# 3 year old. Second time jumping.



## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

He's cute! Why can't he be an all- arounder?
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## ginaxmarie13 (Aug 2, 2011)

He is so cute!!! I ride the hunters, and he uses his neck very nicely even over this small jump! If he can learn to get his knees even, he looks like he would make a great hunter as long as his striding between the fences is consistent. Gymnastics helps with the knee thing, like bounces and one strides. And he seems to enjoy jumping by his happy expression


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

No reason he can't do both! In fact, that would make him WAYYYY more marketable.


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## LynnF (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys. Like I said this was only our second time jumping so I don't really want to start any gymnastics or anything too tricky for him until he calms down and gets good at just one jump. I have been marketing him so far as started both english and western but I am wondering if I would have more luck if I just picked one discipline and stuck with it.


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## ginaxmarie13 (Aug 2, 2011)

If you don't think he can handle learning two at once, then don't do it. But if he is happy and remembers what you teach him, then go for it! I've trained a couple horses to jump, and it really really helps to put a couple ground poles before the fence so they learn where to put their feet. As they get used to it and get some more scope naturally, then the gymnastics come in handy, but yes you're right not for awhile. but i agree, i think you should try the two disciplines!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

He seems to be a cute horse, but one photo is not much to go by. Any way to post a video? One taken from the side?

Please, don't jump anything higher than this, at his age. He needs flatwork to get him into the jumps with enough haunch engagement and balance to be ABLE to get his knees up and even. I suspect he was very heavy on the forehand, as judged by where his knees are going.

Go slow with him, right now. I know he is for sale, but slow flatwork, especially at his young age, will go farther toward getting him ready for jumping than just tossing him over a jump.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Allison Finch said:


> Go slow with him, right now. I know he is for sale, but slow flatwork, especially at his young age, will go farther toward getting him ready for jumping than just tossing him over a jump.


I agree. At three they are not yet balanced. Jumping will add to the confusion of 'where do my feet go'?

Flatwork will build the leg from the inside out. Horse will be sounder - longer.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

He is a nice horse with a wonderful attitude and could be a lovely prospect for many dicplines I imagine.

In my humble opinion, 60 days is not enough to begin jumping and 3yo is a little young. I would be working on establishing a strong foundation. Personally, if I was looking for any type of jumper and came across a 3yo that had begun jumping after minimal flatwork I would avoid him like the plague.

In regards to the following:



LynnF said:


> Thanks for the input guys. Like I said this was only our second time jumping so I don't really want to start any gymnastics or anything too tricky for him until he calms down and gets good at just one jump.


This thinking is a little backwards. _Any_ horse can throw itself over a single 2 foot jump. Teaching them to jump correctly is much harder and _requires_ gymnastics/cavaletti work to establish good form. I would recommend starting with ground poles and teaching him distances/striding first.

All that said he looks like a nice horse and I wish you luck finding him a good home.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I am flabbergasted that you are even considering to jump him, when he's only 3 years old. If I was in the market for a horse, I would bypass him seeing that he's already jumping fences at that young of age - just asking for joint issues down the road.

Just because you market him as an English Horse, doesn't mean he has to be jumping. Focus on tons of dressage work, where you are riding him competantly so he can be using himself efficiantly, to develop a nicely balanced, sound happy horse - so that when he is ready to jump, he'll be that much more prepared and successful at it.

One has to understand that jumping is dressage with speed bumps. Dressage is an extension of your jumping, what is the most important factor to the sport, is the quality of ride you have between your fences, which is what makes your fence good or bad. It's not about pointing to a fence and just going over it.....its about setting both you and your horse up for success.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

In addition to what the others have said, you aren't doing very much to make his job easier or understandable. 

At the very least, please use groundlines on each side of the fence, rolled out at least a foot from the base. Filler isn't a bad idea either. A single rail with no ground line and no filler is hard for the horse to see and to judge distance. 

When I start babies over fences, I like to start out with 3 - 4 cavaletti set for trotting, then a gap, then a little pile of poles. Then I change the little pile of poles to a cross rail and eventually a little vertical. 

This helps teach the horse to judge distance, and to bring his hind legs together and engage and push off evenly. (The distance between his hind legs, as well as the uneven knees, really tell you this little guy doesn't have much idea how to do what you're asking.)

Your position - standing up in the stirrups and crotch ahead of the pommel - is weighting his front end and making his job harder. When schooling unbalanced greenies over fences, you have to be very, very conscious of your position and balance because it can affect them so dramatically. 

I do have to compliment your release, your hand and arm is relaxed and soft, and there's a nice little float to the rein. 

I love this horse's attitude, soft, willing expression and the way he's stretching forward with his head and neck. Figure out how to set him up for success, both by constructing appropriate exercises and by your position, and you'll be on your way to a nice horse.

ETA: I wouldn't be jumping much more than crossrails on a 3 year old.


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## LynnF (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks for all of your input. I have to admit this is the first horse I have taught to jump so I had contacted a local trainer to ask about how soon to start and how to start him etc. She had told me that at 3 if they have a solid walk, trot and canter and moved off you leg felt well balanced you could go ahead and start them over a few small jumps. He has done tons of trot pole work and the first few time I jumped it was a small x-rail after some trot poles. She told me its best to just set up a small jump because trot poles just confuse them. I am very upset to hear that I have been doing this all wrong and am confused as to why she would tell me to do it this way. I would love some more input.
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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Three is too young for jumping. You know he will do it with a nice attitude and he won't forget that. Work on your groundwork and saddle with trail riding to keep his young mind fresh.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Personaly my just broken neddy wont be going anywhere near jumps for a good year or so. We will establish the basics first and that doesnt mean just walk, trot and canter, that means walk trot and canter in a nice soft supple and correct outline, in canter being able to strike off on the correct leg. It means being able to some degree to control the length of stride within a gait (not expecting high level dressage control at this point but basics), being able to balance himself on turns and having control of exactly where he puts his shoulders.

Once we have that he will be introduced to very small caveletti or X poles (he will have done pole work whilst establishing the flatwork basics), with placing poles in front and probably a lead from an established horse. we may or may not build from there depending on how he takes to it. If we do build it further, lots and lots and lots of gymnastic exercises, lots and lots and lots of flat work.

I agree If I were looking for a horse (and I have done so fairly recently) anything under 4 that has done any more then the basics would be bypassed. anything under 5 that had been extensivly jumped I'd bypass.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Totally agree with everyone here. Tons of circles, serpentines, flat work to get this horse balanced and using himself properly. Ground poles are great, and get those changes down if you have the time. The jumps can wait! You cannot rebuild arthritic joints after the fact. TOns of transitions....well, you get the idea. I always throw in some trail rides also, which are just good mentally, plus exposes them to more "stuff" (like the super scary water........lol)There is no rushing a good foundation. It is far easier to build it right the first time.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

i agree with him being to young. I would say popping him over a few small here and there might be okey but i wouldn't till you make sure he is fully developed and also as others have said has all the necessary solid groundwork done first then I would introduce the real work and jump training to him.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

LynnF said:


> Thanks for all of your input. I have to admit this is the first horse I have taught to jump so I had contacted a local trainer to ask about how soon to start and how to start him etc. She had told me that at 3 if they have a solid walk, trot and canter and moved off you leg felt well balanced you could go ahead and start them over a few small jumps. He has done tons of trot pole work and the first few time I jumped it was a small x-rail after some trot poles. She told me its best to just set up a small jump because trot poles just confuse them. I am very upset to hear that I have been doing this all wrong and am confused as to why she would tell me to do it this way. I would love some more input.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


if trot poles are too confusing for them, they shouldnt be jumping !

is she a jumping trainer or just an english trainer ?


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## LynnF (Jun 1, 2011)

She is a jumping trainer and has been training jumpers longer than I have been alive. Gypsy, I have been doing tons of trot poles with him and they are not confusing for him at all, I believe what she was saying is that when you start to jump you should just use a single fence because it is less for them to process than trot poles and a jump. I think I will take a step back and keep working on the basics, he seems to be doing well with everything, picks up both leads and is quite well balanced in circles and bends through circles but I don't want to push him too hard. I wonder how a trainer that has been training for 25 years can be so wrong? :S


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

(read the first line of my signature)

Everyone has their own method of training that they feel works for them but just because they have had some success with it, doesn't make it right. 

I agree with what has been said so far and disagree with the trainer you talked to - but that is just my opinion.


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## phoenix heartbeat (Feb 9, 2011)

Having a horse who was started over fences at age 3, I caution you. I have a 12 year old Arabian mare who was started over fences at 3 after 4 months of ground training. She has horrible arthritus and other issues. Jumping at that young of an age can cause seriouse physical AND mental problems down the line.

I two would pass over a horse that had been started over fences at age 3. I dont start them over fences untill around 5 or 6. I like to make sure i've taking the time to teach them everything they need to know before throwing jumps at them. Ground poles are ok. But not at age 3.

I am flabbergasted that you are even considering to jump him, when he's only 3 years old. If I was in the market for a horse, I would bypass him seeing that he's already jumping fences at that young of age - just asking for joint issues down the road.

And its not that the trainer you talking to was necessarily wrong. Like someone else said everyone has their own way of doing things. Some things work for some horses others dont.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

phoenix heartbeat said:


> Having a horse who was started over fences at age 3, I caution you. I have a 12 year old Arabian mare who was started over fences at 3 after 4 months of ground training. She has horrible arthritus and other issues. Jumping at that young of an age can cause seriouse physical AND mental problems down the line.
> 
> I two would pass over a horse that had been started over fences at age 3. I dont start them over fences untill around 5 or 6. I like to make sure i've taking the time to teach them everything they need to know before throwing jumps at them. Ground poles are ok. But not at age 3.
> 
> ...


I understand what you mean, but I just have a question. They start training Thoroughbreds at age 2 to start racing, which is just as bad, maybe worse then jumping at 3. Would you bypass a OTTB that started it's racing career at 2, but is sound?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Erika, that is why so many race horses have serious issues later in life.

Yes I would pass on an OTTB unless it was absolutly perfect for me and if it was absolutly perfect then I wouldnt be paying the kind of money I would for other horses and I'd go into it knowing full well that I would be extremely unlikely to have the horse for a very long time as it would likely break down before too long.


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## Artemis (Apr 27, 2010)

Where i live we hold the young horse championship every year. Classes 4 year to 6 year olds. For 4 year olds it‘s 100 cm course plus dressage ( 3‘3 is 100cm i think). I‘m just thinking that if a horse is not introduced to jumps before it gets 4 it has too little time to develop necessary skills for this competition. What i‘m thinking is I don‘t approve jumping youngsters on regular bases but introducing them what a jump is and teaching them how to react on that can‘t be all bad. But as said before flatwork should be done well before that. Just an oppinoin of mine. 

About your horse. My young one I taught was about the same his first and second time. My instructor insisted useing ground poles before the jump all the time till he gets what he has to do. Your horse might be a fine jumper in the future. It all depends how you decide to train him.
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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I would not market him as a jumper, and I would leave that picture out of your sale ad. I would not consider a 3 yr old who has started jumping.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

ErikaLynn said:


> I understand what you mean, but I just have a question. They start training Thoroughbreds at age 2 to start racing, which is just as bad, maybe worse then jumping at 3. Would you bypass a OTTB that started it's racing career at 2, but is sound?


I can't speak for others but...

An OTTB is not marketed as a jumper. It is marketed as a racehorse ready to be re-schooled. If you want to market a horse as a jumper it is a different kettle of fish. My comment was in relation not just to soundness concerns but also to gaps in the horses training.

If I was in the market for a jumper that is what I want - not a horse that needs to be re-schooled in order to jump.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Artemis said:


> Where i live we hold the young horse championship every year. Classes 4 year to 6 year olds. For 4 year olds it‘s 100 cm course plus dressage ( 3‘3 is 100cm i think). I‘m just thinking that if a horse is not introduced to jumps before it gets 4 it has too little time to develop necessary skills for this competition. What i‘m thinking is I don‘t approve jumping youngsters on regular bases but introducing them what a jump is and teaching them how to react on that can‘t be all bad. But as said before flatwork should be done well before that. Just an oppinoin of mine.


We have similar for event horses and showjumpers, however it is extremely rare to see something doing the 4yr old class then go on to do well at top level.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

phoenix heartbeat said:


> Having a horse who was started over fences at age 3, I caution you. I have a 12 year old Arabian mare who was started over fences at 3 after 4 months of ground training. She has horrible arthritus and other issues. Jumping at that young of an age can cause seriouse physical AND mental problems down the line.
> 
> I two would pass over a horse that had been started over fences at age 3. I dont start them over fences untill around 5 or 6. I like to make sure i've taking the time to teach them everything they need to know before throwing jumps at them. Ground poles are ok. But not at age 3.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with phoenix heartbeat. My old gelding was started over 2ft fences as a three-year-old (and when I say started, I mean they didn't do anything smaller than that...this was by the owners before me, not by me...I got him as the arthritic 6yo) and within a YEAR he started refusing jumps because his hocks already had arthritic changes. He loved to jump (and still would probably, if you really asked him) and had a decent talent for it, but because he was started so young, in a little less than a year later he was done with jumping forever. Now, he can only be used as a light trail horse with maybe some small W/T/C schooling shows for fun. He is 8-years-old and his right hock is already fused. As for the mental aspect of it...I'm not sure how it can ruin them, but I do know that any time Dakota saw a jump, he wanted to go over it, even though I knew he couldn't (in the winter, I had to W/T him for 20-30 minutes on the lungeline to warm him up and loosen up his hocks before we could even think about doing any kind of work).

My Aires is two-years-old and I definitely want to jump with him (XC if we can)...but I am waiting until he is AT LEAST five before even thinking about starting training him to jump. It's not fair to him to start earlier than that. For now, we'll be doing a lot of trails and a lot of flatwork.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

keep in mind that their growth plates in their legs are closed by 3-3.5yrs. if your argument is to not jump them before 5, its the growth plates in their back and neck that arent done yet, not their hocks...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> They start training Thoroughbreds at age 2 to start racing, which is just as bad, maybe worse then jumping at 3. Would you bypass a OTTB that started it's racing career at 2, but is sound?


Two wrongs do not make a right.

Yes, TBs are started early at the track. Yes, lots of retired race horses go on to have good careers doing other things.

That does not mean it is the best decision to be jumping your 3yo.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I honestly don't see anything wrong with jumping a 3 year old once in a while. That's just my opinion. It's when the jumping gets too excessive, jumping too high too fast, or over facing the horse, that's when it becomes a problem. The 5 year old horse can become just as badly hurt/sour as a 3 year old if he is jumped too much.

This is the OP's horse second time jumping...I doubt that he will become a cripple if he jumps small jumps occasionally.


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

The thing is with doing just a "few jumps once and a while" is that if you go over one jump and it was not good enough, you would try again and again until your happy with it. Though it may make no difference now but down the road the holes in training will show aswell as the horses health.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

I believe that three is in fact to young to be jumping - horses are still growing and it can cause issues now and later on in life. Don't rush your horse - he looks lovely, spend some time having fun on the flat with him. He has a lovely attitude - you don't want to ruin it by frightening him or hurting him while jumping.

Also - jumping is only dressage with speed bumps,


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Tasia said:


> The thing is with doing just a "few jumps once and a while" is that if you go over one jump and it was not good enough, you would try again and again until your happy with it. Though it may make no difference now but down the road the holes in training will show aswell as the horses health.



Oh yeah that makes sense. But the same thing will happen to the horse that is 5 years old with no proper training prior to jumping. I just think for younger horses or horses learning to jump, jumping should be done in moderation.


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> Oh yeah that makes sense. But the same thing will happen to the horse that is 5 years old with no proper training prior to jumping. I just think for younger horses or horses learning to jump, jumping should be done in moderation.


 Sarcasm?? 
I completley agree with jumping in moderation. I am just stating that its really easy to over do it. Whats the big deal with doing more flat work? I am sure there is many other things the rider can work on before jumping!


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

LynnF said:


> She is a jumping trainer and has been training jumpers longer than I have been alive. Gypsy, I have been doing tons of trot poles with him and they are not confusing for him at all, I believe what she was saying is that when you start to jump you should just use a single fence because it is less for them to process than trot poles and a jump. I think I will take a step back and keep working on the basics, he seems to be doing well with everything, picks up both leads and is quite well balanced in circles and bends through circles but I don't want to push him too hard. I wonder how a trainer that has been training for 25 years can be so wrong? :S


_Just want to say that I have ridden in a clinic with a former Olympic rider, who used trot poles going into jumps. For both the young AND old horses participating in the clinic._

_The clinic I was in this spring, under a high level rider, there was also trot poles going into jumps. Again, for both old and young horses._

_My coaches also use them every once in a while in a lesson. Keeps you and the horse on the toes._


_She isn't necessarily wrong. To her thinking, she is right, and a lot of other trainers would agree with her, in what she told you. Other trainers would say she is wrong, as you have found out. Honestly, I doubt anyone in the horse world see's the same thing the same. Learn that. Acknowledge it. Move past it. Take everything with a grain of salt._


_Just because you have been working on tons of trot poles, does not mean your horse is ready to be jumping very much. How are his transitions? Does he bend properly? Can he leg yeild? Can you shorten and lengthen his stride? There are lots of other more basic things you can work on. The very occasional jump--as in one jump once a month or every other month-- at this point probably won't hurt him, but every day or weekly jumping could. _

_I think with some more basics under him, he will be a very nice horse, as he has a lovely expression, and looks like he is willing to please._


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Tasia said:


> Sarcasm??
> I completley agree with jumping in moderation. I am just stating that its really easy to over do it. Whats the big deal with doing more flat work? I am sure there is many other things the rider can work on before jumping!


No, I wasn't being sarcastic. I understand what you're saying. And now I actually think we are agreeing?


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

ErikaLynn said:


> No, I wasn't being sarcastic. I understand what you're saying. And now I actually think we are agreeing?


 Ahaha :lol:. I have no idea, but I think so too.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ErikaLynn said:


> Would you bypass a OTTB that started it's racing career at 2, but is sound?


I probably would. I passed on youngster that was backed as a yearling. When I saw the pic of the 2 (quite big) kids sitting on top of him (I assume to assure me how calm he is) I just said "No" to the seller. Because who knows what else they did with him already.


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