# So Frustrated



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Sometimes it could be body soreness. You might try a good chiropractor and massage therapist and see if it helps her.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

This is normal.....I fix one thing and something else falls apart....sigh....it's the cycle of learning I'm afraid....if it wasn't a challenge it would be boring and we wouldn't do it......I'm getting together with a trainer next week I hope....my horse is 'finished' and I still manage to ****** it all up


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Wow okay... while I read your post I became frustrated. This horse is trying really hard for you. Obviously you aren't giving her enough support, or you're ignoring the telltale signs that something may be off. Could be the angles in her feet, a strain, tightness in her shoulders, her back, etc. Check all of that. 

My gelding drops or pops his shoulders. I make sure I'm using my reins proactively and my legs, and then I either use a crop or my foot to gently ask him to yield his shoulders over. When he's straight I give a release and we continue on. 

It's going to be a work in progress. Do not get frustrated or angry with your horse. It takes a lot of work to be straight. Dropping or popping the shoulder is an easier feat. 

Adjust your attitude, please!


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

She got a massage last month. We were thinking ulcers so she got ulcer guard and nothing changed. Got her teeth done, gave her a week off... nothing. 

I do know that my saddle doesn't fit, but the new one wont be here for another 8 weeks. I'm riding in the saddle that fits her best, but still not a great fit. She has been ridden in this saddle from the start, so if it was impairing her in any way, wouldn't I have had the problems several months ago? And massage lady found no soreness, just tight hamstrings.

@Sky- I have tried counter bend, then keeping the whip pressed into that shoulder, but she just doesn't care. I would be happy to give a release if there was a change, but there's not. And I know that she usually trys hard, but it doesn't feel like she's trying hard _anymore_. I know that being frustrated is wrong, but I can't exactly just turn it off- that's why I'm working toward putting her in training with someone who knows what they're doing. Weekly lessons aren't cutting it any more. 

I also know that this is hard work, but that was the point. I can't just stick with easy work and expect to improve. With harder work, I don't expect her to get it right away, I don't even expect her to get it after a month, but after 2+ months of working on it, I expect a little bit, or even a step in the right direction.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Ashsunnyeventer said:


> I do know that my saddle doesn't fit, but the new one wont be here for another 8 weeks. I'm riding in the saddle that fits her best, but still not a great fit. She has been ridden in this saddle from the start, so if it was impairing her in any way, wouldn't I have had the problems several months ago? And massage lady found no soreness, just tight hamstrings.


There is a part of the problem right there. A poor fitting saddle does not allow the horse to move freely. 

I thought the same thing, but now my horse has muscle atrophy on one shoulder. I immediately stopped using that saddle and bought him one that fits (along with a saddle evaluator we found one that fits both him and I) and then made a chiropractic. farrier, and vet appointment to see if there was something else going on.

Why will it take that long for your new saddle?


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

So you have an idea- this is what we were consistantly getting. A lot was fixed before she reached her "meltdown point", but now I'd be happy if we could even gat this anymore.






And when we go to shows, she's still a little tense, but this video is still better than what I have now. this was just a few weeks ago, before the lateral work started.

3-23-13 Combined Test Dressage - YouTube


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> There is a part of the problem right there. A poor fitting saddle does not allow the horse to move freely.
> 
> I thought the same thing, but now my horse has muscle atrophy on one shoulder. I immediately stopped using that saddle and bought him one that fits (along with a saddle evaluator we found one that fits both him and I) and then made a chiropractic. farrier, and vet appointment to see if there was something else going on.
> 
> Why will it take that long for your new saddle?


I should add that the more she learned and worked, the more of a topline and muscling happened.. so it greatly affected the fit of the saddle. Same with my horse. Once upon a time his old saddle fit him to a T. Then it didn't.

It's what happens.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Ashsunnyeventer said:


> @Sky- I have tried counter bend, then keeping the whip pressed into that shoulder, but she just doesn't care.


You shouldn't hold it against her shoulder. A little tickle or a series of taps until she makes a change, then you release. If she drops it again, do it again starting from a tickle until she keeps it there.

But I suspect with the saddle that fits she'll be a lot happier to comply.


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> This is normal.....I fix one thing and something else falls apart....sigh....it's the cycle of learning I'm afraid....if it wasn't a challenge it would be boring and we wouldn't do it......I'm getting together with a trainer next week I hope....my horse is 'finished' and I still manage to ****** it all up


Ha! Funny how we can always manage to bring out the yuck in our "finished" horses... :lol:

I could sense the frustration in your post, and I bet this is something you carry around more than not when you're at the barn riding. Deeeeep breath, paste on a smile (it helps!), do something your horse knows how to do and praise them for it, then come back to your problem. x10 on the deep breaths and smiles!

Have you thought about doing some work on ground to make your horse more receptive to allowing you to control her shoulders? If you can give her a very specific cue on the ground (even if it's pressing the whip into her shoulder) to make her yield that shoulder, and bring it back into the saddle with you, perhaps she can realize "oh! I know how to do this!" and give it her best shot. It sounds like maybe you're both frustrated and confused about the whole problem!

If you can get her to yield her shoulders with the whip press, maybe every time she doesn't listen to it "in action," you can stop her, make her yield them in a 1/4-1/2 circle, and try again while you're moving.

Just my amateur advice! Well, amateur riding advice... master at being frustrated advice.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

It is acutally taking 12 weeks, but we ordered it a month ago. Because I'm an awkwardly proportioned person and she's an awkward horse, the saddle had to be almost custom made to fit. It's a County Competitor dressage saddle, so I won't have to ride in the jumping saddle anymore. The saddle I have now pinches more on the right than the left, but it's all I've got and I don't trust her enough to ride her bareback- she's rather unpredictable. I can't give her time off either because she's crazy after 2 days off, let alone 2 months (plus we have several shows coming up). I'm between a rock and a hard place with this saddle issue, and while I feel bad for her (and me because its too small!), we just have to keep going. I can't let her get away with this shoulder thing for any longer.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Welcome to working with young, green horses. You're going to go through cycles of "OMG that was an amazing ride!" and "holy $%^& that was awful." It's part of the process. 
A couple of weeks ago, I was even (ashamedly) seriously considering listing Ronan and looking at other horses for sale. I had bad ride after bad ride, it seemed like Ronan just didn't have the heart or will that I wanted.. for a couple of weeks, I sent texts to my fiance saying "well, that was another crappy ride." I talked to friends and family and had the saddle fitter back out. Honestly I think what helped the most was the saddle fitter saying "Wow. You've done a fantastic job, he looks great. His muscling has changed completely since I saw you last." 
Anyways, it seemed like just as quickly as we lost our groove, we got it back. Last Monday I texted Rich saying "I had a fantastic ride!" The rides since then have all been great. It seemed like all of a sudden, Ronan "got it" and understood what I was asking. 
That's how it goes. Good and bad. Having things go amazing one ride and fall apart the next, or even within the same session. 

So - you have to decide if you, as a rider, WANT to go through this. Frustration is part and parcel of bringing along a green (or even less trained) horse to where you want it. 
It's not a shameful thing if you decide that you want a "made" horse, or one with more training - that is YOUR prerogative, and nobody should judge you if you do decide to go that route... OR you stick with it and learn coping skills for those frustrating rides. 

If you decide to keep on with your green horse, you need to learn more or better coping skills. Learn what to do on those days where you get frustrated and cannot seem to "get it" - maybe that means that you go back to an easy skill and end on a good note. 
A suggestion I do have (that I need to start doing myself) is keep a journal. Keep track of your rides, as well as your horse's and YOUR mental state/what's going on in your lives. My "awful" rides happen to fall on days where I'm exceedingly stressed - coincidence? I think not. So those days I need to take a step back for myself and think "OK, Allie - you're being a twit, what's going on? Okay so clearly you're in a 'mood' today and it's not fair to Ronan that you get frustrated at him for not doing [movement] 100% correctly. Go back to a stretchy trot and call it a day. Maybe pick up some wine on your way home."


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

So I missed some posts in there  So... I can turn her shoulders on the ground by just raising my hand and walking towards her - she came with excellent ground manners. I guess I can try with the whip, although the sensitive baby might get her feelings hurt. 

From a stand still I can do a complete turn on the haunches, and can manage the shoulder on straight lines at the walk. from there it just gets worse. When she's not straight, she can't push evenly, and with out that the connection is screwy and on and on and on. Somehow, my trainer has made me realize that all of our major problems stem from this shoulder! 

And I totally agree on working on something else and then coming back to the problem- it's good to clear our minds. BUT... now, in everything I do, I can't help but notice the shoulder!!!! And if I notice it, then I have to fix it- and the cycle starts again. 

I did manage to take her on a trail ride today- there's and idea- replace the frustration with nervousness (on both our parts) 

The thing is.. I already have a made horse, and he was only fun for a while, then I needed more of a challenge, so yes- I will stick with the baby. The training progress blog that I started over the summer was my way of journaling, but I hardly have time to be on the forum, let alone write the blog now. And also, a big part of my dislike with the blog was that I could start to see myself regressing. See that last week was great and this week not so much.... A way of coping that I found with my other horse was to just go jump something. We both liked jumping a heck of a lot more than dressage, so if things got tough- we would go jump. Problem was that I would just end up jumping all the time because dressage is no fun. Unfortunatly with eventing, you can't get to the fun stuff without dressage  Also, the baby has lots of problems with her jumping too- I'm starting to see that we really have no "good area" unless you count being really cute


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Alright- I gave in and updated the blog. I will try to keep doing it every week as it gives me a reminder of how to work through her issues. Thanks for the reminder JustDressageIt


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Remember it's spring, and mares start coming into heat again. can make them irritable.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

@Tiny- I just thought of that and made a thread asking a ton of stupid questions since I'm a first time mare owner. If you happen to know something about mares, the thread is in the horse health section


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Ashsunnyeventer said:


> I'm starting to see that we really have no "good area" unless you count being really cute


Don't feel that way! I bet you know that isn't true, especially with this baby. Considering how much you appear to have accomplished, I think that you guys have more potential than you are giving yourself credit for. 

This is just a phase. You two will work it through together with the help of your trainer and you'll be all the better in every area for it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I thought you rode very nicely in the videos. I think you are and will be a very tidy pair. Your horse is not a machine. She is going to have some glitches. Why don't you back off of dressage for a month and do nothing but trail riding, until she is bored with that.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

1. Neither of us are confident with trails- in fact we are both nervous wrecks (I guess that could be something to work on though)
2. I have a 1/4 hacking field to my use and that is it
3. I have shows that I need to practice for (I'm already signed up)

I will try to do more jumping to mix it up, and yes- we will work on trails. If it were during the winter then I would say sure leave the dressage for a month, but it's tough during show season. I'm trying to find other shows for us to do like jumper shows or hunter paces or something- get out of the ring. And yes, I realize I'm not really treating her fairly and that needs to change. when I first got her I somehow turned everything into a game becasue she got so bored. I'm trying to remember how I did that... and how I can change it to incorporate more advanced things


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## KountryPrincess (Oct 23, 2012)

Can you take a break from this stuff for a bit? My own mare is very sensitive and she has a ton of try. We can only school on certian things for short periods of time before she becomes really anticipatory (if we are getting it right), or really frustrated (if we aren't quite there yet). I have to mix it up constantly when we are schooling.

That aside, I was wondering if you could do something else. Trail work, obstacle work, something totally different to give both of you a break and allow her to have success at something else and get your mind off of what your frustrations are. Then when you go back to schooling, you will have a more relaxed horse who is trusting you more and more, and you may have better luck. 

Also I would continue to mix it up with other activities, whether she is doing well or not, dressage is really a lot of work mentally and physically for both horse and rider. I think you both need a break periodically.

Oops edit....sorry OP, I did not read your most recent post. Sounds like you may be going to try what I was suggesting. If you cannot do trails, try trail obstacles, like the mailbox, bridges, working within the boundaries of poles on the ground, that kind of stuff.


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## Nickers2002 (Nov 25, 2009)

When Nick gets like this he usually needs a "free" day. A day without training and structure - we ride around the ring and have fun, or go for a trail ride, etc. It does seem to help with him - not sure how your girl is though


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Today was a good day. It was HOT and I really didn't feel like working and I don't think she did either. We went on a 30 minute walking hack and then went back to the arena. I thought that if I wasn't going to make _her_ work, then I should at least work. I crossed my stirrups over and did no stirrup work at walk/trot/canter. I asked for bend in the ribcage, but not much else. She did give me a few steps of relaxation in her poll and jaw, so that was nice. I found out that the constant bumping of the stirrup on her shoulder acually kept it in line with out me working super hard! So the shoulder wasn't too bad today either.

I was brainstorming today during school and found a fun activity to keep her shoulder connected- sort of a compromise. Sunny likes to go fast and I want to control the shoulders- mix them together and you get..... BARREL RACING! I can set up jump standards in the pattern and I have a friend that used to ride western. If it doesn't end up working out, then at least we tried something different.

Also, I realized that when I ride alone I end up feeling super happy with the ride or really frustrated. I'm trying to get my mom to ride more, so maybe if I keep riding with other people, that will take the frustration down. I guess if I keep having a conversation with someone while I ride, it keeps me from focusing on the bad stuff.

She gets tomorrow off and hopefully Wednesday will be a good day too


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

She's 4. I'm assuming coming 5 this year?

I'm going to warn you - 5 and 6 are pretty awful. Keep pushing, keep riding, give her lots of brain breaks. This is totally normal.
It's good to find things that keep her mind engaged (trail rides, etc) and her body worked. You might also want to set up trail/bombproofing courses. Try side passing over scary objects, backing through poles, having tarps, pool noodles going through a hanging bead screen, etc.. etc..

It does get better, in a few years. Lol.

Have fun and good luck!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Ah the joys of young horses!! They can be both the most rewarding and frustrating thing in the world. 
I've got a 21/2 year old coming up and all I can say is that I'm glad I've got my older horse (who is also good at frustrating me like crazy - "Speeg you are training advanced, you CAN bloody leg yield!!!!") to keep me somewhat sane and feeling that I can a really ride. 

Like Anebel said, that 5th and 6th year are real doozies. They've hit their 'teenage' years and tend to flex their muscles and test the boundaries. 
I'm not sure how old you are - but think of yourself as your parents, and your horse as your teenage self. Might make you feel did your parents a little 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KountryPrincess (Oct 23, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> She's 4. I'm assuming coming 5 this year?
> 
> I'm going to warn you - 5 and 6 are pretty awful. Keep pushing, keep riding, give her lots of brain breaks. This is totally normal.
> It's good to find things that keep her mind engaged (trail rides, etc) and her body worked. You might also want to set up trail/bombproofing courses. Try side passing over scary objects, backing through poles, having tarps, pool noodles going through a hanging bead screen, etc.. etc..
> ...


I agree. I got my mare when she was a four year old. Many people seem to be under the impression that a horse is grown and finished at four. I have news for them......

Even though they can have a great start at four, most will continue to test you, and test their place in the herd, basically they are still forming their adult personality. No matter how well-started most four year olds are, in inexperienced hands, they can start regressing pretty quickly.

When I read the original thread starter, I thought a similar thing....that the mare was still young and has a lot of growing, and growing pains, to still get through. Patience with her should be well rewarded in a couple of years.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm 15, she will be 5 on May 1st (so she is basically 5 now...) She's my first greenie and I never knew how much I had to improve until I got her  There's a big difference between sitting on an upper level horse and doing dressage horse and trying to do something that looks like dressage with Sunny. I've improved so much over the few months I've had her, but for a few weeks I thought I had made a terrible decision  

Wonderful- the next 2 years will be fun then... Maybe I will actually become a patient person or decide show jumping would just be more fun... Lets hope by the time I get to college she will be back to her normal self :lol:


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## TBforever (Jan 26, 2013)

she is only 4, maybe u are expecting too much to soon. 15 yr old trained horses have their moments.

try not to have so much expectations of what she should be doing right, there is no rush


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## TBforever (Jan 26, 2013)

do you do groundwork?


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

What do you mean by groundwork? I can't get her to collect in hand or any of that "at liberty" stuff, but she yields when I ask her to move. She backs up, moves butt and shoulders, follows quietly etc. She had yesterday off and today we have a dressage lesson. Fingers crossed for a good ride.


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## TBforever (Jan 26, 2013)

well try groundwork stuff with her, longe her and look from the ground why her shoulder drops, alot of stuff u can do in saddle u can do on ground


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

So today's lesson was a lot like last week. We spent about 40 minutes just going in a circle trying for a steadier connection and control of the outside shoulder. Fun..... This is a common theme with my trainer- lots and lots of circling because as soon as we go straight, everything is lost.
I did my dressage test once since we have a show on Sunday. It wasn't anything great, but if she did it that way at the show, I would be happy.
It was 85+ degrees today and Sunny was sweating before I even rode her. She felt super tired and slow, but as soon as I put her back in the field, she galloped off to her friends.. I guess she did have some energy after all.


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