# Four-year-old draft cross critique



## Klassic Superstar (Nov 30, 2009)

Wow he's really looking good!!
Question, do you think he could put a few more pounds on him? He looks like he could use it to me. That's the only thing that points out to me besides him being so handsome!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Klassic Superstar said:


> Wow he's really looking good!!
> Question, do you think he could put a few more pounds on him? He looks like he could use it to me. That's the only thing that points out to me besides him being so handsome!


He actually is in good flesh, he's just in a growth spurt. He gets fed three times a day (grass hay for breakfast and lunch and alfalfa for supper...not sure exactly how much, as he's boarded).

Another one just for grins and giggles. Pre-bath and roach. He's doing his best friesian impression. Lol 








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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Maybe I've missed it somewhere, but what cross exactly is he? 

He is a nice 50/50 colouring. His bone seems to fit his body. However, his head appears much too large for his body. I see this in many Friesian crosses. His neck also seems rather short and thin. His body and depth, just doesn't seem to fit his large rear. In fact, he appears as two different horses. Much more horse in the back half, than the front. Put your hand over each half of the pic, and you'll see what I mean. 
He has an incredibly long, sloping croup, which I don't like at all. Even allowing for his slightly long feet, his pasterns seem long and a bit weak. In some pics he stands ok, but in one he appears weak and over at the knee. He toes out, but that's not a huge problem really.
I would think this boy has a lot more maturing to do. Knowing his background and exactly how old he is, would help. Was he just four or coming five now? 

Lizzie


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

He is a Percheron/paint cross (fugly, weak APHA sire and fairly decent Percheron dam). He will be four on May 7th.

His head has always been disproportionately large. He's also not in work, so his neck is undermuscled.
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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Well he is very young and still has a few more years to mature, according to how tall he is destined to become. With work and maturity, I think he will improve and his body will catch up to his head a bit. No doubt his neck will also improve.

I tend to think by now, he shouldn't be picky about his farrier. According to how long you have had him, his ground work should be well underway. You _should _also know exactly how much food he is actually getting, boarded or not. Difficult I know, if he is boarded in a herd situation. 

Lizzie


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

FeatheredFeet said:


> Well he is very young and still has a few more years to mature, according to how tall he is destined to become. With work and maturity, I think he will improve and his body will catch up to his head a bit. No doubt his neck will also improve.
> 
> I tend to think by now, he shouldn't be picky about his farrier. According to how long you have had him, his ground work should be well underway. You _should _also know exactly how much food he is actually getting, boarded or not. Difficult I know, if he is boarded in a herd situation.
> 
> Lizzie


His ground work is done, but he's decided that he's forgotten every ounce of manners he has ever had. As for farriers...he doesn't trust men and there's only one female farrier in my area and he hates her (used her once and it was just all bad). So, we use the one male farrier he actually will tolerate (we've used a stud chain and we've even Aced him, but I prefer to use the farrier he likes so I don't have to do any of that). I can go in his stall with no halter or lead rope, pick up all four feet and mess with them with no problems at all. Someone else tries it and they're liable to get kicked.

As for his feed, sometimes he gets fed in turnout with the other geldings, sometimes in his stall. In turnout, he's the lead gelding, so no kne runs him off his feed (hes also the tallest by about a hand). He's actually about a 4.5 on the body scale. No ribs showing, his hips/butt aren't nearly as sunken/prominent as they look in those pics. He has shot up 2" in the last couple of months, though, so his body is playing catch-up. I'm considering adding alfalfa mix pellets and Strategy to his evening feed, though.
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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

He really doesn' look 4, I would turn him away for a year to mature. (or continue with ground work)


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Clava said:


> He really doesn' look 4, I would turn him away for a year to mature.


Turn him away? He's not getting another year off.
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

He doesn't look too immature to me, just somewhere along the line mother nature lost balance...all mass went into front and back, and the middle didn't get its share. But he will grow into that head and butt;-)
If he's on hay only, I'd give him a vit/ min supplement or a ration balancer, with a handful of alfalfa pellets, soaked, instead of the strategy.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

I can't wait to see what he looks like when he's done growing. If you cover up his head, he looks way more balanced.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> He doesn't look too immature to me, just somewhere along the line mother nature lost balance...all mass went into front and back, and the middle didn't get its share. But he will grow into that head and butt;-)
> If he's on hay only, I'd give him a vit/ min supplement or a ration balancer, with a handful of alfalfa pellets, soaked, instead of the strategy.


I'm going to have to look into supplementing him with something. He was on alfalfa (three flakes...not sure exact weight as the BO didn't weigh it ever) twice a day at our old barn. At the new one he gets grass morning and noon, then alfalfa for supper. I know the new BO doesn't weigh it either, just goes by feel. The "ribs" that people are seeing are a trick of the light. You can't even feel his ribs at all (we curried him for a good forty-five minutes before bathing him and I'm pretty sure even my non-horsey, but very astute, BF would have noticed if ribs were showing).
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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm innocent....I didn't say he was thin....
Alfalfa flakes can vary a lot!! I have them between 4 and 9 lbs, even sometimes within a bale flakes vary, but not that much. 
Grass hay is even more of a difference. 
I got me a little fish scale and randomly weigh the flakes, or my filled nets. 
It would be a good idea, tho, to get a basic idea of what his calorie intake is, and if it's only as reference for later.
The vit/min or RB is helpful. Too much missing in hay nowadays.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

DHW, that wasn't directed at you. It was an "in general." I should have gave it its own paragraph. Sorry.

Gonna have to do some research on calorie intake and such. He's grown like a weed lately.
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

He's just a lean muffin. Once he starts working his muscles some more he'll look overall better. He should definitely get more than hay though. Hay lacks a lot of nutrients that we have to supplement in.


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## draftgrl (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't mean to take away from the OP but am curious as to what a good vitamin supplement would be to give as a general rule on a horse that is not used real hard. Say a trail riding horse. 

And, Aires is a very pretty boy, hope he grows into that head of his!


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

Depends on the type of hay, how it was grown, and what nutrients it has.
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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

draftgrl said:


> And, Aires is a very pretty boy, hope he grows into that head of his!


You and me, both. That's a draft-size halter he's wearing.
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## draftgrl (Jan 8, 2011)

Oh my.....Well, at least you can intimate (sp) the city folk with him! That's always fun to do


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

To get a general idea for estimating how many Mcals an average horse needs for maintenance:

Body weight in pounds divided by 2.2= body weight in kilograms
Body weight in kg divided by 100, times 3.3 = approximately Mcals he needs

If you want a horse to gain weight, you use the desired body weight to figure it out. If the horse is working, growing, or lactating, he (or she) is going to need more Mcals.

**Information taken from _The Horse Nutrition Handbook_ by Melyni Worth.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Drafty, you've always known I love Aires, he's Rafe's "brotha-from-anotha-motha" so to speak LOL.

Yep, he's a bit on the lean side but that's to be expected in a growing horse and better a touch lean than too fat (like mine :lol. As far as basic conformation goes regarding things that aren't going to change as he matures, it looks like his shoulder is a touch upright and he may end up being a bit long in the back as well. And, of course, his head will likely always be on the big side LOL, curse of a draft parent.

Those are the only bad things I can really spot about him. He's got great bone and he doesn't appear that he'll be overly bulky when he's grown. Just guessing, but I suspect he might just look like a very large stock horse when he's done instead of a small draft.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> DHW, that wasn't directed at you. It was an "in general." I should have gave it its own paragraph. Sorry.
> 
> Gonna have to do some research on calorie intake and such. He's grown like a weed lately.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There is a formula, easy to figure out for horses up to 1320 lbs/600kg:

McalDE/day =1.4+0.03x(kg body weight)

Horses over 600kg its a bit more complicated....
Example: 
450kg(990lbs) requires 14.9 Mcals for maintenance
750kg(1650lbs), like a Belgian, requires 22.11Mcal

A lb alfalfa has 1.12Mcals, grasshay 0.9Mcals

That's all for maintenance, for work and growth, it will be more, of course.

Smart book also says, given the possibility, a horse will consume sufficient feed for maintenance, unless it's low quality feed, of course.


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

Well... He got a little shorted on the overall balance department... As seems to often be the case with Draft/Stockhorse crosses (though there are some nice ones, many seem coarse looking, with large heads, small necks, longer backs and drafty pelvic angles) 

In this guy's case... He has some years to fill out, so he will probably become more substantial as time goes on (this is often true of unworked drafts in general)... But, he got the draft head, a shorter draft neck (though he got a decent neckset ), I think his shoulder is - overall - decent... The photos make it hard to tell, but he's not overly steep, nor is he particularly closed in angle and the neckset he has should give him more range of motion than a lot of drafts get. He does seem to have a long back, long loin, and his LS placement looks too far back, then his pelvic angle looks steep (some of this is because he is resting his leg in every shot... But I think he just is steep too) with him standing as he is, I can't tell for sure what his hind leg set is like. He has nice bone.

Overall he's not the smoothest looking horse, I sincerely doubt he's destined for a Grand Prix career, but, he is probably a tough, hardy horse who may prove quite handy as his training goes along. 

We used a number of these crosses (most looked a lot like him, conformation wise, too) when I worked with outfitters... They often made reliable mounts for mountain riding, could truck along all day, be used as pack animals, skid logs and pull wagon - generally just "useful" to have around.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks, TLU. I'm not a Grand Prix rider and never will be, so it's okay that Aires would never be able to compete at that level. :lol: He just needs to be a good, all-around horse (a little jumping, a little eventing maybe, a lot of trail riding definitely).

Hard to believe this is the same horse as a 2.5yo.








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## TurkishVan (Feb 11, 2013)

I was just going to echo the feed comment.

I used to have my filly (shown in the picture) at a place where I wasn't told how much she was fed. Then one day I helped with chores in the morning, afternoon, and night. You think the "fed 3 meals a day" thing sounds great until you see how little they're getting. My filly received a flake in the morning (which varied by the person giving it, but was usually about 2 inches thick, or 2-3 lbs), half a bale in the afternoon (that she fought over with 4-5 other young horses), and another 2-inch thick flake at night. I calculated out what she was probably getting per day, and it was probably about 10 lbs. She was hard to handle, did not listen well, and was just naughty in general. I switched barns, upped her feed to 18 lbs of good alfalfa a day, and lo! After 2-3 weeks, her attitude and manners were better than that of some of the 20-year-old horses at our barn. 

Personally, I'd rather have a fat horse that receives all the needed nutrients at the time they're actually needed, than a lean horse that ends up having health problems later on in life. I'm sure you know how that goes! We gotta make sure our babies have adequate nutrition early on, or we'll have all sorts of crappy problems later on down the line. 

Yours sounds like a trooper that's willing to fight for his food. I was told that my filly kicked the crap out of the other horses, whilst trying to hog the hay. She still didn't get the amount she really needed. If it makes you feel any better, you could always ask them to delegate a specific portion, like 8 lbs, to his stall. That way you know he's at least getting that much per day. Knowing that my horse isn't hungry ALL the TIME gives me peace of mind!


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