# Mare in foal - purchased pasture exposed



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Hello! New here, but looking for some input. 

I purchased this young mare when I moved my gelding to family property as a pasture mate. She was feral (we're doing better on that) but she is terrified of ropes and halters so I'm unable to get her seen by a vet at this time. Doing by best to get her there. 

Posting pictures. First is from April 30th, second is from Memorial Day. I moved her in October last year, so I know she's at least 9 months along, but any helpful input would be appreciated. No udder development yet.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

looks like you have a baby on the way.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Well, yes... I gathered by the physical development lol. Just trying to get a feel for when I should start camping out for all nighters, is all. She's a bit smaller than the stud and only 3 this year, so I'd like to be around incase something is amiss.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

To clarify, she was pastured in a large her that included a stud before I bought her. I moved my gelding to family property because of the lack of forage, and bought her to accompany him since they were already acquainted. Now, knowing she is likely in foal after all, I'm glad I did or she'd have been in poor conditon.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

First thing you need to do is get that mare in a small area so you can get her handled before the foal arrives. If you think she's feral now, wait until she goes all protective over a foal. Or worse, rejects it but won't let you near it. She'll go roughly 11 months from last cover, so if she's at least 9 months now, you may have about 2 months to go. You need to get her to allow you to catch and halter her, lead her around and then start working on getting her into a stock so she can be examined.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Agreed. She needs to be in a small area where you can work with her. What if she or the foal need vet care after foaling? You can't have a feral mare that won't allow herself to be caught and handled or if there is a problem, you'll be helpless to assist her or the foal, or will have to traumatize her to care for her or the baby. Get her in a small place and work with her on being caught, haltered, and led--- groomed and handled, etc. Teach her to load in a trailer in case she needs to go to the emergency vet. Do that now. Murphy's law guarantees foaling problems will happen to the mare you can't handle, so get her used to being handled. Even if all goes well with foaling, a mare you can't catch will lead to a wary foal you can't catch. If you lack the skills to get the mare used to being handled, a week or two with a trainer will help a lot.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

To clarify, she was completely feral when I got her in October. Couldn't touch her, couldnt get close to her. 

Now, she does come up to anyone for attention, loves kisses on the nose. I can, at this point, rub my hands all over her, brush her, pick feet up, etc. She's pretty friendly and sweet (I was told this is how she was as a weanling before being turned out for 2 years). My grandma refers to her as "nosey pest" lol. And I have been working with her with the halter and rope, but it's a process and a delicate balance between pushing limits a little and breaking trust. At THIS point, she is not halter broke and I was simply asking for opinions about how close she might be, as I can't say for certain I'll have her in a halter and trailered before she foals. 

And, only 2 horses on 11 acres - she's got space to be scarce after foaling, should she end up being hostile over it. But her personality suggests she'd be more likely to come show it off. If she does reject it, that's a different story and of course I'll do what needs to be done to get the foal away and cared for. 

She is kept with my gelding. He has been around foals just about every spring of his 21 years. Never had an issue. The property is crossfenced into two equal sections, so they can be separated if needed.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

So, there's no "small space" out there. Frankly, I've rarely used a roundpen for training. Moving them out there was a quick decision, and done rather hastily as the place I had my gelding boarded was no longer safe for me or him. They have free choice forage, access to water and shelter - but there's no pen or barn or anything like that. So far, I haven't needed it with her to come as far as we have. When I say she's scared of ropes and halters, it's a real fear. If you're outside, she wants to be with you and will lead freely (the trick is getting her to go away lol). Bring out a rope or halter, she gets very nervous and antsy. 

Trainers local to me are notorious for taking your money and only working the horse when they know you're coming. I don't trust trainers, which is why I'm working on her myself. I didn't ask for training advice, just input on how close she might be to foaling.


----------



## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

Bas180001 said:


> When I say she's scared of ropes and halters, it's a real fear. If you're outside, she wants to be with you and will lead freely (the trick is getting her to go away lol). Bring out a rope or halter, she gets very nervous and antsy.
> 
> I didn't ask for training advice, just input on how close she might be to foaling.


I have a donkey (different than a horse, I know) who was the same way. Within a short time of purchasing him, I could touch him all over, pick up feet, etc. Bring a halter, lead rope, even hay string out and he was gone. Would not come within reach, even for food. You could tell it was fear, idk what his prior experience with people was. Obviously not a good one. So I feel your pain. Best of luck getting her over her fear.

As to how close she is to foaling, that is hard to predict by picture alone - especially with (I presume, given her age) a maiden. If she was pulled out of the pasture 9 months ago, she could not have more than 2 months to go, if I am doing my math correctly. The more handling she receives, the better the chance she will be receptive to help (if needed) when foaling.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Yes, I paid for and moved her the first weekend of October of last year, with my gelding. So she is AT LEAST 9 months along. There was only 3 weeks or so between the pictures, so maybe more?

When I say it was hastily done - the forage ran out at the boarding place and no more would be planted. More horses were being added to the pasture on top of that, and my gelding was dropping weight despite my best efforts (and I'm talking 10 lbs of feed a day and as much hay as he would eat at a time). Horses started breaking out to find food, and the night a different mare (not mine) backed me up on a barbed fence and kicked the crap outta me, we were outta there. So, I realize my set up isn't ideal and I've not gotten her as far as she needs to be in regards to desensitizing her, but it was by necessity. Truly. Someone was bound to get hurt, and that someone was gonna be me. (Note, neither of my horses have ever offered a kick since I've had them. )

I have gotten her to where I can be around with a halter in hand, but she's wary of it. The one time I could rub a rope on her, she tolerated for all of 5 seconds before bolting. But this is something we work on several days a week. 

She does let me rub her (even her belly and hind quarters), brush her, walk around, pick up feet, etc. She's learned ground manners in short time and really is just the sweetest thing. 

I just don't want to give the impression that I'm naive or don't know anything. I picked her because she was young and (although ungentled) had a good temperment. She and my gelding got along well before moving, so I knew there wouldn't be bullying. My options are trailering her or build stocks for the vet to come out. Neither being something I can do overnight. 

Ps - if anyone happens to have good prints for a solid stock or any ideas on that, creatively, I'm all ears.


----------



## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

What I ended up doing with my donkey was using dormosedan (sp?) Once the sedative took effect, I slipped a halter with short lead on it - just long enough to grab hold of. This was necessary because I had a mare, and wasn't looking to have any mules. He needed to be gelded.

I wouldn't recommend that course of action with your mare. Just saying that's what I had to resort to. (With vet's in put, and advise). I would suggest getting her used to other people, if possible. Make it easier if the vet is needed. 

Also, I would suggest creating a small fenced in area, and getting her confined to a smaller space. You might even consider a round pen type set up, or building something similar. Normally I would not suggesting rushing it, but in case of emergency mama needs to be able to be handled.


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

For halter breaking, carry a halter with you. If she sniffs it or acts curious, give her a cookie. You will get the halter on with no trouble. Make sure to use a breakaway halter, in case she does get spooked before you can remove it. 

Carry a lead rope and let her get used to the sight of it without putting it on. Let her see it drag on the ground and touch her with it while grooming.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

So maybe I should clarify again:

I've been working with feral horses for 20 years. I didn't ask for training tips, I asked for input on how close my mare may be to foaling. I've never bred a horse and had no intention of ever doing so, so THIS is something I don't know about. I get what you all are saying but the last thing I need to do is stress out a pregnant mare and break the trust we've built. 

She does, at this time, let me do just about everything you would need a halter to do: she does lead, stops at the shoulder. I can brush her, worm her, get fly spray on her, pick up her feet, clean her feet, put hands from nose to tail. She will walk right up to you and demand pets. What I DON'T want to do is ruin all of that because "but a HALTER!". Not entirely certain she wouldn't just follow me onto a trailer, I haven't tried it yet - but I will this weekend. Frankly, she does so well without implements, I'm considering liberty training with her. And I did purchase a breakaway halter when I got her, as I haven't ever left my horses haltered. The trouble is, she's terrified of it. 

So, if no one has any good input on what to look for and how close she might be, I'm happy to delete this thread. But ENOUGH with the halter business. I asked for specific information, and this is way off topic. She's my horse, I'll do as I deem necessary. 

Say what you might, my gelding was on the path to being a killer when I got him. Now he's quiet and comes quietly when I call his name. Lots of details in there, but the only time we spent in the round pen was when I FIRST bought him, to join up. I've never had him restricted since, and only halter when the farrier comes. So, yes - I know what I'm doing training wise. 

So please - thoughts on her development. First picture was April 30th, second was May 27th. As of yesterday, there was movement in the flanks and she's wider than ever.


----------



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi- It's really hard to tell about the point in gestation just by looking at the mare. Of course you know her better than anyone else and know what she looked like when you got her. And some maiden mares don't even wax up that much. For our maiden mare we noticed significant relaxing around the tail head - as in it was "mushy" when you palpated it - our mares belly changed dramatically in shape a week or so before foaling and it was very obvious the foal had moved into the birthing position. Our maiden mare never really got a big bag before she foaled but was an excellent mother with plenty of milk after. Have fun with the baby and than you for rescuing.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Her croup and tailhead are still pretty firm as of last night. But, you can see how much it's hollowed out over the past month or so. I do know she's at minimum 9 months in, as I moved her last October and she's been pastured with my gelding (who is now 21, so he's def not fertile). But I doubt sincerely she made it through heat cycles all the way through last spring and summer and got bred in September with a stallion on the pasture. 

She did have streaks on her back legs yesterday, so I don't know if she's getting a little bag and working it off by midday or if she's just dirty. But none on her front, and my gelding doesn't have them (they're always side by side). 

I just want to reiterate, I did not breed this mare. She came to me this way. But I will be keeping the foal. Good chance for a pintaloosa (small chance for a red pintaloosa but I'm hoping), and the stud was just as personable as she is (for me anyways), hes a black blanket appaloosa but has thrown red colts. She's a black and white paint, but her mama was a bay paint - no idea about her sire. Incase you're curious. 

Obviously, I will post pictures of the foal. I've been able to get her body condition improved despite the pregnancy, so I'm hoping for an easy foaling. And she is wormed routinely (I do mine every 3 months with rotating wormers). She's so curious, I can just stick the wormer in her mouth LOL no halter needed. She always does look a bit bewildered after though.


----------



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I am not a genetics expert but black and red have the same base. I think a Bay would be exciting to see on the foal. The mare looks to be in good flesh in your pics and if she is at least 9 months along you just have a few weeks to wait it out. FWIW we knew the exact dates our maiden mare was bred and she still fooled us when she foaled! And color wise she fooled us as well we bred to a very very dark Sooty buckskin and our mare was a gorgeous cherry red sorrel (Impressive bred AQHA) and we were surprised with the lightest of light palomino colts.

I know you did not breed this mare and are doing everything you can to ensure a healthy foal- can't wait to see pics. You may want to start a foaling thread.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

I may do that. I'm open to tips and input on foaling. I have a vet that I use, they're aware of her condition and that I'm trying to either get here there or get stocks built so they can come out (the preferred route, honestly), but where we are is a good 30 minutes at least from the closest vet (which is them, coincidentally). If something happens (such as a dystocia or red bag presentation) I am ALL EARS from experienced breeders on what to do. If something goes amiss, they won't be able to get there quick enough. I'm sincerely hoping for a routine foaling, so I can just sit back and watch. 

I have zero intention on breeding her again. Frankly, her lack of stature and papers makes this one an irresponsible breeding imho. And unless she throws a pintaloosa, the foal will not be able to be papered either. But, it should mature around 14 hh, and would make a great riding horse for yours truly (I've retired my gelding to a very expensive lawn ornament).


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

@carshon Agouti when present in dominant form will show on a black horse. As she has no lightening around the muzzle that says black and not bay so she would be aa for Agouti. Same with the sire. As Sire has red babies you know he is Ee (E-black and e-red). In order for red to present phenotypically you have to have two copies as it is recessive to E. If the mare carries e then you could get a red baby but if she doen't carry e you'll only get black babies. There are some color presentations that hide on black in single form so in the event both carry and baby would happen to get one from each there is a possibility for something else to pop up like a double cream dilution. 



OP for either of those you would need to present and in my experience when a vet is that far out if you aren't right there as the delivery happens then you lose one, possibly both. It will all depend on the mare. I have one that waits until there is no one present. No amount of watching will get you front row seats. In her case even if stalled she'd suck it up and hold it in and probably break any camera she could access.... Chances are you'll wake up to a foal and all will be well. Hoping this is so.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Yeah, red or black is my best guess without genetic testing. And frankly, this is an oops foal, nothing especially spectacular (although obviously my horses are special to me) so there's no need to pay good money for all that. The sire has thrown a gruella blanket app out of a gruella mare, a smokey black out of a bay paint, a sorrel overo out of a sorrel solid (I suspect this is a crop out on her part), and a slew of sorrel, bay, and tricolor paints. I notice he tends to throw color that takes after the dam - although that smokey black was a weird one! Pretty though. 

Considering there's only one other horse with her, and she very much sees people as her herd, she may not be too secretive. But, where they are now I can hear them anywhere on the pasture from the porch late at night. I intend to start camping out 24/7 there and listen, once we see a belly drop and her croup soften. I wouldn't be surprised of my gelding starts to holler either. 

There's no other way around it. Sleepless nights and all that, but I have to be present for her. Even if it's from a safe distance. She does tend to lay out around 11 am every day, so maybe she'll foal around that time (wishful wishing, I know). 

Just curious, what is a double cream dilute? I've done a little research but as I never had any interest in breeding, I don't know a heck of a lot.


----------



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I like to recommend this book. It covers what you need to have on hand, what to look for and what to do if things go south. 

https://www.amazon.com/Blessed-Brood-Howell-Equestrian-Library/dp/0876058489

Do a search on e-bay and you should be able to find it much cheaper.


----------



## TeeZee (May 26, 2018)

I just want to add to watch for massive mood swings. She may decide your gelding is the devil and give him a whooping. If you don't have a way to seperate, I would work on it now. Across a fence would be great. She won't really want to be completely alone, but she won't want company either. Hormones are funny things.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

The total property is crossfenced, but they back part is mostly woods. I could separate them for a short time and throw hay and put another water tank if needed. It's split into a 6/5 acre lot. 

That being said he is considerably bigger than her. And a heck of a lot faster (he's arab tb cross, she's a welsh pony type). 

So far, she just seems to get a bit cranky. Like she wants attention, and then she's sick of it and gets a little mouthy - very similar to a cat. The biggest change I've noted this past week is her reluctance to move faster than an amble LOL she's so wide, she waddles. Poor gal. She has also become pretty lopsided. 

But, I'm watching carefully.


----------



## TeeZee (May 26, 2018)

Going back and looking at the pics, her hindquarters 'look' to be softening or it could be the lighting?


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

They've definitely hollowed out but still pretty firm. I understand theyll get jiggly? 

Which is kinda sad, because she had WONDERFUL confirmation back there before it started. I hope it all fills back in (I'm a sucker for a round rump on a horse).


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Hey, just an update:

Her belly has dropped considerably, her hind quarters are quite soft, lady bits look a bit swollen. 

She's also rolling a lot, and isn't hardly moving her tail at all (she's having a hard time clamping down when I touch back there). So, I'm camping out on the porch this weekend. We have a storm rolling in this evening so we may have a foal - just gotta wait and see. 

Now that's she's completely shed out and I've gotten her clean - there's a red sheen to her black spots. Is there such a thing as a smokey black paint? Previous comment about a double dilute may hold more weight than I thought. 

Will post pictures. Fingers crossed!


----------



## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

Best of luck to you and her... can't wait to see adorable baby pictures. I'm not much of a color expert, so I will leave that for others to comment on...


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

I honestly don't care as long as they're healthy. 

A red or cream dilute blanket app or pintaloosa would be pretty cool, not gonna lie. Knowing my luck, it'll be a rather unremarkable bay lol. Guess we'll see. 

She's doing the flehman face and lifting her tail like she's gonna tinkle... Then nothing and right back to grazing. ???


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

I know people will go right to colic... I've watched her poo a few times today. Still well formed, so no concern there. She is eating and drinking. 

I'm posted up in a chair under a tree watching her graze lol. She's kinda cranky today. She walked right over, nipped me, and walked off.. 

Normally not a biter.


----------



## Feathers7 (Jun 11, 2019)

Bas180001 said:


> I honestly don't care as long as they're healthy.
> 
> A red or cream dilute blanket app or pintaloosa would be pretty cool, not gonna lie. Knowing my luck, it'll be a rather unremarkable bay lol. Guess we'll see.
> 
> She's doing the flehman face and lifting her tail like she's gonna tinkle... Then nothing and right back to grazing. ???


And it'll be the cutest unremarkable bay you've ever seen in your life. :razz: Can't wait to see! Best of luck!!!


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Lol oh yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter. I'm keeping it regardless. 

I half expected her to have it overnight. She's really close, and we had storms move through. But alas - this morning they come out of shelter and she's still pregnant. 

Day is still young, and there's a second front coming this afternoon so... *hopeful* she tends to lay out around 11 am.


----------



## TeeZee (May 26, 2018)

I love this meme! Everytime one of us are nervously awaiting the arrival, I think of it.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Yeah lol I told my grandma, she's just waiting for me to leave LOL. Maybe I'll run up to the store for a pack of smokes teehee. 

Seriously - her sides have flattened out, her croup is soft, belly is much lower, ladybits are puffy. She's giving a flehman face quite a lot, yawning a lot, stretching her back legs straight out (that ones definitely new). But no foal. 

And she's cranky as all get out. For the past 8 months or so she's been nosey and very personable. Would come up and demand pets and attention, follow you around and insist. This morning, she walks over just to pin her ears and give me a nasty look before walking away. Now she's ignoring me completely. COMPLETE 180. 

I honestly cannot deal with THAT indefinitely. She needs to have this foal.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Just another update:

She's thinking long and hard about it. Started the day yawning a lot, cranky. Now her vulva is relaxed and puffy (no wrinkles), winking a bit and she's rubbing her behind on the fence. She refuses to come over to me, is being antisocial and seems to want to be alone. 

Of course, we have a big storm front moving in (think high winds, produced a tornado a bit ago, more rain). My gut says colt, and if it's born in this I'm naming him Pecos. Ya know, Pecos Bill? 🙂

If she's not in prelabor, she's doing a great job at acting.


----------



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Keep up the updates. I'm anxiously waiting to see that baby! It's much more enjoyable when you're not the one doing foal watch duty. LOL I empathize with you though, I did more than my fair share of it back in the day.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Subbing!


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Still no foal. She's been up and down this morning, and grazing vehemently for the past few days. 

And of course, I have to leave. Goodness, this mare will be the death of me.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Subbing to see pictures!


----------



## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

If both sire and dam are truly black, bay is not an option for the foal as nobody has a dominant agouti to give to create bay.

There is no visual difference between black and smoky black (which would more accurately be described as 'black carrying cream'). Some of the so-called tells people have attributed to a cream gene have shown to be nd1 - like lighter hair in the ears. A red tint on the black hair simply means the horse is fading, not that a cream gene is at play.


Hoping the foal puts in an appearance soon and with no drama..


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

I don't really know a lot about color genetics, honestly. I can make an educated guess but really it will be a surprise. 

Sire has thrown gruella, sorrel, black, palomino, and bay. He's thrown solids, paints, and blanket appaloosas (which he is). Ive noticed he tends to throw foals that take their base color after their dam. 

I know that my mare's dam was a bay paint. No idea as to her sire. She was picked up at auction as a 6 month old (was in with her dam) before she came to me as a 3 yo. 

Based on that, my only real guess would be a black or sorrel base color. Might be a solid, paint, appaloosa, or pintaloosa. 

Or she could throw something completely left field *shrug* we'll know soon enough. 

Still no foal. This baby needs to come on!


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

@*TeeZee* I love that meme. Had never seen it before. I can say this year I had a mare that showed every sign in August of last year. EVERY.SINGLE.SIGN. Every one. Big as a battleship and just as ponderous, too. All documented. Then all the signs disappeared. She delivered in March. Once again all the signs appeared and she kept us in suspense for weeks. Didin't deliver until I loaded luggage in the car and headed off to meet with my parents to drop the boys off for a week with granny. The luggage did it. She delivered a half hour before I drove back down the drive. 



It's funny how language around a subject develops. You hear all the time Sire threw X,Y.Z color when all they did was donate a gene (or two or three) for it. They, neither the sire nor the mare, can throw what they don't have. You can make some pretty accurate guesses as to color though if you have the information related to what color babies they have on the ground as well as what might be hiding (recessive) by looking at their parents on back. 



Off track here but one thing about physical make up that gets over looked is that at the follicle there is not simply one little color factory but several. They all contribute to the actual pigmentation in the hair. Genes control the majority but if you look at the pigmentation present in each strand, and it differs body region to body region; there is both red and black pigment in every strand. The percent differs depending on location but there is color there to react to the gene expression.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

So, the signs have subsided. I'd be SERIOUSLY surprised if she goes anither six months, seeing as she's past the 9 month mark at this point lol. But, she's back to her nosey pest of a self, and her belly is bulging back out. I guess baby decided he needed to bake a little longer lol. 

She's carrying on her left side, and it's beyond obvious. Looking at her head on, she's unbelievably lopsided. She's visibly uncomfortable and thanks to everything on her back end relaxing, she WADDLES lol oh man, I chuckle just watching her. 

But she is sweet, and I'm hoping her foal inherits her good temperment and sense of humor. At this point, I don't even care about color I just want to see those little ears and hear baby nickers! 

My gut says it's a colt, but we'll see.


----------



## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Oh, the suspense is unbearable. Foal already, you darn mare :lol:


How can a mare go six months longer than you thought she would foal?? :O Can't imagine


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

That was in reference to a prior post someone made. 

I know she's at least 9 month because of when I moved her. But I very seriously doubt she was having cycles all last spring and summer and didn't get bred until the end of September. 

I feel so sorry for her, she's so WIDE. I have been worming her routinely, so I know it's not that. 

Maybe we'll have a July 4th baby 🙂 soooo many name options there! Of course, now that I've wished for it, she's bound to foal immediately.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

@Bas180001
When I bought my first QH stallion after moving here and then a second was delivered in an "I need a place to keep him please, please, please..." situation I had two stallions out with several mares on 25 acres. They split the girls but I didn't see foal one until 6 years later. Which means it took them 5 years to get the job done. I was to the point of having them both cut (the gift horse I did) so never say never while I do hope your mare was bred earlier rather than later you just don't know how much earlier. It may have been one month instead of two or she may being one that holds on longer than the average and will go closer to a year or over. We never did figure out what happened and there are a few theories. The one the vet believes is most likely is that she lost a twin. Background - a friend fed for us September 2017 and turned the stallion out with my mare herd. I didn't find out until that December when I asked her to feed again. I didn't remember her cycling that fall or winter and she is one that typically goes most of the year round. A pee test then later vet run bloods said she was pregnant. We all assumed August baby. Deer tore down the fence March 2018 but it wasn't down long and they (we thought) hadn't mixed. Turns out she wasn't pregnant from the Sept 17 exposure but was from the March 18. We had a slightly overdue March 2019 baby this year.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I blame @QtrBel for the suggestion " I can say this year I had a mare that showed every sign in August of last year. EVERY.SINGLE.SIGN. Every one. Big as a battleship and just as ponderous, too. All documented. Then all the signs disappeared. She delivered in March. Once again all the signs appeared and she kept us in suspense for weeks. Didin't deliver until I loaded luggage in the car and headed off to meet with my parents to drop the boys off for a week with granny. The luggage did it. She delivered a half hour before I drove back down the drive. " :rofl:

Pack your bags?

Or, really loud fireworks maybe? (Poor thing)

Could be she looks less pregnant as she gets more ready!


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Well, the stud she was pastured with breeds all those mares year after year. I'm sure he has it down by now. Thankfully, he's a well tempered boy. I would feel comfortable riding him as a stud, he's very sweet. 

I suspect she'll look less round when she's ready. But she's so lopsided lol I'm surprised she hasn't toppled over! I'll try to get pictures of it, it makes me chuckle.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Hey guys! Just an update! Her sides flattened out yesterday (as opposed to being as wide as she is tall) and she just seems a little "doe eyed" lol. Scratching her rear end on everything and acting VERY clingy. I did catch a glimpse of her lady bits, and they're pretty long and puffy so MAYBE this time she's not faking me out. 

I have started working with her on a halter. I can get it about halfway on, but she just wants to chew on it lol. She doesn't run from me, and even if she takes a few steps back, she comes right back up to me so that's coming along nicely. 

We're in the process of moving into the second house on the property, so I'm very hopeful I'll get to catch the foal! Added bonus: my gelding is MUCH calmer and more confident when I'm around all the time. 

Hope everyone is doing great! Will continue to post pictures when I can!


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

You picked her up in October, correct? It looks like she was bred later rather than earlier. If it was as late as September you could still have some waiting to do. They sure can drive you crazy.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

One of these is a pregnant mare a few weeks before foaling. The other is from a non pregnant mare that perpetually looks pregnant. Both have run in a herd with stallions at times and not been pregnant. Just food for thought. Looking forward to updated pictures of your mare.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Can you guess which is which?


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

So, I get your point but if you look at the pictures I posted in my first post you can see some significant development. There are other signs besides *just* her belly. Like, for instance, feeling distinct kicks from the foal. And the fact that her belly was REALLY lopsided there for a while. Hay and grass bellies aren't lopsided to that extreme (she was almost flat on one side for a few days last week, with the other side protruding way out). 

Yes, I moved her here the first weekend of October. I'm aware she could have been bred in September, and that would give us an August baby (most likely) but the current state of her vulva and how flat she is today vs yesterday makes me think it'll be MUCH sooner than that. I'll try to catch a picture of it, but like a GOOD horse, she always turns to face me. What a doll.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Know that feeling. I am trying to get registration shots on a new baby. I would rather not halter her and have them with her standing nicely. Nope. She wants to be right up in the camera. I had to get my child and his cousin to bribe her to get the pictures.



I've had mares that have had grass bellies look lopsided. I've also felt distinct movement I could have sworn were kicks and seen gas rolling through in a manner so convincing that I was expecting to see a foal until the vet palpation said no foal. They can really do a number on you. I've also seen false pregnancies and this past summer had a mare show every sign even to bagging up and waxing. Test strips said foal was on the way. Jellied out hind end, long, loose vulva. All of it. No baby. At least not until March. Every sign disappeared. I thought she went off and lost it as she even lost her roundness and went back to her almost usual self. Had the vet out and nope she was definitely still pregnant. 



Honestly, I really didn't see that much difference between the two pictures. I've gone back several times to look at them closely. That could be her coloring and pattern though. I hope she does deliver and has a healthy foal. It would be a huge disappointment not to once you're convinced of an outcome. I've been doing this a long time and seen quite a bit over the years. It wouldn't surprise me either way. You'd be roughly six weeks out on a mid to late September breeding so even these signs don't necessarily mean imminent birth. Have you felt for a bag?


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

I can bend down and look at her, her udders are large but no bag. However, this isn't uncommon in maiden mares (from what I've read in research) and bagging up isn't a reliable indication of pregnancy or foaling. 

That being said, she does have streaks down her legs so she may be "working it off" so to speak. 

If you didn't see the difference in her belly and croup, look again because it's pretty significant. And the second one was more than a month ago. 

I understand that some people may leave mares and studs together for "a time" and they come up empty... This mare was pastured with a stud year round for 2 years before I bought and moved her. He routinely breeds all the mares at that pasture, and given that she's "mature" it stands to reason he would have bred her too. Down here in Texas the days stay long and warm pretty late into the year, so a september pasture breeding is in no way surprising. 

And you've had grass bellies be THAT lopsided? Flat on one side and protruding nearly a foot on the other while standing squared up? I'd believe that when I see it. My gelding has a grass belly, and his is no where near hers. I'm not sure you have as good an eye as you think...


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Streaks down her legs can also be from pee when in heat. Urine during heat or even during pregnancy when high in estrogen seems to cause that as it is stickier and collects grunge as it dries. I am trying to get a picture transferred from my phone to upload. May or may not be as extreme as you are seeing but is definitely very lopsided.


----------



## TeeZee (May 26, 2018)

I just wanted to say that my guess on pregnancy regarding time possibly bred has been wrong before. I have seen studs completely uninterested in certain mares until something just clicked in him. We expect nature to follow certain rules for survival, but sometimes it doesn't happen as we expect. I have known a mare to foal in October that was turned out 24/7 with a stud. You just never know til it happens...or doesn't.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Well sure, it would make sense that he would've bred seasoned mares first. Or those that go into heat first. That's why I said she's at least 9 months, because that's when I moved her. 

I will say that she's 3 as of this year and I've not seen any sign of being in heat this whole season. One would expect to see her come into heat by now if she was open. I know that those foals grow the most on the last three months, and her belly seemingly grew overnight around mid May so... We might have a ways to go yet but given how low she is vs wide, when she was high and wide a week ago I'd be surprised if she went another 2 months. Or who knows, it might sit in position for 2 months. 

Horses are weird.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

My mares changed daily.....and that was knowing EXACTLY when they were bred....still there is that time when you feed, come in to make breakfast, then 10 minutes later, someone comes in from the barn saying, “You didn’t TELL me you had a new BABY!!!” .


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

That makes for an interesting morning for sure!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

She's very young and "growing up" with the stallion it is possible they just didn't breed. 2 years and no foal really is just waiting until something clicks which could be triggered by hormones, or not.

I have sheep and they are typically separated boys and girls, put them together and you have babies very promptly. I run mine together year round and they breed later as there is no "excitement" from the boys and girls being together in the fall. Of course horses are much different but with her age as a valid factor it's possible it just didn't happen.

Hoping for a baby next update


----------



## mkmurphy81 (May 8, 2015)

Now that you mention "growing up with the stallion," is it possible that the stallion was also the mare's sire? If so, I hope this foal is okay.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I think I figured it out.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Some mares rarely show heat signs. Called silent heat. Some are very obvious. Not seeing signs doesn't measure hasn't been cycling. At three with a stallion in the herd and no foal from the prior year he or she may not have been interested. Or she was being protected by another horse in the herd that considered her theirs. I've had that happen with a gelding that considered one of my draft mares his. I had to separate both mare and stallion from the herd into another pen for anything to happen.

You have a mystery on your hands and time will tell one way or another unless you get the vet out.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I hate this phone. Not measure. It should be means she isn't


----------



## TeeZee (May 26, 2018)

Fillies will start cycling around 6-7 months of age and are breedable at that time. So if she was with him this whole time, that would be two years of her cycling that she was not bred. Horses will not wait until they are 3 and more mature. She may have slipped foals previously, or he simply had no interest. I have 2 mares that show no signs of heat until there is a Mr. Studdly around. Then they can be quite embarrassing. I would like to see current pics of the mare to see how her progress is coming. The best place to feel a kick is behind the mare's belly button.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

No, the stud is not the mare's sire. She was picked up by previous owner at an auction as a weanling. This foal will be fine, as far as that is concerned. 

I will try to get pictures today. She's laying down a lot and groaning, tail flicking like crazy, and then back up and walking. No colic, I've seen her poo today. She's laying down in the same spot. 

It's good to know about the streaks. Going through my notes, she's had streaks down her legs for the past few months (that I've noticed).


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Progression. The lowest marking on her belly is showing more (she's a bit rounder on the underside today), tailhead is more prominent than it was in May. Ribs are showing a bit. Please excuse the trash pile, we're clearing out the second house bc we're moving into it. It's worth noting that her sides are flatter than they were last week, she's not as wide. 

April 30th
May 27th 
July 15th (today)


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

QtrBel said:


> Or she was being protected by another horse in the herd that considered her theirs.


So, I did board my gelding there for a little over a year. The geldings and minis herded together, and the stud kept all the standard mares to himself. It was 45 acres with 13 equine and a llama. That was just the dynamics I noticed. Every time I went to feed my gelding, he was up front with the minis and other geldings. Dreamer and the mares were elsewhere and they rarely were in the same area. 

There was a mare that she used to hide behind whenever we would approach, but otherwise there was no sign that another horse was "guarding" her. More like that mare treated her as her foal when she was young. She would've been about 18 months last Spring, and was moved out as a weanling/yearling so last year would've been the first year he really could have bred her. The lady I bought her from is also still waiting on a couple to drop, so it seems like he bred a few, took a break during the hottest part of the year, and started breeding them again. It's possible one of the earlier mares injured him.


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Mares can also put a hoof down so to speak. IME running a herd/s with one or more stallions not every mare gets bred. A different dynamic develops. 


So she wasn't out with the herd before 18 months?

We have mares here along the coast that cycle all year or at least 10 months. Most breeding when in a herd here was mid Feb to May and again Sept through Nov. Looking back at records and a friends record of her herd most babies were Feb, March and April with an occasional May or even June then again in August and Sept numbers picked up with some in Oct. For the drafts when I was in TX the most babies were March through May, an occasional June and a few stragglers in late August or early Sept. Both Dallas/ East Tx area and Hill Country. Drafts not saddle horses.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

She was out before 18 months, but I don't think she cycled during that time as it was later in the fall when she was purchased (she had a winter coat). She was still quite small and young, and this stud won't breed the minis or smaller mares. He just doesn't. 

Considering that there's still 2 over there waiting to drop I think she may have been bred later in August or September. I moved her with my gelding early October of last year so it's pretty likely she could've been bred in September. Our pasture here stayed green all winter and they got quality hay and feed so I doubt if this was "grass belly" it would've not developed before the end of May, and all that sudden. She was running and playing quite a bit up until about a month, and they roam 6 acres so it's not like she's been standing stagnant stuffing her face lol. 

The pictures added to the other signs I'm seeing paints a fairly clear picture. For me anyways.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

I'll see if I can find a picture of him. He's really well mannered for a stud, honestly. Great confirmation and temperment. I really like him as a horse in general.


----------



## Danielle Garza (Jul 19, 2019)

Checking in for an update  how is she doing?


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Danielle Garza said:


> Checking in for an update 🙂 how is she doing?


Still pregnant 😕 very pear shaped, laying down several times a day. She did whinny in her sleep this morning, that was pretty cute 🙂


----------



## thedartmoorlover (Jul 23, 2019)

Reading this forum for a while 🙂 how's she doing?


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

thedartmoorlover said:


> Reading this forum for a while 🙂 how's she doing?


Still getting bigger. Here's some comparison photos:

April 30th
May 27th
July 15th
Today (July 29th) so, y'all tell me lol. Definitely leaning away from "grass belly" as she's been on green pasture since October (wintered on hay and feed as well). 

Any day now, old girl.... Any day lol.


----------



## thedartmoorlover (Jul 23, 2019)

Aww. Let's hope it will be a beautiful healthy foal!


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

That's really all I can ask for! Healthy mama and baby.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I hate to ask this....but are you feeding her like horse in the last trimester of pregnancy? She is so pretty, but looks quite young and still growing herself. You don’t want her robbing her own body of those necessary nutrients that SHE still needs to grow!


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

She is on lush green pasture. If I give her anything else, she'll founder/colic. She's done growing, and has good body composition - appropriate fat deposits, ribs are only just now slightly visible bc her belly hangs so low, etc. A dry lot is not an option. If she were stalled I would do something different, but she is perfectly fine how she is. There's more grass out here than they could possibly eat between the two of them. Good burmuda/timothy mix that stays green year round. They won't even touch hay until around November.

They have mineral blocks, and I worm regularly. There is access to clean water. That should be all she needs.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

They have 6 acres like this, and another 5 behind the cross fence should they ever need it. And this is with us mowing every 10 days or so. It grows faster than they can eat it lol no bare spots. 

She looks small next to my gelding because he's HUGE. Around 17 hands and has a long back (he's TB/arab cross and definitely got his physique from the TB side). She's a bit over 14 and compact. 

I will likely be planting coastal in the early spring but they keep good weight on what's out there.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> First thing you need to do is get that mare in a small area so you can get her handled before the foal arrives. If you think she's feral now, wait until she goes all protective over a foal. Or worse, rejects it but won't let you near it. She'll go roughly 11 months from last cover, so if she's at least 9 months now, you may have about 2 months to go. You need to get her to allow you to catch and halter her, lead her around and then start working on getting her into a stock so she can be examined.



Not to mention, and Dreamcatch will confirm this - if you don't get momma gentled and liking people, she WILL teach that foal to be a huge butthead and a dangerous one at that.


You'll have not one, but two unmanageable horses on your hands.


I've been through this and it doesn't take long at all for momma to set a very poor example for the foal to follow. I'm still trying to get through to Outback, a year and a half later... and momma had to be sold to get her off the place and away from the filly so we could do anything with her - including halter breaking, worming, teaching her to have her feet handled and picked, to treat the horrible rain rot she had last summer/early autumn... There's just a LOT to do with a baby and having a butthead wild as a March hare of a momma trying to bite or kick you the entire time you're needing to handle the foal, letting her baby play hard to get around her, and also picking up her bad habits because she was never gentled OR was abused and mishandled and develops a deep, abiding hate for humans, is a huge huge problem.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

AtokaGhosthorse said:


> Dreamcatcher Arabians said:
> 
> 
> > First thing you need to do is get that mare in a small area so you can get her handled before the foal arrives. If you think she's feral now, wait until she goes all protective over a foal. Or worse, rejects it but won't let you near it. She'll go roughly 11 months from last cover, so if she's at least 9 months now, you may have about 2 months to go. You need to get her to allow you to catch and halter her, lead her around and then start working on getting her into a stock so she can be examined.
> ...


I think maybe you need to go back and reread. She's not halter broke (yet, we're working on it) but so far I haven't really needed one. I can worm her, brush her, pick up feet, etc without her being haltered. 

That whole train of thought went on a runaway track and is not representative of how she is. She comes up to me daily for nose kisses lol she's not untouchable, she's just not haltered. I'm sorry youve had issues with your horse, and I hope it clears up for you soon... But that's not the situation here.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

In fact, she's rather a pest! The trick is getting her to *not* stick her nose in your business and get in the middle of everything. She thinks EVERYTHING is her business and rather quite sweet (when she saw me crying she came over and nuzzled my cheek, and wouldn't leave my side the whole day). She walked up to my pregnant friend and kept her nose on her belly lol SO sweet. 

I'm obviously cautious of how she'll be with the foal, because even the most gentle mares will turn with a newborn on the ground. But I honestly don't think she'll teach the foal to be a pill, because she isn't one. We've spent since October gentling her, and she's friendly with everyone, strangers included - unlike my gelding who is stand offish with everyone but me. She's particularly fond of my dad, which is hilarious because he's very TALL and she's very SMALL. She gets touched daily here, by all of us. A halter isn't going to change that.


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Bas180001 said:


> I think maybe you need to go back and reread. She's not halter broke (yet, we're working on it) but so far I haven't really needed one. I can worm her, brush her, pick up feet, etc without her being haltered.
> 
> That whole train of thought went on a runaway track and is not representative of how she is. She comes up to me daily for nose kisses lol she's not untouchable, she's just not haltered. I'm sorry youve had issues with your horse, and I hope it clears up for you soon... But that's not the situation here.


In my opinion, she might as well be untouchable if you can't get a halter on her and get her to a vet or have a vet come look at her. I'm all for nose kisses and lovey stuff - but if she's bred and carrying a worm load on top of that, I think you better work on the haltering and lead breaking right now. I believe that needs to be your top priority, not kissy kissy. You may have to consider darting her or running her through a chute and having someone slap a halter on her and lead break her the quick and dirty way. Normally, I would avoid that method at all costs, I much prefer a slow build of trust - but since you getting her looked at by a vet should be your immediate, top priority, and in my experience if you can't get a halter on them, vet liability insurance will not cover injury to themselves, their techs, or their equipment, and thus will not even look at them - I'd recommend quick and dirty on the halter be strongly considered here.

FWIW, you can ask anyone here. Sally was lovey dovey and kissy kissy when pregnant too. I spent many an evening soaking up her peaceful company.... then she had Outback and all hell broke loose.

Outback is now wearing a halter and dragging an 8ft lead rope 24/7 in her 5 acre pasture as is Red, a 3 year old filly that wouldn't let us halter her. Red came to us desperately needing to see a vet for a wound that would not heal and could have possibly left her permanently lame. After 3 months of the slow trust build, I paid some punchy kids 2 thirty packs of keystone light to get her haltered the quick and dirty way. She has a brand new outlook on life since then, has been to the vet, and is now being taught to load and back out of the trailer without throwing an ungodly fit. 

I really feel it would be in your best interest to get a firm grip on handling her or you're going to have a real bad time when that foal gets here. She's big enough to hurt you now, and she'll be mean enough to trash you and anyone else that comes near that foal when it gets here if you don't get her gentled real soon.

Good luck.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

I am working on haltering her. Shes wormed every 3 months, no halter needed.

Just to be clear: Ive been working with feral/wild horses for 20 years. Seasoned horseman come to me when they need an untouched horse caught. I didnt ask for input on haltering or training, I asked for input on pregnancy. 

I have picked up her feet, brushed her, wormed her, even scratched her butt ALL WITHOUT A HALTER. If your definition of an untouched horse is simply whether or not theyre halter broke, then you haven't heard about the methods I use. There is an entire training method geared towards NOT using ropes and implements. 

And as far as her "trashing" me....LOL my gelding has at least a foot on her in height and at least 300 lbs on her in weight, and was *actually* dangerous when I got him. Not able to be touched, reared, charged, threatened to kick, actually kicked, you name it. Now hes a lamb, and that took me about 8 months to do, WITHOUT A HALTER. So no, she wont be "trashing" me. Maybe shell get it in her head once to try it, and shell learn the hard way thats the wrong decision.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If I had been paying a trainer to halter and lead a horse of mine for close on a year and they still couldn't do it, there'd be Hades to pay. But you know it all, so good luck.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

Also, I should point out that my gelding IS halter broke, and will put his head in the halter and stand quiet for me to fasten it.

So, "more sand than me"...Ive yet to meet someone who has it. Just because I prefer to go the slow and trusting route so as not to break the trust Ive developed with her doesnt mean I dont know what Im doing. Halter breaking, saddle breaking ,etc doesnt have to be a traumatic experience. Something I learned from an 80-something year old horseman many years back. Something you all can keep in mind.

You wanna keep your horses in a slave-master relationship, thats on you. I prefer to keep mine in a mindset of a partnership and wanting to be with me. And in my experience, its worked well for me.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Have you vaccinated her so the baby has some immunity when it’s born? That’s important.


----------



## 279163 (Jun 10, 2019)

greentree said:


> Have you vaccinated her so the baby has some immunity when it’s born? That’s important.


Yes, thanks for asking.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Errr so not sure if I should post or not, but going back to the feed thing I know you are less familiar with the pregnancy side of things and while she does look good right now as someone who breeds sheep and has worked at several horse breeding facilities I think she will go from looking good to looking not good the second that foal comes out. Her weight is fine for where she is- without the foal. Ideally they are heavier then average at this point. She also needs the extra nutrients right now. So "overfeeding" (in a sense) is very important. I saw an admittedly very big mare go from looking even heavier then ideal to looking like a rescue after foaling, she was owned by a vet! It was shocking that it was possible for her to change that dramatically. It's not just the belly it's the topline and everything. On of my sheep, who I was watching closely and feeding extra still did the same thing to me this year. It's nothing to do with your gelding, it's looking at the individual pictures of her.

Of course you don't want her too fat but "maintenance" isn't ideal for her, for now at least. A pregnant horse SHOULD be fatter then a non pregnant horse, not obese but extra weight is important. I would highly recommend starting her on a mare and foal feed, you can continue this after she foals too and the foal can continue getting it as they grow up. If you start her now she can build up some reserves and she will also be used to it when she is nursing and dropping weight so you can up it more quickly then you could if you were gradually introducing it. The extra nutrition and calories can only help. She may have lots of nice pasture but pasture alone doesn't cut it when they are gestating/lactating/growing. So it's not that she's too thin now, it's more of planning ahead and wanting her to have a little extra padding because she WILL lose it. I think scientifically speaking while "5" is ideal on a body scale (and personally I prefer horses in general more of a 4.5/5, fat isn't good!) a broodmare should be more of a 6/6.5. I have had multiple vets refer to my lambs as "parasites" when I wasn't used to it I used to think they were telling me my sheep weren't in good condition (!!) but have come to realize how accurate a description that is!


----------



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

*Thread closed...*
_There will be no updates, sorry._


----------

