# HELP...Crosby Sovereign Advice Please



## JollyRider (Dec 19, 2019)

Hi I'm brand new to HF & really need my fellow equestrians to lend knowledge & experience to a rider who's just getting back into her passion after being away from it for 20 years. I grew up riding in the Crosby PDN days, which is what I rode in & owned from childhood to early 20's, so that's what I know & trust. I was overwhelmed with all the tracings & measurements I heard about in order to fit the OTTB I recently adopted. Gone are the days of one saddle fitting a variety of horses is what I was told lol.
So I went back to my PDN roots & started looking online for a nice used wool flocked Crosby Close Contact. I read about Used Crosbys on COTH, HA, HF, etc & became interested in The Sovereign several pancake saddle lovers raved about.
I found one on Ebay & it has visible little nailheads on the underside of the pommel that follow the curve that sits over the withers. Is this normal or has this saddle been refurbished? Also the billet straps are sewn to a piece of light tan fabric that comes out from in between the flaps. It looks different than I remember & of course I want to make sure they saddle is authentic & safe. I don't need the billet straps giving out while doing any type of riding!!!
Below pictures show my concerns. Please give me your 👍 or 👎 opinion of what you see in the pictures. Thank you 🐴❤


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Hi Joy and Welcome to the Forum.

I too am from the days of PDN and "flat" saddles...
No knee and thigh roll to keep your leg in-position...
You learned to ride with correct position or you learned how to eat dirt when your support base was weak...
A different kind of rider we were at that age....

So, the material billets are attached to I've seen before, but not so prominent as that...
My one saddle is similar to this but much higher in the inner support of the saddle itself so not so visible.
The nail heads...depends how they feel and how that tree racks in your hand.
This should be a spring tree, able to fit the range of horses that today's saddles don't.
What bothers me more is the missing nail and that the nails still their, the leather looks like it was reset,...pulled, stretched and re-nailed.
Was the tree damaged, was the tree repaired, was the tree replaced...but something not quite correct.
If you can't put your hands on that saddle directly and handle, check and with hands-on inspection...
think I would pass.
The brand and model are nice saddles but not if there is a issue with it...
Older saddles with the plain flap are cheap...often $400 or less by me in good/great condition.
If me, I would keep looking. 
:runninghorse2:...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

What is "PDN"?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> What is "PDN"?


Prix de Nations...
















!st picture is a PDN
2nd picture is a PDN, the Sovereign model.
Side by side they are slightly different


I grabbed both those pictures from Ebay listings...
Many saddles were listed, none higher than $495 of those I saw and most were in the $200 or less category..
Once you introduced the Millers name with Crosby is where prices go crazy...not sure why either!
:runninghorse2:...


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## JollyRider (Dec 19, 2019)

tinyliny said:


> What is "PDN"?


PDN is the abbreviation for a specific saddle model. It stands for Prix Des Nations, which is a no frills, plain flap close contact saddle. They were made in England by Crosby made from the 1970's until approximately 2000-2001, when Exselle bought them out. They were a very popular saddle in their day, as they fit a wide variety of horses with different body types without changing tree width, gullet, etc. I grew up riding with them & they are my go-to. Hope that helps a little.


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## JollyRider (Dec 19, 2019)

That's too funny, I've been looking at that Sovereign on Ebay. IYO, does it look to be in better condition than the model I showed you?


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## JollyRider (Dec 19, 2019)

Thank you for your feedback...my gut is telling me something is off with this Sovereign. Also, there's no letter on the near side stirrup bar to indicate the tree width, which is odd because every other authentic Crosby I've owned, used or looked at has an N, M or W on it. Its It's almost like this saddle has been rebuilt using random pieces lol. I'm gonna take your advice & pass on it.
Thank you & Happy Holidays


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I don't know from where you are, state that is...
By me, the local Craigslist {Farm & Garden} often has a nice selection of "flat" saddles of various names and styles. 
If you stay in the "plain flap" they are cheaper $ and if of this vintage many were actually very well taken care of and have years of use left. 
Anything newer today I look at :think: .... 
Craftsmanship, workmanship and leather hide quality have changed so much...

Enjoy the search.
:runninghorse2:...


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