# Adult learning to canter



## Shortyhorses4me (Jun 17, 2018)

Hi folks! Any tips on how not to completely wreak my hips and back while learning to canter? Right now I tend to come out of the saddle and land on my pubic bones a bit 😖. I think I will eventually stay connected in the saddle more but just started learning canter. Muscles in my back are twingey and my hip is sore- probably my psoas muscle. Thanks for any tips for while riding or things to help before/after riding.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Do you know your 2-point or half-seat?
Use it....
Ask for the canter departure...
Once your pace is set and holding steady your body is in time, in rhythm with the horses movement...
Now lower yourself to the saddle and sit...
Don't plop, sit...now let your back be the shock absorber.
Some horses also have a longer flowing canter stride...if the horse you are trying to learn on is short and choppy in their strides learn on a different horse.
Rocking chair is a word you want to find that motion on a horse to sit.
Only you know the animal you're riding and whether they are smooth in motion or jarring in the length of any gait...and it does make a difference.

Good luck.
:runninghorse2:...


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Yup, 2-point. You can practice it in trott.


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## MeditativeRider (Feb 5, 2019)

I agree with the others. I started learning to canter near the start of this year and was doing it mostly in 2 point or a light seat (slightly lower than 2 point) until I could sit without bouncing. Also, once I could sit, on the horse I am riding, it is less bouncy if I don't lean forward and make sure I don't give away my connection with the reins, and then I get a nicer rocking canter that is easier to sit.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Polish the saddle:






Don't try to stay stationary. You won't. It is work though, so a tired back is normal.


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## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

It's going to take a little while to relax and follow the movement of the horse. Having a flat gaiter lesson horse (like many TB's, etc) can help you learn to sit. Otherwise you're going to have to find a way to relax if you are riding a horse with a lot of impulsion. It took me a long while to learn this and to be honest, since every body (literally your body) is different, there's no quick way to do this. You have to feel it, get a feel for the moment--ride different horses. You'd be surprised how many upper level show jumpers bounce too- it's just one of those things that takes time and developing a 'seat'.

If ride a horse with impulsion-- you might actually be winded. It's a big movement to absorb, and can be very jarring to the abdomen if you're not used to it. So this is also why I say ride a horse with a short stride or flat movement first. Above all- remember to breathe. 

...sorry if this isn't advice per say/any tips..


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## Feathers7 (Jun 11, 2019)

Back support, such as braces, can help keep you stable while you get the feel of things. =)

This website is full of yoga and strengthening exercises that are good for any riders, not just dressage riders:
https://dressageridertraining.com/category/stability/
https://dressageridertraining.com/category/suppleness/


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Also, make sure to sit up and look ahead where you are going not at your horse. Leaning forward and looking down lifts your bottom out of the seat. This will rock your bottom back in the seat. Rock your pelvis with the rhythm of the horse.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I have shared the below, many times on HF. I learned it here, too.


https://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/saddle-learning-canter-806825/#post1970758139


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Both reins in one hand, two fingers of the other under the pommel of the saddle and pull upwards. 

A lot of the problem with learning to canter comes from the rider not being able to doma good sitting trot and that they instinctively want to lean forward.

I would _never_ have a beginner learning to canter, go into two point.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> I would _never_ have a beginner learning to canter, go into two point.



_*Why?*_


When done correctly the body is aligned and in balance, not tilted forward heavy on the arms or forehand of the horse...
Ever watch a baby learn to walk, run...a natural position of slightly forward at the hip happens.
In 2-point though you are controlling the upper body pitch...

I would far rather the rider learn the feel of a canter rock motion slighlty elevated off the horses spine than pound the horses back trying to do a sitting whatever with fingers shoved under a pommel.
It does take time and learning a horses rhythm...but to me far kinder to rider and horse not to be slapping along on the spine or soft tissue of the groin area.
You also need the right horse who will tolerate a beginners attempts to sit and relax...
I find it far easier to canter and sit quiet on a longer striding horse than one short and choppy motion..
:runninghorse2:...


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I have taught masses of people to ride and of all of them only a couple have had trouble sitting the canter. 

If they are taught to do a good sound sitting trot there is rarely an issue.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Why is going from vertical torso to leaning back, and then alternating between the two, considered good riding, but going from leaning forward to vertical torso, and then alternating between the two, is considered bad?

Shouldn't we lean as required to match our Center of Gravity (on average) to our horse's?

I don't ride like this (video below) but then, I don't really want to either. Why would I want to "get my weight back" - his words - to where the horse needs to lift his back? *Serious question*. Not trying to toss a turd into the punch bowl. Western or English, trying to get your weight back and deep in the saddle seems strange to me. See the same thing (lots of leaning back) in the slow motion video (dressage) I posted earlier. The horse's back rotates around his CG (about the withers) in a canter. Why would I want to be back on his back instead of where the back moves the least - closer to the withers?






My "arena" is so small that Bandit ends up doing 30-60 foot diameter circles, which is hard on us both. Cantering along a trail is much more comfortable to both of us, but I'm always too busy to think when we're hauling butt down a trail. I find I prefer to get out of the saddle in the arena and much deeper into it along the trail...but I can't find anyone who wants to video us racing by them out on a trail. So I can't see what I do there.

Trotting and cantering are dramatically different motions for the horse. I honestly see little relation between riding one well and the other.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

horselovinguy said:


> _*Why?*_
> 
> 
> When done correctly the body is aligned and in balance, not tilted forward heavy on the arms or forehand of the horse...
> ...





I think I'm with @Foxhunter on this one. First of all, doing a good two point is actually pretty hard, and beginners tend to balance on the reins, initially. Also, when learning two point at the canter, the rider's butt is actually farther off the horse, and if they don't have really good control (which beginners don't) their butt falls farther and harder back into the saddle than it would if they are just sitting in the saddle to begin with.


I was taught to post the trot, initially, and in hindsight, I think that teaching a rider to sit the trot, from the get go, might provide a stronger seat foundation than the way it is more commonly taught.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Very rarely is the importance of the seat emphasised in the way Riding is taught today. 

Posting to the trot is easy as soon as it is felt, sitting, after a beginner knows how to rise, is hard to teach. If they only know the sitting trot and that is established then a stronger seat is already in place when it comes to cantering. The rider has learnt the way tomsit into the horse's movement and although the canter is a different movement it is easy to adjust. 

What most people do not understand is that the horse is basically standing on a pool of blood. It is easy to adjust their balance because of this. 

If a horse is standing on all four legs and you exert the slightest pressure with a finger on its shoulder then it will move the weight onto the opposite side


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_What most people do not understand is that the horse is basically standing on a pool of blood. It is easy to adjust their balance because of this. If a horse is standing on all four legs and you exert the slightest pressure with a finger on its shoulder then it will move the weight onto the opposite side"_

???????

I have no idea what that means. Put pressure on Bandit's shoulder and he is likely to lean into you and expect a rub. 

In a trot, the horse's back stays relatively level. It rotates with a pivot at the withers in a canter. My first canter, I tried to ride it like a trot and ended up flying in close formation with my poor horse. I had no trouble with a trot at that point, but a canter was a horse of a different color. Because it was a different motion.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

I too am in the camp of thinking that learning to sit to the canter before learning to ride it in two point is better.

Why? Because I two-pointed my canter foreeeeever, before learning to sit it. And I am forever, ever, EVER fighting the impulse to go back into two point. With ever single stride. All the time. My whole life. And this all could have been avoided if I had just learned to sit it well FIRST. Your brain and body instinctively want to go to whatever you first learned, and it is SOOOO hard to unlearn something.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I would also say no to the 2 point, maybe it’s because Foxhunter and I are both Brits and 2 point isn’t such a ‘thing’ over there until you’re at the stage when you’re going into extended canter, gallop and jumping?
The main reason I wouldn’t suggest it is because more people do it wrong than do it right and novice riders struggle most of all. Instead of using core and thigh strength to achieve 2 point, they end up just standing in their stirrups. That’s not going to get a good canter seat.

Best way to learn to canter is to ditch the stirrups altogether. Better still, ditch the saddle too.

Have the early lessons on the lunge and use a grab strap ‘just in case’ you need it.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I agree with the others - riding in the correct 2 point position is hard and if done incorrectly or your core or legs are weak you can tip yourself off of the horse. At the lesson barn my husband goes to no one is allowed to canter unless that can sit a nice sitting trot without stirrups. All lesson riders are taught to canter by sitting back on their pockets. yes it feels awkward and even looks weird but - it does help. The main issue with adult riders is that they are stiff and tend to want to hollow their back. By telling everyone to "sit on their pockets" it rounds the lower back (or should)


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

jaydee said:


> ...Instead of using core and thigh strength to achieve 2 point, they end up just standing in their stirrups. That’s not going to get a good canter seat...


That is how VS Littauer, Harry Chamberlin and "The American Military Seat" taught two point: stand in your stirrups. If you 'stand in your stirrups', your knee (and ankle) acts as hinges to reduce peak impacts on the horse's back. If you two point using "thigh strength", you lose those hinges and reduce the effectiveness of two point in saving the horse's back.



carshon said:


> I agree with the others - riding in the correct 2 point position is hard....All lesson riders are taught to canter by sitting back on their pockets...


Riding in two point - when standing in the stirrups - is about balance, not strength. Correct two point position - again, as was long taught in the USA & the US Cavalry - has the rider lean forward enough to center his balance over the stirrups, and then stand in them, letting the legs bend to absorb shock. The entire POINT of two point is to free up the back and reduce peak pressure.

Leaning back makes it easier to keep pressure in the seat. But in a canter, the horse's back needs to rotate up and forward around the horse's withers. By leaning back, you put more weight into the place the horse needs to move more, hampering the horse. Riding with weight in your thighs or leaning back both interfere with what the horse needs to do, and for what? Why would anyone WANT to make cantering harder work for their horse?



> Piero Santini's first paragraph on Geometry of the Forward Seat in Riding Reflections (1933):
> 
> The verb 'to sit' should be eliminated from our vocabulary where riding is concerned, for the idea it conveys is intrinsically misleading. *Were it not for its indecorous connotation the word 'perch' would more aptly suggest the position that the rider should assume* in what is commonly described as the 'forward' seat.





> . . . the first rule of good riding is that of reducing, simplifying and sometimes, if possible, even eliminating the action of the rider. If the hands are used to turn and check a horse, and the legs to make him move forward and to give him resolution and decisiveness this is enough . . .
> 
> If natural work is required of a horse [field work] and not artificial [manege work] he will be better able to make use of his impulses, instincts and his natural balance . . .
> 
> ...


Although I'm now mostly a western rider, I believe the early forward seat had a lot going for it. No, I'm not saying this because I've "read it". I'm saying this because I see it again and again in my horses. When I first read "_The French say, when speaking of a horse that shows restiveness, *"il se defend" - he defends himself*...There is much truth in this expression, and it is one that riders should constantly bear in mind, for insubordination is most commonly the result of something having been demanded from the horse that it either did not know how to do or was unable to perform..._", I interpreted it the way it was probably meant: Horses resist when they do not understand cues or what the rider wants them to do.

Increasingly, I think horses spend a lot of time defending themselves and creating mental resistance because standard riding makes the horse work harder than needed to achieve the end, and the horse then resents the riders interference. A horse whose rider is actively trying to help the horse achieve the goal, who is working to HELP the horse, becomes united with his rider. He becomes not just "more docile", but more EAGER to work with his rider.

Even small steps toward reducing how our weight interferes with the horse tells the horse he is being asked to do something rational and that his rider is trying to help him. To be part of a team. And horses, from what I've SEEN, like rational, purposeful exercise:


> ...There is another thing to be considered with regard to the horse's character - it loves to exercise its powers, and it possesses a great spirit of emulation; it likes variety of scene and amusement; and under a rider that understands how to indulge it in all this without overtaxing its powers, will work willingly to the last gasp, which is what entitles it to the name of a noble and generous animal...


It seems to me this IS basic to how a beginning rider should be taught. We should actively teach new riders based on how they can do the least harm to their horse while riding him, thus encouraging the horse to look forward to being ridden. Riding "in the stirrups" instead of "seat, seat, SEAT" should be taught at the beginning. In part because it is a very easy way to ride. In part because it teaches the rider to appreciate how hard the horse works. And because riding in a half-seat, or perhaps a 3/4 seat, reduces the horse's resistance.



> And I find myself having once again to repeat what I said and repeated: the horse will do good work and gladly do so when the cavalryman strives to make his actions less offensive to the horse, and, even though the rider requires that the horse be submissive to his will, leaves the horse freedom in committing its energy and equilibrium...
> 
> ...For my part I will say that this work has persuaded me more of what I have already said: *horses become spoiled and revolt, in general, not as a result of hard work and work that is consistent with their abilities, but rather as the result of painful actions they receive from the rider.* - Caprilli


I'm quoting Caprilli, who wrote about teaching beginning riders, because I see the same thing in my horses. There is an excellent translation of Caprilli's longest article on teaching new riders here:

Federico Caprilli, Per L'Equitazione Di Campagna - On Cross Country Riding

PS: An easy way of learning to ride in two point is, oddly enough, in a western saddle. One hand on the slack reins. One hand on the saddle horn until the saddle horn is no longer helpful. Only then use two hands on the reins. And learning bitless helps the horse too.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Wow! a lot to read there.


Really, @bsms, if you're trying to say that sitting the canter is making a horse so uncomfortable that he must 'defend' himself, and that standing in the stirrups will make him enjoy his work, that it's that clear cut of a difference . . . well. . . that's just way too simplistic.



Honestly. we are talking about how best to teach an adult rider how to canter well. And yes, the better she can canter, the easier it is for the horse. While you say that a two point or half seat is based on 'balance' , not strength, in actuality, it DOES take quite a bit of strength in core and leg in order to maintain a two point position, WITHOUT banging up and down on the horse's back, and without balancing on the reins. And standing solely in the stirrups, without good thigh contact, will make you vulnerable to falling forward if the horse 'props'. It's not 100% of standing, or 100% of thigh contact. It's LEG. all of it. But, yes, if there is not weigh down and through the stirrup, you will have a rigid connection



I appreciate your feelings regarding horses being allowed more freedom, and I agree with the general concept of "First you get with the horse, then you get the horse with you". However, very beginning riders may not be able to 'get with the horse' for a bit. To me, having them sit down to the trot and the canter, while it can be hard on THAT horse, the rider will learn how to feel the motion, and in time, learn how to 'get with the horse'. 



It's not always a pretty process, but I feel that by sitting into the canter, the rider becomes more in tune with the motion, and better learns to sync with it. Once the rider can sync with this, she will eventually be better able to 'get the horse with her". That is the end goal of being a good horseman; getting the horse to move with YOU, to offer his body to move as you ask, when you ask. And while it's nice to be on the back of a horse that is freely moving out, enjoying his movement, Horse back riding is about humans shaping horses to OUR needs, it's that simple. 



I agree with you that sitting the canter should not be perceived as 'sitting on your pockets', BUT, this image can sometimes help people who are doing too much of the other; sitting on the pelvic bone, and hollowing out the lower back.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> Really, @bsms, if you're trying to say that sitting the canter is making a horse so uncomfortable that he must 'defend' himself, and that standing in the stirrups will make him enjoy his work, that it's that clear cut of a difference . . . well. . . that's just way too simplistic.
> 
> .....While you say that a two point or half seat is based on 'balance' , not strength, in actuality, it DOES take quite a bit of strength in core and leg in order to maintain a two point position, WITHOUT banging up and down on the horse's back, and without balancing on the reins. And standing solely in the stirrups, without good thigh contact, will make you vulnerable to falling forward if the horse 'props'.....


I don't think it is too simplistic, really. Do a sitting canter - which I do know how to do - and then get out of the saddle. I see improvement in my horse's attitude. Interestingly, I also see immediate improvement in how tight a circle he can canter. That doesn't mean my horse will buck if I sit the canter. But it improves his mobility in a canter. WHY it helps is obvious if one watches a horse cantering in slow motion.

I also remember taking lessons and discovering even jaded lesson horses quickly notice if I did anything to help them out - and responded immediately.

Now, should a new rider learn a sitting canter first or a half-seat? 



maura said:


> Yes, it is absolutely all right to use half seat at your stage of riding.
> 
> Many hunt seat/forward seat riders do not learn to ride the canter in a full, following seat until much later in their riding educations.
> 
> ...





maura said:


> Riding the canter correctly and well in a full seat is difficult, and many more riders do it badly than do it well. As Allison stated above, it requires a degree of abdominal fitness, as well as correct position, relaxation and a good understanding of gait mechanics and how the horse's back moves. That's out of reach for a lot of recreational riders. I would much rather see an elementary or intermediate rider cantering in half seat, allowing the horse to move freely, than someone attempting and failing a full following seat and punishing the horse's back in the process.
> 
> There is nothing inherently insecure about riding the canter in half-seat or two point as long as the rider is in balance.


https://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/riding-canter-half-seat-120340/

maura is the one who introduced me to VS Littauer. May have saved my life. A new rider at 50, learning on a horse who could spook like the dickens...what VS Littauer taught just worked. And I found her comments about half-seat versus sitting the canter accurate as well. 

Two point is all about balance, and finding how to get your balance in synch with the horse. The Forward Seat was all about shifting the rider's balance to match the horse rather than teaching the horse to shift HIS balance back under the rider - collection. When you "stand in the stirrups", your leg MUST have contact with the horse. Even with a horse as slender as Bandit. But the key is not to rely on gripping the horse with your thighs, but letting the weight flow past the knee into the stirrups. When you do that, two point is not much different than stand on an escalator. And your security becomes your LOWER leg, not your thigh. That is good when a horse spooks or balks.

For a beginning rider, standing in the stirrups develops a feel for the horse's balance. Without that feel, one cannot ride in balance with the horse. Sitting back and leaning back in the saddle puts one well behind the horse, making the horse work harder. And horses notice. Riding from the knee up removes two of the "hinges" that allow a rider to reduce impact on the horse's back. They notice.

One doesn't need to shorten the stirrups much to stand in them. Get too high above the saddle and it will throw you and your horse off balance - unless you have a lot of core strength. But to protect the horse's back and save him energy, an inch is enough to make a difference.

Of course, most people disagree with me. That is fine. But shouldn't we teach new riders, as early as possible, to think about helping their horse perform rather than teaching them to be heavy on the back because it looks good to other humans?

For honesty's sake...standing in the stirrups when Bandit is trotting:










> 11) For better gripping and in order to bring the upper calf in contact with the saddle:- a) keep your toes open about 30 degrees...The three hinges ...are completely free in their motions, just as free as the ball bearings in some highly sensitive and well greased machine...If anything were to happen, the rider in a split second would have a very strong position by stiffening from the waist down-thighs, knees, calves will then grip strongly- but while just walking quietly the rider relies mostly on his balance. To see whether he is really in balance with the horse, the rider should try the following experiment; without increase in inclination in his torso and without any lurching up or forward he rises slightly in his stirrups and stays up while the horse walks, without toppling forward or collapsing backwards. The rider's weight is then supported by the stirrups, and this attitude is given stability by the tension in the three springs...This incidentally, is also the rider's position during the upward beat of the posting trot and at the gallop...


Common Sense Horsemanship by VS Littauer. Less than $20 shipped (used). Food for thought.


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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> Both reins in one hand, two fingers of the other under the pommel of the saddle and pull upwards.
> 
> A lot of the problem with learning to canter comes from the rider not being able to doma good sitting trot and that they instinctively want to lean forward.
> 
> I would _never_ have a beginner learning to canter, go into two point.


More about the sitting trot to canter please. I’m 64 and starting over after a 45 year break. When I was a kid, no body taught me. I just got on and kept up. 

A year ago I was riding gaited horses on mountain who would shift to canter going up hill and it was effortless. Now I riding a paint cow pony that reminds me of a jack hammer. My two point is atrocious. My sitting trot, not so bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

@tinyliny. Hi, hope you are well. Ride in the rain. If the sun doesn’t warm your heart; the horse will. 

This sitting the canter seems like a challenge to me. 

I see dressage riders smoothly riding small circles on happy horses, working equitation and western shooters smoothly loping tight maneuvers with one or no hands on the reins. They are sitting. They look good. They are not riding half seat or two point. 

Two years ago I saw a particularly bad episode of barrel racing. Ladies charging the first barrel at a full gallop. Jerked reins open jaws hind quarters off balance. 

At the end a tall lanky rodeo clown on a paint loped out reins in a granite solid left hand. Right hand relaxed on his right thigh. His pony maintained a constant lope and good distance around the barrels. No charge in. Perfect balance. No hand slap, kick or whoop on the way out. Just a steady seated lope. The whole thing looked like he was moving in slow motion. He wasn’t competing, but they ran the clock and his time would have put him fourth. Happy horse, happy rider, seated lope. 

I wanna be like that when I grow up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

All I know is that I personally COULD NOT learn canter sitting, even though my sitting trot was my strongest gait, walk included. I tried literally for years - 3 to be exact. 

I switched schools and they put me in two-point. Once I had the opportunity to work out the rhythm, I was cantering in the saddle within a few months. 

Maybe it had something to do with fact that the horses I was riding wouldn’t stay in canter with an unbalanced rider and my attempts would end after a few strides - which didn’t happen in two-point. In two-point I could maintain the canter for however long I wanted.

Once I got used to the movement, sitting down was easy and I almost never canter in two-point now, even though I personally find it much easier (trot as well).


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Just to add, I think it is very different to teach canter to a child as opposed an adult. Most horses don’t mind an unbalanced child flopping around and will maintain the canter. A flopping adult is a different story. Horses I am in contact with will break canter for an unbalanced adult whereas they might carry on with a child.


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## Rob55 (Mar 6, 2014)

Well. My little paint will hold the canter until I ask him to stop while Im in the saddle like a sack of potatoes. He likes to canter. Sometimes when we have the trot going like a well oiled machine I have to rein him in a little because he wants to go. Can’t wait till I can oblige him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

bsms said:


> That is how VS Littauer, Harry Chamberlin and "The American Military Seat" taught two point: stand in your stirrups. If you 'stand in your stirrups', your knee (and ankle) acts as hinges to reduce peak impacts on the horse's back. If you two point using "thigh strength", you lose those hinges and reduce the effectiveness of two point in saving the horse's back.
> 
> Things have moved on a lot since those people taught 2 Point.
> Standing up in your stirrups is just that. It can't even be called 2 point because the actual term means 'having two parts of your body in contact with the horse. In 2 Point that is your knees.
> ...


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

There is a lot of technical advice on cantering which is great but I am wondering if the issue lies more with where your thinking is going while you are riding.


Sometimes we get so much information from people with a lot of knowledge that we over think it because we don't know what factor is the most important one. It is easy to get lost in details and end up micro managing yourself and second guessing yourself which can lead to what amounts to a bloody mess despite all the attention you are putting into little details. When you are learning something new there are always many aspects to take into consideration BUT there are always one or two key points that can be focused on which will allow other aspects to fall into place naturally.


If you can isolate that one part of your body which is not in sync during a canter and focus on correcting that, everything else will probably fall into place. The best place to start is just posture. Find the weak link in your posture and just focus on that aspect of your seat. Posture really is your priority when it comes to finding your balance in the canter.



Where are your hands? Where are your elbows? Can you keep your hands nice and low? Y/N - if no, focus on hand position you want your hands nice and low, firm grip but soft.
Are your elbows flapping like a wounded bird? Y/N - if yes focus on keeping those elbows close to the body but still fluid.


Is your back straight? Neck long, head up, shoulders straight, not hunched and rounded?


My point is that sometimes if you just really focus on one aspect of our body, keeping your elbows tucked in for example, then the rest of your body might automatically find the rhythm of the canter because you are not trying to micro manage every aspect of your position. I hope this makes some sense.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

jaydee said:


> bsms said:
> 
> 
> > ...Things have moved on a lot since those people taught 2 Point.
> ...


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## petaLS (Apr 2, 2014)

Feathers7 said:


> Back support, such as braces, can help keep you stable while you get the feel of things. =)
> 
> This website is full of yoga and strengthening exercises that are good for any riders, not just dressage riders:
> https://dressageridertraining.com/category/stability/
> https://dressageridertraining.com/category/suppleness/


I agree with emphasising the importance of off-horse stretching and strengthening exercises. Modern life (lots of sitting at the office, in the car etc) is unkind to the muscles in the hip/lower back areas. The OP may find sitting to the canter easier once these muscles are less tight and sore.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

bsms said:


> "_What most people do not understand is that the horse is basically standing on a pool of blood. It is easy to adjust their balance because of this. If a horse is standing on all four legs and you exert the slightest pressure with a finger on its shoulder then it will move the weight onto the opposite side"_
> 
> ???????
> 
> I have no idea what that means. Put pressure on Bandit's shoulder and he is likely to lean into you and expect a rub.


What that means is how the rider's weigh can have a great influence on how the horse moves


It is all very well quoting various old trainers, yes, they had a lot to teach and, as you say however, when Caprilli talks about the forward seat he is not advocating it is used all the time. 

The videos you posted of,the canter in slow motion show serious dressage riders on very schooled horses. Watch an experienced rider working a green horse not long backed and, yes they will have their weight off the horse's back. As the horse learns and strengthens so they will ask more. 

As for Badit being able to canter tighter circles when you are out the saddle, perhaps it is because he hasn't had his back muscles strengthened and/or you are not as well balanced when you canter sitting?


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## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

Ok so not to deviate much but I'm semi sort of a rerider (okay one year off and not doing what I used to coming back into it), but one of my trainers wants me to two point the canter because my seat needs a little work. But I can never keep a horse going in two point due to my legs (I ride horses that often need a lot of leg/nagging to keep forward). Now, she hasn't 'forced' me to do a lot of two point, but I honestly want to work on my seat and am more inclined to work on my position via stirrupless than two point. I'm reading here on this thread that two point needs to be worked up to. I agree. I just don't have the position I used to have when I was regularly riding. Riding in two point doesn't feel very nice to me, I feel disconnected and I'm not strong enough to apply leg aids to the lazy horses I'm riding from that position. 

So if I may chime in (again), I think the best way to learn to sit the canter would be to get a good foundation without stirrups at the sitting trot. I know it can be a bit bouncy and is a far cry from the rocking position of the canter, but at least it gives you a chance to work on your position a bit. Then move onto a stirrupless canter on a slow horse. I wanted to see where my issues were coming from with my legs and failure to keep a long leg/toes up came from. I ditched the stirrups and went into a canter, only to find myself bracing on the reins a bit. Sometimes without stirrups you can feel what you do with stirrups that is causing a hindrance to your riding.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Um wow, I feel for the Original Poster who asked for simple advice and got some really complicated feedback. 

So, so be brief, I agree that riding the canter in two-point for any length of time is a bad idea. I know my coach would not allow it. 

I just want to suggest to the OP, as an adult re-rider, that core muscles are really important in sitting the canter, but so is the ability to relax the back and shoulders without letting them go completely. The core muscles give stability and support while the back softens and absorbs the motion. But in the end, each horse is different and each person is different, so just keep riding the canter. Ride it until you feel it. Like, really FEEL it. Feel the rhythm of it, let it sink into you. Soften your body, but hold yourself together with your core. Do some yoga before and after. Stretch out those muscles. Canter some more, until it's just no big deal.


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## Shortyhorses4me (Jun 17, 2018)

Horsef said:


> Just to add, I think it is very different to teach canter to a child as opposed an adult. Most horses don’t mind an unbalanced child flopping around and will maintain the canter. A flopping adult is a different story. Horses I am in contact with will break canter for an unbalanced adult whereas they might carry on with a child.


I think you nailed it here. I am a new to riding adult, been having lessons for a year and a half. I've continued to work on canter, trying for more contact each time. What's interesting is if I'm in what isn't two point but more of a half seat (like the icelandics use, he's an Icelandic), he'll go in canter fine. But if I try too hard for contact/follow his motion and get out of sync, he'll drop to trot or tolt. I do get to cheat a bit and ask him into canter from tolt, but practice from trot too. His canter is very up and down, and so I have to try to chase his movement on the down. I feel like I'm not bouncing on him quite so much, I think it's getting better. I try to relax my knees and ankles as much as I can, but usually don't start out that way. Thanks for all the comments!


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