# Stalked by child molester while riding



## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Today I had the most terrifying thing happen while out trail riding with my friend. 

We went out riding together. I'm a 19 year old girl. My friend Paislee is 17. 

Coming home we were passed by a man in a motorized scooter. He had a basket full of groceries. He started talking to us and saying how he had 8 horses boarded near where we were riding. We nodded and smiled and kept going. Kenzie and Harley the horses were snorting and shying at him which is odd. They are very easy going horses. 

We rode a minute or so and Paislee got my attention and we saw the man had turned around and was staying about 100ft from our horses. We both agreed it was odd and had a bad feeling so we started to trot. The guy sped up. We slowed down and so did the guy. I lead her down a few side roads and he stayed right behind us at a trot. We ended up taking a much longer route that would put us back on the main trail just in case it was just him happening to be going in the same direction. 

Freaked out we asked the horses to canter and the guy fell back enough we felt safe enough to slow down so I could call my dad to come meet us. Both of us just knew something was wrong and the horses were throwing their heads, now wanting to stop which isnt' odd for Kenzie but not at all Harley's style .

Dad said he'd meet us but to keep moving and to not stop the horses until either he or the cops were there. 

We end up cantering them over two miles, the guy staying the same distance back the entire time. We finally ran across a couple on their bikes and told them what was happening. The husband went yelling and shouting at the man who turned around and took off and they waited with us until my dad arrived. A deputy showed up a few minutes later and took down our description of the man and they told us a man had been reported for stalking young women in the area. They'd had 17 complaints in two months, including a man taking pictures of girls. 

Dad escorted us home and the cops went to look for the man. They found him and he is a child molester and they believe he is the same man that's been stalking women. 

But the problem is he only follows the girls, he never threatens or touches them. Also except for the case of my friend they've all be adults. Not adult adults but around 18-20. He was also very careful to keep a certain distance back. 

They warned him to stay away from us, but the cops can't do anything. It our word against ours that he was following us and that he tried to speak to us. We did file a police statement so if he goes near us again we can call 911 and its another strike against him. 

I was crying by the time we got home and so was my friend. We both walk our dogs on that section of trail alone. I ride that way all the time all by myself. Who knows what could have happened if we alone and on foot. 

The horses did more then I could ever ask of them. I swear they knew that guy was bad news the second they saw him and I don't know if they picked up on our fear or what, but they never slowed, shied, or did anything while we were running. 

I'll admit I've become lax about keeping an eye out while riding. So I thought posting this would serve as a reminder to those of use, especially young women to keep an eye out and trust your horses instinct. 

Harley my PSSM boy did tie up after it. We were forced to stop and wait and then talk to the cops before we could cool him out. His hooves and Kenzie's are pretty torn up too. But they should be okay.


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

That is scary, glad to hear y'all are all safe. Good good ponies!


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## 3rdTimestheCharm (Jan 18, 2015)

I'm glad everything turned out alright! Horses can sense things about people, so maybe they did get a bad vibe from this guy. 

Thank you for posting this as a reminder for us to careful about other people when we're out riding.


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## Emoore (Sep 14, 2015)

Hopefully you've gotten some pepper spray?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

get a small can of mace to carry in your pocket.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

That's some really scary stuff. I am so glad your dad was able to come after you and you filed a police report.

It is even more sad that a woman isn't safe doing something as innocent as walking the dog or riding her horse.

I'm glad your friend was with you and many kudos to both of you for staying as calm as you did

Your remote trail riding days might be over. Even though he doesn't have a violent record YET, he's slowly working his way to one. Little-by-little they gain confidence to become more aggressive.

We once had a whackadoodle neighbor who liked to stand at his side door in a bath towel when I was mowing the side yard. After the third time, I told DH either he mowed that yard or it wasn't getting mowed. 

I ended up getting the guy arrested and whaddayaknow, this was his 4th exposing himself offense. He got his third offense while he was in jail for the second offense.

He was married, she finally left him when the landlord threw her out of the house after the husband's conviction.

I carried a gun with me to the barn, until his arrest and for a long time after he got out of jail, in case he might have wanted to get even.

And before they rented the house next to us, they were hiding out in a Mennonite Community! She said they became disillusioned with the lifestyle but looking back, I'm sure he exposed himself to someone and they got thrown out of the community.

The guy you saw on the moped won't go too far away, unless he has a truck he puts the moped in, then looks for places to drive around on the moped.

Keep your back covered, even when you're in your own yard or in the barn.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Mace!! It's cheap and easy to use. 

I ride a lot in a state park that connects a wealthy area (people who buy drugs) to a poor area (people who sell drugs)... I've come across more then my fair share of odd birds! 

But I think you did the right thing!


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm glad you are safe! That's very, very scary. I'm also glad the cops are aware of him, though I'm at a loss as to why they wouldn't do anything about a person who has had 17 complaints of harassment against them (stalking is counted as harassment in most areas), and is also a convicted child molester. 

Here is a good article about self defense on horseback. 

It might help you feel more confident to know and practice some of these tips, but I hope you never, ever need them. The only thing I will say is that if you get mace or pepper spray, be sure to practice with it. Unfortunately it's not a great weapon for horseback defense because you risk hitting your horse, thus disabling your best weapon in that scenario.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

I've got mace and a taser now! Dad took me out and bought them right away. 

Yeah no riding for awhile, I've cancelled the memorial ride I was going to do on the 30th. Kenzie is limping. I think she stepped on a rock or something and tore out a nice chunk of sole. Even so I honestly don't feel safe right now riding out alone for some time. 

This is far from his first offense like Walk said. He's been doing this for several months. First taking pictures. Then talking to girls. Now following. He kept trying to tell us he had horses nearby and kept repeating that. I guess he thought we'd be stupid enough to stop or follow him back. 

I will admit I sobbed like crazy when I saw Dad. I was struggling to hold it in when we saw the bikes but I lost it seeing dad. I have never been more scared in my life. The whole thing lasted maybe 15 minutes tops but it felt like hours.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

So glad you kept your heads and were able to get help. I often ride out on trails alone and think through scenarios like these.

Sorry you had to experience this at all, but happy there was a good ending! Stay safe out there.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

How about a rifle scabbard to attach to you saddle. Sometimes just the visual is enough to scare creepers off. This really ticks me off that you even have to concern yourself with this kind of stuff.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Don't feel bad about sobbing your heart out. I would have too and I'm waay older than you. It is a stress release as much as an emotional reaction 

You girls did really well, what a terrifying situation.

FYI in New Zealand it is illegal for us to carry pepper spray, mace or a weapon. Fair game here, protect the criminal or become one yourself by carrying pepper!! I think when I start riding again I will risk carrying mace :-(


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Glad you're safe, I would have been scared too once he started to follow.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

When I was in south Florida, carrying mace was common for riders. Some of the trails were frequented by no gooders, and coming across a meet up of some kind alone on a horse was always a tense situation. Luckily the worst I ever got were jeers and cat calls. But now that I'm in the middle of no where central Florida, it's easier to either carry a gun, or deck my horse and myself out in bright orange. There's not as many creeps, but then again, there's not a many people. It's the guys out shooting or hunting you've got to be careful of. 

I'm glad your ok, that's a very scary situation, but you handled it well. Your horses proved their worth, I'd be giving lots of extra treats abd cuddles.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

You're 18 and Florida is open carry. If you think you can handle it, ask your dad to take you to a range to learn to handle a gun - a .40 is a good size that is easy to carry and does its job when needed. There are poisonous snakes in Florida, and some Snakes can have legs. Or, in your case, wheels. Take out a tire and there's no way he can keep up with a trotting horse!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Frightening for you both. 

Many years back there was a 'flasher' that randomly started to appear where we rode a lot. Never to adults, only the children. 

Always the same, stark naked apart from shoes, carrying jeans and shirt, always the same "What a wonderful day for sunbathing." 

Police were useless though it is a large off road area, only four tracks to get to it.

The children were told what to do, keep moving, get to the farm and tell someone there or get back to the stables. They had the advantage of four legs rather than two. 

There was no telling if he would appear or not, could be months between each visit or, several times in a week. 

He got bolder and made the mistake of appearing to my 'Grannies' ride one Sunday morning. 
The very odd thing was how he would climb through barb wire fences, the children said the same thing, he came through the fence. 

When he walked across to where we were ambling across a trail he said his wonderful day for sun bathing. 

Possibly the only printable thing was one woman saying, "Poor man, my boy is only three and he's bigger than THAT!" 

I can say he blushed from his ankles up. 

He turned to walk away and we all chased him and he got a few whacks across his butt from my dressage whip. 

We never saw him again.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> Frightening for you both.
> 
> Many years back there was a 'flasher' that randomly started to appear where we rode a lot. Never to adults, only the children.
> 
> ...


:rofl: :rofl: You have some great stories Foxhunter. I'm sure you should write a book


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Change said:


> You're 18 and Florida is open carry. If you think you can handle it, ask your dad to take you to a range to learn to handle a gun - a .40 is a good size that is easy to carry and does its job when needed. There are poisonous snakes in Florida, and some Snakes can have legs. Or, in your case, wheels. Take out a tire and there's no way he can keep up with a trotting horse!


Florida is not an open carry state. Yet. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Florida#Open_carry

I'm glad you girls are ok. That all sounded pretty frightening.


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

Florida is tricky with its gun laws. You are legally allowed open carry if your on your way to, during, and on your way back from fishing or hunting. But you must have proof that that's what your doing (fishing poles, tackle box, orange/camo gear, hunting blinds, etc). I've had to research this a lot, since I carry a gun on our trails here in Clermont. Having a gun visible in your car/truck is also ok, so long as it's either mounted with a lock, in a holster with a lock, or in a 2 step load form (gun unloaded in one place such as the glove box, ammo in another such as the center console. ) 

The thing to remember when carrying a gun on a horse, train your horse with the gun before you ride with it. God forbid you need the gun, shoot it and your horse goes running out from under you.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Self defence classes would be good; not only will they give you some skills to actually put into practice; but also they should give you improved self confidence. A person like this must not be allowed to destroy your ability to go out into the world and enjoy yourself. 

I would also second the self defence on a horse information as well; if you're riding the last thing you want to do is get off your horse if you are in a risky situation as the horse itself is a "weapon" and asset where unless the person is horse experienced they are unlikely to be that confident around the horse - esp if you can make the horse canter toward them (most people will not stand for a charging horse - especially if they get the idea that hte horse is not going to stop for them!)

I would also try to find a few guys to go riding with soon; to at least ensure that you don't get your confidence knocked out of you or end up worrying on the ride every time you hear a bike or every time another guy appears around a corner. That will not only rattle you, but it will put your horse on edge too and take away the fun and safety of the ride (its every chance that as your panic levels rose your horse reacted to that far more than the guy - although I suspect most horses don't like being "followed" at a distance by a noisy machine either unless trained to be used to it). 


Being in groups helps; you can also get phone apps that you can input a start and finish time and if you don't send a deactivate notice the phone will auto send a ping message to a registered friend account to notify that you've not returned back at the expected time.

Another point is that people like this are inherently cowardly and fearful themselves; they prey on the weak but are weak themselves. Thus overt showing of communication like talking on the phone can make them rethink and move away. So going in groups helps; going with a guy helps; talking to someone on the phone helps. Try not to fake talk if you can - but that can also work; although never "fake" call the police as if you're ever in the situation where you feel you should then you should be calling the police for real - don't let them cal your bluff [unless you're in an area with no reception of course then "fake" call]. 



If you go for weapons like mace, tazers etc.. get proper training and top up the training every so often. If you don't know how to use an item in self defence and have the confidence to actually use it then its at best useless and at worse you've given your opponent a weapon to use against you. Knives are an ideal example of a BAD choice whereby many people "carry a knife" for personal protection, but have no idea how to properly use it in a fight and often as not end up stabbed by their own knife by their attacker. 



Guns is a risky area; like tazers and mace if you can't use it don't have it with you otherwise it won't protect you.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

At first I thought not to post this because I didn't want to scare or worry you, but with all the talk of guns and protecting yourself on your horse, I will.

About 45 years ago, I belonged to a 4-H club in Langley Park, MD. Nowdays Langley Park is a dangerous place of gangs and drugs, but back then there were many rural pockets and lots of kids had horses. The kids liked to ride to McDonald's on the powerline. One day after school, one of the girls in my 4-H rode her horse to McDonald's. She was heading home along the powerline when two men stopped her to ask some innocuous question. When she stopped to answer them, they grabbed her rein and ordered her to get off. She ripped her horse's bridle off and took off galloping for home. They opened fire on her and shot her several times in the head and back. Luckily it was winter and she had on a heavy parka and the bullets did not penetrate past her coat. But they did embed in her head. When she got to the busy highway, her !!!!very good!!!! horse stopped to wait for traffic. She passed out from loss of blood as the horse waited. Another fortunate thing was that a neighbor was driving by and immediately got help for her. She still had some bullets imbedded in her head when I knew her.

That incident had happened about a year before when I was riding on the power lines no where near Langley Park. I was miles from home in a very isolated place. Two men pulled up in a sports car as I was crossing one of the many dirt roads that crisscrossed the power line. They got out and also asked me some innocuous question. I began to back away, thinking of the girl I knew from 4-H. One of the men grabbed my rein and ordered me to get off. I jerked the rein out of his hand and spun my !!!!very good!!!! horse towards home. They sprinted for their car and drove to the main road which crossed the powerline further up. I asked my good horse for more speed and more speed, hoping to get across that main road before they could. I knew their car could never follow me on the rough and ragged trail. They were really hauling quick and it was touch and go if I could get across that road and onto the rugged trail, but I flashed across the road just before them and left them in the dust. 

I never told my parents because I knew they would say I couldn't ride out like that, and riding long and far was the only good thing I had in my life at that time. I imagined at the time, and it was probably true, that they were just trying to scare me, and once I got away from them, I was probably not in much danger, but it was certainly a memorable experience for me.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

^ Like!

take a trail safety coarse (self defense riding) and maybe work on some bridleless work on your horse. but there is a reason i always 100% of the time have a gun on me and ride with a group (normally with my fiance with a bigger pocket cannon and he can be quite scary even without it). I also only ride in quite populated areas and only during the day (meaning i do little trail riding in the summer). 

that is terrifying though! i was feeling panic for you just reading it! I know someone who trained her horse to kick, bite and attack on command (little commands that were hard to notice but the mare knew well). normally im against teaching a horse to be aggressive but i can see where it would come in handy.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

As a kid in the San Bernardino mountains, we always rode the logging and fire break trails out into the middle of nowhere. This was before cell phones. For that reason, we always had our German Shepherd with us. He was a great judge of character, and if his ruff went up or he did his, "I don't like this," bark, we knew to spin and run. 

He was also good about discouraging the natural predators like puma and wolf and bear.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

^ thats what my mom did in upstate new york with her dogs growing up and what i did for the most part here in the city. Big scary dogs are a good thing to have


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

I am glad to hear that the OP, her friend, and all the ladies who posted have handled situations like this well. One thing to remember is that there is no reason what so ever that a man needs to come up close to a woman or child who is alone. Even something legitimate like needing directions can be done from a safe distance. Let any one wanting to get too close or wanting you to come closer be the first warning that something may not be right.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I had the same thing that Foxhunter did. When I was flashed I just busted out laughing and continue on down the trail. My parting shot was, 'I feel sooooo sorry for your wife.'


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## beverleyy (Oct 26, 2011)

That's so scary! Glad you guys are okay. 

I often used to ride out on our trails alone as well, always a public trail, but it was a very quite one with not much foot/hoof traffic. My mum always made me take her cell phone with me as I was too young to have my own at the time. Scary to think about.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I agree with Overread that predators are inherently cowardly. They want an easy mark- someone who is too scared to react to them, and will be quiet and timid. They don't like attention drawn to them. 

Get loud. Get angry. Scream at them if you have to. If you're not comfortable carrying a real gun, get a BB pistol (many of them look extremely realistic) - you can buy them for under $50, you don't need a license to carry them, and you're not going to kill yourself with it by accident. It's usually enough to scare someone off. If they approach, a BB still hurts like hell and can surprise/stun someone long enough for you to get away. Even a gun that shoots blanks or rubber bullets is a very decent scare tactic - remember, predators don't like prey that fights back.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

I am glad you are both okay, must have terrifying. I would like to point out one thing as a former LEO, pepper spray and tasers aren't
very effective weapons from horse back, they are designed when some one is already in your face. You have to make contact for the taser to work, and pepper spray goes where ever the wind blows it, so you might pepper spray your horse or yourself.
So, I recommend buying a can of wasp killer. They spray 25 feet in a dense stream, and will dern sure disable anyone who gets a face full. Plus it requires no license, or special training.


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## Scubasmitten (Apr 13, 2016)

Good girls! You did the right thing. I have encountered so many creeps in my life. I think every woman will have at least one similar experience. Too bad he wasn't in close proximity. A good horse kick in the face would put him off that behavior! It's smart to remain calm and not initiate anything with him. Perhaps you can get word out locally. I will admit the possibility of that sort of encounter didn't cross my mind until you posted this. You're already raising awareness and that could save someone. Now, I'll be sure to pack something. In a way, it could be a blessing. Now you know what its like to feel afraid--you know it can happen-- and will probably be wiser in future decisions (not necessarily horse related ones). Peace to you....


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## Scubasmitten (Apr 13, 2016)

6gun Kid said:


> I am glad you are both okay, must have terrifying. I would like to point out one thing as a former LEO, pepper spray and tasers aren't
> very effective weapons from horse back, they are designed when some one is already in your face. You have to make contact for the taser to work, and pepper spray goes where ever the wind blows it, so you might pepper spray your horse or yourself.
> So, I recommend buying a can of wasp killer. They spray 25 feet in a dense stream, and will dern sure disable anyone who gets a face full. Plus it requires no license, or special training.


Yesss! Lol he makes a good point!


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## Scubasmitten (Apr 13, 2016)

Mulefeather said:


> I agree with Overread that predators are inherently cowardly. They want an easy mark- someone who is too scared to react to them, and will be quiet and timid. They don't like attention drawn to them.
> 
> Get loud. Get angry. Scream at them if you have to. If you're not comfortable carrying a real gun, get a BB pistol (many of them look extremely realistic) - you can buy them for under $50, you don't need a license to carry them, and you're not going to kill yourself with it by accident. It's usually enough to scare someone off. If they approach, a BB still hurts like hell and can surprise/stun someone long enough for you to get away. Even a gun that shoots blanks or rubber bullets is a very decent scare tactic - remember, predators don't like prey that fights back.


A good point from a psychological perspective. It can be hard for a girl that age to react this way, though. I'd worry about retaliation, but that's just me. Even a paintball hurts to me. I swear...my entire leg was mardi gras colors last time I got pelted.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I find it sad beyond expression that a young girl has to be afraid. Ever.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Scubasmitten said:


> A good point from a psychological perspective. It can be hard for a girl that age to react this way, though. I'd worry about retaliation, but that's just me. Even a paintball hurts to me. I swear...my entire leg was mardi gras colors last time I got pelted.


Sadly you are right, it's something a lot of women struggle to overcome because we are taught to be quiet and polite from a young age. Unfortunately many predators use this to their advantage, which is why self-defense classes often have to teach women to get loud.

I like paintball/BBs as an alternative because they hurt like crazy, but they are not lethal and will usually stun someone long enough for you to get away- and paint or a big bruise from a pellet can be helpful evidence in identifying a perp, too. Many of them look like real guns, which may be enough to scare someone off (although they should always be treated like a real gun). And unlike mace or a tazer, it doesn't require letting the person get close enough to spray or touch. Psychologically, it also may be a better alternative for a young woman, because having to make the choice to potentially kill someone is a heavy burden to bear for anyone of any age, but especially a young person. 

It makes me really sad and extremely angry that women or girls of any age have to worry about things like this. But because crazy people are out there, that is why the old Boy Scout adage of "Be Prepared" stands so true.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Just a point on BB guns that look like real guns - I'm UK side so we have somewhat different laws here regarding guns in general and with regard to replica. I am thus assuming that in the USA there is no law that requires a replica to have markings to identify it as replica and not a real gun - for example toy guns in the UK have to have a red muzzle cap (or at least an identifying marker which is most times a red muzzle cap). 

You might want to check if there are laws that relate to BB or replica guns and their open carrying in public to make sure there is nothing you have to do to identify it as not a real gun or anything of that nature. 

At a distance a replica certainly can carry off an effect and a shot from a BB gun is going to be less deadly by far (indeed its mostly only the eyes where you can cause lasting serious harm). Certainly I think if you can use a BB gun in that capacity legally then its a good consideration as it doesn't come with the emotional turmoil of using a real gun (because as said you must never carry a weapon that you can't use).


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

6gun Kid said:


> So, I recommend buying a can of wasp killer. They spray 25 feet in a dense stream, and will dern sure disable anyone who gets a face full. Plus it requires no license, or special training.


I was going to suggest this also. 

I'm sorry you had to experience this. I think you handled it very well, though. Thank God for good brains and good horses.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Another point in favor of a paintball pistol is that if you shoot someone coming at you, they're immediately identifiable by the paint spattered on them. 

Overread, yes, replica weapons in the US usually have a red or orange "cap" on the muzzle to identify them as replicas, however, when things are happening fast (like someone running at you), all they're going to see is a gun, they're probably not going to be real concerned if it's real or not.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

A paint ball gun or pellet gun from atop a horse might be a good delaying tactic, but as I learned in my self-defense classes, the main object is to cause enough injury to ensure escape. On the ground, that means sufficient incapacitation to ensure the aggressor cannot chase you. My cop instructor even cautioned against using small caliber guns like a .22 or .25, in that the would might only **** the aggressor off!

I'm not saying get a gun (although I ride with one, always), but whatever you choose, it should be of sufficient impact as to stop someone long enough for you to get away. On horseback, you already have the advantage.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

My oldest two sons played tournament paintball and also refereed and managed a paintball place all through high school and part way through college. 

At close range, those things really do hurt (my sons sometimes looked like they had been burned repeatedly with a cigar the day after doing a "white rabbit") and some of them can shoot fast enough to be considered an automatic weapon. 

You can also load with different paint balls, low impact or high impact and adjust the pressure level of the shot (at least on the nicer guns). Inside the "paintball" is essentially biodegradable soap and it stings like crazy if you get it in your eyes and can cause vision problems which is why masks are a requirement when you play.

The down side is that a high pressure gun is going to be expensive, bulky and heavy and you need to have a CO2 tank attached (not the co2 cartridges). 

If you know how to use it properly it can definitely be a deterrent and give you time to get away.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Change said:


> As a kid in the San Bernardino mountains, we always rode the logging and fire break trails out into the middle of nowhere. This was before cell phones. For that reason, we always had our German Shepherd with us. He was a great judge of character, and if his ruff went up or he did his, "I don't like this," bark, we knew to spin and run.
> 
> He was also good about discouraging the natural predators like puma and wolf and bear.


Yup between my GSD and horse I always felt safe out on trails. They wouldn't get near me to bother me and if they did they had a dog to deal with and I'd run them over with the horse lol. I always worried about the dog though!


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

A paintball gun might be painful but its easily seen as a paint ball gun. The thing is a gun is a threat not because of sound or sight but its potential to seriously harm or kill; if a person sees a paintball gun they know it might hurt a bit; but a bruise and a bit of paint won't kill them although many might shield their eyes unless they are wearing sunglasses. 

So it might not offer much real protection although might at best be a distraction.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Overread said:


> A paintball gun might be painful but its easily seen as a paint ball gun. The thing is a gun is a threat not because of sound or sight but its potential to seriously harm or kill; if a person sees a paintball gun they know it might hurt a bit; but a bruise and a bit of paint won't kill them although many might shield their eyes unless they are wearing sunglasses.
> 
> So it might not offer much real protection although might at best be a distraction.


Not necessarily:










That's a RAMX50 paintball pistol. RAMX50 Paintball Pistol (Blue)(External Air) - Total PaintBall Gear


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Ahh when paintball got mentioned I was thinking of this kind


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

This sounds frightening.


I would go with the wasp spray, and maybe practicing squirting it so you can see how it flows. Be careful of wind direction, if it gets in your face or your horses face you will have a whole new set of problems.

I would not get anything that looks like a gun. It's real easy for someone to say "I feared for my life, she had a gun pointed at me - so I shot..." There are stories all over the news because of things like this. They get off the hook, and you're still dead.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Overread said:


> A paintball gun might be painful but its easily seen as a paint ball gun. The thing is a gun is a threat not because of sound or sight but its potential to seriously harm or kill; if a person sees a paintball gun they know it might hurt a bit; but a bruise and a bit of paint won't kill them although many might shield their eyes unless they are wearing sunglasses.
> 
> So it might not offer much real protection although might at best be a distraction.


Yes, but one of the rules of fire arms (at least the way I was taught) is never to draw the weapon unless you are going to fire it and when you fire it, it is shoot to kill. Not maim, warn or scare that is stuff of the movies.

Being mentally prepared to carry is also being mentally prepared to kill a fellow human being if the need arises. That is a huge responsibility and many people when faced with that actual decision will hesitate or even freeze up which puts them into further danger.

Then there are the legal problems that can get you. Even in Texas, which most people imagine is akin to the O.K. corral, firing a warning shot can get you into more trouble than shooting at someone. If you live in a state that does not have castle laws/stand your ground laws, you might find yourself getting more legal scrutiny than the perpetrator. Even if you do have those laws in place, you may find yourself under a law enforcement/press induced microscope, questioning your decision as to whether or not lethal force was warranted. 

Also many states, even those with legally lax gun laws prohibit carrying a weapon on State lands which might include equestrian parks or easement lands……(and also may include paintball guns BTW) IMO drawing a firearm is the absolute last resort.

The long and short of it is a gun is a great form of protection (I have my own), but there is a lot more thought and investigation that needs to go into it before making that decision vs something like a paintball gun.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Overread said:


> Ahh when paintball got mentioned I was thinking of this kind


Yeah, that's what most people think of.

My husband's best friend has a paintball rifle that is an almost exact replica AK-47. Sucker HURTS when he has it turned up, even at long range.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

I was just talking to paintball son #3 and he says the new Tippman Magfed marker's hurt like a son of a gun when you get hit. 

At the place he works the limit for FPS (feet per second) is 290, but the guns are capable of being set to shoot upwards of 320. He also said you load with Reballs, they are target practice paintballs made of rubber and since they don't break when they hit, they are essentially rubber bullets; he says if you get hit with one, it will make you bleed.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> Yes, but one of the rules of fire arms (at least the way I was taught) is never to draw the weapon unless you are going to fire it and when you fire it, it is shoot to kill. Not maim, warn or scare that is stuff of the movies.
> 
> Being mentally prepared to carry is also being mentally prepared to kill a fellow human being if the need arises. That is a huge responsibility and many people when faced with that actual decision will hesitate or even freeze up which puts them into further danger.
> 
> ...


I agree! I carry a gun. i carry it on my hip all the time or its in my bag. I make it easily seen so i do not HAVE to make a threat, any crazies i see will leave me be as soon as they see it in its holster on my hip. I fully know that if i pull that thing out im killing someone. not shoot them in the leg, not scare them away, im going to plead temporary insanity and fear for my life and empty the magazine into the person (little .22 semi auto).

And i pray every day that i NEVER have to use it! I Pray the sight of it is more then enough to deter people from their crazy trains of thought, but i KNOW that if the days comes i will do what i must do.

If im riding the law is on my side in az. if im riding my horse and someone goes after my i can shoot them in defense of my livestock, though again, dont want to go there.


second the wasp spray, more controllable, better range and its nasty stuff!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> I was just talking to paintball son #3 and he says the new Tippman Magfed marker's hurt like a son of a gun when you get hit.
> 
> At the place he works the limit for FPS (feet per second) is 290, but the guns are capable of being set to shoot upwards of 320. He also said you load with Reballs, they are target practice paintballs made of rubber and since they don't break when they hit, they are essentially rubber bullets; he says if you get hit with one, it will make you bleed.


All good info! 

I've only been paintballing a couple of times, but the second time, when T brought his "AK-47," it was awful. We kept yelling at him to turn it down and he would yell back that it _was_ turned down. Then we'd yell back at him that down was the other way! :lol:


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## whisperbaby22 (Jan 25, 2013)

I think a lot of this is going to be dependent on the state you ride in and your circumstances. I keep pepper spray on me, and if I see someone, I keep a good distance. "My horse bites" is a good deterrent to people wanting to pet the horsie, and if someone hides by the side of the trail and grabs my reins, the pepper spray is on a string on my neck, easily grabbed and used. In fact, I don't leave home without it, and I get a lot of comments on the beautiful scarves I wear, they are there to cover the spray. 

It is sad that we have a society that a young girl cannot go out and enjoy her horse and the fresh air. Too bad that we can't just follow this creep and when he starts his crap, scare him and let him know that isn't going down around these parts.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

To be honest, I have never really even felt the need to carry pepper spray while out riding; but I have had extensive self defense training and would not hesitate to run someone over with my horse if necessary (and I think my particular horse might even enjoy that if given the opportunity) or do some off trail riding through brush and terrain not conducive to human foot traffic or small motorized vehicles. (good reason to have a trail horse that can jump)

I get more worried riding out during hunting season with some yahoo in a tree stand all day and a case or two of beer……..


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

^ whisper this is your "like"


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Thanks so much for the suggestion. 

I don't feel comfortable with a real gun. I'm a terrible shot and I also don't always ride my own horses. I'm the one who gets asked to ride everyone else's brats because I'm firm and don't put up with their crap so having a horse desentized to the gun isn't always a guaranteed. 

I'm going to star riding with a dog or two. My own Lab/Newfie is a massive 110lb ball of muscle who I trained to bark and lunge forward on command in German. So he'll be a nice deterrent I hope. I also have a female Pitbull that is quite scary looking even though she's as gentle as can be. 

For the wasp spray, how do I attach it to my saddle where I can easily get to it?

Paintball gun might work. How loud are they for riding horses not my own?

When Kenzie recovers from some bad sole bruising, I'm going to make sure she'll run over the top of a person if I tell her and she will rip the reins out of someone's hands. Shes' an bad tempered Arab mare so that shouldn't be to hard.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

The sound of the paintball guns vary but are still quite loud from the horse's stand point. Its about as loud as a 9 mil gun with a half way decent suppressor on it. Rather than "crack!" it comes out as "Pffft!", if that makes sense.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

YES! big fuzzy things scare people! they will se you and suddenly you are not such an easy target. i had 50lb and a 45lb wolf mutts who i took everywhere with me (did not look wolf but their mother/grandmother was at least 80%). People uses to be amazed about how bit they were (about the size of a golden or maybe a small shepherd) but it worked. With big and scary trained to be scary you will be fine 

I also DEMAND pics of the fuzzy beast!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Rain Shadow, all you hear with a paintball gun is a quiet "pop." It's not even a pop really. Ignore the first part of this video. Shooting in something that acoustically blank distorts/amplifies the sound.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Ask and you shall receive pics of Noah! He's my baby. I handraised him from 4 weeks old and he's my constant shadow with lots of trail experience until my stupid county made a leash law. So I'm going to train him to ride on a leash which I doubt will be hard. He's easy going and has done it before to cross roads.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

There is always this alternative of course...






Rope 'em, dally them and then threaten to spur your horse..... Just kidding of course!


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Kenzie wanna learn to rope baby girl?


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

*Grabby Hands* Noah looks adorable!

I am sorry you had to go through that. I've been flat out stalked on several occasions and it's terrifying.

If you do decide to train your horses to the sound of gun fire make sure you start at a distance and slowly work your way closer to the horses before ever doing anything right around them. It helps to get them used to the sound.

Florida has both Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground laws, so if you do eventually choose to carry a gun all you'll need are the proper permits. Right now a local gun store is having a special on their conceal and carry permits $38. So I'd look around if you are ever interested in a gun. A .38 is a nice and light and easier to use than most higher caliber guns. I also prefer a revolver as there is slightly less chance of it jamming/ miss-firing.

Wasp spray is always a good choice as it's a thicker foam that sprays up to 25 feet. The smell will get to you though if you've never used it before so I suggest buying a couple of cans and practicing hitting a target at various ranges as well.

As for carrying it, they are larger cans and can be hard to wield in a hurry and not very easy to transport on horseback. I'd look into finding a bottle holder that clips onto the saddle as that will likely be the easiest way to carry it. However that would put you at a disadvantage should you wind up on the ground for some reason. In that case I'd want a secondary back-up weapon of some kind.

I always carry a knife as a back-up, but I'm am trained to use it and am very fast and hard to hold on to. I never mess around if I have to pull a knife I go in for the major organs and the eyes if I'm able to get to them. But knives are not for everyone and many people get stabbed or even killed with their own knife, so it is something to be aware of.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Definitely make sure you train your horse to be shot off of, if it's a real gun or a paintball/rubber bullet gun. There's a lot of mounted shooters out there who I'm sure would be happy to give you tips on training a horse to gunfire of all sorts. 

Riding with dogs sounds like a great idea, as it's a good way to keep scuzzy people at a safe distance. As someone who is alive today thanks to the efforts of one very protective, 30-lb miniature poodle, I will also say that it's not the size of the dog that makes them effective, either!


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

It is not the size of the dog in th fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.


Famous quote, I just can not remember who said it!

Same can be said for people.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

Rain Shadow, this is a sticky thread that is found in the trail riding section. This talks about self-defense on the trail.
http://www.horseforum.com/trail-riding/self-defense-trail-60340/


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Mulefeather said:


> Riding with dogs sounds like a great idea, as it's a good way to keep scuzzy people at a safe distance. As someone who is alive today thanks to the efforts of one very protective, 30-lb miniature poodle, I will also say that it's not the size of the dog that makes them effective, either!


Note to everyone who brings dogs along; please make sure your dogs are respectful of other trail users. I have a green horse and we've been charged by strange dogs more than once. It is really takes the fun out of a ride when your horse is spooking, you are praying you stay on and someone's loose dog won't leave you alone. :x


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

trailhorserider said:


> Note to everyone who brings dogs along; please make sure your dogs are respectful of other trail users. I have a green horse and we've been charged by strange dogs more than once. It is really takes the fun out of a ride when your horse is spooking, you are praying you stay on and someone's loose dog won't leave you alone. :x



Agreed! Harley was basically mauled by a loose dog on a trail ride before I got him. 

Noah has his Canine Good Citizenship. Has gone through every level of obedience school. Has been around horses since he was 4 weeks old. He's trained to heel off a horse, go ahead, fall behind, lie down and stay while I work horses in the arena. 

Here is him on a trail ride when we trailed out to someplace without a leash law.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

You can buy any kind of clip on water bottle holder, to hold a can od wasp spray.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

you could use a long lunge line as a leash. or a large retractable one that way it dose not get underfoot and if you clip it to a harness the pull wont bother him as much. as much as i hate leash laws i have nealy been attacked by dogs on the trails horseback because the lack of leash laws. stupid people/dogs ruin it for everyone


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The sort of people who don't train there animals aren't the sort to listen to leash laws.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

KigerQueen said:


> you could use a long lunge line as a leash. or a large retractable one that way it dose not get underfoot and if you clip it to a harness the pull wont bother him as much. as much as i hate leash laws i have nealy been attacked by dogs on the trails horseback because the lack of leash laws. stupid people/dogs ruin it for everyone


I use a 10ft lead rope. Any longer and its a pain to keep up the slack so the horse doesn't step on it. I tend to do one wrap around my horn if I'm using a saddle.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I would be careful before taking your pit bull out as a riding companion. I have five, and I live in an area where most people recognize them as sweet, loving dogs. However - if another dog (or person) attacks and your pit bull defends you (and she will), it will ALWAYS be the pit bull's fault if there are injuries.

I'd love to take my dogs with me, but there is no way I'll put them at that kind of risk.


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## Overread (Mar 7, 2015)

Just another thought but get a headcamera. 

It's subtle and won't get in your way, whilst at the same time being useful if you encounter any problems for proving your side of the story [like that guy who zooms past in their car at top speed]. It's also something that will make stalkers keep away because they don't want to be videoed - again you're playing to their fears. And it also means that if someone is creepy and approaches or follows you you've got evidence to prove it and a video with hopefully some facial details for police to follow up on. 


For a stalker like the one in the OP a simple camera clearly shown would likely have him leaving once its spotted.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I hope you never see this guy again. But if you do, and you report it, it may help build a case of stalking against him. Law enforcement may not be able to take action on one incident like that, but same guy following the same girl(s) more than once is stalking.


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## lilymaggie (Mar 18, 2015)

How lucky you were to be on horseback haha! Horses can most certainly save us sometimes.


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

Ugh. It's disgusting that things like this happen as often as they do. I'm glad you, your friend, and your horses are OK.

I have had things like this happen to me so many times.

The most frightening instance was when I was in college. My room mate and I ran out to the grocery store in the evening. I was driving. As we left the parking lot a van left behind us. We kept going, not thinking anything of it. As we neared the townhouse we were renting, we realized the same van was still behind us. We thought it might just be coidence but decided turn off into another neighborhood, to see if we could lose him. He followed. We kept making random turns in this neighborhood and he kept following. Eventually we pulled into a driveway. He passed the driveway, then stopped a few houses down, letting his van idle in the street. I gave it about 10 seconds then floored it out of the driveway, went the opposite way, and drive home as fast as possible. We lost him doing that, but it was terrifying knowing someone picked us out at the grocery store and tried to follow us home. We never found out who it was. There were no other local reports like that and we never saw his plates.

A few years ago, a man was arrested for trying to abduct girls from a local middle school as they walked home from school.

I have had more than one instance of stalking or just creeping from men in the workplace. I have been followed in circumstances where I shouldn't have been followed, had men I don't work with directly try way too hard to have conversations with me and then not leave when I try to excuse myself from the conversation. I have had men make inappropriate comments, stare etc. But as long as none ever touch me inappropriately or say anything overly incriminating, reports of harassment amount to nothing.

When I'm out in public, usually the grocery, I'm often subject to comments about my body, or asked about my marital status by strange men. And it's usually older men. I'm in my twenties but am often targeted by men in their 50's and older. I have had whistles and catcalls directed at me by men I don't know and don't want anything to do with, young and old.

It sucks that we live in a world where women can't be in public without being the targets of harassment and stalking. It's sad that we have to carry mace in our purses and bring male escorts.

It also sucks that when a woman brings this issue up, she is accused of being paranoid, trying to ruin some man's reputation, or being a crazy feminist, as if being a feminist is a bad thing. And it sucks that often times the victim is blamed. I am often asked what I was wearing, as if that should matter. Granted, I normally wear the standard jeans and t-shirt, nothing unusually revealing or flattering, and at work I wear a uniform or a lab coat like everyone else, but I should be able to walk out my front door naked without it being a personal invitation for every man everywhere to hit on me inappropriately.

I'd say you're not alone, as if that's comforting, but it's not comforting at all. It's frigetning and upsetting that it happens as often as it does.


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## Surrealle (Feb 28, 2016)

Change said:


> You're 18 and Florida is open carry. If you think you can handle it, ask your dad to take you to a range to learn to handle a gun - a .40 is a good size that is easy to carry and does its job when needed. There are poisonous snakes in Florida, and some Snakes can have legs. Or, in your case, wheels. Take out a tire and there's no way he can keep up with a trotting horse!


No! No no no! To your last line, do NOT attempt to shoot out someone's tire! Not only is it difficult to hit but there's all kinds of potential legal ramifications to doing it. The only time you should EVER point a gun at someone is if you genuinely feel you are about to be seriously hurt or killed, and if the threat of a gun pointed at them isn't enough to stop them (aka you're still in danger), at that point you shoot to kill. You do not give warning shots or try to pull a movie stunt move. 

Now, all that being said, I don't disagree with the rest of your post.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

Rain Shadow said:


> Today I had the most terrifying thing happen while out trail riding with my friend.
> 
> We went out riding together. I'm a 19 year old girl. My friend Paislee is 17.
> 
> ...


that is very scary indeed. I am happy you and your friend and the horses are ok 
I hope they charge the man too 

thank you for sharing 

your horses sensed something was wrong and protected you and your friend


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## KLJcowgirl (Oct 13, 2015)

I am so terribly sorry for this experience. I don't think I would have handled it any different than you did. You and your friend are certainly very smart girls!

I am also so very glad you shared. And I am glad others have shared their stories. These scenarios are something I have worried about, but usually don't think about to much, or I blow it off as "Oh that won't happen here". It's good to have a reminder to prepare myself for anything. If it can happen, it just might.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

Overread said:


> If you go for weapons like mace, tazers etc.. get proper training and top up the training every so often. If you don't know how to use an item in self defence and have the confidence to actually use it then its at best useless and at worse you've given your opponent a weapon to use against you. Knives are an ideal example of a BAD choice whereby many people "carry a knife" for personal protection, but have no idea how to properly use it in a fight and often as not end up stabbed by their own knife by their attacker.
> 
> 
> 
> Guns is a risky area; like tazers and mace if you can't use it don't have it with you otherwise it won't protect you.



This is some good advice.

I do mounted shooting, where we shoot _blanks_ off horseback (in controlled conditions). I am also involved in other shooting sports that involved live ammo. Based on that, I will say that firearms and horses can be a very bad and dangerous combination. IMO, it is not the right self-defense from horseback solution for 99% of people. 

Even if you are well trained, using the gun carries some emotional and legal baggage. If it is really "you or them" that's one thing. As creepy as this situation is, can you really justify to the law or your conscience that you took someone's life because they followed you on a public train and wanted to take your picture? Don't get me wrong - I have daughters and totally understand the situation. I also would take care of the problem in my own way, without having to force my daughter to live with the fact that she pulled the trigger (and hoping she was lucky enough to hit the target).

Mace, tazer, pepper spray... also bad ideas for most people in this situation. All these tools can easily backfire and put you in more danger. Even with proper training, a simple mistake with one of these tools can land you on the ground, injured and at the mercy of your attacker.

The OP did the exact right thing. Escape and call for help. Your horse is a 1,000 lb weapon that can outrun most problems. What they can't outrun, they can be taught to run over. Street smarts and situational awareness are your best defense. Make sure you don't end up in a situation that you need a weapon to get out of.

Meanwhile, spread the word to local barns and riders about this guy. Get the word out (without adding your personal opinions to the story). IF more people are aware and contact the police whenever this guy is seen, he will either get caught doing something that he can be arrested for, or he will find a new area.

Ride safe.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

I'm so glad you and your friend are ok. It sounds like a very tense, scary situation. You handled it well!


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Stay safe OP.


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## DimSum (Mar 28, 2012)

Tazmanian Devil said:


> ,,,Based on that, I will say that firearms and horses can be a very bad and dangerous combination. IMO, it is not the right self-defense from horseback solution for 99% of people.
> 
> 
> *...The OP did the exact right thing. Escape and call for help. Your horse is a 1,000 lb weapon that can outrun most problems. What they can't outrun, they can be taught to run over.* Street smarts and situational awareness are your best defense. Make sure you don't end up in a situation that you need a weapon to get out of.


Spot on advice. Your horse should be your first and best defense, along with your own common sense. Is there a mounted unit near you that could assist with tips and desensitizing exercises for your horse? Perhaps you could organize a "self defense" clinic at your barn? We train all our trail horses to charge straight at stray dogs we encounter on the trail and 99% of those dogs turn tail and run. The other 1% freeze and let us pass on by. Two legged dogs are very similar :wink:

The other thing Tazmanian Devil mentions is situational awareness. What that boils down to is always being aware of where you are, what may be ahead, planning an escape route and/or having a plan in case of emergency. It's like defensive driving which is developing the habit looking not only at the car in front of you but 4-5 cars down the line. Anticipating what could happen next is the best way to not only keep your own self preservation in mind but also prepares you for instant action if that should be required.

Also, I would look into taking some self defense classes for yourself. The trail is not the only place one can encounter slimy people.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

very good advice for those using the trail or where ever you ride 
be aware of your surroundings and be prepared 


thank you


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## semper (Apr 29, 2016)

Hi, I am new to this forum and chanced upon this thread. I am sorry to hear of the stories told here.
I am unable to offer much assistance with what to do should the need ever arise again, however what I say may be of some use to someone reading.


Firstly, may I say that I do not agree with taking a dog along for protection. By all means take a dog (under strict control) riding, but be aware that it will be more of a hindrance to you in times of stress than a help. 
If it is on a lead and gets upset and lunges at someone ("baddy"), how will you control both your horse (reacting to the dog) and the dog? What if the horse starts spinning for some reason? Do you drop the lead and let the dog fend for itself? 
Just think back to the scenario described in the opening post. If the girls had had a dog would they have been able to act the way they did? If the dog got tired and stopped the owner would pull her horse up in concern for the dog, rather than concern for her own safety. Her friend would have followed suit, potentially putting her own safety in jeopardy also.
If the dog was on a rope and dragged behind at the canter, would the owner have let it go or slowed the horses to match the dog? If the dog is let go with a dragging lead it could get caught on trees or fences. The dog is then a "sitting duck" for whoever is following. If they are not nice people, will they chose to harm the dog?
If the dog got caught under the horse and was bowled and hurt and yelping, would the owner stop her horse and jump off to help her injured dog?


There are many things that need to be thought about when riding with a dog, The most important of which is that having one with you, divides your focus and in a stressful and life and death situation, you need your full focus on saving yourself.


The other thing I wish to add, is that in NZ over the years we have 2 unsolved crimes involving young girls, a horse and a dog.
One girl many years ago went for an afternoon ride. Her horse was later found tied up, near where she had been seen riding, but she has never been seen since. She was 14 years old.
!5 years later a 15 year old girl was walking her dog by a river. The dog was found tied to a tree. Her body was found some time later in a very different location.
Neither of these crimes have ever been solved and the families have never been able to fully put to rest the dissapearance/murder of these girls.


Please everyone, take care and don't take unnecessary risks. If alone, do not help someone in need....never dismount, instead ride off, find help and return with that official help. If they were really hurt you will have done a good thing, if they were acting to intice you, you were saved from a nasty experience.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

Well said Semper 

When I rode horses with my cousins we too her dog along the dog was not tied since we rode on my uncles property 
the dog would signal if a bear was around 
but for the most part we always rode together 
rather be safe than sorry


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Change said:


> ...My cop instructor even cautioned against using small caliber guns like a .22 or .25, in that the would might only **** the aggressor off...


Someone shot with a 22 in the right place is going to be in a world of hurt. Someone shot with a 44 in the wrong place may still fight and kill. The advantage to a .22 is the price of ammo. A person can afford to shoot a couple hundred rounds a session, 1-2 times a month, until they KNOW the gun.

The only time I've pulled a gun, it was a .22 revolver. 6 shot, and there were 8 of them. I had been hiking back up a mountainside to my car, and the nearest cop was probably 30+ miles away. When they started to fan out around me, I remembered the gun I brought along for plinking and pulled it out. I had put at least 5,000 round thru it, and I KNEW the first guy to rush me was going to take a bullet between the eyes. Maybe the second. Then I'd be killed, but I wasn't going to die alone.

Maybe that communicated itself to them, because they stopped trying to get around me and I made it to my car. Drove off. Never thought to file a police report. That would have been in 82 or 83.

But if anyone carries a gun, they really need to spend time getting good with it. I still have that revolver. I'm thinking of buying an 8-shot version of it. Arizona is an open carry/concealed carry/just carry kind of state. But for a first gun, a 22 revolver is hard to beat. Because any gun is best with a lot of practice. IMHO. Not a cop, nor an instructor, though.

This movie scene is based on a real shootout that took place in Miami in 1986.






This is the FBI training film that came out of that shootout:






Lots of food for thought for anyone thinking about carrying a gun for self-defense. Although I still like revolvers, and 22s...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Anything can backfire. There is no certainty.

If someone comes close to my horse, I tell them he is spooky and sometimes kicks at people or bites. Not true, but what they don't know won't hurt me - and a horse CAN spook over a little kid. Then I keep my distance. If they try to get closer after that warning, then I'll try to make it a LOT of distance. I'm an old guy, so I won't encounter stalkers. But there are some mean people in the desert. When I hike, I carry a gun. When I ride...well, a hoof pick or leatherman is more my speed.

Planning in advance is important. It is hard to come up with the right option on short notice. The OP did a good job.

Some of the pepper sprays are pretty good. Some now shoot a stream like the wasp sprays. Gun or spray or turning your horse fast, practice first. If I'm ever on a jury, and someone shot a person who was grabbing her reins, I'd acquit for self-defense. But Arizona has a different world-view than a lot of other places...and the best defense is your mind, and a pre-planned course of action.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

semper said:


> Hi, I am new to this forum and chanced upon this thread. I am sorry to hear of the stories told here.
> I am unable to offer much assistance with what to do should the need ever arise again, however what I say may be of some use to someone reading.
> 
> 
> ...


None of those things would be a worry for me with my dog. Good point that it depends on the dog though, I like to think someone wouldn't say "oh my yorkie would be perfect" or "oh my mom's dog is big and tough, never mind he is a year old 100lbs and untrained and aggressive" or whatever but better safe than sorry. A good horse dog with good training and a good horse, no reason not to take the dog. My dog is always off leash when I'm on the horse. I don't find a lead safe for numerous reasons (I'm also riding in the woods, so not exactly practical!) nor necessary. If you need a leash, leave the dog home.


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## Change (Jul 19, 2014)

I have never ridden with a dog on a lead; the dogs I took with me were well trained to stay with the horses and not underfoot. My Keeshund would sometimes tire on longer rides, but he was also trained to leap from the ground to my foot to my lap and ride with me. My horses were used to those dogs.

And I completely agree with *bsms *regarding being comfortable and competent with whatever gun you carry, if you are going to carry one. I personally don't care for revolvers, but that's a personal preference, as is the caliber.


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

Rain Shadow said:


> Today I had the most terrifying thing happen while out trail riding with my friend.
> 
> We went out riding together. I'm a 19 year old girl. My friend Paislee is 17.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you and your friend are okay, and glad it didn't tear the horses up too much. What good horses. Pistol probably would've responded by turning and bolting away- Maverick would've stuck his nose in the man's window and bit him. Dunno what Dixie would do. XD
That aside, people should really mind where they're sticking their noses. Stupid man.


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## LilyandPistol (Dec 2, 2014)

knightrider said:


> At first I thought not to post this because I didn't want to scare or worry you, but with all the talk of guns and protecting yourself on your horse, I will.
> 
> About 45 years ago, I belonged to a 4-H club in Langley Park, MD. Nowdays Langley Park is a dangerous place of gangs and drugs, but back then there were many rural pockets and lots of kids had horses. The kids liked to ride to McDonald's on the powerline. One day after school, one of the girls in my 4-H rode her horse to McDonald's. She was heading home along the powerline when two men stopped her to ask some innocuous question. When she stopped to answer them, they grabbed her rein and ordered her to get off. She ripped her horse's bridle off and took off galloping for home. They opened fire on her and shot her several times in the head and back. Luckily it was winter and she had on a heavy parka and the bullets did not penetrate past her coat. But they did embed in her head. When she got to the busy highway, her !!!!very good!!!! horse stopped to wait for traffic. She passed out from loss of blood as the horse waited. Another fortunate thing was that a neighbor was driving by and immediately got help for her. She still had some bullets imbedded in her head when I knew her.
> 
> ...


Oh my God, that's terrifying. Certainly some good horses involved in that story. I think horses just know when something like that happens, and protect their owner.
On the note of horses just KNOWING things, this won't be the most interesting story here, but last week I took Pistol out in the pasture to ride for the first time in half a year or so, and we were walking along when suddenly he became reluctant and then decided to stop and turn around. He nearly picked up to a trot when I was trying to stop him. When I got him stopped, I looked back and saw a swarm of angry bees right in the direction we were going. Would've been a bad day if we went any further. Thanks, Pistol. We take care of eachother.


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