# Jumping/Horse Critique



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you're not going to like what I've got to say, but here it is:

you need to go back to riding on the flat. you do not have a steady leg. it is way out in front of you, and consequently, you are relying on the rein to steady yourself. the horse does not trust your hand/release, so is not jumping as confidently as she could. she is also very stiff, but this is something that should be addresses in flatwork.


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## GarnetJewels (Mar 1, 2015)

That makes sense to me. I can't really just go back to flatting, though. My lease includes a weekly lesson that's pretty much centered around jumping; it's a hunter/jumper barn with a big focus on jumpers.

Any ideas on fixing the stiffness? I've been trying to work on the flat canter but I haven't made all that much progress so far.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

well, it looks like your stirrups might be a bit long. I don't know, but your legs seem forward too much. Do you /have you done much stirrup-less work?

you have to be really steady in your seat in order to be able to offer the horse a steady hand. it just looks like you are leaning back to much.

as far as the hrose goes, just working at the walk, getting her to soften to the bit and to do leg yeids, back ups, shoulder in smaller circles. things like that might help.

If only you could take some dressage lessons with her.


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## GarnetJewels (Mar 1, 2015)

I have in the past, but not since I switched to this barn. They really don't do much with flatwork at all.

Yeah, it's a bad habit. She also bucks pretty often, so I ride more defensively on her then I would with some other horses, although I'm probably putting her off balance..so I'll try moving further forward and putting my leg back.

Alright, I'll give all that a go next time I ride her. Thank you!

I know..unfortunately none of the instructors at my barn really do that kind of thing. I think there might be a dressage clinic coming up pretty soon there, though.


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## crazeepony (Dec 8, 2013)

I don't know anything about jumping. I have a young horse and would like to try eventually if he likes it. After watching all the eventing horses at the ranch, I agree with Tinyliny- the horse seems like she is really uptight. That would make sense that she bucks. Maybe it is her or maybe she doesn't feel confident? Can you try a different horse for a while? One that would build your experience as a jumper? I know that is what my trainer would say. That is a shame that they don't support flat work. I think if you both had a better trust in each other. Perhaps you can do a different discipline for a time and go to a different barn.


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## Hailey1203 (Dec 12, 2010)

Judging by what you've said... I think its time to find a better barn.


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## GarnetJewels (Mar 1, 2015)

Hailey1203 said:


> Judging by what you've said... I think its time to find a better barn.


Believe it or not, I've tried all of the ones within viable driving distance and this one is the best. It's not really too bad, just a bit overly focused on jumpers.

Although my instructor did eventing for a really long time at a high level, so I'm not sure why that is.



crazeepony said:


> I don't know anything about jumping. I have a young horse and would like to try eventually if he likes it. After watching all the eventing horses at the ranch, I agree with Tinyliny- the horse seems like she is really uptight. That would make sense that she bucks. Maybe it is her or maybe she doesn't feel confident? Can you try a different horse for a while? One that would build your experience as a jumper? I know that is what my trainer would say. That is a shame that they don't support flat work. I think if you both had a better trust in each other. Perhaps you can do a different discipline for a time and go to a different barn.


She is really uptight, but I get along with her much better than literally everyone else who has ever ridden her for whatever reason, so I figured we might make an okay team. Maybe not, though..she also legitimately tries to kick me when I'm brushing her/tacking up, so her personality isn't the best in the world haha. (I know it's not a pain issue, if she's eating hay or something she takes no notice of me and doesn't tense up at all.)

Her not feeling confident would make sense, she's the clumsiest horse I've ever ridden and she had virtually no experience jumping-and I suspect being ridden English- before she came to my barn and I started working with her.

I could try a different horse, but all of the schoolmasters/experienced horses are already leased..all that's left are the greenies, although there are some of those with significantly more scope than her. I'd really like to keep riding her, but I guess I'd be open to switching if it would be better for both of us.

My instructor is trying to get me into jumpers (really sharp turns and speed) but I'd rather not and I don't think she'd be the best candidate for it.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

GarnetJewels said:


> That makes sense to me. I can't really just go back to flatting, though. My lease includes a weekly lesson that's pretty much centered around jumping; it's a hunter/jumper barn with a big focus on jumpers.
> 
> Any ideas on fixing the stiffness? I've been trying to work on the flat canter but I haven't made all that much progress so far.


I don't like that approach. The most important part of jumping is flatwork. If I were you, I'd ask for lessons focusing on flatwork and pole work. If they want you jumping their horse before you're ready, I'd question their training methods.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, watching her take some of the jumps, she tend to have very little bascule, and something about the way she brings her hind legs over the jumps makes me think she might be a bit uncomfortable. I am not sure it it's that she is afraid of being bopped in the mouth, or her back or what. 

really, you would do better to get comments from those that jump horses. I can see general things but cannot offer much in the way of advice for a better jumping equitation.


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## GarnetJewels (Mar 1, 2015)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> I don't like that approach. The most important part of jumping is flatwork. If I were you, I'd ask for lessons focusing on flatwork and pole work. If they want you jumping their horse before you're ready, I'd question their training methods.


I'd love more flatting lessons, but they're group lessons (8-10 people) and I don't have much of a say in what we do.

They have around 40 lesson horses..it's a huge commercial barn. They have people that hardly know how to jump 2' courses jumping really, really green horses fairly often.

My mare actually crashed through the smallest crossrails I could make last summer..I don't think she'd ever jumped before. They almost sold her, but they let her stay because I managed to teach her enough to cart kids around small courses. She was also ridiculously crooked and unbalanced on the flat. I'm literally the one who trained her, the owner's never ridden her.

I know, their methods are pretty bad unless it's one of their fancy show horses. It's the only barn around with a good leasing program and a decent instructor, though.




tinyliny said:


> Well, watching her take some of the jumps, she tend to have very little bascule, and something about the way she brings her hind legs over the jumps makes me think she might be a bit uncomfortable. I am not sure it it's that she is afraid of being bopped in the mouth, or her back or what.
> 
> really, you would do better to get comments from those that jump horses. I can see general things but cannot offer much in the way of advice for a better jumping equitation.


I wasn't sure if it was something like that or if she was just being lazy or didn't have the scope, but now that I think about it, that's probably true. It might be her back, she's always been oddly sensitive about it.

All the same, I appreciate the advice. Thank you


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I used to ride at a VERY big hunter/jumper lesson barn (100+ horses on the property) and on occasion I'd take group lessons. The instructor would have some riders ride circles around the jumps or would put them down to poles for that rider's "course" so they still got to participate, but at their level. It is dangerous and painful for both horse and rider to be forced to ride at a higher level than they should be or are comfortable with. 

I personally would never let someone jump my horse if they weren't schooled properly, and that's because I care about his comfort and training too much. I also wouldn't want someone to get bucked off if he got peeved at their riding. That's not to say I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a novice rider on my horse, so long as they were riding at a level they were properly trained for and one they were comfortable at. 

I just think it's not fair to you, and it most certainly is not fair to the horse.


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## GarnetJewels (Mar 1, 2015)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> I used to ride at a VERY big hunter/jumper lesson barn (100+ horses on the property) and on occasion I'd take group lessons. The instructor would have some riders ride circles around the jumps or would put them down to poles for that rider's "course" so they still got to participate, but at their level. It is dangerous and painful for both horse and rider to be forced to ride at a higher level than they should be or are comfortable with.
> 
> I personally would never let someone jump my horse if they weren't schooled properly, and that's because I care about his comfort and training too much. I also wouldn't want someone to get bucked off if he got peeved at their riding. That's not to say I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a novice rider on my horse, so long as they were riding at a level they were properly trained for and one they were comfortable at.
> 
> I just think it's not fair to you, and it most certainly is not fair to the horse.


Mmh yeah, you're right.

The classes are supposed to be made up of people who are at roughly the same level, though. The owner of the barn (my instructor) evaluated my riding and put me in Advanced B, which is 2'9-3' courses and some X country.
I am actually at the same level as most of the other people in my class and better than a few of them. I guess her evaluating skills aren't too great.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

hey, I am not saying you are not a good rider. you got over those jumps better than I could. But, I think that possibly, based only on that video, you got kind of moved along without addressing some things that will make yoiu a GOOD rider. 

I'm a pretty mediocre rider. I can "manage" in dressage, or on the trail.  but, if I were serious about it, I'd have to go fill in a lot of missing pieces to become a good rider. you'll get there!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

^^ I second that. You are a good rider, and it's obvious you not only have talent, but guts! I just think that your trainer would do you a service to help you build a more solid foundation.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

A lot of the problems I see with this horse is that she isn't being set up well for the jumps. Her distances are consistently poor and she comes around the corners bent to the outside. If I were you I'd start working consistently on the flat (if you can't do so in your lessons, do so during your solo rides) and get your mare bending consistently and correctly. 

Jackson, for example, has a very long body and was very stiff for awhile when I first got him. We warmed up with circles of all sizes really over-doing the inside bend until he grasped the concept and we were able to adjust our bend to the appropriate amount. Coming out of the corner with the correct bend will do wonders for your pace, power and approach to the jump. 

Set up a course of poles and go back to pole work on your days off. Work on getting consistent distances so your poles feel like just another canter stride. Circle before, make sure you're coming with the appropriate bend and stride. Set up different stride lengths and work on them as poles on the ground. You came into your one stride with a poor distance and you 'accepted' that distance, which meant your stride to the second portion of it was also short and choppy (and you broke to the trot afterward). Learn to ride those kinds of things effectively, if you come in and you don't have enough power then either PUSH so your horse makes some effort over the second jump or sit back and compact your step so you can at least get a decent distance.

At about ~40 seconds in you're coming to a green and yellow jump close to the camera. For a second your mare looks like she's about to bend nicely... if the jump had been closer to the arena wall aka in her track and just before approaching you jerk her head around to point her at the jump. She lifts her head up as if to say 'oh crap! there's a jump there!' gets an off distance and hits the pole with her front legs. After that jump it looks like you pick up the wrong canter lead... I don't know if you were trying to change it but at that point she broke into a trot and rushed at the jump, ears pinned. If I had been in that situation I would have brought her back to a relaxed trot, picked up my canter, circled and approached the jump with an even stride.

I think this horse has potential to go higher with the right training. IMO she's not READY to be jumping this height yet, especially if she's only been jumping for a year. Try taking her back to those basics and making sure she's confident and comfortable- with a horse who is still relatively "green" over fences you need to learn how to set them up to succeed (by showing them the right distance, getting them straight to the base of a jump) and you would be amazed at how much they improve.


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## GarnetJewels (Mar 1, 2015)

Hey, I just want to say thank you to everyone that's given me advice in this thread! The second we moved into the canter, my instructor started commenting on how much more balanced we looked..and when we jumped, her energy was much, much better. I can't believe how much happier we are as a team already, can't wait to see how much better we'll get with time. 




alexischristina said:


> A lot of the problems I see with this horse is that she isn't being set up well for the jumps. Her distances are consistently poor and she comes around the corners bent to the outside. If I were you I'd start working consistently on the flat (if you can't do so in your lessons, do so during your solo rides) and get your mare bending consistently and correctly.
> 
> Jackson, for example, has a very long body and was very stiff for awhile when I first got him. We warmed up with circles of all sizes really over-doing the inside bend until he grasped the concept and we were able to adjust our bend to the appropriate amount. Coming out of the corner with the correct bend will do wonders for your pace, power and approach to the jump.
> 
> ...



Ah, that makes sense. I have been really working on her bend on the flat since the video was taken; she's quite a bit better with it now, but still very stiff and tends to want to stick her head to the outside. 

I wouldn't have tried to turn her for the jump after the green one at all on my own (I need to work on her balance around turns first and it was an awful approach), but my instructor really disapproves of us circling on course and wants us to turn as sharply as possible (jumpers..)
That really wasn't fair to her, though. I wish I'd done it differently.

I'll definitely try the pole idea, that really seems like it could help us both. Thanks so much!


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## SirComet (Feb 21, 2014)

From what you said, I hope that trainer is not jumping those horses all the time...2 times a week is industry standard if you want to keep them sound into their senior years. Every day (or every ride for that matter)...they won't have any legs left 

Honestly, if it were up to me...find a new barn even if they don't have a lesson program. Attend clinics when you can, or just keep looking. Convenience doesn't win over safety and care in my book!


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I ride jumpers as well, and even riding competitive jumpers those types of 'tight turns' are NOT ideal. The type of 'tight turn' you want to do is balanced, on the correct bend and on an even canter stride. You need to improve her balance and her jumping ability before you focus on the tight turns.

I'm really surprised that your coach disapproves of circling on course when you're schooling, especially on a horse with obvious issues on course... and that those are the types of tight turns she's teaching you. It's NOT correct by any means.


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

You've said many times that you chose this barn because of its lesson program ... Based on everything you have told us, I think that's the reason you should run far away from this barn.


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