# Debate psychotropic drugs with me!!!



## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

Depression is not a Chemical Imbalance in Your Brain - Here's Proof

All right- everyone here is intelligent and has opinions they can back up. What do you think about psychotropic drugs? Are they medicating something not real? Can you treat bipolar when you cannot see it?? The video is short.....


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

I found the video to be correct, & from my own experience, true to fact.

I went to a psychiatrist in my 20's, under pressure from family dynamics, & I'd talked for all of 30 seconds before he said, "Talking won't help; I'm putting you on a drug." I was stunned!

Went along with it, took the drug, & started feeling suicidal. I'd call him saying so, & he'd say, "Can't this wait till our appointment on Monday?" Unbelievable! 

People told me that my personality was far more robotic, as well. 

Of course, negative experiences on psychotropics have happened to so many people, so I am firmly in agreement with the video.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

This video annoys me. I'm only half way through and I'm legitimately angry. I have ADHD and I _guarantee_ you, ADHD does not just mean you cannot pay attention to some things. I have sat down and cried because I haven't been able to clean my own bedroom thanks to ADHD. I have to have things in lists and have an order in which those things have to be done. I can't just be thrown into a, say, messy bedroom and be told to clean it. There are too many things I could do and I think about all of them at the same time and then I get confused and really upset because I can't do it. There's an unbelievable how pathetic you feel about yourself when you can't clean up your own bedroom because you don't know what do to. 

Last year, in my Psychology class, I did my final project on ADHD because it was something I already knew about, as a point in the project, I didn't take my ritalin (I only ever do when I have to get something done). It took me EIGHT HOURS to write a 2.5 page paper. It was supposed to be 3 pages. I ended up getting full credit because I did that. 

I get so stressed and there are huge chunks of my day that I have no recollection of because I zoned out. I am going to try a friend's Adderall because my ritalin has started giving me a headache when it wears off and then I get tired. That's my only issue with it. I get things done when I take it. I feel better because I can go "Hey. I cleaned my entire apartment in 2 hours. This would have taken me days to do otherwise."

And diagnosis for ADHD is usually being questioned about your life and how you deal with things and then a TOVA test. A TOVA is this like 20 minute test where you listen to two different tones, one high and one low. Every time you hear either the high one or the low one (depending on which they tell you), you press a little clicker. I had taken this when I was younger, so I knew about it when I finally convinced my mother to let me get retested a couple years ago. The guy told me I would be taking one and I basically begged him not to make me do that. I hate it. He told me later after figuring everything out that he figured I had it when I said that. Normal people thing it's annoying to sit for 20 minutes pressing a clicker at sounds. If you have ADHD, it's torture. 

There are side effects with every form of medication. Everyone is different and will react differently. This video seems very propagandistic.



Northern said:


> I went to a psychiatrist in my 20's, under pressure from family dynamics, & I'd talked for all of 30 seconds before he said, "Talking won't help; I'm putting you on a drug." I was stunned!


I would have found a different psychiatrist.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Northern, your experience is not (or shouldn't be) normal. Sorry it happened in the first place - my instinct would have been "uh, no thankyou, drug happy doctor!" Sadly people go along regardless, because they're doctors and should know best - makes me sad. 
I will be interested in reading the article when I get home - I studied psychology and still have a strong interest in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Propagandist video. Wonder what he's selling?

I do believe that we're over medicated as a whole, especially our children. However, psychotropic drugs_ do_ help in the right circumstances.

Tell me, do you think PMS is real? Why? You can't SEE it, so it must not exist, right? That's the exact same argument this doctor is proposing for depression and mental illness, and it just simply doesn't hold water.

That video also isn't factual, since there have been studies done that do show chemical changes to the brain during depression/mental illness.

I think too many people have bought into the 'better living through chemistry' ideal, but it's not all hogwash like this person is claiming.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

According to the beliefs of this video, imagination and a mind's eye are also nonexistent. You can't see it, so it's not there. 

And even if a psychiatrist says you have xyz condition, they can't prescribe you medicine. You have to go to a medical doctor for that, where you will sit down and discuss options with them (or you should) and they will try to figure out which will work with you and your body. If the first one doesn't work, then they try a different. Same with every other medication.

I would like to add that Ritalin is the second ADHD medication I have been on because the first one I was on DID have terrible side effects on me. The first one was Strattera, which is a long-term ADHD medication. You take it everyday and it will work 24/7. However, on me, it made me normal, then a zombie for an hour, then for another hour, my heart rate would jump from like 70 (sitting in class) to 150 for no reason. I was told not to take it anymore by my doctor, but I had to take my ACT later that week. I took one of the last ones I had for that test and was fine with it. The next day, I didn't think to go "Oh, hey this is still in my system." so I went swimming. I ended up pulling myself out the pool while hyperventilating and being the dizziest I've ever been. My heart rate was over 200 and stayed that high for about a half hour, then dropped down in 10 beat increments over a couple hours until it stopped at 150 and wouldn't go lower. I had to go to the ER because my chest started hurting.

I have a crappy heart, thanks to genetics and that particular medication didn't work for me. Ritalin doesn't do that to me and is a short-term medicine and works the same as Tylenol: One pill = one dose. When it wears off, it's out of your system. Much more convenient for me.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Citrus said:


> Depression is not a Chemical Imbalance in Your Brain - Here's Proof
> 
> All right- everyone here is intelligent and has opinions they can back up. What do you think about psychotropic drugs? Are they medicating something not real? Can you treat bipolar when you cannot see it?? The video is short.....


First off, I would never believe or follow a pharmaceutical company's advertisements or videos. Depression is caused by chemical imbalances. I advise to only follow the actual studies that have been done by the medical journals. PHysicians have to earn the title to be able to post in those journals, and they are re-read multiple times before ever being published by the public, so they are the articles to follow-not a Mercola.com webpage.

Second medications do successfully mask or reduce the symptoms caused by depression. Unfortunately non to date can actually cure depression which is the route of the problem. 

Scientific Articles:
Monoamine oxidase A inhibitor occupancy during tre... [J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2011] - PubMed result

The serotonin transporter is an exclusive client o... [J Biol Chem. 2011] - PubMed result

[Diagnostic characteristics epidemiology and patho... [Psychiatr Hung. 2010] - PubMed result


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Poseidon said:


> And even if a psychiatrist says you have xyz condition, they can't prescribe you medicine.


Actually Po, a registered psychiatrist can prescribe medication, since they're also an MD. Psychologists can't, however.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Actually Po, a registered psychiatrist can prescribe medication, since they're also an MD. Psychologists can't, however.


My bad. I mixed them up.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I have a friend who has ADHD. It took her 6 years to graduate collage because of it. She hates taking her adderall because it makes her depressed, she cant eat or sleep while taking it. 

But if she doesn't take it I can always tell. I'm afraid to have her drive with me in the car because shes doing 20 things at one time...on the phone, eating, changing the radio; as I sit there fearing for my life. 

I also have an aunt who was diagnosed with something called Erotic Mania. I don't know too much about it, but she was admitted to a hospital. Where she was forced to take medication, she did really well with it. 

Then we she came home she thought she didn't need the medication and didnt take it. Now, she is not doing well at all. She's crazy, for lack of a better word.

I also rode with a girl who is bipolar...she she was great for months...we rode all summer together and the horse she rode was doing really well also.

Then in the fall she stopped taking her medication and got sever anxiety...she wasn't herself. She didn't even look the same. She had to stop riding, because she was making the horse get too skittish and was ruining all her hard work she had made with during the summer.

So I think medications do work, but like any medication it is going to have side effects.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I'm even more interested now to watch the video. Its been shown through many, many studies that depression is due to chemical imbalances. 
I can speak to that point. In the past year, I have been on a number of hormone treatments to get a physical problem under control. Each of those hormone treatments made me feel completely differently - just due to the hormones alone. They're amazingly mighty things, and unless you've experienced it, you won't understand it - which is unfortunate. Hormones and other chemical reactions in the body are amazingly powerful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

There's no denying that hormones & other chemical reactions are extremely powerful within the body. It's that the little men in white coats in the labs have formulated chemicals which, for so many, have had devastating, rather than healing, effects.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Northern said:


> There's no denying that hormones & other chemical reactions are extremely powerful within the body. It's that the little men in white coats in the labs have formulated chemicals which, for so many, have had devastating, rather than healing, effects.



If there are too many side effects or the side effects are way worse than what the drug is treating, the FDA will not approve the drug. 

I work in the pharmaceutical industry and more than once, I've been working on projects only to find out months later the drug was either, not approved or yanked off the market. Mainly due to side effects.

If drugs are used correctly and you report EVERYTHING to your doctor, there is less chance of something devastating happening.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

What an interesting topic. I don’t any personal experience with mental disorders; however I have been involved in the field of medicine for a number of years now. As such, I have a couple of points to make both for and against the arguments made in the video, I really don’t think anyone will read it all but here you go anyway:

*Where I disagree with the video:*
The video mentions the difficulty in medicating something that “isn’t physically there” and the notion that these disorders are not real has been disproven more than once. I can’t _see_ electricity but I know it is real because I see the effects and I can measure the voltage. Same principle. Disorders such as bipolar, depression and schizophrenia are very real and very diagnosable. There are important neurological molecules involved in each disorder that are quantifiable and can be shown to have significant differences between patients and non-sufferers for example serotonin, dopamine, p11 protein, acetylcholine, noradrenalin etc etc etc. These conditions are very real, especially for those who suffer from them.

*Where I agree with the video:*
The actual _mechanism_ of each disorder (i.e. why and how regulation of certain neurotransmitters goes awry) is not clearly understood. We see the effect but the cause is notoriously hard to define. Likewise for the treatments, we know they can work for some people but the exact mechanism is not understood. They do not work for ALL people, probably because it is exceedingly difficult to prescribe the correct treatment when you are not quite sure what you are up against and how it developed. To further complicate matters, such disorders are usually not black and white scenarios; we see a spectrum of effects, from those with mild, infrequent symptoms to those with chronic severe symptoms. Hence it is impossible to develop an all encompassing treatment for everyone that suffers from it. Usually the treatment plans are “hit and miss” until the patient finds something that works for them. The consequences of trying numerous psychotropic agents that may or may not offer benefit puts the individual under considerable duress and the treatment may actually be worse than the condition. It happens.

Additionally, it is my personal belief that pharmaceutical companies are guilty of marketing their products to those who don’t necessarily need it. It is a money making industry after all, anyone who thinks that Big Pharma creates drugs to rid society of suffering is sorely mistaken, it is a business. Fortunately one of the by-products of that business is useful treatments for many diseases and disorders.

So should such treatments be prescribed if so little is known about them? Well, as with many situations in medicine, it depends. Of course I am in two minds on this one as well:

*Yes treatment should be available and recommended:*
For many people, such treatments are their only option to living within society and as an independent individual. Look at it this way: It is estimated that up to 30% of adult homeless people suffer from long term mental illness, severe mental disorders are not conducive to leading successful independent lives and individuals are commonly shunned by society. Next time you see a homeless person, ask yourself “How did you get here? Could it have been prevented somehow?”

*No treatment shouldn’t be prescribed:*
If the person is capable of functioning and isn’t a risk to themselves or others then I don’t believe that medication should necessarily be the _only_ answer. We live in an over medicated world as it is and it is interesting here in the US the death like grip Big Pharma has on the medical industry. Did you know that the US is the only developed country in the world that allows Direct To Consumer Marketin (DTCM)? There is a reason it is banned in most countries: It creates hysteria, convinces people that they have conditions that they don’t necessarily suffer from and the end result is that the patient goes to the doctor having already decided on their own prognosis. Well, that is backwards. There is a very good reason doctors spend all that time and effort in medical school – to make informed and correct decisions _for the patient._

I am all for holistic approaches with respect to medical conditions and believe that the human body is capable of incredible feats of healing if we just give it the right environment and enough time. I also believe that there comes a time when the healing power of nature isn’t sufficient, and that is when modern medicine should step in and assist.

Lastly I want to say that with all mental disorders, it is an intensely personal decision, to be made by the individual after consultation with family and close friends with input from several medical professionals. There is no right or wrong answer, just what is right for THAT person at THAT time.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Gosh. I could type pages on this, but instead I'll just try and summarize.
Here's my main points... 

1)For some people, SSRIs/psychotropic drugs/etc are extremely helpful. For some people, they can be the best way to make life managable to the point that you can start making changes in therapy/life/general functioning. 

Notice I say 'people' not 'illnesses'. It's important for the professional to treat the individual, not the disease. If a person has come to you diagnosed as bipolar, it's important to resist the urge to start giving them meds for it and instead look at the situation as a whole. 

2) Medications being advertised on TV or in the media is a very new invention. Before it was the doctor who advised you to go on medicine XYZ. Now, it's not uncommon for the patient to have self diagnosed themselves and done some googling or watched a few commercials and is now convinced they need to be on drug X to be 'fixed' 

3) Some mental illnesses are episodic. Some are chronic. If you are depressed because you just had a breakup/death/trauma. Chances are you do not need medications. Therapy can help, in these cases, but meds are fairly useless unless it is something like Adivan (fast acting relief for anxiety). 
However if you chronically suffer from depression/mania/whatever... medications may be something for you and your psychiatrist to look into. 

4) The patient needs to understand who they are talking to. Who do you need to go to for your problems? A Psychiatrist? Therapist? LCSW? School Counselor? Cognitive Therapist? These all fall under the mental health spectrum. All of them can get you on medications one way or the other (though fastest route is generally a Psychiatrist). But all of them usually use different models of understanding. For instance, if you go to a therapist who believes in the biological model he believes that mental illness is caused by inaccurate firings or neurons/imbalances, etc. They often use drugs as a first route. 

However if you go to say a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist, they will believe that you can change how you think and react to help fix your problem. Understanding these classifications can be helpful. 


---

I think we are overmedicating. Not only is it the doctors, but is the parents and patients who are looking for a quick fix and the doctors are more then willing to attempt to give it to them. If you've ever tried to find the right drug for you though you know it can be a long delicate process. 

It's so important to understand what you are attempting to treat and make your own decisions. Sure, that's the doctors job. But it's much easier to push a drug and please then pharmaceutical reps and that's the unfortunate truth. It's an ethical dilema, but I don't think it's a question of if psychotropic drugs work or not. They do. But they are not a cure-all.


ETA:: 
Someone mentioned it's a medical doctor, not a psychiatrist who has to give you medication. Plenty of times this is not true. Psychiatrists are different from psychologists (or therapists, counselors, lcsws, etc) in that they have gone to medical school and are MDs. They will start in a generalist doctor program and then specialize in psychiatric medicine. A psychiatrist (MD) CAN prescribe medication. A Psychologist (PhD) can not.


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

Wow- you are all good... it is clearly not a one sided issue... I am not sure what this guy is selling so as to steer him away from pharmaceuticals... I actually listened to the whole video, which was nearly three hours long. I was noticing the marketing in the video of the soothing music and the sound of the guys voice..... I am betting those make things more marketable, eh?

I agree that the treatment is an intensely personal one, but I also fear the side effects, regardless. I have the same feeling about cleaning my room, or any room, as Poisiden has. I love list. I constantly think but I have been told I do not have ADHD or ADD. 

It is interesting and I wonder what their set criteria are for you need pills or you have nothing.....


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Citrus said:


> It is interesting and I wonder what their set criteria are for you need pills or you have nothing.....


The DSM is the manual for diagnosis. They will be coming out with the new one shortly. So for instance say for ADD the criteria is: *
INATTENTION
(need 6 of 9)

often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work or other activities
often has difficulty sustaining attention in tasks or play activities
often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly
often does not follow through on instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (no if oppositional behavior or doesn’t understand instructions)
often has difficulty organizing tasks and activities
often avoids, dislikes, or is reluctant to engage in tasks or activities that require sustained mental effort (such as schoolwork or homework)
often loses things necessary for tasks or activities (e.g., toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools)
often easily distracted by extraneous stimuli
often forgetful in daily activities
HYPERACTIVITY-IMPULSIVITY 
(need 6 of 9)

often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat
often leaves seat in classroom or in other situations in which remaining seated is expected
often runs about or climbs excessively in situations in which it is inappropriate (in adolescents or adults, may be limited to subjective feelings of restlessness)
often has difficulty playing or engaging in leisure activities quietly
is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor"
often talks excessively
often blurts out answers before questions have been completed
often has difficulty awaiting turn
often interrupts or intrudes on others (e.g., butts into conversations or games)
REQUIREMENTS

Present at least 6 months, maladaptive and inconsistent with development level
Some symptoms that caused impairment were present before age 7
Some impairment from the symptoms is present in two or more settings (e.g., at school {or work} and at home)
There must be clear evidence of clinically significant impairment in social, academic or occupational functioning







It does not actually tell you the treatment. The doctor or psychiatrist should know how SSRIs, Anti Anxieties, whatever will work and where they have a history of being beneficial and to what age group but it is then up to the client to work with his doctor/therapist/team to figure out an accurate care plan. Since you must treat the entire patient, this should not just be medication. So you may add therapy or changes in behavior to help treat the illness. 

Basically it can be very arbitrary and up to personal opinions, models of treatment, or values. There is no 'Treat illness A with Drug Z to make it go away'



*Source: http://www.mental-health-today.com/add/dsm.htm


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I was diagnosed with ADHD when i was 6 years old. I was on Aderoll, Medidate, Riddilin (dont mind my spelling of any of these), or any other kind of drug they shoved down my throat thinking itll shut me up. From 2nd grade till 6th grade i got straight A's. But i was also only 65 pounds, and had serious social problems. I had no friends, and i was endlessly tormented by the other kids. I wouldnt eat, i wouldnt talk, and i wouldnt sleep. When i came home from school every day i would sit on the couch and color till bed time. Weekends i was allowed to be off my meds, i can remember sitting outside on my swingset for hours crying and hating myself, wishing i was dead. I felt trapped inside my own body. When i was 10 years old i tried to kill myself because of those stupid medications i was on. At the time i didnt see any other way out. I tried not taking them, but my parents started to make me take the meds infront of them to be sure that i didnt throw them away. 

For a long time i hated my parents for putting me threw that. I always told them they ruined my life. But as i got older i realized they were only trying to help and did what they thought was best by me. My therapist (who has been seeing me and my family since i was 4, who is also an MD) was the one who suggested i be put on the medications. She has always been "pro drug" and still suggests i take some kind of medication to help me focus. I have been considering it lately since college is taking its toll on my mind. But in regards to when i was younger i feel it could have been handled and dealt with in a much better manner. I completely agree with the statement that we are "over medicating" doctors, therapists, etc are so quick to push drugs on you.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Your post just breaks my heart, Delete. So many of these drugs are not made for children. Their brains are growing and developing so much that these meds can cause a lot more harm than good. I feel like medication should be the last ditch effort for young children. 
The US and UK have an INSANELY high diagnosis of ADD and ADHD. Not only are they over medicating, but in many instances they are overdiagnosing. Problems that are just normal child behavior are getting treated with medicines. These illnesses are a huge problem if you have them, but I feel theres a lot of issues going around with the diagnosis and treatment of children.


/Rant


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

The worst part was, they combined drugs with me because they felt one wasnt enough. I was on aderoll& riddilin at the same time when i was 8-11


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

The overdiagnosing and overmedicating of ADHD was part of my research for my Psych final project. It's usually on boys because little boys can and do often have ADHD, but they're little kids. Let them be spastic unless it's getting seriously out of hand. The majority of boys "grow out" of ADHD during puberty and hence, no longer need their meds if they were given them. Girls, on the other hand, usually develop ADHD during puberty, but they think it's normal and don't really say anything. Girls also usually have Inattentive ADHD, so nobody knows they have a concentration problem but them. My mom attributed my bad grades and staying up until 4am to write a 2 page paper to lack of sleep for _years_. When I finally got the results back from the psychologist (not psychiatrist, which is why I screwed them up in my previous post. He couldn't give me meds, just suggest them), I made her come with. I was told I had one of the worst cases of ADHD he has seen. My mom had to sit there and eat her words.

Delete, I am so sorry. You had to be one zombie little kid. Adderall and Ritalin are both very strong. I can't imagine taking them at the same time. And they're both appetite suppressants. I have to force myself to eat if I take it because I don't feel hungry for hours.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Poseidon said:


> Delete, I am so sorry. You had to be one zombie little kid. Adderall and Ritalin are both very strong. I can't imagine taking them at the same time. And they're both appetite suppressants. I have to force myself to eat if I take it because I don't feel hungry for hours.


You hit the nail on the head, Zombie. Thats exactly what i was. I weighted 65 pounds untill my 8th grade year when i hit 94. Though i got off the meds when i moved to middle school. They had lasting negative effects on me, some that i still deal with today. 

My therapist told my parents that my ADHD was so bad i was boarder line Autistic. Hence why they gave me so many drugs.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I still don't think that's reason for those two drugs together.Fully grown people (without ADHD) take Adderall to get high. Combining that with Ritalin is unbelievable. 

I have dysthymic disorder because of my ADHD. It was major depressive disorder at once point, then calmed itself down when I got ritalin. And sI don't have my mother constantly nagging on me and treating me and my brothers like crap anymore, so that's helped too. I only "crash" every few weeks rather than every other day now. Dysthymic disorder is a reduced version of major depressive disorder. You have kind of slight low feelings daily, but just kind of a dull thought or something, but you "crash" and just breakdown every once in a while. The longest you can go without one is 2 months. The ritalin also helps that. If I start "crashing", I take one and it evens out my mood. I won't lie, I use it to zombie-fy myself once in a while.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Thats terrible im sorry to hear that. Hopefully it gets better for you.

As odd as this might sound its nice to talk to someone who has been through a similar situation as me.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I don't think it's odd at all. I also like this a lot. You can skip through the whole "explaining and hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you" stage. I don't tell my friends when I'm mentally freaking out because they either think I'm joking or just don't know what to do. So I just don't tell them. _Especially_ the people I hear go "Oh, I'm being so ADD today" or "Are you being ADD today?". That is a *huge* pet peeve of mine.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

I wasn't able to see the video, but if I can give my general opinion... 

I think that over-medicating is a problem. I guess that over here it's mainly because of resources the public health care and because it's easier to dump you a pile of medicines than put you in the overstrained system to have therapy or other help like that. I think over-diagnosing isn't a big problem here but I guess it can be like that somewhere. We shouldn't put too strict norms on the 'average' person and what do you need to be and use common sense; is it really a disorder that needs medication or would be treated other way?

I do believe that there are illnesses and ailments that are based on physical/biological things and need medication, just something like schizoprenia. But if the problem comes from something that has happened to you, medicines _can_ help to keep things together if the situation is bad but it should be solved also otherwise. And may you don't need medication at all. If we count out purely physical/biological problems, I tend to think that mental problems are like fever; sometimes you need to take medicines to get your fever down so you can keep yourself together. But if you don't know the reason behind the problems, you need to find it out. Just like your system goes down if you doesn't listen it and find the reason behind long-term fever but just try to medicate it it, I believe your system can go down that way also with unsettled mental health problems if the reason is something purely non-biological and the only solution is medicines.


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## Hali (Jun 17, 2009)

I do think that over-medicating is a problem and some people may be able to get they help they need through therapists, however, some people really do need medication.

I battled depression and anxiety from about 13 and into my early 20's. I refused to use meds, instead opting to use more natural treatments. I did everything from therapy, psychologists, homeopathic medicines, vitamins, diet changes, self-help books. Nothing worked. Finally I reached a breaking point where my depression and anxiety was severely affecting my day-to-day life and as a last resort opted to try a prescribed anti-depression. My doctor helped me find one that worked for me (Zoloft) and the difference was night and day. I had NEVER felt as good as I did when I was on my Zoloft. Together, my doctor and I decided to decrease my meds and eventually stop and so far it's been very successful. It was like the medication jump started my mental healing. I may need to go back on it if things get rough, but if it helps me then that's what I'll do. The about Zoloft that helped me was that it allowed me to keep a clear head and gave me the tools to deal with issues in my life. It didn't take away my depression but rather gave me a way to deal and cope.

I'll admit, I didn't want to go on medication due to the stigma surrounding depression and medication. And I was not alone in feeling that way. Many many people neglect getting the help they need due to that stigma and it's sad. Having lost an uncle and a cousin to suicide caused by depression, I'll never take my depression lightly again and won't feel embarrassed or ashamed to turn to medication again - if that's what I need to make myself better.

The most important thing is to work carefully with the doctor to determine your mental state and whether or not you need medication. In an ideal world, everyone would be able to find the healing they need without drugs of any kind, however that just not the case. 

And mental illness / disorders can be very complex. It's impossible to paint everyone with the same brush and say 'that person shouldn't need medication' Real depression can be just as debilitating as other more serious disorders like schizophrenia, OCD, etc. and if left untreated can become worse and very unhealthy for the person suffering from it - whether that treatment be basic therapy or medication.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am on the boat with the others who said these medications have their place and can work wonders for some people. Other people don't do so well on them, but that doesn't mean that they are incorrect for everyone. I also agree that many people, especially children, and especially here in America, are extremely over medicated. I grew up with a boy that was put on several ADHD medications around the time we hit junior high (~age 12), I had known him my entire life and in a small town, you get to where you know how each parent manages their children. His mother spoiled him completely rotten, never set boundaries, and gave him whatever he wanted just so that he would be quiet. Then, she blamed his unmanageable behavior in school on ADHD and ADD. There are many instances just like that, where normal rebellious behavior from children is medicated instead of disciplined and that creates a lifetime of struggling for a normal life.

But, I have also seen the other end of the spectrum, with people who had serious mental/emotional disorders that went untreated for years and years. I was a correctional officer in a men's state prison and I can remember quite a few offenders who genuinely needed the medications they were on. 

There was one that pops right to the top of my head; so long as he was on his meds, he was one of the most respectful and 'normal' inmates you could meet. When he would talk to you, it was always "Yes, ma'am", "No, ma'am", "please", "thank you", "excuse me, ma'am", "may I please", etc. On the rare occasion that he would go off his meds, the difference in his personality was almost breathtaking. 

He would get extremely violent and tended to assault the first person he could get his hands on, regardless of whether it was an officer or another inmate. He would also get self destructive, whenever we had him in handcuffs, we could not stand him close to a wall or put him on his knees on the sidewalk. If he could bend down or turn his head and reach a solid surface, he would start beating his own head on whatever he could.

After we would get him back onto his meds, he was always genuinely apologetic because he regretted doing it, he just couldn't seem to stop himself without his meds. There were several times when he actually broke down and cried while apologizing to whatever officer he happened to assault that particular time.

That whole thing about the side effects and the adverse reactions is exactly why it is so important to have a doctor that you trust to do what is right for you and to communicate openly with them. If they suggest a drug, then people need to do their own research about it to find out if they want to risk the potential side effects of a particular drug to get the potential help it offers. If there is a particular drug that you don't want to take, there is often several other options of drugs that have similar results but with less or different side effects.

Not only that, but if you begin to have side effects that you worry aren't normal, it is imperative that you contact the prescribing doctor and tell them exactly what is going on. A good doctor will work with you to find the medication (or lack of) that you need to get you to the best place you can be. If they aren't willing to work with you and listen to you, then they aren't a good doctor and you need to find a different one anyway.

I also wanted to mention that the big lists of side effects are not a guarantee. They are all 'possible' side effects. One person may take a drug like Zoloft and have no side effects at all except for a tremendously improved quality of life. Another person may take the exact same drug for the exact same emotional issues and be devastated by it, suffer every side effect on the list, and end up suicidal. It's all about finding the right combination that will suit the individual person best.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Just wanted to add also that whilst the FDA will withdraw pharmaceutical agents that can be proven to be either dangerous (shows up as wrongful death type lawsuits) or ineffective (shows up as misleading advertising type lawsuits), it usually takes a significant amount of proof and generally a long time (i.e. years) to withdraw these agents from the market once they have been released.


Here is an interesting example of a new treatment for thyroid cancer developed by Astra Zeneca. Of 331 patients that were in the treatment group, five died from the severe side effects that resulted from the treatment. This drug has just _received_ FDA approval.


Of course one argument is that the patients were already in the final stages of a rare and fatal form of cancer and that severely compromises their health and ability to cope with the side effects.

None in the placebo group died.

FDA Approves Vandetanib for Medullary Thyroid Cancer 

AstraZeneca: Estimated profits of $1 billion a year from Vandetanib, thanks for playing. Don’t get me wrong, this drug appears to be effective and will possibly prolong the lives of many sufferers. But be aware that the ultimate discovery for a pharmaceutical company is a _treatment_, particularly one that a patient must rely on for the rest of their lives. They are not interested in cures as there is no profit to be made.

ETA: ErikaLynn may I ask what you do in the Pharma industry? Just generally interested!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

We own care homes for the Elderly mentaly ill. Drugs are sometimes the only thing keeping our staff safe.

We have one lady who is an absolute sweetheart when she has taken her meds, you can sit in the lounge with her and debate just about anything (politics, the state of the world, whether we should plant pansys or shrubs litteraly anything). If she doesnt take her drugs (and you have got to watch her take them as she doesnt believe she needs them) then she gets violent. The last time she didnt take them she smashed 4 windows with her stick, broke a member of staffs arm and beat anouther member of staff with her walking stick so badly that the member of staff had 2 weeks off work!

We have anouther lady who is realy brilliant if she takes her meds, functions totaly normaly, goes shopping, walks along the prom etc. If she doesnt take her meds (she is generaly quite good at taking them so instances are very rare) then the first sign is that she retreats to her room, crys floods of tears and doesnt know why. If that isnt spotted as what it is then she goes completly off the rails, has been found wandering the halls naked, organises her clothes all neatly folded and placed in piles in the corridors all over the house, the final stage (which if she gets to the running round naked stage then the final stage always follows) is when she puts herself up against the wall and stands and shakes, she is utterly unresponsive to the real world at this point and has to be sectioned under the mental health act which is the only way in which we can legally MAKE her do something or where we can do something without her consent (like force feed her or force her medications into her or have the hospital admit her and IV liquids into her). She has been known to stand up against a wall for days and will not eat and will not move for anything (so will pee and poo herself where she stands).

now you witness that (and the aftermath) tell me that drugs dont work!


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Poseidon said:


> This video annoys me. I'm only half way through and I'm legitimately angry. I have ADHD and I _guarantee_ you, ADHD does not just mean you cannot pay attention to some things. I have sat down and cried because I haven't been able to clean my own bedroom thanks to ADHD. I have to have things in lists and have an order in which those things have to be done. I can't just be thrown into a, say, messy bedroom and be told to clean it. There are too many things I could do and I think about all of them at the same time and then I get confused and really upset because I can't do it. There's an unbelievable how pathetic you feel about yourself when you can't clean up your own bedroom because you don't know what do to.
> 
> Last year, in my Psychology class, I did my final project on ADHD because it was something I already knew about, as a point in the project, I didn't take my ritalin (I only ever do when I have to get something done). It took me EIGHT HOURS to write a 2.5 page paper. It was supposed to be 3 pages. I ended up getting full credit because I did that.
> 
> ...


Po, this is so true. My son was diagnosed with ADHD at a young age. I was in disbelief. I didn't want him on Ritalin as I figured he was just being a normal child. When he told me how he felt about himself and how he hated himself at the age of 9 I knew something had to be done. At first he was offered extra help in school. Thank God for his teacher. She was so helpful and gave him time to have his "melt downs". But it became clear that his focus just was not there. 

So we decided it was time to talk to a doctor. He put my son on a low dose of Aderall first. When this didn't help he put him on Ritalin. I was so upset as a mother that my child was on such a drug. I was concerned about him being a zombie and it hurt me thinking he would be like that. But when he was not acting like a zombie but more focused and becoming a more confident student is when we all realized that it was helping not hindering. 

My son is now 12 and is a very smart and confident person. He knows when he needs his meds and when he doesn't. He will go without the meds during the summer and resume in the fall for school. He actually is getting ready to be weaned off completely. But will always have that as a safety net. Never easy to have ADHD. But your perspective on cleaning your room is exactly how he must feel. Thank you for that eye opener.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Po, thank you very much for sharing your story and information. You gave a couple of details that have really set me back and made me think. 

My daughter is 12 going on 13. She has always had attentioin and focus problems, but I have resisted the idea that she has ADD because 1.) She is not hyperactive. 3.) She can focus intently on something that interests or engages her - spend hours meticulously completing an art project or read something she enjoys. Previously we've concentrated on coping strategies - keeping to a set schedule and routine for schoolwork; having music on to block on other distractions, etc. She's always done better in a smaller class and with some one on one. 

However, this year it seems to be worse (puberty?) and she's really struggling in school. So your saying that the hyperactivity piece is more common with boys, and that chronic onset in girls is usally at puberty hit home. 

The part about your complete inability to clean your room also really hit home. She is definitely a kid who is paralyzed/overwhelmed by large, complex tasks. She can only manage if I break it down into steps for her, and does better if I stay with her and encourage her. 
I have never known how much of that is being a kid, and how much might be something else. 

So I think it's time to consider testing. Thank you for sharing your story. 

Now, on to the original topic. 

I think the maker of the video loses any and all credibility by the "can't see it or touch it" argument. As other posters have explained eloquently, some of the biochemical processes of mental illness are well understood and well documented. 

A more persuasive and credible video could have been made about over diagnosing and over prescribing. Situational depression is different than chronic chemical depression, and there's a whole range of mood disorders less severe than bipolar disorder. Situational depression and some of the lesser mood disorders do not necessarily require meds. And the control that Big Pharma has over the medical community is a large part of the overdiagnosing and overmedicating. 

I saw counselors/therapists on and off for years for family issues and situational depression. Some of them were unhelpful, some were good, one was great. At one point the great one said "I think we're dealing with something else here. I want you to consult with a psychiatrist." I eventually ended up on meds, which probably saved my life. Certainly improved my quality of life. I believe that's the correct progression - I started with self help, then LCSWs and pyschologists with talk and cognitive therapy and went to see a shrink on their recommendation. Too many times patients go directly to the MD without trying other methods, and not surprisingly, they end up medicated. 

However, just because there's overdiagnosing and overmedicating doesn't mean that there isn't real merit to some of the diagnosises and meds.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

You two are very welcome. 

It just bothers me to no end when people do no research on the actual symptoms of ADHD and it's effects on normal life when they decide their children have it. The majority of children medicated for it are 5 year olds on a sugar high and their parents zombie them out. Then inattentive ADHD people go completely unnoticed because you can't tell something is different about you because you can't know what it's like for other people unless you explain you experiences in great detail.

None of my friends nor my mother would understand what I meant when I explain that whole spiel I wrote before. My mom blamed it on lack of sleep. Yeah, the lack of sleep was caused by not being able to shut my brain off at night or staying up until the wee hours of the morning doing homework. 

I dunno. The way I see it, the world thinks ADHD is just being spacey or completely off-the-wall with energy, which means you need to be medicated until you're basically sedated. Which is as far away from the truth as possible. I, personally, am both Inattentive and Hyperactive. I explained the Inattentive part, which is the worse of the two in me, but as for Hyperactive, I just fidget. I love to fidget. I tap my feet all the time and I'm the annoying one who will click their pen all the time. I don't realize I'm fidgeting until someone points it out either. 

Just my two cents. :] And I'm glad you two do not fall into the category of "the rest of the world".


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