# Mare infection! I need help asap!Update: Mare is fine! baby too.



## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

K so my mare just had her baby on Friday. I wasn't there for the birth. Well, I was checking both mama and baby and I am 98% sure mama has an infection because she didn't expel all of her placenta. Vet clinic is closed, and I can't afford to call him over. We have oxytocin in the fridge at the stable for emergencies, however it is frozen. I will be giving it to her tomorrow morning, but I need help and info first. 

1. How many cc's should I give her? I'm guessing she weighs about 850-100 lbs
2. What size needle should I use?
3. Should I give it in her butt or neck? Or neither? Does it matter?
4. What should I be looking for?

Please help because I am freaking out. My dad sold my pickup from under me so it takes a while to arrange transport to the vet. Using the oxytocin is my first option, and if it doesn't work I will take her to the vet. But I don't know much about it, or the whole birth thing in general. Please help because I have no clue what to do. I work at a hospital, so I know what an infection looks and smells like, also there are two other people at the stable who looked at her and do agree that she is starting to get an infection. Hunny takes shots well, so I am not worried about that, I'm just worried about what to look for. How do I know if she got it out? Thanks help is appreciated a lot


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

If she is infected, the time for using Oxy to cause expulsion is long past. The long and sort of it is that the mare needs to be seen, properly diagnosed and treated with more than oxy.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

If she has an infection she will need more than just oxytocin. JMHO. I am sorry, but I would be calling the vet. I would not risk my mare's life.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vet...ASAP.

If she isn't seen, she could die, and so can baby.

Side Note: Can the infection spread into the milk of mom and pass into foal?


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

You're going to be lucky if you HAVE a live horse to haul to the Vet. Waiting around or fooling around with hopeful home remedies is a really bad idea.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Not expelling the placenta with in hours of the birth is considered a dire emergency......get your horse and foal to a vet ASAP

If she has an infection she her uterus will need flushing with antibiotics and saline.....this will need to be done by a vet.

Super Nova


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

She doesn't have a fever at this point, she is acting normal and energetic, and I do not have the vets number, not to mention the transportation to get her to the vet at this time. One of the ladies I spoke to has foaled out a lot of mares and I trust her opinion. I am calling the vet as soon as they open tomorrow to arrange an appointment, but since calling them is pointless at this point in time because all I will get is an answering machine, I have to wait. It is going to be to cold tonight to give her oxytocin for fear of her getting too sweaty and cold and developing pneumonia. The barn is not insulated so sticking her in there only protects from the elements, not the temperature. All I can do at this point in time is either wait, or give her the oxytocin and see if it helps. The ladies at the stable that used to work at a breeding ranch agree that yes, she didn't pass all of it, but they do think that using the oxytocin first may get it out. Either way I'm calling the vet, but if there is a chance of her passing it before getting her to the vet for a for sure check I am going to try it.

Edit: the stable doesn't have a chute for the vet to do a house call, unless we used the vet clinic next door and I do not think they would be super happy about that.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

So there is a vet next door who has a chute, but you are not using them? Are they not equine? I would ask! Perhaps they would charge you , but with the price of gas, it may be a wash, and much less trauma for mama.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

They are not equine, the only large animal they treat is cows. All they do for horses is coggins test and shots, but they really are as helpful as going to a small animal vet when it comes to horse care. The main problem is the time, the fact that my paycheck isn't here til Friday, and I don't have the vet's on call number. The people at the stable who deal with horse birth frequently are sure that oxytocin will get it out, so for the sake of the fact that I am going to try everything, she is getting it tomorrow. So back to my questions, How much do I give her, and what size needle? I have school from 8am-1pm tomorrow with no breaks in-between, and I am not just letting her sit that time without something maybe happening. So I am giving it to her tomorrow, I just have questions about it. Telling me to take her to the vet isn't really helping at this point, I know she needs to go to the vet and she will go, but I can't skip school without getting my butt handed to me on a silver platter by my academic advisor, my mother, and my teachers. If she gets it out with the oxytocin good for her, but she is still going to the vet regardless.


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

I hope you realize that vets normally (especially in an emergency) don't expect you to pay NOW! They treat your horse and send the bill. It's your choice either call the vet or be prepared to quite possibly lose your horse altogether.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

cowgirl928 said:


> So back to my questions, How much do I give her, and what size needle?


NONE of us are a VET and therefore we do not know.

You need a VET, not a horse breeder, not a friend, not a neighbor, not a barn owner, not a mortal enemy, A VET!!!

Don't know the number? GOOGLE IT! Don't have a chute, well woop de do, neither do I and the only time my Vet said I *had* to have one was when I wanted a wild cow treated. No transportation? No problem, Vets make house calls!

If your Vet doesn't do emergencies, get on the internet and find one that does. Not having the number of a Vet that is available 24hrs is highly irresponsible for a regular horse owner, downright INSANE for an owner of a bred mare.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe the people at the barn that are experienced in horse's foaling will be able to help you with the correct dosage?

Doesn't someone at the barn have the on-call number to a vet so you can at least get advice from a professional if the oxytocin will even work or if you'll cause an unnecessary reaction that may create more problems then actually be beneficial?

Are you going to give it to her tomorrow after school or before school? If it's before school, is someone there to watch her to make sure she is going to be okay since you can't skip?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

No one is answering your questions because the questions are completely irrelevant at this point *head, desk*


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Maybe the people at the barn that are experienced in horse's foaling will be able to help you with the correct dosage?
> 
> Doesn't someone at the barn have the on-call number to a vet so you can at least get advice from a professional if the oxytocin will even work or if you'll cause an unnecessary reaction that may create more problems then actually be beneficial?
> 
> *Are you going to give it to her tomorrow after school or before school? If it's before school, is someone there to watch her to make sure she is going to be okay since you can't skip?*


That was my question exactly. I am sorry OP, but it is not like this was something that happened overnight. Your mare was bred and pregnant for a while. I am of the opinion that people who own horses should have a plan, a relationship with a vet, and the $$ to help them in case of emergency. 

I am beyond frustrated with people who have wonderful mares who are bred, and then have no $$ to care for them. Probably because there are at least 2 on here tonite.

OP-it is extremely frustrating to sit on this end of a computer, hear people calling for help and feel totally helpless, especially when you know it is an emergency and the horse needs a vet. You cannot tell me that you just realized after clinic hours that this was a possibility. You should have called the vet DURING hours and let him know what was going on and asked HIM what to do for the night.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeahh delfina I didn't know she was bred until 7 weeks before she had the baby. It is not irresponsibility, it was a seller that said she couldn't have been bred. I didn't want this baby, I don't need this baby, and am now suffering the consequences of an ignorant person. Please don't call me insane or ignorant, it is impolite, rude, mean, and if you are going to sit at your computer and type yell at me please just stop talking to me. It would be greatly appreciated. 

Yes, CLaPorter, someone would be there to watch her. Unfortunately, no one has the vet number besides the office number. We only have one horse vet in our area that is good and trusted. 

Please don't attack me, I am doing my best at this point.


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

I just dont get it I really dont. If emergencies like this could be done online Vets would never leave home. Don't have money for vet call or even a number handy incase of emergencies such as this is down right foolish and iresponsible horse owner. If you were not there for the birth of the foal and felt that some of the after birth was left behind and its been a week. why didnt you call the vet sooner then a week later.
Well I hope the mare will be okay and the foal. Good luck.
TRR


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## Poco1220 (Apr 6, 2010)

If you didn't know the mare was bred then you DEFINITELY should have had a vet out within hours of the foals birth to check the mare an foal since neither received proper prenatal care. A vet would have checked for incomplete afterbirth at that time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thank you Poco. I am speaking with area stable owners to get vet on call number.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

^^ I knew you could figure it out if you tried.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Oh lookie here.......

http://www.ndvma.com/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={B3EF91A4-D294-48D6-B89C-90143655DC99}

Amazing how many vets in North Dakota there are. I am SURE one of them will be able to assist you.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

Called the vet told him everything, he said we will get her in tomorrow for a flush to check, and if things are going wrong she will get antibiotics. 

lol franknbeans that made me chuckle. 

But she is getting in tomorrow and when I explained to him what it looked like he said that it may be just her normal discharge still, but we will check anyways.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Ok first why do you think she retained her placenta? Second do you have any penicillin, if so give her 1 cc per 100 lbs in the neck or thigh. make sure you pull the plunger out some to make sure there is no blood coming into the syringe if there is move the needle if you get penicillin in the vein she will die. I use 18 gauge needles 1 1/2 inches long. Horses do have discharge after foaling.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

Delfina out of that list, there is only 1 equine vet in my area. I called him already. He is the only vet in the area that people here trust.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

cmarie I am just worried because her discharge was barely noticeable and all of a sudden it is gooey and red/orange and has an odd smell to it. I work at a hospital so I know the nasty infection smell, it isn't that bad, but it is slightly there which is why I am worried. The vet said that it is probably just her discharge, but he is getting her in to check anyways.

Edit: i will check for penicillin. That is the first thing I thought of and said to people when I saw it. I will check for a needle and syringe, because we almost always have penicillin on hand, but needles and syringes I do not know about our stock at the stable. An 18g is big enough for a horse?! ...wow haha ok I will check!


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Yes 18 is big enough for horses you can only give 10 cc's in one injection site though. You can use bigger I just like 18 my personal preference. I like to give shots in the neck, I slap them 3 times then shoot them.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

I'm always scared I'm going to hit something in the neck so I usually shoot for the hind end. We don't have any needles there that are stable owned, only needles that are labeled. I will have to update my emergency meds kit by adding needles and syringes of all shapes and sizes. 

Since the vet said it is probably just more discharge I am not as worried and freaking out as I was. I won't give her the oxytocin tomorrow morning, since he said to just wait til I get her in there in the afternoon. She was fine when I drove down to check out the needles, syringe, and penicillin situation. She wanted more food actually...typical isn't it? I checked her temp again and it was normal, so no worries there. I checked her vulva region and wiped it off with a clean, warm water paper towel. It was the good paper towels that are like washcloth usefulness so no worries about little flakes of paper around her hoo-ha. I gave her some hay to nibble at and let her and her baby be for the night. I'll be out there in less then 8 hours to feed tomorrow morning. I need sleep now, morning is going to hit in 5 and a half hours and tomorrow is not going to be a short day...

Thank you cmarie for help. I don't know what normal discharge is supposed to look like...so for all I know it could be normal, and she could just still be sore. Why is this birthing thing so dang complicated? Is it really that difficult for a seller to say "oh hey I'm pretty sure she is pregnant so you should monitor her or I will have her checked to get a positive answer or not." This whole baby debacle is ridiculous.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I would not be giving shots to the mare without checking with the vet, even antibiotics can have effects on the foal through the blood stream. Diagnosing over the internet and suggesting penicillan for a nursing mare is probably not the best idea, especially if the vet did not suggest antibiotics until he looks at her. You do not want to give antibiotics that will pass into the milk if at all possible, remember, everything that you give the mare goes to the baby. 
As far as the oxytocin, it will make the uterus contract, however, if it is closed, then the uterus will rupture from the oxyitocin.... Plus, if the contractions get bad, the mare might roll and do damage to herself or her foal


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

cowgirl928 said:


> K so my mare just had her baby on Friday. I wasn't there for the birth. Well, I was checking both mama and baby and I am 98% sure mama has an infection because she didn't expel all of her placenta.
> 
> Using the oxytocin is my first option, and if it doesn't work I will take her to the vet. But I don't know much about it, or the whole birth thing in general. I work at a hospital, so I know what an infection looks and smells like."


Hello...I appreciate how stressful and difficult the situation you are in is...I know literally next to nothing regarding equine maternity care. But, working as an RN in labor & delivery for humans x 6+ of my 15 year career, I know a LOT about that subject and some info MAY (?) be similar...

For example, if there IS even a tiny retained placental fragment, that is an immediate life threatening emergency for human women. However, the absolute hallmark of such is a lot of bleeding. The fragment essentially prevents the uterus from properly "clamping down", or contracting, upon itself. This is human physiology of course, however, I believe IF THERE WERE RETAINED PLACENTA, the mare would probably have bled quite a lot...(anyone?). 

My gut feeling/possible guess? A beginning infection related to a non-placental retention issue. Of course no LESS THREATNING TO HER LIFE, but genuinely not an Oxytocin-type treatable situation, since ALL that Oxy does is cause intense contraction of the uterus = expulsion of a foal or separation & then expulsion of an intact placenta in stage 4 of labor. Oxy is not used to expel placental FRAGMENTS in humans, as the ONLY WAY TO REMOVE THEM is a curtage (scraping), after a VERY CAREFUL INITIAL PALPATION of the inner uterine wall, BY THE MD, to find the fragment, to then release the errant piece of placenta.

Infection post-partum is extremely common in humans and is life threatning. From your description, infection seems highly likely in your mare, and God willing, she is not yet so infected as to have caused her to become febrile, so hopefully the vet can discern what exactly is going on in the morning and treat her.

She is not cold, temp wise, correct? Too low a temp CAN BE at times much more dangerous and thus worse than a fever, as it can point to shock. Thus, is her temp NORMAL?

Is she eating and drinking and moving about normally? What is her interest level in caring for her foal at this time, as all are good indicators of where she now is, health-wise.

Though obviously I know I likely did nothing to help you out with the ACTUAL situation, I DO REALLY HOPE I "may" have been able to offer SOME piece of mind, or things to think on while waiting to see the vet tomorrow?

I wish you the absolute most luck possible, and will pray for your mare and foal and for you tonight. Take care of yourself so you can be there for mom and baby...


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

I have no advice but I hope your mare will be ok and wish you good luck with her!! :smile:


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Well WG penicillin is safer for the foal than many of the sulfa based antibiotics out there, yes it does pass through the milk, as do many other antibiotics that are more harmful to the foal, such as tetracycline base drugs which can cause problems with the teeth and tendons. No matter what antibiotic is given the mare and foal should be given probiotics after the meds are completed to replenish the flora in the gut. The foal was born a few days ago and in all likelihood it is just postpartum discharge. I give my mares penicillin for 3 days if they had a rough delivery or rip a little, with no ill effects to the foal. I have found no studies that say that it does cause harm to nursing foals or pregnant mares.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

NEVER tell somebody to start giving drugs like penicillin over the internet. It is so incredibly dangerous. 

As for the OP, I am once again gobsmacked that people think it is even remotely appropriate to come to the internet when a situation so obviously calls for a vet. Make all the excuses you like, it doesn't change the fact that you made an irresponsible choice regarding the health of both mare and foal. 

As for the vet coming out tomorrow? I would be insisting that somebody came now. If she has retained any part of the placenta you are in the midst of an emergency.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

CMarie-you are exactly the kind of "antibiotics for everything" type of person who has helped us get many of the resistant strains we have today. They are not the answer to everything and should NOT be given "just because". I would NOT give them without a vet. I bet you do rotational worming too and with no fecals......just guessing. :-/


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm stuck on a really basic question -

Did anyone check the placenta after the mare delivered? This is pretty much Foaling 101; you lay the placenta out on the floor or the stall and check for missing pieces or if it's incomplete; since the is a foal shaped bag turned inside out, a missing piece is pretty obvious if you lay the thing out. 

Do not give penicillin. In addition to all the other reasons given, it's highly unlikely that penicllin will be effective in treating a uterine infection; uterine infections are usually in the spectrum that penicilln is not effective against. But most important, giving penicillin know will ruin any chance of a vet being able to culture the infection and prescribe an effective antibiotic. Giving penicillin now will actually make the horse more difficult to treat down the road. 

Whether or not this mare has a retained placenta, if you suspect uterine infection from whatever source, it is a legitimate veterinary emergency. 

I have never heard of a vet insisting on a palpation chute for an exam unless the mare is wild and uncontrollable. You can examine a mare by backing her up to a stall door and having the vet work over the stall door.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Maura - on the chute thing - The vets here insist on it for safety reasons (for both horse and vet) unless they _know_ your horse and how it will react due to previous interactions.


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

OP>I hope your mare and foal make it through this. May I suggest something..as an older person who has had horses for many years on a budget?
I have an emergency vet fund. It has 800.00 in it. 
I do not spend it for anything else, and you don't have to start with that much.
Just put twenty bucks from each check away and don't spend it.


Sorry if this is off topic. Susan


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Just a few facts needed here:

First, Oxytocin can be given about any time. We use it day before breeding if a mare's uterus is a little big or we have been treating for an infection. It causes uterine contractions and helps expel fluids and shrinks the uterus, even in non-foaling mares. It is appropriate to give in this situation.

Second, Founder is your biggest possible problem if she did, indeed, retain part of her placenta. Founder following a retained placenta is usually a very catastrophic founder. The hotter the weather, the faster this happens.

If she did retain part of her placenta, she will probably have drainage and a discharge by now. 

Thirdly, Antibiotics like Penicillin are pretty useless. To deal with a uterine infection from a retained placenta, the antibiotics need to be infused with a large volume of saline solution directly into the uterus. Shots are useless.

Most big breeding farms are set up to do all of these things 'in house'. Otherwise, you need to get mare to an equine Vet or have him meet you at a breeding farm. 

All breeding farms have stocks. We let other people use ours and let other Vets come here to doctor their horses. Most breeding farms will let you do this.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Cmarie, I know that penicillian is one of the better antibiotics, BUT, how do YOU know the foal won't have a reaction? How do You know how much to give a mare you have never seen? 
I have been working for vets for so many years, I see reality of what happens when something is given without careful thought. YOU are basically giving a diagnosis and treatment plan over the internet, to an owner with a mare and foal that you have never seen.
Cherie, you are right about the Oxytocin, I have it on hand for breeding dogs.However, I was just suggesting that the OP should not be giving a shot like this over the internet diagnosis and amount to give her mare without being knowledgeable about what happens and the things that can happen.You have been breeding/foaling for years and have experience to know what to do and when to do it and how much to do. The OP does not, she is just going on bits of information she is getting from others.
We know she is totally new about foals and breeding, so jumping in and giving antibiotics and Oxytocin willy nilly is not something I would suggest.
However its not my mare and foal.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

People giving antibiotic willy nilly, wrong doses or incomplete courses of antibiotics are the sole reason we have the Super bugs like MRSA!!!

I far prefer the system over here where only a vet is allowed to give any antibiotics to horses and they have to be prescribed for a perticular horse. You cannot just keep a bottle in your fridge/freezer just in case.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

There are some people starting to question giving antibiotics to mares and dogs that are nursing are causing issues to the babies with allergies and weaker immune systems...


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Firstly why are you 98 percent sure she retained placenta? Was there placenta protruding from vulva after she had cleaned? My thought is that 6 days in if she had retained even a very small amount of placenta she would have a great deal of discomfort, some fever, increased heart rate etc. Is it possible she has a small tear from foaling and therefor some discharge which may smell rancid and require treatment? In either case I do agree with Cherie. I am just not sure you know what you are looking at?
A mare who has retained placenta should be treated right away, posthaste because it can cause complications for future breeding. The longer you wait the less chance the mare will have of producing a foal again if she has retained placenta.
To anyone who has no foaling experience, have a vet out immediately after your mare foals to avoid problems. It will save you alot of money in the long run. The cost of caring for a mare that has gone septic vs a simple vet call at the time of birth that would include a shot to help the mare expell her afterbirth is huge.
To the OP...if you have someone who has stated your mare has retained afterbirth and they are truly well versed in horses, they would have also stressed the importance of calling a vet immediately (at time of foaling)..... within 3 hours a mare should clean or it should be considered an emergency. Im glad you have a vet coming out now and I hope it all works out and your mare is fine.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

cmarie said:


> Ok first why do you think she retained her placenta? Second do you have any penicillin, if so give her 1 cc per 100 lbs in the neck or thigh. make sure you pull the plunger out some to make sure there is no blood coming into the syringe if there is move the needle if you get penicillin in the vein she will die. I use 18 gauge needles 1 1/2 inches long. Horses do have discharge after foaling.


That is the NOT dosage calculation PenG.

Until the vet has confirmed an infection, do not give the mare anything. There are two lives to consider at this point - mare and foal.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

maura said:


> I'm stuck on a really basic question -
> 
> Did anyone check the placenta after the mare delivered? This is pretty much Foaling 101; you lay the placenta out on the floor or the stall and check for missing pieces or if it's incomplete; since the is a foal shaped bag turned inside out, a missing piece is pretty obvious if you lay the thing out.


That was my question too! With all of the experienced 'ladies' at her barn.

If the mare foaled with out assistance, she could of starting eating the palcenta too and that could explain missing pieces.


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

Dogs can run off with the placenta as well. 

As an RN that used to work in labor and delivery as well (saw another nurse post on here) I can agree that retention of placenta causes massive bleeding (which I also dealt with myself after my child was born). It has to be manually extracted. 

I guess I just don't understand why anyone who thinks that there is a potential life threatening issue would go to a forum for advice instead of calling a vet. I don't have a chute at my place for the horses but my vet cares for them just fine. Not to be mean, but if you can't afford to have a vet care for your animals, perhaps you shouldn't have the animals. Just my opinion.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I've had horses many years & have never had one in a chute.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I hope that this thread makes people think about their plans for their own emergencies.

I simply shudder to think that anyone could foal out a mare without having a vet on speed dial. The time to build up a working relationship with your vet is before the birth, not when the problem happens.

We have no chute, but we do have walls, gates, stalls, we make things work.

I have no money, but I do pay my vet a set amount each month, and I'm currently in credit, if we have an emergency I phone him, he comes, we work out payments later.

Vet care 101, waiting and seeing often costs a lot more than CALL THE VET NOW, both in cash terms but also for the sake of the animals involved.

I wish you and your mare all the best and hope the vet has good news for you


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I followed this mare's foaling thread and know that this OP has done the best for this unexpected pg. She didn't ask for this, and has only known about a baby coming for a matter of a few weeks. She asked questions, learned everything she could, and is crazy about this mare and her foal.

The basic question I would have had for her last night was WHY she thinks the mare has an infection. There is no fever, no behavior change, not change in appetite. The foal is several days old. She's never experienced normal vs abnormal discharge before... so someone at the barn says "Eh, she probably has an infecton." and she came on the board to ask advise.

I'm glad that after talking to the vet and giving him the symptoms (or lack of) that he didn't feel it was emergent.

Hopefully we'll get an update this morning...


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Sorry Texas, but it doesn't take weeks to call a vet, and get an emergency contact set up. It is a bit scary to think what could have happened, and I think she is a bit lucky, at least so far, with the outcome. We all know that things notoriously happen on friday nights after the close of business or on a holiday.
I am betting (also as a nurse) that mare will be fine.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

Chutes are only needed if the mare is difficult to deal with........my mare had a difficult delivery........and my vet had to come back and flush her twice...it was done in her stall with her foal at her side ...no sedation was needed......but my mare was incredible to deal with for a maiden mare.....even my vet was impressed.

Retained placentas are considered a medical emergencies....as they can lead to laminitis and a very sick mare....... if the OP's mares had retained a large amount of placenta it is likely she would have more symptoms at this point but only a vet can say for sure......uterine infections don't usually cause mares to be sick for some reason but will likely leave her infertile for the future if not treated.

Super Nova


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

When I moved house the first thing I did was register with a vet in the area, even before my horse was transported up here.
God forbid if he had injured himself on the way up I would at least have had a vet to fix him.
Heck I did that even before finding a livery yard, the length of time to aquire a vet is a very poor excuse. It takes one 10 min phone call and about 40 seconds on google.

The mare should have been seen by a vet as soon as it was realised that she was in foal, simply beccause this mare had had no prenatal care.

I also would never ever register with a vets that didnt do emergancy calls and out of hours service (and yes I pay more for out of hours)


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Now that she has been properly beaten - lol - I'm sure she'll have a contact more handy in the future.

Everybody has been inexperienced at something .. and learned lessons from experience .. I choose to show her a little grace.

The important thing is that she talked to the vet and he should be out today. The mare was asymptomatic so she will most likely be fine.

Waiting for the update .....


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## mysticalhorse (Apr 27, 2011)

Everyone needs to take into consideration that the OP is young, is asking questions & when those questions are answered without her being bashed she promptly responds. We won't hear back till later as she previously stated she has school & that the mares appt was this afternoon. Stop bashing her!

Hope everything is alright & can't wait to find out how Hunny is doing!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mysticalhorse said:


> Everyone needs to take into consideration that the OP is young, is asking questions & when those questions are answered without her being bashed she promptly responds. We won't hear back till later as she previously stated she has school & that the mares appt was this afternoon. Stop bashing her!
> 
> Hope everything is alright & can't wait to find out how Hunny is doing!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And what you need to take into consideration that the advice that has been given, ie CALL THE VET, is the only safe advice that we can give.

The frustrations that people are expressing are heartfelt and genuine, there aren't many of us that have perfect facilities, endless pots of money, or vast knowledge about all sorts of veterinary matters, BUT when it is an emergency we all want to help, and we all know that in this case two lioes are very much at risk, and it is the responsibility of the owner to do their best for these animals, and I'm sorry but asking an online forum about doage for a drug that isn't even best indicated in this situation well ...


*SIGH* head desk, 

yeah lets just blow pretty smoke and paint butterflies and pat the child on the head and say there there, because that will make it all better...

What happened to anyone taking responsibility for their choices?

What happened to telling the truth even if it is harsh?

When did we become entitled to put animals at risk because we don't plan ahead?

I've said before, it doesn't take pots of money, hell I was broker than broke when Ace colicked, I've never seen a colic before, but I know her well enough that I knew she was sick, I'd read enough that I was pretty sure it was colic, I know my vet well enough to phone him describe the symptoms, and he knew he needed to attend.

The cost, well we dealt with that afterwards, and since then I have sold a lot of stuff, including horses, because that was a huge wake up call for me, you never know what is going to happen.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I realy don't have any sympathy for those who comprimise the welfare of thier horses through not seaking correct medical advice immediatly.

The OP Should have realised she doesnt have the knowlege required to foal a mare and called the vet. 99.9% of vets will run through what you should expect and what times the vet would expect to come out, what to look out for etc for free. This should have been done well before the mare foaled (i.e as soon as she was known to be in foal).

I have had one suprise foal, the mare was being kept on my yard prior to going onto a livery yard (not owned by me), showed no signs of pregnancy (didnt bag up, didnt have a tum, was in full ridden work and jumping the day before), walked into her stable one morning (to check waters and chuck some hay in) and found a foal looking back at me. Even though the mare looked to have foaled well without assistance, as I knew nothing about foaling mares, foals or any other conditions/complications associated with a mare giving birth I immediatly summoned the vet to get her and foaly checked out, I then called her owner to relay the news. the only way we can think she got preggers was if a colt on a previous yard jumped in with her but no one was admitting it if they knew about it (I only have geldings).


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Agree totally. Having a vet available is good practice for any of us, not just mares, foals, etc. Most barns have the numbers posted in a common area if not on each stall door. One of the barns I have mine at is large-there it is clearly posted for everyone to see. THe other barn is small-we all have the number in our phones, with emergency contact.

Same should be true of any living thing. People, dogs, whatever. I have a dog with Addisons disease and I have well established relationships with vets in a couple of states I frequent. You never know.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

She called the vet .. the situation appears to be non-emergent - the vet is coming out there today .. 

Our frustrations we are expressing about the continued berating of this poster is heartfelt and genuine also.

I think she got the point ... pages ago.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

texasgal said:


> She called the vet .. the situation appears to be non-emergent - the vet is coming out there today ..
> 
> Our frustrations we are expressing about the continued berating of this poster is heartfelt and genuine also.
> 
> I think she got the point ... pages ago.


 
Bottom line here - her subject line says Mare Infection! I need help asap!

Most of the posters are responding to that. Jumping on the internet to ask a bunch of strangers (some with totally incorrect advice) is not something anyone should do in a true emergency.

FYI to the poster who said retained placenta cause massive bleeding - not the norm at all. If the mare steps on the afterbirth and it is ripped out vs detaches on it's, then yes some bleeding can occur.. We've foaled many mares and worked at an equine hospital with full breeding and foaling unit.

In the above mentioned situation - do NOT cut the external placenta. Tie it up so the mare does not step on it and allow her to try and complete the delivery on her own. There is an ideal window but we all know horses do not read textbooks.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

This forum is supposed to be a place to support each other, give advice if possible and learn from each other. I personally see that this young lady is out of her depth because she has never experienced a mare foaling or the care after that goes along with it. It would be much more productive on here if people would stop the attacks.

She has called a vet, they are to have been there today. Did she deal with this properly? Not likely...she is new to it...Will she learn from her mistakes..Im sure she will. Does it help for everyone to bash her because she isnt doing it their way..NO...People ..please treat her with some respect and afford her the courteousy of her lack of knowledge for having foaled out a mare ...she had just bought and did not know was in foal. She WILL learn from this. 
This is the one time I dislike hearing from people who have no compassion for the girls situation, we do not know what the barn managers have been saying, and she does not know any of us personally so why should she trust anything we have to say any more than she should trust the vet who told her the mare was not in dire need of a farm call before this afternoon. I know she asked for HELP but it seems to me this is turning into nothing like HELP..


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thank you Annie. Hunny is fine, I just didn't know that mares usually ooze for 5 days after they foal. She is completely normal, healthy, and fine. Chill people, it's over. Leave me the crap alone I have no idea what I am doing with this whole foaling thing. Since this is North Dakota and most people have a "cowboy up" attitude about things, I was told to leave her and see how it goes. So I did. I posted this here because I have no idea what to expect from foaling. I thought maybe someone that does know could have just told me "oh hey they usually leak and continue to cleanse for about 5 days after they foal" or my new favorite that I thought of, "if she really did have the placenta in her and she had the baby 4 days ago already, she would be dead". So thanks for the remarks, forget me asking for help again. The bashing was appreciated, it showed me that no matter how lost someone is, there is always someone left to tear them down for their lack of knowledge about a subject. It's like when a teacher tells a student that they're stupid. Thank you for calling me stupid, it really is eye-opening to know that more then one person thinks so. Please, the next time you have a question about something because of a lack of proper knowledge about it, look in the mirror and call yourself an idiot, because it is the same thing that you did here. I don't know anything about foaling, I didn't want this baby and I was not expecting it. I am doing the best I can given the current situation.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

One must have a thick skin to post & communicate with strangers on the internet, never let someone you haven't met before upset from what they have typed, never, ever. Life is great after that.

Anyways, I just wanted to say I am so glad your Hunny & her baby are fine, looking forward to more pics of them.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

Thank you waresbear  this whole first time foaling business is a lot to digest...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sorry to disagree with you here, but no North Dakota does not have a "cowboy up" attitude about watching and seeing if a horse is alright...

I am glad that it turned out to be nothing major.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

NdAppy said:


> Sorry to disagree with you here, but no North Dakota does not have a "cowboy up" attitude about watching and seeing if a horse is alright...
> 
> I am glad that it turned out to be nothing major.


Really ND? I think it may just depend on where you are from and your background. To me, the whole riding western thing I now do is "cowboying up" to me. THere isn't a set definition, and you need to lighten up a little. Some consider that a compliment-but, as usual-glass half full, huh?


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

NDappy idk where you are in ND, but where I board and the people around here are very much along the lines of "if it isn't a life and death situation we don't go to the vet". I was raised like that with doctors too, if it isn't necessary, don't go. So that mixed with the lack of knowledge caused an unprecedented amount of backlash.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

cowgirl928 said:


> Since this is North Dakota and most people have a "cowboy up" attitude about things, I was told to leave her and see how it goes. So I did.


Apparently I missed that memo sometime in the last 20 years of my life and so did the majority of the horse owners I know. I know a lot of _people_ that have the "cowboy up" attitude about _themselves_, but their horses are expensive and fragile animals and are treated with proper care. 

And, as they say, just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean you have to too.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

cowgirl928 said:


> Leave me the crap alone I have no idea what I am doing with this whole foaling thing.



Well if you have no idea you have to ask, and when you ask you will get everything from the very rude, to the wishy washy, from correct advice to dangerous, that is the nature of free advice, it is worth exactly what you pay for it.

None of us knows who is on the other side of the screen and how they communicate.

I have had the extreme pleasure of meeting NdAppy face to face, and she is direct face to face as she is on line, a no nonsense horse lover, who has a bunch of great looking, well cared for horses. Thing is when I read her posts I know exactly what she is trying to say, and I don't think it is her fault if some get rubbed up the wrong way.

It's the internet people take the advice you like, ignore what you don't, but when it comes to it if 95% of people are saying the same thing at any one time then it probably bears listening to.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

I'm so glad they're okay!
Do you have any pictures of them?


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

mls said:


> That is the NOT dosage calculation PenG.
> 
> Until the vet has confirmed an infection, do not give the mare anything. There are two lives to consider at this point - mare and foal.


So the Veterinarian Merek Manual is incorrect, as is the dosage on the label of the bottle..that's good to know.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> CMarie-you are exactly the kind of "antibiotics for everything" type of person who has helped us get many of the resistant strains we have today. They are not the answer to everything and should NOT be given "just because". I would NOT give them without a vet. I bet you do rotational worming too and with no fecals......just guessing. :-/


No, I rarely use antibiotics unless they are needed. my worming program works just fine thank you...I'm luck I don't live in an area full of diseases, we get west nile and strangles, but that's about it around here.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I've been following this thread but don't know anything about foaling so I didn't pass an opinion. 

There are things being said now though that I can pass an opinion on. 

Firstly it's totally ok not to know things about horse care. I know less than I don't know, I think most is true of many of us. 
However you knew this was serious enough to post the topic with the title that you did. So to play innocent now, is not entirely truthful. 

Statements like this, are in part the reason why people are giving you a hard time. 



cowgirl928 said:


> I have school from 8am-1pm tomorrow with no breaks in-between, ....... but I can't skip school without getting my butt handed to me on a silver platter by my academic advisor, my mother, and my teachers.


Having an animal is much like having a child. Their medical care and urgent needs cannot wait until it is a good time for you. You need to be able to sacrifice your life as you took on the commitment. 
In this statement about school, it totally sounded that the effects on your life were more serious than the effects on your mares 'life' literally her life.


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## chandra1313 (Jul 12, 2011)

cowgirl928 said:


> Thank you Annie. Hunny is fine, I just didn't know that mares usually ooze for 5 days after they foal. She is completely normal, healthy, and fine. Chill people, it's over. Leave me the crap alone I have no idea what I am doing with this whole foaling thing. Since this is North Dakota and most people have a "cowboy up" attitude about things, I was told to leave her and see how it goes. So I did. I posted this here because I have no idea what to expect from foaling. I thought maybe someone that does know could have just told me "oh hey they usually leak and continue to cleanse for about 5 days after they foal" or my new favorite that I thought of, "if she really did have the placenta in her and she had the baby 4 days ago already, she would be dead". So thanks for the remarks, forget me asking for help again. The bashing was appreciated, it showed me that no matter how lost someone is, there is always someone left to tear them down for their lack of knowledge about a subject. It's like when a teacher tells a student that they're stupid. Thank you for calling me stupid, it really is eye-opening to know that more then one person thinks so. Please, the next time you have a question about something because of a lack of proper knowledge about it, look in the mirror and call yourself an idiot, because it is the same thing that you did here. I don't know anything about foaling, I didn't want this baby and I was not expecting it. I am doing the best I can given the current situation.


Hi Cowgirl, I feel your pain about how everyone was reacting. I wanted to say call the vet myself, but I didn't. My sheep who gave birth died about a week after her lamb birthed and we thought everything was alright, my husband is a vet tech although newly graduated. He thinks she died of septic from maybe not passing her placenta. I also know I tend to think of calling a vet all the time and so many times the vet gives off the attitude of its no big deal give them this and I feel kind of like I'm overeacting.
It is strange everyone gives advice on here but when someone ask for it, or is looking for that assurance from someone who might have been through it, to get them through until they do get ahold of a vet, its not forthcoming. 
I'm so glad your mare is alright.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't know anything about foaling. I learned two main things from this thread; If you have pregnant mare, plan ahead for everything, learn everything that might happen and what is normal. Ahead of time.

2. Keep an emergency vet fund. IF you cannot manage one, you should probably not have an animal like a horse.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

cmarie said:


> So the Veterinarian Merek Manual is incorrect, as is the dosage on the label of the bottle..that's good to know.


There is a reason vets go to school and do not just read out of a book or off a bottle. :?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

cmarie said:


> No, I rarely use antibiotics unless they are needed. my worming program works just fine thank you...I'm luck I don't live in an area full of diseases, we get west nile and strangles, but that's about it around here.


Yet you felt you could make an adequate "assessment" over the internet, without any knowledge of vitals or actually SEEING the horse, that they were needed. Hmm. :think:
Let me know when your area catches up to what most vets are now recommending for deworming-which is fecals with twice yearly worming. You will be amazed how little dewormer is actually needed. But-someone has to eke those companies in business!:thumbsup:


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Glad Hunny is ok!! (((Hugs))).


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I really doubt if this area will ever catch up to the rest of the world, it's still pretty backwards here. There only one equine vet hospital in a 400 mile radius, 2 vets that will do "field surgeries", and I haven't had any that ask to do fecal testing for worms, I don't worm every 2 months I do it 3 times a year, after the first hard freeze, after it quits freezing, and mid summer, we don't get the bot fly's in this area. 

As far as tell the OP to use penicillin for the infection, I went through that with a mare last year, that's was I was told to do by my vet, because he couldn't get out until the next day to flush her out. Perhaps I should have qualified that in my post. 

As far as getting information from books that's were the vets get it during school.

And I believe I was right on when I told the OP it was postpartum discharge.

As far as a reaction to antibiotics the vet doesn't know either if there will be a reaction, until the meds are given. Granted most people don't keep epinephrin in their med box in case of a reaction, but I do because I have a horse allergic to bees.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> 2. Keep an emergency vet fund. IF you cannot manage one, you should probably not have an animal like a horse.


Depending on life I have anywhere from $400 to $1000 saved. That is the pets emergency find period, 3 cats, 2 dogs, 1 horse. However I have a fairly good relationship with my vets and I feel ok enough that even when it is at it's lowest they would come to an arrangement with me. 

I would be totally in a mess if my regular vets were not available that day though. Especially my horse vet as I have only used one in the US.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

cmarie said:


> I really doubt if this area will ever catch up to the rest of the world, it's still pretty backwards here. There only one equine vet hospital in a 400 mile radius, 2 vets that will do "field surgeries", and I haven't had any that ask to do fecal testing for worms, I don't worm every 2 months I do it 3 times a year, after the first hard freeze, after it quits freezing, and mid summer, we don't get the bot fly's in this area.
> 
> As far as tell the OP to use penicillin for the infection, I went through that with a mare last year, that's was I was told to do by my vet, because he couldn't get out until the next day to flush her out. Perhaps I should have qualified that in my post. *Probably that would have been good information rather and making it fact.*
> 
> ...


*No, you are right. Noone can predict that. However, I bet your little epi pen wouldn't do much on a 1000# horse. Nor do I even know if you can give a horse epi. I am human trained and smart enough to know that just because WE can take it doesn't mean they can. For all I know it may kill them. THat is why there are vets and doctors. Different education for different species.*

I will not give any of my animals ANYTHING without being told by a VET that I can. Period. If is much safer that way, and I treasure the lives of my animals.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

I keep an emergency amount of money around all the time, but that was recently used for some human expenses that were serious emergency status of the health nature. The vet here is just going to bill me because I get paid soon, and then my emergency fund is going to begin to get built back up again.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I don't have an epi pen I have a vile of it, yes I have training above the average person.

And by the way who peed in your cheerios this morning.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

cmarie said:


> I don't have an epi pen I have a vile of it, yes I have training above the average person.


I can have nursing qualifications within 2 years at my community college, God bless them, it's such an underestimated career. Vets tend to get a bit more respect though because of all the years in university and the cost and brain power used to get the piece of paper. 

Good luck with self medicating your animals though. Please don't share information about it so we don't get too distressed. I'll opt to keep paying my vet.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

cmarie said:


> I don't have an epi pen I have a vile of it, yes I have training above the average person.
> 
> And by the way who peed in your cheerios this morning.


Oh, so having a vial of epi-that makes it all better. Sure hope you guess the right dosage.

BTW-noone "peed in my Cheerios". I just think that ANYONE giving medical advice over the internet to people they do not know about animals or other living things they have not seen or do not know is a VERY slippery slope. Some who may not know better might just take your word as gospel and the consequences could be fatal.

I guess as a nurse in our litigious society I am very hesitant to advise anyone, including friends and neighbors. It is very very easy to get yourself in really deep doo doo in a hurry.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Glad your horse is doing well. I suspected a simple case of new mamma panic after looking at the pictures. It happens to us all at one time or another. I have seen many threads on here where panic and newness to horses has made issues much more serious then they actually where and it is to be expected when you are a first timer at something like foaling. It is better to be extra careful and worried then to not be worried at all! 
Best of Luck and please do keep me posted as to how they are both doing? Have you picked a name for that little troublemaker baby that started all these problems? 
Best of Luck and feel free to PM me any time.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

her name is Sugar because of her attitude. I'm a huge Marilyn Monroe fan and people kept telling me to name her Marilyn because of her diva-ness. I thought it was a kind of dumb name for a horse so I named her Sugar because that is a Marilyn character name in one of her movies. There are photos of her on the foaling thread and in the foals of 2012 thread. She really isn't a trouble maker, she is just very independent and enjoys running out of the gate when I take hay in to feed her mommy. Mama then proceeds to eat and gives me the "you go get her I'm eating" look. Oh well, she is adorable!


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

CMarie:the difference about an allergic reaction when a "lay" person diagnosis and suggests what and how much to give over the internet and a vet giving a diagnosis and amount to give is the "lay" person would probably not have a chance in the world of saving an animal having a reaction but a vet will have a better chance. 
By the way, we give a dosage of about 35CC for a 1000 lb horse of Penicillan, but much less if we are giving PenBenz.......So, when you suggested 1cc per 100lbs, what if the person had PenBenz insted of Penicillan?Does the average "new"horse person even know the difference?What about Amoxicillan? thats another penicillan ,yet with a different dosage.Then you give regular Penicillan twice a day, and Uniprim once a day.
I live where the closest total horse hospital is in colorado or Washington.My vets do large and small, do surgeries in the field,etc. My town doesn't even have a stoplight and the closest Walmart is 2 hours away.
I have all kinds of medications in my frig and animal cupboard, yet would never suggest others what to give and how much.. I have folks ask me to "treat' their animals all the time and refuse to do it,its against the law to treat another persons animals.
I have worked for vets for over 30 years, YET I do not get on the internet and give a diagnosis or suggest what meds to give and how much ,so where you live has nothing to do with being able to pretend to be a vet and self medicate, if you want to self medicate your own animals,go for it,but please don't get on the internet and diagnosis and suggest treatment for others.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

But..but...Wyoming.....you mean just because it says "Penicillin" somewhere on the label or in the book it is not all the same????? :shock::shock:

Really??:wink:

Good post Wyoming. Well said.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

cowgirl, 

So glad your mare is okay and that this was a false alarm. Hope you enjoy your foal. I am off to look at cute foal photos. 

I wanted to comment on some of the other issues raised in this thread. 

Diagnosing, treating or prescibing over the internet and without a veterinarian's license is ALWAYS a bad idea. Suggesting or prescibing antibiotics is particularly problematic for two reasons: 1.) if you get the dosage or the course of treatment wrong and undermedicate, you set the horse up for a secondary infection, which will be dangerous and costly to treat. Most self prescribed or administered antibiotics are not given long enough or for the full course to eliminate that chance. Penicillin usually needs to be given 2x/day for *10 days* 2.) Antiobiotics have a specific range of bacteria that they are effective against. Sometimes you can make an educated guess and prescribe a broad spectrum antibiotic like Penicillin or SMZ-TMP, other times it's critical that you culture the infectioin to determine the correct antibiotic. If you chose the wrong antibiotic for the type of infection, not only will it not treat the infection, it will make it impossible for you to culture and determine the correct treatment afterwards. 

Second, there is nothing wrong with posting questions on an internet message board to get opinions. We've all done it, that's why we're here, right? It is important to remember that what we get from a message board is *opinion* not fact. Using a internet message board as a tool for discussion or clarification after one has a base of knowledge and can evaluate the advice given is great. Using an internet message board as a primary source, when you have no knowledge base and can't tell the informed opinion from the uninformed opinion, good information from bad, is very bad practice indeed and can only lead to frustration. 

Off to look at baby photos!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

cmarie said:


> So the Veterinarian Merek Manual is incorrect, as is the dosage on the label of the bottle..that's good to know.


What is the concentration mentioned in the manual? What is the type of pencillin? What class of livestock is it for? 

A blanket statement such as you gave can harm or kill in the wrong hands.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

FYI OP - Missouri Valley Vet. Clinic / Welcome <<< are in your area, have 24-hr emergency services. I suggest you keep their number handy... And they are not the only equine vets in your area. In fact, you have more vets to access then I do, and some of my friends do... and none of us have the wait and see attitude...


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

I think we can all agree that it is always best to be prescribed meds via a vet. I think it is important that we all remember that new horse owners should not ever attempt to medicate a horse without consulting a vet first. Most vets wont even consider telling a new customer what to give a horse without a call to their farm and a diagnosis. There are many reasons for that and some here have stated that very well indeed.
That being said my fear in allowing a new owner to give shots is more related to site infection, air in the needle, insufficient dosage,, adverse reactions such as alergy to the medication. They are all things we must be mindful of should advice be given as such.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

ND Appy..not to sound critical...you can suggest whatever you wish with the OP but she can and will decide who she wishes to use for a vet without any of our help. I dont recall her asking anywhere on this thread for a clinic she should call. On the contrary she said she has a vet, whom she called (maybe not as fast as you would have) and discussed her horses condition with. 
It has all turned out quite well so I think it is time to stop flailing the subject and move on, as I am going to do. Everyone makes mistakes. She panicked and overstated her concern. It happens and we should all understand that.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Ahh but her claim that there is only one vet that does equines is the area is false. :wink: I have multiple numbers for vets with emergency numbers that are willing to travel to my area or are willing to have me travel to them. Limiting yourself to one vet in emergencies is asinine.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I think everyone posting in this thread needs to go back and take a look at this:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/surprise-foaling-thread-hunny-116197/

It changed my opinion of the OP and her situation. As a new horse owner, she budgeted for her new riding horse and got a mare in foal instead. I think that would present a challenge to the most careful planners and budgeters among us. 

Second, it's clear from the thread that the mare is well cared for, foaled in a safe place, has had in general, good, appropriate care and that her owner is devoted to her care and determined to do whatever is needed. 

However, I also want to defend NdAppy and some of the other vocal critics in this thread. When you've been participating in horse forums for a while, you'll learn that "I can't get the vet out because __________" is a huge red flag, usually posted by somone using the internet in place of veterinary advice. We've all heard it over and over, and 99% of the time, it's an excuse for inadequate care. The whole reason there's a vet directory on this forum is that the number one entry for the blank in that statement is "...there isn't one close to me." 

What happened in this thread is that the poor OP unwittingly posted the "red flag" statement separately from the thread detailing all her efforts to care for her mare. 

The foal is adorable. Best of luck to you, the mare and the foal.


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## cowgirl928 (Feb 4, 2012)

lol Missouri Valley Vet is the only trusted equine vet in the area with full facilities  they're the ones I called and the ones I went to. Dr. Russ is in fact the only equine vet I prefer, the other one is good, but Dr. Russ is just so good with horses and is so calm and explains what he is doing and why. The other guy just does it without telling you and it's like "...Uhhh why are you doing that? What are you doing?..."


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

I want to offer my best wishes, prayers for what you're going through, and sincerely hope all goes well for you, your mare and foal! - so much to deal with, and you're doing all you possibly can, and quite well under the circumstances


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

faye said:


> People giving antibiotic willy nilly, wrong doses or incomplete courses of antibiotics are the sole reason we have the Super bugs like MRSA!!!
> 
> I far prefer the system over here where only a vet is allowed to give any antibiotics to horses and they have to be prescribed for a perticular horse. You cannot just keep a bottle in your fridge/freezer just in case.


actually around 80% of all antiobiotics used in the usa are used in feed lot farming I don't think the casual once in a great while animal owner is the problem. MRSA as well is linked to factory cattle farming.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

actualy they probably do a lot more damage then the size of the "once in a while" population should.
The "once in a while" people tend to be the ones who don't give correct doses, dont give the correct course or dont finnish the course.


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

Cowgirl;
Am so very relieved that your beloved mare is well and all of this conjecture was ultimately, for naught!

To the few folks who mentioned the various different applications for Oxytocin in the horse/animal world & seemed to be somewhat insulting to nurses in general (one our two posters briefly), I believe I very clearly started my qualifications, or rather, LACK OF QUALIFICATIONS in regard to horse reproduction, as well as the fact that despite my FOUR year (BSN) Registered Nursing degree (not one I "picked up as anyone-apparently-can, in two years at a community college"), PLUS 15+ years of acute care experience and 6+ of which in L&D, I never recommended Cowgirl DO ANYTHING WITH THE DRUG, rather, I pointed out (for her PIECE OF MIND ONLY, AT A TIME WHEN SHE MADE IT CLEAR SHE WOULD JUST BE SITTING THERE WORRYING AS NO VET WOULD BE ARRIVING IMMEDIATELY) that most of the time WITH HUMAN MOTHERS, the oxytocin has passed it's effective point shortly after birthing. 

As well, I told her that (again, IN HUMANS!) there is a large volume of blood loss with retained placenta, thus, "IF" horses are in any way similar, she would "probably" have seen such.

I never advised her as to what she should give, med-wise, and rather, again, I advised she NOT GIVE OXYTOCIN, for the reasons I mentioned in my post which COULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME FOR HORSES AS HUMANS, THOUGH I MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT I could not advise her as to that, only as to what "might be" & some things she "could check for", since her options at that point were limited, and I hated the thought of her sitting there panicking in light of no other choice by that time!

I was trying to ease her mind while also giving her some productive things to think about and check for. I really hope that the harsh criticism posts aimed at nurses and such were not directed at me, as I do not believe I could have qualified myself any moreso than I did when giving her the info I gave...as well, I certainly NEVER TOLD HER to administer ANY DRUG to her mare, not would I have, not being a Veterinarian! 

The LAST thing I need (our anyone needs, I imagine!) is a dead or injured mare/foal on their conscience, and advice about giving meds (& not simply a basic info session on what certain meds are and are not used for, generally speaking) MUST BE LEFT TO MDs & vets, period.

I just felt I needed to clear the air on that one, as I was truly trying to help her, and do not feel I misled her our did anything outside of my scope of practice OR experience. I had a hard time discerning if folks were indicating I had overstepped, or if the posters being referred to were some other than myself, as no names were used.

By the way, thank you to the Mod (now I forget YOUR name, I'm sorry!) Who filled me and everyone else in on what oxytocin can be used for in the HORSE WORLD...very good/interesting info! That is further reason to never give human drugs to animals, thinking they will do the same things without vet advice, as I never knew oxytocin would be used on a non-pregnant/post-pregnancy animal uterus, for example! That is what I love about this forum, ALL THE LEARNING I HAVE accomplished HERE! :0)

Again, sooo happy mom & baby are well, Cowgirl! Enjoy your "surprise package" now that things are calmer... :0)


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