# Working with Skywatcher



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

I haven't posted in a while, and I thought I would start a new journal because, well everything has changed since the last time I wrote. 

Watcher had two abscessed feet, between the show package his hooves were in and combined with a low drainage mucky area he was out in 24 hours a day both his front hooves developed them. It was scary, and it taught me a lot about him in a very short amount of time. First, he is an absolute baby, anytime anything remotely hurts the world is ending for him. So I had to learn to stop overreacting with him. Luckily the abscesses cleared up nicely, the vet I found for him was amazing and he healed up great. 

We finally are able to start riding but I'm not as strong of a rider as I thought I was. I need to work on my legs and he needs to work on listening to leg cues. I had a friend who rides in the discipline he was trained in and they looked great but he isn't in the shape to be ridden like that consistently yet, but it gave me a lot of really good ideas on what to do. 

It's been a very humbling experience with him lately, not only am I not the rider I thought I was, I can't get lead changes, or correct gait changes down. For now, we're working on trotting on the rail. His canter is lofty and its hard for me to keep my legs on him because he goes from a nice trot to an extended trot which is so bouncy and then he'll canter. I'm hoping I just need to get back into better shape to hang on easier, but I also hope maybe there's a way to make those transitions easier? 

















Any advice is appreciated here. 

He's a challenge and he's still spooky and can be very dimwitted but he's my dimwitted challenging horse and I think we can grow a lot together.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I'm happy to see this!!! And good pictures, too!

My advice to you is just be patient. Be patient with your horse, and yourself. Remember that it's a journey for both of you. And document it all (as you already seem to be doing.) That way when it feels like the two of you haven't made any progress, you can look back and say, "Wow...we did come a long way!"

It looks like you actually have a pretty nice place to ride. Those hills are great for conditioning. Even just walking and long trotting those for a few weeks will do wonders for his top line and your legs! 

I would recommend a chiropractic adjustment for him. I'm a huge fan of the equine chiro. It's done WONDERS for my mare. When horses go through a lot of changes like him, a lot of body parts can get out of whack, so to speak.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

jenkat86 said:


> I'm happy to see this!!! And good pictures, too!
> 
> My advice to you is just be patient. Be patient with your horse, and yourself. Remember that it's a journey for both of you. And document it all (as you already seem to be doing.) That way when it feels like the two of you haven't made any progress, you can look back and say, "Wow...we did come a long way!"
> 
> ...


You always give me such good advice. My patience isn't the best but it's at its best when I'm with him. He's such a joy to work with because I can understand what makes him tick and even though he still gets around me a bit, we make a good team. 

It is a good little place to ride, not a whole lot of room but enough for some hill work. And his top line is what I'm trying my best to work on. I hadn't thought about a chiro adjustment, I'll have to check that out and see what it costs in my area, thanks for that thought.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

is he an arabian? he looks really bunched up in the video.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

tinyliny said:


> is he an arabian? he looks really bunched up in the video.


He's a half-arab. He is very bunched up, she had him on a very short rein and he isn't in the condition to be ridden like that for very long. She only rode him for about 5 minutes, but he has problems throwing his head so I think that's part of the reason why she had him so tight. I don't plan on having her ride him like that again.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

watcher said:


> I hadn't thought about a chiro adjustment, I'll have to check that out and see what it costs in my area, thanks for that thought.


The chiro I use is $75 for an adjustment. I've found that the usual rate is around $50 though. Check with your vet, they may be able to do it, or at least recommend someone.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I second the chiro!

Also, wasn't this the saddleseat horse? From what little knowledge I DO have about that industry, they typically don't take the canter from the trot, which would explain his trot, extended trot, then falling into the canter. Others may disagree, but I was told you don't want a horse that is supposed to be doing a big, strong trot to know he could break into a canter for any reason, hence the picking it up from a walk. Both are "necessary evils" in that division (the walk and the canter). And he wouldn't have flying lead changes on him if he was in that world. That I could guarantee.

What were your plans for him again? He will be a nice horse (not that he isn't!) with some training!


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

Tazzie said:


> I second the chiro!
> 
> Also, wasn't this the saddleseat horse? From what little knowledge I DO have about that industry, they typically don't take the canter from the trot, which would explain his trot, extended trot, then falling into the canter. Others may disagree, but I was told you don't want a horse that is supposed to be doing a big, strong trot to know he could break into a canter for any reason, hence the picking it up from a walk. Both are "necessary evils" in that division (the walk and the canter). And he wouldn't have flying lead changes on him if he was in that world. That I could guarantee.
> 
> What were your plans for him again? He will be a nice horse (not that he isn't!) with some training!


He is the saddleseat horse, and I know nothing about that discipline. I want to take a lesson so i can understand them more, but the one in my area is super competitive and I just can't afford the package and they don't offer single lessons. But that makes a lot of sense about his trots. 

If I want him to have flying lead changes, is it too late? He's 10 and I'm, I'm well inexperienced in most aspects of the show riding world, in any form. I've always ridden for pleasure and on trails and so a little out of my depth to get him to where I'd like him. I'm learning to be able to sit those huge trots, I could post, but I'm frankly not strong enough and my legs won't stay on him when I do just get, but I'm working on it. He just goes from these huge extended trots to a high lofty canter that makes me feel absolutely not secure in the saddle. 

In positive news, he's very brave for me and will cross water, walk up streams and stand in it. He's afraid of pavement, but we can fix that. He's not as spooky as he used to be and now that he's in a bachelor herd, he's not acting all high and mighty stud. 

I think he's got tons of potential, and I think we have tons of potential together, I'll never want to show him, but it would be fun to push and see how good we can get at arena work and then trail work. I'd like to run an amateur endurance race with him one day, but that's a long way off.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

watcher said:


> If I want him to have flying lead changes, is it too late? He's 10 and I'm, I'm well inexperienced in most aspects of the show riding world, in any form.


I come from the camp that it's never too late. It may take longer to get it down, but I think it can be achieved. 

I'm 30 and this was the first year I ever showed. You have to start somewhere!


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I agree with Jenkat. It's never too late to learn something new. If you want to get to do flying changes though, you've gotta put A LOT of work into reconditioning him into a different way of going. Flying changes are also a lot more fun when you ask for them and they aren't doing them due to being unbalanced (which is what I saw happening in your video; he was unbalanced and swapped to try and regain balance.)

I don't know much about Saddleseat. I've only gotten to ride it once, and I certainly couldn't show it. But it's my best friend's favorite discipline so I've learned a lot. I would definitely work on posting more, since that would also be what he's used to. You'll get there. And I don't think you'd need to take lessons with a Saddleseat instructor. You aren't interested in training him that way. You'll get used to his gaits. What I would find is a good Dressage instructor, or a hunter/jumper instructor (though they teach flying changes differently than Dressage; sometimes not as well balanced.) They would be able to help with your overall seat to help you move with him specifically.

It's jut going to take a good amount of time to get him working in an entirely new discipline! But he looks nice from what I see! Definitely rides like the Half Arab English Pleasure horses I've seen.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

Tazzie said:


> I agree with Jenkat. It's never too late to learn something new. If you want to get to do flying changes though, you've gotta put A LOT of work into reconditioning him into a different way of going. Flying changes are also a lot more fun when you ask for them and they aren't doing them due to being unbalanced (which is what I saw happening in your video; he was unbalanced and swapped to try and regain balance.)
> 
> I don't know much about Saddleseat. I've only gotten to ride it once, and I certainly couldn't show it. But it's my best friend's favorite discipline so I've learned a lot. I would definitely work on posting more, since that would also be what he's used to. You'll get there. And I don't think you'd need to take lessons with a Saddleseat instructor. You aren't interested in training him that way. You'll get used to his gaits. What I would find is a good Dressage instructor, or a hunter/jumper instructor (though they teach flying changes differently than Dressage; sometimes not as well balanced.) They would be able to help with your overall seat to help you move with him specifically.
> 
> It's jut going to take a good amount of time to get him working in an entirely new discipline! But he looks nice from what I see! Definitely rides like the Half Arab English Pleasure horses I've seen.


Yeah I noticed that too after watching it a few times. He just isn't comfortable at all in that video, but I just wanted to show where he's at right now. 

I've been thinking a lot about getting a Dressage trainer, or just doing a few lessons in Dressage, so I can translate that over to him and I. I unfortunately can't really afford a trainer at the moment and I can't transport him, so the vast majority of our work is just figuring what works for us. Which, it is working for us, just a little over whelming since I'm not always 100% sure on how to do what's best for both of us. 

I'm willing to put in the work, it's so much fun to work with him anyway, this is what I've always wanted, a horse I could work and learn with. That makes me so proud of my guy that he is riding like that, he's really such a good horse. Thanks for the advice! It's really appreciated.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

watcher said:


> Yeah I noticed that too after watching it a few times. He just isn't comfortable at all in that video, but I just wanted to show where he's at right now.
> 
> I've been thinking a lot about getting a Dressage trainer, or just doing a few lessons in Dressage, so I can translate that over to him and I. I unfortunately can't really afford a trainer at the moment and I can't transport him, so the vast majority of our work is just figuring what works for us. Which, it is working for us, just a little over whelming since I'm not always 100% sure on how to do what's best for both of us.
> 
> I'm willing to put in the work, it's so much fun to work with him anyway, this is what I've always wanted, a horse I could work and learn with. That makes me so proud of my guy that he is riding like that, he's really such a good horse. Thanks for the advice! It's really appreciated.



Don't be discouraged at all. @Tazzie is right on the money- it's just going to take time. It will take time to get him conditioned. Time to get him moving correctly, and then time to teach him what you want him to learn. The best part is you can be working on you the whole time!

Just make little goals for yourself right now. Remember that you are going into winter...I would work on just conditioning right now. Get him balanced. Then move onto the next thing.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I know you said you aren't really considering a trainer right now, but I' still going to throw this out there.

The trainer I use is a little over an hour away from you. He charges $500/month and that includes 30 rides, feed, stall and turn out. He will work with you, also. He will also transport the horse. When I took my mare to him, she was about 350lbs over weight, and had so many issues...feet issues, muscle issues, skeletal issues. He was really instrumental in getting her moving correctly again. 

If you can swing that for even one month, I would consider it. I'm not saying "USE MY TRAINER!!!", I'm just saying that they are out there, and it may not be as expensive as you think. And it may really help you, especially going into winter.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

As someone stuck doing it on their own, I do understand. My lessons are $70 when I actually get a chance to get one, and I have to haul to her. She DOES travel to others, but my area where I ride wouldn't be super conducive to having an instructor out.

The biggest hurdle you'll have to work to overcome, is getting him to relax and come out of the saddleseat headset. THAT will be probably one of your biggest hurdles, and will be what requires the most help. Once you can get him to relax and not suck back like that, you'll be able to work on engaging his back through laterals and what not (as you teach him.) Which will benefit his topline. Personally, I'd get used to his gaits before I worked on overcoming the trot to canter hurdle. Lunging could help with this a lot. Getting him to be prompt in the transitions instead of running and falling into them. This part isn't your fault nor his. He probably just was never shown it was ever ok, and it didn't sound like you knew. You should watch English Pleasure videos :lol: a lot of the people here basically halt the horse, THEN go into the canter even if the judge asked for the canter from the trot. And, this may not be the case with your boy, they ask for the canter in a very odd way. The tilt the horse's head and neck to the outside so the wall basically stops them from grabbing the wrong lead.

Just adding a few more things that will probably need to be worked on :lol: But it'll happen! Just be patient with him, and kind in knowing that this stuff will be new to him. Riding on trails is probably extremely foreign. Heck, my best friend said a lot of the horses she worked with would never have been able to work out in a wide open field. It's just not what they are used to.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

jenkat86 said:


> I know you said you aren't really considering a trainer right now, but I' still going to throw this out there.
> 
> The trainer I use is a little over an hour away from you. He charges $500/month and that includes 30 rides, feed, stall and turn out. He will work with you, also. He will also transport the horse. When I took my mare to him, she was about 350lbs over weight, and had so many issues...feet issues, muscle issues, skeletal issues. He was really instrumental in getting her moving correctly again.
> 
> If you can swing that for even one month, I would consider it. I'm not saying "USE MY TRAINER!!!", I'm just saying that they are out there, and it may not be as expensive as you think. And it may really help you, especially going into winter.


That made me drop my jaw. That just isn't anywhere near anything I can even think about right now, but it's nice to know if it ever does become an option, I have a good recommendation. 



Tazzie said:


> As someone stuck doing it on their own, I do understand. My lessons are $70 when I actually get a chance to get one, and I have to haul to her. She DOES travel to others, but my area where I ride wouldn't be super conducive to having an instructor out.
> 
> The biggest hurdle you'll have to work to overcome, is getting him to relax and come out of the saddleseat headset. THAT will be probably one of your biggest hurdles, and will be what requires the most help. Once you can get him to relax and not suck back like that, you'll be able to work on engaging his back through laterals and what not (as you teach him.) Which will benefit his topline. Personally, I'd get used to his gaits before I worked on overcoming the trot to canter hurdle. Lunging could help with this a lot. Getting him to be prompt in the transitions instead of running and falling into them. This part isn't your fault nor his. He probably just was never shown it was ever ok, and it didn't sound like you knew. You should watch English Pleasure videos :lol: a lot of the people here basically halt the horse, THEN go into the canter even if the judge asked for the canter from the trot. And, this may not be the case with your boy, they ask for the canter in a very odd way. The tilt the horse's head and neck to the outside so the wall basically stops them from grabbing the wrong lead.
> 
> Just adding a few more things that will probably need to be worked on :lol: But it'll happen! Just be patient with him, and kind in knowing that this stuff will be new to him. Riding on trails is probably extremely foreign. Heck, my best friend said a lot of the horses she worked with would never have been able to work out in a wide open field. It's just not what they are used to.


I lunge him a lot, and the thing of it is, he goes straight from a walk to a canter easily and from his easy trot into a canter, it's only with me on him that it's such a long process. He actively resists going into a canter with me on his back. He likes to try to buck and drop his head when I ask for it. 

As for his headset, that video is of the BO's daughter riding him and riding him hard, the only thing I picked up from that is what not to do when riding him currently, at least as far as how tight she's holding his head. I never have his head that tucked in, I didn't even realize how to do it until I saw her do it. For the longest time I had a problem with him keeping his head all the way up and his mouth jutted forward, now he is giving me a nice soft head down position. 

We have some hills that I'm moving him up and down as a way to condition him now, it isn't a lot of space and it makes me nervous because two horses have died in that pasture in the last 6 months, so I'm cautious about using it, but you are completely right, Watch had never been ridden in a field before. Everything is all new to him, but he's very brave about it all. 

The last few weeks have been wide open pasture work, arena work and trying to get over his fears of the normal everyday things we come across. This is the most I've been able to ride and work with him, so even though I've had him 6 months, I didn't have a saddle and didn't ride more than 30 minutes bareback. 

The area I'm at, the biggest problem is, it doesn't have a great arena. But there are several pastures but it may be alright to have a trainer come in and work with us there eventually, or I'll save up the 500$ that @jenkat86 trainer costs. I just have no way of hauling him anywhere. 

I have so much to take on with him, and you guys are really giving me good places to start. I think I need to watch a lot of videos and maybe find a way to film myself so you can all give me better and more precise tips. 

Watcher was a very spur of the moment decision after moving 1200 miles and I haven't regretted it for a second and we've come a long way in just 6 months but we both have a long way to go. Y'all are awesome, thanks so much.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

watcher said:


> He actively resists going into a canter with me on his back. He likes to try to buck and drop his head when I ask for it.


Is it with just you, or does he do the same thing with other riders? I can't remember...did you have a saddle fit issue before?



watcher said:


> maybe find a way to film myself so you can all give me better and more precise tips.


If you could find a way to do this, that would be great! The knowledge on this forum is IMO, second best to an actual trainer.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

jenkat86 said:


> Is it with just you, or does he do the same thing with other riders? I can't remember...did you have a saddle fit issue before?
> 
> 
> 
> If you could find a way to do this, that would be great! The knowledge on this forum is IMO, second best to an actual trainer.


He has only been ridden by one other rider since I got him and he did everything she asked, well demanded, which is why in the video he looks really tight. With me, I think I'm fairly certain its something to do with me and him testing me or trying to see if I'm really going to make him. I honestly don't know, sometimes if I lunge him for a while before we ride, he gets the bucks out but sometimes he'll still drop his head and start, which unseats me because I've not got great legs to hang on and his canter is so lofty so it throws me up, so I get more nervous. It's shaken my confidence a bit. I'm trying to get a couple good round of canters in every time, but he also really struggles with listening to leg cues, even with the other rider she commented on that. So when we do arena canters, he tends to make really short sharp turns in our circles and won't stick to the rail. 

I'll definitely find a way to film myself, as humbling as it'll probably be :-? haha but I really do need some guidance.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'd spend a month doing nothing but walking, walking, walking. out and about, on a loose rein. spend time getting him confident and relaxed, working on him allowing his neck to drop down (don't tell him where to put it). walk uphill and down, do serpentines around trees. 

have a program of relaxation and confidence building. 

then, go to trot. don't ask for a canter if it's going to be a mess.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Definitely try and film yourself, it'd help us help you.

Could you have someone lunge you on him? See if maybe you can transfer how he is on the lunge to when you're riding him. And I'd check the saddle fit and have him adjusted. Izzie becomes quite the cow when she's out of alignment.

This isn't a good video of them, but it's my best friend and her Half Arab mare. This was before my current Dressage told her to let go of that mare's face and trust her, or sell her. She decided to trust her. But I don't have any current videos of her sadly. My best friend does have Sadie go trot to canter, but it has spurned her in the ring at times. Most of the ones we see are discouraged from doing it.










I would save up and get the trainer. It'll get you guys further along than trying to go at it on your own, especially when you're changing his discipline.

I'd also like to hope he was at a trainer that believed in utilizing an arena. A lot of the Saddlebred barns I've seen just have a track and they never learn how to bend and ride off the rail.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

watcher said:


> He has only been ridden by one other rider since I got him and he did everything she asked, well demanded, which is why in the video he looks really tight. With me, I think I'm fairly certain its something to do with me and him testing me or trying to see if I'm really going to make him. I honestly don't know, sometimes if I lunge him for a while before we ride, he gets the bucks out but sometimes he'll still drop his head and start, which unseats me because I've not got great legs to hang on and his canter is so lofty so it throws me up, so I get more nervous. It's shaken my confidence a bit. I'm trying to get a couple good round of canters in every time, but he also really struggles with listening to leg cues, even with the other rider she commented on that. So when we do arena canters, he tends to make really short sharp turns in our circles and won't stick to the rail.
> 
> I'll definitely find a way to film myself, as humbling as it'll probably be :-? haha but I really do need some guidance.


I'd do some exercises on your own to strengthen your legs. You're going to need it.

As for not understanding leg cues, watch the videos I posted. You'll see Saddleseat is typically ridden with the legs sticking straight out. There is a very, very good chance he has no idea what you're asking of him. You're going to have to basically start him like a baby, but even worse than one. Babies are at least a blank slate. He has a lot of training you have to undo before you can redo it.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

Tazzie said:


> I'd do some exercises on your own to strengthen your legs. You're going to need it.
> 
> As for not understanding leg cues, watch the videos I posted. You'll see Saddleseat is typically ridden with the legs sticking straight out. There is a very, very good chance he has no idea what you're asking of him. You're going to have to basically start him like a baby, but even worse than one. Babies are at least a blank slate. He has a lot of training you have to undo before you can redo it.


I did actually notice that, and I did notice that his gaits almost force me into having my legs like that instead of on him, so I've been working harder on just keeping my legs on him. 

I think all of those are really, really good points. He has so much training. The lady who was going to put him down dropped 80K on his training, so I have a lot of work to do. He likes riding in pastures. He's brave when it comes to things that make him nervous and I'm going slow. For me and for him, I don't have the strength to to just ride, and he doesn't have the muscle to just be ridden hard. I think from what I've gotten with these comments is I'm doing okay, and have some really good things to work on.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Try not to think and only focus on that. If you're relaxed and not tensing up on him, your legs *should* fall where they need to be. Bonus, you relaxing will allow him to relax. I do agree with Tiny about just walking. I'd mentioned earlier getting him to relax to lower his headset. We are NOT saying yank and crank it down, but rather allow him to relax and start using himself. Allow his head to come down and into the contact. Add a bit of bending and softening. Even if he only puts it down an inch to start with, I'd praise the heck out of him. You have to start somewhere.

And that's a lot to spend on training! Now I'm curious where he was. My friend (in the videos) knows a lot of different barns in this general area (Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana and some in Illinois.)


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

He was from Select Show Horses in Noblesville, IN. About 30 minutes north of Indianapolis. They do great things, from what I've heard, its just his old owner that was one of those horse people that doesn't really care that much for the animal more what the animal can do for her. 

That's exactly where I'm going to keep working, just easing him out of that saddleseat mentality and movements.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I'll have to ask and see if she's heard of them. And sadly, A LOT of Saddlebred and Arab people are that way. I'm sure it's in other disciplines too, but those are what I'm used to at this point. It's always a shame.

And it's a solid plan I think  just keep picking at it!


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@Tazzie was that video of the freestyle supposed to be dressage? I think she was riding in a dressage saddle. I hope you'll excuse me if I'm asking a stupid question. where i live, there is little Saddlebred oriented disciplines, not at all.

I have seen it a few times, and I know that it's a challengeing discipline. but, it seems like riding a 'bomb', quite often. it seems the OP's job, if she chooses to accept it, is to difuse the 'bomb' mentality in this horse's mind.

saddlbebreds and saddlebred crosses are wonderful, brave, intelligent horses with so much 'brio'. but, to me, it seems like there is no real pleasure in seeing them ridden as they do in most Saddlebred shows. I realize this is coming from a place of ignorance, but the horses look tense and stressed. not something I"d want to seek on purpose.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

She did indeed borrow my dressage saddle and bridle for the freestyle, but that is not what she typically rides in. She rode in it to have all black tack for her freestyle. She did do a bit of leg yielding and such, and rode more like an equitation horse (equitation horses have to do circles and what not; typical Saddlebreds or half Arabs ride the rail and that's all they do.) She was just about to start working with my Dressage trainer right around that time.

Sadly, a lot of the Saddlebreds are a bit... nutso and encouraged to be that way. This particular friend doesn't use gimmicks/firecrackers/etc. The way she describes how she works with them is she allows them to express themselves how they would want to be. There isn't any holding back. They are allowed to get ramped up. A lot of the ones I've seen show I won't even go near them. I stick to the rail and I won't cross paths with them. My friend on the other hand I'll help them, hold them, and if I was brave I'd ride them. Hers don't typically look tense or stressed at all. The mare in those particular videos is an extremely game mare, but not dangerous. She won't take off with you unless you cue her to gallop (which is a super long, kissy noise!)

Hard to call yourself ignorant when you're asking questions :wink:

This is her on a Saddlebred she was training. She nicknamed him Goldfish since he had a relatively short attention span and would forget things in seconds (like the mounting block wasn't scary, but now it totally is even though it was JUST seen.) He wasn't tense or stressed. It was the first time he'd ridden in that ring, and that ring is HUGE and overwhelming. It was also the first time he'd ever snorted, which is a big thing in that industry. Goldfish was a VERY good boy who really did want to try hard.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

tinyliny said:


> @Tazzie was that video of the freestyle supposed to be dressage? I think she was riding in a dressage saddle. I hope you'll excuse me if I'm asking a stupid question. where i live, there is little Saddlebred oriented disciplines, not at all.
> 
> I have seen it a few times, and I know that it's a challengeing discipline. but, it seems like riding a 'bomb', quite often. it seems the OP's job, if she chooses to accept it, is to difuse the 'bomb' mentality in this horse's mind.
> 
> saddlbebreds and saddlebred crosses are wonderful, brave, intelligent horses with so much 'brio'. but, to me, it seems like there is no real pleasure in seeing them ridden as they do in most Saddlebred shows. I realize this is coming from a place of ignorance, but the horses look tense and stressed. not something I"d want to seek on purpose.



He's definitely a bomb, waiting to explode time and time again. We had an incident a few weeks ago where I dismounted, because I felt the saddle was loose and then the saddle slipped and he tore the reins out of my hands and took off across the arena with a saddle under him. It was scary and then he managed to snap his bridle. I fixed everything but it was the worst moment I've had with him as far as fear. I can pull that blame all the way in my lap. I'm lucky he wasn't hurt. For the most part, what we're working with he is relaxed, especially if I compare it to how it used to be, he's come a long way from the incredibly spooky animal I got. 

I don't like the saddleseat for me personally, it has its beauty and its place but I just landed with a saddlebred trained horse. I'm definitely working him into an English pleasure, trail riding horse. It'll take a few years to get him to where I want him, but that's all the fun. Plus my legs are getting jacked. 

As far as intelligence goes, I'm sure most of the saddlebred crosses are very smart, and most of the Arab x saddlebreds I've been exposed to are very smart. Watcher, very lovingly, isn't. He's earnest and loving, but he is very aptly named. Like Goldfish, Skywatcher has his head in the clouds. I don't think I've ever met a horse that is just as, I'm trying to phrase it the right way because I think the sun shines out of my horses butt regardless of his quirks, but he's one of the dumbest horses I've ever met. I'm not basing that off his riding, or things we have to work through. I'm basing it off his interactions with the herd, and his surroundings. It's hard to explain without sounding awful but as much as I love my gelding, he's a day dreamer and not the kind of horse to every figure things out himself. He's brave when I'm on him, because he trusts me. He lets me know he's nervous, and I tell him it's alright and he will try for me. But he's the kid in class that would eat glue.

Yes, everything is new, and different and he's adjusting, but there's just that part of him that needs a safety helmet for life.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

watcher said:


> As far as intelligence goes, I'm sure most of the saddlebred crosses are very smart, and most of the Arab x saddlebreds I've been exposed to are very smart. Watcher, very lovingly, isn't. He's earnest and loving, but he is very aptly named. Like Goldfish, Skywatcher has his head in the clouds. I don't think I've ever met a horse that is just as, I'm trying to phrase it the right way because I think the sun shines out of my horses butt regardless of his quirks, but he's one of the dumbest horses I've ever met. I'm not basing that off his riding, or things we have to work through. I'm basing it off his interactions with the herd, and his surroundings. It's hard to explain without sounding awful but as much as I love my gelding, he's a day dreamer and not the kind of horse to every figure things out himself. He's brave when I'm on him, because he trusts me. He lets me know he's nervous, and I tell him it's alright and he will try for me. But he's the kid in class that would eat glue.


:clap: This is hilarious.


----------



## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

I agree with Jenkat lol that was kind of hilarious.

Just adds to his personality :wink:

Far as Saddleseat (which at the county fairs it's called English Pleasure, so what you're working on is just plain old pleasure riding :wink, it's kind of fun to try to break up things, but I'll always be a Dressage rider through and through. It's what I like, it's what I'm good at. But my friend's mare is a blast to ride when you don't know how to ride Saddleseat. She's the type that takes care of her rider. Unless it's her mom. And then she's a handful :lol:

As for the bomb ready to explode... it's quite accurate. I know they like that, but.... I'm good lol I feel that way with Izzie when she has her game face on, but that's usually when I have the best rides. She's in tune with me, and sharp to my aids at that point. But if I ask something wrong, we're out of here. Makes me a better rider when she's game like that.

For pleasure riding though.... definitely focus on getting him to relax. It's needed. He'll get there though!


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

Okay so I am in some desperate need of advice. Watcher has started becoming extremely, extremely hard to catch. It started a few times with him just imitating a mare that pins her ears and runs away when she thinks you're trying to catch her. 

Then he started acting like these two mares were his mares, so he would herd them away and they hated it and would try to kick and get him to back off, but he's an idiot and doesn't understand clues. Even with that I could still catch him in about 5 minutes. 

Then they introduced a new horse into the herd. PC, this horse is just awful. He beat up on the nice big gelding and almost shattered his nasal cavity with kicks. So since they started fighting, they just put those two together to work things out, the best idea? I don't know. But they were fine.

But that left my gelding alone, in a herd of all other mares, except another gelding who is still with him mom and has no desire to do anything but stick by mom and eat. 

And watcher became studly. He now would corral his mares away from me, running them away, and I had to start getting whichever mare he was herding into the arena, shut the arena gate, then into the fed area and shut that gate and then I'd finally be able to catch him after ten more minutes of him thinking about jumping the fences. One of the mares he herded in actually did. 

Then we put him in with the other geldings and he did better, but he still had this can't catch me attitude, but back to the being able to pressure him into letting me put a halter on him in about 5 minutes. 

He perks up when he sees me, and I am always super gentle with my approach, give him good rubs when he lets me catch him but lately its been taking me 20+ minutes to catch my normally fairly placid gelding. He's acting like these are his mares and he needs to keep them and himself away from me, the minute I catch him he's fine and acts like normal.

What am I doing wrong? How can I fix this?


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

How big is the area that he is turned out in?


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

jenkat86 said:


> How big is the area that he is turned out in?


Depends on which day, but all the pastures are 5 acres or larger. I had him turned out in a field with a recovering emaciated gelding, and that area that is the size of the arena.


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

He's being a disrespectful turd. 

This is one of those things that everyone has a different method for. 

The only method I've been successful with is the "walking them down" method. However, it's much easier in a smaller area. 

Basically, if he starts to move away from you, put pressure on him. This method will benefit you in three ways: 

1) You and him are going to get a work out/ conditioning. He's turned out in a large area. You both are going to be moving...so wear comfortable boots.

2) You will start gaining his respect.

3) After some time and patience, you will be able to catch your horse pretty effortlessly. 

Start walking calmly towards him. You want to get him into an area, like a large corner, that you can control better. Then make him move. Don't let him stop moving until he will stand quietly and let you approach. If he moves off once you approach, start the process again. 

Expect for it to take awhile, especially since he's turned out in such a large area. Bonus if he catches on quickly!

Here's a pretty good thread to reference: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/horse-wont-let-me-put-halter-679314/


Good tools in there!


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

jenkat86 said:


> He's being a disrespectful turd.


Understatement of the century. Thank you, this is great advice. I'm glad I had him moved to the smallest pasture. He's picking up all sorts of bad habits lately.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

Well I asked for Watch to be moved to a smaller pasture, and the smaller pasture is with this sweet old gelding, who for some reason in the middle of a show barn, became emaciated to the point of death. So now he's at my barn, recovering and he needed a buddy so I voluntold Watcher to be that horse. Since it was a smaller area, I could keep him moving until he thought his little game wasn't fun anymore. 

So for about 20 minutes I chased around my high spirited half arab. By the end he was sweating and drooling but he stopped when I asked and let me halter him. It was actually kind of fun, and he learned a lot. He did try to use Albert as a shield but this poor gelding, he is the most calm sweet horse I've met, he would just move aside like 'oh okay, I guess I'm going this way'. 

Then I had a long weekend and didn't get to go out and see him so I went out yesterday and he was in a larger pasture with Albert. First look at me, Watcher was running away, all to the other end of the field so I pet Albert for a second and then start walking towards Watcher. Then he comes galloping back and the gate area is like a chute, so you can't turn around easily and I could block him in, but he just wanted to be by Albert. He let me halter him and lead him out. 

Then they both started calling out to each other. Albert was running up and down the pasture looking for Watch and calling and Watcher, in the cross ties at this point, was just whinnying back. I think for the first time Watcher was with another horse who didn't hate him and they became buddies. So I asked that they stay together. 








Our ride was still iffy but I made it a workout instead of a ride, we did just easy arena work, he tried to buck me off a couple times, I'm still not sure why, but then we went into work mode and I quit when we were both sweating a little bit more than usual. 

The BO's daughter wanted to try and make him stand pretty but it didn't work, but I snapped a few pictures. I think he looks pretty well set up.














He's starting having this really weird issue where he will just throw his head like a fly has landed on it when we're riding. I know it isn't a fly. When I make him stop to set his head he starts protesting and will start to step wildly around try to rear and buck. I'm not in his mouth too much and the bit isn't too tight, any suggestions on why he does this would be appreciated. It's one of our biggest struggles. 

I also think he looks like a Mule with his winter coloring. He went from a bronze like bay to a darker bay color with a light colored nose and his black socks are taking on the same lighter coloring as his nose. I think it's pretty cute.


----------



## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

This weekend was the best ever with Watcher. I've had him 6 months now and we've only ever ridden in the arena and in the pastures. The BO's daughter and I decided to take the horses out into a plowed field to just let them run a little more. Watcher is a bit barn sour and he'll still try to buck me off when we go into a canter. His canter is so lofty, I get nervous so I don't let him canter very much, mostly my fear, but I'm working through it. 

But we did take them on trail rides! It was his first one, and he was a champ, first day was just a quick small trail through the woods. He wasn't even on alert, just very relaxed. Yesterday we did a two hour trail ride, and I am just so proud of him.

First he had to cross a small ditch with running water, it took about five minutes and then he just went for it and did a little graceful leap over. Then we had to get him onto a sidewalk and he's scared of pavement so that took a bit of time but when he saw that his mare friend was fine, he got on the sidewalk. He walked across a bridge and then went into a tunnel under the road that was only six inches above his head and he wasn't even concerned. He was a star! I'm just so proud of my brave boy. All these new things and he didn't let it phase him at all. 

Except for the horse eating boulder we passed, he was not cool with that rock.


----------



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Yay for Watcher! and boo to the boulder. My mare is afraid of logs on the ground oddly enough. 

Trail riding makes everyone feel better. Glad you got to go!


----------



## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Keep doing those trail rides. It will help him and you!

It sounds like you guys are making some great progress!


----------

