# How do YOU handle it?



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Well I think there's a few issues here, 
first - why is he bucking? Because he's bad or because he's in pain? Has every cause of pain been completely ruled out by professionals? Vets and saddle fitters and teeth floaters and all? Is he bucking because he's afraid or is he just being bad because he figured out how to off you?

second- horses can't buck very easily if their head is up - my first focus when a horse starts bucking is to pick their head UP then a tight circle. Head up is great to stop the bucking, but you don't want a rear, so immediate, tight circle. Now I'm sure this horse, as all horses, gives some sort of warning sign, an ear flick, lowering his head, stomping a hing foot... anything, whatever his warning sign is, get his head up and spin him just before he starts.

Please get his everything checked, start with his back and saddle fit and then move on to everything else to rule out pain, most horses don't just buck cause they can. Are you asking him to do something out of his physical fitness range? Can he honestly handle the work your asking? I don't know your situation and am not accusing but not many horses buck just cause they're lazy, some do, but it's rare.


----------



## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Assuming there is NO pain causing this -

I, personally, would one-rein stop him and disengage his hip aggressively. When you disengage the hip you take away his bucking power and if you do it aggressively and for extensive periods it is also a punishment. Then, forget about it, and go back to working like nothing happened.

However, if you are not comfortable staying on, jump off and attack his hip. Jump at him. Make him run sideways. Yield his hip. Back up. Work work work. Sometimes when you jump off it scares them too, like "HOLY CRAP, HOW DID MOM GET DOWN THERE?"

That would be my plan anyway. ^^ Good luck!


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

What exactly are you doing or trying to get him to do when he bucks you off?


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Bucking out a horse???? Not me, never, ever and I used to train for the public. Are you aware that getting dumped off a horse, although rare, can seriously injure or kill you? Take this horse to a trainer and save yourself the torture. Working a horse to the point of exhaustion is not the answer, sure he probably won't be as eager to buck, but he won't be as eager to learn anything either. You want a nice riding horse with manners, get a trainer who can work with you, life is much better that way.


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

The way to stick when they buck is to try to relax, as hard as it sounds, and is, when they buck, but you just have to relax and go with the flow. And it’s pretty much a given that if you are riding a lot of young horses you are going to get thrown (some of my horses didn’t actually start having a buck till they were ridden for a year or two, sometimes they just do it for fun, or just to play with you). Gotta admit though, after I hit 30, the ground looks a lot further away than it used to, and I swear it has gotten harder too. 
I have found a very good way to cut it out of them, even in mid buck, is to have them very soft so that you can disengage their hindquarters. i.e. As their feet are coming off the ground bring the left rein up to your belly button and apply pressure with your left seat bone to -thigh-calf-ankle heel/spur (as far as you need to go) if you have their bits and pieces nice and supple it’ll pull the buck right out of him/her. They need to be soft and respond to it all to begin with, but doing it will also disrupt their alignment even if they aren’t so soft on it, it just won’t be as effective as it could/should be and you may need more pressure to achieve it.
As for teaching them that bucking is bad, I’m not convinced that hitting the work up them is always the best way; mainly for two reasons. Firstly, if they don’t associate the work with what they did wrong in the first place they kind of miss the point of the punishment, personally I think it’s better to deliver the punishment as they are bucking; and secondly, because the last thing I want is for a horse to associate work with anything unpleasant and get sour on it. Probably the best thing to do is to just nip it in the bud as I described above, or if you miss the timing, or they aren’t quite soft enough, just ride them till the give up, some horses, if they get a win on you, will do it more, but if you beat them they will usually start to give it up. If, however, it gets chronic and they do it every time you get on them for example, you can get on them in some heavy sand. I’ve always found a sandy dry creek bed for it, it makes it much harder for them to buck and much easier for you to ride it out of them (and the landing is softer if they throw you); in the few times I have had to try this I found they give it up pretty quick after you get a few wins in some thick sand. Then there’s always the ones who do it for a bit of fun because they feel good too, it’s not always malicious.


----------



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

First off no, he isnt in any pain. 
Secondly, he is bucking me because he has figured out I cant stay on once he does so. thank your for the advice Punk.

Sorrel- Im not afraid of being bucked off or any thing haha I enjoy it but I enjoy staying on and just riding more. What do you mean exactly by disengageing the hip?

usandpets- Im just trying to train/ride my horse(with supervision of course) Like I said he has figured out he can buck me off.

Wares- Actually I happen to be aware. Thanks... first off I have already been bucked off and got a concision, I wear a helmet now no matter what. Secondly, trainers cost money, money isnt as easy to come by as we all wish it was. Yes, horses with manner are wonderful. The ranch down the road im at (very close friends of mine) are currently helping me progress with Cowboy. At the moment I was just getting.. more suggestions on the situation.


----------



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Anrew- Sorry You posted while I was typeing haha

Thank you, that makes sense, once I run in to the situation again Ill try to pull the left rein. My horse only bucks me because he knows I cant stay on, when other ride he wont buck because he knows they can handle it and stay calm as you said.


----------



## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, while I was typing Sorrell posted about disengaging the hip, it’s essentially the same as what I was talking about with the left rein/left seat bone to heel thing. (can be the right side too, just the rein and the seat/leg have to match up, so if you use the right rein you use your right leg and vice versa). And, yep, they can be funny things, they will suss out the person on their back pretty quick and will try all sorts of shenanigans if they think they can get away with it; doesn’t mean they are bad, just screwing with you. And it can be very hard to stay calm and relax, but you’ll get it with practice, not necessarily bucking out a horse all the time, none of us want to have to do that, but just ride a lot, relax in the saddle and have a good independent seat and it will come. Good luck.


----------



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Thank you so much Anrew!


----------



## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

Above all, keep the head up. Sometimes it's hard to remember all the good advice as you're heading skyward. If you keep his head up, he won't be able to get any power into his buck. That may buy you time to start working on the other stuff.


----------



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Yes, thank you Ill defiantly keep that in mind.


----------



## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm going to strongly agree with two points that have previously been made:

One rein stop to disengage his heap, I use to ride a pony that loved to buck, because he knew that he too could dump riders. He would also get me off, until I did some research into the one rein stop.

It won't stop them from bucking most times but it takes most of the power away from the buck. Pulling the horse 'up' with both reins isn't always very effective, it gives the horse something to brace against and can make powerful bucks more easy for them. 

Whereas, the one rein stop - you have control of his head, they aren't able to 'break away' from you. Make sure that he gives to the bit each way and when he goes to buck, just pull his head around to the side. I usually push them around into a small circle at the same time. Most of the time, this will get them to think about where their feet are instead of bucking.

Also, don't expect him to completely stop bucking after the first time. Because this has become a vice, it will take a while to train it out of him. Just stick with it and you will see results.

Also, the relax comment - my horse, occasionally likes to buck when he's feeling very fresh. He also likes to throw quite big, powerful bucks. When he does do it, I really try to relax and absorb my own weigh in my legs and my seat. Instead of tensing up, which will cause you to simply bounce right off.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Running him around the pen until he's sweating merely appeases your fit of temper yet teaches him nothing. Even a horse with more status in the herd wouldn't run him that hard, a short distance then he'd back off.


----------



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

My horse isnt like that, he will test you (im trying to explain) . I needed the input for control, he doesnt buck when he knows you can handle it and then work the snot out of him. Its how we do it anyway. Once he learns I can stay in the seat and show him im in charge and he cant just buck me off he will learn, Hell he could just be doing it to mess with me. We play all the time, but im tired of getting the breath knocked out of me. So he needs to know I dont want to play like that.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I think since you both know he can unseat you, take extra focus to learn his cues. He's giving them, I'm sure. Once you know that first cue of "I'm gonna throw you," then change what you're doing. Take that moment to get him turning and disengage his hindquarters, and try again. At this point, you really need to avoid the buck altogether if you can't stick it. In case you can't avoid it, I would shorten your stirrups a hole or two, get in a western saddle [conveniently equipped with an 'oh snap!' handle] and do your best to cling on and get his head UP and his butt turning. Good luck! Bucks aren't any fun and some horses can be real broncs. =P


----------



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Saddlebag- I've realized that working him in the round pen wont teach him that he has done wrong. But it still helps work him like "Driving him away" like the join up. (Even if you all disagree with that.)


----------



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Thanks Riccil, haha Like ive read Ill keep his head up and ill look for cues, most of the time he just does like a bunny hop. nothing to warn me


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I also do not think your horse is in pain. I think he is smart enough to know that he can buck you off and he does so, only because he can. But, I think it is crazy to keep getting back on him when you know he is only going to buck you off again. Every time you come off, his bad habit is ingrained a little more in him and he becomes more spoiled.

Let me give you a little tip that will keep his head up for you. I have used it for over 40 years now. I have some photos of it if I can find them. I think they are on an old computer that only comes on in 'safe mode' and needs a monitor hooked in to it. If you cannot visualize this, I will try to find them.

I call it a 'cowboy overcheck'. It is actually very close to a driving side-check or over-check and it works like a charm. It goes like this:

1) Leave a halter on under your bridle. 

2) Take a 10 or 12 foot piece of 1/4 inch nylon cord (like you can buy at Wal-Mart ).

3) Tie one end of the cord firmly to the right side of bit where the headstall fastens to it.

4) Run the cord up through the top halter ring (or between the two ropes above the top knot on a rope halter -- my preferred way) and place it behind the saddle-horn with a little extra slack in it.

5) Run it back through the top ropes or ring on the other side of the halter and tie it securely to the top of the bit on the left side. 

6) Then, get the little bit of slack you left behind the saddle-horn, fold it over itself to make a double half hitch and place that over the horn. I leave one long enough for the horse to carry his neck level but not any longer.

This little piece of 1/4 inch nylon cord has saved my a$$ too many times to remember. Any horse that wants to buck will try to put his head down. 99% of them will hit that little cord, jerk their heads back up and this will let you push them on forward like they need instead of pulling them up to save your hide.

I also use an overcheck like this on kids' horses on trail rides to keep them from dropping their heads to eat. I put them on green colts for their first few rides. I start a colt out with one and as soon as I have loped it out, I take it and loosen it off or take it completely off of the saddle-horn. If I have a real fresh horse, I will put one back on until I am sure the horse is not going to try to buck or play. Once I get a horse going real good and he has never tried to drop his head, I do not use one. It is one of those things for me where an once of prevention is worth 10 pounds of cure. 

Then, as already mentioned, teach this horse a 'one rein stop'. Once a horse has been taught (before you need it) to stop and give you his head, you can stop about any bad behavior. It is like installing an 'off button' or 'kill switch'. It really works.


----------



## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Cherie said:


> I also do not think your horse is in pain. I think he is smart enough to know that he can buck you off and he does so, only because he can. But, I think it is crazy to keep getting back on him when you know he is only going to buck you off again. Every time you come off, his bad habit is ingrained a little more in him and he becomes more spoiled.
> 
> Let me give you a little tip that will keep his head up for you. I have used it for over 40 years now. I have some photos of it if I can find them. I think they are on an old computer that only comes on in 'safe mode' and needs a monitor hooked in to it. If you cannot visualize this, I will try to find them.
> 
> ...


This is terrifying advice, it doesn't sound like much of a quick release in case of an emergency. And rope, no less, that won't break. :shock:


----------



## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I agree with Cherie that the more you are thrown off, the more you are reinforcing that the horse can just be done with you. 

To prevent yourself from being bucked off you need a stronger seat, you will get this from endless hours of riding without stirrups, mainly at the trot, on a different horse. 

Before he bucks, I'd bet money that he slows and lowers his head. There are two cues here - don't let him slow, don't let him lower his head. Kick him forward through it, whack him with a crop if you need to.


----------



## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

riccil0ve said:


> This is terrifying advice, it doesn't sound like much of a quick release in case of an emergency. And rope, no less, that won't break. :shock:


It's the same as a Daisy rein or a Grass rein, only homemade…it's not dangerous…and you'll see it a lot on ponies with smaller kids riding.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, there is one, and only one, time I will use a twisted wire bit...and this would be it - a horse that is very prone to bucking. I generally use a loose rein, so I am "fair" about it...I let them know what is in their mouth before I "have to" use it. It won't stop them all together, but it will limit how far they can get their head down so you can "stay on" and ride it out.


----------



## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Missy May said:


> Well, there is one, and only one, time I will use a twisted wire bit...and this would be it - a horse that is very prone to bucking. I generally use a loose rein, so I am "fair" about it...I let them know what is in their mouth before I "have to" use it. It won't stop them all together, but it will limit how far they can get their head down so you can "stay on" and ride it out.


I don't think this is very good advice at all.

A twisted wire bit can be very dangerous, specially in the hands of an unbalanced rider when a horse is bucking. Putting stronger or heavier bits in the horses mouth isn't going to teach it anything, other than bits mean pain.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> I don't think this is very good advice at all.
> 
> A twisted wire bit can be very dangerous, specially in the hands of an unbalanced rider when a horse is bucking. Putting stronger or heavier bits in the horses mouth isn't going to teach it anything, other than bits mean pain.


The question was how would you (universal you) handle it. That is how I would and have handled it with excellent results. The OP did not say she was an unbalanced rider. It is a harsh bit, if that is what you meant - and it has its place. But, I agree...a twisted wire bit does not belong in the hands of an _inexperienced_ rider, or for someone that rides the bit. The very best rider can lose their balance on a bucking horse....the idea is to prevent it from bucking to the degree you lose your balance.


----------



## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

No amount of bits is going to stop a bucker (I had one that wold buck even with me hauling on the bottom rein of a pelham) and a twisted wire bit will just make him worse because you are introdcing serious pain into the equation and then run the risk of him going from bucking to bolting which is infinately more danerous.

Whilst the idea of Cheries daisy rein is not a bad one to stop the problem, the fact that it is rope and attached to the horn of a saddle (which if you ride english doesnt exist) could cause Major issues and damage. it also doesnt solve the root of the problem and you can bet that as soon as you take it off they will start again. If ou want to try this as a short term measure then you can buy a much safer daisy rein (same principle except will snap if the horse gets hung up on anything)

First thing I would do is rule out any form of pain

Personaly when I had stan, he used to buck for kicks and giggles with very little warning (sometimes no warning) if I felt it coming I alwas hauled his head round to my knee (as in actualy touching my knee) and then spin him untill he was blowing hard (once span him into a ditch). If I didnt feel it coming I trained myself to relax into the first buck and then haul his head round before he could put a 2nd one in!


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

JazzyGirl - Can you be more specific as to what and when he bucks? Is it when you first get on? When you ask for him to lope/canter? Leaving the barn or going to the far side of the arena? Are you asking him the same thing each time he bucks? Or is it that he is spooking?

Just a warning about pulling his head to the side. Don't pull to the same side each time. Alternate sides if you can or he will anticipate it and avoid it. 

The best advice I can give is like others have said to ride it out. Relax and sit deep into the saddle. Depending on what you are actually doing will vary what comes next. If he's refusing to go forward, I would try to push him forward thru the bucks. If he is being forward and you are trying to slow him or keep him going at a slower pace, I would stop him, back him up, do circles and figure 8s. 

The one rein stop can help during the buck, but like I said before, don't always do it on the same side. It not only gets his head to the side but it takes the power away from his rear end. I think you had asked about disengaging his hind end? That is when he crosses his leg in front of the other. The only problem is you need to train him and work on it before you need to use it. If he's bucking you off from the get go, it'll be difficult to work with him on this.


----------



## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Missy May said:


> The question was how would you (universal you) handle it. That is how I would and have handled it with excellent results. The OP did not say she was an unbalanced rider. It is a harsh bit, if that is what you meant - and it has its place. But, I agree...a twisted wire bit does not belong in the hands of an _inexperienced_ rider, or for someone that rides the bit. The very best rider can lose their balance on a bucking horse....the idea is to prevent it from bucking to the degree you lose your balance.


By all means, it does have its place. But, the OP has stated that they do not sit bucks well. Which is why I do not see it being the safest option for the horse and rider, I think all other options should be tried first.


----------



## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

@Cherie:

I would love to see a video or photo of what you described. I'd like to try that.


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

While someone may think it is 'terrifying advice', I think it is a lot more terrifying to get bucked off on the rocks where I have always lived. It is also far worse to let horses get spoiled and take a chance on them seriously injuring someone. 

It is hard telling how many hundred of horses I have ridden with this little overcheck type of thing and have never had it cause a problem. To the contrary, using it has allowed me to ride and retrain literally dozens of horses that were sent to me to because they bucked their owners off at will. It has also prevented all of the colts I started (I used to start more than 50 head a year) from ever bucking with a saddle or bucking on their first few rides. In all of these hundreds of horses, I have run into, maybe 5 or 6, that could buck hard enough with their heads up to buck me or some other good rider off. Two of them ended up in the PRCA on professional bucking strings. They were REALLY GOOD at it.

I have suggested this little gimmick to many people over the years and have gotten a lot of feedback as to how effective it was and how it had allowed the people to actually ride and go on with the training on horses they thought they were going to have to get rid of or put down. 

It will work on an English saddle, but it is not as good at keeping a horse's head as high as a saddle-horn will. I just tied a piece of nylon cord between the two breast-plate ring on the front of the saddle and ran the overcheck cord through it. I have used it on horses that would drop their heads after going over a jump. I did get dumped one time when a horse went over a jump and dropped his head so hard he pulled the saddle halfway up his neck. He did not have real high withers, but he sure was not round-backed. It was 35 or 40 years ago and I still remember how I met the ground head-first. But, it evidently impressed him, too, because he did not drop his head and buck after that.

Just like using a nail to let a horse 'teach himself' that biting is not a good idea, this little gimmick is something the horse 'runs into' when he drops his head and he gives himself instant release when he brings his head back up where it belongs. The release is much quicker and better and any rider can give so the horse learns much faster. 

The OP can do as she likes, but this is probably her best method to actually get this horse ridden out by her.

Like her original question "How would you handle it?" Well, this is how we handle every incident that we think could even lead to the problem she is having now.


----------



## Horse Poor (Aug 20, 2008)

IN MY OPINION….

The only thing running his butt off in the roundpen is going to do is make a horse stronger/fitter, and does nothing to address bucking. And "respect" gained from groundwork doesn't automatically translate to respect in mounted work…you have to earn it from that vantage point as well. Having an "older family member ride the snot out of him" does nothing to help you ride him. Personally, I think your problem stems from inconsistent riding. The people who ride him that he does not buck with is the same level of riding he expects from you and you can't give him what you don't have to give.


----------



## BlooBabe (Jul 7, 2012)

I honestly think you should worry more about you than the horse. If you learn how to hold on and sit the bucks then as previously mentioned, he won't buck. I use my thighs and calves to hold onto my hose so you could start by finding exercises to strengthen those muscles, I like the leaning against a wall knees bent 90 degrees and holding a 5 lb medicine ball between my thighs while rolling back on my heels, or ride other horses and practice riding without stirrups. I recommend break away daisy or grass rein. It will help stop the buck while you lean to hold your seat and even if he bucks again you'll have built enough muscle to be able to hold on. That's assuming that he really won't buck if someone knows how to hold on.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

AnrewPL said:


> The way to stick when they buck is to try to relax, as hard as it sounds, and is, when they buck, but you just have to relax and go with the flow. And it’s pretty much a given that if you are riding a lot of young horses you are going to get thrown (some of my horses didn’t actually start having a buck till they were ridden for a year or two, sometimes they just do it for fun, or just to play with you). Gotta admit though, after I hit 30, the ground looks a lot further away than it used to, and I swear it has gotten harder too.
> I have found a very good way to cut it out of them, even in mid buck, is to have them very soft so that you can disengage their hindquarters. i.e. As their feet are coming off the ground bring the left rein up to your belly button and apply pressure with your left seat bone to -thigh-calf-ankle heel/spur (as far as you need to go) if you have their bits and pieces nice and supple it’ll pull the buck right out of him/her. They need to be soft and respond to it all to begin with, but doing it will also disrupt their alignment even if they aren’t so soft on it, it just won’t be as effective as it could/should be and you may need more pressure to achieve it.
> As for teaching them that bucking is bad, I’m not convinced that hitting the work up them is always the best way; mainly for two reasons. Firstly, if they don’t associate the work with what they did wrong in the first place they kind of miss the point of the punishment, personally I think it’s better to deliver the punishment as they are bucking; and secondly, because the last thing I want is for a horse to associate work with anything unpleasant and get sour on it. Probably the best thing to do is to just nip it in the bud as I described above, or if you miss the timing, or they aren’t quite soft enough, just ride them till the give up, some horses, if they get a win on you, will do it more, but if you beat them they will usually start to give it up. If, however, it gets chronic and they do it every time you get on them for example, you can get on them in some heavy sand. I’ve always found a sandy dry creek bed for it, it makes it much harder for them to buck and much easier for you to ride it out of them (and the landing is softer if they throw you); in the few times I have had to try this I found they give it up pretty quick after you get a few wins in some thick sand. Then there’s always the ones who do it for a bit of fun because they feel good too, it’s not always malicious.


This and Cherie's Daisy Rope are probably the 2 best pieces of advice you're gonna get. I don't have any, I just learned to ride out the bucks with my first horse. I also did lots of riding without stirrups, to the point where now, in a tight spot I will kick out of my stirrups to get my leg long on the horse and to get real deep in the saddle. 

I just had ocassion to use my 'independant seat & legs' this weekend at a show. I started riding as a very young child, learned to ride out bucks as a teen and now at 55, just rode out another 'interesting' situation. 

It was Skips first show, heck first time he's ever been away from home, and we were working in the warm up pen and he was getting bored, so I took him just outside the pen on the grass and we were doing figure 8's and serpentines and stuff without interfereing with the others warming up. There was a gun show going on in the Expo Hall across the way and I guess the fire dept decided to come check it out. I have no idea if the driver saw a friend and was trying to say, "Hi" or just thought he was being funny, but they came up behind us and hit the siren. 

Skip lost his skin. He spooked sideways to the left at 90 mph, not a problem, but then saw another horse out of his left eye and decided he was 'trapped' and went straight up, so I got my arms forward so as not to pull him over backwards, and then I hooked him hard with my spurs to send him forward. When he came down, he started bucking and after I got myself deep in the saddle, and unhooked my spurs, he stopped. Point of this is, if I hadn't learned to ride out these kinds of thing all those years ago, I'd be a hurting puppy today. 

Once you get yourself up to speed with your seat and legs, it's going to stick with you for the rest of your life. It may be a pain right now, but once you get him past the bucking, you'll probably have learned how to handle it, so it will end up being a good lesson for you. NOT saying it's fun! 

Those firemen are not liking life today, I tore into them once the 'fun' was all over and then the BC took over where I left off.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

faye said:


> No amount of bits is going to stop a bucker (I had one that wold buck even with me hauling on the bottom rein of a pelham) and a twisted wire bit will just make him worse because you are introdcing serious pain into the equation and then run the risk of him going from bucking to bolting which is infinately more danerous.
> 
> Whilst the idea of Cheries daisy rein is not a bad one to stop the problem, the fact that it is rope and attached to the horn of a saddle (which if you ride english doesnt exist) could cause Major issues and damage. it also doesnt solve the root of the problem and you can bet that as soon as you take it off they will start again. If ou want to try this as a short term measure then you can buy a much safer daisy rein (same principle except will snap if the horse gets hung up on anything)
> 
> ...


I agree, taking their head around is the approach of choicee the _first_ time...but sometimes that split second "calm before the storm" won't give you enough time, and she may not have enough strength to get his head around before it begins. And, it sounds like it is a chronic "problem", not an isolated and "excusable" buckaroma. A twisted wire bit _only_ applies "pain" when pressure is applied. It is _very_ "specific" if it is used correctly. I have never seen a horse bolt because it was applied. I am never an advocate of pain, I train for the least amount of pressure possible w the "finished" goal of "zero". However, I will make an exception for the few _seconds _one will need to apply pressure using a twisted wire bit at start of a bucking effort. If you do not apply pressure - there is zero pain. This is why, like I said, I will let them know what is in their mouth before I actually go out...b/c the _only_ time they will feel any discomfort from it is if pressure is applied (assuming one, like I said, does not ride on the bit). Advising them of whats in their mouth removes any "surprises" when and IF it is used for bucking and it is only fair.


----------



## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

if you get bucked off, you need to get back on. not someone else. also along with the one rein stop, work him on the ground keeping your hip even with his, keep his head turned into you and push him over at his hip make sure his back leg is crossing in front of the other not behind. when he can do this on the ground the next time you ride work with him by flexing and asking him to cross over those back legs. if you have the next few times you ride keep turning him in random places. don't give him the opportunity to get his head down or straight front of him. do figure eights or other workouts with turns and bends. he needs to know that you control where those hind quarters go. the only times i have been bucked off has been away from home and by golly i ain't walking back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You say you have help down the road, use it! Lots of good advice on this thread but if they are not there on the ground helping you, I would not risk it. You got a confirmed bucker that knows he can get you off and you are asking for tips on an open forum how to fix it, not possible IMO, sorry.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

riccil0ve said:


> This is terrifying advice, it doesn't sound like much of a quick release in case of an emergency. And rope, no less, that won't break. :shock:


All it is, is a loop around the saddle.. horn.. could slip right off. WHEN needed. .I agree with the idea. would work great.___--- that is if I read this right. and thats what Cherie means.?

and Yes Jazz your explaining AWESOME.. cowboy is tooooo smart for his own good haha! no pain nothing.. just a smart alic! ( There perfect for one another) 

love you hehe:lol:


----------



## 4everiding (Jul 3, 2012)

First off, a new bit will not solve a darn thing. I see so many riders who claim to have soft hands, bounce off there horse's mouth. If you are having trouble being unseated when he bucks, you are only going to end up with an angry horse when you accidentally check him in the mouth with something like a twisted wire bit. Over bitting is a very common mistake riders and even trainers make. 

I have seen way too many horses injured with hand made contraptions because people do not know how to properly make them. If you would feel more comfortable with a contraption, buy one, don't make one.

Your goal is to stay seated, not make your horse associate you riding him with pain in any way. If he's just being a smart butt, he will stop when he realizes you won't be unseated. Think about your position, are you sitting deep on your pockets? Are you sitting evenly in the saddle, are you looking forward, are your shoulders square? Even small adjustments in your balance can make falling off inevitable if your horse bucks. You also need to relax and stay flexible in the saddle. I know if you've been thrown off, it can be difficult. But please remember, ride the horse you are on TODAY not the horse that threw you off last week. 

When you ride, do you let your horse drop his head and root? All horses drop their heads to buck, so if you can prevent the dropping of the head, you prevent the buck. If you are riding and you notice your horse start to drop his head and go beyond the vertical, give him a uni-lateral half-halt, start with a bump with your inside leg and an UPWARD (never backward) check with your inside hand. Always use leg before hand, and soon when you apply inside leg, your horse will lift his head and rebalance himself. Learning to do a one rein stop, or bridge pulley stop is helpful, but when a horse bucks, the most helpful thing you can do for both you and your horse is go FORWARD. You can use a bridge pulley rein, like a uni-lateral half-halt to get your horse on his butt and off his front end. Keep your horse infront of your legs and off his forehand, and you don't have bucking. Good luck.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

4everiding said:


> First off, a new bit will not solve a darn thing. I see so many riders who claim to have soft hands, bounce off there horse's mouth. If you are having trouble being unseated when he bucks, you are only going to end up with an angry horse when you accidentally check him in the mouth with something like a twisted wire bit. Over bitting is a very common mistake riders and even trainers make.
> 
> .


Well, if a person did not know enough to know when to use ANY given bit - they should probably only ride a well trained horse until they learn the principles and uses of multiple bits. If they cannot properly control their hands - they should probably get a trainer and, again, learn before they use _any_ bit. Like I said before, there is only one time I will use a twisted wire - which is for a horse prone to bucking. It works well. If one doesn't know enough to know when and how to use it for a horse proned to bucking, as well as know that once the bucking problem is resolved - you take that bit off, wash it and hang it up...then, again, they should not be on anything other than a well trained horse.


----------



## Strawberry4Me (Sep 13, 2012)

Also, be aware of how strong of an aid you are using. Whatever it is you are asking him to do, try to do it with as little leg (or seat or wip or crop) as possible. A lot of times horses will buck when you are using too strong of an aid. My horse bucks sometimes when I use too much leg pressure when asking for a canter. I have to remember to just ever-so-slightly move my leg back. And that's all I need usually. IF she doesn't respond, THEN I will use a stronger aid. Like harder pressure or a TAP with my wip.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

riccil0ve said:


> This is terrifying advice, it doesn't sound like much of a quick release in case of an emergency. And rope, no less, that won't break. :shock:


I would not want it to break, I would want the horse to know that if he tries messing around then it is going to be darn uncomfortable!

I bought a top show pony very cheaply, for my niece. I knew there were issues though not what they were!

He bucked - every time he went into canter he would drop his rider, very easily . Nothing mean about it, just something that he did. Working the **** out of him made no difference. He had it down to an art.

One day, he did one stride of canter on the road when a dust bin (trash can) blew over behind him, and dropped niece. I was that mad with the pony that I - far to heavy for him, got on him and charged him up the road at a canter and continued all the way to the top of a steep hill. He couldn't buck with me but he had no chance to slow down!

On return mu niece got on and he immediately dropped her when she cantered in the arena.
That was it. I did Cheries daisy reins on him and he was ridden in them all the time for about 6 weeks. That stopped his nonsense. When he shoved his head down he socked himself in the mouth - tough. He learned. Had he not then he was totally unsuitable for a child rider and would have been euthanised.


----------



## 4everiding (Jul 3, 2012)

Missy May said:


> Well, if a person did not know enough to know when to use ANY given bit - they should probably only ride a well trained horse until they learn the principles and uses of multiple bits. If they cannot properly control their hands - they should probably get a trainer and, again, learn before they use _any_ bit. Like I said before, there is only one time I will use a twisted wire - which is for a horse prone to bucking. It works well. If one doesn't know enough to know when and how to use it for a horse proned to bucking, as well as know that once the bucking problem is resolved - you take that bit off, wash it and hang it up...then, again, they should not be on anything other than a well trained horse.


 
From the OP's explanation, I would say since she is being unseated enough to the point where a stronger bit would probably only hinder and not help. If you can prevent the buck, by forcing the horse off his forehand (where he can easily buck and unseat her) and onto his hindend (where he is now engaged and cannot buck), why would anyone resort to pain first? If you and your horse a truly balanced, you will be riding the hind end of the horse, not the front end, should any bucks occur (which is highly unlikely), they would be less severe and it would be easier to simply give your horse a half-halt and push him on and through it. My old QH would buck whenever I asked him to canter (big bucks), but once I learned that if I was riding him forward and keeping him off his forehand, he never bucked again. In fact, after our bucking issue subsided, I could get him to canter from a halt just by rolling my outside hip back. All of this was done in a loose ring snaffle bridle, no contraptions, no spurs, no harsh bits, no whips, no bucks, no tail swishing, and no ears back.

I know most trainers and riders would stick my OTTB in an elevator bit over fences since he tends to get strong and a little heavy on his forehand when he gets strung out. My horse would not respond well to such treatment (nor would I ever treat him that way) and go bat crap crazy on whoever was on his back. Sure, eventually he would stop getting strong and heavy on the forehand, but he'd also draw back from the hand and would lose the quality of his gaits. My horse responds to be ridden forward and infront of my hands, not drawn back and not with someone hanging his face. I simply re-balance my horse and continue on. It may have taken me a little bit longer to get there, but I didn't sacrifice the quality of my ride and my horse did what he was supposed to without resentment torwards the bit or my hands.

Don't get me wrong, changing bits for training have their purpose, but they shouldn't be used until other methods have been utilized.


----------



## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

thenrie said:


> @Cherie:
> 
> I would love to see a video or photo of what you described. I'd like to try that.


If you google grass reins, or Daisy reins, you should find plenty of pictures. As said elsewhere on this thread, often used on ponies to stop them pulling the reins out of kids hands to have a bite to eat. On English saddles they just clip or tie to the D rings at the front, then up the neck as described and down the side of the face to the bit.


----------



## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

4everiding said:


> why would anyone resort to pain first?
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, changing bits for training have their purpose, but they shouldn't be used until other methods have been utilized.


I am guessing you did not read all of my posts. If you think I jump to a twisted wire the first sign of a crow hop - then you either want to believe that or didn't read my posts.


All that is clear from the OP's post is that the horse has gotten into the _habit_ of bucking and she cannot sit it. How well the horse can buck is unknown. Again, the question was what would "_you_" do? I ordinarily ride w a very loose rein, I cannot afford to have a horse decide to drop his head and go for it out of the blue due to "habit". A twisted wire delivers ZERO pain until and unless it is engaged w BOTH hands. Again, it is what _I _would do. If you can't stay out of your horses mouth...then, no, I absolutely would_ not_ recommend it - in fact, I wouldn't even recommend that you ride! If one can't stay out of their horses mouth - the_ absolute least_ of their poor horse's tacked related "pain" issue would come from a twisted wire bit _used properly_. If what YOU would do works for you...more power to you.


----------



## thenrie (Sep 10, 2012)

Shropshirerosie said:


> If you google grass reins, or Daisy reins, you should find plenty of pictures. As said elsewhere on this thread, often used on ponies to stop them pulling the reins out of kids hands to have a bite to eat. On English saddles they just clip or tie to the D rings at the front, then up the neck as described and down the side of the face to the bit.


Thanks!


----------



## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

How do I handle it?.......I wimp out and hire a real cowboy!


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Our Welsh had been initially trained with a 2 x 4 as told to me by my hay supplier at the time. I started the pony as tho he knew nothing and he progressed well except for the bucking at the canter. He'd drop his head between his knees and become a bronc. My older son could ride it out but got tired of it so I created a check rein from twine. The pony was always ridden in a snaffle. Using two pieces of twine I tied one to each ring then knotted them together part way up his face. Both twine ran up under the browband between his ears and down to the saddle gullet and horn. It was adjusted so he could lower his head but not to where he'd bust loose. Worked great.


----------



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Here is an old picture of the gimmick used with a web halter. It is much more effective when a rope halter is used. You run the nylon cord between the ropes above the knot that fastens the halter on. That is usually a lot higher (and more effective) than the ring on a web halter. 

It is a little hard to see, but the loop over the saddle-horn is made by folding the rope over so a double half hitch goes over the horn.


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I do something similar to that Cherie. The exception is I do it with my reins. I use split reins and tie a knot at the spot where they can't reach the ground if I put it over the horn. They learn quick to stop trying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Is there a western equivalent to a grab strap? 








I leased a horse who ended up being a very violent bucker, but I could ride it out once I put a grab strap on my saddle and trained myself to reach for it as my "oh ****" reaction.


----------



## boldstart (Oct 11, 2009)

How do I handle it?

I dont worry IF its gunna happen, I worry WHEN it happens.
And usually by then I've a) stayed on or b) come off.


----------



## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

usandpets said:


> I do something similar to that Cherie. The exception is I do it with my reins. I use split reins and tie a knot at the spot where they can't reach the ground if I put it over the horn. They learn quick to stop trying.


the reason it works is because of how the rope goes through the top rings on a halter or between the ropes of a rope halter, or (like i do) through the rings on a barcoo bridle. if it wasnt for that the horse could still get his head down, he'd just have to tuck his chin in to do it.



verona1016 said:


> Is there a western equivalent to a grab strap?


run a sturdy dog collar or piece of rope through the gap between the seat and the pommel


----------



## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

christopher said:


> the reason it works is because of how the rope goes through the top rings on a halter or between the ropes of a rope halter, or (like i do) through the rings on a barcoo bridle. if it wasnt for that the horse could still get his head down, he'd just have to tuck his chin in to do it.


Yes they could still get their head down to buck with the reins. I just do it to keep them from putting it down to eat. I don't seem to have the problem of sitting thru a buck. It's the darting that usually gets me, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

