# Horse papers



## Abby294 (Jul 19, 2016)

I bought a paint gelding few years ago. At the time the owner refused to give us his papers unless we paid another $200, and since I don't show breed I didn't. But now I'm looking to sell him and would like the papers. Is she within her rights to keep the papers from me or are they legally mine?


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Unfortunately, yes, it is her ( very lousy) right....maybe thinks she is going to sell the papers separately..


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## watcher (Apr 26, 2016)

Yeah, unfortunately. My horses original owner is doing the same thing. She was going to put him down because he failed at show but then I rescued him and she wanted 2000$ for his papers because if he was going to live she wanted some money off him. 

Hopefully you get it figured out!


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

If you have a bill of sale for the horse you may have some recourse in small claims court. If not then probably not much you can do. We have the same issue with a Fox Trotter mare we bought. We purchased her from someone that divorced very soon after purchasing her - the previous owner was an elderly lady who said she was keeping her papers to remember her last horse by. When I tried to reason with her and even contacted the MFTBA there was not a thing I could do!


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

I doubt that any court is going to award you the papers since you turned down the opportunity to buy them originally. IMO, it's wrong to sell a registered horse without their papers or charge more for them.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

In Canada, a person I know of, did take someone to court to get the registration papers transferred into her name. She won the case but she did have to pay a fee to the former owner, for her that wasn't the problem.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Read #11 and #13 on TRANSFERS OF OWNERSHIP and I suggest that you call the APHA (817-834-2742) for help.


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## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

I still don't get why this terrible, archaic system is still in place for breed registries.

Every time I have purchased or sold a registered horse, I have also done up a separate Bill of Sale in addition to the "Transfer of Ownership" on the back of the registration papers. You would think, that in the situation where the previous owner didn't hand over the registration papers at the time that the money was exchanged, that an additional Bill of Sale could be used as a proof of new ownership. YOU WOULD THINK.

I was able to use this method to transfer my previous mare's Arabian Breeder's Sweepstakes Nomination papers, but I haven't seen it done for a registry.

I just don't understand their reasoning behind this... Wouldn't registries make MORE money if they allowed these Bills of Sale to be used to transfer paper ownership? Since you need to have a membership in a registry to transfer the papers, they could charge you for the membership fee and the transfer at the same time. But keeping new owners out due to situations like this is literally not helping anyone and it certainly isn't bringing more people into the breed association. Stupid, stupid, stupid.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I agree, entirely, breezy! Cutting off their nose to spite their face....

APHA was extremely helpful to me in getting my stallion registered, but I had access to his dam' s previous owner ( so, his "breeder"), and since the stallion owner had not filed a stallion breeding report, APHA suspended their membership, and granted me papers.

If you did not get a transfer signed, though, it gets tricky. If you have a transfer, there may be a way to file for lost papers.....


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

In this country the papers, sadly, belong to the owner and not the horse. The easiest way to do it is to contact the old owner and since it's been a few years, as if they will give them to you now and if not, then tell them you've changed your mind and will give them the money. If you're close enough to do all this in person, I would go to them in person to do the money/paper exchange. The horse industry has made me VERY distrustful.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Here is another take, from a seller
I got a call once, from a buyer, wanting to buy a well broke black and white Appaloosa, BUt added, they did not need the papers-ie, they wanted the horse cheap
Well, my horses are all registered, and paper transfers are done, soon as horse is paid for
I think, the lower price(200 dollars less was what the buyer agreed to sell the horse for, as a grade, thus the OP bought a grade,for all tense and purpose, with no obligation for the owner to now accept the price difference, and transfer the papers
If you want a registered horse, buy a registered horse, with the owner giving you a signed transfer, and original papers, soon as the horse is paid for in full, with any funds having cleared the bank


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I won't even talk to someone about separating one of my horses from their papers. For me, the papers are their birth right and I sell registered horses. Period. Anyone who suggests they want to buy one without papers is told to go to the local auction, they can have their pick of horses without papers. 

In the event that one that I bred had somehow lost their papers, I'd be more than willing to help the new owner try to replace them by signing the breeder's portion of the forms for them. I also do up a Bill of Sale with all of the horse's info on it, in case the horse becomes separated from his papers HOPEFULLY, the purchaser will have been able to hold on to the Bill of Sale.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Silly question??? Why was this thread dug up, when the poster made ONE post, then abandoned it?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

greentree said:


> Silly question??? Why was this thread dug up, when the poster made ONE post, then abandoned it?


Because, if they're like me, people don't look at dates? It popped up in my "Subscribed Threads w/new post" list and I didn't look, just responded to Smilie's post.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

So, even though this is an old thread, I have a little 2¢..

My friend bought an *El Paso granddaughter at auction. She was just under two years old. The horse came up from Florida with about twenty other registered Arabians. Some of them found homes but many were sold to the meat guy. She was sold without papers, and without the option of getting papers, as the breeder (racing Arabians) had all these horses declared dead, so that he could write them off of his taxes. 

In Germany, at least with German Shepherds, papers belong to the dog, not the owner.


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