# If a person agrees to contact me in case of a sale and doesn't, do I have any rights?



## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

I make it an effort every year to rescue, rehabilitate, retrain, and rehome a horse, at least one. 

Last June, I bought an OTTB, I named Moose, fattened him up, got him over rain rot, and rode him some. When it came time for my family to move to Montana, knowing it would be too cold for him there, my dad agreed to let me continue to keep him on his pasture. 

Within the first month of moving, I called my dad to see how things were getting along, and to make sure he didn't need anything for Moose, hay, wormer, etc. My dad says, "Oh, my buddy come pick him up."

"What?"

"Zimmerman's got him. He'll be fine over there, said his little girl needed a TB to run speed events on."

"So he's buying him?"

"No, I said he could have him if he would come get him."

"Do you have any idea what you're doing?!?!?! >>>>>>>>"

Then, I called Mr. Z. I made sure he clearly understood that Moose was a rescue, and that if there was every ANY problem, to contact me, and I would make other arrangements to pick him up. He agreed. He agreed to contact me if there was any reason he didn't want him, any reason he was looking to sell him, any reason he didn't want anything to do with him any more.

So what the heck happens? My sister, (Mr. Z's daughter and my sister are best friends) calls me up to tell me Mr. Z sold Moose? So now I'm livid, wondering what the HELL I can do to get him back? How in the world is someone gonna take a horse for FREE, from someone who didn't even OWN the horse in the first place, then SELL it, and KEEP THE MONEY?! How the HALE does this happen? 

Any idea what I can do to get him back? Now that we're back in Kansas I've got the facilities myself to keep him and he won't be freezing in the winter in Montana! 

Help!!!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

This is going to be a bit of a fuzzy situation because even when you have rights in these messes it is often a whole other story actually having those rights enforced.
Did you have a bill of sale giving YOU ownership of Moose when you purchased him?
Did you, at any time, transfer that ownership - if you had it - to your father, or in any way give him legal authority to act as your agent in regards to the horse?
The agreement between you and Mr. Z is, at best, a rather shaky verbal agreement - which, by making, you were actually implying consent to him having the horse (voiding the issue of whether your father had the right to transfer the horse in the first place).


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm sorry dear, but I think you're out of luck.

Since you don't have any paper trail, and the only contact you had with Mr. Z was verbal, it's a he said-she said type of situation.

The courts will argue that you agreed to give the horse to Mr. Z, since you didn't make any fuss about the animal being with him.

For future reference, get _all_ agreements in writing, and all communications should be in written form, be they e-mail or regular written correspondence.

It won't help you in this situation, but it should keep something like this from happening again.

FWIW, I'd be livid too.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> *FWIW, I'd be livid too*.


Most definitely!


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

I have a bill of sale from when I bought him, as well as a verbal promise to registration through JC from the previous owner. I did not transfer ownership from myself, ever. 

I was under the impression that my dad was having Mr. Z care for Moose as long as he could use him, but that I would get him back if ever they decided not to keep him. 

THAT was the agreement. The agreement wasn't, "Oh, yeah, you can have him." 

And all this over a short period of about 3 months, he still should have let me know he was selling him, right? I mean, morally?

So here's my thing, I really want to call Mr. Z, find out WHERE Moose is, to be sure he doesn't end up back at auction, and request that Mr. Z forward the money to me, due to the agreement he made. BECAUSE I turned all my expenses for him in on my taxes this year!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Of course you're right, morally _and_ ethically. 

What Mr. Z did was_ completely_ wrong and he owes you an explanation, if not recompense.

I'd be tempted to go off on the old assclown, but that's just me. :evil:

I don't recommend that approach if you want to find out what happened to the horse, though.

Good luck. I hope if nothing else, you can get peace of mind.


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

Thank you, SR. Thank you TMP!

I just didn't know where else to turn! I know he's just a piece of junk, nothing but $200 horse. But he's MY piece of junk, nothing but $200 horse!

And he'll get a call, I'll know who the newest owner is, then I'll for sure give him a piece of my mind.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Does Kansas have a brand inspection law? If it does and they did not get a brand inspection then you still own the horse and you can track it down and take it from whoever has it and they can go after Mr. Z (as can law enforcement) for what they paid. However, If you don't want to make waves with your dad or his buddy then make it clear that you expect the money from the horse and let it go at that. For what it's worth you should have taken him to Montana. They raise alot of TB's there and alot of them stay outside all winter.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Sounds like Mr Z sold stolen property. Your dad doesn't sound like much of a winner to do something like that without your permssion. I would threaten him with selling stolen property and if I had time I would persue small claims court if you could at least get your sister to testify on your behalf.


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## MissH (Apr 10, 2010)

West - let us know if/when you end up calling the infamous Mr. Z. I want to know what happens here. This is a super crappy situation.

As for your Dad, why would he just ship your horse off to his buddies place? Any ideas? And if Mr. Z was "his buddy", would he not feel terrible for what has happened? (I ask these questions only out of curiosity, I mean no disrespect whatsoever)


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

So my dad surprised us by coming out last night. (2 hr drive from home now) I told him I was really upset about Mr. Z selling Moose. He said, "Oh, I know. The people who bought him wanted to bring him back because he was bucking and kicking and rearing up and running off with them."

I said, "What the hell did they do to him?"

He says, "I don't know, but they had 3 trainers out to work with him and he wasn't working out I guess."

I said, "That's rediculous, there was absolutely NOTHING wrong with that horse outside of that stupid fungus when I left! He rode around just fine!"

"Well, Mr Z said he was dangerous, so they sold him to this guy who was supposed to keep him as a pasture ornament, but supposedly put a little kid loose on him and he darted."

I just don't understand. This just chaps my hide so bad. 

Kevin, I don't know if we have the brand inspection law, which would be good to find out. I'm looking that up as I type. Apparently it's not mandatory... here's the page I found for it...
Kansas Animal Health Department

Ugh. I don't know what to do. I have the facilities, but Chris doesn't necessarily want him back, because it would cost us $500 income a month to keep him. If I could somehow work out other arrangements for board somewhere close for fairly cheap, I would. I know that if Chris could put 30 rides on him we'd be able to find him a nice home ourselves. I don't know what to do. I have never rehomed a rescue that I can't follow up on, even still.

I will certainly let everyone know how this conversation goes. There will be one, it'll be face to face, the first weekend of June when we get back home ourselves. Until then, I'll be thinking of things to say. Any other ideas pop into your head, let me know!


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

Sorry for the double post. I just explained to my dad that I thought this was all just like a free lease, like they'd feed him as long as they were using him, and bring him back when they were done. He said, "I did too, that's what he told me, that's the only reason I even told him he could use him, cause I knew you'd get him back whenever you asked, or they'd want to buy him from you and you could have the money out of him. I didn't expect this to happen either."

Goes to show, no matter what you do, get it in writing, no matter how small, how petty, or how good of friends.

Oh, Kevin, it was already snowing and in the teens by the first of October when we would have got him there, and he was really underweight. I didn't want to risk him getting sick or freezing.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

sounds like you need to take Mr. Z to small claims court. I think you can sue for up to $5000 and I would sue for every bit of that.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I agree--small claims seems like the best option


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