# Asking a horse to tuck?



## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Does she have lateral flexing down? If not I would start there. At a stop put pressure on the bit till she lowers her head and immediatly release pressure and give a good girl. Do this a lot till she gets it down. From there start driving her with your legs/seat while applying the same pressure with your hands to collect her up. What type of horse do your have and what type of bit are you using? I find it difficult to get a tuck with a snaffle bit. I don't know if its the shanks giving more pressure to the poll or what but I get better tuck with a shank bit.


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## Stepher (Nov 5, 2007)

How long have you been riding your horse? It could be that she just does not have the muscle to do this. You should be driving your horse from behind and into the bridle; if you are doing this her head will naturally go on vertical and she will carry herself.


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

Yeah, sponging is kind of a quick fix...it confuses a young horse and stifles impulsion. You want her to learn that she can go forward freely without interference in her mouth. The contact will come with time.


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

I would never dream of teaching a horse is go round in a curb or shanked bit :evil: . Curbs are for finished horses, not young ones. All you'll get by using a curb on a young horse, is a tense scared horse that isn't doing the job properly.

You need to do lateral work and flexing before roundness comes. This inclueds moving off leg and moving it's ribs over. After that, you teach a horse to go long and low by sponging and half halts unding the horse brings his head down, then release a little and let the horse stretch down. Many trainers find it useful to lunge a young horse with side reins to teach them to yeild to pressure on the bit.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Sorry forgot this was a young horse when I said that   mea culpa


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## Equina (Jul 28, 2007)

Sara said:


> You want her to learn that she can go forward freely without interference in her mouth. The contact will come with time.


/\ This is great advice.




When I first got my horse, I thought, "oh goodie, let's get him all collected and pretty!" But, as I was doing my half-halts, etc, I realized I was just making him stiff and choppy (although bent at the poll). His head may have been in the correct position, but his back, hip, shoulder, legs...bad! Not what I call collection!

So now, what I've been working on is impulsion. I've ignored the front end and concentrated on getting him to really push forward and use his rear end. I bought extra long reins and let him stretch out as much as he wants. Sometimes his nose is almost on the ground and oh, it feels so smooth and fluid, his tail lightly swishes, and he has a nice spring to his step. Now that he's getting stronger in the rear (after a couple months), he naturally lifts his back and lowers his head as I urge him onward. 

Overall, to start training your horse to "be collected and tuck her nose in," ignore her nose. =) Get her rear end strong and responsive...then her back muscles strong and flexible...soon her neck will become supple...and down the road you can polish her off and easily tuck her nose.


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## ox-tuff_rider-xo (May 21, 2007)

Ok, I usually start with a pretty lose rein but over time I have to tighten up because she runs around and cute out of the rail and such, so I can't really do that. And I don't really know what you mean by putting pressure on the reins, like just gently pulling?
I don't mean to be rude to anyone if I do sound rude, Im just sorta confused.


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

> I would never dream of teaching a horse is go round in a curb or shanked bit . Curbs are for finished horses, not young ones. All you'll get by using a curb on a young horse, is a tense scared horse that isn't doing the job properly.



I have a 3 year old filly and i ride her in a curb bit and she is very soft.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Unless your three year old has had some very, very intense training, using a curb on her is a quick fix like using a bandaid. I am sure she is extremely soft in a curb...they are fairly severe bits because of the leverage created by the shank. 

There are important lessons a horse has to learn in a snaffle before they are ready to be ridden in a curb. A horse should be able to perform any maneuver you want in a snaffle....that is how you will know they are ready for a curb. There is a reason that show associations allow horses to be ridden in a snaffle until they are 6 years old...they are often not ready before that. A curb is not a fix for a horse who is not responding to a request properly, it is a tool for a properly finished horse.

I will be riding my stallion for the first show season in a curb next year, and even so, I will only use the curb at the show and on the trainng sessions immediately preceding the show. Otherwise, I will go back to the simple loose ring snaffle. 

In my opinion, if someone feels the need to use a curb or more severe bit on their horse because of a training issue, there are holes in the training somewhere, and they should go back a few steps and fill in the holes. I have learned that changing the bit over and over does not solve your problems...training the horse and learning to communicate better with the rest of your body is the key. If someone is just riding for pleasure, and they properly train their horse, I don't see why they would ever have to use a bit other than a basic, mild, snaffle.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

My last post was a little off topic from this thread...I got a little distracted by the bit conversation

I have learned a great method of teaching horses to round up, soften on the bit, soften to lateral flexion, round through the back, and keep wonderful impulsion. But, I am having a hard time figuring out how to explain how to do it. It definitely takes time and practice. 

If anyone else knows what I am trying to explain, please jump in. It is important to start with bridle work from the ground. Bridle and saddle your horse as if you were going to ride, but stay on the ground. Have your reins over the neck as you would when you ride, and grab the rein on whatever side you decide to pick first. Hold the rein around a foot from the bit (varies depeding on size of horse), and sort of pull the rein forward with your hand; you are encouraging your horse to walk around you in a circle. Hold your hand at a height that encourages your horse to flex his neck and poll slightly toward you as well as lower his head to the height you dedire when riding in general. You will be looking for him to be holding his head at the lowered height, flexed inward, and near vertical to the ground, all while staying off the bit (not leaning on it or being pulled into position. To achieve this....when you ask your horse to lead out around you, if he doesn't immediately move forward to get away from the bit pressure add drive. This can be done in different ways depending on the natural energy of your horse. Escalate throught the steps so that you don't frighten or be unfair to your horse. 1. ask to move by moving your hand in the direction 2. kiss 3. raise the free hand to show a dressage or other whip while making another kiss 4. smack the dressage whip against your pant leg, boot, or ground to make a noise while making a kiss 5. spank your horse lightly in the rear while making a kiss. Stop escalating whenever he responds by moving. If he leans on your hand while in the circle, add drive. If he continues to lean on your hand, disengage his hind quarters by quickly pulling his rein around to the fender area of the saddle and then immediately ask him to move forward again with drive. Do this 3 or 4 times in a row and until he stops leaning on you (I am not sure why this works, but it does). Continue adding drive or disengaging until your horse is walking/trotting in a small circle around you (you standing in place) with his head flexed in, down, and him flexed through the pole and neck, with no pressure or leaning on the bit. The point behind this lesson is more about learning self carriage and staying free by staying soft on the bit, and not using it and his riders hands as a steady. 

When you get him great both sides from the ground, this exercise can be done from the saddle by doing serpentines. In the saddle, gently and softly pick up the rein, and if he doesn't immediately start moving his head in the direction you asked, moving his feet that way, and dropping his head so that there is no more contact on the bit, add some drive. Be sure to go through steps like above. As soon as he responds appropriately, give him huge slack, and let him move out freely on a loose rein as a reward. Do left turns, right turns, left circles, right circles, always asking him to bend his head, neck, and body to the appropriate amount for the turn. Learning to respond softly throughout the body on turns like this will begin to carry over in all of his movement, straight and turning. It is amazing how free and flowing his movement will begin to feel while stillhaving him be rounded, soft, supple, and responsive. The drive and softness to the bit are really the keys.

I warm up with 10-20 minutes of serpentines every time I ride, and I also go back and do the bridle work again periodically to make sure we are still communicating clearly. I have also found that the serpentines are an excellent focus exercise for when your horse gets distracted or worked up at a show or other event. 

That is as clearly as I can explain it...there are many subtleties that I cannot explain in words...for that, you would want to work with a trainer who knows how to do this. (John Lyons style)

Good luck


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## horse_luver4e (Jul 12, 2007)

no i thought u guys ment somthing else, my bit is a curb but it's broken in the middle, snaffle maybe? idk but i dont like strait bits.


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