# Kill buyers



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I recently was searching for a new-to-me riding horse, and someone posted a link on the thread to a kill buyer. I did not realize it was a kill buyer, until I went to the site. 

Then it was too late to unsee what it was. 

I have not been able to stop myself from checking the site, and my heart breaks for the horses that go there for such a short time until loading on the truck to the slaughter houses in Mexico. 

"Deadline Friday" or "Deadline" Sunday is at the end of every ad. 


These are mostly all good, useable horses. Older, in their 15-20's but also some babies. There are two Rocky Mountain horse yearling fillies on there now. Deadline Sunday :frown_color:

Currently he has a group of 14 "leftovers" that he will only sell in a group. I can't buy them all, but there are several, 2-3 especially, that I would save if I could. Several gaited horse in the bunch, and I think of the high prices they would command out west, if only they had the chance. 

Horses live a long time, and it is obvious that these horse had decent care before being run through the sale. The owner could open their mouth will little effort. They are used to being handled. Their only "sin" was getting older. 

I don't know what to do. This is making me so depressed and I hate the feeling of helplessness, but I can't seem to stop myself from looking at the videos. 

Two adorable yearling chocolate Rocky Mountain fillies, cute and sweet. Innocents. Headed to slaughter. $350 each. Deadline Sunday. 

I feel the need to do something, but not sure what can be done. 

Many people keep their horses a lifetime, so no room to add more. Where are all these horses coming from? This guy is making a fortune selling horses to slaughter that folks have abandoned to their fate. Riding horses that were faithful companions to their children, are sold at auction and stuck in a muddy pen with no food or water and crowded with horse they don't know. 

Surely there is a better way...these horse deserve a happy retirement, or at least humane euthanasia. The stress and panic is so evident on their faces. Where have their owners gone too??? Where is their comfy stall? Why no food or water? What is happening. 


It is depressing me...so many horses gone. Every week. Barrel horses. Dressage horses. Trail horses. Driving horses. They are all there, abandoned.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Not saying some of the horses don't end up in Mexico but a lot of todays "kill buyers" are making way more money by playing on sympathies by putting that shipping date on their website. Then for every horse they sell to the public they have the funds to go buy about 3 or 4 more horses. A person is doing more good by going to the auction and out bidding the kill buyer.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@AnitaAnne I'm so sorry. This is exactly how I would feel if I had been confronted by that. You just wish you had all the land and all the money and you could just take them all and give them a good home. 

Exactly what you said, weanlings for sale: Why do people insist on breeding horses? Old timers: After a lifetime of service, this is the thanks you get?

For every one you buy, another one comes into the pipeline.

I know you can't unsee, but all I can say is you can just take care of the ones you can take care of, and make sure they have a good life. When I took my third horse, it really stretched me financially, I mean to the point where I've been dipping into savings, so there's no way I could take a fourth. I so wish that I could, just to save a life. Although he is probably one that would have ended up there eventually had I not taken him. I just have to give the best lives possible to the ones I have...

Having said all of that, if you are looking to buy a horse, maybe you COULD buy one of these guys and save their life. I would personally be afraid that the horse wouldn't be very rideable, though, if that's what you are looking for. I know people find gems all the time, and maybe you would get one, but maybe not.

Sorry, that was long-winded as usual. I just want to say I'm sorry, and I totally agree with you. To feel helpless in the face of so much suffering. To see innocent animals treated like that after humans decided they weren't worth it anymore. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

JCnGrace said:


> Not saying some of the horses don't end up in Mexico but a lot of todays "kill buyers" are making way more money by playing on sympathies by putting that shipping date on their website. Then for every horse they sell to the public they have the funds to go buy about 3 or 4 more horses. A person is doing more good by going to the auction and out bidding the kill buyer.


I think this is a common misperception. They send out the horses straight to slaughter. They are a business. He is most likely grossing 20k per month. 200-300 horses per month. 

Buying from a kill pen doesn't give the business more money to buy more horses. They have plenty of money. 

He has been getting a lot of people asking him to give these horses a chance, so he put them in one group, 14 head, mares and geldings, you have to buy them all. $9100 which is $650 each, and he states less money than he could get at the slaughterhouse. He also stated, yall wouldn't even know I even had these horses if I didn't post the video. 


Its a real kill pen. They buy up horses that don't sell. He isn't out bidding people. No need to. See lots of Amish horses on the site, work horses. He has 4 Belgian's right now too. 


Its not one of those places that keep horses and try to sell them for lots of money. He ships out Friday because Saturday he will go buy more from another auction. Ships out Monday too, maybe even daily. Keeping the horses cost money.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

The real issue is why are the people sending the horses to an auction house, with no minimum bid? A lot of these are nice, ridable horses. 

Horses live a long time. Many of us on the HF keep their horses for a lifetime, or close to it. 


Many others don't. I've known people that sell the horses every fall so they don't have to feed them over the winter. My farrier buys horses like this in fall, and sticks them in a big pasture. Come spring he sells them because as he says, spring comes and people get their refund check, that's the time to sell a horse. 

Young people headed to collage, sell their horses. Horses that are "outgrown" get sold. Some sell because it is too much work. 

Plus the number of riders seem to be going down. 


There is some overbreeding too. Too many horses for the population that rides.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> @AnitaAnne I'm so sorry. This is exactly how I would feel if I had been confronted by that. You just wish you had all the land and all the money and you could just take them all and give them a good home.
> 
> Exactly what you said, weanlings for sale: Why do people insist on breeding horses? Old timers: After a lifetime of service, this is the thanks you get?
> 
> ...


I can't afford them either, thus the helplessness I feel. I have three, one has been retired for 6 years. Should I have euthanized her instead? To make room for another needy horse? 

She is a sweet girl, and absolutely easy to take care of. Neat in her stall, has never needed the vet. Keeps her blankets intact. Has arthritis. I love her dearly. She will never be sold. 


I can only help some, and that ones I have are the ones that will live out their lives in the best environment I can provide.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AnitaAnne, I'm not going to tell you not to buy from one of those guys but have your eyes WIDE open and be ready to deal with a bunch of stuff they don't show. The vast majority of those "Deadline XXXXXX" horses will not be sent to Mexico, those KBs know they'll make more by holding people emotionally hostage with that threat than just by selling them. They have ALL been passed through some nasty conditions, exposed to Gawd only knows what, so yeah, you can buy them cheap but that's only the start. Once you buy the horse, you or someone you contract with, needs to go pick them up (and they want them gone yesterday or they charge outrageous daily board) and then they need to go into a strict USDA type Quarantine for at least 60 days. If they aren't coughing, slinging snot and dripping pus when picked up, give 'em 3-7 days and they will be so have about $750-1000 for a vet bill. 

There are a lot of "KB Angels" groups out there, they'll do fund raisers to get those horses bought and help with transport. They will not help pay for vet, QT or training when you figure out you bought a pig in a poke and it's way more than you want/need to/can handle. I've gone and picked up horses at those places, most are hell on earth for the horses, and they to a man have the horses all grouped together, sick & well, feeding off the same round bales (if they feed them), drinking from the same water. If they're somewhat decent, they'll have yard help to help you catch and load your horse, or a squeeze type chute so that you can back your trailer up to it and run the horse in, if you can't catch the horse. 

The horse you see in the pic may or may not be drugged for the handling and riding portion. The horse may or may not be doped on pain killer right up to their eyeballs to show them as "sound". The horse you see in the pic, may or may not be the horse you get if you live at some distance and can't go yourself to verify that the horse they load is the horse you bought. The horse you see in the pic may or may not be in the condition you see in the pic (if they look in good flesh), most will be underweight if not downright emaciated. Please notice I'm not saying that these horses are no good, I wouldn't be so presumptuous. I'm just saying be VERY careful in your dealings with these kind of people, they will swindle you so quick your head will spin. 

If you live close enough to go to the yard yourself, look around and see how many horses have several (a lot 2, some will have 3 or 4) of the USDA/APHIS Auction Tags on them. Those horses have been shipped around, bought at one auction by the KB, didn't get "rescued" and so were sent through another auction after awhile, in hopes a new group in a new location will step up and pay the ransom. The horses can go through several auctions, be bought by different KBs and put through the "rescue groups" that have aligned with the KBs. 

While I agree with you that there's a special level in Hades for owners who knowingly drop off pregnant mares and/or young stock, it's not illegal for the owners to drop them at auction for sale. There are regulations that state which animals can be shipped to slaughter and which ones are considered "fragile" and unfit to ship. The youngsters mostly fit that criteria.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

For what its worth, I didn't start this thread to get into a big heavy debate r/t slaughterhouses. 

I started this thread because I am questioning myself, Am I doing enough? Could I do more? What can I do? 

Should I buy those two little Rocky Mountain fillies? Or just one of them? Do I have the time and energy to give those little fillies a good start in life? 


What can _I_ do...that is the issue.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

This is way more important than the fate of Mustangs that are at least being cared for. But that's just me. So far there doesn't seem to be the public interest to get previous bills passed.


https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2020...-slaughter-and-limiting-exports-gets-hearing/



https://www.wtsp.com/article/life/a...ghter/67-3dd300be-cc4e-4580-b70a-bb863ae53721


https://tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com...from-canada-to-japan-to-make-specialty-sushi/


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

At least if you bought the fillies, you wouldn't have to deal with someone else's training mistakes. As opposed to the older horses, who probably have years of bad experiences behind them, and (I would guess) would have a harder time trusting someone new. and might have many bad habits they had picked up along the way.

I sent you a PM.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

All true @Dreamcatcher Arabians all true. Deplorable conditions. Going to get sick is a given. No food for most of them, no water either. 

The ones in stalls get some hay and water. Those are the ones they try to sell as usable. They still have deadlines. Prices are cheap on this site. Definitely just selling at meat prices. 

There are two pregnant Arab mares, two very poor condition 3yr old Paso Fino mares, and the two RM yearling fillies. He addresses this issue, states they will all ship out. 


A health nightmare for any horse going thru a kill pen. 

This guy has a buddy that has a "boarding barn" where you can send the horses until they are picked up. They have individual stalls made out of panels. Under a roof. Have a whole list of services available, and _strongly_ recommend a health exam when the horses arrive. 

I have one pasture, and no way could I quarantine any new horses coming in. Thus my frustration and despair


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

AnitaAnne said:


> I have one pasture, and no way could I quarantine any new horses coming in. Thus my frustration and despair


Could you buy some panels and make a round pen? It wouldn't be great, but it would surely be better than the conditions they are currently in.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I would need a place to put the horse(s) once home. There is a vet that boards horses so maybe they could stay there for a week...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> Could you buy some panels and make a round pen? It wouldn't be great, but it would surely be better than the conditions they are currently in.


I have a large stall empty, maybe could run some electric fencing off of it to make a little pen. They should all stay away from the electric fencing.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Hondo said:


> This is way more important than the fate of Mustangs that are at least being cared for. But that's just me. So far there doesn't seem to be the public interest to get previous bills passed.
> 
> 
> https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2020...-slaughter-and-limiting-exports-gets-hearing/
> ...


Many of those draft horses are being bred for the slaughter market. They gain weight easily on grass and hay, and are heavy weight, so sell for more. The ones going to Japan are kept free of drugs, and the are sold at very high cost. 

The others, going thru kill pens, are not free of drugs. Two in this group have an eye missing. These horses have been doctored and handled. It is obvious watching them on the videos. They stand quietly, trusting the human waving the flag at them. They do not understand he wants them to move away from the flag (at least it is not a cattle prod). They are broke horses. 

Sending these old horses to the slaughterhouse means they are not going to be drug free. I personally think Europeans buying the horse meat from overseas are foolish to be consuming these horses. Their countries are much more regulated. If they saw the conditions these horses are in, plus most of them obviously sick...I would think they would refuse the meat.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> He also stated, yall wouldn't even know I even had these horses if I didn't post the video.
> He ships out Friday because Saturday he will go buy more from another auction. Ships out Monday too, maybe even daily. Keeping the horses cost money.


KBs are not dumb - they (or their associated "angel" groups) post those pictures and videos online because they know they can get more money by emotional blackmail than from the slaughterhouse. And even better if the KB gets his money, then his buddy the hauler and "quarantine facility" gets some too! 

KBs are indeed shipping horses _somewhere_, but the ones you see plastered online are most likely going down the road to the next auction in the hopes that set of local rescue groups will have more success. I have seen this first hand locally with horses going through New Holland. Moore's will make a point to pick up anything resembling an arab or a morgan or anything a special color, even if they are bidding against others. Why? Because those are the horses with the most active online angel groups and/or the flashy colors sell better. The horses go on their website and if they aren't bailed fast enough, they are then sent down the road to was-Camelot-now-Cranbury for another try.



AnitaAnne said:


> What can _I_ do...that is the issue.


The best thing you can do is stop looking at those websites. If you decide you want another horse and want to save one, go to whatever auction is closest to you and bid directly. 



AnitaAnne said:


> I would need a place to put the horse(s) once home. There is a vet that boards horses so maybe they could stay there for a week...


A week isn't enough. You need at least 60 days, but 90 is better. A horse coming off a KB lot _will_ be sick and you sure don't need it making the rest of your herd sick too.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

@AnitaAnne, I know how frustrating it is to see those horses. I have a few farms within a very close radius of where I live that buy/sell meat horses - and the horse processing plant is just South of the city I work in. 

I have gone to the local auction once (to buy tack); I left before the horses went through, but I did take a quick look at what horses were available. It was a complete mixed bag - of riding horses and stock that were completely untouched. 

The horse market is a tough one - I know of a few people who tried to sell horses privately and couldn't. And ended up having to take their horse to auction. I think in most cases if they put a reserve bid on them they ended up going to good homes. Not always the case though. 

If bills are passed to make it illegal to ship live horses from the States to Canada or Mexcio for slaughter, then what happens to all the unwanted horses? 

I am really against the live shipment of horses to Japan - those horses ship out from our local airport. It's gross how many they cram into a crate - and these horses (for the most part) are bred specifically for this. 

I don't really blame the owners - sometimes someone is in a situation that they must sell their horses. I DO blame the uneducated owners who decide owning a horse would be cool but don't know a **** thing about it. I feel the same way about people who buy a puppy and don't realize how much work it is. 

But i ultimately blame the over-breeding of horses (whether backyard breeders, race horses, etc). The market is so saturated and they have to come from somewhere.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I think many of us feel the same way as you @AnitaAnne I have viewed the Sexton's website many times and even considered the 12 hour trip there to rescue some horse they have that caught my eye. The problem is that a horse catches my eye every week! Do some ship to slaughter - Yep - I bet they do. Do others just get shipped to another sale barn - yep I bet that happens too. I have to say that for a KB his horse prices are very reasonable. Most horses selling way under $1000 where there are others that are asking $1500 and up for the horses they have.

The horse industry is glutted - whether people believe it or not. And the biggest issue I see is lack of training. A well trained horse is usually worth something BUT a lot of areas have had very extreme weather the last couple of years. hay has been at premium prices and homes that used to feed 5 or 6 horses can only afford to feed 2 or 3 so they sell the one they think will get a good home. I have purchased a few horses out of loose pens (kill pens) and have purchased a few more horses from local auctions. some horses do get to good homes. What I find startling is that when looking at horse web sites with horses for sale that some horse people still ask $3000 - $4000 for a gaited trail horse when as you mentioned this one in TN always has gaited horses.

Take heart - you just purchased a horse - that had known issues (rain rot) and potentially saved her from a horrible fate. Until people wake up and breed responsibly there will always be a slaughter pipeline


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

AnitaAnne said:


> For what its worth, I didn't start this thread to get into a big heavy debate r/t slaughterhouses.
> 
> I started this thread because I am questioning myself, Am I doing enough? Could I do more? What can I do?
> 
> ...


I feel your pain.

I don’t know that anyone who loves horses couldn’t feel sorrow and frustration when they look at these sites.

I don’t think it helps that the cost of euthanasia is really expensive and that leaves people with horses that, for some reason, they can’t keep any more, resort to selling them to a dealer. 
Dealers will hang on to good ones for a while then put them through an auction if they don’t sell. The youngsters and the ‘no hopers’ tend to go straight to auction.

You can only do what you can do. You can’t save them all.

Donate to a genuine horse rescue when you’ve got spare cash maybe?

I can only give you the same advice that I’ve had to give myself - stop looking at those sites.
I’ve had to do the same with dog rescue sites.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

So, I come back from the barn after cleaning stalls, unloading feed and treating Lacy. She is such a sweet girl again. Followed me to the gate today. 

While there, I walked the area I could section off for those two fillies. Got a figure in my head of fence cost to put up, and a place to put a round bale for them (under cover). Could have everything set up in a week. They would have their own water tub, and a 12x12 stall to share. 

Got online to look up the guy's number and saw all these posts...

In my head, I know y'all are right, but in my heart I think these girls deserve a chance...

I do not want to risk my existing horses, no. I thought a week at the vet, with shots and worming, etc would be sufficient. My horses (don't know about Lacy) are vaccinated against strangles, which I would think is the most likely risk. That should show up in a week, shouldn't it? 

What else could they potentially be carrying? I thought being yearlings, they are at a high risk of picking up stuff, and of course these KP make no effort to protect the horses from anything contagious. 


Chivas is immunocompromised, and Lacy also r/t to her current issue with rain rot is also at higher risk. 


I would have to make a decision today, to set everything up. 


I realize the best thing I can do is quit looking at that site, but I can't seem to stop :frown_color:


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

carshon said:


> The horse industry is glutted - whether people believe it or not. And the biggest issue I see is lack of training. A well trained horse is usually worth something...


Thank you for pointing this out. As someone mentioned earlier, the Morgan people have a a big FB network, and man, do they get aggressive and downright nasty if anyone questions the role they play in perpetuating the kill pen industry by "bailing" registered Morgans. But so often on these rescue Facebook pages, I see posts offering horses in their teens that are barely halter broke. Not just needing a tuneup, but legitly over a decade old with no training whatsoever. Why? Why would you have a horse and allow that to happen? Why would you breed a horse with no plan to do anything with it? Why would you take a barely halter broken horse and spend years breeding it and then dump it with no skills? That makes me so angry.

@*AnitaAnne* , this is one area in which my only personal answer has been just to harden my heart and look away from the daily posts pleading for bail money. I am pretty confident three horses is also my limit, and I guess I feel good because my 3rd, Maggie, is a "forever free lease" to help out a recent college grad who was having trouble affording her. I don't think Maggie was in any risk of ending up at an auction, but by giving her a long term home, it definitely made things a little easier for her owner and she is happy as a clam in retirement. If/when at some point one of my two retirees goes on to greener pastures, my hope would be to find another local person who has an oldie who needs a cushy retirement home, to avoid starting that trip to the auction pipeline at all. 

That said, it's so hard though to see those sad, sad faces. And, I do know a few people who have ended up with a wonderful riding horse by making a smart "rescue," so the stories don't always end badly. But I guess I come down on the side of the people saying that participating in any way with the kill buyers, rather than intervening a step ahead of them, just perpetuates the system. It sucks no matter how you look at it.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

jaydee said:


> I feel your pain.
> 
> I don’t know that anyone who loves horses couldn’t feel sorrow and frustration when they look at these sites.
> 
> ...


You are right. Completely. I guess the difference with dogs is they are humanely PTS, and horses frequently aren't. 

Amazingly, when reading the prices at the "boarding barn" that will pick up these horses and hold them until pickup, I saw a cost for euthanasia listed. $115. Wonder what they do with the horses??? My costs, (with burial) here are much higher than that. 

May be quite a few that end up never leaving there. 


Anytime I hear someone say they can't afford to pts an animal, I say you can't afford to have an animal if you can't afford the medical bills. 


Which brings me to the issue that medical costs for 5 equines could get really high.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

It’s not always true that a well trained horse won’t end up with a meat buyer.

We’ve bought some really good horses and ponies from auction in the U.K. over the years that we were only bidding against the meat buyers for. Most of them had little quirks that could put some people off.

My little paint mare was bought by a dealer from a kill pen and then sold to me. I don’t know what someone had done to her to upset her attitude to people but in the past she’d had a good owner who’d put in all the training. It took a while to get her trust in humans back and many people wouldn’t have wanted to even try.

If someone has lost their job and run out of money then the horse is often the first thing to go and when the markets flooded there aren’t enough buyers to go round.


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## Sherian (Aug 28, 2012)

minimum 6 week quarantine IMHO Are the biting flies out in your area - you need 250 yds minimum for quarantine for EIA. Be prepared for strangles, respiratory viruses, worms, ringworm and lice. You may be buying a very large vet bill.



as to why horses end up there in the first place, some are someone's problem either crippled or crazy, some are cull from foal mills, some are a legal issue like divorce, death or back board, some are owners who had no choice - horse had to go now, and some are owners who just got sick and tired of dealing with the tire kickers and fruit bats that shop in the low to mid price range market. I have found some genuine diamonds in the rough at auctions and some lumps of coal.



good luck if you go thru with it


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Sherian said:


> minimum 6 week quarantine IMHO Are the biting flies out in your area - you need 250 yds minimum for quarantine for EIA. Be prepared for strangles, respiratory viruses, worms, ringworm and lice. You may be buying a very large vet bill.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Forgot about EIA. Lyme Ds would be another issue. The other ones I could deal with easily enough, especially if they went to the vet first. 

Cannot do 250 yards at my place.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

This is how Daughter ended up with Sally and me, Outback through Sally. She gets to looking at the kill pen groups on FB and then her heart starts to hurt... and while I applaud her compassion, it's led to some really poor decisions in horse buying. A lot of the videos she shows me of some fancy bred AQHA or APHA horses... youngsters and mature horses... have something going on that they're lamed up or badly sickle hocked, something like that. Usually it's the slightest gimp on the back end, one side or the other.

Some are just broodies getting older and at the end of their usefulness as baby makers for a more industrial breeding operation.

Some are retired. 

I saw two BLM mustangs at one of the ones here in my state... no one had bothered to gentle them down enough to get the rope and tag off their neck. It was grown into the skin, the manes were matted, they were filthy, bags of bones, hooves grown out so long they were curling. For those two, I contacted the BLM agent that helped us with adopting Whiskey. I never heard what was done about it - sometimes people buy three strike horses and take them right to the auction or kill pen, and the BLM folks will tell you if that's why you're there to adopt or buy a three strike horse, you need to go on down the road, they don't want you there... but I'm sure people lie every day about their intentions. (There's also someone somewhere that I can't say because I'm not going to dox them... but T, my friend got a call to help a neighbor who knew nothing about horses go pick up two 'rescue' horses from an actual 'horse rescue' in N Texas. T gets there... they are BLM MUSTANGS and not even titled, wild wild wild... still dragging lead ropes and wearing halters. Person was trying to sell them as rescues and said no title needed. Uh. YEAH. Yeah you do. They were also reported by us. Something must have been done because the CL ads for the 'rescue' vanished about a week later and never turned up again.)

Back to the Kill Pens - most are fake these days. They have no intention of shipping, and they will cull out the Good Ones with papers, and sell them separately for huge sums of money. The ones they don't want get ran through their 'kill pen' groups on social media, and then they set up bail for them - you pay X amount (usually 60% or so) and then they talk other people into donating the difference by tricking them into believing this horse is about to be shipped to Mexico and endure unspeakable horrors.


Sally came from the real deal. Daughter said they rolled in and there were lots crammed with babies, yearlings, pregnant mares (Can't ship preggo mares though). Arabians, TWH, QH, TB, you name it... I think there were some appys too. Said it was the saddest thing she'd ever seen.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

jaydee said:


> It’s not always true that a well trained horse won’t end up with a meat buyer.


This is very true. For most of these horses, its a case of just getting older. I saw a really nice mare on there first, very well trained, 15 yrs old and 16H. He was only asking $975 for her, and she was shown ridden on the video. Really nice walk and trot, nice swinging tail. He said trained dressage, hunter-jumper, all that stuff. Sound. 

The timing was off, as her deadline was Friday and I saw her on a Thursday afternoon. Got a sick feeling in my stomach when her video vanished...that is when they are gone. No video, no horse. 

I would have bought her. Pretty chestnut too. Can't understand someone sending a horse like that to auction with no reserve, giving the KB the opportunity to take this horse to slaughter, when she could have been a great learner horse. On that one, I blame the seller for putting her in that situation. 



jaydee said:


> If someone has lost their job and run out of money then the horse is often the first thing to go and when the markets flooded there aren’t enough buyers to go round.


The markets are flooded. Very hard to sell even well trained horses, once they get over 15yrs. I just think the supply FAR exceeds the demand. 

Not very many young people riding anymore. It is expensive and time consuming, and most parents barely have enough time as it is. 


The culture is changing, even here in the country. Farms are being turned into 3-5 acre estate lots with McMansions on them.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

@AnitaAnne - not necessarily true on being shipped just because the vid vanished. I've found locally that's because they were sold separate from the FB group... they WANT you to believe she shipped though. 

Personally, if I just wanted a pasture potato to pour money into and give them a soft landing (I have one - AJ), I'd buy one from someone that just wanted the old fart or old heifer out of their pasture, but had a good nature. I'd cut the middle man out. That's the ONLY way to put a hurt on the fake kill buyers, IMO. 

BTW, Texas and Louisiana has been shutting the fake ones down. They've taken a strong stance against the fake kill pens because ones that don't sell have been known to be left to starve and die, but also because of the fraud inherent to the fake kill pens.


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

went to an auction with a friend once. my goal was to talk him out of any horse he wanted to bid on

while there heard 2 ladies talking one was helping her friend and said she's bought some at auction 1 out of 5 turn out to be something decent. most of the "riding" horses were going for 1,000 that means spending 5K on the purchase to get a "decent" horse plus time, vet, feed, and farrier 

we only saw 2 in the kill pen come through the ring before we got the heck out of there but at least those 2 you wouldn't even dream of buying to try and rehab


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> @AnitaAnne - not necessarily true on being shipped just because the vid vanished. I've found locally that's because they were sold separate from the FB group... they WANT you to believe she shipped though.
> 
> Personally, if I just wanted a pasture potato to pour money into and give them a soft landing (I have one - AJ), I'd buy one from someone that just wanted the old fart or old heifer out of their pasture, but had a good nature. I'd cut the middle man out. That's the ONLY way to put a hurt on the fake kill buyers, IMO.
> 
> BTW, Texas and Louisiana has been shutting the fake ones down. They've taken a strong stance against the fake kill pens because ones that don't sell have been known to be left to starve and die, but also because of the fraud inherent to the fake kill pens.


This isn't a fake KP, its the real deal. She was sold or shipped. He doesn't keep them longer than the deadline, no exceptions. He only shows ridden the ones that were ridden at the auction. 

I dearly hope she was sold instead of sent to slaughter. Her video when down Thursday night, so hopefully she was spared. 

We had a local KP here, and I visited his place a few times. He had drivers going out daily to slaughter, and drivers arriving with auction horses. He had a pretty nice set up with a round pen in the center on the main barn, and a separate barn with high dollar horses. Then he had a couple of paddocks with a few of the older horses in them. No over crowding like at some places. 

I looked at a very well broke black QH gelding, 12 or 13 at the time he had him priced at $1000 and I was looking for kids horse. We went to try him out and the owner saw he had a bowed tendon. Wouldn't let us ride and that horse was sold to slaughter. The guy had some integrity, in refusing to sell a damaged horse as a riding horse. 

Looked at a WB gelding there priced at 25k. Had a snotty nose so I didn't even try him. I couldn't see paying that for a horse from a KB. Now I don't have that kind of money! Divorce and career change will do that to a person...


Point being, some KB do have a sense of honesty, but still they are there to sell the horse, not keep horses. Its a business. They don't care where the horse goes. 


This one does not appear to be connected to any rescue group, and lists multiple hauler on his site.


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## CaliforniaDreaming (May 8, 2011)

I try and stay away from FB feeds on the kill pen horses. Every now and then, a friend will share, or someone in the AERC group will post some Arabs and I just about lose it. 2 horses is my absolute limit, I could do 3 only because one of my closest friends had had a stroke and ended up in nursing care so we parked her lame gelding down in self care for me to feed and clean, and she had enough finances to be able to pay his bills, and he colicked right at the end. I have a hard enough time following some rescue pages I support.

I just have to keep reminding myself that I can’t help every horse and that the most important horse I *can* help is my elderly DSLD mare. We almost put her down in 2018, but she rallied really well, she’s in a Davis study on DSLD so they tried some meds on her to see what might happen and she’s doing much better now. She’s gained weight this year, still has plenty of vim and vigor even if she’s fully retired and kicks up her heels after a good roll in the round pen. We’re letting her choose her time because she’s not showing any desire to shuffle off this mortal coil just yet. It’s hard to look at other horses and not want to help them personally, but I know I can’t, not if I’m committed to her.

After it’s time to finally let her go though, I’m hoping I can contribute a little more towards rescue efforts for an Arab rescue I like a lot, and hopefully help intercept a horse before they go to the auction or something.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

tim62988 said:


> went to an auction with a friend once. my goal was to talk him out of any horse he wanted to bid on
> 
> while there heard 2 ladies talking one was helping her friend and said she's bought some at auction 1 out of 5 turn out to be something decent. most of the "riding" horses were going for 1,000 that means spending 5K on the purchase to get a "decent" horse plus time, vet, feed, and farrier
> 
> we only saw 2 in the kill pen come through the ring before we got the heck out of there but at least those 2 you wouldn't even dream of buying to try and rehab


Auctions are tough places to buy horses. Have to be very experienced, and know the regulars. I am not that person. I find auctions to be very tough to deal with. 

What I was looking at was a pair of yearlings. Something with a future.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

We know a lady who lives near us that buys horses from the kill pens as a hobby. She had bred appaloosas all her life, really knows conformation, and has a keen instinct for a good horse. She checks the sites regularly and has them shipped to her from LA. The folks there know her, and sometimes contact her if they have an appropriate horse.

After she gets them, she gets them riding nicely and then sells them to good homes. She has gotten so well-known around here that people now contact her if they are needing a good horse.
@4horses got a dandy foxtrotter mare from this lady. She doesn't make any money from her hobby, but it gives her a lot of pleasure . . . and people who get her horses are happy too.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

knightrider said:


> We know a lady who lives near us that buys horses from the kill pens as a hobby. She had bred appaloosas all her life, really knows conformation, and has a keen instinct for a good horse. She checks the sites regularly and has them shipped to her from LA. The folks there know her, and sometimes contact her if they have an appropriate horse.
> 
> After she gets them, she gets them riding nicely and then sells them to good homes. She has gotten so well-known around here that people now contact her if they are needing a good horse.
> 
> @4horses got a dandy foxtrotter mare from this lady. She doesn't make any money from her hobby, but it gives her a lot of pleasure . . . and people who get her horses are happy too.


Does she want a couple of yearling RM fillies? I will ship them to her...


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

After doing some number crunching and reading all the advice, I think I will have to pass on those cute little fillies. I just can't make it work with quarantine on two horses. Would like them to stay together, as they are so cute like that. 

Breaks my heart though. 

Going to try to stay away from that site. Apparently KP horses only seem like a good bargin. Once all the expenses' are added up, they come with a hefty price tag. 

Dang it. I really liked those two fillies


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> After doing some number crunching and reading all the advice, I think I will have to pass on those cute little fillies. I just can't make it work with quarantine on two horses. Would like them to stay together, as they are so cute like that.
> 
> Breaks my heart though.
> 
> ...


Last time I did a quarantine for 2 horses that came from a KP, by the time all was said and done the lady who bought them could have bought a couple of National Champions, broke to ride, you name it, for the money she spent on 2 horses that had no papers, no identity and no training. She eventually gave away one of the horses who was more than she could handle. She's still got one but can't ride him or anything.


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## Fuddyduddy1952 (Jun 26, 2019)

My wife lobbies for horse rescue groups. You can search "horse rescue near me", she did that a few years ago and there is one three miles away. We're in a rural area with lots of horses around.
As with anything there are good and bad people, the bad ones are only concerned with financial profit.
Every day we get mail now from lobby groups. Most simply ask for a petition signature. Many will send a stamped envelope. She just now said one of the most meaningful things you can do is after doing research (internet, books, talking to people, etc.) is to write your Congress person. An actual letter means more than email. Signatures really help.
Like everything it's supply and demand. As long as there's a "market" (no pun intended) for horse meat there is money to be made. Passing legislation to make it illegal raising, buying, selling horses for meat, imposing hefty fines and imprisonment for doing so is key. 
Most people eat meat. If they had to kill that animal themselves I guarantee there would be a lot more vegetarians.


Sent from my SM-S320VL using Tapatalk


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

cbar said:


> If bills are passed to make it illegal to ship live horses from the States to Canada or Mexcio for slaughter, then what happens to all the unwanted horses?



Same thing that happens to unwanted cats and dogs. Euthanization. Then to a land fill or a zoo. Not free but not real expensive either.


https://equimed.com/news/general/wh...humanely-euthanizing-and-disposing-of-a-horse


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

When I lived in CA, I worked with an exotic feline breeding compound. They were networked with most US zoos and kept track of endangered cats' genetics to ensure diversity in the gene pool. Zoos sent them cats to be bred with other zoos cats. They would receive donation offers of horses as food for the cats. To ensure the meat is safe for the felines the horse has to be alive and drug free for 45 days. 

I would free board, feed and care for these horses for their last 45 days. Some, I would tell them need euthanasia as it would be inhumane to keep them drug free. They listened to me. Some were really nice horses. It was hard to take a few of them to their butcher because they were sweet and trusting, but they weren't mine and the cats needed to eat. At least they got good treatment from me and a humane death, and served a worthwhile purpose.

I try not to look at KP sites because I see what comes from them. A friend here is a rescue addict. Problem is she doesn't have the eye to get good horses, and doesn't have the time or skill to train up the good ones she does get. She has 35 head on 10 acres. There are 2 of those I may take this Spring to train and find homes for. She brought 3 in last year after they'd spent 6 weeks at a quarantine facility - and ended up with 14 horses having to be treated for strangles. She lost a nice little yearling to rescue 2 ugly, mean tempered pregnant old unhandled mares.

I bought Tango from a rescue when he was 3. He was a captured feral horse with minimal handling. He's become a good horse because I know what I'm doing. If the rescue hadn't taken him, he would've been culled or run through auction because ferals aren't protected like mustangs. 

I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I don't like the treatment I see from KBs, and I know they play the auction shell game to make a profit. I also don't like that we've closed down US Equine slaughterhouses since they were at least regulated by the FDA and provided more humane death. Packing horses tight into a truck for 2 days or more on the road to God's know what.... It's a complicated and emotional issue and I just don't know the answers...


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

This is so heart breaking. For once I am happy I live in a country that doesn’t have too many horses.
@AnitaAnne - it will be easier to stay away from that site if you block it on your router. I had to do that for myself with dog rescue sites and it worked. I now only rescue dogs I personally come across (and that is way too much but I couldn’t live with myself if I just walked by a dog in need). I wish there was a solution for the overbreeding issue.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Change said:


> I also don't like that we've closed down US Equine slaughterhouses since they were at least regulated by the FDA and provided more humane death.



I largely agree with this when the option is left open to ship them out of the US for slaughter. The intent of the law was, I feel sure, was to stop the slaughter of horses. Why the loophole that was missed has not been closed to fulfill the intent of the law I do not understand.


The "largely" I mentioned is that yes, with the FDA involved, there was a 'more' humane death. But I'm inclined to believe that horses cannot be slaughtered in a slaughter plant humanely.


This from a person that was raised in an area where there were a lot more draft horses working the land than tractors and no one thought anything about sending horses to slaughter.


What can I say? Back then no one, or not many at least, thought much about a lion spending it's entire life pacing a concrete floor back and forth in front of steel bars.


I was called 'chicken hearted' back then. Guess I still am.


Job in CA sounds like one a horse person could easily burn out on.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

@Hondo - in CA, I had a regular full time job and also raised and trained QHs and Paints. Working with the cat farm was my way to help support them AND the horses donated to them as cat food. Lame horses were treated holistically with a vet's guidance to keep them comfortable. Horses that couldn't be kept comfortable without drugs were humanely euthanized by the vet. These were donated animals owned by the cat farm. All I could do was ensure they had 45 good days. If I didn't, who knows what their last days might have been.

My Mom bred German Shepherd Dogs when I was young. We fed the pregnant and lactating females a lb of raw horse meat each day. That was back when you could get it. Maybe that memory colors my opinion on US slaughterhouses. I don't see any reduction in how many horses to go slaughter; just the increased abuse they suffer on the way.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

@AnitaAnne I was a member of many kill pen groups on FB. I left every single group just to heart breaking to see so many horses standing in over crowded pens.

I Know I can't afford to be rescuing horses from kill pens. So I no longer look at any kill pen horses. I have my two boys ,and do the very best I can for them. That's the best I can do take care of my horses see to there needs. 

Won't risk there health well being bringing in a kill pen horse. Not worth the risk or heart break. I don't and won't look at any kill pen site just not going there...I can't help those horses. And know my limit on what I can afford.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I appreciate everyone's input. I am still not sure what I can or should be doing, but I have decided not to rescue those two little fillies. I hope someone does, and have prayed about it. 

I did not intend this to be a discussion on slaughterhouses. There are already many threads started on that issue.

I realize threads digress and with the topic it is easy to do, but this is about the Kill Pen horses, and how the kill pens operate. How the horses are treated there, the diseases they encounter. Why it is so difficult, and expensive, to rescue any of them. Why so many horse go to kill pens, and if there is a way to intervene before they arrive.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AnitaAnne said:


> I realize threads digress and with the topic it is easy to do, but this is about the Kill Pen horses, and how the kill pens operate. How the horses are treated there, the diseases they encounter. Why it is so difficult, and expensive, to rescue any of them. Why so many horse go to kill pens, and if there is a way to intervene before they arrive.


Most of the kill pens or I should say Kill Buyer's Pens, are pretty much no frills. Depending on size of pen and how many horses are in there, they may have 1 or more big round bale in for everyone to eat off of. There's no separating out low horses who get run off, they just get thin. Most of them don't feed grain to your average KP horse. 

Some, like one of Joe Simon's operation down the street from me, are pretty clean and have lots of room for the horses to move around and graze. For Joe, it's a business. He can't sell sick, skinny or lame horses for any kind of money, so it's in his best interest to fatten them up and get them healthy. He flips more horses than he ships these days. 

That doesn't mean any horse I pick up from there doesn't go immediately into a 60 day (minimum) quarantine. They do. Of the 2 quarantine horses I picked up, the one from Joe's looked the best and sounded good and in 3 days was the sickest. 

The 2nd came from the 7th level of hell, a SE OK KP that was a pig pen. Actually, the pigs might have revolted. The place was a pit. They used a pic from heck I don't know, 1942, to market that mare. She was stunning and looked like she just stepped out of the pages of Arabian Horse World. In.the.ad. When I got down there, I wasn't sure she was going to make it home with me. She was a barely a 1 on the scale, there wasn't a bone I couldn't see easily and she was SICK. Slinging snot, coughing, running a fever. I called her new owner and asked if she even wanted me to pick the mare up. She did, so I loaded her up and called my vet from 4 hrs away and told her, "I don't know if she's going to still be alive once we hit home but if she is, I'm gonna need you ASAP.". God bless that woman, she was in my front yard when we pulled up. We got a good heavy blanket on the mare, vitals done and antibiotics administered along with some Banamine for fever. 

She responded well to treatment, ended up having ulcers, so we treated for those too. Dewormed her a couple of times to get her worm load under control and threw hay and concentrated feed and vitamins at her 24/7 for 120 days before she was deemed well enough to ship on to her final destination. The first guy got better enough to go home, though he was being treated for some kind of crud for 3 or 4 months AFTER he spend 60 days with me. Her vet bills on these 2...........ay yi yi! #1 was halter broke and easy to handle, plus just a super calm natured fellow. #2 was feral. I got her halter broke and lead line broke and got her doing some ground work. Got the farrier out just before she left for home and got her fronts done. I could pick up her hinds very briefly but she wasn't having any part of the farrier picking those up. Got her loading and unloading from the trailer, sanely and got her over all to relax from a 10 on the "OMIGOD OMIGOD" scale to about 6-7 most of the time. She's the one the gal had to give away. At the end of her stay she had gone from 2 hours of walking her down (as skinny and sick as she was) to about 5 mins or less FOR ME. Anyone else.......well. 

I think I've answered your "Why is it so difficult and expensive to rescue them?" in the above paragraphs. The get shuffled around, no protection from other horses if they are low on the pole, barely enough food to keep body and soul together and in many cases not even that. A lot of the guys who run those KPs are SCUM and that's being generous. The horses are exposed to other horses from all over the country, so they have no immune defenses built up to things that are common in another area and never seen here. Strangles is pretty much endemic and they care nothing for quarantine. Most of the time they don't have the basic paperwork, no Coggins, no Vaccine history, no idea if they've ever been dewormed and most are super in need of remedial farrier work. So, not only do you have to basically start over on the basic care things, then you have to treat whatever illness(es) they're carrying, you need a place that will do a STRICT quarantine (NOT the bro in law of the KP guy who will "QT" them for 30 days for $350. That kind of QT keeps them on the lot with other KP horses, still swappin' snot and spit. You need an USDA certified QT facility or one that isn't certified but knows how to do it by the book and does it. That kind of facility is not cheap, there's a HUGE amount of physical work and paper work involved in a REAL QT.), count on having to deworm them in small doses several times before the vet gives you the ok to do a full dose, then there's the teeth. They almost always need their teeth done on top of all the other vet work they're needing. They're pretty much treated like Widgets, nothing personal, strictly business. And frequently no good business either. 

How can we intervene? Try to reach out to people who are liquidating their herds. Try to get them to let someone help market those horses before they get dropped off at auction. Go out and take some pics of their herd so they can show what they're trying to sell. Help them get the horses' paperwork in order and up to date. Foster from a clean herd, if you can. Offer to halter break and teach to lead, if you're capable to do it without getting hurt. Help round them up and loaded when the day comes that they're going to their new home(s). Sometimes these kind of horses have not been on a trailer since before they were weaned and they need special loading. Above all don't be judgmental. Frequently these owners are just in over their heads. Keep an eye open for herds near you where the owner is getting elderly and might be ready to let go of some horses, if they think they can get good homes. 

Stay away from those emotional hostage taker's sites. Those horses are frequently there for a very good reason. And it won't be disclosed, I promise.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

AnitaAnne said:


> I did not intend this to be a discussion on slaughterhouses. Why so many horse go to kill pens, and if there is a way to intervene before they arrive.



I understand what you're saying but I just don't see how there could be a discussion about kill pens without slaughter houses as that is the destination for kill pen horses. (other than the trickery mentioned)


My firm belief and opinion is that as long as there is a pipeline to slaughter, there will be killpens and kill buyers. If the avenue to slaughter is finally and entirely closed, the owners of unwanted horses will be forced to look for another option, euthanasia, finding someone that wants the horse, or keeping it.


In the case of keeping the horse abusively in terms of care, health, and feeding, there are laws about that already but those could need review in some instances.


Another firm belief and opinion is that breeding horses just to see what will come out with plans to get rid of the baby if it doesn't turn out would be reduced. Significantly even. I can name at least 6 horses that I've known personally, petted, groomed, trimmed some, etc. that were born on just that premise and will likely wind up in a kill pen.


The owners, whom I also know, would be very reluctant to do this type of breeding if they thought they'd be faced with "keep it or kill it yourself".


If slaughter were closed without loopholes, a new more humane pipeline would have to be figured out.


I agree that just yanking the FDA inspectors was a disaster for the poor horses as it created the kill pens as they now exist which is the topic of the thread.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

AnitaAnne said:


> This isn't a fake KP, its the real deal. She was sold or shipped. He doesn't keep them longer than the deadline, no exceptions. He only shows ridden the ones that were ridden at the auction.


Well. That's unspeakably sad. I hope she was sold and he just took the video off without explanation... but again... he could have indeed sold her, took it down, in the hopes it twangs the heartstrings of the next person on the fence of buying one. I put nothing past kill penners, real or fake... to make a buck.

Sadly, until we can convince people it's better to reopen slaughter houses here in the US (not gonna happen - I've read the comments on various horse videos and cow videos on FB and elsewhere and people are so far removed from reality when it comes to large animals it's just insane!) where the treatment of the horses can be monitored and somewhat controlled by regulation, kill pens, real and fake, are going to continue to thrive and unwanted horses will continue to pile up.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

Cats and dogs have been both in service to humans and companions for a way long time. Looking back over history, the same is true for horses.


I believe it is wrong to classify horses with herds of sheep, herds of goats, herds of cows, pens full of pigs. Those are livestock. Horses are more than that and for the most part always have been. They were not handled in herds. They worked, and still work, individually side by side with with humans, just like dogs do.


Horses do not deserve to be crated and trucked to another country for slaughter. They do not deserve to be slaughtered in the US at all. The deserve at the very least a painless euthanasia.


I strongly oppose reopening horse slaughter houses in the US. I strongly support H.R. 961 which would make it illegal to ship horses to Canada or Mexico for slaughter.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

@AnitaAnne, I have loved horses (and animals in general) since before I can remember. When circumstances have allowed I've tried to honor my 4-legged friends by giving a home to one of their brethren in need. I've felt fortunate that I've been able to do that on occasion but it's not practical for everyone to be able to do the same.

For those that can I always offer this advise. 

1) do not expect this horse to be anything but a pasture ornament. Count it as a pleasant surprise if the horse turns out to be of sound mind and body. If you want a riding horse buy one that is currently a riding horse and save the rescue/rehab thing as an addition to the one you already have. Do not depend on being able to sell them after rehab. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't so it's best to plan on keeping them. 

2) have money and time to spare.

3) be prepared to euthanize. Whether that's because of a broken body or a broken mind if they can't be rehabbed you have to be ready to put them or have them put down. You can't do any good for the fixable ones if your seriously maimed or dead or broke from dumping money into a lost cause. And it's just not right to pass them along.

The best way to find these horses are to put feelers out. Vets, farriers, feed mills, tack shops are places that hear of owners desperate to find homes for a horse they can no longer afford or have aged and are no longer healthy enough to care for it. Low end auctions too but be prepared for the need to do a strict quarantine.

All that is cautionary tell but I've never regretted a single one I took in. Not that it was always happy endings but the ones that bloomed made it all worth it.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

JCnGrace said:


> @AnitaAnne, I have loved horses (and animals in general) since before I can remember. When circumstances have allowed I've tried to honor my 4-legged friends by giving a home to one of their brethren in need. I've felt fortunate that I've been able to do that on occasion but it's not practical for everyone to be able to do the same.
> 
> For those that can I always offer this advise.
> 
> ...


Sally, Outback's momma, is the ONLY kp horse that came on our place. I'm 100% sure she didn't get a happy ending... but her baby did. She was just too far gone, mentally, to salvage and it's sad - somewhere along the way she was either ignored, mishandled, or abused, or just allowed to be pig headed ignorant so long as she was a baby factory. I still suspect she was a herd reduction mare, and at 16, entering a stage in her life where she might start being hit or miss on producing foals, so... away with her to the KP. 

But that's just what I imagine her life was like. Who knows - could have been a dabbling back yard breeder with no plan and no way to feed her. Could have been an accidental exposure to a stallion that could have produced a foal with genetic malfunctions, just sold Sally off and was done with it. We will never know.

I just know so far, Outback has been the best trade I've ever made - traded a little kid's saddle to daughter for Outback... and it's kinda shady because I bought the saddle with the sole intent of giving it to babygirl anyway... but I think we all kinda know my daughter doesn't want to take the time to teach a young horse the right way... It was worth the shady dealings to get her labeled as 'mine'.

For Outback alone, I am thankful to Sally, and wherever she is - I hope she forgives us for not being able to 'fix' her.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

OTTB seem to have a pretty good outcome, and are popular. Not sure how many TB wind up in a kill pen directly off the track, but it does happen. 

Friends of mine purchased three TB from a lady out in Arizona. She would go to the local tract and speak to the owners about selling cheaply for a good home. She would find horses for people that were good natured and sound for riding. The horses would leave the track at age seven, and the lucky ones that had new homes to go to sometimes left right after winning a race. 

My friends only paid $800/horse, and she delivered them for another $200. 

She couldn't save them all, but rehomed a lot of them. Most of the owners were ok with the low prices to find them a home.


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## WildAbtHorses (Jul 9, 2019)

What an ugly term, it would be great if there was no need for "Kill Buyers." 

Through perseverance and persistence, we educate and engage all Americans to help resolve this heartwrenching and unnecessary cruelty.

My vote, if you have the means yes, save them.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

WildAbtHorses said:


> What an ugly term, it would be great if there was no need for "Kill Buyers."
> 
> Through perseverance and persistence, we educate and engage all Americans to help resolve this heartwrenching and unnecessary cruelty.
> 
> My vote, if you have the means yes, save them.


Thank you, but it is too late for these fillies. They are gone :frown_color: Only have a few days to rescue from kill buyers...

Right now there is a 7 yr old TWH for $700 that belonged to friends of his, he said the wife couldn't ride anymore (some health condition) so sent the horse to him! So very sad. A nice riding horse in his *Prime*, sent to a kill buyer! Heartbreaking


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## MajorSealstheDeal (Jan 4, 2011)

Coming from an area that is predominately QH and Paint, it shocks me that broke gaited horses end up at the KB. It is very hard to find cheap, well broke gaited horses here. That said, we also do not have a huge market for gaited horses either, and our market is just as over saturated in Canada as it is in the States. When people call me looking for gaited horses, they want seasoned, well broke, and smooth. A walker with 90 days on it just doesn't turn around for these buyers.

We receive quite a few horses that were purchased at auction, where the client bid against the KB. The newest batch includes 3 well broke horses and one halter broke registered morgan. 
Previously the client has sent a registered, well bred walker that was not broke, as well as a 15 year old gorgeous appaloosa mare who was incredibly well broke. These are the tip of the ice burg, most have little to no education at all.

The worst part of this whole process was learning how many babies are run through auction only to be bid on by the KB.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

There are just too many horses being bred and not enough homes for them. 

Horrible, I agree to see the babies go to the KB. Or really any of them. The TWH was described as white, and hooves need shoes. I suspect that was the real reason the horse was sold; because he had soft, white feet. He might have been a cream, but anyway light colored gaited horses are not very popular. I nearly called about him, but I am full with the three I have. I could fit a forth horse, but time and money for 4 I can't do. 

He was very smooth looking. His ad went down the next night, so hopefully is in a better home now. Also were two QH, both very well trained, came from same home. A 25 yr old buckskin and a 15 yr old chestnut. Their ads went down earlier than the deadline too, hopefully someone bought both of them, as they were bonded.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

AnitaAnne said:


> Anytime I hear someone say they can't afford to pts an animal, I say you can't afford to have an animal if you can't afford the medical bills.
> 
> 
> Which brings me to the issue that medical costs for 5 equines could get really high.


Yes. People try to give me horses all the time. I have taken a couple free horses and could have had dozens more over the years.

People also offer me low cost pasture boarding, so I can have more horses. People I know look for lower cost boarding so they can put a horse or two out to pasture and have more horses.

What limits me personally is that I know horses don't stay in a static state. You can buy a healthy horse, even a young one, and they can have a major injury, sever a tendon or something and require expensive vet care. They can get Lyme disease, Cushing's, Laminitis, PSSM. They can lose all their teeth and need an expensive soaked diet. 

A friend of mine wants me to put my mare "out to pasture" on her farm so I can afford another riding horse. My mare is 29 with Cushing's. I need to watch her closely for white line disease and infections so I can catch them early. I need to make sure she takes her Prascend every day. I need to soak her pelleted vitamins so she doesn't get choke since her teeth are not good. If she begins losing weight, I will need to adjust her diet as she ages more. 

A person might think a young horse will not have problems, but although there is less risk, there are no guarantees. I personally won't take on more horses than I can care for if they become injured or ill. A person might think they could sell the horse to a good home if their finances changed, but an injured young horse is no more sellable than an old horse. Especially if the condition is permanent. And it's not always a good decision to put down a young horse with a permanent issue. Sometimes they can't be ridden but still are pain free and having a good life. Or they need expensive shoeing that keeps them sound, but makes them difficult to find a home for.

My opinion is that we can all do our part by taking the best care we can of the horses we have. If everyone did that, there would not be a kill buyer problem. At some point in your life, you will probably be ready for a new horse, as I have been at times, and then you can take on a needy horse with all their expenses and feel great about it. 
That doesn't mean we should feel like we ought to save all the needy horses we see. If you looked around your own community, you could probably find a new one every day. 

Many well meaning people "rescue" horses that end up needing to be rescued from them. Taking on more horses than you can care for and then being unable to give them the best care might be a worse feeling than knowing you can't help all the others out there. These ones are your responsibility, after all.


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