# How to tell dark bay from dark brown



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

She will have black pointsif she is bay. Legs and muzzle.


----------



## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Her ear tips, legs and muzzle would be black if she was bay.....along with the mane and tail. _


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Browns can and will have black manes, tails and points.

Mostly browns will have lightening of color in these areas - muzzles, flanks, inner forearms and thighs.


----------



## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

It can also depend on the registry what they say your horse's color is. For example, with RPSI they call everything from cherry bay to seal brown just plain "Braun." If you ever plan on breeding Kitty, and want to breed for a specific color, I would go and get her tested for what color she is, which is the only way you can truly tell a bay from a brown.


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

She's registered under AQHA. It looks like her legs have black points as well as her ears, however, her muzzle is quite light.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

From the one pick you have in your horses thing, it looks like she is a brown. Could we see some more pictures of her?


----------



## Pro (Apr 23, 2009)

So would Sam and Spring be brown? Because I've always called them bays, but around their muzzles turns brown in the winter...


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep, I would call them browns.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Maybe it is a regional thing, as I am English, but I have never heard of a brown horse, they are bay, ranging from light to dark bay.
I would describe your horse as a dark bay.


----------



## Pro (Apr 23, 2009)

NdAppy said:


> Yep, I would call them browns.


Thanks


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It probably started as a regional thing, but genetically they are not bay per say. Brown still shows up under agouti, but is a different gene then bay. I suck at trying to explain it! lol


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> It probably started as a regional thing, but genetically they are not bay per say. Brown still shows up under agouti, but is a different gene then bay. I suck at trying to explain it! lol



Thanks for trying, I know nothing about genetics, but I have never heard of a brown horse before. 

I guess I viewed it as my dark bay being described by none horse people as black.


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

So would the only way to tell is if I got her tested? I'm not planning on breeding her ever and it doesn't really matter. I was just wondering.

Here are some pictures that show her colour.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No, with you mare it is pretty apparent. Look at her muzzle. See the lightening around it and see how she is lighter around her stifle area and her elbows? Those are indicators that she is brown.  There_ are_ quite a few horses where it is just hard to tell. I feel pretty confident saying your mare is brown though.


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

So wait..Lola has a really light muzzle..But she definitely looks bay..


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

She is a brown as well.


----------



## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

Isn't it just a different form of Agouti? I thought it was notated as A,t where the t would be super-scripted. Or something like that.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It is a form of Agouti. Bay (A), wild bay (A+) and browns (At) are all forms of agouti.


----------



## Strange (Jan 11, 2009)

That's what I thought. 

I suppose I'm like AlexS. I'd never heard anyone call a horse "brown" until recently. I just see them as varying shades of bay. I mean I always knew there was a very slight genetic difference but technically isn't a "brown" still a type of bay?


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

So a brown can have a black mane and tail and black legs as long as they are lighter in the muzzle and stifle? 

Is it possible for a bay horse to be light in those areas?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If it is light in those areas and is "bay" that means it is actually a brown.


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> If it is light in those areas and is "bay" that means it is actually a brown.


Alright, I was just wondering. Learn something new everyday!

So is it that a certain type of gene is bay when another is brown?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yep. And bay is dominant over brown. A horse can be both Bay (A) and Brown (At) as far as I know. The one that will show will be the bay.  Confusing right?


----------



## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

Wait, now I'm confused, haha. Would my horse be brown instead of bay? Her papers say brown, but in Germany they say brown for everything from cherry bay to seal.


----------



## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> Yep. And bay is dominant over brown. A horse can be both Bay (A) and Brown (At) as far as I know. The one that will show will be the bay.  Confusing right?


Actually, that makes quite a bit of sense (we just finished learning about how genetics work in science). 

^ I think your horse would be bay because of the dark points. Especially if you look at the specific spots (Muzzle, elbows, etc)


----------



## DubyaS6 (Aug 30, 2010)

Hmm...this means my "bay" is brown as well...

She is registered Bay on her papers though.


----------



## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

This horse is obviously "seal brown." A good horse coat chart can be found here.


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> It probably started as a regional thing, but genetically they are not bay per say. Brown still shows up under agouti, but is a different gene then bay. I suck at trying to explain it! lol


would you mind asking a mod, or I can ask, if you start a thread. But would you explain colors and genetics to us who don't know a single thing about it?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sure Alex. I would be willing to put something together. Think we could get members to "donate" pictures to the thread for examples? (to only be used on the thread of course!)


----------



## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I think that would be an awesome idea. It would probably clear up a lot of confusion between colours like what's going on in this thread. 

For the picture donating, I wonder if it would work to find a picture that fits a colour/pattern and then PM the owner for permission?


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

That is a good idea Po.


----------

