# Fei weg 2018



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Go, Cameron and Team USA!!


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## QueenofFrance08 (May 16, 2017)

All I see on Facebook is people complaining about the screw up.... Signs all of my facebook friends are endurance riders?


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

It sounds like there are a ton of issues... construction still going on, grooms in tents or housed an hour away because they 'didn't anticipate the number that came', all sorts of fiascos with endurance... and a huge hurricane about to dump a bunch of rain.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I heard they were pushing to cancel the endurance due to problems with the course surface and some horses being sent the wrong way?


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

First, some teams went down the wrong trail, then, it rained on the newly bulldozed trail, and that turned the humidity up, so....they cancelled.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

May Imake an observation?

When I started doing endurance, in SETexas where even in winter it can be 90 with 85% humidity, we camped in tent
s, or slept in horse trailers covered with blue tarps. Nobody ever complained about trail conditions. We took care of the horses and sweated night and day. 

About 2 years in, the living quarters trailers started rolling in. We started having rules about generator shut off times. People started complaining abouttrail conditions....too sandy, too dusty, too muddy, too rocky. Anyone one else see a connection? 

I am sorry for all those who traveled so far and trained so hard.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

From what I have seen on FB, TV, and other forums, a lot of the griping was by the UAE team. I feel bad for the riders who had their event canceled completely.... what a fiasco.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't think you could deny anyone the right to complain about the mix up that sent some riders on the wrong route.
I don't think grooms that are used to sleeping in trailers and tents at competitions (which is most of them at some time or another) would be complaining if that was what they were being asked to do - its the whole communal bunkbed tent thing that I think is the problem. I don't think I'd get any sleep at all if I had someone snoring a few feet away from me and I wouldn't be keen on having to sleep amongst total strangers either. Thats not even getting into the whole heat and humidity in a tent full of shared bodily smells!!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

What irks me is not that they cancelled Endurance... but to do so when so many were only a few miles from the finish and doing well? The Spanish team did wonderfully and thought they had won as people cheered them through the finish, then to find out that their achievement was null and void over an hour previous and nobody had told them? ...How heartbreaking. If the vet checks work as they should, horses who cannot continue due to the weather or who are exhausted in the sloppy footing should be identified and pulled. Stop horses who are struggling in the conditions and let those on the final loop already who are cruising along without problems finish and get their completion medals and wins. To let riders remain on course for an hour after the event was cancelled is inexcusable. If conditions were so poor, why didn't anyone worry about those horses?

The whole thing is embarrassing to the US. Whether it has any bearing or not, stopping a race due to conditions when many were still doing well, but it wasn't the teams that SHOULD be winning reeks of underhandedness, and makes one wonder if the real issue was not the weather and footing, but that the restart caused those who were expected to win more of an issue than those who were a bit slower on the first loop, and that was the biggest problem.


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## EstrellaandJericho (Aug 12, 2017)

I saw this and some memes that I can't share because they aren't family friendly. Is any of this true?


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ That's pretty much the gist of what I have seen, too. Unbelievable.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Just want to say that if you travel by train in a sleeper car in Europe or Russia (and I don't know other places), you will be placed with strangers in VERY close quarters. Yes--b.o., bad breath, alcohol breath, snoring. But that is how it is done. I was shocked the first time I had to sleep with strange men within feet of my bunk. Nobody thought a thing about it (but me).

From "Guide to Night Trains and Sleeping on Trains in Europe"
"What Is A Couchette?
A couchette is a separate cabin that normally holds 4-6 bunked beds — it’s basically a mini hostel room. You’ll be placed with strangers if your party doesn’t fill up all the beds (assuming the train is busy). Couchettes are normally co-ed, but there are always a few female-only cabins.
Couchette cabins don’t have a locking door, but there is an attendant on duty that helps with security. All reservations include a pillow, a sheet, and a blanket."


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Why we call it endurance. I have not been able to find any times, but when our horses got hot, we slowed down. You walk, sponge, let the horse graze, then carry on, slower, if need be, but maintaining the 6 mph average or better needed to finish. In the UAE, that is not how it works. I don’t know about the other countries. 

The sad thing is that we trusted the FEI. There have been discussions over the years about pulling American endurance out. Hindsight is 20/20..


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Ugh...53 horses in treatment by the second loop....and 1 euthanized. No wonder they had to cancel the ride.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

They should have rescheduled to start with! I mean they knew there was a hurricane coming. They needed to take into account the insane temperatures and move the event to October. Who schedules a big show like that in the summer? 

I've seen riders pass out in the show ring because of excessive temperatures. It is downright dangerous to be outside in this heat. Here in Florida it is 94 degrees, all sunny, with heat indexes over 100. I didn't ride the last few days because it is 93 degrees at 8pm, and bright sun by 7:30am. If you want to ride, you might be okay from 6-7am, if you go slow due to the humidity.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You also have to remember that horses coming from countries where they aren't used to high heat combined with high humidity had no time to even start to get used to it before the race.


At least the horse that had to be euthanized was pulled up by the rider


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Yes, but most of these competitors compete internationally. Granted, races are run differently in different countries. For instance, in UAE, the horses run with support teams in trucks. But at least one of the riders, Cameron Holzer, competes in the humid environs of SE Texas, and would know how to care for her horse in these conditions. We were always cautioned by the vets about ride conditions (I don’t know if this is done at International rides), and the pulse parameters were set according to conditions.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Endurance in the UAE and the EU is drastically different than in the US; in the US, weather and terrain play a much greater role. Riders who paced their horses and were careful were still doing well. Riders who went out at the typical speed did not. A shame it had to be cancelled because too many riders pushed their horses too hard.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Apparently Dressage Freestyle has been cancelled. They initially tried to postpone it a day, but the international horses' flights could not be changed, then were going to take the dirt out of the indoor arena and bring the dressage ring dirt in, but realized that couldn't be done in time to get the horses out on their flights either, so no Dressage Freestyle. What a mess these games have turned out to be with everything, and then the weather on top of it.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

We can’t possibly ride on plain dirt?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Was the indoor set up for the reining classes, the surface would be different to one suited for dressage. 
The weather was out of their control though maybe late October would have been better, it’s still warm but the heat and humidity reduced a lot
I feel sorry for all the people who paid to travel and stay there wanting to see specific events and those that have had to travel horses and teams for nothing, not to mention the risks involved in shipping horses from abroad


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

The reining surface is wholly unsuitable for dressage; it's far too deep and slippery. Upper-level dressage horses are competed only on a certain type of footing-- it's firm, springy, and much of it is made up of fabric and artificial fibers. Even compacted, or stripped to the base layer, the reining/general riding surface would not have been allowed. In order for it to work, they would have had to remove the entire indoor surface, bring in the outdoor surface, and then swap the whole thing back out again a day later for the other events. Not possible.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I have been reading about the cancellation of the endurance ride on other forums. I can see both sides. NC has mountains. I can only imagine the outcry if 6 riders and 6 horses were killed due to a landslide or mudslide. Then everyone would be howling because there is that danger and it was not addressed. The officials had to make an educated guess as to safety. They made it. A lot of people thought they were wrong. I feel so sorry for everyone who lost out.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

The conditions weren't great, but the bigger issue was that so many riders had not compensated for the terrain and weather, and the horses were not passing the vet checks. When 20 out of 30 horses are pulled at the first check with exhaustion and in need of fluids, that's an issue. Those who paced themselves and rode slowly did well, but if there were that many riders who were overfacing their horses, the decision was the right one.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

If there were still horses fit to continue, they should have been allowed to go on. They should have been strongly cautioned about conditions....

If 75% of the reining horses had fallen down around a turn, would they have cancelled reining for the safety of the other 25%? I don’t think so. 

We don’t cancel the KY Derby when the track is sloppy and the weather is bad. 

The horses that are not being properly read by their riders get pulled. The riders who know and care for the horse continue and win. If it is the last man “standing”, then they certainly deserve the award. 

I am an extremely conservative rider who raises and trains her own horses, so I feel like I “know” them really well, and am attune to their feelings. I also am not competitive by nature, and never cared about my “permenant record”...(some riders are concerned about pulls showing on the AERC record), so if my horses were ever off at all, I pulled. 
That is not the general race type for the FEI rides. It is more of a long distance flat track race style. The horse’s needs remain the same......


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

It sounds like the issue was that too many riders were not taking adequate care of the horses, so the decision was made to end the race before more horses were endangered.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I cant see how they could have continued when some of the horses had been sent on the wrong route


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

jaydee said:


> I cant see how they could have continued when some of the horses had been sent on the wrong route


They stopped the race, let everyone pulse down, then restarted the race on a shortened course. Aside from the later start time, it doesn't seem like that was the biggest issue. From what the report from the endurance crew said, the course conditions were getting slippery and muddy, and the earlier rain and later sun made things extremely humid and warm. The majority of horses were NOT passing the vet checks, and the vets were afraid that if things were left to continue, horses' lives were in danger as riders were not compensating for the weather and terrain adequately. One person is quoted as saying something like "we didn't want to end it, but the alternative was going to be quite a few dead horses." That's harsh, but if that's the case, I'm glad they stopped it. Some of the FEI endurance teams are not known for placing their horses' welfare first. At the time the race was called, there were something like 50+ horses receiving emergency care for metabolic/dehydration issues. That's unacceptable, whether it was the weather or lack of rider knowledge or a combination of the two.

It's still baffling to me that they couldn't stop the race where it was, and award the placings to those riders who were ahead on the course, and whose horses vetted clear after the race. They rode nearly 100 miles in those conditions, took care of their horses, and deserved their completion and placings.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

greentree said:


> If 75% of the reining horses had fallen down around a turn, would they have cancelled reining for the safety of the other 25%? I don’t think so.
> 
> We don’t cancel the KY Derby when the track is sloppy and the weather is bad.
> 
> ...


Poor ground conditions at shows and races has certainly led to events being cancelled. It happened last year or the year before at a major racetrack after several horses broke down within the span of a few days; the race meet was halted and the ground reworked before racing resumed. Shows are cancelled, postponed or halted due to ground conditions frequently. Last week an area NBHA barrel race was cancelled because riders felt the ground was unsafe during warmups. A draft horse show moved classes to the morning rather than evening due to forecasted high heat and humidity this week. Unfortunately, many of the riders at the FEI events have a history of putting wins ahead of horse welfare, and that's what the official statements keep pussyfooting around without coming out and saying directly. I won't get into the rumors about teams that were eliminated just before the race was called, and pressure from those teams to stop it and rerun it at another location, but that also happened, apparently. Whether it had any bearing on the official cancellation is up for debate.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Here is the perspective of a crew member.....
2018 WEG Show Special Episode ? Tevis Winner Heather Reynolds on the Canceled Endurance Race | Horse Radio Network


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The person in that interview wasn't very complimentary about the organising of the event.
It would be nice if it could be re-run at another location but considering costs I can't see how that could be afforded by the average rider if they've got to travel a long way and take time of work again

Is there any record of the riders who were still vetted clear and on the course when the decision to stop was called?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

jaydee said:


> The person in that interview wasn't very complimentary about the organising of the event.
> It would be nice if it could be re-run at another location but considering costs I can't see how that could be afforded by the average rider if they've got to travel a long way and take time of work again
> 
> Is there any record of the riders who were still vetted clear and on the course when the decision to stop was called?


Yes. About a third of the riders were on course and vetted clear at that point, as I understand it.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Avna said:


> Yes. About a third of the riders were on course and vetted clear at that point, as I understand it.


But do we know who they were?


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

jaydee said:


> But do we know who they were?


Oh. I was sort of following the discussion on the Other Horse Board (the snarky one). Maybe I'll go back and see if there is a linky.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm just curious
I did some google searches but came up with nothing. 
There might be something in this weeks Horse and Hound I suppose


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

All I can glean is that the Spanish and French teams were all fine. The UAE team was the first to fail the vetting, and also, rumor mill has it, was the team which started a wild stampede which caused all the problems to begin with. 

Not so surprising as endurance racing in the Middle East is very different, it is a real race (just a long long long canter on flat ground) and many horses die. So I have heard. Also those horses trained for flat and zero humidity and were faced with the exact opposite.

FEI endurance is not much like AERC endurance, it appears.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Thanks Avna


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Two of the American riders were still in, and doing well. Since word got out and some quit before the check, they don’t have that data as official.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Avna said:


> All I can glean is that the Spanish and French teams were all fine. The UAE team was the first to fail the vetting, and also, rumor mill has it, was the team which started a wild stampede which caused all the problems to begin with.
> 
> Not so surprising as endurance racing in the Middle East is very different, it is a real race (just a long long long canter on flat ground) and many horses die. So I have heard. Also those horses trained for flat and zero humidity and were faced with the exact opposite.
> 
> FEI endurance is not much like AERC endurance, it appears.


No, it is not, but years ago it was sold to us as BETTER...more care for the horse(check in AND out of vet checks, more organized-snicker-, etc), well worth a few more rules, and , of course, more fees....snort.


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