# Appaloosa studs worth noticing



## SunnyDraco

Whatever you are most passionate about is where your research and goals should lead you. There will almost always be a market niche that desires the same traits/breeding that you do.

Before considering breeding for the market, find out how large of the market niche you would be selling to is, what sells (bloodlines, build and discipline) and at what price horses comparable to yours sell for.

I am not personally a fan of the breed which has become more of a color registry now anyways. I like long thick manes and forelocks and too many appies have rat tails and a sad excuse for a mane, they can even start out with nice hair and one day years later it just falls out and doesn't grow back. But that is me, there are others who love their appies, rat tails and all.


----------



## carshon

The appaloosa has changed so much in the last 20 years. There is so much Quarter Horse Blood in the breed now that the days of roman noses and rat tales are pretty much gone. Not that all App's had that. True old Appy blood lines are not as prevelant today.

Some good old studs are Bright Eyes Brother and some other older blood lines.


----------



## WhattaTroublemaker

carshon said:


> The appaloosa has changed so much in the last 20 years. There is so much Quarter Horse Blood in the breed now that the days of roman noses and rat tales are pretty much gone. Not that all App's had that. True old Appy blood lines are not as prevelant today.
> 
> Some good old studs are Bright Eyes Brother and some other older blood lines.


And THATS what I'd be breeding for. Our two apps have no manes, rat tails and the "hammerhead" look to them. Dad loves it. Seen one the other day that was something like 1/16 Appaloosa, but carried the lp gene and showed it, but was a thoroughbred. They were selling him as a "purebred sport bred Appaloosa" but realistically it's a patterned thoroughbred


----------



## carshon

I grew up with Appies and have always had one. The mare we grew up with was not rat tailed or sparse maned. She was a big solid mare with wonderfully huge feet. Old blood lines and a snowflake pattern. I don't think all old blood lines had this trait and it is going to be a hard sell to potential buyers. 

My two Appies now both have wonderful thick tails. One is a daughter of Ha Dar Shado- with good App blood lines. She has a snowflake pattern and hardly any mane. But mostly App to App breeding in her background

My other App is out of a AQHA mare we owned and a stud who was 1/2 AQHA and 1/2 App he is simply gorgeous and gets comments wherever we go. Large blanket to his withers. Large chestnut spots in his blanket - lightning on his legs, spots in the blaze on his face. 16H and 1250lbs - best mane and tail ever. And he is mostly AQHA in his bloodlines.

If becoming a breeder you need to breed what the market will sell. If you have a market in your area for the rat tailed horses that is fine - but in my area Appies are not popular at all and selling one that is not "typey" would be impossible.


----------



## Drifting

First and foremost, if you start breeding I would highly recommend genetically testing all your breeding stock. Animal Genetics offers the 5 way for $95. If you have IMPRESSIVE in the lines than definitely check for HYPP. Also, PSSM1 is well known in Dreamfinder lines, and other appaloosa bloodlines. As more people get educated they are asking for the 5 panel results before they buy. It is a deal breaker with many people.

Secondly, are you breeding for the show pen? If you are, which classes? My friend breeds horses that are more English for Hunter under Saddle, Hunter in Hand, Driving and Jumping Appaloosas, so her breeding plan is tailored to what's winning those classes in the show rings, and what will win in the future. She just came back from the ApHC world Show.

What registration will you be apart of? ApHC is the big known one, but there is also Colorado Ranger Bred, and some others.

I also recommend looking around your area to see whats selling, and what the prices are listed at. In my area Appaloosa's don't sell well locally, but my friend who breeds World show class types sells nationally and has exported some as well. 

It is true that in ApHC many of the Appaloosa's now are 50% - 75% quarter horse, or Thoroughbred. If you wish to stick to foundation breeding you may want to look at registries that are more foundation centered. There ARE foundation classes in the ApHC.

My appaloosa is really half quarter horse, but he's still awesome and I do appreciate the breed. There are many good Stallions out there but first I recommend narrowing it down to what you're looking for. Western, English, All-Arounders, Halter (I'm not a fan of modern halter horses.)


----------



## Falcor74

You can check out some nice appys with older lines at B & L Horse Ranch.


----------



## Smilie

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Past, present, future! Since I've acquired my Appaloosa colt and finally found the papers to my old app mare, I've become very interested in the Appaloosa breed lately. We've never been into papers but we've been into apps. We've handled some VERY nice Appaloosa studs over the years, and I've considered the possibility (IF I can learn and grow and things settle within the next ten years!!) of starting to breed. But, in order to get there I need to learn. Not necessarily of the breeding basics, my whole family is knowledgable with breeding and handing studs, I can gain knowledge off of them. I'm more interested in what people want, and I'll admit, it intrigues me to look down the line and the history of the horse. For example I found out that our mare has Sundance lines way back, and Spanish mustang lines WAAAY back. So, smilie this may be one for you! What are some great studs of history, or present day, worth digging into? I enjoy the foundation type apps, not the sporty, tb cross lines of today.



Depends on what discipline you wish to focus on.
Far as foundation bred, our last stallion was double Might Bright bred, and he produced horses that were great all around horses. Cody had great bone and that Mighty Bright look
Cody is the sire of Smilie, who won several ROMs, Horse improvement ans other open show championships
He was also the sire of my gelding Einstein, who was an ApHCC supreme member of the breed, won the high point performance buckle for our regional ApHC club, all three years as a jr horse, plus numerous other wins, not to mention that both horses carried me on many mountain rides
We exported offspring form Cody to Germany and the Czech Republic
You stated some interest in working cowhorse. Well, the HIgh Sign Horses have certainly proven themselves there.
Friends of ours owned the HIgh Sign son, High Sign Nugget, who was recently put down at age 28.
High Sign Nugget not only traveled to Texas several times, winning working cowhorse and reining at the Worlds, but also won the Canadian Supreme as both a snaffle bit and bridle horse, against all breeds , plus has many ARCHA wins
He is probably the best known Appaloosa stallion in Alberta, and did a lot, far as earning respect for the Appaloosa, even converting former AQHA die hards to spots!
Several of his offspring also won ApHC world championships in working cowhorse and reining. I bred two of my reining mares to him, and one became a World champion in working cowhorse, ridden by Les timmons, and the other a world and National reining champion . I sold both as yearlings


----------



## Smilie

Far as modern Appaloosa lines, versus foundation, it is quite true that for the most part, those bred for specific show disciplines, as least stock horse type events, have a heavy AQHA influence.
AQHA, first , has a much larger registry, plus has bred for a long time, horses that excel in reining, working cowhorse, cutting, western pl, etc, and since the ApHC registry is not closed, having allowable outcrosses (TB, AQHA and Arabian), those interested in those disciplines, esp upper end, will use those AQHA outcrosses, same as the Paints
Running Apps have running AQHA or TB in them
Foundation classes are available, but if you see foundation ApHC studs advertised, most have no more to recommend them then color, or as general recreational trail riding horses.
Exception being, those foundtation Apps that have become known as Sport horses, like the Wap Spotted line
Some foundation Apps also have the Indian shuffle-great for trail riding, but not so much for shows
Yes, there are other Appaloosa registries, but the ApHC is recognized as the International registry of Appaloosa horses, and most European countries use those papers.
Here in Canada, we still have that separate Appaloosa registry, the ApHCC (Appaloosa Horse club of Canada ), which has caused a great deal of division , between ApHC and ApHCC registered horses
I used to dual register, but now only register ApHC, as those ApHCC papers mean nothing on a global scale. Those European and USA clients that I sold horses to, wanted ApHC papers only.


----------



## Smilie

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> And THATS what I'd be breeding for. Our two apps have no manes, rat tails and the "hammerhead" look to them. Dad loves it. Seen one the other day that was something like 1/16 Appaloosa, but carried the lp gene and showed it, but was a thoroughbred. They were selling him as a "purebred sport bred Appaloosa" but realistically it's a patterned thoroughbred



Good luck selling rat tailed horses , and those with coarse features!
I used to take my Apps tot he booth at Spruce Meadows, during Equi Fair, plus did some demos.
I don't know how many times I heard comments like the following:

;I usually don't like Appaloosas, but I like yours"

"never knew Appaloosas could have such nice manes, heads and tails' !

Yes, if you can't sell a foundation or coarse App horse any other way, and he has some size, then there is the attempt to sell that horse as a Sport horse, even if nothing in his background has ever done anything as a sport horse!

At one time, there was the tendency to just show loud colored Appaloosas, many of which had no ability, thus no serious recognition in that open discipline.
That has thankfully changed, due to horses like High Sign Nugget, and my own Apps, at a smaller scale
When Les Timmons, a well known Alberta working cowhorse trainer, who rode a lot of the high Sign Nuggets, was asked by fellow trainers, riding AQHA horses, as to how he liked showing all those spots, Les replied, " I just like riding a good working cowhorse! "
When I showed Smilie in a large 2 year old futurity, open to all breeds (32 two year olds ), I was told by an AQHA trainer, 'good thing your horse is solid, as you will do better! : 
If you ride a loud colored App in open competition, he has to be very good, as that color will make him stand out, and still has some negative connotation associated against taking a colored horse seriously
I tried to always breed for color, but ability came first


----------



## QHDragon

Smilie said:


> Good luck selling rat tailed horses , and those with coarse features!
> I used to take my Apps tot he booth at Spruce Meadows, during Equi Fair, plus did some demos.
> I don't know how many times I heard comments like the following:
> 
> ;I usually don't like Appaloosas, but I like yours"
> 
> "never knew Appaloosas could have such nice manes, heads and tails' !
> 
> Yes, if you can't sell a foundation or coarse App horse any other way, and he has some size, then there is the attempt to sell that horse as a Sport horse, even if nothing in his background has ever done anything as a sport horse!
> 
> At one time, there was the tendency to just show loud colored Appaloosas, many of which had no ability, thus no serious recognition in that open discipline.
> That has thankfully changed, due to horses like High Sign Nugget, and my own Apps, at a smaller scale
> When Les Timmons, a well known Alberta working cowhorse trainer, who rode a lot of the high Sign Nuggets, was asked by fellow trainers, riding AQHA horses, as to how he liked showing all those spots, Les replied, " I just like riding a good working cowhorse! "
> When I showed Smilie in a large 2 year old futurity, open to all breeds (32 two year olds ), I was told by an AQHA trainer, 'good thing your horse is solid, as you will do better! :
> If you ride a loud colored App in open competition, he has to be very good, as that color will make him stand out, and still has some negative connotation associated against taking a colored horse seriously
> I tried to always breed for color, but ability came first


I agree. The old style Appaloosas are a very niche market of breeders and enthusiasts trying to keep the old lines alive. Otherwise if you want to be competitive you are going to have to accept that there will be a huge influence from the QH and Thoroughbred world. Thoroughbreds especially in the sport horse world. 

I just found out that Appaloosa mares can be bred to Knabstrupper stallions and the foal registered with the American Knabstrupper society, not sure if they are accepted into the European register though. So there is another potential influence. However, other than Colorado Skrodstrup I have not been all that impressed with the Knabstrupper studs available in the US. 

Some studs that I really like are Spot My Blue Boy:









Honkytonk Wrangler:









And Choc Full Of Chips:









I had my mare booked to Choc Full Of Chips, was very disappointed when my mare passed away before I could make that dream come true.


----------



## Fahntasia

QHDragon said:


> Honkytonk Wrangler:


Now that's a PRETTY PRETTY boy! I am definitely NOT an Appaloosa person. I prefer bays with or without chrome, long and elegant. But i would certainly make an exception for him. all i can say is wowza!:loveshower:


----------



## Smilie

Fahntasia said:


> Now that's a PRETTY PRETTY boy! I am definitely NOT an Appaloosa person. I prefer bays with or without chrome, long and elegant. But i would certainly make an exception for him. all i can say is wowza!:loveshower:


Ah yes, that black and white color!
Not a bad looking horse, but has done nothing, other then earning a reserve championship in Hunter In Hand ,a s a yearling.
When I watched that video of him coming towards the camera, don't like his front legs, as they show deviation
I always found it puzzling how to take comments, when non Appaloosa people would give me comments like the following:

_ I really don't like Appaloosas, but I like yours
-' I did not know Appaloosas could have pretty heads, manes and tails
- Never though Appaloosas could perform, and thought they were 
just an Indian breed"
Somehow, showing open, us Appaloosa people have the ingrained idea that our horses have to be very good, in order to be taken seriously, and given the placings they earn!


----------



## Smilie

I also like spot my blue boy, for a hUS horse
I am kinda confused, as to what the Op is looking for, far as an Appaloosa stallion, having at first indicated interest in working cowhorse
So, I would need further info, as to lines of mare (s), discipline interest, in order to recommend a possible stallion.
In this day and age of transported semen, I don't worry about the Stallion's location, but rather on what he has done, and how well he ships
Since the ApHC is not a closed registry, there is a great variation of type within the breed, and choice depends on goals in that breeding, mare's pedigree, as it is a well know fact you can either just breed horses, or breed like to like, horses with proven performance up close, top and bottom, to help develop a market for your program
In the latter part of my breeding days, I got interested in western pl/all around horses, thus my stallion selection also changed
I have bred mares by transported semen to Awarded ApHC and to Dont Skip This Chip, AQHA
I believe in the idea that the ApHC is a breed with a color preference, as opposed to a color breed, and that means for me and others, while we hope for color, we breed for performance first


----------



## Smilie

If you want a HUS horse, There is no comparison between Skys Blue Boy and Honky Tonk Wrangler.
Look at that knee action and topline


----------



## QHDragon

Fahntasia said:


> Now that's a PRETTY PRETTY boy! I am definitely NOT an Appaloosa person. I prefer bays with or without chrome, long and elegant. But i would certainly make an exception for him. all i can say is wowza!:loveshower:


Surprisingly he was bred and is shown as a western pleasure horse. I think he would look pretty good as a dressage horse.


----------



## QHDragon

Smilie said:


> Ah yes, that black and white color!
> Not a bad looking horse, but has done nothing, other then earning a reserve championship in Hunter In Hand ,a s a yearling.
> When I watched that video of him coming towards the camera, don't like his front legs, as they show deviation
> I always found it puzzling how to take comments, when non Appaloosa people would give me comments like the following:
> 
> _ I really don't like Appaloosas, but I like yours
> -' I did not know Appaloosas could have pretty heads, manes and tails
> - Never though Appaloosas could perform, and thought they were
> just an Indian breed"
> Somehow, showing open, us Appaloosa people have the ingrained idea that our horses have to be very good, in order to be taken seriously, and given the placings they earn!


I also don't think he was really aimed at hunter under saddle though, he seems to be producing mostly western pleasure babies.


----------



## Smilie

QHDragon said:


> Surprisingly he was bred and is shown as a western pleasure horse. I think he would look pretty good as a dressage horse.



If he was shown western pl, never heard that he did anything. His web page only has his HIH result, and then the fact that he was retired to breeding.
Yes, he is more foundation, and would work better as adressage/App sport horse
Have not seen anything about him or his babies being western pl-do you have a link?In fact, never heard of him at all!


----------



## Smilie

Not what I consider western pleasure bred, nor do I see any western pl movement.
I do see an offspring shown HUS, looking not bad, and he looks better himself, ridden HUS then any western pl picture I can see.


----------



## stevenson

I always liked the Prince Plaudit bred horses.


----------



## Smilie

Prince Plaudit was very heavily promoted by Hank Wisecamp, and a good foundation line
Far as foundation breeding, I always liked the Mighty Bright bred horses, and our last stud, in fact, was double Mighty Bright bred
He had the movement that is sought after, and the natural athletic build to make flying lead changes very easy.
We produced some nice horses by him, both bred to more 'modern ' lines, AQHA and foundation
He is in fact, Smilie's sire.
I crossed some of his daughters to AQHA champion stallions.
Far as reining/working cowhorse, can't beat the High Sign horses.


----------



## Dphoto45

My favorite appaloosa stallion Blue Ghost Wind at Gateway Farms, they have a Facebook page.


----------



## WhattaTroublemaker

Looked up quite a few thank you!! I find most of the stallions I found before are very butt-high or they looked pumped up on steriods with that new halter horse look. *bleh* I don't know why we do that, take everything unique out of a breed and make something totally different for show. Some of them have horrible conformations and I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole.


----------



## Dphoto45

*Another*

there is also Wapuzzan, he is quite the producer!


----------



## WhattaTroublemaker

So I finally got Troubles parents papers! He's got some wonderful bloodlines! His sires side goes back to poco Bueno, three bars, top deck, doc oléna, chigger, old sorrel and man o war. His appy side goes back to quite a few hall of fame horses, including bright eyes brother, old baldy, little britches k, and colida.


----------



## Smilie

The question is, how far back?
Most horses go back to some famous ancestor, but doesn't mean all that much after the first generation or so!
Which stallions have you looked at?
Are you an ApHC member, and thus get the Appaloosa Journal?


----------



## Smilie

WhattaTroublemaker said:


> Past, present, future! Since I've acquired my Appaloosa colt and finally found the papers to my old app mare, I've become very interested in the Appaloosa breed lately. We've never been into papers but we've been into apps. We've handled some VERY nice Appaloosa studs over the years, and I've considered the possibility (IF I can learn and grow and things settle within the next ten years!!) of starting to breed. But, in order to get there I need to learn. Not necessarily of the breeding basics, my whole family is knowledgable with breeding and handing studs, I can gain knowledge off of them. I'm more interested in what people want, and I'll admit, it intrigues me to look down the line and the history of the horse. For example I found out that our mare has Sundance lines way back, and Spanish mustang lines WAAAY back. So, smilie this may be one for you! What are some great studs of history, or present day, worth digging into? I enjoy the foundation type apps, not the sporty, tb cross lines of today.


back to your original post!
Far as favorite lines, gotta admit I'm partial to the Might Bright line. Our last stud was double Mighty Bright bred, and produced very versatile horses , that we sold both on this side of the ocean and on the other side
The Utes , never showed, but purely made their living raising horses, and they built there breeding program around the Bright Eyes Brother and his son, Mighty Bright lines


----------



## Smilie

Of course, I always loved the High Sign horses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZO6tSzg034
Here is Ima Docs High Sign, ridden by Shawna Sapergia . I bred my reining mare to this stallion, but unfortunately, that foal cut aback tendon in two places
Yes, an Alberta stallion!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI9GYlI-mak

Here is High Sign nugget, a horse I have bred to a few times,shown in working cowhorse, by his non pro owner
He was put down about a year ago. He was an Appaloosa stallion that really promoted the Appaloosa on the open reined cowhorse circuit,.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjLFb-nUIGs


----------



## wbwks

I have always been proud to say that in his younger days, my uncle bred and raised Appys in Northern Idaho. He owned and stood Colonel Peavy. 

He has an old oil painting of him and I would LOVE to get that painting.... It is such a folksy old painting, just really cool.


----------



## Smilie

So, I imagine he was Peavy Bimbo bred
Good foundation breeding.
There was a stud standing in my area, when I moved here some 30 years ago, that was also Peavy Bimbo bred, and was called Peavys Danny Pants
I sort of drifted towards the Bright Eyes Brother,&Mighty Bright bred horses, far as foundation lines


----------



## QHDragon

Smilie said:


> WhattaTroublemaker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Past, present, future! Since I've acquired my Appaloosa colt and finally found the papers to my old app mare, I've become very interested in the Appaloosa breed lately. We've never been into papers but we've been into apps. We've handled some VERY nice Appaloosa studs over the years, and I've considered the possibility (IF I can learn and grow and things settle within the next ten years!!) of starting to breed. But, in order to get there I need to learn. Not necessarily of the breeding basics, my whole family is knowledgable with breeding and handing studs, I can gain knowledge off of them. I'm more interested in what people want, and I'll admit, it intrigues me to look down the line and the history of the horse. For example I found out that our mare has Sundance lines way back, and Spanish mustang lines WAAAY back. So, smilie this may be one for you! What are some great studs of history, or present day, worth digging into? I enjoy the foundation type apps, not the sporty, tb cross lines of today.
> 
> 
> 
> back to your original post!
> Far as favorite lines, gotta admit I'm partial to the Might Bright line. Our last stud was double Mighty Bright bred, and produced very versatile horses , that we sold both on this side of the ocean and on the other side
> The Utes , never showed, but purely made their living raising horses, and they built there breeding program around the Bright Eyes Brother and his son, Mighty Bright lines
Click to expand...

I too am totally sold on Mighty Bright bred horses. He really stamps his children and grand children too, typically with very splashy markings. My Appaloosa mare was a descendent and I suspect my current mare may go back to him on the Appaloosa side, though I don't know for sure. She carries splash and has a lot of the same personally my Appaloosa mare did.


----------

