# Critique of my lesson!



## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Hey guys! so i got my first lesson w my new trainer Ralph Hill and heres some videos of that lesson, im so excited we did great and we even jumped a little and i feel my confidence coming back as its been over a year since i last jumped! And about 6 years since my last lesson and we had only been back to riding for about 2 weeks before this lesson. Due to some injuries, i havent ridden since last Nov. Feel free to critque but we pretty much know where we need improvement and will be working on it!









ps. sorry for all the small videos- Boyfriend didnt really listen to my instructions... lol

trotting



cantering



jumping


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

achem... can i have your trainer???????


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

lol im greedy i dont like to share haha. He does clinics, i dont think he does personal lessons ne more.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Too bad he didn't tackle the hollowness issues your horse has.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Spyder said:


> Too bad he didn't tackle the hollowness issues your horse has.


wow... thanks Spyder... as i said this was our very first lesson in a LONG while and he was trying to get him to relax which is one of Peteys biggest issues.


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

Sometimes a trainer concentrates on one thing that they find most important, and then when that's settled, they move on to another issue. It's easier for the rider if they don't have to work with all their horse's issues all at once.


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## FreeDestiny (Jul 3, 2011)

At first I thought those were all pictures, I was like " does she really expect anything from this or...." then I clicked them and felt a little stupid. Your trainer sounds amazing and your lower leg is nice.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

FreeDestiny said:


> At first I thought those were all pictures, I was like " does she really expect anything from this or...." then I clicked them and felt a little stupid. Your trainer sounds amazing and your lower leg is nice.


thank you so much, i used to focus on my lower leg A LOT when i rode before. im glad it all hasnt gone away lol. now to work on keeping my arms up and relaxing my hips!


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## sophiekennykins (Aug 17, 2011)

Hey! your seat when you ride is really straight and the horse you rode has good confirmation. Try and make your leg less bashy x

Hope my answer helped, Sophie xxxxx


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm sry I'm confused of your meaning... thank you for the compliment of my horses confo
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

every time you rode by the Swedish looking oxer near the rail, i gasped a wee bit thinking you guys were going to try and jump it. haha! he's got some pretty serious fences in that arena.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Congrats on training with Ralph. He has a wonderfully positive approach in his training, and is VERY good.

He rode for a while at a farm where I was a working student (in the late 70's) in Florida. It was Bit-O-Luck farm with Tom Shires. Tell him I said HI! It was a long time ago......

I have not had a chance to watch all the vids, but I will.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Allison Finch said:


> Congrats on training with Ralph. He has a wonderfully positive approach in his training, and is VERY good.
> 
> He rode for a while at a farm where I was a working student (in the late 70's) in Florida. It was Bit-O-Luck farm with Tom Shires. Tell him I said HI! It was a long time ago......
> 
> I have not had a chance to watch all the vids, but I will.


 
Thanks Allison. Ill let him know, since his accident his memory is still not all there. But yes he is a great trainer and i LOVE him to death, i rode with his sister for a few years and thats how i met him. And its great training with him bc he used to ride my horse before i got him so he knows what we both need to get to where we need to go. Petey is not a naturally relaxed horse so thats what we're mainly working on now, he said there are a few minor things he wants to change with me as i get stronger, but Petey is a little more important right now.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Oxer said:


> every time you rode by the Swedish looking oxer near the rail, i gasped a wee bit thinking you guys were going to try and jump it. haha! he's got some pretty serious fences in that arena.


lol yes he does.. and he told me at some point(when we get there) we will be jumping that stuff lol. when he used to have my horse he said he did some grand prix schooling with him, Petey was going to be his next Advanced Level XCountry horse, he was pretty sure he was going to take him to Rolex.. which still may happen at some point!


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## nicole25 (Jun 24, 2011)

I was thinking the same thing about that ring. My crazyOTTB would freak out about all the stuff in there, he gets so excited when he sees jumps. Not to mention the random trees in the ring.

The only thing i did notice is that your horse doesnt have much bend into the corners. it seems like you have a great trainer and a ton of experience even after not riding for a year so i am sure that this is something that will happen along the road, it will help especially when you want to get into the jumping.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

nicole25 said:


> The only thing i did notice is that your horse doesn't have much bend into the corners.



The horse can't bend into any corner until the hollowness is resolved. This problem will limit the progress of this horse both in its jumping ability and suppleness to get around a course.

The other problem is that the rider's position can never be addressed until the horse they are riding is going correctly. Otherwise their position will always be compromised and I firmly believe that you allow a horse to continue is the wrong position, you are effectively training it to go in the wrong position.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Spyder said:


> The horse can't bend into any corner until the hollowness is resolved. This problem will limit the progress of this horse both in its jumping ability and suppleness to get around a course.
> 
> The other problem is that the rider's position can never be addressed until the horse they are riding is going correctly. Otherwise their position will always be compromised and I firmly believe that you allow a horse to continue is the wrong position, you are effectively training it to go in the wrong position.


 
hence why we're training and taking lessons... u cant expect a miracle after one lesson! yes he is stiff and doesnt bend but like i said it was only our first lesson after 10 months off, and before that there wasnt a lot of consistent riding due to my work schedule. we were focusing on relaxing him bc you cant have bend or work on the hollowness if your horse isnt relaxed... so now that he's beginning to relax the next lesson will be working on the hollowness and bending and then we will also be working on my position, which im also doing at home as well. 

Im going to go by what my trainer is telling me as he is an accomplished 4* eventing rider and trainer and my horse was under his training for about a year and doing schooling Advanced level jumps and working on dressage... he has a natural jumping ability with power and scope but has issues on his flatwork due to being abused before my trainer or i got him and due to having a broken wither in his past so we have to go about working and training him a little bit differently.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Hidalgo13 said:


> It's easier for the rider if they don't have to work with all their horse's issues all at once.


You know what drives me bonkers, is when riders point fingers at the horse and it's all about the "horses issues"

Our horses reflect 100% of what we do in the saddle, or lack there of. Instead of blaming the horse and the "horses issues" why not stop and look at the rider. 

As Ian Millar says "A good rider blames themselves, a poor rider blames their horse"

So if the horse is upside down, stiff and not flexable - look at the rider! You have to be correct, for the horse to be correct. You have to be put together and using yourself properly, in order for your horse to use themselves properly. Your out, your horse is out.

I lose respect for riders, when they blame their horses. As Reiner Klimke says "It isn't our horses job to understand our language, it is our job to understand theirs so that we can be as clear as we possibly can, so that they can answer us to the best of their abilities."


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

sorry... I know that's what it sounded like, but I didn't mean for it to sound like it was all her horses fault and she was a perfect rider. I completely agree with you MIEventer that we shouldn't blame the horse. What I wanted to say was they had a bunch of things to work on, and it's easier for them to concentrate on one thing rather than try to get everything right all at once. Thank you for pointing it out. I was very wrong in my wording.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

It's ok Hidalgo, and thank you for clarifying. No hard feelings. 

You are right, there is only 1 thing that the coach can work on, even same goes at clinics. 

On that note, I firmly believe that the coach has to correct the rider, before the horse can reflect.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

i'm sorry... can someone explain "hollow" for me? i can't quite picture what a "hollow" horse would look like.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

Oxer said:


> i'm sorry... can someone explain "hollow" for me? i can't quite picture what a "hollow" horse would look like.


 
Hollow is when a horse carries their head high with their nose sticking out. It results with the horse making its back go down instead of rounded like it should be.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

jumanji321 said:


> Hollow is when a horse carries their head high with their nose sticking out. It results with the horse making its back go down instead of rounded like it should be.


a horse can be hollow even w their head being down, a horse that is hollow is one that is not engaging its highend and pushing its back up


Peteys issue is that he's not completely hollow lol he's like half way hollow he pushes with his butt and his back is up some but not where it should be, but then again its very difficult to get a horse to do this and takes time and work. a lot of horses you can do long and low to build up the back muscles... we are trying this but he's not a big fan.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

FoxyRoxy1507 said:


> u cant expect a miracle after one lesson! yes he is stiff and doesnt bend but like i said it was only our first lesson after 10 months off, and before that there wasnt a lot of consistent riding due to my work schedule. we were focusing on relaxing him bc you cant have bend or work on the hollowness if your horse isnt relaxed... so now that he's beginning to relax the next lesson will be working on the hollowness and bending and then we will also be working on my position, which im also doing at home as well.
> 
> .



I am not questioning your trainer credentials but I would NEVER have asked for a lesson if the horse has been off for 10 months.

And yes relaxing will help with any horse that is going hollow but from the first video to the last, I really didn't see any relaxation. Maybe partly due to the layoff length but also NO stretching exercises were show in any video...all I saw was a horse that remained stiff throughout and in spite of this you decided to jump him anyways....again after 10 months off. Not something I would ask or expect from the problems this horse has and the layoff length.

The section you are posting is thread IS the CRITIQUE section and I am giving you an honest critique. Take or dismiss whatever you want.


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## nicole25 (Jun 24, 2011)

After watching the video of you jumping (now it may have just been the video) it looks like after you land the jump and your horse starts cantering that you are leaning a bit forward with your shoulders.


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## brackenbramley (May 29, 2011)

ah must have been really lovely after a break  well done you two  x


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Spyder said:


> The other problem is that the rider's position can never be addressed until the horse they are riding is going correctly. Otherwise their position will always be compromised and I firmly believe that you allow a horse to continue is the wrong position, you are effectively training it to go in the wrong position.


Spyder, I have to say I am baffled by your responses on this thread. Your initial one line response seemed to have no more motivation than to blow the OP out of the water after what she described as a successful start with her new trainer. Couldn't that comment have been more constructive?

In response to your "hollow" comment, you more than anyone knows that a horse cannot build the muscles necessary to carry itself properly overnight and you expect it to take place on the first lesson after a long layoff? Again, I'm lost. 

With your above comment, doesn't the rider's position need to be effective before the horse can carry itself properly? I was always taught that the horse is a mirror image of our position. If the riders is impeding the horse's movement, how in the world is it supposed to move properly? How many of us have had problems while riding our horses that were magically solved once our instructor hopped on and corrected the problem instantly since they had better position awareness? Looks like the OP has chosen to work on the rider's position and is planning on addressing the horse next. 

Yes, perhaps jumping after a long layoff might not make much sense, but this was her first lesson with him. Maybe he wanted to see what he was working with so he could devise a plan moving forward?

OP, looks like a good start. I'm glad you clicked well with your new instructor. That's always a good thing!


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Thank you MyBoyPuck, my trainer is very well of what my horse can and cannot do as he used to ride my horse before I got him and he knows what Petey needs. As far as the jumping too soon, its a small jump and it doesn't bother him at all, he's one of the first horses I've ever met that jumping relaxes him and is a def reward for him  my idea of taking a lesson so soon after a layoff was so that we could start correctly from the beginning bc Petey is a VERY difficult horse. I've know Ralph for a while and watched some of his clinics but never had personal lessons w/ him so now that I am I am ECSTATIC! 


THANK YOU to all of you for your positive comments, for me coming this far, tho it may seem small for others is very accomplishing w this horse. He was so abused and had issues, he was lame for a long time and vets couldn't fig it out cuz they kept looking at his feet and legs, (found out he had broken wither that was irritated) that he was supposed to b a pasture pet for the rest of his life which is why he went from Ralph to my trainer ah gave him to me! So coming from that to where we are and now w a trainer that can help us progress is such an amazing feeling! Not to mention I've heard the horror stories of how no one else could ride him bc he had such an attitude and was picky about who rode him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree with Ralph's approach. SLOW!! You need to get the horse back into shape slowly to build the muscles SLOWLY. Some people are just too impatient. I would likely not have asked very much more either on the first lesson. 

Ralph is patient and THOROUGH. He will not have you grab and kick on a horse so out of shape. 

As for the jumps...Phoey! Those little jumps are no more than the bucks he makes when romping in the pasture. I would have had you pop over a few too, probably. Again, nothing to argue about.

Trust Ralph. I have seen him ride and train and he will steer you well. People on this forum do not know you or the horse, so take all comments with a certain grain of salt.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

MyBoyPuck said:


> Spyder, I have to say I am baffled by your responses on this thread. Your initial one line response seemed to have no more motivation than to blow the OP out of the water after what she described as a successful start with her new trainer. Couldn't that comment have been more constructive?


No it was an comment to describe what I thought was lacking and never saw it addressed in any of the videos.



> In response to your "hollow" comment, you more than anyone knows that a horse cannot build the muscles necessary to carry itself properly overnight and you expect it to take place on the first lesson after a long layoff? Again, I'm lost.


Very true, muscles need to be built up but to ride a stiff horse forward expecting that riding forward alone will build up muscles when those muscles are stiff will NEVER get a relaxed horse to where those muscles can be enacted on.

What I am saying that you cannot expect a 100 meter sprinter to do any sort of credible job by just getting in the starting gate and running. No way will that person's muscles benefit without stretching and getting those muscles READY before work is asked of them. The OP already said her horse doesn't like to stretch so there is where the problem lies. It is far easier to work on stuff that they both like even if in the long run it is not the best road. Working on the basics is ALWAYS the key to further learning.



> With your above comment, doesn't the rider's position need to be effective before the horse can carry itself properly? I was always taught that the horse is a mirror image of our position. If the riders is impeding the horse's movement, how in the world is it supposed to move properly? How many of us have had problems while riding our horses that were magically solved once our instructor hopped on and corrected the problem instantly since they had better position awareness? Looks like the OP has chosen to work on the rider's position and is planning on addressing the horse next.


If the horse is stiff it will AUTOMATICALLY throw off the position of the rider. So while work on the rider is important that position will NEVER be corrected if the horse is going hollow as that hollowness will ALWAYS throw the rider into a position of trying to align itsef with a horse that is NOT going symmetrically. I would have liked to have seen work of BOTH the horse and rider together because they are not two separate things but intertwined. You cannot separate the horse's position from the rider's by saying we are working on one thing at a time. Do without the jumping and spend more time on loosening up the horse would have been the way I would have gone.



> Yes, perhaps jumping after a long layoff might not make much sense, but this was her first lesson with him. Maybe he wanted to see what he was working with so he could devise a plan moving forward?


Saying that jumping with a but it was the first lesson is what makes no sense at all. The OP admits the horse is not going correctly and that is so evident when you see the horse landing and totally unbalanced after the jump. This would be the same as free jumping a 3 year old over a four foot jump for the first time ever because, well the horse can jump it.


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