# jumping critique + stirrup length?



## elmosworld (Nov 22, 2008)

please critique me and my pony jumping (95cm)..









also as a side note, just wondering if u thought my stirrups were too long?
and any tips for keeping my lower leg from slipping back? i always think to shove them forward going into the jump but in a round forget and when training it just feels really unnatural..


----------



## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Your overall position is good and while your legs have slipped,you still have a straight line from your hip to your heel. 

I would not raise your stirrups because I'm afraid that will put you too far out of the saddle when your jumping but it doesn't hurt to try it anyways. If you feel even more unbalanced with shorter stirrups then you will know it isn't going to fix it. Sometimes the right position feels weird or uncomfortable but if a new position ever throws you out of balance or restricts your movements then it's not right. Don't keep your stirrups raised if you start to teeter or really swing your leg back. 

Do you feel like your legs are really sliding and you're tipping forward when you're in that position or do you stay with your horse and don't notice it until you see yourself?

I would say if you aren't getting left behind or getting in front of your horse then I wouldn't worry overmuch about it. You could try exercises like riding on the flat without stirrups, jumping low fences without stirrups, etc just to strengthen your legs and that might help them lock into position but if that's all the farther your leg slides and your seat is generally that solid then I wouldn't do too much to fix it because you could really mess yourself up. 

Overall you both look good and keep up the good work!


----------



## bellybaby (Sep 25, 2009)

Your stirrups need to go up at least 2 holes, this is why your lower leg is slipping back. when you raise your stirrup up you will increase the bend in your knee and this will help in keeping you in balance. you dont want to 'shove your leg forward', but rather learn to ride in balance with shorter stirrup leathers.

Doing the above will also help with your forward seat, at the moment you are to low to the saddle. because you are riding to long you are pushing your self to far back in the saddle which again is sliding your lower leg backwards. 

So shorten your leathers and practice riding in a forward seat on the flat, then over jumps. as a whole though your pony seems to be jumping well.

bellybaby x


----------



## elmosworld (Nov 22, 2008)

thanks guys!

Nittanyequestrian - that's the one thing stopping me from just chucking them up - i tend to get crunched up.
I don't notice that my legs are moving at all, when i actually jump they feel like they're in a really good position and as i said, if i push them forward it just feels weird and i end up getting jumped out of the saddle etc.. thanks!

bellybaby - i do lots of non stirrups work and heeeeaps of 2-point (forward seat) trotting and cantering every day i ride (ie 10mins straight).. it made a difference at first but isn't helping this last little bit.


here's a pic with my stirrups shorter (2holes) -


----------



## nirvana (Sep 14, 2009)

The way my instructor measures what hight my sturrup needs to be is by letting my leg dangle outside of the stirrup, if the stirup is at the same hight of my ankle it is the correct hight.


----------



## hollybee (Aug 14, 2009)

i don't have super-short stirrups for jumping either, cos i'm really tall and feel uncomfortable with "proper" jumping-length stirrups - but i'm training to be a BHS instructor so i get told off for it ! lol

you're not too close to your saddle and over-all i think you look fine
if you feel comfortable with your stirrups that length, then keep them that length 

--your pony's really cute too !


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I guess I'm missing something. Her leg is slipping back?? It's practically perpendicular to the ground. I wish my leg only "slipped" that far back. I think she looks better than 95% of the people who post here. I wouldn't change a thing.


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Yep, her leg has slipped back. Her toes should be at the girth.

Her irons are placed incorreclty on her foot as well, they are too far back and shoud be at the balls of her toes - where the outter bar of the iron being at her pinky toe, and the inner bar should be at the ball of her big toe.

Her heels should be deep as well, instead they are flat - but we can blame the incorrect placement of her iron.

That also, is why she lost her lower leg - in both pictures.

Legs should be, at all times, wrapped around the horses girth - toes should be at the girth. Heels shoud be deep taking the bodies weight.

Yes, the rider has lost her leg.


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> Your stirrups need to go up at least 2 holes, this is why your lower leg is slipping back. when you raise your stirrup up you will increase the bend in your knee and this will help in keeping you in balance. you dont want to 'shove your leg forward', but rather learn to ride in balance with shorter stirrup leathers.
> 
> Doing the above will also help with your forward seat, at the moment you are to low to the saddle. because you are riding to long you are pushing your self to far back in the saddle which again is sliding your lower leg backwards.
> 
> So shorten your leathers and practice riding in a forward seat on the flat, then over jumps. as a whole though your pony seems to be jumping well.


I respectfully disagree.

1) Legs slipped back NOT because of leather length - they are at the correct length. They slipped back because she does not have the proper muscle memory to solidify her lower leg at the girth. Her irons are placed incorrectly on her feet and she is not allowing her heels to do their job.

2) Her seat is exactly where it should be. Just hovering over her saddle, and is dead center in her tack. She is just where she should be.

3) Yes she does want to shove her legs forward. They need to be glued at the girth. She needs to wrap her lower leg *inner calf* around the girth, and open her knee's.

4) Again, her seat is perfect. Just where it should be. This rider has allowed her horse to lift her out of her tack - which is exactly what we need to do. Majority of riders tend to ride in a forward seat, which then results with riders jumping ahead and out. 

This riders seat is perfect. 

Her leathers are at the perfect length. No longer, no shorter - they are just where they need to be.

The only thing that needs to be corrected is her lower leg - they need to be trained *muscle memory* to stay at the girth.

And of course, correcting the placement of her iron, and heels MUST be doing their job.


----------



## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

> Yep, her leg has slipped back. Her toes should be at the girth.


I respectfully disagree. If her toes were at the girth, her leg would be too far forward, and she would be left behind.


----------



## kmarie (Jul 26, 2009)

I agree with MIeventer. Something my trainer used to do when i was schooling was take a peice of bailing twine and tie my stirrup to the girth. that way when it slid back just an inch or two i would feel it and it helped me to realized when i had slipped. And keeping that stirrup where it belongs, about an inch forward with the outside angled more forward (its actually angled in the wrong direction in the first photo) will help as well.


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I'd love to submit this pic to George Morris and see what he says. I was always taught that rider's lower leg should always stay perpendicular to the ground whether doing flatwork, trails or jumping. His or her relative position in the air should never change. Only the upper body from the hips up should open and close as necessary to stay over the horse's center. Wish I could remember where I learned that.


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I studiously read GM's critiques and have his books and videos. I guarantee you he'd say it slipped back as well. Whenever he comes to my neck of the woods, for clinics - you can guarantee I am there auditing and listening to him religiously. 

He stresses time and time again that the leg must remain at the girth for multiple reasons. 

The toes should never fall behind the girth, nor surpass it. 

He stresses over and over again that we must train our muscles to stick to the girth.


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

If that horse disappears out from under her, she's landing on her feet. With her legs at the girth, she'd fall on her butt. It's just confusing. If her lower leg had slipped back, she'd most likely be over jumping. Instead she's beautifully just enough out of the saddle and staying with her horse's jump. If the OP doesn't mind, I'd love to show this pic to some jumping experts at the upcoming Equine Affair and see what they have to say.


----------



## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

No, loosing your lower leg doesn't mean you'd be jumping ahead. If you were gripping with your knees, yes - that blocks the flow of our bodies weight that is supposed to naturally dispurse from our upper body into our heels.

When you grip with your knees, that causes your lower leg to fling back and your upper body to fling forward. 

If you are not gripping your knees but still are not solidifying your lower leg at the girth with your inner calf *being wrapped around our horses, not just ontop* you can still loose your lower leg, but you wont be thrown off balance, because there is no knee gripping that disrupts the bodies balance. 

I invite you to studdy GM's pictures. And Beezie Maddens. Look at where their legs are. Look at riders back in the 50's. 

Read GM's columns. Legs must be solidifed at the girth, knee's open and inner calf wrapped around our horse. Toes must be just at the girth. Not at the center, not surpassed. Just at the girth.


----------



## ridingismylife2 (Nov 4, 2008)

I agree with MIEventer. 
The OP looks great though IMO (apart from the slipped leg).


----------



## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

take away your sturrups ... it will create a really strong leg (i would suggest someone who knows what they are doing or your trainer give you pointers so that you are working on your position correctly) and force you not to rely on your sturrups ... when i was on the equestrian team in college we didn't get sturrups for the first 2 months or so...


----------

