# New mare



## Mjakagoodnews (Aug 6, 2014)

I just got a new little mare,12 yrs old and maybe 14hh,900 lb estimate, I am 225lbs, I was riding her Saturday and let the big guy I was with ride my big horse,after about 13 or 14 miles and a rest break in between, she just sat down, first on her front knees only, I gave her a nudge and she got back up, walked about 10ft and went to the ground, I got off and got her on her feet, she seemed to be breathing heavy to me, I walked her back to camp and she seems to be fine, to much for a little mare ? Or something else ? Any advice is welcome, she to good a horse to wear out,I'm thinking probly should carry lighter riders only?


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## littlebird (Jan 22, 2014)

She sounds like she's out of shape. She probably collapsed from exhaustion the poor thing. 

If you just got her you can't assume she was properly conditioned or in kept in shape at her previous owner's place. You need to build up her stamina before taking her out on longer rides.

I just reread your post and noticed that you said you are 225lb. I hate to say this, but your weight is definitely a factor. Shorter, stocky horses can carry heavy loads, but this little mare may be light of bone and unable to carry your weight.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

A horse should carry no more than ~20% of its body weight, preferrably less on long distances like 14 miles. You were well past that (+ saddle...).

Honestly, I consider this welfare relevant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Wow. Little mare for a big rider and a long ride. Pretty bad when a horse is that tired that it is on its knees. Was this nice level terrain or hills? If hills shame on you.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Even a stocky, sturdy pony like a hafflinger or fjord would need to be conditioned for that weight over that distance.


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

I have heard the 20% rule too. That is a pretty long ride as well. Give her a good rest and go for a shorter ride next time maybe. Seems like she was just overworked. 

She might need to be in better shape in order to do a ride that long with you or it just might not be possible for her.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

One thing at a time people, the OP 'estimates' the mares weight at 900 pounds, could be more or less. I would like to see a pic of horse and rider together before making a final judgement.

I agree that there could have been a lot of factors here, the mare could be unfit, the rider maybe unbalanced, the rider may be to big for the horse.

I say "shame on you" to those who are saying this rider is causing a welfare issue without having the full facts, it MAY be, but we don't know. IF and IF this was for instance an Icelandic, it would carry 220 all day without and issue IF fit.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

It sounds like you are too large and heavy for this horse and she is out of shape. To fall to her knees from being overworked is no small thing. When you are unsure of your weight vs the horse's fitness and size you should be paying close attention to what the horse is telling you, not waiting until it falls over to think something might be wrong,


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> I say "shame on you" to those who are saying this rider is causing a welfare issue without having the full facts, it MAY be, but we don't know. IF and IF this was for instance an Icelandic, it would carry 220 all day without and issue IF fit.


Alas, the horse did not "carry 220 all day", she was on her knees.
It's also more like 250-260 lbs with the saddle...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Still we are just surmising without any evidence to back it up, people are notoriously bad at guessing horses weight and height, and we have no way of knowing if the mare has any health issues. 

It may well be the case that the weight was an issue, but no one has the least shred of evidence of anything!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Golden Horse said:


> Still we are just surmising without any evidence to back it up...


But we do have the evidence of what the OP said in the post. Sure, we don't know everything - maybe the horse has underlying health issues that a vet could discover - but I think most of us would be willing to give good odds that it's simply too heavy a rider on a probably unconditioned small horse. I know that even at my ~200 lbs, I looked for the lightest saddle & tack I could find - for 16 hh horses 

I'm also a bit curious: if the OP is 225, what's the "big guy" weigh?


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Horse goes to its knees. You get it up and keep going until it goes to its knees again?

Stay off it, find a bigger horse.

Can't believe this was even attempted, much less carried on with. And hope horse didn't damage knee capsules when it went to them.


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## Mjakagoodnews (Aug 6, 2014)

Thank you all for the replies, even the repremands, I am somewhat new to horse ownership, that's why I ask , I need experienced advice, one guy said" it's just disrespect,whip her till she gets up and go again" whipping my horse just sounds like bad advice,I care about my animals and would never intentionally hurt them,and also I was not totally clear,14 miles was the total for the day, my grand kids are 100lbs at they're heaviest , they were on her also, I had never heard of the 20% rule but will use that I'm the future , and again, thanks to all for increasing my knowledge
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Whipping her is certainly bad advice for what you described. Post pics of her. We love to see pics of each others horses. She sounds like she'll be a good one for your grandkids when she gets in better shape and at their weight they could get her in shape if they rode (singly) on a very regular basis. Start slow and build up. Several of us here are on the heavier side and have horses that are in the 14.2 hand range that we ride. They are stocky QH types or draft ponies that are kept in shape by riding regularly. Remember too it isn't just your weight but the weight of your saddle and pad that counts as well. My western saddle weighs in at 45 lbs, my Aussie at 21lbs and my English at 16lbs. There can be a big difference in those plus my weight depending on the horse.


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## dernhelm1984 (Dec 19, 2013)

Hi Mjaka,

Welcome to the board! Lots of helpful, knowledgeable people here!

You are right in that this mare shouldn't be whipped! :shock: If she is out of shape, possibly carrying too much, etc. (what everyone said), then she has every reason to fall to her knees after a long ride that that! Absolutely do not listen to whoever told you to whip her.

My biggest suggestion to you would be to seek out an experienced horse trainer to help you learn more about your horses. There are lots of helpful folks here but speaking face to face with someone and learning hands on is always the best imo. 

Please post pictures of your horses if you can!


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## Mjakagoodnews (Aug 6, 2014)

jamesqf said:


> But we do have the evidence of what the OP said in the post. Sure, we don't know everything - maybe the horse has underlying health issues that a vet could discover - but I think most of us would be willing to give good odds that it's simply too heavy a rider on a probably unconditioned small horse. I know that even at my ~200 lbs, I looked for the lightest saddle & tack I could find - for 16 hh horses
> 
> I'm also a bit curious: if the OP is 225, what's the "big guy" weigh?


He's about 270-280,he was on my big paint, he's close to 16hh and about 1200lbs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mjakagoodnews (Aug 6, 2014)

I will try and post a pic of Elsa on here, I do have some in my phone, just a matter of learning how,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Welcome to the forum. This is a great place to learn and I see you are here to do just that. Good on you. We would love to see pics of your horses. If you are indeed too heavy for the horse, lesson learned, we all make mistakes. I have carried loads, as in boulders to the bucket of the skidsteer and fell to my knees several times. I got back up, hefted up the boulder again and packed it to the skidsteer, and there was at least a dozen boulders of this size, I survived, I am sure your horse did too.


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## Mjakagoodnews (Aug 6, 2014)

waresbear said:


> Welcome to the forum. This is a great place to learn and I see you are here to do just that. Good on you. We would love to see pics of your horses. If you are indeed too heavy for the horse, lesson learned, we all make mistakes. I have carried loads, as in boulders to the bucket of the skidsteer and fell to my knees several times. I got back up, hefted up the boulder again and packed it to the skidsteer, and there was at least a dozen boulders of this size, I survived, I am sure your horse did too.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PaintingPintos (Jul 24, 2012)

Mjakagoodnews said:


> He's about 270-280,he was on my big paint, he's close to 16hh and about 1200lbs
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know you want nothing but good for these horses, but even the big guy is too big for the paint I think. 20% of 1200 is 240 and adding his normal weight plus saddle is too much unless the horse is very well conditioned.

I think it's a good idea to condition these horses until they're better suited for riders of a bigger size.

I'm really happy that you're showing concern, though! New riders can always find help here and we're always happy to show you the ropes!

Best of luck~


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

PaintingPintos said:


> II think. 20% of 1200 is 240 and adding his normal weight plus saddle is too much unless the horse is very well conditioned.
> Best of luck~


By those standards, most of the bull-doggers I've known shouldn't have been allowed to go trail riding on anything less that a percheron or belgian. I've known working cowboys who live in the saddle of 15h grade/mustangs that might have weighed 1000. And I'm pretty sure with all their tack they weighted a LOT more than 200lbs.

Yes, the OP probably took the horse on a first jaunt that was physically taxing - both in distance and in weight - to a horse who probably wasn't it top condition. And yes, the paint was probably in better condition, as it was - pound for pound and distance, just as heavily worked. 

Most of my life I've tipped the scales around 140. My saddles averaged 35. I often had a saddle bag with maybe 20 lbs of water, snacks, a jacket, etc. in it. Let's just round that to 200 lbs. Based on the "rules," I should never take a horse under 1000lbs out for a long ride. I used to do it all the time! Of course, my horses were fit.
A friend of mine weighs 200+. She just rode an 850-950lb mare on a 68 mile ride over a 7,200ft mountain in 7 days. I watched her from the driver's seat of the antique carriage that followed her. We averaged 10-14 miles a day and only had one day of rest in the middle. Temps ranged from 101F on the last day, to 28F in the mornings on the peaks. Her horse was fit.

Rant over.


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## SummerShy (Aug 3, 2014)

Jeez, this thread... I'm sure glad nobody is pointing out MY weight issues... 


Mjaka, work your horse and build up her endurance. See what you can do together.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Change said:


> By those standards, most of the bull-doggers I've known shouldn't have been allowed to go trail riding on anything less that a percheron or belgian. I've known working cowboys who live in the saddle of 15h grade/mustangs that might have weighed 1000. And I'm pretty sure with all their tack they weighted a LOT more than 200lbs.


But as you yourself point out, the difference is that their horses are fit. Or if you want to cast it into human terms, I weigh about 200 lbs, and can carry a 40 lb pack around the mountains all day (and think I'm having fun!), because I'm fit. I know other guys of similar weight & height who'd probably drop to their knees after a mile or two of that, 'cause they're not fit.

Indeed, there was a time in my life when I used to spend days humping sacks of cement around construction sites, two at a time, which is close to my own body weight. Try that nowadays, I'd be dropping to my knees too


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

It's great that you're listening to all this advice and taking it on board!

To be honest I think that 14 miles is quite a distance for a horse, and carrying a rider the horse needs to be worked up to that. Bringing my boy back into work I've started with about 15 - 20 mins of light walk/trot work, followed by a 10 - 15 minute walk. I'll start going longer and faster as he gets fitter but expecting him to do this sustained work and carry a rider is pretty tough. When you're at the top of your horse's acceptable weight range it's pretty important to keep them fit, and build their fitness up at a reasonable rate.


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## Mjakagoodnews (Aug 6, 2014)

I managed to get a couple of pics of both my horses on here,tell me what you think


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

These photos are in her album with her profile. I didn't repost them here since I didn't ask her if she minded. They're easy enough to find.


Elsa looks like a nice mare, but she really is lacking in muscle. She needs to be slowly brought into better fitness. A good fitness program will really improve her carrying capacity.

It would be nice to see the two of you together.

The fellow on your paint is hard to tell much from, as we don't see much of the horse. However, he doesn't look too overtly large. I would say that if the uneven slouching in the saddle was just a moment in time, no big deal. BUT, if he rides slouched to the side like this for any distance that will cause real problems for the horse and likely end badly for him. Just nag him to sit even in the saddle. We women are good at nagging about things like that....no?


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## WildAtHeart (Jul 17, 2013)

Keep working with your mare to build muscle. Once you get to know her you will be able to tell when she is running out of steam. Good luck =)


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I never did get to where I was going with my rant. I decided I'd better stop where I was before I got booted off-forum. (and that's why I usually avoid posting when one of my buttons gets pushed)  Sorry if I offended anyone. ::>me scuffing toe in dirt<::

Anyway - where I was trying to get was to tell mjakagoodnews to work her horse into condition by working her in distance/exertion stages. As others have said, walk - walk/trot - walk cooldowns. In my case, I would pick a distance of say two miles to start. Walk her out and back, then check her chest and belly for sweat and check her breathing. If she's wet and/or breathing deep, do it again the next day. If she's dry, then next day walk 1/2 mile, trot 1/4 mile, walk 1/2 mile, trot 1/4, then walk home. Continue that until she's dry after the ride, then up the distance by a mile. Rinse and repeat. When she can do 5 miles and come home acting like she's ready to do it all again - the next day add an easy canter to replace every other trot. And rinse. And repeat. Oh - and if you skip a few days... back up to the previous distance. 

Keep this up, and in time, that mare of yours will pout when it's time to be put up.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Good advice Change, slow and steady building up condition in both horse and rider over time. 

I have found this year that rider fitness has a huge impact on the horse, a fit fatty is easier to carry than an unfit one


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