# Neglected horse at barn (question)



## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

Legally, you can't touch this mare without the owners permission. You could contact the owner, that is the most you could do. Or you could call a welfare group and organise for them to have a look at her, and you don't have to tell them who you are or if you do, ask them if you can remain anonymous. I personally wouldn't ring the farrier to trim her as she isn't your horse and it could start a big riot. 

I guess the most you can do is keep an eye on her, possibly ring the owners and confront him/her about it, ring a welfare group, or ask the yard owner to give the owner of the mare a call.

Hope I have helped.


----------



## Kennedy (Jan 4, 2011)

Yeah I figured it wouldn't be legal to handle the mare without proper permission. So I guess I will call the stable tomorrow and ask if they could relay a message to the owner.


----------



## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

That would be my best bet, I hope this mare will be ok. I am actually pleased you are doing somthing about it, most people will look and just say "Not my problem" But I commend you for having a care for the poor girl.

Good luck!


----------



## Kennedy (Jan 4, 2011)

So I just left the barn a message and my number. I really hope they alert the owner; the mare needs to get her hooves trimmed asap.

We shall see I guess...


----------



## Kennedy (Jan 4, 2011)

So minor update, if anyone cares:

I told my trainer in an email that I notified the barn and now she is telling me to call them back and tell them it is none of my business. She thinks it will get HER in trouble. And that she could care less if the horses leg fell off. I thought she cared about the care of animals. You can't trust anyone.


----------



## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

I'd call your local animal control/humane society and leave that barn - I would not train with any trainer who felt so cold about a living creature that is obviously suffering. I would also tell her exactly why you are leaving, and maybe it will get her thinking.

It sickens me how so many things in the horse world are hushed up.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

While I believe that your heart is in the right place, you do need to understand that this really isn't your concern. If you are that upset about the horses condition, let your trainer know that you are uncomfortable training at a barn that would allow a horse to get in such a state. 

Your trainers business relies deeply on a barn allowing her to train there. Some barn owners take deep offense to outsiders commenting on boarder horses conditions. I know I would. While you see it as just trying to help, others will feel that it is meddling in someone elses business. 

Also, you are not at the barn 24/7. What if this horses owner comes later/earlier than you do. What if this horses owner is sick? What if they are disabled? What if life circumstances have taken them away from horses? While it is hard for us to imagine a life without horses, life happens.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Although I don't condone the trainers attitude, I can understand it. For her, it might mean losing her job if she interferes with any boarder's horse. I bet in her career there have been SOOOO many situations where she saw a horse being neglected or mistreated and her heart ached to do something about it, but ONE she cannot help them all, and TWO, she is dependent on horse owners paying for her services, so she mush keep her mouth in careful control. It is a hard place to be.

On the other hand, I don't see how she thinks that the barn owners will think YOUR emailing them had anything to do with her.
How very distressing for you and for this poor mare. I hope that a solution materializes that works for you guys . I know I would find it hard to walk away.


----------



## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

I DO understand it is HER responsibility as an owner to care for her horse and provide adequate services for it, if she isn't taking care of this mare, I think that action should be taken. If she is disabled, sick ect, wouldn't she have someone caring for the horse for her?
I am not starting an arguement here guys


----------



## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

If she said she didn't care if the horse's leg falls off (I'm sure that was an exaggeration, but nonetheless), I don't see how this trainer's heart has ached for much. Just my feelings on it.

Whether the owner comes earlier or later is irrelevant. Neglect is neglect is neglect. Whether they come at all or come all the time. If they are sick or disabled, either they think the horse is being cared for and would WANT to know, or they don't care and it needs to be taken away.

Maybe it's just my barn, but I know my barn owner doesn't tolerate anyone lacking on care for the horses - the boarder's horses are cared for to an at least acceptable level, or they are asked to leave and she notifies AC.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

So you are willing to condemn an owner you don't know based upon statements coming from a person you don't know? 

If the horse is in danger or is terribly thin, that is the BO's problem. If the horse needs a brushing and a trim, that is the owners problem. Neither are any of the OP's business. 

OP how long has this horse been in this state? How long have you been there?


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Kennedy said:


> So at my barn, in the area that my trainer has her horses, there is this tall bay mare. I've never once seen an owner take her out and the only interaction she *seems* to get is from me on the weekends from outside her stall and the hired hands mucking and feeding.
> 
> *OP doesn't know this to be fact. Other lesson students, her owner, may be out at other times during the day/week.*
> 
> ...


----------



## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

Based on the information at hand yes. It's my opinion assuming what the OP says is correct. And it's not necessarily condemning anyone, perhaps I came off too harsh. But I think it should be looked into.

If we all went around and turned a blind eye to horses with questionable care when it's "none of our business", thousands upon thousands of horses would never be rescued.

Personally, I think to some degree it is the OP's business. She is a student there, paying to train there, and the situation with this horse understandingly makes her feel uncomfortable. She has the right to question it. To take charge and do anything? No. But definitely the right to question it, because at least if it were me, it could be the basis of my choice to stay or leave that place. I don't care how good a trainer or barn owner is; if they allow neglect of any horse to knowing go on in their facility, I don't want any part of their training or services.


----------



## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

Good situation I have in example I just thought of.

I moved my horse from the barn she came from for various reasons, but I did take lessons there for a couple of months. My reasons for leaving were not bad. It's a good barn.

They had a couple of very skinny mares in blah condition. I asked about their history, and nobody was offended and I discovered they were both rescue cases bought from ignorant/neglectful owners.

It's possible the mare is a rescue, sure, depending on how long the OP has been there. I realize I came off condemning the owner in question quick. Regardless, I stand by my opinion that the OP has a right to an explanation on the mare's condition.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I just don't like taking the word of others. There are always two sides to every story. If there were a horse like this at a training stable I paid to be at, I wouldn't stay long. 

I doubt a BO is going to turn a blind eye to a horse that is in plain view of everyone. BO's cannot make a boarder brush their horse. Some will write up that horses need to see a farrier but some also leave that out. 

I don't like that the trainer has become the villain here. She is just protecting her right to work. Maybe she sees the horse and, with a more trained eye, doesn't see anything bad going on. If I were her trainer and my living depended upon a good relationship with a good stable, I would instruct my student to butt out.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

That is very possible. The horse could also be old, sick, a boarder surrender...etc. There are lots of reasons why horses get into bad condition. Not all of them are "The owner is a jerk and doesn't care about this horse"


----------



## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

I don't understand why you think the horse's condition is none of her business. Just because the animal isn't hers doesn't mean she shouldn't be concerned about it. Otherwise, why does Animal Control exist? It sure as heck isn't because the owners decide to call and report thenselves because they aren't taking good enough care of their animals.

That being said, maybe she is overreacting and the horse is fine. Maybe she's right and the horse is in a bad spot. I really don't know. But I don't think you should say it's none of her business.


----------



## DressageIsToDance (Jun 10, 2010)

I don't necessarily think the trainer is the villian here, but the attitude the OP is describing is, at least *to me* unacceptable. I don't see what she has to do with the OP's concern over the horse, UNLESS the OP puts her name into it. Then I can see the concern the trainer would have a rightfully so.


----------



## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

It is her business to some degree as another poster said. But I think it is good for her having a care for the horse. Yes the horse may be old and may have a medical condition or it not may be old or have any medical condition but she is CARING about this horse. You can't tell me if you go past a bit of a skinny or an unhealthy looking horse you don't think "He needs a little fat on him" or "He needs to be wormed a little".


----------



## WhoaNow (Jan 18, 2011)

Neglect of animals is everybody's business in a *public* boarding facility.
It puts other boarder's horses in jeopardy if this horse is ill, etc.
There is no harm in the OP inquiring into the condition of this horse. 
She has a right to know if there are any problems with this horse since she boards her own animals there.
But to physically do anything beyond 'inquiring' falls under the responsibility of the BO or BM.
JMO

Good luck with this horse,..., glad you care enough to make the effort:wink:


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Beyond alerting the proper authorities, the OP has no right or say concerning this horse. 

She's severely overstepping her boundaries if she tries to take on the care and feeding of this animal.

It's fine to be concerned if the animal is as bad as reported, but this is not her horse, and legally she has no right to do anything with or to this animal.

This is similar to something that _almost_ happened to a horse I own. I had him boarded, and the BO had a kid who came out and cleaned stalls several times a week so she could get a horsey fix.

My gelding is very reactive, and at that time was a total spazz and head case. This kid decided that he needed to be 'Parellied', and that would magically fix him.

I told her, the BO, and the kid's mother in no uncertain terms that she was NOT to touch my horse, because he could be dangerous, and I sure as heck didn't want some snot nosed kid farking him up with her pwetty poneh Parelli ideas.

Bottom line, this is _not_ the OP's horse. Being concerned is one thing. Trying to take over the animal because she doesn't believe it's being cared for properly is a whole 'nother ball of wax.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

WhoaNow said:


> Neglect of animals is everybody's business in a *public* boarding facility.
> It puts other boarder's horses in jeopardy if this horse is ill, etc.
> There is no harm in the OP inquiring into the condition of this horse.
> She has a right to know if there are any problems with this horse since she boards her own animals there.
> ...


I totally agree.
I'm a barn owner & board horses for people also. One horse owner seldom sees his horse & then only if I call him about a problem. He once went almost 2 years without seeing his horse. I take care of all the horse's needs. He's groomed, feet trimmed every 6-7 weeks, dewormed-anything he needs, plus treats & loving on. You would not be able to tell he has an absent owner. That's my job.
If I saw a horse here in need of something I would have it done way before it got out of hand. If there was a continuing problem I that I constantly had to nag the owner about I would ask them to leave.
If I had a trainer in who made those non-caring comments they would not be welcomed back. The comfort & safety of all the horses here are my main concern, regardless of who owns them.
The BO in question should be making regular rounds if they are not hands on daily or their staff should be reporting to them. I would inform them of the mare's condition.
BO's get a bad rap because some allow things like that to go on. It shouldn't be all about money. 
I feel that anyone who boards at my place has a vested interest in what goes on. This should be a calm happy retreat, not a place to be stressed over the neglect of another animal.
If more people spoke up & asked question we would hear fewer stories like this.
Remember, that same lack of caring & empathy may someday be directed at you or your horse.


----------



## Zimpatico (Nov 5, 2010)

I would be very concerned if a horse like this resided at my barn. Our BM/trainer would never allow a boarded horse get to this condition. If an animal is not being cared for, the owners would be asked to rectify the situation, and if they do not, they are then asked to leave. If the horse is in such a condition, I would move my horse out of there pronto, with a letter to the BO explaining why I was leaving. If I thought the horse was in pain, danger, or extremely poor health, and no one was doing anything about it, I see no problem in alerting Animal Control and letting them deal with the situation.


----------



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Agree with Natisha totally. The OP has every right to ask anything she wants. If my trainer EVER told me to butt out in a situation similar to this, they would soon be my EX trainer. I am my own person, and I will ask questions when I think they are appropriate. If the person asking them has an issue with it, they, and only they, can tell me. My DH used to try and tell me what to say and not say too.....didn't fly for him, so it won;t fly for anyone else either.

Agree that feeding, touching, or interfering physically is totally out of bounds. But talking? Can't hurt to ask, ever, IMO. WE have some pretty skinny horses at the barn I moved to last fall....when I asked (prior to moving) they are extremely geriatric, and everything imaginable is being done.....but sure didn't hurt to ask!


----------



## WhoaNow (Jan 18, 2011)

natisha said:


> I totally agree.
> I'm a barn owner & board horses for people also.
> One horse owner seldom sees his horse & then only if I call him about a problem.
> He once went almost 2 years without seeing his horse.
> ...


I certainly agree with this posters thoughts:wink:.
Neglect is everybody's concern.
I have a friend who runs a boarding stable, and rarely sees many of the owners, just gets the monthly check:?.
If not for the love and attention he gives their horses, they would have NO human interaction.
And personally, I consider that neglectful.
Whats the point of owning the animal, if you don't actually have enough time to give to it?
And, of course, there are always extenuating circumstances,..., but our 'pets' need and deserve our 'time'.
JMO:wink:



Zimpatico said:


> I would be very concerned if a horse like this resided at my barn.
> Our BM/trainer would never allow a boarded horse get to this condition.
> If an animal is not being cared for, the owners would be asked to rectify the situation,
> and if they do not, they are then asked to leave.
> ...


I'm surprised most of the horses aren't on any regular farrier, vet schedule, 'in house' so to speak.
I would think the BO/BM would want every horse in the barn wormed, feet done, shots, etc. regularly.
In my opinion, that is part and parcel of horse ownership.


----------



## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have to agree with CorinoWalk on this one. She's right.

The OP is assuming the owner never comes based on the fact that he/she has never been there at the same time as her. What's to say the owner doesn't come when she's at school/work/home? What's to say the owner doesn't live out of town? Out of country? What's to say the owner hasn't worked out a deal with the barn owner or the trainer?

The horse could be old, it could suffer from a known and treated health issue. There are so many unknowns that it isn't really fair to label the horse as neglected, especially if it is in a barn full of well cared for animals. 

I do think it is ok to ask the trainer or the BO, but I don't think it's time to rush out and call animal control. That's not very fair. If the horse isn't in any immediate danger then it should be ok to take the time to do the proper research before making accusations.

I think it's great that people take notice when it comes to the welfare of animals and I think it's awesome that people are willing to take the extra steps to ensure they are properly cared for but it needs to be done in a fair and educated way....

Good luck!


----------



## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Without judging right or wrong in this case, as I think that has been covered, the one thing that puzzles and concerns me is the trainer's reaction. I understood the OP to say that the trainer didn't know anything about the horse. I fail to see how the OP writing and email to the BO asking about the horse should stress the trainer out so badly unless the trainer either A. Knows more than she is letting on or B. is supposed to be handling the care of the horse and is not. Otherwise there would be no reason for her to get so worked up over a simple email. 

If I had a trainer that acted in such a way, regardless, she would quickly find herself my ex-trainer.


----------



## cebee (Apr 4, 2010)

I was wondering too if maybe the trainer is supposed to be keeping an eye on the horses, and she is afraid the BO will be upset with her ( the trainer ) if the condition of the horse is brought to the BO, or owners attention. The owner may not be able to visit regularly, and not be aware that the care they THOUGHT was being provided is not. This would reflect on the trainer, if keeping an eye on this was supposed to be her responsibility. So of course she would not want it brought to the BO/owners attention! 
Of course, everyone's standards of horse grooming is different. My boy looks filthy alot- not because he is not groomed, but because the minute he is clean he is rolling in the dirt again! 
I dont think it hurts to mention it to the BO tho- all depends on how it is presented... expressing concern is a lot different than insinutaing neglect...


----------



## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

cebee said:


> I was wondering too if maybe the trainer is supposed to be keeping an eye on the horses, and she is afraid the BO will be upset with her ( the trainer ) if the condition of the horse is brought to the BO, or owners attention. The owner may not be able to visit regularly, and not be aware that the care they THOUGHT was being provided is not. This would reflect on the trainer, if keeping an eye on this was supposed to be her responsibility. So of course she would not want it brought to the BO/owners attention!
> Of course, everyone's standards of horse grooming is different. My boy looks filthy alot- not because he is not groomed, but because the minute he is clean he is rolling in the dirt again!
> I dont think it hurts to mention it to the BO tho- all depends on how it is presented... expressing concern is a lot different than insinutaing neglect...


Agree with this. The OP said that the horse is in an area that the trainer uses for her horses; I would think that the trainer should be VERY interested to make sure that no one could possibly think that the horse was in her care. If the horse was not in her care, I actually can see her saying something to the OP like, "I don't care if her leg falls off, you can't (or I can't) touch that horse..." to emphasize the legal perspective that's already been discussed. I don't think the OP realized how significant this legal issue is, based on her post. 

So, giving everybody the benefit of the doubt that the mare is being cared for at least physically, maybe the OP could ask the BO if she could get permission to groom the mare and give her some attention. The worst that could happen is that they'll say no. 

The OP doesn't have many options as far as changing the horse's situation. She can report the situation to AC, and maybe 'fired' as a student, and certainly everyone will know/guess that she was the anonymous reporter; or she could call the barn vet and report her concerns to see if the vet's aware of the horse already. If she calls the vet to report the concern, she may never know what the vet did or didn't do about it because of confidentiality.


----------



## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The trainer has nothing to do with this horse and her attitude toward it is irrelevent. If her income is based solely on the students she has at this facility and the ability to train there then that should rightfully be her top priority. If the OP wants to inquire about the welfare of the horse, assuming that it is ldone with some tact, then I see no problem there but she should be prepared to be told to mind her own business. I would guess that the condition of the horse has been exaggerated but even if it hasn't, the horse is in a clean stall and is fed twice a day which is not neglect.


----------



## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

While I understand both sides of this, I needed to point out that again, these are all unfounded statements. Word of mouth stories tend to grow as those tell them. I am not accusing anyone of anything but it is all hearsay. 

Think of this from the horse owners standpoint. You have a horse. You come visit when you can. You work hard to pay board on said horse. Some student comes along and doesn't like the fact that you don't brush daily. The student then makes claims that your horse is thin, in need of farrier work and more grain. All claims made by a student that you don't even know. A student that has no idea how you care for your horse because they couldn't possibly be there 24/7. 



While in a perfect world, we would visit our horses daily, isn't that what we pay BO's for?


----------



## starlinestables (Nov 24, 2008)

This is why I include farrier and worming in my boarding fee. There are absent owners at every barn and I'm not in the business to judge them so I just take it out of the equation. Works out well 90% of the time.


----------



## Buckcherry (Nov 18, 2010)

I have to say I am actually baffled at some of the comments on this thread.. If I saw a horse being neglected I would absolutely speak up and for one mention something to the owner and maybe offer help if they need it. And I would absolutely do anything in my power to relieve the horse of discomfort. And if I got in trouble for helping a helpless animal so be it.. 
Whats the judge going to say " Well your going to jail for helping out a animal in need" 

And if the BO and the trainers don't care enought to say something to the owner of the horse I would think twice about remaining at that barn. I would not want to be at a barn where money is higher on the priority list than the horses care, because they are worried about losing clients. 

Anyone that would stand around and let a horse or any animals be neglected is heartless and I commend OP for standing up for an being who doesn't have a voice..


----------



## SunshineofmyLife (Jan 24, 2011)

Tough issue. There have been several times in my life when I stood up for someone/something and paid the price. Having said that, I'm still glad I took the stand. There is nothing wrong with contacting the owner. You don't have to insult them. However, one trim is not going to resolve the issue. Whatever the reason, it is up the the owner of the facility to make sure the horses he's caring for are not neglected. So, the owner of your facility is at fault for allowing it to go on. Your issue is with him. And your trainer? I simply can't find the words to express my feelings! If she's only in it for the money, she's worthless to you, and could care less if YOUR legs fell off!


----------

