# Questions on working off board and business ethics



## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

Let me just run those numbers for you. Basically, you are being compensated around $2.69 per hour for your labor. (Based on 30 hours/week earning you $400 per month). Personally, I would want to earn at least minimum wage for my work. On top of that, you are "paying" top dollar for below average care (IMO) based on your story.

Does that help put it in perspective?
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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

As for lessons, if you like your coach and you think she will not hold it against you if/when you move your horses...then I don't see a problem with continuing your lessons. It might help lessen the blow when you pull your horse(s).
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## TwistedSerpent (Feb 18, 2010)

HorseMom1025 said:


> Let me just run those numbers for you. Basically, you are being compensated around $2.69 per hour for your labor. (Based on 30 hours/week earning you $400 per month). Personally, I would want to earn at least minimum wage for my work. On top of that, you are "paying" top dollar for below average care (IMO) based on your story.
> 
> Does that help put it in perspective?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Yes it does! I never thought of putting it in money terms instead of 'favor' terms, but it makes sense physically how I was feeling with how little I was getting.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

It can be hard to find an objective measure...but when we "barter" for lessons or board, I always try to compare dollars to dollars. It makes it fair for everyone.

For example, my husband built 3 jumps for my daughter's riding coach. We kept the receipts for the materials and tracked his hours. We calculated his labor at $10/hour. When he was done, we were able to "invoice" her coach with hard data and we received that much in training time in return. It's fair and everyone is happy.
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## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

Your completely getting overworked for your board payoff. Common problem in these situations.
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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Just to put it into a different view...lots (most?) 40+ hour per week barn jobs have a salary AND free board for 1 and even sometimes lessons on top of that. When I was a barn manager at a nice barn (board was $700+ per month), I was paid $10 per hour plus insurance with free board for my horse and 5 lessons a week.
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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A better arrangement is to have her pay you for hours worked and no less than minimum wage, then you write her a cheque for your board. The cheque is your record that your board is paid.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

My friend works off her board with my old BO. Her board is $300 per month. She cleans 60+ stalls and does waters every week, plus she leads dude string trail rides for $10 per ride (anywhere from 1 to 4 hour rides, usually multiple rides per day, but there aren't rides every day). She makes nowhere near minimum wage ($7.80/hr here in AZ).

I've noticed that smaller boarding stables (or ones in small towns) are more concerned about their bottom line than they are about being fair to those working for them.
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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Personally, I think it sounds like an increasingly bad situation and not worth your time.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

Honestly, there is nothing good about the situation you are in. Clearly the numbers are no where near in your favor, let alone the poor service you are receiving from the owners. You sound WAY better off bringing them home and doing the same amount of work for no board, and far less drama. I was an assistant barn manager and was working for about $9/hr, but was offered no sort of boarding arrangement (I would not have wanted it anyways) but was also expected to ride their horses. I didn't really have a problem with it until I caught the owner bad-mouthing me because I have a western riding background as opposed to hunter/jumper, when I had more professional schooling in my discipline than she had in her own. Smaller barns tend to be, as Drafty mentioned, far more concerned about themselves than their boarders or their employees. In fact, the barn manager there worked 7 days a week and was always on call, with no benefits, and could not keep her horse there.

Anyways, I would get out of there as soon as possible for a boarding situation, but keep her around as a trainer if she works for you and your horse.


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## TwistedSerpent (Feb 18, 2010)

When we first agreed to help she told us that she's looking for commitment and dedication from people she wants to offer full time payed jobs giving lessons and apprenticing on horse training, however the whole business depends on if she's able to get an indoor arena built before winter. It's nearly September so that gives a few more months before the ground freezes and last we heard there were still no concrete plans even in place. Us being so new to everything really weren't sure what's fair or not as far as board rates and such other then that's its really wearing on us, and if this is how we as staff members are going to be treated its not one I want to be ilvolved in.
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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

A covered arena (in our area) costs between $50k-$200K. If she hasn't secured financing, it probably won't happen.
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## TwistedSerpent (Feb 18, 2010)

Last we heard they were working on money for the down payment but that was a month ago, which brings up another issue - the lack of communication.
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I left my old barn because of the same situation. Not so much the hostility part, but overworked. First of all, I will say I get along great with the BOs and most of the boarders and they BOs did really help me out for a while, but that's a completely different story. 

Anyway, outside board for them was $385. If you were an employee, who were high school and college students, except for one full time person, you got $100 off down to $285 and we were paid what was supposed to be $8/hour, but only being paid for 3 hours, so the pay was fixed regardless of how long you were actually there. The problem was it never only took 3 hours. There were days when I'd be there for 6-7 because sh*t was always hitting the fan with something. Equipment breaking down, weather, cranky boarders, etc. This was in addition to being a full-time college student with another part time job. 

I had left for the summer and when I got back, a girl I worked with said she left because they weren't giving her the $100 discount anymore because they had just lost several inside boarders so it wasn't worth my time to try to figure out how to pay almost $800 a month just to have somewhere for my horses to hang out because I'd be like you: too tired to even do anything with them. 

The facility and most of the people were awesome, but I'm broke yo.


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## BossHoss (Nov 11, 2011)

OMG. Sounds like my ex-barn. 
They would literally pay us $20 for a 6a-6p day, and expect us to be on call for any stupid little thing that happened. Obviously, I was too tired to get to enjoy my horse, or there were lessons/things going on from 6-9p and everyone had to be out of the barn by 9p. 

NOPE! It's not okay. You're getting used. I hope you can find a better place to go, or that she starts paying you reasonably. :C


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I taught lessons for a woman who paid me $7 of the $45 that the students paid. I did absolutely everything, from helping students tack up, to teaching the lesson, to the cool down and untacking. I answered all questions and did all teaching... Naturally, that didn't last long.


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## TwistedSerpent (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks everyone! Your insights have been very helpful. Just an update on the situation, I tried several times to have a heart to heart with the owner to voice our concerns and give some advice, it ended up being all about what she needed for the business and nothing about trying to help those of us who want to help her. I later find out that she made comments on how a new girl was much better and did much more then we ever did, saying specifically that she worked more and expected less then us. Needless to say, my boys are coming home on Wednesday! Its been a mad rush getting everything together and trying to come up with the money, but it will be so nice being able to see the horses whenever I go outside. It's a huge leap for me suddenly being on my own with their full care especially with winter being so close, but I'm ready to take it on.


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## BarrelRacer724 (Dec 12, 2010)

Glad to hear! I think you will find it to be very rewarding!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Congrats on bringing them home <3


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