on soundness issues, his owner is not reliable and can be very shady to work with. There is a reason a mass amount of people are not a fan of her stallion OR her. I am putting aside my feelings about his owner because I personally have not had issues but I am very involved in the sport horse world and have heard more bad things then good things about the stallion, his offspring and his owner.*


I do see the point, though I did think you were pushing the fact that the stud needs to have a record for the foal to have re-sale value. Where I live, there is NOT a large horse community or a very large amount of horses for sale. Practically any horse *can* be sold, I am not particularly worried about resale especially given the interest I have received in River over the years.

The soundness issues should be enough to scare anyone away!



NBEventer said:


> * As for conformation I find him a bit downhill, he looks a bit behind at the knee to me, short in the back, very on the forehand in his movement, I don't think his hind end would compliment your mare well at all. Lets be realistic for a minute here. Your mare has a lot of conformation flaws. Her back end is a mess and GGs back end is not strong enough to have a chance to help correct that. And I don't find his foals to have the best hind ends either.*


If you are going to comment on my mare's conformation I'd love a bit more of an elaboration than that "her hind end is a mess", please. I am attempting to find a stud who will compliment her. From what others have said, her hind end is light in comparison and she is a bit cowhocked. However, from everything I've always been told and learned, cowhocked (if it's not terrible) often does not hamper a horses' athletic movement THAT much. Am I wrong? As stated before, she has never had a soundness issue in her life, and she's had many hard days work packing and riding. I originally looked to GG because someone said that he generally passed on a good hind end. It's great to hear from someone who has dealt with his offspring, so thanks for that. 

I will look into that other stud, thanks for the tip! Though when I looked last night I believe the site said he was only available for live cover, I will check again.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

How about this guy...




 
His stud fee is only $1,700

Or this guy is nice too

Romantic Star Elite Class I Hanoverian Stallion - YouTube

Only $1,300 for his stud fee. Both nice looking horses.


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## beju22 (Nov 10, 2012)

Your better off breeding to el dorado. He will produce a longer neck on your foal than the other stallions can offer and a higher tail set than your mare. When choosing a stallion you need to look at the flaws of your mare and how to improve them. Meaning find a stallion that fixs what you want improved in your mare. Your if you want indurance, long legs,long neck, small bone, light frame, good chest.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

beju22 said:


> Your better off breeding to el dorado. He will produce a longer neck on your foal than the other stallions can offer and a higher tail set than your mare.


the problem I saw in El Dorado was one that others noted too - not such a great hindquarter. Also, I don't believe they do a LFG which is definitely something I'm looking for.

Inga, thanks for the links! I know nothing about Hanoverians but will look into it for sure... what gorgeous boys, wow.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I LOVE Redwine! He is such a beautiful horse and one I would drool over as a gelding as well. I had forgotten about him. I have already booked my mare with a stallion and this will be her last foal but if I could get another one I would seriously consider Redwine.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

he really is stunning... wow. I was trying to draw the line on stud fees at $1300 max haha. Geeeeeeez


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Whats a few extra dollars ;-)


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

You would bash GG's owner but yet you would even CONSIDER breeding to Redwine?!?

Apparently, you folks need to do some SERIOUS research. Talk about a nightmare of a stallion owner! Really, do some research!! NOW! Before anyone else has to deal with the heartache that seemingly HUNDREDS of people have dealt with. 

If I could post direct links I would, but it really is all "out there" for those who want the info. Just google "Jill Burnell BEWARE" or "Redwine semen lab". Seriously. EVERYONE should look into it.

Again, I am not a "GG owner" groupie, not in the least. She and I have had our disagreements over the years, for sure. But I do know several people who have bred to GG, and they all have have very good experiences. I have personally worked with (and even owned), GG offspring. I will leave it at that and think that unless you are prepared to back up claims of crazy with EVIDENCE then it's better left unsaid. 

So, maybe you guys should check out the PAGES and PAGES of real evidence against a truly horrible stallion owner before you bash one and recommend another.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

he's added to the (constantly changing) list for further investigation.

most people I know would laugh to hear I'm considering Hanoverians or even TB's, haha. I can just hear my dad and people I've worked horses on the trail for bugging me about it 


Edited to add: Who KNEW there could be so much drama involved in breeding???? Maybe I SHOULD just stick to the stud-next-door (just kidding... but wow, ugh)


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Joie said:


> You would bash GG's owner but yet you would even CONSIDER breeding to Redwine?!?
> 
> Apparently, you folks need to do some SERIOUS research. Talk about a nightmare of a stallion owner! Really, do some research!! NOW! Before anyone else has to deal with the heartache that seemingly HUNDREDS of people have dealt with.
> 
> ...


My GG opinion is backed with personal experience directly with his offspring and with the mare owners.

As for Redwine I honestly never really had done more then look at pictures and video, which is why I said I would _consider_ him. Which means doing research. He is a beautiful horse. However I have never looked beyond just looking at him. Though from what I have known about him, he doesn't really produce what I look for, an eventer 

Thankfully I don't have to worry about digging through millions of stories. I am breeding to a local stallion whos owner I know well and I have ridden his dam. I am very grateful I don't have to go through the hours of endless constantly changing mind numbing rip your hair out research the OP is dealing with.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I just got back to this thread and was going to say, Redwine is beautiful, but I would be extremely wary of breeding to him under current ownership from what I've read.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Inga said:


> How about this guy...
> Redwine black Hanoverian stallion dressage in germany - YouTube
> 
> His stud fee is only $1,700
> ...


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn that I've heard some really iffy things about Redwine's owner's breeding practices... I believe Piaffe would have more information...


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn that I've heard some really iffy things about Redwine's owner's breeding practices... I believe Piaffe would have more information...


Yup, so did I......:-(


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

how the heck do you go about finding out all these things about studs/owners? 

I guess the only thing I can do is post, asking for opinions from forums such as this??


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Lots and lots of google and being on forums :lol:


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm going to have 500 hours into this baby when and if he/she ever gets here! haha!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

GG is downhill, doesn't have a great shoulder, has a weaker hind end, and his stifle isn't placed ideally for a jumper. If he were a chestnut, I'd almost guarantee (ha) that he'd be passed right over. His movement is average - his trot is small and daisy-cutter, and his canter is 'eh.' His jump is flat and he is quite heavy through the front end, seeming to dive with his front end over the fences.
My gripe comes from his owner's practices. She will breed him to any mare owner that will pay his fee, but does nothing to improve him. He hasn't shown in anything noteworthy in any discipline, yet she promotes him as a great stud for almost any discipline. Even the videos are from when he was 4 years old... no recent ones. IMO a breeder should want to advance their stallion and make him even better. Neither stallion has any recent riding photos or videos, which is frustrating, because they *could* be something more than just breeding stallions, at least in some way. 
Anyways. That's my gripe o' the night.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

thanks everyone who critiqued confo. I need some really good resources for learning how to pick out faults.. it also doesn't really help that some things vary from breed to breed, but I really do need to learn more. I sure didn't pick out him as having a "weak" hind end... and to me, GoldMaker (the Avalon stud) looks off... not sure why, and someone did say they thought they had nice conformation so I guess I just dont know what I'm looking for lol


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Redwine is EVA positive, so even if he changed owners I'd still pass him up


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> GG is downhill, doesn't have a great shoulder, has a weaker hind end, and his stifle isn't placed ideally for a jumper. If he were a chestnut, I'd almost guarantee (ha) that he'd be passed right over. His movement is average - his trot is small and daisy-cutter, and his canter is 'eh.' His jump is flat and he is quite heavy through the front end, seeming to dive with his front end over the fences.
> My gripe comes from his owner's practices. She will breed him to any mare owner that will pay his fee, but does nothing to improve him. He hasn't shown in anything noteworthy in any discipline, yet she promotes him as a great stud for almost any discipline. Even the videos are from when he was 4 years old... no recent ones. IMO a breeder should want to advance their stallion and make him even better. Neither stallion has any recent riding photos or videos, which is frustrating, because they *could* be something more than just breeding stallions, at least in some way.
> Anyways. That's my gripe o' the night.



^^^^^ What she said. I was starting to think I was losing it like "am I wrong? Are these flaws that only I can see?" lol

And I was bored enough while waiting for DH's delayed flight home that I went digging through Redwine. The drama around that horse is all kinds of crazy and brings a whole new meaning to the term crazy stallion owner :shock:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn that I've heard some really iffy things about Redwine's owner's breeding practices... I believe Piaffe would have more information...


 I do remember the problems she had a while back purchasing her mare in foal to Redwine. If you dig up her old breeding threads you could probably find it.


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

I don't like Three Cups Apple Jack, his neck looks short from what I can see, and I cannot find any conformation shots of him whatsoever. Mind you I am biased, for me to go "WOW" over anything with color, it hasto be exceptional.

Breeding in my books should be: temperment > conformation > color. Too many people breed fro the "zomg purty colors poneh" these days.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Fahntasia said:


> Too many people breed fro the "zomg purty colors poneh" these days.


yep and they are a dime a dozen! Buckskins buckskins everywhere. Palominos too. Spots, patches, roan, blah. I would LOVE a black blanket spotted warmblood [knabstrupper anyone??] but if we sacrifice temperament, conformation and soundness for colour... well... the outcome sure ain't pretty!

We have a buckskin. Her dam is a black part Arab [no idea if registered or not] and her sire is a buckskin grade god-knows-what. She was bred for temperament, and it's not a cross I would personally do myself [though her sire is quite lovely - just lacking a little bit of hind end - and her dam is stunning, I don't think they quite compliment each other] but she certainly worked out ok. Short, but strong and tough, with a fantastic temperament.

There is ONE double dilute stallion I actually like and he's all of 11.2hh, an absolute stunner himself, and has consistently sired some incredible get.

Breeding for colour is a bad move... so you're using common sense and looking to improve upon your mare, fantastic, best of luck to you - but look critically at everything as if it was just a plain old boring chestnut or bay. [although I personally adore chestnuts so for me bay is a better move!]

As someone else said, don't breed until you find the stallion you take one look at and think, YES, he is it. I am insanely particular so while I spend a good amount of time looking, thinking, dreaming... I have come across TWO studs I would seriously consider breeding to, and of those, neither is a certainty on the 'to-breed-to' list.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

ummmmmmmm.... DROOL. I finally took a proper look at this guy.

Edward Scissorhands d'Avalon - Avalon Equine

What do y'all think?

Honestly, I am looking hard at Goldmaker too... but he is definitely over at the knee, is he not? and I feel like his hind end is weird...


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Or....
(not the hugest fan of tobianos, but

boulderridgeranch.com/sota.cfm

http://www.silverwoodfarm.com/sempatico.html

Originally stumbled upon them because I'd heard of Art Deco
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

SnowCowgirl said:


> ummmmmmmm.... DROOL. I finally took a proper look at this guy.
> 
> Edward Scissorhands d'Avalon - Avalon Equine
> 
> ...


ES.. very attractive right off the bat, but then I look at him a bit more and I'm not head over heels for him. I am a big eye/face person.. I really don't like his eye/forehead - and that, to me, tells a lot about a horse's personality. 
He's a tad downhill. His front legs are a bit on the stocky side, I'm not a fan of his neck (a bit over muscled underneath), and his pelvis angle is a bit long. 
I think you could do better... he's cute, for sure, but I'm not a *huge* fan..


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah... rather bad hindquarter on Edward Scissorhands. I agree completely with JDI, keep looking. Although I disagree on the eye/face thing, I quite like his head.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Fahntasia said:


> I don't like Three Cups Apple Jack, his neck looks short from what I can see, and I cannot find any conformation shots of him whatsoever. Mind you I am biased, for me to go "WOW" over anything with color, it hasto be exceptional.
> 
> Breeding in my books should be: temperment > conformation > color. Too many people breed fro the "zomg purty colors poneh" these days.


Yep breeding for colour drives me crazy. My mare is bay, the stallion I have picked is bay. Everyone keeps going "well you are going to end up with a boring bay horse". I look at them and explain I could care less if the horse is purple. I am breeding for conformation, brains/temperment and athletic ability. Colour is the last thing I could care about.

The reason I mentioned Three Cups Apple Jack is because the OP seemed to want colour. As far as colour goes I find him to be one of the better stallions with colour. I know the stallion and know his offspring. I agree he doesn't have flawless conformation but I find it hard to find a nice warmblood or TB with colour. So I figured might as well suggest one that I know throws good mind and ability. I am going to see if I can find a good picture of him. He isn't advertised much at all it seems.


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> Yeah... rather bad hindquarter on Edward Scissorhands.


 
I don't get how looking at a few pictures would determine that he has a "rather bad" hindquarter. Are you saying that a horse with a rather bad hindquarter is going to successfully meet approval requirements AND be successful at the 70 day test? I wonder what all of those _professionals_ were thinking as they evaluated him. :think:


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

Ok, so based on opinions on here of hindquarters, how would you evaluate this guy?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Since you seem to be looking at more Warmbloods, I thought I'd put my favorite Hanoverian stallion up here for you to consider.

Hanoverian stallion, hunter stallion USA, Canada | Laprise Stables


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Joie said:


> I don't get how looking at a few pictures would determine that he has a "rather bad" hindquarter. Are you saying that a horse with a rather bad hindquarter is going to successfully meet approval requirements AND be successful at the 70 day test? I wonder what all of those _professionals_ were thinking as they evaluated him. :think:


That hip is inadequate, and the angle of it is... not ideal. Far too steep. Wee bit straight through the stifle too, increasing the risk of locking stifles, and something about his hocks isn't quite right to me. I am incredibly particular when it comes to hindquarters and hind legs, being that they are the source of all the power of the horse, and yes there are plenty of stallions that have been successful at the 70 day test that do not have great hindquarters. For a breeding stallion I expect better. Maybe that's just me?

The grey has reasonable angles [taking into account that he is not square] but the hindquarter itself is small in comparison to the shoulder. I would like to see a slightly smoother coupling and lower hocks. He is very leggy and looks athletic but is front-heavy so doesn't scream jumper [or dressage] to me.

That all being said, one look at Hickstead will tell you conformation is not everything. If the stallions in question are extremely successful in their discipline, especially if it is jumping [as jump has over the years proven more heritable than movement/dressage talent], that does excuse conformation flaws - but ONLY when the mare in question is strong where the stallion is not, and the stallion is strong where the mare is not.

My gelding for example has a dreadful hind end and extremely long back, less than ideal shoulder, long cannons, and very upright pasterns, but in his younger days was a successful 4' jumper, if what I have been told is accurate, and is well and truly sound enough that if I was a bit braver he could go back to that level of competition. He could even have gone higher, I think, had he been given the chance. Heart makes up for a lot.

There are VERY FEW stallions in the world that I would breed to... IMO if 90% of the stallion population was gelded the world would be no worse off. Of the stallions on my 'to-breed-to' list, only one has a semen fee of less than $2000 per straw [plus AI costs], and HE happens to be on the list purely because I am in love with his personality and presence [I know him, he is a 100% Crabbet bred Arabian stallion that belongs to a friend and has the best hind end I have EVER seen on an Arabian] and he would cross well over my mare for an Anglo Arabian foal, which would not result in a top-level jumper or eventer but WOULD result in a rather handy show horse/allrounder.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Joie said:


> I don't get how looking at a few pictures would determine that he has a "rather bad" hindquarter. Are you saying that a horse with a rather bad hindquarter is going to successfully meet approval requirements AND be successful at the 70 day test? I wonder what all of those _professionals_ were thinking as they evaluated him. :think:


On the topic of approval, Three Cups Apple Jack went through testing in Canada to be approved with Canadian Sport Horse Association. He scored really actually.


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

Bosch Blue is a jumper:


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

NBEventer said:


> On the topic of approval, Three Cups Apple Jack went through testing in Canada to be approved with Canadian Sport Horse Association. He scored really actually.


That is supposed to be really *well* actually. I Missed a word :lol:


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

so WHO do you recommend, for a good hindquarter then? seems like everything I think has a good butt, doesn't. lol. I would love colour, but it is not the #1 priority. I was trying to find something GOOD with colour, but it doesn't seem possible haha, so I'm open 

Any thoughts on the second stud I posted? (the pinto?)


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Joie, I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to get at here, could you please enlighten me? 

For what it's worth, free jumping means relatively little... some horses can free-jump the moon and not go well under saddle, others can't even stumble through the chute and yet perform very well under saddle.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Im gonna sub to this. Im not help at all, but im enjoying reading this. OP i wish you luck!


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

^^^thanks, I need it!!!!!

How's about some of you recommend a good stud or two then - something with a great butt, a longer neck, and a stud fee under $1500 lol. 

I don't need a jumper. I need a sound, athletic, all around horse with some athletic ability for a large variety of think


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

SnowCowgirl said:


> so WHO do you recommend, for a good hindquarter then?


Off the top of my head, I don't know American stallions very well at all, so any suggestions I have are not great practically.

My mare has a reasonably good hind end, I would still like a little more depth of hip and her lumbar-sacral joint is a bit far back but the angles are reasonable [excuse the apparent straightness of the stifle in this pic, it's because her leg is forward]. Don't mind her coat, it's an old picture from the springtime smack in the middle of her moth-eaten stage.

Everyone else, feel free to pick her apart, it there's something I'm not seeing [HIND END ONLY please, that's a bad shot to judge her front end and overall balance is going to be a bit out because she's only a baby, nearly 27 months old]

edit; attached pic instead as original is massive!

Edited again; the slight swelling at and below her stifle there is gone now and was due to a joint issue which has since cleared up.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Another stallion I like is
http://www.ironspringfarm.com/display/horse_files/UB40_LR2011.pdf

and also
http://www.ironspringfarm.com/display/horse_files/riverman.pdf

They are both at your max but nice horses. $1,500 stud fee.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Are you open to any breed?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I really like the look of Color Guard. He's a young, up and coming stallion who I will be keeping my eye on: COLOR GUARD Reg. ECLIPSED BY COLOR Stallion Katriina Ruotsalo : 2010 International Stallion Guide for Sport Horses

Gah. I swear I've been searching for the past half hour to find the stallion I really want to post... but I cannot remember his name for the life of me. He's a dark bay with lots of chrome, young up and coming stallion and I want to say that he's by Baloubet du Rouet but I could very well be wrong. I believe his name starts with a B... but I can't be sure. I know it will come to me at a very random moment...


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Hailey1203 said:


> Are you open to any breed?


I'm open to any lighter, athletic breed who will hopefully throw a bit of height as well. River is only around 15hh


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

to those who just posted studs - thanks a ton! I'm at work right now and need to get some stuff done for a bit, but will look after. 

I really appreciate it. I'm going to create a list of "likes" and then make another thread in a couple days lol. Can't believe this one is at 11 pages!


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

What about Ironman? www.ironmanonline.com 

I personally have not worked with any of his offspring though I have heard good things about him.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

NBEventer said:


> What about Ironman? www.ironmanonline.com
> 
> I personally have not worked with any of his offspring though I have heard good things about him.


Those hocks :shock: :shock: almost no bend in them! And I thought my gelding was bad.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

SnowCowgirl said:


> I'm open to any lighter, athletic breed who will hopefully throw a bit of height as well. River is only around 15hh


 UB40 and Riverman are each around 16.2 hands. That should add some height. Redwine is 16.1 I have never bred a horse to Redwine so... don't know about all the hype so I did a search. It seemed there were more happy people then unhappy but I tend to lean away from drama when possible. That said, I have LOVED many of his babies.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Color & height  Karma Ridge Stables - A SPECTACULAR FLASH APHA# 498448(Spectacular One X Lance's Flash Back)16.2 hh Black & White Tobiano Stallion*Pedigree*
https://www.facebook.com/ASpectacularFlash


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

blue eyed pony said:


> Those hocks :shock: :shock: almost no bend in them! And I thought my gelding was bad.


Oh wow... thats what I get for not looking close before posting :shock: I had just heard his name thrown around before about him having nice babies. Yikes! *hangs head in shame at missing a very obvious hind end flaw*


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Okay... so I just spent some time checking him out some more. I honestly think Ironman is a really nice quality stallion. If you look at his offspring and even his resume and offspring resumes, he passes on nice conformation, nice temperment and quality. Taking into consideration he is 20 years old in that picture and campaigned hard. 

I actually really like him.


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

Inga said:


> don't know about all the hype so I did a search. It seemed there were more happy people then unhappy but I tend to lean away from drama when possible.


It isn't hype. It is fact. No one said the babies aren't nice, and the horse is _very_ nice. Did you visit COTH at all? Did you see the photos of the lab that she was shipping semen out of? There are probably many more people who haven't told their personal stories...and I know this because I am one of them. I got scammed by her years ago, right after Redwine was imported. I was too embarrassed to pursue it, thinking it was ONLY me. Several times over the last few years I have cringed when I saw news about her or the horse, and I even tried several times to contact her unsuccessfully to have my contract fulfilled. As the facts started coming to light that I was just one of MANY people to be scammed lied to, or otherwise treated poorly, I have some peace in knowing that I wasn't the only one. However, it makes me sick to hear about all of the unregisterable foals, unfulfilled contracts and other madness that has transpired over the years. It really is a nightmare and I pity anyone who walks into that unaware, which is why I think it is important to discuss it, just as it is important for people to give their PERSONAL experiences with other stallion owners and she they can go in with their eyes open.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Decent hind on the Paint, can't see too much with the photos but he looks reasonable behind. He's a teeny bit downhill but most stock types are [Western level and English level are two totally different things - a Western horse is level when its withers and croup are the same height, an English horse is level when its balance is level from point of buttock to root of neck - and I am an English rider so I look for English level], just a tad long in the back.

As I am an English rider and he is a Western type horse, he wouldn't be MY first choice, but I wouldn't pass judgment on his value as a stud. I think he looks nice but I'm not a Western horse expert or anything.

I do wonder if maybe he is a frame carrier because of the way his body white wants to extend horizontally along his barrel. Tobiano on its own typically does not present that way.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Here are my top picks....

www.guadaneroat.com, Revised PRE Breeding Stallion, Ontario, Canada,

Night-Of-Echos

Shining Mountain Thoroughbreds

Hillside Farm's Stallions Skeptic and Timely Roberto (either of these two. I prefer the chestnut)

Breeding Services

4X World Champion Tri-Mi Boot Scootin' Boogie

Sorry about how many there are... its a slow day at work.

Opinions?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Longevity is one of the biggest assets in a horse - something that is campaigned hard at a high level long-term has proven that it can stay sound. The hocks still scare me but if he is sound at 20 after a long and busy show career then excellent, you know he himself is a good sturdy using horse. Soundness can be heritable. Australian Thoroughbred lovers might be familiar with Pago Mystery? HIS get are known for having shocking conformation, but being tough, sound and gutsy with a huge amount of try in them. If I know a bloodline is likely to be sounder than another, I'm more likely to buy a horse of that bloodline than the other. We often hear about soundness PROBLEMS being passed down bloodlines, so why couldn't a lack of them? No reason - we just don't hear about it because nobody really makes a note of how many offspring are sound. We only pay attention when a horse's get are consistently UNsound in some way.

Heck my filly is technically fairly correct in her hind end and at TWO YEARS OLD she has already suffered joint issues in both stifles. Correctness is not everything.

I know nothing about any of the stallions that have been posted in this thread except Redwine's owner's reputation, and a little bit about Guaranteed Gold. So my comments are based on what I see in front of me, and if Ironman was a five or six year old I wouldn't take a second look, but as a twenty year old and still sound? Certainly I would consider breeding to him [for a using horse... not so much a top competitor because as I said those hocks are a little frightening and theoretically should limit scope], except for the fact that he's grey and I hate them so won't risk the chance of ending up with a grey foal.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

blue eyed pony said:


> Longevity is one of the biggest assets in a horse - something that is campaigned hard at a high level long-term has proven that it can stay sound. The hocks still scare me but if he is sound at 20 after a long and busy show career then excellent, you know he himself is a good sturdy using horse.
> 
> Heck my filly is technically fairly correct in her hind end and at TWO YEARS OLD she has already suffered joint issues in both stifles. Correctness is not everything.
> 
> I know nothing about any of the stallions that have been posted in this thread except Redwine's owner's reputation, and a little bit about Guaranteed Gold. So my comments are based on what I see in front of me, and if Ironman was a five or six year old I wouldn't take a second look, but as a twenty year old and still sound? Certainly I would consider breeding to him, except for the fact that he's grey and I hate them so won't risk the chance of ending up with a grey foal.



From what I know he is still sound. He seems to have a long show carreer under him in the GP ring. Which leads one to think he is still sound. 

I love greys, however I would be checking to make sure he is negative for OWL.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I REMEMBERED HIS NAME!!!

Banderas:

Banderas - (Balou du Rouet x Grannus x Beach Boy) - 2006 Bay Oldenburg Stallion - Dreamscape Farm, Langley, BC, Canada

I'm in love with this stallion, and I'm very excited to see how he does in his career.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> I REMEMBERED HIS NAME!!!
> 
> Banderas:
> 
> ...


 I love him, JDI!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Banderas is rather yummy. I wish he had a bit more gaskin to him but that's just me being nitpicky. Oh if only he was in Australia, not Canada... he and my mare would cross so nicely... I noticed they do AI but no mention of frozen, only fresh and chilled.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I reaaaaaally don't think Ironman does a whole lot for River. He looks just as heavy as she does! He's built like a lot of the working horses standing out in the field at my Dad's right now haha.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

ETA: oops... replied to wrong post.

Can anyone give opinions on the pinto Oldenburg I posted on previous page?:

http://www.silverwoodfarm.com/sempatico.html


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Inga said:


> Alright so... I am going to just state the obvious here. If you are thinking of spending $1,200 or so on a stud fee, add in mare care for a year and then at the very minimum 2-3 years before you can do anything with the baby. You have quite an investment on a horse that won't even be registered. Now, I know registration doesn't mean anything to some owners and it certainly isn't everything but... Seems like you could buy quite a nice foal for what you will have invested without the risk of pregnancy and waiting to see what you get. Also, won't have to wait the extra time before working with them. Just food for thought.
> 
> I guess... If it were me I would buy rather then breed this mare. If I for some reason HAD to breed her, I would stick with an Arab for the 1/2 Arab registration. In large part, I wouldn't breed simply for the risk to the mare when there are so many foals already out there that I could buy. It is afterall a buyers market right now.


Agree alot with this. You have a pretty nice mare,but bottom line she is unregistered & depending on what stud you would pick chances are the foal will not be eligible for any registry either.I myself ,can't see paying a $1500 stud fee plus vet fees to AI {upward of a minimum of $500}:shock:.Stud fee is often the least of it, it is the vet & shipping that can really add up,you pray you mare cycles good,semen is good,plus arrives when you need & you have a competent vet that gets the timing right. You could easily spend close to $3000 for a foal from a maiden mare that you don't even know how it may come out mixing a few breeds.I have done AI breeding & it can really be a crapshoot of how smoothly things can go or not:wink:.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I get it, and appreciate your opinion but believe me (and as previously stated several times), I'm far past considering whether or not to breed her. At this point, I am looking for the best stud options.

ETA:

eeeeeeeeee heard back from Avalon Equine!


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## TamarackLane (May 6, 2011)

NBEventer said:


> If you are not stuck on colour I am a fan of A Fine Romance. He produces quality offspring that have gone on to do big and great things. They have a nice mind and very athletic. He passes on great traits to his foals. Another bonus is I have found his owner to be very honest about what crosses well with "Fred" and she is always up for recommending other stallions if she doesn't think hers will cross well with your mare.


Hello! I don't visit here much, but was notified that AFR was being mentioned.
Thank you very much for the kind words about A Fine Romance NBE. 
He is indeed a proven stallion, with an outstanding TB performance pedigree, a performance record of his own, and most importantly, a consistent sire of beautiful, sane, sound, athletes. 
Some of his offspring are competing at high levels in the jumper ring (including a winning GP Jumper, a homebred of mine), hunter ring and in eventing. 
He is also the grandsire of a dressage competitor at the last PanAm games.
Many of this offspring are also ridden, happily, by children and amateur riders.
Due to his consistent record as a sire, he is already booked full for 2013. 

OP, I really like your mare, I think she is lovely - and with the right stallion you should have a nice foal.


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## TamarackLane (May 6, 2011)

Speaking of stallion owners, you really can not go wrong with Kathy St Martin (Avalon Equine), Jennifer at Dreamscape Farm in BC, Nancy Maloney (Iron Man) and Ronda at Rising Star Farm.

I love Ironman, and know that he is a reliable sire of very good tempered athletic babies. If you want something lighter, Nancy also has a lovely son of his who is 1/2 TB.

I'm not sure if you are in Canada, but if you are, one thing you will need to be aware of is CEM restrictions on semen coming into Canada.
Some stallion owners in the US are not prepared/able to do the extra paperwork that needs ot be done, and may not ship to Canada.

Jennifer at Dreamscape in BC has a number of outstanding stallions and she can give you good/honest advice about which ones might suit your mare best.
She has the lovely Banderas mentioned earlier, as well as the very fancy Bon Balou and others.

Other things to be aware of is 'the small print'. Many stallions have an advertised stud fee, and then there is the 'booking fee' (usually non-refundable) and on top of that the collection fees.
Some stallion owners include the booking fee and the first collection in the fee.
Collection fees also vary, so that is also something to check BEFORE you sign the contract.

My advice is to start making your list, contact the stallion owners, and talk to them. They may have some special offers in place (I know Kathy St Martin does!) The stallion service auctions are also coming up, and great bargains are to be had.

Something else to think about (I hope you don't mind my suggestions) is since I think you said you are fairly remote, is to check the FedEx delivery in your area, and also the nearest airport, in case you need the semen sent counter to counter.

My advice is always to try to find the stallion who best suits your mare, and your requirements/hopes for the foal - to put conformation, athleticism and good temperament first. 
If the stallions are too young to have offspring showing, that should be taken into consideration.
But if the stallion is older, and has numerous offspring over the age of 7 or older, I would want to see consistent offspring in the showring, and mare owners should be provided verifiable evidence of that.
It is one thing to _say_ that "offspring excell in all disciplines" or some such, but it is another for them to actually be doing it.
If they are NOT showing successfully that should raise some questions.


Lots of things to consider, but you have plenty of time.
Very best of luck!


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

TamarackLane said:


> Hello! I don't visit here much, but was notified that AFR was being mentioned.
> Thank you very much for the kind words about A Fine Romance NBE.
> He is indeed a proven stallion, with an outstanding TB performance pedigree, a performance record of his own, and most importantly, a consistent sire of beautiful, sane, sound, athletes.
> Some of his offspring are competing at high levels in the jumper ring (including a winning GP Jumper, a homebred of mine), hunter ring and in eventing.
> ...


I can't say enough wonderful things about Fred and yourself. You and I talked heavily about my mare previously and you actually pointed me to Nancy. I still am chasing dreams of breeding to Fred when the timing is right. Glad to see you over here! You should hang out more


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Centaur Farms Full Service Stallion Station and Dressage Facility Standing 6 Warmblood Stallions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-iiqAjaeix8


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I've been working on a to-do list of stallions to look into more. Once I have my "wish list", I will definitely talk to each stallion owner and narrow down my list from there.

TamarackLane, thank you for all of the information!! I haven't looked into your stallion, and really did want to breed Riv this spring, but I'll look at him for sure regardless  I will also check into Ironman's son, as well as others you mentioned.

I have been in touch with Kathy at Avalon today  Anyway, she mentioned the FedEx thing too... I'm not sure about that one, but as I am in the capital city (which does have an international airport), it should be possible

Thanks so much for all the tips, I REALLY appreciate it.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

like ---- > Centaur Farms Full Service Stallion Station and Dressage Facility Standing 6 Warmblood Stallions


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Bonus!! they are having an early bird special on stud fees $500!!:shock:


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I sawwwww!!! they do that to sucker poor souls like me in, haha.

I should be made to ignore stud fees until I decide!! (I'm going to try to do that anyway).. BUT, he IS really nice I think, thoughts?


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## Blingaling (Dec 21, 2012)

SnowCowgirl said:


> like ---- > Centaur Farms Full Service Stallion Station and Dressage Facility Standing 6 Warmblood Stallions


This is my first post as I usually just lurk, but I had to say something. Even though he is black, blingy and cheap, you need to look deeper. He FAILED his 70 day test miserably by nearly 30 points BELOW the last placed horse. Oldenburg NA is the ONLY registry he is currently approved with (he is Book II RPSI which is NOT approved) which does not say much. He was also last placed in his 30 day test the year before that. I would pass on him completely. Old NA "recalculated" his scores after last year's test (which means the owner either paid them off or something else) so that they could license him. It is a complete joke. He absolutely should be a gelding.

Run fast & far away from GG as well. I would personally look for a TB for your mare, but I do find it quite comical what "faults" (that aren't there) others are "seeing" in some very, very nice approved stallions. It just says that those people really have no clue what they are looking at. 

Stallion Testing - 2011


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## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

SnowCowgirl said:


> ETA: oops... replied to wrong post.
> 
> Can anyone give opinions on the pinto Oldenburg I posted on previous page?:
> 
> Silverwood Farm's Stallions : : : Sempatico


 
I love Sempatico! His offspring are very easy to train and tend to have affectionate, puppy-dog personalities. I know quite a few of them that are successful eventers. He is a homozygous tobiano that will always produce color so I guess that's an added bonus. The owner is pleasant to work with as well.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

nobody had anything nasty or good to say about UB40? http://www.ironspringfarm.com/display/horse_files/UB40_LR2011.pdf

I was looking at one of his foals so... curious.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Inga said:


> nobody had anything nasty or good to say about UB40? http://www.ironspringfarm.com/display/horse_files/UB40_LR2011.pdf
> 
> I was looking at one of his foals so... curious.



For a dressage prospect, I would be really turned off by how much front end action he has compared to back end. He also seems to be strung out a little behind - that back weight bearing leg seems a good deal back considering how far into the stride he is. The reason I would shy away from him is because both the get they have as examples are showing the exact same thing - flashy in front, not quite right in the back.

However, I am but a novice, sharing what I see. I may be really far off with it, just my observations.


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## Bobthebuilder (Jan 8, 2012)

Time for some bias 
If you're looking for lighter bone, why not this guy?
Kambarbay Perlino Akhal Teke Eventing Stallion at Stud
Of course, not everyones cup of tea, but when (if) I breed my mare, hes definitely the stallion for her. Then again I know nothing about his progeny or personality, so feel free to ignore this post


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Bobthebuilder said:


> Time for some bias
> If you're looking for lighter bone, why not this guy?
> Kambarbay Perlino Akhal Teke Eventing Stallion at Stud
> Of course, not everyones cup of tea, but when (if) I breed my mare, hes definitely the stallion for her. Then again I know nothing about his progeny or personality, so feel free to ignore this post


Excuse me for saying so, but while we're on the topic of breeding....

How about that beautiful man in the first picture :lol::shock:


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Bobthebuilder said:


> Time for some bias
> If you're looking for lighter bone, why not this guy?
> Kambarbay Perlino Akhal Teke Eventing Stallion at Stud
> Of course, not everyones cup of tea, but when (if) I breed my mare, hes definitely the stallion for her. Then again I know nothing about his progeny or personality, so feel free to ignore this post


Hes nice, however he is in Europe and I couldn't find anything about being available for North America. I have no idea how it works from Europe but I suspect its not cheap and a bit of a pain.


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## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

Bobthebuilder said:


> Time for some bias
> If you're looking for lighter bone, why not this guy?
> Kambarbay Perlino Akhal Teke Eventing Stallion at Stud
> Of course, not everyones cup of tea, but when (if) I breed my mare, hes definitely the stallion for her. Then again I know nothing about his progeny or personality, so feel free to ignore this post


That guy is way more attractive than the horse! :razz:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Canterklutz said:


> That guy is way more attractive than the horse! :razz:


 I don't know, I think it's a toss up!


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Blingaling said:


> This is my first post as I usually just lurk, but I had to say something. Even though he is black, blingy and cheap, you need to look deeper. He FAILED his 70 day test miserably by nearly 30 points BELOW the last placed horse. Oldenburg NA is the ONLY registry he is currently approved with (he is Book II RPSI which is NOT approved) which does not say much. He was also last placed in his 30 day test the year before that. I would pass on him completely. Old NA "recalculated" his scores after last year's test (which means the owner either paid them off or something else) so that they could license him. It is a complete joke. He absolutely should be a gelding.
> 
> Run fast & far away from GG as well. I would personally look for a TB for your mare, but I do find it quite comical what "faults" (that aren't there) others are "seeing" in some very, very nice approved stallions. It just says that those people really have no clue what they are looking at.
> 
> Stallion Testing - 2011


wow! thats pretty crazy. I was searching around earlier trying to see how to find results on those tests.

Okay, one more question everyone - I'm looking hard at Goldmaker right now, and have been in touch with his owner. Do you not think that his butt is not quite ENOUGH? River is heavier in the front already, and in MY *untrained* eyes, Goldmaker doesn't have much of a butt! Also, is his throatlatch a bit thick or is that just me? (River's is, IMO)


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Hailey1203 said:


> Excuse me for saying so, but while we're on the topic of breeding....
> 
> How about that beautiful man in the first picture :lol::shock:


hahahaha!!!
I'm not able to open the page 

I did look at Akhal Teke studs before, but couldn't find anything good in Canada. maybe I should look around again.

Like I've said before, I am NOT specifially a dressage rider or jumper. The search for "athleticism" lead me to stallions who do well in those disciplines, that's all 

Any more thoughts on Sempatico, by the way, anyone? I see more of a butt... but also a longer back than Goldmaker, and one thing I'd like is a shorter back. 

UB40 is preeeeeetty wicked too!!!!


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

JustDressageIt said:


> I REMEMBERED HIS NAME!!!
> 
> Banderas:
> 
> ...


Omg! I would sooo breed my mare to him, they would cross sooooooo perfectly!!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Fahntasia said:


> Omg! I would sooo breed my mare to him, they would cross sooooooo perfectly!!


I adore Banderas. I hope one day to have a mare worthy of breeding to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Silverwood Farm's Stallions : : : State of the Art

He's in Canada! In Manitoba, where I could very well be working this summer!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Oh he's purty!


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## Blingaling (Dec 21, 2012)

Just remember that State of the Art is out of a Paint mare which that adds one more breed to the mix.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Blingaling said:


> Just remember that State of the Art is out of a Paint mare which that adds one more breed to the mix.


Yes, I know that. The website actually outlines his breeding by percentage haha.

The way I figure, I'm already gambling - River is a draft mix with some Arab thrown in, and I'm hoping to breed to a TB potentially. State of the Art is 62% TB, 37.5% warmblood, 12.5% paint, and 9.3% Quarter Horse. Definitely more breeds thrown into the mix, buuuuuut also WAY more "my type" of horse than most of the studs I've been looking at. From what I've read, his offspring have his good disposition, and have been very versatile in different disciplines... which is what I need. 

And, at the very least, the foal could be reg'd with the pinto horse association - since everyone seems so concerned with registration.

PLUS, he's in Canada. And even in the same province that I might be working in this summer.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

There was State of the Art mare at the barn I used to manage. She was beautiful but big, and she knew it, lol. She was very athletic though, they used her as a hunter and then as a broodmare. I've always liked the Art Deco line.


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## Blingaling (Dec 21, 2012)

SnowCowgirl said:


> Yes, I know that. The website actually outlines his breeding by percentage haha.
> 
> The way I figure, I'm already gambling - River is a draft mix with some Arab thrown in, and I'm hoping to breed to a TB potentially. State of the Art is 62% TB, 37.5% warmblood, 12.5% paint, and 9.3% Quarter Horse. Definitely more breeds thrown into the mix, buuuuuut also WAY more "my type" of horse than most of the studs I've been looking at. From what I've read, his offspring have his good disposition, and have been very versatile in different disciplines... which is what I need.
> 
> ...


Throwing more breeds into an already mixed pot is a BAD idea. You have no idea what is going to come through with your mare. it could be a Draft body on little Arab legs for all you know. Recipe for disaster.

The temperament of the Art Decos and descendents can be very hit or miss too.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I like the last stud. When you have a mixed breed mare already it's a gamble, I don't think it's that much more of a gamble to use a mixed breed stud as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Blingaling said:


> Throwing more breeds into an already mixed pot is a BAD idea. You have no idea what is going to come through with your mare. it could be a Draft body on little Arab legs for all you know. Recipe for disaster.
> 
> The temperament of the Art Decos and descendents can be very hit or miss too.


Really? Have you worked with some? Only asking because from what I've found online, it's pretty unanimous across the board that the foals are all very good tempered.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

anyway, I've got a list of five stallions (didn't manage to narrow it down much haha!!). I'm going to look through all of the contracts this evening, and then maybe I'll post my list  

thnx so much again everyone


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## Blingaling (Dec 21, 2012)

BlueSpark said:


> I don't think it's that much more of a gamble to use a mixed breed stud as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, one of the worst things you can do is throw another breed into an already mixed bag. Don't try to muddy the waters even more, especially given that you have no clue how this mare is going to produce. Stick to a TB, Arab or something that isn't and already unconventional cross. The mare is already unconventional enough. 



SnowCowgirl said:


> Really? Have you worked with some? Only asking because from what I've found online, it's pretty unanimous across the board that the foals are all very good tempered.


Yes, have worked with quite a few, know many more and the temperament seems to be a crapshoot. Remember that much of what you are seeing online is what the stallion owner wants to you see. That said, if SOTA's paint side comes through in the temperament department, it may be ok.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Blingaling said:


> Actually, it's one of the worst things you can do is throw another breed into an already mixed bag. Don't try to muddy the waters even more, especially given that you have no clue how this mare is going to produce.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, have worked with quite a few, know many more and the temperament seems to be a crapshoot. Remember that much of what you are seeing is what the stallion owner wants to you see. That said, if SOTA's paint side comes through in the temperament department, it may be ok.


Actually, the info I got on temperaments I gathered from forums and such. I haven't asked the stud owner anything about temperament yet. Are you saying that Warmbloods and TB's have poor temperaments? I only ask because I've genuinely only been around a few - those that I have worked around were in general fantastic, so I'm curious.

Also, don't you think that ANYTHING (besides perhaps Arab, and even then she is only 1/4) will be a crapshoot? TB, or anything else?


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## Blingaling (Dec 21, 2012)

SnowCowgirl said:


> Actually, the info I got on temperaments I gathered from forums and such. I haven't asked the stud owner anything about temperament yet.
> 
> Also, don't you think that ANYTHING (besides perhaps Arab, and even then she is only 1/4) will be a crapshoot? TB, or anything else?


Just be aware that the AD temperament isn't always good.

No, I don't think going with a TB or Arab will be a crapshoot. They don't have other breeds influencing them. A mixed mare to a mixed stallion is not going to result in a foal that is a quality individual. I know you aren't breeding for the upper levels, but even so, you should try to produce the best foal possible.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

Any of these? No idea about conformation see if the experts will help?

Ackermans Training & Breeding Center


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

SnowCowgirl said:


> Are you saying that Warmbloods and TB's have poor temperaments? I only ask because I've genuinely only been around a few - those that I have worked around were in general fantastic, so I'm curious.
> 
> Also, don't you think that ANYTHING (besides perhaps Arab, and even then she is only 1/4) will be a crapshoot? TB, or anything else?


Warmblood's and TB's are just like any other breed, there's your psychos and your nutjobs, and there's the ones with the great work ethic and beautiful minds. 

The TB and Arabian have been used to influence and improve other breeds across the board around the world. I have a TB mare, she's bay, big blaze very pretty, she has a great mind, is sharp as a tack, BUT can be lazy as all get out when she doesn't want to work. EVERY horse is different. You will know what you are getting with a purebred, they always breed true. If I were you I would either breed your mare to a TB or a nice big arabian.

You seem to be hooked on the "color" aspect of it. You do realize it's not guaranteed that the foal will have color right? I understand forever home and all that jazz, but you never know what will happen in life, focus on the right mix, not the number of spots on the studs bum....And I am not trying to be offensive or rude, just stating my opinion, I wish you the best of luck finding the right stud for your mare.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Blingaling said:


> Just be aware that the AD temperament isn't always good.
> 
> No, I don't think going with a TB or Arab will be a crapshoot. They don't have other breeds influencing them. A mixed mare to a mixed stallion is not going to result in a foal that is a quality individual. I know you aren't breeding for the upper levels, but even so, you should try to produce the best foal possible.


Okay, fair enough and thank you.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Fahntasia said:


> Warmblood's and TB's are just like any other breed, there's your psychos and your nutjobs, and there's the ones with the great work ethic and beautiful minds.
> 
> The TB and Arabian have been used to influence and improve other breeds across the board around the world. I have a TB mare, she's bay, big blaze very pretty, she has a great mind, is sharp as a tack, BUT can be lazy as all get out when she doesn't want to work. EVERY horse is different. You will know what you are getting with a purebred, they always breed true. If I were you I would either breed your mare to a TB or a nice big arabian.
> 
> You seem to be hooked on the "color" aspect of it. You do realize it's not guaranteed that the foal will have color right? I understand forever home and all that jazz, but you never know what will happen in life, focus on the right mix, not the number of spots on the studs bum....And I am not trying to be offensive or rude, just stating my opinion, I wish you the best of luck finding the right stud for your mare.


I'm not actually focused on the color - the list of stallions I have going includes a pinto, a cremello, two blacks, and a chestnut. However, I do keep coming back to the colored guys because they seem like good options, for various reasons. And with some stalls I posted, color IS guaranteed (such as the cremellos or homozygous pintos)

I do have to argue though that I will NOT "know" what I'm getting regardless of any stud I breed to. River is a grade, there are different breeds in her background that could influence the outcome. I know this, and am comfortable with it. 

ALSO, one last point - as unacceptable as it should be, color IS a selling point. I realize that the foal does need to be marketable, and to be honest, color WILL help in that department  It's sad, but in many instances a colorful foal will sell before a plain bay or chestnut, even if the quality of the foal is not quite as good. I have seen this over and over again first hand (family has bred horses for over 30 years). 

I've been trying my best to find quality, colored studs because I don't want to go for low quality. But, like I said, I have been looking at bays, blacks, and chestnuts as well.


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## Blingaling (Dec 21, 2012)

> Are you saying that Warmbloods and TB's have poor temperaments?


No, not at all, as that is all I own currently. Other than a couple of ponies, QHs and Appendix's in the past, they are all I have ever owned, and probably ever will. What I am saying is that there are good and bad apples in EVERY breed. 

As for color...that is never a good reason to breed and should ALWAYS be the absolute LAST thing on your list when you look at stallions.


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

EmilyJoy said:


> Any of these? No idea about conformation see if the experts will help?
> 
> Ackermans Training & Breeding Center



Where any of these what you were looking for?


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

EmilyJoy - originally, I was positive that I was going to breed her to a QH or Paint. But once I got thinking about it, I realized that since my goal was to hopefully lighten up the build of the foal and add a bit of height, a QH type wasn't the best option. I ALMOST bred her to a foundation QH last year... but thing is, they really weren't built all that differently - short, stocky, thick. 

I'm still a huge QH fan (especially foundation), but for River, I think something taller and lighter is a better option.

That's why I've begun to look at TB's and Warmbloods!


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Blingaling said:


> No, not at all, as that is all I own currently. Other than a couple of ponies, QHs and Appendix's in the past, they are all I have ever owned, and probably ever will. What I am saying is that there are good and bad apples in EVERY breed.
> 
> As for color...that is never a good reason to breed and should ALWAYS be the absolute LAST thing on your list when you look at stallions.


I was mostly just poking fun, the way you worded your post sounded like you were infering that unless the colt inherited the Paint side, that it would have a poor temperament.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Just curious as to what your short list is at this point?


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Color Guard, Goldmaker, Glorioso Noir, State of the Art, Sempatico, Diamond Stud. I posted links in a new thread
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> For a dressage prospect, I would be really turned off by how much front end action he has compared to back end. He also seems to be strung out a little behind - that back weight bearing leg seems a good deal back considering how far into the stride he is. The reason I would shy away from him is because both the get they have as examples are showing the exact same thing - flashy in front, not quite right in the back.
> 
> However, I am but a novice, sharing what I see. I may be really far off with it, just my observations.


 
I still like him. I think with the right mare, he makes nice babies. 



UB40 Dressage Stallion, Iron Spring Farm - YouTube


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

UB40 is gorgeous, im partial to a big chestnut though. Looks like he has very nice movement, has a nice show record, as do his offspring, and seems to stamp his get with color and a pretty head.


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