# Looking for the Next Horse



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I mostly agree with your assessments. 


#1 is definitely off in the hind, may even be in the hip. Why is she being taken off the track at only 3yrs old? Her feet look very odd too. Pass on this one. 

#2 has a near picture-perfect build and good age. BUT he is a bit lame, not sure exactly which leg because they wouldn't let him trot and the walk was rather sorry. 

Keep in mind TB tend to quit racing at age 7, so a 6 year old has either remained sound (until now) or he has some permanent damage that they have been treating in some fashion. Might be worth a PPE depending on what type of injury he had. I like his temperament best too. If cheap enough, you might have a good prospect. 

#3 amazingly moved soundly (only one of the three) but his back...um no. If he doesn't already have kissing spine he soon will and you have a costly pasture pet who should be able to piaffe in hand...Pass


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

number 2 is my fav, too. All of them have LONG pasterns, but since I'm not a Thbd person, it may be that I am just not useed to that. But, the first mare's pasterns are scary!


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> number 2 is my fav, too. All of them have LONG pasterns, but since I'm not a Thbd person, it may be that I am just not useed to that. But, the first mare's pasterns are scary!


LOL I thought the same thing! But my horse is so short and stocky...I'm used to looking a short pasterns too


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

For eventing I would pass on all three. Number two is the best looking but as you mentioned he's going to need some time off for some knee issue (red flag). That hip angle could make it difficult for him to do the job you want (red flag). And his neck looks a bit short which could be the camera angle (possible red flag). You've got a good eye, keep looking!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I agree that #2 is the best of the 3 but I wouldn't want any of them for all of the reasons already mentioned.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Of what you've shown #2.
All have some issues...
Some issues need to be worked with, some issues you need to run and not look back.

_Pet peeve..._
Kills me when you do a line trot exhibition and _not_ allow the horse their head and to trot!
For goodness sake put someone on the horse who can do more than a slow walk.. :icon_rolleyes:
Based on that alone, what it is they only want you to see walking. :|
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Agree that #2 is the best of the bunch but I'd pass on all of them.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Yep, each one of them is uhhhh, nope.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Here are some things I've learned from getting my OTTB this year. 

Something to be aware of is that Mr. Prospector was a very popular sire, although he had a crooked front leg, offset knees, broke down unsound before he was used for breeding and had some of the straightest hind leg conformation you can get. Plus very small hooves.
There have been sound great athletes from his bloodlines but those have been less common than the unsound horses with bad legs.

It is very common to have expensive or frustrating issues with OTTBs. Their breeding obviously heavily focuses on speed and not on longevity or economy of care. 
With straight hind legs you will have the risk of locking stifles (which my horse has) that require a lot of management, and won't make a good jumper.
I'd say focus mostly on the hind end conformation, straightness of the legs, and hooves. Most TBs have a good shoulder and decent neck.

Most TBs have bad hooves so you want to find the best ones you can. Even with good care and supplements they will be too small, thin walls, flat soles. I'd avoid any horse with worse than average hooves. 

Many TBs have crooked front legs, so be sure to look straight on and see if the forelegs angle out from the knees, if the knees turn or out, or if the hooves turn in or out. Also look to see if the horse is over or back at the knee. 

In the horses you posted, I'm not seeing any good movers. I'd start there, looking for horses that will at least track up at the walk and appear very sound at the trot without any hesitation, slapping or loss of rhythm. @DanteDressageNerd found a very nice OTTB, a great mover, so they are out there. However, you will also find that these are often more expensive because they have been identified as good prospects for dressage or jumping. 
Of course you also may end up with a great mover and a very hot temperament.

I'd be very wary of "temporary" lameness issues. My friend bought a beautiful horse at the track this year and he was slightly lame, but was missing a shoe. She bought him because the sellers didn't know of any other issues. He was 6. He never became sound and is already having to be retired to a light using home. This is the third OTTB they have either put down or retired before age 12 in the past several years due to major joint/arthritis or tendon issues. The other two were given to them by people who didn't use them but thought they were sound.

My own is not going to be a "hard using" horse either (age 10), because of his stifle issues and probably early arthritis. I'd just assume that anything short of super sound and beautiful movement is related to some major problem brewing. Anything that looks like acting up might also be from a physical issue. I'm learning that many of the rehoming or rescue places are getting the less physically apt horses while the top prospects are pulled out and sold. 
One option is to find one that someone bought as a prospect, picked out by a pro and vetted extensively but temperament not suitable for the rider or discipline.


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## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

@ClearDonkey - I found my OTTB through a very reputable organization that takes care of the letdown process, vetting, etc. Horses are not adopted out unless they pass an evaluation and are sound, sane, and easy to handle. If they cannot be adopted out, they stay with them for life. I told them what I was looking for and that's exactly what I got.

My horse had a small tendon tear and he stayed with them through the vetting, rehab, and letdown. When he came to me, they supplied me with his vet and maintenance records showing he had multiple x-rays through the rehab process, chiropractor, dentist- they even documented his farrier visits. I paid for his shipping only. I had his conformation and pedigree evaluated before deciding, and they kept me updated on his progress. He arrived in July and has been exactly as they said. Below is his track photo and a couple photos from yesterday. I am enamored with him. If you are interested, feel free to send me a PM, and I will send you their info.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

I think you've gotten some really good advice here. gottatrot has shared some really important information with buying an ottb

I also suggest doing a medical exam when you bring them home and inject if anything needs injecting (when you inject it is NOT necessarily a lifelong thing) sometimes these horses have been used hard and just need the injection to bring down the inflammation and allow the affected area to heal. Also meso, chiropractic and teeth. I think that is a good start (I know expensive) but long term I think it helps prevent a lot of problems down the road. 

As for the 3, number 2 is best for an eventing prospect but clearly needs some work. I wouldn't write him off but I'd check his SI and stifles. Needing SI injections is NOT uncommon and chiropractic work. I wonder with the first two if chiropractic work and an SI or stifle injections might be the issue with the hind end because they do not move right through the pelvis. 


Mine is not a typical ottb. I've retrained quite a few and he's the trickiest, hottest and strongest of them. Not at all what I'd call a typical ottb. Very funny about contact at times, even with teeth done. Most ottbs I think are pretty straight forward to re-train and pretty straight forward in the contact. Honest in their work. But they prefer a regular work week, they're not generally something you can leave in the pasture for a week, hop on and ride into the sunset. They need a job.

However I STRONGLY suggest aceing them for at least a week when you first turn them out and take your time bringing them back with in hand and ground work. I always do a ton before getting on. Also tack walk. Put their tack on, keep the noseband and flash loose and graze them like that. They often associate tack with adrenaline and work, so some (like mine) will just start sweating and get tense from tack but if you tack and hand graze. It starts teaching them to associate tack with relaxation. I also did a TON of desensitization and trust building exercises, a lot of natural horsemanship. 

This is Wonder when I went to the racetrack






track video. This is actually why I had to see him, I had never seen a thoroughbred use their hind end like Wonder before. He has more natural "sit" than most wbs. However with his type for low level, he will NOT score well. He is very much an "upper level" type, carries too much tension, sits too much and very hard to get to track up. He's too uphill and want to collect too much. I wouldn't have chose him as an eventing prospect, he would not score well in the lower level tests. They want to see a horse that clearly tracks up and is naturally more relaxed in the body. He's also EXTREMELY bouncy, most tbs are not that bouncy, so to most people I would not suggest getting something that has quite so much back movement. I knew he'd be bouncy from watching his back and hind end. He also doesn't like to jump which you don't know from the track.

I have had his SI injected, PRP on his stifles, meso therapy, teeth done, flocked saddle to fit him multiple times (picky), and it's cost me more to "get him dressage sound" then to purchase him and he was "pricey" for an ottb but very well bred. Retired at 7, clean xrays and very well cared for. A lot of love went into this horse. This one is also VERY VERY hot, unusually hot for an ottb and extremely smart (not always a good thing). Definitely a professional-only type unfortunately. This is not likely the type you will find but the thing is when going to the race track, you don't know until they cool out and that can take months. This guy was a 2hrs a day 6 days a week type horse for a long and that is with 8+hrs of turnout and a "cool" but high fat diet. But this is a GP dressage prospect, he's a good type with the GP being the goal but he's not going to shine until 4th level+


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

gottatrot said:


> Here are some things I've learned from getting my OTTB this year.
> 
> Something to be aware of is that Mr. Prospector was a very popular sire, although he had a crooked front leg, offset knees, broke down unsound before he was used for breeding and had some of the straightest hind leg conformation you can get. Plus very small hooves.
> There have been sound great athletes from his bloodlines but those have been less common than the unsound horses with bad legs.
> ...


Luckily I don't have to buy one immediately, and I have been checking the ads weekly! These three horses were specifically at the lower end of my budget, the first being $1,200 and the others being $650. Right now, it seems like anything with the word "prospect" attached is doubled or tripled in price - for a horse that knows how to do the same thing as all of the others. I'm trying to find a "diamond in the rough" or at least something that isn't $4,000 that can only lose at the racetrack!

I'm usually a big stickler on buying anything with lameness issues or potential lameness issues, as I currently have a horse that has never taken a lame step in his life, and I would prefer another just like that! I have been trying to keep an eye out for horses that have already been picked out, especially by the Canter run organizations, but many of them are restarted and I would really like to have the experience of an OTTB from scratch. There is a place in New York that has MANY nice ones going in and out of their doors, they currently are just too far away for it to be realistic.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Tihannah said:


> @ClearDonkey - I found my OTTB through a very reputable organization that takes care of the letdown process, vetting, etc. Horses are not adopted out unless they pass an evaluation and are sound, sane, and easy to handle. If they cannot be adopted out, they stay with them for life. I told them what I was looking for and that's exactly what I got.
> 
> My horse had a small tendon tear and he stayed with them through the vetting, rehab, and letdown. When he came to me, they supplied me with his vet and maintenance records showing he had multiple x-rays through the rehab process, chiropractor, dentist- they even documented his farrier visits. I paid for his shipping only. I had his conformation and pedigree evaluated before deciding, and they kept me updated on his progress. He arrived in July and has been exactly as they said. Below is his track photo and a couple photos from yesterday. I am enamored with him. If you are interested, feel free to send me a PM, and I will send you their info.


I absolutely love this horse and I love watching your journey with him! I will definitely be PM'ing you for this information, and hopefully the organization is somewhat close to me!


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

4. Seeking Due Time - 6 year old Mare - Pennsylvania 















I am a big fan of this lady, mostly because of her movement, but also because I love greys. Her legs aren't twigs, her pasterns aren't super long and slopey, plus that shoulder...Her hip could be laid back a tad more, and her hinds are a bit cow-hocked, but I'm not upset at her appearance whatsoever. Her back is a bit longer that what I'd like, but I didn't mind owning and riding a horse with that long of a back before. 

Also, because she is a bit older, I checked her racing history and to my surprise, she wasn't raced until she was 4 years old, and only raced two complete seasons with a gap year between. The seller noted that the gap year was not soundness related.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I got my OTTB over 4mos ago. She broke her ankle on the track almost 2 years ago (she's now 5). Her racing owners paid for all of the vet bills, she was rehabbed, & she is completely sound. They were going to euthanize her right on the track, but her racing owners knew she was special.

She is also barefoot, which is not very common for most tb's. I have a really good farrier too, which makes a difference. Her feet weren't so nice when I got her (the farrier sucked that they were using). She's very sure-footed.

I do NOT think you necessarily need to 'ace' when you bring them home...it's not always necessary, especially since they will just be grazing/settling in. Let them graze & be a horse. My old BO used to ace my horse a lot (well, before she was mine of course), & I was LIVID! She did NOT need ace at ALL. LOL, no need for that. People ace to cover up issues, when really they should work the issues out, NOT ace. Just my opinion. My old BO would ace her (before I got her) when, it didn't fix any issues...just covered them up. :icon_rolleyes:

Get them comfortable with you first, and take it slow. No rush. 

My horse had zero ground manners & zero ground training, but I have been putting all the work in. Groundwork, constantly.

IF the horse won't respect you on the ground, they won't respect you in the saddle. Period. Most people just get on & ride, no, I feel like groundwork is way more important. I DO ride my mare, but I am focusing on groundwork moreso because it will help us under saddle, & it has so far.

You need patience, confidence, & they will teach you a lot about yourself.  They are very bold & willing, they will give you their ALL, but they demand your respect.

IF the horse is totally right off the track, you give them time off at first - you don't hop right on & start riding them/tiring them out. That's just my opinion, but they need more time to settle in than other horses.

My horse was originally from Thoroughbred Placement Resources. They are very good & reputable, located in MD, but very very good.

It's important to get them from a place like @Tinahannah suggested. This way, you will have confidence that your horse will be sound, etc.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Please make decisions of "aceing", aka tranquilizing, any horse be on a horse by horse evaluation.
So much needs to go into making that kind of decision...
How long has the horse been off the track?
When was the last work?
Did the horse retire sound or is there a underlying medical reason for retirement?
What is the personality and attitude of the horse present as?
Has the horse ever know t/o except as a true baby?
What kind of facility is the horse going to?
How experienced are the handlers handling a "up" ex-racer?
How much time has elapsed since the horse was kept and worked on the track, in face-fit form?

_There is no blanket statement about do this do that...._
There _*is*_ a need to safeguard the horse from injuring itself when it learns and is re-discovering being a horse...
To much to soon and disaster could strike...
A vet though should be the one administering as no two animals may react the same to drugs either...
A super knowledgeable horse-person in lieu of a vet..._maybe._
Till you know what you are dealing with and animal specific...vet guidance and administering of drugs to me is the way to go if needed.
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

I think the grey mare might be nice. It's SO hard to judge their potential from the videos they show. Most horses dont move that well in hand, unless trained to present a certain way. When I had to preset horses at warmblood inspections you do a lot to figure out how to get them really animated and show their best movement. There is a whole art to it but you practice at home. Ton of running patterns and in hand work and with someone else with a plastic bag and teaching them to become "passagey."

She is quite long in the loin and flatter in the croup with her stifle position, not really built to "sit and load behind." If you're looking for a low-mid level event prospect I wouldn't worry about this. If you were looking for an upper level dressage prospect I'd say no. Longer in the waist like she is, is actually good for laterals and makes them more flexible with more reach and it's physically easier for them. However collection and piaffe, passage, pirouettes is much harder for them. She's also downhill and moves downhill which can be corrected and worked with but not an upper level dressage prospect but very well might be a good low to mid level eventer. Might jump well though. Don't know if she will or wont, would have to see her in action. Sometimes conformation can be misleading.

If you get one from a rescue group and they have already "come down" from the track and been handled by experienced people then it isn't necessary but if you get one straight from the race track, it is a different matter. They are usually more expensive straight from the track than if you buy through a rescue group. I also agree with Allison and Tina on looking at a rescue group, getting them straight from the track really is a process and it can require expert handling and it's not that the horse is bad but it takes time for them to come down. And it takes time to see their true personality. With a rescue group they know the horse. Have them basically started and you don't have to worry about the transitioning time which can be a LOT of work.

It's a very different thing getting an ottb straight off of the race track vs through a group or situation where they've already been off the track a while. The winding down period is quite something, when Wonder came off the truck. His owner warned he thinks he's here to race because that's his life. He wasn't kidding, he had aced him before he came (Wonder basically lived on ace when at the track) he's not naughty just SO SO intense. He's calmed down but he's still an intense horse (note he is unusual, most calm down and are good to go) but he was a winner and you don't always know which are like him from the track. A perfectly calm-good horse could be intense, rearing and hard charging at the track and in this life style but perfect once brought down. I had a lady who was a vet and used to work on a race track for a while said ace them for about a week before you turn them out to avoid serious injury and create good turnout habits. It isn't the same as just bringing a horse home. Of course work with a vet to figure out the correct dosage but I'd rather be safe than sorry when bringing a horse home straight from the track. The whole point of it isn't to cover up issues but to prevent them from hurting themselves or hurting you and to help create good habits as they settle into their new life. They are used to working HARD almost everyday. They are incredibly fit and on a very high octane diet, they are used to being stalled and MAYBE hand grazed. It's not the same. 

New Vocations

https://thehorse.com/111380/retired-racehorses-transitioning-from-racetrack-to-ribbons/

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/145211/feed-for-speed


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## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

I am actually VERY glad I did not decide to buy straight from the track. In a boarding situation, I think it would've been just too hard for me to keep the horse safe. North had one explosion on the 2nd day he arrived from the touching the electric fencing, and I am lucky he wasn't seriously injured. I just don't have enough experience handling hotter horses as I've always had a senior horse that's been there done that. Because he had 4 months off before he came to me, I only had to get him settled into a new place and routine. By the 4th or 5th day, he was much more relaxed and at ease, yet I still got a clean slate, as he had never been started under saddle outside of the track.

I think the track horses do bring a lot of benefits in regards to handling though, as long as they aren't super hot. On day one, he stepped off the trailer and walked into his new stall with ease. I could throw tack on him, tie him, saddle him, and bathe him. He didn't bat an eye at anything, and it was because of all the handling he got at the track. For that, I was very grateful.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

DanteDressageNerd said:


> It's a very different thing getting an ottb straight off of the race track vs through a group or situation where they've already been off the track a while. The winding down period is quite something, when Wonder came off the truck. His owner warned he thinks he's here to race because that's his life. He wasn't kidding, he had aced him before he came (Wonder basically lived on ace when at the track) he's not naughty just SO SO intense. He's calmed down but he's still an intense horse (note he is unusual, most calm down and are good to go) but he was a winner and you don't always know which are like him from the track. A perfectly calm-good horse could be intense, rearing and hard charging at the track and in this life style but perfect once brought down. I had a lady who was a vet and used to work on a race track for a while said ace them for about a week before you turn them out to avoid serious injury and create good turnout habits. It isn't the same as just bringing a horse home. Of course work with a vet to figure out the correct dosage but I'd rather be safe than sorry when bringing a horse home straight from the track. The whole point of it isn't to cover up issues but to prevent them from hurting themselves or hurting you and to help create good habits as they settle into their new life. They are used to working HARD almost everyday. They are incredibly fit and on a very high octane diet, they are used to being stalled and MAYBE hand grazed. It's not the same.
> 
> New Vocations
> 
> ...


I will probably have to get a horse that has been off the track for a while, since hearing everyone's personal experiences. I would really, _really_ prefer one straight off the track so I could have the entire experience, as I eventually want to regularly, once life allows. I have been browsing sale ads pretty consistently on FB, and a few OTTB's have popped up that haven't looked too bad, but are usually above the age range I'd like to purchase in. 

I totally forgot about New Vocations, and found a horse I really liked that was listed, until I read one of the adoption requirements of "Minimum Salary of $35,000 Required". Well, I won't be in that situation for another year or two, which is unfortunate. Right now I live in a dirt-cheap cost of living area, and pay $150/month for FULL-CARE board, and once I move back home I will be paying for feed only. It's unfortunate that I am immediately tossed out of the pool of potential adopters, even though the chosen horse would have at least 6 months of let-down time and imo, a pretty great home. 

I have been keeping an eye on the CANTER-owned listings, but they are very sparse for my state - and the one's available in my state all appear to be VERY hunter-jumper oriented, which I'm not crazy about. At this point, I'm considering picking up just a project horse for next summer to train, compete, and then sell, but it is hard to make a decent profit doing that. Ugh! Why does horse shopping have to be so difficult?


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

This is a general question about old injuries in OTTB's: Is there a real risk to adopting a OTTB that has been rehabbed for an injury - whether it be a strained or bowed tendon? I stumbled upon a really, REALLY nice mare that has an old bow and has been rehabbed for a strained tendon. Completely sound, vet sees neither causing any future issues, listed as an upper level event prospect by a seemingly-reputable organization.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

ClearDonkey said:


> This is a general question about old injuries in OTTB's: Is there a real risk to adopting a OTTB that has been rehabbed for an injury - whether it be a strained or bowed tendon? I stumbled upon a really, REALLY nice mare that has an old bow and has been rehabbed for a strained tendon. Completely sound, vet sees neither causing any future issues, listed as an upper level event prospect by a seemingly-reputable organization.


Most horses with a bowed tendon recover completely, although a small percentage continue to have soundness problems. 
That being said, I've never heard of one being recommended for upper level eventing, even if they might do a decent level of jumping. It seems pretty extreme to think a horse with a previous tendon injury would be able to gallop around in that type of footing, make the tight turns and huge jumps. The more visible the bow is, the more damage the tendon sustained. There will be scar tissue regardless, which is never going to be quite as strong as healthy tissue.

If the tendon injury was over a year ago and the horse has been in a normal level of work for several months, you should be fine. If the injury is more recent or the horse has not yet been rehabbed, I know it can be tricky rehabbing a tendon injury. It takes a lot of dedication and you have to get the horse in shape very, very carefully in order to not lose the progress you've made. This can be trickier with a young hotblood. My friend's horse was very difficult in the early stages and everything has to be considered from the footing to the right type of leg support to how long the horse should just walk, just trot, and finally be introduced to light cantering.

When you say an old bow and strained tendon, I assume you are talking about one injury. If you are talking about more than one incident, I would definitely pass because it is most likely due to a conformation or interference problem that is probably going to occur again. Or the horse may have DSLD, which is progressive and will lead to an unusable horse in time. It is often discovered after two or three tendon injuries, even ones that seem to have been caused by an accident such as putting a foot through a fence. 

If the horse is completely sound and already in hard work, I'd still assess the conformation very carefully to see if there was a reason for the injury that would also make the horse at risk for another one. Such as very long pasterns, offset legs, very poor hoof angles, etc.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Just to tell the other side, I boarded with a couple at the time in their late 50's. The husband decided he wanted a OTTB because he had met a lady on line from Arizona that was selling OTTB straight from the tract to keep them out of the slaughter house when they were retired. She would have a list of all times of currently racing horses that would be good prospects for life after the track. 

So he bought one sight unseen, for $800, including delivery to Alabama. He sent it directly to a TB breeder/owner we know for a month of retraining. He came back perfectly ridable for his owners, and they were not expert riders by any means. The husband had only been riding for a year, and the wife had had horses in her youth with no training of any sort, and had been riding for two years recently. They were both beginners…

So he decides to buy another one, since they were sharing this one horse and were so happy with him. 

OTTB #2 arrives and the husband states he's not sending it for retraining, he's just going to ride the horse as is! 


Thus on Saturday this 7 yr old gelding ran his last race (came in third btw) and is loaded up in the Arizona woman's trailer as he leaves the track. He arrives in Alabama the next Saturday, 7 days later (after a short stay at her place). The very next day, Sunday, the husband got on this horse in the 100 foot radius round pen, and rode him around!! 


We were all expecting fireworks and a bruised and battered rider, but none of that happened. He walked and trotted only, and other than a little tail swishing the horse was fine. So the guy rode him for about 20 minutes and after that day proceeded as normal. 

The horse never did a thing wrong...ridden 8 days after his last race by a beginner rider after traveling a few states. No Bute, no retraining, no down time. 

Point being, not every OTTB needs specialized "down time" if they have a good attitude. They are used to stalls, used to travel, used to being tacked up, shod, and used to being ridden daily. Well "broke" as some would say...


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Yes, I've also ridden and been around OTTBs that were completely suitable for beginners and came that way from the track. Even though they did their job of running at the track, it was not their natural inclination to burn energy, and they were mellow and unflappable even as young horses. Some are big, sweet babysitters.


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## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

I didn't read all the posts, but I think you can find what you are looking for for around 5k, or maybe less in certain situations. I don't mind some of the stuff from the first horses, for the price it seems ok, but I'm not sure about the long run on those guys. 
I have a different take on some of this stuff from what I did read, and I see some posts telling a similar story. 
I trained and broke my OTTB, which is probably not typical. He was so easy as a baby, and he was fast at the track. When the owner became sick she asked if I wanted him. I did have a vet check him and he was completely sound. I had him shipped to where I now live. 
He is so quiet and well mannered for a 4yo, he babysits my boyfriend who has only ridden 3 horses in his life up until a couple weeks ago. He takes this horse out and rides him every day and he is super quiet and just packs him around. He has good feet and is barefoot. I ride him too and while he is a bit bouncy, he is an athlete and should make a decent jumping or dressage horse, but needs some gait improvement, and he has a few minor conformation issues, little straight through his shoulder and is a tiny bit camped under. He can be a show horse but won't be that one who's in the blue at every show they step foot into. 

You could see if the people who are selling the horses you have shown us here have any other horses that they might consider selling. I find most TB people have a few of them lying around and might have something they aren't advertising but also don't have plans for. The track trainers may also know of some horses that aren't advertised online but are available. You might try doing some networking to find one in addition to looking online. 

I'm glad you are looking around early, I'm sure your patience will really pay off for you! Good luck!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

My friend on LI owned a rehab barn business for Thoroughbreds.
I worked with her for years...
She/I saw all kinds of injuries from soft tissue to fractures...
With care and proper attention, time to heal there was not one horse who crossed her barn entry that could not go on to a high level of competition riding career.
Don't let a old injury deter you...
I will say that when those horses came off the truck they came straight from the track and some were very "up" and hard to handle, most were very curious and up but not uncontrollable nor nasty...they were in a atmosphere/place new to them and needed some time to just settle in.
Most of them though had few manners like you expect. They were impatient and stomped legs, moved and wiggled, the worst being their teeth were fast to snap and connect.
Thoroughbreds that have been on the track have been exposed to so much stuff most never realize...and deal with it just fine.
They are bathed daily, have stalls cleaned with them in it, have people and other horses walking past their stalls all morning long, are groomed, have leg wraps applied, medical care and can pee on command.
Often they are better "trained" than people realize...some actually have had basic dressage put on them as a balanced horse who knows how to move their body can move through traffic and excel in tight confines, protect their body from exhaustion and just move better = faster = race winner.

As for no horses in your area...there are such things as shipping companies.
Although it will cost you a bit more, don't not consider out of state horses.
You may need to buy from a video and trust what the organization tells you, but those organizations are looking to get good homes for the animals and no reason to lie.
I did look at Canter-Michigan and saw a few with possibility.
I personally would not want the 3 year old who is still truly years out from being put to a work regime because of immature body, mind, bones not yet caught up...
There is a beauty in a youngster, there is a practicality in having a mature body with not much done to it.. :|
I would expand your search area...and if you see something, quickly make a phone call for more information.
Get a PPE on any horse coming from the track environment.
Get any background information offered.
Then get a stall ready if you are trusting and act fast....
There are no guarantees and realize a "green" youngster is not going to do much more than w/t/c in person or seen in a video.
Your evaluation is not that much different in person or on a computer screen.
Personal contact, sure... but many horses aren't personality plus when they only knew a "working environment"...
Personality nuances blossoms later with one owner and daily contact with firm boundaries for behaviors expected and made that also include training attitude.
Each horse is a individual in attitude. 
Laid back can be but a work ethic excelled is often common.
Thoroughbreds are so often able to do so many varied occupations if just given a chance...:smile:

:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

My horse broke one of her ankles on the racetrack 2 years ago. They were going to euthanize her right on the track, but her racing owners knew she was special & they ended up paying for her surgery. After the surgery, she was completely rehabbed. I have the X-rays & everything, it's pretty amazing.
I got her knowing about this (she is now 5) & it didn't deter me one bit. I knew what I wanted to do with her - trails, & just English pleasure, maybe some dressage. 
She is sound, no issues. I do keep her on a joint supplement. Her ankle does not ever bother her, she has never been lame (*knocks on wood*) etc.

She has some fatty tissue on that ankle, so I can tell which one was the 'bad' one, she is a bit protective of that leg which makes sense. But nope...no issues.  
HOWEVER, I would not jump my mare. Over little logs on the trail is fine, but anything higher, nope...wouldn't do it.

It all depends.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

horselovinguy said:


> As for no horses in your area...there are such things as shipping companies.
> Although it will cost you a bit more, don't not consider out of state horses.
> You may need to buy from a video and trust what the organization tells you, but those organizations are looking to get good homes for the animals and no reason to lie.
> I did look at Canter-Michigan and saw a few with possibility.


The only problem with going through a shipping company is that I live at the Northern-most point of the upper peninsula of Michigan. It would be one thing if I lived in the lower peninsula, but the cost really adds up going through the UP. My favorite horses for sale through Canter USA are in Delaware and Pennsylvania...that is nearly 1,000 miles away, and at the shipping prices I found, I would be paying nearly $1,200+ just to get the horse here. That is a majority of my budget. 

I am open to using a shipping company, but then the horse pretty much has to come from the western United States, and other than Minnesota, the options are too far away. There is a chance I could ship the horse to my parent's house, and then pretty-please my way into them transporting the rest of the way..but winter is about to begin and I wouldn't want to trailer over ice.

Hopefully something will pop up just as the snow is mostly melted, and I can pick something up right away, but so far it doesn't look like that will happen.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Well ... I have messaged on a few horses for sale, and may be looking one next weekend:

1. Flute - 5 year old, unraced TB. Schooling dressage with lots of lateral work. Moves beautifully, screams eventer to me. But the kicker, he nicked the tendon sheath in one of his hind legs. Went from non-weight bearing on the leg to pretty sound in a month. A vet is looking at him next week, and if he says good things, I will be going to look. Listed for $1,500, firm.

I'm waiting for responses on a coming 2 yr old TB mare, and an 8 yr old Grade gelding that would be a retraining project.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

for your first ottb i would not advise one straight off the track. you will get your complete experience eventually - maybe your second, but not your first. set yourself up for success now and a good experience. I see many here have been burned by OTTB shopping, but i also see many if not all got horses who did not go through a rehab program first. What else can you expect? If you choose this route you almost inevitably will be faced with the same issues CANTER and New Vocations do, but don't talk about because the horses you see advertised have been cared for. It will be extremely, extremely expensive and nail-biting if you get one from the back stretch, because you WILL run into lameness issues of some sort. Throw out the idea of finding a "sound horse." But "lame" doesn't always mean forever. A lot of what posters are seeing as lameness is normal track soreness. You need to be able to see comformation faults that would lend to the lameness and based on those generally assume that is where the lameness is coming from. If you see few or no conformation faults (though there's always one) that could attribute to whatever lameness you are looking at, assume the lack of soundness is due to muscle strain. That's fixable.

When you get from the track never, ever go in with the idea that "if the horse doesn't work out, I can sell it." That's like buying a cheap saddle, it breaking, and expecting to be able to move it to a new home. Not possible and also not ethical. If you feel comfortable caring for a very young retiree and a horse you can ride, take the chance and buy the $400 three year old. If you don't feel like you can have a horse forever, go through the adoption agency.

This is very important, as it is not the horse's fault for being listed at a low price. You get what you buy, but sometimes track people don't know what they have. They have a horse who can't race and they don't see value in it past its racing years so they throw a low price tag on it. That's what happened to mine. You want to find that diamond in the rough. You need to look PAST the surface (everyone on this thread can take this advice!!!!) and look beyond the thin, wasp-waisted, skinny baby. Imagine the horse three years down the road, filled out and fit. Will its conformation lend to this? Can you visualize the horse being anything more than it is? If so, it should be on your short list of candidates.

Conformation is the next best thing you can look at besides soundness. Toss soundness out the window right now. Go in knowing you aren't looking at your 80,000 warmblood, you are looking at an athlete that is constantly pushed nearly over its breaking point in every race it runs. That's got to take a toll on the body. Look at how the horse uses itself. Is it seriously laboring ONE leg? or does it just seem to move stiffly, choppily, shortly? Contribute that to normal body stiffness. 

Be reminded these horses are NOT. CHEAP. as @gottatrot sadly found out, you will be paying your 10,000 purchase price somewhere else: the vet's office. a 650 thoroughbred will come out to about 10650 at the end of it all, after the bodywork, the lameness exams, the injections, the rehab, the shoes, etc. If you buy one right from your racetrack, you'll be paying the same price you would for a CANTER horse or a horse listed through a reputable website/agent. 

So why get one from the track? Well, you will be able to find your diamond in the rough because so many see these horses as washed out failures and cant imagine them in a second career. Hold your cards to your chest and watch their videos, watch their eyes, watch how they interact with their handler? Are they charged up ready for the next race? Are they poking along slowly? Has the light left their gaze? Do you see a look of anger, rage, hurt or betrayal?

Look for the horse itching for its next race. That's your winner. That's the one who will be right there with you for competition, engine fired and ready to take you to the top. 

Lame, sound, whatever. A lot of these issues can be fixed but it takes time and dedication. For OTTBs, especially considering they aren't going to be as rideable right off the bat, you must *fall in love* with your new prospect.

That is why I have mine. I love her. She is my entire world, and here are her issues:
1. Sesamoid fracture, 2 years old and set but weak point. Most likely won't jump
2. Weak stifle due to conformation. Have to constantly work her. Can't slack off.
3. Flat feet. Gets thrush easily and white line. Can't go barefoot.
4. Back issues. Needs perfectly fitting saddle. Cannot get an off-the-rack whatever. 
5. Colic case. We just had another emergency trip to the vet's office. On a very very regulated diet.
6. Hoof infections. Stall MUST stay clean. I sweep and scrub mats EVERY day. Bedding CANNOT be wet.
7. Supplements: probiotics (colic), tri-amino (lack of protein), ulcergard (gets ulcers), electrolytes (doesn't drink)
8. Cribs. Makes her prone to colic/relating to ulcers
9. Extremely emotional under saddle. This horse has seriously hurt me. I cannot translate most of how I ride her to other horses. She has an intense expectation of justice and everything I do must be fair in her eyes.
10. SI issues. From racing or her other careers we aren't sure. I pay a lot for chiro/massage.

You know why I spend all my money (and i'm not rich by any means) on this horse? Because when she looks at me I can hear her voice. And I have never, ever had such a strong, intense, metaphysical, supernatural connection to any equine before her. If it weren't for her I wouldn't know even half of what I know about horse care. Having to take care of all of her issues, create her perfect environment, and ride her the way she wants has made me a more empathetic human being. And in repayment for how well I take care of her she has become the best, most focused, most determined competition mount I could ever buy. She makes the warmbloods look cheap. and I only paid $1000 for this horse.

She has been praised by more than one grand prix trainer for her hind end and strength and ability to sit and collect, and as a dressage rider this is what I need. two high-level trainers now have asked me if I am going GP with her. We are just starting at training, but she has the potential to take me all the way if I take care of her.

My point of this post is a lot of people dismissed this horse as never being anything of value, for the reasons a lot of these posters have commented on. But I chose to see beyond what I saw when I went to pick her up, knowing that wouldn't be forever. And she got right on that trailer home without a second thought, and we've been together ever since. I know that she probably will not be sound forever, and will retire young, and I am prepared for this. But knock on wood, it's been three years and we still haven't come close to any of the scary potential injuries that were listed to me when I got her.

Now I have the attention of a lot of people who are very interested in us, and many cannot believe she is a TB because, like Wonder, she very big-bodied and has nice movement. 

I would never sell this horse on. Not only because she is my diamond, but EASILY someone who does not understand her could get seriously hurt or seriously hurt her. 

Good luck with your search! I am always here to answer questions about shopping.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

thecolorcoal said:


> This is very important, as it is not the horse's fault for being listed at a low price. You get what you buy, but sometimes track people don't know what they have. They have a horse who can't race and they don't see value in it past its racing years so they throw a low price tag on it. That's what happened to mine. You want to find that diamond in the rough. You need to look PAST the surface (everyone on this thread can take this advice!!!!) and look beyond the thin, wasp-waisted, skinny baby. Imagine the horse three years down the road, filled out and fit. Will its conformation lend to this? Can you visualize the horse being anything more than it is? If so, it should be on your short list of candidates.


Funny you mention looking for a diamond in the rough ... as for now, I have begun looking at the young horses that never made it to the trainer's to go to the track. There are three that I have my eye on right now, and I'm just deciding if I would rather pay $500 to purchase and $1,000+ to ship, or if I should stop looking for a decent TB and switch to finding a project horse to train and sell. Right now my goals with whatever I end up with is to:

Train and Keep as my Next Personal Horse
Train to see if it could be my Next Personal Horse, otherwise Sell
Train to Resell Only
With one of the horses that I am interested in that is not a TB, it is in the middle category - older than what I'd like, but it has the potential to be my next forever horse. If not, it would be an easy resell because of the color aspect of the horse.

But, back to the diamonds in the rough, here are the most recent horses I have been coming back to, time and time again:

1. Sun Of An Indian - 3 yr old - Gelding - PA - $500
The seller noted that his right fore toes out and lands differently than the left, but that doesn't bother me as much compared to other conformational flaws, as long as he can move without tripping all over. I personally like the look of this guy, he is built very evenly, and has a decent shoulder and decent hip. Very kind expression and face. The only thing that could be concerning is the length of his pasterns, but I don't think they are awful. I feel like he could be a cute horse for someone if he wouldn't work out for me, but I do love my bays.










2. Two Timing Man - 4 yr old - Gelding - PA - $500
This guy could be a bad luck charm with his name, but I think he could be a good resell prospect as he is shorter than what I'd like (14.2). I like the substance of bone that he stands on compared to #1, and his body is also very balanced. He does potentially look over at the knee, but the footing is also bad. I could see this guy turning into a gaming horse where I'm at, but maybe he could surprise me and turn into a nice all-arounder like my horse is. I like his shoulder, and he has a nice big hip, but he still looks a bit 'young', but time could fix that. 










3. I Love My Bicycle - 7 yr old - Mare - PA - $500
The seller described her as a diamond in the rough, and she looks like it. I like her shoulder, hip, and substance in her legs, but she looks pretty awkward. Her neck is upside down, and she has a LONG back. Her hip could be a bit longer, but as she is, I could see her being a cute jumper prospect for local shows. She is broke undersaddle, but I do not know the extent of that. The thing I like about her most is her movement, shown in the video. I could see her being a nice competition horse, once the overall picture improves. The one thing I don't like is that she is shoed all around for a pasture horse.
















If I were to buy one of these today, I think I would choose #1 or #3 as the best prospects for what I want, with #1 above #3, just because he is barefoot. I think #2 would be a great resale project for where I live, because he has the height and "stock-breed" look to sell as a trail/gaming horse.

I would also like opinions on them! I believe 2 or all of them are at the same barn, so it would be much easier to go look at them and decide, rather than choosing purely based on their pictures.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

@ClearDonkey - here is the problem with horses who don't make it to the track: why?


Why didn't they make it? Was it soundness? Was it bad attitude? Could it not get into the starting gate?


Be very careful of the "unraced" horses. It takes a lot for someone, especially someone who is in it for the money, NOT to race a horse. These are more often than not the ones with severe behavioral or lameness issues as they could not stand up to the pressure of racing.


A horse who is a warhorse and retired sound is a better prospect than a 3 year old who never made it to the track.


My horse raced for 2 years. She allegedly retired sound, although getting straight answers from her trainer is near impossible. According to him she just "didn't want to do it anymore," ie track sourness. But her will to win is intense even today, so I am not sure how accurate this claim was. She is extremely competitive and did well in her 7 starts. That is how I knew she would make a good sport horse. Watching back her videos I saw a horse who was competitive, strong, and wanted to beat the others. What I picked out from the field certainly did not reflect this, but I knew based on what I'd seen, what her pedigree said, and the softness of her eyes that I had a winner everyone else seemed to overlook.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

My evaluation on the horses listed:
1. Sun of an Indian
There is nothing in his pedigree that makes me think "sport horse." He is related to Halo, but that is the only big name close up. He seems to be low-quality bred. That's a yellow flag but he's not down and out yet. The horses who don't have impressive pedigrees tend to be the equivalent of "grade", ie people slapped a stallion and a mare together and hoped for the best. I can tell he will be very muscular when he grows up. He is level through the elbow and stifle, albeit a butthigh baby. Nice round hind end. He is probably too big and too slow to race, as his frame is fairly large. His hind leg is fairly straight but not too bad. His shoulder angle is open and upright and he will be able to pull his knees up, but I feel speed wise he will be too slow for XC and most likely not have the endurance. He is not who I would pick as an eventer. He'd make a nice hunter horse/lower level dressage horse with the potential to go higher.


2. Two timing man
Also big boned. Will fill out very nicely. Probably too slow to race. Steeper hind end, will make a good jumper. Too long a gaskin and seems to be sickle hocked. *Would rule that out immediately as a sport prospect. *Conformation flaw right off the bat. Will not hold up to eventing. He looks incredibly sweet and will make someone a very happy trail horse. I can see this guy trekking through the mountains. His pedigree is as bland as mayonnaise. 



3. I Love My Bicycle
OMG MY HORSE'S COUSIN! This is the one I would take. If we swapped places I'd take her sight unseen. I know this pedigree and this one is a gem. Uphill confo. very nice long legs. Wide rib cage, will be round in the barrel. Excellent hind leg. Short canon bones but... over at the knee. All this means is you can't treat her roughly, you must condition her correctly and take care of her legs. Nicely placed neck. Has the "look of eagles." No idea why this girl didn't race - be careful. This one might be the gold mine but tread lightly and ask lots of questions!!!

@ClearDonkey, This horse's pedigree was BRED TO WIN. Worrisome she didn't race. Every name was carefully chosen. I'd zone in on her. Find her weak points and bargain the price down. Take care of her and she will give you everything she has and more.


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## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

I like #3 as well of the ones you just posted.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

#3 has the best of it all. She's probably the most expensive one out of all of them though. That's just a guess, considering confo + bloodlines she's got a lot working for her, and a smart person would price her high.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

thecolorcoal said:


> My evaluation on the horses listed:
> 1. Sun of an Indian
> There is nothing in his pedigree that makes me think "sport horse." He is related to Halo, but that is the only big name close up. He seems to be low-quality bred. That's a yellow flag but he's not down and out yet. The horses who don't have impressive pedigrees tend to be the equivalent of "grade", ie people slapped a stallion and a mare together and hoped for the best. I can tell he will be very muscular when he grows up. He is level through the elbow and stifle, albeit a butthigh baby. Nice round hind end. He is probably too big and too slow to race, as his frame is fairly large. His hind leg is fairly straight but not too bad. His shoulder angle is open and upright and he will be able to pull his knees up, but I feel speed wise he will be too slow for XC and most likely not have the endurance. He is not who I would pick as an eventer. He'd make a nice hunter horse/lower level dressage horse with the potential to go higher.
> 
> ...


By big, I hope you didn't mean height wise - #1 is "only" 15.2hh. I'd be interested to see how his body changes as he is put undersaddle and worked.

#3 is also my favorite, and I am thinking of calling on her, my one initial concern is the shoes. Currently I am in the position that the horse would have to be barefoot, because of my location (few choices in farriers, no choices in people that can shoe!) and the fact that she would have to be pastured with others. I think I will be making some phones calls on #1 and #3 regardless, but I don't want to jump the gun, as I will pretty much will not be able to ride consistently again until March/April.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

thecolorcoal said:


> #3 has the best of it all. She's probably the most expensive one out of all of them though. That's just a guess, considering confo + bloodlines she's got a lot working for her, and a smart person would price her high.



All three are listed at $500. All said and done, it would be probably be around $1500 to purchase and bring one home, not including a PPE.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

@*ClearDonkey* , you want "thick" in a tb. Big simply means wide, like a QH. That is substantial. You don't want a toothpick horse.


#1 and #3 are the only ones you should consider for your purposes. Both are physically good. I can tell you, having a mare with #3's pedigree these horses can be very fiery and determined. It will take some convincing to get her to understand you are in it together. But man will she pull herself together for you for shows! She will be a determined little thing, she will. #1 is a joker card. I have no idea what he will be like, but I don't know his breeding at all and that scares me. He could be totally relaxed or he could be a nutjob.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

What about this guy?

http://www.newvocations.org/horseprofiles/cannubi/


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I like #3 the best. Just because a horse has shoes on doesn't mean they need shoes. Many people shoe horses because all their horses are kept shod.
She looks like she has the most potential for athleticism. Her back is long, but she has a nice shoulder and wither. 

Although #1 is barefoot, he looks like he might have a club on the right front, and perhaps significantly different angles between the front hooves. The right shoulder might sit higher due to this, and the left be overdeveloped. So from the beginning you'd have a horse with difficulty working in one direction, and crookedness issues.

If #3 is over at the knee (hard to tell), it does not appear very significant and it is not a very serious fault. I'd suspect #1 would have more issues from worse hind end angles and the front that toes out.

You can't predict temperament very well from the pedigree. I'd assume any OTTB was going to be hot unless proven otherwise, so wouldn't get one delivered to me unless I was willing to deal with a very energetic horse. If temperament is an issue, I'd go look at the horse in person first.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

Avna said:


> What about this guy?
> 
> http://www.newvocations.org/horseprofiles/cannubi/


I do not meet the adoption requirements for New Vocations - there is no way I come close to making $35,000 a year as a student. Can I comfortably afford another horse? Of course - low cost of living area and board is dirt cheap. I wish I could go the New Vocations route, but I won't be able to show that level of income for another year or two.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

thecolorcoal said:


> This is very important, as it is not the horse's fault for being listed at a low price. You get what you buy, but sometimes track people don't know what they have. They have a horse who can't race and they don't see value in it past its racing years so they throw a low price tag on it. That's what happened to mine. You want to find that diamond in the rough. You need to look PAST the surface (everyone on this thread can take this advice!!!!) and look beyond the thin, wasp-waisted, skinny baby. Imagine the horse three years down the road, filled out and fit. Will its conformation lend to this? Can you visualize the horse being anything more than it is? If so, it should be on your short list of candidates.
> 
> Conformation is the next best thing you can look at besides soundness. Toss soundness out the window right now. Go in knowing you aren't looking at your 80,000 warmblood, you are looking at an athlete that is constantly pushed nearly over its breaking point in every race it runs. That's got to take a toll on the body. Look at how the horse uses itself. Is it seriously laboring ONE leg? or does it just seem to move stiffly, choppily, shortly? Contribute that to normal body stiffness.
> 
> ...



This is not good advice.... Do not toss out soundness. Do not. Maintenance is expensive and some things are not fixable. Also it is not in good form to purchase a horse off of "firey eyes" and look. Get something with decent manners, good bone, a stellar PPE (and yes these are findable in an OTTB) everything has to come down off the track. The more analytical you can be the better. Clean paces.. good temperament, and solid legs and large joints. Dpnt compromise for a pretty face.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

lostastirrup said:


> This is not good advice.... Do not toss out soundness. Do not. Maintenance is expensive and some things are not fixable. Also it is not in good form to purchase a horse off of "firey eyes" and look. Get something with decent manners, good bone, a stellar PPE (and yes these are findable in an OTTB) everything has to come down off the track. *The more analytical you can be the better. Clean paces.. good temperament, and solid legs and large joints. *Dpnt compromise for a pretty face.


I agree very much. It's actually a lot harder on a person if they get the horse and love the horse, then discover all the soundness problems and maintenance required. Then you have a real dilemma, especially if you're faced with quality of life issues where the horse may need to be put down, or else live with pain. 
Many things are NOT fixable. This seems to be especially true with OTTBs.

I would not pass over anything as muscle soreness from racing. A fit and sound horse should not be sore a few days later, regardless of how hard the exercise was. Endurance horses are some of the most fit horses on the planet, and if an endurance horse was sore a week after a ride, it should be very concerning.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

lostastirrup said:


> This is not good advice.... Do not toss out soundness. Do not. Maintenance is expensive and some things are not fixable. Also it is not in good form to purchase a horse off of "firey eyes" and look. Get something with decent manners, good bone, a stellar PPE (and yes these are findable in an OTTB) everything has to come down off the track. The more analytical you can be the better. Clean paces.. good temperament, and solid legs and large joints. Dpnt compromise for a pretty face.



I still don't agree.


If you want something perfectly sound, get a warmblood yearling approved by a registry, but be prepared to pay almost 20,000 dollars for that horse.


Even then, PPE's are only showing the day they are taken. The day of the PPE is sound. Next day horse could step in a hole and break its leg. Does that mean it was lame to begin with? 



Horses can be sound with track jewelry. They can also be sound with leg faults. My friend's horse is a dressage horse and he is over at the knees but has never taken a lame step. My other friend's horse is a TB with navicular and is still a hunter, albeit with osphos and special pads. 



My point, which lostastirrup and others seem to be missing is if you are going to get a horse that has the POTENTIAL to have lameness in its lifetime, as inevitably a lot of TB's do, you better fall in love with the prospect you buy. It is not fair for the horse to be sold or euthanized for something that was not its fault. It didn't ask to race, it didn't ask to get injured. 



If you are not willing to be in it forever, this is NOT the breed for you. People who buy OTTBs and expect them to be as hearty as arabs, qh's, morgans, pick your type, are going to be thoroughly, THOROUGHLY disappointed. And they are the ones who continue to give this breed a bad rap and spread the negativity and rumors.


I have a tb. the only reason she is sound is because I METICULOUSLY take care of her. I am anal retentive about her soundness, comfort, and health, because if I am not on top of it 110% that is when I get the huge vet bills.


But I also get the most amazing sport horse for cheap, and didn't have to spend the 40,000 on a german import.


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## thecolorcoal (Jan 28, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> Many things are NOT fixable. This seems to be especially true with OTTBs.



No, many things are not fixable.


But many things can be worked around.


My horse as a bone chip - therefore I need to make sure the footing is good and I don't overwork her.


My horse has back issues - therefore I need to get a saddle that fits perfectly and/or special padding and have her see a chiro



My horse has scars in her mouth from harsh bits - therefore I use as soft a bit as I can.


My horse has stifle weakness - therefore I need to build her quads and supplement with injections.


The fact that people think "lame is lame and that's it" really annoy me. There are ways to work around A LOT of issues. The ones who aren't willing to try shouldn't go down this route.


Case in point: if you don't have the money, time, energy, experience, and willingness, *do not buy an ottb.* Leave them to the people who accept them for what they CAN do and don't complain and become bitter over what they can't.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

thecolorcoal said:


> <snip>
> 
> 
> Case in point: if you don't have the money, time, energy, experience, and willingness, *do not buy an ottb.* Leave them to the people who accept them for what they CAN do and don't complain and become bitter over what they can't.


So what you are saying is that there pretty much are _no_ sound OTTBs out there, so if you want one, just be prepared to nurse an unsound horse along for the rest of its life, because that is what is going to happen?

Boy I would never in a billion years take on a proposition like that.


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## DanteDressageNerd (Mar 12, 2015)

Absolutely! I think a lot of people become very unrealistic when they love a horse and get blind to the reality of what that horse is truly capable of. I've gone through a few horses looking for Wonder, trained many and developed a lot of horses. Schooled PSG-I1, done a lot with stallions and inspection stuff, got to ride some pretty incredible horses. 

You always have to look for a horse that is sound for what you want to do. I had a quarab who was very lovely, nice mover. An international GP rider said he could do at least PSG but he couldn't stay sound to truly collect at 2nd. It was too hard on his body. As a hunter, he's perfectly sound but for dressage to increase the degree of collection. He was getting sore and truthfully it was too hard on him. His stifles couldnt take it. If someone didnt want true collection and was okay with him not sitting behind or being through, he would have been ok but as a hunter no problems. It's incredibly hard on a horses body to ask them to do upper level type work. It's why quality of paces isnt an indicator of upper level talent but their mechanics. A hunter style mover for example is not going to be a quality upper level dressage horse. Even though they move very floaty and lofty, they are often too straight in the stifle and don't have enough "sit" in their hind end. However that same horse may make a lovely mid level eventer. 

That said I spent a lot of money to get Wonder what I call dressage sound. He was sound when I bought him, his "offness" isnt something a jumper or eventer would notice but a dressage person has to be very picky about because of the goal in mind. An event horse doesnt sit like a dressage horse. I injected his SI, PRP on both stifles, meso, chiropractor, teeth, treated for gastric ulcers for 6wks, etc and that is something to factor into a budget. I do not think this is strictly ottb stuff, this is pretty normal procedure in the dressage, jumping and eventing world period. Even with a warmblood. I know you want a mid level horse but to explain higher level anything is very hard on a horses body. Ethically someone may ask if it is fair to ask that kind of performance from a horse because there is wear and tear, that's reality and I dont know how to answer that but I'll say there is a reason relatively few horses have the talent, mind and ability to push. Just like human athletes, it takes something extra.

I think you'd be better off getting a horse through a program than straight off the track. You'll still get a full experience but you'll know what you're getting. On the track a horse that seems wild may be a sweetheart or he may be wild. Or a horse gentle at the track may be sedated. A horse at the track wont necessarily be cheaper. I think they're more expensive than getting through an agency or something.

Temperament is also a big factor. If I want to sell a horse or as a project and something you dont have to work with everyday. Mine would be awful. People expect thoroughbreds to be sensitive, picky and a bit "hot." When I bought Wonder I had NO idea what I was buying and for me it's okay that he is what he is but for 95% of people I think he would seriously hurt someone. He's a handful on the ground too, today I went out and they said we cant even bring him in from the field because he's rearing, bolting, etc so I go out and he's scared of the electric wire, tried without chain then over nose, he pulled through, so I had to put a lip chain on him and have spot on timing to get him through, else there is no way to keep hold of him. Ive given up on that ever being fixed, I've tried just about everything. A really good natural horsemanship trainer worked with him,etc. Undersaddle he's absolutely a professionals only type of horse. He's not necessarily bad, he's just special. You really have to know what youre doing with him or it gets ugly and dangerous very fast. You can't let him get away with little stuff or next step you have no steering and he cant learn those evasions or he remembers and then the timing has to be even more precise. Or he's standing on two legs and absolutely refuses to be ridden, steer, blow through your reins, doesnt steer etc. He's very smart. Hasnt done that with me but seen it. Have to draw a line in the sand and be really clear with him or he's dangerous. And those are the sort of things you just dont know from off the track. The owner however did tell me he was tricky and the 2nd hottest tb he's ever had. The owner also refused to sell the horse to 8 or 9 different people because he was afraid theyd get hurt and Wonder would be abused. Point of that story is you just dont know what you're getting when you buy directly from the track. And I was arrogant thinking it all could be fixed, nope. A lot of things I just have to accept as a part of him and work with what I have. Even when it frustrates me, I used to stay awake at night trying to figure out how to fix it or ask my trainer or a natural horsemanship trainer whose really good and Ive come to terms with this is the horse I have. All that ground training goes out the window when it suits him.

Temperament and soundness I think is most important. Talent is meaningless if the horse isnt' managably sound. And if you're looking for a mid level horse, if it takes an arm and a leg just to get it walk, trot, canter sound then pass. Get a good solid, reasonable temperament.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

thecolorcoal said:


> My horse as a bone chip - therefore I need to make sure the footing is good and I don't overwork her.
> 
> 
> My horse has back issues - therefore I need to get a saddle that fits perfectly and/or special padding and have her see a chiro
> ...




I do not think that is a horse I would say "passed" a PPE, from what I remember she can't go barefoot (something the OP needs) and that's enough of a list of limiting maintenance and likelihood of extremely early retirement that I would not buy the horse. Do not pick up something with a similar grocery list of problems. 

Not all TBs are like this. I've done 4 or 5 some longer than others and what thecolorcoal describes is not typical. You have to be aware of the feet and evaluate if barefoot is an option (Tihannah has a 3yo OTTB who is basically impeccable, barefoot, with really good structure. North is a real cutie and a nice dressage prospect) I would get X-rays, so you could look at the sole at least. In my experience (they are not my breed of choice, but I can understand the attraction) if they retired sound, got adequate rest and were brought into work as you would any other four year old or 3 year old with attention to joints, footing and causing minimal wear they turn out pretty good with minimal issues. Provided you bought one that had no major glaring faults to begin with. If you bought something with a menagerie of issues. You will continue to have issues. 

There was one I worked on for a number of years as my competition horse growing up, and he was long in the back, with semi okay feet and other than being cow hocked, wasn't the worst. Also was not a great mover but he was level in his topline and could carry himself alright. He was pretty sound throughout his career (he's in semi retirement now at age 16 mostly because I'm not home to ride him) he had absesses one wet summer but his structure was good. I did not have to do thousands in maintenance on him. And if I would have had to, I would probably have to say he was unsuitable for what I was asking- and I have had horses that I have had to let move on to lower impact work because of bad structure and soundness (a very talented Qh jumper whom I adored comes to mind). 

You should not need to put $10,000 into making a mid level eventer sound. But there is a possibility of finding something that would need that and I would pass it by. 

If I were you I would look at a ton of horses. Make some charts do some comparisons and run vet checks on the most suitable. Take age, how long they ran on the track, structure, lines, blemishes and temperament into your evaluation. At as young as you are getting- I would not expect a four year old who ran for 2 years to need excessive maintenance, I'd expect to need rest- yes, but if there are issues now, there will be issues 10yrs down the line that may become extremely limiting when the horse should be in it's prime.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

And because this post is headed the soundness direction: images for the lols as buying a horse is a weighty subject and some comic relief is needed every now and again .


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I wouldn't expect a TB to be as hardy as an Arab, no. To me that means I wouldn't expect them to have as good hooves naturally, but I still would expect to have a horse that could go barefoot on softer ground, and maybe use boots on rougher trails. It means the skin might not be as tough, so I might not ride through brambles that might cut my horse's legs even if an Arab could go through without injury. It means the horse may not have good enough legs or metabolism to go for 50 miles, but I'd expect to be able to ride hard for 10 without going lame. Those are all reasonable expectations for an OTTB.

I'm not saying @colorcoal is wrong to stick with her horse and take good care of her. But I would definitely rule out any prospect with any obvious soundness or conformation issues. TBs are a wonderful breed but are heavily overbred. This means conformation and soundness issues are common. There is no such thing as a perfect horse, but as with any breed you can rule out prospects that have crooked legs, bad hooves, or issues on xrays. 

My own TB is one I would have ruled out. I did rule him out for myself, but unfortunately my friend brought him home anyway as a BF horse and when his physical issues showed up and his temperament was wrong for a less experienced rider, I ended up justifying keeping him. With eyes wide open I know he may not stay sound over the years. I will do what is best for him.

I agree very much that temperament needs to be a consideration. For example, if my gelding gets worked up he may buck or leap or rear. He also remembers being led with a chain and if he is upset he wants to chew on or bite the handler. Most of the time he is very good, but these things crop up too. If you are planning to have an OTTB as a prospect, you must consider that many TBs will not end up appropriate for most riders, so can be difficult to rehome even after extensive training.

This is not complaining about TBs, they are a great breed and I love them. Humans have bred many issues into them, which makes them "buyer beware."


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