# My Horses Wont Gain Weight



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

Jasper and delilah wont gain weight. Jasper is 16 and Delilah is 18, and Delilah needs her teeth done. but they wont gain weight. what is the best thing to give them? is corn oil good? or Weight builder or Platform? or Dumor Rice Bran Oil or Dumor Weight Booster, Horse Supplement? what is the Best???


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

what are they currently eating??


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

hay and grass. im slowly putting them back on grain. its 10% sweet from tsc


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Please don't use that feed find something higher in nutrition lower in NSC and designed to be fed at lower amounts 

if you give me your zip code I can help you...


----------



## Ottakee (Sep 26, 2008)

We have a 30 year old gelding that we needed to put a lot of weight on when we got him.

He is on Buckeye Senior, a senior powder, beet pulp, and alfalfa pellets. We soak this into a mash 3 times a day for him. He also gets 1/2 cup of Ultimate Finish from Buckeye 3 times a day. That is really good for adding weight and helps with coat, etc. You can feed quite a bit more but we find this is enough.


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

i dont want them on anything higher than 10% protien. it makes jasper high. I live in south eastern ct. i dont feel comfortable giving my zip code on the internet. between salem, norwich, and wilimantic. i am going to feed Vintage Victory, but i was at tsc and just grabed it


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Erin_And_Jasper said:


> i dont want them on anything higher than 10% protien. it makes jasper high. I live in south eastern ct. i dont feel comfortable giving my zip code on the internet. between salem, norwich, and wilimantic. i am going to feed Vintage Victory, but i was at tsc and just grabed it



THe protien DOES NOT make them hyper the sugars and starches do ... think of a kid all pumped up on candy that is your horse on sweet feed... alot of times the higher protien sweet feeds have more corn and less fillers which is why it makes horses hyper

look for a fiber based feed ... 

What I will do is find the dealers in your state and list them with the best feed for your money 

do you have a problem adding stuff to the feeds to up the calories?? like beet pulp, alfalfa pellets/cubes, rice bran or something along those lines


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

i cant afford alfalfa, and they dont like beet pulp. im all for adding stuff. i mean i was just going to add a supliment to Vintage Victory. i just bought this because i was at tsc


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

p.s. i want low protien high fat. like a 10:12


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Buckeye Gro N Win 2lbs and Ultima 2lbs no other supplement needed .... serve wet if they will eat it that way 
Their Senior feeds are nice also 
Candence is another good one they offer
http://www.buckeyenutrition.com/cgi-bin/dealer.cgi


I am still digging


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

OK quickie before I search some more 

if you feed 6bs of 10% protien you are feeding .60 lbs of protien I edited because 6lbs is normally min on sweet feeds like this

if you feed 2lbs of 32% protien you are only feeding .64 lbs of protien 

you have to convert and multiply the numbers to get the true amount of protien they are getting :idea:


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

http://www.kentequine.com/Results.aspx


Kent Feeds :
Horsego32
Kent Senior
Granolen LS 
you can also get Triple Crown products from them 
Triple Crown Senior 
Triple Crown Low Starch


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

http://horse.purinamills.com/dealerlocator/results.asp?searchtype=cr


Good ole Purina 
the Wellslove line iis feedable from what I have found out ... have yet to get an ingredient list 
Ultium 
or the Enrich32 with alfalfa pellets or cubes soaked to soup


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

i dont like senior feeds. ive used them before.


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

senior feed are designed for the digestion of OLDER horses alot of it depends on WHAT senior feed you get also 

if you don't like the senior feeds look at the LS lines of feeds they tend to be high fat lower NSC and higher nutrition


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

ok ive decided what feed i will feed. what is a good suppliment?


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

for which feed??


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

the one i have been saying im going to feed. Vintage Victory.


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

How much of it in WEIGHT do you plan to feed?? Min is 4.5 lbs max is 13lbs http://www.blueseal.com/equine/productpages/13_VintageVictory.pdf

This feed is fairly new for them and LOOKS great on paper without converting all the numbers
http://www.blueseal.com/equine/productpages/15_VintagePerformanceLS.pdf

Since Blue Seal MAKES a vitamin/mineral supplement that is the one I would go with 
http://www.blueseal.com/equine/productpages/21_MinaViteLite.pdf


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

3.5lbs per feeding.


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

If youa re set on that feed I would call Blueseal and ask one of thier nutritionist what to add

you want to make sure you are not goign too high in some things and they are the best to help you ...most feed companies are great about helping customers too


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

i will prolly just buy weighbuilder from tsc


----------



## Rocky31 (Sep 21, 2008)

Peggysue - you're good girl! I've had good luck with Ultium - it's high fat and tons of calories - a little pricy but usually 2 lbs twice a day does it for most of the horses I've tried it on. Ultimate Finish is good and also Amplify if you need to add fat. The new Wellsolve seems to be working if you have a horse that you really need to be careful with how much starch they get - or shouldn't get!


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Erin_And_Jasper said:


> i will prolly just buy weighbuilder from tsc


Most of those products are a waste of money the best thing you can do is increase their forage ie: hay/pasture to all they wil eat in 24hours and feed a good quality low NSC feed that is HIGH in nutrition 

when you go mix and matching stuff you take the chance on sending them toxic which is a whole nother ball game that you don't wanna get into THINK KIDNEY FAILURE and other things just as bad think colick think founder


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

what is NCS??? i give them all the hay they want but they dont eat it all. of i cut it back. i prolly am going to buy a round bale for the winter and give them WeightBuilder


----------



## ohmyitschelle (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't mean to come in and cause trouble, but gosh Erin, Peggysue has been awesome, rallying up sites, looking at feeds for you etc... and you keep shutting her down... you wanted advice with feeding, and yet you don't like any of the suggestions made.
I completely agree with Peggysue, the levels of sugars in some feeds are the cause to make horses heat up.... you need to find a fibre alternative.

It seems you are unhappy with the choices offered, if you're really concerned with their weight, I suggest you speak with a nutritiionist, who will help you choose the right meal for your horses, and what supplements to add in.

Peggysue, you're a legend for finding all those links in her area!
Again, not trying to be horrible, but it does annoy me when people ask for advice, are given it, and then don't really respect it.
Sorry Erin, I'm not trying to be mean about you personally.
x


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Here try this site
http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/

it was put together by a U of I grad that was tried of not being able to understand what was being said about equine nutrition

NSC is the amount of sugars and starches in a horse's diet ... what people fail to relize when they start dumping sweet feeds into thier horses is that the horse's digestive system is not designed to digest the carbs and can cause MANY HUGE health problems including ulcers, colick and founder!! I understnad you are confused and I understand it is hard to change what has always been done ... but face ONE full blown colick with no vet avaiable to help you and you will see the "light"...


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Peggy Sue's advice is solid. I would go with what she recommends.

About protein: 
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/hrs3243#spirited

If you don't want to feed one of the higher protein ration balancers, then don't feed any grain at all. 3.5 lbs of the feed you want to give is NOT enough for full nutrition, so just don't bother.

I feed alfalfa pellets or chopped alfalfa hay (3 lbs), whole oats (1 lb), and a vitamin supplement designed for horses on little to no fortified grain. Right now I'm using Smart Pak's Smart Vite Maintenence Grass: 
http://www.smartpakequine.com/productclass.aspx?productClassid=4579

I would feed the above, plus add either whole flax seeds (2 cups) or corn oil (working up to 1 cup) or stabilized rice bran (working up to 2 lbs). 

The above would give you full nutrition plus high levels of fat. Get your horses' teeth done and be sure they are dewormed properly. If you haven't dewormed them in the past 2 months, or you used something ineffective last time, then deworm now with Ivermectin and Quest Plus in 6 weeks. That will clear out all the parasites so they will better utilize the feed they eat.


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Peggysue said:


> Here try this site
> http://www.understanding-horse-nutrition.com/
> 
> it was put together by a U of I grad that was tried of not being able to understand what was being said about equine nutrition
> ...


Sweet feed and high starch diets can also cause weight LOSS, behavioral problems, and "training issues." Once I got my horses off sweet feed and feed pellets they were easier to handle, my mare's heats were FAR less troublesome, my hard keeper GAINED weight, and my feed bill went way down, lol.


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I like all the info I've just been reading and Peggysue did a great job on research for you; but I want disagree with one point in particular.

I've been feeding a mixture of sweetfeed/pellet in a 10% protein level for well over 20 years. I've never had a horse colic from it nor have I had any behavioral problems associated with it's use. My horses are turned out 24/7 and when pasture is in poor shape I supplement with hay. If a horse is in need of weight I will feed about 2 1/2lb x 2 per day (I actually weigh their feed). As they come up to the proper weight I'll cut back, when I'm comfortable that they are maintaining, to about 1/2lb X 2. I'll adjust according to the work load and their weight.

When I got Bobo (pedigree listed in my signature), as an example, he was about 100 lb under weight and it took about 2 months to build him up. I ride him about 5 days per week and I now have to keep him in the paddock at night rather then the pasture because he is gaining too much weight. Foraging is still the best way to put weight on a horse but sweetfeed should not be a problem. and I think it gets a bad rap.

There are always examples of sweetfeed problems as Luvs2ride had but there can be problems associated with any feed.


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

iridehorses said:


> I like all the info I've just been reading and Peggysue did a great job on research for you; but I want disagree with one point in particular.
> 
> I've been feeding a mixture of sweetfeed/pellet in a 10% protein level for well over 20 years. I've never had a horse colic from it nor have I had any behavioral problems associated with it's use. My horses are turned out 24/7 and when pasture is in poor shape I supplement with hay. If a horse is in need of weight I will feed about 2 1/2lb x 2 per day (I actually weigh their feed). As they come up to the proper weight I'll cut back, when I'm comfortable that they are maintaining, to about 1/2lb X 2. I'll adjust according to the work load and their weight.
> 
> ...


at the amounts you are feeding they are most likely lacking NUTRITIONALLY even though you can't SEE it... but you also have the option of good pasture which helps TONS!!!


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Peggysue said:


> at the amounts you are feeding they are most likely lacking NUTRITIONALLY even though you can't SEE it... but you also have the option of good pasture which helps TONS!!!


Hi Peggy, You're 100% correct which is why I always use supplements to go with my feeding.


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

iridehorses said:


> Peggysue said:
> 
> 
> > at the amounts you are feeding they are most likely lacking NUTRITIONALLY even though you can't SEE it... but you also have the option of good pasture which helps TONS!!!
> ...


LOL at the amounts you are feeding you honestly would save money by using a ration type supplemet and not really need anything else ...

Think 1lb of Kent's Horsego32 a day at 47 cents a lb 

with free choice forage
click picture to enlarge!!


----------



## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

LOL you really gotta love easy keepers and pasture.

If you click on VIEW for my pics you will see Bobo under saddle that was taken last week. The two shots of his head were taken 3 months apart. The shot without his bridle was taken the week I got him and the one with was taken last week. There is a huge difference in his disposition as well as the physical.


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

I wish I had good pasture mine are on hay year round if I am lucky I get about a month of no hay ....


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

they are on pasture. my question was about Weight Buliders not about feed. i have talked to many people about grain and i have found one that works for me. i dont mean to sound rude. i was reading a book and it said horses dont need higher than a 10% protien.


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Erin_And_Jasper said:


> they are on pasture. my question was about Weight Buliders not about feed. i have talked to many people about grain and i have found one that works for me. i dont mean to sound rude. i was reading a book and it said horses dont need higher than a 10% protien.


It's not about the % at all 

5lbs of 10% is .50lbs of protien 
1lb of 32% is .32lbs of protien


----------



## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

when it says 10% it means 10% of TOTAL diet including you hay/pasture more grass hay is about 8% protien if we are lucky


----------



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Erin_And_Jasper said:


> they are on pasture. my question was about Weight Buliders not about feed. i have talked to many people about grain and i have found one that works for me. i dont mean to sound rude. i was reading a book and it said horses dont need higher than a 10% protien.


They don't need higher protein as in 10% vs 16% of the same feed. HOWEVER, you should be feeding 4-6 lbs a day of that feed for the optimum nutrition of the horse. With a ration balancer, the protein level is higher, 30-32%, but you only feed 1-2 lbs a day for total nutrition. So the horse is getting the same amount of protein either way, but more complete nutrition and better food with the ration balancer.

Think of it this way. It's like eating a whole chicken, vs. a casserole that has a whole chicken in it. You're getting the same amount of chicken either way, but the casserole has a whole lot more stuff in it that you really don't need.

Horses on adaquate hay and/or pasture don't NEED all that extra junk in sweet feed or feed pellets. If you get him OFF that stuff, he'll actually gain weight quicker, and he'll be getting more proper nutrition.

The best way to put weight on a horse is to start with a good base diet. The best diet for a horse is one with all the QUALITY hay and/or pasture he can eat (or at least 2.5% of his body weight a day, 25 lbs for an average 1,000 lb horse). After that, you should add as little as possible for complete nutrition. A ration balancer, plus whole oats or hay pellets if more calories are needed, is one of the best ways to accomplish that.

Weight gainers won't do squat if you don't have a quality diet to start with. It's like giving a skinny kid chips and candy along with white bread to gain weight. Sure, he'll gain weight and have plenty of energy, but he won't be very healthy...

Now, if you have good hay and pasture like iride has, then no, you probably don't need much of anything extra, except maybe some vitamins "just in case". But not all hay is created equal, and most people's pastures aren't fertilized for optimum livestock production.


----------



## Erin_And_Jasper (Jul 5, 2008)

ok nevermind.


----------

