# First ride in a while and first video!



## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

What I could see is the reins are to short, your hands "to loud", aka to much movement, and you are sitting in the backseat of the car trying to reach the gas pedal in form.
All = you are fighting yourself.

Lengthen your reins, a soft bend in your elbow.
Your hands need to be where neck and wither meet as approximation of where they should look to be, then try fully extending your pinky above that part of the horses anatomy is about 4 - 5" at most, not half way up the neck is a gross exaggeration.
I was told hand height is even with your belly button at most whether riding western, English or whatever.
The further out your arm hangs the more motion your arm is going to have as it has no stability or strength propped in never-land.


As for your posting...you need to scrunch your butt forward in the saddle so your crotch is touching the sweep up of the pommel...
I think either your saddle is to flat, your saddle is tilted down and back, it is to large for you or those combined and then some more..was hard to see clearly at such a distance of filmed.
You though have your legs propped way out in front of you, called a "chair-seat" then need to haul your body up and out of the saddle and doing that, yes you are using the horses mouth for balancing, hence he is not happy is accurate in your assumption.
Your instructor needs to get you better positioned where to sit in the saddle to offer you support and help and I bet much of your horses displeasure shall disappear, you will be more comfortable and able to easier ride and control with less effort on your part..
Your basics need some fine-tuning and practice..once you though get your body where it needs to be I think the rest is going to suddenly make sense and be easier for you to ride and communicate with your horse quietly.
Horse is a nice animal and has a caring rider who knows some tweaking needs done, a work in progress and for one who hasn't ridden much in the past year...not bad, not bad at all!!
:runninghorse2:...


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## NeedMoreCoffee (May 27, 2015)

Thank you! Those were all of my concerns answered so kindly and straight forward! I think a big contributor to my position is the saddle ( not discounting the me part of that equation lol) though I am not sure I have ever ridden in a saddle that truly fits me so I don't know how much to blame the saddle haha



horselovinguy said:


> What I could see is the reins are to short, your hands "to loud", aka to much movement, and you are sitting in the backseat of the car trying to reach the gas pedal in form.
> All = you are fighting yourself.
> 
> Lengthen your reins, a soft bend in your elbow.
> ...



Yes! okay so this is what I thought and felt was more correct! I was trying to do as the instructor said and it just did not feel right. I think made me way more tense and as you said, made me fight myself. That is not to say that I would have done any better with zero input but I may have been less tense. I was so worried about yanking on her mouth, I made my hands louder and myself less stable. 

I groomed and took lessons from two dressage instructors 5/6 years ago (not a lot of riding, i got in as much as I could with a baby and husband with a crazy schedule but I did get to watch a lot of lessons and attend clinics) and regularly in their lessons the did the crop behind your back and through the elbows thing (gosh i hope that makes sense, I'm typing and chasing the kiddos haha). Maybe if I can get some more ride time in this week I will try that with B.O around. 

She didn't say anything about my chair seat but she she grew up in the saddle seat world and I know they ride a bit different than dressage but I'm just not sure how much of that may contribute to the different positions and teachings etc? Or maybe not?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I get exactly what you meant about the stick and arms...
I rode with a oversized "coat hanger and broom stick"...squared shoulders and straight back.
Don't _ever_ look at me now. :icon_rolleyes:

If this trainer is a saddle seat rider/instructor then you need to find a instructor who teaches English equitation as you ride in a English saddle.
Even western equitation has much the same positioning or aligning of the body...head, shoulder, hip and heel.
No longer does western do the chair seat as they once did..
Saddle seat riders do sit in that "chair seat" appearances with rock steady arms extended out in front of them high, but also realize that ASB, saddle seat horses have longer neck appearances and in reality they have long necks over other breeds.
So if she isn't correcting or is positioning you as a ss rider, then that is not in your best interest in my opinion.
Look at some you-tube videos of English equitation riders of all ages and see what you can see versus what you are doing or being instructed to do at this point.
You should be able to see many things when you watch...
Your dressage instruction has you knowing body alignment as described above, they ride with a straighter, longer leg than equitation riders...a happy medium between the two disciplines will probably work well for you.
As long as you are not riding and intending to compete, be comfortable and secure astride is most important. You have a young family it sounds to make your safety astride be most important...no getting hurt please.
:runninghorse2:....


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

As for your chair seat as HLG pointed out, I think the problem is stemming from how far you feet are in the stirrups, your stirrup length, and perhaps even the saddle itself.

The ball of your foot should be on the stirrup pads - from what I can see, your feet are pushed far into the stirrup, which will hinder your ability to post with ease and also presents a danger if you come off. If you bring your foot out of the stirrup a bit, you should feel the weight of your body 'enter' your heel more deeply, and give you a bit more support.

As for your stirrup length, there are a couple of tricks to find your sweet spot.
1. From the ground, place your hand on the stirrup bar, and use your other hand to take the stirrup up and into your arm pit. You will want the stirrup to rest in your armpit. This approximates the length of how long you will want your stirrups.
2. From the saddle, hang your legs down while sitting in the deepest part of the saddle. The stirrup should hit your ankle bone.
Of course some adjustments may be needed, depending on the horse you are riding and what is comfortable, but trick #1 is what I most commonly use.
For jumping/flatwork, a 90degree angle behind the knee is the goal. For dressage, I'm seeing a 140degree angle, but I certainly won't have my stirrups this long in an all-purpose/jump saddle.

And as for the saddle, it looks like something is off that may be making things a bit more tough for you...but I'm not sure. I'd try shortening your stirrups first, and adjusting your foot in the stirrup first, and seeing where that puts you.

Remember, _shoulder-hip-heel_ alignment is a good starting point, and if you can't comfortably get into proper position at a stand-still, I'd think about if the saddle is helping or hindering you...


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

NeedMoreCoffee said:


> Yes! okay so this is what I thought and felt was more correct! I was trying to do as the instructor said and it just did not feel right. I think made me way more tense and as you said, made me fight myself. That is not to say that I would have done any better with zero input but I may have been less tense. I was so worried about yanking on her mouth, I made my hands louder and myself less stable.
> 
> I groomed and took lessons from two dressage instructors 5/6 years ago (not a lot of riding, i got in as much as I could with a baby and husband with a crazy schedule but I did get to watch a lot of lessons and attend clinics) and regularly in their lessons the did the crop behind your back and through the elbows thing (gosh i hope that makes sense, I'm typing and chasing the kiddos haha). Maybe if I can get some more ride time in this week I will try that with B.O around.
> 
> She didn't say anything about my chair seat but she she grew up in the saddle seat world and I know they ride a bit different than dressage but I'm just not sure how much of that may contribute to the different positions and teachings etc? Or maybe not?


Oh, I just read that there was an instructor instructing you...yeah, I would be searching for a different instructor. 

I rode saddle seat and won't place the blame there, as you can ride technically correct in the saddle seat world, while a horse is high-stepping beneath you. I can go between a saddle seat horse and my jumper, and adjust myself accordingly. My hands go from parallel to the high-necked saddle-seat horse's mouth to lower, in-line with my jumpers mouth. My legs adjust from the longer saddle-seat stirrups and flat seated cutback saddle, to my shorter-stirruped jump saddle.

If the instructor doesn't know how to differentiate and teach between these two different types of riding, there is a better instructor out there for you - to help you remember what you had learned before, and build from there.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Don't feel bad. work on finding a better stirrup length; shorter.


That horse obviously has a history of resisting contact, and no doubt it has had enough of it at the hands of learning riders that it not surprising that it braces against the hand. 



Your hands will become quieter with shorter stirrups and your leg more under you. 



You got some nice responses in the turns, and I think it is from your focus on the seat in the turn. I feel certain you have the makings of a good rider.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

I think some of the contact issues would resolve themselves better if the horse were more forward. I'd worry less about what's happening in front and get that horse moving. He's stepping short in behind and not really trotting well for you. Though it looks like you're in a tight space so getting good forward movement may be a bit challenging.

With one of the horses I'm riding right now, a green guy who has some issues with either bracing against contact or sucking behind it... I just pretend he doesn't have a head, for the most part. And by that I mean I keep a very soft, following hand and do as little as possible with the reins. And I think instead about getting him moving. Forwardness will lead to more straightness, straightness will lead to better contact. Big gentle turns also help them to reach into the reins a bit better, as long as you're soft and keep them MOVING through the turn. But yeah, more from that horse's behind, less focus on what's happening up front.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

You have practically all my equitation faults, congratulations!

Some things which are helping me to get over them: 

Think of riding as if you had no lower legs. "Riding with stubby legs" is what Sally Swift (the book 'Centered Riding', highly recommended) calls it. I think of _pointing my kneecaps at the ground_, and making my thighs as long as I can. My lower legs are just hanging there against my horse. These two things have enormously helped my chair seat. 

As for your hands ... I call it 'pushing the stroller'. I had to clamp my elbows to my sides in order to make myself stop doing this. One of the reasons your horse is fighting contact is that your hands are all over the place, she has no place to rest. My teacher tells me "carry your hands". Sally Swift says "hold a little bird in each hand, facing each other". Your thumbs should point up, which they will automatically if your elbows are at your sides. 

My homework this week is to hold my hands STILL. Elbows at sides, wrists in line with my lower arm bones, and STILL. I can do this without contact but I still can't do it consistently with contact. When I do, though, guess what? My horse comes right on the bit with a beautiful arch in her neck. Which she has never done before. And now I know why!


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

quote horselovingguy
" Saddle seat riders do sit in that "chair seat" appearances with rock steady arms extended out in front of them high, but also realize that ASB, saddle seat horses have longer neck appearances and in reality they have long necks over other breeds."

I am taking lessons from a dressage trainer in a dressage saddle but my horse is a Saddlebred. They do have very long high necks. I remember the first time I rode Arago, so much in front of me with that high curved neck it was like riding a black swan.


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## NeedMoreCoffee (May 27, 2015)

These comments are so helpful and uplifting!! It’s all things I see but with actual helpful ideas on how to think about fixing the issues. I get very in my head and know that if I’m choosing to ride I need to make sure I’m doing the best I can for the horse. 

I hope my comment about the instructor being from the saddle seat world wasn’t taken as negative! I only included that to see if maybe that played into how I was being asked to ride and it seems like that isn’t the case (it’s the instruction vs the discipline).

I really like the stubby leg analogy! That actual makes a ton of sense to me! I tend to grab with my knees because i have the “calves on” so intrenched in my mind! 

And the birds in the hand makes sense too! I am hoping my hands this ride were so off because of being tense from trying to listen to the instructor and from being rusty. I’ve been complimented on not balancing on my hands and being light by previous teachers but again that was in the past. But it’s so good to have that to focus on and make sure I am expressing to my next instructor that I want to make sure I am fixing that!

I have a couple of places to check out for lessons but unfortunately I won’t be able to get into regular lessons anytime soon. Virtual school for my 7 year old is destroying my free time lol darn kids coming first. There is a lady at my barn who has offered to give me lessons (and I trust her to give solid feed back based on lessons I’ve seen her give and based on our conversations about riding and riding theory) however we have scheduling problems. She also has two young kids, she works and lives about an hour away from the barn and I’m about 40 mins away. So that won’t work for regular lessons. My BO can help and I also respect her methods as well (from watching and listening) but again it’s a scheduling issue.

Do you all have any suggestions on things to look for or specific questions to ask new barns?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

NeedMoreCoffee said:


> Do you all have any suggestions on things to look for or specific questions to ask new barns?


I've always looked for a instructor who can demonstrate what they want you to do because sometimes i just not understand the explanation but once visually saw the lightbulb went on and I went "got it!" and did...
I look for someone who can explain more than one way because just repeating and beating the topic dead when the student not get it is not making progress but frustration.
I look for a instructor who can encourage, rip you a new one yet you don't feel attacked...
I look for the instructor who is challenging, but supportive when you are working hard at a new topic...
The instructor who finds good no matter how sucky the lesson was, they find a good thing to end on.
I look for a instructor who asks you for what you learned to day in the lesson then gives you "homework" within reason to practice so next lesson you can show what you have been able to accomplish and if learned strong the next part of the foundation to build on...
The instructor who is just as happy for you when you reach your goal as you are...then gently channels you if you want to build and go on to new material, or to work and continue to fine-tune till you truly are confident in what you've learned...however not letting you not feel good about your progression even if small as it is learned really well.
I don't always make great strides in new material every lesson, but over time the picture is seen, the puzzle is completed and the foundation is solidified and strong...and not berated or made to be a failure ever.
Those things to me are what my instructors have had, some more than others, some less than others...and those that couldn't make my time astride with them enjoyable, educational and challenge me then we did not work together very long.
I can take a ton of criticism, constructive criticism, but not berated and belittled...there is a difference.
That for me is what I look for and need in my instructor/teacher..
More than ask questions I think taking a lesson and experiencing how the instructor relates to your abilities would be where and what I would do.
I can also watch a lesson with a skilled instructor and learn from the sidelines and not be embarrassed for the rider being taught and scrutinized.
:runninghorse2:


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## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

There is something about the saddle that doesn't seem right to me. It looks to big for you or the way it sits on the horse seems to be pushing you back. What type of saddle is it?

As HLG and other have said your hands are to high and reins to short.


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## keelan (Jan 5, 2010)

All of the above plus - soften the forearm, stretch up ( always think stretch up!) and RELAX! You are holding a lot of tension in your body. the softer and more elastic you can be the more you will move with the horse. It is like ballroom dancing. be sure to breathe (another source of tension and not breating changes your hormone scent), softly singing helps.


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