# Critique front feet?



## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

What do you think of this file job? I'd love to hear how it could be improved.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Has it been like that for while? Or it's like first trim on hoofs in very bad shape? If it's for while then I'd say it looks pretty bad, if it's 1st or 2nd trim on hoofs, which were in horrible condition, then it's not bad - just takes time to improve.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

What I see right off is that the hoof wall has been filed too high and there needs to be a stronger bevel(mustang roll) at ground level to aid breakover and also to keep chipping under control.


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

I totally agree with appyt 100%


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> Has it been like that for while? Or it's like first trim on hoofs in very bad shape? If it's for while then I'd say it looks pretty bad, if it's 1st or 2nd trim on hoofs, which were in horrible condition, then it's not bad - just takes time to improve.


Yes, it's the second trim and before then they had not been done in years. I should have said that in my first post, sorry!

Appyt, could you show me an example photo? I'm having a hard time seeing what you are describing.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I think they would look better with some steel nailed to them. That's a pretty bad crack at the toe and it could lame your horse if it went any deeper.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> I think they would look better with some steel nailed to them. That's a pretty bad crack at the toe and it could lame your horse if it went any deeper.


I believe you can put something like "braces" on that crack. My farrier explained it to me once (my neighbor's OTTB has similar split), but I don't quite remember the details. But yes, he said it's better to take care of something like that rather then leave it on its own. 

For the hoofs being neglected for so long I personally think it's a very decent trim. While there are still flares and those cracks all over it's usually impossible to get rid of all of that in just one trim (and sometime even in 2 or 3).


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Just putting a shoe on will keep the crack from spreading unless they are really riding hard on hard surfaces.


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## IllComeALopin (Apr 6, 2010)

I agree with Kevin.

Normally I'm 100% for shoeless-ness. But until you have healthy growth and a a good foot the shoes help to keep the feet from falling apart. I'm going through the same thing myself, putting shoes on until I have a hoof healthy enough to hold its own... one without chips and cracks. Honestly you could mustang roll my horse's feet daily and his hoof would still chip away just from being turned out in a 10 acre grassy pasture!

Feet take a LONG time to improve. Don't expect over night changes.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Are you doing your own hoof care?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I know you were asking only about the fronts, but the back that is showing in the first picture - YIKES, that is one heck of a chunk missing from that one.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Sure, let me fine one... Shoes are not necessary as i can attest to with cracks. Improvement can be made faster without them. Properly trimmed hooves do not chip daily on grassy pastures. 

This is a very good view of what I am talking about. Trim at an angle from ground level(inner wall to outer wall) but do not file off wall above the bevel.


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

^ Thanks Appyt! That was very helpful. 



themacpack said:


> Are you doing your own hoof care?


Unfortuntely, yes. The situation is that I'm exercising this horse for a family friend. The horse is in a very hilly grass pasture 24/7 (in a rather wet climate) and I have no idea how long it's been since he's been seen by a farrier/vet. I have informed his owners to the best of my abilities of the importance of hoof care. They are not able to afford it at this time, although I have stressed its importance numerous times. If I had the funds, I would pay for a farrier to come out myself. But I don't, so I have started to file them a little bit when I go out there. I was taught how to use a hoof rasp to tidy up my own horse's feet between trims, but I don't have or know how to use nippers, so it's slow progress.

Just for reference, this is how they looked in Feb. when I first started working on them.
Front:








Back:








I'll be working on the back feet next week and will try to get photos again to be critiqued. Thanks so much for eveyone's helpful input!


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

kudo's to you for working on them. Go to Barefoot Hoof Care by Amber Mohr and see if you can get some tips via the pics etc. These sites may be of help as well.
http://www.ironfreehoof.com/
http://www.barefoothorse.com/
http://www.healthyhoof.com/


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Im not one to say every horse needs to be barefoot, but I personally think it would be helpful in this situation with some good beveling and constant touch ups to stop the cracking. I think shoeing him would just creatwe more of a problem especially since you are hte one trimming and such and do not have a professional. It makes more holes to crack through and prevents you from constantly being able to touch it up...

I think it looks like a good improvement though, like appyt said give it a good bevel and mustang roll to keep his wall off the ground and heep him working and he should grow out pretty nicely.


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

You can still rasp a bit more of the bulge out, look in your 3rd photo down. See how the line that comes down from the coronet band goes nice and straight and then there is a bulge? Get rid of that as much as you can. For that reason, you have not filed too high. Getting rid of those bulges will help eliminate flaring which causes cracking.


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## Chella (May 23, 2009)

shoes will not correct the problem. They will make it worse. The trim job looks nice for coming off very bad hooves. Get the book by Pete Rameys book here is his website
Pete Ramey hoof care heals founder in horse’s navicular disease farrier
It has a ton of pictures and info. You are on the right track good for you. Did you do the trim? Its hard work!!!


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Also look at Barefoot for Soundness

Tons of photos and info to help you out.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Appyt said:


> Sure, let me fine one... Shoes are not necessary as i can attest to with cracks.


I just wanted to back this statement up with my own personal experience. My draft cross gelding came to me with flared, overgrown feet, and had pretty bad toe cracks on both fronts. With making sure to keep the quarters real short, and a good mustang roll, the crack is long, long gone. He's never had shoes on in his life, but his hoof care was definitely neglected before I got him.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Toms hooves were miserable when I first got them. Long, quarter cracks in each, flat soled, stretched whiteline, the whole shebang. I have been trimming him for a while now by myself with the help of the site I posted and he has lovely feet now. The cracks are gone, the sole is gaining concavity, he can walk on rocks like they are grass. Would shoes have been a quick fix? yes Would they have helped his cracks of sole? No, they would have put more stress on the wall keeping the cracks going, prevented me from doing constant work on them, aded holes, and kept his sole flat as a pancake....

Just wanted to add....


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> Toms hooves were miserable when I first got them. Long, quarter cracks in each, flat soled, stretched whiteline, the whole shebang. I have been trimming him for a while now by myself with the help of the site I posted and he has lovely feet now. The cracks are gone, the sole is gaining concavity, he can walk on rocks like they are grass. Would shoes have been a quick fix? yes Would they have helped his cracks of sole? No, they would have put more stress on the wall keeping the cracks going, prevented me from doing constant work on them, aded holes, and kept his sole flat as a pancake....
> 
> Just wanted to add....


Haha you and I were in the same boat, essentially! Claymore had toe cracks instead of quarter cracks, his quarters were badly flared, chipped, and trying to self trim. But he had the pancake flat, thin soles and would tiptoe across gravel. I still ride him booted off property, though I am probably getting close to where I don't need to anymore. The website you posted is great and one I bookmarked ages ago. I learned the most from Ramey's Under the Horse DVD series, it's awesome. I don't do the feet 100% on my own yet - not that confident yet - I do the main part of it, have farrier out to "check me" and advise every ten weeks to make sure I don't let anything get out of hand while I am still learning. However his last two trips he hasn't had to do anything to any of their feet


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Our old farrier and I email back and forth to keep up with his progress, I send her pics and videos so she can tell me what I am doing wrong if I make a mistake. She moved to Montana a while ago or I would have her do it. Her advice coupled with the site has made it really easy to learn. The only thing I have a problem with is all the bending over, kills my back, thank god he has impeccable foot manners(one of our first projects lol) and moves off with the slightest cluck or poke and cue... I have to get brave soon and work with moms new mare, poor thing has miserable little feet... Im thinking of just calling a professional to get them started they are so bad, after that I think I can pretty well keep them going. It is a godsend to have a farrier friend to go to for 1 on 1 though.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

You can still rasp a bit more of the bulge out, look in your 3rd photo down. See how the line that comes down from the coronet band goes nice and straight and then there is a bulge? Get rid of that as much as you can. For that reason, you have not filed too high. Getting rid of those bulges will help eliminate flaring which causes cracking. 
 __________________

Filing the bulges down will not eliminate flaring, but thinning the wall will cause walls to go splat when the thinned area nears the ground. Keeping a strong bevel in force will stop flaring as it keeps the weakened connection out of ground contact.


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

Thank you for the links, Appyt, Honeysuga, and Chella! My farrier told me about Pete Ramey when I was asking him about barefoot trimming a while back, but I never got the chance to look him up. I'm eager to start reading and soaking it all in.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Try posting your photos on this farrier forum. You will get much more knowledgeable advice.

The Farrier & Hoofcare Resource Center Forums - Powered by vBulletin


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

No she wont, she will get advice from farriers telling her to throw steel on his hooves. That is not more knowledgeable since she needs the cracks to grow out and shoes will not help that, they will just keep the hoof from cracking more without addressing the already present cracks.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The hoof will grow regardless of being shod or not and a shoe will help to keep the cracks from spreading and keep the horse more comfortable. There are some advocates of barefoot trimming under certain circumstances on that forum. Most of the frequent posters are experts in hoof care and will do whatever is needed to help the horse. They know far more about hoof anatomy and function than anybody that has posted on this thread (myself included).


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

The only thing I have against shoes for this particular horse is that they use the hoof wall itself to bear the weight of the horse, not the sole. If the wall is cracked to crap like on this horse, more load on it will make the cracks continue at the very least and get worse if done improperly. Sure they will still grow, but improve probably not so much. As hse mentioned, a farrier is not in the cards for her so advising one doesnt really apply and that is what 99% of farriers are going to advise, shoes. They are knowledgeable about shoes and how they relate to a hoof and horse, but if she cannot afford shoes what sense does it make for a person who is trained to SHOE a horse to advise her what to do? You said yourself in a thread not too long ago that a farrier trimming a barefoot horse will not do a barefoot trim, they are trained to shoe, not work with bare feet.

That is the only disagreeance I have with that advice Kevin. Should the situation be different I wouldnt have any. But as it is talking to a farrier will really do her little good since she isnt going to have the horse shod... For her situation I figured her best advice would come form the sites we posted and us since we have experience in exactly what she is doing, DIY barefoot trimming...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I see your point but it won't cost her much will it?


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Nope, you are right it wont. Im glad you see my point, didnt want you to think I was arguing just to argue.


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## Chella (May 23, 2009)

Kevinshorses why are you against barefoot? Or why do you think a shod foot is better? I am not being argumentitive I just want to know why you think so? I have lived through a quarter crack with padded bar shoes and have learned what has worked with my particular horse. Have you not had success with barefoot trims. I just like to injest all info I can - always learning. Yes I am a huge advocate of Pete Ramey and have read everything from Strausser and Jamie Jackson. I believe in a great discussion (heated even) for greater learning.  and the love of horses!


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## Quest (May 22, 2010)

I know this is an old post but I came across it while looking at others' barefoot trims. 

It looks like a 1/4 of lower wall was rasped on the hoof wall, and from what I have read that is a big no no since it weakens the hoof wall itself and causes the wall to weaken. Maybe thats why theres a slight bulge? I just wanted to mention that, not sure if anyone else has. I could be totally wrong as I am nowhere near an expert, but I am educating myself as much as I can and this bit of info is what I have come across.

Its been a few months now, how are her feet holding up? Would love to see some updates!


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