# Head Twisting - lengthy



## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

IF it was only occurring under saddle I would think it was a learned behavior, perhaps to avoid the bit. Since you've noticed it when he's in his stall, I would be concerned that it is a nerve-based condition. What does your Vet think?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Have you had someone look at his muscles or for pinched nerves?


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

Hmmm. Pinched nerve. That's a thought! I assumed our Chiro would have picked up on anything of that nature, but perhaps that more for the vet to examine? 

We haven't fully discussed it with the vet as of yet. It first appeared as an occasional naughty behavior, then we wondered if something else was up. As it became more and more prevalent, we have exhausted all our efforts and ideas experiment with bits, resolving the hives, getting the back adhesion fixed up etc. It's gotten worse in the last few weeks (perhaps with the cold making him a bit more fresh?), but a vet call is most definitely in order at this point.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

This is really interesting. I have a mare that does exactly the same thing. She started doing it a few years back now. I have no idea what it means. When it first started I had her checked for ear mites/ear infection and had her neurologically checked. I didn't put a ton of effort into it because she only does it under saddle and because she has a previous tendon injury we don't use her but a few times a year for pony rides. I wrote it off as her being a witch and evading the bit. (She is western pleasure trained and has a sneaky sneaky side to her). She's also cold backed. Is your horse cold backed?


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

I'll be interested to hear tomorrow if he does do it whilst being free lunged. Have you ever seen him do it whilst turned out with others?


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## sisbarbo (Dec 14, 2011)

I just posted a thread "help ... my horse has been lame for 4 months" this is what my horse started doing after his injury. 
He has had a shoulder injury after pulling back. He only exhibits lameness at a trot going in a counter clockwise direction (but jets his chin out to the right) 
While I'm riding him, he starts out okay, then after a short time he will "jet his chin out" . He does it instantly on the lunge line as it is hard for him to turn with the injured shoulder on the inside of the circle. Sometimes he would even refuse to go that direction ( I stopped lunging him so as not to stress his shoulder) I haven't noticed him doing it in a non work related situation. 

It is always my indication that he has had enough. I always push him just a little further just because he is sooooo smart that it wouldn't take much for him to figure out that he could stop after... I call it "jetting his chin out". 
With my guy this behavior started after his injury so I knew it was a pain issue...this guy doesn't look like he's too sore at the beginning of your session...LOL! 
Do you know if he's had any lameness issues in the past...maybe its a learned behavior from a previous injury.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

sisbarbo that's very interesting. Mine started her issue AFTER her injury as well. She severed the tendons in her back leg. So is it balance related or pain related?


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## sisbarbo (Dec 14, 2011)

That's a great question farm pony!

My vet/ chiropractor didn't say anything about it one way or the other, but she did encourage me to ride him (Clark) and strengthen him. I did that for the past 3 months. I didn't see much improvement so I've been resting him until the weather improves.

Clark is extremely good at communicating himself (good, bad or indifferent...it's pretty comical actually) 

After what I've experienced I would tend to believe it is more pain related, because.... for example.... we had a beautiful day last week so I took him out for a short trail ride to see if there was any improvement after 2 weeks of resting him. He started out feeling pretty good...no chin jetting... but on the way back....he started to "jet out" even at a walk...not constant, but I could tell that he was getting sore and had enough, and was glad that I hadn't gone any further.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Head tilting/twisting is also frequently caused by rider crookedness. If your mum is riding with one hand slightly higher or differently rotated than the other, maybe she has more weight on one side of the saddle, maybe she is gripping a little more with one knee.... many many MANY rider issues can cause head tilt.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Mine will do it on the lunge or inhand sometimes too...


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## DejaVu (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm interested to see more replies as well...

I used to school a green hunter pony that did this at all gaits, throughout the entire ride, as well as on the lunge line. We tried different theories and tried different things. We finally came down to him simply evading the bit in his own way.

I put him in a smooth copper roller-It stopped.

Once he went in that bit, he started softly mouthing the bit more and actually settling quietly in the bridle, which also led to more basic collection. But he quit the head twisting.. He'd do it once or twice during warm up, but mainly out of habit, or just testing out the bit. After that, he was quiet in the head the whole ride.

Interested to see some more replies. Finding a bit, that that pony found comfortable in his mouth worked for him, but I wonder for others if this is injury related, or bit evasion, or what. We went through quite a trial figuring out what the twisting was about. It's certainly annoying while you're riding, and they never fully focus on you, when they're so worried about their head.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I would have the horse thoroughly vetted by an equine specialist with strong credentials before going any further. Bring a video of the behavior to show to the veterinarian at the appointment.


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks everyone for your replies!! As much of a concern it is, I have to admit, it’s a relief to hear he’s not the only horse in the world to do this – and also very interesting that some of you have seen this type of behavior after an injury! Based on your responses, it sure leads you to believe it’s a pain and/or balance issue...


Mom and I discussed getting our vet out to see him shortly. In the meantime, we are planning on trying to get some good video footage of over the next couple of evenings (dang work gets in the way of precious riding time!), and as mentioned free-lounge him to see if he does it without a rider on his back. 



 I wish it was just a bit issue. We literally have tried every bit under the sun – copper roller, jointed, un-jointed, double jointed, rubber, happy mouth, low and high ports, so on and so forth. Never any difference.


We also have considered the ‘crookedness’ aspect, but he still twists with different riders on his back but it’s great suggestion!


Anyway, I will post an update in the next day or so...with my luck he won’t do it at all tonight – typical! Ha-ha
Cheers!


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## sisbarbo (Dec 14, 2011)

I'll be interested in seeing the free lunge videos....does he do it when you lunge without a bit? 

have you tried a chiropractor yet? When I had Clark's teeth floated, I had my vet watch him on a lunge line he did the head twist and the vet said...he's lame .... he needs a chiropractor.... I'm still battling his lameness which goes beyond just head twisting, but it's worth a shot.

good luck!


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## kpptt2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

Update! Hi everyone, sorry it’s been so long getting back to you. We have had some progress in the last week with _some_ answers to the ‘head twisting’!
We free-lunged him in the arena – no head twist. Watched him playing during paddock turn-out – no head twist. Also have not witnessed him doing it in his stall since the one occurrence, which I am starting to believe was a fluke.
He was examined by the vet with no significant findings – teeth are perfect, gums are good, no sore muscles, stifles are great, etc, etc. The vet himself was a bit stumped and suggested we start playing with different tack to see if that’s the problem – try bitless, try different saddle etc. We felt like we were back to square one. Until, we had another idea…
On Sunday, we shipped out and had a well established, long-time pro ride him. EVASION! He was downright evading moving forward off her leg, so he would head twist. When she got firmer with him and ignored his head twist, he got even more ticked off, stopped head twisting then started to swap out in hopes he could evade in another way. She was positive he is downright being naughty. I very much trust and admire this pro. She can watch a horse that she has never seen before, flat around for all of five minutes and peg every under saddle issue it has. She really is amazing in what she does and is also a wonderful coach. We have lots of homework over the next 30 days, at which time she will re-assess him. 
At this point in the game, we are going to start to treat it as a training issue. Of course, we are not completely ruling out a soreness that would be causing him to evade, and will be keeping our eyes peeled for any signs of discomfort or pain. On a side note, he does have a Chiropractic appointment next week, so we will see how that goes as well. 
Anyway, wish us luck! And thank you again for everyone’s responses, they are very much appreciated! I will post another update should the Chiro find anything. Cheers!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Beauty did it a few times in her stall but not often. I think I concur with the evasion thoughts. My Beauty is a BEYOTCH. I if anyone pushed an issue with her she'd toss a rider in a heart beat.


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## bogani (Mar 15, 2012)

I see some time has gone by since you started using the trainer who identified the head-twisting problem as an evasion technique. I'm curious as to whether pushing your horse through his head-twisting/evasion behavior has helped? I have a horse who does exactly the same thing (also like the one in the video without the rodeo bucks!), and it makes riding so miserable I'd rather just walk him out--when he doesn't do it--at least not until you ask him to take the bit. I haven't yet solved the problem, so I'm anxious to hear how you/your mother are doing.


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