# Over Reactive Horse - random freak outs



## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I had an arabian mare that would do a similar thing. She would be fine in the arena 8 times around and on the 9th she would spook at the saw dust pile. She was not bucking but she would bolt and stop suddenly. She would also do this while leading and we could never predict it. I could feel her build up and get more tense but I could never figure out where she would explode or when. I came off that mare a fair few times. 

I never figured it out and how to work her. We ended up rehoming her. Not that you should necessarily do that with your horse. We rehomed our mare to a woman who wanted a companion horse (this mare was a great companion horse). She loves this mare. The mare is now 15 years older then when I was riding her and has mellowed some. I just never jived with her. 

It sounds like your boy is what I would consider dishonest. He is spooking because he is something other than scared. He is bored or excited or just feels frisky. He is not genuinely afraid of the thing in question. I don't mind spooking but I want a reason, its one of the things I really like about my current horses if they spook there is a reason. I would look into what he is being fed. I would also see if he is doing this behavior in the ring or is it everywhere? He might be ring sour/bored and making stuff up to keep it "exciting".


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> he can seem desensitized to something and relaxed around it and then all of a sudden seems to decide its a horse eating monster and freaks out explosively.


I dont think your reading him correctly. My cousin has a percheron like this. she said she had desensitized him, but all she'd done was desensitize untill he "looked" relaxed, then stop. for this particular horse he looked relaxed long before he actually was, so she was stopping far too soon.

also, the biggest thing that helped her gelding was trust building excercises. he has an alpha personality but is reactive, and he had a really hard time actually trusting his owner. she did lots of groundwork excercises, and now she ha


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

rookie said:


> It sounds like your boy is what I would consider dishonest. He is spooking because he is something other than scared. He is bored or excited or just feels frisky. He is not genuinely afraid of the thing in question. I don't mind spooking but I want a reason, its one of the things I really like about my current horses if they spook there is a reason. I would look into what he is being fed. I would also see if he is doing this behavior in the ring or is it everywhere? He might be ring sour/bored and making stuff up to keep it "exciting".


I've wondered this exact thing. He is a lazy one and tries to find ways out of actual work all the time and I've half wondered if this is an extension of that issue. 

I will ground drive him out into the woods or down the road and if he spooks there it feels more legit - usually I can see a clear reason and know its coming. i.e. dog charging up to us, deer, etc. The spook in these instances is much different - no going up in the air, but rather trying to run away instead. 

His diet is free-choice grass (orchard & fescue) hay and mineral.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

BlueSpark said:


> I dont think your reading him correctly. My cousin has a percheron like this. she said she had desensitized him, but all she'd done was desensitize untill he "looked" relaxed, then stop. for this particular horse he looked relaxed long before he actually was, so she was stopping far too soon.
> 
> also, the biggest thing that helped her gelding was trust building excercises. he has an alpha personality but is reactive, and he had a really hard time actually trusting his owner. she did lots of groundwork excercises, and now she ha


We've worked on a lot of ground work excercises and trust issues due to his issues he came with. He trusts me a lot - my personal shadow when I go out to the field - but we are working on getting him to accept other people.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Cat, what do you do or how do you react during and after his performances?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

First idea....feeling frisky....spring is in the air, he's almost grown up, has developed some strength and has to go somewhere with it. Happens a lot with young horses. It's a phase, normally.
Second idea....lack of magnesium. I would give a magnesium supplement for about a month and re-evaluate. Won't hurt and doesn't cost the world

Third idea....as has been said, not truly desensitized.

I'd like to see a pic of his face. Front and profile....


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Cat, what do you do or how do you react during and after his performances?


Depends on what he is reacting to. 

For example - when he freaked out over the plastic bag that he had seen and had all over him a million times previously and decided one day to do leaps over the ground - I just continued working it the area that bugged him until he stopped freaking out and started showing signs of relaxing, then I removed the offending object. Then after a few seconds I brought it back and repeated - typical desensitization process really until he was acting bored - head lowered, his floppy bottom lip he gets when relaxed, muslces unknotted, hind leg cocked, etc.

When its something new that I have introduced him to and he freaks out big, I take it a step back to where he is a bit more comfortable and then try moving up from that spot on the desensization process. Typically with my desensitization steps I take I rarely see a huge freak out over something new with this horse (typically no bucking in this situation, he may snort and try to move away more likely). If I do it tells me I have moved too fast and my fault. 

Something like that cat running across the arena - I let him have his freak out and then we continue working on whatever we were doing. Can't put the cat on a stick and wave it at him. LOL. I found out early on with this boy if I try to comfort him after a freak out he will just freak out bigger and badder over something else - so we continue like it had never happened. While he is freaking I try to stand with my body in a neutral position, relaxed like I'm not concerned about anything and I have no idea why he is. Any other suggestions on how to react differently in this scenario are appreciate!

When he freaked out over the tarp yesterday, I let him settle down and then had him go up and sniff it, and then we started by lunging next to it and then proceded to lunge on it. Ended the session with the tarp ON him.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Is he reactive in the pasture by himself?

I had a mare I spent 2 years desensitizing, I could ride out her spooks, so we rode over a thousand miles, mountains, rivers, mud, snow. She never at any point quit being super reactive. I watched her on the pasture and she spooked there too. Finally came to the conclusion that was just how she was and I sold her as a barrel horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

He is usually with the herd and he reacts when the lead horse reacts, but nothing overly so compared to the others that I can tell.


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## dlpark2 (Mar 6, 2013)

I think you have my horse, cause you are describing my gelding Blue exactly. I go though the same thing with him. Items that he has been desensatized to and see 20 times suddenly give a reaction on the 21st time. I keep saying it is like I make 3 steps forward in his training only to have to take 1 step back. My husband says he is like a traffic light...go, caution, stop. Like yours he is young yet (only 3 1/2) and I feel that with continued work, he will make a good mount someday.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

I was totally with DHW. Magnesium is the first thing I though of. I would make sure to supplement that and go from there with the other ideas.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> First idea....feeling frisky....spring is in the air, he's almost grown up, has developed some strength and has to go somewhere with it. Happens a lot with young horses. It's a phase, normally.
> Second idea....lack of magnesium. I would give a magnesium supplement for about a month and re-evaluate. Won't hurt and doesn't cost the world
> 
> Third idea....as has been said, not truly desensitized.
> ...


Its not just a spring time thing - I was dealing with the same thing with him most of last year too. 

Never heard of the magnesium thing - I'll have to try it. I'll check his current mineral when I get home and post how much is in it and see if you think he needs more or what.

I can get pics up tonight.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

I just read your reply, and I think you're on the right track BUT I think you're only going half-way there with the desensitizing. With the horse, I would expose him until he REALLY freaks and I would keep the pressure on him until he 'gets it out of his system', and allows you to do whatever you please. I would assume he is looking relaxed about the 'scary object' and then it's removed from the picture, I would keep the scary object there and up the anti.....for example, the scary plastic bag, when he relaxed and you removed it from the arena, I would've picked it up and rubbed it all over him, thrown it at him etc.......he's choosing his comfort level and having a fit when he decides he's not comfortable. Make him confront things all the way, he's learning to escape by scaring you. 

I'm not into 'flooding' a horse, because at some point they switch off and just put up with the flooding, but in this case you don't need to 'flood' just up the anti. Instead if going to a five, reach a ten.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Will respond with a more lengthy reply when I can - but sometimes horses will just "shut down" to stimulus instead of being desensitized. They may shut down and look bored/complacent/relaxed but are really just not there anymore mentally. 
I will come back and elaborate when I have a keyboard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KountryPrincess (Oct 23, 2012)

BlueSpark said:


> Is he reactive in the pasture by himself?
> 
> I had a mare I spent 2 years desensitizing, I could ride out her spooks, so we rode over a thousand miles, mountains, rivers, mud, snow. She never at any point quit being super reactive. I watched her on the pasture and she spooked there too. Finally came to the conclusion that was just how she was and I sold her as a barrel horse.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I tell you guys, I really do think that there are horses out there that are simply going to remain reactive. Some of these big name clinitions will take them on as demos, and like the OP, they can make a big difference desensitizing, but whether or not that horse will be trustworthy for the next six months, or the next year, nobody knows. You can keep working with some of them and they will always have the occasional blow up.

If you can find something that they are good at, and less likely to blow up, more power to you. If not, keeping and not riding them, or companion home are the only truly safe answers. They are not likely to get trail horse of the year. I will not risk my safety riding one just to prove I can. Not worth the risk of being hurt or killed. Regular horses are dangerous enough for me.

What causes it? Who knows. Some people have a screw loose some horses have one. I know a mare so flighty she will not eat consistently. She will have a full feeder of hay in her stall, and will just stand there staring off into space for an hour or so, as if she is waiting for something to scare her. She does not have a weight problem, so she eventually gets enough food, but just watching her makes me anxious. In a herd she spooks constantly and tries to get the herd going, but they have learned to ignore her. This is a horse that has been worked with for *years*. Trainer after trainer. She has never gotten safe enough to ride out on the trail, she is still blowing up in the arena over the same old stuff that she has seen and been desensitized to a million times. Whew...I would give it up already.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> Will respond with a more lengthy reply when I can - but sometimes horses will just "shut down" to stimulus instead of being desensitized. They may shut down and look bored/complacent/relaxed but are really just not there anymore mentally.
> I will come back and elaborate when I have a keyboard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hmmm just what I said and was thinking too......


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> I just read your reply, and I think you're on the right track BUT I think you're only going half-way there with the desensitizing. With the horse, I would expose him until he REALLY freaks and I would keep the pressure on him until he 'gets it out of his system', and allows you to do whatever you please. I would assume he is looking relaxed about the 'scary object' and then it's removed from the picture, I would keep the scary object there and up the anti.....for example, the scary plastic bag, when he relaxed and you removed it from the arena, I would've picked it up and rubbed it all over him, thrown it at him etc.......he's choosing his comfort level and having a fit when he decides he's not comfortable. Make him confront things all the way, he's learning to escape by scaring you.
> 
> I'm not into 'flooding' a horse, because at some point they switch off and just put up with the flooding, but in this case you don't need to 'flood' just up the anti. Instead if going to a five, reach a ten.


 
I think you misunderstood my "take it away" comment. I have it on the end of a lunge whip for rubbing over and then the "take it away" in the bag's case was having it sitting to the other side of my leg outside of his bubble before bringing it back into his space. My feet don't move - the bag is just pulled away for a few seconds when he shows relaxing signs. It was never removed from the arena during our work session. 

I have pics somewhere of this particular incident if I can find them to post again. They had been in my webshots which is unfortunately gone now, but I'm sure I still have them stored on my home computer. But you can see his blowing up and finished product before we were done and see what you think. That day I had just happened to have the camera because I was planning to get undersaddle pics and instead ended up with bronc pics. 

Like the tarp the other night - since he blew up on that we didn't finish until he was wearing the thing comfortably several times. But we have been there-done that with the tarp perviously on a couple occassions and have had it rubbed all over him vigerously and flapped all around him and him be fine with it. But maybe I'm not going far enough. Hopefully I can find the pics and get more feedback. I've just never put this much time and energy into desensitizing any horse - ever. My mustang doesn't even need a fraction of the time I use on Rascal. And what still gets me is the fact that he can be fine for quite a while and then one day just blow up over something he's been exposed to for a couple years.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I never make any attempt to desensitise any horse, young or old. I can see no point in getting it use to a polythene bag being waved at it when it is totally different to the same bag blowing down the road towards it. 
What I do teach the horses is that my rules are set and are to be obeyed. I own the air they breath and they know it. 

I teach in a firm fair way, I correct all the little things they try on and this is _every time _ not just when it suits me.

Through this they learn that my rules are not to be broken and that they can trust me. When something happens that is, to them, spooky, I give a command, like stand and will give a jerk on the rope if leading or a boot if riding them, they know that it is not worth going against my wishes and because of the trust, they obey.

I think that your horse is bored and by throwing the odd 'whoopee' he breaks the monotony.

Get on with things rather than messing around. Let him know that he can trust you and that training can be a fun process. 

A bunch of young TBs in the loose barn had pulled a large polythene bale wrap into their pen. I picked it up to have one of them pull at it with his teeth. I then threw it not only over him but also a weanling and a yearling stood by him. Not one bothered to move yet they had never been sacked out. 

Another time I was out riding and leading another. The winds were horridly strong and trotting up a lane into the wind I had my head down. All of a sudden both horses faltered and I looked up to see what looked like a giant octopus flying down the road towards us. I halted and fortunately a tentacle got caught in the hedge stopping it from wrapping around us. I walked the horses on and they both walked over the billowing plastic car cover that was across the road. 
The mare I was riding had only been ridden for about 8 weeks and the one I was leading was one that came for training as he was 'impossible' Neither had ever seen anything like it and yet they did as was asked purely because they knew if I said it was OK then it was. 
I would not have blamed either if they had tried to turn and run but, they knew better.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Will respond with a more lengthy reply when I can - but sometimes horses will just "shut down" to stimulus instead of being desensitized. They may shut down and look bored/complacent/relaxed but are really just not there anymore mentally.
> I will come back and elaborate when I have a keyboard.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
I could see a horse just "shutting down" like that, but I would think they would be reactive the next time they saw the object because they were never actually desensitized? This horse does not - he will calmly accept the object the next time he sees it - many times he will calmly accept it for months - or even years like in the case of the incident with the plastic bag. Then bam - blows up like a fruit loop over it one day. I don't remember him being this reactive before last year.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Back to the magnesium - I was thinking of stopping at TSC tonight to see if they had anything. I found this on their website and it says it contains magnesium. Would this work or should I order something with pure online?

AniMed Vita-Calm, 2 lb. - Tractor Supply Online Store


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Cat said:


> Its not just a spring time thing - I was dealing with the same thing with him most of last year too.
> 
> Never heard of the magnesium thing - I'll have to try it. I'll check his current mineral when I get home and post how much is in it and see if you think he needs more or what.
> 
> I can get pics up tonight.


Magnesium for Horses | Natural Health for Equines is quite an interesting read. Then you can Google 'MagRestore", there's more info.
The calcium: magnesium ratio should be 2:1, but without knowing how much is in your hay, of each, it's hard to tell if your vit/ min balances it. 
Chances are that he's low if he eats a good portion of alfalfa. It has high calcium, which lessens availability of magnesium.
Like I said, I would supplement it for a month and then re-evaluate.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Unfortunately, horses are almost never owned by one person throughout their lifetimes. Also, the person you bought your horse from probably doesn't have any knowledge of your horse prior to THEIR ownership.
*Therefore, you don't know the history.*
In the last 28 years I have owned horses I have met trainers who pick up rogues and retrain them for sale. Buy low, sell high. They work them hard enough to behave, then sell them as "Fixed." Every time this happens, if the new buyer doesn't treat said horse with the same leadership as the re-trainer just did, the horse learns what he can get away with. You said a specific number. Your horse knows you won't push him past this. You don't really know how many times this has happened in your horse's life, but I can _*assure*_ you it has happened at least once. Please don't try to push your horse past this bc they will be a fight, and right now your horse will win that fight.
Simply, you own a spoiled horse.
There are only two solutions.
Sell the horse, and don't cry that you took a loss. I stupidly bought a green mule several years ago--never even rode him--for $900, and sold him for $200. Take the loss and learn from it.
OR
Find a new trainer who will also train YOU. My friend bought a young gelding who was somewhat green and walking all over her. She found such a trainer and sent him to his place for about one month. THEN, she went over and had the trainer work her on her horse so she would KNOW how to continue the training. Happy ending. (This was not her first horse.)
We horse owners are ALWAYS training. ALWAYS. Horses crave leadership, but they will always fill a leadership vacuuum. One of you will be the boss. They don't ever understand "equal."
Sorry to say but if you keep him this horse is always going to challenge you, even if it's only in little ways.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Cat said:


> Back to the magnesium - I was thinking of stopping at TSC tonight to see if they had anything. I found this on their website and it says it contains magnesium. Would this work or should I order something with pure online?
> 
> AniMed Vita-Calm, 2 lb. - Tractor Supply Online Store


Yeah, but check "Remission" also. Whichever has more magnesium for less money
Just checked, Remission has 6000mg per ounce, 5 lbs are 20$


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks Deserthorsewoman!


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## KountryPrincess (Oct 23, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> I never make any attempt to desensitise any horse, young or old. I can see no point in getting it use to a polythene bag being waved at it when it is totally different to the same bag blowing down the road towards it.
> What I do teach the horses is that my rules are set and are to be obeyed. I own the air they breath and they know it.
> 
> I teach in a firm fair way, I correct all the little things they try on and this is _every time _ not just when it suits me.
> ...


Ya know, this is a good point. I have never specifically set out to desensitize any of my horses either, yet they all knew mommy's word was *it*. If mom says no, it is no. If mom says go, you had better go. Yes I call myself mom, but I am not an official trainer, just my horse's trainer/authority figure. And they don't cross me. 

My mare in particular will test other people extensively to make sure they mean what they say. My BO said the other day, "She is a different horse when you are around". When I am *not* there she is very Alpha and pushy. When I am there, she is mother's good girl, "What can I do for you today mom?" 

All of my horses have been incredible trail horses. They will spook occasionally, but they don't run or buck or do anything to unseat me. We just move past scary objects. I want them paying attention to me anyway, not an object or situation. If I see my mare's attention start to wander, such as looking at a scary/distracting situation, I speak to her in a warning tone, like, "Mare.....remember who is up here." And she comes back to full attention on me. 

Excellent point. However, I still think some rare horses are just limited in the brain dept. Even though they may respect their riders, they are unable to trust enough to override their reactivity. They are rare though. I can count on one hand the number I have seen in thirty plus years with horses. I think often, it *is* a lack of respect and trust in the handler. Great post.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Corporal said:


> Unfortunately, horses are almost never owned by one person throughout their lifetimes. Also, the person you bought your horse from probably doesn't have any knowledge of your horse prior to THEIR ownership.
> *Therefore, you don't know the history.*
> In the last 28 years I have owned horses I have met trainers who pick up rogues and retrain them for sale. Buy low, sell high. They work them hard enough to behave, then sell them as "Fixed." Every time this happens, if the new buyer doesn't treat said horse with the same leadership as the re-trainer just did, the horse learns what he can get away with. You said a specific number. Your horse knows you won't push him past this. You don't really know how many times this has happened in your horse's life, but I can _*assure*_ you it has happened at least once. Please don't try to push your horse past this bc they will be a fight, and right now your horse will win that fight.
> Simply, you own a spoiled horse.
> ...


I'm a bit lost on your post - why are you talking about past re-training attempts on this specific horse? I take it you missed the part where I took him on three years ago as a unhandled yearling that wasn't even halter broke? I don't think there was much past training before I stepped in that would have impact - other than to not trust humans. In fact I was told he had been allowed to run wild from the day he was born other than being corned into a trailer to be delivered to home 2 where he was again cornered to put a halter on but only stayed there a couple weeks. If I am missing something on this - please feel free to clarify.

As to him fighting - I'm confused on that as well. Where did you get any fighting out of this? Yes, he reacts and bucks, but even when he does that he never once comes into my space or aims it at me. 

I've debating on sending him to a trainer's on and off. Problem is he can be a perfect gem for long stretches of time and then freaks out over something he has seen a hundred times. That is specifically what has me concerned. The random way he has reactions and the how severely he reacts when he does. I've even wondered about his eye sight at times as being a possible cause. But with his long stretches of showing no problems - I could easily send him to a trainer for 30 or 60 days of training and he could very well not blow up once in that time.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You're making excuses for bad behavior. Train to listen and/or desensitize. I desensitized all the horses I trained to gunfire and crowds. I used the US Cavalry method, green paired with well seasoned. My (at the time) 15yo herd leader, "Tyke" thought the universe began and ended at CW Reenactments. It took one day to break him of his fear of guns. He had, at one point, ponied at the track, so crowds were never an issue. After we let our commander ride him at drills and command an army, HE thought everyone was there to admire him only. HE was the reason that my other horses accepted this odd, new activity. Still, it took one weekend of constant movement, circles, figure 8's, backing, all the exercises I could think of to train the 8yo OTTB I trained to accept it. After 2 days of activity, finally this horse was too tired to do anything but walk, and afterwards he wasn't ever afraid of any of it.
You NEVER know what you horse is going to spook at. You try to expose them to everything you can think of in the arena, or a safe place, and I believe that tying a plastic bag from the grocery store to a fence and exposing your horse when turned out will certainly help him lose his fear, especially if his horse friends are not afraid of it. I prefer this method bc I'm not standing next to a 1,000 lb frightened animal who might kill me bc he's reacting and not THINKING. 
Often, once they accept one thing, they find it similar to another. Why risk going out on the trail and discovered a spook-able moment? I have 3 horses right now, and my 14yo mare is a seasoned CW R. mount. I bought her in 2008, at the 145th Natl. Gettysburg. 5,000 troops on the field, in front of crowds, at times "firing at will". I have taken her everywhere I used to take my older, past on, totally broken horses, and she hasn't taken a false step. She gives my 6yo geldings the confidence they need to know that they won't be eaten when they encounter something new.
New horse owners need _all possible solutions_ to their problems. I had to learn many things the hard way, and that's why over almost 28 years, I was kicked in the head, kicked in the hip, and thrown and broke my arm. I still own horses, but these things could discourage some one else.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Sorry, had to re-read your post. The horse that threw me in 2004 and broke my arm was a 2yo with a fear history when I became his 3rd owner. Unless you breed the mare, you don't know the history of your horse. My 6yo KMH was a "retread" and we've had "words", but we have a really good relationship now, and he'll be a finished mount this summer. I had some problems with him, but I don't now, however I've been training horses since 1985, and I do know some things about training.
I think you need a trainer to help you.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Corporal said:


> You're making excuses for bad behavior.


Sorry - I was not aware that I was doing that - thought I was trying to figure out why instead. I'll watch how I word things in the future.



> Train to listen and/or desensitize. I desensitized all the horses I trained to gunfire and crowds. I used the US Cavalry method, green paired with well seasoned. My (at the time) 15yo herd leader, "Tyke" thought the universe began and ended at CW Reenactments. It took one day to break him of his fear of guns. He had, at one point, ponied at the track, so crowds were never an issue. After we let our commander ride him at drills and command an army, HE thought everyone was there to admire him only. HE was the reason that my other horses accepted this odd, new activity. Still, it took one weekend of constant movement, circles, figure 8's, backing, all the exercises I could think of to train the 8yo OTTB I trained to accept it. After 2 days of activity, finally this horse was too tired to do anything but walk, and afterwards he wasn't ever afraid of any of it.


Right. But then what do you do when you have the horse that seems desensitized - has no problems for years in some instances like with the tarp and plastic bag - but then totally flips out on you over something he is familiar with? I have taken on mustangs, green broke skittish horses, horses with less than ideal histories, and even an unhandled 5 year old stallion from the person who bred him (older gentleman who had been injured and finally after several years realized he had to let his stock go) and had no problems desensitising them. I'm not new to difficult horses but I am new to this particular issue. I usually find desensitising horses easy but its like this horse sometimes has a switch that flips. 


I think for now I will try the magnesium supplement (picked some up) and I will see if varying things more to cut down boredom like mentioned earlier will help. Thanks for all the input so far everyone.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Urghhh I wrote this elaborate post and then HF logged me out. Jerk...

I'll re-type it in a minute. It's how I dealt with my horse's reactiveness


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I'd like to see a pic of his face. Front and profile....


Do these work?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

*I've dealt with this too*

_Sky, by nature, is very reactive to new or old things. He either sees what he can get away with (which is usually nothing) or is honestly worried.

This is what I did to help him._

Desensitizing is not just a linear process. It is dynamic to fit the needs and ways of the horse. If something isn't scary one day, it could be the next day.

There are a few things to keep in mind: What the horse doesn't see will startle him if he is lacking in confidence in himself or his handler. How do you increase confidence? There are a few ways.

Start desensitizing as you handle your horse. Be sloppy with how you put on things, or take more time. Spin the rope around while you walk him (not directed at him but off to the side so it's NOT a cue) or slap it lazily against your pant leg. Anything to get him perked up and looking around worried. Ignore it and direct him away from you, pretending like it's absolutely nothing. Make sure your energy level is deadened to it, as in don't get excited about the noise or about his reaction. Press on, putting all your energy into marching him forward as you lead him. 

Second, put the scary things in his path. So if he's not sure about a jacket, put it on the fence, or on the ground. Let him huff and puff and throw a fit, but control it. As in don't let him go crazy, but allow him to express himself. Once he begins to calm down, use techniques like teaching him to lower his head, flexing him, disengaging the hind end, side passing, etc. to get him to focus on other things. Then "send" him to and fro (if you want me to explain "sending" let me know) so he can look at it with both eyes, and notice it's just laying there being all innocent. Then, get closer to it until you can pick it up and then do the usual rubbing it on him, letting him smell it, etc. Then, rub it on him at a walk. Lay it on his back, etc. Put it on the ground and send him over it or lunge him over it. Anything so he realizes it's all okay.

This will increase his own confidence, and his in you as well.

Summary:
Pretend nothing is happening and go about your way, desensitize him all the time unexpectedly, desensitize him both while standing and while in motion.

Another aspect is feed. If a feed is making him too hot, you will know in one of two ways: He's calm before he eats, or if you change the amount of grain he's getting, there is a huge change.

Sky is an asshat on SafeChoice. Any amount and he will turn into the world's spastic bottlerocket horse. He bolts, he prances, he is a crazy banshee. 

Now he's fine once we took him off of that and gave him more hay and a more balanced-for-him grain.

Too much protein can cause hotness.. sometimes Alfalfa cubes in a large amount can too. Just depends on the horse.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Cat said:


> Do these work?


perfect
I was wondering if he has a slight bumb below eye level. That could point towards unpredictability. No bump. Good. 
Gonna study his face a little more now...bear with me;-)


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> perfect
> I was wondering if he has a slight bumb below eye level. That could point towards unpredictability. No bump. Good.
> Gonna study his face a little more now...bear with me;-)


How interesting!!! 

Sky definitely has a bump there.. but I assumed it was from his younger days. he has a lot of bumps and scars on him..


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Cat said:


> Do these work?


Okay. I see flame shaped nostrils...could point towards a hot horse.
his forehead is rather narrow....needs more time and repetition to truly understand things. Eye is soft enough, ears small and point slightly outward....he has no problem with working. What I see is a prominent nose bone...points to hard headedness. 
Before anybody goes crazy....I'm not Linda Tellington Jones, but I use her methods to get a first impression of a horse. 

I would put him on the magnesium, if nothing changes, at least mg deficiency is ruled out.
Sky and others have pretty good methods of further desensitization which I think can only help. 
I have the impression of a horse who is a little bored and likes to amuse himself.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Urghhh I wrote this elaborate post and then HF logged me out. Jerk...
> 
> I'll re-type it in a minute. It's how I dealt with my horse's reactiveness


Sky, if you hit the reply/send button and find yourself logged out (ggrrrrr) hit the back button on your tool bar and quickly copy your post, then log back in and just paste it in the reply box.....I've been finding myself logged out a lot lately


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> How interesting!!!
> 
> Sky definitely has a bump there.. but I assumed it was from his younger days. he has a lot of bumps and scars on him..


Ohhh, he has a very interesting face! I have to look at that a bit more......


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> Sky, if you hit the reply/send button and find yourself logged out (ggrrrrr) hit the back button on your tool bar and quickly copy your post, then log back in and just paste it in the reply box.....I've been finding myself logged out a lot lately


I tried  If it's the big advanced reply window it works.. but I stupidly used the fast reply.. and just as fast as I'd typed it, it disappeared. Uggg...


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

What I am reading from some of the other postings as well, is these horses don't trust you or see you as leader. When a horse doesn't have a leader, he is mentally out of control. It wants a leader, it needs to be told what to do and not left to it's own devices. Rather than lunging, put a long line on his halter and move back by his hip, out of kicking range, and ask him to move at the walk, If he stops, you stop then you ask him to move. No whip, just raise your arm toward his rump and wiggle your hand. Keep it low energy. You are moving him as an alpha horse would make him move. If he wants to stop and face you, as long as it's with both eyes, good. He wants to pay attention. That is a good time to turn your back to him to give him a release of mental pressure. With the release of pressure, he'll start to pay more attention to you.


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## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

First of all, as I read your posted I am not a big fan of "desensitizing" horses if what you mean by "desensitizing" is showing your horse every little thing in the world that might or does scare him. I do however work on teaching my horses how to deal with FEAR. Its not a matter of showing them a bag so they are no longer scared of bags, or show them a tarp or a..., or a..., or a... I don't feel that's the best way to train. Everything we do with horses other then having them out in a pasture and letting them eat is something that could and most likely will be something they are or will be scared of. 
So as I work with a horse I keep an eye on their fear level I will "push" right up to the point of them "blowing up" I really try to stay out of the "blow up" so anyway I push as close to the "blow up" then I stop pushing let them settle then right back to it. Not only am I training my horse to saddle I am teaching them how to deal with fear. Fear is inevitable teaching your horses how to deal with it is the idea not desensitizing them. Push your horse learn to feel his fear level building. I can say this is your horse but its not very likely that it is truly "out of the blue" in my experience with horses there are signs and warnings before the "blow up" we just have to see them. Sometimes we miss no one is perfect.
The other idea I had. Is in my opinion anytime, a horse spooks it is not looking to the rider/trainer for direction. If my horse spooks a something it is more worried about that "thing" then its training.
As trainers we ask horse to act against their nature, we train them to move away from pursuer not into pursuer, we train them to give up their free will and to be told where and when to go when to stop, we train them to stand and not run when scared on and on we train horses to not act like a horse thinks it should act. 
So your horse spooks you missed the signs that something was scaring it. you lost your horses focus. To stop the spooking Keep your horse focused on you and DEMAND his undivided attention.
Just a few ideas I had as I read your post and that of the other posters. Good luck.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

CowboyBob said:


> First of all, as I read your posted I am not a big fan of "desensitizing" horses if what you mean by "desensitizing" is showing your horse every little thing in the world that might or does scare him. I do however work on teaching my horses how to deal with FEAR.


That is the idea of my post too. I should have added after going through this process with him, he now takes new things without fear. He looks to his handler and is much more confident.

There is no way to desensitize with every single thing, plus that would be a waste of time. A horse doesn't encounter these objects while he's standing out in pasture or in his box stall.. it's at shows, in the yard, or on the trails.

Therefore any desensitizing has to be dynamic and focused with building their confidence in tandem with their confidence in you.


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## TrailRiderr (Jul 10, 2012)

I had a gelding that was exactly as you described! I owned him since he was a weanling up until he turned 6 yrs old. I ended up selling him. I was really upset about it, but I came off of him too many times, even after he was with a really good trainer. I was really losing my confidence he didn't trust me and I didn't trust him. And I spent A LOT of time desensitizing him and doing different ground work exercises. He would be ok for a while and then just flip out all of a sudden. It was really hard at the time, but now I am glad I did. I'm just recently feeling about as confident as I was before. It's been two years this year. Good Luck with your decision, I wish I had better advice for you.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

And then we have days like today - could send him over anything and around anything and he didn't bat an eye at any of it. Now if I can only figure out the difference between a bad day and a good.

Thank you for all the comments so far. There is a lot of info I'm trying to consider and read through right now.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Have you had his eyes checked out?

And you may not be a firm enough person for him, in that he is getting worse.

He may do better if you were more matter of fact and a "quit it" person?

And what about feed, is it too hot?


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Palomine said:


> Have you had his eyes checked out?
> 
> And you may not be a firm enough person for him, in that he is getting worse.
> 
> ...


No - I have not had his eyes checked but have considered it a possible issue. I will have the vet check next time he sees him.

As to being firm enough - I thought I was, but who knows? Maybe I have off days and that is why he is good most of the time and this seems to be a random issue? Since this thread is about this issue it makes it sound like its a problem all the time - its not. He has a lot of good days which I think is why the bad reactions really stand out. 

He is a really easy keeper. He is on grass hay (Orchard and fescue mix) and a mineral supplement. The only change is we incorporated some square bales in - supposed to be same mix just different supplier - because our spring is taking longer than normal to get here. But there is no alfalfa, no grain or other feeds to hype him up.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have not read all of the responses, but here is my take on horses like this:

First of all, I feed a loose mineral free choice to all of my horses. It is 24-25% Ca, 5-6% P and is 2% Mg. It is less than 25% salt and had 150,000 IU of Vitamin A per pound. I definitely see a great difference in horses with and without it, both in health, development, bone, soundness and mind / mental issues. Given all that, some horse are just much more reactive than others regardless of what you do, but about all of them can get a lot better.

I really think this horse needs to be ridden. I think he needs a lot less pointless desensitizing and needs a job instead. A busy mind, busy feet and an assertive rider that is riding with a purpose gets rid of most booger hunting horse problems. Get him more obedient and more focused on you and worry a whole lot less about what he might see or think. I'll bet you are more actively hunting boogers than he is. I use only enough desensitizing to teach a horse to stand still for saddleing and to accept my big, soft cotton rope that I sack one out with.

When I ride a horse that boogers at something. I do two things: 

1) I move him faster and more purposely. The busier I can keep him, the less he will focus on any boogers.

2) I 'leg yield' his shoulder toward the 'thing' and point his nose away from it as much as I can while I go back and forth and back and forth until he drops his head and just walks by not even trying to see it. I watch his ear away from the 'thing'. I want that ear to point back toward my leg on that side of him. When that ear is pointing toward me and he is not trying to fade away from booger, I know he is thinking more about me than the booger.

When I take a horse back and forth and back and forth vigorously, that is going to be the closest thing I do to a punishment. Even then, it is done with a very definite purpose. It is done to put a lot of pressure on the horse just so I can take the pressure off when he quietly walks by the booger.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Cherie - what brand of mineral do you use?

Your item #2 is very similar to what I do when undersaddle and something like this happens. And you are probably right - getting him undersaddle and out on the trails will probably help. 

One thing I do want to point out as it seems from some of the responses that people believe that I just took him out and started sacking him out and that was the focus of our work. I may be reading it wrong, but that is the feeling I got to some of the responses. I just wanted to clarify that we go out and work on various things. Like the day he freaked out over the cat and the tarp we were working on a trail obstical course set up - going over wooden platforms, tarps, around barrels, through ditches, etc. I was working on sending him through on the single long line and then the plan was later to ground drive him through, but we didn't get that far that day since we got side tracked by his new issue with a tarp that should have been old news.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Bob is right about teaching the horse to control it's fear. How many of you soothe Precious after a spook rather than bringing his focus back to the task at hand? As CA says "Do you start going forwards, backwards, side to side?" By doing this a horse soon learns that spooking means hard work. BTW, the wiley horses learn to use spooking as a means to get out of paying attention because it's worked.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

THANK YOU, CHERIE!!


Cherie said:


> *I really think this horse needs to be ridden. I think he needs a lot less pointless desensitizing and needs a job instead. *A busy mind, busy feet and an assertive rider that is riding with a purpose gets rid of most booger hunting horse problems. Get him more obedient and more focused on you and worry a whole lot less about what he might see or think. I'll bet you are more actively hunting boogers than he is. I use only enough desensitizing to teach a horse to stand still for saddling and to accept my big, soft cotton rope that I sack one out with.


I was just thinking this. The only thing I can add is gait. I never thought about it but when Ken McNabb had a show about moving Mustangs, he said he moves them at the TROT bc a horse can trot all day. He said they've been run to death when they are herded and canter/gallop for miles.
So...canter the heck out of this horse and get him as tired as one of our Olympians did a few decades back. She lost her I'Natl horse and had to create one in a year. She said that this horse was worked 2x/day and was exhausted between workouts.
TOO MUCH talk here and everywhere about short sessions. My lesson horses did 5-7 hours of lessons/week/minimum and knew their job. Yes, boring and yes, broken.
BTW, I like to put my horses outside turned out with scary things and let them figure it out when my body is far away.


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