# Deworming twice



## Paso Fino (Mar 8, 2012)

Hello everyone. I've recently (about a week-week 1/2 ago) dewormed my mare with Durvet Pyrantel Paste that was bought from one of the local feed stores. I had been following a routine of deworming every other month, switching the type of wormer according to a chart that I can now not find. Anyways I've been doing some research and have heard from multiple places that one dose of the Pyrantel paste is usually not enough and two should be given, but they mention doing it at the same time. 

In your opinion do you think it would be ok to give another dose of the Pyrantel? I believe she is still somewhat wormy.


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

Paso, Now a days you can take a fecal sample down to your local vet and for a couple of bucks, they will tell you what kind of worms and how to treat them..
and welcome to the forum! Good luck! Susan


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

Be aware, fecal tests do not show tapeworms or encysted strongyles. You should dose spring and fall with quest plus, or a power pack and equimax or similar to cover these. Rotational deworming is no longer recomended due to parasite resistances.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I never did the every other method anyhow. I usually wormed 2-3 times a year. For sure in the spring and the fall. I just did the fecal sample for the first time and I was really surprised at which horses had the highest egg counts. So I just dewormed and will be sending off my resample in a couple of weeks to see how worked.

I sent mine off to Horsemen's Laboratory | Effective Equine Worm Control Specialists |. You buy the kits online, they send them to you right away, you sample and send them back, postage paid and they email your results to you and send a copy through the mail. I thought it was cheap, hassle free and fast.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

Pyrantel is effective for tapeworms and the recommended dose is "double dose"

Note that faecal sampling does not inform with regard to tapeworm

Appreciate that it's the gut active active ingredient Pyrantel that you can double dose with.

Pyrantel is highly effective against gut dwelling roundworms. It does not kill worm eggs, larvae, lungworms or bots. A 'double dose' is actually the 'right dose' for effective tapeworm control (tapeworm treatment is best in the spring and autumn). That's why Strongid P will also treat benzimidazole resistant strains of small redworms.

So appreciate that when saying "double dose" with Strongid P that in fact the tapeworm dose is TWICE that needed for other worms ie two syringes for an average horse.


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## Paso Fino (Mar 8, 2012)

hoopla said:


> Pyrantel is effective for tapeworms and the recommended dose is "double dose"
> 
> Note that faecal sampling does not inform with regard to tapeworm
> 
> ...


So does that mean that one tube is a double dose? Or that two tubes ( at the right weight) should be given?

Btw I have to say this forum is so much more helpful ( and nicer) than yahoo answers. Thanks so much guys
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

One dose is one tube and double dose is two for a 'normal size horse

The instructions in the packet tell you all this...... well they do in the uk anyway


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Pyrantel would require two tubes, each at the right weight. You can also give single doses of praziquantel to take care of tapeworms - these almost always come in tubes that are also mixed with ivermection as praziquantel isn't good for killing much of anything except tapeworms.

Quest Plus is a good example, it mixes moxidectin and praziquantel.


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## PaintMare (Nov 23, 2011)

I'm not trying to slam the people that deworm every month....just giving my and my vet's opinion on the subject but....its amazing now a days how many people still deworm their horses monthly or every other month. I am for one, against deworming on a monthly or every other month basis. It is sooooo unhealthy for horses to be dewormed every month!!!!! Exspeccially when most of the time the horse does not even need to be dewormed. People are shoving poisen and chemicals down their horse's throat on a monthly basis that the horse typically does not even need. People don't know for sure if the horse has the type of worm that they are deworming for. So if that type of worm is not even in the horse's body, the dewormer that you are giving them is doing no good. I might not be a professional...or a vet, but to me, giving horse's a poisenous substance when it might not be nessacary....has to be unhealthy. My vet agrees. 

So...what is a healthy way to deworm horses? Fecal exams. Most vets recommend doing a fecal exam twice a year....once in the spring and once in the fall. They are $20 around here. Basically the vet looks at the fecal sample and determines which worms the horse has. Then you worm accordingly. This way you know exactly what to deworm for...and your giving your horse the correct dewormer. No guessing....no unneeded chemicals, poisens or dewormers....and it can cut down on costs. You will also be surprised occasionally when getting fecal exam results back. Most of the time(at least for me) my horse's fecal exams will come back with no high levels of worms that I would need to deworm for. So they might not even need to be dewormed!

But again, every owner has their own opinions on this subject. And every owner should make there own decisions on what works for them and their horses...and what they believe is right or wrong. In my opinion, I believe that doing fecal exams and then deworming accordingly is the healthiest way to deworm my horses.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^

The problem is NOT that it's unhealthy. That's a pretty bold and ridiculous statement in my opinion. Dewormers are designed to be safe. If they're poison and chemicals, kindly explain how horses who are regularly dewormed live MUCH longer lives then those who aren't. Deworming every month or deworming every 3 months is not going to make any difference in the health of your horse if they're nothing but chemicals and poison as you claim.

The problem with deworming monthly and on a rotational basis is resistance. Worms have developed a tolerance to virtually every dewormer on the market except for ivermectin, and even now, they are finally showing studies of certain worms who are building up an ivermectin resistance. Vets now promote fecal counts to target exactly which worms are in a horses system to help slow this developing resistance and making deworming more effective and efficient.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

I worm twice a year and also do fecals twice a year. my horses are healthy and dont have a parasite problem. I would never worm every month or even every three months no need to worm that often.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

I happen to think the subject of equine worms is important to EVERY owner, whether they have a single horse or a herd, are a hobby owner or a professional, then you will know now. 

I've seen too many horses, cattle and sheep over my lifetime that have suffered the tragic consequences of worm burden and ineffective management. "Ineffective" is "too much" as well as "too little". 

Too much is just wasteful and expensive and IN THE LONG TERM, responsible for anthelmintic resistance. 

When the USA and Canada opted out of the global initiative to tackle that problem and went on to licence and permit the likes of daily wormers I was VERY vocal via the organisations I am a professional member of and also at a more personal level face to face with people I meet and even on forums. 

So appreciate that I don't endorse OVER worming. Or doing it too frequently. EVER. Never have done and never will do.

I've also allowed my premises and stock to be used as part of extensive research undertaken by The Royal (****) School of Veterinary Studies at Edinburgh. As a benefit of that to me and my horses, I've had the opportunity to obtain high quality leading edge research information and been able to apply considered and detailed recommendations to my horses, cattle and sheep over an extended period of time. 

The studies have been extensive not only in duration but also in the breadth of subject matters. Basically what's happened is that as the years have rolled on there's been a variety of vets who are specialising in gastroenterology, immunology, immunobiology, geneology who have particular subject specialist areas. 

So they've investigated the likes of nematodes at the DNA level, looked at optimal timings of administration of wormer in relation to lifecycles, investigated how anthelmintic resistance develops, looked at the prevalence of equine worm resistence, studied cyathostomins (small strongyles) and their ability to cause disease and particularly the link to colic, considered the effect of different sorts of pasture management, studied faecal sampling.

What is VERY well known with wormers is that it's vital to worm effectively at the right time of year with the right doseage and to ensure that you never permit large infestation.

It's known that drug resistance develops within worm populations because these populations are extremely large and because, at the DNA level, pathogens are diverse. This means that worms respond and adapt, under ‘selection pressure’ . When powerful drug treatments are applied, these act as a very powerful trigger for adaptation so that even if one in 1,000,000 worms initially has a mutation that allows it to ‘resist’ the drug, it can survive – this effect builds up over time so that if the same drug type is administered frequently over time, a significant part of the population will consist of resistant types of worms. At this stage, the drug becomes ineffective – this is either seen as an inability to reduce faecal egg counts after treatment (to levels described when the drug was first licensed) or as parasite-associated clinical disease in a group of horses which have a ‘good worming history’. 

It’s therefore important to use anthelmintic drugs by treating horses at the appropriate time of year with the correct time of wormer. Also, at certain times of the year, to target horses carrying high burdens of worms and leave those with lower burdens untreated. It is important to remember that not all horses carry similar sizes of burdens: a reasonable rule of thumb is that 20% of horses harbour 80% of the burden. This means that worm control strategies can based on targeted treatments of individual animals taking into account level of burden. Faecal egg counts at an appropriate time of year (in the UK, spring and summer) can be used to identify which horses to treat to reduce contamination onto pasture. Remember that encysted cyathostomins in the gut wall, usually at highest levels in autumn and winter, cannot be detected via faecal egg counts, and these should be treated at these times of year using an appropriate treatment that kills encysted larvae.

Again because I've seen and heard of too many horses, cattle and sheep over my lifetime that have suffered the tragic consequences of worm burden and ineffective management, I get VERY concerned when folks aren't ensuring they're keeping the burden in check. 

Over here there's a relatively high level of awareness of the risks of wormer tolerance.

I use a rotational worming programme using faecal sampling to help to inform and also taking into consideration the time of year. 

*New horses to the premises:* I always quarantine horses on arrival for 21 days and no matter what the owner tells me about worming its a condition of horses coming here that they are wormed on arrival with moxidectin and kept in a restricted paddock for two days with collection and disposal of droppings prior to any introduction to communal pasture. I then follow that with a 5 Fenbendazole course for small redworms. Then they're either blood tested or treated anyway for tapeworms and treated with "double-dose" Pyrantel P or Strongid P depending on the results. 

*For my own horses* I have faecal egg counts every 4 months and dependent on those use ivermectin or moxidectin based and normally equalan or quest. 

Spring and autumn is the time to also worm for tapeworm so then is the time to dose with Benzimidazoles or Pyrantel Embonate and for that I use Pancur, pyratape, or strongid P as well as an Invermectin which will protect against other worm infestation and including bots. 

I use a weight tape and dose appropriately - don't mind being slightly over NEVER slightly under though. Again because of the risks of wormer tolerance.


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