# Ghost Treeless Saddles - Tell me your opinions!!



## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

How did the trial go? 

After a long history with literally no saddle I could find fitting my broad-but-short backed, low withered, WIDE shouldered gelding, and after trialing an older model of Ghost, I finally bit the bullet and got my own. I got a Quevis, made to order by my every whim, and fitted it with a shoulder relief/"Moon" girth, because my boy has an extremely forward girth groove. 

I haven't had the chance to test it properly due to weather and ground conditions, but the rides I've had were extremely comfortable to me and I loved the pressure pattern on my horses' back - even from back to front, with a wide channel and no signs at all that his withers or shoulders would pinch. I love the ability to play with girth and stirrup positions and how freely my boy moves - as if we were riding bareback!

Here's my beauty - black micropel and lorica flaps and seat, hidden pommel, embedded floral pattern. I chose synthetic materials because we often ride in wet weather and it's much easier to care for, clean and store. The materials seem very sturdy and resistant and feel very much like leather, not stiff or plastic-y at all. 

I also really enjoyed how involved our rep was in every step of fitting the Ghost to my boy and the level of detail he went into so that we got the perfect size and model for both of us.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

A person on the forum lent me theirs to try out. A very nice saddle. Badlands will also provide a trials saddle. https://www.badlandsequine.com/


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Subbing because I'm interested in learning more about these.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

@Saranda:
I absolutely love the saddle. 
My friend has two so I tried the Roma and the Qwilty.

I am purchasing the Quevis today! I prefer my legs higher when I ride.
@Hondo
They are great! I have been chatting with Marlene from badlands over the phone for the past week about different specifications I may want. She is wonderful!

This is by far the best saddle I’ve ridden in and I’ve seriously been going through saddles trying to find something Apollo likes.
I can’t say enough good things about this saddle.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

@Saranda
I’ve been struggling with the materials I want. I wanted to go synthetic because I also ride in wet weather... but I was worried about the feel.

Your saddle is beautiful!!!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks.  I'm in love with it. I was also skeptical about the feel of the materials, but honestly, it's great. Of course, you can tell the difference from real leather, but both the micropel and lorica are soft, supple, light and pleasant to the touch. Not having to oil them and easier cleaning are also a huge plus for me, as we often ride through mud, thick undergrowth, water etc.

I also chose the Quevis because I prefer my leg a bit more angled. And, as I learned from playing with the stirrup positioning, if I put the leathers on the position that's closer to the cantle, I get a naturally straight, dressage-y position, just like it would be riding bareback. For trails, fast work, endurance, jumping - I can just switch the position and get a more forward feel instantly.  

I have tried other treeless saddles in the past, too, mainly Barefoot, Trekker and Norton. I tried liking the Barefoot Cheyenne, but it kept rolling sideways off my geldings' back even with the special pad, and the rolls in front of my seat were a bit too much and kept digging in my thighs as I trotted. Same with Trekker. Don't remember much about Norton, aside that it was quite comfortable on the lesson Arab I rode back then. What, for me, sets the Ghost apart from these saddles is that it has a very distinct gullet channel and does not function as a solid pillow that is laid flatly over the horses' back. 

As I've had lots of saddles rolling sideways off my horses' back, I really tried doing that with my new Ghost, even strapped the girth loosely and tried standing in one stirrup or the other - nuh uh! It wouldn't slide, just stood where it's supposed to, as a well fitting saddle should.  And, what is even more important - my boy has become really positive about being saddled! He's quite "vocal" about any discomforts and bringing up the saddle, in the past, was a sensitive topic for him.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

don't those leathers pinch your thigh? does it have something like a 'fender' that a person could use to put between their thigh and the horse?


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

You can get fenders and they also have models that imitate classical English and Iberian saddles, with longer saddle flaps! However, riding in the arena and the woods, I am yet to feel any pinching. 

Here's an example with a Ghost with fenders I got off the internet:


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

And you can also order slip-on fenders for models like Quevis or Quilty, which are mainly meant as endurance saddles and come with short flaps:


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

Saranda,
Thanks so much for posting a photo of your saddle. I actually based the one I just ordered in yours - only difference is the stamp.
🙂
I love that hidden pommel.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

You'll love it!  A bonus to the hidden pommel - it adds to the structure of the saddle and holds the saddle better over the withers at high intensity work.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Make sure to come back and tell us what you think of it! I have a hard-to-fit mare so this might be the solution.


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## Hondo (Sep 29, 2014)

ApolloRider said:


> [MENTION=22907
> [USER=146122]@Hondo[/USER]
> I have been chatting with Marlene from badlands over the phone for the past week about different specifications I may want. She is wonderful!


Yes. Marlene instantly became one of my favorite people after her first response to an inquiry. So helpful and so trustworthy. A vendor that actually cares.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

@Hondo 
She offers a ride around her area of Oregon. I would love to drive down since I’m only a few hours away. Maybe someday!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Came to a realization today that my boy has lost a bit of his topline over the winter and not doing anything remarkable during this time. As a result, my saddle started tipping a bit forwards doe to his bum-high comformation. No worries though, as I just could narrow the panels a bit at the front and that solved the tipping and my balance issues at once.  

And, as soon as he regains his muscling, I'll be able to reposition the panels in just a few minutes.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

Yeah isn’t it great?
I’m still using my friends while I am waiting for mine and I’ve used it on a draft cross who is huge and built like a tank and my saddlebred who is a bean pole. All I need to do is adjust the panels and I am golden! Love that saddle!!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

One thing I'd warn anyone getting a Ghost saddle about - you should get shorter stirrup leathers. I'm now looking for a pair, because the saddle is SO much closer to the horse that there's no bulk of leather that'd take up the place and you just need shorter leathers. That's not a huge problem, but something to be considerate about nonetheless.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

Way head of you. My dealer ordered short for me but they could still be to long.

I usually use children’s leathers so if they are to long I have extras in my size.

Children’s leathers are cheaper too!
You’re welcome )


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Haha, I just ordered a pair of childrens' leathers earlier this morning, before I saw your comment. Great minds think alike!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Heck, I already wear children's breeches... it's like this saddle is made for me! 

Wish I could find a dealer locally. Still interested in trying it, but would have to pay to have it shipped to me and back, and I'm a bit gun-shy from trying on... oh, half a dozen saddles that were supposed to be the perfect fit for my mare.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

@acadian
That’s the fabulous thing about it. You can seriously adjust it to ANY horse. 
Let’s say 99%...
The panels are Velcro so you can adjust width - get thicker panels.. heck you can even change the style because it will come off the “tree” it’s so wonderful.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

@acadian are you near Vancouver? If you are ever near Bellingham you can take a look at mine.
Marlene is from Oregon.
It’s not super far but I don’t know what shipping is to go to Canada 😕


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ApolloRider said:


> @acadian
> That’s the fabulous thing about it. You can seriously adjust it to ANY horse.
> Let’s say 99%...
> The panels are Velcro so you can adjust width - get thicker panels.. heck you can even change the style because it will come off the “tree” it’s so wonderful.


Ugh, I know... I do want to try one first though. I mean, they said that about the adjustable gullets in Wintecs and other saddles, and they still don't really fit well. I know it's not the same thing, but I have spent a lot of my saddle budget shipping saddles back and forth for trials that didn't work out! I'd at least want to sit in one. Maybe I'll have a chance to do so on my upcoming trip to Italy.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ApolloRider said:


> @acadian are you near Vancouver? If you are ever near Bellingham you can take a look at mine.
> Marlene is from Oregon.
> It’s not super far but I don’t know what shipping is to go to Canada 😕


Hahaha.... I am closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver. 

Wayyyyyy east here. Like two hours car ride from the Atlantic ocean.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

Well to give you perspective:
I used the same saddle on a Percheron cross, a saddlebred, Arabian and a MFT.

Very versatile haha.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ApolloRider said:


> Well to give you perspective:
> I used the same saddle on a Percheron cross, a saddlebred, Arabian and a MFT.
> 
> Very versatile haha.


Well, I have two issues with my mare: first, she is slightly rump high, so I tend to fall forward a bit. Secondly, she has a sharp dip behind her shoulder, so the saddle can bridge. If it sits behind her shoulder (which I think it should), then it falls forward even more. So maybe a Ghost saddle would fix these problems, but then again, maybe it wouldn't  If I could find someone local who has one, I could at least see if there is hope, but alas, I haven't found that yet. The width of the saddle is obviously just one aspect of the fitting when you're dealing with a complex back such as my mare's.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Sometimes a bit of additional shimming might be in order with especially hard to fit horses, but it's easily done by adjusting the padding in the Ghost panels and the saddle pad. A good rep should be able to explain everything and to help adjusting the saddle for the particular horse.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Saranda said:


> Sometimes a bit of additional shimming might be in order with especially hard to fit horses, but it's easily done by adjusting the padding in the Ghost panels and the saddle pad. A good rep should be able to explain everything and to help adjusting the saddle for the particular horse.


But this is the crux of my problem. I can't get a rep to come out here. The closest dealer to me is in Manitoba. I'm in New Brunswick. That is like a 6 hour plane ride from here. 

I have this problem with any saddle. I had bought a Schleese, and was hopeful that someone was going to be in my area in June (though that was far from certain), but it turned out the saddle was much too narrow and probably could not have been adjusted, so I have sold it. 

There is someone who claims to be a saddle fitter who goes around measuring your horse and making recommendations, and I am seriously thinking of biting the bullet and paying the 500$ for them to come to my place, but no one here has ever even heard of a Ghost saddle so that won't even be a consideration. 

Saddle fitting in remote, rural areas is a nightmare.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh, I don't have a local rep, too. The closest and most accessible to my area is a rep in Poland, who helped me in every step of the way to really fit the saddle to the horse and myself. With Ghosts, it's totally doable via online communication, providing clear measurements, pictures and videos.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Saranda said:


> Oh, I don't have a local rep, too. The closest and most accessible to my area is a rep in Poland, who helped me in every step of the way to really fit the saddle to the horse and myself. With Ghosts, it's totally doable via online communication, providing clear measurements, pictures and videos.


I get that, but how do you know if you're going to like a Ghost saddle if you never get to try one?


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Fair enough, cannot argue with that.  I got lucky as somebody local had an older model and I got the chance to borrow it and try it out once.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Saranda said:


> Fair enough, cannot argue with that.  I got lucky as somebody local had an older model and I got the chance to borrow it and try it out once.


I did put out feelers on Facebook to see if anyone anywhere near me has one... no takers yet. And I'm visiting a stable in Italy in June, so if I'm lucky, maybe they'll have one kicking around. Would love to at least sit in one before I take the plunge.


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

I’m crossing my fingers for you!!!


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

I am the Ghost rep for the Portland/metro area.

To answer your question: "Tell me you opinions", I'll tell you why I jumped at the opportunity to fit and sell these in my area.

I can write you a novel about why this life-long die-hard German-made hard, slick, flat saddle affectionado decided why treeless would be the way to go for my horses. I'll skip the fitting-pilgrimage I endured with my rescues and just start at: I had decided it was time to just go treeless.

I have never been a fan of treless, and I would not be converting without a fight. Having ridden in Stubbens, Passiers and Keiffers all my life, I am used to a nice, stable feel, and a real twist. Every treeless saddle I found felt like it was prying my hips apart. Painful. I couldn't get proper contact with the horse with my legs, because there was no twist. I wasn't impressed with the weight distribution or stability at all. I'm an engineer, and finding a design that really distributes weight like a tree is intended to do was just falling short. In addition, I had broken my back, and more than 30 minutes in any saddle was making me want to cry.

I sat in a Ghost at a PNER convention, felt the twist, and didn't want to get out of the saddle. Marlene (Badlands Equine) knows I like to see how things work, and told me to go ahead and take it apart. So I sat there on the floor and disassembled every last piece of that saddle. I loved it. Ordered it on the spot. The thought that has gone into the design to distribute the weight is impressive. From the carbon-fiber base, to the laminated layers within the panels, to the rigging, the saddle does great at balancing the flexibility needed to conform to a horse's shape with distributing weight and preventing pressure-points. The have panels, like English saddles, so the spine channel is not an issue. They are not one size fits all and need to be fitted and balanced to your horse. They are super-adjustable.

My very picky Anglo-Arabian with the massive shoulder moves very happily mile after mile in her Ghost. She completed her first 30 mile LD in one with perfect scores for her back at the vet-check. I can ride all day without any pain (I attribute this to the narrow twist and the great position it places me in)

They are hand-made in Italy, using quality materials. I have one saddle that I have ridden hard in for 3 years, and it's in perfect shape. I ride rough trails in all kinds of weather. I am in Mounted Search and Rescue, and I can pack on plenty of gear too. There are tons of combinations of materials and colors and styles to choose from. Each is custom-made to whatever you can dream up. And they are remarkably affordable for the quality, workmanship, and materials that you get. The latest generation of the carbon-fiber base is stable enough that you can even jump in the Ghost Italy model (or any of them, actually).

I have been very surprised and happy with my saddles. When Badlands Equine asked for local fitters and sellers, I jumped up and down "pick me, pick me!". I love representing a product that I really understand and am a fan of.

I have more about the design and models on my website and FB page. Feel free to browse and ask questions. I am adding more photos as soon as I get some time.

https://equinekarma.com/
https://www.facebook.com/equinekarma/



Attaching a couple glamour shots too.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> I get that, but how do you know if you're going to like a Ghost saddle if you never get to try one?


We have a demo program. You pay a deposit on the saddle, and shipping. Deposit is refunded when the saddle is returned in the same condition. You're out the shipping. I insist on 3 good rides in it before making a decision.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

freia said:


> We have a demo program. You pay a deposit on the saddle, and shipping. Deposit is refunded when the saddle is returned in the same condition. You're out the shipping. I insist on 3 good rides in it before making a decision.


I'm in Canada. Do you still offer that across the border?


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> I'm in Canada. Do you still offer that across the border?


Let me check. I personally do not. My region is in about a 100 mile radius of Vancouver, WA.
We have a rep in Tennessee. There are a few in Canada. I know, Canada is huge...

Can you give me your location, and I'll find out who is closest to you and see if anyone can help you out. You can PM me if you would rather keep your location private.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

freia said:


> Let me check. I personally do not. My region is in about a 100 mile radius of Vancouver, WA.
> We have a rep in Tennessee. There are a few in Canada. I know, Canada is huge...
> 
> Can you give me your location, and I'll find out who is closest to you and see if anyone can help you out. You can PM me if you would rather keep your location private.


I am in New Brunswick, and I believe the closest rep is in Manitoba. As you'll note if you look at a map, that's really, really far.  

I'd love to try one, but after buying and selling a number of saddles, and losing money every single time, I am not prepared to trial a Ghost saddle without ever having seen one in person. Especially given that the shipping across the country will be expensive. Maybe someday... but right now, it makes no sense.


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> I am in New Brunswick, and I believe the closest rep is in Manitoba. As you'll note if you look at a map, that's really, really far.
> 
> I'd love to try one, but after buying and selling a number of saddles, and losing money every single time, I am not prepared to trial a Ghost saddle without ever having seen one in person. Especially given that the shipping across the country will be expensive. Maybe someday... but right now, it makes no sense.


There's one in Ontario. The Wright Approach

Still not exactly next-door to you though :-(


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

OMG I'm so excited. By a total fluke, a friend of mine who is an endurance rider has a Ghost saddle she is selling for a friend. She is dropping it off right at my house tonight so I can try it over the weekend! It comes with two seats for 1500$ or I can just get one seat for 800$. I would probably just get the one seat. But at the very least I can try a Ghost saddle without even paying shipping!!! And at 800$ it is within my budget for a new saddle. Which it is btw -- hardly ever ridden in. Friend says it's extremely comfortable. 

Here are the two seats. One is more English, the other more like an Aussie. I can't wait to sit in them! Will let you know how it goes...


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

Omg yay!!!
See if you can get both for a little less! It’s worth it I think. I am gonna grab an extra seat when I am able to. Mine is simaler to the one on the left.
I am so happy you can try one!!!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ApolloRider said:


> Omg yay!!!
> See if you can get both for a little less! It’s worth it I think. I am gonna grab an extra seat when I am able to. Mine is simaler to the one on the left.
> I am so happy you can try one!!!


I actually have an Aussie saddle that fits my mare well, so I'm thinking of just buying the English seat. I don't think she's giving it away, but either way, at least I get to try one! And given the total lack of availability of these saddles in my area, I think I might bite the bullet financially and buy it if I really like it.

So out of curiosity, why would you want the extra seat? For trail riding and such?


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## ApolloRider (Feb 14, 2013)

Well... I actually trail ride in the English seat.. I was just thinking if I ever wanted to switch it up. 
I have was riding in the Aussie style until I got mine. I liked both. But if you already have the Aussie that fits your girl not to much of a point to get an extra UNLESS you really love it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

So the Ghost saddle was a no for me and Kodak. 

The seat is extremely comfortable. I can see it being a great trail saddle for a very skilled rider. However, I felt the stirrups had very little stability. Because they attach under the flaps, Kodak didn't like the feeling of having them against her, and was actually quite jumpy. I had to adjust them three times, but still couldn't get into two-point. Posting was really hard, like posting bareback almost, because there's nothing to push up against. 

I just don't think this is the saddle for us, sadly. For now, I think I still need a saddle with a little more stability as I continue to improve as a rider. 

After a few minutes, I switched back to my Thorowgood, and both Kodak and I felt much better. 

Oh well, at least I got to try one!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

If you still have them with you, give them another shot, but with much shorter stirrups - due to the position under the flap, your normal length might be too long with a Ghost!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Saranda said:


> If you still have them with you, give them another shot, but with much shorter stirrups - due to the position under the flap, your normal length might be too long with a Ghost!


I did that. My stirrups were so short my knees were sticking out, lol. So I adjusted them several times. Still didn't work. 

Great saddle for some I'm sure, but it didn't work for me.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Oh well, that's too bad. I really hoped a Ghost would be a good solution for you! Nevertheless, I'm sure you'll find a well fitting saddle in time.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Acadianartist said:


> However, I felt the stirrups had very little stability. Because they attach under the flaps, Kodak didn't like the feeling of having them against her, and was actually quite jumpy. I had to adjust them three times, but still couldn't get into two-point. Posting was really hard, like posting bareback almost, because there's nothing to push up against.
> 
> I just don't think this is the saddle for us, sadly. For now, I think I still need a saddle with a little more stability as I continue to improve as a rider.


That's great you got to try the Ghost! I attach my stirrups over the flaps, so they feel "normal." It's tricky to get them attached through the slots that way, however. You have to go down through the slot, then finagle it through the ring and back up again, then back through the slot. It looks like with the smaller seat that is not an option. Did you try the other seat?

It is somewhere between bareback and riding in a regular treed saddle, in my opinion. I love my Ghost for riding around on a slower ride, but treeless saddles do not give you a stable platform if you are on a strong horse galloping and need to slow the horse using your core, for example. 

The saddles do take several rides to adjust to a bit, so you might consider moving the stirrups to see if it is more comfortable for you, especially with the seat with the flaps and more coverage. I wasn't sure if I liked it on my first ride or two, but once I settled into it I really liked it and it is a lot more secure than you think at first. I've ridden through some really huge bucks and spooks in mine.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

gottatrot said:


> That's great you got to try the Ghost! I attach my stirrups over the flaps, so they feel "normal." It's tricky to get them attached through the slots that way, however. You have to go down through the slot, then finagle it through the ring and back up again, then back through the slot. It looks like with the smaller seat that is not an option. Did you try the other seat?
> 
> It is somewhere between bareback and riding in a regular treed saddle, in my opinion. I love my Ghost for riding around on a slower ride, but treeless saddles do not give you a stable platform if you are on a strong horse galloping and need to slow the horse using your core, for example.
> 
> The saddles do take several rides to adjust to a bit, so you might consider moving the stirrups to see if it is more comfortable for you, especially with the seat with the flaps and more coverage. I wasn't sure if I liked it on my first ride or two, but once I settled into it I really liked it and it is a lot more secure than you think at first. I've ridden through some really huge bucks and spooks in mine.


Interesting! I've already returned it, so I won't have a chance to try a different setup. and no, I didn't try the other seat because I already have an Aussie which I like for trails. I really need a saddle for lessons when I do a lot of posting and two-point work, and it needs to be quite stable. 

I agree that it seems like the sort of saddle that takes some getting used to. Also, it would have been useful to have someone there to help me set it up just right. But I couldn't see myself spending 800$ on it and then ending up having to re-sell it in a couple of weeks if I still don't like it. It would be a hard saddle to sell in this area.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I have a Ghost Dressage saddle and I like it a lot. The only thing I did not care for was the stirrups running under the flaps. However, I know an excellent leathersmith and he was able to cut slits into the flaps (and stitch them) for me to run the stirrups through. MUCH better!


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