# Helmet importance - Why?



## 88Emerald88

Hello everyone.

I’m a 20 year-old college student, trying for veterinary school. I’ve been riding for 12 years now. I just want to talk about the importance of helmets. I heard of people riding without helmets (or with cowboy hats) and it drives me crazy. Here’s why:

 In 2006, I didn’t have my horse yet, and I was riding a school horse. A very, hard-mouthed school horse. I was having my lesson with my coach, and we were going straight for a jump stand. I tried to turn left; he decided that we were turning right. Of course, I fell. Head first on a jumping pole. My foot caught in the stirrup so the horse then dragged me for about 20 feet when my parents were finally able to stop him. My coach and I went inside for the rest of the lesson because she didn’t want me to continue. So we had the rest of the lesson as a theory class. Well, I was babbling about horses in the prehistoric times and how they came to have only one toe. My dad was looking at my helmet and he realized that my helmet was split open. Completely. They brought me to the hospital, worried about my condition. I was diagnosed with a minor concussion and broken neck vertebrae. It took 4 weeks for the vertebrae to heal. Do you realize, if I didn’t have that helmet, it would have been my head that would have split open? Until this day, I don’t remember what happened.

In 2009, I had my horse, and I was at my first ever eventing competition. My coach wasn’t there since all her other students were at another competition. So, I’m entering the jumping ring, really stressed. I start the course, everything was fine. Until, I came to an oxer with the poles set at an angle. My mare and I had never jumped that. So, of course, she jumped it higher. I wasn’t ready for that. So I fell after the jump. I lost consciousness. The officials called the paramedics and I was put on an ambulance. They put me on the backboard because they thought my mare might have stepped on my back. I had regained consciousness but I wasn’t aware of anything. At the hospital, they diagnosed me with another concussion. It took me 2 months to rehabilitate. And, to this day, I have trouble with my memory, my concentration, and my eyes are very sensitive to the light. Before, I was a top class student, able to remember everything. Now, I have trouble remembering why I went up the stairs. All that because I had 2 concussions. And I was wearing a helmet both times. Now, because of this, I will probably have trouble with my memory and my concentration for the rest of my life. So please, put a helmet on. It WILL save your life.

Thank you


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## waresbear

Every ride, every time! Amen to that!


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## tinyliny

Well, we horseforum folks have had a lot of threads on "do you wear a helmet and why do you or dont' you". It tends to raise the ire of a lot of folks.

However, if you wanted to, we could make this thread a "How my helmet probably saved my life" thread. Whaday think, guys?

I started riding 12 years ago, at 41 .. took a good fal at the canter in the arena and my helmet cracked in two, so hard that a listener thought I had broken a fence board, but the sound of it. "No, that was just my head in my helmet", I said. Was SOOOO sore the next day, but back in the saddle in a week.

My story isn't very dramatic, but I do wear my helmet, always.


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## Thyme

Ill admit I dont always wear a helmet on trail rides even though I know Fable could fall etc. >_>
However I ALWAYS ride with a helmet with anykind of schooling especially when jumping. I also always wear one when riding Rem even on lazy hacks, becuase he is a type A personality and green broke.
About a month ago, Rem buck 3 gigantic bucks, I was falling in front of him so I pushed back off his neck, however, he also took this moment to turn right, so I ending up not back in the saddle. My right foot got stuck in the iron as I fell off to the left, (my right foot and the iron come up over the saddle) luckly this caused me to get dragged off the side off him instead of getting pull under, however I landed completely on my head! Twice as he bucked again with me hanging before dragging. Luckly my boot slipped off and freed me.
I had a horrible headache the whole day and vomited, as well as seeing stars the rest of the day when ever I turned too fast, I cant imagina all that with out my helmet, luckly my helmet also came out of it okay lol, those are pricey, but worth it!


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## tinyliny

That is a horrible description of a horrible experience! Just about my worst nightmare' being dragged by the horse with foot caugth in stirrup!

if your helmet hit the ground with any force, it may have suffereed small cracks and now be not able to protect your brain as it would if fully without cracks. Please check it out and replace if necessary. How much is your brain worth?


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## waresbear

As I always say - "You ride with me, you wear a helmet cuz I ain't changing your depends or holding your sippy cup when you end up with a brain injury".


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## Thyme

Yea I havnt actually checked it inside, I put a new helmet on my christmas list


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Siiiiiiigh.........I never wear a helmet. I've been riding for almost 50 years and I've come off many times and cracked my head a few times. My trainer used to say, "Musta made ya **** near normal." and that was the end of that. I know they save lives, cognition and so on, and I have a lovely brand new Troxel that's never been out of the box. I just ....forget I even have it until one of these discussions comes up. 

So, for you young'uns out there, YES! Please wear your helmets! And if I ever fall off hard enough to need someone to change my Depends or hold my sippy cup, my husband had instructions to take me out back and shoot me.


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## VelvetsAB

I am tired of threads like these. 

If I don't want to wear a helmet, then I won't, no matter how many "horror" stories are told. 

I'm an adult, and can make my own decisions, thanks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses

AMEN!!! There's too many preachy holier-than-thou types that want to stir up trouble in these "helmet threads". They want to say I'm irresponsible for not wearing a helmet and I want to respond that I wouldn't swing a leg over half the ill-mannered dinks that are passed off as riding horses. I've had a few close calls but not many for the amount of horses and number of hours I've ridden. I guess it all comes down to "when it's your time, it's your time" there's not much that can be done about it. Nobody gets out of this life alive.


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## grayshell38

How many of the "Super Safety Club" pushing helmets also consistantly wear body protectors? If not, then there are no grounds to call people who choose not to wear helmets out, considering they, themselves, are not doing all they can to protect themselves. Just two cents from a person who is tired of being looked down on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joe4d

You should wear a helmet riding a horse, a seatbelt in a car, a helmet on a motorcycle, I wouldnt ever support laws forcing you to do it nor even bat an eye at people that choose to or dont. Which brings me to an interesting point. 
How many of the overly critical helmet people wear safety toe shoes/boots around horses ?
Broke toes are way more common than broke skulls.


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## 88Emerald88

My goal was NOT to judge people but to make them aware. And I'm sorry, but a broken toe is NOTHING compared to having a concussion. I think you guys don't understand. I will have repercussions of this for the REST OF MY LIFE. I will probably NOT be able to go to vet school. It IS your choice to put on a helmet or not. But, I'm just trying to make you realize that putting on a helmet is not a big deal.

Tinyliny, if you think that it is better, please change it. 

P.S.: Dressage top hats also fall in that cathegory.


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## bsms

I posted this thread in March:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/helmets-injuries-some-studies-long-81416/

I use a helmet about 90% of the time, but the preachiness of helmet fans drives me the other way.

Jumping horses, with a helmet, is much more likely to result in a serious head injury than riding flats without them. How much? Depending on the study, the answer is anywhere from 10-80 times more likely. Meanwhile, wearing a helmet reduces your chance of serious injury by around 50% during a fall.

Folks need to think of the total picture in risk management. If you jump, you accept your risk of serious head injury going up at least 1,000%, and maybe much more. Meanwhile, wearing a cowboy hat instead of a helmet increases your chance of serious injury by 100%. Who is living more dangerously?

Do I run around trying to stop folks from jumping? Nope. Do you see threads started by western riders attacking jumping as a sport? Nope. 

Riding in an English saddle is also associated with greater risk, although no one has tried to quantify it. Why? Less support when things go really wrong. 

But do you see threads from western riders attacking those who ride English as a bunch of crazy fools? Nope.

The worst fall I took hurt my back enough that I can feel it sitting here 3.5 years later. Fortunately, I was wearing a baseball cap! Who knows what would have happened without that layer of cotton!

Do you see why I don't like anecdotal evidence in these debates?


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## bsms

88Emerald88 said:


> ...So I fell after the jump...They put me on the backboard because they thought my mare might have stepped on my back...It took me 2 months to rehabilitate. And, to this day, I have trouble with my memory, my concentration, and my eyes are very sensitive to the light. Before, I was a top class student, able to remember everything. Now, I have trouble remembering why I went up the stairs. All that because I had 2 concussions. *And I was wearing a helmet both times.* Now, because of this, I will probably have trouble with my memory and my concentration for the rest of my life...


I'm very sorry for your injuries. Maybe someone in the jumping world should have told you how much more dangerous it is to jump with horses than to ride flats. But again, jumping while wearing a helmet is much more dangerous than riding flats in a cowboy hat.

If folks want to jump, they can. My daughter won't get that choice. Not as a child. But it sounds like you should be preaching the danger of jumping instead of the need for a helmet that you were wearing when you were badly hurt.


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## grayshell38

I love how my interjection of the use of body protectors gets ignored. You either put your all into safety, or you don't get to preach.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jinxremoving

grayshell38 said:


> I love how my interjection of the use of body protectors gets ignored. You either put your all into safety, or you don't get to preach.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's why I wrap myself in bubble wrap when I ride.

*pop*


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## 88Emerald88

Ok, you're not reading what I was saying. I'm not preaching, judging or whatever else you can think of. I am stating a fact that if I hadn't worn my helmet at that time, I would be dead now. People saying ''it's your time'' would that mean I should be dead at 15 years old? And, yes, jumping has a higher risk. But flats have a risk too. My first concussion was on flat. My second, on jumps. You can do whatever you like. But you can't deny the fact that wearing a helmet decreases your chances of serious injury. I posted this thread not to yell at people ''you should always wear a helmet!!!''. I posted it because it's a fact that I would be dead now. You can either take the risk or not. It's your choice. I'm not judging anything. But I like being aware of the dangers of things before doing them. So please, the hatters, stop it, you're going nowhere. You're criticizing me because I supposedly criticize you, which is NOT the case. Riding horses IS a dangerous sport. But you can reduce those risks by protecting yourself. I posted this thread for the younger kids that don't realize that it COULD happen to THEM.


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## tinyliny

88emerald88,

I think it's too late to change this thread title now. The cat's out of the bag, soto speak . People sure do get defensive, on one side or the other.


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## goneriding

It is about choice. Whether someone else agrees with your choice or not, as long as your choice isn't putting someone else in danger, you should have the right to choose.


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## Saddlebag

During a chat with a safety specialist he bro't up the topic of helmets. His concern was - would there be a greater instance of broken necks because of the thickness of helmets just above the base of the skull. As one falls, the head stops but the neck keeps going. Good point, which raises more confusion over the helmet issue.


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## Frankiee

i feel ounce and cracked my helment if i didnt have one on that would of been my head not getting on a horse without one now


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## bsms

Based on the studies I linked to, if you fall on your head, a helmet will cut serious injuries by about 50%. That is based on reduced injuries seen, which would include any problems caused BY the helmet.

How much overall risk they cut depends on the odds of your falling on your head, which is a common fall in jumping and an uncommon fall in flats. Here is how your overall risk reduction would work, if the first number is the chance of the fall, and the last number is the overall risk reduction due to wearing a helmet:

50% cut 50% = 25% overall
10% cut 50% = 5% overall
1% cut 50% = 0.5% overall
0.1% cut 50% = 0.05% overall

Thus a helmet is very important if the risk of falling is high, and much less important as the risk of falling on your head goes down. I'd do most anything to cut my risk by 25%. I'm a lot less concerned about dropping my risk by 0.05%.


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## THN

bsms said:


> Thus a helmet is very important if the risk of falling is high, and much less important as the risk of falling on your head goes down. I'd do most anything to cut my risk by 25%. I'm a lot less concerned about dropping my risk by 0.05%.


Every adult (sorry kids it's your parents desision) should have a right to choose to wear or not wear a helmet. Though before making that choice i think they should be well informed of the risks involved. It is their responsibility to seek out the information. It doesn't seem to me that the OPs goal was to judge those who don't wear helmets but to share her experience and her reasoning as to why she wears one. Though there may have been a little undertone of judgment i think it was rather unintentional.

Here is when i wear a helmet:
-Sports (racing, jumping, polo, etc)
-Green Horse (if i don't know how a horse will react to some situations)
-Training (anything new to the horse i usually have a helmet)
-Rough Terrain ( bad footing, lots of low limbs)
-"new" horse (unpredictable)

I accept the risk involved with not always wearing a helmet and don't expect society to wipe my butt or hold my sippy cup if it comes to that.

If i am on someone else's horse or someone else's property i follow their rules.


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## jimmy

VelvetsAB said:


> I am tired of threads like these.
> 
> If I don't want to wear a helmet, then I won't, no matter how many "horror" stories are told.
> 
> I'm an adult, and can make my own decisions, thanks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 thats on the ball,its down to personal responsibility,why worry about what the next person is doing,if your happy wearing a helmet good luck to you,by the same measure if you don,t wear one good luck to you as well


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## Cowgirls Boots

To each there own. But personally I'd rather die doing something I love and if it's meant to be its meant to be.


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## Tennessee

I've worn a helmet a total of three times in my entire life of riding (and I started riding when I was three...I'm seventeen now). I've gone through tons of falls, three concussions, many broken bones, and a few near death accidents. 

I'm not going to wear one. Never again.


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## Arksly

Every time that I've fallen off, it's been while I'm doing flat work. Never once while jumping. 

Times are changing and I'm fairly certain that wearing helmets will become as normal as wearing a seatbelt. I'm sure that there were many people who thought it was a dumb idea to wear a seatbelt at first, but now almost everyone does it. 

The argument, "If you want to preach about wearing helmets you better wear safety vests too." doesn't make much sense to me. That's like saying, "If you tell people to wear seat belts in a car, you should have all of the equipment that a Nascar driver does." Yes, Nascar is more dangerous than every day driving but jumping is more dangerous than riding on the flat is. Is everyone going to stop racing cars/jumping. No. 

People love to do things that are really dangerous so why not try to make it a bit safer? Even if that means by 0.05% .

Sorry if that doesn't make any sense. I began rambling.


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## lubylol

I don't understand why some people are taking offense to this. I love my helmet <3 it has saved me so many times from bad falls lol. I think it's quite nifty how helmets are, me and my friends always compare them lol.

Anyways, I think it's an adults call on wearing a helmet. No one can force someone over the age to wear one, unless they are on someone else's property, or on someone else's horse. 

As for the vest comment, I think all jumpers should wear them, even if your just schooling. I have fallen off so many times while jumping and I wished I was wearing a vest.

I've only ridden one time without a helmet and that was when my friend was with me and we rode double on Cowboy and I only had one helmet and gave it to her. I even cantered Cowboy without a helmet and wow it felt awesome, but it was in the back of my mind that he could have bolted or spooked and I could have fell.

Anyways, yes I think helmets save lives, no I wouldn't force anyone if I just saw them. Helmets, and seatbelts are all personal choices, but if you choose not to wear them you have to face the consequences. Helmet-injury, seatbelt-ticket (or injury)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses

lubylol said:


> * I have fallen off so many times while jumping* and I wished I was wearing a vest.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
This is what you should focus on and fix. Christopher Reeves was wearing a helmet and vest and still ended up a quadraplegic.


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## Haylee

Eh, I dont do helmets. I like the rush of knowing I could die i guess, idk. I know riding is a dangerous sport, and I like to feel the wind in my hair anyway. I hate helmets. Yes, they are important, but I think its really riders choice. I Hate wearing them. Ive fallen numerous times, been dragged, etc. If I was afraid I wouldn't do it. Its the risk you take, and I feel thats half the fun. If i happened to die from a fall... at least Id die happy. Thats my thought anyway.


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## bsms

kevinshorses said:


> This is what you should focus on and fix. Christopher Reeves was wearing a helmet and vest and still ended up a quadraplegic.


The OP was injured twice while wearing a helmet.

This was the study that interested me the most. It involved experienced riders in eventing. "Underlining" is mine.

"USCTA [now called The United States Equestrian Federation (USEF)] Accident Statistics for 1990 and 1991

...Twenty percent of injuries involved the head and face. Of these about half (15) involved a concussion or possible concussion and another ten involved a "blow to the head" but further comments indicated the rider was "okay" and without concussion. Many times the rider was able to complete the event. The type of headgear usually was not specified, but in 2 incidents it was noted SEI headgear might have prevented a more serious injury. The USCTA did not mandate ASTM/SEI headgear until 1991 and then rescinded this mandate later in the season. The number of head injuries was slightly higher in 1991. Five riders were kicked in the head. Three were unmounted. Of those mounted and falling off, both were noted to be kicked below the helmet but on the head. Facial injuries included fractured jaws (3), lip injuries (5), fractured nose (4), bloody nose (3), chipped or lost tooth (2), facial lacerations (4) fractured cheekbone (1), and lacerations inside the mouth (1). Some of these injuries were sustained by the same rider and given in detail here whereas in the chart are listed only once (e.g., all facial injuries combined for that rider as "one" injury.) ...

...The place where most accidents occurred was on cross country. Cross country involves jumping fixed obstacles at speed. If a horse hits one of these obstacles, either the rider or horse and rider will fall. The second most common area was either stadium or other unspecified. Warmup areas for the jumping phases were the next most likely place for an injury. *It comes as no surprise the jumping phases accounted for 86% of the injuries. Dressage accounted for only 1% and the stable area and other accounted for 12%, again indicating the surprisingly large number of unmounted injuries*...

...The total percentage of injuries for all riders was 0.36% or about 4 per 1000 riders. Since the average rider shows at more than 4 events per year the number above 1 per 1000 rides. Assuming 6 rides per year, there are about 2 injuries per 100 rides per year.

The number of injuries at the Advanced or Olympic level is small, only 8 in two years. This, however, amounted to 1.3% of the competitors at this level or about 5 times that of the lowest or novice level. The denominators of the two divisions are quite different with 39 times more starters at novice than at advanced! A small difference in the number of injuries in the advanced group would make a huge difference in the percentage. Riders at the upper level have more spectators watching them, perhaps adding to a higher level of incident reports and medical attention than at the lower levels. Also, at Advanced there maybe up to 45 jumping efforts on cross country and steeplechase and 25 on stadium for a maximum of 60 jumping efforts on cross country and steeplechase. In novice there are only 12 to 20 jumping efforts allowed on cross country and 8 to 12 on stadium. At Advanced, the maximum number of jumping efforts is often used, whereas, at Novice it is not. Therefore, an advanced competitor may jump three times the number of fences at greater height and faster speed than a novice would jump. Obviously, the risk of injury increases with the number of jumping efforts not to mention the height and speed at which they are jumped. It should also be noted that one rider accounted for 25% of the incident reports at Advanced. Of the Advanced injuries, all were from falls on cross country."

American Medical Equestrian Associaton

For 2008:

-------------------
Number of Recorded Rider Falls on Cross-Country............................518
Number of Mandatory Retirements (MR = fall of horse)......................65
Total Number of Falls.................................................................583

Number of Recorded Injuries at Cross-Country Fences.....................101
Rider Fatalities............................................................................0
Chances of a fall per # starters..............................................1 in 71 

Injuries include bruises, winded, concussions, broken bones

In 2008, there were 17 injury reports submitted for falls taking place on the flat and not related to jumping a fence. There were a total of three serious injuries requiring overnight, or longer, stays in hospital which amounts to .007 percent of all starters or 1 per 13,764 starters.

http://cp.useventing.com/resources/files/docs/2008 USEA Safety Review.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------

Please notice that the 2008 falls on the flats do not distinguish what event they were participating in, so it is unknown if they were riding using the more forward position associated with jumping.

Also, remember that riding in the forward position and jumping is associated with head injuries, while riding in a deeper seated position normally results in back injuries. There is no attempt to distinguish in these statistics between a back or head injury. All the jumping included helmets.

So the falls involving jumping an obstacle totaled 583, while riding flats (but unknown if using a forward or deep seat) totaled 17. Unknown is the percentage of head injuries in each category.

So when someone who supports jumping as a sport complains that western riders wear cowboy hats...why yes, most western riders do. In return, western riders do not hurl their horses over large obstacles at high speed. And based on the 2008 information from eventing, it seems highly likely that a western rider wearing a cowboy hat is far safer than a jumper wearing a helmet.

*Folks need to stop ignoring the elephant in the living room. If you want to greatly improve the safety of a child, don't allow them to jump their horse.*

And I think those who jump should stop lecturing western riders, and admit that *they* are the ones who live dangerously.


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## Tennessee

^^I don't understand why you bring up the exact same facts and the exact same off-topic arguement in every single helmet debate we have. We get it. Jumping is dangerous. So what? Being around horses in general is dangerous.


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## bsms

Tennessee said:


> ^^I don't understand why you bring up the exact same facts and the exact same off-topic arguement in every single helmet debate we have. We get it. Jumping is dangerous...


1 - Most folks have heard ad nauseum about the 'dangers' of riding without a helmet, yet that doesn't prevent a slew of "OMG! You MUST wear a helmet!" threads.

2 - Most people do NOT know how dangerous jumping is.

How many parents would sign their kids up for jumping if told that the risk of serious injury or death goes up 30-40 fold when jumping?



Tennessee said:


> ...So what? Being around horses in general is dangerous.


Well, JUMPING with horses is 30-40 times more dangerous. That is a 3,000-4,000% increase in danger. Makes "You can reduce your risk by 50%" seem kind of pathetic to me.

And yes, I think discussing *danger* is completely relevant in a thread about how to control the risks of riding. :shock:

To repeat:

"*It comes as no surprise the jumping phases accounted for 86% of the injuries. Dressage accounted for only 1% and the stable area and other accounted for 12%, again indicating the surprisingly large number of unmounted injuries*..."

86:1. That is masked in later statistics, since they now report, not on falls in dressage, but on falls "taking place on the flat and not related to jumping a fence". But the later statistics still have it 583:17 (34:1), and some of those 17 probably involve riding in a jump saddle and forward seat.

But Hey! Strap on a helmet Superman, and go jump! Your helmet will save you...

*NOT!*


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## kevinshorses

bsms : I still don't understand why you must always cite relevent research and facts when argueing an issue. When everyone else is relying on personal anectdotes and emotion it is unfair and even a little rude to use so many cold, hard facts.


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## Dresden

kevinshorses said:


> This is what you should focus on and fix. Christopher Reeves was wearing a helmet and vest and still ended up a quadraplegic.


He then became an advocate for helmet awareness and would likely have been dead(according to an article I read, my phone won't let me post links) if not for the helmet. 

Its personal choice. Wear a helmet if you want, don't if you don't want to. I don't understand why this subject gets debated or how someone could be anti helmet. That's like being anti seatbelt. Just because you choose not to wear one, who cares if other people do and vice versa.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lubylol

Agreed Dresden. And this thread wasn't made to make you wear a helmet, only to be aware of the dangers if you do not wear one, and what will happen if you don't
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms

Who is at greatest risk of breaking their noggin?






































OK, that last one is a bit unfair...:shock:

All pictures pulled from the world wide web. I don't know any of them.


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## bsms

lubylol said:


> Agreed Dresden. And this thread wasn't made to make you wear a helmet, only to be aware of the dangers if you do not wear one, and what will happen if you don't
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No one knows what WILL happen. Someone could ride 1000 jumps and not fall, or ride a 'bombproof' pony and have their skull crushed. 

However, statistically, the western rider in a cowboy hat has about 2% of the chance of falling that a jumper wearing a helmet has. And I've never met a western rider who gives lectures on the dangers of jumping, unless first given a lecture to on the dangers of cowboy hats.


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## Dresden

Have you seen barrel races? And the way some of those horses behave? I've seen some ill trained gaming horses acting quite stupid at the gate. I've seen them slide into barrels and kids fall off(sometimes onto the barrels). There are some "western" activities that seem fairly dangerous as well. And most often done in a cowboy hat. Where in your statistics do those "western" riders fall? 

I don't want to argue. Im just genuinely curious since you are lumping western together as though its all trails or pleasure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tennessee

Dresden said:


> Have you seen barrel races? And the way some of those horses behave? I've seen some ill trained gaming horses acting quite stupid at the gate. I've seen them slide into barrels and kids fall off(sometimes onto the barrels). There are some "western" activities that seem fairly dangerous as well. And most often done in a cowboy hat. Where in your statistics do those "western" riders fall?
> 
> I don't want to argue. Im just genuinely curious since you are lumping western together as though its all trails or pleasure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
There is absolutely no point in arguing with him about this. Instead of talking about actual helmets (which is what the thread about anyways) he goes off on this hissy about how jumping is more dangerous than any other equestrian sport. Which I'll agree, it's awfully dangerous, but there are other sports that are dangerous as well. I agree with you about barrel racing. I'm a barrel racer myself. I've seen and had my own falls, and some of them were not pretty. And I don't know about y'all, but I think being a jockey in a horse race is pretty risky, too.


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## bsms

Dresden said:


> ...Where in your statistics do those "western" riders fall?
> 
> I don't want to argue. Im just genuinely curious since you are lumping western together as though its all trails or pleasure.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What I could find includes these:

"With regard to admission to spinal units for horse riding accidents, there are far more lumbar and thoracic injuries than cervical in contrast to all other sporting injuries (Table 12) which are almost entirely cervical injuries, indicating that there are different mechanisms involved.17 In all other sporting injuries where the head leads it is almost inevitable that the cervical spine, which is more vulnerable, will be fractured rather than the lumbar or thoracic spine. The only rugby injury in which the thoracic spine was involved was when a drunken rugby player fell downstairs after a game. This would be in keeping with the speculation that in horse riding accidents there are two methods of riding: either jockey style (cross country position) with the head forward, where the rider would be more likely to sustain a cervical injury accompanied inevitably by a head injury, and classical style where the head is held high and the rider would be likely to fall on to the buttocks.8...

...Horse riding is a dangerous sport. There has been an increase in spinal cord injury admissions due to horse riding. Women riders are more likely to be admitted with serious injury but there are more women riding and the number of accidents to female riders is probably in proportion to the total number of women riders. Lumbar and thoracic fractures are much more common than cervical fractures, the likelihood being that this is due to fall on the buttocks or being thrown against obstructions. The injuries are more likely to occur in point to point and jumping than in flat racing or in social riding. Figures about hunting are not available and are pure speculation."

Spinal injuries resulting from horse riding accidents

From other studies at the same link:

"*JUSTIN SPORTSMEDICINE PROGRAM* records examinations for possible injuries at pro rodeo events. Head/face injuries make-up 4.4% and cervical spine 5.8% of the total injuries."

"*NATIONAL PARK SERVICE* horse related figures show that employees have 4.2% head, 5% face, and 1.7% neck injuries while visitors have 8% head, 4.4% face, and no neck injuries."

"Yosemite National Park Curry Company conducts supervised recreational horseback rides for visitors. The records of incidences involving visitors and horses were reviewed for the last four years. All incidences were reported whether or not an injury occurred. During the last two of these years, the horseback riders 12 years and under were required to wear ASTM SEI protective helmets when riding and adults were offered the helmets and signed a release form before the ride. 

There were 225 incidences reported in the four years from 1989-1992 from 214,736 riders who rode a horse 428,330 hours for 1 incidence for every 1048 riders, and one incidence for every for every 1904 hours of riding. Of the 225 incidences, the treatment was known in 217. Of the known treatment, 46.1% were treated at the Clinic at the Park; 45.6% required no treatment. 

There were 279 areas of injury; 11 areas were unknown, 20 had no injuries. The head was the third most frequent injured area at 17.5% (34) of the total accidents with known injuries (194), face sixth with 10.3% (20), neck eleventh with 7 (3.6%) and Mouth/dental much lower with 1 (0.5%). The head, face, neck, mouth/dental make up almost one third of the total injuries." 

I also found this:

" The range and type of injuries typically sustained by Rodeo Cowboys is broad. A comprehensive 20-year study of rodeo injuries completed in 2000 provided some interesting statistics: of the over 1,300 rodeos attended by the JSP and the close to 7,000 performances held during the 20-year period, close to 8,800 athletes (13.98%) of 62,000 evaluated were treated for minor injuries, while close to 900 (10.17%) were treated for major injuries that required a trip to the hospital. Of those injuries, injuries to the head and face were most common, followed by knee, shoulder and spine injuries. The most dangerous events? Bullriding (you knew it!), causing over 50% of the injuries, followed by Bareback Riding and Saddle Bronc Riding. 

The JSP admits that there is somewhat of a dilemma about how to improve safety within the sport. These days just about every cowboy in the bucking events wears a Kevlar-lined vest to prevent injury to the back and chest should he get kicked while he’s down, but head protection is another matter. You will see some cowboys wearing field hockey-type helmets in the bucking events, but JSP founder Dr. Evans feels they could be as detrimental as they are helpful: the rider’s visibility is limited, and the added weight could promote neck injury as his head is whipped back and forth as he rides. As for protection from being stepped on or kicked? “They did a physics study once,” he tells me, “where they calculated the amount of force a 1,800-lb bull would exert over a 6” diameter circle (the size of his hoof) as it falls from a distance of a few feet…”

"...and they called it RODEO"

A 20 year study involving 1,300 rodeos had 900 injuries resulting in a trip to the hospital. "Bullriding (you knew it!), causing over 50% of the injuries, followed by Bareback Riding and Saddle Bronc Riding."

But those are rather obviously high risk activities. 

I also found this:

"The events with the most injuries remained bull riding, bareback bronc and saddle bronc riding in that order over the 15 years. Rodeo clowns/bullfighters were, as could be expected, the most frequently injured non-contestants (77.4%). When combined with rodeo events, clowns and bullfighters, which account for less that 1% of the professional rodeo membership, account for almost 10% of the injuries received. 

The most injured sites were constant during the 15 year period with the spine, knee and shoulder ranking, 1,2,3. However, concussion remained the most frequent major injury from 1981 to 1995. The concussion injury rate increased from 2.3% in 1981-1985 to 3.5% in 1991-1995 while the injury rate for all other major injuries declined from 8.2% to 4.4%." 

new

Their list had head & neck injuries at around 6% of the total, so that would mean 94% of rodeo injuries are not to the head area. I'm surprised at that, since the statistics include riding bulls and broncos.

This document included these statistics:

"TABLE 2: RODEO EVENTS IN WHICH ATHLETES WERE INJURED

Bull riding has been the event in which most athletes were injured every year since MSMS began covering rodeos in 1981. Since 1990, there have been only three years (1991, 1994 & 2002) in which bull riding injuries accounted for less than 50% of the total injuries for all events. Bareback riding has maintained its position as the event with the second largest number of injuries and has also maintained its percentage of athletes injured (23.26%). Saddle bronc riding has consistently been third on the injury list although the percent of injuries in relation to the total has fluctuated from 18.7% in 1981-85 to a low of 13.8% during the 1996-2000 period, to 15.6% during the current 2001-2005 period. 

Figure 1 - Bull riding, bareback bronc riding and saddle bronc riding clearly dominated the events in which contestants were likely to be injured from 1981-2005.

Figure 2 - *Some 87.6% of all rodeo injuries occurred in the events of bull riding, bareback bronc riding and saddle bronc riding during the period 1981-2005*."

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNH8g5Tye9ijq7aqS-ZFgnh3aB5b6w&cad=rja

"Meyers et al. reported that 92% of all injuries in collegiate rodeo occurred in roughstock and steer wrestling events. They contended that collegiate rodeo athletes faced an 89% potential for injury per season...

...The anatomical sites of injury, like causes, are many. However, certain areas appear to be more predisposed to injury because of the nature of the sport. Over a 15-year period (1981-1995) the anatomical site most susceptible to injury was the spine (i.e., lumbar, cervical and thoracic), followed by the knee and shoulder respectively (Justin, 1996). This finding substantiates earlier research conducted by Meyers et al. (1990), which reported the incidence of upper body injuries. Concussion was reported to be the most frequent major injury, which has increased since the first five years (2.3% in 1981-1985 to 3.5% in 1991-1995) of the Justin study...

...Saddle Bronc Riding

This is perhaps the one event most individuals have seen portrayed in Western movies. Common injuries in this event are to the knee, lumbar area of the lower back, shoulder, thigh/ groin area and ankle. It is evident that anatomical injury sites among roughstock event competitors are often similar due to commonalities within the events.

Lower back trauma in roughstock events may be attributed to leg placement and spurring techniques required in competition (Fredriksson, 1985; Meyers et al., 1990). Roughstock competitors also incur minor injuries when they are bucked off of mounts and land on an outstretched arm, or the back of the neck (Fredriksson, 1985; Griffin et al., 1989).

Steer Wrestling

Frequent injury sites in steer wrestling are the knee and ankle. Injuries to these sites are likely to occur when the cowboy dismounts from his horse while simultaneously stopping the animal to wrestle it to the ground. During the wrestling phase of the activity the shoulders, lumbar and cervical areas of the spine are common sites of injury.

Calf Roping

In calf roping injuries to the thigh/groin area are frequently sustained when dismounting, while the knee, shoulder and ankle are at risk during the tie. Lower back injuries are often sustained when the cowboy is flanking the calf.

Steer Roping

Steer roping is very similar to calf roping. However, in this event there is no particular pattern of injury detectable.

Team Roping

Consistent with other timed events, team roping tends to have comparatively low injury rates. In this event, as with calf and steer roping, the most likely injuries are those associated with riding the fast moving, nimble, and quick turning horse."

Rodeo Injuries: An Examination of Risk Factors | Journal of Sport Behavior | Find Articles

--------------------------------------------------------------

I conclude from these that the risk of head injury while jumping greatly exceeds that of normal western riding. Most western riding results in damage to the back, not the head. And the pictures I posted earlier makes the reason pretty obvious.


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## bsms

Tennessee said:


> There is absolutely no point in arguing with him about this. Instead of talking about actual helmets (which is what the thread about anyways) he goes off on this hissy about how jumping is more dangerous than any other equestrian sport...


From the OP:

"I just want to talk about the importance of helmets. I heard of people riding without helmets (or with cowboy hats) and it drives me crazy." 

Well, someone wearing a cowboy hat while jumping probably OUGHT to drive her crazy. Someone riding a cowboy hat elsewhere, maybe not.

And yes, I think it is *stupid* to discuss risk without applying it to the activity being performed.


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## bubba13

Whenever I hear of a Western rider getting injured or killed in a non-helmet wearing scenario, it's because their horse slipped and fell on them. Which, unfortunately, is not something you can predict or prevent in any discipline. Maybe there's a rough patch of ground in the perfectly groomed arena where you're cantering. Maybe your horse spooks and tips over (I've had that happen). Maybe it's a hotter horse that rears and falls over backwards (I've known of two young girls who died that way). Maybe the ground gives way on a trail, or your horse steps on just the right rock that hurts its hoof and makes it collapse, or maybe your horse had a soundness issue (like navicular) to begin with and is prone to stumbling, or maybe you've got a freak scenario, a la Hickstead, where the horse just falls over and dies on you.

Point being, well, you just never know.


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## pintophile

I have never understood why people get so worked up over the helmet debate. If someone doesn't want to wear a helmet, that is the decision made by themselves and/or their families, and I highly doubt that hearing repeated tales of "If I hadn't had a helmet, I would have DIED :shock:" is going to convince them to wear one. If I have learned anything from life, it's that you don't win people over by calling them crazy and foolish and delusional for not conforming to your ideals. Threads like this don't convince non helmet wearers to suddenly start wearing one.

What is everyone trying to convince me of? I really don't understand what the issue is. Are you really telling me you're concerned for my safety? If you were seriously concerned for my safety, you would be telling me to wear a padded vest when I ride, you'd be telling me to never go out riding alone and never on rough trails, to never get on green or problem horses, to never jump, never gallop, never ride bareback, and never to get on a horse in the first place.

Sometimes stuff happens, regardless of how prepared you are. And while it's good to lessen the risks as much as you can, I don't see the point in being a fanatical advocate of helmets, especially because very few people take kindly to having the helmet subject shoved in their face. I don't call anyone stupid or idiotic for wearing a helmet. I would appreciate the same respect, even if my choice is a different one than yours.


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## Amber and Mac

I'd rather fall off and smash my head into the dirt or into a barrel than fall off and smash my head into a Wooden pole (Assuming the jumping poles are wooden..). I think my head would just deflect off the barrel (plastic) than off a wooden pole. 

I think wearing a helmet is the riders decision. I don't wear helmets while training but I _have_ to wear them at shows. If they weren't required would I still be wearing one? No. 

And uh.. Falling off with a helmet compared to falling off with no helmet..I think falling off with no helmet wins. For me anyway. I've had more serious injuries while wearing a helmet...But maybe it's just me and my silly head bouncing off the inside of my helmet. Ouch.


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## Cat

Saddlebag said:


> During a chat with a safety specialist he bro't up the topic of helmets. His concern was - would there be a greater instance of broken necks because of the thickness of helmets just above the base of the skull. As one falls, the head stops but the neck keeps going. Good point, which raises more confusion over the helmet issue.


I don't know about broken necks, but maybe more neck injuries. I do wear a helmet about 90% of the time. The last time I fell it was sort of a rolling shoulder to back landing. Nothing major really and I wasn't in pain anywhere and probably would have had no injuries at all without my helmet. But the helmet did leave my neck sore and a bruise from one side to the other where the base of the helmet dug into my neck.


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## reveriesgirly

I think not wearing a helmet just looks un professional.


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## Haylee

Ive never injured my head in a fall... Ive broken my collar bone, dislocated my knee, sprained my ankle, broke my foot, twisted my back, pulled the tendons in my shoulder, bruised my tush(hehe,) sprained my thumb, cracked my rib, and broke my finger and my toe... I think people should wear full-body armor when riding instead of just a helmet if there worried about getting hurt. But I love every second of riding, from the saddle to the ground. If you fall you'll get hurt... pretty much inevitable. Im not going to wear a helmet and have it weigh me down when it really wont even help me all that much anyway. When I used to jump I wore a helmet and I hated it... thats when I broke my collar bone FYI, helmet didnt help with that. Thats why I like western sooo much more.


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## Cinder

> But maybe it's just me and my silly head bouncing off the inside of my helmet. Ouch.


I'm thinking that was an ill-fitted helmet on you there. Helmets are awesome but you have to have them fit right on your head or else they're not going to do much of anything.

My question here is why some people seem to have so many issues with wearing helmets? The newer ones aren't uncomfortable to wear and have many different designs and colors if you don't like how a paticular helmet looks. Even if wearing a helmet KILLS you for some reason or you HATE with a passion how every single one looks, wearing a helmet is really not that difficult. Trust me, I manage to wear one EVERY time I ride. Even on trail rides. 

Knowing how easy helmets are to wear, why would you make the choice not to wear one? I have heard so many adults saying their helmet saved their life. 

To those saying people who don't wear vests shouldn't tell people to wear helmets, that doesn't make a lot of sense. I do wear a helmet, so I practice what I preach there. But I don't wear a vest, so I would never tell anyone that they should wear one. Besides, I thought vests were more for higher levels of jumping and cross-country. Helmets should be worn every discipline every time you ride. The one ride you don't wear one might be the ride something happens and you end up in a hospital paralyzed. 

And to those who choose not to wear a helmet, I understand that it is totally your decision. But our sport is dangerous in the first place, why say "to heck with it" and not wear a helmet?

And no, I'm not one of those people who are like "oh my goodness leaves are dangerous we better get rid of them" either. I jump, ride bareback, and have fallen off before and in no way do I think that any part of our sport should be gotten rid of because it's not safe. No sport is really safe, that's why it's called a SPORT and not "sissy time for wussies" :lol:.


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## bsms

Cinder said:


> ...My question here is why some people seem to have so many issues with wearing helmets? ...Helmets should be worn every discipline every time you ride. The one ride you don't wear one might be the ride something happens and you end up in a hospital paralyzed.
> 
> And to those who choose not to wear a helmet, I understand that it is totally your decision. But our sport is dangerous in the first place, why say "to heck with it" and not wear a helmet?...


Speaking for myself, I have no objections to helmets. I wear one about 90% of the time, and own one horse that I will probably never try to ride without one. For most pleasure riding, I see no downside.

However, I don't like people pushing them as necessary gear, and suggesting folks who wear cowboy hats are stupid. (OP: "I heard of people riding without helmets (or with cowboy hats) and it drives me crazy.") Because like any other safety gear, it is only one part of the picture.

When people who jump tell western riders they need to wear a helmet, they are saying, "I'm old enough and mature enough to accept a 50X increased risk of serious head injury than what you have because jumping is fun, but you need to wear a helmet for safety." I find that offensive.

However, I also strongly believe that most jumpers have no idea how much greater their risk is. "Informed consent" must include "informed", and I doubt many release forms for jumping advise parents of potential students that jumping is 50 times more dangerous than dressage or western riding. Jumpers are much more likely to fall, and their falls are much more likely to involve the head. And no helmet reduces that risk down even as low as 10X the risk of riding flats in a cowboy hat.

Yes, every time you ride the flats could be the day a helmet would save you. But the days you jump, you are 50X more likely to find a helmet is not enough to protect you.

If you jump because it is fun, with a 50X increased risk, why can't a western rider wear a cowboy hat because it is fun, with a 2X risk? Why would a western rider be stupid for liking the feel of the wind, but a jumper be smart for liking the feel of jumping with horses?

To rephrase your post:



Old Fart bsms said:


> ...And to those who jump, I understand that it is totally your decision. But our sport is dangerous in the first place, why say "to heck with it" and jump?...


I am not anti-jumping either, but I was stunned when I read the statistics about how much more dangerous it is. That danger should be knowingly accepted or rejected by an adult - as should use of helmets.


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## DuffyDuck

Here if you're over the age of 17, its your choice to wear a helmet. If you have an accident and injure yourself without helmet, insurance don't cover you.

I rode in my old yard in a hat all the time. I had an accident, one where someone purposely spooked my horse, and I shot under a fence and my hip dislocated and my helmet cracked in two. Be glad to know the woman went under investigation and was found guilty of that and numerous things.

However at my new yard, I didn't bother with my old man, riding in or out, ever..
Now, with Duffy, I wear one all the time. 

I do think its your choice, and its your own problem if you come off, however I personally feel there should be an age on when you can make that decision, like seatbelts in a car. Say, 16 up. You don't want to wear a hat, your decision.

Just my penniesworth


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## bsms

DuffyDuck said:


> ...I personally feel there should be an age on when you can make that decision, like seatbelts in a car. Say, 16 up. You don't want to wear a hat, your decision.
> 
> Just my penniesworth


Agreed. My daughter is barely 14. I decided she wears a helmet. No helmet, no ride. My horse, my rules. When she is an adult, she will be welcome to decide for herself.


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## DuffyDuck

bsms said:


> Agreed. My daughter is barely 14. I decided she wears a helmet. No helmet, no ride. My horse, my rules. When she is an adult, she will be welcome to decide for herself.


 
Yep.
Well, anyone who rides my horse gets on it with a helmet, even my trainer, I refuse to let them on without a helmet, but thats my horse, not theirs. I forked out a fortune to replace my mum's ancient hat so she could wear it riding Duffy- better safe than sorry, she is nearly 50 and bumps are harder!

I know I would prefer to ride without a hat, no sweaty head and gunky hair, but its a risk I'm not willing to take with a horse that I barely know yet.


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## 88Emerald88

Oh wow, is it really just because of that ("I heard of people riding without helmets (or with cowboy hats) and it drives me crazy.") that people are going crazy? I meant ''It drives me crazy with worry.'' English isn't my first language. Sorry for the ambiguity. I agree it's the rider's choice. My story was not targeting adult, but teenagers. If I can convince only one person to put a helmet on, I'll be happy.


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## VelvetsAB

reveriesgirly said:


> I think not wearing a helmet just looks un professional.


_How does wearing a helmet effect the persons level of professionalism?_

_A helmet does not make you a better rider. _


_No offense to any western riders that wear a helmet, but if I was going to a western show, I think a cowboy hat completes the look, compared to a helmet. I would actually expect that wearing the helmet makes you stand out, so the judge might be looking at you more often, or remember you more clearly, then if you blended in with a cowboy hat. _

_But, just to make it clear (again), I could care less if someone wears or doesn't wear a helmet. That is THEIR own personal choice, not mine to make it for them._

_And you know what? I have had a helmet protect my head a few times, but if there was a choice to not wear a helmet at my barn, I would be the helmetless one. _

_I ride hunters, so I am actively jumping. However, I have never come off WHILE jumping. Before and after a fence, yeah sure...but never over the fence._



_I request this thread be closed. Helmet threads never seem to go over well, and this one seems to be starting to derail off the tracks._


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## bsms

88, I think the number of "OMG! Western riders are sooo STUPID! They don't wear helmets!" threads has made some of us rather sensitive. That is particularly true when the poster is a jumper, because jumping involves a lot of additional risk. The rider accepts the risk in exchange for the fun, and most western riders are fine with that - as long as we don't get lectured for the fun of riding without a helmet.

My wife just took her first lesson/ride in 2 years. Calm horse, round pen, very experienced western instructor...and she wore a helmet. I wear one about 90% of the time.

However, if I can't find my helmet, that doesn't stop me from riding a horse I know in a reasonable environment. An English saddle is not as 'safe' as a western one, but I enjoy riding English sometimes. But not on a horse I don't trust. Not with my limited riding ability. And if I want to learn a new skill, I'll probably start with either a western or Australian saddle.

I hope I didn't offend anyone. I just want folks to look at the total picture, and decide for themselves (or for their kids) what level of risk they are willing to accept. Equipment (bit/bitless, saddle, helmet) is one part. The horse, riding style, and terrain are other parts.


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## DuffyDuck

VelvetsAB said:


> _I request this thread be closed. Helmet threads never seem to go over well, and this one seems to be starting to derail off the tracks._



Actually, I think this thread has been quite informative, mods are part of it too. It doesn't seem off the rails at all, people are giving reasons as to why, and why not, but the general theme seems to be the same.

If you're an adult, your choice. You're aware of the dangers of riding a flight animal, however you may feel so at home its second nature. Either way, I'm enjoying reading how passionate people feel about wearing hats and why, or not wearing hats and why.


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## Cinder

bsms, I do not think Western riders in general are stupid. I used to be a Western rider. It is also Dressage riders were riding without a helmet used to be (and still kind of is) the expected thing. I think they ride with top hats generally but I may be wrong.


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## donovan

In most parts of south australia it is an offene not to wear a helmet on a horse. only once in my 5 years of riding i have not worn a helmet and it was only for 5 mins


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## Arksly

To be honest, I think if they did make it a law that everyone had to wear a helmet while riding a horse (and it was enforced) at first many people would be against it and still not wear them. But as time goes on, people would eventually just accept it. Just like wearing seat belts or a helmet when riding a motorcycle. People used to never do it, but now it's widely accepted.

Now, I don't think that's going to happen as the police have enough on their hands to look out for that are much more important than someone riding their horse without a helmet on, but just think about it that way.

Another thing, I think that in the future (next 20 years maybe) that there will be a lot more adults riding with helmets. Why? Because I don't think I've met anyone under the age of 18 that rides regularly without a helmet. Once they grow up, they'll be so used to wearing one that they won't really care. I've been riding for almost 9 years now and have only sat on a horse without a helmet twice (pony rides don't count) and each time I didn't feel comfortable at all. Naked almost.


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## Klassic Superstar

I just want to say I always wear a helmet, always have. My best friend was killed even wearing a helmet, she was had her whole life in front of married only 6 months, (age 23) and was in a lesson with her trainer and her horse for whatever reason started to act up after just standing still 5 feet away from the trainer and before you could say Woah her horse reared hitting her in the head, she fell off knocked out cold and she was taken to the hospital and two weeks later after not coming out of a coma she was taken off her ventilator and died. She was a pony club instructor and rode all her life, fluke accident! Knowing that could happen so easily to me or my trainer I make sure I wear my helmet each and ever ride and that my trainer wears her helmet when on my horse. To each it's own just wanted to share my story.


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## meghanlovee11

i ride in a helmet . i dont like it though . i dont see how people can buy a four hundred dollar helmet , when they can buy one below a hundred . its supposed to do the same thing right ? if it wasnt safe like the four hundred dollar one, why was it put up for sale ? haha sorry for the rant 
as i said, i dont like wearing them, but i have to . i ride a young gelding who is quit green . i hate how big & bulky it is on my head . haha of course i started riding with a bunch of old cowboys who ride in cowboy hats 
i know if i ever fell they would help no doubt . i sometimes wish more people would wear them but it took lot of pursuading to get me to wear it , & if someone doesnt wanna wear it , thats them . you cant practice falling .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BravadoThePony

I always ride in a helmet, partially because 15 and my parents want me to. They pay for my riding, so what they say goes. I also jump, which has been shown quite clearly, to be hell of a lot more dangerous than most other riding. When I'm an adult I'd love to experience riding without on just with some flat stuff, to feel the wind in my hair, but I'll always jump with one.
I also don't think I could really ever find it appropriate to call anyone out on not wearing one, especially if they don't jump. I know the risks involved in what I do, and riders who ride without one usually understand the risk involved in what they do. I'm a whole lot more likely to die out in the arena jumping with my helmet and vest than a western pleasure rider with a cowboy hat on any day.
Once you are an adult it's your choice, I think.


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## gunslinger

Arksly said:


> To be honest, I think if they did make it a law that everyone had to wear a helmet while riding a horse (and it was enforced) at first many people would be against it and still not wear them. But as time goes on, people would eventually just accept it. Just like wearing seat belts or a helmet when riding a motorcycle. People used to never do it, but now it's widely accepted.
> 
> Now, I don't think that's going to happen as the police have enough on their hands to look out for that are much more important than someone riding their horse without a helmet on, but just think about it that way.
> 
> Another thing, I think that in the future (next 20 years maybe) that there will be a lot more adults riding with helmets. Why? Because I don't think I've met anyone under the age of 18 that rides regularly without a helmet. Once they grow up, they'll be so used to wearing one that they won't really care. I've been riding for almost 9 years now and have only sat on a horse without a helmet twice (pony rides don't count) and each time I didn't feel comfortable at all. Naked almost.


 I think an adult should have the right to choose. It's called liberty, and something the country seems to be throwing away with each passing day. Think for yourself, wear your helmet because you choose to do so, not because the government says you have to. How much government intrusion into your life are you willing to endure?


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## Walkamile

gunslinger said:


> I think an adult should have the right to choose. It's called liberty, and something the country seems to be throwing away with each passing day. Think for yourself, wear your helmet because you choose to do so, not because the government says you have to. How much government intrusion into your life are you willing to endure?



Many years ago, it was very rare to see anyone wearing a helmet, including me. Never gave it a thought. Now, around here, I'd say it's 50/50 and no one stands in judgment whether you wear one or not (and I am talking about adults only). 

With that said, when I got my horses and brought them home, my DH insisted that I always wear a helmet. Now, since the majority of my riding is done alone and away from the house, I felt that was reasonable so I complied.

This Sept. while hosting a ride for the trail club I belong to, DH was joining me. As he tried to put the helmet on (and had done so on other rides) for some reason he had difficulty. In frustration he asked me if he HAD to wear the helmet. I very casually said no. All the men around him looked at him and asked if he had paid his life insurance premium or if I was ticked at him! LOL! 

I found it interesting to see how the attitudes towards helmets have changed to pro helmet in my area.


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## gunslinger

respectfully, I'm not pro helmet, or anti helmet. I'm pro liberty and anti tyranny. If you're an adult, you should have the right to decide for yourself, rather than have some government bureaucrat decide for you. What in the world has happened to personal responsibility in this country? Wake up people, or you might not have many other decisions to make.


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## Walkamile

Gunslinger I am also about choice and with that personal responsibility. I don't get very heated up about the helmet discussions because I believe it is about choice. That is why when DH asked _me_ if he _had_ to wear the helmet I found it kinda ironic. After all , my wearing one was a very important condition to him. He decided not to wear it that ride, and it didn't bother me at all, all the while I was wearing mine. All about choice, ours.

And I agree , the government has it's fingers into too much already. Soon we'll be required to "bubble wrap" ourselves before leaving the house! :wink:


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## Samstead

I volunteer at a summer camp it's a horse camp and we have STRICT helmet rules. All riders MUST wear a helmet ours or theirs doesn't matter but it must be a riding helmet ot a bike helmet (I mean really in the event that a kid falls if the get kicked or stepped on no bike helmet will help) thebonly time I have NOT worn a helmet was at the same camp under different context we were greeting the campers and their parents and wore cowboy hats. We didn't go faster then a trotnandnrode horses that are some ofmthe hardest things to spook....though the horse I rode is a total klutz, which can actually be a bit funny.


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## goneriding

How on earth are they going to enforce wearing a helmet? More tax dollars being wasted on BS. I am an adult. I am capable of making my own decisions. We have too many BS laws as it is.


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## DuffyDuck

goneriding said:


> How on earth are they going to enforce wearing a helmet? More tax dollars being wasted on BS. I am an adult. I am capable of making my own decisions. We have too many BS laws as it is.


ROFL.
The helmet police. I agree though, you can't 'force' people to wear them, its a choice thing, and you know the risks. It may, or may not ever happen.

Like I said before, once you become 'adult' 16/18/20 even you should be able to make the decision, but until then you should have to wear one. Until 17 you have to wear one out here.
I bought a €120 helmet that lasted me years, jumping I got thrown into a jump and a pole landed on the back of my head- smashed.
My next helmet is a back on track, before it became big, and cost me €250. I wear it all the time- bonus in winter it keeps your head snuggly ;D


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## WickedNag

Don't like helmet laws in any way shape or form. Don't like seat belt laws either. I just think sometimes we have to leave it up to people to be smart and not have to have laws in place for their own safety. South Dakota doesn't have a helmet law unless you are under the age of 18. We were one of the last states to put seat belt laws into place. Sad really how insurance companies have so much power in our laws.


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## DuffyDuck

WickedNag said:


> Don't like helmet laws in any way shape or form. Don't like seat belt laws either. I just think sometimes we have to leave it up to people to be smart and not have to have laws in place for their own safety. South Dakota doesn't have a helmet law unless you are under the age of 18. We were one of the last states to put seat belt laws into place. Sad really how insurance companies have so much power in our laws.


 
But then you could argue is an under 18/16yo really aware of the dangers (not bashing young riders, in ANY way here) and responsible enough to make their own decisions? If your 14 yo child rode without a helmet and was thrown and had a head injury, would you not rather have a law that said that child should have worn one? Peer pressure doesn't help in some cases, a woman I barely knew did a Xcountry course on her old timer, without a hat, because the people she was riding with rode without a hat and she felt embarrassed to put one on. Three week coma. She's pretty much alright now though.

If you're an adult, and you can make that decision yourself, crack on. But I still think an age limit, like on seatbelts, cigarrettes and alcohol would be a neat idea if it were spread a little further than DE.


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## bsms

DuffyDuck said:


> ...If your 14 yo child rode without a helmet and was thrown and had a head injury, would you not rather have a law that said that child should have worn one?...


Nope. Government making laws is almost always the wrong path, because the folks in government are stupid.

If jumping is more dangerous than riding the flats - and I think there is a lot of evidence that it is more than twice the risk - then shouldn't you argue for a ban on children jumping? Jumping with a helmet is almost certainly more dangerous than riding flats without one, so why should it be legal for a child to jump, but not legal for a child to ride in a cowboy hat?

Let the parents decide. My daughter wears a helmet the large majority of the time. She doesn't get to jump. Those are my rules for my daughter, but I don't feel a need to impose them on anyone else. In fact, I'd allow her to jump with the right horse and a good instructor to reduce the risk. Determining acceptable risk for kids is the parent's job. Not the government's.


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## DuffyDuck

bsms said:


> Nope. Government making laws is almost always the wrong path, because the folks in government are stupid.
> 
> If jumping is more dangerous than riding the flats - and I think there is a lot of evidence that it is more than twice the risk - then shouldn't you argue for a ban on children jumping? Jumping with a helmet is almost certainly more dangerous than riding flats without one, so why should it be legal for a child to jump, but not legal for a child to ride in a cowboy hat?
> 
> Let the parents decide. My daughter wears a helmet the large majority of the time. She doesn't get to jump. Those are my rules for my daughter, but I don't feel a need to impose them on anyone else. In fact, I'd allow her to jump with the right horse and a good instructor to reduce the risk. Determining acceptable risk for kids is the parent's job. Not the government's.


 
But then, unless we're using this as a generalisation, parents that don't know the risks... your daughter is very lucky that she has you as a horsey parent, but for those that don't?
Unfortunately not everyone is aware that horses aren't cute cuddly creatures, and some don't know that they can turn quick as a flash out of panic, or lack of instruction.

I can see where you're coming from with the jumping, however... Is it the same in the US? Out here if you don't wear a helmet and have an accident, you run in to porblems with insurance.


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## bsms

I suspect some organizations run into insurance problems in the US, but I don't know of any individual families. I know my health insurance doesn't have any restrictions on activities other than war - you can sky-dive, climb cliffs, and do all sorts of things that are much riskier than riding horses, and still be covered.

As for parents that don't know...I doubt many parents have any idea what the risks are in riding. And the government folks I've met are worse. I mentioned on another thread that I once was in Pima County, trying to convince them to let me build a corral without getting a new survey of my land done...and the land had been approved 3 months earlier for building a house on, so the county HAD very current survey data on it.

Anyways, there was a cowboy there trying to get a permit to build 500' or so of barbed wire fence on his property. The county agent told him, and this is close to an exact quote, "I need to be able to conceptualize a 'barbed wire fence'....what does it look like in my mind's eye?"

Someone in southern Arizona who doesn't know what a barbed wire fence looks like shouldn't be making decisions about horses, cattle, or fences. But as the government agent, he had total power, or so he thought.

After he insisted he needed a survey and engineering drawings, the cowboy left. I'm certain he went and built his fence anyways.

Meanwhile, after 4 hours of debate, I found a supervisor who told the office, "It is just a corral! Why does he need a survey?"


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## christabelle

Another way to be more safe from a fall is to not get on a horse, lol. I think its silly to dictate just how much risk one is allowed to take. I have a theory, but no evidence besides my observation of all the horse people I know...( So I am not trying to pass this off as fact, no need to jump down my throat about that). I have ridden horses pretty much my whole life, and I have fallen countless times... When I fall, it is on my back, butt, side...etc. ive broken my leg, and had many nasty bruses. I have never fell on my head, not once. It may just be luck, but if it is, it extends to my whole horse riding family. We have all had numerous injuries, but none of them were head injuries. I have had friends who are religious about helmets, and that is fine by me... They have all fallen on their heads multiple times. From my observation I feel that wearing a helmet increases your chances of falling on your head. I think it inhibits the natural tendency to tuck and roll to protect your head. Again, this is just a theory based on my personal observations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gunslinger

We don't need no stinking Naaaannnny state. They're your kids, not the governments. It's your money, not the governments. Why in the world would you want to relinquish your parental authority to a government bureaucrat? Individualism, not socialism.


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## Corporal

EVEN THOUGH I just threw away my old velvet helmet that I'd bought in the 1970's--never had it save my head--bc I replaced it with a brand new, Troxel, I say, every ride, every time. I bought the new one for $23.00, the old one cost me $15.00--hardly a comparison to the cost of an injury.


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## bsms

Some people enjoy riding without a helmet more than they do with one, and accept that risk. And some enjoy jumping more and accept that risk. And some think riding horses is just too risky period, and give it up. There isn't a right/wrong answer. It depends on your values, what you enjoy, and what you are willing to risk.

I had an engineer friend whose passion was racing motorcycles. He had broken most of the bones of his body, and once spent nearly 6 months in the hospital after a careless semi truck forced him off the freeway at 75 mph. You couldn't pay me to accept the risks he took. I still think he is nuts.

OTOH, I spent most of my adult life strapping into ejection seats and flying. Sometimes people shot at me. And if the USAF would let an aging guy with bifocals and ruined hearing fly, I'd beat down the door trying to get in! But I also went to funerals, and I knew darn well that some of those who died ran out of luck. My engineer friend thought I was nuts.

That is why I don't want government involvement. I don't know anyone in the government who I trust to make decisions about risk and reward on my behalf.


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## goneriding

Eventually, the government will have so much control, we won't even know how to wipe our a**.


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## bsms

goneriding said:


> Eventually, the government will have so much control, we won't even know how to wipe our a**.


Then we'll really be stuck, since most of government cannot find their OWN rear end with both hands, a flashlight and a map...


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## BravadoThePony

> Then we'll really be stuck, since most of government cannot find their OWN rear end with both hands, a flashlight and a map...


Not unless they have to cover it up. :wink:


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## Kayty

I always ride in a helmet, always have, always will. 
My friend came off and landed head first on a rock. Her helmet absolutely shattered, and she got away with mild concussion. I would hate to have seen what would have happened to her head if she hadn't been wearing a helmet.
Then theres the young horse rider in Germany, that rides all of the super hot, crazy young horses in the auction. They have recently been made to wear helmets while warming up for these auctions, and a week later, she was thrown and hit her head. Again, helmet shattered, she has head injuries still, but can you imagine what would have happened should she have not been wearing one? 
I don't even want to think about it. I think the benefits of a helmet far outweigh the cons. 

As for seatbelts, my old man is an intensive care paramedic. As a kid growing up, he would show me the photo's of some of the car accidents he's been too. Seatbelts worn vs. no seatbelts worn. The injuries of those with a seatbelt was HUGELY less than those without a belt. He showed me images of wrecks where the driver had flown head first through the windscreen and into trees. Another where a driver of a Smart car hit a tree, no seatbelt and the force threw him straight into the tree, shattered his head and his brain was sprayed all over the car. 

Seat belt anyone?


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## Pyrrhic

Most people think helmets are a personal choice. 

Sure, it is personal choice. We also actively choose to undertake the dangerous pastime of horse riding. It is one of the most dangerous sports in the world, but we love it and we all know in the grand scheme of all the riders in the world the benefits outweigh the risks. 

So we choose to have a dangerous, yet fun hobby. So what about our parents? Our family? Our Kids? Our friends? Did we give them a choice? Did we ask them if it was ok if we ride? Did we give them the statistics of horse rider injuries and deaths?

Who is it that is going to nurse us while we're in hospital recovering from an accident? Who's going to care for us day in, day out if we have a life changing injury? Who's going to bury us and mourn for us if we die in a riding related accident?

People may think that wearing a helmet is a personal choice but it is a personal choice that affects many, many more people than just the rider. 

I had a horrific riding accident where I broke my back and temporarily paralysed myself from the waist down. My accident meant my husband had to look after my every need until I could walk again. He had to lift me in and out of the bath. Carry me upstairs, drive me to all my appointments and not only be compassionate and understanding but also bright, cheerful and hopeful that things would get better when all I wanted to do was curl up and cry. He wasn't just my physical support, he was my emotional support and that support is still ongoing three years later as I am still affected by what happened. 

I think until you live through something like that you have no idea how much your life and the decisions you make in your life, affect other people.

I have read many stories of riders dying who may have been saved wearing a helmet. I am yet to read a story where a rider would have been saved if they hadn't worn one.


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## bsms

Pyrrhic said:


> ...So we choose to have a dangerous, yet fun hobby. So what about our parents? Our family? Our Kids? Our friends? Did we give them a choice? Did we ask them if it was ok if we ride? Did we give them the statistics of horse rider injuries and deaths?...


OK. So stop riding. It is the only way to be safe. For the family.

Why is it so hard to conceive that some people *ENJOY* riding without a helmet more than with? Some enjoy riding in an English saddle instead of Western or Australian. Some enjoy breaking young horses, or training difficult horses. Some enjoy jumping. Some enjoy working cattle. Some enjoy trail riding alone. All of those involve increased risk - so should all those folks stop? For their families?

My mare is far more likely to end up killing me than either of my geldings. Should I sell her? For my family?

Risk goes way beyond helmets or not. I wear helmets. My daughter does. Others? Their decision.

BTW - I spent most of my adult life strapped into ejection seats. Flying was my love. I didn't do it for the money. I honestly didn't do it for patriotism. I did it for the love of it, and would do it again in a heartbeat. Risky, perhaps, but I sure wish there was a need for aging, bifocal-wearing, hard-of-hearing old farts to fly jet fighters (or be a WSO/EWO in one, as I was)...they could demote me to 2LT if they would let me come out of retirement and fly. Screw the risk.


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## Pyrrhic

bsms said:


> OK. So stop riding. It is the only way to be safe. For the family.


That's not what I was implying. I said horse riding is a dangerous sport. So why not minimise the risks?



bsms said:


> Why is it so hard to conceive that some people *ENJOY* riding without a helmet more than with? Some enjoy riding in an English saddle instead of Western or Australian. Some enjoy breaking young horses, or training difficult horses. Some enjoy jumping. Some enjoy working cattle. Some enjoy trail riding alone. All of those involve increased risk - so should all those folks stop? For their families?


That's fine, enjoy riding without a hat. Individuals riding without a hat does not, in any way, affect my life. It may affect someone else's though, which was the point of my post. 

If you choose not to wear a helmet, then you increase your risk of cranial injury or death depending on the type of fall. Just like if you do more dangerous type of riding...say three day eventing over trail riding. The risk gets exponentially larger with the type of activity but that risk becomes even larger with the addition of something like not wearing a helmet. People can choose to undertake more risky activities, but they can also choose to minimise the risks of the activity. For instance, three day eveners wearing body protectors. Or people using safety stirrups. Or...people wearing helmets.



bsms said:


> My mare is far more likely to end up killing me than either of my geldings. Should I sell her? For my family?


Well, that's your decision but you might take steps to minimise your chance of injury, such as riding her differently and being more aware of how she is before riding.



bsms said:


> BTW - I spent most of my adult life strapped into ejection seats. Flying was my love. I didn't do it for the money. I honestly didn't do it for patriotism. I did it for the love of it, and would do it again in a heartbeat. Risky, perhaps, but I sure wish there was a need for aging, bifocal-wearing, hard-of-hearing old farts to fly jet fighters (or be a WSO/EWO in one, as I was)...they could demote me to 2LT if they would let me come out of retirement and fly. Screw the risk.


I was a civilian pilot and my husband is a Tornado GR4 pilot. Yes, it's risky. Then again every pilot goes through pre flight safety check, walk arounds, etc. My husband has an ejection seat, he has a life jacket, he uses oxygen at high altitude, he has cockpit instrumentation, etc. All designed to not only keep the aircraft working but also through years of research designed to protect and possibly save his life. Not having the use of something would dramatically increase his risk of injury should he have an accident. 

You could (theoretically) decide not to fly with an emmersion suit in winter, as it's hot and bulky in a cockpit. If you jet then ditches in the sea you have a much higher risk of dying than if you were wearing the emmersion suit. We undertake dangerous activities everyday, but we also find ways and means to make them safer and minimise the potential effects of an accident.


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## bsms

Pyrrhic said:


> ...If you choose not to wear a helmet, then you increase your risk of cranial injury or death depending on the type of fall...


Yes. Now, how much has the risk of death while riding gone up?

From what I've read, it goes up less when wearing a cowboy hat, by itself, than it does if doing many other common equine activities, by themselves.

The difference is that people will lecture others on wearing a helmet, and not lecture them on jumping, working cattle, trail riding alone, breaking horses, riding bareback, etc.


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## Pyrrhic

bsms said:


> Yes. Now, how much has the risk of death while riding gone up?
> 
> From what I've read, it goes up less when wearing a cowboy hat, by itself, than it does if doing many other common equine activities, by themselves.
> 
> The difference is that people will lecture others on wearing a helmet, and not lecture them on jumping, working cattle, trail riding alone, breaking horses, riding bareback, etc.


I'm not speaking about the risk of death while riding which would be incredibly variable depending on activity, country, protective equipment, experience, etc. In fact I googled statistics of riding with and without a helmet and the first link was a thread that you posted on this forum.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/helmets-injuries-some-studies-long-81416/



> This was followed up by a comparison 20 years later by Chitnavis et al 9 who undertook a prospective study of attendance at the Accident Department in 1991. They found a reduction in total admissions of 46% because of a fall in head injuries most likely due to the use of riding helmets.
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding/helmets-injuries-some-studies-long-81416/#ixzz1gTiswtXm


No matter what the equestrian activity, the risk of death and injury is reduced if a rider wears a helmet and possibly takes further protective steps depending on the type of activity, such as wearing a body protector in eventing. 

I imagine that people don't get as lectured on all the activities you have listed because individual people take steps to minimise the risk to themselves and there are so many variables. ie. trail riding alone. It's not an ideal situation, but someone might tell someone in advance where they are going and when they will be back, use a map and compass, keep a charged cell phone on them, carry bottled water, etc.


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## bsms

OK, so lets talk safety. For purposes of illustration, let's assume wearing a helmet cuts your risk by 50% any time you fall. Let us also assume breaking a young horse increases your risk 5-fold. Then someone wearing a helmet while breaking a horse has 2.5 times greater risk than someone wearing a cowboy hat on a trail ride.

Or to make it personal, I'll suggest my odds of falling from my mare is 5 times greater than my odds of falling from my gelding, due to her somewhat spooky nature & tendency to bolt. She is also faster and more clumsy than my gelding, so lets assume I'll hit the ground harder and increase the force of impact by 1.5 times. That reasonably means riding her on a given day increases my risk by 7.5 times.Wearing a helmet cuts the risk of a head injury by about 50%, so riding her on a given day with a helmet would mean I still had 3.75 times the risk, or an increase risk of 375%. Riding my gelding in a cowboy hat on a given day would be safer than riding my mare in a helmet - which is why I ALWAYS ride my mare with a helmet and long sleeves, and sometimes ride my gelding in my cowboy hat.

Of course, I could cut my risk further by always wearing a helmet on my gelding, but we've already established that my tolerance for risk includes nearly 4 times the danger.

Now lets complicate things further. The study showing 50% reduction was done in England, where the large majority ride in English saddles. Not all, but a comfortable majority. Although some experienced riders, including a number of moderators here, say that riding English is no more dangerous than riding western, I disagree. I think a large majority of beginners would agree with me - someone who has been riding a bit over 4 years, and has fairly current experience at having poor balance, and who has ridden about an equal amount of time in English, Australian, and Western saddle - that a western saddle improves your odds of staying on the horse.

So if I ride my mare in a western or Australian saddle, I can cut my risks. And while I rode her a lot before in a jump saddle, it will be a LONG time before I ever put another one on her back. However, I rode my gelding using an English saddle about 2 weeks ago, and would like to do so again if we get some dry weather for a while here in Arizona...

But there is at least speculation from folks who do these studies that riding in a forward seat increases your risk of landing head first in a fall, while riding on your pockets means you will be much less likely to land noggin-first. If true, then riding western not only decreases my chance of falling, but also decreases my chance of hitting my head if/when I fall. Does a pocket-sitting western rider have enough of a decreased risk to match the decrease in head injuries that a forward-seat rider gets from a helmet?

I don't know. There really aren't any good numbers that would make a good guess possible. All I can do is guess, based off of what seems likely from comparing riders that I see practicing English with riders practicing western. My *guess* is that it is close, but maybe not quite as good. 

And my point on these threads is that people need to think about their total risk. I won't trail ride around here without a helmet - too many rocks. I won't ride my mare without a helmet - maybe ever. My gelding in an arena on a mid-afternoon summer day? Cowboy hat. Blocks the sun much better.

I wear helmets about 90% of the time because they don't bother me much, except on summer days. They are a tool, not a cure-all. They are one of the ways of reducing risk in an already dangerous sport. I will never, ever think someone wearing a helmet is a wussie.

My big objection on these threads is to those who jump and compete in eventing - the OP in this case: "_In 2009, I had my horse, and I was at my first ever eventing competition. My coach wasn’t there since all her other students were at another competition. So, I’m entering the jumping ring, really stressed. I start the course, everything was fine. Until, I came to an oxer with the poles set at an angle. My mare and I had never jumped that._" - deciding to lecture those riding the flats and trail riders on how everyone needs to wear a helmet.

The scenario described by the OP already has a lot more risk than riding my mare does. Why is it OK for the OP to accept that risk, but not OK for me to take a much lower risk by riding flats with my gelding in a cowboy hat? Why is one high risk appropriate, and my lower risk unacceptable? If you offered me $1000 to jump an oxer in an eventing competition, I'd tell you my bones are too old to try that stuff. Yet the OP felt comfortable with that risk, and yet still wants to tell me how to manage mine...

I'm not buying that.


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## Pyrrhic

I'm not really sure why you are comparing a totally different person riding with a different skill set on a different horse, in a different discipline to you riding your horse and how safety statistics equates. You're trying to combine two sets of statistics. 

The very basis of the matter is that in trail riding (or any other type) you are statistically more likely to have a greater chance of injury or death_ in a fall _ without a helmet on.

I absolutely agree that jumping is more dangerous than trail riding and there is greater incidence of accidents.

However, no matter what discipline you are doing, you are always less likely to have a traumatic injury if you are wearing a hat.

i.e. if you had to trail riders riding the fact same horse under the exact same conditions and both fell in the exact same way and one as wearing a helmet and one wasn't then statistically speaking, the one not wearing a helmet is much more likely to be injured. That is the comparison I am trying to make.

I'm not really sure where you think I am telling you how to manage your choices. I am just talking about statistics and I said in a previous post if someone wants to ride without a helmet then it doesn't affect me in any way. I posted originally to point out to people that a 'personal' choice does not only affect them as a person and I had to witness firsthand how my accident affected those around me.


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## bsms

Pyrrhic said:


> I'm not really sure why you are comparing a totally different person riding with a different skill set on a different horse, in a different discipline to you riding your horse and how safety statistics equates. You're trying to combine two sets of statistics...


There are no studies that have only one variable in riding, nor can there be. It is not possible to ride even the same horse on 2 different days and have only one variable change.

That is why studies use statistics, and review large numbers of riders and horses and scenarios - it is to even out changes due to those many variables.

If you fall on your noggin, then yes - a helmet reduces your risk. How much? No one knows. there are too many variables in a fall. However, statistics indicate it may be a 50% reduction.

But to understand how that one factor impacts your total risk, consider two scenarios:

1 - You have a 50% chance of falling on your head that day. The helmet reduces your risk in a fall by 50%, so the helmet reduces your overall risk by 25%.

2 - You have a .1% chance of falling on your head that day. The helmet reduces your risk in a fall by 50%, so the helmet reduces your overall risk by 0.05%.

In the first case, almost everyone would agree wearing a helmet is very important. In the second case, many would argue the total risk reduction is too small to care about - that your overall risk that day is largely determined by other things.

If, as we both agree, the helmet reduces your risk during a fall by some number - and 50% is reasonable - then your risk reduction for that day is determined by your risk of falling times 50%.

During an eventing competition - which is one of the 2 scenarios used by the original poster - the risk of falling is pretty high. How does it compare to the risk of falling off my gelding in an arena? 

Well, in 3+ years, I've never fallen off my gelding, not even when he was trying to get me off his back. Of course, when he spent 10 minutes trying to unseat me, I was in an Australian-style stock saddle. I ended the ride with big bruises on each thigh, and the D ring in the front was twisted from how hard I pulled on the grab strap, but as a green rider with a previous injury on a horse that wanted me off, I stayed on.

Even with my mare, I've only come off twice in 4 years - both when she bolted during a dismount. I hurt my back the first time without a helmet, and my arm the second time with a helmet. But if I do fall, a helmet will reduce my risk - which is why I usually wear a helmet. Others choose not to, and I understand their choices even while making a different one.



Pyrrhic said:


> ...I'm not really sure where you think I am telling you how to manage your choices...


You are not, and I really appreciate that. The OP was: _"I just want to talk about the importance of helmets. I heard of people riding without helmets (or with cowboy hats) and it drives me crazy."_

A number of posters on this thread have suggested laws making it illegal to ride without a helmet, at least for minors. That is trying to use government to control our choices as parents.

You are not, and I respect your courtesy to others. When someone suggests making it a law, they are saying, in effect, that I'm too stupid a parent to be allowed to determine acceptable risks for my daughter, and I resent being called stupid - particularly when I've studied the issue more than most have.

You are explaining why you make the decisions you do, and are doing so in a polite and intelligent way.


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## DuffyDuck

bsms said:


> A number of posters on this thread have suggested laws making it illegal to ride without a helmet, at least for minors. That is trying to use government to control our choices as parents.
> 
> You are not, and I respect your courtesy to others. When someone suggests making it a law, they are saying, in effect, that I'm too stupid a parent to be allowed to determine acceptable risks for my daughter, and I resent being called stupid - particularly when I've studied the issue more than most have.
> 
> You are explaining why you make the decisions you do, and are doing so in a polite and intelligent way.


 
I apologise if you feel I labelled you as 'stupid' as a parent for having the choice. That was not my intention at all. I still feel a law for helmets should be in effect for minors as it is out here, and it is brilliant. I can't find the figures, but will dig them out tonight and translate. Since the law came in to effect a couple of years ago head related injuries have gone down with younger riders considerably.

I can however, see your point, and others. I don't feel anyone is 'stupid' for their choices of wearing a helmet or not, that is purely your decision- but as I stated earlier you are a rider, and you are aware of possible dangers, more so than a parent who, for all we know, has no experience around horses and has no idea of the dangers- just the cuddly creatures they see on films. 

At the end of the day, it is entirely your choice. If you are aware of the dangers, and do or don't, thats not something I can change, and being someone who wore a hat, then no hat and now a hat I find it also depends on the nature of the horse. 

Saying that, if we look at body protectors 'This product is not designed to prevent breaks or fractures. The nature of this product is to prevent bruising'. I'd wear one hacking out and jumping, but I still broke my shoulder in once incident and three ribs in another. So are they effective?

We may or may not fall off, we may or may not get hit by a bus, or break a leg down a rabbit hole. Unless you want to live in cotton wool, you have to take some risks. I prefer minimising the potential risks, however.


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## lynn3765

I've been riding for more than 30 years and have never ridden without a helmet. WHile I never had any major falls prior, one a few years back reiterated to me the need for a helmet. My horse decided to take a 3'9 wall a full stride long..I got left behind, came off, landed flat on my back and smacked my head full in the back. Other than being sore and ticked, I was fine. The back of my helmet, a Troxel, the colored shell, was shattered..it would have been my skull. 

The barn I ride at requires helmets at all times for all riders regardless if they are instructors, trainers, boarders or students. Anyone not liking the rule is free to board elsewhere or take lessons elsewhere and I have no problems with that rule. Yes, people have taken falls, some serious with broken bones, but, only one person ever sustained a severe head injury and that was because the helmet chin strap broke when she first made contact and the helmet came off just before she hit her head a second time. Still, had she not been wearing one, the first hit, the one with so much more force, probably would have killed her.


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## trailhorserider

You know, I think everyone has the right to choose whether or not they wear a helmet. I have no idea why everyone gets so heated over a thread like this. 

I do respect the OP for trying to do a public service and let others know of his/her experience. If it makes one person who is on the fence about wearing a helmet wear one, then it could possibly save a life.

When I first got a horse and was much younger, my Dad wanted me to wear a helmet and I really fought him on it. I wore one some of the time, but mostly I went without. What has happened in the 17 or so years since then is I have gotten older and wiser. I trail rode most of 17 years without a helmet and got lucky in that I never needed it. But then about a year ago I started ponying out my first young horse and I decided that bringing the foal with me increased my odds of a wreck immensely. So I asked for a helmet for Christmas last year.

I fell off with the colt in tow once already and was glad I was wearing it even though it was not a severe fall. I really LIKE my helmet and found it is actually cooler than the cowboy hat I used to wear!

But here is what really drove the point home for me. I was doing groundwork with the colt a few weeks ago and got knocked to the ground and hit my head on the hard packed dirt. (It was my stupid mistake, not the horse's fault). I think I got a concussion from that. I wasn't wearing a helmet because I was only doing groundwork but I was knocked down hard enough that I was disoriented and I had a headache for about 24 hours afterwards. I didn't tell my family because I didn't want them to worry. A few days later I lost most of the hearing in my right ear. I got scared it would be permanent so I finally told my family and went to the doctor. Doctor basically said wait and see, and thank goodness the hearing slowly came back to my right ear.

My point is this. Everyone "knows" the risks, but until you actually have a head injury you don't realize that what you are doing can have a serious and perhaps permanent impact on your life. 

That is where the original poster was coming from. I understand and respect that. Everyone has a right to choose what they want to do with their own lives. And maybe you will get lucky and ride for 50 years without a helmet and never have a brain injury. But some people won't be as lucky, so it is good to let people know the risks. 

I almost lost my hearing from doing groundwork. It would be scary to think of what a fall from horse could do to your head.


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## ~*~anebel~*~

"But to understand how that one factor impacts your total risk, consider two scenarios:

1 - You have a 50% chance of falling on your head that day. The helmet reduces your risk in a fall by 50%, so the helmet reduces your overall risk by 25%.

2 - You have a .1% chance of falling on your head that day. The helmet reduces your risk in a fall by 50%, so the helmet reduces your overall risk by 0.05%."

This.


As someone who is involved in heavy industry, risk and safety management is paramount in ensuring the safety of our employees so every time I turn around and take a class or go to a conference and even in school what do I get shoved down my throat again and again and again?? PPE is the LAST DEFENSE and IS NOT DESIGNED TO COMPLETELY REDUCE ALL RISK OF INJURY. It is a RISK MITIGATION MEASURE ONLY.
We can't send guys onto a site with a hard hat and steel toes and say "have fun" because we haven't done enough to manage their risk. We train the living bajeesus out of them, orient them up the wazoo and have books full of standard operating procedures to manage risk. The steel toed boots and hard hat should not ever have to be utilized if they use their training perfectly 100% of the time, follow standard operating procedures perfectly 100% of the time and are oriented to site safety practices. It should just be there and honestly on most safely run worksites you do not need a hard hat or steel toed boots. They are just there because people are apt to sue if they are injured on job sites and were not forced to wear proper PPE.

This is akin in riding to (instead of just relying on 2" of styrofoam) training our riders to ride properly, have rules and regulations for every equine activity that are deemed safe (no jumping, no leaving stuff laying around the arena, no horseplay, etc..) and then teach our riders how to fall off and manage situations in a safety conscious way. Then helmets would not be needed.

You chuck a beginner on an unsuitable horse and then put them over a fence - yup then they're probably going to "need" a helmet. We need to be riding and managing our horses in a way in which you do not "need" a helmet. A helmet is a personal choice, not some lifeline that is going to save you from every injury. It is not the helmet that is making anything safer, it is peoples safety conscious choices.

PEOPLE make situations SAFE.
HELMETS are only capable of MITIGATING RISK.

It's a biiiiiiiiig difference.


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## tlkng1

One thing people need to remember is that unlike a motorcycle rider who can make a choice as to how the bike might respond, ie, speeding, riding unsafely, the bike is a machine and doesn't think for itself. Same with race cars, mountain bikes, racing boats etc. Yes, laws are in place about helmets for these types due to the fact that the activity/sport does have risks and accidents do happen.

Now, as for horses..no matter how much we may train, desensitize and bombproof a horse, it is STILL an animal that can think for itself and will react on instinct if the right situation comes along. 

I have never ridden without a helemt in, hmmm, over 30 years  of riding. I was actually taught, by way of a harness and controlled exercises, how to fall opff a horse and while most falls I have taken I have managed not to hit my head, there have been a few occasions where I couldn't tuck in time to take the hit and smacked the back of my head. I was brining my horse in from the field when another one took exception and ran me down...iterally. She gave me a glancing kick in the side of the head as she was going over top of me...if it hadn't been for that helmet....fortunately I was able to get up and beat the snot out of her (one or two glancing blows..it wasn't like she was standing still) with the lunge whip someone had left in the field.

I've tossed three helmets due to shell damage, glad it was the helmet I was tossing and not my skull.

I can't tell people to wear helmets but I have passed on the stories. I think anyone who jumps without one is crazy and shake my head even harder when I see a married with children trainer jumping a green, bat crazy jumper over a bunch of 4 foot fences. Not saying they shouldn't jump but how hard is it to take that one extra little precaution?


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## highlander

I always wear a helmet my head is worth more than a helmet. I won't say everyone should wear a helmet, its your own head. I don't know about anywhere else but in the UK its illegal to ride without a helmet under the age of 16.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SRich

I wear a helmet every time I ride, only because I'm a minor and it's mandatory. At the age of 18, I will be old enough to make that decision myself. I've already decided that I will not continue to wear a helmet for most of my riding. Most likely I will wear a helmet if I ever get into jumping, because I know that the risks are much greater. 

I was never forced to wear a helmet when I was young. Whether I was riding a bicycle, scooter or horse. I never even had the choice to wear a helmet, because I didn't own one. When I went to local shows I had to borrow one, because they were mandatory for children. 

I started riding again in April and I tried on many helmets. None of them fit my head right. It actually kind of upset me, because my sisters always tell me my head is funny shaped. I bought a Tipperary Sportage, but I hate it. It always falls back, which I know could be very dangerous if I were to fall. Helmets are uncomfortable and I feel trapped in them. I ride Western and to be honest I think it looks funny if you are wearing a helmet while riding with Western tack. That probably sounds awful, but it's just how I feel. I audited a few clinics that my barn held and every rider that rode Western was helmetless. Every rider that rode English wore a helmet. That's just how it is where I am and I'm not going to be exception. 

Bottom line is that it's not anyones business whether you decide to wear a helmet or not, UNLESS you are a minor. I know of some barns that make it mandatory for ALL riders to wear one and that's exactly why I wouldn't take lessons there. I understand why they do, but I personally feel that my right is being taken away.

Also, lets say the average sized horse is 1000 pounds. A horse has the capability of killing a person at any given moment, helmet or helmetless. It's your responsibility to know the danger that a horse brings and always be prepared for the worst. Don't take any short cuts and always respect the horse.


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## Samstead

Like I said before the camp I volunteer at a has a "no helmet. No ride." rule for safety and liability reasons. I say unless there's a liability issue let people make their own choice.


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## Cat

tlkng1 said:


> One thing people need to remember is that unlike a motorcycle rider who can make a choice as to how the bike might respond, ie, speeding, riding unsafely, the bike is a machine and doesn't think for itself. Same with race cars, mountain bikes, racing boats etc. Yes, laws are in place about helmets for these types due to the fact that the activity/sport does have risks and accidents do happen.
> 
> Now, as for horses..no matter how much we may train, desensitize and bombproof a horse, it is STILL an animal that can think for itself and will react on instinct if the right situation comes along.


However you also have to consider the fact that on a motorcycle you are also on the road with hundreds of other drivers - all of who have minds of their own and tend to be distracted in this day and age with cell phones and what not. A motorcycle is also going at much higher speeds which will also increase the amount of damage that can happen if an accident does occur. A horse at full gallop can't keep up with a motorcycle.


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## Spotted Image

I didn't read all of the pages, but I want to put a little input in. I was once riding an gelding who went into a bucking fit, which got me thrown, right by a tree that my Dad was standing at to try to calm the gelding. I didn't have an helmet on and I'm thankful for that. My head came about an half inch from hitting the tree. Yes, My head could have hit the tree, but with the distance I fell If I had a helmet on the helmet would have smacked the tree and push my head back. In that case I would have been more injured with the helmet, by walking away with a sore back and sore neck, instead of only a sore back. I have also saw the good they had done and I still wear a helmet more often then I don't. We actually this got my Dad an helmet for him to wear on the green broke horses. Sometimes I like to ride a gentle horse with out the helmet, Do I see anything wrong with it nope? Then if I get on my green broke mare, the helmet comes on my head. Another thing is in the group of 20 riders, maybe 5 of us wear helmets and 3 of the helmet wearers are under 16.


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## SarahAnn

once upon a time, on a cold, Maine winter day, I took a ride on my girl Tuffy. Everything was fine until we cam across a logger on the trail. I noticed it, and tried to turn around, but just then BANG! a tree came down not too far away from us. Tuffy reared, I fell into a snow bank. Not too bad. But then, Tuffy slipped and fell, and as she tried to regain her footing, she used my head to push herself out of the snow bank. I thank God every day that I was wearing my helmet.

Every ride, every time. HELMET HELMET HELMET. 

And no one ever is permitted to mount my horses without one. Ever.


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