# Flipping Crazy Neighbors



## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

For those of you who know from a previous post, the neighbors of the rental house I am living in put their bee hives next to my horses. It has been a month of being patient and asking them to move the bees. They passed their own self put two week deadline two weeks ago. The bees are still here and they added another tier to their hive.

So my landlord and I have had it with them. He offered to pay for a company to move their bees for them, and they refused "nobody touches our bees". My landlord (used to) trust them so much he left all kinds of keys with them *including a key to the house.* Man I AM SO ****ED about that, but I did not tell him that I am angry with him over leaving a key to the house with them. I asked him, and he is OK with it, so I am getting the locks changed ASAP. He told them to hand the keys to me and they did, but I'm worried they may have made a copy or something so I'm taking no chances.

So tonight, I went out to look for the keys. Because they are such weirdos, they refuse to talk to me face to face. So they leave the keys on the gate to the property. I was out there looking for the keys, as my landlord had already asked them 12 hours ago to put the keys out. I had a flashlight and was inspecting the gate for keys, and also putting a padlock and chain around the gate between properties. The wife (who seems to wear the pants and be the real cutie pie of the family) saw me briefly before shutting the front door. A minute later, there are 2-3 shots fired on their property. It was dark, I couldn't see who was out there with a gun, but it was their property so it's pretty clear it was them.

_were they firing warning shots at me?

_You know, it takes a lot to rattle my chain. I draw the line at guns. I also came home today to find the gate to my horse turnout open. It didn't seem like they had been on the property, but I find it odd because the horses have been here for two months and my gate savvy mare hasn't opened it once.

I am changing the locks and then we are getting bee traps set up to catch the bees and safely relocate them without hurting them. These people are nuts and I'm a little worried about the safety of my horses. They have horses too, so I'm assuming they wouldn't hurt them, but then I saw them out in their paddock the other day "herding" the horses with a quad. WTH.

Then I hear from my landlord that the wife next door was spewing all kinds of crap about me and my family. All we've done is ask them to move their hives. We have barely talked to them, done nothing but go about our own business. I even let her know once that her guineas were out on the road, but she says "oh that's OK they go everywhere". Well if one gets on my property and my dogs eat it, that is not my fault.

I am calling PD in morning to find out about things like warning shots. Not that I'm filing a report, but I don't think there would be one since I didn't even see who did it. I am seriously considering a nice, big, mean LGD. My dogs know them somewhat, and are more bark than bite.

What is wrong with these people?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Like Judge Judy says, if you don't like it, move! Bees, gunfire, nah, I would be out of there, not a battle I would care to fight if I was renting and could pick up and go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Yep, I think I'd be looking for other accommodation asap. In the interim, if you can afford it, perhaps some hidden cameras in strategic locations. 

On the 'shooting' front, if you even remotely think that they were shots meant for you I'd be reporting it that way to the police - in instances like this I think it so important to make the police connection even though things seem insignificant or you don't want to make waves.

Best of luck.


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## LemonZeus (Oct 6, 2013)

Oh buddy, I hear you on crazy neighbors. If it's possible, look for a place to move. I know that's not always viable. If you can't, I'd have as little to do with them as possible.

I've lived in my house for years and years and never had a problem with mine. This year has been awful for neighbor troubles. It's so true that good fences make good neighbors.

Hoping you get a speedy resolution. Sounds like more crazy than I'd care to deal with.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Welllll.... in all fairness, if it is their property, surely they should be allowed to keep bees if they feel like? I dunno, just my opinion.

I'd consider looking for a new place, too, if they're as crazy as you say.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Plans have been set and moving is not really an option. They are fraidy cats because they avoid me at all costs and do things sneakily behind my back. They won't confront me face to face. I'm pretty sure that they opened that horse gate. Thankfully, the only horse with access to the turnout doesn't care for wandering. She just cares about her food.

I am loving living out here (except the neighbors), and if we did move we are back to the suburbs and boarding our horses, which I hate. It's just for 6 months that we are here while our property is built. I have padlocked all gates so they don't have access over here anymore unless they climbed the gate, which I don't think they would. They are not exactly athletic, and for being ambitious hobby farmers they complain a lot about health problems and being sore. Landlord already said he is selling this place after we leave. I don't blame him (he used to have horses, now he doesn't... not really any reason for him to live in middle of nowhere).

If things really escalated, yes we could leave. Right now, I just don't think it's worth it. These people don't have any real backbone, they just like to play games. Why would they fire warning shots at me, an 18 year old girl, when I was not trespassing, bothering their animals, or anything of the sort? In fact, I just turned 18 so they don't even know that, so they were really firing warning shots at a minor.

I think that a livestock guardian dog might be a good addition. Any breed suggestions for hot weather? I already have 2 medium sized female shepherd mixes, a cat, 3 parrots, and 2 horses. I like how many LGD are the "strong silent types", that don't usually bark unless there is a real threat. The neighbors clearly unintelligent rottweilers (I hate saying that about them since they are animals, but I have lived next to them for 2 months and those dogs are not smart at all) run to the fence at the sight of me and bark, though I am a regular sight to them. I don't want a dog like that.

For those of you who live in the country, what do you think about this whole "warning shot" thing? Is it something I should be concerned about?


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Zexious said:


> Welllll.... in all fairness, if it is their property, surely they should be allowed to keep bees if they feel like? I dunno, just my opinion.
> 
> I'd consider looking for a new place, too, if they're as crazy as you say.


Not when the bees are placed not even a foot off our fence line. They were out messing with the bees one day and the bees started swarming while I was giving a riding lesson to my mother. The bees stung my mother twice in the face, and she is allergic. The neighbors agreed to move the hives a month ago. They themselves said 2 weeks. It has been a whole month. They refused the landlord's offer to pay a company to move the hives.

So in all fairness, I should be allowed to set up bee traps, just like they should be allowed to keep bees.

*BTW, she told the landlord she plans to have ten beehives. ten.*


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Well since you are in az.
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/grd/4457567471.html

Anatolian Shepherds are good dogs and can take the heat. Also big dogs scare people so they should stay away. Arizona is one of the few states that DON'T have a dieing bee issue. Meaning you can set up traps to get rid of the bees without feeling too bad.Im sorry for the crazy people next door, it seems to be the theme of the year.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Tell them that if someone else gets stung by their bees you will take them to court. Also call the county, i bet someone from the county would be interested to hear about someone having THAT many hives that close to people.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

To add we had a bee issue a few months ago, they where coming out of out electric outlets 0.0. Not a single living thing in the house was stung. The fact anyone got stung by the bees would lead me to believe they are africanized. We have a HUGE killer bee issue here in az.
I know this is for phoenix but it might help you. I would call the county and say you think there is a hive by your horse that might be africanized bees.

Phoenix Municipal Code 8-8 Regulations for keeping within City.

(f) Keeping of bees.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to keep bees on any lot or parcel of land consisting of less than six thousand square feet in area without first having obtained written permission, subject to the provisions of section 8-9, consenting to the keeping of bees on such lot or parcel from all of the lawful occupants and the lawful owners of adjoining lots or parcels of land, as defined in section 8-1, which are located in the immediate vicinity of the property whereon the bees are kept.

(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to keep or maintain more than one hive or colony of bees for each one thousand seven hundred square feet of area within any lot or parcel of land upon which bees are kept or maintained.

(3) No hive or colony of bees shall be kept or maintained within five feet of any boundary line of the lot or parcel upon which the bees are kept.

(4) Any person keeping or maintaining bees within the City shall provide a constant and easily accessible supply of water of sufficient quantity to meet the needs of all bees being maintained.


I hope this helps. Its one thing to be jerks with bees but another if they are starting to become africanized and there are people who are allergic to them! They can kill your animals and your family if there are 10 hives of them! i bet the county office would also be interested to know about 10 hives as well.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horseluvr2524 said:


> For those of you who live in the country, what do you think about this whole "warning shot" thing? Is it something I should be concerned about?


There is a very fine (and fuzzy) line in this situation since you were out there at night with a flashlight. Around here, though, no one would fire a gun as a warning without giving a verbal warning first, even at night unless there was an immediate threat (and being at the property gate is not an immediate threat). The biggest concern is that shots travel a long way, go somewhere, and can wind up in a person or livestock. All that said, though, I don't think there is any advantage to you reporting this particular incident.

Good luck, bad neighbors are a real PITA.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Plans have been set and moving is not really an option. They are fraidy cats because they avoid me at all costs and do things sneakily behind my back. They won't confront me face to face. I'm pretty sure that they opened that horse gate. Thankfully, the only horse with access to the turnout doesn't care for wandering. She just cares about her food.
> 
> I am loving living out here (except the neighbors), and if we did move we are back to the suburbs and boarding our horses, which I hate. It's just for 6 months that we are here while our property is built. I have padlocked all gates so they don't have access over here anymore unless they climbed the gate, which I don't think they would. They are not exactly athletic, and for being ambitious hobby farmers they complain a lot about health problems and being sore. Landlord already said he is selling this place after we leave. I don't blame him (he used to have horses, now he doesn't... not really any reason for him to live in middle of nowhere).
> 
> ...


You are a young person. They probably thought it would be easy to scare you. As for gunshots; most places have laws about how close to a neighbor's house you can discharge a firearm. I would most certainly report it, if only for future reference. Some things a smart person doesn't just "let go".


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

There are usually laws about how far away from inhabited dwellings a shooter must be before discharging a fire arm. Check your local laws. Then call your local sheriff's office and file an incident report.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Zexious said:


> Welllll.... in all fairness, if it is their property, surely they should be allowed to keep bees if they feel like? I dunno, just my opinion.
> 
> I'd consider looking for a new place, too, if they're as crazy as you say.


Agreed. If the county codes allow it they have the right to use the property as they seem fit.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Not when the bees are placed not even a foot off our fence line. They were out messing with the bees one day and the bees started swarming while I was giving a riding lesson to my mother. The bees stung my mother twice in the face, and she is allergic. The neighbors agreed to move the hives a month ago. They themselves said 2 weeks. It has been a whole month. They refused the landlord's offer to pay a company to move the hives.
> 
> So in all fairness, I should be allowed to set up bee traps, just like they should be allowed to keep bees.
> 
> *BTW, she told the landlord she plans to have ten beehives. ten.*


 Yes you could set up bee traps if code allows it. Check you codes and act appropriately. The county will make them move them if they are too close to the property line.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

As for LGD I would suggest either an australian cattle dog/shepard. In my experience they have been the best for deterring unwanted neighbors. (On the other hand I have a German Shepard/Cattle dog mix and I had a neighbor shoot at me, he was pretty effective at getting them to move! ;-) ) 

As for shooting, report it but keep in mind you're in the county. In my state people are allowed to shoot at trespassers, and often do. 

On the note of the hives, as long as they're complying with the codes then there's not much to do other than use a code to set up protection. They do have a right to use their property, even if they are being butts for being the way they are. :/


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

To those saying that the neighbour should be allowed to keep his bees where he wants, I suggest they read the OP's original thread. 

I started with those thoughts but I then came to the conclusion that bee keepers also have responsibility to be sensible. 

The neighbours could have place the hives on their property where they would NOT cause problems, but they didn't. They put them right next to their property boundary near to the OP's land, and they didn't respond sensibly or kindly when their bees swarmed and caused major problems.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you ShropShireRosie. I am getting tired of hearing the "it's their land they can do what they want" litany. They are not responsible people or compassionate at all. I have been so patient in this. A couple weeks ago, the bees were coming after me when I was out trying to clean stalls, they were literally dive bombing my face. There is a corner of the turn out that I can't even clean up because of those bees. Where they placed those hives, literally directly on my fence line and no wooden fence to get the bees to fly up and over, shows a complete lack of consideration. They don't care about our safety.

I and my landlord have spent quite a bit of time on the phone with the county. No one seems to be able to do anything. I find it ridiculous. Even out here, there should be laws about keeping certain animals on a fence line.

But, if it is their right to keep bees where they want, then it is mine to set up bee traps where I want. _They_ are the ones who have gotten mean and blown this way out of proportion. Not me. We were very courteous to them, and the point is they agreed to move the hives in the first place. Now they are giving an excuse every week "maybe next week. The bee suit hasn't arrived yet. Wife hurt her back." They are backing out on their word.

As far as the warning shot goes, she knew that I was out there looking for keys. It's a little excessive IMO. She did not give me a verbal warning. And she knows that I'm harmless. I'm not a big gun fan, so yeah I'm offended. I can't believe they use them so freely.

I am really tempted to get a very loud Amazon, Macaw, or Cockatoo, and set up an aviary outside and let them scream as much as they want. A screaming parrot is one of the most annoying things in the world, and the sound really carries. There are plenty of screamers that need a good home. Or peacocks. Those can be annoying.

Yes, I am looking at Anatolian Shepherds. They seem like the best bet. Now I just have to talk my mom into it.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

Are there any birds that eat bees?


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

Maybe call a reputable bee company and tell them of your situation and ask if they have any suggestions. Tell them you don't want to kill the bess, but you feel threatened by them due to their location and ask if they have any suggestions. You never know if they might have a good idea.

Birds, lizards, frogs, and even skunks can predate bees. They are pretty low on the food chain.

We have had Akbash and Pyrennes guardian dogs. They are fabulous, but I am not sure how they would do in the Arizona heat. The Akbash have a shorter coat, so maybe check them out. Even when we don't have livestock, we keep a guardian for the property and to control skunks and possum, which are a problem here because of EPM. 

Good luck. I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Here is the link to my county. If anyone would be willing to help me look for codes, that would be great. I don't think there are any though because I have spent a lot of time looking and calling people, but lets see what you find.

Home -


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Shropshirerosie said:


> Are there any birds that eat bees?


Well, they have guineas, turkeys, and chickens that run loose on their property. I would hazard a no.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

Did I read correctly that they have guineas? I am surprised the guineas aren't eating the bees. I am allergic to bees and wasps and I have kept guineas to help control the wasps.

Also, I don't know if this will work with bees, but I have used these to control wasps. We don't have many bees here so I can't speak to the effect on bees.

Amazon.com : Tanglefoot 300000430 Waspinator : Pest Control Traps : Patio, Lawn & Garden

I have seen ONE wasp since I have put them up, and I usually have them all over. Maybe hang a few along the fence line (obviously, where the horses can't get at them).

Found this also but haven't tried it yet.
http://www.amazon.com/FMI-Brands-In...TF8&qid=1400514986&sr=8-1&keywords=wasp+decoy


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

Some links that may (or may not) be useful:

Talk to the code compliance folks:
Code Compliance - Home

Beekeepers Association. They may have some suggestions. I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened. 
http://www.azbaca.org


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Plans have been set and moving is not really an option. They are fraidy cats because they avoid me at all costs and do things sneakily behind my back. They won't confront me face to face. I'm pretty sure that they opened that horse gate. Thankfully, the only horse with access to the turnout doesn't care for wandering. She just cares about her food.
> 
> I am loving living out here (except the neighbors), and if we did move we are back to the suburbs and boarding our horses, which I hate. It's just for 6 months that we are here while our property is built. I have padlocked all gates so they don't have access over here anymore unless they climbed the gate, which I don't think they would. They are not exactly athletic, and for being ambitious hobby farmers they complain a lot about health problems and being sore. Landlord already said he is selling this place after we leave. I don't blame him (he used to have horses, now he doesn't... not really any reason for him to live in middle of nowhere).
> 
> ...




Is it just me that finds I rude of people to let their dogs bark at people on their own property? Don't think it's right to have to hear a dog constant barking if you're just enjoying a day out. My dogs get in big trouble if they bark t neighbors, which they rarely do. But my other neighborhoods it's stupid *** dogs bark and bark and bark. Seriously. Makes it not even nice to go in our own yard.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

The bee traps would be put up by a company. They release a pheromone that draws the bees in, humanely captures them, and it only takes a couple hours. Then the bees are relocated. I'm letting my landlord call the shots on all of it. That way, they really can't blame me.

I am suspecting that someone was messing with my horses. I went out today to feed and found one of the gates with the chain done up in a different way than I do it. I'll call my mom today to find out if it was her, but I'm really feeling like I need to get a good dog to guard the property.

On a cute side story, my dogs were out chasing things as always. I went outside and saw Chelsea with something in her mouth. At first I thought it was a rat, then realized it was a baby rabbit. It was frozen in fear, but oddly enough she didn't hurt it. She set it on the ground, waited for it to run, it played dead and she got bored and left. So I went over, picked it up, and petted it for a couple minutes seeing if it was injured. She hadn't hurt it at all, amazingly. After a couple minutes it came back to its senses, jumped out of my hands and ran under the shed. I bet it was glad that my dogs knew the command leave it :wink:


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

Janna said:


> Is it just me that finds I rude of people to let their dogs bark at people on their own property? Don't think it's right to have to hear a dog constant barking if you're just enjoying a day out. My dogs get in big trouble if they bark t neighbors, which they rarely do. But my other neighborhoods it's stupid *** dogs bark and bark and bark. Seriously. Makes it not even nice to go in our own yard.


In a neighborhood, maybe. Out in the country I think it's different. We NEED the dog to bark to keep the place safe from predators.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

horseluvr, a video cam might not be a bad idea. If they are pulling stupid stuff now, I wouldn't expect it to get better and a video can mean the difference between catching them before they really do something stupid and not being able to pin something on them if they try to get away with it.

Good luck.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

So just talked to the code people again. They remembered me, explained that they had looked into it quite a bit, and there was nothing that they could do. So at this point, bee traps are the only solution. They will be ****ed though. That's why I want an LGD. My dogs are too nice and know them, they won't keep them away.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

How far away can I set up the video cam? There is a tree about 20 feet diagonally from the horse stalls, but if it's that far away I am not sure it would catch their face.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

IMO, the Akbash is hands down the best LGD. Just take care introducing it to your other dogs and animals. 

Akbash Dog Information and Pictures, Flock Guardian dogs

Shorter coat than a Pyrenees. Mine did fine in the south Texas summers. Not quite AZ, but not too far off. 

The downside is they have shorter lifespans, so be prepared for that. They get big. Our last one was 175 lbs and a big teddy bear around people he knew but scared the pants off strangers. We never had a stray ANYTHING--two legs or four--with him around.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Looking at a few anatolian shepherds. The one thing that concerns me about these dogs is it says they are friendly with strangers, which would not help me at all. And I really need just a single male dog, since I have 2 female dogs.

Petfinder Adoptable | Dog | Great Pyrenees | St. Johns, AZ | Bob and Betty

Petfinder Adoptable | Dog | Anatolian Shepherd | Show Low, AZ | ARIZONA "BOB"


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> How far away can I set up the video cam? There is a tree about 20 feet diagonally from the horse stalls, but if it's that far away I am not sure it would catch their face.


Depends on the resolution of the camera. The prices have come down a lot so it shouldn't be too hard on your wallet.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

If at all possible, find a dog field born and raised with a herd of something. The imprinting makes all the difference in the world.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Looking at a few anatolian shepherds. The one thing that concerns me about these dogs is it says they are friendly with strangers, which would not help me at all. And I really need just a single male dog, since I have 2 female dogs.
> 
> Petfinder Adoptable | Dog | Great Pyrenees | St. Johns, AZ | Bob and Betty
> 
> Petfinder Adoptable | Dog | Anatolian Shepherd | Show Low, AZ | ARIZONA "BOB"



I know a few Anatolians, and owned a couple. NONE of them were at all friendly with strangers.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Frieda said:


> IMO, the Akbash is hands down the best LGD. Just take care introducing it to your other dogs and animals.
> 
> Akbash Dog Information and Pictures, Flock Guardian dogs
> 
> ...


I've got a question: what on earth do you do with a dog like that when you go on vacation? How can you have a pet sitter take care of the dog when they are so wary and stranger aggressive?


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I've got a question: what on earth do you do with a dog like that when you go on vacation? How can you have a pet sitter take care of the dog when they are so wary and stranger aggressive?


You kennel them for the duration, and set up to feed and water from the outside.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

I don't know these people, so I am NOT recommending them, but this might be the type of dog that will be better suited for your needs:

https://www.facebook.com/azguardiandogs
Wagon Wheel Ranch - Livestock Guard Dogs

A link page:
Livestock Guardian Dogs Links!

I can also ask my mother. She's the goat lady in the family and has a lot of contacts. She may know of someone in your area.


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## Janna (Apr 19, 2012)

My great Dane is awesome at guarding. She's never offered to bite but does bark and growl very mean and her size alone is scary lol 
Andd she's excellent with my other animals..can be clumsy and accidentally squish a real small one but she has been with cats.. horses.. goats.. cows and never a problem,


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I've got a question: what on earth do you do with a dog like that when you go on vacation? How can you have a pet sitter take care of the dog when they are so wary and stranger aggressive?


Our dogs have been fine with people they have been introduced to. It only takes a few introductions. 

Also, the dogs come off as aggressive, but tend not to actually be aggressive unless really, really pushed. At least that's been the case for the LGDs I've been around, which are more than a few since about every second or third farm around here has one or several.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Frieda said:


> I don't know these people, so I am NOT recommending them, but this might be the type of dog that will be better suited for your needs:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/azguardiandogs
> Wagon Wheel Ranch - Livestock Guard Dogs
> ...


I don't have $800 to spend on a dog. And it's not like I need the dog to literally be in with the horses. There is no climb all the way around the horses so the dogs can't even get in. I just need something that will guard the property, and is less animal aggressive.

What do you all think of this guy?

AKC kuvaz


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Janna said:


> My great Dane is awesome at guarding. She's never offered to bite but does bark and growl very mean and her size alone is scary lol
> Andd she's excellent with my other animals..can be clumsy and accidentally squish a real small one but she has been with cats.. horses.. goats.. cows and never a problem,


I ADORE great danes! It's the really short life span and high cost of health care that I can't do at this point in time. I really think an LGD is the way to go for right now. Someday I'll get my dane :wink:


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Frieda said:


> Our dogs have been fine with people they have been introduced to. It only takes a few introductions.
> 
> Also, the dogs come off as aggressive, but tend not to actually be aggressive unless really, really pushed. At least that's been the case for the LGDs I've been around, which are more than a few since about every second or third farm around here has one or several.


Our petsitter is a retired lady. She may be able to stay for a few days with us before we leave. Would that work?


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

On the unwanted two-legged intruders, big dog discussion, these are my thoughts. Which I will not be at all offended if you ignore 

Were you looking for another dog? If no, then..... don't be bounced into the extra cost (and big dogs cost more to keep, especially the likes of Great Danes)

Your neighbours are clearly easily wound up, and quite irrational. I could imagine that your Big Dog purchase might result in their Bigger Dog purchase. Or their 'accidental releasing of their dobermans/rotties'. OR the sudden appearance of poisoned meat on your boundaries 

I DO like the camera idea - I believe that a few well placed security cameras, along with the recording equipment, together with a nice public visit from your local law-enforcement gentlemen may do a better job of making crazies back off a bit.

And I also think that trapping the bees is an excellent idea.


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## Luvs Horses (Jan 9, 2014)

I hope u made a police report on the shooting instance. If you are determined to stay until your place is ready you need to have a paper trail on the shenanigans the bad neighbors are pulling. 
It is clear they do not care about your safety and appear to be trying to chase you off.
Game cameras with night vision are affordable. Check these out along with the cost of security cameras.
Have you thought about looking into if there is a way to capture and test to see if the bees are africanized? 
Last thing u need is africanized bees next door. If they are it may get the law more behind you to force the neighbors to get rid of the bees. 
Hope you can get back to enjoying peace again soon. Be careful, and call the law when they start pulling stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

One of the best ways I know to keep people off your property is to install a hotwire all the way around, and KEEP it hot.


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

Shropshirerosie said:


> To those saying that the neighbour should be allowed to keep his bees where he wants, I suggest they read the OP's original thread.
> 
> I started with those thoughts but I then came to the conclusion that bee keepers also have responsibility to be sensible.
> 
> The neighbours could have place the hives on their property where they would NOT cause problems, but they didn't. They put them right next to their property boundary near to the OP's land, and they didn't respond sensibly or kindly when their bees swarmed and caused major problems.


Maybe the neighbors are hoping to get a piece of adjoining land for cheap after they drive the new renters away?? :wink:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I would not want a dog that is going to protect a property from friends. Too risky and could be fatal. 

I want a dog I can train and intelligent enough to know friend from foe. My GSD is just that. She rarely barks, welcomes delivery drivers, postman, refuse collectors et al but, get someone with the intention of doing wrong she knows when their adrenalin is up and will act accordingly.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

OK, so working on getting a report filed. My mom doesn't know about the warning shot incident from last night. I'm a little worried about how to go about telling her, as she tends to act out of emotion. I don't feel that it is necessary to leave the property. As I said these people are total wimps and very underhanded about everything. They don't like confrontation or drama, but have no problem causing it apparently.

How should I go about telling my mother? Should I wait? She was ready to pull us out over the bees, I don't want to think about what she would do with something like this. I personally don't want to give up. I want to get these people to stop, because they will just deceive and use and then cause trouble for the next owners/tenants. We give up and leave, and then they win.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> I would not want a dog that is going to protect a property from friends. Too risky and could be fatal.
> 
> I want a dog I can train and intelligent enough to know friend from foe. My GSD is just that. She rarely barks, welcomes delivery drivers, postman, refuse collectors et al but, get someone with the intention of doing wrong she knows when their adrenalin is up and will act accordingly.


The kuvasz I have been looking at is like that. They are low key, and easy going, but will defend if necessary. I agree, the main thing that puts me off about many LGD and other guard dogs is the problem of controlling them. They are bred to think and make their own decisions.

The neighbor's rotties can and will hurt anyone, even a child, who comes on the property. They have to lock the dogs up when they have friends over.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Our petsitter is a retired lady. She may be able to stay for a few days with us before we leave. Would that work?


A few visits should be fine for the LGDs I've had.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I don't have $800 to spend on a dog. And it's not like I need the dog to literally be in with the horses. There is no climb all the way around the horses so the dogs can't even get in. I just need something that will guard the property, and is less animal aggressive.
> 
> What do you all think of this guy?
> 
> AKC kuvaz


Understandable. Dogs can be pricey. 

I'd give that one a look. Might work out well. If it comes from working lines and hasn't been totally socialized to strangers it should be a good dog. See how it responds to you. If it's not wary of you when you visit it, I'd think twice about how it would do as a guardian.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> I would not want a dog that is going to protect a property from friends. Too risky and could be fatal.
> 
> I want a dog I can train and intelligent enough to know friend from foe. My GSD is just that. She rarely barks, welcomes delivery drivers, postman, refuse collectors et al but, get someone with the intention of doing wrong she knows when their adrenalin is up and will act accordingly.


I've had LGDs and I've had GSDs and Belgian Shepherds. I'd put good money on the LGD being safer liability wise than a GSD or Belgian. LGDs bark. I've never known one to bite if not directly threatened, and even then they tend to hesitate. I can't say I've seen the same in protection-type breeds.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Also found this guy. There is a video of him. He acts a little hyped up in the video, but it says he is "shy" at first and then warms up.

Petfinder Adoptable | Dog | Kuvasz | Show Low, AZ | Little Guy


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## Luvs Horses (Jan 9, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> OK, so working on getting a report filed. My mom doesn't know about the warning shot incident from last night. I'm a little worried about how to go about telling her, as she tends to act out of emotion. I don't feel that it is necessary to leave the property. As I said these people are total wimps and very underhanded about everything. They don't like confrontation or drama, but have no problem causing it apparently.
> 
> How should I go about telling my mother? Should I wait? She was ready to pull us out over the bees, I don't want to think about what she would do with something like this. I personally don't want to give up. I want to get these people to stop, because they will just deceive and use and then cause trouble for the next owners/tenants. We give up and leave, and then they win.


Be honest and tell her. Are you living with her in this rental? If so, she is in as much danger as you.
No dog is going to keep you safe if the neighbors are shooting at you. Sorry, but your neighbors are dangerous. If they are willing to shoot at you they are willing to kill you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Frieda said:


> I've had LGDs and I've had GSDs and Belgian Shepherds. I'd put good money on the LGD being safer liability wise than a GSD or Belgian. LGDs bark. I've never known one to bite if not directly threatened, and even then they tend to hesitate. I can't say I've seen the same in protection-type breeds.


I know nothing of LGDs, a lot of experience with GSDs. The ***** I have now is well trained, she is so laid back it is a wonder she can stand! When necessary she can play her part. She is safe with children to the point of believing she is their nanny. She will lie by a baby in a buggy and come find me when it wakes. On one occasion she came to get me and was in a fret. A child staying with my boss had crawled out the house and under the rails into the field with mares and foals, the foals were naturally curious and baby in great danger.

I just love GSDs for their intelligence to reason.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Luvs Horses said:


> Be honest and tell her. Are you living with her in this rental? If so, she is in as much danger as you.
> No dog is going to keep you safe if the neighbors are shooting at you. Sorry, but your neighbors are dangerous. If they are willing to shoot at you they are willing to kill you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They will be moving out here next weekend. The shots were in no way aimed near or at me, or I would be raising hell.

A police officer called them (after I had told her the whole story) and then called me back basically on their side. They are so good at twisting words and manipulating people. Coincidentally timed gun shots were blamed on firing at coyotes. Yeah right. Then the PO went on to tell me that "I should just try to work with them because they seem like really nice peaceable people". So I told that PO that they were the ones who set the moving bee hives deadline, they are the ones not moving them and going back on their word. I also told her that anytime I want to go out and clean up after the horses, I have to do it within ten feet of the hives, and that my mother was stung twice in the face and she is allergic so her whole face swelled up. I also told her that they are supposed to provide water for the bees and they don't, so the bees are always at my horse's waters. I'm not sure that the PO was ever back on my side, but whatever. It was so disheartening to have her call me back with the neighbor's old tired litany that they just want to be peaceful people keeping animals. They are very manipulative, because then they go behind your back and are so unbelievably rude. They actually used my landlord's water (hooked up a hose to a spigot on our property, ran it through the fence over to theirs) without his permission or knowledge, which is really screwed up because we have wells, not city lines.


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## Luvs Horses (Jan 9, 2014)

Glad you spoke with the police. Even if they denied it, it is on record. 
So the neighbors are moving? That would be good. Hopefully the bees will go with them. 
Just be cautious and safe. Hope all works out good for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Luvs Horses said:


> Glad you spoke with the police. Even if they denied it, it is on record.
> So the neighbors are moving? That would be good. Hopefully the bees will go with them.
> Just be cautious and safe. Hope all works out good for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, the neighbors are not moving (I wish!). I meant my mother and brother (and our parrots) are moving out here next weekend.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

What about those pesticide sprays that kill bees? If they fly on your property they die.

something like this?
25,000 Dead Bees in Target Store Parking Lot : Discovery News

Be sure to get an epi-pen from your doctor, if you are allergic (or your mom).


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

You said you are only living there for 6 months? I would strongly advise against getting a dog simply to scare your neighbors, especially if you aren't even going to be there long-term. Plus, they have a large breed guard type dogs themselves, I highly doubt you will scare them by getting one of your own. I think you should just drop the idea of getting a dog all together. It's not going to help you any. 

As far as the bees go, do some research before putting out any traps. Since the bees actually belong to the neighbors I would wonder if they could come after you with some sort of legal action for trapping and removing them. Think of the bees as livestock. they have purchased them and are planning on using them for whatever. You setting up the traps might be compared to luring someones chickens onto your property, trapping them, and taking them off somewhere. Obviously, it gets a little muddy with the bees being able to cross back and forth over the property line so easily (as far as proving they'd come onto your property on their own vs being lured by the traps), but I would hate to see you spend all this time and effort to remove the bees, only to have the neighbors charge you with stealing their property. You could end up having to pay to replace the bees you paid to remove.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Amba1027 said:


> You said you are only living there for 6 months? I would strongly advise against getting a dog simply to scare your neighbors, especially if you aren't even going to be there long-term. Plus, they have a large breed guard type dogs themselves, I highly doubt you will scare them by getting one of your own. I think you should just drop the idea of getting a dog all together. It's not going to help you any.
> 
> As far as the bees go, do some research before putting out any traps. Since the bees actually belong to the neighbors I would wonder if they could come after you with some sort of legal action for trapping and removing them. Think of the bees as livestock. they have purchased them and are planning on using them for whatever. You setting up the traps might be compared to luring someones chickens onto your property, trapping them, and taking them off somewhere. Obviously, it gets a little muddy with the bees being able to cross back and forth over the property line so easily (as far as proving they'd come onto your property on their own vs being lured by the traps), but I would hate to see you spend all this time and effort to remove the bees, only to have the neighbors charge you with stealing their property. You could end up having to pay to replace the bees you paid to remove.


Honestly, this is what I worry about the most. However, I don't think there is much they could do. Bees are very different from livestock, poultry, or other animals. Everyone keeps saying "well, there must be something the county/government can do". No, there isn't. The department's really wanted to help me, but in their own words "our hands are tied". It is their right to keep bees on their property. It is ours to put up traps on our side. It is difficult to define ownership with bees as they just go everywhere, and a bee from a wild hive a mile away is no different from a bee from their hive ten feet away.

Also, I am having our landlord do all dealings with them. He is paying for bee removal so if they want to get mean, we do not have any liability. I mean really, how can it be OK for them to have bee hives, and even state that they are going to get ten, in a place where it is a liability and danger to other people and animals. Yet I get in trouble for setting up bee traps? I don't think so. I'll do some research online and see if there is a similar case, and if the bee traps were unlawful. I doubt it.

And the dog is out anyway. Mom says no and won't change her mind.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Look at this, in one of the last few paragraphs. It seems "bee stealing" isn't really a thing if another bee keeper is saying "it's good for catching your neighbor's honey bees". Honey bees ignore swarm traps | Honey Bee Suite

And then the third paragraph under "Finding Bees in the Wild" Beekeeping 101: Where to Get Bees

As I thought, stealing would be setting up the traps on their side of the fence. On our property, we can do what we want. If we want to trap bees, we can. And they can't do a thing about it.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Amba1027 said:


> As far as the bees go, do some research before putting out any traps. Since the bees actually belong to the neighbors I would wonder if they could come after you with some sort of legal action for trapping and removing them. Think of the bees as livestock. they have purchased them and are planning on using them for whatever. You setting up the traps might be compared to luring someones chickens onto your property, trapping them, and taking them off somewhere.


Or you might turn the situation around and look at it from the other side. How would you feel if your horses accidentally strayed on to the neighbors' property, and they shot or poisoned them? Certainly people who don't know about horses could see them as a threat, just as people who don't know about domestic honeybees can see them as a threat. Or they might complain about noise, smell of manure, etc.

FWIW, the rancher down the road keeps a couple dozen beehives in summer, right next to the field where his horses are turned out.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

To quote Dr Phil, "No matter how flat a pancake, there are always two sides." 

It seems that these neighbours were good neighbours to other renters, the Landlord had them hols a key to the property. Surely he would not have done that if they hadn't have been so?

It all stems from th bees and probably a clash of personalities. 

We need bees, if they disappear then so will most plants as it is bees that pollinate the plants. Generally speaking bees are not aggressive. I know that there are some species that are but not many people would want to keep them. 

It seems that you are feeding into antagonising each other and that adds fuel to a fire. 

You have moved from the suburbs to a rural area and like many that do this, (and I have seen it so many times) you think country living is meant to be and idyllic way of living but, it has its rough sides.

I am a very easy going person and go out of my way to be social to people around me. If I were your neighbour and you came to me in a pleasant manner, explaining that you were worried about the bees being so close to the fields because your Mother was allergic to their stings, I would move the my hives ASAP. 
If on the other hand you came complaining and annoyed then I probably would not move them.

These people own their own property, they were there before you and your family, they can keep whatever they like on their property. 

You have no proof of other events were caused by them.

You say they are talking about you - aren't you doing exactly the same about them?
Comments to someone they know lie 'The new neighbours are really complaining about the bees.' Can so be altered to much worse like 'The new neighbours are demanding we get rid of the bees.' Gossip is gossip and should be ignored or take with a pinch of salt.

Get your Landlord to act as a mediator, get together and talk it out.


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## ThunderingHooves (Aug 10, 2013)

Just wanted to wish you luck on all this. We've had our share of crazy neighbors as well. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it, since I didn't get a chance to read through all of the posts, but there is a law here in pinal county, don't quite knw for sure sure about else where, that you're not allowed to shoot within 1200 feet of someone's home.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Well you cal also let them know they are paying the next bee related hospital/vet bill.

This is my mother's suggestion but it just may cause issues. She said to get a bee fogger to kill them and use it on your property. Or you can have a "smoke" barrel to keep the bees away from your property while you are doing lessons.

I would call the sheriff the next time someone is stung as well. If you can call for someones animals biting you, you can call for someones bees swarming you.


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## ThunderingHooves (Aug 10, 2013)

Just talked to my dad about it and he said that you can't shoot 1200 feet from any structure. And if you live in the city you're not allowed to even be shooting. 

As for the fogger idea kiger mentioned, couldn't it be considered as protecting you and your animals? 

My dad also mentioned there might be something in the landlord and tenant act. Something about disturbing the peace, I think he said. He's familiar with most of the renting stuff so I would have to ask him again which one he thinks it might be. You might be able to just read up on the acts and see if there is anything that might work. Also is the landlord the same for both properties?


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I ADORE great danes! It's the really short life span and high cost of health care that I can't do at this point in time. I really think an LGD is the way to go for right now. Someday I'll get my dane :wink:


I would think a LGD would come close in cost to a great dane, the higher health care is related to the danes large size and most LGDs are also very large dogs. As for lifespan I don't know the average for a LGD, but for danes I'd say the current average is 10-12 years, not long compared to a small dog, but still worth it!

As for the rest, I'm torn, I am a believer that I can do what I please on my property (lucky for me there isn't a neighbor close enough to even see my house), however I do not like things that sting! I'd never say a neighbor could not have bees, but I will also not promise not to kill the ones that make it over to my property (so it is in the best interest of the neighbors to keep their hives farther away from my place). Although if possible I would nicely ask if they could possibly keep them at a different location. If the bees stayed at a spot in the pasture I rarely had to go near I'd probably live with it, just complaining a lot on the times I did have to interact with them (like I do with my farthest East neighbor whose dogs think they own part of my property and throw a fit everytime I have to go out there, which is only when I have to get my horse(s) that seem to like that place the very best of their 80 acres they could be on). If the bees are coming onto my property where I have no choice but to frequent on a regular bases I will kill them when they are on my side (who'm I kidding, I won't be anywhere near them, I'll talk someone else into doing the dirty work). 

As for the shots, how do you know they were warning shots? I live in the country and can shot anytime I feel like it, and sometimes I will! Doesn't mean it has anything to do with a neighbor. At times I have reason and I don't clear it with anyone before hand. Although I did have one crazy neighbor (no really, he was crazy, huffing gas had really done a number on him) that claimed we were shooting at him and "bullets were whizzing by his head", and this is a neighbor who DID shoot at/near me and my brother in law when we were riding the horses down the road in front of his house (did I mention he was crazy?). I don't actually do much shooting, but do have plenty of neighbors that target practice on their property, doesn't bother me at all.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

jamesqf said:


> Or you might turn the situation around and look at it from the other side. How would you feel if your horses accidentally strayed on to the neighbors' property, and they shot or poisoned them? Certainly people who don't know about horses could see them as a threat, just as people who don't know about domestic honeybees can see them as a threat. Or they might complain about noise, smell of manure, etc.
> 
> FWIW, the rancher down the road keeps a couple dozen beehives in summer, right next to the field where his horses are turned out.


How about if it were dogs on your property and biting rather than stinging? Would you feel the same? Why?


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

One of the most amazing experiences of my life was standing in the middle of a swarm as they relocated. 

A small swarm had taken up residence in one of our trees, so instead of killing them (which is VERY illegal in some places) we called a local bee guy. He came out and got the queen in the hive and it was soooo cool watching her hive follow her. 

As we were watching I heard this strange sound I had never heard before. We looked over and saw this black cloud coming towards us. A SECOND Queen had decided to relocate and was bringing her swarm. She was coming for the attractant that was in the keepers bee box. This cloud flew all around us, there were thousands, and they landed on the bee box with the first group. The bee keeper was almost in tears he was so excited. It was one of the coolest things I have ever experienced. I will likely never see that again. I have pictures. It was beyond belief. 

Bees are in grave danger. Keepers are having whole hives mysteriously die. One of my friends lost half of his hives one year. 

The best rule of thumb is to just ignore a bee if you find it. If you are not going to die from a bee sting, get over yourself and let them live. They are one of the best things in this world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rydernation (Mar 12, 2014)

The next time you hear gunshots call the police. And as a matter of fact, I would call animal control now about the bees and the placement of them. See if they have any power to make them move them. Be sure, when you do this everything on your side of the property is good.

I am dealing with issues with a neighbor and I've decided to move. 

Also, about bees, and stings, over 50 percent of the people who die from bee stings and anaphylaxis have never had an allergic reaction to them before!


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## Kristyjog (Nov 11, 2013)

Your neighbors sound insane not mentalky right, I woyks move theres probay always going to be problems. My neighbor let's a bee keeper winter his bees on their property. About 100 acres. We have two major problems. When the bees leave their hives the deficate on the way towards water usually. Well thats over our house to a pond. Our house, windows, cars and patio furniture is covered in it and its like trying to remove drops of dried honey. Also when its below 70 the bees fly very low and slow and land a lot. They cover our grass, patio railings, land on saddles and saddle pads as we are tacking up. One of my kids and I are allergic. We can not take it anymore we've had to ask the guy to remove the bees. We know the importance of bees my husband farms but in such a high concentration we can deal with it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

LadyDreamer said:


> One of the most amazing experiences of my life was standing in the middle of a swarm as they relocated.
> 
> A small swarm had taken up residence in one of our trees, so instead of killing them (which is VERY illegal in some places) we called a local bee guy. He came out and got the queen in the hive and it was soooo cool watching her hive follow her.
> 
> ...


She has a family member who CAN die from a bee sting. The bees are right on the property line and the neighbor won't move them.

As someone who is allergic, this is extremely serious and I agree that something needs to be done. Even for someone who isn't allergic, with the bees that close if the hive swarms someone, they can still die if they get enough stings. 

In general, yes, we need to protect bees. But it's the beeKEEPER in this instance who needs to take that responsibility.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Bees are not endangered in az. We have A LOT of bees and about 90% are africanized, meaning if they decide you have ****ed them off, they will hunt you down and kill you. You cannot hide from them, they will find you in your house, car, and will wait for up to 4 hours above water for you. Killer bees are not something to play will. IF these people get 10 hives and even 1 hive turns, everyone within a half mile radius is in serious danger. In arizona there are farmers who have Killer bee colonies AWAY from people. Killing bees in this state is not illegal. Normally im against killing bees but just 1 hive is going to kill ALL the dogs, the horses any any humans it can in 1 attack if provoked.

I hate the thought of killing honey bees but not killer bees. They are not endangers, they are dangerous and they have no problem killing anything that happens to **** them off. Honey bees don't just attack people, you have to mess with their hive directly. Killer bees you can just happen to exhale within 20 ft of their hive and they will attack.

Arizona is filled with africanized bees, and any hives that are not africanized can, and will be quickly turn africanized.

Africanized Killer Bees Live Up to Their Name in Arizona - WSJ.com

Killer bees kill horses | WTVR.com


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> One of the most amazing experiences of my life was standing in the middle of a swarm as they relocated.
> 
> A small swarm had taken up residence in one of our trees, so instead of killing them (which is VERY illegal in some places) we called a local bee guy. He came out and got the queen in the hive and it was soooo cool watching her hive follow her.
> 
> ...


I cannot tell you how sick I am of hearing this. Anyone else who shares similar thoughts that I should give up and let it alone can refrain from posting on this thread. You are not welcome here.

You would feel very differently about all of this if you were in my shoes. Every time I muck the stalls, clean the horse waters, do anything, I run a risk with the bees. These people do not provide water for their bees, so every time I go out and dump the horse waters they are buzzing and hanging around. I'm sick of being afraid and having to play statue. I am REALLY SICK of these people and SO ANGRY that they placed these hives far away from all of their stuff, but right next to my house and horses. That is not OK.

So keep your comments to yourself. Thank you very much.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

do the smoke barrels. RIGHT next to the hive. It will drive the bees back into their hive and they will leave well enough alone. It will **** their owners off because the bees are not making honey.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

One thing I don't know if you all knew is that our landlord provided free internet for these neighbors (he gets free internet because a company rents his land for their tower). So yesterday we changed the passwords and cut them off, as we told them we would do a month ago if they did not move the hives. They started playing the sympathy card, which my landlord ignored. I can't believe that they didn't get their own internet. I suppose they thought we were total flakes that would never take action.

Today I am going into town to get a lock changing kit. Then the landlord is going to call the bee removal company. The neighbor's are going to be ****ed about their "investment", so that's why I've got the gates padlocked, changing door locks, not taking any chances. In fact, I think I'm going to pick up a padlock and chain for the horse gate.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

GOOD! Bees are a good thing but these are not normally placid honey bees, and the are endangering your livestock, pets and family. If they cant to move the hive AWAY from people thats their business but then they endanger people thats a different story!

Good for you and goodluck! You might want to walk the horses off the property when the bees are being moved. Just incase things get out of hand with the bees your horses are not in the line of fire.


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

I don't think this is going to end well.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

KigerQueen said:


> GOOD! Bees are a good thing but these are not normally placid honey bees, and the are endangering your livestock, pets and family. If they cant to move the hive AWAY from people thats their business but then they endanger people thats a different story!
> 
> Good for you and goodluck! You might want to walk the horses off the property when the bees are being moved. Just incase things get out of hand with the bees your horses are not in the line of fire.


Placid honey bees or not I don't want them next to my horses and house. I wouldn't say that these are totally africanized (I'd probably be dead by now if they were) but they have been a problem in several instances. The neighbors have a huge horse paddock (which is really gross because they never pick up manure and then feed the horses from bales off the ground) and they could fence off a small area on the other side far away from our property for the bees. But for whatever reason, they are just being total pigs about the whole situation. Well, that was an insult to pigs.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

You can take care of the bee situation pretty easily if they won't.

Set out a couple of tomato plants just out of reach of the distance a water hose can spray. 

Go buy you a couple of bags of sevin granules an sprinkle them all over your yard. Then start spraying your tomatos and other flowers with sevin.....

Next, buy a quart of the 10% pyretherin concentrate from Tractor supply and spray your barn, fence posts, etc....

Just keep your horse off of it until you get a good rain.....

My guess is they'll move the bees pretty quick....

Also, now's a good time to take up target shooting.......and practice in the backyard....a couple of times a week to start....


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

If the bee stay there someone is going to end up in the hospital.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I agree with Kiger. Burn smudges for your horses to get rid of old hay and manure. Use a barrel for safety. The smoke will drive the bees away as it makes them slow right down to a walk. Make three smudges for good measure. They keep the mosquitoes away from the horses, right?


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I cannot tell you how sick I am of hearing this. Anyone else who shares similar thoughts that I should give up and let it alone can refrain from posting on this thread. You are not welcome here.


I'm sorry, but this is not your forum, now is it? AFAIK, only the moderators can say who can and can't post in a thread.

I was quite sympathetic when I read your first post, but this attitude on your part that you're going to have things your own way regardless has certainly done a pretty good job of changing my mind.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I wonder if a local TV News Station would be interested in the story. Generate public interest? 

Locally a Station has a section called 6 On Your Side where they actively participate in resolving issues, including neighbor issues. I bet they would do this story.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I cannot tell you how sick I am of hearing this. Anyone else who shares similar thoughts that I should give up and let it alone can refrain from posting on this thread. You are not welcome here.
> 
> You would feel very differently about all of this if you were in my shoes. Every time I muck the stalls, clean the horse waters, do anything, I run a risk with the bees. These people do not provide water for their bees, so every time I go out and dump the horse waters they are buzzing and hanging around. I'm sick of being afraid and having to play statue. I am REALLY SICK of these people and SO ANGRY that they placed these hives far away from all of their stuff, but right next to my house and horses. That is not OK.
> 
> So keep your comments to yourself. Thank you very much.


Bees are in trouble everywhere. If I were in your shoes, I would not be antgonizing my neighbors, especially if I were a temporary resident. Bees aren't something you can really control. Even if they did have waterers out, bees will do what bees do. You dot have to be a statue, you just have to not be aggressive towards them. After reading this thread, I really cannot see how THEY are the crazy ones in this situation. If I was living next to someone like this, I would be defensive as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

jamesqf said:


> I'm sorry, but this is not your forum, now is it? AFAIK, only the moderators can say who can and can't post in a thread.
> 
> I was quite sympathetic when I read your first post, but this attitude on your part that you're going to have things your own way regardless has certainly done a pretty good job of changing my mind.


Notice that I said "*refrain* from posting on this thread". I was not impolite. I was blunt, to the point. I just don't want to hear this stuff of "you're in the wrong, they're in the right, so you should just drop it and shut up". There have been enough posts like that on this thread. Those of you with this view have made your point. You don't need to post the same thing over and over again. I get it, I hear you. That doesn't mean I'm going to drop this.

I have been very patient, now we are getting ready to fight this tooth and nail. This is not a matter of a mean barking dog on the fence, or loud animals, or a loud radio, or otherwise. This is a matter of removing a danger that has already hurt people. I am not saying they have to get rid of their bees. I just want them moved to the other side of their property, away from me. Is that really too much to ask?

Once again, if you all were in my shoes, you would feel the same way. In fact, I think most of you would have called them up and given them a real "what for", cuss words included. Why is it a bad thing that I am fighting for my family and animals' safety? Why do you people have such a problem with this? I have not been rude, or mean, or discourteous to these people. But they have done every discourtesy to me.

The other day, a water spigot broke. We had to turn the well off that we share with our other, much nicer neighbors. I needed the supplies to fix it out of one of the sheds, so our landlord contacted the neighbor asking them to give me the keys to the shed. Guess what? I did not get these keys for over 24 hours. Imagine if I and the animals had been without water all that time? Thankfully, my wonderfully kind well sharing neighbor helped me get supplies and fixed it, and I paid him for his time and gas.

*"but this attitude on your part that you're going to have your own way regardless"*

regardless of what? Regardless of their feelings? Regardless of my beekeeping neighbors safety? It is their choice to keep these bees. I will not allow them to risk my safety in doing so.

Next time you are going to get upset with someone, have a valid reason for doing so. You can't say "regardless" without a reason given. It makes absolutely no sense. All I did was ask people to stop posting comments that I should "get over myself and let it go". Please. You do know that despite the location of the bees, I did not say a single word about it until these bees attacked us. I did not like the bees there, but I was not going to say anything until there was a _valid reason_. Getting swarmed and attacked and my mother being severely allergic is certainly a valid reason.

Those of you that feel the need to continue to criticize me, here it is straight from HF rules:

*7- Respect your fellow members.*
Please respect all members and their beliefs. Sometimes people think it is ok to criticize someone based on their training methods or riding style. This boils down to *"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". If someone posts about jumping 3 feet for the first time, and you don't like jumping, then ignore the post.* On the other hand, if someone posts a thread saying that their training method is the best, you -do- have the right to respectfully disagree with them in a kind, non attacking way.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> Bees are in trouble everywhere. If I were in your shoes, I would not be antgonizing my neighbors, especially if I were a temporary resident. Bees aren't something you can really control. Even if they did have waterers out, bees will do what bees do. You dot have to be a statue, you just have to not be aggressive towards them. After reading this thread, I really cannot see how THEY are the crazy ones in this situation. If I was living next to someone like this, I would be defensive as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly how am I antagonizing them? I am not antagonizing them. I just want the bees to be moved. How is that wrong? I don't bother them. I leave them alone. I let them go about their business. I'm not constantly yelling over the fence at them. I don't even contact them, I let the landlord do it.

In your original post YOU had bees moved off of your property. This is not any different from that, with the exception that they are my neighbors bees and it makes getting them moved ten times harder. *I'm not trying to kill the bees*. I just want them moved! That is all! I want to keep myself, my family, and my animals safe.

Once again, there is no valid reason here for me to just give up and let the bees stay there. You say bees are in trouble. I'm not trying to kill the bees. They can live elsewhere. So your argument is a moot point.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Alright, here is an update. Emails between me and the landlord.

Me: "Do you think we should give them a warning? I really don't want to (about the bee traps) but I'm worried about them taking legal action. I don't think they can though, because the only bees that are "their bees" are the ones that stay on their side of the property."

Landlord: "
Dont worry about that, I just spoke with Officer ****, the woman you spoke with yesterday and gave her the complete skinny. She is totally understanding of your situation, regarding the bees, and believes that there are some charges that can be filed against them if they do not take care of this. She said from her understanding talking with neighbors yesterday, they are not planning to move the bees.


She is going to call them and let them know that if they dont take care of it, charges can be filed against them. She will also let them know that if we choose too, we are well within our rights to trap any bees that come onto our side of the property, so if she doesn't want to lose the bees and get fined, move them. She will not say that this came from me or that we are going to, just will give them an FYI that its something we can do. She will just let them know whats coming next. They will not have any legal standing if we trap bees that come onto our property. She will call be back later today to let me know. I told her Im calling the bee trapper soon so they better move them soon otherwise they will lose them."


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Even if these neighbours put the bees across their field they are still going to fly to your fields. 

I do not think you have any right to poison them. You moved and are renting. These people have their own property and what they keep on it is their business.

When you move from suburbia to rural it is _you_ that has to adjust to rural living where, generally speaking neighbours help each other out.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> Even if these neighbours put the bees across their field they are still going to fly to your fields.
> 
> I do not think you have any right to poison them. You moved and are renting. These people have their own property and what they keep on it is their business.
> 
> When you move from suburbia to rural it is _you_ that has to adjust to rural living where, generally speaking neighbours help each other out.


*SIGH*

Wow. OK, I will explain it again. And again. And again.

*I am not poisoning, killing, or otherwise hurting the bees. *

The bees only bother me when I come within 30 feet of the hive. Guess what? That is my ENTIRE HORSE FACILITY AREA. The only thing not in that 30 feet is the rest of the turnout! So I simply want the bee hives moved away from my property.

If we did trap them, it would be completely humane. They are trapped with a pheromone, kept alive, and transported to another location. The bees are not killed, poisoned, or otherwise hurt.

There have been people on here that have suggested poisoning the bees. I want everyone to note that it wasn't me.

I am getting really tired of defending myself. It doesn't seem like anyone is listening to what I'm saying, just jumping to conclusions that I am a "horrible intolerant city dwelling neighbor who complains about everything".


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I cannot tell you how sick I am of hearing this. Anyone else who shares similar thoughts that I should give up and let it alone can refrain from posting on this thread. You are not welcome here.
> 
> So keep your comments to yourself. Thank you very much.


Comments like this show how easily riled you get. You cannot reason with something you do not like but try to take charge.

Anyone has the right to answer in this thread it is *not* up to you to say who can and cannot. That could lead to a ban.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

First off, I completely agree with OP.

OP is not temporarily living there from what I understand. I'm under the impression that OP has already moved into said property and her mother/brother are following behind (probably wrapping everything up with the previous home) and will be all moved in within 6 months from now.

Personally, I kill any bees (hornet, wasp, honey bee, etc) that is around. If there's a nest/whatever around my property (renting or not), it will be gone. I was attacked by a swarm of ground bees (would they too be considered Africanized being that they attacked me and I had over 100 stings when I was 6 years old?), I don't like having to be paranoid that it could happen again.

There is no reason that the neighbours can't be courteous (that's what neighbours are in the country, right?) and move the bees, considering that OPs mother is highly allergic and the bees have already stung her without provocation. It kind I seems like OP was moved in before the neighbours even placed their hive on the property line. Don't quote me on that though, not positive.

I hope OP gets them moved somewhere or completely relocated altogether. Sure, she'll still have bees flying around if they're on the other edge of the neighbours property, but they won't be housed right beside her and there will be less of them.

I honestly can't see why some of you think she's completely blowing this out of proportion. Bees that attack are not safe, regardless of how "endangered" they are. Personally, I've seen no shortage of any type of bee, wasp, or hornet around here. Whoever said about it being akin I a dog crossing property lines is correct. Maybe the dog was an endangered breed, that does not give it permission to attack someone off it's property. If they want to keep the bees, they can't be endangering people, why y'all can't get that is beyond me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Iseul said:


> First off, I completely agree with OP.
> 
> OP is not temporarily living there from what I understand. I'm under the impression that OP has already moved into said property and her mother/brother are following behind (probably wrapping everything up with the previous home) and will be all moved in within 6 months from now.
> 
> ...


Thank you! 

When we came to look at the house to rent, there were no bee hives. The neighbors waited until our landlord moved out, and then a couple weeks before I moved in they put their bees there.

I let it go and did not say a word about it, until we were attacked. After that happened, the bees HAVE to be moved.

My mother and brother are moving in this week. We will be here until the end of the year. Then we will be gone, landlord is selling the house (he is actually selling this place that he put two years hard work into and made it look really nice because he doesn't want to live next to these neighbors.) after we move out.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Iseul said:


> Personally, I kill any bees (hornet, wasp, honey bee, etc) that is around. If there's a nest/whatever around my property (renting or not), it will be gone. I was attacked by a swarm of ground bees (*would they too be considered Africanized being that they attacked me and I had over 100 stings when I was 6 years old?*), I don't like having to be paranoid that it could happen again.


So sorry that happened to you! That is horrible :-(


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> Comments like this show how easily riled you get. You cannot reason with something you do not like but try to take charge.
> 
> Anyone has the right to answer in this thread it is *not* up to you to say who can and cannot. That could lead to a ban.


I am sorry if I came across as rude, controlling, or otherwise.

Yes I am riled up. My neighbors shot warning shots at me. If you remember my first post "it takes a lot to rattle my chain, but I draw the line at guns". Their bees have hurt my family and are a danger. So to have people tell me repeatedly that I am in the wrong and that I should just let the fact that my family was attacked go, yes it hurt me. Yes it made me angry.

I am reasoning. I am explaining. I have done so several times, over and over again. Eventually, it got to the point where I needed to tell them to stop. They can post if they want on this thread, I have no control over it nor do I have an illusion of control over it.

I was just asking them to stop, and emotion came into play in what is already a touchy situation.

I suppose if I am banned, then I am banned. But I won't say that I am in the wrong for protecting my family from a danger that has already hurt us.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

You can explain your position over and over until you are blue in the face and people will still disagree with you and think you are wrong, or think you are overreacting or any number of things. It is silly to get mad at people, especially anonymous names on the internet, when people disagree with you. Not everyone will be on your side in all situations. I certainly don't in this situation and think you would be a horrible neighbor, but I'm sure we would find ourselves on the same page every now and then. 

(And when you get worked up, it invites people to mess with you more and see how mad they can get you. LOL! So calm down okay?  ) 

This situation reminds me of some drama that happened last year where a guy had been living in his house for YEARS and then some jerk neighbor found out he had pet ball pythons. This jerk rallied the neighborhood and they all but came at him with pitch forks and torches because of it. This was their friend who had helped them and who they had been around the entire time he had lived there. He and his family received death threats even, and was called the most horrendous of things, all because of his happy, healthy, well taken care of pets. They tried to run him and his family out of their home and out of the neighborhood because some idiot felt threatened and overreacted. Poor guy broke down in tears during a news interview over the actions of his neighbors. It was heartbreaking. In the end, the drama died down and he was able to keep his home and his pets, but it still upsets me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> You can explain your position over and over until you are blue in the face and people will still disagree with you and think you are wrong, or think you are overreacting or any number of things. It is silly to get mad at people, especially anonymous names on the internet, when people disagree with you. Not everyone will be on your side in all situations. I certainly don't in this situation and think you would be a horrible neighbor, but I'm sure we would find ourselves on the same page every now and then.
> 
> (And when you get worked up, it invites people to mess with you more and see how mad they can get you. LOL! So calm down okay?  )
> 
> ...


I don't see how you can relate that to my situation. That man had had his pets for years. The pythons were not going into other people's dwellings. The pythons were not hurting other people. These neighbors have just gotten their bees, and are completely novice beekeepers. They had no idea the bees would react the way they did. I did not say a word about the bees until they did hurt us.

I have certainly not given these neighbors death threats. _They gave one to me_ by firing warning shots the other night! I'm not trying to run these neighbors out of town. I just want the bees moved.

_"Not everyone will be on your side in all situations. I certainly don't in this situation and think you would be a horrible neighbor, but I'm sure we would find ourselves on the same page every now and then."

_I am confused by this. Do you mean that I am a horrible neighbor, or am not? I'm not expecting everyone to be on my side. But I do not like people who contest opinions without a valid reason to back up their opinions.

It comes down to not a matter of opinion, but of safety.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

> You can explain your position over and over until you are blue in the face and people will still disagree with you and think you are wrong,


Only 2 of you, it seems. Pretty telling......


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I am sorry if I came across as rude, controlling, or otherwise.
> 
> Yes I am riled up. My neighbors shot warning shots at me. If you remember my first post "it takes a lot to rattle my chain, but I draw the line at guns". Their bees have hurt my family and are a danger. So to have people tell me repeatedly that I am in the wrong and that I should just let the fact that my family was attacked go, yes it hurt me. Yes it made me angry.
> 
> ...



Apology accepted.

Having just read up about these Africanised bees, it seems doubtful that these are anyway crossed with them. These cross breeds swarm when their hive is thought to be under attack. I might have it wrong but you Mother was stung twice? How many other stings has there been?

I know little about bees, only that there are many superstitions about them! When I was asked to care for a friends dozen hives whilst he was in hospital, I learned, whilst being shown what to do, that if you are calm then they rarely ever sting. The only time I did get stung was when two got under my face net and they panicked as they were trapped. 

After the first couple of times seeing to these hives, I would only wear a face net, no gloves or body suit. I never got stung after the first time. Rightly or wrongly, one of the superstitions is that you should talk to bees and tell them what is going on so I explained to them why I was caring for them for a month! It must be true because it worked. :lol:

I do agree that the neighbours should be sociable and move the hives but even at a distance they are going to fly over the pastures.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Lol, dang, you must like getting worked up. Calm down. I view you as the antagonist. That is all. I don't know you. I will never know you. What does it matter what I think? You are still going to get upset about it, which is silly. Take a breath or two, and realize the person who thinks you are a horrible neighbor is just an alias. You will never know me. We will never be friends. Why does it matter if I think you are not right in this situation. ;-).


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> Apology accepted.
> 
> Having just read up about these Africanised bees, it seems doubtful that these are anyway crossed with them. These cross breeds swarm when their hive is thought to be under attack. I might have it wrong but you Mother was stung twice? How many other stings has there been?
> 
> ...


I was safely walking under a flowering tree covered in bees. They only attack or bother me when I am near the hive. There would have been more stings, but anytime the bees start hanging around me and more are coming, I run like mad for the house. They were literally flying in my face (imagine dive bombing planes) while I was out just trying to pick up manure.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

I supposes in this instance, it's rather like having neighbors plant their beehives within three feet of your front door....but on their own property...and then being told you are over reacting when you complain. No, it's not her front door, but if she's like me, she spends A LOT of time in and around her barn and paddock area, which is a permanent structure and a hell of a lot harder to move than a few hives. *I* wouldn't want bees so close to my porch and door, and I certainly wouldn't want them that close to my barn and paddock. Bees that are ranging for food aren't going to be aggressive or defensive. They get aggressive when they perceive a threat to their hives, and there is NO WAY OP can explain to the bees that all she wants to do is work her horses, clean her paddocks (within mere feet of the hives), and be able to be in her barn area without danger. 

Considering that severe bee allergies can lead to death, and her mother has a severe allergy, it makes perfect sense to me that OP would be doing all she can do to urge her neighbors to move the hives. Seems to me it's the neighbors being selfish and passive aggressive in NOT moving them, especially in the face of a severe allergy. Which of you here would tell someone to go pound sand if you could relatively easily reduce their risk of DEATH or hospitalization? I mean, the landlord offered to PAY for the moving, so that the neighbors weren't even put out time-wise or in effort. If you can honestly say that you wouldn't care for a person's safety simply because it's your property and you can do as you please, then perhaps YOU are the sort of neighbor *I* wouldn't want.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Oh oh, just tho't of something. Perhaps the neighbors don't like the smell of your horses. I'm around horses so much I don't smell them but city slickers smell them across the yard.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

LadyDreamer said:


> Lol, dang, you must like getting worked up. Calm down. I view you as the antagonist. That is all. I don't know you. I will never know you. What does it matter what I think? You are still going to get upset about it, which is silly. Take a breath or two, and realize the person who thinks you are a horrible neighbor is just an alias. You will never know me. We will never be friends. Why does it matter if I think you are not right in this situation. ;-)



Why on earth would you feel the need to be that ugly?


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

It does not mean they can endanger someone's life. my mother is allergic to bees so i can understand. I have also been chased by a huge swarm of bees on horseback. I dont think my horse has ever ran so fast in her life! I think OP is in the right. She cannot take care of her horses for fear of getting attacked by the bees. The hive is ON the fence line! that is rude and dangerous. Most people don't realize HOW dangerous bees can be but at least 30 people die from bee attacked every year in phoenix, thats in a CITY with almost NO bee hives just hanging around.

bees in az while not all are africanized are a little easier to provoke then your average bee on the west coast. If the people want to move their bees to the BACK of the property and away from OP i dont see an issue, its not going to kill the bees to move them. They may still be in OP yard but not aggressively. There are rules in phoenix about beekeeping and one of them is providing water, and they have to be 500ft from the fenceline. I think that is reasonable. She is not asking them to kill the bees or to get rid of them, but to just move them.

Again we are not talking about cute bumble bees, we are talking about a hive of defencive bees that are going to attack anything they think is a threat. 

Bees are not in danger here in az as i have said. We could supply most of the country with the bees from here. most of the arte killer bees, which are stronger and more aggressive, hence why no one else wants them. They have seek and destroy squads in texas for KILLING killer bee colonies because they are such an issue. While these bees may not be killer bees, all it takes is 1 male killer bee to mate with a new queen. Then the hive goes from honey bee to killer bee within weeks.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

horseluvr2524 said:


> If we did trap them, it would be completely humane. They are trapped with a pheromone, kept alive, and transported to another location. The bees are not killed, poisoned, or otherwise hurt.


You really need to learn a bit more about honeybees. First, in a very real sense there is no such thing as an individual bee. They are all part of a hive. Trap as many of the workers (which are the ones you see flying outside the hive) as you like, transport them to a location where they can't get back to their hive, and they will die. The only way to move a hive is to locate the queen, and move her. (Which is what happens when bees swarm: a fertile queen, drones, and workers leave the old hive to found a new one.) Or, of course, to move the hive with the queen inside.

Second, there are thousands of different species of bees, and many other insects that look something like bees. The 'ground bees' that someone mentioned are emphatically not the same thing as domestic honeybees, nor are the swarms that might chase you on horseback. Would you say a wild zebra is the same as a horse, or a coyote the same as a dog? Depending on where you live, they might not even be bees at all, but yellowjackets, a kind of carnivorous wasp, which compares to honeybees much like the lion compares to the lamb.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> You really need to learn a bit more about honeybees. First, in a very real sense there is no such thing as an individual bee. They are all part of a hive. Trap as many of the workers (which are the ones you see flying outside the hive) as you like, transport them to a location where they can't get back to their hive, and they will die. The only way to move a hive is to locate the queen, and move her. (Which is what happens when bees swarm: a fertile queen, drones, and workers leave the old hive to found a new one.) Or, of course, to move the hive with the queen inside.


While this is true in a sense, there ARE ways to ensure the workers do not die off. We had a huge swarm of bees at our family business. My mom called a beekeeper who came out to collect them since they were a disturbance (we own a marina, and they happened to set up shop at the end of one of our docks; people couldn't get to their boats which are homes to some in the summer). What he found was that it was a huge group of worker bees, and no queen. He collected them up with this vacuum thing, brought them to his farm, and he either ordered in a queen for the colony or had one on hand. So telling the OP that the males will surely die is absolutely wrong. Perhaps you should learn a bit about beekeeping yourself?

OP, I'm totally in agreement with you here. I'm deathly allergic to bees myself (which was another reason why my mother had our problem relocated ASAP), so I would not have tolerated it as quietly as you have. Perhaps it makes me a "terrible, horrible neighbor" but frankly I really could honestly care less what my neighbors thought of me. I don't do anything to disrupt them, and I expect the same from them. Granted, in our current situation my neighbors are in my in laws, so really I have no issues  I do hope this gets resolved quickly and your mom doesn't sustain any more bee stings. That is scary stuff when you have a known bee allergy.


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## kaitlynbowles (Sep 30, 2013)

LadyDreamer said:


> Lol, dang, you must like getting worked up. Calm down. view you as the antagonist. That is all. I don't know you. I will never know you. What does it matter what I think? You are still going to get upset about it, which is silly. Take a breath or two, and realize the person who thinks you are a horrible neighbor is just an alias. You will never know me. We will never be friends. Why does it matter if I think you are not right in this situation. ;-)


If I were in the OP's shoes, I would just kill as many as possible. How does that make you feel? At least the OP is looking for safe ways to relocate the bees, since requesting the hives be moved didn't work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

O,O I feel like this thread escalated real quickly since my last visit here....

My first point will be... When you post on a public forum, there are likely to be people that don't share the same view as you. That doesn't make their opinion any less solid, and you should respect that when you post on a (I'll say it again) PUBLIC forum.

Secondly, in response to your reply to me from pages ago... I never said you couldn't set up traps. All I said was that it was their property, and they should be able to have bees if they feel so inclined. Yes, by extension that means you can set up traps if you feel so inclined. Please don't be so defensive x.x

I don't want this second question to come across as rude (I get that you're obviously under a lot of stress from this, and I hope it works out for you), and I also hope it doesn't provoke you in any way... But why are you dealing with this? Shouldn't your mother be the one handling most of the dealings, if the contracts (for rental) are in her name?

EDIT-I also wanted to add... I don't know much about bees. Like, at all. But I do know they are highly endangered. If there are really enough bees in AZ for the rest of the US, we should look into relocating them xD


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Zexious said:


> O,O I feel like this thread escalated real quickly since my last visit here....
> 
> My first point will be... When you post on a public forum, there are likely to be people that don't share the same view as you. That doesn't make their opinion any less solid, and you should respect that when you post on a (I'll say it again) PUBLIC forum.
> 
> ...


Some of them do get rented out seasonally to places like CA fruit orchards and the like.


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## jackboy (Jul 8, 2012)

I've been thinking of getting a hive myself but in no way would I set them up anywhere near my neighbors fence line. If I was in your shoes the traps would have already went up


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## wakiya (Feb 7, 2009)

^ Yep, people truck bees all across the country to farms


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

horseluvr2524 said:


> They will be moving out here next weekend. The shots were in no way aimed near or at me, or I would be raising hell.
> 
> A police officer called them (after I had told her the whole story) and then called me back basically on their side. They are so good at twisting words and manipulating people. Coincidentally timed gun shots were blamed on firing at coyotes. Yeah right. Then the PO went on to tell me that "I should just try to work with them because they seem like really nice peaceable people". So I told that PO that they were the ones who set the moving bee hives deadline, they are the ones not moving them and going back on their word. I also told her that anytime I want to go out and clean up after the horses, I have to do it within ten feet of the hives, and that my mother was stung twice in the face and she is allergic so her whole face swelled up. I also told her that they are supposed to provide water for the bees and they don't, so the bees are always at my horse's waters. I'm not sure that the PO was ever back on my side, but whatever. It was so disheartening to have her call me back with the neighbor's old tired litany that they just want to be peaceful people keeping animals. They are very manipulative, because then they go behind your back and are so unbelievably rude. They actually used my landlord's water (hooked up a hose to a spigot on our property, ran it through the fence over to theirs) without his permission or knowledge, which is really screwed up because we have wells, not city lines.



You have no idea just what else these people are into though...and mean anything from drugs to illegals. Being as how any responsible beekeeper would not want hives close to where people are, as that keeps them upset, I would be willing to bet there are many illegal things going on with them.

As for believing them over you....not necessarily...just means cops may not want to deal with this...and cops may be masters of pushme/pullyou tactics. Go through that here frequently, although we have no law in this town. But get the runaround every time you need something.

I do doubt you have any worry about these bees being Africanized, neither you nor your mother would be alive to complain about this, if they were.

Guard dog is great idea but it will end up dead I would be willing to bet.

Video is best...but would say moving is just only way to deal with it.

Also, if your landlord is that chummy with them, then he is in this up to his eyeballs too.

Move. Only thing to do. The only way to deal with people like this is to be crazier than they are. Nothing else works. Period.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Luvs Horses said:


> Glad you spoke with the police. Even if they denied it, it is on record.
> So the neighbors are moving? That would be good. Hopefully the bees will go with them.
> Just be cautious and safe. Hope all works out good for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well, you would think so wouldn't you?

But in almost a year of calling about idiot fools next door and their dog that kept trying to bite me...and in some cases calling DAILY!! And numerous trips out here to try to get something done, take a wild guess how many incidents were on record?

One. Nothing else had been written down, no calls I made, no trips by the Sheriff Dept to come out here....out of at least 30 or more calls and at least 5 trips? One recorded.


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## smhorsleysr (May 20, 2014)

I really didn't read all of the responses (mainly because it is 1 am and there are a ton) but I just wanted to give you a few pieces of advice...

There are no such things as warning shots. Even brandishing a firearm is deadly force. Aiming it, even at the ground, and especially squeezing that trigger is intending to kill something. PERIOD. Most places have an ordnance that says you must be at least 500 feet away from a structure and so many feet away from a road to discharge a firearm... even outside of city limits... in the middle of nowhere.. I know because I had a pain in the rear neighbor that didn't like me shooting cans in my yard.. long story... call your Sheriffs dept and ask them what the law is and explain what is going on.

Buy a trail camera.. or two... If you need suggestions on some decent ones, I can send you links to the ones I use. They hide easy and can take pics and video. Get a picture of them on your property one time and they can be served a no trespass... If they come back again... go directly to jail...

As far as getting a guard animal, that is a lot of commitment. Another mouth to feed, etc. And you get what you ask for... if you want an alarm raising critter to sound the alert when a trespasser is around, you have to deal with the noise every time someone is around... 

If a big guard dog is out of the question (are you able to train the dog or can you afford to pay someone to do it for you) or you don't have the time to wait for a puppy to grow up, guinea hens are actually pretty good at guarding your property. They raise a crazy racket when something or someone intrudes into their space. They are pretty low maintenance and they spend all day eating bugs and ticks. Just some ideas...


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Geese are mean too. Nothing is more frightening than a gaggle of geese chasing after you hissing XD!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thank you to everyone that has defended me and/or given good advice. You are very appreciated!

Moving right now seems a little extreme for all the hassle it will cause us. I'd rather wait and see how this plays out. If we move, we will have to sign a year's lease, which is the last thing we want to do. We don't want to be stuck paying for a house after our place is built.

Jamesqf-I know the difference between a yellow jacket, wasp, ground bee, and honey bee. I am not stupid. In fact, the yellow jackets have not attacked me or threatened even once, while these honey bees have done so on numerous occasions.

I was gone for the evening. Got back here at ten, and what do you know, another odd happening. A board was, very cleanly, removed from a wooden gate, and thrown on the ground. The wooden gate was open, so our high heavy winds didn't do it. _Very_ odd. I usually shut the dogs in the house when I leave. Should I leave them out? I risk them getting hurt with local wildlife or God forbid, a person hurting them. I love those dogs. (they are maybe 3/4 the size of a full blooded GS, about the size of a labrador. They are GS mixes.)

It's all getting pretty fishy. I'm going to get a "you're on camera" sign, and hide a few cameras around the property. Then we shall see if there is any more problems.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

If anybody is willing to help me find some cameras, that would be great. They need to have night vision, and I need at least 3. I don't want to spend more than $100. Is that possible?


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Wow cameras are expensive :sad: Maybe I can find 2 for $100? I have to have at least two. One facing horses, one facing house.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Also get movement sensor lights. Its off putting when someone is being sneaky then BLAM you are in the spot light. You can also install "child" door and window alarms.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

KigerQueen said:


> Also get movement sensor lights. Its off putting when someone is being sneaky then BLAM you are in the spot light. You can also install "child" door and window alarms.


We actually already have motion sensor lights. 3 of them. One by shed closest to horses, one at gate in front of house (where the board mysteriously came off), and one on the patio.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Well you can get a webcam. That way when someone trigers the light you can get them on camera. Otherwse itsgoing to get expensive.


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> If anybody is willing to help me find some cameras, that would be great. They need to have night vision, and I need at least 3. I don't want to spend more than $100. Is that possible?


Deer and wildlife cameras are usually a little cheaper than security cams, and have night 'vision'. You can find them anyplace that sells hunting gear.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Landlord told me that had happened before when the gate was open, so in this case I was overreacting. At least I know someone isn't coming on the property. We shall see how the bee trapping goes. If the neighbors get really weird and mean, I may go ahead and get cameras.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

try to relax. I know its not easy (i have been in a situation where the people down the mountain might shoot us and make it LOOK like an accident... Fun times) But try not to stress. Until the bees are moved get a burn barrel and burn some trash or something close-ish to the bees (as close as you can get and not get hurt) and go play with the horses. It will keep the bees away while it smokes and it gives you time to be with your horses. Throw some wet wood chips on it every now and then to make more smoke too.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

You can also get a couple of dummy cameras. When I set up a video system i like to have obvious dummy cameras and then have the live cameras be more hidden. The dummies are also a great deterrent and are a lot less expensive.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its a real shame because you sound to be otherwise happy there and I know its not easy to find good rented horse properties but I don't think you're ever going to be happy there. 
Since those neighbours could have sited their bees away from the boundary line - which is the thoughtful thing to do and would also have given the bees a more settled area which they need to produce honey I can only think that putting them where they are is all part of some plan they have to get you out - maybe they want to have a friend or family member move in there or maybe they want the extra land. If they're determined enough they will keep on picking at you and make your life a misery
Its a rented property, it will never be your own so start looking for something else ASAP and move on with your life away from all this stress.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

jaydee said:


> Its a real shame because you sound to be otherwise happy there and I know its not easy to find good rented horse properties but I don't think you're ever going to be happy there.
> Since those neighbours could have sited their bees away from the boundary line - which is the thoughtful thing to do and would also have given the bees a more settled area which they need to produce honey I can only think that putting them where they are is all part of some plan they have to get you out - maybe they want to have a friend or family member move in there or maybe they want the extra land. If they're determined enough they will keep on picking at you and make your life a misery
> Its a rented property, it will never be your own so start looking for something else ASAP and move on with your life away from all this stress.


It is a shame, but I don't see the point to moving when we will only be here until the end of the year. We are building our own place, and needed a horse property we could rent for less than a year. As you can imagine, that is insanely hard to find. If we did go and move to another place, we would have to sign a year lease and end up paying for a house we wouldn't be living in. That's why I just want to stick this one out. Why should I move 2x more than I have to? 

For the past week or so, the bees haven't been too much of a problem. We are getting the bee trapper out here, and that will greatly reduce the number of bees.

December, I'm out of here and to my new property, an hour away. The neighbors on both side of that property are not farming type people. All they have is dogs. I'll be one of only two people on a small street that has horses. Which is great too because that will reduce the flies! (the neighbors I have right now have 4 horses in a large paddock, and they never pick up manure. Ever. It's all over their paddock. Really gross, because they just throw the feed on the ground too!)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If it just short term then you'll just have to grit your teeth and hang in there - I don't know what makes those people tick but they are what they are and unlikely to change in their attitude towards you or how they carry out their lives
They can't care much for their bees - how are they to know that you aren't the sort of people to soak their garden in insecticides?
Hope things settle down - you can always camp out on your own land if it gets too bad!!!!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

YEAH! Neighbors said they are moving bees today! Now they had better move them. I suppose the police officer calling them to let them know they can have charges brought against them or lose their bees through traps made them decide to move them. See how quick that happened? Had to get a little mean (which I really didn't want to) by turning the internet off and getting police involved, but I guess that's the only way some people will do anything. Just glad the bees will no longer be a problem.

Landlord thinks they will ask for the internet back, and said I should tell them 1-2 weeks and wait a month :lol: he's meaner than I am! However, if they are polite to me and either call me or speak to me face to face about it, I'll give it back right away. But if they are rude or insist on only texting me, I don't see any reason why I should spend my valuable time giving them something that was already a courtesy. My landlord sounded like he didn't even want to give it back, but said it's my call (they get it free from him, don't have to pay for it.)

I would like to give it back and have everyone going back to being civil to each other. I'll never trust them, but at least I would like to be neutral. Hopefully in a few months everybody will have forgotten about it.

And yeah, Jaydee, camping out on our land is always an option, but desert camping isn't very fun! :wink:


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

jaydee said:


> ...you can always camp out on your own land if it gets too bad!!!!


 Actually, that's a great idea. If a person didn't want to rough it, I bet you could lease a RV, along with a storage container/pup, for less than paying rent. Albeit it compact, it would have all the necessities to tide a person over until the house was finished.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

horseluvr2524 said:


> And yeah, Jaydee, camping out on our land is always an option, but desert camping isn't very fun! :wink:


I just saw where you are and it made me think of the night my one son and his friends camped in the desert (he went to Uni. in Arizona) and went outside in the night to pee (yes delightful thought!!) and wondered what was scrunching under his feet so aimed the flashlight down and saw he was treading on scorpions


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

To the OP, I think you are being far more than fair with these people. As far as internet, you should not be sharing your internet with them, as your computer can get hacked or worse. 

Some issues with sharing internet connections with your neighbors:

Is it safe to share my internet connection with my neighbor?

For those who don't agree, look at it this way:

If you have horses, it is your job to keep them on your property. If they get loose on the highway (and may kill someone), law enforcement is within its rights to shoot them. This actually happened last year to someones bulls, who got loose on I-75. 

If you have a vicious dog, and it goes on the neighbors' property, they have the right to kill it.

If you have bees and they go on someone else's property, they have the right to kill the bees. 

Besides that, these people are in violation of whatever law saying that the bees have to be so far from the property line. 

The OP is also within her rights to sue for medical bills if the bees sting. 

As far as the landlord is concerned, he should tell the neighbors they are NOT allowed to have bees. I'm assuming the neighbors are renters as well? The landlord could also be sued if those bees attack people. 

This is similar to the issue with vicious dogs. If you rent out houses, you are allowed to stipulate what pets are allowed or not allowed on your property. Most rentals do not allow large dogs or pitt bulls.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

4horses said:


> To the OP, I think you are being far more than fair with these people. As far as internet, you should not be sharing your internet with them, as your computer can get hacked or worse.
> 
> Some issues with sharing internet connections with your neighbors:
> 
> ...


Neighbors own their land. My landlord owns only the land I am renting. Obviously, these people would never have gotten bees in the first place if my landlord owned their land. He hates bees. I'm fine with bees, when the hives aren't next to my home and horses.

With the internet, I'll just have to see how it plays out.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Chevaux said:


> Actually, that's a great idea. If a person didn't want to rough it, I bet you could lease a RV, along with a storage container/pup, for less than paying rent. Albeit it compact, it would have all the necessities to tide a person over until the house was finished.


Before we decided to rent, we were looking at RVs. However, having 2 large dogs, a cat, 3 parrots, 2 horses, and 3 people including a 13 year old boy, it was not going to work. Especially not in 100 degree heat. Everyone would have been totally miserable. And I get horribly lethargic in high heat, and being home schooled that would not have been good for me. Then there would have been the problem of getting a temporary setup for our horses while our barn is built.

If it was over the winter, it would have been doable. Rattlesnakes hibernate, not many bugs around, nice cool weather. Summer would have been hell, to say the least.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

jaydee said:


> I just saw where you are and it made me think of the night my one son and his friends camped in the desert (he went to Uni. in Arizona) and went outside in the night to pee (yes delightful thought!!) and wondered what was scrunching under his feet so aimed the flashlight down and saw he was treading on scorpions


Wow! Scary! I actually haven't seen scorpions hardly at all, and I've been living here for 10 years. However, I think it has more to do with the area you live, as I lived in well sealed houses in suburbs all this time. But people still get scorpion infestations in suburbs. You just have to keep up with spraying for bugs.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Surprise, surprise! I get home at 10:40pm this evening, and what lovely boxes do I see still located next to my horse stalls? Once again, they did not follow through on a deadline they set for themselves.

On a pro bee/save the bees note, I saw a sad sight while out in the land of people this evening. There was a bee in death's throes on the sidewalk. I couldn't really see if it had lost it's stinger, so I'm not sure if it was dying because it had stung somebody or if it contracted the mysterious disease. It was definitely a honey bee. So sad :sad: Doesn't surprise me though, as it was a suburbian area and there were probably pesticides all over the plants.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Wow! Scary! I actually haven't seen scorpions hardly at all, and I've been living here for 10 years. However, I think it has more to do with the area you live, as I lived in well sealed houses in suburbs all this time. But people still get scorpion infestations in suburbs. You just have to keep up with spraying for bugs.


When we lived in the Ft. Worth area, you always saw scorpions in the new homes, I assume from disturbing their environment.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

horseluvr2524 said:


> Surprise, surprise! I get home at 10:40pm this evening, and what lovely boxes do I see still located next to my horse stalls? Once again, they did not follow through on a deadline they set for themselves.
> .


Oh, shame. Maybe over the weekend :?


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

YES! :happydance: the bees are finally moved! It only took them twenty minutes. Well, I'm happy, the bees are moved.

Now, when they move the bees back home in a week, I am praying they will put them on the other side of their property. I don't want to have to go through all of this again.

It wouldn't make any sense to go through the trouble of moving the bees only to put them in a problem spot again right? I'm sure the bees will be far away though, because if they are not next to my horses, they will be closer to my house and their own kids playset (if they put them on our shared fence line again).

Anyway, yay! I don't have to share my horse facilities with an apiary anymore.

And just to clarify once and for all, I titled this thread "Flipping Crazy Neighbors" not to be rude, but because I was freaked out that they had fired warning shots and I felt they were meant for me.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Got stung this morning :sad: the bees must be attracted to the herbal conditioner I use. They went for my hair again. I figured there would be a few stray bees hanging around after the bee hives were moved.

There is one bee box left. It could be a hive, or they could have left that there for the strays. Not sure.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Does anyone know how long it takes stray bees to settle? Still getting dive bombed by the stupid things. Waiting until dark to feed and everything.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Make a smudge in a large metal coffee can or steel pail. Use a little dried manure and a little hay, barely dampen manure, mix well and light. You want it to smoke, not flame. In my area, when the bugs were real bad, people used to carry these when walking in the evening/night. A larger smudge can be built in a steel barrel and your horses will love you and the bees will get dopey.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Saddlebag said:


> Make a smudge in a large metal coffee can or steel pail. Use a little dried manure and a little hay, barely dampen manure, mix well and light. You want it to smoke, not flame. In my area, when the bugs were real bad, people used to carry these when walking in the evening/night. A larger smudge can be built in a steel barrel and your horses will love you and the bees will get dopey.


There actually is a metal barrel obviously used for burning on the other side of the yard. I just need to carry it over to the side by the horses. I'll try this... does it matter if it's flaming in a larger container like a barrel? Probably still want it to just smoke right? Oh shoot, I just realized... I think my lighter is at the old house. Maybe, unless I brought my favorite candle with me. I'll have to check.

Moved the birds today. A frustrating day over all. It was impossible to take my cockatoo's huge cage apart (it will not fit through the front door of the rental) so we had to downgrade cage size. I feel bad, but it is only temporary until we get a bigger cage (but not so humongous that it won't fit through the front door... wait, if it's new I can get away with taking it apart to get it in and out of the house. The old one I couldn't get most of the screws loose!)

I was out trying to clean her temporary cage and wow, those bees just would not leave me alone. Clean horse waters? Forget it! I had to have my brother hold the flashlight (still afraid of the dark at almost 13...) while I scrubbed the waters out after dark. Then he took off for the house and I spent the next half hour filling water buckets and awkwardly picking up manure with flashlight in one hand, fork in the other.

Then I forgot to drink enough today and had mild heat stroke, which means lots of headaches and nausea.

I hate today. It was horrible. I'm actually looking forward to Monday! :lol:


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Tough day, I feel for you.

Wonder how long it will take for the bees that were away during the move to find the new location?


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Hopefully things will calm down in a day or two.

If I thought my neighbors were getting into my barns I think I'd have a little fun with a motion activated sprinkler. My well water is ice cold all year round.

You would have to place it where the horses weren't setting it off but it could be amusing listening to a howl caused by ice water in the middle of the night.

Amazon.com: motion activated sprinklers


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Horseluvr, I'm sure you have lots of damp manure. Build layers with it and old hay. The hay and damp manure should create a good smoke. The calmer the weather the better it works. Smudge smoke is a cold smoke. It will rise maybe 15' in the air then some back down, settling closer to the ground.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Saddlebag said:


> Horseluvr, I'm sure you have lots of damp manure. Build layers with it and old hay. The hay and damp manure should create a good smoke. The calmer the weather the better it works. Smudge smoke is a cold smoke. It will rise maybe 15' in the air then some back down, settling closer to the ground.


Yep! I have plenty of damp manure. I actually have a separate trash can for the manure, so it stays in a covered bin. The smell is _rank_ compared to the dried out manure, but its only smelly when the lid is off.

Our weather is pretty calm except for the strong winds we get some days.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

anndankev said:


> Tough day, I feel for you.
> 
> Wonder how long it will take for the bees that were away during the move to find the new location?


They won't, because the bee hives are now 3 miles away. In a week or so, they are going to move their hives back to the other side of their property.

I'm just worried about this last bee box. I don't want another hive getting built next to my horses.

On the bright side, I was out for an hour this morning and bees were not aggressive at all today.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

SueNH said:


> Hopefully things will calm down in a day or two.
> 
> If I thought my neighbors were getting into my barns I think I'd have a little fun with a motion activated sprinkler. My well water is ice cold all year round.
> 
> ...


That would be hilarious! :lol: But I'm pretty sure they are not coming on our property. It was my mare getting bored and opening gates.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

So I went out to feed this morning and the last hive was gone. YAY!! No more bee problems! I actually didn't see a single bee this morning, when they are usually hanging around me and the horses. They were bothering me all week but I didn't say anything about the last hive because I was thinking they would move it by the end of the week, and they did.

I kind of want to make homemade peanut butter cookies and give them to the neighbors as a 'thank you for moving bees' gesture, but I'm not sure. If I did, it's not like I want to get all neighborly friendly with them again (like I'm not asking them to watch my animals or borrow things or things like that), but I do want to clear the air a little bit. Just so we are not totally awkward.

They are probably ****ed as we never did give the internet back. But the landlord didn't want to, and it is his internet, so I'm just doing what he wants to.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

horseluvr2524 said:


> So I went out to feed this morning and the last hive was gone. YAY!! No more bee problems! I actually didn't see a single bee this morning, when they are usually hanging around me and the horses. They were bothering me all week but I didn't say anything about the last hive because I was thinking they would move it by the end of the week, and they did.
> 
> I kind of want to make homemade peanut butter cookies and give them to the neighbors as a 'thank you for moving bees' gesture, but I'm not sure. If I did, it's not like I want to get all neighborly friendly with them again (like I'm not asking them to watch my animals or borrow things or things like that), but I do want to clear the air a little bit. Just so we are not totally awkward.
> 
> They are probably ****ed as we never did give the internet back. But the landlord didn't want to, and it is his internet, so I'm just doing what he wants to.


I think that's a good idea and hopefully they'll see it as a good will gesture.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

You can always just leave it in the mailbox addressed to them (so the postman doesn't think it's for him) with a note that says, "THANKS!"


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

^^^^they'd be even less likely to eat them if cookies mysteriously showed up in their mailbox! :lol: and add in 100 degree heat, it would not end well.

I just wonder if I do make the cookies, if they will throw them out thinking I did something to it, which I never would! But it seems kind of weird to give store bought.


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## Frieda (May 17, 2014)

horseluvr2524 said:


> ^^^^they'd be even less likely to eat them if cookies mysteriously showed up in their mailbox! :lol: and add in 100 degree heat, it would not end well.
> 
> I just wonder if I do make the cookies, if they will throw them out thinking I did something to it, which I never would! But it seems kind of weird to give store bought.


The point is that you are making them and offering an olive branch, not whether they'd eat them. So I say go ahead and be magnanimous and make the gesture.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I think the cookies is a great idea, and even if they are not gracious when you give either, it will still impact on them as a reconciliatory gesture.

Most definitely give in person.

PB cookies may be your favourite... But if you can do chocolate brownies that might be even better? A lot of people don't like PB. And some are allergic too :shock: that would be an unfortunate gesture.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

hmm... yeah I could do brownies. But then I am not making them from scratch. I hate cooking, that's why I wouldn't want them to go to waste :lol:

In fact, I hate kitchen work so much I actually put it in one of my songs (I am a songwriter)

"I don't like doing dishes
I'm not your cooking kind of missus
although I like taking out"

:lol: I get a lot of grief over my hatred of kitchen work. XD


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I'll also have to yell at them over the fence to call them over so I can give it to them. Can't knock on their door because of the rotties. I really don't want to talk over phone.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

horseluvr2524 said:


> I'll also have to yell at them over the fence to call them over so I can give it to them. Can't knock on their door because of the rotties. I really don't want to talk over phone.


Hee Hee, what a joyous cookie-giving moment this will be...

Horseluvr: "Hey! HEY! I have something for you!"

Neighbour: "What? what do you want? We've moved the ***** bees, what are you yelling for?"

Horseluvr: "I have some cookies for you!!"

Neighbour: "WHAT?!"

Horseluvr: "I have some cookies for you!!"

Neighbour: "WHY?"

Horseluvr: "Because I thought you might like them....!"

Neighbour: "Are they internet cookies?"

...............sorry, the picture of you trying to yell over a fence to make a gift just tickled me. I still think you should give them the cookies though. Can this whole episode be inspiration for your next song?

"Fell out with my neighbour
Over some Beeeeees,
Fell out with my neighbour
Oh they don't love meee.
I don't like their bees, I don't like their honey
Don't give them no wi-fi, won't give them no money.
But I made them some cookies, to soften them up.
Full of peanuts and sugar, gluten and fat,
Just can't seem to work out,
How to get where they are at.
Fell out with neighbour
Over some Beeeeeeees"


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

XD That is not only hilarious but extremely creative and amusing!


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Shropshirerosie said:


> Hee Hee, what a joyous cookie-giving moment this will be...
> 
> Horseluvr: "Hey! HEY! I have something for you!"
> 
> ...


Wow... that made me giggle! :lol: Now why would I need to write a song about it when you already did such a great job! And I write Christian music, so I can say it would go something like this:

"God give me grace for bees, oh please
They've been no end of trouble for me
The neighbors won't move them,
nor will they send them
faaaar from me
God give me grace for bees, oh please
and let it be known that I
I try to be good
but sometimes I would
give them a kick in the derriere"

I was always better at free verse :wink:

To be honest, I wouldn't mind the honey! Honestly, I don't care that they keep bees, just didn't want them next to my horses in a high traffic area for me. The bees can get really aggressive when you are near the hives, otherwise they usually leave me alone. And the wifi, well that was landlord's choice. I don't blame him for it!

As the days wear on, I don't feel much like giving cookies. Mostly that's because of either having to call or yell over the fence at them, instead of being able to nicely knock on the door. They should get a door bell for their front gate that goes to the house.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Hey, just had a thought. Anyone ever give PB cookies to horses? is it safe? Chan usually wants me to share, and if she isn't pushy about it I often do. Silly mare, wants to be fat and lazy. And we are trying to learn pignon style liberty. She's learning how to be energetic, but she seems to dislike early mornings and doesn't like working in heat either (they say horses are a reflection of yourself) so doesn't leave me much of a window of time now that summer has hit (with brutal, deadly, sweltering, oven-like force).


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Did I read correctly that they will be bringing the bees back, but placing them on the other side of the property? Sorry to tell you, but you will still be bothered with bees. 
I get Tons of bees and the closest hive is 1/4 to 1/2 mile from me. They drop super hives out near me . I hate them. One year the horses could not get to the troughs, and I had to file complaints with CoOp Ag dept .


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Well they will be bothering the bees more than bo. Because now they have to walk past them and they will aggravate them before OP. So now its not just OPs issue, it will be theirs too. They will get tired of it as well and may just get rid of them. Or they just have a hole in their bag of marbles. Ether one.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

So, an update! Haven't seen a single bee since last hive was moved. There was a yellow jacket bothering my poor horse yesterday though (see? I know the difference between a yellow jacket and a bee!). It was the first time that has ever happened, I don't see them very often and they usually leave us alone.

I had my other, non bee neighbors, taking care of my animals over the weekend. They fed the horses way too much. They actually fed them so much that I haven't given them anything because I'm waiting for them to clean up what they got! :lol: so they've had free choice for a few days. Next time, I'm just going to have them feed using the hay nets. That will help them figure out how much to feed.

Love my other neighbors though! They don't have any animals, but they love ours :wink:


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Shropshirerosie said:


> To those saying that the neighbour should be allowed to keep his bees where he wants, I suggest they read the OP's original thread.
> 
> I started with those thoughts but I then came to the conclusion that bee keepers also have responsibility to be sensible.
> 
> The neighbours could have place the hives on their property where they would NOT cause problems, but they didn't. They put them right next to their property boundary near to the OP's land, and they didn't respond sensibly or kindly when their bees swarmed and caused major problems.


Maybe the neighbors feel the same way about horses and would prefer they were not on the property line. What if they were allergic to horses? I doubt the OP would get rid of the horses.
Maybe they have a legitimate reason for putting the hives where they are.
When I put up a run in shed I put it in the best place for me and I followed the codes. Unfortunatley it isn't a very good place as far as my neighbors are concerned but I didn't have many options.


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