# Male riders and uhh... comfort



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

There are several good threads on how to keep "the boys"comfortable when riding. It is certainly a valid topic and since plenty of men ride, they deal with this on a regular basis. You would have to do a search to find those threads. Something like, "Men riding comfortably" /?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

How about this one?

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-rid...anly-body-parts-106658/?highlight=male+riders


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

I had one or two "collisions" when learning to post the trot (english saddle) but soon got cured of that.

I never had the problem when walking, sitting, the trot, or cantering. Dunno about galloping, since I'm completely off the saddle.


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## VT Trail Trotters (Jul 21, 2011)

Im a guy and i may say, you gotta be careful and wearing boxer shorts may not be a great idea when riding. My 2 cents.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

LOL, thats funny I was thinking of this -this afternoon....you never know what I am thinking.......

Because I was listening to a show that was talking about the side effects of spin class..the one where they go really fast on bicycles that go nowhere. And I was wondering if this held true with riding horses...

I am going to call my husband and get the scoop and let you know...


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Not being a male, I can't offer any hands on advice, erhum, so to speak. But an 87 yr old gentleman that I ride with offered this advice for me to give to my husband. "Sit back on his pockets" :lol:


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Breeches and briefs FTW


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I asked my hubby about this before when it came up in a previous post. He rides english only. He said our instructor and another instructor before the one we use now, told him to ride on your rear, not your crotch. Obviously he follows instructions well. Guess I should ask him what he did when he was a kid & rode bareback & delivered newspapers, lol.


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## tecara (Nov 28, 2011)

My husband wears "under armor" boxerjocks... they are a form fitting underwear that he says keeps everything in place... and yes sitting back on the pockets definitely helps. He also tried a lot of saddles before finding the one the liked and that had the best fit.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Honestly I don't get this sit on your pockets thing.

I sit like one should, on my seat bones. Never a problem once I got my balance sorted out.


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## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

LOL... My fiancé is taking lessons now, but apparently the first time he hit the trails in a western saddle it wasn't a good experience.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

RoosHuman said:


> LOL... My fiancé is taking lessons now, but apparently the first time he hit the trails in a western saddle it wasn't a good experience.


 Hope you two still can be parents some day:wink:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

mildot said:


> Honestly I don't get this sit on your pockets thing.
> 
> I sit like one should, on my seat bones. Never a problem once I got my balance sorted out.


Yeah so long as you don't have a poor saddle fit that makes you tip forward too far, there shouldn't be a problem.

I taught a lot of little boys and tween boys and they could trot no problem, bareback, in a pad, in a saddle. Even if the horse was being particularly goofy that day. Good position. Sitting on your pockets, IMOP will cause you to curl up and shove your legs forward into a chair seat to keep your balance. 

I'm not a boy (I hope you know that by now LOL) but that's what I know from 3rd person experience and logic. 

But if you can't handle it, learn 2-point :lol:


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## tcb5040 (Jun 15, 2010)

A good fitting saddle helps. And boxer briefs. It's never been much of a problem for me, all the years I've been riding I can count on one hand how much I've been "hurt down there". Most all of those times were when I lose my seat on a horse freaking out. Even bareback is fine it's just about having a solid seat


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## CessBee (Dec 6, 2008)

Thank you for the help guys.

Will pass it all on haha.


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## jinxremoving (Apr 6, 2009)

CessBee said:


> My boyfriend wants to take up riding but he is concerned with the comfort factor and obviously as any guy doesn't want to hurt himself. (I hope you guys know what I am referring to or this could be awkward )


Speaking as a guy, I can confidently tell you that your boyfriend will hurt himself at some point - not bad or anything, just enough to get his attention. There isn't a single male rider who hasn't smashed himself into the saddle more than once. Tell him to think of it as motivation to do things right; you learn very quickly what works and doesn't work. As others have said, briefs are preferred as they keep things more 'organized' if you will.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> so long as you don't have a poor saddle fit that makes you tip forward too far, there shouldn't be a problem.


That's an excellent point. A saddle that tips you fwd is bad in many ways and none worse than when it makes you jam the family jewels on the pommel..........


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Some of this is just silly. You would think women have dominated riding for 2000+ years...how do folks think all those cavalry riders and cowboys reproduced? :shock:

1 - Riding 'on the pockets' is what a western saddle is designed for. It tends to go along with a mild chair seat - not like riding a Harley, but with the feet forward of the belt buckle. It is not wrong. If you look at photos and illustrations from the 1800s, darn near EVERYONE rode with a bit of a chair seat. Some more than a bit. 

Apart from dressage, I don't think I've seen more than a couple of photos from before 1950 that showed anyone riding with the 'shoulder-hip-heel' thing.

Think about it girls - have any of your boyfriends ever complained, "I can't sit in a chair, it will crush my balls"? :wink:

Most of us have CHAIRS in our homes instead of POLES that we straddle with our heels aligned to our hips. Maybe there is a reason for this? If you don't like company, remove your chairs and install poles for straddling. You won't have many repeat visitors...

2 - Thighs. Most people have them. Use them. Weight can be carried in the thighs as well as the seat. I'm not saying to squeeze with the thighs, but your resting thigh can support weight, just as it does when you are sitting in a chair.

When you post, do you stand up in the stirrups? Well, maybe some do...I've seen it. But for me, posting is more a rolling motion. The horse's thrust rolls me on my thighs to a more forward position, then I let my thighs support some of my weight as I come back down.

For a guy, weight on the thighs is weight that can't smack the family jewels. The thighs form a pocket, just as they do when a guy sits down in a chair...

With a forward seat, more weight is supported by the thighs than the pockets.

3 - Stirrups. Great invention. It isn't wrong or immoral to have weight in the stirrups. It is good to practice without stirrups so you will automatically keep your balance if you lose a stirrup, but there is nothing wrong with pressure on the stirrup. Stirrups are not just an aid for mounting the horse. Weight flowing freely into your heels, which are then supported by the stirrup and your foot, is weight that is not supported by the crotch. It is good to ride without stirrups, but stirrups are attached to a saddle for a reason. 

Arizona, 1909:










From 1875:










Georgia sheriff, early 1900s:










Polo, 1927:










Learning to ride? 1920:


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

bsms said:


> Some of this is just silly. You would think women have dominated riding for 2000+ years...how do folks think all those cavalry riders and cowboys reproduced? :shock:
> 
> 1 - Riding 'on the pockets' is what a western saddle is designed for. It tends to go along with a mild chair seat - not like riding a Harley, but with the feet forward of the belt buckle. It is not wrong. If you look at photos and illustrations from the 1800s, darn near EVERYONE rode with a bit of a chair seat. Some more than a bit.
> 
> ...


 
I guess that covers the basics :lol:

In my 44 years of being on horses the only issue I've ever had with regard to "hurting" myself riding has been the rare odd "accident" with a horn. Something I just had to be careful about when using my working saddle.

Solution otherwise was easy.....don't have a horn :lol: (which a Trooper doesn't) so my current saddle of choice doesn't pose that potential problem :lol:

So I'll have to aggree with you're saying. I'd have to make some effort to sit a saddle in some why that would cause a problem, since having my butt come down first all always worked (can't imagine a different way of sitting).


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

bsms said:


> 1 - Riding 'on the pockets' is what a western saddle is designed for. It tends to go along with a mild chair seat - not like riding a Harley, but with the feet forward of the belt buckle. It is not wrong. If you look at photos and illustrations from the 1800s, darn near EVERYONE rode with a bit of a chair seat. Some more than a bit.


It's not wrong if you like being left behind the motion of the horse all the time.





bsms said:


> Apart from dressage, I don't think I've seen more than a couple of photos from before 1950 that showed anyone riding with the 'shoulder-hip-heel' thing.


Riding techniques advance with time, mostly for the better. You might want to read Sally Swift's book.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

mildot said:


> It's not wrong if you like being left behind the motion of the horse all the time...


Unless you are riding a forward seat, you are almost always behind the horse's motion. That isn't bad. Or good. It depends on your goal. With a western saddle, you are almost always behind the horse's motion. It is more stable, which is good in rough country. It also sets you up well for roping. The forward seat trades security for making it easier for the horse to move well.



mildot said:


> ...Riding techniques advance with time, mostly for the better. You might want to read Sally Swift's book.


Read it. Hate it.

In the 1800s, people rode to DO something. Cavalry often covered 200 miles in less than a week. And in the 1800s, almost no one rode in an arena. And the horses were often owned by someone else, and trained minimally. Don't discount what worked for uncounted thousands of riders based on arena riding, or light recreational riding.

Almost no one today, apart from ranchers, ride as long or in as rough of country as what was done in the 1800s. And most ranchers and cowboys still ride more like old-time cowboys than dressage or jumpers...and FWIW, I like a forward seat & jump saddles. But western riders are not "wrong"...


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

mildot said:


> That's an excellent point. A saddle that tips you fwd is bad in many ways and none worse than when it makes you jam the family jewels on the pommel..........


Oh yes I've seen it happen! Poor guy :/


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

You seem to think that one has to be either behind or ahead of the motion. That is incorrect. One can be with the motion and the only way to do that is with a balanced seat where the heels and the CG of the body happen to be in vertical alignment. For flatwork, that means shoulder, hips, and heels in a vertical line. For work over fences that means that the shoulder will be ahead of the CG, the hips will be behind the CG, and the heels will be directly under it.

A chair seat is inherently unstable and you need to be able to brace on something to stay on. Which is why western and australian saddles have huge, vertical cantles, pommels, and polleys. 


If you are balanced and centered in the saddle you need none of that, as evidenced by the many riders who stay on their horses while cantering, jumping, and galloping cross country (not on manicured arenas) on english saddles during horse trials, fox hunts, and while just riding aggressively.

And there are many fox hunts out west that ride the same country that your cowboys do at a pace that would fry most people's brains.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

being a male rider I learned early on that some things work and some don't.. I like the boxer briefs when I ride, boxers do not make things any easier.. I wear tighter jeans, not skin tight, but I was always more of a slightly baggy pants person, and that doesent help either, not like super baggy like teens wear, and I wear a belt as mounting and dismounting without one your pants move.. also when you sit in the saddle make sure no one is looking or walk for a sec till no one is looking and make sure your stuff is adjusted so it wont pinch if you decide to pick up the speed.. the first time I ever trotted.. it never came to mind and I had to stop because I was singing soprano for a few min.. also a good fitting saddle helps.. if the saddle doesent fit well its easier to smash things..


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

bsms said:


> Unless you are riding a forward seat, you are almost always behind the horse's motion.
> The forward seat trades security for making it easier for the horse to move well.


Alright.. I don't agree with those two points. I feel just as secure in two point because I've got a stable leg and my horse can move freely without me slamming or bumping on his back while I'm trying to find my seat.

But I'll leave it at that.



> For work over fences that means that the shoulder will be ahead of the CG, the hips will be behind the CG, and the heels will be directly under it.


Mildot, what is CG?



> it never came to mind and I had to stop because I was singing soprano for a few min..


Ouch :/


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Alright.. I don't agree with those two points. I feel just as secure in two point because I've got a stable leg and my horse can move freely without me slamming or bumping on his back while I'm trying to find my seat.
> 
> But I'll leave it at that.
> 
> ...


 I think cg is center of gravity at least thats what ive always known it to stand for,. correct me if im wrong


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

bsms said:


> The forward seat trades security for making it easier for the horse to move well....


A forward seat, incorrectly assumed, is insecure. A forward seat where the heels are under your center of gravity, is not.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

gingerscout said:


> I think cg is center of gravity at least thats what ive always known it to stand for,. correct me if im wrong


Correct.

The CG of the human body is approximately at the height of your belly button, centered side to side, and just in front of your spine. It is the center of your "core".


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

I will add that I know that there are western saddles that do place you in a centered position.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I totally agree with Mildot and I have never in my life rode one of those silly little english saddles. If you are riding your HORSE instead of your SADDLE then there should be no problem with the man parts. When you get behind or off balance then there may be some danger to them. If ou want to know the best seat position take your feet out of the stirrups and point your toes then hold your arms straight out to your side and close your eyes. Feel where your wieght is on the saddle and then keep it there when you ride. 

Being behind your horses motion is a good way to sore yourself and your horse. Being too far forward is a good way to fall off and bump your nose. Ideally you should be with your horse and going together. The really good horsemen are so "with" thier horses that the horses legs become thier legs. When you can stay centered on your horse they don't leave you behind and you don't have to drag them along.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay thanks gingerscout and mildot  Someone ate their skilli-os for breakfast!



kevinshorses said:


> If you are riding your HORSE instead of your SADDLE then there should be no problem with the man parts.


Bingo.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> I have never in my life rode one of those silly little english saddles.


Luke....Come to the Dark Side :lol:


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

It might make it a little difficult to get the cow stopped after I got her roped.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

what is a skillio??? lol I was just sharing my experiences on the subject


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> It might make it a little difficult to get the cow stopped after I got her roped.


OK. You don't have to use it all the time......:wink:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Yay I'm glad we all seem to agree on something for once, haha.



gingerscout said:


> what is a skillio??? lol I was just sharing my experiences on the subject


You know Cheerios right? Well if you're very smart, that means you've eaten your *skill*i-os. I'm lame I know.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

bsms said:


> Unless you are riding a forward seat, you are almost always behind the horse's motion. That isn't bad. Or good. It depends on your goal. With a western saddle, you are almost always behind the horse's motion. It is more stable, which is good in rough country. It also sets you up well for roping. The forward seat trades security for making it easier for the horse to move well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And lets not forget the old Cav endurance test for horse (and trooper).
300 miles in 5 days.

People who ride for pleasure should spend some time riding for work. It will give them a different perspective on riding....and saddles. Riding all day for at least 5 days a week every week can really put things in a different perspective.

Went from Dressage to Hunt to Western (for working, and for pleasure). They each have their differences. Hunt served me well for situations where I needed to jump something later on (although not as fun if I happened to on a Western saddle). Dressage taught me balance and feeling comfortable on a horse (but just because I did it first). Western taught me how to ride all day and still have my horse and myself fit and ready to ride the next day (and many more days in a row).
The fun of working on horseback does wear off eventually :lol: (it's not always a fun or easy job), but the lessons learned from it are quite valuable to me. Caused me to ride the saddle I prefer today and the way I ride today. I'm not a fan of the "English" (still have problems with that, since it's not really an "English" saddle, but German/Austrian/Hungarian) or "Western" (another technical miss named sadde, but what can you do :lol saddle. But they serve their purposes. Just as the Trooper serves mine


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

its lbs not miles said:


> taught me how to ride all day and still have my horse and myself fit and ready to ride the next day (and many more days in a row).
> The fun of working on horseback does wear off eventually :lol: (it's not always a fun or easy job),


Oh same here! I had the joy of exercising 8 horses in a day (just walk, trot, figures, a little hill work nothing fancy) around 4 days a week in the summer and then riding mine on top of that every single day... I was so fit haha and prepared to ride again the following day. I was switching between a wintec, bareback, and my current saddle.

It wears off?!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

First, almost all western saddles will put you behind the horse's CG at speed. It takes a fair bit of forward leaning to get the rider's CG in the same spot as the horses, because the balance point of a western saddle is further back than with an Aussie or English saddle. I LIKE riding forward at a canter or gallop in a western saddle, but it means my shoulders are also forward. Well forward.

Although this guy is campdrafting, it illustrates riding forward in an Australian saddle, which is already more forward than most western saddles:








_"One can be with the motion and the only way to do that is with a balanced seat where the heels and the CG of the body happen to be in vertical alignment. For flatwork, that means shoulder, hips, and heels in a vertical line."
_​CG and the stirrups ought to be pretty well aligned, but your CG is not determined by having a vertical line to heels, hips, shoulder. The guy in the photo above almost certainly has his CG with the horse's.

For WALKING, it is true. For a collected horse, it is pretty true. For an extended horse, trying to cover ground, it is not true. That is why you will never see a jockey riding with "shoulder, hips, and heels in a vertical line". In any forward seat, at speed, you do not have "shoulder, hips, and heels in a vertical line".

Being 'behind the horse' means your CG (center of gravity) is behind the horse's CG, which is roughly at the heart girth, but it varies with what the horse is doing. If your horse needs to make sudden stops, being behind the horse is GOOD, just as leaning back is good if you are standing on a bus that stops suddenly.

None of this applies much to the OP question. The OP is obviously not asking if an experienced rider has a problem while riding in ANY of the riding styles. You will never see a top dressage rider get off his horse and grab his balls - nor a top cutter, roper, or jumper.

Most of the concern is based on ignorance. Most men know how to ride a bicycle, and they don't grab their balls getting off a 10-speed either. *It really shouldn't take a man more than about 5-10 seconds to find a position in a saddle that doesn't crush his nuts.* :evil:

My advice was geared to a beginner rider, since experienced riders already know the answer. A mild chair seat (heels aligned with the belt buckle) and carrying some weight on the thighs and in the stirrups will help a first time male rider stay comfortable. And any male will sometimes do something that will feel a bit uncomfortable, but being smarter than a rock, he will figure out to adjust and not repeat.

If he enjoys riding, he may branch into jumping, dressage, roping, or trail riding to whatever extent he wants. When he does, he'll adjust his style of riding and, again, quickly figure out if something is causing a problem. It simply isn't that hard.

I have never boasted about my riding, but for reference, here is what I mean by a mild chair seat. And yes, my CG is behind the horse's at that point (ie, behind the base of the withers):








_"The location of the horse's center of balance depends on a combination of speed and degree of collection. For a standing or quietly walking horse, it is slightly behind the heart girth and below the withers. If a horse is moving at a trot or canter, the center of balance shifts slightly forward, and it moves even more forward when the horse is galloping or jumping. If a horse is highly collected, the center of balance will be farther back, regardless of gait, than if the horse is in an extended frame."_​Center of balance (horse) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The article below is from the Department of Animal Sciences, University of Missouri-Columbia:_"The center of balance of a horse standing or walking freely lies directly over a point a few inches behind the withers. _

_As the horse moves forward at speed, the point of balance moves forward. Jockeys provide a good example of weight well forward on the shoulder, permitting full potential performance of the horse. Even pleasure riders find that "getting forward" is not only comfortable for themselves, but it also seems to allow freer movement of the horse." _​Selecting a Saddle


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

I've had three different riding instructors over the last 12 months, one of which is primarily an AQHA western trainer/instructor, and none of them ever mentioned that being in a chair seat was a good idea. Ever. In fact, quite the opposite.

Not even when learning to ride from scratch (which is where I was a year ago).

All of them have over 30 years of riding experience. Two of them over 40 years of experience.

You can probably guess which way I'm gonna go.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Folks can ride any way that works for them. Most men quickly adjust regardless of style. Most probably don't wear boxer shorts with sweatpants while riding, but beyond that, it is pretty individual.

I gave recommendations off of what works for me. What works best depends on you, the horse, and your goal in riding. When I started riding, the first books I read were written by western pleasure & dressage folks, and the shoulder/hip/heel thing gets a lot of emphasis - as it should, for those styles of riding. With time, I discovered my horses, tack and interests were not well served by the shoulder/hip/heel thing, and now I find myself changing my shoulder and heel position based on what my horse is doing, and what I want him to do next. Sometimes they are aligned, and sometimes not.

But in terms of a man riding and not hurting himself - I regularly ride English, Australian and western saddles. I ride in jeans, and I don't mind using my thighs and stirrups. Sometimes I"m 'forward', and sometimes I am not. And I've never had a significant problem - significant meaning enough discomfort to cause me more than a momentary problem. Of course, I'm not a porn star, nor have I played one on TV...

If someone has a male friend who is worried, tell them to relax. It simply isn't a big problem for most males. I can't speak for the 'exceptional' ones...


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## CessBee (Dec 6, 2008)

Thank you again people. I think when we do have more time to teach him to ride we will pick him up a pair of mens breeches, or at least a pair of jeans with no inner seam, room in the crotch but generally more fitting than what he usually wears.

He has had a bit of walking in my saddle and said it wasn't uncomfortable or squishing anything so we should be good there.

English is what I ride.


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