# Im Breeding My Dream Foal



## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

This is Elvis White Diamond


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

Elviswhitediamond Look at the babies he puts on the ground *drooling


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Wow! Pretty nice.


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

Gorgeous but geez, I am definitely not a fan of the muscle that stallion has. It looks unnatural.


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

What are you wanting to do with the foal?


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Is this foal going to be for your riding horse? His feet are too tiny to support his weight, and I'd be terrified of your foal getting them and not being able to do much except halter.


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

MsBHavin said:


> Is this foal going to be for your riding horse? His feet are too tiny to support his weight, and I'd be terrified of your foal getting them and not being able to do much except halter.


Also the straight hocks the sire produces will be troublesome in riding.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I don't know enough about conformation to get past the tiny feet, so I left that for the experts! haha


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Eeek. I have never understood the QH people, changing the conformation to horses such as this, purely for halter. I'm looking at that horse's body and imagine it weighs as much as many of our Gypsy Horses. Yet our Gypsies have huge bone and feet, to carry the weight through years of hard work and use. Quarter Horses were bred to be a sturdy, useful, working breed. I cannot imagine many of these halter horses, standing up to real work, over more than a couple of years. 

Lizzie


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

All the parents are riding horses with good feet etc. It will be a halter horse in its youth but never built up to the extent of some of today's horses. It will be a rider as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

While I'm not a particular fan of AQHA/APHA/APHC halter horses I have known a few who have been used for riding...Actually, I know of a AQHA world champion halter mare who also does roping and has gone to the Worlds to do so. 

Like what others have said, Halter horses like the one you want to be bred to your mare have very small feet and have straight hocks. A lot of halter horses just do halter. However your mare doesn't seem to be very, very halter bred to me. 

If you do end up using the babies to ride, I would just suggest letting their feet grow large as much as possible to support their massive body. 

Never-the-less, I really like the looks of that stallion. He seems very pretty, do you have more pics of him?

(btw- Featheredfeet, loving the new avatar)


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I would be interested to know how many of these incredibly, heavily muscled QHs with small bone and tiny feet, do actually compete over long periods and stay sound. I've been attending cutting horse championships for many years and never seen one horse, built like the stallion pictured. 

Re the avatar. Thanks TheAQHAGirl. That is Playboy, my daughter's former Gypsy Horse stallion. He has just been sold back to England, where he originally came from. 
My daughter first spied him there as a youngster. Luckily, he has left some mighty good offspring here in the US. He is certainly a well travelled boy.

Lizzie


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

We will see......


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I've known quite a few ropers that like ex halter horses and halter horse flunkies and use them for heading/heeling. They like the mass and stopping power. I also personally know a Mr. Yella Fella son that was a halter horse until he was 5 and then broke to ride, he currently is giving lessons and being trail ridden over tough terrain almost daily.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

While the stallion isn't my cup of tea, that is really just a personal preference. It's not what I like, but we all have our likes and dislikes. 

The thing that bothers me is not the stud. Looking at the mares on the website, almost all of them are HYPP N/H and many are listed as in foal to Elvis. Yes, he's N/N, but I personally do not agree with breeding knowing the potential posed to the resulting foals. Again, this is just my personal opinion, but I would not want to support that type of breeder. If I have misread or am misinformed, please correct me.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Their up and coming junior stallion is NH too . I am happy for the OP that she will get her dream foal, but also do not agree with breeding NH horses. This horrible disease could be eradicated in just one generation if they would stop breeding NH horses.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

That's true - Wasn't trying to put a damper on the OP. 

HipHopHorseWoman, I'm happy you're finally getting the foal you want. That is always exciting, especially if you have been waiting a while. When are you planning on breeding?


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

HiphophorseMAN!! LOL

We are breeding this month and I wouldn't breed NH either. I know they are breeding nh mares hoping for creme of the crop nn but that's a consistent crapshoot
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Haha omg! Sorry about that! 

I understand trying to breed for the cream of the crop, but wouldn't it just make more sense to breed outstanding n/n mares? If I understand correctly, I think you only need one copy of the HYPP gene for the horse to be affected by it, unlike other genetic disorders like OLWS where you need two. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought I had read that somewhere. 

However, that's neither here nor there as it's beyond your control. I hope everything goes well for you and that your mare catches easily. Has she had any foals before?


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Hey HHH ... where the heck you been??? Nice to have you back.


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

As regards to the horse I talked about doing under saddle work here she is:

A Classic Edition- a Classic Edition Quarter Horse










Here is the ad that I saw on the Magazine 'The Equine Chronicle'.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

She appears very over at the knee in the pics. Would this be some sign of a heavily muscled horse, working?

Lizzie


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## smaile (Sep 21, 2010)

*?*

I know exactly nothing about Quarter Horses, so maybe this question may seem dumb, but how the hell can you get THAT much muscle on a horse that can`t be ridden.??? Even Grand Prix showjumpers does not have that much muscles on them.
Sorry if this will offend some of you, but horses in these pictures - huge, unnatural muscles, tiny, tiny legs - looks scary.


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

Very excited for you that you will (hopefully) be getting your dream horse.

Do you have a backup plan for the horse if he/she ends up not being suitable as your riding mount? Would you be okay with just showing at halter if that's what the foal is suited for?

The reason I ask is that I seem to recall that you require a rather large mount (no shame in that, I need a larger horse myself), so I'm just wondering whether this pairing is going to give you the size and substance you need in a riding horse.

Also: I seem to recall that you're a beginner/intermediate... (I may be misremembering and I'm too lazy to check!), so hopefully you have a good trainer you're planning to work with.

Good luck!


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

FeatheredFeet said:


> She appears very over at the knee in the pics. Would this be some sign of a heavily muscled horse, working?
> 
> Lizzie


Well the AQHA halter horses I've seen are far away from ideal conformation...Lots of the ones I see are very post legged. I would say either the working would cause her to be over at the knee or just a conformational flaw that had nothing to do with her riding.


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

smaile said:


> I know exactly nothing about Quarter Horses, so maybe this question may seem dumb, but how the hell can you get THAT much muscle on a horse that can`t be ridden.??? Even Grand Prix showjumpers does not have that much muscles on them.
> Sorry if this will offend some of you, but horses in these pictures - huge, unnatural muscles, tiny, tiny legs - looks scary.


1. Genetics, number one. The difference between The Rock and Lance Armstrong. 

2. Fitting. Fitting a halter horse builds different muscle groups than a riding horse, and often times when a halter horse is brought into riding they are slimmed down because they are not fit in the same way. Halter horses are fit only building the large muscle groups - particularly by long trotting in deep sand. Too much loping or agile activity actually decreases the size of large muscle groups. The idea of "bulking up" versus "getting fit". Like a body builder trains different muscle groups than a marathon runner.


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

Primarily we are seeking a halter horse that can be ridden. All the horses on the maternal side are riding horses so im sure the future foal will be able to meet the goals we want


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

its also all about keeping a bloodline of horses that we've owned in the past on the ground..


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

oh vair oh said:


> 1. Genetics, number one. The difference between The Rock and Lance Armstrong.
> 
> 2. Fitting. Fitting a halter horse builds different muscle groups than a riding horse, and often times when a halter horse is brought into riding they are slimmed down because they are not fit in the same way. Halter horses are fit only building the large muscle groups - particularly by long trotting in deep sand. Too much loping or agile activity actually decreases the size of large muscle groups. The idea of "bulking up" versus "getting fit". Like a body builder trains different muscle groups than a marathon runner.


So am I correct in thinking, that if these halter horses are no long kept in their bulking-up training, they eventually go back to appearing what most of us would consider, 'normal'?

Lizzie


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Lizzie .. yes. It's kinda like someone who pumps iron for a competition. If they quit pumping iron, they loose the muscle.. if they sit around and do nothing, they get fat .. if they start running .. they get lean and more long muscled instead of all the bulk ....


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

Got it. So with that in mind, it doesn't seem so strange to me, that _some_ of these horses can go on to work/compete in other diciplines, after they get rid of all the ridiculous muscle. Still wonder how some might hold up however, with the small bone and tiny feet. There is still a lot of truth in the old saying, "The foot makes the horse."

I noticed something else about the stallion pictured. He has extremely small eyes. I don't like to see this in any breed.

Lizzie


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

FeatheredFeet said:


> Got it. So with that in mind, it doesn't seem so strange to me, that _some_ of these horses can go on to work/compete in other diciplines, after they get rid of all the ridiculous muscle. Still wonder how some might hold up however, with the small bone and tiny feet. There is still a lot of truth in the old saying, "The foot makes the horse."
> 
> I noticed something else about the stallion pictured. He has extremely small eyes. I don't like to see this in any breed.
> 
> Lizzie


I think it's an optical illusion. Seeing them in person frequently, I wouldn't say they have small bone and tiny feet. They have normal bone and normal feet, but their large weight makes them look small in comparison. 

Plus the amount of photoshop that goes on in halter horse pictures is ridiculous. You really have to go hang out with them at the shows a lot to get a feel for what they "really" look like.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

That makes sense.

Lizzie


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm sure there are plenty of anti-muscle and halter horse threads out there for your viewing pleasure ...

HHH .. good luck with your dream breeding! Be sure to have a foaling thread.

Oh, and hey .... don't be such a stranger..

~tg


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Glynnis said:


> Haha omg! Sorry about that!
> 
> I understand trying to breed for the cream of the crop, but wouldn't it just make more sense to breed outstanding n/n mares? If I understand correctly, I think you only need one copy of the HYPP gene for the horse to be affected by it, unlike other genetic disorders like OLWS where you need two. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought I had read that somewhere.
> 
> However, that's neither here nor there as it's beyond your control. I hope everything goes well for you and that your mare catches easily. Has she had any foals before?


You only need one copy for HYPP to be active. A horse may be asymptomatic for a long time and have an attack out of the blue. I, under any circumstances, would not want the heartache and danger of working with an NH or HH horse. 



FeatheredFeet said:


> So am I correct in thinking, that if these halter horses are no long kept in their bulking-up training, they eventually go back to appearing what most of us would consider, 'normal'?
> 
> Lizzie


For the most part yes, but not always. More so with HYPP positive horses...


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> You only need one copy for HYPP to be active. A horse may be asymptomatic for a long time and have an attack out of the blue. I, under any circumstances, would not want the heartache and danger of working with an NH or HH horse.
> 
> 
> 
> For the most part yes, but not always. More so with HYPP positive horses...


Actually, people who know how to handle HYPP horses generally can almost prevent the "out of the blue". By giving them a proper diet, having karo syrup on hand, and exercising which actually helps alleviate symptoms of HYPP. Colic is the #1 killer of horses, and can happen out of the blue. But we're not nearly as afraid of colic because we know how to handle it. Likewise, someone who deals with HYPP horses on a daily basis knows how to handle it. I'm not saying breeding for HYPP is a good thing, but for my friends with N/H horses they rarely have heartache or danger. Usually it's the people who don't know their horse is N/H or who have not have experience with N/H horses before. Though I know there are stories of people who have horses falling out underneath them, I think I've seen more horses fall and perish during a cross country course than I have ever seen during my entire life of breed showing. 

There is no scientific difference in muscle size in an N/N horse or an N/H horse. Which is why you must test your horse to be sure.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Just becuase a horse is fed the "proper" diet does not mean that they will not have an attack. All it does is lessen the chance. Yes any horse can colic. Not any horse will have any HYPP attack. Kind of asinine comparing the two as one can be bred out of the gene pool while one cannot. Both can be fatal. 

HYPP positive horses are not something I would chose to deal with and I personally believe that it is asinine and unethical to continue to breed HYPP horses.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

A former friend of mine had a horse who'd never shown symptoms, was fed proper diet, and trained to the hilt. Still keeled over one day and started having 'symptoms'. There is never a 100% non-symptomatic horse. Period.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

HHH, are you aware of the costs associated with breeding, which can easily add up to the thousands? It's not my intent to insult you, but I seem to recall that you're rather new to horses. Please correct me if I'm wrong. With this in mind, do you have a trainer that is willing to work very closely with you to train and fit the horse for halter? Have you considered registration fees, show fees (a weekend AQHA show can cost thousands) and training fees? Do you have a backup plan in case the horse ends up with faulty conformation and cannot be successfully shown?

If so, I wish you luck in your endeavor. If you have any questions, feel free to ask!


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Why do you think money or knowledge is an issue for him?

I think HHH has got this. I believe he's been around plenty of horses and horse people.

I think he knows what he wants and knows the people to help him get there.

jmho


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Texas, I never said it was. I just want to make sure he understands the commitments. I have nothing against breeding proven stock; I just want to make sure he doesn't get in over his head.  I give the same speech to anyone that asks about breeding.

Be sure to keep us updated with pregnancy and foaling updates! We love foal pictures ;-)


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Equiniphile, you ask good questions. It's always a bit of a crapshoot on online forums because you're getting so little of the person's actual intended communication. 

I know when people have asked me these questions regarding knowledge, finances, etc., it's always made me make double sure that I know what I'm in for should the need arise and I'm sure the OP sees that too. These are always good questions to ask and even after they've been answered, I think it's always good for us to re-ask ourselves over and over again because those issues (unfortunately) never really go away. With horses, you can never have too much money and never too much knowledge!  I apologize that turned into a bit of a rant and I fear I've hijacked the thread from the OP. 

Back to the topic at hand...


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## Falcor74 (May 28, 2013)

He is beautiful.


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

Look guys/gals I am working with someone who has won phba world show over a dozen times.. and THE REASONING FOR ME BEING INVOLVED IN BREEDING THIS MARE TO THIS STUD IS SO MY FRIEND CAN HAVE A PIECE OF HER EQUINE HISTORY ON THE GROUND AT ALL TIMES.. At her place she rides her horses.. Dressage Hunter Jumper W/P and Halter. This future horse is going back to the place that its maternal grandparents were raised. Its more about the love for Coco and Jessica and keeping those bloodlines on the ground than winning shows or anything. Its for the LOVE OF THE ANIMAL NOT WINNING AND SHOWING. 

Why is everyone so into this Hypp thing both HORSES ARE NEGATIVE. Janet nor I believe in putting Hypp positive or half positive horses on the ground. 

IM EXTACTIC THAT I HAD THE VISION TO FIND A WAY TO KEEP JESSICA AND COCO'S BLOOD AT OUR PLACE. That's whats its all about... 

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR INPUT.


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

Everyone around me in the horse world has more years experience than I've been on this earth. Im in good hands like ALL STATE


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

TexasGal, Whats Going On...


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

HHH .... not much ... whatcha up to?


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

HipHopHorseman said:


> Look guys/gals I am working with someone who has won phba world show over a dozen times.. and THE REASONING FOR ME BEING INVOLVED IN BREEDING THIS MARE TO THIS STUD IS SO MY FRIEND CAN HAVE A PIECE OF HER EQUINE HISTORY ON THE GROUND AT ALL TIMES.. At her place she rides her horses.. Dressage Hunter Jumper W/P and Halter. This future horse is going back to the place that its maternal grandparents were raised. Its more about the love for Coco and Jessica and keeping those bloodlines on the ground than winning shows or anything. Its for the LOVE OF THE ANIMAL NOT WINNING AND SHOWING.
> 
> Why is everyone so into this Hypp thing both HORSES ARE NEGATIVE. Janet nor I believe in putting Hypp positive or half positive horses on the ground.
> 
> ...


You seem to have all of the right people around you in this, and the wisdom to research all the important QH topics - My registered QH mare, (as seen on the left in my avatar), is a granddaughter of Impressive, (she is hypp n/n), has had 4 foals, and was a Sheriff Search and Rescue horse with her 1st owner. Her 2nd owner, (a teenage girl) had her in 4-H Halter as a hobby for a few years prior to my ownership. Now, she's still a healthy mare,(22 yrs old!), and a lovely, spoiled pleasure horse for me. I ride her bitless when I do ride, and she's a delight! Best of luck to you


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

Lucy went to the vet yesterday to have her culture done... Should be off to see Elvis White Diamond next week


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

*Not sure if you all met the Clydesdale FoaL*

"lil man" june 6, 2013 6pm


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

He's just adorable!


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## MGTS (May 13, 2013)

Oh he is a DOLL!!!!


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## BrieannaKelly (May 31, 2012)

Absolutely ADORABLE!! Can't wait to see more photos of him unfolding!
Congratulations!


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## HipHopHorseman (Jun 25, 2012)

He came out quite nice everyone... Foaled 07/10/15

Elvis White Diamond x Obviously Diamond


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Yay! So cute.


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