# Conformation on Friesian Mare?



## Tihannah

I'm thinking about going out to take a look at this one. These pics were sent by the owner, so may not be ideal for judging conformation, but hoping some more knowledgeable people can tell me what they see. She's 18, been shown up to Training level 3 and extensively trail ridden. Was also ridden by a 7 yr old so advertised as super safe and completely sound. The asking price is fantastic and she's not too far that I can't drive to see her. I'm looking for something for lower level dressage and pleasure. Thoughts?


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## Wallaby

She's gorgeous!! I have a soft spot for "older" mares, so I love her!

I don't have any personal experience with Friesians, but, from being on this forum for a long time, I've always heard that they do not make ideal dressage mounts. I've always heard that they are popular for dressage due to their flashy movement, but that it's not easy to get them to do _correct_ dressage.
They were originally bred to be light draft carriage horses, and that doesn't always translate well undersaddle.

My main concern is that you will end up running into many of the same problems you're having with Sydney. 
With this mare's age, it's only going to get harder for her to move "correctly." Also, at her age, selling her on -if she ended up not working out- is going to get harder and harder every year.

My first horse that I owned was sold to me as being 21 - turned out she was 24. I owned her for 5 years before she passed away at the age of 29. She was the best thing. I had lots of extravagant plans of things the two of us were going to do...but she ended up not being up for most of them. It was ok though - she taught me a lot more about who I am, who I should be, how to enjoy life, etc, than I probably ever would have learned if all my competitive goals had worked out.
I'm definitely pro-older horses, but they have a shorter "let's do all these activities and then let's go to ten shows!" tolerance than a young horse might. You kind of have to go at their pace and understand that competition may or may not be in the cards. 
Are you ok with having a big pet/trail ride horse in a couple years, for longer than you had a dressage horse?


I'm all for older/senior horses and I feel like everyone should own at least one of them. When you're new to the ownership gambit, it's sure nice to have an experienced horse that doesn't get overly worried about details!


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## Tihannah

Wallaby said:


> She's gorgeous!! I have a soft spot for "older" mares, so I love her!
> 
> I don't have any personal experience with Friesians, but, from being on this forum for a long time, I've always heard that they do not make ideal dressage mounts. I've always heard that they are popular for dressage due to their flashy movement, but that it's not easy to get them to do _correct_ dressage.
> They were originally bred to be light draft carriage horses, and that doesn't always translate well undersaddle.
> 
> My main concern is that you will end up running into many of the same problems you're having with Sydney.
> With this mare's age, it's only going to get harder for her to move "correctly." Also, at her age, selling her on -if she ended up not working out- is going to get harder and harder every year.
> 
> My first horse that I owned was sold to me as being 21 - turned out she was 24. I owned her for 5 years before she passed away at the age of 29. She was the best thing. I had lots of extravagant plans of things the two of us were going to do...but she ended up not being up for most of them. It was ok though - she taught me a lot more about who I am, who I should be, how to enjoy life, etc, than I probably ever would have learned if all my competitive goals had worked out.
> I'm definitely pro-older horses, but they have a shorter "let's do all these activities and then let's go to ten shows!" tolerance than a young horse might. You kind of have to go at their pace and understand that competition may or may not be in the cards.
> Are you ok with having a big pet/trail ride horse in a couple years, for longer than you had a dressage horse?
> 
> 
> I'm all for older/senior horses and I feel like everyone should own at least one of them. When you're new to the ownership gambit, it's sure nice to have an experienced horse that doesn't get overly worried about details!


Lol, I feel like you read my mind! All the same thoughts I've had. At the same time, I think about several horses at my barn who are in their mid to upper 20s, still riding several days a week with minimal maintenance. I would, of course, have a PPE done with my vet. I haven't even done my first show yet, and at my age and being brand spanking new to dressage, I can't see myself every being a serious competitor. I think if I could get a safe horse to take me up to 1st level, I would be happy.

I've heard the same thing about friesians as far as being competitive in dressage as well. I can't help it, I love the breed! Lol. If I was intending to go upper levels, then this would likely not be an option for me. I think my trainer would be better than me at assessing her ability so I forwarded the short video clip I got.


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## Chevaux

Good thoughts by Wallaby. I think she's worth taking a look at. Honestly, though (and recognizing that the pics tell little), I would not consider her as a serious contender for competitive dressage but if you are indeed serious about pleasure riding and the occasional low level dressage show she could well be perfect for you. Let us know how it works out.


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## Tihannah

Really short vid. I emailed asking for additional but haven't heard back yet, but this is her daughter riding her. I liked how responsive she is to such tiny legs.


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## Tihannah

Just heard back from my trainer. She thinks the mare is lovely, but is worried about her age and if I would be able to continue going up in the levels with her. She sees me competing at 2nd level in a couple years and the mare would be 20 by then. Her owner swears she's NEVER had a health issue in the 5 years she's had her and is in great health. Personally, I don't think I'll ever be a serious competitor and would be happy just continuing to learn and enjoy riding. I'm only learning Intro right now and still trying to maneuver a decent 20m circle, lol. Thoughts on competing on a horse this age?


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## Tracer

Another thing to keep in mind is that Friesians are a whole new ball game movement-wise. Whilst a good rider should be able to ride anything, Friesians really are in a world of their own, or so I've found. Of all the different horses I've ridden, Friesians are without a doubt the strangest and, dare I say, most uncomfortable. Their movement is so exaggerated (or is in the case of the one I rode) that it's very difficult to get used to.

She's a very pretty mare, though. I would consider her as a pleasure mount, but not sure about as a dressage mount :/


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## Tihannah

Tracer said:


> Another thing to keep in mind is that Friesians are a whole new ball game movement-wise. Whilst a good rider should be able to ride anything, Friesians really are in a world of their own, or so I've found. Of all the different horses I've ridden, Friesians are without a doubt the strangest and, dare I say, most uncomfortable. Their movement is so exaggerated (or is in the case of the one I rode) that it's very difficult to get used to.
> 
> She's a very pretty mare, though. I would consider her as a pleasure mount, but not sure about as a dressage mount :/


I've heard this as well, both arguments. People seem to either love em or hate em. Natasha Althoff is a Grand Prix rider I follow on Youtube and her main GP horse is a friesian, but doesn't seem to have the exaggerated movement either. I've never ridden one, but I can't wait to try it out! Because of scheduling conflicts, we are shooting for the weekend following Thanksgiving. She's a few hours from me and we both have the next couple weekends tied up. I am going to do my best and go into this with my head and not my heart. If she is not a fit, then I will move on.


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## Rainaisabelle

Tihannah said:


> Tracer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another thing to keep in mind is that Friesians are a whole new ball game movement-wise. Whilst a good rider should be able to ride anything, Friesians really are in a world of their own, or so I've found. Of all the different horses I've ridden, Friesians are without a doubt the strangest and, dare I say, most uncomfortable. Their movement is so exaggerated (or is in the case of the one I rode) that it's very difficult to get used to.
> 
> She's a very pretty mare, though. I would consider her as a pleasure mount, but not sure about as a dressage mount :/
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard this as well, both arguments. People seem to either love em or hate em. Natasha Althoff is a Grand Prix rider I follow on Youtube and her main GP horse is a friesian, but doesn't seem to have the exaggerated movement either. I've never ridden one, but I can't wait to try it out! Because of scheduling conflicts, we are shooting for the weekend following Thanksgiving. She's a few hours from me and we both have the next couple weekends tied up. I am going to do my best and go into this with my head and not my heart. If she is not a fit, then I will move on.
Click to expand...

Unrelated but I love Natasha Altoff <3


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## rookie

I will say I had an arabian mare that I got as a teenager. The mare was 19 when I got her and I rode her through high school. I free leased her to a family friend after I graduated, the family friend was looking for a kind old school master to teach young students on. She loved to jump, had a bit of arthritis but we managed with an oral cosequin. She slowed down at around 29 and passed away at 30. The day she died, she had been groomed by a young girl, ridden walk and trot, went over a few (small) cross rails, had been bathed and cooled out and brushed again. Than that evening she collapsed during feeding and died in the barn owners arms. Don't discount her for age. In addition, one of the feistiest horses I ever rode as a 27 year old wrangle horse who lived ( I mean LIVED) to chase other horses on the morning wrangle.


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## Tihannah

rookie said:


> I will say I had an arabian mare that I got as a teenager. The mare was 19 when I got her and I rode her through high school. I free leased her to a family friend after I graduated, the family friend was looking for a kind old school master to teach young students on. She loved to jump, had a bit of arthritis but we managed with an oral cosequin. She slowed down at around 29 and passed away at 30. The day she died, she had been groomed by a young girl, ridden walk and trot, went over a few (small) cross rails, had been bathed and cooled out and brushed again. Than that evening she collapsed during feeding and died in the barn owners arms. Don't discount her for age. In addition, one of the feistiest horses I ever rode as a 27 year old wrangle horse who lived ( I mean LIVED) to chase other horses on the morning wrangle.


Thank you. This made me smile. I've been weighing this and have had a lot of back of forth with the owner and here is what I've come to. I'm 39 and just began dressage in May. Most importantly, I need a horse that is both safe and sound. Ideally, I would LOVE to have a younger dressage schoolmaster trained to 2nd or 3rd level, but unfortunately, my budget says it ain't gonna happen. Not unless they have some health maintenance issues. I have A LOT to learn still, and if I can do that on a horse that I love and enjoy, then I will be a happy camper. I figure that if I am ever ready to move up in the levels, then she will have been a great teacher to help me build the confidence, skill, and experience needed to take on a younger horse that may need some work and not cost me an arm and a leg. If I get 10 good years on this mare, then the investment of $6k asking price would definitely be worth it for me.

Oh, and this may sound silly, but I almost feel like she is meant for me.. She will be turning 18 in February. My birthday is February 18th!


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## Fantelle

Since you've never ridden a friesian before, I'd recommend you do that first and see how you like it. I think she looks great, my only worry would be her age like you said. Be prepared for emergency vet funds!


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## jaydee

If she's close then go and see her
As a breed they aren't everyone's 'cup of tea' to ride but you might like her
I've had horses and ponies stay fit and healthy well beyond 20 but I've had as many others that haven't so I wouldn't pay a high price for her, insurance cover gets difficult once they get beyond 15/16 years


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## sarahfromsc

What are her test scores? For 6k those scores better be golden. And only training level? 6k for training level?

Seems to me they are selling the breed of the horse vs selling the horse's ability.

You seem to have caught the dressage bug! You will want to train and compete higher, believe me. Even if just local shows. Been there and wore out that shirt! Buy a horse that can climb with you. If you think this mare is that horse, great. But think long and hard about it.

I bought a crazy $600 Arab, and we are training third, testing lower second an doing pretty dang good.

He also does LD (want to do a 50 or two next year) and just started working cows. He loves to track a cow. Not pretty doing it, but he is game!

My point is, you can get a lot of horse, and do many things without the price tag.


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## LoriF

I think that you really need to think about what you want. I personally think that this is a nice mare. 18 is not that bad and yes she can compete at 20. If you are looking to move up quite a bit than this mare probably isn't for you. Not saying that she can't learn new stuff but if you surpass her, you will probably be giving her away in a couple of years. If you are happy to learn how to ride and just enjoy your horse then maybe she's the one. I personally think that there is a little bit of prejudice that goes on over this breed and I also think people will say things about this breed just because that is what they heard. I have a half friesian and she just floats and I love riding this horse. Friesians were originally bred for riding horses and then went on to be bred for carriage horses and are now being bred to be riding horses again. If I were you and I thought that I would like this horse I would go try her out and see for myself. The only thing I would hesitate with would be 6 grand for an 18 yr. old horse. I was given an 18 yr.old retired show horse. Not that it mattered because I don't ride saddle seat but she is still highly trained. If were me I would probably go into it knowing that I am going to keep her for as long as she lives.


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## Tihannah

sarahfromsc said:


> What are her test scores? For 6k those scores better be golden. And only training level? 6k for training level?
> 
> Seems to me they are selling the breed of the horse vs selling the horse's ability.
> 
> You seem to have caught the dressage bug! You will want to train and compete higher, believe me. Even if just local shows. Been there and wore out that shirt! Buy a horse that can climb with you. If you think this mare is that horse, great. But think long and hard about it.
> 
> I bought a crazy $600 Arab, and we are training third, testing lower second an doing pretty dang good.
> 
> He also does LD (want to do a 50 or two next year) and just started working cows. He loves to track a cow. Not pretty doing it, but he is game!
> 
> My point is, you can get a lot of horse, and do many things without the price tag.


There's a woman 15 min from me selling another friesian mare for $12K and she's 14 and still green as can be. Her friend and I got into an argument about the asking price and I said what you are saying, that she's selling on breed alone. It's been listed for almost a year with no takers. But yes, Friesians are a higher priced breed. 

You bought a "crazy" Arab for $600. That's a good price. I don't want a crazy horse, and am not a fan of arabs, though I've seen some nice crosses. As a green rider, I don't have the skill to take a young, crazy horse and make it great. Yes, I love dressage, but not for the ribbons or showing. I love the technique and communication between horse and rider. It fascinates me, but the show scene is not a big deal for me. I also prefer a larger bodied horse - Friesian, Warmblood, Andalusian. I'm 5'8 and don't like feeling like an amazon woman on my horse.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> I think that you really need to think about what you want. I personally think that this is a nice mare. 18 is not that bad and yes she can compete at 20. If you are looking to move up quite a bit than this mare probably isn't for you. Not saying that she can't learn new stuff but if you surpass her, you will probably be giving her away in a couple of years. If you are happy to learn how to ride and just enjoy your horse then maybe she's the one. I personally think that there is a little bit of prejudice that goes on over this breed and I also think people will say things about this breed just because that is what they heard. I have a half friesian and she just floats and I love riding this horse. Friesians were originally bred for riding horses and then went on to be bred for carriage horses and are now being bred to be riding horses again. If I were you and I thought that I would like this horse I would go try her out and see for myself. The only thing I would hesitate with would be 6 grand for an 18 yr. old horse. I was given an 18 yr.old retired show horse. Not that it mattered because I don't ride saddle seat but she is still highly trained. If were me I would probably go into it knowing that I am going to keep her for as long as she lives.


That is my idea. I'm not a competitor and feel like I've gotten started way too late in the game at my age to be one. I just want something I can enjoy and learn on. We haven't really discussed the price yet, because I'd like to see and ride her first, but the vibes I get is that the owner is more concerned about finding her the perfect home. When/if the time comes, I will see how negotiable she is on price.


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## sarahfromsc

I didn't think he was all that crazy. His previous owner did hence his price. He was halter broke and had a lot of forward. 

The point is that there some good horses you can grow with. And I never thought of showing, I started taking dressage lessons after I realized the old body of mine, after being out of horses for 16 years, needed some limbering up while training the Arab. 

Then the bug bit. I'm not a dressage diva, but seeing our scores getting higher, his movements crisper, our communication cleaner, well, the showing was nice. I only competed with my previous scores.

I'm your height and if you look at my avatar I don't think I look like an Amazon.

The point of my earlier post was she is a lot of money. And a different horse may give you the ability to dabble in different disciplines as you grow as a rider.

I also said earlier, if she is exactly what you want then great!


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## sarahfromsc

And you are never to old!


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## DanteDressageNerd

Personally I would pass. I think she is quite green for being 18. Not that you can really tell that much from the video but enough. If it were me I'd save my money and wait for something younger and better to come along. 

To me I'd focus on finding just a good horse. I wouldn't be focused on flashy movement or super fancy but on something with good ridability/training and decent athleticism/capability. If you're a greener rider, you don't want the big-flashy movement. It takes a lot more to organize/ride than a smaller, less dramatic mover. I'm not saying don't find a nice mover but focus on the training/ridability first. Find a horse you can learn on and enjoy riding each and everyday. You can find a well trained, ridable and athletic horse who may not be super fancy but be perfect for you.


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## Wallaby

Tihannah said:


> I also prefer a larger bodied horse - Friesian, Warmblood, Andalusian. I'm 5'8 and don't like feeling like an amazon woman on my horse.


Not to push for Arabians [although they are my breed of choice...haha], but I think you would truly be surprised at how some of them take up your leg.
Sure, there are those spindly-legged halter horses that are narrower than a fence rail, BUT that's only one variety.
I prefer Polish-bred Arabians. As a group, they are known for being some of the bigger bodied Arabians.

My last mare was 14.1 on a tall day and I'm 5'7", yet I never looked [or felt] overly big on her. Looking back, I think I *looked* a little big just because my upper half seems to be looming over her...but no one ever commented and neither of us was ever uncomfortable:
[this was taken during a costume day at a summer camp we worked at...we were twins for the day. haha]



My current gelding is narrower than my mare was, but he's 15.2ish and Polish/Crabbet bred. 
Again, he takes up my leg quite nicely: 




My mare DID move like a little horse. She had shorter strides, quicker turns, she was definitely little. You asked her to do something and practically before you got all the words out, she was doing what you asked.

My gelding, on the other hand, moves like a horse much bigger than he is. Perhaps it's because he has unnaturally large feet [I have never seen such big hooves on a "normal" sized horse!], perhaps it's because he has unnaturally long legs, but he moves like a big horse. 
I've measured him out and, if it weren't for those legs of his, he'd be basically the same size as my 14.1 mare. He weighs the same as she always did, same blanket size..but he's over a hand taller.
At the same time, I have no idea how he is as athletic as he is. He changes leads out in the pasture, and there's this terrifying, but daily, event:






How does he avoid running smack into that fence? Magic?? I honestly don't know. 




I get that you aren't into Arabians and I totally understand that - they aren't everyone's cup of tea! 
All I'm trying to say is that you don't have to have a warmblood to get that solid build, or that nice movement, or that "big horse feel."
It's ok if you absolutely prefer warmbloods, totally ok, but don't limit yourself unnecessarily. 

For all that, a friend of mine [tall friend, she's taller than me, at least 5'8"] participated heavily in OHSET [Oregon High School Equestrian Team] as a teenager and got some of the best fourth level scores OHSET had seen. What was she riding?
A Paint gelding with unremarkable bloodlines.


Anyway, I'll stop beating a dead horse now... haha *slinks off*


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## Tihannah

I'm not in a hurry to buy, and Dante, you know I still have my trainer's lease option. I have just always been a fan of friesians and came across this one while browsing sale ads and she's not too far that I can't drive to see her. I may change my mind after I ride and see what everyone's talking about. Lol. My trainer thinks she's lovely, but worried about the age. The owner said they were working on flying lead changes before they got her new horse, so they stopped working with her. The daughter now has a gypsy vanner.


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## SummerShy

Friesians are my favorite breed. She looks amazing in general, and even for her age! I haven't read all three pages of this thread but what have you decided to do?


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## Tihannah

SummerShy said:


> Friesians are my favorite breed. She looks amazing in general, and even for her age! I haven't read all three pages of this thread but what have you decided to do?


I haven't gone to see her yet. Was just getting some opinions on her as far as age and conformation. I'm supposed to go out the weekend after Thanksgiving.

@Wallaby - I definitely don't limit myself as far as breed goes. DanteDressageNerd can tell you, I've sent her a TON of prospects - all different breeds, and one of our top contenders was actually an arabian cross. I can't help it though, despite the breed, there is definitely a "look" that I'm drawn to. I like the bigger bodies and thicker necks, but Dante has a better eye than me for spotting features on a horse that would make it a better candidate for dressage (strong hind ends, movement, etc.).


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## Tihannah

This is one of the first horses I went to look at back in May. He was droolworthy. Dutch Harness - they said 18hh, but I'm not sure he was THAT big, but he was big. Competing 1st level, training 2nd level. I could have had him for $4k, but he didn't like other horses or dogs, so my barn wouldn't take him. But THIS is the look I want in something that is safe and sound. I can't help it. I still think about this guy and wish he was mine.





He felt AMAZING to sit on! Look at that shoulder! Lol.


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## Tihannah

She sent a ton more pics. Her daughter has shown her A LOT. I like her. QUICK, someone jab a stake in my heart, it's taking over! Lol. :-( 



She said whenever her daughter would salute the judges, the horse would too! <3


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## rookie

I think we all get to a point where we have to decide what our goal is in horse ownership/riding. It seems that you get to choose either to "become a great/competitive rider" or "become a horse owner". You either get the horse that will challenge you and when/if you out grow them you sell them or you get a horse that you like and may outgrow but will keep. I ride standardbreds and my current gelding challenged me immensely he is forward and need courage. Its taken about three years of riding (one year of really consistent riding) to get to the point where it is hand in glove. I hate ground work and I am not the type to go and just brush my horse at the barn, Harry my horse is also not a fan of these things. When Harry is too old to be ridden heavily or arthritic to go on a ride as often as I want than we will learn together to like ground work and the joys of a solid grooming session. I have realized that with Harry I am in this for the journey and our destination is not the winners circle and their are no blue ribbons. That is okay, just like the blue rosette is also okay. 

I think the OP has to go and ride this horse and than decide what they want to do. If you want to have a really good time on a horse you like (breed, personality, comfort to ride, able to meet your current challenges and help you achieve goals etc) and you are content with maybe out skilling this horse in 5 years and not being able to resell due to age than buy her. If you want to be competitive in the show scene than this may not be the right horse. Would I spend 6 grand on a horse maybe may be not. Is 6 grand a bargain for a Friesian, yes in many circles it is. I would make sure she had a good PPE done because that is a really good price for a breed where unproven yearlings go for 10 grand. 

Price is highly relative. My horse was "free" in that I did not pay for him. He was expensive in that my family paid the stud fee, the training fees for the racing career that ultimately Harry decided he did not want to have. The point is that every horse is worth a lot until they are not worth much. Its not my place to judge what you spend on purchase price. There are great bargains to be found for 125 dollars and terrible dangers to be found for 200,000. Its all about what you want with your horse.


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## Tihannah

rookie said:


> I think we all get to a point where we have to decide what our goal is in horse ownership/riding. It seems that you get to choose either to "become a great/competitive rider" or "become a horse owner". You either get the horse that will challenge you and when/if you out grow them you sell them or you get a horse that you like and may outgrow but will keep. I ride standardbreds and my current gelding challenged me immensely he is forward and need courage. Its taken about three years of riding (one year of really consistent riding) to get to the point where it is hand in glove. I hate ground work and I am not the type to go and just brush my horse at the barn, Harry my horse is also not a fan of these things. When Harry is too old to be ridden heavily or arthritic to go on a ride as often as I want than we will learn together to like ground work and the joys of a solid grooming session. I have realized that with Harry I am in this for the journey and our destination is not the winners circle and their are no blue ribbons. That is okay, just like the blue rosette is also okay.
> 
> I think the OP has to go and ride this horse and than decide what they want to do. If you want to have a really good time on a horse you like (breed, personality, comfort to ride, able to meet your current challenges and help you achieve goals etc) and you are content with maybe out skilling this horse in 5 years and not being able to resell due to age than buy her. If you want to be competitive in the show scene than this may not be the right horse. Would I spend 6 grand on a horse maybe may be not. Is 6 grand a bargain for a Friesian, yes in many circles it is. I would make sure she had a good PPE done because that is a really good price for a breed where unproven yearlings go for 10 grand.
> 
> Price is highly relative. My horse was "free" in that I did not pay for him. He was expensive in that my family paid the stud fee, the training fees for the racing career that ultimately Harry decided he did not want to have. The point is that every horse is worth a lot until they are not worth much. Its not my place to judge what you spend on purchase price. There are great bargains to be found for 125 dollars and terrible dangers to be found for 200,000. Its all about what you want with your horse.


^^This is perfect and really sums up my thoughts. It's hard for me to explain to people that actively compete (like my trainer), that this is not my end goal. I will go to the barn, spend 30-45 min riding, and 2 hours grooming and bathing my lease horse. I enjoy this time - breathing that horse smell and getting dirty making them look good. I enjoy hand grazing and just sitting in their presence. I enjoy the bond on the ground just as much as the one in the saddle. 

I will go and see her. If she is what the owner is saying and I feel comfortable in the saddle, then I will have my vet do a PPE. If she passes all, then maybe I will bring her home. If not, no big deal. I will keep looking or just go forward with leasing my trainer's mare.


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## Zexious

Subbing :>


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## DanteDressageNerd

Be mindful too that you're not changing your goals or aspirations to fit a horse because you want that horse to fit the bill. It never hurts to look but if you do fall in love sleep on it before making a decision and make sure it's from a rational place. It's like when you're starting a new relationship, gotta pin yourself down before you build up so many hopes and dreams based on potential, rather than reality that you don't end up where you want to be. Don't make adjustments just because you saw something you liked and wanted to make it work. Older horses are great but even sound ones will need maintenance, especially as they get older and work more. You're going to have many more years of riding and you may be better off saving this money for down the road after the next lease runs out, so you have more money for a potential dream horse and have a better idea of exactly what you want but it's entirely up to you and your goals and what you want out of the experience. 

She looks really sweet and very kind. My heart melts when I see gentle horses with kids.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> Be mindful too that you're not changing your goals or aspirations to fit a horse because you want that horse to fit the bill. It never hurts to look but if you do fall in love sleep on it before making a decision and make sure it's from a rational place. It's like when you're starting a new relationship, gotta pin yourself down before you build up so many hopes and dreams based on potential, rather than reality that you don't end up where you want to be. Don't make adjustments just because you saw something you liked and wanted to make it work. Older horses are great but even sound ones will need maintenance, especially as they get older and work more. You're going to have many more years of riding and you may be better off saving this money for down the road after the next lease runs out, so you have more money for a potential dream horse but it's entirely up to you and your goals and what you want out of the experience.
> 
> She looks really sweet and very kind. My heart melts when I see gentle horses with kids.


You're right, and I will definitely keep this in mind when I go to visit her. My trainer says I am one of her favorite students because I am like a sponge and just soak everything up and catch on really quick. She thinks I have the potential to be doing 2nd level in 2 years. I tell her its only because I love it so much. But for that reason, she too, thinks I should pass on this horse due to age. THIS is why I'm scared to buy!! Lol. Does any greenie REALLY know what they want??


----------



## DanteDressageNerd

I agree with your trainer, especially if you want to ride 2nd level or above. Even if you don't show there is still more and more training you're going to want to do.

My theory is no one ever really knows what they want but you can get pretty dang close. A year ago I didn't think I'd end up buying an arabian cross, I didn't dislike arabians but they weren't my thing and then I went to an arab barn with a friend and she told the trainer I was horse shopping and asked if she had anything in my price range. So she showed me a horse I had no intention of buying but I felt rude saying no. I saw him go and thought he has potential, though pretty downhill and on the forehand in canter but good regularity and I thought that can be fixed. He was basically broke, so he didn't steer well and it was an exhausting ride but he felt like he had a lot of potential and he does. He was what I didn't know I wanted. Sometimes the exact thing you need is the thing you don't want lol.


----------



## Tracer

That Dutch Harness horse is STUNNING.

I'm interested to hear how this mare is when you see her, and what you think of her movement. Like I said before, she'd probably make a great pleasure horse especially with how she is with that little girl, and it's up to you whether you think she'll make it as a dressage horse.


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## DuffyDuck

For me, it seems like a hell of a lot of money for the age and training. I had a school master who I sold in to semi retirement at age 21, and he passed of a brain issue at 24. No one knew he had it, it was just one of those darn unlucky things.

I have ridden the big WBs with the huge, scopey movement. I've ridden crosses, and even a tinker. But I cannot sit or stand friesian horses under saddle. They are built and bred to pull a carriage and they're good at it. 

So you get this horse, you ride till she's 20 and then want something more because she can't take you further (as with your current horse). Will she become a leased out horse whilst you find something else?

Young doesn't equal bad. Something between 7-16 would, IMO, suit you better. I am all for buying older horses, but you're already itching to move up with your training and I think you'd hit end game too soon with a horse at this age and level of training.


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## Tihannah

DuffyDuck said:


> So you get this horse, you ride till she's 20 and then want something more because she can't take you further (as with your current horse). Will she become a leased out horse whilst you find something else?
> 
> Young doesn't equal bad. Something between 7-16 would, IMO, suit you better. I am all for buying older horses, but you're already itching to move up with your training and I think you'd hit end game too soon with a horse at this age and level of training.


It's not necessarily the moving up that has caused me to start looking for another horse. It's her ability. My current horse cannot even canter on a left lead. At 15, she's never been asked to get on the bit or round and has no clue what you're asking of her. She's heavy on the forehand and unbalanced. So essentially, I can't even improve on basic riding with her.

I never said I didn't want a younger horse. Ideally, I would like a horse between 8-12. My issue with this has been price and location. I've been able to find them in my budget, but I would have to fly to California, or New York, or Canada to see them. There's a ton of em in my budget in Canada! I live in Mississippi and this is western country, so horses here and the surrounding states trained well in Dressage or Eventing or H/J come with a hefty price tag. There's currently a TB for sale at my barn who can't go past Novice Eventing and his sale price is $10K. I've ridden him and he's NOT an easy ride and takes a lot of work to get collected. I think she's crazy, lol, but someone will buy him.

Like I said, I've never ridden a friesian, soI don't know if this horse is the one. The age is definitely a worry, but I still think she's worth going to take a look at.


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## SummerShy

Goodness if you don't want her just send her to me!  She's lovely.


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## jaydee

If the mare was younger and you liked her I wouldn't see the price tag as a problem but once any horse reaches her age the risks start to pile up which is why they more often get loaned or leased out as schoolmasters than they get sold
The Friesians are an impressive looking horse but unless they do something to earn a value they're just an expensive ornament.
I'd be wondering why this horse hadn't gone any higher through the levels at her age
As for the Gypsy Cobs - well before some Americans got hold of them they sold for peanuts in the UK, mostly to riding schools and trekking centres or for meat. The same stamp of horse that people were paying $1000's for plus the cost of shipping them here are now being abandoned in the UK and Eire because no one wants them.


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## Tihannah

She didn't go higher because she was purchased for a 7yr old. The girl is now 10 and has gotten more serious about dressage, but now only rides the vanner. Owner says they have too many horses and this one needs a job.


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## Tihannah

Believe it or not, I just stumbled across another friesian also in Alabama. Gelding, same age, same price (negotiable), but shown to 3rd and 4th level. I sent a message. No pics or video on the ad. Not sure how close they are to each other, but it would be nice to have 2 to look at.


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## jaydee

Tihannah said:


> She didn't go higher because she was purchased for a 7yr old. The girl is now 10 and has gotten more serious about dressage, but now only rides the vanner. Owner says they have too many horses and this one needs a job.


I don't know.......................
Dressage is so much about leg cues, I wouldn't buy a horse that size for a 7 year old to do dressage on because she wouldn't have the length of leg on it to be really effective
Tread carefully!!!


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## Tihannah

You're right, and I think its why they bought her the gypsy vanner. Looked maybe 14hh, if that, in picture she sent. But I think the horse was being shown by an adult before her daughter hence the training level 3 showing. Haven't heard anything on the gelding yet, but he apparently is very well schooled and has had a an extensive career in dressage. He would definitely be the better option.


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## egrogan

I'm going to share my personal story of getting my mare, who is also my first horse. It may or may not be useful to you- feel free to just skip over if it's not...

In 2010, I got back into riding consistently (I was in my early 30s then). I began free leasing a little Morgan mare, 18 years old, who was doing basic, training level dressage work with a pro trainer. My mare had been donated to a therapeutic riding program and didn't work out as a lesson horse. But she was bored and spunky and in danger of tearing the barn down without consistent riding. That's how I got connected to her- the trainer had taken a liking to her and was looking for someone who would ride her a few times a week in between training rides. Essentially, I was in the right place at the right time!

At the time I started taking lessons/free leasing her, I decided I was financially and professionally stable enough to buy my first horse. The Morgan mare was nice to take lessons on, but what I thought I wanted was a big paint gelding for trail riding. The Morgan was petite, hated riding outside, and was definitely not a horse I felt safe on riding out of the arena. But at the same time in my lessons, I was building my confidence in training level work (I had never ridden dressage before this-only hunt seat). 

I went to a sale barn and rode a bunch of trail horses- including the big paint gelding I saw in my dreams. They were all ok, but I realized I actually missed the forwardness and spunk of my lease mare- and the confidence I had developed by riding her.

While all this horse shopping was happening, I was offered the chance to buy the lease mare. Her asking price was $2K- way too much for an older mare with no show experience or consistent training in any discipline; she was cute and kind, but no one else but me would have paid that asking price. Long story short, I decided to go for it. For me, it all came down to the feeling of confidence I had when riding her.

When I initially bought her, we kept taking dressage lessons, and I worked on my own riding as much as I could. She was doing ok as well, though wasn't having any additional formal training or conditioning. I never had ambitions of showing, so that wasn't a big deal. Eventually, pro trainer left the barn, and our lessons stopped. Mare became a bit arena sour. I realized I was still itching for hacking out rather than arena drills. So that began a new chapter in our relationship- I had to teach her to like being a dressage-saddle-wearing trail horse  We're a few years on now, and it works pretty well for us.

I knew I was taking a risk buying an older mare. Knock on wood, she's very healthy overall. At age 20ish, I started her on oral Cosequin for some mild arthritis in her hocks, it keeps her comfortable. She gets chiro work every 3-6 months. She's lost a lot of top-line and has a mild swayback, so the saddle fitter comes out a couple of times a year. But otherwise, she's perfectly physically capable of what I do with her. I have continued to progress as a rider to the point I'm probably "above' her level, but that's ok with me. 

So sorry this has turned into a huge novel, but I wanted to share my experience as a 30-something adult re-rider with some wishy-washy riding goals buying an older horse. As I said, if not helpful, feel free to ignore! And good luck with your decision


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## Tihannah

Thank you, it was very useful and something I can relate to. Feeling safe and being able to trust my horse are my #1 priorities. Then health, then ability. On Sidney, I have no worries. I am confident and sure of myself, and that is the reason I have been able to advance quickly. A couple weeks ago, a friend at the barn let me get on her WB mare. She was a very forward, strong horse with lots of attitude. I didn't know her or what to expect, and I completely lost all confidence and everything I knew was out the window. I literally sat there letting her guide me and wanted her owner to stay close. I was afraid that I was going to do something wrong, tick her off, and this horse would bolt with me. I rode her for maybe 5 minutes tops!


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## jaydee

The other horse sounds like it might be a better option
The other one - I'd worry about what bad habits a big horse like that with so much natural elevation might have picked up in the hands of such a young child for a few years
If they want her to do serious dressage why on earth have they bought her a Vanner I wonder - it isn't that some of them can't perform well in dressage but they take a lot more effort on the riders part to be as good as a purpose bred dressage pony, an Arabian or welsh pony would be a better choice


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## Tihannah

Heard back from the owner of the gelding. She said he has had no health issues and super easy keeper. 16.2hh shown to 4th level. Unfortunately, the location in the ad was a mistake. He is located in Oregon! :sad: He sounds like an ideal schoolmaster though. Below are pics she sent me.







And an old show photo.


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## jaydee

Keep looking, something will turn up eventually
As a friends wise mother used to say to us 
'If its meant for you it won't go by you'


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## Werecat

Ah man, what a bummer on that gelding's location. Something similar happened to me on an Arab/Friesian gelding and the state he was bred in was the state I live in, but his owner had moved out to Arizona with him which was entirely across the country.

Keep your chin up, I feel your pain. I've been searching for a horse for a long time as well, similar situation to you, I'd like to do lower level dressage and if by some chance I am good enough to complete, do so... but competition isn't my main goal.


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## DuffyDuck

Tihannah said:


> She didn't go higher because she was purchased for a 7yr old. The girl is now 10 and has gotten more serious about dressage, but now only rides the vanner. Owner says they have too many horses and this one needs a job.


Perhaps I am getting this confused.

Horse was bought for the kid, who wants to do more dressage.
Horse has only done basic/ low level and they want to sell her because the girl wants to be more serious.
You're interested in a horse you can potentially get to 2nd/3rd level with? But this horse is old, and being passed up after reaching a basic level by someone who owns it and wants to do more dressage...

So the horse can't/won't do more dressage? But you want to buy it because...?

I really, really don't mean to sound harsh. I'm just trying to get through the thought process.. I would say that if horses are that expensive, then save and save. There will be something out there.


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## Regula

That gelding looks like he hasn't been ridden in quite a while, he basically has no topline at all. Ifhe is all they say he is training- and health-wise, I think $6K is a fair price for him though.
The mare, meh. Just went back and watched the video of the little girl cantering. It's cute, and it's nice for the horse to be patient enough for a child, but you will hit a limit with this mare very fast when it comes to dressage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tihannah

DuffyDuck said:


> Perhaps I am getting this confused.
> 
> Horse was bought for the kid, who wants to do more dressage.
> Horse has only done basic/ low level and they want to sell her because the girl wants to be more serious.
> You're interested in a horse you can potentially get to 2nd/3rd level with? But this horse is old, and being passed up after reaching a basic level by someone who owns it and wants to do more dressage...
> 
> So the horse can't/won't do more dressage? But you want to buy it because...?
> 
> I really, really don't mean to sound harsh. I'm just trying to get through the thought process.. I would say that if horses are that expensive, then save and save. There will be something out there.


Yes, you have confused things. There is no can't/won't do dressage. The girl was too young and too small to do anything serious with the friesian. The horse was also too big for her. They did a few intro tests and in hand shows with the mare. Previous owner did training level - I have no other info on them. Now that the girl has the smaller horse and is a little older (10), she has gotten more serious about doing dressage. The girl did not have the skill or ability to do anything more with this mare.

I also think you have my interest in this horse confused. She is simply an option on the table. Her appeal is that she is a lot closer than most horses I've found, knows some dressage, and is safe and sound according to the owner. Reaching 2nd or 3rd level is at the bottom of my list for considering a horse. 

I continue to look at horses every day and I also have a lease option that I REALLY like who has shown 1st level, trained by my trainer, and I'm currently taking lessons on. I'm in no hurry to buy and I won't know if a horse is for me until I actually go see and ride it. Because she was close, I figured it didn't hurt to go out and take a look. I have sent inquiry on about 12 horses in the past few days. Since I can't find any close to me, the plan is to find several in a general area and do a weekend trip to go see and ride them. My biggest problem has been pinning down an area with enough potentials. Right now, they're all over the place.

@ Regula, the gelding is off the table. I saw what you see in the top line and he is just too far. It's about 2600 miles and would cost me an arm and a leg. At his age, I don't know how he would handle the trip either.

If you guys don't mind taking a gander, I will continue to post potentials for consideration here for feedback?


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## Boo Walker

I would love to hear from you after you see her and ride her- I have a feeling you'll know quickly that this isn't for you or that you've fallen completely in love!


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> Yes, you have confused things. There is no can't/won't do dressage. The girl was too young and too small to do anything serious with the friesian. The horse was also too big for her. They did a few intro tests and in hand shows with the mare. Previous owner did training level - I have no other info on them. Now that the girl has the smaller horse and is a little older (10), she has gotten more serious about doing dressage. The girl did not have the skill or ability to do anything more with this mare.
> 
> I also think you have my interest in this horse confused. She is simply an option on the table. Her appeal is that she is a lot closer than most horses I've found, knows some dressage, and is safe and sound according to the owner. Reaching 2nd or 3rd level is at the bottom of my list for considering a horse.
> 
> I continue to look at horses every day and I also have a lease option that I REALLY like who has shown 1st level, trained by my trainer, and I'm currently taking lessons on. I'm in no hurry to buy and I won't know if a horse is for me until I actually go see and ride it. Because she was close, I figured it didn't hurt to go out and take a look. I have sent inquiry on about 12 horses in the past few days. Since I can't find any close to me, the plan is to find several in a general area and do a weekend trip to go see and ride them. My biggest problem has been pinning down an area with enough potentials. Right now, they're all over the place.
> 
> @ Regula, the gelding is off the table. I saw what you see in the top line and he is just too far. It's about 2600 miles and would cost me an arm and a leg. At his age, I don't know how he would handle the trip either.
> 
> If you guys don't mind taking a gander, I will continue to post potentials for consideration here for feedback?


Horse shopping is hard, almost as hard as saddle shopping.


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## Chevaux

I agree with LoriF -- horse shopping can be hard. In my experience, you frequently have to compromise if you want a horse to ride. One time I was in the market for a new horse, did the compromise thing and got a very good mare (which I still have, of course) but she mostly did not fit the description of my dream horse. After I bought her, I kept searching (by way of experiment) and it was a good three years before I found an ad for a horse that came closest to all the aspects I wanted in a dream horse so had I waited I would have lost all that riding time.


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## jaydee

Just a thought
Go and see the mare and try her then you can walk away if she's awful but if you like her you can make them an offer based on her age and lack of recent dressage schooling/competing which will have its limitations - IMO no more than $1,500.00
If they need to move this mare then chances are they'll think about it for a week or two and then sell to you because they're going to struggle to get what they want for her especially this close to winter


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## Tihannah

jaydee said:


> Just a thought
> Go and see the mare and try her then you can walk away if she's awful but if you like her you can make them an offer based on her age and lack of recent dressage schooling/competing which will have its limitations - IMO no more than $1,500.00
> If they need to move this mare then chances are they'll think about it for a week or two and then sell to you because they're going to struggle to get what they want for her especially this close to winter


That's a great idea. We'll see what happens! She does seem to be in better condition than the gelding though.


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## 40232

Would you ever consider horses like these? Younger, in your price range, tall...

Zia, Grey Warmblood Cross Mare, Zia 13 yo 16hh warmblood cross grey mare in Florida - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2014285

Nero Black Magic, Black Friesian Cross Gelding, 2009 FLASHY Friesian Cross TB Sport Horse Gelding in Florida - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 1957223

Just options... I think the mare could be a really good horse to grow with, and the gelding could surprise you. Something right will come along eventually, Patience is a virtue when horse shopping :lol:


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## Tihannah

KylieHuitema said:


> Would you ever consider horses like these? Younger, in your price range, tall...
> 
> Zia, Grey Warmblood Cross Mare, Zia 13 yo 16hh warmblood cross grey mare in Florida - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2014285
> 
> Nero Black Magic, Black Friesian Cross Gelding, 2009 FLASHY Friesian Cross TB Sport Horse Gelding in Florida - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 1957223
> 
> Just options... I think the mare could be a really good horse to grow with, and the gelding could surprise you. Something right will come along eventually, Patience is a virtue when horse shopping :lol:


I actually have looked at both and have Nero saved in my favorites. I sent a message to the owner, but haven't heard back yet. With Zia I didn't save her because it sounded like she may have soundness issues. I don't have plans to do any jumping, but it says she can't if she tried. That was kind of a red flag for me.


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## Tihannah

I was sent this guy too. Is it just me or does he look off in the hind end?


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## rookie

I see a head nod and would say yes that horse is lame on the hind end.


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## 40232

King Of The Sky Boy, Grey AQHA Quarter Horse Appendix Gelding, 10 yr old Appendix gelding in Florida - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2014794

Noble Watch, Bay Warmblood Cross Gelding, 16 2h Sound Athletic Warmblood Gelding - IDEAL in North Carolina - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2013537

Far from you, but I like the looks of this guy a lot:
Patton, Black Oldenburg Gelding, Dressage Schoolmaster in California - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2013854


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## DanteDressageNerd

No he is definitely lame behind, how manageable it is or why he's lame I can't say exactly but he's definitely off. And personally if this were my horse and I were trying to sell him I'd run the full diagnostics to identify the lameness whether it is in his legs or his back and get it treated. Whether it is from bad farrier work, saddle fit, or anything else before advertising. I've known some people get some stellar deals on horse's because their owners couldn't keep them sound. And horses (and people) go so much better when they're not uncomfortable or in pain.


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## Tihannah

KylieHuitema said:


> King Of The Sky Boy, Grey AQHA Quarter Horse Appendix Gelding, 10 yr old Appendix gelding in Florida - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2014794
> 
> Noble Watch, Bay Warmblood Cross Gelding, 16 2h Sound Athletic Warmblood Gelding - IDEAL in North Carolina - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2013537
> 
> Far from you, but I like the looks of this guy a lot:
> Patton, Black Oldenburg Gelding, Dressage Schoolmaster in California - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2013854


Not crazy about the appendix. He looks like it would take a lot of work to get him round. 

I've looked at Noble Watch, but saw that he's 11 and hasn't been started in anything specific. Ideally, I would like something that already has the foundations of dressage.

Patton is in my favorites list, though I haven't seen any video or inquired about him. The price, plus flying out to see him, plus PPE, plus shipping is a hard sell. I keep hoping to find something similar that is closer. :-/


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## 40232

Tihannah said:


> Not crazy about the appendix. He looks like it would take a lot of work to get him round.
> 
> I've looked at Noble Watch, but saw that he's 11 and hasn't been started in anything specific. Ideally, I would like something that already has the foundations of dressage.
> 
> Patton is in my favorites list, though I haven't seen any video or inquired about him. The price, plus flying out to see him, plus PPE, plus shipping is a hard sell. I keep hoping to find something similar that is closer. :-/


Patton was also my favorite... He seems like a wonderful starter horse. I'm sure something will come up soon enough


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## stevenson

I like her. She is a nice looking horse, I don't see anything that screams off or bad . 
lovely mare.


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## jaydee

That horse in the video looked lame so I'd leave him well alone
I don't worry so much when I see an older horse that's got some T Shirts to prove itself and is described as being excellent being sold cheaply but I do see red lights flashing when its a younger horse - usually means its got a few quirks that can make it less ideal for the average owner/rider


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## Tihannah

The owner of the Friesian mare messaged me yesterday and said her plans for this weekend have been canceled, so I am driving up on Saturday to see her. She also had her daughter ride yesterday and sent me several more video clips. I gotta say, this mare does not move like a 17, almost 18yr old. She was very forward in the videos even after not being ridden in a few months. But its also hard to judge her with a 40lb young girl riding her. I am eager to see how she responds with an adult in the saddle.


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## Eolith

Definitely let us know how it goes and what you think of how she rides. I'm very curious!


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## jaydee

You could say the same of my old ID mare and she's got Cushings (on Pergolide) but she's very forward going and we call her 'Raging Bull' when she gets a bit antsy!!!


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## Tihannah

Not great videos and I dubbed them over with music cause mom was talking to daughter a lot. I think someone with a more advanced seat could present this mare a little better, but I like her.


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## Skyseternalangel

The second video looks like she's riding a giant hotdog... why is it all stretched out?


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## Tihannah

Skyseternalangel said:


> The second video looks like she's riding a giant hotdog... why is it all stretched out?


Lol, she took it on her iphone and went she sent it over, it was all weird like that and turned the wrong way. I tried to fix it, but it was the best I could do.


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## DanteDressageNerd

She seems like a good mare. She looks like she'd be easy to ride on the aids and organize once she's told to but to me it looks like she'd need to be in a program for a little while to get her in shape and conditioned to listen to a rider and not do what she wants. I'd be curious to see how she is with an adult. 

Would you be able to have your trainer put a few rides on her, if you decide you absolutely love her and can't live without her.


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## jaydee

I think she's going to need some work to get her (back?) into a decent dressage frame
When I look at those videos she really does somehow remind me of this ID of mine (Willow). If I worked her hard on the lunge then rode her myself I could then put a little child on her and she'd be OK like that mare is but if she isn't worked consistently and she's feeling 'fresh' she's a real handful when she wants to be
I have a feeling that mare might be the same but unless you go and see for yourself there's no way of knowing


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## Tihannah

jaydee said:


> I think she's going to need some work to get her (back?) into a decent dressage frame
> When I look at those videos she really does somehow remind me of this ID of mine (Willow). If I worked her hard on the lunge then rode her myself I could then put a little child on her and she'd be OK like that mare is but if she isn't worked consistently and she's feeling 'fresh' she's a real handful when she wants to be
> I have a feeling that mare might be the same but unless you go and see for yourself there's no way of knowing


It was the opposite actually. These were 2 of about 8 she sent me. Stills of them getting tacked up, mounting, and then walking and trot to warm her up. All the young girl riding. The canter video was towards the end when she was fully warmed up and really going.

This is her sire:





Her dam is Hetske Ster pref. but I have been unable to find a good photo of her.


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## NavigatorsMom

I'm really interested to hear how you feel after you try her out on Saturday! 

Her movement is odd to me, probably because I know very little about friesians, but perhaps you will like it. Also seemed like some misbehavior at the canter in the recent video you posted but she may do differently for an adult. I'm very curious to see!


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## LoriF

Skyseternalangel said:


> The second video looks like she's riding a giant hotdog... why is it all stretched out?


She's a limousine. lol


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## LoriF

I'm glad you are going to see her. Then you will know if you like her and get her or not and get her out of your system. If you like her, maybe they will come down on the price a little. I highly doubt they will sell her for 1,500. though as someone else suggested. I think she's a pretty nice mare, but I'm partial to the girls.


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> She seems like a good mare. She looks like she'd be easy to ride on the aids and organize once she's told to but to me it looks like she'd need to be in a program for a little while to get her in shape and conditioned to listen to a rider and not do what she wants. I'd be curious to see how she is with an adult.
> 
> Would you be able to have your trainer put a few rides on her, if you decide you absolutely love her and can't live without her.


I thought I posted a response to this already, but I was at work and trying to sneak posts in between working! Lol. But yea, if I like her, I'm going to see if she would be open to at least letting me do a 2 week trial. That way I can get her to my barn and have both my trainer and my vet fully evaluate her and do a PPE. They wouldn't steer me wrong.

During the video, I dubbed out where mom and daughter were discussing how when she was being ridden regularly, it was easy to get her round and on the bit. Personally, the little girl did not look like she had reached that skill yet and I didn't see a lot of balance or control in her hands or seat in order to do this. My guess is that whoever had her previously had put this work into her, and I would have to work to get it back. I'm going to get video when I ride and do my best to get her round and on the bit, even though I'm a novice at it myself. I see some potential in this mare and she looks like she would be something I could handle and easy to work with, but I will find out for sure on Friday.


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## MyBayQHFilly

I honestly don't get the appeal. You couldn't give me one.


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## trailhorserider

MyBayQHFilly said:


> I honestly don't get the appeal. You couldn't give me one.


That's sorta rude. I bet a lot of Friesian owners would say the same thing about Quarter Horses!

Everyone is different. To me, that is pretty darn close to my dream horse! The only thing that would slow me down was her price. But if a person can afford it and that is their dream horse, what's wrong with that?

I think Friesians are VERY drool worthy. I would like one based on looks alone (and safe temperment/ safe training of course). They wouldn't even have to be smooth to ride, I do most of my riding at a walk. 

I know a lot of people seem to dislike Arabians......which is unfortunate because I think they are awesome (I've owed 2). But that doesn't mean they aren't someone elses' absolute dream horse. 

So coming from a "dream horse" perspective, I think she' s lovely and will hopefully give many good years of service.

From a "I gotta be competitive" perspective, maybe not. But not everyone is all about competing. For some of us, just riding and grooming and enjoying the horse is all we aspire to do. That's a decision the OP has to make for herself.


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## Tihannah

MyBayQHFilly said:


> I honestly don't get the appeal. You couldn't give me one.


Haha. I feel the same way about corvettes. Don't see the appeal and you couldn't give me one, but doesn't mean they aren't nice and a lot of people's dream car. 

It's a good thing though. Everyone has their own style of riding they favor, their own purpose and goals, and their own image of the perfect horse. That's what makes it fun.


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## jaydee

This isn't about someone else's personal choice - it's about this specific horse and what the OP wants
If you like her after you've ridden her then be sure to have bloods taken on a day when you ride her to rule out and pain or sedative meds
I've been around too many dealers and horse sellers in my life to trust anyone which is pretty sad but its how I learnt not to get caught out
Don't misunderstand me - I'm not accusing them of trying to trick you because they are hopefully totally honest, but you don't know what they'd done with the horse prior to them videoing her being groomed, tacked up and the child riding her. Its not wise to be too trusting
Re. her price - given her age and lack of real work for several years she might be a very nice looking Friesian but as she stands at present she's no more than a trail horse (no evidence of that though) in her senior years so that's all she's worth


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## Smilie

Freisens were originally driving horses, esp in the Old World
Then, they became the 'new; thing, far a being rare over here, and evolved to being used more under saddle.
Breeding also changed, to promote a better moving horse, thus two distinct types of Fresiens resulted, with the ones bred to be sport horses/saddle horses having movement improved
TO me, this horse has too much knee action to go far in dressage


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## Tihannah

jaydee said:


> This isn't about someone else's personal choice - it's about this specific horse and what the OP wants
> If you like her after you've ridden her then be sure to have bloods taken on a day when you ride her to rule out and pain or sedative meds
> I've been around too many dealers and horse sellers in my life to trust anyone which is pretty sad but its how I learnt not to get caught out
> Don't misunderstand me - I'm not accusing them of trying to trick you because they are hopefully totally honest, but you don't know what they'd done with the horse prior to them videoing her being groomed, tacked up and the child riding her. Its not wise to be too trusting
> Re. her price - given her age and lack of real work for several years she might be a very nice looking Friesian but as she stands at present she's no more than a trail horse (no evidence of that though) in her senior years so that's all she's worth


My trainer comes from the same school of thought, which is why she always suggests a trial period. She bought her last lesson horse from a "trusted" person and drove all the way to N.C. to pick it up. Its now listed back up for sale and cannot be used in her program because its just too spooky. 

If I like her, I plan to do some serious negotiating on price. I won't pay $6k for her and if she won't negotiate, then I have no qualms with walking away.


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## jaydee

Very smart
When I watched the last video the mare seemed to come out looking rather sharp and tense and though she settled down a bit she still had that look about her a few times when she seemed to be looking outside of the arena as if wanting an excuse to spook at something
I just have this niggling thing in my head that asks why parents would buy a Friesian horse of that size for a 7 year old - they are so elevated they can be hard for even a standard size/weight rider to sit too let alone a child.


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## sarahfromsc

^ This! There is just something about the whole thing. And the vanner as a dressage horse? I don't get that either.


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## Tihannah

You would understand if I had not dubbed out the talking with music. IMO, daughter is more or less showing for fun right now in all categories - Dressage, Hunter, in hand shows. I really don't think they know which direction they really want to go yet. She is showing and coming home with blue and red ribbons and they are happy. Mom told me the gypsy vanner is her favorite breed and friesian is 2nd. I believe mom rides a draft or draft cross, but doesn't show. At least that's what is in one of the videos. 

I'm heading out bright and early in the morning. I should get there around noon or so. I will try to get lots of pics and video. I have asked her to leave the mare in pasture so I can see her being caught, groomed, and tacked up before riding.

I'll likely be going by myself. My trainer is busy with lessons at the barn and can't come, so any particular questions I should ask in case I forget? Things to look for?


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## LoriF

MyBayQHFilly said:


> I honestly don't get the appeal. You couldn't give me one.


That's probably a good thing because I haven't seen a Friesian being given away yet.


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## LoriF

sarahfromsc said:


> ^ This! There is just something about the whole thing. And the vanner as a dressage horse? I don't get that either.


Any horse can be taught dressage. It does help them to move better no matter what discipline they are in.


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## Tihannah

And here, another one that popped up in my search criteria. They are asking $7500 for this horse and a link to this video which CLEARLY shows something terribly wrong in his hind end! I just don't get it. I'm as green as the grinch, but even I can see that something is wrong. Why would they try to sell a horse at this price in this condition?? He's struggling so badly in the canter!


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## sarahfromsc

LoriF said:


> Any horse can be taught dressage. It does help them to move better no matter what discipline they are in.


Yes I know. My arab and I hear the snickers at dressage shows.


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## jaydee

Looking forward to hearing how you get on - hope it goes well.


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## Yogiwick

Tihannah said:


> I actually have looked at both and have Nero saved in my favorites. I sent a message to the owner, but haven't heard back yet. With Zia I didn't save her because it sounded like she may have soundness issues. I don't have plans to do any jumping, but it says she can't if she tried. That was kind of a red flag for me.


It could mean she has training issues or that "if you come to try her I won't allow jumping". The ad specifically says she's sound so while you can't guarantee it of course I would at least send them a message as opposed to not saving over the wording of one sentence.

Of my horses one has soundness issues (laminitis) and the other two are older (well all 3 are), 2 of which are just NOT built for jumping. I would not sell to a jumping home.

The fourth is my project and she is young and could physically jump very well but she is my project due to her brain being fried at a lesson barn. She is going beautifully now but I would not sell her to a jumping home, she would need a lot more training before I'd consider that.

It sounds like they've been keeping her low key, maybe she's just out of shape. Do at least send a message and ask why. No harm done. I am really getting "no jumping if you come out to try her" out of that, which doesn't matter.


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## Yogiwick

Reading the other posts. While I haven't ridden a Friesan myself, that I remember, I understand it's very easy to get them to *look* like a good dressage mount and very difficult to get them to ACTUALLY move properly. They are a fad as far as dressage goes. They are not bred for it, they just have flashy movement and in fact are bred to move more of the opposite than you want in a dressage horse.

Any horse can look like it's going round when it's not.

I think this mare would be a project and would not buy her as a dressage prospect. I don't even care about the age, take that out aside from the factor that at this point she's only had very little training.

If you like her that's great but I would not buy her as a dressage horse.

Training level is just that and someone who I know nothing about and a 10 year old saying a mare was "easy to get round" (what 10 years ago too?) who's only had the very basics of dressage done...

I would put her training as "good kids horse" and stop thinking of her as dressage trained. Maybe she will surprise but I don't think so. A horse trained for a different discipline with a good foundation would be an equivalent for me.


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## Smilie

Tihannah said:


> You would understand if I had not dubbed out the talking with music. IMO, daughter is more or less showing for fun right now in all categories - Dressage, Hunter, in hand shows. I really don't think they know which direction they really want to go yet. She is showing and coming home with blue and red ribbons and they are happy. Mom told me the gypsy vanner is her favorite breed and friesian is 2nd. I believe mom rides a draft or draft cross, but doesn't show. At least that's what is in one of the videos.
> 
> I'm heading out bright and early in the morning. I should get there around noon or so. I will try to get lots of pics and video. I have asked her to leave the mare in pasture so I can see her being caught, groomed, and tacked up before riding.
> 
> I'll likely be going by myself. My trainer is busy with lessons at the barn and can't come, so any particular questions I should ask in case I forget? Things to look for?


Please don't take this the wrong way, as I certainly think that if the horse turns out to be what you want, you should go with your instincts
However, at the moment you have a draft cross, that has proven to lack the attributes you want, being where you now are at, and thus I wonder why you still seem drawn and limit yourself, to these type of horses.
Gypsy Varniers and Freisens have both capitalized on the 'breeder's market over here, being relatively 'rare' Neither have gone on so far to prove themselves in any discipline. Both are light draft horses, although I have seen some elegant Freisiens, compared to Varriers, which are just heavy looking horses to me, with color and lots of hair
Since dressage is your interest, why then limit how far you can go, buying a breed not taken seriously by any dressage person?
Yes, any horse can do basic dressage
Heck, I used to have a dressage rider interested in buying any solid tall Appaloosas I had, as they made great dressage horses, but she was not ready to openly ride a loud colored App! 
Pay ans GO,was an Appaloosa that went Grad Prix, and who gave the tribute to Linda Mc carthy, But it is still other breeds ( WarmBloods ) that dominate dressage in numbers


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## Tihannah

On my way home. Just stopped to get gas. Went very well! Details and responses when I make it home!


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## Tihannah

Smilie said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, as I certainly think that if the horse turns out to be what you want, you should go with your instincts
> However, at the moment you have a draft cross, that has proven to lack the attributes you want, being where you now are at, and thus I wonder why you still seem drawn and limit yourself, to these type of horses.
> Gypsy Varniers and Freisens have both capitalized on the 'breeder's market over here, being relatively 'rare' Neither have gone on so far to prove themselves in any discipline. Both are light draft horses, although I have seen some elegant Freisiens, compared to Varriers, which are just heavy looking horses to me, with color and lots of hair
> Since dressage is your interest, why then limit how far you can go, buying a breed not taken seriously by any dressage person?
> Yes, any horse can do basic dressage
> Heck, I used to have a dressage rider interested in buying any solid tall Appaloosas I had, as they made great dressage horses, but she was not ready to openly ride a loud colored App!
> Pay ans GO,was an Appaloosa that went Grad Prix, and who gave the tribute to Linda Mc carthy, But it is still other breeds ( WarmBloods ) that dominate dressage in numbers


I'm started to feel like a broken record on this one and I just typed out a very LONG response, and then my internet locked up and I lost it and I don't feel like typing it all out again, so I'll summarize.

YES, I LOVE dressage. I want to "learn" it very much, but I've gotten started way too late in the game to become a serious competitor and I really have no desire to. I want to compete in local shows for fun when the mood strikes me, and that's it. So again, selecting a horse specifically for this goal is not my top priority.

And people keep referring back to Sidney as an example, so I don't think I was clear explaining on why she is not working out. It's not just because she's not good at dressage. It's because she's not really good at ANYTHING besides trail rides and being a beginner lesson horse. She's 1700lbs with no real training in anything. She doesn't mind being ridden, but hates any kind of real work and is just trying to get it over with as quickly as possible. The only thought process she seems to be having when you're trying to teach her something is, "Are we done yet??" She has been great at helping me build confidence and develop my seat, but that's about it.

What I want is a horse that is SAFE like Sidney, but will put in the work or use their brain and try to figure things out when we're attempting something new, and then be fine if I wanna hack out with a group of friends. Something well rounded that I can simply enjoy.


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## Tihannah

Okay...now on to the visit!

It was a 5 hour drive and GRUELING! Lol. But Alabama is absolutely gorgeous this time of year! When I got there, they already had her in the barn and was vacuuming her! It was in the 40s when I got there, so a little too cool for a bath. Needless to say, she was quiet as could be during the whole process.

Met Mom, Dad, and the daughter, and all were just super friendly and welcoming and gave me free reign to do whatever I wanted with the mare. The daughter and a friend tacked their horses up so they could ride with me.
I brought my saddle with me cause I was curious to see if it would fit her. Fit like a glove, so I ended up tacking her up in all my gear, except the bridle. She was not girthy at all, even though she was in season. 

We started out in their outdoor arena and I immediately went to giving aids and cues to see how she responded. She was SUPER easy to guide with the aids and had good forward movement without being too forward. She is very attentive to her rider and constantly tuning in to follow your lead. There was a young stallion on the other side of the fence and he was running next to us whenever we hit that side, but she ignored him even though she was in season.

I finally got to experience what everyone was referring to with the Friesian trot! Lol. Definitely a more bumpy ride than I'm used to, but I didn't find it that difficult to adjust to. The canter was MUCH smoother and caught me off guard after the trot. It felt like going from a dune buggy to a cadillac! Lol.

Now, like I said, I'm pretty green and have just started to learn about getting a horse on the bit, but I did manage to have some success after getting her warmed up. It was obvious that she had been taught this, but the little girl had not emphasized it in her riding so she was rusty. As we rode, I could tell she was really trying to figure out just what it was I was asking of her. In the short clip below, you can see that I got it in the canter for a few strides and then lost it. I also lost my seat because I haven't had a lot of practice at the canter since Sid is so difficult at it. But throughout our short ride, I would get her on, then lose it, so I think with consistent work, she would not be difficult to get right. I could be wrong and just THINK I'm seeing her correct too though. Lol.






After about 30-40 min in the arena, the daughter invited me on a trail ride on the property, just the two of us. We went up some pretty steep hills and uneven ground in wooded areas. I was quite worried thinking how much larger my butt was than the little girl and how much trouble she would have carrying me up these steep hills, but she was a true champ. She never spooked or huffed at a single thing. There were roughly 20 horses on the property in different pastures on every side and when we rode past, a few would come charging towards us at the fence. Didn't phase her at all. A group of geldings ran up and she just stopped for a second and looked at them like, "Do we have a problem?" Then we moved on.

I have to say, I was really impressed at how well she did after not being ridden in over a year except for short rides by small kids here and there. I put her through a good workout and she wasn't even panting. Afterwards it had warmed up a good bit, so we hosed her off and groomed her a bit. She has an incredible temperament.



The only negative I could really see is that she's lost a good bit of topline from not being ridden in so long. I'm not sure how long it would take or what all it require to bring this back?

Mom and Dad were just super sweet folks and even invited me out to dinner with them, but I had to get back. I think there's definitely room for negotiation, and I think they'd really like me to have her. I was there 4 hours, so I know there's a lot I'm forgetting, but I thought the mare was super sweet, super safe, easy to handle, smart and willing.


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## rookie

So, are you making an offer? You could try a one month trial/lease with the option to buy. That way you can figure out if her being amazing was her start or if she gets better. It sounds like a really good horse.


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## Tihannah

I feel like I definitely need a trial. I really want my vet and trainer to see her.  At the same time, I feel like I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I didnt at least go look at a few other horses. My problem, of course, is finding ones that are worth seeing, but within driving distance.


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## LoriF

Honestly, if it were my mare, I wouldn't let her go on a five hour trailer ride without being paid for. Maybe they would though with a really tight contract. I would have to be 99% sure that I wanted her before I would ask.
As far as the mare goes, I think she would shape up pretty nicely with consistent work providing she can hold up to it. Did you see any red flags when you were looking at her? I would have a ppe done there before I took her on a trial so no one can say I did something to her.


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## Tihannah

Back to conformation. When standing in cross ties, I noticed that she stands with her rear feet close together. They're not splayed or pigeon toed. Just close together and I can't say I've ever noticed a horse that stands like this. Not sure if it's a sign of something else? 



You can also see the loss of muscle in her chest in this pic?


Topline


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## Rainaisabelle

I love the way fresians look in the canter they're just gorgeous. I like her and her age doesn't really bother me people are still competing with their horses aged 25 and up as long as they are fit and healthy why not? 


Don't limit yourself though look at some others before making your final decision! As my friend said even wen you have a horse you're window shopping for another


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> Honestly, if it were my mare, I wouldn't let her go on a five hour trailer ride without being paid for. Maybe they would though with a really tight contract. I would have to be 99% sure that I wanted her before I would ask.
> As far as the mare goes, I think she would shape up pretty nicely with consistent work providing she can hold up to it. Did you see any red flags when you were looking at her? I would have a ppe done there before I took her on a trial so no one can say I did something to her.


She has another Gypsy Vanner that she is selling to someone in Texas and mentioned that she was going to take both in on Tuesday to make sure Coggins and everything was updated and have PPE's done. They kept remarking that they loved that I lived in MS, only 5 hours away, so that they could come and visit her sometime.


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## Tihannah

To answer the question on their choice in horses for the child. They originally purchased 2 friesians, and the mare was chosen because she was previously used as a lesson horse for kids at a training barn. They bought her sight unseen. At the previous place they were boarding at, someone left a load of hay right in front of the other Friesians stall, and it literally ate itself to death. So they moved to this barn and the owner is a gypsy vanner breeder. They were everywhere! Lol. 

The daughter began riding one of broodmares, fell in love, and started showing her. The owner refused to sell and did not want certain things being done to the horse (clipping, etc.), so they bought her her own gypsy. The parents and barn owner are now in partnership with the breeding program. This little girl and her gypsy were a sight. They had an amazing bond and that horse loved her. I watched her canter that horse with both hands stretched out to her sides. 

So yea, her parents bought her the horse based on temperament, not competitive ability. They show a lot, but you can see that the girl is just REALLY happy with her horse, and for some people, those things are more important than winning in the showring.


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## DraftyAiresMum

She's what they call "base narrow." Stands with her feet close in both front and back. IIRC, it's pretty common in friesians. It doesn't really effect them too terribly much, I don't think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tihannah

DraftyAiresMum said:


> She's what they call "base narrow." Stands with her feet close in both front and back. IIRC, it's pretty common in friesians. It doesn't really effect them too terribly much, I don't think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh okay, she didn't seem off in movement in any way. It was just something I noticed when we were hosing her off. She had great feet too, but they said they keep her shod on all 4.


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## Tihannah

Just a couple still shots of us. Wish the lighting was better.


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## jaydee

First - I'm really pleased to hear that the trip and viewing went so well
You rode her OK in that short video clip and I think with your longer legs and more power in your body than that child once you get used to the very different action you would probably soon get her going well
If you made mistakes/got it wrong and she tolerated it then that's a very positive thing in her favour
Don't worry about the topline - she's older but not ancient and she's in good health, that will get sorted
The thing with her feet being close together is normal for that breed and quite a few others
I do think you should look at some more horses before buying one if you can
Don't be offended if they refuse a trial as I will never let a horse go on an off site trial - I will consider a trial from my property so I'm supervising and I have sold horses with the agreement to buy them back provided they're still in the same good state of condition as when they left me


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## Golden Horse

From the still that you have posted and the video clip, you are going to have a ton of work to do with this one, so be prepared.

This is the voice of experience, I have recently bought a mare who ducks behind the vertical like that, and it is a constant balancing act trying to push her forward, then lift that head again, you can see the idea here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q5uAAZVjwY

I am getting help with her, because my timing sucks sometimes, and I need to get so much stronger in my seat to lift and push her.

It is not a deal breaker, but just be aware it can be a difficult job to try and rectify this.


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## Tihannah

jaydee said:


> First - I'm really pleased to hear that the trip and viewing went so well
> You rode her OK in that short video clip and I think with your longer legs and more power in your body than that child once you get used to the very different action you would probably soon get her going well
> If you made mistakes/got it wrong and she tolerated it then that's a very positive thing in her favour
> Don't worry about the topline - she's older but not ancient and she's in good health, that will get sorted
> The thing with her feet being close together is normal for that breed and quite a few others
> I do think you should look at some more horses before buying one if you can
> Don't be offended if they refuse a trial as I will never let a horse go on an off site trial - I will consider a trial from my property so I'm supervising and I have sold horses with the agreement to buy them back provided they're still in the same good state of condition as when they left me


Thanks! I have a lot of work to do yet in my canter seat and positioning, but it's just not something I've been able to work on with Sid. Her canter is VERY difficult to sit. Like being in a washing machine. Her canter was like night and day compared to Sid.


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## Tihannah

Golden Horse said:


> From the still that you have posted and the video clip, you are going to have a ton of work to do with this one, so be prepared.
> 
> This is the voice of experience, I have recently bought a mare who ducks behind the vertical like that, and it is a constant balancing act trying to push her forward, then lift that head again, you can see the idea here
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q5uAAZVjwY
> 
> I am getting help with her, because my timing sucks sometimes, and I need to get so much stronger in my seat to lift and push her.
> 
> It is not a deal breaker, but just be aware it can be a difficult job to try and rectify this.


Haha, I am waay to green and not sure what you mean? I'm not sure why he keeps pulling her head up in the video?


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## Golden Horse

Tihannah said:


> Haha, I am waay to green and not sure what you mean? I'm not sure why he keeps pulling her head up in the video?


Ah, OK, in which case I would really suggest you pass on this mare....

In dressage we really would like to see a horse with his nose on the vertical, like this, although the nose here is maybe a little out in front










This looks nice



This is our aim, now some people think that the dressage horse should look like this










but that is just so wrong, he has his nose way Behind the Vertical BTV, a horse cannot work properly with the head curled all the way in. If you want to compete this would have to be corrected, because (hopefully) judges would mark you down for it.

Fergie was ridden by someone with not a great deal of knowledge, and we think in draw reins, her natural 'thing' is to be a giraffe with head up, so draw reins were used to keep the head down, so now she thinks that is what we want, so each and every time it goes down it has to come back up. Sadly to many people worry about what goes on in front of the saddle, when they should be working on behind. My challenge with my mare, is to get her really working from behind, while keeping that head in a nice place.


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## Tihannah

Ahhh...well, what you are seeing may be more me than her. This was only 10-15 min riding her and I was attempting to push her forward from behind and onto the bit. But you can see in the video that though it didn't last long, she appeared (at least to me) to be stepping under herself in the first few strides before I lost it. What I learned is that the little girl was using more pulling and yanking with her, than pushing her forward into the bit, so this was just me trying to work her through it. My trainer thinks she lovely and if anyone could help me work through it, she can. 

Oh, and from what I understand, friesians tend to naturally fall into that headset? I trying to focus more on the rear. I didn't get it on video, but at one point, I did feel her back come up and pop me up in the saddle. It was pretty amazing. lol.


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## Golden Horse

A set of photos for you....if I have them in the right order

Here she is just kind of left to herself, she would like to go along head up, back hollow, looking at everything








When you ask her to round up, she responds by just wacking that head down and under, she has not engaged any of her body, it is all happening in front, because that is all she knows









Now I have to try and get her both work more from behind, so more leg and seat, but explaining that does not mean 'faster' it means work more, at the same time not letting that head escape..this is about the best we can do


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## Tihannah

Ahhh, yes. I see what you mean here. #1 is Sidney all day!


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## Chevaux

QUOTE by GoldenHorse: "...Sadly to many people worry about what goes on in front of the saddle, when they should be working on behind..."

So true.


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## DanteDressageNerd

I'm glad the trip went well and you finally got to go out and see a potential horse.

Personally I'd keep looking but keep her in mind. If you really like her and your trainer likes her, there is no reason why you can't ask about a trial. And I think that's awesome your trainer supports you and likes this mare too. It looks like she'd be a good fit, she seems kind and like she has a good work ethic. It might take some time to bring her back, maybe your trainer could put on a few rides but doable. She looks like she has had an education.

As for her being behind the vertical. I don't think that's a big deal. To me it looks like in the video she was getting tired and is out of shape, so carrying herself is hard. Horses will still have moments of being behind but it takes time to develop the topline and develop their strength. A lot of horses do it when they're tired or arent' sure about contact or are unbalanced, etc. Half halts from the hind end and helping them to sit and doing laterals and teaching them how to use their body and giving them time to rest as they build up strength and conditioning helps. It just takes time and building that skill set. It took a lot to correct my young horse and he still does it sometimes but that's not uncommon.

I've been meaning to say something about friesians as dressage horses and upper level horses in general. I apologize if this is too late and at this point irrelevant but I wanted to say I'll agree friesians are not an ideal dressage horse. They're not the horses you'll see at international competitions or the olympics but they are in my opinion very good amateur horses and can do very well in dressage. The ones I've known have had good temperaments and while in the south we might say, "oh bless your heart" to them, they seem to have good work ethics and mean well. Friesians can do upper level dressage, not every horse can compete in the upper levels but most people do not NEED an upper level or FEI quality horse. A lot of the times horses with upper level capability are not easy rides and by not easy I mean are very tricky, difficult horses to work with and are not suitable for most riders and many professionals. I'll use my young horse as an example, he has upper level capability but he's a very tricky ride. I won't get into it but I will say he has a major F you button and it doesn't take much to send him over the edge. He's a very tact oriented ride. He's probably one of my favorite horses I've ever ridden but a totally unsuitable horse for most riders, even good ones. And a lot of FEI quality horses are like that. They're just difficult and it's not that they were poorly trained or poorly ridden, it's just how they are. Some horses are more difficult than others, just like some people are more difficult than others. Also a lot of those horses if you saw them going as young horses I think most people would remark how plain they are, good training and good riding combined with natural talent makes those horses.

I understand you're not looking for an upper level horse, I just wanted to talk about it but I'm really glad you liked her and had a good time


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## Tihannah

DanteDressageNerd said:


> I'm glad the trip went well and you finally got to go out and see a potential horse.
> 
> Personally I'd keep looking but keep her in mind. If you really like her and your trainer likes her, there is no reason why you can't ask about a trial. And I think that's awesome your trainer supports you and likes this mare too. It looks like she'd be a good fit, she seems kind and like she has a good work ethic. It might take some time to bring her back, maybe your trainer could put on a few rides but doable. She looks like she has had an education.
> 
> As for her being behind the vertical. I don't think that's a big deal. To me it looks like in the video she was getting tired and is out of shape, so carrying herself is hard. Horses will still have moments of being behind but it takes time to develop the topline and develop their strength. A lot of horses do it when they're tired or arent' sure about contact or are unbalanced, etc. Half halts from the hind end and helping them to sit and doing laterals and teaching them how to use their body and giving them time to rest as they build up strength and conditioning helps. It just takes time and building that skill set. It took a lot to correct my young horse and he still does it sometimes but that's not uncommon.
> 
> I've been meaning to say something about friesians as dressage horses and upper level horses in general. I apologize if this is too late and at this point irrelevant but I wanted to say I'll agree friesians are not an ideal dressage horse. They're not the horses you'll see at international competitions or the olympics but they are in my opinion very good amateur horses and can do very well in dressage. The ones I've known have had good temperaments and while in the south we might say, "oh bless your heart" to them, they seem to have good work ethics and mean well. Friesians can do upper level dressage, not every horse can compete in the upper levels but most people do not NEED an upper level or FEI quality horse. A lot of the times horses with upper level capability are not easy rides and by not easy I mean are very tricky, difficult horses to work with and are not suitable for most riders and many professionals. I'll use my young horse as an example, he has upper level capability but he's a very tricky ride. I won't get into it but I will say he has a major F you button and it doesn't take much to send him over the edge. He's a very tact oriented ride. He's probably one of my favorite horses I've ever ridden but a totally unsuitable horse for most riders, even good ones. And a lot of FEI quality horses are like that. They're just difficult and it's not that they were poorly trained or poorly ridden, it's just how they are. Some horses are more difficult than others, just like some people are more difficult than others. Also a lot of those horses if you saw them going as young horses I think most people would remark how plain they are, good training and good riding combined with natural talent makes those horses.


THANK YOU!! What you mention is what I see in this mare and why I think she is a good match for me. She's willing, attentive to her rider, smart, and she's about a 2 on a scale of 1-10 bombproof. I even tested the dressage salute, and sure enough, she bowed right along with me! I realize that I may never reach 2nd level with this horse, and I'm okay with that, but I do see her as being a fabulous partner. What I enjoyed the most is that I felt confident and sure of myself on this horse. At no point did I have to worry that a wrong move could cause her to flip out on me. She was cool as a cucumber trying to figure me out. Despite this, I have STILL been looking and sent out a couple more inquiries, but haven't found anything within driving distance yet.

And funny that you mention that because I stumbled on an article the other day that was discussing the exact same thing! It said how rare it was that horses who excel at lower level to ever go Grand Prix or FEI, and those at Grand Prix/FEI would be terrible low level mounts, simply because the skill and expectations require 2 completely different kind of horses. This was something that had never dawned on me before.


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## LoriF

I think she will be a nice horse with consistent riding. Being base narrow will not be as exaggerated with a little more muscling to her as well. It will probably take a year to build up the muscle properly in her. If I bought her I would start out slow as to not cause any injuries. That's what I will have to do with my mare once I start riding her consistently again. 
Her tucking her head in is a common way to evade the bit and it will take conditioning her and having very kind hands to get her to not do this. It's a sign of not being too confident of the hands on her mouth but also could be from getting tired and not being in proper condition.

I would ask them why they keep her shod. I would also have my own ppe done.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> I think she will be a nice horse with consistent riding. Being base narrow will not be as exaggerated with a little more muscling to her as well. It will probably take a year to build up the muscle properly in her. If I bought her I would start out slow as to not cause any injuries. That's what I will have to do with my mare once I start riding her consistently again.
> Her tucking her head in is a common way to evade the bit and it will take conditioning her and having very kind hands to get her to not do this. It's a sign of not being too confident of the hands on her mouth but also could be from getting tired and not being in proper condition.
> 
> I would ask them why they keep her shod. I would also have my own ppe done.


The mom told me that the child has always been hard on the bit, so yes, I definitely see myself having to recondition that, and I will hopefully be able to get my trainer involved to help reschool her. PPE is also a definite.

I asked her about the being shod, and the only reasoning she gave me is that she came to them shod and they have a lot of gravel road and pavement areas on their property. They said they removed them at one point and saw she had some pain going over the graveled area, so they had them put back on. We don't have any areas at my barn that would be hard on the feet, but I'm not sure how the transition would be for her after being shod for so long?


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## Eolith

Tihannah said:


> We don't have any areas at my barn that would be hard on the feet, but I'm not sure how the transition would be for her after being shod for so long?


Our mare was shod for most of her life before I learned more about the benefits of barefoot and the drawbacks of keeping a horse shod constantly. We decided to try out going barefoot with her. At 20 years old, she got her shoes pulled. There was a bit of a transition period, but with the help of a skilled barefoot trimmer, her hooves are looking better than they ever have and she's as happy as a clam. It is most certainly possible to transition a horse to barefoot at any time. ^_^


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## Tihannah

Eolith said:


> Our mare was shod for most of her life before I learned more about the benefits of barefoot and the drawbacks of keeping a horse shod constantly. We decided to try out going barefoot with her. At 20 years old, she got her shoes pulled. There was a bit of a transition period, but with the help of a skilled barefoot trimmer, her hooves are looking better than they ever have and she's as happy as a clam. It is most certainly possible to transition a horse to barefoot at any time. ^_^


How long did it take to transition her to where she was comfortable?


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## Yogiwick

You can also pull backs then fronts after she is comfortable with her backs if you are worried about it.

Do get your own PPE with your own vet. I would disregard theirs and tell them I wanted my own before they waste their money.


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## DanteDressageNerd

And that's what really matters. That at the end of the day you're happy and feel successful. I think it's awesome that you had a good time and felt safe and confident, that's the most important thing. Hard to learn and thrive if you don't feel like you can. Also on searches maybe ask your trainer about any local clubs or organizations in your state or trainers websites to see if they have anything. You may have a better shot of that. But if you like her and everything don't put a cap on what you can or cannot do, just enjoy the process. As cliche as it is I really feel with dressage it's about the journey, not the destination. If it becomes about the destination I think we'd all be very disappointed and quit.

That is absolutely true. I know several horses who were not impressive at the lower levels what so ever but in the upper levels have done very well. It doesn't necessarily require a different type but sometimes you see a very different type of horse that excels at the lower levels vs the upper levels. It's like the horses that blow people away in the young horse classes but don't make it upper level. It happens a lot, I don't know why but some horses are initially impressive and show all this movement but when you start introducing elevation and collection somehow become ordinary, where as a less impressive horse becomes phenomenally impressive as they become more schooled. It's funny how it works sometimes. And I think judges emphasize very different points at the lower levels than they do the higher levels which may be a part of it too.


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## Tihannah

My trainer knows a lot of people at barns in surrounding areas, but these are all highly competitive barns and trainers. Their sale horses start around $10k and just keep going up, especially those used in dressage. Down here, you can only find gaited and quarter horses under $5k. Heck Sidney's owner wanted $7500 for her and a girl at my barn is trying to sell her Novice eventer TB for $10K even though he can't go any further.

I'm in negotiation talks with the owner of the mare, and they would really like me to have her so I think we may be able to come to an agreeable price. I really want MY vet to perform the PPE because he is awesome and fairly cheap. With the horse I had on trial, he did a full PPE with x-rays and only charged me $225. But using my vet would entail having her trailered down here first, so I'm wondering if I should place a deposit and then have the balance held on the condition of passing the PPE?


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## Golden Horse

That all depends on what the seller will go for, and you will have to agree who pays haulage if I she doesn't pass.

From a buyers point of view what you are suggesting sounds reasonable, as a seller who was burned on a sale this year, I would be wary of letting a horse go without full payment. 

Also, it is great to have people who are willing to work with you, BUT, when horse shopping always keep your cynical head on and ask yourself if they are being to accommodating, the ability to tell the difference between good honest people who think that you are a great fit for their horse, and the desperate, tell her anything to get her to buy it is priceless. I'm not for a minute saying there IS anything wrong, but always be cautious!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CrossCountry

I'm honestly not sure where you are located but I ran across this girl, and I immediately thought of this thread!

Princess Rummy: 2005, Draft/Cross, Mare at Warmblood-Sales.com


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## Tihannah

CrossCountry said:


> I'm honestly not sure where you are located but I ran across this girl, and I immediately thought of this thread!
> 
> Princess Rummy: 2005, Draft/Cross, Mare at Warmblood-Sales.com


I actually looked at her and thought she was nice, but too far away and over budget once I add in a round trip flight to see her, PPE, and transport. She would be well over $10K for a training level horse. Just too much for my blood. Lol. But thanks!

^^And this, of course, has been a constant roadblock in my search!


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## elle1959

She's beautiful. I'm also in the horse-hunting phase of life, and will add that I've not been able to get a horse on trial. The one I'm going to see today (two hour drive; I applaud you for being willing to do a 10 hour round trip!) can be held with a deposit, pending a vet check, but that's probably the best I can hope for around here. 

Good luck with your search. I hope you find the perfect match. Life is too short to accept less than that


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## Tihannah

elle1959 said:


> She's beautiful. I'm also in the horse-hunting phase of life, and will add that I've not been able to get a horse on trial. The one I'm going to see today (two hour drive; I applaud you for being willing to do a 10 hour round trip!) can be held with a deposit, pending a vet check, but that's probably the best I can hope for around here.
> 
> Good luck with your search. I hope you find the perfect match. Life is too short to accept less than that


Generally, I've only had luck on trials with horses close to me. The last one was only an hour away, so the owner trailered him over herself. I think owner's are more likely to agree if they're within driving distance to reclaim their horses should something go awry.

The owner of my mare has agreed to a deposit with the full sale pending PPE. Like the other, she insists on trailering the horse over herself, which I am fine with and I will be paying her transport costs.

Good luck on your search as well! What are you going to look at today?


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## elle1959

Tihannah said:


> Generally, I've only had luck on trials with horses close to me. The last one was only an hour away, so the owner trailered him over herself. I think owner's are more likely to agree if they're within driving distance to reclaim their horses should something go awry.
> 
> The owner of my mare has agreed to a deposit with the full sale pending PPE. Like the other, she insists on trailering the horse over herself, which I am fine with and I will be paying her transport costs.
> 
> Good luck on your search as well! What are you going to look at today?


A Spotted Saddle Horse mare. You can see pics of her here: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/spotted-saddle-horse-640506/#post8259714


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## Tihannah

Oh! I saw that thread this morning! She's purdy!! Lol. Good luck!!


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## jaydee

I'm pretty sure that the mare drops behind the vertical when she's trying to avoid pressure on her mouth - that's something that can be sorted out by your own riding improving - softer hands and balance, ridden more 'sympathetically' - and her doing more consistent work and feeling fitter and more able to work in a collected frame. 
If the child was using the reins like handlebars to balance herself on a horse that was altogether too big for her in size and action then she might have a bruised sore mouth after this week or so of more intensive work to get her ready for sale


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## Tihannah

I think you are correct. One thing that I noted is that after our work in the arena, she literally asked for a long rein to stretch out and long while still moving forward . I think the education is definitely there, but after years of being ridden by a child, she will just need a refresher and some re-conditioning.


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## LoriF

So, do you think you are getting her?


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## Tihannah

She's offering me a great deal, and its still pending PPE, but yes, we are looking at the weekend after Thanksgiving for delivery. 

Im flying out this Wednesday for my brother's basic training graduation and won't be back till Saturday, so I told her we could discuss final details then.


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## Tihannah

I also spoke with Sidney's owner and let her know that I was looking at a purchase and she was fine with ending the lease early, so that was a relief.


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## Eolith

Tihannah said:


> How long did it take to transition her to where she was comfortable?


We did start off by just removing her hind shoes, then pulling the fronts a few months later. I'd say that she seemed to be doing her best by about 6 months after all of the shoes were off. She was never in any significant discomfort -- just a little tender if she had to walk across gravel. She was comfortable throughout the process during our arena rides and in her usual stall/turnout. She's continuing to do great. 

I do think it's imperative to have a skilled trimmer who is familiar with some of the techniques that are specific to a barefoot trim. Of course, every horse, trimmer, and facility is different so it is possible that results may vary. :wink: I just wanted to share that it is definitely possible to transition a lifelong shod horse to a barefoot one later in life.


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## Tihannah

Eolith said:


> We did start off by just removing her hind shoes, then pulling the fronts a few months later. I'd say that she seemed to be doing her best by about 6 months after all of the shoes were off. She's continuing to do great.
> 
> I do think it's imperative to have a skilled trimmer who is familiar with some of the techniques that are specific to a barefoot trim. Of course, every horse, trimmer, and facility is different so it is possible that results may vary. :wink: I just wanted to share that it is definitely possible to transition a lifelong shod horse to a barefoot one later in life.


Her feet look fantastic, so I'm almost hesitant to pull them. Is there any detriment to keeping her shod, besides the cost, of course?


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## egrogan

Where I board horses with hind shoes aren't allowed in the large turnout pastures with other horses to avoid kicking injuries.

And the two boarders with fronts always seem to pull their shoes when turned out in the large pastures, so their owners keep them in smaller pens to protect the shoes.


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## jaydee

Our horses and ponies in the UK were shod all the time they were in work because we were out on the roads for at least an hour every day and some had studs in for jumping or showing. If they were going to have a longish holiday between competition or hunting seasons they would get their shoes pulled 
I never had any foot related problems from shoeing long term and we had some of those horses/ponies well into their senior years
We hunted on really muddy ground some weeks (most weeks!!) and I don't think I ever lost more than half a dozen shoes in all the years I was doing that
Since we've been here and done much less roadwork I've had a mix of barefoot, front shoes, shoes all round and back to barefoot depending on how well their feet are coping with the ground.
I'm not a fan of hoof boots


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## Eolith

Tihannah said:


> Her feet look fantastic, so I'm almost hesitant to pull them. Is there any detriment to keeping her shod, besides the cost, of course?


Some people have strong opinions about keeping a horse shod vs barefoot. Based on my own research and what I have seen with my own horses' hooves, I feel that it is more beneficial for them to go without shoes if possible. I encourage you to do some of your own research into hoof care, so that you understand the various functions of each part of the hoof and what it should look like when they are truly healthy.

I'll admit that I have become biased in favor of keeping my horses barefoot. Some people don't agree with me, and that's okay. If you're interested in more barefoot hoof care resources, I can send you some links.


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## Tihannah

Eolith said:


> Some people have strong opinions about keeping a horse shod vs barefoot. Based on my own research and what I have seen with my own horses' hooves, I feel that it is more beneficial for them to go without shoes if possible. I encourage you to do some of your own research into hoof care, so that you understand the various functions of each part of the hoof and what it should look like when they are truly healthy.
> 
> I'll admit that I have become biased in favor of keeping my horses barefoot. Some people don't agree with me, and that's okay. If you're interested in more barefoot hoof care resources, I can send you some links.


I'm always interested in learning as much as I can, so yes, that would be great. Thanks!


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## LoriF

Personally, I think that a horses hooves become more healthy being unshod and having a good barefoot trim done. There may be an ouchy transition when walking on dirt roads that have those little stones scattered about, but mostly they just get stronger.


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## rookie

It all comes down to the horse and where/how/when its being ridden. My horse is barefoot as have all our horses been barefoot. I asked my farrier about it when a bunch of people at the barn were up in arms that my horse didn't wear shoes. After my horse got a stone bruise and a abscess I asked my farrier about shoes. He said with my horses feet unless I was doing endurance the horse does not need shoes; however, if I want them/would feel better if he had them he was willing. I decided not to put shoes on my horse. I am smarter about what footing I let him run on. We ride on trails with a fair number of medium sized rough cut rocks. The folks who have horses with shoes on let them canter and gallop on these rocks. They trust in shoes to protect the horse. I don't run on these rocks because I don't want to risk the bruises. I let my horse fly on the softer sections of the trail. Its all about your horse.


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## trailhorserider

rookie said:


> It all comes down to the horse and where/how/when its being ridden. My horse is barefoot as have all our horses been barefoot. I asked my farrier about it when a bunch of people at the barn were up in arms that my horse didn't wear shoes. After my horse got a stone bruise and a abscess I asked my farrier about shoes. He said with my horses feet unless I was doing endurance the horse does not need shoes; however, if I want them/would feel better if he had them he was willing. I decided not to put shoes on my horse. I am smarter about what footing I let him run on. We ride on trails with a fair number of medium sized rough cut rocks. The folks who have horses with shoes on let them canter and gallop on these rocks. They trust in shoes to protect the horse. I don't run on these rocks because I don't want to risk the bruises. I let my horse fly on the softer sections of the trail. Its all about your horse.


That's what I do too. Keep my horses barefoot and only move out in good footing (sand or dirt). We ride in rocks too, but not going faster than a walk. I have boots if I trailer out with other riders in unknown footing. But when I'm riding on our home trails, we just go barefoot. With my current horses I've only had one stone bruise in 5 years on one horse. The other horse has been fine. My old Mustang got a stone bruise once in 10 years of barefoot riding. 

It's sort of a lifestyle choice with trade-offs. I feel like it's healthier for them to be barefoot. I do my own trimming. I compromise on the speed I ride in rocks. I boot in super bad footing or on group rides so I don't have to stop to boot if the footing gets bad. Other people think shoes are fine, like the convenience, and like to fly over all sorts of footing without worrying about rocks. So there are pluses and minuses either way. 

It just works for me. I like not being a slave to trim cycles and farrier appointments. And feel like their feet can function naturally.


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## Tihannah

The only area of my barn that would require shoes is the driveway area which is covered in gravel and no one rides on that area except to cross over to the other side. Keeping a horse shod on all 4 would be pretty expensive upkeep.

I'm just worried about how long the transition would take and how much time off she would need before I could ride again? I would imagine her feet would be fairly sensitive after being shod for so long?


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## Yogiwick

Honestly a lot of horses really have no issue with shoes being pulled.

Unless there's a problem you should be able to ride her in a nice arena at least as she adjusts.

Talk to your farrier about it.

I always say "barefoot unless shoes are needed, then shoe as needed" lol. I would pull them. Start with the backs and see what happens. You can always put them back on.


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## Quarter

I was raised in the province of friesland were the friesians come from and have always been surrounded by them. Wonderfull, kind and forgiving horses! Good to see you bought her.

I wouldn't be too worried about her being behind the vertical, this is something almost all friesians do as soon as they find something a bit difficult. It is usually easily rectified as long as you keep in mind to keep giving them room to extend their neck don't shorten the reins every time she gives her head, to encourage her to take back the room. 

Good luck and a lot of fun with her!


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## Werecat

I'm so excited for you! I'm in the process of getting my first horse, too and his situation is quite similar to your mare's. My boy's been ridden by primarily children for the past year or so... and only one or two of them knew how to ride properly and took him to shows. So I'm sure I'll be doing the same reconditioning you will be. A sound & happy 16 year old gelding with a young heart with an eager to learn attitude, so I'm remaining positive.

Looking forward to reading more of your journey!  And safe travels!


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## Tihannah

Well, it's done! We worked out the final details and I placed a deposit with the balance pending PPE. I did keep inquiring on other horses, but none were close enough and within my budget for me to travel to see, and I trust the feedback I got from my trainer and other knowledgeable people. I really like this mare, and I think her temperament is a phenomenal match for me.

They were going to haul her down this weekend, but my vet is out of town till Monday for the holiday, so we rescheduled for next weekend (Dec 5th). It's going to be the longest week of my life! Lol. But I am so excited and can't wait to start working with her and my trainer!


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## Golden Horse

Congratulations, I hope she is all that you hope for


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## elle1959

Tihannah said:


> Well, it's done! We worked out the final details and I placed a deposit with the balance pending PPE. I did keep inquiring on other horses, but none were close enough and within my budget for me to travel to see, and I trust the feedback I got from my trainer and other knowledgeable people. I really like this mare, and I think her temperament is a phenomenal match for me.
> 
> They were going to haul her down this weekend, but my vet is out of town till Monday for the holiday, so we rescheduled for next weekend (Dec 5th). It's going to be the longest week of my life! Lol. But I am so excited and can't wait to start working with her and my trainer!


Congratulations! I'm so thrilled for you  This is a great month for buying a horse, IMO


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## DanteDressageNerd

Congratulations!! Glad you found a horse that makes you happy. It will be a good partnership


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## Rainaisabelle

Really happy for you!


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## jaydee

Cogratulations, hope all goes to plan


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## lostastirrup

So awesome you found one you like! excited for updates and to see what you guys get up to in the future if it all works out.


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## LoriF

Tihannah said:


> Well, it's done! We worked out the final details and I placed a deposit with the balance pending PPE. I did keep inquiring on other horses, but none were close enough and within my budget for me to travel to see, and I trust the feedback I got from my trainer and other knowledgeable people. I really like this mare, and I think her temperament is a phenomenal match for me.
> 
> They were going to haul her down this weekend, but my vet is out of town till Monday for the holiday, so we rescheduled for next weekend (Dec 5th). It's going to be the longest week of my life! Lol. But I am so excited and can't wait to start working with her and my trainer!


Awe!! I was hoping to see pics after this weekend. Impatiently waiting with you.


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## SwissMiss

Ohhh, you have to wait another week????

But I am soooo excited for you!!!


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> Awe!! I was hoping to see pics after this weekend. Impatiently waiting with you.


Sidney's owner came to pick her up today, so I spent time at the barn getting things ready for Tessa. I got her feed set up and deep cleaned her stall brushing down old cobwebs and what not. Probably premature, but I don't think she'll have any problems passing the PPE. I typically spend 4-5 days a week at the barn, and now I'm just anxious and don't know what to do with myself, besides online shopping for horse stuff. Good thing is that since I leased, I pretty much have everything I need already. I did have to purchase a new bridle and hopefully it will be here in time. I got her a lovely new Passier bridle I found off eBay for a practically "used" price. I figure if things don't work out for some reason, it will be an easy resell.

Most boarders keep a small dry erase board outside their horse's stall to leave notes and info for barn hands. I updated mine today.  This will be the longest week ever!!!


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## Bondre

Tihannah said:


> I typically spend 4-5 days a week at the barn, and now I'm just anxious and don't know what to do with myself


Come to my barn and ride! My horse could really use four or five rides a week. Shame the distance is prohibitive lol.

Congratulations, this week will seem endless but once Tessa arrives you won't know what spare time is. You're going to feel like a Gran Prix rider on her after clumping around on Sidney.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tihannah

Bondre said:


> Come to my barn and ride! My horse could really use four or five rides a week. Shame the distance is prohibitive lol.
> 
> Congratulations, this week will seem endless but once Tessa arrives you won't know what spare time is. You're going to feel like a Gran Prix rider on her after clumping around on Sidney.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha! I felt that way when I went out to see her! The things that felt so difficult to do on Sidney were so easy with her. Leasing was a great experience, but I didn't like not having the freedom to try new things to help improve Sidney, like feed or supplements. I kinda realized that leasing my trainer's horse would've been the same situation and she would've wanted to keep using her for lessons. I'm stingy with my horses and don't like to share. Lol.

Thank you all for your feedback and advice. I appreciate all, good or bad, and enjoyed weighing the various opinions. In the end, getting to see her in person, her temperament, riding ability, and the way I felt in the saddle really sealed the deal for me. I will probably be in tears when she unloads off that trailer for the first time and can't wait to share it with all of you!


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## SwissMiss

Tihannah said:


> Leasing was a great experience, but I didn't like not having the freedom to try new things... I'm stingy with my horses and don't like to share. Lol.


Exactly my sentiment! I just love the fact that I don't have to share my mare Selfish, I know, but after waiting more than 4 decades to finally get my own I assume I am allowing myself to feel like that :icon_rolleyes:



Tihannah said:


> ... the way I felt in the saddle really sealed the deal for me. I will probably be in tears when she unloads off that trailer for the first time and can't wait to share it with all of you!


This is what it is all about: If the she makes you happy, she is the one


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## Tihannah

*Name thoughts?*

Her registered name is Tessa D. I asked the owner what the "D" was for and she didn't know. Lol. So after some googling, I discovered that the rules in the FPS registry is that the filly must be named by the designated year she was born and the last name of the breeder. 

So thinking of show names, I didn't want to go with just Tessa D. It makes my southern twang come out when I pronounce it, lol. But since I'm from Louisiana, I thought I'd throw some of our French heritage in there and name her... Tessa DeLeon Baptiste. How does that sound? Not Friesian, but I like it.


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## DanteDressageNerd

No I agree about not wanting to "share." I'm not a fan of sharing either. Spent too much time riding other people's horses for them and now I like having something I can make as sharp as I want and not have to fix anybody else's mistakes but my own. So I think you made a good decision for yourself. Something that is yours and entirely yours where you can do what you want without needing permission. You can choose the feed, supplements, who you train with, where you board, etc.

And that's a mouthful but she has a full name now. It's cute.


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## csimkunas6

Woohoo!! Congrats! Ive been a lurker on your posts lately about this mare, but super excited for you! Shes stunning!! Im sure you probably take a lot but we need lots and lots of photos when she comes home! lol


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## Tihannah

csimkunas6 said:


> Woohoo!! Congrats! Ive been a lurker on your posts lately about this mare, but super excited for you! Shes stunning!! Im sure you probably take a lot but we need lots and lots of photos when she comes home! lol


Lol, thank you! I CAN'T WAIT to share her arrival!


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## Tihannah

I absolutely LOVE my vet. He called me today after getting back from vacay about doing the PPE on Saturday. He said his assistants are off on Saturdays cause he usually only does emergency visits, but didn't mind coming out to do the PPE. HOWEVER, because he was alone, he wouldn't be able to do x-rays if needed. He asked if the seller would be open for a trial, that way if he saw something questionable, he could come back out early in the week to x-ray. I told him I doubted it, cause they were hauling from 5 hours away and wanted everything to check out before they left.

He asked if it was okay to just give them a call himself and discuss it with them! He just didn't feel right being limited to a partial examination if there was a possibility something was off. He texted not long later and said they were going to discuss coming Wednesday or Friday instead.

However, when I texted the seller afterwards, she said her husband had to double check his schedule and they may not be able to come until Monday! I'm bummed that I might have to have another weekend without a horse, but I LOVE the fact that my vet wants to make sure I am making a good purchase. He was the same way when I had the TB on 2 week trial. He wouldn't let me buy that horse even when she offered it to me for free! Lol.

On top of that, he's WAAYY easy on the eyes. The ladies at my barn have nicknamed him Dr. McDreamy! Lol. Hopefully, I'll get a solid answer on delivery tomorrow, but the sooner the better!


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## LoriF

Oh man!! More wait? Way cool that your vet is looking out for you like that though. Exactly the reason for having your own PPE done. After all of this, I'm crossing my fingers for you that she checks out fine on everything. I'm sure she will.

I love the new name. How the naming for registering is correct how you said it except you don't necessarily have to have that extra letter. Only if the name is taken already.


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## Tihannah

LoriF said:


> Oh man!! More wait? Way cool that your vet is looking out for you like that though. Exactly the reason for having your own PPE done. After all of this, I'm crossing my fingers for you that she checks out fine on everything. I'm sure she will.
> 
> I love the new name. How the naming for registering is correct how you said it except you don't necessarily have to have that extra letter. Only if the name is taken already.


I'm hoping they can do it Friday. It would be easier for me to take off cause both bosses will be outta town that day and then I'd have the whole weekend to get her acclimated. If she comes on Monday, I will only be able to get out to the barn after work when it's dark already all week! :-(

Keep your fingers crossed for me that the PPE goes smoothly!


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## DuffyDuck

This thread has taken off! I missed all the inbetween bits of seeing her to getting her as I had my wisdom teeth out and spent the last week and a half feeling sorry for myself!

Caught up now, and all I can say is my fingers are crossed for you and I'm so excited!

That's amazing they're bringing her down to you, what nice people! When I went to get Dubai PPE'd I took the trailer with me so I could load him straight up to bring home- I definitely couldn't have waited much longer.

Keeping my eyes on this now.


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## Rainaisabelle

Hope everything goes well! I am rooting for you!


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## rocky pony

I read through the whole thread and was on the edge of my seat wondering if you'd get her! lol
I'm so glad that everything is going well, she is such a pretty girl. I've always dreamt of owning a Friesian one day...they have the sweetest temperaments. I haven't had the pleasure of riding one as of yet, but there was a Friesian breeder at my old barn and her horses were the sweetest dang things. Like big lovable dogs!

I can't wait to see your update when she gets home...fingers crossed for the PPE to go well!


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## Tihannah

*Today is the day!!*

We were finally able to work out all the details with my vet and Tessa should be here around noon! I tossed and turned all night and finally gave up around 6am and got up. lol.

It's supposed to be a beautiful day with temps in the 60s and clear skies. Perfect day for receiving a new horse!  I will likely be at the barn all day with her, but will post video and pics when I get home tonight.

Thank you all for sharing this experience with me. I've waited over 30 years for my first horse, so its all kinda surreal. Now I've just got to figure out what to do with myself till they get here! Lol.


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## ManicMini

I'm so excited for you! On the way to the farm after picking up my horse, I kept looking at the rearview mirror to make sure that there actually was a horse in the trailer. When I unloaded my horse, I was exactly like the 10 year old girls on YouTube when they get surprised with a horse on Christmas. You should have someone film your reaction to your new mare arriving haha!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bondre

Yay!! Have a fun first day with her  Not long to wait now.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## csimkunas6

Woohoo!!! So suoer excited for you still!! I remember when I brought my first horse home 5 years ago, honestly it still seems surreal to me! It still doesnt seem possible that he is mine! I cannot wait for pics!!! Congrats again!!


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## Yogiwick

Bummer he won't let you help with the x-rays yourself, but guess with a strange horse better safe than sorry!

Best of luck!!


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## Rainaisabelle

Whooo!!! Have fun!!


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## DanteDressageNerd

Congratulations!! Post pictures when you can. Super exciting!


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## elle1959

Tihannah said:


> We were finally able to work out all the details with my vet and Tessa should be here around noon! I tossed and turned all night and finally gave up around 6am and got up. lol.
> 
> It's supposed to be a beautiful day with temps in the 60s and clear skies. Perfect day for receiving a new horse!  I will likely be at the barn all day with her, but will post video and pics when I get home tonight.
> 
> Thank you all for sharing this experience with me. I've waited over 30 years for my first horse, so its all kinda surreal. Now I've just got to figure out what to do with myself till they get here! Lol.


So excited for you! Can't wait to see pictures


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## Bondre

You should start a member's journal about Tessa. Then we can all enjoy your new horse with you from the word go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tihannah

*I'm officially a Friesian Mom!*

TODAY.WAS.MADNESS!! Lol. But it went oh so well, and I had my full support group with me through the whole process.

Though they weren't due to arrive until noon, I got to the barn about 10:30 this morning. I just couldn't sit at home anymore and I wanted to make sure everything was ready. My trainer's daughters had a soccer game, so she promised to be there as soon as it was over. My vet promised to be there as soon as he could. The seller would text me letting me know how far out they were, then I would text my vet and trainer updating them. What I didn't know is that they were both texting each other trying to make sure they both made it in time! Lol. I LOVE these two. Thankfully, they both managed to arrive just minutes before the seller and Tessa.

In my mind, I was gonna get someone to video with my phone as I stood there and watched her being unloaded. That didn't happen. Lol. Things were just nuts and happening so fast and even though I THOUGHT I captured it myself, my phone was never actually recording! :neutral:

Anyhow, everyone was introduced and my vet went straight into the examination. There really is no Pass/Fail with PPE's, but Tessa did BEAUTIFULLY. My vet was so impressed, especially because of her age, and especially with the flexion tests. He said her feet were great and she performed the same on gravel as she did on grass. He said if their feet are bad, you will see a difference on gravel, shod or not. He also tested them with one of his tools to show whether or not the walls were thin or tender. She never flinched a bit.

He spent a good hour going over every inch of her, and then asked my trainer to get on her so he could see how she rides. She was definitely rusty, but my trainer put her through several tests and exercises, and she did not disappoint.
She did everything that was asked of her, even if it was difficult. My trainer said we have a lot of work ahead of us, but she has no doubt that we'll do well together and that the potential is there for both us to grow.

The most AMAZING part in all this is that, we pulled her off the trailer in a totally new place and went right to work on her putting her through various things. The barn was CRAZY today, as there were other boarders there, 2 new horses coming in who were CRAZY saddlebreds that had been stalled their entire lives, trucks, trailers, tractors, dogs, cats, you name it - ALL while this was going on, and she stayed cool as a cucumber. Stood almost completely still unless asked to move out for the vet and everything he was doing. You could see her constantly checking things out, but no huffing, startling, or anything. By the end of it, my vet said that he saw nothing at all that warranted x-rays and he thought she was in better condition than probably half the much younger horses at our barn. He said his only concern, of course, was her age, but with any horse young or old, it's a crapshoot and you just never know. But he saw no red flags whatsoever and suggested I just discuss it with my trainer to get her thoughts.

It was truly wonderful having both my trainer and vet there to support me and provide me with their knowledge and experience through this. I would've been lost without them. Soon after, my trainer even got her farrier on the phone and let him know that we needed him to come out and take a look at her feet and see how we need to go about transitioning her to barefoot.

I spent the rest of the afternoon grooming her and hand grazing her, letting her get acclimated to the barn, and feeling really good about my decision. I didn't ride her because my trainer gave her a good workout, but I will head back out there bright and early in the morning to get our first ride in together. I will also try to get some better pics. Today was just too crazy and I felt like I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off all day! Lol. I think I WILL start a journal though. This is going to be an interesting journey! 

Below are a few decent pics I did manage to get today. 

I love her kind eyes...


Silly face!




My trainer riding her.


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## Yogiwick

The most important thing is to have a horse you are happy about.

So thrilled for you!!


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## DanteDressageNerd

That's fabulous!! It sounds like a really positive experience and I'm so glad you feel so good about it. It sounds like you did the right thing and it's good your trainer likes her as well and feels good about it too! It will be great to see how you both develop together. Congratulations on your new horse!! 

She's a very pretty girl. Very kind, expressive eyes. She's lovely


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## elle1959

So glad she is home! Congratulations. She is lovely


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## rocky pony

That all sounds wonderful- and she looks so good!! How exciting, so happy for you both


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## Rainaisabelle

Fanbloodytastic, It's been such a journey for you ! So happy that it's worked out!


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## csimkunas6

Wow! So awesome shes there!! Shes gorgeous as we already knew but wow! She sure is something isnt she? What a good girl being so calm and well behaved with so much commotion going on! I remember when I had my horse transported from WV to NC, and I couldnt get a hold of the transpoter, I was a nervous wreck, and quite bit of a spaz, but still, lol, Congrats again!


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## Tihannah

When I pulled up this morning, she was right there at the gate waiting for me.

 

We had our first ride today and I spent the full day with her bathing, grooming, and hand grazing. I now know first hand why people fall so in love with this breed. She HAS to be the sweetest horse I've ever been around. She bonded to me very quickly and whenever she got nervous about something, she moved closer to me and looked to me for guidance. Even when I released her back out to pasture, she went out with the horses while I stayed and watched. The mares weren't ready to let her in the herd yet and after a few minutes she realized I was still there and came back to me from way across the pasture! I was so tickled. She really is a big love bug.

Before I left this morning, I told my guy that I wished I'd ordered a name plate for her stall. When I got back, he'd made this for me! He found the drawing online, then drew it himself and burn-etched it into the wood. I can't wait to mount it outside her stall! I am truly on cloud 9 right now! :loveshower:


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## tinaev

I've totally smiled throughout the last half of this thread. Welcome home, Tessa! You guys are going to have a lot of fun together.


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## Skyseternalangel

We need more pics of you and your girl!!!


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## Tihannah

I will try to get some soon! But exciting news! I posted on a Friesian FB forum about Tessa, and her former owner AND trainer reached out to me! I've sent them both a message and am waiting to hear back. They both commented that she was a fantastic horse when she was with them and they were happy to see that she was well and still being put to work. I messaged them both and am waiting to hear back. What a small world! Lol. Excited to think I may be able to get more history on her and her training!


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## LoriF

Yay, she's finally there!! So happy that she got through the PPE well. 

She's beautiful, you must be so excited. I remember when my Laela came off the truck, one of the best days of my life. Laela was the same way when she finally got turned loose with everyone else. She went running over to them to say hi and they all turned their butts to her. She then stopped, stood there looking around for a bit and then saw me and came running back. Tessa will make her friends out there but will probably still be right there at the fence waiting for you when you come.

I know you are going to have a blast with her, enjoy.


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## Skyseternalangel

*waits impatiently for pictures*


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## Golden Horse

Missed that she arrived, CONGRATS, I'm so glad she is settling in well.


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## Tihannah

I spoke to the previous owner yesterday on the phone. She was very sweet and said Tessa was their first friesian and purchased for her 20 yr old daughter. She said everyone, including their trainer, was in love with Tessa and her incredible temperament. She also reiterated what the seller said about Tessa in that she never had a health issue in all the years she owned her. Said she never had so much as a cold! Not sure why they sold her, but she said they now have 15 Friesians! Lol.


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## Tihannah

*Finally Got Pics!*

Today was a beautiful day and lots of people at the barn to help take pics. It would be really great if I could somehow move this thread to the Journal Section. I feel like this is all an important piece of our beginning together. And then of course, I wouldn't have to re-write our beginning! Lol. Admin??


All of these are from today. 







My trainer hated this pose cause she was standing like a TWH, but I thought she still looked purdy!


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## egrogan

You look great together! Congrats again.

I love the crazy feathers peeking out from under her leg wraps. She looks like a Muppet wearing slippers 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tihannah

Not sure how I forgot this one, but it's my favorite!


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## trailhorserider

I am so happy for you both! You look so happy together! :loveshower:


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## DraftyAiresMum

You guys are so cute together!! :loveshower:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanteDressageNerd

Those are some cute photos! You both look so happy together! Can't wait to hear more on the progress.


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## NavigatorsMom

So happy seeing all of these pictures! Can't wait to see what you accomplish together!


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## Skyseternalangel

Thanks for sharing photos


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## lostastirrup

congrats on your new horse! Hope you guys go really far together!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bondre

Gorgeous photos  Your red T-shirt compliments her sleek black and the faded winter grass perfectly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rainaisabelle

You both look very beautiful! 
I love your tack!!


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## Tihannah

*2 Week Follow Up.*

I just wanted to close this thread out with a 2 week follow up on Tessa. I've started a journal, but I thought it would be good to post a final to this one.

Tessa has turned out to be as close to my dream horse as I could possibly get within my measly budget. Why anyone would sell this horse is beyond me, but I am glad that she eventually ended up with me. I posted in a Friesian forum yesterday about Tessa's remarkable temperament and how much I loved her and this breed for it. Her former trainer, who works with a lot of Friesians, told me it wasn't fair to credit the entire breed for her actions and that "she is truly a remarkable mind".

This horse and I have bonded SO quickly in only 2 weeks time. Today we walked from the dressage arena all the way back to the barn and I never had to touch her reins. She stayed right at my shoulder the entire way. When we reached the barn, there were 3 other horses there being tacked up, so we had to wait our turn. I looked at her and said, "Stay here, Tess, I'm gonna get your halter." She stayed right there in the barn entry way and watched me walk off. She never even tried to graze, just kept her eyes on me the entire time until I came back to her. One of the boarder's mouths fell open and said, "You must really trust your horse!" I replied with, "She's just a really good girl."

Thus far, our obstacles have been trying to undo her previous saddleseat training (the high head carriage) and the non-educated riding from the little girl (heavy hands). But she is a very willing participant and picks up on things very quickly. We have already tackled a couple things that my trainer thought would take us weeks to a month to improve. Today when we were riding, my trainer shouted across the way, "You guys look SO GOOD!!! Well done!"  She truly gives me her all every time we ride.

So yea, in the end, we will probably never be top show competitors, and I'm absolutely fine with that. My trainer thinks we will have no trouble reaching 1st level in a short amount of time. Her age always worries me in the back of my mind, but then I tell myself that I just need to relax and enjoy this remarkable horse and we have many years ahead of us still. I could not be happier with my choice as she is everything I always imagined as MY horse. Thank you for sharing the ride with me.


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## tinaev

Thanks for posting the final update to this post. I will have to go find the thread where you have your journal because I just love reading about the two of you.

I understand worrying about age, Rio's age is always in the back of my mind and I constantly feel like the clock is ticking away our time together. That we'll never get to do all of the things I wanted to. It sucks and I would like to discourage you from turning into me. I'm sure you'll have plenty of good years together and if anything use her age to remind you to make the most of every minute.


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## Rascaholic

CrossCountry said:


> I'm honestly not sure where you are located but I ran across this girl, and I immediately thought of this thread!
> 
> Princess Rummy: 2005, Draft/Cross, Mare at Warmblood-Sales.com


I LOVE Her face!! Lord, if I had room for 2....


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