# Mare kicks my feet when riding



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Wow that's weird - can you get a video? I can't even picture that!! I've seen horses bite feet, but not kick at them  
Subbing to see responses


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Hmm. Interesting indeed. 

What's the rest of her body language doing when she does that? Is she pinning ears? Is she turning her head around, as if to bite?

When is she not wanting to go forward? Why?

Mostly I'm getting at here first is if she's uncomfortable or in pain from something. Horses are odd animals and will lash out in varying ways from pain (if that's the culprit). Any recent dentist, chiro, or farrier checks?

If she's fine there, then it's a matter of she's throwing a tantrum and needs to be made to work. What if you carrying a crop to smack her leg with when she tries to kick? (May need a crop in each hand and a lot of coordination!!!) THen you are not punishing her with a leg cue of any sort, since she's fairly light that way, but still getting your point across that its not acceptable.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Beau makes 2 good points that got me thinking:
1) pain, my mare cowkicks her belly ALL the time in the summer when bugs are bothering her (she has an allergy to bugs and her belly is horribly itchy) she'll paw at her belly too. I wonder if your horse has some issue with her belly (maybe ulcers) that you're exacerbating by applying leg pressure? I would look into that fully
2) beau also mentions about whacking her with a crop - I find this to work really well - when you hit the offending limb they connect the dots much faster. I've only dealt with this with unmounted kicking and striking, but I found hitting the offending limb to work best, if you can make them go into the hit even better (they did it to themselves). It hurts them more to kick you than to just go.

Now my only other thought, pain and grouchiness ruled out - how old is this horse and how green? Do you mix up her riding or does she get bored? I think making riding and leg pressure a more positive thing might make her less bothered by it. So make riding enjoyable for her even sneaking her treats when she does something well.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

She has had a recent chiropractor visit. Saddle fit is fine as well. She doesn't want to go occasionally after I've worked her for awhile when she starts to get tired she will try to stay stationary. It is definitely weird I've never had a horse kick at me while trotting lol. She's a coordinated girl I guess lol. I don't have a video but next time I ride ill film it maybe we can catch her. It can't be a tooth issue she has been floated some wha recently but lately I've been riding her in a hackemore anyways. I kinda think she's being overly sensitive. I will carry my riding crop and see if I can smack her but she get kinda hateful when hit with a whip mostly I use a whip as a motivator by swishing it or letting her see I have it that tends to work the best. Man I tell you training Joy is never boring lol.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

She is ten years old she has been in training for the past few months. Been trying to bring her back up to speed again. She has always been sensitive about her sides and belly. When she was younger she used to cow kick at my hands when I touched her belly. I broke her of that did lots of densensitizing. She only kicks at my feet when the leg pressure is applied. I'd call her green broke since she been a pasture pet for awhile. Now something that's interesting is I can change her leads and speed know problem when we sort cattle. She is all about moving those steers. But I think it's because she is so focused on the steer she doesn't worry about being fussy.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Is she sensitive on her sides and belly on the ground too? If you push into her side where your foot goes with your hand about as strong as you would with your foot will she react the same? I'm going to say that's pain not oversensitive. It really could be ulcers or other stomach issues. Most horses aren't that sensitive on their sides unless somethings really bothering them.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Perhaps you might try listening to her. If she's tired, continuing accomplishes nothing. She's telling you she's had enough. Don't turn it into an ego trip whereby your will has to win.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

PunksTank said:


> Is she sensitive on her sides and belly on the ground too? If you push into her side where your foot goes with your hand about as strong as you would with your foot will she react the same? I'm going to say that's pain not oversensitive. It really could be ulcers or other stomach issues. Most horses aren't that sensitive on their sides unless somethings really bothering them.


Oh this horse has always been sensitive ever since we bought her as a 6 month old. If I were to touch her when she was younger I mean no pressure just touch she would kick at my hand. Let me tell you I had a bruised hand a few times. Anyways lots of desensentizing later I can pet or brush her sides belly no problem. But occasionally when I first apply my hand or brush she will twitch her skin. So I think she is sensitive skinned. If I apply pressure the same place my leg is with my hands there are not any problems I actually already thought of that an tried it out. She has been taught to move over to pressure. I can disengage her hind quarters when light pressure from my hands on the ground. I highly doubt it's stomach ulcers.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Perhaps you might try listening to her. If she's tired, continuing accomplishes nothing. She's telling you she's had enough. Don't turn it into an ego trip whereby your will has to win.


No ego trip here I'm not trying to win, not sure why you think it is that way.... I'm not working her hard the cattle sorting is once a month and I just ride her for a little bit about 30 minutes, it just to give her something different to do. I bring my gelding to ride as well. I'm not a team penner but it gives my barrel horse something else to think about there about 20 people who go to this ranch and practice . I ride her maybe an hour at a time tops when we do training sessions and trail riding. The foot kicking can happen right as we start out so its not always cause she tired. I'm not running around mostly she gets walked and trotted around. She's not really confident in a canter yet so like I said almost all walk trot work, short cantering sessions. I don't really want to push her a lot at the moment trying to get her more confident and better conditioning


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

This is not all that uncommon. I had a spoiled horse in to retrain several years ago. I used a soft leg to ask her to move and she laid her ears back and switched her tail. I was wearing spurs so I pressed a spur into her side and she cow-kicked my foot so hard and hung her toe on my spur that she nearly broke my foot. She never did it again! She found out that was not a good idea.

Anything you accept (like her kicking at your foot) is exactly what you are teaching her to do. It is just as sure as if that was your object in the first place. If you do not interrupt unacceptable behavior and scold or punish a horse in some way for the behavior, it will happen again but probably with more force and more serious consequences. 

Just like a horse should be reprimanded for kicking at a person that is tightening a girth or brushing its belly, it should be reprimanded for any aggressive action while a rider is mounted. You should set firm but fair boundaries and and be 100% consistent in how you enforce them. Not only does that make the horse a 'better trained horse' but it keeps one happy and it keeps its riders and handlers safer.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Cherie said:


> This is not all that uncommon. I had a spoiled horse in to retrain several years ago. I used a soft leg to ask her to move and she laid her ears back and switched her tail. I was wearing spurs so I pressed a spur into her side and she cow-kicked my foot so hard and hung her toe on my spur that she nearly broke my foot. She never did it again! She found out that was not a good idea.
> 
> Anything you accept (like her kicking at your foot) is exactly what you are teaching her to do. It is just as sure as if that was your object in the first place. If you do not interrupt unacceptable behavior and scold or punish a horse in some way for the behavior, it will happen again but probably with more force and more serious consequences.
> 
> Just like a horse should be reprimanded for kicking at a person that is tightening a girth or brushing its belly, it should be reprimanded for any aggressive action while a rider is mounted. You should set firm but fair boundaries and and be 100% consistent in how you enforce them. Not only does that make the horse a 'better trained horse' but it keeps one happy and it keeps its riders and handlers safer.


I absolutely agree with you she and she is a bit spoiled. Like I said she's been a pasture pet for a few years and so she hasn't really had to work hard till recently. When she used to cow kick my hand I'd smack her with the whip. And give her praise when she'd accept my hands being there. It took some work but I got her to quit that but now I guess she thinks she can so that when were in the saddle. She doesn't pin her ears much when this happens though she does tail swish some. I sometimes find myself at a loss correcting her with a whip though. Whips escalate her behavior she can turn into a hateful ****** bear pretty fast. I'm not afraid to correct her (or any horse) with the whip but when she gets hateful she won't always let it go she will get worse. So usually I move her feet to get her to act right. Getting her to submit this way goes much better and keeps her attitude in check. Her attitude has greatly improved we are communicating so much better I finally feeling like I'm starting to understand the way she thinks. This foot kicking thing just sorta started one day. If the whip makes things worse when she kicks my foot what do you think I should do from the saddle to correct her? She thinks differently then any other horse I've had before I've learned a lot from her she is making me a better horse trainer and horsewoman. You guys on the horse forum have helped me out a lot by the way I really appreciate it .


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Well, I hate whips. I very seldom ever pick one up. I have not even had a riding crop or whip for at least 5 or 6 years. I keep a 5' stock whip around but seldom pick it up either. If I do, it usually has a plastic sack tied to the end of it.

If a horse gets mad at a whip (one of the reasons I hate them) it is because the handler / rider just 'pecks' at the horse with it. Anyway, whips make things worse instead of better many times. 

I use the long ends of my split harness leather reins. I will spank a horse's butt with an 'over and under' action and do it hard. I have never had a horse require more than one reprimand if I did it hard enough the first time. 

Nagging and pecking and swatting a horse is the worst thing one can do. They just get mad and more spoiled. If I ever have to get after a horse, I want him to think that he is lucky to be alive. Then, I do not praise him or do anything else. I just ride on like absolutely nothing happened at all. I've never had to discipline one twice if I did it right the first time.


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

Whack the heck out of her with the end of your rein and then work her. You decide when to quit, she doesn't. She's throwing a temper tantrum and it needs to quit before she hurts someone.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Cherie said:


> Well, I hate whips. I very seldom ever pick one up. I have not even had a riding crop or whip for at least 5 or 6 years. I keep a 5' stock whip around but seldom pick it up either. If I do, it usually has a plastic sack tied to the end of it.
> 
> If a horse gets mad at a whip (one of the reasons I hate them) it is because the handler / rider just 'pecks' at the horse with it. Anyway, whips make things worse instead of better many times.
> 
> ...


Yeah I'm also not a big fan of whips either. I seldom carry one as well. And like I said using a whip is pretty pointless with her. So I think I'll break out the split reins and smack her hiney good next time she does this. She definitely needs to straighten up. She's had several attitude adjustments over the past couple of months, looks like she needs another . Thank you Cherie! One of these days when I'm in southern Oklahoma I'd love to meet you. I feel like I'd learn so much more about training if I could talk to you for a bit. Wish I lived closer to you but I'm in eastern Oklahoma.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

spurstop said:


> Whack the heck out of her with the end of your rein and then work her. You decide when to quit, she doesn't. She's throwing a temper tantrum and it needs to quit before she hurts someone.


I don't disagree with you. I just wanted to see if I was doing something wrong or if she is just needed an attitude adjustment. I'd just never had it happen before so I wanted to see if it was a training issue on my part .


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

This is curious so I have a question. Does she back well? I'm asking because my first instinct to this problem would be to put those feet in motion and back the heck out of her for a good 10 minutes.


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## BlooBabe (Jul 7, 2012)

Does she know the cues? I doubt she's confused, sounds more like a tantrum, but it won't hurt to go over them again. When a mare I was working with started kicking I added verbal commands to the ground work. When pressure was applied with the verbal cue I could avoid using a whip or hitting her.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

BBBCrone said:


> This is curious so I have a question. Does she back well? I'm asking because my first instinct to this problem would be to put those feet in motion and back the heck out of her for a good 10 minutes.


Yes she backs excellently, little leg pressure and rein pressure you can back her up as much as needed. She handles great as far a flexing and turning and changing direction. Leg pressure and direct or indirect rein moves her body. More often than anything it's forward she tries to be a snot about. When she kicks me she's protesting the forward motion. She doesn't want to change speed or she doesn't want to leave the horses things like that is what's getting my feet kicked at.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I'd have the mare checked for ulcers. She could be reacting to the pain from the pressure of your heels.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Cherie said:


> Well, I hate whips. I very seldom ever pick one up. I have not even had a riding crop or whip for at least 5 or 6 years. I keep a 5' stock whip around but seldom pick it up either. If I do, it usually has a plastic sack tied to the end of it.
> 
> If a horse gets mad at a whip (one of the reasons I hate them) it is because the handler / rider just 'pecks' at the horse with it. Anyway, whips make things worse instead of better many times.
> 
> ...


I like you!:lol:


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

DancingArabian said:


> I'd have the mare checked for ulcers. She could be reacting to the pain from the pressure of your heels.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she had ulcer's wouldn't she be having weight issues? She is a really easy keeper weight wise. She keeps about the same weight. The only time she's ever lost weight was around right before we weaned her colt. As soon as jet was weaned she bounced back immediately. Even with all the extra work I've put on her she lost a little weight but healthily and she has maintained around the same weight for the past few months. Also I think that typically occurs more when horses don't have enough roughage. She and my gelding have 15 acres to themselves so plenty of roughage. I suppose it can't hurt to ask my vet about it I'll get his input. I don't have any experience with stomach ulcers. But her bratty cow kicking has been a problem I've had to deal with a few times over the years of owning her so honestly I think this is a behavioral issue not a medical one.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

It could be attitude - but I personally like to rule out all possibilities of pain before I punish them for something. It could be a number of other issues too. I suggest asking a vet what would cause her to be sensitive in those areas and check for those issues, when she's cleared - then you can kick her bum in good conscience knowing she's just being rude, not reacting to pain.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Not necessarily  I know a mare who tried to bite in response to heel pressure and she turned out to have ulcers. 

I think it's best to research every avenue of pain that could cause it and go from there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

PunksTank said:


> It could be attitude - but I personally like to rule out all possibilities of pain before I punish them for something. It could be a number of other issues too. I suggest asking a vet what would cause her to be sensitive in those areas and check for those issues, when she's cleared - then you can kick her bum in good conscience knowing she's just being rude, not reacting to pain.


Yeah I'll call my vet tomorrow and ask him about it. He's a very knowledgable horseman as well so I trust him to get a good opinion. I had her checked over by the vet before I started training though and had the Chiropractor adjust her, but I didn't ask about stomach ulcers. Being in a pasture for two years and not being ridden I wanted it to be safe for both me and her before we started out. But there's a history of her overreacting as well. Like giving shots for example it took a lot of work to get her to stand for those. I had to do a lot of work to teach her to give her head to the discomfort and relax. Let me tell you if she caught one look at a syringe be it wormer or for shots she was prepared to fight to the death. Also a history of her cow kicking when she doesnt like something before I got her to quit she would occasionally sneak cow kick me in the hand or knee. When she was young you couldn't touch your hand to her side or belly without her being a snot. We've had interesting times over the years I just try to work through each one has they come. Inconsistent handling as I was busy with school partly created a lot of these problems. Plus I'm the only one that rides in my family so most of my time was devoted to my barrel horse so she got put on the back burner a lot. Now that I'm out of college I can finally really do something with her get her going properly. My barrel horse is being given a much deserved break so nows the time to train her properly.


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## cenproweb (Sep 15, 2012)

Do you wear spurs? I saw a rider using spurs excessively. Horse was always kicking at his feet. Rider seemed oblivious to the problem.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

cenproweb said:


> Do you wear spurs? I saw a rider using spurs excessively. Horse was always kicking at his feet. Rider seemed oblivious to the problem.


NOOOO spurs on her. That would be one sure fire way to end up hitting the dirt riding her lol. I use spurs on my barrel horse but spurs would send Joy over the edge.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

For those on this thread who have said they don't like to use whips but do smack the horse with the end of the reins, what's the difference?


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

There is a HUGE difference between using a whip or crop and using long, split reins to DEMAND a horse go forward.

It is not unusual for horses to learn when the rider has a whip. This is also true for horses on the ground, too. They learn to ride and behave differently when their handler / rider has that whip in hand. They literally learn to respect (or fear) the whip but have not learned any respect for the person. I cannot count the number of times I have watched horses ride differently with a rider with or without a whip.

The other problem I see is that most riders carry a whip in the same hand all of the time. Their horses quickly learn to 'duck around' and do a 180 away from the whip any time it is raised up or used for more than a 'tap'. They also get accustomed to not responding quickly to the leg but respond to the visual 'cue' or 'aid' of the raised whip. That is NOT a legitimate cue or aid.

The difference of using the long, heavy reins is that they do not rest in the rider's right hand like a 'cocked gun'. They just are there all of the time. The other big difference is that when you learn to use an ' over and under' type of spanking action, the horse does not duck around but goes forward quickly. The 'front door' is the only one open to the horse and about any horse will get their butt through the door immediately.

If you do not think this is true, just look at how many horses spin around rather than cross water when their riders try to use a crop or whip. Reins work nearly every time to get the desired response while using a whip just usually teaches a horse to duck around and go the other direction.

Obviously, there are steps that are necessary for the rider to take when they use the end of the reins for discipline. 

First, make sure you are NOT holding the reins too tightly by pulling on the horse's mouth at the same time. You MUST leave that front door open. We only use 7 1/2 to 8 foot heavy weight harness leather reins. They are long enough to let you do this (but that is not the main reason we use them). They have enough 'feel' to them that just moving your hand a little (with slack in the reins) gives a horse a pre-signal of impending action. Well trained horses will respond to just the moving hand with the reins still slack.

Second, if a rider has to use the reins to spank a horse, then, as soon as the horse has gone on and done the right thing, the rider should repeatedly pick up the reins and swing them around so the horse does not think that every time the rider picks up the reins, a spanking is coming. We do this all of the time on every horse -- not just after a spanking.

Most importantly -- if a rider needs to spank a horse, do it hard -- never using little 'taps' or 'slaps' with those reins. Do it hard and it will be effective. If you have to spank a horse more than two or three times -- EVER -- to get forward impulsion, you just used the reins to nag and peck at the horse. You usually get a completely opposite response. The horse will get MORE obstinate and will have LESS respect for the rider's requests. If you are not prepared to spank one hard, don't bother doing it at all.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

As for ulcers -- really doubtful with a horse that is running out with access to forage all of the time. You usually see ulcers in stalled or penned horses that have no hay or forage available between 'meals'.

You also see other behaviors that show the horse is uncomfortable -- not just when asked to go forward. Since this horse has always been '****y' when anyone put pressure on her body, she has needed straightening up for it for a long time. Years ago she needed CA style groundwork using the end of a long rope to 'drive' her ribs and hips away from the handler when she acted 'ill'.

Ulcers do not always cause weight loss. As a matter of fact, you see them in some easy keepers. People frequently keep easy keepers on a diet and that means that they do not have hay in front of them all of the time. Horses on restricted hay are real common candidates for ulcers. They will sometimes be anemic, will begin cribbing or will act 'ill tempered' any time they are handled. If this is not the 'norm' for a horse, ulcers should be suspected or at least, checked for..


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Cherie said:


> There is a HUGE difference between using a whip or crop and using long, split reins to DEMAND a horse go forward.
> 
> It is not unusual for horses to learn when the rider has a whip. This is also true for horses on the ground, too. They learn to ride and behave differently when their handler / rider has that whip in hand. They literally learn to respect (or fear) the whip but have not learned any respect for the person. I cannot count the number of times I have watched horses ride differently with a rider with or without a whip.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely true! This is how I was taught!


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## cenproweb (Sep 15, 2012)

Awww. I took lessons on an extremely sensitive mare years ago. Would not tolerate heels at all. All I had to do was to put my body into position for canter and she would respond eagerly. For trot, just slightest squeeze of knees would get result. Some horses will shut down with too much pressure -- whip or reins.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

She has a history of ****y behavior her whole life when she doesn't get what she wants. I was a teenager when we got her and I didn't know as much about training as I know now and she was my only horse I didn't break to ride myself and I don't think she was broke very well to begin with. Now I've been working on her training for the past few months and this horse has made leaps and bounds in improvements in her training and her ****y attitude has actually decreased a lot, I know it doesn't sound like it but seriously it has. I have gotten several compliments on the difference in her responsiveness to cues and her attitude. Her cues are doing amazing, leg and a small hand movement is all you need with her. Honestly like I said they have 24/7 forage with plenty of grass. Any hay given in the winter is nice horse quality hay, I'm pretty picky about my hay . But they aren't on hay yet they still have plenty of grass. I'm gonna ask my vet but this really isnt surprising its not like he was always well behaved and she's suddenly acting out. She was spoiked rotten for way too long. And like I said besides the feet kicking her behavior is actually way better instead of worse. Honestly with her pattern of cow kicking over the years I'm really not surprised she's trying to kick my feet. And I think it's just time for another attitude adjustment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

accidently hit quote wanted to fix my typo


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Thanks guys for your comments. Now that I'm fairly certain this is an attitude problem not me doing something wrong with her training I will correct it appropriately. The foot kicking is going to end immediately. Ill ask the doc about the ulcers just in case. Thanks everyone for helping me become a better trainer .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Saddlebag said:


> Perhaps you might try listening to her. If she's tired, continuing accomplishes nothing. She's telling you she's had enough. Don't turn it into an ego trip whereby your will has to win.


Oh yes - let the horse decide when the workout is done. Then who 'wins'?!

If pain is ruled out (saddle fit, ulcers, back, hocks) then she is being a smart mare and trying to be done.

I would suggest at a practice to turn her towards the leg she is kicking with. Obviously she will have to put the leg down to turn - or fall. The other option is to stop and back her right then and there. Just let your partners know you are doing training runs and may have to leave a gap on the line!


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## Samhwain (Oct 24, 2012)

if you're using a western saddle you can always attach (if not already present) the 'decorative' leather strings on the back of the saddle, both sides, that way you have something to use as a popper on both sides. They're usually long enough and if you use barrel reins like what I'm familiar with ( looped and shorter than general split reins ) it'd be more beneficial.

My mare actually started cow kicking me when I was riding her bareback. She did it as a hissy fit (she had JUST had a vet check all over exam so we knew she didn't have any issues) and I went to signal her to turn and she kicked me in response. I didn't have my long reins with me (i have since switched her to my leather bridle because of this instead of the nylon bridle and reins). I don't ride with crops (all the horses I've dealt with have figured out crops and avoiding them) and my answer to her kicking me was to turn her into the offending leg to force her to put it back down immediately and work off that side of her body. She's repeated it a few times under saddle as well and every time I turned her into the offending leg ( be careful not to turn too hard since they will be 'off balance' being on only three legs and braced on only one on the offending side ) and kept her working in that direction. She has since stopped the issue and taken to cow kicking us when we go to lift her hooves instead. Bottom line if popping her good with the reins or a crop doesn't work give her a 'hard' work out in the direction of which ever leg has kicked you and keep her working there until she's willing to accept forward motion. Best yet try to recognize how she moves when she prepares to kick you so you can start heading her off and working her into that leg before she can kick. It'll teach her that attempting it will be just as quickly punished as carrying it out and she'll eventually learn that the extra work really isn't worth the effort of kicking you.

since she is so sensitive to the touch on her sides I would go ahead and go back to desensitizing her around the stomach and sides all over and varying degrees of pressure from the ground (maybe holding a looped rope and 'pulling' all over her stomach with the same force as you'd leg pressure her?) to get her to accept the pressure. It sounds to me that she just doesn't want to be told what to do and likes trying to dominate you.


best of luck with her!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

mls said:


> Oh yes - let the horse decide when the workout is done. Then who 'wins'?!
> 
> If pain is ruled out (saddle fit, ulcers, back, hocks) then she is being a smart mare and trying to be done.
> 
> I would suggest at a practice to turn her towards the leg she is kicking with. Obviously she will have to put the leg down to turn - or fall. The other option is to stop and back her right then and there. Just let your partners know you are doing training runs and may have to leave a gap on the line!


I thought the same thing when saddlebag said that but I kept my thoughts to myself. Anyways I think she is being her usual sassy self and thought she would try something new. I see moving her feet is probably this best option with her as it has been working consistently with her other dominance issues. I'm telling you Joy likes to keep it interesting I'm never bored lol. She's doing alright though I just had never had a horse do that so I was unsure of the best course of action. When she does it I've been just ignoring her protest and making her move on she typically only does it once the whole ride when it happens.


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## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> If she had ulcer's wouldn't she be having weight issues? She is a really easy keeper weight wise. She keeps about the same weight. The only time she's ever lost weight was around right before we weaned her colt.
> 
> 
> I worked with a hefty Fjord mare who was a REALLY REALLY easy keeper, and she got ulcers- dull coat, crummy attitude... so they don't always lose weight! When I suspect ulcers in a horse, I put them on u-guard (a powdered supplement from smartpak) for a few weeks... when the problem WAS ulcers, that supplement turns them right around  I can't afford $450 for scoping every time I suspect it since they aren't my horses, so $20 for a bucket that lasts a few months is a pretty good option at least to test my theory!


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## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

one more thought- have you heard of PSSM? polysaccharide storage myopathy is a disorder where the horses muscles can't properly store sugar, which manifests itself in difficulty or hesitation to move, they can be in pain and have really hard muscles... a mare of mine had this. took a special blood test from the vet to confirm, and once we found out we changed her diet and she was a new horse  just an idea, might be worth googling to see if she has any of the symptoms


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

tbcrazy said:


> Peppy Barrel Racing said:
> 
> 
> > If she had ulcer's wouldn't she be having weight issues? She is a really easy keeper weight wise. She keeps about the same weight. The only time she's ever lost weight was around right before we weaned her colt.
> ...


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## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

Peppy Barrel Racing said:


> tbcrazy said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah I talked to the vet that what he said we could just give her the medicine and see if it helps her attitude if I wanted. But she isn't always ****y just when she isn't getting her way. And she isn't dull coated at all I'd actually say her coat is luminescent. It shines even of she is dirty.
> ...


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

tbcrazy said:


> Peppy Barrel Racing said:
> 
> 
> > darn well it was worth a shot! don't you just wish we could get in their heads sometimes?!
> ...


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

tbcrazy said:


> one more thought- have you heard of PSSM? polysaccharide storage myopathy is a disorder where the horses muscles can't properly store sugar, which manifests itself in difficulty or hesitation to move, they can be in pain and have really hard muscles... a mare of mine had this. took a special blood test from the vet to confirm, and once we found out we changed her diet and she was a new horse  just an idea, might be worth googling to see if she has any of the symptoms


I looked into EPPSM and I haven't seen her display those symptoms. I have never seen her excessively sweat or felt hard and stiff muscles on her. She has coliced one before on hay before but not severely I caught it immediately and we walked her out of it. It was something about that particular hay I forget what it was but it was too much I had to have my hay man bring me different hay just for her to eat. But now that I know the symptoms, next time I exercise her good I'll double check for symptoms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spurstop (Mar 22, 2012)

DraftXDressage said:


> For those on this thread who have said they don't like to use whips but do smack the horse with the end of the reins, what's the difference?


In my experience, not a lot. I just don't carry a whip. If I did ride with a whip, it would just be there and the horse would be expected to ride and behave as normal, and the whip would just happen to be in my hand.

I also don't over and under my horse because I'm not a barrel racer or a real cowgirl. Typically I just whack them once and go on. A horse has to be really, really misbehaving for me to whack them. Kicking at feet, and making contact, is definitely need for a hit. I whack them and kick them forward and forget about it. No waving the reins around or any of that mess. Just whack and move on. I don't really feel that I need to reassure a horse after whacking them either if they were acting up. If I can, I'll get them on the side they are misbehaving or evading on, but I'm really dominant with my right hand, and it's my free hand, so sometimes that happens.

A young horse that is just getting broke, I don't hit on them. Even if its a colt and he's confused and wanting to go backward, I don't whack them. I may take my rein ends and kind of wave it back and let it hit them on the rump, but I'm not going to go to town and whale on a baby. Sometimes they just need a little encouragement and since all of mine are longed and driven, they know what it means to have something flung at their butt. If I had better dexterity, I would be more inclined to use a whip with a colt, because it would be a lot easier to reach back and tap then wave my rein around. I'll be honest and say that I can't hold on to a whip and reins very well. 

Again, I don't really see a difference between a rein and a whip. I also don't really overthink riding and training on a horse. So, whatevs.


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