# Red Dun or Sorrel?



## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

The general consensus is sorrel, but she has a red dorsal stripe.
What do you guys think? Red dun or sorrel? Does a dorsal stripe automatically consider a horse to be a dun? In the summer, she fades out to be a deep gold color. In the winter her coat becomes more of a rich chestnut. Her mane and tail is flaxen with red "low lights." I totally wish I had her hair!! 

Dixie Lou is a $300 trail horse, that we love very much. She came from an auction with no papers. She is very Quarter looking, but has a sweet dished face and is built a little narrow like an Arab.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Sorrel


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sorrel. With Flaxen. My mare has the same coloring, even a darker "dorsal stripe" but it's just shading...

This is a red dun...


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## hillside farm (Dec 23, 2011)

If it has a dorsal, it is a dun, duns come in many shades Golden, Red, etc..


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

hillside farm said:


> If it has a dorsal, it is a dun, duns come in many shades Golden, Red, etc..


Not true. Many horses have countershading, which gives the impression of a dorsal.
True duns have to display more than just the dorsal, be it shoulder barring or zebra stripes on the legs. Also, to be a dun one of the parents has to have been a dun for the gene to be passed on. It is not something that just "crops up".

That mare appears to be a sorrel in these pictures, as the others have mentioned.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

the horse looks sorrel to me too


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Agree with Ruffian. Plus from what I've seen/heard/read true dun dorsal stripes look a lot more crisp than just a countershading one which have blurry edges. You can tell by the picture of your mare compared to the port posted. 

And btw, do they call it countershading or just shading? I feel like I've seen it both ways but I wasn't sure
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

If the horse is a Quarter horse it is a sorrel. Duns usually have dorsal stripes, transverse lines on withers, stripes on legs and their tails are supposed to be black or brown not flaxen. 
Sorrels do and can have a bit of a darker stripe along their spine but it doesnt make them dun without the other characteristics.


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## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

I've never heard of the term countershading, which is interesting! She definitely doesn't have any transverse lines or zebra stripes.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

The horse looks half Quarter Horse half Arab


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## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

@ Country Woman... We think so too!  She is very nicely built. If only we had papers... But in the end, she has a good home and a nice job, so all is well.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

Does not matter what breed she is she is lovely 
and loved
Would love to see more pictures


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## Iain (Jan 3, 2012)

hillside farm said:


> If it has a dorsal, it is a dun, duns come in many shades Golden, Red, etc..


He looks sorrel to me, duns have different stripping on their legs or shoulders, sometimes on or close to their face.


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## hillside farm (Dec 23, 2011)

lilruffian said:


> Not true. Many horses have countershading, which gives the impression of a dorsal.
> True duns have to display more than just the dorsal, be it shoulder barring or zebra stripes on the legs. Also, to be a dun one of the parents has to have been a dun for the gene to be passed on. It is not something that just "crops up".
> 
> That mare appears to be a sorrel in these pictures, as the others have mentioned.


Sorry guess I should have been more clear with my reply.
The question she asked was if a horse has a dorsal is it a dun?
I said yes, only horses I know with a dorsal are duns and can vary from a red to golden color.
I have owned 3 dun paints and all of them have dorsals and zebra markings on the legs.
Look at the pictures I have posted and you will see my duns.
Of course the picture she had of her horse with a saddle on looks like a sorrel to me also, and if I had to guess at the breed of that horse I would say Arab X QH............


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't understand how that made your previous response more clear. Your only supporting evidence is that you've owned 3 dun horses and they're the only horses you've ever seen with a dorsal so that automatically makes the posters horse a dun? 

Here is a very helpful website about duns that also shows horses with dorsals that are not duns. Dun Central Station - Look-A-Like Colors
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hillside farm (Dec 23, 2011)

Bridgertrot said:


> I don't understand how that made your previous response more clear. Your only supporting evidence is that you've owned 3 dun horses and they're the only horses you've ever seen with a dorsal so that automatically makes the posters horse a dun?
> 
> Here is a very helpful website about duns that also shows horses with dorsals that are not duns. Dun Central Station - Look-A-Like Colors
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have no idea what you are talking about Honey, You need to Go Back and READ the Poster's Post , And then Read My Replies to her Question about a Dorsal Stripe, I NEVER said her horse was a DUN !!!!!!!!!!!


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

lilruffian said:


> Not true. Many horses have countershading, which gives the impression of a dorsal.
> True duns have to display more than just the dorsal, be it shoulder barring or zebra stripes on the legs. Also, to be a dun one of the parents has to have been a dun for the gene to be passed on. It is not something that just "crops up".
> 
> That mare appears to be a sorrel in these pictures, as the others have mentioned.


While this is true that some horses who look dun are just counter shading it is not true that to be a true dun that you MUST have leg shoulder barbs or any other primitive markings out side of a dorsal. You can have a true dun with just a dorsal.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Iain said:


> He looks sorrel to me, duns have different stripping on their legs or shoulders, sometimes on or close to their face.


Not all. There are red duns and duns out there who only have dorsal strips and no other markings.


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## hillside farm (Dec 23, 2011)

All Dun horses possess at least the Dorsal Stripe, but the other presence of the other Primitive Markings Varies.
I never stated the 3 Dun Paint horses I now have are the only horses I have seen with a Dorsal.
I have owned several Dun QH's (red & golden duns) in the past and they all had a Dorsal Stripe.
I am sorry if anyone misunderstood my replies.........:?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

A dorsal is the one dun marking that a dun horse MUST have. All the other primitive markings some will have and others will not.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

As well as the dorsal, the dun horse should display a lighter colour on the body than the one in the OP. Dun is a dilution gene, and does more than create primitive markings.


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## Tapperjockey (Jan 2, 2012)

she looks like a flaxen chestnut to me.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

hillside farm said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about Honey, You need to Go Back and READ the Poster's Post , And then Read My Replies to her Question about a Dorsal Stripe, I NEVER said her horse was a DUN !!!!!!!!!!!


First off...chill. No need to get defensive over a simple conversation. I feel that you should reread the posts as well as the OP asked several questions. And I was simply pointing out the fact that horses with dorsals are not all duns.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Bridgertrot said:


> I was simply pointing out the fact that horses with dorsals are not all duns.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That depends on what you consider a dorsal. If you are lumping in counter shading into the dorsal then you are correct. However if you are not then it is not a correct statement. If a horse has a true dorsal it is a dun horse.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

nrhareiner said:


> That depends on what you consider a dorsal. If you are lumping in counter shading into the dorsal then you are correct. However if you are not then it is not a correct statement. If a horse has a true dorsal it is a dun horse.


While this is completely true, and yes, I am agreeing with you here, there are instances of countershading creating what appears to be a true dorsal. Usually we assume false dorsals are not as defined, not as narrow or other such things.

Dun Central Station - Look-A-Like Colors

Check out some of these countershading dorsals though lol. I love how genes seem to go out of their way to make our heads spin :lol:


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

nrhareiner said:


> That depends on what you consider a dorsal. If you are lumping in counter shading into the dorsal then you are correct. However if you are not then it is not a correct statement. If a horse has a true dorsal it is a dun horse.


Yep, my statement was about people lumping in countershading with dun dorsals. 

The link Chiilla posted is the same link I posted on the second page.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Bridgertrot said:


> Yep, my statement was about people lumping in countershading with dun dorsals.
> 
> The link Chiilla posted is the same link I posted on the second page.


*blush*

I knew I had seen it on HF somewhere :lol::lol::lol:


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

I was told I bought a red dun QH. His pedigree states dun and his lineage carries the dun gene. 

he has a dorsal. But he is a beautiful reddish gold with red mane and tail. His red main and tail has some gold especially at the base. He is redder than any horse I have seen. 

How red can a red dun be?

I'm on my iPad, can't upload photos. :-(


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

AQHSam said:


> I was told I bought a red dun QH. His pedigree states dun and his lineage carries the dun gene.
> 
> he has a dorsal. But he is a beautiful reddish gold with red mane and tail. His red main and tail has some gold especially at the base. He is redder than any horse I have seen.
> 
> ...


Download the imageshack app, and use that :lol:


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

To define Dun via AQHA it states duns can be yellow or gold with Black or Brown mane, and tail and a dorsal stripe which is clearly defined. May have zebra striping and traverse lines over withers. They have an excellent color chart for anyone interested. It can be found at 
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=aqha%20color%20chart&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CC8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aqha.com%2F~%2Fmedia%2FF54C94906A4E48A3974B70B52A65BA70.ashx&ei=Ku8GT9C2OsfV0QGKxozODg&usg=AFQjCNGOtJ9tSoFKC1yekxzJS2VD-EHUrA
Hope this is helpful. If the link doesnt work simply type in AQHA Color chart in Google.


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Here is a very recent photo of my AQH Sam. You can see a bit of the dorsel fin near the base of his tail. It does go from the withers to the tail set and is very prominent.

His legs do appear to have a variated shading. Is this what the posters on the thread are talking about?

If this works, I will have an indoor shot and outdoor shot (where the red is very prominent.).


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## jbolt (Jan 1, 2012)

Nice lookin pretty mare, I'd have bought her if i'd seen her for that price


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## missnashvilletime (Dec 20, 2011)

Definitely sorrel, on another note; I saw a lady advertising a horse with this exact coloring as a red dun -.- she is sadly mistaken. We have one the same color (although his tail is more flaxen) Example:
This is willy, a sorrel with a flaxen mane and tail:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.266432042471.147772.558597471&type=3
and this is a red dun: 
011.jpg picture by MissNashvilleTime - Photobucket
011.jpg picture by MissNashvilleTime - Photobucket
Although you can't see it in his winter coat, chet has zebra striping on his legs and as you can see in these, face masking.
I hope this helped


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## Radar Star Stables (Dec 31, 2011)

sorrel


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