# Does he have awful conformation?



## 1322271927queen (Sep 17, 2012)

Trying to decide if I should go see this horse. He's only 3, ottb, 4starts. The nice looking one that I posted before turned out to have superficial flexor tendon damage so I opted out of the pre-purchase. I know he's no upper level horse but is his right front pastern injured or could he just be leaning on it that way? Will his pasterns look better once my farrier corrects the hoof angles? He looks long enough to have a decent trot but his front legs look set too far back on his body for him to be a nice mover. I liked his hind end the best and his hocks look strong. I know he has an ehw neck from race training.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

What do you mean by too far back?

Better hoof angles might help his pastern angles, but it WON'T change that his pasterns...and whole legs for that matter, are extremely fine boned and long. They're even longer/thinner than my own filly's, and I don't call her the noodle horse for nothing!!!  He has a decent shoulder but a longish back and steep croup, so I wouldn't look at him as a competition horse.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

The only thing that I see going for him is a decent shoulder. He's super fine boned, and will probably stay that way once he reaches maturity. Everything about him says too long, thin, and breakable for me. Even for a TB.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

His long pasterns and hoof angles worry me immensely. Yes he does need a better farrier but I doubt your farrier is a magician who can transform those pasterns. This horse looks oh so fragile to me.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

One word: Trainwreck. That horse isn't built to stay sound. Sorry. Pretty colour, that's about it.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

there is not one part of that horse that I like, except his color. he is camped out in front, overly straight hocks, a weak hind end, long and weak coupling, long pasterns, and under boned.


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## 1322271927queen (Sep 17, 2012)

*thankyou, I tend to like every horse I see*

I tend to like every horse I see even though I'm an upper level rider. I hope someone takes him. I was worried he will end up in a kill pen but he was for sale at $1800 so I think if I said I'd take him for free or for $200 the trainer would say forget it. The horse is headed for FL on Saturday from Suffolk Downs. There's an ad for him on the canter website which places race horses in new homes.


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## 1322271927queen (Sep 17, 2012)

*I don't think he's that bad tiny liny*

You can draw a straight line from the point of his butt to his hock to his fetlock. His hock joints are big and he has short cannon bones. His back legs are definitely not straight. He almost looks sickle hocked because of the way he's standing. His croup comes to a point above the hip but the slope of it is a decent angle. He just has no topline yet. The gaskin is in proportion to the haunch although it would be nice if the gaskin was a little bigger. He is only 3. His faults are his ehw neck, thick throatlatch, long pastern, skinny forelegs and the way his chest sticks out in front of his arm and forms a corner which looks like it would block his shoulder from coming forward. I think that is more under muscle on his chest from racing. The angle of his hooves doesn't help either.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I wouldn't consider his cannons to be short. The fronts aren't horribly long, but the backs are definitely longer than ideal. I actually don't see a problem with his chest, but his back is very weak. The ewe and 'greyhound' appearance that he has will fade away with time off of the track. I actually agree that he does seem a bit straight behind, although it could be the way he is standing. That would not affect the 'straight line' from butt to hock to fetlock, it has to do with the lack of angle from one part to another.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the thing you describe about his chest is why I said he looks "camped out in front". not behind.

I am rarely as critical of a horse as I was regarding this one. maybe I don't know OTTB's. If you are pretty secure in how to see his conformation, why ask about it?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Give this horse another year or two along with dressage work and we will see a different horse. His long pasterns are typical of a TB.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Saddlebag said:


> Give this horse another year or two along with dressage work and we will see a different horse. His long pasterns are typical of a TB.


Muscle won't change skeletal conformation. Long pasterns are prone to injury - especially suspensory injuries. Ask me how I know.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't like him. He's very delicate in all the wrong places and his angles are bad all the way around. Super short neck, super long back, super long pasterns, super fine bones, very steep croup, weak coupled. Also appears that he might have a slight roach back though that could be the combination of him being racing fit, his coloring, and the shadow of the overhead cable running down his back.

Either way, if I were looking for a horse to compete on, in anything, I'd keep looking.

If he's got a good mind, he might have a long career as a plodding trail horse but I'd be terrified to try anything strenuous with him.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

I would go for it if you want a training project to sell as a trail horse or a horse for light work. I think they are asking too much money. Although he may look better with some weight, his legs are so thin!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

conformation is not always Good or Bad. some things that are good for racing aren't good for team penning, or dressage. Good for pulling a wagon might not be good for jumping . I tend to lean toward a horse that is going to be sturdy and have, hopefully, fewer issues with soundness. There are reasons why many of us are doubtful this horse will be one you can rely on to stay sound. But, he might be fast, if that's what you are looking for.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I think maybe his stance is making him look worse than he is. YES he has long sloping pasterns. Too long really. His gaskin is light.. too light (I have circled it). He is not built real down hill. His neck is a bit low set on top and looks short but it may be better when he drops his head some. His shoulder lays back nicer than nice.. and he has nice angle. His hind cannons are offset to the rear beneath his hocks which are a bit small IMO. His feet need serious work. Shorter toes and longer heels. His stance is awful awful stiff.. and they caught him like that with the camera. maybe he is really hot.. and difficult too. 

I keep going back to those pasterns... and the hocks. I would not mind trying him in dressage but those hocks are light. I think about jumping but those pasterns are weak for that.


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## Weezilla (Aug 3, 2012)

You can find far better OTTBs for your money. Its never the cost of the horse, it's the upkeep. Those long pasterns are the first thing my eye went to. Second were the skimpy hind legs. 

Here are some nice ones:

a nice grey Unbridled Numbers - 3YO 16.1hh Grey Gelding

a nice bay 4 y o UPDATE 11/5/13: Price Reduced!! Jailbreak Charlie

A bay 6 y o mare with foxhunting experience Eat Cake

7 y o bay gelding Nearly There, 7 year old 16.3 h bay gelding | Finger Lakes Finest Thoroughbreds


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I agree totally with Elana's post - nothing to add to that
What I do think is that as prices of all horses are dropping at this time of year you would do far better to forget these OTTB's that have had no rehab work done and come with all sorts of physical and mental baggage and go and look at some horses that you can actually get on and ride & are already showing potential in the jumping or dressage you are interested in doing


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## Weezilla (Aug 3, 2012)

One more Canter cutie Park Rules


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Of the horses Weezilla pointed out, I'm a big fan of Eat Cake. She's priced pretty well and already has significant experience off the track. If the next horse I'm looking at doesn't work out, I really want to go see her


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm not a fan of the other grey Weezilla posted but I'm loving the last one...Park Rules. Love his shoulder and legs minus the fact that he is tied in.

I can't believe how much money these people are wanting for OTTBS though...you can come to our track and if you have a good eye, grab a _couple_ of injury-free, decently built 3-5 year olds for $1000, and the trainer might even trainer to you!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't really like any of the horses Weezilla pointed out.. for various reasons. Eat Cake has experience but does not look scopey to me and has limited shoulder movement. Of course, if she were better she would be commanding another zero in her price.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

One again I'm agreeing with Elana on the horses that weezilla pointed out
If you buy from a rehab place you will be paying for the work they've put in to them to assess them or do any retraining - but that's better than buying blind
If you can find an trustworthy race yard trainer and buy direct its going to be cheaper as you're cutting out all the middle men
Trouble is a lot of flat race horses are bred purely for speed and they don't always care that they're burnt out after a few years either so the faults we look at in a long tern riding horse aren't as important. Speed = a horse that moves long and low and that doesn't always work the best when you want a dressage horse or a showjumper that's going to have to round up and have the power to elevate. They just don't always have the conformation for it
I'd forget about all of these purebreds and look for a sensibly priced TB X


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Appendix Quarterhorses can be very versatile. I have known a few that made really good jumpers and event horses. Of course they had the right conformation and speed... 

Here is the bottom line. A really good horse.. with the mind and body.. to do eventing and so forth is probably going to command a really good price. I know that at the higher levels a $30,000 horse is not good enough.. because if it was, it would command $60,000. 

Here we are looking for a diamond in a pile of rocks. They are there, but you gotta move a lot of rocks to find them. In this market after several years of the horse business having been a sellers market up to 2007-08 there is are a lot more rocks of using age then ever... they were bred to sell for a profit and not to perform. 

Now the bottom has dropped out and those horses are the ones you need to sift through to find the diamonds.


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## Weezilla (Aug 3, 2012)

Meh, I'm not wild about any of them myself-but I like them better than the original horse. I'd be looking somewhere other than OTTBs if I was the OP's trainer. There ARE great deals out there; one of our own regulars scored bigtime just recently.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I agree they were better than the original horse


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