# Help



## OoLaurenoO

Top photo is Xena when I got her and now. Bottom photo is Lou Lou looking very pregnant I'll have to grab a photo from when I first got her.


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## JCnGrace

Kudos to you for taking on these two mares!

Sorry I can't really help you out on any of your questions. Like you already know the bagging up depends on the mare. I've bought a couple of emaciated pregnant mares before but they were in the early stages so I was able to get them in better condition before they foaled. I've seen pictures of skinny mares at rescues that have had healthy but thin foals so it can happen.


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks for your reply. Im hoping since she was fat and healthy before the last people bought her hopefully the foal got most of its initial developing done while she was in good condition.


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## stevenson

I don't think the horse could drop that much in a month and a half. That Pali mare is really thin.
I hope the foals will be okay. I would try to get a mare and foal vitamin for them. I would have the colostrum on hand for the foals. I have never heard of them getting to much. 
Good luck, hope you have nice babies and no complications. I had 2 thin preggies years ago , one baby died and one lived. People need shot for starving animals. and hung for starving pregnant ones.


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## OoLaurenoO

This is a photo of her before they got her. It was sent to me by the woman who organised the sale. She has dirt on her nose in this photo, I had to look pretty closely because she is basically unrecognisable but its definitely her. You can see the scar on her back leg, the same blaze, the same hooves. Pretty crazy.


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## OoLaurenoO

Should probably include a picture where you can see her legs! This photo was only taken a couple of days ago. Excuse her scruffiness, she won't let me touch her very much. I've found if I sing I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts she is much calmer. I suspect that has more to do with keeping me from holding my breath and frightening her with my tense body language!


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## OoLaurenoO

And thank you I will ask the vet about mare and foal vitamins. I was already thinking about getting some colostrum in case the foal is to weak to suck.  Still waiting for the vet to call me back.


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## anndankev

What a great heart you have for taking these two mares in. Is that Lou Lou in the background of the oldest picture? Xena's expression and wide forehead remind me of my gelding.

I hope Endiku finds your thread, she worked with a mare in foal that looked as poorly as Xena or maybe even more so. And then twice rescued the filly, eventually placing her in a nice home. The mare survived the birthing, but unfortunately not much longer as I recall. 

It must be a great comfort for her in her fearful state to be with Lou Lou, and if they all pull through, a happy bunch you will have. 

Hoping for the best, will be watching for news and pics.


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## OoLaurenoO

Yes thats Lou Lou. She has been fantastic helping to settle Xena. They are in separate yards but right next to each other and Xena often watches on while I'm giving Lou Lou a good brush or practicing putting the halter on and off her. I have two other boys at home, a brumby (Who is the quietest most amazing horse I have ever known.) I'm hoping to use him as a nanny down the track to use when I wean the foals. And Big Red, a 17h thoroughbred who is a monster. When I bought Lou Lou home she wouldn't talk to them at all. Wouldn't even acknowledge their existence. As soon as I unloaded Xena (A week later) Lou Lou was screaming at her across the yard. They very rarely leave the fence line between them. When I bought Xena home all she did was eat and lie down and sleep. Lou Lou stayed right by her the whole time. It breaks my heart what these poor girls have been through I hope she makes it through the foaling ok. Even if she does though we will still have to revisit the foot to see if she will even be paddock sound..


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## OoLaurenoO

This popped up pretty much over night. Went from empty but present to this! Xena's is actually a bit fuller, smaller but fuller. She doesn't really appreciate the concept of a camera shoved under there to have a look!


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok, some more pictures!! Sorry you must think I'm being a bit of a crazy person but hey!! Also sorry for the horrible photo quality. And the fact that she has a big poo stain on her side. She likes to eat sleep and poo all in the one small area of her yard. I have hosed her off this morning but hey! Anyway, the poorly lit photos are ones I took the other night. Maybe a week ago? And then the daytime photos I took this morning. You can see that her belly has much more of a v shape, and that from the back her belly is less visible. I have some more yards being built off some of my stables early next week. I am hoping she will hold on till after they are up to have her foal. Any opinions? Do you think she will foal soon or do I still have some time?


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## FrostedLilly

Wow, I'm so sorry to read about these mares, but happy they've found you. She's looking pretty close. Hope things go well.


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## stevenson

Xena will be pretty , looking at that photo you got from the woman who organized the sale. 
Mares need the extra feed the last months of the pregnancy , so hopefully the month of starving will not have a bad outcome for the foal. I would up Xena's calories with some corn oil on the feed, and the mare and foal vitamin . I have seen some pretty skinny mares with foals. 
Looks like Loulou is bagging up. Could be a couple weeks to a month or so. When they drip the wax pencils out the nips, then it is usually a matter of hours to days.


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## OoLaurenoO

Check her out!! Going to go a nice gold colour when she loses her winter coat. She's really packed on some weight even in just a couple of days. The vet said not to be to worried about the foal. If she's got enough reserves to be putting on weight and bagging up she must have enough good stuff going to the foal too. Now just have to make sure she's good enough to get through labor and hopefully mum and bub will be ok.


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## stevenson

that is a huge difference ! She looks like she will shed a very pretty color. 
You will need to be sure to post some foal pics!
are you located in Australia since you stated they are getting ready to shed into summer coats ? or did I misread that ..


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## OoLaurenoO

Yes I am in Australia.  I was told the stallion that was running with their mob was a chestnut. No guarantees he was the father though. I wonder what colour the foals will be.


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## SunnyDraco

So glad you saved these mares and giving them all the care and help from the vet that they so needed. 

As for foaling advice, from the first start of developing a bag it can be an average of 6 weeks before foaling. Some mares follow rules, develop at a modest pace and wax before finally foaling. Seems that most mares make up their own rules for foaling.

Last year my sister's mare had a little filly, it was the mare's third foal but the previous two foals were before my sister owned her. This mare was hardly halter broke when my sister bought her, she spent a few years training and breaking her in before breeding her. Even though this mare had had a few years of handling and training, she would not let you squeeze her teats to see if you could express milk or if it had made changes from premilk to milk ready for baby. For weeks she had barely any swelling in her udder, then she suddenly blossomed into a full looking bag for a small A cup mare. She had a sneaky delivery very shortly after, 11pm check and she was contently eating, a couple hours later and she had a filly standing and nursing. She had no signs other than her bag looking filled to the point that her teats looked stretched with their expansion. No wax, no dripping milk, no rules followed. Even though she would kick you into the next town if you wanted to handle her teats when she was in her last trimester, she had no issues letting her foal nurse... Although she would squeal loudly when baby latched on, it apparently pained her but her mothering instincts overrode her desire to punish the baby for causing such discomfort. 

Another mare on the forum spent weeks fully bagged and looking like a dairy cow with her giant udder, milk completely in, and her owner spent weeks with no sleep before the foal arrived. 

Basically, you could have a baby anytime now, all guess work. If you are able to get milk expressed, that will be your biggest aid but still no guarantees. Just a couple drops can tell you if the milk is ready for baby, if you are willing to taste it. Milk goes from a bitter to bland to sweet when it is ready for baby. This can take weeks, days or hours. Then there are mares that have their milk come in during delivery. 

Good luck and keep us updated. We are obsessed with pictures, especially those with baby bellies and then their adorable foals. 

As for the condition of foals growing within malnourished mares, the mares were well cared for until a 6 week period of misfortune. Babies take nourishment from their mothers before their mother can receive nourishment which is why a thriving foal can bring down their mother's condition. If a mare is pregnant and nursing, nutrition first goes to the foal growing inside, then to a nursing foal and the mother is last to receive what she digested. The negative effects on the foals will be minimal, your biggest concern will be the mother's condition and nutrition as she is gets the leftovers of her foal's needs. 

As far as color possibilities, if the sire was chestnut, your options are:
Palomino mare: 50% chestnut 50% palomino 
Buckskin mare: black, smokey black, bay/brown, buckskin/brownskin, chestnut, palomino
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TessaMay

Subbing. 

Hope they all come out of this well!


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## clumsychelsea

Definitely interested to see how this progresses. They are both beautiful looking mares and will be even more so when they're up to snuff. Best wishes for both mums and babies!


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## squirrelfood

Don't borrow trouble till you need it. Very often a thin mare will have a perfectly healthy foal because everything she got went to that foal. Just keep feeding her as best you can. Senior fed can help; you can feed quite a lot of it, and it's usually higher in fat.


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## dbarabians

I agree with the senior feed. I had a rescue that was very thin and in foal she had a healthy filly with no problems . a complete senior feed in the last 2 months of pregnancy put weight on fast. Shalom


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## OoLaurenoO

Here you go! Look at the change. First photo is a few days after I got her, second photo is from yesterday. Ive been feeding her a complete breeder pellet and a bit of high gain which is just a weight gain food. She doesn't really like hard feed though so she doesn't eat much. I mix it up with a bit of molasses and water which she likes a bit better but still doesn't routinely eat it all. Most of the weight gain I think is from the hay. She eats soooooo much hay!!!


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok more pics!! Because I'm working the weekend so have today and tomorrow off and I can't help but obsess. The split photo, the one on the left is her udder not yesterday but the day before. The one on the right is her udder today. It hasn't changed dramatically but it is definitely a bit fuller. The totally dodgy photo is Xena's udder. She's to worried to let me get a better picture but her udder is a bit rounder too.


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## OoLaurenoO

Anyone know if I can post videos here? I've got a cracker video of Lou Lou's baby absolutely rolling around in there!


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## Dustbunny

I think you are doing a remarkable job!!!!!!!

The only thing I can add to all the advice you have been given is KEEP SINGING!!


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## OoLaurenoO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvFxccCEJX4&feature=youtu.be Hopefully this works... It was moving like this for a good five minutes on and off!


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## stevenson

they are really baggin up now. Xena does not look like she needs a ton of weight now. 
She should be making some good milk for that baby  
They are both so cute. you could have some Halloween babies , USA halloween


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## EponaLynn

Wow, I'm so glad they found their way to you!

The change in Xena is absolutely astounding, good job!

I'm no expert but it seems that the nipples start to point outwards (for the foal to drink) when they get really close or are ready to foal.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well, theres a massive thunderstorm flogging down here at the moment. The yards are a river, I left a window open in my car and now its full of water. (Literally) This is the first rain we've had in weeks and I haven't seen it this heavy in months. Just my luck someone will spit out a foal tonight in the poring rain and mud in my half finished yards. At least I would be able to see using the lightning strikes!!  Heres hoping not. :/


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## BellaMFT

Wow they look great! You have done a nice job with these mare. I can't wait to see baby pictures.


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## stevenson

hoping you don't get a rain baby. Do have a barn you could put them in for the storms ?
i do not get lightening very often here, and it scares me. I love to watch it.


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## OoLaurenoO

Good news! No storm babies. Lou Lou's udder is half the size it was yesterday so I'm optimistic that the new yards will be up before the babies arrive. I have stables but no real barn. The stables are really to small for them to foal down in. They could do it but I would worry about them lying down to close to the wall.. They are plenty big enough to put a mum and bub out of the rain though. The new yards are being built of existing stables, so should be a much better place for them to foal. The yards they are in now do have stables. They could get out of the rain if they wanted but the stables are at opposite ends of the yards and slightly out of sight of each other. It seems they would prefer to stand in the blazing sun or poring rain right next to each other. Go figure.


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## EliRose

Good on you for taking in these mares, you seem to be doing wonderfully with them! I wish you healthy foals and healthy mamas once all is said and done


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks for the support guys I'm hopefully all will go well. Ive got the vet on standby though if I need him lol. They are both going well. The split photo is Lou Lous udder over four days. Sorry the photos are blurry, my phone just wouldn't co-operate! You can see though that its not as full as before. The photo of her is right before the storm so the colours really popped.  

Xena is going really well too! I had to give her a smack today. I was giving her a good scratch along her neck which she was loving! She turned around and was rubbing her muzzle along my arm as I was scratching. Anyway, she gave me a little nip. Although she was only trying to scratch me back I felt I needed to make it clear teeth on skin was not ok even though there was no malice in it. I gave her a baby tap on the neck and she flipped out. Totally flew off backwards and then stood shaking and snorting. I was expecting the reaction so it was no big deal. I just acted like nothing every happened and picked back up right where I left off scratching away. She calmed back down and relaxed back into the scratch after a minute or so and I finished off on a good note. I haven't pushed her to far really. I only ask her to do things I know are achievable. Im hoping that the more I can avoid those massive outbursts the less likely she will resort to extreme measures every time she gets a little fright. She's also getting a lot better on approach. I have a rope attached to her halter so I can catch her. I would normally have to stand on the end of the rope and pick it up. Once she felt the pressure I could approach without her carrying on like a froot-loop. (Much) 
I can now walk up slowly and reach out and grab the rope below her halter. PROGRESS!! I will need to be able to remove the rope when the baby is born. (Don't want it getting caught up in the rope) Anyway. I feel like Lou Lou will have a colt and Xena will have a Filly!  Anybody else want a guess?


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## Foxhunter

As she looked well prior she should be OK. If she has a lack of milk problem then feed her two heaped tablespoons of cocoa powder three of four times a day. This is an old remedy but it really works. 

As for telling hen they will foal by their bag it is never easy with unknown mares. Some old brood mares will start to bag earlier than others. Waxing is a good sign but not all wax up a lot and they can knock it off easily. 

When they start to go saggy around the tail and the vulva starts to slacken and possibly bulge is slightly more defining. 

Good luck to you - talk about buy two and get two free - as if horses are ever "free!"


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## OoLaurenoO

I've not heard of the cocoa powder before but thanks! I will give it a try if I have any problems.  Heres some progress shots of Lou Lou. Her udder is no bigger. She's still pretty apprehensive of me so the chances of me looking at her vulva are pretty slim. I did get a look this arvo but haven't really seen it before so have nothing to compare it to. It didn't look tight, but she has had foals before and it definitely didn't look super floppy. She's been doing lots of holding her tail up in the air but doesn't even look particularly uncomfortable. The babies have both been super active over the last couple of days to which has been very cool!


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## JCnGrace

She looks way too happy for it to be anytime soon. A couple of sure signs from my mares were standing around looking peed off (ears back and nose wrinkled up) and no detection of foal movement for the last few days.


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## stevenson

I think it is the angle of the pic and thats why the udder looks smaller. 
do you know what size of horse they were bred to ? they may have a couple more months.
What was the Vets guess? You have done a lot of work with them, but you have a lot more to do. I hope you can get them safer to handle so if they do have foaling problems it wont be risky to them ,you or the Vet.


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## OoLaurenoO

I have no idea what they were bred to really.. They were mustered up in a mob and sold off the truck. I've been told that the stallion running with them was a chestnut and a bit bigger then them but not by much. That's all I know really. A month ago when I first got them the vet estimated 1-2months for Lou Lou and three months for Xena. He said however that at this stage it was just a rough guess based on head size of the foal and that it could be less. He also said that he suspected Xena would be less and that the foal would be smaller due to malnourishment. Anyway! Both girls are the same this morning, the yards will be finished by the end of the week (hopefully) I'm not really worried about the foaling before then. I am confident that Lou Lou would be ok if I had to help her foal. She has really come a long way. I can rug her now (not leaving it on obviously just putting it on for her experience really) doing up the back straps is fine, rubbing all down her legs she is also perfect. I can lift up her tail, she's a bit uncomfortable but not to bad. I can't really get around there to have a look at her vulva though. I would need a second person to hold her front end so that if she did decide to flip they could direct her back legs away from me lol. But Xena... If anything goes wrong with her foaling I'll be screwed. She's still a basket of unpredictable nerves. Massive progress around her head. I can catch her without problems now and I feel like im not far away from being able to take off the rope I use to catch her followed by the halter (I hope) She's still a total disaster zone around those legs though, and although calm when I pick up the yards she still always has her face to me. Just to make sure I don't turn into a mountain lion or something and catch her unawares. I'm thinking I'm going to have to bite the bullet and introduce a stick with a rag on the end to start touching that back end and legs. I am a bit worried though about her hurting herself. She will throw herself through anything to escape when she gets frightened. Including walls and fences. It will be easier when the yards are up and I have a safer fence for her to hit up against if she flips out.


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## GallopingGuitarist

Kudos to you for taking them in! I have no advice as I have never gotten a horribly malnourished horse. But they are looking tons better now than they did in the first pics! 
I'm excited to see pics of the foals!


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## JCnGrace

Anytime I've had one sensitive to the touch I use a brush. I've yet to come across a horse who doesn't like to be brushed. I start with a soft-medium bristle brush and use firm strokes. Start along the underside of the neck and chest (seems like a favorite spot), move to the sides of the neck. Stop, that's a good first lesson. Next day start the same but add the shoulders. Every day I move back a little further. If they get nervous about a spot then move back to where it's comfortable for them and a minute or so later back to the ticklish spot. Keep going until that spot is no longer ticklish and then move on. 

Once you get to the flank area and beyond pay very close attention to body language so that you can get out of firing range if need be. Soft, soothing voice and firm touch. Don't be nervous or tentative. When you can brush them all over start again and hold the brush in a way that your fingers also make contact. Next step brush stroke followed by a hand stroke on the same area the brush covered. Keep going until you can do this over the entire body. By the time you get to this point they should be desensitized to your touch.


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## OoLaurenoO

That's pretty much exactly what I have been doing but I've just been using my hand. She loves being scratched on the top of her neck so I've just been using long motions up the neck then down the back a bit, back up the neck then down the shoulder a bit ect ect. I've gone from a horse you couldn't touch to a horse that will let me touch her shoulders, back and sides. Still very uncomfortable on the legs and the bum but allows the contact which then immediately slides back up across her itchy scratchy spot (as I call it) on her neck. She's getting there but it's a slow road. This morning she seriously considered giving me a good nip. As I was rubbing my hand down a bit lower on the rib cage she spun her head around to tell me to get out of it. I was already progressing back up towards the neck and she didn't actually bite which was good. Otherwise she would have copped a smack and she's just so over the top with her reactions. I went back to the same spot a couple of times. A bit of a flick of the ears and a swing of the head but nothing more. She will allow me to touch her further on the near side then the far side but hey! Baby steps.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well Xena was a pretty cranky little vegemite this evening. Lots of holding her tail up, swishing it around and pacing the fence line. She was picking at her dinner but not really eating it like she normally would. It looks like her udder has changed quite a lot through the day but it was dark when I got home from work so it was impossible to get a good look. Fingers crossed bub is just rolling around and giving her trouble. She still doesn't even really look in foal so the baby must be pretty small in there.


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## Drifting

Hoping for a safe foaling for both mares!


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok! No new news really. Both girls are doing great!! No change, if anything they look further away from foaling which is good news for me. (More handling and more weight gain.) I want those babies nice and strong when they come out. Lou Lou went out into a paddock this morning while the yards are going up. I caught her this afternoon without much trouble and gave her a scratch then let her go. Tomorrow I think I'll give her a bath. Xena is also really coming along. She LOVES her neck being scratched. So much in fact that she just about puts her head between her front legs and looks like she will drop down onto the ground in enjoyment. I've been using it as a technique to push her past her comfort zone. I can touch her all over her back, on the top part of her bum, about half way down her ribs, and her shoulders now. Any new area touched is promptly followed by a 'good girl' and a nice neck scratch. I have also started to teach her to step away from pressure. I came across the problem of when scratching her she would press and step in towards me, pushing me back. Obviously I didn't want that and I had no way of asking her to get out of my space without her flipping out. The first couple of times when she felt the slight pressure she flew off backwards but it didn't take her long to realise if she made the tiniest move away she got a good neck scratch. We have only had a couple of sessions but she's moving her front legs away pretty consistently now. Just a tiny bit but once again. Baby steps! You can see her beginning to think about things a lot more now. When introducing new things or asking something different she's beginning to actually try to puzzle it through as oppose to immediately trying to get the hell outta there!! I know it doesn't sound like much but its such massive progress for this girl!!!!!! I'm very proud of her.  Heres a couple of pictures of the yards, they started going up today! They will be meshed in with horse safe diamond mesh. I'm also going to pick up a steel panel round yard which I found really cheap second hand!! (Well, really cheap for what it is.) I've been planning on getting the yards and the round yard for almost seven years now so it does feel good to finally get them under way.


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## Foxhunter

You sound as if you are doing a great job. Well done.

If you can beat a halter on her and hold her, make a hand. Get a bamboo pole, stuff a glove and tape it onto the pole and use that to scratch the untouchable places. When she objects just continue as of nothing had happened. 

It is going to be important she doesn't mind her belly and udder being touched, some maiden mares will not let the foal suckle because they are to touchy especially when the udder is full.


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea she has a halter on and I can keep a hold of her for the most part... The problem is her reaction when she gets a fright. I've worked with quite a few horses over the years working on studs and with my own horses. This girl has the most severe reaction I have come across. When I first got her she would literally try and climb the fence in the yard when I went in to feed or pick up the poo. If you are holding the rope and she got a fright she would throw herself off backwards or side ways so fast she just about threw herself over backwards. It didn't matter if there was a fence behind her, or a wall, she would just throw herself into it. Thats part of the reason I am having the yards built with three thick rails. Although we haven't had any serious episodes recently I'm sure they will come up again sooner or later. This mare has no regard for her own safety when she is frightened, and so obviously she can be pretty dangerous if I am not careful. Her saving grace is that she is small. (Only about 13.1-13.2 maybe) If she was a big horse I wouldn't be able to deal with her. Its not that she's nasty, she is just terrified of the universe. Every little thing with this girl got the same reaction. 'Its the end of the world and I'm about to die.' I had a couple of people tell me to just 'tie her to the fence and bag her down.' Now I have bagged down quite a few horses. Its great I'm a massive fan. No way in the world would I even consider it with this girl at this stage. She's just not ready. I am hopeful to introduce the stick with the hand (For those hard to reach places) But at the moment I am just trying to teach her that not everything is the end of the world and that if she does get a fright she doesn't have to react like there is a lion about to devour her at any second. Not that you can blame her. She has spent the last 8 or so years running wild, then she was mustered up, flogged onto a horse float, taken to suburbia and put into a cement yard with no shelter and no food, had her family group taken away and was starved and flogged for six weeks. She's pretty determined that people are the root of all evil and that it would be better to die trying to escape then to hang around and ask questions. All that is changing now finally. I fell like she hates me less.  On the up side for me she has definitely foaled at least once before going off her udder, and considering her age and the fact that she has been running wild with stallions she probably had quite a few. She's still alive so mustn't have had any serious problems foaling previously. Oh yea, and she has a kick like lightening although she hasn't kicked out in a couple of weeks. She's a tough nut! She will get there.


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## Foxhunter

I do understand what you are going through - been there done that and got the Tshirt!

Make the hand, have the halter on her and use the hand just resting and scratching her. Don't try to stop her moving nor to corner her. If you stand by her shoulder and put the hand on her belly she will probably shoot forward, let her, just keep her on a circle. Try not to take the hand off, don't sooth talk her, just let her go round until she stops and then reward with her scratches.
She has to face her fears, doing this will get her to do so without getting rough or nasty. She will soon catch on that the hand issues scratches even if it is not on a human arm!


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks for your advice. I have been avoiding the use of the hand because she has a real fear of whips and sticks and I haven't wanted to push her to fast but I think you are right. I'll have some time tomorrow so I will start to introduce it and go from there! I'm not sure that she will shoot forward though, I suspect she will go back or away and back. She doesn't like it when I am at the shoulder or further behind although she tolerates it now. If I walk around the yard for example, no matter how far away I am she always turns in a circle so she can keep both eyes on me at all times. Anyway!! I will let you know how I go.


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## Foxhunter

She doesn't have to see it as a whip. Just keep it hidden from her to start, let the pole hang down and just hold the hand, you can start with a short pole and lengthen it. When she accepts it at a reasonable length then you can use it behind her quarters to get her to move forward rather than running back.

You are doing a great job, obviously she is going to be startled but it is important that you just keep the hand on her until she just settles. 
As I said I have had some that were similar to this poor filly. One particularly bad TB filly, never knocked around but easily upset, was very difficult to get to accept anything. She would fight anything she didn't like or understand usually by kicking out though teeth and front feet would also come into play! 
I used the hand, and just put it wherever let her fight it, just kept a hold on her halter and let her circle, go sideways or backwards, the hand stayed somewhere in the region I had placed it and she finally realised that the only one who was wasting energy was her. 
The important thing for you to do is to remain totally calm and not allow your heart rate to change. To be positive at all times.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well I took your advice and went ahead with the stick/hand. It actually went amazingly well. Turns out she is much happier with a stick touching her then actual human contact. I was able to attach a plastic bag to the end, rub it all over her, under her belly, around all her legs, shake it around in the air. Obviously she didn't stand like a log but there was minimal stress she accepted it amazingly. I was very surprised. I gently flicked the lead around her legs, and used the rope to apply some pressure and get her to pick up her front feet. I also did some work getting her to move away (Calmly) and go in a circle in both directions. Doesn't a round yard make life so much easier!! Once I went all over her with the bag/stick I ran my hand over her again. Lots of trembling where my hand touched her but I was able to get further down her front legs then before. I'm feeling much more confident that when bub comes mum isn't going to totally freak out every time I go anywhere near them. The yards are well under way too. Hopefully should be done by the weekend.


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## anndankev

^^ This is Xena, not Lou Lou, right?

By the way, there are no pics yet on this page 6


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## Foxhunter

I am glad it is going well. 
I would not use a polythene bag, cannot see the point. The hand if stuffed firmly is like a human hand, and this is what she has to get use to.

All in all you have made brilliant progress, long may it continue!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Yes this is Xena. Lou Lou's progress is just as good. She didn't have any handling so has been very accepting of everything. She's been really easy. Just need to keep building up her confidence a bit more.  I'll be working on making a stuffed hand soon. Hopefully this arvo. I started out with. Piece of rag, decided to use the plastics So it would make a bit of noise. I'll have to go searching for an old glove this arvo.


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## egrogan

Wow, just stumbled on this and read straight through. Glad I got here before the babies did! Looking forward to seeing their arrival.


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok heres some pictures as requested!  Both girls udders have gone down again. They are very loose now. Xena actually looks less pregnant now. Maybe she's just growing into her belly.  I had another really good handling session with both of them this arvo. Xena has really started to turn around. This arvo when I went to catch her she approached me on her own to be caught. Felling very proud of them both, they are doing really well. The yards are almost done, one more to go up and then just have to mesh them. I'm feeling much more prepared for the bubs. They will probably make me wait forever now.


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## OoLaurenoO

Help if there was actually pictures!  Having trouble uploading them. I'll try and get some pics of the yards up soon.


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## OoLaurenoO

Pretty snazzy!!


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## anndankev

Looking really, really good.

Lou Lou is just soooooo pregnant. 



PS Hey, is one of the pics of Xena flipped or something?


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## SummerShy

Omg that buckskin is sooo pregnant! I admit I skimmed half these pages so remind me when they're each due, please? 

You've done a wonderful job, and this is exciting to watch!


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## TessaMay

Whoa, talk about belly down to the knees on the buckskin! Hopefully she pops soon :lol: 

The paddocks look really nice. Love the fencing you used, looks super sturdy.


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## OoLaurenoO

Sure is. I flipped it so it was easier to see the before and after photo. Not that it is hard..


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea I figured i should make it as strong as I could in case I had crazy mums and bubs in there trying to escape me. Unfortunately I don't know due date. Only had these girls a bit over a month, previous owners only had them six weeks and before that they were running wild. Going off the vets estimation Lou Lou is due any time from now to a monthsish and Xena is due in a month or twoish.


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## rav3nb1rd

Good job with these guys! 

After they have their babies are you planning on training them to ride?


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## OoLaurenoO

I hope to. Xena is lame in her front off side and hind off side. The vet has checked them but said due to her needing such heavy sedation to look at the legs it wasn't worth the risk to her and the foal to try and further access or treat at this stage. Need to wait until she has had the bub. Hopefully by then she won't need as much sedation anyway.


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## OoLaurenoO

Couple more pics!! **** computer won't let me upload them very well. Its being super slow. Check out Xena! She's a different horse now.


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## JCnGrace

Both are looking much healthier. GOOD JOB!


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## Dakota23

They are both so gorgeous! I hope the babies come out nice and healthy! Those girls are so lucky to have you!


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## WSArabians

What a fantastic job you are doing!! They look fab!


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## OoLaurenoO

Couple more pics. Just cause I can!!  No real change that I can see. Babies still look like they have some cooking to do.


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## Prisstine

They look awesome now. You should be so proud of yourself for saving them!


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## Nikkibella

Just read this whole thread waiting for my students to tack up. You have done miracles with these horses! I mean look at Xena!!! Wow, I'm so happy to see the progress. Keep up the good work and all the awesome pictures 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

More progress.
Big day for Xena. I took her rope off today and replaced it with a short one (actually half a back strap cut short) now she can walk around without that rope dragging between her legs.  still have to be a big gentle when approaching her but can catch her with minimal trouble. Both their udders are changing again. They are hanging lower now. Still don't look tight but you can see Lou Lou's teats are hanging straight down.  I have them out in the yard together now that they have both lost their long ropes. Lou Lou went and found a tree and set about rubbing her bum for a good few minutes. I can lift her tail and look at her vulva now. I'm not sure if her tail is looser or if she's just more relaxed around me now and will let me lift it up without trouble.. Can't look at the colour of her vulva yet but she is getting better every day. I'm anxious to get the mesh up on the fences. Hopefully they will be done by tomorrow or Wednesday.


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## Elana

When you see wax on the teats you are real close to foaling. Note two that while a horse has two teats they have two openings in each teat.. and the horse actually has 4 quarters from with she produces mile.. and 4 sphincters and 4 streak canals etc. Just like a cow in that respect. 

These two horses are looking really good now. That buckskin has been down this road before from the looks of how she is carrying the foal.


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## rav3nb1rd

Just curious, but why do you keep their leads on them? Easier to catch....?


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep. When I first got them there was no way you would get your hands on them without a lead to grab first. (Or step on as it mostly went) I would have liked to get them off sooner but wanted to avoid going backwards into the running around trying to escape phase. While it hasn't been ideal I didn't have a great yard setup when I first got them, (they were safe but large which made it hard) so didn't really have a choice. Anyway! They are both so much better now so should be both out in the paddock halterless soon.


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok I think my sleepless nights are drawing close. Lou Lou's tail is definitely looser now. Its much easier to lift it up and move it around. She was looking very uncomfortable tonight, standing with her ears flat back in the middle of the yard. She was also stretching, arching her back right up. Poor girl. Xena had some little droplets on her teats tonight, she was also pretty unhappy. I'm not sure if its milk or wax. I got a photo (sorry its pretty blurry but you might be able to just see the droplet on the near side teat.) I chucked in a photo of the yards.  Where they are used to be one big yard so you can see how it was a bit difficult to catch them.. Taken a big chunk out of my savings but hey!! You gotta do what you gotta do.  Anyway, Xena doesn't even really look pregnant yet (Aside from the udder) So I hope the baby is ok. It must be tiny.. Stressful times!


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## Cielo Notturno

Subbing! I too want to know how they'll do with their foals.

The pics of Xena when you brought her home are awful :-( it looks almost like a miracle that you managed to put some weight on her in this short time.


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## OoLaurenoO

Nearly done!!! Xena's udder went down through the day today but it has a droplet of milk back this evening. Not sure what she's doing but I'm guessing it won't be long. The mesh is going up tomorrow and then it will just be a bit of tidying up the edges of the stables and making sure there aren't any sharp edges and vwalla!


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## Drifting

Those yards look really nice. Can't wait to see the babies : ) Hoping for healthy deliveries!


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## EquineBovine

Subbing! Good luck!


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## Iseul

Subbing, just read the whole thing! Kudos to you for taking in these two girls. My mare was a bit better off than Xena when I got her and it's a real struggle to keep weight on her/get it back on. I'm soo glad she wasn't pregnant when I got her, I'd have had not a clue as to what to do!
Can't wait to see these babies!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

I've been pretty lucky in that regard. I just provide the food and they have packed on the weight. Running wild for all those years I guess they are used to living off not much. Just goes to show how starved they were considering how easily they have put it back on.


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## Endiku

Wow wow wow! I wish I had seen this thread much sooner but you have gotten fabulous advice and you are doing everything right. I can't believe how much progress your girls, especially Xena, have made in such a short time. Your new foaling areas are also very nice. Great job with everything!

My only big concern now is that colostrum. Xena looks very good now but she OR Lou Lou could still have problems, even unrelated to ther previous body conditions, so it really is best to have that and an extensive foaling kit available. Were you able to get some? Of course you will also want to have your vet check the foals antibody levels and such, once they actually arrive. If they don't, they MUST have transfusions to survive. 

If for some reason either mama can not or will not nurse, you can bucket feed for about 4-6 weeks, then start adding in pellets and hay. As anndakev mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I had a filly who was orphaned at almost 2 months, but whose mama was very emaciated much like Xena. She was a TB broodmare who had been shut into a racing stall with another large mare for who knows how long, being fed small bits of musty straw. Amazingly she foaled just fine, had a healthy, albeit rather small, filly, and lived for 2 months. Just like Xena she had terrible hooves and an injury, and she stayed lame the whole time we had her despite special shoes and bute. She did not die from her emaciation though, she died from having a stroke. We don't know if it was the strain that set it off or genetics. I think that if she had NOT had a stroke , she would have survived and been pasture sound if treated correctly.

Xena has a lot going for her though. She has bounced back health wise MUCH faster than Sierra (the mare I am taking about), and has had time to become healthier before foaling. I really think she will be completely fine. Sierras filly, Kenzie, did struggle as a foal, and I personally feel like her mamas poor condition may have caused some immunity problems for Kenzie later down the road (Sierras milk was absolutely worthless), but she overcame that and a bunch of other things to become a 15.3hh, rambunctious, perfectly healthy 3 year old. She was socially awkward due to the first people we gave her to socializing her wrong and nearly killing her of neglect, but otherwise you would never know that her mama had been in such poor condition or that she had been orphaned.

Hopefully the babies will arrive healthy as can be. I am amazed by what you have done to help these poor girls out, and now they live like queens! Good luck to you and I can't wait to see the miracle babies!


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep I've already had a few chats with the vet regarding getting some frozen colostrum. He has some on standby for me if I need it. Ive become very attached to both girls but Xena is a real fighter. I hope there is nothing major going on with her leg as she is still VERY lame.  As soon as the baby pops out and is going well we will be sedating her again to have another look and probably take some X-rays. I'm not to stressed about Lou Lou's milk she's in really good condition now. Xena's milk is there and she's looking so much better but still something I will be keeping a close eye on. No more action on the foaling front though. They are both crossing there legs for now.


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## DraftyAiresMum

If someone dropped Xena in my yard, I would definitely not say no! She is absolutely GORGEOUS!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok we must be getting close now!!!! Big changes in Lou Lou's udder. Left pic is from yesterday, right pic is this morning.  I can lift her tail up very easily and move it around. Haven't noticed any significant change to her vulva yet though. Xenas udder is changing too although not as much as Lou Lou's.  I'm thinking I might have babies before the end of the week!


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok still no babies. Can't be long now surely! Xena is finally quiet enough for me to get some udder pics. (Although they aren't great) her bag isn't to big but quite full. Lou lous bag is huge! Still no milk or wax.


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## Yogiwick

Subbing.

They are lovely and have both come very far.

How's Xena's hoof? Do you think it's related?

My trainer has a very nice mare that broke her leg as a 3 year old. The vet recommended just using her as a broodmare and she's been doing that since. When she's not in foal she's dead lame, when she is in foal she's completely sound. Just the hormones. They tried not breeding her for a couple years but it didn't work. I've only ever seen her lame and that was with a huge foal in the last month or so.

I wonder if it's something brought on by the extra weight.


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## OoLaurenoO

I don't think so.... She is pretty much exactly the same lameness as when I got her and she was a bag of bones then. It's no better but no worse. The hoof is growing out really well though.  it's the front foot that's a bit more worrying because there is no signs of damage. The vet check it but because she was so heavily sedated there was no deep pain response.
I think x rays are the next step after the baby comes.


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## Bondre

Just found your thread and read it all. Loulou and Xena have really struck lucky with you! They are looking lovely now, unbelievable how they have thrived on a good diet, love and attention 

I bought an underweight pony called Xena back in March. Fortunately wasn't pregnant (she shared a paddock with a stud colt so she could have been), though she gave me a good scare when one day she presented me with an udder that looked 'in business'! Fortunately it was a false alarm. 

Anyway, hugs and scratches from my Xena to yours, and for Loulou too of course. And good luck with the foaling!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Still no babies. Surely won't be long now.. And to think I was stressed the yards wouldn't be done before they arrived! Pfft. Anyway. I'm already stressing about foaling time. I have some rubber conveyor belt and some old cattle yards. I'm planning on lining the race with the black conveyor belt tomorrow. To dangerous for terrified foaling horses now but should be able to make a nice safe crush device so if anything goes wrong I will actually be able to help. Especially with Xena. Lou Lou I think would be ok now. Anyway. Here's some more belly pics cause, why not!


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## OoLaurenoO

And an udder pic!


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## Cielo Notturno

That is a _huge_ belly! I'm checking on this topic like 3 times a day to see if there are any news :lol:


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## cvtexas

This is fun watching. I know the waiting is very stressful. Lou Lou doesn't look quite ready yet. Her belly, as far as I can see from the photos is not pointy as it would be if the baby were in the "exit" position. My experienced mares always stream milk the day or their foaling. Maybe the day before. But every mare is different and every pregnancy is different, as you know! It is pleasant to observe Xena's happy expressions in the photos. Good luck!


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## OoLaurenoO

No, she's still carrying very wide. I was hoping for a weekend baby cause I'm home to observe but alas I'm not feeling that optimistic.. Oh well. Any time for extra handling before the babies are born is good time.


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## stevenson

Those pens look great ! Loulou looks huge.. poor girl. They both look Fantastic now.
Xena looks to have a while to go still, she may just have a small baby, or she could have another few months to go , 2-3 . Lou lou looks like she should pop in about 2 weeks. IMO.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well.... Surprise! No signs last night, checked them at 11, no wax, no change in her bag or her vulva, hanging out with the other mare. Then this morning bam! Like magic.


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## egrogan

Oh hello adorable! How are they doing?? They look quite content
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Mum and bub are doing well. Not sure what sex yet. I think it's a filly though. Went for a big run around the paddock. (Mum didn't want me to touch) anyway I left them be for now I'll go catch them up a bit later and move them into the yards. Placenta was passed and looks good and baby has already been at the milk bar.


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## Cielo Notturno

Wow  I'm so happy that Lou Lou's delivery went well!

Pleaaaaaaaaase more pics!!


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## Blue

Wow! Just found this thread today and read through the whole thing like a book to find the end! Amazing!!!!! That little one is beautiful. Good job for taking these girls on. They look great. Please more pics.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Ermahger!!!!!

Doesn't she look so proud of herself?

What a gorgeous little one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Drifting

So cute!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well here she is! Beautiful little filly. No idea what's going on with her colour. I'm guessing she will be a buckskin. She's nearly white so maybe she will darken once she loses her baby fluff. Anyway mums an absolute champ and is taking good care of her. (So good I had a bit of trouble catching them) but in the yards now safe and sound!


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## Blue

O my gosh, just melts your heart. Very nicely done.


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## JCnGrace

Aaaawe, what a cutie! One down and one to go.


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## KigerQueen

lol in the first pic she is like "See what i made?!" **** SOOOOO cute!!!!


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## DraftyAiresMum

I can't get over how absolutely adorable baby is!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EliRose

Beautiful little thing!! Congrats!


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## OoLaurenoO

**** she's gorgeous!! Xenas bag hasn't changed. It has what looks like swear crystals all over her udder? But it was warm today.. Maybe it's that?


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## sarahfromsc

So happy for you! I have been following the thread (and Theo's too) and am just overjoyed for you! 

Always more pics!


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## cvtexas

Hi ... I'm laughing that the mare fooled us. Beautiful baby. Proud mom. I know you are happy. We're rooting for number two!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well this is Xenas bag. I got up last night at 12 and 2 to check her. Nothing was going on. Yesterday I think she was going to have it!! Walking around with her tail up doing lots of little wees. I'm paranoid now that she won't give me any warning either. I don't mind missing the event... As long as nothing goes wrong! Anyway, her bag filled up at exactly to same time as Lou Lou's. To the day. It's not as big but I don't think she has had as many foals before..


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## Blue

Sending you lots and lots of positive energy for an easy healthy birth!. Keep the info coming.


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## OoLaurenoO

More udder pics. Lou Lou and baby are going super well. She's so beautiful!! I'll grab some more pics of her soon.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Ok. I had them mixed up. I was thinking Xena was the buckskin.

So, if someone dropped LouLou (and baby) in my pasture, I would not say no to them! :lol: I'm a sucker for a nice buckskin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Check out that adorable face!!! Another udder pic from Xena. She was kicking her belly a bit this arvo, maybe she will pop out a suprise bub too.


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## JCnGrace

That face!


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## Hrosec

Wow you have done such a great job with them!! There looking so good and that little baby is soooo cute!!


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## Endiku

AGHHHH THAT BABY <3 You couldn't ask for a cuter suprise! She looks healthy as can be, too.


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## OoLaurenoO

Isn't she just the cutest thing you've ever seen!! Maybe I'm a bit bias.  I've got the day off work today because I'm working the weekend so I'm currently spending my (supposed to be) super productive morning watching Xena do absolutely nothing. Lol. The little bub is doing well. Shortly I'll do a bit of a swap around so Theo can have a play in the big paddock and Lou Lou and Lyra can have a play in the little paddock. Then I'll bring Xena into the round yard and do some more handling work.  fun day playing ponies ahead!


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## Nikkibella

Oh, I've been having a terrible week but this just made me smile  what an ADORABLE baby! (And a proud mama)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep she's enough to put a smile on anyone's face!!! Xena went very well with her handling today. Still not loving that off side. Every time I work with her for the first five minutes it's like she's never making any progress but after that she seems to settle back into it. Check out those muscles! Could they get any more sunken in! I didn't realize how much trust I have built up with these girls. Lou Lou is fine whenever I touch her baby but I was holding Lyra for my dad to have a pat and well! You would think a mountain lion came into the pen. She was snorting and whinnying to her baby. Poor girl. We had a quick pat and she settled down somewhat before we headed out. They seem particularly wary of men so I will have to start sending him out with their food buckets I think.


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## Lexiie

:O
This thread was such a wonderful way to end my night!
How cute they all are!
Such a good job you've done!


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## Yogiwick

I see you have a name, and what a beautiful name  It suits her!


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## EquineBovine

Oh wow! Beautiful! Awesome colour too! Congrats!


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## JCnGrace

I've been thinking of her as Panda because of those black circles around her eyes in that head shot you posted. Now I have to get used to Lyra. Do you know how hard it is for me to knock something out of my thick skull once it's in there?:???:







Just kidding with you.


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## OoLaurenoO

lol Now you've got me thinking panda! I think the black smudges will fade, they already look a little smaller and lighter. I'm so anxious for Xena's foaling. I wish she would just pop it out already! I'm having horrible feelings about a red bag baby. Just because she is still so fearful around her back end I think I wouldn't be able to help at all.  I'll sleep a lot better once its all over!


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## stevenson

she is so cute !


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep she's a beauty!!! Cheaky little ****** already.


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## Blue

I check in frequently hoping for another foal! Hoping all goes well for her. She's had enough hard times.


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## FrostedLilly

I've been quietly lurking and haven't checked this thread in a while. What a cute filly!! Hope the other goes just as well.


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## Cielo Notturno

Oh so little cute thing is Lyra? What an awesome name :-D

Waiting for Xena's foal now!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well we finally have some movement. Her udder really filled up over night. It's been sitting kind of half full looking for just over a week now. Yesterday I noticed her him muscles really sink away. They had been loose before but not like that! Still no wax, but hey. Tomorrow I start my seven days straight of work so if she could wait another week that would be grand however I'm not adverse to having to take a sick day, somewhere right in the middle would be nice.


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## OoLaurenoO

Bum* lol. And yep I named Lou Lou's baby Lyra.  not sure why the name just kind of stuck.


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## cheyennemymare

I started at your first post, and I've read and read until I got here! Lyra is the cutest thing, and Lou Lou and Xena look so amazing! You, OolaurenoO, are an angel to these mares and their foals. Xena is a walking miracle, and Lyra is adorable! Lou Lou looks amazing, and if I ever met you, I think I'd have to give you a hug and tell you what a wonderful woman you are!

You have given four lives a new chance, and have given a foal the gift of life! As you saved Xena and her foal, and Lou Lou. You my friend, are an angel on earth IMO. 

Good luck, and I can't wait to see Xena's foal!


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## KigerQueen

^ You cannot forge the orphaned foal she JUST took in as well ! So she has saved 5 lives


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks guys you have been awesome! It's great to find a place where I can vent all
My thoughts and worries without the nastiness you can find online. I really though Xena was foaling this morning! 5am in the dark I flick the lights on and see her lying flat out in the paddock pushing (or so I thought) didn't want to disturb her to much so I watched from the window for a while. Then she just got up, and lay down again, I went over for a look and she was like 'hey, nothing going on here.' Up she got and went off to eat some hay. She was happily hanging out near Lou Lou and Lyra when I left for work. Tricky girl. Maybe she will go tonight.


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## cheyennemymare

I hope everything goes through with out any troubles with Xena! And I can't wait for more Lyra and Lou Lou pictures! 

(P.S. Your yards look AMAZING!)


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## Cielo Notturno

Just checking if there is any news/ I hope you and the horsies will have a great weak 

I'm eager to know wether Xena's baby is a colt or a filly


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## OoLaurenoO

No new news yet. Xena was laying down this morning. Instead of jumping right up the second I went outside she let me walk to within a few metres before she stood. Her vulva was pushed right out and I could see the inside of it for the first time. Bright pink. Her udder also changed a lot over night. Still full but kind of bumpy now? I'll post a pic. I could see bub moving in the middle of her belly right in front of her bag while she was laying down so at least I know it's alive in there! I'm really hoping for a colt with a bit of colour. I don't have any plans to breed them and I think geldings are better for kids ponies. (Less attitude)  Just my luck I'll get a chestnut filly!! So the udder of the left is from yesterday and the right is this morning.


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## OoLaurenoO

I think she's a bit over it all. Never seen her lie like this before. At least she looks pregnant now! Hopefully bub won't come out to small.


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## egrogan

Poor girl. Hope it's soon!


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## Roman

Read almost the entire thing. Lyra is the most adorable and gorgeous thing ever! (But any baby animals are )

I hope Xena has her baby soon. I know the suspense, still waiting for 4 of our cows to pop (I'm hoping one has twins! ).

What will you be doing for training with the foals?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxhunter

Roman - if a cow has twins and they are a male and female the heifer will never conceive. They look female but for some reason their internal organs are not.

In the UK they are known as Free Martins.


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## Roman

The female calf Fox? I doubt we'd ever breed her but who knows where they go after sale.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

I would like to keep them and break them in. I think they will make nice little kids ponies one day. That's a few years down the track though so we will just have to wait and see how we go.


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## FrostedLilly

My mare lay down a lot like that near the end. The last few weeks, I could find her lying down, sometimes on her side on an almost daily basis. I think the last little bit gets really hard on their legs and muscles so laying down relieves some of that! She looks close!!


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea it doesn't help that she is lame in both her off side legs. Her pastern has swollen up over the last couple of days. On the upside now we can focus on that area as before she has to be so sedated to check her legs that her deep pain response is gone. Keen to get bub out so we can investigate the legs further.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well Theo met the girls today. Luckily he knows enough horse speak to understand what keep the hell away from me means because that's pretty much all they said to him. He had a good fang around though which was good he was getting pretty bored in the small paddock. I've only got one foal safe paddock (even it's not really ideal) so it's been a bit of a juggling act. I didn't put Kye in, I am a bit cautious about introducing him to Lyra and if Xena decides to foal without notice I don't really want a gelding in there. Sorry the pics are so poor, taking them with my iPhone. I threw in another udder pic from Xena. It looks the same from the bottom but it's hanging lower now like Lou Lou's did the day before she foaled. Still no wax or dripping milk. Hopefully soon.


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## SunnyDraco

She can't cross her legs forever
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

I feel like she's going to try!


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## Foxhunter

Sometimes they only produce a little wax and that gets knocked off so waxing isn't always visible. 
She is very close that's for sure. 

When the foals are a little older and more adventurous they will friend up with the outsider and he will be more readily accepted.


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## stevenson

Xena is getting big. After the new babies are around 3 months, the moms should have no problem with the new little guy.


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## OoLaurenoO

I hope so. He spent the afternoon following them around like a lost little lamb. They would let him within ten metres though. Fingers crossed you guys are right and they warm up to him after the bubs are a bit bigger. They are very close nit ATM. I guess we will see! I had a bit of a disagreement with Xena this morning. I had to give her some bute for her swollen leg.... She didn't appreciate my assistance. So keen to get this leg sorted out.....


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## Yogiwick

OoLaurenoO said:


> I feel like she's going to try!


The way she's standing it looks like she is!


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## Blue

Can't wait!


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## DraftyAiresMum

Those pics made my heart ache for poor little Theo. You can just see his "Why?!" look as they chased him away. :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anndankev

He won't be poor little Theo for long.

He'll be a big strong black colt, with at least one little filly to get all goog-ly eyed over.


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## OoLaurenoO

He'll be a big strong black gelding if I have my way! He was a bit snippy with me this morning. Putting his ears back and carrying on. Went to turn his bum to me and received a bit of a tune up. I'm hopeful that both his testicles will have dropped by the time Xena foals. I'll already have the vet out to check her so might as well kill two birds with one stone.


----------



## cheyennemymare

Looks as if Lyra got her some running in with mama! I'm anxious to see Xena's foal! I'm praying everything goes well! Theo is a cute little guy


----------



## egrogan

I so expected to come on here today and find a foal. Hope all is well and she is making progress!


----------



## Blue

egrogan said:


> I so expected to come on here today and find a foal. Hope all is well and she is making progress!


Me too! Hope to hear something very soon.
:clap:


----------



## OoLaurenoO

You and me both but alas. No baby yet. Some big news though!! Yesterday afternoon I was able to pick up Xenas sore front foot!!!! Sort of.. I got it off the ground! This is such massive progress for her so I'm feeling pretty proud of her. Her udder has filled up more now. Can't be long to go!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

I'm kind of hoping for a Friday night baby so I can spend Saturday obsessing over her.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

You can see it's really filled at the back a lot more over night.


----------



## Horseychick87

Subbing. I've read the whole thing so far and I have to say, I think it would make a good book.


----------



## FrostedLilly

Gosh I don't miss this wait! My mare kept her hostage for 359 days, but her belly dropped around day 345, so I was on edge for weeks. 

That's so awesome she let you pick up her foot! You've worked such wonders with these girls. I'm hoping every thing goes well for you all.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Well she was the furthest from Lou Lou I've seen this arvo. (Only about 20 metres away) this is the change in her udder from this morning till this arvo. Maybe tonight? Gotta be soon!!!


----------



## egrogan

Good girl Xena! I know you will be relieved when you can address her lameness issues, giving her your foot is a great sign.

Will continue waiting on the baby...


----------



## Blue

I agree! Huge progress! Lifting her foot for you is awesome! And while pregnant too. She can't possibly be comfortable so her faith in you is an amazing thing! Good job!


----------



## Chevaux

I am so joining this thread -- it reads as good as any novel and I'm counting on a happy ending, Lauren.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Well no baby last night.. But we've got wax this morning!!!! Kind of her to hold off till the weekend for me. I hope she doesn't go while I'm at work though....


----------



## OoLaurenoO

And dripping milk!!! To bad I don't have any of those ph tester strips because I could catch some now!


----------



## Nikkibella

Sounds like baby is coming soon! Cant wait!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny

You win the blue ribbon for the most udderly wonderful photos.
Maybe it will be a Halloween baby!!!!!!!!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

It's Halloween here now so if she has it before midnight it sure will be.  she was very funny this morning. I tried to take a photo over the fence but she wasn't having a bar of it and took off. Plenty of standing with her tail up positioned like she is going to wee but nothing comes out. It's supposed to be hot today so hopefully she shuts up shop until tonight. Over the last week she's dropped a bit of condition across her ribs. Bub must be growing at a massive rate because she is eating soooooo much food. Didn't finish her dinner last night though and not massively interested in finishing her breakfast either.


----------



## DMoon

Sounds like she's ready. Good luck, hope you get a healthy baby!


----------



## cheyennemymare

OH MY GOSH! Xena has the whole Horse Forum in suspense! I'm so ready for her baby! Still praying for you and this mare


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep I'm pretty nervous... I've got someone at home watching her but hanging for the day to be over already. Fingers crossed it all goes well. No sleep for me tonight!


----------



## DMoon

Too bad you don't have marestare, that site is great for live foaling cams - I spent many sleepless nights there watching mares foal lol - I love the suspense and I've foaled out dozens of mares personally over the years, but sitting at home from the comfort of my sofa to watch the mares is awesome too.


----------



## phantomhorse13

subbing.. what a story!! can't wait to see the foal and can't say enough about your taking on these horses. amazing.


----------



## stevenson

looks to be soon, I would say within a couple of days !


----------



## Cielo Notturno

can't wait!


----------



## Blue

I've never had the joy of being involved in a foaling, but it should be very, very soon, right?


----------



## greentree

Alright , Xena, I am going to bed! and want to wake up to baby pictures! OK?


----------



## JCnGrace

Add another to the pins and needles list. Hurry up Xena!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Well I got home from work. No baby yet. She's whipping herself with her tail like a crazy person and can't seem to settle in the paddock. Fingers crossed it comes tonight!


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## OoLaurenoO

Hanging away from Lou Lou, and lots of yawning and pinning her ears back.


----------



## sarahfromsc

Got my coffee, sat down with my tablet, hoping..*sighs* ....guess I gotta wait.

Hoping for the best. And can't wait!


----------



## Foxhunter

They come when they are ready! :lol:

One TB mare I owned was exceedingly private. I bred eight foals from her and she never had anyone see her foal!

One occasion I turned her out, she was due any day, I drove seven miles, as I pulled in to give a lesson so a friend called out to say that Minnie had a foal. 

As I had driven away from the fields I had passed a friends son. He stopped to clear a branch away from a gate entrance and then as he drove to the fields so he saw the mare with a foal. She had spat it out in about 10 minutes of me leaving!
Another time she was at a large stud farm. They had cameras and someone on watch all night. Another mare was in trouble foaling so they were all busy with her. When the drama was over the owner just looked in her stable to see she had foaled! 

That was her way - experienced studs where she went to be foaled and covered were always fooled by her. They would turn her out knowing she was close to then find she had foaled minutes later.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

1am here. No baby yet. Very uncomfortable, pacing the fence, flicking her tail. I think she's waiting for me to go to sleep!


----------



## SunnyDraco

She is likely in active labor, good luck 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## OoLaurenoO

She looks like she's about to bust! I think I just need to leave her alone for a little while. I don't think she appreciates me checking on her.


----------



## Drifting

woo look at that udder! I'd be hiding where she can't see me, she's probably waiting for you to go away


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## OoLaurenoO

I'm in the house, just flick the light on to have a peak then flick it off again. But I suspect she will cross her legs until she thinks I've gone to bed. 2am here. Her udders really blown up even since this arvo. I don't think she can hold out much longer... Surely!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

WE HAVE A BABY!!!! Born at 4.15am.  looks like a little pally with a big white blaze!!!


----------



## Drifting

Wooohoooo!!!! Do you think you caught it just born? Has he/she been up nursing yet? Still wet? Gah I wish it was daylight so you could see better!! How's momma looking?


----------



## DraftyAiresMum

Yay!!!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Definitely made it worth staying up all night!!! Little baby's not on his/her feet yet. Had to retreat away a bit as mum was pretty worried but still watching closely!! Looks to be nice and healthy though.


----------



## TessaMay

Woohoo!!


----------



## Luce73

WHOOHOO!! Go Xena! Have been following this thread closely (read, refreshing several times an hour ) the past few days. So glad momma and baby seem to be doing ok! Cant wait for better pictures in the morning


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Me either. Keen to see it in the light. Also pretty keen to be able to stop calling it it! I'll wait till it's up and had a good feed then I think I'll try and catch a couple of hours sleep. Looks to be prettying a dead ringer to mum blaze wise. Super cute!!! It took literally less then a minute to push out once her waters broke. All that stressing about a red bag delivery was for naught. (Luckily)


----------



## Foxhunter

Well done you! 

Thank heavens you got her when you did. I'm pretty certain she wouldn't have had such an easy time if you hadn't.


----------



## Chevaux

How much longer do we have to wait until it's light where you are? Where I am it is just past noon.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Sorry it's such poor quality. Suns only just coming up here. Bub was up in 45 mins, still hasn't had a feed yet though. Looks interested but can't find the boob yet. Been an hour and a half so hopefully soon.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

It's very funny watching Xena desperately try and steer bub onto the boob. She's obviously a very experienced mum.


----------



## karliejaye

Looks like a mini version of mom! So cute.


----------



## Cielo Notturno

Yay, baby finally arrived! Its so cool to read that she didn't need any aid. Baby looks so much like her


----------



## Dustbunny

Well, Conratulations...to you and Mom!!!!!!!!!

Just think, horse people all over the world have been watching this and wishing you the best.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Mum won't let me anywhere near bub but I'm pretty sure it's a colt.


----------



## Cielo Notturno

Has (he?) eaten yet?


----------



## Cielo Notturno

I looked back at the beginning of the thread... the difference between bag-of-bones-Xena and nice-and-shiny-Xena is amazing


----------



## OoLaurenoO

I know it's crazy how much she's changed! Yep probably should have added that. He managed to latch on just shy of two hours old. Mum tried to double barrel me when I went to move them (had to muster them through the house yard) I didn't want to leave them out though because once he really finds his legs I wouldn't be able to catch them! I've just left them in the yards to settle now. I'm sure she will calm down in a few days. She's such a good mum.


----------



## Nikkibella

So awesome! Very excited for you and mama and baby! Congrats!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## egrogan

Just catching up, congrats!!


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## anndankev

Oh, a colt 

How about Jack O'Lantern for a name ?

Could call him Jack, or Lantern.​


----------



## EliRose

Congrats! He's a gorgeous little boy


----------



## Luce73

If were gonna think of names my vote would be with Argo or Solan (Xenas horse/son)


----------



## sarahfromsc

Finally! Healthy babe and mom. You will be able to sleep again.

So happy for you and your new 'family'

He is a Spitting Image of momma. Nice name that could be....lol


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Good idea keep up the name suggestions! I haven't even started to think about that yet.. Had to get the vet out, mum retained her placenta. By the time the vet arrived I had worked myself into such a state thinking that after all this I would lose her to retained placenta because we wouldn't be able to lay a hand on her. (It had already been retained for six hours when they arrived, it's nearly 40 degrees Celsius here) She proved me wrong again luckily. I took a couple of minutes to calm myself down then went in and caught her. She was so good. Very stressed and very worried but didn't even try to kill me or the vet!!! Placenta came away easily in one piece and we gave her a quick flush for good measure. I'm so relieved. In my sleep deprived state I really managed to work myself up. Anyway, just need to concentrate on keeping everyone nice and cool today then I can begin to relax a bit I think. (I hope)


----------



## Blue

O my gosh! Adorable! Congratulations on a job well done! By you AND mama. More pictures soon!


----------



## JCnGrace

Yay! So glad the little one is here and all is ok.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Look how leggy he is compared to Lyra! Beautiful baby.  bit skinnier then Lyra was too but I'm sure with mums jersey cow udder it won't take long to bull him up. I'll try and get some more photos of him and Lyra later today. Pretty hot, windy and miserable here ATM.


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## OoLaurenoO

Four white hooves. I wonder if he will have little white socks? Mum has black feet aside from the one with the white sock.


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## DraftyAiresMum

I love how little Lyra is!! I just want to eat her up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cheyennemymare

Yay! Go Xena! I'm was so excited to see the little guy made it without any complications. And Xena too! Lyra definetly looks more like a pony baby than Xena's colt. He looks like my now 16hh baby did! More pics? Haha I'm too excited and we live in different countries! 

Ooh, and it looks like Xena as a baby on the right, and then her grown up on the left. Spitting image of his gorgeous mama! And so glad he is a healthy little baby!

And for Names I like Peanut and Pal! And Cracker, Golden Ray, aka Ray, and Sundance!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson

congrats. Hope you got that belly button dipped while the Vet was out. Don't want any nasty infection crawling in there. He is cute. you could call him sahlam (sp) soundsl like solem . the celtic ritual before it became halloween. 
Pumpkin, treat , saint, all soul, October, I had an appy named peter pumkin eater. 
You will think of a name after you see his personality. he sure is cute.


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep we sprayed his umbilical cord but due to the heat and the wind it had pretty much all dried up anyway. Mum and bub are doing great. I've left them alone as much as I can today. She is still on super high alert but has settled a lot this evening. Anyway I'm off to bed!! Been up since six a clock Friday morning and it's now 9pm Saturday night. Plus the last few nights of getting up to check her through the night I'm pretty stuffed! I'll grab some more pics for you guys tomorrow.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well mum and bub are doing super well today!! He is eating and drinking like a champ and she has settled right down. I'm still staying away from baby but she lets me into the yard to feed and pick up the poo. He's just so **** adorable!!! I've kept Lou Lou and Lyra in the yard next door because Xena gets upset when I try to turn her out into the paddock. Can't wait till I can put them out together and watch the foal antics!!  still need a name. Haven't found one that feels quite right yet. Lyra got her halter on for the first time today. She's not a fan lol but I'm sure she will get used to it.


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## Chevaux

Maybe this was covered before and I missed it but is it possible the sire is same for both foals?


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## OoLaurenoO

They were from the same mob so very likely it's the same sire.


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## DraftyAiresMum

What a little chunk Lyra is!!! Love her to pieces! And Lou Lou is just gorgeous.

New baby is precious. I like Argo for him. Fits with his mom being Xena and all. Plus Argo in the show was a pally. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCnGrace

You have done a really good job in getting those mares back to a healthy condition. I'm amazed every time you post a picture.


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## OoLaurenoO

Isn't she chunky!!! Beautiful little girl.  I like Argo, but I'm having trouble convincing the rest of the team.  they are pretty adimant that's a girls name lol. Im sure something will stick eventually!


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## DraftyAiresMum

Everywhere I've looked online has Argo listed as a boy's name. It means "swift" in Greek and was the name of Jason's ship that he set out to find the Golden Fleece in (hence "Jason and the ARGOnauts").
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen

Argo is also the name of the loyal horse in the game "shadow of the colossus". It is very much a boy's name


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## OoLaurenoO

Lol I'll have to do some convincing.  they want to call him Harry.


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## cheyennemymare

Lyra is so cute! With all the waiting for Xena, I've missed her pictures! But Lou Lou is sitting there, looking like a pro while Lyra and her little halter are so adorable. Lou Lou is a very pretty mare, and I think Lyra will blossom out beautifully.

As for the little Pali, I wanna kiss him! He's so sweet, and knowing what he went through with mama, I just wanna eat him and Xena up! I'm glad she's settling in, and hopefully soon you can really get you hands on the colt. 

I'll be waiting for more pictures!

(P.S. The picture of Lyra looking up at you nearly made me fall out of my chair! She's so cute!)


----------



## anndankev

Oh-Oh, I like Harry, too.

I had an Uncle Harry, he was the Sheriff of Frankfort Indiana for many, many years. Harry Major.


----------



## Yogiwick

Never heard of Argo as a girl's name. That's new.

Harry's cute but don't love it for a horse. Especially an adult horse that he will inevitably be lol.


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## OoLaurenoO

Maybe it's because Xenas horse was a girl? They are pretty avid Xena fans lol. Yea he is pretty tricky to name.. Don't know why, Lyra was so easy, it just stuck straight away! I'll have to keep thinking on it.


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## Cielo Notturno

OoLaurenoO said:


> Maybe it's because Xenas horse was a girl? They are pretty avid Xena fans lol. Yea he is pretty tricky to name.. Don't know why, Lyra was so easy, it just stuck straight away! I'll have to keep thinking on it.


Then he should be Solan :lol:


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## Yogiwick

Don't know much about Xena but I do like Argo.

Keep us updated


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok!! I think we have settled on a name. What do you guys think about Hero? Cute little pony name, kind of fits in with the theme of Xenas name.


----------



## Yogiwick

Wouldn't be my first pick but it's super cute and I think suits him


----------



## SunnyDraco

New Disney movie is coming soon, my kids love watching the trailers. The main character is a teenage boy named Hero


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## OoLaurenoO

Well I'm pretty sure Hero is trying to get me killed. Was in the yard picking up poo this morning and up he came like it was no big deal. "Hey human" Xena flipped right out, dragon snorting and trying to double barrel me. He didn't seem to have any concept of what the big deal was he just wanted to say hi! He is much more adventurous then Lyra was at his age. Anyway this arvo I retreated to a much safer location on the other side of the fence and just sat down. He came right over for a look see. Mum carried on a bit but not as badly as when I was in the yard. She was much more settled while I was picking up the poo this afternoon but still really doesn't want me anywhere near Hero. Still early days yet though, just need to be careful.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Man I can't wait till the three musketeers can play together!!! Theo's been a bit sour lately. I think he would really benefit from some friends closer to his own age.


----------



## Luce73

Oh my, those pictures are too adorable to handle so early in the morning!! Hero is a very cute name  Give that little nose a smooch for me!


----------



## sarahfromsc

The pics are a lovely way to bring in my new day!

I believe my faith in humanity could become restored.


----------



## Luce73

sarahfromsc said:


> The pics are a lovely way to bring in my new day!
> 
> I believe my faith in humanity could become restored.


Hero, bringer of world peace.


----------



## Blue

I just wanna squeeze 'em all!


----------



## Drifting

I love the name Hero! It does fit with Xena. I like it 

He's adorable and I love how friendly/adventurous he seems to just march right up to you. Hope his mom settles down some so you can work with them both more.


----------



## Jumping4Joy

They're so adorable haha! You are a very wonderful person and everyone in the horse world should be as kind as you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## zookeeper1991

Congratulations!! They are adorable. I have really enjoyed reading about your horses. You've done a great job with them! Looking forward to hearing more about them and seeing more pictures!!


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

OoLaurenoO said:


> Man I can't wait till the three musketeers can play together!!! Theo's been a bit sour lately. I think he would really benefit from some friends closer to his own age.


You've done an awesome job bringing those girls back to health and seeing to it that they have healthy babies. Good job! Little me, Hero, is a bit wind swept looking in the front. See the way he's a little knock kneed in each pic? I had one like that and they'll straighten up but the bet had me keep him in for the first month, he didn't want any stress on those knee joints. 

I'll see if I can find some pics, when he was born and after he straightened up.


----------



## Yogiwick

Hrm maybe a creep feed type setup for Hero visiting?


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Yea I was thinking a creep setup would be perfect for Hero visiting. I'll probably still try and give mum some more time to come around first. I don't want to freak her out if I can avoid it. Yea his legs are a bit funny. Sometime they look better then they look a bit wonky again. I'm planning on leaving them in the yards until the weekend. By then with any luck Xena will have settled down some and I can get the vet out the look at her hooves! I'll get them to check Hero's legs while they are here. She's no where near as lame as she was. Dropping the extra weight and being confined seems to have helped her a lot. Still need to get the hooves trimmed back desperately though. They are so long and with the split in the back hoof even though it's growing out I worry it's going to snap and take off half her wall.. Anyway. Baby steps.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Well say hello to the Hero handling contraption. I would have been happy to leave them alone for a week or so but apparantly Hero had other ideas. He must think I have a death wish. I went in to clean the yard this arvo and he came straight over again with Xena in hot pursuit. I decided it would probably be safer for me to put up a barrier. Anyway under he came to say hello. I gave him a little scratch on the chin but didn't touch him to much. I was worried if he got a fright mum would come charging over the bar to get me! Lol. Anyway she took it well, she was anxious but ok.


----------



## cheyennemymare

Awe! Hero is adorable! And his eyelashes have me HOOKED! They are soooo long and sweet! Lyra is really coming on! All the black has faded from her face and she's adorable! Poor Theo lol. Too many babies for a big boy like him I'm so happy for Lou Lou and Xena, and Hero seems like he'll make a great little horse.

Keep us updated!


----------



## KigerQueen

Well its good he likes people and wants to be with them . Means hes a thinker and training will be a breeze (well hopefully XD).


----------



## stevenson

Maybe Hero;s antics will help Xena become a little more social.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

I hope so. Lyra settled Lou Lou right down. I think she will settle once the initial "OMG don't touch my baby" wears off. Fingers crossed anyway.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Well I put mums and bubs out into the small paddock today. Lyra was going mad in the yards. Nice to see Xena was just as foal proud when I'm not around. She won't let him leave her side. I'm hoping with some extra space she might relax a bit! At the moment she just runs after him.


----------



## Cielo Notturno

:shock: Lyra and Hero are _so_ different!! It was clear earlier but, seeing them together, it's stunning. She has a nice pony-tummy, and he's just legs and bones :lol: I wonder how will they look like when they are grown  

I don't know much about raising foals; when will it be a good idea to have Theo join them?


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Probably a few weeks away yet.. Theo is a lot bigger then them so I don't want him playing rough. Plus Xenas still so on edge I don't think she would appreciate it. Especially if Hero decides he should be best buds with Theo. Can you imagine Xena would be after him! We will just have to see how we go.


----------



## Yogiwick

LOVE the pic of mama charging after him. She almost looks like she's outright chasing him!

She'd better settle down at some point or she's doing to have a VERY stressful summer!!


----------



## Blue

O my! He's going to be a handful for her!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Yep I suspect you're right. He is so independent already. Just heads off to do his own thing with mum hot on his heels. I'm hoping with that tiny bit more space she might start to relax a bit more with him moving away from her as opposed to in the yards when he couldn't leave lol. We will see. I'm sure she will settle eventually. I hope it's sooner rather then later. Will make my life much easier!


----------



## EquineBovine

Wow! Congrats on your happy healthy foalings! Can't wait for more updates!


----------



## Drifting

So cute! Won't be long until the babies are playing with each other. Momma will settle eventually.


----------



## egrogan

I can't wait until Theo can have some friends. Those two little colts are going to be trouble


----------



## FrostedLilly

Aw, he's adorable! I'm so happy everything has gone well for you guys. 

Xena might just be a more protective mum period, even without all of her past issues. My mare was a giant puppy dog before she had Elsa and was a complete worry wart disaster after she was born. She would freak out if Elsa was more than 2 ft away. If we touched her and she jumped or squealed, she was immediately right there, nickering and making sure Elsa was ok. I can't imagine how she would behave if she'd been neglected or mistreated. You're doing such a good job with these horses!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Yea, you would think having multiple babies before she wouldn't be so foal proud though. In saying that she probably had past baby/babies in the mob and had them taken away from her so she could be stressed I'm going to steal him? Who knows! She's definitely settling down. I still wouldn't trust her not to kick me in the head but much more relaxed when I'm picking up poo or hanging out in Lou Lou's yards. Theo has been hanging out in the yards near them of a night time and then going out with Kye of a day time. Yesterday when I put the girls into the small paddock they were right next to Theo and Kye so everyone got a good look at each other. Kye was whinnying and carrying on (I think he's missing having other adult horses around) the girls kept their babies well away but hopefully as time goes on they will relax around him. I'm going to put Lyra's halter on for another play today.  I'll try and get some more pics!


----------



## Blue

Ya know, you could be right. If she had babies taken from her, any good mother would freak. And she's freaked already. 

I've never had foals around so don't take my word word with any experience at all, but I don't know that you may have to "help" her along a little bit to see that you're not stealing her baby. In time of course. 

I still think you are an incredible person for taking on these lives that surely would have been lost if not for you.


----------



## cheyennemymare

Such cute little babies!


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Xena went to go me this morning when I was putting her feed out. Ears pinned back. It was only a half serious attempt but I feel like it is escalating and not settling down. I wasn't anywhere near Hero at the time either.. I'm thinking if she continues with this behavior I will have to turn her out and wean Hero early. Maybe 4-5 months? I have a good yard setup so could manage it so I don't have to go in the yard with her at all while cleaning and feeding so might have to start doing that I think. It will be a shame not being able to handle him or do any more work with her until bub is weaned but not worth risking my own safety either.. I put Lou Lou and Lyra out without her today. She's not impressed. She can still see and hear Lou Lou but is walking the yard a lot. Hero came over (with the bar up so Xena couldn't) and got a good neck scratch! He is such a friendly little chap even with mum carrying on. I hope she does start to settle down soon. :/ I've got the bar setup between two yards at the moment (while I'm out here) so Hero can actually leave and go into another yard where I am to say hello. He seems to thinks its great! Also I don't feel so cornered in case mum comes screaming over the bar. His legs are really straightening up too which is a plus.


----------



## Blue

He looks good! You'll get this sorted out I'm sure.


----------



## anndankev

How are you reacting to Xena's aggression?

Maybe put a thread up in the Training or Breeding sub-forums for advice from those who have dealt with an overly protective mother, and/or an overly frightened/aggressive wild caught mare.


----------



## OoLaurenoO

Ok I will give it a go. I have mostly been ignoring it and just staying away from bub but when she came at me this morning I threw my hands up and sent her away. The trouble is that it's a small yard. So she must feel a bit trapped because she can't get away from me and I would be in big trouble if she decided to get serious because there would be no where for me to go.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I hesitated to make any of my normal, "Take no crap off new mothers" posts because of this mare's history and it sounded like she was coming around. Since she's showing you some serious disrespect though, I'm going to tell you what I do with my mares and you can try it or not, if you think she would respond well. Or not if she would just nut up and be more dangerous/disrespectful. 

In my barn I take no crap off mama mares, new/maiden or old/experienced or not. My barn, my feed, my rules and my way or the highway. If she was one of my mares, I would tie her up to something very solid, with a good strong lead and halter on her. Then I would sit in her stall and handle her and the foal as much as I wanted, as the foal wanted and as soon as I got the response from her that I wanted, I'd quit. 

So, I'd walk up, halter her or catch her by her catch rope, whatever you have her doing right now and I'd lead her over to a nice solid pole or post or tree that I could tie her to and she'd get tied short. Then I'd take a comb, brush and start brushing and combing her, and I'd use the "hand on a stick" or even just a piece of pipe or pvc or broomstick or something reach out and touch all those 'off limits' spots of hers. I'd do that until she stayed pretty calm and didn't try to kick or bite, at first. Pretty soon, I'd work my way up to being able to put my hands all over her and she's have pretty ears (not flattened or looking grumpy) while I did it. Keep your sessions fairly short and give her praise for the least little try. Every time you praise her stop doing what your doing, whether it's touching her or petting the little one. Once I got done touching on her, I'd move to scritching the little one for a few minutes, and I'd start getting him used to a soft brush and comb. Every time you do something to HIM and she's not blowing a gasket, praise her and walk away from him for a minute. 

Then go back to her and give her a scritch in her favorite spot for just a minute, praise her and then turn her loose again. I'd do this 3 or 4 times a day, if I could be around her that much. 

When you go in and feed her, take a lunge whip or piece of pvc pipe or something to make your arm long. You point that at her and say, "No crowding" and make her back up a few steps before you put her food down. If she backs off a couple of feet, say, "Whoa" and praise her and put the food down. Make sure she's facing you and remind her, "Give me pretty ears" or "No caca ears" and don't set the food down til those ears are up and pointing at you. Praise and set the food down and back away. Don't let her come up to eat until you've backed off the food bowl a couple of feet. She only gets to eat when you say so. That will cure the disrespect pretty quickly. If she ever does go for you for real, you lay into her with that stick, pipe, whatever you have at hand to drive her off and you do it really well, even if it means you have to drive her backwards around the corral or turn out pen. Let her know that's not even close to acceptable.


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## OoLaurenoO

That's exactly what I would do to. But I'm hesitant to take that approach with her for a few reasons.. I can't even catch her at the moment. She just swings her bum and kicks out. If it was a regular horse I would get right up her for swinging her bum but I'm a bit worried with the foal that I may push her past her breaking point and she will really turn into a dangerous animal. Generally she is a very sensitive mare, even raising your voice she flips out. To drive her away at the moment I just need to raise my hands and tell her to get out of it and she retreats. The next reason is that the yards are quite small. To small to be caught with a mare that really wanted to go you. 
No where to drive her away to that she won't feel trapped, no where for me to go if she does turn. I would have to move her into the round yard and I haven't figured out how to get her there yet.. The other problem is that she isn't food motivated at all. Since having the baby she rarely even finishes her feed. She is eating maybe 6 biscuits of lucern hay a day. Probably less but that's all she will have. Just picking at her hard feed. (Which leads me to believe she is anxious, because she ate it fine before and I'm not usually out there through the day I'm at work) Lastly I don't think that she's really doing it out of malice. I think she is frightened and anxious and responding the only way she knows how. Not an excuse for her behavior but I don't want to fuel that anxiety either. I'm a bit stumped. So I don't want to give her more to be anxious about, but obviously I can't let the behavior continue or escalate. She is definitely one of my more difficult cases. I hope I can bring her around.


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## Jenninotjenny

Subbing
In love with these babies!!! Read beginning to end and was so excited to see Lyra! You've done so well with them! Can't believe how far they've come in the short time you've had them!!


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks! Sometimes I forget it's only been a couple of months.. It feels like so much longer.  I think I should keep that in mind with Xena too I suppose. Really it hasn't been very long at all in her lifetime. She's used to everything being a threat to her baby as it is let alone what she went through before I got her. I'm hoping if I don't put myself in a position that the behavior can occur, she will be less and less inclined to offer it and just give her more time to settle instead. Fingers crossed anyway.


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## FrostedLilly

Give her a bit of time and I think she'll start to relax. Even though she's had foals before, goodness knows the circumstances surrounding her previous foals - she obviously feels a reason to be anxious. 

I do like Dreamcatcher's suggestion of bringing a lunge whip or other long mechanism. Bad history or not, turning her hindquarters to you is not acceptable behaviour and if you back down every time she does it, she's going to keep doing it. Even if it's just a little tap from a safe angle/distance to snap her out of it, it's a negative consequence for bad behaviour. I will caveat this with the fact that I am not an expert and have limited experience with broodmares and rescues alike. In the end, you know her better than any of us, so if you don't feel safe, then do what you feel is best. I'm glad to see his legs are starting to straighten! He's looking really cute.


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## Blue

When you swing your arms at her to move her away, does she face you after moving?

This is a difficult one. Don't take that attitude, but try to to push her too hard. If she likes a treat of some kind I think I'd get her interested in my hand and treat to begin with. Maybe this way she's learn you're on her side?


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## cheyennemymare

I hope all the Xena attitude settles down:/ Dreamcatcher has some great ideas, but of you can't catch her, I'm not sure how well tying her would go. Will she even allow those neck scratches she used to love?:think: Maybe associating yourself with positive is the way to go right now. I know you can't take that attitude, but with the rescue horses I've worked with, and especially the mares, flip when I would raise my voice, and then we were at square 1 again. At least Hero is independent. If he sat under mama, you'd have worse problems.

Hoping all goes well! Fingers crossed she calms down!


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## FrostedLilly

It's a difficult situation for sure. A horse with trust issues is one thing, it becomes a whole new ball game when you add a foal to that mix. Here's hoping she settles down after a couple of days/weeks.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

OoLaurenoO said:


> That's exactly what I would do to. But I'm hesitant to take that approach with her for a few reasons.. I can't even catch her at the moment. She just swings her bum and kicks out.


That's why I've been hesitant to post. You're in a catch 22, if you DON'T get after her, you're reinforcing her bad behavior and making her dangerous to be around. You're letting her know she's the one in charge. If you DO get after her, you run the risk of getting hurt yourself and traumatizing her more. 

I'll make a couple of observations about horse behavior for you to think about and then I'll let it. go. 

#1 Horses want someone to be a leader. Right now, she's the leader and that's anxiety provoking for her. 

#2. Horses are innately fair animals and I've never had a horse hold it against me if I did a correction for disrespect, so long as the correction was timely, fair and firm. 

#3. I've always been taught not to go easy on a horse because of its past, that you must establish you are the leader or the horse will become worse than it is already. 

My next recommendation would be to find a trainer who isn't afraid of the horse to come in an give her some ground lessons, and to show you how to establish and keep respect. All it takes is for her to let those feet fly at just the wrong moment to hit you in the head and that's the end of you. I've worked with rescues for many years, in addition to working with my own horses since I was a child, so over 40 years, just so you know I'm not entirely without experience with difficult horses.


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks guys! I could tell you were experienced by the way that you wrote out your post.  I think you are right and I will have to reprimand the behavior. It's so hard with the little foal in the way though I am worried. What if I spook her and she runs over him? I would never forgive myself.. I do have access to a very good horseman who I could get over for advise. I might give him a call. Sometimes fresh eyes looking at the mare and her behavior can work miracles. (He is also a lot more experienced then me!)


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

OoLaurenoO said:


> I do have access to a very good horseman who I could get over for advise. I might give him a call. Sometimes fresh eyes looking at the mare and her behavior can work miracles. (He is also a lot more experienced then me!)


If you have someone who can come over and help you, that's what I would do. Anytime you can have an experienced "extra pair of hands" when working with a horse who's determined to be silly, I would certainly do it. When I'm breaking out a green horse, I pay a teenager to come over and just sit and watch until I'm done. That way, if I get hurt, there's someone to call 911 and get some help. I don't want to encourage you to push the mare, if you don't have the experience and timing to know when to push and when to back off, you can easily get hurt, and I certainly don't want that to happen.


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## Yogiwick

I knew a mare who was both spoiled and abused by the same people. (They'd go out with treats and just let her run all over them when she didn't stop they'd beat her). She was a bit of a mess and I was always careful around her even without her foals. You couldn't correct too harshly or she'd flip out but she didn't really have any sense of space.

I think you're doing the right thing with avoiding the issues as much as possible (loving the bar!! It's good that Hero is NOT taking after mom, so many foals do). Obviously if you are in with her she needs to be corrected. I wouldn't follow through and move her around just move her back into her space. I think compromising is in order at this point but obviously you don't want to let her get away with too much. Maybe some goodies for her or something while Hero gets his time?


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## Blue

I also love that bar. Ingenious.

I agree with all of it but especially #3. While horses have memory, what sticks most in their minds is the most recent event. Her past before you is already past for her. You're the present.

Is there anyway you can simply "be bigger and in control". Not to move her around but to establish your space. It seems to me that if she were in a herd right now, there would be a lead mare. That mare would, through body language, establish rules. Don't encroach my space, don't take my food that sort of thing. Again, I have NO experience with this situation with the foal, but I think I'd ignore the baby entirely and pay attention to mama. She needs to know that you're no threat to her or her baby and that will take time and repetition.

Dreamcatcher, am I way off base here?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Blue said:


> I also love that bar. Ingenious.
> 
> I agree with all of it but especially #3. While horses have memory, what sticks most in their minds is the most recent event. Her past before you is already past for her. You're the present.
> 
> Is there anyway you can simply "be bigger and in control". Not to move her around but to establish your space. It seems to me that if she were in a herd right now, there would be a lead mare. That mare would, through body language, establish rules. Don't encroach my space, don't take my food that sort of thing. Again, I have NO experience with this situation with the foal, but I think I'd ignore the baby entirely and pay attention to mama. She needs to know that you're no threat to her or her baby and that will take time and repetition.
> 
> Dreamcatcher, am I way off base here?


No Blue, you're pretty close. The dominant mare would let her know that she has to be respectful, but would cut her a lot of slack for having a foal at side. It's kind of funny to watch the mare with foal at side become kind of a dominant mare, she'll actually take her foal to the side of the herd and keep other horses away from him, until he's bigger. Then the herd will re-establish pecking order and if need be they'll thump the mare pretty good to remind her of her manners. Horses sense indecision and hesitancy pretty well though, so that's why I'm not suggesting she go all "Dominant Mare" all over this one. The foal knows to stay out of it when the adults are "talking" and rarely will a foal get schooled so hard they get injured, in a herd setting. It can happen but it's rare.


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## Blue

Thanks Dream, wish you could be there for OoLaurenO. Shoot, I wish we all could!


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## OoLaurenoO

It would be great if you guys were closer! Be handy to have your help with this one.  it's not that I'm inexperienced, I don't want to talk myself up but I don't want to talk myself down either. I'm pretty capable with horses but she's so much harder with the foal.. Her concentration is 100% on him at all times so it's really hard to get her to focus and she winds up so fast. Anyway she was a bit better this morning. Didn't kick or pin her ears back once. Maybe she will settle down with time after all.. Fingers crossed anyway..


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

OoLaurenoO said:


> It would be great if you guys were closer! Be handy to have your help with this one.  it's not that I'm inexperienced, I don't want to talk myself up but I don't want to talk myself down either. I'm pretty capable with horses but she's so much harder with the foal.. Her concentration is 100% on him at all times so it's really hard to get her to focus and she winds up so fast. Anyway she was a bit better this morning. Didn't kick or pin her ears back once. Maybe she will settle down with time after all.. Fingers crossed anyway..


Even if she's one who's determined to be silly, after another week of the foal hanging on her, she'll start to relax a little. Repetition and routine is everything. I always say, "The new wore off of him, she's not so protective.", when one of mine starts being less watchful. 

It's not a lack of experience, it's being afraid to go in there by yourself and getting hurt. She'll smell that fear and it makes her worse. That's why having an extra pair of eyes and hands is so important for working with really green animals. 9.5 times out of 10, I could toss the saddle on one of mine, step up, sit down and walk off and there wouldn't ever be a problem. And then there's that .5 chance that we'll have a rodeo and the horse will win and I'll get hurt. At 57 I don't bounce so good and when I get hurt now, it tends to be more of a major event than it did when I was 23 or 24. 

I would try walking in there one time with my stick and trying to get hands on her. The minute she convinced me she wasn't bluffing with those hind feet, I'd be out of there until I could get a 2nd or even 3rd pair of hands/eyes on her. Maybe even someone who could toss a rope around her neck to just put some brakes on her, then go in and do what you have to. 

The other thing you can try is a 12 X 24 ft run, make it small enough that she really has nowhere to go and just big enough that you can dodge heels if need be. That way you can step on her catch rope and get hands on. And 12 X 24 is big enough that if the baby is in there he can stay out of the way enough to not get hurt.


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## Cielo Notturno

Hi, how is everyone doing?


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## OoLaurenoO

Everyone's going really well.  Xena seems to be settling down on her own luckily. She still won't let me catch her (not that I've really tried to hard) and still dragon snorts and carries on if I go to close but no more kicking out or pinning her ears back which is a relief. I think if I got my hands on her she would be alright so maybe next weekend I'll just throw a rope over her neck and give her a pat. I will need to organize a vet and farrier to come out and sedate her so we can do her feet. They are pretty long so hopefully I'll be able to organize that soon. Hero seems to have lost some of his curious nature towards me which is a shame. Hopefully mum doesn't rub off on him to much but im leaving them alone most of the time so hopefully it won't. Lou Lou and Lyra are going great! They and both little champions.  I'll try and get some more pics soon.


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## stevenson

don't forget the other baby pic .. we need to see 3


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## OoLaurenoO

Well here thy are! Breakfast time! Xena will finally come over to eat before I leave now. She seems to be improving with time. I'm planning on just leaving her alone until the weekend. Then I'll brig her in and throw a rope over her if she won't let me to close. Hopefully now she's more relaxed after I catch her a couple of times she will start to settled back into the routine.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Look at what a chunk Lyra is compared to Hero! I love it!

And where are our pictures of Mr Theo? *taps foot impatiently*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Theo is the hardest horse to photograph in the history of the world. He just comes straight over so I'm walking backwards trying to get a shot. I'll try and get one this arvo. He's shedding out his foal coat at the moment and looks like a shaggy giraffe but I'll do my best.


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## DraftyAiresMum

OoLaurenoO said:


> Theo is the hardest horse to photograph in the history of the world. He just comes straight over so I'm walking backwards trying to get a shot. I'll try and get one this arvo. He's shedding out his foal coat at the moment and looks like a shaggy giraffe but I'll do my best.


Shaggy giraffes happen to be a personal favorite of mine. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sunset878

Hi, I have been following your thread from the start and I want to congratulate you on the great job that you have done with these mares, and I am sure that the 3 foals will grow up to be good safe riding horses under your guidance.


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## OoLaurenoO

Sorry they are poor photos. He's impossible.


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## OoLaurenoO

Theree so helpful.


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## SunnyDraco

OoLaurenoO said:


> Sorry they are poor photos. He's impossible.


Certainly looks like a black colt now 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Luce73

I cant get over Hero's little face <3 That blaze is so cuuuuute. Theyre all looking great!


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## egrogan

OoLaurenoO said:


> Theree so helpful.


A picture of Hero without Xena in it! That seems like progress!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

All 3 are just adorable! But that little buckskin......AWWWWW!


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea they are so **** cute!!! Hero is scouring ATM... He's right on time for a foal heat scouring. Lyra had it too for a couple of days but not as watery as Hero's. Ideally I'd like to catch him, clean it off and give him some protexim but I'm not sure it's worth the drama that will undoubtably unfold. Not to mention setting Xena back again.. He is still suuuuper bright, drinking well and generally bouncing around so I think I'll just observe for now and catch him up if I have to. When I fed the mares this arvo I spent 15 minutes or so sitting in the empty wheelbarrow right next to their hay. Hero and Lyra came over to chew my shoelaces and check me out. Xena took it so well! Just hung out and ate her hay. She snorted a bit when Hero walked behind the barrow (and I was between her and him.) but just kept a watchful eye while he was over checking me out. When I started picking up the poo she did put her ears back when I went over near her hay while Hero was sucking. I just stood my ground and she seemed to decide it wasn't worth the effort and took a step back, ears flicked forward and she went back to eating.  He's only a week and a half old so she is settling pretty well considering.


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## KigerQueen

Sooo how is everything going?


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## cheyennemymare

Yeah, how is everyone? I miss the adorable photos! They make my day great!


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## OoLaurenoO

Everyone is going well. Xena has settled right down. I'm still leaving them alone mostly but she comes over right away for food and will just stand and eat while Hero and Lyra come over for play time. Hero won't really let me touch him but he is happy to come say hi if I'm sitting down hanging out.  I've spent the last couple of days fencing so Theo and Kye can go out into a big paddock together. I've been swapping everyone around a bit at the moment so it will be good to have another foal safe paddock! I'll grab some more pictures soon.


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## JCnGrace

It's nice to hear they're all doing well.


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## Luce73

Great to here they're all good. Will be waiting for those pictures


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## OoLaurenoO

Here's some pics.  Sorry they aren't great. I have to run backwards away from Theo to try and get him in the shot and nobody else likes to stand still long enough.


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## EquineBovine

Gosh they are beautiful!


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## OoLaurenoO

So I got you some pictures!!! Dinner time. Xena decided maybe I was ok enough to eat food out of my hand (winning) Hero and Lyra were off being cheeky behind me. Lou Lou is so fat now I've had to put her on a diet. She's been stealing Xenas food.. It's a bit of a pain because Xena could do with a bit more weight across her ribs but I'm worried Lou Lou will founder if I'm not careful. Anyway, less feed means cheaper for me which is a plus!


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## stevenson

Theo is such a doll ! He is going to be a nice looking animal.! 
They are all so cute and so healthy looking now !


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## OoLaurenoO

Wouldn't post all the pictures on the first reply for some reason


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## egrogan

Just so happy for you that everything is working out well. I flipped back to look at the early pictures of those mares, and just can't believe how you've completely transformed them. Love seeing the happy babies who have never known a frightening or hungry day in their young lives!


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## Blue

Wonderful!


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## JCnGrace

Looks like Lyra is already letting Hero know that he's there for her amusement. LOL

Dang, this is making me miss having foals. It's been 8 years since we quit breeding so I'm living vicariously through your pictures Lauren.


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## pixelsandponies

They look fantastic! LOVE The pictures of Lyra & Hero. I have really enjoyed following this thread; I smile every time I log in and there's a happy update and/or pictures. Thank you for sharing with us. 

Big congrats to you for all that you've done to help these horses! They are so incredibly lucky to have you.


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## cheyennemymare

Hero's eyelashes have had me since day 1! Lyra is really shaping out to be a gorgeous little girl! I love these pictures! Always make me smile to see Lou Lou and Xena all healthy!


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## Luce73

Any news? How are the little ones doing?


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## OoLaurenoO

Good I hope! I'm away at the moment, go home on Saturday afternoon. I have someone feeding and looking after them. They report all is well but I'm pretty anxious to get home and set eyes on themyself. I'll definitely post some pictures then!


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## stevenson

Xena is sure eyeballing Loulou ... like keep away .. its my food .. 
They look so much better now. maybe you could get Xena some beet pulp to help add some weight on her ? It does need soaked before feeding, or some sr feed ?


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## Yogiwick

Personally I think Xena looks fine. No she's not fat, but she doesn't need to be as long as she's maintaining condition with the foal (if she didn't have a foal I think she'd be near perfect from the "non weight critique pictures I've seen).

OP already addressed this- she would like to feed Xena more but the other mare is heavy and she has them in together atm. Sounds like the OP is on top of everything


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep, once I get home I'll start seperating Xena to give her a hard feed but that was going to be to difficult for the people who are looking after them to do so I figured it could wait a week. I don't want to seperate them because both mares will stress and I think it's good for the foals to be together. Honestly I suspect once they have the weight they will live off the smell of an oily rag. (They are wild ponies after all) It will just be a matter of keeping an eye on them while they are feeding the babies.


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## Blue

OoLaurenoO, you've done an excellent job of this so far. No reason to think you won't do what you need to from here on out.

We do need new pictures though


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## OoLaurenoO

Here are some pics I was sent! Excuse the poo I'll have a lot to pick up when I get home. They are only being fed one biscuit of lucerne hay twice a day (each) As you can see Xena is gaining weight on that alone and grazing. Theo looks like such a looney losing his foal coat. His back feet are quite slanted, like he sits right back on his frog so I think I'll have to get onto someone to come and have a look for me. I thought he may come up a bit more on his own but I don't want to leave it any longer. Anyway hats a job for next week. Hero is really starting to bulk up now which is good.  Lou Lou and Lyra are both chunky monkeys. So excited to get home and get back into working them. Aparantly they wait at the fence for breakfast and dinner and have no problems coming over straight away and eating while the waters are getting filled up and people are near by. Massive progress considering when I left all strangers were viewed as axe murders. Such good girls!!!


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## stevenson

Xena looks much better in that pic , must be the distance when taken ? 
Theo is a doll . Loulou still looks preggers... but they are all so cute.
That is good they come up and eat with strangers around.
You have really done a great job with them.


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## OoLaurenoO

Xena has definitely gained weight since I left which is pretty impressive for just getting two biscuits of hay a day. They are on pasture but it's pretty dry so not a lot of feed around. Lou Lou is nearly bigger now then when she was in foal! I'll have to put her on a serious diet lol.


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## Yogiwick

I'm sure it's good to just have people come feed and leave and not be messing with them. I'm sure it's helped strangers become more routine.

They all look great.


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## Blue

They look great!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well today was finally the day. Hero handling. Xena was totally scatty and all over the place. I ended up locking her in the next stable along. They could see each other through the bars but I didn't have to worry about her losing her mind which took the pressure off. Hero took it all in his stride. I started with a loop around the neck until he started to get he idea and then a halter. Just touching him all over and starting to teach him to move off pressure. He did so well. I probably took the session a little further then a normally would but it was such an end of the world procedure splitting him up from Xena (end of the world for her not him) that I wanted to get as much done as I could. He wasn't frightened of me at all and let me touch him all over no problems. I didn't try to pick up his feet. I don't think it would have been a problem at all but didn't want to move to far to fast and ruin all the progress we were already making. Mum on the other hand was totally out of her mind. Even with Hero with her she wouldn't let me catch her. While she was separate from him I managed to get a rope attached to her halter and once they were back together I did a little bit of work. She pretty much lost it. Totally terrified, I feel like I am back to square one with her..  it's very disheartening. I'm going to get a friend of mine to come over and help me with her again. (Pretty sure I've mentioned him before) anyway he was really good with her last time so hopefully he can help me again. On another note Theo had some more handing today as well. When I went to feed him this morning (only got back last night) he was extremly rude. Pinning his ears back and carrying on. So instead of breakfast he got a little tube up. Into the round yard (for the first time) for some work just practicing moving away and then coming back, changing directions. I don't want to do to much with him while he is young but I do want him to understand I'm more then just his food delivery service. Anyway then we picked up his feet and he had his first hose off. He didn't love it but was really well behaved.. (In the end) Lyra is next for some halter training but it's pretty hot here so I'm waiting for it to cool down a tad. Should be better later this arvo.


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## OoLaurenoO

So many mistakes **** spell check changing my words. I'm posting from my phone so it's hard to type and harder to read but having trouble posting pics from my computer so hopefully you guys get the gist. Anyway, I thought is post some pics of Xenas swelling on her leg. She's still very lame, no improvement. Now that I can catch her again (sort of) I'll be getting the vet out to investigate it further. Probably next week.. So don't think this is one of those "I'll ask on a forum for veterinary advise instead of getting a vet" posts. Her back foot is going amazingly and is almost totally grown out! Anyone seen swelling like this before and wants to hazard a guess as to what could be going on? I'm thinking possible tendon damage? I suspect the vet will x-ray it considering she's been so lame for so long? She's definitely not as easy case that's for sure.


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## OoLaurenoO

One big happy family! And all colour coordinated to boot.  You can see that Kye being a gelding doesn't deter Theo at all! He still gets under there no problems.


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## Yogiwick

Regarding the swelling I do know a horse with swelling like that but he is older and has many issues, he is also NOT lame. Her overgrown feet may be putting stress on that.

Honestly, aside from basic handling to help with feet/vet and whatnot I would be pretty much leaving Xena alone until Hero's weaned. Think it would just be easier.


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea I want to leave her alone but as you can see from the pics really need to get those feet trimmed and get her legs checked by the vet. I have a farrier who is really good with unhandled or difficult horses but I think for now I'll just get the vet to put her on the ground and take the edges off so it all gets done at once. I'll probably give Hero another quick lesson that day and if I'm lucky enough his testicles will have dropped early and we can do everything at once. After that hopefully they can have a couple of months to just chill out.


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## EquineBovine

AWWW! So good that they are all in together! Well done you! So glad Theo has friends now!


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## OoLaurenoO

Me too.  he doesn't go near them or show any intrest yet but I'm sure that will change in time.


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## stevenson

they are all so cute. Hopefully the farrier and vet will get xena fixed up. Tendon ligaments or some sort of spavin.


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## OoLaurenoO

Spoke to the vet today. He's coming next Tuesday. (9th of December) he will check her legs and also trim the hooves while he's here. I told him he may need to knock her right to the ground but he's seen her before and happy to work around her lack of handling. Ideally I'd like to get my farrier to do her hooves but she just gets so stressed that I figure I'll kill two birds with one stone and buy her some time to be a mum and settle down again before we get back into the swing of things.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well today's the big day. Vet should be here in an hour. Hopefully get some answers about Xena's lameness and I know she will feel so much better once her feet are trimmed up too. Wish me luck.


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## Horseychick87

Good luck, hopefully she'll feel better with her hooves trimmed and hopefully the swelling won't be anything serious.


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## hyperkalemic4

You have really bought a lot of work for yourself!! I do hope you get both foals here safely. It would be wise for you to check if you could have some colustrum on hand if the mares do not have enough for the foals, that is often the difference between live foal and not. 
If the buck will let you touch her hind quarters, when they are really close to foaling, if you start tapping up around the tail head and down on the insides of the thighs, if it is real lax and sloppy feeling they are close.+


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## OoLaurenoO

Both foals are well and truly here and doing fantastically.  Lou Lou is also doing great she's such a sweet girl. Xena is the problem child. I don't even want to add up her vet bills... Anyway, vet came out had to knock her to the ground. Vet said back foot will be ok. Half the hoof wall is missing now as the scar that was growing down from the coronet split. She's still got coverage at the heels and other half of the hoof so just got to do regular trims until it grows out.. Front foot not such good news. Ligament/soft tissue damage. There was a lot of scarring on the tendon and it was restricting movement. He said she would benefit from a shoe that lifts the heel but not practical in her case. She may be paddock sound to an extent but it will take a year or so to get to that point. He doesn't think it will ever completely heal.


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## OoLaurenoO

He also trimmed the feet while she was down. Not the best job ever but a hell of a lot better then they were. Hopefully that will make her feet a little bit better.


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok front foot before and after, back foot (first photos a bit old, before she foaled) second photos after the trim. You can see how much the cracks grown out.


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## egrogan

How are all your lovely horses doing? I miss your updates on their progress!


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## Elana

Time may actually fix her better than anyone can think. Since you have foals to work with and a sound mare, if you have the money and the time to keep her a year and let's see, then go for it. 

OTOH there is something to be said for not throwing good money after bad. She may never be reliable and she may always be lame. Your decision of course.


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## Blue

Big hug to you for putting so much effort into this little mare. Her life has been a he!! and you've given her a safe haven. Whatever you manage to do for her is only a bonus.


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## OoLaurenoO

The ponies are all doing well. Unfortunately I've been unwell recently so they have been getting fed and watered but thats about it. Im hoping to start handling them again soon. On the upside they whinny and come straight up when they see me now.  Admittedly that has more to do with the food in my hand but hey. Xena is still very lame, she doesn't seem to be shuffling on her feet as much though. I suspect her back foot is feeling better after her trim.  Fingers crossed time helps her leg. I would like to leave her out in the paddock until I wean Hero if I can. When I handle her she can carry on a bit and I'm worried it will set her leg back. In saying that her feet will need to be trimmed to keep that back foot short until the scar grows out so she will have to get back into the handling routine sooner rather then later.. Lyra the little angel will let me catch her in the paddock, she's such a character. Hero is comfortable to come over and say hi but won't let me touch him in the paddock. In the stable on the other hand he comes right over to say hello. I'm sure he will have no problem with handling but I'm going to wait until he is weaned to avoid the stress on Xena. Im thinking I'll wean at 4 1/2 - 5 months... I know its early but the babies should be eating plenty of hard feed by then and they will have Kye and Theo to hang out with, teach them horsey ways.. I think it will really help Xena's handling because she stresses so much about Hero all the time. Hopefully it will also help Hero not grow up to be a worry wart like his mum. She really doesn't set a great example acting like I'm a lion who is going to eat her all the time. Amazingly he hasn't seemed to pick up any of that fear yet. Which is pretty strange.. Most mares I've worked with that are a bit funny their foals pick that up right away. Maybe because the rest of the mob is so blasé about it? Who knows.. Ill try and get some pics up soon.


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## Drifting

Feel better!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well here's little Theo, looking as scraggly as ever. He has had a rug on and off a few times and already outgrown it. I'm getting pretty worried about his back feet. They just don't look right to me. When I had the vet out to do Xena he checked them and said they were ok, but I'm not sure. I think after Christmas I'll get someone out for a second opinion.. Can you make them out in the photo? Any thoughts?


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## Fahntasia

do you have better pictures of his back feet? I cant see them very well....Is it the angle that he is standing that concerns you?


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## Drifting

You mean the way he seems to sit back on his heels and pasterns? I don't know enough about foal hooves or development.. would a trim to take back his toes help i wonder?


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## phantomhorse13

How often are Theo's feet being trimmed? A good trimmer/farrier will be able to correct small issues now before they become larger issues. Having youngsters trimmed every 4 weeks is not a bad idea.


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep, he had his feet done a couple of weeks ago. They weren't very long just a strange shape. I will be getting them done again early next year by a different farrier so I will be interested to see what he says. I got a new camera for christmas. Much better then the old iPhone! As soon as I work out how to use it I will get onto posting some more photos of the team for you. I'll try and get some better photos of Theo's feet this arvo.


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## anndankev

Nice photo.

Looks like it won't be long before the leggy one is taller than the stout one.


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok hopefully these work. I had to transfer them onto my phone to upload them. Computers playing up again.


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## JCnGrace

No one would ever guess that those two foals came out of starving mares. Both look really good.


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## OoLaurenoO

Couple more pics, most of the shots don't come out great... I really need some more practice.  They are really powering along. Hero is starting to get a bit more cautious around people where as Lyra is so laid back. They have a creep feeder setup. Lyra will happily come right through and around the corner if I have the gate open, way out of sight of mum. Hero flips out a bit if you walk between him and the exit. Hopefully once he is weaned he will settle back down.


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## OoLaurenoO

Here's Theo's feet. Back feet only fronts are fine. They aren't long at all, just a bit of a strange shape? Farrier and vet say a bit slopey but nothing to be worried about, just to trim the toes to prop him up a bit. Any thoughts?


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## stevenson

Theo is a cute one. Yes those hind toes are way to long, and he has no heels. I would be cutting back those toes . I always forget all the proper farrier terms to get rid of the no heels and all toes..


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## OoLaurenoO

His toes aren't long, they were trimmed short a week ago. That's just the shape of the foot.


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## Blue

I think it is an odd shape also. How is his walking? Does he play well? Be interested to hear what the other trimmer says as well.

They all look awesome! Give yourself a huge hug from all of us! Merry Christmas!


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## OoLaurenoO

He appears fine, no lameness and he races around like a manic with the others.


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## OoLaurenoO

And Merry Christmas to you guys too!


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## Cielo Notturno

Merry Christmas to you and all of your family and horses


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## AnnaLover

They are such beautiful babies!!


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## phantomhorse13

You may want to post those hoof pics in the hoof care section. There are several very knowledgeable people who can give you their opinions.


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok thanks I'll post some pics up there.


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## OoLaurenoO

Had some more foal handing today. Everyone went extremly well! The foals have been coming into the creep feeder so I just closed the gate between them and pushed the foals around the corner to the yards. They were out of sight of mums but within ten metres of them. Mums called out a bit but not to bad and Hero was much more settled away from Xena. Should be good because I can handle Hero without his mum flipping out. Lyra was a doll as always, she just takes everything in her stride. As she is shedding out her foal coat the backs of her ears are turning completely black. A lot more then the black rims Lou Lou has around hers. It will be interesting to see how black they go once she is finished shedding. Theo was an angel too. He is practicing tying up and going great guns. He had a rug on today just for the experience. He also got a fly veil on for the first time, not that you would know it. He took it like a pro. Very proud of all the babies.


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## Zexious

They are just the cutest things <3


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## EquineBovine

Nwaaah well done! I love your updates! Saw you on a facebook page today and smiled to myself thinking, I already know the whole story hehehe 
They are looking super!


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## OoLaurenoO

I'm feeling a black and white theme today! The babies are all doing well, very well actually! Lyra and Hero have had a couple of halter lessons, hoping to have their feet trimmed for the first time soon.


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## horseNpony

I just went through this whole thread and the changes both these mares and foals went are amazing. You did an amazing job with them! Good on you.
Looking forward to more updates in the future


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## anndankev

I know so little about breeding, it will show in this question.

I know that 2 foals from the same sire are NOT called half-siblings, only 2 foals from the same mare are.

So considering Lyra and Hero have the same sire, and are from a wild mob, their mothers may or may not be from their same sire or dam (as we do not their age). I recall seeing them referred to as sisters, though don't know if was in a literal sense. 

Could Lyra and Hero be cousins?


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## wakiya

If they have the same sire I don't know why they wouldn't be half siblings.


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## anndankev

I think that it was on HF, from a breeder, that I read that people 'in the know' would not refer to them as half-brother or half-sister, but rather as 'having the same sire'.

Wish I remembered where to find it again. Do not know if the reasoning is the great number of foals from a very popular breeding stallion, or maybe that the mare is hands on with the foal usually at least until weaning. Could that mean a stronger influence in some respects?

Or even something to do with line-breeding?


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## OoLaurenoO

No idea on the mares breeding regarding wether they are related or not, since they were running in the same mob I'm assuming the foals share a father but no way to really know for sure. If it was the same stallion then yes they would be half siblings.  To say they were 'fathered by the same sire' is the same as saying they are half siblings so I don't think it really matters either way.


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## stevenson

they are looking so much better. Theo is turning a pretty color. He is so shiny where he has shed. How how his hooves doing ? hope they are a lot better they do not look as sloped as before. Was the other being shy ? sorry forgot the palis name.. How is her leg ?


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## OoLaurenoO

Theo's feet are much better, trimmed correctly so now just a matter of keeping them that way so the tendons tighten and strengthen. Xena is still pretty much a basket case. No real progress with her. She is so stressed about Hero whenever handing that I've decided it not worth it until he is weaned. I've had the vet out and knocked her to the ground to do her feet but aside from her being extremly stressed I don't think it's any good for Hero either. Hoping to wean in another month and a half so I will start getting her back into a routine then.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well got the vet out to do Xena's feet again. She's clued onto the routine now unfortunately so was a bit nasty when we tried to sedate her. Weaning time can't come fast enough I really need to do a lot of work with her behavior wise. Medically wise no real change. Her cracked foot is still growing out, the vet thinks the tendon on her front leg is marginally better but still won't be anything other then paddock sound. I've got someone coming over at the start of feb to trim the foals and Lou Lou, he came highly recommended by a friend of mine. He does a lot of horse handling as well as the feet, has lots of experience working with thoroughbreds, usually the ones that no one else has been able to do. I've had a couple of lengthy conversations with him and I'm hopeful he may be able to help me with Xena. He will have a look at her when he comes but we may hold off on doing anything with her until Hero is weaned. She's like a coiled up spring that just winds tighter, it's impossible to bring her back down to earth. It's hard not to get a bit down about it all, everyone else is coming forward in leaps and bounds but with Xena it's two steps forward 100 steps back. I hope I can bring her around, she could only ever be a paddock companion, and a paddock companion with bad feet that will need regular attention. If I can't get her to the point where she is safe to handle, load, and pick up her feet it don't know what I'm going to do... Anyway, sorry for the long stressy rant, you guys know the long long road I'm traveling with these ponies so it's good to be able to rant without having to explain the whole story over again. As for the others, they are going well. Lyra had a rug on today, just for the experience. She didn't even bat an eye. We also practiced pick up her feet. Hero is a little further behind. He is still working on leading, getting caught, and getting touched all over. He's progressing well though.  Lou Lou is just getting back into the swing of things, he's also had some time off from handling but was reasonably willing for her session today.


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## OoLaurenoO

Couple of pics of the Bucky girls for good measure.


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## JCnGrace

Lou Lou looks like she's pregnant again. LOL

I have never had to do this before so I don't know how effective it is but I've heard that one of the methods for taming feral mustangs is to put them in their own pen and make them totally dependent on you. Hold their feed pan while they're eating, hold the water bucket while they're drinking, stand by the hay while they're munching on that. Sounds very time consuming so I guess it would come down to if you wanted to put in that time and effort for a horse that will only be pasture sound. Hopefully someone will chime in that has used this method or knows firsthand of someone who did.

I have really enjoyed reading about your journey with all these horses so I thank you for taking the time to do it. More than happy to listen to your vent too. Horse keeping can be frustrating at the best of times let alone with what you're dealing with. Sending you a cyber hug of support.


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## OoLaurenoO

I know! I thought about putting a picture up as 'do you think my mares in foal'  she lives off the smell of an oily rag. She will have to go into the Jenny Craig paddock soon.


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## Chevaux

Don't despair about Xena, Lauren. You've done marvelously with the others and you will get there with her too -- it's going to take longer (and you'll likely get lots of practice thinking outside the proverbial training box), no doubt, but you will prevail.


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## OoLaurenoO

I hope so! Here's a Hero shot in the mean time.


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## OoLaurenoO

Such a cutie


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## anndankev

So Theo and Hero (hey that rhymes) are becoming play buddies?


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep they are very chummy, they think they are super tough having mini battles then racing back to their mums. When I got home it was just on dark and the three babies were tearing around the paddock. I could make out Lyra and Hero easily but Theo was just a dark shadow most of the time. I would have liked to take a video but it was just to dark. It's always fun watching them racing around having fun. Occasionally the babies would duck back to mum before racing off again. It's funny watching Theo duck back to Kye in the same way.


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## egrogan

Do you think you will have to "wean" Theo from Kye when the other babies are separated from their moms? I wonder if that will be hard for him?


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea that is something I have been thinking about. I suspect I will have to wean him to an extent, but since I need to use him as a nanny I will wait until they are all much older before I do that. Theo can be lead away from Kye and vise versa without to many problems. They will call out to each other but don't seem to have a melt down. I can easily take Kye out of sight and give him a bath without anyone getting to stressed. They will call out though. Since I am weaning the foals at 4 1/2 months, (well, Hero will be 4 1/2 months, Lyra will be 5 months and Theo will be 6 months.) I figure I'll just do some kind of gradual weaning with him because ultimately I want Kye hanging out with the babies until they are much older. He will be a good influence on them. I don't have another horse I can put in with them so it's a bit of a hassle. Perhaps when he is 8 months old I can take Kye out for a few weeks then just reintroduce him? I'm just bouncing ideas around at the moment but it is something I have been thinking about. I don't want to end up with a two wear old with separation anxiety.


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## Yogiwick

Poor Kye haha.

Regarding weaning. It's really NOT necessary (in most cases).

Weaning is a) to stop nursing and b) to promote independence.

He's obviously not actually nursing and sounds like he has no separation issues. It's really not a bad thing if he's attached to Kye as long as he is calm and quiet away from him.

I started breeding sheep and always weaned the traditional way then realized that there really wasn't any point. There is NO difference between weaning traditionally or naturally. SAME result. Now I just leave them in together. I will wean (usually that means sell the lambs) of a run down ewe but otherwise just leave them.

My trainer who's a VERY experienced breeder always does gradual weaning (separates at night in neighboring stalls then separates during the day in adjacent pastures). IF the mare and/or foal (usually just the mare! if at all) is stressed she will move them to a non adjacent pasture.

NO issues with that and weaning is low stress and matter of fact, after awhile mother is put back in with the main group (foal stays with the mare group and other foals which is invaluable) and life goes on. Nursing is gone and the bond is still there but there is more independence.

Nothing wrong with being buddies or attached as long as they are independent as well.

Personally I would remove the mares and leave the 3 foals in with Kye. IF you have issues later on you can always separate them but there is no reason to "wean" and I think that's a pretty big if. He's not nursing and not overly dependent.

I think it would be good for the younger foals to have a "mom" during weaning too.


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## KsKatt

Wow! Was I missing out! All the beautiful baby pics!
This is now my fav thread!!:happydance:


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep I was always planning on using Kye as the nanny for the babies. He's such a good boy. It's going to be handy because I can use him to help the babies with new experiences. Their mums are no help whatsoever with that so hopefully after weaning we can get to all that fun stuff!


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## Yogiwick

They seem to have plenty of natural curiosity so hopefully not an issue!


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## OoLaurenoO

Lyra is very friendly and easy going. Hero has picked up on his mum a bit and is pretty skatty but I'm sure he will come around.


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## OoLaurenoO

Actually I was considering starting to bring the foals and Kye into the yards of an evening then putting them back out into the paddock of a morning. Mums would still be able to touch babies over the fence during the night. They are eating well from the creep feeder and I was hoping the extra time away from mum and extra handing will help Hero since it's still a month of weaning. Hopefully Xena getting used to her baby spending some time away may speed up her settling down so I can get back into handling her too... What do you guys think? Am I obsessing and should just leave them alone for now and worry about handling later when I wean. I just worry I need to be doing more with Xena, only another four weeks if that before I have to get her feet done again and I would really like to avoid knocking her to the ground if I possibly can. Aside from the costs it's no good for her medically or emotionally. Horses hey! Any suggestions?


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## Yogiwick

Hmm how old is Hero at this point?

I'd probably just wait. The only reason not to wait is Xena.

If it's not too far/separate maybe separate just her?

Depending on your set up all that I think would be accomplished would be cutting down nursing dependency which doesn't really matter at this point.


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## OoLaurenoO

He is only three months old now so weaning is still a month and a half off. I could separate just her easily enough I have a pretty good setups


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## Chevaux

If you have the facilities, I favour the gradual approach of increasing away time between mums and babies. It's the method I grew up around and it worked well - I'm not remembering any disasters by using it (it just requires a bit of patience and persistence); I do remember that at some point near the end of the exercise, some mares (but not all) had to be separated from their foals (just by going in the next pasture) for a period of time (I'm thinking it was around a month???) to get their milk dried up but that did not cause a hardship for anyone involved as, by that time, both sides were mostly independent from each other.


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## Yogiwick

Personally I don't think I'd do it that young (boy does time fly!) but up to you.

May be something to consider down the road if you want to leave the buckskins together longer.


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok thanks guys.. I'll try and stick with what I'm doing for now. The foals come away from mums into the yards for handling, they are getting there feet done next week for the first time which is way over due... Fingers crossed Xena will be able to be done soon too.. I'll attach a photo of Xenas foot also (the reason for the urgency of handling) I'm sure I've explained it here before but I'll repeat because who could be bothered to go back and read it again! So the hoof was sliced from coronet band to the bottom of the hoof, as it grew out there was a scar that ran along the coronet band. It grew out out really well but when it was about half way down it cracked and half her hoof came away. I had the vet come out and knock her to the ground and trim it nice and short (twice now) but the foot seems to be sitting at a funny angle. This photo is a before shot (the hoof was maybe a cm long) in the after shot it still sits at that funny angle. I'm worried she will need some kind of shoe to straighten it which is just not possible at this stage... Perhaps I'll just bite the bullet and start taking her into the round yard and leaving Hero in the paddock with the others. Perhaps after the first few sessions she will begin to settle down and realize she will go back with her baby soon enough..


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## OoLaurenoO

Big day tomorrow!! The babies are getting their feet done for the first time (well, for Hero and Lyra) Theo's an old hat now.  Hero has come along in leaps and bounds over the last week. He still acts like I am a mountain lion when he is loose but I just bring him and Lyra into the yards and he usually lets me catch him without to much trouble. Once I have him though he is a little angel! Picks up all four feet, leads like a champ, really coming along. Theo thinks he is the king of the entire universe at the moment. Doesn't really misbehave but you can see him thinking about it cheeky little ******. I'll grab some photos of the manicure time for you guys tomorrow. Hopefully we will be able to do Lou Lou as well. She's still a bit jumpy but I think she is ready. Not sure if we will have a look at Xena, the plan will be to see how we go with everyone else then maybe see how she's feeling. Fingers crossed it all goes off without a hitch!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well safe to say I'm very happy with the new farrier! The kids all got their feet done. Lyra got a little bit of a lesson in moving her feet away. We had some interesting chats about Theo's X-rays too. Lou Lou ended up getting a handling lesson instead of her feet. He showed me how 'stiff' she was and instead we worked on teaching her how to move her feet. His theory is that if she decides to do anything while he is underneath her he want to know that if you move her head her feet will follow instead of locking up and barging over the top of you. Wish I was better at explaining it all but while he was showing me I could see massive progress with her. We worked on getting her to step across with her front and back legs, I hadn't noticed how stiff she was until today. Safe to say massive progress in store for Lou Lou over the next few weeks! I'm feeling much more hopeful about Xena too. We didn't get time to do her today but he has given me tons of advice to start off with and we will have a go with her when he comes back in two weeks. Now I just have to try and not stuff up all the progress he made between now and then.


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## JCnGrace

It might serve you well to ask him if he ever has a slow enough day that he'd be willing to come out and work with them for a training fee since he made so much progress in a short amount of time..


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## OoLaurenoO

That's what he did.  $40 for a trim, $60 an hour when he handles them. Although he was here for half the day and didn't charge me to much at all. Half the time was spent teaching me of course, it seems I have nearly as much to learn as they do.. It's just a different approach to training then I have used before. As opposed to desentitising and quieting the horse and then teaching it the technicalities. (Which is the basic method that I was taught) he uses their flight to teach them the technicalities and then quietens them later.. Thats obviously a very broad statement but probably the best way I am able to describe it. His theory is that you get to the horses head using it's feet. I suppose I should make a new thread somewhere in the training section for this. I am always excited to learn something new, you guys are probably sick of my rambling in the breeding section though!


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## stevenson

I just caught up on the post. Great the foals got done. I like the new farriers idea for training them, we had to do that with our draft x's and the Norwegian fjord . Getting pushed around or over or drug is not fun.. Xena's hoof may never be straight, but it does look better , you have done a lot with her.


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## Yogiwick

Hrm so instead of
horse pulls away, calm and pick up foot it's
horse pulls away, hold foot until calm then release and praise?

Not sure if I'm following you but I always do the latter style of training (when possible).

I think having him out again is a great idea.


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## OoLaurenoO

In theory by the time you get to picking up the feet they should be so so 'ready' that they shouldn't have any problems. I am much better at showing something then explaining it but I will give it a go.. So, Lou Lou can lead quite well, she will stick to your shoulder and happily walk forward. I didn't really notice it before but when for example you go through a gate and the horse will turn around and come back as you close the gate. When Lou Lou turned around, she would arch out with her front end and follow with her back end. He explained to me that this was a problem because if anything happened while he was underneath her and you turned her head, instead of swinging her hind end away she would lock up and have to move forward to move her hind. As you can imagine that would be an issue because if she got a fright she was much more likely to smash forward without thinking then respond to the lead. So with previous horses I've owned I have always got them used to me being around them, touching them, leading them, picking up their feet. Then I have taught them to yield, and improved their general handling skills. So this theory is, you could have a horse that you can't pat, but one that can yield off you, come to you, pick up all it's feet and you achieve that by using it's natural instinct to flee and the horses desire to always take the easiest route. By the time you have that it's not to hard to quieten them down. I guess it's good for these girls because by allowing them to move their feet you are helping them to reduce their anxiety levels so in theory they would see the training as an opportunity to make their lives easier/better? Lou Lou seemed to respond really well so hoping Xena is the same just need to get some time to bring her in and see how she goes. Have I just answered the question with a whole lot of babble and not any real answers? To answer the question directly... When picking up the feet yes I would hold until they relaxed and then put the foot down. Piece of cake with the foals, not so easy with the mares though. This guys theory is also that when they try to pull their feet away, or wiggle/move they are always going somewhere. They are moving forward/backward/somewhere. So by better controlling where and how they move when you get to picking up the feet you have a much greater chance of controlling them because you can give smaller cues and they 'should' have a better understanding so you can stop them from carrying on with their feet before they escalate. Sorry for the massive massive post. Hopefully it makes at least some sense?


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## Yogiwick

It does and is an interesting explanation that I will need to try out sometime!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well it's been two weeks so the farrier was back again. (Feel like amazing horse trainer is a better way of describing him) Theo's feet are really coming along, they look normal now so just a matter of keeping them that way. He is such a well behaved baby! Stands like a rock when he gets his feet done, like an old hat. He's such a clever boy! Lou Lou had some massive light bulb moments today. Actually the whole day was a lightbulb moment for her. She got all four feet done! A few spats while she discovered that she couldn't snatch her feet away or kick out when they were being picked up but as soon as she realized the aim of the game was to relax her leg and she could have it back she got on board with the situation. Once she worked that out doing the feet was a piece of cake! He did them over a few goes, pick up the leg, clipped it off, had a look, put it down and gave her a break then picked it up and did a bit more. He wanted to reward her behavior for holding the leg calmly by giving it back but he also said that by doing it in a few different goes it's like you do the foot five times instead of once so better practice while she was learning. She was such a champ and has come so far in a short time. Further then I would have thought possible. After she was done he had a look at Xena. He ended up putting a lasso around her neck and starting with that because she had a tendency to ignore the halter when she got a fright and he wanted to start from scratch. Didn't push her to far just worked on getting her to move around calmly, yeild her hind end away when he put pressure to pull her in and then sent her out again, changing directions as well. It took her a while to calm down. Initially she just wanted to get the heck outta there. Very stressed and frightened but it didn't take her long to start to slow down and think. Didnt ask to much of her but at the end of the session while he was chatting to me about her she walked over to him and put her head down and have a big sigh. This is a mare that normally when you walk into her yard she goes stiff as a board with her head stuck up on high alert. I asked him if he thought she would come around and his response was 'oh yea, she'll be better then the buckskin soon enough.' He described her as the sort of horse that wears her heart on her sleeve, she is frightened so she shows it and she was much more inclined to move her feet then Lou Lou so much easier to work with aparantely. He showed me some more stuff to work on with them and he will be back in another two weeks. I'm very excited to do some more work and see what we can accomplish next session. I was really worried that Xena would never get to the point she could be safe and fear free around people but now I am much more hopeful she can live a happy life. So unbelievably greatful I met this trainer! I'll try and get some photos of the team tomorrow or Sarurday for you guys.


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## Yogiwick

Completely agree and think he needs a new career!!

I'll fly there just to watch lol


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## Sarahrachael

I just read this thread from beginning to now! It is absolutely amazing to see what you have done! These foals of yours are just adorable! Those mommas are so lucky to have you (and the foals)!! Such an amazing story! I love seeing their progress!


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks it's been a bit of an adventure. Glad I've got to share it with you guys. Fingers crossed it's up and up from here! I grabbed a couple of photos but it was raining and I only had my phone so they weren't very good. Here's a couple anyway. Lyra is a barrel on legs. (So is her mum really) Tomorrow I'll be bringing everyone in, had to get some new halters for the foals because they have out grown their old ones so I'll grab some shots in their new bling.


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## AnnaLover

Lyra has the most *beautiful* face!!


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## Yogiwick

WOW is she growing up!


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## OoLaurenoO

I know they have grown so much!! Halters are a little to big but give it a couple of weeks.  The rug Theo is wearing for the picture is actually Lou Lou's rug. Once she put on weight it no longer fitted her but just gives you an idea of how big he is getting!


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## Little Jane

So amazed by all you've done for these horses! Congratulations on two very pretty foals and lovely mums


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## OoLaurenoO

Some more pictures. You can never have to many pictures!!! Had a bit of a play with the girls this arvo. You can see Lou Lou's not quite sure what to make of me but she was such a good girl, very attentive and tried really hard to do everything I asked. Didn't do to much with Xena, asked her to walk around calmly, swing her hinds out when I asked her to and then keep walking calmly and change directions when asked. There was a bit of racing off like a maniac but she did settle down a lot after a few minutes. When she gets upset she likes to stop start a lot, pulls up fast then takes off fast so working on just calming everything down. She really needs a bath too! She has had one before but I figured she's not going to die from a bit of mud so may as well avoid the stress for now.


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## anndankev

Since I cannot hit the like button more than once I'll have to do it manually.

Like
Like
Like
Like....


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## Yogiwick

Laughing at the last pic of Lou Lou.

They look good, a little run down weightwise but nothing I'd be concerned about.


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep I've wanted to get a bit more weight on Xena for a little while now. It had been hard with her trying to kill me to get some good food into her but now that I can catch her again without fear for my life she's getting a regular feed again so I'm hopeful she will pick right back up.


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## Yogiwick

She's not too bad. That was my intention of saying that.

Glad she's settling a little.


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## EquineBovine

You are a frigging angel! Superstar! Well done x


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## stevenson

they are doing good ! Xena has a real pretty color as well as Loulou. You may never be abel to get rid of those broodmare bellys, and hope with some work they will get more top line.
The babies are to adorable.


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## OoLaurenoO

Gotta love that big brood mare belly!  I'm a bit excited for weaning. I feel like they both would be a richer gold colour if they weren't so sun bleeched. (A bath probably wouldn't hurt either) Lou Lou got a little bridle path cut today just for the fun of it. I also trimmed her ears up a bit as they were a bit dirty. She just stood there, while I stuffed around. Hero and Lyra wanted in on the action so they got a little bit off their ears while they stood there. (Just a bit off the bottom wispy bits) Theo was standing at the gate sulking because it was dinner time and a late dinner is the end of the world, and Xena was at the back of the pack just keeping a watchful eye on the whole situation. Got the farrier/trainer coming back next Thursday so keen to see what progress we make then! I'm hopefully going to try and get him out once a week for a few weeks. It's definitely making things tight money wise but I feel like it will be worth it to really make some serious progress with Xena. Hopefully after a few weeks she and I will have progressed enough to continue on. He will still be out regularly to do everyone's feet and I suspect a couple of lessons here and there won't go astray.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well I got a half decent photo of Theo so I figured I would put it up for you guys! He isn't standing straight with his back legs so looks a bit wonky but you get the idea. Look how massive his bum is!!!! Way to big for his teeny tiny neck and head lol. The girls are going well. Lou Lou managed to hurt her shoulder so she has been getting fed twice a day so she can get her antibiotic powder. I took the opportunity and have been fetching her with her halter every day, twice a day, leading her into the yard and feeding her. She's much easier to catch now, amazing what a bit or routine will do.  Xena has been getting the same treatment. Twice a day, everyday into the yard for breakfast and dinner. She's progressing too though a lot slower. All in all everyone's going well. ?


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## OoLaurenoO

Well big news guys!! Had the farrier/trainer out again today. We only worked on Xena due to Lou Lou's shoulder but guess what!! She got all four feet trimmed!! Those of you who have been following this thread know how traumatized she is around her legs so this is a HUGE step for her. (Pretty relieved we won't have to knock her to the ground with the vet to trim them anymore too.) she's really made amazing progress in the last month or so I'm so relieved. ? he mentioned to me that I should start looking for a bridle to fit them because all the ground work is being laid to start mouthing and breaking them in soon enough. I still feel so lucky being able to work with this trainer, he has taught me a lot and opened my eyes to a different style that is doing absolute wonders for these girls. ? I'll try and get some pictures of the rest of the team soon. ?


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## phantomhorse13

That is fantastic!! Would love to see what the feet are looking like now that someone is working on them. And pics of the kids too of course, cause who doesn't want to see such cuteness?


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## egrogan

So happy to hear about Xena's progress. It must give you such a sense of accomplishment to see how far she's come.

Love how slicked up Theo looks up above. He's going to be a handsome guy when he grows up.


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## JCnGrace

That's wonderful news about Xena.


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## Blue

Yay! And Theo looks great!


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## OoLaurenoO

Yep I gave him a bath so he was super shinny!  I'll try and grab some photos of Xenas feet hopefully Sunday. I'm working tomorrow and Saturday so won't have a lot of daylight hours to get a good photo until then.


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## stevenson

Glad Xena got her hooves done ! that is such progress ! Theo is a pretty boy ! 
Maybe in the next few months his front end will catch up to his hind end , the boy is butt high.
he will be going through some real gangly looking stages now that he has good nutrition. A lot of horses can get plain flat ugly around one to two years old ! 
it is nice to have a trainer that is helpful, and to have a good farrier .


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## OoLaurenoO

Since I am impatiently waiting for Colly to release her hostage I figured a couple more pictures wouldn't hurt! Lou Lou is absolutely coming ahead in leaps and bounds and Xena is FINALLY naked!!! (Halterless)  still such a long way to go with Her but making progress every day now.


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## stevenson

A saddle ! that is a lot of improvement . And Xena can be caught with out a halter on is great.
But she looks like she has lost some lbs.


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## OoLaurenoO

She hasn't gained but I don't think she has lost to much, she's a bit ribby that's for sure but has good muscle over her bum. Definately not where I'd like her.. Hero is taking a lot out of her..  I've started splitting the foals from the mares for a few hours during the day in preparation for weaning. (They get split up anyway when I work the mares.) Once the foals are weaned the mares will be brought in and rugged so should be a lot easier for handling and feeding and hopefully I'll be able to get a lot more condition on her.


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## Yogiwick

WOW what did I miss? Such a difference since the last post!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well we had a big day today with the girls! Foals are well and truly weaned and off in another paddock. Had the trainer out again today and as you can see Xena made some massive progress.  I'm hoping Lou lou will get her first ride on Sunday assuming I can get an extra pair of hands to supervise just in case something goes wrong. Not really something I want to do with no one else home. After the trainer left I decided what the heck! If Xena can wear a saddle she can handle a rug. Still have to be extra careful around that unpredictable back end but she took it all in her stride. Now they have matching rugs, basically little show ponies!  She is still much skinnier then I'd like but I think she has gained a little weight since I weaned Hero. I bought some high gain feed which has worked well for me in the past so she is getting that with her hard feed as well now. I should probably start putting these updates in the training section but since lots of you guys have read this thread from the start I wanted to put an update on here. Hopefully that's ok even though it's a little off track.


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## stevenson

Love the updates. so glad they are doing so well ! .


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## OoLaurenoO

And the rest of the photos that my phone decided not to upload.


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## OoLaurenoO

And some more after their dinner heading back out into the paddock!


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## Delaware Equestrian

Awww they look so cute in their little blankies!


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## egrogan

Such cuties in their blankets. 

I am so thrilled that we are mostly blanket free here (though it is snowing/sleeting here today, so much for it being spring!)


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## JCnGrace

They are really coming along! Let us know how your first ride goes.


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea ordinarily I'm not massively fussed with blankets. These girls it's more about experience then necessity. I will definately let you know how I go on Sunday. Hopefully well.. She's got a pretty good foundation on her now so hopefully it transfers to the saddle without any real problems.


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## anndankev

If you start a new thread be sure to put a link to it in a post here so I don't miss anything.


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## Blue

I am soooo happy these girls found their safe haven


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## Elana

Been following. Good on you.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well today went off without a hitch. Well.. Had to lift the bit up a bit more then I would like because she slipped her tonge over it a couple of times but I will lower it back down again ASAP. Ignore my horrible posture I promise I can ride and give it a couple more
months and she will be able to carry me much easier. Nine kg down so far, I'm pretty motivated to shed some more weight so I can ride the poor little things more comfortably for them. (Although it didn't seem to bother her luckily) Lou Lou was an absolute gem. We walked around, did a few turns, asked her to step across with her hinds both directions. Stop, back up, all pretty much flawless. Can't complain about a thing. Hopped off and gave her a big brush then much anticipated dinner. Everything transfered to saddle without a hitch and I am stoked. Xena had some fun too. Got to spend some time at the tree of wisdom. She's got the tree pretty down pat at this stage and just stood with her leg cocked while I rode around. I had a friend over and she rode my quiet gelding so she got to check that out too. Rug on, rug off and a bit of a play around with her legs using the flag. She took it all like a champ too. Just about to go and let them back into the paddock now they have finished their dinner but wanted to jump on here with an update. And of course, what is a thread without a few pics.


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## anndankev

Wow wee, a saddle pony, congrats.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well it's been a very busy few days down here. Had a massive flood, most of my fences were destroyed and the paddocks went under. No official reports yet but the river must have risen over 20 metres to get up near the house. It washed away our bridge so even though the water has subsided we are all trapped here for now. Kye and the babies paddock was the only one that didn't go underwater so they were alright. The neighbours house went under and they weren't home at the time so our neighbours and everyone here swam through flood waters to save their sheep, horses, cattle and dogs. Managed to save everything except for one dog which was swept away. It was heartbreaking but nothing we could do. All her animals went into the paddock with the babies. I managed to catch Xena and Lou Lou and we led them out and up to my neighbours which was higher ground. They were both pretty freaked out but handled it reasonably well. So they are chilling up with some other horses until I can replace some fences and move them back home. All in all I was super proud of how they handled themselves. When the river started rising I wasn't sure if I would be able to get Xena or if I would have to cut her fences and hope for the best. I'll try and get some better photos to put up here. They are all on another phone. That photo is where the bridge used to be. We managed to shoot an arrow across the river with a piece of string attaches and set up a pully system to get supplies across. Anyway, everyone is safe and dry now so let the clean up begin.


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## SunnyDraco

Oh wow that was quite the flood, hope you have good weather and everything gets repaired soon.


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## phantomhorse13

wow, how horrible. glad that there wasn't more loss of life. best of luck with getting things back up to speed!


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## JCnGrace

I'm sure all that was terrifying but glad you are safe. Hope you get everything repaired or replaced soon so that you can put it behind you.


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## egrogan

Sounds terrifying, can't even imagine that unfolding on my property. Will be sending lots of good thought to you and your neighbors as you clean up and rebuild.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OoLaurenoO

Hers a couple more pictures. Most of them are on other phones as mine was broken and I had to replace it. Still stuck here but the animals all all fine. Most of them are still at the neighbours and will have to stay there until we can replace the fences. The first photo is where the mares were and the second photo was the foals paddock. They are talking about a new road out so hopefully should be able to escape in a couple of weeks! Until then we have dubbed every night a Saturday night because you didn't work today and you're not working tomorrow!


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## SunnyDraco

Glad all the horses are still doing great and that there is a plan to have a road to provide a way out. Hope you have lots of food and fresh water as well.


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## OoLaurenoO

Hey guys just wanted to post an update. The babies are home finally, managed to knock up some temporary fences and get a paddock safe for them. I'll grab some photos soon. Lou Lou and Xena are still living next door being feral horses in the neighbours back paddock. They have been getting fed but that's about it. Yesterday I bought Lou lou a rug. Not that she needs it but I am such a big fan of rugs on rugs off for settling them down and didn't want to use a cotton that would just flatten her coat and not much else during the cold nights. It's probably the snazziest thing I have ever seen.  Everyone is filthy and covered in mud at the moment but you can see how much better Xena is looking now.  Hopefully I'll be able to get them home in another week or so and bring them both back into a good handling routine.


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## egrogan

Snazzy is an understatement! 

Love these girls.
Good luck on your continued repairs!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoriF

How is everything going since the flood? Everyone ok?


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## OoLaurenoO

Still no bridge and no access road. Managed to get some hay across through people's paddocks so that was good kept everyone happy. The army came in and built a walking track across the river so we can get out but it's a mega hassle. The insurance assessor is coming out at the start of next month so hopefully the access road is done and after that we can start rebuilding the fences and return to some form of normality.


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## stevenson

hope it goes well with the insurance. good luck. hope you and your family are all fine , and what a good neighbor to help.


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## OoLaurenoO

Some more pics, they aren't great I was in a bit of a hurry and they weren't particularly cooperative but hey. Yes the family are all going ok and all the animals are well thankfully! Looking forward to having them all back home and yea the neighbours have been amazing.


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## FrostedLilly

Glad to see everyone is ok! That sounds like it was a pretty scary situation. Hopefully they have a new bridge up for you soon and life can return to normal.


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## EquineBovine

Wow unreal what you've had to go through.
On the plus side, every one looks great! Wooly little yetis x love the one of them standing in order of height!


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## Yogiwick

Someone is growing more sideways then upwards 

Quite some variations there!


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## OoLaurenoO

Lol I know Lyra is a little keg on legs. I'm hoping she will even out a bit but I suspect she will be a short backed stumpy little pony just like her mum. lol she still can't decide what colour she wants to be either. Shedding out a chocolate colour on her face now. Such a waiting game to see what shade she will eventually turn out.


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## OoLaurenoO

Two little stars! Xena got a handling session and got some jammies on. She went very well considering she's basically been running feral for six weeks.


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## EquineBovine

I love these photos. You've done such a good job with everyone. Love the pjs!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well I've been stalking the breeding threads just to get a fix with all the new babies coming this year and I thought I'd post an update on my team. Hero got gelded the other day. Theo was supposed to get done as well but he didn't bring enough drugs to do both so he will get done next fortnight. :/ Anyway Hero was a gem, he decided he liked the drugs and was happy to snooze for ages after the procedure. Eventually we managed to convince him to sit up and he just lay there for 15 minutes before he heaved a big sigh and stood. The vet thought it was pretty amusing and made a comment about him being nothing like his mother lol. Since with Xena we had to cover her eyes and sneak out of the yard and hope that she stayed asleep long enough for her to recover before trying to stand it was much easier and pretty stress free. Lou Lou is going fantastically, she comes up to get her rugs on and off, no need to halter her or anything. Leads like a feather, yeilds her hinds and her fronts like a champ, over tarps, around buckets no problems. Been flat out with work but hoping to get some more rides on her soon. I've lost 20kilos now so feel a lot better about riding her lol. It's been good motivation for me! Theo and Lyra are doing well too, easy babies, lead and get there feet done no problems but I'm pretty much leaving the kids alone to be horses for now. Xena... Well she's still a bit of a basket case. Leads like a feather, yeilds her fronts and hinds like a pro. I can catch her in the paddock but it's always approach and retreat before she will stand to be caught. Rugs on and off she's fine, had her feet done but have to be cautious. Still HATES being touched. Tolerates it, but hates it. She seems to really enjoy leading work and moving her legs but there's still a lot of mistrust. She likes to understand and once she knows she gets the correct answer you can see her visibly relax and drop her head for a pat on the forehead. She won't eat out of a bucket if I am holding it though and she absolutely will not take any kind of food out of your hand. In fact if you hold food out and she accidentally touches it with her muzzle she freaks right out. It's a bit bizarre. I've been tossing around the idea of doing some clicker training with her. I've never done it with horses but I've done quite a bit with dogs. I don't know if it might help her in the sense that she could learn that she can control her environment to get things she wants by modifying her behaviour, also the dogs that I've trained have really enjoyed it. Not interested in using that method exclusively but feel a bit of a play to help her enjoy human interaction can't hurt. Unfortunately I cant really start that without her taking food off me though so I'm a bit stumped.. Any suggestions?


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## hollysjubilee

Have a very sensitive pony who has been with me almost 3 years and just this spring started learning it was okay to take an alfalfa treat from a person's hand. She will now eat out of a held bucket and stand for fly spray on both sides while she's eating. She comes to be haltered if I hold out the halter so she can put her nose in it herself. If I make moves toward her, she will head the other direction. I have to move her away on purpose if I see her thinking of leaving, and then ask her to come to me. She has to be the one to choose to come since she has been manhandled in the past and has a reinforced fear of being trapped and hurt.
I don't see how clicker training could hurt, and since you have an understanding already, it makes sense to use it.
Even if you don't, though, with time and consistency and fairness, I am sure your mare will relax more and more as she feels safe.


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## karliejaye

Will Xena take treats from you if you toss them on the ground in front of her? I know it's not ideal, but maybe that could be a start to her clicker training. I am not a huge believer in positive reinforcement or clicker training for most horses, but I absolutely think it might be a fantastic stepping stone for her!
Thanks for the update! I had been wondering how they (and you) had been.


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## TessaMay

She may already be past this point, but when using clicker training with a horse who is wild or frightened of humans you actually start without treats for the obvious reason that they won't take them from you. You need to give them a reward and food is usually the most motivating, but for a horse who doesn't want contact with human's, retreat can be just as motivating. At least at first.

I tried to find a good video of this because I'm not always the best at explaining, but had no luck... 

Basically, you start by getting as close to the horse as you can without frightening them or causing them to run away. Stand there quietly and when they look at you with ears forward, click and walk away. The horse will learn that by looking at you (calmly), she is making you go away, which is her reward. You then up the stakes by coming closer as the horse will stand for more. 

You never click or retreat if they walk away or ignore you. If you push a little too far and she walks away, stand and wait for her to stop and try again. This will teach her that standing gets you to leave, not walking away herself. Eventually your goal will be to walk up to her and have her stand for a touch of some sort before you click and walk away. 

Other ideas would be teaching her to grab a treat off the ground for her reward. Or having a bucket right there (but on the ground) that you toss it into.


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## OoLaurenoO

Good ideas thanks guys. I already do quite a lot of approach retreat work similar to what you are describing. She will walk up to me now after a short period of approach retreat. I guess when I have trained dogs particularly free shaping they have loved it! Great idea about the bucket on the ground. Maybe I could start with her in the round yard and toss a treat into a bucket at a distance. I might give it a try, just have a play with something like maybe putting her head down and just see how she goes.


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## TessaMay

One of the first things that a lot of clicker training books/courses have you do first is work on a "head down" cue to use in stressful situations. You could use the bucket to kind of cover two things at once: head down and teach her what the click means. 

*click* toss a treat in the bucket.


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok guys I figured I was well over due for an update. Well I've owned these girls for a year and a half (or so) now and man has it been a roller coaster ride. The kids are turning into delightful little ponies who are pretty easy going about everything, Lou Lou is going well with her training and the orphans are both loving life. Unfortunately Xena's lameness is just as bad as it was when she first arrived. Some days I feel like it looks to be improving but then the next day she is limping around again just as bad. Although she is holding her weight I can't help but feel perhaps I am making the wrong call to keep her going..  she is obviously quite painful even just walking around the paddock and although her handling is coming along she still would much prefer I leave her alone with the other horses. It's a difficult call as I've become quite attached to her after all the work it's taken to bring her around but ultimately I think I'm just avoiding the enevitable.. So far no definitive diagnosis for the lameness, X-rays came back clear, but the vets feel that after all this time it's unlikely to improve at this stage. So that's a bit of sad news that I'm still struggling to decide just what to do. The vet could do some contrast scans, and we could do a nerve block to look into it further but not sure if it will be worth spending the extra thousand, two thousand or more to find the exact cause only to likely reach the same conclusion.. I guess I'm not really sure what to do at this point. Anyway, I'll attach some photos of the crew on a slightly brighter note. It's feet day today so will be bringing them all in shortly for the farrier. Hope you guys enjoy.


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## LoriF

TessaMay said:


> She may already be past this point, but when using clicker training with a horse who is wild or frightened of humans you actually start without treats for the obvious reason that they won't take them from you. You need to give them a reward and food is usually the most motivating, but for a horse who doesn't want contact with human's, retreat can be just as motivating. At least at first.
> 
> I tried to find a good video of this because I'm not always the best at explaining, but had no luck...
> 
> Basically, you start by getting as close to the horse as you can without frightening them or causing them to run away. Stand there quietly and when they look at you with ears forward, click and walk away. The horse will learn that by looking at you (calmly), she is making you go away, which is her reward. You then up the stakes by coming closer as the horse will stand for more.
> 
> You never click or retreat if they walk away or ignore you. If you push a little too far and she walks away, stand and wait for her to stop and try again. This will teach her that standing gets you to leave, not walking away herself. Eventually your goal will be to walk up to her and have her stand for a touch of some sort before you click and walk away.
> 
> Other ideas would be teaching her to grab a treat off the ground for her reward. Or having a bucket right there (but on the ground) that you toss it into.


I've seen a video with mustangs doing what you describe, I'll see if I can find it.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well I figured I would give you guys an update on the team. I had another thread going and it came up so here it goes. Lou Lou has officially bested me. I've sent her off to the trainer to be professionally broken. I just got to the point where I felt like I was making her worse every time I got on.. I dropped her off yesterday and the trainer seemed optimistic. 'Wow she's nowhere near as bad as I thought she would be after talking to you on the phone' were her exact words. I'm hopeful she will go well there. The kids are all great. Growing like weeds and basically hanging out being kids. Unfortunately Lou Lou's baby - Lyra has developed the itch. It's under control with rugging and ointments but it's unfortunate.. Xena (the Pali mare) not going so great. She's still a total basket case really. One day she will go ok, the next she will try and kill me, herself, the fence, everything basically.. Give her a week off and it's like she's never been touched. She is still just as lame as the day I brought her home. The vet said the next step is to send her to the specialist for an ultrasound/nerve blocks/contrast X-rays but he said it's unlikely to change the outcome since she is still not even paddock sound. After discussing it with my trainer and the vet I've come to the heartbreaking decision to have her put to sleep. Even if she were the quietest most lovely horse in the world paddock companions are a dime a dozen around here and she's definitely not that. I did toy with the idea of working on her more and rehoming her but at the end of the day I couldn't stand it if she ended up at the sales or the doggers and she's just to dangerous to even contemplate rehoming any time in the near future, if ever.. So that's sad but I don't see any alternative really. I've been super slack with pictures but here's one of the two orphans Theo and Loki. Theo's a year and a half old now and already in a 5'9 rug. He's going to be a big boy AND he has finally decided that yep, he is going to be black.


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## EliRose

I'm sorry that's the decision you had to come to  I hope Lou Lou comes along well with the trainer.


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## ShirtHotTeez

OoLaurenoO said:


> Well mum and bub are doing super well today!! He is eating and drinking like a champ and she has settled right down. I'm still staying away from baby but she lets me into the yard to feed and pick up the poo. He's just so **** adorable!!! I've kept Lou Lou and Lyra in the yard next door because Xena gets upset when I try to turn her out into the paddock. Can't wait till I can put them out together and watch the foal antics!!  still need a name. Haven't found one that feels quite right yet. Lyra got her halter on for the first time today. She's not a fan lol but I'm sure she will get used to it.


Just found this thread and reading right through. You have done so well for them what a tragic story from their previous owner!

Lyra looks so fat! Looking forward to getting up to date.


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## egrogan

I always get so excited when I see you've updated this thread. Sorry to hear that the most recent news is a bit of a mixed bag, but you've given Xena a chance few others would have and I sympathize with the tough decision you've had to make. 

Do keep us updated on the babies though if you can- they're looking good!

Is life on the farm back to normal after the flooding, or are you still in rebuilding mode?


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## phantomhorse13

Agree that you have gone above and beyond for Xena. Sounds like you are making the kindest decision possible in her best interests.

Look forward to hearing about Lou's progress with the trainer (and you, the trainer will be working with you both right?).


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## ShirtHotTeez

Oh, I am so sorry to hear about Xena. You have done amazingly for all of them and it is not your fault that she can't forget the beatings she got before you got her. You gave her many months of great care, and your very hard decision means a peaceful end, no more hardship. Still going to be one very hard day. :hug:


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## OoLaurenoO

It's almost back to normal. Everything's been repaired there's just a lot of material still lying around the paddocks from the shelter that was washed away as well as the old fences. We have picked all the wire up and piled up the tin and timber but the tractor is broken currently so it's just sitting in the paddocks. Sadly that means the paddocks with the junk in them are not able to be used for the horses (accident prone as they are) but the cattle and sheep are out there so that's good. I've sent Lou Lou to be backed so the trainer is working just with her for now. When she comes back I'll have my trainer fine tune me some more or possible look at going somewhere to get some more lessons. As my trainer is technically a farrier he's pretty busy but I mostly need someone yelling at me to look up and sit up straight like a million times a ride. My current riding horse Kye is so quiet you could sit backwards if you want. Fanging around on him I've really let some of those bad habits sneak in.


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## OoLaurenoO

And here's the pony kids. Getting their winter fluffier on. Because what's the point in an update without pictures.


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## OoLaurenoO

Oh and an update on Lou Lou. The trainer says she's one of the sweetest mares she's ever worked with. She's super happy with her ground work so far and thinks she has a great foundation to work on. Maybe we will make a kids pony out of her yet!


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## OoLaurenoO

And the boys un rugged.


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## stevenson

such pretty Kids ! lol. Glad lou lou is turning out nice. 
good luck with fixing everything from the floods, and getting things cleaned and
cleared.


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## Blue

Thank you for updating. My notifications don't always come through so missed so much.

Just wanted to let you know that I've had to make that same difficult decision for exactly the same reasons. It's heart breaking but best in the long run. 

The kids look wonderful and so happy and relaxed. Good job.


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks for all the kind words about Xena guys. I still feel like I am giving up on her a bit but I just don't see any other option. Yes the kids are very cruisey about basically everything. They are all turning out very nicely. Hero (Xena's foal) is actually the smoochiest of the bunch. His current favourite past time is hanging his head over Lyras back and trying to kiss my face while I'm doing up her belly straps. Every time. A bit annoying, but super cute. He's the first to come up in the paddock for a pat and a smooch. I'm still haltering them to put their rugs on of an evening. They always stand solid but I don't want any bad habits to develop. The plus side is that the halter is a huge non event now and they are easy to catch even in the ten acre paddock so that's a plus.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well tomorrow's the day.. The vets coming, the excavator is organised. She's yarded, has her halter on. Currently munching on some hay without a care in the world. To be brutally honest I feel like a horrible person, I've totally failed her and I really hope I don't regret this decision further down the track..


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## ShirtHotTeez

:hug: :hug:


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## egrogan

Will be thinking of you today. You've done so much for her and the final kindness of not letting her bounce around to places that won't care for her as you have.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Lauren, you have NOT given up on Xena and you certainly have NOT failed her. The goal of any mother, human or animal, is to have their progeny survive and thrive to carry on the next generation. You've done that for Xena. Hero is well-looked after and is safe and happy. Think about Xena's quality of life. She's probably in constant or near-constant pain, not to mention the mental anxiety and anguish of her various issues (whatever they may be). You should feel proud that you did as much as you could for her and that you're caring for her colt to the very utmost of your ability. Anything less is an insult to Xena.

:hug:


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## EquineBovine

I know it doesn't seem like it but it's the right thing to do.
You have done an amazing job but sometimes that's just not enough.
Hats off to you and all the love in the world for the bubs xoxox


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## Zexious

For what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing.
You'll be in my thoughts today.


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the kind words. It went as well as could be expected.


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## KigerQueen

she had her baby and lived the end of her life happy and in peace. you ended her life ALOT better than letting the injury continue to age would have. and you saved her from a horrendous death.

you did something most people could not and would not. and that makes you an amazing person.


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## anndankev

Oh Lauren,

I am so sorry that Xena is gone, and for the torment you are putting yourself through in making your wise decision to let her go. 

I want to quote here a section from your very first post on this thread:



> Now to my current predicament.
> 
> I few weeks ago I purchased a pony mare as a bit of a project. (Little Buckskin I named Lou Lou) The information I have on her is that she was mustered up with a mob of wild horses from a large property that was owned by a mine that now wanted to begin to develop it. The woman I bought her off had owned her from about 6 weeks and had done very little handling. She was very thin but with a large belly but looking you couldn't tell she was in foal. (I thought she was just wormy as I've had them like that before) Anyway, I brought her home, put in a few days of good handling, wormed her, vaccinated her and then got her checked by the vet. Surprise surprise she was heavily in foal. Her udder was present and empty, and the vet estimated her age at about 13 years old. Im assuming she has had multiple foals before.
> Once I found out she was in foal I contacted the previous owners to see if I could chase up any more history. When I spoke to them they didn't know anything more but gave me the number of the woman who organised the sale. (The mob was sold off the back of a truck on the way to the doggers.)
> They also mentioned that her sister had another mare from the sale mob (They bought two and one sister got one, the other sister got the other) I was pretty reluctant to take on another horse after just finding out my one project pony had just turned into two but once they showed me the photos I felt so horribly sorry for her that I went and picked her up.
> 
> This is where the story gets really sad.
> 
> The second pony (A palomino I named Xena) Was very emaciated. She had a pretty serious looking injury to her back off side hoof and she was totally terrified. I have worked with some difficult horses but this was like nothing I have even seen before. She was being kept in a cement backyard, hardly enough room for her to walk around and lie down. She had been flogged within an inch of her life. (The boyfriend made a show of demonstrating how he felt with her before I swiftly put an end to that!) He informed me straight off the bat, she kicks, she strikes she's stubborn. (He seemed to think that the horse throwing itself over a fence and onto the ground while being flogged demonstrated stubbornness) Even writing this down makes my blood boil!! So we ran her onto the float and I wormed her and vaccinated her in the float. For the first 24 hours I fed her only a limited amount of grass hay and she pooed straight dirt. I can't believe she didn't colic. I got the vet out straight away to check her leg and also got her scanned to see if she was in foal. (I figured she couldn't be very far along if she was in foal and I was considering terminating it if she was due to her horrible body condition.) When the vet tested her he was as surprised as me that she was also heavily in foal. He said if it was a regular horse he would estimate she was due in 2-3 months but due to her malnourishment she may be further along and the foal might just be small. He said the foot wasn't good but it wasn't infected and he estimated it was injured about 6 weeks ago. (They mentioned she cut her foot on the tin when they first got her) Even so sedated she had to lean against the fence to stand we still had to twitch her to stop her from kicking the absolute s*** out of the vet. He said at this stage it wasn't worth putting her body through the stress of the sedations needed to try and treat the foot now. It was to much risk for her and the foal so we are going to revisit it once she's a bit better handled and the foal has been born. It also looks like she has foaled before (judging by her udder)
> 
> I'd like to point out at this point that these people only had these horses for 6 weeks!


And these pics from one month after you got them. A very heavily pregnant LouLou, and an equally pregnant Xena although obviously not obviously pregnant at all. 

The pic of Xena also shows a pic from when you first took her in, the pics were taken only one month apart.


















And here is a pic of Xena a few days later, taken while you were singing I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts to her as it seemed to calm her down.












Know that I am saying all this with a tear in my eye, as I have from the first been reminded of my Chief by the expression Xena had in the photo you posted of her in the saleyard just after her mob was mustered. 

By your story this photo was taken after her wild capture and she already had a healed over leg injury. Lou Lou is in this same picture, in the background.

This photo was taken before a subsequent leg/hoof injury must have occurred, and left her with no hopes of becoming sound and pain free again.

This photo was taken before she went through the starvation and horrendous beatings from which you saved her. And save her you did.










Thank you Lauren, for saving and sharing these ponies and more.


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## ShirtHotTeez

Thanks for that review anndankev, and I'm howling now!!!

Lauren you gave Xena every possible chance, and made her life happy for the last few months. Without you she would have died in fear and pain and misery a long time ago. And Hero would have died too. Because of you Xena knew a level of peace she never had before even though she could never totally trust, it is not a peaceful life for a horse in the wild. And Hero will always be a reminder for you. Let it be with peace and happiness that you did so much for his mum


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## OoLaurenoO

Anndankev I read your reply quite a few times and I am still a bit lost for words. It's sure been one hell of a ride so far with these ponies and today was definitely a heartbreaking low point. Thank you for reminding me just how far we have come since those first few weeks. Lou Lou is due to come home from the breakers soon, she is doing very well and the kids come along in leaps and bounds every day. But honestly I really can't thank all you guys enough. Your thoughts, ideas and suggestions have been so invaluable to me and it is very comforting being able to talk about this with people who have been there since the beginning and know the story. It has really helped me alot, today especially so thank you. I would send you all chocolates but I can't afford it because I have way to many horses lol.


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## ShirtHotTeez

pic update of lou lou and the kids?


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## QtrBel

I sat and reread the entire thread as I have not kept up with much of anything lately. Anndankev thanks for pulling everything together in the above post. Such a heart warming, heart breaking and poignant journey. Hugs


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## OoLaurenoO

I don't have any nice ones I'll have to take some. Here are some I took the other day while stuffing around and rugging up. Hero is a massive busy body and is all over you when you're in the paddock. Leroy (my friends horse who is currently living at my place) doesn't really like the kids a whole lot but he knows if I'm out there that there's no squabbling aloud and Hero likes to take full advantage of the time to smooch all over him.


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## OoLaurenoO

And one of Loki I grabbed this morning. Fluffy little moose.


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## KsKatt

OMG Anndankev, you did sum up this whole lifetime perfectly!
Lauren, I said lifetime because for the babies, this is their whole lives so far, and for Xena, well you gave her a lifetime of love and care, even if it was for a short time. There is no questioning every single point that Anndankev made. I doubt anyone could have said it better.

You will grieve, missing her and for all that was denied to Xena. Yes she should have never been abused and yes it would have been wonderful if you had been able to give her more good time. But, what you gave her, and the others is priceless! Remind yourself of that as often as you can.


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## OoLaurenoO

Well it's 1am and I'm up doing temp checks on a baby of a different kind! I run a small mob of alpacas and one of my girls was acting off. I have only had her maybe six months and she was supposed to be empty. Keep in mind alpacas don't show pregnancy like horses. They don't develop a very big udder and because they are so long they don't usually get much of a belly. I didn't think to much of it until this morning when she was clearly showing signs of labour. All signs were good for pre labour. Rolling, hanging by herself, up and down up and down. Vulva was dilated and udder looked the goods but that was as far as it went. She wasn't progressing. I was hesitant to interfere as she wasn't actively pushing or straining and didn't appear distressed but something didn't feel right. By the time five hours had passed (the can pre labour for up to six hours) I was checking her and she allowed me to go right up to her so I decided to have a feel. Both legs and head were back. I could feel the crias chest and the neck snaking around but that was it. I immediately called the vet and she talked me through pushing the cria back and getting the head around. (Which is much harder then it sounds with that long neck!) I managed to get her in the right spot and mum pushed her straight out. Much to my surprise she was alive!! Stood within 40 minutes and nursed within the hour. As its winter here it's freezing and even rugged and in the stable she got a little cold last night and was a bit lethargic this morning. After warming her up and giving her an enema she bounced back but it will be a long night of temp checks to make sure she stays nice and warm. She is double rugged and yep that's a sock on her neck! Mum is eating/drinking and looking after her beautifully. So incredibly lucky! Thought you guys might like some pictures.


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## Bondre

Congratulations on your alpaca cria! And well done for manoeuvring her successfully into place so her mum could do the job. I've had several chest presentations like that with the goats this year, and it's way worse than a breech presentation. Not always so easy to find the head and bring it round, as you have to push the kid further inside to make a bit of space and the goat keeps trying to push it out and undoing your efforts. I guess there's a bit more room inside an alpaca, which helps - but that long neck must be tricky. 

It's such a great feeling when you resolve a difficult presentation and are rewarded with a live offspring and a very relieved mother


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## Blue

Well done! Adorable


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## LoriF

Great job in getting that baby out. I love alpacas and llamas, very cool animals. That face in the middle picture kills me. So cute.


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## anndankev

I'm so looking forward to more about this little Llama baby.
To whom you have given your *'Help'* (as this thread is so aptly named).

For there is not just the 2 pony mares and babies, there is Theo, and Loki, and a new orphan this year (?), and your work at a Vet Clinic, and with previous rescues, and now this Llama mom and baby.

Would you give some consideration to having this thread moved from here in the Horse Breeding Forum to Member Journals?

We would just leave its thread name the same: *Help*​


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## OoLaurenoO

Yea sure I'm happy for it to be moved.  Would probably be best as its grown a lot from the original post and isn't so much a breeding thread anymore!


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## ShirtHotTeez

Do you think we should celebrate with some new pics @Lauren?? :sheepish smile:


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## anndankev

OK, thread is moved to Member Journals, with a re-direct note that will show up in Horse Breeding for 30-days.


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## OoLaurenoO

I am so slack with taking pictures but I will definitely work on getting some in the next day or so. I was hoping to get the kids in today and have a play but it's been poring rain all weekend. Lou Lou's coming home on Tuesday so I'm super excited about that! I'll be sure to post some updates when I get her home!!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well I rode Lpu Lou today for the first time since she's been back. Work has had me from dawn to dusk all week so it was my first real chance to have a play. I am stoked. She's green and she only really knows how to follow her face but what more can you ask for really. Walk trot canter all went well. Still needs a ton of work but within my grasp now so super happy about that. Rode her through the paddocks to the neighbours, their horses ran the fence line and she was cool as a cucumber. I'm going to look into getting some lessons to help us both along working on her transitions and getting a bit of a concept for bending and working more off the leg but she didn't buck, bolt or act silly so I'm very very happy. I measured Theo and Loki today. Theo is 14.3 hands at the wither and 15 hands at his bum. He string tested at 16.1 inches so I think that means he will get to be about 16hh? Does that sound close to the mark given his current height? He will be two around the end of September. Loki is 13.2 hands at the wither and 13.3 at the bum. He string tested at 14.9 inches so should mature around 15hh? He is only 9 months old though and I seem to remember it's best to do the string test after they are a year old? Anyway, I promise some pictures are coming!


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## EquineBovine

Well done! Sounds about right with the heights but who knows?! Can't wait for the photos!


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## OoLaurenoO

Ok here you go! Sadly I've still been drowning at work and haven't had a chance to see the horses much in the daylight. Luckily my sister is up visiting and she kindly offered to rug the horses for me. I was a little apprehensive as no one but me has ever really handled them at all but she's a pretty handy horse woman and had no trouble with them. Phew. Her boyfriend even managed to get some long awaited photos for you guys. Enjoy.


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## karliejaye

That shot of them all in a straight line is too cute!


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## ShirtHotTeez

Very cute, they look adorable. Thanks to yr sisters boyfriend for the pics


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## Blue

I'm so impressed! Can;t wait for more updates. Really, really good job!


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## OoLaurenoO

Thanks guys, rode her again today. She went very well. Started working on getting a bit of flexion, nothing to hard but she had a lot of great tries. Then went for a ride up the road. My sister took Kye so she had a levelheaded friend with her. She went super well. Only had one little spook at a particularly terrifying flower bed which caused her to bump into Kye which surprised her even more! Recovered immediately and after Kye went over and checked it out she decided she could too. Anyway, very happy with her today.


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## OoLaurenoO

Also, I'm looking at getting some lessons but if anyone has any handy tips for me that would be great. Just I guess looking for some excercises to help me set her up to get a good concept of flexion. So at the moment I'm just opening my inside reign nice and wide to turn her in a circle and applying my inside leg. Naturally she just drops her shoulder and falls into a tiny little shape somewhat similar to a circle lol. I just keep my inside leg on and push her up until I feel her crossing her inside hind across to the outside track and then I release the pressure and let her walk off straight with a good girl and a pat on the neck. Other excercises I know is the spiral, but I feel like she needs a bit more work before we get to that one and in the past I've also put them up against the fence and applied my leg until they took a sideways step. And then I know nothing beats figure 8's, small circles and lots of them. Man it's been so long since I've had to educated a young horse. I really noticed a big difference in her from the beginning of the ride to the end, she picked up on it quite well which was great. My sister actually lost a strap off the saddle so we went up and down the paddock in straight lines looking for it which was handy because we got to practice our turns at either end but with a nice break in between. Anyway, there's a lady down the road who I have seen giving lessons so I'm going to look into that. Hopefully I can find someone nice and close.


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## tinyliny

ok everybody, come in real close . . . now, the plan is . shleimc shifleshlej ogus[cjofff;e sjesjlejtnjeljt . . now, don't tell anyone~


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## OoLaurenoO

Well I've been stalking the forum, reading up on threads but haven't been posting much. I figured I may as well update my journal. Not much has been happening sadly. Winter is making my life difficult. Leaving in the dark and getting home in the dark is a real hassle and works been so flat out its leaving me feeling a bit run down. I'm hanging out for those longer days and hoping work settles down soon. Horse wise sad sad little has been going on. I've been working on teaching Lou Lou how to come when called. She's actually going really well. She will only come when you're within about ten metres of her atm but it's in the big paddock so I'm pretty happy with her progress. Short days and tons of rain has basically put a halt to me riding her for the last few weeks. The ground is so wet and slippery atm that even when I manage to get enough light it's really to wet to ride, I figure a spell will probably do her some good anyway. I try to do something small with them all every day when feeding and rugging. Small step back off pressure, respecting my space, step away from pressure, lifting their heads and letting me do the rug straps up instead of stuffing their face with feed. General good manners stuff really. I've taken a week off at the end of the month and two weeks off in the middle of October. I'm looking forward to a break from work and planning on getting all the horses in daily for a bit of school time. The kids will be two in a month or so so they can get some work with the saddle and bridle, have a play, Loki could use some more work on his leading, he's not bad but could use a bit of sharpening up. They all could really, get them a bit softer. Lou Lou will be brought back in and then hopefully after a couple of weeks of good work by then the days will be getting longer so I'll be able to ride her during the week. Hopefully I'll be able to take her out to a few shows. It will be good for her to get out and about, see the world. Anyway, couple of photos. Theo's 15hh now and turns two next month. He's finally starting to look like a horse. Hero's hit 13hh (hooray) was concerned he would be the size of a Shetland pony for a while there, he turns two in November.


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## anndankev

Theo is so tall, dark, and handsome!

And the ponies, so cute. Hero's mane. LOL

Is that Loki? Very stout build.

Thanks for updating.


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## OoLaurenoO

No the bay horse is Kye, I don't have any recent photos of Loki cause he looks like a yack cross giraffe at the moment.. Every time I take his rugs off I just shake my head. Hoping he evens out a little soon cause man he's all over the shop at the moment!


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## OoLaurenoO

Well Loki has had a massive growth spurt! He was 13hh on the 8th of this month and he is now 13'3. Theo's 15'1 at the wither and 15'2 at his bum. Sorry for the horrible photo but it was raining and getting dark and I was about to rug up when I though man, you look less ugly today, so I took a couple of pictures. Lol I mean that in the nicest way of course but he is actually starting to even out a bit and start to look like a horse. I think he will be a handsom man!


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## jaydee

This journal has been closed due to prolonged lack of participation by the author. Journals that have no active participation by the author for a period of time greater than 18 months will be considered abandoned and will be closed until the author asks for them to be reopened.


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