# Color genetics



## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Hello. I just had a filly born last week and I'm thinking she is grulla. Her sire is a grulla roan and her dam is a buckskin. The filly has the darker face the stripes on her legs and the transverse mottling across her withers. And the dun stripe down her back that goes all the way into her tail


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Let's hope you're right! Grulla is one of my most favorite colors. But you won't really know until she grows her adult coat. Lots of foals are born with dorsal stripes that disappear.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

I am hoping plus all of the foals born from that stallion and buckskin mares have turned out grulla. So I'm hoping.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

This is going to be a fun one to watch! 

My initial thought was bay dun, but there is a tone to some of the pics that would make me believe grulla. That dorsal goes very clearly though the tail, so I do think its actual dun and not just nd1 playing tricks. 

Has the mare had any black foals before? That would at let us know she is Aa.

I hope you will post periodic updates as the foal grows and sheds.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

phantomhorse13 said:


> This is going to be a fun one to watch!
> 
> My initial thought was bay dun, but there is a tone to some of the pics that would make me believe grulla. That dorsal goes very clearly though the tail, so I do think its actual dun and not just nd1 playing tricks.
> 
> ...


She's never had a foal before this one and yes I will post pictures as she grows and sheds


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Do you have any new born pictures?


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

QtrBel said:


> Do you have any new born pictures?





QtrBel said:


> Do you have any new born pictures?





QtrBel said:


> Do you have any new born pictures?
> [/QUO. The last 3 are the day she was born. The others she was 4 days old. I am adding a picture taken yesterday at a week old that shows the stripes behind her ears


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

I just added 4 photos of her sire


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

QtrBel said:


> Do you have any new born pictures?


those are newbirn


QtrBel said:


> Do you have any new born pictures?


The last 3 pictures are the day she was born. The others are when she was a few days old.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

She's either grulla or dun (bay dun), genetically could go either way, no matter what color other buckskin mares have had with him the mare will be the one to determine it because the sire is aa. Time will tell or you could get her tested (I'd just wait and see).


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

haviris said:


> She's either grulla or dun (bay dun), genetically could go either way, no matter what color other buckskin mares have had with him the mare will be the one to determine it because the sire is aa. Time will tell or you could get her tested (I'd just wait and see).


. I will. I'm anxiously awaiting as she.m for were there to nnnn


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

I tried to add new photos to the filly I had posted. Here are some new ones. These were taken Wednesday. She was 2 weeks old


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

The last set of pics makes me lean more towards bay dun versus grulla, but will be very interesting to see what the foal shed reveals. Super cute foal - I am sure you are really pleased.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

phantomhorse13 said:


> The last set of pics makes me lean more towards bay dun versus grulla, but will be very interesting to see what the foal shed reveals. Super cute foal - I am sure you are really pleased.


I'm leaning toward bay dun also. Here are pictures from Sunday


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Looks most like what I would expect a bay dun to look like though grulla can fool you at times.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

The same stud and his grulla mare had a foal 11 days after she was born and this one looked grulla roan the morning after picture they sent me. They sent me 3 over the weekend and she has changed a lot. Here are those pictures. The stud is grulla roan but he's not homozygous


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The horse in the background for this little one is not grulla. Is that not its momma?


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

helen1954 said:


> The same stud and his grulla mare had a foal 11 days after she was born and this one looked grulla roan the morning after picture they sent me. They sent me 3 over the weekend and she has changed a lot. Here are those pictures. The stud is grulla roan but he's not homozygous


Yes that is her momma in the background


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The mare is bay. For a horse to be black they would need one E. The sire and both mares are E? With the sire being aa as A? Would mean bay. Your mare is E?A? Cr/n (buckskin) the other is E?A? No cream (bay). For either to have a black based foal they would have to be Aa. If either turns out to be grulla then you know that is true otherwise testing would tell you. The sire is E?aaD?Rn? You said not homozygous but for what? Black, Dun or Roan? He could also carry cream. It would be really interesting to know what he is if tested.

Roan is linked to Extension so if he were Ee and the roan linked to E any that inherit E would be roan and those that get e would not be. Conversely if the e is where Rn linked any black or bay base would have to get E from the dam and the e from him to be roan. If he is EE then he would have no red foals and 50% chance of Rn - baby either gets the linked E/a/Rn or E/a/rn. So if by chance he did carry cream then this second baby could be dunskin.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

QtrBel said:


> The horse in the background for this little one is not grulla. Is that not its momma?


Yes that's her momma


QtrBel said:


> The mare is bay. For a horse to be black they would need one E. The sire and both mares are E? With the sire being aa as A? Would mean bay. Your mare is E?A? Cr/n (buckskin) the other is E?A? No cream (bay). For either to have a black based foal they would have to be Aa. If either turns out to be grulla then you know that is true otherwise testing would tell you. The sire is E?aaD?Rn? You said not homozygous but for what? Black, Dun or Roan? He could also carry cream. It would be really interesting to know what he is if tested.
> 
> Roan is linked to Extension so if he were Ee and the roan linked to E any that inherit E would be roan and those that get e would not be. Conversely if the e is where Rn linked any black or bay base would have to get E from the dam and the e from him to be roan. If he is EE then he would have no red foals and 50% chance of Rn - baby either gets the linked E/a/Rn or E/a/rn. So if by chance he did carry cream then this second baby could be dunskin.


Here is a picture of his mare before she had the foal.


QtrBel said:


> The mare is bay. For a horse to be black they would need one E. The sire and both mares are E? With the sire being aa as A? Would mean bay. Your mare is E?A? Cr/n (buckskin) the other is E?A? No cream (bay). For either to have a black based foal they would have to be Aa. If either turns out to be grulla then you know that is true otherwise testing would tell you. The sire is E?aaD?Rn? You said not homozygous but for what? Black, Dun or Roan? He could also carry cream. It would be really interesting to know what he is if tested.
> 
> Roan is linked to Extension so if he were Ee and the roan linked to E any that inherit E would be roan and those that get e would not be. Conversely if the e is where Rn linked any black or bay base would have to get E from the dam and the e from him to be roan. If he is EE then he would have no red foals and 50% chance of Rn - baby either gets the linked E/a/Rn or E/a/rn. So if by chance he did carry cream then this second baby could be dunskin.


This is a picture of his mare before she had the foal


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

helen1954 said:


> Yes that's her momma
> 
> Here is a picture of his mare before she had the foal.
> 
> This is a picture of his mare before she had the foal


Here are a few updated pictures of the foal. In the color genetics on Facebook. Everyone is saying grulla.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

This filly has had me going back and forth between grulla and bay dun. She's starting to get dark spots coming on where she's getting ready to shed the foal coat. I put pictures of her up on a group in Facebook on color genetics and they are saying grulla


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The first shed is the darkest. You'll likely have to wait and see unless you send off hair for testing. It could go either way.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Bay dun.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

New pictures on the change in this filly


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

First shed will typically be the darkest. Not adult shade. That may take a couple of sheds.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

helen1954 said:


> This filly has had me going back and forth between grulla and bay dun. She's starting to get dark spots coming on where she's getting ready to shed the foal coat. I put pictures of her up on a group in Facebook on color genetics and they are saying grulla


The filly's shed on her body is shedding out a mousy grayish color. I'm saying grulla now


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

This fily has made so many changes from birth. She's looking more grulla as she's shedding out her foal coat.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Cutey pie!


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

phantomhorse13 said:


> This is going to be a fun one to watch!
> 
> My initial thought was bay dun, but there is a tone to some of the pics that would make me believe grulla. That dorsal goes very clearly though the tail, so I do think its actual dun and not just nd1 playing tricks.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to give you an update on the filly. She was 3 months old yesterday and definitely a grulla.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

For the ones that wanted to get updated pictures on this filly. She's definitely not a bay dun. Her black legs would have been restricted to the points and her black legs go all the way up. She is grulla. A black dun.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

Very pretty!! How's she bred?

Ages ago, I bought a colt at a sale that if kept inside, was blue.
always like a good grullo.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Zimalia22 said:


> Very pretty!! How's she bred?
> 
> Ages ago, I bought a colt at a sale that if kept inside, was blue.
> always like a good grullo.


Her sire is Rowdy B Hollywood and her dam is Twoid Red Bucks Lady. Here is a collage of her at one month and now at 3 months. She has Leo Hancock Hayes and Two eyed red buck on her papers. He grandsire who is a son of two eyed red buck but he's 5 panel clean. I called AQHA to find out before I bred her


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

helen1954 said:


> Her sire is Rowdy B Hollywood and her dam is Twoid Red Bucks Lady. Here is a collage of her at one month and now at 3 months. She has Leo Hancock Hayes and Two eyed red buck on her papers. He grandsire who is a son of two eyed red buck but he's 5 panel clean. I called AQHA to find out before I bred her


She's a beautiful filly! Looking forward to watching her grow in your pictures!!


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

helen1954 said:


> Her sire is Rowdy B Hollywood and her dam is Twoid Red Bucks Lady. Here is a collage of her at one month and now at 3 months. She has Leo Hancock Hayes and Two eyed red buck on her papers. He grandsire who is a son of two eyed red buck but he's 5 panel clean. I called AQHA to find out before I bred her


Updated photo. 3 1/2 months


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

Shes sure a looker! Very nice indeed!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Turning out quite lovely.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Zimalia22 said:


> Shes sure a looker! Very nice indeed!


Thank you. She's the most calm laid back foal I have ever been around


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

helen1954 said:


> Thank you. She's the most calm laid back foal I have ever been around


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

I just wanted to post new pictures of the filly.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

She sure is a cutie.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Thank you. She's a sweetheart too. You can handle her anyway you want to. She's been gentle from day 1


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

New pictures of the grulla filly in her winter coat


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## Sombrablu (9 mo ago)

She is stunning! Funnily enough I am waiting for my grulla roan to foal and she was bred to a buckskin Tobiano! I would be thrilled to get one just like your baby! Wow!!!


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

That would be great. Please keep me posted


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Sombrablu said:


> She is stunning! Funnily enough I am waiting for my grulla roan to foal and she was bred to a buckskin Tobiano! I would be thrilled to get one just like your baby! Wow!!!


That would be great. Please keep me posted. I would love to see pictures of your foal


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## Sombrablu (9 mo ago)

helen1954 said:


> That would be great. Please keep me posted. I would love to see pictures of your foal


I sure will! I made a foaling thread for her also so if I can’t find this one again I’m sure I’ll post them in that one. It’s called “Sombra Blu is soon due” 😂


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Sombrablu said:


> I sure will! I made a foaling thread for her also so if I can’t find this one again I’m sure I’ll post them in that one. It’s called “Sombra Blu is soon due” 😂


I ran across these pictures of the filly last year even she was shedding out. She is a beautiful bluish gray grulla color


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## Sombrablu (9 mo ago)

She is amazing! Her color is really unique and she looks like she has a great build! You have a really special filly, can’t wait to see what I get! Thanks for the extra pictures to drool over! She’s just stunning!


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Sombrablu said:


> She is amazing! Her color is really unique and she looks like she has a great build! You have a really special filly, can’t wait to see what I get! Thanks for the extra pictures to drool over! She’s just stunning!


Thank you. I look forward to seeing what you get


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

helen1954 said:


> Thank you. I look forward to seeing what you get


Hi I just had to send you updated pictures today. She's so blue with a hint of gray


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## Sombrablu (9 mo ago)

helen1954 said:


> Hi I just had to send you updated pictures today. She's so blue with a hint of gray


 She’s really a fantastic girl! Just lovely! Here’s my grulla roan as a foal, her full brother (playing with feed scoop, standing, face pic) and her now (last 3 pics if they load right)


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

helen1954 said:


> Hi I just had to send you updated pictures today. She's so blue with a hint of gray


Some updated photos


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## Linoone (11 mo ago)

@helen1954 Has she shed out completely? Because if that's her summer coat, she's turned a truly lovely shade of grulla! I adore grulla, it's probably my absolute favorite horse coat color.


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## helen1954 (Aug 3, 2016)

Linoone said:


> @helen1954 Has she shed out completely? Because if that's her summer coat, she's turned a truly lovely shade of grulla! I adore grulla, it's probably my absolute favorite horse coat color.


Yes she has shed out completely. She is a beautiful shade of grulla and one of my very favorite colors also


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