# Confo critique: Zippie AQHA/APHA/AjPHA gelding



## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

This is my horse Zippie. he is a western/english pleasure show horse. Please critique him thx. 



























his eye is very weird...lol


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

sorry bout the pics being so big


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm sorry but I have to step in and be a bandage nazi - WHO taught you to wrap polos?! Your blue polos are on extremely wrong, are you aware you can do serious damage to the legs of a horse by applying bandages the wrong way?


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Beautiful horse. In the first picture he looks just a tad "knee over" and a little too straight for my liking in the pasterns, but not that bad. Just watch because this can put a little extra stress on that navicular bone. It looks like you are doing western pleasure so not much of a worry. If you were jumping or barrel racing I would be a little concerned.

I agree with the polo wraps. My very first horse, a little arab, when I was ten bowed a tendon because I thought I was going to be "cool" and put polo wraps on him. Did it completely wrong, barrel raced him and bam....bowed tendon. I would have someone show you the correct way those go on.


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> Beautiful horse. In the first picture he looks just a tad "knee over" and a little too straight for my liking in the pasterns, but not that bad. Just watch because this can put a little extra stress on that navicular bone. It looks like you are doing western pleasure so not much of a worry. If you were jumping or barrel racing I would be a little concerned.
> 
> I agree with the polo wraps. My very first horse, a little arab, when I was ten bowed a tendon because I thought I was going to be "cool" and put polo wraps on him. Did it completely wrong, barrel raced him and bam....bowed tendon. I would have someone show you the correct way those go on.


yes his pasterns are very straight. weve worried about the possibility of navicular also, but we have put egg bar shoes on him


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

kmacdougall said:


> I'm sorry but I have to step in and be a bandage nazi - WHO taught you to wrap polos?! Your blue polos are on extremely wrong, are you aware you can do serious damage to the legs of a horse by applying bandages the wrong way?


so please tell me the "corect" way.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

sorelhorse said:


> so please tell me the "corect" way.


It is near impossible to describe this to you on the internet, but I will try my best. 
First of all, you must start with the end of the polo on the inside of the leg, about 2 inches down from the knee. Wrap across the front of the leg, (never start in the direction that would require you to wrap across the back.) Maintaining even tension, continue down the leg. You want to dip slightly across the inside of the pastern, coming over across the back, and then pulling in an upward direction, to create an upside down "V" in the front of the leg. Continue wrapping at even tension, going up about a half polo-width per turn. Carry on to just under the knee, then wrap back down about 2 inches. *The velcro on your bandage must be securely fastened across the front of the cannon. If it is in the back, or either side, it is creating pressure and is dangerously damaging the tendons of your horse.* If you cannot get your bandage to conform to these parameters, you are using the wrong size bandage. Most fleece can be easily cut if too long, but if too short, you need to buy new ones.
These are basic directions but please, if you love your horse, don't bandage unless someone with bandaging experience assists you a few times first. Trust me, polos applied incorrectly are doing more damage then your horse knocking against his own legs. If you're hell bent on protecting his legs and don't have lots of bandaging experience, stick with boots.

ETA: the polo on his left foreleg is wrapped in the wrong direction, pushing the superficial digital flexor tendon (which runs down the back of his leg) to the outside. This is *MAJOR TENDON DAMAGE!!!!!!* Please don't ever do this, and, as long as he's not lame now, you'll be okay. However polos are full on skin contact and they don't give that tendon the opportunity to move when wrapped at the right consistency. This is a cause of bowed tendons.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

Here:

you can clearly see the upside down "V" as well as the CE brand on the end of the polos, which is in the front of the legs. I hope you'll learn to bandage and bandage well because it's a great skill to have.


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

hey thanks for the info

though i was always taught to go all the way down the leg because the point of a polo wrap is to protect the tendons-arent there tendons on the bottom of the leg also?

also-the part where you said "Wrap across the front of the leg, (never start in the direction that would require you to wrap across the back." maybe im misunderstanding your words, but if you wrap across the front of the leg, doesnt that pull the tendon outwards? i always thought you wanted the tendon to be wrapped inwards.

but other than that i found your article helpfull and will definitly do better with the wraps


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

sorelhorse said:


> hey thanks for the info
> 
> though i was always taught to go all the way down the leg because the point of a polo wrap is to protect the tendons-arent there tendons on the bottom of the leg also?
> 
> ...


Ok. If you start on the inside of either leg and wrap across the front you'll be turning the tendons inward on both legs, which, you are correct, is what you want to do. As for the issue of how far down to wrap them, you want to just cover the pastern. If you go lower, the shape of the leg is going to make tightening the polo and keeping it from sagging impossible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

kmacdougall said:


> Ok. If you start on the inside of either leg and wrap across the front you'll be turning the tendons inward on both legs, which, you are correct, is what you want to do. As for the issue of how far down to wrap them, you want to just cover the pastern. If you go lower, the shape of the leg is going to make tightening the polo and keeping it from sagging impossible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


haha ok thanks for clearin it all up


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

bump


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## jagman6201 (Mar 13, 2009)

I'll give you a brief confo critique -- just the points thats really stand out:

1. Generally straight shoulder - ideally should be 45 degrees, your boy has more of a 60 degree give or take. Not "bad", but straighter than ideal and I bet you can feel the concussion if you ask him to step out. This angle is mimicked in his pastern angle. Not bad, but not _good_ either. 

2. Level back - but long in comparison to his shoulder and hip. 

3. Short croup and long loins - not a good mix, but a rather common one; my paint gelding has the same set up. You'll really need to make him use his back correctly while riding or he _will_ break down through the loins as he ages. 

4. He is post legged and sickle hocked, while I don't like it - it obviously makes some people out there happy because its bred A LOT. 

5. Overall, he is generally balanced and is pretty cute - he has his faults, but hey, every horse does. 

I agree with the above posters about wrapping polos correct; it's better just to get sport boots or leave him bare if you do not know how to do it right.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

I've got my fire extinguisher ready, because I'm pretty certain I'm going to get flamed for saying this but...
So far as bandaging goes, it does not matter what direction you wrap in, as long as the tentsion is across the front of the cannon bone with every turn and is EVEN tension. If you are wrapping with enough tension to pull the tendons in either direction, you are wrapping too tight. If you choose to go opposite directions, fine, but you are not going to lame a horse by wrapping in a certain direction. I pretty much wrap legs for a living and always wrap every leg closckwise. I have never lamed one up yet doing it that way.
Anyhow...
I think I have critiqued this horse before. Have you asked for a critique on him before? He's cute and seems like a real nice performance type, but he does have a steep shoulder and he seems kinda posty behind but soooo many stock horses are built this way now and they perform great. Those are some pretty nifty egg bar shoes. are they aluminium? Otherwise they look super heavy -there are lighter options for foot sore horses although I also see he has a bit of a rolled toe to ease his breakover too...do you feel the shoe affects his movement? Or is this shoeing arrangement like this in order to give him more sweep and less knee and not for lameness issues?


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

shesinthebarn said:


> I've got my fire extinguisher ready, because I'm pretty certain I'm going to get flamed for saying this but...
> So far as bandaging goes, it does not matter what direction you wrap in, as long as the tentsion is across the front of the cannon bone with every turn and is EVEN tension. If you are wrapping with enough tension to pull the tendons in either direction, you are wrapping too tight. If you choose to go opposite directions, fine, but you are not going to lame a horse by wrapping in a certain direction. I pretty much wrap legs for a living and always wrap every leg closckwise. I have never lamed one up yet doing it that way.
> 
> I always thought the point of leg wraps was to wrap the tendon lightly to the inside, so it avoids damage and or strain.
> ...


He was actually bred for halter and was second paint horse halter in the world. and amazingly he cam move pretty well. the problem though would be his feet. he has a VERY small case of navicular, so were putting aluminum shoes on him.


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

Jag6201 said:


> I'll give you a brief confo critique -- just the points thats really stand out:
> 
> 1. Generally straight shoulder - ideally should be 45 degrees, your boy has more of a 60 degree give or take. Not "bad", but straighter than ideal and I bet you can feel the concussion if you ask him to step out. This angle is mimicked in his pastern angle. Not bad, but not _good_ either.
> 
> ...


good critique! love it. but i just have to say he is standing a little funny in this picture and usually doesnt. i think it was the way i asked him to square up


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

shesinthebarn said:


> I've got my fire extinguisher ready, because I'm pretty certain I'm going to get flamed for saying this but...
> So far as bandaging goes, it does not matter what direction you wrap in, as long as the tentsion is across the front of the cannon bone with every turn and is EVEN tension. If you are wrapping with enough tension to pull the tendons in either direction, you are wrapping too tight. If you choose to go opposite directions, fine, but you are not going to lame a horse by wrapping in a certain direction. I pretty much wrap legs for a living and always wrap every leg closckwise. I have never lamed one up yet doing it that way.
> Anyhow...


I wrap quite a few horses as well, and learned a lot of what I know from the chef d'equipe of our Olympic eventing team.. As far as I'm concerned, he would know haha.


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

kmacdougall said:


> I wrap quite a few horses as well, and learned a lot of what I know from the chef d'equipe of our Olympic eventing team.. As far as I'm concerned, he would know haha.


id have to agree with you


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

Hey, you don't have to agree, but I don't see the point of directing the tendons either in or out. The tendons should be straight. To do this all that is required is even tension on the front of the cannon bones. I'm not saying either way is wrong.
The horses I wrap are multi-million dollar earners, trained by hall of fame trainers so I'm going to go ahead and say that they know what they are talking about too!


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

shesinthebarn said:


> Hey, you don't have to agree, but I don't see the point of directing the tendons either in or out. The tendons should be straight. To do this all that is required is even tension on the front of the cannon bones. I'm not saying either way is wrong.
> The horses I wrap are multi-million dollar earners, trained by hall of fame trainers so I'm going to go ahead and say that they know what they are talking about too!


Why not just do it the way numerous scientific studies have proven to be the *best* way? I know the last time I was at the Atlantic Veterinary College I saw a framed article on a study they had done on how bandaging affects the tendon that specifically mentioned this issue.
I'd rather go on cold hard scientific fact then a "well I haven't hurt a horse yet". Not saying you will hurt a horse, or you won't, but I'm going to do everything I can in the name of protecting that horse, and to me that means following what people far more knowledgeable then you or I have spent years and hundreds of thousands of dollars researching.


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## shesinthebarn (Aug 1, 2009)

If you could PM me these articles I'd love to see them because I have not been able to find any evidence based research to suggest that either direction is preferable. The trainers/vets I worked for all said it did not matter - the goal is to keep the tendons in the natural/neutral position with even tension. Maybe it's because I wrap racehorses, but 99% of horses at the track are wrapped that way. To each there own. If I was given conclusive evidence that either direction was better, I would most certainly change my ways and present it to the trainers/vets whom I work for - these are the folks who taught me. No, I have not hurt a horse yet, but helped many.
To the OP, sorry for the hijack.


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## horsea (Dec 28, 2009)

No critique, as I'm just getting into QH, but I LOVE his markings. He is gorgeous  (And I love the lady in the first picture with purple breeches and western boots- complete with spurs... it looks a bit like me at 4am on a show morning XD LOL)


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

horsea said:


> No critique, as I'm just getting into QH, but I LOVE his markings. He is gorgeous  (And I love the lady in the first picture with purple breeches and western boots- complete with spurs... it looks a bit like me at 4am on a show morning XD LOL)


aww thanksand your right about the show! so your just getting into qh?


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## horsea (Dec 28, 2009)

Lol, yeah, I've worked with Warmbloods and Arabs my whole life but I'm getting into QH stuff. I'm showing my friends AQHA horse in western and english pleasure and I really love him. I'm thinking about buying one of my own... mb lol


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

horsea said:


> Lol, yeah, I've worked with Warmbloods and Arabs my whole life but I'm getting into QH stuff. I'm showing my friends AQHA horse in western and english pleasure and I really love him. I'm thinking about buying one of my own... mb lol


very cool! so have you been doing the aqha circuit? qh are sooo much fun!


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