# Barefoot Trimming vs. Shoes



## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Okay i have recently rescued a tb from the slaughter house. i normally don't do that sort of thing for just any horse but this one came with a story and a heartbreaking backround that i just had to help her. she is a navicular horse and was badly shod in the past which led to her condition. she has been shod pretty much all her life and she is 11 now. what i wanted to ask was: she is currently on shoes but she is not very sound and currently unridable. i was wondering if barefoot trimming would help her at all. not neccessarily to be ridden but just so that she can be comfortable. i know this is a very controversial subject but i wanted to know what you guys thought and what you do with your own horses. also, if anyone out there has a navicular horse or knows about the disease, what are your thoughts??? Thanks, taylor


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Hi Taylor99. My horse is currently barefoot, and I plan to keep her that way. I did have shoes on her for a week, but that was the barn owner's fault, and I guess mine too. But in that week, her feet were extremely sore, and her legs were rather cold. I did not ride her for that week, so i dont know how it affected her gaits. But i read an article and i found it to be highly helpful. Here's the website address. http://www.thenakedhoof.com.au/html/purposepage.htm

I don't really know anything about navicular disease. Have you tried googling it?


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## sparky (Dec 14, 2006)

Next time she is due to have her feet done, ask your farrier what he thinks. Freckles came to me with his front hooves shod because he had a bad dip in one hoof. I was told there was no point in keeping them on him, so he took them off and his dip has cleared up we haven't had a problem. 

But ask your farrier for his opinion, generally TB's have crappy feet.


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## LukeyD (Sep 25, 2007)

Yes, most TB's hooves aren't very good, but my boy's hooves are really hard and healthy. He's barefoot and has been barefoot since he was 3. (He's now 5). My farrier says he's wearing his feet perfectly and that his frogs are nice and heathly. I guess it depends on the TB, huh? :wink: I agree, your farrier should know what's best for your mare. And bless you for taking her in.


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## KANSAS_TWISTER (Feb 23, 2007)

i was given a bay mare that had it, the owner hunted her to the point that she couldn't walk any more and gave her to me, i had her bare foot for the 3 months that i had her and was even looking in to having her de nerved so that she could be a lot more comfertable, after a 3 month brake with me the owner came back and took her and sold her ...she told me that she was selling her as a broodmare.....she wasn't so lucky in the end, i know who she sold her too and the poor mare went to slaughter. do you have her on bute?


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

First of all, let me just say that I think it's wonderful that you rescued this horse. I would love to do the same thing one day.

A lot of people think that if a horse has laminitis or navicular that you need "special" shoes. I personally don't agree with that. We have a friend who's TWH got laminitis and she did Pete Ramey's barefoot trim and he was all better within a few months. Of course she got him boots so that he felt more comfortable.

Personally, I will never shoe any horse I own ever again, no matter what breed. Some say this is a selfish act on my part. I just brush that off because I KNOW that Pete Ramey's barefoot trim WORKS! I've seen it work for TB's, appys, QH's, TWH's, standardbreds, andalusions, drafts, arabs, morabs, just to name a few. If done CORRECTLY, a horse will be able to go barefoot. The transition period may take awhile because the hoof may have to heal from poor shoeing or poor trimming, but we need to give the horse that time. 

I would not suggest all "natural barefoot trims" or whatever you want to call it. Like Strasser, or however you spell it. I think that method slaughters horse's feet, and I have personally seen MANY, MANY horses been put down after years of torture. 

I WOULD suggest Pete Ramey or Jamie Jackson. Do a google search on them if you want. But I would suggest keeping your horse barefoot. It's healthier for their hooves.


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks to everyone who posted.  

It seems that barefoot may be the way to go with this mare but I will defintately consult my farrier to see what he thinks.

She is currently not on bute, but she is on ixosuprine which is a blood thinner to help circulation around the navicular bone.

I definately want to read more up on the disease and check out some testimonials by owners who have horses with it.

I was wondering what is the difference between all natural barefoot trimming and other barefoot trimming?

I am growing to love this mare more and more each day because she is in a lot of pain at the moment, but she is so trusting and has the kindest eye about her. I am desperate to help her but the farrier is coming out soon to evaluate her so i hope things will start improving then. Thanks again! 

(P.S. KANSAS_TWISTER: that is so horrible that that happened to the mare you had!! you must have felt so bad for her! i can't imagine having to watch a horse that i cared for go to slaughter! so sad!!


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks to everyone who posted.  

It seems that barefoot may be the way to go with this mare but I will defintately consult my farrier to see what he thinks.

She is currently not on bute, but she is on ixosuprine which is a blood thinner to help circulation around the navicular bone.

I definately want to read more up on the disease and check out some testimonials by owners who have horses with it.

I was wondering what is the difference between all natural barefoot trimming and other barefoot trimming?

I am growing to love this mare more and more each day because she is in a lot of pain at the moment, but she is so trusting and has the kindest eye about her. I am desperate to help her but the farrier is coming out soon to evaluate her so i hope things will start improving then. Thanks again! 

(P.S. KANSAS_TWISTER: that is so horrible that that happened to the mare you had!! you must have felt so bad for her! i can't imagine having to watch a horse that i cared for go to slaughter! so sad!!  )


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

sorry hit the button twice lol :lol:


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

My friends got ottb couple years back. With horrible hoofs. They are barefoot tactic believers, so they took off the shoes. When I was looking at this horse 8 months later he had one of the nicest hoofs I've seen. Both mine go barefoot as well. It's worth to try, I think!

Good luck with your horse!!


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## emilou423 (Oct 6, 2007)

there is no absolute answer for anything. nobody on this forum can say truthfully whether shoes of any kind or barefoot of any kind will definitely help your horse since they have never met the horse nor seen any diagnostics. (just my two cents and a reminder that the only absolute in life is death.)

that said, navicular is some sort of crack or hole in the navicular bone that floats at the rear of the hoof attatched only by tendons (which pull on the bone every time the horse takes a step). and every time the horse puts weight on the affected hoof the bone is painfully compressed. 
the horse's chances for comfort depend heavily on the extent of damage to the navicular bone. the best way to determine the actual present damage is x-rays. your veterinarian should take x-rays of the navicular bone and rank the crack(s) for your farrier (there is an established ranking system, so your farrier should know exactly what the vet means by a certain rank) who can then determine the best course of action for your horse.


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## Flying B (Jul 4, 2007)

If your horse is acting sore then I would shoe her, if you ride on a lot of black top then I would shoe her and if there are a lot of rocks then I would think about shoeing her, not all horses need shoes.


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

At this point i could care less if she's able to be ridden or not i just want her to be able to walk around in the paddock without pain.

It would be nice if eventually she'd be able to be lightly ridden but my arenas are sand and dirt mixed and there really aren't any hard surfaces that she's have to come in contact with.

I'll keep reading up on the diease and the bast way to go as far as the hooves are concerned.

Thanks for your input


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Congrats; I love hearing about rescues as well; very nice. 
My horse is barefoot; & I see nothing wrong with it. I never had any problems.  It's actually healthy for their hooves. 
Anyway, good luck with her I hope she continues to do well.


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Thanks  I hope so too. She deserves it


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

The difference between a "natural" trim and a regular trim are based on several things. A lot of farriers (not all) will take the sole off a horse, just as if they were about to put a shoe on. This is the worst thing you can do because the horse probably will be sore because all that calloused sole he worked so hard for is now gone. We have to leave the sole alone. Also, a lot of farriers will not put a "mustang roll" on the toe. The mustang roll will help prevent chipping, cracking, and flarring. It will also start to help the hooves become more concave and not flat. If you go on to Pete Ramey's website you will see pics of how horse's hooves should look like. GORGEOUS feet!! Sometimes farriers leave the hooves too long or the heels too high. A lot of horses will develop the "long toe, under-run heel" syndrome.


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Taylor99 said:


> Okay i have recently rescued a tb from the slaughter house. i normally don't do that sort of thing for just any horse but this one came with a story and a heartbreaking backround that i just had to help her. she is a navicular horse and was badly shod in the past which led to her condition. she has been shod pretty much all her life and she is 11 now. what i wanted to ask was: she is currently on shoes but she is not very sound and currently unridable. i was wondering if barefoot trimming would help her at all. not neccessarily to be ridden but just so that she can be comfortable. i know this is a very controversial subject but i wanted to know what you guys thought and what you do with your own horses. also, if anyone out there has a navicular horse or knows about the disease, what are your thoughts??? Thanks, taylor


I have not had the misfortune to have a horse who suffers from extreme heel pain. I do have a friend who is my trimmer(and a very good one) who does help horses who are diagnosed with navicular. She is currently working on another(mutual) friends gelding with this. My answer is YES, a good correct Barefoot trim will certainly help any hoof pathology. Help is out there! You can always use the hoof boots to help keep the horse comfortable during the transistion and at any time necessary. Booting makes the hoof care much more productive as it causes no further stress to the hoofwall or internal structures. They can be removed and put on as needed, trimmed often to help the hoof heal faster and to assess the condition. 

My favorite barefoot group is the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/barefoothorsecare/list at Yahoo. There may be a trimmer near you.. Check it out.


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Okay i consulted my farrier and he said it would be a good idea for us to take the shoes off so we did and she is really sore at the moment but he said it would take time for her to get used to it.

He is a barefoot trimmer as well as shoes, he believes that certain horses need shoes and others don't so we'll see how she does with it.

I'm excited to see how she reacts in a couple of weeks when it starts to kick in. i hope all goes well with this mare! she is my pride and joy at the moment. my other horse just died at the age of 33 right before i got her. i reared and raised him myself when i was 15 and it tore me apart when he passed so Marcie (that's the tb mare) is filling a hole. i have 18 other horses but she's extra special.

thanks everyone for your help and support!


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Yeah i asked my farrier about the "natural" trim and he is against it as well. Marcie isn't being trimmed this way he said exactly what you said about it. her hooves look just right at the moment

thanks!!


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear about your other horse, but he sure was lucky to have you! I hope everything goes well with Miracle! Have fun with her


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Thank you so much! i will she's great


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Okay this is what my night was like:
you guys are not gonna believe this.
so i go out to feed my horses and i notice little Marcie laying down so i'm like okay maybe her feet are a llittle sore from being trimmed and she's just resting. (this was the first time i've seen her lay down since i've had her and i watch her like a hawk).

i walk out to where she is laying and she gets up and puts her head on my shoulder. this is what she does every time i walk up to her now. she's my baby  

so anyway i put her halter on and bring her in to the barn where her grain is waiting. okay, no problem so far.

she walks into the stall and i sit beside the stall door and watch her because all my others are already eating so i'm just killing time.

all of a sudden what do i see happen just behind her rib cage?

A KICK!!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: 

or what seems like a kick anyway!! it happened twice more after that and by this time i was knocked off my feet with shock!

is she pregnant??? i have no idea but it sure seems like it!!

when i first got her she was only slightly underweight but she's fattened up a lot by now. but don't you only see kicks when they're at least 7 months along???!!!???

if she's pregnant that's great but i mean with her feet and everything is it okay? and i don't want a baby in the cold winter months!! the vet is coming out first thing tomorrow and i will be monitoring marcie tomorrow to see if i see the so-called kick again!

can you believe this! excited but anxious to know if it's true! :shock: :shock:


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks for the naked hoof site I spent way too much time on there and about ran my printer out of paper  Our girls have always been barefoot but a recent trip to SE Oklahoma and 3 days on very rocky trails had us having second thoughts. I think we were more worried than necessary their hooves look fine. 
Taylor hope your rescue horse is doing better and congrats on the foal if Marcie is preggers


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

False alarm she's not in foal


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Taylor99 said:


> False alarm she's not in foal


I guess thats a good thing, I know what you mean about having babies in the winter. I wouldn't want to do it. Plus with her health issues its for the best.


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## Taylor99 (Sep 23, 2007)

Just an update on Marcie:

she is still sore but she seems to be getting used to barefoot.
the farrier is coming out tomorrow to evaluate her progress and if she needs it give her a little trim, but i don't think she will because she needs time to adjust to no shoes.

i'll keep you guys posted


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## mell (Sep 5, 2007)

appylover31803 said:


> Hi Taylor99. My horse is currently barefoot, and I plan to keep her that way. I did have shoes on her for a week, but that was the barn owner's fault, and I guess mine too. But in that week, her feet were extremely sore, and her legs were rather cold. I did not ride her for that week, so i dont know how it affected her gaits. But i read an article and i found it to be highly helpful. Here's the website address. http://www.thenakedhoof.com.au/html/purposepage.htm
> 
> I don't really know anything about navicular disease. Have you tried googling it?


If your horse doesn't normally wear shoes then of course she's going to be sore in the first week


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

> If your horse doesn't normally wear shoes then of course she's going to be sore in the first week


That is quite obvious that she would be sore. And i don't know if she's ever had shoes. I don't know what her first owner did. I didn't expect her to be ok, but would you also think that in that first week her back legs would swell up? I have seen horses have shoes put on for the first time, but i never saw any like my horse. She refused to pick up her feet because she was in pain. After that, i let her be and got her shoes taken off the very next week


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

It is also very possible the farrier cut her too short and/or took off too much sole(any that is not flaking is too much) . Then the shoes would be pressing on the sensitive sole around the toe area. When you take off those shoes of course the too short still exists.. I'd boot her and or wrap them up with some kind of padding for a bit. 

If this has already been covered ignore me.. I'm too lazy this am to look back up the thread.


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## emilou423 (Oct 6, 2007)

there is no reason for a horse to be sore after shoeing or trimming unless the horse has an ailment of the hoof/leg that was not adressed, or something was changed too severely.
there should especially not be swelling in the legs. swelling could indicate that the angle of the hoof was changed too severely and it strained the tendons on the leg. (ie: if the angle was made too shallow the tendons on the back of the leg will be stretched excessively, and if the angle is too steep the tendons on the front of the leg can be strained and the coffin bone can experience unusual pressure.)


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## palomino1978 (Sep 28, 2007)

appyt- thanks for the group name, I just put on there to join!!!


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## Appyt (Oct 14, 2007)

Awesome! I hope you enjoy it as much as I do. Tip, either read on the site or do the digests(i do that) cuz they are a busy board for email delivery.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

RIght now my gelding is barefoot and having a difficult time. He has to wear shoes in the front with heal cocks and flat in the back. If shoeing is what caused the problem then there could be a good chance that barefoot can help her. If you dont plan on riding then that may be the best thing you can do for her. All you can do is try and see and see what your farrier says.


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## Jojo (Oct 26, 2007)

I happen to believe that any horse can go barefoot if given the time to heal from whatever damage the shoes have done. Shoes are a medieval invention, designed to keep horses hooves from falling apart when the castle was underseige and they were stuck in wet mushy stalls for weeks

I also think the Strasser trim isn't horrible. I think, though, it only works on horses who already have good barefoot feet. My horses have been trimmed by someone trained in the Strasser method for years, although she's changed it a little bit so that it's gentler. Their feet are great, even if I don't have them timmed for 6 months, they're fine.


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