# Being prepared when trail riding when you become the prey



## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

A knife is only going to help close up, way closer than I would want to be. Any kind of spray you'd better have a steady hand, a long thin stream (of spray) and little or no wind. In that situation I would carry a gun. I do not know how old you are or if you have any experience. Check the laws in your area. Long talk with parents, relatives, friends, law enforcement, gun dealers. Whoever could give you lessons. If you carry a gun, you had better know exactly how to use it and have LOTS of practice. Practice to be calm, knowledgeable and very precise.
You might be surprised how many police departments offer training. In Oct I will be attending a day long event w/ handguns, rifles and even archery. It is called Women on Target. Obviously it is for women, but many of the trainers/[participants will be law enforcement.
You have to be able to protect yourself.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

What state are you in? 

I have lived in Arizona my whole life and have never seen a live mountain lion. Bears, deer, elk, snakes, once even a badger. But never a mountain lion. I would think that would be awfully bold of a mountain lion. I've really only heard of things like that happening with sick mountain lions over in California. If it's chasing trucks and a group of riders, well, that's above and beyond normal behavior and needs to be reported to your game and fish authorities. :shock:

They are the ones that need to be taking care of it because that is not normal behavior and it poses a risk to everyone out there.


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

We did report our incident this evening and I had reported 2 other sightings in the past year...one on a trail behind my barn when I was riding my steady eddy and another one just sitting at the side of the highway as I drove. I have never seen a cougar ever around here until recently and they seem to be all over. Over the past year and a half cougars around here are coming into our community more and more. I teach at a school and even this year we had many sightings in the neighborhood. A week ago a boy was chased and the RCMP and conservation were out trying to track it. I was told by a conservation officer that they are coming closer and closer to town as the deer population in the bush is way down. I've lived in this town my whole life of 45 years and in the last couple of years there has been so many incidents and sightings with them than I have ever heard before. Also, these trails were closed over a month ago as there was a young bear that had charged a jogger.


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## gssw5 (Jul 30, 2013)

I don't know about cougars, but in general I would think most wild animals would be scared away by loud noises. 

Here in South Florida we don't have much in the way of large prey animals, mostly pigs, deer, panthers are rare, an occasional bear in central Florida. But when I ride in the woods I ride with a set of bells that jingle as we walk and if I need to I can shake them to make them louder. I also carry a whistle, an air horn and a bull whip if I need to make some noise I can. 

A gun is good for self defense and to make noise, but there are other things that will make noise and you don't need a license to carry.

Of course you would be advised to get your horse used to these sounds before you actually may have to use them.


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## littlebird (Jan 22, 2014)

Up here in BC the cougars have become a problem this summer as well. On Vancouver Island on the galloping goose trail (a well used and extremely popular foot/bike/horse trail with a lot of foot-traffic) a jogger was chased by a cougar all the way to her home. It was amazing that she outran it (just goes to show what good fitness and a burst of adrenaline can do I suppose). Here's a link to a news article on the incident: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/03/bc-woman-chased-cougar_n_5440758.html The cougars have been posing a threat to people this summer and the wildlife folks had to go out and shoot the animal before it got someone else. 



gssw5 said:


> I don't know about cougars, but in general I would think most wild animals would be scared away by loud noises.


The way these animals are behaving (chasing people into residential areas/chasing cars) loud noises will absolutely not scare them away or deter them from attacking.


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

remember what ever you do make sure the horse you are riding is use to it other wise you will spook him/her also


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Soak a patch in hoppe's number 9 and pin it on you hat......:wink:

Seriously, it appears you're in Canada and can't take a handgun.....but a handgun is really just needed to get you to your rifle or shotgun.

In your case....a shotgun.....loaded with buck shot.....if legal....


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

Littlebird I am on Vancouver Island up in Campbell River. We have had big problems with cougars since about a year and a half ago. I'm thinking the one we saw could be the one who stalked a 14 year old boy, chased another kid and ran after a truck even with a dog barking in the back box. Conservation have been out trying to find this cat with no luck. Unfortunately in Canada I can't just carry a gun around anywhere with me. I think the best idea is to just not go back in there. I've lived here all my life and never have there been so many sightings and incidences with people here. We were making loud noises and singing, but it kept paralleling us along the trail.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

IMO, big cats are much more dangerous than Grizzlies. IF they attack, you don't have time to draw a gun or maze. By the time you draw either, they are already on you. Bear do not stalk you like big cats. With bear, maze is very effective, not so with big cats.

If there's one cat there's most likely others. Best solution I have is to feed them. And that's very problematic. They must be fed without the scent of humans on the food. If they are not seeking food, they seldom bother humans. Is your deer population low? Usually, they get all they want to eat from deer. OR, this cat has already tasted human flesh. If that's the case it needs to be destroyed. 
OR, this cat was in captivity, and was someones pet. I find it hard to believe anyone could run away form them. If it was a pet, it was merely playing with the people it was chasing. BUT, that makes it even more dangerous. It may not know how to hunt wild life, and is looking to humans for food.


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## TessaMay (Jul 26, 2013)

In general, I've been taught that if you're faced with a big cat the best thing to do is to try to scare it (so long as it's not cornered). Make yourself as large and loud as possible and whatever you do, do not run from it. Grab a stick and flail your arms, throw rocks at it, etc.. That being said, it can be hard with a horse involved. 

Also, it sounds like this cat may not be your typical wild cat and may be either driven by hunger, not right in the head or just grown too comfortable around humans. A gun would be the best option, even if you only had blanks. It would have to be a bat poop crazy cat to not run from the noise.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Sounds like a scary experience, the worst I am likely to encounter is a rat or dog. I was told by a relative in BC that the reason they are having so many bear/cougar sightings us because the winter was so long that the animals haven't moved up like they normally do? Not sure if this is accurate or not.


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

Conservation said that our deer population is way down....there is no deer. Even hunters last fall around here said they either didn't see any or commented that the numbers are very low. It sucks because last summer I logged about 45 hours of trailing in there.....this year I won't go back in there at all.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

We destroy habitat, kill off the food sources and then wonder why predators are desperately hungry.


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## elbandita (Sep 13, 2013)

I've been told to never turn your back to a big cat because they take advantage of the situation jumping on your back. and if it does Fight Back. do not cower or play dead because it will assume you are and you know what happens next. 

Absolutely take a firearm safety class and be trained to shoot a firearm. I'm not certain about the law in your particular area. Most recreational parks I've been to will let you carry a gun for protection purposes when camping or hiking per the bears and mountain lions. I assume trail riding is equal purpose. 

In a bind you could possibly find a leather sheathed machete and carry that in your bag of tricks just in case the cougar gets too comfortable. Even a large pocket knife could defend you. I always carry my knife lighter and gun when on trails because you just never know. That reminds me it would be a great idea for trailriders to take a survival course. You'd learn all you needed to know about what to do in any given situation the wilderness throws at your feet.


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

We've had a large pack of wolves in our area in the past year or so, which is a first for around here...thinking that might be some of the reason why the deer population is down.


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## littlebird (Jan 22, 2014)

Mochachino said:


> Conservation said that our deer population is way down....there is no deer. Even hunters last fall around here said they either didn't see any or commented that the numbers are very low.


Thanks for the info Mochachino! I was wondering why the cougars were so active on the island this summer!


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

KsKatt said:


> We destroy habitat, kill off the food sources and then wonder why predators are desperately hungry.


Hunting of deer and other herbivores is way down. Most places have an increase unless disease, wolves, cougar, coyote (they wreak havoc on the young) numbers are not kept in check.

Hunting and/or trapping or cougar/mtn lion, coyotes is prohibited in many places, and down where allowed. 

More people are doing recreation in cougar habitat, desensitizing them to people. We are mere "kitty kibbles" and not at the top of the food chain.

Many factors have increased the activity of the big cats.


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## clumsychelsea (Jul 9, 2014)

We have a lot of bears where I live and I'm not really afraid of them at all, but big cats scare the life out of me. At least a bear will come at me face on with no showy stalking... You might not see a big cat until the last minute.

Loud noises seems to be the general consensus for getting rid of them, but I doubt yelling would affect your cougar if he's so desensitized/out of sorts. If possible, carry something artificial that makes a loud bang? Someone suggested firing blanks. I'm sure there are other devices that aren't illegal/difficult to acquire that can have the same affect. I would check with a hunting store in your area and ask what they have to say. That said, your horse would have to be desensitized to the loud noise or you might find yourself on the ground in an even nastier situation.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

A few years back, in Northern BC, a lady was killed by a cougar, it attacked her young son while he was on horseback. Scary stuff.
Reading Eagle - Google News Archive Search


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## HadleyBug (Jul 10, 2014)

1) What should we be carrying to protect ourselves: Bear spray, knives, etc.

I have to bring mace with me, since around here we have bear, mountain lions, bob cats, etc. It may sound ridiculous, but put a fannypack or something to hold the mace on your leg/boot. A knife wouldn't do much since by the time you are stabbing this animal, it is so close to you it can do irreparable damage. You could bring a baton, or a bat just for extra protection.

2) What is the right thing to do when you see a cougar while riding. Thinking of safety of the rider and the horse. Our horses were not going to face it and stand still.

I ride with my father on our trails and in my field. We have come across only bear and the occasional bob cat(they won't hurt much of anything) but when we do come across bear my father always told me eyes ahead. We have had a bear chase us once and this was because of cubs. I called wildlife officers and they came, tranquilized the bear and her cubs and relocated them. We always brought a bat with us, and pepper spray with a wide sprayer. So I'm not much help with the cougar(or mountain lion since they are the same animal), But I would suggest to NEVER put yourself in the danger of getting off your horse. Cougars/Mountain Lions stalk, and they will stalk until they feel it is the right time to attack. Bring your steady old guy, not your young one, if you _must_ go while there is a cougar. And keep calling wildlife officers until they do something about this cougar on a well populated trail! 

What always gets them is when you say "If you don't do something about it, I will!" even if you don't mean it.

Good luck and BE SAFE.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I thought it was unlikely for a cougar to attack a horse/rider, because they appear so large? Hopefully someone more versed in trail riding safety can enlighten me.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I've never come up on a cougar, but we have had bobcats come around our barn. They don't seem too scared of loud noises. The only thing I can think of is carrying a handgun, but you will need to know how to use it and making sure your horse is used to it.
You guys are really lucky. I don't think I could have been so calm.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

You are blowing this out of proportion. 

1st of all cougars are very timid creatures. It will be rare that you will even see them. let alone be attacked by them.

2nd Humans are not their natural food source. So for a cougar to consider attacking you, They would need to be very hungry and just not able to find their normal food.

3rd Cougars are members of the cat family and act much like your typical house hold cat. They are curious and will chase something for the game even if they don't intend on killing/eating. Hence Don't run when confronted by a cat. As mentioned make yourself as large as possible. Noise helps. Be loud, yell, bang large sticks against trees, discharge firearms.

A cat may sneek up behind you to see just what you are, But once you make it feel uncomfortable they will usually flee and continue the patrol of their territory. In some areas where cougars are not hunted, they have become a little more accustomed to people. These cats might be willing to get closer and even challenge a human since they have no fear. This is usually triggered more by some body fleeing them, either because the person turns and runs away or they don't know the cat is there and they move past jogging or on a bike where they appear to be fleeing.

Cougars will kill and eat small dogs. I've had several ladies come around camp areas calling their little fluffy lap dog, claiming it went out to go potty and never returned. Cougar will snatch those small dogs up just like a rabbit. Most 150+ pound cougars can easily kill a 60lbs hound dog, But they run from hounds. I don't know if it's the fear of the pack or just a million years of genetic instinct telling them to fear canines that causes them to run. But they do.

As far as the woman that outran the cougar back to her car. Hog wash. If that cougar wanted to catch her. there is no human alive that can out run cougar. If that cougar has wanted to catch her, It would have been on her in seconds.

Go out and enjoy your normal rides. If it makes you feel better carry some Pepper spray. It works on the eye and nose of cougars as wells as bears. It will also make your eyes tear up and cry if the wind blows it back in your face. A gun or something else to make loud noises will also work well. Don't go out smelling like food. If you just killed a deer and butchered it on the mountain, clean up and get your cloths changed. Don't wear bloody cloths if you are concerned about predators being in the area.

I've spent a LOT of years in the back country of Utah, Idaho and Wyoming and have only seen a couple cougars that we did not find with hounds. They are extremely rare to spot. Consider yourself lucky if you get the chance.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Wasp spray works like pepper spray, shoots farther ,& is cheaper
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

Foxtail Ranch said:


> Wasp spray works like pepper spray, shoots farther ,& is cheaper
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 yes my BO just told me that today. I never knew that.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Painted Horse said:


> You are blowing this out of proportion.
> 
> 1st of all cougars are very timid creatures. It will be rare that you will even see them. let alone be attacked by them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for being the voice of reason! 

I personally would LOVE to see a cougar. You just don't hear about them attacking people unless they are sick. I ride out in the woods ALL THE TIME and have never seen one. They are actually extremely shy animals. 

I would worry a lot more about facing a bear, but even the bears I have encountered have turned tail and run as soon as they see us. 

The one person I know of that got killed by a bear did so while walking her small dog after dark. Not a good thing! The bear was used to coming into her neighborhood to eat trash.

Anyway, if a cougar is really doing all these things Game and Fish needs to take care of it. Period. But I can't imagine a healthy cougar being so bold.

People are a lot more dangerous to people than wildlife.


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

Yes cougars are usually elusive, but this one saw us and had no problems letting it see it, and it was slinking down the trail towards us and then followed us in the bush parallel to the trail. If this is the same cougar that has been stalking and following people and chasing trucks, it is not normal cougar behavior and it is either very young and hungry or something else is wrong with it which is scarey. Conservation had the trails closed a month ago, and since then there have been altercations with what I believe to be the same animal as they have all been relatively close to one another. I wish they could find this one and relocate it or do something before someone really gets hurt. This morning there was no posters or warnings anywhere at the entrance to the trails.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Mochachino said:


> Yes cougars are usually elusive, but this one saw us and had no problems letting it see it, and it was slinking down the trail towards us and then followed us in the bush parallel to the trail. If this is the same cougar that has been stalking and following people and chasing trucks, it is not normal cougar behavior and it is either very young and hungry or something else is wrong with it which is scarey. Conservation had the trails closed a month ago, and since then there have been altercations with what I believe to be the same animal as they have all been relatively close to one another. I wish they could find this one and relocate it or do something before someone really gets hurt. This morning there was no posters or warnings anywhere at the entrance to the trails.


They at least should have warnings posted......along with advice on what to do and who to call if a person should sight it. A wild animal with no fear is a bad thing!


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## littlebird (Jan 22, 2014)

Painted Horse said:


> You are blowing this out of proportion.
> ...
> I've spent a LOT of years in the back country of Utah, Idaho and Wyoming and have only seen a couple cougars that we did not find with hounds. They are extremely rare to spot. Consider yourself lucky if you get the chance.


Normally, I would agree with you, but as Mochachino said, this cougar (or small population of cougars) is different. They are being way too bold. I'm not sure I conveyed how heavily trafficked the galloping goose trail is. Landford, the area where the cougar was shot, is a suburb.

There are always exceptions, like the tsavo man-eaters. I'm not saying the behavior of these cougars is as extreme as the pair of tsavo lions, _far, far from it_. But they have the potential to be a real threat.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

It would be cool though a little nerve wracking to come across one on a trail ride, esp since keeping the horses calm would be difficult.

Coming across one intentionally following you after knowing it had been "going after" people... including chasing a car?? I would of been scared s***less!!

My father is a wildlife enthusiast and tells me about this one he saw. It watched him then turned and bounded effortless up the slope. 20ft leaps and not a twig snapped. Pretty cool image but not so much if it's charging at you..


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## littlebird (Jan 22, 2014)

Here's another article on the cats if anyone is interested Cougar shot, another at large, after woman charged in Langford, B.C. - British Columbia - CBC News


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

Yogiwick said:


> It would be cool though a little nerve wracking to come across one on a trail ride, esp since keeping the horses calm would be difficult.
> 
> Coming across one intentionally following you after knowing it had been "going after" people... including chasing a car?? I would of been scared s***less!!
> 
> My father is a wildlife enthusiast and tells me about this one he saw. It watched him then turned and bounded effortless up the slope. 20ft leaps and not a twig snapped. Pretty cool image but not so much if it's charging at you..


 I was! I was shaking and was dripping with sweat. I didn't even sleep last night and when I finally got to sleep I had a nighmare about a bear!!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah just wondering if you're next? I don't blame you!!

At least if you HAVE to run you could jump on the horse and at least stand a chance... on foot not so much 0.0


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I live in central Arizona. I've never actually seen a big cat here, but have seen tracks. Lots of them. There is one area that I used to ride, but heard of a cat that was out there. A hunter was actually hired and licensed to hunt it down as ranchers put their cattle out there.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the reaction of my horse if I was to encounter a mountain lion or bear on the trail. I carry a gun and feel relatively confident that I could use it in time, knowing that all the practice in the world won't be the same as actually being in danger of a wild animal! A mountain lion could conceivably stalk and sneak up on you, but I would think your horse would know LONG before. I know how my horse startles at deer and elk I can only imagine her reaction to a big cat! Years ago a friend and I were riding in the northern arizona area. We came across a very small stream to cross and had a heck of a time getting our horses to cross it. Very unlike either of them. The rest of our ride was a rodeo in the making for sure. Finally back at the trailers we saw a ranger and commented on the horses behavior. He said that "darn cougar must be back in the area". I honestly think they're around more than we know. But, again, I'm more concerned about handling my horse in that situation.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Last ranch I was on full-time had quite a few cats on it.

I was riding a mare for someone and needed to check boundary fences on the east side. When we were coming back we needed to cross a dry, rocky wash. The mare started to refuse. I scolded her because a) we had crossed it going the other way a few hours earlier with no problem, and b) good grief, the horse trailer and home was on the other side (a couple miles, but really? they usually step it up going that direction). Still, she was balking.

Then I was a female mtn lion peeking at us through the cedar trees. 20' away. Crouched. Tail flicking. 

No other way to get home from there and we were aimed downhill already halfway down the rocky slide. I took my .38 that I mainly carry as a signal gun if I come off and injured. Hooked my left arm around the saddle horn. Tight. Let off one shot in the general direction of the cat. 

This had the desired effect. The cat ran and the horse bolted through and up out of the wash toward home.

I had a magnificent bruise on the inside of my left arm and elbow.

Had the horse been used to being shot off of, the cat, at least, still would have run. If I had come off when she bolted, the cat still wouldn't have been around nor have returned for quite a while.

At the house on that place, one of my daughters called me to the backyard to have me watch how fast she could run. You know kids.  I was standing at the back door watch her and smiling. Then I noticed the mtn lion flattened out behind some sagebrush up the hill from her. 

I had taught my children that if I say "To the house!" or "To the car!" they were to do it and I'd explain later.

I yelled/bellowed "To the house!" grabbed a baseball bat that the kids had next to the door and ran toward the cat. Jumping, waving my arms, and screaming like a banshee (I guess).

Cat stopped looking at my daughter, looked towards me, and flattened out even more. I kept running and looking as crazy, vicious as I could. Cat turned, while flat on the ground, and took off.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Another time, I came home late from county fair. All the kids were staying in town with family friends close to the fair.

The only light for miles was my little porch light. My dog, a Lab/Pitt mix, walked from the car to the house when he started barking and ran off the porch into the dark. 

Then I hear a surprised "yelp" and he comes running back to me and goes behind my legs, looking toward the dark and growling. I make a comment and looked at him.

He had three marks on his hind quarters. You know, like when you draw your fingers across your horses hip and the horse is dusty? Yeah, he had gotten close enough to a mtn lion to get those.

The cat walked just along the edge of the light. Bold. Standing upright. Looking at us and twitching his tail.

Neighbor had a draft filly put through his corral fencing and a big chunk clawed out of her hindquarters later that week. He had to put her down.

A nearby rancher had a mare corralled at his house and woke to commotion. The mare had her ribs clawed up and one broken. He had to put her down.

Cats are just doing what they do when they take one of our animals and even us out. But that doesn't mean I have to be passive about it.


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

Boots, I think I read about some of those events. They were a few years ago weren't they? Scary. You're right. There's no telling exactly what a wild creature is going to do. With our drought conditions, wild fires, civilization encroachment its no wonder.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

We were elk hunting one year and camo'd up and scent free. I was hiding on the edge of large clearing and watch for elk to come in just before dark. I spotted a cougar slinking along the edge of the tree line as it made it's way around the edge of the meadow. The wind was in my face,so I knew he couldn't smell me, but I could see he was circling around and would eventually come up behind me. The friend with me kept and eye behind us as I continued to watch for elk. About a half hour later he nudged me and whispered that the cougar had appeared about 15 yards behind and sitting there cocking its head and right and left trying to figure out what was hiding in the brush in front of him. My friend got spooked and wanted to know what to do. I told him, if he was worried about it, To jump up and scare the cat off. Which is what he did. He jumped up screaming and flailing his arms and running towards the cougar, Which immediately ran off.


Another year up elk hunting, It snowed hard all night and the new snow was 2 foot deep. I got up early and made my way to the ridge top. It was cold and nasty and nothing was moving, so I decided to head back to camp for breakfast. As I followed my tracks back down off the ridge, I discovered that a cougar had followed my tracks up the hill. You could see where his tail had switched right and left in the snow as it checked me out. I never knew it was there and never would have if I had not retraced my own tracks. But even on a cold nasty morning, that cat decided I was too big a risk to try and hunt. I'm sure it was more curiosity for what is these new creature in my territory.

We were chasing cougars with dogs one day, The cougar went into a cave in a cliff face and the dogs of course followed it in. We could hear them in the cave and didn't want to be sewing up dogs all night from a fight with a cornered cat,So we went in to get our dogs.. As I was creeping into the cave. The cougar broke and came running out. I flattened against the wall and the cougar flew by and was immediately followed by 6 dogs in hot pursuit. That cat brushed against my knees on his way by, but he had no interest in me and just wanted out of there.

Point is, They are out there and I would be surprised if they didn't check you out. They are natural hunters and it's their personality to observe everything around them and decide what is an easy prey and what is a dangerous prey.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

First of all, I will say upfront that I know nothing about this. Yes, there is a lot of wilderness around us that we ride in, but I've never seen a big cat. I'd just like to comment that speaking from my basic lack of knowledge, I would never voluntarily get off my horse in a situation like that. My horse can run a lot faster than I can.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

Painted Horse said:


> We were elk hunting one year and camo'd up and scent free. I was hiding on the edge of large clearing and watch for elk to come in just before dark. I spotted a cougar slinking along the edge of the tree line as it made it's way around the edge of the meadow. The wind was in my face,so I knew he couldn't smell me, but I could see he was circling around and would eventually come up behind me. The friend with me kept and eye behind us as I continued to watch for elk. About a half hour later he nudged me and whispered that the cougar had appeared about 15 yards behind and sitting there cocking its head and right and left trying to figure out what was hiding in the brush in front of him. My friend got spooked and wanted to know what to do. I told him, if he was worried about it, To jump up and scare the cat off. Which is what he did. He jumped up screaming and flailing his arms and running towards the cougar, Which immediately ran off.
> 
> 
> Another year up elk hunting, It snowed hard all night and the new snow was 2 foot deep. I got up early and made my way to the ridge top. It was cold and nasty and nothing was moving, so I decided to head back to camp for breakfast. As I followed my tracks back down off the ridge, I discovered that a cougar had followed my tracks up the hill. You could see where his tail had switched right and left in the snow as it checked me out. I never knew it was there and never would have if I had not retraced my own tracks. But even on a cold nasty morning, that cat decided I was too big a risk to try and hunt. *I'm sure it was more curiosity for what is these new creature in my territory.*


Not uncommon at all. 

We've had a sizable cougar follow us for quite awhile while mountain biking. It'd pop up now and check us out and then disappear. It wasn't stalking us because he/she was in no way worried about concealment. They also seem to be attracted by the blinking tail lights road cyclists use, as I've seen them following a bike three different times.

I open carry a .357 but have never even come close to having to use it. The biggest oh crap moments we have here are when sage grouse flush right under us.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Mochachino said:


> Unfortunately in Canada I can't just carry a gun around anywhere with me.


Actually, you can. A rifle or a shotgun is perfectly legal if you are licensed, a round is not chambered, and it is not concealed. You can carry it to the grocery store if you want to provided that there are not any local municipal laws against it. National law says you can carry it anywhere. If the trails are in a provincial park, there may be provincial laws to check.




> I think the best idea is to just not go back in there.


I agree. A cougar that lets you see it like that is trouble. Until it is caught/killed, I'd avoid the area. Problem is, cougars have a fairly large territory, up to 30 square km from what I have read. So, you have to avoid that big of an area.

Someone else posted they thought a cougar wouldn't attack a horse. Not true. Like most animals, they will kill and feed on easier prey first, but cougars will attack larger animals and there are plenty of reportings of this. Usually they will attack from above, waiting on a rock/cliff/branch near a known trail. Makes it doubly weird that this cat was on the ground.

Here is a write up about cougars and horseback riding: Encountering Cougars – America’s Horse Daily


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

STT GUY said:


> The biggest oh crap moments we have here are when sage grouse flush right under us.


:thumbsup: Yup! Now those can be a heart stopper! :lol:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Love these good stories!

Had "something" (cat, maybe bobcat, but even more the point) attack a sick elderly horse up in the center of town (small town but the center is populated). Don't know if the horse made it. I wouldn't leave and old sick horse outside overnight. Our guys are always shut up by the barn at least.

Unlikely to bother, sure. Won't bother? Don't count on it! Better safe than sorry..

Agree the OPs cougar was not quite right..


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## Sony (May 10, 2014)

How scary. I might have had a heart attack. I'd absolutely carry a gun!


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

*Gun*

When we go out trail riding, we always make sure we have a few things with us for safety. My husband works in law enforcement, so we have a few guns at home. A gun, knife for cutting in case of emergent situations, and pepper spray is what we have on hand. 

Canadian rockies are full of scary human eating animals which when caught off guard might become aggressive. Unfortunately safety measures are things we need to think about.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Wow...Painted Horse - just wow. 

I live in southeast Texas near the coast. I live across a highway from a refinery that is directly on the river. My son was at the refinery and in a control room and he saw a black panther hop up on one of the pipes. He said had he not seen it with his own eyes he wouldn't have believed it. He said it was NOT a house cat but a panther. :shock:

As for them attacking horses - yes they will in a heart beat. 2 years ago a lady I know had her stallion attacked and killed by 2 cats. He was in a pen, early in the morning - most likely he was on the ground asleep when attacked. He was a very sweet, well behaved QH that was the size of a tank. We were all shocked when Rimfire was killed. But, cats are looking for food. Rimfire just looked like food. She was devastated at his loss of course. 

We ride in the woods all the time and camp out. Never have seen a cat - all kinds of other animals though.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Thanks everyone....... now I really feel the need to learn how to use a gun, and get licensed to carry. Scary! :shock:


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

Thought I's share this article;
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/humans-created-top-predator-taken-212420235.html


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

That's interesting Katt. Someone around here a few years ago was breeding large domestic dogs with local wild coyotes. The result was scary. Very smart pack hunters, larger, and almost no fear of humans. I think they were mostly all hunted down, but not sure if they ever found out who was doing it. 

We really need to stop messing with nature.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Just to keep things in perspective, though:

Number of people killed this century:

Coyotes: 1 Coyote attacks on humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mountain lions: 3 List of fatal cougar attacks in North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rattlesnakes: 14 List of fatal snake bites in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bears: 37 List of fatal bear attacks in North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bees, wasps, &c: about 600 Deadly Bee Stings, Severe Allergic Reactions - ABC News
Police officers: >6000, accurate figures not available Nobody Knows How Many Americans The Police Kill Each Year | FiveThirtyEight

And of course, driving to/from the trailhead is still far & away the biggest danger, with 30-40 thousand deaths per year.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I recently put a bear bell on my lead mare. We just moved to a new property and the pasture is 25 plus acres, about 5 of which are wooded. I thought the bell would help me if i were trying to find them. But I also wonder if it is a help for horses with bear or cougar. We have a lot of both in our area.


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

Bear bells just alert bears to your presence. You are dependent on the bears being afraid of human contact, and wanting to leave an area before you enter that space. Basically you don't want to sneak up and surprise a bear.

Once the predators become accustomed to hearing the bells. It no longer acts as a warning. Something / Someone needs to keep reinforcing the threat to the bears each time they hear the bells. Letting a horse or goat wear the bells full time with no threat soon. becomes like Pavlov's Dogs where the bell becomes a dinner bell.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Painted Horse said:


> Bear bells just alert bears to your presence. You are dependent on the bears being afraid of human contact, and wanting to leave an area before you enter that space. Basically you don't want to sneak up and surprise a bear.
> 
> Once the predators become accustomed to hearing the bells. It no longer acts as a warning. Something / Someone needs to keep reinforcing the threat to the bears each time they hear the bells. Letting a horse or goat wear the bells full time with no threat soon. becomes like Pavlov's Dogs where the bell becomes a dinner bell.


Creepy, but I think true.


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## Bojotyco (Feb 6, 2013)

I ride in the Three Sisters Wilderness Area in Oregon. Although I have never come face to face with a cougar, I know they are out there! 
One time while coming back down the trail, there were tracks in the hoof prints my horse had made not 10 minutes before. 
Another time there were tracks of a cat and cub circling around my horse trailer at the trailhead. 
One night I heard one scream above our camp. That will raise the hair up on your head!!
I carry a small aluminum pan and a wooden spoon in one of my easily accessible packs. Pounding on the pan will scare about anything! Just be sure your horse can take the noise. I also carry a Smith & Wesson 22 Magnum for added safety. 

Used to carry bear spray-lost it twice-decided it might be more hazard than help, i.e. blowback, spray self, horse and so on. Knife idea only good for cutting ropes in an emergency, not fighting off a wild animal.


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## RegularJoe (Aug 26, 2014)

jamesqf said:


> Just to keep things in perspective...
> And of course, driving to/from the trailhead is still far & away the biggest danger, with 30-40 thousand deaths per year.


All too true. If everyone was completely oblivious to the dangers of animals in the wild and twice as careful driving from home to the trailhead, more of us would be alive to discuss the dangers of bears and big cats. 

Complacency kills more of us than everything living in the woods combined.


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## sunnyone (Sep 4, 2014)

Interesting subject - we have active cougar activity on our property and neighbor property right now. Keep in mind - cougars and wolves will track and follow you. Sudden movements - like kids tend to have will make cougars more likely to attack - like a kitty playing with a live mouse.

No sudden movements if you find yourself off your horse, like others said, make yourself bigger, don't move, and stare them in the eye. Even if hungry, cougars are careful about not getting hurt. If it is far away, slowly move back toward home or cover, and find a big stick or rocks. Since I know cougar are around here, and we are in the US, I would be carrying a gun.

If a cougar is close and looks ready to strike (kind of like a kitty ready to pounce), make a ton of noise (you will be living on adrenaline at that point anyway), and fight like heck - aim for the eyes or nose, hitting it with whatever you can find. Never turn your back.

Cougars are sprinters, not necessarily long distance runners - that is why deer can get away, but I sure wouldn't recommend running away from one.

I don't know if there is necessarily anything you did wrong in the moment but I personally would never get off my horse - just turn around and keep moving home. A couple friends had a similar encounter when a baby cougar crossed the trail, and then saw mama was watching from a hill above - they turned around, and mama followed them all the way back to the main road. From what I understand, their horses were nuts too.

I know people around here who use cougar "fur" to work on desensitizing their horses at home. I can't recommend where you would find that but maybe a taxidermist or hunting club.


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## RegularJoe (Aug 26, 2014)

sunnyone said:


> I know people around here who use cougar "fur" to work on desensitizing their horses at home.


I'm asking this as someone who knows less about cougars than he does about horses, but is that actually a good idea? Horses have good cause to be afraid of cougars. 

Your horse would, I imagine, be aware of a cougar before you are. I get that you don't want the horse to spook, but is teaching it to ignore that threat wise? It seems like you're disabling an early warning system, kind of like turning off a smoke alarm.


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## sunnyone (Sep 4, 2014)

RegularJoe said:


> I'm asking this as someone who knows less about cougars than he does about horses, but is that actually a good idea? Horses have good cause to be afraid of cougars.
> 
> Your horse would, I imagine, be aware of a cougar before you are. I get that you don't want the horse to spook, but is teaching it to ignore that threat wise? It seems like you're disabling an early warning system, kind of like turning off a smoke alarm.


Interesting question as I have not personally done it. I don't believe one can condition a horse to ignore a natural danger and they would always let you know. I think this technique is maybe to get them accustomed to the scent and remain manageable.


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## Bojotyco (Feb 6, 2013)

Hi regular Joe,
My input; You can NEVER teach a horse to ignore a cougar, but desensitizing it is not a bad idea. Of course, I am not sure how one would go that, but by desensitizing I mean; teaching it to trust you and not go crazy and throw you off if a cougar or other wild animal is nearby. 
Kind of tough to desensitize a horse to something it may never see. 

As for the cougar fur idea, that is a new one on me, maybe someone can enlighten me.


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## RegularJoe (Aug 26, 2014)

Bojotyco said:


> ...by desensitizing I mean; teaching it to trust you and not go crazy and throw you off if a cougar or other wild animal is nearby.





sunnyone said:


> I think this technique is maybe to get them accustomed to the scent and remain manageable.


Makes sense now. Thanks to both of you. 

And clearly, I have much to learn.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

I remember a time I saw a snake stretched out across the path ahead of us. We were cantering and just didn't have time to react, at least this human didn't. I just knew my mare was going to see the snake and blow up, she just stepped right over it.
I know nothing like cougars, but the memory popped up.:wink:


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

sunnyone said:


> I don't believe one can condition a horse to ignore a natural danger...


Why then are most horses perfectly fine with dogs, even (or especially) big dogs that look rather like their wolf ancestors? Or indeed, with humans?


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

I'm not so sure that letting a horse smell a cougar makes much difference. Unless they have been attacked by a cougar, They don't know that smell is associated with danger, until they've been attacked.

I've spent a lot of time on the mountain, Hunting fishing and just trail riding. My horses have carried deer and elk off the mountain. They have smelled blood, wild game. We have rode up on cougar/bear kills and seen the blood spread all over from the death struggle and I gotta believe the smell of the predator is in the air. I've seen coyotes and wolves nearby and watched them run off, we've crossed fresh bear scat on the trail. None of that seemed to bother them if they saw it and were not surprised by it.

I believe the horses are more worried by the behavior of a predator than the smell. Unless of course they have learned to be leery of that smell by past experience. 

A playful dog is ignored by my horses, A herding dog that wants to bite their heels gets their attention really quick. The difference is the behavior of the dog. I think the same is true of most the predators. My horses ignore the smell, but add some sulking in the bushes or trying to circle behind and they become very alert.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

Big Stuff never minded dogs. They were just interesting parts of the landscape. Until we met three Dobermans running loose in the woods who decided to chase and attack him. They came out of the woods instead of behind us up the trail. It wasn't the fact that they were dogs, it was as Painted Horse points out, their behavior. 

Their owner came fairly quickly after them down the trail. He waded into the dogs and got control of two of them but by that time, the third had been kicked in the head. I don't really know what happened to the dog. The owner got a hard lesson. As soon as the dogs stopped, Big settled down, but there was a lot of snorting and stamping. The guy wasn't happy, but then that made 2 of us. :-(


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I'm sorry that happened to you _and_ that dog, but I wish that more pet owners would realize they have a responsibility to either teach their dogs about livestock or maintain control of them at all times. I don't know about there, but here if he had decided to call the sheriff and complain about his dog being kicked, he would have been fined heavily and the remaining 2 dogs would have been quarantined. Glad you and Big are ok though.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I have trained 15 horses to gunfire, which was for black powder. Yes, it translates but, I've been to National CW events and I've seen how a horse scared of a gun will freak, buck, spin and bolt. *Before you carry a gun, you had better totally desensitize your horse to it.* When the are not afraid you can level a pistol above their heads, no problem. 
You have a dangerous situation on your hands. I'm very glad you lived to talk about this.
I don't see where you are from, but I'm betting it's either Florida or California, Oregon or Washington bc that's where nobody lets you shoot cougars, and where cougars have attacked joggers and nobody hunts them down afterwards.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

Blue, there was no question of him complaining. He should have had his dogs leashed or under vocal control and the laws here are similar to yours. 3 dogs vs 1 horse and rider on public land equals 1 guilty dog owner. It was never an issue. 
He was not happy, but he at least apologized for his dogs and realized that Big was only defending himself. The only one who got hurt was his dog. I don't know if he survived or not. I just accepted his apology and got out of there. Big and I were very happy to leave. I figured he'd learned a lesson the hard way. AFTER I got back, I got the shakes. My husband Jim caught up with me partway back and was ready to go back and confront the dog owner....but what good would that have done? If he didn't learn from this, then he would never learn.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Corporal, can you elaborate on how to train for gun fire? How do I start?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Painted Horse (Dec 29, 2006)

I have somebody walk off 10-15 yards and shot away from the horse while I control the horse. Once the horse is comfortable with gun fire a little ways off. Move closer and closer until I'm shooting off their back.

They learn quick and the 1st couple of times it's more of a startle reflex. Not knowing what the sudden noise was.


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## Bojotyco (Feb 6, 2013)

Interesting side note; the newspaper just reported today that there are 5000 cougars in Oregon! 
A cougar was sited near the center of town on one of the main streets. Can't get much closer than that!


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## Bojotyco (Feb 6, 2013)

Btw Corporal, it is cougar season in Oregon right now...


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

gunslinger said:


> Corporal, can you elaborate on how to train for gun fire? How do I start?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We just took them to small CW events. Our herd leader, Tyke (TWH/QH cross, (1970-1998, RIP), was a 16yo at his first event. He had been there done everything, including pony at the race track, so crowds, etc. didn't bother him. He was afraid of gunfire at his first event on Saturday, then loved the hobby after that. Once Tyke was broken in, the rest of his herd followed his lead and didn't have a probelm with it. THIS is how the US Cavalry broke their horses into everything, teaming a seasoned veteran with a green horse. It shows their intelligence and that horses pay attention.
Two of my horses, my mare and my tall KMH gelding are used to gunfire. We got to the point where we started shooting off of our gelding's back, and we bought the mare, a seasoned veteran, at the 2008 (145th Gettysburg) from her owner. I still need to train my QH gelding to it. 
*To ANSWER YOUR QUESTION* (bold, so you can skip), I would start by graining your horse every day, tied up to the fence. Start with a cap gun and begin firing by walking away from your horse while he is eating. Fire at least 5x, and don't be worried to fire more than that. Ignore his reaction, at first, so he will know that there isn't anything to fear. Since we trained our horses to do close order drill, they learned quickly, that, "Ready, Aim, Fire" alerted them to the company, brigade, regiment would fire in sync. I would suggest that you use that or some words to alert your horse that this is coming.
_Use a cap gun every day for a week. _ After the first day, don't walk as far, then walk away about 5 feet and stand, then shoot and face your horse, then work with the cap gun in your training area. Get him totally unfazed by it, then switch to a REAL GUN and repeat. 
REAL BULLET TRAINING
Shoot into the ground AWAY from your horse with a real bullet, and be careful. Even with black powder (w/Cream of Wheat instead of wadding), we always shot away from the horse, but we could shoot down to the side, between their ears, and straight behind over their tail and they didn't care. 
MY horses knew when we were firing black powder and when it was a real weapon. They didn't panic, but they could tell the difference (at home, shooting varmints.) They weren't afraid but used it as an excuse to run and play.
I wish that I could recommend going to a small CW event and breaking your horse in there, but I stopped doing the hobby bc the numbers are way down and people are really sloppy with their horse training at the small events. (That's why, 1987, we quit most small events, and joined The Cumberland Guard, out of Indianapolis, bc they took safety seriously.) In 2011, I was getting my KMH gelding used to gunfire at a local small event, while, at the same time, there was a Cavalry Unit that was particularly dangerous. 3 of their horses who were never completely broken in to gunfire and crowds and never got ridden except at an event, would always act up, and there was this one woman who was always buying and bringing cheap, green abused horses, and two years in a row she left the event in an ambulance. I understand that this is normal for her. =/
Your horse watches ALL the other horses at any show. If they are green to anything, they see how the other horses respond, and follow suit.
Tyke was such a bully and a powerful leader, that the others in his herd always watched him as to how to react to anything. He made it easy to break the rest in. If you have a friend with a horse who is REALLY not afraid of guns, that's where I would start.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Bojotyco said:


> Interesting side note; the newspaper just reported today that there are 5000 cougars in Oregon!
> A cougar was sited near the center of town on one of the main streets. Can't get much closer than that!


Oh? Hereabouts, they've been known to come into town to visit the casinos:Mountain Lion Cornered in Downtown Reno Which, frankly, is more than I ever do


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## RegularJoe (Aug 26, 2014)

jamesqf said:


> Oh? Hereabouts, they've been known to come into town to visit the casinos:Mountain Lion Cornered in Downtown Reno Which, frankly, is more than I ever do


Now that would be a highly effective way to reduce compulsive gambling.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

RegularJoe said:


> Now that would be a highly effective way to reduce compulsive gambling.


Yeah, shoot you with tranquilizer guns before you can even get in the door  

Considering some of the people they let in encourage* to come to town and spend money, I think I'd prefer to have a nice quiet mountain lion sitting at the table next to me. So what if he can only bet a rabbit or two? Not all of us can be high rollers, you know 

*E.g. Hells Angels Leader Jeffrey Jethro Pettigrew Dead and Two Injured in Shooting - ABC News


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