# How do you feel about sending horses off to trainers?



## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

3. The owner has gotten up in their age, and doesnt want any broken bones or to stop riding either, so off to the young trainer it goes.


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

I would only send a horse to a trainer if I could see it everyday or there about to make sure it is being treated fairly and kind


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## sillyhorses (Sep 2, 2011)

If I sent my horse to training, I'd be going, too (which is what I've done in the past). What is the point of sending my horse for training, if I'm not learning how to properly utilize that training?


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Beyond sussing out poor prior training/dangerous behaviours, I really enjoy the journey of bringing a horse along. My days of working through dangerous issues is long-passed, though.

Having said that, we have a coming 3 year old Gotland Horse (pony) that I will send for official training either fall of 2013 or spring of 2014, depending on his growth. His mind is more than ready. He ties, trailers, trims, clips, ponies our (30lb) son around not only in the arena and strange arenas, but also on trail rides, albeit always dallied. Our son likely has another year of being a passenger, or pretty close to it, so I see no reason to rush the horse. He hasn't been bitted but did pick up on direct reining in his rope halter in less than 5 minutes. My son doesn't quite have the drive/dexterity/stregth to use this tool, yhough he's starting to show an interest. Smartest, sanest and kindest mind I've ever seen on a young horse. It is a joy to pick his brain and teach him new things. 

I will send this little guy to a trainer I've specifically chosen for him because I want to set him up for the best possible learning experience. I want him to learn about leg/seat/focus from someone who has the patience and skill to teach him. The lady I've chosen asks her mounts to work hard, with focus but celebrates each victory. This will be a great way to maintain his eager inquisitiveness. 

My lummox (big, lazy, smart fjordX) needed some strong work ethic and confidence built into him, so he was sent to more of a cowboy. Not ones who DRILLS, but one who wouldn't fuss over anf coddle him. ETA: I've brought him through better form and grace with the help of an excellent coach. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

3- the rider doesn't have the time to spend putting the time into the horse to put a foundation on it the way they want. 

Sending a horse to a trainer doesn't mean that the rider is incompetent or that they don't know what they're doing... That is a very unfair assumption.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

hemms said:


> I agree with you whole-heartedly. Beyond sussing out poor prior training/dangerous behaviours, I really enjoy the journey of bringing a horse along. My days of working through dangerous issues is long-passed, though.
> 
> Having said that, we have a coming 3 year old Gotland Horse (pony) that I will send for official training either fall of 2013 or spring of 2014, depending on his growth. His mind is more than ready. He ties, trailers, trims, clips, ponies our (30lb) son around not only in the arena and strange arenas, but also on trail rides, albeit always dallied. Our son likely has another year of being a passenger, or pretty close to it, so I see no reason to rush the horse. He hasn't been bitted but did pick up on direct reining in his rope halter in less than 5 minutes. My son doesn't quite have the drive/dexterity/stregth to use this tool, yhough he's starting to show an interest. Smartest, sanest and kindest mind I've ever seen on a young horse. It is a joy to pick his brain and teach him new things.
> 
> ...


I understand exactly what you're saying, but I have a question. You want your horse to learn all this.... is this because you don't know how to teach it to him or you just don't want to? 

I'm just kinda picky about training a horse that would be mine (even though I've never had one). It's your horse, you're going to be riding it, or your relative will be riding it. You're going to be feeding and cleaning up after it. It's basically like your child, same responsibilities and same love in a way. So when you send them off, they're basically learning to bond and become in-tune with someone else. Someone else is putting hard work into your project and making it the way you would want it to be. It just seems to me like you're sending off a painting to a professional painter and having them paint the painting for you.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> 3- the rider doesn't have the time to spend putting the time into the horse to put a foundation on it the way they want.
> 
> Sending a horse to a trainer doesn't mean that the rider is incompetent or that they don't know what they're doing... That is a very unfair assumption.


If you don't want to spend time working with your horse to help it become something you want... why have a horse? Not even saying that the rider just isn't competent, but why not be there at least the majority of the lessons to understand how to teach these things, if you didn't know how?


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I don't think enough people send their horses to trainers or wait to long. The best way to break a habit is to never let it begin in the first place. Also you have to learn how to ride a horse before you can train one yourself.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I drove my mom crazy because I refused to let her send my young horse off to a trainer to "get his training out of the way." For me, the only reason to buy a young, untrained horse is so that I can do the training. Therefore, I would settle for no less than being right there at the lessons, and I was blessed with the perfect situation, exactly what I wanted, which was basically to be trained to train my horse. That's how I like it. I won't condemn someone who sends their horse off, there's no reason to condemn them and I admire those who can decide when they need to step down and let a more experienced person take the wheel, but I personally would not do it unless I could at least go and watch them work with my horse.
I would never, ever send my horse somewhere without going to meet the trainer, seeing them work, seeing what they turn out and hearing opinions on them and their facilities. Plus, I would require them to be open to me visiting and hopefully allowing me to interact. I also feel that whoever trains a horse leaves something with them, and I also want to understand the training so that it's not wasted when I get them back. I wouldn't want to change things even minutely with a horse that literally just learned those things.
My 14 year old sister just recently tried to take charge and send her 3 year old off to training (I don't know why my mom let this happen) and, after telling me that I was stupid and that she "knows how to do research" (which apparently consists of looking at a website, not talking to the trainer, asking questions, going to the facilities, etc like I told her to) we sent her off to a woman who told us that the horse was a menace, who bit, kicked, and was so dangerous that we should just send her to auction and get rid of her because "she would kill one of us kids" if we took her back. She then proceeded to let her student sit on the head of the horse (that she was trying to make us buy to replace our "witch," who was supposed to be 4 but had a body more like a newly turned 2 year old), and make the horse lift her up to slide onto her back. The first time she tried, the horse lifted her head when she swung her leg and the girl started yanking on her mouth and aggressively backing her up like she had done something much worse than not want to lift a 90 lb person by a neck that looked too weak to hold her own head up.
Afterwards, while we sat listening to this woman tell us that horses are stupid livestock and should be treated as such and how fantastic she is and how qualified etc. etc., the horse, who was tied next to us, pawed and tried to scratch her head. The lady then looked at us and said, "uh oh, now she's going to get another hour tied up, so she learns to behave herself at the post."
We then walked over to my sister's horse, who was also tied up, and watched her elbow her in the face because she turned her head to her. Being that she was tied to a hitching post with about a foot and a half of slack in her rope, she almost fell.
Now, this horse is definitely not dangerous. Very spoiled, yes, in need of a nice firm hand to counter all the spoiling my sister has done, yes, not a horse to let my little inexperienced sister work with, but as dangerous as this lady wanted us to believe? Absolutely not. This all definitely enforced my requirements for sending my horse to training, to say the least.... The whole way home, I almost peed myself trying not to smack my sister in the head and tell her "I told you so!"


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I understand exactly what you're saying, but I have a question. You want your horse to learn all this.... is this because you don't know how to teach it to him or you just don't want to?
> 
> I'm just kinda picky about training a horse that would be mine (even though I've never had one). It's your horse, you're going to be riding it, or your relative will be riding it. You're going to be feeding and cleaning up after it. It's basically like your child, same responsibilities and same love in a way. So when you send them off, they're basically learning to bond and become in-tune with someone else. Someone else is putting hard work into your project and making it the way you would want it to be. It just seems to me like you're sending off a painting to a professional painter and having them paint the painting for you.



I understand your take and this is why *I* really only want the basics put on *my* mounts. I do believe that building the bond takes place in every aspect of working with a horse... For the pony, in particular, I don't have confidence in teaching clearly & concisely to best benefit his mind. 

I did flap around on my big FjordX for a month before giving in to convention. 1. I didn't know him well enough to trust him on the trail and wanted practical miles put on him to desensitise (back to that getting hurt issue). 2. For the life of me, I could not achieve basic bit & leg respect with this animal, regardless of what I did. I tried everything in my modest 20 year handling history, most of which has worked wonders on others. We were speaking two different languages and my trainer just taught him English, lol.

I trade a small window of bonding time to catapult us forward into more fun and practical bonding time. I enjoy presenting trail and travel challenges and building from that. I need brakes, at the very least, and a sane mind to reason with. The trainer made him understand my hands and with a coach guiding us on the ground, I further achieved lightness, balance, bend, blah blah blah-blah. a fun winter project inside an arena. 

My son's pony is just the opposite for me. Put the technical on him and I want to put the trail miles. Different personalities. Pony wants to please and thinks everything is a good idea, Fjord wants to argue and butt heads. Both fabulous, safe partners.

^shrug^ getting late, thoughts are scattered. Sorry for the disorganisation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Figured out my final answer to your question: personality compatibility. I'd rather someone hash through the stuff I have a difficult time with and allow me to prioritise my precious time as a wife, mom, (4) business(s) owner/operator, etc., doing what really stokes my goat. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Whups. Left out an important part, for me. I think there's some weight to the concept of sending a youngster off to skool to learn about different environments, people handling him, etc. he can only come back more learned.

Of course, I'm very comfortable with the trainers I've selected. No horror stories for my horses, as I know what I'm specifically looking for, having trained several myself, to varying degrees. 

Okay, bed now. I'm just pontificating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

OK YOU READ MY THOUGHTS TODAY!

I got in an argument with a relative who owns the siblings of my two horses. I learned, studied, trained and worked hard for three years and ended up breaking and training my two young arab/qh crosses. I had a trainer TRAIN ME! And I trained my horses. I love them! BUT I get no recognition or respect for my accomplishments. So everything that comes out of my mouth they ignore!

She wants to send her halter broke ONLY 5 yrs old and 4 yr old arab crosses PLUS their 9 yr old mother who WAS broken when they got her but never rode, so now she isnt.....to a trainer FOR A MONTH and have them DEAD BROKE! And she wants this done for under $300..... I dont think I need to explain my points, but I will....

I told her she isnt going to get a dead broke 5 yrs old in a month. She said she would if they where worked with EVERYDAY. I replied that my horses have been worked on EVERYDAY and they are no where near dead broke. THAT TAKES TIME! SPENT IN THE SADDLE RIDING! She said if someone did it for a living then they could... which she isnt going to find a trainer who does this for a living that will charge that LITTLE and get back a dead broke horse.... AND I dont believe that can be accomplished in a month! 

SECOND! She told me she was using a bit for them bc that's what the Bible says... something like "the bit controls the horse". AND I KNOW she says this bc my gelding is in a hack/sidepull. I pointed out that a hackamore IS a bit.... It's called a HACKMORE BIT... but she didnt agree, so I pointed out that alot has happened in the ways of horse training since the Bible, but she says it cant be wrong.... OK not trying to argue religion, BUT THE BIT DOES NOT CONTROL THE HORSE! She argued that my green gelding (who does fine in the hack) wasnt under control the day before when he spooked an ran 20 feet before I stopped him... SO I pointed out that the tom thumb bit style bit I use on his sister didnt control her the year before when she did the same and I ended up unconscious on the ground! She said well... no argument, so I pointed out AGAIN THAT THE BIT DOES NOT CONTROL THE HORSE! Using Julia Goodnight riding bittless and bareback as the example saying "Is her horse not under control? She said it was different bc she had time to train and she, herself doesnt. I said, well, that's beside the point. A horse will go through any bit you put in it's mouth, but you train it NOT to and to respond to YOU. A bit is only to guide a horse, not CONTROL it.... Your training is what makes it do what you want, NOT THE BIT. 

She said she cant get thrown by any of them. So I pointed out that's why most people in their late 60s dont get young horses, LET ALONE arab crosses.....LOL.... 


She of course acted like nothing I said went to her brain, and I was irritated, bc I have succefully trained my horses.... AND I dont think she will keep up on riding them to begin with once they are broke.... IDK someone BACK ME UP HERE!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I used to train for the public, but I have sent my horses to other trainers as well for specific things. A few years ago, I wanted to learn to jump, I had only taken a few jumping lessons years before, not enough to start training my horse to jump. So he went off to a trainer's for a few months to learn, the trainer took him to a few shows in low jumper for me as well. I started all my young horses, but I have sent to them to a reining trainer for a few months after I have started them because she is an awesome trainer, and I like my horses to have some reining basics even though I don't do reining. I can start the horses with the basic under saddle training, etc, but I don't feel qualified enough to train beyond that, I can go to a coach & learn to do it on my horse but I would like my horse to be taught to do those things by someone experienced first. If that makes any sense to you.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I understand exactly what you're saying, but I have a question. You want your horse to learn all this.... is this because you don't know how to teach it to him or you just don't want to?
> 
> I'm just kinda picky about training a horse that would be mine (even though I've never had one). It's your horse, you're going to be riding it, or your relative will be riding it. You're going to be feeding and cleaning up after it. It's basically like your child, same responsibilities and same love in a way. So when you send them off, *they're basically learning to bond and become in-tune with someone else.* Someone else is putting hard work into your project and making it the way you would want it to be. It just seems to me like you're sending off a painting to a professional painter and having them paint the painting for you.



I shared a horse with another rider at a school, and we had a marvellous bond-- so did the other person that rode the horse.

A horse doesnt only bond with a single person for the rest of its life, it can have many different bonds with many different people. 

We would always switch up the horses we rode (friends and me) and create new bonds-- in my personal opinion its better to have a horse that is properly socialized with many different humans, and horses, than a horse that has only been around/ridden by a single person. 

"Bonding" can happen at any time-- you can tell me to hold your horse at a show, and we will bond. Its the relationship you establish with the horse.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

In my case, I adopted a 7 year old unbroke mustang mare because she's a darling of a horse and I feared that someone would take her, never get around to starting her under saddle, and just leave her to waste away. She's at the age where it's not going to benefit her to dwaddle any longer than necessary getting her under saddle. I don't have any actual experience starting a horse under saddle, I don't have the appropriate facilities (ie a round pen), and I'm a full time college student. All of those things mean that I would just end up dwaddling and wasting more time before getting her actually started. It just made more sense for me to polish up all of her ground manners, then ship her off to a trainer (who I KNEW I could trust).

This is her second month of training and she's a rockstar... doing all three gaits and going on trail rides like a pro. She's getting all of the foundation she needs, and next month she'll be coming back so that I can continue her training my way. She'll be ready at that point to be ridden in an arena and on basic trails, and she'll be up to my level of riding experience (I've ridden and trained really really green horses, just never started from scratch myself). I really do think that this has been the best arrangement for her and for me. The trainer is making it possible for my horse and I to "meet in the middle" and carry on. I understand the sentiment of the horse being a reflection of their rider's soul. Fortunately I think that my mare will certainly become a flawless reflection of mine, as I have every intention of taking her on all kinds of adventures with me throughout spring and summer.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

hemms said:


> Whups. Left out an important part, for me. I think there's some weight to the concept of sending a youngster off to skool to learn about different environments, people handling him, etc. he can only come back more learned.
> 
> Of course, I'm very comfortable with the trainers I've selected. No horror stories for my horses, as I know what I'm specifically looking for, having trained several myself, to varying degrees.
> 
> ...


Okay so in the short of it... you send your horses off to training because there are some issues that you yourself can't or don't want to spend the time fixing, you would like to send them to someone who you're sure will get it right and in a decent amount of time so that you can then move on to any other training you would do like jumping/dressage/reining etc? And you also would like to spend less time teaching horses basic things and more time doing what's more important in your life like parenthood and work. And in the end, it actually does more good with your horse because your horse is having his reins passed from person to person and getting experience with all different kinds of people.

Okay I think I get it. I personally just wouldn't be happy with doing it because I haven't had children and horses take up a good chunk of my interest. Almost everything I do involves them somehow, I'm even aspiring to become a publications editor for a horse magazine (guess someday I'll really have to buy a horse =/ ). It just wouldn't sit well with me to decide that I want to own and take care of a horse and then just send him off to someone else while they do all the leadership-building and bonding and teaching. As a horse owner I would want to do the majority of the training since I took him in and promised that I would take care of him. If I couldn't do it, then I would make sure that I learned to, even if I had to go through as rigorous training as my horse in order to understand.

It's like... if I had to compare, my sister-in-law split up with her husband and got a very demanding job in order to make enough money, so she had to send her kids to live with her parents. About a year later, she broke down and just cried because she realized that she wasn't actually raising her kids, they were being raised by her parents and she was missing out. Sure, the kids were in good hands and learning good behavior and school, but their mom was missing out on it. That's kinda how I would feel if I was to send my horse to training, I wouldn't mind the help, but I'd be missing out on the horse making huge strides and learning new things and bonding while teaching the horse. There's nothing like buying a bossy or frightened horse and teaching him that you are a leader and he can trust you, and leading him through all kinds of exercises that by the end, turns him into a fantastic horse to be proud of.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I should have sent one of my previous horses off to training, but I held on and wanted to 'train him through it'. Ended up with a rearer who I later gave away because he was too dangerous for young me to handle.

Long story short... what exactly is wrong with a rider being unable to train their horses themselves? Not all riders are trainer quality, that does NOT mean they are incompetent, it means that perhaps they are learning, or maybe they just don't have it in them to TRAIN a horse. And not everyone sees their horse like their kid, for many they are a competition partner, or a 'tool' in their trade. I don't think it makes some one any less of a rider to want to send their horse off to training.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

toto said:


> I shared a horse with another rider at a school, and we had a marvellous bond-- so did the other person that rode the horse.
> 
> A horse doesnt only bond with a single person for the rest of its life, it can have many different bonds with many different people.
> 
> ...


I see, but you were riding your horse as well. I mean when people send their horse to a trainer for several months, the horse is only seeing the trainer the majority of the time. Horses can definitely bond with multiple people, and even if they bond with one, it doesn't mean the horse won't bond again with someone else.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

I guess people just see horses differently. Some people see horses as hobbies for competition, others see them as pets, and others see them as personal projects. None of those are wrong, I just wanted to be able to understand because I just couldn't comprehend why people would be okay sending their horses off for training for months and not feel like they were just skipping out on the bonding and going straight for performance.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Laffeetaffee, your posts remind me of a strong willed character in a horse movie!! :hug: i mean that in a respectful way, by the way. 


i get what your saying-- kinda pointless to buy a young, un-started horse just to send to trainer. I can agree with that. Some people have their reasons, age, health, lack of knowledge, not wanting to train a horse, etcetera.. as for the show horses-- they were probably bought via bloodline by someone who has a barn full of show horses, and aint got the time to train, but has the money to blow.. not because they wanted to break a young horse, or because they want the satisfaction of training the horse themselves.. 

I wouldnt want to buy a young horse that i would have to train for my own personal use-- id much rather buy one thats trained already.. i think its safe to say id have a horse sent to the trainer out of lazyness/impatience, and it being overwhelming sometimes, even.. and ive got many years experience with horses.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

In some areas it's also cheaper to buy a younger untrained horse and send them off to have them started / trained for you. You get them back and honestly what's the difference between that and buying a horse that was trained prior to purchase?


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

alexischristina said:


> In some areas it's also cheaper to buy a younger untrained horse and send them off to have them started / trained for you. You get them back and honestly what's the difference between that and buying a horse that was trained prior to purchase?


Because when they weren't yours you didn't have the opportunity to be able to help train them. If you buy them and then send them off to a trainer, you're opting out for that opportunity because you're saying you don't want to be involved in that aspect of their lives, whether for time difficulty, a lack of ability, or you're just not interested. And a lot of people are arguing that they simply can't train a horse which is why they send them to a trainer, but I want to ask, why not join in and be trained to train?


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Laffeetaffee said:


> Because when they weren't yours you didn't have the opportunity to be able to help train them. If you buy them and then send them off to a trainer, you're opting out for that opportunity because you're saying you don't want to be involved in that aspect of their lives, whether for time difficulty, a lack of ability, or you're just not interested. And a lot of people are arguing that they simply can't train a horse which is why they send them to a trainer, but I want to ask, *why not join in and be trained to train?*


Because horses are big animals, and some people would rather have their horse trained for them and avoid the danger of riding a greenie. And some people want their horses trained correctly by a trainer, while I do agree that if you want to be 'trained to train' that it's an awesome opportunity, some people don't want energy wasted on them that could be better spent on training their horses. Some people just aren't interested in 'training'. Even with the help of a trainer, some people still can't train a horse. You're not necessarily saying you don't want to be involved, horses in training take a LOT more time than finished horses. Someone who might have time to ride a couple times a week might not have time to ride 5 - 7 times a week.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

So does this mean we can only buy young or untrained horses?? What about all the other horses out there, are we not supposed to buy them or give them homes because someone else has ridden or trained them?? I get what you are saying but had to throw this out there. And with good training no matter who does it we are making it more likely that the horse will not end up in a bad situation and always be useful.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

nvr2many said:


> So does this mean we can only buy young or untrained horses?? What about all the other horses out there, are we not supposed to buy them or give them homes because someone else has ridden or trained them?? I get what you are saying but had to throw this out there. And with good training no matter who does it we are making it more likely that the horse will not end up in a bad situation and always be useful.


I'm not saying we should only buy young untrained horses and train them ourselves, I'm saying if we DO buy a young untrained horse, why would someone feel okay about sending them off to someone else to be trained, rather than join in on the training and learn how to train? When we train horses, we're basically teaching them how to speak to us and bond with us, it's a very personal and sentimental aspect of owning a horse, and you're making it someone else's job. I understand now that many people don't view horses like that, horses can be more like hobbies and competitive accomplishments for the person, I just happen to see them differently.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Because they do. Because it makes them feel safer, they dont have time, they don't know how, etc. training is more professional than it is personal, horses need to learn respect and a rider wanting to use training as a time to just develop a bond can be a rider at risk of doing something wrong. Not saying youre one of those riders, just thy 'training' isn't so 'DIY', if that makes sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

alexischristina said:


> Because they do. Because it makes them feel safer, they dont have time, they don't know how, etc. training is more professional than it is personal, horses need to learn respect and a rider wanting to use training as a time to just develop a bond can be a rider at risk of doing something wrong. Not saying youre one of those riders, just thy 'training' isn't so 'DIY', if that makes sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think it has to be so DIY. If a person doesn't know how to train, they don't know how to train. But they can take their horse to a trainer and the trainer can train the horse while explaining to the owner "now I want to teach this horse to flex laterally using only a light tension on the rein. When I pick up the rein and he turns his head, I reward by letting go. Then I pick up on the rein again and he turns his head and I let go. Now you try." In ten minutes, both horse and owner have been taught something. I can understand not all owners are going to be so easy to teach, but if the owner _wants_ to learn, they have every right to try and learn.


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

I have my horse in full training board and my trainer rides him at least once a week. If I had a young, green horse she would most likely do nearly all the riding for quite a while, and if I moved away I would happily ship any new horses to her for training for a few months. I am a quite good rider, but I am not a trainer and I think those are different things. I don't know how to start a horse, I have very little experience riding green horses and I am not about to start practicing on what I hope will be my future GP mounts because I do not feel I can afford the mistakes. It would not be fair to either of us. I want to set those horses up for success in every way possible so of course I will go to an expert who I have seen teach so many horses how to be dressage horses with kindness and respect.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I don't think it has to be so DIY. If a person doesn't know how to train, they don't know how to train. But they can take their horse to a trainer and the trainer can train the horse while explaining to the owner "now I want to teach this horse to flex laterally using only a light tension on the rein. When I pick up the rein and he turns his head, I reward by letting go. Then I pick up on the rein again and he turns his head and I let go. Now you try." In ten minutes, both horse and owner have been taught something. I can understand not all owners are going to be so easy to teach, but if the owner _wants_ to learn, they have every right to try and learn.


My trainer may ride 20 different horses a day, for varying lengths. Do you really think any trainer is going to put up with this, with 20 different owners, and stand around to wait on them to show up?

Please.

Trainer is there to train horses, and that can't get done if having to chit chat and train owners too, not to mention the owners work for a living most of the time. They don't have the time to come out there every day either. And in many cases? The owners may live in another time zone, we had owners in FL, and their horses were in MO. I've got WP friend that I haul for who has had horses at 6 different trainers, all across US all at one time.

As for the "bonding" deal everyone is so hung up on? Horses are not like that, they are herd animals, dependent on a strong leader, elsewise they would all die out there, waiting to see if they "bonded" with that horse and feel like following them around.

Many people are not capable of training a horse either, they can ride, but being able to train is a whole different matter. They may not have the facilities either, lacking land, barn, arena, indoor round pen, or what have you. Not to mention even with arena, that has to be dragged, which means tractor.

And many trainers are not good at training riders either. They know what to do, but aren't the type to discuss it. They have horse trained, so owner can ride it.

Many people have horses in training that only trainer shows, because they love horses, and enjoy going to shows and watching their horses. Some horses are not, and never will be amateur horses, which means it takes an experienced horseman/woman to ride them.

Not to forget race horses, how many owners are planning to leg up on a Thoroughbred and run around the track?

Training horses is a business, one which you don't have a clue about it seems. You are mistaking the wonder clinics for horse training I think.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Well said Palomine. I simply cannot ride my horse 5-6 days a week like the trainer does. That does not mean that I do not care about my horse or that he is some sort of machine to me. I also do not have the backbone to ride out the foolishness some of the time, since I am a little older. 

OP-I think for someone who has never owned a horse, and apparently has no other life except for horses-I think you have a lot to say. Someday perhaps you will "get it". Because some of us have other things we also enjoy doing or do out of necessity (ie work for a living to pay for the horse feed!) doesn't mean we care any less about our horses or "bond" any less with them. My horse was on full time reining training for 8 months last year. I saw him MAYBE once a month. He knew me every time I walked in.

THe other point is that there are way too many people (especially teenage girls, in my experience) who treat their horses like they will break or "hate them" if disciplined. THis results in a spoiled and many times dangerous animal. These people have no business even attempting training. They ruin horses. I have owned a couple that were the result of this and they are spoiled brats. Some I have been able to fix-others were beyond my abilities (and we all need to know our limits) so off they went to the trainers. Some of which I worked with side by side, and some not.
Until you "walk a mile", so to speak, I think perhaps you should not be so critical.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Laffeetaffee said:


> If you don't want to spend time working with your horse to help it become something you want... why have a horse?


Some people have jobs. The 40+ hours at the office, combined with the drive, then feed the family, clean the house, go to church .. .

Vs the person who is paid to spend the 40+ hours a week in the saddle as oh I don't know - their job . . .


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Or in my case, they had a traumatizing experience and have no problem doing all the groundwork and even saddling a young horse for the first time. But unless the foal I get turns out to be a natural dead head, someone will be putting the first few miles on it. Me being anxious would only set the horse up to fail. I do intend to stop by the trainers a few days a week as I want.to.see the behavior for myself, not pay for training and get the reins back to a bucking bronco after a few months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wallee (Mar 7, 2012)

I have been training for several years now and I do not like the owner being at every training session. I train the horse to do the task appointed to it.... Then I call the owner... Owner gets to my house early on a weekend morning usually and then I train the rider to ride his or her horse properly. A owner being at every session would be annoying and I personally would find them being in the way with asking questions. I do however request they come every 2 weeks at least to see their horses progress and check in on how everything is going.


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## KatieQ (Apr 4, 2011)

I just recently took both my young geldings (21/2 and 31/2) for a month of training, and I went with them. I had previously done my own training, but I was much younger then and also had the time. The trainer worked with both me and the horses, so I could understand her methods and learn how to properly apply them once we got home. It was a wonderful experience and very educational. If I had just sent the horses I would have got two well-started horses back, but would have no idea how to carry on and would probably very quickly ruin all the good work she had done.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Wallee said:


> I have been training for several years now and I do not like the owner being at every training session. I train the horse to do the task appointed to it.... Then I call the owner... Owner gets to my house early on a weekend morning usually and then I train the rider to ride his or her horse properly. A owner being at every session would be annoying and I personally would find them being in the way with asking questions. I do however request they come every 2 weeks at least to see their horses progress and check in on how everything is going.


Some owners cannot stand to see their little pooky get disciplined, and those should DEFINITELY stay away and let the trainer do their work. I had one trainer I could go every day and watch, but I know enough to keep my mouth ****, and he knows me well enough to know that-but my reining trainer basically told me he didn't want to see me for 60 days.....I could call if I wanted.......but he needed that time to undo all the crap that the previous owner had taught the horse, in trying to "train" it. Being as how I only send my horses to folks I either know well, or know someone well who knows them and trusts them, I did not have an issue with that. Noone can do their job with someone looking over their shoulder all the time and questioning them.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

I don't know why everyone is getting so upset, this is a whole new learning experience for me since I've never had a trainer and I didn't realize how different people view horses and training. I can understand a lot of trainers wouldn't want the owner to be around because the reason they sent the horse in for training is to train the horse... I personally would want to be trained how to train not just because I want to gain a deeper understanding, but because I believe that we are constantly training a horse when we work with it and I want to combine good riding with training. I owe it to the horse to know how he learned a certain behavior and to make sure when I'm working with him that I revert back to that training if I need to in order to keep him working at his best. That's just how I feel, I see horses as projects that reflect who I am, I don't simply count on the end result like winning dressage shows or reining competitions only because I don't see that as the main success of the horse. I see the horse's understanding and enjoyment as enough of a success. Winning the competitions is a success more for the rider because winning is only meaningful to the human (unless your racing, then it's a win for everyone). I guess I'm just a lot more interested in the horse, not so much the competitions just because I've never ridden or trained horses for those purposes.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

I just want people to be clear, I'm not saying people shouldn't send their horses to get trained, I think it's an awesome way to have the horse learn exactly what they need to know for each discipline. I've just grown up with a different idea about how to own and work with horses and I didn't realize how differently people view their horses and their training.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

I break. While I can stick to a horse that bolts, rears, crow hops, spooks violently, etc, I cannot sit a bucker, and I would rather not break something. again. Any horse I have that I suspect will try bucking under saddle I will send away for initial training(although I will check in regularly to see progress)


There are tons of people that dont enjoy the intitial training phase and riding very green horses. thus they send them away, ride a few times on their horse with the trainer supervising, and take home a horse that knows the basics already.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I don't know why everyone is getting so upset, this is a whole new learning experience for me since I've never had a trainer and I didn't realize how different people view horses and training. I can understand a lot of trainers wouldn't want the owner to be around because the reason they sent the horse in for training is to train the horse... I personally would want to be trained how to train not just because I want to gain a deeper understanding, but because I believe that we are constantly training a horse when we work with it and I want to combine good riding with training. I owe it to the horse to know how he learned a certain behavior and to make sure when I'm working with him that I revert back to that training if I need to in order to keep him working at his best. That's just how I feel, I see horses as projects that reflect who I am, I don't simply count on the end result like winning dressage shows or reining competitions only because I don't see that as the main success of the horse. I see the horse's understanding and enjoyment as enough of a success. Winning the competitions is a success more for the rider because winning is only meaningful to the human (unless your racing, then it's a win for everyone). I guess I'm just a lot more interested in the horse, not so much the competitions just because I've never ridden or trained horses for those purposes.


Just because a horse goes to a trainer does not mean they are "Finished". IMO a horse is never "finished" just like we are never done learning. 

I would suggest that you not put down those of us who choose to use trainers-for whatever our personal reason-since you have never even owned a horse. It can be really annoying, which is why, at least in my case, I am getting a bit testy.

Competitions are simply a way of judging our progress against others who do the same thing. You sound like you are young. You may well change your opinion on many things in life, and may even choose to compete at some point. Never say never.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I have sent horses to training. I would go and visit the horse for an update but honestly I found even that awkward. I can't imagine doing that everyday. I went out to watch the horse work and everyone at the barn was there . That made for a very awkward and judge filled session with the horse. They all kept talking about how "great a bond" the trainer and the horse had. I got sick of that after about 20 minutes and said "and he will form just as great a bond with whomever buys him". At the end of the day, he is a horse and bonds with the person that feeds him. I have a great mare, I get her and she gets me. She is the first horse I halter broke. She holds a grudge and is clever. I am 90% positive that our bond is in my head, I am okay with that. She likes me well enough but I don't think she regards me as all that amazing. I regard her as amazing. 

I think at the end of the day, I am paying someone to train the horse not train me. I am not saying that training me is not important. I would expect to pay a higher price for training me and the horse. Just because you can train a horse does not mean you can communicate that with the owner.

This summer I will be trying to put some first rides on a mare. This is the first time I have done this after being around horses for 20 years. I am only doing this because I can't find a good trainer and I am sick of fixing training issues. If I could find someone who would do a good job with this horse I would send her in a minute. I don't like hitting the ground and I am sick of riding horses (often from a trainer) that buck or rear. I have reached the point where I don't want to fall if I don't have to.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I'm not saying we should only buy young untrained horses and train them ourselves, I'm saying if we DO buy a young untrained horse, why would someone feel okay about sending them off to someone else to be trained, rather than join in on the training and learn how to train? When we train horses, we're basically teaching them how to speak to us and bond with us, it's a very personal and sentimental aspect of owning a horse, and you're making it someone else's job. I understand now that many people don't view horses like that, horses can be more like hobbies and competitive accomplishments for the person, I just happen to see them differently.


For the same reason I do not repair my own truck. There is someone out there that is a professional and better at it and me wanting the best for my truck and in this case horse. I think no matter who puts training or miles into your horse it will continue to learn until it leaves this earth. Why not start with the best foundation you can??

I do understand what you are saying, and in a perfect world with perfect people that would be awesome!! But, it would not always work out "perfect". Would it be nice to start and finish a horse? YES, I would be proud to say I did that, if I was capable but I am sure there would be holes somewhere as I am not a professional. 

Your idea is great for some and not so great or realistic for others. Please do not think less of those that are incapable of training themselves or make them feel bad for doing the right best thing and getting a professional. A good trained horse (no matter who does it) has a better chance at a long and happy life.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

There's a million reasons why people send horses out to get trained - most or all of them stated above. 

As an ex-trainer I would absolutely encourage owners to come and watch and learn - but that choice was theirs. As long as I got the horse back to them in useable, workable function that they needed, not really my issue.
I never looked at any of my clients as someone who didn't emotionally care about their horse, but someone who was responsible enough to do the right thing - the thing they couldn't.

Bottom line - their horse, their choice. Who cares? 
Why are we judging them on this?


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## Island Horselover (Apr 4, 2012)

Sorry did not read all the comments but here for example I was selling a really well trained horse and when people called me about my mare they asked me who trained that horse and I said, well me and my partner because that is what we do and horses are our live and job, we spend at least 7 hours a day with them, EVERY DAY.... well some people said: Oh, well the horse has not been trained by a "professional" trainer, well then I am not interested. What is wrong with training your horse without certification, I think we have more certification from our horses (as they are well trained) then some people that can proof that they have some kind of "official certification"... I know there is really good certificated trainers out there but before assuming something I would rather go and try the horse out before judging... 

I do agree with the OP in training your horses yourself and having THAT connection with your horse BUT totally understand that some people give their horses away for training - is it because of lack of time, experience or whatever... Just for me personally, I would never give my horses away for training, in fact I am buying horses that have never been handled or have been abused and give them a very natural horselife (outside in herd) and train them the way I want them to be! That is what my life is about and I hope it never changes!!!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm not sure where some people are getting the idea that just because those of us who don't want to train a youngster ourselves, won't have a bond with our horses. Bonds are forged by time and experiences, _not_ initial training.

I got JJ a month after he was let down from the racetrack. I immediately sent him to a professional trainer in order to retrain him to be a saddle horse. He was with her 3 months, and has been at home with me 3 years. Guess who has the better bond with him? Certainly not the trainer! 

I took him on a trail ride with that trainer last year, and she remarked how close he and I were to each other. It's how you treat them AFTER training that matters, not who does their original training.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> Just because a horse goes to a trainer does not mean they are "Finished". IMO a horse is never "finished" just like we are never done learning.
> 
> I would suggest that you not put down those of us who choose to use trainers-for whatever our personal reason-since you have never even owned a horse. It can be really annoying, which is why, at least in my case, I am getting a bit testy.
> 
> Competitions are simply a way of judging our progress against others who do the same thing. You sound like you are young. You may well change your opinion on many things in life, and may even choose to compete at some point. Never say never.


I guess I didn't make it clear enough. I'm not putting anyone down. If I didn't think people should send their horses to trainers instead of joining in on the training, I wouldn't have asked why people do it. I'm interested to know people's reasons and I learned a lot from this thread. My family has always trained horses themselves and shown and competed horses and I've done the same thing with horses that I've worked with. I always assumed that people who showed their horses were showing off the training that they've done. It just seemed weird to me that someone would send their horse off to someone else to get trained, it's as awkward to me as sending off a blank canvas to a professional painter to get painted, and then displaying it as something you painted. Now I understand a lot more, not everyone views horses as projects. They are interested in the performance aspect of horses and whether or not they trained them, the horse is still theirs.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I guess I didn't make it clear enough. I'm not putting anyone down. If I didn't think people should send their horses to trainers instead of joining in on the training, I wouldn't have asked why people do it. I'm interested to know people's reasons and I learned a lot from this thread. My family has always trained horses themselves and shown and competed horses and I've done the same thing with horses that I've worked with. I always assumed that people who showed their horses were showing off the training that they've done. It just seemed weird to me that someone would send their horse off to someone else to get trained, it's as awkward to me as sending off a blank canvas to a professional painter to get painted, and then displaying it as something you painted. Now I understand a lot more, not everyone views horses as projects. They are interested in the performance aspect of horses and whether or not they trained them, the horse is still theirs.


So you and your family can train EVERY discipline to a level where it is competitive and would NEVER see a reason to send a horse to a trainer? Hmmm. 

Just because my horse was primarily trained by a trainer does NOT mean that when I show him I am not showing off what he and I have accomplished and can do together. Horses are very different for the trainer than the owner n some cases and it still takes a lot of work to be competitive. In NO way do I feel that sending my guy to the trainer minimizes my accomplishments with him when I show him. My ride is still MY ride and not the trainers. I can still rock it or totally bomb and it has little to do with him, and everything to do with how well I communicate with my horse. The horse knows it-but I still have to make him do it 100%, which is not as easy as it sounds all the time.

My horse will also be going back to another trainer next month for a month. Why? Because I do not have the time or indoor arena to ride him daily to leg him up for the season. I will ride him some, but not 6 days a week that he needs to be conditioned.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Your intention may not be to put people down, OP, however your posts (in my opinion) do come across as a bit 'condescending' towards those who do not choose to do things your way. Something to keep in mind before getting defensive.

I don't believe 'bond' is something you should even consider when you send your horse off to training. Bond is not achieved through a few months of training, my coach was commenting yesterday that it takes years to achieve a trusting bond with a horse, and after over a year of competing with Jackson we're finally starting to 'click' on course, which definitely translates over into everyday riding / interaction. Do I think that would have been sacrificed had I chosen to send him to training? No. If I could have afforded training I probably would have taken the opportunity, because I didn't have time to ride every day so the process of getting to where we are was a slow one. Now that we are working consistently together it was a rewarding process, but there were lots of speedbumps and injuries that could have been avoided. Had I gotten a trainer I don't believe my bond would be ANY different.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

soenjer55 said:


> I drove my mom crazy because I refused to let her send my young horse off to a trainer to "get his training out of the way." For me, the only reason to buy a young, untrained horse is so that I can do the training. Therefore, I would settle for no less than being right there at the lessons, and I was blessed with the perfect situation, exactly what I wanted, which was basically to be trained to train my horse. That's how I like it. I won't condemn someone who sends their horse off, there's no reason to condemn them and I admire those who can decide when they need to step down and let a more experienced person take the wheel, but I personally would not do it unless I could at least go and watch them work with my horse.
> I would never, ever send my horse somewhere without going to meet the trainer, seeing them work, seeing what they turn out and hearing opinions on them and their facilities. Plus, I would require them to be open to me visiting and hopefully allowing me to interact. I also feel that whoever trains a horse leaves something with them, and I also want to understand the training so that it's not wasted when I get them back. I wouldn't want to change things even minutely with a horse that literally just learned those things.
> My 14 year old sister just recently tried to take charge and send her 3 year old off to training (I don't know why my mom let this happen) and, after telling me that I was stupid and that she "knows how to do research" (which apparently consists of looking at a website, not talking to the trainer, asking questions, going to the facilities, etc like I told her to) we sent her off to a woman who told us that the horse was a menace, who bit, kicked, and was so dangerous that we should just send her to auction and get rid of her because "she would kill one of us kids" if we took her back. She then proceeded to let her student sit on the head of the horse (that she was trying to make us buy to replace our "witch," who was supposed to be 4 but had a body more like a newly turned 2 year old), and make the horse lift her up to slide onto her back. The first time she tried, the horse lifted her head when she swung her leg and the girl started yanking on her mouth and aggressively backing her up like she had done something much worse than not want to lift a 90 lb person by a neck that looked too weak to hold her own head up.
> Afterwards, while we sat listening to this woman tell us that horses are stupid livestock and should be treated as such and how fantastic she is and how qualified etc. etc., the horse, who was tied next to us, pawed and tried to scratch her head. The lady then looked at us and said, "uh oh, now she's going to get another hour tied up, so she learns to behave herself at the post."
> ...


This is NOT A TRAINER!

This is a fool that saw some clinics, learned nothing from them and is using the word trainer. But she is an idiot and should be charged with same.

Trainer of horses and this person using that term should be an offense that is punishable by death.


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## EquestrianCowgirl4 (Jan 9, 2012)

I don't agree with it at all.. Whats the point of even buying one if your not going to do anything with it. You basically buying a horse just to win. Plus you won't even bond with it. Me and my horse bonded the most during training! 
I also know of many people who did and One of there horses were not treated well at all! She came back with many scratches and there was loss of hair where the halter was cuz they never took it off and the had a chain on WAY to tight and there wasn't any hair around that area either. Another horse came back worse. 
I could go on and on but I will just say you never know what they could be doing when your not there. Or what they could be lying about. 
I don't mind if you would go out there everyday or once and a wile to see how and what the trainers doing thats ok.

My trainer is also a horse trainer but what i like about him is he has the owners to come out every week or so to see what he did and so they can work with the horse too... Don't just send it for a couple monthes then bring him back.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

For those that compete at the uppermost levels of their discipline, a trainer is very necessary to keep a horse that is competitive at those levels.

That means work by a professional horseman/woman that can bring horse along, that can feel what is going on, and that can get horse to those levels. Very few backyard owners can do that.

And in cases of some breeds, having a professional stable, means in addition to the trainer, you have grooms too, such as a Saddlebred barn, so that your horse is ready to hit that ring, and has been cared for properly. 20+ feet tails are not for the light hearted to care for.

And those barns also have access to the farriers needed to keep horses shod, and the vets that have the latest in training too. As well as the rigs to transport those horses to venues.

And I find it odd, that if your family has had so many horses and trained so many, that you have never had your own horse? Nor seem to know much about horse training for that matter.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

It is up to the owner to look at references and check in on your animal. Not all trainers a good trainers, it is up to you to ensure you are sending your animal somewhere safe. I suggest you read the posts in this thread again, nobody is advocating spending no time with their horses. Many want a horse that they are able to rise and enjoy, many have jobs and families and do not have time to train their own animal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

alexischristina said:


> many have jobs and families and do not have time to train their own animal.


Or the knowledge.

I'd rather work with a 'wild' critter than a spoiled pasture puff.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I bought Ben knowing he was 9 and basically unbroken, and I bought a nice horse for a lower price because of that.

I sent him out for 60 days to a local guy who I know will start a horse by getting on and riding him out, letting him see and experience stuff. At the end of 60 days I had a nice soft faced forward going horse. After a couple of weeks on my own he was going sour, due to my inexperience. I am now working with a trainer who is helping both of us, but as she says her mouth can't keep up with everything that you need to do when you need to do it.

I am seriously considering putting Ben to her to put another 30 days on, while still riding him in lessons with her, I won't consider our bond to be any less, because we still have to be able to dance together to do well in Dressage, and that is all about ongoing subtle communications between horse and rider.


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I don't simply count on the end result like winning dressage shows or reining competitions only because I don't see that as the main success of the horse. I see the horse's understanding and enjoyment as enough of a success. Winning the competitions is a success more for the rider because winning is only meaningful to the human (unless your racing, then it's a win for everyone). I guess I'm just a lot more interested in the horse, not so much the competitions just because I've never ridden or trained horses for those purposes.


I don't know anyone who measures their success solely by competitions. I certainly don't and neither do the top level riders I know. The ability to do a very good dressage test with your horse isn't just about numbers on a piece of paper, but the quality of your riding and the skill of the horse combining into one total picture. I ride at a barn with nearly all upper level riders and horses who have a deep passion for our sport and train 4-6 times per week under professional trainers. Only about half of them compete and most see competition as a way to test their progress rather than a way to win against everyone else. And thank god for that because it would be very depressing to ride only for the wins! There are astoundingly talented international level competitors who go years without winning a thing and I can't imagine keeping up a gruelling training schedule for so few rewards. My trainer loves competing, but she loves it because it is her chance to show off all her hard work, to show off her smart, beautiful horses, and test them to see how far they have come. It's not "you better get a 70 or it's off to the glue factory with you!" She wants to be the best she can be in the sport and she wants the same for her horses and for her competing is a part of that process - it gives her feedback.

Wanting your horse to be very good at something, to be your partner in athletic pursuits, to master a sport together, is very exciting and can very much be a pursuit of love. You should see my friend, a 60 year old woman, laugh while riding the one tempis our trainer taught her horse - the joy over seeing her horse learn and being able to experience those movements with her partner have nothing to do with scores. Her horse is now GP level and she will never show him but she and her horse will experience the joy of that training every day. I feel the same way when my horse learns new things and advances in the levels, whether I am the one riding him or not. It is so fun to watch him grow and develop and when our training comes together into one lovely picture it is such an amazing feeling.

As someone else pointed out, there are people who don't even ride themselves and just love seeing their horses advance with someone else. I know a few women who own FEI horses they cannot ride due to ability or age but they get up at 4am to travel with their horses to shows and they walk them for hours if they're colicking and they hold them when they are put down. They feel honoured to be able to financially support talented horses to the top of the sport and bring such horses to talented riders who would not be able to afford them and they love those horses with their whole hearts.

There are horses who seem to love to work. There are horses who seem to love to compete. But we can never know for sure and ultimately all riding is about us - it is not an altruistic pursuit, it is about our pleasure, whether that is dressage or trail riding.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> because we still have to be able to dance together to do well in Dressage, and that is all about ongoing subtle communications between horse and rider.


And you will be posting video of this when it happens, right??? I wanna seeeeeeeeeeeeee. I love watching Dressage. It is so beautiful.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Upper levels are beautiful. Lower levels are like watching paint dry. :wink:


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> Upper levels are beautiful. Lower levels are like watching paint dry. :wink:


Bah ha ha ha! Point taken! :lol:


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## LynnF (Jun 1, 2011)

I didn't read through all of the responses, but here is what I have to say.
People send their horses to trainers for lots of different reasons. Everybody has different lifestyles, riding/training abilities and what is right for one will not necessarily work for another. 
I don't think there is anything wrong with sending a horse to a trainer, I have worked with lots of trainers over the years and had lots of work done on my horses as I learned and progressed in my training. I start and train my own horses for the most part now but I would not hesitate to call a trainer if I ran into a problem that I could not solve. 
Saying that horses are like your children and you would not send them off to bond with somebody else doesn't really make sense to me. When/if you have children will you not send them to school to learn and grow with a teacher. Just because your child goes to school does that mean they don't love/trust/bond with you as much?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Upper levels are beautiful. Lower levels are like watching paint dry. :wink:


That all depends how horribly wrong it goes:wink:


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Laffeetaffee said:


> .
> It just wouldn't sit well with me to decide that I want to own and take care of a horse and then just send him off to someone else while they do all the leadership-building and bonding and teaching. As a horse owner I would want to do the majority of the training since I took him in and promised that I would take care of him. If I couldn't do it, then I would make sure that I learned to, even if I had to go through as rigorous training as my horse in order to understand.


'Sitting well' is often a luxury that one is eventually forced to let go of, or sink... Of course I'd love to spend all day every day immersed in anything horse, don't get me wrong. However, as I have wound my way down my life path, I have encountered other elements that have been a joy to add to my life. For example, I never thought I'd meet someone I wanted to marry, much less have A child with. I accepted that I could not be happy with the status quo relationship and was content with my version of life. Cue well repair man and resulting mini repair man. I couldn't be happier, though to achieve one version I had to let go of another. 

5 months after our son was born, he was diagnosed with a rare cancer. The Living Hell yhat followed really refinend my 
Priorities and perspective.

In order to enjoy ALL the gorgeous elements of my life, I must loosen my hold on ONE.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

Palomine said:


> This is NOT A TRAINER!
> 
> This is a fool that saw some clinics, learned nothing from them and is using the word trainer. But she is an idiot and should be charged with same.
> 
> Trainer of horses and this person using that term should be an offense that is punishable by death.


I dunno, she spent quite some time telling us about how she's one of only a few people with actual qualifications in the area... :lol:
The next morning when we went to rescue our horse, she changed it around and started telling us (after ranting about how what we did to this horse was unfixable, etc. the other day) that she COULD train this horse, but giving her to my inexperienced sister would just put her back into the same position again, which is true. Interestingly enough, she fixed the horse's trailer loading problem, Belle walked right in like she'd done it all her life... I'm still very confused by the entire situation. It's like she had the fundamentals, and definitely had experience, but it was all distorted to an extreme with her.
Regardless, we won't be sending her any business. I saw and heard enough that first day, and it was just _inexcusable_. The fact that she can flip around like that is enough to make me not want to go back, she's not trustworthy... add to that everything else and I'll be keeping some distance.


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Just want to say that I don't consider the OP condescending at all. I took this to simply be a lively discussion on a great topic. But, some faceless person on the other side of my screen has very little clout when it comes to offending me, lol. Very sensitive bunch! Good horse people usually are!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xxdanioo (Jan 17, 2012)

I sent my horse away for two months to be trained. We had already developed out relationship, I had done all the ground work on him, and my cousin started him under saddle. I went to visit a few times on weekends while he was away, and he was the same horse when he came home as I had sent away- only smarter. He learned more than I could have taught him, and my cousin did not have time to put that kind of work on him. 

I am now working with my coach to learn on him. I'm learning to trust him under saddle the way I do on the ground, and we are learning what works for each other. I wouldn't hesitate to have someone start another horse for me. When out next horse is ready to break its just will be a matter of what I am comfortable with in a couple years, and if I think I'm ready to fully train a green horse under saddle.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

hemms said:


> Just want to say that I don't consider the OP condescending at all. I took this to simply be a lively discussion on a great topic. But, some faceless person on the other side of my screen has very little clout when it comes to offending me, lol. Very sensitive bunch! Good horse people usually are!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think some people are just looking for a fight. I've posted on enough forums asking questions just to learn different opinions and methods, and there will always be people who want to crucify one person or another, I just weed through it and find the information I'm looking for and ignore the hate. I didn't mean to sound condescending at all, that was the least of my intentions, I guess	I came off a little strong when I was explaining my side of the argument because I just wanted people to understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I love my kids and I bonded with them, but still sent them to school, even sent one away to school because it was best for him. Horses are the same, if they need specialists they get them, vet, farrier, trainer, it's all the same.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

I have clients that do both. I have clients that want to watch every session, and that's cool with me. Right now I have a client that found me online and specifically wants ME to train her horses. She lives over an hour from me, so she sent them to me.

So that's my #3. The owner wants a specific trainer and that trainer is too far away to visit every day.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I had a QH that I sent to a trainer. She had a nasty bucking issue that she came with when I bought her and the trainer I was working with said "I CAN fix this but I don't WANT to". So she helped me find a good trainer who was more than happy to work with her.

Could I have found a trainer that could have worked me and her through it? Sure... but I would most likely have been on a first name basis at the ER within a week (she'd already broken my wrist) whereas the trainer I sent her to said at one point she had him "looking for a nice soft spot to land" but he never actually came off because riding out a bucking horse is what HE is good at! 

Other than her bucking issues, she was a calm, quiet deadhead of a horse. I didn't need to learn anything new to ride her properly... I just needed her to quit acting like a rodeo bronc every time I asked for a canter! Trainer had a big ol' list of things and laughed because I was like nope, nope, nope, nope, doesn't do that , or that, ties just fine, perfect ground manners, no aggression with food, not spooky, blankets fine, clips fine, loves the Vet and Farrier.... she just freakin BUCKS!


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

sillyhorses said:


> If I sent my horse to training, I'd be going, too (which is what I've done in the past). What is the point of sending my horse for training, if I'm not learning how to properly utilize that training?



Thats exactly what I did with Hunter.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

Hmm. Interesting assumptions OP. 

No, in no way does someone sending a horse off to a trainer indicate that they aren't skilled in horses or advanced riders nor does it indicate that they are unwilling to take the time! Right now, I train horses. I train both outside horses and go to sales looking for nice project horses. In 25 years I can say to you with 100% certainty that I am without a doubt not going to be breaking in youngsters, training problem children and other wise dealing with the more dangerous end of things. I WILL hand my young horses (that is, if I haven't switched over to driving Miniature Horses in my older age... :lol to someone who is less likely to break in half. I WILL gladly pay someone at that point in my life. That will not make me less experienced than I am right now. In fact, I'll be more experienced than the person that I pay to ride my youngster :lol:

Likewise I may be able to train many horses to trail ride safely & I may be blessed with the gift of salving "problem horses" but I am not in the least bit qualified to train you an eventing horse. No. If I decided to start jumping with one of my horses I would send him/her to a trainer and then go with my horse to a trainer to learn together. That doesn't make me un-willing to take the time, that makes me honest regarding my skill level and my ability to train a horse for an event that I have never competed in. On the other hand, many finishing trainers do not want to be bothered with the risk that starting a horse may present. That does not make them any more or less experienced. Everyone is different and everyone has the ability to train different things.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I had trainers train my horses, because they could do it right and I could not. I have no sympathy for those who insist on training horses themselves when they don't know enough to do so. That is an awesome way to ruin a horse!

I also have had it up to the eyebrows with the idea I need to 'bond' with my horse. Wanna bond? Buy a dog!

I have an Arabian mare who exemplifies most of the stereotypes of an Arabian mare. And between bad weather, illness, deciding to go back to school, etc, I've only been on her back 2 times in the last 3 months. When I walked into the corral yesterday with a halter on my shoulder, she made a beeline across the corral, stuck her face in the halter and made it clear she was ready to go. Surprisingly, she was at about 98% of where she was on 15 Dec. She got very excited about cantering, but when I asked for a stop from a canter, I nearly ended up on her neck...probably the fastest stop I've seen her make. Feet squared up, too.

After the ride, I started talking to her as is my custom, and she twisted her head around so her ear was a few inches from my mouth. So I talked softly into her ear for a couple minutes, then she straightened out and made it clear social time was over. And yes, she looked around to see if anyone had seen her momentary weakness...

We arguably have a pretty good 'bond'. But whatever we've got has come from 4 years of riding, and it will NOT prevent her from spooking, doing The OMG Crouch, or trying to race down a wash in panic. She is what she is, and she isn't a dog. She doesn't want pets. She doesn't want hugs and kisses. Once in a while, she'll ask for a butt rub - actually, the area on either side of the spine just behind the hip.

In 4+ years of riding, I've never had any doubt that she is an opinionated gal, and is her own being. I guess I'm used to the idea that I will never ride her calmly down the trail with her content to just amble along. She is what she is, and what she is is NOT my dogs, my kids or my wife. If I want adoration, my dogs will give it. Conversation? My wife will give that, minus any trace of adoration! Best friend? That would be my wife, again.

Bonding involves time and miles. Wanna know if you're going to bond with your horse? Ride her for 2-3 years, and find out.

A trainer doesn't steal your horse's soul. No trainer can or will prevent you from bonding with a horse. If anything, a good trainer will give your horse the tools to understand humans well enough for some bond to form - but real bonds form with lots of miles, or maybe never at all. Lots of horses will never be snuggy-bear. Nor should they. To expect otherwise is to disrespect what a horse really is. People need to learn to appreciate horses for what they are, and not for what they were never meant to be.

I'm a huge fan of professional trainers. I cannot imagine worrying that the horse is going to bond with the trainer and never love me. In her own way, Mia is a very sweet girl...but she's my horse, not the love of my life!


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## Nine (May 25, 2008)

Wow. I can't believe you just made that flat judgement to people you don't know, Laffeetaffee. That was rather unkind and thoughtless. I sent my horse to a trainer for a month, to be sure I didn't miss anything when I trained him. After all, I'm not a "trainer". And then I have him at another trainer now, as I know how to drive, but don't know how to train a driving horse. Big difference. I want a safe horse that I can drive down the road with family and friends. I wouldn't want to be responsible for creating a wreck because I just went and tried to train a cart horse when I haven't a clue how to start. I'd be foolish and dangerous to try training him myself. It doesn't mean that I don't care about him. That's why I get references, drop in unexpectedly at the trainers and watch the trainer work, before bringing my horse to him.
I think you might step back on your opinion of people who take their horses to trainers. Who trained your horse? How many horses have you trained? How many times have you been hurt by a horse you trained, or how many of the horses you trained hurt others? Glad you're not my neighbor. What else do you judge people harshly on? Yikes.


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## Nine (May 25, 2008)

Oh, and Teddy will come at a canter to me from the pasture when I call; leave his hay (though not any grain) to come see me and I know I can trust him to trust me. I don't own his soul, just his heart. And he has mine. He doesn't own my soul, the Good Lord does. Teddy respects the trainer, and appreciates the trainer's fair, thoughtful approach. I am still floored from your first post. I feel sorry if those are your real feelings.


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## KountryPrincess (Oct 23, 2012)

It "rips you up"? "Someone else's soul"? Really, is there not something more important to be so dramatically worried about?

I recently promoted a senate bill that would stop the gassing of our shelter animals. I have seen video of it and I still hear their whines and howls and cries, I still hear them struggling, trying desperarely to scratch their way out of the gas chamber. For minutes this goes on until they die. It is practiced in 39 states. Currently. Every day. 

That rips *me*up. 

If someone wants their horse to progress to a level of training that they are unable to teach them as clearly and quickly as a trainer, why on earth do you care?

If anyone else is "ripped up" over the issue I mentioned, the proposal is called "Daniel's law" and would outlaw inhumane euthanasia in all 50 states.

I know I went OT. I think this thread is so silly I wanted there to be an issue that really affects animals to be mentioned. It helps *my* soul to share it.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

We purchased a kid friendly mare who was broke to ride and had mostly done trail rides, play days, and parades. Her owner had lost interest in riding, so we were the lucky people given first option to buy her.

We agreed to a 9-month lease to see if this mare and my 9 year old daughter would "click". Acey is not easy to ride. She doesn't buck, bite or kick, but she does expect her rider to give her clear signals she understands. It became apparent that while my daughter loved this horse and this horse was fond of my daughter... The horse needed more training to become the all-round horse my daughter needs. So we purchased the horse (with our coach's blessing) and set about training both horse and rider.

Our riding coach also trains horses. So, we sent Acey to her barn for a week to work on showmanship and halter (a class rhey were having trouble with). During that week, we visited, but did not work with her ourselves. At the end of the week, we brought her home and our trainer showed us what to do.

Since then, our trainer comes out and rides our horse regularly when we are not there. She wants to fine tune Acey's buttons and teach Acey what is expected of her before she shows my daughter what to do. 

It is pure foolishness to expect a green rider (and her Mom) to know how to train a horse. No matter how much reading I do, how many videos I watch, we could really screw up and create a bigger problem. So, we work with a trainer who teaches the horse and then teaches us. 

We show, not to win (although its nice when we do), but to allow my daughter and Acey to test their training. If they have a ride where they show improvement from their last show, even if they place dead last, we are thrilled. I consider it periodic testing to help them improve (and give Kitten goals to achieve in her riding).

I don't take lessons myself, but during my daughter's lessons, her coach expects me to pay attention so I can help my daughter when we are practicing on non lesson days. We have homework every week and we are very diligent in doing our "horsework".

This is what works for us. I feel no shame in not being able to train a horse. It has not harmed the bond between my daughter and Acey, if anything, it has strengthened their communication because they now both speak the same language.

I do think its the sign of a good trainer if they insist the rider take lessons once the horse is trained...otherwise how will you know the "buttons"? I would have never guessed that putting your feet slightly forward, pressing in and rolling up your heels would signal the horse to drop her head. It may not be the signal for other horses, but that's how our trainer trains her horses.

People should do their research, investigate, and then find what works for their life style and specific needs. There is no one "right" way to train a horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Ummm, I can think of reasons to send a horse to a trainer! Flat out, even if I had the skill to do it, (I DON'T, and I'll say it!!!), I'm too **** heavy to be saddle training a shetland pony xD

I'd love to send her off to a nice, tiny boned, skinny, UNDERSTANDING trainer and get her set to ride! And I see NOT ONE SINGLE OUNCE of shame in that!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Sometimes, believe it or not, LOVING your horse is realizing that they are better off with someone besides you training them, so that you don't ruin your already-existing bond with me. Sometimes loving your horse is knowing when to say 'I dont know' and letting someone else step in to help you. I should know.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

I haven't read this whole thing, just the first few pages, so excuse my .02 cents 

I have never had the opportunity to send a horse out to training. Ever since my first horse, I have always had horses that came already trained to my level at that time. I learned and grew on them. Then I got the next horse who was a little bit more difficult, then the next.

I have trainers in my life, but they all believe I must learn through doing; which could be considered lessons, clinics, etc. I made mistakes on my horses, and then I fixed them myself once I learned more competency. It was frustrating and difficult at time, but now when the same situation comes up, I can correct it faster and better than the last time.

When I ask for help from trainers, they give me advice and then encourage me to do it myself. As long as I am not in a potentially dangerous situation, I can get through it and learn from it myself. And since I have done that from a very young age, I can readily problem solve for myself.

I still have fears and hang-ups, like trailer loading and some of the training of my yearling. If I ask one of my trainers to do it for me, they refuse. I make mistakes, and then fix my problems. The next mistake is not as big, until I don't make it at all.

I even asked my trainer to break my horse when she's old enough, and they have still refused. 

And, on the flipside, I have worked under the table for a few big name trainers in the stock horse world. It's a very different world of "sending to the trainers" for show horses. Especially when owners don't even live in the same state as their horses in training. There is so much shady stuff that goes on when you are a customer, that your horse is not really personally invested in the trainer as far as making it win a class goes. You have to be really careful. I avoid BNTs like the plague. If I absolutely had to send my horse to someone, I would choose a small trainer with good moral standing and a few loyal clientele. Bigger isn't always better.

However, I do express some opposition to when a person buys a horse beyond their means in hopes of turning it into some grand competition animal; but in reality is buying their trainer a horse to show. I would rather buy a horse at my level and work it up to the best of my ability.


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

Taking not really sending my horse to a trainer to get started under saddle. I'll be taking him for a month and a half full board at a barn about 20 minute drive from my house. I will be watching his training sessions and the trainer really likes people to be involved in the training. At the beginning he just works with the horse and finds the "holes" in his training that need fixed and worked on. The idea is that he will do some rides and work with the horse and once he feels that the horse is ready I will be riding and he will be instructing me. I want to be involved as much as possible, but at the same time my I want him to have some good, solid training from a professional that I trust and respect. I don't know if I will keep Mocha or not, but if I do sell him I would like to say he has a good foundation.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

Because someone decided to dig up this thread without reading the whole thing, and people assume I'm a delusional anthropomorphizing nut, I'll repost what I've already posted on this thread to make it clear:

"I don't know why everyone is getting so upset, this is a whole new learning experience for me since I've never had a trainer and I didn't realize how different people view horses and training. I can understand a lot of trainers wouldn't want the owner to be around because the reason they sent the horse in for training is to train the horse... I personally would want to be trained how to train not just because I want to gain a deeper understanding, but because I believe that we are constantly training a horse when we work with it and I want to combine good riding with training. I owe it to the horse to know how he learned a certain behavior and to make sure when I'm working with him that I revert back to that training if I need to in order to keep him working at his best. That's just how I feel, I see horses as projects that reflect who I am, I don't simply count on the end result like winning dressage shows or reining competitions only because I don't see that as the main success of the horse. I see the horse's understanding and enjoyment as enough of a success. Winning the competitions is a success more for the rider because winning is only meaningful to the human (unless your racing, then it's a win for everyone). I guess I'm just a lot more interested in the horse, not so much the competitions just because I've never ridden or trained horses for those purposes.

I just want people to be clear, I'm not saying people shouldn't send their horses to get trained, I think it's an awesome way to have the horse learn exactly what they need to know for each discipline. I've just grown up with a different idea about how to own and work with horses and I didn't realize how differently people view their horses and their training."

Please read before assuming.


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

And to add to the whole bonding argument:

No I do NOT assume that a trainer is going to steal the owner's soul if they train the owner's horse. I have no idea where people got that idea, but that is just plain ridiculous. I believe a horse is a _reflection_ of the owner's soul. To quote Buck Brannaman: _Your horse is a mirror to your soul, and sometimes you may not like what you see. Sometimes, you will. _Anything you own and put a lot of time in is a reflection of you, that includes your room, your car, your clothes, everything. 

You're also misinterpreting what I mean by "bond." I do not mean being able to pet your horse and hang out with your horse and get it to like you. I mean the deep down bond that comes from months and months of interaction. You do not instantly bond with a person you just meet, it takes a while to figure out that person's quirks and habits, and that's what creates the bond. If you send your horse to a trainer, you can bond with the horse very easily and make it a stronger bond than any. But I don't believe you can make that bond the second you get your horse back, the horse has been someone else's project and is reflecting someone else. You can see this in the little quirks the horse shows such as responding to a flick of your finger or a glance, based on how the trainer has been acting around the horse and the horse picked up on it. After a while, the horse will learn your quirks and will be able to read you like an open book, but it takes a while.

Bonding comes from being able to read your horse and your horse being able to read you, not lovey happy friendship. It is unique, and takes a long time to develop.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

lafeetafee, i think you are incredibly niave.

There are thousands of reasons to send a horse to a trainer. Not everyone has the time, knowlege or inclination to break a young horse. Infact I personaly think the majority of those that choose not to send to a proffessional for breaking are idiots in the extreme. There are few people who can properly break and train a young/inexperianced horse, everyone else just attempts it and normaly gets it wrong ending up with spoilt horses, horses with holes in thier education and riders getting injured.

I can train a nice willing horse no problem, but difficult ones and ones with issues I send away to a proffessional who gives that horse THE best start in life possible.

Just like I do know the inner workings of an engine, but you bet I'm going to send it to a mechanic if somethng goes wrong as they will fix it to a better standard then I ever coul, in a quicker time and with less likelyhood of something else going wrong.

I also work 40 hours a week to pay for my horses, I cannot afford to take the falls and have time off work due to injury. At the grand old age of 27 I am a physical wreck due to riding and training problem horses and I no longer bounce as well as I used to. 

Finaly I dont get any enjoyment out of that side of the training. I prefer to do the bit once you are onboard and going! its a lot less dangerous and a lot more fun as you progress faster.

Its never ever affected my "bond" with a horse. The bond comes after the initial training, infact I'm willing to believe that my current horse HATED the lady who broke him. I dont care if he likes her or not just that he learns correctly. The Bond has come through regular ground handling, me riding into scarey situations and him having to trust me, cuddles afterwards and generlay me being a leader to the horses. Real life is not a movie, the mythical "black stallion" bond does not exist.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Laffee, 

If you had started la thread to discuss all the various reasons people sent horses to trainers, and used the responses to draw some conclusions, no one would be accusing you of being condescending and no one would be "upset."

Instead, you STARTED with your conclusions -



> 1. That the owner isn't skilled enough to be able to train the horse these things by themselves, so they are probably not very advanced riders or interested in understanding the horse's psychology. 2. The owner is not willing to take the training with the horse, and the owner cannot understand where certain problems arose in the first place to cause such bucking/rearing etc. Or if it was competition training, the horse has been programmed to respond like a machine, and the owner will have no other choice but to treat it as such because they have not developed that "feel" with their horse since it has been gone.


Statements such as this immediately challenge the readers to defend their own use of a trainer. When later on in thread your limited experience is revealed, then people who have responded not only are defensive, but now they fell they've been set up as well.

I am perfectly willing to believe you wanted to have a conversation and where genuinely interested in hearing about other people's rationale and experiences. However, I really hope you understand how you set yourself up for an adversarial conversation instead.

Imagine how this thread would have played out if you hadn't stated your conclusions first but just solicited a lot of input on the subject and then asked a lot of follow up questions.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I don't know why everyone is getting so upset, this is a whole new learning experience for me since I've never had a trainer and I didn't realize how different people view horses and training.........
> 
> "Winning the competitions is a success more for the rider because winning is only meaningful to the human (unless your racing, then it's a win for everyone). I guess I'm just a lot more interested in the horse, not so much the competitions just because I've never ridden or trained horses for those purposes.


"

I've had show horses that were on my string, that knew very well when they won their classes, and they had as much pride in it as their owners. Also seen horses who knew they were outclassed, so to speak, who were sulled up about it somewhat.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Endiku said:


> Sometimes, believe it or not, LOVING your horse is realizing that they are better off with someone besides you training them, so that you don't ruin your already-existing bond with me. Sometimes loving your horse is knowing when to say 'I dont know' and letting someone else step in to help you. I should know.


 
 already-existing bond with *them* not me. LOL. I really don't care if you have a bond with me or not! xD


For the record though, I DIDN'T send my horse to a trainer when I should have, dispite being inexperienced, and I nearly ruined her. She has a VERY complex personality type that has made her difficult to work with for even experienced trainers, and me trying to train her myself was simply foolish.

But that doesn't mean I don't know her 'quirks' and her 'personality'. Its actually BECAUSE I know her personality and the way she works that I realize that my limited knowledge does not suffice to train her in a safe and nurturing way. For that reason, I let a trainer work 1 on 1 with her for about a month, then I started taking lessons WITH her, after the 'dangerous' part had been done. I assure you I still have a much stronger bond with my horse than my trainer does, and I always will. She's a one person type of horse, and the one month of a trainer is nothing in comparison to the almost five years I've had with her


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't agree with your logic (ie. being unable to train your horse makes you unqualified for horse ownership).

If I did, then being unable to teach yourself or your children to read condemns you and/or them to a life of illiteracy. Being unable to repair a car, fully, disqualifies you from owning one. What about health care? lol

People are gifted in different ways. Some people teach better (train) and others, perhaps, present better (show), still others can get the best from themselves and a horse as part of a team (working or in sport events).

With regard to Mr. Brannaman's remark about a horse reflecting it's owner/rider: I can confidently say that he uses that to get people to slow down and look at their part in the partnership between themselves and their horse. He is encouraging consistency on the human's part, on which horses thrive for a foundation. To do the best they can in being an optimal partner in the horse/rider relationship. 

I will confidently say that Mr. Brannaman is not suggesting that if your horse is handled by others it will somehow not perform well for you. Nor is he suggesting that utilizing a trainer is somehow cheating in the training process.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Laffeetaffee said:


> The owner is not willing to take the training with the horse, and the owner cannot understand where certain problems arose in the first place to cause such bucking/rearing etc. Or if it was competition training, the horse has been programmed to respond like a machine, and the owner will have no other choice but to treat it as such because they have not developed that "feel" with their horse since it has been gone.


I think that the owner should learn why the horse is doing something and try to fix it. There is only a few things - one of them is that you are either asking the question wrong or you are asking the wrong question. The horse may not understand. So I believe it's the owners job to figure this out on their own, rather than send their horse off to a trainer and have it come back without your knowledge on how to prevent it from happening again and if it does happen again, they need to know how to fix it. In my opinion, it just isn't a good source. The best source is yourself. YOU need to learn what the problem is and fix it yourself. Maybe look up some videos you like - like on Buck Brannaman. I like Buck the best and I follow some of his techniques.





> Buck Brannaman said that your horse is a reflection of your soul. If you are an insecure, hectic person, your horse will reflect it. If you are mentally balanced and in control, then your horse will reflect that. But when you send your horse off to a trainer for months at a time and turn it into the horse you want, then you're receiving someone else's soul. You're receiving a horse who has become in-tune to someone else, and it's a bit like wearing someone else's shoes.


I do believe the horse is a reflection of your soul. How you have treated it and how you have taught it and cared for the horse will show. If he is badly trained by you, it shows. You can sometimes tell when a horse knows everything and the rider doesn't. Like I have heard of when someone sent their horse to a trainer with the show course so the horse will know exactly how to do it. The rider doesn't know anything because He wasn't there when it was trained, he doesn't know very much about horses because he let the trainer do it all.(This doesn't go for everyone, of course.) Well, the judges changed the course and the girl got in and the horse was going through the original course. She didn't know how to fix it or anything. That was showing how inexperienced she was and that the horse really and truly wasn't hers. (with training and knowledge and such.)


My opinion on trainers is, just don't do it. You aren't always there to learn what is going on or how to signal the horse correctly. Even if the trainer told you how to do it, you would need that trainer there to show you and walk you through it. So me, I just think it's best to wokr your own horse. It's really not all that hard. I mean yes it is, but it's not like it's impossible, because 99% of the time it's not.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Or if it was competition training, the horse has been programmed to respond like a machine, and the owner will have no other choice but to treat it as such because they have not developed that "feel" with their horse since it has been gone. 

How many competition horses have you ridden? Any? You show just how little you really know about any aspect of training a show horse by this statement right here.

While there are some push button horses, those are few and far between. And even those are not "machines".

You have all sorts of opinions on things you know nothing about from any aspect, are dismissive of those who have given you the reasons that people utilize a trainer, whether it be for short term or long term.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

amberly said:


> I think that the owner should learn why the horse is doing something and try to fix it. There is only a few things - one of them is that you are either asking the question wrong or you are asking the wrong question. The horse may not understand. So I believe it's the owners job to figure this out on their own, rather than send their horse off to a trainer and have it come back without your knowledge on how to prevent it from happening again and if it does happen again, they need to know how to fix it. In my opinion, it just isn't a good source. The best source is yourself. YOU need to learn what the problem is and fix it yourself. Maybe look up some videos you like - like on Buck Brannaman. I like Buck the best and I follow some of his techniques.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And another country heard from.

Most people have no clue how to train a horse correctly, especially if that horse is going to be competed on. 

And how is it that in example you used of the person not knowing the course, first it was he, then she? And also have problem with you saying you heard that judge changed course? If this was H/J class, those jumps are set up in advance and the riders are out there walking that course, so they can stride it off.

And if trail class, they would also be set up in advance too, so all you have to do is go look at it.

And someone who is not experienced with horses, and by that I mean they either never have owned any, or only owned a couple and those are only ones they have worked with, will quickly find themselves in trouble with a hard headed horse, a cold backed one, or a mean one.

As well as your thoughts on how horse is reflection of you, if you train it. Horses trained by Shirley Roth, known for her cruelty and charged with same, are NOT nervous flinching wrecks, in other's hands. Work with one every day, calmest horse in barn. Not a thing to show what life at Shirley's was like.

Reflection of your soul? Oh, please.

Obvious how little you really know about any of this.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Palomine said:


> And another country heard from.
> 
> Most people have no clue how to train a horse correctly, especially if that horse is going to be competed on.
> 
> ...


 
Completely agree.
Reflection of your soul is amusing and sounds like another parelli-ism ready to ruin a horse.

My horses are certainly a reflection of me. My assistant says it best when she says 'yeah you worked with this one, he/she has 'your ground manners' " My soul- absolutely not that is completely garbage. My abilities and training style - definitely.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

amberly said:


> I think that the owner should learn why the horse is doing something and try to fix it...So I believe it's the owners job to figure this out on their own, rather than send their horse off to a trainer and have it come back without your knowledge on how to prevent it from happening again...
> 
> ...My opinion on trainers is, just don't do it...So me, I just think it's best to wokr your own horse. It's really not all that hard. I mean yes it is, but it's not like it's impossible, because 99% of the time it's not.


If my horses reflect my soul, why are they all so different? Why is the horse who was abused - holes in his skin on the sides from spurring - a calm horse who tries to take care of his rider? Why is the horse who was never abused an intense bundle of nerves who figures staying on her back is my problem?

Two of my three horses have had significant professional training. If it is wrong, why do they behave so much better now than before?


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Once when I was young, I took one of my mares to a trainer. I went regularly to check on her and she was only there a total of 3 weeks because I didn't like what happened. Looking back, it was sort of funny. I went in and checked her out, she was standing in the stall with a funny look on her face (yes, I probably read into what I see) anyway, she looked odd. The trainer came rushing out by me and said "Well, I learned one thing about that mare... You NEVER hit her with a whip" then he was called away. I could hear one of the stable hands chuckle and I asked him what happened. My mare dumped the guy big time and then went back after him. This mare was as sweet as could be BUT you had to treat her with respect. She took correction if it was fair but, I am guessing, she saw what he did as very unfair. As has been stated in other Saddlebred threads, this breed will NOT tolerate the abuse some of the other breeds do. They will either shut down or match the aggressive energy. Needless to say, we went home that day because there would be no paybacks to the horse. 
They (the barn staff) also had renamed her "May West" saying "When she is good, she is good but when she is bad, she is even better" that was a clue as to what they knew happened behind the scenes.

Needless to say, with age and experience, I got smarter and much much more careful in who I picked as a trainer. That horrid man had managed to show some very successful horses but... wasn't my cup of tea. I love animals and It might annoy some folks but I put their feelings above success any day of the week. If you have the right horse, you can have it all. Sometimes, it just takes a little longer to get there.

My advice to anyone looking to put a horse in with a trainer is, check them out very very carefully. Do not just go for convenience, cheap or quick fixes. Your horse with thank you for your efforts.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

My daughter does not train her own horse, but Acey and she are true reflections of each other. 

They both like to stand with one hip cocked to the side.

They both go gaga for watermelon, cantaloupe, and apples. 

They both have extremely sweet and giving natures, but when they are in a rare bad mood, it's best to just back off.

They are both intelligent with a stubborn streak. You can reason with them, but often need to give them time to work through a problem themselves. 

So, even though Acey is trained by a professional trainer, she is a true reflection of her 10 year old rider's soul. Not our trainer's soul. I see nothing of our coach in Acey, other than a more polished and responsive horse and rider team.

Horses all have their own personalities and needs. It is our responsibility as their stewards to make sure that our training, care, management, and riding style are complementary to the horse.

You cannot make blanket statements with nothing but esoteric mumbo jumbo to back it up and expect everyone to praise your brilliance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

Oh my god, you're all getting completely wrong ---

You know what. This is just another one of those threads where someone posts an opinion and people take it as fact and jump in for the slaughter. I've learned a lot about how different people view horses, that's exactly what I wanted to learn. What I've also learned about the horse community is that it is full of mistakes, but none are spoken of or heard of because people are so afraid of getting slaughtered for it. I made a mistake. I didn't realize that people thought of horses differently, and this is the result. But I'm glad I could offer up a thread for people to passionately share their opinions and experiences, there's a lot of good information getting tossed around and I'm still learning from it. I still don't know every exact reason why people send their horses to trainers, but I have learned a lot of reasons why and now I agree and accept it. In fact, I've been suggesting to people to send their horses to trainers if they have a horse that's too much to handle for them. That is exactly what I wanted from this thread, to gain a new perspective and opinion and accept the idea of sending a horse off to a trainer.

So I wash my hands of this, and you can continue tearing me apart, but I'm done.


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## plomme (Feb 7, 2013)

Laffeetaffee, I think it's great that you posted a question and actually wanted answers. Sometimes I think people forget that there are so many different ways to handle horsemanship and despite the fact that we all have horses we often exist in quite different worlds. It can be great fun to learn about what others do and why - I have no personal interest in Parelli, for example, but watching people who use that method to teach and have fun with their horses can be a pleasure. I have no interest in western riding and know almost nothing about it, but every time I do quick volte exercises I imagine the rush barrel racers must get and think I understand exactly why they do it. I would never train my own horse, but watching people do really good training it is incredible and reminds me that it is a great skill that deserves tremendous respect. I suspect that good training can indeed create a deep relationship with a horse and there must be a lot of joy to be found in that. In my case, my horse is my teacher, he knows a lot more than I do, and that is a wonderful relationship to have, but the inverse must be quite something too. Whatever we choose we can only do our best to treat our horses with love and respect and make decisions that will benefit them as much as and sometimes more than ourselves.

My horse is pretty happy that I don't attempt to train him, though. I can just imagine what a hilarious disaster that would be and I don't think any bonding would be happening


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## jannette (Aug 24, 2011)

Laffeetaffee said:


> I just want people to be clear, I'm not saying people shouldn't send their horses to get trained, I think it's an awesome way to have the horse learn exactly what they need to know for each discipline. I've just grown up with a different idea about how to own and work with horses and I didn't realize how differently people view their horses and their training.[/QUOTE
> 
> did you say earlier in the thread that you actually do not own a horse? have you ever trained a horse of your own?? just asking


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Laffee, I've said it before on this thread and I'll say it again- if only because you're accusing everyone else of being 'the bad guy' despite the fact that there's a pretty good conversation going on here.

You might think you were 'just expressing an opinion', but by giving offensive examples and repeatedly exclaiming that you 'just dont understand why!?' the way you 'just ask a simple question' comes across more heated than it ought to / offensive to some.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure your question has been answered, and nobody really got vicious, so I don't anyone has 'jumped in for the slaughter'.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Okay, I'll be honest, I only read the first post, skimmed the first page, and read the last page so there is probably much that I'll say that has been said before.

I am a trainer. My income comes from training other people's horses. Because I have very limited expenses beyond the price of feed, I only take in a handful of horses at a time so that I'm not overly rushed trying to get everything done every day. So, theoretically, I _would_ have time for an owner who wished to have lessons...but those lessons would not be free. Also, instead of spending the 2 hours on that horse I had planned and getting "x" amount of stuff done with it, I'd be spending 3-4 hours with the horse and owner and getting only about 1/4 of the stuff done that I needed to.

So, instead of a bill for 30 days training and having a horse that's ready to go home, I spend 120 days on the horse, quadrupling the owner's training cost and adding a lesson cost to it. Not many owners want to do that. They would much rather just send the horse to me and get it back in 30-60 days, be able to throw their saddle on and just go ride.

Also, I did want to touch on the assumption that just because people don't have the knowledge or time to train their _own_ horses to the level they want, that they are unworthy of owning said horses. There is a very big difference between _riding_ a horse and _training_ a horse. Learning how to train a horse is a very long process where you gradually work from finished horses down to horses that are less finished, down to slightly green horses, down to very green horses, then maybe down to a mild tempered untrained horse.

There are lots of people out there that know how to ride a horse and ride a horse well but have no idea how to start one on their own. There are folks out there that can ride horses well at world champion levels but don't have the knowledge to train them to get to that point.

Learning how to train a horse isn't something that just happens in lessons for an hour a day over a 30 day span, it takes years and more dedication than most people have, especially if learning to train isn't a passion for them.

I'm 29 years old, I've been riding horses on my own since I was 3, I started putting miles on green broke horses when I was 12 and I broke my first horse all on my own when I was 14...all under the watchful eye of an experienced professional trainer. I've spent the last 17 years learning all that I know about taking a horse from unhandled or troubled to calm and responsive and pleasant. There are still about a zillion things that I _don't_ know.

Not everyone has the ability, time, or desire to spend decades learning how to take a horse from green to finished so they would rather someone else get the horse rideable to the level that they want and then just enjoy the horse without the risk and frustration that comes with training when you don't know what you're doing.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Inga said:


> Once when I was young, I took one of my mares to a trainer. I went regularly to check on her and she was only there a total of 3 weeks because I didn't like what happened. Looking back, it was sort of funny. I went in and checked her out, she was standing in the stall with a funny look on her face (yes, I probably read into what I see) anyway, she looked odd. The trainer came rushing out by me and said "Well, I learned one thing about that mare... You NEVER hit her with a whip" then he was called away. I could hear one of the stable hands chuckle and I asked him what happened. My mare dumped the guy big time and then went back after him. This mare was as sweet as could be BUT you had to treat her with respect. She took correction if it was fair but, I am guessing, she saw what he did as very unfair. As has been stated in other Saddlebred threads, this breed will NOT tolerate the abuse some of the other breeds do. They will either shut down or match the aggressive energy. Needless to say, we went home that day because there would be no paybacks to the horse.
> They (the barn staff) also had renamed her "May West" saying "When she is good, she is good but when she is bad, she is even better" that was a clue as to what they knew happened behind the scenes.
> 
> Needless to say, with age and experience, I got smarter and much much more careful in who I picked as a trainer. That horrid man had managed to show some very successful horses but... wasn't my cup of tea. I love animals and It might annoy some folks but I put their feelings above success any day of the week. If you have the right horse, you can have it all. Sometimes, it just takes a little longer to get there.
> ...


Did she go back to War Admiral, or Oman's Desdemona Denmark, or the old Bourbon bloodlines by any chance? Those horses could hold a grudge and tell you what was what.

Mae West was how she spelled her name, the actress that is.

You can also tell a lot about a Saddlebred training barn by how they air up their stall horses. Very telling. And kept me from working for a few, because of that.

As for choosing a trainer? Pay attention to rumors and don't discount them. If you hear a trainer has killed a horse, is abusive, and has questionable practices? Pay attention and don't just think it is "oh they are just jealous of that trainer." Usually there is a reason for those rumors.

Look at how horses look in stalls, are they fat and shiny? Are stalls bedded good? Are they calm?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

A good trainer is worth their weight n gold......there's no way on this green earth would I ever be egotistical and pompous enough to think I could do a perfect job all on my own.......it's not easy, it's not fast and anyone who says that it is must be living in the land of Unicornia playing with their ponies.

You either want to ride a well broke horse and ride it well - lessons for this.....or else you want to be a trainer and break horses and ride them well - clients and horses for that.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Palomine said:


> Did she go back to War Admiral, or Oman's Desdemona Denmark, or the old Bourbon bloodlines by any chance? Those horses could hold a grudge and tell you what was what.
> 
> Mae West was how she spelled her name, the actress that is.
> 
> ...


 
Ha Ha Yeah, I see I spelled Mae West wrong. Oops! I shouldn't always be in a hurry but... I am usually multi tasking. 

That mare was Kourageous Kalu breeding. I was told by many people that she was nuts but, she wasn't. She was as sweet as a horse could ever be, she just didn't tolerate abuse, as no horse should. I never knew of a Saddlebred by the name War Admiral, just a thoroughbred. Learn something new every day.

I have been to trainers barns where the horses all run to the back of the stall and park out. Makes me want to cry. The trainer I was talking about however, most horse were fairly calm. A few of them were jumpy and I was young and stupid enough to listen to Bull yet back then. This guy was the trainer to go to for gaiting a horse, back then. In this area that is. I had a blast riding show horses in that barn and learned to ride (or die) as he would toss me up on a horse and then out would come the fire extinguishers, whips etc.... You learn to stay on or else. When you are a kid, you think "wow! I am so lucky to have the privilage to ride a world champion horses even if it is risking your life."

Other things to pay attention to with trainers is the other clients. How is this person to them? How are THEY to their horses. I am sure we could all tell horror stories. It is so much better to learn through others mistakes then make them yourself. In my case, my horse was fine afterward, but he was quite sore for some time. Many horses don't fare so well in the hands of those types.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

oh vair oh said:


> And, on the flipside, I have worked under the table for a few big name trainers in the stock horse world. It's a very different world of "sending to the trainers" for show horses. Especially when owners don't even live in the same state as their horses in training. There is so much shady stuff that goes on when you are a customer, that your horse is not really personally invested in the trainer as far as making it win a class goes. You have to be really careful. I avoid BNTs like the plague. If I absolutely had to send my horse to someone, I would choose a small trainer with good moral standing and a few loyal clientele. Bigger isn't always better.


I agree that bigger is not always better.
But I am curious what you consider shady?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

amberly said:


> I think that the owner should learn why the horse is doing something and try to fix it. There is only a few things - one of them is that you are either asking the question wrong or you are asking the wrong question. The horse may not understand. So I believe it's the owners job to figure this out on their own, rather than send their horse off to a trainer and have it come back without your knowledge on how to prevent it from happening again and if it does happen again, they need to know how to fix it. In my opinion, it just isn't a good source. The best source is yourself. YOU need to learn what the problem is and fix it yourself. Maybe look up some videos you like - like on Buck Brannaman. I like Buck the best and I follow some of his techniques.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is the biggest heap of hogwash I have seen in a long time. My horse is the reflection of the dumba$$ who owned him as a 2 yr old. She made excuses for him, let him bolt, kick, etc, and he is now 7, I have had him 3 yrs and he is still testing. He WAS badly trained, but, after thousands of dollars spent on QUALIIFIED trainers who also taught me-he is much improved. And, just FYI-I trained my previous horse, so it is not that i don't know how......I know enough to know when it is better left to someone else. 

You are incredibly naive if you think that the average owner can train their own horse. It is a recipe for disaster, IMO. I would bet, that you have little to no real ownership experience, compared with those of us who have owned and ridden many.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I agree that bigger is not always better.
> But I am curious what you consider shady?


The fact that I was under the table, number one. Horses that get abscesses and then are miraculously sound the day before the show. Helping give horses questionable injections before they go in a class. Longing the horses for an hour before the clients arrive. Putting shoes on yearlings. Tying the horses high or to their saddle for long periods of time. Caring for the horses that have had their tails cut or de-nerved. Just little things like that start to add up and make me go "hmmm..." and that probably didn't cover what happens when I wasn't around, and I wasn't around any of them for long.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

oh vair oh said:


> The fact that I was under the table, number one. Horses that get abscesses and then are miraculously sound the day before the show. Helping give horses questionable injections before they go in a class. Longing the horses for an hour before the clients arrive. Putting shoes on yearlings. Tying the horses high or to their saddle for long periods of time. Caring for the horses that have had their tails cut or de-nerved. Just little things like that start to add up and make me go "hmmm..." and that probably didn't cover what happens when I wasn't around, and I wasn't around any of them for long.



I have yet to work for a trainer that I was legitimately paid. I was always paid under the table.
But I can say that was lucky enough to not have to witness the practices you described, trainer big time or small. That's a shame.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I think the best way to break this whole thing down is to say that there is nothing wrong with training your horse yourself/ wanting to be very involved, sending them off to a trainer and not seeing them at all until they come back, and all the grey areas between. Everyone may have their own opinions and preferences, which you are entitled to, but in the end they are still preferences and opinions.
What it comes down to is the individual horse and person. Some people are not equipped to train a horse at all, maybe because of age, physical conditions, lack of knowledge, plain disinterest, etc. Some might be willing to learn with their horses, some might just want a nice horse to ride out on and have no interest whatsoever in learning how to deal with a problem. Trainers are here for a reason, to train horses. Some want to train riders, too, some just want to deal with the horses. But there is nothing wrong with utilizing a trainer's abilities, whether it's because you are solely interested in the product of the training or because you're interested in the process.
Personally, I have seen plenty of people form strong bonds with horses that they bought already trained. There's much, much more to bonding than just teaching them to do something like accept a bit and do a leg yield, although it definitely can help for some horses and some riders. My best friend bought a teenaged arabian gelding from a trail riding business because she fell in love with him- she had nothing to do with his training, but they have an incredible bond. He was a bit mangy and indifferent when she first got him, but after being in her care for a while, he literally blossomed into a sassy, joyful little horse who loves his job and his human. I'm positive it's because he was allowed to bond with one person. She also has a young mare who her family bred and raised and who she trained/ has ridden all the mare's life, and they also have a bond. I have seen trainers who did not bond with their horses at all, keeping their relationship 110% business. No bond, no love, just respect, and that was all they needed.
I am of the personal opinion that if you can be involved in the training of your horse, even if it's just checking on them once a week/ calling the trainer for a quick report, do it. My arabian is 6 years old, I have had him for 4 years, and is only just getting kicked into gear, because I refused to settle for anything less than a trainer who would teach me to teach him. I'm very interested in the process and even in becoming a trainer some day, so I was pretty firm on that. A lot of people would have just sent him off to a trainer for a month or two and gotten it over with, and I don't think that would have been the wrong thing to do, I just didn't want to.
I can understand if someone was showing at a high level and just wanted to get a trained horse to work with, just like I can understand how someone might want to have a sane, trained trail horse so that they could enjoy their riding. It's all preference and opinion.
I understand what you're trying to say, OP, or at least now I really do- as it has been pointed out, your beginning to this thread was kind of fuzzy. I am not saying that you are wrong, either, and I don't think anyone else here is trying to beat you down, despite the defensive responses... And of course, everything I've said in my little essay here is totally my opinion and I don't expect anyone else to share it. This is a good thread, though. I'm glad you made it.
And so, my little book ends. Lol. Sorry for that.


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## eeo11horse (Jun 22, 2012)

I would never send my horse to a trainer. I would, however, work with a trainer to help me learn how to work with my horse and solve any problems I have. I can't stand when people don't do anything with their horse except ride at shows. The most fun part about owning horses is bonding with them and watching them progress and knowing you had a hand in training the horse.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

eeo11horse said:


> I would never send my horse to a trainer. I would, however, work with a trainer to help me learn how to work with my horse and solve any problems I have. I can't stand when people don't do anything with their horse except ride at shows. The most fun part about owning horses is bonding with them and watching them progress and knowing you had a hand in training the horse.


You do realize that most people who send their horse to a trainer do actually ride it, and some don't even show? Sending it to a trainer has nothing to do "bonding" or watching them grow. The trainers I have had my guy with offered him growth far beyond my abilities. I have many reasons for sending my horse to a trainer, one of which is someone else riding him. I think it is a huge mistake for a horse-or rider-for that matter, to limit their abilities to one horse or rider. I also like to watch someone else ride him sometimes.

Never say "Never". You may have not met the horse yet who offers you challenges you cannot meet.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Palomine said:


> first it was he, then she? And also have problem with you saying you heard that judge changed course? If this was H/J class, those jumps are set up in advance and the riders are out there walking that course, so they can stride it off.


Sorry if I kept changing that, I always mix up when I type 'he' and 'she.' The rider was a 'she.' This is a 4-H western class. It's not jumping and it's not trail. There is a paper that shows were you trot, walk, lope, turn around, back up, or whatever. 



> And someone who is not experienced with horses, and by that I mean they either never have owned any, or only owned a couple and those are only ones they have worked with, will quickly find themselves in trouble with a hard headed horse, a cold backed one, or a mean one.


Maybe the horse wasn't hard-headed or rough. I don't know for sure. But the gal always had her horse trained for the shows. She didn't know much, that's for sure.



> Reflection of your soul? Oh, please.
> 
> Obvious how little you really know about any of this.


I know more than my mother in most ways. just ask her, she said it herself a few days ago when we were trying out a new horse.

If you train or work with the horse the most, it will reflect your soul to you and to others.
Say I was trying out someone's horse. The horse kept rearing and doing it's own thing. It didn't step over correctly and it jumped every time you go to pet his shoulder. That tells me that the person who worked with the horse the most did not train it well and does not have enough pride or care in the horse to teach and treat it right. Horses do relfect your soul. And I believe they do.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

amberly said:


> Say I was trying out someone's horse. The horse kept rearing and doing it's own thing. It didn't step over correctly and it jumped every time you go to pet his shoulder. That tells me that the person who worked with the horse the most did not train it well and does not have enough pride or care in the horse to teach and treat it right. Horses do relfect your soul. And I believe they do.


No, that tells me that the owner doesn't have a clue and needs a coach or trainer. As do you if the horse "keeps rearing up" and "doing its own thing." A good, experienced rider should be able to get on most horses and get them to perform most basic movements at the very least, not allow a horse to "do its own thing."


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

amberly said:


> Sorry if I kept changing that, I always mix up when I type 'he' and 'she.' The rider was a 'she.' This is a 4-H western class. It's not jumping and it's not trail. There is a paper that shows were you trot, walk, lope, turn around, back up, or whatever.
> 
> 
> Maybe the horse wasn't hard-headed or rough. I don't know for sure. But the gal always had her horse trained for the shows. She didn't know much, that's for sure.
> ...


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

we have always bought either green broke horses or sent them off to get basic training. it worked out fine for most of them but my sisters mare needed extra help. even when she just got back from the trainers i knew that she was going to need a lot of work to be finished properly. 

my sister grew scared of her and she eventually became so dangerous that she barely threw a halter on her for several years. as soon as i graduated i decided to take on the challenge to work with the mare. though i have a lot of experience riding and conditioning horses i knew i wasnt quite skilled enough to "fix" her. my parents didnt want to spend any money on her because she was crazy and i didnt have much to spend. 

i worked with her for months and months. it was a lot of hard work and i spent a few of those days in tears. eventually i got her to be more respectful on the ground and actually rideable again. and though i was proud of myself for accomplishing something at the end of the day i realized that i just spent 6 months doing what a professional trainer could have done well within a week. i put a lot of effort in her but i just didnt have the skills or the time that she really needed. 

shes no where near finished and im saving money to send her off to someone who really knows what theyre doing. i fully intend to be apart of that process as much as i can be (without getting in the way). i regret not sending her off sooner. i could have spent those years trailering her around doing stuff that i really wanted to be doing, more relaxed, without that concern of getting hurt in the back of my mind. it wasnt a waste...shes loads better than she used to be, but i want to enjoy riding more. and she deserves to be taught by a professional.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_I would be among those who would send a horse away for training. I do not have the time, inclination, nor nearly enough talent, to put a solid foundation on a horse. By sending it to a trainer, and then having my coach put occasional rides on the horse when I get home, I am making sure that I have a better trained horse, then what I would be able to do by myself._

_As for bonding with a horse....one of the school horses I ride is in his early 20's (22 we think), and I am sure he has had great bonds with other owners in his past. I can say for sure him and I have an exceptional bond, possibly better then the other kids that ride him at the barn. I bet one of his previous owners could walk up to him, and make our bond look like nothing. _


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

amberly said:


> Sorry if I kept changing that, I always mix up when I type 'he' and 'she.' The rider was a 'she.' This is a 4-H western class. It's not jumping and it's not trail. There is a paper that shows were you trot, walk, lope, turn around, back up, or whatever.
> 
> 
> Maybe the horse wasn't hard-headed or rough. I don't know for sure. But the gal always had her horse trained for the shows. She didn't know much, that's for sure.
> ...


I sincerely hope my horses don't currently reflect my soul by the way. My god, I must have some sort of multiple personality disorder going on in there!!!! Maybe I should go to my doctor and have her put me on some more meds, because as crazy different as all four of mine are (three of which only *I* have worked with!!!!), I **** well must be nuts!


PS. As for "pride or care in the horse"...what about those fairy tale rainbow fart people? They have plenty of pride in their horses, too much pride in their horses, in fact, and that's why some of their horses turn out to be obnoxious, spoiled monsters. Just an example of how your statement is *somewhat* flawed.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Just curious since LaffeeTaffee doesn't have horses? And never has had, for that matter, how she feels that she is qualified to give advice on anything horse related.

The advice she gave, for instance, on "lasso horse's face with bridle" and "come from front to bridle and not underneath" in the thread "Training a young horse" that she just posted and how she had to retrain herself to not come from underneath? 

She doesn't believe in sending horses off to trainers, so am sure she is not working with anyone else's horses, so where is she coming up with all these anecdotes of hers?


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

@ Justdressageit and palogal
That was my point. The owner doesn't have a clue - which is why the horse would do that.

@demonwolfmoon
Haha! well, have pride. Just not too much that the horse gets that way. I was meaning just loving your horse for everything he is, but not too much that he gets spoiled and such.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Laffeetaffee said:


> This goes for any horse for any kind of training, including rehabilitation. I've read lots of threads about people who buy a horse and then send it off to a trainer for six months to be trained for reining, dressage, bucking/rearing problems, and even just exercise. The horse returns fully trained and cured of everything, and the owner can then use the horse in shows.
> 
> But this gives me two impressions 1. That the owner isn't skilled enough to be able to train the horse these things by themselves, so they are probably not very advanced riders or interested in understanding the horse's psychology. 2. The owner is not willing to take the training with the horse, and the owner cannot understand where certain problems arose in the first place to cause such bucking/rearing etc. Or if it was competition training, the horse has been programmed to respond like a machine, and the owner will have no other choice but to treat it as such because they have not developed that "feel" with their horse since it has been gone.
> 
> ...


Wait...who the heck are YOU to judge about why someone sends a horse to a trainer? From what I know about you over the years on these forums...you are NOT a trainer, have NOT trained top level horses, and really don't have a clue about how to get a horse broke in the body or to get a horse to perform under saddle at it's ability.

I show AQHA and have shown/owned horses for 51 years. I just retired my horse after showing him at the Regional AQHA level (quite successfully) for 12 years. I had him with my trainer for most of that time and brought him home here and there, then back to my trainer's. Why? Because I show on a serious level have a FULL TIME job and simply can't go and ride all day long, and because I want him at his peak at all times. My trainer keeps him maintained for me for these reasons. There is nothing wrong with this....it's what keep REAL trainers in business and earning and living, and keeps people like me with BIG goals working AND riding. But then you don't ride, show or train at the level a lot of us do....so....


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

amberly said:


> @ Justdressageit and palogal
> That was my point. *The owner doesn't have a clue - which is why the horse would do that.*
> 
> @demonwolfmoon
> Haha! well, have pride. Just not too much that the horse gets that way. I was meaning just loving your horse for everything he is, but not too much that he gets spoiled and such.



BUT-you said YOU were the one riding it, not the owner. Could it be, as Palogal suggested, that you did not know how to ride it? My horse is really broke-but if someone doesn't know how to ride he will literally stand there and not move. Are you suggesting that it is MY fault (or the fault of the professional reining trainer who trained him) that he does this? Don't think so. Ask the right way and you will get what you asked for. Otherwise-he becomes a parking lot attendant, and he can be really good at that.:wink:


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> BUT-you said YOU were the one riding it, not the owner. Could it be, as Palogal suggested, that you did not know how to ride it? My horse is really broke-but if someone doesn't know how to ride he will literally stand there and not move. Are you suggesting that it is MY fault (or the fault of the professional reining trainer who trained him) that he does this? Don't think so. Ask the right way and you will get what you asked for. Otherwise-he becomes a parking lot attendant, and he can be really good at that.:wink:


I understand your point, but even if a new rider is riding him he could still act that way.
I know how to ride and control a horse.

Even an experienced rider can have issues controlling someone elses horse. It can be the horse or it can be the way the owner taught and treated it. 
If the horse has been abused even a little, if a new and softer person comes along the horse will still flinch or try to flee. Same goes with riding. If someone has taught the horse that he can get away with things, any other rider will have to try and fight that issue. Some times they will succeed and some times they will not. It depends on a lot of things.
The horse may know one thing, but the owner/rider knows something else that the horse may take predator-like or dangerous or something. Like i said, it just depends.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Sorry, I don't agree with you. There are pretty basic skills we all use for riding. To be able to ride any horse you have to be able to "read" the horse pretty well, which starts with grooming, tacking up, and then to in the saddle. IF you are a skilled horse person, (note, I said IF) you should be able to make that horse do basic maneuvers. If not-then no. That is what I am getting at. You either have the skills, or not. No 2 horses are exactly the same. You have to have a variety of skills to get the horse to do what you want. You either have the skill set, or you don't. Period. If you get on a horse and it is "doing its own thing", the way I see it, you have about 3 seconds to figure out what you are doing wrong and try something else or brace to hit the ground. You should, at the very least, be able to make it stand (which means stop "doing its own thing"). You should ALWAYS start with soft and go from there. Let the horse tell you how much pressure is needed. JMHO. I think you need to at least watch a REAL trainer and learn. It is amazing what you can absorb if you pay attention.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Ahhh. The passion of youth.

I'm reminded of one of my first track jobs. After a few weeks the trainer told me to come back after I'd fallen off at least three times. Oh boy. Quite humbling.

I will wish something similar for others. Without injury, of course.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - which is exactly what my first and the rest of my posts are.
I don't think we should argue over our opinions because it's pretty sunny outside, and we should spend more of our time riding than typing. I know I do


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

amberly said:


> Everyone is entitled to their own opinion - which is exactly what my first and the rest of my posts are.
> I don't think we should argue over our opinions because it's pretty sunny outside, and we should spend more of our time riding than typing. I know I do


 It is dark here, so I am done for the day, but thanks.:wink:

And yes, I will have my opinion of how you approach riding.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

The last thing I want to say, and this is an honest to God fact, Some opinions should be kept to themselves.

But I was only using examples anyways, so it doesn't matter all that much.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

amberly said:


> The last thing I want to say, and this is an honest to God fact, Some opinions should be kept to themselves.
> 
> But I was only using examples anyways, so it doesn't matter all that much.


Actually, that is not an "honest to God Fact". It is your opinion.:?


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Some opinions beg to be said.

And should be.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> Actually, that is not an "honest to God Fact". It is your opinion.:?


True.
I am keeping very much of my opinions to myself but I would love to tell them. But I won't because I common sense. LOL, I always call that a superpower because the '90's was the last generation to have any. This generation's grandparents will be VERY interesting.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

I honestly don't see the point in continuing the conversation when the opinionated person is clearly missing the point. It's kind of like beating your head against a wall. 

Amberly, have you considered that opinions are just that, and the other posters MAY HAVE A POINT? I'm reading your posts and they are hitting me as very pig headed and stubborn, as if everyone is wrong but you? If I am wrong, please tell me. Because having that sort of mentality is very limiting.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

I am only saying my opinions and everyone else is saying theirs.
I do see the point in every post - it's just that I have different opinions than they do and they have different opinions that I do.


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

Wow, this was a pretty interesting thread to read. I think I laughed the most at the comments about a horse "reflecting your soul". My horse is exactly like a 13-14 year old boy with ADD. I can guarantee there is nothing about my soul or otherwise that comes off as a 13-14 year old boy with ADD. HAHA! Now, if you want to tell me how smart, gorgeous, and observant my horse is, I'll gladly take the credit for that one. Of course, both fit him, but the former is the more "true" description of my horse. 

I've had my horse since he was roughly 1.5 years old. I laid all of the foundation all the way up to the first 5 rides of his life when he was 3. Then, rules changed at the barn where I was boarding and I moved him to a trainer. I've known the trainer for years by working in the Class A Arabian show circuit and being around those people. He works and thinks along the same lines that I do and I trust him fully and the people who work for him. My horse was there for 7 months for basic breaking and beginning show training. I wasn't there every day. I have a life. I have a job, a family, and a busy life with that family. I wasn't even there every week. Did I want to be? Sure - if I didn't have to drive an hour one way to do it. You know what? In all those 7 months, my horse was never confused about who I was. Not once! I know how he treats strangers. I was no stranger. 

If I choose to send my horse to training, it's my business why I do it. If I want to buy another baby, lay the foundation, and have it sent to a trainer, that's my prerogative. That's part of the joy of being a responsible horse owner. I make decisions based on what is the best situation for myself AND my horse. There is compromise, of course. My horse isn't at the trainer now and showing in junior classes like I'd love to do. He's also not living out in the open with a herd of horses on 100+ acres of free range like I'm sure he'd love to do. 

It doesn't matter if someone has the ability to train from the ground up or not. If someone wants to train a horse themselves, fine. Not my horse, not my problem - as long as you and your horse don't hurt me, of course. If someone wants to send their horse to a trainer 3000 miles away and not see it while it's gone, who cares? That's just one of those things that you need to get over. It's not your place to judge what someone's motives are. No, not everyone who sends a horse to training has a problem horse or gets back a competition-ready horse. Those are stereotypes that some people should probably just mentally purge. Of course, there are lots of those stereotypes regardless - the ones that should be mentally purged from society altogether.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I did not read the whole thread, but all of the first page, and I just had an experience today that (to ME) kind of showed what I think the OP is feeling. Forgive me if I missed something in 12 pages, rendering this irrelevant....

My neighbors came over this afternoon after their spring break trip. Their sweet daughter had already swept out the barn!! So I got the fairly new to me TWH out, and asked the mother if she would like to ride. I saddled, warmed up the mare, she seemed really solid, so I got off, handed her the helmet, and put her up. The ride went well for a couple of minutes, then no disaster, but not great. Mare was not bad, but it was fairly obvious the lady was not sure how to communicate with the horse.
I got back on, and the mare proceeded to be a wonderful TWH. The lady kept going on about how I made it look SO EASY. And so, there is your answer, I think...

Riding LOOKS easy when some people do it. Training horses LOOKS easy. Those of us who have worked on this skill ALL of our lives realize it is NOT, but those who have never done it think it is.

Going to read the rest of the thread now....

Nancy


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Yea, horses are definitely not easy to train. I am training my horse to keep his space and stop nipping at me. He's gotten away with it for at least 15 years and I have had enough. Now that he will start becoming my main horse I better work on that. My mom lets him get away with it whenever she comes out. Nope, not with me buster!


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## Laffeetaffee (Dec 5, 2012)

Palomine said:


> Just curious since LaffeeTaffee doesn't have horses? And never has had, for that matter, how she feels that she is qualified to give advice on anything horse related.
> 
> The advice she gave, for instance, on "lasso horse's face with bridle" and "come from front to bridle and not underneath" in the thread "Training a young horse" that she just posted and how she had to retrain herself to not come from underneath?
> 
> She doesn't believe in sending horses off to trainers, so am sure she is not working with anyone else's horses, so where is she coming up with all these anecdotes of hers?


Because you are so he**bent on trying to prove that I am just a teenage girl playing with plastic Breyer horse models in her room...

I have never owned a horse because my parents did not want me to own a horse. I asked for a horse when I was younger and they said I will never own one. I had to reach out in my community in order to work with and learn about horses. I joined a horsemanship program in high school, worked with some of my neighbors horses and I was metaphorically taken in my my neighbor who actually died and left me his horse. To make a long sob story short, I was told that the horse would be given to me so I paid for everything, feed, trimming, vet bills, equipment... I was at her corral every day because she had Cushing's Disease and chronic laminitis, all of which the owner's widow refused to believe. I organized my own vets, farriers, and basically saved her life. Unfortunately I went broke doing all this, so the owner's widow sold the horse to someone else.

When you jeer at me for not having owned my own horse, you have no idea what level of hurt you are causing me. Please do not even go there, it is NOT because I don't want a horse and I just like showing off to my neighbors what I know, it's because this is only option. I have done literally years of research and collaboration because I was not able to take lessons like everyone else, I have had to collaborate with horse trainers online, study for almost ten years on horse behavior and techniques, and take it slow and steady with horses because I know how easy it is to make a small problem exponentially worse.

Everything you have said on this thread has been purposely vicious and derogatory, and you know it. I can certainly take some helpful information, but since you have offered none, then I can only hope you do not post like this all the time.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

LaffeeTaffee-the point is this. If you have not owned a horse, you should not be making judgements about those of us who do. We do what is best for our horses and ourselves and do not make these decisions lightly. I would suggest, instead of making these judgements, you should continue to be a "sponge", soaking up all the knowledge (preferably hands on, not from books and studies)you possibly can so that when you can own a horse one day you are well equipped for it.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

well said franknbeans!

I've owned horses since I was tiny, schooled, competed and trainied to the highest levels (had 1 horse long listed for the paralympics). Does sending my youngster to a trainer make me a bad owner? no it makes me a sensible one who realised she was out of her depth and roped in the best help available.

As for your sob story, more fool you for going broke over a horse that wasnt yours in the first place, next time get the horse in your name before you spend the money, or just walk away. I've almost gone broke over Reeco but at least he was MINE.

Finaly one of my best instructors favorite saying was "horses can't read text books" you can't learn horses from textbooks alone, text books are theories often meant to teach people to train the "ideal" horse. There are no ideal horses, each and every one is different and you have to adapt for that horse. 
you can do degrees in equine science but most equine employers would take experiance over qualifications any day (even better if you have both!)


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Well said Faye-I would like to add that horses don't watch videos of trainers either.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> LaffeeTaffee-the point is this. If you have not owned a horse, you should not be making judgements about those of us who do. We do what is best for our horses and ourselves and do not make these decisions lightly. I would suggest, instead of making these judgements, you should continue to be a "sponge", soaking up all the knowledge (preferably hands on, not from books and studies)you possibly can so that when you can own a horse one day you are well equipped for it.


...and that about wraps it up for me as well. Well put. Reading alone ≠ the _true understanding _that experience gives a person. 
I could at this point insert a gratuitous snarky comment but someone else in the thread posted "walk a mile in my shoes then judge me". I think that fits just fine for this situation.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> I would suggest, instead of making these judgements, you should continue to be a "sponge", soaking up all the knowledge (preferably hands on, not from books and studies)you possibly can so that when you can own a horse one day you are well equipped for it.


It's obvious she has had some hands-on work with horses, as she said. Books and studies can be very helpful as well. Yes, she won't gain AS MUCH experience as hands-on, but she is still learning and knows a lot. Some of my experience has come from videos and books too. Not a lot, because I am not a fan of reading, but some.
It sounds to me like she is pretty well equipped for owning a horse. You can always learn things, but I cna tell she already knows a lot and she doesn't have to listen to anything anybody says. Heck, don't listen to me if you don't want to, it's not in my control if you do or don't.
Anyways, she knows a lot and she can learn a lot, just like everyone else.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

amberly said:


> Yea, horses are definitely not easy to train. I am training my horse to keep his space and stop nipping at me. He's gotten away with it for at least 15 years and I have had enough. Now that he will start becoming my main horse I better work on that. My mom lets him get away with it whenever she comes out. Nope, not with me buster!


So um.. your soul bites and invades your space?


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## KountryPrincess (Oct 23, 2012)

Laffeetaffee said:


> Because you are so he**bent on trying to prove that I am just a teenage girl playing with plastic Breyer horse models in her room...
> 
> I have never owned a horse because my parents did not want me to own a horse. I asked for a horse when I was younger and they said I will never own one. I had to reach out in my community in order to work with and learn about horses. I joined a horsemanship program in high school, worked with some of my neighbors horses and I was metaphorically taken in my my neighbor who actually died and left me his horse. To make a long sob story short, I was told that the horse would be given to me so I paid for everything, feed, trimming, vet bills, equipment... I was at her corral every day because she had Cushing's Disease and chronic laminitis, all of which the owner's widow refused to believe. I organized my own vets, farriers, and basically saved her life. Unfortunately I went broke doing all this, so the owner's widow sold the horse to someone else.
> 
> ...


Regarding the "Cushing's horse with chronic laminitis". I am a former owner of a horse with Cushings disease. Once the horse develops laminitis, they are generally in for the rest of their life to be lived with misery and pain. Cushings is a *chronic* disease. It will never go away, the tumor that is present on the pituitary will only grow larger, or, at best, stabilize and not grow, but it will always be there affecting the horse's metabolism. Cushings is the *cause* of the laminitis, and because it will never go away, the horse will founder over and over. Why keep a horse like that alive? Laminitis is incredibly painful for a horse and if you know they are going to continue to have the problem, IMO (yes just my opinion) it is cruel, very, to keep those horses alive. 

I had to put my boy down. He struggled for 45 days after the initial founder, and one day he let me know, in no uncertian terms, that he was done with all this crap. We nervebocked him to get him out of the barn, and he marched down the driveway with me to meet the vet. He never looked back, I have never been more certian that someone was ready to leave this world, and he had been my best friend for 12 years. 

I can only assume the reason that horse was/is being kept alive is due to the inexperience of the actual owner. You will never win a battle with laminitis in a Cushings horse. It will always come back, and they are in constant pain.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

palogal said:


> So um.. your soul bites and invades your space?


Brisco is my mom's horse. She always worked with him before I needed a more challenging horse. Brisco is getting better with me though.

Yes, horses do reflect your soul, but not in EVERY way. Although, my mom does invade my space....yea, knock before you come into my room mom.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Laffeetaffee said:


> Because you are so he**bent on trying to prove that I am just a teenage girl playing with plastic Breyer horse models in her room...
> 
> I have never owned a horse because my parents did not want me to own a horse. I asked for a horse when I was younger and they said I will never own one. I had to reach out in my community in order to work with and learn about horses. I joined a horsemanship program in high school, worked with some of my neighbors horses and I was metaphorically taken in my my neighbor who actually died and left me his horse. To make a long sob story short, I was told that the horse would be given to me so I paid for everything, feed, trimming, vet bills, equipment... I was at her corral every day because she had Cushing's Disease and chronic laminitis, all of which the owner's widow refused to believe. I organized my own vets, farriers, and basically saved her life. Unfortunately I went broke doing all this, so the owner's widow sold the horse to someone else.
> 
> ...



You really need to keep your stories straighter. You say you are 24? Your parents divorced and have been raised by grandmother since 10? But parents told you you would never own a horse.

Now you say you got your horse experience in 10 years of online studies of trainers? Didn't get interested in horses until 12? Worked with other people's horses? (The only part that makes sense is that you are into "games and creative writing". That I believe.)

So all that qualifies you to be telling people who have worked in this industry for more decades than you have been alive horse advice, and to put them down and their trainers?

10 years of online studies do not qualify you to be giving out horse advice. Especially since this thread made it clear that you have no use for horse trainers, nor the people who utilize them.

And in your "showing off to neighbors" you may well get someone hurt, because you have no practical advice to really offer anyone.

You are giving out advice willy nilly online too, and your advice is not sound advice. Such as the "bridle from front and lasso face" on another thread on this forum.

I actually couldn't care less if you have a horse, no horse or a thousand of them. What I do care about is your telling people what to do with horses, when you haven't a clue about so much to do with horses. Such as to the difference in breed reactions to training techniques for instance.

Things that can be safely done with QH for instance? Will get you killed with a Saddlebred or Thoroughbred.

And you started this thread, mainly I think to "show off to your neighbors" your brilliant horse knowledge. And when you got shot down? You got your tail over the dashboard about it.

You are putting trainers down, and the owners who send their horses to them. So who is "vicious and derogatory" here? I gave you quite a few good reasons as to why people would send a horse to a trainer. And I did it nicely, and was informative about the subject. So did others, and you STILL argued about it, from your vast online knowledge from the very trainers you put down so freely. 

I gave you helpful information, in several posts. As to why horses go to trainers, the fact that at a trainers there are access to other horse professionals, such as vet, farrier, grooms, the fact that some horses are not the type of horses that can be ridden by amateurs, the amount of training and hard work it takes to compete a horse at Congress level, or GP, Louisville, Olympics.

That you are woefully ignorant about training barns and horse trainers, was clear when you said a trainer should train on horse, while showing owner what he is doing, tell them why he is doing it, and then get off the horse and have owner get on it and let them do it.

As for your hope I don't post like this all the time?

I'm 57 years old, I don't coddle anyone. I don't pull punches with anyone. I post exactly what I think and actually am much nicer on here than I would be to your face. 

And if you went to any barn and came across like you have done here with your advice? You would think I was all sweetness and light. 

The proof is in the pudding.

Quit trying to pass yourself off as being more knowledgeable than you really are. There are some very good horsepeople on here, I can tell from what they write, and how they advise on a thread in the various forums. Their advice is sound, and shows their experience.

Want to be taken seriously? Grow up.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

i would only send a horse to a trainer who would include training ME on the horse's new training, kinda like getting a car souped up and having the garage train me how to drive it.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Laffee is 24 years old, but doesn't own a horse? What about leasing??? At this rate, from the story provided about the inherited horse that didn't work, money can be remade/recovered. I'm not being entitled, I'm stating a fact, there's work, there's Etsy, there's Ebay... And so if the person has little to no real life horse experience, why give advice to others like you have a clue? And trust me, I am asking, not trying to be obnoxious!!

I guess I'm confused as to the "excuse" of why there's little to no real world experience here? Clearly, people who decide to send their horses to trainers are being downed here, which makes no sense to me! TRULY, could Laffee could train her own horse, should she go out and buy, say, a weanling like my dumb butt did, and train it from scratch to finished with no trainer, without making the situation dangerous?
Wouldn't then, a trainer be worth it? Even with a dead broke horse, I think there would be the inevitable problem/quirk...horses are living creatures, not machines!!! And if you've never had a horse, never had to deal with their day to day ****, how would you know how to handle it correctly?

I'm a big one of saying that a horse is JUST AN ANIMAL, like any other, the only issue being size, which creates the danger. There is no one right answer!!! That being said, given that possibility for danger, isn't it SMARTER to let a professional work with the animal and learn from that professional, so you don't screw up what they did? Why is that so wrong?


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Closed for review

.


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