# Donkey lovers... I have questions!



## HarleyClown

I can't talk from a lot of experience but the stubbornness thing is laced with intelligence. I threw a saddle on my grandparents untrained donkey and jumped on, I expected either a bit of attitude or for her not to move at all. Instead of doing either of these things, she laid down....They have a much narrower back than most horses too, which would make finding tack for them a bit different than a horse. For instance a round QH's saddle would likely not fit a donkey, but a TB saddle might. Again I have very little experience, but I thought I'd share my two cents.


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## loosie

Of your poll, I'd say donkeys often tend to be more resigned, more ready to put up with stuff, less reactive, less 'spooky', so on those notes, can be better for a novice. Donkeys can be more 'personable' than horses too, enjoying human company & 'being loved on' more, which is great for kids especially. Although mine was very friendly & completely harmless with virtually everyone he met, I found he didn't like my boyfriends when I got older - actually frightened them & chased them out of the paddock aggressively! (While all I could do was fall about laughing!) I think he thought he was my 'main man'.

But it depends... their different intelligence to horses can make them become 'stubborn' or tricky, depending how they're handled. For eg. Harley's lying down donk, or mine who I used to ride everywhere with my friends & their ponies when growing up, but some kids he just didn't like, but he knew exactly how tall he was, and would be a Very Good Boy, until there was a low branch, an empty farm gate frame or such, and he'd go under it with an inch to spare, wiping his rider off, leaving them hanging, literally!:twisted: & occasionally he did that sort of thing to me too, I reckon due to his sense of fun!



EmberScarlet said:


> 1) Are they really that stubborn? I know that they are infamous for being, well, asses. I think the main deterant for me is that. Are they hard to manage?


What's the saying... 'For a person to be an effective animal trainer, one must be smarter than the animal in question. That's why some breeds(or species) are harder to train than others!' ;-) 

But for the most part, I think all animals are 'smart' but in *different* ways and if people don't understand them - donks have different bodylanguage to horses for eg - then they may come across as 'stupid' or 'stubborn' or 'bird brained'(birds are quite 'intelligent' for the most part IME). So the moral to the story is, whatever animal you're working with, do bother to learn a bit about their psychology, behaviour, bodylanguage.

When people use the term 'stubborn' it usually means resistant to 'pressure' and persistent - pretty valuable traits really, if you're human! I do find donks more resistant to pressure they don't understand *or see a good reason to 'listen' to*. You have to be more clear & rewarding to get a donk yielding to pressure in the same manner as a horse I reckon. And persistent - well, they often learn quickly they're bigger & uglier than you & can 'outpersist' you - ignore it for long enough & it will go away is one of their effective tactics! Horses can learn that too, but donks are generally more patient... and often far more patient than their handlers, so more likely to learn they can get humans to give up if they're 'stubborn'. And I reckon they definitely have a sense of humour too!



> 2) Height? People say that Mammoths are really hard to find, and normal sized donkeys are too small to ride.


Donkeys are built differently, with a more flexible spine & actually stronger for their size than a horse for carrying stuff/riders on their back. They CAN carry a lot(look at Simpson's donk, carrying soldiers...). But then, as with horses, just because they're able doesn't necessarily make it good for them. It's all relative and if you're a big person, a 'normal' donk will be too small to do much at all on. If you're a large child/smallish adult, then a standard size might be fine. Tho 'normal' donks come in different sizes too - Irish ones are generally a fair size for eg. 



> 3) Riding skill? Are they steady, good trail rides? Are they reliable and trustworthy, or will they suddenly stop moving and be stubborn?


As per above, they can be 'steadier' on trails than horses. But they're still a live, thinking, feeling, reacting animal, so they are no more or less 'reliable & trustworthy' than a horse & it depends on how they're ridden & trained, just like a horse. And be it horse or donk, there is always a reason why they 'get stubborn' or suddenly do something else undesirable - you just have to understand them a bit & be smart about it.



> 4) Are they more/less or as expensive as a horse for keeping?


They are generally very 'easy keepers' & don't need as much feed as a horse the same size. That can make it more tricky sometimes though, if they're in a 'good paddock', they're more likely to suffer problems of obesity, founder, IR & the likes if not managed well. They generally don't need rugging, even if there is no paddock shelter - they tend to grow thick, woolly coats in winter. All else is about equal - while I've heard all sorts, donks DO tend to need hoof care as frequently as a horse(altho are rarely shod), they need worming, their teeth attended, a saddle carefully fitted if you're using one...



> 5) Do they need specially fitted tack, or can you just use appropriate fitting horse stuff?


A cob sized halter & bridle is generally OK for a 'normal' sized donk - they have big heads compared to horses. As above, fitting a saddle can be tricky, if it's made for a horse, as donks are a different shape. A good(as in adequate padding & spine clearance) treeless saddle, which don't have much 'rock' or 'twist' can be great for a donk. A breastplate, & crupper or breeching strap can be more necessary to keep the saddle in position without overtightening the girth.


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## EmberScarlet

loosie said:


> Of your poll, I'd say donkeys often tend to be more resigned, more ready to put up with stuff, less reactive, less 'spooky', so on those notes, can be better for a novice. Donkeys can be more 'personable' than horses too, enjoying human company & 'being loved on' more, which is great for kids especially. Although mine was very friendly & completely harmless with virtually everyone he met, I found he didn't like my boyfriends when I got older - actually frightened them & chased them out of the paddock aggressively! (While all I could do was fall about laughing!) I think he thought he was my 'main man'.
> 
> But it depends... their different intelligence to horses can make them become 'stubborn' or tricky, depending how they're handled. For eg. Harley's lying down donk, or mine who I used to ride everywhere with my friends & their ponies when growing up, but some kids he just didn't like, but he knew exactly how tall he was, and would be a Very Good Boy, until there was a low branch, an empty farm gate frame or such, and he'd go under it with an inch to spare, wiping his rider off, leaving them hanging, literally!:twisted: & occasionally he did that sort of thing to me too, I reckon due to his sense of fun!
> 
> 
> 
> What's the saying... 'For a person to be an effective animal trainer, one must be smarter than the animal in question. That's why some breeds(or species) are harder to train than others!' ;-)
> 
> But for the most part, I think all animals are 'smart' but in *different* ways and if people don't understand them - donks have different bodylanguage to horses for eg - then they may come across as 'stupid' or 'stubborn' or 'bird brained'(birds are quite 'intelligent' for the most part IME). So the moral to the story is, whatever animal you're working with, do bother to learn a bit about their psychology, behaviour, bodylanguage.
> 
> When people use the term 'stubborn' it usually means resistant to 'pressure' and persistent - pretty valuable traits really, if you're human! I do find donks more resistant to pressure they don't understand *or see a good reason to 'listen' to*. You have to be more clear & rewarding to get a donk yielding to pressure in the same manner as a horse I reckon. And persistent - well, they often learn quickly they're bigger & uglier than you & can 'outpersist' you - ignore it for long enough & it will go away is one of their effective tactics! Horses can learn that too, but donks are generally more patient... and often far more patient than their handlers, so more likely to learn they can get humans to give up if they're 'stubborn'. And I reckon they definitely have a sense of humour too!
> 
> 
> 
> Donkeys are built differently, with a more flexible spine & actually stronger for their size than a horse for carrying stuff/riders on their back. They CAN carry a lot(look at Simpson's donk, carrying soldiers...). But then, as with horses, just because they're able doesn't necessarily make it good for them. It's all relative and if you're a big person, a 'normal' donk will be too small to do much at all on. If you're a large child/smallish adult, then a standard size might be fine. Tho 'normal' donks come in different sizes too - Irish ones are generally a fair size for eg.
> 
> 
> 
> As per above, they can be 'steadier' on trails than horses. But they're still a live, thinking, feeling, reacting animal, so they are no more or less 'reliable & trustworthy' than a horse & it depends on how they're ridden & trained, just like a horse. And be it horse or donk, there is always a reason why they 'get stubborn' or suddenly do something else undesirable - you just have to understand them a bit & be smart about it.
> 
> 
> 
> They are generally very 'easy keepers' & don't need as much feed as a horse the same size. That can make it more tricky sometimes though, if they're in a 'good paddock', they're more likely to suffer problems of obesity, founder, IR & the likes if not managed well. They generally don't need rugging, even if there is no paddock shelter - they tend to grow thick, woolly coats in winter. All else is about equal - while I've heard all sorts, donks DO tend to need hoof care as frequently as a horse(altho are rarely shod), they need worming, their teeth attended, a saddle carefully fitted if you're using one...
> 
> 
> 
> A cob sized halter & bridle is generally OK for a 'normal' sized donk - they have big heads compared to horses. As above, fitting a saddle can be tricky, if it's made for a horse, as donks are a different shape. A good(as in adequate padding & spine clearance) treeless saddle, which don't have much 'rock' or 'twist' can be great for a donk. A breastplate, & crupper or breeching strap can be more necessary to keep the saddle in position without overtightening the girth.


This was very helpful!! <3 THANK YOU! 
Your donk seems like a character-xD


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## Uze

I don't have a standard donkey, only a mini that won't ever be ridden, but as far as personality goes, my mini donk is definitely "stubborn." She's very easy going, despite her never wearing a halter in her life before I bought her, she pretty much immediately accepted the halter. But leading was a whole other story. If she doesn't want to move, you can throw your whole body weight at her and she'll just stand there not moving. lol. I see my donkey analyzing every situation, and if SHE decides to do something, she'll do it. But if it doesn't "make sense" to her, she won't do it. It's actually pretty incredible to see, because you can clearly see when she's thinking about something. She's so friggin cute.

Picture of miss Luna:


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## ducky1234

"Stubborn" donkeys that I have known have been either entirely untrained or trained to be "stubborn". It's very easy to train your donkey to be stubborn using the standard horse "go forward" training. Pressure, no result, more pressure no result, even more pressure, realize it's never going to work, so give up. You've trained your donkey to be stubborn.

Even more effective in training a donkey to be stubborn is give up and then bribe with food.


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## EmberScarlet

ducky1234 said:


> "Stubborn" donkeys that I have known have been either entirely untrained or trained to be "stubborn". It's very easy to train your donkey to be stubborn using the standard horse "go forward" training. Pressure, no result, more pressure no result, even more pressure, realize it's never going to work, so give up. You've trained your donkey to be stubborn.
> 
> Even more effective in training a donkey to be stubborn is give up and then bribe with food.


That's what I've seen and heard. 
I have done a lot of reading since I posted this.


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## ducky1234

oops cannot delete


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## ducky1234

If I set this up right, here's a donkey (mine) that moves forward.
Click the little icon below:


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## loosie

ducky1234 said:


> "Stubborn" donkeys that I have known have been either entirely untrained or trained to be "stubborn". It's very easy to train your donkey to be stubborn using the standard horse "go forward" training. Pressure, no result, more pressure no result, even more pressure, realize it's never going to work, so give up. You've trained your donkey to be stubborn.
> 
> Even more effective in training a donkey to be stubborn is give up and then bribe with food.


 Can't 'like' so doing it this way, to show I agree!


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## secuono

ducky1234 said:


> "Stubborn" donkeys that I have known have been either entirely untrained or trained to be "stubborn". It's very easy to train your donkey to be stubborn using the standard horse "go forward" training. Pressure, no result, more pressure no result, even more pressure, realize it's never going to work, so give up. You've trained your donkey to be stubborn.
> 
> Even more effective in training a donkey to be stubborn is give up and then bribe with food.


Oh, couldn't help it!


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## EmberScarlet

secuono said:


> Oh, couldn't help it!


Reminds me of something on that block game!


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## Zexious

xD I'm crying!


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## george the mule

EmberScarlet said:


> When someone talks about trail riding, usually the first thing not people think of are horses.
> _But what about donkeys_?
> This question has been on my mind for a while, so I have a few questions for donkey lovers/owners; mostly in terms of RIDING.
> 
> 1) Are they really that stubborn? I know that they are infamous for being, well, asses. I think the main deterant for me is that. Are they hard to manage?
> 
> 2) Height? People say that Mammoths are really hard to find, and normal sized donkeys are too small to ride.
> 
> 3) Riding skill? Are they steady, good trail rides? Are they reliable and trustworthy, or will they suddenly stop moving and be stubborn?
> 
> 4) Are they more/less or as expensive as a horse for keeping?
> 
> 5) Do they need specially fitted tack, or can you just use appropriate fitting horse stuff?
> 
> I have the curiousity itch!


Well, I'll have a shot at giving you some answers, based on George, who is a very donkey-like mule. I've had him a long time, and we have shared many adventures.

1) Yes, altho I prefer opinionated. George is not much like a horse, and a Donkey isn't a horse at all. And Yes, George can be a real trial when he is in the mood.
2) Mostly. George is 14h and 850-900lb. He can carry my 150lb butt around all day in the mountains. A smaller lighter person could probably get by on a 13h / 750lb animal, but anything much smaller than that would be iffy. I think an average sized person would want a "Mammoth" donk; in any event that is all I have ever seen being ridden by an adult. They're out there, but not common. A good one even less so, and probably expensive.
3) George is an amazing trail animal, and trustworthy on most any kind of nasty footing. And he can absolutely be relied on to stop and question your authority if he doesn't agree with your plan of action.
4) Less, but not enough to really matter much. A smaller animal will eat and poop less if that's what you are asking.
5) Yes. I never did find a "production" saddle that fit His Muleness properly. He is as round as a barrel, with nothing like a withers. He currently wears a fully custom Synergist saddle that fits him as well as could be contrived (hand fit, in person), but he still has to wear a breast collar and breeching to locate the saddle front to back. Good rider balance is all that keeps it on top.

Hope this adds a little insight. Steve and Georgie T.


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## horseluvr2524

In a way it's almost too bad donkeys aren't as majestic as horses (though they are just as cute! in a fuzzy/scruffy way).

I know next to nothing about donks, but aren't they less prone to health problems? (ex. founder, laminitis, colic, etc.). And don't their hooves tend to be stronger and hold up to rough terrain?

If you can get past needing a majestic animal, they do seem like almost the perfect trail mount.


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## horseluvr2524

Just did a google search on riding donkeys for the heck of it... I am impressed and shocked at the number of people (usually tribal native people) riding donkeys bridleless! Apparently donkeys are extremely reliable.


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## EmberScarlet

horseluvr2524 said:


> In a way it's almost too bad donkeys aren't as majestic as horses (though they are just as cute! in a fuzzy/scruffy way).
> 
> I know next to nothing about donks, but aren't they less prone to health problems? (ex. founder, laminitis, colic, etc.). And don't their hooves tend to be stronger and hold up to rough terrain?
> 
> If you can get past needing a majestic animal, they do seem like almost the perfect trail mount.


I don't mind about looks much.  And, yes, so I've heard, they are less prone. But when that's true depends ...


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## george the mule

horseluvr2524 said:


> In a way it's almost too bad donkeys aren't as majestic as horses (though they are just as cute! in a fuzzy/scruffy way).
> 
> I know next to nothing about donks, but aren't they less prone to health problems? (ex. founder, laminitis, colic, etc.). And don't their hooves tend to be stronger and hold up to rough terrain?
> 
> If you can get past needing a majestic animal, they do seem like almost the perfect trail mount.


Hi Horseluvr!

They are reputed to be healthier, resulting from "hybrid vigor". Certainly George has been problem free health wise; he had a hoof abscess once, but that's about it vet-wise in nearly nine years. He is 17 now. He has been barefoot all of his life, and has hooves of polished steel. "Donkey feet" we say.

Majestic aside, George is just great. I find him rather striking in his own way, and will sic him on anyone who says differently ;-) I have to re-emphasize that a mule is _not_ like a horse, and a Donkey is even more _not_ like one. Trying to work with one of these animals as if they were a horse isn't going to get you very far. It took George a couple of years to re-train his pet human, and the learning process continues to this day. I will add that once learned, techniques that work with mules (and presumably, with donkeys) also seem to work very well with horses.

Steve


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## EmberScarlet

george the mule said:


> I have to re-emphasize that a mule is _not_ like a horse, and a Donkey is even more _not_ like one. Trying to work with one of these animals as if they were a horse isn't going to get you very far. It took George a couple of years to re-train his pet human, and the learning process continues to this day. I will add that once learned, techniques that work with mules (and presumably, with donkeys) also seem to work very well with horses.


I have to ask, since I've been listening to her YouTube videos and reading her stuff, but does this website seem like any good? 
Mule, Donkey & Horse Training with Meredith Hodges | Lucky Three Ranch


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## george the mule

Meredith is one of the best. I think at one point she had a donkey trained for Dressage  She still might; for sure she trains Dressage mules. Her book is good, and very detailed, but technical. I was told when I got him that Georgies daddy was one of her Jacks. Might be a good place to start looking for a riding donk if you are serious about new adventures.
Steve


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## EmberScarlet

george the mule said:


> Meredith is one of the best. I think at one point she had a donkey trained for Dressage  She still might; for sure she trains Dressage mules. Her book is good, and very detailed, but technical. I was told when I got him that Georgies daddy was one of her Jacks. Might be a good place to start looking for a riding donk if you are serious about new adventures.
> Steve


It's good that I found a great place to start! I can't wait to see where I could go with these beautiful animals. Hopefully I can find a nearby mentor! I've taken an affinity with these guys!


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## george the mule

george the mule said:


> Hi Horseluvr!
> 
> They are reputed to be healthier, resulting from "hybrid vigor".
> 
> Steve


Hi All!

Oops. _ Mules_ are reputed to be healthier than the Horse side of their parentage . . . Mr. Donkey is the half of the hybrid that imports the superior health and stamina.

Just to clarify. Steve


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