# Stalls are abuse? Your opinions.



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Fortunately for humans horses are very adaptable creatures. Just because it's best to have 24 hour turnout doesn't mean they can't thrive being stabled PART of the time. I do not think it's good for them to be stuck in a stall 24/7. There are exceptions to that rule as well. An injury that requires minimum movement would be one of those exceptions.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Don't take anything this girl says to heart. She doesn't have a clue what she is talking about. Just another teen obcessed with Internet popularity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Hardly abuse, unless they are not given food, water, etc.....


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

I heard a guy once say stalls can hurt your horse mentally because there is nothing to do in a stall, unless you have a toy that amuses for 10 minutes. 

I would only think it's not fair if they are in a stall 24/7 or 3/4 the day. If I were ever to stall my horses, they would be put in in the evening and let out in the morning, probably a fair 12hrs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BugZapper89 (Jun 30, 2014)

I think the person is a loose but behind the wheel


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Unrestricted movement is a crucial part of a horses' mental health, digestive system, metabolism and his body as whole. In sake of my horse, he is not stabled, except for about 30 minutes daily (feeding time) and one night a year - New Year's Eve, to protect him from fireworks. This will apply to any of my future horses and I strongly advise the same lifestyle for any horses' owner that asks for my opinion. Instead of a 3x4m stall, he has acres and acres of fields to roam in with his herd 24/7/365.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Some horses actually prefer stalls. I have three horses, 2 live outside and 1 is stalled. He is stalled bc he prefers it. Next summer when they all live at home I might still stall him and leave the others out. This is because he likes to come in and eat inside and sleep on soft bedding inside. 

Slow feed hay bags are great for stalled horses to make their hay last. Contrary to what people think, horses don't eat constantly all day. About 50% of the time I go catch my mare outside she's not eating.

My mare was also stalled for 9 months just at night while we boarded at a newer barn. Guess who was the first at the gate begging to come inside when it was hot/wet/cold? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

My guy loves coming inside at night. I have him inside because me and my vet agreed that with the problems with his feet and tendons that he should have a period where he is resting since he is active and plays hard outside. Plus being inside he can get his legs wrapped at night and get his antiinflammatory daily. 

Out of all the horses on indoor board, we have maybe 3 who don't come running to the gate in the evening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

subbing


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I quite watching the video after about 2 minutes. That girl is an idiot. 

However, myself personally, I do not like keeping a horse in a stall and I will never do it. 

Why?

Structurally and anatomically, horses bodies are designed for grazing 24/7. Their stomach constantly produces acid and needs something to digest, or else you run the risk of causing ulcers. Their circulation system relies on the hooves "pumping" blood that happens naturally as they slowly walk around while grazing. Not to mention it is better for them to be moving around rather than in a 12x12 box. Plus the bad habits horses will pick up (such as cribbing) due to boredom in a stall. 

It is more natural for them to be in a pasture and better for their overall health, so that is why my horses will never be stalled. I understand there are different areas of the country and different aspirations for showing, but 24/7 stalling just isn't good for a horse. 

Partial stalling (such as overnight) is a little different story, but keeping your horse in an open area as much as possible is definately best for the horse.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

my horse is on a 12 hour turnout 12 hour inside schedule, she seems happy with it, also people like the girl who made the video will be the ones claiming people riding horses at all is abusive, and breaking their spirits..etc..LOL


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## hopie22 (Jan 28, 2013)

I hate stalling my mare, however right now because of an injury she has to be confined until the swelling in her leg goes down. So right now she is stalled and turned out into a small pen for a small amount of time during the day. I wish she could be out longer but she is one of those horses who likes to run and play and she cant do that right not sadly. We do also let her lose in the indoor arena and let her roam around in there for some time to. However I also put her in a stall the night before I haul somewhere so that I do not have to worry about catching her. But otherwise she is out all day!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

This girl is a wannabe - she is not knowledgeable and many of the things she says are plain dangerous.

I have absolutely no doubt that when I was her age I had forgotten more then she thinks she knows!


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## Viranh (Apr 7, 2013)

Well, my spoiled thin skinned TB is one of the first at the gate to go in at night, and he's pretty opinionated about things, so if he thought stalls were abuse, you would not be able to catch him and make him go in one. In fact, in the spring and fall, sometimes he won't come up to go in (and the others won't either) and my BO lets them stay out. But in the summer in the afternoon and winter at night, he stands at the gate demanding to be put in his stall. Honestly, the poor guy is too clueless to leave out in bad weather or fly season. An old QH had to teach him to use the run in shed. I'd just rather he go in if it is truly nasty out.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Ohhhh man xD I can't stand this girl's youtube videos. I've seen a few (mostly the ones that have been posted on this site) and they irritate me so much. She seems very pompous, and like her way is the only way. If she continues in the equestrian world, she'll learn that that attitude won't get her very far very quickly.

Frankly, it depends on your horse and your situation.

If your horse needs stall rest is it still abuse? If your horse has a full clip and it's below zero is it still abuse? If your horse is transported to a show and your two options are tying to your trailer all day or stalling is it abuse? If that's the only option in your area (which can be true for a lot of urban riders!) is it still abuse?

Yes, I agree that turnout is preferable. Absolutely. But there are extenuating circumstances and, as adults with control over our animals, it's our decision to choose what is best for them.... Unless some teenager knows better than everyone else, in which case she should start paying my board 

Ultimately, to call it blatantly abuse seems ridiculous. But that doesn't seem too far off for her.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

This girl is beyond ignorant and knows nothing. Unfortunately for the rest of us, she insists on spouting her nonsense all over youtube. Blech.

I also prefer my horses to be outside, but there are times when it's better for all of us if they're in. Lightning? Hail? Extreme heat and no trees? Those are all arguments for bringing horses inside. Mine know where the barn is, are lined up at the gate when the weather is bad and when I open the gate from the pasture, they go directly to their stalls and stand in front of the stall doors. The first thing they do inside is lay down and roll in the bedding. Terrible abuse..........NOT!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Sooooo I just watched the video. Looks like my assumptions were right. She's blatantly wrong about... well, a lot of things.

-Firstly, she claims that she "guarantees" these horses spent the "Majority" of their lives in a stall. She then says "Close to 24/7". Uh. No. There are very few boarding facilities that do not offer turnout. It usually ranges from 3-18 (the daylight, and sometimes a little later) horses, in a pasture or in a turnout. 
-She called everyone that keeps a horse in a barn stupid. Really? xD So mature.
-Finally, she made the comment to just "open the doors and let the horses run out." This is highly flawed. Yes, some horses will go. But if the fire has already started, many horses (when in a fire) will freeze in place and no go anywhere.

EDIT--Also, i'm curious... Am I an idiot if I keep my horse outside during the winter and it slips on ice and breaks a leg? This happens occasionally here in Colorado... is that the owner's fault for not stalling? Accidents can happen anywhere. Instead of acting high and mighty about it, maybe we should just... I dunno, be sympathetic and keep our opinions to ourselves. Man, this girl... xD


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

I would not take anything she says to heart. Let me address the stall question first: 

I do believe when used inappropriately a stall is abusive. When I say that I mean a horse that is stalled for most of it's life only being outside once or twice in its entire life. I've seen this firsthand and even though they had food and water they had no muscle mass, several breathing issues due to being inside all the time and would not set foot on the ground. It was sad and disgusting. We were only able to get two out of thirty horses rehabilitated to become pasture ornaments. The rest sadly either died from lung infections, or had to be euthanized due to other severe mental/physical problems. 

However that being said, horses that are stalled occasionally and allowed turnout I have no problem with. It's not for me, not my cup of tea but I don't find it the slightest bit abusive. Some horses like stalls and some don't, that's where owners have to make the decision. My mare liked having a stall in the winter when it got cold. My gelding prefers to be outside no matter what and if he's in a stall will tear it down. Responsible stalling is not good or bad, it's something that depends on the individual and the circumstance. 

I also would not take a word of what she says to heart. There's a reason you don't let horses simply run away from a fire and that's because there are more accidents that way. And also, using this tragedy that let's face it none of us know the whole story, to defend her argument was trashy. At all the barns I have worked at (with both stalled and non stalled horses) we have always had an escape plan. However sometimes it's not possible. There was one barn one winter that collapsed under weight of all the snow and ice. Sadly we lost a lot of horses that were in stalls overnight due to the storm, the rest of the time they were out in pastures. I knew one lady who's barn caught fire. Her horses had run in stalls and were standing in them when the fire broke out above their stalls. Sadly even though they could get away from the fire a distance they died of smoke inhalation. 

Freak accidents happen in the horse world. It's a fact of life and it's devastating. But these accidents do not mean stalling a horse is good or bad. Responsibility is the key here. A horse can die just as easily in a stall as it can in a pasture. And personally I would not take anything that a teenager on youtube, who does not have the same experience as an entire generations before us, too seriously, especially when she uses this tragedy and the owners pain to her own gain with no shred of sympathy to them.


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

Well, guess someone should tell my horse (who will walk from paddock into barn into his stall on his own) that I'm abusing him. *rolling eyes*


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

the horse we take care of are not wild horse and even them wild horses do not live that long because the have to fight to live and we have tort are horse to relight on use for food and shelter


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

While being stalled isn't the ideal for most horses, it's a far cry from abuse. Most horses being stalled, even if they are stalled a majority of the time, can be perfectly happy so long as they are managed correctly.


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## IRaceBarrels (Jan 21, 2012)

That girl is wrong about a vast majority of things she says in her videos. It is sad that girls look up to her and use her advice. She thinks bits and bosals are evil so she rides in a mechanical hackamore. Also helmets can kill you but she wears a chest protector when jumping. None of it makes sense. 

The only time I think a stall is abuse is if the horse never leaves it. Optimally all horses should get at least some turn out every day.But if they are hard working show horse that spends several hours being worked or in a hot walker I can hardly call it abused. As others have said, horses a designed to graze and move around. Hard to do that in a stall but that still isn't abuse.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

First off, that girl managed to annoy the heck out of me within the first few seconds of the video. That didn't get things off to a good start :wink: 

Second, that girl is full of crud. I have heard of horses dying in barn fires. Unfortunately, it has been known to happen. I've also known horses being struck by lightning in the pasture. That wouldn't have happened were they in the stall, but I'm certainly not going to call turnout abusive. Horses have been injured tripping in a hole running through the pasture. Still not abusive in my mind, though very unfortunate when it does happen :wink: 

My horse is kept in a stall for a fair portion of the day. I personally prefer a 12/12 hour schedule (in during the day, out at night), but my barn doesn't do it that way. Instead he's out from very early in the morning until about 2 for feeding, and they're always itching to come in. Watching this video doesn't make me feel as though I'm doing anything wrong by having my horse in this situation. That said, I DO think that keeping a horse inside 24/7 without a darn good reason is at least borderline abusive. Horses are designed to move around, and I think they need some movement a day to keep them healthy. I also think that it's important for them to get some sort of herd interaction in the paddock, though I understand that there are reasons why group turnout isn't always practical. 

Sometimes it's necessary for a horse to be strictly on stall rest for health reasons. It's unfortunate, but it happens. I've seen horses go nuts from it. A friend has a pretty quiet, well mannered TB that was on stall rest for at least a couple of months while having a crazy fungal eye infection treated. The activity he could have gotten from any turnout at all could have caused something to happen and make him lose his eye (I don't remember the specifics, but it was very critical to keep him quiet). He was great for the first month or so, but he began to get very testy and ill mannered after that point. He was having to have eye drops put in multiple times per day, and I had a very hard time doing it the times I helped out. I don't blame him- he was stuck in a box all day and wasn't able to get any energy out at all. The vet finally cleared him for some hand walking and he was absolutely atrocious. I told my friend that I wasn't willing to take the risk that he'd pull away from me, go galloping over the property, and damage his eye on my watch. Once cleared for light trot work on the lunge line his behavior improved greatly. It seemed like a pretty clear example of how keeping a horse stalled 24/7 without any riding or exercise (I unfortunately know people who do it...) is bad for them. Still, it was better than losing his eye. It was very stressful for everyone involved, but now thanks to the stall rest he's back 100%. 

I could go segment by segment in this video and give my comments, but I'll spare you folks. I'll just say that thinking horses can "sense" a fire before it starts and will leave the barn is a load of crud. Perhaps it's happened, but this girl will be sorely disappointed if she expects her "smart" horses to figure their way out of a situation and they suffer a tragic accident. Also, "I don't blame the barn manager for what happened" then she says "You're an idiot and irresponsible for keeping a horse in a stall". Contradiction, much? 

I watched part of another one of her videos (couldn't make it through the whole thing) and was very unimpressed. I watched the horse problems video, and she'd make an awful lot of assumptions when trying to answer a simple question. Such as, "My horse hasn't been eating. What's wrong/what should I do?" The call the vet advice was sound, but she immediately jumped to the assumption that the girl had switched feeds. No info about what sorts of issues could cause loss of appetite, etc. "My horse gives me sass and tries to go towards the gate" turns into a bit problem exclusively? No mention of how to fix gate sourness, just a suggestion to use a hackamore? I've definitely had horses try to haul butt back to the gate in a halter with me! Nothing that I saw from her gives her any credibility IMO. Jumping4joy, I'd seriously try to think about what you see and whether or not this is someone you want to call "one of my favorite equestrians".


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

I have a horse who has always lived in a pasture. He got to go on vacation for 6 months on a huge ranch just being a horse no human interaction.

When he came back it was amazing how much he had improved.... his feet, his disposition, he surefooted-ness, attitude, everything about him was so much better.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If its snowing outside and the grass is all covered up then the horses will do nothing much more than stand in one place where the hay is and eat
If the flies are really bad and the suns hot over their heads then they'll stand in a shelter - and eat.
I do like my horses do be outside as much as possible but in the above conditions if I open their gates and open the barn they'll all run in and 'stand in their stalls - and eat
How many times have I heard people say - don't humanize horses - well don't do it - they have no concept of the passing of time as we do and no huge need to be entertained. They want to feel safe, they want to feel comfortable, they prefer to have other horses around them but most of all they want to eat.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

jaydee said:


> If its snowing outside and the grass is all covered up then the horses will do nothing much more than stand in one place where the hay is and eat
> If the flies are really bad and the suns hot over their heads then they'll stand in a shelter - and eat.
> I do like my horses do be outside as much as possible but in the above conditions if I open their gates and open the barn they'll all run in and 'stand in their stalls - and eat
> How many times have I heard people say - don't humanize horses - well don't do it - they have no concept of the passing of time as we do and no huge need to be entertained. They want to feel safe, they want to feel comfortable, they prefer to have other horses around them but most of all they want to eat.


yup.. they may love the attention / having a job, but most horses just want food.. I know even if a random boarder walks near the grain all the horses start becoming super vocal..LOL


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

All the horses that were in work were clipped, blanketed and kept in stables. They did, a couple of days a week get turned out if it was wet they would go to the muddiest spot, roll, have a quick fling around the field, pick at some grass for a short time and then be wanting back in.

They always had big airy stables where they could see all that was going on. They were well exercised, ridden for at least 11/2 - 2 hours daily. 
The young horses had large loose barns. They came in at night and out during the day. I would open the door to let them wander down to th fields where there was hay waiting for them, and if it was pouring they would simply walk out, look across the fields, turn around and walk back inside.

When you see horses stood hunched, heads down, tails to the wind and rain shivering because they are soaked through, they will not move from wherever they are trying to shelter to even go eat hay or feed. 
I know where they would rather be.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

While I have one that would agree with you Foxhunter, the rest would refuse to go in if given a choice. A couple would refuse even if not given a choice. I just make sure there is plenty of fresh water available and good hay out where they can easily get to it. We do feed when pasture is scarce and hay is pretty much all that is available. No matter how miserable they look they come for their buckets.


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## Peanutbutter (Apr 23, 2014)

This girl is insuffrable. Seriously she dosen't know at all what she is talking about ever.


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## Peanutbutter (Apr 23, 2014)

OMG it's abuse to keep humans in houses because of house fires. That's her logic.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Sadly my mare is stalled in a pipe stall 24/7. she flirts with her boyfriend over the fence most of the day in her 30X14 stall. My horse hates it soo much she will put herself away in her stall any chance she gets -_-'. I dont LIKE the fact my mare is stalled 24/7 but welcomed to arizona boarding. 
Heck most people out here believe that it is DANGEROUS to leave horses turned out without supervision, and to NEVER leave horses out together for extended periods of time (fiance refuses to let all the horses be out together when we get our own place, he says it only takes 1 kick). she can go to my barn with slightly thinner horses cooped up all day, every day. she'd have an aneurysm.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

My mule was out almost 24/7 except when the weather was really bad. He got brought in 2x a day to be fed, and that was that. Any horse or mule I have after that will hopefully live the same way, as I think it’s beneficial to most healthy horses that don’t otherwise need to be stalled, but it’s silly to call something abusive with such broad-brush statements. You could argue that people aren’t designed to have needles stuck in their skin, and we don’t like them, so therefore it’s abusive to give a defenseless baby a shot- but what’s in the needle is keeping the baby from dying from horrible diseases like whooping cough and measles, so ultimately a tiny bit of discomfort is a huge benefit to the baby. The same goes for horses, or any other animal. When the alternative is extreme heat/cold/weather, biting or stinging insects, or an injury or health issue that would be worsened by constant turnout, a little bit of boredom is preferable to the alternative in each situation. 

There is a fine line between “I prefer to do it this way because (insert reason here)”, and “Nobody is allowed to have a different opinion than I do, and if you do you are stupid/cruel!” That is where you are allowing your passion and love for an animal rule your common sense. She’s very young and very naïve, and she’s attempting to assert her own knowledge by screaming down everyone else’s ideas without really understanding them. There is no teenager on earth who knows all there is to know about horses, management, and horsemanship. There’s no adult who knows all that, either. Not you, not me, not a teenager with a webcam, not Buck Brannaman, not Pat Parelli. No opinion is law. 

Caring for animals, ANY kind of animal, is not an elementary-school math question, where 2+2=4 every time, for any reason. It’s an algebra question where lots of different factors are in play, and changing one factor can change what the correct answer to the problem is. 

Any time someone states that “X is always Y, no exceptions!” I know they have not thought hard enough about what they are saying.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

I am going to say my view on the video in little sections. I'll give the time as to where I'm talking about. Now I will admit right now that I may say something wrong or incorrect, so correct me if I do. :wink:

*:0 - :14 ~ *_"Eighteen horses...eighteen freaking horses lost their lives and WHY? Because they were in a stall...OMG!!!" _Not because they were in a stall, because of a fire! Stalls don't eat horses for lunch. I understand she is an extreme horse lover but seriously...

*1:11 - 1:20 *~ Sounds like she IS blaming the barn owners! It is NOT their fault a fire started. Anything can happen at any given time. A lightbulb could blow, an outlet could catch fire somehow, for all we know LIGHTNING could have hit the barn! I would expect the owners to be out there everyday caring for their horse. I offer pasture, stall, and other necessities but you should be responsible when to put the horses in a stall or out in a pasture (unless barn rules say otherwise) and should be there caring for them. 

*1:34 - 1:38 *~ Little side note, but I wish I had a barn that huge! :lol:

*3:16 - 3:31 *~ :shock: I am an ignorant, stupid person and so is 60% of the horse world!!! Shocker! Uh, NO. It is not ignorant to put your horse in a stall. Some horses need to be in a stall, maybe because of injury or diet reasons or because they prefer to be in a stall. A horse out in a large field with an injury won't get better because they'll move around, whereas a stall will prohibit to much movement so that injury can rest and heal. As an example, one of our cows, still pregnant, injured her back leg somehow. She was limping pretty bad. So we locked her up for a few days and she seemed ok. Then let her out and BAM, bad leg again! And it was worse. Now she's been put in our lot, which is a good sized space, probably the size of three or four stalls, but not a lot of room to where she can injure herself further. 

And also PASTURES and PADDOCKS are more dangerous than stalls. Let's see, there could be poisonous plants a horse could eat, holes caused by critters your horse could step in and break his leg, rocks to cause him to go lame, lightning could hit the horse, a tree could fall over, hail, and even fires can start in the field and surround the perimeter quickly, :O the horse is trapped INSIDE!

*3:33 - 3:40 *~ Of course they wouldn't have! Nobody wants to think that their horse could die. They do take precautions such as cleaning things up, no smoking, etc. to try and prevent fires, but sometimes they cannot be prevented.

*3:53 - 4:16 *~ Key word here "probably". The girl is making a HUGE and ignorant assumption here. She says the horses live 24/7 in a stall and only come up for a couple hours to go to a show, and then get locked back up. Wow. How does she know that that's what happens? Does she board there? Work there? Have lessons there? Has she ever BEEN there?! I highly doubt it. She doesn't know if the horses are in a stall for the night, because if I remember correctly from the video it started around midnight? yeah, horses would likely be in their stalls then, and probably out to pasture during the day.

*4:20 - 4:52 *~ No, putting a horse in a stall is a VERY common thing to do and MANY horses have survived hours and hours in a stall. There could be reasons why they're in a stall, like I said earlier: injury, diet, health. And it is NOT like locking a human up. Humans and horses are two completely different things. 

*4:55 - 5:09 *~ OMG, you have stalls! Your horses can't go in them they are too dangerous! Keep them in a pasture all the time! -_- 

*5:20 - 5:26 *~ They can sense it? "Human, human, there's gonna be a fire, let me free!" They probably can but it's not like they're going to open their mouth and talk English to warn us. I would think the horse would be afraid, and freeze (like someone mentioned here) instead of running towards the fire to get away from it. They are not as smart as humans. An example, which is probably a horrible one, in movies whenever there's a fire the horses don't just race out. The humans have to go in there and FORCE them out. Even blindfold them so the horse will go towards the door, which always seems to have fire around it ^_^. 

*5:55 - 6:35 *~ It's not stupid! The only way stalls would be cruelty is if the horse is in one all day, and only exceptions are injuries and sickness. If you ran and opened every stall, the horse would peek out, smell smoke and see fire and be like "Uh, yeah, I am NOT going out there, are you crazy!? I feel safer in here." 

*7:21 - 7:28 *~ What if they need to be on a diet or for health related issues they cannot be grazing all the time? 

*8:03 - 8:30 *~ I don't stall my horse first off because I don't have a stall to put him in. And what do I think of this video? That IT is ridiculous. Not stalls, that video! The entire horse world must be stupid and irresponsible because people put their horses in stalls and some people, who do not for other reasons, probably would if they had stalls.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Wow I really can't stand this chick. My ears are ringing now.

Yes, I shouldn't stall my (soon to be) clipped horse overnight in negative-degree weather. That sounds SO much safer and more humane than leaving him outside overnight. My gelding is absolutely thrilled when I bring him into his nice, heated stall with all of his buddies.

This girl keeps saying no horse should EVER be left in a stall . . . does that mean horses on stall rest? Injured horses? Old horses in the cold?


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Ok -I didn't watch the video, but here is my take on things.
We've owned a couple horse that spent their beginning years in a stall and they had no idea how to use their feet. One paint mare which had been in a stalled for the 1st 3 years of her life went down a hill on her butt the 1st time she was on a trail, because she never been on anything but flat ground. Also both horses were super clumsy. It was like they no awareness of their body. 
That being said my horse is currently in a stall, but she gets regular turn out, and I ride a lot in the arena and on the trail. I have noticed a minor difference in her feet plus I really have to watch her weight but other than than not much change


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Alright, I just tried watching this video and had to stop half through. I've seen this girl's videos before, and gosh, she just grates my nerves. I hate even giving her play time, because I think it just encourages her.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Roman said:


> I am going to say my view on the video in little sections. I'll give the time as to where I'm talking about. Now I will admit right now that I may say something wrong or incorrect, so correct me if I do. :wink:
> 
> *:0 - :14 ~ *_"Eighteen horses...eighteen freaking horses lost their lives and WHY? Because they were in a stall...OMG!!!" _Not because they were in a stall, because of a fire! Stalls don't eat horses for lunch. I understand she is an extreme horse lover but seriously....


I didn't bother to watch the video because, well, I've seen a couple of her others and know what she's about.

I will touch on this though, if she's blathering about the recent barn fire that's been all over the news and FB.

I wonder what she would say if I told her that I know people who lost herds (both cattle and horses) to prairie fires, but had they been inside a barn they likely would have been fine. 

A few years ago when we were having all the grass fires across this entire part of the country, there were many farmers and ranchers who lost stock, not only to the fire, but to injuries sustained when the animal ran through fences fleeing the fire. However, the fire departments were able to save the vast majorities of barns and houses. So, if those animals had been kept in a barn, they would likely have walked away virtually unscathed.

There are so many people who go way overboard on wanting to keep horses "safe"...especially considering that horses will _never _be safe, no matter what you do. You can wrap one up in bubble wrap and put it in a padded room and it will chew a hole in the wall, eat the padding, colic, and die. In spite of how it's frowned upon, we've kept our horses in the big pasture fenced with barbed wire since long before I was born. I can remember a handful of times in my entire life where we had one get hurt to the point that they actually required some level of care, and never had to take one to the vet from it.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Horses kept in stalls don't know they are safe from those predators that are always lurking about. If a horse can see beyond his stall, then he knows he's fair game, yet can't run. Many horses mentally shut down and become accepting of their plight. This doesn't necessarily mean they like being in a stall. Even if circumstance requires the use of a stall, the horse needs company, safety in numbers. Because a stalled horse can't walk away from his pee puddle, he's inhaling the ammonia and walking in it plus the manure. Horse movement is imperative to flood flow and digestion. The frog needs to be activated to push the blood up those long legs. Besides all that, if there's a barn fire, there's little chance they will survive as the smoke can kill even if someone gets them out.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I've had two horses jump out of their paddocks because they were spooked by deer since we've been here - I've never yet had one spook in its stable and try to jump out.
In thunderstorms my horses are settled and happy in the stable - outside they get nervous and start racing around
I would say that if you have to drag a horse kicking and screaming into its stable then they are saying they hate it but when they're queuing up to come in and come in at speed then that's hardly a sign they are being forced and just accepting their plight
I have known people who've had the misfortune to have barn fires and managed to get all the horses out with no lasting harm
I can't see the extremes in these discussions because you can neglect a horse that's left out 24/7 and it can be at risk from all sorts of things


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Saddlebag--It's fine to have that opinion, but ridiculous to say (as this girl does) that anyone who keeps their horse in a stall, for any reason what so ever, is a stupid idiot xD


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

smrobs said:


> I didn't bother to watch the video because, well, I've seen a couple of her others and know what she's about.
> 
> In spite of how it's frowned upon, we've kept our horses in the big pasture fenced with barbed wire since long before I was born. I can remember a handful of times in my entire life where we had one get hurt to the point that they actually required some level of care, and never had to take one to the vet from it.


 I watched the video twice, well through it all once and then 3/4 way through the second time.

We have barbed wire fencing too. I've only seen one injury on Roman and it was a few scratches, not bleeding, that healed and disappeared on their own, no thought of a vet needed.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

Like most things in the horse world I don't think stalls or stalling horses is inherently cruel or abusive. I know my boys love their run in stalls and often spend all day just happily standing in there. But they have the choice to leave and go roam, that's a big deal to me. They make the choice. 

My friend's horse was boarded and would never get turn out. She would go once a week or so, pull him out of the stall and lunge him or ride him. Then right back into his stall he went. I felt bad for that horse. He was miserable and it showed. I cannot imagine spending 24 hours a day, for days on end stuck in a box. To me, yes that is abusive.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

The joy of the internet any fool with a camera can be an "expert". Her ideas about stalling and fires are completely out of whack. Heck my mothers uncle lost the family farm because lightening struck a tree in their pasture where the dairy herd had taken refuge and killed all the animals. Animals can die even when they live outside, accidents happen and that is why they are called accidents. In addition, and though a very small comfort the horses probably died of smoke inhalation as opposed to burns. That at least what what I was told about many house fires and any "witches" that were burned at the stake. 

More on point, the assumptions this girl makes are insane. She is actually open to a slander suit if anyone took her seriously. She is clearly young, indulged and the world will roll her in a most harsh way sooner or later.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

And there are those people who claim giving Precious a smack with a crop is abuse. The best bet is to be as informed as possible and make the best choices we can with the information we have. An open mind is always learning and we do the best we can in given circumstances.


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I tried to watch the video but kept getting an error so finally gave up. 

I have 4 horses in 4 different age groups, 4 different back grounds and 4 different nutritional needs. They need to be separated for feeding to make sure they all get what they need. I have 2 starvation rescues that need a little TLC. So, they are stalled at evening feeding time and they stay all night, fed in their stalls in the morning and then let out into the pasture during the day. 

When we irrigate I don't like them standing in that water so they're stalled for 2 to 3 days until it's fairly dry to let them out.

So, is it more abusive to make sure each horse gets their proper feed? More abusive to take care of their feet and not let them stand in irrigation water? 

Maybe it's best I didn't get to watch it.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I havent watched the video and likely won't lol.

My horses are outside 24/7 on pasture with round bales only coming in twice a day for feed. Or they come in for bad weather. When Hurricane Arthur came rolling through 2 of my horses were actually happier outside. Go figure. The other 2 wanted in.

That said, with my horses living outside I still have one that is now on week 4 of stall rest because of a pasture injury. So living outside isnt always the "safer" option.

My old fart Bratty Mare who lived in a stall most of her life is on her second winter living outside and is thriving on it but she still tells me when she has had enough of the nasty weather and wants to come inside.

There is no right or wrong. Some horses thrive off outside living, others hate it and prefer the comfort of a stall every night. Its up to us as owners to listen to our horses and let them tell us what they are happiest with.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

NBEventer said:


> There is no right or wrong. Some horses thrive off outside living, others hate it and prefer the comfort of a stall every night. Its up to us as owners to listen to our horses and let them tell us what they are happiest with.


^^ This times a million and a half!!!!

Aires will not go in a stall (will go in the barn, but not in a stall). Absolutely refuses. Even when he has shelter, he won't use it. He would rather stand out in the rain and snow than use any shelter. When we first moved to the barn we're at now, he was in a mare motel-type stall with a semi-enclosed shelter on one end (covered and plywood on three sides). I watched him deliberately stand out in the cold rain in the middle of winter. He won't even wear a blanket and never shivers or even act cold. 

My old gelding, on the other hand, was a wimp. Thin-skinned Arab/NSH cross who was raised in the desert his whole life. He came up to the mountains to be retrained and would shiver and just look miserable if the temperature dropped much below 50F. So, he was blanketed and put in an indoor stall all winter, only coming out on the warmest days for turnout and work. If he was so unsafe and hated a stall so much, why did I not have to lead him into his stall (flipped the lead rope over his back and pointed toward his stall) and why would he help put his blanket on (if you slipped it on over his head, he would flip his head back to push it down his neck to his shoulders)? Yeah, I'm sure he felt extremely abused.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

It really bothered me that she said the lady should have just opened the stalls and let the horses run out. Many times horses will panic and not leave their stalls or run back to their stalls. She is young and ignorant, too bad people listen to her, she obviously has a big head! Hopefully she doesn't hurt it jumping without a helmet....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> There is no right or wrong. Some horses thrive off outside living, others hate it and prefer the comfort of a stall every night. Its up to us as owners to listen to our horses and let them tell us what they are happiest with.


 I agree as well!! If it is snowing outside, like a nice blizzard, and there's access to the shelter, he will stand right outside of it. -_- Yes, the cows are up there but there is still plenty of room. He must want to be a white horse instead of bay. :lol:


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## Canterklutz (Jul 20, 2012)

Wasn't this the same girl who was trying to encourage other teenagers not to wear helmets while riding?

*Sees a video of her teaching her horse to rear*
*Sees many videos of her riding without a helmet and flopping like a sack of potatoes on her horse's back over jumps*
*Sees a video titled with the innuendo for male genitalia about not wanting to **** someone unless they have a big *** and applying it to her horse* 
*Shudders*
*Remembers a few years back when Soulja Boy's Crank That was popular and teenagers girls who didn't quite get the innuendo were using it in their videos saying they wanted to "Superman" their horses...*
*Vomits*

And why are people even following this channel? :???:


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Bah. She's just marketing to the "I wuv horsies" crowd.

But, this is an increasingly popular opinion held by people who know nothing about horses. I get even more amused and annoyed when, at the same time, they think all the BLM horses should be blanketed or brought "in" (to what, I don't know) when it's cold.


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## CAP (Jun 18, 2014)

I don't agree with horses being stalled 24/7 for months on end.. 
I do agree some horses seem to like being stalled I saw a few when I was working at a boarding facility that loved there stall, and mine at home have the option to go in and out as they please and they spend more time in the stall then outside. 

I have stalled mine for periods of time during winter while I have them boarded out to ride but they were getting out daily for a hour or more being ridden in the area the days they couldn't be rode they were given free time in the area to play.. 

I am a firm believer in horses needing the chance to be horses, whether its them in a pen with some horsey friends, or kicked out to graze in a huge field, it's good for them physically and mentally.

I know a stud, who since he was 3 years old (now 13) has been stalled in a 10x10 stall, not a lot of room for a full grown stallion, he isn't rode every day, nore does he hardly get out of the barn (Unless a show or breeding).. which I get they weren't set up for a stud when they bought him, but over the years something should have been built so he could get out an be a horse! :evil:


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## SummerShy (Aug 3, 2014)

No, it's not abuse.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

As I said earlier I have always had horses in stables especially over the winter. 
These horses are ridden daily and ridden for good solid exercise to get the. Fit for Fox Hunting or Steeplechasing/Point to Pointing. 

I have also had horses that have been injured and had to have box rest for months at a time, the longest was for nine months when he never set foot out of the door. 
I have not had any problem and nor has the horse. 
The barn was designed to be open, block walls to 3'9" and then vertical rails above so all could be seen. No box had a window as such but the top doors to each stable was utilised as a window in the outside wall so unless the weather was really bad, they could not only see all that was going on on the barn but also what was going on outside, 

I found that the only time horses used field shelters was when the weather wa hot and the flies about. To silly to go inside in inclement weather!
A froend of mine had her horses out 24/7 with lovely big field shelters which were never used by the horses until she got some rescue donkeys who would use the shelters I. Bad weather. The moment the donkeys went inside the horses would follow, she found that her feed bills went down consoderably after getting the donkeys because the horses were not outside shivering their weight off in the driving rain.


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## CAP (Jun 18, 2014)

Since I wasn't really clear in my first post, I don't think stalling is abuse I stall mine when I do board out during the winter, due to sliders. At home they have the option to go into the stalls if they want other then that, whatever might come up.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Jumping4Joy said:


> This video was made by one of my favorite equestrians on YouTube, RaleighLink14. ]



There are so many good videos on YouTube that you can watch and learn from. To say that this is an equestrian that is a favourite is a sad situation. 

I have watched several of Raleigh14 videos and, even allowing for the fact that equestrians will have many ways to reach the same goal, this slip of a girl has really very little idea of Horsemanship. 
*She is an accident waiting to happen!*


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^This.

I think it's interesting how people were up in arms about that girl who rides bareback without any tack at all. I think her name is Alicia? Anyway, that girl is posting videos of herself riding (that's it) and people freak out.

This girl is preaching and giving people blatantly dangerous advise and wrong information, and people seem to be ok with it xD Oh the irony


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## budley95 (Aug 15, 2014)

I can't watch the video as youtubes blocked at work, but simply answering whether I think it's abuse or not, does the girl take into account when horse NEED to be in? I had enough of people telling me I was cruel for keeping in during the day through the summer this year. My horse NEEDS to be in during the day of a summer, he's allergic to pollen so leaving him out leads to a respiratory attack - surely that counts as abuse more so? He comes in of a night in the winter as it gets cold, he gets clipped for his workload and I like to give him respite from the rain and mud and get him off the field for a good few hours for the field to have a break for a bit too! Plus he'd be the only one out and I think leaving a horse alone is a lot crueller than bringing him in to his balancer in a snack'o'ball and ad lib soaked hay and a warm big paper bed! 

Would be interesting to know what the youtuber makes of horses that require boxrest due to injury that requires immobilisation, i.e. pedal bone fracture?


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> There are so many good videos on YouTube that you can watch and learn from. To say that this is an equestrian that is a favourite is a sad situation.
> 
> I have watched several of Raleigh14 videos and, even allowing for the fact that equestrians will have many ways to reach the same goal, this slip of a girl has really very little idea of Horsemanship.
> *She is an accident waiting to happen!*


I like her videos because she is not afraid to share her opinion. I do not consider her as a role model, but as a peer, and it's interesting to see how others view the horseworld. I wear a helmet, don't consider stalls abuse, and have my own mind, so I don't take a lot of her opinions to heart because, they are, her opinions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jackboy (Jul 8, 2012)

I didn't read all the replies but I do not stall mine they have a choice either go in the barn or not. There are a lot of opinions out there but that's really all they are I don't like to see a horse be stalled but I know not everyone can have acres for them to run around on. If this is abuse so is keeping a dog indoors or on a chain or in a small fence which I don't do but if our animals are in good health and happy whose to say what goes on with them this girl in the video is a case it's people like her that makes it rough on the knowledgeable horseman an women


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'd as soon be pistol-whipped as listen to her entire video. 

My three horses live in a corral. This is southern Arizona, and very few horses have any pasture. The corral is L-shaped, with each leg about 90 feet long. There is a wash (dry creek) about 50 feet from the corral that is used by coyotes and javelina regularly.

They consider the corral their safe place. When Mia's saddle slipped sideways and I bailed off her, she ran to the corral. 

They once got out of both the corral and the outer fence. I went out in the dark to toss them hay, and no horses were waiting. Uh-oh. When we finally found a flashlight, the 3 of them were standing together on the wrong side of the outer fence. They couldn't figure out where the gate was, but they were waiting for us to rescue them and get them in the corral. We dropped a section of fence and they rushed in to...the corral. Mia then took up her role as spokeswoman for the corral, and whinnied for their hay. 

I realize that is not the same as a stall. But where I live, the local 'stables' have pipe stalls about 20x20 with a shade covering about a third of it. They can see the other horses around them and people going by. When I took lessons there, it was NEVER a problem getting a horse to go back in its stall. It was more of a problem to not be run over by a horse trying to get in its stall. I never, ever saw a horse try to avoid going into its stall.

Mostly, the horses hung out and acted like a bunch of old ladies peering out their windows and making comments about others...'_Ginny, did you see the size of Copper's butt? OMG! She needs to get out more! Of course, that Arabian down the way has no butt at all, and she thinks she is such a princess. I don't know why her owner keeps her._"

BTW - my supposedly hyperactive Border Collie follows me around the house, curling up next to my feet whenever I stop moving. Hence his nickname: "*Jack the Slipper*". If he needs to run for miles, he hides it well. They adapt.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

CAP said:


> I don't agree with horses being stalled 24/7 for months on end..
> 
> I know a stud, who since he was 3 years old (now 13) has been stalled in a 10x10 stall, not a lot of room for a full grown stallion, he isn't rode every day, nore does he hardly get out of the barn (Unless a show or breeding).. which I get they weren't set up for a stud when they bought him, but over the years something should have been built so he could get out an be a horse! :evil:


This is kind of the same situation I was referring to. I know with the horses we had their problems were from neglect not being stalled. 
There is a legitimate debate to be made on stalling versus pasture when it comes to horses, but not with this girl's argument.
I wonder if this is what I sounded like as a teenager. Thank god we didn't have youtube.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

Stalls are not abusive.
You shouldn't let your horse be in a stall 24/7 either.

The only times I stall my horse is at fair - for about four to five days. A year and thats it.
When I take hime out on a free day after he has been cooped up for a day or two, I take him out and ride him and he feels like he is 10 years old again, racehorse speeds and so freaking happy to be able to move around and run.

But even then stalls are not abuse.
under certain circumstances, it could - but more than likely stalled horses are very well cared for and looked after and taken out at least once a week.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Jumping4Joy said:


> I like her videos because she is not afraid to share her opinion. I do not consider her as a role model, but as a peer, and it's interesting to see how others view the horseworld. I wear a helmet, don't consider stalls abuse, and have my own mind, so I don't take a lot of her opinions to heart because, they are, her opinions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfortunately many do see her as a guru and a role model.


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Zexious said:


> ^This.
> 
> I think it's interesting how people were up in arms about that girl who rides bareback without any tack at all. I think her name is Alicia? Anyway, that girl is posting videos of herself riding (that's it) and people freak out.
> 
> This girl is preaching and giving people blatantly dangerous advise and wrong information, and people seem to be ok with it xD Oh the irony


I like Alicia. Her palomino paint horse is gorgeous and the fact that she jumps, what 6ft?, BAREBACK and bridleless is awesome.


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> Unfortunately many do see her as a guru and a role model.


It is unfortunate. Many of them are very young and naive/inexperienced. A lot of them think that because she's trained horses and apparently does her horses feet and other things herself, she must be amazing because she's so young.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Roman--I like her too. My point was that people were concerned she was provoking novice riders to do unsafe things simply by posting videos of her riding. Which I find ironic because this girl preaches unsafe/untrue things xD

Jumping--Speaking your mind/having an opinion is one thing. It's another to be rude, ill informed, and preaching it like it's "God's" word xD

EDIT--I wanted to edit this to add... 
Just look at all the comments on her page. If she says something really stupid, she just disables comments. They're all words of affirmation, all from novice individuals agreeing with these ridiculous points of view. In my opinion, that's very irresponsible.


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