# This mare to this stud?



## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

This is my mare








10 year old breeding stock paint
Consistent 2D/3D NBHA barrel horse
Her pedigree
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/daylate+patty+cake

To this stud
http://www.lazyearperformancehorses.com/stallions.php?hi_id=1021

His pedigree
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/strait+firewater

The foal would obviously be used for barrels, and be my personal foal. Also given it would be a grandson/daughter of Firewater Flit I think if I ever had too sell, it wouldn't be to hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The stallion's website, for some reason, is not loading very well for me. Do you have any conformation shots?

Based on your mare's build, I would not breed her at all. Her hocks are very straight, her croup is steep (as is her shoulder), her legs are insubstantial, and her pasterns appear weak.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Another pic of mare








_Posted via Mobile Device_

This is the best pic of the stud









If your really curious google Strait Firewater, he stands at Lazy E Performance horses


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I really wish they had a good confo shot up. It's so very unprofessional of a stallion owner. He also appears to have insubstantial legs, perhaps a funny hock set, and a bull neck...but who can really tell from that photo?


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Better here, but such a tiny pic. His pasterns appear short and upright. Hocks still seem on the straight side.

If he is not homozygous tobiano, you realize that the foal has a good chance of being registerable only as a SPB, right? And I stand by my initial assessment of the mare as not being breeding quality.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Im not looking for color, just a Paint with good bloodlines and can run. If I luck into color that's great, but not priority. Thanks for your opinion.

Im wanting to know if my mares faults and his faults can be balanced out.

My mare does have long pasterns, but they've never bothered her. Her shoulder is steeper, but she still has a good stride.

Im looking at this stud because he is a paint with desirable lines, my mare isn't bred the best but she's not lacking completely either. Plus he has a nice show record to back him up. My mare is athletic, and can run a good set of barrels she's just a slower horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

See, this:



> she's just a slower horse.


Coupled with the conformation faults that she _does_ have, and her lack of impressive pedigree, and the fact that she's just a 2D/3D local horse (which, quite frankly, most horses can be with the proper training)...why, exactly, do you want to breed her? What justifies it in your mind?


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Never said local. I run NBHA and IBRA shows, where barrel racing is the most competitive sport around here. I can do rodeos with her where she's less than a second off people who do CPR rodeos, she runs better in a rodeo pen. I've hauled her out of state, still a competitive 2D horse. At local NBHA shows im still running against the people who win at NBHA State Show. 
She's smart, athletic, never been lame, she's completely sound. She's calm, collected, versatile. Runs a 23 second pole pattern. She is a good horse with a few conformation faults, but those faults don't keep her from performing.

There's quite frankly alot worse horses being bred, and I did not ask if I should breed her. I asked if her and that stud would be a good match, and that question has not been answered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

From what I understand of the US horse market, it would be cheaper and quicker to buy a horse that meets your requirements, especially if what you are after is a Paint. You could probably get a horse that is of much better quality than one you could breed, with a low price and ready to start now rather than in 4 years time.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

None of her achievements, sorry to say, are particularly impressive. I have a mare who was 1D at the local level and who, before becoming injured, was looking to have the potential to be a winning 2D _world_ horse. She was beating pro rodeo horses when they schmoozed on the local circuit. She has incredible heart and incredibly athleticism. Her conformation and bloodlines are, truly, better than your mare's--but because she did not hold up physically, despite everything working in her favor--I cannot justify breeding her and risking perpetuating more of the same.

I've had a little 14.1 hand grade pony, chubby and stout, who could, without expending much effort, run 21-second poles. I have a big old grade Paint gelding who is a 20-second pole horse and 1D local barrel horse...or was, until he became crippled and undiagnosable by multiple vets and farriers. Were he a mare, I also would not breed him, for his unsoundness alone.

Only the best horses should be bred. Your mare does not appear to rank among that number--not by bloodlines, conformation, athleticism, or achievments. No, you did not specifically ask whether your mare should be bred, but it is absolutely relevant to your original question. I suggest you familiarize yourself more with the horse market at large.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

The stud is nice enough & you would be breeding for what you want. Not a fan of the mare's neck & shoulder but there's no saying that will be passed on. If you plan on breeding the mare no matter what i see no problems with the match.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

lilruffian said:


> The stud is nice enough & you would be breeding for what you want. Not a fan of the mare's neck & shoulder but there's no saying that will be passed on. If you plan on breeding the mare no matter what i see no problems with the match.


Thank you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Now here is pics of her under saddle in a pleasure class, obviously not a pleasure horse but it shows her moving. 








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bagof4grapes (Jul 31, 2011)

I agree wholeheartedly with bubba13. Your mare is not even close to breeding quality. Sure, the foal could possibly turn out possessing all of your mare's good qualities and all of the stud's good qualities and none of their bad qualities, but that's very unlikely to happen. Chances are the baby will look and move just like your mare. The foal could also inherit all of the dam and sire's faults and none of their good qualities. Are you prepared for that? What if the foal is crippled and is bound for life as a pasture ornament? Do you have the resources to give lifelong care to a horse that you can't use or sell?

Even a mare and stud who are as close to perfect as a horse can be can have poor quality foals. It happens, and a good breeder is prepared for it. A good breeder will have the time and resources to care for a horse they've created who may not be up to snuff for the general horse market. But they make up for it with the excellent horses they produce. That's why the good breeders can make a living out of it and the bad breeders or backyard breeders can't. They can't support all the cruddy horses they breed because they're not making enough money off of their good horses.

Besides, this world already has far too many horses in it, many who are bound for slaughter or are being neglected because their owners have more horses than they can afford. Most are sound and many are of excellent quality and training. Go to a local auction and buy a barrel horse of your chosen breed, age, gender, and color who's already trained for $500 and save it from being bought by a meat buyer. It would save you a lot of guesswork, time, money, and grief when the foal didn't turn out as you were hoping.

Please, for the sake of unwanted horses everywhere.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I have to concur that I wouldn't bred that mare either, however in answer to your question, I think he would make a good choice for your mare if you are going to breed her...he brings a lot of strength and speed to the table. Whether he would correct her shortcomings is just a guess if this is their first pairing - sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, and I am clueless how prepotent the stallion is or will be. I think the only thing that would bother me about using that particular stallion is from the pictures (and of course it is always hard to tell from pictures) he, like your mare, appears to be a bit light boned and weak jointed in the legs, so I would expect their foal to be similar. That is good for speed, of course, just so the foal would hold up to your rigorous performance work. If the foal were similar in leg development, you would just need to be patient and not rush it into training too soon. I think the foal would likely have the speed you want - and maybe then some. It would just be a question of durability...


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Ok then, this is another stud I was looking at. I don't think he's as proven, but he's built different than Strait Firewater

This is Sky High Fame. Son of Dash Ta Fame

Sky High Fame APHA - Sorrel Tobiano Paint Stallion by Dash Ta Fame out of Snazzy Indian Sky by Sky Jet
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Why are you looking at Paints instead of Quarter Horses? The buckskin stud appears better built overall. The sorrel is very unbalanced--camped out, weak behind, downhill, cut out behind the knee, short/straight pasterns, almost ewe-necked.

But again...if you're so dead-set on breeding, why not purchase a better mare who is worth being bred?


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

To everyone saying I shouldn't breed her,
I know the horse market is crap, its been crap for years. Buying a foal would still be gambling on if it would be good or not. If I do breed her it will be after I know I can afford all costs. I just want 1 foal out of this mare, just 1. I know she's of average conformation and breeding. I will keep the foal, as mine, even if its not a 1D horse. The barrel horse market hasn't been affected in my area. No horse has perfect conformation, she has decent conformation for what she does. This is not a im better than you thread, I don't care your horse runs better times than mine. Btw my mare is an unfinished pole horse, ran at shows maybe 10 times. This is just my horse that I want to breed once, im trying to find the best stud to make up for her flaws and breeding. I want big names on the papers, a pretty horse, working conformation. Doesn't have to be perfect conformation. So with that im looking for a nice stud to one day breed her too (maybe). Preferably a Paint, since she is a Paint, but a Quarter Horse is also good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Sorry, I totally missed the part where she was a Paint--thought she was a Quarter. My bad. Ignore all of the previous color comments, then.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

bubba13 said:


> Why are you looking at Paints instead of Quarter Horses? The buckskin stud appears better built overall. The sorrel is very unbalanced--camped out, weak behind, downhill, cut out behind the knee, short/straight pasterns, almost ewe-necked.
> 
> But again...if you're so dead-set on breeding, why not purchase a better mare who is worth being bred?


See you picked out why I didn't like him. She's registered a Paint, her foal would be too, I was just trying to find a Paint stud if I could. Because if I wanted to do that id just buy a foal instead. The point is breeding MY mare. Not buying a broodmare to breed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

bubba13 said:


> Sorry, I totally missed the part where she was a Paint--thought she was a Quarter. My bad. Ignore all of the previous color comments, then.


That's fine, though if you looked at her breeding she's not a true paint. Just the unfortunate filly of a crop out QH sire. Her breeding is all QH with some TB thrown in. So its a crapshot for color, but I don't care about color. That's just the cherry on top, as long as its mainly a Paint. Though will have almost all QH breeding.
Her name is Daylate Patty Cake if my links aren't working.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

No, your mare is not breeding quality.
No one has tried to say their horse is better than your mare because they get better times. It's called a comparison.
You asked about breeding your mare to a stud (I do think that the first one isn't half bad, but I would still not breed your mare to a near perfect stud), you're goingto get opinions on breeding her in general. Put on some big girl pants and deal with it, you're on a public forum with knowledgable people who love/enjoy horses.
Your mare isn't anything special (in general terms). To you, she might just be the best horse and you most likely love her to death, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not practical to breed her. Just because she has a uterus, does not mean that she should be bred. 23 second pole bending patterns are crap compared to the higher level horses; there's a mare at our barn who runs 22s and she's 25-26, it's not a big deal.

Everyone is trying to tell you that they don't think your mare is worth breeding, not that they think their horse is oh so much better or that your mare is crappy. She's obviously not a horse that has horrible conformation, but it's nowhere near perfect. I've seen absolutely amazing horses for my area (barrel racing, etc) that haven't been bred because it's not practical. 
I would, like others, suggest picking up a colt/filly around 3-4 years instead of breeding. You're going to pay a TON more to breed your mare (along with risking her health/life, and the foal's health/life), than if you would get a horse that's already been bred (unnecessarily or not). There's much more chance that the foal will end up not being ridable if you bred it from her, than if you bought a horse from someone or got it at auction. And if it's the baby factor that you're looking for because you want to start it from scratch, just go get a yearling instead of a 3-4 yr old. There's no shame in getting a horse from auction as opposed to breeding it, like so many people seem to think nowadays. You will most likely be saving a horse's life, and getting a horse closest to what you're looking to get when you buy a horse from auction. 

Now, main point since I may have rambled a bit.
-It'e be much safer (for both your mare, your bank account, and the possible foal to be bred) to buy a horse that meets your requirements from auction/seller as opposed to breeding your mare.
-Everyone is trying to help you. No one has been trying to put you/your mare down, talk down to you, etc.
-Your mare is not breeding quality. Period. There's nothing that much more special about her as any other horse other than the emotional/sentimental factor. Why risk her health/life for a foal when you could pick a cheap one (that would be just as good, if not better) from auction? I just don't seethe practicality of it.
And I think those were my main points, just to wrap it up.
But none of us can make your choice for you, and ultimately it is your choice. None of us can stop you, we can only give our opinions and advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

BarrelRacer- she's your mare and you need to do what YOU feel is right. I can understand wanting to breed your mare. I recently lost a stellar, once in a lifetime mare I wish I had bred in retrospect. I'm fortunate to have her full sister. 
We may do the best we can to help unfortunate creatures others have abandoned, and I've done my share of that, but we can't abandon our own dreams because others are irresponsible. If that were the case, no one should have kids either..
It's your choice.


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## bagof4grapes (Jul 31, 2011)

Also, I highly recommend that you take a look at the Fugly Horse of the Day blog. You'll learn a lot.

You'll also learn about why the situation of horses is nothing like the situation of humans, Druydess.


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## Mocha26 (Oct 27, 2010)

Sorry people are so incredibly rude :/ this thread is full of really mean comments in my opinion. I see nothing wrong with wanting to have a foal out of YOUR own mare, one you love and would like to have a part of when she's gone. I do not have an answer to your question. Just wanted to point out that honestly, it's no ones business if you want to breed your mare or not. Thats not what you ask so everyone needs to get on track here and kindly answer your advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

bagof4grapes said:


> Also, I highly recommend that you take a look at the Fugly Horse of the Day blog. You'll learn a lot.
> 
> You'll also learn about why the situation of horses is nothing like the situation of humans, Druydess.


I already know the situation Bags. As someone who deals with cast-off humans, and the ramifications thereof, - I beg to differ with you. 
Badgering someone will never bring them around to a way of thinking. The OP was asking about her mare and a potential stallion- not a breeding lecture.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Iseul said:


> No, your mare is not breeding quality.
> No one has tried to say their horse is better than your mare because they get better times. It's called a comparison.
> You asked about breeding your mare to a stud (I do think that the first one isn't half bad, but I would still not breed your mare to a near perfect stud), you're goingto get opinions on breeding her in general. Put on some big girl pants and deal with it, you're on a public forum with knowledgable people who love/enjoy horses.
> Your mare isn't anything special (in general terms). To you, she might just be the best horse and you most likely love her to death, but it doesn't change the fact that it's not practical to breed her. Just because she has a uterus, does not mean that she should be bred. 23 second pole bending patterns are crap compared to the higher level horses; there's a mare at our barn who runs 22s and she's 25-26, it's not a big deal.
> ...


I never asked if my mare was breeding quality, I asked if the stud would be a good match. My mare has faults, every horse does. Breeding is such a touchy subject. But around here for good horses there's still a market. And I don't believe I've called anyone names. I've been called selfish, told to go buy a rescue, and i'll be killing other foals if I breed my mare. Financially it might be cheaper for me to go buy a foal for$ 1,000 or so but I could breed my mare get that sentimental attachment, and the well bred colt all in one. 
In reality breeding her is just a thought right now, always has been. Its not certain that I will ever breed her, she's 10 years old, to much older and I wont risk it. Its a thought I want onions on, without people telling me how horribly built she is. I want an honest evaluation of her and the stud to see if they could make a nice foal together. Not whether or not she's breeding quality, or at least tell me she's not breeding quality and answer my question too.

Sorry if I come off with a god awful attitude, but when I want a questioned answered. I want it answered, not to get alot of replies telling me something I didn't ask.

But i apologize to anyone I offended.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Dru - while I understand your point, I do have to say that this board is very anti- breeding your average everyday horse, like this one is. Can I understand wanting to have a foal out of a beloved mare? You betcha. Do I think it's a good reason to breed? Hell no. 
I really don't want to get into it much at all, but I've stressed my thumbs to type this much, so it would be a waste to delete it. 
She could buy better than she could breed for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

For example, the 1D barrel horse I mentioned earlier...purchased for the equivalent of $200 and a not-unlikely future candidate for the kill pen when I got her.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Dru - while I understand your point, I do have to say that this board is very anti- breeding your average everyday horse, like this one is. Can I understand wanting to have a foal out of a beloved mare? You betcha. Do I think it's a good reason to breed? Hell no.
> I really don't want to get into it much at all, but I've stressed my thumbs to type this much, so it would be a waste to delete it.
> She could buy better than she could breed for.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, she could buy better.. anyone can buy better than they have.
But she has a choice to do as SHE feels is right for her. It's not anyone's right to decide what is a correct decision for another.
But sometimes you have to influence matters the best you can. Shutting someone down will not help, so sometimes one must guide an outcome that's going to happen whether one agrees with it or not, or forfeit any possibility of improving it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Reading through the thread (and cleaning out VERY personal and quite insulting remarks) I was appalled by how the OP was attacked. If you have something to say (even something not very pleasant for another person), please do it nicely. _*And for those who obviously don't remember, may be it's time to re-read** the Etiquette Policy! *_(see here http://www.horseforum.com/horse-forum-rules-announcements/conscientious-etiquette-policy-6069/ )

OP, all I want to say is indeed breeding question is very touchy here and usually causes lots of heat-up discussions.


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## Serendipitous (May 27, 2011)

If this future possible foal is "well-bred," it will be due in part to strangers' opinions on the internet. Weird.

Also, "well-bred" does not always equal useful. If you are looking for more than a pasture pet, despite your future foal's impeccable breeding, an already here prospect is far less chancy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

I intend to buy more prospects, I've bought plenty. My mare was a prospect. I have a 2 year old, im going to save up for a nice 4-6 year old to show. Im thinking of when both my new prospects are going good, if I have the money and time, breeding for one. This could be 2 to 4 years from now. I could change my mind by then, the market might be back up, it might sink even lower. We can't tell the future. Im not breeding her tomorrow, or probably even next year. All im doing is putting my thoughts onto paper. Which has just gotten me rude, insulting comments. All I want is an opinion on if Strait Firewater would be a good match for my mare. And if not maybe find another stud you think would be. If I do breed her, I want to breed to the best stud I can find. So if you would, be kind in your post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

BarrelRacer86 said:


> I intend to buy more prospects, I've bought plenty. My mare was a prospect. I have a 2 year old, im going to save up for a nice 4-6 year old to show. Im thinking of when both my new prospects are going good, if I have the money and time, breeding for one. This could be 2 to 4 years from now. I could change my mind by then, the market might be back up, it might sink even lower. We can't tell the future. Im not breeding her tomorrow, or probably even next year. All im doing is putting my thoughts onto paper. Which has just gotten me rude, insulting comments. All I want is an opinion on if Strait Firewater would be a good match for my mare. And if not maybe find another stud you think would be. If I do breed her, I want to breed to the best stud I can find. So if you would, be kind in your post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did not comment I just didnt have anything to add but I was disgusted by all the attacks. I hear great things about Firewater Flit bred horses my area is extremely big on barrel racing I hope you get what you want and good luck on your races.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

If you plan to keep the foal I honestly don't see the problem with this. Nice stallion. Hope the foal goes good for you. : )


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

I prefer the first stallion. Don't let the nay-sayers get you down. I've seen top pedigreed/conformationally correct horses produce a lot of crap and some lower pedigreed/conformationally incorrect horses produce some of the best horses around. Breeding is all chance anyway, we just try to pair the best we can and hope for the best. Good luck.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

That's the problem with a forum that is SO anti-breeding. There's no room for the people that are pro-breeding (even in this case, where the OP is looking to breed two registered animals for performance purposes). Everyone just spends their time trying to convince the OP to change their mind altogether instead of answer their questions. sigh.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

BR86, 

As I guess you've noticed by now, there's a lot of passionate anti-breeding sentiment on this board. :shock:

I don't disagree with the majority of the points made re: the financial realities of breeding, what makes a horse exceptional enough to consider breeding, the advisability of buying versus breeding, etc. 

Many of the posters who expressed strong feelings on the subject have first hand experience with rescue organizations, slaughter auctions or veterinary facilities so they see first hand the terrible consequences of indiscriminate breeding, so they are understandably very passionate on the subject. 

However, where I disagree with these good horsepeople is in identifying the culprits. I don't have the same level of censure for a hobby horseperson with an ordinary mare that they adore, that they want to breed to keep a little piece of the mare, than I do for racehorse breeders, halter breeders and color breeders. A hobby breeder like yourself, even multiplied by 100, doesn't flood the market with horses in the same way a race horse breeder who thinks it's acceptable to put 10 foals on the ground to get one starter, and 20 foals on the ground to get one winner.

Your mare has quite a legitimate performance record compared to a lot of the horses being bred for color or for halter showing right now. I save my anti-breeding ire for folks who think that carrying the genes for perlino/cremello/champagne/grulla/dun/tobiano or having halter points is more than enough reason to breed regardless of whether it's broke or ever seen the inside of an arena.

So, I'm sorry you got such vehement and agressive responses and I hope it doesn't put you off a wonderful community of horsepeople. 

Now, to answer your original question, if I *had* to choose a stallion for your mare, I'd be looking to improve first her hind end and then her shoulder. I would look for an Appendix QH that retained the QH butt but got some shoulder and length of stride from the TB. No guarantee that the stallion will pass those on to the resulting foal, but that's where I'd concentrate my search. I'm not crazy about the stallion pictured at the beginning of the thread for her; he has a couple of the same weaknesses she does.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Equilove said:


> That's the problem with a forum that is SO anti-breeding. There's no room for the people that are pro-breeding (even in this case, where the OP is looking to breed two registered animals for performance purposes). Everyone just spends their time trying to convince the OP to change their mind altogether instead of answer their questions. sigh.



That is why I don't bother to even post anymore.

I am not familiar with paint studs so can't offer any suggestions. But all I can say if you are set on breeding, get the best one you can afford and try to look at their offspring, esp if they can show you what the mare looked like as it MAY give you an idea of how well it crosses.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Very well put maura.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I guess I got here after the rude comments had been weeded out, because I don't see any "attacking" comments. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I quite like your mare. She's nothing exceptional, but she's a good, solid riding horse who's doing well in barrels for you. I like the first stud the best, but I would still keep looking if I were you. Look not only for a good barrel horse, but one that does a great job of complimenting your mare's faults.

Good luck!


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Equilove said:


> That's the problem with a forum that is SO anti-breeding. There's no room for the people that are pro-breeding (even in this case, where the OP is looking to breed two registered animals for performance purposes). Everyone just spends their time trying to convince the OP to change their mind altogether instead of answer their questions. sigh.


There is certainly a lot of truth to that, but you can usually tell who the experienced breeders are, and they/we are not what I would term "anti-breeding" - it's just that we have been there, done that, and hate to see people make the same mistakes that you know darn well we made ourselves years ago. Then there are the youngsters that know it all and jump on the most popular bandwagons - they are easy to spot too. Hopefully the OP can spot the difference.

One of the issues most breeders would have with the OP, is that she is trying to find a good stallion for a mediocre (not bad) mare, and most breeders will tell you the mare is the key player and exerts more influence than the stallion. With that being said though, in my opinion she did a pretty darn good job of finding a stallion that was a reasonably good match for her mare - probably a better job than many that profess to have a knowledge of breeding would do. She is also doing the right thing by asking questions getting opinions, and doing some research well in advance of actually breeding...I wish everyone would do that.

Everyone has the right to breed what they want, and I would be among the first to defend that right, so that is the box we have to stay within. It does no good to outright discourage breeding...that just elicits a backlash reaction.
It is far better to try to help someone arrive at informed and logical decisions. I have no qualms about telling the OP just what I did - that I wouldn't breed that mare myself, but if it is her decision to breed her at some point in the future, it would be rather uppity and selfish of me to not help her make the best possible breeding decision when it came to a choice of stallions. I would hope that most experienced breeders would do the same...


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## x Bustie and Alli x (Jan 15, 2011)

Alli came out of bustie who has gowd awful conformation- long back, poor feet, weak neck, steep shoulders and cow hocks. Alli is near perfect (slightly bias tho-sorry ) and doesn't show any of her mother's poor traits. Does have slightly outward toes- presumably from her sire. Her half brother out of the same mare was the same as Alli just bigger and admittedly he did have a slightly long back but it didn't stop him being a good horse. 
Find a good stallion and *fingers crossed* the foal may turn out fine.

Just one thing is that although Bustie gave birth to Alli and her brother fine with no human help she did lose her third foal as the cord was around its neck. It could have been saved if the owners had got there in time. Casualties happen with foaling. That time it was the foal but what if its your mare? Risks need to be weighed up seriously.
Your mare looks decent and I would say the first stallion was the better match


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

x Bustie and Alli x said:


> Alli came out of bustie who has gowd awful conformation- long back, poor feet, weak neck, steep shoulders and cow hocks. Alli is near perfect (slightly bias tho-sorry ) and doesn't show any of her mother's poor traits. Does have slightly outward toes- presumably from her sire. Her half brother out of the same mare was the same as Alli just bigger and admittedly he did have a slightly long back but it didn't stop him being a good horse.


Well the poor traits are still _there_, regardless of whether or not they appeared in one single foal or not. Further breeding could cause them to rear their head - it's called not breeding true.


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## rodeoqueen77 (Aug 4, 2011)

hes pretty and when you breed a solid to a paint you get a pretty good chance of getting a paint and for any other people who read this there is now a picture on his blood lines i added one


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