# BO Chains Her Horses



## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

thats really weird and cant be good for the horses. having 'horse time' is the best thing you can do for a show horse,or any kind of horse. 
do your horses get turned out at tha barn? or is it only her horses she does that too? I personally would move barns because it doesnt really sound like i would agree with this persons opinions on horses, haha but im a picky person.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

She only does this to her own horses. My horse gets all day turnout, and there isn't even a chain in his stall. She's actually been taking pretty good care of my horse.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I would move barns. I personally wouldn't support a business of someone who is abusive to their horses like that.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Do you think I should report her? It seems like animal abuse.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't know. I wouldn't be able to give you that kind of advice without knowing exactly what's going on and knowing the extent of the abuse. There is no doubt in my mind that it IS abuse though. 

It is ultimately up to you if you report her or not but I would definitely move out before doing it. You don't want that to blow up when you're there.

Other things to think about:
are the horses thin?
are they living in bad conditions? (i am assuming no to this answer since you board there)
do they have any open sores as a result of being chained up?

If none of that is applicable, I don't know that the animal control people could do anything. But then again, I don't have any experience with animal control

Good luck


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Of course I would move my horse out before doing anything!

She feeds them well and keeps their stalls clean. I haven't noticed any sores or injuries. They're just a bit lethargic, which isn't surprising since they never go out.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

What about their mental soundness? Their overall soundness? Do they get really stiff and unwilling to move after being chained? Do they seem dull and unhappy? Is the bedding sufficient to provide cushioning for them to be standing in one spot?

I advise you to take pictures and videos, as much as you can get if you think it is an abuse case. Take them to the humane society or what ever animal control is available in your local area and see what they say, they have to investigate if there is a complaint and you can request to remain anonymous to prevent retaliation from your bo. The worst they can say is that they do not see any abuse...

That has to be a terrible life, chained in one spot all day day after day...


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

I mean this in the politest way possible but if she is abiding by her contract with you then you need to mind your own business. She may have a reason for keeping them tied like.. ummmmm teaching them to stand patiently. I had three horses tied in stalls today for probably 3 hours until I could get to them one by one... Not going to kill them... they just stand there patiently until I take them out.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

starlinestables said:


> I mean this in the politest way possible but if she is abiding by her contract with you then you need to mind your own business. She may have a reason for keeping them tied like.. ummmmm teaching them to stand patiently. I had three horses tied in stalls today for probably 3 hours until I could get to them one by one... Not going to kill them... they just stand there patiently until I take them out.


Exactly!!! Mind your own business. She is not hurting them. You should keep an open mind and see if you can learn why she is doing it. I certainly wouldn't call it abuse and if you report her you should be ashamed of yourself. I have kept horses tied up and saddled for several hours because I felt like they needed to be able to do that.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

If she takes photos to the humane assoc. she is not hurting anyone, but it would help to educate her if they decided that it was not abuse, and if they do decide it is benign then no action will be taken toward the horses owner and everything is right with the world. If they decide it is then she just helped the horses, no lose situation.

If everyone minded their own business how would anyone who is suffering be helped? It is you two who should be ashamed of yourselves by telling her to mind her own business, shame on you. She is not comfortable with what she sees, so she either needs to be educated about it or decide for herself that no one is being harmed.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

When they are chained up, are they able to eat and drink?


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Starline and Kevin, bear in mind that she keeps them chained up like that all day, every day. And these horses do not ever get turned out — I don't think she even turns them out in the indoor ring.

They do seem stiff and dull, and one in particular gets very frustrated. I will check the bedding tomorrow.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> When they are chained up, are they able to eat and drink?


No. The chain is so short that they can't lower their heads.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Then I would contact the Police and the Human Society. Simple as that. If you don't, then you are just as bad as the person commiting the act.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

She said herself that the horses are well cared for other than this possible abuse. If she takes photos to the humane society and some bleeding heart that doesn't know horse biscuits from shineola decides it's abuse she has brought all kinds of hassle down on someone that takes good care of the op's horse and is not abusing her own.

Are you at the barn all day or are you just assuming alot? If they are chained ALL day as in 12 hours or more then I think you may have a case there and you may want to move your horse and tell her why you are moving. If at any time the horses are allowed to get food and water and they are in decent condition the humane society will do nothing about it. Do you think they will confiscate her horses because they don't get enough exercise?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I'd do it anyways. If it goes against your concience, and if something in the back of your head says "This isn't right" then stand up for the horses - be their voice.

Can't hurt to report, if the authoraties deem the situation is perfectly acceptable - at least you know you did your best


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

She said they are well fed and their stalls are clean, in no way does than mean they are well cared for.

If the horses suffer physical pain and mental distress as a result of being tied all day and are not allowed food or water and cannot lower their heads then it is most likely abuse.

And Kevin, I'm sorry, not trying to attack you but just because you do not like the Humane association in your area and think they are not qualified does not mean you need to tell someone to mind her own business and not report what she sees, not everyone is a bleeding heart or horse ignorant, some people are actually horse wise and feel the need to report obvious abuse, there is a difference in being a empathetic or caring person and a bleeding heart: education.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Before you report it you better have a place to move your horse because if it was my barn and I got reported I would find out who it was (and there is no such thing as anonymous) and give them the boot and then put the word out to all other barns about what they did.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

And I would let everyone know how one treats their horses and would inform them to not board at a facility such as that.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Before you report it you better have a place to move your horse because if it was my barn and I got reported I would find out who it was (and there is no such thing as anonymous) and give them the boot and then put the word out to all other barns about what they did.


So if you abused your horses and were reported and reprimanded, you would try to sully the name of the person who reported you? That is just dirty but is exactly what someone would do as a retaliatory offense. So I agree, if you are going to report make sure you have a place to move if she decides to be unprofessional...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

But you might not have a place to keep your horse in the mean time. I don't know if it's abuse or not obviously but the OP should understand that there may be severe repercussions from any action she might take and be prepared. If she reports the BO and the BO is cleared then she may have a problem finding a place to board. I don't know how many barns are in her area but I would bet the BO's at keast know of each other and may have quite a bit of interaction. Better to move the horse first then report the BO.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> So if you abused your horses and were reported and reprimanded, you would try to sully the name of the person who reported you? That is just dirty but is exactly what someone would do as a retaliatory offense. So I agree, if you are going to report make sure you have a place to move if she decides to be unprofessional...


I personally would never run a boarding facility or keep a horse in a stall but that would be a reasonable action on the part of a BO that felt wronged.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Completely understandable.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Tomorrow I will check the bedding, and look more closely to see if there are any scratches or other marks on the horses.

I am aware of how nutty BOs can get when things don't go their way — trust me, if I report her, my horse will be miles from her barn!

Thanks to everyone who posted!


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Remember if you do end up reporting have EVIDENCE, either pictures or videos or both, it is all hearsay without evidence...


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> Remember if you do end up reporting have EVIDENCE, either pictures or videos or both, it is all hearsay without evidence...


Of course — I was planning on taking my camera along.

Thanks!


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

This is a horse issue, not a popularity issue. Given the information stated I would report it with pictures and/or videos as proof, regardless of what that might do to my reputation(after moving out of that barn of course). I didn't get into the horse world to be quiet about people who distress their horses just so I can be liked.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Good point.


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## orloff (Dec 9, 2009)

ANimal control cant do anything about it as long as there getting proper care.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

i know here in australia the RSPCA can't step in unless the horse is not being fed or watered AT ALL, or if there is obvious neglect like untreated wounds or emaciation

not saying though that i don't agree that chaining a horse to a wall for no reason is not abuse, because i believe it is, just as far as the law goes you might not have a lot of luck


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

I doubt she's leaving them tied up all day. The risk for colic without water is too high, and I doubt you're at the barn for an extended period. I think this things probably gotten blown up into a bigger deal then it probably is.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> I doubt she's leaving them tied up all day. The risk for colic without water is too high, and I doubt you're at the barn for an extended period. I think this things probably gotten blown up into a bigger deal then it probably is.


I believe that this is the case as well. These horses would of been racking up vet bills beyond belief due to digestion and dehydration problems by now.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I had a horse in training and when visiting the horses were tied for long periods waiting there turn to be worked. It taught them patience and was glad they did it. On one particularly hot day I was concerned with them not having water available and had to laugh when they tried to give my horse water " for my benefit" not the horses and they were right the horse didn't want any water. I am sure if they know they are not having water because of the routine they drink plent early and later in the day.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

mmmhmm...interesting.

It's a good thing that domesticated horses don't need to have forrage in their stomaches 24/7 and water. It's a good thing that we've drilled that out of their systems.


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm a strong believer in the "patients pole."
I am with everyone else that most ACs wont be able to do anything if the horses are getting cared for. Meaning food water and wounds being treated.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

the woman who trained Major leaves all the horses tied for several ours a day. I heard Clinton Anderson say that after you are done working with your horse you should tie them to a post or tree for several hours so they can think about the lesson and learn patience. I'm pretty sure I have the episode still on DVR. I think that may be the same reasoning your BO has for doing it. I think your BO means well and is not hurting her horses, so wether you agree with what she is doing or not shouldn't be the issue. That is a legit training method for some well known trainers as I pointed out above. Maybe it's not for you or I, but that doesn't make it abuse. I also think that as long as your BO is riding or exercising her horses, that wether or not they have turnout is her choice as well. Someone said that if you report your BO and they find that no abuse has occurred then you will have learned something and nobody would be hurt by it, but don't they keep records???? As a horse owner I don't want my name in their records as having been accused of horse abuse! If I were you I wouldn't want my name associated with making false reports against people either. Besides that, there are plenty of real animal abuse cases that they need to spend their time on.


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## Jubilee (Dec 15, 2008)

Have you tried talking to your BO about this? Are you sure you know the full story? Personally I am a fan of allowing horses to have access to turn out for the majority of the day, I don't like it when horses are stalled all day. But that is my PREFERENCE that does not mean that everyone has to take care of their horses that way. It is a very legitimate horse keeping practice to keep them tied all day. A lot of people do it. As long as they are getting some exercise (if they are show horses they I assume they are) and as long as they do get periodic access to water throughout the day then you really don't have a case. I worked at a camp that kept the lesson and trail horses in tie stalls for 12 hours a day where they did not have access to water. On first glance people might jump to the conclusion that these horses were being abused. What people don't think about is the fact that these horses head out on trail every couple hours and all of them are allowed to stop and drink at the trough as long as they want when heading out and when coming back. Most of the time they would turn down the water! My point is, a horse is designed to be able to go hours without water in the wild as they are traveling from one place to another. I prefer to have water in front of a horse all the time, but truth is they are fine going several hours without water. 

Now, it may be true that these horse are being abused. I can't say without seeing the place. But you need to get the full story. Just ask your BO. I am sure she would be glad to explain her barn keeping methods. Just because you don't like the way an animal is being kept and you don't think it's fair, does not necessarily mean it is abuse. There are a lot of strange horse keeping methods out there that I don't agree on, but if the horses are healthy and sound then I really can't complain. 

Please just get the full story before you call animal control. Good luck.

Jubilee


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

I completely forgot about this until I read this thread...

The first barn I ever rode at (weeklong camp), when I was like 6, had two barns, a lesson barn and a boarding barn. In the lesson barn, they had about 12 box stalls, and then they had about 8 standing stalls where the lesson ponies were tied up during the week. They stood there all week, except when they were pulled out for lessons. On the weekends, as soon as we finished our lesson, we turned out all the lesson horses into like a 30 acre field, and they stayed out all weekend. I don't think anyone would have called humane society on them.

I would never treat any horse I owned the same, but people may have their reasons for what they do. Maybe the BO just wants easy access to her horses. Like others have said, it would be impossible for you to be there all the time and see every action she takes with her horses. 

I would just straight up ask her why she does it. "I'm curious about what benefit this has for the horse. Can you explain it?"

Although I noticed your name is TWH, so maybe the horses have special shoes that the BO doesn't want ripped off.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

Actually AC can do something. They can fine your or take horses away if they are tied or made to stand all day. I didnt find this out till after I left a local barn, but a past trainer had called AC before I was there, and had reported them for keeping their lesson horses in those narrow stalls you have to back a horse out of to get them out. I guess they're called standing stalls? She was fined alot, and now the horses live outside in the field till their lesson time. They really do crack down on this, because alot of those trail ride rent-a-horse for a few hour places are very well known for doing this. 

Tying a horse to teach them patience for hours is disgusting. It usually indicated a lazy owner who isnt willing to help the horse learn what it needs to. The only thing the horse will learn is coping habits like pawing, and cribbing. Its like leaving your toddler in their car seat for hours, because they're wiggley.


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## damnedEvans (Jan 23, 2010)

I know horses that are kept only in standing stalls without free access to water but I'll not considering this abuse. The horses receive water 3 times a day, and they benefit from turn out in the pasture during the day (when the weather is fine). If they stay 2 or 3 days tied in a standing stall they are perfectly fine. So I guess it depends on the circumstances. Maybe your Bo has good reasons to do this. The horses will be fine, it's not a case of abuse but it's not what I call a proper condition for living either.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

There is nothing at all abusive about a standing stall. Geez. Talk about being overly dramatic!

Geez people.

Animal control does not care if horses are never turned out. All they care about is food and water and serious neglect. And no turn out is not serious neglect. It is a difference of opinion on proper horse care.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

sillybunny11486 said:


> Actually AC can do something. They can fine your or take horses away if they are tied or made to stand all day. I didnt find this out till after I left a local barn, but a past trainer had called AC before I was there, and had reported them for keeping their lesson horses in those narrow stalls you have to back a horse out of to get them out. I guess they're called standing stalls?


 
They are called tie stalls - the type you see at many fairs. We also have them. No abuse whatsoever. The horses can lay down - just not flat on their sides. Great stalls for horses that tend to become cast in a box stall.

Animal control will NOT pull horses who are well cared for. Rescues and fosters are overflowing with true neglect and abandoment cases right now.

I suggest if the OP has an issue, she find another barn to board at.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

sillybunny11486 said:


> Actually AC can do something. They can fine your or take horses away if they are tied or made to stand all day. I didnt find this out till after I left a local barn, but a past trainer had called AC before I was there, and had reported them for keeping their lesson horses in those narrow stalls you have to back a horse out of to get them out. I guess they're called standing stalls?


 
They are called tie stalls - the type you see at many fairs. We also have them. No abuse whatsoever. The horses can lay down - just not flat on their sides. Great stalls for horses that tend to become cast in a box stall.

Animal control will NOT pull horses who are well cared for. Rescues and fosters are overflowing with true neglect and abandoment cases right now.

I suggest if the OP has an issue, she find another barn to board at.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

If they arent "abuse" why was this BO fined heavily for using them?


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## dressagexlee (Dec 15, 2009)

Honestly, I don't know how people _don't_ consider this kind of thing as abuse. 

Keeping horses in stalls is already contrary to their nature, yet they learn to get used to it and some even begin to like it, given that they have sufficient turn-out. But, that's because they can move freely, eat and drink, and maybe visit their buddy next door for a snuggle.
But chaining a horse up so that he can't move, can't lay down, can't eat or drink, or anything is absolute blatant abuse. Horses need to drink 8 to 12 gallons of water and an average of about 18 to 20 pounds of (early matured timothy without grain substitute) hay every day. They should have free access to water at all times.
And what is the reasoning behind this "method" anyway? A reason that makes sense? A reason that can't be carried out in another _humane_ way?

I can't fathom ever doing something like this to an animal. And for what? Tell me that. Why would you ever need to do something like this?


As others have mentioned, take pictures and videos. Videos will prove more. In your written report, include every detail, but don't inflate the situation to sound worse than it actually is.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

sillybunny11486 said:


> If they arent "abuse" why was this BO fined heavily for using them?


Guessing if the BO was fined it was for something else not the tie stalls. They are not an uncommon way to keep horses at all. VERY common for housing a lesson string.
And they are not cruel at all.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

In my neck of the woods, we have a trail barn where people who want to go on trail rides can go out and get up on a horse. For multiple reasons its not considered a very nice barn among the horse community, but the main thing that everyone always mentions is that these horses are left tacked up all day, in a corral with no shade in the hot Florida sun. They have access to water, but theyre constantly pulled out, set out on the trail, then put back in. No cool down, and certainly no grass or hay to munch on. My mother who has personally been to this place when she was younger, told a story of a LOT of trotting out on those trails.

At the place where I learned to ride at, the trail horses were brought up from their grassy pasture, put in cross ties, groomed, and tacked up. They were warmed up for ten minutes before the trail ride, then at the return they were un tacked,given a nice hose down and returned to their grassy pasture.

My own horse has a nice 13x15 stall to roam around in, and even the lesson horses at my barn have a 12x12. I can't imagine keeping my horse in the equivalent of a chute and saying thats acceptable.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Threads like this prove that so many people get their panties bunched when others do not do things like they do them.
Different is not wrong. Different is different. Maybe not optimal but certainly not wrong.


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

> But chaining a horse up so that he can't move, can't lay down, can't eat or drink, or anything is absolute blatant abuse. Horses need to drink 8 to 12 gallons of water and an average of about 18 to 20 pounds of (early matured timothy without grain substitute) hay every day.


I'm definitely going to give my miniatures 18-20lbs of hay n__nb ... Please remember, not all horses are equal in diet.

If the horse is tied up for three hours - big freaking deal. I tie my paint horse up ALLLL NIIIIGHT before a show, because if I don't he lays down, rolls and gets disgusting - no matter what I cover him in, he will find a way to get disgusting. He's allowed to have his head slightly below level, and he's given water. Granted, he gets turned out. But in the summer when he's working, he gets worked, gets a neck sweat, and is tied up for another hour and a half, and maybe more if he was a jerk during the riding session (he gets worked twice per day). If he was a jerk at the show, he gets tied up. 

Being tied for a few hours is not going to kill them, and if you think that's abuse, you need to step out of your saddle because it's also 'unnatural' for you to be on his back.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Guessing if the BO was fined it was for something else not the tie stalls. They are not an uncommon way to keep horses at all. VERY common for housing a lesson string.
> And they are not cruel at all.


Nope the trainer was there durring the investigation. She was fined for keeping the horses in those small stalls all day, just standing there.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

sillybunny11486 said:


> Nope the trainer was there durring the investigation. She was fined for keeping the horses in those small stalls all day, just standing there.


Then you have a very bored animal control officer who really knows nothing about horse keeping.


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

PaintsPwn said:


> I'm definitely going to give my miniatures 18-20lbs of hay n__nb ... Please remember, not all horses are equal in diet.
> 
> If the horse is tied up for three hours - big freaking deal. I tie my paint horse up ALLLL NIIIIGHT before a show, because if I don't he lays down, rolls and gets disgusting - no matter what I cover him in, he will find a way to get disgusting. He's allowed to have his head slightly below level, and he's given water. Granted, he gets turned out. But in the summer when he's working, he gets worked, gets a neck sweat, and is tied up for another hour and a half, and maybe more if he was a jerk during the riding session (he gets worked twice per day). If he was a jerk at the show, he gets tied up.
> 
> Being tied for a few hours is not going to kill them, and if you think that's abuse, you need to step out of your saddle because it's also 'unnatural' for you to be on his back.


Not only is it unnatural its disgusting. _Lets teach those horses a lesson by tying them up longer, cause they know they were bad and they need to be punished, they must be punished._ 

How would you like to be tied up in a box for house. If a person has this done to them its called wrongful imprisionment and a serious crime. 

Ive never met a truely responsible horse owner who would even think to tie up a horse for an extended time unattended. You put your horses welfare before your own, their safety is paramount. Its sad to know how many people out there dont have a conscience when it comes to things like this. My horses are like my children. I treat them with respect.


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

I got grounded as a kid, as I'm sure several others do. I didn't know it was a crime, otherwise I would have sued </sarcasm>

He gets tied up for one night. You're right. He's definitely abused. That's why he meets me at the gate, and is in my pocket all the time.


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## Maverick101 (Nov 8, 2009)

Ok I aplogize in advance, as I have not been following this thread in its entirety.
But I feel I must comment on the statement that tie stalls or standing stalls are abusive...
The barn I used to manage before I built my own boarding barn had half box stalls and half tie stalls. The horses could lie down, had hay and water in front of them at all times, and stalls picked and cleaned daily as well as through out the day if they were in their stalls.To me there was nothing wrong w that. They had regular turnout just like the other horses did. They were just housed in the tie stalls opposed to a box stall.
A lot of large barns to this to save space, and or to use as temporary housing for short amount of time.
We did both, our smaller horses and ponies got a tie stall, and the larger horses, or horses that had bad stall manners got boxes.They did not stand in them all day, just overnight, or if they were in for a lesson, or farrier vet work etc.
Now I highly doubt that you are at this barn 24hrs out of the day? So to say they are tied in their stalls ALL day? That is an asumption...if they are, then yes I agree not something I'd be doing, or want someone else to do. But to call tie stalls out right abusive? As in my mind a horse that is in a box stall all day would be just as abusive, its not the stall its how it is used imo. 
And as far as her getting fined, If the stalls are up to standards (as they have to be a certain lenght and width) it wasn't the stalls it was most likely that they did not have acess to water or a procedure in place to ensure they had water at certain intervals. But to call all tie stalls abusive is a huge generalization.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

When you say chained I'm assuming that she's got them tied. It's a training method.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

In a horse rental situation it is much safer to have tie stalls since the horses can't crowd one another or kick each other. I ask in a previous post how long the OP stayed at the barn and how long in hours she saw the horses tied and she has yet to respond. Those of us that use our horses for something other than a living toy realize that they are not the fragile creatures others make them out to be. If horses are worked hard during the day they do not need to be turned out all night. A century ago it was common for draft horses to be in tie stalls all night because they were worked hard all day and did not lack for exercise. When I pack into the wilderness I keep my horses tied at night. I either ride them or have them hobbled during the day but at night it is much safer to keep them tied up. I have never had a problem with a horse doing that and usually at the end of the trip they will stand much calmer than at the beginning. The only way to teach a horse to stand tied is to tie them and let them stand. It should start at short intervals (1/2 hour) and lenghten to three or four hours. I know of many proffesional trainers that will catch and tack up 6 or 7 horses and leave them all tied while they ride each one then they untack and catch some more. It gets horses used to standing tied and gives them a chance to think about how he rode them. 

If you don't want to tie your horses up then don't do it but don't throw the word abuse around if the condition of the horses doesn't warrant it. The Op admits that the horses are fed and watered sufficiently and are in good overall condition.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> In a horse rental situation it is much safer to have tie stalls since the horses can't crowd one another or kick each other. I ask in a previous post how long the OP stayed at the barn and how long in hours she saw the horses tied and she has yet to respond. Those of us that use our horses for something other than a living toy realize that they are not the fragile creatures others make them out to be. If horses are worked hard during the day they do not need to be turned out all night. A century ago it was common for draft horses to be in tie stalls all night because they were worked hard all day and did not lack for exercise. When I pack into the wilderness I keep my horses tied at night. I either ride them or have them hobbled during the day but at night it is much safer to keep them tied up. I have never had a problem with a horse doing that and usually at the end of the trip they will stand much calmer than at the beginning. The only way to teach a horse to stand tied is to tie them and let them stand. It should start at short intervals (1/2 hour) and lenghten to three or four hours. I know of many proffesional trainers that will catch and tack up 6 or 7 horses and leave them all tied while they ride each one then they untack and catch some more. It gets horses used to standing tied and gives them a chance to think about how he rode them.
> 
> If you don't want to tie your horses up then don't do it but don't throw the word abuse around if the condition of the horses doesn't warrant it. The Op admits that the horses are fed and watered sufficiently and are in good overall condition.


There you go again trying to be a voice of reason, Kevin :wink:


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## dressagexlee (Dec 15, 2009)

I never said that the tie stalls were the abuse (even though I wouldn't use them). It's the fact that the horses _can't move_.
Tie stalls are fine, if you really must use them and the horse is able to eat and drink and move around (I wouldn't keep a horse in one unless it was for temporary use), but the OP posted that these horses can't even lower their heads far down enough to eat, and they stay like that for a very long period of time (apparently). On top of that, they never get turned out, which is done at some barns in Europe, but the horses are in large stalls. These horses are not.
Even if the OP is inflating the story a little bit, we can't assume that it isn't true. It's something that is worth taking to Animal Control or police.




PaintsPwn said:


> I'm definitely going to give my miniatures 18-20lbs of hay n__n ... Please remember, not all horses are equal in diet.


Yes. But we're talking about _horses_ here (14.2 and up). Horses average around 1100 lbs.



PaintsPwn said:


> If the horse is tied up for three hours - big freaking deal. I tie my paint horse up ALLLL NIIIIGHT before a show, because if I don't he lays down, rolls and gets disgusting - no matter what I cover him in, he will find a way to get disgusting. He's allowed to have his head slightly below level, and he's given water. Granted, he gets turned out.


If he's used to it and gets to move around, good job. Correct use of tie stalls. He also gets turn-out, good for you!



PaintsPwn said:


> But in the summer when he's working, he gets worked, gets a neck sweat, and is tied up for another hour and a half, and maybe more if he was a jerk during the riding session (he gets worked twice per day). If he was a jerk at the show, he gets tied up.


But there's one of the faults in using tying for training. People who think that, "Oh, he was being an ******* today and it didn't have anthing to do with me! So we're going to tie him up for two hours instead of one and a half! That'll teach him!"
Horses can't associate being tied for longer than usual with being a "jerk" during the ride. Especially if he's _usually tied everyday after the ride_. They don't think in linear thought, they think in the _here and now_. Three seconds after they (for example) bite you, they've already moved on to another train of thought and it's too late for correction. 
And besides, usually a horse will be a "jerk" during the ride because somebody screwed up with the training somewhere, or he's hurting. The horse is finding_ something_ uncomfortable (whether it's issue of pain, or misunderstanding, or being pushed too fast), so he's trying to communicate that something is wrong. Usually it will start out with small acts of body language, like tensing up. If he isn't listened to, it might develop into bucking and being a "jerk".


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

PaintsPwn said:


> But in the summer when he's working, he gets worked, gets a neck sweat, and is tied up for another hour and a half, and maybe more if he was a jerk during the riding session (he gets worked twice per day). If he was a jerk at the show, he gets tied up.


That is just plain ignorance and bad horsemanship. Because I am sure your horse knows he is being a jerk and is going to sit there tied and think "gee, I was being a jerk today, that is why I am tied up, I should stop being a jerk or she will tie me back up tomorrow":-?

No one is saying that tying a horse for a few hours is abuse or using a tie stall is abuse. There is nothing wrong with tying a horse up out of necessity such as when you have to leave him to do something else, when you are working with him and need him to stand still and secure, you are camping, you are at a show ect. But leaving a horse that is in a perfectly good stall tied to one spot(and just FWI if you read some of the op's posts, she says the horses are tied so they cannot move or eat or drink and are stiff and reluctant to move after being tied... so she is not just tying them up for a few minutes, and tying them in such a way that causes physical discomfort that the horse does not want to move afterward is abuse.)Just to do it or to teach it patience:roll::roll::roll: is absurd and uncaring of the horses mental and physical health.

I agree that I have not a clue how a horse can learn anything from being tied other than it has to stand there, and that can be done in a few short sessions, not every day, what is the point? Do you really think your horse is going to sit there and think "ok, when she says whoa I need to stop.... when she picks up this rein and touches me with that for I need to move like this.... when he walks toward me I need to back up????" when he is tied up for hours on end?? Do you realise how stupid that is? A horse is not going to stand tied and thinks about its lesson or what it has done. If anything he is thinking about getting off that rope and finding some hay or a good place to roll or about the fly that just bit his side or the rock over there by the barn or how neat the post smells...

Do you realize the physical problems caused in a horse from lack of movement? Not to mention the mental stress that boredom invokes...

The op should do what she sees fit, and as noone knows the situation but her, is the best judge of what to do in the situation. if she takes it to the AC and they decide there is a problem, even if you disagree, that does not make them bored or wrong or ignorant, it makes them concerned for the welfare of the animal not just if it is being fed and watered. And if they decide there is not enough cause to do anything then she has been educated in that the way the horses are tied is not abusive and everything can move on...


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

> There is nothing wrong with tying a horse up out of necessity such as when you have to leave him to do something else, when you are working with him and need him to stand still and secure, you are camping, you are at a show ect.




Well, as a lot of people have been saying...how do you expect them to stand tied with confidence and patience if they are never tied up? They need to learn to be tied BEFORE they go to the shows or camping or whatever else.
​


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> In my neck of the woods, we have a trail barn where people who want to go on trail rides can go out and get up on a horse. For multiple reasons its not considered a very nice barn among the horse community, but the main thing that everyone always mentions is that these horses are left tacked up all day, in a corral with no shade in the hot Florida sun. They have access to water, but theyre constantly pulled out, set out on the trail, then put back in. No cool down, and certainly no grass or hay to munch on. My mother who has personally been to this place when she was younger, told a story of a LOT of trotting out on those trails.


I remember at least one rental stable in Arizona where the horses were in a big corral, tacked up all day, waiting for people to ride them. I wouldn't do that to my own horses, and I would prefer the rental horses weren't pre-saddled, but I never considered it actual abuse. 

Also, weren't tie stalls very common back when horses were used as a form of transportation? Like horses kept in cities and such? That doesn't make it good horse keeping, but it isn't exactly something new under the sun. It seems like I have even seen pictures of the Lippizianer stallions of Austria in tie stalls. But I could be mistaken on that. 

I think horses should be given as much room to move freely as possible, for their own health, but I don't know if I could call a tie stall situation actual abuse as long as the horses got enough food and water. They HAVE to be getting food and water, if they look healthy, even if you aren't seeing it. If they weren't, they would be thin and dehydrated. So if they look good, they must be getting food and water, even if it's in the middle of the night. :shock:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Okay, I went and found my book on the Lipizzaner stallions. The book is called _"The White Stallions of Vienna" _and the author is Podhajsky. The book is copyright 1962, so it could very well be out-of-date as to how the Lipizzaners are currently kept. 

But anyway, just flipping through the book I saw at least 4 photos showing the stallions in tie stalls *chained to the walls*. They looked really healthy and I assume they got lots of riding.

I don't have a problem with tie stalls so much as lack of exercise. Hopefully the horses in the situation we are discussing are also getting some type of exercise. At least I really hope so.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

sandy2u1 said:


> Well, as a lot of people have been saying...how do you expect them to stand tied with confidence and patience if they are never tied up? They need to learn to be tied BEFORE they go to the shows or camping or whatever else.
> ​



*Before you pick and choose sections of my post please please read the whole thing.* _I said yes, teaching them to tie is done by actual tying, but this can be done in just a few sessions, not every single time you work with the animal and not for hours on end. _Tying for hours on end opens the door to various frustration related activities such as head jerking, pulling back, pawing, chewing at lead ropes as well as causing joint stiffness and back pain if the animal is confined in such a way that he cannot lower or raise his head or move and adjust the position of his body.

As I stated in that same post, I have no problem with tie stalls or any other necessary tying situation, _BUT find tying just to tie to "teach patience":roll: absurd and self defeating,_ not to mention a waste of the horses time and yours as well. As has ben said, horses are not lateral thinkers, they think in the here and now, tying a horse up to try and make it "think about what it has been done" is ridiculous and about as useful as making a 3 year old sit in a corner to think about what he has done, after a few seconds all he sees is that he is standing tied, period.

Just because CA does it does not make it right. Just because he did it and said he did it does not mean it helped a single thing, unless someone can show me the direct benefit of leaving a horse tied to the ole "thinkin post" and the direct to better behavior / more lesson retention, I say it is all hooey and a bunch of bull crap and ignorance.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Tying a horse can be a very humbling experience and does actually help with an attitude adjustment. I have never tied my horse for hours per say, but I have tied him while I cleaned stalls and fed all of my other horses or while I've been outside taking care of other chores for an hour or so. When it was time to ride or handle him, he was much better behaved.

I don't consider that abusive at all.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> Tying for hours on end opens the door to various frustration related activities such as head jerking, pulling back, pawing, chewing at lead ropes as well as causing joint stiffness and back pain if the animal is confined in such a way that he cannot lower or raise his head or move and adjust the position of his body.


 
I pretty sure the OP said that the horses couldn't lower thier head low enough to get to water not that they couldn't move thier head at all. I wouldn't tie a horse long enough to get it's head down very far either for safety reasons. I would also guess that the reason the BO uses a chain is to prevent the chewing. The horse is just tied in a stall it 'd body is not chain immobile to the wall. I think you are trying to exagerate to make your point and that really isn't necessary. 

Maybe the OP could post some pics on this thread before reporting the BO to the kindness police and we could give a little bit more educated opinion.

Also horses do think about the training that you did after you are done with it. I have struggled getting a horse to back up and finally got a few steps out of them and put them away and when I rode them next they did it much better right from the start. This has happened enough that I would say they soak on what you taught them last and figure it out for themselves. Tying a horse after you have ridden them helps this as they don't have as much else to think about while they are tied


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I am not exaggerating, I never said that the horses in the op were engaging in these behaviors, but these are all documented boredom induced behaviors. 

I expected a little more common sense from you Kevin, to be honest... Do you really think that tying the horse up helped him back? Or could it have been the few baby steps you took to get him to back that made him back?


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## Kashmere (Nov 30, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Before you report it you better have a place to move your horse because if it was my barn and I got reported I would find out who it was (and there is no such thing as anonymous) and give them the boot and then put the word out to all other barns about what they did.


Way to be mature : /


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> I am not exaggerating, I never said that the horses in the op were engaging in these behaviors, but these are all documented boredom induced behaviors.
> 
> I expected a little more common sense from you Kevin, to be honest... Do you really think that tying the horse up helped him back? Or could it have been the few baby steps you took to get him to back that made him back?


I have ridden alot of different horses and I know that horses think about what you do with them long after you quit. I don't know what mechanisms they use for that but it happens and alot of big time trainers agree. If you let a horse soak on something for a while it can prevent many problems. Sometimes if a horse wants to buck I may just tie him up and leave him alone for a while untill he decides he isn't being picked on so bad. I don't think they are using reason in the sense that we use it to sort out what happened but letting them think things over certainly helps in some cases. 

Maybe the BO is a horse-hating, mean, abusive, witch that gets off on making her horses stand tied in a stall all day or maybe the OP is overstating the case and making an issue out of something that isn't there. There is no way to know without at least pictures. The act of tying a horse alone is not abuse even if it is tied in a stall with a chain.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Kashmere said:


> Way to be mature : /


I wasn't trying to be petty but there is a good chance that a ****ed off BO would behave in exactly that way and the OP should be prepared for it. If I did own a barn and someone reported me to animal control you can bet I would kick them out in a hurry.


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

If you are concerned call your local animal control and ask. I did this recently about a place I worked at. I wasn't sure if they were abiding the law or not and I got clarification that not only did I think it was abusive so did the law. It never hurts to check things out.

That being said I know people who keep their horses tied up a far bit. They are in tie stalls some times, get left with their saddles on to stand and wait for what seems like forever. Yet his horses are also turned out in a 40 acre field a good chunk of the time, treated well and are quite well known in the penning world. I wouldn't call him a cruel man. But if you only came down and witnessed the times his horses are tied up you'd probably wonder what the heck was going on.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

There is so much mis-information on this thread!

When I was younger I worked at a riding school. We caught all the horses in the mornings, and they were each tied to a tree. They stayed saddled all day. When you have lessons running every hour on the hour you don't have time to take the horses from the previous lesson, cool them off, then go and saddle up the new horses. You need to get the students on their horses, grab the horses from the previous lesson and get them tied. 



> Horses need to drink 8 to 12 gallons of water and an average of about 18 to 20 pounds of (early matured timothy without grain substitute) hay every day.


This is a ridiculous statement. If horses are on adequate pasture, they don't need hay. And why can they ONLY have 'early matured timothy without grain substitute'? I don't even know what that is, and my horses are fine. 

Do you compete? I do - And when I compete I am on my horse most of the day and he sure as heck isn't eating when i'm on him. Same situation.


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## dressagexlee (Dec 15, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> And why can they ONLY have 'early matured timothy without grain substitute'? I don't even know what that is, and my horses are fine.
> 
> Do you compete? I do - And when I compete I am on my horse most of the day and he sure as heck isn't eating when i'm on him. Same situation.


It's an example; there are too many other types of feed with variations in amounts needed. These statistics are based off of the average 1100lb horse. Timothy hay is one of the most commonly fed forages at boarding barns. 
Don't get your breeches in a knot and assume that I said something I didn't. I didn't say they could only have that type of hay with nothing else, I simply used a common feed for an example.
And besides, if these horses aren't getting turned out they aren't getting adequate pasture, now are they?

And yes, I do compete. I do, however, make sure my horse gets a fair amount of water and grass/hay during the day, otherwise they get uncomfortable and give me less of their attention in the ring. I do this even if it is to my inconvenience; when I'd rather be sitting in the shade of the concession umbrellas eating my lunch, I'm standing outside the trailer supervising the horses while they have their mid-day hay flake and some water, while I chow down on a sandwich in the hot sun. We also offer water in between classes, and allow them to graze when there is extra time. It's not difficult to do; there isn't any reason that a horse shouldn't have food or water for a day. And if you don't have time to feed him at the show, perhaps you need to get a helper, or cut down on classes and _make time_.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

> *Before you pick and choose sections of my post please please read the whole thing.* _I said yes, teaching them to tie is done by actual tying, but this can be done in just a few sessions, not every single time you work with the animal and not for hours on end. _Tying for hours on end opens the door to various frustration related activities such as head jerking, pulling back, pawing, chewing at lead ropes as well as causing joint stiffness and back pain if the animal is confined in such a way that he cannot lower or raise his head or move and adjust the position of his body.
> 
> As I stated in that same post, I have no problem with tie stalls or any other necessary tying situation, _BUT find tying just to tie to "teach patience":roll: absurd and self defeating,_ not to mention a waste of the horses time and yours as well. As has ben said, horses are not lateral thinkers, they think in the here and now, tying a horse up to try and make it "think about what it has been done" is ridiculous and about as useful as making a 3 year old sit in a corner to think about what he has done, after a few seconds all he sees is that he is standing tied, period.
> Just because CA does it does not make it right. Just because he did it and said he did it does not mean it helped a single thing, unless someone can show me the direct benefit of leaving a horse tied to the ole "thinkin post" and the direct to better behavior / more lesson retention, I say it is all hooey and a bunch of bull crap and ignorance.


The reason I brought up Clinton Anderson is because he is a famous horse trainer and a trainer that I personally respect. While some of his methods may be a little rough, I have never seen him be abusive to any horse. That after all is the topic we are discussing...horse abuse. Just because you can't see the point of tying a horse up for long periods of time doesn't make it pointless and that sure doesn't make it abuse. The OP said the horses are in good shape. If the horses were being tied up all day everyday without food and water, surely the horses would be starting to have health problems. I think the OP went to the barn a few times to hang out, saw the horses tied in there and just started making assumptions about how long they had been that way. The OP even said she was gonna check the shavings the next time she was at the barn, I mean come on.


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## Void (Jun 26, 2009)

I highly doubt your BO keeps her horses tied ALL Day... unless you have no job or school and are at the barn ALL DAY, EVERY DAY. The best way to prove that any abuse is going on is to VIDEOTAPE it, not take photos. A photo is a still of a moment in time. It only reflects that moment and if there is no physical damage and evidence you really have nothing except a picture of a horse tied up. 

For all you know they could get individual turnout when you aren't there and let off the chain when you aren't there. My horse is regularly tied up for an hour with his cooler on while I clean tack, get his feed, etc etc while he cools out. My horse also gets adequate turnout and riding, lunging. I go to the barn to do this at a time most people aren't there so to them I probably "OMG NEVER GO OUT TO THE BARN TO TAKE CARE OF THAT POOR HORSE!!!1!1!"


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I didn't say shows - I said competeing. A lot of my competeing means staying on all day - They get water but there is no time for them to stop and eat.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> I didn't say shows - I said competeing. A lot of my competeing means staying on all day - They get water but there is no time for them to stop and eat.



Wild_spot I get what you are saying. Too many people see their situation and think the rest of the world, who does not do things their way, must be wrong and must be abusing their horse. 

Think about endurance horses or people who go on big adventure type riding. Those horses do not stop and eat every hour all day long. Yes, they are offered water through out the day as they come across it. Those are some of the most fit and healthy horses.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Honeysuga said:


> Tying for hours on end opens the door to various frustration related activities such as head jerking, pulling back, pawing, chewing at lead ropes...


Hm... actually I find that tying a horse for hours teaches them NOT to do these things. Do they do it when they're first learning and get board/impatient? Yes. Then they learn that pawing does not get them untied and they learn to just be patient and stand there. 

Teaching a horse to tie for hours is a very important lesson. Show horses stand tied at trailers all day. Lesson horses and trail stand tied waiting for lessons/rides. What if you were on a trail, there was an emergency, and your horse needed to tie to something for a few hours? What if your horse gets injured and and it takes the vet a while to get out there? Or a while to treat him? Horses need to learn to be able to stand there patiently. 

Personally I've found that tying can be a great way to teach a horse respect:They pull, creates pressure. They give in, pressure goes away. This is a pretty important concept to get down. It can even help break barn sourness. Horses need to learn that being tied for an extended period of time is not the end of the world.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Hey OP, where did you go? Did you manage to get photos? (If this happens every day all day getting photos should have been easy, right?)


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Did you ever consider communicating verbally with the BO and asking her WHY she did that, or did you just see, assume, and become appalled.


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## FlyinSoLow (Jan 5, 2010)

The barn I am at now feels there are three ways to lead a horse;
Average joe, well behaved: chain under the chin
A horse with poor ground manners: chain over the nose
Really poor ground manners or very peppy that day: chain through the mouth.

Do I agree with this line of thinking? hell no! 
It isnt going to kill the horse but I just don't agree with it... to each their own.
but other people find this common practice and no harm done.

Often on a sunny day when my 7 month colt could not be turned out I would tie him for 2-3 hours in the sun while I cleaned stalls.... He sure didn't look upset being tied out in the warm sun watching the daily going-ons. :wink:


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

wild_spot said:


> There is so much mis-information on this thread!
> 
> When I was younger I worked at a riding school. We caught all the horses in the mornings, and they were each tied to a tree. They stayed saddled all day. When you have lessons running every hour on the hour you don't have time to take the horses from the previous lesson, cool them off, then go and saddle up the new horses. You need to get the students on their horses, grab the horses from the previous lesson and get them tied.



I've never heard of a riding school where the students didn't tack the horses up and cool them off themselves. All the schools I know of also expect you to turn your horse out if needed and sometimes even wipe down the tack after your lesson. These are all things riding students should be learning.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Most of the places here in Australia don't do that - Insurance and liability I expect. Most places have a team of 'junior staff' who are hired for that purpose, which is what I was.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Hey OP, where did you go? Did you manage to get photos?


I think it is a common theme for this OP to dissappear when more info is requested.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

ponyboy said:


> I've never heard of a riding school where the students didn't tack the horses up and cool them off themselves. All the schools I know of also expect you to turn your horse out if needed and sometimes even wipe down the tack after your lesson. These are all things riding students should be learning.


When I rode in Germany there were about 20 riders to 5 horses. The "top" riders in the class tacked them and then rode them to the stables because there the horses are kept in stables attached to the houses and the riding stables is a community stables. So the top riders brought the horses to the lessons and rode the first session, then we switched. (lessons were 2 hours and we usually rode twice). 

When I moved back here to the US and went to a stables, they were shocked I didn't know how to tack up a horse.


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## Pidge (Sep 5, 2009)

I cant believe everyone is getting so upset about tieing horses up. It happens..alot...examples:

A mare from work paws her gate in the mornings demanding to be fed when it isnt feeding time. She comes up lame in her front from the pawing. She is a show horse. To prevent this the first person in the barn that morning ties her up in her stall away from the gate so she cant paw the metal. She stays tied for about 2 hours til all the stalls are cleaned and its feeding time.

At the same barn all the horses are tied after they are hosed off so they dont roll and get yucky. If the trainer has four or five to ride he rides, washes and ties one then tacks up the next rides for a hour washes and ties then tacks up the next then unties all of them after they have all been ridden an wahsed. The first horse could be standing for 4 hours...they are perfectly fine.

Heck i rode yesterday and needed to fix a tack issue so i went inside looking for the leather scraps and tools. Took me a bit to find them then got distracted by an important phone call. My horse stood tacked in the Texas sun for 45 min after a 2 hour ride. Then i untacked him and he had to stand tied while i fixed the tack then while i washed him and braided his main an tail and brushed him and let him dry a bit. Total he was rode 2 hours then tied for about 2. No harm done! hes perfectly fine. And it was dang hot yesterday for part of the day. I got my first sun burn of the year.

So will everyone stop saying that tieing your horse for extended periods of time is abuse? It isnt. I dont even see an issue with them being tied overnight if they got worked hard the previous day. I would have to tie mine on a camping trip cause i dont have hobbles, a portable pen, or a zip line to put him on. He would either have to stand in the trailer or stand tied to a tree. I dont see any big deal. Its not like i tie him up, nose to the pole, laugh and say " hahaha i shall leave you like this all day!"

Also considering the fact that the OP disapeared I believe the horses originally in question are prob like the ones where i work. Pampered show horses who get tied for weird random reasons during the day for weird random amounts of time. So long as the horses are a good weight and not beat on while tied i dont see an issue. No smart horse person is going to mistreat a show horse. They are worth to **** much and you need them to win, not be messed up from being tied 24/7. I doubt the original horses in question are tied up *all* day.


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## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

Its just hard to believe that someone who keeps her horses well fed and cleaned would own horses to only keep them tied it stalls and to ride. If these horses were tied 24/7 these would not be horses anyone would want to ride.

On my way to work one day, i saw a horse tied to a barbed wire fence with bailing string. No halter, just bailing string tied around its neck loosly so the horse could graze. That being bad enough, the horse's *** was hanging out in the road. I called animal control and tried to knock on the door of the house to scold the owners but no one answered... There was nothing I could do at that moments so I continued to work. I came back 6 hours later, to find the horse in that exact same place. The horse wasn't skinny, but the conditions of property were horrible. No grass, muddy, no shelter, junk everywhere.. but there was a disgusting round bale out there and a water trough (even though being tied to the fence didn't give him access to these.. they apparently had tied the horse to the outside of the fence so he could eat the grass on the side of the road since they didn't have any) and the Animal Control didn't do anything but tell them they should tie him more securely next time and keep him out of the road. Standards are pretty low.. sadly.

With most things, moderation is usually best.


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## JadedEyes (Jun 26, 2009)

I think the OP ran away from you guys!!!!! I know I would have. Hahaha...


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

they never get turned out? that is stupid! even if they are 'show horses' they need to run, their feet will swell. so they stand there chained up unless they are being ridden?


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Ok, I'll say that I DO NOT agree with the method of just tying up a horse all night long so that it doesn't get dirty, that to me is just horrible :-( BUUUUUT that's my opinion...as long as the horse has access to food and water, then fine, whatever.

But once you remove the water from the situation so that you're tying the horse for hours with no access to water, that to me is borderline abuse and certainly bad for the horse's health. Horses ALWAYS need to have access to water esp. when you're talking about several hour-periods of time. And if they don't have free access, you should be offering it to them frequently. (which you cannot do if you tie them to the wall all night, and I'm not saying that anyone in particular here has, I would like to hope that everyone on here who mentioned doing that left the tie long enough so that the horse was able to get water)

Water for Your Horse - The Importance of Water for Horse Health 

Here's a quote from the article above...

A constant supply of clean fresh water for your horse is an essential element in good horse care. Your horse *should always have water available* in its stable and pasture. While traveling, dehydration is a concern, and on long trailer rides and *during events or long trail rides, horses must be offered water frequently. *

*Fresh clean water* should be available to horses and ponies at all times. *Insufficient water can contribute to poor health.* Dehydration can be deadly. Lack of water can cause impactions leading to colic, especially during the winter months, when a horse's diet may consist almost solely of dry hay. Water can also carry bacteria or viruses that can make your horse sick.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Every time I have hauled horses I used to offer them water when I fueled up. Not once would a horse drink while traveling. So I do not offer anymore and just truck down the road to get where I am going in as soon as feasible


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> Water can also carry bacteria or viruses that can make your horse sick.


 
I think this issue has been beaten to death...the original poster has vanished. BUT...the above sentence confuses the heck out of me. The paragraph talks about the benefits of water, yet this sentence is how it is ended. I'm confused. Is this a typo? I'm an English teacher and this doesn't fit at all with the topic, so I'm wondering if something was left out. If not, what is this all about. Being very new to horses, I read all of this stuff to learn, and this just confuses me.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Fowl Play said:


> I think this issue has been beaten to death...the original poster has vanished. BUT...the above sentence confuses the heck out of me. The paragraph talks about the benefits of water, yet this sentence is how it is ended. I'm confused. Is this a typo? I'm an English teacher and this doesn't fit at all with the topic, so I'm wondering if something was left out. If not, what is this all about. Being very new to horses, I read all of this stuff to learn, and this just confuses me.


They're making a point that FRESH, CLEAN water should always be supplied...if not, then it can carry bacteria...(that's why I highlighted that part, because if read alone that last line doesn't make sense) 

*Fresh clean water* should be available to horses and ponies at all times. *Insufficient water can contribute to poor health.* Dehydration can be deadly. Lack of water can cause impactions leading to colic, especially during the winter months, when a horse's diet may consist almost solely of dry hay. Water can also carry bacteria or viruses that can make your horse sick.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

There was a lady at my barn a while ago that did that to her stallion. She would have him fully blanketed in the middle of summer, she'd put those chains around his ankles (the kind they put on Bick Lick horses) and she's tied him up so he couldn't reach his food or water all day. He was also stall-kept and he only left his stall if she had him in the arena. 

She got kicked out, thank goodness. I have no idea why anyone would chain a horse up all day.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-boarding/problems-w-boarding-stable-46659/#post538954
This is a thread by the same OP taht she dissappeared on. I think she is just mad at her instructor and wanting to cause trouble as the chaining issue came up after this.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I think you're right Churumbeque.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm going to go ahead and close this thread as it's gone on and on. Kudos to the forum members for keeping it on target though.


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