# Helmet? Helmet.



## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

So BIG question to you horse people, "Do YOU wear a helmet?"

Im the stubborn kid who HATES them but I wear one, ever since I learned the hard way after getting bucked off and sent the the hospital. After words acouple weeks later I got bucked off again but my head was protected and jusst got the wind knocked out of me. 
HELMET HELMET HELMET

I just learned my friend got bucked off today and it sounded TERRIBLE now Im furious because I never pushed her to wear one. Sure its your choice but pardon me for wanting my best friend to be protected.

So what if it "isnt attractive" Id rather have my head on right and my face stilll pretty WITH a Helmet, then have a messed up brain and scarred up face!

So Again, Do you wear a helmet? Got any horror stories of non-helmet wearers? Share, PLEASE


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

This has been covered in innumerable previous threads; it's a never-ending argument really.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

This is a discussion we've had multiple times on the forum. Usually ends in an argument, so be prepared.

Personally, I wear one. Its a requirement where I keep my horse, so I have no choice. It's something I grew up doing and something my parents want me to do, so I do it. I see it to be much easier to take the few seconds to clip my helmet on then to be nursing a horrible head injury. While they won't 'save' you they will increase your chances of being safe.

Either way, I have friends who don't wear them. I don't pressure them. It's like what religion you follow, if you wear a seat-belt (on private properties), its each individuals choice and no one should pressure someone to wear one (unless, it's their parents and they are a minor. Then its the parents choice and I believe that all minors should wear one).


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## BubblesBlue (Jun 29, 2010)

With the people who don't wear helmets being always chastised to wear helmets...


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## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Im very aware there has been, thank you. But Im interested in reading the STORIES as well. The most recent thread about helmets is just the question of if you do or dont wear a helmet. 

I wanna hear about exsperiences!


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Well, experiences.

I fell off and smashed my head into a very solid Cross Country fence. I walked away with an awesome dint in my helmet and a mild concussion. I was very glad to be wearing a helmet because it would have been much worse otherwise. I've also been kicked in the head coming off a horse, once again if I wasn't wearing a helmet the force of that kick would have probably been fatal.

On the other hand, I've jumped on horses at the farm without a helmet. (Touch wood), I've never come off or gotten hurt. So, I've experienced both sides of the argument really.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

I always wear mine (unless someone in the barn misplaces it). I'm quite an unlucky person so I don't like to take too many chances if I can avoid it.

If someone doesn't want to wear a helmet, that's fine by me. It's not my problem if they end up having a bad accident.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I wear a helmet and a body protector every time I ride.

A couple of months ago I bad a pretty bad fall. I fell landing on my lower back, smashed my head into the ground and tumbled. I split the foam of my helmet completely through and all the way up to the top of the helmet. It looked like a sword sliced through it. The visor bent and absorbed the impact otherwise I would have broken my nose. Also got a surface bruise over my lower back and kidney area - the body protector prevented that from being worse and kept some rocks from cutting me up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

DancingArabian said:


> I wear a helmet and a body protector every time I ride.
> 
> A couple of months ago I bad a pretty bad fall. I fell landing on my lower back, smashed my head into the ground and tumbled. I split the foam of my helmet completely through and all the way up to the top of the helmet. It looked like a sword sliced through it. The visor bent and absorbed the impact otherwise I would have broken my nose. Also got a surface bruise over my lower back and kidney area - the body protector prevented that from being worse and kept some rocks from cutting me up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Personally, don't always wear a back protector. Although, if my horse is being a total noob (bucky, reary stuff) then I'll wear one. And, I always wear one when I'm jumping - it's compulsory on most/all cross country courses here.


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## Haileyyy (Mar 10, 2012)

If I can, I wear a helmet. Anyone who rides besidesmy mom or I (friends, family, etc..) wears a helmet. We have about 5, one being mine. In my area wearing a helmet is almost unheard of, I have only seen one other person wear one. My friends and I have actually gotten made fun of for wearing helmets, but I prefer my head in one piece/functional.

I am very prone to head injuries, and had a pretty serious accident unrelated to horses (14 days in ICU) when I was about ten, and managed to get by with frecuent mild headaches. Then, when I was 12 I fell off of my previous horse and had gotten a concussion. It wasn't bad, but it was enough that I couldn't remember about 2 days. I've had some other falls since then, but no injuries besides being sore at the most. 

One story that always made me wear my helmet as often as I can was a trainer that was about 10 minutes away from our previous barn. She had been riding her fantastically trained dressage horse, who had an off day and reared and ended up falling on her. She had a head injury very similar to mine when I was ten, only not as bad as mine(I assume because I was younger I healed better). She ended up, for a lack of a better term, brain dead. I am not sure what happened to her but last I heard she had passed away due to complications of her accident.

So, to me, it's like buckling your seat belt. Sure, you don't have to, but it can really save you in tough situations if you do (another thing I always do lol)


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

it wasnt that bad jazz! and im fine, now if i was riding a green broke horse yes definitly i would be wearing a helmet. Poncho has his off days, that is the first time in just about 4! yes 4 years ive been bucked off. So i guess 4 years from now ill wear a helmet again when riding the little monster


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## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

Not funny stacie, did you read the comment before yours?!

Whatever I guess, its your brain.


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## Lunarflowermaiden (Aug 17, 2010)

Yes, I wear a helmet. Every ride (though I did forget it recently, but as soon as I realized I wasn't wearing it, I dismounted and got it), no matter the horse.

My first and so far only fall (I've been riding since I was nine, I am almost 25 now), was on a very trustworthy mare (as bombproof as you can get). She didn't spook, she didn't do anything bad, she just tripped at the canter, and I flew straight over her head and onto my head.

Also having had experience working with people who have traumatic brain injuries. I want to do everything in my power to spare myself, and my family from having to go through that, while still being able to enjoy something I love.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> This is a discussion we've had multiple times on the forum. Usually ends in an argument, so be prepared.
> 
> Personally, I wear one. Its a requirement where I keep my horse, so I have no choice. It's something I grew up doing and something my parents want me to do, so I do it. I see it to be much easier to take the few seconds to clip my helmet on then to be nursing a horrible head injury. *While they won't 'save' you they will increase your chances of being safe.*
> 
> Either way, I have friends who don't wear them. I don't pressure them. It's like what religion you follow, if you wear a seat-belt (on private properties), its each individuals choice and no one should pressure someone to wear one (unless, it's their parents and they are a minor. Then its the parents choice and I believe that all minors should wear one).


actually, a helmet can save you, not always, but it can. speaking from personal experience, my life was saved by a helmet =]


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> Personally, don't always wear a back protector. Although, if my horse is being a total noob (bucky, reary stuff) then I'll wear one. And, I always wear one when I'm jumping - it's compulsory on most/all cross country courses here.


I was schooling cross country with obstacles on my horse who had never been to that sort of thing. I ended up going to the ER - freaked my husband out because it was the first time ever that I didn't respond to his calls/texts (I was dazed and honestly couldn't remember how to use my iPhone and convinced myself it was broken as a result). He insists I wear it all the time. With as much solo trail riding as I do and as much debris there is on the ground, I figure it can't hurt.

I've actually gotten used to riding with it now and once or twice that I've gotten up to ride without it, it felt weird and wrong so I got off and put it on.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

gypsygirl said:


> actually, a helmet can save you, not always, but it can. speaking from personal experience, my life was saved by a helmet =]


I agree, gypsy. 

No, helmet is NOT cure-it-all, but when you have a fall landing on something hard with your head (like when I fell on trails right on rocks, helmet went to trash after that BTW) having a helmet on is very handy. It's also handy to protect the head from low branches on some narrow trails.  

I didn't wear a helmet till the day my saddle broke sending me to the accident (thankfully speed was very slow). I got a helmet very next day. Lol!


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## Live2Ride15 (Feb 22, 2012)

Yes I always wear a helmet i have only ridden once with out(Not including vaulting)

About 2 years ago I was still jumping low to 2' crossrails and the horse I was riding thought it would be fun to try and go over the 3' rolltop. I was not cool with this lol so i turned hime hard to the fence. well we get to the fence and trying tostraiened out then he bolted and I went flying into the fence of the arena (the fence was metal) I hit my head on it and when I was allowed to stand up (My trainer would always make us lay down for a minute before we were allowed to get up.) We walked over to the fence and it had a BIG dent in it! So my helmet save my noggin then and many more/other times as well!

The barn never fixed the fence so when I left I was like "well i left my mark at *******"


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## cowboy bowhunter (Mar 15, 2012)

I have never wore a helmet and never will. And as i some have said i just havent been thrown hard enough. My answer is yes i have. Just wont ware one. I know the risks of not wearing one but dont like them.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Want a story? OK...

My mare bolted. Got her stopped, and tried to dismount. Mid-dismount, she half-reared, spun 180 and bolted again. I flew off.

Happily, I was wearing my baseball cap!

Hurt my back some, and there was dust on my baseball cap...but no injury to my head! Who knows what would have happened if I hadn't been wearing my baseball cap! I think everyone should always wear a baseball cap!

:-x

FWIW, I usually wear a helmet, but I find anecdotal stories worthless for the same reason my story about my baseball cap saving me is worthless.


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## PaigeOfPaper (Jul 9, 2012)

I always wear a helmet, whether I'm walking around the barn on a 25 year old retired schoolmaster or a 4 year old green horse. I don't care if it's the safest horse in the world, a horse is still a horse and even if they've been predictable their entire lifetime, it just takes one thing to make a situation dangerous. That being said, I respect other's opinions--no I don't think it's wise at all not to wear a helmet, but that is your decision because it's your life and therefore your choice, not mine. 

I've fallen off once, a couple years ago, in 11+ years of riding. I was riding an older (17 or so?) OTTB mare who always leaned towards the slow side, and I was used to her and had been exercising her consistently for a while. Well, for reasons unbeknownst to everyone, she took over at a crazy gallop. Nothing spooked her; we were just having a nice canter like usual and she decided to take off. It was a haze for me, but I remember trying to gain some control and starting to try and take her in circles to control it, but she would have none of that and twisted and threw me in the opposite direction. I was riding in the outdoor so I fell off a 17 hand mare on what was pretty much finely crushed gravel... it hurt! My helmet showed no signs of damage, but sometimes those things are internal so I replaced it immediately. I didn't have any head damage or any soreness or anything, and it pretty much felt like my head brushed the dirt and came to a rest (I fell on my side), but it could have given me a bad concussion if I had hit it w/out anything between me and the ground 
Now what we need is hip protectors. Hips are usually an old people problem, but even us younguns riding horses can damage them  I couldn't put any weight on my right leg/hip for about a week, and it took about 3 weeks till it was just about back to normal xD


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## JazzyGirl (Mar 27, 2012)

bsms said:


> Want a story? OK...
> 
> My mare bolted. Got her stopped, and tried to dismount. Mid-dismount, she half-reared, spun 180 and bolted again. I flew off.
> 
> ...


I ENJOY reading peoples exsperiences, and enjoy the fact alot of people wear helmets. We are all entitled to our own opinion, as of mine for enjoying the storys. My reason for the thread, if you dont enjoy it then why read or post?


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## jinxremoving (Apr 6, 2009)

I wear a helmet because it doesn't affect how I ride and I can't see any reason to not wear one. If people don't want to wear a helmet, that's on them. I never look negatively on anyone who doesn't want to do something as long as it doesn't have an immediate impact on me. (Immediate impact being... me having to take care of them due to a head injury, or me having to pay for it.)

... at the end of the day, we're all (or mostly) adults and can do as we please knowing full well what the consequences are.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I wear mine and anyone who rides my horse wears one. 

That's all I'm gonna say.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm a bit of a hypocrite... I believe everyone should wear a helmet, but I often get on my boy without. I ride him in from the pasture in a rope halter and lead, bareback, with no helmet. I have an excellent emergency dismount, though, and if I feel threatened I get off. I also ride helmetless at the beach, if I intend not to ride along the sand (he is quite strong if I ride along the sand), because I don't like my helmets getting wet and salt water can damage the foam.

HOWEVER, I have had a very nasty fall, about a year ago, where I galloped my boy, then tried to pull him up and he wouldn't. In the process of doing whatever it took to get the result I wanted, I lost both my stirrups, and my balance, and had to give up on trying to pull him up if I wanted to stay on. There wasn't any room to circle him, with thick trees on one side and a deep ditch on the other, so I had to just let him run himself out. I couldn't get my stirrups back, and found myself sliding to one side. Eventually I was clinging desperately to the side of my horse, looking for a soft place to bail out. I lost my grip before I could find such a place.

I don't remember hitting the ground. I do remember getting up and walking after my horse, and I distinctly remember realising my arm was hurting horribly and thinking that I'd broken it (I had fractured my humerus, a hairline fracture just below my shoulder joint)... I don't remember getting back to the road, or getting into any cars. Next thing I remember, I was sitting in the front seat of an unfamiliar car, next to a guy I didn't know (idk why I remember he had short dark hair), thinking that if I wasn't so out of it I would tell him to stop and let me out. Don't recall getting to the hospital, or any of the time I was there. My pupils were different sizes for a week, and my helmet had a HUGE crack from front to back and scrapes with dirt embedded in them so badly I couldn't get it out. That could have been my head :/


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Blue eyed pony that is scary! I'm glad the man didn't turn out to be a creeper!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I know DA, I'm so so sooooo lucky! Although honestly even had he been a creeper I probably wouldn't have remembered :/

Mum said the guy's wife told her that they were driving down the road and saw my horse running up and down the road, riderless, and went looking for the rider.... idk how they found me as I was easily 2km away from the road (more than a mile), down a little-known trail, when I came off and I wouldn't have been able to walk far. Maybe Monty wouldn't let them catch him until he'd led them to me? idk... I hadn't had him hugely long at that point, but long enough that he knew where home was, so I'm actually amazed he didn't go home.

I honestly think I should have been kept in the hospital, all things considered, not sent home and told I was fine. A lot of oddness went on in that ER that day... Mum says the ER staff told us my helmet would be fine, and not to bother getting a new one, and the doctor who checked out my x-ray didn't see the fracture. We got a call a week later asking if my arm was ok because there was something that another doc who took a look at it was concerned about :/ (the hairline fracture!!)

the ER in my town is usually pretty good so idk why all that happened??


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## IRaceBarrels (Jan 21, 2012)

I wear a helmet about 80% of the time. Like blue eyed pony said when I'm just bareback riding around the pasture I don't wear one. Id just jump off the second something happened. I don't have a good enough seat to ride that stuff out saddleless. 
I got a nice concuion a few years back after hitting my head twice in one day. Of course I used to ALWAYS wear a helmet except for that one day. I lost vision in my right eye for about 12 hours and had to go to the ER. 
Now I wear a helemt when I ride at my barn. I used to wear it to gaming pratice but ketp getting crap for it. Now if I die I can gladly blame my friends  plus its 80°+ out there. My brain would fry up in the helmet. 
I think its everyones choice if they wear one. Its doesn't effect other people. Everybody knows the risk of riding so let them do their thing.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Temperature is no reason not to wear a helmet :/ I wear a helmet all through summer, except at the beach, even if I'm riding bareback, because my horse is at his silliest when it's warm (he is used to the heat, and so when it's hot is when he gets fresh)... We quite regularly have 100*F+ days for a month straight in summer and it's not uncommon for nasty head injuries from horse riding/motorcycle accidents to increase in the summer because people don't wear their helmets because it's hot! And because of the heat, LESS people ride over summer - many people spell their horses rather than ride in the heat.

Some people ride in the evening but it's also not uncommon for us to not have much of a temperature drop overnight! I'm talking overheating just sitting around beneath the fan in a bikini type hot. I've been there well after midnight before...


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## OwnedByAlli (Nov 8, 2011)

Round here its pratically unheard of for someone _not_ to wear a helmet. I always wear one when I'm going out on the road because the drivers can be complete nobs round here regarding horses :/ And I ahve a very visible bright pink cover with a yellow strip round it  In the field I generally go by the rule of, if I need a saddle for what I'm doing I need a helmet. Bareback- I think I've only worn a helmet once bareback, and that was mainly to keep the sun out my eyes haha

I don't see the point of having the option of wearing a helmet and not wearing it if you know your going to be doing something with extra risk factors- lorries, sooky horses on the side of the road etc, or if you are doing something wich requires better stickability- jumping or whatever.

Want a story regarding helmets..? Ok heres 2:
1) I was riding a grumpy gelding, Mini, at a riding school doing a jumping round. There was a grid on a diagonal which mini just would not go through. Fell off first right in front of the first part of it. Got back on, eventually got him through it and at the end he suddenly swerved the opposite way to what logic would dictate. I came off real hard and smacked my head. Tried to get beck on. Couldn't walk straight to horse. Still cant properly remebmer what exactly happened. If I hadn't had my helmet on, I may well have had a much more serious concussion

2) Someone else at the riding school, a livery, had a dissagreement with her horse and came off, hitting her head on the side of the school. The air ambulance came (much to my instructors distress!! Scared horses and small kids!) and took her away. If she hadn't worn a helmet, she may well have cracked her skull on the wall.


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## ARTEMISBLOSSOM (Apr 3, 2011)

I had a bad accident last summer my new horse from a complete standstill reared up and flipped over on me I was air lifted to the hospital with 8 broken ribs and internal injuries and a concussion. As I was laying in the ICU of the hospital I had a lot of time to think about the worry and pain I caused my family. I love horses and riding very much I can't give it up but I owe it to my family to be as safe as possible. I now wear a helmet every time I get on a horse and if I am riding my young green horse I wear a helmet and a body protector. I do this for my family as well as myself.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I would wear a body protector any time I'm jumping or on a green horse... if I had one!! I do really sorta need to get one but they look so awful on top of a jacket and I haven't found one yet that sits well underneath a jacket!

Edit; part of that is that my jacket is tailored and fits me really nicely, but most BP's I've found are really shapeless :/ and yep I am a bit overly appearance-oriented, but lucky I happen not to mind the look of a helmet so much, so I do wear one. Find me a nice-looking BP and I'll buy it, given the $$! (I actually do know one brand that sits nicely underneath a jacket but it's not as highly certified as most any other brand of jacket AND it happens to be significantly more expensive)


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## redclaybear (Jul 13, 2012)

YES!!! Ive fallen off jumping and hit my head on a jump before. Thank god for helmets. And my mom makes me wear one with Precious because she doesn't trust her cuz shes crazy. But with my gelding I dont, hes bombproof, but I still should.


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## roosevelt (Mar 12, 2012)

*I guess..*

Even though I am a newbie, i do understand that helmet is a mandate if you are riding a horse. You never know when it would jump off its feet, and you might very well fall down if you are unprepared. It is just a good way to protect yourself from any critical injury in such a scenario. Most of them are really comfortable too, and so you would not feel them as extra baggage on your head too.


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## englishaqh (Jul 6, 2012)

Hi, 
I do wear a helmet. The only times I have been on a horse not wearing a helmet was either when I was just walking around or taking a picture, pretty much. I've never had a real ride without a helmet, and I would never make a habit of it. 

I used to have a big habit of wearing my body protector all the time. I still have access to it for when I do want it, but I don't wear it much at the current time. I am doing mainly flatwork right now, and my current training (not 100% of the time but mostly right now) consists of walk/trot.


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## BlooBabe (Jul 7, 2012)

*I never wear a helmet. It’s really terrible form because I train all sorts of crazy and unbroken horses but I never seem to grab one. I don’t even own one. Although when I give lessons or have kids ride I ALWAYS make them put one on. *

*I’ve had probably 2 really bad falls in my 20 years of riding and even now I still don’t wear one regularly if at all. The first was when a friend of mine brought in this unbroken mean spirited gelding that really hadn’t had much attention paid to him to me for training. She was too afraid to do anything with him and hadn’t really filled me in on his background. On our first ride I got on him bareback, because I’m better balanced and have an easier time dismounting quickly without a saddle, and he completely freaked out. He bucked me around the ring a few times before flying around corners and when that didn’t get me off he attempted to jump the rail. He got caught half way over kicked his back legs flipped over the fence and landed on top of me on a hard packed dirt walkway. I remember the horse getting off me and stepping so close to me his toe grazed my ear and people rushing to me telling me not to move. I broke almost every rib, crushed a vertebra, fractured my pelvis, broke my nose, and lost my memory for something like 3 weeks. I was really lucky to live through it and I guess now I feel invincible so I don’t wear one. The other fall was on my gelding at a barn that had a ring attached to the barn so you walked down the aisle opened a gate and you were in the ring. I had him tacked up and asked him to trot, he though I asked for a gallop so he took off ended up bronco bucking and then rearing before I could catch myself and threw me through the gate and 40 feet down the aisle. The only thing that kept me from going further was a pillar that divided the horse entrance and the human entrance to the front of the barn. I was wearing a body protector so all that happened was some major road rash, a gnarly gash on my head that bled like the Mississippi, and some mild memory loss with a concussion. Tucking my head protected me from further damage. I tell people those stories when people tell me they don’t want to wear a helmet or don’t want to get laughed at.*


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## chrislynnet (Jul 8, 2012)

My son and I just started back riding with a leased horse and I spent all of this month's budget on his helmet and boots. (I mean, HORSE-related budget, not the whole thing LOL!) August 1 I'm getting one for myself. I wasn't going to because I've never fallen, but I'll be riding a lot more now than I have for years. And I'm 58 years old and don't fall nearly as well as I used to.


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## countof3 (Jul 16, 2012)

I guess if you "don't" the consensus is you're foolish. OK. I suppose depending on what I am doing I would. I'm not opposed to it, I have helmets but for the majority of my riding I don't, nor do any of the people I ride with.

Good news is you can go ahead and scold me I'm a tough old broad ;-) Well not quite old yet but probably to some here.


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## Reeltje (Jul 13, 2012)

I always wear a helmet when I get on a horse


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

I hardly every wear one. Last time I did was 3 years ago, and it just so happened I fell off that day, while on a hack and hit my head on a rock (rocks all over, couldnt avoid them) It cracked my helmet. Made me think, but haven't worn one since, but I haven't fallen off yet either :wink:


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## jcraig10 (Sep 14, 2012)

I always wear one. When I was about 10 or 11 I was riding my usual lesson pony that bucked me off and galloped around the arena every single time. This time though, we were riding in a small paddock and he was being the best he had probably ever been for me. 

Just doing a slow trot around the paddock and he tripped over something and he lost his balance, falling down. I fell over his shoulder and luckily he regained his balance before he rolled on top of me. I basically fell head first into the hard ground. Luckily I had my helmet on and only suffered a concussion. And the pony was okay too


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I rode without a helmet today -blushes- I never ride without a helmet, not properly, but I was just doing flatwork, horse had already been worked in the round pen and was behaving beautifully, and I can stick on when he trips. I was in no danger of falling!

My hair was loose and it drove me mad but cantering is the best thing ever, helmetless, hair flying out behind you and the wind in your hair!! hahahaha of course next time I come off I will probably swear I will never ride without a helmet again, but I feel bulletproof at the moment... am 18 and starting to get my old fearlessness back!


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

When I was younger riding crazy wild beasts yes...........now I'm at a cow horse/reining barn, well no....... shame on me, I probably should with all that activity, and if I do fall off and bonk my noggin, then it's all my fault and I'm the only one to blame.....
I'm sure it will be made compulsory one day at commercial type facilities, until then enjoy the wind blowing through your hair and the bugs flying into your mouth while your yelling yahooooooo!!!!


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

ive fallen on my back.. like butt, then back, and like whipp lashed my head INTO the ground. never a head first thing.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

barrelbeginner said:


> ive fallen on my back.. like butt, then back, and like whipp lashed my head INTO the ground. never a head first thing.


I know, I never seem to land on my head either, or else I can't remember falling on my head!! I shouldn't speak too soon though, you never know!


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