# Would you pay a $15,000.00 stud fee..



## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

For Hickstead ?


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## cheekyhorse (Jul 24, 2007)

no. He's an unproven stallion....... I realize he won the gold at the Olympics, but by and large, he has no foals on the ground, so no.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

...no.... I'd love to be able to pay a 5000 stud fee for some horse I really like but I can't even seem to be able to justify that!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Nope, but I'm sure people will!


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## Supermane (Sep 23, 2007)

To be honest, if I had the money and I wanted a foal, I would.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Nahh, way too expensive. LOL! :lol:


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## Gingerrrrr (Feb 12, 2008)

hell no!


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

Would you, Spyder?

I'd love to be able to have that kind of money to spend on a stud fee. Now, I wouldn't use it for that purpose, though.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Joshie said:


> Would you, Spyder?
> 
> I'd love to be able to have that kind of money to spend on a stud fee. Now, I wouldn't use it for that purpose, though.


Nope. First because his bloodlines are available without going through him and there are no close relatives that have this ability so to me he is a sort of a freak of nature. This type of abnomoly does not usually breed true.

Besides i can make my own babies.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

If I was rich, and had a mare close to being in the Olympic levels, I think I would.


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## buckaroo2010 (Nov 7, 2007)

Thats a little pricy for a stud fee! I dont think I would even if I did have the money either


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## steph81285 (Oct 25, 2007)

Spyder said:


> Nope. First because his bloodlines are available without going through him and there are no close relatives that have this ability so to me he is a sort of a freak of nature. This type of abnomoly does not usually breed true.
> 
> Besides i can make my own babies.


I have to agree with you. No one else related can touch him.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I would pay that for a breeding fee but not for an unproved stallion that has no point/money earning get.


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## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

I can think of MANY other ways to spend that amount of money!
x


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## LauraB (Nov 11, 2008)

I just watched his winning video on youtube. He may be an excellent jumper but I wasn't that crazy about his looks or how he moves. He sure does a good job at getting over those jumps though. I agree with the freak of nature comment. Who could ever guess that he would pass that on to his foals. It will be several years before anyone knows for sure. Hmm...$15,000 nope, but show jumping is not one of my interests either.


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## Kiara (Aug 27, 2008)

No, because I could buy an awesome fully trained horse that is just as good for the same price! Man, I can't even buy a horse that expensive let alone a stud fee, because it's not just the stud fee but the care for the mare and the foal... So yeah, thanks, but no thanks. Especially if the stud doesn't pass on his traits or if he is not known for it.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

I wouldn't pay that much for a unprooved stud, reguardless of his personal career wins or event.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Um... no way. I hate spending money, and that's just too much to waste on a stud fee when something may happen to the mare that could cause her to about the baby or something else... I can think of 15,000 other things to spend that money on.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

ohmyitschelle said:


> I can think of MANY other ways to spend that amount of money!
> x


I was thinking I could get one heck of a made horse for that price.....


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I wouldn't. There are hundreds of other stallions out there of better quality without spending this kind of ridiculous amount of money.


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## BeauReba (Jul 2, 2008)

Nah, not until he's proven. Somebeachsomewhere is unproven and his stud fee is supposed to be set at $20,000 his first year!


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

This stallion is the most outstanding stallion I have ever seen. Quiet as can be and his ability is beyond anything I have ever seen. I tried to see if I could find out how much his breeding fee is tho I could not find anything. I bet it's not anything near the 15,000.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

BeauReba said:


> Somebeachsomewhere is unproven and his stud fee is supposed to be set at $20,000 his first year!


 
In racing stud fees are often high but yes he is unproven also..


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

My2Geldings said:


> This stallion is the most outstanding stallion I have ever seen. Quiet as can be and his ability is beyond anything I have ever seen. I tried to see if I could find out how much his breeding fee is tho I could not find anything. I bet it's not anything near the 15,000.
> 
> YouTube - Spruce Meadows - 2006 Six Bar


That grey stallion is good but he is not the Gold Medal Olympic champion and with I believe 10 GP wins in one season. That is almost unheard of.

I still wouldn't pay $15,000.00 stud fee though.


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## Nadia (Nov 16, 2008)

Yes, for sure! Hickstead is absolutely amazing.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I may get kicked off the forum for this comment (LOL) but I think bloodlines are overrated. As a mustang lover, I hardly look at bloodlines anymore. Any horse with the appropriate body type, physical ability, and enough heart can excel at any discipline. Even if I was breeding, I don't think I would spend 15,000 for any stud. But, to each their own.


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## BeauReba (Jul 2, 2008)

I am well aware that stud fees are high, especially for the top race horse in the world ATM... but still, if he isn't proven and his foals aren't racing, I wouldn't pay that much.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Supermane said:


> To be honest, if I had the money and I wanted a foal, I would.


Yup, agreed. If I had that kind of cash to throw around and they had a live foal guarantee, I sure as heck would! It would be awesome to own a son/daughter of an Olympic gold medal winning horse. I think $15,000 is CHEAP! :mrgreen:


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## Skyhuntress (Sep 9, 2008)

No. First of all, because I actually don't LIKE Hickstead. I mean he has phenomenal talenty, but having seen him in the barn with his handlers at Spruce or even him in the warmup, he's not exactly the nicest horse 

In addition to that, as Spyder mentioned, the bloodlines are available already for a much cheaper price.

Thirdly, there are other Olympic horses that have done quite well that are available for 1/3 of the price-and they generally have foals on the ground, and some are doing extremely well
(for example, Quidam de Reval - who placed 4th at the Olympics and has MANY proven offspring-his stud fees were $3000 in 2006. Or Darco, who you can still get frozen semen from and was absolutely AMAZING)


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

You don't ride papers.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

luvs2ride1979 said:


> You don't ride papers.


This is the standard answer we get from those that have no understanding of bloodlines.

The are reasons why TBs with little or no black type (meaning proven producing lines) don't race well, it simply isn't in thier genes. The breeding industry or at least those that put real thought into breeding uses the family history to mate two potential breeding pairs together. It cost a lot of money to breed a horse that is expected to improve upon its parents and just breeding Horse A to horse B without any thought is irresponsible and especially irresponsible in today's market.

So no you do not actually sit on "papers" as such but you do sit on what those papers produce.

Now having been around the block with expected replies fron certain factors. PLEASE do not bring up examples of exceptions to what I just said. They are that...exceptions and you never breed for exceptions but for the most likey _expectations_.


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## Skyhuntress (Sep 9, 2008)

Spyder said:


> This is the standard answer we get from those that have no understanding of bloodlines.
> 
> The are reasons why TBs with little or no black type (meaning proven producing lines) don't race well, it simply isn't in thier genes. The breeding industry or at least those that put real thought into breeding uses the family history to mate two potential breeding pairs together. It cost a lot of money to breed a horse that is expected to improve upon its parents and just breeding Horse A to horse B without any thought is irresponsible and especially irresponsible in today's market.
> 
> ...


I agree :lol:
Sure, you get the exceptions of the little grade horse that made it grand prix. But those are few and far between. The reason being is that, like humans, breeding passes on characteristics. By choosing good bloodlines, and ones that complement the mare, you are hedging your bets that the resulting foal WILL turn out well. Your chances of getting something good are drastically improved than if you were to breed from two unknown type horses and "hope" that you get something that has some talent.


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## amandaandeggo (May 21, 2008)

nope thats more than ive payed for all 3 of my current horses together!


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Spyder said:


> This is the standard answer we get from those that have no understanding of bloodlines.
> 
> The are reasons why TBs with little or no black type (meaning proven producing lines) don't race well, it simply isn't in thier genes. The breeding industry or at least those that put real thought into breeding uses the family history to mate two potential breeding pairs together. It cost a lot of money to breed a horse that is expected to improve upon its parents and just breeding Horse A to horse B without any thought is irresponsible and especially irresponsible in today's market.
> 
> ...


I am all for bloodlines, really. But they are only a small part of what makes a good breeding animal. Discounting this stallion just because his bloodlines aren't "common" in top horses is not something I think is right. Sure, take that into consideration, but it shouldn't be the only, or most important factor. His own conformation, performance, temperament, and trainability should be a more important factor than his papers.

Now, I do agree that the fact he has no proven foals on the ground is cause for concern, but that should change in the next few years.

A talented horse is a talented horse, no matter what his pedigree. A lot of those "great horses" in pedigrees didn't have spectacular papers either.

Americans pay too much attention to pedigrees. The Europeans and South Americans (rightly) call our Thoroughbreds the "Inbreds"... You can go overboard with "papers."


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

not in this lifetime no matter how proven he was, there are way too many exceptional studs available for a fraction of the fee


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Hickstead's fee is $5000, I'm sure I saw it in an ad not too long ago.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Hickstead's fee is $5000, I'm sure I saw it in an ad not too long ago.


Yes they dropped it but they had considered $15,000.00 at one time.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Spyder said:


> Yes they dropped it but they had considered $15,000.00 at one time.


Fair enough. I believe it is Big Chex To Cash's sire that is commanding a $10,000 stud fee. Big Chex To Cash isn't far behind.


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## xxNataliexx (Apr 7, 2009)

No Way Thats Far To Much


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## phonix (Mar 21, 2009)

no way thats a crazy price


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## horseoffire (Apr 7, 2009)

i help breed and train horses and she has spent a good 15,000 before for studs but her horses go for 25,000 to 75,000. but like know she has her own studs to that she breeds with but she pays stud fees like that alot of times to get more champion bloodlines.


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## bama20a (Nov 27, 2008)

I would.nt give 15 grand for the horse, much less for stud fee.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

bama20a said:


> I would.nt give 15 grand for the horse, much less for stud fee.


You wouldn't pay $15,000 for an olympic horse?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Just a side note - if he proves himself with his first foal crop, I would have no problem paying $5000 for his stud fee. Of course you're looking at a good 5 years' wait just to see how his foals turn out movement-wise. If they prove themselves I can see his fee increasing.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Just a side note - if he proves himself with his first foal crop, I would have no problem paying $5000 for his stud fee. Of course you're looking at a good 5 years' wait just to see how his foals turn out movement-wise. If they prove themselves I can see his fee increasing.


 
I believe I read somewhere that he already has foals but are in Europe but that there are not too many.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Spyder said:


> I believe I read somewhere that he already has foals but are in Europe but that there are not too many.


Aha. I haven't done my research obviously!


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## JsJ204 (Mar 18, 2009)

Nope. The stud I chose this year was only $700. And he's out of the Leading Barrel Futurity, Leading Barrel Maturity & Leading Derby sire, Dash for Perks. So I was happy with that.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

I wouldn't pay $15,000 for a stud fee no matter who or what the horse has done. Why, because horses are my hobby and recreation. Can't justify that kind of money as it is not connected to my livelihood.

In this economy I'm still trying to "convince" myself to part with the cash for my dream trailer that is going for $13,500. 

I hate being soooooo practical.:-|


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

I have a friend who is currently waiting for a Hickstead foal to be born. I am excited to see him or her!!! I don't think there are many due in north America (I have heard 4). I do believe he has foals in Europe, not sure how many. 

The mare is amazing and should be a great cross. 

No doubt Hickstead has talent!! If he passes that on to his foals we won`t know for a while. It will be great if he does 

Kristine


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

No way! Even the reining $6 million dollar stud Topssail Whiz doesn't have a stud fee like that!


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Spyder said:


> This is the standard answer we get from those that have no understanding of bloodlines.
> 
> The are reasons why TBs with little or no black type (meaning proven producing lines) don't race well, it simply isn't in thier genes. The breeding industry or at least those that put real thought into breeding uses the family history to mate two potential breeding pairs together. It cost a lot of money to breed a horse that is expected to improve upon its parents and just breeding Horse A to horse B without any thought is irresponsible and especially irresponsible in today's market.
> 
> So no you do not actually sit on "papers" as such but you do sit on what those papers produce.


Completely agree. I have a very nicely bred and papered TB, raced pretty decent, and you can most certainly feel it when you ride him.....the talent and the athletecism is there. If he weren't a gelding he might not produce _bad _foals, but I don't think they would be top notch either. 

However, I wouldn't pay 15k for any stud fee, ever. Maybe 5k if there were a few crops of foals on the ground and you could see what he makes, but I would have to really be invested in making a baby.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

No. As far as I know his foals have not yet proven themselves, and I'm not particularly impressed by his lines. For that price, I could most likely find better stallions if not for less. I also don't have a good scope of what his personality is like when he's off course.

And wow old thread.


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

LOL I guess I come from Arabians, it is not rare to see higher stud fees than other breeds. Padron, Echo magnificoo, WN Ultimate Star, Bay Shah, Ali Jamaal, Marwan Al Shaqab (his is currently listed at 30K) and Gazal Al Shaqab plus many more stallions have stood for well over the 10K mark.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure I saw Hickstead`s price set at 5500 Per dose. Frozen only of course.

When I sarted with warmbloods i was acually surprised how low some of the stud fees were for quality proven stallions.

Having said that, the Arabian breed has not done itself any favour by having really high stud fees and high priced babies.

Kristine


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

RenexArabs said:


> Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but i am pretty sure I saw Hickstead`s price set at 5500 Per dose. Frozen only of course.
> 
> Kristine


I understand that shortly after the $15,000 price was discussed on many horse boards it suddenly went down....LOL


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

Well sure if the foal poops gold.


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

I will let you when I see my friend`s Hickstead baby.. That could be an added bonus i had never thought about!!!

Kristine


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

Maybe to a unicorn....LOL


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Depends on the stud horse and how well he matches my mare. Now, here's the breeding I like to see -

Western Pleasure stud + Western Pleasure mare = WP Foal
Cutting stud + Racing mare = Cutting Foal
Cutting + Reining = Reining Foal
Racing stud + Racing mare = Racing horse
Barrel stud + Reining mare = Barrel Horse

You can see what I like. In my opinion, a goods tud is priceless if his foals can keep his traits. I've seen some HOT studs who win and win and win.....but their foals just fell flat, even bred to nice mares. Sometimes that happens. I want to see performance, conformation, and I want to see somene else breed to him first. Let them be the crash test


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm not a breeder so no I wouldn't. I would rather just spend the extra money for a finished horse. Horses are to expensive to not enjoy them. I don't find training babies fun. They are cute to look at but not for $15k


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

It's all relavent to the individual. For Hickstead who has good breeding but not exceptional, yet is a stellar performer it seems a little steep for an introductory fee. BUT sometimes those freaky performers pass on that grit and spark that makes them great and by the time everyone realizes it the fee tripples. So I can see how some major breeders might take the chance.
Again it's relative to the mare owner - if they plan on marketing the foal and it's a hot market than it may be worth it. I come from racehorse background so 15, 000 - 20,000 is pretty standard. However we know these foals are fetching big pricees at the yearling sales so in the long run it makes sense. Racehorses are also a quicker return on the dollar than jumpers because as I mentioned we sell our babies at the yearling sales and don't have to wait on them for sooo many years to start performing.
But in my daydreams I have unlimited $$ and I would for sure pop the big bucks for Nu Chex to Cash...drool


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> No way! Even the reining $6 million dollar stud Topssail Whiz doesn't have a stud fee like that!


There are reasons for that.

There are several other reining stallions going for that or more.

Wold I pay $15K for a stud fee?? Yes for the right stud and with the right mare. I would have not problem paying that for any of my mares however I have yet to pay a full stud fee on any stallion.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

And plus....Topsail Whiz is dead. He has no stud fee anymore. Makes me sad....


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

SorrelHorse said:


> And plus....Topsail Whiz is dead. He has no stud fee anymore. Makes me sad....



Yes he is dead however he still have a stud fee as does Hollywood Dun It. There is quite a bit of Frozen on both.


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

Hickstead colt born today at the farm I work at!! He doesn't poop gold nuggets but he is very nice and HUGE!!

I will give him some time to unfold and maybe post pictures at some point.
Kristine


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## Valentina (Jul 27, 2009)

I would Not pay 15K stud fee for ANY stallion! :shock:


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

subscribing i want to see pics of that Hickstead colt just born


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## 5cuetrain (Dec 11, 2009)

If you own a great brood mare then the stud fee is "negociable". If you don't then why consider to breed to such a stud anyway.

The studs get the flash but its the brood mares who carry the day. If you are lucky enough to own several great brood mares then you could take a chance on an unproven stud as if he hits you own the baby.

Remember that even with all the science involved and the high dollars paid there is still only one champion.


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## upupandflyaway1 (May 10, 2010)

Nope. I can find a nice stallion that will compliment my mare for a LOT cheaper than that. I just can't even justify that.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

smrobs said:


> I may get kicked off the forum for this comment (LOL) but I think bloodlines are overrated. As a mustang lover, I hardly look at bloodlines anymore. Any horse with the appropriate body type, physical ability, and enough heart can excel at any discipline. Even if I was breeding, I don't think I would spend 15,000 for any stud. But, to each their own.


 
Phew, thought I was the only one who was thinking this. I feel the same way, even in regards to the racing industry. Here is how it goes: Horse wins millions of money on the race track, goes off to stud to produce expensive progeny. Who can afford to buy the progeny? People with oodles of money. Where do they send them for training? The most successful (read:expensive) trainer they know of. Best facilities, best training, money to pay the best jockeys. If the horse wins, is it due to it's impeccable breeding or the fact that no expense was spared in its training and upbringing? Who knows.

Although breeding plays a part, there is a lot to be said for upbringing, training and the rider. I mainly ride TB's as performance horses and the main things that I look for are good conformation and the horse must be sane of mind. The rest is up to the training. 

So no, I wouldn't pay a $15,000 stud fee even if the horse would bring me breakfast in bed in the mornings.

If I was insanely rich however....


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

^True story.

I wouldn't pay $15,000 unless I had a multimillion dollar mare. If you have an outstanding mare that is worth in the millions then $15,000 for a stud fee is kind of a drop in the bucket wouldn't you say? It's all semantics but I don't think they were marketing to the average breeder anyways. Most of the times people that have the money to pay the stud fees are ok with paying more for the "exclusivity" of a "top stud". Someone that wants to get a jump on the market or hold a monopoly on a certain line might be willing to shell out that kind of money to make those progeny exclusive. Because in any marketplace exclusive = $$$$$. So if they have a $15,000 stud fee then they can make the same amount of money with less foals on the ground to intro the stallion and everyone starts wanting one of these "special foals". Otherwise you intro a stud at a low fee, everyone and their mother breeds to you. You have a full book for the first year and the market gets flooded with your progeny a year later. Then in 2 years you have sons popping up with their own stud fees taking mares away from you if you decide to up your fee. 

Personally, if I had a stud like that I would make them invest in him and corner the market for a few years until I learned what his foals were made of. Quantity is not always the best route. Although it will give you the most income in the shortest amount of time. Waiting and being exclusive is always a gamble...but then so is anything to do with horses. It's all in how you play the game.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

If I am going to pay fifteen thousand dollars for a stud fee, that dang stud better be bright blue and able to clean up his own poop. Now that would be a horse worth a fifteen thousand stud fee.

But seriously. I would, if the stallion was practically flawless, was producing winning foals, and the owners were responsible with him (as in, he doesn't produce 400,000 foals a year kind of thing). 

The most that we have ever paid for a stud fee was about $5000, and only because he was a perfect match for my barrel racing mare (he was a barrel stud) and I wanted a foal to train of my own. I still own that horse as a matter of fact, and he is my fastest runner.


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

I can rehab 25-30 rescue horses for that much money.


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

if stud fees were all $15,000 there would be less rehab horses.

Kristine


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Holy gravedigging post!

While I personally would not pay a 15,000 stud fee, I think a horse with an olympic win under his belt has every right to command such a stud fee. If his get go on to show they inherit his talent, he will have earned it.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

RenexArabs said:


> if stud fees were all $15,000 there would be less rehab horses.
> 
> Kristine



I 100% agree with you. If you make breeding more expensive then people will be more selective and breed less. However that only works if everyone follows the rules and unfortunately it's the BYB's that don't charge anything and/or breed to their own that are causing most of the unwanted horse problems. So unless the government gets tough with breeding regulations this is never going to be stopped sadly =(.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Why is it that every one seems to want the government to fix the problem?? They can not do it. The government just gets in the way and jacks prices up and gives nothing back and wastes money. We do not need a granny/welfare state we need people who take responsibility for their actions.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> Why is it that every one seems to want the government to fix the problem?? They can not do it. The government just gets in the way and jacks prices up and gives nothing back and wastes money. We do not need a granny/welfare state we need people who take responsibility for their actions.


Here here. I for one in no way support the government getting their nose any more into things than they already do.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> Here here. I for one in no way support the government getting their nose any more into things than they already do.


Was not referring to your post but a comment on the one just above the mine.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> Was not referring to your post but a comment on the one just above the mine.


I know, I was just agreeing with your statement.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> I know, I was just agreeing with your statement.


Oh gotcha.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

I was just making a statement. Unfortunately people these days don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. I don't condone governmental involvement either I was just saying that I believe that would be what it would take to force people to breed responsibly since the banning of slaughter by them has already exacerbated the problem of unwanted horses and not enough responsible owners. Not saying I agree with it but I do believe that it is what it would take to stop BYBs and put a dent in the unwanted horse population. Nothing will ever stop the problem though in my opinion.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> I was just making a statement. Unfortunately people these days don't want to take responsibility for their own actions. I don't condone governmental involvement either I was just saying that I believe that would be what it would take to force people to breed responsibly since the banning of slaughter by them has already exacerbated the problem of unwanted horses and not enough responsible owners. Not saying I agree with it but I do believe that it is what it would take to stop BYBs and put a dent in the unwanted horse population. Nothing will ever stop the problem though in my opinion.


What it would take is the same thing it would take in the dog world - educating the public so they stop buying from and therefore supporting the BYB/Crap breeder. Like you said, though, chances are it just wont ever happen.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

As long as the crap is cheaper there will always be less discerning buyers and the trend will continue =(.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Exactly!


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

If I ever had a mare of the same calibar as a stallion with that kind of stud fee, as well as had that kind of cash just 'hangin' around TO spend, "maybe" I would spend that much for a stud fee. However, I think I would rather spend that kind of money on a stallion's colt or filly that's already beginning to prove itself, rather than taking the gamble on a foal that is unborn.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> As long as the crap is cheaper there will always be less discerning buyers and the trend will continue =(.


The sad part about it is that it's not so much about puppies and kitties being cheap, as much as it's about 'registered' and available...I've seen puppies and kittens in pet stores that are being sold for much more than I paid one year for a purebred poodle puppy FROM a breeder who I knew; so it's not so much about 'cheap' as it is 'cute and available'...a new pet owner isn't questioned when they buy from a petstore, but a good breeder IS going to ask questions like "what do you want the puppy for", and "what will you do in the event that you can't keep the dog", etc...As far as the registered part, alot of pet store pups aren't registered with the AKC, but with some kind of 'pet registry' (the name is slipping my mind), because as you know, puppies have to be purebred to be registered with AKC, UKC, etc. I have seen puppies listed as AKC registered, but there is no way those were purebred puppies...how they actually register them is beyond me.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Just because something is registered though doesn't mean it's not crap. But yea...there's some "expensive crap" that is being very well marketed as well out there. The whole system sucks.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> Just because something is registered though doesn't mean it's not crap. But yea...there's some "expensive crap" that is being very well marketed as well out there. The whole system sucks.


That's my point, but if it's available, and no one is going to ask questions about whether you are capable of owning the pet, people don't really care. If it's easy to obtain, people will take that over a responsible breeder's stock.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> If I ever had a mare of the same calibar as a stallion with that kind of stud fee, as well as had that kind of cash just 'hangin' around TO spend, "maybe" I would spend that much for a stud fee. However, I think I would rather spend that kind of money on a stallion's colt or filly that's already beginning to prove itself, rather than taking the gamble on a foal that is unborn.


While I understand what you are saying. This is the problem with people looking at either breeding or buying.

IF you had a mare of that caliber and where to spend the $15K stud fee THAT foal would be worth at least 4-5 times that stud fee when it hit the ground. Even if you where to go out and buy a foal from that $15K stud fee stallion and not spend a lot more then that for it then the mare was a lesser quality. I see this all the time. People have a mare who is OK and have the money for the high stud fee so they breed that mare to the big time stud and the resulting foal does not even bring the stud fee. On the flip side. If the mare is as good as the stallion the resulting foal sells for again 4-5 times plus the stud fee.

When you are looking at breeding you need to find not only a good match with pedigree and conformationally but also in the price point and quality.

Ex I would not breed my mares to a $500 stud fee stallion b/c I would be wasting my mares. I would not get any more of a profit out of that cross then I would out of a $5K or more cross.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> Ex I would not breed my mares to a $500 stud fee stallion b/c I would be wasting my mares. I would not get any more of a profit out of that cross then I would out of a $5K or more cross.


If it were a poor quality stallion I would agree with you but that is not always the case.

Some studs have a lesser fee for reasons but may be quality stallions ( I am thinking English not western).


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

The problem is that unless they are proven it does not matter. Also promotion plays a big part of it. 

Example is Topsail Whiz. He is now the leading sire of reiners and even his last year standing was not even close to being the highest stud fee. Yet if you did not have the right mare to cross on him you would never even come close to getting your money back.

Again to use my example of my mares. Why would I never breed them to a $500 stud fee stallion?? B/C if they where true quality and proven they would not be a $500 stud fee stallion. However I can get and have gotten stallion owners of proven stallions with much higher stud fees to come down to that price point.


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## EternalSun (Mar 29, 2009)

I wouldn't pay for Hickstead. 

I would however, if I had the cash, pay $25,000 for Smart Chic Olena. You can't get much better than that as far as western performance lines.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

EternalSun said:


> I wouldn't pay for Hickstead.
> 
> I would however, if I had the cash, pay $25,000 for Smart Chic Olena. You can't get much better than that as far as western performance lines.



He is one at that price you better have one heck of a mare. You can pick up one of his get for less then his stud fee.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> Why would I never breed them to a $500 stud fee stallion?? B/C if they where true quality and proven they would not be a $500 stud fee stallion.



Again not necessarily true at all and again I refer to the English world.

I offer my stallion as an example at $500.00.

He is horse of the year in jumper and dressage. ALL his foals, even bred to lesser quality mares are up to least the quality of the dam ( the better mares) or superior. All his foal are proven jumpers.

He has a pedigree that has Olympic champions in dressage, jumper and dressage and close up.

So why $500.00...because he is an older stallion and is offered only live and only local....... but that is MY choice.

Maybe it is in the Western world $500.00 stallion or second rate ?????


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Let me ask you this. He is Horse of the year is what association?? Who gave him that title??

Can I get a very very nice stallion for $500? Yes I can get a quality stallion at that b/c of my mares. Not b/c that is their stud fee. 

Let me put it this way. At least in reining. If I bred my NRHA COA and NRCHA COA money earing mares to say a $500 stud fee stallion I would not get top price for that foal. Take a look at the prices of reining stallions whos get command a high price. There is too much cost in training and showing reiners. People want a proven commodity. I have a very nice stallion myself. He has done well in reining and has sired well. I no longer stand him to the public. He has sired Year end high points in 5-6 different events.

Basically what I am saying is that I can esly get $25K+ for a foal out of my mares. That is bred to a nice well bred, performing stallion. Not a top stallion just a nice one. Now IF I breed that same mare to one of the top stallions. Let say I pay the $8K for Gunner. Now I have a foal I can sell for $50K+. Difference in stud fee is $5K give or take but the pay out in the end is $25K+

Take that same mare and breed her to say a $500 stud fee stud that no one has ever heard of even if he has NRHA earnings and you get a $5K foal. That would be a was of my mare. she can command a much better price that what a $500 stud fee stallion will produce or should I say command. No one is going to pay top $ for a foal by a stallion with no recognition. Sometimes it is not the stallion but his owners and the way he is promoted that commands a good price for the foals but in the end it must win.

Perhaps B/C in the H/J world there are a lot of schooling shows and lower level shows. The time for training is a lot less to take a horse and compete with it. The entrie fees are also a lot less. Also there is no earnings to be had at most levels so people are not going to pay top $$ for that type of horse until you get to a high level and most people who do H/J never do the top level. Where in reining to even win in the Rookie level you MUST have a top horse. There are no low level local shows. To compete even in green reiners and do well you need a horse who is trained even at that level you are looking at 2 years of training. There is no ground pole or X rail class in reining. I think that is why most people are not going to take a chance breeding to a low level stud fee stallion when they have a mare who can produce a Open level/Aged even horse.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

I think you are confusing quality for price. While I agree that I would look twice at any stallion that is marketed as quality at $500 there are some out there in all disciplines. Sometimes they're great studs standing their first few years and it's a gamble, other times it's an older stud or a stallion with proven offspring but maybe has some fertility problems or sometimes stallion owners are just willing to cut you a deal or make a "sale" to fill their books. Just because it's ONLY $500 doesn't mean its not a good stallion it just means you need to do your homework and there are MORE inferior stallions at that price than champions. Saying there is definitely no stallions with stud fees at or around $500 that are quality and capable of producing champions is just not true.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Find a single Reining stallion who is $500. You might find one like Marthas Mega Jack who are running deals for good mares but those are very very few and fare between. Like I said. I can get a top reining stallion for $500 or less b/c of my mares. However for the average person with a nice mare they are not going to get those deals and it depends on the stallion owner. 

Believe me I am not confusing price and quality.

Here is an good example. Take Nu Chex To Cash. Back the day when all he was showing was AQHA. Now he had a lot of points in reining and reined cow horse. However he could not book a good mare to save his life. His stud fee was only $1500 too. He was owned by one of the top owners out there too so that was not the problem. They ended up bring him back and showing him in NRHA. He did well and got good mares and now look at where he is. He is getting $7500 and booking full. Did his quality change?? No but his performance area did. He went form being a big fish in a small pond to a average fish in a big pond. People started bring good mares to him. He is one that needs a good mare too. Charlie found NCC nitch with certain mares got him proven in NRHA and as they say the rest is history.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> Perhaps B/C in the H/J world there are a lot of schooling shows and lower level shows. The time for training is a lot less to take a horse and compete with it. The entrie fees are also a lot less. Also there is no earnings to be had at most levels so people are not going to pay top $$ for that type of horse until you get to a high level and most people who do H/J never do the top level. Where in reining to even win in the Rookie level you MUST have a top horse. There are no low level local shows. To compete even in green reiners and do well you need a horse who is trained even at that level you are looking at 2 years of training. There is no ground pole or X rail class in reining. I think that is why most people are not going to take a chance breeding to a low level stud fee stallion when they have a mare who can produce a Open level/Aged even horse.


If I were you I would stay within the reining discipline when talking about English training for what you are saying is that it is virtually nothing to train a horse in hunter ( and probably the other English disciplines). That is why I kept referring to English in my previous posts. I actually take offense that you feel that all there is to hunter is ground poles or X rails...that is just so ignorant to make a statement like that.

I on the other hand have said nothing about what you may or may not need for reining as I have little knowledge in that area. There is nothing wrong about saying you have little knowledge in certain areas you know. 

Just for your information at least two foals from my stallion (that I know of...there are probably more) that were up for sale for 20 times his stud fee and for a stallion that I do not advertise that is quite good.

Nitty is right and in my case it IS because he is offered only locally ( he has a very good fertility rate BTW and could be offered nation wise via AI) and I just don't want to get into the expense of AI that he is offered at this rate.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Let's get back to the original topic all...everyone has their own opinions on whether a 500$ stallion is better or inferior to a 15K one...but it's going to come down to what a person is looking for IN a stallion, and whether or not a 'cheaper' stallion is more suited to the breeder's wants. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean inferior either...


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

mom2pride said:


> Let's get back to the original topic all...everyone has their own opinions on whether a 500$ stallion is better or inferior to a 15K one...but it's going to come down to what a person is looking for IN a stallion, and whether or not a 'cheaper' stallion is more suited to the breeder's wants. Cheap doesn't necessarily mean inferior either...



I agree. The stud fee is determined by what the stallion owner feels they can get in the market the horse is advertised in or where the horse is residing along with various other factors as Nitty stated...not totally on the discipline the horse is bred for. There are high and low level shows *in all disciplines* and it is up to the offsprings owner where and how far they go in whatever discipline the horse is found suitable for.

This sometimes isn't even the discipline the horse was originally bred for.

It is obvious to me that Hickstead's owner thought that $15,000.00 was possible but later with the market and other competition stallions that a lower price was a sounder decision.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Spyder said:


> If I were you I would stay within the reining discipline when talking about English training for what you are saying is that it is virtually nothing to train a horse in hunter ( and probably the other English disciplines). That is why I kept referring to English in my previous posts. I actually take offense that you feel that all there is to hunter is ground poles or X rails...that is just so ignorant to make a statement like that.
> 
> *First read what I said. I said that their is that level. You can take a green horse or green rider with very little training in that area and show. There is not that level for reining. You would be surprised at what I know about H/J.*
> 
> ...


That is fine. The thing is with most western disciplines especially reining reined cow horse and cutting no one would touch a foal by a local stallion. Now maybe a gelding once it was fully trained and proven but you would never get your money back. Cost about $35K+ to get a reiner into the show pen and even more for a cutter.

Like I said there are no low level schooling shows unless you count AQHA or something a long that line. There are not low level classes like Cross rails or X rail class. NOW READ WHAT I SAID. Low level classes ones that take very little training and you can take a green horse or green rider too. These do not exist with in reining reined cow horse or cutting. Now there are Green reiners and Green horse classes. However these classes are the same as all other reining classes. The maneuvers are the same the scoring is the same. Can you take an average horse and compete in these classes? Yes you can however you most likely will not be consistent and competitive.


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## AfterParty (Jun 4, 2010)

No way , that's way too much money . I could never justify spending that much for a stud :S


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Spyder said:


> There are high and low level shows *in all disciplines*


Unfortunately this is not true. While their maybe lower levels of shows with in the NRHA, NRCHA and NCHA it is not like other disciplines. Where you can go to a local show and do H/J or WP or Speed events. There are some areas that offer these events at a local level but they are not what I would call reining or cutting. Cutting would be something you might see more out west at a local level but not like what you see in other disciplines.

My point is that unlike WP or Speed events or even most English events that have schooling shows and local shows these do not exist at any real level with in reining, reined cow horse, or cutting. It cost the same to train a green/rookie level horse as it does to train a Futurity horse and if you really want to be competitive in NRHA Rookie classes like running for even an Affiliate Rookie title you better have a horse who can be competitive in the Open level.

Also go take a look. There are no $500 stud fee reining or cutting stallions. If they are at that price they either have no earnings no breeding to speak of and/or people are just hopping if they put that in there they will get more mares. Also b/c of the cost of training, showing and proving a stallion a good reining stallion or cutting stallion will offer shipped semen if not there is a reason like Shinning Spark and a few others who do not. Cost is not a factor as the mare owner pays the cost. I offer it on not only my stallions but out side stallions. Not a hard thing to do.

I will say that I agree there is a place of a $500 stud fee stallion. There are mares who you would not get any more for their foals by a $5K Stud fee stallion then you would a $500 stud fee stallion. This is where knowing your mare is important. You do not want to over price her. Now if you happen to get a nice foal who does what you want. Great. However if you mare can support a the $5K stud fee stallion you are wasting her on the $500 stud fee stallion. Comes down to what people seem to refer to as bettering the breed. I like to look at it as a business and I know what price range stallion I can get the best bang for my buck if I sell. I can show you many example of this over the years. Smart Chic O'Lena is a prime example.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> Now there are Green reiners and Green horse classes. However these classes are the same as all other reining classes. The maneuvers are the same the scoring is the same. Can you take an average horse and compete in these classes? Yes you can however you most likely will not be consistent and competitive.



Thanks for now admitting that there are lower level shows (schooling) in your discipline just as there are in other disciplines.

Now can we do what mom2pride requested and get back to the original topic. 

Maybe you could submit a new thread in the western forum all about reining would be a good idea.


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## TrueColours (Apr 25, 2009)

Not sure where that stud fee amount came from. He is $5500.00 from everything I have read ...

But - from reading comments on another forum, out of the mares bred in 2009, something like 25% of them are expecting 2010 foals, so early reports are not the greatest on the semen viability if that is in fact true


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Spyder said:


> Thanks for now admitting that there are lower level shows (schooling) in your discipline just as there are in other disciplines.



Really I did where?? There are no schooling shows in reining. Now you might find a one class at a local show but they do not use reining patterns it is more of a pattern class like Western riding then reining. There are NO SCHOOLING Shows in reining. Where all that is offered is reining. Read what I type. What you see at local shows that they call western reining is again more like Western Riding then reining. A joke and I do not even wast my time. The AQHA shows are what reiners (NRHA) call practice/Schooling shows.

This leads to the original thread. This is the *BREEDING FORUM*. No one seems to want to pay a higher stud fee for a good proven stallion but they expect the stallion to have all these awards and training and be proven. Every one wants something for nothing. There is a reason why stud fees vary. The more the stallion has won and produced the better the breeding and so on the higher the stud fee. Simple. 

Most people on here seem to think paying any more then a few grand for a horse is too much. Ask them read other threads if you do not agree. Yet they want that same horse to be boom proof. Some times you might get lucky and find one for a low price. However most of those low priced horses are so for a reason. Same with stallions and stud fees.

It all comes down to the same thing. Get what you pay for. Some times you get lucky and get it for less but that is the exception not the rule.



Spyder said:


> Maybe you could submit a new thread in the western forum all about reining would be a good idea.


Why this is about breeding and this is the breeding forum. Good breeding practice is good breeding practice not matter the type of discipline.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> What you see at local shows that they call western reining is again more like Western Riding then reining. A joke and I do not even wast my time. The AQHA shows are what reiners (NRHA) call practice/Schooling shows.


Seems to me to be no different than the ...ummm poles and X rails schooling shows you mentioned do not represent a hunter class and at its highest level such as hunter stake I guarantee you, you go a lot higher than 6 inches off the ground.

If you are going to compare disciplines please try to compare equal levels.

If you feel your low level reining is a joke please don't extend that to other disciplines. The kid on their first pony doing their first show don't think they are a joke (even in western classes) so to make them and their efforts not worthy is not being a good spokesperson for western riding.

We all have to start somewhere, even a future champion can and will start in a schooling show. That includes the well bred ones.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> What you see at local shows that they call western reining is again more like Western Riding then reining. A joke and I do not even wast my time. The AQHA shows are what reiners (NRHA) call practice/Schooling shows.




Ouch. That kind of hurt me. I've done some small reining shows with one of my reining mares , and I hardly consider what she does a JOKE. I could easily take her to NRHA shows and kick some stuck up butt, but I don't because I am more focused on barrel racing and rodeo.

Don't think that just because you are competing at these association level shows that you are above everyone else. Western shows DO have lower level events, and I can't seem to figure out why you think they don't.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Every discipline has it's prejudices. Being at a high level of competition in any discipline has it's perks, but those perks should not include belittling the entry level or schooling level competitors. Excelling in any sport should, IMO, come with the price tag off teaching and encouraging those less accomplished rather than telling them what they are doing is a waste. 

The subject at hand was the stallion Hickstead, and whether he personally (not other stallions, in other disciplines) rightfully commanded a $15,000 stud fee.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> Why this is about breeding and this is the breeding forum. Good breeding practice is good breeding practice not matter the type of discipline.


Because it was about whether a person would pay 15k for a breeding to a certain stallion, that's why; not a debate on justifying why you would or wouldn't and why a certain discipline 'demands' that you spend that much. :wink:


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

Nope, can't say that I would, since I could buy an all ready trained warmblood for the same price, they might not be sired by a Olympic medalist, but then again I don't ever plan on going to the Olympics, and I would think it would be cheaper in the long run.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

TrueColours said:


> Not sure where that stud fee amount came from. He is $5500.00 from everything I have read ...



I just looked it up out of curiosity, and that is what I found too: 
HICKSTEAD Stallion Torrey Pines and Ashland Farm : 2010 International Stallion Guide for Sport Horses


Now if I had a really nice warmblood mare I might spend 5500 on a breeding to him. He's a good looking horse.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

yea I think the general consensus is that for $5,500 we would breed to Hickstead but $15,000 for a spectacularly performing unproven genetic anomaly is a bit steep for us.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

What exactly is he? dutch warmblood?


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## kigers4ever (May 31, 2010)

Quote:
_"My 2 Geldings: This stallion is the most outstanding stallion I have ever seen. Quiet as can be and his ability is beyond anything I have ever seen. I tried to see if I could find out how much his breeding fee is tho I could not find anything. I bet it's not anything near the 15,000."_
_______________________________________________________________

I found his web site and it appears that Russel is not being offered at stud right now. As he is in training and showing I can understand that! Russel

Would I pay $15,000.00 for a stud fee???? *NOT* even if I had the money, I would have to agree with a lot of great points already made by others. He is not proven, his bloodlines are readily available and although he jumps wonderfully, his siblings have not shown any apptitude for this or any other sport. I think that others on this board have posted some really great responses.

If I have $15,000.00 to spend on horses, I would rather buy foals or yearlings from proven parents and develop them. Out of that, you may get one or two that you can justify investing money towards training, showing and promoting but to spend it all on one breeding is not justifiable for me. I would not want to put all my chickens in one basket so to speak. In this economy, it's just too risky.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

You know, there is another point that I think we all missed also: Perhaps his owner was counting on the 'brag factor'. I bet there are a lot of people out there that would love to tell anyone that listens that their horse is by Hickstead. 

You know how it goes: "Well you KNOW his/her Daddy went to the Olympics don't you?" I have heard many many such statements. There are a lot of people out there that are extremely brand concious so to speak. I guess they over estimated with a price of $15,000 though.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I wouldn't. Because one, I don't like Warmbloods, and two, I don't breed jumpers.
However, if I were REALLY serious about getting into jumpers or just looking for a prospect to turn and sell for a lot of cash when they're started and I had the money to blow.... Probably.

I can tell you that I'd pay $15,000 to breed to Khemosabi in a heartbeat. 

I think it all depends on the type and quality of horse you're looking to breed for. If you want stock that's come from proven lines (sounds like Hickstead didn't really) then you'll pay for it. 
I know not all good horses come cheap - I've picked up a few steals of a deals along the years - but if you want National/Olypmic quality, you're gonna pay for it.


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## TrueColours (Apr 25, 2009)

My Kyrie D'Triomphe mare is by Heisman, the stellar SF stallion that took Michael Matz to the '92 Olympics and during the 1992 Olympic Trials, Heisman had just one rail down over the 10 grueling rounds and finished out as the number 1 qualifier for the USET's assault on the Barcelona Summer Games.

She is out of Cant Act - the dam of Grande Saber, making her a half sister this this phenomenal, now deceased stallion, who competed successfully up to the Open Conformation Hunters, either PSG or GP dressage, Intermediate eventing and was on the USET under George Morris ridden by Chris Kappler, in GP Show Jumping, when he colicked and died. So - absolutely stellar bloodlines on both sides of her pedigree ...

To add to this, due to some issues with Heisman's semen quality at the time, there are very very few offspring on the ground by him - probably around a dozen in total with 5 or 6 mares, maybe one stallion son, and the rest geldings

I am *hoping* that this kind of credibility will translate into a highly desirable foal by my Guaranteed Gold stallion. All we can do is try and see what happens but it really seems to me, so far, that because these names are in the past and not the "Flavor of the Month" that many many people dont even KNOW who Heisman or Grande Saber were, and those names and results dont mean anything to them

Here is a picture of Heisman at the '92 Olympics. Probably one of my favorite jumpers of all time and why I took years to track down a daughter of his to put into my breeding program ...


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Hickstead by the way is by Hamlet, just in case anyone was wondering.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

True....will you just adopt me and my mare?


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## TrueColours (Apr 25, 2009)

> True....will you just adopt me and my mare?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

You are TOO funny!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## iluvhorses101 (Jun 27, 2010)

it depends on the horse... no if it wasn't registered,but if the stud had good bloodlines i would


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

if i was a rich horse breeder and had a mare worthy of a stud worth 15,000 then yes. i would also make sure the stallion was worth 15,000.


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## ilovemyhorsies (Mar 9, 2008)

I googled 'hickstead stud fee' and it came up with..



> Experienced horseman and breeder, Francis Berger, is the exclusive North American agent representing Hickstead. Due to Hickstead's competitive schedule, limited doses of frozen semen are available on a first-come, first-serve basis at a cost of $5,500 US per dose.


...so I'm a little confused??


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

i would. maybe on that horse, but i definitly would on a wp horse


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

ilovemyhorsies said:


> I googled 'hickstead stud fee' and it came up with..
> 
> 
> 
> ...so I'm a little confused??


If you would have read the thread you would have found out that the stud fee was changed.

The $15,000.00 was a fee that was bantered around shortly after Hickstead won the Olympic gold but was change later.


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## saberdanes (Jun 29, 2010)

Not me! too much for my pocket book.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I would wait until he's had a few foals on the ground. As happens with many studs, especially in the jumping/racing world where only a very small handful of all the stallion's crop actually have any talent close to the stallion's & it would be a waste of money to spend that much on a fee & not have a good chance of earning it back with the foal later on.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

lilruffian said:


> I would wait until he's had a few foals on the ground. As happens with many studs, especially in the jumping/racing world where only a very small handful of all the stallion's crop actually have any talent close to the stallion's & it would be a waste of money to spend that much on a fee & not have a good chance of earning it back with the foal later on.



He was imported from Europe a few years ago where he already had foals born.

The problem with this horse seems to be fertility as very few are around.


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## payette (Jun 3, 2010)

If I had the money to spare, I'd consider an really expensive fee, if the stallion was amazing, and so was my mare. However, it is not on my list of things I'll be doing soon!


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## Azale1 (Jul 5, 2010)

No I never would. 1 I would never pay that much for a stud fee and 2 He is unproven. I have seen the results of unproven stallions before, and therefore I would never breed to one.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Azale1 said:


> No I never would. 1 I would never pay that much for a stud fee and 2 He is unproven. I have seen the results of unproven stallions before, and therefore I would never breed to one.


I assume you mean that to be unproven in the breeding shed ?


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

I am really in love with this colt by Hickstead!!


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

Im late to this thread... but if i had an extra 3 million (If i only had that much money i would use it to buy other thigns.. but if i had extra...) I might, BUT i would want to see how he was being handled... I would NEVER breed to a stallion without knowing how he was in the mind. 

but if he was sound in his mind i would definitly do it.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

that colt does look quite nice


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

> that colt does look quite nice


I can't wait to see how he matures!!!! I think there is a Hickstead colt in FL who looked like another nice one!!

Kristine


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## Althena (Sep 15, 2010)

I am sorry, but 15,00 is enough to breed to proven stallions at least twice. Unless he was the only horse to have 10 times more to offer then ANY other breed, I would look for another horse to breed to that did not break the bank.


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## BarnBratt (Oct 11, 2010)

Hicksted did awfully good at WEG. Maybe if he was proven, yes, I would pay the stud fee.


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## HNS101 (Oct 26, 2010)

haha hell no!!!!!!! i would for Afire Bey V!


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## RenexArabs (Oct 13, 2009)

LOL we already have some crazy stud fees with arabians!!!

Update on that Hickstead colt. he is a fantastic dark mahogany, maturing very nicely!! Soooo athletic!! He received a first premium at the Alberta Dutch Keuring in September.

This was taken in July.










It will be neat to watch the Hickstead's and see where they go in thier careers. No doubt hickstead is one of the most talented stallions to pass over the painted bars. Now we just see if he sires as such.


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## BarnBratt (Oct 11, 2010)

Hickstead was named best horse of the discipline in Showjumping at WEG


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## SunShineMeadows (Oct 26, 2010)

Earlier in this post, someone mentioned if they had a mare that jumped almost Olympic level (GP) that they would. I have a mare who jumped at that level, and I still can't justify paying that much, for the same reasons you all have mentioned previously. 

Even when he has a few offspring on the ground, and perhaps are proving themselves to be quite handy in the jumping right I still wouldn't. Not when horses like Indoctro, who is one of the most well known jump sires out there - many horses competing GP have him in their lines, is still avaliable for only about 2-3k. He has the performance record, he has the height and he's more than proven himself as a stallion. 

JMO.

Also never been a huge fan of Hickstead as a horse, his performances are amazing but he is very small - and I think we all know, that people tend to prefer a taller horse when they're buying. It's just a mentality a lot of people seem to have. So unless he produces really fantastic babies, they might be a harder sell.


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## Gus (Oct 22, 2010)

i agree no way!!!!! First off, you don't know how this foal (if you paid that much) would turn out. Second he could be spirited, head strong etc and his foal could pick up that from beeding If you were rich and had several million dollas to make up for it then sure go for it, or you had a EXTREMELY good mare. But I would never pay 15g for one foal....


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## ellygraceee (May 26, 2010)

I would. 

BUT only if they can guarentee that the foal is invincible and has rainbows shining its butt.

And that's never going to happen, so that's a definate no.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Again it would depend on several factors. I personally would not give $.15 to breed to that stallion. He does not fit what I do. That being said there are several $10K plus stallions that I would use with my mares. It comes down to the mares when you are looking to pay a higher stud fee. I could breed my mares to a stallion with a $10K stud fee and make 5X plus on the foal from what I have into the stud fee. Use the wrong mare and you will not even get your stud fee back on the same stallion.


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