# Would You Buy A Horse That Killed It's Last Rider?



## Phantomcolt18

Hey so I don't know if this is the right place or not but if it isn't could it please be moved? 

I want to know if anyone would buy a horse that killed it's last rider? My friend is interested in a horse that they know killed it's last rider and they are considering it. The horse was(idk if it still is) a serious rearer and had reared and flipped onto it's last rider killing them. Personally I don't think my friend should go for it because I just think it's too dangerous. Also they don't have the time to put into the horse to train it out of rearing if it still rears. I'm just worried and don't want them to get hurt. :?

What do you guys think?


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## jdw

I am not a professional trainer (and there are a few good ones here) but I would pass without KNOWING he had killed someone with the rearing/flipping. I am interested to see what other opinions there are regarding this. I know there are just some horses that cannot be re-trained from this type of behavior, and perhaps some that can. It would take a professional to even evaluate this horse safely and accurately. If your friend won't listen about passing on it, maybe you can talk them into taking someone with experience with this type of problem to go along.


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## Northern

Phantomcolt18 said:


> Also they don't have the time to put into the horse to train it out of rearing if it still rears.


Since this is the case, THEY cannot figure out that they shouldn't buy it?!


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## lacyloo

Do all you can to talk her out of it...Thats all I can say.

Sounds like this horse needs to be in a bag of alpo, like yesterday. 

Sounds cruel but that is a very dangerous behavior, I know several trainers in my area that will refuse to touch a known flipper.


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## Phantomcolt18

I've been trying to talk her out of it...she says that they told her he hasn't reared since the accident (probably cause everyone was too scared to get on his back!) and that she can handle it. ~Sigh~ this girl is 16 yrs old with not nearly enough experience to take this on. Her parents are non horsey so they go with what she says and no matter what I tell them she goes and says it's not true. Heck she wanted to buy my BO's WP prospect who HATES jumping and jump him 3ft off the bat when he hasn't been trained then she threw a hissy when my BO wouldn't sell him to her because he wont jump and hasn't been trained to and he didn't want her or the horse hurt.


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## Allison Finch

Many vices are easy to fix. While I have retrained some rearers, some will never be cured. I would discourage it for her and would even pass on it for me. Too many good safe horses out there.


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## tinyliny

I am sorry, but that is just too creepy for me. I would not buy that horse in ahundred years.

to me it's like, would you buy a house in which someone had been murdered?


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## Tasia

Well I would straight up tell her no that horse is dangerous and you are not ready to handle a dangerous horse.
The owners may have put her spine out of wack or her teeth need to be done. You never know but the horse should be evalulated by a vet before being put on the market.


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## Katesrider011

Talk her out of it and pray she listens to you. 

I'm curious as to what would cause it to rear. I always thought it was something bothering the horse bad to cause it to rear. Was it just cause it didn't like to be ridden or was it in pain? I'm not gonna say it needs to be dead before I know why it's rearing.


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## lacyloo

From what I understand, horses tend to start rearing out of confusion, frustration or pain. If the situation is not properly handled, the horse learns how to get out of work by becoming a chronic rearer or flipper.

Now this may not be true, its just from what I have seen and heard. I could be 110% wrong...


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## lacyloo

_From my own experience..._
I pushed my green horse to far, to fast. I asked her to flex to the left side and held steady pressure on the rein, I recall the typical warning sign as pinned ears, thats it. She immediately went up and over with me. I shook the dirt off and asked myself "what did I do to cause this" I stood there for a second, checked her out and got right back on. I changed my tactic and within 10 minutes I had her flexing perfectly to both sides.

She did it because of me, she was confused and frustrated. I put no blame on the horse... Luckily she never flipped again, I took everything slow with her from then on. 

Some horses react differently from others, I do wonder if the horse in question has had a vet check thought?


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## Katesrider011

lacyloo said:


> _From my own experience..._
> I pushed my green horse to far, to fast. I asked her to flex to the left side and held steady pressure on the rein, I recall the typical warning sign as pinned ears, thats it. She immediately went up and over with me. I shook the dirt off and asked myself "what did I do to cause this" I stood there for a second, checked her out and got right back on. I changed my tactic and within 10 minutes I had her flexing perfectly to both sides.
> 
> She did it because of me, she was confused and frustrated. I put no blame on the horse... Luckily she never flipped again, I took everything slow with her from then on.
> 
> Some horses react differently from others, I do wonder if the horse in question has had a vet check thought?


That's what I was thinking. Perhaps a vetcheck would be useful. I'd still stay away from the horse though considering the creep factor. *Shudders* Like tinyliny said That's like buying a house that someone was murdered in.


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## Gidget

I wouldn't!

Even if I was an experienced rider for 50 yrs...heck to the no!

I agree with lacyloo...alpo....it does sound mean but I won't be risking my life like that.


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## Kayty

Nope. Especially if he is known to be a chronic rearer. Once off, I could deal with and see if there's a factor causing it. But IMO there are too many good horses in the world to waste your time with the bad ones. This is going to sound awful to many, particularly the 'save all horses' type kids on here... but that horse would be on a one way road to the pearly white gates if it were in my hands. Rearers are dangerous, rearers that flip, are killers. Obviously - this horse has already killed someone. 
Tell your friend there are many more fish in the sea, and if she wants to buy this horse to 'play hero' or for the attention side of it... tell her she's being pathetic and overall, stupid.


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## faye

Nope, I wont get on anything that is known to rear.

This horse has killed someone with its problem so it isnt a minor rear either.


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## Kayty

Oh and another quick point for your friend to consider - even if she is a highly experienced, confident, professional trainer (which I am very much doubting). It's all good and well to say you've 'trained' the horse 'not to rear'. But in my books, once it's been a chronic rearer, it will always revert to that habit in times of stress, panic or discomfort. Even if the horse has an issue with your contact on the bit, it should not rear - unless you are of course, giving it no other option i.e. pulling back so hard that it's chin's on it's chest, while kicking the hell out of it. Then it's got no where to go but up. Otherwise, rearing is straight out dirty. My guy has a nasty habit of jacking in front, if that jack turns vertical, he will be off my property before he can take a breath.


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## Citrus

No way would I buy it nor would I let my friend do so without saying "what are you thinking??"


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## franknbeans

She is 16...or so you say-where are the adults in her life? Do they know this?


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## Phantomcolt18

Franknbeans - She is in fact 16. As I mentioned before her parents are non horsey people. I went over to her house one day(the day she mentioned the horse to me) and told her mom flat out I thought it was dangerous and tried telling her the dangers of it when my friend came in and said "Mom i've been riding for 4 yrs I can handle a horse like this. Please you know how good of a rider I am." And the worst part is her parents believe everything she says. And the worst part is she's keeping her trainer in the dark about this (I think I'll shoot him an email about it she'll be mad at me but I'd rather her be mad than dead)

(as a side note she's thinking of trying it out this week: my goal is to stop her before she does. I did however convince her to call the owner back and find out why he rears. I'll post that when I get that answer from her sometime this afternoon.)

Apparently she is not creeped out, her parents are not creeped out. I'm definately going to go over to her mom's house while she is at school and tell her about everything I think about it without any interuptions. My friend is desperate for a horse that she is just jumping on the first one's she finds. I'm going to explain to her parents about the "not all horse sellers are honest and will do anything to get rid of a horse" deal. 

I just don't want her hurt.


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## iridehorses

This sounds like a spoiled child (you said her parents just do as she tells them she wants to). I've seen this type of behavior with some kids my children grew up with and it never turns out good. You told her how dangerous it was to buy this horse, your BO refused to sell her a horse because she did what she wanted to regardless of being told not to. Sometimes you just have to step back. You told her the dangers, and her parents are of no help; she will do this especially because of the warnings.

As a last resort, you could appeal to the sellers.


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## Ray MacDonald

Yeah, I agree with the people on here. I might be willing to take on a rearer when I am older and have more experience, But I really don't think I would take one that flipped. The horse killed someone... I don't even think most PROFESSIONAL trainers would take this horse... 

You should really talk to her parents to prevent her from getting the horse because I know exactly what she is thinking. "Black Beauty" "The Black Stallion" "Purtty Mustang" I used to think like that too... Until I realized that horses are dangerous... and one that already KILLED someone! You can't save them all....


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## churumbeque

You couldn't pay me to take a rearer even if it hadn't hurt someone else. One good thing is maybe it will rear over and kill itself when it konks it's head. You can't fix stupid.


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## maura

I would say no, absolultely not. Rearing as a resistance is very hard to cure once learned, even by a professional with lots of time and patience. In another thread on this forum, I encouraged an experienced rider to take a chance on a horse that reared on mounting because I was fairly certain it was caused by previous bad handling. 

here's my personal scale -

Rearing out of pain or confusion - okay
stop the pain and confusion, build trust and good experience with the horse

Small, rears out of resistance - borderline
horse needs to be ridden by a bold, assertive rider, focusing on *forward*

Bigger rears, or established habit - no
requires a pro to fix, may always be a professional ride only

Rears and flips - NO
probably not worth the risk of retraining

Rears and flips more than once - Euthanize
a horse that cares more about resisting that it's own safety will always and forever be a dangerous horse, including to handle on the ground


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## Tennessee

churumbeque said:


> You couldn't pay me to take a rearer even if it hadn't hurt someone else. One good thing is maybe it will rear over and kill itself when it konks it's head. You can't fix stupid.


Gotta agree with you there.


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## farmpony84

some people think they can fix things. There is thought that if you flip a horse over on it's back it won't rear again, maybe she's thinking it really won't rear again. Or maybe she thinks with love or understanding or even proper training she can fix it. (this is me trying to understand her thought process)

As the owner of a rearer, I have made the decision that I will never buy or own a horse that rears again. I have had a rearer for 24 years and we've done everything to fix it and sometimes things just can't be fixed. I would not buy a rearer. Maybe you can print this thread. Of course I only read page one. If it's gone hot and people are degrading her later on then I would I would really think hard about her reactions before I show it to her.


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## Lonannuniel

in this situation, I would pass it by ~ _If _the rider had died of their own cause ( falling over a jump, or non-horse behavior caused) then I don't think I would be too concerned. However, this horse is dangerous. his rearing _could _be physical discomfort, but I've seen some plain old jerky horses out there, who may or may not break the habit. this horse is best placed in the hands of a VERY experienced professional. If this horse has a decent attitude when being handled on the ground, a pasture pal for an experienced horse family is a possibility.

The only 'plus' in this situation is probably his price tag, I wouldn't imagine they are asking a lot for him, if they are, I'm sure his price will shoot down in no time.


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## Speed Racer

OP, you've already tried talking to her parents. As you said, it's time to get her trainer involved. After all, he/she is going to be the one who has to deal with this nutcase of a horse the majority of the time.

Maybe another adult, especially an authority figure, can get through to her parents. 

This child has been riding for 4 years on what I'm going to assume are well trained, school horses. She has NO clue that there are horses in this world that are just flat out dangerous, and should never be ridden. A chronic flipper is one of those.

I've been riding for 33 years. No way, no how would I take on a flipper. That horse would be put out to pasture or euthed, depending on its ground manners.

There are far too many good, sane, safe horses out there to risk life and limb on one with a shady history.


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## MHFoundation Quarters

Wow, could I rant on this one. So if it gets long winded, sorry in advance. I tend to agree quite a bit with Maura's scale. If it is out of pain it is one thing, but this sounds like another thing completely. 

I have been training horses for 18 years, have a mom who is a retired trainer and a grandfather who is a retired trainer. I WOULD NOT TAKE THIS HORSE IF THEY GAVE HIM TO ME. 

I have re-trained a couple horses over the years that would rear, but nothing near as bad as this one sounds. It is not fun, easy or enjoyable in any respect. I would gladly take any bronc type bucker, bolter, charger, biter, kicker before another who rears. Some can be rehabbed, but most tend to revert to that as their escape method when in an uncomfortable for them situation regardless of training/fixing time. A dear friend of mine will never have children from one going over on her so I have a huge distaste for a rearing horse. If a client asked me to take on a rearing horse that had already killed someone, I would 100% turn them down. 

a 16 yr old, REGARDLESS of how good of a rider is, cannot possibly have logged enough training hours to deal with an issue such as that. I had already trained a handful of horses from start to finish at that age and I would have never considered one that had that problem and my mom most certainly would have stepped in had I thought I was "big enough" to deal with it. SHAME ON HER PARENTS for even considering it. They are giving their daughter permission for e.r. visits and possibly worse given he has killed one owner already.


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## MyLittleHunter

Eek, I hope you can get through to her to not go anywhere near this horse! I've ridden a milder rearer before and it was awful. After that I wouldn't touch any habitual rearer with a 50ft poll, never mind a flipper who has killed someone. 

Buckers, I've handled many of, rearers no. Doesn't help that I saw a 17.1h warmblood flip onto a rider once, almost killing them. I knew a woman who died from falling off at the walk without a helmet, horse riding has a lot of risks, why take on one as extreme as this? Ultimately the horse's behavoir will lead to it's own destruction. A woman at a barn I once rose at put down her horse because it kicked anyone who went within 5ft of it. It's a sad thing when a horse gets to this point.


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## faye

maura said:


> *Rearing out of pain* or confusion - okay
> *stop the pain* and confusion, build trust and good experience with the horse
> 
> Small, rears out of resistance - borderline
> horse needs to be ridden by a bold, assertive rider, focusing on *forward*
> 
> Bigger rears, or established habit - no
> requires a pro to fix, may always be a professional ride only
> 
> Rears and flips - NO
> probably not worth the risk of retraining
> 
> Rears and flips more than once - Euthanize
> a horse that cares more about resisting that it's own safety will always and forever be a dangerous horse, including to handle on the ground


I totaly agree with you, stan reared out of pain on me twice in 20 years, both times it was his saddle and both times adjusting the saddle stopped the behavior immediately. He fell into the first category.

I was at a show yesterday and rode a pony that fell into the second category. I was asked to get on a little childs pony that was playing up (refusing to go forwards, pony at its first show and it was horrificly busy, confidence thing I think). I got on, asked her to go forwards and we started going backwards. I tried the nicey nicey confidence building approach but she wasnt having it so I stuck my leg on hard and realy pushed her forwards (bigger rider can push harder then an 8 yr old) and she bounced the front end, it came a few inches off the floor before I got realy cross with her (rearers and nappy ponys get my temper going) and booted her, she shot forwards and then rode realy nicely she just needed to get moving forwards and out of the stuck in reverse mind set. Child then got on and the mare did a foot perfect show. I will add that this pony has never EVER reared before and they were only small (and on a 12hh pony not exactly threataning). I wont ride something that goes any further then that mare did.



MHFoundation Quarters said:


> I WOULD NOT TAKE THIS HORSE IF THEY GAVE HIM TO ME.
> 
> I would gladly take any bronc type bucker, bolter, charger, biter, kicker before another who rears.


Totaly agree and Ive been riding for 25 years (am only 26!). I would never touch something known to rear but will take on a bucker, biter, kicker, bolter or charger!


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## gypsygirl

as the previous owner of a horse that would rear and flip WEEKLY on the cross ties, i would never ever buy a horse that rears again. my old mare finally reared and flipped on me, luckily i lived, but it was a pretty close thing for awhile there, i was basically really really lucky. gave the mare away to someone i thought would handle it well, the lady ended up breaking her pelvis and let her daughter ride the horse, girl ended up with a broke collar bone -she kept rearing and flipping with them too. the people ended up breeding her - havent heard anything since. 

i have ridden known rearers since then, but once they start flipping over, i agree with others, time to euthanize.


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## faye

faye said:


> I totaly agree with you, stan reared out of pain on me twice in 20 years,


Sorry that should be 10 years! i only owned him 10 years!!


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## Delfina

As a pasture pet, yes. Anything else, no.

Considering I have small kids, not sure I'd even take one as a pasture pet though.


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## QHDragon

Wow yikes, your friend sounds like a spoiled brat that is going to get herself injured or KILLED. If she doesn't have the time or the experience to do this, then she shouldn't! And even if she did, if she were my daughter I would tell her HECK NO! Do her parents know that the horse killed its last rider? I would think that alone would deter any parent from buying a horse for their child, regardless of if they are horse people or not. Have you asked her trainer or barn owner to talk to her and to her parents? Maybe if an adult talks to the parents they will see how dangerous of a situation their daughter is potentially getting into.


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## AllThePrettyHorses

What. Is she. THINKING?

What is wrong with this child? WHY does she want a horse who rears, let alone one who has killed a rider?! WHY?!

This girl needs a slap upside the head, and that horse needs to be on the first truck off the farm to the slaughter house.

There are far, FAR too many cheap, sane horses for sale in this economy to even consider taking one with problems-especially with only 4 years experience.


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## dee

At 16, she is romanticizing the situation. She is already picturing herself curing this horse of rearing by love alone - just like in the movies. She's not mature enough yet, apparently to pick a proper horse out for herself - she's obviously over estimating her abilities and experience. 

Not only would I warn her trainer about what she's up to, I would bluntly ask her parents if she has enough medical insurance to cover the inveitable serious injuries she will likely incurr, and enough life insurance to cover her funeral expenses in case the horse lives up to his reputation.

If she's boarding her horses, or will be boarding, I would also tell the BO about the horse's past. I don't know of a responsible BO that would allow a horse like that on the property. The horse could hurt someone other than his dreamy eyed new owner, too.

Sorry if I come across as too blunt - but I've seen too many parents who believe their kids were superriders that end up taking care of the kids for the rest of their lives due life altering injuries from horses they had no business on.


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## usandpets

Phantomcolt18 said:


> ...Also they don't have the time to put into the horse to train it out of rearing if it still rears...


 With that I would say NO to them getting the horse.

However, to answer the original question of buying said horse, Yes.

Our first horse was a rearer. We had no clue as to what to do to train him at all, even just the basics. With some luck and some good people, he has come along pretty well and so have we. Our latest horse has been known to be a horse that will pull back when tied, and rear and go over backwards. She has been that way since she was about 2 and now she's 16. We've had her less than a 1/2 year. She has never gone over backwards with a rider on. Mostly it's when she was tied and she pulled back enough that the tie down broke. With patience, work and understanding her, she also is coming out of it. Maybe chock it up to luck, but even if the horse has little or bad training, it can be fixed in time.


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## Rachel1786

you could not pay me to take this horse, even when i was 16(i had also been riding for 4 years at the point) i knew realistically even at 16 what i could and could not handle and there would be no way now or then(i'm 25 now) that i would take a horse with such a serious behavioral problem. I considered myself a decent rider back then, tho i had never had formal lessons, but a dangerous horse would be something i never would have considered. When i was 17/18 the office manager at the vet hospital i worked at was trying to sell me her 2 horses, i couldn't afford to but another horse so i declined, after a few months of not being able to sell them she gave me the one, Skip, she told me he was a great horse that anyone could ride so i took him. The truth was that he sat for 5 years and when i started working him he turned into a chronic bucker, checked saddle fit, had a chiropractor come out, had the vet check him, he had no soreness issues, he was just a straight out jerk, august 1 06 i got on him, i was in the process of mounting him when he bolted bucked and then reared, causing me to crack a rib on the saddle horn and then falling off knocking the wind out of me, then on august 30th at our local fair my friend Jamie(who is a very experienced rider) asked me to ride him, i was hesitant, but finally said ok, i called out sick from work, and we tacked up the horses(i on my old man Blue) Skip was doing pretty good when all of a sudden he went into a bucking fit, he bucked about 6 times before she finally fell off and landed in front of him, he ran over top of her kicking her in the head(where he helmet didn't cover) and breaking her hand, she ended up taking a helicopter ride the the nearest hospital with a trauma unit, she had a concussion but luckily she was for the most part ok. Jamie had been ridding for for over 10 years and she still couldn't handle Skip....
She is going to get herself injured or killed if she thinks that she can train this horse, she is going to try to push him too hard too fast and he IS GOING to go over on her...Talk to her trainer, and hope that her parents actually listen to him, although i would think that her parents knowing the horse killed someone would be a red flag even if their daughter says she can handle the horse


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## dressagebelle

As a trainer myself, I would much rather deal with a horse that bucks, takes off, bites, has horrible ground manners, than one that rears. IMO its much easier to "cure" a horse from bucking, and much less dangerous than it is to "cure" a horse from rearing. Once or twice because of pain, or misunderstanding because I'm not asking something right is okay, I'll check it out, but if the horse has flipped over, even if he only reared once and flipped, definitely not, and if it rears every time someone rides it, then I would most definitely not. 
I'm currently working a 6 year old warmblood mare, that I believe was pushed to far too fast by the owners daughter (daughter has passed away, so I get bits and pieces of the story of what really went on), and she started by just stomping her back leg, twisting her head around, gnashing her teeth, and not going forward, then once she started going forward, and bucking/kicking out wasn't working to get out of work, she resorted to going up and almost over twice, and I SERIOUSLY got after her for that, and if she does it one more time I am going to have to politely tell the owner that I can not train her horse because of it. I will not put myself in that sort of position, and I am a little shocked that the owner is trying to sell the horse as ridable even with her disclosing that he is a rearer. I would get the trainer involved, let him know whats going on, and have him talk to the parents himself, but outside of that, I think that you have done everything you can to warn them off the horse, and tell them how dangerous it is. Its sad that they aren't listening to you, but unfortunately not to be harsh, they may need for the daughter to get injured before they will see reason, though even then they may just blame it on the horse. Even my parents who aren't particularly horsey people wouldn't have EVER allowed me to get a horse like that, and even now that I'm 26 and have my own training business, they would highly discourage my getting a horse or training a horse like that.


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## Phantomcolt18

ugh sorry trying to figure out how to multi quote


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## faye

dressagebelle said:


> Even my parents who aren't particularly horsey people wouldn't have EVER allowed me to get a horse like that, and even now that I'm 26 and have my own training business, they would highly discourage my getting a horse or training a horse like that.


My mum who is horsey would KILL me if I even thought of buying a Rearer! My father thinks I shouldnt be riding anyway! I've already done serious damage to my back from a horse summersaulting on me!


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## Phantomcolt18

> I did however convince her to call the owner back and find out why he rears. I'll post that when I get that answer from her sometime this afternoon.)


As an answer to this ...you ready for it.... they said they had bought the horse and it has always reared. They've had the horse for about 7 months(so they told her)



> This sounds like a spoiled child (you said her parents just do as she tells them she wants to). I've seen this type of behavior with some kids my children grew up with and it never turns out good. You told her how dangerous it was to buy this horse, your BO refused to sell her a horse because she did what she wanted to regardless of being told not to. Sometimes you just have to step back. You told her the dangers, and her parents are of no help; she will do this especially because of the warnings.
> 
> As a last resort, you could appeal to the sellers.


She is very spoiled. If her mom wont let her go to a show she freaks out about how much she hates her mom and what not. I'm like seriously your mom pays almost 60 bucks a week for your private lesson and then almost 200 dollars for shows.(I didn't say that to her when she complained about her mom but I was thinking it.)




> OP, you've already tried talking to her parents. As you said, it's time to get her trainer involved. After all, he/she is going to be the one who has to deal with this nutcase of a horse the majority of the time.
> 
> Maybe another adult, especially an authority figure, can get through to her parents.
> 
> This child has been riding for 4 years on what I'm going to assume are well trained, school horses. She has NO clue that there are horses in this world that are just flat out dangerous, and should never be ridden. A chronic flipper is one of those.
> 
> I've been riding for 33 years. No way, no how would I take on a flipper. That horse would be put out to pasture or euthed, depending on its ground manners.
> 
> There are far too many good, sane, safe horses out there to risk life and limb on one with a shady history.


Yeah I'm with you I emailed the trainer just before I responded to this thread. I hope he checks it soon...she has a lesson on tuesday and I hope he can talk to her then about it just bring up the danger of a rearing horse or something...you know what No. I honestly don't care if she gets mad at me for this...I'm possibly saving her life or serious injury. She'll get over it eventually at least I can say I tried. 

I also even offered to search for some good horses for her. He trainer even said he'll let her lease one of his horses for half the price and to not go out and buy one just yet. Does she listen nope. ~sigh~



> Wow, could I rant on this one. So if it gets long winded, sorry in advance. I tend to agree quite a bit with Maura's scale. If it is out of pain it is one thing, but this sounds like another thing completely.
> 
> I have been training horses for 18 years, have a mom who is a retired trainer and a grandfather who is a retired trainer. *I WOULD NOT TAKE THIS HORSE IF THEY GAVE HIM TO ME.
> 
> *I have re-trained a couple horses over the years that would rear, but nothing near as bad as this one sounds. It is not fun, easy or enjoyable in any respect. *I would gladly take any bronc type bucker, bolter, charger, biter, kicker before another who rears.* Some can be rehabbed, but most tend to revert to that as their escape method when in an uncomfortable for them situation regardless of training/fixing time. A dear friend of mine will never have children from one going over on her so I have a huge distaste for a rearing horse. If a client asked me to take on a rearing horse that had already killed someone, I would 100% turn them down.
> 
> *a 16 yr old, REGARDLESS of how good of a rider is, cannot possibly have logged enough training hours to deal with an issue such as that.* I had already trained a handful of horses from start to finish at that age and I would have never considered one that had that problem and my mom most certainly would have stepped in had I thought I was "big enough" to deal with it. *SHAME ON HER PARENTS for even considering it. They are giving their daughter permission for e.r. visits and possibly worse given he has killed one owner already.
> *


I agree with everything in this but the bolded parts stand out. She definately cant get in enough hours as she can only make it to the barn ONCE a week for one hour long lesson So there's no way she would even be able to train it.



> *At 16, she is romanticizing the situation. She is already picturing herself curing this horse of rearing by love alone - just like in the movies. She's not mature enough yet, apparently to pick a proper horse out for herself - she's obviously over estimating her abilities and experience.
> 
> *Not only would I warn her trainer about what she's up to, I would bluntly ask her parents if she has enough medical insurance to cover the inveitable serious injuries she will likely incurr, and enough life insurance to cover her funeral expenses in case the horse lives up to his reputation.
> 
> *If she's boarding her horses, or will be boarding, I would also tell the BO about the horse's past. I don't know of a responsible BO that would allow a horse like that on the property.* The horse could hurt someone other than his dreamy eyed new owner, too.
> 
> Sorry if I come across as too blunt - but I've seen too many parents who believe their kids were superriders that end up taking care of the kids for the rest of their lives due life altering injuries from horses they had no business on.


First bolding - Exactly she said she could do it. I have been riding longer than her and she tries to give me tips which don't work. Example Phantom is horrible at turning and she said she had a "turn" that could fix him. She got on him and he wouldn't turn for her so I made her get off. Then she showed me a video of what she meant. I told her that was called a roll back and Phantom can't/wasn't trained to do that. Her reply was "Oh all horses can do it naturally I see it all the time."

Second bolding - I emailed her trainer about it and I'm waiting for a reply but he would also be the one to board it and I KNOW he wouldn't let a rearer on his property. I've only met him a few times but we had some awesome conversations together. The thing I'm worried about is my friend lying about it rearing...she'll literally do anything. 



I have talked to her so much about this. I told her NOT to take the first horse that comes along. Wait and see and the right one would come along. She knows about my horrible experiance with my first horse. I was a big time rookie....no trainer, no vet check, no NOTHING. I heard about the horse, he was free, the next day he was at the place I would be boarding at. NO BODY told me this horse was dangerous they said I could game him no problem. Well his former owner who owned him before the guy who gave him to me showed up while I was brushing him one day and told me flat out "This horse will hurt me if I game him." Well no more than a week later that horse was Hell bent to kill me. Needless to say I was terrified of him and sold him and the worst part is I felt no remorse for it. She KNOWS this and what happened to me...she saw the pics of my injuries and knows what can happen. I learned my lesson and I'm trying to teach her....she just doesn't want to hear it. Maybe it will take something like what happened to me to scare her enough. I'm really scared for her. ~sigh~ I'm hoping her trainer gets back to me soon. I gave him my cell number so he can call me if he'd rather do that than email. It's a wait and see type thing now. But at least I cna say I did something.:-|


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## furandfeather

hi ,you could find out if the horse is a confirmed rear er ?or was it a one off,friend of mine broke her pelvis and legs on a youngster who did this just the once ,he was trying to get to a mare in front and she would not let him so uppppppppp he went and she pulled him on top of her , she never rode again ,so i would ask your friend to look into the horses history .good luck


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## MyBoyPuck

Too many good ones out there for sale to bother with one that rears. Way too dangerous.


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## Saddlebag

I'm wondering if she read the Black Stallion or similar horse book where a girl tames the wild beast. I broke a horse of rearing but I certainly didn't get on it. We set up situations to get a reaction if the horse couldn't have his own way. I harnessed him and drove him staying well out of harm's way. He got near his buddies and wanted to stay. I urged him on and up he went, only this time it was on my terms. I pulled him over onto his side. He came down with a pretty good thud. I made him get up and went on to the feed pan. Again he went up and again he came down. I spent two hours trying to **** him off to get him to rear but he was having none of it. The first time he didn't make the connection that rearing meant getting pulled over. The second time he made the connection. I tho't it might take a third but no. Later that day we saddled up, rode for two hours, and he was a complete gent. His owners and I stayed in touch over many years and until he died the horse never reared again.


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## Kayty

furandfeather said:


> hi ,you could find out if the horse is a confirmed rear er ?or was it a one off,friend of mine broke her pelvis and legs on a youngster who did this just the once ,he was trying to get to a mare in front and she would not let him so uppppppppp he went and she pulled him on top of her , she never rode again ,so i would ask your friend to look into the horses history .good luck


By the sounds of all of the OP's posts, this horse IS a confirmed rearer. In her first post she said he was known as a 'serious rearer', and a few posts above, she has said that the sellers/owners of said horse have told her that it has always reared.


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## smrobs

I wouldn't. Not no-way, not no-how. There are way too many good horses out there going for a pittance to the killers to deal with a horse that has already been confirmed as very dangerous. BUT, you said this girl is spoiled, all you can really do is voice your concerns to her and her parents. If they don't heed those warnings, then there isn't anything you can really do.

Some folks just have to **** on that electric fence themselves before they learn it's hot.


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## Deerly

Yikes :?

To the question "would you buy a horse that killed it's last rider" -- if it was some sort of tragic accident where the horse was not to blame, sure. Although I would feel awfully strange about it and it probably wouldn't be my first choice of horses.

To the horse you described where it has a dangerous issue that has already claimed a life? Absolutely not in no way shape or form would I get near that horse or let anyone I loved get near it 

I hope your friend doesn't get hurt.


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## Jessabel

Sure. I'd buy the horse and just keep it as a pet. It would be one less horse to end up in a feedlot, which is where it would probably end up eventually. There's no way in hell I'd ever try to ride the horse, though. Obviously.


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## CJ82Sky

maura said:


> I would say no, absolultely not. Rearing as a resistance is very hard to cure once learned, even by a professional with lots of time and patience. In another thread on this forum, I encouraged an experienced rider to take a chance on a horse that reared on mounting because I was fairly certain it was caused by previous bad handling.
> 
> here's my personal scale -
> 
> Rearing out of pain or confusion - okay
> stop the pain and confusion, build trust and good experience with the horse
> 
> Small, rears out of resistance - borderline
> horse needs to be ridden by a bold, assertive rider, focusing on *forward*
> 
> Bigger rears, or established habit - no
> requires a pro to fix, may always be a professional ride only
> 
> Rears and flips - NO
> probably not worth the risk of retraining
> 
> Rears and flips more than once - Euthanize
> a horse that cares more about resisting that it's own safety will always and forever be a dangerous horse, including to handle on the ground


i have to say im with maura on this almost 100%. i do use many non traditional methods such as animal communicators, massage, chiro, reiki and more to get to the root of issues. however the scale/description of rearing she gives above is a very good one.

some things can be corrected and retrained. other things - such as a horse who is not afraid to injure itself when upset/mad/resistent etc., is one that i will not touch in a million years and would recommend euthanizing for safety reasons.

in the specific case of your friend, a 16 year old imo should never have a horse that has reared so high as to go over backwards - regardless of outcome. the fact that the former rider passed away due to the accident reaffirms to me that this is an even bigger issue. i have heard of horses going over backwards as a freak accident (spooked, reared, stumbled, something like that). but a chronic rearer that has gone over is a bunch of red flags to me.

sounds like she may want the bragging rights of retraining a "killer horse" which sounds all sorts of cool when you're a teenager. the scary reality however is that there is a HUGE risk associated with that - one that includes a greater risk of death than retraining a horse with general issues, and so on.

i hope the adults in your friend's life have better sense than to let her go through with it.


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## faye

CJ82Sky said:


> i have heard of horses going over backwards as a freak accident (spooked, reared, stumbled, something like that). but a chronic rearer that has gone over is a bunch of red flags to me.


Yep, I've had stan nearly go over backwards because of an accident. He reared up due to pain from his saddle. Unfortunatly we were on slippy mud (XC course, training in the rain!) and he went up high, i was thrown (wasnt a stickable as I am now) but stan slipped with a hind leg and wavered. My instructor was 100% sure that he was going over and was shouting at me to roll away.
God only knows how he managed it but he managed to get his balance again and didnt go over but he was so close it was scarey. He was a very very powerful and well balanced horse which is probably what saved him from going over.

He scared himself that day as well.
I dont count that as a purposefuly dangerous rear, yes it ended up being dangerous because of the whole situation but he had absolutly no intention of going over backwards.


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## equiniphile

I have not read past the first page, so forgive me if anything is repeated or the issue has been resolved, but what makes her want a vicious horse if she KNOWS she has no means of training him? Assuming your friend is anything but a professional trainer, this could be the biggest mistake of her horse career. When it doesn't work out, who's going to buy a "killer horse"? A horse with this much trouble needs to be put down; that is the honest truth. It would be much, much different if she was a trainer or had a professional trainer available to work with him for a loonnnggg time. Even then, he may never be normal.

There's too many good horses in the world to waste time with dangerous head cases. Sounds horrible, but that's the reality of it.


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## Alwaysbehind

Nope....

And I do not understand why one would have to _buy_ this horse anyway? I would think the current owners would be giving it away.


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## HopalongCassidy

iridehorses- said "As a last resort, you could appeal to the sellers." 

And i agree with him. If she won't listen nor her parents then got to the owner and tell them she's not good enough to even try riding a rearing horse. Hopefully the trainer can talk her out of it. And if the owner won't listen then tell him/her if she can live with the thought of a 16 year old girl dieing from a horse that i told you she couldn't handle. 

How much are they wanting for this horse?
What kind is it?

I want to know more about the horse and if you can get pictures. I want know everything you know about it from head to hoof. Also it's pedigree. That is if you can get any of this.


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## equiniphile

smrobs said:


> Some folks just have to **** on that electric fence themselves before they learn it's hot.


 :lol: Mind if I steal this for my sig?


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## Katesrider011

I'd take the horse as a pasture pet if I could, just to keep it from death. I do not think the horse wanted to kill the rider, it just wanted him/her off. Not saying it's appropriate for it to rear though. I'm not the type that's like behave or die. Some horses don't like to be ridden, and I feel that it should've been left alone in the first place if it reared up so many times. I would not ride this horse for anything, but I wouldn't kill it immediately either. I'd at least attempt to find someone who'd keep it as a pasture pet before I put it down, cause sounds to me the only time it's really dangerous is if you ride it.


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## HopalongCassidy

Doesn't tie-down expose to help with a horses rearing problem. 

They should of tried that instead of letting it get worse.


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## smrobs

equiniphile said:


> :lol: Mind if I steal this for my sig?


LOL, saw that in another thread and got a good chuckle out of it.


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## Phantomcolt18

Okay so as I mentioned earlier I had emailed her trainer yesterday...here was his response and I am VERY happy with it.

I starr-ed out the names of my friend and her family.



> _Cassie, I cannot thank you enough for letting me in on this detail that ****** has been keeping from me. I have told her countless times that I will lease out any of my lesson horses to her for half the price of a full lease but with all of the perks of a full lease. The fact that she is trying to pick out a dangerous horse is shocking because she knows the risks and she knows how much I voice safety to all of the riders in the barn, no matter how experienced. _
> 
> _I can assure you I will and would not allow this horse to step foot on my property as I will not have a chronic rearer in my barn. It is a serious danger to her as well as a danger to me, my staff, and the other boarders of my barn. Again I cannot believe she would even consider this without consulting me first. I hope she wasn’t planning on lying about the horse to get me to allow him to be boarded here, but from what you have described to me I have no doubt that’s what she was planning on doing. _
> 
> _I was wondering how ******** (her mom) was considering this until I read the part where ****** intercepted your warning towards her mother and claimed she had enough experience to deal with it. I will definitely consult with ******** on Tuesday after ******’s lesson. I will also have a serious conversation with ****** about this situation. She does not have nearly enough experience to deal with this sort of thing and the fact that she believes she does is a little concerning for me. _
> 
> _If she goes behind my back and buys this horse she will be suspended from my lesson program until further notice and she will not be allowed to bring the horse here or to any of the shows hosted by our show circuit. Eventually she will have to realize her mistake because I know most of the farms in the area will not allow a rearer in their barn. _
> 
> _Unfortunately, in order to address this issue to her I will have to bring up the horse and everything you’ve told me about it. Since you seem to be the only person who is concerned about this issue she will most definitely find out it was you who warned me. I am not one to cause problems with friendships but as you understand, being a rider and horse owner yourself, safety is the number one concern. Again I am pretty sure you understand this. _
> 
> _Thank you again for warning me, and I will email you after ******’s lesson on Tuesday to let you know how everything went. I am sure you are prepared for a storm to come if it does. And please if she threatens you in any way about this issue DO NOT HESITATE to call me at (***) ***-**** and voice your concerns as I will not tolerate that behavior and she will be addressed as soon as possible. Also do not be hesitant to email or call me if you find out that she is seriously thinking about going through with the buy even after I talk with her and her parents. _
> 
> _Again I cannot thank you enough for this warning. _
> 
> _Take care,_
> _***** *********_
> _****** ** ***** Farm _


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## equiniphile

Wow, that's excellent that the BO is so willing to help. Good luck!


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## Cali

Phantomcolt, good for you! I'm so glad your letter to her trainer was well recieved!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dee

Phantom, I am so glad you took a stand. It will undoubtably put a strain on your friendship, but better to have a live friend who is mad at you than an injured/deceased friend that was allowed to do something stupid. When I was a teenager, I "ratted out" a friend who was experimenting with drugs. It caused some pretty serious problems between us, and between her druggie new friends and me. However, in the end, our friendship won out over the drugs and her "cool" crowd. We are great friends still, 40 years later.


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## Phantomcolt18

Cali- Thanks me too. I am prepared for her to blow up at me but I really don't care somewhere down the road she will realize I did this for her own safety. He'll let me know Tuesday after her lesson how it went....I'm praying she doesn't get to me first but if she does I will be ready.


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## Ray MacDonald

So great that he e-mailed you! And I well written one at that! Good luck with the hell storm you will be put through after her lesson! Update soon.


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## dressagebelle

I too am very glad that you took a stand, and didn't let one "bad" conversation with her parents make you give up trying to explain the dangers. That is one awesome trainer, to have taken your letter so well, e-mailed you back, so you know that he got it, and is going to do something about it. I too would much rather have a friend mad at me because I did everything I could to try and keep her safe, then give up after having conversations that didn't go anywhere with her and her parents. Hopefully the trainer can get through to her and her parents, definitely keep us updated, and if not, then at least she won't have many choices of places to go, and trainers to work with. Might help her pull her head out of the clouds.


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## JustDressageIt

Nope. Horse would be feeding a hungry person if it were up to me. I've dealt with a few chronic rearers, and to me there is nothing scarier but that moment when they go up, and you're wondering which side they're going to land on. I've wised up since those days and will stay away from a chronic rearer. 
The horse economy is so poor right now that you can get a well-broke, pretty as you please horse for a few hundred.... Why would anyone risk their lives trying to play the hero?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MHFoundation Quarters

Way to go Phantom! Glad the BO was so receptive and smart about it! Of course your friend will have a fit and get mad at you, but she will get over it and eventually figure out that you pardoned her from a death sentence. Hope it all works out!


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## Scoope

thats great that he's received your concerns so well and is going to do something about it


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## franknbeans

:clap::clap:Kudos to you Phantom. It is truly a rare thing to see someone your age willing to go to this extent for something you believe. I congratulate you, (and your parents:wink for doing a great job. I will also say that that is the kind of BO and trainer we all hope to have for us, our horses and our kids.

Stand firm on your beliefs, and don't let her get to you. You know we are all here to support you if you need it. She is a spoiled brat, and it is really sad that from the sounds of it her parents are more willing to throw $$ at the issue than spend time and devotion it takes to really parent.

Again-pat yourself on the back. You did a great job.


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## HopalongCassidy

Well done! Hope she will understand in the long run what you did for her. Cause once she finds out after that talk Tuesday your in for a ride of you life. To me she sounds like a person that won't stop at getting kick out of boarding from where she boarding know. 10-1 she will still get him even if the trainer says no. Hopefully he'll tell her that she probable won't be able to board at any other stable so that should give her something to think about. Also the show. 

Sorry one quick question. Have you see him? Another words is he a real looker. Hopefully she doesn't want him because he has nice looks. She may just be trying to show off to friends. Bad way to get hurt. I learned that. Good thing i wasn't on a horse trying to show off though.


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## Phantomcolt18

Thanks guys. I really only did it for her safety and I hope she can get her head out of the clouds long enough to understand this. 



HopalongCassidy said:


> Sorry one quick question. Have you see him? Another words is he a real looker. Hopefully she doesn't want him because he has nice looks. She may just be trying to show off to friends. Bad way to get hurt. I learned that. Good thing i wasn't on a horse trying to show off though.


I have no idea what he looks like. She just told me he was 11 years old, 16.2 hand, chestnut TB/oldenburg cross and they want $700 for him. Then she told me about the rearing and what the owner had told her when she called to ask about him. Doesn't sound like anything special to me. Surely nothing to get you noticed unless she wants to be noticed for the rearing. :-(


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## JustDressageIt

While I am glad it all worked out, I am absolutely floored at the BO's response. I am shocked that she spoke so poorly of a student to another student. She should have, in my opinion, thanked you for the information and said it would be dealt with -no details, and certainly not saying things like "it doesn't surprise me" and "I wouldn't put it past her to lie."
Wow.
OP, you were right in emailing her and I give you major kudos for that. I am just absolutely stunned by your BO's response. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phantomcolt18

JustDressageIt said:


> While I am glad it all worked out, I am absolutely floored at the BO's response. I am shocked that she spoke so poorly of a student to another student. She should have, in my opinion, thanked you for the information and said it would be dealt with -no details, and certainly not saying things like "it doesn't surprise me" and "I wouldn't put it past her to lie."
> Wow.
> OP, you were right in emailing her and I give you major kudos for that. I am just absolutely stunned by your BO's response.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know if you misunderstood. I'm not one of this trainers students. I have met him a few times and each time we have discussed matters about horses and everything else as adults. Everything in his email is mirrored from what I wrote as my concerns in my email to him(except my email to him was longer listing more concerns about the issue.)

I should also mention(i didn't feel it was necessary earlier) that the reason my friend is now at this barn(and has been for a yr and a half) was because she was kicked out of her last barn for bad mouthing the owners and trainers there. Her trainer knows this because he used to be friends with the former barn owners and knows what to expect from her. 

I'm sorry if you misunderstood about me being a student of his.


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## JustDressageIt

Regardless, a trainer is talking poorly about a student of his. I'm shocked he would say any of this to anyone other than a friend he was venting to. 
You didn't do anything wrong - I'm appalled at the trainer's response to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tasia

Great job Phantom! You go girl!


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## MyBoyPuck

Holy crap, this horse is for a 16 year old?? That's insane. I sure hope your friend changes her mind and goes for a fancy car instead. It's a heck of a lot safer than a horse that flips itself over.


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## Hali

I too am quite surprised at the trainers response. You contacting him was the best possible thing you could do to help your friend, but his reply was so unbelievably unprofessional that I would be wary of contact with him regarding your friend in the future - even if she was in danger. He should not be dragging you into the issues between him, her and his barn. He should have thanked you for the information and left it at that and dealt with her and her family quietly. 

Again, I think YOU did good in contacting him. And I hope, for her safety, your friend is persuaded out of buying this horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CJ82Sky

Phantomcolt18 said:


> Cali- Thanks me too. I am prepared for her to blow up at me but I really don't care somewhere down the road she will realize I did this for her own safety. He'll let me know Tuesday after her lesson how it went....I'm praying she doesn't get to me first but if she does I will be ready.


i applaud you for the letter - and for putting genuine well being for your friend above shallow parts of friendship (what's "cool" or what she wants). i hope it all works out well!


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## RedTree

Depending on how the last rider died... like if the horse was a rearer I would stay well clear, but if it was just a freak accident, like going over a jump and the worst happened, don't see why not.
Although the horse may be traumitiesed, I don't know if they can but if my rider died I would be so I would probably leave it....
But if the horse was still sain and wanted to please...


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## Golden Horse

Phantomcolt18 said:


> Thanks guys. I really only did it for her safety and I hope she can get her head out of the clouds long enough to understand this.


Rather hoping that she can get her head out of the clouds than hoping she didn't end up sitting on one!


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## RidingTowardsGrace

Subbing to see how things turn out.
This is crazy. SHE is crazy 
My concern now though is that she may be thinking everyone is going against her(which you all are in a way, but you have to) and will want to 'prove' herself. She will probably just get fed up with it all and say, "Oh to heck with you all, Ill show you!" And then end up hurting herself. If she thinks she can handle these types of horses (which rarely can anyone!) maybe her trainer should plop her down on one of the more advanced/difficult horses and give her a good taste of it all, and explain that the horse she's looking at will be hundreds of times worse. 

This kind of makes me think of when people call riding horses and jumping easy. Especially guys at school. Makes me want to throw them on the horses I ride just to see them hang on for dear life and plop on their butt pleading for mercy  but that's beyond the point....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve

I see that everything worked out, and I am glad to hear it. I just want to throw out my two cents anyway. I wouldn't necessarily rule out a horse that's killed it's rider. Accidents happen, a horse can buck it's rider off, they can land wrong, etc etc. A chronic rearer is way over the vast majority of equestrians heads'. At 16, I'm sure I thought I could handle it too. Now I know better. A bucker, a runaway, I can handle. A rearer, not so much.


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## MissH

Subscribing to see if there is any follow up to this thread.


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## ptvintage

JustDressageIt said:


> While I am glad it all worked out, I am absolutely floored at the BO's response. I am shocked that she spoke so poorly of a student to another student. She should have, in my opinion, thanked you for the information and said it would be dealt with -no details, and certainly not saying things like "it doesn't surprise me" and "I wouldn't put it past her to lie."
> Wow.
> OP, you were right in emailing her and I give you major kudos for that. I am just absolutely stunned by your BO's response.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Yeah I have to agree with this, I was stunned by that. It's unprofessional to speak so poorly of her client. If I emailed a random trainer with any concern, the response I would have expected back would be something like "Thank you for this information. It is concerning, and I plan to look into it." 

But yeah, that's not on you Phantom. I think you did the right thing, and while your friend may be a little upset, I think she'll be much happier when she finds a safe horse to work with. She's probably excited about the prospect of getting a horse that she's acting like the bad parts are no big deal. I hope she'll understand it was done out of concern and so that you won't have to worry about not having her around in the future.

And to answer the original question, I would not. I might consider it if the horse hadn't been at fault at all, but most likely I would pass. I only have one life, and I'm not going to risk it on an animal like that.


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## Hunter65

wow cant wait to see what happens here


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## Alwaysbehind

I am just as shocked that the OP posted the trainer's letter as what the letter says.


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## faye

after todays experiance that has put me in hospital, and this with a perfectly sane horse that I was backing why the hell would you go for some thing known to be dangerous!


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## natisha

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am just as shocked that the OP posted the trainer's letter as what the letter says.


I don't think it's that bad. We don't know who the players are here. It sounds like the trainer was trying to reassure the OP that something would be done. Sure, she/he could have just said OK thanks but that maybe wouldn't have given the OP much comfort. Maybe the trainer likes to talk.
All that aside, if someone was bringing a horse to me & not being as truthful as possibly I would be very upset. Client or not they have no right to put my life in danger.
I see parents like those all the time. They don't want to hear that their child is making a poor choice & that they are making a mistake.


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## smrobs

Oh, no, Faye! What happened, if you don't mind me asking?


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## equiniphile

smrobs said:


> Oh, no, Faye! What happened, if you don't mind me asking?


 http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/****-****-****-owwies-82360/


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## smrobs

^^Thanks for the link.


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## MyBoyPuck

Just read the letter. You did a very good thing there by making the situation known. Everyone should have someone looking out for their well being like you did here.


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## Jessskater

tinyliny said:


> I am sorry, but that is just too creepy for me. I would not buy that horse in ahundred years.
> 
> to me it's like, would you buy a house in which someone had been murdered?


I wouldn't buy a horse that has killed someone but I do live in a house where someone was sniped in my living room about 60 years ago.:shock:


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## Ali M

I disagree about the letter. Sounds like they all know each other and have a close, honest relationship. While the trainer could have just said thanks and left it at that, they were concerned for the OP enough to warn them that the information would most likely to be traced back to her, and to expect some backlash for it. Sounds like this girl has a reputation as a liar as well. Even lying about something this dangerous!


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## Scoope

jesskater - I had somthing similar - at the uni dorms a few years ago a student hung himself in the showers
allways made me a bit uncomfortable , very sad situation - I was glad when I moved out , how horrid that they were murdered in your living room though!


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## ArabianChic

> I want to know if anyone would buy a horse that killed it's last rider? My friend is interested in a horse that they know killed it's last rider and they are considering it. The horse was(idk if it still is) a serious rearer and had reared and flipped onto it's last rider killing them. Personally I don't think my friend should go for it because I just think it's too dangerous. Also they don't have the time to put into the horse to train it out of rearing if it still rears. I'm just worried and don't want them to get hurt.
> 
> What do you guys think?


I am not a professional trainer so right now I would not buy a horse that reared like that (killing its rider would have nothing to do with my decision. HOW it killed its rider would be my worry). It would be tempting to buy it though as I have a huge soft spot for the misfit/outcast/"problem" horses. A horse like that would most likely be put down or be sold to slaughter so I would be very tempted to "rescue" it. 
If I _was_ a pro trainer though I would buy it for the reasons above. 

For your friends though, since they don't have the time then I strongly suggest against them getting the horse. Getting a horse like that would be a HUGE commitment. If they don't have the time then the horse isn't going to get the help that it needs and somebody will end up getting hurt.


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## Jessskater

Scoope said:


> jesskater - I had somthing similar - at the uni dorms a few years ago a student hung himself in the showers
> allways made me a bit uncomfortable , very sad situation - I was glad when I moved out , how horrid that they were murdered in your living room though!


 Wow that must of been creepy..My house is about 100 years old and I have lived in it for nearly my whole life. So i'm used to it and everything.

OP: Sorry for going slightly off topic


----------



## natisha

ArabianChic said:


> I am not a professional trainer so right now I would not buy a horse that reared like that (killing its rider would have nothing to do with my decision. HOW it killed its rider would be my worry). It would be tempting to buy it though as I have a huge soft spot for the misfit/outcast/"problem" horses. A horse like that would most likely be put down or be sold to slaughter so I would be very tempted to "rescue" it.
> If I _was_ a pro trainer though I would buy it for the reasons above.


We don't know that it wasn't a pro that got killed. It could have been.


----------



## ArabianChic

> We don't know that it wasn't a pro that got killed. It could have been.


True, it could have been but I would still buy it. I mean its not like I am going to seek out horses that have killed their riders but if one came along that I knew was going to die if I didn't take it or one that I just had a feeling about then I would buy it.


----------



## Phantomcolt18

So I have an update..... I would have posted last night but I was a little too torn up about it and I didn't want my feelings to influence what I wrote on here. It definately helps that I got a phone call from my friend's mom this morning. :-| 

So basically as soon as she got home from her lesson she must have jumped on Facebook to get at me because around 9:30pm (her lessons end at 8:30pm but the barn is 50 mins from their house). I waited for her to talk to me instead of pursuing her.

The only thing I did to this convo was 1. take out the curses and added bleeps) 2. starred out any names involved. and 3. fixed the view of it because when I copied and pasted from the facebook chatbox it all clumped into one paragraph(thanks word processor)

Anyway here it goes. 



> ******: Wht the hell is ur prob!!!!!? Y the (bleep) would u tell *****when i told u not to?!?!
> 
> 
> ******: And dnt try to deny it i knw it was u!!!!
> 
> 
> Me: I’m not going to deny it. I did email ***** about the horse to let him know.But I only did it for your safety.
> 
> 
> ******: i told u i could handle it. How could u (bleep)ing ruin my chances like tht. U had no right! Now my mom wont even let me (bleep)ing look at horses tht r 4 sale cause of u!
> 
> 
> Me: ******. I’m not saying you’re a bad rider but u couldn’t have handled
> that horse. I couldn’t have even handled that horse and I’ve been riding way longer than you. My TRAINER wouldn’t even have taken on this horse. I told u I would help u look for horses but u went and did it yourself. Y don’t u just lease 1 of *****’s horses, they’re all really nice horses?
> 
> 
> ******: by saying tht u R telling me Im a bad rider. I dnt (bleep)ing care if u couldnt have handled it or not the point is IIIIIIIIII could have!!! Ur just a jealous (bleep). U dont want me to have a horse because u know the horse i get will be better than ur broken down old piece of (bleep)!!!! I (bleep)ing hate u right now. and i dont want to lease 1 of *****’s horses cause they all suck. Theyre not gonna take me to the top. U need to just stay the (bleep) out of it!
> 
> 
> Me: Ok well first off don’t you DARE talk about my horse like that he is NOT involved in this. And who cares if ur horse is better than Phantom in ur book. To me Phantom is perfect. Every1 has their view of perfect. And how are u going to say *****’s horses suck…..the one qualified for the Olympics for christ's sake. R u really that driven to make it to the top that ur willing to put ur LIFE at risk. WTH is up with that?! U have completely changed this passed yr and its making me worried.
> 
> 
> ******: Wateve ur just (bleep)ing jealous. If u hadnt opened ur huge (bleep)ing mouth I would have this horse at *****’s barn by this fri but NO u had 2 (bleep)ing ruin it 4 me!!
> 
> ******: Y r u always trying to hold me back! 1st i cant have ur trainer’s horse and now u ruined my chances at this 1!!!
> 
> 
> Me: I’m not trying to hold u back. I want u to get better but I’m NOT gonna sit around and watch u get hurt because of some horse that u don’t even see the dangers in!!! HELLO! the thing KILLED someone! I am trying to help u!! Y can’t u see that!
> 
> Me: My trainer said no for u to have his horse because the horse doesn’t like to jump or compete……… AGAIN we don’t want u or the horse hurt! I’m glad ***** was able to get through to ur mom because u wouldn’t let me talk to her about it! Look I still want to help u find a horse, I just don’t want u to get hurt. I hope u can understand that!
> 
> 
> ******: I dnt (bleep)ing want ur help. Ull pick out some loser horse that wont get me anywhere. I could have trained ur trainers horse to jump and we wouldve been goin 4ft easy in 2WEEKS! Tht horse wouldnt have reared with me because i would have stopped him before he did it. Stop (bleep)ing talking 2 me im (bleep)ing done with u!!!
> 
> 
> Me: ****** it’s not that easy to train a horse out of rearing! He KILLED someone he knows that if he goes up and over he’s done working….that’s what he learned…to get out of being ridden. Its not like he’s a young horse...... who KNOWS how long he’s been rearing he’s 11 he could have been doing it his whole life for all u know! Please please please take all this into consideration. I’m here if u want help looking for a horse.
> 
> 
> ******: Wateve have fun with ur (bleep)ing piece of (bleep) horse. im (bleep)ing done!!!


 
And after this she blocked me. A 6 yr friendship over, just like that. I had it at the back of my mind that it would come to this but I was hoping it didn't. 

I'm still really upset that she started to take it out on Phantom. He's not even involved, I never even mentioned him. She just knows what to do to hurt me. I'm going to miss having a friend to share my crazy love of horses with but at least I can say I possibly saved her life. She changed this year and I think a lot got to her head. 

Her mom called me this morning she apologized for not listening to me before. I told her it was okay and that if she ever has any questions about horses, no matter what happens between me and her daughter, that she can call me ot just ask me when I get my hair done(she's also my hairdresser)She thanked me and then reminded me I have an appt next thurs . We shared a laugh and hung up. 

~sigh~ I'm really bummed that her trainer didn't get through to her but I'm glad he got through to her mom. 

Still really sad and bummed out though


----------



## natisha

Cross that one off your friend list & good riddance too. 
You should be mad at her for cutting down your horse but she only did that as you said, to get back at you. You were not in the wrong here. She's being a baby who didn't get her way. She also didn't care who she put in danger-no one needs a friend like that.
Go & enjoy your wonderful horse. You did a good & brave thing.


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## lacyloo

Took the words out of my mouth, Natisha.


----------



## Alwaysbehind

natisha said:


> Cross that one off your friend list & good riddance too.
> You should be mad at her for cutting down your horse but she only did that as you said, to get back at you. You were not in the wrong here. She's being a baby who didn't get her way. She also didn't care who she put in danger-no one needs a friend like that.
> Go & enjoy your wonderful horse. You did a good & brave thing.


I agree!


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## equiniphile

I'm so sorry, that would be so hard. I couldn't imagine losing a friend after 6 years, but honestly, if she treated you like that....just let her go. You did the right thing, you did all you could. She's going to go find another nutcase to ruin even further, and it won't be your fault when she's in the E.R. Hopefully her parents can stop this from going any further. Don't take the comments on Phantom to heart, she obviously knows where to hurt.

*Hugs*


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## MHFoundation Quarters

Sometime it just plain ol' sucks to be the bigger person and do the right thing. Be proud of yourself for doing what was right. She will eventually see that you did this FOR her not TO her.


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## Hunter65

wow unfortunately the only way this girl is going to learn is when she does get hurt. I remember being young and invincible lol. Hopefully one day she will realize what you are doing for her, you are a good friend that put her safety above your friendship. I lost a good friend to a similar kind of thing and it did hurt for a while but then I came to realize I was probably better off this way. Go enjoy your horse and you will meet more horsey people, there are tons of us out there. :0)


----------



## HopalongCassidy

HEY! i like your horse. He's Beautiful. She doesn't know what shes talking about. She's so blind with being number one that she didn't she the danger in that horse. Also you can't make a horse do something if it doesn't want to. Another heart brake you saved her from. i'm glad her mother understood. It's the evil 16!! i tell you. I'm 16 and find my self being very different. but I've noticed she hasn't. She should be lucky to have a friend like you. I'd done the same thing. Hopefully she'll see that you help her. But if she has other friends. Well there just going to keep on reminding her what you did. hopefully they'll do it in a good way instead of telling her you did wrong.


----------



## ShireLover

I think you did the right thing even if it costs you a friendship. Plus I'm not sure how good of a friend she was to talk to you like that.


----------



## ptvintage

Wow... Two things that stand out to me about this -

1. She sounds like a huge jerk. Even if the rest of the time she's super sweet and nice (which I doubt), that reaction would be enough for me to say "no thanks, have a nice life."

2. Why are her choices, dangerous rearing horse, or "horse that sucks". Does a horse have to rear to be considered good? That seems to be what she's assuming. If you ever talk to her again, you should mention you aren't against her getting a project horse to work with, just against getting a dangerous project horse that killed someone. Maybe you could mention that to her mom when she does your hair. 

And that she thinks she can train a horse to jump 4 ft in two weeks? Ugh...she might be able to get it over 4 ft, but she won't have done it correctly... I hope she loses that way of thinking. 

I do sympathize with you Phantom. You really did the right thing, and it's a shame she didn't see it that way. Ignore the mean things she said about Phantom, she just knew what would hurt the most and was trying to manipulate you and make you feel bad. Don't give it any thought. 

I hope you find some other local horse friends there. If she's going to treat you in that manner, she doesn't deserve the honor of being your friend.


----------



## goldilockz

You did the right thing. Someday she'll see that, it just might take a long time. She KNOWS in the back of her mind somewhere that the horse isn't right for her, she just refuses to admit it because she's so bent on getting a horse, ANY horse.

And booooo on her for insulting Phantom.


----------



## Speed Racer

Spoiled, whiny little brat with delusions of grandeur, and Black Stallion Syndrome.

Not worth keeping a friendship with someone like that.

Glad her mother realized you're not the bad guy in all of this.


----------



## Walkamile

My thoughts exactly SR! I see many a horse ruined and "blamed" for her not climbing the ladder in competition as quickly (or at all) in her future.

When someone shows you their low character, take them at their word and don't excuse it for reasons like "she's just upset". True character comes out in moments of stress and challenge. She's shown her's, walk away , quickly.


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## dressagebelle

I'm glad that you stuck through it, and did what you did knowing it could come to this. Honestly I have to agree with everyone else, good riddance to her. She is so **ll bent on getting to the top that she's not looking out for anyones safety, her's, the horse's, or anyone else who might be involved. She is full of herself, and hopefully someday will climb down off of her high horse, and realize that life isn't all about one upping your friends, or getting to the top no matter what it takes. I would see what other horse people are around the barn that are your age, and befriend them, and start to go out on ride with them. I would just take a breath, and remember that you did all you could, you managed to keep her from getting this horse, and helped her parents see the light, and now its out of your hands. If she doesn't want to listen, then well there's nothing left you can do. You are a great friend even if she doesn't want to admit it.


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## Phantomcolt18

Thanks guys....yeah normally she's all nice and kind but when she gets mad she FLIPS. And she's flipped on me a few times. I had stopped talking to her before because she was spreading rumors about people around school...but then gave her another chance...she's not getting another chance this time even if she comes back on her knees begging. I think the sadness part of this situation is leaving because now I'm just mad about how she talked about Phantom(meaning has she always felt that way about him?) and because she can't see with her own eyes why I told her trainer. She lost in her world like what SR said "Black Stallion Syndrome"

It's a shame but I'm glad I have her mom on my side so hopefully she wont even think about going after a horse that is way out of her level later on...or at least till she moves out.


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## Walkamile

Phantom, usually when people put down something someone else has (and they do not) it is out of spite, envy and jealousy. I don't believe she thinks your horse is a nag(and truly doesn't matter if she does), but used hurtful words because 1. she knew it would hurt you (nice friend in that alone eh?) 2. is jealous that you have a horse and a good relationship with the horse. Sometimes people accuse you of the very things they suffer from (jealousy).

Shrug it off best you can, and don't hold her pettiness and cruelty against her, but except it as part of who she is. Not someone you really want in your life as a friend.


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## Cali

I'm sorry that she's being so immature, but know that you did the right thing. She only insulted Phantom because she knew it would bother you. Everyone knows Phantom is lovely. :]


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## my2geldings

Phantomcolt18 said:


> Hey so I don't know if this is the right place or not but if it isn't could it please be moved?
> 
> I want to know if anyone would buy a horse that killed it's last rider? My friend is interested in a horse that they know killed it's last rider and they are considering it. The horse was(idk if it still is) a serious rearer and had reared and flipped onto it's last rider killing them. Personally I don't think my friend should go for it because I just think it's too dangerous. Also they don't have the time to put into the horse to train it out of rearing if it still rears. I'm just worried and don't want them to get hurt. :?
> 
> What do you guys think?


The fact the horse killed someone doesn't bother me, because its not a common regular thing. It's a danger you agree on when you ride ANY horse. The fact the horse is a rearer is what I'm concerned about. Does she have the experience to deal with a rearer?


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## Ray MacDonald

Good job Phantom! And she isn't a friend let alone a good friend. But I am very pleased at how the mother handled things! And hopefully you continue to have a good relationship with her  Have a good time getting your hair done! I'm jealous! I am in serious need of a hair cut!


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## AllThePrettyHorses

I second my earlier opinion that this girl needs a slap upside the head. What a whiny little arrogant brat.


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## smrobs

Phantom, I'm sorry that you lost a friend over this, but if she was so quick to shut out your opinion and flip out on you like that, she wasn't a very good friend to begin with. You did the right thing by talking to everyone you needed to talk to in order to keep her safe. :hug:


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## Ali M

Having her yell at you and insult your horse is better than sitting at her bedside in the hospital (or worse). If she ever does get to the top, it will be because you most likely saved her life!!


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22

Good on you for sticking it out. You saved her life, and she was being a disrespectful girl. I feel very sorry that you lost such a long friendship, but sometimes things happen for the best. That horse would not have taken her to the top, and you were smart enough to prevent her from getting herself in a dangerous situation. Good on you! 
You are not in the wrong, and one day she will open her eyes and realize just what you have done for her. 
I hope it all turns out the best for you. Remember: Phantom is an awesome horse which she is jealous of. That is most likely why she brought him into the conversation. 
Don't let this experience get you down to much, you did the right thing.
All the best for the future!


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## Clair

Hot post! I wanna weigh in. I think its a possibility Id buy the horse. Riding is an inherently dangerous sport. It would depend on the horse as well. Its not as if he INTENDED to kill anyone. It could have been a freak accident and that's an understood risk of horse riding. There's no reason for him to be wasted due to superstitution. 
On the other hand if he was a violent, malicious animal.. I've never met one but won't doubt their existence... Then maybe its a different story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nworkman82

I know the feeling of being alone in your equine pursuts. But from I see on here you got alot of people to share your triumphs and mistakes... And who will support, sympathize, and encourage... Even if we all are hundreds of miles apart. You did the right thing... She was (and still is) making poor choices. Don't let her faults weigh on you. They are her burden to bear and she'll feel the weight of them in time. Btw. Your horse is adorable. Although it does not apply to yours, cuz he looks great to me, sometimes the best horses are the fugly ones. They burrow right into your soul and soon you can't see anything but their beauty. A true horse person knows that and has been blinded a time or two... And they are better for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## faye

Clair, this horse is a confirmed rearer who regularly goes over backwards. Yes riding is inherantly a risk sport, lord knows I've had my fair share of injuries, I'm currently nursing a suspected broken scapula curtasy of a young horse that freaked out on me. 

So please tell me why on earth you would make it even riskier by taking on a horse with a problem that has been confirmed and is extremely dangerous. 
Infact I would concider Rearing as the MOST dangerous issue a horse can have.


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## Katesrider011

Clair said:


> Hot post! I wanna weigh in. I think its a possibility Id buy the horse. Riding is an inherently dangerous sport. It would depend on the horse as well. Its not as if he INTENDED to kill anyone. It could have been a freak accident and that's an understood risk of horse riding. There's no reason for him to be wasted due to superstitution.
> On the other hand if he was a violent, malicious animal.. I've never met one but won't doubt their existence... Then maybe its a different story.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think it was his intent to kill the rider either, but it IS a dangerous horse. If you wanted it I'd take it as a pasture pet, not to ride cause like I said earlier The horse only sounds dangerous while being_ ridden._


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## HopalongCassidy

I agree with Kate but i wanted to add, That it said " It's a confirmed rearer." Just like Faye said. 

Every time you get on it, it will rear. Maybe flip the first time or even the second. but it's most likely to flip. So no use of even trying. Pasture pet it is.


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## lilkitty90

phantom i'm glad it worked out well, minus the loss of a freindship. and phantom is gorgeous! regardless of what she says!!

i do want to say that if i had a friend like you, willing to do anything and everything for my safety, i'd never let you go! lol so she's really the only one with any loss here.


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## Phantomcolt18

Thanks guys I feel a ton better about the situation. It's like a weight was lifted off my shoulders...(even though she wasn't my responsibility). 

Thanks for all of your advice, help, support, EVERYTHING. You guys are seriously the greatest.


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## faye

Phantomcolt. be glad you acted as you did, It is far better to lose her friendship now rather then have to attend her funeral in the future.

i have attended the funeral of a good friend of mine, She was one of those girls that had everything to live for, beautiful, skinny, lots of money, private schooling, luxury cars, good boyfriend, qualifications coming out of her ears. She committed suicide. 
It was horrific going to her funeral wondering if there was any warning signs that we missed or if there was something we could have done. I was away at uni for the 6months prior to her death, it is a horrific feeling wondering If I had been in contact more or If I had visited more would I have spotted something, some little warning sign that might have prevented it.

I would hate to be in the position of KNOWING that I could have done something but didnt. not knowing and wondering was bad enough!


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## Phantomcolt18

Faye- I couldn't agree more. I'm very sorry about your friend. But your last sentence is great.

By the way the horse in your avatar is Beautiful!


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## faye

Phantomcolt18 said:


> By the way the horse in your avatar is Beautiful!


Thankyou, He is a very special little horsey, that was him at a show on saturday. He is also the one that may have broken my shoulder!


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## Ray MacDonald

Ouch! But he is a cutie!


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## CJ82Sky

honestly ive been in a similar situation (not with a horse that was a killer but with a friend) and while it is sad to lose someone you have been friends with for so long, you were polite (it seems) and genuinely concerned. if someone is going to walk out of your life and throw personal insults at you, then i have to say like what i went through, you in the long run will be better off without them. the best you can hope is that she calms down and sees that you were genuinely trying to help and comes back to you as an honest friend who can be a part of the friendship rather than just a friend that you can only tell what they want to hear. that's how it was with my friend - if i said or asked anything that wasn't what they wanted to hear, i was negative and mean - and honestly do you really want to be a dishonest friend?

cheers, hon, you did the right thing. most importantly your friend is not getting a horse that is grossly dangerous!


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## faye

yep Ray and he moves like a dream, has conformation that is rather hard to fault and I'm hoping that when I finaly manage to get on him he will be my HOYS horse.
This is the full picture of him


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22

faye, he is gorgeous. Good luck with him and get better soon!


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## Ray MacDonald

I agree! ^ Beautiful! Hope you feel better! Do you know if you broke it?


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## faye

Had it xrayed on tuesday night when we had the accident, however by the time I got to hospital and seen to, the swelling was huge ad the Xrays went fuzzy because of it.
I went to hospital because I couldnt lift my right arm anywhere past the height of my shoulder, it just wouldnt go. I was sure I had done my collar bone but apparently that is fine, the pain is at the back of my shoulder anyway. So they Xrayed me, it went fuzzy so I ot sent home with lots of pills and told to go back on monday for more Xrays and to scan it is nessecary, hopefully the swelling will have gone down by then.

That said I am slowly gaining a greater range of motion in my arm so I am beggining to suspect that it is just one huge bruise with some nerve involvement. I can now lift my arm up just above shoulder height and rotate it out which mum believes I shouldnt be able to do if anything is broken and if it was broken then it should be getting worse not better.

so cross fingers and hope that it isnt as bad as it first looked.


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## Walkamile

Faye that's encouraging news. My friend did break her collar bone, plus several ribs, and couldn't lift or even move her arm. Keeping my fingers crossed that it's not broken, but as you said, badly bruised.

Also, stunning horse, even if he is a bit of a stinker! :wink::lol:


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## jwells84

IMO a horse that is 11 or more yrs old, and know how to hurt someone/kill someone, needs to go to slaughter. better to help feed hungry people than to put someone's life in danger in such an extreme way. I once rode a horse who reared. I was lucky the gound was soft and i only got a few torn muslces out of the deal. He was a quarterhorse and had Impressive in his back ground. well anywho the lady who owned him did send him to a professional who set the horse up to rear so he could "correct" the problem, and the horse chased him down! as soon as he was safe he called the owner and told her to come get her horse! i havent heard anymore about the horse in years,im hoping he got putdown. No one needs a "mankiller" on their hands. I still have problems with my leg (the one with the torn muscle) so i think about him quite frequently..... and would never get on a horse that was a known rearer.. even when my trusted horse pops up (nomore than a foot of the ground) I have to fight to remain calm. and i have worked hard with her to stop that stuff. she rarely does it anymore. thank goodness. well sorry to rant,but I had to add my 2cents...... and btw you can always find new friends, sorry that one didn't panout for you!


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## Ray MacDonald

That is very good news! I hope it is only a big bruise and nothing broken! ***Sending healing vibes***


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## Clair

I believe the post was titled "would you take A horse that killed its rider." I read the original post not all 14 pages of details. I was sort of talking in general not this particular horse (because of the title - got me all philosophical )

Why would i even consider a rearing horse? Well it would depend on the horse... My horse used to have a rearing rep before i bought him. But he was so willing and great i bought him. In over a year with me he reared once, at a horse that was charging us on a trail ride. I stayed on him even though i was bareback (i do NOT know how) and he probably ended up actually protecting me.

Not that that is usually the case with rearers that just influences my opinion.

To further clarify- i am NOT suggesting the OP made a bad choice AT ALL. I was merely replying in conjecture to the question posed by the title. And I would never want to suggest someone partake in unnecessary danger! I regret that i came across that way :\
Hope everything works out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jwells84

Ray MacDonald said:


> That is very good news! I hope it is only a big bruise and nothing broken! ***Sending healing vibes***


No nothing was broken and it was years ago. 7 I think.... and yes it was a humongous bruise.lol. went from my hip down to my knee on the inside of my leg. (i caught the saddle horn with it) I was younger and dumber then.lol notice im not saying i'm old and smart. however I do believe I am smarter than I was,but am always learning still. I couldnt wear short in public for a month or better


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## faye

Jwells I think Ray was refering to my post


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## jojonono

if i had enough time to re-train the horse or if it no longer bucked then yes i would consider but if i didnt have the time then it would certainly be a no


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## faye

jojonono said:


> if i had enough time to re-train the horse or if it no longer bucked then yes i would consider but if i didnt have the time then it would certainly be a no


Serious bucking and serious rearing are two very very different issues. I'd take on a bucker I wouldnt touch a rearer with a very very long barge pole as it is too dangerous.


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## jwells84

faye said:


> Jwells I think Ray was refering to my post


oops sorry....:? i got confused


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## faye

no problems


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## Ray MacDonald

Ahaha  That is a HUGH bruise tho! What happened?


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## jwells84

a horse flipped over on me. torn some muslces in myleg.


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## Ray MacDonald

Ouch! That's what I am most scared of when I become a professional trainer, something really dangerous and me getting hurt  Cuz I'm a whimp like that LOL


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## jwells84

i've had to learn the hard way... somethimes its better to bail off. sure beat getting layed on or rubbed on a barb wire fence. plus once you are on the ground( or get up from it) you can disipline your horse safer.


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## Ray MacDonald

Very true! Are you a professional trainer?


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## jwells84

Im not sure what everyone considers a professional. I have a degree in equine production, with an imphasis in training, and mainly break horses to ride, trailer break, halter break,work on comminucation issues... the simple stuff so to speak... I dont have much expierence with the "specialized" things reining, barrels, ect. I have worked with a cutting horse trainer and a eventing trainer and took lessons fromthem. I learned alot. what to do and what not to do. and what i prefer. The cutting horse trainer was pretty big time here where i am from,but i did not approve of how he taught his horses. they were not "broke". they were run in a round pen or lunged till they got too tired to pull any stunts then put on cows... and he didnt know his horses. He had a "cowboy" come out to put a 1st ride on one of his horses, the trainer said he picked out the easiest,I happened to work with this horse the day before. was the first time he was ever saddle, acted like a bronco. This was not a easy horse to ride, nor was he ready to be ridden... so instead of staying with this trainer i opted out, i prefer safe horses you dont have to work intothe ground before actually riding


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## Ray MacDonald

I'd call you a professional trainer, I don't think I like the cutting "trainer" lol


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## lacyloo

I'm still surprised that the horse was for sell... You would think the owners would be trying to give it away !


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## OffAgainOnAgain

Rearing is one thing I will not touch with a ten foot pole. I don't even want a horse that has supposedly been retrained not to rear.
I mean, I can understand like a little spook rear when the horses front feet come a foot off the ground, but repeated high rears? No thank you!
And I know my trainer does not allow them in the barn. The only horse I have EVER seen rear in her barn was an older school horse Skip. A visit from the chiropractor and a few quick lessons with her in the saddle and you would have no idea what happened.
But a chronic and obviously deadly rearing and flipper?
It may not the horses fault… But he should be a companion horse. Not a riding mount.


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## ladybugsgirl

What ended up happening. I sure hope your friend didnt get this horse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phantomcolt18

Ladybug ---no she never got it here is the post.




Phantomcolt18 said:


> So I have an update..... I would have posted last night but I was a little too torn up about it and I didn't want my feelings to influence what I wrote on here. It definately helps that I got a phone call from my friend's mom this morning. :-|
> 
> So basically as soon as she got home from her lesson she must have jumped on Facebook to get at me because around 9:30pm (her lessons end at 8:30pm but the barn is 50 mins from their house). I waited for her to talk to me instead of pursuing her.
> 
> The only thing I did to this convo was 1. take out the curses and added bleeps) 2. starred out any names involved. and 3. fixed the view of it because when I copied and pasted from the facebook chatbox it all clumped into one paragraph(thanks word processor)
> 
> Anyway here it goes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And after this she blocked me. A 6 yr friendship over, just like that. I had it at the back of my mind that it would come to this but I was hoping it didn't.
> 
> I'm still really upset that she started to take it out on Phantom. He's not even involved, I never even mentioned him. She just knows what to do to hurt me. I'm going to miss having a friend to share my crazy love of horses with but at least I can say I possibly saved her life. She changed this year and I think a lot got to her head.
> 
> Her mom called me this morning she apologized for not listening to me before. I told her it was okay and that if she ever has any questions about horses, no matter what happens between me and her daughter, that she can call me ot just ask me when I get my hair done(she's also my hairdresser)She thanked me and then reminded me I have an appt next thurs . We shared a laugh and hung up.
> 
> ~sigh~ I'm really bummed that her trainer didn't get through to her but I'm glad he got through to her mom.
> 
> Still really sad and bummed out though


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## Phantomcolt18

oops sorry it didn't post the quote of our facebook chat....the post is on page 11 if you want to read it.


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## Shannon T

I had a horse reared up why I was riding it I got myself pulled off by grabbing a tree but the horse went on over it didnt make it the vet said it had a heart attack. I was just walking at a slow pace it wasn't worked up or out of energy! I wouldnt buy that horse but would have a vet check it out!


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## TBtrailrider

From the sound of it, your very unsaavy horse friend is making a big mistake and a common mistake by buying a horse because he's cheap or because she thinks she has the guts to fix the problem. As her friend, do your best to talk her out of it and show her other suitable mounts that you can find for sale that you would think were a good fit for her. Best of luck.


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## ladybugsgirl

That was a very well written letter and I understand completly where the bo is coming from. The girl sounds like shes been spoiled far to long
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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