# Saddle horn injury help



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Definitely get her into an OB/GYN if you haven't already. If she's still actively bleeding after 5 months not during her cycle I would wonder about potential blood clotting issues or further internal damage that would require a CT with contrast (if that wasn't the CT done at the hospital)or an MRI to diagnose. Lemme say I am NOT a doctor myself, just an EMT, but you're right to be worried.

NOTE: This is the users partner replying to this


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Definitely time for further follow up with a specialist. We, here on the forum, are not qualified to give medical advice.


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## Sumner'sAcorn (Oct 8, 2021)

Hi, I second the post that says follow up with an OBGYN. I wonder if a repeat CAT SCAN is necessary, or maybe (probably) an MRI which can see more. 

Sometimes bleeds don't get caught on the first one because they develop over time, and the first CAT scan was too early after the injury. Best thing is to see a doctor because online medical advice cannot be made with a thorough assessment. 

Ugghhh, I am transitioning to western from english and am already afraid of the horn.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Sumner'sAcorn said:


> Ugghhh, I am transitioning to western from english and am already afraid of the horn.


I grew up riding huntseat and then switched to western as an adult. So far my biggest aggravation with the horn has been catching my bra on it on a trail ride. I now make sure the bottom of my bra is hooked TIGHT, like squeeze my ribs til I can barely breathe tight, so when I go up a steep hill and lean forward, I don't get caught on the horn. 
BTDT and it's embarrassing to say the least.


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## sha2216644 (4 d ago)

Hi, thanks, guys! I'm not looking for medical advice. I'm just looking for opinions and suggestions, and relatable information! I appreciate all your suggestions cause I cant get any doctor to listen to me. Its frustrating!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

sha2216644 said:


> I appreciate all your suggestions cause I cant get any doctor to listen to me. Its frustrating!


Sounds like it's time to let the Mamma Bear out of the box on the next OB/GYN who doesn't listen and can't be bothered to try to drill down and get to the bottom of the issue. How old is she? Have they checked her thyroid and parathyroid? Checked all female hormones? Before the accident was she cycling normally? And when you say she's been bleeding for 5 months, has it been every day, or every now and again for 5 months? Heavy or spotty? How are her iron levels? Is she anemic? How's her energy? How's her weight? Up, down, fluctuating? steady? Keep a diary, and document how many days out of the next several months she is actively bleeding, how heavy, how many pads per day, per hour (if applicable) and be prepared to go into the dr.'s office with your documentation and if necssary pictures as proof. Maybe look for a female OB/GYN who is more of a naturopath and/or specializing in fertility issues.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I've read that at least in the USA, if you tell the doctor you want it noted on the patient's medical file that the _doctor_ chose not to do further testing, they can be more cooperative. I'm not _in _the US so can't speak from any experience in that respect, but if nothing else it's worth a shot. Doctors don't like leaving themselves liable if further testing by another doctor finds that something serious was missed because _they chose _not to look into it.

Edit: this is me talking -- my partner the EMT is actually _from _the US but not home to ask if it's likely to work.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

If your daughter has had vaginal bleeding for five months and the OBGYN isn't concerned, then I think you need to find a new OBGYN. That's terrible. How could they not want to get to the bottom of that???


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## Sumner'sAcorn (Oct 8, 2021)

blue eyed pony said:


> I've read that at least in the USA, if you tell the doctor you want it noted on the patient's medical file that the _doctor_ chose not to do further testing, they can be more cooperative. I'm not _in _the US so can't speak from any experience in that respect, but if nothing else it's worth a shot. Doctors don't like leaving themselves liable if further testing by another doctor finds that something serious was missed because _they chose _not to look into it.
> 
> Edit: this is me talking -- my partner the EMT is actually _from _the US but not home to ask if it's likely to work.


Keep in mind that hospital managers (who are not doctors and nurses and have no liability) have total control over resources and ration heavily. One of their favorite things to do is to change protocols and cut physicians off from being able to order tests and provide care that is needed. They do it to save money and then sit back and laugh when the physician gets sued or gets blamed for a death. Physicians are employees now, and have no control over these people. Government patient safety agencies are not interested in the complaints coming from physicians over this crap because ultimately, these managers are saving the government and insurance companies money too. The centers for medicare actually gives managers bonus checks for cutting down staffing levels, supplies, diagnostics, and altering protocols that cut off the physician from doing what he wants and needs to do. They get away with it on a grand scale because the public will lash out at the physician, because they are being manipulated into thinking that the doctors run the hospitals and call the shots.

These people have also decided to massively cut down allowed RN staffing levels to save money on labor costs. Considering the RN is responsible and liable for all critical tasks and problem solving on a minute by minute basis and she too is hindered by management developed computer based protocols for her patients, it is an epic disaster for management to slash allowed nurse staffing levels and for you to be sharing one RN with 10 critical patients. Especially as management can get away with this and lie and say there is a "nursing shortage", and leave the overstretched nurse abused and blamed if patients don't get care that is only possible if they are not sharing their nurse with other patients. When I say that these guys completely get off on seeing doctors and nurses abused, sued, attacked, and blamed by the public over patient harm resulting from their bad management decisions I mean it. 

Just an FYI, I would switch OBGYNs too, but as they are all employed by the same networks, set up to fail, and gagged by their employers it may be more feasible to go back to the ER and report the constant bleeding and demand another scan. It is faster and may be a better way of doing it. Just keep in mind that nationwide, hospital managers have been instructed by the centers for medicare to ration and cut ER staffing and resources as well, and that it is an epic sh*tshow. The overloaded staff have to prioritize immediately life threatening over urgent, and diagnostics are already cut an overloaded.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Sumner'sAcorn said:


> Keep in mind that hospital managers (who are not doctors and nurses and have no liability) have total control over resources and ration heavily. One of their favorite things to do is to change protocols and cut physicians off from being able to order tests and provide care that is needed. They do it to save money and then sit back and laugh when the physician gets sued or gets blamed for a death. Physicians are employees now, and have no control over these people. Government patient safety agencies are not interested in the complaints coming from physicians over this crap because ultimately, these managers are saving the government and insurance companies money too. The centers for medicare actually gives managers bonus checks for cutting down staffing levels, supplies, diagnostics, and altering protocols that cut off the physician from doing what he wants and needs to do. They get away with it on a grand scale because the public will lash out at the physician, because they are being manipulated into thinking that the doctors run the hospitals and call the shots.
> 
> These people have also decided to massively cut down allowed RN staffing levels to save money on labor costs. Considering the RN is responsible and liable for all critical tasks and problem solving on a minute by minute basis and she too is hindered by management developed computer based protocols for her patients, it is an epic disaster for management to slash allowed nurse staffing levels and for you to be sharing one RN with 10 critical patients. Especially as management can get away with this and lie and say there is a "nursing shortage", and leave the overstretched nurse abused and blamed if patients don't get care that is only possible if they are not sharing their nurse with other patients. When I say that these guys completely get off on seeing doctors and nurses abused, sued, attacked, and blamed by the public over patient harm resulting from their bad management decisions I mean it.


It's like that here too but mostly because the people in power keep cutting our health budget (state and federal) so there's less and less money to treat more and more people. It's only getting worse and our doctors and nurses are angry. 

So I should clarify that _if _you're going to ask to have anything noted on a medical file, you should _absolutely _be polite about it. There's never an excuse to be rude or abusive to healthcare providers. Keep asking, get in touch with a patient advocacy program if needed (good hospitals should have patient advocates available), seek second and third and fourth opinions.


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## Sumner'sAcorn (Oct 8, 2021)

blue eyed pony said:


> It's like that here too but mostly because the people in power keep cutting our health budget (state and federal) so there's less and less money to treat more and more people. It's only getting worse and our doctors and nurses are angry.
> 
> So I should clarify that _if _you're going to ask to have anything noted on a medical file, you should _absolutely _be polite about it. There's never an excuse to be rude or abusive to healthcare providers. Keep asking, get in touch with a patient advocacy program if needed (good hospitals should have patient advocates available), seek second and third and fourth opinions.


I worked in the UK too for a few years and it was like that there. Swedish and Spanish and French RNs I came across all said the same thing. Back home in the USA the nurses here and also Canadian nurses report the same things. It is like our governments and their corporate buddies are embezzling all of the money meant to provide patient care after ripping off the patients with high taxes and high bills. Part of it is a rapidly expanding aging population which is chronically ill and complicated like never before seen in history. It is high cost. BUT governments and healthcare conglomerates seem to be a crime syndicate/ money laundering operation now too, and they don't seem to like healthcare professionals or patients very much.

I can understand patients and families being angry and taking it out on providers, believe me.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

ACinATX said:


> If your daughter has had vaginal bleeding for five months and the OBGYN isn't concerned, then I think you need to find a new OBGYN. That's terrible. How could they not want to get to the bottom of that???


Unfortunately it's all too common... 2/3 OBGYN's I saw during college were incredibly dismissive of my feminine issues. To be completely honest, the one who DID listen to me was a nurse practitioner NOT a full OBGYN. I haven't been back to the OBGYN since graduating college, which I know is irresponsible but they've caused me so many problems and anxiety around medical visits.

OP, I'd definitely give someone else a shot. And if they don't do anything, another one. It's incredibly hard to get proper care in the 'atypical' cases. It may be even worth trying a nurse practitioner instead. Ditto everything @Dreamcatcher Arabians said as well.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Unfortunately with the way things are set up today, we have to go outside of our healthcare systems to find good care and we have to be very forceful as our own advocates. Drs. are set up for 1 patient every 15 minutes and frequently more. In rural areas where there are severe shortages, it's not unusual to wait 6 months or more for non-emergent appointments. You absolutely have to be fearless and unmoveable when advocating for yourself or a loved one, or the system will just shove you off to the side and take the path of least resistance. 

The system can and does fail people all the time. Too many patients, not enough providers, inefficient scheduling, and even one lazy provider or lackadaisical staffing person and it all comes tumbling down. If you can't get good care within the system, then go outside of it and find a doctor who isn't on your preferred network and pay cash. No you shouldn't have to. Yes,m it's expensive. No, it's not as expensivc or painful as losing a loved one or having permanent damage from lack of proper care. Once you get a good diagnosis and sort the problem, you can go back in the system and then force the providers to continue the care that was started by the out of network providers.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

After 5 months, the original injury should have healed. If she's still bleeding I would suspect either a blood clot disorder or something wrong with her hormone levels. Possibly a fibroid or polyp. Has she been in pain all this time? If she's not painful then I would suspect this is more hormone related. It's not unusual for young women to have excessively heavy periods, even if this is continuous and not very period like. 

Any original injury should have healed- if it hasn't healed you would probably have a major infection going on and then you would have additional symptoms such as pain and fever. 

Just be aware that birth control can reduce bone density on a long term basis. But it may be necessary to consider a stronger birth control option to get the bleeding under control. An MRI isn't going to hurt anything either. 

If that fails, I would want a hysteroscopy to look for a cause of the bleeding. There could be something less obvious that isn't showing up on scans. 

Good luck and please let us know how things turn out.


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