# configuration for three horses...



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Subbing because I have the exact same set up with two horses and was thinking of removing the divider also (and, there is the possibility of a third horse at some point). My horse is dominant enough that the pony won't come in the stall with her -- but the pony won't go into the other stall either, she just stands outside whatever stall has the horse in it.

I would think the best place for the waterers is in both farthest interior corners, and the hay nets could be hung together between the outside doors, so the horses could eat with their heads together and their butts apart. Would that work?


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

We have a lean too set up with water buckets at either end and we put a small box around the buckets to they cannot be tipped over. So basically the water buckets sit in the triangle made with the wood in front of the corner. 

I like the idea of removing the divider and having two openings - hay bags hung in opposite corners and one between the dutch doors may work but you have it covered by having them outside as well. We have 4 horses but my daughters mare is having some issues with her sight (she is slowly losing it do to melanomas) so we leave her in by herself in an adjacent pen - with our other 3 there is always an odd man out - no matter where I place feed water etc. We have all mares so I don't worry about the dominant male trying to herd the mare away from the other gelding. Be aware that this may happen or Harley may lose his spot as dominant male.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I'd set the spacing similar to what is used in a standing stall like many draft owners use. You will have more room but you can put one bucket on whichever side of the centerline is works best and then put the other buckets at least 8 foot over in either direction.Hang the hay bag on the other side of the center line and put your other two into the corner or as close to depending on just where you hung your bucket. I think you said you already had hay hung outside. If you have an overhang and a way to install another bucket on the outside wall between the dutch doors I would.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

QtrBel said:


> I'd set the spacing similar to what is used in a standing stall like many draft owners use. You will have more room but you can put one bucket on whichever side of the centerline is works best and then put the other buckets at least 8 foot over in either direction.Hang the hay bag on the other side of the center line and put your other two into the corner or as close to depending on just where you hung your bucket. I think you said you already had hay hung outside. If you have an overhang and a way to install another bucket on the outside wall between the dutch doors I would.


I do have an overhang and this is a very good idea! Kodak prefers to stand outside anyway so I like to give her that option. I could hang a hay net near the outside corner of the barn where I currently have my outside water trough (I'll be putting it away now that it's freezing solid). I think I'll do that! Having several haynets gives them options and it helps encourage them to move around.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> We have a lean too set up with water buckets at either end and we put a small box around the buckets to they cannot be tipped over. So basically the water buckets sit in the triangle made with the wood in front of the corner.
> 
> I like the idea of removing the divider and having two openings - hay bags hung in opposite corners and one between the dutch doors may work but you have it covered by having them outside as well. We have 4 horses but my daughters mare is having some issues with her sight (she is slowly losing it do to melanomas) so we leave her in by herself in an adjacent pen - with our other 3 there is always an odd man out - no matter where I place feed water etc. We have all mares so I don't worry about the dominant male trying to herd the mare away from the other gelding. Be aware that this may happen or Harley may lose his spot as dominant male.


Great idea with the box around the buckets. Given that these are heated, I don't want the horses to damage them and risk electrocution! Will definitely do that for the corners. I hadn't thought of hanging a haynet between the dutch doors but that is a great idea too. 

And yes, I expect Harley will lose his place. He's only dominant because Kodak is so submissive, she'd follow anyone. He's not truly a leader, and he is aging. The new horse I'm considering is young and very much an extrovert. He isn't dominant or aggressive, but can be an in-your-face kind of horse. I expect he and Harley will have some confrontations, though I do hope they can work it out.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Avna said:


> Subbing because I have the exact same set up with two horses and was thinking of removing the divider also (and, there is the possibility of a third horse at some point). My horse is dominant enough that the pony won't come in the stall with her -- but the pony won't go into the other stall either, she just stands outside whatever stall has the horse in it.
> 
> I would think the best place for the waterers is in both farthest interior corners, and the hay nets could be hung together between the outside doors, so the horses could eat with their heads together and their butts apart. Would that work?


That's what I was thinking for the heated water buckets. It hadn't occurred to me to place hay nets between the dutch doors, but it makes sense. Except that I could probably only put two there, and would like to be able to hang three. Maybe in the far corners on the other side of the dutch doors?


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

This is a very good plan. My stalls are also 10x12 which is plenty big, and have two doors so horses never get trapped inside. 

They never go in a stall together, ever even though they are a very peaceful group. 


Adding a new horse especially with two already there can always be a challenge. 


My horses get their hay outside on the ground. I put out four piles at least 30 feet apart. Any closer and more dominant horse tends to keep lower horse(s) away. 


The other thing they do is make sure they are facing the others, especially the herd boss Chivas. So their rears are all pointing away from the hay like points on a star. 


In your set up, I would put a water bucket in each corner and one in the middle, protected by a box. 

I would also put one outside in the middle (between the doors) at least until you were sure the new horse was "allowed inside" to get water. 


Keeping new horses from water is something I have noticed in every herd situation. They will let them eat hay but refuse to let them drink! 


The hay nets I would hang three inside on the door wall; two in the corners and one in the middle. I would hang three more on the outside in the same pattern.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

You could hang on the inside of the outside wall but I'm thinking your electric is on the inside of the inside wall. I wouldn't hang on opposite sides(inside vs outside - all inside the stalled area) as IME you really want everyone facing the same direction to encourage good behavior.


AT one of the boarding barns we had three stalls with dutch doors that would open into a paddock. Every three stalls had a 30 or 36 X100 foot pen. I had three at the time so worked great for me. Each horse learned her spot and rarely would they intrude on another's space. A lot will depend on how the third horse fits into the hierarchy.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think you should be prepared to have problems!!
Two horses that get on works well, we've had plenty that would happily share a stable, shelter, hay even but when you throw another horse into that mix it seems to go wrong.
If you plan on leaving all the doors open you could well find that the new horse decides to take the big space and won't allow the others in so they're squashed into the small one. If he then decides he wants to be in with one of them or both of them its going to result in something getting trapped in a corner.
When a friend of mine went from 2 horses that were OK to share to 3 horses she found that they settled best when they were all shut in their own stables and since they rarely ventured out at night anyway it didn't matter that much. Now the old pony's gone (died) she can leave the doors open again. Her mare wouldn't have anything to do with the newcomer while the old pony was alive, she was really mean to him and he was mean to the old pony


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Sounds exciting @Acadianartist. Hope the test ride goes well.


I have lots of thoughts about having three but not much time to write now. Subbing to come back. Some days, I feel like "two's company, three's a crowd" but other mornings, like this one, I look out and see everyone happily sharing space and eating hay and think it works just fine :grin:


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I agree three can really cause some problems. At least in the beginning, a month or so, would put the new horse up at night in the separate stall with plenty of food and water. That way everyone would get a little break and all have access to food and water. 

Could also rotate who is in the separate stall; first week new horse, second week Harley, third week Kodak. Changing them out that way would help them all acclimate into a group. 

I normally put new horses out by themselves during the day and the existing horses out at night, then slowly add them together. Some have had minimal problems, some have had major problems. 

It is easier with either all mares or all geldings; sometimes mixed herds take a really long time to adjust, especially with three.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

AnitaAnne said:


> I agree three can really cause some problems. At least in the beginning, a month or so, would put the new horse up at night in the separate stall with plenty of food and water. That way everyone would get a little break and all have access to food and water.
> 
> Could also rotate who is in the separate stall; first week new horse, second week Harley, third week Kodak. Changing them out that way would help them all acclimate into a group.
> 
> ...


Yes, they will be coming in at night and there will be one horse in the third stall separated from the two others. I hadn't thought of a rotation -- again, great idea! Exactly why I ask these questions. I do expect to have to keep the new horse separate for some time, even outside. I will alternate between pasture and paddock until all three are able to share a big, open space (ie, pasture) and will monitor things closely once I allow all three access to the open stalls. I do worry a lot, and the last thing I want is for Harley to be overly stressed (though some stress is going to be inevitable). I think he will challenge the new horse and they will likely fight over Kodak. But hopefully everyone will eventually find their place without too much blood being spilled. Again, the new horse is not the dominant type, and lives happily with a few other horses 24/7 at the moment, but he's young and very curious so he's bound to stick his nose where it doesn't belong. 

Worst case scenario, he won't stay. We are discussing the possibility of me taking this new horse home for the winter on an off-property lease until I decide if I want him to be a permanent part of my herd. The current owner has assured me I can bring him back at anytime if it doesn't work out. I realize I'll be upsetting the balance, but I can't rehome Kodak until I have another horse lined up because Harley doesn't do well alone. This may just be a transition, or I may end up having three horses for a while, who knows. But I do have options if it doesn't work.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Don't get too worried before you give it a chance. We added a third horse to a mare/gelding pair thinking there might be an issue, and there were exactly none. We put the new mare in the roundpen inside the pasture so she could get acquainted with the current residents, and within 20 minutes, we'd simply turned her out with the other two. They trotted around for 10 minutes, and that was it. The next morning, everyone was eating out of the small hay feeder together, even with another hay pile and another feeder full. 

On the other hand, my friend added a third horse to her pair of mares and it took three weeks before one of the mares stopped charging the new horse's pen. She was almost ready to take the new horse back to the previous owner when peace reigned one day. Now all three are out together with no issues.

I think your setup looks good. Once they are standing together across the fence dozing or feeding, put them out together. It might take two hours, it might take two weeks. Separating the new horse at night for awhile sounds like a good plan if that makes you sleep better. Play it by ear. 

You may luck out and your horses will peacefully share the hay nets, or you may need to add more. For three horses, I would do four hay nets/feeding stations-- possibly 5 if the horses aren't peacefully eating next to each other. Putting your waterers in a box sounds like a good idea. We use a 200-gallon tank with a heater in the run-in area, and the horses all drink readily from it. If one was continually ousted, we would move it outdoors or put up a second one.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes, good points @SilverMaple. We may find it goes smoothly, or we may find it takes time. I really think this is the type of horse that has the potential to work with my two, otherwise I wouldn't even be considering him. But there's no way to predict how it will go, so I'll just have to try it and find out. 

And yes to numerous hay nets inside and outside. I'll also leave water outside, but it's already getting really cold here, so it won't take long before it freezes. In the past, the horses themselves make the decision to stop drinking outside when the water gets colder, even if I break the ice regularly, and prefer to come in their stalls and drink from the heated buckets. I also think it's better for Harley's throat because the cold seems to make him cough. So if I can, I'd like to keep that system going, but we'll see... I do have to decide if this is a good horse for me first, but want to make sure it's doable and if I'm going to bring him home, it will likely happen very quickly before winter really sets in and they have less room to move around.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ I got a new horse once and brought him home in the middle of a blizzard. The only gate I could get open was the one where the current residents resided, and at -35 F with a 50 mph wind, there was no way I was setting up a new pen. I took a deep breath and chucked him out there with the herd -- a mix of middle-of-the-road geldings and mares and one boss mare. They all made one lap of the corral, then everyone went back into the shelter or beside the barn to get out of the wind. That was it. They couldn't be bothered to act the fool when the weather was that bad, and two days later when it stopped, everyone was a peaceful herd. Every time I peeked out at them from the kitchen window, they were either standing by the barn or eating from the hay feeder, so it was a non-issue. I wish you that kind of transition! Horses that are used to living in a herd generally adapt pretty well to new companions.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Regardless of where this horse comes from, some separtion should be done while they get used to seeing each other from afar.
Quarantine is best but being realistic in winter when setting new fence boundaries is not so easily accomplished...
If the horse is current on vaccinations, coggins..looks healthy and thriving...would probably just get the vet to do a wellness check before coming home and be done.

Stalls...you know your two are compatible enough to share a stall...
_I would leave the divider in place myself_...it allows the "new" horse to be part of the herd but not in the herd yet unless they allow.
The divider allows the new horse to have a place to go to since your current two will probably pair off together to start.
He will be able to get a drink of water and hay to eat nearby when they other two do the same.
I think if you remove the wall he will be kept out by those two and they could be territorial more than you realize...
Then again, yours may not care at all in which case, remove that barrier and let them all in together to live as a "family" herd.

I personally try to give my horses several days to see but not touch each other and get accustomed to their scent, then with a fence between them when they do go to make acquaintances then it isn't a big deal when they are totally together the squeal and sillies have already been done with some protection between them. 
You can do that introduction through the stall wall divider too if you leave it in place...


Here's hoping your return visit is what you are hoping for...a new horse comes home for you and a smooth transition from two to three takes place.. :smile:
To do list...need to buy more hay!!!

:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Haha, yes! More hay is on the list. My supplier has plenty in his barn and will sell me what I need to get an extra horse through the winter should that happen. I have had my new hay tested, incidentally, and it is good hay so I'm happy. I consulted with my equine nutritionist and we've come up with a nutritional plan for both horses that should ensure they get everything they need. Harley's stool is great lately, he's not coughing, his temporary lameness never came back, so overall, he is feeling pretty good these days! And Kodak, well, she's still Kodak. But healthy!  Anyway, I digress...

The reason for removing the divider is so that the horses can become trapped. Since the dutch doors generally stay open, horses can wander in at will, and Kodak and Harley do it all the time. If a third horse tried to squeeze in between them (and this new horse is quite goofy, so would be exactly the type to do that), it would be chaos. Removing the divider means there are two openings so an enter/exit is available at all times. My reasoning was that it would essentially be a big shelter with two ways in and out. However, there will be a finished third stall so I can take a horse out of the equation. I can also shut the paddock gate so the pasture and paddock are separate enclosures for the first few days. I do want to keep them separate for a bit to keep the stress on Harley to a minimum. I will watch them and see how they interact, and the first encounter will happen in a large, open space. 

I don't know whether this horse is right for me, but I have a good feeling about him. Although I haven't been actively horse shopping, I can't believe the number of people who have contacted me about a horse they want to sell me... some really nice ones too, but they just weren't right for my herd and/or lifestyle. This guy might be, but I'm taking it slow. I don't want to get too excited in case he's too much for me. I'll be sure to post an update after this second ride on him.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_The reason for removing the divider is so that the horses can become trapped. Since the dutch doors generally stay open, horses can wander in at will, and Kodak and Harley do it all the time._
Yes, currently your two do this amicably...they are herd mates. 
Now you are introducing a unknown entity and a possible threat to Harley being Kodak's honey.
If you think because you give 2 openings you have removed "the trap factor" you haven't seen horses gang up on another and beat the crap out of it...

_The first encounter will happen in a large, open space. 
_The first encounter if this were my horses would be with a solid object like that stall wall between them.
Noses touch but not striking legs or hooves, nor can teeth bite and tear another's hide...you don't know what this trio shall do together if anything or much.

_I can also shut the paddock gate so the pasture and paddock are separate enclosures for the first few days. _
Now this is what I would do while they see and get used to each other...perimeters safely set in place.

_I do want to keep them separate for a bit to keep the stress on Harley to a minimum. 
_I think you may be reading more into the stress on Harley you think he is going to be faced with... 
Letting them go nose to nose, face to face...all of that will take the stress out near immediately.
Seeing, touching, scenting each other...
If you can't totally isolate them apart during quarantine then let them have some contact immediately, but control the exposure so if any becomes aggressive no one is hurt.
You focus on Harley, I think you might have more issue with Kodak being aggressive to the newcomer.

You refer to rotating stalls, keeping one separate is going to put stress in their existence...someone is always odd one out.
Once they know each other just keep them together.
Your winters are cold and harsh...body heat of animals in close proximity keeps them warmer, probably one of the reasons you do catch your horses sharing their stalls as much as they do...
Once they do get to know each other, then and only then would I remove that wall and let the three live together...
No I would _not_ remove a different one nightly, segregating one...
Save that stall separation for sickness or injury and protected status needing done.
Your barn, your rules, your horses...done as you want.

Good luck with that second ride...hope all goes well if it is "meant to be."
​:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Well, we disagree a lot @horselovinguy, so I won't go back to each of your suggestions. Obviously the horses will meet over a fence, that's why I will be keeping them separate at first. I meant that the first time I turn them all out together, it will be in a big, open area, not where they can go into the large "shelter" space I am setting up. Anyway, as I said, we'll just agree to disagree.

One thing I will say though, is that there is no way Kodak will show aggression to any horse. She is the most submissive horse on the planet. She could do with more assertiveness, but no, I do not think she will show one iota of aggression. It's Harley who feels he has to be the boss. This comes -- at least partly -- from Harley getting pushed around by other horses in the past. He is the classic inferiority complex little horse. I do hope he will get over it quickly, but I don't want to stress him because he has had ulcers in the past. He's also older and deserves his quiet time which he relishes. So yes, I'll be separating the three at first, but to keep the divider in, once they are all in turnout together, means potentially having three horses trying to squeeze into a 10 x 12 space and there is no way that will end well. Can they corner a horse in a 10 x 24 foot space with two openings? Sure, but at least there is more room and some hope that at least one can get out. Again, Kodak is the most non-confrontational horse I ever met. Harley often stands in his stall and she'll stand in front of it with her head lowered. He likes being the boss of her, but honestly, she'd follow a turnip.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You mistook not what I wrote Acadian..
The *blue type* were *your *words..._not mine._
I thought you were asking for other suggestions...ideas.

If you think I would entertain first introductions in a stall all together, no protection from each other...you really have not any idea of where I come from...nor the pro-advocate for safety/health of your horses or anyone's horses I champion for..
I corrected mentally what you wrote because I knew _you erred_ putting that phrased as you did.. 

Fences between horses of solid objects like wood planks or steel gates, yes!
Tape fences are no match for a angry or excited horse, electrified or not.

If you had kept your temper in check you also would have read to _*later* _take the divider out...

You obviously have not seen a docile, underling suddenly change their panties to boss status.
Don't ever underestimate your spooky disposition changing mare for not doing that...it could be you in the line of fire and hail of hooves.
You also have no idea of how this new horse will respond to stimuli of new herd-mates either..

All I will say is I hope you find a suitable match for your needs and that whatever you find fits well in your herd.
_Your barn, your rules, your horses...done as you want...as it should be._

_I'm done..._

*Good Luck and Good-Night. *


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

I will say from recent experience with a new horse introduced into my herd. New horse was a gelding who at his previous home was the under dog. My 5 year old who is also an under dog changed his under dog status to top dog. 

Mind you he was always submissive never rocked the boat type. Well that changed real quick when a new horse got put into the mix. Even with careful introduction of new gelding there was a lot of chasing, biting kicking going on. 

So never underestimate the under dog of the herd. The new gelding had to be moved into a different home as it wasn't going to work out here. It was quite clear my one gelding wasn't going to except him. New gelding changed also and not for the better. 

I think mares can make things more difficult also when introducing new horses into the herd,geldings can get protective of there mare so that can cause fighting. Had a mare at one time and she was the cause of many fights between the boys. I now have only geldings,even then things don't always work out.

So beware of it because it does happen I witnessed it myself with my own horse. Who I thought would always be an under dog that was submissive. ...was I ever wrong. Back to just 2 horses this happened a few months ago.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Hi @Rambo, yes, of course I realize anything can happen. But I have a gelding and a mare, so regardless of what I get next, there will be one horse that is not of the same sex as two others. And I'm sooooo done with mares, so geldings it is. 

As I said, I absolutely do not believe Kodak would ever show any aggression whatsoever. That said, in the event that I am wrong, as I have previously written, the plan is to first keep the new horse separate, and then do a gradual introduction. Should that go badly, I'll keep them separate longer, but in the event that it will just not work, I will send the horse back. This is a trial of sorts, IF I even bring him home. There's no way to know until I try it. The only alternative is to never bring a new horse home, so I will hope for the best, but I think I'm as prepared as I can be if things don't go well. I have lots of enclosures, and enough stalls to keep them separate, but I do want the three to eventually become a herd, so here's hoping they all become friends sooner rather than later.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Well, I think I must have set a record for the thread that went off the rails the fastest. 
@horselovinguy, Yes, I know the words in blue are mine. And yes, I came here for advice. I didn't think that meant I HAD to take all the advice given. I got lots of great suggestions in here. I just don't feel leaving the divider in is a good option for us. Here's what you wrote:

Stalls...you know your two are compatible enough to share a stall...
_I would leave the divider in place myself_...it allows the "new" horse to be part of the herd but not in the herd yet unless they allow.
The divider allows the new horse to have a place to go to since your current two will probably pair off together to start.
He will be able to get a drink of water and hay to eat nearby when they other two do the same.
I think if you remove the wall he will be kept out by those two and they could be territorial more than you realize...

Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly in the original post. The dutch doors are always open onto the paddock. I rarely shut them, and I'd like to keep it that way because it allows Harley to come in if he's feeling chilly. Given his propensity to coughing, I watch this very carefully. So if I leave the divider in with three horses in the paddock, there is a danger that all three will end up squeezing in there together. There is only one door per stall. There are two if I remove the divider so a better chance for a safe exit until they figure out how to all cuddle up together. You say Kodak and Harley may keep the third horse from entering. That's possible. But what if Kodak and Harley are off grazing, and the new horse finds its way into a stall, then Harley and Kodak come looking and decide to gang up on the new horse? With the divider out, he might be able to escape, but otherwise, there is potential for 3 horses in a 10 x 12 space. So I think we are agreeing more than you think here, but perhaps you can see why I'm confused by your suggestion to leave the divider in, unless you meant to shut the horses in, which I don't want to do. 

Again, yes I come here for advice. That doesn't mean I have to commit to taking it does it? And when I don't take it, I like to explain why. So now that I've done that, do you still think I should leave the divider in given that the outside doors will remain open and horses can just wander in and out? If so, as I said in my previous post, we'll have to agree to disagree.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I'm sorry...we will try again.
Yes, you did ask and always have the option of using or not information offered.

You honestly do not have much experience in introducing horses to a herd and keeping all safer.
Has Harley ever gone face to face/body to body with a total strange horse "touching" and what if anything was his reaction? A snort, a guffaw sound, scream, squeal, drop down and posturing...
Thinking if he did get this exposure he was at a show and fully tacked up and he_ is _ respectful when under tack...take bridle and saddle away and you unleash a new attitude is not uncommon.
Same with Kodak...when has she had exposure and how did she react with voice, body and attitude?
New horse you will have "0" idea and it be a total unknown...but to give them all the most protection for the first few days meeting a solid wall placed between them and a solid fence or a heavy charged electric fence keeping them apart from touching is not a bad way to go...for everyone's safety, _especially yours._

_Yes, I do think for right now leave the stall divider in._
If you can also limit the new horse to being kept separate but near during the adjustment period of getting to know each other it affords all to slowly adjust to each other so when you do put them together the initial squealing most mares do should not get Harley territorial and potentially aggressive trying to protect and herd her away.
The unknown is the new horse who in his domain current sounds docile...but once he is put on new ground he may become a dominating force...
I've seen 2 geldings battle like stallions over a mare, it was not pleasant and actually pretty terrifying to hear let alone see the bites and full body kicks...and who the heck wants to have to get between and separate that, _not me!_
My own geldings who are very docile in disposition struck/kicked hard at each other at first meetings..with a heavy stall wall between them the thudding hollow sound of hoof hitting was huge from both of them.
The 4 board 51/2 foot tall fence between them they reared and pawed the air but did not connect or touch thankfully...
_I digress and went off on a tangent...._

Yes, I _would _allow them all to see, to smell and touch _with limitations_ so no serious injury happens...
The limitation would be that existing stall wall in place to catch the hoof action or teeth to protect your horses. 
It would also be fence panels, board fence or one heck of a hard charge on electric fence if that is what you have...turn the power all the way to highest output while introducing them to each other to keep them from getting to "friendly" to fast.
You will know how it is going to go by watching closely and you have to let them duke it out some...


When you do go to put them together, if it were me it would be geldings first then add Kodak last...that is when you're going to need the largest area is for her to run and be safe if the boys get into a fight over her...it is she who needs protecting.
They say the best place to add a new horse to a herd is on neutral territory none are familiar with...that way everyone is at a slight disadvantage which gives everyone fair footing...don't think you have another 5 acres nor the ability to bring the 3 horses together from separate directions at the same time...
When ever you add a new catalyst you made all partners unknowns in behavior attitudes...just be very careful and not turn your back nor let your guard down on any of them.

You did ask about hay and water...
I would hang or make 4 hay spots inside and 4 nets outside...spread them out.
4 buckets of water in and 4 buckets out so no matter where anyone goes to eat there is always a extra supply more than horses...
Hanging or supplying so much you do not need to put a lot in any one spot...the horses will move around, play move your feet and that is fine but offering in & out gives all a chance to eat and settle down while eating if not challenged.
Hay placed distances apart will deter them from chasing another off to much when they rather eat..

Outside buckets I know can freeze but dump them mid-day if need be but someone is going to need that access to hay and water while they work out new dynamics and herd hierarchy.

Take it or leave my words of wisdom, your choice...
But do think about it and remember you have a lot of unknowns approaching from all the horses..
Good day.

:runninghorse2:...


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

See, I told you we agree more than we disagree! 

Ok, so I actually did get some useful advice out of that. I hadn't thought of introducing the two geldings to each other without Kodak in the mix. That's a great plan! It will remove the factor that is likely to cause the most conflict. I can totally do that. It makes a lot of sense, but I hadn't thought of it because -- as you point out -- I don't have a lot of experience introducing new horses to a herd.

As for Harley and Kodak meeting new horses over a fence, that actually did happen once when my neighbor's horses all came for a visit one day (two geldings and a mare). They got out and came running down the road. Another neighbor came to get me because she didn't know what to do. They didn't have halters on, but when they spotted my horses, they turned into my barnyard to get a better look and I was able to halter the herd leader using a bucket of treats, then I put them in my pasture with the gate between paddock and pasture safely shut. I will also point out that my paddock has a top board as well as electric fencing, so it is quite secure. The metal gate is 6 feet tall. ALL my fences, electric or board, are 5 feet tall. I don't take chances when it comes to fencing. When my neighbors' horses came, all five horses were very curious, and stood there staring at each other, but there was no squealing or strong reactions. Of course, they were separated and yes, I get that it will be different, which is why I do appreciate advice even if I don't take all of it. 

To answer your question about Harley's reaction to new horses, it's actually very mild. Harley is not an aggressive horse either, it's just that he feels he has to assert himself when he feels threatened. He doesn't squeal, snort, or any of that. He's quite well behaved actually. Until a horse goes after him, and then he goes on the offensive. But it's mostly just a big bluff. He pins his ears, shows his teeth. He will bite if he feels he has to defend himself (or "his" mare). The potential new horse is curious, and young, and will likely look for trouble without meaning to show aggression. Harley will either put him in his place, or... I guess we'll see. When we introduced Harley and Kodak, we let Kodak out into the pasture where Harley was. She went out and started grazing. Harley walked over and started grazing next to her, all the while, watching her out of the corner of his eye. They didn't touch for the longest time. Days maybe. They just grazed side by side. There was zero drama. But yes, of course I understand it may be different with the third horse. 

And yes, hay inside and out, as well as water. It will freeze, but as you point out, I can dump out the ice and re-fill many times a day if necessary. 

Thank you for this.

First pic is Harley meeting Kodak for the first time. Second is of my two horses and my neighbors' horses staring at each other across the fence. It looks like Harley is trying to herd Kodak, but the body language is pretty mild. My husband was a little worried when he came home that day.


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## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

I don't feel like there's enough stall real estate for all 3 horses for me to be comfortable an owner. Who knows, maybe the horses would be fine and it would just be me being uncomfortable... I would consider giving them access to the aisle and that 3rd stall in back through one or both of the other 2 stalls so they have more freedom of movement inside. I don't know if that's an option but if I had another horse coming in that's what I would consider.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Filou said:


> I don't feel like there's enough stall real estate for all 3 horses for me to be comfortable an owner. Who knows, maybe the horses would be fine and it would just be me being uncomfortable... I would consider giving them access to the aisle and that 3rd stall in back through one or both of the other 2 stalls so they have more freedom of movement inside. I don't know if that's an option but if I had another horse coming in that's what I would consider.


I've thought about that, but my fear is that a horse would end up cornered in that back stall. To be clear, the access to the 10 x 24' space will only be during the day when the weather is good and they're on turnout anyway. Harley likes to stand in his stall looking out on colder or nastier days, but Kodak prefers to be outside even in bad weather. The potential new horse currently lives outside 24/7 year round with access to a shelter similar to what I will have, and he also prefers being outside. So they may actually end up not coming in that often, who knows. 

I think I'll have to see if it can work. If it doesn't, I may have to shut the stall doors when they're turned out to prevent any horses going in and getting trapped, but that will mean having to monitor Harley a lot more closely and limit turnout on bad days. There is an overhang, and the side of the barn provides good windbreak, but they would still be exposed to the elements. Harley can only take so much of that, though I could leave the top of the dutch door open, if I wanted to stall him and leave the other two out so they could have contact. He wouldn't move around as much, but it would be an option. I could also build another shelter, but then I still have the problem of a horse potentially being kept out or being cornered in the shelter so it's not really different from what I'm thinking of doing. I also know a lot of people with shelters that sit empty whereas I know Harley will come into his stall when the weather's bad.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

@egrogan has a three-horse set up that works for her three mares all free to come and go in the same shelter. Perhaps she could chime in here.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I'd love to hear from @egrogan! Especially since our 2 hour trail ride yesterday was a blast! We have arranged a trial, and hope to bring him home on Saturday so this is happening! My contractor is finishing the third stall on Thursday. 

I'll post more pics of him as soon as we get him home. But for now... meet Rusty! He is adventurous, lively, but totally unphased by scary things. If something spooks him, his reaction is to stop. Then go sniff it. Maybe try to lick it, lol. He's very curious. He does not feed off nervous energy. Even when the horse in front of us spooked, he didn't care. Has a lovely trot. The most in-your-face horse I've ever met! I will immediately begin ground work training with him to make sure he understands boundaries. If he doesn't work out, we just bring him back, but my gut feeling is that we will have lots of great adventures together for years to come. He will walk through anything boldly. No hesitation. Loves going on trail rides and will happily venture out on his own. In this photo, he is staring at the lake because he wants to go in it. I let him go walk on the edge a bit and he pawed at the water playfully. Apparently he likes to swim. I feel like a kid on Christmas eve.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Oh, I LOVE him! I am such an appy fan. Too bad Smilie isn't here to be excited for you. Can't wait to hear about your new adventures with Rusty!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Congratulations @Acadianartist he is lovely! You really deserved a nice trail ride where you felt relaxed. And you never know what effect Rusty will have on Kodak- I appreciate all of the attention and dedication you have given to her but you truly deserve to enjoy riding.

I can't like the snow in the pictures but I love a nice Appy and am so glad that you had such a good experience riding him.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Ooh, I had no idea he was so spotty! What a nice guy for you!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks @knightrider. Yes, I think Smilie would approve. 

You're right @carshon, he may have a positive effect on Kodak. I am not giving up on her either. But I told my daughter, I am almost 50. I will only have so many good horses left in my life since I tend to keep them for life. Kodak can't be it for me, it's just not fair. I've tried everything with her, those who have seen me with her know it, and are all out of ideas. I will still do ground work with her, and may take her on the occasional trail ride once Rusty is used to his new surroundings. She will likely mellow with age too. So who knows... but with Rusty, I feel like I could go anywhere, and it is such a liberating feeling that I was almost in tears at the end of the ride. 

Thanks @Avna! Yes, I guess I'm an appy person now... well hopefully. He isn't home yet, and it's just a trial so I want to remain somewhat detached, but, well, it's pretty hard not to fall in love with this guy. He has an awesome personality! The appaloosa stubbornness (he's an F1 by the way) seems to translate into a boldness that I hadn't appreciated before. He certainly has a strong will, but we were able to successfully negotiate everything, and best of all, he is keen and interested in everything. I do hope he's the right horse for me. Time will tell.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Acadianartist said:


> I'd love to hear from @egrogan! Especially since our 2 hour trail ride yesterday was a blast! We have arranged a trial, and hope to bring him home on Saturday so this is happening! My contractor is finishing the third stall on Thursday.
> 
> I'll post more pics of him as soon as we get him home. But for now... meet Rusty! He is adventurous, lively, but totally unphased by scary things. If something spooks him, his reaction is to stop. Then go sniff it. Maybe try to lick it, lol. He's very curious. He does not feed off nervous energy. Even when the horse in front of us spooked, he didn't care. Has a lovely trot. The most in-your-face horse I've ever met! I will immediately begin ground work training with him to make sure he understands boundaries. If he doesn't work out, we just bring him back, but my gut feeling is that we will have lots of great adventures together for years to come. He will walk through anything boldly. No hesitation. Loves going on trail rides and will happily venture out on his own. In this photo, he is staring at the lake because he wants to go in it. I let him go walk on the edge a bit and he pawed at the water playfully. Apparently he likes to swim. I feel like a kid on Christmas eve.


Rusty looks to be lovely sounds perfect for what you want,look forward to pictures when you get him home. To bad smilie isn't here to see this, she would totally love rusty being he's her favorite breed appaloosa.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I would allow 2 horses to continue sharing the larger stall and paddock.

The new horse would get the small stall, in addition to the barn aisle. Less cleaning, if you drop hay at feeding time. I would like the new horse to have a separate paddock from the others- either by putting up electric fencing or something permanent. 

The water buckets need to go to the corners.

I would put hay outside unless there's bad weather. Moving hay outside decreases the risk of fighting in a tight space.

I like all my horses to be separated because their dry lots aren't really big areas. I put them together when out on the pasture. Sometimes i put two together, especially if they get along well. My old mare and my most submissive horse are best buddies and social groom. Those two can go together if need be.

Do your stalls open to the barn aisle? As that would provide an extra escape route, in which case the 3rd horse only gets his separate stall and paddock.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Just updating to say that the third stall has been finished, and the wall removed between the two side-by-side stalls. I did, however, save the boards and had my contractor make me a groove so I can slide the boards back in at anytime, creating two separate stalls again, should that be necessary. I feel this achieves the best of both worlds because I can now decide, based on how all three horses eventually interact, whether it's best to leave it open or not. It does create a huge space! Currently, Harley and Kodak are happily in there together, munching on haynets. Tomorrow we plan on bringing horse # 3 home.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Pics. Prince Harley thinks the new large stall is just for him. Just kidding, he did let Kodak in for the night and they both ate out of the haynets, which I do still need to move today. I may put Harley in the new, small stall for the night, but we'll see how things go today. I wish the new stall was bigger (it's about 9 x 10), but we won't use it except for nights when the weather is really bad. I'm glad I asked them to leave a space to rank hay bales. There is enough room for 12 easily, even more if I want to board up the dividing wall a little higher. That will allow me to have enough hay for a week, so I only have to go up to the loft to throw it down once a week. And it keeps the barn aisles neat and clear which I really like (so does my trimmer and vet). Not a fancy barn, but I love it!


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Harley approves!! The openness is very attractive, very nice stable


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

That's a cute barn!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks @AnitaAnne and @SilverMaple! I love my barn and it is suiting our needs perfectly. Everyone has adapted well to the open space of the double stall, and we are already establishing a new routine. 

So 5 days into Rusty's arrival, things could not be going any better! Here are some pics of the morning feeding. Harley and Kodak get fed in the big double stall, Rusty outside for now. I feed them in hierarchical order: Harley, Kodak, then Rusty, and each waits patiently for his ration. There is no pushing, no aggressiveness, nothing! I did make sure there was an abundance of hay the first couple of days to reduce the possibility that they would feel they have to compete. Harley now needs to go on a diet! All doors are now open 24/7 (I separated them for the first day, then just at night, but now they're all free to come and go), and I have seen all three get into the double stall, but mostly, Rusty stays outside, sometimes with Kodak who prefers it outside too. There is hay outside, and there are hay nets inside as well, so everyone has access. The third stall isn't getting used much, but does come in handy when I need to separate a horse like when the vet came yesterday. I think it will be a good spot to put Harley on those really cold nights when he needs a little more protection from the cold. He also seems to like it in there because he can nap quietly and let his guard down. He has asserted himself as herd leader, but it's tiring for a 19 year old, so taking breaks from the herd is good for him. Kodak and Rusty have really bonded so they happily share space. In fact, against all odds, Kodak is the calming influence here. She is almost always between the two geldings, diffusing tension between them. She just walks casually between them, head down, like it's purely accidental, but it happens so often that it is clearly intentional on her part. A mother instinct maybe? Who would have thought Kodak would be the calm one!

Ok, pics of our morning routine: breakfast, then they make their way to the back field single file, always in the same order. I could not be happier with how things have gone!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Happy Post! That is awesome. This just may be what Kodak needs to turn herself around.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

carshon said:


> Happy Post! That is awesome. This just may be what Kodak needs to turn herself around.


Quite possibly! She is exuding calm vibes right now, as if she senses this is what the two silly boys need to maintain some harmony. We may try a trail ride with all three horses, Kodak in the middle, to see how she is. I always thought that if she felt she had a herd around her, she'd be less spooky. We'll see...


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

TBH I would highly recommend NOT doing that setup. Simply put there is no extra room, 2 doors for 3 horses isn’t exactly making it any safer and you still have corners and a setup that will allow the horses to “guard” areas. As you know I have 5 horses at the moment and use runout stalls (same set up for 15 years with multiple horses) I see you got the new guy (congrats!!) and it is working so far, but thing are always good until they aren’t. You’ve only had them a few days and am surprised they are all in together but obviously it’s working. I just always worry about the what if’s, I think that setup will encourage all 3 to go in without making it any safer than one stall. When I introduce a new horse I shut the stalls off completely and then allow access to the stalls in the same way I integrate them into the herd (new horse only, new plus most submissive, etc). If you had the two I would say go for it, not with 3! 10x24 is not a lot of room and is very very narrow. anyways. I’m late to the party, and seems good so far, also nice to have it done and ready so you can adjust in the future. And congrats again!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> TBH I would highly recommend NOT doing that setup. Simply put there is no extra room, 2 doors for 3 horses isn’t exactly making it any safer and you still have corners and a setup that will allow the horses to “guard” areas. As you know I have 5 horses at the moment and use runout stalls (same set up for 15 years with multiple horses) I see you got the new guy (congrats!!) and it is working so far, but thing are always good until they aren’t. You’ve only had them a few days and am surprised they are all in together but obviously it’s working. I just always worry about the what if’s, I think that setup will encourage all 3 to go in without making it any safer than one stall. When I introduce a new horse I shut the stalls off completely and then allow access to the stalls in the same way I integrate them into the herd (new horse only, new plus most submissive, etc). If you had the two I would say go for it, not with 3! 10x24 is not a lot of room and is very very narrow. anyways. I’m late to the party, and seems good so far, also nice to have it done and ready so you can adjust in the future. And congrats again!



You know what? This is really sound advice. I can't disagree with it, and would probably never be so bold as to recommend what I have done to anyone. However, if you think of how horses live in the wild, and even about their own preferences, I think you'll find that large open (but seltered) spaces are better than stall confinement. I have three sensible horses that quickly established an order. I have the ability to change it back to three separate stalls in a matter of minutes. They know how to get in and out safely. They have companionship and shelter from the elements without confinement. I love the new setup, the horses do, and the vet was very impressed. So while it may be unconventional, it works for us. I'll be sure to come back and let you know if issues develop.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

I like the arrangement considering your prior set up it is definitely an improvement. Possibly all along Kodak wanted to be with Harley but was uncomfortable in the smaller stall...might be why she stood outside instead of going in her own stall. 

My barn has individual 10x12 stalls, but they have two doors one in front, one in back. I never see two horses in one together, but they do swap out who is in what stall until feeding time, then they go in their "assigned" stalls.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Not looking to comment on configuration, but just wanted to wish you a huge congratulations on your new addition!! Rusty is the cutest thing!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Zexious said:


> Not looking to comment on configuration, but just wanted to wish you a huge congratulations on your new addition!! Rusty is the cutest thing!


Thanks Zexious! He is still a baby at only 6, and is still on trial, but he's absolutely adorable, and totally reliable under saddle. In fact, it seems he loves trail rides which is what got me interested in him. He still acts like a kid with ADD, but is not scared of anything, so I'd say I'm pretty happy with him so far!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> You know what? This is really sound advice. I can't disagree with it, and would probably never be so bold as to recommend what I have done to anyone. However, if you think of how horses live in the wild, and even about their own preferences, I think you'll find that large open (but seltered) spaces are better than stall confinement. I have three sensible horses that quickly established an order. I have the ability to change it back to three separate stalls in a matter of minutes. They know how to get in and out safely. They have companionship and shelter from the elements without confinement. I love the new setup, the horses do, and the vet was very impressed. So while it may be unconventional, it works for us. I'll be sure to come back and let you know if issues develop.


"I think you'll find that large open (but seltered) spaces are better than stall confinement."

Exactly, my concern is that the setup mentioned isn't large at all. If it were say an open sided area, or a closed in but much larger area, I wouldn't be so concerned. Like I said it's big enough to encourage them to go in together without being any safer. However, it sounds like it's working well for you and while I would be reluctant with a new horse I also know which of my horses would be ok in that set up and not. The other day there were 3 in a my smaller stall (12x12?) not safe but...

So...if it ain't broke


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> "I think you'll find that large open (but seltered) spaces are better than stall confinement."
> 
> Exactly, my concern is that the setup mentioned isn't large at all. If it were say an open sided area, or a closed in but much larger area, I wouldn't be so concerned. Like I said it's big enough to encourage them to go in together without being any safer. However, it sounds like it's working well for you and while I would be reluctant with a new horse I also know which of my horses would be ok in that set up and not. The other day there were 3 in a my smaller stall (12x12?) not safe but...
> 
> So...if it ain't broke



No, it's not huge. But there are two ways in and out, and I have only small horses (all around 14.2). It's still going well! But I only took in Rusty because I thought his personality would work with my other two. They have a very clear hierarchy, and he is the goofy toddler at the bottom. He keeps annoying the other two, who put up for a while... then lose their patience and let him know his place. He's hilarious. 

I have hung three nets inside the 10 x 24 space, and there are two others outside. I often see all three inside, but one issue is that some of the nets are bigger or have slightly larger holes, and they tend to be the preferred nets. Harley usually gets dibs on those. As a result, I worry that Rusty and even Kodak aren't getting their share, and that Harley is getting too much, being the easy keeper that he is. So to address this issue, and also because it has been bitterly cold at night lately, I've been separating Harley from the other two for the night. He gets the third stall. And honestly, I think he's relieved to go in there and have some space to himself because the minute I put him in there, he goes to sleep. He has a haynet in there, but it's the one that is hardest to get hay out of. I then throw a little extra to Kodak and Rusty, who are happy to share the space. They will even eat out of the same haynet. 

Here's a photo of the two geldings with Kodak lurking behind them. They were sharing a hay feeder! And yes, we're in full blown winter here. Another 20 cms of the white stuff is forecast tomorrow. And NO, this is not normal for us! It's going to be a long winter. 

Other pics are of my daughter doing a science experiment for school (you can see Harley napping in the back stall). She is trying to show that horses can distinguish basic shapes. Rusty's pretty good at it, and is quite proud of himself! Or annoyed at me taking pictures, I can't tell... that face though! :rofl:


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I love it! and I think that we all work with what we have and your situation is working out nicely. Horses have tussles - even herds that have been together for years have tiffs. Rusty is super handsome and I am so happy he is fitting in so nicely


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

I love Rusty. I need a Rusty....


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

SilverMaple said:


> I love Rusty. I need a Rusty....


I call him trusty Rusty because you always know exactly what he's thinking! He does test the boundaries, but with him, what you see is what you get. Nothing complicated. And when you tell him he's gone too far, he respects it, and backs down. I don't doubt we will butt heads at times, but so far, I have not seen anything that fazes this guy. I sense we are going to have many adventures for years to come! He absolutely loves going out on trails, even by ourselves. He picks up a walk, and even a trot if I let him, and heads right into unknown trails without ever worrying about the monsters in the woods that my two other seem to see everywhere. If something is new to him, he may want to stop and look at it. Maybe smell it. Then he moves on. He has great endurance, and loves to go on and on. When I ride him, I still don't want it to end!

I do have to think about his training... and whether I should get a coach/trainer involved just to make sure we continue to teach good habits, and maybe some arena work. He already knows how to reach for the bit and collect so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to teach him more. We'll see. I have not yet made a final decision to keep him, but honestly, I can't see him going anywhere at this point. It's pretty hard not to fall in love with this guy!


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