# Not sure if my mare is pregnant



## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

My mare is in heat and got into the stallions paddock. No one was home while she was in there so I'm not sure if he got her or if he did, how many times. Is there anyway I can tell before the next time she comes into heat? If she is pregnant any vitamins or supplements I should put her on?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Serenity said:


> My mare is in heat and got into the stallions paddock. No one was home while she was in there so I'm not sure if he got her or if he did, how many times. Is there anyway I can tell before the next time she comes into heat? If she is pregnant any vitamins or supplements I should put her on?


Talking from experience, that's all it takes, just get the 2 together, they'll take care of the rest. If you know the exact date she was in with him, or dates, go approximately 17 - 21 days out from that date and have her palpated and ultrasounded to find out if she's pregnant. If you reallllllly don't want her pregnant, she probably is. The earlier you get her checked, (you can even have her checked at 14 or 15 days but that's not as fool proof) the easier it is to terminate the pregnancy if she's pregnant. Call your vet tomorrow, he might be willing to give a shot or just flush her at some point without knowing she's pregnant, kind of a "just in case" kind of thing. You'll still need to check her to be sure though. 

Feed, vitamins, and all that, don't change much until the 2nd trimester when she starts to lactate and the foal puts on the last growth spurt. I keep an eye on my mares to make sure no one loses a bunch of weight once they're pregnant, and I just keep them in good flesh and I give a daily vitamin anyhow. A good, daily multivitamin would be all she'd need. 

If you decide to go through with the pregnancy (if she's in foal) then ask your vet about how selenium deficient, or not, your area is. Here, I give a Magnesium, E and Selenium supplement because we're known to be pretty much ZERO for Selenium.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

If she's pregnant I'm deffinently going through with her pregnancy. I'll call a vet out. I have her on a daily vitamin already so I'll keep giving that to her. She was with the stallion May 31st, if he did get her do you know approximately when she's due. I've never had a pregnant mare. My aunts always had the foals. Also, I heard they need to eat more then usual.. Is that true? Sorry for asking so much i just want an easy pregnancy for my mare.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Serenity said:


> If she's pregnant I'm deffinently going through with her pregnancy. I'll call a vet out. I have her on a daily vitamin already so I'll keep giving that to her. She was with the stallion May 31st, if he did get her do you know approximately when she's due. I've never had a pregnant mare. My aunts always had the foals. Also, I heard they need to eat more then usual.. Is that true? Sorry for asking so much i just want an easy pregnancy for my mare.


That's ok, no problem at all with all the questions you want to ask. Let me correct something, I typed 2nd trimester in my first response and that's not correct. At the beginning of the 3rd trimester is when I start really increasing the feed. At any time, if she starts to look like she's dropping weight, you can up the amount of food you're feeding her. But she really shouldn't have too much demand on her body until the beginning of her last trimester. 

She'd be "due" roughly May 6 - 11, if you go for somewhere between 340 and 345 days. She could go more or less depending on her. Has she ever had a foal that you know of?


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I've only had for about 8-9 months. Her last owners starved her and the other horse she was with and abused drugs and alcohol so they know nothing about my mare. I think she has had another foal because her nipples sag down as if she's had milk in them. Is there any other way I can tell if she's had another foal?


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Okay I am going to be the one to step up and ask WHY would you keep her pregnant? It sounds like she was a rescue? You don't know anything about her history. Is she registered? Is she bred to a stallion that would have this foal eligible for a registry?

Sorry but with so many unwanted horses out there I do not support an "oops" foal from an unregistered mare and stallion that do not compliment each other.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I'm not going to kill a baby horse and why does my horse have to be registered? The stallion is registered, I already know that and why can't I breed a rescue?


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

She doesn't really have a history. She was left in a pasture to fend for herself. I trained her and everything. I did all the work with her, her past owners left her. I don't get what's so wrong with her breeding. And I didn't purposely breed her, fyi. She got through the fence when no one was home.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

The reason many are against an accidental breeding is because of what happened to your horse before you got, neglected. To give a horse the best start in life, you plan it, study bloodlines, and hopefully end up with a horse that is valuable will be wanted. An unregistered foal of unknown lineage is more likely to end up starved, or in a kill pen if something happens to you and you can't keep horses any longer. Also another unplanned foal in the world takes up space that could be for a rescue already on this earth. However, it's your horse, your choice.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I'm keeping the foal and I find it kinda rude that you think unregistered foals are unwanted. Who cares if it's not purebred? If someone really loved horses the breed or whether it's purebred or not shouldn't matter. And there are tons of registered/purebred horses that are neglected. Just because it's unplanned does not mean I am going to kill this foal because of it not being registered or purebred. The stallion has great bloodline and we have a beautiful healthy foal from him right now. I'm really offended by how your going about my mare being pregnant with a mixed breed..


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Who cares? The people with money that buy horses and feed them. The people that don't care are the ones that neglect them. No, not all grade horses are neglected & yes, lots of registered horses end up as rescues as well, but that's not the rule. As a conscientious horse owner, I would never, ever condone a willy nilly breeding unless it was too late. I couldn't do it. But again, it's your horse, your choice, good luck.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I'm sorry if I'm being rude but I've grown up with all sorts of mixed breed horses and they've all done really well and have always had healthy foals.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

If your just going to be rude and judge me and my horse for an accidental breeding then please don't post. I'm keeping the foal. Not selling it. So that means it is going to be taken care of and it is not going to be neglected. Stop judging others for there mixed breed horses, it's dumb and rude. I know tons of people who love the horse for them and not for there breed. Sorry not everyone is picky about there fancy purebreds/registered horses.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with my horse having a mixed breed foal. I don't kill foals just for not being purebred, it's wrong.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I wasn't being rude, I was explaining why to you and you asked, sorry if you didn't like the answer.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Registered, pure or not. Have you considered that having a baby could kill your mare, what will you do when (if) that happens? How old is your mare? You don't know that she's had babies before, so it could be incredibly difficult for her and the fact that she was starved before you bought her does increase her risk. 

How did your mare get in with the stallion anyway? Maybe you need to look at your fencing...


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

We're not judging you because you're breeding a grade horse. Yes, that is a bad decision with the current state of the horse world with over population. The biggest concern we have is that you know nothing of your mare's history. Has she or the stallion been tested for frame, HYPP, HERDA, or any other genetic disease? Have you heard of OLWS, HYPP, or HERDA? They are all genetic disease that can kill a foal. THAT is what we are most concerned about with your mare. If she is bred, and she and/or the stallion are a carrier for any of those diseases, there's nothing you can do to prevent the foal from getting it.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I know it can kill her, she's 5 and she got through the fence. I'll just get rid of the baby to satisfy you guys because obviously me and my horse are the two dumbest things on earth. Sorry she's not purebred and sorry no one was home to stop her. Can't help the fact it happened. I'm going to bed so I'll finish this tomorrow. Sorry for being rude I just feel like my horse isn't good enough to breed and it's not my fault she got in with the stallion. I just hope now she's not pregnant that way no ones freaked out about a neglected mixed breed foal.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

You had to check off the box stating you understand that breeding is a very touchy subject and you will get mixed responces and reactions to any thread in breeding. Sorry its the way it goes. I do not condone any reckless/oops breedings when they can be avoided or caught early enough 

You sound young. You have lots to learn. But what would happen if something happened to you and the horses need rehomed? Do you not want it to have the best possible chance for a good home and reduce chances of ending up in the kill pen?


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

Well, I'm sorry. Now I'm worried, if she's pregnant I'll keep everyone updated so you all can help me figure out what to do but im going to bed. Talk to you all tomorrow. And I'm sorry, I'm just stressed about my horse.. I did not want this to happen.. I'm sorry.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

And I already have someone to take care of them if something did happen... I'll just wait and see what happens. I'll update you all. I'm sorry and goodnight.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Kayella said:


> We're not judging you because you're breeding a grade horse. Yes, that is a bad decision with the current state of the horse world with over population. The biggest concern we have is that you know nothing of your mare's history. Has she or the stallion been tested for frame, HYPP, HERDA, or any other genetic disease? Have you heard of OLWS, HYPP, or HERDA? They are all genetic disease that can kill a foal. THAT is what we are most concerned about with your mare. If she is bred, and she and/or the stallion are a carrier for any of those diseases, there's nothing you can do to prevent the foal from getting it.


Quoting as it needs repeated. Its not so much that it is a mixed breed. Its that you do not know the mares history or any genetic conditions that could be carried in her blood lines. FRAME/OWLS means a dead foal with zero chance of survival when born. Is that fair to your mare or the foal that will be born in pain until its dead?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

OP, now you know how the general horse public feels, but you already stated you will keep the foal, so end of my mentioning it. I would however make sure your mare is vaccinated and preg checked by a vet to ensure the best possible chance for her.


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## WyndellaRose (Nov 7, 2011)

Let me preface by stating I've never owned a horse but rode in the past for many years. I've never bred horses although I would love to one day when I can afford to. In the meantime I've been on here, I've read numerous books, and websites and researched until I was blue in the face. 

My advice and anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, get her ultrasounded when you should to confirm a pregnancy and check for twins. I know you don't want to kill a foal but if there are twins this puts the mare at a much higher risk so please...if there are twins, let the vet pinch one. You should still end up with one foal and majorly lower the risk of your mare having complications or dying during or after birth. 

Make sure her feed is the best you can get and when in the third trimester, increase her feed as recommended by the vet. Others on here can give great advice when it comes to brands, supplements, etc. 

Get her vaccines when advised by your vet. 

Please please please get her tested for the genetic diseases mentioned above. Also, get the stallion tested! A lethal white foal or LWO is not something you want to have and the other diseases aren't good either. 

I've noticed that while a lot of people on this forum are rude and blunt with differing opinions, most have great advice but sometimes you have to look through the comments you don't like to see them. 

I wish you the best of luck and I'm sure most of us (mainly me) would like to see pictures of your mare and the *maybe* daddy! This is a picture happy forum! Keep us posted!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Serenity said:


> I'm not going to kill a baby horse and why does my horse have to be registered? The stallion is registered, I already know that and why can't I breed a rescue?


Can you post pics of the mare and tell us as much as you think you know about her breeding? Also give some pics of the stallion and a link to his pedigree? 

Anyone who has a stallion on their place can have an OOPS. It's not great and not something to try for but ........it happens. It happened to me. I had a 2 year old filly, not an age I would EVER condone breeding, and my stallion get together because of an accident with an older broodmare. We loaded up the broodie and hauled A$$ to the vet to have her put down and someone, no fingers pointed, left a gate or 2 open. The stallion bred the filly and was back in his pasture before we got home. Never even occurred to me that the breeding had happened. The barn helper found the gates open and closed them and never thought to mention it to me. Come Feb of last year, Mare 1 foals out as scheduled, Mare 2 foals out as scheduled and when we came home from having the newest foal checked out from the vet, I saw a white thing out in the pasture. Went out to see who had been throwing plastic bags around in the pasture and found.....a placenta and....a still wet filly. Fortunately that 2 year old was a great mother. I had bought her to breed to that stallion, but discovered personality and temper flaws that had caused me to put her up for sale, not one I wanted as a breeder. Her filly, that I would have flushed had I had even an inkling that the breeding had occurred, turned out to be the 1 of the 3 that I liked the most and she didn't have any of her mother's character flaws. Go figure! So, I double registered her and sold her as a yearling to a great home. 

I got very lucky. There were all kinds of pitfalls with that breeding because of the mare's age and her temper and the plain fact that she had a few screws loose. She was gorgeous and double registered, but I had decided back when SHE was a yearling that she didn't fit my breeding plans because I breed for conformation and temperament before anything else. 

So, I'm the last person to get on your case about an accidental breeding! Not gonna hear it from me, but what I would like to do is find out as much as possible about the 2 horses involved, so that I could maybe give you some good direction.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Serenity it is your decision alone to decide if you want the mare to carry the foal or not.
It is no crime to allow her to have the foal even if it is not registered.
Feed the mare more good quality feed as Dreamcathcer has posted in her last trimester. Ensure she has her annual shots 4-6 weeks before foaling to ensure the mare passes on her immunity to the foal. Worm the mare about 4 weeks before the foal is due. If you do all these things you should have a healthy foal. Good luck. Shalom


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## sssmith (Apr 11, 2010)

I just want to add too that they are asking for pics of your mare and sire because different breeds have some distinguishing characteristics, and some breeds are more susceptible to the genetic diseases mentioned than others, so they could guide you along the way if you needed their advice. Some on this forum are straightforward and down right rude... But it's ONLY because we all have a passion for these animals and want only the best for ALL of them. Don't take any comments personal, the people on this forum will become your very best friends when it gets close to foaling time, and u will rely on them and hang on every word... They've helped me through 3, the first 2 were grade mares that I bought late in gestation, unknowingly , the third is registered and just had her baby on April 15. I bought her when she was 7 months pregnant with a very planned pregnancy.... Anyway, my point is, they have good advice even if u have to wade through the butt chewing first, but when it gets down to business And your in a panic, need advice and ur vets a heavy sleeper, these girls and guys are always around. Good luck with your mare, and if she is pregnant, happy foaling!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Can you post pics of the mare and tell us as much as you think you know about her breeding? Also give some pics of the stallion and a link to his pedigree?
> 
> Anyone who has a stallion on their place can have an OOPS. It's not great and not something to try for but ........it happens. It happened to me. I had a 2 year old filly, not an age I would EVER condone breeding, and my stallion get together because of an accident with an older broodmare. We loaded up the broodie and hauled A$$ to the vet to have her put down and someone, no fingers pointed, left a gate or 2 open. The stallion bred the filly and was back in his pasture before we got home. Never even occurred to me that the breeding had happened. The barn helper found the gates open and closed them and never thought to mention it to me. Come Feb of last year, Mare 1 foals out as scheduled, Mare 2 foals out as scheduled and when we came home from having the newest foal checked out from the vet, I saw a white thing out in the pasture. Went out to see who had been throwing plastic bags around in the pasture and found.....a placenta and....a still wet filly. Fortunately that 2 year old was a great mother. I had bought her to breed to that stallion, but discovered personality and temper flaws that had caused me to put her up for sale, not one I wanted as a breeder. Her filly, that I would have flushed had I had even an inkling that the breeding had occurred, turned out to be the 1 of the 3 that I liked the most and she didn't have any of her mother's character flaws. Go figure! So, I double registered her and sold her as a yearling to a great home.
> 
> ...


Yes oops breedings do happen. Its just one of those things that can happen no matter how hard you try and avoid it.

However when you "catch" the oops breeding, you know it happened early enough and you know its not a good cross for various reasons(including not knowing if either animal carry genetic diseases) then as a responsible breeder/stallion owner/mare owner you can abort the breeding.

Now sometimes the cross is a good one and hey you might as well keep the foal even if it is unplanned. But when you know nothing on the mares history, know nothing of her blood lines, know nothing of any genetic flaws she may carry... the responsible thing to do is abort it if you know about it early enough.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NBEventer said:


> Yes oops breedings do happen. Its just one of those things that can happen no matter how hard you try and avoid it.
> 
> However when you "catch" the oops breeding, you know it happened early enough and you know its not a good cross for various reasons(including not knowing if either animal carry genetic diseases) then as a responsible breeder/stallion owner/mare owner you can abort the breeding.
> 
> Now sometimes the cross is a good one and hey you might as well keep the foal even if it is unplanned. But when you know nothing on the mares history, know nothing of her blood lines, know nothing of any genetic flaws she may carry... the responsible thing to do is abort it if you know about it early enough.


I don't disagree with you, in principle. We don't know her religious upbringing, what you're suggesting may totally be at odds with everything she's been taught. And, it's her mare, she makes the choice. She asked for advice, not opinions so that's what I'm going to give her. She's stated she's going to keep the foal, that's her business and her decision.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I don't disagree with you, in principle. *We don't know her religious upbringing*, what you're suggesting may totally be at odds with everything she's been taught. And, it's her mare, she makes the choice. She asked for advice, not opinions so that's what I'm going to give her. She's stated she's going to keep the foal, that's her business and her decision.


This is true... I tend to forget about different religious beliefs/practices that can be carried over into how you care for animals/livestock.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

The "none of your business argument." *sigh* Don't want something to be the business of someone you don't know online? Don't post it. 

OP there are very valid concerns raised. The breeding section gets quite volatile that is why there is a warning you have to agree with before posting in this section. If I were in you're place I would call my vet and get a shot of lute for the mare and keep her away from the stud.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

There is no reason a breeding section of a forum should be volatile. 
If we dont agree with some ones opinion or their breeding program then like Dreamcatchers has posted give your advice and let it go. 
a foal is not going to impact the world. We are not talking politics, religion, or science here. No reason for any controversy.
There are people that are passionate about the horse industry. Thats great. They want to give sound advice to new members , that I have no problem with. In fact we should encourage this.
How we word our advice is as important as the information we give.
Starting an arguement with anyone is not going to change their minds. In fact the opposite is more likely to happen.
Make suggestions. No one wants a lecture.
There are some very knowledgeable members here OP listen to them. Dealing with a foal destined to die is not pleasant. You sound like a young person. There are easier ways to learn the hard lessons about owning a horse than watching a foal die. Shalom


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

Lets see what i can add here. 
I have learned a lot.and has suspicions raised since i have joined his forum. Accidental breedings happen, i had a tree fall on a fence in a storm. It made it easy for my stallion to escape his enclosure and breed a buckskin paint mare. Now ups of that breeding were both mare and stallion were built beautifully, both had great lineage, and both had stellar personalities. Now, she wasnt pregnant. But she is gettig bred to this stallion, actually was last month.
As for a rescue, it is impossible to register a foal unless boh parents are registered, or ine parent registered in a color registration. Now, having a rescue mare increases any risks there are with mares owners know and have been tested, not to mention her age.
I had a four year old be bought from and auction house, beautiful solid paint. She was registered but after having her for eleven month, i found a bag under her belly. I had no idea she was bred let alone who to. Now her foal came out perfectly fine
, but her motherly instincts were terrible. 
Now if you know the stallion and hes registered under a color registration, the process to get to foal registered could be expensive. I am having to DNA test my colt to his sire since the owner refused to give me my breeding certificate. It can cost $300 or more just to prove your foals lineage. 
Are you prepared to pay the costs of extra feed, supplements, vet bills, or any tragic steps that can posdibly happen like losing your mare or foal or even both? 
Are you prepared to possibly get the worst conformarional faults or personality or maybe get the good side? What about a regecting mother?
Do you have everything you will need if it comes down to complications?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

You may think there isn't a reason for the breeding section to be volatile, but apparently the admin/owner of this site thought so since the warning was put in place. 

It IS a volatile subject due to poster's strong beliefs in regards to horse breeding.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I just have one thing to say about the resulting foal not being registerable... It may not be registerable in a 'true' registry or association, such as the AQHA or TWHBEA or whatever, but, if you just want it registered for proof of 'ownership', there's always the ACTHA (American Competitive Trail Horse Association), which is what I'm planning on registering my horses in eventually. It may not be an 'official' registry, but it's pretty darned nice.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

Okay so, how do I check her bloodlines? Can the vet get blood samples? We've had a successful foal with the stallion already but ill double check his bloodlines just to be sure. If she's pregnant with twins then I will for sure let the vet take one. Ill put up pics tonight of her and the stallion. If she does have a disease or something bad ill have the vet get rid of the baby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

Serenity said:


> Okay so, how do I check her bloodlines? Can the vet get blood samples? We've had a successful foal with the stallion already but ill double check his bloodlines just to be sure. If she's pregnant with twins then I will for sure let the vet take one. Ill put up pics tonight of her and the stallion. If she does have a disease or something bad ill have the vet get rid of the baby.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is literally almost impossible to check your mares bloodlines with little to know idea who shes out of. 
It helps a little bit that the stallion had a decent foal, but hat doesnt mean they will throw a good foal together. Conformation could come out terribly or personality as well.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Serenity said:


> Okay so, how do I check her bloodlines? Can the vet get blood samples? We've had a successful foal with the stallion already but ill double check his bloodlines just to be sure. If she's pregnant with twins then I will for sure let the vet take one. Ill put up pics tonight of her and the stallion. If she does have a disease or something bad ill have the vet get rid of the baby.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The main thing you need to do is figure out what breed you think the mare is. If she's Quarter Horse based, then there's a hereditary disease panel you should do (*Combination (HYPP, HERDA, GBED, PSSM, MH)	
$95.00 US). If the stallion or the mare are Paint or Pinto types, then you should check for Lethal White on both horses in addition to the Hereditary panel, to know if it's possible to have an OLWS foal. If neither or only 1 parent carries the gene, everything is good, if they both carry it, it could mean a foal that dies in the first 72 hours. If they're Arabians, then you would need to check for SCID, CA and LFS. 

That's why we're asking to see pics of both horses and a pedigree if available on the stud.


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## 40232 (Jan 10, 2013)

OP, how old are you? I'm just curious. I know you intend to keep the foal if your mare is pregnant, but if you are just a teenager/college student/whatever, how do you know if you will be able to finance 2 horses? Less people want grade horses, even though I personally prefer them. I own an "odd" cross right now, whom I registered as half arabian. For some breed associations, only one parent has to be registered. As Britt said, you could register the foal with the Competitive Trail Horse Association. 

There are many options, but sometimes the horse breeding business is a complicated place. My neighbor bred a half NSH half Mountain Pleasure horse, and it took 3 years to sell it. Purebred, registered horses are easier to sell, and if I was ever in a money pinch, I would end up being able to sell the registered ones a whole bunch easier. You really need to think about the foal in the long term, not just selfish reasons of wanting to keep it, etc etc. I personally wouldn't support a horse abortion, but I also wouldn't want my future foal to have the slightest chance of being neglected or ending up in slaughter.

This is not meant to offend you, I just really hope that you really think about this. Even she is pregnant and you decide to keep the foal, you BETTER update us with pregnancy pictures, hoo-ha pictures and foal pictures! ^_^ My best horse is a half arabian half rocky mountain, and he kicks all of the purebred horses asses at shows! (Excuse my language)

Best wishes, 
Kylie


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Serenity .. welcome to the forum!

I'm sorry your mare was accidently bred, but I'm glad that you decided to ask questions and seek some advice.

If your mare is pg and you are determined to see the pgcy through -- and that is YOUR right -- then your best friend should be your vet. He/she can tell you what vaccinations, feed, supplements your mare might need .. and you'll probably find him/her less judgemental than anonymous forum people. He/she can also talk to you about the testing .. and probably without scaring you.

There will always be folks that will condemn a less-than-perfectly-planned breeding, or the breeding of a grade horse. They have their reasons, but they aren't in your shoes right now.

There is always a risk with breeding and foaling, but the vast majority of mares foal without issue. 

Take a breath, be in contact with your vet, filter through the rude posts and glean all the info you can.

Give your mare a kiss for me..

And, again .. welcome to the forum.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I am pretty certain the admin or owners of this site placed that warning there because they were tired of either closing threads or having threads reported.
The only people who find breeding controversial and make it a volatile subject are the ones that choose to. The ones who In my PROFESSIONAL Opinion merely want to argue and bully. Thats basic psychology.
I understand the frustration of reading about accidental breedings and worry about the prospects of the foal. Nothing wrong with that. It is the condescending manner some people use in their post thats the problem. Shalom


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

OP if the stallion is a registered purebred arabian you can register that foal.
I dont know of any other registries that do though. Good luck with the foal if she is pregnant.
Keep asking questions just overlook the criticism. Shalom


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> I am pretty certain the admin or owners of this site placed that warning there because they were tired of either closing threads or having threads reported.
> The only people who find breeding controversial and make it a volatile subject are the ones that choose to. *The ones who In my PROFESSIONAL Opinion merely want to argue and bully*. Thats basic psychology.
> I understand the frustration of reading about accidental breedings and worry about the prospects of the foal. Nothing wrong with that. It is the condescending manner some people use in their post thats the problem. Shalom


Professional opinion could be used in so many ways. So sorry, doesn't fly with this thread. 

I can't speak for everyone else, but I know a good majority of us don't speak up so we can "bully". We are speaking up to keep the numbers lower in the kill pen. Its "only" one horse. But its one less horse. 

Breeding for the sake of breeding because you want a cute little baby out of your precious Suzy Q because she was your bff is silly. And allowing a known "oops" breeding to continue on when you know nothing about your mare is just irresponsible. I am not talking about the OP, she just happens to be an example from thousands.

If the mare was a cross bred but you know her history and she has a good sound mind and conformation and you know the stallion and this cross will likely bring a baby that would be easy to rehome should something happen, well then its not as bad. But a rescue mare you know nothing about is just another baby out there with an increased risk of the kill pen. People scream and yell they want slaughter to end. Well stop adding to the population that feeds the slaughter houses.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

NBEventer said:


> Professional opinion could be used in so many ways. So sorry, doesn't fly with this thread.


Huh? People are people .. horse people aren't exempt from the opinion of a professional in dba's field... I think he has a pretty good handle on what likely motivates people.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Huh? People are people .. horse people aren't exempt from the opinion of a professional in dba's field... I think he has a pretty good handle on what likely motivates people.


Not going to lie, my wording failed big time with this sentence and caused me to completely throw a pie in my face in terms of my point. So i'm just going to drop that line. If it wasn't to late to edit it out I would. 

The rest of my post I stand by.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

NBeventer, I am not talking about you or ndappy being bullies. I do not think either of you are.
Both of you are very knowledgeable especially about the genetic disorders .
NDappy and I have established a nice friendship on the forum.
She is intelligent and a warm caring person we have PMed each other to give support when life has taken a harsh turn.
My post was about the need to include the warning about this thread being volatile and controversial.
The OP took offense at some of the comments.
This thread and forum are great tools to learn from.
If our advice is given as a suggestion instead of as written in stone the OP and others might be more inclined to digest the information.
That IMO would do a lot to ease the problem of the surplus horse population.
Shalom


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> The "none of your business argument." *sigh* Don't want something to be the business of someone you don't know online? Don't post it.
> 
> OP there are very valid concerns raised. The breeding section gets quite volatile that is why there is a warning you have to agree with before posting in this section. If I were in you're place I would call my vet and get a shot of lute for the mare and keep her away from the stud.


Appy, it's partially the "none of your Beezwax" arguement and partially it's because she stated very clearly in her 2nd post on this topic, 

"If she's pregnant I'm deffinently going through with her pregnancy."

Once that's said, flushing or aborting the pregnancy in any way is off the table. If she'd been the least bit hesitant in her decision I could see maybe trying to talk to her some more about options, but she was very clear on her wishes. At that point, it's none of my business and all about just trying to be helpful. I had already talked about giving a Lutalyse or Prostin shot, or flushing or several of the ways an unwanted pregnancy can be terminated. She let me know very quickly and very clearly that those were not options she cared to discuss. 

I wouldn't push a 14 year old girl who got pregnant once she clearly stated, "I will not terminate this pregnancy, I will carry to term.". End of discussion, at least for me.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Hi Serenity, Welcome to the forum! I'm entering this thread a little late, so what I have to say may have already been mentioned. Please forgive me if I'm repeating anything. I read some of your posts, but mostly I only skimmed the last 4 pages. 

First off, if you find people are being rude, don't take it personally. Just report it to the moderators. Just because there is a disclaimer that breeding is a touchy subject, does not give people license to be rude. Also remember that emotions aren't conveyed through written word (unless there are emoticons used!) and so it's difficult to sometimes interpret what people's actual intentions are. A forward or direct reply may only be just that, with no malice intended. 

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, let's talk about your mare. Even if she was only with the stallion for a few hours, she could very well be pregnant. An example I can give is my mare, who I intentionally bred this year. She is a 12 year old maiden, and was only covered twice by the stallion. When I took her to the vet for an US, the vet was 99% positive, that based on the size of the embryo, she caught on the very first breeding. 

If you're set on keeping the baby, then you're taking a step in the right direction to learn what you can. If you're planning on getting your mare ultrasounded to know for sure, also find out from your vet what the potential costs are. Things such as mileage, after hours dispatch in the case of an emergency, basic examinations, etc. will at least give you a baseline as to what you could be incurring for vet costs. Don't forget vaccinations, deworming, etc. Your vet should be able to provide you with a schedule of when you should deworm, vaccinate, etc. Your vet should also be able to tell you about feeding and vitamins. A lot of feeding is based on mineral levels and plants in your area. Some areas are extremely high for things like iodine or selenium, while other areas are lacking in those minerals and so you would need to supplement. The type of hay available to you will also determine if and what you need to supplement. 

The other thing you should do is research, research, research! Buy books, subscribe to magazines, talk to knowledgeable people both online and in person. I find a handy resource is thehorse.com. It's a free subscription and there is often some good information in there. I also have a subscription to Equus magazine. 

As someone mentioned earlier, find out as much as you can about your mare's history. I know my mare's entire history and I still had her genetically tested for the 5 common genetic disorders found in QH's (HYPP, HERDA, etc.) as well as Lethal White. It was more for my own peace of mind than anything and the cost of these tests is minimal when you look at what a potential vet bill might be without knowing. 

Lastly, pictures are a must.  Grade or not, she sounds like she's pretty special to you and worth sharing.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

NBEventer said:


> Professional opinion could be used in so many ways. So sorry, doesn't fly with this thread.
> 
> I can't speak for everyone else, but I know a good majority of us don't speak up so we can "bully". We are speaking up to keep the numbers lower in the kill pen. Its "only" one horse. But its one less horse.
> 
> ...


I'm not irresponsible. Obviously I'm getting advice and considering taking the baby away if it is in danger. If your going to say that I'm just adding to the population that feeds the slaughter house then don't post here. I'm seeking advice so I can keep my mare safe. I'm tired of people saying that I'm adding to the neglected horses in this world. I know horse breeding is not easy and that's why I'm trying to get some help. So stop with the negativity towards me. I'm just trying to help my horse.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Serenity said:


> I'm not irresponsible. Obviously I'm getting advice and considering taking the baby away if it is in danger. If your going to say that I'm just adding to the population that feeds the slaughter house then don't post here. I'm seeking advice so I can keep my mare safe. I'm tired of people saying that I'm adding to the neglected horses in this world. I know horse breeding is not easy and that's why I'm trying to get some help. So stop with the negativity towards me. I'm just trying to help my horse.


That post wasn't directed towards you. I was just speaking in general. Lower the hackles. One of the disadvantages of the internet is it doesn't relay tone very well. Trust me though, I am not attacking you.

My post was a general statement that there are so many people out there that don't act responsibly when it comes to breeding. 

Pull some hairs from your mare and get her tested for all the genetic diseases that can be carried such as HYPP, HERDA, OWLS etc etc etc


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

NBEventer said:


> That post wasn't directed towards you. I was just speaking in general. Lower the hackles. One of the disadvantages of the internet is it doesn't relay tone very well. Trust me though, I am not attacking you.
> 
> My post was a general statement that there are so many people out there that don't act responsibly when it comes to breeding.
> 
> Pull some hairs from your mare and get her tested for all the genetic diseases that can be carried such as HYPP, HERDA, OWLS etc etc etc


I'm sorry for taking it offensively. Will my vet be able to test the hair? Also, the stallion is purebred paint and the mare is Quarter horse/Thoroughbred. People were asking for the breeds. I'll take pics when I take her out for her grain. Do you know any diseases those breeds can carry? And if so, the affects they have towards the foal. Also, why do rescues have greater risks of a bad pregnancy/birth. If the foal is in danger I will do what's best and abort it. I'm not sure if Dreamcatcher Arabians is still reading this forum but aborting is not off the table, I didn't realize all the risks when I said that (I apologize). The diseases, HYPP, HERDA, OLWS, etc.. What do they do to the foal? If I do need to sell the foal, if there's no problems with my mare, I have 2 homes that it can go to.. That's if I can't take care of it/have the money for it.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

The stallion NEEDS to be tested for OWLS/Lethal White, especially if he is a paint. The mare needs to as well. The mare should be tested for HYPP if she has QH in her. Do you know her blood lines at all?


OWLS/Lethal White causes the foal to be born with an incomplete digestive system and it will die within hours of being born a very painful death. 



> Overo Lethal White Syndrome or "O. L. W. S.", is a terminal defect that inevitably kills newborn foals. It is one of many birth defects that trouble breeders. Lethal "white" foals have blue or washed out grayish eyes (not like true albinos who have pink eyes) and generally have no skin pigmentation at all, although in many cases, some foals have a touch of dark coloration here and there on the body. We had one born with a tail that was partially black. Other than the partially pigmented tail, this absolutely gorgeous foal was snow white. Breeders have reported foals born with small dark spots.
> 
> The foals initially appear normal except for their unusual coloring. They're usually breathtakingly beautiful and perfectly conformed. The foals stand and nurse and start playing next to their mothers, like any normal foal. Then you notice that they don't have a bowel movement after they nurse or when you give them an enema. Signs of colic, or intestinal cramping generally begin, from one hour to twelve hours following birth, due to the foal's inability to pass feces. The "lethal white" foal has an underdeveloped and contracted intestine. In most cases, the intestine simply stops short of the anal opening so the food cannot pass all the way through the foal's digestive system. This problem is caused by a failure of the embryonic cells that form nerves in the gastrointestinal system, and attempts to surgically bypass the problem have, to date, been unsuccessful.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Here is a link LWO - Lethal White Overo Testing


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

Thank you. I will talk to the owner of the stallion and ask if he's been tested and I will have my mare tested.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't know if your mare has any white or not. But even if she doesn't she NEEDS to be tested. There was a member whos mare did not have a speck of white and she was positive for frame. So all mares should be tested. 

HYPP your vet can test


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Equine Testing Service Cost

Here's a link to the lab I use for testing. They're reliable, quick and pretty reasonable prices. 

HYPP can show up as NOTHING or all the way to severe Seizures in the horse. Some can be controlled by diet and low stress and others...nothing can really control the seizures and they end up having to be put down. Traces back to Impressive in the pedigree. (QH, PAINT)

HERDA shows up around 2 years of age and basically means the skin will split and slide off, basically right where the saddle would sit. Most of these horses are put down. Traces to Poco Bueno in the pedigree. (QH, PAINT) 

GBED fatal condition due to the bodies inability to store sugar. (QH, PAINT)

PSSM & MH are both related and can cause severe tying up (QH, PAINT)

These are all diseases that Quarter Horses and their related breeds can have. The do a combo test for $95 at the lab I linked to. They can also test for OLWS at the same time.


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## Kayella (Feb 11, 2012)

So this stud is not your's, then? If she is pregnant and you decided to abort the baby, I believe you can hold the stud owner responsible for all vet fees. I'm not sure how long the window is to get the Lute(abortion shot), and if you would be able to get the results of her disease panel back in that time frame. I know it can take at least a couple weeks to be returned. It really is a tough decision, I feel for you. If the baby comes out colored, he/she could be registered PtHA, so that is a plus in case the baby will be sold in the future.


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## BigGirlsRideWarmbloods (Mar 28, 2010)

Serenity said:


> Why can't I breed a rescue?


 
In some cases, and you may want to check with the contract you signed with the rescue, breeding a rescue horse voids the contract and you must return the horse. This is actually a fairly standard and boiler plate clause for most rescues. 
Now this might not be the case, but it is a legitimate reason.





Serenity said:


> why does my horse have to be registered? The stallion is registered, I already know that and why can't I breed a rescue?


 
The horse doesn't *HAVE* to be registered, HOWEVER, unregistered horses, tend to have a not so great time in life. And just because it bred with a registered stallion doesn't automatically make it eligible for registration.

As an example: If the stallion were a TB, just b/c you bred with a TB doesn't mean you can register the foal with the Jockey Club.

If it were a AQHA stallion, it doesn't automatically mean it gets AQHA papers.

Typically to be register both parents have to be registered with the same group for thefoal to be eligible. he few registries that require only one parent to be registered are Warmbloods, in which case the foal will have to be inspected before the breed association.

OR they are the equivalents of the Continental Kennel Club; and they're just a group trying legitimize horse-puppy-mills and ignorant back-yard-breeders. In these cases they're not worth the papers they're printed on.
Horses with papers, generally sell for more money, are more in demand and have an automatic stamp of quality attached to them (even though that last ideal is hogwash).

The hard facts are, as much as there are no bad horses, there is NO demand for _Oops _babies. At least not long term good homes. Even if it DID have papers, that’s not a guarantee either.

Slaughter auctions are filled every month with well bred registered horses that still end up in dog food or on dinner plates.



There is a great quote from a Benedictine nun, named Sister Joan Chittister

"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. ... That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth."

And to a certain extent that is what the other commentor was talking about. The likely hood of an _Oops baby_ horse suffering at some point is statistcally 99.99% Should it be when the age is measured in weeks and where a nervous system hasn't developed yet? 
Or is it kinder to let it be later in life after being ignored, starved, or beaten, or worse simply sold for food when its owner can't afford to keep it.
Breeding isn't about making making adoable babies, its about directing and perfecting a breed, for a specific purpose. 
It is 100% every day and every dollar about investment; Investing of time, money, resources, happiness, health, education, and love.
And if you don't have an excess in every one of those areas, then you need to expect problems because foals are a bank account blank hole and a complete time suck, and if you don't do it right they are dangerous.

I think these are the warnings that the other posted is trying to convey.
I am a breeder and an agent, and as a breeder I can tell you that the reasons my horses come back to me (b/c I will always take one of my horses back no questions to ensure they have a good life, all quality breeders do) and as an agent of Sport Horses, the top three reasons why people get rid of their horses:
1. They don't have the money to keep it.
2. They're getting a divorce and don't have the money, (and usually they don't have money b/c of the horse).
3. They are going off to college and don't have the time to sell it or the money to keep it.
I think other posters are just trying to warn you that, unless you can guarantee within a sixth sigma of your prediction model that none of these situations can ever happen. 
My best advise is to call the vet out and make sure 100% proof positive. And then pay the bill. And if the bill for the farm call, the drugs, the palpation, the ultrasound do not phase you at all and you can still have steak and lobster the rest of the week. Then you might have a chance.
But if you pay that bill and it hurts; like you're going to be eating hamburger helper instead of Applebee's to make up for it ... then call the vet out and get a flush, because a confirmed pregnancy bill is one of the cheaper expenses.


I promise I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just trying to be gentle and logical in an area, I am very experienced in.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Serenity if that foal is born healthy and with a decent conformation it will have value. Papers or not. Grades are not destined for the slaughter house anymore than a registered horse is. Just as many show horses are passed from home to home when their owners want a more advanced horse.
Only 500 - 750,000 horses are sent to slaughter every year there are over 7,000,000 horses in the US.
as long as you take the time to take the time to train that foal its probably going to be OK.
I have rescued over 10 horses in the last 2 years. I have sent them to be trained professionally. All have have found good homes for a good price . 1,000- 3,000 $ all have been grade. Shalom


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Appy, it's partially the "none of your Beezwax" arguement and partially it's because she stated very clearly in her 2nd post on this topic,
> 
> "If she's pregnant I'm deffinently going through with her pregnancy."
> 
> ...


Well that may depend on the level of knowledge that the statement came from. It may well be that (not saying that the Op is in this case) a person does not know the risks and costs involved. Saying "Oh I'm going to keep it" without knowing the facts is not a decision, it's a gut reaction. 

If knowing about the all the realities of risk to mare and foal the Op decides to let her carry the pregnancy, well then it is different. 

We all come from different places on this discussion, and for me the risks outweigh the benefits.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Most decisions are made by gut reactions. That does not make them bad choices. We all make decisions based on our own expericeinces, perceptions, and expectations.
I am with Dreamcatcher, once someone states that they have made up their mind the rest of us need to accept that decision.
We can make suggestions but to judge another persons reasoning based on your perceptions and experiences will only frustrate both parties.
We have no control over another individual. Or their property.
What the OP or any other member does with their horse does not concern me or any one other than the OP for that matter. Shalom


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

BigGirlsRideWarmbloods said:


> The horse doesn't *HAVE* to be registered, HOWEVER, unregistered horses, tend to have a not so great time in life. .


This is soooooooooooo wrong. Whether a horse is registered or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it has a "great time in life".

My grade horses had EXACTLY the same care and "great time in life" as my registered horses.

People flock to mustang sales, not knowing one thing about the parentage of the horse they are buying. What determines whether these horse have a "great time in life" ?? The person that buys them .. that's what.

'Round here where (some) people still USE there horses .. pretty is as pretty does. Give us a good working grade horse over a registered loo loo anyday ...

This whole "grade horses are sub-par and live on the wrong side of the tracks and have a poor life quality" .. is bull.

A horse's quality of life is dependent on the person that cares for them and loves them ... 

imo


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

"""The horse doesn't HAVE to be registered, HOWEVER, unregistered horses, tend to have a not so great time in life.""" 

this is a load of s** if have ever heard one. I have two grades and they have an amazing life. Never been mistreated in their life. The one grade is the best horse we have, that goes for his MIND and the SOUNDNESS of his BODY. he has never had one lame step in his life and he gets complimented everywhere we go. He is a stunning horse. But because he's a crossbreed makes him less worthy of having a good life?

I know you breed some fancy warmbloods, and that's great. But this comment makes you look like an uneducated fool. its not up to the horse if he's going to have a good quality of life. Its up to the owner. You can **** well be sure my grades will have better care then 60% of the entire registered stock in the world. Because I put them first.

ontop of that, I have 2 registered mares, APHA and AQHA. The AQHA is an impeccably bred made. She has 8 well known horses on her pedigree registration papers, big time money earners, top three barrel producing sires list for AQHA, and HofF inductees. And she's a grade one club foot. she's a touchy, sensitive, pain in the a** that cost me more then what she's worth when she was injured last year.

A lady that lives down the road from me has 40+ APHA horses. She shows big time with the circuit. You'd never be able to tell though. Her pasture fencing is junk, rusted wire and board, her horses are skinny, ribby, no muscle tone and wormy. These are her broodmares. She breeds, picks a few out and spends $30,000 a year on training fees for her stallion and 2 two year olds, but can't buy enough hay and dewormer to properly care for ALL her horses. On top of that, her stallion is frame overo as are ALL of her mares. Every last one of them. Talk about irresponsible.

yeah I'd say my grades have a pretty darn good life compared to a lot of registered horses out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> Most decisions are made by gut reactions. That does not make them bad choices. We all make decisions based on our own expericeinces, perceptions, and expectations.


That is what we may term an uninformed decision, our own experience, perception and expectation may not give us the info we need to make an _informed_ decision.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I believe I am correct in thinking, that early on in this message thread, the OP stated she already had one foal from this stallion. If so, then she should be thoroughly aquainted with foaling and all it entails. However, she could have purchased the foal from the stallion owner.

Regardless, one hopes that if there is indeed another foal on the way, they have now improved all their fencing, so no more escapes. This will be important when the foal is born. I'm also thinking that the stallion owner should have him in stallion-proof fencing, so he doesn't get out and a mare doesn't get in. Most usually it is stallions who break through poor fencing to get to mares, rather than the other way around. 

Of course this entire thread might mean nothing, if the mare is not pregnant. If that is the case, then all that needs to be done is to put up secure fencing. This for the mare and stallion owner, to prevent further unplanned breedings.

If there is a baby on the way, or if the OP ever decides to breed in the future, then she has been given lots of excellent advice on this forum, as to what genetic problems _must_ be checked for, before breeding any two horses. Since the stallion owner seems to not even have stallion proof fencing, I'm wondering whether he/she has had the stallion checked for possible genetic problems or would be willing to, if the OPs mare is pregnant. 

Lets hope everything goes smoothly and that the OP stays here and keeps us posted. Even if her mare isn't in foal, we'd still love to see pictures of her.

Lizzie


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Serenity, if the stallion is a Paint, you could probably register the resulting foal as a Pinto, even if it is solid coloured. Not that it is terribly important, but something you could look into if you wanted. 

As others have said, it's definitely a good idea to check for genetic disorders. The link Dreamcatcher provided to you is a good place to start, that's the same place (and I believe it was also by dreamcather's recommendation) I went with to have my mare tested and they were very fast, even for me who was sending samples from Canada. Whatever the outcome may be, I wish you the best and hope everything works out for you and your mare.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Just in case others think I am saying grade horses are destined to have poor lives. That is not what I was saying.

I have a barn full of grade horses who have fabulous lives. They have top quality feed. They all have custom fit saddles and are pampered. They are our school horses who are irreplaceable in our eyes.

What my point was on the not being registered thing is. In todays economy money is tight. People are hung up on registries and a set of papers. A horse with a set of papers has a higher chance of being sold and re-homed then a grade horse does. Its just a very sad fact.

Does this mean registered horses do not go to slaughter? Nope, the kill pen is full of reg TB's, WB's and QH's. However the grade horses do outnumber the papered horses. Its sad, but its true.

A horse having papers increases its chances of being re-homed.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I believe I am correct in thinking, that early on in this message thread, the OP stated she already had one foal from this stallion. If so, then she should be thoroughly aquainted with foaling and all it entails. However, she could have purchased the foal from the stallion owner.
> 
> Regardless, one hopes that if there is indeed another foal on the way, they have now improved all their fencing, so no more escapes. This will be important when the foal is born. I'm also thinking that the stallion owner should have him in stallion-proof fencing, so he doesn't get out and a mare doesn't get in. Most usually it is stallions who break through poor fencing to get to mares, rather than the other way around.
> 
> ...


The foal wasn't purchased. He bred with another grade mare we have and she had a smooth birth in February. We also have a securely fenced stall area where we put the horses if one falls sick or if there close to having a foal.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I will keep everyone posted. I marked her next heat cycle on my calendar. The stallion is really respectful of the fence and doesn't try to get through to the mares. My mare just really wants attention when she's in heat and she's very persistent.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Serenity that stallion may respect that fence now but he already has learned if he gets through HE BREEDS.
If that mare cycles again dont be surprised if you have a visitor in your pasture.
Stallions test any fence when a mare is in heat.
Good luck. Shalom


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

NBEventer said:


> Just in case others think I am saying grade horses are destined to have poor lives. That is not what I was saying.
> 
> I have a barn full of grade horses who have fabulous lives. They have top quality feed. They all have custom fit saddles and are pampered. They are our school horses who are irreplaceable in our eyes.
> 
> ...


I agree, but would like to add a little something here.

In my opinion, it is incredibly difficult to breed responsibly, if one knows absolutely nothing about the background of an animal, whether it be horses or dogs. Being registered and/or knowing the pedigree of a given animal, gives us an enormous amount of information about not only the horse in question, but -if we wish to do our homework, a great deal of information about the horses close up in that horse's pedigree. What the conformation was like, possibly their temperament was known and of course, possible genetic problems which they might have carried or expressed. Knowing the background of a horse, one could more easily discover what that animal might have produced previously. The main thing, is to be able to tell how closely related or not, the two animals are. These are some of the things, responsible breeders want to know. Responsible breeders might be wanting to do an inbreeding, linebreeding or a complete outcross. If one doesn't know the background, then any breeding is iffy at best. 

So for me anyway, it is important to know not only the horse/s in question, but as much as possible, about those in the pedigree. Registration helps one accomplish this. Certainly horses with unknown backgrounds can be bred and produce successful offspring of quality, but it is much more difficult. Willy-nilly breedings of horses with unknown backgrounds and done by owners without experience and a very keen and knowledgeable eye, almost always produces offspring of questionable quality and/or ability. And yes, such horses are more difficult to place and find good homes.

Lizzie


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

OP are you prepared if you have to deal with something like what happened in this post - http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/sunnys-foaling-thread-135331/page5/#post2704274

Also I suggest you get an US 14-16 days post breeding. It will detect twining and the ability to reduce to one pregnancy since you are determined to go through with it, and if she is even pregnant at all. Waiting on heat cycles isn't a sure way to determine pregnancy... More so since there are horses who will still show that they are cycling even with pregnancy. 

DB before you jump all over the "most mares foal fine" tirade you get on, this has happened to a few posters recently, not just dead in utero either. It happens more often than people want to admit. Yes, most of the time things go fine, doesn't mean things will ALWAYS go fine. This is a cruel truth that people who are breeding willy nilly need to face. That breeding isn't putting two horses with working reproduction tracts together and getting a bouncing foal in the end. Sticking fingers in ears and going "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" doesn't change the fact that pregnancies in ANY creature can be dangerous and result in deaths of the offspring as well as the possibility of losing the mother.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I agree, but would like to add a little something here.
> 
> In my opinion, it is incredibly difficult to breed responsibly, if one knows absolutely nothing about the background of an animal, whether it be horses or dogs. Being registered and/or knowing the pedigree of a given animal, gives us an enormous amount of information about not only the horse in question, but -if we wish to do our homework, a great deal of information about the horses close up in that horse's pedigree. What the conformation was like, possibly their temperament was known and of course, possible genetic problems which they might have carried or expressed. Knowing the background of a horse, one could more easily discover what that animal might have produced previously. The main thing, is to be able to tell how closely related or not, the two animals are. These are some of the things, responsible breeders want to know. Responsible breeders might be wanting to do an inbreeding, linebreeding or a complete outcross. If one doesn't know the background, then any breeding is iffy at best.
> 
> ...


Not only what you posted Lizzie, but knowing an animal's pedigree help people know if an animal is predisposed to a genetic condition...


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

Will you guys please stop saying I'm willy nilly breeding? I get it. This foal isn't going to be up to the expectations of all other nice bloodline foals but if all signs are okay for her then I will allow her to have the foal. It was accident. No one was home to stop it. I will have her checked for diseases and twins. I will have the stallion checked also. I will keep everyone updated if she is pregnant and ask questions and get advice. I have 2 homes for the baby to go to if money is to tight.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

We're having a vet out to geld the stallion, I will have the vet also look at my mare.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Good luck with both the gelding and the mare check, keep us updated


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> OP are you prepared if you have to deal with something like what happened in this post - http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/sunnys-foaling-thread-135331/page5/#post2704274
> 
> Also I suggest you get an US 14-16 days post breeding. It will detect twining and the ability to reduce to one pregnancy since you are determined to go through with it, and if she is even pregnant at all. Waiting on heat cycles isn't a sure way to determine pregnancy... More so since there are horses who will still show that they are cycling even with pregnancy.
> 
> DB before you jump all over the "most mares foal fine" tirade you get on, this has happened to a few posters recently, not just dead in utero either. It happens more often than people want to admit. Yes, most of the time things go fine, doesn't mean things will ALWAYS go fine. *This is a cruel truth that people who are breeding willy nilly need to face.* That breeding isn't putting two horses with working reproduction tracts together and getting a bouncing foal in the end. Sticking fingers in ears and going "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" doesn't change the fact that pregnancies in ANY creature can be dangerous and result in deaths of the offspring as well as the possibility of losing the mother.


This is a cruel truth that ANYONE that is breeding needs to face. A mare can be of the best bloodlines in the world, with the best care in the world, and lose a foal or die during foaling... as we've seen right here on this forum.. this year. I think most people know that.

I believe that is why the OP .. whose mare was bred accidently .. came on and asked for help ....

She can be informed of the inherent risks without all the "irresponsible" and "willy nilly" comments..

imo.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> DB before you jump all over the "most mares foal fine" tirade you get on, this has happened to a few posters recently, not just dead in utero either. It happens more often than people want to admit. Yes, most of the time things go fine, doesn't mean things will ALWAYS go fine. This is a cruel truth that people who are breeding willy nilly need to face. That breeding isn't putting two horses with working reproduction tracts together and getting a bouncing foal in the end. Sticking fingers in ears and going "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" doesn't change the fact that pregnancies in ANY creature can be dangerous and result in deaths of the offspring as well as the possibility of losing the mother.



Yes, and yes again, so dear to me because although I bred a few foals here, and never had a problem, it occurred to me while I was waiting for Ace to foal, that I emotionally would no be able to cope if I lost either her or the foal. That's when I quit, the mares I thought most of, I didn't want to risk a disaster. 

I still have one mare that I would love to have a foal from, but every time I think about it the risk, even if it is a tiny teeny risk, is just to much for me to take.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I will  oh just a random question.. When a foal is born is still has its umbilical cord attached.. When it falls off is is it normal for there to be a lump where it's belly button is supposed to be? If so, how long until that lump goes away?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

texasgal said:


> "willy nilly" comments..


Tell me truthfully, am I the only one childlike enough to have a little chuckle every time I read "willy nilly" when talking about breeding?









Oh I am, fair enough


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Serenity... that could be an umbilical hernia. It depends on how big it is as to whether it will "go away" or not. Some need a minor surgery to close up to prevent complications. 

Google "equine umbilical hernias" .. you'll get alot of info there. Then have the vet look at it while he's out..

Good question.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

Thank you  how does the foal get that?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Serenity said:


> Will you guys please stop saying I'm willy nilly breeding? I get it. This foal isn't going to be up to the expectations of all other nice bloodline foals but if all signs are okay for her then I will allow her to have the foal. It was accident. No one was home to stop it. I will have her checked for diseases and twins. I will have the stallion checked also. I will keep everyone updated if she is pregnant and ask questions and get advice. I have 2 homes for the baby to go to if money is to tight.


My comment wasn't directed necessarily at you, Serenity, but to anyone who breeds without knowing anything about the horses they breed.

I think I'm missing something here though. I think you said in a previous post that you bred another grade mare you own, to this same stallion. What happened to that foal? I was also under the impression that the stallion belonged to a neighbour, but now I'm thinking you also own the stallion, correct? This since you said you would now geld the stallion. That seems to be a responsible thing to do I think. I'm sure he will be a happier boy. Just remember, after gelding, to still keep him away from your mares for six weeks. 

What do you do with your horses, other than breed? I see you are in California where we have tons of great shows in all areas and almost every weekend. And of course, great trails and mountainous areas to ride.

Lizzie


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Serenity said:


> Thank you  how does the foal get that?


From this googled link:

Umbilical Hernia | TheHorse.com

The area of the abdominal wall surrounding the umbilicus is one of the last areas of the body wall to close during the development of the fetus. If there is any defect in the complete closure of the body wall in this area, it will result in an umbilical hernia. So, a foal can be born with an umbilical hernia, or the hernia can develop during the first week of life.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

The stallion belongs to my aunt. She bred him with the other grade horse and that baby is going to be 4 months old in about a week. She's healthy and energetic and growing fast! My aunt is the one that breeds, mine wasn't intentional breeding. Other then the breeding though, we trail ride up the mountain trails and ride in gymkhanas. Our trails actually lead to the gymkhana grounds.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

FeatheredFeet said:


> My comment wasn't directed necessarily at you, Serenity, but to anyone who breeds without knowing anything about the horses they breed.
> 
> I think I'm missing something here though. I think you said in a previous post that you bred another grade mare you own, to this same stallion. What happened to that foal? I was also under the impression that the stallion belonged to a neighbour, but now I'm thinking you also own the stallion, correct? This since you said you would now geld the stallion. That seems to be a responsible thing to do I think. I'm sure he will be a happier boy. Just remember, after gelding, to still keep him away from your mares for six weeks.
> 
> ...


Lizzie, I think the stallion and the other mare are owned by a relative.. this might be why you are confused when she used the term "we" to refer to horses that are on the same premises. It sounds like she keeps her horse on the property with this other relative's horses.

The other mare foaled in February, I believe she has stated previously.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Serenity said:


> The stallion belongs to my aunt. She bred him with the other grade horse and that baby is going to be 4 months old in about a week. She's healthy and energetic and growing fast! My aunt is the one that breeds, mine wasn't intentional breeding. Other then the breeding though, *we trail ride up the mountain trails and ride in gymkhanas. Our trails actually lead to the gymkhana grounds*.


Sounds beautiful .. and fun!


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

texasgal said:


> Lizzie, I think the stallion and the other mare are owned by a relative.. this might be why you are confused when she used the term "we" to refer to horses that are on the same premises. It sounds like she keeps her horse on the property with this other relative's horses.
> 
> The other mare foaled in February, I believe she has stated previously.


That is all correct. My aunt wanted to breed her mares before the stallion is gelded and she did. I just want him to be a gelding already.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Well, hopefully your mare isn't bred and life can continue on as usual .. and if she is, you are doing your research and learning what you can.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

OK. I understand now. Is it your four month old who has the umbilical hernia? What has the vet said about it?

My youngest granddaughter is just starting in gymkhana and our old Haffie who has been doing it now for many years, has just been retired. He won't like being retired, but he's at least 30 now and we know he must be just a pasture puff, since he has arthritis. If you do gymkhana in S. Cal., you will know Dandy and his rider, Katie. 

Lizzie


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I'm hoping she isn't bred. She's a good gymkhana horse and I won't be able to ride her for a while if she has a baby.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

FeatheredFeet said:


> OK. I understand now. Is it your four month old who has the umbilical hernia? What has the vet said about it?
> 
> My youngest granddaughter is just starting in gymkhana and our old Haffie who has been doing it now for many years, has just been retired. He won't like being retired, but he's at least 30 now and we know he must be just a pasture puff, since he has arthritis. If you do gymkhana in S. Cal., you will know Dandy and his rider, Katie.
> 
> Lizzie


Well, my aunt has herself convinced it's just an "outy bellybutton" psh, okay. I'll tell her today what it is and tell her to call a vet. About Dandy and Katie, where in S. Cal.? I'm located in waaaaaay Southern, Ca. I'm by the border of Mexico. I ride my horse to the border all the time.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Well the vet should have seen the foal at least a couple of times by now and told your aunt if there was something wrong. 

Since you are waaaay south, I doubt you would have been in contact with those of us who are a lot north of LA.

Lizzie


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

Yes, I know the vet should have been down here a few times by now. Though, my aunt seems to always know what's going on and never needs a vet. But that's not the case. I'll make sure a vet comes down and checks my mare, the foal, and gelds the stallion.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Never needs a vet? Yikes. I admit we seldom need a vet for much, but what about checking a newborn for IgG levels and what about shots youngsters and older horses need? Does your aunt do all this herself? 

Lizzie


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Lizzie, I don't think the OP has any control over her aunts breeding practices ....


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

NDappy I dont know what tirade you are referring to. MOST mares do foal without complications. Thats an undisputed fact.
It is far more dangerous to ride a horse in any advanced discipline than to breed that mare. One is natural , breeding, one is not riding. Or keeping a horse in a stall for any length of time.
I state my opinion one based on 46 years of horse ownership 30 years of breeding.
I never asked that you agree with it. However when someone continually ask the tired question "are you prepared to......"
Any one so paranoid over losing a foal or so attached to the mare never needs to breed, or ride for that matter.
If you are not financially secure , or IMO own your own property, you should not breed period.
The OP is trying to learn here.
Giving her advice to prevent complications is all well and good. She needs it.
Trying to frighten her into your way of thinking is about control.
Taking offense because someone gives another opinion belies low self esteem. Shalom


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

No, I never did think she had. It does sound though, that the OP might have learned what she does know, from an aunt who isn't necessarily doing everything correctly. 

Lizzie


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

FeatheredFeet said:


> No, I never did think she had. It does sound though, that the OP might have learned what she does know, from an aunt who isn't necessarily doing everything correctly.
> 
> Lizzie


..... and why, when it affected her and her mare, she chose to come on the board and learn more .....


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

texasgal said:


> ..... and why, when it affected her and her mare, she chose to come on the board and learn more .....


Well, even though we've had a few ups and downs with the OP, I tend to think she's young and _has_ been willing to learn from a lot of advice, given here by others.

Lizzie


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I came here for advice because I've just recently realized how little my aunt knows about everything. She does try to do it all herself and when she can't then it's no big deal. I'm making sure she gets a vet.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I don't mean like "it's no big deal" literally. It's just that way to her.


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

Have you had the vet out yet to check your mare? I may have missed a post somewhere, if so I'm sorry. Just curious if you've found anything out yet!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> The OP is trying to learn here.
> Giving her advice to prevent complications is all well and good. She needs it.
> Trying to frighten her into your way of thinking is about control.
> Taking offense because someone gives another opinion belies low self esteem. Shalom


And people are trying to inform her, period.

No one is trying to frighten her, just giving her the benefit of our own experiences, and those that others have shared with us.

As to the last comment, maybe you should ponder that one some more:wink: Just saying like, God Bless

Oh and just so I'm not confused, 30 years of breeding sounds like a long long time, but only 2 years ago you said on another forum that you had bred 20 foals, so that isn't a great deal of experience really. Being an educated man you will know that even if the odds are 1 in 100 of something going wrong, it doesn't mean that a tragedy wont happen on breeding #1.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

morganarab94 said:


> Have you had the vet out yet to check your mare? I may have missed a post somewhere, if so I'm sorry. Just curious if you've found anything out yet!


Not yet. The vet is going to check her when we get the stallion gelded.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I just told my aunt about the hernia and she's going to have the vet look at it


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## DeliciousD (Feb 25, 2013)

Serenity said:


> Not yet. The vet is going to check her when we get the stallion gelded.


Haven't you just posted in another thread that the mare is expecting?

Sorry to say this but troll?

OP you have stated on this http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/whos-planning-2014-foal-187434/ thread she is expecting?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Golden Horse I have only bred MY arabians for 20 years. In that time I have bred 20 foals not including the 3 this year or any of the foals sired by my stallions for outside mares. Add another 50 if you want to be technical.
My family has been breeding QHs for 70 years and before that generations of riding horses. We have owned this land since 1837. Horses have been bred continously since then.
Now I dont need you to validate anything I say. I refuseto validate your opinions for you.
Since it must bother you so much that I dont agree with the way you are presenting your opinion or have one of my own. My last sentence in my previous post might just apply to you.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I said I wasn't planning but now expecting, meaning if she's pregnant. I posted this the day I found out she was with the stallion.. A lot was going on. I'm not a troll? Now everyone's going to think I am though.. Ugh.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

dbarabians said:


> If you are not financially secure , or IMO own your own property, you should not breed period.



I'm sorry, I'd rather have someone in a barn with knowledgeable people VS. some absolute substandard fencing, crappy pens, and letting ungelded yearlings running with yearling fillys. :???:


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Not everyone, Serenity...


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

dbarabians said:


> Golden Horse I have only bred MY arabians for 20 years. In that time I have bred 20 foals not including the 3 this year or any of the foals sired by my stallions for outside mares. Add another 50 if you want to be technical.
> My family has been breeding QHs for 70 years and before that generations of riding horses. We have owned this land since 1837. Horses have been bred continously since then.
> Now I dont need you to validate anything I say. I refuseto validate your opinions for you.
> Since it must bother you so much that I dont agree with the way you are presenting your opinion or have one of my own. My last sentence in my previous post might just apply to you.


Just wondering, what's the worst situation you've had with breeding your mares?


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I was just out with my mare to grain her.. I saw on her, lady parts.. She had dry white crusty stuff.. I don't know if that's from "flirting with the stallion", pee, or what..


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

When is your vet coming out to look at her and geld the stallion? If it was me I would've had the vet out as soon as possible. Everyday is another day of not knowing...I'm not trying to be rude at all I just think that maybe you should have the vet out like real real soon...


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I'll ask my aunt when she's having the vet out and if it's not soon enough I'll call the vet out.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Serenity, allow me to apologize for some of the less than civil post you have read.
You seem young and willing to learn. Its sad that others choose to ignore those qualities and only want to argue. Most adults have mature conversations not all but most.
I have lost a foal of my own and a couple from rescues. Nothing we could have done to prevent the loss. My foal was positioned wrong and it took to long to foal. The mare survived and had a very nice filly 2 years later.
The rescues probably lost their foals due to malnutrition.
It happens. That life. In the 53 years of my life my family and I have lost about 5 foals and never a mare.
You need to be prepared for the worst. Get the US, and ensure she is current on all her shots. Take every precaution you can. All that is good advice. Including getting the genetic test done.
I also think NDappy and Golden Horse want to help you avoid having to deal with the loss of an anticipated foal. Once again your young there is plenty of time for you to learn the hard lessons in life. Some not all can be avoided.
There is no need to worry the whole 11 months or more a mare carries a foal.
You will worry enough during foal watch.
If she is pregnant you have plenty of time to ask questions and become informed. Educate your self and feed that mare a good quality hay/ pasture and ration in her last trimester. Shalom


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

dbarabians said:


> Serenity, allow me to apologize for some of the less than civil post you have read.
> You seem young and willing to learn. Its sad that others choose to ignore those qualities and only want to argue. Most adults have mature conversations not all but most.
> I have lost a foal of my own and a couple from rescues. Nothing we could have done to prevent the loss. My foal was positioned wrong and it took to long to foal. The mare survived and had a very nice filly 2 years later.
> The rescues probably lost their foals due to malnutrition.
> ...


Thank you for the help  what if the rescue is healthy and no longer malnourished? Can she still have problems due to the neglect in the past? My horse is healthy now. She just needs a few more pounds because she was treated for strongyles.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

She should be alright serenity. If she had a bad case of worms for a long time ask your vet about anything that might be a problem. They will know.
Never be afraid to ask for help. That takes courage and wisdom.
All the posters have given you sound advice about your mare.
I dont think anyone thinks your irresponsible or at fault. Dont take everything you read here personally. Even if it is meant as an insult. The insult says a lot about the person being petty and immature. Not one thing about you.
Since you have the vet coming out may I make a suggestion?
Go back over the thread and make a list of questions for the vet.
Keep us posted and once again good luck. Shalom


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

I'll make a list for sure! She was wormed when I got her and she was fine but her winter coat wouldn't come out so I wormed her recently with zimecterin gold.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Serenity, not everyone unfairly/aggressively judges people seeking help. I, like db, must take care to approach my patients without judgement or bias, or else I will never be able to truly help them. I see time and time again, on forums where people have anonymity, that there are always those few dispense with basic courtesy and respect. (If anyone is offended by this, the question then is, why? - unless it applies to you) Don't let them bother you; they are not important. You, and your horse, are.
Take the information that is helpful, which has been offered from knowledgeable people, and disregard the rest. You'll find many here are very motivated to offer sincere assistance.
The health and welfare of your mare is the priority here, and there's been quite a few great points made. Making a list for the Vet is a great idea, as we always forget to ask "the doctor" when he'she is present, whether it's a human or equine patient. Good luck with your girl and keep us informed.


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Good luck with your mare! Please share some pics of her with us, and welcome to the forum!


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

Druydess said:


> Serenity, not everyone unfairly/aggressively judges people seeking help. I, like db, must take care to approach my patients without judgement or bias, or else I will never be able to truly help them. I see time and time again, on forums where people have anonymity, that there are always those few dispense with basic courtesy and respect. (If anyone is offended by this, the question then is, why? - unless it applies to you) Don't let them bother you; they are not important. You, and your horse, are.
> Take the information that is helpful, which has been offered from knowledgeable people, and disregard the rest. You'll find many here are very motivated to offer sincere assistance.
> The health and welfare of your mare is the priority here, and there's been quite a few great points made. Making a list for the Vet is a great idea, as we always forget to ask "the doctor" when he'she is present, whether it's a human or equine patient. Good luck with your girl and keep us informed.


Thank you  I'll keep everyone informed.. But now another thing is wrong with her. When it started to warm up my mare started getting dry skin on her jawline and face. I put mtg on her and it has helped so much! But now on her face it's like.. Not nice skin. It literally looks like moisturizer flakes of dry skin. I can scrape it right off and it'll take more fur off. She's having the same problem on her back. The problem on her back is I used a bad saddle pad on her back and it rubbed her raw. But it's doing the same thing her face is doing. I try to look at it but it's so sensitive to her.. She'll flick her tail and threaten to bite. She'll let me give her a bath and wash it but nothing else. It was starting to get better and was almost completely healed but now, it seems like the mtg is regrowing hair but making her skin.. Gross. I haven't been able to ride her in 2 weeks but I do lunge her for excersize. I wanted to get a good pick but there's mtg on it so there's no way you'd be able to see what I'm talking about. Her back is hurting but her face isn't.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Could be a number of things like allergies, fugi etc. Since she's been like this for two weeks, I imagine the vet has seen her. What did he/she say?

Lizzie


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## sssmith (Apr 11, 2010)

Serenity said:


> Thank you  I'll keep everyone informed.. But now another thing is wrong with her. When it started to warm up my mare started getting dry skin on her jawline and face. I put mtg on her and it has helped so much! But now on her face it's like.. Not nice skin. It literally looks like moisturizer flakes of dry skin. I can scrape it right off and it'll take more fur off. She's having the same problem on her back. The problem on her back is I used a bad saddle pad on her back and it rubbed her raw. But it's doing the same thing her face is doing. I try to look at it but it's so sensitive to her.. She'll flick her tail and threaten to bite. She'll let me give her a bath and wash it but nothing else. It was starting to get better and was almost completely healed but now, it seems like the mtg is regrowing hair but making her skin.. Gross. I haven't been able to ride her in 2 weeks but I do lunge her for excersize. I wanted to get a good pick but there's mtg on it so there's no way you'd be able to see what I'm talking about. Her back is hurting but her face isn't.


I have a little horse now that I got in January. She was infested with strongyles, and as her winter coat started to shed, she too lost patches of hair and it seemed to make her sore where the hair was falling out. Idk if its from the worm infestation or the chemicals in the wormer, but definitely one or both. I didn't put anything on it, I left it alone and now she is completely shed out and the spots have grown new hair, and no scars... I'm not saying NOT to put medicine on it, and I would ask the vet when he comes to check her, but hopefully it's something similar to my girl, and it will straighten itself out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I meant 'fungi' in that post. Could be rain rot, but living as she does, in the San Diego area, I doubt that is the cause. Could be lice. 

By the sound of it though, until a cause is known, no saddle pads, tack or grooming equipment should be shared with another horse. Also the mare herself should be quarantined for the safety of other horses near her. 

Lizzie


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

The vets coming out in a few days. It is growing back but it hurts her.. It usually just hurts if I put the MTG on. If I brush it it's usually fine. I'm gonna lay off the MTG and see if that helps.

I'm getting a fungal shampoo to bathe her in and see if that helps.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

The saddle pad took the fur off and left some sores. Anything I can do to treat those?


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Serenity said:


> The saddle pad took the fur off and left some sores. Anything I can do to treat those?


You are using a saddle which obviously doesn't fit. I doubt it was the saddle pad.

Lizzie


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Generally speaking a saddle pad is not going to leave sores. However, a poor fitting saddle certainly can.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

HowClever, who is that handsome horse in your avatar? 

Lizzie


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

He's my 2 and a half year old Clydie x WB, Flirt


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Very nice and I'd like to see the other half please.

Lizzie


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thank you, I think he's pretty wonderful . Will post the link that has more photos from that show, just so I don't hijack this thread with photos of my boy! http://www.horseforum.com/horse-shows/flirts-2nd-outing-ever-*photos*-175194/


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

2 1/2? he looks huge how tall is he?
I agree with feathered feet he is very good looking. Did you intentionally breed him? Shalom


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks db. Have PMed you.


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## Serenity (May 5, 2013)

She never got any sores until I switched the pad. I'm looking into a new saddle anyways and I have some backup saddles if it is the saddle. I'll try some other saddles when her back gets better and see how those fit her.


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