# Sudden lameness on hard ground?



## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

My gelding is barefoot and has been for several years. He's had no problems with his feet whatsoever.

I changed farriers several months ago. The very first time I rode my gelding after switching farriers, he was pretty lame on any hard ground he had to walk on. I thought maybe he was just a little sore from being trimmed, but his soreness has stayed consistant over the past several months, regardless of when his last trim was. He isn't more lame on any particular leg... He seems to be hurting the same amount on each leg.

Over these several months, he has been perfectly sound on soft ground at every gait. But as soon as he steps on hard ground, he starts limping.

Does anyone have a guess as to what this may be? I'm at a loss here.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

Sounds like hoof tenderness. You can try some hoof hardener or you may want to consider shoeing.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

roro said:


> Sounds like hoof tenderness. You can try some hoof hardener or you may want to consider shoeing.




Isn't it unusual for that to come about so suddenly though?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

If he's never had a problem and it just started after switching farriers, I would certainly look at the way he's being trimmed. It may be that he's being trimmed too short and/or too much sole is being taken off. That can easily cause soreness for 2-4 weeks.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

PaintHorseMares said:


> If he's never had a problem and it just started after switching farriers, I would certainly look at the way he's being trimmed. It may be that he's being trimmed too short and/or too much sole is being taken off. That can easily cause soreness for 2-4 weeks.


Agreed. Depending on how long between trimmings you go, the tenderness can last long enough to give the impression of constant tenderness as just as it starts to wear off it is nearly time for another trim and you are back to square one again. It's too much of a coincidence, to me, that it started with the farrier switch.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

His feet don't look too short at all, though, and several other people who've seen them agree. I usually go 8 weeks between trims, and he's always just as sore then.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Really need to see pics of the hooves. Sole shot, side shot from ground level and frontal shots, a rear shot wouldn't hurt. I am thinking either sole trimmed too thin or perhaps the bars need tweaking.. Need to see the sole for sure to estiguess that.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Appyt said:


> Really need to see pics of the hooves. Sole shot, side shot from ground level and frontal shots, a rear shot wouldn't hurt. I am thinking either sole trimmed too thin or perhaps the bars need tweaking.. Need to see the sole for sure to estiguess that.



Okay, I'll take some tomorrow. Do you need to see all four or is one enough?


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Isn't it the fores? At least of the one you know is causing lameness. All 4 would be good, but prolly not necessary. You could post them on photobucket and link to them rather than trying to put them all in a post here.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Appyt said:


> Isn't it the fores? At least of the one you know is causing lameness. All 4 would be good, but prolly not necessary. You could post them on photobucket and link to them rather than trying to put them all in a post here.




I'm not really sure if it's just the fores or if it's all four. He limps so badly that it's hard to tell. I'll just take them of all four to be safe.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Dang, that doesn't sound good.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Okay, here are the pictures:
Hooves - a set on Flickr


His last trim was September 14th.


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## qtrhrsecrazy (Aug 2, 2009)

Since this happened when switching farriers I would think there is the problem... 

New farrier may be trimming him at a different angle, and sudden angle changes will cause soreness in tendons


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

qtrhrsecrazy said:


> Since this happened when switching farriers I would think there is the problem...
> 
> New farrier may be trimming him at a different angle, and sudden angle changes will cause soreness in tendons



But if it's his tendons, why would he be perfectly sound on softer ground? And why would that last for several months without getting any better?


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

From the picture it looks like the horse's heels are low and could be causing soreness. Of course I am not a hoof expert.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm assuming you didn't have a choice about switching farriers... but, if you did, I would switch back. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

The current trim is not consistent from one hoof to another, there is flaring, some heels are forward and the trim even on an individual hoof is not even. Very little callus on the sole -- possibly trimmed, which would cause tenderness. Bars are wrong somehow, but I can't place it just at the moment (past my bedtime LOL); possibly overtrimmed or folded over from not trimmed properly??? Bars with too much pressure can cause sensitivity also. Looks like someone that maybe doesn't have the experience needed?

The only other thing I can think of is to look at your riding habits lately. I know my girl is usually fine on anything, but this last month she is ouchy on the gravel road. I figured out it's because I hadn't been riding her regularly on it anymore -- too much soft ground and she's not used to the gravel anymore. I'm working her up to it again though and she'll be fine.

However, this case really does sound like the farrier isn't doing what your horse needs. Can you go back to the previous farrier?


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

I'm with NorthernMamma. I think there has been sole trimming and when that happens and the walls are short as well the sole is tender. Bars might be laid over some, hard to see. Or they may be trying to protect the sole if it's tender. Bevel could be stronger on the toe and around the corners as well. They look a lil squared off. I'd love to see pics of the previous farriers work.. Don't suppose that is possible.  If you keep this farrier, be sure you watch him trim and do not allow any sole to be touched. just in case..


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

I'll definitely see if I can change farriers. I can't go back to my last one, unfortunately.



This is the best I can show you of my last farrier's work. I'm not sure how long between trims this was.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3583/3397902370_33c0473785_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3397099693_4cb2b0aa5a_o.jpg


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Hmmmm, Does that front right hoof always point out? They don't look bad there. Hard to tell but it looks like they have more heel. Right hind is flared on the outside.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Appyt said:


> Hmmmm, Does that front right hoof always point out? They don't look bad there. Hard to tell but it looks like they have more heel. Right hind is flared on the outside.




No, I think he was just standing funny. Should I ask my current farrier to leave more heel, and if that doesn't work, change farriers? Or should I just go ahead and switch?


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

CloudsMystique said:


> His feet don't look too short at all, though, and several other people who've seen them agree. I usually go 8 weeks between trims, and he's always just as sore then.


Keep in mind that taking even less than 1/4 inch _too much_ off the sole or heel can make them sore on the sole/frog.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

No, I think he was just standing funny. Should I ask my current farrier to leave more heel, and if that doesn't work, change farriers? Or should I just go ahead and switch?

I think I'd ask him to be sure and not remove ANY sole. And to be sure the Frog is not above/taller than the heel. He may need a tiny bit more heel left.. I can't say for sure. I would ask him also to do a little bit less then walk your horse off to see if he's tender. 

I once had a farrier who seemed eager to learn what I wanted done, but didn't take time to look at the info I sent her. She rasped the walls down flat across the bottom and in doing so also removed some sole from near the wall. Horse was very tender for a week or so. I was not happy. She didn't think she was taking sole off. So, that's a possibility.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

CloudsMystique said:


> Should I ask my current farrier to leave more heel, and if that doesn't work, change farriers? Or should I just go ahead and switch?


If you can feel you have a good relationship with your current farrier, ie. (s)he is willing to listen to you, your concerns and questions and is willing engage in productive discussion about your horse, I would try again but armed with some information and questions. If you can't approach, then I would try a different farrier IF you can find one by personal recommendation. Switching service providers is not always the answer.

About the heel -- follow what Appyt says and look again at the photos -- you'll see how the heels are not consistent from hoof to hoof. Be sure to watch what your farrier is doing and ask him/her to explain so you can understand. Remember, no trimming the sole at the toe. Generally, no trimming the sole at all, but this is only GENERALLY and by no means an absolute. Take before and after pics, dated and learn from them. I see a whole lot more on a photo sometimes then what I see on the hoof.

Let us know what happens at the next trim.


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## IrishRider (Aug 7, 2008)

Since this has been going on for a little while I would consult with your vet, not your farrier. I was in a similar situation not long ago at all and it was a farrier problem. If his feet are not level in any way, that will put a lot of pressure on his joints which can cause pain and lameness. The second I switched farriers my horse came up lame and it was for that exact reason. I would get some x-rays taken.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Okay, so.... He now has two identical cracks going up the middle of his front feet. They're almost an inch long.

I've been putting hoof hardener on him, but should I shoe him now?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

If a horse goes lame after a trim - 90% of the time unless the trim looks like it was done with a chainsaw, the problem is not with the feet.
As a rule of thumb:
When a lameness shows up on soft ground - it is related to the tendon and ligament structures.
When a lameness shows up on hard ground - it is related to the joints.
When a lameness shows up on gravelly ground - it is their feet.

Depending on the age, relative amount of work and weight of the horse the culprits I would be looking into are arthritis (more specifically ringbone) and laminitis (or "founder"). Call your vet.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

ETA: I looked at the pictures of his hooves, it does not look like laminitis, but I would check for pulses anyways (if you can feel his heartbeat around the hoof, that is the first sign of laminitis along with being over-weight). From what I can see it looks like there may be some swelling in the coffin joint, which shows up directly above the cornet band. What you should be doing is squishing this area with your finger tips. If it feels soft as opposed to hard then it is probably inflammation caused by arthritis.
The reason that I would give for this showing up with a new farrier would be the angle changes. Horses with low grade ringbone are quite stable when their hoof angles are not changing, but as soon as you change something around, the status quo is upset and the hoof needs to re-establish equilibrium. In horses with more progressive ringbone, there is one set of angles that work to keep the horses sound, and you must maintain that angle.
I would call your vet out and talk to them about options for keeping your horse sound and then discuss this with your new farrier.

Good luck!


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Anebel - 

It's definitely worst on gravel. He's a little bad on pavement, but he's perfect everywhere else. I already checked for a pulse, and there's none. He's about 16, in good shape, but hasn't been worked a lot lately because he's had a sore back.




Thanks for this - It's really helpful!

"When a lameness shows up on soft ground - it is related to the tendon and ligament structures.
When a lameness shows up on hard ground - it is related to the joints.
When a lameness shows up on gravelly ground - it is their feet."


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Just as an FYI - a sore back is a classic sign of arthritis in the hocks.
As a fun experiment you might want to try putting him an an NSAID (like bute) for a few days and see what happens.
If he isn't prone to ulcers it won't do him any harm and it will give you an idea of what you're dealing with. At 16, arthritis is a very common problem.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Just as an FYI - a sore back is a classic sign of arthritis in the hocks.
> As a fun experiment you might want to try putting him an an NSAID (like bute) for a few days and see what happens.
> If he isn't prone to ulcers it won't do him any harm and it will give you an idea of what you're dealing with. At 16, arthritis is a very common problem.




Well, he doesn't seem to have any problems with his back legs. When the vet looked at his back, he said he thought it was strictly a back problem... not caused by anything else and not related to his front leg problems. He told me to put him on bute for a few days, but he's prone to both ulcers and colicking from ulcers, so we decided against it.

Do you think I should put him on a joint supplement, or do you think it's just his feet since it's mostly a gravel problem?

This is the supplement he's on right now:

Platinum Performance Equine Wellness

That's supposed to help with joints, but I could put him on a supplement specifically for joints and see if that helps.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

CloudsMystique said:


> Well, he doesn't seem to have any problems with his back legs. When the vet looked at his back, he said he thought it was strictly a back problem... not caused by anything else and not related to his front leg problems. He told me to put him on bute for a few days, but he's prone to both ulcers and colicking from ulcers, so we decided against it.
> 
> Do you think I should put him on a joint supplement, or do you think it's just his feet since it's mostly a gravel problem?
> 
> ...


The problem with oral joint supplements is that the PSGAG and HA molecules are actually too large to be absorbed through the digestive system into the blood stream in a large enough concentration to do anything. Some horses are able to more than others, but even this is not enough.
The best way to get a joint supplement to your horse is through IM injections of Adequan and IV injections of Legend. Talk to your vet.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> The problem with oral joint supplements is that the PSGAG and HA molecules are actually too large to be absorbed through the digestive system into the blood stream in a large enough concentration to do anything. Some horses are able to more than others, but even this is not enough.
> The best way to get a joint supplement to your horse is through IM injections of Adequan and IV injections of Legend. Talk to your vet.




Okay, I will. Thanks.


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## paint03 (Nov 17, 2008)

I don't know if you have ever used adequan before but it can get a little expensive. My 3 year old just recovered from a coffin bone fracture so I learned alot about hooves during his recovery, I would definitely talk to your farrier. The toes look a bit rounded to me, maybe causing him to break over in his stride. The frogs should point directly towards the toe, in one picture it wasn't and that can cause flaring and make them unbalanced. The coronet band should run parallel to the ground. Just some things to look for, I'm not an expert by any means but just some stuff I learned! Good luck! I know how frustrating it can be!


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

Thanks for the help, everyone. I will talk to my farrier when he comes out next, and if that doesn't help, I'll talk to my vet again.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Whats going on with that right lateral flare? Looks a little butchered there...

Anyways... heels are a little low so his angles are off. I agree with anabel there seems to be swelling above the cornet band. Tell your farrier to not trim the sole or frog anymore.. he's probably taking off to much.

I also like anabel's suggestion...process of elimination could help you and your vet make a diagnosis. 

Have you tried trail boots? if he improves its likely an issue with his feet..
Try bute and see if it improves... report your findings to the vet.


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