# Flat critique for horse & rider



## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

I did not intend to post anything for critique, though I have been critiquing others and thought I would post just for the fun of it. The horse is not mine, is 3 yrs old (off the track but not raced). I starting training him in May of this year; he is a super smart little guy and a very quick learner.

Recently, we have been working on accepting the bridle and moving forward. We also need work on our transitions... in terms of keeping in frame and not falling apart (especially in downward transitions). Also, I know we need to work on keeping impulsion in our turns/corners. I pretty much know what we still need to work on, but am interested to hear other's feedback regardless. Please critique both horse and rider, but please keep in mind his age in doing so.

These videos are a few weeks old, meaning that the gap in time has left room for him to have improved. These videos do not show his best, but portray a good idea of where he is in his training. We are also working on being able to go from a canter to a nice trot instead of getting excited and anticipating another canter cue again!

Trot #1-




 
Trot #2-




 
Canter #1 (in this video he shows as better on the left than the right; he has improved on that since)-


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

In the first video you are behind the movement and not balanced, you lower leg is too far forward. You need to bring your leg back, then your body will be more balanced and this will allow your hands to be independant and you can carry them more, until you get that basic right the horse will not be able to come into a correct contact.  Nice horse who is moving freely.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Clava said:


> In the first video you are behind the movement and not balanced, you lower leg is too far forward. You need to bring your leg back, then your body will be more balanced and this will allow your hands to be independant and you can carry them more, until you get that basic right the horse will not be able to come into a correct contact.  Nice horse who is moving freely.


Thank you for the feedback. That is one issue I have been having....
I had access to a dressage saddle at the beginning, which allowed for the proper shoulder/hip/heel alignment, but now I only have a jumping saddle that fits him, and the way the front of the saddle is (worn) does not allow for me to keep that same perfect alignment. I noticed the "very slightly pre-chairseat" feeling the first ride in the new saddle. :-(

Can you please elaborate on: "this will allow your hands to be independant and you can carry them more"?


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

LostDragonflyWings said:


> Thank you for the feedback. That is one issue I have been having....
> I had access to a dressage saddle at the beginning, which allowed for the proper shoulder/hip/heel alignment, but now I only have a jumping saddle that fits him, and the way the front of the saddle is (worn) does not allow for me to keep that same perfect alignment. I noticed the "very slightly pre-chairseat" feeling the first ride in the new saddle. :-(
> 
> Can you please elaborate on: "this will allow your hands to be independant and you can carry them more"?


 
Sure  because you are not balanced (rising from behind your leg) your hands cannot be completely still or carried and more forward. your hands are good and light but without your body being balanced the forces are always fighting. I think even in that saddle you should be able to bring your leg back a bit (try not to fit your leg to the saddle but ignore it's shape). I think english riding in the US is different to english riding in the UK, but here we try and carry our hands and ride more into a contact allowing the horse to seek the bit. Hope that helps. 

Your canter is very different from what would be expected over here so I haven't commented, the low head carriage and short lopey strides are not what I'd expect a canter to be. We work on being more forward and head carriage more up and out on the neck with the head vertical, but I don't think you are aiming at that

(I also have to remind myself to carry my hands - my avatar shows this, my reins should be shorter and my hands more carried to allow more space between them and me, my horse is behind the vertical)


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks for the elaboration.

Not to sound argumentative, but I checked older videos of me riding in my jumping saddle (not the saddle in the video), and I was able to have a much better alignment. This saddle (in the video) keeps your leg more forward, unfortunately. I will have to see what I can do next ride... without starting to flop around too badly. :wink:

Here is a video from around the time when I *first* started working with him (same saddle).-- Please DON'T critique the horse/rider in this particular video as it is old..... but you may use it to compare progress and/or things still needing work.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

A huge improvement - well done


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Clava said:


> A huge improvement - well done


Thanks! He has been a fun project.
It's hard to believe his age, as he behaves better than my 14 yr old TB! :lol:


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## hflmusicislife (Dec 15, 2010)

Unfortunately my internet is very slow and I was only able to watch portions of the videos, so I can only critique the bits I saw. 

As was already stated, your leg needs to be back a little more. I completely understand the saddle thing; that's what my own saddle does and it's absolutely horrible and impossible to ride in but I just try to work around it as absolutely nothing fits my mare... You could also have a bit more bend in your elbow in some spots. You look like you have a very long torso so I understand where that would be difficult, but relaxing through your arm a little more would help you flow better with the horse. You also looked like you got bounced around a little at the trot so try holding the "down" part of your post a hair longer. 

Overall, very nice job. You've made a lot of progress and he moves quite nicely. LOVE the name by the way!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

hflmusicislife said:


> Unfortunately my internet is very slow and I was only able to watch portions of the videos, so I can only critique the bits I saw.
> 
> As was already stated, your leg needs to be back a little more. I completely understand the saddle thing; that's what my own saddle does and it's absolutely horrible and impossible to ride in but I just try to work around it as absolutely nothing fits my mare... You could also have a bit more bend in your elbow in some spots. You look like you have a very long torso so I understand where that would be difficult, but relaxing through your arm a little more would help you flow better with the horse. You also looked like you got bounced around a little at the trot so try holding the "down" part of your post a hair longer.
> 
> Overall, very nice job. You've made a lot of progress and he moves quite nicely. LOVE the name by the way!


Thanks!
In regards to the bouncing around, is that in all of the videos or were you looking at a particular video (trying to see what you are seeing)?


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## hflmusicislife (Dec 15, 2010)

LostDragonflyWings said:


> Thanks!
> In regards to the bouncing around, is that in all of the videos or were you looking at a particular video (trying to see what you are seeing)?


Both the trotting videos (in the first minute or so anyway.) I guess bouncing isn't the best word, but when you sit your post you look like you pop up a tiny bit before rising to post. It may just be the way the horse moves though that sort of lifts you off the saddle a little. Just try to sit a little heavier. I do the same thing when I ride anything with a big stride since I'm used to riding small greens haha.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Is your goal jumping, dressage, or something else? Not all English riding desires shoulder / hip / heel alignment.

I took this picture from a book by George Morris to show I'm not crazy when I say that. He complimented the lady in this picture:


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

hflmusicislife said:


> Both the trotting videos (in the first minute or so anyway.) I guess bouncing isn't the best word, but when you sit your post you look like you pop up a tiny bit before rising to post. It may just be the way the horse moves though that sort of lifts you off the saddle a little. Just try to sit a little heavier. I do the same thing when I ride anything with a big stride since I'm used to riding small greens haha.


Okay. I am trying to see what you are saying and I think I see it, though agree it might be how the horse moves. Will have to check that out! Thanks.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

bsms said:


> Is your goal jumping, dressage, or something else? Not all English riding desires shoulder / hip / heel alignment.
> 
> I took this picture from a book by George Morris to show I'm not crazy when I say that. He complimented the lady in this picture:


I do eventing, but this little guy isn't mine and is for sale as a hunter or dressage prospect. I used to ride hunters, but have been in training for eventing for a little over a year.


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Anybody else?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Wow. I disagree pretty strongly with the critiques give so far. I think you did splendidly. This is a young horse with a big trot and a lot of forward. He isn't going to be super balanced or collected and you aren't working o that. He will have a lot of "bounce" and that means you will, too. 
I thought your posting was in very good synch with the energy, lift and rythm of the hrose. Yes, the forward seat saddle had your leg a tiny, and I mean tiny, but too forward. But, you were light and had a very sympathetic seat for a green hrose.

Especially noteworthy was the wonderful quietness of you hand. Look at it. really look at it. It never bobbles but rather gives the horse a steady and neutral contact. you let the young horse have a lot of head but he was connected.

your canter was rock solid from waist down, again , steady hands from what I could see. 

Other than seeing you "piano hands" it from time to time, I could not think of one critisism for that ride on that horse and for those purposes.

WELL DONE!


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## Black Out (Aug 5, 2012)

You guys look very nice and seem like a great team! I think when you're posting, I'd like to see you more open when you rise and then close back when you sit. When you post, your hip angle should be opening. What I mean by that is when you rise, do it like your height's being measure, you want you upper body to be straight. Another thing is, try to quiet your hips a bit at the canter. But I think that's it. I really like the horse you're riding and I like your position as well!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> Wow. I disagree pretty strongly with the critiques give so far. I think you did splendidly. This is a young horse with a big trot and a lot of forward. He isn't going to be super balanced or collected and you aren't working o that. He will have a lot of "bounce" and that means you will, too.
> I thought your posting was in very good synch with the energy, lift and rythm of the hrose. Yes, the forward seat saddle had your leg a tiny, and I mean tiny, but too forward. But, you were light and had a very sympathetic seat for a green hrose.
> 
> Especially noteworthy was the wonderful quietness of you hand. Look at it. really look at it. It never bobbles but rather gives the horse a steady and neutral contact. you let the young horse have a lot of head but he was connected.
> ...


Oh, wow. Thank you very much!
Yes, his trot initially took some getting used too! My own horse's gaits are extremely smooth and easy to ride, and other than our pony and my trainer's horse twice, I hadn't ridden a different horse in years. I am really enjoying working with this guy, as not only have I been able to teach him things and see him grow, but I have bettered my riding in the meantime.

Like I mentioned prior, this guy is for sale, but I can not wait until I can afford to buy another horse for myself and work with him/her like I have with this guy. I am a progress junkie and it's so much fun!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Black Out said:


> You guys look very nice and seem like a great team! I think when you're posting, I'd like to see you more open when you rise and then close back when you sit. When you post, your hip angle should be opening. What I mean by that is when you rise, do it like your height's being measure, you want you upper body to be straight. Another thing is, try to quiet your hips a bit at the canter. But I think that's it. I really like the horse you're riding and I like your position as well!


Thanks for the feedback!
I try not to be too restrictive with my seat, especially at the canter, as he is young and I want to encourage him to move forward and stretch.
Thanks again!


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

bsms said:


> Is your goal jumping, dressage, or something else? Not all English riding desires shoulder / hip / heel alignment.
> 
> I took this picture from a book by George Morris to show I'm not crazy when I say that. He complimented the lady in this picture:


But this clearly shows the heel and shoulder alinement which is crucial. The OP has her heel forward of her shoulder and that is making her out of balance with the horse and stopping independant seat and hands, but the horse has improved no end so I'm sure with some tweaking of her position it will continue to do so


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

I actually do have to question a little the fact of my legs being a very slight tad too forward being an issue, in these videos, in terms of my balance affecting the horse. When he lifts his head back up that's a mixture of me not pushing him forward enough with my legs and my hands not perfectly holding the contact when his head goes down (not talking about my hand steadiness, but my contact/softening), not my body throwing him off. He has had some stellar days where we have been able to keep a nice frame for just about the entire ride and keep pushing from the behind fairly well... all times using the same saddle, and therefore same leg position. In fact, the day before these videos was one of those days.

While I do agree that being aligned is ideal, like I said, I do have to question on that factor.

I could maybe see where if I heavily used my stirrups there would be an issues of my legs being too forward causing me to fall back into the saddle, but I don't rely on them that heavily. As the videos show, I do keep weight in my stirrups, but it's mainly leg and seat doing the work.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree with Tiny, I was very impressed. The horse looked very relaxed and I my first thought was your hands were nice and quiet. Well done.


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## xoagoldzippoxo (Aug 8, 2012)

The horse has really good movement and looks great for a three year old, good job! Your saddle doesnt look like it has much of a knee roll, causing your legs to slip forward and your alignment to be off. He does look kinda of bouncy, i think you should push down with your heels more and grip with your legs without pinching with your knees. You are a really good rider and this three year old looks great! Good luck!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Thank you both!


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## katie333 (Jul 27, 2012)

Your arms look very rigid and stiff when you trot. It would look smoother and more even if you bend your arms when you sit, and extend them when you rise  just a suggestion haha


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