# Ranch Saddles



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Many good questions to which I don't know answers. May I eavesdrop?


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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

Great Questions! I want to know more too!


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## swimminchikin (Feb 27, 2013)

Subbing too!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Llamallover86 said:


> I am looking into getting a roping saddle but I have no Idea what I'm looking at. Regular roping saddles (calf/team) are pretty much not an option due to my horse being short coupled. I am mainly wanting to ride trails and for pleasure. I rode in wades this summer and loved them. Never thought a hard seat would be more comfortable than padded until I rode six hour days in them. Even though my current horse would not be suitable for roping I would like to do it in the future. I am hoping if I get a roping saddle it will be usable on my next horse. This does leave me with a few questions:
> 
> 1. When looking at ranch saddles what are the advantages and disadvantages to wades, association, modified association, and Will James trees.
> 
> ...


As you noticed a Hard Seat Saddle is actually more comfortable for very long rides, most people that ride for a living as in outfitters always want a hard seat, many other people who ride more than 3 hours seem to also prefer a hard seat.

The reason most people use is that a hard seat allows your bottom to slide around more, thus lessening the chance for Saddle Soars from being stuck to a cushy padded seat.

Trees: Every saddle maker has their own opinions on what tree is best and also have an input on how a tree is made, "wades, association, modified association, and Will James trees" Wade of course are a heavy version of an a-fork tree, the swells taper to represent an A, they are generally 11" at the bottom and taper to about 7" at the top, thus many people add bucking rolls to catch the top of your thighs as you are flying over the front of you saddle if your horse stumbles. Wades have a much thicker front allowing for the much larger Horns. The balance of the trees you mentioned are not all that different, as there is no exact specs for anything as in trees or bars, gullet dimensions it is more of what a Tree/Saddle Maker chooses to advertise as or the name of a famous person who endorses a Saddle as in Will James.

Roping Saddles: Roping Saddles have many names, Ranch Roping, Roping, Calf Ropers, etc. Again their is no Industry Standard, just preferences by each Saddle Maker, Ranch Roping tend to have Hard Seats, while Roping Models have padded seats. But even among the same Maker, each designation has it's variances.

Wade and Roping Saddles generally have Bolted Horns to the pommel and extra fiberglassing on the the Tree, some models offer Bullhide covering on the Tree for strength, the argument about which is strongest rages on among most people, in tests I have seen a double Fiberglassed Tree is stronger than a Bullhide Wrapped Tree, not to mention Bullhide wrapped costs about 150.00 more and makes the Saddle Weigh 5 to 8 lbs. more...

The main thing and I know this does not really answer your question, there is no Industry Standards, so you have to look and see which model suits your needs and the accessories it may have as each Saddle Maker has his own ideas of what to advertise a Saddle as.


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## Mike Zimmerman (Oct 30, 2011)

I think these will answer some of your questions.
This one has 3 parts
Eclectic Horseman Magazine - The Elements of the Saddle Part 1: The Tree

The Wade Saddle: Fabulous or Fad? | Traditional Cowboy Arts Association

The difference in the style of roping saddle is the style of roping you're doing. I have a McCall 98 wade, I do use it for ranch roping. Ranch roping and the wade saddle are designed for your horse to work all day, the low profile put less torque on your horse when holding a cow. Also the larger "slick" (not rubber wrapped) horn lets the rope slip to reduce shock when the cow hits the end of the rope. I hope this helps a little, if you have other questions I can try to answer them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I agree with everything Southern Trails wrote. Mike Z added links to good sites, too. I also don't blame you for liking McCall's Lady Pendleton. McCall saddle are considered to be a really good production line saddle out here.

In addition to the materials Southern Trails mentioned there are also trees made of a composite material that is lightweight and very, very strong. Carbon fiber used in the nose of F-14 fighter jets. LaPorte trees puts them out. I have a few friends that build saddles around them and know a few others that ride them and they hold up to every kind of roping they do. But, so far those trees are only available in custom saddles.

I'm old school enough to have more confidence in a bull hide covered tree for roping, but when I was a single mom raising three kids and ranching and money was very scarce, I darn sure got along with something else because of the cost. But, if I needed another saddle at this point (I now ride a McCall saddle) I'd get one built on a LaPorte tree.

Slick forks, A forks, Wade trees were so popular for a while and will be around for a long time because saddles last a long time. Most of us blame an article a few years ago in a major western magazine. But saddle trees with swells are also increasingly seen again. Personally, I can't see having a design that needs to have bucking rolls put on. 

Get what you like and ride it with pride.


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## sorral3 (Jun 7, 2013)

I ride nothing but wades. I built my current saddle and made it exactly what I always wanted. I like wade trees that have a carved horn, on piece of wood makes up the forks and horn. I use 7/8 flat plate rigging, sets the cinch back, less likely to gaul the horses and the flat plate will draw the rig down fairly equally front and back. With this, I will rarely need a rear cinch or breast caller. It is a preferred style for me, as well as riding and training in the buckaroo / vaquero style.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

Llamallover86 said:


> I am looking into getting a roping saddle but I have no Idea what I'm looking at. Regular roping saddles (calf/team) are pretty much not an option due to my horse being short coupled. I am mainly wanting to ride trails and for pleasure. I rode in wades this summer and loved them. Never thought a hard seat would be more comfortable than padded until I rode six hour days in them. Even though my current horse would not be suitable for roping I would like to do it in the future. I am hoping if I get a roping saddle it will be usable on my next horse. This does leave me with a few questions:
> 
> 1. When looking at ranch saddles what are the advantages and disadvantages to wades, association, modified association, and Will James trees.
> 
> ...


Speaking in general terms here. The wades usually have a larger horn in diameter. This allows more surface area for rope horn contact making it easier to hold larger weight . Generally they also sit a bit lower to the horses back keeping them less" tippy" with weight. However the larger horn isn't great for tying hard and fast like arena " calf" ropers do and are alittle slower to dally like team ropers. That is where the association ropers and such come in handy. 

As far a manufacturers the best thing to do is try several out to see what you like. If I could have afforded it I would have gone with a custom saddle. I could not. I have heard good things about the mccall saddles. I ride in a circle y wade tree and live it. It is a Kevlar wrapped wood tree and is pretty tough. I also have a association roper. Both great saddles however my go to saddle it the wade tree. I also have bucking rolls that I can put on or take off as needed. I my opinion they Re something very optional. I keep mine on most of the time just in case but have never NEEDED them.

Oh, my association has a padded seat but is grain out leather not suede so I can still move in the seat. My wade is a hard seat and still my favorite.


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## Llamallover86 (Jan 21, 2013)

I liked the wades I rode in this summer but don't know if I would want to give up my swells. I was at the tack store the other day and sat in a wade "trail riding" saddle made by Billy Cook. Yes, it was comfortable but I really wouldn't even want a wade if it wasn't one you could rope out of. The person there said that a wade wouldn't be that great if you were sorting cows or anything of that nature. 

Is that correct? Would either of the other tree styles I mentioned (in general) be better for that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

Just my opinion but there are cowboys and buckaroos all over that do what ever is required of them including, sorting , roping, cutting, covering ground in all of the saddles that you named. I wouldn't take my wade to a cutting competion looking to win big money but for a ranch type competion I would. I guess what I'm saying is a wade is a good jack of all trades type saddle but not a specialty type saddle like a cutting saddle or reining saddle or roping saddle.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

A lot of folks here ride Wade saddles. Personally, I really prefer a good modified association simply because I don't like the big horns and I don't particularly like the look of bucking rolls.

Since I bought my saddle for the main purpose of riding colts who are sometimes fractious, I needed something with a deep seat and good swells on it to give me a bit of security on the occasional nasty horse I rode.

Like Boots, I also prefer a rawhide wrapped tree. I don't know if it's just because that's what I've always had or what, but I have a hard time seeing a molded or composite tree being as good (I know in my head that they probably are...maybe better, but my heart argues the point LOL).

I spent much of my life riding in various roping saddles; Courts, Billy Cook, Simco, and various customs that my Dad had built over the years. I never found one that was comfortable for me. The seats were always too wide and flat and made my hips hurt in a short amount of time. Spend 7 or 8 hours in one and I could barely walk when I got off.

Then, I finally had the finances to buy my own custom saddle from Corriente (I pimp their name everywhere I can because I love their saddles for anyone needing something tough and working quality on a budget). It's a round skirt for some of the horses that I ride with super short backs, drop plate rigging to keep from having a big wad of latigo under my knee, hard seat that's deep and secure, and it's full roughout. That saddle has more stickum than any other saddle I've ever rode. I can ride in it for 8+ hours and get off feeling great, no stiff hips, no sore knees, etc. Roped some awful big critters with it and it's held up great.

Best of all? It fits a wide range of horses and hasn't sored a single one I've put it on.


















3 out of the 4 members of my family who frequently ride have Corrientes and love them; me, my Dad, and my Brother. Each of us generally puts more hours on a saddle in a month than most recreational riders do in a year or more.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Llamallover86 said:


> I liked the wades I rode in this summer but don't know if I would want to give up my swells. I was at the tack store the other day and sat in a wade "trail riding" saddle made by Billy Cook. Yes, it was comfortable but I really wouldn't even want a wade if it wasn't one you could rope out of. The person there said that a wade wouldn't be that great if you were sorting cows or anything of that nature.
> 
> Is that correct? Would either of the other tree styles I mentioned (in general) be better for that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


An A-Fork is basically a Wade with a lighter front end, but for light roping a custom maker can put a bolted and re-enforced Horn on it and then it would be a light trail saddle and a light roping saddle, they weigh about 34lbs with back 3 piece cinch and look something like this











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## Llamallover86 (Jan 21, 2013)

A ranch saddle being a "jack of all trades" saddle is a really great thought. That's kind of what I'm looking to do so it seems I'm looking in the right place. 

Smrobs, I love the look of your saddle. (I think that every time you post photos of it) I am one of those people who would definitely look for a bull hide wrapped tree- for all the reasons mentioned. If it ain't broke - don't fix it. The only thing about corrientes that I'm a little hesitant about is not being able to try it on my horse. He's pretty hard to fit but his old saddle was a fqhb. I read that's the only kind corriente makes. Kind of thinking the modified association would be the best one for me. I just can't see giving up my swells for bucking rolls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Llamallover86 (Jan 21, 2013)

A ranch saddle being a "jack of all trades" saddle is a really great thought. That's kind of what I'm looking to do so it seems I'm looking in the right place. 

Smrobs, I love the look of your saddle. (I think that every time you post photos of it) I am one of those people who would definitely look for a bull hide wrapped tree- for all the reasons mentioned. If it ain't broke - don't fix it. The only thing about corrientes that I'm a little hesitant about is not being able to try it on my horse. He's pretty hard to fit but his old saddle was a fqhb. I read that's the only kind corriente makes. Kind of thinking the modified association would be the best one for me. I just can't see giving up my swells for bucking rolls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm on my phone and don't have any good pics and having Hell uploading, but maybe you can tell how this saddle sits up a tad but more than a wade. I had Ken Tipton (Tip's in Winnemucca, NV) build me one on a 3B Visalia because I do ride colts and like a little deeper seat.


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## Llamallover86 (Jan 21, 2013)

I don't know why that posted twice.
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## Llamallover86 (Jan 21, 2013)

Ok, that's pretty cool to see the difference. I was wondering how A Visalia is different than a wade. Most saddlemakers I've looked at lately don't have pictures of them on horses.
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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

That's not the best pic, I can't get the other one to upload! That's on a 13.2 H colt so it's a little down on him because he's tiny but on a bigger horse the front end sets up a little higher which also handy on the horses I ride that have big withers.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Okay maybe you can see in this pic too how much rise there is to the front up to the fork. Same small colt. 
I do ride with bucking rolls but my husband doesn't ride his wades with any. I know plenty of others who don't use them and have no issue cowboying( sorting, working cattle) whoever said that is full of crap.. Lol!

One thing to consider if you decide to start roping and you use a slick horn rather than rubber or tie off hard and fast- the shape and angle of your horn. Those roping horns that are angled forward are the ****s to rope with in my opinion. Granted, I learned on a post horn, I have had hell with ones that are pitched forward with no taper. If you stack em on getting something soggy stopped, your dallys will pop off on their own! 

I like swell forked saddles too, I rode in a modified assoc. like someone smrobs for years! No matter what you decide, get a good horn, hard seat and to me the dish and width of cantle is just as important. I don't like a wide cantle and hardly and dish( at the most 1/2"). A wide cantle with a pile of dish will sore your butt cheeks fast!


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## Llamallover86 (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks for all the help. This has been a very informative thread. Always like learning about cowboy stuff.
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