# When to use martingales or breastplates.



## megannnn

well i dont event (yet)
but we use breastplates when the saddle slips back alot. 

and we use martingales when a horse throws its head alot or carries his head very high making it hard to control him.

but the one thing i do know is NEVER EVER EVER use a martingale on cross country.
thats a very big NONO


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## Beau Baby

okay. does it look like we'd need a breastplate? We're only doing pre-entry this year so the jumps aren't very high but when I'm on him it seems like the saddle slips back a bit and in the last picture it looks kinda far back. Is it just me wanting more tack or does it look like we need one.


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## wild_spot

There is no reason not to use a martingale cross country if it is needed - many Olympic level riders have martingales on CC.

You should not need to rely on a breast plate to prevent your saddle slipping back - A well-fitted saddle should not move much when riding. It CAN be used for some added stability.

I personally use breastplate because I like the look - I feel they 'complete the picture' when jumping - though they are a no-no in dressage.

A martingale should only be used if your horse tosses his head high enough to hit you in the face - Which from your photos, I don't think is an issue he has. (He is absolutely adorable, by the way!)

So basically - Get a breastplate if you want - it may give your saddle a bit of extra stability and will also look good. Only go to a martingale if it is needed.


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## kmacdougall

megannnn said:


> but the one thing i do know is NEVER EVER EVER use a martingale on cross country.
> thats a very big NONO


Incorrect.
Well fitted martingales are very much acceptable for cross country, as well as in the case of some riders, a necessity. 

My horse is a head-flipper (Arab). He REQUIRES the martingale, because sometimes he literally will throw his nose in the air and BOLT. I paid a lot of cash for my saddle and appreciate that it is a no-slip situation, so a breastplate isn't necessary. I wasn't in the position to pay $200+ for a breastplate (my gear is "hazelnut" colored) when I actually did run CC, so I rode it in the martingale. It was perfectly fine and a lot of other riders did the same.
I know a lot of eventers use their martingales/breastplates for double purpose - to control the head/stop saddle slippage but as well as to have a "safety strap" available in case something goes wrong. I've clung to mine on a few occasions!


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## kitten_Val

I use breastplate, because I like the look.  Plus there is a withers strip I can use if I have to get on. Martingales are more for the horses with nose in air, your horse doesn't look like he needs any.


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## StormyBlues

I use a breastplate in all three phases and think it completes the entire look and package. A horse doesn't look complete without a breastplate to me.  I use a standard black breastplate in dressage, and a five way out on the XC and in the stadium ring. I like having the strap on the withers to use to know if my hands are too up his neck (one of my big issues), and even though my saddle is custom to his back, I like the reasurance that the breastplate gives me. 

It looks like you could benifit from one when you start doing banks and such because he looks like he has a round back that is perfect for saddle slipage! 

Oh and he's ADORABLE by the way!  And welcome to the world of eventing!


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## wild_spot

^ As far as I know in Australia it's illegal to use a breastplate in dressage, I guess it's different over there?


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## StormyBlues

No, because it's allowed in FEI competitions. And it's done all over Europe and I know that Mark Todd (new zealand) uses a breastgirth in dressage. I'd check the rule book because that would make it the only country I know of with the rule against dressage breastplates.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer

I use a breast plate in Dressage too Stormy


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## eventerdrew

I use a breastplate in dressage as well. It just keeps my saddle in place and shines up the whole package.


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## wild_spot

*Shrugs* I don't do open events anymore, so I don't know the rule, but if it isn't illegal it is certainly a big ettiquette thing to never wear a breastplate in dressage.

Different countries, different cultures.


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## MIEventer

Eventing Rules different from single comp rules. So where one would not wear a Breastplate in USDF Dressage Comps, it is not against the rules at USEA Events from low levels to upper.


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## gypsygirl

you can always use a running martingale on xc, but you cannot use a standing martingale...just to clear things up


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## Allison Finch

megannnn said:


> well i dont event (yet)
> but we use breastplates when the saddle slips back alot.
> 
> and we use martingales when a horse throws its head alot or carries his head very high making it hard to control him.
> 
> but the one thing i do know is NEVER EVER EVER use a martingale on cross country.
> thats a very big NONO


You're kidding.....right?

Running martingales are a yes yes......standing martingales are a no no.

I almost always use a breastplate in the jumping phases. I consider it a piece of safety equipment. Running martingales as needed. I never use a bib style martingale. I have a "sliding" martingale where the rings are on a piece of leather that slides through the ring on the breast plate. This allows much better turning capacity. You can sorta see it on this pic;










This running martingale is very hard to find, sadly.

Another piece of safety gear I use at prelim or above is an overgirth. You simply cannot be too safe, IMHO.


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## MIEventer

> Another piece of safety gear I use at prelim or above is an overgirth. You simply cannot be too safe, IMHO.


You know, it's funny that you mention that. Back in Canada we used Over Girths ALL the time, regardless of what level you were doing. Especially seen in the Pony Club crowd.

I come to the U.S and to Michigan - and no one knows what I am talking about. 

Another thing, back in B.C growing up and in Pony Club, we all taped our buckes on our bridles - here, I never see anyone doing it.


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## StormyBlues

Once I got preliminary I'm going to use an overgirth. And I think taping the bridle buckles is a great idea!!!!! I think I might start doing that at some point!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer

Yeah, we used Electrical Tape that matched our colors. 

My friend who was Red and White, used red tape over her buckles. My other friend who was Forrest Green and Black, used Green Electrical Tape.


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## kitten_Val

gypsygirl said:


> you can always use a running martingale on xc, but you cannot use a standing martingale...just to clear things up


It's actually interesting. Can you use standing in jumping show ring? The jumping barn I used to take lessons in is very much against running martingales, but like standing ones. Well, I don't use any, but the trainer said said don't use running. Another trainer I talked to said use running at all times, because "it helps lighten horse on front". :shock:


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## kitten_Val

Allison Finch said:


> This running martingale is very hard to find, sadly.


How come? I'd think they are sold everywhere... Or do you mean something else by "running martingale"?


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## My Beau

kitten_Val said:


> How come? I'd think they are sold everywhere... Or do you mean something else by "running martingale"?


I think she means the sliding running martingale, it isn't a sewn attachment to the yoke so it allows the actual martingale arms to change lengths as needed


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## MIEventer

> It's actually interesting. Can you use standing in jumping show ring? The jumping barn I used to take lessons in is very much against running martingales, but like standing ones. Well, I don't use any, but the trainer said said don't use running. Another trainer I talked to said use running at all times, because "it helps lighten horse on front". :shock:


It's quite sad actually Kitten_Val. 

Standing Martingales are very popular in the Hunter World. "Oh, my horse throws his head up, must tie it down to teach the horse" or "Oh, my horse goes around like a girraffe, must tie the head down to teach my horse that this is not right"

Bah!!! Gadgets that mute the issue, and develop issues in the long run. The moment you take it off, the horse goes back to carrying their head's high. 
I have a young friend who's TB goes around with his head high, what did her Hunter/Jumper coach say to do? Throw a Standing on. She wants to Event, so she showed up at an Eventing Clinic and the Upper Level Eventer saw this when they entered the ring, and she had her take it off asap. They are illegal in Eventing.
Standing Martingales can develop issues with long term use. Horses can end up stiffer, develop incorrect muscles due to the horses bracing against them, and when the rider goes around not changing their ways, nothing ends up being corrected or fixed in the long run, because they are relying on this gadget to do their job instead....which it wont. 
Also, Standing Martingales should not be used when jumping 3'0" or higher. They restrict the horses head, which is what they use when they jump, and accidents can occur. Upper Level Jumpers use Running Martingales, now that I think about it - I don't think I've ever seen them use a Standing.
I greatly dislike Standing's VERY MUCH. They are gadgets, they are there for the human, not the horse. Man made, for man.


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## kitten_Val

Thanks for explaining, MIEventer. I do get a feeling sometime that some trainers are just not uneducated about the certain equipment. And don't get me wrong, they still may be great trainers in all other aspects, but then you ask a question or make a statement (say about the bit) and they look at you as at the idiot (even though you did lots of research and know what you are talking about).


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## kitten_Val

My Beau said:


> I think she means the sliding running martingale, it isn't a sewn attachment to the yoke so it allows the actual martingale arms to change lengths as needed


Oh, I see... Yes, I havn't seen those around. I guess they are not popular?


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## kmacdougall

Hey MIE, I'm up here in Canadialanda! We never used overgirths but we did tape EVERYTHING, as well as braiding the crownpiece into the mane, and braiding martingales into the mane.


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## megannnn

kmacdougall said:


> Incorrect.
> Well fitted martingales are very much acceptable for cross country, as well as in the case of some riders, a necessity.


sorry then ive been taught wrong. i have been told by my old trainer never ever to use a martingale when doing cross country. perhaps thats the reason shes my old trainer?

well disregard that comment then


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## wild_spot

Standing martingales should not be used in jumping, ever, IMO - And here in AUS they are illegal in all Show Jumping, Equitation and Eventing. 

The problem is that they cannot be released if needed, particularly over a jump - Whereas a running martingale can be released by simply giving with the rein. With a standing, you either have to have it too long to be effective to ensure it doesn't catch your horses head when they jump, or it is short enough to be effective but will restrict the horses head when jumping bigger jumps or spreads.


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## megannnn

what do running martingales do? like i dont get how they work.


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## StormyBlues

They keep the horse from throwing thier head too high, but they don't become effective until the horse's head is really high. That's simplified. MIE or Allison can explain it alot better!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## megannnn

okay thats what i thought.

im in between trainers right now. and my old one is horrible. I feel like im starting over. everything she has said to me seems to be wrong when i mention it to someone else. if that makes sense?
she obviously wasnt good.and i dont really know what is right and what is wrong. so please feel free to fully explain things to me

so im looking for a new trainer if anyone knows one in the northern IL area?? just throwing that out there


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## StormyBlues

Check association websites like the USEA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wild_spot

A running martingale has only ONE purpose - To prevent the horse throwing it's head so high it may hit the rider in the face or inhibit normal rein contact. If it is used for any other reason, it is being misused. The martingale shoudl sit dormant until the horse tosses it's head.

Depending on the length of the horses neck, the rings should generally be long enough to reach back to the wither or up to the throatlatch. (I can't find the picture!).

This makes sure that the martingale doesn't interfere with the reins during the horses normal range of head movement. 

If the horse does toss it's head, all the rider has to do is maintain contact, and the martingale will effect the reins, putting downwards pressure on the bit. 

The best feature of the running martingale is that it can be released by simply giving rein - So if a horse freaks out at the sensation, or there is some kind of emergency, the pressure can be released in an instant.


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## megannnn

okay that makes alot of sense...
and is wayy different from what i was taught.


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## wild_spot

^ Many, many people are taught the incorrect use of them, and countless people use them to 'create' a headset, not knowing that they are misusing the equipment. When used to create a false headset, they are quite harsh, as it becomes constant downward pressure on the bars of the mouth.


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## gypsygirl

what part of northern IL ??


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## Allison Finch

kitten_Val said:


> How come? I'd think they are sold everywhere... Or do you mean something else by "running martingale"?


 
This is not a common running martingale. It is a sliding running martingale. The rings are on a piece of leather that slides through the breastplate ring. It allows the rings to slide when making tight turns. Regular running martingales can restrict a tight turn.


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## Allison Finch

That sliding martingale is a little different than mine, but the same effect. They should be a lot more common at the higher levels, IMO.

Standing martingales are illegal in all jumping phases in eventing for a good reason. If a horse falls in a water jump, the standing martingale may restrict the horse from lifting its head above water causing it to drown. Sadly, I know of a person who didn't think about taking her standing off when she took her horse swimming. Terribly sad outcome.......


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## kitten_Val

Allison Finch said:


> Standing martingales are illegal in all jumping phases in eventing for a good reason. If a horse falls in a water jump, the standing martingale may restrict the horse from lifting its head above water causing it to drown. Sadly, I know of a person who didn't think about taking her standing off when she took her horse swimming. Terribly sad outcome.......


Wow! That's scary! I wonder why they use it in that barn. I know people there own very expensive hunters/jumpers and go to the shows all the time (including traveling to FL in winter). I actually don't take lessons there at the moment, but I definitely gonna ask for reason when I'll be around there.


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## StormyBlues

Because they want to "control" their horse because they arn't good enough riders to correct the problem properly.


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## megannnn

gypsygirl said:


> what part of northern IL ??


 
well around the border/ over the boarder of wisconsin and IL .
i live in lake county in IL. but anywhere around there


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## kitten_Val

StormyBlues said:


> Because they want to "control" their horse because they arn't good enough riders to correct the problem properly.


Stormy, but isn't it what instructor is for? To teach you to control the horse.


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## JustDressageIt

wild_spot said:


> Depending on the length of the horses neck, the rings should generally be long enough to reach back to the wither or up to the throatlatch. (I can't find the picture!).


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## wild_spot

Thats the one! Thanks JDI :]


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## StormyBlues

But the instructor is the one telling them to use gadgets most of the time :/


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## MIEventer

Yep - true that. I have a friend who is a Hunter/Jumper, 12 years old - and wanting to venture into the world of Eventing.

She has been taking lessons on her young OTTB gelding with a Hunter/Jumper coach who comes to our barn - during 1 lesson, only 1 lesson her horse was going around his with head up in the air, and the first thing he said was "Put a Standing Martingale On Him" and she did - so now she goes around with this gadget on her horse, without understanding the "reasons" behind it.

She believes it teaches a horse to keep his head down, when in reality it does not. She also believes that the Cavesson teaches the horse to keep their mouth closed......where she learnt that, I have no idea...but there it is. 

So yes, Coaches play a big role is their students education and beliefs on "tools" that are used by man, for man, on these horses to make things easier for us - not them. Then these students become coaches, and carry on what they were taught by these Coaches.


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## kitten_Val

StormyBlues said:


> But the instructor is the one telling them to use gadgets most of the time :/


I'd say not always. Some people get dumb advices on the Internet (like a magic bit you can control your horse 100% of time (and also do dressage, jumping, and cutting in it right away no training needed). :lol:

Personally I don't go with what trainer said right away (most of the time, although I was ripped once money-wise on pad, which would "correct my unbalanced(!!) riding"), if I'm not sure it's a good advice. I try to do research first. In the end that's what is brain for too!


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## StormyBlues

Well, not everyone does reserch into it. AND if someone is told something from a young age, they think it's the right thing. Like I was told "harsher bit, easier ride." Which is true to some extent, but only in the recent years am I learning how wrong this is!


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## kitten_Val

StormyBlues said:


> Well, not everyone does reserch into it. *AND if someone is told something from a young age, they think it's the right thing. *Like I was told "harsher bit, easier ride." Which is true to some extent, but only in the recent years am I learning how wrong this is!


Yes, that's a good point. I'm looking from the adult position of course.


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## MIEventer

Hence my post.


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## Amlalriiee

I'm a huge fan of breast collars/breast plates because I do a lot of trail riding and hill work. I think it may be a good precaution for you where your horse is wide in the girth area and looks like he may be one that the saddle would slip on. If you're not having any problems with that, then it isn't a necessity. It won't hurt though so that one is completely up to you and your needs!


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## fuadteagan

here is the disciplines defineeeetly barrel racing and um jumping yes depends on saddle and how high like little cross rails no over 3 ' 5 there okay um so yeah and actually some use for cross country


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