# My mare is becoming dangerous



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You need some serious hands on help, this is too dangerous and beyond the realm of online help.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

It sounds that she is napping, badly, and dangerously. Your riding skills are not up to it - this is not an insult, it is fact that there are only a small number of people out there with the genuine riding and horsemanship skills to deal with this.

I am thinking that you are in UK. Whereabouts are you?


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

my guess would be that your horse owns you. Like waresbear said you really need some help on this and get some hands on help, or you are right, you, your horse and or someone else is going to get hurt.

Don't take it as a failure on your part, perhaps whatever your experience is the horse was a bit too much for you, it happens to all of us, I have been training horses reasonably regularly for around 26 years, started when I was 12, and once in a while I come across a horse that will have me stumped till I can figure it out. It happens to everyone, its part of learning I guess. The point being here though that this is already into some dangerous territory by the sounds of it. 

At a guess I would say that this horse probably has complete domination of you, no amount of gadgets, stronger bits etc. will fix it, you need to find someone who can work with a spoiled horse and get them on that horse's case and fix it; and show you how to keep it straightened out once they have fixed it. If you don't do that part of it it will all just go back to the way it is now.


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## luvmydrafts (Dec 26, 2013)

oh wow this sounds pretty scary!!!

I agree with the others you need some real life help with this...if it were me i would 1st of all quit riding her a all since you cant rely on her being safe till you get this sorted out...if it is getting slowly worse and worse esp.... you might just want to try a different horse for hacks since she hates it. she is acting out because she hates it, i wouldnt want to make someone do something for my fun that they hate. unless you can get some help getting her used to it and sort out whatever about it that she hates...if it comes time when she doesnt hate it anymore then i bet this problem wont be a problem anymore...good luck!!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I have to agree. this problem may be dealt with by enlisiting the help of a trainer, but for the time being, DO NOT hack out. you are basically gambling by doing this. you are doing what my trainer calls, "sneaking rides", meaning you are just getting lucky in riding a horse that does not have the needed training, nor you have the needed skills. I am not saying I could deal with that, in fact, I would have probably long back gotten off that mare.

sorry that we cannot offer really simple advice.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks for the reply's. I have had experienced people on her and they said that they feel uneasy on her she feels like a bomb about the explode. I am thinking now that I might for the time being just take her around the woods as she loves going out. I have got some videos of her doing it so I will have to post them to see if that helps at all. I am in the uk in north wales


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

My mare gets like this in the summer hence why i gave up riding in the summer. I would get a trainer asap. Falling from a horse hurts (i know i have had 3 nasty spills from my mare bolting) but add cars into the equation and you, the horse or both will end up seriously hurt or dead. I see a barn sour issue, a training issue or even a underlying health issue (sometimes mare's weird behavior can be linked to ovarian cysts).


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with the others. This is not a situation that you can cure alone.

Riding on the roads in the UK is risky at the best of times and for most a necessity. To have a horse hook off with you at their want is highly dangerous. 

What type of horse is she, what age? What bit? 

I would like to see videos of her especially when she spins.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I have already fallen off her twice because of the bolting first time she knocked me unconscious and my back is now always going to be half num. The second time she bolted and fell and landed ontop of me she is a id x cob and 19 years old. She is in a myler bit, I will uploads the vids now they were all taken from my hat cam so not the best videos.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_bG1usUY8&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRr-wwUw18U&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCx_4g31Y24&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5Q1KFgpRE&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69i_roIYnsw&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ&index=5


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

This time she span and bolted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2_bG1usUY8&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ


This is when she heard another horse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRr-wwUw18U&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ

This time up the drive way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCx_4g31Y24&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ&index=2

this time she went into a trot then bolted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5Q1KFgpRE&list=UUOgA2IIFCZ_tjqDK0rArKhQ&index=3


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

If I were in your shoes, I would be taking a lot of lessons in an arena with a good flatwork instructor, which will strengthen your position, improve your communication with and give you more control over your horse. No idea how well schooled your horse is (couldn't tell from videos), and at 19, I would expect her to know something, but in any case, a good instructor could help get her more in front of the leg and in the hand. In the meantime, don't ride on the roads.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

You need more help than a bulletin board can provide. I watched, so far, the first two videos, I think. At least, the first ended, and the second began playing immediately (Sian bolting today). In that video, I can identify two problems, without even seeing you ride. First, as you walk along, the horse decides to stop on her own and snatch some grass. You let her. You aren't riding her. She is riding you. Second, you are constantly talking to her in baby talk--high pitched, cajoling, wheedling sounds, as if you are asking her to behave. I can't see how you ride, but I suspect you nag at her while she is under saddle. Twitching reins here or there, nudging with leg here or there...until she is desensitized to the idea that the rider is in charge. I could be wrong, but I can't tell until I see a video of you riding.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

I can tell you that if I was on her and she attempted this, I would take one rein and quickly pull her head to the my knee (one rein stop - critical for all horses to know) with a very firm KNOCK IT OFF... I can't see from the first two videos any obvious cues, either verbal or physical, just seems like you are along for the ride.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

cleohorse said:


> I have already fallen off her twice because of the bolting first time she knocked me unconscious and my back is now always going to be half num. The second time she bolted and fell and landed ontop of me she is a id x cob and 19 years old. She is in a myler bit, I will uploads the vids now they were all taken from my hat cam so not the best videos.


please really try to be careful, especially when it comes to your back. When I was 18 I was training a horse for a lady and I was pretty cocky, I could stick to most things that bucked and thought I was pretty good (nowhere near as good as I thought I was) and anyway this horse started to buck, I was just riding her bareback with a halter and treated it all as a joke I over estimated my abilities and underestimated hers, she dumped me fair on my tailbone. I could hardly walk for a few days but as most 18 year olds do I figured I was pretty indestructible. I then put my back out about a week after I came good fixing a fence, and about 6 months after that I rode in a saddlebronc ride at a rodeo and got dumped right on my tailbone again. I have hurt my back a few other times working with horses and cattle and now, I have really bad pain in my lower back with increasing regularity, it really does suck. I don't know how old you are but I can tell you from direct experience that back injuries do catch up with you and they can make everything hard to impossible. No horse is worth that kind of debilitating injury, do try to be careful.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Yeah, as above. Although to my surprise, very few people I meet in the UK know the one-rein stop. But you can bet I would be spending time in the school putting one on that horse.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I am 19 I was 15 when she knocked me unconscious I have tried the one rein stop it does not work at all. I normally say good girl to her when she is being could in the videos I have muted them so you cannot here me talking to her. I have been talking lessons but I can now not get to the arena as it is down the road and we only have a field which she bolts in. She acts to same for my instructor who is very very experienced


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I did use to nag with my leg but only in the school as she is very forward. My instructor has said she cannot tell from riding why she does.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

cleohorse said:


> I am 19 I was 15 when she knocked me unconscious I have tried the one rein stop it does not work at all. I normally say good girl to her when she is being could in the videos I have muted them so you cannot here me talking to her. I have been talking lessons but I can now not get to the arena as it is down the road and we only have a field which she bolts in. She acts to same for my instructor who is very very experienced


a one rein stop might be ok but from what I have always found its not the magic fix its sometimes held up as. Basically its the way I train a horse to stop, not just some emergency break (depending on what one means by it). But the horse needs to be trained to it in the first place, a horse will keep running forwards with its head bent all the way around to the side it if can keep its back end lined up with its front end so its not really surprising if it didn't work if she has never been trained for it. Bending the head is one thing, disengaging the drive is another. And if you really get some brute force involved there's a danger of pulling the horse over with it.

things probably aren't beyond salvage, by the sounds of it the horse isn't so far gone that it cant be pulled into shape if you can get someone who know how. If you can handle her, get a saddle on her and so on, with the right help I figure you should be able to get her back. My guess would be that it will have to start from the ground up. See how she behaves when you feed her, or catch her, see how she looks at you, if she lays her ears back or jams her tail and so on, that should give you an indication on where the trouble is starting off and where the fixing will have to start. Just be careful, like I said above, no horse is worth suffering debilitating injuries for.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Get a second opinion from a different trainer? They may pick up on something else. The one-rein stop has to be taught. The horse needs to yield at the poll and jaw, bring it's head around, and disengage the hindquarters. It has to be well schooled enough to respond to that rein aid, even when stressed. It looks to me, from those videos, that when the horse takes off, you're sitting there being kind of ineffective, just going along for the ride. 

I suspect the horse does it because she knows she can, and it gets her out of going anywhere that she might find a little bit worrying. Do you, or your instructor, back off from whatever you are doing when she takes off? It has now become a habit, which might be a real pain for you to break. If you really want to keep working with this horse, would it be possible for you to send her to a pro yard for a period of serious reschooling?


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

It looks as if you are riding on pavement which I think could be very bad when riding a horse that bolts. It could slip and you could have a nasty fall.
I would not be riding that horse out anywhere until I had more control of it.
Riding a horse like that is no fun and we are supposed to enjoy time with our horse which I don't think you are. I would suggest getting professional help or if that doesn't work for you, find another horse that is quieter and better trained. It's ok to tell yourself that this is not the horse for you. Better than getting yourself killed trying to ride this one.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

she is great on the ground she is not pushy she is great to catch see comes running neighing as soon as she sees me. She has great manners she is great to tack up and groom. She is only naughty when you ride her. When she takes off or trys to my instructor willnot let her get away with it but sian will start to be threating and will try to get you off her back. I was riding her in the field and I told her off and she tried to buck me off


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I also did think about getting another horse that was a happy hacker. What is worrying me about that is what if all the behaviour is all my fault them I don't want to get another horse incase I turn the new horse into a bolter as well


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

cleohorse said:


> she is great on the ground she is not pushy she is great to catch see comes running neighing as soon as she sees me. She has great manners she is great to tack up and groom. She is only naughty when you ride her. When she takes off or trys to my instructor willnot let her get away with it but sian will start to be threating and will try to get you off her back. I was riding her in the field and I told her off and she tried to buck me off


ok fair enough, I just ask because a lot of this sounds like a respect issue and those kinds of issues usually start off on the ground. If she was being a bit naughty when you caught saddled or fed her those kinds of things can be pretty obvious and usually give hints that she will be disrespectful once you are on her back. 

Yet, all the same, even if she is well behaved when you handle her on the ground, that doesn't necessarily mean that a good dose of groundwork won't help straighten things out, at least a little. For example, one of the first horses I learned how to do decent ground work on never really showed any disrespect when you handled him on the ground. There was a few things, he didn't like getting on a truck for one, but he didn't lay his ears back or really challenge me much, ya know, looking back on it I don't remember him ever even threatening to bite or kick even in the very early stages of training him, he was always pretty kind and gentle horse; and anything he did do could kinda be put down to other causes than disrespect, like a bit of fear of the unknown. once I was on his back he wasn't as good as he should have been. But once I got a good foundation on him through groundwork it still made a phenomenal difference in everything, including how he went under saddle.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

cleohorse said:


> she is great on the ground she is not pushy she is great to catch see comes running neighing as soon as she sees me. She has great manners she is great to tack up and groom. She is only naughty when you ride her. When she takes off or trys to my instructor willnot let her get away with it but sian will start to be threating and will try to get you off her back. I was riding her in the field and I told her off and she tried to buck me off


None of this tells me that she isn't disrespectful on the ground. It only tells me that you may not recognize it. Another thing I noticed in the videos I saw was that she is alert, but not necessarily AFRAID. She is doing everything she does because she CAN. Your instructor doesn't let her get away with it, you say...neither should you. Her next avoidance tactic is bucking, you say. This has all the earmarks of a spoiled, bratty horse that has been allowed to call the shots for far too long. You sweet talking her doesn't help. Telling her off doesn't help. You are simply a passenger, annoying her with sounds and ineffectual cues. Everything you've said and that I watched in the videos points to that conclusion. You need to work her little butt hard, and get her listening to you in a confined space, where her tactics won't work. You need to make sure she has good brakes, good go, good right and left--working off of seat and leg and weight--before you take her very dangerous little hiney back into the world. It's all fun and games until someone gets squashed by a car or 1500 lbs of badly trained horse.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

Thank you for the comments they have been helpful. She has got good breaks, and she will go left and right. But only to places she knows well like we always go right at the cross roads if I go left or straight on that's whens issues start. Trust me on the ground she is great she backs up when told, she never pulls she waits for you to tell her to walk anyone could handle her on the ground. This behaviour only happens on the road as well she is great in the woods. Do you think I should just keep going then and just stop hacking and only take her too the woods to get her to listen to me.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I am going to speak truthfully and as I see it. I am not trying to be nasty, only truthful.

The first video I immediately noticed that the pair of you were ambling along as if you were going to a funeral. The mare was looking around - particularly to the right. She then use the horse on the other side of the hedge as an excuse to turn. You then turned her in. Full circle to get her facing the way you were going.
*always turn the horse back against the direction it turned so you should have hauled her to the left.*

You need to be tougher with her and make her walk out and trot _away from home._

In the video where she cantered off with you, again you were just being a passenger and allowing her to amble, you even allowed her to stop and eat a definite NO NO in my book.
Stop talking to her in a pleading voice and start giving her commands. She is just taking advantage of you. If she does take off shorten yours left rein, put your right hand down on her withers and give her a sock in the teeth with the left rein. 
She is not bolting, she is just hooking off with you, two very different things, but can be equally dangerous.
If she is doing the same with an experienced friend then I would go so far as to say that this friend is not so experienced! 

You say when you rode her in a filed she tanks off. Take her in that field and before she tanks off, make her go into a canter and keep her cantering until she is puffed out and then canter her for several minutes more. 

I do not believe she is a nasty or dangerous horse, I think she is just taking a big advantage over you. 

Make her much more forward when going away from the stables, pull her up,hard if she takes off, turn her around and make her trot in the opposite direction and then turn and go the way you wanted at a good walk. 
Stop sweet talking her, she is not afraid, be bossy with her and take leadership on and off her, stop goving her *any* hard feed and get as long as possible on her riding her forward all the time with a contact so that she is not looking around.

I am sure you can do it!


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## hornedfrog89 (Feb 17, 2014)

cleohorse said:


> Thank you for the comments they have been helpful. She has got good breaks, and she will go left and right. But only to places she knows well like we always go right at the cross roads if I go left or straight on that's whens issues start. Trust me on the ground she is great she backs up when told, she never pulls she waits for you to tell her to walk anyone could handle her on the ground. This behaviour only happens on the road as well she is great in the woods. Do you think I should just keep going then and just stop hacking and only take her too the woods to get her to listen to me.



I don't think Sian is giving you fits because she doesn't 'know' the area when you go down different roads, she's giving you fits because she doesn't want to go that way. She's going to lure you in a direction she's familar with so that she knows when she's going back home.

In the video you let her eat grass and you talk to her in a baby voice when she's bolting. It's very obvious this horse is in charge. Like skiafoxmorgan said, this horse is Bratty and spoiled - it's dangerous. It's obviously she DOES NOT have good brakes if she's bolting on you. Do not go out of an arena until you get a grasp on this behavior. 

When I first started riding the lesson horse I ride now, he was ridden by an older man whom picked up hobbies on a whim because he had the financial means to do so. In the handful of months he rode, He spoiled that horse rotten - he let the horse do whatever he wanted and fed him bags and bags of carrots regardless of his behavior. When it would come my time to ride, the horse would nip at me CONSTANTLY and refuse the bit. One day, he trotted out of the riding arena with me on, back towards his paddock. I was still a newb then, and it scared me to death. He wouldn't turn back no matter what I did.

We corrected this by making the horse ride in the indoor arena for a few weeks. Fully encloused, he couldn't be a butt. 

The older man didn't ride much - maybe once a week - but the results of his spoiling were great. And especially since I was new, I didn't know how to deal with a bratty horse - the horse knew that and took full advantage of it. My trainers had to have a talk with the old man. It took a long time and for the old man to eventually leave for the horse to return to normal. 

You're going to have to change how you treat your horse for your horse to change.


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## 2BigReds (Oct 7, 2011)

Not having watched the videos (I'm at work) but having read through everything, I think your horse and mine are probably quite similar in personality. When I first got him, he tested me. A LOT. He still does at times, in little ways, and that's probably always how he will be. If I wasn't a strong, consistent (at least to the best of my ability, I'm no professional trainer for certain) and FAIR rider and handler, he would be a huge brat. Not to try and hurt me or anyone else as the motive, but it very well could get to that point if he got pushy to get whatever else he wanted.

That being said, Sock has tried to bolt with me three times. Two of them I got his brain back in order within a single stride, so we stopped for a few seconds, then moved on like nothing happened. The third time I couldn't get him back quickly enough, so off we went! And went...and went...and WENT. For probably about five times longer than he thought he wanted to. It hasn't happened again, no matter how scared he's been of something. The worst he'll ever do is scramble or get his feet underneath him if he sees something that he doesn't likes. His laziness definitely worked in my favor here! :lol:

Now don't get me wrong, I have a GOOD horse. He is awesome and I couldn't ask for more. Nowadays he takes darn good care of me on days that I'm arthritic and can't physically do a whole heck of a lot if he decides that he doesn't want to. But it didn't start out that way, and he didn't get that way on accident. We have a great level of respect for each other but it has most definitely been EARNED.

I agree with some of the posters above in that this is not a bad horse, but a spoiled rotten horse. She has your number and will use it as she pleases! I also would get a second opinion from a different trainer as I can't imagine paying someone to teach me to ride when they can't handle my horse better than I can.

That all being said, I wish you much luck and very much hope that this gets resolved before you get hurt again!


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

She needs her food as she an issue with her legs so she needs her supplement to keep her going. She also is on a calmer which she needs to have but she had her food in the morning. She does not normal eat on hacks that was just a one off on the video. I had a fall in November and sian fell over on her side on some rocks and ever since that she has started to turn around before going on the road. When on her back she feels tense and jumps and random things and my riding instructor said she feels like she has had an accident when she tried to walk her down the drive. I don't spoil her at all she comes in and gets a groom and a net and that's it. I do shout at her as well. I don't have the choice of a ménage and if she goes to bolt if I ask her to canter she uses her speed against me and she will just speed off. Thanks for the comments it has shown me that this behaviour is all because of me so I think I will not get enough horse and even have some more lessons or I might see if someone wants to loan her as I don't want to ride her if I have ruined her incase I make her worse


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## lovebearsall (Jan 9, 2011)

cleohorse said:


> I don't want to ride her if I have ruined her incase I make her worse


Ok, I wasn't going to say anything since I haven't been riding long enough to feel qualified to give advice, but now I have to say something. What I am going to add here is my EXPERIENCE, not the advice of an experienced horseperson. Know that before you continue to read.

First off, I want to address the part of your comment I quoted here. Saying you have ruined this horse may be a bit of an oversimplification of what I see. Earlier in the thread, you said you were 15 when this horse dumped you and knocked you unconscious, then said that you are 19 now and I also read that the horse is 19. What you don't say is how old you were when you started riding her. So here's my thought based on the little information you provided. YOU did not single handedly RUIN this horse! At 19, she should not be even trying these sorts of things if she had not been allowed to form this habit some time before you even got her.

Ok, now, here's the part that you should read knowing I am speaking from the things I have been through in the SHORT amount of time I've been riding (3 1/2 years). When I watched the videos, I did NOT see a spinning, bolting horse. I saw a horse that was allowed to TURN, then CANTER back the way she wanted. Yes, YOU allowed this to happen by not stopping her from turning back in the first place, but I just don't see a "dangerous" horse in these videos. Maybe the helmet cam makes it look more gentle than it really is, IDK? The horses that I have ridden through spins and bolts were MUCH quicker moving than what I saw. My mare used to spin a 90 degree angle and she was bolting as soon as her feet hit the ground from the spin. She would have about 3 strides before I was back to an upright position and she did NOT give warning (this was her way of spooking). When I watched the video, I could tell the exact moment your mare was getting ready to turn by her expression. On top of letting her turn around, it did not look like you did much to stop her from going on into the canter. I have used the one rein stop MANY times on horses that want to run away with me. Implement that as SOON as she hits the trot, don't even give her a chance to get into a canter. Back her up and MAKE her turn around and head the other direction. 

This mare obviously has the upper hand with you hun. This is not said to put you down at all, but for you to ride her, you have GOT to be much, MUCH more assertive with her than you are right now. If you truly still feel YOU ruined her, then YOU fix her! Fix you too by taking the upper hand. I ended up giving my mare to someone after I had ridden her about a year, but by the time I gave her away she was a great horse. I didn't have any trouble out of her at all. 2 months my friend had her, she was unrideable because she needed an assertive rider and my friend was much to timid to make her mind. If she had just taken her in hand a little firmer, this would've been a great horse. I had even put true beginners on her with no problem before my friend got her. 

Ok, all that said, if you feel you can't ride this mare any more, look for one that will NOT take advantage of a timid rider. They do exist. I've seen them. I've ridden them. I have two in my field right now! Good luck and I look forward to POSITIVE updates.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

Thankyou for the reply  

Sian was 14 when I first got her and I was 14 when I first got her. I brought her as a safe hack and she was but I did not know that she had a bad leg making her plod around. She has always had a bit bolting about her even though she had a bad leg one of the first times I rode her she bolted down a really fast road with me. I am maybe to nice I agree with that but I do shout at her I will go mad at her if she is really naughty. I think I can sort her out I have been riding for 13 years so you would think after that long I would at least be able to stop her bolting. It is just that I see other people at the stables going out on hacks exploring and having fun and I cannot even go down the road on sian. I don't think she is dangerous but were she bolts is dangerous and some people I know keep telling me she is going to kill me and others keep saying you have ruined her. I will try to fix her just to prove them wrong but I have been having these issues for nearly 4 years now and nothing I do seems to work. I would love to go out and buy a nice hacking horse which I could go out on but as much as it would be great I kind of feel like that would not be fair on sian I have kind of made her worse so I should sort her out not just get a new horse. Fingers crossed a year from now I might be saying how well she is doing hopefully


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## lovebearsall (Jan 9, 2011)

Maybe shouting at her isn't necessarily what I mean by being assertive. For me, the "assertiveness" comes from the way you handle her. If she tries to turn to the right, you MAKE her go to the left by holding that left rein and making it so she really has some resistance and just CAN'T go the way she wants. Pop her butt if you have to to let her know you mean business. Now trust me, I KNOW this might mean you'll get a buck or my mare used to kick, but she learned that I wasn't going to tolerate letting her go where she wanted to go and she absolutely was going where I wanted because I was an assertive rider. If her bucking scares you and you know she will respond that way if you get too aggressive, then you'll have to decide if she is too unsafe for your riding style. If you want to keep riding her in the safe places, do that just for the fun of it, but know you won't be teaching her to behave-you're still giving her what she wants by compromising what it is you REALLY want.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

cleohorse said:


> Thanks for the reply's. I have had experienced people on her and they said that they feel uneasy on her she feels like a bomb about the explode. I am thinking now that I might for the time being just take her around the woods as she loves going out. I have got some videos of her doing it so I will have to post them to see if that helps at all. I am in the uk in north wales


Owning and riding horses is about fun....NOT about being fearful with a dangerous horse. Send this one down the road and find one suited to your experience and needs. There are a ton of them out. I spend NO TIME with a horse that is a mismatch for me. They get 9 months...and if it's not going to work, I sell and find one that does work. I've been doing this far too long to put up with bad minded horses....it's just not worth it money-wise, safety-wise, and fun-wise.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Please do *not* put yourself down! You have not ruined her because everything is solvable. 
I understand that it is frightening when you are not in control. (In over 50 years of riding I cannot tell you the number of times I have been hooked off with though, in all that time I have only ever been _bolted_ with once. 

Forget the falling over some rocks, she will have done and the 'fear' of walking down the drive is probably just napping in a more minor way. 

Unless you are terrified of riding her in the field try taking her out there and just letting her run. She will want to stop and then you take over making her keep going for several laps more. Then you give her a breather and just before she gets her breath back you make her go again.

Anyone who has ridden for any amount of time will admit to making mistakes with horses. Fortunately they survive and forgive. We just learn from those mistakes.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

Cleo, don't beat yourself up. My last horse-but-two came to me as a herd-bound cow-baggage with a strong personality and the ability to Nap for England. She was lovely in the school, or hacking out in company, and on the ground but she was a b****h when I tried to hack out alone. I was in over my head and so I called in help.

I found a guy that specialised in re-backing problem horses - the ones that other people wrote off as 'mad, bad, and dangerous'. She was not mad or bad, nor did she need re-backing, but I needed someone with his level of skills to deal with this for me.

So he rode her out, he hunted her, he taught her to accept certain situations AND most importantly he taught me how to deal with it.

The more experienced people who have sat on your horse and said she is like 'a bomb about to go off' may be more experienced than you but the very fact that they said that is proof that they are not experienced ENOUGH.

I suggest you do two things:

1 - phone up the secretary to your local Hunts.

Hunts in North Wales

Explain that you have a mare who is napping very badly, and that you don't have the skills to deal with it. Ask if they can recommend anyone you could hire to help you. BE AWARE that all these people are naturally suspicious of anyone who they do not know calling them up; they may be guarded when talking to you. Don't take this to heart, it is a reflection of the actions of the sabatoers, not on you.

2 - go around all your local tack shops with the same query. Ask for recommendations. 

Do not fear - there is SOMEONE out there that can help you. You just need to find them.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A horse tried this with me. He was in a snaffle so with both hands on the left rein I strong-armed his head until his chin was on top of my knee and he was looking at me. I made it real uncomfortable for him. After doing this a few times he realised it's easier on him to respond to the reins


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Watched some of videos, and one thing noticed is when you can see her ears? She is constantly checking to see if can get by with something.

That one ear flicking back, while still being alert with the other? She's thinking about doing something and is seeing if you are paying attention or not.

Will say that if you are a babier in any way? Any horse you get will more than likely develop this problem too. Sweet talking and jabbering away to a horse makes them worse.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I don't sweet talk at all. when riding I will say good girl and give her a pat but I will also say no and make her walk on. It is obvious that we don't work at all together so I will try my best to get her sorted and I cannot not then I will just stop doing the hacking and just stick to the field or the woods and start having riding lessons instead of getting a new horse as I don't want to make a new horse have the same issues as sian has got


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

When next you try hacking, pick a spot way up ahead, and focus on that. Don't look down at the road or her ears. This will keep your chin up and your whole body will tell the horse this is where you are going. As you approach that spot pick another. There's an old cowboy saying, if you look at the ground you are picking a spot to come off. Don't even think of where or when she might misbehave, just stay focused on that spot way up the road. Don't pet her or talk to her. Do you carry a riding crop? Sometimes just moving it will provide enough incentive to keep going. If you think she is going to try to hurry home, if you can do so safely then dismount and make her walk farther away first then walk home. Any time she tries to quicken her pace, quickly reverse and start walking the other way. Don't worry about it if this results in a hard yank on her head. The more you do this the more she'll start paying attention to you and not home. BTW, NO treats or feed when you get back. Tie her up if she ties well and let her wait an hour but do keep an eye on her. Again, no talking or petting. You are making home not quite as nice as she wants or perhaps you've created.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

Good idea I will try it tonight I don't carry a crop but I have one which I can take with me. The only issue is I cannot get off her and lead her I have done that before and she has nearly pulled me over as she will try to rush home and just drag me. If she has been bad when I get back I just put her out if she has been good then I would give her a net a brush down then put her out


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## lovebearsall (Jan 9, 2011)

Something else I remembered I used to do with a couple of mine that wanted to rush home. When we got home, they WORKED, then stood tied for a while. I would push them harder around the barn than they had worked the entire 8 hours of the trail ride!  That did help a LOT. Both horses learned that there wasn't anything they wanted to rush home to.


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## dernhelm1984 (Dec 19, 2013)

Cleo, do NOT think you "ruined" this mare! That just isn't true at all! If anything you have been brave to keep after it despite the scary and incredibly frustrating situation. You are also wise enough that you know things haven't been good and are actively seeking advice. 

Everyone here has given good advice, and don't forget that you DO have options here. You can try the techniques suggested here, get another trainer to look at her for another opinion and advice, etc. And if you really and truly are getting frustrated with Sian and the situation just doesn't improve, don't be afraid to consider a new horse! Situations like this happen all the time in the horse world!

Good luck and let us know how things go!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

cleohorse said:


> I don't sweet talk at all. when riding I will say good girl and give her a pat but I will also say no and make her walk on. It is obvious that we don't work at all together so I will try my best to get her sorted and I cannot not then I will just stop doing the hacking and just stick to the field or the woods and start having riding lessons instead of getting a new horse as I don't want to make a new horse have the same issues as sian has got


well, you're doing something I'm hearing in the videos....sounds like sweet talking, but okay. When she stopped (ON HER OWN ACCORD), and you actually let her take some grass, I called the issue. My horse stops to snatch grass, she is getting snatched herself and made to work. She hasn't snatched grass in a few weeks now, unless we are walking through a field with grass to her nose. That still irks me.

You want to get her sorted, you're going to have to "be mean." No more asking her nicely to do something. No more relaxing. This is business. This is your life--and your horse's. She walks out, and as soon as she thinks to stop (and you can feel it, if you have any horse sense about you), you drive her on. Don't nag or move your legs around constantly. Don't twitch your reins constantly. Let her make her mistake and then correct her firmly. If you are hesitant with your riding, which I suspect you are, she will take advantage. You tell her what to do with clear, direct cues, and if she takes a step out of line, you demand the proper action. 

riding lessons are a great idea. But don't take lessons from the 16 year old down the road. Take lessons from an actual riding instructor that sometimes yells and picks apart your leg position and hands. 

YOU need to decide you're tired of this nonsense, and you need to convey that to the horse.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

Thank you for the comments they are very useful x Something else which needs sorting is this sometime we will be walking out and it is fine. If I have to turn her around to go home early then she will refuse to go back home she will only keep going. Do I just do the same as if she turns push her on and not let her turn at all? I will consider lessons as well but I will need to move yards in order to have the lessons as I currently have no ménage.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I was going to remark about the ears as well. Her whole attitude says she is not focused on you but forward except to check on you and the level of resistance she is likely to get. I got this with no sound just motion. I agree this isn't a mare spinning or madly bolting for home ( or whatever direction). She is in full control going at a comfortable speed for her. As you aren't in control it makes it a dangerous situation for you. IF I am reading responses correctly then your voice does not command respect. Even if it did if there was no follow up or expectation on the horse's part that there would be a CTJ if there was no positive response following a correction (voice command) then she knows she is the boss.


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## lovebearsall (Jan 9, 2011)

cleohorse said:


> Thank you for the comments they are very useful x Something else which needs sorting is this sometime we will be walking out and it is fine. If I have to turn her around to go home early then she will refuse to go back home she will only keep going. Do I just do the same as if she turns push her on and not let her turn at all? I will consider lessons as well but I will need to move yards in order to have the lessons as I currently have no ménage.


She sounds like a very set in HER way type of horse! LOL Yes, make her do what YOU want her to do. If you want to go home and she tries to turn, don't let her, push her on toward the house.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

cleohorse said:


> Good idea I will try it tonight I don't carry a crop but I have one which I can take with me. The only issue is I cannot get off her and lead her I have done that before and she has nearly pulled me over as she will try to rush home and just drag me.


It sounds as if it would be good to do some work on leading her with the bridle. Is there somewhere close to home that she doesn't want to go? You should practise leading her, taking unusual routes where she's not used to going, to put her to the test. And if she tries to take off, you must give a sharp tug on the reins, let her run tiny circles round you if she must, and pull her in to you until she stops. It's crucial for you to have control of her on the ground so that if things get hairy when you're hacking, you can always get off and walk her home. When I say do this close to home, I mean really close, so that it's safe even if she DOES take off and you have to let go. But if that happens, catch her up and take her out again so that you always end the session on a winning note for you.

I think this mare has got used to making the decisions about where you go when you're out. If she has been doing this for four years, it will be hard to turn the situation on its head. You need to pick your battles carefully, and put her in situations where you know you can win, and then make your demands and make sure she falls into line. To start off with, these battles might be nothing bigger than deciding to turn left or right in the fields, small things that will help to establish that you are the boss. It sounds to me as if your mare is very set in her ways, so ask her to do nexpected things in a small way. Halt her in places where there's no reason to stop, make her disengage her hindquarters, then continue. Small exercises like this will set you up for success when you want her to turn left at the junction where you always go right.

Avoid routine on the trails if possible. When I am hacking I often don't have a fixed route plan, but when I get to a junction I can feel which way my horse wants to go. Smetimes I go with her, other times I tell her we're going the other way. It's ok to let them decide sometimes AS LONG as you know they will obey you without a fuss if you decide differently.

[/QUOTE] 
If she has been bad when I get back I just put her out if she has been good then I would give her a net a brush down then put her out[/QUOTE]
Do what Saddlebag said and tie her up for at least half an hour when you get back. There is nothing disagreeable for her about being put straight back out, even without the hay net. Making her arrival back home a bit less pleasant could have an enormous payback. I am working on a herdbound pony at present, and I always leave her tied after riding. 

Sorry about this essay. I just hate to think of you and your horse having a hard time together instead of being able to enjoy each other. I am sure your horse can improve, but you must learn to be firm and absolutely consistent with her. Never go aling with her decisions unless youcan prove it was your idea first!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I think I will try the walking out to different places.  today I took her up the woods and I took her a different way I did not talk to her as much and when we went to go down she tried to turn me around which I stopped after a bit of an argument she went down as soon as we cam onto the path she went into a trot which I could not stop so I pulled her back but she just raised her head up so I could not stop her but I did get her to stop in the end. I am pleased that she did that on her own. Not sure I want to try her back on the road just yet as it is busy and lots of traffic. But I do feel mean a little bit telling her off I know it will do her good to know she is not the boss but I hate feeling I get after telling her off


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

It is far, far better and indeed kinder to tell the horse off in a big, emphatic way that makes plain what they should or should not be doing than it is to be constantly nagging at it. For example, if I had a horse take off in trot and refuse to stop, it would be spinning in so many tiny little circles it would be dizzy. The other option, as someone above said, is to push it on when it takes off and not let it stop even when it wants to. You need a safe space and a velcro butt for that method, though. They soon learn it is easier to just do what you want. But that's why you and the horse need the schooling. For corrections to work, you and the horse have to be working off the aids in the first place. If a horse knows to follow rein and leg pressure, I can spin it around easily.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

thesilverspear said:


> It is far, far better and indeed kinder to tell the horse off in a big, emphatic way that makes plain what they should or should not be doing than it is to be constantly nagging at it. For example, if I had a horse take off in trot and refuse to stop, it would be spinning in so many tiny little circles it would be dizzy. *The other option, as someone above said, is to push it on when it takes off and not let it stop even when it wants to.* You need a safe space and a velcro butt for that method, though. They soon learn it is easier to just do what you want. But that's why you and the horse need the schooling. For corrections to work, you and the horse have to be working off the aids in the first place. If a horse knows to follow rein and leg pressure, I can spin it around easily.


This!! This puts the ball back in YOUR court. When you do this, suddenly it's not so much fun any more for the horse because it's not THEIR idea to go faster and for longer. 

This mare has a HUGE radar, as evidenced by the ears and gawking around at everything, and total lack of focus. Kudos to you for sticking with her for so long!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

A couple things come to mind after watching the first two videos.

1. You're riding on a path that has solid bushes on either side, with occasional breaks in the shrubbery. Most horses will freak out a little at the breaks in the shrubs. it's a great place for cougars to hide and jump out of.  When she freaks out at a particular spot, you should turn her around and make her walk past it back and forth until she stops freaking. Letting her rush by it is permission to misbehave. Someone already mentioned it, but letting her stop to eat is a bad habit. Again, puts her in charge, not you.

2. Just before your horse starts to freak out, you start looking all over the place. You seem nervous BEFORE your horse seems nervous. It's like you're cueing her into the fact that there's something out there that worries you. I think you're helping to trigger her bolts with your own worries that she's going to bolt soon. 

3. Your reaction when she speeds up is to start making noises like a crazed chipmunk (ha ha). That doesn't sound soothing to me; it sounds like a person who's scared, which is only going to make the horse scared too. Next time try something lower in tone, the same sound you make to stop a horse ("whooah" or whatever word you use.)

I only watched the first two videos, but I'm guess it's the same issues in the others. I could be wrong! 

Best of luck. She seems really cute from that top view you have.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

*Massive update*

Hi,

Well I have a massive update on this bolting/napping issues. Her old owner got in contact with me this person broke sian in and has had her up to she was around 12. She said that she has been used in a trekking centre and ever since being backed she has been behind a large group of horses and they always went down the same lane everyday being lead . So Sian has never ever been hacked out alone and has never been hacked anywhere apart from that one lane so these issues are all due to her confidence. The lady did say she took her out once on her own and she said can see why she would be unsafe to hack out alone. She should of never been sold to me as a 100% confidence giver. I have also decided that she is going to be retired as a semi-retired hack and I am going to get a new horse, as when sian bolts it is getting to the point were I am getting off and I ending up trembling and in tears as she is really scaring me.


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## Starlite (Jan 25, 2011)

cleohorse said:


> Hi,
> 
> Well I have a massive update on this bolting/napping issues. Her old owner got in contact with me this person broke sian in and has had her up to she was around 12. She said that she has been used in a trekking centre and ever since being backed she has been behind a large group of horses and they always went down the same lane everyday being lead . So Sian has never ever been hacked out alone and has never been hacked anywhere apart from that one lane so these issues are all due to her confidence. The lady did say she took her out once on her own and she said can see why she would be unsafe to hack out alone. She should of never been sold to me as a 100% confidence giver. I have also decided that she is going to be retired as a semi-retired hack and I am going to get a new horse, as when sian bolts it is getting to the point were I am getting off and I ending up trembling and in tears as she is really scaring me.


I am sorry that you are going through this. I noticed immediately she spins and bolts when she is approaching a clearing. She is 19 years old - has her vision been checked?


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## fffarmergirl (Nov 21, 2012)

I'm a beginner myself so I'm not offering advice here. I'm just wondering why nobody has suggested having a full-scale Come To Jesus meeting with this horse? I realize the OP is maybe a quieter, more timid person and might not naturally have a "Come To Jesus" type of personality. I'm quiet and timid myself and being taught how to do this literally brought me to tears. It involves aggressive body language, and even faking looking aggressive makes me want to cry, but I tell you what - a badly misbehaving horse changed her whole tune for me when my friend taught me how to do it.

After I'd let her get away with some things for several days in a row, she just kept escalating and then one day she went bucking bronc crazy on me. She threw me so I got right back on like you're supposed to but I was shaking like a leaf and didn't want to stay on her. I got off and literally had to force myself to get mad, or act mad, rather than leaving the barn crying. I got the lunge whip and lunged that horse hard - yelling at her and using aggressive body language and making her do lots and lots of turns, back and forth and round and round, until she was sweaty and breathing heavy. I acted MEAN about it - never hit her but if she'd slow down at all I was right after her making her go faster. Finally my friend came out to the barn and asked what was going on, and after I told her she had a CTJ meeting with the horse as well. It might sound cruel but it only had to be done once and that horse never did give me any sass again after that. In fact - it seemed like she loved me more for it. I love that horse to pieces and wish my friend would sell her to me - she was a lot of fun when she was obeying, and she sure was a brat before that, but it was my fault for letting her get away with stuff for so long.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

because is a horse is bolting out of panic, when do you have this Come to Jesus meeting? after you've brought it to a stop? then you beat it? 

I had a horse bolt on me once, and after I got it to a stop and realized I was not going to die this time, out of rage I whacked it over the head , between the ears, with my riding crop. I don't think that was helpful. it was jsut me letting out the fear as anger.

I don't know if beating a horse that is in a panic helps. but, I will see what some of the more experienced riders and trainer say.


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## fffarmergirl (Nov 21, 2012)

Yeah - I guess going after her once she stopped would be counter productive, wouldn't it. And doing it while she was still on her back would be hard to do..... unless she just forced her to keep running and refused to let her stop. I would be afraid to do that, myself, but I think that's what I'd do if I was a better rider. It would be different if the horse was actually panicking but it sounds like the bolting has become a habit.

I don't think beating is the answer in any way. There doesn't have to be any physical contact involved. And like I said -I'm a beginner. Just wondering how I might handle it myself if it ever happens to me - deliberate bolting. Hopefully I've learned my lesson about letting a horse walk all over me and it will never happen.

Most of the horse people I know start lunging/round penning horses really frequently when they start misbehaving and it seems to work for them. Not aggressive lunging like you would do immediately after being thrown, but just showing the horse who's boss by making it move it's feet and obey.


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## mrwithers (Jun 25, 2014)

Glad you made the decision to get a new horse. This mare sounds like a risk to your safety


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I am in no way in a million years going to act aggressively to her or beat her up why would I want to do that. It might sometimes be a habit but most of the times she only reacts when she sees certain scary things and talking to the old owner more its not a surprise she is acting how she is. She has gone from being lead down one lane with loads of horses to me who has hacked her out on a road with no other horses and she is not being lead she is just out of her comfort zone


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

So hard to tell from a few clips and not being there to actually 'feel' the horse.

But I just see a horse that is not paying attention to you. I don't get the feeling that she is actually bolting.

She looks like she is just off in lala land then she gets bored and decides to spice things up.

One rein stop IMO is a necessity. Works like a charm. I did have a horse once that thought he would lock up his neck and not bend like he was supposed to. My foot came up and clobbered him on the opposite side of where he was supposed to turn. Last time he tried that.

Cheri had some great info on here about keeping the horses attention on the rider and other helpful ideas.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

For a starter, this horse is *not* bolting. Bolting is when a horse runs off at a gallop and is totally blind as to where it is running. 
In all the years I have been riding I have only ever been bolted with once. Run away with numerous times but not bolted with. 

This horse is just taking advantage of a novice rider who has, understandably, become frightened by her actions and is now apprehensive which will effect the horse more.

I would ride her more forward going out. When she went to spin around, she would see my dressage whip pointing forward, my left rein would be short and I would haul her hard back to the left. As soon as she was pointing in the right direction I would drive her forward with my legs and whip behind my leg. 
She might well put in a buck or two just to see if she could frighten me but when that too was punished she would soon give in. 

The fact she is use to just following another horse does not mean she cannot be taught to go on her own. She is not a bad horse, just one that has got into a bad habit which no one is prepared to break.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

When do you say enough is enough every time I take her out now she is running off she is going to hurt herself I cannot have her running in traffic. I know she is not bad horse and after what her old owners have said she has also napped and ran off since day one even when she a lot younger. When she gets scared she does just run blind so goes into a gallop and I cannot stop her at all she just runs and will not stop for people she will just run in to them and cars she just runs into them


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I am not trying to be nasty or put you down at all. This mare is to much for you and I can understand why you are frightened of roding her. 

I will also say she is not frightened, she is just using things as an excuse and has done all her life from the sounds of it,

Cherie has a very wise saying, 'The worse behaviour you allow is the best behaviour you can expect.' This is very true and she has behaved this way for many a year.

If you are going to retire her and are going to get another horse, I suggest that you take an experienced person with you to test the horse thoroughly before you buy it. Take as many lessons as you can afford, ride multiple different horses and learn how to deal with all sorts of situations or you will find any new horse you get will soon be taking advantage of you. 

What area are you in the UK?


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

I don't know what napping means but I would NOT take this horse anywhere near a road. You know what she's like and that is NOT safe for a road. 

I would get a professional trainer to work with her and see if they can correct her, then I'd get someone to help you learn what to do and to make sure she respects you.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I am not a complete novice but i am no expert when I first got sian I was really confidence I loved going out jumping and having loads of fun. Now I am just the complete opposite even thinking about going out now makes me feel scared. She is really too much for me but I brought her as a safe school mistress that hacked out and was bombproof I would never off brought her if I had of known. I have enough money for another horse and there is a stable waiting but I am not sure if I really want another horse or not my heart is saying yes but my head is saying don't do it what If I cause the horse to nap or run off. If I am honest I will prop end up just giving up riding as sian has trashed my confidence so much so that I am not sure even the most safe horse would make me feel confident. I will defo take my instructor with me if I were to get another horse as I would want to make sure the horse was the right one for sure. I am in Wales in the uk  

She is not hacked on the road anymore I stopped that as I don't want her hurting some else or getting hurt her self. She Is now ridden in the woods were there are no cars just some walkers.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I agree with some of the other comments, she is running away with you. She needs worked in an a controlled area, arena or round pen , and she needs to learn how to stop. 
You need to get a good trainer.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I haven't real all the responses. From what I see in the videos, you are setting yourself up for failure. Taking a horse who you acknowledge is not listening to you, putting her on a narrow straight road where you have nowhere to circle or even put her into a bend, and surround her with high hedges full of sounds without being able to see beyond them would make most horses spooky. In the videos, her ears are pricked listening for anything to spook at, and her head is up in the clouds doing the same. Her attention is not on you at all. 

She is not bolting. She is making decisions for herself since the person on top of her (you) is not making those decisions for her. You need to transition from a passenger to an effective rider. I did not read if you have access to a ring or not. Even if these road are all you have to work with, you need to engage her mind and get it focused on you. 

Start with transitions. To start just work at walk and trot. Do tons and tons of walk/trot transitions making sure that she is doing them when you ask, not when she wants to. Add in some halt transitions. Never go more than 8 strides before doing something different. You will know you have her attention once she starts putting one ear back to you. 

Learn and teach her the one rein stop or at least shoulder-in, anything that disengages her hind end so she is not dead straight. Straight is a position of power for her, disengaged hind-end puts you in charge. She needs to learn that, whenever you disengage her, she is to stop, no exceptions. In the video where she turned around and ran off with you, there was at least 3 seconds where you could have used the one rein stop to keep here there instead of run off. 

Like other have said, she should never be allowed to turn around completely. Always bring her back the way she tried to turn. I still don't get why horses consider that a victory, but if they are allowed to make that full circle, they just get more worked up. When you bring them back from where they turned, it takes the steam out of them. They seem surprised that they are back where they started. 

Please do not canter or gallop her again until you have this under control. You are way too young to be having back problems. All of your current problems are easily fixed with good riding. You can do this without getting hurt.


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## dlady (Apr 13, 2013)

I don't know how long you have had this instructor, but If you've had him/her for awhile, I wouldn't trust their judgement in helping me pick out a horse if they can't teach me how to control an unruly horse. My instructor put me in many different situations, under her guidance at all times, to make sure I could handle just about any situation that might arise. 

Learning to do a ORS starts on the ground. It's part of your ground school lesson. You have to know how to flex an horse, take control of their head in order to do a 1 reign stop. If you can't flex on the ground, you most certainly won't be able to take control of them while on their back. 

Every lesson that I take start off with ground work. Not because it's necessary for the horse, but it's part of a learning process that I requested when I 1st started taking lessons. My lessons are not always at the stable or in an arena. She knew I would mostly be doing trail riding, so we go on trail rides, over fallen branches, through puddles, ect. As with any instructor, if there is something that you feel you need to learn, communication is the best ticked to success you can get with a very knowledgeable instructor. Ask ?s, watch videos on yutube, get some kind of idea as to what you want to do and what you need to learn then discuss them with your instructor and make sure she include them in your lesson.

I feel that if you take some lessons, both on the ground and riding to build up your confidence, you'll be more than ready for your next horse. IMO, you didn't ruin your horse, you just lost your confidence. In time you will get it back. I know I did after I had my 1st fall.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am so sorry that your confidence is taking such a blow that you think it will never come up. 

I suggest you sell that horse. it's not that all of this is her fault, but it doesn't matter whose fault it is, , she is just too much of a problem for you. and being scared when you ride out is not fun. I would be terrified to be on a horse galloping down a concrete road. sounds like a recipe for painful disaster, or even death.

But, don't give up on riding. finding a horse that better fits you will make such a difference.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

I cannot sell her as she is 20 years old and has bone spavin which is under treatment so it would not really be fair to sell her. I don't canter or gallop at the moment we only do walk and trot. We do have a ménage but it has not got a fence or a gate so she just try's to run out. I have lessons for 2 years and she got really good in the ménage but we had to stop as I could not safely get to the ménage as you had to go on the roads to get to it. My instructor is really good and is a very experienced rider she has tried her and she can control her in the ménage but does not feel safe on her and she stopped the lessons as she was worried that I was going to get injured coming to the ménage for the lessons. I also was terrified about going on the roads with her and with my confidence I just feel like I have ruined her. You are right I am 19 and my back is bad as I have damaged all the nerves in my back so my whole back is numb and I cannot lean back on it or sit up. She did run off yesterday and I did get her to stop just giving and taking the reins. Thankyou for all the advice


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I joined this thread on page 6, so the disclaimer to my post is I'm not familiar with /everything/ that has been said. But...

Why don't you pay for some full time training? Let your trainer (or another) work with her on a daily basis. Such arrangements often include one or two lessons per week--you can negotiate more when you feel comfortable.
Also, why not stick to arena work for a while to get your confidence up? If she does bolt (or gets out of control, however you want to call it), there is no where for her to go.

If neither of these are options and you're not willing to sell her, then I think your best bet is to keep her as a pasture ornament.


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

I watched some of the video and it looks like what's happening is that you're not 'riding' her enough. You're just kinda going along there like a passenger. As a result, the mare ends up making her own decisions and takes you where she wants to go. It also looks like she's evading your hand by going above the bit, which would also fit in with the running off. Everyone that's trying to tell you that you're in danger of serious injury or even losing your life is correct! I don't know how seriously you want to take that, but it may be a good idea to. It's understandable that you feel responsible for her and are attached and don't want to sell her, but what can you do? 

The good news is that she's a good natured horse, which is obvious from the fact that she lets you ride her instead of just bucking you off or something. So it could be worse. But you can't just be a passenger, you HAVE to ride actively. Do you know any dressage, any lateral suppling exercises? In the menage, can you take her from a walk to canter and back down to a stop without having to pull on the reins? Can you rein back, leg yeild, shoulder in? What about the pulley rein? The old masters (and the modern ones too) say that the way to get control of the horse is through the suppling exercises. When she's supple, she'll also be responsive and attentive. Then it's just a matter of reminding her when you're outside by regaining her attention through the same exercises, every time you even smell that she might be getting worried and losing track of her rider. You've got to be there BEFORE, and not as a reaction after the fact. Of course you need impulsion first, which you have. So you've got a start on it. But start asking yourself the question constantly "what do I not know? ". It's knowledge that's going to get you there and to a great extent that means forgetting the idea that you're fairly experienced already and being able to listen (but to the right people). Take what we say for what it's worth, but seek out the best teachers you can find. In person is the best, but don't let anyone tell you that books and videos aren't valuable too! They are a great way to gain insight into the minds and experience of the top horsemen who've ever lived and that definitely has a place in your education. But for the time being, I wouldn't ride this horse outdoors. I would commit at least two months to working on some of these skills I talked about. At the same time I would take her on hand walks outdoors. Ride in the menage, go for a stroll outside (and walk to and from the menage). 

If you can cope with peoples strange looks. 

I wish you luck!


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

Thanks for the advice I have walked her out in hand before and she is ok but will still run off. She is a great horse but I am not sure my riding is so bad that other horses would try to buck me off but I might be wrong. I am just going to keep trying with her I am riding her tomorrow in the woods again and this time I will ride more actively


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

cleohorse said:


> Thanks for the advice I have walked her out in hand before and she is ok but will still run off. She is a great horse but I am not sure my riding is so bad that other horses would try to buck me off but I might be wrong. I am just going to keep trying with her I am riding her tomorrow in the woods again and this time I will ride more actively


 You're like Evel Knievel I swear LOL! I admire your pluck though. But I probably gave you too much info anyway. Forget all that stuff and just try this one thing: tomorrow every single time you 1. stop your horse, or 2. she starts to go faster than what you want, take one step backward ten times. Not ten steps in a row, I mean one step, release, pause, one step until you get to ten. Practice in walk first so that you build that response into her muscle memory, and it should be there when things speed up.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

Oh, I like that idea. I'd stick as close to home as possible for a while, while working on Ian's suggestion, too, though.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

She was as good as gold yesterday we went all the way around the woods and was out for around a hour and she did not misbehaviour once


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

She is not reliable. Either retire her or put her down. Stop riding her. I kept my old horses until their death bc they were very safe around anyone into their 20's and their deaths.


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## cleohorse (Jun 10, 2014)

The thing is if I stop riding her she goes down hill she needs working because of her legs and she just not happy not being ridden. I would not pts as she still has a lot of life in her yet. 2 years ago she was so good and did not run off at all she only started running again when I fell off  I am just hoping that I can get her back to how she was if that all fails then I will retire her but that is the very last resort


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