# How Old????



## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

i start long reining them as yearlings you can start a lot earlier to drive then you can ride with them not carrying weight


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

break them as yearlings. its easier because they are small enough so that they dont overpower you if they throw a fit. and at their age they are like a little sponge and learn so fast.

if you need any pointers with breaking a young one, PM me. i can probably help!


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

Can i drive them as yearlings or just long rein?


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

light driving is fine. as long as they arent doing heavy work. my STB yearling is driving about 1-2 miles a day right now that shes broke.


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

oh right
thanks


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

My trainer won't even take one in for driving training until it's 2.5 years old, and I agree with her.


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## CowGirlUp9448 (Nov 23, 2007)

Yeah my babies won't go into training until they are at the Earliest 2 years. I prefer to wait til they are 3 years though. I have been doing a little ground driving now though.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

we break everything as yearlings, and start light driving. at 2 they start training down and if they are fast and strong enough they start racing. if not, they start racing at 3 or sometimes 4 instead. 

i have mixed emotions about racing at 2. but as far as just light work, i see no problem as starting them as yearlings and getting them broke.

also remember these are full sized horses, not minis. so they are a lot larger as yearlings than the minis are. and especially at 2 and 3 they are a lot larger.


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## CowGirlUp9448 (Nov 23, 2007)

I was refering to how we do the drafts as well not just my minis.  I believe in doing the ground driving but not actually letting them pull anything as yearlings. They are still babies, we wouldn't have actual human babies doing anything at a year old  That's all I mean. And depending on the breed also.. Some breeds mature faster then others. But if you still a horse to soon (as far as work goes) the sooner they will have issues as an older horse (like arthatis(sp) in some cases not all).


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

I think that 2 1/2 is a good age to start training. But that means i would have to break them to drive really quickly or them might get confused with their riding training, when they become 3 year olds. Im confused now????


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## CowGirlUp9448 (Nov 23, 2007)

I don't personally know ( I, myself don't do this) but when my brother breaks (he's a horse trainer) the Drafts and riding horses, he starts them at 2 1/2 or 3 years old (depending on growth) to ride and drive. He does both the training at the same time. (well ride one day drive the next or something around that) and he hasn't had any problems training them to do both


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

i,d agree with almagron,light driving wont do them any harm,its not saying pull a dray or anything but theres no weight in the light exercise carts i always keep haevy cobs and always start them at yearlings


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

Shall i start them off with wooden or steel traps? With or without people? And shall i put items in the cart??


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

the type of shafts wo,nt matter,but until your horse gets used to the cart wrap rags around the ends so if he turns sharp they wont dig his side make sure the shafts are fairly snug against her so if she kicks she is less likely to put her leg over,wen i put a horse in a cart the 1st day i tie it up allday attached to the cart and during the course of the day lift rock and push the cart against him so he gets used to the feel of everything especially the breeching hope this helps


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

oh just thought tie your traces tugs and your breeching straps to the cart with something like old baling twine and keep a knife handy if you get a serious situation you can cut them out very quickly


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

ok then thank you!!


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

Can i show the foals once there broken or do they have to be older? If so how old?


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

And also do they have to go to specific shows?


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

Well they'd have to go to a show with driving classes... The shows I go to, a horse has to be at least 3 years old to show in driving.


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

here in uk they arent ussually broken to pull a cart until they are at least 2 and a half. a yearling is still growing pyshically and emotionally. in my opinion to break a horse to pull at cart as a yearling, is just asking for future physical and emotional issues. you can do all of the long reining and getting them used to harness and commands tho, while you wait for them to grow older, so none of the time spent is wasted- you get a happier and more well balanced horse at the end of it, in return for all of the time you have invested.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

there is no reason you cant break one. why do you assume a horse is going to be more "balanced and happy" just because you didnt hook them to a cart?


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

but i notice you didnt comment on future physical issues, because they have started pulling too soon. and i too am talking about lightwieght exercise cart, not heavy wagons. it really seems too young to be pulling anything in my opinion. they are babies at one- not physically or mentally mature.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

I agree with you, Lillie.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

I know a little bit about driving, so I'm no expert but I believe ground-driving as a yearling is fine. It teachs them the commands and it just establishes the basics. Depending on the horse itself, _you could do light work.* But remember that it is entirely up to the temperament, build, strength and mental capacity of that horse.*_
Its always good to have a trainer help you break in for the first time, just so they can give you a hand if they feel you need it.


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

ground driving is fine, but not pulling the cart. chey aut; thanks, just looked at your site; your horses and ponies are a credit to you, lovely animals and setup.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Getting a feel for the cart I find is fine. Just hooking it up and letting them get used to it. It doesn't mean drive them til they get tired. And if the horse wants to have a little walk, why not? Obviously you're trying to prep them for proper driving, so a little walk wouldn't hurt them.
And I'm sure the OP would have a trainer help her.


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

sorry, while im all for getting them used to things, i dont agree with this because the weight of the cart is too much for them, and if you then put in the weight of one human as well, it is considerable for an animal this young to pull, plus they are, at that age, still mentally immature, and by doing this too young you are giving them too much responsibility. so im afraid we will have to agree to differ on this point.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

lillie said:


> ground driving is fine, but not pulling the cart. chey aut; thanks, just looked at your site; your horses and ponies are a credit to you, lovely animals and setup.


Aw, thank you very much


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

Wow I have never seen so much bad advice on one thread in such a long time. 

I am not a driving expert for sure but have helped and watched some of the best in the small equine industry. I have also trained a couple myself

Yearlings are NOT mentally and physically ready to drive. Driving is a dangerous sport and do you really want to put your life in the hooves of a young not yet mentally mature horse??? And what about the horses physcial state?? Yearlings are still growing at a rapid rate and really do not need the pressure of being hooked to a cart. 

Just because you CAN do something doesnt mean you SHOULD. 

This excuse of doing it young because you can "overpower" them is just insane!

First of all a driving horse should have all the background already done. Such as great ground manners, standing tied, knowing voice commands, knowing whoa means stop this instant etc. That you can do with a yearling. 

By the time the horse is 2.5 or 3 they should be very easy to finish training to drive because the groundwork was laid while they were young. So there should not be a need to "overpower" them. 

And one thing I know for sure is really you will never "overpower" a horse because ultimately even a miniature is stronger then a human. If you have to resort to "overpowering" them you are definitely doing something wrong

Sophie I hope you will think about this some more and give your horse the time to grow up. Always think long term not short term. Lay a good foundation and you will have no problem when the horse is mature and ready to drive


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## Grublet (Nov 18, 2009)

sophie123 said:


> I have recently got two fillies, they have come of the new forest and have never been handled. So i plan to break them to drive before i ride them. I have brocken my shetland to drive but that was alot easier than i expected. How hard is it to break young horses to drive? But how old do they have to be before i begin their education in driving?


According to the dutch Shetlander website, they can begin driving at 2. I have now got a 6 month old shetlander and would like to train him to drive a cart when he's about 2. Any tips would be really helpful.
Had a 3 year old arabian when I was in my teens and I broke him in for riding/jumping, but he was already being lunged etc when I bought him. Co my Shetlander I see as more of a challenge as he's never done anything. Would like to begin lunging him, as taking him out with the dog isn't giving him enough exercise. He runs in the field if its dry, but he seems to have so much built up energy. Tried it twice but all he does is follow me:? (he loves cuddles).Will try using the whip at the shoulder, but as I said, ANY tips would be great.


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

well grublet this is a very emotive subject on the forum but i dont,see any problem in starting them as a yearling and light driving them especially if your driving on roads/highways let them see and come across everything whilst they are young


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

well jimmy we both agree to disagree on that point (lol) i wouldnt be driving them behind a cart until at least 2 1/2. but the point i want to make here is that the shetland is considered more strong per body mass than a horse or a pony, but even so grublet, i think waiting the extra 6 monthes is not a lot for a growing pony to ask.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

jimmy said:


> well grublet this is a very emotive subject on the forum but i dont,see any problem in starting them as a yearling and light driving them especially if your driving on roads/highways let them see and come across everything whilst they are young


how come when i say anything like this i get attacked like im some kind of horrible monster, but you say it and its "oh well we disagree hahaha" ????


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## FjordFan (Oct 3, 2008)

I am shocked that anyone would even consider driving a yearling, they are not physically nor mentally ready at that age and there is nothing you can do with a horse with a yearling that can't wait a few years i.e. teaching it to go in traffic etc.

If people are in such a rush to drive/ride young horses why don't you buy a mature horse so you can do this.


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

well fjord fan its like i say you do what you want with yours and i,l do what i want with mine lets not get into all this again


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

AlmagroN said:


> how come when i say anything like this i get attacked like im some kind of horrible monster, but you say it and its "oh well we disagree hahaha" ????


 my natural charm must ooze of the page lol


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## FjordFan (Oct 3, 2008)

Well Jimmy its like _I_ say, I feel sorry for any yearling that ends up with an owner who thinks it acceptable for it to be broken to drive. And as an adult on a public forum I can voice my opinion without being told lets not get into this when it was part of the question being asked by the OP.


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

Jimmy... its official.. you and i are unacceptable owners....


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## bubblegum (Oct 6, 2009)

Sophie123, i will be waiting till 2 or 2 and a half before i hitch them onto a cart of any sort but i plan to have all the ground work, voice commands, and tack on them before then, depending on how they are.


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

FjordFan said:


> Well Jimmy its like _I_ say, I feel sorry for any yearling that ends up with an owner who thinks it acceptable for it to be broken to drive. And as an adult on a public forum I can voice my opinion without being told lets not get into this when it was part of the question being asked by the OP.


 of course you are fjord and i,m not saying your wrong but i don,t think i am wrong either i dont want to really get in to it because look at the fallout the last similar thread caused,i gave advice in favour of whats worked for me you give advice on what works for you and then its up to the op what they do is,ent that fair enough


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## masatisan (Jan 12, 2009)

My BO will start his Canadiens by long lining them with a surcingle. He usually starts at around two two-and-a-half years. He ground-drives them into the ground so they are perfect with steering. He takes them on the road, the trails, into the ring. When they're experts with that he'll put them in a harness. 

When they're around three he'll hook them up to a stoneboat increasing the weight over time. Then he starts on a small bike or sled, depending on the season, by then the horse is a pretty dang reliable and well turned driving horse. His methods take a wile, but they are very thorough.


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

i'm sure everyone knows by now that i dont approve of breaking them to drive before 2 & 1/2. almagon ; the reason jimmy got the reply he got from me is 1) in that post he is stating that that is the way he does it, he is not at this time advising everyone to do it. 2) he has always stated how he does it, but he does not then continue by telling everyone else that they know nothing, because they have not won a harness race. he simply states that he sees nothing wrong with it, which he knows i dont agree with. 3) the facts and risks of breaking at so young an age have been thoroughly discussed, any one can read them, some of us are weary of repeating ourself. 4) jimmy is not going to admit to changing his methods but he does come across as friendly, having an open mind, and an original sense of humour, and does not come across as aggressive and arrogant. need i say more?


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

lillie said:


> i'm sure everyone knows by now that i dont approve of breaking them to drive before 2 & 1/2. almagon ; the reason jimmy got the reply he got from me is 1) in that post he is stating that that is the way he does it, he is not at this time advising everyone to do it. 2) he has always stated how he does it, but he does not then continue by telling everyone else that they know nothing, because they have not won a harness race. he simply states that he sees nothing wrong with it, which he knows i dont agree with. 3) the facts and risks of breaking at so young an age have been thoroughly discussed, any one can read them, some of us are weary of repeating ourself. 4) jimmy is not going to admit to changing his methods but he does come across as friendly, having an open mind, and an original sense of humour, and does not come across as aggressive and arrogant. need i say more?


when did i ever tell anyone they know nothing? i did. so you can stop with that. just because i didnt agree with you doesnt mean i was saying you know nothing. i DID explain WHY we break as yearlings- because they start a racing career at 2. if i come across aggressive and arrogant, its because of the way people have said things to me. they werent very nice to begin with, so i feel no need to be so nice back. and also, i wanted to add i found your post that YOU said I posted that I hook up a horse all day long and leave them there, which i NEVER posted... jimmy did. so thanks for accusing me of something i DONT do, and NEVER posted....


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## AlmagroN (Jul 19, 2009)

jimmy said:


> wen i put a horse in a cart the 1st day i tie it up allday attached to the cart and during the course of the day lift rock and push the cart against him so he gets used to the feel of everything especially the breeching


there it is. as you can see, it WASNT my post.

anyway i wanted to appoligize for getting off topic there. but i get tired of being flamed for how i do things. anyway, like i stated- i see no problem with breaking as yearlings, and i stick with it.


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## lillie (Oct 26, 2009)

you say " when did i say i told anyone they know nothing" you then continue with "i did" yes, you did!! jimmy did say that he tied his to a cart all day, but he didnt mention putting stones in it and going back to move them around periodically. i admit that i cant find that post which i am convinced that you wrote, but i will apologise if i did get muddled up in the flurry of posts last week. but the fact remains that i find you very agressive, so that is mutual. and i remind you that i exited the discussion on your dynamo jin thread last week, because i thought it was all going downhill into a bitchfest. the only reason it is back on this thread now is that YOU asked why jimmy gets a more pleasant response than you. why dont we start an entire new thread for this issue; we could call it the "disagree and lets be childish " thread. that way we are not taking over other peoples threads, and people dont have to be bored reading it if they dont want to. and you can whine about my injustice at questioning your methods, as much as you want--- i'm up for it.


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## FjordFan (Oct 3, 2008)

jimmy said:


> of course you are fjord and i,m not saying your wrong but i don,t think i am wrong either i dont want to really get in to it because look at the fallout the last similar thread caused,i gave advice in favour of whats worked for me you give advice on what works for you and then its up to the op what they do is,ent that fair enough


Shame horse welfare doesn't come into it when you are doing what works in _your_ favour. And any advice that compromises animal welfare shouldn't be given.


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## sophie123 (Sep 19, 2009)

agreed!


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

sorry fjord dident realize you dictated who can say what,will watch my manners in future. when you write the book let me know cheers


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

This thread is going down hill and it seems all is said that needs to be said.


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