# German rider and her training



## Merel

This is a German grand prix rider. She had a good reputation until last year.. 
A hidden camera followed her training with her horse. 
Again she was caught, after she was accused and was not allowed to interact with horses for 2 years.. What a move to another country can dou for you.

This can be seen as shocking.
News, Service, Wetter, Videos - Nachrichten bei RTLaktuell.de



I would just love to grab her whip and smack her for a very long time.
I saw the other video and that was even more schocking. Wounds every where.. Including the mouth and legs.


----------



## blossom856

OMG, why, why, why?

She's lucky all that horse does is kick and buck. He's a saint.


----------



## kickshaw

she needs more than a smack with the whip...


----------



## Gingerrrrr

she needs to have her head tied to her chest and to crawl around on the floor so we can whip her like what she did to the horses...


----------



## Merel

Apparently this woman rode one of her horses to death. The horse was sick and she made him do passage and piaffe for hours.

She goes to court in November. I hope the process will speed up (Who knows what she will do to her horses in that time) because the Danish animal protection reacted furious.
A source told me that all the horses in the stables are scared to death from that woman (Who wouldn't) But what I find even more disturbing is the man who is near them isn't doing anything to stop her. Nor the people at the side who even ask her why she mistreats her horses. I would run over to her and show no mercy.


----------



## Kiki

The mongrel!!! What the hell did she think she was going to acheive??:evil::evil:


----------



## my2geldings

Poor animal. People like are mentally very unstable to have so much anger and frustration towards an animal like that. I would be very concerned with the safety and well being of other human beings around her. She is very fortunate to have gotten only that type of punishment for her actions.


----------



## Merel

Small improvement.
4 horses the woman had in training were picked up by their owners!


----------



## Zab

Rollkur is quite normal with the top riders nowadays, and behind closed doors; that kind of training is too.

It works for the competition; the horse learns that no matter how unbalanced he is, he keeps his head right in the frame. They're asking it to dance with a police grip, practically. That's why it's rarely seen any good selfcarriage in the dressage shows at high levels anymore. The whipping makes him lift his hindlegs..but not carrying with them. And the treatment overall just tell him to do whatever he's told - or it will hurt more.
But it works. Aky who won the olympics this year rides in rollkur as well, and I've seen pictures (old, but still) or her training horses similiar to this.

And these are supposed to be our role models?
(a big reason I refuse to ride dressage - if people can't see that for what it is, they have too little knowledge to teach me.)


----------



## Merel

Rollkur doesn't damage anything unless you use it the right way. Anky tells people not to use Rollkur without someone experienced. Also I don't see her using the whip where it's gets to the point when it's unacceptable. Her horses look good and I think she really loves them. Though I absolutely not agree on her methode, but it an only improve a horse when it's used in the proper way. And most of the time it's not.


----------



## Zab

And when ever is it right to pull the horses nose in that far? What do you achieve other than that the horse learns to not raise the head?
Tere's so much wrong with that method I can't even be bothered to start arguing about it, but mainly; it defeats all that dressage once stood for; strength, balance and harmony.
Rollkured horses are on their shoulders; they don't work through their back because frankly, they're trained to disconnect ther headset from thir backs etc etc

Besides, I can't understand how anyone can win when their horse can't stand still.


----------



## Merel

I don't agree with rollkur, I believe it's against the horses nature and shouldn't be used. But when you actually study it and use it properly (Keyword!) it improves a whole lot of things. 

And why she can score so high? Haven't you seen the whole kur? Salinero's passage and piaffe is so strong, he is the master. He gets the highest marks there. Basically that horse is an allround horse that has everything to be the best. That he can't stand still is just a small thing and when you look at the marks she gets (8,9,10) and the 4 she gets for the halt, then the halt only makes a small difference.

You can ask yourself why Isabell still managed to be placed 2th while her horses bucked and just simply came into resistment. And Isabell is in my opinio still a better horsewoman. She can ride bare back and bridleless.


----------



## Zab

The entire system is wrong and corrupted. That'salso what makes it pointless to argue about it, people refuse to see with their eyes.

A judge that judges poorly ''looses'' the rider; and when the topriders refuse to show for that judge, he won't be offered to judge anymore.

Salineros passage and piaffe are not strong. It's manipulated and even he is on his shoulders. And you'd think the worlds best rider and the worlds best horse should be able to stand still.

Yes, and I come to the same conclusion as for why Anky won.

Dressage is not what it's supposed to be anymore. It started failing half a century ago.

But I'm not going to keep arguing. In this world competition results is everything, and I can't prove anything that people refuse to see even when it's before their eyes.
But try to actually compare what's said in the TR (or is it FEI there? the rules?) with what you see; poll as highest point, nose on or before the vertical are the most obvious things. If you read it closely and compare it, I'm sure you'l fid more things that doesn't fit.

If you get to read the book ''tug of war'', it has some good things written in it.

But that's my last word.


----------



## XxXequinegrlXxX

all i have to say is that i am absolutley disgusted.:evil::-|:-x:evil:


----------



## Merel

I believe you never ridden on big presure?
I guess not 'cause I never heard of you.
The horse is hot, wanting to move. When you force the horse in doing something, making the horse mad in a crucial moment it is devistating for the ride. It's not Salinero's best thing, nor for a lot of horses. 
I think the judges have a better eye on knowing what's proper for the riding (Is the body used well etc) than we do. And I think that Anky knows better than us too.


----------



## XxXequinegrlXxX

Um i said i was disgusted .... i'm sorry i don't like seeing horses being whiped around like that.....


----------



## Zab

I think Merel is talkig to me.

So you have heard of everyone who has ever ridden under preassure? 
Standing still is very basic in riding. The elite should be able to do it even under pressure.
''force'' and ''harmony and balace'' doesn't really go hand in hand, do they?
Obviously not.

I have a few books about rollkur, and I'll fresh up my anatomy knowledge, and then I'll post a thread about it here, explaining some stuff and showing some stuff.
(afterall..I AM educated (in a school) in horse keeping, horse massage, some in farrying, horse anatomy and so on.. it should count for something.. even tho I'm not a good rider it doesn't mean I'm blind or stupid.)


----------



## XxXequinegrlXxX

Zab said:


> I think Merel is talkig to me.
> 
> So you have heard of everyone who has ever ridden under preassure?
> Standing still is very basic in riding. The elite should be able to do it even under pressure.
> ''force'' and ''harmony and balace'' doesn't really go hand in hand, do they?
> Obviously not.
> 
> I have a few books about rollkur, and I'll fresh up my anatomy knowledge, and then I'll post a thread about it here, explaining some stuff and showing some stuff.
> (afterall..I AM educated (in a school) in horse keeping, horse massage, some in farrying, horse anatomy and so on.. it should count for something.. even tho I'm not a good rider it doesn't mean I'm blind or stupid.)


ohh ok and man i agree everything you are saying you have already took the words out of my mouth so i guess i have nothing else to say either.


----------



## Kiki

Hence the fact I only believe in natrual dressage


----------



## Merel

Zab said:


> I think Merel is talkig to me.
> 
> So you have heard of everyone who has ever ridden under preassure?
> Standing still is very basic in riding. The elite should be able to do it even under pressure.
> ''force'' and ''harmony and balace'' doesn't really go hand in hand, do they?
> Obviously not.
> 
> I have a few books about rollkur, and I'll fresh up my anatomy knowledge, and then I'll post a thread about it here, explaining some stuff and showing some stuff.
> (afterall..I AM educated (in a school) in horse keeping, horse massage, some in farrying, horse anatomy and so on.. it should count for something.. even tho I'm not a good rider it doesn't mean I'm blind or stupid.)


Well, go on! Though it's a little bit more difficult to understand in English.
I absolutely agree on you that standing still is a basic thing that should be known by every horse on every level. But when i'm reading on wat Anky or Imke or any rider on GP level, have to say about it ,for that matter than i'm thinking:'Well, maybe it's harder for a horse on that level because of all the tension etc.'
AND when your scores are that good as Anky gets them (May not be diserved, rumor has it that Sjef is quite a manipulator in his own way) standing still is just a very small thing that barerly even makes a difference on the score. Anky even forget to greet when she was done, she still scored 81% But then there is it that the level of top dressage these days is much higher than it was 30 years ago while the judgingsystem is still the same, you could see that with a few competitors. But now i'm ranting off. I've read Anky's explanation on rollkur or 'LDR' which is more kind to put it. You get pulled to two sides. 
But again, I absolutely do not agree on LDR and I would never try doing it to my horse. I just don't really know what to believe anymore. Everyone has their opinio and their facts on it.


----------



## Spyder

In case anyone is interested Ms Wels...the rider singled out in the original post has NOTHING to do with rollkur. There is a thread here on this subject in debates I believe.

As far as Ms. C Wels and her abuse of that horse then here is a thread on this.

German ex-toprider caught (again) on hidden camera (*warning* horse abuse) - Chronicle Forums


----------



## Merel

All of her horses have been picked up.
Her own horses were picked up by animal protection and they guided the Horses to the German boundry so it's now for sure that the horses are really out of the hands of Christine.


----------



## Kiara

You know what one of the sadest things in that is? If the horse had actually defendet itself and hurt her, I'm pretty sure they would have put it down, because it was an "aggressive" horse...
I just don't understand how people can do that. Yet, they always amaze me...Sometimes in really bad ways...


----------



## Merel

My thought exactly. If the horse would kick the woman (And that would be totally right) the horse would probably be on his way to Italy


----------



## Painted Ride

too bad he didnt flip over with her on him and crush her to death..like she was crushing that poor guy. so beautiful so sad... why oh why does this continue?:sad::evil:


----------



## ohmyitschelle

Just read all about this on Ultimate Dressage, my god it is so incredibly disgusting what she does to this horse.
What is worse is that people allow this to happen... unfortunately using horse abuse in 'training' to reach the top levels is getting common in some areas, most of it is happening in our own backyard and we have no idea! All people want is to win, even if it means by beating the horse into submission 
x


----------



## Dapy

I allready saw this vid, I think its cruell and I wish someone would stop her.


----------



## **Pleasure**

I was so socked as I saw that video
I knew it before ( as y'all know I´m from germany )
Somebody I know knows this woman
I think it´s absolutly terrible
For me it´s embaressing to say I´m from germany at this point :evil:


----------



## smrobs

O,O that is just sick. That is one of the reason's why I don't like dressage. I understand that it is not always done that way but I just never cared for how the horses look. They do look off balance and just uncomfortable. What is sad is that nearly every discipline has people who use this method of "training". Every discipline in the show circuit started as a way to show the superiority of the horse's natural ability. When you have to start using whips and mechanisms to accentuate the movement, then it is no longer natural. There are a lot of disciplines that I don't like just for that reason, because it is no longer following its original purpose. :"(


----------



## SallyBaby

SO sad....... my trainer always tells me: 2%rein 98% seat and leg. That poor horse. She's lucky it didnt totally explode. I noticed that he was bucking constantly! so sad.....


----------



## SallyBaby

I still like the concept of dressage, but the training and requirements could be a bit less for olympic level.


----------



## Spastic_Dove

You know, for a long time I really really didn't like Dressage. Almost all the big shot riders are really terrible IMO and local Dressage riders treat their horses like some sort of machine. 

I realize it is not the sport of Dressage though. Now, I am really reading into it and am probably going to take my first Dressage lesson this weekend. I just think its a shame that abusive riders reach such high levels. Not only in Dressage but in WP, Halter, everything. I don't think they should be rewarded for such poor behavior...


----------



## wanderlust

Not that there any excuses at all for what she was doing, but does anyone know what she was saying? I'm curious.


----------



## kchfuller

that is so out of control! i would like to know what they are saying too ... it's people like her who should be locked up ... why can you treat and animal like this and only get a few years or a slap on the wrist? not ok!


----------



## eclecticstar

There are no words to describe who angry that makes me or what I would like to do to that trainer!


----------

