# Head tossing while riding



## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

No rude or mean comments please

My gelding has started to toss his head while riding! hes had his teeth done, he just got chiroed and massage, hes at a good weight, vet cleared him last spring and ill be getting him out again in the next month or so. I ride with soft hands and hes been using the same bit that he listened very well to in the fall.

He pins his ears and tosses his head when i cue him with my voice (legs or seat) even when he trots off himself he does this when i slow him back to our warm up walk he gets really bad after a few minutes, i usually apply a little pressure to get him to stop but sometimes he still tosses his head. bareback and in saddle and the saddle does fit him. he rode fine in the fall and beginning of the winter i stopped riding him when it got cold, and did a lot of ground work with him instead. i have him a short shank dog bone bit that he use to love. 

Anything i can do to make him stop? or get him to listen better!?


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Are you able to post a video?

Sounds like you've taken most of the steps to make sure it isn't a pain issue and that is good. Very well that it could be a behavioral issue that he picked up if he WAS in pain at some point. Or he could just be spoiled. ;-)

Do you have a trainer you can work with? It will be a matter of re-training your horse to be accepting of the bit, and your cues. I'd also consider possibly putting him back into a plain snaffle (no shank) and "restart" him so to speak. 

When I bought my Red, he had some pretty bad manners with throwing his head and fighting the bit. It was a slow process but he rarely does it anymore, although he'll try it every now and then. 

Biggest thing is that you have to always be ready to correct him. But at the same time, you don't necessarily need to prevent him from doing it. Let him make the mistake; that's okay! That's how they learn.

It's really all about feel and timing on when/how you should correct him. This is where it is probably easier to take a couple lessons with a training to help show you in person,a nd give you instant feedback in person. This is one of the reasons why I personally continue to take reining lessons a few times a year because it helps keep both me and my horses sharper and keeps them more responsive to the bit and my cues.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

could it have anything to do with flies? I used to ride a hrose that was a nut case if even a gnat touched his nose. had to ride with a mesh cover on his nose, at anytime in the spring, summer, fall.


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

No there hasn't been any flies in my arena and very few around my farm. I was thinking maybe ulcers as he was thin when i got him two years ago and now hes finally keeping weight on. I don't have a trainer right now but am looking for one that is close or that will come to my place. haven't found any yet as there aren't many English trainers in my area. I've tried to switch to a snaffle but he wont listen to it so i switched him into the bit i'm using now.

Is there anything that i could do myself? usually my horses that have done this are easier to work out of it but he seems to work himself up and do it to himself.

I ride by myself, there isn't anyone else that rides with me or comes out to the barn with me to record me :/


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

HarleyWood said:


> I ride by myself, there isn't anyone else that rides with me or comes out to the barn with me to record me :/


If you need an impromptu cameraman, the way I do it is to set up my phone on a barrel/jump standard/fence post and record. I try to point it to a spot that will give at good picture for at least part of the ride without me being a tiny spec on the screen. Make sure you have enough memory free for 30+min worth of video. Then I upload it to my computer and edit it to shop out the parts that I'm not in.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

It sounds like attitude to me, since you have checked teeth, back, saddle fit etc. Does he do it in turnout too? Or only when you're riding? 

My green mare started doing this under saddle last spring. At first I ignored it hoping it was a "phase", but sure continued and I started correcting it. She would do it when riding in company or on her own, particularly at the trot and in upward transitions.

Eventually she had a massive barnsour episode which we are still working through slowly. She hasn't shaken her head in a long time now. I think the head shaking was the first visible symptom of a slow-brewing rebellion in her case.

I personally wouldn't let it slide. Correct him and push him forward. Let him know you don't like his new trick.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

HarleyWood said:


> I don't have a trainer right now but am looking for one that is close or that will come to my place. haven't found any yet as there aren't many English trainers in my area.


Why not a Western trainer?

Basics are basics, whether it is English or Western. The principles are the same. You have a very "basics" problem with your horse (becoming soft to the bit), so a trainer in either discipline should be able to help you. 



HarleyWood said:


> *I've tried to switch to a snaffle but he wont listen to it *so i switched him into the bit i'm using now.
> 
> Is there anything that i could do myself? usually my horses that have done this are easier to work out of it but he seems to work himself up and do it to himself.


And therein lies your HOLE in his training. :wink: While a snaffle may not be the "best" bit for every horse; every horse should at least LISTEN in a snaffle. I always say that I could make a barrel run on my horse Red with nothing but a neck rope. Would it be our best run? Of course not. But I trust him enough that I know that he would _respect _it and _listen_ to it. 

I recommended a trainer because that is going to be your FASTEST course to fixing your horse. When trying to retrain a horse to the bit (and your other cues) it is so much easier to have someone right there in person to give you instant feedback. Did you release the cue too soon? Too late? 
Did you see how your horse just responded to that? 
THERE! Perfect timing. 
Nope, wait a little longer next time. 
You have more contact on your right rein than left rein. 
Keep asking .... now give.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

They can give you that instant feedback on your cues and help you understand timing and feel. We can tell you the steps to take on the internet, but we can't tell you timing and feel. And knowing when you should quit for the day. Or when you should keep pushing. Every horse and every situation is different. 

If he won't even listen to you in a snaffle, then that's the place I'd start. Get him listening in a snaffle and giving to the bit. If you've got to go all the way back to the round pen to do it, then so be it!



HarleyWood said:


> I ride by myself, there isn't anyone else that rides with me or comes out to the barn with me to record me :/


I do what the other poster suggested. I ride by myself too so I will set up my video camera on a barrel or a post and work my horse in front of it. Any shots where I am out of the camera range, I just simply edit them out. At least it is something, even if (obviously) you can't operate the zoom.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Sounds like something is irritating him, could be metabolic or rider irritant. Solution: find the source of the irritation and remove it.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Have his teeth checked again but by someone else if that is possible.

I've seen teeth go south in only a few months, or not get totally repaired the first time.

Also, have you changed bits or head stalls? Changed adjustments?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

beau159 said:


> I recommended a trainer because that is going to be your FASTEST course to fixing your horse. When trying to retrain a horse to the bit (and your other cues) it is so much easier to have someone right there in person to give you instant feedback. Did you release the cue too soon? Too late?
> Did you see how your horse just responded to that?
> THERE! Perfect timing.
> Nope, wait a little longer next time.
> ...


While I agree with everything that Beau says, this bit should so be a sticky somewhere, explains EXACTLY why so often the only sensible answer is "Get a trainer" 
http://www.horseforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Have you changed his bridle recently, a horse will toss his head around it the browband is too small for him.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Agree with what Beau and others have said, esp the fact that he was moved form a snaffle, because he did not listen to it
That shows basic holes in training, and to which you applied a bandaid solution, going to a bigger bit, which worked for awhile, bur as lal bandaids, wears out!
You have done the dental, ect, so I can only guess, not seeing him ridden, that he never truly learned to give to a bit. This means , that a horse also accepts contact, when asked to, giving at the face and poll, lightly, waiting for that rein release, versus demanding it, by either pulling, fidgeting or tossing head
I second getting a trainer, putting the horse back in a snaffle and having someone show you how to get a horse soft in his entire body, which does not happen, just going to a curb
You need to be able to hold, and drive with legs, until the horse is giving. If , instead, he learns by tossing his head, he does not have to give, but can in fact, pull those reins through your hands-well, being ahorse, he will use it


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

It could be lots of things. 
My gelding did one time last year because he had a scrape behind his ear and the bridle bothered him. If you've had his teeth checked, touch him all over his head and see if it's some kind of irritation. It's also shedding season and some horses will get a little itchy because of shedding and do that from time to time in the early spring. Then there are the flies.... If you've eliminated pain issues, something's bugging him, or he's just a brat.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

How often and much have you worked with this horse since you got him? Have you had him working through all the seasons? I have a head shaker, and have read a lot about it. There are many potential causes and you have to be a detective to find out which one might apply to your horse. 

-Have you had the horse working in this season? Some head shakers seem to be triggered by allergies, and that can mean something that started blooming recently or something that has bloomed this year due to unusual weather.
-Has your horse had any type of injury to his head or neck such as from pulling back? They believe some head shakers have trigeminal nerve damage, so depending on the place it is damaged and how severe it was, the head shaking can be triggered by sunlight on the face, wind in the face, sweat on the face, or pressure from tack. 








-Some people with head shakers have found that putting a nose net on the bridle when riding gets rid of the behavior. It's possible using a different bridle or bit may relieve the pressure area.
When a damaged nerve fires, it feels like an electrical shock or a stinging/burning sensation, which horses often try to shake off. 

If the horse's head shaking is only triggered by certain, annoying cues from the rider, that is a different thing that should resolve by working through it. That is, as long as the cues aren't triggering nerve pain such as from a bridle or bit that triggers the damaged area of the nerve. It is usually fairly easy to tell if a horse throws the head when the bit is applied because they object to it versus a horse that is a head shaker.

Chronic head shaking is something that is difficult and sometimes cannot be completely resolved. My mare rarely head shakes in the winter, only sometimes if we go out in a strong wind. In the summer she head shakes frequently, and it seems to be triggered by sweat on her face. It is unrelated to cues, and she most often does it when walking along on a loose rein.

If you're not talking about head "shaking," but instead the horse just throws his head up, that can sometimes mean pain in the axis/atlas area on top of the neck. You could try flexing him there to see if it's painful.


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

I adjusted his bridle, so i could fit two fingers under itand switched him to his snaffle. and he was still head tossing i didnt even use my reins during my ride. when ever i asked for him to walk he would pin his ears and toss his head still and i only used my voice. he would walk around fine with a level head. I didnt ask for a trot or anything else besides a walk from him. his other bridle didnt have any browband on it i took that off a while ago because i know it was too small.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

So am I getting this right, that he only tosses his head and pin ears when you ask for a transition, or for him to move faster? But then he will walk calmly? Sounds to me, barring pain such as ulcers, that he is just spoiled. He is throwing a fit because you told him its time to do something and he doesn't want to.

My mare used to buck or grind her teeth, always with pinning her ears whenever asked for anything more than a turtle speed walk. She had a few lessons in what is acceptable behavior and now moves off my leg like a perfect lady.

That is assuming he only does this when you ask him to move forward or faster.


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## HarleyWood (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes, when i ask him to move with just my voice he does this. when asked to stop with reins he does this. he doesnt always like to stand still. he usually will walk and walk with no issue and will want to go faster but lately he wants to stop and toss his head and pin his ears.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Sounds to me like he's got your number!

Pending definitely no pain/discomfort from gut issues, back/neck issues, saddle fit, bridle fit etc then you need to start looking at how you're riding him.

I question what you mean by soft hands. To some, their idea of soft hands is not intentionally pulling. However their elbows are not elastic and as a result they accidentally bump the horse's mouth each stride, or as soon as the balance changes I.e., transitions, changes of rein.
Perhaps try riding with a crop under your thins so you have a visual point to see just how steady your hands are. Make sure your elbows are heavy and acting as a hinge allowing your hands to follow the neck. 


If your hands are perfect, then you need to look at training. Given you have said your horse won't listen in a snaffle... Go back to a snaffle!! What are you using right now?
There are a few varieties of snaffle, I always love the French links, however my young horse doesn't like them and goes better in the standard single joint. You need to fiddle until you find one that the horse is happy in, without increasing severity. 

Now - we have a tendency to think that if the horse tosses its head, it's a head issue. Given that this horse only tosses during transitions, I'll take a stab in the dark and suggest this to be a balance issue, that your horse is on the forehand. A classic sign of being unbalanced and on the forehand is head tossing. They do this because their head and neck act as a balancing point. Like a cheetah uses his tail to counter balance taking corners at speed, a horse uses his head. When all his weight in on his front legs already, asking for a transition without engaging the hind legs is going to load those front legs up even more. So to avoid falling on his face, he throws his head. 

How to rectify this? Learn how to ride the horse off the forehand. And to do this, your best bet is a trainer because unfortunately people trying to learn it out of books and videos tend to wind up riding backwards. 
Essentially, you want to feel like you are driving (riding) your car (horse) up the up ramp in a parking complex. The back is pushing the front up the slope. Rather than the front acting like a plow and dragging the hinds along behind.

Improve the balance and the horse no longer has a need to toss.


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