# Best hackamore?



## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

I have decided to get my horse a hackamore. She really doesn't enjoy the bit. And, I don't see why she should have to wear one. A bit is just something the rider uses when they can't control them without.

For casual riding, I was just going to use a rope halter and lead. But I don't think that's allowed in showing.. haha.

For western showing, I was thinking of the bosal hackamore.
But what about for english? I was hoping to get into hunters and maybe a little jumping.

Can you ride with a bosal in english?

Thanks!


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

That's not why I use a bit.  

When you say she 'doesn't enjoy the bit' what do you mean? Does she rear? Toss her head? Chomp?

You can use a bosal or bitless bridle, but in English you might get looks. With 
English, mechanical hackamores are the norm.

PS. Wouldn't jumping be a huge no-no if she can'y do speed events? Even tiny jumps cause concussion on the joints-- wouldn't that wear her out faster?


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

> When you say she 'doesn't enjoy the bit' what do you mean? Does she rear? Toss her head? Chomp?
> http://www.horseforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=808263#ixzz14dwv8RvJ​


No, she doesn't do any of those things. But, whenever I go to put it on, she lifts her head in the air, and yawns forever... like she is preparing her mouth for it.
She's a good girl, I have ridden with just a halter, even without anything multiple times. She just needs more work with bending without the bit.
I figure if she can be ridden without the bit, and she would enjoy it more, than why not?



> PS. Wouldn't jumping be a huge no-no if she can'y do speed events? Even tiny jumps cause concussion on the joints-- wouldn't that wear her out faster? http://www.horseforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=808263#ixzz14dxbyred​


I'm not really sure yet. I have never jumped with her, and probably won't for quite a while, as we are just starting her in english. 
For speed events... she can do them, but not full on like some of the riders.
She was fine when I did that a couple days. The only time when she becomes sore, is when I ride for a long period of time pushing her really hard. I did that once, will never do it again. She was sore for almost a month because of it 
But, I have galloped on trails, and she showed no soreness the next few days. 
I think she'd be fine in jumping just on low levels. But, we will see how it goes once we get into it 

Thanks so much! Is a mechanical hackamore harsher than a bosal?


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

That sounds like she is just being a pain-- she may do that once she gets a 'hang of' the Hackamore, too. The horse I ride does the opposite.. leans down into the bit and is then fine. It sounds like your horse is not resenting the bit, but is just doing a 'lesson horse' thing.

You might not be able to show without a bit. Some parents might raise a fuss(especially if you win.. my coach can't cross into Western with her gaited horse.. but this girl who NEVER wins can show her strung-out trotting horse in the gaited division). It all depends on your local rules. 

Mechanical hackamores are shanked. So yes, they are more 'harsh.' But hackamores can do lots of damage-- they're not 'nicer' than bits, just different.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

^^ I don't understand why hackamores are looked down upon in shows though... some horses HAVE to wear a hackamore, whether they were abused or other issues.

Oh she is a pain. haha. But, I was just thinking that I would prefer a hackamore as well over a bit. I thought for now we could try it out with just the rope halter and see how it goes 

Thanks!


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Because people can always say 'that horse can't be controlled in an emergency, there's no bit! What if it spooks and kills everyone?' Parents of horse kids can be MEAN, especially if you seem to be winning over their kids. I've seen parents scream for do-overs at a freakin' fun show.

Also, some judges won't place you for using 'unconventional' equipment. So for the show ring, I'd stick to the bit.

That being said, you should do whatever you can to make your horse more versatile in different situations.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

You'll have to get copies of your shows rule books. Many require a bit for horses over the age of 5 in western events, and most require a bit in all English events (except jumpers, which is a speed event that would likely not be good for your horse).

I would have a vet look at her teeth. She could have some issues going on there. If not, you might try a 3-piece bit (like a frenchin link or one with a roller middle piece) and see if she likes that better. Work her on taking the bit better. Put some molasses or honey on the bit to help her accept it more readily. Make sure to NEVER bang her teeth with the bit when you're putting it in or removing it.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

^^Oh wow, I didn't know some horse parents were like that. 

I rode her tonight with the halter. She is amazing. She is a million times better with the halter than with the bridle.

I even use a slack rope. To get her to turn, I just place my hand on the opposite side of her neck that I want her to turn and put a tiny leg pressure from the outside leg, and she spins that direction immediately.

When I use the bridle to get her to back up, she takes one step but takes forever and she doesnt like her mouth getting pulled on.

With the halter, I barely put pressure with my hands, squeezed my legs and clucked.... she backed up far and really quickly.

While doing it all, her ears were completely forward. She really enjoyed it. I even did a couple spins. She even did better with spins than with tack on.

Normally when I ride, both her ears are back and rarely come forwards. So, I'm thinking she enjoyed it a bit more.
Also she kept playing with her mouth, like licking her lips while I rode, is that a good sign?

Thanks! I guess for showing, I will have to ask their rules, and she will have to wear a bit for that.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

It's safe to assume that you need a bit for showing.

With the amount of difference between tack vs. no tack, I'd get her checked out. I wouldn't be surprised if you were inadvertently hurting her with a piece of tack.


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

You do not need a bit to show english. At least in the jumper ring you don't. If you watch Eric Lamaze and other riders at Spruce Meadows some of them use hackamores. It is illegal in dressage and I have no clue about western but in Show Jumping and Cross-Country it is allowed. I have a friend who's horse absolutly loves the hackamore. For some reason he's happier tha with a bit, never asked the owner why. She uses this kind Click This Link

Meanwhile my horse hated it, he got super ****ed and didn't listen in the hackamore. I also have 2 other friends at the barn who use the hackamore shown above. One can get incredible bend with it, much more than in a bit and the other's horse is just uber happy.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

^^ Thank you! That sounds like a good hackamore. Do you just attach a regular headstall to it?
Thanks!

Vivache - Her saddle fits her perfectly, and she is great when riding with the halter in the saddle. Her bridle fits her fine as well, and she doesn't act like she's in pain when it's on. I can just tell that she doesn't enjoy it. I can't blame her.. I wouldn't really enjoy a bar of metal in my moth, getting pulled on.
Her teeth are due in spring as well, I don't think there is anything wrong with her physically.
Thanks!


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I find that fitting a hackamore of this type or a Little S needs a headstall with shorter cheekpieces, and nice firm leather, maybe double thickness. Some headstalls only have a cheek adjustment buckle on one side, better to have one that adjusts on both sides. 

You can't necessarily just go down to a cob size either because the browband needs to be long enough to help keep the cheeks out of the eyes.

The nosebands need breaking in, at first they are stiff and too "straight" which causes a pulling outward away from the face and forward - again into the eyes. Oil it, bend it, flex it, limber it, get it wet and form it, if it is a nylon rope noseband warm it up with a hairdryer and form it and maybe cover it with vetwrap. Terry Myers uses a piece of flannel from a shirt on the nosebands of his sidepulls.

If you and your horse work well together with a hackamore, it is worth the trouble to fit it well.


PS. A rope hackamore with a properly tied mecate IS a bosal.


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

yes horselover you just attach it to the cheekpieces of a regular bridle, jsut like you'd attach a bit.








Its a little picture but you get the idea. You will need to put it up a few holes from what you normally have it with the bit.


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## K and M Hobby Farm (Nov 5, 2010)

I use hackamores on most my horses, espically in the cold winters. The ones I prefer is the one Beau Baby has a picture of. I also use the braided nose one but I find the shanks are too long and can be very severe. I never let beginners ride with a hackamore as it is a severe piece of equipment. I found it was much more severe than a jointed snaffle but the horses were more relaxed and could snack on our trail rides.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Hackamores are only allowed in Jumpers and Cross Country events; both are aiken to the western world's "speed events" and are judged on time and jumps cleared. If the OP doesn't want to show her horse in speed western events, then it's not likely her horse is suitable for these English events either.

Hunter or Hunter Under Saddles classes and Dressage both require a bit. Hunter classes are the most common "English" events in open or breed shows that combine multiple disciplines. All I have ever seen or attended require an approved bit, at schooling or rated shows. If a rider uses non-approved tack, they may be disqualified from the class or not placed in the ribbons.

OP: If you want to show your horse, you need to figure out why your horse is reacting poorly to your bit(s). Have your vet check her teeth. Have a trainer watch you ride and ride your horse as well. Have someone video you riding your horse with a bit. If her teeth are fine and your bit handling skills are adequate, then you need to find someone you can borrow some different bits from and try a bunch out until you find one that your horse likes.

If you can't seem to find any your horse likes, then I would consider finding a new trainer, preferably a Dressage trainer if you're looking at riding English, or a Reining trainer if you're going western. Both of these types of trainers generally have a better understanding of bit types, uses, and mechanics.

I would also seek a second opinion on your horse's teeth. Have any wolf teeth pulled.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> A bit is just something the rider uses when they can't control them without.


I don't see any valid reason to have added this comment - Wanting to ride in a hackamore is absolutely fine, there is no need to insult the 99% of people on this forum who choose to use bits. For your information, I ride all my horses in bits, but can also ride them all in a halter, and can ride my show horse sans bridle completely, nothing on his head.

*

Any hackamore with shanks is similar to a bit with shanks - They should not be used to direct rein, neck rein only. That leaves you with sidepulls and cross under options if you want one for english.


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

yea wildspot i gotta agree. that comment about riders with bits was quite uncalled for. I use a bit because my sport says its illegal to use a hackamore for part of it. aside from the fact that i've always used a bit and my horse responds well to a simple french link snaffle. my horse however HATES hackamores. does that mean that i can't control my horse without it? no it does not.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

hmm...don't know about the showing in them. 

but i had a little arab mare that tried to constantly touch the sky with her nose...my trainer put her in a bosal with horsehair reins and it made all the difference. she was like a different horse! 

But once she got better/calmer...we switched her back to a sprenger snaffle...


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

I say find what works best for you and your horse. As for showing it depends on the show, just ask for a copy of their rule book and you should be just fine. Lots of good advice given here.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

Wild Spot - I did not mean to offend anyone. I know tons and tons of people who use bits to control their crazy high strung horses.
A bit is something they invented to control the horse and tune up riding cues.
But all the things done in a bit, can as well be done without.
I never said it was bad or wrong to ride with a bit, but it's my opinion that you really don't need a bit, if you're willing to work hard.. even with the hardest horse.

Thanks to everyone! The vet is coming in spring, and he was just out... I can't afford to pay another couple hundred dollars just to see if she needs her teeth done. That doesn't even include the cost of her teeth getting done.

I think I will be getting the hackamore on the link. It seems like a few of you like it.

I rode english with her today, english saddle and rope halter. We need to work on that a bit more, as she is amazing at neck reining. But, english you can't neck rein. So, we will be working on 2 hand with a rope halter.

I think the english saddle is fitting her wrong as well... she had her ears pinned and tried to buck a couple times. She does that every once in awhile when shes being cranky.. but I'm not sure. She never had a problem with that saddle before, but then again I've only used it about 4-5 times.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

I was searching about hackamores and this bitless bridle came up:
The Bitless Bridle by Dr. Robert Cook, FRCVS, Ph.D.

I absolutely love it, and think I should get it. Though, it is quite pricy.
I like it because it can't harm my horse. Lots of high level cross country, dressage and jumping riders use it.

I was thinking it might work!


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Some horses HATE those. They create a different pressure than your horse is used to with the rope halter.

You think it can't hurt your horse? That's because you're looking at THEIR site. It CAN snap a horse's nose.

Anything can. Don't let yourself be fooled.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

Oh really? I'm not really 100% sure how it even works... does it have any pressure? Or do you like manually pull the head yourself? haha

It says that they have a 30day trial.. if you don't like it.

Very true about how they say it can't harm them. 

Have you tried it, if you have could you tell me how you liked it?


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

horseluver i'd caution you against the bitless bridle in the link you posted above. I purchased one that was almost exactly like that a couple years ago and it didn't release the reins. once you pulled back for a halt or half-halt it didn't release like a normal rein would. it did not slip back through the rings. it was called a nurtural bitless bridle. they're similar.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

In my discipline, we don't touch bitless anything. We ride 2-handed with curbs(I use a wonder gag) at shows. I use a snaffle at the moment, to restore headshake, but we'll be going back to the wonderbit in spring.

Anything has the power to harm your horse. The crossunder does create leverage.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

From your posts here and your stated opinions, I feel that you really need to invest in a good trainer. If you already have one and he/she isn't advising you about bits, saddle fit, show regulations, vet visits, etc., then you need to find a new trainer.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

^^ I do have a good trainer. I board at her place, but haven't taken lessons in at least a month.
And, the only time I can ask her is when we are in a lesson. She works during the day when I'm there.

I am also going to be taking jumping lessons at a different place on their horses to practice with an experienced horse, before trying my horse.

I posted here, because I was seeking advice for a good hackamore. I like opinions of lots of people. Not just one person, whose opinion I may not agree with.


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## horseluver50 (Mar 19, 2009)

I have been reading lots of reviews and there are tons of people who use bitless bridles.
There is also this one --> Nurtural Horse: The Better Bitless Bridle
Which sounds really good as well


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Here is a hackamore on NRS that is shanked and described as a sidepull.

Reinsman Shanked Rope Sidepull Bit | NRS - National Roper Supply - Western Wear, tack, team ropes, horse tack, team roping ropes, bits...

I've never used a bitless bridle; however have read where Dr. Cook has remarked on the importance of NOT having the cross-under straps run through a ring. I think the Nutural ones have the aforementioned ring.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Dr Cook bridles run through a ring as well.


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

horseluver that nurtural is the bitless i told you about. We got it for my gelding because he was like your horse, unhappy with the bit. We got the sizing they said would fit him and it was too tight, not well fitting. The nylon was super stiff and no matter what we did we couldn't soften it. Lastly when you pull on the reins for a halt or half-halt they did not slip back through the rings when released. Just a warningabout that bridle. I don't want you to waste $90 like I did.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I apologize for posting on something on which I have no hands on experience or knowledge, I should have posed it as a question. 

This is regarding the similarity of Dr Cooks Bitless bridle where the crossunder straps are not connected to each other, and the Nutural Bitless Bridle where they are connected with their patented Circle-X. 

There are many home-made bitless bridles on eBay where there is a metal ring that the crossunder straps run through between the poll and the nose, and I jumped to the conclusion that this was where the straps did not release when Beau Baby tried one. I went to both websites today and see that could not have been the case with either one of them.

I did try an Indian bosal made of leather and did not get good response from Elwood; however, that was 2 years ago just after moving him to the current barn and he was not comfortable there yet. 

Before that I borrowed a Gawani Pony Boy rope bridle, he went very well in it right off the bat. I have been looking for a used one since but have not found one.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Beau Baby said:


> Just a warningabout that bridle. I don't want you to waste $90 like I did.


I have a biothane and nylon nurtural bridle and both work well for me. They nylon is soft for me; not super soft and floppy, but not stiff at all. I use them for trail riding and giving lessons with. (horses intended for showing, as well as riders looking to show, all ride with a bit) The nurtural bridles IME give more release when riding than the dr cook bridles.

The $90 isn't wasted as both Nurtural and Cook have a 30-day guarantee. If you do not like the bridle, you can send it back for a refund.


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## Beau Baby (Oct 28, 2008)

Hmm luvs2ride I wonder if it was just the one I got or what.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

vivache said:


> In my discipline, we don't touch bitless anything. We ride 2-handed with curbs(I use a wonder gag) at shows. I use a snaffle at the moment, to restore headshake, but we'll be going back to the wonderbit in spring.
> 
> Anything has the power to harm your horse. The crossunder does create leverage.


:shock: What on earth discipline is this?


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

Spastic_Dove said:


> :shock: What on earth discipline is this?


I ride gaited horses. Saddleseat.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I didn't know you could ride them in wonder gags? 
I don't know much about showing gaited breeds though. 
Learn something new every day.


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

I prefer them-- the horse I ride is far softer in the wonderbit than in the low port she was in at first. More headshake and less pace. 

Aaanyway.


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