# The Accidental Horsist



## elle1959

I thought I'd use this spot to document how my horsemanship journey is unfolding. 

A little introduction: I am 56 years old, and new to riding. 

I did not grow up in farm country. My family on my mother's side were farm people, though, and I spent a good part of every summer staying at my aunt's farm in West Virginia. There were horses and cattle on the farm, and while I never rode the horses there, the smell of a farm brings me straight back to those peaceful days of my childhood. 

I'll spare the full life story and instead fast-forward to about three months ago, when the real journey begins. 

I found myself in a highly stressful job in an academic institution with a micromanaging boss a decade younger than myself. There were three of us in the department and, in the entire time I worked there, I never saw my manager accept anyone's good work without comment. It was always in need of extensive revision. When we were lucky, she'd deem it to be "good, but not good enough." 

In a creative field, she had a very narrow vision of what could be done, and none of us were given the freedom to use the skills we'd been hired for. Skills that I'd worked decades to hone were dismissed and I was "instructed" in them as though I'd never worked in the field before, cringing as she embarrassed herself by pretending to know more than she did about things I'd specialized in. She never took the time to explore or recognize what any of us could bring to the table and instead treated all of us as though we were fresh out of college. In horse terms, we were all well broke, but she treated us like we were green. 

It was depressing, demoralizing and stressful. At 56 I had long run out of patience for that brand of stupid. I hated my life. 

My way of coping was this: Come home, down two to four glasses of wine, and go to bed early. My health began to deteriorate, but I didn't care. Life no longer felt like something I needed to care about. Everything suffered. My marriage suffered, my social life suffered, my self-esteem suffered, and I couldn't find a way out. Other jobs at the institution that looked promising and suited my skill-set all required a degree I didn't have. I'd learned on the job and it meant nothing to anyone, but I had a good benefits package and I felt trapped.

A friend of mine and I started chatting. She, too, was trapped in a stressful job, and, on a whim, she and another friend had decided to take a riding lesson. She'd found it to be a good stress-reliever and asked me if I'd like to come along. I really didn't want to. I was stuck so deeply in my rut that I didn't really see any advantage to pulling myself out. Digging out of that hole just seemed like more work I no longer had strength to do. Why bother? Life was boring and painful and unhappy and that's just how things were. I didn't want to get up early on a Saturday. Weekends were for the luxury of sleeping in and for drinking that first glass of wine a little earlier. 

Fortunately for me, she persisted. One Friday, on a bit of a whim, I decided I'd join my two friends and see what this riding thing was all about. I ran out and bought a pair of riding boots, went online to pay for my part of the group lesson, and joined them at the crack of dawn the next day. 

I didn't know it then, but that decision to join them on that day, coupled with an incident soon to follow, would change everything.


----------



## Reiningcatsanddogs

I love cliffhangers. More! More!


----------



## bsms

Welcome! I started at 50, which coincided with my retirement from the US Air Force. I find the journal section in many ways the most interesting part of HF. I don't ride horses for work. I don't compete. I don't buy horses based on "He can get me to level X!" For me, horses really are a journey, suitable for a journal. As I learn about them, I'm also learning about myself. The mechanics of riding and tack fascinate me, but ultimately what got me hooked was trying to understand another species - one that also seems to want to understand us.

I've had bosses like the one you described. In the Air Force, fortunately, I rarely had the same boss for much over a year - but some of them found ways to totally destroy people in under 12 months. 

"_In horse terms, we were all well broke, but she treated us like we were green_." - How true! One of the neat things about horses is that your simple statement draws a very clear picture for anyone who knows horses!

Maybe I've been lucky, but the few horses I've owned all seem to enjoy being part of a team. My youngest told me once, "_Most horses don't talk because most people don't listen. Being practical, horses see no reason to talk to someone who will never hear what they say._" That also describes far too many work situations. And horses, like workers, respond by shutting down inside and becoming resentful. IMHO.


----------



## elle1959

Thanks. I'm not usually one for journaling, but there have been so many twists in my life over the past few weeks that I feel I have to start getting the story out somehow. Just this morning I received a message that might greatly change the dynamic here, yet again, and in a good way. I don't want to get ahead of where I am in the journal, so I won't post that here yet, but amazing things keep happening.


----------



## tinyliny

and? and? . . . . fingers tapping impatiently . . .


----------



## elle1959

And... part 2! 

That first morning at the barn I had been told it would be good to arrive a half-hour early so that we could get a head-start with our tack. The instructor we’d signed up for, the owner, had switched us out with another instructor. When I arrived, I was assigned a lesson horse named Noah and we somehow got the horses groomed, tacked up, and into the round pen. I was shown how to mount up, how to hold the reins and sit up in the saddle, then how to tell Noah to walk, turn, and stop. When I seemed comfortable enough with that, we trotted, first on a lunge line and then in circles around the pen. 

Noah is a rough trotter, but I managed to stay with him. We went out into the larger arena and rode around while the instructor barked commands at us and we tried our best to do as we were told. It was fun; far more fun than I’d expected it to be. I felt light and happy afterward. I was sold. 

We scheduled another group lesson for the following Saturday. Again, the instructor we requested reassigned us to someone else, someone different than the instructor from the first week. I learned a little more, and had a great time. 

Coincidentally, I’d decided to eliminate the wine from my life not long before that, and I could better afford the lessons. It seemed like riding was a healthier habit than wine, so I thought I’d stick to that plan, however, the following Wednesday evening I had a pretty rough day at work so I decided to indulge. 

My husband and I were watching television. After 2 glasses of wine, I started having what felt like a stomachache. None of the usual remedies helped. It felt pretty bad, so asked my husband to run to the store to buy some Maalox. We were both dressed for bed, so he went to the bedroom to change. By the time he came back to the living room I was writhing on the floor and just screamed, “Never mind the Maalox! Get me to the hospital, please!” 

I’d never been in so much pain. All I could think of with my lizard brain was trying to crawl away from the pain in my body; my thinking brain was completely disengaged and given over to the pain. As we rode toward the ER, I unfastened my seatbelt and crawled into the back seat of our Honda CRV. Lying flat seemed to help, if just a little. I broke into a cold sweat and wasn’t sure I’d even make it to the ER without passing out. 

Then, as quickly as it came on, the pain began to subside and I stopped sweating. As we approached the entrance to the ER, I managed to sit up, get out of the car, and walk on my own, still in my pajamas, of course, to the registration desk while my husband parked the car. 

Once registered, they drew blood and then sent me back to the waiting room where I was soon called up to the counter again to do some paperwork. As I was sitting there with the paperwork guy, the “stomachache” began again. Three minutes later I was back on the floor, and soon afterward someone was lifting me into a wheelchair. I was taken to a room in the ER where, mercifully, the pain began to subside again. 

Eventually a doctor came in and, in the brusque fashion of many overworked ER doctors, asked me how much I drank.

Now, I knew I drank too much, and I knew that drinking could cause abdominal issues, but I hadn’t put the two together until he asked the question. I’d had two dogs who’d had pancreatitis and, because I love my animals, I’d read everything I could find about it, and therefore knew that 1) it was excruciatingly painful and, 2) in people, it was often caused by alcohol. 

I looked at the doctor and said, “Oh. My blood work must be in. It’s my pancreas, isn’t it?” 

He told me my lipase levels were very high and he wanted an abdominal CT scan. After all that was done, he came back in and said that it was indeed acute pancreatitis but nothing horrible was showing on the scan. Normally, they admit acute pancreatitis patients and keep them for several days on IV fluids and painkillers, but my case was borderline, he was on the fence as to what to do, and he wanted to know if I thought I could manage at home. Maybe there were just no open beds. 

I told him I’d try, so they gave me a prescription for some serious narcotics, told me that if I drank again I could very well die, and sent me home with a promise not to drink and to come back if I experienced severe pain again. 

I did go back two days later with severe--though not as severe--pain. I had taken the painkillers, though, and figured it must be ten times as bad as it felt. More tests showed that I was actually getting better, so they sent me home again with some stronger narcotics, and I remained in bed for a week, eating sparsely and mostly subsisting on zero-fat Greek yogurt and percocet. I lost five pounds. 

The worst part was that I had to cancel a riding lesson that Saturday.


----------



## Reiningcatsanddogs

Sounds like riding came along in the nick of time for making some positive changes in your life!


----------



## elle1959

It truly did! Forgive my multiple posts but I'm trying to get the journal caught up to the present so that I can start updating it as things happen


----------



## elle1959

I am enjoying reading through some of the other journals here as they come up. No way I could go back and read through everything but I wish I had the time to do it. I makes me feel more connected to everyone's personality and situation. 

Anyway, here's part 3 and I'll try to keep it shorter than part 2 was. 

----------

So after I was home in bed for three days, my husband finally got around to looking up pancreatitis on the internet, and said to me, "Wow. I didn't realize that you could have died." I started thinking about that. It was true. And I realized right then and there that life is too short to spend in a crummy job that you hate, drinking wine every night because you hate your life. And, I'd found something to do that I loved to do. Joy was creeping back into my life again because of horses and riding, and it felt like I was at a point at which I had to decide if I was going to let joy all the way in or fade back into the darkness. 

When I went back to work a week later, I looked up what I needed to do to take early retirement. I hadn't earned much, but it would be enough to help stem the tide while I worked to strike out on my own. I talked it over with my husband, who surprised me by telling me that, if I were that miserable, I should go ahead. 

I started formulating a business plan and I kept taking the lessons with my friends and finding great joy in it, and I registered a corporation with the state. I re-evaluated everything, realizing that this is the last part of my life when I'll still be able to do the things I want to do. Soon, I'll be too old. It was time to take action, so I gave notice and, just a week ago, I was able to leave that job and never look back. 

I've been taking private lessons, and recently started looking for a horse to lease. It seems premature, but I really want and need more saddle time. 

Looking for a lease has been frustating; I've started a thread here about it and gotten some great advice. It might just not be a problem anymore though, because an extraordinary thing happened today. 

This morning I received a notice from my cousin, the daughter of the aunt with the farm. She has a 9-year-old Tennessee Walking Horse gelding that I can have if I want him. She's older than me, and downsizing her farm, and doesn't have the time to give him what he needs. All I have to do is go meet him, see if we "click" and, if we do, arrange for transport to CA along with board and additional training when he gets here. 

So, just like that, it looks like I might have a horse!


----------



## elle1959

Today I got a phone call from my cousin with the horse. I missed her call, so she left a message. It sounded like she was very concerned that I might not be ready for this horse, after all. 

After hearing this message, I texted her (she had said she wasn't available for a call) and told her I thought it sounded like he was probably too green for me. It broke my heart to say it, but I really feel I need to be careful about what I'm getting into. 

Later today I got another call from her, and we had an actual conversation. It turns out that she had no idea I was planning to tune him up with a trainer here, and was concerned that I was going to bring him here, pull him out of the trailer and try to put a saddle on him and ride. Gotta love older cousins, because you are forever a little kid in their minds  

When I explained what I was expecting to do with him once he gets here, she said that's exactly what he'll need. I told her I didn't have unlimited funds for a long rehabilitation but was hoping what he'd need would be no more than three months or so of work under a good, gentle trainer, working three days a week. She had also been concerned about the kind of training he'd get, and after I described it all to her, she thought it was a perfect plan. So we're back on for next week. 

It's been a bit of a rollercoaster, and my husband doesn't really understand it. He grew up with horses and had his own horse, but he was never properly taught and had some very bad experiences. Riding is not his thing, so he doesn't really understand what I get from it. I feel sad for him, because he's been soured on something that could have been wonderful, through no fault of his own. 

I promise that, if I do get my cousin's horse-- this great, beautiful creature who has known nothing but kindness in one home for his entire life-- I will do everything I can to keep him from being soured in any way. I feel like she's willing to entrust me with a precious gem, and I wonder if I'm worthy. I pray that I am.


----------



## elle1959

Made my travel arrangements today. I leave for Charleston, WV, early Friday morning and arrive a little after 4:00pm. Then it's an hour and a half to the farm. 

She wants me to have time to meet and connect with Redman just to make sure we click and that, assuming we do, he will have someone he has met waiting for him on the other side of his journey west. So I'm planning to stay for four days and spend some time with him, grooming him and caring for him so that we can experience each other before the move. 

It's that journey I am most concerned about right now. He's only known one home and has been a pasture pet for the past few years. This will all be a big shock to him and it's bound to be unsettling for him to leave his home and his pasture buddy and find himself in a foreign place with different horses and new people caring for him.

Coast-to-coast is a long trip, and I'm worried about transport. Although I'm asking around for recommendations, I'm having trouble coming up with them. 

There's a thread here: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-trailers/trailering-services-your-experiences-618745/

I tried to revive it but I don't know if anyone noticed. I did contact one of the carriers recommended there, Brook Ledge, so we'll see if they have anything from WV to CA around the first of next month. Since I don't know what others paid, I've been going on the assumption that the cost to haul would be around $1.00 per mile, which will put me around the upper limit of my horse buying budget. I hope it's not much more than that, but I'll do what I need to do. 

The only thing to worry about is making sure he gets here as healthy and trauma-free as possible. Did you notice I'm already assuming he'll be mine? Feeling pretty positive about the whole thing, though my husband thinks I'm crazy. I am, actually, but in a good way. I have a lot of things moving forward at the same time and I'm not willing to hesitate on any one of them. Life is short and I don't intend to waste another minute dreaming, when I could be doing. He can't get here soon enough for me.


----------



## egrogan

Elle, just joining in here to follow your experience. Sounds exciting all around. 

My husband and I have both spent a lot of time in academic institutions, and it is eternally disappointing to me that places that should be exciting hotbeds of openness and learning are so often deadening bureaucracies. I currently have a research position in a nonprofit organization, and am fortunate to have the smartest, most motivating colleagues I've ever had, but since so many of my friends and family are academics I can completely picture exactly the situation you were in.

Not sure what type of business you're starting, but I would encourage you to consider connecting with your state small business development center (SBDC). Here's the CA link: About the California SBDC Network | California Small Business Development Center Network Few people seem to know about them, but they offer free assistance to start-up entrepreneurs and can really help you get things off the ground successfully.


----------



## elle1959

egrogan said:


> Elle, just joining in here to follow your experience. Sounds exciting all around.
> 
> My husband and I have both spent a lot of time in academic institutions, and it is eternally disappointing to me that places that should be exciting hotbeds of openness and learning are so often deadening bureaucracies. I currently have a research position in a nonprofit organization, and am fortunate to have the smartest, most motivating colleagues I've ever had, but since so many of my friends and family are academics I can completely picture exactly the situation you were in.
> 
> Not sure what type of business you're starting, but I would encourage you to consider connecting with your state small business development center (SBDC). Here's the CA link: About the California SBDC Network | California Small Business Development Center Network Few people seem to know about them, but they offer free assistance to start-up entrepreneurs and can really help you get things off the ground successfully.


Thank you! I'll check them out. It's truly amazing the problems we encounter in academics. My area of expertise is web development but my skills there were never put to use. I was basically the person who put text and pictures on the crappy website that they wouldn't let me improve. I did what I could, but I could never be proud of that work. Trying to get approval to do anything outside of the box was just a nightmare. 

Glad you have found a research home. My first position at the university was with a research department and I found the atmosphere there to be much more to my liking. I only moved out of there, after 7 years, because I was feeling underutilized and in a rut, with no way to advance. In retrospect I probably should have stayed there, but I guess it's all okay because what happened next has forced me to strike out on my own. 

I'll check out the SBDC network. Right now I'm concentrating on building a portfolio, which means I'm updating people's outdated websites for FREE! Once I have that done, I can add them to my own site and start promoting myself more heavily. 

As for the horsey journal stuff: 

------

I arranged transport for Redman yesterday. It's going to cost about $1000 less than I was anticipating, and the transport company seems very good, everything I'd hoped to find, with great reviews. Assuming all goes well and he doesn't kick me in the head when I meet him, they'll pick him up on the 11th and deliver him to my trainer on the 16th. 

As I said in the "over 50" thread a few minutes ago, I'm not thrilled about getting started with him during the cold and rainy (I hope) season here, but he should be well ready once the nicer weather arrives. I have a lesson today with his trainer and I'm going to ask her to shift our focus to groundwork, so that I have a clue what I'm doing when he does get here. She'll work him three days a week, and I'll come out as often as I can to work with him as well. Starting to get very excited about him coming here.


----------



## egrogan

elle1959 said:


> Right now I'm concentrating on building a portfolio, which means I'm updating people's outdated websites for FREE! Once I have that done, I can add them to my own site and start promoting myself more heavily.
> 
> As for the horsey journal stuff:
> 
> ------
> 
> I arranged transport for Redman yesterday. It's going to cost about $1000 less than I was anticipating, and the transport company seems very good, everything I'd hoped to find, with great reviews. Assuming all goes well and he doesn't kick me in the head when I meet him, they'll pick him up on the 11th and deliver him to my trainer on the 16th.


That sounds really smart about building the "pro bono" websites. I'd encourage you to look into therapeutic riding centers near you who might benefit from your services (you can search through this organization)- it's something I know a lot of nonprofits need but can't afford. I'm on the board of a center here in NH, and we just spend more money than I'd care to share having a really awful new site built- felt like money down the drain. Wish we had connected a few months ago 

Can't wait to learn more about Redman as you get to know him!


----------



## elle1959

Thank you again! I'll do that. I've noticed that a lot of the horsey sites look like they haven't been updated since sometime in the early 2000s, so I plan to approach at least one of those to see if they're willing to accept a free update and a therapeutic riding center might be perfect. For web work it can be anywhere, doesn't have to be local. 

The one I just finished was last updated in 2006. I specialize in making sure that the sites are responsive; what that means is that no matter what device you are using to access the site, the site looks good. I also wish we had connected earlier!


----------



## bsms

I've only shipped one horse. Trooper came from a ranch a friend has about 700 miles from here. He was picked up, brought down and dropped off for less than what it would have cost me to drive a trailer there and back. The trailer was a 6 horse trailer with 3 horses in it. It was much nicer than my trailer! Trooper arrived at midnight, unloaded fine, went into a separate corral and mixed in with the others about 2 days later. It didn't seem to bother him at all.

Some horses stress. Mia arrived here having been corral mates with another mare we owned (Lilly) for two years previous. Mia was sold to someone else, it didn't work out, and then we got her. She arrived ready to kill any horse who got close to her. Lilly was so anxious to see her pal again - recognized her immediately - and Mia went after her with blood on her mind. I broke it up with a whip. 

It took several weeks for her to calm enough to join Lilly in a corral again. For 4 months, she'd break into a sweat - lather levels of sweat - just standing in the corral. She had colic monthly for 8 months...then a couple times over the next year...then never again.

Mia and I learning to ride while my daughter learned to ride on green-broke Lilly. I was still in my 'no bit' phase: 








​ 
FWIW, when we sold Lilly a few years later, Mia stood at the gate, looking to where Lilly left, nickering softly for several days. Then she gave up and largely forgot about her. Good luck!


----------



## elle1959

Sweet! I had a lesson in groundwork with Redman's future trainer today. She has a WordPress website but no one has ever taught her how to update it. I know WordPress very well, so next week we're trading a lesson for a lesson  Her hourly rate and mine are exactly the same, so it works out brilliantly!

I had a good lesson with her today, but man, was it hot out there! At the end of the lesson I had to go get some water and sit in my car with the AC on while we talked about her website and Redman coming there and various other things. She's such a good trainer and I'm really excited about having Redman go to her. She's excited, too. 

Tomorrow I have a riding lesson with my other instructor. Looking forward to time in the saddle!

BSMS, that's what I'm worried most about. I really hope Redman survives the trip without too much trauma. I understand that it's better for them not to be crosstied when they travel like this, and this particular trailer allows room for them to travel without being tied, so I'm hoping that will help. We'll see how he is when he gets here.


----------



## waresbear

All very exciting and I love the part about being a $1000 less than what you thought, bonus!


----------



## elle1959

waresbear said:


> All very exciting and I love the part about being a $1000 less than what you thought, bonus!


Yeah, more money I can spend on tack


----------



## bsms

^^ It is like the farmer who won a million in the lottery. When asked what he was going to do with it, he replied, "_Reckon I'll farm until it's all used up_!"


----------



## elle1959

Looking around at information and reviews of various gaited saddles. Ran across this website: Dixieland Gaited Saddles, Gaited Trail Saddles, western gaited saddle

The Light Rider Butterfly is supposed to be a good choice, lightweight and comfortable. Looking at their website made me wonder if they'd trade a website update for a saddle. Their site needs one, badly. 

I think I'll just redo a couple of their pages, stick them on my server, send them an email and ask if they're interested. I'll have a month to finish it before he gets here, anyway. They have a lot of pages so they'll be getting more than their money's worth if they say yes.


----------



## elle1959

I had a very good lesson with my riding instructor today. This is a different gal from the one who will be tuning up Redman. I started with her first, and I like working with her and she likes working with adults, so we seem to have a good thing going. Her lessons are not expensive so I don't see any reason to stop, especially since my ultimate goal is to move Redman to the barn where she teaches, which is much closer to me.

We worked on lateral movement today, and worked again on the sidepass, which was much improved from our last lesson. Maybe this old brain of mine really can retain some of what I try to squeeze in there. I have a hard time shutting down the forward "window" in the sidepass and I also have a hard time remembering to let go of my aids upon response. We worked on what I'd like to call 'pumping" the aids in time with his movement today on the sidepass. pressure-step-release, pressure-step-release, unless he continues the step on his own. There's a rhythm to all of this that's appealing to me as a musician. 

I noticed this same rhythmic function with the trainer yesterday as we did groundwork with one of her horses, only this was on the lunge line. Move him, keep him in, pump when he moves away, release when he willingly stays on the circle. 

I'm finding the whole experience of learning to speak horse very compelling. It's so in the moment it's rather zen-like, which may be part of what I find so enjoyable about it. There's no time to ruminate about anything else. You're just connected to that horse, the whole time.


----------



## tinyliny

elle1959 said:


> Looking around at information and reviews of various gaited saddles. Ran across this website: Dixieland Gaited Saddles, Gaited Trail Saddles, western gaited saddle
> 
> The Light Rider Butterfly is supposed to be a good choice, lightweight and comfortable. Looking at their website made me wonder if they'd trade a website update for a saddle. Their site needs one, badly.
> 
> I think I'll just redo a couple of their pages, stick them on my server, send them an email and ask if they're interested. I'll have a month to finish it before he gets here, anyway. They have a lot of pages so they'll be getting more than their money's worth if they say yes.


;

are you a web designer? what do you charge to redo a cluttered mess like that? or, create a webpage for a simple artist.


----------



## tinyliny

elle1959 said:


> I had a very good lesson with my riding instructor today. This is a different gal from the one who will be tuning up Redman. I started with her first, and I like working with her and she likes working with adults, so we seem to have a good thing going. Her lessons are not expensive so I don't see any reason to stop, especially since my ultimate goal is to move Redman to the barn where she teaches, which is much closer to me.
> 
> We worked on lateral movement today, and worked again on the sidepass, which was much improved from our last lesson. Maybe this old brain of mine really can retain some of what I try to squeeze in there. I have a hard time shutting down the forward "window" in the sidepass and I also have a hard time remembering to let go of my aids upon response. We worked on what I'd like to call 'pumping" the aids in time with his movement today on the sidepass. pressure-step-release, pressure-step-release, unless he continues the step on his own. There's a rhythm to all of this that's appealing to me as a musician.
> 
> I noticed this same rhythmic function with the trainer yesterday as we did groundwork with one of her horses, only this was on the lunge line. Move him, keep him in, pump when he moves away, release when he willingly stays on the circle.
> 
> I'm finding the whole experience of learning to speak horse very compelling. It's so in the moment it's rather zen-like, which may be part of what I find so enjoyable about it. There's no time to ruminate about anything else. You're just connected to that horse, the whole time.



this is so nicely put. I do think there's a certain musicality to horse work, but I liken it more to dancing with someone becaie the partner can have it's own input that will change things, so, the dont tend to follow the mathematical perfection of music.

but it is that sense of Mirroredness, reflection, push and draw, exhale/inhale that is bewitching.


----------



## elle1959

tinyliny said:


> ;
> 
> are you a web designer? what do you charge to redo a cluttered mess like that? or, create a webpage for a simple artist.


Yep, I am. As far as that cluttered mess, it's probably more time than the saddle is worth, with all the images they have on there. That site really needs to be completely restructured to bring it more into line with the way people look at products today. 

A simple site for an artist would depend upon the number of pages, the number of images that I'd need to put up, and so forth. A small, brochure-style site would not be very expensive. 

I did a site for an artist friend and traded him the work for two of his artworks, which are now hanging in my living room. PM me offline and give me more details about what you're looking for.


----------



## elle1959

Tomorrow is the big day. I fly out at 6:35am and arrive in Charleston WV at 4:19. Drive the hour and a half to the exit to the farm, and my cousin will meet me there. If all goes well, I'll be getting to the farm around sundown. Might be able to get a look at Redman before it gets dark. 

My cousin tells me that fall foliage is at peak right now. I'm really excited to see an Appalachian fall. It's been far too long. I have no idea what state of readiness Redman will be in. I know my cousin is working with him this week, so we'll see when I get there whether or not she thinks he's ready for me to ride. I hope he is, but I'll be okay with it if all I get to do is groom him. He has a good trainer waiting for him in California. 

It's a long trip so I'll pack along my iPad so that I can read a book. I think I need to charge it up overnight. Good thing I thought of that. Everything else is packed; it will be chilly there, so I am bringing a couple of sweaters. Should be good to go. I'm very excited. 

No idea what the internet access will be like out there, so I may not be checking in until after I get home. If that's the case, I'll see you all on Wednesday.


----------



## elle1959

It's been an interesting couple of weeks. I didn't bring my cousin's horse back to California, for several reasons. Probably the most critical reason is that I didn't feel as though she would truly let go of him and allow him to be mine. It's funny with family that way. She has very strong opinions about his training and his care and I would constantly be under scrutiny. I couldn't enjoy having a horse under those circumstances. 

So, I had a nice visit with her and we mutually agreed that he isn't the horse for me. It felt a bit discouraging at first, but after coming home I re-engaged with a lovely, gaited mare that my trainer put me on. What a gorgeous, fast, and forward horse she is! Too much horse for me at this stage, but such a beauty and a joy to ride. Gaits as smooth as butter, and FAST! I had more fun on this horse than I've ever had riding. 

Getting on this mare helped me to realize that what so many people have been telling me that I need is not at all what I should be looking for. I need a sane and sound horse, but I will not be happy with a dull, schoolmaster type. I'm going to need a horse that is a bit more responsive and forward in order to reach my own potential as a rider and achieve my personal goals. 

I've only had three lessons with this trainer so far, but I've had far more time in the saddle than she has seen. We mostly do groundwork, and last week was only the second time she's seen me ride. After watching me on this quick mare she was impressed and told me that she thought I was at the advanced beginner to intermediate skill-level. She agreed that this mare is a bit too much for me, but thought she could find a horse that was somewhere in-between this mare and the schoolmaster she'd had me on for my first lesson in terms of spunk and willingness. 

So, that's where we are. I'm still looking at available horses, and I'm pretty set now on getting a gaited horse. At my age I really do appreciate the smoother ride. I'm going to let the trainer help me decide which horse is best for me with the understanding that I don't want a horse I'll outgrow in three years. I'm big on the forever home philosophy, anyway, and it would break my heart to acquire a horse who wouldn't suit me in a few years-- and I can't afford to keep two! 

I'm now looking much more casually at ads but not really getting attached to the idea of any specific horse. I did find a lovely MFT gelding on dreamhorse.com who is affordable and nearby. He sounds good, temperament is a 6 on the 1-10 scale they use which seems about right for me, so I contacted the seller and sent his information to my trainer. I'm going to let her tell me if she thinks he's worth pursuing. 

So that's the horse acquisition update. In other news, I had a lovely trail ride yesterday with my two friends, and my husband also came along for the ride, which was shocking since he has had such bad experiences with horses and had been afraid to ride again. He had a good ride, for which I'm thankful. 

I enjoyed the ride and enjoyed spending time with my friends. Also experienced my first jump, when the horse I was on decided he'd rather not step into a muddy ravine. It surprised me, but I stayed on. 

There were a few challenging moments with terrain and I was able to successfully dissuade my horse from charging quickly through some small descents, which he did a few times before I realized I could control him. This was good experience, as I was able to successfully apply some of the things I've learned from my trainers in an actual trail riding scenario. 

In all, it's been a decent week for riding. I've been slacking on my other responsibilities lately, though, and this week I need to pick up the pace and get back to work. It's hard to discipline myself to work when there's so much fun to be had.


----------



## bsms

Just want to point out that willing to move forward and sane are not contradictions. Trooper is our horse for new riders. He's a good caretaker horse. If a balanced rider asks him to haul butt, he will. He is content to loaf, or content to walk fast, or to trot, or to canter. Even gallop if one can find a place safe for a horse to gallop around here - and they are few and short. We have to be careful because he will, if asked, canter on rocks and hurt his feet.

Lilly was broken to ride after we bought her, and a 6 year old Arabian mare - but my youngest daughter took many of her first riding lessons on green broke Lilly. She was another horse who could move, but who had no mean in her. Treat her with respect and she wasn't going to fight her rider. Unfortunately, Lilly and Trooper developed a deep hate for each other, and the rest of the family voted to keep Trooper. I preferred Lilly...

My daughter and I trying to learn to ride on Lilly and Mia some years ago. I really wish we still had Lilly...and sometimes I really miss Mia too:








​ 
Cowboy is 13 hands of attitude. He's been a lesson horse and he hates arena riding. Get him on a trail with another horse, and he is sane and willing. Because of his height, he may need to canter to keep up with the other horses trotting. Not a problem. If he is in the lead, he's trot or canter if asked. He slows if he doesn't trust the footing - and that is a GOOD thing in a horse! Trooper and Cowboy both kept their minds when we were being shot at a few weeks ago (by idiots who had no business owning guns). When asked, both cantered forward and kept listening to their riders - and if truth be told, we riders were feeling pretty tense!

A horse can be experienced, sane AND forward, eager and confident. A lot of lesson horses get soured by constantly having riders who have poor balance and who don't pay attention to them - hence my youngest daughter's comment that most horses don't talk because most people don't listen. But even there: If you own the horse and ride it regularly as its sole rider, and you DO listen, some of them will come out of their shells and really respond.

For a horse owner, over a year or more, I think the rider is largely responsible for the horse's attitude. Some horses ARE lazy, and some ARE quite timid. But it seems to me a lot of horses are just poorly ridden by someone who doesn't know the difference between a horse and an ATV. Either that, or I've been darn lucky with the horses I've bought, including getting Bandit without ever seeing him before he arrived...


----------



## knightrider

I am excited by your horse search. I think you can find the perfect one for you. My daughter's first pony, whom we nicknamed The World's Greatest Pony is exactly what you are describing. He loves to go, walks very fast--in fact he out walks every horse we've ever ridden with--and has plenty of energy. Yet he is extremely level headed and takes care of his young riders. I cannot allow timid riders to ride him. He intimidates them with his energy. Luckily my daughter, who is somewhat of a timid rider, grew up riding him, so she feels totally confident on him. And so do all of her riding friends. I'm sure there's a nice horse like that in CA for you.


----------



## elle1959

I'm going to go out and take a look at this horse tomorrow. If I like him, I'm going to have my trainer go out and look at him. If she likes him, then we'll get a vet check and make an offer if he's sound. Not holding my breath this time


----------



## elle1959

Went out the day before yesterday to take a look at "Joe." He's a grade, gaited horse who is supposed to be a mixture of MFT and Mountain Pleasure. He does not fox trot. 

Joe is being sold because he was the husband-horse for the owner and her husband passed away from cancer. He's 13 years old and is about 15.1hh. 

Here is a movie of Joe being ridden by the consignment seller.

https://youtu.be/WrY1WEKiEgE

Joe is an interesting character. The seller said that she's had her 12 year old daughter riding him consistently without incident but that he has a "bad reputation" because the owner's husband "fell off" of him a few times. She was very blunt about not really liking him much because he wasn't trained by her and she said that he seems "robotic" and a bit unwilling or tense when first caught. 

I don't have a very educated eye but I didn't see any real issues with him when the seller rode him. I rode him next, had no real problems with him that weren't likely due to my own inexperience. In fact, I found him easy to move out and easy to connect with, with a smooth-as-butter gait that was comfortable to ride. I don't know how "robotic" he was, but he did seem very well broke and pretty push-button, without being lazy or sullen. I was very comfortable on him. My only real apprehension came from her initial description of him. 

I took lots of video of him to take back to my trainer, who thought the seller was probably being overly cautious because she'd heard rumors and didn't want him coming back with an accusation of "you never told me that." She did say that four or five people had been out to see him who didn't seem like they'd be good homes for him and that I was the first person to even mention a trainer or lessons, and that was a good thing. 

My trainer and I went over the video yesterday and she thought he looked very promising for me, so I made an offer that was $1000 less than the asking price, pending vet check results and an evaluation by my trainer. My offer was accepted, so the trainer and I will be going next Tuesday to evaluate him and, if all works out, he'll have a home with me soon. I'll pay my trainer for a month of tuneup so that we really understand his training and his mind well enough to determine his needs and move forward with him from there. 

I don't like the name "Joe" for him, so if we get him I'll change it to something else. A guy with a bad rep deserves a fresh start. Wish me luck. 

Oh, he's pretty, too. I wasn't looking for a flashy kid, so that will just be bonus if it works out.


----------



## knightrider

Wow! I LIKE him. Of course, I don't have a good eye for conformation, and I am blinded by color. I like the way he moves and the calm way he handles himself. I also don't like the name Joe. I'm sure you can come up with something regal and elegant for such a lovely horse.

We had a horse named Ol' Mange living next door to us for a couple of years. He was just stunning, and when he'd gait across the pasture, he was beautiful to watch. I was longing to ride him. Finally my next door neighbor gave him to my neighbor behind me and I got to ride him quite a lot. A friend of mine bought him and she changed his name to Mojo--which fit him perfectly because he had PLENTY of mojo. But his nickname? Joe. phooey.


----------



## tinyliny

he seems like a very calm and supple horse. he does, however, pace. you need to ride him and see how that pace feels to you. it's hard to train a horse out of pacing. some folks don't mind the way you will rock around in the saddle. I have a friend whose TWH paces. he does not care, and she has taken him on all kinds of mountain trails. she is the steadiest, most reliable and kindest horse I've ever met.


----------



## elle1959

Thanks; I rode him for about an hour and didn't ever feel like I was being rocked. I did notice some pacing-type strides in some of the videos but never felt uncomfortable on him, so I don't know. I'm hoping my trainer will be able to more deliberately run him through his various gaits so we can get a better feel.


----------



## knightrider

If the pace is comfortable, I wouldn't consider it a deal breaker. I noticed also that he was pacing and you can either (1) do things to get him out of it, or (2) if he is comfortable, don't worry about it.

When I was a kid, I had a Chilean pacing mare who just glided along and was a joy to ride. In those days, I was very proud of my pacing mare. She was taught to pace as a filly, and was a bit of a status symbol where I lived. A pace can be quite comfortable (or not). If everything else is right, I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## tinyliny

knightrider said:


> Wow! I LIKE him. Of course, I don't have a good eye for conformation, and I am blinded by color. I like the way he moves and the calm way he handles himself. I also don't like the name Joe. I'm sure you can come up with something regal and elegant for such a lovely horse.
> 
> We had a horse named *Ol' Mange* living next door to us for a couple of years. He was just stunning, and when he'd gait across the pasture, he was beautiful to watch. I was longing to ride him. Finally my next door neighbor gave him to my neighbor behind me and I got to ride him quite a lot. A friend of mine bought him and she changed his name to Mojo--which fit him perfectly because he had PLENTY of mojo. But his nickname? Joe. phooey.



"OL' Mange?" what a horrible name!


----------



## elle1959

Yes, agree that Ol' Mange is a pretty awful name! 

I'm going to approach this cautiously with this horse. As much as I would like to think I can give a horse a forever home, I know that with riding it's likely I'll outgrow my first horse within a few years. If this horse doesn't have any reliable, proper fast gaits, no matter how smooth his pace is, it's going to make it more difficult to sell him when I'm ready. Am I overthinking again?


----------



## knightrider

Yes, I think you are overthinking again. Just because you are a beginning rider doesn't mean you will outgrow your horse. I looked at his video again, and he looks like a horse that is very fun to ride . . . and take you for wonderful adventures for the rest of his life. The reason why people "outgrow" their horses is when they are competing and the horse can no longer go to the higher levels where the person wants to compete. . . . or else the horse is so dead and ploddy that the rider wants something more exciting. Joe already looks like he will be exciting to ride, and as he comes to trust you and you come to love him, there will always be joy.

But that also depends on you and your personality. Some people just want the thrill of a new horse. Me, I like the thrill of knowing your horse so intimately after 20 years that you can read their thoughts and they can read yours. It's a different kind of thrill, but it's powerful too. Joe doesn't seem like a ploddy dead head at all. I don't see you getting bored with him. The main thing is how you feel when you are riding him. Do you feel like he was meant to be yours? Or just "eh, I don't know." If there is a powerful connection, then it is likely you will never grow out of him. If not, then I'd keep looking.


----------



## whisperbaby22

Better to overthink it than underthink it. And at our age, it is more important that the horse suit you for now. If you did get this horse and decide to sell in a few years, aim for getting him so good on the trail that people will be offering to buy him.


----------



## elle1959

I've decided to look into some additional options, in case this horse does not work out. Did an new search on geldings within 25 miles of my trainer's facility and came up with five good prospects. This time I didn't limit them to gaited horse, and in fact none of these prospects are gaited, but all are said to be well-trained. Some are older. We'll see what happens on Tuesday but, unless my trainer really LOVES this horse I'm more inclined to pass on him now. I think maybe I can do better for the money I'm willing to spend.


----------



## enh817

Sorry for the flood of 'likes' but I just love everything about this thread!!

You are going about everything in a careful, thought-out fashion and I'm positive it will pay off enormously for you, when you find the right horse. 

I'm in the central valley, we have a number of good horses for sale (all registered). Not sure if any of them are what you're looking for, but figured I'd tell you a little about them 

We have a big, pretty, gentle western pleasure bred AQHA chestnut gelding, I'd have to double check his age, I want to say 6 or 7, but I'm thinking you want something with a bit more spunk. He is smooth, but he rides like a western pleasure horse. Though we've gotten him out of the overly slow gaits, so he does cover more ground than a WP show horse. Rides out on trail. I think we've roped off him too.

We have a smaller blue roan, Hancock bred AQHA gelding, who might be a little too much horse. I'd also have to check his papers for age, but I think he's somewhere between 6-9. He's a sweetheart and wants to be good, but came from a rough situation and still carries some baggage from that. Though he is coming around nicely and was just used on a pack trip in the mountains last week and was PERFECT. Didn't even bat an eye at having the pack put on him the first time. We've roped on him, worked cows, etc. He's a great guy, but definitely not a deadhead, and needs someone with patience and a soft hand. 

We've got a decent sized grey paint mare, 12, who also carries some baggage with her from previous owners.... she's great and willing, so long as she is worked regularly and is doing different jobs. If she gets fresh, she can get to jumping around a bit and has bucked (this is definitely something she learned at her last home and I believe we have gotten rid of the behavior, but I still disclose it, because it was there). She's been one of the best trail mounts I've been on in a long time though and will go up/over/down/under/through anything I point her at. She has been roped on, drags tires, goes over jumps, and has shown some talent for working a cow. She is a sweetheart and has a great personality. 

We have another paint mare, bay and white, who is smaller. Not positive on her age (I really need to look over all the sale horse papers lol), but I want to say 12 or 14. Very gentle, and easy going, great on trails. We're just working on her lope, because she thinks she needs to go around super quick. I'm sure it's just a result of her having her face 'hung on' constantly in a previous life, and never really learning how to carry herself, so she feels off balance. She's coming along nicely though and I have no doubt we will have her loping as quietly she jogs before too long. Great on trail, very easy going. Can ride her bareback, rope off her, nothing seems to bother her. 

We have a really gentle 3 year old bay AQHA mare that I LOVE riding, who might be available for sale soon. She cows, she reins, she rides out on trails great. She's got a dream demeanor, super gentle and willing. But she is not smooth. She's got very animated gaits. Her father, the most gentle stud I've ever met, might also be available for sale soon, but he will not be cheap. He's a seasoned show horse and has multiple year-end open bridle championships in the California Reined Cowhorse. 

We've got a few others, but I don't think they'd be remotely right for you. 

If you want to private message me more specific info on what you're looking for, price range, age, ultimate goals, etc. I can keep my ears open for anything that might fit. We have nice horses coming and going all the time


----------



## elle1959

enh817 said:


> Sorry for the flood of 'likes' but I just love everything about this thread!!
> 
> You are going about everything in a careful, thought-out fashion and I'm positive it will pay off enormously for you, when you find the right horse.
> 
> I'm in the central valley, we have a number of good horses for sale (all registered). Not sure if any of them are what you're looking for, but figured I'd tell you a little about them


Wow, thank you! I'll send you a message to see if I can get more info on a few of them. I'd feel so much more secure buying from someone who I know, at least in a virtual sense. One or two of these horses sound like they could be perfect for me but, of course, I need to know more.


----------



## elle1959

Today is another rainy, overcast day, unusual for California right now. I'm grateful for the rain. I had a riding lesson scheduled with my main riding instructor so we worked in the covered arena. It's small, so she wanted to concentrate on my equitation and helping me get a better seat. 

Most of the work we did was on the lunge line. I did not hold the reins, but used my seat and legs to balance and stay on. We worked on keeping my core loose and my legs in good alignment during the trot, then trotting stops, and then she decided we should canter. 

Well, I've only cantered a few times, and both times I was holding onto the horn for dear life. Here she wanted me to canter with my hands in the air. Because I'm insane, I said, sure, no problem. We did it, and I stayed with him really well. She said, "stick your arms out to the sides like you're flying." I said, "I AM flying!" That's how it felt. It actually felt wonderful to have this gorgeous, powerful, creature running along at full speed with me astride. Balance at the canter actually felt easier than balance at the trot. 

It was a good rainy day lesson and it flew by way too quickly. 

I feel like I am learning a lot in a short time with this instructor. She's relatively inexperienced as a teacher, so her lessons are not expensive, but she really does put a lot of effort into helping me learn, and she clearly knows what she's doing with horses. So lucky to have found her. When and if I ever get a horse of my own, I'd like to eventually move it closer to me and have her continue to teach me using my own horse. The barn where she teaches is much closer than the one where my groundwork trainer is, and though that's initially where my horse will land, he won't stay there forever.


----------



## egrogan

Lunge lessons are so wonderful at this stage in your riding- it's so nice just to concentrate on _you _and not necessarily worry about the horse. If you're not already, you might also think about recording video of your lessons, it will give you a real sense of accomplishment to see your progress and be able to get a clear picture of how your body looks when your instructor is giving you feedback.


----------



## elle1959

egrogan said:


> Lunge lessons are so wonderful at this stage in your riding- it's so nice just to concentrate on _you _and not necessarily worry about the horse. If you're not already, you might also think about recording video of your lessons, it will give you a real sense of accomplishment to see your progress and be able to get a clear picture of how your body looks when your instructor is giving you feedback.


It really was. I have this nasty habit of trying to push the horse into turns with my toes, which pushes my heels up. We worked a lot on that today, as well as just relaxing in the seat and flowing with the motion of the horse. 

For some reason, I get a lot of pain in my right knee when I post the trot; I'd forgotten about that because I haven't been posting for a while but we did it today and that pain was right there. It's probably a posture thing, and I'll have to work on it. I'm a little pigeon-toed so it may just be something about the way my legs fall. Not sure.


----------



## phantomhorse13

elle1959 said:


> For some reason, I get a lot of pain in my right knee when I post the trot; I'd forgotten about that because I haven't been posting for a while but we did it today and that pain was right there. It's probably a posture thing, and I'll have to work on it. I'm a little pigeon-toed so it may just be something about the way my legs fall. Not sure.


Try adjusting the way the stirrup falls under your foot.. instead of being straight across, try putting it at a slight angle and see if that helps. While it's not "proper," that helps with my knee pain a lot, as does having stirrups with a very wide foot bed. You may not have much choice for the type of stirrup you are using if you are using someone else's tack, but you can change the angle.


----------



## bsms

Let your toes be at the angle they fall at. Pointing the toes in is a problem, but it is not "wrong" to have your toes out. The toe of my left foot is always further out than my right, including when I stand in the shower...so it has nothing to do with my riding.

George Morris says the stirrup should be perpendicular to the horse, and our foot cross it at the angle needed for our build, which he says can be 10-45 deg.

I think people also focus too much on heels down. I know I have. And while my heel tends to be down, I think I've been getting better results lately by not worrying about it. Compare my youngest and I:










Since I don't jump, I'm not too sure what getting my heels down is buying me. It does help if the horse makes a sudden stop, but I can also handle that by a brief grip with the knees. I understand how it is important for jumping, but I don't jump and I don't use the shorter jump stirrup. My daughter's seat seems to be secure and she normally has her toes level or slightly down - IF she is using the stirrup at all.

For English riding, I like Australian 4-bar stirrups:










I'd like to try this style someday:










Don't know if any of that will help. After swapping Mia for Bandit, I find myself adjusting how I ride...but I guess I'll probably do that thru my last time in the saddle.


----------



## elle1959

Yes, I don't really know why the focus is always on "heels down" when there is so much more to riding. My current instructor has been pretty good about this and tends to focus more on relaxing my core so that I'm bouncing in natural rhythm with my horse. 

The stirrups on her tack tend to hit the ball of my foot at about a 45 degree angle. I feel as though I *may* be subconsciously trying to work the foot to get a straighter angle and this may be partly to blame for the right knee pain. Since I'm right handed, I'm probably focusing more on the right side because that's where I micro-adjust more to keep my balance in the saddle, if that makes sense. I have noticed that the stirrup angle bothers me. Maybe next time I'll try harder to get a better angle before I set off to ride and see what that does for me.


----------



## knightrider

I was curious too. So I Googled it and got many replies. . . but the BEST one was from our very own Horse Forum in 2011. It says it all!
http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/why-keep-heels-down-85868/


----------



## bsms

FWIW, I saw this ad in an NRS catalog a few nights ago. Being the geek I am, I looked at their riding position, particularly their feet. They don't ride like I ride, but they are obviously much better riders, and their horses are moving with a lot more power than mine, so...








​ 
I mention it because I'm experiencing less knee pain when my leg looks more like theirs and less like mine, so to speak. It would not be good for jumping, but I'd need to change a lot of things if I wanted to jump.

Heels down for jumping purposes - according to Littauer and Chamberlin: it pulls the calf tight so you can have firm, solid contact between the lower leg and the horse. That is very important when you are riding with your butt out of the saddle. Not nearly as important riding deep in the saddle, western style. It also helps in using the ankle for shock absorption, IF you are standing in the stirrups or out of the saddle. It does help with keeping the leg secure when your horse balks, although a more western approach would be to have the feet further forward. 

As always in riding, it depends a lot on your goals. I do find my knees hurt less if I ride lighter in the stirrups. It doesn't seem to have made any difference in my security or the horse's comfort while ridden in a western saddle. Not sure I like it, though, when I've tried it in my Australian-style saddle. All FWIW.


----------



## elle1959

Thanks! The center of gravity thing makes a lot of sense. We did work on abrupt stops yesterday as well, from both the trot and the canter and I was able to manage the stops pretty well. My reflex was to grip with my knees and dig in to the seat with my butt, and the instructor seemed to think that was fine. 

So much to learn. I need to get a handle on what's causing the knee pain, but I have a theory that if I can get my stirrups to a perpendicular angle, I'll do better. This probably has to wait until I have my own horse and tack, though.


----------



## phantomhorse13

elle, are you riding western or english for your lessons? I know you probably mentioned that somewhere but I can't remember and am too lazy to go back through all the posts and look.

As others have already pointed out, pay attention to your balance/CoG versus trying to force your heels into an unnatural position. I used to tell my students to breathe out through the bottom of their heel.. relaxing into the place that feels right for you vs jamming your heels down. If you aren't very flexible (and I am not), you can try the stand-on-the-edge-of-the-stair exercise to help stretch out.

I ride with a super long leg and pay little attention to my heels, which are normally about level with the ball of my foot.. if I take my feet out of the stirrups and let my leg hang, the foot bed of my stirrup is actually level with my foot (and I ride with the caged "endurance" stirrups, so they look a bit weird in this pic). This pic also shows just how badly I toe out, and I ride with my toes this way otherwise my knees and ankles scream:











That length is most comfortable for what I do and gives me the ability to just remove my behind from the seat of my saddle. Here is a pic of the 'up' portion of posting:











And you can jump with stirrups that length.. though don't know about jumping _high_ things: :wink:












Next lesson you are on the longe line, ask if you can play with your stirrup length. You might find that down a hole makes your knees a lot more comfortable once you find your new balance point.


----------



## whisperbaby22

I was just about to make that point. One of the problems with english stirrup leathers is that the holes are pre cut; unless the leathers are regularly swapped one will be longer than the other, and you have to go with what you have. I can't remember if you ride english or western either. On my tack, I can move the stirrups up or down a tiny bit as needed, and it helps if I have a issue with my knees or hips.


----------



## elle1959

Thanks. I'm learning western. I tend to feel more comfortable with my legs a bit long on the stirrup but then I am sometimes struggling to keep them on. I'll get it figured out


----------



## waresbear

Actually if you forget heels down and think toes up, your calves are much more effective.


----------



## elle1959

Thank you, everyone! 

I am still a bit sore from the cantering on Monday, but it's a good kind of sore. I feel like I get a great core strength workout when I really ride a horse hard and it's one of the things that appeals to me about this sport, as I'm loath to exercise just for the sake of exercise and since I have a desk-type career I don't get the workout I would if I owned a barn. 

My trainer and I went out for her to take a look at "Joe" last night. She right away identified a major problem and I identified a second one when I asked her to do lateral movement with him. He doesn't know how to move sideways, and he gets spooky at certain movements. He spooked when a small bird flew into the barn. Did not buck, but scooted to the side and circled. 

Other than this, she liked him. His pacing gait was smooth to her as well, and she did manage to collect him into a proper four-beat gait with a little coercion. She felt like he's likely been allowed to sit in a pasture and worked infrequently, and that she could probably work out these problems with just a little bit of time and effort, and teach him the sideways moves at the same time. So he's still on the table, but I'm hoping to look at a couple of other prospects before deciding on him. It was expensive getting her out there so I need to choose wisely. I'm now restricting my search to horses within 25 miles of her property, which greatly limits my options, but I am not in a huge hurry. 

This one is very close to her, and I've been in touch with his seller. She's interested in selling him to me because I am working with a trainer and taking lessons. He's a little older and might be too forward for me but it's hard to know until I ride him. I am trying to get him trailered to my trainer's property today for my lesson but I didn't realize she had a small covered arena until last night so didn't ask until late and it's probably too short notice to arrange. Here he is: 

Docs Sierra Storm, Grey AQHA Quarter Horse Gelding, Solid stout beautiful grey gelding for sale in California - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 1986800 (no picture on this one) 

This one I identified before I realized how expensive it was going to be to get my trainer out on a long distance safari, so he's kind of far. He's beautiful, though. I am going to go see him on Friday at noon. 

Clark Kent, Palomino AQHA Quarter Horse Gelding, Beautiful Palamino Quarter Horse in California - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2009943

I know much less about this horse as his owner isn't as talkative but he seems like a nice prospect; I only wish he were closer as it's going to be another expensive proposition to get my trainer out to see him, unless I can talk the owner into bringing him to her. 

So that's where we are right now. Joe is still a possibility, but less so at this point.


----------



## elle1959

There's an entirely new wrinkle in this tale today. 

I had a lesson with my trainer. Last night I showed her a couple of ads for some quarter horses I am thinking about going to see. Apparently she didn't realize I was open to a non-gaited horse (I really wasn't either, until recently). When I showed up for my lesson today, she offered to sell or lease me one of her lesson horses, a big, ol' Percheron and Quarter Horse mix named Bear. 

Bear is 12 and tall, being half-draft. Not sure how tall he is but he's at least 16h and big-boned like you'd expect a Percheron cross to be. He's very well trained, has a touch more whoa than go, maybe, but he's pretty responsive anyway. He moves off my seat and can get fast if I ask for it. 

She really doesn't need him for lessons that much; the only ones who are riding him are my friends that she works with on the weekends. We could work something out if she wants to continue to use him for lessons here and there. 

It seems like a perfect situation. There are a couple of other horses I'm seeking to look at, just to be sure I'm not missing out on the horse of the century. This situation seems simple and easy and this horse is a sweetheart-- truly a big teddy bear of a horse. Tell my why I shouldn't just go ahead and take him.


----------



## tinyliny

would a lease be workable? I mean that way, if Bear is not your cup of tea, you can finish the lease and go find the one that suits you better.


----------



## waresbear

Me? Tell you not to take him? Hahahaha:rofl: Okay, you shouldn't take him because, um, er, he would be really heavy if he stepped on your toe?


----------



## elle1959

Yes, she suggested either a purchase or a lease. She's just not using him that much so it would help her if someone else was paying for his hay. I think I might do that.


----------



## elle1959

waresbear said:


> Me? Tell you not to take him? Hahahaha:rofl: Okay, you shouldn't take him because, um, er, he would be really heavy if he stepped on your toe?


:rofl:


----------



## tinyliny

a person can fall in love with a draft or draftX real easy.

I leased an Irish draft cross, and that horse was the nicest horse I've ever had the pleasure to ride. 17hh. but, you get used to it.


----------



## SwissMiss

tinyliny said:


> a person can fall in love with a draft or draftX real easy.


There is just so much more horse to love :wink:


----------



## Skyseternalangel

PICTURES, now!!!


----------



## elle1959

Here's Bear!


----------



## elle1959

I don't mind them tall. Noah, the lesson horse in my avatar pic, was 16h and he was as gentle as the day is long. Yes, it's farther to fall but I'm hoping to keep the falls to a minimum, TYVM. 

Bear, as you can see, is a bay Percheron cross. He was a PMU baby out of Canada, so we know for sure his age is 12. He came to my trainer from his previous owner who didn't have time for him anymore. She says he's the sweetest horse in her pasture, and I believe her. 

I have experienced exactly one spook on him, and that was yesterday when another horse who was tied up near the round pen where we were working started getting all wonky and bucking around while tied. She jumped, and Bear flinched. That was it. Then he was back to business as usual. It was over before I even knew it happened.


----------



## whisperbaby22

Nice horse!


----------



## knightrider

I like him!


----------



## elle1959

Thanks, everyone


----------



## knightrider

I keep checking in to see if you have any more thoughts or plans, but no new posts. Everything OK?


----------



## elle1959

Thanks for checking in, Knight  Everything is fine. I haven't done much horsey activity over the past few days, hence the silence. I did miss an opportunity on a beautiful bay tobiano mare but I'm not too upset about it. 

I did come here today to journal on some thoughts I'm having. We've had a lot of rain recently, which is sorely needed, but it's causing me to question whether this is even the right time to take on a horse. I've been leaning toward the lease on Bear, but if el Nino is as strong this winter as they've been saying, and if what we've seen these past two weeks is any indication, it seems I'll have much less opportunity to ride during the coming months. It's starting to seem ridiculous to put out the money to board or purchase a horse right now. 

I have one more horse that I've arranged to see on Thursday. He's an older, gray gelding (17 y.o.) who will be trailered out to my trainer's place for our evaluation because the seller lives nearby and she really would like to have him with me and my trainer as she knows my trainer's reputation. I'll feel bad about rejecting him, if I do. If I really fall in love with him, the decision will be easy, but if I don't then I think I will probably put off any decisions until the early spring. I know that if I board him there it will be business as usual for the stable (BSMS, see what I did there?) but I'll feel bad if I can't get out to see him often due to the weather. The stable is an hour away, so it's a long trip in bad weather. 

Anyway, those are some thoughts. I plan to continue my lessons with the other riding instructor during the winter as possible, but will probably stop making the drive to the farther place for now. We'll revisit the "I need a horse" thing in the spring, and perhaps by then I'll have a bit more skill for evaluating my needs on my own.


----------



## knightrider

This idea is way out in left field, but this morning, when I was riding, my riding buddy and I were discussing a friend who had his horse at one friend's place and moved it to another friend's place, much closer to us. We came up with six people we know who would board a horse at their place for about $200. Not a "barn" or a "stable" but just somebody who has an extra stall or two and wouldn't mind the extra money. Everybody wins.

I am thinking that you want an active (barn/stable) where there are buddies to ride with, an arena, lessons, and such. Being a beginner riding out on your own is probably more than you are ready for. Perhaps in the spring, when you have more experience, it might be something you could consider. You might find a place close to home and not as costly.

About 3 months ago, a man came up our long driveway and asked us if he could keep his bees at our place. My husband and I looked at each other. Well, why not? So now we have 12 beehives on our place. You'd have to ask around--asking someone like me--I know these 6 people who might take on a single boarder on their private place. Even go so far as drive up someone's driveway and ask. (People have done that here too, asked if I could keep their horse--my "barn/stalls/stable" is full, but I refer them to others who are not.)

Just a thought--I'd like to see you having a bit more fun. Oh--and I ride in the rain--put on riding rain gear, a cover for my saddle, nylon bridle--good to go!


----------



## elle1959

That's an interesting thought. I am afraid I'll never get to board too close to home, since I live near the city and there really aren't many horse properties within a half-hour's drive of here. That being said, I do like the idea of finding a place that's close. My original goal, and one of the main reasons I started with the farther-away trainer, was to ride more with my friends who live about a hour and a half from me. The trainer is sort of in-between all of us, and seemed like a good idea. However, we really haven't been able to ride together anyway, due to a lack of lesson horses there, and the more I learn, the more I find myself diverging from them somewhat in what I perceive as important in learning horsemanship. 

They have really been leaning hard toward "natural horsemanship" and I see them eliminating good possibilities for lessons and boarding based on some questionable criteria. As an example, we all visited a boarding facility and they were really put off by the fact that some of the horses there had short tails. I understand why a horse needs its tail, and I would never cut my horses tail, but that doesn't mean that all the boarders at this place will fall into line and do what I would do. 

What they see as a problem with the facility I'm more inclined to take as differences in individual boarders and possibly in the ways they use their horses. We visited another facility that had one paddock with a floor covered in manure. Not attractive and not where I want to board, but probably a self-care disaster for the one horse, as the other paddocks were not nearly so bad. That's a dilemma for the owner, as it makes her place look bad, and she needs to address it with the boarder. So yes, a reflection on the owner but not necessarily indicative of the kind of care you'd get with full-board there. 

I'm rambling now, mostly in an effort to say that riding with my friends is no longer the goal, so I'm more inclined to let go of the stable and trainer that we all chose together in favor of a closer place. My other riding instructor is about 25 minutes away, which is much easier for me. I don't see a lot of other riders there when I'm there but I do often see one or two. My instructor herself has four horses there. So it's a good choice. 

The other choice I would make would be the one where my friends saw the cut-tailed horses  It's closer and it's on a lake with trails. There are over 100 horses there, and it's not expensive. I know that if I board there I'll probably never ride with my friends again (I'll have gone to the dark side) but I'm less inclined to care at this point.


----------



## egrogan

elle1959 said:


> They have really been leaning hard toward "natural horsemanship" and I see them eliminating good possibilities for lessons and boarding based on some questionable criteria. As an example, we all visited a boarding facility and they were really put off by the fact that some of the horses there had short tails.


OK, I'm going to sound like a dummy...but why is cutting a tail "against" natural horsemanship?

Was it banged/squared off on the bottom like this?









Or like a draft breed with a docked tail?









Or...?

I'm with you, I would not overlook a nice boarding facility regardless of your answer to any of those questions I posed!


----------



## elle1959

The reason I was given was that they need their full-length tails to swat flies. I can understand that, but I have also been told that the full-length tail can get in the way of certain jobs that working horses might do. The picture at the top is what my friend was complaining about. I never even noticed them, myself, but she was very put off by it.

I also know that, with a shorter tail, things can be braided into the remaining hair to give them enough length to swat flies. I wouldn't cut my horses tail because I don't plan on giving it a job where the tail could be in the way. I could see trimming up the very end for neatness, though.

They were also put off by the paddocks having little shade other than a tarp overhead. This seems standard around here, since we have milder winters anyway. I don't really understand why that was a problem for them. All this made me question what they were learning or whether they were just making assumptions about things without really doing any research.


----------



## elle1959

BTW, this is the place they didn't like. At about 20 minutes it's closer than any other place for me that's affordable (one that is 3 miles away wants $800 a month to board!!!), it's convenient, they have lots of horses (so plenty of help) and they have great trail access. 

Boarding here is about the same price as the place where the trainer is, but the gas savings would certainly be worth a lot, as would the ability to see my horse more frequently with less trouble and time taken from other things I need to be doing. 

Sacramento Horse Boarding, Riding Lessons, and Trail Rides - Home

Plus, they get great reviews online. I didn't see any problems here, myself.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Never make a decision for yourself based off of other people. That is how you end up unhappy.

What I mean is, find a trainer that works for you. Don't bend over backwards to please your friends.

Is Bear still a contender or are you focused on the grey gelding?


----------



## egrogan

Well, everyone involved with horses has their own opinion about right and wrong. 

But that first picture I posted with the "banged" tail is my mare, and she has never had issues with using it for flies.  It grows too long in the winter and gets nasty with slushy snow and mud, so usually gets cut in the spring and it continues to grow all summer (I do keep the ends squared off as I just like the look of it...)

But anyway, I still can't understand why being at a barn where people trim tails would affect your friend's interest in boarding or taking lessons there. To each their own I guess!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

elle1959 said:


> *The reason I was given was that they need their full-length tails to swat flies*. I can understand that, but I have also been told that the full-length tail can get in the way of certain jobs that working horses might do. The picture at the top is what my friend was complaining about. I never even noticed them, myself, but she was very put off by it.
> 
> I also know that, with a shorter tail, things can be braided into the remaining hair to give them enough length to swat flies. I wouldn't cut my horses tail because I don't plan on giving it a job where the tail could be in the way. I could see trimming up the very end for neatness, though.
> 
> They were also put off by the paddocks having little shade other than a tarp overhead. This seems standard around here, since we have milder winters anyway. I don't really understand why that was a problem for them. All this made me question what they were learning or whether they were just making assumptions about things without really doing any research.


But it's fall going on winter.... flies are not really around as much as summer so I fail to see their concern.

Regarding the tarp, I'd prefer a literal shelter but then a physical shed can cause issues like horses not letting others in. At least a hanging tarp is more open. I'd question if it was as effective at blocking the sun as a shed is.


----------



## elle1959

Well, we went there during the summer, and there were flies then. I agree with not letting my friends dictate my personal terms, which is why I'm probably going to board at the place that has the trails. If you look at their boarding terms, they do have more substantial shelter, but you pay more for that. I'd pay that price to keep a horse happy and safe. 

Egrogan, I didn't really understand it, either. Your horse's tail looks long enough to me. This is why those things made me start to question whether I wanted to make riding with my friends a priority. I'd probably prefer to make new riding friends wherever I end up.


----------



## elle1959

Oh, and Bear is definitely not off the table. If I lease him, though, it's likely to be an onsite lease and that will keep me tied to driving an hour to see him. If I end up purchasing him, I'd take him wherever I want. Just not sure evaluating him on a lease through the winter is the right way to go.


----------



## tinyliny

some freinds can only stay friends if they avoid discussions such as politics and horses.
some can survive a difference of opinion, other get toxic.


----------



## elle1959

tinyliny said:


> some freinds can only stay friends if they avoid discussions such as politics and horses.
> some can survive a difference of opinion, other get toxic.


Yes, I still love my friends  They got me interested in riding, after all. Not sure I can board or ride with them at the same stable, but I'm sure we will be able to ride some trails together at some point. Better to let them take care of things their way and do my own thing, I believe.


----------



## elle1959

Oh, one more thing. El Nino is not simply rain. It's a very severe weather system that will last all winter, bringing floods, landslides, and other fun stuff. If it weren't an El Nino year I wouldn't be too worried, but this is set to be a very difficult season, if predictions hold up


----------



## enh817

We have a couple horses here that have had their tails chewed by cows or other horses, or gotten them caught in something and pulled a bunch of hair out. And of course a younger horse won't have as much tail as an older one. And some horses just don't grow as much tail as others. There's lots of reasons a horse mught not have a full length tail 
As for manure in pens, I'm pretty convinced that horses really don't care if their pens have poop in them, as long as they have a dry spot to lay. All day I see horses standing in their poop when they have plenty of clean places to stand and we all know those horses that will poop and pee right on their hay if it's on the ground. I think clean pens is mostly for people's piece of mind (maybe it's just me being bitter about having to clean 25 stalls a day lol)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bsms

3 horses in 2 corrals. Poop Patrol takes place twice a day. Doesn't seem to bother the horses, but it bothers me.

When I was a teen, I was told you never discussed politics or religion with a date. With some people, I have to expand the list. Sometimes the list gets to the point of not talking, since nothing worthwhile is left. When that happens, I thank God for giving me the personality of a hermit...and remember the old Mac Davis song: "Who cares? I never get lonely 'cuz I treasure my own company!"






:cheers:​


----------



## elle1959

I hear ya on that, BSMS. I am definitely in the hermit category and I love my alone time. I read somewhere that people who are attracted to horses tend to be more introverted. I can believe that. 

Today I had a kick-butt lesson with my riding instructor. I wanted to work on reining; I know that I picked up some bad habits around reining early on, when I was working with my lesson horse at the old stable. He was a bit dull but I learned I could move him by pulling him out fairly hard with a sideways rein. That became a bad habit that stuck, and I know I need to get rid of it. So we worked a lot today on my hand position and getting into turns with the rein in proper position then doing follow-through with the outside leg. 

What a difference that made. I felt far more in touch with Chance, her lesson horse, and I was able to get him into turns and serpentines with ease. The whole time, the instructor was complimenting me on how much better my seat has gotten since we worked on it last week. Everything was clicking in this lesson. We did circles at a walk and at a trot and I got another lightbulb moment in my leg position with regard to how I moved him into the trot. It got a lot easier to get him to move out. 

After we did a lot of work on my hand position and reining, she put me on a lunge line and had me ask for the canter. We got him into a fairly good canter on the lunge line, and then we stopped, took him off the line, and I took him through the arena. It was hard to get him cantering on my own, but I managed a slow lope from him and that will give us something to work on for my next lesson. 

I told her about my plans to shut down my horse-hunting operations until after the winter, particularly with El Nino bearing down on us and threatening a lot of bad weather. I said I'd likely stop working with the other trainer for now and concentrate on the riding lessons with her in order to improve with that. Groundwork is important but I can pick that up with either one of them again come spring. 

I do have one last horse to look at and this is the one being trailered to my trainer's place tomorrow. You never know; it might be love at first sight. I'll keep an open mind.


----------



## elle1959

Had a lesson with my trainer today-- the gray horse's seller couldn't make it so we worked with Bear instead. I'm coming to the conclusion that she's a better trainer than riding instructor. We're splitting these lessons into two halves. The first half is groundwork; the second half is riding. 

Now, I'm the kind of person that needs to have some hands-on, and if I don't get something right, I will turn around and do it again until I do get it right. I find that she is very mechanical in her instruction: _When you do this, you need to put your foot here or else you will end up pulling back on this, which makes the horse think this, and then this happens. _

That's probably exactly right, but I find it way too much to process at once. We're spending far too much time with her telling me what I did wrong and should be doing and not enough time actually doing it. 

I end up spending a good portion of my time with her sitting still on the horse, feeling my eyes glazing over while, in my head, I'm running back through what I just did to figure out what I did wrong and why she stopped me. After she has said whatever it was she wanted to say that I didn't hear because I was thinking about execution, I'll go back and try to do whatever I failed at based on the replay I just ran in my head because, whatever she is saying, it all sounds like Greek to me. Honestly, I learn more during the times she gets distracted and I get to try something over again on my own. 

Today the part where I didn't hear/wasn't paying attention included some instruction about which direction to go (different than the first try) and when I went back to try it again (the same as the first try, since that's how I roll), I could see she was getting frustrated with me, and I was also feeling frustrated. Nothing was right; my legs weren't right, my toes and heels weren't right, my hands weren't right, my balance wasn't right, and now my ability to take direction was also not right. 

This stands in stark contrast to the lesson I had with my riding instructor yesterday, which was just marvelous. I felt good and balanced, I learned things, I was able to think through what I was doing and how it was communicating with the horse, and my instructor was able to give me good direction in real time to help me understand how to do what I needed to do to execute the things we were working on, and she even sent me an email afterward to tell me just how well she thought I had done today. 

I don't have a problem with my seat in that situation. I don't want to do a cop out and blame it on the tack, but honestly, I feel much more comfortable in her saddle and on her horse than I do with the trainer's tack on Bear. Bear has a rough trot and it's much harder to sit. I also find it harder to get Bear to change direction, which leads me toward pulling him harder, and even with hand and leg pulling him hard, he doesn't seem to want to move to the right. I guess it's a problem with my seat, which is squirmy in the saddle she has, but I don't have that problem with the other horse. 

Whatever it is, I just don't seem to be getting it right with her. It feels like I'm learning much more, and having a much better time when I'm working with the instructor who's closer to me. 

I set up another lesson for next week, but I'm thinking of canceling. I have a lot going on, and I'm finding that the idea of reducing my schedule to once a week is appealing right now. I know that, in the beginning, I was told that there'd be conflict. I don't see so much conflict in _what _is being taught, but the way it's being taught is very different. I'm a reflective person and I tend to learn best when I have the opportunity to work and then think about what I just did and what I could do better. I'm just not getting that kind of instruction with the trainer.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

It's good to evaluate each interaction with those that are teaching you, horses included.

This doesn't sound like the right fit to you, from my outside perspective.

You are just getting back into the swing of things, and you're being entirely too hard on yourself. I'm allowed to be hard on myself because I've been at it for awhile on a fairly consistent basis... but you are just getting things going! Your body needs to learn the muscle memory needed to balance. The saddle probably doesn't help, maybe it doesn't even compliment Bear's movements. A lesson should be helpful not confusing. 

I would stick with your riding instructor. Would it be possible to work on Bear with her?


----------



## elle1959

Skyseternalangel said:


> It's good to evaluate each interaction with those that are teaching you, horses included.
> 
> This doesn't sound like the right fit to you, from my outside perspective.
> 
> You are just getting back into the swing of things, and you're being entirely too hard on yourself. I'm allowed to be hard on myself because I've been at it for awhile on a fairly consistent basis... but you are just getting things going! Your body needs to learn the muscle memory needed to balance. The saddle probably doesn't help, maybe it doesn't even compliment Bear's movements. A lesson should be helpful not confusing.
> 
> I would stick with your riding instructor. Would it be possible to work on Bear with her?


Thanks. No, I found out yesterday that the trainer wants an on-site lease, and it would be a bit awkward to have the instructor come out to the trainer's place, and also quite a drive for her. 

I'm trying now to set up a time to go and see the gray gelding tomorrow, if possible, and I'll take my instructor with me instead, if I go. I'm tired of waiting to see him, and if we both like him, I'll buy him and take him to the closer stable, and that will be that. Will let you all know if that meeting takes place tomorrow.


----------



## knightrider

This is exciting!


----------



## elle1959

knightrider said:


> This is exciting!


It kind of is, though I'm a bit weary of the search right now. I've also decided to put the little, gaited paint back on the table if the gray horse doesn't work out. I'll want my other instructor to evaluate him as well, to see what she thinks about his spook. I really, really liked his gait and he was pretty responsive, for the most part. Just sent a message to his seller to see if she still has him.


----------



## elle1959

I was able to make arrangements to meet the gray gelding today at around 2:45. I'm going to meet my instructor at the stable/barn after her 2:00 lesson and we'll go together. It's a half-hour drive from that barn to where he is, so not too bad. 

I'll be very interested in how he is and whether or not he's comfortable for me to ride. There is a thread here that was started by someone who is unhappy with their lesson horse, and one of the problems is a trot that's hard to sit. At my age, and with my brittle bones, I'm not a big fan of a difficult trot, either. Were I younger, I would certainly be interested in learning enough balance and seat to ride any horse easily, but at my age, the main interest here is enjoying this time, and I know I won't have the life-span to become a top-level equestrian. 

Just like with the lessons, I'm at a point where I am asking myself the central question: Am I enjoying this? I'm not really interested in compromising there anymore. The reason I'm putting the black and white gaited horse back on the table is that he has an incredibly smooth gait, even though he paces. For the most part, he was responsive to my asks. I just don't know how easy it will be to fix his tendency to flinch under certain circumstances. 

The gray horse is not a gaited horse, but that doesn't matter. My instructor's horse is not gaited, but he's pretty easy for me to ride because he's well built and his gaits are even and smooth. They aren't as smooth as a gaited horse, but they're fun, and a great workout. There are pros and cons to both types of horse. 

So I am hoping that the gray will have a nice, smooth trot that I can sit easily. Everything works much better for me when I'm not worried about falling out of my seat. Falling, for me, could be a disaster. When I am comfortable in my seat, I don't even think about it, but when I'm not, it's always in the back of my mind. 

I'm older. My bones are brittle. A fall could do disproportionate damage. It's something I'm told will inevitably happen, but I'm not interested in tempting fate and I'd like to avoid it for as long as I can. I accept the risk because I'm enjoying what I do and I don't want to live in a bubble, but that doesn't mean I have to be stupid about it. 

So we'll check out this gray horse today, and I'll post a report here when I get back. If he's not the one, I'll think more about the gaited guy and maybe go have another look at him.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I'm so excited for you to meet him and ride! I love trying out different kinds of horses.

Though, I always favor my boy.


----------



## elle1959

Well, there's one more horse in the mix. A seller I trust just posted a black and white Spotted Saddle Horse mare for sale. Sounds like EXACTLY what I want (except for being a mare) and she's gorgeous, to boot. 

I'd post a link here, but its on Facebook. It's two hours to see her, but I am going to go tomorrow. For this one, since I trust the seller, I do not feel I need to take my instructor but I have invited her to come, in case she is available. It's a long trip, but I feel she might truly be worth my time. 

I am first in line for her. The seller knows I have been looking for a while and took pity on me. She'll hold her, pending a PPE, for $200 (refundable). I really, really hope she works out. 

So, no decisions until after I see the mare.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

No news on how the grey gelding meeting went?


----------



## elle1959

I'm just leaving now!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skyseternalangel

elle1959 said:


> I'm just leaving now!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Safe travels  I hope it goes well

Sorry if that came across strangely, just excited for you is all. I completely spaced on time zones


----------



## elle1959

It's a big old "NOPE" on the grey gelding. He was cute (aren't they all?) but way too feisty at first and doesn't seem to like arena work very much. She said he's good on trails, but I need a horse I can learn with to work toward trails, so he's not going to work for me. 

This next one is younger and will probably need more work getting to the trail part, but that's perhaps a better match for where I am right now. 

Here is tomorrow's prospect: 

_



Spotted Saddle Horse (Mare)

Diva is an 8 yr. old 15,2 hand GAITED Spotted Saddle Horse. Jet black and white. She is a gentle pleasure riding horse who has been used for street/canal/dirt road riding and been on a few trail rides. True to her breed she does not have any buck or rear in her. She neck reins and moves off leg nicely. She has a very comfy 'single foot' gait and a nice canter. She is not a forward horse and rides comfortably at a walk along with the Quarter Horses. She ties, trailers, bathes, and is good for the farrier. Good manners and she is a bit of a character with some silly behaviors like picking up things to play with. Loves attention from people. Not a spooky horse but will be a little 'looky' when something is new. She was leary of some of our crazy obstacles the first time but complied...gained confidence and now she goes throught the
curtain of pool noodles, over the bridge, over the tarp etc. without issue. 
This is a beautiful and sound Mare!

Click to expand...

_I'm stealing these pictures from her ad; hope it's ok!


----------



## elle1959

Couldn't get them both attached. Here's the second.


----------



## elle1959

Skyseternalangel said:


> Safe travels  I hope it goes well
> 
> Sorry if that came across strangely, just excited for you is all. I completely spaced on time zones


Oh, no worries. I didn't take it badly  Figured you were just curious and didn't realize I hadn't gone yet.


----------



## knightrider

The mare is gorgeous. I really like her. I hope it all works out.


----------



## elle1959

Yesterday I awoke, excited to go and see the mare, but the weather did not cooperate. We called it off and rescheduled for today at noon. It will not be rainy today, but it will be windy and cool, so that should provide an interesting backdrop for her evaluation. 

There is a lot of interest in her Facebook ad, and the seller has three others behind me, so I feel a little pressure to make a tentative decision right away. Normally I wouldn't do this, but I trust the seller and I can see the interest, and I believe it is real, so I will take enough money with me to make the deposit if I like the way she rides and her personality doesn't scare me. 

I have a strong desire for this horse to be "the one," and I know that is a precarious thing, but I've learned through the years to trust my gut. As hard as it might be, when I see her, if something seems off about her personality, response to me or the seller when she rides, I will know. My gut will tell me what to do. I feel I can't afford to get too "wanty" on any of these horses because there are so many ways in which they can be wrong for me. But, you know, I do want this one  I hope she's the right one.


----------



## saddlebred99

I hope that it goes/went well! I've enjoyed reading your journal!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I still hope you get a PPE!
Hope the visit goes well!


----------



## enh817

Skyseternalangel said:


> I still hope you get a PPE!
> Hope the visit goes well!


Yes! I would ask that the deposit be contingent on the horse passing a PPE. 
Even with the week trial that we do, where the buyer can bring back the horse within 7 day, and get their money back minus 10%, we fully reimburse if they are returning the horse because it failed a PPE by a respected vet.


----------



## elle1959

Well, this has certainly been an interesting day  

Drove the two hours to see the mare. As I was leaving, I received a text from the seller saying "wind storm here, but we'll make the best of it. All the horses are silly." 

Got about 1.5 hours into the trip and noticed that the trees were moving, a lot. By the time I got to the seller's property, we had sustained winds of 23 mph, and it was cold. 

We went to the barn, got the gal out, I walked around with her. Definitely an in-your-pocket kind of horse, and she didn't seem too spooked by the wind-- yet. No whale eye, no visible stress. Saddled her up and took her out to the arena.

Unfortunately, the arena is right next to a major highway, and there were a few, spitty little trees on the outside, highway side. The mare got off to an okay start, but it was clear she did not like being asked to work in the heavy wind. 

Then she rounded up along the side of the arena facing the highway, got to one of the scary, wind-blown trees, was in-between that and a big, white barrel, when an 18-wheeler came careening down the highway in her direction. 

She reared. The rider (seller's daughter) took a tumble. Everyone was fine. 

The rider got back on, rode her around for ten more minutes, and got her under control. 

I didn't know what to think. It's completely unfair to evaluate a horse under those conditions, and I thought to myself that she's just a horse being a horse. I wouldn't ride in that kind of wind, anyway. The wind was brutal, and on any other day I would never have seen that happen. What to think? 

After she was under control, we took her to the round pen. She seemed relaxed, so I decided to be brave and get on. Walked her around, checked out her mouth and legs to see how she would respond and how much ask she needed, which was not much. 

Sat up in my seat, gave a tiny kick, and off she went into the nicest walk I've ever felt. Gave another tiny kick and she switched gears into a fast walk, smooth as butter. 

And then I gave her one more little kick. 

She moved out into an amazing, single-footing gait that felt just like gliding on ice. My gut was sold. There was no turning back. Sometimes you just have to take a chance. I simply had to buy her. 

Whatever other problems she has, if she really has them, we can work on. I trust this seller, and if she says she's never seen her misbehave until today, I believe her. She's a horse, and it was windy-- very windy. All the horses there were acting up. 

So, assuming she passes her PPE on Wednesday, I'm going to have her trailered to my trainer's place for 30 days of tuneup, just to work out any kinks. She's so beautiful, and so desirable, that I feel there's very little risk. If she doesn't work out for me, she'll be easy to sell to someone else, but I'm pretty sure she's going to be just fine for me. I got a great feeling from her once I was on her. 

So, it looks like I've got myself a horse. Now the journey can really begin!


----------



## knightrider

Yay Yay Yay! This is so exciting! I am so thrilled for you. She sounds wonderful. I am glad you waited until you found the one you couldn't live without! Can't wait to read about the PPE and the delivery . . . and the first couple of rides. What is her name?


----------



## elle1959

Her name is Diva. I have a feeling it's fitting


----------



## sarahfromsc

elle1959 said:


> Her name is Diva. I have a feeling it's fitting


I agree!


----------



## csimkunas6

Woohoo!! Congrats!! So looking forward to more pics of her and more posts of the two of you progressing together as a team!! Congrats again! Im super excited for you!


----------



## saddlebred99

Awh, how exciting!! I'm looking forward to bunches and bunches of pictures! Congrats on your girl, I know you're excited!


----------



## SwissMiss

elle1959 said:


> She moved out into an amazing, single-footing gait that felt just like gliding on ice. My gut was sold. There was no turning back. Sometimes you just have to take a chance. I simply had to buy her....


Yay, soooo happy for you! 

I know that your head is important to decide on a horse, but sometimes you just "click" and you have to listen to your heart!


----------



## jenkat86

I'm so excited for you! Congratulations!


----------



## natisha

elle1959 said:


> BTW, this is the place they didn't like. At about 20 minutes it's closer than any other place for me that's affordable (one that is 3 miles away wants $800 a month to board!!!), it's convenient, they have lots of horses (so plenty of help) and they have great trail access.
> 
> Boarding here is about the same price as the place where the trainer is, but the gas savings would certainly be worth a lot, as would the ability to see my horse more frequently with less trouble and time taken from other things I need to be doing.
> 
> Sacramento Horse Boarding, Riding Lessons, and Trail Rides - Home
> 
> Plus, they get great reviews online. I didn't see any problems here, myself.


The place closes at 4PM? If a person worked 1st shift they could never get out there.


----------



## elle1959

I had assumed that was office hours for lessons and trail rides and things that you need someone there to take a payment. If there's no access at all after 4:00, it wouldn't be a good place to board if I end up working days again (as may happen).


----------



## elle1959

Tonight I feel a very strong sense of satisfaction. Diva has had her PPE and, aside from a case of moderate thrush on all four feet, she's sound. I did have to spring for x-rays on all four feet, since the thrush made her sensitive and we wanted to rule out navicular. She's clear there, so it's all good, and she'll soon be all mine. 

I'm having her delivered to the trainer's place on Friday afternoon. There are so many things I've been setting aside in order to conduct this search, it's insane. I'm behind on everything-- work, school, and suddenly I feel like I have the ability to concentrate on something other than finding the perfect horse. What a relief! 

So, tonight, I'm working to start catching up on my homework and I'll likely not be living online over these next few weeks so that I have time to catch up and finish my course. I'll be around with horse tails, though, you can bet on that. 

Thanks to everyone here for all the help and advice I received during my search. I really feel this place is the best source of information on horsemanship I could have found. Now it's time for chapter two of this journey to unfold. I can't wait


----------



## bsms

We can't wait either...:winetime:


----------



## waresbear

:Congrats! cheers::winetime: Any reason to drink is good with me!


----------



## elle1959

:winetime: I'll drink to that


----------



## weeedlady

Just wanted to tell you that I've enjoyed reading your thread. Thank you for sharing your journey. Your mare is beautiful. Glad you found her. 
M


----------



## elle1959

weedlady said:


> Just wanted to tell you that I've enjoyed reading your thread. Thank you for sharing your journey. Your mare is beautiful. Glad you found her.
> M


Thank you! She's being delivered today, and I can hardly wait  My trainer wants to fit her with some of her own tack today, work her in the round pen for a bit, and take her for a spin. I leave in about two hours to meet the seller there 

:runninghorse2:


----------



## egrogan

pictures! * pictures! * pictures!



Can't wait to see the lovely lady once she's settled. Congrats!


----------



## knightrider

Looking forward to the next chapter in your life!


----------



## elle1959

^^^^ Not sure what's going on with that image but maybe an admin can delete that post^^^^

Here she is! I just posted a thread in Horse Talk about her. She's absolutely wonderful. 



She's an absolute love, and I am completely smitten, and I think my trainer is, too. Was good and quiet in the trailer for the two hour drive, got out, went into the round pen for groundwork, lunged a little, then I rode her. Smooth as butter and really, really nice. 

My trainer put an old saddle of hers on Diva just to get us started. I have one on order and it should be here soon. In the meantime, I can at least get started working with her. 

Here's some video of my trainer putting her through a very quick assessment after I was finished riding her. 






I have to say, I drove home in a fog. How in love I am :loveshower: !


----------



## elle1959

I thought I might go out and check on Diva today, but we got a late start to the day. There was a clinic at the stable today, and parking there is tough anyway, so I decided I could manage to not see her for one day, although I have been thinking about her all day long. 

Tomorrow at noon I have arranged to meet my friends there to let them meet her. My husband wants to meet her, too, so he'll probably go with me. 

For some reason, I feel nervous about handling her on my own. I guess it's because I've always had some sort of supervision getting tacked up and riding, and doing it all on my own with my own horse and no one watching over my shoulder is new territory. I worry I'll do something wrong-- tie a wrong knot, tack her incorrectly, work her in the round pen the wrong way, move her in or out of the pasture wrong, get her too close to the other horses on the way out of her paddock, etc. etc. I guess it's the start of the next phase of this-- gaining independence as a rider. 

I wanted my own horse so that I could practice what I'm learning. This will be the first weekend that I have been able to ride since I stopped going to the stable where I took my first lesson. This will be the first time I will ride when I'm not handing cash over to someone for a lesson. It's kind of amazing to see it all coming true! 

I'm really looking forward to just spending time with her tomorrow. I'd like to bring her out to the arena if I can and ride her in a larger space, as I've never really done that yet. My friends have a lesson there at 11:00 so if I get there by 11:30 to groom her and warm her up, it might be good. 

I worry about her feet being sore and that it's not right of me to want to ride her too much just yet. She's being treated for the thrush, so should be getting better but I don't know if I should push it too much. I do want her to understand that I'm her person. Tomorrow I'm going to bring her carrots and treat her for the first time. Hoping that will help her realize that I am her friend, though she seems pretty mellow in general. She really seems like a horse that will accept almost anything and trusts everyone. 

I ordered a waterproof blanket for her last night to keep her dry and warm. It should be here on Tuesday. The saddle I ordered will be here on Friday. I hope it's a good fit for both of us but, if it isn't, I'll keep looking. My trainer has a bridle and a good bit for us, so that's taken care of. There are grooming tools at the stable that I can use, along with halters and leads, though I have those. What am I missing? Just her.


----------



## EponaLynn

I just read your whole journal and really enjoyed it and I LOVE your mare, she's exactly what I would be looking for myself except I'd probably go for a slightly more forward mover but I've got years of experience (just not so much riding lately and I'm 55!).

I can't wait to see how things progress for you.


----------



## elle1959

I went out to see Diva today. My friends were having their weekly lesson, so while they worked I got Diva out, groomed her and tacked her up. 

She was funny at the lunge. On the very first try, she joined up. I was so happy. Then, after that, she acted like she didn't know what the heck I was asking her for. I'd lunge her in one direction with the lunge whip, and when I'd go to switch hands with the whip, she'd speed up and just move more quickly in the same direction. Not sure what I was doing wrong, but it was very clear that she wanted and needed to run, so I lunged her around the round pen at the canter long enough for her to relax, then sent her into the fast walk. I did repeated attempts at join-up but the most I would get would be turning in toward me, which is fine, I'll take it, since it's most likely something I'm doing wrong. I'm sure once I have a chance to work with her and the trainer together we will get it sorted out. 

Lunged her briefly on the line after that, and then we saddled up and went for a spin. I had hoped to get a chance to ride her in the arena but we stayed in the round pen. It took her a little bit of time to get into gait, but she settled in nicely after a while. We also cantered quite a lot. 

When my friends were finished with their lesson, they both had a chance to ride her, and they both really loved her. 

I really enjoyed the day. I feel as though I have so much more to work on now-- learning what she knows, how to communicate with her, how to properly sit her gaits, how to properly ask her to move out. I worry about her at night, hoping she's okay, hoping she isn't getting cold. I don't know how quickly their winter coats grow, but it seemed to me when I was grooming her today that she was a bit more fuzzy than she had been last time, which made me feel better about her ability to withstand the temperatures we're having. Her waterproof blanket should be here on Tuesday, so hopefully we can get her all snug and dry when things get cold and wet next week.


----------



## SwissMiss

Isn't it interesting how much you start to worry about doing things right/keeping the horse comfortable as soo as it is yours?

I experienced exactly the same! My mare was always on pasture 24/7 with only trees as shelter... With the colder weather coming in I started to wonder if she needs a blanket, being stalled overnight if it's raining... 

Probably completely normal feelings for new horse owners :wink:

Enjoy your Diva :loveshower:


----------



## bsms

FWIW, I'm not a fan of 'join up'. It doesn't mean the horse likes you or respects you. In most cases, it just means the horse has found the only way to get relief is to pretend to be a dog.

In my backyard rider opinion, a better way to build trust and a relationship is to simple walk the horse around on a lead line, making stops at places where it can graze and relax. Then the horse learns you are someone who takes it good places and keeps it safe. It also lets you learn to read the horse's moods, which is easier to learn from the ground than from the saddle.

If someone puts our little BLM mustang in a round pen, he tries to "join up" immediately. He was frequently punished by being made to race around a round pen until tired, and he learned the only way to make the mean person leave you alone was to follow them. So he will 'join up' and follow the human's every move out of fear.

But that is my personal opinion, and a lot of folks disagree. I suspect join up is like a lot of things with horses - done right, its great, done wrong, its harmful.


----------



## egrogan

bsms said:


> FWIW, I'm not a fan of 'join up'. It doesn't mean the horse likes you or respects you. In most cases, it just means the horse has found the only way to get relief is to pretend to be a dog.
> 
> In my backyard rider opinion, a better way to build trust and a relationship is to simple walk the horse around on a lead line, making stops at places where it can graze and relax. Then the horse learns you are someone who takes it good places and keeps it safe. It also lets you learn to read the horse's moods, which is easier to learn from the ground than from the saddle.
> 
> If someone puts our little BLM mustang in a round pen, he tries to "join up" immediately. He was frequently punished by being made to race around a round pen until tired, and he learned the only way to make the mean person leave you alone was to follow them. So he will 'join up' and follow the human's every move out of fear.
> 
> But that is my personal opinion, and a lot of folks disagree. I suspect join up is like a lot of things with horses - done right, its great, done wrong, its harmful.


Couldn't have said it better. I've never been at a barn with a roundpen, so have never experienced the famed "join up," yet I still seem to be around a lot of happy, respectful horses even without that experience. 

Actually, until I started visiting Horse Forum, I never knew there was something called "lunging for respect." I have taken lunging lessons from an instructor trained in the classical German dressage tradition, but those were focused on lunging as a tool to teach a horse proper self-carriage and build fitness. The first few lessons actually didn't involve a horse at all; I had to prove I could hold the line without tangling myself in it by "lunging" my instructor on the end of it, and demonstrate that I could use the lunge whip with precision by hitting a series of targets taped to the arena at various heights and distances away from me. Only after that did a horse become part of the lessons.

As bsms says, there are a lot of different ways to accomplish goals with your horse; this one in particular has just always left me feeling so confused. To some people, it's a non-negotiable fundamental step, and to others, it doesn't even register as an option. Anyway, not meaning to start a lunging debate...it's really a personal decision how to proceed.

Glad to hear of your plan to get to know Diva and figure out your next steps in working with her. She really is gorgeous!


----------



## elle1959

Thanks, everyone! My trainer insists on working for the join-up and insists on lunging before riding in order to gauge the horse's mood. Diva needed and wanted exercise yesterday, so that was my primary concern in lunging her. She hasn't been turned out there because we need to pull her hind shoes still before the trainer is willing to put her in with the others at pasture. 

I appreciate the various opinions here, as it all helps me to determine more about her long-term future. I'm not married to a particular training method, and, IMO, she's already exquisitely trained. I'm more concerned about doing something to sour her training. My limited experience with her is that she's eager to please, mellow, and playful. She doesn't need to be scared into submission; she knows what to do and does it. Did I mention she's playful? The very first thing she did when we got into the round pen yesterday? Lie down and roll in the sand. I laughed. Then she got up, looked at me and decided it was time to run, and run she did. 

I agree with you BSMS in walking her around. I'd like to just take her around the property and show her some of the new, potentially scary, things. Hang out with her, pet her, give her carrots. Hopefully, wherever and with whomever we end up long-term, we'll have a lifetime to work together.


----------



## elle1959

Honestly, my preference right now would be to work with her in the round pen without trying anything other than observing how she responds to my body language and the position of the lunge whip. Next time I go out I think I will do that.


----------



## tinyliny

I enjoy your thread , too. it's one of the few that I consistentl check back on .

if the horse has such sore feet, as you are worried about, then why did she move as well as she did under your trainer? maybe her reluctance to have the picked out (your other thread) is more a behavior thing, residual memory of times when it did hurt more.

anyway . . . back to join up and round pen work. my feeling is that a person should have some help doing it, until they get pretty good at it. doing it "wrong" too much can reinforce unwanted responses in the horse. by unwanted I mean that a horse that is confused by a human lunging them will be uncomfortable and start exhibiting negative responses. this can be anything from ignoring the human , or head thrashing, teeth gnashing, threat postures, etc. it makes the horse have negative associations with rround pen work, and with the human.

so, sure, mucking about in the round pen once or twice when aren't really sure what you're doing isn't going to "ruin" your horse, if you keep mucking about you can start to crystalize the horse's idea that both you and the round pen are not good things. 
join up should be the action of the horse seeking you out because you are the best place to be. its' learning how to get the horse to feel that way that makes a round pen session a good learning experience instead of a bad one.


----------



## elle1959

Thanks! I'm glad everyone is enjoying the journal. I was thinking that too, about the memory. Her feet were sore at the PPE, so clearly she's still recovering, but if she's recently had pain during foot cleaning, I'm sure she remembers that, as well. She did struggle before I even began to clean them. I made sure to hold all four feet until I was ready to put them down, so that it was my decision and not hers. 

I have to go out to her tomorrow, as the farrier is coming to pull her back shoes and trim her up a bit to help get some of the thrush out. I still have to do the paperwork with my trainer; I believe I get two lessons per month with her for no additional cost so I will see if I can schedule some work with her either late this week or early next week. I certainly don't want to sour her on the roundpen, and she did seem confused, so I'm not sure if I was not doing it correctly or if she was trained to do this a different way than I've been taught. Looking to my trainer for clarity on this, but she also needs the opportunity to work with her first and I don't know that she's had that yet, so we can talk tomorrow.


----------



## tinyliny

if round pen work is done correctly, it does not matter what sort of training the horse has had before. if the handler is extrememly clear , then they will be using body language that every horse knows. and if the horse goes onto autopilot, responding with what he thinks he should do based on prior training, then the handler will correct that and get the horse actually listening to the handler, rather than respnding in a rote manner. 

it is because the whole purpose of round pen work is to fine tune the communication between handler and horse, with a purpose of bringing the horse to be looking to the handler for direction AND feeling good about being with the handler (because the handler is clear in their requests, and fair)


----------



## elle1959

Yesterday the farrier came out to work on Diva's feet, so I drove the 50 minutes up the hill to be there while she was working and to pay her when she was finished. 

Diva was pretty good. She had a few rebellious moments, but my trainer held her and made sure she didn't go too far astray. She does not require a lot of correction when she gets out of hand, so that's promising. 

It was getting rainy by the time the farrier was finished. She pulled Diva's rear shoes so that she could be turned out in the pasture. She also said that her thrush was almost gone, which was great to hear. Hopefully we'll see that cleared up completely within another week. 

I'm paying my trainer for one month of half-time tuneup at her place, but afterward I am not sure what I'm going to do. My husband discovered that there is a riding club not far from here with boarding stables and trail access. I sent them an email inquiry about rates, and their rates are affordable but they don't have any openings right now. I asked them to put me on their waiting list; there is one person ahead of me, so I don't know how long that will take. They will allow my trainer and instructor to come to their site to teach, which is important. 

I'll go out there and take a look at the facility, perhaps on Friday. It's all completely rebuilt within the past few years, so it looks pretty nice from what I can see on their website and I hope it lives up to the impression the site gives. If I end up boarding her there, it will reduce the drive to see her from 50 minutes to 12. That will fit considerably better into my day! 

Today I had a lesson with my regular riding instructor on her lesson horse. That barn is 25 minutes from home, so I may end up moving Diva there while I wait for an opening at the club. 

In today's lesson, we worked on serpentines with cones, and different ways of moving the horse through the space, either by direct reining and outside leg or lateral movement using the opposite rein. After that I got a chance to work with him without the reins, trying the same things with leg and seat only, at the walk and the trot. I did okay, but the horse got away from me on a few occasions. Clearly I need lots more work at that, but it helped me to see what I need to do better with my leg cues! 

All in all, it was a great day. Since this is a journal about my journey with horses, I'll not go into all the other things that were also good about today, but I have much to be thankful for this Thanksgiving eve.


----------



## elle1959

Today was a very dissatisfying day with Diva. I'm not sure why, but she was definitely off her game today, and very much so. I spent a couple of hours with her and we had an interesting time. Here's the email I sent to her trainer today. 



> We had a problem with the saddle (the new one is here, so I'll bring it on Sunday when I come). It ended up slipping and I dismounted to fix it but when I did it slipped over more, so it was very difficult for me to get it off of her. She was very patient with me while I worked to get it loose but it was clear she wasn't that happy.
> 
> When I finally got it on her again, I mounted up and we walked for a bit, then I asked her for speed and she went into this bone-jarring, pacey gait that I'd never felt from her before. I tried to get her past it, but the only thing she would do beyond that was canter (much smoother). So basically, today she had three gaits: walk, boom-boom-boom, and canter. After a while I decided not to let her do the pace so when I'd ask her for speed and she'd break into that, I'd slow her back to a walk. We did achieve a fast walk for about 30 seconds or so, but that was it.
> 
> So I don't know what was different today. She was in the arena and not the round pen. She was probably tired. She has shoes on the opposite feet from last time I rode her. She was probably ****ed about the saddle thing (I also had to get tough with her in order to mount after that). She also mouthed the bit the whole time-- I double checked to make sure it was straight and over her tongue, so not sure why it might be bothering her.
> 
> Don't know if it's any or all of those things or something else, but that pacing gait needs to be shown the door
> 
> Other than that, she was pretty good. She still wants to be forward on the lead and she didn't really want to pick up her feet for me when we got back down, but she did, and she held them okay.


So, the saddle that she has right now is one I'm borrowing from the trainer. Mine came in today and I don't know if it will fit her any better, but I hope it does. In addition to the things I put in the email, this might have also been a matter of poor saddle fit and/or position. This is also the first time I've ridden her since she's been turned out with the other horses. She wasn't hard to catch today, but was definitely avoiding me to some extent for the first 30 seconds or so that I was trying to get to her. 

Today I didn't bring treats for her. It was clear that she wanted a treat after we were finished and I should have had one, but at the same time I'm not sure I wanted to reward that pacey gait. I just don't have a clue what has changed to make her so rough. She has been so smooth every other time I've ridden her. I pray with all my heart that this isn't something she'll keep doing. Definitely NOT what I spent my money for.


----------



## walkinthewalk

Mares cycle every month. Might want to keep a record of the days she is off and see if there is a monthly pattern.

If a little off is the worst she gets, give Thanks, lol

i have seen mares in heat behave and scream worse than a stallion. An old insurance agent sold his daughter's 4-H mare because she was so ill-tempered when she came in heat. 

Winning horse and sweet horse when she wasn't cycling but was a danger to his daughter when she was cycling.


----------



## elle1959

Yes, I was warned against buying a mare and, if I made a mistake in doing so, I will deal with it by finding her a new home. If this is all it is, and if this is as bad as it gets, I can handle it. She was still very good, considering the issues we had with the saddle. She had ample opportunity to smack me around if she'd wanted while I worked under her to get the saddle loose, and she chose not to.


----------



## knightrider

Please don't overthink this. I've had the saddle slip when I was mounting probably a hundred times in my life. . . and seen the saddle slip for other people probably a hundred more times. It doesn't affect the horse at all--about as if someone accidentally stepped on your foot and immediately said, "Oh, sorry, excuse me, didn't mean to." You wouldn't think anything of it and the horse shouldn't either. 

If the saddle doesn't fit, that's another story, but not a big one. How much have you ridden her in that saddle? It is true that poor saddle fit will cause a horse to gait worse, but not THAT worse, not going from glass smooth to bone jarring. Even touchy tender little Isabeau continues to gait decently with saddles she insists don't fit. And, by the way, it IS VERY HARD to unfasten the saddle and get it back on the back after it has slipped. And every horse I have ever seen sighs, gives you a dirty look, and tolerates it. And that's it.

For most mares, going into season is not a big deal. It is very similar to humans--some women PMS pretty miserably, most just deal with it. There are medications and supplements to give mares that act up when they are in season. I've owned about as many mares as I have geldings. The saying is (and I believe it with all my heart) "A good mare is better than a good gelding." Mares tend to "look after" their riders more than geldings --this is a VERY general observation. There are many mares who don't and many geldings who do. So the word here is "tend". I think mares tend to be more attuned to rider's cues than geldings. I've had some VERY good mares over the years and some VERY good geldings, but on the whole, my good mares tended to be slightly better than my good geldings. DO NOT be sorry you got a mare, please. This is probably just a blip in your history together.


----------



## bsms

I've got a gelding now, but in my heart I prefer mares. Bandit is a much more business-like horse than Mia, which is good in many ways...but not entirely what I want.

FWIW, Mia had an incredibly smooth jog. When she was feeling somewhat irritated with me, she also had a bone-jarring trot. I'd become totally dead weight in the saddle and pound her back until she decided smoother was better.

Bandit, OTOH, is trotting smoother since I've started putting the saddle further back. The analogy used on my favorite website about western saddle fit was two spoons nestled together - which seems to work with Mia and Trooper. But with Bandit, the saddle pretty much stays in place regardless of where on his back I put it. He has a pretty level back.

Just looking at him, he doesn't seem to have big shoulders. But walking around with him, saddled up, and one hand under the saddle and next to his shoulder...it felt like it was causing pressure. So I moved it back about 3 fingers, and he is using his front end better. However, his front left foot was pretty wonky while in shoes, and it has now pretty much grown back to normal - so it could be his front left leg now moves better since the foot isn't badly shod. But I'd keep interference with the shoulder as a possible explanation for a harsh trot from a horse who normally is smooth.

The important thing is that you are listening to your horse and not blaming the horse. They ARE to blame sometimes, but as James Fillis put it (in the unfortunately named book Breaking and Riding):"In place of first putting the blame on the horse, which is only natural,the rider ought perhaps begin by trying to find out if he himself is not the culprit." (pg 150) Published 1890​Or as Wilhelm Museler puts it in Riding Logic (1933, 5th edition 1983): "It is the horse which is undoubtedly the best and only master of the art of giving the rider a sense of feel. Patiently and untiringly it can tell its rider where he is going wrong. One has only to interpret its reactions and make corresponding corrections."​"*One has only to interpret its reactions and make corresponding corrections.*"​ 
Yeah...that is all. Just interpret and make corrections...BWAHAHAHAHAHA! To my way of thinking, that sentence just about summarizes riding. If only it was so easy! I suspect I'll spend the rest of my riding life trying to do that single sentence...:icon_rolleyes:


----------



## elle1959

Thanks, everyone. I have asked around and received dozens of thoughts about what caused this. My trainer wrote back and said that she thinks it's because she was alone up there in the arena after being in pasture with the other horses for several days, so she's going to check her out and see what she does. The round pen is near other horses, but the arena is not. I am inclined to think it's probably saddle fit, placement, or shoes, but what do I know? I defer to the experts since I'm clearly not one  

The saddle she's currently in has been slipping all along. She has a very broad back, and is going to be hard to fit. The one I bought for her has a wide tree, so hopefully will be better. I do think that I might have had it too far forward for her liking yesterday, so those are good points, bsms. 

I've seen products for "mareishness" so perhaps if she has a hard time with her cycle I could try a supplement. I wouldn't sell her just for that, but if I can't get a good gait out of her during her cycle I'm not sure what I would want to do. I did buy her specifically for her smooth gaits. Hopefully, as you said, Knight, this is just a blip. 

I worried about her all night, of course. Just want to figure out what's wrong and make it right again.


----------



## phantomhorse13

My money would be on the shoes (or lack there of, if I read your post correctly). Weight on the feet can make a huge difference to a horse's gait.

Agree that the saddle slipping should not phase a broke horse, which it certainly sounds like your girl is. Having one that fits is a necessity though. Hope the saddle you have coming does the trick.


----------



## elle1959

I went back out today with the new saddle. The trainer was there, so she and I worked together a little bit, and I was able to get her back into her ambling gait to some degree by using half-halts. The saddle seems much better for both of us than the one I was borrowing. And, it turns out she's not pacey, she's trotty, so it's not as bad as it could be, though her trot is horrible to ride. 

Knightrider, the book that you recommended came today, so I looked at that when I got home and have a few more things to try with her to help her get back into gait. These have to do with my seat and my hands-- basically, sitting a little bit heavy to hollow her back a bit and raising my hands to lift her head a bit. According to Lee Ziegler, that should move her out of the trot and back into the amble. 

My friend and I are taking a lesson together in the morning so I will have the opportunity to try this tomorrow. I feel more relieved in knowing that she can and will still gait; not sure what the situation was that caused her to revert to trotting, but there are so many new things in her life, it's hard to say. 

I am feeling much relieved, though. I worried about her all night, thinking there was something wrong that would never go right again. Looks like that's not going to be the case. I just have to work a little harder to get little miss princess Diva doing what we know she's capable of!


----------



## tinyliny

also, in round pen, horse is always on a curve. in arena, they are on larger curves or straight lines. can make a big difference.


----------



## walkinthewalk

tinyliny said:


> also, in round pen, horse is always on a curve. in arena, they are on larger curves or straight lines. can make a big difference.


Much to be said for that

I hate round pens to begin with. When I bought my three year old TWH at auction, he had 60 days of padded training. That pretty much meant I knew he would not buck me off and would take a bit, lollol

I worked him on the long rail. For me, the long rail meant the 600 feet of one side of the front pasture woven wire fence. I was 57 when I bought him so I chose to work him at home "on the rail" for a couple months before we went out the driveway.

Sultan had a beautiful running walk that All I had to do was learn to sit back and control it. Sadly I lost him in a freak pasture accident a year after I bought him

Work Diva on a long rail if you can. Don't forget, gaited horses do not do well in tight turns. If the roundpen isn't at least 100' round, you may continue to have problems. My neighbor built one that was 200' round:runninghorse2:


----------



## elle1959

I'm taking her up to the main arena for some straighter work tomorrow if I go. Feeling a cold coming on, so it's salt-water gargles tonight for me, and hopefully we're good for tomorrow. 

Had a good lesson with Diva's trainer today. She has a knack for catching me out the fourth time I do something, after I've done it flawlessly the three times before and have decided to change something to see what happens. 

"Did you think you had control of the horse there?" Well, no. I didn't there, because I was messing around with my seat. But the three times before, I did. I'm not saying I'm doing everything right, by any stretch, but sometimes I need a little explanation. 

Example: Today she kept telling me my one rein stops were "lame." I'm like, how can they be lame? I pulled the rein back on one side, and she stopped. 

Well, no. They're lame because I didn't get the horse's head circled all the way around and relaxed. So-- why is it called a stop? Why isn't it a "one-rein-pull and even if they stop keep pulling until their head is back and mellow sorta thingy?" 

I asked her to explain fully why the object isn't to get the stop, so she did. But the thing is, I had to ask. I'm not good at just taking things at face value. I question, I research the hell out of everything, and if it doesn't make sense, I'm only going to do what does make sense until you tell me why it needs to be done differently. 

So, now I get it. We do get along, this trainer and I, and I appreciate her knowledge. It's just hard, sometimes, to keep an open mind. I'm definitely learning more than I bargained for. 

Diva is still testing and I know that a large part of it is that I'm rather green with her, but I'm getting better. She came to me today when I went to catch her. I didn't have to go for her. She was good with her feet. All that speaks volumes and I feel like I need to spend at least an hour with her virtually every day for the next few weeks, at least. We're getting places together. It's fun. But I can't wait for the day when I feel confident to work with her on my own, and will have her close by.


----------



## elle1959

Here is Diva demonstrating her lovely trot today  

Actually, I kept her out of her trot much better today than before, but she happened to be trotting when this picture was taken.


----------



## tinyliny

I don't think that's quite a trot, really. the diagonal pairs are not united, so it might be some kind of gait, but does not come across as a trot. is that you or the trainer?


----------



## elle1959

That's yours truly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EponaLynn

Do your stirrups feel a bit long to you Elle? They almost look it to me.


----------



## walkinthewalk

I can see why Diva felt like an off-balance agitator in a washing machine, lol

Diva is too hollow in that pic, IMO. The horse in my avatar was a step pacer and even he never got that hollow when he was in high stepping pace gear

*Tiny is right. *She is not trotting in the real sense.

That is a hard lateral movement, as the front and back legs of each side are moving in unison. A real trot means diagonal legs are moving.

What you should have done immediately was:

Lower your reins
Lighten your seat pressure by tilting your pelvis slightly forward.

Simultaneously ask Diva to walk, thus bringing her down to a dog walk.

Let her dog walk once around, then gently ask for an extended walk.

I am flat out a lousy teacher. It is really tough for me to pen what I want to say. It's the same as when people ask me for directions, I know how to get where they want to go but try and tell them :neutral:

Was this lesson with the trainer who knows zip about gaited horses because I see a few things that I would ask you to do different.

If I were giving you lessons, the first thing I would do is make you shoot a double of Jack Daniels, lollol. You are a perfectionist and try way too hard to get things perfect right off the bat.

Stop trying so hard --- you make yourself a wreck and probably cause some co fusion with Diva. She seems to be an exceptionally patient horse and for that, please thank your lucky stars

As far as the stirrups: while gaited riders do ride with longer stirrups, Elle iit does appear as if your foot might not be touching the stirrup as securely as it should. Your feet should not be able to easily slide off the stirrup while the horse is in motion. You should have to give them a slight wiggle to get them out of the stirrups.


----------



## elle1959

Okay, NOW I am doing this:

:rofl:

It has been many a moon since anyone accused me of being a perfectionist. Mostly, what I am is a sloppy, used-to-be-sorta-smart, old lady who's most likely losing her marbles and wants to learn how to ride a horse well enough to get on a few trails before they send me off to the old folks' home. If you said that to my husband, he'd spit out his beer laughing. 

Seriously, though, I appreciate your advice and your knowledge. Lee Ziegler also says to push the pelvis forward but she suggests holding the reins a few inches higher than the normal position. Diva does have her head high here and one of the problems we're having with her is that she's mouthing the bit the whole time. To me, she seems distracted. It could just be my sloppy riding, or that could be a contributor but, like her, I have the patience to work to sort it all out. My goal for us as a team right now is trails in maybe six months to a year. Not pushing us. At all. 

As for her gait in the photo, I guess I am confused because what I see in the photo is diagonal movement, not lateral. I just looked at it again. Her normal fast gait seems to be an amble, which is an uneven lateral gait, so when I saw the two hooves up in this photo on the diagonal, I assumed she was trotting. I don't know that she has an uneven diagonal gait that would qualify as "not a trot" but maybe she does and I just haven't figured that out yet. 

I think I have to stop trying to read and learn because it appears the more I educate myself, the more stupid I become! Going out to see her again today and hope to practice what I'm learning more. More important to me right now is the time we're spending together.


----------



## elle1959

EponaLynn said:


> Do your stirrups feel a bit long to you Elle? They almost look it to me.


I'm not having too much trouble with them at that length. Everyone here says that I prefer to ride them too short, and I'm being encouraged to ride with them longer. According to my trainers this is because my goal is trails and, in the long run, I will have less knee pain on a long ride if I ride them longer. 

Since most of the advice I receive appears to be daft, maybe that's not right. I don't really know what to think anymore. Maybe today i'll put them up by a notch and see how it feels.


----------



## knightrider

walkinthewalk said:


> Much to be said for that
> 
> I hate round pens to begin with. When I bought my three year old TWH at auction, he had 60 days of padded training. That pretty much meant I knew he would not buck me off and would take a bit, lollol
> 
> I worked him on the long rail. For me, the long rail meant the 600 feet of one side of the front pasture woven wire fence. I was 57 when I bought him so I chose to work him at home "on the rail" for a couple months before we went out the driveway.
> 
> Sultan had a beautiful running walk that All I had to do was learn to sit back and control it. Sadly I lost him in a freak pasture accident a year after I bought him
> 
> Work Diva on a long rail if you can. Don't forget, gaited horses do not do well in tight turns. If the roundpen isn't at least 100' round, you may continue to have problems. My neighbor built one that was 200' round:runninghorse2:


On p. 85 of Lee Ziegler's book _Easy Gaited Horses_, she says, "It is normal for gaited horses to have problems doing their easy gaits in smaller circles. If you help your horse adjust his head and neck position and start at slower speeds before you ask for his easy gait on the longe, he may be able to do some gait work as he develops increased flexibility and the ability to rate his speed in his gait. But as long as he can do basic exercises in the walk, don't worry if he does not work in gait on the longe. For horses that have trouble doing their gaits on the line, use longe-line work to complement ridden gait work, not to replace it."


----------



## elle1959

One other thing-- not sure where the idea that my trainer doesn't know anything about gaited horses came into play. When I met her, she had a MFT and a TWH under training and I just met a boarder who has a RMH at her barn that she also trained. She's about to take in another pair of gaited horses for training. 

When I went out there yesterday, the first bit of advice she gave to me was exactly the same as what I'd read in Lee Ziegler's book, which boosted my confidence that she's probably the right trainer for me and Diva. 

Out here in California, you'll be hard pressed to find a trainer that doesn't work with a round pen. It's part of the cowboy culture of the area that grew up from the _vaquero_ methods of Mexico. We use the round pen to assess her mood and to get her moving at liberty for a short period to bring her into calmness before we ride. 

I understand that training back east, particularly for walking horses, is quite different but I don't think that blending methods is necessarily a bad thing. It I want her tuned up by someone who doesn't use a round pen I might have to send her back east. That's how prevalent they are here.


----------



## walkinthewalk

I thought you had two trainers and one is gaited horse savvy, the other one is not. in the words of my ex "there Imgo thinking again" -------


You might not be a perfectionist in the rest of your world but you're trying to be one in the horse world, lollollol

Watch the rider in this video, not the horse.

Notice how her legs are almost straight down, yet she has her feet firmly planted in the stirrups.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yJCAF-g1WBE

Also, what kind of bit did the owners of Diva use on her? If you aren't using the same type of bit, she is most likely getting mixed signals between a different type of bit and you being a new rider.

If you know what kind of bit they used, go back to it.

If you are using the same type of bit, there might be enough difference in thickness that it bothers her if she has a low pallet or a thicker than normal tongue


----------



## knightrider

Since you have the book,_Easy Gaited Horses_ you probably already know this. When I bought the book, I knew NOTHING about gaited horses. I was shocked to read this passage, on p. 8. I will share it with other people (I'm sure you've already read it) who might be reading this thread with as much interest as I am:

"Sometimes, however, a peculiar thing happens as you spend more time riding your new gaited horse. The lovely gait that originally came with him may change or evaporate entirely, often about the time he needs a hoof trim or a new set of shoes. He may start to 'wiggle differently' in some other smooth gait. Worse yet, he may start to bounce you in something that is not a trot, but just as uncomfortable. 'What happened?' you wonder. How could this horse, the love of your life, change into a rough-riding nightmare?

"It happens because easy gaited horses don't read their registration papers, let alone the glowing accounts that fill the breed literature. No matter what the breed, no matter how pure the bloodlines, no matter how thorough the training may have been, the reality is that almost all easy-gaited horses can, on occasion, offer gaits you may have never heard of, some of which are not particularly easy to ride. To enjoy consistently the gliding gait that convinced you to 'go gaited' you need to be more than a passive load of freight on your horse's back. You need to figure out what gaits he can do and actively help him perform the one you prefer."

And the rest of the book tells you exactly how to do that.

When I bought my extremely well-bred yearling Chorro in 2005, he NEVER gaited in the pasture. For two years, I watched him trot wherever he went, my heart sinking. My daughter's pony NEVER trotted. Could I possibly train this horse to gait? I wondered. Ah, but I have this terrific book!, I reminded myself and tried not to worry. When it was time to start riding Chorro, his gait was flawless. My first time gaiting him, had me grinning the biggest Paso grin ever! Still, his gait was not consistent like my daughter's Paso, I used that book faithfully, and it was right on the mark for me.

On the other hand, my neighbor, (the one Isabeau calls Curdmugeon) says that a well-bred gaited horse will never lose gait and Lee Zeigler is wrong. I don't know. I did the things Lee Ziegler recommended, and ended up with a horse with amazing gaits.

I hope the book helps you as much as it helped me.


----------



## walkinthewalk

elle1959 said:


> One other thing-- not sure where the idea that my trainer doesn't know anything about gaited horses came into play. When I met her, she had a MFT and a TWH under training and I just met a boarder who has a RMH at her barn that she also trained. She's about to take in another pair of gaited horses for training.
> 
> When I went out there yesterday, the first bit of advice she gave to me was exactly the same as what I'd read in Lee Ziegler's book, which boosted my confidence that she's probably the right trainer for me and Diva.
> 
> Out here in California, you'll be hard pressed to find a trainer that doesn't work with a round pen. It's part of the cowboy culture of the area that grew up from the _vaquero_ methods of Mexico. We use the round pen to assess her mood and to get her moving at liberty for a short period to bring her into calmness before we ride.
> 
> I understand that training back east, particularly for walking horses, is quite different but I don't think that blending methods is necessarily a bad thing. It I want her tuned up by someone who doesn't use a round pen I might have to send her back east. That's how prevalent they are here.


<sigh> I know. I lived in Riverside County five years. Horse training methods were a real culture shock. I could tell by the methods someone used if they were from back east or had always lived in the western states.

Except for the Montana Cowboy. That man could train a horse. He should have been writing books and giving lessons instead of working for the city, lol

When I was young only rich folks had round pens, lol. We poor farm kids had to learn to use the tractor lanes, disked fields, teach lead changes against the pasture fences. Jumps were dead tree limbs in the back of the pasture.


----------



## elle1959

Yes! I read this too, and it greatly relieved my concern that Diva had somehow been "broken" in the sense that she'd lost her gaits and would never regain them. I think that what some are seeing in me as perfectionism is just a commitment to learn how to ride this horse correctly. 

My trainer summed it up by saying that learning horsemanship with a gaited horse is like learning to drive in a Ferrari. Probably not the best choice for a beginner because there is so much more to it than just sitting down, putting it in drive, and hitting the gas. So if I'm committed to the gaited horses, which I am, then I have to learn to drive the Ferrari, and I expect it to be complicated and challenging. 

Another thing I want to put out here for those who may be wondering about my choices. I have osteoporosis. My bones are brittle and a fall could be devastating. Just a hard trot could be devastating to my spine. I chose what I needed to make this work *for me* so that I would have the confidence to remain in the saddle on a horse that is not going to buck me off or move in a way that will cause me to fall. Or, at least, it's less likely. 

It's important for me, physically, that she be the smoothest she can be. If that sounds like I'm seeking perfection, well maybe I'm really just trying to keep us both safe and happy together. 

And yes, I am insane for wanting to learn riding with a spine that might snap in half, but I'm old enough to make my own choices and there are few things I have enjoyed more than riding. It's *good* for my bones in the sense that the exercise and gentle motion serve to build bone strength. Should it somehow go awry, well, I can think of worse ways to leave this world.


----------



## tinyliny

you forgot the most important part, the double shot of whiskey. that is what REALLY makes the lesson go well. works for me!


----------



## elle1959

tinyliny said:


> you forgot the most important part, the double shot of whiskey. that is what REALLY makes the lesson go well. works for me!


Maybe I'll try this before I go out today


----------



## bsms

I can't give any advice on getting a gaited horse to gait. I know nothing about them. Is it wrong for them to trot? I guess I thought a gait was in addition to the standard W/T/C.

Bent knees will not make your knees sore while trail riding. PRESSURE going thru the knees can. Bracing in the stirrups can kill the knees. But bent and relaxed will not cause a problem. My youngest:








​ The bend in her leg does not cause her problems because she views stirrups as an optional decoration placed on saddles - and her foot is in them because her Dad gets fussy if they are not. No pressure so no problem.

OTOH, I came to western riding from the old school of the forward seat, where the rider DOES put weight into the stirrups. A few hours of that kills my knees. So I'm trying to learn a truer western approach, with a light foot in the stirrup.

If you feel the need to stretch to keep the stirrup, it is too long. If not...then I wouldn't worry. For example, a rubber sole on the boot can make it much grippier. I once tried leather sole boots with English stirrups that had no pad, just metal...slick as snot on a doorknob! Lots of things factor into how easy it is to keep a stirrup. If in doubt, though, if it isn't bothering you, then it isn't bothering you. It probably won't bother the horse, either.


----------



## elle1959

bsms said:


> Is it wrong for them to trot?


My understanding is that, if the trot is their preferred gait, and if you want them to gait more smoothly instead, then you have to encourage them out of the trot under saddle before it becomes an ingrained habit and harder to break. She trots at liberty, which means that's what she prefers to do. So, it's not wrong that they trot, but if I want her to be the Ferrari I know she can be, I have to encourage her to to her ambling gait under saddle.


----------



## elle1959

walkinthewalk said:


> I thought you had two trainers and one is gaited horse savvy, the other one is not.
> 
> <snip for brevity>
> 
> If you are using the same type of bit, there might be enough difference in thickness that it bothers her if she has a low pallet or a thicker than normal tongue


Ah, okay. I understand the confusion. There are two people I work with. Both of them can train horses. One is training Diva and the other is just giving me riding lessons. The one giving me lessons is not working with me and Diva; I ride her lesson horse. We're learning basic things and, so far there is no conflict. I'm not sure how this will continue to work as I get farther along with Diva, but we'll see. 

So, no, yesterday's riding was not with the one who doesn't know gaited horses. So far the only riding on Diva has been with her "trainer," not the "instructor." Those are the terms I've been using to differentiate them.

As for the bit, I'm going to go back through my correspondence and see if I can find where I was told what bit she was in when I rode her at first.


----------



## knightrider

I have a very dear friend who is an accomplished rider. The first time she got on my daughter's Paso to try him out (Tico--the one I call The World's Greatest Pony), she got a big grin on her face and said, "It's like driving a Ferrari--total power under total control!"

I had to smile when I read your description of driving a Ferrari. You are the third person I know to come up with that description independently. People often do compare Pasos to that because they have so much energy, but they are so sensitive. I know Diva is not a Paso, but I got a kick out of your comparison.


----------



## bsms

Mia was like driving a Ferrari - one without steering and brakes, though. :think:


----------



## elle1959

I tried the stirrups up one hole today. It seemed fine, so we'll leave them there for now. 

We had a pretty good session. Short and sweet. Mostly I walked her under saddle while working on communicating with her using leg aids. I asked her to speed up a few times and worked to see if I could get her into a nice fast walk. Just a nice, easy day with the horse. 

She had a few carrots and we didn't work for very long. I just wanted to get out there and work with her a little bit.


----------



## Acadianartist

I just wanted to say that I've really enjoyed reading your journal. We have a few things in common - I'm an academic working at a university. I do have a fair bit of control over what I do and how and when I do it though, which is why I'll probably never leave. Also, I am passionate about my research and my job allows me to pursue that. And then of course there's the salary and the generous benefits. However, I do think academia has forgotten its core mission to educate and promote research in favor of a lot of smoke and mirrors by less-than-brilliant "managers" who are part of a corporate culture taking over. Also, I have a real pain in the horse's *** of a boss. Luckily, I can mostly avoid her and do my own thing. But I totally hear your frustration.

I'm also mature (45) and am getting into horses - not for the first time ever, since I grew up with horses, but for the first time in over 20 years. And hubby also thinks I'm crazy. Not only am I getting a horse, but I am building a barn. Oh yes, I'm going ALL out. 

I should point out that my daughter (now 10) has been taking lessons for four years and that we just bought her a horse two months ago. He's boarded for now, but in the spring, our barn construction begins and mom gets a horse too! Now, I'm not totally new to horses, but I might as well be. For one, everything has changed. Horsemanship is totally different now than it was 20 years ago when all horses were shod and fed sweet feed and no one wore a helmet. I'm a well-paid professional with a Phd who cringes before coaches because I always figure I'm doing it wrong when I help my daughter tack-up, etc. That said, when I'm alone with the horse, I'm 100% comfortable. It feels totally natural for me to look after him, groom him, tack him, lead him and even ride him when I'm alone. But if the coach is watching, well, I'd rather just let my daughter do everything because she's well on her way to knowing much more than I ever did. Her coach showed me how to lunge her and I was a nervous wreck (her coach was a real brute though, regularly making little girls cry). I didn't even know I could feel that way. Horses will humble you.

I don't want to fall either. I don't want to jump (my daughter jumps) or compete, or get worked up about anything. I just want to be around horses and go on some quiet trail rides. And watch them gallop across the pasture that will be in my backyard. Obviously, this is a huge commitment. I will be responsible for these horses and it will be a 24/7 job. But I feel so ready. It is SUCH a relief from my day job to be able to come home and shovel manure (our horse is boarded at the neighbors and even though we pay full board, I often go shovel out stalls for fun - that's right, I said for fun). It took some time for my husband to realize I was totally serious. At first, he tried to dissuade me, but knowing how stubborn I am, he decided to support me instead. I am grateful. 

I'm not going to be an awesome rider at my age. Maybe my daughter will be and I can follow along on my quiet companion horse. Or maybe she'll be happy just riding along the myriad of local trails with me. Or then again, maybe she'll discover boys and it will be all over for her. Regardless of what she wants to do, I decided about two years ago that I wanted horses. I can't wait to find my own. And in the meantime, I am loving my daughter's little Arab sweetie (they are both in my avatar picture). 

Keep learning, spend lots of time with Diva just hanging out and above all, relax. You're going to be fine. If you're stressed, she will be stressed. Horses are so sensitive, they force us to come to terms with what is going on with ourselves. 

Oh yes, and the knee issues... something else we appear to have in common. I rode my daughter's horse at a posting trot for a good half hour and could barely walk for a week after. Not sure how I'm going to manage, but like hell if I'm going to let that get in the way of enjoying a horse again. 

Here's to jumping in with both feet.


----------



## tinyliny

don't be discouraged about the knee thing. it can get easier, if you do it right, and do it regularly. I started at 41, well, restarted. but, I had not had a ton of experience prior. at 57 I know all about the aches and pains. but, riding MORE, not less, helps lessen those.

hang in there, ladies!


----------



## Acadianartist

tinyliny said:


> don't be discouraged about the knee thing. it can get easier, if you do it right, and do it regularly. I started at 41, well, restarted. but, I had not had a ton of experience prior. at 57 I know all about the aches and pains. but, riding MORE, not less, helps lessen those.
> 
> hang in there, ladies!


Good to know! Also, I was very interested in the comments on this thread about allowing your foot to be in a more natural position. My knee pain seems to be coming from having my leg twisted - in other words, if I sit on the horse bareback, my toes point out a bit. The stirrup feels like it's twisting my leg so my toes point forward. Posting on a twisted leg feels just grueling! Next time I ride, I will try just letting my feet sit in a natural position. 

Sorry to highjack the thread - we now return to our regular programming.


----------



## elle1959

Acadianartist said:


> Good to know! Also, I was very interested in the comments on this thread about allowing your foot to be in a more natural position. My knee pain seems to be coming from having my leg twisted - in other words, if I sit on the horse bareback, my toes point out a bit. The stirrup feels like it's twisting my leg so my toes point forward. Posting on a twisted leg feels just grueling! Next time I ride, I will try just letting my feet sit in a natural position.
> 
> Sorry to highjack the thread - we now return to our regular programming.


No worry, and welcome to my journal! I also had excruciating knee pain after posting the trot for a little while. Not sure why that was but I tended to blame it on the knee.


----------



## Acadianartist

I meant to say, great title for the thread. I like the literary reference.  

And yes, those old knees...  I think posting is a bad idea for me. Walking and cantering it will be!


----------



## gottatrot

Acadianartist said:


> My knee pain seems to be coming from having my leg twisted - in other words, if I sit on the horse bareback, my toes point out a bit. The stirrup feels like it's twisting my leg so my toes point forward. Posting on a twisted leg feels just grueling! Next time I ride, I will try just letting my feet sit in a natural position.


Really enjoy this thread too.
Just have to say...I can't believe how many instructors tell people to twist their joints when riding. I'm a firm believer that joints should never be twisted. Riding is an athletic activity and we need to use our bodies properly. When you look down at your leg, your thigh and foot should line up, pointing in the same exact direction. This means your knee and ankle are not twisting. Depending on the horse and your own anatomy, your hips might open more or less and that means your toe might point more in or out on different horses or in different saddles.
I used to hurt a lot before I learned this, and I was encouraged to ride painfully by riding instructors.
Some bad examples:


----------



## tinyliny

it has everything to do with the balance of the saddle, too. today I finally got a ride in, after being sick for almost 3 weeks. we posted some long stretches, in western saddles, and as long as I kept the weigh flowing down the back of my leg, through my ankle and heel, it felt great! the saddle is so nicely balanced that posting in it is practically effortless. 
but, ive ridden in other saddles that make posting a chore, and they end up creating soreness in the knees.


----------



## elle1959

Ouch.

Today I guess I officially joined the club of horse people. 

Here's the scenario. I'm merrily gaiting around the round pen with Diva when my trainer comes out of her house. Diva and I stop, and we start chatting. While she's chatting, she's taking care of various chores, one of which would be turning on the hose to fill one of the troughs with water. Unbeknownst to her, someone (husband or ranch hand) had connected that water line to one of the sprinklers near the round pen. The one that Diva was staring straight at. 

Well, as might be predicted, Diva saw this sprinkler head come to life and reacted like any sane horse would-- by bolting as though her life were in danger from this new thing. Unfortunately for me, I was in complete "relax and have a conversation" mode, so, from my perspective, what happened next was sort of special. 

You know those Roadrunner cartoons where the ground falls out from under Wile E. Coyote and he's suspended in midair for about three seconds, just long enough to hold up a sign that reads, "help?" Yeah, that's about right. Diva took off like a flash of lightning and, since we were at a dead stop, the laws of physics were NOT in my favor. I barely knew was was happening and did not have time to react beyond the thought of _Oh F---, I'm going down._ I let go of the reins, relaxed my body, and down I went. 

Hard. 

On my right hip. 

Remember I said I had osteoporosis? Well, I guess it's not that bad, or I got lucky, because I was able to get up and dust myself off. I'm sure to have a nasty bruise tomorrow, and I can't really bend over very well right now, but nothing seems to be broken, which is a huge plus. 

My trainer, let's call her S, didn't even realize how this had happened, since she didn't know the sprinkler was connected and hadn't seen it go on. From her perspective, I was standing there on a calm horse one minute, and taking a tumble the next. She said Diva bolted to the side, then calmly walked around me as if to say, "Mom? What are you doing down there? I was trying hard to keep us both from being eaten!" 

S came in and said she wanted to ride her because she didn't want that to be the last thing that happens today. They rode, Diva calmed down, and S got off and handed me the reins and asked if I wanted to turn her out. 

"Hell, no." 

So, I got back on, walked her around, gaited her, moved her through the round pen, and after about ten minutes decided that was good enough. I needed to get back on, and she needed me to. 

S had gone up to groom the big arena but as I was getting ready to turn Diva out, she came back down. We chatted about what we can do to work on her apparent nervousness. There's so much to consider. She's only eight. She's in a new place. She doesn't yet know what to think about this new place and these new people and we have yet to fully establish a bond of trust. 

My goal is for her to trust me in a way that she will want to a) believe that I will not let harm come to her and b) keep me from harm. If she's going to be a reliable trail horse for me, we need to get to that point. I'm committed to her, and I'm not in a rush. 

S. is going to take her out on some trails tomorrow morning, before it rains. She wants to help her desensitize. Right now, that might be the most important thing we can do. 

As for me, I had a few leftover percocets from my pancreatitis episode so I'm indulging my butt pain with one of those this evening. It hurts when I move a certain way, and I'm sure it will be worse tomorrow before it gets better, but I'm fine. Just that much more determined to see this thing through.


----------



## egrogan

Oh, I can sympathize! My last fall off my horse had me going down just about like that, except I landed almost on my feet! I was in the ring in the winter, and a ton of snow slid off the roof while we were just standing talking to my instructor. Isabel went sideways and it truly was as if the ground just dropped out from under me. My instructor had had her back turned, and she looked back and asked how I ended up on the ground 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acadianartist

Ouch, that sounds painful! Glad you didn't do any serious damage though.

If it makes you feel better, our horse Harley spooked at silly things when we first moved him to his new stable about three weeks ago. The indoor arena is full of pigeons and they can be quite noisy. When one flew in one day, he bolted, but settled down quickly. Three weeks later, nothing bothers him anymore. Give Diva time. And be prepared for her to spook at things for a while anyway. But to be fair to both of you, it would have been really hard to see this one coming!


----------



## EponaLynn

Oh, sorry to hear about your nasty fall. At 55 I can relate to the body issues, we just don't bonce like we used to.

I get now you're a true "horsist"!


----------



## elle1959

At least the pain is dulled tonight. Tomorrow may be another story.


----------



## EponaLynn

How are you doing today? 

I don't know if you're into homeopathy, but Arnica 30c will help reduce the pain and make you heal much faster. It's amazing, I use it all the time!


----------



## elle1959

EponaLynn said:


> How are you doing today?
> 
> I don't know if you're into homeopathy, but Arnica 30c will help reduce the pain and make you heal much faster. It's amazing, I use it all the time!


Thanks. So far, just really sore on my butt and my right foot apparently took a bit of a beating, as well. There's a large bruise forming and my rear-end looks like someone injected a small melon just below the skin. All of it soft tissue damage, for which I am most grateful. I'm also grateful that the rest of me seems to be fine. 

I've never tried the Arnica. Good to know about! Right now just using NSAIDS which are keeping me comfy enough. I do have more emergency percocet, but don't like to overdo those kinds of meds. Okay for in the evening around bedtime, but not so okay when I have work to do!


----------



## bsms

FWIW, our "Steady Eddie" horse Trooper has refused to move past a sprinkler squirting water...took about a 300 yard detour! Bandit would have exploded as well. My horses are desert horses. They believe water comes out of hoses and goes into buckets. "Wild water" is to be avoided - puddle sharks, you know! And water squirting up into the air? Pure, unadulterated EVIL. Only HUMANS would come up with an idea like that!


----------



## elle1959

bsms said:


> FWIW, our "Steady Eddie" horse Trooper has refused to move past a sprinkler squirting water...took about a 300 yard detour! Bandit would have exploded as well. My horses are desert horses. They believe water comes out of hoses and goes into buckets. "Wild water" is to be avoided - puddle sharks, you know! And water squirting up into the air? Pure, unadulterated EVIL. Only HUMANS would come up with an idea like that!


Yeah, as soon as we figured out what she had actually spooked at, we realized that it probably would have spooked just about any horse. I don't hold her to blame, though she was more tense than usual yesterday for whatever reason. I can think of a few:

-It was very quiet, with a "calm before the storm" sort of feel to the day.

-There were no horses tied out near the round pen yesterday. Normally S has a few out standing around, learning patience. Yesterday there were none. 

-I did not work her at liberty or on the lunge line for as long as I normally do. She seemed okay when i finished, but maybe I haven't learned to "read" her as well as I could. Something to work on.


----------



## jenkat86

I second the arnica! You can get an arnica gel too and apply to the bruises. I always keep it stocked in my cabinet.


----------



## tinyliny

i know exactly that feeling of "now you have a horse under you . . now you don't"

I'd be just trotting along, merrily, maybe chatting with my buddy behind me, and BAM! horse has spun and I am rolling over in middair and WHAM, my back hits the ground! just enough time to think "I'm goin' down!"

falls where you land on one side, or on one hip are the worst. landing flat on your back is always preferable. I've come off 16 times, so I know.


----------



## Avna

Sorry to hear of your mishap! I can suggest, from riding a green horse to whom almost everything is a New Thing, that you do a few things to keep yourself safer.

1. practice a one-rein stop so much that you do it automatically. I can't tell you how many bolts I have stopped with my horse, just with this one thing. It is most effective before your horse gets going anywhere. 
2. keep track of what your horse is thinking and focusing on, 100% of the time you are on her.
3. If you want to chat casually with someone, and not pay attention to your horse, get off. 

Not to say that you could have forestalled what she did.

I know she is a well-trained girl, but she is a horse in a new place, and you don't have decades of instinctive reactions built into your body re:horses. 

Just some things which have helped me.


----------



## elle1959

Avna said:


> Sorry to hear of your mishap! I can suggest, from riding a green horse to whom almost everything is a New Thing, that you do a few things to keep yourself safer.
> 
> 1. practice a one-rein stop so much that you do it automatically. I can't tell you how many bolts I have stopped with my horse, just with this one thing. It is most effective before your horse gets going anywhere.
> 2. keep track of what your horse is thinking and focusing on, 100% of the time you are on her.
> 3. If you want to chat casually with someone, and not pay attention to your horse, get off.
> 
> Not to say that you could have forestalled what she did.
> 
> I know she is a well-trained girl, but she is a horse in a new place, and you don't have decades of instinctive reactions built into your body re:horses.
> 
> Just some things which have helped me.


Thank you. We are definitely working on the one-rein stop and I intend to practice it more now that this has happened. These are great suggestions that I plan to implement moving forward. Diva is well-trained, but she's not dead-broke or desensitized and she still has a lot of curiosity and gets distracted while we ride. I chalk a lot of this up to her youth but know that she'll need me to be a consistent mentor and leader in order to move her into middle-age with more confidence.


----------



## knightrider

So sorry about your fall. I know you expected one at some point, but not so soon! I hope you are feeling better.


----------



## elle1959

Decided last night that I needed to have my butt looked at (don't we all?) so I had an appointment with my doctor (I always want to say "vet') this morning, who sent me for x-rays and told me that, at a minimum, I needed a couple of weeks of bedrest, and possibly more if there is a fracture. The likelihood of a fracture is low, but present, however there's a lot of tissue damage with some apparent nerve involvement. 

So, I'm hanging out with my laptop in the bedroom with my cat and one tiny senior dog who is in the early stages of dementia. Misery loves company. 

What made me decide to go to the doctor was the pain, which seems to be worse instead of better. In particular, there is one area just to the right of my tailbone that, when touched, makes me want to jump out of my skin and cling to the ceiling by all fours, like a cartoon cat. 

Sometimes this pain is ignited by just moving a certain way, or having something brush against it. On a scale of 1-10, it goes to 11. 

I have a prescription for pain medication, which is beginning to kick in right about now, and as long as I take the maximum allowed dose, I seem to be able to push the pain back to a dull roar. Guess this is a pretty good opportunity to catch up on some reading. I'm hopeful that within a couple of weeks I'll be back to my normal insanity, but we'll know more about that once the x-ray report comes in. 

We all knew it was only a matter of time before the first injury. Wish it has been a little less severe, but it does drive home the fact that this is, in fact, a fairly dangerous hobby. 

_Fig. 1: Dementia dog, aka Paris, aka "ratdog," demonstrating the art of blending in while wearing camouflage. _


----------



## gingerscout

Sorry you fell off, it probably won't be your last time either. I know about 2 years ago when my saddle broke on my last horse, I decided I was going to try riding bareback, and I fell off three times in 10 min and landed on the same spot on my left arm each time. My wife thought I had broken my arm/ shoulder, but I could move it, it got black/ and even purple/ greenish spots all down my arm and it hurt incredibly, but I could move it fine, and use it fine, it just hurt to push on it, it healed up but was at least a month before I could push on the elbow without pain, even though the bruise was gone. Looking back I should have gone and had it checked out, yet I was stubborn and being a guy since I could use it I figured it wasn't broken


----------



## tinyliny

did they read the xray right then and there?

my brother had a fall off a bicycle and at the time had little pain. since then (two weeks+) the pain has become MORE of a problem. xrays showed nothing, so he is going for MRI soon. he is desperate for relief. 
I HATE being in constant pain. it makes mincemeat of a person.


----------



## elle1959

No, it was just the technician there, so it won't be read until next week. The pain is pretty bad but if I don't move around too much, it's okay. I probably would have not bothered going in except the one spot that was really hurting had me worried. Glad I went; I'm the type of person who would stupidly make it worse by ignoring the pain and trying to push through it.


----------



## gottatrot

Once you start healing, consider that your piriformis muscle could be involved and be sure to stretch regularly for awhile. 








What happened to me is that I got kicked by a horse in the butt, and had a hematoma, some pain, and then it got well. After that, I didn't understand it was related but I began having some low back pain. Sometimes there would be a shooting pain down my leg and my toes would go numb. I knew that was related to the sciatic nerve and supposed I had some type of low back spinal issue. 
One day I worried a bit so pushed on my spine all the way up and down like they do when checking for trauma in the ER. There was no pain in my spine. 
That's when I looked it up and discovered that after an injury, a muscle is not used enough and can shorten. As you can see from the image, a shortened piriformis muscle tightens over the sciatic nerve. 
I learned some stretches for the piriformis on the internet, and all the back pain I'd been having for a couple years disappeared within two weeks. 
After your period of healing and rest, be sure to move and stretch.


----------



## elle1959

gottatrot said:


> Once you start healing, consider that your piriformis muscle could be involved and be sure to stretch regularly for awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What happened to me is that I got kicked by a horse in the butt, and had a hematoma, some pain, and then it got well. After that, I didn't understand it was related but I began having some low back pain. Sometimes there would be a shooting pain down my leg and my toes would go numb. I knew that was related to the sciatic nerve and supposed I had some type of low back spinal issue.
> One day I worried a bit so pushed on my spine all the way up and down like they do when checking for trauma in the ER. There was no pain in my spine.
> That's when I looked it up and discovered that after an injury, a muscle is not used enough and can shorten. As you can see from the image, a shortened piriformis muscle tightens over the sciatic nerve.
> I learned some stretches for the piriformis on the internet, and all the back pain I'd been having for a couple years disappeared within two weeks.
> After your period of healing and rest, be sure to move and stretch.


Good tips! Thank you


----------



## knightrider

So sorry this has turned out to be more severe than we had hoped. I hope it is your last fall for a VERY long time.


----------



## elle1959

knightrider said:


> So sorry this has turned out to be more severe than we had hoped. I hope it is your last fall for a VERY long time.


Thank you! I'm a bit disappointed but things are what they are. A few weeks off won't be the end of the world. With any luck, that's all it will be. 

I do have to say that the pain medication is rendering me pretty much incapacitated. I tried not to take it this morning, but that's just not working out right now. Like the old joke, it's fine as long as I don't move.


----------



## Acadianartist

So sorry this ended up being so painful. But I adore your little geriatric dog! I had a little dog that lived to the ripe old age of 18. Had her when I was eight, lost her at 26. She moved in all my apartments (I had to live in ****holes to bring her, but it was worth it) and saw me go from childhood, through the rough years of adolescence, right through to adulthood when I met my husband. She was aptly named Champ and went a bit senile in her last years. We would find her staring at a corner once in a while and the vet determined she was having mini-strokes. I decided to have her put down when she got worse. The night before her appointment, we put her out to pee as always and she disappeared and never came back. It was horrible, wondering what happened to her. In my mind, she is still very much alive! 

Sorry - not horse related, but that little dog reminded me of her.


----------



## tinyliny

the thing with pain, chronic pain, is to stay ahead of it. by taking less, earlier, you will be making the most of it's ability to cut pain (not erase it), while still maintaining metal accuity. so, take half the suggested dosage, first thing with breakfast. wait 2 hours, if you aren't supported enough, take the other one. but, the point is, take it before the pain comes on.

and, work on being as relaxed as possible. mental stress magnifies pain greatly.


----------



## elle1959

Already missing this view.


----------



## elle1959

Huge relief: I am not broken  X-rays are clear with the exception of some degenerative changes consistent with my age. So, this means I am free to move about the cabin again and not worried about knocking bone fragments about. 

I have a lumbar brace that I bought a while back when I had a back injury, and have been wearing that today. It's providing some good stability in the area that is really sore, which I know now must be due to inflammation around the sciatic nerve. Now that I know nothing's broken, I can ramp up the anti-inflammatories with some reasonable assurance that this will help get this situation under control. I also need to shift strategies from bedrest to moderate exercise to get that injury healing well. 

Still looks a mess, still sore as can be, but with any luck I'll be back in the saddle in a couple of weeks, and I should be able to go out and at least visit Diva for a little while. This is pretty much the best news I could have expected and I'm so grateful it wasn't worse!


----------



## knightrider

How you continue to heal quickly.


----------



## elle1959

Thank you, Knight. I'm feeling much more positive about everything now that I have this news


----------



## elle1959

I haven't put an entry here because i haven't seen my horse since the fall, but since this is a journal I thought today I'd post some thoughts about that. 

Several people have asked me if I'm going to sell Diva or stop riding, given what happened. The answer, of course, is no. I don't believe for one minute that this particular accident proves anything that I was not already aware of. Mainly, it shows that a horse can spook at the unexpected, and that a rider can be caught completely off-guard when that happens. I don't believe, nor does my trainer, that this happened due to inexperience on the part of horse or rider. It was a freaky thing that could have happened to anyone. 

This doesn't mean that I won't ultimately decide for other reasons, or based on other experiences, that Diva is too much horse for me, but this experience doesn't tell me anything about that. 

My larger worry right now is getting back into the saddle. I still have considerable neuralgia in my right hip around the area where the sciatic nerve emerges from the hip joint. I am taking over the counter anti-inflammatories for that, but I worry about the damage that's doing to my stomach, given my history of gastritis and other stomach problems. 

Some here suggested arnica for the pain and I'll probably try that. I'll also be getting some anti-inflammatory topical cream today, and I've started taking turmeric as well. 

I need to get this pain under control, because I'll not be able to get back into the saddle until I do. It may just be a matter of more time, but I sincerely hope this won't be permanent damage to the nerve. If that turns out to be the case, it will spell the end of a very brief flirtation with riding as a hobby, and I don't want that to happen. 

So, that's the worst-case scenario right now. The best case, which I'm hoping for and expecting, is that in another week things will be sufficiently healed-up that I'm no longer having nerve pain and I can get back to working with Diva with confidence. That is the hope that's keeping my spirits up right now. 

So, no, I'm not planning any changes. I'm still committed to Diva and hoping that we'll be able to start back up together very soon.


----------



## bsms

When I hurt my back, it took a week to get back in the saddle. And that was too soon, since I nearly collapsed when I dismounted. It took about a month before I could reasonably ride again.

It also left me with a stiff lower back. The stiffness was needed to protect the injured site, but it affected my riding. The looseness and flexibility of the lower back needed for traditional western riding was gone. I ended up adopting a forward seat, since a forward seat expects a certain stiffness (firmness) to the lower back.

But hopefully your healing will be faster and more complete!


----------



## tinyliny

I still have that stiffness, bsms, but doing a good half hour of just walking the horse will warm up my back a lot. However, I ride defensively. for example, if we are approaching a corner where it's possible a jogger will run around it and horse will flinch, I tighten my core more. I try to keep it engaged ALL the time, but it's easy to forget.

oh, and if you want to help protect your stomach, take an omeprazole pill (or nexium) with the NSAID. and, with food, always.

I do hope that this resolves for you 100%, but as yoiu know, as we age, we get new aches and pains, like passengers boarding our life train, and some of the get off the train after a while, but others get so comfortable being with us that they stay for the whole ride. they become lifelong passengers, so we have to get used to them.


----------



## bsms

What I've done lately is ride Bandit in a forward seat - which I find a good "defensive position" - when we are in neighborhoods and/or the first 30 minutes of riding. Once we are in the desert and he's blown some of the boogers out of his brain, I relax and sometimes drop my stirrups a hole or two. Once my back is warmed up (about 30 minutes for me, too) and my horse is "brain-booger free" (mostly), I can afford to ride looser. Until then, I need to be ready for sudden spins or hops - and I find a forward seat gives me confidence I can ride out anything Bandit will offer me.

People can laugh at me for being defensive, but one fall could ruin the rest of my life. I'll be darned if I'm going to stop riding, but yeah...I don't plan to come off without a fight.

FWIW, my wife rode with me today, on our little mustang Cowboy. She largely stopped riding after seeing what I went thru riding Mia. She was just to too afraid of getting hurt. After we rode today, she said that she really enjoyed riding Cowboy because "_It is easy to feel confident on him. When he likes his rider, you can feel him trying to take care of things. He's not going to bolt. He isn't going to spin around in blind panic. He's alert, but...sensible..."_ - and it is all true. 

After the ride, Cowboy pushed his face against her and she played with his ears and rubbed his face. Cowboy soaked it up! And if he can get my wife interested in riding again, he'll be worth every penny I didn't spend buying the free little fellow! :thumbsup:


----------



## elle1959

bsms said:


> When I hurt my back, it took a week to get back in the saddle. And that was too soon, since I nearly collapsed when I dismounted. It took about a month before I could reasonably ride again.
> 
> It also left me with a stiff lower back. The stiffness was needed to protect the injured site, but it affected my riding. The looseness and flexibility of the lower back needed for traditional western riding was gone. I ended up adopting a forward seat, since a forward seat expects a certain stiffness (firmness) to the lower back.
> 
> But hopefully your healing will be faster and more complete!


One of the things that was found on the x-rays I had was lumbar spondylosis. This is a typical aging event that affects the lower back and causes stiffness. Mine is in the early stages but I don't expect it to do anything but get worse.

Since this pain I'm currently having is in my right hip, it will likely affect mounting and dismounting to some degree. I'm throwing everything I can at it; currently wearing an anti-inflammatory patch and my doctor is prescribing some muscle relaxers to soothe the area in case muscular tension is contributing. The patch seems to be helping quite a bit, but I just put it on about 20 minutes ago. 



tinyliny said:


> oh, and if you want to help protect your stomach, take an omeprazole pill (or nexium) with the NSAID. and, with food, always.
> 
> I do hope that this resolves for you 100%, but as you know, as we age, we get new aches and pains, like passengers boarding our life train, and some of the get off the train after a while, but others get so comfortable being with us that they stay for the whole ride. they become lifelong passengers, so we have to get used to them.


Yep, I have omeprazole here and I take it faithfully. It does help keep the stomach acid from eating away at my stomach lining! And yes, aging is not for the faint of heart!


----------



## EponaLynn

The arnica is not just specifically for pain, it's to help you heal faster, take away bruising, swelling and inflammation. It has no side effects with allopathic medicine. I'd be taking it asap....it is amazing. 

If you really want some quick relief, consult with a homeopath as there are remedies he or she can give you for the nerves etc. Honestly, I can't say enough good stuff about it.

There is a good one: Vital Force for Horse in CA who works by phone!


----------



## elle1959

EponaLynn said:


> The arnica is not just specifically for pain, it's to help you heal faster, take away bruising, swelling and inflammation. It has no side effects with allopathic medicine. I'd be taking it asap....it is amazing.
> 
> If you really want some quick relief, consult with a homeopath as there are remedies he or she can give you for the nerves etc. Honestly, I can't say enough good stuff about it.
> 
> There is a good one: Vital Force for Horse in CA who works by phone!


Thanks. I received a cream in the mail today that I had ordered a few days ago. It contains arnica and a number of other things that should be good for this. I still have the Salonpas patch on, but I applied the cream all around the patch area and when I remove the patch tonight I'll apply it there, as well. Throwing everything I can think of at this in the hope that I'll heal quickly and completely.


----------



## elle1959

bsms said:


> People can laugh at me for being defensive, but one fall could ruin the rest of my life. I'll be darned if I'm going to stop riding, but yeah...I don't plan to come off without a fight.


I completely understand. Having an osteoporosis diagnosis, I was quite sure that the first fall would break me, and I'm so glad that it didn't. I'm not quite sure I agree with the osteoporosis dx, but I still want to be as careful as I can.


----------



## Bondre

EponaLynn said:


> The arnica is not just specifically for pain, it's to help you heal faster, take away bruising, swelling and inflammation. It has no side effects with allopathic medicine. I'd be taking it asap....it is amazing.
> 
> If you really want some quick relief, consult with a homeopath as there are remedies he or she can give you for the nerves etc. Honestly, I can't say enough good stuff about it.


^^^^ :thumbsup:

Yes, I'd be getting an appointment with a homeopath too. My husband and I both use homeopathic remedies when necessary for chronic low-level pain (sciatica in his case, hip bursitis in mine) and they do really well. I realise homeopathy doesn't convince a lot of people but you've got nothing to lose by trying... 

And anything that gets you back in the saddle quick has got to be worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EponaLynn

elle1959 said:


> Thanks. I received a cream in the mail today that I had ordered a few days ago. It contains arnica and a number of other things that should be good for this. I still have the Salonpas patch on, but I applied the cream all around the patch area and when I remove the patch tonight I'll apply it there, as well. Throwing everything I can think of at this in the hope that I'll heal quickly and completely.


 I would use the pellets too, they go system wide.


----------



## tinyliny

elle1959 said:


> I completely understand. Having an osteoporosis diagnosis, I was quite sure that the first fall would break me, and I'm so glad that it didn't. I'm not quite sure I agree with the osteoporosis dx, but I still want to be as careful as I can.



on the other hand, the fact that you survived this one without a break says you are tougher than you think .

I've fallen way too many times, and never broke a bone. at 58, I try hard not to fall, but the fact that I HAVE fallen so much without breaking a bone makes me realize how tough I am, really.


----------



## elle1959

tinyliny said:


> on the other hand, the fact that you survived this one without a break says you are tougher than you think .
> 
> I've fallen way too many times, and never broke a bone. at 58, I try hard not to fall, but the fact that I HAVE fallen so much without breaking a bone makes me realize how tough I am, really.


Exactly. There's a lot of controversy around osteoporosis and the drugs they use to "treat" it with. Apparently the machines they use to scan you are all calibrated differently, depending on the manufacturer, so you could get a diagnosis using one but not using a different one. I've always been skeptical and I've avoided the treatments because those can be devastating. Figured I'd cross that bridge if I had to. 

I'd never broken a bone in my life until I (lightly) broke a finger recently (another horse accident) but supposedly it's my hips and lower back that are the most brittle. This shows me they're not nearly as brittle as I was told. I've always bounced pretty well and I'm glad to still be able.


----------



## elle1959

I'm planning to go out to see Diva today and do a little bit of groundwork with her. The swelling on my butt has gone down enough that I can see there's a rather large hematoma below the muscle (about the size of a golf ball) and that's going to take some time to heal. What that means is that there's a pocket of blood sloshing around under my muscle that my body will slowly reabsorb, with slowly being the key part. It will likely be another week to two, perhaps more, before I'm able to ride again. 

In the meantime, I figure since nothing is broken it will be good to get started with groundwork again. I have been missing her something fierce, so it will be really good to see her today!


----------



## EponaLynn

How did it go?


----------



## elle1959

EponaLynn said:


> How did it go?


It was great to see her! The trainer had already worked her some so she was tied out when I got there. I brushed her down and did her feet, then walked her up to the covered arena because there was mud everywhere else. We did about ten minutes or so of groundwork; she was great on the lunge but she really gets hot in the liberty work so I tried not to overdo it and just let her run a bit. She turned in toward me a few times when I'd pull the whip into a neutral position, so I dropped the whip and gave her praise. 

She seemed very tense today; at one point, I dropped the whip and she flinched. I'm not sure if she was just a little peeved that we were doing work again, since she'd already been worked. As I said, she was pretty hot but that's not unusual for her at liberty. She seems to have two speeds at liberty: run like crazy and REALLY run like crazy. It's very hard to get her to slow down. 

I didn't want to push it for either of us, so after about 15 minutes or so I brought her in, put her halter back on, and walked her back down to tie out. Groomed her up again, put her blanket on her, and turned her out. 

She did greatly appreciate the carrot that I gave her when we were finished. I'm not entirely convinced that the roundpen work, which seems new to her, is working for her very well. We're almost to the end of our month of training and I think that when we are through with this month I'll work to see if I can connect with her in a gentler way. My sense is that she's overly sensitive at this point and I don't really want her to work hard simply out of fear. Does that sound wrong to you?


----------



## Acadianartist

I'm sort of new to this too, but if she's a little high-strung when she does pen work/liberty work, I would keep her on the lunge line for now. Keep her calm and happy - and keep yourself safe! I'm not sure horses learn anything when they're in that flighty, excited state of mind. At least nothing good. Just my opinion. Others here have far more experience than I do.


----------



## greentree

Elle, may I suggest you cut out the major SOURCE of the inflammation? Your balance may even improve, due to the inflammation in your ears, since it is system wide. 

Just quit eating grains, and anything that contains grain, for two weeks, and see if it helps.


----------



## elle1959

Acadianartist said:


> I'm sort of new to this too, but if she's a little high-strung when she does pen work/liberty work, I would keep her on the lunge line for now. Keep her calm and happy - and keep yourself safe! I'm not sure horses learn anything when they're in that flighty, excited state of mind. At least nothing good. Just my opinion. Others here have far more experience than I do.


This is what I'm thinking, too. It seems to me that no one ever did round pen work with her before, and she's unsure how to respond to it. She's great on the lunge and yesterday I lunged her first, then did the liberty work, which is backwards from how we normally do it. When I took the halter off of her yesterday, she followed me to the fence; I was surprised to see her right behind me when I turned around after hanging the halter up. I feel like, in her mind, that's what she's comfortable with and the liberty work is confusing because she doesn't know what's expected of her. I'm sure my trainer thinks she'll come along, but I don't have endless months worth of dollars to put into retraining her and I'd rather work on getting her better at the things she does know.


----------



## elle1959

This was my view at around noon today:










Yep, I'm back in the saddle again! Things have healed well enough that I was able to ride Diva when I went to see her today. S had already worked her and she was tacked up in one of S's saddles when I got there. Turns out S has started riding her in the Circle Y saddle I was looking at-- the Park & Trail with the wide tree. I got a chance to ride in that saddle and all I can say is that, once again, Circle Y did not disappoint. I HAVE to have one, so I took a picture of the plate so I can look up the exact model and size. It was WONDERFUL and a good fit for my hard-to-fit girl. Guess the Fabtron will be up for sale here soon. 

Diva was great today. The trainer had one more horse to work, so we all rode together in the round pen. I lunged Diva for just about 5 minutes beforehand, since she'd already been worked, and didn't do liberty work with her today at all. She was perfect on the lunge and settled down to a nice walk for me. Good girl! 

:cowboy: 

Riding was so nice today; I just rode her around the round pen and worked on the one-rein stop, leg aids, backing, and getting her into gait. She's gaiting much better now. I don't know if it's the saddle or just that she's being worked and getting used to her new shoe configuration, or what, but it was nice to feel her smooth gait again. 

She just had a couple of "moments." One was when I was trying to get her moving and she seemed to spook in place-- just a flinch-- and I couldn't figure out what she saw or heard. I just let her have her moment, then gave her a quick squeeze and she moved out again. I'm proud of her for not doing more than that. 

The other moment was when the trainer was finished with her horse and stopped him to untack. Diva got a little buddy sour for him and also figured it must be the end of her riding time too, so she came to a dead stop next to him and didn't want to move out again for me. I insisted, and took her around the pen a couple of times just to let her know that quitting for the day would be on my terms, not hers. 

I usually hand feed her a carrot after we work. S told me that she had gotten a little nippy looking for a carrot after her training sessions, so we agreed that I'd use a bucket to give her treats from now on. After we groomed her, medicated her feet and put her blanket on, I led her to the bucket with the carrot. 

She was NOT pleased that I didn't also feed her a carrot when I turned her out, as I usually do. Poor little girl stood there at the gate expectantly. I usually take a carrot out when I catch her to help her understand that being caught means good things happen, but I can't put one in a bucket in the pasture with the other horses there, so I guess I'll have to come up with another plan. Maybe next time I catch her I'll put a carrot in the bucket outside the gate for her.

In all, it was a pretty good day. She seemed more relaxed and I felt pretty good with her. She's not a push-button horse, by any stretch, but I feel like we have lots of room to work and learn together as a team, and I feel like I'm starting to get bonded with her. S said to me today that I'd wanted a sensitive horse, and I got one. She's right. That's what I wanted; a horse that would respond to cues and be aware of things, not a deadhead. We have so much potential together. I'm in love. 

:loveshower:


----------



## EponaLynn

That sounds excellent Elle! So happy you're back in the saddle, even if it is a new one and means you'll have to sell your other one :runninghorse2:


----------



## elle1959

EponaLynn said:


> That sounds excellent Elle! So happy you're back in the saddle, even if it is a new one and means you'll have to sell your other one :runninghorse2:


Thanks! I did a little investigating and it looks like they aren't making this design anymore. It's a flex2 tree, though, so I think just about any of their saddles in the same width with that tree would probably work. Since I don't know if it's wide or extra wide, I sent Circle Y an email with the plate number and asked if they could tell me. That will help me figure out exactly what she needs.


----------



## Acadianartist

Yay! So glad to hear this! Great job with Diva. You didn't let her get away with anything, but remained calm. I can't think of a better way to handle those issues. 

We are going saddle shopping this weekend so I envy you having access to a well-fitted comfortable saddle! It is so hard to find the right fit for horse and rider.


----------



## elle1959

I'm trying to find this saddle used online, and it's not easy. I discovered that the tree on the one she has is actually a regular tree, not wide as I would have thought. I guess the flex2 tree makes it an easier fit with the regular bars. 

There is a new one available on Horse.com and with a 25% off special they are running I can get it for $1368. That might be the best I can do. 

I don't think my husband will be pleased when I tell him I'm buying another saddle, though!


----------



## elle1959

Well, fiddlesticks. I just tried to buy that saddle but they won't apply the 25% special offer to the particular item. So I'll hold out for a used one.


----------



## knightrider

So pleased to learn about your great ride with Diva. I hope you find that saddle.


----------



## elle1959

Diva is finished with her month of half-training, and she's done very well. I had a lesson with her yesterday and was pleased to find that her understanding of the basic exercises our trainer has been using is much improved. I think I now have a strong foundation for working with her. 

A while back, I purchased a book on the advice of Knightrider here. It's called Easy-Gaited Horses, and it's written by someone who specializes in training-- you guessed it-- gaited horses. The author is Lee Ziegler. 

There are very few gaited trainers in this area that I've been able to find, and I realize that if I want to learn how to ride her correctly, I am going to be a bit on my own. While I may find a clinic here and there, it's not realistic to think I'm going to find a gaited trainer who is consistently convenient for us. So, I'm reading through this book during the holidays with the plan to make it my groundwork and riding-finesse bible once she comes to the new barn. 

There are two issues of concern for me right now. 1) She is still testing, and I haven't had enough time with her to firmly establish the relationship and what is expected of her. 2) She's still a bit "looky" and will still skip a bit at unexpected encounters. 

The first thing I believe I can resolve once I get her down here through conistent work on ground manners. Hers are not great. I plan to start at the beginning here, with standing tied and leading in hand, and work as patiently as necessary in order to establish that she does not crowd my space or move in front of me. 

She's been taught, of course, but she's young and spunky and our relationship dynamic needs to be firmly established. I'll have much more time to work on this when I have her here. 

The second problem is more worrisome for me at the moment. I see both of these issues as most likely stemming from her relative youth and perhaps a lack of consistent good handling before she came to me. I plan to address the second issue with a calming supplement and, again, consistent groundwork. 

I spoke with the trainer about the supplement and she did not seem to think it was a good idea. I disagree, so I'll start giving it once she is with me. I really want to know if it actually makes a difference and there's no way to know unless i try it. 

So, move her, start refreshing her training with the basics to establish control and trust, and ride her consistently, using the methods in Lee Ziegler's book. This is the plan for her. The plan for me is to continue lessons with my riding instructor on her lesson horse so that I can take what I learn back to the barn and practice with Diva. And if she proves to be too much horse for me? Sell her to someone with more experience. 

She will continue to board at the trainer's place until such time as I can get her moved back here, but I don't plan to continue her training there, as it's expensive and she's just too far away. Hopefully I can get her moved soon.


----------



## Acadianartist

This may already have been discussed elle, but what is Diva eating? Does she get any grain at all? She probably doesn't need any, or a very low-sugar one in small quantities. Harley was on a special low-sugar pellet to help make him more sane that I can't get locally so I'm trying him on California Trace. But if that doesn't work, I will order the feed he used to be on. Otherwise - and this is nothing you don't already know - the only way to make them calmer and more relaxed is through a regular routine. I think Harley does best if he was ridden daily, or at least 4-5 times a week. But even so, if you throw anything new in the mix, he can get jumpy (ie, trail riding).


----------



## elle1959

Acadianartist said:


> This may already have been discussed elle, but what is Diva eating? Does she get any grain at all? She probably doesn't need any, or a very low-sugar one in small quantities. Harley was on a special low-sugar pellet to help make him more sane that I can't get locally so I'm trying him on California Trace. But if that doesn't work, I will order the feed he used to be on. Otherwise - and this is nothing you don't already know - the only way to make them calmer and more relaxed is through a regular routine. I think Harley does best if he was ridden daily, or at least 4-5 times a week. But even so, if you throw anything new in the mix, he can get jumpy (ie, trail riding).


I don't think she's getting anything too exotic at the trainer's place, but the trainer doesn't special-feed anything unless a horse is sick, which is one reason I want to get her down here ASAP. I want to know that I can control her diet better. 

The new barn will have their own hay, but I can buy hay for her if what they feed isn't working. I will also be able to provide a supplement on a daily basis for her when she's here.


----------



## Acadianartist

I am in a similar situation - the BOs provide hay and pellets. I've decided to provide my own pellets along with flax and a glucosamine supplement. To make it easy for the BOs, I've portioned them out into baggies - enough for a week at a time. That way they don't have to measure three things at feeding time. Often, BOs find it easier to feed all the horses the same thing, but it might not be suitable for every horse.


----------



## elle1959

Spent about three hours with Diva yesterday, grooming, tacking her up, then doing a lesson with the trainer and one of my friends. 

For some reason I had a lot of trouble with her groundwork yesterday. I admit to not feeling very energetic, and of course the trainer was all over me about how everything I am doing is wrong, wrong, wrong. She's probably right on much of it, but sometimes she misses what I'm doing and tells me I did something I didn't do so I just have to stop, do it again, and then she says "that's it." Sometimes it's me. Some days are just better than others for me. It's quite discouraging at times. 

Riding was a bit better, but not much. I got about halfway through the lesson and wanted to be anywhere but there. It had me questioning the wisdom of my decision to persue this so vigorously, but of course by the time it was all over, I was feeling better again. 

Diva was much better yesterday in certain ways. She was very compliant on the ground, and not very pushy. I was able to better anticipate the places where she was likely to give me trouble in leading and get her compliant before those situations arose. So I do feel as though I'm making progress in our relationship. She was pretty good under saddle for me, but did get distracted by seeing some wild turkeys that were hanging around. No spooking from them, though, and I tried to keep her attention on the tasks at hand. 

Today I'm supposed to call to find out whether there's an opening at the new barn. Yesterday's lesson has me questioning whether or not I need to keep her at the trainer's for another month so that I can take some additional private instruction before she's moved. I don't want to miss the opportunity to get her closer, though, so not sure what I'll do if the spot is open.


----------



## Acadianartist

Don't be too hard on yourself, we all have off days. So do horses, I'm finding. I don't know what it's like to work with a trainer, because anything I do with Harley involves just the two of us. In some ways, that's very hard, but I imagine that maybe it's better in other ways. Last night, for example, I did a bit of groundwork before riding him. He used to ground-tie well, but we hadn't worked on it in a while so I thought it would reinforce respect. It went awful. My goal was to be able to walk all the way around him, but every time I stepped sideways, he followed. I kept putting him back, he kept moving. Because it's just the two of us (plus my daughter who was just watching at this point), I didn't have to meet my goal though, and decided to just aim for walking away from him, but directly in front, which he seemed to have no problem with. We did that several times and he stayed put as I took 2-3 steps back. I ended there. Small steps. Maybe this trainer needs to cut you some slack and work up to goals more slowly. I'm glad you won't be continuing with her - it sounds like she does better with horses than humans. Good luck, and don't become discouraged. We all have moments when we have to reconsider and we wonder what the hell we were thinking. But no one ever achieved anything without taking some risks. It's supposed to be hard sometimes. When it becomes hard/frustrating more often than it is fun/exhilarating/rewarding, then it will be time to seriously reconsider.


----------



## elle1959

Well, it made me feel a bit better when the trainer took over and also had a hard time getting Diva to comply in certain areas. It isn't all me, but what *is* me is not having the energy or nerve to confront these problem moments directly by charging up to a running horse like I'm about to attack it. 

Call me crazy, but for me that's counterintuitive. Sort of like when I moved to California and discovered that pedestrians are expected to step out in front of moving cars. Where I come from, that is a good way to die. This sort of feels the same, and it makes me question whether I even have the right "stuff" for horsemanship at all.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

This is a fantastic thread...


----------



## elle1959

Rainaisabelle said:


> This is a fantastic thread...


Thanks. It's an intersting journey so far!


----------



## weeedlady

Sorry you had a not good day with Diva.
you will have those days.

I've mentioned to you before that our situations are very similar. I had a horse in my backyard as a kid-no big deal. We went everywhere I wanted (except across water) did anything I wanted. He even came in the house to watch TV in the basement rec room sometimes . I got interested in boys and sold my horse.

In April of 2014 I started taking riding lessons, mostly just so I could be around horses again. I bought my mare in September 2014. At that time, I had been riding her for 6 months, and although I realized I had lots to learn, I felt confident I had made a good decision.

THEN...I started reading EVERYTHING I could get my hands on and watching videos constantly. Trying to learn ALL the stuff I don't know, and trying to learn about gaited horses (cuz no one at my barn does gaited). I lost a lot of my confidence. I began to expect too much of my horse too soon. I began to doubt my purchase. The more demands I put on myself and on Raven the less I enjoyed my time with her.
Lately, I've taken a step back. NO, she is not perfect. No, I am not and probably never will be a great rider. Is she a good girl? Yes, usually. Have we made progress in the year+ that I've owned her? yes, for sure. Do we have better rides and enjoy each other more? most definitely.

So, the epilogue to my little book here is this...relax a bit. Enjoy your horse and take the time to get to know her. Keep working with a trainer and and taking riding lessons. We never stop learning. Some days are good, some not so much. You have a gorgeous mare. Give her time to trust you. Don't expect perfection. Don't get discouraged yet. and don't give up.
M


----------



## elle1959

weedlady said:


> Sorry you had a not good day with Diva.
> you will have those days.
> 
> I've mentioned to you before that our situations are very similar. I had a horse in my backyard as a kid-no big deal. We went everywhere I wanted (except across water) did anything I wanted. He even came in the house to watch TV in the basement rec room sometimes . I got interested in boys and sold my horse.
> 
> In April of 2014 I started taking riding lessons, mostly just so I could be around horses again. I bought my mare in September 2014. At that time, I had been riding her for 6 months, and although I realized I had lots to learn, I felt confident I had made a good decision.
> 
> THEN...I started reading EVERYTHING I could get my hands on and watching videos constantly. Trying to learn ALL the stuff I don't know, and trying to learn about gaited horses (cuz no one at my barn does gaited). I lost a lot of my confidence. I began to expect too much of my horse too soon. I began to doubt my purchase. The more demands I put on myself and on Raven the less I enjoyed my time with her.
> Lately, I've taken a step back. NO, she is not perfect. No, I am not and probably never will be a great rider. Is she a good girl? Yes, usually. Have we made progress in the year+ that I've owned her? yes, for sure. Do we have better rides and enjoy each other more? most definitely.
> 
> So, the epilogue to my little book here is this...relax a bit. Enjoy your horse and take the time to get to know her. Keep working with a trainer and and taking riding lessons. We never stop learning. Some days are good, some not so much. You have a gorgeous mare. Give her time to trust you. Don't expect perfection. Don't get discouraged yet. and don't give up.
> M


I do feel she is teaching me much that I had not anticipated. And she is not only gorgeous, but very sweet-natured. She's a good horse. I just need to make sure I don't screw her up


----------



## gunslinger

elle1959 said:


> I do feel she is teaching me much that I had not anticipated. And she is not only gorgeous, but very sweet-natured. She's a good horse. I just need to make sure I don't screw her up


Somehow I don't think you'll screw her up......I don't know how to describe how much I've learned from my horses.....that you can't force things......and patience....oh my.....

I have so much fun with my horses....and I try not to take things to seriously....less it steals my joy.....


----------



## Bondre

elle1959 said:


> Well, it made me feel a bit better when the trainer took over and also had a hard time getting Diva to comply in certain areas. It isn't all me, but what *is* me is not having the energy or nerve to confront these problem moments directly by charging up to a running horse like I'm about to attack it.
> 
> Call me crazy, but for me that's counterintuitive.


It seems as if the groundwork with this trainer is problematic, both for you and Diva. Is it really necessary for Diva since you say she is well trained under saddle? I can't help wondering if your trainer is a bit fixed on repeating groundwork ad infinitum, and is possibly even creating issues with Diva that she then needs to fix. Diva probably doesn't see the point in her running around in a round pen - and I don't either. 

Why does she say you should charge towards Diva when she is having a problem moment? I honestly can't think of any good reason for doing this. If your horse is genuinely challenging you, sure, you mustn't back down, but I doubt this is the issue with Diva. She doesn't sound as if she would challenge her handler in a round pen, more like she's confused. And if that's the case, charging at her isn't going to make her understand any better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Elle, try watching some Clinton Anderson youtube videos. There's one on spookiness.

I am not a natural horsemanship addict, but without knowing I use some of the same methods, just I've been doing them without knowing they are "his"


----------



## elle1959

Bondre said:


> Why does she say you should charge towards Diva when she is having a problem moment? I honestly can't think of any good reason for doing this. If your horse is genuinely challenging you, sure, you mustn't back down, but I doubt this is the issue with Diva. She doesn't sound as if she would challenge her handler in a round pen, more like she's confused. And if that's the case, charging at her isn't going to make her understand any better.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She thinks I am not firm enough with her. Yesterday, Diva wanted to lunge in close circles around me and the trainer wanted her to move out. I offered her more line, but the trainer thought that, in order to get her closer to the rail, I should take advantage at a particular moment and charge toward her to get her to move away from me in the direction I wanted her to go. Honestly, I had never had this problem with her before, and we were working in a different arena which was not round, and there was another horse being lunged on the other end, close enough that they could have collided. The whole set-up was kind of screwy and my energy was low and I wasn't actually in the mood to charge inanely at my horse. 

The other problem was that Diva kept coming to a certain point in the circle and turning in to me. Again, this was probably a problem with my energy as I've never had an issue lunging her before. The trainer said that I was getting in front of her at that point but Diva did the same thing in that same spot when the trainer worked her. 

I've actually worked to get her to turn in, so part of the problem-- in my mind-- is that I think she's misunderstanding my cues because my cues are not clear enough, so I cut her slack thinking that she's doing what she *thinks* I'm asking for-- in other words, she's being a good girl. But to my trainer she's not being good because she's not doing the thing that was intended by me, if that makes sense. 

It was just a bad day. I feel like I need to work more consistently with her to get good at these things. 

You're right, she is broke under saddle. She needs miles and work, and she does need to work off energy, as she's still a young horse. This is my quandary. Do I keep trying to get better with this trainer who is all over me all the time, or do I try to work with Diva on my own? 

Diva is learning respect for me, I believe. I have tools to continue to establish this and I know how to apply them. I just don't feel like I need to apply them unless Diva is acting out in a way that seems disrespectful. Yesterday she was very respectful toward me, all day long. She was caught easily, came out of the pasture willingly, led well (with minor corrections, as she still wants to crowd and move ahead but she's less pushy about it) and she genuinely seemed happy to see me and work with me. I was able to lead her in and out of the arena without any pushiness, and not once did she turn her butt in my direction. So I am not sure why I have to go through this exercise of establishing firm dominance each time I work with her. It feels more like instilling fear to me, and I don't want her to fear me. I want her to respect me. I don't find those things to be synonymous but maybe in a horse's mind, they are.


----------



## Alhefner

elle1959;8445561I've actually worked to get her to turn in said:


> It makes sense. She may be getting confused about your cues and you might need to work on them. You do want Diva to do what you intend for her to do but she won't know what that is if your cue is not clear to her.[/COLOR]
> 
> So I am not sure why I have to go through this exercise of establishing firm dominance each time I work with her. It feels more like instilling fear to me, and I don't want her to fear me. I want her to respect me. I don't find those things to be synonymous but maybe in a horse's mind, they are.
> 
> Fear and respect are not the same things even to a horse. You do need to keep giving correction whenever Diva is a bit disobedient because when you let her "get away with" a very small thing, she is likely to try that more often and then try adding in other things over time.


As for whether or not to continue with that trainer, I'm not there and I'm unable to advise...


----------



## egrogan

If it were me, I'd want to burn off that energy by riding. I can't remember if you're cleared to ride again or not, so understand that you might still have some physical limitations. Why isn't the trainer riding her and doing training under saddle?


----------



## knightrider

I also love this thread and all the good ideas coming out of it.

I am thrilled that you like the book I recommended. Since Windy is being a little less than perfect, and since she is not gaiting hardly at all, I also am re-reading the book. It was my bible when I was training Chorro, but that was 10 years ago and I have forgotten a lot of what I was doing with him. Windy never needed correction, because as soon as we asked her to do something, she did it. Now she is a teenager in horsey age and starting to push her limits and rebel a bit. Also, I need to figure out how to bring out her gait, which I know she has, because I know her sire and dam and I've ridden some of her half siblings. I worried so that Chorro wouldn't have a good gait, and by the time he was finally old enough to ride, as soon as I climbed in the saddle, he gave me the most marvelous gait . . . I had that Paso grin from ear to ear. But Windy doesn't/hasn't. So while you are reading the book for the first time, I am reading it for the second time.

Like some others have said, I think perhaps it would be good if you had more fun with Diva, just heading out the trail with friends. There's nothing like trail riding to relax a horse. Young horses look, and I wouldn't worry about her looking at things. The wonderful part is that she doesn't leap sideways in the air, spin 180 degrees and take off in a dead run. As far as I am concerned, looking and startling wouldn't worry me at all, especially on a horse that barely knows you. Give her a couple of years until she trusts you completely and I am guessing all that looking and startling will be just a memory.

I didn't like your instructor just from listening to her on the video. Something about her. She should never get all over you for anything. She should recognize that sometimes people (and horses) have off days and cut some slack, find a way to make it fun. It's GOT to be fun most of the time. It costs too much and takes up too much time not to be.


----------



## weeedlady

*Knightrider*I have the Lee Ziegler book also. I haven't read much past the first few chapters. I'm going to have to get that back out and delve into it a bit more.

*Elle* I missed the video Knightrider refers to. Where can I find it?


----------



## elle1959

egrogan said:


> If it were me, I'd want to burn off that energy by riding. I can't remember if you're cleared to ride again or not, so understand that you might still have some physical limitations. Why isn't the trainer riding her and doing training under saddle?


I'm riding again. The trainer has ridden her for the full month that I paid for her to be in half-training, but now she is just boarding at the trainer's place so the only work she's doing with her is when she and I work with her together as part of my lessons.


----------



## egrogan

elle1959 said:


> I'm riding again. The trainer has ridden her for the full month that I paid for her to be in half-training, but now she is just boarding at the trainer's place so the only work she's doing with her is when she and I work with her together as part of my lessons.


Got it, that makes sense.

I agree with Knightrider, I think some nice trail rides with friends who have reliable trail horses would be great. Keep the expectations pretty low and go out and amble around some on easy trails for a change of pace.


----------



## elle1959

weedlady said:


> *Knightrider*I have the Lee Ziegler book also. I haven't read much past the first few chapters. I'm going to have to get that back out and delve into it a bit more.
> 
> *Elle* I missed the video Knightrider refers to. Where can I find it?


I think this is the one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN-KlKrwxCY

I called the new barn yesterday and left a message, but haven't heard back from them. Given all that's been said here, I'm now leaning toward moving Diva to the new barn sooner rather than later if I can, where I'll have more room to work with her, access to good trails, and more time to work with her on my own. 

As I mentioned somewhere, I forget if it was here, I have always been someone who learns well on my own and I know for a fact that some of this is me, because I'm stubborn and sensitive and I don't take instruction well. I get discouraged if I don't pick things up quickly because I've always been a quick learner. So this is challenging to some of the worst parts of me, and I think that's a good thing, *as long as it is also good for Diva. * 

On the other hand, I do think there has to come a point at which I need to find my own way of being with her. Diva does need correction, but she is also sensitive, and I feel attuned to that. I do not have any intention to let her push me around, and when she does get pushy, I will get firm with her. Honestly, I just think we need to spend more time together, and that's very hard to do when she's almost an hour away from me.


----------



## knightrider

That's the video I was talking about. Your trainer/instructor just kind of put me off in some way I can't describe. Personally I wouldn't want to work with her. But that's just me. When you said she got all over you, that got my back up because that's not the way to help people enjoy something. In the army/life or death/police academy, sure, but not horseback riding . . . or Sunday School . . . or Scouts. . . or music lessons. When people are doing something to have fun, they'd better have fun or you are in the wrong business.


----------



## elle1959

knightrider said:


> That's the video I was talking about. Your trainer/instructor just kind of put me off in some way I can't describe. Personally I wouldn't want to work with her. But that's just me. When you said she got all over you, that got my back up because that's not the way to help people enjoy something. In the army/life or death/police academy, sure, but not horseback riding . . . or Sunday School . . . or Scouts. . . or music lessons. When people are doing something to have fun, they'd better have fun or you are in the wrong business.


It *feels* like she's getting all over me and I can't do anything right, and I'm not sure if it's a) because I'm sensitive to criticism, as I described, b) because it's true, or c) because she feels she really needs to get through to me quickly and firmly so that I don't put myself inadvertently in harm's way. 

Whatever the reason, it's always a humbling experience.


----------



## tinyliny

these forums are nice in that you get this huge, wide perspective. but, they can end up confusing a person, especially one who is new, becuase you don't know WHO to trust. right now, I would advise you to work with the person who is most available to you in real life, and who you feel has a fundamentally good approach to training your horse and you. if you try to follow all this advice, you'll end up dissatisified with all of it. 

I am not saying the comments here are wrong, only that you need to gently set aside most of them and stay the course with one trainer or one plan, for a bit.
do more, worry less, results in less "thrashing". I want to make a bumper sticker for my car that says, "No Thrashing", since this is the advice I most need to take for myself. no useless thrashing.


----------



## elle1959

tinyliny said:


> these forums are nice in that you get this huge, wide perspective. but, they can end up confusing a person, especially one who is new, becuase you don't know WHO to trust. right now, I would advise you to work with the person who is most available to you in real life, and who you feel has a fundamentally good approach to training your horse and you. if you try to follow all this advice, you'll end up dissatisified with all of it.
> 
> I am not saying the comments here are wrong, only that you need to gently set aside most of them and stay the course with one trainer or one plan, for a bit.
> do more, worry less, results in less "thrashing". I want to make a bumper sticker for my car that says, "No Thrashing", since this is the advice I most need to take for myself. no useless thrashing.


Yes, I hear this. Unfortunately, this trainer is not going to be that available to me in real life because of the distance between us. She won't be able to travel out to help me with Diva once she's been moved, so I'll either end up working with Diva on my own or getting another trainer out to work with her. 

I do have a better idea what might work for us than I did before, so that's good.


----------



## bsms

"So I am not sure why I have to go through this exercise of establishing firm dominance each time I work with her."

I don't understand it either. There are many ways of establishing dominance. When you lead them on the ground, you ARE being dominant, but in a way that is not threatening. When you clean their hooves, they are submitting to you. If you have them stand still while you groom them, you are establishing dominance.

My set-up is kind of odd. They live in a dry lot corral, but I tack them up in our arena...which sometimes has grass. So I let them eat grass while I clean hooves, then lead them back to drop off the hoof pick and pick up a brush, then let them eat, then stop them and move them back to saddle up, etc. There is nothing mean or harsh about it, but when I'm ready for them to stop eating so I can go get the saddle off the rail, they do it. Or else. If you can tell a horse "Time to stop eating. Come with me. Now let's go and you eat again." - THAT is dominance. Nothing says dominant to a horse like "You can eat. You cannot eat." But horses are very sensible, and they will figure out over time if you have a reason for something - and then they can accept it. If it makes no sense to you, it probably will never make sense to your horse - and horses resent unreasonable dominance, which when applied to humans is called "bullying".

I screwed a lot of things up with Mia, but I had good intentions and Mia judged me largely for my intentions. She did not progress nearly as far or as fast as she would have with a skilled horseman, but she probably made more progress than she would have with some experienced riders. And in any case, what she taught me was crucial to my love of horses. I got hooked because she was a challenging horse - and a fair, kind-hearted one.

But in my limited experience, horses are extremely sensitive and sensible. People don't understand them, and then blame the horse for being stupid, or spooky, or naughty, etc. They are not. They can be taught bad habits by someone who is inconsistent or unfair, and those bad habits can take a long time to retrain. But ultimately, my horses are pictures of my soul. They pick up on things I don't realize, and respond in a way that reflects back my imperfections - and qualities. Over time, I think a horse comes to understand you in a way no psychologist ever could. They are more perceptive of people than people are.

Two rules Tom Roberts recommends for training a horse are:

"_This will profit you. This will profit you not_." & "_Quiet Persistence_". Over time, I've come to realize horses train me the exact same way - with "This will profit you. This will profit you not." & "Quiet Persistence". If a person sincerely wants what is best for the horse, and tries to understand the horse, I think they are rewarded with understanding AND are trained to ride horses by horses. "This will profit you not" is something Mia told me many times, although I didn't always understand very quickly. But Mia also practiced "Quiet Persistence". Bandit does as well.

It is OK when you make mistakes in training, if you want what is right for your horse. The horse will quietly persist, showing you what works and what does not work, until you learn how to work with horses. The only requirement is that you be willing to learn, and I'm certain you are. And in training Diva, you will discover a great deal about yourself!

This is an expensive book for a slender volume. It does not give a training program, but it has the best advice on training a horse that I've seen. That said...the first time I read it, it made no sense to me. It took me a while to realize what he was saying.

http://www.amazon.com/Horse-control...=8-2&keywords=horse+control+-+the+young+horse


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Not to be a nag, but have you watched that video yet? It's called desensitizing with plastic bags, then there's another like dealing with spookiness.

DUHorseman is the channel


----------



## Acadianartist

elle1959 said:


> I think this is the one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN-KlKrwxCY
> I have always been someone who learns well on my own and I know for a fact that some of this is me, because I'm stubborn and sensitive and I don't take instruction well. I get discouraged if I don't pick things up quickly because I've always been a quick learner. So this is challenging to some of the worst parts of me, and I think that's a good thing, *as long as it is also good for Diva. *
> 
> On the other hand, I do think there has to come a point at which I need to find my own way of being with her. Diva does need correction, but she is also sensitive, and I feel attuned to that. I do not have any intention to let her push me around, and when she does get pushy, I will get firm with her. Honestly, I just think we need to spend more time together, and that's very hard to do when she's almost an hour away from me.


Yup. You know by now that I am pretty much in the same position you're in. A-type personality who is used to knowing what to do, but am throwing myself into horse ownership and am pretty much a newbie in that area. I take control in almost every human interaction. I tell myself it's by necessity, but then again, I am probably not giving anyone else a chance. And then there's me with horses. I feel clueless. I mean, not totally, because one-on-one, I actually feel ok, like I'm connecting. But throw a trainer/coach in the mix, and I feel like a bumbling fool. Oddly, I told my farrier this. She is an ex-military, trained in barefoot trimming and natural horsemanship and actually stopped mid-trim, looked at me and said, "What do you do? I like to be able to talk to people on their level". I told her I'm a university professor, but feel like a total idiot when it comes to horsemanship. She smiled, with her crew-cut hair and looked right at me and said, "yeah, I'll bet that takes getting used to". But then she gave me a lot of information about health and food and... well, I think she got that I'm trying. 

elle, I don't know you, but I think you like a challenge. I'm not sure why I keep re-inventing challenges for myself, but each time, I feel I'm getting closer to my true self. Maybe it's because I had horses growing up, or maybe it's because they make you deal with yourself. 

I'm going to screw things up. But Harley is an amazing horse. Sounds like Diva has a lot to offer as well. I do think taking time to just connect with them - no trainer in sight - is a good thing. We are getting to know each other. From the trainer, take some, leave some. In the end, you are Diva's owner and best friend for the next few years so make the most of it.


----------



## elle1959

Skyseternalangel said:


> Not to be a nag, but have you watched that video yet? It's called desensitizing with plastic bags, then there's another like dealing with spookiness.
> 
> DUHorseman is the channel


Not yet, but I'll take a look at it. This is the kind of thing I'm hoping to do with her once I get her to the new barn. Honestly, I haven't got the heart to start working "outside the box" that the trainer has us in while she's there, because I just feel that anything I do that she hasn't told me to do will be wrong. So I'm waiting to try a lot of these things until I fully have her in a place were I control the horizontal and vertical (old people will get that reference). 

Case example: There is a knot that my instructor (NOT the trainer) taught me early on that's used for tying out. It's similar, but not as complicated, as the knot that the trainer has shown me. Both knots are secure. I always revert to using the first knot because it's easier. I've told the trainer that this is the knot I was taught first and she always tries to show me the other way. FINALLY just this week she said, "you know, there's no reason you can't use that knot. It'll work fine." Well, yeah, it does, but she'll forget next time that she ever said that and will try to correct it again. So maybe I'm crazy but I feel like I'll be nagged to death over not holding the sticks and ropes exactly a certain way, etc, if I try to desensitize her on my own and the trainer happens to spot what I'm doing.


----------



## Alhefner

the only time I ever correct someone, or offer a different way, on "how" they do something is if my way of doing it is easier or safer or their way simply will not work at all. Otherwise, if it gets the job done then it's just fine!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

elle1959 said:


> Not yet, but I'll take a look at it. This is the kind of thing I'm hoping to do with her once I get her to the new barn. Honestly, I haven't got the heart to start working "outside the box" that the trainer has us in while she's there, because I just feel that anything I do that she hasn't told me to do will be wrong. So I'm waiting to try a lot of these things until I fully have her in a place were I control the horizontal and vertical (old people will get that reference).
> 
> Case example: There is a knot that my instructor (NOT the trainer) taught me early on that's used for tying out. It's similar, but not as complicated, as the knot that the trainer has shown me. Both knots are secure. I always revert to using the first knot because it's easier. I've told the trainer that this is the knot I was taught first and she always tries to show me the other way. FINALLY just this week she said, "you know, there's no reason you can't use that knot. It'll work fine." Well, yeah, it does, but she'll forget next time that she ever said that and will try to correct it again. So maybe I'm crazy but I feel like I'll be nagged to death over not holding the sticks and ropes exactly a certain way, etc, if I try to desensitize her on my own and the trainer happens to spot what I'm doing.


I totally understand that, they're hounding you.... that's definitely not what you need. I hope you hear back from the other barn soon


----------



## elle1959

Here is a picture of the two of us from the other day. 










Sometimes I forget that this is a journal thread and not a constant plea for advice. Please don't feel you need to critique this photo. It's just here because it makes me happy.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Aww you two look so cute!! And she looks dashing in that green saddle pad!


----------



## elle1959

Thanks! I'm borrowing that one from the trainer. Her new-to-me saddle still hasn't come but it should be shipping with an impact gel pad, though what size that will be I don't know. I really want red on her as it's my favorite color so if the new pad doesn't work, I'll go buy one in the color I want.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Ooh she'd look lovely in red! I love how my horse looks in it, makes him pop!


----------



## evilamc

Aw shes so cute! I got my first gaited horse last year too  So fun.

If you're going to do long trail rides, be careful with the impact gel saddle pads...they can freeze in colder temps or get super hot in hotter/longer rides  But for arena work I think they're great.


----------



## knightrider

She's SO beautiful! And you look terrific on her!


----------



## elle1959

Thanks, Knight  

I have another semi-private lesson scheduled tomorrow, but my heart is just not in it. I can't cancel because my friend is counting on seeing me and she's still enjoying the lessons quite a bit. She's on a push-button lesson horse and isn't feeling the pain I'm feeling. 

I haven't heard back from the new barn, so I don't know what's going on there. This being the first of the month, if there's a stall available I would only have a partial month there. I don't anticipate that anyone will be around to call me back now until Monday, since they only have office hours three days a week. The barn manager should be there daily, but I don't know that she picks up messages from the office phone. I did leave another message for her today. 

Between Diva being so far away, the bitter cold, and my not really enjoying the work with the trainer, I'm feeling less inclined to go and spend time with her lately. I know she needs to be worked but I truly just want to get her closer to me. I may have to come up with a plan B if there's no room at the new barn this month.


----------



## Lisabaltic

What a wonderful story! My self I'm getting back into riding from a 10 year break after a bad fall. My riding also couldn't come at a better time. i'm dealing with some stressful situations in my life.
When I first rode from age 10 to 15 it was such a good outlet for me, was dealing with my parents divorce, best friend running away and living on the streets and my brother's friend suicide. Animals are so therapeutic for us.


----------



## elle1959

Indeed, they are!


----------



## weeedlady

elle1959 said:


> I really want red on her as it's my favorite color so if the new pad doesn't work, I'll go buy one in the color I want.


Red will look good, as would any other color. Raven has 3 halters in 3 different colors so far, with matching leads. I'm still looking for the perfect saddle pad. I like the one I have, but it's just wool, not pretty at all, lol.
And then you will need the matching bridle (or two) and maybe leg wraps...and a breast collar, and ...and ... and... oh it is so much fun!
M


----------



## elle1959

I'm so excited! Got a call from the new barn today and they have a stall for us! I'm rushing around now to try to get transport for her ASAP and will need to buy some stall mats for her paddock. 

I contacted the trainer to let her know we'll be moving her, so will be settling up with her shortly and then it's on to part 2 of our great adventure. 

:loveshower::loveshower::loveshower:

Oh, I didn't do my lesson today because I've been a bit under the weather. Having some carpal-tunnel type things going on with my wrists and have been in a lot of pain today. Going to see the doctor ASAP. Makes it hard to work a horse. Hope it's nothing major.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Make sure your diet isn't lacking in magensium! Muscular cramps come about with a deficiency


----------



## Acadianartist

That's great news elle! You will love having Diva closer! I certainly love having Harley right next door so I can pop in whenever I want. It makes a huge difference in the amount of time I spend with him. Keep us posted on the move! Will he be in a herd? How many others are there? 

Hope your wrists feel better soon.


----------



## elle1959

Thanks to both of you. I am so looking forward to being able to see her often. It will be a big change from where she was, but I have a feeling she is used to being stalled because whenever she has the opportunity to put her head in a window-like frame, she does it. If you look at my avatar, that's exactly what she's doing there. I believe she was stalled in the past. 

Here are some pictures of the new place: Photos for Sacramento Horsemen's Association | Yelp

I could not be more excited!


----------



## gunslinger

elle1959 said:


> I'm so excited! Got a call from the new barn today and they have a stall for us! I'm rushing around now to try to get transport for her ASAP and will need to buy some stall mats for her paddock.
> 
> I contacted the trainer to let her know we'll be moving her, so will be settling up with her shortly and then it's on to part 2 of our great adventure.
> 
> :loveshower::loveshower::loveshower:
> 
> Oh, I didn't do my lesson today because I've been a bit under the weather. Having some carpal-tunnel type things going on with my wrists and have been in a lot of pain today. Going to see the doctor ASAP. Makes it hard to work a horse. Hope it's nothing major.


GF is having some pain in her right elbow......says it's an 8 in the mornings....which sounds pretty bad to me.......DW and I have been trying to get her to try a cortisone shot but so far she's reluctant to try it......I'm not sure why....

Wow, a new barn. Tell me more! The pictures of the place are very nice.....Will she be stalled most of the time?


----------



## egrogan

New place looks nice, especially those shaded trails. Congrats!


----------



## elle1959

gunslinger said:


> GF is having some pain in her right elbow......says it's an 8 in the mornings....which sounds pretty bad to me.......DW and I have been trying to get her to try a cortisone shot but so far she's reluctant to try it......I'm not sure why....
> 
> Wow, a new barn. Tell me more! The pictures of the place are very nice.....Will she be stalled most of the time?


She'll be stalled, but each stall has an outdoor paddock attached where she can hang around outdoors and visit with the other horses on that side of the barn. The facility includes 4 turn-outs a week and will turn her out more for a fee upon request, however I will be able to get there enough to turn her out myself if she needs more. 

Right now I'm looking around for reasonably-priced stall mats that I can buy locally to place in her paddock area. The barn manager said I will need 8 of them. Tractor Supply has something for $40.00 per mat but the reviews on them are very mixed-- sounds like they have deteriorated in quality in recent months, so I'm reluctant to go out there and buy them. 

She's been in pasture up to her ankles in mud for a month, anyway, but it would be nice to keep her paddock dry. I am not sure I'll be able to accommodate this before she's moved in, though. 

I have two offers to move her and am just waiting to hear what the second person will charge. First person wants $150.00 to do it tomorrow. Not sure I want to spend $150.00 to move her 36 miles.


----------



## Alhefner

elle1959 said:


> I have two offers to move her and am just waiting to hear what the second person will charge. First person wants $150.00 to do it tomorrow. Not sure I want to spend $150.00 to move her 36 miles.


One horse...36 miles...half a day maximum time... $150... I'm in the wrong business...:sad:


----------



## elle1959

The second person only wanted $75.00 but I told her I'd give her $100.00 since I had advertised the job for that on Facebook. I figure she has to take several hours out of her day, plus gas money. It's probably worth at least that, but I thought $150 would be a bit too much.


----------



## Bondre

So you have transport. A stall waiting for her. When's the move??!

So glad you're bringing her closer to home. Will you be able to have lessons on Diva at the new place?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gunslinger

I have tractor supply mats in all three of my stalls. I can't say I've had quality issues, but I have two stalls that have the grooved mats and one that has slick or non grooved mats.

I much prefer the slick ones as they clean up much easier.

One thing though, the mats are very heavy, around 100 pounds each. They're also bulky... Plan accordingly. You can hurt yourself trying to move them alone. If you can, get some help on this. I'd get everything ready before you place them so you only have to move them once.


----------



## jenkat86

Yes, and a few pairs of vice grips work great for helping grip the mats to move.


----------



## elle1959

I'm moving her this afternoon. It's drizzling rain (it figures) but it's only going to get worse through the rest of this week. 

I will be able to take lessons at the new barn. They will allow my instructor to come in (if I can convince instructor to make the trip) or I can choose a new riding instructor. There is at least one that comes there but I'm not sure about the discipline. 

Wow, I didn't realize those mats are so heavy. I will certainly need some help with them and since my husband is away this week, it looks like that will be put off for a time. Even if my wrists were not sore, there is no way I could handle that weight on my own.


----------



## gunslinger

Lol...I didn't realize they were so heavy either! I found out the hard way....


----------



## elle1959

This was not a fun day. It rained the whole time we were out with her. Just cold drizzle, not real rain. 

However, she's in her new home now. Doesn't she look confused? My grooming kit arrived this afternoon so she will get all cleaned up tomorrow! Once again you have to click the photo to see it rightside up.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

Such a cute (sideways) picture of her!


----------



## Alhefner

She doesn't look too confused but she does look highly "interested"...


----------



## elle1959

She was very interested in that chestnut horse beside her. Not sure if it's a gelding or a mare but they seemed to be hitting it off. (S)He was nipping at her butt when I left, rascal.


----------



## weeedlady

She's so pretty. I'm glad you got her moved closer to you. Your new barn looks like a nice place. Love the pictures of the trails.
M


----------



## EponaLynn

elle1959 said:


> Here are some pictures of the new place: Photos for Sacramento Horsemen's Association | Yelp
> 
> I could not be more excited!


It looks amazing!


----------



## elle1959

We had a lot of rain today, but it stopped for a bit at about 10:30 so I went out the new barn to check in on Diva. My grooming kit came in, so I brushed her down well and took care of her feet. Her feet reek of thrush again, and I forgot to take the container of No Thrush that I'd given to the trainer at the last place. So I ordered some more of that through Amazon Prime and it should be here on Thursday. I think she can probably wait that long. 

The rope halter I bought for her a while back is knotted a bit too big for her. I have another halter also on order with a longer rope attached for lunging, but I'll tie a better knot in it when I go out tomorrow (if there's a lull in the rain again). 

The new place is really nice. There is a nice creek just behind the barn that's got a good deal of water flow right now. I took her for a little walk around the property and gave her a chance to do a little grazing. 










She has not had access to fresh grass in quite a while, as the pasture at the old place was just mud. She really enjoyed the grass but I didn't allow her to eat too much, as I understand early grass is rather rich for them. 

She seems to be getting on fine with her neighbor horse, who is a gelding named Jack. During our walk about the premises, she was very curious about everything and I just let her take it all in. We walked over to the creek and I let her look at the rushing water. Then we did just a tiny amount of work on backing up-- she was fine, but I just wanted to make sure we did something to establish early on that I'm still the leader in the new digs. 

Her mane and tail are quite tangled and I am having a hard time getting a brush through them, so any suggestions you all might have about something to put on them would be appreciated. 

Got home to discover that the new saddle was delivered, so I took that back over to the barn and stuck it in the tack room. I need a saddle stand. 

I'm supposed to have a riding lesson with my instructor tomorrow, but I'm not sure about the weather. We're supposed to have rain all week, but today was showers here and there with several hours of no rain in-between. So, we'll see. I'm just very happy to have Diva so close.


----------



## elle1959

By the way, this ^^^^ is the laziest journal update ever, since it's exactly the same thing that I posted in another thread here. 

I can add a few things just for the journal. 

I've got two new bits on order for her. One should be here tomorrow, and the other one will be here in a couple of weeks. Both of them are French link style bits as I've wanted to try that style on her since she mouths the traditional snaffle non-stop. It may not make any difference but I am starting to suspect this horse had OCD and the lack of symmetry would drive anyone with OCD mad. 

Went I went back in to put the saddle away, I stopped by her stall and visited with her through the gate. She is so sweet. I wish the weather would clear up a bit so I could take her into the arena or pen and do a little work with her. She needs the exercise and I need the practice. 

It's exciting to think that she's only a few minutes away.


----------



## gunslinger

elle1959 said:


> Her mane and tail are quite tangled and I am having a hard time getting a brush through them, so any suggestions you all might have about something to put on them would be appreciated.
> 
> I'm just very happy to have Diva so close.


You might give cowboy magic a try......it's a good detangler IMO.

I'm happy for you....


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I've heard coconut oil is good, cowboy magic gel (I am not a fan), anything natural not with silicone.


----------



## egrogan

For a quick fix, you can buy kids detangler at the grocery store/pharmacy.

I personally like this product: MOISTURE MANIAC Mane & Tail Detangling Infusion [] - $22.95 : EcoLicious Equestrian, Natural Horse Grooming Products

It's expensive but lasts forever (and smells great while you have the horse tied nicely for grooming, disappearing quickly when they get back to being a horse )


----------



## Zexious

I'm a fan of good ol' elbow grease when it comes to manes and tails. Shampoo/condition then work through with either a comb or your fingers. To keep it nice and untangled, braid it.

She's adorable, by the way! Looking forward to following your progress <3<3


----------



## elle1959

Thanks, everyone. I am learning so much from her. 

Today I went over briefly. I had left her blanket off because it wasn't supposed to get too cold last night, but I wanted to put it back on her because it is going to be a bit colder tonight. It was rainy and overcast, so I figured it would just be a quick tie out, install blanket, put her back in the stall and go. 

I pulled her out of the stall and, as I was blanketing her, the sun came out, so I decided to take her for a little walk around the property again. 

We walked out past the "mare motel" section where the rich grass is, and I let her graze. We worked on some simple conditioning commands. I would walk her, then tell her "whoa" and then as she was putting her head down to graze, I'd say "graze." Then when she'd had a bit of grass, I'd pull her up while saying "up" and we'd walk and repeat the process. 

We walked around the property for about five minutes. I've not been feeling well, so I didn't really want to hang around for too long but did want to take advantage of the sunshine. 

As we were headed back toward the barn, we walked past a tractor and she got all wonky and spooky, moving in toward me. I just held her lead, pushed her away from me then stood there straight, until she quieted down. All the while I'm thinking "this is a 1000 lb animal who could bolt straight out of here if she just wanted to." 

But she didn't bolt, of course, and I circled her around to what seemed like a safer place for her and we walked past the scary tractor and back to the barn. That seemed like enough excitement for one day.


----------



## Acadianartist

It's lovely having your horse close enough to visit all you want isn't it? Glad you got Diva closer to you. And it sounds like you were a calm presence for her when she saw that tractor. It also amazes me that Harley listens to me sometimes... I mean, he doesn't have to, he could easily knock me over. That's where trust comes into play I guess.


----------



## elle1959

I know! They could just run off and do whatever they want, but they don't. Thank goodness for that. 

Here's another lazy update that I posted in another thread here: 

Today my week-long cold took the upper hand again and I was only able to make it out to the barn for another short walk with Diva. We repeated some of the things we did yesterday, and I backed her up a bit. Then... the turkeys came. 

She wanted to shy away from a flock of wild turkeys that came up from behind the barn, but I decided we'd just keep on walking as we were. I got her straightened out and we walked in one direction as they walked toward the barn door to our right. We did a little more work and then it was time to go back to her stall, so I just marched her up and through the turkeys pretending I didn't know she'd been wary of them. 

She did great. The only place she hesitated was at a little ravine that's developed in front of the barn door from the rain. To her, apparently, it looks like a vast chasm. She hesitated there coming out, and hesitated again, though less, going back in. Brave girl just stopped briefly and then hopped over it. Good girl!


----------



## Skyseternalangel

elle1959 said:


> She did great. The only place she hesitated was at a little ravine that's developed in front of the barn door from the rain. To her, apparently, it looks like a vast chasm. She hesitated there coming out, and hesitated again, though less, going back in. Brave girl just stopped briefly and then hopped over it. Good girl!


I'm so glad she's getting better!

Re this part though, if you have time if she ever hesistates like that again, keep working on passing it like it's nothing and in time she'll see it as nothing.

Letting her hop over it and continuing on has taught her that the 'vast chasm' should be dealt with by hopping over it instead of calmly walking past it.

Just a little side note :wink:


----------



## elle1959

Skyseternalangel said:


> I'm so glad she's getting better!
> 
> Re this part though, if you have time if she ever hesistates like that again, keep working on passing it like it's nothing and in time she'll see it as nothing.
> 
> Letting her hop over it and continuing on has taught her that the 'vast chasm' should be dealt with by hopping over it instead of calmly walking past it.
> 
> Just a little side note :wink:


She can't walk past it because it runs across the whole entrance to the barn, so she had to go over it one way or another. She's improving, though I'd rather see her step over it nonchalantly.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

elle1959 said:


> She can't walk past it because it runs across the whole entrance to the barn, so she had to go over it one way or another. She's improving, though I'd rather see her step over it nonchalantly.


I meant past it as in through it, like when you don't take notice and just kind of stroll on by.


----------



## elle1959

Okay, I understand. Well, we are making progress, just a little at a time. Thanks for your advice


----------



## Folly

Well, I love this journal. Last night (Friday) Husband had on a movie that I found very unappealing lol... so I sat there and read through the entire thing! Elle, I've been meaning to drop by ever since you've posted on some of my threads.

Your journey mirrors mine in many ways. At the age of 52, I bought my first horse last February. 

I also am self employed - have been so for about 7 years, and just in the past year have really separated from a rather toxic client situation. I'm working from home now, and loving it. It's feast or famine, and sometimes I'm overwhelmed and sometimes I have more "business development" time.

I, too, have been diagnosed with osteoporosis - ugh, that was a punch. I did do the fosamax, boniva etc thing for 3 years, but after reading about the negatives - plus the fact that it isn't advised for more than 3 to 5 years use - plus the fact that it made me feel truly lousy a good percentage of the time, I decided enough was enough. Trying to just be really good about taking calcium and vit. D and more excercise. We'll see, but it was becoming a quality of life issue. I was diagnosed with it about the same time I started riding with my friend, so it added to my insecurity on a horse. Anyway, it was scary reading about your unintended dismount - but in some really strange way, it has to be a little bit of a confidence builder for you. I do NOT want to hit the ground ever. But some corner of my mind knows that if I had been unseated once and survived without significant damage, it would be almost liberating. Don't get me wrong, I know it could have gone South quickly.

My friend and I searched high and low for months, and thought my horse was perfect. She almost was but not quite. I also went with a gaited mare my first time around because I'm so paranoid about my osteo and trotting etc. She was a pretty little Missouri Fox Trotter - naturally gaited and never hard-trotted even in the pasture. I was intimidated frankly by her forwardness, but she was almost bombproof... and the gait is AMAZING up and down hills - she never lurched to get up or down, she simply dropped it into four wheel drive and smoothly went along! My problem was that she had picked up a set of evasions from being used at a youth summer camp - and since I'm a green rider, she would take advantage and pull them out one by one when I least expected it. I got tired of the arguments but would stick it out... until she found the one that totally unnerved me.... she would 'pop up' in the front in a balk. Just a few inches, but that was enough. So I sold her right before Christmas to a more experienced rider who loves her - so all is well there. I miss her though! She was gentle, and we were starting to connect. I think I could probably have worked through it with arena work, but my goal is to get more quickly back on the trail.

Anyway, I'm back in the hunt! I'm probably going with a quarter horse this time (I've been riding my friend's neighbor's QH mare and we get along great - and her trot is reasonably smooth, though we spend much more time at a walk. The best part is she will discuss things with me, but it never feels like an argument. So, since she's not for sale, at least I now have a benchmark to go from... I can compare other horses to her and her training and behavior.

Anyway, sorry sooooo long, but just wanted to jump in and tell you how much I enjoyed reading about your journey! I bet you become a wonderful team with your horse. She sounds terrific, and is lovely. I wish I'd found the right one the first time around, but honestly I learned SO MUCH from owning her this past year that I can't regret it at all. 

What a grand mid-life adventure, eh??


----------



## elle1959

Folly, I haven't been to this thread for a while so I'm very glad to come by today and see a kindred spirit here  I may end up selling Diva as well, she probably needs a more experienced rider, too, but I'm going to give my best efforts over the next few months to establish our relationship through groundwork and saddle work at the walk, and we'll see how that works out. I'm giving it a couple of months, although January looks like it will be wet for most of the month. 

Anyway, I came here to post two updates. One I'm just pasting here as it got sort of buried in the over 50's thread, and the second I'll write now. Here's the first, from Monday, January 11:

***********

It managed to not rain at all yesterday, which was appreciated. I went out to see Diva around noon, and was able to lunge her in the parking lot. She was really, really hot and uncooperative. 

This is the story of my life as a new horse owner: 

- I begin to work with my horse, who is hot and stubborn. I struggle with getting her into compliance. She doesn't want to back up, doesn't want to yield to my increasingly strong demands. 

- Someone far more experienced comes by and tells me I need help. I accept the help and stand back to watch. 

- Experienced person has exactly the same problems with her that I have had. 

So, yesterday was more of the same, this time with the barn manager deciding to help me out with her. She declared my rope halter "useless" and got one of her own, and Diva proceeded to ignore her requests for compliance anyway until she got tough with her. She did, eventually, settle down, but not without a fight. I was grateful for the help, as I'm not sure I had the stamina yesterday to fight with her long enough to get her into compliance. I'm still sick, but worlds better than I was last week. I took over after a while and kept her going. 

Considering she hasn't been worked at all like this for at least a week, and she's in season, I'm not surprised she was such a pill. I'm planning to go back out there and work her again today, while we still have some dry weather. Rain is expected later today so I don't want to miss my window of opportunity. I'd love to put a saddle on her but we're lunging in the parking lot because none of the main riding areas are dry yet. Maybe next week.

**********************

Today: 

I went to the barn again today to see Diva. Haven't been feeling well this week again, so it was three days before I was able to see her. 

I brought her out of the stable, brushed the shavings out of her fur, and took her for a little walk. She's a bit better on the lead but still has a tendency to want to get out in front of me, which I won't allow. 

Then I took her out to the parking lot for a lunge. She's so funny; she'll go around for a little bit; this time she would go well in either direction, for about five minutes. Then she got quite hot and started fighting me on the lunge line. I stopped her, forced her to back way up, started again, same thing. At one point she was bucking on the line and she managed to get her rear turned toward me, which scared the crap out of me, though I've never seen her kick out at anything or anyone, but I moved away from there very quickly. 

Anyway, I couldn't let her win, so I made her STOP, backed her up again with quite a lot of force, and set her off to lunge again. When she settled into nice circles, we stopped. 

I'm really very concerned about not having access to the round pens, as they are still very wet. What I think she needs is 1) exercise to run off some steam on her own and 2) liberty work in a confined space where I can clearly show her who the boss is. Right now, lunging in an open space while she's quite hot and not being worked much, my overriding concern is that she'll get away from me. That would be both an embarrassment and a disaster. 

I'm going to keep trying, though. It can't rain forever, though the long range forecast suggests pretty steady rain throughout this month. As I said above, I'm going to give her a couple of months to see if we can work this out. She may be more suited to a more advanced person and I may end up searching for a different horse. Either way, I've already learned so much from her and she's been worth having in my life. 

In other news, the mats are down in her paddock and her feet are much more dry now. I checked them for thrush today and they all looked and smelled pretty good, but I put a bit more medicine on the one that was still smelly on Monday.


----------



## waresbear

Darn rain anyways!


----------



## elle1959

Diva got a trim today. The farrier pulled her front shoes- she was already barefoot on the backs- and agreed with me that she would probably do well barefoot. 

She stood very well. I am so proud of this sweet, sweet little mare.


----------



## elle1959

Well. My heart is rather heavy tonight. I've been agonizing over whether or not Diva is the right horse for me. In so many ways, she is perfect, but in the ways that count, for me, at my level of ability as a rider, I don't think she is. And the problem isn't Diva, necessarily, it's me and my inability to be the rider who can give her what she needs at this point in her life and training. 

It goes back, sort of, to the fall I had few weeks back. That fall didn't scare me, but it did drive home two things: The ground is hard, and my butt is brittle. Any horse would have spooked at what she spooked at, so I don't hold her to blame. 

However, in the intervening weeks I am noticing that she's consistently looky and spooky. If she were a rock-solid, been-there and done that horse, that little fall would be a non-issue. But with a spooky, youngish horse? My confidence is shaken. 

What Diva needs is miles, and she needs a rider that can ride through those miles with her, sitting those spooks and reassuring her that it's all going to be okay. I am not that rider, not yet. 

It digs me to the core to say this because I deeply love this sweet, sweet mare, but I know that the odds are good that she will hurt me and it will be nobody's fault but my own, if I keep her. She doesn't need much, but she deserves so much more than I can give her at this stage of her life. In another year or two, with someone who will ride her well, there's a very good chance that she will be a dream horse in every way. I'm just not that person and I have to admit it. 

So... 

I had a long text conversation with her seller today. She had another horse on consignment that sounded like what I should have waited for all along, so I asked her if she'd be willing to take Diva back on consignment if I came out to look at this gelding. Turns out the gelding has someone looking at him tomorrow morning who's bringing a trailer, so he's not going to be available for me, most likely. However, she is willing to take her on consignment again and help me find a more been there-done that horse who's better suited to my skill level. I absolutely hate that I'm doing this, but I've given it a lot of thought and I know it's what's right for both of us. It just breaks my heart.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

That is really sad but atleast you made this decision based on benefit in yourself and the horse. It's better now then later down the road when things have gone past the no return point.


----------



## elle1959

Rainaisabelle said:


> That is really sad but atleast you made this decision based on benefit in yourself and the horse. It's better now then later down the road when things have gone past the no return point.


I think so, too, but this morning I am waffling on this again. I'm going to keep working with her in the meantime and, if the seller manages to come up with the perfect horse for me, I'll decide then what to do. Diva needs miles, she needs work. She's incredibly sweet, and very smart, and a little bit stubborn. She has a big piece of my heart and it's very hard to let go of that. She's not perfect, but nothing ever is.


----------



## weeedlady

You know in your heart what is right for you. Don't feel bad-life is too short. Your horse should make you happy, not nervous.
M


----------



## Acadianartist

I feel for you! Reading many of your posts, it occurred to me that maybe this is not the horse for you, but I didn't want to give unsolicited advice. 

This may just be a case where you need to let your mind take over your heart. The reasons you give for finding another horse are good. You are not doing yourself any favours by keeping her and you are not doing her a favour either. Let's face it, you are getting into horses later in life and have health issues that need to be taken into consideration. Of course no horse is perfect, but some will provide you with years of calm enjoyment while others will provide you with years of challenges to overcome. Are you really ready to take that on? 

I am asking those same questions about Harley, the Arab gelding we bought for my daughter last October. He is a bit forward and she is only 10. But he has a heart of gold and no malice at all. He is not particularly spooky, just a bit energetic. I'm not sure he's the right horse for her, but she doesn't want to give him up. So I ride him too and am thinking he could become my horse. Yet he is a lot of horse for me too. We adore him, but have to consider all the options. The plan was to get another horse next summer so my daughter and I can ride trails together so we will look for the calmest horse out there. One that thinks walking fast is enough exercise.  But if Harley can't become a good trail horse, I'm uncertain about his future. It hurts to even think of that, but we have to be realistic. The horses will move on and love someone else. It's us humans that have a hard time with it.


----------



## Rainaisabelle

I think you're doing the right thing. I see plenty of people with horses that don't suit them but people don't want to be the one to give up. I can understand that but sometimes you can't fix the issues that you are presented with.


----------



## Folly

elle1959 said:


> Well. My heart is rather heavy tonight. I've been agonizing over whether or not Diva is the right horse for me. In so many ways, she is perfect, but in the ways that count, for me, at my level of ability as a rider, I don't think she is. And the problem isn't Diva, necessarily, it's me and my inability to be the rider who can give her what she needs at this point in her life and training. ....


Oh Elle, I do know exactly what you are feeling - as I made the exact same decision on my first horse, and consigned then sold her last December. It was very hard, and like your Diva she wasn't 'bad'... just not right for me. I honestly felt that if I had a year or 2 more experience we could have made it work. But I don't, so we didn't. Yes, heavy heart. I must tell you, though, that when she sold it was a bit of a load lifted (though I admit I shed a couple of hidden tears). I choose to look at everything as experience and life lessons - and I learned a great deal from her and am far more prepared for my next horse (and she went to a great home, so no worries there). I'm on the hunt (as you know!) - and can't wait to find my new horse. I'm kind of lost without one now that I've experienced it. 

I'm willing to cut myself some slack... I hope you can do so for yourself as well! - let's enjoy this adventure, even if it isn't exactly as we envisioned it.

All the best -

** OK - I read the rest of the posts after writing this and see that you aren't sure of the next steps - so best of luck on whatever your decision is. And whatever it is, don't be too hard on yourself. this should be enjoyed - that's what I keep reminding myself


----------



## elle1959

It's been almost a week since I posted here but I've been updating the folks on the over 50's thread. The upshot is that I have solidified my decision to sell Diva. My trainer got wind of this and emailed me to say that a couple she recently sold a TWH to is looking for another gaited mare and that she'd like to offer to show them Diva, asking $1000 more than I paid for her. They are interested in seeing her, so that will likely happen in the next couple of weeks. 

The rain has abated for the moment, so I have been looking at horses, too. I don't want to lose the stall at the riding club, so if it stands empty they will give me $100 per month off since there's no feed involved. Hopefully I can locate a reasonable horse and not spend too much time looking. 

It should be easier, as I'm not looking for gaited this time. I crossed lots of prospects off my list last time due to my interest in a gaited horse, but at this point that's not as important as sane and gentle.

So far, I've looked at two horses. The one I saw yesterday was pretty cool, but a little too forward for me. An old barrel horse who, at 18, still has a lot of pep in his step. I loved his go, but need to work a bit more on my braking skills before I can comfortably ride out on a horse like that. 

Today my instructor took me to see a mare that she really liked at a barn where she teaches. She was certain this mare would be perfect for me, but the whole thing was a disaster, as the mare bucked under saddle at the lunge and then reared while being ridden. My instructor fell, but wasn't hurt. She was quite shocked, as she has ridden this mare dozens of times and apparently she never acts like this. However, I was glad that it happened today, and not sometime after I bought her and brought her back to my barn. 

So, that's out. I think I'm going to go and look at this horse tomorrow: Trail Horse DELUXE!!!

Of course, if Diva doesn't get sold and I find the right horse, things could get complicated but I'll work something out.


----------



## elle1959

Diva went to a great, new home yesterday. We had been starting to work out some of our differences through groundwork, and she was getting braver, but it wasn't enough to bring my confidence in her back to where it should have been for me to enjoy her as a riding horse as I should. 

So, I'm sad, but back to the horse-shopping life. Torn between just buying an ancient, been there, done that kind of gelding for maybe $1000 or spending lavishly on a horse that will offer everything Diva had along with more experience on trails and in the arenas and less spook. 

I'm hoping to see this horse soon. More money than I want to spend, but the price may be somewhat negotiable. 

The Equinery

I am a bit sad that I don't have an excuse to go and hang out at the barn right now. The weather's been nice, and I've been enjoying working with Diva over these past few weeks. Hopefully my stall won't be empty for too long.


----------



## Acadianartist

Hugs elle... I know how hard it must have been for you, but you made the right decision. Riding should be enjoyable. Wishing you the best of luck finding your next equine partner! I'm going to start looking for horse number two in the spring and I'm asking myself the same questions you are...ţhough right now, I'm leaning towards the older dead-broke trail nag...


----------



## elle1959

It's been almost two weeks since my last entry here. I've been shopping around, and eventually identified two mares that seemed promising. Looked at both of them and arranged to have them both trailered out to my barn where I could take them out on the trail there to prove their value. 

After riding the first one, a grade Appaloosa mare, I decided to cancel the trial on the other mare and pursue the Appy further. She is simply too good to pass up. 

This is Nikki. She's 16 years old, about 14.1hh. Her history is cows, then part of a dude trail string, then a lesson horse for a year. She's very well trained, knows a lot, and will be able to school me very well in the arena. She'a also absolutely awesome on the trail. 

During her trial at my barn, we took her through water, over a bridge, past various bits of flotsam including plastic bags and homeless people's tents, a golf course with golf carts, and she was perfect. She looked over at the golf carts and she hesitated a beat at the bridge and the water but moved forward with just a little leg from me. 

She has a pre-purchase exam scheduled on Wednesday of next week. I intend to show up prepared to pay and haul her. I hope she does well at the exam; she seems to be in good shape. 

Wish us luck.


----------



## Rain Shadow

Is it just the angle or do her hocks look a little swollen?


----------



## Rainaisabelle

They do a bit .. But it could be angle


----------



## elle1959

Rainaisabelle said:


> They do a bit .. But it could be angle


I don't think so. I had a very experienced horsewoman with me that day and, if anything had been off, I believe she would have noticed. We'll see if anything comes up during the PPE though.


----------



## gunslinger

She's a beautiful animal......and sounds like just what you're looking for. I hope things work out the way you want them to.


----------



## Skyseternalangel

I hope this is the one


----------



## elle1959

Skyseternalangel said:


> I hope this is the one


I hope so, too. I do miss Diva. Was at the barn waiting for this one to show up for the trial, and kept walking past that empty stall, half expecting to see her goofy little head in there. I'm so glad she is with a good family and I know I can count on them to take good care of her. She was a sweet little thing, and now I know she will get exactly what she needs to move forward in her career as a saddle horse. That makes me happy, though I will always miss her. <sigh> She was my first horse. 

Nikki, though, is the horse I should have had all along. I'm super excited to be bringing her home this week. 

I had a lesson yesterday and my instructor remarked that she was surprised and pleased at how much better my seat was from the week before. I was able to very easily do things that had been much harder for me, due to a better leg position. 

I told her that I'd had an hour-and-a-half trail ride on the new horse and had been thinking about my leg position the whole time, trying to apply the tips she had given me. Yep, having Nikki is going to make me a better rider in a much shorter time. I'm really happy that I found her. I only hope she does well at the PPE.


----------



## Acadianartist

If you don't buy her, can I have her? 

Seriously, what a great little horse! I happen to like them smaller - less intimidating, easier to handle, easier to feed and not as far to fall! I love a small horse with a big heart. 

Keeping my fingers crossed that this is the one for you!


----------



## elle1959

She's pretty sweet, I think. I hope it all works out.


----------



## ManicMini

Fingers crossed Nikki works out!


----------



## elle1959

Well, it's been a long slog to get to this point. I started posting updates in a separate thread, just because I didn't want to scatter things all over the forum for those who were interested. You can see that whole thread here, if you want: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/update-horse-search-687850/

The upshot is that, after several false starts and a trip across the continent, I have finally put a deposit on a leopard appaloosa gelding that I'm probably going to call PJ. You can see some pictures of him in the thread I just pasted here. 

It's been an intersting few months. At first, I was hell-bent on getting a horse that would do everything I wanted or thought I needed. I wanted a seasoned practice horse that was great on the trail. But-- here's the strange part-- through all this looking, I've realized that's not entirely what I want or really need. 

I went to Florida and spent most of a week riding a Tennessee Walker named Gracie. Gracie was a pretty good horse, but she had some problems that I wasn't sure I wanted to deal with, and she would have been expensive to get back home. She taught me something, though. At the beginning of that week, I didn't know her at all. She didn't know me, and we didn't know what to expect from each other. 

By the end of that week, I felt like we had connected and were working as a team. I was really sad to say goodbye to her, and maybe I shouldn't have, but she was pushy on the ground and I just sold a pushy mare. So I let her go.

When I got back, though, I found that my focus had changed. Instead of a highly finished, older, pushbutton horse, I ended up putting a deposit on a calm, rescued 10-year-old gelding who needs some training. He was cheap, compared to some of the others I looked at; only half the price of most of them, but I have a feeling he needs me as much as I need him, so the money I wanted to spend on a finished horse will now go toward getting some additional training on him, and we'll learn together. He won't be my perfect practice horse or my perfect trail horse, yet, but he will be my companion in this journey. I think I'm learning a lot from horses.


----------



## egrogan

I've really enjoyed following your journey, so thanks for sharing it with us! 

My first horse was not at all what I had in my mind as the ideal first purchase, but after having her for 4 years now, I can't imagine if I had let her go to someone else. 

Can't wait to see how the next chapter unfolds with PJ!


----------



## elle1959

I had a really good lesson yesterday with my instructor and her lesson horse. A couple of weeks ago I was in Florida for a week of trail riding with forum member @knightrider, and this was my first lesson since then. 

It is amazing how much more strength, stability and flexibility I have in my core and seat after a week of riding out on the trails for 2-3 hours a day! At my previous lesson I had to work very hard to get the lesson horse into a lope. As I've mentioned before, I have a twisty hip and it sometimes confuses the horses I ride. However, I seem to have strengthened and stabilized everything there, because when I asked him for the canter yesterday, he just took off into it seamlessly, and stayed with it beautifully! 

I have a bad habit of leaning backwards a bit when I ride, but even that has gotten better. Not perfect, but much better than it was. 

Here's a little video of us yesterday.






:runninghorse2:


----------



## Reiningcatsanddogs

You are good and loose! Have you tried bringing your elbows a bit more forward? It might make you bring the body forward along with them.


----------



## elle1959

Thanks! So much to think about. I'll try to work on that during my next lesson.


----------



## ChasenT

Such a fun thread to read, thank you so much!


----------



## elle1959

I'm back. I've been posting about my horse search in a thread entitled (quite creatively) Update on horse search, and I'm pleased to say that I bought a new horse after a three week trial at my barn. His name is Charlie and he's eleven years old. He's branded, so has ranch work in his background, but was sold to become a little girl's arena/lesson horse and then sold to the woman I bought him from. She used him exclusively on trails for three years, so he's been there and done quite a lot. 

When I started riding Charlie three weeks ago, it became very apparent that no one had really asked him to do any work for a long time. He was quite sour: Gate sour, barn sour, buddy sour, and missing his old home, of course. He was the horse that they'd stick the kids on that had never ridden because he doesn't spook at anything and he's reliable as a trail string horse. He'll just stick his head down and go. 

So, I stuck him in the arena, and his first response was, "Nope. Not doing this. Going to this gate now." 

I'll admit that I had a bit of disappointment, and even anger, over this. Being inexperienced, I really thought this was a huge problem, but my instructor and everyone at my barn kept telling me that it wasn't, so I gave him a chance. I'm really glad I did. 

Today we're into his fourth week here. I bought him yesterday, so he's staying. His willingness has improved remarkably, and he's remembering all those things he was once trained to do. I think he's actually starting to enjoy it. I had a lesson on him today, my fourth in as many weeks. He was almost perfect. He brings to the table all of the training I wanted my horse to have, along with an utter lack of spookishness. There was a flock of wild turkeys resting in the grass by the arena today and we walked up that side of the rail. The turkeys all got up to move, and Charlie did not so much as blink. My instructor was so impressed and told me that every one of her horses would have had some reaction to that. 

I haven't had Charlie out on the trail yet because of his sourness. I tried to get him out there a couple of weeks ago and he tried hard to take me into the barn instead, so I'm giving him a few weeks of steady work before I try that again, but we're almost ready. I think at my next lesson I'm going to ask my trainer to work with us outside of the arena, just to get him used to the idea that he can be out there and continue to do what I ask. Once we do that and I'm confident in his willingness to go wherever I point him, we'll be ready to hit the trail.


----------



## waresbear

Charlie sounds awesome, he is the kind of horse I like, he knows it all but ain't giving you nothing for free, you have to earn it.


----------



## elle1959

waresbear said:


> Charlie sounds awesome, he is the kind of horse I like, he knows it all but ain't giving you nothing for free, you have to earn it.


Yes, I think it's making me a much better rider.


----------



## elle1959

I had a great day with Charlie yesterday! Dropped by the barn after I finished my work for the day. One of my barn friends asked me if I'd like to go out on the trail with her and I said, "Sure, if he'll go." So I worked him in the round pen, saddled him up, took him out to the arena for a bit, walked him around, and then we headed out for the trail. 

He did NOT head for the barn, but went willingly to the trail head. He was a little nervous on the trail at first, but settled in quickly and we had a great ride. He went across a bridge, up and down a ravine that did not have water in it (usually does in the springtime) and past some flotsam and so with nary a look. Parts of the trail are very close to a busy road, and the traffic didn't seem to bother him any. We were out for about an hour, and he was just the best! 

When we got back to the barn, I tried to head him up toward the arena because I'd left his lead rope there. Well, of course, nothing goes perfectly so he decided that was a good opportunity to test me again because he didn't want to go in there and work. I was going to try to get him to go in, but decided after fighting with him for a bit that if I could just get him to go up to the rail it would be good enough. So we fought for that, I won eventually, and I dismounted him as soon as I got him to the rail, walked him over to the lead rope, wrapped it around my arm, mounted him up again and rode him back to the barn, where I dismounted again. 

I'm trying to disarm him by giving him release in unexpected ways and as a reward for doing what I ask. I have to say, he's learning well and doing well. Another month with him and I think he'll be done with this testing stuff.


----------



## Reiningcatsanddogs

Excellent! You went little by little and didn't pick a bigger fight than there needed to be. You set him up to succeed. Good job!


----------



## Prairie

Good job! You handled that bulking perfectly and that was a win-win for both of you since he now knows that going to towards the arena does not always mean work.


----------



## LoriF

Happy for you that you finally found the one.  Charlie is a really nice horse.


----------



## Kyleen Drake

elle1959 said:


> ^
> 
> The Diva has landed - YouTube


She's breathtaking! Absolutely stunning!


----------



## elle1959

Kyleen Drake said:


> She's breathtaking! Absolutely stunning!


Yes, she was my first horse and an absolute beauty, just a little too spooky for me, unfortunately. She has a great home now with someone who knows how to ride her spooks, and she's doing great


----------



## Kyleen Drake

Good to hear. A lot of what you have to say is a good lesson for new people here who are thinking of doing what you are doing. I'm still reading your back-posts! >.<


----------



## elle1959

Kyleen Drake said:


> Good to hear. A lot of what you have to say is a good lesson for new people here who are thinking of doing what you are doing. I'm still reading your back-posts! >.<


I learned so much from the experience of owning Diva, even if I only had her for a few months. She was very sweet but always in my pocket and pushy on the ground. It made me appreciate how important having a horse with good ground manners is, and how important it is to make sure they stay that way. I turned down another really good horse due to ground manners combined with a lack of training. She was a really good mare, would have turned into a fine babysitter if I had bought her since after only a week she was already taking good care of me. But she didn't know any leg cues or anything other than moving down a trail. Charlie, who I just bought, has a lot of training but he hasn't been asked to use it for a while, so he's stubborn, but he's coming around.


----------



## knightrider

So happy for you! I've been gone for awhile and thought often about how you were doing. Great news to come back to! Charlie seems like a grand horse and I'm thrilled that you are doing so well with him.


----------



## elle1959

knightrider said:


> So happy for you! I've been gone for awhile and thought often about how you were doing. Great news to come back to! Charlie seems like a grand horse and I'm thrilled that you are doing so well with him.


I just love him to bits  When the love is there, as you say, everything else falls in line.


----------



## elle1959

The big Western States Horse Expo is this weekend and, as luck would have it, it is held within a ten minute drive from my home. I went there today with my husband and a friend of his, and we listened to a talk by Warwick Schiller and then watched one of the exhibitions. I bought a fly mask with nose and ear covers for Charlie, and a new hat for myself. 

I did not get to do all the shopping I would have liked to do because I didn't want to bore the guys, so tomorrow I will go back solo and see if I can find a few things I'd like to have. 

Afterwards, I went to the barn to put Charlie's new fly mask on him. There was nobody there. I brought him out to the small arena and turned him out there, which was great. He rolled and wandered around a bit. I got his new mask on and gave him some treats, then I put him in the round pen and worked him a bit. 

I am noticing that I can get him into a canter easily when he's heading counter-clockwise, but the clockwise direction is a problem. No matter how hard I push him from that direction, he does not want to canter. I can get all up on his butt and smack him with the whip, and he will just barely do it, and won't sustain it. 

Now, when he goes that way, the whip is in my left hand, which is my weaker side. I don't know if he's picking up on my left side weakness, or what it is. I don't perceive that my trainer has any problems getting him to go that way, but I'm going to be more cognizant of it. At one point I put the whip in my right hand and shifted my angle to get more strength coming after him, but that did not seem to help. 

Anyway, because I was trying to get that canter out of him, I worked up quite a sweat myself, and it was hot and beginning to get humid. I'm still coughing and feeling a bit under the weather from this lingering virus I had, so I decided not to tack him up and ride him afterwards. I just put him back in his stall and headed home after that. 

Looking forward to heading back out to the Horse Expo tomorrow to see what kind of fun bling I can pick up. I know I need a better lunge whip and I hope I can find one there. I just bought a new headstall, so I don't need anything like that, but I'm sure there are some other things I'll find that I can't live without.


----------



## elle1959

Changing the focus of this journal just a bit, to take it back to the beginning of this journey and add a footnote. 

As you know if you read my earliest posts here, one of the things that inspired me to change my lifestyle was an attack of pancreatitis that I had last August. Pancreatitis can be caused by heavy drinking, and yes, I was a heavy drinker. Only 5% of heavy drinkers develop pancreatitis, which leads some to speculate that there's a genetic link, but no one really knows why it happens. 

The doctors read me the riot act on my drinking, which was a response to stress at work and a general sense of hating my life, so I responded by making some dramatic life changes which included leaving the job I hated, abstaining from alcohol, and pursuing my new love of riding with more intensity, because it brings me joy. 

What I may not have mentioned in my early entries is that, somewhere along the way, I also had developed diabetes, which happens when the pancreas doesn't make enough insulin. I did all the things I was supposed to do, cut carbs, lost weight, but my blood sugar readings remained steadily high for a long time. 

However, after almost a year of no and then moderate alcohol consumption (my doctor told me I could have a small amount of alcohol after a period of abstinence) I am very happy to report that my blood sugar readings are no longer spiking insanely when I eat something carby. In other words, my pancreas is again making sufficient insulin to handle whatever I might eat. 

They have never done studies to determine whether or not the pancreas can heal itself when alcohol is stopped. However, I'm pretty sure mine has done just that. I'm pretty sure the diabetes was connected to damage done to my pancreas when I was drinking due to stress every day. And I'm very grateful for the life I have now, the opportunity to make it all different by choosing a different path. 

It is not easy, striking out on my own to start two businesses. I'm not making a ton of money, certainly haven't replaced the income from the job I hated, but I have my soul back, and I have my health back, and that is the most important thing of all. I'm no longer hollow. I am full. 

Ok, back to horsey stuff.


----------



## whisperbaby22

So glad to hear it. We spend so much time figuring out what our horses should eat, it took me a while, too, to figure out I needed to listen to my body and figure out what works for it.


----------



## LoriF

Its's always nice to see people making positive changes for themselves and realizing that life can be so much better. I'm happy for you that everything is much more enjoyable. It's always nice to have a little extra money but not at the expense of your spirit. 

Now, back to the expo. How was Warwick Schiller in person? I've always liked his videos that I've seen on Youtube. Did you find some really cool stuff to buy?


----------



## elle1959

Thanks, @LoriF. Warwick Schiller was great. Yesterday he did a session on teaching a horse to respect your personal space and was able to teach the horse not to approach him at the stop within less than an hour. He did it by making the horse work each time she would begin approaching him. He made it look so easy. 

I will admit that I lack patience sometimes. I want the horse to respect me but I forget sometimes to listen to what the horse is trying to say to me and observe as closely as I should. Watching someone like Schiller really reinforces the idea that I need to significantly improve my skills if I'm going to do this.

I got some good bling; a lovely t-shirt, a nice set of leather reins, a new lunge whip and a hat


----------



## bsms

My SIL has pancreatitis, probably as a leftover from when he became very ill in Iraq (lost 60 lbs). A flare-up puts him on bedrest. I had no idea how debilitating it can be until he collapsed one day and had the tests done to find out why.

"I am noticing that I can get him into a canter easily when he's heading counter-clockwise, but the clockwise direction is a problem."

Bandit too. I think it is very common for a horse to be a bit one-sided. Cantering straight is something horses know how to do, or cantering and turning 90 degrees. They do that on their own all the time. Cantering in a steady curve seems much tougher. Bandit only does it so-so sustained counter-clockwise, and has a lot more problem going clockwise. Since my arena is too small to work him well at a canter, and he doesn't seem to miss it on a trail...it may remain something he is not good at. I just don't have the space to work on it. I'd LOVE to have a big arena, but the best I may be able to hope for is to someday trailer him to my friend's ranch in Utah and spend some time riding him there.

I'd also love to see Warwick Schiller.


----------



## elle1959

bsms said:


> My SIL has pancreatitis, probably as a leftover from when he became very ill in Iraq (lost 60 lbs). A flare-up puts him on bedrest. I had no idea how debilitating it can be until he collapsed one day and had the tests done to find out why.


I found out the hard way that pancreatitis is very serious. about 10% of the people who end up in the ER with an attack of acute pancreatitis never make it home. An attack of pancreatitis signifies that the enzymes made by the pancreas for the purpose of digesting food have begun to leak out of the organ and the pancreas has begun to digest itself. If that situation is not halted, the result is death. I was lucky. 


bsms said:


> "I am noticing that I can get him into a canter easily when he's heading counter-clockwise, but the clockwise direction is a problem."
> 
> Bandit too. I think it is very common for a horse to be a bit one-sided. Cantering straight is something horses know how to do, or cantering and turning 90 degrees. They do that on their own all the time. Cantering in a steady curve seems much tougher. Bandit only does it so-so sustained counter-clockwise, and has a lot more problem going clockwise. Since my arena is too small to work him well at a canter, and he doesn't seem to miss it on a trail...it may remain something he is not good at. I just don't have the space to work on it. I'd LOVE to have a big arena, but the best I may be able to hope for is to someday trailer him to my friend's ranch in Utah and spend some time riding him there.
> 
> I'd also love to see Warwick Schiller.


Yeah, I'm at a loss about the canter. If I knew the reason, I'd have a better idea how to fix it. Getting after him isn't working for me, and it's frustrating because it's that thing about letting them get away with ignoring your ask. Not supposed to do that, but how do I avoid it when he simply will not do what I'm asking, no matter how LARGE and IN CHARGE I get when I ask? He's fine the other way, it doesn't seem like he's deliberately ignoring me because he does comply with my requests when he's going counter-clockwise and I don't have to get that animated with him from that side. It's frustrating. 

The obvious thing, for now, is to set us both up for success by not asking for the thing he won't do, and asking for the things that he will do. So that's the plan for the time being, but I need to find an answer to this. My instructor will be out tomorrow so I'll talk with her about it.


----------



## bsms

If he is like Bandit, it is genuinely hard for him to canter clockwise - kind of like how it is hard for me to write letters with my left hand. If you have room, you might try larger diameters. Or he may need to improve his flexibility at a slower speed, and spend time walking a ROUND circle, then trotting a ROUND circle in order to loosen up his body so he CAN comply. There could also be small differences in your body position or how you ask for the canter or ride.

Trooper, Mia and Bandit all go easier to the left. In Bandit's case, how he used his left shoulder and leg when arriving here might be a factor. He used his left front leg twisted outward at a 30+ degree angle. We didn't realize that until we pulled his shoes and rode him on pavement...and he straightened out his leg over a 6 month period. But his problem going to the right may be rooted in having learned to keep his left front leg close to his body, and he may not understand how to move his left leg out and forward on the outside of a circle.

He is physically capable of doing it because he'll sometimes get a decent canter (briefly) going clockwise. But he probably needs to learn new habit patterns, and my arena is pretty small and I don't have a lot of places outside the arena to work on it. It probably doesn't help that I have 200+ lbs of man & saddle on an 800 lb horse, and the rider is self-taught. Because of my limitations, both as a rider and in my facilities, I've backed off for now. I'm going to spend a few months working on better flexibility at a walk and trot, and see if I can find a few spots to canter him along trails. I think Bandit is WILLING to obey, but uncomfortable with HOW to obey.

But winds today are 25 gust to 45, so I doubt I'll do anything today...:icon_rolleyes:


----------



## elle1959

Yeah, maybe it's just a deficit on his part. I'll have my instructor send him around tomorrow and see what she can get out of him.


----------



## phantomhorse13

elle1959 said:


> I'm at a loss about the canter. If I knew the reason, I'd have a better idea how to fix it.


It could be that nobody has ever expected him to USE the other canter lead! Therefore, he has no idea what the heck you are asking/expecting him to do. Canter = speed, not one lead vs the other.

Both of the horses my DH had before we got together were this way. My DH is a self-taught rider and _he_ didn't know what a canter lead was before we met.. so of course he never asked for one lead vs the other while riding, just asked for the canter speed. Both horses would happily canter at just the lightest squeeze of the leg.. but only on their favored lead. Even watching them in the pasture, it was super rare to see the non-favored lead.

With much work (doing exactly what bsms suggested, asking for bend and roundness at slower speeds to the weak side to build them up), both horses will now begrudgingly canter on both leads if I _insist_.. but if I am not very clear in my set up and cue, they will use the stronger lead every time.


----------



## elle1959

Well, my instructor didn't make it out today, and I've been working and had a doctor's appointment, so I haven't seen him yet. I'm about to head out there for a few hours this afternoon. We'll see how the guy is doing


----------



## knightrider

Watching this thread and hoping that all is well.


----------



## elle1959

Hello again! I've been remiss from updating here due to many factors so I thought I'd pop in and write a bit. 

I had surgery on 6/20 to repair a deviated septum and they also did a rhinoplasty while in there. The surgery went fine; the first week was rather rough but recovery has gone smoothly. It takes a full year to heal from this but I'm doing well. 

I had someone at my barn turn out Charlie while I was laid up and I gave her permission to work him, including riding, if she felt okay with it. She had an interesting time with him. Apparently, he tried to buck when she rode him. I've never experienced this with him myself but he does get resentful of being asked to work so my only thought was that perhaps she didn't work him enough prior to attempting to ride and, since she was a new person on him, he decided to see what he could get away with. She stayed with him and rode him through it, and I don't think they were big bucks, just little crow hops. 

Once I got back into shape to get to the barn, I started coming out and turning him out. The ground in front of our barn is covered in gravel that was dumped there last winter during torrential rains. Apparently he hit that gravel wrong at some point and came up lame. This was right after a trim, so I assumed there was a problem from that, and gave him bute and rested him for several weeks. He appeared to recover but then fell lame again, so I called the vet out and we determined there was a bruise on one of his feet. 

So now he's got protective pads under his front shoes, and he's doing well. 

I haven't had a whole lot of time to work with him because I have a client who is keeping me pretty busy with work, and it's been horribly hot here, but I'm ramping up my activity with him again. We're doing well; he's still stubborn but my round pen skills have improved and I'm getting much better at keeping him moving his feet and staying in tune with him. We communicate better. 

In the saddle, this is translating to more control and less rebellion. He still tests me about turning and sometimes doesn't want to go where I point him, but I'm winning those battles now with quiet insistence and patience, and the arguing is becoming less protracted. 

This week I had a lesson on him and we decided I should ride him between the two arenas and practice getting him to enter them. He didn't balk at all going into either one the first time, which I thought was amazing. Coming back toward the barn, though, he wanted to go to the barn and not enter the small arena that is opposite. I had to argue with him, but I did win that argument and got him to enter. We did this twice and he was very good, all things considered. My trainer was pleased at how well I stayed with him. 

She's been absolutely right that I would learn a lot from this horse. Today I am quite sore from all the riding I did on Monday, but it's that good kind of sore. I hope to get back out there this afternoon to spend a little time with him again.


----------



## jaydee

This journal has been closed due to prolonged lack of participation by the author. Journals that have no active participation by the author for a period of time greater than 18 months will be considered abandoned and will be closed until the author asks for them to be reopened.


----------

