# Is posting supposed to be effortless?



## Dresden (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't have a lot of advice but I have only been riding english since april and no, posting is not effortless. Or at least it isn't for me yet. I get as much of a workout as my horse does, maybe more. As you gain more of the right muscles for it, it gets easier but months down the line it is not effortless for me( I am 31 so maybe it is effortless for children. That I don't know.) 

Don't worry about the time. Developing proper form etc is harder when you are older. Children are more flexible and they seem to pick up riding quicker. Just don't compare yourself to others. Compare to yourself. Are YOU improving? That's what matters.

I reset from a blown posting trot by sitting a few beats then picking it up again. But I rode western for years so sitting a trot is more natural to me and easier than posting it. You may be better off bringing the horse to a walk then restarting if you're truly bouncing all over.

Posting has been one of the hardest things for me to learn. And I rode for 10 years when I was younger. It takes time. You sound like you are doing quite well for the level you are at. Just give it time and patience and you'll get it. Once it clicks, it clicks is what people keep telling me. You'll get there. Just don't get discouraged 

Can you take hour long lessons? Or ride more than once a week? I struggled a lot more picking it up when I only took one lesson a week. Sorry I can't be more help!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Posting isn;t natural. It takes time to learn and make it feel natural. I totally remember how I would "catch" it for a few steps, then lose it, then it would all fall apart and I'd be bumped all over the place. This is just to say not to be discouraged; it WILL get easier!

As far as recoving the rythm, if you can do it without coming to a walk, all the better. But if you need the walk, then go for it . What does you instructor say?

When you "fall apart" balance wise, the trick is to NOT fall forward into the fetal position, thought this is what you will naturally want to do. IF you can try hard to sit up over your own pelvis , stay calm and try to find that rythm, maybe count out the steps and it might help you to find the rythm again. Once you go forward into the fetal position, you have basically "given up", so best to just start again.

Not to worry, it gets easier. Take some video now, because in a few months you'll laugh at it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm a guy who started at 50. We're rare, but we do exist.

Anyways...posting isn't totally effortless, but it might not be as hard as some make it.

First, don't worry about diagonals. They only apply while in a turn, and it is OK to post on the wrong diagonal while learning the rhythm. When in a turn, posting on the correct diagonal makes it feel better for both you and the horse, but I'd save it for later.

Second, you let the horse's motion push you up. Then you apply a bit of pressure so you skip the first beat beat and return down with the second. If trotting is a two-beat rhythm, it is up with one, skip, come down with two, up with one, skip, down with two. For guys in particular, it should be a gentle thing. My 13 year old daughter, like most of the young girls I see, posts like a jack-in-the-box: way up, stand in the stirrups, then way down.










Think of your legs as shock absorbers. I like to ride with my stirrups as long as I can stomach, to the point it almost feels like I'm going to lose them. When I first started, I was told my toes went in the stirrup. That is wrong. Stand on flat ground and rise on your toes a bit. The center of the front of your foot will be your balance point, and THAT is what goes in the stirrup - and I like it on the forward edge of the stirrup. That makes it easier to keep your stirrups.

Why is this important? Because most guys have tight legs and hips. If we shorten the stirrups to our comfort zone, our legs & hips will never stretch out and get loose enough. Your tendons & ligaments, if they are like mine, are tight enough that the horse will read it as tension. Also, the tension will make you bounce more. Long term, it is the weight of your legs and the friction of your thighs that will keep you in the saddle.

And if you mostly stay in the saddle, then you won't be thrown as high by the horse's motion, and you won't have as far to come down, and it becomes less effort to post. Eventually, you should be able to post without stirrups - but I've been riding 3 years, and THAT is work.

I don't know if you are riding English or Western. I am an oddball here. I think it is better in the long run to learn to sit the trot first, and then learn posting. And no, I don't know how anyone learns to sit the trot in an English saddle. With a western saddle, you can always hold on to the horn while bouncing, until the bouncing loosens you up enough and your legs stretch enough that you pretty much stop bouncing. At least, bouncing high and uncontrollably!

I started English and was taught posting as a way to avoid bouncing the trot, which is how all sitting trots start for a guy over 25. And most guys under.

But a new rider relies on his stirrups for balance and staying on the horse. That is 100% wrong, but very few riders are given the option of riding without stirrups their first lesson.

In reality, your stability comes from letting the weight of your legs pull your butt into the saddle. Long legs lower your center of gravity, and the lower your CG, the harder it is to fall off when the horse freaks. Relaxed legs help absorb bounce and give the horse confidence that you are not scared. I think tension = fear in most horses' minds.

My riding sucked for two years because I tried to use the stirrups for my weight and crouched on the horse when we sent faster. That meant tense legs, more bounce, higher CG, perched up higher on the horse...all things that destroy your balance.

But posting, when you are starting, USES weight in the stirrups. In time, you won't - but I didn't learn how to just SIT in a saddle until I switched to a western/australian saddle and stopped posting and learned to settle my weight onto my butt. Over a period of time, that stretched my legs and hips, and now I can finally start riding with my seat and not my legs. And once a person can do that, it becomes easy to use the legs a little while posting without relying on them to carry you in the stirrups.

Gotta go...will try to explain it better later.

Good luck, and don't give up. It IS much harder to learn when older, but we have the advantage of then learning WHY we do things. :wink:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I just took an English lesson for the heck of it and discovered I'd much rather continue with my Western Pleasure. I grew up riding English and could post all day and 1/2 the night and never break a sweat......Yeah, well, 30 years ago anyway. NOT so much anymore, that posting was WORK! It does get better though, and yes, when it's right you do get tossed up by the beat and then sit down for the next one and you learn to be able to feel which hind foot is coming forward to tell you the diagonal and it all becomes 2nd nature. Honest!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

bsms- perfect post. I have very little to add. I do have one thing to say, however.

I actually completely and 100% agree one one thing that you said made you 'odd'. I think that a sitting trot should be taught before the posting trot. Why? Once you've gotten into the habit of posting, (particularely if you are a beginner) you loose the flexibility of the stomache muscles as well as the ability to disengage your hips when you learn to post. Going from posting to sitting, your body automatically begins to 'block' moving, and stays very ridgid. This is what happened to me. I was taught to post from the beginning, and when I began learning to sit a trot, ride bareback, and canter- I was just about incapable of loosening enough to sit. It took me a shamefully long amount of time to learn to canter, for this reason.

OP- I say this because, if possible- I think it would be best for you to ask your instructor if you can learn to sit the trot. Not only will it help you develope the loose but controlled (a bit of an oxymoron, I know, but once you try- you'll understand what I mean) position needed for more advanced riding, but it will help you when learning to post because you will be able to balance, collect, and reinterate yourself when you get off of the rythem when posting. You'll be able to simply sit until you can feel the impulsions beneath you, then work of for those to establish your post.

I hope what I've said makes sense, and I wish you luck!


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## Vee2 (Sep 25, 2011)

Oh wow thanks for all the tips. I know it can sometimes take a lot of time to type up long replies so I appreciate it. I'll have to read everything again and see what I can apply next session. 

I guess what I meant was not totally "effortless" but whether it's not as much of a struggle if you're able to catch the bump up like an assist to get up.

My wife did take a video of my attempt to trot but I found this video on youtube that looks almost like my attempts. I go up then bump twice while down on the saddle, then up then bounce twice again, too slow to get back up to stay in sync with the count. I don't hold on to the pommel but I think she does on this one. 





 
Somebody posted a tip in this video's comments to keep the hands somewhat forward of the saddle. I remember that the times when I was able to balance better and get in sync was when I did this. 

I know I'll get it and that it's just like riding a bike. Something just has to click once. I thought it clicked a couple times in my last session but just had trouble maintaining it. I could reset properly. Most of the time there are one or two other riders in the ring with me that the instructor keeps an eye on. Then after the session there's a next group of kids to take lessons so I'm not able to do an after-action review or Q&A with my instructor. 

She usually calls from across the ring to me to shout "keep your heels down". I know this but she sees me after I've blown the trot and having trouble recovering. She also tells me not to overthink it and just to concentrate on the up down up down motion. I need a little bit more info than that. She might be used to young kids who instinctively get it after a couple of sessions without too much explaining. For example she never explained the 1-2 1-2 1-2 beat to me. I learned that over the internet.

I'm not discouraged (yet), I just need more tips and inside info. I know that it's just a matter of developing the muscle memory for the right motions. My thighs are aching less and less too. It was hard for me to drive my stick shift car after a lesson. I ached working the gas, clutch, and brake pedals!

Thanks again all. I'm a sponge soaking in all your tips and wisdom


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Some great advice you have here. Its not effortless but its not really building muscles either. You can get on a horse after years and still post naturally. Once you have it down you never really think about it. It's like learning how to drive a manual (stick shift) car. 

It will come just keep trying. Sometimes I actually prefer to think as forward and back rather than up and down. Because of the angle of the leg you don't really rise "up" you rise forward. Maybe imagine your hips going forward and back with the strides. You don't have to get high out of the saddle, just a little. Also remember that rising doesn't come from the stirrups or the heels. If you are losing your heels when you lose time, perhaps your "heel" rising is part of your problem. People can rise without stirrups and bareback so focus less on rising out of your foot and more on rising with your thighs.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

If the horse is smooth and your saddle is a good fit for both (meaning you stay very balanced) then I have to say yes, posting does feel effortless. At least to me. BUT it doesn't come overnight and indeed you need practice. BTW, posting is very hard when you are off-balance (whenever I have a saddle that doesn't fit me I have issues posting, or even seat the trot).

Welcome to the Forum, BTW!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

The rider in the video you posted is posting too slowly for her horse, which is what is forcing her out of rhythm every few seconds. The key is learning to pay attention to which pair of legs (fore right, rear left, or fore left, rear right) you're moving to. The 1-2, 1-2, 1-2 beat that you're speaking of applies to both horse AND rider. On one, the first set of legs reach out on the horse, and you propell yourself up. On two, the second set of legs reach out and you sink down. If you feel like you've come out of sync with the horse, simple sit a '1-2' (so you'll feel bump-bump) then rise again on 1.

This is a fantastic video for beginners who are learning to jump. 




The riders leg is in very poor position and moves a lot (it should be locked around the horse's barrel) but the fact that it goes in slow motion in both directions can potentially help you a lot when you're looking for that 1-2 beat. Up on one, down on two. Up, down. Up, down. Chant it if you must.

If you're legs are still not up to the constant impulsion that they must use, I'd advise in practicing while maintaining a walk. (your instructor might look at you funny, however!) This way you can put your full attention on the rhythm, and not worry about controlling the horse's speed (any well trained lesson horse has no problem with walking without breaking into a trot). doing 'squats' at home, might also help improve your muscle, using the same 1-2 beat.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'll guess you are learning from a jump perspective, if the video posted reminds you of you. Just a couple of comments based on the video...

Notice how far forward her feet are. That makes decent posting almost impossible. 

If your heels are under your hip, then you ride vertically and your stirrups and feet stay underneath you. Your leg is unfolding to move you up. You pause (and I still say the less you rise, the less you come down), then return, using your legs to slow your descent. When starting, you will rely on your stirrups. Later, you will learn to use your thighs - but that will come AFTER learning the basic rhythm.

If, sitting still on a still horse, your feet are forward of your hips, then posting will require a large movement forward, and you have to lean with your shoulders (like she does) to get your CG over your forward stirrups. All that shifting balance points takes time and also moves your stirrups, leaving you with an unstable body, high CG, flopping stirrups, shoulders & feet moving...and you will be all over the place.

Gravity wants to put your butt in the lowest part of the saddle. Gravity wants your stirrups to hang vertically. If you watch a horse & saddle trotting without a rider, the stirrups don't move.

You want gravity to be your friend, not your enemy. That means you need a saddle that fits you. Before the horse takes a step forward, have your instructor check your leg position and body position. If it isn't right then, it won't get better with movement!.

If your butt is in the lowest part of the saddle, and your feet in the stirrups, are the stirrup straps anywhere close to vertical? If not, you'll be fighting the saddle while trying to learn basic riding, and it will take 10 times as long.

Next, look at how much bend there is in your leg. If it is bent as much as hers in the video, lengthen your stirrups. A LOT! Shorter stirrups and bent legs are a part of jumping, but it is something you learn AFTER you learn riding the flats - and some of us don't choose to learn at all.

With a bent leg, and legs like mine, you cannot get the stirrup under your hip without raising your heels. Try it while sitting at your computer. Stand, put a small bend at the knee, and try to have your heel under your hip with the heel down. At 50, that was tough enough for me! Now sit, bend your leg to 90 degrees, and move your heel under your hip. The heel WILL RISE. It must.

Maybe a 12 year old girl can get away with it, but a grown man will not. Your instructor can shout heels down, but if your leg is bent much and your heel is under your hip, the heel will not be down.

Look at the pictures below:




























They have a lot less bend, but their heels are still level. But you can post just fine like this. And because I now prefer western, I'll 'post' a picture from the old west:










"_A day herder keeping an eye on the grazing herd. LS Ranch, Texas_, 1907"

Shorter stirrups are for jumping. That comes after learning to ride well on the flat. FWIW, the best book I've seen on riding is "American Military Horsemanship" - it has the last US Cavalry manual as its second half. Like any Army manual, it is written from an engineering perspective, so it doesn't ask you to feel like a tree growing, or that your arms be a hose pouring water in your horse's mouth, or any of that...well, I guess that helps some people. Not me.

Amazon.com: American Military Horsemanship: The Military Riding Seat of the United States Cavalry, 1792 through 1944 (9781420855524): James Ottevaere: Books


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## Vee2 (Sep 25, 2011)

Can't thank you enough, this absolutely makes sense. I learned a lot from all of you.

It's funny you mention the cavalry manual. I've watched a lot of John Wayne films lately, admiring how they ride the horses  I know it's not English but still, cavalry, horses, good stuff.


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

Vee2, just want to say welcome to the forum from another older member. I have been riding 3 years now and remember learning to post, and it really does become automatic once you get it. As someone else said, it is like learning to ride a bike. Once you get it, you never forget. 

I have always rode western and always post the trot because it is more comfortable for me and I want the exercise. When I ride bareback I sit the trot to work on my balance. I also agree with a previous post that suggested the movement is slightly up and forward with the hips rather than straight up. As a beginner I would rise straight up and was corrected. I'm sure it looked ridiculous, too! Good luck with your lessons!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Vee2 said:


> Can't thank you enough, this absolutely makes sense. I learned a lot from all of you.
> 
> It's funny you mention the cavalry manual. I've watched a lot of John Wayne films lately, admiring how they ride the horses  I know it's not English but still, cavalry, horses, good stuff.


 

John Wayne was one of the few Hollywood actors who really could ride. Love to watch him ride, even as an older guy, he had a very real life seat. I mean he rode effortlessly, but in a way that was not rigid or showy. He was pretty big and tall. Having long legs is a clear advantage , as BSMS said, because your legs draping down the sides of the horse provide the lower center of gravity and the adhesion that helps keep you in the saddle. Western riding is more closely related to Dressage than Hunt seat.

Do you happen to ski? Posting sometimes feels a bit like skiing moguls; your legs kind of expand and contract under you while your upper body remains stable.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

For starters, forget about the 7 year old who's jumping. I started riding much later in life too. Our bodies are in the slow boat in terms of learning new things. At the beginning stages, posting is probably the most frustrating and awkward feeling motion to attempt to learn. Some horses are easier to post on than others, ironically they're the ones who are hard to sit. It's kind of like math. It makes no sense at first, and then one day it clicks. 

From that video, it does look like that saddle may not be doing you any favors. It puts your legs out in front of you a little (chair seat) which makes it hard for anyone to post. To check if your leg is lined up properly under you, stand straight up in the saddle at the halt and find your balance over your feet without having to hold onto the horse's neck. That's where your lower leg should be when you're riding. Try using the back of your calves to apply a little friction to keep your lower leg on the horse. 

When it does fall apart, if you can sit the trot, just sit a few beats until you're ready to try posting again. If not, just come back to a walk, regroup and try again when you're ready. 

To answer your original question, yes, posting does feel effortless once it's being done well, but don't expect that lightbulb moments for many years. It involves the hat trick of a properly forward moving, balanced horse and balanced rider. The horse's motion simply moves your hips forward and you actually use your core to regulate that pushing motion. It's really cool, but again, don't worry about that. With what you want to do, simply getting the mechanics down will do just fine.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

After going a year without any pictures of me riding, my wife took some today. I can see where I've made a lot of progress, and also how very far I have to go. I swear that it takes me 10 times as much work to go 1/10 the distance...










My feet are more forward than I'd like, but that is pretty typical with an Australian saddle. It would help if I didn't stick my feet so far into the stirrups - that's a good 2 inches.

I did some posting today, but you can see from the position of the poley that it has to be a pretty subtle movement for me. To do it, I have to bring my feet back some from this photo and let my legs unfold. Any significant forward movement would run me into the poleys (mickey mouse ears in front of the thighs). If/when I do bring my heels back some, they also go higher - about level when they are under me.

I'm not big on mental imagery, but I tend to think of my legs as coil springs, unwinding, pausing, then collapsing. Otherwise, I pivot from the knee and try to move above my knee. I'm not trying to straighten my legs and stand in the stirrups, balancing on them. That is what I do when I think of my legs as a set of levers. But I'm just uncoiling my springy legs, pause, return. Since I'm not working towards jumping, my goal is to get my butt off of the saddle while leaving my jeans still in contact.

My gelding is hard to post when he jogs. His motion is too smooth and it really is easier to sit his jog. Posting at that pace requires me to do all the work. As he speeds up, he becomes choppier and it is easier to get the upward thrust from him. As he trots closer to his top trotting speed, it becomes easier to post than to sit.

Good luck on your next lesson, and let us know how it goes!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

MyBoyPuck said:


> For starters, forget about the 7 year old who's jumping. I started riding much later in life too. Our bodies are in the slow boat in terms of learning new things. At the beginning stages, posting is probably the most frustrating and awkward feeling motion to attempt to learn. Some horses are easier to post on than others, ironically they're the ones who are hard to sit. It's kind of like math. It makes no sense at first, and then one day it clicks.
> 
> *From that video, it does look like that saddle may not be doing you any favors. It puts your legs out in front of you a little (chair seat) which makes it hard for anyone to post. To* check if your leg is lined up properly under you, stand straight up in the saddle at the halt and find your balance over your feet without having to hold onto the horse's neck. That's where your lower leg should be when you're riding. Try using the back of your calves to apply a little friction to keep your lower leg on the horse.
> 
> ...


I think the video of the girl on the lungeline was one he pulled off of youtube as being "like" his problem with posting.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Vee2 said:


> My wife did take a video of my attempt to trot but I found this video on youtube that looks almost like my attempts. I go up then bump twice while down on the saddle, then up then bounce twice again, too slow to get back up to stay in sync with the count. I don't hold on to the pommel but I think she does on this one.


This is the video I was referring to. It just looks like he is behind his own center of gravity to me.


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## Vee2 (Sep 25, 2011)

Here's a sideview shot I found that my daughter took from afar. This was from about a month ago. I guess my legs are too bent.

(click for bigger)


Thanks again all for the tips. I can't wait for the next session to try them out.

Tinyliny, I do ski (or did, before kids). I can see the analogy. Thanks.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Dude, you're doing fine! At that point, and only somewhat less so now, I looked like a large sack of potatoes tossed randomly on the horse's withers, with arms and legs sprouting in various directions!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

If it helps, I was told that men usually turn out to have better seats and posting motion since they have to sit more upright to protect their man parts.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Posting, is rising trot I'm assuming?
The advice given is superb.

You will more than likely grasp with your legs to pull yourself up at the moment, but your leg muscles will develop to make it easier, promise!

There will be a day when it just... clicks!! I found saying 1,2,1,2 in time with the horses movement really helpful, just try and say it in your head so you don't sound like a loon 

Secondly, if you loose the beat, don't stop the horse, try and regain your balance. If possible, try not to use the horses reins to pull you up. Also, standing in the stirrups without posting can be a good way for you to feel the horses' movement. 

It just takes a lot of practise. I find sitting trot a lot easier to find and learn the movement of the horse however!


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## Vee2 (Sep 25, 2011)

*Just an update*

I blinked and just like that my original post turned out to be over three years ago. 

Well to update, I tried a few more lessons in 2011 as schedule allowed (roughly once a month, not enough). Failed miserably and gave up for a year. Then the following summer (2012), my then 8 year old daughter wanted to give it a try and of course got the whole posting the trot on her first or second lesson, and was hooked. I got talked back into trying again by my daughter’s trainer and eventually got the hang of posting the trot and diagonals. 

Fast forward two years, riding lessons has become a father-daughter weekend activity if schedule allows (we miss a week or two here and there due to other commitments). My daughter and I now both jump low X’s and verticals. I started cantering early this year, although I can’t say I’m totally comfortable nor claim I know what I’m doing 100%. I’ve fallen off about 9 times, all jump related. I’ve gotten my foot stepped on a couple of times, I’ve had to chase after a runaway horse, tacked, untacked, groomed countless times, scooped poop. Putting the bit and bridle on is still a hit-or-miss affair. I’ve even tried a package beginner polo lessons in the summer (so much fun but so friggin’ hard and physically demanding). I’ve even hooked up with some cavalry reenactor friends for a couple of living history event rides.

Sometimes I’m “riding high” and feeling on top of the game. Sometimes I feel I’ve regressed and can’t do anything right, can’t get the horse to go, can’t squeeze enough, can’t get timing right, etc.

All in all it’s been a great experience and perfect father-daughter bonding activity.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Great to hear the update! It took me a long time to enjoy cantering. Since you first posted, I've gone western...but I'd love to take jumping lessons some day if finances ever permit. My youngest daughter is a senior in high school, and riding together is one of the few times we get to hang out together as father & daughter...perhaps because when riding, we're primarily riders.


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## Vee2 (Sep 25, 2011)

Thanks! Well since you posted a picture of you and your daughter, let me post some of us too 



















Sometimes I wear a helmet cam... so can catch cool pics like this LOL










Cheers


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

ha ha!!!! that's amazing!

kudos for you fro trying, and trying , and trying , and falling, and falling, and still trying.

high five!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Whoops, missed some pages. Congrats!


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