# Critique possible purchase--APHA



## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

His purpose will be 4-H pleasure, trail horse. My daughter will play around with some reining, challenge trail course, stuff at home, but he'll be used primarily for 4-H and trail riding. He's young so she will not be using him for 4-H this year, maybe in a supervised lesson from time to time. I will be using him in my lessons and riding him 4-5 times until my trainer and I think he's safe to put my daughter on. Ideally we could find a 7-10 year old but so far I'm only finding burnt out, bitter, sour horses in that age range.

He is about 14.3 1/2 hands. He's well bred for pleasure and has an amazing temperment. We watched her wash him, we watched horses come and go from the arena while he was riding, we watched him ride towards a mirror, all without a reaction. Very mellow and easy going. This gal will give me a trial period at my barn, so I can see how he reacts to new places, and if he happens to have been slipped a mickey or something. 

Concerns: He's got a case of the runs right now. She says he's gone from a timothy/alfalfa combo to a rich orchard grass and has switched to a new place so she thinks he's having a reaction that way. Obviously that is something I would look into, just in case.

He has these weird bumps at his shoulder blades. See pics below. I don't know what they are. Any ideas? Are they of concern?

He doesn't have the prettiest head in the world, or soft, striking eyes.

He seems to be a bit under himself in the back. There is a horse at our barn built like that and he's the SMOOTHEST horse ever. Don't know if it's because of the way his back end is built or if it's just luck. This guy was not too bad at the trot as far as smoothness goes.

I hope these pictures are okay. He had never been asked to stand square and we did our best. I had to pee, it was cold and the owner needed to get to work. I got what I could. Keeping in mind her intended purpose, do you see anything that would be a major concern? I need a horse that has a good mind and is capable of being loved, adored and doted on my a kid.







































































Shoulder bump?










Anything alarming or unreasonable? 

One thing I appreciate about this gal is that she brought him out of the stall messy and real. She washed him up some in front of us and let us see him at his worst. You can see that he rolls and has a nice poop stain on his neck. He's a total wash rack, but fortunately just stands there!

As for movement, he's pretty comfy. Took both leads under saddle, has a reasonable pace that could be slowed down a bit with work. He's not too bumpy at a trot, can almost sit the trot. Doesn't have a jog. He flexes nicely, does better on the ground than under saddle, but he's young and green. He's registered as bay but he's black.


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## Thyme (Sep 4, 2010)

I not really great a critique but he looks like a nice sturdy mount for what your looking for.
I cant really see the bumps your talking about, how big are they? They could be ingrown hairs, my paint has a couple, they are common in paints especially in the white hair areas.
Hope it all works out so we can hit the trails in the summer!


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

The bumps are in the same spot on both sides. They are about the size of 1/2 a golf ball. In the picture of his shoulder you can kind of see the bump about an inch in front of the line of dirt coming off his neck. When he moved, they moved up and down.

Another question I had (looking through my notes!)...his teeth were really tiny. Could they be new adult teeth that have just recently grown in? They were really short.


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

How old is he? I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I see a steep shoulder. When we were looking I was told that a steeper the shoulder the bumpier the ride and this proved to be true with the horses we rode. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm totally off here - and ask your trainer I'm sure she would know! 

Keep us posted on what you decide!


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

newhorsemom said:


> How old is he? I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination but I see a steep shoulder. When we were looking I was told that a steeper the shoulder the bumpier the ride and this proved to be true with the horses we rode. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm totally off here - and ask your trainer I'm sure she would know!
> 
> Keep us posted on what you decide!


 
He's just shy of 4. I did some research and his teeth are very similar to the typical 2 year old's teeth, but his registration papers, and the pictures on his sire's website show him being a 2008 baby. Late bloomer?


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Have a vet look at his bumps and his teeth.


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> Have a vet look at his bumps and his teeth.


Most definitely. This gal is open to a trial, and even offered to deliver him. Kind of hard not to give it a whirl, right? I can get the vet check by our vet, as well as see if his digestive issues are easy to get under control.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

The one thing that really concerns me about him is how tiny his feet are. He's a big horse (and will only get bulkier since he's just 4) and having feet that small make me worry about how well he'll he'll be holding up into his 20's (which, if I remember correctly, is what you want) due to all the issues that come hand in hand with tiny feet on a large body.
His pasterns and steep shoulder concern me as well, in conjunction with those hooves. This may be incorrect, but I'm pretty sure that I've heard that short, steep pasterns+a steep shoulder can greatly increase impact on the hooves. 

He might hold up just fine over the long term, but it might be something worth mentioning to you vet during the vet check. If you can (and if your vet doesn't already know), I'd suggest telling the vet that you want this guy to be your/your daughter's riding partner for the next forever, and getting his/her views on how suitable he/she feels this horse is for that.

I do really like his hip. It appears pretty triangular, bone-wise, which lends itself to a really athletic horse, one that has an easier time being naturally off the forehand (something that's a plus with the build of his front end).

I think he's really cute and he certainly looks to have the right temperament for what you guys want to do with him! I love big bodied QH/Paints, there's just something very sturdy seeming about them.


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

Wallaby said:


> The one thing that really concerns me about him is how tiny his feet are. He's a big horse (and will only get bulkier since he's just 4) and having feet that small make me worry about how well he'll he'll be holding up into his 20's (which, if I remember correctly, is what you want) due to all the issues that come hand in hand with tiny feet on a large body.
> His pasterns and steep shoulder concern me as well, in conjunction with those hooves. This may be incorrect, but I'm pretty sure that I've heard that short, steep pasterns+a steep shoulder can greatly increase impact on the hooves.
> 
> He might hold up just fine over the long term, but it might be something worth mentioning to you vet during the vet check. If you can (and if your vet doesn't already know), I'd suggest telling the vet that you want this guy to be your/your daughter's riding partner for the next forever, and getting his/her views on how suitable he/she feels this horse is for that.
> ...


Thank you very much. Most definitely will talk to the vet about his feet/shoulders. I cannot emphasize how amazed we were at his temperment. It was awesome. He wasn't lovey and affectionate, but he was very kind and VERY respectful on the ground, on the lunge line, under saddle, everything. He didn't seem to react to much at all. 

I don't think he's PERFECT, but I do think he's a decent candidate, and his temperment is worth a lot more than a pretty face. I absolutely LOVE his butt. The perfect circle is so funny. I will have to let my daughter change his name if we get him because they have the same name and she doesn't want that. We've been threatened if we name him bullseye, but it's tempting!


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

LOL! Gotta agree with you - he has a great butt!! And Bullseye is the perfect name for him!! 

The fact that you can take him on trial is golden. Sounds like he has got good temperament for kids and who knows, you might even like his temperament more when you see him interacting with your daughter (even if it's just ground work). I know you won't be putting your daughter on him right away, but between you and your trainer I'm sure you'll determine if he will be a good horse for her to work with and train. After a few days I bet you'll have some of your questions answered and come up with new ones for the vet.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Looks a bit sickle hocked in some of the photos. Toed out in the back, Seems slightly cow hocked, Upright sounder and pasterns, right front toed out, left front looks knock kneed, something looks a little odd with his belly and back but can't quite figure out why. Maybe it's just me lol. I think he'll be fine for his intended purposes. 

I'm not an expert on feet but he does seem like he needs a bit more heel on him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

I would have the same concern as Wallaby. I don't know what kind of trails you ride - he might be OK on flat dirt trails, but I would disqualify him myself for more rugged trail work with those feet, sparse lower legs, and pasterns...


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

Faceman,Wallaby, thank you. I spent a lot of time yesterday thinking and talking with my trainer. We decided that our number 1 concern is the horrible loose stool issue he currently has. Maybe it's a diet change, maybe it's stress, but what if he gets that way with every change? Imagine each 4-H ride or show causing him to get that stressed. What is really causing it? Is he going to be prone to ulcers, or colic because of it, and is that why he was so mellow? Was he to the point of being lethargic? 

That might have something to do with his tummy that someone mentioned. I'm not totally ruling him out, but the health issue is just as big of a deal to me as structural issues. 

This is what happens when I spend 24 hours thinking...I almost talk myself out of horses. I guess that's a good thing since this is a long term commitment and I'm trusting my kid's life to this animal. It better be just right. I'll know when I am unable to talk myself out of a horse that I've found the right one. 

I think we'll go back down in 2 weeks and look one more time. If his stools have gone back to normal, I'll attribute it to stress, then consider how long it was going to take to get over that.

I really appreciate the feedback. I will keep looking, keep sharing options. I don't particularly want a mare, but there is a very local show horse that is for sale that I could also get a good trial on. We're going to check her out this week. She's a much better age for a kid, but I've heard rumors that she gets quite mare-ish at times. Do I want to deal with her and my daughter's hormones at the same time? That could really suck!


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

What are his bloodlines? If you posted them I apologize, but I didn't see anything. 

Also has he been rotation wormed on a schedule? Have you asked the current owner if he does any cribbing. We had a horse who's teeth were always short because she cribbed so had to have teeth work done about every 6 months. That gets pricey.


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## newhorsemom (Jun 20, 2008)

We have a mare that gets very "mare-ish" to the point where I didn't think she'd be safe to put my daughter on at a show. We gave Mare Magic a try and it has worked wonders. Our mare still gets a little "distracted" a couple of days a month but nothing my daughter can't handle. I don't think it works for every horse, but if you like mare it might be worth a try.


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