# Self-Taught Riding?



## kmacdougall

You cannot see the whole horse while riding it.
As I have said before - natural ability is one thing but there is no substitute for the help of a professional.


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## A knack for horses

I always have been encouraged to "srew around with horses". I don't mean do stupid stuff with them, but try things. 

That is how I learned to ask a horse to pivot. It had been puzzling me for about two years, and about two weeks ago I figured it out. I was just riding quietly around the pasture and I thought, "what if I put my foot a little out of postion?" So I put my right foot a little farther back than proper riding postion, and gave a few little kicks. And then the horse moved her hind end to the left! 

I was so excited that I got a horse to do it! Of course, My instructor was nearby, so I knew if something went terribly wrong, at least somebody would know what to do. 

Part of learning is discovery. I would try a few things by myself, but I still want an instructor or somebody knowledgeable around to correct me when I'm wrong or help me perfect my technique.


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## Scoutrider

Having a set of knowledgeable eyes on the ground can be invaluable for learning and applying advanced riding techniques regardless of discipline. As far as beginners go, a couple of months worth of lessons (at least) can be an excellent investment as far as safety and laying a solid foundation. A lot of people I know were born into horsey families, and taught general horsemanship by parents or other relatives. Not lessons per se, but watchful eyes and helping hands nonetheless. 

I personally took several years worth of formal lessons, but dropped them when my instructor opted to get back into showing, and couldn't give lessons and compete in the non-professional division. Most of the trainers in my area are colt-breakers or problem-horse trainers, not upper-level riding instructors, i.e. above and beyond kick = go, pull = stop, heels down.

Honestly, most of the people who do give lessons in my area are doing so on horses not a great deal better educated than Scout, and aren't much better versed in what I want to learn than I am. So, I'm "teaching myself". I'm doing all right, nothing broken or irreparably damaged, but there are definitely days when I would love to have someone set me straight and harp on my bad habits, or a schoolmaster to ride to get the feel for something. :lol:


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## equiniphile

I'm self taught. Western, anyway. I grew up with horses, and my parents gave me some instruction, but most came from reading books, watching online videos, taking videos of myself and watching them later to critique, and more books. I would say I'm a pretty strong rider, but maybe I could be a better rider if I had some formal instruction Western.

I'm switching to English to compete in eventing, and am taking English lessons right now with my horse's trainer. She used to be a steeplechase jockey in England, and now she reschools OTTB's for eventing and dressage. I've only had one lesson thus far, but it was amazing. She taught me so much about riding English in just 2 hours. I realize I need formal instruction for something I'm going to compete in, whereas with Western I just do fun shows because it's not really what I want to do on a long-term basis, and I don't think I would value a Western lesson like I value my English lessons.

As far as training my horses, I don't need or have formal instruction for that. I'm talking about teaching sidepassing, pivots, turning on the forehand/haunches, etc. I can figure that out on my own, and by doing that, I see areas to avoid as much brighter markers than if I was told exactly what to do. Why I shouldn't teach some things one way or another becomes clearer when you experiment yourself and find the loopholes.


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## Northern

Reminder: The horse teaches us; we're not self-taught.


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## JessicaGDA

equiniphile said:


> I'm self taught. Western, anyway. I grew up with horses, and my parents gave me some instruction, but most came from reading books, watching online videos, taking videos of myself and watching them later to critique, and more books. I would say I'm a pretty strong rider, but maybe I could be a better rider if I had some formal instruction Western.
> 
> I'm switching to English to compete in eventing, and am taking English lessons right now with my horse's trainer. She used to be a steeplechase jockey in England, and now she reschools OTTB's for eventing and dressage. I've only had one lesson thus far, but it was amazing. She taught me so much about riding English in just 2 hours. I realize I need formal instruction for something I'm going to compete in, whereas with Western I just do fun shows because it's not really what I want to do on a long-term basis, and I don't think I would value a Western lesson like I value my English lessons.
> 
> As far as training my horses, I don't need or have formal instruction for that. I'm talking about teaching sidepassing, pivots, turning on the forehand/haunches, etc. I can figure that out on my own, and by doing that, I see areas to avoid as much brighter markers than if I was told exactly what to do. Why I shouldn't teach some things one way or another becomes clearer when you experiment yourself and find the loopholes.




And through the books and videos you were able to figure things out?

English is a fairly big change from Western, hope that it all works out for you! It is good to experiment. Especially with a new discipline. I ride Western, but have had to ride English a few times and it isn't easy at all.

I have been taking lessons for a year, but am now out of the stable I was riding at and am thinking about trying to learn things on my own. I know the basics and am an intermediate rider in Western, I am always looking up videos and watching shows on TV about riding improvement, tips, how-to's and all... I can figure it out. I just didn't know if it would actually work. It's worth a try, right? 

Are you now figuring out Eventing on your own, or trying to get back into lessons?

I've thought about taking lessons again, but I really want to take a shot at figuring things out on my own and improving by the learning experience.


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## Skipsfirstspike

I would think it depends on what you want to do. If all you want is to trail ride for fun, you should be fine without lessons as long as you have a good seat and some common horse sense.
However, if you want to compete or show, lessons are necessary and invaluable.


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## Spyder

JessicaGDA said:


> And through the books and videos you were able to figure things out?



Some can if they are astute enough ...and having that as the only way available.

Would not recommend it but it can and has been done.


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## MacabreMikolaj

What did people do BEFORE coaches, instructors and trainers? :-| 

We live in a day and age where we are SO afraid of doing things wrong, it's like a death sentence. With a little bit of common sense, it's REALLY hard to screw a horse up so badly you can't fix it or re-train it. The only thing I've ever seen done that's sometimes next impossible to fix is beat a horse or let it get away with murder - the first is usually WAY harder to treat then the latter, and also can be a good fix for CURING the latter. :lol:

My aunt was almost entirely self taught, for English anyway. She grew up riding her pony and my grandpa's Arabs, but Western. He showed her how to ride and gave her the basics and she spent her youth racing around bareback, doing gaming on her pony, and generally stupid things.

When she decided she liked English, she was almost entirely self taught. She had no financial access or physical access to a coach (this was a good 40 years ago don't forget), and had nothing but a little rescued QH gelding with a butchered tongue from a barbed wire bit. Somehow, she managed to not only TEACH herself and him eventing, she managed to win. She attended clinics, sopped up any knowledge she could, read books and watched tapes til her eyes were sore. In exchange for cheap board at a friend's house, she started teaching their daughter to event - and she started winning. Now my aunt was making a NAME for herself in our community!

All these years later, my aunt has been and seen it all. She has her official coaching levels for English and Western, and although she's never taken her own riding to huge levels (maybe intermediate for eventing), she's coached SO many children to a successful riding career as well as purchased, trained and sold countless horses. She's heavily involved in Pony Club, and is well known for being an advocate of the horse and uncaring of who people's "connections" are.

I'm not saying everybody should do it, I'm saying we had a LOT of time in this world to be teaching ourselves before all these professionals became so readily available to us. We learned it SOMEWHERE - there HAD to have been a person, however long ago, who first had the idea to make a horse pivot, or make a horse piaffe, or make a horse turn a barrel. SOMEBODY led the way - and with enough time and patience, each and every one of us IS capable of figuring it out on our own. It just tends to be a LOT faster with a professional!

Shay-la never sat in an English saddle before she met me, and within the last year of hacking around in the yard, jumping our cow ponies, watching vids, asking me questions, asking professionals questions, and a handful of Dressage lessons (literally, like 5 of them), it would not take much at ALL to put a little polish on her and throw her into a jumper or Dressage ring. Her natural ability, her never ending urge to keep LEARNING and LEARNING and doing it RIGHT has never faltered - if she wants to do something, she puts her mind to it, and figures out a way to do it, be damned finances!


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## JessicaGDA

MacabreMikolaj said:


> What did people do BEFORE coaches, instructors and trainers? :-|
> 
> We live in a day and age where we are SO afraid of doing things wrong, it's like a death sentence. With a little bit of common sense, it's REALLY hard to screw a horse up so badly you can't fix it or re-train it. The only thing I've ever seen done that's sometimes next impossible to fix is beat a horse or let it get away with murder - the first is usually WAY harder to treat then the latter, and also can be a good fix for CURING the latter. :lol:
> 
> My aunt was almost entirely self taught, for English anyway. She grew up riding her pony and my grandpa's Arabs, but Western. He showed her how to ride and gave her the basics and she spent her youth racing around bareback, doing gaming on her pony, and generally stupid things.
> 
> When she decided she liked English, she was almost entirely self taught. She had no financial access or physical access to a coach (this was a good 40 years ago don't forget), and had nothing but a little rescued QH gelding with a butchered tongue from a barbed wire bit. Somehow, she managed to not only TEACH herself and him eventing, she managed to win. She attended clinics, sopped up any knowledge she could, read books and watched tapes til her eyes were sore. In exchange for cheap board at a friend's house, she started teaching their daughter to event - and she started winning. Now my aunt was making a NAME for herself in our community!
> 
> All these years later, my aunt has been and seen it all. She has her official coaching levels for English and Western, and although she's never taken her own riding to huge levels (maybe intermediate for eventing), she's coached SO many children to a successful riding career as well as purchased, trained and sold countless horses. She's heavily involved in Pony Club, and is well known for being an advocate of the horse and uncaring of who people's "connections" are.
> 
> I'm not saying everybody should do it, I'm saying we had a LOT of time in this world to be teaching ourselves before all these professionals became so readily available to us. We learned it SOMEWHERE - there HAD to have been a person, however long ago, who first had the idea to make a horse pivot, or make a horse piaffe, or make a horse turn a barrel. SOMEBODY led the way - and with enough time and patience, each and every one of us IS capable of figuring it out on our own. It just tends to be a LOT faster with a professional!
> 
> Shay-la never sat in an English saddle before she met me, and within the last year of hacking around in the yard, jumping our cow ponies, watching vids, asking me questions, asking professionals questions, and a handful of Dressage lessons (literally, like 5 of them), it would not take much at ALL to put a little polish on her and throw her into a jumper or Dressage ring. Her natural ability, her never ending urge to keep LEARNING and LEARNING and doing it RIGHT has never faltered - if she wants to do something, she puts her mind to it, and figures out a way to do it, be damned finances!



Oh wow, thank you so much for sharing! That is really inspirational. And I never even thought about it like that... you're absolutely right. All riders back in the old West were self taught because there was no other option and most were great ranch workers and knew how to maneuver there horses. 

Your aunt sounds incredible and very accomplished... and accomplishing Dressage on her own must have taken so much practice and determination. 

Have you learned yourself, or do you take lessons? Sounds like you have natural talent and skill in your blood! 

That's another problem that I have, I don't have the money to spend on 1 lesson per week, it's expensive. And I do study a ton on Natural Horsemanship, that's what I spend 99% of my time doing... 

Like you said, any of us can figure it out on our own, but it takes more time... that's why I'm thinking of doing it on my own, because I have plenty of time and the opportunity to do so.


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## ponyboy

JessicaGDA said:


> All riders back in the old West were self taught because there was no other option and most were great ranch workers and knew how to maneuver there horses.


You mean they were completely alone with no one else around who knew how to ride? I thought cowboys usually work in groups.


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## MacabreMikolaj

JessicaGDA said:


> Oh wow, thank you so much for sharing! That is really inspirational. And I never even thought about it like that... you're absolutely right. All riders back in the old West were self taught because there was no other option and most were great ranch workers and knew how to maneuver there horses.
> 
> Your aunt sounds incredible and very accomplished... and accomplishing Dressage on her own must have taken so much practice and determination.
> 
> Have you learned yourself, or do you take lessons? Sounds like you have natural talent and skill in your blood!
> 
> That's another problem that I have, I don't have the money to spend on 1 lesson per week, it's expensive. And I do study a ton on Natural Horsemanship, that's what I spend 99% of my time doing...
> 
> Like you said, any of us can figure it out on our own, but it takes more time... that's why I'm thinking of doing it on my own, because I have plenty of time and the opportunity to do so.


I come from both schools - like my grandpa taught my aunt to ride, he also taught me to ride. He had me on a horse before I could walk, and I was riding independently from the age of 5. They weren't lessons so much as him riding with me and coaching from the saddle - he let me do my thing until he saw something I could fix and helped me. By the time I was about 7 years old, I was galloping around bareback on our broodmares - nobody taught me, much to my mother's heart attack, I just jumped on and learned to stay on fast because I couldn't lift a saddle over my head!

When I was 10, my aunt trained my 3 year old Arab gelding for me. So for about a year during his training, I was in Pony Club and learning to ride English and jump. My parents however had a huge issue with the cost (my aunt not only trained my horse for free, she even paid part of his board!) and pulled me out of Pony Club. My horse went back to my grandpa's and thus began about 7 years of me riding completely alone. I bugged my grandpa and he bought me an English saddle in this time, so I kept on jumping in my pastures either with the saddle or bareback!

I've had sporatic jumping and Dressage lessons through my life, but most things I want to learn with horses I learn to teach myself. I just don't have the money to be getting lessons right now, and I know more then enough to keep myself safe while training. I don't have the dedication to teach myself the finer points of English, but that's because I prefer Western anyway.

As a side note, my best friend is ENTIRELY self taught - her mom let her buy two 3 year old mares when she was about 16 and she'd only been on a horse a handful of times before on guided trail rides. She managed to single handedly not only train those mares, but train them into two of the most dependable and reliable trail horses you'll ever meet. Yes, she did stupid things, and yes she DID almost get herself killed once or twice. That's a much bigger risk you take doing it yourself. Within a couple years, she wanted something with "more fire" and went and bought herself a half-crazed mare who reared and bucked like a demon. She has somehow managed to never fall off this horse - I've ridden this mare, and with all my 25 years of experience, I had to start spinning her in tight circles because if she got one more buck in, I was going to eat dirt! In only 8 years of owning and riding horses, Shay-la is a remarkably accomplished horse woman. They were breeding their mares (DON'T DO IT!) and she's produced marketable foals out of mongrols with her training (two are actually in Pony Club now carrying children around!). She was buying and selling youngsters for more experience. All without EVER having a SINGLE lesson until this year when she took a few Dressage lessons.

I don't advocate this for everyone - Shay-la is such a remarkable and driven young woman, she doesn't know how to fail at anything she does. She's taken more then her fair share of bumps and bruises along the way, accepting them as part of the trials and tribulations of doing it all alone.

But if someone can take two untrained mares 8 years ago and end up where she is today, YOU are perfectly capable of purchasing a trained horse and learning on the fly! I definitely would never recommend doing what Shay-la did, she IS lucky she didn't get herself killed and only her keen sense of remarkable natural talent prevented her from getting seriously injured. But people teach themselves everyday and as much as you may not be named champion show jumper by next year, I think everyone learns a lot better by just DOING.

Sorry for the novel, but hope I helped a bit!


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## whiskeynoo

i'm self taught, and i ride english, i think thats the reason im really paranoid about the way i ride because alot of people these days are always criticizing and the area i live theres alot of snobbery. when i say im self taught i've learned through experience and watching other people. and i know my riding is probably terrible and what not but i've never had the opportunity to go to a riding school and get lessons.

so my opinion on self taught riding would be if you can get the opportunity to be professionally taught then do it, otherwise if your the kinda person like me you'll end up doubting everything you do lol.


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## equiniphile

JessicaGDA said:


> And through the books and videos you were able to figure things out?
> 
> English is a fairly big change from Western, hope that it all works out for you! It is good to experiment. Especially with a new discipline. I ride Western, but have had to ride English a few times and it isn't easy at all.
> 
> Are you now figuring out Eventing on your own, or trying to get back into lessons?


1. My parents both rode for years and my mom was practically the co-dean of the barn at Lake Erie College for the longest time. They both taught me from literally baby age, and when I was through learning the basics from them, I consulted those other resources for the smaller things, like being light on the horse's mouth (I have a gaited horse so I ride two-handed even Western on him most of the time, or he won't gait correctly), balancing equally and shifting my weight to turn.

2. Thanks. It really is a big change....I'm liking it more and more though.

3. I'm still in lessons (my only one thus far was last week, and I'm going again this week hopefully), but I'm working on solidifying the basics of English before I start really jumping and learning cross country.


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## border reiver

FWIW I was self taught for about 7yo up till I was about 15 - bombing around on ponies bareback. I acquired a velcro bottom and a workmanlike but very sloppy style. Then I did ponyclub for a bit and got a little instruction and worked variously and then rode for a dealers yard (this was not one of the nicer places) and then gave up on horses.
I came back to riding about 15 years ago and, if hunger for knowledge = ability I would be running the Spanish Riding School by now. Sadly this isnt so. 
It is certainly possible to be self taught and survive the experience. And, when you are a kid, have a lot of fun with it.
Although I have my own pony I dont have the transport to get to lessons so am kind of in the same boat. I have had the occasional lesson from a local woman and also my friend who is an eventer. I am constantly on the net reading the works of the great riders - most of which goes over my head - and am super super pleased with the feedback I have gotten in the critique section on the forum - not because it is all just praise but because it feels like I have a little company and input re my wish to become a tidy rider.
However, to know that you collapse your hip and shoulder are all very well but to really really improve it's useful to have someone on the ground to remind you when you are doing it. 
I guess what I am saying is that, yes, you can self teach but it's the harder road and you wont get as far along it. if you dont mind that then it's ok, but I bet at some point most self taught riders would love to have regular lessons at least for just a while.


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## wild_spot

Amen, MM. 

I had lessons at a riding school for about 3/4 years from the age of 5. The horses were like zombies and all I learnt was to stay on at a walk, trot and canter. I becaame a junior staff there when I was about 9, and stopped lessons. I got my first horse at 10.

Since then, I haven't had proper lessons - I'm now 20. My parents are completely non-horsey and I didn't know any horsey people. I joined the local Pony Club.

I had a sh*t of a pony who scared the bejeebers out of me. My dad had to lead me all the way to Pony Club, in tears, and I would STILL fall off that pony. I rode this 11h pony in a big heavy stock saddle made for a fully grown man that I floated around in and that sat all the way back to my ponies rump. We were the definition of novices in over our heads - My parents didn't know how to help, so my 10yo self had to shape up or ship out. Guess what? I did. I sold that pony as a safe kids pony a year or two later. 

Numerous horses later, and I am a darn good rider. I'm not a pretty rider, i'm no a classically correct rider, but I am a functional, safe, and effective rider. I haven't gotten on a horse yet that I can't improve. I have had GREAT success competeing - I have bags upon bags of ribbons at home. I won our zone gameing championships 5 years running. I have numerous awards for my riding. I also have begun to instruct at our PC and other places. I was in the state squad for MG 4 times. I have represented my country riding overseas. I ahve done well in just about any discipline you can think of.

Okay, so that wasn't intended as a brag - It IS intended to show that with a bit of determination, guts, and no other option, you CAN each yourself, and do it successfully. 

It also requires a good horse - By good, I don't mean well trained - I mean with the right temperament. You need a tolerant horse who won't take advantage of mistakes. Wildey was that horse for me - An 11yo kid with a green broke 5yo Arab by rights should have ended horribly - But he had the temperament, and we were phenominally successful. Of course I made mistakes - He has some bad habits now that he wouldn't have if I could do it over. But I was a kid who liked to go fast (Which kid doesn't!). Despite that, he is an absolute legend of a horse and I have had numerous offers from people wanting to buy him. He is now at a Riding for the Disabled School - not bad for a pony trained entirely by a child.

I still like to figure things out for myself. I see other people doing something cool, and I think 'I want to do that'. So I go home and experiment, try different things, until I hit on one that works. 

I get to clinics if I can, and recently had a couple of lessons with a family friend. Lessons to me are more about refining, fine tuning, and cleaning up the picture. The basics I can do myself. I honestly don't care what I look like when riding - But if I am functional enough to stay on top of my horse chansing after cattle in rough country or doing Mounted games flat out, and still get what I want from my horse, then I am happy. 

Funnily enough, even though i'm not a pretty rider, I have won quite a few rider classes (Like equitation classes).

*

There is a massive dependance on instructors and trainers in the US. It is almost blasphemy to be competeing without a trainer. It is really bizarre to me, as it is so different to here in Australia.

Here, most kids don't have trainers. They are too expensive and often not available in many areas. We get used to relying on ourselves and other horsey friends. Not one of my riding friends has lessons or a trainer. 

When I first joined this forum I thought it was absurd how most threads had the response 'Get a trainer!' - it just isn't what we do here. It still rankles a bit when I hear people being told they can't succeed without a trainer. It is very 'elitist'.


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## wild_spot

I also want to note that I didn't watch DVD's or read books - I just listened to my horse. There is nothing a book or DVD can tell you that you can't learn from your horse.


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## Starlet

I never took lessons when I started horseback riding. My dad knew how to ride so I got the basics from him. I would recomed horse camp or lessons for a strong foundation. If you ride around at show too, you can get advice from others around you who know how to ride. Sometimes I will go to a trainer for advice and have them critique me, but i don't take formal lessons. I do recomend them but i never took them and I turned out fine...


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## JessicaGDA

ponyboy said:


> You mean they were completely alone with no one else around who knew how to ride? I thought cowboys usually work in groups.


I had watched a documentary where cowboys were given wild horses, had to break the horses to ride and then learn to ride on their own with their new horses. Not sure how much of that actually happened back in the day, but all cowboys had to start somewhere whether they were taught how to ride or not!


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## MyBoyPuck

I think we all need a pair of eyes on the ground every now and then, but for the most part, I go it alone. I'm an info junkie, so I read and watch everything I can get my hands on. If anything looks useful, I try it out. If I get stuck or feel like something's off, I take a tuneup lesson. 

As far as regular instruction is concerned, I think while as a beginner rider needs someone to show them how to ride, as we get more experienced as riders, our jobs as riders become only part rider and rest becomes more toward training our horses. If we had good instruction as beginner riders, we will have the tools necessary to develop our own horses. We still need eyes on the ground, but more in the way of addressing things we cannot solve on our own or still don't have the skills to address on our own.


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## JessicaGDA

wild_spot said:


> Amen, MM.
> 
> I had lessons at a riding school for about 3/4 years from the age of 5. The horses were like zombies and all I learnt was to stay on at a walk, trot and canter. I becaame a junior staff there when I was about 9, and stopped lessons. I got my first horse at 10.
> 
> Since then, I haven't had proper lessons - I'm now 20. My parents are completely non-horsey and I didn't know any horsey people. I joined the local Pony Club.
> 
> I had a sh*t of a pony who scared the bejeebers out of me. My dad had to lead me all the way to Pony Club, in tears, and I would STILL fall off that pony. I rode this 11h pony in a big heavy stock saddle made for a fully grown man that I floated around in and that sat all the way back to my ponies rump. We were the definition of novices in over our heads - My parents didn't know how to help, so my 10yo self had to shape up or ship out. Guess what? I did. I sold that pony as a safe kids pony a year or two later.
> 
> Numerous horses later, and I am a darn good rider. I'm not a pretty rider, i'm no a classically correct rider, but I am a functional, safe, and effective rider. I haven't gotten on a horse yet that I can't improve. I have had GREAT success competeing - I have bags upon bags of ribbons at home. I won our zone gameing championships 5 years running. I have numerous awards for my riding. I also have begun to instruct at our PC and other places. I was in the state squad for MG 4 times. I have represented my country riding overseas. I ahve done well in just about any discipline you can think of.
> 
> Okay, so that wasn't intended as a brag - It IS intended to show that with a bit of determination, guts, and no other option, you CAN each yourself, and do it successfully.
> 
> It also requires a good horse - By good, I don't mean well trained - I mean with the right temperament. You need a tolerant horse who won't take advantage of mistakes. Wildey was that horse for me - An 11yo kid with a green broke 5yo Arab by rights should have ended horribly - But he had the temperament, and we were phenominally successful. Of course I made mistakes - He has some bad habits now that he wouldn't have if I could do it over. But I was a kid who liked to go fast (Which kid doesn't!). Despite that, he is an absolute legend of a horse and I have had numerous offers from people wanting to buy him. He is now at a Riding for the Disabled School - not bad for a pony trained entirely by a child.
> 
> I still like to figure things out for myself. I see other people doing something cool, and I think 'I want to do that'. So I go home and experiment, try different things, until I hit on one that works.
> 
> I get to clinics if I can, and recently had a couple of lessons with a family friend. Lessons to me are more about refining, fine tuning, and cleaning up the picture. The basics I can do myself. I honestly don't care what I look like when riding - But if I am functional enough to stay on top of my horse chansing after cattle in rough country or doing Mounted games flat out, and still get what I want from my horse, then I am happy.
> 
> Funnily enough, even though i'm not a pretty rider, I have won quite a few rider classes (Like equitation classes).
> 
> *
> 
> There is a massive dependance on instructors and trainers in the US. It is almost blasphemy to be competeing without a trainer. It is really bizarre to me, as it is so different to here in Australia.
> 
> Here, most kids don't have trainers. They are too expensive and often not available in many areas. We get used to relying on ourselves and other horsey friends. Not one of my riding friends has lessons or a trainer.
> 
> When I first joined this forum I thought it was absurd how most threads had the response 'Get a trainer!' - it just isn't what we do here. It still rankles a bit when I hear people being told they can't succeed without a trainer. It is very 'elitist'.




That's so great, you must have been really brave when it came to horses. It's good to know that not everyone has had lessons or a trainer and are still successful.
So many people I've talked to have said that it's impossible to be a good rider without being told what to do, how to do it, and when to do it... I disagree. 

A lot of the people who have posted in this thread are the perfect example of being on your own when it comes to your horse and riding... not everyone is rich and can afford a trainer for lessons often! And riding isn't rocket science, either. Sure, it can be difficult, and there's a lot to learn... but a big part is just common sense and understanding.


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## ThatNinjaHorse

I havnt read this whole thread, but heres my view.

I think it can be beneficial. I started lessons when i could w/t/kinda canter. So i knew the basics, i'd grown up with horses so I had horse care down pat. I had 2 years of group lessons, then 2 years of private flatwork lessons. It took me ridiculously long to improve as im not naturally talented in riding and i'd just gotten a new horse when i started private lessons, and he was so different to anything id ridden before so it took me a while to get the hang of things. We were also both learning together so that doesnt help.
I stopped getting lessons due to a number of things, but continued to ride. Since then i have improved so much. My seat/balance, my horses way of going etc etc. My instructor was good, no doubt about that, but the time ive had to 'figure things out on my own' has benefited me greatly. 
In lessons your constantly told what you need to be doing, when to do it etc etc, and i think i became accustomed to relying on my instructor to tell me what to do. In a way i guess she was riding for me. I suppose i would 'switch off' somewhat, i was also around 15/16 yrs, so the age didnt help! :lol:

In saying that though, i can/have only worked on what i know already. I can only build on what ive been taught in lessons. If i wanted to start something completely new i'd need instruction. I can get a horse to Novice level dressage (leg yeilds, 10m circles, lengthened strides etc) but if i wanted to move up (next level is elementary, start shoulder ins, medium/collected paces, counter canter etc) I'd start lessons again. I wouldnt feel confident enough starting these things on my own and it would probably be quite stupid of me to try. 

This was probably long and boring, but i think there is so much you cant learn in lessons. Just getting out there and trying new things/riding different horses/different disciplines etc. Talking to different people, listening, keeping an open mind to how other people do things.


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## Citrus

I love what you said MM!! We do live a in a world scared of everything and confident at nothing. We humans are very smart and can figure things out..... I am self taught and while I do take lessons once in a while, it is to get ideas from someone else that I can add to my head- like a paid for brain storm. Some learn better from being told what to do and then practicing or copying that while others learn better by doing it themselves with trial and error......


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## Scoutrider

MacabreMikolaj said:


> What did people do BEFORE coaches, instructors and trainers? :-|
> 
> We live in a day and age where we are SO afraid of doing things wrong, it's like a death sentence. *With a little bit of common sense, it's REALLY hard to screw a horse up so badly you can't fix it or re-train it.* The only thing I've ever seen done that's sometimes next impossible to fix is beat a horse or let it get away with murder - the first is usually WAY harder to treat then the latter, and also can be a good fix for CURING the latter. :lol:


Excellent and inspiring post, MM. The part I highlighted jumps out at me especially; I came to a really similar conclusion myself recently.



MyBoyPuck said:


> I think we all need a pair of eyes on the ground every now and then, but for the most part, I go it alone. I'm an info junkie, so I read and watch everything I can get my hands on. If anything looks useful, I try it out. If I get stuck or feel like something's off, I take a tuneup lesson.
> 
> As far as regular instruction is concerned, I think while as a beginner rider needs someone to show them how to ride, as we get more experienced as riders, our jobs as riders become only part rider and rest becomes more toward training our horses. If we had good instruction as beginner riders, we will have the tools necessary to develop our own horses. We still need eyes on the ground, but more in the way of addressing things we cannot solve on our own or still don't have the skills to address on our own.


^I agree completely. I vividly remember when I stopped taking regular lessons, my dad said that it had basically turned into me paying to put lesson ponies through their more advanced paces, or to exercise the saner horses brought for training. This was about the time I bought my first horse. Since then, it's been me and my horse, research, some trial and error (and fixing), and picking the brains of everyone I meet.


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## macscootin

Lesson are supposed to build confidence, that why there are bomb proof lesson horses. You really do learn more by just riding your horse, reading books, going to clinics and asking people for help/ideas. Trainers are just that trainers, they had to start somewhere too. I have a taken a few ( like three) lesson, they were for jumping/dressage. They were with my own horse, both of us had no formal training other that I watched the olympics ALOT( I broke my VCR), and read books, watched other people ride and we both had natural talent. There is not a better place to learn then from the back of your buddy.


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## JessicaGDA

So reading through all of y'alls posts, you think it's okay to not be a perfect rider?

I think it's okay, especially if riding just for fun with my pal out in the field or on trails... but that doesn't mean it's okay to be completely clueless!

I think I'm going to start learning on my own, like in Templeton Thompsons song "I've learned more from the back of a horse than most folks ever get to know, and you never really know what you're made of till you ride out on your own".... thought it was the perfect time to use that!

Any tips for future learning reference?

The stable I was riding at held me back for a long time, though which I don't understand. I had established a good sitting trot and posting trot and was ready for cantering but they never let me get to that point. And that's why it's hard having someone saying what to do, when to do it. It really can be a big set back.


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## Lovehorsesandrunning

Well ive been trained in english for about 3 to 4 years,and i know every basic thing and most expeirnced things, but sometimes ive been horseback riding and i couldnt ride english so ive pretty much taught myself to ride western. my friend sage whos ridden western pretty much her whole life has taught me alot but besides that ive taught myself most of western. Im good on walk and trot in western and on thursday im going riding western again and im going to lope and maybe gallop , so im not against self traing, but I think theres different levels of it. Like help from a friend who is not a riding instructor or being completly clueless and just watching and learning


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## wild_spot

I don't think it's especially important to be a pretty rider, but it IS extremely important to be a *functional* rider and not impede your horse. Luckily, this is the easier one to learn yourself.


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## equiniphile

I totally agree, WS. Being a functional rider is a totally different thing than being a pretty rider.


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## wild_spot

^ Cause I sure as heck ain't pretty :]


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## MacabreMikolaj

^

I firmly believe you will learn WAY more doing then trying to learn for 30 minutes once a week. When Ashley started riding with us, I was absolutely APPALLED that she'd been jumping in her lessons - it was downright dangerous how unbalanced her position was. She'd been taking lessons for quite awhile and seemed to learn nothing.

Her mom tossed us out with us, and 2 years later, that kid is unreal. The first time Justus tossed her (little crowhop, went over her shoulder), she became terrified of horses. She froze up and it took a lot of encouragement from us to get her through it. This past winter, we were galloping in a snowy field when Justus tripped, Ashley went flying and Justus TRAMPLED her - she suffered a minor injury to her shoulder, and had zero problems getting back on and no fear of going right back to what she was doing. She rides that crazy pony like a demon now, and isn't afraid to do much of anything with her.

She's turned into an unbelieveably brave, bold and functional rider - all from QUITTING lessons and just hanging around us rowdy cowgirls! And, Ashley rides English - and from riding it 24/7, with a few pointers from us, she rides English better then me and Shay-la do and she's only 15! 

We put together a photo album of her recently and the change was insane - all from just being allowed to jump on a horse and do what SHE wanted to do. Here's a little snippet of her amazing progress!

The first weeks she was riding with us: (don't even ASK why we let her jump, we kick ourselves for it now 2 years later!)




























Absolutely everything about her riding was unconfident, tense, unsure and mostly incorrect. She had lessons from Shay-la for several months, and exactly two years later, this is Ashley and her 5 year old pony now!



















http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz134/Picture*****z/Justus/EJR118.jpg










Sure, she'd have a ton to learn before showing - her jumping position still needs work, but it wouldn't take much at all to bring her to that point. I firmly believe being allowed to learn for yourself in a day to day setting on your own horse will teach you 50x more then a riding lesson once a week!


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## JessicaGDA

MacabreMikolaj said:


> ^
> 
> I firmly believe you will learn WAY more doing then trying to learn for 30 minutes once a week. When Ashley started riding with us, I was absolutely APPALLED that she'd been jumping in her lessons - it was downright dangerous how unbalanced her position was. She'd been taking lessons for quite awhile and seemed to learn nothing.
> 
> Her mom tossed us out with us, and 2 years later, that kid is unreal. The first time Justus tossed her (little crowhop, went over her shoulder), she became terrified of horses. She froze up and it took a lot of encouragement from us to get her through it. This past winter, we were galloping in a snowy field when Justus tripped, Ashley went flying and Justus TRAMPLED her - she suffered a minor injury to her shoulder, and had zero problems getting back on and no fear of going right back to what she was doing. She rides that crazy pony like a demon now, and isn't afraid to do much of anything with her.
> 
> She's turned into an unbelieveably brave, bold and functional rider - all from QUITTING lessons and just hanging around us rowdy cowgirls! And, Ashley rides English - and from riding it 24/7, with a few pointers from us, she rides English better then me and Shay-la do and she's only 15!
> 
> We put together a photo album of her recently and _the change was insane - all from just being allowed to jump on a horse and do what SHE wanted to do._ Here's a little snippet of her amazing progress!
> 
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> Sure, she'd have a ton to learn before showing - her jumping position still needs work, but it wouldn't take much at all to bring her to that point._ I firmly believe being allowed to learn for yourself in a day to day setting on your own horse will teach you 50x more then a riding lesson once a week!_


She looks great on her pony considering how you explained that she was in the beginning. That's incredible! 
I underlined what I couldn't agree with more. That's exactly what I was thinking, as I said in my post before, my riding instructor wouldn't let me start to canter even though I had established a good sitting and posting trot. It just didn't make sense, and now that I'm riding on my own, I can signal and sit the canter so much better. 

Sometimes the freedom to do other things is the answer and best way to learn anything.

Just like you let your student do, and looking at how much progress she's made because of the decisions.


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## payette

I am mostly "self taught". I still have plenty to learn! I've treasured the few lessons I've had, which were with an amazing instructor, though. If I could afford it, I'd take lessons all the time. . . but I made great progress by taking what I learned in a lesson and practicing it every time I rode. Learn from riding as many different horses as possible, if you can. The more you ride, the better you'll get. Ride bareback as much as you can, after mastering the basics of balance.


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## Deerly

I think a lot of things are very very difficult to learn by yourself but that you can be a perfectly capable and functional rider without having any instruction just with time and balance and miles in the saddle.

I think for things like proper position it's VERY hard to teach yourself unless you have a lot of mirrors or videotape yourself and play it back on a regular basis. We all get little sloppy position habits that we don't realize until an instructor on the ground tells us to keep our eyes up or our fingers closed or our heels down, shoulders back - whatever. 

Can people be awesome and confident and functional riders without taking a single lesson? Sure! I just think it's harder to do it very "pretty" without someone else looking at you and providing reminders and instruction. Not always a trainer, of course, but some separate person being able to watch and instruct.


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## haviris

I'm self taught, and not at all from a horsey family. When I was 5 my parents gave in and got us a pony, the most awsome, wonderfully first horse any kid could ever ask for! We were put on her back told "this is how you go, this is how you stop, this is how you turn, good luck" and that was the extent of any lessons I've ever taken. I read alot (or did), but mostly learned through experience and from the horses. Bareback only til I was 10, started using a saddle when I was around 14 or 15 and joined 4H, met more horse people then and had more to learn from, thankfully I was smart enough to know who to listen to and who not to. I think I was a pretty decent rider!

Honestly around here I'd say having an instructor/trainer is a rarity, and this is a pretty horsey area. Most of the horse people were born into it, and alot of them shouldn't be anywhere near a horse (they tend to be the ones that don't listen to others because their families have been in horses for x amount of years and no one could possibly know as much as they do), but most know horses and know how to ride!

I didn't realize instructors/trainers were such common place til I started using the internet. And it DOES sometimes seem that people rely on them probably to much, can't even purchase a horse w/out them holding their hands and "approving" the purchase. Maybe it's just not something I understand since it's not the norm here.


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## Delfina

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I firmly believe being allowed to learn for yourself in a day to day setting on your own horse will teach you 50x more then a riding lesson once a week!


I disagree. I have 4 lessons a week, 2 on my instructor's horse and 2 on mine. I bought my horse last October and started lessons with my instructor this April. I have learned far more in the past 3 months than I managed in the first 6 months with a relative helping me out. I think I learned more in the 1st couple lessons than I managed on my own in MONTHS! My instructor does not push me into anything I am not ready for, nor does she hold me back and it's not just riding instruction, she goes over everything from groundwork to choosing tack, to grooming, bathing, trailering and feeding. 

I tried learning on my own, ended up incredibly frustrated with a horse that was quite annoyed and busy perfecting her skills in bucking, crow hopping and kicking. My lessons are worth every last penny I pay out and I am sure my horse who is now a very happy, lil horse instead of a confused and upset horse would say the same.


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## trailhorserider

You know, when I was a kid my parents made me take swimming lessons and I was terrified. So terrified that I refused to go back to them. But my best friend had a pool and I loved the water, so I started out in the shallow end, and as my confidence crept up, I started going into deep and deeper water and actually learned to swim on my own. 

That's kind of how riding has been for me, except that no one actually told me a new rider needs to take lessons, so I never did. Certainly no one ever told my parents I needed lessons to learn to ride either. Now about 15 years later you guys are telling me I should have had lessons. Who'd of thunk, lol! :lol:

I just trail ride and I never show. So I know my riding probably isn't pretty, but I started off in the "shallow end" of riding (riding in my comfort zone) and gradually worked my way into doing pretty well everything I could ever want to do on horseback. The only things that scare me now are situations where I feel me or my horse could get hurt, such as really bad footing or dangerous areas going up and down mountains. But I guess what I am saying is, I have pretty well accomplished my goals (of trail riding) without ever taking a lesson, including riding alone out on the national forest.

Sure, I could improve, and I hope I improve until the day I die, but really, to get the job done (of riding a horse for pleasure), I did just fine in my ignorance-is-bliss approach. I have learned and learned and learned a bunch over the years, mostly from friends and books and the internet, and have become a pretty safe, balanced and functional rider. Yes, I want to learn and probably would have learned much faster with an instructor, but I think I am a really functional rider at this point.


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## Spyder

Delfina said:


> I disagree. I have 4 lessons a week, 2 on my instructor's horse and 2 on mine. I bought my horse last October and started lessons with my instructor this April. I have learned far more in the past 3 months than I managed in the first 6 months with a relative helping me out. I think I learned more in the 1st couple lessons than I managed on my own in MONTHS! My instructor does not push me into anything I am not ready for, nor does she hold me back and it's not just riding instruction, she goes over everything from groundwork to choosing tack, to grooming, bathing, trailering and feeding.
> 
> I tried learning on my own, ended up incredibly frustrated with a horse that was quite annoyed and busy perfecting her skills in bucking, crow hopping and kicking. My lessons are worth every last penny I pay out and I am sure my horse who is now a very happy, lil horse instead of a confused and upset horse would say the same.


I usually recommend people learning from a qualified instructor BUT some people are quite capable of sitting on most horses and reading them well enough that they require little or no help.


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## ridesapaintedpony

I'm self-taught. I learned that if I do _this_ I stayed on a horse and if I did _that_, I came off. So, I continued to do _this_. 

It wasn't until I started riding around others years later that they picked apart my riding until my self-confidence was destroyed. I never asked for their opinions, but they felt they just had to correct me. Now I can be timid on a horse because I'm afraid my first reaction is wrong.

I don't show, I just trail ride. IMO as long as someone isn't hurting the horse and themselves, they're able to stay on the horse, leave them alone and let them enjoy their ride, self-taught or not.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Delfina said:


> I disagree. I have 4 lessons a week, 2 on my instructor's horse and 2 on mine. I bought my horse last October and started lessons with my instructor this April. I have learned far more in the past 3 months than I managed in the first 6 months with a relative helping me out. I think I learned more in the 1st couple lessons than I managed on my own in MONTHS! My instructor does not push me into anything I am not ready for, nor does she hold me back and it's not just riding instruction, she goes over everything from groundwork to choosing tack, to grooming, bathing, trailering and feeding.
> 
> I tried learning on my own, ended up incredibly frustrated with a horse that was quite annoyed and busy perfecting her skills in bucking, crow hopping and kicking. My lessons are worth every last penny I pay out and I am sure my horse who is now a very happy, lil horse instead of a confused and upset horse would say the same.


Yeah and you just said four while I said one, so we're not even talking about the same thing. I never said lessons were bad, I said if you're going to be riding ONCE a week under instruction compared to riding every day by yourself, you ARE going to learn more riding by yourself.


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## SavvyHill

I'm going to tell you a story. There was a girl who learned how to make a horse go forward, make a horse stop, make a horse turn to the right, and make a horse turn to the left. And she could hang on. This girl never once took a professional lesson. Because she spent so long riding incorrectly (yes, she was VERY wrong), when someone finally gave her a "lesson", she wouldn't listen to a single thing the trainer said. This girl never listened to anything anyone said. Maybe if she had started humbly, she'd be better at taking direction. 

Another thing is, I took three years of lessons, then got my horse. I couldn't afford to keep my horse at my lesson barn, so I stopped taking lessons. For three years I rode with what I thought was proper riding technique, but a lot of things I did was faulty, and now that I've started training again, it's quintessential that I fix these problems, and it's difficult. I think, in a show ring, the difference between "self-taught" riders and professionally trained riders is absolutely noticeable to the judge.


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## smrobs

I am gonna jump in the wagon with W_S and MM. I am largely self taught. I have been on horses nearly since the day I was born and started riding by myself at 3 (on a mini-burro), got my first real horse at 4. I spent every waking moment on that horse. He was big and slow and while he would do exactly what I would tell him, he would be sluggish about it because that's what I needed. As I got a little bit older and bolder, I could ask for more. He was a rough travelling sonofagun but I would trot and lope him everywhere in a saddle that was really too big for me (I was a small child). I grew up riding rough country and rough horses (well trained, just travelled rough). If my Dad saw me doing something that he thought really needed correcting, he would correct it. Did I learn some bad habits? Hell yes. I am fighting to correct quite a few of them now but those bad habits are more aesthetic than functional. Riding with the right hand when I should be riding with the left, etc. I have never had a day of "proper" instruction other than what the horse could teach me. Like W_S said. It isn't pretty, it isn't classically proper, but it's functional. It may look like my hands and feet are moving around a lot when I ride but they are quiet to the horse. Of course it would be completely obvious in a show class that I was home-taught but that doesn't matter to me. If I get into the "proper" form, I feel completely unbalanced and out of control. I know that is from so many years of just riding however I felt like riding but since I don't show, I don't feel any need to bust my *** changing it now since I can successfully ride any horse available to me without changing anything. Just like my Dad, he went to the school of hard knocks horsemanship and learned everything he knows now by making mistakes when he was young. He learned to ride on some really rotten horses, buckers, bolters, etc. Horses that would really hurt you. He ended up being at the top of the show circuit for many years in the AQHA. Was his position proper? Nope. His feet are often forward and his toes point down. No matter how proper it is in WP to carry your off hand straight down by your butt, he couldn't do it. These were all things that he learned riding horses that were unpredictable. It may not look pretty, but he can ride almost anything a horse can dish out, even at close to 60 years old, he can ride circles around most people. I think that having lessons is a great thing if you can afford it and it is available to you (there is no lesson barn within 200 miles of me that I am aware of), but it isn't necessary to become a good horseman and a good rider. It just takes longer to develop that feel. You have to learn to listen to the horse so that you can recognize when they are telling you "get off my mouth" instead of having someone there to tell you from the start "Get off his mouth". It can be done, it just takes many more years and a few gazillion mistakes.


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## wild_spot

> I think, in a show ring, the difference between "self-taught" riders and professionally trained riders is absolutely noticeable to the judge.


They must like it then, because I normally win in the ring :]

I'm not showing as much anymore as i'm more into the training side of things, but I showed heavily in about 6 different disciplines for about 6 years on Wildey - We won more than 50% of the time. I have bags upon bags of blue and champion ribbons.


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## SavvyHill

There are some exceptions, of course. But I also knew this girl who had never taken a lesson in her life, except from a friend who'd been on the show circuit for a while, and when she got in the arena for her shows she looked horrible. Natural talent is one thing, but you also know what you're doing, W_S, I'm sure you've studied _some_ sort of material on your discipline. This girl never studied, and just assumed that she knew everything and that if anyone ever needed help all they had to do was come ask her. It's that kind of cockiness that I don't like, and it usually sprouts from self-training.


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## wild_spot

^ I haven't studied, per se - It's only now that I am considering reading some books. However I watch closely what those who are doing well do and emulate it - Like I mentioned earlier I just fiddle around until I hit on something that works for me. As such I also don't use all the 'conventional' aids/ways of asking for things.


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## SavvyHill

The difference between you and average self-taught riders is that once they learn ONE thing, they think they know everything. Humility will get you EVERYWHERE in the horse world.

Edit: Unless the person that's trying to teach you is a moron.


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## MacabreMikolaj

@ SavvyHill

I think you're splitting hairs a bit. I know TONS of riders who grew up on a farm, bombing around on dad's cow ponies who are phenomonal competition riders now - heck, I guarantee you that a large majority of Grand Prix show jumpers could name their roots in old cow ponies, being older and born in a generation that saw a LOT less "proper".

I've had lessons with several trainers, and I've had my praises sung. I've always been told I had a lot of natural talent, and every trainer/coach I've spoken to would rather fix some bad habits then attempt to teach an entire concept to someone who isn't getting it. My old Dressage coach used to get excited during my lessons because she'd be explaining something to me you'd think was foreign to some farm kid, and yet I'd been learning in my own way, and able to understand exactly what she meant even though I'd never experienced it before.

If you're saying you can tell a COMPLETELY self-taught rider in the show ring as opposed to a professionally trained one, that MAY be so - but in my opinion and experience, that tends to happen when you have someone who THINKS they're competition material and they simply aren't. Shay-la is a fantastic rider, and can out ride 90% of the show kids I know, and she knows she'd stick out like a sore thumb in an equitation or hunter class (though I'd put my money on her in a speed jumper class!) However, I will bet you money within about a month or two of solid lessons from a professional in a specific discipline, she'd be BLOWING the competition out of the water - why? Because she knows how to RIDE, period. The difference between staying at a mediocre level and rising to the advanced levels is the ability to RIDE - posing and perfection may get you farther NOW, but in the long run, it's the dirt in their teeth bronc babies that are going to get a helluva lot farther in the showring - it's FAR easier teaching equitation to someone who already has perfect balance, quick reflexes and a strong understanding of functional riding then it is to work with someone who's never had a chance to learn from the school of hard knocks.


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## wild_spot

I think I also have the added benefit (And at some times hindrance) of being a huge perfectionist. I have massive expectations of both myself and my horses. I don't really ever consider that I may NOT be good at something or that I might not be able to do something, so I generally just go out and get it done however I can. 

I think there are a lot of self-taight rider who have no ambition, and no desire to acheive anything in particular (Not talking about someone like Trailhorserider) and no desire to learn better ways - These are the ones who aren't functional, don't have happy or well behaved horses, and don't acheive things.

However, It is very rare for someone who is driven, intelligent, willing to learn and always looking for better ways to NOT succeed.


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## wild_spot

I actually sometimes do worse under instruction than on my own - Because I ahve such high standards for myself, if I don't understand a concept or excercise right off the bat I get extremely frustrated and tense. However, when i'm fiddling on my own, I don't have to try and interpret another persons language, I can work in my own language and just use my horse as a waypost to how i'm doing. I tend to get very stressed when I don't understand what someone is trying to get me to do in a lesson situation.


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## Deerly

I'm confused. There are some things you almost can not teach yourself without someone on the ground offering instruction because you simply cannot see everything going on from on your horse's back. Especially when it comes to lateral work, you need someone on the ground! It doesn't matter if it's a professional horse trainer you are paying or a family member / friend who knows what to look for but it's not a "lone wolf" sort of thing.

To do anything with a proper form you need another pair of eyes to catch your mistakes as it's impossible to observe yourself while you are doing something.

Even professionally trained riders pick up bad habits or "cheats" with their riding -- the better you get the more little short cuts and cheats you have without even realizing it. If you don't care about that, that's fine. I think most anyone could teach themselves to stay on a horse and get pretty darn good at it without any instruction, just with miles and with experience. That's just very different from trying to perfect position and specific discipline/sport skills.


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## smrobs

That's what we're saying. Though we taught ourselves, it isn't pretty and I know I am light years away from what is considered proper position but it is functional and I can still get whatever I want from my horses. Just like there are certain things that it is hard to figure out without someone on the ground pointing them out, there are a lot of things to be learned by figuring some stuff out for yourself. All the proper instruction and the perfect form won't help if a person can't figure out how to sit a trot. Though I probably wouldn't place in a showmanship class, I can ride a cutting horse, a roping horse, haul butt across pretty rough country, train a greenie, and ride a buck without ever accidentally catching their mouth, jabbing a rib, or flopping around on their back.


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## Spyder

Deerly said:


> because you simply cannot see everything going on from on your horse's back.



Mirrors and video are readily available.

Worked well with me.


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## wild_spot

NOOOOO! Super long post just got eaten.

*

You may not be able to see everything that is going on, but you sure as heck can feel most of it, and that's all I have needed over the years.

I just wrote a huge post about the discipline specific skills I have taught myself, but I don't want to type it again. Suffice to say that me being self taught, teaching my horse Bundy, rarely walk out of a working ASH class without first place, and are usually only beaten in champion by those who breed and train these horses for a living.


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## sarahver

I learnt most of what I know by riding dozens of horses for an old racehorse trainer, starting from the age of 14. I was the first to ride the ones that were being broken, re trained them when they finished racing so that they could be shown and when I was a bit older (16) I started galloping track work. I rode more bucks, rears, pigroots, bolts and crowhops than I care to remember. I also have had more falls than I care to remember. My point? My riding position is pretty good. This is because there are _reasons_ that riding position is taught - it is simply the best way to ride a horse. If you spend many years riding any and every horse someone asks you to ride, you either develop a good seat and good hands over time, or you continue to be thrown through fences (happened once, I took the top rail of a post and rail fence down with me - ouch).

When I was 19 and started eventing, I had my first lesson and it was great. Turns out my riding position had evolved quite nicely all those unscrupulous years without a trained proffesional watching over me. Through my eventing career I had more lessons but they were few and far between. Rather than having weekly lessons from a local instructor, I used three instructors (all of which are Olympic medallists). I always felt that the occasional lesson from the best in the business was far better than frequent lessons from a mediocre instructor. And believe me, I got my money's worth as I would go home and write down EVERYTHING I was told at each lesson so that I could look back on my notes and never forget a piece of advice that was given to me.

Conclusion: You learn more from riding a variety of horses than you do from having static lessons week in week out. When it comes to fine tuning your riding, ask a professional and be prepared to soak up the knowledge like a sponge.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Deerly - Nope, you're not confused! You're exactly right - yes, often times we DO need that pair of eyes on the ground if we're wanting to get to a specific place in our riding. I think the general tone of the post though isn't that "anybody can teach themselves to ride good enough to win shows". It's just that we have such a "ZOMG GET A TRAINER/COACH BEFORE YOU DIE" attitude, it's a little silly. People have been learning to ride since forever, and it was only recently we had such easy access to coaches and trainers.

However, based on feel and experience alone, just about everyone is perfectly capable of learning to ride in a functional non-detrimental manner to their horse IF they are willing to LISTEN to their horse. It's definitely not for everybody, but it's far from impossible without lessons and can even give you some benefits of "I'm going to learn to sit this canter real fast because all I see is rocks and that's not fun!" :lol:


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## SavvyHill

@Macabre
When I say self-taught riders are easily pointed out in the show ring, I mean COMPLETELY self-taught riders. The girl I referenced who was a complete know-it-all, horses or no, never took a single lesson from a professional. The other girl I referenced who never listened to anyone, she never took a single lesson from a professional either. You, and W_S, and anyone else who is arguing with me right now have probably taken at least ONE lesson from a professional, not to mention that you all are driven and motivated riders.


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## MacabreMikolaj

sarahver said:


> Conclusion: You learn more from riding a variety of horses than you do from having static lessons week in week out. When it comes to fine tuning your riding, ask a professional and be prepared to soak up the knowledge like a sponge.


Fantastic, fantastic advice! I think that pretty much sums it up - in the beginning, one of the best things you can do for yourself is learn by doing. As you advance, seek out the professionals for fine tuning. If you want to go far, save your money for that top notch lesson instead of throwing it all away on plodding camp ponies in a group of ten taught once a week by a pony clubber!


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## MacabreMikolaj

SavvyHill said:


> @Macabre
> When I say self-taught riders are easily pointed out in the show ring, I mean COMPLETELY self-taught riders. The girl I referenced who was a complete know-it-all, horses or no, never took a single lesson from a professional. The other girl I referenced who never listened to anyone, she never took a single lesson from a professional either. You, and W_S, and anyone else who is arguing with me right now have probably taken at least ONE lesson from a professional, not to mention that you all are driven and motivated riders.


And I totally agree with you, but that does deviate slightly from the general tone of this topic. I'm fairly certain the OP isn't posting to ask if we think she can win a jumper class next week without any lessons. We're just saying learning to ride is perfectly do-able without lessons, and as example, we know of people who have won competitions with barely any lessons. I think we're all in agreement at just trying to portray that you DON'T need an instructor three times a week for the rest of your life to learn how to ride, or even show.


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## wild_spot

> Conclusion: *You learn more from riding a variety of horses than you do from having static lessons week in week out.* When it comes to fine tuning your riding, ask a professional and be prepared to soak up the knowledge like a sponge.


I can't believe I forgot to mention this - I truly believe this is the key. Sit your butt on an many horses as you can. I'm lucky in that I got 4 years in the state MG squad where I rode 15 different horses a weekend, once a month. I have probably ridden more horses than most twice my age - And most were games ponies, so they were a little mad :]


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## Deerly

LOL Yes, it's very silly to say "ZOMG GET A TRAINER/COACH BEFORE YOU DIE" so I totally get that point 

I get annoyed with any single minded "I know everything and my way is the only/best way and I am the master of the universe" attitude. That applies to everything and every approach, even ones that I use or agree with.


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## smrobs

Oh, I understand that. Unfortunately, those are the types that you usually see with the crappiest form and they are leaning on the horse's mouth and jabbing him in the guts. That's because they have that attitude that "nobody could possibly know anything more than they do because they have ridden a single old plug horse half a dozen times and everybody told them how great they are". My stepmom's grandson is just like that. He's like 9 and tries to tell me what I am doing wrong when I'm riding "If you keep your reins shorter, they won't put their head down.......". Unfortunately, self taught or intensive training, people with that superiority complex will continue to have a superiority complex.


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## sarahver

The only other thing about riding so many horses - it is not for the faint hearted! I guarantee there will be many falls before you begin to learn that you keep you heels down so that you can ride a buck, you keep your upper body upright so that you don't get hit in the face when they rear, you keep you hands steady so that you can control a bolt..... Ha ha makes me sound incredibly paranoid however learning in this manner means that when you eventually have a well trained horse, position comes rather naturally even though you aren't necessarily expecting any adverse events!

I am still riding many different horses for different owners and I swear I learn something different from all of them. Also makes me appreciate a horse when they behave impeccably!


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## MacabreMikolaj

****

I know a girl like that smrobs, and it's just annoying to ride with her already. She's been riding on her own since I've known her, and training her own horses, and it seems like no matter how much time goes by, she never gets ANY smarter. Every horse she owns is just an idiot who she makes excuses for (we can't go that way, the third driveway has a flamingo and my horse hates flamingos) and fights with tooth and nail every ride - she almost always gets run away with or yelled at angrily for bumping someone or creating havoc because her horse is out of control trying to bolt.

And my absolute favorite part is spending 6 hours on the trail listening to her criticize everyone ELSE! She's so narrow minded, she knows it all, and lessons wouldn't even help because she knows more then the coach as well!


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## sarahver

Oops, just realised that what I wrote makes me sound like I am the perfect rider - far from it!! It has served me well so far but I am a 'work in progress' so to speak!


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## JessicaGDA

My previous riding instructor told me that it's impossible to learn without a trainer! And then I heard of not taking lessons, and actually agreed with that more. I'm capable of training horses, rehabilitating horses, and riding only green broke horses... I'm not completely clueless, I know the basics and I think I can carry it on from there. The video idea is great, taping my riding then going and watching it... you guys are always here for critique too anyway.

And when I actually did go ride out on my own at my cousins house, my riding instructor pitched a fit about it(I rode bareback and bridle-less), but the thing is, the horse was VERY VERY well trained, and all we were doing was following my cousin around(without a lead line, but he followed every step she took). I was capable, and completely comfortable, I trusted the horse because of how he was... never saw him buck, kick or rear up on anyone once, he was very very calm... it was 100% safe but I got in trouble for it anyway. I learned a lot that day out there in the field with no instruction than I did with it. I took what I knew and used that to ride then and it was great.


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## PaintHorseMares

smrobs said:


> That's what we're saying. Though we taught ourselves, it isn't pretty and I know I am light years away from what is considered proper position but it is functional and I can still get whatever I want from my horses. Just like there are certain things that it is hard to figure out without someone on the ground pointing them out, there are a lot of things to be learned by figuring some stuff out for yourself. All the proper instruction and the perfect form won't help if a person can't figure out how to sit a trot. Though I probably wouldn't place in a showmanship class, I can ride a cutting horse, a roping horse, haul butt across pretty rough country, train a greenie, and ride a buck without ever accidentally catching their mouth, jabbing a rib, or flopping around on their back.


Exactly.
Years ago when we bought our first mare, I had only been on a horse twice in my life (25 years earlier). Our breeder/trainer/instructor friend (40+ years in the business) spent 1 hour each Sunday for 4 weeks with me in the ring to teach me the basics, we went on 2 trail rides together, and then she told me that she felt comfortable that I wouldn't kill myself ;-)
In the years since then, though I still do ask a question every once in a while, I've 'learned' on my own (including ponying horses) through thousands of miles in the saddle riding anywhere from the country to the grocery store in town. I feel comfortable that I can get from point A to point B safely (and having a good time) on any of our mares, which is all I really care about.
They say experience is the best teacher, and in riding and handling horses, I believe my mental list of 'things not to do' is much longer than my list of 'things to do'.


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## Skipsfirstspike

I have only been a member of this forum for about 4 months.
I find it VERY interesting and enlightening that some of the members who I have very quickly recognized as being more knowledgable, competent, practical and having more common sense than the average poster are advocates for self taught riding.
Namely Smrobs, Wild Spot, PaintHorseMares, and Spyder.
Hmm. I would be interested to hear Speed Racer and Indyhorse's take on this subject.


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## Spyder

Skipsfirstspike said:


> I have only been a member of this forum for about 4 months.
> I find it VERY interesting and enlightening that some of the members who I have very quickly recognized as being more knowledgable, competent, practical and having more common sense than the average poster are advocates for self taught riding.
> Namely Smrobs, Wild Spot, PaintHorseMares, and Spyder.
> Hmm. I would be interested to hear Speed Racer and Indyhorse's take on this subject.


Personally I would not recommend self taught riding for the average rider. I was self taught out of necessity as I simply could not afford lessons and I was taught very basic dressage before I went on my own. I also had a strong will that I was going to succeed.

Without a coach I was lucky enough to latch on to a very good book that took me 2 years to actually understand and only by reading then applying what I thought was written (and making mistakes) it slowly dawned on me the meaning of what I was reading.

I was also lucky enough to have a few judges that would give me "mini lessons" after a show and discuss in detail where I was going off and what was improving. 

I still have that book BTW.


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## Skipsfirstspike

Maybe 'advocates' was the wrong word. I was not implying that you reccomend it for the average person. I just found it interesting that I previously had recognized great horsemanship in those mentioned, and you all happen to share the common experience of being self taught to some capacity.


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## wild_spot

> I just found it interesting that I previously had recognized great horsemanship in those mentioned, and you all happen to share the common experience of being self taught to some capacity.


Firslty, I am flattered that you would class me with Smrobs, Spyder, et al - I have a long way to go before I would consider myself in the same class!

I strongly believe that every kid should have a pony that is safe and of good temper, and that they should spend a year or two just having FUN! Hooning around, trying every discipline they can get their mitts into, doing silly things - Those years were the greatest impact on my riding, far more so than the years I spent competeing - There are things you can learn on a rough as guts pony in the middle of a paddock somewhere that no amount of ring riding can teach you.

In an ideal world, I would reccomend a good mixture of structured learning and real life, learning by mistakes riding. that way, kids can learn the basics of a classically correct position, and meld it with what they are learning about being functional and effective by staying on a naughty little pony in the big, scary world.


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## Skipsfirstspike

Ah, Macabre! Sorry, forgot you first time around, lol. You too!


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## haviris

I don't know what an 'average' self taught person is, but like I said I'm 100% self taught, never taken a single lesson from a pro (or anyone else). And like I said I was a pretty good rider. It was once pointed out that it was obvious I rode mostly bareback because of how I held my feet and legs, I worked to fix it, only thing I can think that was said they may have been taken as critisizing my riding (not sure it really was, just something that was pointed out to me, and was completely correct, more like an observation). I would even say I rode pretty, and I did video myself to help me improve my riding, you don't have to use someone elses eyes.

After an unofficial 10+ or - year break and just getting back my riding has suffered alot! I'm no where near the rider I was, and lessons certainly wouldn't hurt me any, I can't afford any so probably not going to go there (and for sure would never give myself and my horse over to be controlled completely by a trainer, but lesson several times a week would be interesting). I am coming back it's just going to take awhile, and I may never be where I was ( w/ or w/out lessons). 

I am far from a 'know it all', I learn new things almost daily, from my horses, from others, from books, TV, etc. The key is knowing who and what to listen to, and knowing what to brush off, and all you really need to do is pay attention. Sadly it seems many (most?) people not born into a GOOD horse families that atempt to go the self taught route either find themselves taking advice from the wrong people (maybe it's because they are the loudest) or ride for a month and deside they are pros and no longer need to listen to anyone else (worse w/ teenagers), but certainly not all. And those born into BAD horse families are generally doomed from the moment they sit on thier first horse (although I'm sure there are exceptions). 

Being a 'know it all' has nothing to do w/ being self taught, some people just have the mentality, and some are just dumb! I may be getting off topic here (it's 1:30am), but to me it doesn't take much research (or common sense) to realize that buying a 3 year old green stallion for your 6 year old's first horse is a BAD idea! And just as often as not these are people that are working w/ a trainer, I don't know how many stories I've heard from trainers ranting about their clients doing this very thing! So I guess some people really do need some hand holding when buying a horse (I do actually understand this for someone shopping for thier first horse, but how long do they need to be w/ a trainer before they learn to do it on their own? or do they ever?).


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## maz78

Up until now i had never had lessons or thought of having them. When I was a kid mum couldn't aford them and I learnt the basics off a friend of hers. I used to trail ride, and muck around in the paddock, and never had any problems with teaching myself, until now. I now am not as confident as I once was and now instead of tearing around paddocks and stuff I am looking to do a bit of dressage and now really regret not getting those lessons earlier! So I guess it depends on what you want to do with your horse and also on how quiet your horse is also.


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## Lauren Woodard

It also depends on how you want to spend your time and how much you have. If someone can help you with something in a couple of hours that may take you 10 years to learn on your own (assuming you ever do learn it), wouldn't that be nice?


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## Eliz

I didn't read like anything, so sorry if I'm just being a broken record.

I started when I was in kindergarten, riding with a friend on a shetland pony. There were always adults there, they just taught us the basics like kick to go, pull to turn (we didn't learn heels down, eyes up, or even turning with legs). From that time on, I had horses on and off and competed in barrels & such... just fun stuff. Finally, I had my first lesson at age 16. I had always READ the right way to ride, and I would sometimes work on that when I was on the trails.

I woke up to a whole new world when I started lessons. For one, I was in a controlled environment (before that, I just rode in the yard), I had a well-trained horse (I was used to horses that would buck and be stubborn alot) that worked off of leg pressure and voice commands. I remember how the trainers were all impressed at what a natural seat I had and how not-stiff I was. That, and my ability to read a horse.

I fully believe that if I had ridden lesson horses all my life, I would not know close to what I know now. For one, I was never on a "show-ready" horse, and I had to always watch the horse and feel what it was thinking/about to do. I feel that riding in the yard with a less-than-ideal mount has prepared me for what I do now, training. 

Though lessons HAVE taught me alot about me & my riding. I could work on my position & cues instead of worrying about what the horse was going to dish out. I don't take lessons anymore because I feel like I know what I need to know, I just need to apply myself & improve myself. Sometimes if I'm riding a new discipline or something is off I have eyes on the ground, but I don't regularly go out and have a lesson.

Wow, sorry for the novel. And I'm not saying those who are not self-taught for the most part can't read a horse or ride a greener horse, I'm just pointing out how it has helped me.

AND, some people are talented at riding, and some are not... regardless of the amount of hours of lessons. You could put two people with the same instructor the same amount of hours and you can come out with two riders on completely different levels. It just depends on who can use the tool of lessons more efficiantly and who was born to ride.


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## MIEventer

Everyone needs eyes on the ground. Even Olympic Riders have Coaches, and those Coaches keep themselves educated to beable to stay ontop of their educating.


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## wild_spot

^ So who taught the first person? Where did all the knowledge come from?


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## Spyder

wild_spot said:


> ^ So who taught the first person? Where did all the knowledge come from?



I think it would have been termed "natural horsemanship".


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## wild_spot

Lol :]


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## MIEventer

Mmm Hmm - Spyder is right.

Lets go back to Ancient Greece - I mean, way back. Xenophon was the first man who came out with a horse training book titled "The Art Of Horsemanship, A Training Guide For War Horses" and it rippled down from there. Not saying he was the first to ride. 

To the Romans, to the Austrians, to the Millitary, to what we see today. Of course there are others that fill in the gaps between those I've posted....but that's all I can think of right now.

We can watch an Olympic Dressage Competator ride a test, and we can see bits and pieces of the heratige of riding in their style and way of going. We can look at _some _Hunter/Jumpers and Eventers and we can see remnants of the Millitary style.....

The point is, is that riding has evolved. Education has evolved from greats of the past - and what we see today at top levels is where it is for a reason. Many of those "Greats" had coaches, who had coaches - who molded them and formed them into what they became, to beable to be that much of an asset in the riding world.

Big names like George Morris, Jim Wofford, David O'Connor, Beezie Madden, Eric Lamaze, Rodrigo Pessoa and the list goes on. They all had coaches, and now are coaches, who still move forward in their education and experience. Who's students will become coaches and make it in the sport.

Of course there has to be natural ability and talent and the gumption to get up and learn and grow themselves, but you can't make it anywhere without guidance and assistance from someone who is already there. Doesn't have to be a Pro, but should be higher than you in levels.


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## MacabreMikolaj

^

Again, I don't think anyone is insinuating that. If my aunt got as far as she did without a coach, image how much further she's gotten WITH a coach? Nobody is saying you can't do it (probably) better with a coach then without - we're saying it's not some all impossible feat to learn to ride and often ride well without guidance for quite awhile.

Everyone reaches a point where they probably aren't going to go any further, or at least any further and win, without a coach. But if you're happy to trail ride your whole life, who needs to waste money on a coach?


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## Just Ruthiey

I'm self tough, my dad (after we got out of the racing business) threw me up on a horse & said "Here you go kid, go get 'em". He would jump around scare me or the horse, its how I learned to stay on. 
He always said "If you can't deal with a little bit of jumpiness then you have no right to ride".


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## shanoona

I was taught to ride till i learned to stay in the saddle in canter. Then I quit the stable and now I am self-taught. I think I did quite a job, and so did my mare. She taught me a lot, she really isn't easy to ride. I would like to get some trainer now, but for me as well as for my mare. I think I am not on lower level then the others riding the smae length of time. I also tried to learn how to jump, I jump just about 50 centimetres, but it's just for joy, no competitions.


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## corinowalk

I started out 100% self-taught. I liked horses, I volunteered at a stable for riding time and bought my own when I was 14. I couldnt afford a saddle *AND* a horse so I rode bareback for the first year. I remember being annoyed because I wasn't allowed to show the first year...was actually asked to leave the ring in my first competition...because I didnt have a saddle! I didnt think they were necessary! I learned from King who was the ultimate teacher. I've taken a few lessons since then and in my opinion, they were failures. I like riding. I like being with horses. I am a decent rider. What I am not is a perfectionist. I ride well, I stay out of my horses way, I can execute good cues and can ride a pattern bareback naked backwards. If my heel pops...its not the end of my world. If I lean a bit forward it doesnt crush me. Could I be a better looking rider with lessons? Abso-freakin-lutly! Do I care enough? Nope. 

That being said, I do respect a well taught rider. I think lessons are important if you wish to take your riding further than the trail. Those days are long gone for me!


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## Strange

I've been riding for about 13-14 years and have been taking lessons up until 2 years ago. I would still be taking lessons if a) I was planning on competing or b) I had a younger horse I wasn't quite as comfortable training on my own. 

I think it really depends on the person. I know I could have hopped on a horse and been self taught, but I come from a completely non-horsey family and my parents were horrified at the idea of letting me ride a horse without having had lessons first. It just continued from there. I also became incredibly competitive in jumpers and eventing, both disciplines where I would not have wanted to try to self-teach myself in any way, shape, or form. Not only am I a perfectionist about my riding, but I'm also very aware that no matter how many books I read and videos I watch I will never be at the competitive level I want to be without a trainer.


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## lopez

I personally have been getting lessons for my whole horse riding life (about eight years). Last year though after moving I no longer have an instructor and have been sort of teaching myself. I personally think that everyone should have a go with teaching themselves, I've improved my jumping position so much by moving at my own pace and doing what I want to do. I guess you could say I'm 'screwing around' with my riding. I know my horse doesn't mind if I stuff something up.

I have come so far with my horse by teaching myself, I've used methods from all over the web and my knowledge that I already had and I've improved so much and so has my horse.

I guess you could say its personal preference.


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