# TWH for endurance in West Australia



## Joe4d

the trot out at the vet checks can kill you even if the horse is sound. Vets will say he isnt. They arnt used to seeing gaited horses. You have to run faster just shy of slow canter speed to get them into a smooth gait. Or they will get stuck between two gaits, or be doing a gait in the front and a trot in the bag and look all discombumalated.
Also it is a trot out and back, so do that trot out (or gait) STOP, slowly turn, and gait back,dont gait in a tight circle, walkers arnt built for that and will look lame.
Speaking from experience walkers just dont pulse down like Arabians. I have been hitting a wall on this and need to either get out of the sport of face reality and get an Arabian that isnt completely batpoo crazy.


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## usdivers

*Re Trot out*

You are correct about the trot out. The Vets over here have never seen a TWH before, so I am hoping to educate them at his first training ride, otherwise I will have to go back to Arabs .


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## Brighteyes

Does your Walker have a nice canter? If so, canter where you can. It's less tiring than a gait. Try to avoid gaiting quickly when you could just canter. The gait isn't as energy efficient as the trot, so be warned. Some horses really can't do it all day. Whether your gaited will do well in endurance is hit or miss. Some of them pulse down fine (rarely like Arabs though), but some just... Don't.

Trot outs are a killer! Does your horse pace or trot in hand? If your horse is inclined to trot, trot him _fast_ at trot outs. The faster the trot, the less jumbled it is and the quicker they break into it from a walk. Practice your trot outs. _Energy_ is important. Your horse needs to react and take off quickly to get a clean trot.

Some gaited horses always head bob at the trot. So you'll have to pace in hand.

If he paces (or gaits), pace slowly. _Generally _(depends a lot on the horse) a slow, "collected" pace with a lot of energy looks better than a strung out pace. Practice. Get a buggy whip and tap his hind quarters if he gets lazy. It's kind of like putting a horse on the bit. You want energy from his hindquarters to collect in the halter. If that makes sense. Not pulling on you or running ahead, but you need to feel it.


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## usdivers

*Re Trotting out*

He has a lot of energy in his running walk. He does the running walk in hand very well and quite quick. Before his first 40km, I am going to try and get the aussie vets on board as well. 

Good info re cantor vs gaiting on the trail. I know it is going to be really hot and miss with him, but he has so much energy on the trail, I thought I would give my Arab a rest and take my TWH into the novice horse catorgory and see how he goes....especially he is such a nice comfortable ride as well


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## phantomhorse13

usdivers said:


> You are correct about the trot out. The Vets over here have never seen a TWH before, so I am hoping to educate them at his first training ride, otherwise I will have to go back to Arabs .


A suggestion I find helpful in showing people not familiar with gaited horses how to judge soundness is to watch the hips and shoulders (versus watching the leg movement). If the hips and shoulders move evenly, the horse is sound.. because gaited horses may do all kinds of 'weird' things with their legs, but they only drop a hip if they are lame (same as a 'normal' horse).

Can't wait to hear about your adventures with the walker!! I think LSD is the key to building the base of any new endurance horse, regardless of the gaits it uses.


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## usdivers

Thanks for that tip. I will keep it in mind if the vets give me any grief. The LSD is going well with the big guy, he really steps out, averaging 12 km/hr...I am really just giving him his head on the LSD and letting him step out at his own pace to start with.


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## usdivers

*Comanche*

Here is a pic of my big guy


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## Jsutton

I have worked with TWH my whole life and from my breed history lessons, their gait is what is they are meant to do on the trail not a canter. I am just learning about competitive endurance riding but I have owned and ridden a well conditioned TWH that can do 50 miles in a day without sweating, except for under the blanket, in southern August heat and humidity. Don't know how that would com-pair to Australia thought. I think that the breed is extremely well suited to the sport.


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## Joe4d

Jsutton said:


> I have worked with TWH my whole life and from my breed history lessons, their gait is what is they are meant to do on the trail not a canter. I am just learning about competitive endurance riding but I have owned and ridden a well conditioned TWH that can do 50 miles in a day without sweating, except for under the blanket, in southern August heat and humidity. Don't know how that would com-pair to Australia thought. I think that the breed is extremely well suited to the sport.


umm...


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## usdivers

Jsutton said:


> I have worked with TWH my whole life and from my breed history lessons, their gait is what is they are meant to do on the trail not a canter. I am just learning about competitive endurance riding but I have owned and ridden a well conditioned TWH that can do 50 miles in a day without sweating, except for under the blanket, in southern August heat and humidity. Don't know how that would com-pair to Australia thought. I think that the breed is extremely well suited to the sport.


Thanks for the input, this is my first TWH, I have always had Arabs before. I am really enjoying legging him up. Doing alittle transition work with cantor on my property, but on the LSD days I am going to stay away from cantor for a few months, just going to concentrate on producing some good legs with running walk on the long LSD days. He seems to enjoy his days out in the bush. I have noticed that even when the day is quite hot, he is not sweating a lot. Heart rates on return around 42 at the moment.


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## Jsutton

In response to Joe4d: It's not. That was one exceptionally great horse (and big too). There are examples in every breed of horses with great stamina. An that was a fairly rude post btw.

To USdivers: That is what I would do for training. I call it lots of wet saddle blankets not LSD (new horse term! yay!) but is is what walkers do best. And a head bob is a good thing! You can even put a jingle bell or two on the bridle to help the horse keep his own rhythm (if the judges wont dislike it) It makes such a pretty sound! And if you work with him you should be able to find his slow gait and fast gait. It is a matter of how collected the front end of the horse is. Each horse is different but a slow collected gait sounds like what you would want to use for when the vet checks his movements. It will be less crazy looking.


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## usdivers

Jsutton said:


> In response to Joe4d: It's not. That was one exceptionally great horse (and big too). There are examples in every breed of horses with great stamina. An that was a fairly rude post btw.
> 
> To USdivers: That is what I would do for training. I call it lots of wet saddle blankets not LSD (new horse term! yay!) but is is what walkers do best. And a head bob is a good thing! You can even put a jingle bell or two on the bridle to help the horse keep his own rhythm (if the judges wont dislike it) It makes such a pretty sound! And if you work with him you should be able to find his slow gait and fast gait. It is a matter of how collected the front end of the horse is. Each horse is different but a slow collected gait sounds like what you would want to use for when the vet checks his movements. It will be less crazy looking.


He seems to be working it out himself, of course I do some running rein stuff in the round yard before we go out on the LSD's just to keep his topline in good condition and for him to get his rhythm right before we go out. He is only about 4 and half at the moment, so I am very surprised at how well for such a young horse he is doing. I don't think I ever had an Arab of the same age with the same temperment to training that this big guy has


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## Jsutton

Walkers start out strong early and if cared for only pick up steam! 

He will most likely keep changing, and maybe growing, until into his 7th year. That is when they are considered fully grown. Steady training and vigilance for stress injury are the name of the game for a sound horse 25 years down the line.


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## usdivers

Jsutton said:


> Walkers start out strong early and if cared for only pick up steam!
> 
> He will most likely keep changing, and maybe growing, until into his 7th year. That is when they are considered fully grown. Steady training and vigilance for stress injury are the name of the game for a sound horse 25 years down the line.


Thats what the previous owners figured as well, as a result I am keeping the status quo with the equiijewel hard feed they had him on, just adding the usually endurance supplements that I usually add. Plus won't be doing anything crazy with him in regards to training. Our national endurance race comes to our state in 2014....so I will see how he is travelling when that gets here...as that is the goal at the moment.

I ride HWT...and to tell you the truth the times he is doing at the moment, if he can sustain those times, they would have been good enugh to win state champs for 2011 and 2010


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## Joe4d

Those that post preposterous claims on a forum should be prepared to get called out on them. Have you ever actually even rode 50 miles in a day in any temperature ? Not to mention high heat humidity of August ? as in under 12 hours ? Well I have, and it is no joke and noone that actually ever has would make a claim like you have and expect to be believed.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> Those that post preposterous claims on a forum should be prepared to get called out on them. Have you ever actually even rode 50 miles in a day in any temperature ? Not to mention high heat humidity of August ? as in under 12 hours ? Well I have, and it is no joke and noone that actually ever has would make a claim like you have and expect to be believed.


I am just thankful we don't get that high humidity in Perth. I have rode in stuff like that in the States, and it is certainly no fun. In Australia we get the dry heat, in some instances the temperature will really get up there. One of the reasons I work my horses before lunch. Mind you, I do work them alittle in the heat to get use to it, if I know I have a race that comes up at the end of the season, which is the start of our summer here (Dec 1).


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## usdivers

Jsutton said:


> Walkers start out strong early and if cared for only pick up steam!
> 
> He will most likely keep changing, and maybe growing, until into his 7th year. That is when they are considered fully grown. Steady training and vigilance for stress injury are the name of the game for a sound horse 25 years down the line.


One thing I like to do on all my horses to help protect against stress injury to the legs is to use the Vtec Sports Medicine boots on all four legs when training. I have not seen anyone over here doing it yet, and I do get some strange looks, but I just want to look after the legs at all costs. In relation to boots (as my guys are always barefoot) I always boot up with the renegade boots if the ground is hard. I am very lucky, the place where I train has an abundance of really soft sand trails that go for miles.


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## Joe4d

Those sport boots, ( the ones that wrap the lower legs,) Arnt not very common in endurance. Building up ligaments and connecting tissues is more important for long term soundness. Those boots can cause horrendous injuries to the skin if sand or debri gets inside them. If they are tight enough to offer support they are tight enough to restrict bloodflow. I seriously feel like that they have no use on an endurance horse. Renegade hoof boots are pretty well liked.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> Those sport boots, ( the ones that wrap the lower legs,) Arnt not very common in endurance. Building up ligaments and connecting tissues is more important for long term soundness. Those boots can cause horrendous injuries to the skin if sand or debri gets inside them. If they are tight enough to offer support they are tight enough to restrict bloodflow. I seriously feel like that they have no use on an endurance horse. Renegade hoof boots are pretty well liked.


Thanks for the input Joe ....the Vtec ones are pretty special, with hi tec material that is light weight and breaths really well. I take your point and will watch out for those things. But I must admit I have been using them for going on 3 years now, and both of my horses have never been stronger...  maybe its all the good LSD I do, and not the boots


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## phantomhorse13

Joe4d said:


> Those sport boots, ( the ones that wrap the lower legs,) Arnt not very common in endurance.


I wouldn't call them uncommon. All depends on what works best for the individual horse.

One of my bf's geldings goes in sports medicine boots all the way around because he interferes. He has done many years of endurance rides -- including top 10 finishes -- in them with no issues. Like any piece of tack, you just have to make sure they fit properly and stay put on trail.

This is us on trail during the Old Dominion 100 a couple weeks ago:


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## usdivers

phantomhorse13 said:


> I wouldn't call them uncommon. All depends on what works best for the individual horse.
> 
> One of my bf's geldings goes in sports medicine boots all the way around because he interferes. He has done many years of endurance rides -- including top 10 finishes -- in them with no issues. Like any piece of tack, you just have to make sure they fit properly and stay put on trail.
> 
> This is us on trail during the Old Dominion 100 a couple weeks ago:


Excellent point...at the end of the day, if you watch and listen to your horse he will tell you what works and what does not work


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## usdivers

Commanche's training is going well so far. Doing about 50 km's a week at the moment. In probably 2 weeks will be picking up the pace a little on his 15 km training rides.


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## RhinestoneCowgirl03

I have a question, WHAT DOES LSD STAND FOR? Thank you.


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## Joe4d

long slow distance,

Well I am back from Broxton Bridge Plantation. Moonlight ride. Was 100 all day. despite keeping the pace down to 6 mph, I just couldnt get my TWH to pulse down at the first vet check. Pretty much his last ride. Just have to face reality that it is too much for him. Congradulations to my GF for her first completion. She missed Leatherwood by 2 minutes. Shari rides a mostly TB.


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## usdivers

*Same here*

I have been finding the same thing with the training of my TWH in relation to pulsing down. Will be doing more hill work in about 4 weeks after he has been legged up a little more.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> long slow distance,
> 
> Well I am back from Broxton Bridge Plantation. Moonlight ride. Was 100 all day. despite keeping the pace down to 6 mph, I just couldnt get my TWH to pulse down at the first vet check. Pretty much his last ride. Just have to face reality that it is too much for him. Congradulations to my GF for her first completion. She missed Leatherwood by 2 minutes. Shari rides a mostly TB.


Do you use one of those walking horse bits? I am using a loose ring snaffle at the moment, but his gait is getting a little sloppy, so I was thinking of getting a walking horse bit. What do you think?


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## Joe4d

no I use a very mild curb bit. I dont believe in putting boat anchors in my horses mouths. Usually I can collect him down or heal him out of the rough spots in his gaits. I generally ride one handed loose rein. I can say, "Hey stop that" to my mare and she smooths out. Make sure they know rough is bad. Shouldnt need a big bit or tight reins.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> no I use a very mild curb bit. I dont believe in putting boat anchors in my horses mouths. Usually I can collect him down or heal him out of the rough spots in his gaits. I generally ride one handed loose rein. I can say, "Hey stop that" to my mare and she smooths out. Make sure they know rough is bad. Shouldnt need a big bit or tight reins.


Do you do any lunging with her with running reins?


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## Joe4d

no, I generally lunge over and around obstacles at a walk with a lunge line. Reins are menat to be used from the saddle. I am no where near coordinated enough to try to use them from the ground. LUnging in the round pen free or with a line I teach my horses to moove out or slow down with voice commands. I dont get overly concerned with "Propper" or specific headset or steps or leads. Figure the horse knows whats best. I just deal with smooth feeling from the saddle.


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## usdivers

Has anyone tried a no bit bridle on their TWH. I have been using a light rider rope bridle on Comanche for a few days on the property, and he seems to go well in it...the only down side is that he kind of zig zags with it, and does not keep the good line he keeps in his snaffle.


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## Kato

I occassionally ride my barn owner's 2 TWH horses. They are both riden in Dr. Cooks bridles. The mare does great in it all though sometimes her breaks don't work too well but that is a training issue. The gelding goes great in it.


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## usdivers

Kato said:


> I occassionally ride my barn owner's 2 TWH horses. They are both riden in Dr. Cooks bridles. The mare does great in it all though sometimes her breaks don't work too well but that is a training issue. The gelding goes great in it.


Thanks for that. I will have a look the cook bridles.


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## Joe4d

id save the money for something you actually need.
Answer me this, is there something the horse CANT do in a snaffle you think he will do bitless ?
Yeh some horses are ok bitless, untill you really really need some brakes. There is absolutely nothing you can do bitless that you cant do with a bit. Your horse can still eat grass and drink with that snaffle bit. Argualbly you may be able to increase O2 intake with a hackamore. But honestly your limiting factor on your horse is gonna be heat management not a bit of extra o2. I am looking into the evap cooler neck wraps and body blankets.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> id save the money for something you actually need.
> Answer me this, is there something the horse CANT do in a snaffle you think he will do bitless ?
> Yeh some horses are ok bitless, untill you really really need some brakes. There is absolutely nothing you can do bitless that you cant do with a bit. Your horse can still eat grass and drink with that snaffle bit. Argualbly you may be able to increase O2 intake with a hackamore. But honestly your limiting factor on your horse is gonna be heat management not a bit of extra o2. I am looking into the evap cooler neck wraps and body blankets.


I have a good light rider bitless at the moment, like it, on account of the extra O2 available to the horse, and as my guy is a non-arab...it probably could not hurt. But because he is still relatively a young boy, I am going to keep him in the snaffle, especially because he is eating and drinking on the trail well with it.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> id save the money for something you actually need.
> Answer me this, is there something the horse CANT do in a snaffle you think he will do bitless ?
> Yeh some horses are ok bitless, untill you really really need some brakes. There is absolutely nothing you can do bitless that you cant do with a bit. Your horse can still eat grass and drink with that snaffle bit. Argualbly you may be able to increase O2 intake with a hackamore. But honestly your limiting factor on your horse is gonna be heat management not a bit of extra o2. I am looking into the evap cooler neck wraps and body blankets.


MaxGenetics | Equine


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## Joe4d

yep think of the blanket, keeping it in cooler with an icy slush, put it on at vet checks. I use the same type of product on me whey I shot alot. They do work.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> yep think of the blanket, keeping it in cooler with an icy slush, put it on at vet checks. I use the same type of product on me whey I shot alot. They do work.


I think that is an excellent idea, especially when we have TWH we need all the help we can get


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## usdivers

Well I am afraid my training is going to have to be changed. I just got a good job where I work away for 2 weeks and then I am home 2 weeks. I hope Comanche does not lose too much of his condition when I am working away .


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## Joe4d

sounds like me when I was on tug boats. Worked out ok, as the 2 weeks I was home I was off so could easily ride every other day.


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## usdivers

Well I guess we will see. I have another rider who has offered to work him a little while I am gone, I have been thinking I might take her up on it.


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## usdivers

*TWH heart rates*

Comanche has been doing low impact soft sand training for a couple of months now. Thinking of taking him for his first 40km training ride. The problem is, his heart rates are not low like I am use to with Arabs. I am afraid my TWH endurance experiment might not be panning out. Has anyone else had problems getting their TWH heart rates down. 

For example, we will go out and do a 20km training session in soft sand. When we get back, and I strap him down for 10 minutes, his heart rate is still in low 50's.

Anyone having the same results?


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## Joe4d

LOw 50's is good !.. wish I could ge there. Usually our rides in the US require a pulse down of 64 to 60.

Its all about the temperature. Sorry cant do celsius, but anything over about 85 degrees and I am unable to get Bo to pulse down, even when riding at barely finnish speeds.
My second horse emma has several things going for her that make her much better suited. I am just now getting her in shape, Planning on a 25 miler (41km) Limited distance ride in Nov. See how she does. SHe has a much more efficient gait than bo does. Bo has a high stepping rack, emma has a true flat walk/ run walk and can really move out at a shuffle. We shall see. Hopefully I can at least turn her into a happy consistent finisher.

Also not sure what "strap him down" means. Are you using lots of water ? water on water off, ice water on also, concentrating on neck, whithers and shoulders., Avoid the butt, you can cramp them.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> LOw 50's is good !.. wish I could ge there. Usually our rides in the US require a pulse down of 64 to 60.
> 
> Its all about the temperature. Sorry cant do celsius, but anything over about 85 degrees and I am unable to get Bo to pulse down, even when riding at barely finnish speeds.
> My second horse emma has several things going for her that make her much better suited. I am just now getting her in shape, Planning on a 25 miler (41km) Limited distance ride in Nov. See how she does. SHe has a much more efficient gait than bo does. Bo has a high stepping rack, emma has a true flat walk/ run walk and can really move out at a shuffle. We shall see. Hopefully I can at least turn her into a happy consistent finisher.
> 
> Also not sure what "strap him down" means. Are you using lots of water ? water on water off, ice water on also, concentrating on neck, whithers and shoulders., Avoid the butt, you can cramp them.


Yep, strapping down, is the cooling and feeding of the horse between legs of endurance or LD's, that is what we call it down under. Where we train all we have is a lot of deep sand, hopefully this means when we finally get out to the LD training site, that we will have lower heart rates.

He is doing 9km/hr with his running walk that he can keep all day, his rack is very high stepping, and very quick at 24km/hr....too bad he can't do that all day, if he could that speed is fast enough over here to win some races


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## usdivers

Well if my TWH does not work out for HW division, I have been offered a nice 9 year old Arab that has tons of potential.


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## usdivers

usdivers said:


> Well if my TWH does not work out for HW division, I have been offered a nice 9 year old Arab that has tons of potential.


Picture of the 9 year old Arab gelding I am looking at.


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## usdivers

*Another Arab prospect*

Another Arab prospect I have in mind if my TWH does not work out


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## Joe4d

all things being equal I'd avoid the black one definitely. Go for the greys or the very light tannish browns. All things being equal, lighter colored horses will handle the sunny hot days better.
Dont believe me ? go jogging in a black tshirt on a sunny day. Or check out the color of Bedouin clothing.


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## phantomhorse13

Joe4d said:


> all things being equal I'd avoid the black one definitely. Go for the greys or the very light tannish browns. All things being equal, lighter colored horses will handle the sunny hot days better.
> Dont believe me ? go jogging in a black tshirt on a sunny day. Or check out the color of Bedouin clothing.


Good thing nobody has told horses like Heraldic that dark-colored horses don't do well in the heat. Also seems suspicious that thousands of years of desert breeding didn't eliminate everything but grey if such a thing actually made a difference.

A good horse is never a bad color. :lol:

A horse's way of dissipating heat is nothing like a person's, regardless of what color shirt they are wearing.


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## Celeste

If you leave the black horse out in the sun, he won't stay black anyway. My "black" horse has faded so that she is lighter than my bay. 
She won't be black again until her winter coat starts back.


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## Joe4d

phantomhorse13 said:


> Good thing nobody has told horses like Heraldic that dark-colored horses don't do well in the heat. Also seems suspicious that thousands of years of desert breeding didn't eliminate everything but grey if such a thing actually made a difference.
> 
> A good horse is never a bad color. :lol:
> 
> A horse's way of dissipating heat is nothing like a person's, regardless of what color shirt they are wearing.


Says the girl on the grey horse, :lol:,,,, 
Whos to say Heraldic may not have done a bit better if he was grey ? My theory isnt so much about dissipating, its about absorbing and reflecting radiant heat. Everything else black in the direct sun is hotter than anything white. Color wont make much of a difference if it isnt in the sun. Nor have any effect on internal heat. But a horse does need to deal with the complete heat load. Not sure if the added amount a black horse will absorb from sunlight adds up to a whole lot, but it is an increased amount. Black could have been bred back in, or it could have existed all along as heat management may have not been an overwhelming concern. Deserts arent always or all hot.


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## phantomhorse13

Joe4d said:


> Says the girl on the grey horse, :lol:


Dream is grey (or green or brown or orange, depending on the season!), but she is not the only horse I have ever enduranced on. The horse I did the 2-day 100 on in cali in the 100+ weather was bay and he did much better than I did in the heat.


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## usdivers

phantomhorse13 said:


> Dream is grey (or green or brown or orange, depending on the season!), but she is not the only horse I have ever enduranced on. The horse I did the 2-day 100 on in cali in the 100+ weather was bay and he did much better than I did in the heat.


Not sure what times in the states you start your racing. But in Australia the longer races are usually started at Midnight or really early in the morning, so then the sun does not play a huge part in heat build up until the sun comes up


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## Joe4d

usdivers said:


> Not sure what times in the states you start your racing. But in Australia the longer races are usually started at Midnight or really early in the morning, so then the sun does not play a huge part in heat build up until the sun comes up



well with the hundreds lasting as long as they do, doesnt seem like any way around the sun. Almost seems like it would be best to start during the hottest part of the day as opposed to the coolest.


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## usdivers

*First ride picked out for Comanche*

Well I have picked out Comanche's first 40km training ride. I have picked the Yarloop ride on the 28th of September, it is a pretty ride, with only a few hills, so should be a good test for the big guy to see if he is going to have a future in endurance. Watch this space .


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## usdivers

usdivers said:


> Well I have picked out Comanche's first 40km training ride. I have picked the Yarloop ride on the 28th of September, it is a pretty ride, with only a few hills, so should be a good test for the big guy to see if he is going to have a future in endurance. Watch this space .


PS...gives the rider (me)...hehe...time to lose a couple of kgs


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## usdivers

Well back from my 2 weeks away! Yehhhh! Comanche get ready! It's back to work


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## usdivers

Well so far so good. I have about four weeks till Comanche's first real training ride which will be a 40 km at Yarloop. All his training so far has been in soft sand and hills. Looking pretty sharp so far. His resting heart rate before we go out for each ride, has been between 32 and 36. Training rides have been between 20 and 30 km's each ride, after about 15 to 20 minutes of strapping, his heart rate has been around 44 each time.

The only problem I have with him is he won't trot in hand . Not sure what to do about that. I have emailed the head australian endurance vet for some advice. I can get him fast walking in hand, but as soon as he starts his running walk I can't keep up. Any TWH owners have any advice.


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## Joe4d

run faster.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> run faster.


Haha.....


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## usdivers

*Me running faster *



usdivers said:


> Haha.....


Well Joe, this is me running faster


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## usdivers

Well I am back at work after a good 2 weeks home training Comanche for his first qualifying 40km race. He is looking pretty good. Looks like the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off training is working. His resting PR has been between 32-36, and his pulse rate post heavy work in the soft sand after doing 25-27 km has been constantly around 44-48. He has not looked tired at all. Looking forward to his first race at the end of the month.


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## Saddlebag

Don't look at the horse but where you're going. He will travel straighter. Give him just a little more lead and discourage him from turning his head in to you. Practise as tho for a showmanship class. The vets are looking for unsoundness as well and it is easier for them and you if the horse travels straight.


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## usdivers

Saddlebag said:


> Don't look at the horse but where you're going. He will travel straighter. Give him just a little more lead and discourage him from turning his head in to you. Practise as tho for a showmanship class. The vets are looking for unsoundness as well and it is easier for them and you if the horse travels straight.


At the moment I am just trying to get him to trot. He is a TWH and that is not his strong suit, as soon as I am confident that he is trotting, then I will be able to practice the way I usually do.


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## Saddlebag

He's a TWH, bred to flat walk and run walk. Do you really want him trotting?


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## usdivers

Saddlebag said:


> He's a TWH, bred to flat walk and run walk. Do you really want him trotting?


I don't have a choice, Australian rules do not make any provisions for TWH's, and they won't let me use the FEI rules for vetting. He is the only TWH in the entire competition. I have been showing the progress I have been making to the head Australian Endurance vet to make sure I am not wasting my time for our first appearance at the end of the month. She says I am doing a great job with him. So at the moment we are on track for his first qualifying run on the 28th.


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## Joe4d

I think the head Australian Endurance vet needs to reach around behind him and pull his head out of his rectum and get the rules fixed to be inline with FEI and every other endurance organization in the world. Seriously cant believe they are being this anal.
If the ride is dual sanctioned I would pay the extra money to enter as an FEI ride. The file a protest with FEI that they are NOT following FEI rules and should loose their sanction.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> I think the head Australian Endurance vet needs to reach around behind him and pull his head out of his rectum and get the rules fixed to be inline with FEI and every other endurance organization in the world. Seriously cant believe they are being this anal.
> If the ride is dual sanctioned I would pay the extra money to enter as an FEI ride. The file a protest with FEI that they are NOT following FEI rules and should loose their sanction.


I know right! To make matters worse, the actual event we are fronting up for is a FEI event as well. But....I still have been told I must comply with Australian Endurance Vetting rules.

I have noticed one downside to teaching Comanche to trot. When we are riding out sometimes, he will drop into a trot, but I just have to give him a little more contact with the bit, and then he will drop into the running walk again.


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## Joe4d

file a protest, they are wrong. If it is an FEI event they must follow FEI rules if you enter as an FEI rider. Be advised though there are a whole string of FEI rules that you now have to comply with.. 
Seriously I would be banging on the door of whoever is in charge of AERE as we speak.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> file a protest, they are wrong. If it is an FEI event they must follow FEI rules if you enter as an FEI rider. Be advised though there are a whole string of FEI rules that you now have to comply with..
> Seriously I would be banging on the door of whoever is in charge of AERE as we speak.


I know you are right. I think I will just let things go for now, and see what happens on the day .


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## Joe4d

Ill try to get a video up of me, I will say even without the gaited bias you need to step it out, your not moving fast enough. The coming towards camera, you can see a stutter in the back. Now I know its a gaited issue. Your horses front feet are trying to gait and back trying to trot, alot of vets gonna call lame. Gotta step it out some.


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## usdivers

Joe4d said:


> Ill try to get a video up of me, I will say even without the gaited bias you need to step it out, your not moving fast enough. The coming towards camera, you can see a stutter in the back. Now I know its a gaited issue. Your horses front feet are trying to gait and back trying to trot, alot of vets gonna call lame. Gotta step it out some.


Thanks for the pointers, his first LD is in about 3 weeks.


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## usdivers

So much for Comanche's first 40km LD. He had a little float mishap about 5 days before the race. He had a little inflammation in his right back leg from the float accident. As a result I pulled him from the race, just was not worth risking further injury .


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## Celeste

Sorry he got hurt. I hope he gets better. 
But what is a "float mishap"? I think we have a cross-cultural communication gap going on here..


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## MangoRoX87

Meaning trailer accident 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tracer

This forum is evil, making me fall in love with TWH's... This is only making me love them more.

I'm also finding this fascinating, since I know very little about endurance riding apart from the fact that I would love to give it a shot one day. Ever since the Tom Quilty (a 160km/100 mile ride to be completed in 24 hours) was held where I live, I've been in love with the idea. I was so confused with the whole 'LSD' thing, I couldn't stop thinking about horses on acid.

I'm looking forward to hearing how you and Comanche go, usdivers  Hopefully there will be no more float mishaps.


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## usdivers

Tracer said:


> This forum is evil, making me fall in love with TWH's... This is only making me love them more.
> 
> I'm also finding this fascinating, since I know very little about endurance riding apart from the fact that I would love to give it a shot one day. Ever since the Tom Quilty (a 160km/100 mile ride to be completed in 24 hours) was held where I live, I've been in love with the idea. I was so confused with the whole 'LSD' thing, I couldn't stop thinking about horses on acid.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing how you and Comanche go, usdivers  Hopefully there will be no more float mishaps.


lol....we call horse trailers "floats" ...don't ask me why


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## usdivers

usdivers said:


> lol....we call horse trailers "floats" ...don't ask me why


It was really a bummer, Comanche was really ready for this LD


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## Inga

I have to say, I am getting more an more interested in endurance. I am too old and too out of shape to do this myself but I am enjoying learning more about it through all of you. 

Hope your TWH can show them how it is done.  

Do any of you know of any Saddlebreds that are doing endurance? I have heard that some of them do very well. I can imagine they would since they seem to be able to go forever and that is when they are not in the condition the endurance horse is.


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## usdivers

Inga said:


> I have to say, I am getting more an more interested in endurance. I am too old and too out of shape to do this myself but I am enjoying learning more about it through all of you.
> 
> Hope your TWH can show them how it is done.
> 
> Do any of you know of any Saddlebreds that are doing endurance? I have heard that some of them do very well. I can imagine they would since they seem to be able to go forever and that is when they are not in the condition the endurance horse is.


We do have a few Saddy's in the competition here in Australia, but none of them have done very well. Hard to find an unraced one that does not pace. But generally they have pretty good feet. All in all it's hard to compete with Arabs. Over here the competition is sparce in the HW division, that's why I think my TWH may have a chance in that area.


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## phantomhorse13

usdivers said:


> We do have a few Saddy's in the competition here in Australia, but none of them have done very well. Hard to find an unraced one that does not pace. But generally they have pretty good feet. All in all it's hard to compete with Arabs. Over here the competition is sparce in the HW division, that's why I think my TWH may have a chance in that area.



They race Saddlebreds over there? Or did you mean Standardbreds?

People have looked at me funny when I talk about having worked with arab racehorses.. I can't imagine racing saddlebreds!


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## Inga

I have heard that Saddlebreds do well in endurance. I don't know of any first hand. 

Here is one thing I found about a Saddlebred endurance racer. http://www.saddlebred.com/files/endurancearticle.pdf

I think people tend to overlook this breed for "other disciplines" that are not "prancy show horse" related. When you see them in the ring, you likely don't think, "man, I bet they can go all day." That said, I have had several that I swear, I couldn't wear them out. Riding all day on long trail rides they would come back ready to go and my friends horses (other breeds) were dragging their butts behind them. This is why I wondered about them for endurance.


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## usdivers

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## usdivers

My bad!...I thought u meant standard bred , in regards to saddlebred I don't think we have any in the competition over here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Inga

I am curious. IF someone were wanting to get involved in endurance riding. Where would you suggest they start?


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## usdivers

Inga said:


> I am curious. IF someone were wanting to get involved in endurance riding. Where would you suggest they start?


Every country has their own association, if you Google the country you are from and endurance horse riding, the results should point you in the right direction.


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