# How easy it is to switch from English to Western and back?



## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

I just posted about the length of lessons in my daughter's barn (30 min) which is a issue for me primarily because it takes us over an hour to get to the barn. I'd like a better ratio of driving to riding. :lol:

I'm investigating a barn which is only a 30 minutes drive. It is a Western barn, and she currently rides English. For a year before she started her English lessons she took intermittent lessons in a Western saddle, but not "true" Western. 

My daughter would like to ride both, but I can't afford concurrent lessons in both. 

She is also very interested in horsemanship in general, horse training, natural horsemanship, horse care and nutrition, and so on. Her ultimate goal is to ride bareback / bitless, rather than to compete in any particular discipline. She does like jumping. But she's more interested in a solid seat and developing her balance so that she could ride confidently, regardless of discipline. 

Assuming we like the Western barn, and the instructor there, would it be problematic to switch to that barn, if later she'd want to go back to English and to jumping?

Assuming quality of instruction is the same, will Western riding lead to getting a good foundation, with her goals in mind? 

Am I right to assume that since she's changing the discipline, there shouldn't be "barn competition" and she should be able to go back to her English barn without causing any hurt feelings? 

Ideally (and this is my selfish bias) I'd like her to take Western in the winter, as the driving there is much easier, and English in the summers (if her current barn would have the space in the spring). 

Anyway, this all will depend whether we will actually like the Western barn and the instructor, but I thought I'd ask in advance so I can think it over yet one more time. 

Thanks!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Switching to western will show her exactly where she is with balance and independent seat, that's for sure. 
She will have a hard time at the beginning, getting the different aids sorted out.
But IMHO, it will make her a better English rider if she wants to go back to it. 

When I switched,I was very lucky having an instructor coming from English. She could explain so much better;-)


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I ride and compete in both reining and eventing. It's fantastic for your balance and contributes enormously to being a well-rounded rider. I think it would be a great experience for her to spend some time in Western lessons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Well I agree with DesertHorseWoman ^, however I've seen some horses get warped from the constant change in discipline. I've seen two sisters sharing a reining horse, one rides it English over jumps and the other reins it......it's a gong show. One day the horse is schooled on a draped rein, the next day it's in full contact....they have tremendous issues riding this horse.....and I'm sure the horse has tremendous issues trying to figure out what the heck they want!!! 

So sometimes it's better to ride the horse for what it's trained for in regards to lessons, switching all the time from one to the other could be problemstic unless the horse is super well schooled in both......


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Muppet, I don't think her daughter owns a horse, so stressing out a horse wouldn't be a problem. If she's using lesson horses I think I would be a great opportunity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

equiniphile said:


> Muppet, I don't think her daughter owns a horse, so stressing out a horse wouldn't be a problem. If she's using lesson horses I think I would be a great opportunity.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, ok, my mistake! I almost freaked when I saw the girl jumping the Reiner, haha because he's better than my horse! Haha what a waste! LOL!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Subbing
This is interesting as I'm thinking of taking western lessons this winter and trying it out with my little Irish Draft who has a backside like a quarter horse and likes to ride on a loose rein


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## Stillstandin (Nov 10, 2009)

As a kid I started western then took english lessons. Now in my 40s I still do both. I am thankful my parents encouraged us to try as many disciplines as we could. I currently compete in Team Penning and Sorting, my niece does show jumping but spent summer on a working cattle ranch and is now at a thoroyghbred breeding farm, my oldest brother, former pro saddle bronc rider is competing in show jumping as well. I think for all of us, by training in different disciplines we have really developed our skills as riders. And we do switch our horses back and forth between different disciplines but only compete in the disciplines they really excel at.
I say go for it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"She does like jumping. But she's more interested in a solid seat and developing her balance so that she could ride confidently, regardless of discipline."

In terms of seat, there are basically two - forward and traditional. Forward is used in jumping and speed events. Traditional is used in others. A dressage seat and a western seat have more in common than either does with a forward seat. 

In terms of reins, english riding is normally done with contact - the rider has enough tension on the reins to feel the horse's mouth. Most western riding is done with slack in the reins, although the weight of the reins amplified by a leveraged bit can be considered a type of contact. 

Some horses do great bitless, and that is true with both English and Western. Other horses do not. My mare would be dangerous to ride in the desert bitless. She would panic, and then she would be darn near unstoppable. My gelding, OTOH, could be ridden bitless without a problem. That is a horse personality & training issue, not a rider issue.

Western to English or English to Western doesn't seem like a big deal to me. A rider who assumes they know it all because they know one style sets themselves up to look dumb. Both are challenging enough to keep a person busy learning for a life time! But you can also ride both and interchange them without that much difficulty.

I've been riding for 4 years now. Started at 50. I started English, drifted to Australian saddles, then to western, and then back to Australian style saddles. I mostly use a forward seat because a back injury hurts my back's flexibility, and good western or dressage riding requires more flexibility from the back than a forward seat. 

On the whole, I prefer most western riding. In an arena, most speed events are western. Out of an arena, I like the more casual approach I find with most western riders - although that may not be true everywhere. I also like the way western riding encourages the horse to think for itself.

If your daughter wants to jump, you need to know that jumping greatly increases the risk of head injuries, by 10-40 fold (1,000-4,000 percent)! That doesn't mean folks shouldn't jump, but it DOES mean that it is good to get a very good seat on the flats before taking up jumping. And if she does start jumping, make sure she gets good, specific instruction to reduce her risk.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/helmets-injuries-some-studies-long-81416/

I took western lessons a while back. I was lucky enough to get an instructor who A) had group lessons where the hour often turned into 2, and B) emphasized all of her training towards how our riding affects the horse's balance and willingness. That was useful regardless of what style you prefer.

Best wishes for you and your daughter whatever you decide!


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

Thank you, everyone, for your replies! I'm so glad that it is not a terrible idea, but in fact, a good idea, to switch to Western, and then take it from there and see where it leads her. It seems that switching to Western is congruent with her general goals. 

Now, I hope the Western BA replies to my email and that we like the barn--after some bad barn experiences last year I'm gaining knowledge and becoming more picky. Since my daughter likes her current trainer and the barn, we will only switch if the Western barn is quite exceptional. But I'm excited about this, as yay, only 30 minutes drive!


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

I took my former hunter/jumper pro thoroughbred from a wound up lesson horse to an easy going western trail horse. At the time it never occurred to me how silly we might have looked, and I had a lot of fun jumping him over some low fence posts I laid out, still in my western saddle. Everything about them said sturdy and secure.

When we got my barrel horse, well, we didn't have a saddle that fit him well after buying a few. So I rode him bareback in a halter, and that's how I learned to really ride. He had the ugliest, rocks in a blender trot so we either walked or cantered, and when I got a little confidence, a full out gallop just hanging onto the little scrap of a mane he had.

I've only ridden English once, on a lovely Arabian, and I don't know how English riders do it. I felt more lopsided and out of control than I ever did bareback, like there wasn't enough material for me to balance on, but too much for me to feel the horse. Hated every second of it and never rode English again. But I can definitely say there's something to be learned, no matter what way you're on a horses back, as long as you're up there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

Nightside said:


> I took my former hunter/jumper pro thoroughbred from a wound up lesson horse to an easy going western trail horse. At the time it never occurred to me how silly we might have looked, and I had a lot of fun jumping him over some low fence posts I laid out, still in my western saddle. Everything about them said sturdy and secure.
> 
> When we got my barrel horse, well, we didn't have a saddle that fit him well after buying a few. So I rode him bareback in a halter, and that's how I learned to really ride. He had the ugliest, rocks in a blender trot so we either walked or cantered, and when I got a little confidence, a full out gallop just hanging onto the little scrap of a mane he had.
> 
> ...


Interesting! So you feel that a bigger Western saddle is less of a barrier between the rider and the horse, than a smaller English saddle? 

I thought that in a Western saddle one could sit, almost like in a chair, but in an English saddle one had to actually work on the balance more. Am I wrong?

I also wonder if a Western barn would be more open to her riding bareback, than her current barn. 

Lots of food for thought here. I'm so glad I asked the question here.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

As for the western saddle, you feel more "in" the horse, it cradles you between the pommel and cantle. So you feel a bit more secure. 
What I, and a few friends who switched, found is the hardest part to grasp is no or little contact with the reins. I had the "no control" feeling and got very confused about the different aids. At the end of my first western lesson I couldn't tell where left and right was And I rode my own horse, big TB, fresh out of training and argued with the instructor about him being capable of making tight turns


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Western, in my experience, let me learn to feel a horse and my own natural balance because I never felt like I was going to fall. I didn't have to constantly worry about it, and I could focus on the rest of my riding and just getting to know all the things my horse could teach me. In an English saddle, I felt like I was sliding all over the place and couldn't focus on much else but staying on the darn thing.

Now as I said I dont have much English experience but my barrel horse was as Western as it gets. You could put jumps and hedges and whatever you wanted and he would just plow straight through. He once bent a gate in half doing that and walked away without a scratch. But you did have to watch how you sat, so it wasn't so much a sit in a chair thing. Too much weight in the back and he would stop or back up. A nudge with your heels in a normal position meant go forward. A little further back was reserved for barrel racing, and that meant GO! So you still have to be mindful of how you sit and position yourself but that also depends on the individual horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

A western saddle has more support. I don't think of it as a barrier. No matter if your saddle weighs 12 lbs or 25 lbs, the horse CAN be felt underneath! I think a western saddle offers more side-to-side support than an English saddle does. That doesn't mean you cannot be secure in an English saddle, but it takes time and a somewhat different approach.

My oldest daughter and my daughter-in-law have both fallen sideways out of an Aussie-style saddle without a horn. They were off balance, and when the horse needed to turn fast there wasn't much left to help them. In both cases, having a horn to grab would have allowed them to get back into a balanced position instead of falling.

Western saddles (and the Aussie ones) tend to be deeper than jump or English all-purpose saddles. That means a higher front and back, which helps if the horse spooks and jumps forward, or suddenly braces - what I call "The OMG Crouch!" - been there, done that many times with my mare.

But in ANY saddle, you can learn to feel the horse's motion and what you need to do to move WITH the horse. If you get your balance in synch with his, and get your motion in synch with his, then you are riding WITH your horse instead of ON TOP of your horse.

It doesn't matter if you ride English or Western...if you learn to feel your horse's balance and movement, and link up with your horse as a partner, you are a rider. BTW - you shouldn't sit a western saddle like a chair either. Below is a picture of a cowboy from around 1900...his heels are forward of his hip, but that is NOT a chair seat. It is, however, a secure one:



















http://www.cartermuseum.org/collections/smith/collection.php?mcat=3&scat=41

It works good enough that I try to adapt it for my purposes:


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> As for the western saddle, you feel more "in" the horse, it cradles you between the pommel and cantle. So you feel a bit more secure.
> What I, and a few friends who switched, found is the hardest part to grasp is no or little contact with the reins. I had the "no control" feeling and got very confused about the different aids. At the end of my first western lesson I couldn't tell where left and right was And I rode my own horse, big TB, fresh out of training and argued with the instructor about him being capable of making tight turns



Thanks, interesting.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I agree with others. It's always a good idea to expand your riding skills. I've been riding western & english both my whole life. Love them both equally. 



Muppetgirl said:


> Oh, ok, my mistake! I almost freaked when I saw the girl jumping the Reiner, haha because he's better than my horse! Haha what a waste! LOL!


I have one of those wastes in my pasture. :wink: She did both well and kept her brains, love that old mare. Formally trained as a reiner but also jumped with cleats in her sliding plates. Of course she wasn't nearly as pretty over a jump course but when it came time for a timed jump off she could make darn good time and some really tight turns :wink:


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## Puddintat (Jul 24, 2010)

I ride hybrid style. I use a western saddle but ride with contact. I also sit more like an english rider, as best as I can in my saddle anyway. My instructor focuses on good balanced riding and not western vs. english.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

You could also tell the current trainer that it is a temp thing as the other barn is closer & the driving will be easier For You in the colder weather. And that You want your daughter to have a variety of experiences.


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

OMG, it's so weird reading how some of you feel about balance in an English saddle. I'm an English rider, and admittedly I've never ridden Western but I have ridden in a western saddle and I know how to neck rein from polo. I found the western saddle really restrictive, and I couldn't adjust my seat with the horse's movement the way I do in my English saddle to balance. I felt so unsafe, especially with where the saddle put my legs!! And the horn just got in my way. 

However, I do love the loose contact neck reining - it's what I do with my horses whenever I'm out hacking. It's just a nice relaxed way of riding.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

To my mind there would be little harm in an observant young woman riding Western in the winter and English in the summer - so long as someone knowledgeable showed her the difference between the two systems.

When I was younger I used to ride on an English saddle when going out with the hunt and in a Western saddle when riding with the local Western group.
But I always liked to ride 'in contact' on shortened reins when riding in either system. 

There's a saying "When in Rome does as the Romans do"and with a bit of practice it can apply to horse riding.

As for the horse - well it can be taught both ways.

BG


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

minstrel said:


> OMG, it's so weird reading how some of you feel about balance in an English saddle. I'm an English rider, and admittedly I've never ridden Western but I have ridden in a western saddle and I know how to neck rein from polo. I found the western saddle really restrictive, and I couldn't adjust my seat with the horse's movement the way I do in my English saddle to balance. I felt so unsafe, especially with where the saddle put my legs!! And the horn just got in my way.
> 
> However, I do love the loose contact neck reining - it's what I do with my horses whenever I'm out hacking. It's just a nice relaxed way of riding.


 There are big differences in western saddles. Some seats are built to put you in a certain position, others leave more room for constant adjustments. I pay close attention to a deep, straight seat with the stirrups hung directly underneath me. Maybe because my origin riding-wise is dressage. As for the horn, its a matter of where you have your hands. One handed they're held higher, and two handed on either side of the horn.


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## HorseMom1025 (Jul 17, 2012)

My 10 year old shows both Western and English. She started out English (and prefers it), but her coach also teaches Western and encouraged her to try it. She still struggles with the two rein, loose style of riding, but with practice she's finding it easier and easier to switch back and forth between the disciplines. (Although, she always has a more "English" posture when riding). 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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