# Trailer tongue weight



## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I have questions about whether my WD hitch is set up correctly, and also about the overall distribution of weight within the trailer itself. So as a first step to answer these questions, I got a trailer tongue scale.

My trailer weighs 4k pounds empty and when I weighed it had probably 500 pounds of stuff in it. Including a full water tank (20 gallons) which sits in the front and two standard-size square bales of hay which I had tied to the bulkhead wall. So the trailer was probably going to be a little tongue heavy. However, when I got out the scale and weighed it, the tongue weight measured at 1000 pounds! Well, the scale maxed out at 1000 pounds, so that is a bit of a guess. I emptied out the water tank and measured again -- 900 pounds. My husband and I weighed ourselves on the scale also and got accurate measurements. So I believe the scale is correct.

I am truly puzzled how a trailer that weighs maybe 4.5k pounds have 900-1000 pounds of tongue weight. Now, the trailer is a long two-horse trailer with extra room at front, a front ramp, and a dressing room. So I guess it might be a little front heavy. But this still seems like a lot of weight. Are horse trailers designed to have more weight in the front, so that when the horses go in the back it will even out? Does anyone else have any thoughts about why the tongue weight is so high?

(FYI the WD hitch is a 10,000 / 1,000 pound hitch and the truck hitch is rated for up to 1200 pounds of tongue weight with a WD hitch (although I'm assuming this is with a correctly set up WD hitch, which I'm not sure mine is), and the truck has over 3,000 payload capacity, so I'm within specs. But not by a lot. And these measurements were taken with the trailer essentially empty)

(Also part of the reason I think the WD hitch might not be set up correctly is that I'm not seeing a significant difference in measured squat in the front tires between the trailer hooked up with WD hitch and trailer hooked up to just the ball -- it was maybe a quarter of an inch)


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## Elessar (Dec 28, 2011)

Your question is posed in such a way to suggest that you have a good understanding of WD hitches as well as towing specs of your trailer and the capacity of your tow vehicle. However, you should also be measuring the squat of the rear fender and rear bumper as well as the front fender to determine if the WD hitch is set up correctly. You don't say what type of WD hitch you're using but I assume you have a standard hitch with torsion bars. You may need to adjust those bars to carry the weight correctly.

The weight that you've added to your trailer may have a direct affect on the tongue weight and depends on where the weight is added inside the trailer. A gallon of water weighs 8#s so if you water tank is full you would have added 160#s as well as two bales of hay at about 100#s for a total of 260#s. You don't say anything about tack or other gear added to the storage space in the nose of the trailer but everything you add increases the tongue weight of the trailer and most people forget that the weight of the WD hitch must also be calculated into the hitch weight of the tow vehicle as well as added weight inside the tow vehicle. My WD hitch easily weighs 100#s and my saddle weighs 50#s. If you put two saddles into the trailer along with other tack and a spare tire, you could run up quick. If your trailer starts at 400#s before being loaded you could reach more than 700#s pretty quickly.

It would seem extreme or over analyzing but you could weight the trailer empty, weight all the gear including the WD hitch, tack and hay while in the driveway and then add everything to the trailer and weigh the trailer again to find the actual affect to the trailer. Just my $.02 worth.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

I'd be very curious to see what your tongue weight is with the same setup and the horses in the trailer.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Elessar said:


> Your question is posed in such a way to suggest that you have a good understanding of WD hitches as well as towing specs of your trailer and the capacity of your tow vehicle. However, you should also be measuring the squat of the rear fender and rear bumper as well as the front fender to determine if the WD hitch is set up correctly. You don't say what type of WD hitch you're using but I assume you have a standard hitch with torsion bars. You may need to adjust those bars to carry the weight correctly.


The last couple of months I have focused my free time on learning about trucks and trailering, and really trying to get to know my truck and trailer, separately and together, well.

I did take some measurements for wheel squat. These are the measurements for wheel well, which I guess will be obvious from the measurements LOL.

I have the following measurements for well wheel height.

Where I had 1000 pounds of tongue weight:
FRONT NO TRAILER: 9
FRONT BALL PULL: 9.5 + (meaning a smidge)
FRONT WD HITCH: 9.5
REAR NO TRAILER: 11
REAR BALL PULL: 9.5
REAR WD HITCH: 9.5

Where I had 900 pounds of tongue weight:
FRONT NO TRAILER: 9
FRONT BALL PULL: 9.25
FRONT WD HITCH: 9.25
REAR NO TRAILER: 11
REAR BALL PULL: 10
REAR WD HITCH: 9.75

So they changed, but not by a lot, and in the second example, with the rear wheel wells, I don't think in the right direction? 

I'm also kind of wondering now if maybe this is OK. The truck sits higher in the rear, and when I load it up it sits level. I mean, sitting level can't be a bad thing, right?

I need to get out the truck owner's manual and read through it again. I feel like, on the one hand, a 4k empty trailer maybe isn't putting enough weight on the truck to make a difference to the front tires. OTOH, I weighed it and I know it's a lot. Again, not more than the truck can handle, but it's close to maxing out the WD part of the hitch.

The WD hitch is trunnion style (see here: https://www.etrailer.com/tracking.aspx?oid=111766347&zipcode=78757) with chains. I talked to the trailer manufacturer and the hitch manufacturer a couple of times to be sure that this was the right one to get (after the first hitch store I went to sold me the wrong kind). It's already at the fifth chain link and I don't think it's designed to get any tighter.



Joel Reiter said:


> I'd be very curious to see what your tongue weight is with the same setup and the horses in the trailer.


Yes! Me too! VERY much! I went and got half a ton of hay today to try to at least partially answer that question, but then I had to empty some of the hay out so I'm not sure how well that experiment will work right now. The tongue weight scale IS capable of measuring the tongue weight while it's attached to the hitch, so I can do this without endangering the horses. I would like to get it out there and set up ready to go, take the measurements again, and then measure it with the horses in it. Not just the weight, but the tire squat also.


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## RMH (Jul 26, 2016)

My experience is with goose neck and simple bumper pull trailers and I know nothing more about weight distribution hitches than the basic theory. I'd look at where the center of the axles is relative to where the horse(s) stand. If they stand slightly ahead of the axles they will be adding weight to the tongue. If they stand directly over the axles their weight will be theoretically carried by the axles. If they stand slightly behind the center of the axles it will tend to remove weight from the tongue. Of coarse we know horses don't stand perfectly still and will move around a bit changing the balance.

I'm lucky to live near a commercial fertilizer dealer who has a large truck scale. A grain mill, quarry, or any business that sells bulk materials would also have such a scale. Perhaps if you ask you could use the scale when they aren't busy. The fertilizer dealer leaves the scale on all of the time and the display is visible so with their permission I can use it after business hours. Many truck stops also have scales but they charge for each weighing. Load up and pull the front axle of the truck onto the scale. This will give you front axle weight. Next pull both axles of the truck onto the scale. This will give you truck weight. Subtract the front axle weight from the truck weight to determine rear axle weight. Now pull the whole rig on the scale to get a combination weight. Subtract the truck weight from the combination weight to get the trailer weight. If you weight the truck without the trailer attached and subtract if from the weight of the truck with the trailer attached that will be your tongue weight. Check all these numbers against the tag inside the truck door and the data plate on the trailer to see if you are within the limits. One caution is you'll need a scale with a level approach. Any slope up to the scale will reduce the accuracy.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You've somewhat lost me AC in what you think you should be seeing....
The more weight applied to the butt end of your truck, the more your truck will sink to the ground, WD hitch or not.
When you had less weight applied to the butt end, the truck stood higher...
That is the way it is and should be.

Your front tires of your truck and your truck in appearance should not raise upsignificantly...excuse me but that is what a WD hitch is supposed to prevent.
Your steering wheels are your front tires and axle....you want weight to be on them and steadily maintained at all times as you know.
If you are seeing a empty trailer hitched holding 250 pounds of added weight "in the nose" your front tires squat change that much then something is wrong. You should really not be seeing much difference in anything if your hitch is working correctly is my thinking.
Yes, your truck should sit higher in the back when unladen, nothing hitched to it, nothing in the truck bed...now add your weight of 4,000 pounds to your tail and let me see you not drop down a few inches.
Add your WD hitch though and it transfers the weight effectively across more of the trucks suspension is what you bought and wanted and what you are seeing I think.

_Lastly, who set up your trailer for ride height and utilization of the WD hitch?
A business you trust or did you do it yourself?_
You have to have some faith in who does work on your equipment they know what they are doing..._hence you went to a different shop didn't you when you had concerns?
You not trust these guys either? _
Any business I've ever been at and watched work on a trailer set-up also must rely on the person to give pretty accurate numbers of what the load is going to weigh and how much extra is going to be placed in that trailer at maximum if it s different than the trailer is made to handle...
Most places do the setup for loaded weight of the trailer to the truck...so you may not be seeing what in effect is what will happen till you put ponies on board and your stuff and haul down the road...
Can it make a difference, you bet. Right now it probably is off a bit, it should be when sitting 3,500 pounds light.
You making any changes/alterations on your trailer now...wait till you do put that 3,500 -4,000 pounds of "stuff" in the back and if you calculate wrong you're going to lift your drive axle off the ground and indeed that means you lost ability of tire contact with the road... like driving on wet ice when your tires skate on the road surfaces...
Be very careful what you do, think you need to do...and again, remember you oversized everything in this trailer so your ponies would have more room and be able to move when traveling a bit.
You bought a WB sized trailer, then oversized it again _did_ also change dynamics of how that trailer was blueprint configured and made to carry a load equal to what you sized up for...{you have a huge trailer and small animals}
Be very careful what you do is all I'm going to say...
🐴... _jmo.._


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

*(AlsoE part of the reason I think the WD hitch might not be set up correctly is that I'm not seeing a significante difference in measured squat in the front tires between the trailer hooked up with WD hitch and trailer hooked up to just the ball -- it was maybe a quarter of an inch)*

It is probably safe to say, you are going to spend the rest of your life overthinking the intricacies of the functionality of the rig.

Plain and simple, if there is only a 1/4” difference in “measured squat”, that likely means you didn’t need that weight distribution hitch because the truck was built with the suspension to handle the trailer.

The rig can be bubble wrapped in every safety device on the market — it’s the capabilities of the driver that will either cost lives or save lives in the end. 

This is just like all these new cars that do the thinking for the drivers and they still wreck. 

The side of my car was backed into in a doctor’s parking lot by some twit who had a backup camera in her big SUV. Surprise surprise she was “multitasking” on her cell phone instead of paying attention to what she was doing because she had a backup camera that didn’t save her from her lack of paying attention to her surroundings.

Many folks experienced in long hauling, with older rigs that don‘t have any bells & whistles, have strongly suggested to put this overthinking to bed, just get out there and drive the darn thing and remember that it won’t feel same empty as it does when horses are in there.

Back to that “ measured squat” business —- my old GMC is a heavy 3/4 ton sitting on one ton cargo van suspension. It never “squats” when I hook the stock trailer full of horses to it. I have come out of logging camps, grinding thru mud in four wheel drive up to the lockouts, loaded over the roof with slab wood and never once put that truck down on its helper springs - or got it stuck. That Is because the suspension was customized with one ton suspension. The way it sits empty is the way it sits loaded down. 

There are much more importantt things to worry about - like how you will react in a tense situation on the highway when it’s time to move to Oregon - there are times when there is no time to think - none zip, zero, so the end result relies on the instinct and previous experience of the driver. I still contend everyone will be much happier if you pay someone to move your horses for you. Be that in your rig or a professional mover — let someone else do the driving - you are worrying/overthinking about the wrong things.

Planning is a necessity. Being well organized is a necessity. Making mountains out of molehills is not


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hi AC
1000lb on the ball seems excessive.
My BP 2-horse is older, but probably pretty similar to yours otherwise. No fancy hitch arrangement. 2in ball. 4-wheel brakes.
I have never bothered to weigh the tongue, but I do use the three-point hitch on my compact tractor to move it around, and there is no way the tongue weight empty is 1000lb; probably more like 250-300.
I have towed it with my '96 6cyl T-100 w/o issues, and with my '10 5.7l Tundra, also w/o issues. Both trucks have what I'm pretty sure is a class 3 hitch. IIRC these hitches are only "rated" for ~350lb "tongue" weight.
And you say your truck doesn't drop significantly when you connect the trailer? Hmmmm. This really makes me wonder about your scale . . .
That said, I would have to agree with Walk ↑↑↑. It's a new truck, a new trailer, and a fancy hitch; it should be good-to-go. Stack a bunch of hay-bales in the stalls if you want to try it loaded and not have to annoy your critters; get in it and drive, drive, drive. Go somewhere. Come back. Interstate, 2-lane highway, 1.5-lane country road, dirt. In-town-rush-hour. Mall parking lot. And don't forget to back, back, back. And do a few "emergency" stops, too, just so you get a feeling for how little stopping power you actually have with a heavy trailer attached, and to determine the correct setting for your brake controller.
You really have to build "trailering" reflexes into your muscle memory to safely haul horses, and you're not gonna do it with a calculator. Drive it. Come back after 500 or 1000 miles and we'll revisit your questions, if they haven't already answered themselves.
edit to add: Didja check the tire pressures on the trailer? If the fronts were really low, that would tend to raise the tongue weight. Somewhere on the trailer tires it should say "max load XXXXlb at YYPSI cold". That, or maybe just a smidge less, is where they should be set. Aah; check the air in your spare, too.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

george the mule said:


> And do a few "emergency" stops, too, just so you get a feeling for how little stopping power you actually have with a heavy trailer attached, and to determine the correct setting for your brake controller.


Ha, I posted this on my journal but not here -- I almost killed someone on Sunday driving home in the dark. The guy was all dark and he just walked right out in front of me while I was driving down a highway access road. I had to slam on the brakes and come to a complete stop. It was a good stop, no squealing tires and I don't think the tires locked either. It all happened so fast I couldn't even honk at the guy. I'm glad the horses weren't in there. But the rig stopped really nicely.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

ACinATX said:


> (From another thread: ) Well that went well. Winds 20 mph gusting to 45 mph.





ACinATX said:


> But the rig stopped really nicely.


Well there ya go. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


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