# Saddleseat??



## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

There's already a gaited portion..

But yeah, I know many on here who'd like to see that


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Gaited and saddleseat arent the same. I ride saddlebreds saddleseat and they arent gaited horses.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

I don't think that's necessary... Not very many people ride Saddleseat.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

I know that. But Saddleseat can refer to TWs too.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

TWHs, ASBs, morgans, arabs, missouri fox trotters, all kinds of gaited horses are ridden saddleseat. A lot of people ride saddleseat.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Then you must see why I related 'saddleseat' with 'gaited'.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> TWHs, ASBs, morgans, arabs, missouri fox trotters, all kinds of gaited horses are ridden saddleseat. A lot of people ride saddleseat.




Maybe, but it still doesn't compare to the amount of people who do dressage, jumping, and eventing. There is a very small amount of saddleseat threads on this forum. Within those, most of them can be put in the gaited horse section. There doesn't really need to be a whole new section just for Arabians, non-gaited Saddlebreds, and non-gaited Morgans.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

it would be nice to have a sub-section in gaited or english for saddleseat, though.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

_Another_ sub-section? Don't we have like 50 of those?


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Well, no one cares about Saddleseat, except those rare few who are devoted. People who ride dressage or hunt seat or event usually view it as an inferior style of riding, and many people don't really know what it is, or only view it as what those awful TWH soring people ride. If you read on Trot lately, the USEF doesn't even list it on their national discipline list. They list SS Eq, but USEF doesn't judge Eq, and Eq isn't the only form. That is why I go to www.Trot.org and www.modern-saddlebred.com for people who truly understand. 

I have yet to go to a general horse forum where Saddleseat is represented in any fasion. If I have a Saddleseat question, I post where people are sure to know. It is not that "most people don't ride saddleseat" it is that those who do post elsewhere.

Yes, TWHs are ridden saddleseat, but Saddleseat does not equal gaited. American Saddlebreds don't count as a truly gaited breed as only a select few are chosen to be taught the extra gaits, andalusians aren't gaited, morgans aren't gaited, arabs aren't gaited, NSHs aren't gaited, fresians aren't gaited, appy's aren't gaited.... Saddleseat is not gaited, and so the Gaited forum does not suffice for Saddleseat Discussion.

Until our numbers grow, LTS, I'd say we are stuck using the English Riding section for Saddleseat Discussion, or going elsewhere.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

I think it's kind of sad you guys are saying we just don't care about saddleseat, it's been around longer than the "NH" following and it has a subdivision. Maybe it isn't neccessary to make a subforum for it, but be more tactful. 
And I love the sixteen hands between your legs quote! That's great!


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

BTW I don't think of it as inferior, It just would be much easier to equitate with a smooth riding saddleseat horse.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

It is a fact that a lot of dressage/hunt/event riders think it is inferior. Nearly every person of those backgrounds that I have spoken with has told me as much. And that is not just a handful of riders. What is sad to me is that those people I have spoken with go out of their way to say rude things about my style of riding and my horses. Now I have *NOT* found that to be the case on this forum. 

I did not specifically say that the Horse Forum specifically doesn't care. I said that no one really cares about it except those devoted to it. Which again is true. It is not being whiney, indignant, or anything, it is merely how other people have expressed their feelings towards the discipline to me. 

Because the riding of Saddleseat is in a severe minority here, there is no reason for there to be a sub section, really. Why have a section of the forum that will not be heavily used? While I think there should be one, I don't think we will ever get one. Part of the reason there are not many SS riders on the forum is because there is no place for them. There is nothing to draw them to this forum. There are other reasons I hang around and greatly enjoy this forum.


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## trashcanchaser (Sep 21, 2009)

i think it would be nice to have a saddle seat section as well. the majority of horses that are ridden in saddle seat are not walking horse. there are saddlebreds arabians national show horses, hackney ponies. it would not hurt anything so i dont see why it couldnt happen


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

I love Saddleseat. Really do, but 'new posts' works perfectly fine.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

LadyDreamer said:


> It is a fact that a lot of dressage/hunt/event riders think it is inferior. Nearly every person of those backgrounds that I have spoken with has told me as much. And that is not just a handful of riders. What is sad to me is that those people I have spoken with go out of their way to say rude things about my style of riding and my horses. Now I have *NOT* found that to be the case on this forum.
> 
> I did not specifically say that the Horse Forum specifically doesn't care. I said that no one really cares about it except those devoted to it. Which again is true. It is not being whiney, indignant, or anything, it is merely how other people have expressed their feelings towards the discipline to me.
> 
> Because the riding of Saddleseat is in a severe minority here, there is no reason for there to be a sub section, really. Why have a section of the forum that will not be heavily used? While I think there should be one, I don't think we will ever get one. Part of the reason there are not many SS riders on the forum is because there is no place for them. There is nothing to draw them to this forum. There are other reasons I hang around and greatly enjoy this forum.


I've never had anyone tell me that Saddleseat is inferior. I've had people call saddlebreds 'Gaited horses' but nothing else. I dont ride saddlebreds and saddleseat exclusively, though. I ride hunter, I foxhunt, I ride western, side saddle, I drive.. I do pretty much everything. I just think its sad there isn't somewhere for the saddleseat riders, because even though we're few (which honestly, we're not.. I go to saddleseat shows and theres plenty of enthusiasts) we're devoted.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> And I love the sixteen hands between your legs quote! That's great!


Aint it? My friend and I were on a trail ride and I was riding her OTTB and I loved him and we were sitting there and I said "Gosh, theres just nothing like sixteen hands between your legs" we were both laughing the whole ride home


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

There's too little activity in the gaited forumm, why not keep saddleseat there too? That way at least the forum would be used more and both ''sides'' would benefit since there'd be more threads. I figure that if you see a thread that sounds interesting you read and leave a comment.. but you won't go looking for threads much in other forums than the ones you usually hang around in.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

If you have a section 'saddleseat', then the 'side-saddlers' and 'Aussie riders' and all the other smaller disciplines would want one. 

Perhaps a sadleseat subsection in the gaited section?


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Subsections kinda suck anyway.

But perhaps sidesaddles should have one..


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

If it is to be a sub section, it should be an "English" subsection, or a separate forum in the "Riding Horses" section of the forum. Definitely not a subsection of a subsection, let alone the gaited section.

As a side note, a sidesaddle is legal equipment in Saddlebred Saddleseat shows.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Actually, no. I think Saddleseat discussion should be kept to in the main English forum, where this topic is posted. I am not changing my opinion, because I still feel strongly that Saddleseat should be represented, but no need to make a big deal over it.

Really though, I feel that all USEF disciplines should have their own place. However, I think that many can be combined. Reining could easily have its own sub section, but that could be combined with Western. The more I think about it there isn't really any need for additional forums, except for maybe a section for Para-Equestrians, Vaulting, Roadsters, and Parade....

Maybe a "Misc." section(excluding the Para-equestrian which I think would be a better new forum choice than Saddleseat, which fits well in the English section). 

All USEF recognized disciplines.

International
Combined Driving 
Dressage 
Endurance 
Eventing 
Jumping 
Para-Equestrian (<<<--- this needs to be a new section. With all the interest in Therapy Horses/programs, I think this would be a great thing)
Reining 
Vaulting 

National
Carriage Pleasure Driving 
Hunter 
Hunter Seat Equitation 
Parade Horse 
Roadster 
Saddle Seat Equitation 
Western 
Western Seat / Reining Seat Equitation

And to clarify the Sidesaddle thing, I find this pretty dang cool: Did you know... - Trot.org Forums
^That is why I love Trot.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm perfectly happy with what this forum has already provided us


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## PoohLP (Jan 15, 2009)

Isn't the gaited section under "Horse Breeds?" The problem with that is it kind of takes a leap to think to look there for riding related info there. I don't think it's unreasonable to add a specific SS section under the riding section, whether as a subsection or as a separate discipline. It might help to attract some new people to the forum and help to spread information about a pretty cool discipline. 

For SS enthusiasts - does the Rack not count as a gait?


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

Yes, PoohLP, the rack is a gait. The walk trot and canter are gaits as well. And you are also correct that there is a gaited section. However, since SS is not specifically for "gaited" breeds, SS would be a better fit in the English, or other riding sections. I personally would not post a SS related topic in the gaited forum, because I don't consider my breed a true gaited breed. I would post where this topic is posted, in the English riding section, becuause it is a style of english riding, no matter what the beastie you are riding is doing with his feet. It is all semantics and technicalities.


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## PoohLP (Jan 15, 2009)

LadyDreamer said:


> Yes, PoohLP, the rack is a gait. The walk trot and canter are gaits as well.


Ok, so I guess my question is if the Saddlebreds tend to have that extra gait, the rack, why do they not count as a gaited breed? I thought that having the extra gaits, beyond WTC, is what makes a horse gaited?

This has nothing at all to do with where topics should or shouldn't be posted, I'm just using the opportunity created by this discussion to get an answer to something that sort of confuses me.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

The American Saddlebred is predominantly a Trotting breed with the ability to _learn _the rack and the slow gait. Many young foals will rack out in the field as it is easier to keep up with mom that way(well, my babies this year thought they were thoroughbreds and RAN everywhere they went), but once they develop their trot, they usually keep it. The true natural gaited Saddlebreds(natural in the way of how TWHs do their little gait all the time) are few and far between.

If the Saddlebred does not exhibit certain traits that are desirable in the show ring as a five gaited horse, or would look better as a three gaited or harness horse, then it is not worth the time to gait them. 

There are many factors that go into deciding whether or not a Saddlebred is going to be taught. Some bloodlines favor gaited horses. The conformation of the horse, from the placement of the neck, to the back, to the shape/curve/placement of the legs. It is said that a cowhocked horse is easier to rack than a very straight legged horse. Also refinement. Usually, five gaited saddlebreds, are thicker, more massive, and can be a little coarse as compared to a trimmed 3 gaited horse who needs exceptional refinement. The shape and natural growth of the foot, especially the hind feet are great factors to consider. I have a two year old who we originally thought would make a nice gaited horse, but the simple shape of his back feet will get in his way when it comes to sliding into the gait. And then the inclination to learn. A horse that is more lateral will be easier to teach. Bloodlines also play a part in the mind, temperament and trainability of the horse. 

All Saddlebreds _can_ learn, but only those who meet the requirements are taught. Heck, if they would make a better three gaited horse, then that is the division they need to focus on. To a lot of trainers, there is no point in gaiting a horse that will not be competitive in that division.

Here is a good article for you. Getting the first steps. How a young Saddlebred is taught to rack. | Trot.org


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## StormRider (Apr 18, 2007)

trashcanchaser said:


> the majority of horses that are ridden in saddle seat are not walking horse. there are saddlebreds arabians national show horses, hackney ponies. it would not hurt anything so i dont see why it couldnt happen


You have forgotten to mention Morgans, Morabs, Fresians, Hackneys, and Appaloosas.

As far as Saddleseat being considered a smooth gaited then you probably haven't ridden a Saddleseat horse with perpulsion in the back end. These horses have a lot of hock action that don't necessarily make it so smooth, atleast at the trot.

There is more to Saddleseat then "fire breathing horses with lots of action and horses that are on the redline between sanity and insanity, lol"!


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

LadyDreamer said:


> Actually, no. I think Saddleseat discussion should be kept to in the main English forum, where this topic is posted. I am not changing my opinion, because I still feel strongly that Saddleseat should be represented, but no need to make a big deal over it.
> 
> Really though, I feel that all USEF disciplines should have their own place. However, I think that many can be combined. Reining could easily have its own sub section, but that could be combined with Western. The more I think about it there isn't really any need for additional forums, except for maybe a section for Para-Equestrians, Vaulting, Roadsters, and Parade....
> 
> ...


I really second your sections or sub sections being based on USEF Disciplines, and since I live with a serious computer programer who does it for a living I kind of know what it takes to create a section and its not much, its a stock template for each forum and you name them and decide how you want it linked, as a forum or sub forum. If the messages just get moved to another forum it doesnt take more memory, the memory is just moved to a different location. Now I am sure the webmasters here are plenty busy, and they probably dont want to invest time into creating sections no one uses or see the site get cluttered and people getting lost. But the theraoy horse section is great! I have dealt with challenged individuals and know of one who I have to see at the barn regularly and I would love to discuss with others how to make the situation safe, activities that are appropriate, general rules one should follow. 

When it comes to smoothness if asking for a true collected trot on any horse their hock action should increase so they take smaller steps by engaging their hind end not just plodding lazily, thusly resulting in a smoother more appropriate trot to sit, so I don't think having more hock action makes a horse less smooth, gaited horses have proved that the more action the smoother the horse, but having a powerful horse underneath you can make their movement more exagerated seeming.


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## StormRider (Apr 18, 2007)

Maybe so, but not all Morgans are gaited. 
Just curious how many people on here have actually ridden saddleseat and if so how long have you and what breeds have you ridden saddleseat?


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

StormRider said:


> Maybe so, but not all Morgans are gaited.
> Just curious how many people on here have actually ridden saddleseat and if so how long have you and what breeds have you ridden saddleseat?


I rode Saddleseat for ten years. I've showed Saddlebreds and Arabians and ridden Morgans and Hackneys. I loved Saddleseat (still do), but I still don't think enough people do it for a subsection to be necessary. If you make a subsection for every discipline, then what will be left for the main English Riding section?


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## StormRider (Apr 18, 2007)

I have ridden saddleseat for 27 years. I have ridden Saddlebreds, Arabs, and Morgans. I prefer Morgans...I think Morgans are awesome.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

StormRider said:


> I have ridden saddleseat for 27 years. I have ridden Saddlebreds, Arabs, and Morgans. I prefer Morgans...I think Morgans are awesome.


I like Saddlebreds the best. Hackneys are really fun, but I wouldn't want to ride one regularly. The only Arabs I've ridden have been either school horses or thousand-year-old retired show horses, so I can't give a good opinion on them. EVERY single Morgan I've met was a complete B**** or a psycho, so they are definitely not my favorite.

Another thing... Is it just me, or are 90% of Morgans mares? I know they must exist, but I don't think I've ever heard of anyone owning or riding a Morgan stallion or gelding, haha.


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## StormRider (Apr 18, 2007)

Well in my experience the Saddlebreds were the nut cases. There are a ton of Morgan Geldings in Upstate NY. There are Morgan Stallions that get shown as well. The mares are in the minority to the geldings. I would take a good Morgan mare anyday over any gelding. 
I think some people tend to be better with mares then others. Just as some breeds are better for some people then others.


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

StormRider said:


> Well in my experience the Saddlebreds were the nut cases. There are a ton of Morgan Geldings in Upstate NY. There are Morgan Stallions that get shown as well. The mares are in the minority to the geldings. I would take a good Morgan mare anyday over any gelding.
> I think some people tend to be better with mares then others. Just as some breeds are better for some people then others.



I have definitely known some crazy Saddlebreds. My first horse (a Saddlebred) was absolutely CRAZY. I mean... he would buck you off and spin around and try to trample you like a bull. But the majority of Saddlebreds I know are really sweet and good-natured.

I agree that some people are better with mares than others. I don't think I'm better with one or the other, though. I've had two horses I didn't get along with - a mare and a gelding, and three horses I have gotten along with - two geldings and one mare. I've gotten along with the last mare the most, by far.


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## StormRider (Apr 18, 2007)

One cannot say that all of one breed is bad,lol. I prefer my Morgans they tend to have a certain attitude that I like. I have ridden numerous horses. But I have only owned 5 show horses. Three of them were Morgans, 1 ASB and one QH. I have only ever had one show horse at a time. Out of the 5 horses 3 were geldings and two were mares.
I really liked my mares better then my geldings. My mares had better manners then the gledings.
I have ridden about 50 horses since I started riding till now. I have shown lesson horses when I was younger and then I starting showing other people's horses. By riding so many different horses I learned alot about horses and more about myself over the years. I did not start showing my own horses until 1989-present. 
It can be very difficult to find a horse that is the "perfect fit" which I did find her in 2000, and I still have her today at age 17. I do not know if I will ever find another "perfect fit" horse again. 
BTW my ASB was an awesome carriage driving horse but a not so great riding horse.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

I can see where Morgan people would see Saddlebreds as nuts and vice versa. They are two different types of "hot". Saddlebred people are used to this type, while morgans are of another type. I am -a Saddlebred girl and don't like Arab-hot. I just don't know it and we don't mesh. I don't like TB-hot. I ride the ultimate TB product. The raw form is a little too hot for me. 

I have a little Morgan mare friend. She is a GAME sister! Sweet as can be, but snorty, flighty, and as game as any Saddlebred I have met! I'd almost call her nuts, but she just has a motor.


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## StormRider (Apr 18, 2007)

I think some people outside of saddleseat, don't understand why saddleseat is so fun for us. Its a total adrenaline rush for me. My sassy little morgan mare, loves saddleseat and also likes huntseat. Strange combination, I know. She can go from hot to calm in a short time.


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