# new horse-abused and terrified



## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

I've started sharing a horse called Mika from a woman at my yard. Shes had her about a year I think and this is what she told me:
-she's 3
-she's unbroken
-she's hard to catch
-she was abused
-shes terrified of everything
-she has no trust in humans

I saw her in the field and I just felt some weird connection to her... I knew I had to have her! 

Ive had her since last Tuesday and since then we've made remarkable progress! Yesterday it took me 20 minutes to 'catch' her. She runs away when you get a certain distance so when I was at the edge of her comfort zone I wandered backwards and forwards, gradually getting nearer, singing as I did. Soon I just put my hand out onto her nose and she didn't even flinch
Question: if she plants her feet when I'm leading her in, how can I persaude her without force?

The first time I brought her in I tied her up and started by stepping towards her and away from her, getting nearer when she looked more relaxed and eventually her nose was on my tummy when I stepped forwards. Since then I've stroked her neck until she looks comfortable and then stroking her 3 times putting my hand down and doing it again, lessening the time between the strokes and hand down until I could put my hand up and down quickly. If she ever looks uncomfortable I go back to stepping.

I then led her around a bit ( we have a space between the 8 stables and the fence to their field) on the end of the leadrope, stopped when I stopped and walking and turning when I did. She did it lovely. She even backed up when I walked backwards!

The next few times I let her off her leadrope (it's completely safe) and allowed her to wander round while I sat down, she had a look at a few stuff and then followed me round like a lamb. Yesterday I did the same and for half an hour we walked stopped turned and even trotted without a leadrope. She did wander off to have a look a things sometimes but came straight back to me
Question: why was she following me like that?

Anyway, so then all the horses in the field where galloping around and her best friend came right up to the fence and she went up to the fence to say hi... then he started galloping on the other side of the fence and she started galloping on our side of the fence, crashed into a 1.3m fence, jumped over it, stumbled and galloped away... she's fine, her knee is slightly swollen though. 

So anyway, thats whats happened so far
Does anyone have any ideas of things I can do to gain her trust? Im 13 if anyone was going to ask. 
Anyone want to see her? She's a real beauty!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

First, *stop* thinking of her as abused. The only way you should be thinking of her is as an untrained youngster. She needs to be started as if she knows nothing, which is exactly what it sounds like.

She doesn't sound scared to me, she just appears to be acting like a regular, untrained young horse.

At 13 y/o, you need a trainer or at least a knowledgeable adult to help you with this horse. It's so very easy to mess up a youngster and then she really will be in danger of being abused or sent off to auction.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I would love to see a photo!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

If you describe this horse as terrified, WHY would you sit down near her? 

As with above, you need to get a trainer, or leave this horse alone till someone comes along.

This owner is taking YOU for a joy ride. She'll let you build up human contact with the creature, and then when the problems hit home, you'll be to blame.

There is no fairy tale story for catching and breaking youngsters. There is no black beauty moments. That is a 600kg flight animal. 

Be realistic, and think of your own well being.

The horse needs someone who can train it properly. 

Asking over the internet for advice on how to send a horse forward is a clear sign you should leave this horse to someone else.

In the long run, the horse is going to get your number, become increasingly dangerous around humans as she tries to get her own way and act like a spoiled brat. Through that, you will most likely end up injured. The horse may also end up injured. It will then cost more money to send the horse to someone to "fix" her.

An unhandled horse is dangerous. It has NO idea what you are going to ask of it, and can lash out because it is confused, or prefers that grass spot in it's field than working for you.

I'm being harsh because you need to see that this, on your own, is not a possibility. Even with a lesson once a week on groundwork would not be enough. This horse needs to have a month of handling from an experienced person.

PLEASE heed the advice given to you, and stand back from this mare.

The owner should have their ear twisted to even allow this to happen in the first place.


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## ZombieHorseChick (Jun 5, 2014)

I was actually younger then you when I was working on an abuse case ( no, it wasn't just an untrained horse,it was an actual abuse case, she was trained by my sister before hand and she was a great little mare,even I rode her; then events happened and her owner sold her to a horrible person, not knowing it of course) she was extremely head shy and flighty, terrified of men. But the thing was I had help, from my sister who over saw everything, and she was experienced; so I advise you, get some experienced help with this mare, before something goes very wrong! I know you probebly feel as if you can handle it, but please take the advice given to you by those of this forum.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

*Then YOU were very lucky.* Please do not pass on your experience as indicative of this young girl's situation. Both user adults and University Professors LOOOOOVVVVVVEEEEE dealing with young, idealistic people bc they have wants and loves and no experience. They are EASY to manipulate. I'm with Duffy.
I started teaching riding lessons at 27yo and I had NO DESIRE to put any of my teenage students in harm's way. Not every adult operates this way. It also reminds me of young adult men who love to court 17yo's. The 17yo girl has stars in her eyes and won't question him while he uses her. =/ Don't say you weren't thinking this, too. =/


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

What would you call an 'experienced handler'? Someone who has experience? How can I get that experience if your advice is to leave her to someone experienced? Her owner thought I was experienced enough for her, its her horse and her decision. She waa not angry when I rang her telling her she'd jumped over the fence but she did tell me to leave her tied up unless I'm in the arena. Of course I understand she's a big animal and could kill me, I saw her jump a 1.3m fence and I learnt my lesson- keep her tied up. I'm gaining experience every time I'm there which I wouldn't be able to get from the Internet. 

I did NOT come on here for people to tell me to stay away from my horse because I'm too inexperienced. You have NO IDEA on my experience. I came here for advice not because I don't know what I'm doing but for a few ideas. 

If your going to tell me that she's dangerous ect ect, don't bother. You don't know me or her and I'm 100% aware of how dangerous the situation is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Do as you wish. My first horse was rideable.


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## dernhelm1984 (Dec 19, 2013)

> I did NOT come on here for people to tell me to stay away from my horse because I'm too inexperienced. You have NO IDEA on my experience. I came here for advice not because I don't know what I'm doing but for a few ideas.


 No one is posting to be offensive. We are concerned about YOUR SAFETY and trying to tell you WHY. :shock:


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> I would love to see a photo!


Ahh a person who isn't interested in putting me down due to my age


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

Corporal said:


> Do as you wish. My first horse was rideable.


She's not my first. She's my theird...


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dommycob said:


> What would you call an 'experienced handler'? Someone who has experience? How can I get that experience if your advice is to leave her to someone experienced? Her owner thought I was experienced enough for her, its her horse and her decision. She waa not angry when I rang her telling her she'd jumped over the fence but she did tell me to leave her tied up unless I'm in the arena. Of course I understand she's a big animal and could kill me, I saw her jump a 1.3m fence and I learnt my lesson- keep her tied up. I'm gaining experience every time I'm there which I wouldn't be able to get from the Internet.
> 
> I did NOT come on here for people to tell me to stay away from my horse because I'm too inexperienced. You have NO IDEA on my experience. I came here for advice not because I don't know what I'm doing but for a few ideas.
> 
> ...


 
Your first post indicates you have *no *experience dealing with this kind of animal. Which means you aren't 100% aware of how sneaky, twisty and turny they can be.

The best way you can get experience is to shadow someone who deals with these kinds of horses on a daily basis, and makes a living out of it. Watch and learn, then get hands on.

I'll ask some simple questions:

When you have her off the lead rope, and she follows you, where is she?
Does she lift her feet? If not, how do you plan to get her to lift her feet?
If she has no respect for boundries (i.e the fence she crashed in to) how do you plan on fixing that?
Do you wear gloves and a hard hat when you deal with her?

And last but not least...

Do you have life insurance?

The reason so many people are telling you the same thing is because they are _worried_ for you.

We can gague your experience from your initial post which read "magical bond with scared pony, I'm going to ride through the fields bareback and the owner will give her to me because we have a magical bond".

It doesn't happen like that.

Its a BIG thing to train a horse. 

MASSIVE.

It's scary, it's time consuming, and it will be blood sweat and tears.

Do yourself a favour, and either get help when you are around this horse... every minute... to train YOU as well as the horse. This costs money, however. It'll be something you'll carry with you for life, but it costs.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dommycob said:


> Ahh a person who isn't interested in putting me down due to my age


 
Your age is regardless.

Your experience is what scares the bejeebus out of me. Or lack of.

You're completely missing what people are saying.

Your questions give us ALL the clues.

You could say you're 56, I'd still tell you to run the other direction. I'm just being politer because I don't want to pick on youngsters.


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## dernhelm1984 (Dec 19, 2013)

> Ahh a person who isn't interested in putting me down due to my age


 Ignoring your age, let's get down to the basics then. How long have you worked with or ridden horses? Have you had lessons with a trainer? How many? How long? Have you ever watch someone else work with an untrained horse? That's how you learn, you know; *watching* someone experienced and having the help of someone who has done it before, just like an any new hobby.

LISTEN to DaffyDuck. She knows what she is saying.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

dernhelm1984 said:


> No one is posting to be offensive. We are concerned about YOUR SAFETY and trying to tell you WHY. :shock:


She's a scared horse and I am an experienced rider/handler despite my age. I understand the dangers and I take sensible precautions. I wasn't sat near her, she was about ten metres away and if something scared her she probably wouldn't run over to me to kick me? 
I do find it quite offensive when people presume that too inexperienced because of my age. I will say now that I AM EXPERIENCED and I'm flattered that my safety is such a big concern but it shouldn't be.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You're asking BASIC questions about how to handle an untrained youngster. I'd have the same advice for anyone asking those kinds of questions, regardless of their age. The fact that you're just a child merely makes it more dangerous for both you _and_ the horse.

I can tell a great deal from the questions people ask, and if all you wanted was free internet training then you need to go somewhere where they'll tell you what you _want_ to hear, not what you SHOULD hear.


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## dernhelm1984 (Dec 19, 2013)

> I am an experienced rider/handler despite my age.


 AGE does not MATTER here. We are NOT trying to "pick on you" due to your age. Like Duffy said, even if you were in your 40s or older, I'd be telling you this is a bad idea. You didn't answer any of my questions about your horse riding experience btw.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dommycob said:


> She's a scared horse and I am an experienced rider/handler despite my age. I understand the dangers and I take sensible precautions. I wasn't sat near her, she was about ten metres away and if something scared her she probably wouldn't run over to me to kick me?
> I do find it quite offensive when people presume that too inexperienced because of my age. I will say now that I AM EXPERIENCED and I'm flattered that my safety is such a big concern but it shouldn't be.


 
The horse that I fell in front of didn't mean to kick my shoulder out of it's socket and put me in hospital for two weeks, either.

10m is nothing. A horse can spook and bolt faster than you can get to your feet. They don't look down, they look ahead. She wouldn't even see you.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Horse isn't abused or terrified, she is an unhandled, untrained horse. People always try to use the term abused or terrified as a way to get sympathy, instead of saying horse the truth: horse is untrained and not handled, therefore has no respect for people. The reason the owner said it was okay for you to handle this horse and "train" it is because she probably is scared of it and doesn't want a thing to do with it, so by letting a 13 year old try to train it, she isn't going to care. If you do get something done, so much better for her. If not, she will just try again with someone else. The owner needs to face reality and hire an EXPERIENCED trainer to work with this horse, then maybe, maybe let you take over. Experienced means years and years of training horses from all ages, someone who knows why a horse does what it does and be aware of the "get out of danger" spot needed when training. Not sitting in a corral with an unbroken horse.
Face reality not fairy tales. You have no business with this horse, you will be injured.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dernhelm1984 said:


> LISTEN to DaffyDuck. She knows what she is saying.


That's because I was once the invincible teen and have broken pretty much everything in my body.

I have been picked up by a stallion and shaken. I have been dumped on my backside, and thrown on concrete.

If I'd have listened, I'd have saved myself a lot of pain and misery.

Then I stood back and _listened _and stopped letting owners take advantage of me by asking me to ride their crazy horses, and I learned things that make me able to help (not even on my own!) train and rehab horses from he ground up.


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## dernhelm1984 (Dec 19, 2013)

(Oops, sorry, Duffy! I saw your name and immediately thought "Daffy Duck!") :lol:


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dernhelm1984 said:


> (Oops, sorry, Duffy! I saw your name and immediately thought "Daffy Duck!") :lol:


 
It's alright dernhelm, everyone does ;D


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

Okay, I began riding when I was 6 with weekly group lessons for a year before doing a private lesson every fortnight and a group lesson in riding and stable management every week where I passed my level 6 BHS stable management and riding when I was nine. When I was ten I worked at my riding school which involved looking after 40 horses between 6 of us, getting them ready for lessons and then leading. I was still taking weekly lessons.

When I was 11 I got my first loan pony. She was a novice and an experienced ride. She was a plod in the school, backing up, bucking and completely refusing to move forward. On grass she acted like an arab. After a year, I could keep her under control on the grass and I got 6th in a dressage test, I also taught her walk to canter. On the side of her, I was training another horse called red to be ridden. He had never been ridden off a lead rein before. I taught him w/t/c and did a bit of groundwork with him too. 
In March I was asked to bring on a 4 year old (I still am) I was told she was an a horrible ride, you could hardly get a trot out of her, she nap towards the gate and NO ONE could stop her, and she'd buck in canter. Now, she'll walk and trot to a click, canter with a touch and doesn't nap at all. We even came second in ridden showing. I've done a lot of groundwork with her, she was very pushy but she's very respectful now. 
Every now and again I take lessons and people at my yard give me any help I need. 
If it makes any difference, I spend a lot of my time watching monty Roberts break in youngsters and read magazines ect. 

And yes, the owner is breaking her in, I'm helping.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

You absolutely need a trainer to help you, ASAP. There is no shame in asking for help. By the sounds of it your quickly going to have an untrained, scared and spoiled horse on your hands. UNTRAINING is a lot harder then doing it right the first time! Also, love alone is not enough to fix her. You need to learn how to properly ask and correct her. A trainer isn't there to 100% take over, they are there to show you how to do it properly. I've been working with horse for over 10 years, which is nothing, and I still take riding lessons although I don't need to. I just recently found a trainer who I think does superior ground work. I REALLY want to take some lessons with him because I like his style. Horseback riding is a LIFELONG adventure!! Heck, even my reining trainer takes lessons for people better then her! ... and she has been riding and training for literally her entire life. 

Another bite to chew over, is that these people who are replying are taking time out of their day, out of their lives, to answer your questions FOR FREE. These people don't have to answer, nor do they have any connection to you. It's not going to be their broken neck, their wallet, their messed up horse..... The responsibility is all YOU. In the end YOU are your own worst enemy here. YOU have everything to lose. Just because it's not advice you want to hear doesn't mean it isn't good advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dommycob said:


> Okay, I began riding when I was 6 with weekly group lessons for a year before doing a private lesson every fortnight and a group lesson in riding and stable management every week where I passed my level 6 BHS stable management and riding when I was nine. When I was ten I worked at my riding school which involved looking after 40 horses between 6 of us, getting them ready for lessons and then leading. I was still taking weekly lessons.
> 
> When I was 11 I got my first loan pony. She was a novice and an experienced ride. She was a plod in the school, backing up, bucking and completely refusing to move forward. On grass she acted like an arab. After a year, I could keep her under control on the grass and I got 6th in a dressage test, I also taught her walk to canter. On the side of her, I was training another horse called red to be ridden. He had never been ridden off a lead rein before. I taught him w/t/c and did a bit of groundwork with him too.
> In March I was asked to bring on a 4 year old (I still am) I was told she was an a horrible ride, you could hardly get a trot out of her, she nap towards the gate and NO ONE could stop her, and she'd buck in canter. Now, she'll walk and trot to a click, canter with a touch and doesn't nap at all. We even came second in ridden showing. I've done a lot of groundwork with her, she was very pushy but she's very respectful now.
> ...


 
Again, this post doesn't convince me one shred.

I didn't realise BHS had a stage 6.

Watching online is NOTHING compared to that split second reaction and action you have to take. You can't teach that online, you have to watch it.

Working with an unhandled horse is not the same as working with a naughty pony.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

DuffyDuck said:


> Your first post indicates you have *no *experience dealing with this kind of animal. Which means you aren't 100% aware of how sneaky, twisty and turny they can be.
> 
> The best way you can get experience is to shadow someone who deals with these kinds of horses on a daily basis, and makes a living out of it. Watch and learn, then get hands on.
> 
> ...


She's actually quite respectful which I'm suprised at. She stays about a metre away unless I come close to her.

I don't remember saying that we're going to have a magical bond and ride through fields bareback. ..

I have riders insurance/ public liability
Not sure about life insurance


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dommycob said:


> She's actually quite respectful which I'm suprised at. She stays about a metre away unless I come close to her.
> 
> I don't remember saying that we're going to have a magical bond and ride through fields bareback. ..
> 
> ...


 
A metre.

To the side, behind, in front?

The horse should be at your side. 

In front is the horse doing it's own thing.

Behind gives the horse the opportunity to "break" and bolt and wipe you out.

How is she respectful? Describe what she does that makes her so.

And, if you don't.. I'd get life insurance.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

I wear my hat when I'm with her
Yes she does pick up her feet
I don't know how to stop her jumping over fences, her owner will help me with that one


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

DuffyDuck said:


> A metre.
> 
> To the side, behind, in front?
> 
> ...


She stands kind of diagonal but more to the side than behind

She is respectful to my space, she doesn't necessarily walk into me, barge me or come into my space at all.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dommycob said:


> She stands kind of diagonal but more to the side than behind
> 
> She is respectful to my space, she doesn't necessarily walk into me, barge me or come into my space at all.
> 
> I'm listening right now. I'm not going to listen to the ones that tell me I have no business with her


 
As far as I am aware, people have told you that you need HELP.

The fact you have no help apart from the owner (who would answer the questions you asked if she had any idea, and should be supervising you around an unhandled horse... which means you would not have sat down in the field) means that at this current time you DON'T have any business around this horse.

You do not have the skill set to take on such an animal on your own. People are concerned about your safety, they aren't trying to stomp on your parade.

Get a trainer, get someone like Cherie to help you and look at the training thread and search for things that will help you. NONE of what is on the internet will beat having someone train you to train the horse.

Do not put yourself in a position where you end up ruining the horse through inexperience. 

Do not put yourself in a position where you can be endangered.

Because she follows you around, it doesn't mean she has respect for you. You're new, she's curious. THAT is why she follows you around the place.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> That's because I was once the invincible teen and have broken pretty much everything in my body.


 yep. We should start a club. I rode anything anyone would put me on. I broke a bone in my leg, two in my feet, two ribs, cracked tail bone, wrist, collar bone, major tendon damage in my ankle, twice, something like 4 concussions and 6 cases of whiplash(lost track of the exact number) and that's not even getting into the accidents that caused soft tissue damage, back issues, etc.

I'm a pretty decent rider, and I can handle a green, naughty, spooky horse better than most, but I paid a heavy price. I WISH someone would have been there to say no, put me in lessons and teach me the right way. I will spend the rest of my life paying for my recklessness when young.

People will judge you for your age. It DOES matter. look at it realistically. most children don't have good enough motor function to ride solo till between 5-7. IF you have been riding weekly with an experienced trainer since then, which is not extremely likely, you have at the very most 8 years experience. 

I am a lot older than you. I have worked with some great horse people and ridden thousands of miles on dozens of horses of all ages types and genders, several of which I started from the ground up myself, several were confirmed abuse or neglect cases, many were problem horses that needed retraining or ottbs fresh off the track. I've jumped, chased cows, done some dressage, ridden some extreme mountain trails.

To give you some perspective; I WOULD NOT CONSIDER MYSELF EXPERIENCED. Especially looking at some of the people on this site. Comparing myself to them I look about as experienced as a beginner sitting in the saddle for the first time.

So back to the original post, a horse doesn't need someone to approach and retreat a million times, zig zag back and forth in the field while singing, wander around trying to get it to follow. It needs set guidelines, rules it knows how to follow, and to be taught respect and trust. If a trainer isn't an option and your determined, order Clinton Andersons book and follow every step. Don't coddle the mare, stop doing "liberty" work. Give her a fair job and don't treat her like a pet.

We have a 13 year old that volunteers at the barn. She is in love with a very sweet tempered yearling. She is only allowed to handle her under experienced supervision.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

So, what is OP is your training plan? What kind of riding are you going to do? You seem to have a very idealistic perspective on this horse. If I was the owner I would not let you near my horse, mostly because it was injured in your care. Jumping a fence and a swollen knee is a huge concern for me. I would be so ashamed and embarrassed if I injured someone else's horse by doing something as foolish as what you were doing. All I see when you say the horse jumped a fence and ended up with a swollen knee is a chip fracture. 

That said, it is not my business and its not my neck. Free piece of advice, anyone willing to do free horse training/riding is probably not worth paying and the person doing the "hiring" is too cheap or stupid to realize it.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

rookie said:


> So, what is OP is your training plan? What kind of riding are you going to do? You seem to have a very idealistic perspective on this horse. If I was the owner I would not let you near my horse, mostly because it was injured in your care. Jumping a fence and a swollen knee is a huge concern for me. I would be so ashamed and embarrassed if I injured someone else's horse by doing something as foolish as what you were doing. All I see when you say the horse jumped a fence and ended up with a swollen knee is a chip fracture.
> 
> That said, it is not my business and its not my neck. Free piece of advice, anyone willing to do free horse training/riding is probably not worth paying and the person doing the "hiring" is too cheap or stupid to realize it.


 
rookie, to be fair the injury caused to the horse was not, as far as I understand, the fault of the OP. The horse saw another horse and tried to get in to that field.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

yeah, but if I owned a horse and found out that the handler had put the horse in that situation I would be upset. As I read it the horse was loose at the time. Which is sort of asking for trouble in my book and a novice move. It is one thing if the horse tore the lead out of her hands and jumped the fence. This sounds like the horse was loose and she was doffing around with it near the fence line. At which point the horse went over the fence and hurt itself. If it tore the lead out of her hands than I am sorry for mis-understanding.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

rookie said:


> So, what is OP is your training plan? What kind of riding are you going to do? You seem to have a very idealistic perspective on this horse. If I was the owner I would not let you near my horse, mostly because it was injured in your care. Jumping a fence and a swollen knee is a huge concern for me. I would be so ashamed and embarrassed if I injured someone else's horse by doing something as foolish as what you were doing. All I see when you say the horse jumped a fence and ended up with a swollen knee is a chip fracture.
> 
> That said, it is not my business and its not my neck. Free piece of advice, anyone willing to do free horse training/riding is probably not worth paying and the person doing the "hiring" is too cheap or stupid to realize it.



This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
Your not.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

rookie said:


> yeah, but if I owned a horse and found out that the handler had put the horse in that situation I would be upset. As I read it the horse was loose at the time. Which is sort of asking for trouble in my book and a novice move. It is one thing if the horse tore the lead out of her hands and jumped the fence. This sounds like the horse was loose and she was doffing around with it near the fence line. At which point the horse went over the fence and hurt itself. If it tore the lead out of her hands than I am sorry for mis-understanding.


The place where she was loose is a place where a horse with laminitis is put. It is an actual turnout place where they can be left unsupervised. She is sometimes left in there anyway. It was an accident


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

So how will you keep the horse still for things like saddling, farrier work, veterinary work. What if what the horse wishes to do is dangerous to them? My horses are not allowed to do whatever they wish when I am working with them. They have the other 22 hours out of the day to do as they wish.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom


 um, yes, that is what you are meant to do. I cant quite believe you actually said that? maybe its a joke? You don't have the right to keep a horse from hurting itself?

If its not, than following that line of thought there is only one conclusion. You catching her in the first place was wrong. Who are you to keep her from her pasture? Who are you to lead her where she would rather not be, and how dare you even dream of strapping that cruel contraption, a saddle, to her back, and riding her in such an unnatural way?


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

BlueSpark said:


> um, yes, that is what you are meant to do. I cant quite believe you actually said that? maybe its a joke? You don't have the right to keep a horse from hurting itself?
> 
> If its not, than following that line of thought there is only one conclusion. You catching her in the first place was wrong. Who are you to keep her from her pasture? Who are you to lead her where she would rather not be, and how dare you even dream of strapping that cruel contraption, a saddle, to her back, and riding her in such an unnatural way?


Just because she's an animal does not mean she is not as important. Treat your horses as friends not as slaves


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

So how will you correct its behavior? how will you train it? You don't have to be mean but there are rules in life. At the end of the day, my life is more important than my horses.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Just because she's an animal does not mean she is not as important. Treat your horses as friends not as slaves


 First off. I have happy, soft, willing, well behaved horses. My 'treating them like slaves' has allowed them to have boundaries so they know where they stand with me, and we have developed a bond of trust and respect. Ever really looked at a horse that has received love but no discipline? They are not happy, respectful or willing, and most often they are dangerous to their human handlers.

Your wanting a 1200lb animal to be "your friend" is very concerning, and I'm afraid shows a very grim outlook for your future well being and the horses.

And secondly, if your friend was about to hurt themselves, would you try to stop them, or simply say "I have no right to interfere, go ahead and injure yourself while I watch? Additionally a horse is probably more comparable mentally to a child. Would you sit there and watch a child injure itself, perhaps seriously, without doing anything to try to prevent it?


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

We ALL want a partnership with our horses. We want mutual respect.

We don't want a fuzzy thing to cuddle and be our friend. They do not understand the concept of being a friend.

This horse is 500-600kg. You're probably under 65kg. See the big difference there? It hurts when they use that against you.

You have to, in their view, take the form of herd leader. You play the under dog, and you're going to get hurt.

You don't have to beat your horse.

You don't have to be cruel.

You have to remember that the lead member in a herd will kick with both hind legs and bite chunks out of a horse that will not behave.

Please get it out of your mind that anyone on this forum believes that horse's are slaves.

This is a creature with it's own mind, if it doesn't want to do something, it won't.

The horse has to be trained to respect the human. Even the halter Monty Roberts uses inflicts discomfort on the horse using pressure and release to get the horse to respond to what he wants it to do.

You can't expect the horse to know ANYTHING. You have to teach (I say you as in a wider you, not you as a single person) the horse how to do everything.

And when the horse has the concept, and refuses, you make it difficult. You can use pressure and release, you can make the horse move it's feet so you're in charge of it's movement, you can catch his side with a lead rope or crop. 

But do not think that horse's have human sentiments. They don't.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

I have rules and boundaries. I just don't believe that we should neglect a horse of his freedom for 'fun'


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

dommycob said:


> I have rules and boundaries. I just don't believe that we should neglect a horse of his freedom for 'fun'


 
Then stick it in a field and leave it alone.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

BlueSpark said:


> First off. I have happy, soft, willing, well behaved horses. My 'treating them like slaves' has allowed them to have boundaries so they know where they stand with me, and we have developed a bond of trust and respect. Ever really looked at a horse that has received love but no discipline? They are not happy, respectful or willing, and most often they are dangerous to their human handlers.
> 
> Your wanting a 1200lb animal to be "your friend" is very concerning, and I'm afraid shows a very grim outlook for your future well being and the horses.
> 
> And secondly, if your friend was about to hurt themselves, would you try to stop them, or simply say "I have no right to interfere, go ahead and injure yourself while I watch? Additionally a horse is probably more comparable mentally to a child. Would you sit there and watch a child injure itself, perhaps seriously, without doing anything to try to prevent it?


She was galloping towards a fence. What do you want me to do? Sacrifice myself and throw myself into her path?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

DuffyDuck said:


> We ALL want a partnership with our horses. We want mutual respect.
> 
> We don't want a fuzzy thing to cuddle and be our friend. They do not understand the concept of being a friend.
> 
> ...


I've always thought this way about horses. I've never been kicked or bitten because I teach my horses to be respectful to me and in return they want to do as I ask. If they come into my space I get them to move their feet out of my space. If they do wrong I correct them. This has worked for me so far
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

My oh my. 

Alright, pasture jumping incident aside, OP you have been given some great advice to your original questions about training with this mare- you have chosen not to heed that advice and trying to further explain your situation is not going to make others on this forum change their ultimate answer: you need help from a more experienced trainer than yourself. Someone that can show you how to handle this mare in action in the moment. 

Your own opinions and beliefs on horses needs is your own thing. As most of us already know, we humans usually have to learn things the hard way. The most we can say over the Internet has been said, take it or leave it.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

No, horses aren't slaves, BUT... 

You pay for their medical expenses. 
You pay for their food. 
You put shoes on them. 
You make sure their tack is comfortable. 
You pay for supplements. 

It's really isn't a lot to ask that they behave while we work around them. I think that is MORE then fair. Expecting good behavior and riding time isn't treating your horse like a slave. The way your thinking right now YOU are the slave to your horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dernhelm1984 (Dec 19, 2013)

> This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
> A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
> Your not.


 Oh, boy. OP, all I can hope is that you don't really get injured badly by this horse. I don't have much more to say here other than you are putting yourself in a dangerous situation... but I guess that's your choice. Remember that.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think some members need to cool down and take a step back
There is nothing wrong with giving fairly blunt advice out of concern for someone's welfare but I'm not seeing a lot of caring mixed in with it.
The horse may well have been abused - not our place to question that because we don't know its history - the OP knows I assume from the owner
She is working with the owner and the risks posed to the horse are hers to take and so is any decision to get a trainer involved - that is not something this OP can do because it's not her horse
I do have concerns for the OP's safety but lecturing her is not going to help - from my own experiences as a child doing risky things around horses it usually as the opposite effect
There is a Level 6 Stable Management test - there are 10 Levels plus a separate Lunge Unit in the Stable Management section
I'm going to close the thread now so we can review it


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

dommycob said:


> I've started sharing a horse called Mika f*rom a woman at my yard. Shes had her about a year I think and this is what she told me:
> -she's 3
> -she's unbroken
> -she's hard to catch
> ...


my comments in red.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

some posts have been removed and or editted . 

please keep in mind this forum is not a courtroom. we are here to give support, feedback, advice and companionship in our shared passion; horses. the other member can choose to accept it or not, and we'll have to live with that, and do it gracefully. We are not here to pin another member down and either forcefeed them advice or grill them relentlessly on their experience level.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

OP-sorry, but your lack of experience almost hit me in the head hen you said the first thing you did was tie this horse. Probably NOT the best thing to do with a horse you have been told is scared. All you need is the horse to struggle and get hurt, or get even worse.

Please get some help from someone with more experience than you.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Please will members note that this is not the OP's horse, it is not her place to get someone to help her with it - that is for the owner to do
The OP has several choices - 
To walk away from the horse altogether
To tell to the owner that it needs a more experienced person to work with it if the owner can't do it herself
That she (the OP) will only work with it when the owner is there to supervise or some other experienced adult
If she takes the latter option it would be nice if she had some good useful ideas from HF members that she could suggest they try


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

These are the details of the Association of British Riding Schools Stable Management tests that the OP mentioned in an earlier post. They're run under the approval of the BHS by BHS approved riding schools. It is a download but perfectly safe in case anyone is concerned.
http://www.abrs-info.org/site-docs/Stable_Management_1_to_10_Syllabi.pdf


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## SirComet (Feb 21, 2014)

BlueSpark said:


> Ever really looked at a horse that has received love but no discipline? They are not happy, respectful or willing, and most often they are dangerous to their human handlers.


My oh my, can I attest to this. The horse I own now is 1400 pounds of gentle, but he was far from it until some boundaries were set. His original owner spoiled him rotten, never made him do anything, let him be mouthy and pushy, gave him treats all the time. She saw his size, though, and was terrified to do anything about it. So he shows up at my barn. The first time he went to get trimmed by the farrier, he decided he didn't feel like cooperating, and dragged the BO across the yard. The BO called his owner, told her to sell him (which she agreed to, reluctantly...), and he got an attitude adjustment. He's been mine for 6 years. While there was plenty of training that I could do, the initial stages were left to the BO. I was a 12 year old with more horse experience than most my age, but it was still something I needed to observe rather than do myself.
The sad thing is, to this day, you still have to be firm with him. The first 5 years of his life were spent with love and no discipline. That's impacted his entire life. 
(The old owner has recently called and said, "If you ever want to sell him, I'd love to buy him back!" I brought this up laughingly with the BO. She bluntly put it: that horse would be better off put down then back with that owner.)

There's a lady at the barn who takes the same approach...tries very hard not to push them, but tries to have them be palsy-walsies. One of these horses double barreled her in the leg, and she needed an ambulance and surgery.

In summary, love and no discipline makes life miserable for both horse and rider. Horses are like children. You may think you are being a wonderful person by letting them do what they want, but in reality, they are happier with strict limits.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

well said!


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

dommycob said:


> This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
> A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
> Your not.


And now Stitch is going to grow wings, and I'll ride him bareback into the sunset, in a dress made of flowers all the way to Happy Pony Land cause we have such a wonderful bond, and who am I to keep him away from the rolling green pastures of Happy Pony Land, because even though he's my horse and I work my butt off to pay for him, but he's actually "not mine to have" and I have no business getting in the way of his freedom.
, You need to get a trainer. I have a little sister your age, and I'd never let her get into this. YOU ARE GOING TO GET HURT.

You don't have experience, you're 13. You don't have experience with anything! You weren't training horses to ride when you were 10. Training horses and riding naughty school ponies are completely different things. 

You are asking questions about simple basics of handling a greenie, and that shows me that you don't know what to do. Also, leaving her un attended to jump that fence was just stupid. I mean come on? If that was my horse i'd be furious. it's common sense, horses are animals that would find a way to hurt themselves in a padded stall. TIE THE HORSE UP. You're not taking away it's freedom, you're keeping it safe.

Horses way of love is respect, this horse could care less. No respect= no love. They look for leadership. A horse forced into being a leader, is an unhappy horse. 

I like to believe that my horse Stitch loves me, and that we have a good bond, cause I think we do. But he knows that i'm the boss, and he doesn't cross me. 

My point is you need help. You may think you can do this, but you're putting yourself, and your beloved horse in a dangerous situation. How would you feel if this horse got seriously injured because of your negligence? Horrible. It would be your fault too. You would have failed this horse. 

get some help. and you may end up with a lovely riding horse on your hands. go at it alone, you've got a ticking time bomb.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

Okay, that came off really harsh, and It wasn't my intention. 
You seem like an awesome kid. I'd just hate to hear of anything bad happening.


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## Marcie (Jul 25, 2013)

I know you asked this earlier and I haven't read through everything but I just want to answer your question. You asked how do you get experience if everyone is telling you not to do this? 

You get experience by working with an experienced person. Training a horse isn't really like riding a bike where you go by feel since even if it does feel right it might not be.. It's more like.. Being a teacher. There's a reason why teachers go to school to get degrees for teaching. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than what you see when you're in the students perspective looking at the teacher. That teacher has to know everything about the subject they are teaching, every specific minute detail, (everything! because if they are wrong the student will be wrong too), and not only that but they have to know _how_ to teach it and what to do if a student is having trouble, acts up, ect. 

Teachers learn from other teachers. And that is exactly what you should look into doing. (Before you teach anything or anyone yourself.) If you really want to be a horse trainer then you should look in your area to see who the trainers are. Then you have some options you can: find out if they are looking for help, if you could sit in with them while they are training, if you could stop by and talk to them and you can ask what they would suggest to get your foot in the door. You can also call stables that give lessons and see about working or helping out there, make connections and see if the coach will let you sit in while giving lessons or training horses.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

dommycob said:


> This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
> A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
> Your not.


This comment is incredibly scary and ignorant and shows one of the main reasons you should not be dealing with this horse in any way. 

You have obviously grown up believing the fairy tales from Walt Disney and My Pretty Pony and have no concept as to how much danger you are in. I can hardly believe your parents are allowing this although they probably are even more ignorant about the situation. It's obvious that this horse's owner doesn't know what she's doing and so now you have "help" from someone who doesn't have a clue. When you get hurt badly enough, your parents can sue her and she will lose everything she owns.


It's pretty predictable what is going to happen here. This horse will become even more ruined by further incompetent "training" and will eventually be sent to the kill pens at the slaughter yards.
Of course as usual, it will be chalked up to being the horse's fault. I've seen it hundreds
of times.

If you truly love this horse. walk away and tell the owner to get a real
trainer to save this horse's future.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You are not an experienced rider or handler. You might think you are but in all reality you are not by your age and what little you have done, although this maybe a little more than some.

At your age I was representing the PC in Horse Trials and Show Jumping, not because my parents were wealthy, I never had my own pony nor leased one, I did it over several years on riding school ponies and, got to the championships more than once. 

I had probably ridden over 100 ponies and horses, many of them problematic, destined for the knackers. 

I have been a professional with horses for fifty years and have yet to meet an 'experienced' thirteen year old.

I will tell you why you are inexperienced.

Firstly you would not have tied a horse that is nervous up. 
Secondly you would not have let her loose, you say it was safe but it wasn't because she jumped out damaging her knee. 
Thirdly because any experienced person knows that still have a lot to learn and will listen to older, wiser and more experienced people. 

You ask how you can gain experience if you are not hands on. That is a fair question, my answer is that you watch, ask questions and have an experienced person present to advise when you are handling a nervous unhandled horse.

Experience and wisdom come with age and learning the correct way to do things.

One thing I have learned is that regardless of what has happened to a horse prior, you forget it and get on with the job. They live in the moment.

Many horses regardless of breed are of a nervy disposition. It is just their make up. I had one family line that the foals were all wary of people or anything new. If you approached them or tried to handle them they would be 'on guard' and it would be easy for someone to conclude that had been abused but they never had. I could do anything with them, so could anyone else once they had proved to the horse they were trustworthy.

People on here think of it as a community, they get concerned when the potential for an accident to ether the horse or handler is stated. Their replies show this and if you respond in a "I know it all" way then they will get more forceful.

At thirteen you might be experienced for your age but, you are inexperienced in the horse world because of your age.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

dommycob said:


> This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
> A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
> Your not.


Oh good grief. THIS above all else tells us you do not have a clue as to what you should be doing with any horse.



We do not have to know you or the horse. We know horses, or most of us on here do. So we can tell usually within one sentence if the poster has any business with a young horse, or horse period.

And might point out that you need to be concentrating on your use of your when the context calls for you're. Quick hint here, if you can use the two words "you are" in the sentence, then the contraction you're is correct. If you cannot use "you are" then your is the spelling you want, as you wouldn't say "I am going to borrow you are bike". Your is possessive.

Back to OP. 

This is not an abused horse. This is a young horse that you have no business fooling with. And owner is a moron for allowing it.

Would also doubt at your age that you have been essentially training anything, much less with success. Kids that grow up with parents who train, or in our country, that grow up on working ranches, have a good skillset to fall back on, but without that?

No.

And save the attitude. You are getting good advice from people who know horses, and know the foolishness of what you are doing, and just how badly it can end up.

And this? Your last sentence in above quote?

"A foolish thing to do is think that your [sic] in control of the horse.
Your [sic] not."


And you want us to believe you know what you are doing?


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## ZombieHorseChick (Jun 5, 2014)

SirComet said:


> While there was plenty of training that I could do, the initial stages were left to the BO. I was a 12 year old with more horse experience than most my age, but it was still something I needed to observe rather than do myself.


Exatally!! For me( I was twelve also) the horse I was working with was just spooky, not aggressive in the slightet, she was terrified, I didn't mean to come off as if I was taking on a crazy, wild horse, and my sister( who trained for a living for a pierod of time) just sat back and watched me get my face kicked in :3 That is not what I was saying in the slightest; She helped me, over saw everything I did, which was a lot of trust gaining and desensitizing with the mare I had, but my point is, no matter how old you are or how much 'experience' you have, those here on the forum are offering advice, to try and offset a foreseeable train wreck. 
Good luck, hope you take advice given to you, and if not, really hope that nothing goes wrong.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I read through the link provided. I don't feel even if you had passed level 10 that you are experienced to handle this situation. From what you have provided as your experience with horses I think the owner is taking advantage and not overly concerned about either you are the horse just from the way you are presenting information. That said I've known and do use a younger person that when I started paying for his services was your age for backing and training. There is a world of difference in the way he was brought up and the experience you claim. His father is a horse trader and he was expected from a very young age to be able to handle a variety of horses, horse temperaments and situations. With appropriate supervision and training he was expected to take any horse put in his care and achieve the goals set for that horse - from basic training and groundwork to starting a horse or correcting problems. He isn't the first child that I have know raised this way but your experience is not his. I would still never have allowed him to work my animals or start them without knowing his background, having references, seeing him both ride and handle horses, his father's permission and my supervision.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

From everything I read in the first post I saw no hint of this horse being dangerous - just nervous and the initial progress sounded positive
Yes she made a mistake in letting the horse loose in what was probably a contained area when it decided to jump back in with the other horses - but that could happen to anyone regardless of their experience who looses a horse in a round pen for the first time
Unless its passport allows it to go for slaughter its not going to end up there. 
Is it really so hard to be polite when offering advice to young people? It's no point us complaining about teenagers with bad attitudes when adults can't set a good example. 
There is being honest to be helpful and there is being rude. There is a difference.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

The kid comes here: polite, respectful, articulate, with decent horse experiences for her age, asking thoughtful questions because she *wants to learn* and is reaching out to a variety of resources. 

She deserves nothing but a gentle warning to be careful and have her questions answered. Nothing but kindness, and maybe a little bit more consideration and patience than one would give another adult. 

Even if you are in a crappy mood, resist the temptation to gang up on a kid. Seriously.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

jaydee said:


> From everything I read in the first post I saw no hint of this horse being dangerous - just nervous and the initial progress sounded positive
> Yes she made a mistake in letting the horse loose in what was probably a contained area when it decided to jump back in with the other horses - but that could happen to anyone regardless of their experience who looses a horse in a round pen for the first time
> Unless its passport allows it to go for slaughter its not going to end up there.
> Is it really so hard to be polite when offering advice to young people? It's no point us complaining about teenagers with bad attitudes when adults can't set a good example.
> There is being honest to be helpful and there is being rude. There is a difference.


Thankyouu... 

Seeing as though someone sounds as though somebody is actually interested and understands the situation I'll tell you, and anyone else who cares, what happened today..

So I caught her in the field using my technique and surprise surprise I caught her no problem, led her in, tied her up and began stroking her. I groomed her for the first time and guess what? She was fine with it. I felt down her legs and oh god forbid it... she was fine.

She's scared of leadropes because she was beaten with them. Actual physical ABUSE which we know actually happened. I did the same as I did with stroking her. And oh lord don't tell me. She let me throw it gently over her neck without reacting.

Oh yeah and then I got her used the stable rubber opened up on her back and GUESS WHAT? she was fine with it.

The whole time neither of us did anything dangerous and it looks like my approach to horses works better than you all expected. I don't care if you don't agree with me, I know other methods but I went for this one and it works for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

horselessmom said:


> The kid comes here: polite, respectful, articulate, with decent horse experiences for her age, asking thoughtful questions because she *wants to learn* and is reaching out to a variety of resources.
> 
> She deserves nothing but a gentle warning to be careful and have her questions answered. Nothing but kindness, and maybe a little bit more consideration and patience than one would give another adult.
> 
> Even if you are in a crappy mood, resist the temptation to gang up on a kid. Seriously.


Thank you! People on here can be so rude -.-
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Yes she made a mistake in letting the horse loose in what was probably a contained area when it decided to jump back in with the other horses - but that could happen to anyone regardless of their experience who looses a horse in a round pen for the first time


 I'm not able to speak for others, but I had a problem, not with a simple mistake(all of us make those) but with the OP's response, which came across as showing a very unrealistic and potentially dangerous 'Disney' sort of view point.



> She deserves nothing but a gentle warning to be careful and have her questions answered. Nothing but kindness, and maybe a little bit more consideration and patience than one would give another adult.


 to me, this situation comes across as dangerous to the op and the horse. I'm not sure why the only appropriate response is a "gentle warning". It would suck if a 13 year old got seriously injured. That happened here a few years back. kid with Disney stories in her head, grew up riding, figured she could start a horse because she'd been riding since she was a toddler. She was thrown. they airlifted her to the nearest large hospital, but she died in transit.

So when a 13 year old starts talking about getting themselves in a potentially dangerous situation, I say something.


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

BlueSpark said:


> I'm not able to speak for others, but I had a problem, not with a simple mistake(all of us make those) but with the OP's response, which came across as showing a very unrealistic and potentially dangerous 'Disney' sort of view point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My 'disney' view is my way of seeing a horse, I don't agree with the way SOME people treat their horses, like they owe them something and I don't agree with this. This is my OPINION and imo I don't think its patronised because of it. It is not yours to comment on.


If your going to bite my head off, don't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

dommycob said:


> This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
> A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
> Your not.


That is literally one of the funniest things I have read on this forum. This whole thread has been a riot, I must say. 

Girl, I broke my first yearlings to lead when I was 12. I was under STRICT supervision of my parents and TAUGHT. You need a trainer to teach YOU. You will get no help here, because like most girls your age, you. Will. Not. Listen. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dommycob (Dec 16, 2012)

LadyDreamer said:


> That is literally one of the funniest things I have read on this forum. This whole thread has been a riot, I must say.
> 
> Girl, I broke my first yearlings to lead when I was 12. I was under STRICT supervision of my parents and TAUGHT. You need a trainer to teach YOU. You will get no help here, because like most girls your age, you. Will. Not. Listen.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The only 'help' I've received so far are rude people assuming things and ranting on at me.

How about some useful advice about handling the horse since you've done it before? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## libertylover (Jun 12, 2014)

Why is every one so rude? I am 15. I was doing this exact thing with my horse before I personally broke her in at 12, yes I was under supervision but my parents had no clue about horses so I had no help from them. I was using the liberty technique with Chance and not we are inseperable, we go on walks without head collars, ride tackless- 100% liberty, he is not pushy or dominant. We have a mutual respect for each other. There is no need to force your horse to do something if they really don't want to. E.g Mika clearly was more nervius in the stable that was probably why Dommycob didn't want to keep her in the stable. If she's can't tie her horse up, keep her in the stable or let her loose, what else can she do? Bar things happn- jumping the fence was a bad thing, of course safety is important, but she is taking precautions with Mika.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

My advice is to get a trainer to teach you, like I said. You cannot, let me repeat this a few times, cannot cAnNoT CANNOT learn how to train baby or unhandled horses from a book, or a forum, or a movie. You need someone there to coach you. Someone to say "When he does that, do this" or who can step in and show you what you are doing wrong. 

I have been training baby horses for longer than you have been alive, and I STILL like to have my parents there(mostly for the ego stroking praise telling me how awesome I am now) but also to help me when I get in a bind. 

You need a trainer for YOU.
You need a mentor for YOU.
You need hands on help for YOU. 

You may be good, you may have talent, you may ONE DAY be better than every person on this forum. Right now, you are inexperienced AT HANDLING UNHANDLED HORSES. Keep in mind I did not say you are inexperienced completely. You do not know what you are doing. 

In this situation, you are going to get hurt and RUIN the horse. You need a trainer to show you what you need to be doing. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

The OP lost me when she asked in the first post how to unstick a balking horse in the field. To me, anyone with a little experience understands how to fix that.

And then all the stuff about freedom, and slaves.......I'm sorry, but I can't take her seriously. Freedom. Really? Horses aren't free; you take that away every time you but a halter on, put them in a stall, have them behind a fence in a pasture, and feed them on a schedule. Is any of that freedom?

Slave? Really? When I tell my children to take out the garbage, mow the lawn, or take the leaves, are they my slaves? I'm a slave to them! I work hard to put food on their table, shoes on their feet, an education (college) and a car and insurance while they are in college. They at this point buy heir own clothes and phone plans. 

Same with a horse. I buy it everything it needs, and some things it really doesn't. When I want to have a daily ride, the darn beast better be ready, willing, and able to provide that. Since I keep him 'locked' up in a five acre pasture, his 'freedom' is a nice four or five hour trail ride.

Personally, I have no patience with this type of nonsense.

But the thread has been enjoyable nonetheless.

I apologize for stepping on the soap box. But the rainbows, butterflies, and horses that fart sprinkles just wear on me.......*sighs*


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

dommycob said:


> I have rules and boundaries. I just don't believe that we should neglect a horse of his freedom for 'fun'


So, when you are riding a horse and it bucks you off, that, in your rule book is fine because it wanted its freedom?



dommycob said:


> This is incredibly rude. She is a HORSE with her own mind. You can't control them. They are not yours to have. If she wanted to jump that fence then what am I meant to do? I have no buissness pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her freedom. She was fine with me like that and a lot more happy than a horse tied up with his nose to the wall.
> A foolish thing to do is think that your in control of the horse.
> Your not.


I cannot give you any advice on how to handle this horse as you are totally under a false opinion of how horses really are.

The ideal is _to control a horse's mind_ so that it is willing to work in a partnership _with_ you. 
By thinking that you have no business pulling her around by her head and keeping her away from her 'freedom' is going to teach her she can do what she wants when she wants. 
*there HAS to be rules and boundaries.* These have to be very tight and strict to start with, the handler has to be firm and fair. Consistent at all times.
This offers a horse good leadership and _especially with a nervous horse_ vital to build its trust in the fact that you can be its protector,

As trust, both ways, becomes established so those boundaries can widen but until then the horse _has_ to learn that what you say goes.

As long as you think that you have no right to control a horse then you are best to leave them all in a field.

I cannot tell you how many horses and ponies I have started. It would run into hundreds. Some were easy, some were very difficult where I would not allow anyone else to do anything with them. All were given rules and boundaries and the difficult ones kept in a tight boundary for longer than the easier ones, they needed it to gain trust and respect. _Everything they did wrong was corrected fairly._ The nervous ones were commanded to do whatever, they were never cooed over because that was rewarding unwanted behaviour. Before you jump to any misconceptions, none of these horses were beaten up, corrections were verbal or a shove or a finger poke.

So, my dear until you change your view on training, your view on control, then it not possible to advise you because it just will not work.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I feel so bad for this poor girl. She came here asking for help and she got crapped on.

ADULTS: There is a nice way and a not nice way to talk to kids. You can say the same thing without being rude. Why not take a little extra time to figure out the kinder way to approach things? You might actually find the person who sought your advice willing to listen if you did. And what's the point of talking if no one is listening? There isn't any point, so you might as well not bother.

This forum can be really amazing when people make that little extra effort to be kind and considerate. I have learned so much from many of you. But it can be a real hell hole when people don't make that effort. When threads like this happen it drives people away, people who NEED the help. That kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

This young woman needs your experienced help. She doesn't need your attacks. And yes, many of you have attacked her. It's pretty disgusting, and I'm reading the censored posts. She has legit questions that could use some legit answers (as given by tinyliny and jaydee). And she has raised some areas of concern. HELP HER don't make her feel like a turd for asking or trying. We all have to start somewhere.

And yes, I do realize her safety is chief concern, and she is at risk. So tell her. Tell her nicely. Share your experiences. Don't attack.

/rantover


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## libertylover (Jun 12, 2014)

ecasey said:


> I feel so bad for this poor girl. She came here asking for help and she got crapped on.
> 
> ADULTS: There is a nice way and a not nice way to talk to kids. You can say the same thing without being rude. Why not take a little extra time to figure out the kinder way to approach things? You might actually find the person who sought your advice willing to listen if you did. And what's the point of talking if no one is listening? There isn't any point, so you might as well not bother.
> 
> ...


Well said 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

She lost most of us with the freedom/slave thing.

When told hands on help was needed, she poo-pooed that.

The help she needs can NOT be obtained with a few typed words spewed on a computer screen.

Now here is a rant:

Personally, sometimes children (and us adults) need a strong dose of reality.

Is her future boss gonna give a dern if he has to correct her, or tell her how to do something and she doesn't agree so she gets mouthy and he then fires her?

What is it with kids today (and their parents) that you can't tell a kid how it is? This 'everyone wins a ribbon' mentality is not doing society any favors. Kids are not porcelain dolls.

When did it become correct, or ok for kids to become mouthy?

The way some kids act today, they think they know it all since exiting the womb. BS. We are learning stuff until the day our brain cells die. You can be open to learning, or not.

In the 60's, if I had talked like the OP to any number of the older horsemen/women in barns I hung out at, I would have had a pointed toe boot upside my head. And I would have been escorted off the property. Then my mom would have kicked my tushie to boot, because I was being snotty, bratty, mouthy, and a spoiled little know it all.

I didn't win any ribbons either (that was back before everyone won a ribbon to build self esteem and all that crap).......but, I did learn to listen, and be real quiet. Amazing what a young girl can learn when she is quietly sitting backing listening to everything......*grins*


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Slightly off topic, but according to your profile OP, you are about to turn 16 in august, yet you claim in this thread to be 13. Its a bit of a difference. Just curious.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Can't this feeding frenzy be over?

Hasn't everyone said everything they have to say by now?


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

BlueSpark said:


> Slightly off topic, but according to your profile OP, you are about to turn 16 in august, yet you claim in this thread to be 13. Its a bit of a difference. Just curious.


A lot of people put a different year for their age. Especially if they are young, and possibly trying to get past some of the rules reserved for younger members.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

sarahfromsc said:


> She lost most of us with the freedom/slave thing.
> 
> When told hands on help was needed, she poo-pooed that.
> 
> ...


Amen to that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

ecasey said:


> I feel so bad for this poor girl. She came here asking for help and she got crapped on.
> 
> ADULTS: There is a nice way and a not nice way to talk to kids. You can say the same thing without being rude. Why not take a little extra time to figure out the kinder way to approach things? You might actually find the person who sought your advice willing to listen if you did. And what's the point of talking if no one is listening? There isn't any point, so you might as well not bother.
> 
> ...


The purpose being although she refuses to listen someone else reading this might learn from it. I've said it before and I'll say it again... Green on green may equal black and blue but green + unhandled = death wish. I have followed this thread from the moment it was posted and it started out very nicely. OP chose not to accept the advise and spouted some very concerning safety issues. Safety should always be first and foremost. Giving advice in this situation would be dangerous. I can not consciously give advise after some of OPs responses. Her or the horse's death or injury will not be on my conscious. Sorry if that makes me mean or rude or whatever else you want to claim. Just because people haven't agreed or sugar coated things for the OP we are suddenly the big ol meanies. Oh well... It is what it is. If you can't do something as simple as unstick a horse on a lead line then you absolutely have no right to be near an unhandled horse. Sometimes kids need a reality check. That's my piece on the matter. OP listens or she doesn't. Its her neck not mine. She should feel honored people care enough to say the hard things. Trust me we don't want to tell you that you can't do it but making it rainbows and butterflies would be an injustice to OP and the horse in question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

OP I am glad that todays lesson went well. That said, I would consider no longer working with this horse. The first reason is liability and risk of injury. As I am sure you know horses are powerful animals and can injure you. Are you willing to risk your skin and health for a horse you are not being paid to work with? Are you able to cover the cost of the horse getting hurt? I ask this because when I was 15 we went out of town and had a girl horse sit for us. She was a C level pony club member had been riding her entire life and wanted to go to vet school. I have no clue what happened while we were away but when we came home the horse was "a little lame" as her letter indicated. Which turned out to be three legged lame due to a fracture and the horse had to be euthanized. Which is why obvious injuries to the legs without a vet call tick me off. Do you want to be responsible for this horse seriously injuring itself? That is why the fact that the horse jumped the fence and you did not call the vet worries me. This horse has shown it is willing to disregard its safety (it was clearly injured during the jump). You have shown a willingness to disregard the health and safety of someone else's property. 

I know it is really flattering to be young and have someone want to break or train your horse. That said, doesn't it bother you that they don't value your life or skills enough to pay you? Isn't this service you are providing worth getting paid for and if not than should you get it up to par enough to be worth a fee? I have always turned down anyone who wanted me to train them or their horse. This is because I don't want that liability (financially or ethically). I don't have the facility and some of those horses have been flat out dangerous. You are in the toddler years of your life (relatively speaking) it is much more beneficial to you and your skills to ask to shadow an experienced, reputable trainer as they bring this horse along. 

If you insist on continuing to train what do you plan to train this horse to do? What is your area of expertise? When will you start to ground drive? When do you plan to teach her to lunge? How do you plan to address her buddy sour behavior?


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

rookie said:


> OP I am glad that todays lesson went well. That said, I would consider no longer working with this horse. The first reason is liability and risk of injury. As I am sure you know horses are powerful animals and can injure you. Are you willing to risk your skin and health for a horse you are not being paid to work with? Are you able to cover the cost of the horse getting hurt? I ask this because when I was 15 we went out of town and had a girl horse sit for us. She was a C level pony club member had been riding her entire life and wanted to go to vet school. I have no clue what happened while we were away but when we came home the horse was "a little lame" as her letter indicated. Which turned out to be three legged lame due to a fracture and the horse had to be euthanized. Which is why obvious injuries to the legs without a vet call tick me off. Do you want to be responsible for this horse seriously injuring itself? That is why the fact that the horse jumped the fence and you did not call the vet worries me. This horse has shown it is willing to disregard its safety (it was clearly injured during the jump). You have shown a willingness to disregard the health and safety of someone else's property.
> 
> I know it is really flattering to be young and have someone want to break or train your horse. That said, doesn't it bother you that they don't value your life or skills enough to pay you? Isn't this service you are providing worth getting paid for and if not than should you get it up to par enough to be worth a fee? I have always turned down anyone who wanted me to train them or their horse. This is because I don't want that liability (financially or ethically). I don't have the facility and some of those horses have been flat out dangerous. You are in the toddler years of your life (relatively speaking) it is much more beneficial to you and your skills to ask to shadow an experienced, reputable trainer as they bring this horse along.
> 
> If you insist on continuing to train what do you plan to train this horse to do? What is your area of expertise? When will you start to ground drive? When do you plan to teach her to lunge? How do you plan to address her buddy sour behavior?


Well said. I tend to be blunt to the point it comes off rude although I never intend to be rude. OP I genuinely want to hear your answers as well and not to judge you but so we can understand you better. Right now we only have your post to judge by. Please provide more information to make this thread helpful for you. These questions will help a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

the horse is cute. 
OP.. dont lie about your age, it does not help in the long run, and it wont get any sympathy.

THe horse is simply untrained. It sounds as if she has had some ground work done, since she does follow you around.

It is not safe to have her off a lead line , she could spook and be over the top of you in an instant. at least with the lead you would have some of control on her. 
Try working in an arena or round pen,
DO not let her play with the other loose horses when you are 'handling ' her. 
even a small bump on the knee can turn into a nightmare , cellutlitis etc. 
she needs a ton of ground work and handling . 
Is there a trainer at your barn ? a professional as in someone whom does this for a living ?
if so, the horse needs to go there first.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I only read the first couple pages but I'm curious. Why do you think this horse was abused? Did the owner tell you the horse was abused? Why do you think the horse is scared? In the photos, it doesn't look scared. Has it been ridden? It looks like it's been ridden.

I'm just curious.



I do by the way have a horse that was truly abused. Bee bee guns, 2x4s, malnutrition, etc. He was my first horse and I made the big mistake of thinking that because he was abused he was never to see anything but kindness. He became a very spoiled and rude animal. I was pretty lucky with him but he has run people completely over, to include myself. He went through I don't know how many farriers and trainers used to call him crazy. Hey, I was "Parelli" before there was a Parelli.

It was very much the wrong way to handle him but I was 15 and he was 3 and I knew it all. Now that I'm...older and he's 30, we have a really good relationship but that horse got away with some bad bad behavior "because he was abused". It's not an excuse. I have had 3 other horses that have seen different forms of abuse. I stern hand and common sense have earned me wonderful animals that anyone can handle. Earning their trust while maintaining alpha status was pretty easy. It took a few months with one and less than a year with one. The one that had seen the worst abuse took longer, but he also trusted the most....


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

I think that it's time to put this thread to sleep. What has been said has been said now.


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