# Stopping with your seat?



## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

I usually riase my energy level so rena will collect Into the halt, I just stop my seat and think of not letting her through, it might take a little while for your horse to understand, so just keep on practicing!! Sorry, someone else will probably be able to explain better.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

I dunno about stopping with your seat, but I am teaching my three year old to stop the way his sires owner teaches his horses... when we want them to stop, we push our legs forwards near the horses shoulders and say 'whoa up' or 'hoooe'...


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

I think it means sitting deeper in your seat....I know it works for Ice, just like picking myself up out of the seat/shifting my weight forward makes him change gaits. I ride western as well, so it was kind of weird at first, but now I just think about stopping and put my weight straight down. But in general, leaning forward usually means "go" because you're essentially "opening up the door" for them to go forward. And the reverse works for backing.

Or at least thats what I've heard. It seems to work for me, so I don't question it ;p


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

If she has been ridden for very long with zero seat cues, then she likely has no idea what you are expecting of her. I would work on it like anything else. Sit deep, lean back just a smidge if you feel the need, maybe move your feet a little forward. Then at the same time, use her current stop cue (whether it is voice or reins). Just keep doing that every time you ask for the stop then slowly start doing seat first, then regular cue after if she doesn't respond. It shouldn't take too terribly long. I have been working on that with Dobe and he has almost dumped me a time or two. I have never ridden with my seat before and apparently, he is picking it up faster than I am cause I inadvertantly sat deep the other day while looking off the side at something and he drug his butt to a stop and I almost fell off. Needless to say, he got praised and I got a saddle horn to the belly to remind me to pull my head out of my butt.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Copied from another thread I posted in. This is my way of doing it:

I have three 'seats', I suppose you could say. A neutral seat, a blocking seat, and an open seat. 

*Neutral Seat* - What I use when travelling, and not asking for anything, i.e. we are at my desired speed/impulsion and I just want it maintained. I try to sit quietly, absorb the shock of movement up through my core, and let my legs kind of 'hang' down and around my horse. I only move/change from this seat when I need to ask something, wether it be a lengthen, shorten, stop, turn, etc.

*Blocking Seat* – This is the seat/action I use when I need to shorten, transition down, make an abrupt turn, or a dead stop. What I am asking for determines the strength of the ‘block’. This one is the hardest to explain… It’s almost like ‘closing’ your pelvis. I kind of ‘contract’ my position… I contract my core muscles, and my thighs contract around my saddle while my heel pulls down to give me security in whatever I’m about to do. I also kind of rotate my pelvis forward which in turn puts more weight in my seat and puts a bit of a ‘hunch’ in my back, not enough that you can see, but enough that I become heavier on the horses back and it also gives me a bit more security in a fast turn or fast stop. So basically my whole body contracts and ‘blocks’ forward movement. However, I only ever do this for one step, except in the case of a back-up. I always pre-empt the block with a half halt so my horse is ready. I use this softly for a shorten, stronger for a downward transition and a back up, and stronger still for an abrupt stop. When I use this for a turn, I use the block to arrest forward motion for a second, and then cue the turn. For a back up, I start at a halt, and move into my blocking seat rhythmically, kind of like you would bump your horse with your legs. To end the back-up, I return to a neutral seat. If a horse doesn’t understand the block, I always start at a walk, and ask for a halt with the seat, and follow up with the rein. Eventually they learn to follow the seat.

*Open Seat* – What I use when asking for lengthen, upward transitions, etc. It is kind of the opposite of the blocking seat. I ‘open up’ my pelvis, which allows my legs to stretch longer, and straighten my core without becoming rigid, and open up my shoulders. It makes me lighter in the saddle, as well as presenting a lot of forward energy to the horse. I use this lightly for lengthen, a bit stronger for an upward transition, and stringer again for transitions like walk/canter, halt/canter, and then to an extreme when I’m gaming/cow chasing for an abrupt halt/gallop. I also use this to power out of sharp turn such as rollbacks and haunch turns.

And a clearer explanation of the sensation of a 'blocking seat':

I may have a good visual for what wild spot calls a blocking seat. Sit in a chair, quickly suck in your stomach. You'll feel your butt tuck under you. I believe that's what she's taking about. If you ride a lot of half halts using your blocking seat correctly, your stomach muscles should ache when you're finished riding.


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

Here's a video that I really found helpful. (hope the thing works, let me know if it doesn't, sorry)




 
Jane Savoie basically reiterates and demonstrates the different seats from wild_spot's post.


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## Survalia (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh, God bless you for these wonderful explanations and examples! I absolutely mean no disrespect to anyone on this forum, because I know that some people are just better at explaining than others, but I get so FRUSTRATED when I read answers like, "Well, it just can't be explained -- you have to feel it," or "You have no business doing that until you have learned how (with the implication that if you don't already know how, it certainly can't be explained to you)," or "Get yourself to a trainer/lessons!" More than once I have wondered if I should just throw in the towel because I am obviously too dense to be on a horse. And I certainly would have -- long ago, except that the horses I ride don't treat me as if I am stupid at all. They are very, very patient and loving, and don't seem to mind if we have to work on the same things over and over again. God bless them, too.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I taught my horse to stop by seat alone in about 20 minutes. We started at the walk. I'd get him going on a nice free walk, leave the reins loose and make sure I'm following along with my seat without any tension, or at least as little as possible. To cue him to stop, I would stretch my upper body up, shoulders back, tuck my pelvis under a little, stop following the motion, and the magic piece of the puzzle was to close my thighs. The first few times, he didn't know what I was doing up there, so I had to use the reins immediately after closing my thighs. After about 4 times, he began to understand what stilling my seat meant and would at least slow down his walk. I'd still use the reins for the complete stop. A few more tries he was stopping on the closed thigh cue, no reins. Once he got it at walk, we moved onto trot and canter. He had it all down in no time. I practice it a few times almost every ride while he's cooling out. He's gotten so tuned into what I'm doing up there, that all I have to do is close my thighs now and he responds. Pretty much it's whatever you and your horse agree are acceptable cues and to practice it until you have complete cooperation. It's a very fun thing to teach to your horse.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

i ususally have to also block my mares shoulder with my upper leg a little, as well as block with my seat, she slows down and it helps her transition down better, but ive never gotten her to stop with it yet. you should always, always be riding with your seat, your hands should help guide, but dont rely on them to do all the riding, or else you could end up with a heavy or resistant horse.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

MyBoyPuck said:


> I taught my horse to stop by seat alone in about 20 minutes. We started at the walk. I'd get him going on a nice free walk, leave the reins loose and make sure I'm following along with my seat without any tension, or at least as little as possible. To cue him to stop, I would stretch my upper body up, shoulders back, tuck my pelvis under a little, stop following the motion, and the magic piece of the puzzle was to close my thighs. The first few times, he didn't know what I was doing up there, so I had to use the reins immediately after closing my thighs. After about 4 times, he began to understand what stilling my seat meant and would at least slow down his walk. I'd still use the reins for the complete stop. A few more tries he was stopping on the closed thigh cue, no reins. Once he got it at walk, we moved onto trot and canter. He had it all down in no time. I practice it a few times almost every ride while he's cooling out. He's gotten so tuned into what I'm doing up there, that all I have to do is close my thighs now and he responds. Pretty much it's whatever you and your horse agree are acceptable cues and to practice it until you have complete cooperation. It's a very fun thing to teach to your horse.


I did this, too. I also used the same method to teach her how to stop with just a voice command. Now she knows how to stop with either JUST my seat or JUST my voice. She caught on really quickly.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

This is basically what worked for me too, but it took us more like 5 rides to get it =). I also had to use a little rein and a little woah the first few times. Tanner really likes to please and he figured it out quickly. If he is in a flighty mood though, I still have to revert back to rein and woah. Like anything I ask as subtly as possible and escalate as needed, then stop asking the second I get what I want. Lacy seems smart and willing, I think if you show her what you want (rein, woah, etc.) while doing the escalation method, she'll catch right on!!


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MyBoyPuck said:


> I taught my horse to stop by seat alone in about 20 minutes. We started at the walk. I'd get him going on a nice free walk, leave the reins loose and make sure I'm following along with my seat without any tension, or at least as little as possible. To cue him to stop, I would stretch my upper body up, shoulders back, tuck my pelvis under a little, stop following the motion, and the magic piece of the puzzle was to close my thighs. The first few times, he didn't know what I was doing up there, so I had to use the reins immediately after closing my thighs. After about 4 times, he began to understand what stilling my seat meant and would at least slow down his walk. I'd still use the reins for the complete stop. A few more tries he was stopping on the closed thigh cue, no reins. Once he got it at walk, we moved onto trot and canter. He had it all down in no time. I practice it a few times almost every ride while he's cooling out. He's gotten so tuned into what I'm doing up there, that all I have to do is close my thighs now and he responds. Pretty much it's whatever you and your horse agree are acceptable cues and to practice it until you have complete cooperation. It's a very fun thing to teach to your horse.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

When you talk about stopping with your seat it is going to be different for each discipline. A reiner is going to be cued and do it differently then a WP horse or a Dressage horse.

However you need to start at the walk and cue the horse and you will need to use your reins to begin with. Once the horse stops back them up then and this is the MOST important part of teaching a horse to stop. STAND STILL. Do not move for a few seconds to a few min. When I am teaching one of my young horses to stop the horse spends as much time just standing still as it does moving.

Once the horse has the stop at the walk then move up to the trot and then the lope again standing still if very important. You want them hunting the stop.

Again how you cue the stop will depend on your discipline so I will not go into that as how I do it with my reiners will again be different then if you are riding a horse under english tack or even WP.


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## Clementine (Sep 24, 2009)

> I dunno about stopping with your seat, but I am teaching my three year old to stop the way his sires owner teaches his horses... when we want them to stop, we push our legs forwards near the horses shoulders and say 'whoa up' or 'hoooe'...


That is a really bad way to teach a horse to halt. You want a horse to step under themselves into the halt, and if you're legs aren't under you, your horse's legs won't be under him.


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

Clementine said:


> That is a really bad way to teach a horse to halt. You want a horse to step under themselves into the halt, and if you're legs aren't under you, your horse's legs won't be under him.[/quote
> 
> First of all I belive the poster is western riding so we put are legs forward and lean back as a cue to stop.


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> When you talk about stopping with your seat it is going to be different for each discipline. A reiner is going to be cued and do it differently then a WP horse or a Dressage horse.
> 
> However you need to start at the walk and cue the horse and you will need to use your reins to begin with. Once the horse stops back them up then and this is the MOST important part of teaching a horse to stop. STAND STILL. Do not move for a few seconds to a few min. When I am teaching one of my young horses to stop the horse spends as much time just standing still as it does moving.
> 
> ...


 

Thank you this is what I wanted to explain


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Clementine said:


> That is a really bad way to teach a horse to halt. You want a horse to step under themselves into the halt, and if you're legs aren't under you, your horse's legs won't be under him.


Actually is the correct way to ask a western horse to stop. Unless you are talking WP and use a spur stop.

If you did not sit back onto your pockets and move your feet forward you would come off the front of your horse. That is not a fun thing at all.


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## madisonfriday (Apr 3, 2009)

i squeeze my thighs and sit really deep to block his movement and if he doesnt slow down or listen i gently pull back one rein.


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## lolayla (Jul 25, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> Actually is the correct way to ask a western horse to stop. Unless you are talking WP and use a spur stop.
> 
> If you did not sit back onto your pockets and move your feet forward you would come off the front of your horse. That is not a fun thing at all.


actually nrhareiner, you shouldnt push your feet forward, you should just be tucking your but under. if the rider is doing it correctly your body will still be in alignment it just looks as though your legs are forward because of the angle of the horses back. if your feet are too far infront of you then your roll backs will be sloppy.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

No your feet will go forward. Look at the pictures. The feet are in front of the firth. You will role your hips under so you are sitting on your pockets your feet got forward heals down as you put more weight into the stirrups.

Yes your body is still straight or in line but your feet are forward. This is why reining saddles are made as they are so the stirrups swing free and forward. The set is deeper and set further back.


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## lolayla (Jul 25, 2008)

i see what you are saying and your pics definitely show that but i believe it is wrong. i believe that people who do this rely too much on their stirrups and should be using more seat to drive the horse further into the slide. i see way too many reiners bracing against their stirrups instead of driving with their seat. ah well, i guess we can agree to disagree.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Funny who that mare in those pictures regularly marks a 73+. I have also talked to and watched Shawn stop and ridden with his brother Mike a few times. They all stop the same way. So must be something to it.

The drive you are talking about and looking for is set in the run down. This is when you want to drive the horse into the stop at at the cuing of the stop itself. You set up the stop buy running in a straight line with your shoulders back a bit and drive with your seat in the run down. They when you cue for the stop you role your hips under and push your weight into the stirrups with your feet forward.


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## lolayla (Jul 25, 2008)

no need to get defensive, i said we could agree to disagree


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I am not getting defensive. You are saying it is wrong and since what I am saying is how the top trainers and riders in reining have been doing it for about what 40 years. Must not be wrong. What I am doing is showing you that what you are saying is not how it is done with reiners. If your feet did not go forward you would come off the front of the horse. If you ride a good hard stopping reiners long enough you would know what I am talking about. The feet go forward as you put more weight into the stirrups.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Shawn Flarida NRHA $3 Million plus rider.










Bill Horn NRHA Hall Of Fame.


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## lolayla (Jul 25, 2008)

just watching stacy westfalls video, you know the bareback bridless one she dedicated to her dad after he passed away, disproves everything you just said. never once did her feet swing forward. again agree to disagree.


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## lolayla (Jul 25, 2008)

wait, those last too picture you posted doesnt go with your theory. both of those mens legs are at their cinches where they should be. their legs arent pushed forward. it just seems that way because of the angle the horses back is at that moment.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Oh look Stacy riding. Look at where her feet are.










Even in the bridleless run you can see she has her legs forward. Just not quite as much as she dose when she rides in a saddle. I have watch Stacy show for years. As she competes in the same affiliates that I do. Very good rider. Better at freestyle they in regular classes.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes your feet need to be forward at the cinch. That is what I have been saying all along. Your toes should be hitting or up with the elbow of the horse. If you look at the pictures their feet are just in front of the cinch. When they are riding their feet are behind the cinch.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Shawn loping a horse. As you can see his feet are behind the cinch.









Shawn stopping the same horse. Notice his feet are just in front of the cinch. Also note that his feet are not quite as far forward in this picture as they are in some of the other pictures of him stopping. Now look at his rear. It is up off the seat. If he had his feet a bit more forward that would not be happening.









Part of the stop is rolling your hips under, taking your legs off, putting about 60% of your weight into the stirrups and moving your legs forward. It is not an either or type thing. You have to have the whole package. 

Do you want your feet up by the top of the shoulder??? No you want your legs forward just in front of the cinch which if you look at these pictures you will see that is right were they are. Just slightly in front of the cinch legs off the horse and weight into the stirrups.

Here is anouther picture. As you can see his feet are more forward and you can see his rear is more in the seat.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

This is what I do not like seeing but there are quite a few top trainers who stop like this. As you can see his feet are slid all the way home and his toes are down. To me this is what you are talking about in bracing in the stop. However Brent makes it work. Horse is stopping deep and relaxed.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> Actually is the correct way to ask a western horse to stop. Unless you are talking WP and use a spur stop.
> 
> If you did not sit back onto your pockets and move your feet forward you would come off the front of your horse. That is not a fun thing at all.


Please excuse me while I drool over your pictures!
Goodness, you've got some LOVELY horses and man, can they STOP!

I was going to reply about putting your feet foward (as this does shift your weight to his hindqarters to get him engage) but you beat me too it.

Where are you located, if I can ask?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

nrhareiner said:


> However you need to start at the walk and cue the horse and you will need to use your reins to begin with. Once the horse stops back them up then and this is the *MOST important part of teaching a horse to stop. STAND STILL. Do not move for a few seconds to a few min. *When I am teaching one of my young horses to stop the horse spends as much time just standing still as it does moving.


Yes!
Stopping does not mean you pause for a second and then get to move off. No. You stand. 
There's been sometimes where I have to continulely make a horse stand still - correcting them when they shift or go to move - for close to ten minutes before they actually realise that whoa means WHOA.
Such an extremely important lesson, especially if you plan on showing, be it Reining or WP. You do a stop and your horse takes a few steps forward, you blow that whole class. 
It's not okay for that horse to stop and then walk forward when he feels like it; there's a cue for that. 
Patience is a virtue and I'll tell you, it's a hard lesson for some horses to learn but it's a very vital one!


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## lolayla (Jul 25, 2008)

bah!! information overload lol. nrhareiner you have been very informative. i get what you are saying. i just wanted to touch on a few things. that first pic of shawn, i think that in comparing this to the other pics you posted that his feet are actually in a nice position but he is bracing against the stirrups(they are slightly infront of the cinch like you said they should be). if he had sunk his weight into his seat and heels then he wouldnt be up out of the saddle. but the second one, i get why the horse is stopping so nicely. 

question for you (hijacking thread lol) if you take away all leg contact how do you keep the horse paddling his front legs? i have heard that if you dont have something to remind them to keep their front end going that they will slam the front brakes on as well.


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## WelcomeStranger28 (Oct 21, 2009)

I find this a problem too sometimes especially as a like sporting and eventing. My horse has a hard mouth so the bit i use sometimes helps but no always. There are days were he is just lazy, but otherdays if voicecommand were to work on him it would be great!! i do sit back and sometimes a lil toooo much!! My friend says that is the way i sit in the saddle normally. I have asked my instructor about this and she says that my seat did and has improved. *I hope this helps you, and with the seat changing i dont mean change the way you ride all together!!!*


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

lolayla said:


> bah!! information overload lol. nrhareiner you have been very informative. i get what you are saying. i just wanted to touch on a few things. that first pic of shawn, i think that in comparing this to the other pics you posted that his feet are actually in a nice position but he is bracing against the stirrups(they are slightly infront of the cinch like you said they should be). if he had sunk his weight into his seat and heels then he wouldnt be up out of the saddle. but the second one, i get why the horse is stopping so nicely.
> 
> question for you (hijacking thread lol) if you take away all leg contact how do you keep the horse paddling his front legs? i have heard that if you dont have something to remind them to keep their front end going that they will slam the front brakes on as well.



It comes down to several things. One and this is what a lot of people for get. These horses are bred to stop like that.

Then the other part is training. They are trained to keep their front end moving. If they brace on the front end then you can do several things to get them to lift of their shoulder and keep their front free and flowing which is a big part of the stop. A lot of times it is not about the distance you get in the stop but the way the stop is done. The fanece of the stop. Same with the turn and rollback.

Here is an example. If you ask a horse to stop and he braces in the front end. Once he comes to a stop turn him one direction then the other. This will let him know that he needs to keep his front end moving. You can also back them up which is the most unusual way that most trainers will do it. It teaches them to sit back over their hocks and get their shoulder up. However that do not work to get their front feet moving. Another way that will work but I do not recommend it at first. Is to stop then back them a step or 2 then collect them up and push them forward at the trot. Again teaches them to keep their front end moving.

In the stop there is a fine line between feet too fare forward and not enough. If they are too fare forward then the rider is most likely leaning too fare back and that really can through the horse off. If they are not fare enough forward you get pushed out of your seat and that will make the horse jam up the front end loose their balance and I will not get into the OUCH factor of a horse jamming up the front end.

As for the horse stopping well when the rider is out of position. The thing is that is not the norm for how the rider is normally positioned in the stop. These horses are so well trained that when the rider gets off just a bit every so often then it dose not affect the horse. However if you keep being out of position then the stop will deteriorate big time.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Double post.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

WelcomeStranger28 said:


> I find this a problem too sometimes especially as a like sporting and eventing. My horse has a hard mouth so the bit i use sometimes helps but no always. There are days were he is just lazy, but otherdays if voicecommand were to work on him it would be great!! i do sit back and sometimes a lil toooo much!! My friend says that is the way i sit in the saddle normally. I have asked my instructor about this and she says that my seat did and has improved. *I hope this helps you, and with the seat changing i dont mean change the way you ride all together!!!*


Great explination Zoe, I've found I put more effort into my seat and Chinga will "speed" up but if I have a lazier seat then Chinga will slow down, so that with a little bit of rein contact gets a nice halt that you used your seat for.


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