# Smoke just tore his frog :(



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

I swear it never ends with Smoke. -Sigh-
I was out in the pasture and he was ripping and tearing before suddenly wiping out on a turn and landing on his side. He stood back up and seemed fine, but I went over and checked him out anyway. I picked up his front right hoof and it appears he has torn his frog at the base. Like, I can see it when he has his hoof on the ground because it sticks out behind him. It's not bleeding and he just got his hooves trimmed and managed on Friday. The guy did an excellent job by the way. He's not limping or anything, but he doesn't like it when I mess with it. Do I need to have the farrier come out again, or should I just use iodine to pack it and keep an eye on it?


----------



## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

Picture? Horses shed pretty big chunks off of their hooves sometimes, regardless of accidents... I'd have someone look at it just in case.


----------



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

I tried getting a picture, but I need to charge the batteries in my camera first. I may have to wait until tomorrow.


----------



## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

It's not uncommon to see large bits of frog missing as posted above. Horses actually shed off the entire frog throughout growing cycles of the hoof (though I'm not sure how often). I would have a second set of eyes take a look, or at least post a picture here to help give us an idea. If he's not lame on it I'd take that as a sign he'll be fine, but better safe than sorry right?


----------



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

Yeah, he's not limping at all, and as I said it isn't bleeding. It's like it tore away from the hoof and is only attached at the back. He only flinches when I pull too far. I don't think it'll bother him, his hoof just looks a bit hollow now. I will get a picture tomorrow, and I'm going to keep an eye on it.


----------



## Chella (May 23, 2009)

I have seen an entire frog shed off as a hoof was changing. My farrier just cut it off. It looks weird as the new little fresh frog grows in but it never lamed him up.


----------



## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

Is it possible that prior to even slipping and falling down-go-boom, that he had thrush that maybe exacerbated a problem that otherwise would have been nothing? I've seen a horse who had had it so bad that his frog just chunked off until it looked like a hole (granted deep enough in it was still frog, not bloody or gunky - the infected tissue just came off a lot easier and quicker than it would have in the "normal" shed out). It would make it more prone to deeper shedding. They are constantly growing their frog... it is a lot like your cuticle, you know? So pulling on it where it is attached is like pulling on a hangnail. The farrier will likely trim it off to the point where it is attached so he doesn't actually tear into the sensitive area by dragging it around.

Ktibb had a good point: if he is not lame he is probably fine, but better safe than sorry


----------



## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

ouch. If it is not weeping or bleeding it would not really matter, but as soon as it starts making him limp or bleeds or anything, i would poultice it.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi,

I'd cut the daggy bit off, put a bit of iodine on it *if* there was blood and just keep an eye on him for a few days, to make sure he's not sore on it/it's infected or such. I wouldn't think it's anything to really worry about, altho as people have said, without pics & details, can't be sure.


----------



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

Actually my farrier mentioned that in his rear hoof he most likely had a really really bad case of thrush to the point where it just ate away at his frog completely, but that was before I got him and it is still in the stage of getting back to normal. No other signs of thrush though, especially in his front feet.


----------



## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

yep i would poultice it to get the thrust infection out


----------



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

He no longer has the infection though. The farrier said the thrush happened over a year ago, and is completely healed, just the frog is taking a long, long time to recover.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Phantom Legacy said:


> He no longer has the infection though. The farrier said the thrush happened over a year ago, and is completely healed, just the frog is taking a long, long time to recover.


Sorry, I missed the bit about thrush. If there's definitely no thrush present, don't worry, but if there are cracks, a contracted, deep central sulcus 'crack', etc, there quite possibly is thrush there that is not obvious & it would pay to at least spray them with some iodine & then daily with ACV as a preventative.

Also, regardless of length of time & whether it's currently thrush that is contributing to his heel problems, they won't get better on their own. They need to be in a position to support & absorb the impact of the feet. If because of thrush or whatever else, they are too sensitive to be used properly by the horse, not only will they not become stronger(& will remain more susceptible to thrush), but he will also be landing toe-first to avoid sensitivity on them, which is problematic for a number of reasons. Therefore I'd consider protecting his feet with boots, pads, etc, whenever he's on hard ground, to allow him to *comfortably* use & therefore strengthen his heels.

Interested to see hoof pics & more details about his diet, lifestyle, exercise, etc?


----------



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

That is some good information, and I will keep it in mind.
He doesn't seem to be "ouchy" at all when he walks, and I haven't noticed any toe-first walking, but perhaps I'll get a video of him just walking around today? Another set of eyes would probably help.
His hooves have always worried me considering they wear unevenly in the back, and where I was boarding them they got worse because the farrier just wasn't keeping up with them even when I paid in advance. Now we have an excellent farrier, but it'll still be a process. Smoke has pretty flat feet, and are less hollow than most I see.
His diet is free choice hay consisting of timothy, orchard grass, and alfalfa. He also gets four pounds of grain each day. It's Purina Strategy Healthy Edge. Lifestyle, he's mostly just a pasture nut right now. We've been busy constantly since we moved into the new place, but I do get to ride every once in a while, and that's usually down the paved road. He never has a problem with it.
The hoof that once had thrush never bothered him so long as I've had him. He's never shown any sign of pain, I just noticed that the frog looked/grew strangely compared to his others and I asked the farrier about it.


----------



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

You can see that it is detached from the back.
































I can lift and bend it back, but only so far before he flinches.

Compared to his other front hoof.


----------



## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

He has a deep crevice in the central groove of his frogs: this is a prime spot for thrush to hide. It looks like there was a similar crevice in the frog that is peeling completely off. Deep, dark, holds moisture... thrush breeding ground galore! My horse has that same problem: our farrier told me that some horses develop that deep crevice, and others it closes up (my other horse doesn't have it). I'd get some thrush buster and treat those at least once a month (just insert the nozzle into the deep crevice and squeeze it in there until the area is saturated). It is essentially a really bad hangnail which is why he flinches 

On the plus side, while the amount of frog that has come off has left quite the canyon in his hoof, it looks like there is good healthy frog growing underneath. I'd really focus on doing what you can to promote healthy growth and have your farrier out ASAP to take care of it and give you his/her two-cents as to the best course of action to promote healthy regrowth! Good luck!


----------



## Phantom Legacy (Nov 27, 2009)

Alright, I really appreciate the information. That is just what I'm going to have to do then. Thank you.


----------



## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

I would advise to wash his foot well with soapy water, then rinse really well. Dry it and apply 50/50 zinc ointment and triple antibiotic ointment mix to every area that he will let you. Right into all the crevices and under the torn section. I use a toothbrush to do this with. The ointment will help it to heal; it also is a great thrush treatment and deterrent. I would not use thrushbuster since this is an actual wound.

As mentioned, the new frog looks fine underneath and you want to keep it that way.

Good luck.


----------



## leonalee (Jul 1, 2010)

NorthernMama - I meant thrush buster on the opposite, uninjured foot, and then on that one after it is all better (hence my suggestion to have the farrier help her determine the proper course of action).


----------



## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

^^ ah! I understand.


----------

