# New horse tossed me...



## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Sounds like he needs some ground work first before you start riding him and getting him to respect you.
I also ride my horse in a bitless bridle but for 3yrs. I rode her with a rope halter. She had been trained with a bit, she was 3 when I got her with 30 days of riding on her......I took a couple months to just work on her in the round pen making sure I got the whoa, back, turning.......
It shouldn't matter if they are in a new place, if you take them different places to go trail riding they are in a different place and shouldn't act out on it.
I suggest you do ground work with him and gaining his respect. Do you know much about what type of ground work to do?


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Without being mean or nasty it strikes me that you never really though riding the new horses through.
For a starter you should have closed the round pen get before you did anything with the horse. Secondly you are never going to have control in a halter.
Accident waiting to happen.

If you are worried about riding this horse than don't he will sense your nerves and be more worried.

I agree to do more ground work with him.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> Without being mean or nasty it strikes me that you never really though riding the new horses through.
> For a starter you should have closed the round pen get before you did anything with the horse. Secondly you are never going to have control in a halter.
> Accident waiting to happen.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I don't agree with no control with a halter.......if a horse is going to bolt it will bolt even with a bit. I've ridden my mare for 7 yrs. with no bit, the first three was in her halter and I never once had her bolt on me....yet I've seen horses bolt with a bit in there mouth.

I did alot of ground work with my mare, gained her trust and I trust her......if she did spin to bolt she always stopped when I asked her to.....I guess it really depends on the person and their horse.

I am now training my mare's 3yr. gelding, he is being trained in a bit and also his halter.......


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## whiskeynoo (Mar 17, 2010)

I'd maybe try riding him around with the bridle on until he gets a feel for the place, perhaps even lunge him before hand. 
I also agree with the ground work, you can never have enough ;D


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Groundwork groundwork groundwork.

That being said, why would you attempt your first ride on a new horse using a method that he may not even have had experience with?

Why even the desire to ride in a halter versus a proper bitless bridle or hackamore?

Yes a horse certainly can bolt with a bit on, but I think it's going to be a lot easier to regain control with a bit than a halter.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> Groundwork groundwork groundwork.
> 
> That being said, why would you attempt your first ride on a new horse using a method that he may not even have had experience with?
> 
> ...


Like I said, it depends on the horse and also how much ground work you have done too......I am confident enough with my mare with no bit, in just a halter or a bitless bridle (which I do have).....we have ridden with groups of 3 to 20 people and I have never had a problem......with or without a bit I think a horse if it really wanted to it would bolt......


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If he rode fine with a bit and he dumped you in the dirt with the halter, I would suggest using the bit. No amount of groundwork is going to take the place of riding.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

First off, you did not think this through at all, I totally agree with Foxhunter on that one. From your description, it sounds to me like he moved, you stopped him the first time with the halter. All was good, except he now realized he was in a halter....I am guessing it was a "regular" halter and not even a rope one?......THen I think he realized he had one over on you, so to speak. Stick with the bit until you build up your confidence and his respect as well as know him better. Some horses do great in halters, others not so much. 

Thunderspark-you are another story. You have had your horse for a while. It is not a new horse your first time on. IMO you should keep that in mind when you advise folks that they are all good to go without a bit that was working well for them last week, and now they are in new surroundings and new to each other. :-/


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

I do agree that's it is important for groundwork, also just grooming the horse and getting to know the horse and the horse gets to know you too. When I first got my mare she was 3yrs. old, she had been out in pasture, brought in and had 30 days of riding on her. She was jumpy/timid/scared of everything! It took me a couple of months just brushing/working with her in the round pen to get her to trust me and not jump every time I move/talk......I spent alot of time just sitting out in the pasture watching the horses. She didn't take long for her to trust me and want to be with me but I earned that trust with her.
Before I even rode her outside anywhere I worked with her in a round pen with just her halter/bareback pad. I wanted to know she would stop when I asked her to, it took a couple of months before I felt comfortable enough to take her out into just the yard, she was nervous but we worked through that.....now she is the best partner I could ask for, she will go anywhere, try for me and she may be small but she's got a big heart!


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

franknbeans said:


> First off, you did not think this through at all, I totally agree with Foxhunter on that one. From your description, it sounds to me like he moved, you stopped him the first time with the halter. All was good, except he now realized he was in a halter....I am guessing it was a "regular" halter and not even a rope one?......THen I think he realized he had one over on you, so to speak. Stick with the bit until you build up your confidence and his respect as well as know him better. Some horses do great in halters, others not so much.
> 
> Thunderspark-you are another story. You have had your horse for a while. It is not a new horse your first time on. IMO you should keep that in mind when you advise folks that they are all good to go without a bit that was working well for them last week, and now they are in new surroundings and new to each other. :-/


Yes I have had my horse for awhile now, seven years. But she was three when I got her, trained in a bit.
I would not suggest to anyone that they are good to go without a bite on a new horse.
I spent alot of time working with my mare to get where she is today......that is what I would suggest to anyone, spend the time, lots of ground work and patience.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Thunderspark said:


> I do agree that's it is important for groundwork, also just grooming the horse and getting to know the horse and the horse gets to know you too. When I first got my mare she was 3yrs. old, she had been out in pasture, brought in and had 30 days of riding on her. She was jumpy/timid/scared of everything! It took me a couple of months just brushing/working with her in the round pen to get her to trust me and not jump every time I move/talk......I spent alot of time just sitting out in the pasture watching the horses. She didn't take long for her to trust me and want to be with me but I earned that trust with her.
> Before I even rode her outside anywhere I worked with her in a round pen with just her halter/bareback pad. I wanted to know she would stop when I asked her to, it took a couple of months before I felt comfortable enough to take her out into just the yard, she was nervous but we worked through that.....now she is the best partner I could ask for, she will go anywhere, try for me and she may be small but she's got a big heart!


I really don't get where you're coming from. You're advocating the use of a halter because you feel a bit won't stop a horse. Great. However, everything else you've said doesn't apply to the OP.

It's a new horse, in new surroundings. It was NOT trained to be ridden in a halter. They have not developed a relationship. While it's great that things worked out well for you and your mare in that regard, the OP's post doesn't indicate that s/he is at that same place.

I'm *agreeing* with you that a horse can bolt with a bit or not. HOWEVER, I think it's going to be easier to regain control WITH A BIT than it would be without.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> I really don't get where you're coming from. You're advocating the use of a halter because you feel a bit won't stop a horse. Great. However, everything else you've said doesn't apply to the OP.
> 
> It's a new horse, in new surroundings. It was NOT trained to be ridden in a halter. They have not developed a relationship. While it's great that things worked out well for you and your mare in that regard, the OP's post doesn't indicate that s/he is at that same place.
> 
> I'm *agreeing* with you that a horse can bolt with a bit or not. HOWEVER, I think it's going to be easier to regain control WITH A BIT than it would be without.


I'm not advocating the use of a halter because I feel a bit won't stop a horse......I'm saying that to build the relationship with your horse that it can work out.
I am not saying a bit will stop a horse......I am saying that if you put the time into your horse and bond with them that it is possible to have the same control with or without a bit.
I am sorry but I do believe if a horse is going to bolt with or without a bit they will do it and you won't have any control over it more with or without......


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

A horse with enough spirit to be interesting is unlikely to respond to a halter until his training is extremely advanced. All this fluffy little don't hurt the horsey with a bit stuff is tiresome. If you hurt a horse's mouth with a bit, it is because you don't know how to use it.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Celeste said:


> A horse with enough spirit to be interesting is unlikely to respond to a halter until his training is extremely advanced. *All this fluffy little don't hurt the horsey with a bit stuff is tiresome. *If you hurt a horse's mouth with a bit, it is because you don't know how to use it.


Not to mention that it is entirely possible to hurt a horse using a halter - if one is injuring the horse it is NOT the equipment that is to blame.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

kbrlymarie said:


> I took the mustang into the round pen with me, brushed him out, saddled him up, and got ready to go. I got it in my head to try to ride him without a bridle (I use rope halters on both horses and had read extensively about riding in one). I thought the transition between bit to halter would go very smoothly - the mustang had always been responsive and gentle under saddle when I rode him at the farm. Every time I had saddled him at the farm, he danced and moved around (nothing too extreme, just boredom or irritation). He stood perfectly still this time in the round pen (we had been working on standing still while being saddled and I think our work together paid off) and waited patiently for me to climb aboard. He took a step forward after I got seated and so I drew back on the reins (no bit) to halt him. My right foot also had not made it into the stirrup so I leaned down to try to fix it. He took another step forward ad I halted him, this time with a little more resistance on his part. *And then he started to go through the gate of the round pen* and he was off like a rocket! He began to buck rather aggressively and eventually got me off. I hit the ground pretty hard (my leg still bothers me) and it took me a long moment to recover and get to my feet. I was pretty shaken by this time and it looks like he was too. He hung out up in the shelter until I came through to retrieve him (I never yell or am frantic in my actions). He looked frightened and when he saw me, he moved away from me. I finally got hold of him but was too scared to climb back on. I took him back to the round pen, *unsaddled him*, and lunged him *(we've never lunged before this incident*). I resaddled him and then we took a walk together (I walked on the ground and we went away from the quarter horse for about 10 minutes). Every time he tried to crowd me or turn back, I circled him or backed him up and then we preceded forward. I took him back to the round pen, handled his feet, unsaddled him, brushed him out, and turned him loose. I haven't been out to attempt to ride him since.
> I'm going back out this weekend to try for a ride but I'm really nervous. I was looking for pointers, critiques (respectful, please), or any advise that might help improve our relationship and build my confidence. This isn't the first time I've been thrown but this is the first time I never climbed right back on because I told myself that he was spooked for being in a new place, did not trust/respect me, or was simply stressed. Any helpful insight?


I've highlighted a few things, as well as a few other points I want to bring up.

1) While I will ride the very first day I bring a new horse home, I try my best to ride them in the same tack they are used to at least for a week, until I get to know the horse better. So at least while you are changing their environment, and changing the rider, the tack can be the same familiar thing they are used to and know. 

2) You thought the transition from bit to halter would go smoothly. Did you actually work on any halter exercises, or teach him how to use the halter as a "bit" first? As far as cueing him from the ground first (left direct rein, right direct rein, backing up, etc) as if you were in the saddle? When introducing a new bit (or lack thereof) you should always familiarize the horse with the action and desired responses of the tool you are going to be using. If you just slapped on some reins, and hopped into the saddle (which sounds like you did), you are just asking for trouble. Yes, even though you may lead him around in his halter and work with him with a halter, it's not the same snaping reins onto it and riding from the saddle, as having the lead rope beside him. 

3) Did you ask him to leave the round pen, or did he walk out on his own? You worded it as if he decided to walk on (like he was doing when you were trying to get yourself situated in the saddle). You'll need to address this issue. It is one of my personal pet peeves when the horse does not stand perfectly still after mounting, until I say we can walk on. Either way, as someone already pointed out, I think these were little clues that he was not about to respect that halter. Yes, horses can be ridden in halters. But they must be taught to respect the halter.

Plus, in your case, it would have been wiser to ride him in the enclosed area of the round pen only first, instead of the wide open. 

4) What did you do when he started bucking and/or took off bolting? If you had taught him to respect the halter, you should have pulled him into a one-reined stop. They can't buck if their nose is at your knee. If they don't give their nose as such, then you should stay on the ground until the horse is trained well enough to give their nose in any situation.

5) I don't agree that you unsaddled him when you brought him back to the round pen. You should have worked him with it on. And I'm also intrigued that you didn't lunge him at all before riding. Lunging is a fantastic tool to get the horse focused on you. I do NOT use lunging to "get the fresh off". You'd have to sit in that round pen for hours and work-work-work a horse to get them that tired that they won't act up. But you can work on getting the horse's attention on your, getting the horse to respect you, and gettingn the horse to listen to you. I don't make them go round and round endlessly in circles. I frequently change direction, make them stop, back up, and move their feet when and where I ask. 

6) But I do commend you for at least walking him away from the other horse on the ground. It's the next best thing to do if you are scared to get back on because at least you are teaching him something about ground respect and not to crowd you. 

It's possible that he was stressed in a new place. However, that is NO excuse for bucking. My horses get hauled to new places all the time, and are always expected to behave; stress or not. 

It is very possible that he doesn't trust you yet. That's where ground work is going to be key. 

As someone else already asked, what exactly do you know about ground work?

If you need help with ground work exercises, I highly recommend getting your hands on some Clinton Anderson DVDs. I very much agree with his philosophy on horses and how well he explains what he is doing and why. You don't need to go buy HIS rope halter or HIS handy stick (a tree branch will work the same), but his methods are all based on starting with ground work.


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## MapleAir (Oct 19, 2012)

First of all: S*** happens to the best of us. Live and learn!

My 2 cents: Although you might feel that lunging your horse before riding shouldn't be a neccessity, it is a great tool in the beginning and even after that to get rid of extra energy, gain respect and make the horse focus on you and the fact that game time is over and work time has commenced. 

Yes, you doubtlessly made a not optimal choice with the halter, but it happened and you have two choices now: Sell the horse (giving up) or work through it (not the path of least resistance, that's for sure). 
If your fear really paralizes you, get help. See if you can find a trainer or even have a horsey freind come over and give you pointers. Lunge you on your boy or walk beside you while you are on him on your property. (Re-) Build your confidence! 

And yes, groundwork! 

Good luck!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Agree with Beau--groundwork. You don't know how to read your horses. When a horse is either not listening, or frightened--and they can be scared on a windy day, for instance--you need to learn to see the tension in their bodies. Generally, they will also plant their feet, then explode. Most of the good trainers will explain that they won't get on a horse that is tense--THAT is why you got thrown. *You need CA's method bc your horses are a lot more green than you care to admit.* MY big guy--16'3hh KMH (left) was a lot greener than I thought when I bought him as a 3yo. I would suggest you buy the "Method" and spend the next month exclusively working your horses so that they submit on the ground every time you ask. I also teach my horses "over" (turn on the forehand) EVERY time I tie and groom. They now know the English, which I reinforce by sweeping my hands up from my thighs to the sky. I use this if I'm in the pasture with them and they invade my personal space, too. BACKING on the ground (yards, not steps) everywhere will give you confidence that your horse is "listening" to you.
I think you should teach them perfect halter and leading, too. I've gotten my two 6yo's to come to the fence (while turned out) and wait to be haltered, then I lead to a tie spot from there. I've left them tied for over 6 hours at a time to teach them patience. (CHERIE suggested this, and I remembered back to my original herd that I taught lessons with, and THEY were tied for multiple hours on a regular basis.) I would contact her about any other specifics--she could train my horses any day of the week. =D )
When I turn them out they must face me and wait until I unbuckle the halter. I would suggest throwing the rope over their necks and reinforcing the "wait" command. I learned a long time ago that a horse could kick you in the face if you turn them out facing away from you. In fact, my tallest gelding can put his head over my tall gate. He knows the drill--walk around the gate, then put his head over the gate while I close it, lead hanging, then I unbuckle the halter. He often waits for scratching before moving off.
THIS is the type of control that will give you confidence and hopefully, prevent another spill bc you dodged a bullet this time. =D


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Celeste said:


> A horse with enough spirit to be interesting is unlikely to respond to a halter until his training is extremely advanced. All this fluffy little don't hurt the horsey with a bit stuff is tiresome. If you hurt a horse's mouth with a bit, it is because you don't know how to use it.


Why is it people are so rude because someone doesn't agree with them?
"All this fluffy little don't hurt the horsey with a bit stuff is tiresome" I don't use a bit because that is my choice and not because I don't know how to use a bit.


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## kbrlymarie (Oct 19, 2012)

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have read all posts since I initiated this thread. I appreciate the constructive and helpful criticism and took the negative berating with good humor.

First off, I'm not a complete novice - I'm just a little rusty. I know how to read a horse, lunge, work on the ground, etc. I had horses growing up and learned extensively from Clinton Anderson and Monty Roberts. I've had far more spirited horses than the two I have now. I will be the first to admit my mistakes (I clearly made several this go 'round).

My problem was that I was just overconfident in my ability to handle a new horse (even though I HAD ridden him several times before I brought him home with no issues) in a halter (YES, it was a rope halter - I'm not completely incompetent. Just overconfident).

Since the day Muscle threw me, I have gone out to work with, around, spend time, and hang out with my horses. Muscle greets me in the pasture, respects my boundaries, and is a perfect gentleman on the ground. And, I successfully took him for a ride (in a bit) this past weekend! 

I think I've solved my own problem. I just moved too quickly and too confidently and I think Muscle decided it was time I took a step back. He's a fantastic horse - he minds very well and is very level headed. We work very well together.

I think the big thing I was really asking with posting this thread is what to do to overcome a fear of falling/being thrown or of getting into situations where a half-ton animal spooks and decides to bolt, buck, rear, or become difficult.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

The pressure of a rope halter from the saddle is different than from the ground. It's also very different than a cue from the bit. Sounds to me like the horse didn't understand the cue (pressure on his nose) and panicked. 

I wouldn't stress too much about it. If he's good with a bit, ride him in a bit. If you want to ride him in a rope halter, you have to train him for it. Do be prepared for the possibility that he might work better in a bit. Some horses do (and vice versa).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

Well at least you can admit that you were just over confident with your new horse.....I'm sure everyone gets over confident at one time or another. 
As for how do you recover after a fall/bucked off/rear/bolting......I wouldn't be much help there. Luckily in all the years I've ridden I've never had a horse buck/rear or bolt on me.......This year I had two falls, at a walk and from being in lala land LOL the first one was in the spring, we were riding back in our yard and I was daydreaming when our dogs came shooting through the bush down the hill, I don't think my mare bucked me but kicked out at them because they are bad for getting right on her heels! The second time was back in Sept. at a poker derby, I was out with about 20 other riders, in the middle and the girl's horse behind me tripped and his head/neck went right between my mare's legs and under her! I looked behind and saw the girl's face not more than two feet from me and couldn't see her horse. My mare jumped forward and got close enough the horse in front of us kicked her in the face, she didn't know what to do......we were in deep bush, she spun and I went in slow motion off her LOL
So I've never really had a bad enough fall to make me nervous not to get on again.....I know others who have had bad falls and have taken a long time to get their confidence back......

I also follow Clinton Anderson and Monty Roberts! It has helped me alot with getting back into horses in my 40's!

Congrats on your ride with Muscle!



kbrlymarie said:


> Just wanted to let everyone know that I have read all posts since I initiated this thread. I appreciate the constructive and helpful criticism and took the negative berating with good humor.
> 
> First off, I'm not a complete novice - I'm just a little rusty. I know how to read a horse, lunge, work on the ground, etc. I had horses growing up and learned extensively from Clinton Anderson and Monty Roberts. I've had far more spirited horses than the two I have now. I will be the first to admit my mistakes (I clearly made several this go 'round).
> 
> ...


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

*I totally agree with you!*



nikelodeon79 said:


> The pressure of a rope halter from the saddle is different than from the ground. It's also very different than a cue from the bit. Sounds to me like the horse didn't understand the cue (pressure on his nose) and panicked.
> 
> I wouldn't stress too much about it. If he's good with a bit, ride him in a bit. If you want to ride him in a rope halter, you have to train him for it. Do be prepared for the possibility that he might work better in a bit. Some horses do (and vice versa).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I find my mare responds really great with the rope halter or bitless bridle, she was trained with a bridle but I worked alot with her in the round pen with her halter before I took her out to ride with others.....


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I think you made a few bad decisions and hopefully you know that. 

When horses move to a different environment they can become like different horses. You should always be smart and be prepared. Don't leave gates open, don't adjust equipment once you're on etc until you're really used to a horse. 

Horses don't naturally respond to bits. They respond to them because they are trained to respond to them. Often weeks or months go into the mouthing process with a horse.

So why would you expect a halter to work all of a sudden? If you want to ride your horse in a halter then train him for that, and make the change over gradually. 

Not many people ride regularly in halters. This is, in my opinion, because they're not very clear for the purposes of riding. When leading there is one rope attached, and very little communication involved. Reins on the other hand have two distinct points of contacts and using different reins will have a different effect. Pulling on a lead while wearing a halter puts pressure on the nose, pulling to turn either direction puts pressure on the nose - there is no subtly there. 

If you want to go bitless consider something designed for that purpose, or ensure that your horse will respond to other commands, such as neck reining or seat control BEFORE moving to a halter.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Thunderspark said:


> Sorry but I don't agree with no control with a halter.......if a horse is going to bolt it will bolt even with a bit. I've ridden my mare for 7 yrs. with no bit, the first three was in her halter and I never once had her bolt on me....yet I've seen horses bolt with a bit in there mouth.
> 
> I did alot of ground work with my mare, gained her trust and I trust her......if she did spin to bolt she always stopped when I asked her to.....I guess it really depends on the person and their horse.
> 
> I am now training my mare's 3yr. gelding, he is being trained in a bit and also his halter.......


I agree that a horse can hook off with a bi in its mouth - and that I do *not *call bolting. However, if a horse wants to not turn then there is no hope with a halter.

Riding with a halter is all well and good until something happens - I can assure you that if you took a horse out following foxhounds you would need a bit or a hackamore of one type or another.


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## Thunderspark (Oct 17, 2012)

I've also seen horses with bits not want to turn and there is no hope with them turning either.
I think it's just a matter of preference.
I can't say that I've followed foxhounds, we do lots of trail riding, have come across many things and have never had a problem with my mare without a bit in her mouth.
We all have different opinions and mine just isn't the same as your's.



Foxhunter said:


> I agree that a horse can hook off with a bi in its mouth - and that I do *not *call bolting. However, if a horse wants to not turn then there is no hope with a halter.
> 
> Riding with a halter is all well and good until something happens - I can assure you that if you took a horse out following foxhounds you would need a bit or a hackamore of one type or another.


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## KountryPrincess (Oct 23, 2012)

I think we can all agree that 1- some horses work fine, if not better, bitless 2- some horses do not 3- when a horse is in a brand new or changed situation, it is not the time to be trying new concepts with them, and the OP has acknowledged that it was a bad idea. 

As for the question of how to get past fear, I think the OP is on the right track already just spending more time with the horse and when you do ride, try to make it in a controlled enviornment amd work on basic control and respect excercises. Overall, listen to your gut. Don't say to yourself" Well it has been two weeks I really should be riding now". You and he will be ready when you are ready, it will take as long as it takes.

Just a personal story....when I moved my mare that I had owned for several years, had a great relationship with, etc. to a new barn 2 years ago, she went ape s***. I thought "Where did my horse go?" For a good two to three weeks she acted like a complete nut. I could barely even lead her. This is a horse that has been trailered all over, camping trips, blah blah, I just couln't believe it. I would go home and cry at night and talk to my friends whining about it. They all said she would settle, and of course they were right.

The aggravating thing was that people at my new barn kept asking me why I was not riding, and did I want to put her in training? When I did start riding her I stuck to the arena for the first few weeks and people were asking me why I could not ride her on the trail? The bottom line is that I know my horse and I know her and my limitations and I am not aiming to get either of us hurt out of stupid pride.

Now she is one of the best trail horses in the barn (like she was before we moved) and a great horse to send young horses or beginners out with to help build confidence. So take all the time you need OP. There is no limit on how long it will take for you guys to become a great team


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