# First Trail ride THIS WAS AN ADVERNTURE so is this a good idea?



## kfreker (Sep 26, 2013)

So today i went with a friend on a tail ride lets just say it was an adventure. Ill make this short and hopefully some good advice comes from it. As soon as we left my barn and walked maybe a property over he FREAKED (he is really barn and buddy sour) and knew we were leaving the barn, so he would always just turn around and not go forward untill i got off him and walked him forward and he was still a little skittish. We then got to the trail and i had to have my friend hold him while i got on and she had to lead both horses and then after maybe 2 mins let me take the reins and my horse would be okay and keep going straight no problems for about 20 mins untill he realized he was going the wrong way and would turn around and back up and not go forward. i tryed on my own to get him to go forward by giving him a good kick but that just led to him rearing (first time no bigyy...not lol) so she had to lead us again untill he was okay and kept going on his own. Another thing is he was sweating like it was 100 degress outside ( like white foam) when it was only 50. It was deff a nervous sweat and his poop was really wet. So my plan is to show him its okay to leave the barn and his friends by walking him off property and reward him with treats every time we get farther and farther away. would that work? does anyone else have any ideas!?


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## kfreker (Sep 26, 2013)

duplicate post deleted


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## kfreker (Sep 26, 2013)

Duplicate post deleted


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

first off....three of the same threads on three different forums is unnecessary. 
that being said, 

im not one for giving my horse treats, at all. 

has this horse ever been on the trails? if not then its perfectly understandable that hed be nervous. I would recommend ponying him a couple times first, with NO rider on his back so he can look around and take his time. 
the last thing he, or you, needs is to go out again when YOU know hes going to be nervous, which in turn makes YOU nervous, because that will just make him more nervous.

what I do with my youngins, is pony them a few times, (or use them as pack horses) with an older steady eddy horse, then take them on short easy trails, again with steady eddy horses and just build up their confidence slowly.

imo if you go the treats reward for going outside route your going to get more problems. hes going to start thinking every time he goes out of the barn or out on the trail hes going to get treats and hes going to be anticipating and expecting them.

that will lead to him possibly completely balking unless he gets treats, even going onto a trailer etc. 

but that's just me.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Work his booty off by the barn and only (and I mean get a good sweat going along with the huffing and puffing) let him rest away from the barn. He'll soon realize it's not so bad away and a lot of work at the barn.


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## Ian McDonald (Aug 24, 2011)

kfreker said:


> So today i went with a friend on a tail ride lets just say it was an adventure. Ill make this short and hopefully some good advice comes from it. As soon as we left my barn and walked maybe a property over he FREAKED (he is really barn and buddy sour) and knew we were leaving the barn, so he would always just turn around and not go forward untill i got off him and walked him forward and he was still a little skittish. We then got to the trail and i had to have my friend hold him while i got on and she had to lead both horses and then after maybe 2 mins let me take the reins and my horse would be okay and keep going straight no problems for about 20 mins untill he realized he was going the wrong way and would turn around and back up and not go forward. i tryed on my own to get him to go forward by giving him a good kick but that just led to him rearing (first time no bigyy...not lol) so she had to lead us again untill he was okay and kept going on his own. Another thing is he was sweating like it was 100 degress outside ( like white foam) when it was only 50. It was deff a nervous sweat and his poop was really wet. So my plan is to show him its okay to leave the barn and his friends by walking him off property and reward him with treats every time we get farther and farther away. would that work? does anyone else have any ideas!?


Yes, it's a great idea taking him for walks. What you're experiencing is sometimes called barn-sourness, sometimes herd-boundness, but it's a real and normal phenomenon called *separation anxiety*. All horses feel it to one degree or another and need experience in being taken away from home and having it be a good deal for them. If you can lead him and remain confident yourself when things happen, do it. There are some methods of training where they stay on the ground developing a horse, taking them for walks etc for a long time before they ever ride them and create beautiful, balanced, educated and above-all _reliable_ horses. You're in good company, with your idea.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

You already know the answer. That he is "barn and buddy sour." You are correct in guessing that the sweating and loose stool is part of that, too.

So, you can keep trying to getting him to go forward and to behave as he should. Eventually, you should see improvement. You will probably figure some things out as you go.

Or, you send him to a trainer and go work with the horse and trainer while it's there.

Bottom line: Don't get hurt.


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## kfreker (Sep 26, 2013)

sorry i didnt know where to exactly put this thread.....


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Take him on walks. Show him the world until he sees it's not so scary. Let him graze somewhere during the walk to attach positive feelings to leaving the barn. Nothing wrong with treats either, as long as you make sure not to give him one when HE stops, but only when YOU stop him. I love stopping a horse and then giving a treat when they obey promptly, because it makes a very willing stopper later on. Don't try to trail ride until he is more chilled.
My mare also had anxiety being out by herself in a world she didn't really know (but was still amazingly obedient), she got more relaxed over the months and now, over a year later, she is quite calm and relaxed about it (and doesn't poop 20 times per ride any more). It takes time, be patient and practice.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

you kind of set yourself up for failure here a bit. If the horse is barn/buddy sour, you need to work on that first. What groundwork have you done? How is he to handle on the ground?

it seems obvious to me that this horse does not trust or accept your leadership. You are submissive to him, trying to take him away from his herd, where he feels safe, why would he listen? 

this type of situation, taking a horse that doesn't trust or respect you away from its herd, can end very badly. I think you need to back up, do some trust and respect building ground work, and build up to trails as his trust and respect for you grows.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

^^^This
If you don't work on first getting your horses trust you stand a good chance of making a bad situation even worse and getting yourself hurt too
We always ride our young horses out with a solid reliable experienced horse until they feel confident in the world outside of the barn and then begin solo riding by taking them on their own for just short distances to begin with and increasing as they feel secure with themselves


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

CheyRider said:


> Take him on walks. Show him the world until he sees it's not so scary. Let him graze somewhere during the walk to attach positive feelings to leaving the barn. Nothing wrong with treats either, as long as you make sure not to give him one when HE stops, but only when YOU stop him. I love stopping a horse and then giving a treat when they obey promptly, because it makes a very willing stopper later on. Don't try to trail ride until he is more chilled.
> My mare also had anxiety being out by herself in a world she didn't really know (but was still amazingly obedient), she got more relaxed over the months and now, over a year later, she is quite calm and relaxed about it (and doesn't poop 20 times per ride any more). It takes time, be patient and practice.



This whole thing is counterproductive. Handwalking a horse that is barn sour teaches them nothing except they don't have to do what they are asked or told to. And treats is also counterproductive in instances that come from horse being sour.


OP. Main thing here is you are not a good enough rider to be going out on trail ride with a horse that is going to test you. Some horses won't. Most will. If they feel/see you are inexperienced, a poor rider or weak?

They are going to try you. 

Get some lessons, both for handling on ground and riding as those are going to be the basis for your riding better and being able to handle this.

But this horse had your number and babying him by treats and long walks on the beach type thing are not going to help you here.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Take him on walks. Show him the world until he sees it's not so scary. Let him graze somewhere during the walk to attach positive feelings to leaving the barn. Nothing wrong with treats either


 a horse that gets worked up enough away from the barn to be dripping sweat at a walk is not going to stop for a bite to eat. He is extremely worked up. he does not feel safe. his herd is where he feels safe and the underling(rider) that he doesn't trust or respect has taken that away. Its remarkable that he didn't bolt for home or buck his rider off, as I have seen many times in similar situations. Aside from that, I agree with Palomine.

People need to stop "Disney-fying" things. you cant feed your horse some treats and have it 'luv' you forever. A horse NEEDS you to be a leader, not a loyal follower. they are a prey animal that lives in herds. someone has to be the leader in the relationship. So it breaks down to two choices: lead or follow.
Following will result in a horse that starts disobeying more and more. Occasionally you can still do some basic things with the horse, but issues will start showing up. Barn sour at first. Rearing as refusal maybe. It typically ends with a very unhappy/hurt owner and a spoiled horse.
Or you can lead. Build respect and trust, make yourself worth following, and end up with a willing partner. You don't lead with treats. Occasionally they have their uses. Typically I don't use them. A lead mare doesn't coerce her herd into following using a carrot.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Palomine said:


> This whole thing is counterproductive. Handwalking a horse that is barn sour teaches them nothing except they don't have to do what they are asked or told to.


I don't see how this is the case. Seems as though walking teaches the horse to move with the person, and builds trust - and vice versa. Worked that way for me, at least. (Though the walks were intended for rehab after an injury, so I couldn't have ridden her anyway.)

It's also not teaching them that they don't have to do what they're asked to do, because what they are being asked to do is walk with the human.



> OP. Main thing here is you are not a good enough rider to be going out on trail ride with a horse that is going to test you. Some horses won't. Most will. If they feel/see you are inexperienced, a poor rider or weak?


That's the other part of the "leadership" (though I hate using the word) thing. You expect the horse to do what it is asked to do, but you also have to learn not to ask for something that the horse is likely to refuse, or which either of you can't do competently. Otherwise you teach the horse that 1) it can refuse; and 2) it probably knows better than the human.


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

I didn't say wave a carrot in front of his nose to make him follow you. I said nothing wrong with treats when horse shows obedience. 
I have nothing but good experiences from walking horses on the trail until they get more confident. It is much easier for them to see you leading when you actually LEAD them, walk ahead of them and show them how you are not scared of things. I find it much more useful and easier for the horse to understand than doing groundwork in the arena and then mounting and going out on the trail, expecting the horse to be cool since you showed who the boss is...
I'm not Disney-fying things because I give treats and prefer a gentle and patient approach to horses, and it doesn't make me a follower to my horses. Seriously, do you think people that take walks with horses and reward them with treats all get misbehaved horses that can all do just the basic things, and only if they feel like it? Goodness...


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> I'm not Disney-fying things because I give treats and prefer a gentle and patient approach to horses


I wasn't directing that comment specifically at you, its more a rant in general. Far too often people are babying their horses and problems that are very simple to fix come up. I have a friend like this and its impossible. It gets to the point where its a big problem and all of a sudden she's so upset and cant figure out how to fix it. I am as gentle as possible with my horses, and as firm as necessary. I know horses are many peoples friend/baby/pet, but first and foremost they should be treated like a horse.

I have owned many horses, several of which I was told were problem horses. past the first week, I have never, ever had a problem with a horse being barn or buddy sour. I don't have to take them for trail walks, I get them riding good at home, then I ride out with no hesitation. I can do that on my three year old, or on some of the spoiled saddle horses I've retrained, or a horse that's never ridden out before.

I'm not a great trainer, but I know that respect and trust are important. You know a funny side effect of all this? My horses run up to me in the pasture and put their noses in the halter, begging to go to work.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

BlueSpark said:


> I have owned many horses, several of which I was told were problem horses. past the first week, I have never, ever had a problem with a horse being barn or buddy sour. I don't have to take them for trail walks, I get them riding good at home, then I ride out with no hesitation. I can do that on my three year old, or on some of the spoiled saddle horses I've retrained, or a horse that's never ridden out before.


I would bet, though, that the reason YOU can do this is because you HAVE owned many horses, and so have the skill to correct behaviors from the saddle, and project that confidence. 

Now if I understood the OP, s/he isn't nearly that experienced, and so wouldn't know for sure what to do, and would project a contagious nervousness. Really, the walking is (or at least was in my case) as much a benefit to the human as to the horse.


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

BlueSpark, I can totally agree with what you write, a horse should be a horse and treated as such, they don't make good pet dogs. It felt like you were directly relating to my post (since you quoted me), I'm glad you clarified.
It's great you never even have this problem. I had horses that were slightly "barn sour", but mostly they were just nervous about being taken from a safe place into a world full of potentially dangerous things and creatures, without their horse buddies. I wouldn't call this a problem, either, but I just prefer to ease them into being out with me by walking them. It's just part of their groundwork (actually, it's most of their groundwork), and sometimes I walk them instead of riding just because I feel like it, they enjoy it, and you can do fun, trust-building stuff like jumping ditches together... they all relax when it becomes a routine to be with just that human to rely on.
I'm sure you can be a great leader for your horse in the arena and if they trust you enough, they will do anything, no matter how scary. But that doesn't work for everybody. I don't think most people have it in them to be such a natural leader, and if the thread starter had it in her, she wouldn't have this problem with her horse. Making it a routine to be out on the trail walking together might be an easier and more practical way for her to get her horse's trust than asking her to just be a better leader in the arena. From what she wrote, it doesn't sound like the horse is downright panicky or dangerous to handle away from the barn, so her plan including walking and treats is a realistic option. I would put a rope halter on him, though, for better control, should he start acting up more. I'd also take a carrot stick or whatever you use for groundwork to be able to set boundaries better.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't have a problem with hand leading a horse in a situation like this - we often took out young horses out on walks before they were old enough to be ridden - got them well acquainted with the world.
I also have no problem with giving a treat as a reward after they have done as asked


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

When Mia was so afraid she would melt down within 100 yards...I hand walked her. It was much easier for me - a newbie - to see how she was reacting when I could watch her from the ground, and it was much easier to deal with her if she did melt down with fear. By the time we were walking 2-3 miles, she was less fearful.

About 50% of that lessened fear transferred over into the saddle.

There is a difference between a horse who doesn't feel like going, and a horse who is terrified of going. So the question becomes, "Is she barn sour because she isn't in the mood to go out, or because she is afraid of the big outdoors?" I tend to think foamy sweat and diarrhea indicate fear, not stubbornness.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

My horses used to have the same problem. You need to give them something to do to take their minds off their friends. I personally wouldn't do the whole treat thing, just because it is a bribe - and bribes don't work on horses and you really aren't accomplishing anything by bribing them.
Lead ro ride him away from the barn and if there is grass somewhere, let him eat for a few minutes. Then start groundwork him for a few minutes and if he tries to be with his friends, back him. Swing your leadrope hard and back him up. But I don't suggest that if you have hardware on your leadrope, because it isn't helping in the teaching of the horse - it may actually cause him to be afraid, and you do not want that.
Once you get on na dhe is still being a butt, use an extr rope or the extra off of your reins and use it like a romel. First use a warning far away from his withithers - touch both your shoulders with the romel and make sound so he can hear it. If he hasn't gone, get closer to his withers, and slap your waist or thighs. If he still hasn't gone, he doesn't have any chances left - and now is when you slap his withers. First, start off with a soft slap, any speed. If he still isn't going, continue the same speed, but increase the pressure of the slapping.
This works very well with my horse and I do recommend it. My horse, as soon as he hears that first warning he is done messing around and he l is listening like there is no tomorrow.

If he wants to back up, try facing him towards his friends and back up. Or if he really insists on backing up away from his trail buddies, back him up quite a bit then stop.

If he doesn't stop backing up or if he doesn't listen to the romel technique or goes forward in the wrong direction, do the emergency stop, but don't get off. Reach up and pull his nose to your knee and hold it there until he stops movin, then hold it for a few seconds longer and then release. Then to the same to the other side and if you need to, do this twice on both sides. This just gets control of his motions and stops moving his feet. He may keep moving in a little circle with his nose o your knee, but just hold it there until he stops moving, and the first few times when you do this, then as soon as he stops moving release. But when you go to flex the other side, hold it to your knee until HE gives his head. You shouldn't hold it there and then give it back without him doing anything. You want him to give his head to you. This helps give you control, show who's boss, and simmer him down.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

CheyRider said:


> I'm sure you can be a great leader for your horse in the arena...


FTM, some of us don't even have arenas  Or indeed, enough level ground to use as one.


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## kfreker (Sep 26, 2013)

i just thought i would clarify i few things in the post that i think got mistaken. First i am a dude not a chick.. i dont have the amount of experience like most of you do on here so relax. I am leasing this horse. I was told by the people im leasing from when they got the horse the previous owner rode her to our local western fair and back with out a problem. I thought i could go on a trial ride no problem. I wasent alone when this happened i was with an experienced rider who has been riding for 15yrs. She even said that when he got the way he did he would of done it to anyone..it wasent my fault. She even got on him and tried and couldn't control him. I have been doing ground work with him as well, and he does listen to me and knows im the leader im 100% sure of that.. And i what i ment about the treats was is it okay to reward him when he does something good. Im not stupid and naive about this whole thing. I have been going on walks with him off the property and letting him graze a little. The first day only went a little ways and i mean about 20 strides till he was getting anxioty. so we slowly walked back to the barn. The next day we got further and on our way back to the barn he wasent even in a hurry didnt try to walk infront of me or anything. The next time we went even further! untill he got spooked by a truck shifting into gear, i then showed him i wasent scareed and talked to him and he was still scared but knew i was next to him and we walked back.... i hope this clears things up...any other advice would be good.


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## CheyRider (Nov 3, 2013)

Oh, I just wanted to ask how things are going for you, kfreker... and sorry about making a girl out of you, haha! It sounds like you are making progress with him, awsome!


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## kfreker (Sep 26, 2013)

thanks chey, its a good feeling when you put alot of time and patients into something and it starts to pay off.


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## Chickenoverlord (Apr 30, 2013)

You have an advantage over me, lol. Your a guy, naturally easier for a horse to respect, IMO. I'm a petite girl that got stuck training a super hot, crazy off the rocker horse. Something that works when they start to use the panicky, reacting side of their brain is to hop off and get the feet moving. Forwards, backwards, left and right. Thank you, Clinton Anderson! It really does work, especially the backing. Also works to get them to stand still while mounting.


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