# Riding in a rope halter: Impossible for some horses?



## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Horses can be more or less sensitive, just like people. To me it comes down to 2 things.

1) training. Some horses learn to ignore pressure by the way they are handled. Some are never taught to respond correctly. You need to train a horse to respond to a halter just like you teach them to respond to a bit or leg pressure. You start on the ground, then a small pen, then a big pen, then the open, just like a bit.

2) preference. Some horses like thin bits, some thick, some jointed or solid.some prefer curbs over snaffle. I've seen this first hand. I tried to make a filly I had like a snaffle. I tried all sorts, I had her since 10 months so she had never been mis trained. She always hated them, and the second I put a curb on her she was a different horse. Loved it. The same concept goes for halter pressure. If you try to train a horse to accept riding in a halter and they never really respond the way you hoped, the horse may just not like it. You may have a softer and more responsive horse in a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Rope halters aren't great to ride in.

They don't really offer precise aids because the halter just slides around. The way they're tied there is usually a fair bit of space under the chin which can mean as you pull back your reins or lead rope just hit the neck. 

There are plenty of bit less options out there that are much better than a standard rope halter. Or even rope halters tied specifically for riding in.

I'd actually say you're better off riding in a standard halter as then you can use it like a side pull.

The other thing with rope halters is that unless your horse is trained and obedient to the commands it's going to be hard. They're not really riding tools and they don't really give you many options if your horse picks a fight. Many horses will be fine in an arena with them just because they're generally obedient on an arena, and they have nowhere else to go.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

Dreamcatcher5 said:


> I can ride him fine in a rope halter in the field but if he wants to go somewhere where I don't necessarily want him to go, he WILL just ignore my aids and plow on ahead. Luca is ridden in an eggbutt snaffle, and he is quite easy to control.


I haven't put a bit in my big guy's mouth in about five years. I absolutely can't tell any difference in how he responds switching between an eggbutt snaffle and a a rope halter. He responds worse in a thinner O-ring snaffle or curb bit. Since he works well in the rope halter, that's how I ride him.

Like Bluespark says, horses have individual preferences. And I agree with Saskia that a rope halter isn't exactly a precision guidance tool. If I had more money I would experiment with bosals and sidepulls, but the rope halter has worked well, even dealing with the biggest spooks.

Nobody is giving any prizes away for riding in a halter. If your horse likes his eggbutt, I'd use it and not worrry about it.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You are never going to have the control in a halter that you have with a bit.


Some horses are fine riding in a halter but I wouldn't recommend it if you are outside the arena and out on the trails unless it is a very well trained horse.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> You are never going to have the control in a halter that you have with a bit.
> 
> 
> Some horses are fine riding in a halter but I wouldn't recommend it if you are outside the arena and out on the trails unless it is a very well trained horse.
> ...


With all due respect, Foxhunter (your advice is 99.99% of the time right on for me!) this video you posted is a demonstration of laying a horse down, which is like comparing apples and oranges. The OP was asking about riding in a bit versus a halter - totally different.

My horse rides in a nurtural bitless bridle and anyone who's ridden her (much better riders than I) has said that you cannot tell the difference between her and a bitted horse. She is ultra responsive, stops on a dime and turns on one too. She does have a very sensitive face (hated a knotted rope halter), so maybe that's why she's so good in it, but I don't agree based on my personal experience, that a horse can't be as good in a bitles setup as they are bitted. Now, I know my experience is not to the level of Foxhunter's, but I've ridden about 5 different horses now regularly, all of them bitted except for my girl. She's just as good or better than they are, response-wise.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I just wanted to add, I don't think ALL horses can go well bitless. We had a merens horse for about a year that would have been a nightmare with that much freedom. It totally depends on the horse, and the bitless option. Halters are only one, and as others have said, the least precise. I personally love the Nurtural and I've turned some other riders onto it at my barn and now we have two girls doing jumping competitions in them. They give a nice fat signal to the side of the jaw, but without the knots. It's gentle, but obvious.

So try other options if you really like the idea of being bitless, but at the end of the day, if you can't control your horse that way, go with the bit. It's not a failure, it's just a different method of communication.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I would not even try riding in a rope halter. Can't imagine a use for that.

Some stops and turns are non-negotiable. While I never use more cue than needed, I never hesitate to use as much as required.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

boots said:


> I would not even try riding in a rope halter.


I probably never would have tried it either, but one of the most common tasks my horses perform is being led around the surrounding trails with first time riders on their backs. Since I'm the one doing the leading I get pretty tired after an hour or two of that. And it's a little hike from the tack room to the pasture. So one day I hopped on my big guy and ponied the little horse back to their pasture, and it worked surprisingly well.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

The vaqueros have done pretty much all they needed to do with the use of a bosal for the first few years of training from working cattle to garrocha. 

vaquero riding in bosal - Bing Videos

vaquero riding in bosal garrocha - Bing Videos

So it seems that, given the right rider and right horse almost anything can be accurately communicated from the rider to the horse without the use of bits, instead communicated off of poll or nose pressure.

In that time with the bosal/mecate the horses develop the ability to ride off of leg and seat cues, which like the rein cues, become more and more subtly refined with training, always working towards subtlety and softness. Usually, only 
a short time is spent in a snaffle.

Eventually both the horse and rider are able to graduate to the finished stage and go with a spade bit not for control, for the most subtle communication. This is paired with the romel rein. 

In theory, the control lies in the training of the horse’s mind over a period of years as much as the body. Though ridden differently, in terms of training, bridle horses are considered the western equivalent of a Grand Prix level dressage horse. Training this way takes about 7-10 years.

1) Not all horses are selected for this training
2) Not all horses selected for training graduate to the spade bit

From the way they select the horses for training and finishing, some horses simply don’t have the mind for it and some do. I think it is similar with riding in a rope halter or bitless.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I used to ride both Mia & Trooper in a rope halter. With Trooper, it worked fairly well for low demand riding:










He could do most trails fine with it, but he's a "been there done that" kind of horse. With Mia...well, it was NOT a good idea.

When we wanted to do more than left turn / right turn / slow / go with Trooper, we found a bit helped a lot. With Mia, it was critical because a rope halter gave one NOTHING when she bolted. Rope halters and very fearful horses are a terrible match!

I tried a "LightRider" bitless bridle with my daughter and Trooper last spring. When we split up on different routes for a half mile, Trooper got nervous. My daughter said she had a hard time settling him down because she couldn't play with his mouth and tell him she was still there and things were OK.

Bandit can get scared, but he gives warning most of the time and he calms down fast. He might end up in a sidepull - something like this:










But even there, I find myself asking "Why?" He does fine in a Billy Allen snaffle or (currently) in a single joint D-ring. Probably 90% of our riding is done with slack reins, and another 9% is him wanting contact to reassure him. I try not to get in his mouth unless he either asks for it or needs it, so why spend $160 on a sidepull?

And Mia ended up in a Billy Allen curb. I eventually went back to using a snaffle about half the time, but she was more relaxed, more eager and more contented in the Billy Allen curb bit than anything else I ever tried. In fact, I think a well designed curb bit used properly is gentler than a rope halter for riding, not harsher.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

ecasey said:


> With all due respect, Foxhunter (your advice is 99.99% of the time right on for me!) this video you posted is a demonstration of laying a horse down, which is like comparing apples and oranges. The OP was asking about riding in a bit versus a halter - totally different.
> 
> My horse rides in a nurtural bitless bridle and anyone who's ridden her (much better riders than I) has said that you cannot tell the difference between her and a bitted horse. She is ultra responsive, stops on a dime and turns on one too. She does have a very sensitive face (hated a knotted rope halter), so maybe that's why she's so good in it, but I don't agree based on my personal experience, that a horse can't be as good in a bitles setup as they are bitted. Now, I know my experience is not to the level of Foxhunter's, but I've ridden about 5 different horses now regularly, all of them bitted except for my girl. She's just as good or better than they are, response-wise.



I agree it is a very different thing I put it up to show how the bit alters the whole thinking matter and does give that more control.

We use to ride the horses and ponies to and fro from the hill fields, bareback and in hatters made from plaited bailer twine - the good old sisal string not the nylon stuff you get now.

On more than one occasion, when we were messing around we got hooked off with by the ponies and there is no way that you could stop them. Didn't matter how well schooled they were they were racing!


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Does a horse respect the bit or the rider? Honest question.

I ask because I had something similar happen two weeks ago, I was riding Ollie in the pasture, bareback and in a rope halter when one of the dogs began agitating my daughter’s horse who then ran and kicked, picking up the other two horses in a racing game as he passed them. They all ran towards their leader.

I could hear the stampede coming behind me. Stopped Oliver, I turned myself around and shooed my hand at the running horses who veered off five feet to my right still running. Oliver didn’t move a muscle. He could have tried to join in the frackus, but did not. They kept running about and he and I continued on our way. 

You can put a rider on my retired ranch horses while they are eating a pile of hay, bareback without even a halter and what happens is they square up, lift their heads up finish chewing and just stand there, waiting for you to tell them what to do. You can see their frame of mind flip like a switch from leisure time to work even without all of the equipment. 

To me the frame of mind appears dependent upon the presence of the rider not the equipment. Thoughts?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I am of the opinion that a well made bosal, fitted in a balanced way on a horse is very much different than a halter of any type.

Otherwise, you would see good working hands using halters.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> ...To me the frame of mind appears dependent upon the presence of the rider not the equipment. Thoughts?


Depends on the horse at least as much as the rider. What is the horse's temperament, and what is its training?

I switched Mia to a curb bit because she had no respect for a snaffle. She knew how to avoid a snaffle, or at least fight it, and she was willing to fight.

3 rides of about 45 minutes each in a curb bit in an arena, and she never bolted again. I hadn't changed. Less than 2 hours of riding didn't dramatically change the training of a horse I had owned for 4 years. So yeah, she respected the bit. The design of a curb prevented her from escaping the pressure until *I* gave release, which was a big difference.

The first ride off property, she started to bolt at a motorcycle, I pumped with one hand on the reins 3 quick times, and she stopped. Period. Then the motorcycle went away from her, and you could almost see the light click on: "I stayed in one place, and the scary thing ran away! Hmmmm..."

Once she stopped bolting on me, she learned I knew the difference between what was really scary and what only looked scary. She would still startle after that, and sometimes jump sideways or even do a 360 in place, but she never ran off again.

But her experience in the months and years that followed taught her to trust my judgment more, and I was riding her about 50% in a snaffle and considering a sidepull for her when I swapped her for Bandit.

If someone has a competitive horse, they may not WANT to train that competitiveness out of her. In that case, an effective bit can be very helpful. And in any case, the right bit can be a very important training tool - what you use to teach the horse to do things your way.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Correct me if I misread. BSMS your experience says that finding a bit she respected, helped to teach her to respect you and your judgment. That makes sense. So in your case the two are not independent, either/or, but are linked.

I can't tell you exactly the training my ranch horses had, but I can tell you the training that Oliver has had (unfinished though it is at this point) and it included a lot of riding bitless, mostly bosal/mecate, then moved into a snaffle and now I have been riding in a rope halter on casual days. 

As for his temperament, almost everyone says he is aloof and challenging, whereas I experience him as affectionate and willing. He is a strong leader in the herds he has been in. On the trails he always wants to lead, I just don't always let him. It isn't like the competitiveness has been trained out of him, but just save it for your off duty time...unless I tell you otherwise.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Mia had serious fear issues. The first 4 months I owned her, she would sweat herself into a lather just standing in a corral. When she bolted - and we did LOTS of bolts together - she squirted diarrhea out the back. The problem in part was that she would forget I was even there. The most reliable way to stop her bolt was to call her name softly. When an ear flicked back, her mind was returning and we would be stopped soon.

But for whatever reason, she respected the curb bit. It wasn't pressure. The curb I used had a 3:1 mechanical advantage. She would not stop fighting a snaffle with all my weight thrown against it, but she would stop with 2-3 pumps of my forearm in a curb. So there was more pressure in her mouth from the snaffle, and she didn't care. With less from the curb, she cared.

Why? I don't know. It could have been luck - that the first time I used a curb on her while she was scared, she just happened to stop. And when the motorcycle went away while she stood still, it clicked. Maybe it would have happened in a snaffle. I'll never know.

When she didn't get scared or feel competitive, she could be ridden in a rope halter without any big problems. I did it for years. Literally. But when the horse hit the fan, the rope halter did not have what I needed to get her to obey. The snaffle did not either. The curb did.

Not sure when this picture was taken. Maybe 2009? Mia and I in the back - jump saddle and rope halter:


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> The vaqueros have done pretty much all they needed to do with the use of a bosal for the first few years of training from working cattle to garrocha.
> 
> vaquero riding in bosal - Bing Videos
> 
> ...


there is a world of difference between riding in a hackamore and a rope halter.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

I guess I needed to be clearer. The context of "it is similar to riding in a rope halter" was within the statement previous "some horses simply don't have the mind for it and some do". Apologies for the confusion.


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