# Horrific Loss...How the Heck do I cope? What do I tell my son?! (graphic descrip)



## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

So I'm sorry if this is rambling but I feel like throwing up and crying right now...I'm so used to not crying and maintaining myself no matter what though, and so the tears and everything else are just building up inside so that I feel like I"m going to explode. I don't know what to do! I'm an adult, and I need to pull up my big girl panties, right? It's just a horse...I still have to feed myself, feed my son and head to the college to try to work things out.

I couldn't sleep last night....the puppies kept barking outside sometime around 4, 5ish. I ignored them. Hubby always says to ignore them because they always bark. Around 6:17 was stirring up some pancake batter and decided to go feed the horses their hay...only three horses come up and I don't see the stunted Shetland boy, Pumpkin.

Oh god, you know how people always say they KNOW something is wrong?! Since when do I bring food and all four of those critters don't run up no matter what they're doing? I figured, maybe he was hurt, or maybe someone stole him, because I didn't see him....there was nothing there, but this crazy brown Pit Bull dog that I shoo'ed away that was barking and growling at me....

Only, Pumpkin was still there. Something Eviscerated him from the anus, and ate his thighs. I could see guts, only not in the lab, not in pictures, but on the ground, of my horse, right in front of me!!!! I chased that stupid dog down after pounding on my window for my husband and tried to take pix...the dog got out of my fence and I got one pic of it from my camera before the battery died. I made my husband get his phone and chase the **** thing down....I wish we had shot it.

I stayed home and called the sheriff and Animal Control. The dog sat in front of its house and as soon as AC showed up, the owner let the dog in the fence, said it wasn't his dog, where's the blood on it? And left....AC says that owner and dog pair have a history, they KNOW the dog did it, and they are going to give him a ticket or restraining order thing, but that since the dog is in the fence now, they can't seize it. SO THE BEST WE CAN DO IS TAKE HIM TO CIVIL COURT.

I don't have any pictures of the dog *in* the fence. By the time I realized Pumpkin was gone, the dog had shimmied out and was at the neighbors house. I don't know what to do...what's the point of trying to sue? The pony is dead, the owner doesn't give a spit, and I don't have pictures of him In my property. =(

What do i tell my son??!

And on top of everything that dog is dangerous and it knows there is food to be had here. I have two puppies, three other horses on site and chickens. I guess I have to be extra vigilant and sleep with a loaded rifle nearby.

I'm such a mess right now.

RIP Pumpkin, I'm sorry I didn't give you a longer life, but I did the best I could.


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## Jore (Dec 4, 2010)

I have no idea what to say, other than I am so sorry for your horrific and tragic loss. I cannot imagine how I would cope after something like that, but I hope that you are able to get justice for Pumpkin and I hope that you and your family are able to overcome this tragedy.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Pumpkin with his buddies:


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Jore said:


> I have no idea what to say, other than I am so sorry for your horrific and tragic loss. I cannot imagine how I would cope after something like that, but I hope that you are able to get justice for Pumpkin and I hope that you and your family are able to overcome this tragedy.


Thank you Jore, 

My husband and I are both just sick inside.

We do have good news.

*The AC lady just came by to "maybe" pick up Pumpkin's remains, and THEY PICKED UP THAT DOG.* She says they normally would not have but because they have had so many issues with this dog and owner, they did it anyway. I hope to god they don't get into trouble because this dog is dangerous, and I am very glad he is off the streets!!!!

(Apparently this owner has at least two german shepherds too)


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh gee, I'm so sorry DWM, that is awful! My thoughts are with you and your family. Don't hesitate to shoot that dog next time he steps foot on your property. 

It's ok to cry - cleans the windows to the soul. You have gone through an awful thing, hang in there.:hug:


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## BlueDiamonds218 (Jul 28, 2013)

Im so sorry hun, hugs!!!


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## MsLady (Apr 18, 2013)

There are no words I can think of to comfort you and your family. I am so sorry for your families loss of Pumpkin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

It'll be back. Be ready with your loaded shotgun, IMHO.

Horrible! I hope the dog killed the pony first. I hope you didn't have to finish the job. Simply HORRIBLE!!

I would just tell your kid the pony passed and leave it at that.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Pumpkin and his best friend:


Pumpkin in his finery:


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm so sorry ): That's really awful... It's such a shame when people don't have the decency to control their own animals...

EDIT-Pumpkin is so cute...


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

OMG DWM, he was precious wasn't he . Again, so so sorry


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

My condolences go out to you and yours.


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## BigGreyHorse (Sep 28, 2009)

Just went through something similar this past month. It sucks! I was only away from the property 45 minutes to grocery shop. Neighbors dogs dug under the fence and killed 2 sheep outright, ripped up 6 others. Ended up losing a total of 5 ewes. We got extremely lucky because the dogs wouldn't go home. We had to have the owner come and retrieve them. By the time he did that, AC and the sheriff were here. Don't know what your laws are in CA, but here, issuing a ticket means that the dog has to be turned over to AC in 48hrs or the owner will be arrested. 

All I can say is I totally understand what you are going through. Stay firm and fight. The dog owner has to be held responsible.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

That is awful, I really can't imagine having to cope with that, words aren't enough.

Thinking of you and your family


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

I am so very sorry this happened. I really have to stop reading these threads at work - crying for you. He was the cutest little guy.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

BigGreyHorse said:


> By the time he did that, AC and the sheriff were here. Don't know what your laws are in CA, but here, issuing a ticket means that the dog has to be turned over to AC in 48hrs or the owner will be arrested.


She said originally that once he was in the fence they couldnt take him. BUT since they did take him, they will give him a couple options. He can sign the dog over to AC or they will have a proper trial. (sorry for edit, i got confused, too much in my head)

I hope to god he surrenders it. Again, I wish I had shot it, I know he is doing something natural to him, but he isn't a wolf, he's a dog, and even if Pumpkin was a pitiful excuse for a horse, he's still considered "livestock" to be protected.

Anyway apparently here and elsewhere, if the dog is still on your property you can shoot it. 

Thanks everybody for your condolences, I just feel so sick, I can't even describe it. My son is still asleep. He won't notice for awhile, I have NO CLUE how to tell a 4 year old that his horse died in a nice way.....


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## xlionesss (Jan 30, 2012)

That dog WASN'T doing something natural....
He is a *domesticated dog* and should NOT have the urge to tear apart someones pet....

Not safe at all, and it would NOT surprise me if that dog went to attack a human next. That's generally all it takes, one taste of blood.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

You have my most sincere and heartfelt condolences, Demonwolfmoon. I'm very angry at the dog owner. It may not be appropriate at this time but think of getting a lawyer and get him where it hurts - in his pocket book.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

That is simply, unbeleieveably awful! I am stunned . I'd be crazed with anger. I don't know how old your son is, but I am not sure I'd tell him it was a dog. If he is very small, it might make him very afriad of ALL strange dogs, and they arent all bad. But, you'll know what to do.

So, so sorry and hugs from here,
Caroline


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Oh how awful. I am so sorry  Hopefully AC will get that dog taken care of. Hugs and prayers for all of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> That is simply, unbeleieveably awful! I am stunned . I'd be crazed with anger. I don't know how old your son is, but I am not sure I'd tell him it was a dog. If he is very small, it might make him very afriad of ALL strange dogs, and they arent all bad. But, you'll know what to do.
> 
> So, so sorry and hugs from here,
> Caroline


Thanks, he is FOUR!!! His birthday was the 18th, just a few days ago. =/

Pumpkin was literally the *only* horse my son ever liked. ='(

And on another note...guys, I can sue him until my face turns blue...Pumpkin was a rescue, he wasn't "worth" much for one, and for two, even If I "won", what's going to make him pay? The man literally didn't give a spit what his dog did, just let him in the fence, said "there's no blood on him", and drove off to work peacefully, while my pony is rotting in the pasture half eaten.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh, Demon, I'm so sorry :hug:. That's absolutely horrible.


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## MissingStar (Feb 20, 2013)

Poor little boy. I'm so sorry for your loss and in such horrible circumstances. I wish the justice system would hit these waste of space dog owners harder than they do. This should be viewed as more than criminal damage to "property" when sentence is considered. Pumpkin was a family member and it's the least he deserves.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Oh man  I couldnt even imagine finding your animal like that!! 

I guess it all depends on you. Personally I'd be as truthful as possible without the gory details. Maybe say you found him and he had passed away. If he probes for for tell him an animal attacked him (I'd or tell him your unsure. You could always use colic as a reason too. 

I'm sorry your in such a tough situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fourteen (Jan 8, 2013)

My deepest condolences. I'm so sorry that your family is going through such a disturbing and tragic loss. 

I'm glad that AC has the animal under its control now. I don't think your 4 yr old needs to know that the pony died in such a horrific manner. Loss is an inevitable part of owning animals. You don't need to give him a lot of details, just tell him that the pony got very sick very quickly and died on his own. That way you're not lying but you're not traumatizing your son either.


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## zookeeper1991 (Sep 11, 2012)

How awful! I am so sorry for your loss.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I'm so very sorry about your loss. Pumpkin looks like he was much loved and that's the greatest tribute an animal can have.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear about your loss. Tell your son the pony passed away in the night. He can't wrap his little head around the ugly details and all his memories of that pony should be good ones. Hugs!


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## corgi (Nov 3, 2009)

I am so sorry for your loss. I am sick to my stomach thinking about what you are going through.

Hopefully AC will put the dog down, especially since there is a history of other issues. If not, you definitely have the right to shoot it if it enters your property to protect your livestock.

If it is any comfort, when you rescued Pumpkin, you gave him a good life and he was able to enjoy his life with you and his buddies.

Hugs to you and your family.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

OP you tell your son the truth but leave the gory details out. Go with your instincts and allow him to ask questions. Answer them honestly.
I would take the dog owner to court and at the least he would be responsible for court cost and whatever damages you are awarded. Until he pays a lien can be placed on his property and even after paying he will have to pay something to have them removed.
Owners like him will not IMO learn their lesson and he will get another Pit. Shalom


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

I just remembered something...back at our old barn, we used to let Pumpkin out when he had his corrective shoes on...he was on stall rest...and we'd have my son walk back and forth, because Pumpkin would follow him like a puppy.

Lucian would start running, Pumpkin would trot after him...he'd stop, Pumpkin would stop. My son would walk backwards into the horse, the horse would just stand there and get bonked by my son's head. God they were so attached to eachother!!! I'm going to look for the video and post it....


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

So sorry for your loss - I would not be containing myself so well!

Poor little Pumpkin he is such a sweetheart  Your son will understand, but you need to spam your neighbor with gory photos of what his dog did, rename the neighbor "pony killer", and make sure that dog is PTS. Make the case that you're worried about the safety of your son. If the dog will take down a pony, what would it do to him?

I am so sad for you 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)




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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

*I am so sorry for your loss.* **hugs and prayers sent**
Do whatEVER you need to do to keep your other animals safe on your property.
I think the cheapest and easiest solution would be to hot wire the bottoms of your fencing, if you don't already have some there. I don't care for it myself, but where I used to keep my horses the BO used it. It goes right through you if you touch it, and a dog isn't gonna want to be zapped twice.
It burns me up when dog owners are so irresponsible. My GS/Collie mix "Zena" (1998-2008, RIP) wouldn't kill even a baby bird, and my two dogs can be defensive, but they've made friends with my neighbors AND their dogs and even "Rose" licks our neighbor's baby's face on his walks. They are BOTH GS mixes. 
You will have waves of grief--I know bc I've been there.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

We moved into this place July 1st, it's a rental. I suppose we could probably hook up some hot wire along the bottom of the fence soon. 

Ya know what gets me?

The man next door has pigs...a couple of small baby ones, and a couple big pregnant sows in a separate pen...and they are literally not that far from where Pumpkin died. Why Pumpkin? Wouldn't a fat juicy pig have been easier? I honestly don't wish that on my neighbor, or anyone, it just really hurts that that poor stupid, innocent animal couldn't just CATCH A BREAK! =(

My head hurts, I gotta get my son ready and try to work out stuff with the school....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I am so sorry
No one should have to face something like that but if that dog is capable of it then at some point in time its going to happen again so it should be destroyed really - next time could be a child


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm so so so sorry for your loss.
The video is so good, everytime your boy says 'oops, sorry' to pumpkin, it's literally the most amazing thing ever. You have a great kid, and pumpkin seems like he was a great pony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JaneyWaney9 (Jun 7, 2010)

I am so sorry. I can't imagine that kind of pain you must all be feeling.
I would be as truthful to your boy as possible, but definitely keep out the ugly details. Just tell him the pony got into an accident and died peacefully. He will probably ask questions, but just be vague. Don't lie, but skip the details. He may ask again when he's older, and there may be a time when he should know what really happened...but at age four, he has a lot to worry about. 
However, you should warn him about the dog if he comes back. Whether you tell him that the dog had anything to do with the pony is up to you, but at age four, he should know to stay far away from that dog. I wouldn't let him go out by himself, but he should be aware that the dog is dangerous.


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

I am so sorry! That is absolutely tragic! I can't imagine what you are going through right now. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family.


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## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

I'm so sorry! What a horrible loss. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

This makes me sick to my stomach. That poor poor pony. And poor you. Do whatever you need to do, to help yourself and your son get over this horrific incident


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> So sorry for your loss - I would not be containing myself so well!
> 
> Poor little Pumpkin he is such a sweetheart  Your son will understand, but you need to spam your neighbor with gory photos of what his dog did, rename the neighbor "pony killer", and make sure that dog is PTS. Make the case that you're worried about the safety of your son. If the dog will take down a pony, what would it do to him?
> 
> ...


Thank you, he was a cutie.

Im not sure that its legal to spam someone irl though 

Given my luck, Id get sued by that loser!

I do kind of want to put a public service announcement on Craigslist though....keep your dogs contained.....this is what an uncaring owner allowed to happen....

If he doesn't get put down I may have to resort to the Triple S rule. IT WILL NOT TOUCH MY SON!


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

CandyCanes said:


> This makes me sick to my stomach. That poor poor pony. And poor you. Do whatever you need to do, to help yourself and your son get over this horrific incident


I think my son woke up for a sec when I pounded on the window for DH to get up and bring the camera and a gun.

DH woke DS up for bfast later, and DS said. "Pumpkin is dead. The dogs killing him".

So..I didnt have to break it to him, he knew, even if he doesn't UNDERSTAND. I have told him that Im sorry, and I've been giving him hugs all morning. 

He is playing an old Marvel game right now, so he is distracted. DD will be a little harder, but her bio dad is on board for once...he is going to talk to her and console her after I break the news tonight.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Oh, Demon, so so sorry for such a horrific incident. That pony was absolutely adorable, looks like a little character. I agree with Allison that it's probably best to tell your son (not sure of age) that the pony was hurt and died.

ETA: Just read of his age, that is a tough age to help them process loss. Here is a resource on some picture books that help children make sense of the loss of a pet: http://hrvethospice.com/childrens-books-on-pet-loss.html


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I am so sorry for your loss of your dear pony 
hugs to you and your family especially you son 

The man and dog should be punished


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

OMG. I am so very sorry for your loss. When I first started reading I jumped to the conclusion of a cat. A nearby community had a mountain lion (?) take down some cows and my friend's day old colt. to find it was caused by a DOG that has a HOME is, well, gut wrenching.

If that dog was hunting it was because of hunger. The owner is obviously not providing it with enough food. Today your Shetland. Who tomorrow? A child? A small dog? 

I know there are pit bull owners on this forum whose dogs are lambs. I won't bash the dog, I will bash the owner.

I am glad AC picked the dog up. I hope they realize that Pumpkin's death is on their hands. I would consider placing a suit against the city. Frankly, what if it had been a HUMAN? They knew the dog had issues. They should never have let it escalate to a pony's death.

Shed your tears. You were the victim of stupidity and a failed system. And, keep your guns safely stored but handy. If those GSD's cross the street, shoot first and consider their intentions first.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Thank you, Egrogan. Just skimming the list gave me an idea...maybe we could have a little funeral/memorial. Im sure the website will help.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Oh, demon, I'm so sorry!! Hugs and prayers for you and your family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fulford15 (Oct 17, 2012)

I am so sorry. My thoughts are with you and your family.


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## wild old thing (Jun 15, 2012)

Being that your son is so young, perhaps he didn't wrap his head around what was said to him. when he asks, say the pony got sick in the middle of the night. If he asks specifically, you can say - no no daddy was mistaken because he was so sad, the pony got very sick and he died. This is sad enough and you don't want him afraid and worried that the dog that killed his pony is going to kill the rest of you. 

I am so sorry - that little Pumpkin was adorable, about the cutest thing I've ever seen. Beautiful baby. This is terrible for your family. 

You're being very strong and smart about this. Big hug to you and your family. THis is a terrible loss.

Don't go for vengeance - go for justice and what's right. The dog needs to be put down, it's sad but it's true - he's killed livestock and can't be trusted not to again. or worse. The owner and people like him shouldn't be permitted to own animals because they don't train them properly and sometimes they even encourage aggressive behavior. They belong in jail. Sick. You have dogs, you MUST train them to be gentle and nonaggressive. 

The dog is a predatory animal. Dogs stalking to kill can happen. I have a hound. I have a pit. My pit is an idiot - adorable but useless - we'd all starve to death if we depended on his ability to look at anything other than a bowl of food as food. He sees HIMSELF as prey. But my girl, a hound is quiet. Until she sees a small animal, then she'll keen to get loose and check them out. She's a hunter. I think she would shake an animal dead if I let her at one. She's not a killer, she's a hunter and naturally wants to do this. Obviously she is not allowed to get loose.

Some animals hunt instinctively. I don't know why because I'm not a behaviorist. But I know once an animal does it, if it's gratified, it will probably do it again if the opportunity is there.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I am so sorry DWM, how heartbreaking.


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## SleipnirCB (Jun 5, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear of your loss, I wish you strength.

The following poem is inspired by this Norse Legend

By the edge of a woods, at the foot of a hill,
Is a lush, green meadow where time stands still.
Where the friends of man and woman do run,
When their time on earth is over and done.

For here, between this world and the next,
Is a place where each beloved creature finds rest.
On this golden land, they wait and they play,
Till the Rainbow Bridge they cross over one day.

No more do they suffer, in pain or in sadness,
For here they are whole, their lives filled with gladness.
Their limbs are restored, their health renewed,
Their bodies have healed, with strength imbued.

They romp through the grass, without even a care,
Until one day they start, and sniff at the air.
All ears ***** forward, eyes dart front and back,
Then all of a sudden, one breaks from the pack.

For just at that instant, their eyes have met;
Together again, both person and pet.
So they run to each other, these friends from long past,
The time of their parting is over at last.

The sadness they felt while they were apart,
Has turned into joy once more in each heart.
They embrace with a love that will last forever,
And then, side-by-side, they cross over… together.

-- Steve and Diane Bodofsky --


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## LouieThePalomino (Dec 15, 2012)

Im so sorry for your loss! This stood dogs owner sounds like a complete ***. If I saw that dog perioud, any kind of bully breed or vicious looking dog around my animals or livestock I wpuldve shot it on the spot no questions asked. As to why he went after pumpkin and not the pigs it was prolly because pumpkin ran. Man this makes me mad. I woulve skinned the dog and gave it back to the owner lol. Idots these days. And what worries me the most is that you have a young child and that kind of dog running loose that has proven to be a killer. I wouldnt tolerate it for a second.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

Do NOT lie to your son. What if he finds out in 5-10 years what really happened to him? Then he will start wondering what else you've lied to him about and he will start doubting his ability to trust you. I've been there, I KNOW. He will be sad, he might even be scared, but taking the easy way out now is not going to be good in the long run. 

I'm super sorry about pumpkin. He looked like a sweet pony. And next time you see that dog on the property put a bullet in his head.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

I would wait, and wait for that dog to set one foot off your neighbors property and shoot it. But... That's me...


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

That is so terrible!! I'm so sorry you and your family had to experience that. 

My in laws had a problem with the neighbors dogs coming over and killing their goats. One goat had been killed in the way that you described. Another goat had gotten its head stuck in the fence and the dogs came over and destroyed its ears and one side of its face. They also tore up its hind end. It was very sad! Finally my in laws shot the dogs on two different occasions and dumped the bodies. The sheriff couldn't do anything and the owners didn't care and acted like it was my in laws fault. 

Its good that your son knows some what of what really happened. I hope your daughter takes the news as well as can be expected. RIP Pumpkin!!


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

dbarabians said:


> OP you tell your son the truth but leave the gory details out. Go with your instincts and allow him to ask questions. Answer them honestly.
> I would take the dog owner to court and at the least he would be responsible for court cost and whatever damages you are awarded. Until he pays a lien can be placed on his property and even after paying he will have to pay something to have them removed.
> Owners like him will not IMO learn their lesson and he will get another Pit. Shalom



Exactly! I have one like that next door. Her Pit used to climb my 6 foot fence and growl at me in MY yard. She finally got rid of that dog and got another Pit and this one broke my fence and attacked my dogs. It has come after my dogs on 3 different occasions and recently ran out into the street and attacked a collie being walked by an elderly woman. She still lets the Pit off leash. Some people need to be hit HARD or they won't learn.

I am so very very sorry about dear little Pumpkin. You said he was a rescue so he wasn't worth much but that is far from the truth. He was a living, breathing, LOVED creature. How much is love worth? He was your sons friend, How much is that worth? He was a lovely little pony and how much you paid, is not how much he was worth. RIP Pumpkin. 

I hope that, that dog is put to sleep. Not because I would ever wish bad things to any animal, it isn't the dogs fault he has a crap owner but sadly, he is dangerous because of it and we can't wish to have the owner put down.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

So sorry for this. It's awful to see, I know. 

I guess by now you have told your son something. So my input is probably too late, but I would tell your son the truth, but just the bare truth. That the dog killed the pony and the dog is now in control of responsible people. Your son doesn't need to know exactly how the dog killed the pony. Whatever questions he asks, answer them as simply as you can. It's tough, but the truth is what will, in the end, make it somewhat easier. No lies, nothing to remember. Keep it simple and non-graphic.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

Some of you apparently read just enough to give you something to post to. Please read all of the thread so you can post an informed reply. The dog was picked up by AC.


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## rideverystride (Jul 19, 2013)

I am so sorry. Your pony looked like a cutie. He had such kind eyes . My condolences on your loss.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I just wanted to add that telling your son that the pony got sick and died as previously suggested, is not a good idea, IMO. Lies need to be remembered and lying to children especially is never a good idea. 

What a cute video. Hugs to your son. Kids are amazingly resilient with loving support around them. He will be fine as long as he is allowed to ask questions and get answers. The unknown is the scariest thing of all.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

What a horrible thing. I cannot imagine. He truly was a lovely pony and your sone will always have very fond memories of him, I am sure. I am very glad AC has the dog, and do hope they will have it PTS. As has been said-I would worry about what is next. Perhaps make your neighbors-ALL OF THEM-aware to shoot the offenders dogs on site on their property.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I am so sorry that is horrible! For your son, tell him as much of the truth as is appropriate. That is tell him that his horse had an accident and did not make it. You don't need to tell him the details and I would not necessarily tell him that a dog did it as it could create more issues that you really want. Don't lie to him completely because kids have a way of finding out. I also suggest that you purchase a plush toy that looks like Pumpkin if you can find one. Tell your son that this is Pumpkins friend and whenever he misses Pumpkin he can hug that toy and Pumpkin will know. It sounds silly but my parents did something similar with me when I was around your sons age and my pet rabbit died. I loved that plush rabbit and derived great comfort from it through my childhood. As an adult, I profoundly appreciate what my parents did (and I still have the plush toy).


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Oh, wow, I'm so sorry to hear this. How absolutely tragic. :-(
I would be almost upset that the AC picked up the dog - I would have liked to tey for a shot at it, preferably while it was running at its owner... 
At least you know he is gone now.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*dog attacking horse.*

i am sorry to hear of your loss and to hear a story like yours is unbeleavable.
in times like this you get over welmed with shock of what has happend and a soal serch why me why my horse.
i was walking tricky down a track it was a warm day we were minding our own buissness when a woman and her 2 children had a rotwiler.
the dog mad a bee line for tricky and tricky feard for him self as the dog broke free from the kid.
tricky was being chased by this dog i was in persuit but no match for them i was calling him and he was running back to the yard.
he then came to the road were the yard is and he was out of sight and so was the dog i was colapsing with exhustion.
and i was hepless i got on the phone to my barn owner and he ran passed her with the dog in hot persuit.
he was going to go into the main road when a kid diverted him back in to the road. whilst he turned the dog went for his wind pipe just missing his jugular vein.
and his neck was bleeding the dog was trying to bring him down.
a man that lives in the street jumped on the dog and pulld it to one side the owner hurred and took the dog in.
i was in compleat shock i got him in the yard and called the vet and police i took photos and was ready to take them to court.
the dog was a rescue and it was homed with them.
the dog was a danger and had to go.
we then got to work and put stock fence around our paddocks to stop any intrusion from dogs.
a letter was sent from my vet and from my self theterning them with action.
thay payed the vet bill in full and the dog went back with the help of the police and the rspca here if the dog did not go it was going to be forceabley removed by the law and probley distroyed.
my self i was in shock i did cry and i thought i was going to have a hart attack my breathing went up the wall hyperventalateing.
i had a thought that he would have been hit by a car but thanks to the young kid that had the guts to intervean in the situation.
i cant thank him enough.
and to the neibour who tackled the dog. 
he has fully recoverd.
the dog owners now have a rodeasion ridge back i keep my eyes on it.
all i can say i wish i had a gun on me i would have opened up on the dog as it was in a public place what we call a bridle path.
but the law here says no fire arms but still i wish i had one as the look in the dogs eyes it had my pony in its sites.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*ehusted pony and bite marks.*


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

So sorry for your tragic loss DWM. I'm sure you've told your son something by now. I think the plush pony idea is a good one-could be comforting. I think that dog owner needs to re-imburse you for the cost of a good gentle pony. RIP Pumpkin.


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## luv my horse hinke (Aug 7, 2012)

awww im so sorry to hear this :/


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

To say I am so very sorry for your loss isn't enough.

Shooting the dog would give you away but, they make poison for dogs like that. So he suffers, so what -- live by sword, die by the sword.

And I'm not kidding for one split second---------------------


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Oh DWM I'm so sorry you had to go through that...seeing Kenzie mauled but alive was almost too much for me to handle, I can't imagine having to see your beloved rescue in that state. My heart goes out to you and your family.

However short that time was, know that you did make Pumpkin's life 100x better than it was before, and you should be proud of yourself for that. He was a beautiful little colt.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

DWM, sorry to hear about the loss :-(

.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

here in California, which i notice you're in California as well, i have grown accustomed to ignorant dog owners with an unhealthy appreciation for Pit bulls. It's kinda' the "norm" around these parts. I had one grab hold of my greyhound by the shoulder blades, give her a good shake, and we ended up in the hospital with 40 staples. All at my financial and emotional expense. The owners of the Pit simply told me to screw off. 
Ugh. Makes me crazy. I'm sympathize and empathize with you, my friend.


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## EmsTNWalkers (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh my how tragic, I'm so sorry for your loss -hugs-


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

That is so sad. We had the same thing happen, except the neighbours were willing to deal with the dog right then and there, and we had it put down at the vet. He was a big Pyrenees and no one knows what got him to go through such a vicious attack. My heart goes out to you.


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

I am so very sorry for your loss, Pumpkin looks like he was an absoute sweety. 

I am NOT a fan of pit bulls at all, they have the potential to do so much damage.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I am so sorry for your loss. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family tonight.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Pittbulls are NOT in themselves the problem.

Any dog can go batcrap crazy and hurt someone. My childhood dog was a Shih tzu who had been abused. He bit through my lip when I hugged him one day (he was sleeping). And there are far worse stories, thats just what happened to me.

It becomes a problem when people don't know what they have, can't see what their doing wrong, and let dogs go undisciplined, unexcercized (physically AND mentally) and out of control. This guy, for example, had a dog that repeatedly escaped. i wonder if he even tried to remedy this? I also wonder if the dog was fixed. And yes, I have seen Pittbull attacks before...my own mother and aunt were mutilated by their own dog...they knew it was coming, and didn't change what they were doing.
In any case...I blame the dog, but I don't blame the dog. He's broken, and his owner failed him. His life would have been different with someone who made some effort.

As far as I can tell, DS is coping. He hasn't brought up Pumpkin since this morning, but it's been a few hours since I last saw him. Hubby and I will brainstorm tonight and figure out toys, books and memorial issues appropriate for his age. I am glad that my son was not exposed to the body...he was playing in the dragmarks earlier and hubby freaked out. There's a lot of trauma going on in my house right now.

I called DD when I was at school...she is staying with her dad right now, and as our family dog died last month, and she isn't too happy to be staying with her dad.... I knew that she would take Pumpkin's death all sorts of hard. I coordinated with her dad this morning, and thankfully he decided to work with me on this one!!! I let her know as gently as I could that Pumpkin had been killed, and she burst into tears and sobbing. I couldn't even understand most of her questions, but she was worried what the other horse, Pumpkin's mom would think? I assured her the best I could that her Pony would not be traumatized, since by the time we get her shipped, she would have no way of knowing.... I tried consoling her, and when I had to go, I told her to go talk to her dad, maybe tell him all the good things about Pumpkin. She also asked me if we could set up a shrine (memorial) to poor Pumpkin, and I said that we definitely would. It seems to be one thing that I'm sure both my kids can relate to and understand, even in abstract.

Anyway thank you everyone for your kind thoughts. I break down a little bit earlier when reading the poem. All I can think of is that IT WAS NOT HIS TIME TO GO!!! I will sleep on it the best that I can, and figure out both my course of action for the children, but also for the POS owner that allowed this to happen. I definitely need a clear mind for that...it's going to take time, but he should be held responsible and made to understand what his actions caused.


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## Paintlover1965 (May 22, 2009)

So sorry for your loss. I have had more than my share of dog related incidents albeit not as horrific as yours but nonetheless still scary. I would like to appeal to all of those irresponsible dog owners out there to take better care of their animals so that these tragic events aren't repeated. Thankfully, too there are some really great dog owners where I ride and I admire them greatly. My prayers are with you and your family. I think your approach in delivering the news to your daughter was the right one. My heart aches for you.


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## Marcie (Jul 25, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss. And how it came about was so terrible. I am soo so sorry.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

OH my gosh I am sooo sorry.. I hope that the dog gets put down. If not... Id make sure either 1) All animals are in a pen where a dog couldnt get in.. or ur sitting outside waiting for him to step a single paw on the property.. 

IF for some reason he doesn't get put down.. maybe set a trap.. Id do it.. 

Two dogs were just wondering.. Not caring about the horses.. or the chickens.. and my dad got his gun ready.. one wrong move towards either of our animals.. and the "subjects' would have been .. done for...:/

Sorry again. hope everything gets figured out.. thats gotta be hard to deal with


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## lyssymae (Apr 11, 2011)

My prayers are with you and your family. No person or animal should ever have to endure this, especially so precious a pony as Pumpkin.


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## Roux (Aug 23, 2013)

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I can't imagine the pain you and your family are going through right now. You are in my thoughts. *hug*


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## VickiRose (Jul 13, 2013)

OMG we've only been though this with sheep, not a much loved pet. My heart goes out to you, I have some idea what you may have been confronted with. 
May Pumpkin fun free over the rainbow to where all good horses go.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

I am so sorry for your loss, and am thinking of you and yours.


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## acorn (Nov 27, 2012)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Thanks, he is FOUR!!! His birthday was the 18th, just a few days ago. =/
> 
> Pumpkin was literally the *only* horse my son ever liked. ='(
> 
> And on another note...guys, I can sue him until my face turns blue...Pumpkin was a rescue, he wasn't "worth" much for one, and for two, even If I "won", what's going to make him pay? The man literally didn't give a spit what his dog did, just let him in the fence, said "there's no blood on him", and drove off to work peacefully, while my pony is rotting in the pasture half eaten.


I am so so sorry this happened to your pony.

We lived in heck for several years due to our neighbors dogs. We had goats and ever so often they would manage to get in and kill goats. We had spent thousands on fencing they could not get through but they still got under.

Our neighbor did...not...care. He would deny that his dogs did it although we saw them and once saw him go in our pasture to retrieve his dogs after a killing spree. His reason for not penning his dogs? If he penned his dogs a bob cat would come in and kill his chickens.. Can you believe it?

We finally took him to court and we won. I told our neighbor that if I didn't see his dogs out he could not pay us but IF I saw one out I would go after that money any way I could. So far I haven't seen one and that has been two years ago.

By the way in some counties you can sue for three times the value of the stock lost.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

DWM, I'm rarely at a loss for words, but this scenario is too horrific. My deepest condolences.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> DWM, I'm rarely at a loss for words, but this scenario is too horrific. My deepest condolences.


Thank you, SR and others.

I do have an update, if not an entirely happy one. I couldn't sleep and went to shovel poo and feed early this morning. Heh. Best thing ever.

Anyway along the far side of the fence, near the neighbor's pigs and where Pumpkin died, I found cut off bits of his tail in several of the low lying plants. When I told hubby to go get his phone to take pictures, I realized that I was also looking at footprints of both Pumpkin, the other horses, and that dog. As we went along we found...what looks like drag marks, and the dog walking sideways. So...It makes me feel somewhat better knowing that I am not accusing an innocent animal that happened by Pumpkin, who died in the night or something and scavanged..*.Pumpkin FOUGHT FOR HIS LIFE.* The drag marks go for quite aways. I am proud that Pumpkin tried so hard to save himself, and ashamed that I wasn't there to save him.

I will upload some of those pictures when hubby gets them to me. They are not graphic in any way, and just show the coincidence of dog print and horse together. Hubby says (and he's no hunter) that it looks like the stupid dog was chasing the other horses around too. Again, totally surprised my draft x didn't kill him...

The other crap thing is that, though we searched for bite marks on the horses, we didn't check them too well yesterday. My husband's rescue mare is barely able to walk, and by that I mean she doesn't really. She stands, but I didn't see her move more than a few feet today and it looks BAD. I was patting MY other rescue horse, Strider (he's a stunted 2 year old Foundation QH, tiny, tiny guy) and realized when he followed me that HE IS LIMPING TOO, just not even on the same level as Witch.

I am very worried about Witch, and we can't afford a vet call today. I am hoping my husband's check comes in, because I will call that vet out...and hope for good news. I swear, that stupid dog could have killed one horse and permanently injured 2 others! If the vet comes out and Witch is permanently damaged, I am suing that punk for her vet bills along with everything else! UGH! How the heck does this man sleep at night, and I can't?!

Somebody tell me some good news....


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

acorn said:


> I am so so sorry this happened to your pony.
> 
> We lived in heck for several years due to our neighbors dogs. We had goats and ever so often they would manage to get in and kill goats. We had spent thousands on fencing they could not get through but they still got under.
> 
> ...


DISGUSTING that you had to wait so long for this guy to control his dogs...but I'm glad it had a happy ending, at least.


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

I wish I had something magical to say. I struggle with the right words. May you find some comfort seeing the outpouring from folks from all over. May your family feel the thoughts and prayers.


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

If I were you I would be contacting the local paper or news agency and getting your story out to the public right away. The support that you will get through this will be huge and will help you with your fight either by getting this dog put away and having this owner banned from owning dogs again, but also support emotionally to get through this horrific situation.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Oh christ Demon  I'm so so so sorry! giant hugs being sent your way


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> Some of you apparently read just enough to give you something to post to. Please read all of the thread so you can post an informed reply. The dog was picked up by AC.



The dog next to me was picked up by AC after it attacked the collie being walked by an elderly woman. A week or so later he was back. It was on "rabies watch" at the local shelter. I hope in this case, this dog is gone for good and the owner is fined, harshly.


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## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

^^ agreed. I read that it has been picked up but they don't always stay that way.


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## Gaited07 (Jul 25, 2008)

How horrible! I'm so sorry about your pumpkin. 
As a parent I feel for you with your little boy. This is going to be a hard thing to break to him.

I hope AC does something to that dog and his negligent owner.

Lots of (((hugs)))


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## mrstorres2566 (Apr 25, 2013)

This broke my heart. I had to sit here and choke back tears for a handsome pony I never got the pleasure of meeting. RIP Pumpkin. 

Hugs to you and your family!


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## mrstorres2566 (Apr 25, 2013)

mrstorres2566 said:


> This broke my heart. I had to sit here and choke back tears for a handsome pony I never got the pleasure of meeting. RIP Pumpkin.
> 
> Hugs to you and your family!


Oh, and I would buy a donkey. They stomp ANY animal to dust if it enters their area. We had two donkeys at a barn I used to use. The BO always joked they were her protection for her 20 horses. It was no joke though, we frequently found stomped to death carcasses (usually cats and raccoons). One evening we heard a very loud ruckus in the far field, we ran out, the BO with shot gun in hand. The donkeys had killed 3 coyotes, with minimal damage to themselves. I was amazed. Watch donkeys, nothing gets passed them.


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## TrailRiderr (Jul 10, 2012)

So sorry for your loss, Pumpkin was adorable


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I'm so sorry for your loss that is horrible! However, I do need to ask, did a game warden or livestock-wildlife conflict person examine pumpkin?

Dogs have very different killing patterns from say, coyotes. They don't know what they are doing. And generally they don't consume what they kill. If the dog did not have blood on it I'd say that's reasonable grounds to require a proper kill investigation. I know you need to blame this on something right now but I am just thinking it may not be what it seems, even if the dog has a "history"

(I work in the wildlife conflict field)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I hope that didn't sound cold, I just felt it should maybe be mentioned. Best wishes to you and your family
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

SnowCowgirl said:


> I'm so sorry for your loss that is horrible! However, I do need to ask, did a game warden or livestock-wildlife conflict person examine pumpkin?
> 
> Dogs have very different killing patterns from say, coyotes. They don't know what they are doing. And generally they don't consume what they kill. If the dog did not have blood on it I'd say that's reasonable grounds to require a proper kill investigation. I know you need to blame this on something right now but I am just thinking it may not be what it seems, even if the dog has a "history"
> 
> ...


Firstly, Snowcow, I am a forensics major and I did think of all that.

However:

The dog had up to 2 hours to clean himself. Pumpkin looked to be in full rigor by the time his body was removed as well.

Secondly, I could not get near him. He barked, skittered back and adopted an aggressive pose when I walked past. After I saw the body he got out under the fence and was on the road. I could not get near. Just because IDIDNT SEE BLOOD FROM A DISTANCE DOESN'T MEAN THERE WAS NONE.

Next, it was the owner who let the dog in the fence (right as AC pulled up ) who said thre wasnt blood on his dog.

When AC piicked up the body I asked if they would pump his stomach or reference DNA. She said "we arent a crime lab", and that she had no doubt he did it. I had plenty of footprints but no casting material, and even if I did, no paw to compare it to. 

If Im not mistaken, I would guess the dog latched to Pumpkins left hind leg. The meat directly there under the anus was eaten down, and upward through the anus with a bit of white intestine trailing outward past what was left of his tail. I can send you the pics if you want to 
peruse them. 

I imagine he got excited, I doubt he got full from what was missing.I thought about calling AC to see if he shat out bits of my horses fur and tail. Its kind of distinctive...


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

btw I didnt mean that to sound bad either but I guess it could. didnt mean it that way. its just theres this weird divide of trying to question and find evidence, like we are trained, vs shock of the event hitting at home.

No lab to go to even if I could have sampled things, and the AC isnt going to do it.

Its too much circumstantial evidence even without DNA to deny that he, in all probability did it. There was no call for him to be in my pasture and the road is far from where Pumpkin died. I doubt smell brought him, and Id have expected a truly wild animal to eat more than what was missing from such a fresh corpse. That bit in my non professional opinion of course.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

So incredibly sorry for your horrifying loss.

A rottweiler across the street killed a couple of our goats when I was growing up. Courts didn't do anything. Few months later, the dog got out again, killed one of my goats and then came at me when I stumbled across the scene (I was 12). I ran for my life, jumped/climbed a 5 foot field fence, then got in my house with him right on my heels. Called my mom, who called the police, who came and took the dog. EVEN WITH THAT, still had to go through the courts and go to trial and present a case that the dog was too dangerous to be allowed to go back to their property. Dog was deemed dangerous, but they allowed the owners to take the dog to a "properly secured location" .... hope your state laws are a little better than Oregon's. Either way, don't let it drop - don't allow the owners or AC to browbeat you - insist that the dog CANNOT return. Go to trial if you need to. Like others have said, the dog will escalate the behavior. And I like the idea of the donkey.


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## equine24 (Aug 7, 2013)

OMG, i'm so sorry you have to go through this. I am a dog lover too, but if its that dangerous something had to be done. I don't like when I have to explain things to my son because someone else was negligent.


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## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

It sounds like the dog, though it is kinda strange that he ate on him. He must have been at least hungry. I agree with getting a donkey or even a llama. I seen one of my llamas nearly kill a pit lab mix one time. I if she had about 100 more feet of pasture she would have. They don't bother my dogs though. This dog was getting a little close to her herd. But the point is, if it was coyotes, then that will help a lot, and if it was the dog, and ac can't keep him and turns him back over, which is what they seem to do a lot, then again, that would help. I think a small donkey would be the better choice in your case. Or, a Great Pyrenees. I know that at this point the thought of getting another pet so soon after losing a beloved family member is rather appalling, but for the safety of your other animals I would definitely recommend getting a guardian animal. Even if you have a rifle leaned against your door, you don't always know when something is happening.

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss. He seemed like a sweet pony and I'm sure your little boy is heartbroken.


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## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

A donkey is a good idea and sweet donkeys can be as nice to little boys as sweet ponies.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Discussed the donkey possibility with hubby, and he is not amused. He thinks it would kill our pups. I say theyd learn to dodge, but he counter suggested that he would prefer another dog. Someone here mentioned the great pyranees. 

I looked it up and there didn't seem to be any recent local listings. Cost varies from about 500-1600 per dog, so we will have to save awhile and wait for a good ad to pop up.

Witch is walking juat slightly better today. Im worried. Strider looks almost worse. Crossing my fingers we can get a vet out tomorrow. :/ Im also going to have DH call AC to ask the status of that dog and see if we can get a report or something for court.

DD isnt handling this well. When I called her last night she cried again and said she cried at school today. She wants to breed Pumpkins dam for a similarly colored foal. I told her that might be difficult (pumpkin was silver bay, even if I found a good registered stud, color is bottom of the list!). She thinks if Mama Pony was here she would have protected her son. Gah. Its such a mess for her, and she was clearly not comforted by her bio dads talk of heaven...I tried to explain, in more of an energy/buddhist type way that pumpkin isnt truly gone, but its a tough concept when you're 11 and grieving.


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## mrstorres2566 (Apr 25, 2013)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Discussed the donkey possibility with hubby, and he is not amused. He thinks it would kill our pups. I say theyd learn to dodge, but he counter suggested that he would prefer another dog. Someone here mentioned the great pyranees.
> 
> I looked it up and there didn't seem to be any recent local listings. Cost varies from about 500-1600 per dog, so we will have to save awhile and wait for a good ad to pop up.
> 
> ...


Actually when you introduce a guard donkey to your herd, you include the dogs. They associate familiar animals and do not attack them. My previous barn had 4 dogs and 7 barn cats that neither donkey attacked. (They never attempted to harm any of the chickens or goats either, as they considered them part of their herd.) Donkeys protect anything familiar on the property, and only attack strange animals, or animals posing a threat to their herd. 

You can look up guard donkey breeders. They will give you valuable info on how to introduce your current animals as their herd. And you will probably get one cheaper than the puppy you are looking at. Hope this helps!


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## Barrelracingllamalover (May 16, 2013)

And a puppy takes forever to really get to be a good guard dog. I agree with above. My donkey has never chased my dogs, but I've seen him scatter other dogs. Great Pyrenees are good guards, I loved mine, but like I said, you've got 6 months+ until its big enough to do much protecting.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Barrelracingllamalover said:


> And a puppy takes forever to really get to be a good guard dog. I agree with above. My donkey has never chased my dogs, but I've seen him scatter other dogs. Great Pyrenees are good guards, I loved mine, but like I said, you've got 6 months+ until its big enough to do much protecting.


Lol I told hubby that too. We'd have to rely on our other dogs ('bout three months old!) for "protection" in the interim. 

He says he just really doesn't want another equine around. I can't really blame him for that, but...TBH I don't want any other dogs around! He doesn't pick up after them =/


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, at the risk of sounding callous or uncaring....you do have one less equine than you had before. I'd lightly pressure hubby to at least _consider_ a donkey or a mule (they can both be ridden/driven too), though stay away from the minis.

They can and will defend your property (and your animals) with a vengeance.

Just as an example, even though the cougar was already dead, most equines would shy away and refuse to approach it due to the strong smell of predator and the smell of blood, but this mule proceeded to attack the body anyway.


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## mrstorres2566 (Apr 25, 2013)

smrobs said:


> Well, at the risk of sounding callous or uncaring....you do have one less equine than you had before. I'd lightly pressure hubby to at least _consider_ a donkey or a mule (they can both be ridden/driven too), though stay away from the minis.
> 
> They can and will defend your property (and your animals) with a vengeance.
> 
> Just as an example, even though the cougar was already dead, most equines would shy away and refuse to approach it due to the strong smell of predator and the smell of blood, but this mule proceeded to attack the body anyway.


And as you can see there are two dogs in the background of the first pic, which the mule ignored and only went after the predator.


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## Tarpan (May 6, 2012)

Great Pyrenees rescue groups often have working dogs available. That route might be a better option for you then getting a pup from a breeder.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

I would love a mule! Given genetics, do a majority seem to maintain the same anti-predator drive?

My husband likes the rescue idea with respect to the dog. As we get older, puppies seem more pita than awesome! We will be keeping an eye out. Thanks for the tip!

Does it make me a bad person to root for that mule in those pics? "Yeah! good for you, Mr Mule! Show that (dead) cat who's boss!"


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Does it make me a bad person to root for that mule in those pics? "Yeah! good for you, Mr Mule! Show that (dead) cat who's boss!"


Nope. I was thinking the same thing.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

demonwolfmoon said:


> I would love a mule! Given genetics, do a majority seem to maintain the same anti-predator drive?
> 
> Does it make me a bad person to root for that mule in those pics? "Yeah! good for you, Mr Mule! Show that (dead) cat who's boss!"


Yes, the majority of them maintain the protective drive of the donkey parent. LOL, I've got a young mule in my barn right now that will charge the fence if one of my dogs even gets close to it.

Nope, not a bad person at all, I was doing the same thing LOL.


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## acorn (Nov 27, 2012)

smrobs said:


> Yes, the majority of them maintain the protective drive of the donkey parent. LOL, I've got a young mule in my barn right now that will charge the fence if one of my dogs even gets close to it.
> 
> Nope, not a bad person at all, I was doing the same thing LOL.


 My now deceased mule would get all dogs, mine included, when he could.
He would also get cats, goats, etc. He did mellow out in his old age but before that....you had to watch him.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Wow! I posted an ad on craigslist with Pumpkins story and a warning about loose dogs....and I have already gotten one email from a lady who says her mini was killed THE SAME WAY, and that she is scared to be in her yard because the dog still lives next door, has killed other dogs etc, AC won't step in...and her she is scared to so anything for her safety because her neighbors may REACT. 

I wonder how many local people have had this happen???


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

demonwolfmoon said:


> Wow! I posted an ad on craigslist with Pumpkins story and a warning about loose dogs....and I have already gotten one email from a lady who says her mini was killed THE SAME WAY, and that she is scared to be in her yard because the dog still lives next door, has killed other dogs etc, AC won't step in...and her she is scared to so anything for her safety because her neighbors may REACT.
> 
> I wonder how many local people have had this happen???


I'm going to guess that none with guns and a willingness to use them have had this happen, or at least not more than once. Around here loose dogs do not live long, the cattlemen will shoot them in a heartbeat.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I'm going to guess that none with guns and a willingness to use them have had this happen, or at least not more than once. Around here loose dogs do not live long, the cattlemen will shoot them in a heartbeat.


Its illegal to shoot it if its not in your yard, so said AC. 

So theres a narrow window there between hearing a noise, reacting, seeing the scene and shooting the perpetrator. And thats if your gun is loaded and ready. So if you miss the window, dead pony and dog running home to kill another day. 

Sad thing is, hubby had gone outside when the puppies went nuts that morning, and he didntsee anything. He qualifies expert and can probably shoot the wings off a fly.


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## LindyPhoebeRuby (Aug 29, 2013)

I am soo sorry to hear this. That's terrible!   

I really hope that they either put this dog down or get him the heck away from you and your horses!!!!


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## LittlemanRob (Sep 14, 2010)

SnowCowgirl said:


> I'm so sorry for your loss that is horrible! However, I do need to ask, did a game warden or livestock-wildlife conflict person examine pumpkin?
> 
> Dogs have very different killing patterns from say, coyotes. They don't know what they are doing. And generally they don't consume what they kill. If the dog did not have blood on it I'd say that's reasonable grounds to require a proper kill investigation. I know you need to blame this on something right now but I am just thinking it may not be what it seems, even if the dog has a "history"
> 
> ...


I tend to agree with this. I may not be experienced with horses but I know dogs very well. An aggressive or highly prey driven domestic dog may kill animals but its rare for them to eat them. It is very possible that this dog smelled blood and came to investigate. It may have heard the coyotes as well. The horse does not need to be rotting or any of that. A dog can smell fresh blood from a long ways away. Curiosity would drive it to investigate it.

I'd lean towards a pack of coyotes. Hamstringing, killing and eating their prey is a pretty standard pattern for them. I highly doubt a domesticated dog is going to find, stalk, hamstring and partially eat a mini horse. The pattern just doesn't fit. I find it hard to accept a solitary dog did this. Minis although small are still larger and heavier than a dog. They can run longer and no doubt would kick to defend itself. Whatever attacked your mini was determined and didn't do it for sport. It was hungry and killed to eat. Coyotes, wolves, or large predator cat is my guess.

I have a 130 lb bulldog who runs and plays with my mini stallion. If it came down to a real battle, the mini would win hands down. He can out run and out muscle my dog no problem, as big and as strong as he is. Unless the mini was lame or ill, a normal dog just doesn't have the stamina to keep up in the long run. A hungry wolf or pack of coyotes is a different story.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

A pack of coyotes ignored two sets of newborn piglets 15 or 20 feet away? 

And ate only one hamstring?

....

....

No offense but I went to the trial. This dog had two other AC incidents in the TWO WEEKS PRIOR TO PUMPKINS DEATH. He was escalating.

The rest of that is just really speculation, but for giggles, I will look around for info on a big cat or um, wild wolf presence in my area. I find that reading really helps me learn!


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

LittlemanRob said:


> I tend to agree with this. I may not be experienced with horses but I know dogs very well.
> 
> I'd lean towards a pack of coyotes. Hamstringing, killing and eating their prey is a pretty standard pattern for them. I highly doubt a domesticated dog is going to find, stalk, hamstring and partially eat a mini horse.* The pattern just doesn't fit. I find it hard to accept a solitary dog did this. Minis although small are still larger and heavier than a dog. *They can run longer and no doubt would kick to defend itself. Whatever attacked your mini was determined and didn't do it for sport. It was hungry and killed to eat. *Coyotes, wolves, or large predator cat is my guess.*
> 
> *A hungry wolf or pack of coyotes is a different story.*


Oh and PS:

1)* Pumpkin was a stunted shetland. If I had to guess, he weighed...MAYBE 200 pounds. He was VERY SMALL, and still built like a baby, deerlike.

He had deformed rear legs and front legs. Still think he can outrun a stupid dog? *

He tried his best...I saw the tracks. I saw where the dog grabbed a leg and was walking sideways while Pumpkin struggled. Want pictures? Because we have them. We showed them to the judge, at the trial. 

2) A dog of that breed almost killed my mother and aunt. They were a VERY long time in the hospital receiving skin grafts, and surgeries which didn't all take. *Ask her whether or not it was a pack of coyotes that took her breasts, parts of her forearms and her calves. *Ask her how fun it is to wear long sleeved shirts in the desert.

3) My husband corrects me and says there were THREE AC calls on this dog in the two weeks prior. The ones I remember are the one where he jumped on some guy, and the other where he was growling barking and being aggressive. He was chasing my horses. My other three were limping like crazy the day after the attack.

4) I'm still planning to look up wolves, and big cats in my area today, but I'll tell you right now, the only plausible idea you provided was the "pack of coyotes", and again....newborn piglets squealing their heads off x a lot....obnoxious running horses, hmmm.....


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

According to the government website, there is one wolf that has been seen in CA, at least respect to gray wolves: 
Frequently Asked Questions about Wolves - California Department of Fish and Wildlife
Wolves in California

With respect to mountain lions, a couple were seen in Redlands, which is over an hour drive away from my house:

REDLANDS: Two sightings of mountain lions reported (Updated)

The above is 2013. Before that, the only sighting I can find within reason is in 2007.

*************
Looks like there were some coyote activities LAST YEAR within the county:
Three Rare Coyote Attacks in 10 Days Spark Worries - ABC News

But not seeing anything nearby, recent, or to do with livestock loss.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thread.

I urge you not to blame dogs of this breed for what happened - There are bad people that make bad dogs.

Are any of your horses dominant, or aggressive towards animals like dogs? If so I would suggest turning that one out with the others if you haven't already. A mule works just as well, as does a Llama, if you're looking into that.

My little mare goes out whenever I feel the herd is threatened. She will stomp anything that threatens her companions.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

SorrelHorse said:


> I'm sorry I didn't read the whole thread.
> 
> I urge you not to blame dogs of this breed for what happened - There are bad people that make bad dogs.
> 
> ...


Sorrelhorse, I don't blame that breed of dogs, I blame stupid owners who don't know what kind of dogs they have, how to handle them, or how to keep them contained. That includes the one that attacked my mom. 

As for the dog thing....I'm surprised my Draft filly didn't kill it! I've seen her back dogs down before, and at least once she tried to stomp a cat. I guess she grew out of it? =( Heck, she even kicked our dog recently... or maybe that was Witch??? Still working on convincing hubby properly to let me get a dog deterring equine.


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## LittlemanRob (Sep 14, 2010)

In all honesty I didn't read every single post in the thread. I didn't know he was stunted with malformed legs. Its probably very true he couldn't outrun or out maneuver a dog.

At the same time, the weakest animal in the herd is the one that gets singled out with most predators. I still think its a stretch for a domestic dog.

I've rescued more than enough pitbulls during my life. I've seen the damage they receive during fights. I've seen bait dogs with their faces half torn off and their ears gone. I've never seen them hamstring another dog. They don't fight like that. Face and neck mostly. Mostly of course because the other dog needs to defend itself and they have to use their muzzle to do it. Pitbulls are typically neck and head biters. Pitbulls have been used for a long time to hunt and kill rats and other small vermin. They grab the neck or head and shake to break the neck or back. A decently fed domestic dog doesn't usually eat what it kills. The fact that your little horse was partially eaten indicates to me that whatever killed it was very hungry. 

Ignoring the piglets is a mystery. A much easier target than a weak horse. If it were coyotes or the dog, why didn't they attack the piglets? Are they behind fencing that would discourage a 4 legged predator?

I am very sorry to hear this has happened. We have a coyote problem in my area. This is why I have surveillance cameras on my pastures and in my barn. If coyotes are skulking about I will camp out in the loft with my rifle and shoot them on sight. I hang the dead ones in a tree close to the fence line and the others get the message and usually I won't have them around for a few months.


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## JulieG (Jun 25, 2013)

Not sure if you ever decided but Auction Horse Rescue (LA area) has a 6 year old ride-able donkey that's up for adoption. He's pretty adorable!


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## VickiRose (Jul 13, 2013)

I agree that pit bulls do tend to go for the throat, but if its vicious and possibly hungry its not going to care how it catches its prey. How do I know? Experience of dogs getting into sheep and killing. A couple of times it was pit bulls and pit bull crosses, and we saw them doing it. In ten minutes they killed or maimed over twenty sheep. There were only 2 dogs. Ten minutes is how long it took to drive home, get the gun and kill them. Horses are much better able to defend themselves than sheep, but a small shetland with leg problems would have had little chance. As for why the horse and not the pigs? Horses will run, and a running animal can encourage a dog to give chase and catch/kill it. Also if the sow was with the piglets, the dog would have had a much tougher game on its hands.
I'm glad you are fighting to put a stop to this dog. 
And I'm sure you still miss Pumpkin, so hugs to you for being able to discuss it at all.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Look, honestly, just as she has started to perhaps move forward (it has been only weeks), you come along and decide to question all of this? Really? What possible constructive reason could you have? There has been a trial. The dogs in question are repeat offenders. Whether or not you, (in Canada and the OP is in Cali-WORLDS apart as far as what animals are around....)choose to believe it or not really makes no difference. I do not believe she asked WHAT killed the pony, now did she? So that is not open for debate.


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## LittlemanRob (Sep 14, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> Littleman-Op KNOWS what killed her pony. That really is NOT the question, and honestly, just as she has started to perhaps move forward (it has been only weeks), you come along and decide to question all of this? Really? What possible constructive reason could you have? There has been a trial. The dogs in question are repeat offenders. Whether or not you, (in Canada and the OP is in Cali-WORLDS apart as far as what animals are around....)choose to believe it or not really makes no difference. I do not believe she asked WHAT killed the pony, now did she? .




We may be worlds apart as far as some animals are concerned but there are many predators that are common in most parts of North America. Coyotes being one of those.

I am simply trying to point out that the OP might have a different problem than what she thinks it is. While she focuses on one, there could be an ongoing danger that may be threatening her existing animals, if the one she is focusing on is not the animal that attacked her horse.

There is no need to get upset with me over this. Why aren't you going after anyone else who suggested the dog may have not done it?


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