# Buckskin Or Grulla



## minihorse927 (Aug 11, 2008)

looks buckskin


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

There appears to be a dorsal stripe. That would make him a dun. I don't think grulla (unless he's VERY sun bleached), so bay dun. It's also possible for him to have cream, making him a buckskin dun (some call it dunskin).


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## LauraB (Nov 11, 2008)

I have heard people call horses that are his color "sooty buckskin".


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

CheyAut said:


> There appears to be a dorsal stripe. That would make him a dun. I don't think grulla (unless he's VERY sun bleached), so bay dun. It's also possible for him to have cream, making him a buckskin dun (some call it dunskin).


you took the words out of my mouth...lol


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

A Grulla can have, and often does have, a dorsal stripe but from the pictures I agree with everyone's assessment of being a Dun.



> *American Quarter Horse Association (AQHA) - Grullo. Body color smoky or mouse-colored (not a mixture of black and white hairs, but each hair is mouse colored); mane and tail black; usually has a dorsal stripe and black on lower legs. *


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## somersetfarms (Jan 6, 2009)

Isn't a grulla a black dun? 
This horse does not appear black at all.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

iridehorses said:


> A Grulla can have, and often does have, a dorsal stripe but from the pictures I agree with everyone's assessment of being a Dun.


A grulla WILL have a dorsal, because a grulla is a black horse with the dun gene


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

He looks like a darker buckskin. He doesnt have that "mousey grey" of the typical grulla.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT (Jun 8, 2008)

He looks to be a darker shaded buckskin. He doesnt seem to have the "mousey grey" shade of grulla.


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## Moxie (May 28, 2008)

I'm sure I'm wrong, but isn't the zebra stripes on a grulla's legs a huge factor in it being a grulla?


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I'd say sooty buckskin.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

This is one of those that the white is covoring too many of the indicators so you are not going to be able to tell just by his current pictures. A smutty buckskin and a grullo (black dun) can look identical. 

Duns do have several indicators, however not all dun horses have all those indicators. These include dorsal, leg barring, shoulder shading, and a face mask. However - the smutty/sooty gene that causes countershading can create an illusion of these on a non-dun horse. On top of that - This horse has white where a lot of those indicators would be. 

Do you have pictures of the parents (I don't trust registered colors - those can be wrong)? They can be a clue. Otherwise you will need a DNA test to know for sure. 

Somersetfarms - Yes, grullo is a black-based horse with the dun gene - but the dun gene is also a dilution gene and will dilute the black coat down. I've seen grullos A very similar color. You can see some at the bottom of this page:
Equine Color - Horse & Pony Color Genetics Information


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

Gulla can be a mousy color... here is the pic off from AQHA


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

Moxie said:


> I'm sure I'm wrong, but isn't the zebra stripes on a grulla's legs a huge factor in it being a grulla?


dun factor can come in many forms... some have more then others meaning the stripes may be more pronounced on some then on others, but yes you are right.

dark points (or darker red in red duns) on ears, face (or cobwebbing), shading on shoulders
zebra strips


but all must have dorsal strips.

From IBHA
http://www.ibha.net/colors.htm
Grulla 

Grulla is also an intense color. The body color can be mouse, blue, dove or slate colored, with dark sepia to black points. Grulla (pronounced grew-yah) has no white hairs mixed in the body hairs. Grulla horses have the dorsal and shoulder stripes, and leg barring.


here is a little info from AQHA:
AQHA - COLOR GALLERY


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I think he's a dun, because of the dorsal stripe on his back.  Buckskins don't have those.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Also dun doesn't shine and buckskin can so I think he's dun too.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

ponyboy - not sure what you are talking about "shine". 

Poptartshop - actually buckskins can have a stripe going down their back - its call countershading and can easily be confused with a real dorsal. Countershading is an effect of the smutty/sooty gene. 

Oh - not sure if the OP wants to do this, but I know some people shaved their duns' dorsals down to the skin - just one spot of it. The stripe went down to the skin, but the stripes that were due to countershading did not go to the skin. I do not know if this is true for all, but it might be.


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

i dont have pictures of his mom or dad i know his dad is a black tobiano and that hes the only offspring that isnt a black/tobiano . as far as the dam i know shes a qh thats all . 
I


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

i dont have pictures of his mom or dad i know his dad is a black tobiano and that hes the only offspring that isnt a black/tobiano . as far as the dam i know shes a qh thats all . 
I have always though that he was too mousy for a buckskin but thats just my opinion i have always had appys and thier colors are just as they apper but i have become colbys rider i just wanted everyones opinion on his color never thought Dun though


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

i did forget to mintion in the summer hes alot more smoky color in the back and almost black on his front if that makes a diffrence


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## saddleEMupCOWGURL (Jan 5, 2009)

I once showed a grulla and she also had the dorsal line but she was more greyish... so i believe you have a dun/buckskin on your hands, dear


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## danastark (Jul 17, 2008)

I would say dun. I had a grulla and he was definitely grey, no brown on him at all.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I forgot about the dorsal stripe, seeing as he has one....I'd say dun.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Rebelappy said:


> i dont have pictures of his mom or dad i know his dad is a black tobiano and that hes the only offspring that isnt a black/tobiano . as far as the dam i know shes a qh thats all .
> I have always though that he was too mousy for a buckskin but thats just my opinion i have always had appys and thier colors are just as they apper but i have become colbys rider i just wanted everyones opinion on his color never thought Dun though


Grulla is a type of dun - just with a black base. If he was a dun it would be a grulla.

So from the sounds of it, we really need mom's info. We know he got the black & tobiano traits from dad. Now we need to know if mom passed on agouti + cream (which would make this guy a smutty buckskin) or if she had dun (making this guy a grulla). Is there any way you could find out more info on the dam? Call the breeder and see if you could get a couple pics of her?

BTW - the smutty/sooty gene can cause a regular buckskin to take on a more mousy look. That is why you can't know for sure on this particular horse until you get the dam's info/pics or get a DNA test done. UC Davis has them - get the test for the cream gene (their Dun test isn't 100%) - if he has cream, then he is a buckskin, if he doesn't have cream then he is a grulla/black dun.


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## Rebelappy (Dec 22, 2008)

well case solved hes a sooty buckskin i guess his dam is a palomino


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## beju22 (Nov 10, 2012)

He is a smutty buckskin. i work for a breeder and we had one over the summer.


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## OurLizardsHope (Feb 19, 2012)

Super pretty whatever he is!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Looks to me like either a dunskin (buckskin dun) or a brown dun


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

There is absolutely zero doubt that he's carrying dun.

I am torn between whether to call him a grullo (black + dun) or a browskin dun (brown + cream + dun) though. The thing is, you can't just discount grullo. There are so many shades of grullo that it is entirely possible that he is one. They can range from the silvery gray color to more brownish.

This is grullo









but so is this
Cher and Try | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Add onto that the fluffy winter coat and colors can be interpreted in many different ways.

I could guess more accurately if you had pictures of him all slicked off in the summer, but as it is, the only way to tell for sure would be to have him tested.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I hate to break it to you guys, but your answering a zombie thread from 2009.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Aah!









And I'm usually so good at checking the dates!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm not seeing a dunskin he looks sooty buckskin to me he doesn't have that peachy color of a Dunskin. OP do you have a picture of his back so we can see his whole dorsal. If the edges are real crisp he is most likely dun if the edges of his dorsal a smudgy then I say counter shading. 
Here's a pic of my dunskin to compare yours to.
















Here's another dunskin dorsal








Here's a counter shading stripe on a bay Arabian


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Lol just saw the date haha


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

smrobs said:


> Aah!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOVE the Picard facepalm! Wish I was on my laptop. I have a Picard/Ruler double facepalm that is great.

There seems to be a new member (beju22, I think?) who is digging up old threads from 2008 and 2009.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> LOVE the Picard facepalm! Wish I was on my laptop. I have a Picard/Ruler double facepalm that is great.
> 
> There seems to be a new member (beju22, I think?) who is digging up old threads from 2008 and 2009.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL, I love Picard. I liked him so much more than I ever liked Shatner.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Yes! Picard rocks! 

Jonathan Frakes (Riker) isn't too bad, either. I had a huge crush on him because he plays trombone (I play trombone, as well). Lol. I have this meme with a "glamour shot" of Jonathan Frakes in his Starfleet uniform that says "Commander William T. Ruler: The Chuck Norris of Star Trek".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barrelracer111 (Jan 1, 2013)

Buckskin!!!!!!!!


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Ahh the ghost thread strikes again!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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