# Articles on riders weight effecting a horses soundness?



## ScharmLily (Nov 23, 2009)

I don't have an article, but I have heard that you should be no more than 30% of the horse's weight, including tack and gear. However, the ability of the rider and the conformation of the horse can cause this percentage to alter. I wouldn't go over the 30% rule, but some horses may not even be able to carry that load.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I had always heard it was 25% of the horses weight. A 1,000 pound horse under regular riding or a heavy work load should carry no more than 250 pounds of rider & tack. As said breed, built and conformation would play into this a great deal. 

If the horse has had fractured legs and other soundness issues this is certainly a problem that needs to be addressed (light riding, not sound for riding, a lighter work load and lighter rider). This would not be the first heavy person that I have told to get a 4-wheeler.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

New_image said:


> I had always heard it was 25% of the horses weight. A 1,000 pound horse under regular riding or a heavy work load should carry no more than 250 pounds of rider & tack. As said breed, built and conformation would play into this a great deal.
> 
> If the horse has had fractured legs and other soundness issues this is certainly a problem that needs to be addressed (light riding, not sound for riding, a lighter work load and lighter rider). This would not be the first heavy person that I have told to get a 4-wheeler.


I imagine the mare is maybe 1000 lbs and she's well over 250 with out her tack I feel so bad for this horse. She sits heavy in the saddle too galloping hills and just riding her hard all day at least 4 days a week and hard for shorter periods the other days.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

horse may have soundness issues causing problems but no reason healthy horse with decent conditioning cant carry any human load. Shetland ponies routinely carried 400 lb loads in the British Army. I carried my body weight in rucksacks on two legs, I am sure a horse with four legs has no problem with 300 lbs.


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## Wheatermay (Aug 22, 2011)

I've heard 20%, lol.... So that would mean the 1000 horse can only carry 200 lbs total. There was a formula I found online somewhere that gives u a formula to do using the measurements of the horse.


How does one determine the proper size horse for him/herself? Here is a formula with example:

Add up the total weight of the horse, rider, and tack. Our example: Horse + rider + tack= 1188 pounds
Measure the circumference of the cannon bone midway between the knee and fetlock. Our example: 7.5 inches
Divide the total weight by the circumference. Our example: 1188 / 7.5 = 158.4
Divide the result by two. Our example: 158.4 / 2 = 79.2
Values below 75 are great! Values from 75-80 are acceptable. Values over 80 indicate weaker legs and a need to train carefully, especially downhill. At this level a rider needs a horse with more substance.

* Reference: The Heavier Riders' Guide by Beverly Whittington and Rhonda Hart-Poe


I copied that off of What Size Horse Is Right For You? I found on google just now.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Yes, a heavy rider can damage a small horse, no matter how fit, I think. However, a light rider riding badly can too. A heavy rider riding badly... well better off on a clydie or such! Try looking up Dr Deb Bennett. She might have something on rider weight. Know I've read some studies & articles, just don't know where ATM, sorry.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

Well I am going to throw a spanner to the works and expect to get a whipping.
What makes us think the horse was ment to carry any weight on its back.

I remember giving my kids a horse ride in my back on all fours, kid on back and no saddle to spread the load or soften those bum bones from digging in. Not the best example but I did not last long. Back began to hurt.

The horse was not designed with the object of carring us on its back.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

Stan said:


> Well I am going to throw a spanner to the works and expect to get a whipping.
> What makes us think the horse was ment to carry any weight on its back.
> 
> I remember giving my kids a horse ride in my back on all fours, kid on back and no saddle to spread the load or soften those bum bones from digging in. Not the best example but I did not last long. Back began to hurt.
> ...


I completey disagree, the horse has specifically been designed to carry a load on his back, through thousands of years of selective breeding, Lots of people have tried to ride other critters, I am sure Grog and Nog climbed on others before they caught a horse, the horse worked out, the pig, rhino, and moose didnt. So taking that horse, Grog and Nog started a breeding program, till Abdul came along, and started getting really fancy, The horses that carried us good got to live and breed, the ones that didnt made great steaks, 

The 20 and 30 percent rules actually have a basis in fact on quite a few studies by the US Army, The 20% rule was for a forever load, basically it was found a horse could carry a 20% load all day every day for years without any ill effect. 30% for short campaigns, but the horse would wear down after a couple weeks, The way most of us ride only a few hours at a time once or twice a week, the horse will most likely be fine with alot more. 
The horse in the OP may have issues that would limit that though.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

I did say I was probibly going to get a whipping, I got caned. But the steak sounds good, beef that is. They still eat horse in France I have been told. For the life of me I can not look at my mare as food


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

I am an extremely heavy rider - 5'1" and 270. My girl can carry me on short rides (a mile or so) with no difficulty whatsoever. We are working on building both of us up for longer rides - she hasn't been ridden in years, and I haven't ridden in a great many years. (Both of us are on temporary hiatus at the moment - it's been way too hot and I am recovering from a broken left foot and sprained right knee. It's taking longer than I like!)

I use a very tall mounting block, so neither of us is overly strained on mounting. We plunk around at a steady walking gait with a little trotting now and again. We've managed some fairly rough terrain that way - better than some horses carrying half the weight my girl does.

Dancer is a Spanish Mustang cross, with a short, sturdy back and deep, strong loin. She's a little finer boned than I would like, but since we keep things easy, she should be just fine.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

It is the old unanswerable question, how much weight can this horse carry, the only fair thing to say is that it depends.

It depends on the rider:
Fit and well balanced versus flabby and wobbly
All over big or unbalanced
What level of skill
How much of a sympathetic rider

Depends on the horse:

Nothing to do with height but weight carrying capacity
Short strong bones
Short well sprung back
Great conformation
A large heart, as in the will to actually do it.

Depends on the tack and the riding

Does all the tack fit horse and rider perfectly
How long and how hard are the rides
Is a mounting block always used?

So it truly is impossible to answer this one globally, so I come back to, it depends.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

When I started riding Lilly, she was a green broke 750 lb horse. I weigh 175, so with gear I was asking her to carry 210ish. That is 28%.

She did fine at the walk, but trotting was hard for her. Her balance was uncertain and she obviously felt awkward in turns. And I was a green rider, so that didn't help.

With time, she got stronger and learned how to carry my weight, and I became better at balancing. By the time I sold her, she was pushing 800 lbs and had no trouble carrying me (26-27%) for an hour.

Our gelding weighs 830, so I'm at 25%. He came from a ranch where he was ridden daily by a 200 lb rider with a heavy saddle and supplies for the day - and ridden 10-12 hours in the mountains. At the time, Trooper probably weighed in at no more than 750 due to long hours of work and not much food. That was 33% of his weight, daily, long hours, rough terrain. Highly experienced rider, tho. No damage that I can tell. He now carries me without any sign of effort.

My 'large' horse is 890, so I'd be at 24%. She always tires me out before I tire her out, so I cannot tell you how much riding she can handle...

Based on my experience, I'd say 30% is getting near the max for daily riding. A good rider can make it bearable, but I don't know how many years Trooper could have gone without breaking down. I don't see any signs that 25% is hard on a horse that has practiced it a bit.

Cavalry mounts had to handle stretches of riding well outside what most recreational riders do. I've read Civil War accounts of troops moving 40 miles/day for 4-5 days straight, and sometimes 60 miles non-stop, with individual horses going 100 miles in a day. I'll never find out if my horses can handle that!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Stan said:


> The horse was not designed with the object of carring us on its back.


No wupping from me!:wink: Not that I think we need to get carried away with the idea, but very important fact to consider, I reckon. Not that mature horses can't obviously cope with reasonable weights if they're loaded(or ride) in a reasonable manner of course, as could you with your kids, but to use your eg, if your kids were oompaloompas, &/or were bouncing on your back &/or stayed there for long periods, then you'd know about the damage a lot more acutely. Even if we're just talking a little muscle wastage from long term pressure on an area. When we also consider that a horse's spine hasn't matured & growth plates 'closed' until they're around 6-7yo & yet we regularly start riding them around 3-4yo(or much younger for racehorse babies), there're a huge amount of damaged backs out there. But, so saying, still comes back to 'it depends' and I reckon Golden Horse put it very well.



> I completey disagree, the horse has specifically been designed to carry a load on his back, through thousands of years of selective breeding, Lots of people have tried to ride other critters,


When i started reading this, I thought you were being sarcastic. We have not substantially changed the build of a horse or made it more able to carry heavy weights in the few thousands of years(drop in the ocean of horse evolution) we've been breeding them. They have not been 'designed' by humans, for humans, we've only utilised their traits and made the most of them(bred them bigger for bigger weights, etc) As far as the build of their back/spine, there are definitely other animals more suitable to carry a load. I think it is more the attitude/behaviour of the horse that makes it a suitable animal for what we want of it. They are very stoic and ammenable animals.



> a few studies by the US Army, The 20% rule was for a forever load, basically it was found a horse could carry a 20% load all day every day for years without any ill effect. ...The way most of us ride only a few hours at a time once or twice a week, the horse will most likely be fine with alot more.


I agree with your last comment above, altho it still depends. I dispute the 'studies' you're speaking of though. I don't know when the army did those studies, but in the old days of working beasts of burden, horses were largely just used until broken & life expectancy was short due to their hard lives. I'd be interested how long a 'forever load' was actually measured at - just how many hours at a time, how many years was an extensive study done? Also which 'ill effects' were measured & which were ignorred, because for eg. even light pressure on muscles can cause damage over a matter of hours - eg. studies have been done on reduction of circulation due to a horse carrying a *well fitting* saddle *without anyone in it* Other damage on the other hand can take a long time and may not become an obvious problem for years. 

There have also been studies done on muscle & joint changes/balance due to mounting a horse from the ground, especially when always done from the same side. Even a well fitting saddle & a fit, agile rider will cause some imbalance & eventual changes when mounting from the ground, especially if always from one side. Wish I could find a study I had on this to show you... did have it here somewhere & I think it was actually an army one too.

Like I've said, I don't think it's detrimental to ride a horse just because they aren't 'designed' for it & don't want to get carried away with the potential problems, but I think they're well worth considering & don't for a minute think it's sensible to assume they've been 'designed' for & by us.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Don't have the link, but the horses used by ancient Greeks were significantly different than what we use today. It isn't evolution, but breeding. A quick look at breeds would reveal significant differences. Does anyone really think a Shire couldn't carry a 250 lb man with little difficulty? At the other end of the extreme, the guy who sold me Lilly (750 lbs) weighed a good 300 lbs, and he got on her to show she could be ridden! And yes, she was sore for at least a month! FWIW, we didn't try to ride her for the first 4 months she was with us.

There are enough folks around me with horses that they ride into their late 20s that I cannot believe recreational trail riding breaks down many horses. Specialized sports may be different, but lots of human athletes push themselves hard enough to break down as well. Competition does strange things to mens' minds.

As I mentioned earlier, cavalry used their mounts in a way almost no one does today. There aren't many who ride 200 miles in a week, or rely on grazing for most of their food while doing so.

But like modern man, modern horse rarely gets pushed to its physical extremes. On the western frontier, many poor farmers were broken down by 40. In my 20s, some time doing manual labor hauling rocks convinced me that the 'nobility' of hard manual labor wasn't worth what it did to my body.

I'm not going to pretend my horses race to me when I enter the corral, kneel down and beg, "Ride me! Ride me, Fat Bob!" But neither do they mind much. At the end of the ride, they stick their head against me, get face rubs, get cleaned off and then get fed. I've joked about having "Will work for food" branded on their rumps...but they seem to understand. Both my farrier and my vet have predicted that barring an unexpected accident or illness, they will be rideable until they die of old age.

Mia and I having a talk after a ride:










One of my daughter's first lessons on Lilly. Mia said my daughter looked a bit swaybacked, and I turned away in embarrassment at her rudeness. But if that is how my then 11 year old daughter looked on Lilly, can you imagine a 300+ lb man?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Good article:

"Comparably, a study of 374 competitive trail riding horses compared horse/rider weight relationships. They concluded that these horses can easily carry over 30% of their body weight for 100 miles and not only compete, but compete well. As would be expected, good body condition and bone structure were found to be paramount." 

Heavier Riders' Guide

Another article:

""The increase in your metabolism is directly proportional to the increase in the weight," Wickler explains. "So if you add 10 percent of your body weight, your costs go up 10 percent." Each additional pound added to the load produces a corresponding increase in the metabolic effort required to move that load--and that's over level ground. "If the horse is asked to trot uphill, metabolism increases. For a modest grade, metabolism increases by 2.5 times," Wickler adds."

"In short, explains Wickler, carrying a load causes a horse to shorten his stride, leave his feet on the ground longer and increase the distance his body travels (the "step length") with each stride. All of these gait adjustments work together to reduce the forces placed on the legs with each step."

How Much Weight Can Your Horse Safely Carry?

Another:

"Plasma lactate concentrations immediately after and ten minutes after exercise were lower when horses carried 15, 20, and 25% of their body weight compared with carrying 30%. Levels of creatine kinase measured immediately after exercise and also 24 and 48 hours following exercise showed the same pattern. Mean percentage of change in muscle soreness measured 24 hours before and 24 hours after exercise was greater in horses carrying 25 and 30% of their body weight than when they carried less weight."

Horses

And a discussion on another forum:

Conformation analyst Deb Bennett, PhD, of the Equine Studies Institute, notes that the primary requirement of a riding horse is to bear a rider's weight on the freespan of his back without strain, and that certain conformational qualities can make that easier for the animal. In her well-regarded book _Principles of Conformation Analysis_, she offers the following wish-list for weight-carrying ability: 


An excellent loin coupling--broad, short, smooth, and strong, yet flexible for coiling. The circumference about the loin and groin should be about the same as the heart-girth;
A short to medium-length back;
A neck set high on the shoulder, with a shallow vertebral curve at the base of the neck;
Moderately high withers, with a peak that lies well behind the horse's elbows;
A pelvis that constitutes at least 30% of the body length and slopes from 18-22 degrees; and
A total body weight of less than 1,450 pounds (658 kg).
New Article In Equus...Horses can only carry 250? - Page 2

Hope that helps the OP! :wink:

It sounds like the effects are more complex than one might think. The horse changes the way it moves for heavier weights, which reduces the impact on it. Higher weights will impact performance and recovery times, but it seems the studies are saying <20% should have little impact, and over 30% will have significant impact. And my hitting 25% on Mia & Trooper shouldn't have any impact at the levels of riding I do.

And of course, factors like bone structure and conformation also affect the answer. Good bones and conformation would help prevent breakdown from heavy loads, but probably not help much with muscle fatigue.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

A quote I like:

"*I very much doubt there is any scientific way to calculate (weight-carrying ability), or if anyone has done so," *says equine physiologist Karen Gellman, DVM, PhD, of the Department of Biomedical Sciences in the Section of Anatomy at Cornell University's College of Veterinary Medicine. "*Seems to me it is a pretty de facto situation. The animal votes with his feet if the load is unacceptable." *


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Some great info & comments there bsms!



> Don't have the link, but the horses used by ancient Greeks were significantly different than what we use today. It isn't evolution, but breeding. A quick look at breeds would reveal significant differences.


Yes of course, and different sizes of horses is the biggest factor, but I meant the overall structure of the horse. The way it's put together, the way it's spine is shaped, muscles sit thinly over bone, etc. Horse's have not been 'designed' to be ridden. If horses were only bred according to Deb Bennett's guidelines, their ability to carry may be generally enhanced in another how many 100 years, but their basic build would still be the same.


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## MelissaAnn (Aug 26, 2011)

Just throwing my 2 cents in here...
I've heard the 20% rule. 
Also, no matter what we've heard about shetland ponies and war horses dealing with up to 400 lbs, I doubt your horse was bred to do the same jobs as those brave horses. They probably don't have the same conditioning or diet as well. I would think a horse that has strong muscles and is well conditioned is better suited for a heavy rider, rather than one which only gets riden by such rider for a short amount of time once or twice per week.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

I had a flash comeback but as it took so long to write the computer shut me off, all that work lost which may not have been a bad thing.
I still have the opinion the design of the horse was not with riding in mind.

Good men and other mythical creatures, Im ready for that discussion


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

Stan said:


> Good men and other mythical creatures, Im ready for that discussion


Ah, yes...but leaving you to wonder is so much more fun!:lol:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

MelissaAnn said:


> Just throwing my 2 cents in here...
> I've heard the 20% rule.
> Also, no matter what we've heard about shetland ponies and war horses dealing with up to 400 lbs, I doubt your horse was bred to do the same jobs as those brave horses. *They probably don't have the same conditioning or diet as well.* I would think a horse that has strong muscles and is well conditioned is better suited for a heavy rider, rather than one which only gets riden by such rider for a short amount of time once or twice per week.


The bolded is an interesting question. Undoubtedly in most cases our pleasure horses do not carry the same condition as working horses of old, ours are soft and to a large part overweight, (looks in the mirror and thinks, much like their owners) :lol:.

As to diet, I can remember the days before nicely balanced and packaged rations were widely used, we fed straights, the feed room was a wonderful place with bins of oats, barley, corn, bran and shredded beet, and each horse had it's own ration mixed. I would imagine though that Shetlands working on the Islands would have a diet of grass, hay and oats, nothing fancy, and war horses much the same.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm siting at home with the flu. The brain went for a walk at the onset, before last weekend. Even most of my responses have been lame this week. I was looking for something to could get my teeth into (so to speak)

Shot down again. well done dee, but really I should have seen it coming.


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## EighteenHands (Sep 12, 2011)

As a plus size rider myself, I strongly believe that the amount of weight a horse can safely carry is based on a combination of science and nature. Studies prove that a horse who carries more than 30% of thier total body weight undergo more physical stress than a horse packing 15-20% of their weight. It is also proven that a horses confirmation plays an important role in weight bearing capacity. The ideal mount for a heavy rider is short-backed and wide at the chest and shoulders. Horses with a long or dogged-back have more distance between their last rib and pelvis, making weight bearing more strenuous and difficult (which is a reason we can't ride dogs, lol). Narrow horses must bear a riders weight over less surface area than that of a wider horse, so it tends to put more stress on the wither, chest and legs. Taking this into consideration, I know many plus size riders who ride ponies, arabs, and other various "small" horse breeds with NO issue what so ever. I have come to the conclusion that IT DEPENDS on the horse and rider, and it is the riders responsibility to determine if they _should _ride a particular horse. If you weigh over 250 pounds and don't have the best seat it might not be the best idea to ride a fine boned horse. I am 260 pounds and 5'10. I've been riding for 3 years and my seat is good, but I'm still learning. For ME to ride a pony, it would be cruel. I have no business on a pony, or any other small fine boned horse. I also personally could not ride a morgan either. I take lessons at a Morgan barn, and I have to trailer my horse their for the lessons, as they do not have a horse capable of safely carrying me. I am simply too big and too heavy for those types of horses and I'm OK with that. 

In your friends case, if the horses is experiencing leg fractures, there is obviously soundness issues that need to be addressed immediately. The horse needs to be vetted and your friend should ask the vet what may be the cause of the fractures, and whether weight is an issue for the horse or not. There is nothing wrong with being a plus sized rider, but there is cause for concern for the misuse of a horse even if it is not intentional.

Remember, Horseback riding is not a right, it is a privelage. As the rider, it is our responsibility to be mindful of the animal's well being and respectful of their needs.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

She has supposedly vetted the mare I say supposedly because she is the person who lives on Govt assistance and cant pay normal everyday bills dont know how she would afford vet bills that said the horses soundness has been an issue for the last 4 yrs I've known her and coincidentally thats when she started riding this poor mare before this she was too scared of the mare to ride her at more than a walk. I just think she is doing this mare more harm than good and is thinking of only herself.


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## EighteenHands (Sep 12, 2011)

this is an unfortunate situation and one that gives plus sized riders a bad reputation . unfortunately all you can do is encourage this rider to have her horse looked at , and insist that fractured legs are not normal in any situation. maybe you could provide this woman with some resources regarding horses and weight bearing capacity . also maybe point her in the direction of a more suitable mount. ultimately it is her and forth and her responsibility . sadly not everyone fully understand what horses are and are not capable of , and in the end it is the horse who suffers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nuisance (Sep 8, 2011)

dee said:


> i am an extremely heavy rider - 5'1" and 270. My girl can carry me on short rides (a mile or so) with no difficulty whatsoever. We are working on building both of us up for longer rides - she hasn't been ridden in years, and i haven't ridden in a great many years. (both of us are on temporary hiatus at the moment - it's been way too hot and i am recovering from a broken left foot and sprained right knee. It's taking longer than i like!)
> 
> i use a very tall mounting block, so neither of us is overly strained on mounting. We plunk around at a steady walking gait with a little trotting now and again. We've managed some fairly rough terrain that way - better than some horses carrying half the weight my girl does.
> 
> Dancer is a spanish mustang cross, with a short, sturdy back and deep, strong loin. She's a little finer boned than i would like, but since we keep things easy, she should be just fine.


dee, we need to get together, i live outside of wichita falls, tx, can't remember how far apart we are, but i'm a large woman, and i need to condition myself, along with my horse, so i can start going on some trail rides, she's approx 15hh, i haven't actually measured her yet, but she does well on our shorter rides we've been doing.

ETA: BUT THAT SAYING, IF MY HORSE HAS HAD A PROBLEM WITH FRACTURES AND SOUNDNESS, I WOULD NOT BE RIDING IT! I WOULD LET THE GRANDKIDS RIDE HER AROUND THE PASTURE, THAT'S ABOUT IT


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

nuisance said:


> dee, we need to get together, i live outside of wichita falls, tx, can't remember how far apart we are, but i'm a large woman, and i need to condition myself, along with my horse, so i can start going on some trail rides, she's approx 15hh, i haven't actually measured her yet, but she does well on our shorter rides we've been doing.
> 
> ETA: BUT THAT SAYING, IF MY HORSE HAS HAD A PROBLEM WITH FRACTURES AND SOUNDNESS, I WOULD NOT BE RIDING IT! I WOULD LET THE GRANDKIDS RIDE HER AROUND THE PASTURE, THAT'S ABOUT IT


I'm actually quite a ways from you - I'm east of OKC, but it would be nice for us BBW's to get together for a ride some day!


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