# TWH for endurance - pace or trot?



## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Forgive me if my terminology is incorrect as I'm not all that familiar with gaited horses - when I refer to "pacing", I mean when her legs on the right move forward together, then the ones on the left, creating a two-beat gait.

My training partner has just started conditioning her TWH for an LD's. We were told by my endurance club president that we want to get her to trot rather than pace on the trail. The horse is still figuring out her gaits, but why is this? Is the pace less efficient? Any opinions on this?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Most gaited horses (I believe there's one exception, though it's called something else) should not pace. Usually when they pace, their bodies aren't able to perform a true 4-beat gait, either because of breeding and conformation or balance and how they're carrying themselves. Often, gaited horses will pace when they're strung out or hollow through the back.

If your horse is a TWH, you should be trying to encourage the natural 4-beat gait characteristic of that breed. To do this he'll need to learn to carry himself in a balanced manner to raise his back and free up his shoulders.

A trot is probably preferable to a pace in a gaited horse, but neither are technically correct for a walker.


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## usdivers (Jun 27, 2012)

jillybean19 said:


> Forgive me if my terminology is incorrect as I'm not all that familiar with gaited horses - when I refer to "pacing", I mean when her legs on the right move forward together, then the ones on the left, creating a two-beat gait.
> 
> My training partner has just started conditioning her TWH for an LD's. We were told by my endurance club president that we want to get her to trot rather than pace on the trail. The horse is still figuring out her gaits, but why is this? Is the pace less efficient? Any opinions on this?


Not sure if your club president is familiar with TWH's, traditionally TWH don't pace...if they are pacing, then their rack or running walk is getting sloppy, and you will need to invest in some dvd's to sort your horse out. Standardbreds are the breed that pace, and are used for harness racing.

One of the main attractions for using a TWH is the comfortable gait, and no need to post for a trot. TWH can be taught to trot, but then you might as well get an Arab if you want to post and not ride a comfortable gait.


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## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Honestly, I'm not sure what the horse is doing and I don't think my friend or her horse does either. From talking to her, I don't think she knows her gaits beyond a walk, trot, or lope. I know I don't have a good enough eye to see what the footfalls are doing, what is correct, and can't keep the gaits straight. I have an Arab and a QH, so I don't have to worry about it lol.

I guess my question is, what gait SHOULD this horse be conditioning at? and what does that look like?

*Clueless*


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## usdivers (Jun 27, 2012)

jillybean19 said:


> Honestly, I'm not sure what the horse is doing and I don't think my friend or her horse does either. From talking to her, I don't think she knows her gaits beyond a walk, trot, or lope. I know I don't have a good enough eye to see what the footfalls are doing, what is correct, and can't keep the gaits straight. I have an Arab and a QH, so I don't have to worry about it lol.
> 
> I guess my question is, what gait SHOULD this horse be conditioning at? and what does that look like?
> 
> *Clueless*


The analogy I can give you is that a TWH is really a classy standardbred. When you are conditioning them, you will find that most of them like to do do a slow running walk. Their running walk is not a pace, it is more of a classy pace, unless that gait is 2 beat, than that is a pace, and will be very uncomfortable in the saddle. When I first started legging up my TWH, all he wanted to do was a slow running walk, which I had to stop and bring him back to a walk, till I was satisfied that his initial LSD was starting to bring his fitness along.

I work my guy in soft sand on the flats and the hills...at the moment I do a lot of intervals when we are doing out LSD's....meaning once he is warmed up, I will let him do 1 km of whatever he wants on a loose rein, which is usually a slow running walk/rack the first 10-15 km, and then on my terms for the next km, I will kick him up a gear on his running walk until we are travelling at least 10km per hour pace.

That's just how we train. I look to his heart rate the next morning, and recovery when we get back to the property to see how his LSD training is going, and weather his pace or distance needs to be modified.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

It's comfort IMO. A pace is a rougher ride than the trot. I hate it when my mare goes into a pace and I always stop it immediately and get her back into a flat walk or running walk....


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^ I think it depends. My 25-yr old paces; he has for the last 15 years and we're still winning in easy-gaited pleasure classes because it's a really pleasurable, smooth gait--even if it is a pace. It's just as smooth as the largo he sometimes gives me, but still not preferable to the largo because he's not using his hind end as much.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

depends on the walker and what lines. Bo is more show line, He has a high stepping rack and a rocking chair super smooth canter. I can shift in between those gaits while maintaining about the same speed by shifting my weight forward or back. When he gets tired he has a bone jarring trot. 
My big mare is old plantation stock, she flat out cruises. She has a trail gait, and then a flat run walk with not alot of foot lifting that is about 11 mph. Then she has a throw you out of the saddle bouncy canter, maybe pace, not sure. I yell at her tell her to stop that crap. gonna depend on your horse it shold be smooth.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Joe- Love your descriptions! Too bad I can't just skip working on my QH's trot all together, it's horrible. Working on getting a jog, but his lope is fantastic. Seems like most horses have a gait that isn't all it could be.

OP- do you have a smart phone or a digital camera? It might be worth setting it up on a fence rail and letting it record you riding for a couple minutes, then looking the vid over to see what she was doing while you were working. In lieu of an observer or mirrors, it can be a good way to see what you're both doing!


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## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Well, my friend said the ride was smooth, so from the comments it doesn't sound like she's pacing. Like I said, I am far from being an expert in gaits. All I know is it looked like her feet on the same side were moving together, but that's just compared to the trot that is completely the opposite. I was riding my own horse, so I'm not sure if her feet were touching the ground at the same time or not.


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## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Oh and a reminder - this isn't MY horse, it's my friend's and I was watching her ride with me on a conditioning ride


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## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm still not quite clear on what all these gaits are everyone's naming, either. Or what a TWH should and shouldn't be doing. Like I said, I live in the simple world of walk, trot, canter/lope. And when we get really fancy, there's a nice Western Pleasure jog in there haha.


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## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

I think what I need is something along the lines of "Gaits for Dummies" descriptions, because I'm watching my friend ride and I don't think I even know what I'm seeing, so maybe let me know in VERY simple and obvious terms what I'm looking for when I watch her move (both the good and bad things), and whether it's right or wrong.


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

Jilly, I have a TWH mare who does a sweet running walk, but she also can pace and trot on occasion. Her pace is smooth, but it isn't as smooth as the running walk. Her trot is lovely....but she is bred for the running walk so we ask for that more often. She has a lovely canter, when she's doing it properly, but under saddle sometimes she crossfires and it feels like riding an eggbeater with a spoon caught in the blades.... 

I can tell you that a trot should feel like a walk/trot/canter horse, only most of the time in a gaited horse it is really rough. The pace can be very smooth - some people prefer it to other gaits. The pace rocks you a bit from side to side (and the head nod isn't as noticeable as with the running walk, as the pace is also moving the horse's head a little from side to side). A running walk will be an even four-beat gait and the head will be pretty much straight forward, with a head nod that can be pretty pronounced in some of the breeds. You will feel a little lift under each hip, moving you more forward than sideways. 

There is also a stepping pace that is a broken, uneven 4 beat gait that's something between the pace and a running walk. Sometimes it can be smooth but not always. 

Ironically, gaited horses sometimes have several gears and depending on the individual horse they can be smooth or not....I've read of some distance riders who switch from one to the other to use different sets of muscles and keep the horse fit and sound. A great book on all the gaits and how to train a gaited horse for the gaits you want (and make it harder for the horse to do the gaits you DON'T want) is "Easy Gaited Horses" by Lee Ziegler. It's a great book on all types of gaits and gaited breeds.


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

Ya'll have heard me mention before that my walker (grade gelding) has the most wonderful 8mph trot that I use for endurance - he can gait, but it is OH SO SLOW and really not his natural way of going. He is much more diagonal.

My blue-blooded MFT will pace when he is out of shape, lazy, or tired. But he is the one in a million whose pace is actually very comfy and altho not as fast as a pacer at the track, it is a perfectly acceptable gait for me (I think someone here already mentioned that pure comfort supersedes everything else)...

but here's another thing, sometimes the running walk can look very lateral to the unexperienced eye. Sometimes you have to video it and slow it down to see the footfalls... but as far as endurance training goes, I say she should figure out what the horse is most comfortable doing at around 6-8 mph and go with that because that is a speed that will be somewhat competitive and get a completion. 

Whatever the horse can do and sustain around that speed for a long period of time (and heartrate stays 130 or below), then that is the winning gait to choose! That, and of course, as long as her bum survives the ride. LOL!:lol:


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

you should be able to sip a latte while cruising along. If not something aint right.


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## usdivers (Jun 27, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> you should be able to sip a latte while cruising along. If not something aint right.


ditto


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> you should be able to sip a latte while cruising along. If not something aint right.


 
Coffee? yeah right -LOL!


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

jillybean19 said:


> I think what I need is something along the lines of "Gaits for Dummies" descriptions, because I'm watching my friend ride and I don't think I even know what I'm seeing, so maybe let me know in VERY simple and obvious terms what I'm looking for when I watch her move (both the good and bad things), and whether it's right or wrong.


 
LOL! Simple.......hmmm hehee...I will try a version of GAITED FOR DUMMIES..LOL!

When you are talking to 'gaited horse' people, you will here the terms 'lateral' and 'diagonal'. The former meaning that the horse's legs on the same side of the body will move as a pair (almost exactly, or just slightly off - the difference makes different gaits) whereas diagonal means the opposite legs (diagonal from each other ) tend to work as a pair.

Next, there are many names for the different gaits that gaited horses can do depending on the breed - and just because it might be a TWH, it still could have the tendency to rack or foxtrot or pace, etc....even careful breeding might have a horse with a throwback gene or predisposition to do something uncharacteristic of what his breed standard dictates.

So when talking about gaiting, that means the horse in question has other ways of going other than the walk, trot and canter - therefore he is qualifies as a 'gaited' horse.

A TWH usually has a couple of variations of the walk (a regular walk and a little faster head swinging walk called a dogwalk) and then the fast one called a running walk that can get up to 10mph in some horses, then the canter usually comes next.

If a horse has a tendency to be more diagonal (such as the foxtrotting breed) they too, will possess a bit of a dogwalk but then upon asking for faster speed, the foxtrot will pop out (sort of like the back legs trotting while the front legs just walk really wide and big). Then the canter can follow from there.

Some horses have a mixture of things in between and with rider influence (change in collection, speed or drive from the rear) out pops a rack or in the case of no collection or less rider influence, the pace.

That's a very SMALL version of gait explanation....maybe that will help! It will give you a different way to perceive your friend's TWH when you see him/her next...maybe it will help you SEE the gait better...:wink:


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

This thread confuses me. I've owned TWH's and TWH crosses, and currently own 2 KMH's, whose gait is similar. TWH's have 6 gaits, but they prefer to cover miles with their "Running Walk." It is natural for them to travel. They drop from their dam's and run-walk the pastures as foals. I've only ever had one resort to a trot while under saddle bc of footing. ALL of the rest of them gait instead of trot and they travel at about 9 mph. It's like you get them into this gear and they don't want to get out of it. If I were endurance riding my gaited horse I wouldn't have to do anything but point them to the trail to get a running walk.
I have heard that driving them encourages the trot, but you don't drive a horse 25 miles in a race. This thread seems a little bit absurd to me.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

If a horse is pacing fast the rider will be rocking side to side. Actually once a horse approaches racing speeds at a pace it will smooth out. Until it approaches racing speeds it kind OMG! and wrap your hands into the mane and wish you had some place to wrap your toes too.

Look at some of the speed racking videos and standardbreds racing under saddle on youtube.






Moni Maker is a trotter but she is great to watch anyhow. Notice her trot looks quit different from a horse trotting down the trail.


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

Corporal said:


> This thread seems a little bit absurd to me.


 
LOL! I think teaching a gaiting horse to trot on purpose defeats the purpose of going gaited, but to each their own. In the end, it is all about where the comfort is and what job needs to be performed and what makes rider and horse happy!


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I'd be encouraging the horse's natural gaits rather than a trot. There is nothing like the feel of a running walk.

I doubt driving them would work to get them to trot. My old standardbred paced in harness. She was a free legged pacer. It was natural for her to gait.


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## jillybean19 (Dec 23, 2011)

Corporal said:


> This thread seems a little bit absurd to me.


Well, if I (or my friend) knew what we were doing with a gaited horse, having only had experience on non-gaited horses, I wouldn't be posting now would I?

In an effort to clarify, we don't know what gait the horse should be doing to best condition and be ridden in for endurance. If that seems obvious to you, since you've ridden gaited horses, then please enlighten us. That's kind of the point.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I have ridden both gaited horses and arabs.

The gaited horses that I rode performed best at a running walk or rack depending on the horse. With my horses, if they paced, their gait sucked. If they trotted, it sucked even worse. A TWH's trot tends to be hopeless. Let that sucker rack. It is natural. It is smooth. He will do his best if you allow him to do what comes naturally.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

All about feel. If it is rough or jpolting or you feel like you want to post your wrong. Heal him past it, You will kinda get to a sweet spot depending on the horse. 
General Beauregard is more show stock and kinda high step racks at speed. probably around 8mph, he will transition into a lope also butter smooth.
Miss Emma, will flat runwalk up to about 12 till she breaks into a throw you out of the saddle somekinda I dont know what she is doing butt lift canter. First time I rode her I thought she was trying to throw me. As she gets in shape she is getting a bit better. But I hold her to a runwalk around 10 mph. Today put 10.3 miles on her at 8.7 mph.. took us 27 minutes to pulse down... so got a ways to go yet.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

jillybean19 said:


> I'm still not quite clear on what all these gaits are everyone's naming, either. Or what a TWH should and shouldn't be doing. Like I said, I live in the simple world of walk, trot, canter/lope. And when we get really fancy, there's a nice Western Pleasure jog in there haha.


Gaits
Here you go!

and some videos:

http://www.twhbea.com/gaits.htm

(The videos make sense if you read the descriptions in the first link though)


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## clippityclop (Jul 12, 2012)

joe4d said:


> miss emma, will flat runwalk up to about 12 till she breaks into a throw you out of the saddle somekinda i dont know what she is doing butt lift canter..


 
lol!!!


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