# Branding Horses



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I would love to get mine freeze branded. I haven’t been able to work it out with the vet’s schedule the last two springs though...

I know a lot of people think that getting them branded is nice as long as they aren’t already branded. Then there are horses with several brands, so it’s just an opinion.

If I were selling horses I actually wouldn’t brand them. I’ve seen people decide not to buy a horse because of the brand it carried before. They didn’t want to publicize where he came from.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

I had my horse freeze branded....was super neat to watch, and Id do it again in a second! Basically, this horse is never going anywhere, and where I lived at the time, I was afraid he'd get out and besides knowing his exact markings, was paranoid that and a coggins wouldnt be enough proof of ownership LOL

This was a week or two after it was done...the healing process is pretty neat too!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I personally don't know of any private owners that brand. It's more something that breeders do to advertise their horses. I suppose larger ranches would do it too to show ownership. But I don't know any private owners that brand.


Not that it's not a good idea. I actually like the look of freeze brands. It's just not something average owners do around here for whatever reason. If I was a breeder, I probably would.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

csimkunas6 said:


> I had my horse freeze branded....was super neat to watch, and Id do it again in a second! Basically, this horse is never going anywhere, and where I lived at the time, I was afraid he'd get out and besides knowing his exact markings, was paranoid that and a coggins wouldnt be enough proof of ownership LOL
> 
> This was a week or two after it was done...the healing process is pretty neat too!



Great looking brand! 



My friend has horses that she got from a particular breeder with a freeze brand in the same spot and I always thought it looked pretty cool.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

I know for inspection purposes when I do brand inspections on horses I prefer the freeze brands if they are branded. They are much easier to read. I have seen horses and mules with six brands on them. Especially older mules that were owned by the Forest Service tend to have lots of them. 

If I was breeding horses and selling them I would freeze brand them but buying younger prospects, training them and selling them which is what I normally do, I don't brand them. 

From a buying/selling paper work and inspection perspective horses with no brands are easier to than horses with brands here in Montana. It is a small difference though if all the paperwork has been done since the horse was first sold. 

The ones that are a pain in the rear are branded horses that come in from states that don't require brand inspections so the whole chain of custody of the horse has to be established before it can be transported across county and or state lines and or re-sold. In that case I would vastly prefer the horse to be un-branded and have a simple original ink bill of sale that establishes prima facie that the bearer is the owner.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Great looking brand!
> 
> 
> 
> My friend has horses that she got from a particular breeder with a freeze brand in the same spot and I always thought it looked pretty cool.


Thank you! The guy that did it had hundreds of brands to choose from, since I didnt have a brand custom made, this was actually 3 separate brands.

As far as the location, the brander told us that when majority of horses were branded, the brand location depended on the owner and number of owners, the first owner would get it done on the left hindquarter, next would be left shoulder I believe? Dont quote me on the exact location but I thought it was pretty awesome!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm not a fan of branding. It looks so painful once the area begins to swell during the first 48 hours.

I would not brand any of my horses, but that is just me. Would it stop me from buying a horse- no. But if i was comparing two very similar horses, i would probably pick a non branded horse, over a branded one. I view branding as a disfigurement. If it can be hidden by mane, that would be preferable. 

And i detest multiple brands. Why would a horse need more than one brand? That is almost animal cruelty. Ugh. 

I'm not sure branding really deters theft- in Florida there are illegal slaughterhouses. Somehow i doubt a brand would be a deterrence.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

4horses said:


> I'm not a fan of branding. It looks so painful once the area begins to swell during the first 48 hours.
> 
> I would not brand any of my horses, but that is just me. Would it stop me from buying a horse- no. But if i was comparing two very similar horses, i would probably pick a non branded horse, over a branded one. I view branding as a disfigurement. If it can be hidden by mane, that would be preferable.
> 
> ...



I would personally NEVER hot brand a horse. I agree that is cruel. And the scar is ugly. I don't know why a horse would have to have a ton of brands either. But a simple freeze brand doesn't seem to cause much pain (or so I am told) and the hair grows back in white, so it's almost like an acquired white marking. I think they look pretty neat. I never had a horse branded, but I had a BLM Mustang and I thought his brand looked really neat. It was also under his mane, so you really didn't see it unless you were looking for it. 

In more recent years though I have seen some really messy looking brands on BLM horses. Like crooked and in the middle of their neck instead of neatly under their mane. I don't know why they do them sloppy now. Or maybe they always did and I just never seen any sloppy ones until lately.


One time I was over at a neighbor's house and he had a beagle looking dog and I kept staring at it's ear. And finally I asked him, is that a freeze brand on the dog? Yup! Hunting dog apparently. I never knew anyone branded dogs. Looked just like a natural white marking but it was a number or a letter (I don't remember which).


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Should have explained my experience more....my horse flinched on initial contact of the first brand, that was his only reaction. He stood for the remaining 2 brands (as my brand was 3 separate brands). This was done probably 4years ago now, so he was 4yrs old when it was done, as soon as it was over, we loaded him on the trailer and went home. There was minor swelling, basically the brand just disappeared for a few days. Care was super easy, put some vaseline on it about 2wks after. That was it. Was very simple and quick. 

There were a few people that had the man do freeze brands on themselves, they said it was exceptionally cold but virtually pain free, if thats 100% true, not sure as I didnt have it done myself LOL


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

csimkunas6 said:


> Thank you! The guy that did it had hundreds of brands to choose from, since I didnt have a brand custom made, this was actually 3 separate brands.
> 
> As far as the location, the brander told us that when majority of horses were branded, the brand location depended on the owner and number of owners, the first owner would get it done on the left hindquarter, next would be left shoulder I believe? Dont quote me on the exact location but I thought it was pretty awesome!


You must not have had this done in Montana then? In Montana since before it was a state as with many western states brands are a registered thing you buy from the state for X number of years. You buy and register the brand and the state tells you where on cattle or horses your brand can go. If there is already a brand there you can place it far enough away but in the same area so that it is a distinct brand. It has been this way since the 1800s. In Montana branding horses or cattle with a brand you don't own or in a point on the animal your brand is not registered to it is not a good thing and you can face penalties for doing so depending on what the inspecting officer determines your intent was or what the judge says if it goes that far.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

AndyTheCornbread said:


> You must not have had this done in Montana then? In Montana since before it was a state as with many western states brands are a registered thing you buy from the state for X number of years. You buy and register the brand and the state tells you where on cattle or horses your brand can go. If there is already a brand there you can place it far enough away but in the same area so that it is a distinct brand. It has been this way since the 1800s. In Montana branding horses or cattle with a brand you don't own or in a point on the animal your brand is not registered to it is not a good thing and you can face penalties for doing so depending on what the inspecting officer determines your intent was or what the judge says if it goes that far.


Nope, had it done in NC...the guy travels along the east coast stopping at farms, we were able to pick whatever we wanted, and were able to have it branded anywhere on the horse....several horses were done on their shoulders, ect.

Since Ive moved to Montana, Ive learned how much it differs from the eastern states....for instance, brand inspections, no such thing that I knew of in NC to WV...has been quite the adjustment moving here!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

csimkunas6 said:


> There were a few people that had the man do freeze brands on themselves, they said it was exceptionally cold but virtually pain free, if thats 100% true, not sure as I didnt have it done myself LOL


I can help you out here! I've had several things that had no business being there removed from my skin with liquid nitrogen. Exactly the same thing. I personally don't find that painful; just a little stingy-cold. Maybe I have a high pain threshold, because the GP always says it's going to be painful. I think part of it is that I don't anticipate there to be any pain, so am less inclined to feel it. However - I really feel the pain of heat burns! Even accidentally splashing yourself with boiling water is painful, and the pain lasts quite a while afterwards. Or if you accidentally iron yourself instead of your clothes because you're absent-minded or _really_ need glasses. And I well remember how painful electrocautery is from having a plantar wart removed as a teenager. Give me liquid nitrogen any day, personally.

As for horse branding; My Arabian mare had a compulsory ex-breeder hot brand - one of the stud brand on one shoulder, then the year on the other (which they managed to accidentally brand upside down). I wouldn't hot brand a horse myself, because I think it's unpleasant, but the brand does look a lot better than an equivalent freeze brand because it's far less obtrusive.

My current, very dark, riding horse is freeze branded, and it makes me want to get out the shoe polish. Because I grew up on a STB stud / racing stable, I watched a lot of foals get freeze branded and they didn't look particularly uncomfortable - having also watched my Arabian mare's branding as a yearling, she was definitely going "eek!" and had to be on a twitch to hold still.

STB associations are now moving to microchipping - I think that would be what I would do, these days. My dog is microchipped. In Australia, vets occasionally pick up that a dog is stolen when checking the microchip, routine for new animals to a practice - and this has led to reuniting with true owners!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I too have had warts removed with freezing, it doesn't really hurt. 

In the U.K. Many horses were stolen never being seen again. Then freezebranding came about. Horses were branded, usually under the saddle where it wasn't seen when being shown. 

Horses were still stollen but when the thieves found they were branded they were abandoned. I did read somewhere that only two horses were not recovered, both of them greys. One of these was found many years later when he was fully clipped and they found the brand. 

Now all equines have to be microchipped which has stopped thefts as it is easy to check ownership so freeze branding has stopped.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

csimkunas6 said:


> Nope, had it done in NC...the guy travels along the east coast stopping at farms, we were able to pick whatever we wanted, and were able to have it branded anywhere on the horse....several horses were done on their shoulders, ect.
> 
> Since Ive moved to Montana, Ive learned how much it differs from the eastern states....for instance, brand inspections, no such thing that I knew of in NC to WV...has been quite the adjustment moving here!


I figured as much when you said the guy had multiple irons and brands to choose from. Those are called running irons and even possessing one in Montana is illegal. There is no way somebody could have a business like that out here without ending up in the pokey so I figured it must have been a different state. States back east that don't have brand law like the west is where we see most of this stuff originate. 

As brand inspectors and brand investigators it can make a headache for us trying to get chain of custody established for the animal but I suppose that is what they pay us for  My closest neighbors are retired and moved here from Maryland and they have one horse that has been a HUGE pain for us to try and get them established as the owners of it. No brand, no paperwork, no bill of sale etc. a Coggins and health cert were all we had to start with when it showed up in Montana.

If you ever want a good read on what we do and how we ended up as the oldest branch of law enforcement in the state, they ran a good article on our division a few years ago in 2014 that can be found here:
https://flatheadbeacon.com/2014/06/22/montana-brand-inspectors-original-lawmen/

As for pain from freeze brands, I don't think there is much. It's like having a wart frozen off when you are a kid, maybe a slight sting but no more and horses don't usually seem to mind it at all. For that reason and the fact that freeze brands don't blot I really prefer that if people brand their horses they do it that way. Not that my vote counts but it definitely makes my life easier and I think the horses lives easier as well. Blotting is when you have a fairly dense brand symbol wise and the iron gets too hot so as the cow or horse heals back up the middle falls out of the brand and you end up with a big blob on the side of the animal instead of a clean brand. I really dislike showing up for an inspection and seeing cattle with blotted brands, it usually means I am in for a long day.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

AndyTheCornbread said:


> I figured as much when you said the guy had multiple irons and brands to choose from. Those are called running irons and even possessing one in Montana is illegal. There is no way somebody could have a business like that out here without ending up in the pokey so I figured it must have been a different state. States back east that don't have brand law like the west is where we see most of this stuff originate.
> 
> As brand inspectors and brand investigators it can make a headache for us trying to get chain of custody established for the animal but I suppose that is what they pay us for  My closest neighbors are retired and moved here from Maryland and they have one horse that has been a HUGE pain for us to try and get them established as the owners of it. No brand, no paperwork, no bill of sale etc. a Coggins and health cert were all we had to start with when it showed up in Montana.
> 
> ...


Oh wow! Super interesting, thanks for the info! Luckily for me, I have coggins, health certificate, bill of sale from 8years ago, registration papers, and every piece of paperwork I could possibly have for my horse. Definitely helped all parties!

Will be sure to take a look at that article as well! Thank you! Sure appreciate any info I can get being so new to the area!


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## redbadger (Nov 20, 2017)

Quasi-related question, but have people ever microchipped horses (not on a large scale, but personal animals)? I could see the ways in which it's impractical, but just curious. I mean, the readers are handheld anyway.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I think that I would prefer a freeze brand for I.D. rather than a chip. The brand is out there in the open for all to see where chip has to be hunted down or can be missed. Also, I've heard of chips traveling so not so sure how that would turn out. The freeze brands don't seem to cause much discomfort for the animal when being applied. 

I have been contemplating putting some sort of I.D. on my mares and might go with a freeze brand.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I want to get the lifetime brand inspections done on all of our young horses. Or older horses all had them. Yet, I want to get the freeze brands done first, so I have neither accomplished at the moment.

We have a group of five young horses right now. One is supposed to be a sale horse for the little girl, but I think we intend to be his eventual buyers because we are so happy with him. I know it cuts her business short, but we will discuss if she should buy another sale colt after he is finished...


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

Knave said:


> I want to get the lifetime brand inspections done on all of our young horses. Or older horses all had them. Yet, I want to get the freeze brands done first, so I have neither accomplished at the moment.


Are you in Montana? If you are do you know what brand district you are in? Once a year I try to hold a brand inspection day somewhere between Plains and Trout Creek so people can bring their horses in to get lifetimes or yearly inspections done on them without having to drag their horses all the way to Missoula. If you are in brand districts 10 or some parts of 15 (_the south part in Sanders county_) you can PM me your contact info and I will contact you when we have the brand inspection day this year. I usually try and do it before the 4H show season gets started up for the year really good, that way the kids don't have to worry about last minute brand inspections when they want to show out of the county. Plus it is easier to get them done all in one whack for my boss and saves the state money on his gas to drive up here and back to the Missoula office.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@AndyTheCornbread that was such a nice offer! Actually though I am in Nevada, or I would definitely be there! 

My brand inspector is right down the road from me. I like her, she does all the cows unless she is gone, anyways she has been asking to see the little girl’s colt and she always makes an effort to take nice pictures for the lifetimes.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

redbadger said:


> Quasi-related question, but have people ever microchipped horses (not on a large scale, but personal animals)? I could see the ways in which it's impractical, but just curious. I mean, the readers are handheld anyway.


As I said, STB (and TB, and various other) associations here in Australia are moving towards microchipping instead of branding now. In the US, microchipping STBs instead of freeze branding starts with this year's foal drop:

https://indianaharness.com/microchipping-coming-to-standardbred-racing/

Advantages include automatic link to an online database that can be accessed anywhere, no markings on the animal skin (preferred here for horses going into a post-racing show career etc - plus breed is "blind" on open competition that way, and judges can't exercise prejudices pro and anti certain breeds), no tampering, easy re-uniting of stock and owners after bushfires etc.

Some more information:

https://www.ava.com.au/policy/51-electronic-identification-animals

https://thehorse.com/18881/the-new-reality-microchipping-horses/

https://thehorse.com/136783/benefits-of-microchipping-horses/

Microchipping information for horse owners | Microchipping of dogs, cats and horses | Registration, legislation and permits | Pets | Agriculture Victoria


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

It is required to brand cattle here in the Philippines. The mark of the municipality on the left, owners mark on the right. Hot branding is the only option, unless you're near the playgrounds of the rich and famous. 


Horses are thinner skinned than cattle, so the person doing the job has to be a bit more careful. I wanted to brand my horse to help prevent theft. But the vet advised against it, mainly due to lack of equine experience. 


The fresh brands on my cattle did not swell, or anything. I sprayed Combinex antiseptic (purple medicine, we called it when I was a kid.) on the area as soon as it was done.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

The jockey club now requires thoroughbreds to be microchipped. Looks like that is the direction the future is moving in. The United States Equestrian Federation (USEF) jointly with the United States Hunter Jumper Association (USHJA) is requiring microchip identification of all its member horses.

Most of our dogs and cats are microchipped, why not our horses? 

One of my horses is chipped. I've been considering getting the rest done as well.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Here in Georgia, I don't know of any veterinarian that would consider hot branding a horse without general anesthesia. This video helps explain one of the reasons.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

My 2 STB have the freeze brand on the neck. I don't mind them - if you have no history on your horse, the first letter dictates what year your horse was born - and more often than not you can look up the freeze brand on USTA to see the horse's racing history. 

When I bought my Canadian filly, the breeder implanted her microchip in her neck when I arrived to pick her up. Pretty neat - not sure if the micro-chip would 'float' around in there, but definitely makes me feel a bit better knowing she's chipped.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

It's common here for breeders to brand their 2 year olds. I think this is as much marketing as anything, you get to know certain brands within the industry and know exactly who bred the horse.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Celeste said:


> Here in Georgia, I don't know of any veterinarian that would consider hot branding a horse without general anesthesia. This video helps explain one of the reasons.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXOueyRsS8



Can't blame the horse, I'd kick too!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

My horse was freeze branded and microchipped long before I bought her. I much prefer freeze branding over hot branding.

I believe visual ID is important. I know that in the US, the Jockey Club is moving away from lip tattoos and only requiring microchipping, but honestly, I like how it's done in Australia. Freeze brands are a form of visual ID that can be seen from a distance even on greys (if held on long enough). You don't have to get all up in the horse's business to make sure it is who its owners say, and I have COUNTLESS photographs proving that the horse branded nearside Y through S and offside 72 over 1 is mine.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Visual id is important, especially in areas where a horse could be taken from a pasture and it not noticed right away. It's nearly impossible to find a 15 hh plain bay or sorrel Quarter Horse if one goes missing because they are a dime a dozen. There have been several horse thefts in our area in the last year or two-- horses taken right out of corrals, pastures and stalls. The big ol' freeze brand that his seller put on my gelding's left shoulder makes it a lot less likely that he will be taken. I need to get the other two branded, too. We have a freeze brand that's been registered in my husband's family for decades and will use that. I usually do it when the horse is sedated for teeth, etc. but you can do it on a standing horse without sedation if the horse isn't the type that will jump when he feels the cold. It swells up and flakes a bit, but isn't noticeably uncomfortable for them and heals up fast. 

I can't imagine auctions and slaughterhouses using a microchip reader on all of the horses going through. That makes me laugh. I have my dogs microchipped when I do their radiographs for hips/elbows for CERF and 2 of the 6 I've done, the chip was either unreadable or had migrated after a few years. I don't trust that as a permanent identification. A brand on a horse is easy to see, and serves its purpose well.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Bandit doing the Looky-Loo at a neighbor moving a garbage can. He was heat branded. On the Navajo reservation, horses often roam loose. They needed a brand to prevent theft.








When I swapped Mia for him, she did NOT get branded. They sometimes let her roam with the others for a few days at a time, but only when they know where the herd is likely to stay.

Meanwhile, Bandit's brand is often pretty hard to see. I have no idea what his brand actually looks like now, although it is drawn on the bill of sale:








Cowboy's BLM freeze brand is utterly unreadable. Many have tried. None have succeeded.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Yes, good point-- on many lands such as reservations, unbranded horses are considered feral and are subject to being caught and sold for a variety of reasons. A friend on the reservation brands anything she wants to keep. Due to horse overpopulation and drought, there are 'horse buying' programs periodically where residents can bring in unbranded horses for a small payment to reduce pressure on the range, prevent animals starving to death, and to provide much-needed funds for residents. Most of those horses are humanely euthanized. If you live in an area considered 'open range', the only real way to prove ownership is with bill of sale and brand inspection records, and a brand on the horse REALLY helps, especially if your animal is rather nondescript.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

@bsms that is because those freeze marks are alpha angle marks you need to use a key to read them. Let me see if I can upload a key image so you can read it.


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

Never mind an image, these folks have a whole page of instructions on how to read them: https://wildhorseeducation.org/blm-freezemark/


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

This is another alpha angle freeze brand. STBs are (currently) all marked with them here. (It is being phased out for microchipping.)


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