# Difficult first ride on Kodak



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Kodak has been with us for 6 days now. My daughter and I both rode her twice before we bought her (on two separate days - once in an arena setting and once on a trail ride where we switched horses halfway through), but this was the first time I got on her at home. 

Kodak has been ridden western and I tacked her up English. I don't think she cared about the saddle, but wearing an English bridle is probably somewhat different for her. Not sure the bit was working well - it was a snaffle, which I chose because I saw a lengthy video in which she was being ridden in a snaffle by her previous owner. But maybe the bit was too small. I also had a really hard time getting her to take the bit. She literally had her teeth clenched and even when I stuck my thumb in right to the knuckle, she wouldn't open. She finally did though, after a few tries. I made some adjustments on the bridle to make sure it fit her. Hard to say whether the bit fits her because she was still clenching her jaw with the bit in. 

The biggest issue we had was steering. Now, I understand she is used to western steering so I used a fairly loose rein. She was tense at first and I felt her rump was pushed up and pushing me forward. Hard to describe. But maybe it's just because I'm used to Harley's old sway back that cradles me so nicely. I finally got her going fairly straight and along the rail at a walk, but when we tried the trot, she was all over the place. Her speed was not consistent - she kept accelerating and sometimes seemed to randomly slow down almost to a stop. Maybe she felt my leg against her side in a short stirrup and it felt different from a western leg. It's possible my signals were really confusing her. She was also pretty uncertain about feeling me posting, so I mostly sat the trot. Not too hard to do since she has a pretty smooth trot. But her head was often all twisted and she sometimes would go sideways. I did get her trotting a few straight lines in the end, but circles were another disaster. When I would try to get her to circle, she would twist her head into the circle and try to break into a canter and go off the circle. I brought her back to a walk, did some pretty tight figure 8's, no problem. Trotting again and the circles are a mess. 

I'm feeling discouraged, but trying to keep in mind that this horse has only been with us a few days and has so far been ridden western. I will try a different bit with her (she had a shank with a chain before) and try again tomorrow. If I work on getting her steering more precise at the walk, will that carry over at the trot? 

Monday, our coach will be here for our weekly lessons so maybe she can help. She's transitioned a few horses from Western to English before. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong. 

Oh, and of course it's possible the saddle doesn't fit her well. It seemed to fit her, but I could be wrong. 

Hoping we can make a connection eventually and work better together. Maybe she's not really an arena horse... maybe she'll just be a trail horse. I don't care if I ride in an arena myself, but my daughter would like a horse she can canter during lessons and Harley has too big a canter for her so we thought this horse would work for her. She'll be disappointed if not.


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

I suggest waiting till you coach is there to help you figure out what the issue is. Enjoy some groundwork with the new horse, giving her a good grooming, hand grazing and just spend time with her without thinking about riding.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Prairie said:


> I suggest waiting till you coach is there to help you figure out what the issue is. Enjoy some groundwork with the new horse, giving her a good grooming, hand grazing and just spend time with her without thinking about riding.


Ditto this


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I think you will be fine. She is probably not used to having ANY leg on her. She may be testing you a bit.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

are you quite sure of the fit of that English saddle? to me, this sounds like her not feeling good in that saddle.

the taking the bit issues may be old. did you tack her up on any of your trial rides? what is the state of her dental care?

and snaffle does not always equal snaffle. was what she is used to a single or double jointed mouthpiece? what about the thickness of the moutpice, the type of ring, and the width ? all things that can cause irriation in a sensitive horse.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

I think your instructor will be able to help you sort it out and problem solve. Based on other things you've said, she seems like a sort of nervous horse, so it could be just the move. She's been jostled around a lot the last few months.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

You can't tell the actual bit from a video. Yeah it's a snaffle maybe but there are a bazillion kinds.

I agree with leaving things be.

Should be an easy transition, for someone more experienced. Go slow. Ride her the way she is used to. She's also in a new place, and didn't she just get all her shots the other day? Could definitely be a bit sore.

You're also talking about adjustments and such, which is great, but do you actually KNOW how to adjust? (Not trying to be mean, I just understand you are just starting out ).

If you ride ride her how she is used to, or just don't ride. I would recommend starting out how she is used to at first too with the coach then she can help you transition. Really it just comes down to different tack and shouldn't make a huge difference.

She sounds like my ride today! But my mare is green and has had 6 months off, so not really the same lol!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree, wait for your instructor.
Having been ridden western, if it was done correctly, should nor be a problem, as western horses are started in a snaffle, two handed and with contact
There is absolutely no way to start any horse, using one hand and a loose rein!!!
The only major difference, is that a western horse is worked towards EVENTUALLY, being able to be ridden one handed and on a loose rein, but that certainly does not mean they don't remember basics, when contact and two hands were used, and one continues to use contact and two hands, very often, schooling a western horse
Far as legs, leg aids are the same, and if riding on the flat, my stirrup lengths are the same, whether I'm riding western of English
I would suspect, that either you have that bridle adjusted incorrectly, have a tight cavasson, which western horses are not used to, but far as steering her two handed-that should be 'kindergarten!
I certainly post western, while long trotting, ans so do many others


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## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

Agree with others that it will help to have your trainer there to help. When I first got Tess, it was much the same way. I could barely keep her going straight and she was counter-bending all over the place. I leased a horse for months before her and never had that hard a time and she rode easily when I tried her at their place.

She was completely green to dressage and everything I was asking her after being ridden by a child for 4 years. It was like she had no clue what I was asking. It takes time for the horse to understand a new rider in a new place in a different style of riding. It will get better as you come to understand each other better. Good luck!


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Consider that you and Kodak are just getting to know each other. The fact that you and your daughter rode her twice in a different environment has limited meaning to this first experience in your home arena. 

Since you are new to each other, you must learn to communicate with each other. Simply talking to her in a way you talk to another horse may or may not be effective. Think about communicating with a new human acquaintance. Even if you were both accustomed to speaking English, you must realize that there are many different ways of communicating in English. The English vocabulary is very large. Different people tend to use different words if brought up in different environments. They may be accustomed to different dialects or different accents. When, in addition, a person is introduced to a different environment and different circumstances, communication may become even more challenging. Some people – and some horses – become more nervous in new environments and situations, so efforts at communication should begin on a simpler level.

Remember, also, that true communication involves listening as well as speaking. Experiment. Say something – physically and/or verbally – to Kodak, and pay attention to how she responds. If she doesn’t respond as you expect, consider that she does not understand what you are saying. Try to explain things to her again in a slightly different way. Again, pay attention to how she responds. Continue to modify what you are saying and how you are saying it until you sense more understanding on Kodak’s part. Reward such understanding so that she realizes that she understands you correctly. Be patient. Build slowly on your communication, and you will find your common vocabulary increasing.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks all! Your responses are reassuring. Maybe I will just wait to ride her again on Monday. 

I understand there are many different types of snaffle. And her teeth were just done this week so that shouldn't be an issue. 

It's not that she wouldn't listen to me or do what I asked her to do, it's just that her responses were uneven (like when she would trot faster and faster or just stop suddenly) and her steering lacked precision. 

As far as accepting the bit - no, we didn't tack her up when we tried her so I don't know if she had this issue before. But because she seems very stressed from being new here, I'm guessing she's just sort of shut down. I did get it in after about 3 tries, so not so bad. I'm not that worried about that part - I just wanted to give an idea of her frame of mind when we started. 

Yogiwick, I understand what you are saying and NO, I am NOT a trainer and I fully recognize that. I do know the difference between Western riding and English, since I grew up taking lessons in Western and am now taking lessons in English, but I agree that someone more experienced should look at the issues and guide us. 

When we rode her at her place, she was a much better trail horse than arena horse too. Maybe I could take her on a little trail ride around the property? When I trail ride, I often revert to my Western training, because I always just did trails when I rode Western. 

As far as the saddle goes, it's possible that it doesn't fit very well - hard for me to say. It looked ok, but I'm not a professional. Still, I went through about 6 saddles on Harley last fall before we found one that fit well, so I do have some experience with ill-fitting saddles. I think this was more of a bridle/bit issue or even the way I rode her. Maybe my body was too far forward, which was causing her to accelerate. 

I know that ideally, my coach would be here trying to help us, but she'll only be here one hour a week so the more I can pin down the issue, the easier it will be for her to help us. 

Worse comes to worse, maybe I'll have to put Kodak in a retraining program. She's a good mare and is still very young (9) so there's lots of time to turn her around. No vices, no refusal, no kick or buck. Just not the precise Ferrarri steering I'm used to with Harley


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Tihannah said:


> Agree with others that it will help to have your trainer there to help. When I first got Tess, it was much the same way. I could barely keep her going straight and she was counter-bending all over the place. I leased a horse for months before her and never had that hard a time and she rode easily when I tried her at their place.
> 
> She was completely green to dressage and everything I was asking her after being ridden by a child for 4 years. It was like she had no clue what I was asking. It takes time for the horse to understand a new rider in a new place in a different style of riding. It will get better as you come to understand each other better. Good luck!


Thanks for the encouraging words! It's good to know that others have had the same experience and have overcome it!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Smilie said:


> I agree, wait for your instructor.
> Having been ridden western, if it was done correctly, should nor be a problem, as western horses are started in a snaffle, two handed and with contact
> There is absolutely no way to start any horse, using one hand and a loose rein!!!
> The only major difference, is that a western horse is worked towards EVENTUALLY, being able to be ridden one handed and on a loose rein, but that certainly does not mean they don't remember basics, when contact and two hands were used, and one continues to use contact and two hands, very often, schooling a western horse
> ...


Thanks - this all makes a lot of sense. And yes, now that I think of it, the lady who sold her to us was posting on her in a Western saddle so it shouldn't make a difference. I did work it in after a while, but I felt like when I first started trotting her and posting, it just made her even more confused about my cues. And I may have been inadvertently squeezing her while posting. I guess she's going to make me a better rider!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Coach is not available for our lesson Monday. I've asked if she can come another night. I don't want to put this off too long.


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## WhattaTroublemaker (Aug 13, 2013)

I find when I get used to riding one horse -trouble- I'm VERY off when I ride others and I have to really think back to when I was in lessons. Trouble is way more forgiving and we're a lot more in synch than I am with the "horse down the road." When we were trying horses for my sister I realized i was all over the place. I had pretty much the same thing happen to me that happened to you. This nice old broke school horse wouldn't go down the rail straight, I took her in atrocious circles, she would stop dead all the time, it was awful. Her owner jumps on and she was as smooth as butter. 

I'm 100% confident that if I kept riding that mare, and really remembered what I learned in lessons id have no problem after awhile.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

Acadianartist said:


> Thanks all! Your responses are reassuring. Maybe I will just wait to ride her again on Monday.
> 
> I understand there are many different types of snaffle. And her teeth were just done this week so that shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> ...


 Most likely she is used to turning with seat cues and not rein. A responsive horse will move/turn if your leg pressure changes or weight shifts. You may have a Ferrarri and need driving lessons.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

All three of my horses did not act perfectly when I first got them and they all needed a transition period. I rode them, but I did not have the expectations of them like I would a horse that I had been riding for a while. All three were different. The first was a 18 year old saddlebred ex show horse (so she was trained) that had not been ridden in eight years. The second was a green four year old friesian/saddlebred. She knew walk, trot, and canter but she was not very balanced yet in the canter. The third was a six year old morgan who was basically a rescue that I got before she got too bad off. She was also green and to a point still is as I don't have the time to put into her. She is still way better off than when I first got her. She was the worst because she had some ground issues. I still can't get her to just back out of a trailer without practically pulling her out. Still a big deal for her. 

Kodak very well might have precise ferrarri steering but she's not as tolerant of mistakes as Harley is. I had this same problem with the older saddlebred that I got mostly because I don't ride saddleseat and had no idea about the cues that she was used to. She was trying to do things that she thought I expected of her so it was like I was speaking Russian and she was speaking Japanese. We finally got it together eventually and started speaking the same language. It took a lot of patients on both of our parts. 

Honestly, it really sounds like Kodak is trying for you though.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

When I get a new horse I put them in quarantine for 30 days. That keeps them from spreading anything to my other horses and gives me time to make sure they're up to date with de-worming, farrier, teeth (which you have done already) and gives them time to relax and learn that this is home. I don't even let them out to pasture with my horses until after 30 days. I never ride them and would rarely work them on the ground. The first 30 days are spend hand walking and working on ground manners, feeding, grooming and letting us get to know each other. It seems to work out well for me, when I do things this way.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks all! 

Dreamcatcher - I have heard a lot of different opinions on that. Some say let the horse be a horse for a while. Some say work them from day one.

Because Kodak is shy and anxious, I feel it's best to handle her a lot. She is already beginning to relax with me and lets me touch her whole head, even ears, whereas when she arrived, I couldn't go near her face. I think in this case, lots of handling is a good thing. If I just let her run free for a month, I think she'd take even longer to turn around. She is quickly learning that I do good things for her and am always gentle and is starting to move towards me rather than away (though I have to close the gap because she won't come right up). Baby steps.

And as far as keeping them in separate pasture for 30 days, that's just not realistic in my situation. They're getting along great and I had her tested for a series of illnesses before I purchased her (had them draw blood as part of the PPE) and have now had her vaccinated. Harley is not going anywhere for the next three weeks, so hopefully if she had anything contagious, it would show up before then. 

I do think you're all right about us speaking different languages. It's not like she was refusing to move, or running off with me. It was just very different from riding Harley. She was good at the walk (I was able to get her to walk along the rail, do circles and figure 8s) so maybe start with that and build up? But I definitely want her wearing comfortable tack first. I have a couple of other bits and another bridle and saddle I can try. 

My coach said she may be able to squeeze us in tomorrow. I hope so!


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

With donkeys it took a full 30 days to become themselves. Working them before that 30 days was up was just a disaster. I was working with a personality that just wasn't their normal.

Horses, I haven't notice it that much BUT all but one of our ponies knew us before coming to our place so it wasn't huge transition for them. The horse that didn't know us.... well he was a bit sore when he arrived due to him unloading himself on the way here. So we just let him be a week or 2.

I think a period of time to become at home is a necessity for the most part. Otherwise, I feel one is just bucking issues that just arent normal issues. Almost like making a mountain out of a mole hill.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Acadianartist said:


> Thanks all!
> 
> Dreamcatcher - I have heard a lot of different opinions on that. Some say let the horse be a horse for a while. Some say work them from day one.
> 
> Because Kodak is shy and anxious, I feel it's best to handle her a lot. She is already beginning to relax with me and lets me touch her whole head, even ears, whereas when she arrived, I couldn't go near her face. I think in this case, lots of handling is a good thing. If I just let her run free for a month, I think she'd take even longer to turn around. She is quickly learning that I do good things for her and am always gentle and is starting to move towards me rather than away (though I have to close the gap because she won't come right up). Baby steps.


I'm not saying don't work with them, I just don't do training type work (lunging, riding, jumping, trail) with them. I hand walk, we work on any catching issues that come up, handle feet, legs, ears, face, all over the body, personal space, trailer loading and unloading, manners at feeding, etc. There's a world of stuff you can do without lunging or riding and I have just found that 30 days seems just about right for most horses to work through their nervousness and to lean to start trusting the new human in their life. During that 30 days, I can see how they respond to my cues and commands, what they know and get a better understanding of "their dialect" and they mine. Then when we get to training, I have a fair idea of where any holes are and what I'll need to work on to make myself more clear to them.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

churumbeque said:


> Most likely she is used to turning with seat cues and not rein. A responsive horse will move/turn if your leg pressure changes or weight shifts. You may have a Ferrarri and need driving lessons.


I was about to say that, it sounds like the problem is not her not being sensitive but her being overly sensitive and an "uneven" horse as described REALLY needs a very steady rider. As I said this is how my mare has been being restarted just now. I literally put on music and made a point of riding very steadily and rhythmically and she steadied and was doing great. If you aren't the steadiest rider (which there are multiple reasons for) it will just make things worse. Work on having a consistent post, not leaning, just sitting back and "centering" and let her come to you, don't go to her. You can even count in your head to keep that rhythm. I do that a lot when I'm trying to focus on being steady. She sounds like she will be a REALLY fun ride when you guys click! Agree she's trying, just maybe a little too hard! A horse can be a calm beginner type but still need a certain type of rider for certain type of things. Appreciate her try and work on yourself and don't worry too much about her and she will relax.

Why she was different when you tried her could simply be the new place, so I wouldn't stress about that.

If she's better on the trails that may be worth a try. Just stroll around, it doesn't need to be a big deal. I agree I wouldn't expect a lot.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

One thing I have found useful when riding a horse that I am not familiar with is to be very focused on what I want and where I am going. 
If I want to ride down the long side of the area I am not looking down at my horse to see how she is doing, I look straight ahead and fix on a spot that I want to go to, this has often helped the horse travel straight. If I am not clear in my mind where I want to go it's harder for the horse to figure things out.
Also if the horse starts to trot and even move faster I leave things alone as long as she doesn't start to canter, the trot can be irregular but as long as the horse is trotting I don't fuss too much about the speed at first, just let her move along and gradually the horse will settle in to a regular gait. If I feel the horse is going to stop from the trot I will encourage it to move on before they actually stop.
If you want to do a circle with her, try looking to the direction of the circle (not down at the horse) and shift your body weight to the direction you want to go and see if she responds to it, then use the leg and rein to help if needed, doesn't have to be a perfect circle in the beginning, accept any turn that is the direction you want and build on it gradually as you get to know each other better.

I agree with the others, your instructor can help you a lot with starting out with your new mare


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Don't panic is my first response, I did exactly the opposite to you, I have taken on a mare who was ridden English all her life and threw a Western saddle on her "Welcome to my world, you are now Western" To be really honest though, not such a huge transition as I have to describe what I am currently doing as "Wenglish Riding" Western tack, but very much English in the fact that I two hand in a snaffle, direct rein and ride in contact.

The issues you describe though of uneven pace and horrible trot circles, I can so relate to, when I test rode her we did good, once she was mine though we have been through some ups and downs, I bought her last September, 6 weeks or so ago I would have happily sold her, now we suddenly get each other and things are so much better. All this to say, wait, work with your trainer, she will act as a facilitator allowing Kodak and you to learn each others language, until you communicate well.

I know others will laugh at this idea, but I do find that mares are a little more difficult to get to know and understand, they don't give of themselves easily, but once you become friends she is the sort of person who will bring a shovel to the woods and help you bury a body!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thank you for those encouraging responses! I hear what you're all saying and yes, it's entirely possible I gave her mixed signals. Today, I just hung out with the horses. She is definitely much more relaxed with me as each day goes by. Instead of a fearful, bug-eyed look, she shows interest and curiosity and really enjoys her scratches. 

Unfortunately, my coach has been kicked by one of her horses and thinks her arm is broken (she is going in for X-rays tomorrow) so no lesson this week. I will ride her again though, trying to apply all of what you've suggested. Maybe I'll even take her around the property for an easy trail ride. Will try to be more focused on what I'm asking of her and will try a different saddle. Part of the problem was probably that I didn't know what to expect and was apprehensive. I know I'm not a great rider and am not equipped to deal with major issues so I tend to be cautious. She needs a strong leader because she's insecure. I need to keep my requests simple and clear.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Hope your coach is OK!!!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Why would your coach wait to get X-rays? A potential broken arm should be checked out right away to avoid complications, plus it would hurt like heck.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I think this just needs a little time and patience.

You, and the horse, will need to adjust to each other.....

None of my horses like to be ridden at home and are total different horses on the trail.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

^^^What @Yogiwick says. Bare in mind I haven't done western, it sounds to me like she is quite green. As in the stopping/running forward is something a greenbroke horse would do. But this of course doesn't sit right with the fact that you and your daughter both tried her out a couple of times and she was fine.

I agree with how yogiwick would deal with it, and also walk/trot over poles makes them watch where their feet are going too.

Believe in yourself. Even getting on and walking round and across the arena to get the feel of each other is good. Stick with the snaffle for now (if it fits). Look forward to hearing how it goes when your trainer is there. Sorry to hear about her arm, hope all is well.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I don't think she's green ShirtHotTeez. Look at this video. The rider has her going in circles and even rides her without a bridle!

If anyone can shed some light on how this person is riding her and what cues she is using (legs mostly? Seat?), that would be most helpful! She clearly has good control.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

natisha said:


> Why would your coach wait to get X-rays? A potential broken arm should be checked out right away to avoid complications, plus it would hurt like heck.


Not exactly my call Natisha. We're not talking a compound fracture here, probably a crack, if at all. But it's not like I have any say in when she goes to the doctor.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I did not watch the video....but if you were riding her English, not really sure of your body control, and she is used to being ridden western, and can be controlled with just body language, then you were just confusing her......the western saddle has a whole lot more support on the horse's back, AND she is used to having to "listen" through 4 thick leather layers and a solid tree. 

Just give her some time, and be SURE you are looking where you want her to go, and not trying to use too many other cues. 

Hope your coaches arm is ok!


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## Folly (Jan 27, 2015)

Acadianartist - I suspect you are a bit like me. I kept looking for problems with my new mare when I got her about 4 months ago. Every time something seemed like an issue I'd panic a bit that I'd made a mistake, but next time I'd work with her gently the issues would melt away. We are now communicating really well and I love her. I realized about a month ago that I finally was trusting her (and she seems to be trusting me) and had figured out how to cue her correctly though still working on that. She is very calm but 'has the buttons' and I definitely don't know how to use them all. 

I started reading Bill Dorrance's book "True Horsemanship Through Feel" (recommended by several on this forum), and I think it has helped me a lot. It's a funny book, written very conversationally by this trainer in his 90's and at first I wondered where the sometimes rambling dialog was all going, but by a few chapters in his tone is mesmerizing and relaxing - and very down to earth. It's like having coffee with an old master and soaking it in. 

Anyway, she looks very well broke and like a very good girl. I bet you guys are just speaking slightly different languages right now.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Artist- I got a new horse in April. She is just now showing personality. Take time and continue to ride- but for me the ride would be more of a mosey- just let her relax - personally I would not ride with a "goal" such as I want to do 2 circles and trot poles more like lets mosey around the arena and I will scratch and rub you and let you know I am a friend.

My little mare is testing me now and that is fine - before she would ride all bundled up - tail tucked in and slightly fearful. She has relaxed and is now at the testing phase. This is OK by me - I want to see her personality and I want her to know what her limits are with me.

Good luck- I am sure she will come around


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If I buy a horse that's supposed to be well trained, ridden to date and safe for a child and a novice rider I do not expect to have to give it any time at all to settle down in a new home. I used to buy a lot of horses from sales in the UK, depending on the sale warranty you have 24 hours or 48 hours to try them when you get home so they go straight out on the roads, fields, tracks and in an arena to see how they match up to 'what it said on the label' and if they don't satisfy me they go back
I saw the video of her ridden in an arena and she looked quiet and clearly used to being ridden in one
I saw the video (here it is again) of her ridden on the trails and there is nothing remotely light and subtle about the way that guy rides her - his legs are going all the time!! 
She does look as if she's always ridden on either a very loose rein or neck reined and so might not understand English contact - but you rode her yourself, did you not notice that then?
I didn't notice the date on the arena video with her original owner - has she maybe had some time off work and the seller you had her from rushed her back into it and he's maybe way harder, rougher and more forceful sort of rider than you or your daughter? Sometimes horses that have been pushed into situations like that resent being ridden and only do it because they're bullied into it and can take a while to learn to enjoy work again - to become a willing participant rather than a begrudging one
She look quiet enough on the second video but look at how she throws her head up at 2:47 when he reaches for it - just like the problems you've been having. At least she looks pretty sensible but I get the feeling that she might need an experienced trainer working with her to transition her to where you and your daughter want her to be


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

In the first video, she is in basic training, being ridden in a snaffle , with two hands, and with head carriage not yet consistent. She is being ridden there with contact, however light, and is along ways off from truly being ridden just off of sat and legs , on a loose rein!
The rider is also using three walls most of the time to help guide the horse, not truly riding a good circle off the walls
The bittless, appears to be just with a halter, so no big deal, as jr horses are often alternated between the two
Looks like that girl has her going well, as a junior horse, and then someone just bought her, put a curb on her and trail rode, thus I very much doubt she was ever an advanced western horse
She certainly understands contact, as even western horses have to be started with contact, and with that contact used, again, whenever the horse falls apart, until the horse learns to carry himself most of the time, without the contact needed
What she will not understand, is relatively constant strong contact, even when she is going correctly, as the western horse is given complete release, when going correctly, and trusted to stray that way
Just because you show them on aloose rein, does not mean you never use contact in training/maintaining that horse, as needed, using the right combo of legs also, of course.
That is the most misunderstood concept I find, in people that have never trained a western horse, just seen them ridden eventually on a loose rein, that they don't understand contact!!!!!
She looks like she was sold, when she had a fairly good start on her, to someone that then just moved her to a curb and trail rode-without the training, to make her truly into a brilde horse


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

In the first video, she is also using either draw reins or some type of martingale, and if you look at her actual reins, not that loose. Take those off, and I bet even there, you would see some of what you are seeing with the second owner!
Horses don't really learn to carry themselves , if you always use some artificial devise. Take that off, and what you really have, shows up
She does appear quiet enough!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks for posting those Jaydee. I posted the first one because it's closer to how I'd like to ride her. In the other two, the man riding her is always bumping her with his legs, not sure why. Maybe he wants to keep her looking upbeat and energetic? All I know is that I don't need to do that to keep her going happily. I test-rode my share of pokey horses and this is not one. She is quiet, yes, but not plodding. Not jiggy like Harley on a trail ride either, just right. She usually goes into a gait fairly easily and stays in it until told differently (with a couple of exceptions when she broke into a canter, but I'm attributing this to my legs being against her sides in the English saddle). The only real issue was steering in the trot (though I didn't try to do much precision work at a canter so this problem might show up there too). 

Smilie, I hear what you're saying about the martingale in the first video. Again, not sure why it was being used. Kodak doesn't really throw her head up, but she was twisting it sideways when I rode her in a circle which just tells me she wasn't sure what I was asking of her. And in the first video, she is riding her without anything on her head (look closely at 4:08 and after... the horse is not wearing a halter) which to me, is fairly impressive. It tells me that Kodak has, at least in the past, been ridden exclusively from the seat and legs (you can see the rider shifting her weight, especially when the horse isn't wearing any head gear). She is extremely responsive to voice cues as well and will stop on a dime at the word whoa, even at a canter and even without any pulling on the reins.

Going back to jaydee's suggestion - you may be right that the first video was a year or two ago and that since then, she has been ridden very differently. Hopefully she can revert back to light contact and seat driven riding. I certainly do not have tight contact with my horse's mouth - my coach has often said I have very light hands. This is partly because I grew up riding Western with long reins. I know Kodak neck reins, but I'm not sure I want to ride her that way so not sure whether I should encourage it or not. 

Bottom line is that we won't have access to a coach for a least a week, maybe longer, so I will take her out once or twice for an easy, relaxing ride to see how she does.


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Smilie said:


> In the first video, she is also using either draw reins or some type of martingale, and if you look at her actual reins, not that loose. Take those off, and I bet even there, you would see some of what you are seeing with the second owner!
> Horses don't really learn to carry themselves , if you always use some artificial devise. Take that off, and what you really have, shows up
> She does appear quiet enough!


I noticed this, too. At first I thought it was a training fork/martingale, but I think they are actually draw reins. I think that is your problem right there...and I'm not suggesting you go throw on a set of draw reins. But as Smilie pointed out, taking those away will highlight the gap. I think she has enough fundamentals and is certainly quiet enough that she just needs freshened up from the beginning. It won't be nearly as daunting as it sounds...."OMG I HAVE TO START FROM THE BEGINNING!?!?!?!" ...yes and no. I think she needs to be ridden with contact and learn how to carry herself but I doubt it will be a hard task to accomplish. 

BTW- she's a cute little thing and a pretty nice mover. I bet she'd be fun with some cows  (I know, not your thing)


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

I would just like to add this after watching ALL of the videos of her now. 

She's very patient and incredibly willing.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

jenkat86 said:


> I would just like to add this after watching ALL of the videos of her now.
> 
> She's very patient and incredibly willing.


I think so jenkat. I think she's also a genuinely quiet, even-tempered horse. So while things aren't perfect between us right now, I think she will make a wonderful horse eventually. She's been jostled around a bit in the last couple of months, maybe the last couple of years even. Someone was rough with her and created some anxiety. I'm not a trainer, but I am patient and gentle. She really looks to me for reassurance and is trusting me more each day that goes by. We may need help, but I think we'll get there eventually.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

These are some photos of her from when they were advertising her - I think she's just used to a more confrontational way of riding but it likely isn't the best approach for her and its made her cautious/anxious and not very willing in the true sense of the word
I'm sure with your patience and a different approach when you start her retraining to English you'll find she's a much happier horse for it


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> I think so jenkat. I think she's also a genuinely quiet, even-tempered horse. So while things aren't perfect between us right now, I think she will make a wonderful horse eventually. She's been jostled around a bit in the last couple of months, maybe the last couple of years even. Someone was rough with her and created some anxiety. I'm not a trainer, but I am patient and gentle. She really looks to me for reassurance and is trusting me more each day that goes by. We may need help, but I think we'll get there eventually.


Have confidence in yourself and start working on her. I'm sure that with your calm, quiet and thinking approach you won't make any bad mistakes. Just be careful to always give her release when she gets something right and she'll soon learn what you want from her. Don't be afraid to experiment with different cues and different degrees of contact until you find what she responds to. Take your time and enjoy developing your own mutual understanding.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks for the pics jaydee! The Internet is really an amazing tool for researching a horse's past! I had found those pics and was impressed with the barrel racing one. However, we won't be riding her like that in the foreseeable future. 

Thanks for your kind words Bondre. I will try to remember to always give release. I know it won't always be easy, but I'm hoping that in the end, it will be a rewarding journey.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Certainly looks like she has had lots of exposure, making her 'broke', and that often counts way more then little bits of finesse that are missing, and which you can add, with time and patience.
The mind and willingness seem to be there.!
She has been used as a 'working horse', from cattle to trail riding to running barrels, yet seems to handle it all without blowing, Much easier to teach such a horse relaxation, then taking a horse that has only been arena ridden, rides great there,upper level, but has a major melt down if asked to work at speed, work cattle, or even just calmly ride out
I rather have such a horse any day. Good luck with her!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

That calm attitude is worth a lot - even the head shy bit is easily explained, someone's been a bit rough with her but she'll get over it, just always remember to not raise your hand too sharply or suddenly directly at her head and she'll be OK
Most of the problems you're having with her I had with Lou plus some as she was very distrustful of people and she's still not confident around strangers, especially men, if she felt at all threatened she'd go into attack mode.
The first time I rode her here it seemed to be all stop/go with no consistency in her speed and length of stride. I'm more used to horses that when you ask them to go they keep going until you ask them for something else but with her if I didn't keep asking she'd stop - and could she stop, I was up around her ears several times because she thought I wanted her to come to a sudden halt when I'd stopped pushing her forwards


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> I don't think she's green ShirtHotTeez. Look at this video. The rider has her going in circles and even rides her without a bridle!
> 
> If anyone can shed some light on how this person is riding her and what cues she is using (legs mostly? Seat?), that would be most helpful! She clearly has good control.
> 
> JWH color peppy star - YouTube


What I see is a CALM CONFIDENT STEADY rider. To the extent that you really just need miles on different horses and even the best novice cannot mimic.

I see a nice little horse that responds well to the type of rider and knows what is being asked. I do NOT see a finished/consistent horse. Does her tempo look even to you? She is very hurried and uneven.

I am not at all surprised she is acting the way you described for you.

I'm not saying you made a poor purchase, but I don't think she is quite what you thought she was. I'm not sure about the "husband horse" thing. But, you are obviously a kind caring person who is aware and I think working on your confidence and taking lots of lessons with your trainer she will be a good match for you. Same for your daughter if she has those qualities. She is definitely a nice little horse and that's the most important thing, everything else is just training.

She does remind me of my mare who is green and did not do very well (at all) in a lesson program.

**Good point on the "body control" that is sort of what I am getting at with the "steady/self confident" and why I suggest focusing on a tempo, it will help you which will help her. She is obviously ridden off of body control seeing as she is bridle less and that can be lost a lot in English riding (though IS equally important). I think she is just "fine tuned" and you are not.

*** None of that stuff is AT ALL meant as a criticism or even to say you are a beginner. I'm simply talking about a certain level of self control and confidence that some beginners have and some experienced rider's don't. It's something you need to be aware of, I'm not saying you don't have those things, but you (maybe) don't have the "it" I'm talking about where those things are fluid and natural. If she is uneven you should not be worried and relax MORE, not worry about what's going on. It's hard I know! I hope that makes sense! The RIGHT rider is what she needs and I know you can do that.

I do note that she takes the bridle just fine.

I wrote this before I finished reading and am not going to make any changes but to say that I completely agree with the others!!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

You're right Yogiwick, I was hoping this was going to be a push-button, jump on and go type of horse. I'm not even sure anymore that there is such a thing. 

Did I have inklings that maybe everything wasn't perfect when I tried her out? Yes, in retrospect, I did. But I felt it wasn't anything that couldn't be overcome, even with my very basic knowledge of horsemanship and riding (and with some help from my coach of course). Because what I was really looking for was a totally steady, reliable horse that would not put myself or my daughter at risk. She has shown no vices whatsoever, even when she is fearful. No rearing, no bucking, no kicking, no biting, no refusing to go forward, and no running away with the bit. That meant a lot to me. 

I DO consider myself a beginner in many ways so don't feel like pointing that out is a criticism. However, I've had horses in my youth and been around them most of my life. I feel this does make me a confident handler, albeit not yet a confident rider since my formal riding education is very limited. 

Am I the rider Kodak needs? I guess we'll see. I'd say that I am a calm, steady rider with a light hand. I don't have all the finesse she may need and I am still working on my own confidence, but am a strong enough rider (I think) that I can at least bluff that part a little. She clearly needs a leader so I will have to work on becoming that leader. 

And yes, she took the bridle well in the video. Not sure why she wouldn't take it from me - I think it's just tension. Her teeth were clenched tight, like when you're really stressed about something. Once she relaxed a little, I was able to slip the bit in. I think it's all related to her current anxious state and think it will improve as she relaxes more. Harley had a terrible habit of throwing his head up as soon as I took the halter off to bridle him. But within a couple of weeks, we worked through it and now he just hangs his head low for me to put in the bit easily. 

I didn't ride her tonight since it was pouring rain yet again. But my daughter and I went to the barn, groomed both horses (Kodak is still getting used to cross-ties, but when you put her somewhere, I swear, she doesn't move a muscle until you tell her to - I could probably just have had her ground-tied the whole time and she would have stood there like a statue). Afterwards, I put them out in the pasture and a few minutes later, went out to give Harley a carrot. Kodak ran right over to me looking for hers. That's a big improvement over a horse that I had a hard time catching before. I've noticed her head is always focused on me (ears going in every direction, especially when I talk to her) whereas she used to move away from me. 

I'm not blind to the challenges we may face, but I am choosing to focus on the positive. I think she can be a really good little horse eventually so if it takes time, I'm ok with that. She doesn't have to be a show horse, I just have to be able to practice a few things in the arena and be able to take her out on trails safely.


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> She has shown no vices whatsoever, even when she is fearful. No rearing, no bucking, no kicking, no biting, no refusing to go forward, and no running away with the bit. That meant a lot to me.


That is worth a ton!! A horse that isn't mean can be worked with. That is exactly why we bought (and are happy with) our horse, even though he probably isn't as broke as what we really needed. 

Just look at the progress you've made with her in very short time. You're already seeing big results! I'm sure things will continue to improve until she becomes the horse you're searching for. Maybe you can have your daughter take a video of you riding so others can give more advice? (not me, I have no clue LOL)

I hope you don't regret your purchase because I think she is a very special little horse. Not that you've given any inkling that you have regretted it!


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Yes I agree since seeing the video's again, she obviously is not green. Perhaps it is just your uncertainty communicating itself to her. The more you get on the sooner you will get to know her and by the time your trainer is feeling up to returning that will give you more direction and boost your confidence. From everything i've seen and what you have said, I still think she will turn out to be the perfect horse for you both. She is just different from Harley.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I'll preface this by saying that if you all don't see me in HF anymore, it's not because I crushed my skull from falling off one of my horses  I was locked out because of the whole password issue and honestly, I have had it with this forum. It just requires too much energy to keep dealing with the technical issues. 

I did sign back in because someone sent me a PM and I didn't want to just ignore it. 

Also, I wanted to update all of you about Kodak. I decided she just needs lots of time and miles on her. Since we bought her as a trail horse, I decided to focus on that for now. My coach will be here on Monday (the arm is better) to do a lesson so we can work on the other issues, but I rode her this morning and she was fantastic! I can't tell you how happy that made me (well, you probably all know!). Her steering was precise - with light contact, just a little neck reining when necessary to get the message across and with leg and body cues. I didn't trot her, however, but I feel like if we keep working on the steering at the walk maybe it can carry over to the trot. 

I also took both horses on a quick trail ride around the property. I started with Harley and as always, he was spooky and didn't want to go. But we got it done. Then I rode Kodak and she was just a delight to ride. No spook, no refusal or hesitation. She didn't accelerate on the way home either, not even when she was in sight of the barn. 

Overall, I'm greatly relieved and feel she is going to make a very solid horse. Just thought I'd share it all with you! I didn't really do a lot different, but I rode with long stirrups and made sure my legs were away from her body. I also was very focused on achieving specific goals. I was tempted to extend the trail ride with her because it was going so well, but decided against it. I felt we should keep things happy and positive. She is definitely warming up to me too. I see a new softness in her eyes when she sees me approach rather than a look of fear. 

Thanks again for all your advice!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Sounds positive!


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Hang on in. despite our frustrations with the website disruptions, it really is not as easy as you would think it should be. We don't want to lose our friends.


Background computer-speak is like 3 or 4 different foreign people arguing about doing something and all interfering with each other yet still working to make the desired outcome happen. And every time you fix something there is a good chance it has messed something else up. It really is just a matter of time without knowing how much time.

So when we vent our frustrations, we should rein it in a bit so it is not offensive. They do understand, and will get there eventually.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I understand ShirtHotTeez. I'm assuming everyone is doing the best they can. But as I said, it just requires too much energy to deal with the constant problems. It's just not worth it. 

On the password change thing, I never got an email, I just tried to log on one day and couldn't. I tried to re-set my password, never got the password re-set email (and yes, I checked my junk folder). Tried to create a new account so I could get in here and tell the mods I was having problems, couldn't do that either. Like I said, if it hadn't been for one member who did something really nice for me and sent me a pm, I would not be here. 

The new site is causing my computers to crash every time. I assume eventually we will no longer be able to use the "classic" site. There is a script running in the background on the updated site that does not do well on any of my computers. So it's just a matter of time until I have to deal with that issue.

I'm not trying to be negative - I know everyone wants to keep this forum going and is trying hard. I'm just explaining why I may no longer be in here. You've all been so kind that I didn't want you to wonder what happened to me.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I guess they never have these technical glitches over at FB....lol! Sarcasm....

This is not criticism of you.....but an observation that maybe will apply to someone reading to whom it may apply....I know you know this.

Everyone wants a push button horse. Whenever a good rider rides or drives, it LOOKS easy. It looks easy because they feel the problem coming, and correct it BEFORE it happens. The horse looks push button, but like that duck paddling underwater, there is a lot going on just under the surface.

So let's take your bridling issue. Experienced person walks up, horse immediately senses that experience. New person walks up, horse says, uh oh, I smell adrenaline...what's wrong? Horse tilts head, and opens eyes a little wider. 
If horse does this to expo, then she corrects it. If horse does this to newby, she doesn't realize it, and ignores it. 

Put the bridle over the head. Put the bit up to the teeth. Expy senses a little tension, and automatically relaxes, gives the horse a little chance to relax, then continues. Newby does not realize there is tension, and horse is really wondering what is wrong, so he starts stepping back in the cross ties, raising his head to see where the predator is. 

Expy still has the horse calm, and asks for the mouth to open. If the horse does not, she sticks a thumb in, presses on the bar, presses harder immediately if the response is not immediate, escalates pressure until the mouth opens and the bit goes in. 

My advice? Relax. Do not expect so much perfection from that wonderful Kodak. Neither of you are doing anything wrong.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

greentree said:


> I guess they never have these technical glitches over at FB....lol! Sarcasm....
> 
> This is not criticism of you.....but an observation that maybe will apply to someone reading to whom it may apply....I know you know this.
> 
> ...


Thanks... but I put in the bridle on the first try yesterday  She just needed to relax and unclench those teeth. 

But your support has really meant a lot to me and prevented me from going into total meltdown when things didn't go so well, so thanks again!


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

It will be really sad not to see you on the forum


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Rainaisabelle said:


> It will be really sad not to see you on the forum


Maybe when I get around to replacing my old computer  Meantime, I'll still pop in once in a while.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> You're right Yogiwick, I was hoping this was going to be a push-button, jump on and go type of horse. I'm not even sure anymore that there is such a thing.
> 
> Did I have inklings that maybe everything wasn't perfect when I tried her out? Yes, in retrospect, I did. But I felt it wasn't anything that couldn't be overcome, even with my very basic knowledge of horsemanship and riding (and with some help from my coach of course). Because what I was really looking for was a totally steady, reliable horse that would not put myself or my daughter at risk. She has shown no vices whatsoever, even when she is fearful. No rearing, no bucking, no kicking, no biting, no refusing to go forward, and no running away with the bit. That meant a lot to me.
> 
> ...


"Did I have inklings that maybe everything wasn't perfect when I tried her out? Yes, in retrospect, I did. But I felt it wasn't anything that couldn't be overcome, even with my very basic knowledge of horsemanship and riding (and with some help from my coach of course). Because what I was really looking for was a totally steady, reliable horse that would not put myself or my daughter at risk. She has shown no vices whatsoever, even when she is fearful. No rearing, no bucking, no kicking, no biting, no refusing to go forward, and no running away with the bit. That meant a lot to me."

And in that essence you did buy the right horse, as I said, you can't train that! Everything else can be developed, or as you say "overcome". 

I like the "Expy" lol.

Also, I am also beyond unhappy about getting locked out of my account for no reason, you are not alone!! There didn't used to be all these problems until "upgrades" were made so.. :/.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm sorry that you had the problems with the password fiasco - but please bear in mind that you weren't on your own and the entire Mod Team was also locked out
I'm not techie minded enough to know what went wrong but change was done because of hacking concerns that affected all of the forums the company owns - though I know that LinkedIn has just had the same trouble with hackers and everyone on that site had to change their passwords
It's happened and hopefully won't happen again but in the bigger picture its was just a nuisance and far worse things are happening in the world and on the whole this forum does try to be a friendly place to hang out.


That said - I'm pleased that Kodak is settling in and you're feeling better about her


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I was offline for a bit , too, with password issues. frustrating, but I'd try hard to get back. you all are family. can't just walk away.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I did enjoy my time on this Forum and feel I know you all, but it's just a matter of time before something else goes wrong. I have my account working again for now, but who knows for how long. As I said, none of my computers can handle the new site and I assume the "classic" view will only be available for a certain amount of time. That means that at some point, I will be dropping out of sight again. I just wanted you all to know that it's just because of technical issues rather than leave you wondering if something horrific happened to me!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Can you say more about what you mean by "your computer not handling the sites?" What type of computer, browser, etc.? Have you posted a "talk to the team" thread to see if they can give you some tech support?

We all want our Harley updates


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## mkmurphy81 (May 8, 2015)

Have you tried running adblock? The script that's messing up your computer may be an ad.

If anyone has problems with scripts or software, it's usually me. My poor old computer is on its last legs. It's been trying to die for well over a year. I can't replace it yet, so it has to keep limping along. Also, I run Linux, not windows or mac. If there's an incompatibility problem, I'll have it.

That said, HF in the new format does fine for me. I had to do "forgot password" to get back in because I never got the email either. I keep HF open in a tab pretty much all the time. I have approximately 231 tabs open at any given time. If there's a bad script anywhere, I'll find it. Scripts on HF don't give me any problems, which is why I suspect an ad.

Also, I love hearing about Harley and Kodak, even though I usually just lurk.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

maybe having so many tabs open at the same time is part of the problem.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Computer glitches are like horse training glitches. One never knows when a glitch is gonna happen. The glitch changes. You fix it only to have a new glitch rear its ugly head. 

One must adapt, reshape, rethink, and try to work through the glitch. Same with horses.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> maybe having so many tabs open at the same time is part of the problem.


I have heaps open, no problem!


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## mkmurphy81 (May 8, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> maybe having so many tabs open at the same time is part of the problem.


Part of the problem? Sure. Unfortunately, it's a very small part of the problem.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

egrogan said:


> Can you say more about what you mean by "your computer not handling the sites?" What type of computer, browser, etc.? Have you posted a "talk to the team" thread to see if they can give you some tech support?
> 
> We all want our Harley updates


I sign on using one of two computers - my tablet or my desktop. Both use Windows, different versions. When I'm in the Full mode, it's only a matter of time before everything freezes up and the site crashes. Sometimes I've typed up a long post or added photos and I lose everything. It's better in the classic mode, but as I said, it probably won't be available much longer. 

And I do have an ad blocker. I don't generally have a lot of tabs open and it doesn't happen with any other sites I go on (FB, etc.). Will pay attention to the exact message I'm getting next time. I can try to switch to full mode now to see if it will happen again.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

> Sometimes I've typed up a long post or added photos and I lose everything.


I had that for a short while, but before the pw change. I started typing replies in MSword then copy/pasting to hf, especially for longer replies or ones I took time to think over.

seems to be ok now


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Starting to crash in Full mode... everything has slowed to a crawl. At the bottom of the page, I keep getting messages like "Waiting for rto.microsoft.com" Could be an ad but I do have my ad blocker activated. The problem seems to be related to some of the ads that is right on the HF page. The page is constantly re-loading.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I get the 'page reloading' mess now and again on my pad. What I have to do is clear my browsing history. After that I don't have the 'reloading' issue.

With the Microsoft error message, makes me think it isn't so much HF, but explorer? Someone more savvy than I can answer that. All I want is for my electronic devices to friggin work.....lolol.....not asking to much!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> I get the 'page reloading' mess now and again on my pad. What I have to do is clear my browsing history. After that I don't have the 'reloading' issue.
> 
> With the Microsoft error message, makes me think it isn't so much HF, but explorer? Someone more savvy than I can answer that. All I want is for my electronic devices to friggin work.....lolol.....not asking to much!


Yes, no kidding! How did technology become such a nightmare! Wasn't it supposed to make our lives better???


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> Yes, no kidding! How did technology become such a nightmare! Wasn't it supposed to make our lives better???


Better, Easier, and with less paper........,bwaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaa


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Do you use internet explorer? Truely IE is a nightmare, even they have plans of ditching it and implementing a better browser (and I just forget the name for now) try chrome or even firefox. they are way better once you get used to them.

Part of why it takes so long to fix anything in coding is because IE is so different and requires separate code in many instances, so its like writing your code in english then having to rewrite it in timbuktu.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

sarahfromsc said:


> Acadianartist said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, no kidding! How did technology become such a nightmare! Wasn't it supposed to make our lives better???
> ...


They didn't tell the 'less paper' part to uni pretty sure we have killed a rainforest with what we have had to print out this semester


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Rainaisabelle said:


> They didn't tell the 'less paper' part to uni pretty sure we have killed a rainforest with what we have had to print out this semester


Work for an engineering company. I am surprised there are any trees LEFT!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Acadianartist said:


> Yes, no kidding! How did technology become such a nightmare! Wasn't it supposed to make our lives better???



I don't think I can think of a single instance where technology made my life SIMPLER. 


more interesting, at times, but simpler? no way.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Do you use internet explorer? Truely IE is a nightmare, even they have plans of ditching it and implementing a better browser (and I just forget the name for now) try chrome or even firefox. they are way better once you get used to them.
> 
> Part of why it takes so long to fix anything in coding is because IE is so different and requires separate code in many instances, so its like writing your code in english then having to rewrite it in timbuktu.


I use Chrome and Firefox.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Getting back on topic... another GREAT ride on Kodak this morning! Nothing complicated, but I took her out on the trail around her property, following a slightly different path which took us along the road and through a very wet area. Not a single spook. There was the slightest of hesitation before entering in the woods which I anticipated by nudging her forward before she could come to a full stop. She isn't 100% relaxed, but is better each time. The cars on the road made her a little nervous, but she didn't spook. The trail goes along the road, but is well separated by dense, but short trees and a ditch so we see the road clearly, but are nowhere near the shoulder. I feel this is a good way to desensitize the horses to traffic since we are safe distance, but close enough to see if the horse will spook. She craned her neck a little at the cars zooming by, but didn't spook or accelerate. 

So she is really coming along well! I think our next ride will be off-property (other than riding in the arena with the coach tomorrow to work on fine-tuning). We won't go too far just yet, but I want to continue to vary the trails so she doesn't get too used to one trail. She doesn't know where our property ends, after all, so it's all the same to her, but I want to go further and further until we can do a couple of hours easily. 

Also, Harley didn't call out to her once. I find it's better if I stall him when I take her out. That way he can't see her riding away (the stalls face the opposite direction of the trails). 

Little things to work on: getting her to focus more and more on me rather than her surroundings and getting rid of the head-shyness. Because she was ridden with a Western bridle before, she's not used to the joined reins. You'd think it doesn't matter, until it gets time to get them over her head. She had a bit of a fit the last time (not today though) so it's something she needs to get used to. She is continuing to let me interact with her more and more - I can now walk right up to her in the pasture and scratch her neck (not her face though). She will stand still for me to put on her halter. 

She is also phenomenal at standing still when tied. She will not move a muscle and can stand patiently forever. I assume this is part of her Western training. It will come in handy when I want to go on a trail ride and tie her to a tree while I paint. My ultimate goal is to be able to do this by the end of the summer. I'll start with just a sketchpad and do little 15 minute sketches at first to see how she does. I'll need to figure out how to mount her without a mounting block and I think I'll buy a rope halter for tying her. 

Here's a couple of pictures of us. In the second one we are heading into the scary forest of horse-eating monsters. I apologize for the poor photo quality. My daughter is not the best photographer, so she took a bunch, but mostly, all you see is the edge of the deck.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Rope halters aren't really for tying.

Great to hear you two are working it out!!

So will this be the first lesson with the coach?

Love the pics too though I laughed at the "one good pic" "wait where is she going" "that's it?" lol.

I also love how you have an Arab so you got one of those QHs that looks like an Arab  She is too cute!


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

You are making great progress with Kodak, getting out for trail rides is the best way to get to know your horse.
I have often put a halter on my mare and gone out, tied her up to work on the trails and do some clean up on the branches, I can now take my loppers with me and trim the higher branches while on her back and she's good with that, gets tired of having to stop and stand after a bit but improving all the time. She's had 10 foot long, approx. 1" in diameter branches drop on her neck while I'm trimming and she stands while I pick them up and toss them aside.
Glad you got such a nice mare. And I'm glad that you are taking them out solo as that is very good for both horses, the one ridden and the one left behind.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yogiwick said:


> Rope halters aren't really for tying.
> 
> Great to hear you two are working it out!!
> 
> ...


Hmmmm... so I guess I need one of those halter/bridle combos then. I hate leaving on a bulky halter under her bridle. 

And yes, tomorrow will be the first lesson with the coach. 

I really do love Arabs  And I do like QHs that are more petite as opposed to the big stocky ones with their noses to the ground.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Woodhaven said:


> You are making great progress with Kodak, getting out for trail rides is the best way to get to know your horse.
> I have often put a halter on my mare and gone out, tied her up to work on the trails and do some clean up on the branches, I can now take my loppers with me and trim the higher branches while on her back and she's good with that, gets tired of having to stop and stand after a bit but improving all the time. She's had 10 foot long, approx. 1" in diameter branches drop on her neck while I'm trimming and she stands while I pick them up and toss them aside.
> Glad you got such a nice mare. And I'm glad that you are taking them out solo as that is very good for both horses, the one ridden and the one left behind.


Yes, was thinking I need to do that on our next trail ride around the property! Too many branches hanging low and I keep having to push them out of the way. I can only trim them so high when I'm not on horseback! I do hope to be able to do it from her back.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Rope halters are fine for tying. Some people say you shouldn't because a rope halter will not break if a horse pulls back. 

But plenty of people, myself included use a rope halter to tie. Clinton Anderson and many other famed trainers tie in ropes all the time. If your horse ties solid, a rope is fine.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If I'm tying my horse somewhere that isn't a safe enclosed area I prefer that it can't break free if it panics or decides to pull back and go AWOL. Presumable you aren't going to wander off and leave the horse unattended so you always carry a good knife in case your safety release knot fails you or use you a lead rope on a regular halter that's got quick release snaps on it


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

jaydee said:


> If I'm tying my horse somewhere that isn't a safe enclosed area I prefer that it can't break free if it panics or decides to pull back and go AWOL. Presumable you aren't going to wander off and leave the horse unattended so you always carry a good knife in case your safety release knot fails you or use you a lead rope on a regular halter that's got quick release snaps on it


Yes, I will stay close to her. Good tip about bringing a knife.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

I'm actually ordering a horse collar for Kenzie to use trail riding instead of a clunky halter and for IDing if we get separated, so I'll let you know how that works. Might be an option.


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## Bondre (Jun 14, 2013)

That's a huge bonus for you that she's so good about standing still. Imagine trying to paint or sketch with a fidgety horse nearby. 

A biothane bridle with clips to remove the bit would be perfect for you. Less fuss than taking the whole bridle off when you arrive and having to put it back on for the ride back. And if you decide on this, then you start on the whole business of colour combinations with your tack.... 

I love the photo of you guys disappearing into the forest. At least your daughter caught Kodak's butt lol.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes, I've looked at those biothane bridles. That might just be the answer. But I've read that the bits can be hard to put in and that it's best to get the ones with a separate headstall so the whole things comes off and the halter stays on. I rode with an endurance rider who had one and really liked it. Guess it's time to get online and order some new tack!!!


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## Folly (Jan 27, 2015)

I had a thread a while back asking about halters for under bridles... I ride Western not English though. After some good suggestions, I ended up with this one. It is really soft and light weight, parachute cord. It's much thinner and lighter than the ones I find at the tack store (and doesn't have those extra training knots of course). I ordered one with a hand braided noseband because I thought it would look nice (and it does) and the slight added stiffness of it makes it easier to halter her (but without the braiding, it would be even lighter - I might get another plain one to use some times). I tie in it no problem if I'm in the area (wouldn't leave it for long times... I just use this one when I'm riding).


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Folly said:


> I had a thread a while back asking about halters for under bridles... I ride Western not English though. After some good suggestions, I ended up with this one. It is really soft and light weight, parachute cord. It's much thinner and lighter than the ones I find at the tack store (and doesn't have those extra training knots of course). I ordered one with a hand braided noseband because I thought it would look nice (and it does) and the slight added stiffness of it makes it easier to halter her (but without the braiding, it would be even lighter - I might get another plain one to use some times). I tie in it no problem if I'm in the area (wouldn't leave it for long times... I just use this one when I'm riding).


Very nice. Can I ask where you found this one?


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## Folly (Jan 27, 2015)

Here's the thread http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/best-halter-under-bridle-705762/page3/

Forum users @Drifting and @Avna both recommended this. I ordered it directly from an individual so I'll PM the info to you, as they did for me. I'm sure they're available to order online other places w/o the hand braiding (I think she buys them pre made and then adds the braiding).


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I would just go with a plain halter personally.

I wouldn't tie because of the pressure points, not because of the unbreakableness (word?). It's like tying with a stud chain which is a huge no.

I also like the combo's though haven't used any personally.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Agree with Yogi. I have never used a rope halter to tie a horse.

If a horse isn't well-schooled to a rope halter and pulls back hard enough, the poll pressure can drop them right to the ground.

I've done my share of rough camping over-nighters with the horse tied to the trailer. I have always carried an extra double stitched nylon halter, lead rope and extra bridle & reins.

I've only needed the extra lead rope a couple times. I can't remember any of my horses breaking a halter. 

In his youth my Arab/Saddlebred was the worst of any of my horses for pulling back. He quit that stuff after a few 25 mile rides in the mountains.

I've only ever had one horse I couldn't trust enough to take the halter off and bridle him with the halter hanging around his neck. He's a Tennessee Walker named Rusty and is still in my pasture, lol.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I think I'm going to buy this combo. The headstall comes off completely and the halter stays on to tie. I rode with an endurance rider whose horse was wearing one and they seem to work well:

Add-On Bridle with Matching Halter | American Trail Gear, Inc


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

And on a different note, maybe I should have called this thread "The Kodak roller coaster".

We had a lesson with the coach tonight. Kodak spooked twice and I fell right off like an idiot. I haven't fall off a horse since I was five, but she caught me totally off guard both times. My fault - I was talking to the coach with my head turned away. I might have stopped her sooner if I had been more focused. I'm ok, but will have a pretty good hip bruise. Glad I was wearing my helmet. 

The first time was when the coach decided to set up a jump for my daughter and got a jump standard and started to walk across the paddock. The second time a plastic bag blew through the pasture near the paddock. It was a very, very windy day. 

So what was different? Well, we did some trotting drills which got her a little revved up. Also, having the coach present makes me more aware of my riding which translates into a higher level of nervousness for me, which probably got transmitted to Kodak. On trail rides, I try very, very hard to stay calm for her and she relaxes, which helps me relax and so on, and so on. 

We did work a bit on the steering issue at the trot and she was getting better. The coach had me sponging her mouth so she would pay attention to me and I was able to get her going pretty well. Until she spooked twice. 

So... tomorrow's another day. The coach agrees with me that it's not part of her temperament to be nervous. This is fear. Hopefully with time she will become more secure in her new environment. The coach seemed to think she would come around and told me she had horses do worse than what Kodak did today before they finally settled down. The coach did get on her and ride her as well.


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## Folly (Jan 27, 2015)

Well that stinks :-(
So sorry - hope that bruise heals quickly!


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Ilike the combo version that they sell at Two Horse Tack. I had a custom one made there for a therapy horse, and the quality of the biothane is great-the one in the picture looks a little less substantial than the Two Horse Tack material-though of course it's hard to tell from an online picture!

http://www.twohorsetack.com/p-27-qu...de-from-beta-biothane-any-2-color-combo.aspx


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Folly - it's almost a relief to get it out of the way. I've never fallen off a horse. NEVER! Harley is a bundle of nerves on the trail and is jiggy all the time, but never just explodes and takes off. 

I guess only time will tell whether Kodak is going to make a good horse or whether we'll need to find a safer horse. My daughter (who, incidentally, got a great kick out of the fact that I fell twice and couldn't wait to go in the house and tell my husband) is certainly not too keen on getting on Kodak now. The whole point of getting her was to have a safe, quiet horse for my daughter to ride on trails. And it's true - what if a plastic bag blows across our path on a trail ride? Will she react the same? She did seem extra jumpy today, which is probably because of the wind and the fact that she's still getting used to her new surroundings. I feel it's too soon to give up on her so we will give her a bit more time and I will ride her as much as possible and expose her to different things. 

When she spooked, she ran right over to Harley. My daughter was on him and just stopped and waited. To his credit, Harley stayed stock still for the whole thing. Funny how Kodak is a nervous wreck in the paddock, but relaxed on the trail whereas Harley is the opposite.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

egrogan said:


> Ilike the combo version that they sell at Two Horse Tack. I had a custom one made there for a therapy horse, and the quality of the biothane is great-the one in the picture looks a little less substantial than the Two Horse Tack material-though of course it's hard to tell from an online picture!
> 
> Quick Change HALTER BRIDLE with Snap On Browband made from BETA BIOTHANE (ANY 2 COLOR COMBO)


Thanks egrogan! I haven't put in my order yet, so will have a look at this one as well!


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Prairie said:


> I suggest waiting till you coach is there to help you figure out what the issue is. Enjoy some groundwork with the new horse, giving her a good grooming, hand grazing and just spend time with her without thinking about riding.


^^ this. Eyes on the ground are always good.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

palogal said:


> ^^ this. Eyes on the ground are always good.


Did you miss the post about how we had our first lesson with the coach today and she spooked hard twice and I came off both times? Eyes on the ground didn't help much, in fact, she was worse than ever today


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

You are doing fine. You're just going through an adjustment period. Kodak will learn to be the horse you want, and even the best fall off at times. The only perfectly predictable horse is one of those 'Trigger' horses that department stores have at their doors for the kids.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Acadianartist said:


> Did you miss the post about how we had our first lesson with the coach today and she spooked hard twice and I came off both times? Eyes on the ground didn't help much, in fact, she was worse than ever today


Yes, I did  Yikes. What was she spooking at? 
Is it possible she was worked really hard before you rode her before you bought her? Or sedated? Or buted to mask a back pain issue?


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

palogal said:


> Yes, I did  Yikes. What was she spooking at?
> Is it possible she was worked really hard before you rode her before you bought her? Or sedated? Or buted to mask a back pain issue?


As I explained in my post, first she spooked at the coach carrying a jump standard and then at a plastic bag blowing in the wind. I don't think she was drugged or tired out when we tried her. We rode her twice. I think the previous owners scared her into submission. My coach agrees. She is fearful.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> You are doing fine. You're just going through an adjustment period. Kodak will learn to be the horse you want, and even the best fall off at times. The only perfectly predictable horse is one of those 'Trigger' horses that department stores have at their doors for the kids.


I sure hope you're right.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Kodak being a mare, it might be a good ide to keep track of her monthly cycle and her corresponding behavior. Sometimes it's related to "off" behavior, sometimes it isn't.

Keeping a log for a few months will at least give you an idea as to what to expect ---- or not expect

I once had an insurance agent who sold his daughter's mare because she was so dangerous during her cycle. A winning horse inWP and gentle as a kitten for three weeks ---- 1200 lbs of PMS for the other week and it wasn't worth the risk.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

walkinthewalk said:


> Kodak being a mare, it might be a good ide to keep track of her monthly cycle and her corresponding behavior. Sometimes it's related to "off" behavior, sometimes it isn't.
> 
> Keeping a log for a few months will at least give you an idea as to what to expect ---- or not expect
> 
> I once had an insurance agent who sold his daughter's mare because she was so dangerous during her cycle. A winning horse inWP and gentle as a kitten for three weeks ---- 1200 lbs of PMS for the other week and it wasn't worth the risk.


You know, that occurred to me. I saw her squit today and noticed she was shoving her butt right into Harley's chest this morning and sort of rubbing it. Of course he was clueless as to what to do about it, lol. I wondered if she might be in heat.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Each horse is different.

I think you stated it well when you said it was the first ride with the coach and you were nervous. Same thing happens to me. I will school my Arab and he is PERFECT. I have a lesson and I try to hard and I fail, therefore my gelding fails. We just suck. Or I should say I suck. When I suck at riding my gelding follows my lead.

As for spooking....my Arab can handle platic bags in the trail, balloons stuck in bushes in the trail, beach balls floating in the creeks, and a floatilla of kayaks and conoes on the river. He sees purple flowers with the sun hitting them and he has a meltdown. Flowers!

Who knew purple wild Violet's could eat horses?

But, all that is what makes riding interesting. Who knows what a horse will deem worthy of a good spin, teleport spook?

Your ride a lot and you ride different horses, well you will fall off at some point. It is part and parcel of the whole horse riding gig.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

walkinthewalk said:


> Kodak being a mare, it might be a good ide to keep track of her monthly cycle and her corresponding behavior. Sometimes it's related to "off" behavior, sometimes it isn't.
> 
> Keeping a log for a few months will at least give you an idea as to what to expect ---- or not expect
> 
> I once had an insurance agent who sold his daughter's mare because she was so dangerous during her cycle. A winning horse inWP and gentle as a kitten for three weeks ---- 1200 lbs of PMS for the other week and it wasn't worth the risk.


Sounded like me before menopauses....lolol....and drop a zero on the weight!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Acadianartist said:


> I think I'm going to buy this combo. The headstall comes off completely and the halter stays on to tie. I rode with an endurance rider whose horse was wearing one and they seem to work well:
> 
> Add-On Bridle with Matching Halter | American Trail Gear, Inc


I think I need one of those for myself!!


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Acadianartist said:


> As I explained in my post, first she spooked at the coach carrying a jump standard and then at a plastic bag blowing in the wind. I don't think she was drugged or tired out when we tried her. We rode her twice. I think the previous owners scared her into submission. My coach agrees. She is fearful.


I thought all horses are terrified of plastic bags lol


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

So here's a typical ride with my Starhorse. I go to get her out of the pasture and she does one run around before she allows me to catch her. I continue to follow her so she decides to stop. Now I have her so we walk up to the barn and she leads like a charm. I have to make sure she's tied well because even though she hasn't pulled back in weeks something might come along to scare her and she will pull back. If she gets loose it will be back to square one with the pulling back thing as she now knows it's a possibility to get away. Never a problem to retrieve her if she does get away though. Now, we're all saddled up (no issues) and we take off. Star is very forward but listens and waits for cues and she's actually a pleasure to ride. So, we're going along and a little bird makes a noise in a bush and she jumps sideways which makes all of the other horses jump as well because their must be a monster lurking in there. Star will continue to look for boogers unless you spin her in a circle a couple of times to take her mind off of it. If you give her something else to do she will forget about it. This horse can be a pain sometimes but other than her flightiness and the occasional jump sideways she's actually a good horse. That's her personality and just the way she ticks. She is one of those horses that are on high alert most of the time. It doesn't make her a bad horse and she will do what you ask. She doesn't buck, kick, bite, rear or anything else. She just has great self preservation instincts and thinks it's her job to keep everyone around her alive. Is she a beginners horse? Nope. She would scare a beginner and it would be an endless cycle. To be fair to her, I would have to say that if I rode her more than twice a month, she would probably get better which is what I'm setting my mind to right now. 

The reason that I'm telling this story is to point out that if you came to test ride her a couple of times, she may do some of the things she occasionally does or she may not. The riding would probably be fine. If you bought her and brought her home, she would be a nervous wreck for a month or so until she settled down and decided you were one she could trust. 

I really don't think a horse can be scared into submission. The more that you would scare them the worse their behavior would get in my opinion. Your mare is either really truly afraid or she's playing games to see what she can get away with. That's where an experienced observer can usually tell the difference. Either way, the issues can be corrected. It's just a matter of how you go about it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks LoriF... and everyone else. Going to start a thread on desensitizing Kodak.


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