# New Buckskin Stallion :)



## eaferg

I'm not trying to offend you, but I think you should geld him.

IMO, horses should not be bred unless they have OUTSTANDING confo or show record.

And, he'd be an adorable gelding!


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## AlternativeEquineTraining

im not studding him out hes for me.. I want to breed my mare ( for myself ) and i think hes beautiful. Hes muddy and has winter fur in theses photos


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## paintluver

I love his trot! He is very pretty.


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## eaferg

> im not studding him out hes for me.. I want to breed my mare ( for myself ) and i think hes beautiful. Hes muddy and has winter fur in theses photos


Ok? But are you ready to handle the responsibility of a foal? Or of the stallion? Because until he's gelded you will always have to keep him seperate from the mare in case of unwanted babies.

I'm just saying that if you really want a foal, buy one from an auction instead of risking that the foal you create is just another slaughter horse.


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## Cheshire

I'm not fond of his front legs, and he seems to have a rather short and skinny neck, but otherwise he's cute. Are you planning to show him at all?


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## RoCru

Holy crap, he's gorgeous. I LOVE buckskins!


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## churumbeque

Cheshire said:


> I'm not fond of his front legs, and he seems to have a rather short and skinny neck, but otherwise he's cute. Are you planning to show him at all?


It was hard to tell from the photo's but his front and hind legs looked poor.
He should not be a stallion. Not the conformation to be bred.


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## heyycutter

i also see a very short thin neck, hes cute, but not stallion worthy. i dont think he should breed


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## Peetz

Love his color, bet he is very hansome when he sheds out. Two year olds still have a lot of growing to do, could grow into the flaws other posters have pointed out, hard to tell from a few stap shots. Don't listen to the negative comments about not breeding unless your horse is a blue ribbon winner in every show, there is way more to horses than shows and ribbons. I would never get a baby in an auction, never know what your getting, at least you KNOW what your getting when you breed two horses that you have. 
It helps to "hide" those posters who all they are concered about is killing off the pleasure horse industry and keeping only the show horses! 
Plus, when you purcharse a horse at auction that would have otherwise gone to slaughter you just encourage the " stick a stud in with his mares" breeder who don't care what comes out, afterall he can just "sell to some sucker at an action, right!"


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## Spyder

Peetz said:


> at least you KNOW what your getting when you breed two horses that you have.


Actually a more incorrect comment has not been said.

While you may get an idea of what you SHOULD get it is more of a ? than if you see a foal already born. Unless you breed two horse that compliment each other in conformation, temperment, color, size and show record there will always be a random selection that can be produced that is not expected. This colt is unproven in what it produces and where its strengths are, so breeding to a stallion with no produce on the ground is a risky choice.


Even if all what I said above is fulfilled there could still be a "where did that come from" foal.


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## thunderhooves

Holy cr** Peetz, you annoy the HECK outa me. Just beause the stud is "pwetty" doesn't mean it should be bred. Breed to a nice stud, even if it doesn't have a show record, as long as its temperment and conformation are nice. On every thread about mares/studs, you say "don't listen to those people who say he/she shouldn't breed". Now I will go around to EVERY thread you post that on and say "Don't listen to Peetz, he/she always says that, no matter the stud. 
I won't do that,though, if you accept one thing: 
That now every horse that still has its "parts" should be bred for a kwoot baybee, that will grow up to be put in auction or bred again for a kwoot baybee. Good confo horses that are proven and AT LEAST broke and again......proven in the disipline it does, even if its now a show horse(ie. showing it can barrel race or move cattle well).


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## wild_spot

> It helps to "hide" those posters who all they are concered about is killing off the pleasure horse industry and keeping only the show horses!


You clearly don't know much about breeding and showing.

Even when breeding the best to the best there are those who aren't quite what were wanted, and/or don't have the desire or ability to show. These horses will become the pleasure horses, and they will be of higher quality than what is being produced now. By lifting breeding standards we would lift the quality of all horses - Pleasure horses *and* show horses. There is no reason that your pleasure horse can't be well-conformed, have a good teperament, and registered and have good bloodlines. If we lift the game in regards to breeding then that is what pleasure horses will be.


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## toosmoothforschool

I agree you should breed him.


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## PaintsPwn

OH MY GOSH, where did all of these recent "GO ON A BREED 'IM" people come from?!?!?! -face palm- It's like a mass of BYB's have joined!

Why wouldn't you just get a breeding from a nicer, better looking stallion? You could have for what it's going to cost to feed and keep that shoulda-beena gelding.


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## alexischristina

I honestly have NO experience in breeding, but it's something I'm interested in looking into and helping out with when I get older and... I wouldn't consider breeding him. He just looks... awkward? He's cute, sure, but he's nothing 'spectacular' no 'wow' factor (and I really don't like his face...)


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## heyycutter

with the thousands and thousands of horses that get sluaghted each year because theres no homes for them, youd think people would think twice about breeding less than perfect horses. horses live for up to 40 years, and i know you cant garentee you will still have that horse by that time. who knows, maybe your "cute" baby will be sent off to mexico and killed in the next decade or two.
You should geld this stallion, and keep him and your mare as your mounts, or buy a foal.
breeding horses to "experience life" or have "a cute baby" is irresponsible and should be avoided.


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## toosmoothforschool

toosmoothforschool said:


> I agree you should breed him.


whoops i meant shouldnt breed him.


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## Jillyann

I dont like his legs/hoofs and he has a terrible looking neck. NOT stud quality what so ever. I do not understand why people breed there horses just because the stud is 'pretty' and they want a 'pretty' foal. 

*bangs head on desk* UGH!


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## thunderhooves

*joins head banging and agrees with Jillyan and PaintsPwn*


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## DakotaLuv

Peetz said:


> Love his color, bet he is very hansome when he sheds out. Two year olds still have a lot of growing to do, could grow into the flaws other posters have pointed out, hard to tell from a few stap shots. Don't listen to the negative comments about not breeding unless your horse is a blue ribbon winner in every show, there is way more to horses than shows and ribbons. I would never get a baby in an auction, never know what your getting, at least you KNOW what your getting when you breed two horses that you have.
> It helps to "hide" those posters who all they are concered about is killing off the pleasure horse industry and keeping only the show horses!
> Plus, when you purcharse a horse at auction that would have otherwise gone to slaughter you just encourage the " stick a stud in with his mares" breeder who don't care what comes out, afterall he can just "sell to some sucker at an action, right!"


Well said! I agree 100%!


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## kassierae

*headdesk* I bet if he was sorrel or bay he wouldn't even be looked at as a stud prospect.


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## thunderhooves

*bangs head harder* PLEASE! Whats with all the 10 year olds giving advice to breed? I bet if you asked any of them what a sloping pastern /is/does/was without looking it up right away, they wouldn't get it. keep that in mind before taking advise from them *smiles then bangs head*


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## kitten_Val

He has short thin neck and pretty funny looking legs (can't really say what's wrong, but just the way he stands and move). He's very cute and probably will make a nice pleasure riding horse, but personally I'd geld him - it'll help with temperament a lot. Studs are not easy to deal with unless you have plenty of experience, and well-mannered stud comes from training, not from nowhere. And if you really want a baby you better go with one of the proved studs. 

BTW, I don't see anything wrong if stud doesn't have a show record, but broke, has great confo and temperament and used for breeding with complimenting the mare in mind. I believe Fehr's qh stud is a good example of it.


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## DakotaLuv

To be honest I'm not a big fan of buckskins, but I really like this guy. When he fills out he should look really nice. I LOVE a good looking bay or sorrel. I'm not a big color nut.


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## PaintsPwn

Apparently you're not a confo nut either, or a nut for a good stallion.


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## kitten_Val

kassierae said:


> *headdesk* I bet if he was sorrel or bay he wouldn't even be looked at as a stud prospect.


I bet not. The funniest thing is there is not very high % even that he'll throw the buckskin baby (depending on mare of course). :? My qh was "made" from buckskin and I'm sure the owners were hoping to get a color on her. She ended up very deep sorrel color. Not common, but not buckskin either. However the stud has nice lines (Driftwood) as well as mare (Doc Bar), so color would be just a compliment on top. Which didn't happen.


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## thunderhooves

PaintsPwn said:


> Apparently you're not a confo nut either, or a nut for a good stallion.


nahahaha


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## Crimsonhorse01

Id wait and see what he looks like grown up and filled in. Cant reverse a castration.


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## thunderhooves

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Id wait and see what he looks like grown up and filled in. Cant reverse a castration.


Can't reverse a badly conformed horse bred out of badly conformed horses,either.


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## DakotaLuv

PaintsPwn said:


> Apparently you're not a confo nut either, or a nut for a good stallion.


Haha. Oh gosh...you are so right!...like usual. :roll:


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## thunderhooves

DakotaLuv said:


> Haha. Oh gosh...you are so right!...like usual. :roll:


I'm glad you see the truth! I congratulate you for that


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## Crimsonhorse01

Look its her horse. If she wants to breed or not is her right. Im tried of seeing being rude and obnoxious about breeding. If she wants a foal out of her mare and her stud who are you to say no? What you look for in a horse can be completely different than someone else.


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## AppyLover615

I don't understand why automatically when someone asks, 'please critque my stallion' everyone jumps on top of them in a dog pile saying they should geld him and act like they have no sense. The OP in post #1 didn't say anything about breeding, then when the OP DOES say she is looking to breed the horse the dog pile just gets bigger and bigger. The OP never said anything about 'please make me feel like I have no brain just cus I am showing my stallion on here and thinking of breeding him.' Come on guys! the bashing of people on here looking to breed their horses is getting pretty darn old already! All the OP wanted originally was a critique on her young stud, nothing else. Plus she also said they weren't the best pics, how do you know 100% how the stud's confo. is other than making a general critique from what is given. What if, hypothetically, the OP never was GOING to breed the stud, but the title still was 'please critique my stallion'? I bet 1/2 the people who replied would make an assumption that the OP was going to breed and they are "stupid" for thinking about it (not saying anyone directly said the OP was, but it sounds implied by the responses.) 

I don't personally have a grudge against anyone on here BTW, but it is frustrating to see this all the time. I personally think it is more effective to explain your thoughts in a way that won't get the person asking for something so defensive that they won't listen to you anyways. 

~AL615

ps- sorry to be off topic. I wanted to say I think 2 yrs is too young IMO to breed. they are still growing and you can see how they might turn out better if you wait to breed.


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## Jillyann

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Look its her horse. If she wants to breed or not is her right. Im tried of seeing being rude and obnoxious about breeding. If she wants a foal out of her mare and her stud who are you to say no? What you look for in a horse can be completely different than someone else.


We arent saying NO NO NO! She asked for a critique, and we gave her one. We ALL just happen to suggest to her that breeding this stallion is NOT a good choice. And we all told her the reasoning.:lol:


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## kitten_Val

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Look its her horse. If she wants to breed or not is her right. Im tried of seeing being rude and obnoxious about breeding. If she wants a foal out of her mare and her stud who are you to say no? What you look for in a horse can be completely different than someone else.


That's a Critique section. If OP wants to get "cool", "cute" and "sweet" only - post in Pictures section.


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## thunderhooves

We are only saying that because no one has posted a pic asking for critique of a nicely conformed stallion. If you find one on here, there will be GOOD confo critique posts, and maybe a few "adopt" posts from those "adopt always" people, but other than that, most would say just "go ahead, they're a nice cross".


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## wild_spot

It's funny - I posted a thread on here about a breeding I would like to do, but I can't because I can't afford the mare. All I got was a few comments saying they love the mare and the stud, and that they would be a good cross AND that the foal should be a lovely little horse.

I guess the fact that I picked well conformed, well bred horses with good temperament and colour on top of that, AND two horses that I think would compliment each other, was enough to convince people not to jump on the anti-breeding bandwagon.

Funny, hey.


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## Cheshire

People jump down one another's throats on the breeding/crit board because they care. 

I'm not being sarcastic it's the 100% truth. OP is getting a crit of the stally. And after mentioning that s/he wanted to breed this 2 yo to her own mare, well of course some people are going to speak up. It's just the name of the game around here. 

I haven't seen a post yet that has come across as rude to the OP, we're all just giving our critiques. This board is not for mindless praise, it's to get an objective outsider's opinion of your animal. Opinion! All because we _advise _OP to geld, doesn't mean OP will or won't. They'll do what they please.

She mentioned she wants to breed -- fine, we'll give the colt a critique from that standpoint, as a prospective breeding stallion. 

By the by, whether you're breeding for pleasure or performance, it's generally a good idea to have two parents with nice confo _at the very least_, so the offspring won't break down under whatever type of work you plan for it and can have a nice, long, _sound_ life, and a greater sell factor. For _any_ horse. It's simply called thinking ahead.

OP, your guy is very cute and will probably look even nicer when he's mature, but he has some qualities that I *personally* would not want to run the risk of passing to a foal.


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## Spyder

heyycutter said:


> with the thousands and thousands of horses that get sluaghted each year because theres no homes for them, youd think people would think twice about breeding less than perfect horses. .


But think of all those Europeans that will go without their horse steak if we cut back on the breeding.:shock:


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## thunderhooves

Spyder said:


> But think of all those Europeans that will go without their horse steak if we cut back on the breeding.:shock:


Spyder, you are one of the most respected people on this forum. And though I don't completely agree with what you said in a different sense, it made me laugh. Great sarcasm!


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## DustyDiamond

Aww what a cutie pie! He is prbably the lightest buckskin i have ever seen but he's still pretty. I bet he's gonna be really pretty once he loses all his fur coat in the summer.


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## eaferg

I skimmed over alot of the replies... just saying.

"A good color isn't always a good horse. However, a good horse is never a bad color."
I just don't think anyone should be breeding for color in the horse industry. Sure, you may be a good owner/own all the horses for life. However, I don't think anyone should bring a horse into the world that even has a chance for a bad future. I personally would want the best future for my foal. What if something comes up and you have to sell the foal? You have to think: would the likelyhood of me selling the horse be good?

There are SO many mediocre horses in the world, some being slaughtered as you read this. Ask yourself: What makes my horses better than the other thousands that are unwanted? Color? Maybe. But TBO I don't think color matters when it comes down to you being in the saddle.

Just something to think about.


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## haviris

Well here are my thoughts, he'd make a cute riding gelding! 

I'm not a big fan of his color, maybe once he sheds out, but we'll see. Actually the biggest thing that jumps out at me is the fact he's a Paint! In my opinion a stallion quality Paint should have color (and I'm not talking about buckskin color). 

He is cute and if gelded I wouldn't kick him out of my barn!


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## kitten_Val

wild_spot said:


> It's funny - I posted a thread on here about a breeding I would like to do, but I can't because I can't afford the mare. All I got was a few comments saying they love the mare and the stud, and that they would be a good cross AND that the foal should be a lovely little horse.
> 
> I guess the fact that I picked well conformed, well bred horses with good temperament and colour on top of that, AND two horses that I think would compliment each other, was enough to convince people not to jump on the anti-breeding bandwagon.
> 
> Funny, hey.


I remember this thread. While I don't think I posted there, those horses were very nice looking (with nice breeding) (the only thing I didn't like about them was color - ha-ha-ha!). So basically there was pretty much nothing to critique, therefore very few responses.


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## kitten_Val

Spyder said:


> But think of all those Europeans that will go without their horse steak if we cut back on the breeding.:shock:


Spyder, I consider it as offense towards Asian people. :lol: They like our horses too! And people from Cuba.


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## Spyder

kitten_Val said:


> Spyder, I consider it as offense towards Asian people. :lol: They like our horses too! And people from Cuba.


 
Oh shoot I missed them, I thought they liked dog better.:?


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## heyycutter

spyder: your right! byb should be encouraged, so everybody in france, japan, cuba, etc gets their nice piece of horsey steak for dinner. imagine how sad theyd all be if we only bred perfect horses


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## QHDragon

Well I fifth, sixth, or whatever number we are on everybody that is saying he would make a very very cute GELDING. There are a lot of nice buckskin studs out there that have better conformation and proven show records, and if you are thinking that you can't afford the stud fees then you shouldn't be breeding. Babies are expensive! 

And YES show records and ribbons mean A LOT. Who is to say in a few years something might happen to you and you have to sell your horses, people are more likely to buy a well bred horse out of proven lines than a back yard mutt, its just how it works.


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## pepperduck

I have a question for the original poster... why do you want to breed him and your other horse? I am not trying to mean, I honestly want to know. Are you trying to get a horse for a specific discipline? Are you hoping to get a buckskin? Do you like his conformation, and what do you like about it? Are you breeding for temperment?

I think if you answer some of these questions it would help to give us an idea of what you are hoping to accomplish with this horse.


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## SilverSpur

critique wise, i agree with the others, he would made a very nice riding gelding. 

i dont know if its the winter coat, but he does seem to have tiny little feet.


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## kelley horsemad

- short neck
- not a cute mover despite being at liberty
- coarse head

He certainly may grow into a more handsome fellow, but not breeding quality IMO.


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## AlabamaHorseMom

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> Look its her horse. If she wants to breed or not is her right. Im tried of seeing being rude and obnoxious about breeding. If she wants a foal out of her mare and her stud who are you to say no? What you look for in a horse can be completely different than someone else.


 
Thank You. Agree 100% 
I feel like sometimes we just BEAT The tar outta people.

I dont PERSONALLY like the little guy, and I'd never breed him with any mares IIII owned, but hey if he is what the OP is LOOKING for, then by all means.

Whether you all act like children and constantly beat the OP down and tell her how awful she for breeding this horse, or not, if she wants to breed them, chances are shes GOING TO!

Id like to see more honest opinions, and a lot of you gave some. Give the OP reasons you dont like the horse, and then move on. 
Stop beating everyone with a stick.

If the baby is for her own use, and she is confident that this IS what she wants, 100% sure she wants to breed this little stud and her personal mare, then you know what, have at it hunny.


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## kassierae

Yes but if they both have less than stellar conformation(the stallion DOES), the foal will have even worse conformation and she will have a very hard time keeping it sound. The only thing that stallion has going for him is his color.


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## CrazyChester

I think if she is just breeding him for herself as she stated, then it is fine.  He is very cute though and can't wait to see him once he has matured.


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## thunderhooves

CHESTER,NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! You went to the dark side! *cries and bangs head*
your still my chat buddy,though


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## AlternativeEquineTraining

Peetz said:


> Love his color, bet he is very hansome when he sheds out. Two year olds still have a lot of growing to do, could grow into the flaws other posters have pointed out, hard to tell from a few stap shots. Don't listen to the negative comments about not breeding unless your horse is a blue ribbon winner in every show, there is way more to horses than shows and ribbons. I would never get a baby in an auction, never know what your getting, at least you KNOW what your getting when you breed two horses that you have.
> It helps to "hide" those posters who all they are concered about is killing off the pleasure horse industry and keeping only the show horses!
> Plus, when you purcharse a horse at auction that would have otherwise gone to slaughter you just encourage the " stick a stud in with his mares" breeder who don't care what comes out, afterall he can just "sell to some sucker at an action, right!"


 

thank you!


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## PaintsPwn

> at least you KNOW what your getting when you breed two horses that you have.


Uhm, no. You don't.


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## AlternativeEquineTraining

okay so ive had it.. Thank you to all that are for me breeding him to my mare. FIRST off the baby is for ME and only ME! I dont care what it comes out as, as the baby is for ME! Second.... so your telling me that if a horse is not completely perfect and doesnt have a good background ( which no one offered to even ask about his... btw his bloodlines are very nice... ) ( poco bueno, three bar, sugar bar, impressive, doc bar.. there are more ) they should not be used... my mare is very well bred zips chocolate chip and she has her flaws and guess what.. i love her to death.. the baby is for me.. just for me.. so i could care less if it has a thin neck or doesnt have perfect legs. I dont show... never will I as i think its corrupted todays horse .. just an opinion though... I do pleasure.... Thank you.. remind me to NOT use this horse forum ever again for the fact that NO one can post anything thats less than perfect without being bashed. again thank you to all who support me in breeding MY mare.. to MY stud.. for MY baby


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## twh

Cute, but I personally would wait until he is full grown and filled out before breeding. Then you can evaluate him and have a better idea of what the foal might be like.

Do not geld unless you are 100% sure you'll never want to breed him: castrations are completely irreversible.


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## PaintsPwn

> poco bueno, three bar, sugar bar, impressive, doc bar.. there are more


Oi Vey! these are FOUNDATION sires! Almost every stock horse has them!!!




> so i could care less if it has a thin neck or doesnt have perfect legs


Have fun with your crippled horses then!


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## mom2pride

I'm going to remain subjective here, because I am on the selective breeding band wagon.

Here's what I see in your boy...
-Heavy unappealing head
-Upright shoulder...note how 'closed' his front end movement is even at freedom? That makes for a short choppy stride, and a rough ride
-Toes out in the front 
-toes in at the rear, and is cowhocked
-short thick neck
-has fairly small feet; and given he is already well muscled, he's going to be a heavy horse...that's a lot of poundage per square inch on small feet. This often leads to navicular, or other unsoundness issues. 

What I like
-he has a lovely expression, and a very kind eye
-nice muscling 
-nice hip
-short back

with proper conformation pictures, I know I could give a better critique; side shots, and a rear shot would be helpful.


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## Crimsonhorse01

PaintsPwn said:


> Oi Vey! these are FOUNDATION sires! Almost every stock horse has them!!!
> 
> Have fun with your crippled horses then!


Ok what is wrong with a nice foundation horse. Id rather prefer them.
The last bit just ticks me off. Ok I can see needing certain things for disciplines but she wants a baby of her own for pleasure riding. As far as im concerned there is nothing that would show that a horse from this stallion would be a cripple.


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## PaintsPwn

Did I ever say anything was wrong with foundation horses?

-re reads own post- Oh that's right.. I didn't!

Just because a horse has those lines does not make them have 'nice lines'. These horses were alive decades ago and set as a foundation for BETTER HORSES, you know - breeders that strived to create something better for work or play. Every APHA, AQHA and stock type ApHC horse is connected to at least ONE of them. Why? Because they were great, amazing horses who were at their time, top of the line stallion quality. 

Would they be now? Most of them wouldn't be. But without them, we wouldn't have beautiful, well conformed stallions today. So at least thank God the horsemen before us had a goal - and they had to breed sound stock because if not, they were left with another mouth to feed. Ah the days when horses earned their keep to their feed and their testicles!


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## kassierae

PaintsPwn, I think I love you.


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## CrazyChester

thunderhooves said:


> CHESTER,NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! You went to the dark side! *cries and bangs head*
> your still my chat buddy,though


If she was putting him up for stud to other people then I would have agreed that he would make a nice gelding.


To the OP; why don't you breed him to your prefered mare then give him the snip, then you won't have any mistake babies and you would also have yourself a nice riding gelding....Also..If you didn't want people to tell you about what flaws your horse has, don't post in the critique section because guess what...people are gonna critique him and you might not what like what has been said.  End and out.


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## pepperduck

AlternativeEquineTraining said:


> okay so ive had it.. Thank you to all that are for me breeding him to my mare. FIRST off the baby is for ME and only ME! I dont care what it comes out as, as the baby is for ME! Second.... so your telling me that if a horse is not completely perfect and doesnt have a good background ( which no one offered to even ask about his... btw his bloodlines are very nice... ) ( poco bueno, three bar, sugar bar, impressive, doc bar.. there are more ) they should not be used... my mare is very well bred zips chocolate chip and she has her flaws and guess what.. i love her to death.. the baby is for me.. just for me.. so i could care less if it has a thin neck or doesnt have perfect legs. I dont show... never will I as i think its corrupted todays horse .. just an opinion though... I do pleasure.... Thank you.. remind me to NOT use this horse forum ever again for the fact that NO one can post anything thats less than perfect without being bashed. again thank you to all who support me in breeding MY mare.. to MY stud.. for MY baby


So I looked at your website that you have a link to... *http://alternativeequinetraining.webs.com

*and I am seriously amazed that you want to breed your horse. You say you rescue horses that have come from bad situations, which is great. However if you rescue horses you seen every day what happens to horses that don't get taken care of, horses that break down. I am amazed you would want to add to that. Your stallion and the mare you have chosen... which is also on your website are a very poor match. You can't guarantee that you can give this horse a home for life, and you are setting it up for failure by being horribly conformed with awful legs. 

So if you choose to breed, at least give him a good life before he inevitably breaks down and then gets sent to slaughter when you can't take of him.


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## Jillyann

pepperduck said:


> So I looked at your website that you have a link to... *http://alternativeequinetraining.webs.com
> 
> *and I am seriously amazed that you want to breed your horse. You say you rescue horses that have come from bad situations, which is great. However if you rescue horses you seen every day what happens to horses that don't get taken care of, horses that break down. I am amazed you would want to add to that. Your stallion and the mare you have chosen... which is also on your website are a very poor match. You can't guarantee that you can give this horse a home for life, and you are setting it up for failure by being horribly conformed with awful legs.
> 
> So if you choose to breed, at least give him a good life before he inevitably breaks down and then gets sent to slaughter when you can't take of him.



Very good point, I must say!


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## TheRoughrider21

eaferg said:


> I skimmed over alot of the replies... just saying.
> 
> "A good color isn't always a good horse. However, a good horse is never a bad color."
> I just don't think anyone should be breeding for color in the horse industry. Sure, you may be a good owner/own all the horses for life. However, I don't think anyone should bring a horse into the world that even has a chance for a bad future. I personally would want the best future for my foal. What if something comes up and you have to sell the foal? You have to think: would the likelyhood of me selling the horse be good?
> 
> There are SO many mediocre horses in the world, some being slaughtered as you read this. Ask yourself: What makes my horses better than the other thousands that are unwanted? Color? Maybe. But TBO I don't think color matters when it comes down to you being in the saddle.
> 
> Just something to think about.


I totally agree with you. I think very few horses have the conformation to be breed. Hypothetically, if you breed your mare to this buckskin, you're probably not going to get buckskin so there goes the color factor. A horse with bad conformation has a hard time getting under himself and moving and sometimes it can cause pain. I would much rather have a borning/plain/ugly colored horse with good/great conformation than a pretty colored horse with bad conformation. Cause no matter how pretty a horse's color might be, bad confo throws the whole look off. If you really want a foal, I suggest breeding your mare to a nice stud that is proven to producing good confo foals.


----------



## vivache

All of you being rude are accomplishing *nothing.* If you're gonna be a butt about it, people just won't post and breed their fugly animals anyway. But if you are sweet and informative, like Mom2Pride, then more people will listen.

Ever heard the saying 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar'?

That being said, I *personally* wouldn't breed these animals. There is a reason I like geldings. ;D


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## StylishK

I agree with above. When you get rude, immature, insulting...etc. your point become mute and you are then trying to convince deaf ears. Instead of being rude about it, take the opporunity to educate in a constructive way. A lot of times people make the mistakes and decisions they do because lack of knoweldge, not because they are "dumb" people. 

I agree, I don't like this horse as a stud. But breeding for one baby should be relatively harmless. Sure she could go out and buy a baby, but maybe she just wants to experience the whole process of it all. In reality, her having one baby to keep for herself is not going to cause a big issue, especially if she truly intends to keep the horse for herself and can afford to do so. Unfortunately there are even more irresponsible breeders out there who pop out quite a few babies yearly, not just ONE time. I agree with the poster who suggested breeding your mare then snipping him when he's mature enough to breed. 

There is a much nicer way to state those facts without getting snippy about it, especially because I didn't notice the OP getting overly defensive about it.
She asked for a critique and therefore there are going to be people who don't like her horse obviously. But she didn't come on here and ask people to show the disrespect they did. Some things were taken too far IMO and bordered on extremely rude and insensitive. Think about being in their shoes, if someone spoke to you the way you spoke to her how would you feel. 

Anyways back on topic. I believe its hard to judge 2YOs too much, I know my gelding went through stages in his 2YO where you saw some faults that he doesn't have now as a 3YO. Right now though he looks a little bit over at the knee, I find there something funny about the way he trots (the liberty photo), which may have to do with the knee. I'll be interesting to see what he turns out like, post some more photos (if you dare) as he grows up and gets stronger and I think you'll see his confo changing a little bit. His confo faults may not end up being as extreme as they seem now. 

Good luck  

I'm truly sorry by some of the post you received, there was no need for the hidden/obvious prods at you. I've noticed there are a few people on the forum who like to gang up on people, so try not to take is personally. Some people just enjoy causing trouble like that, it's something the majority of us grow out of one day  I'm not going to point fingers because that would be both immature and unnecessary as I'm sure those people know who they are anyways. 

Again sorry!! I hope it doesn't deter you from posting more photos. No one has a perfect horse, conformation is important, breeding is important, but heart is even more important. You can have the best bred, best conformed horse and they are complete garbage because they don't have the heart. That being said, if they don't have at least functional conformation they may run into a few problems even if they have a big heart  I think you need a mix of it all.


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## ridergirl23

^ the whole time read that post I was smiling and agreeing. Thanks for typing all that so I didn't have to! 
OP: I sooooooo want to see pics of the foal if you do breed them!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## churumbeque

Just a little info on the impressive blood lines. 

It seemed that Impressive would go down in history as one hell of a horse: Impressive by name, impressive by nature! And then tragedy struck when Impressive was linked to something altogether more sinister: his genetic legacy included a genetic mutation recently implicated in the rare muscular disorder known as known as hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP). Although he never exhibited symptoms of the disease himself it gradually it became evident that many of his descendants were inflicted with the painful, alarming and often fatal disease. The disorder has never been observed in horses of other lineages.


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## TheRoughrider21

TheRoughrider21 said:


> I totally agree with you. I think very few horses have the conformation to be breed. Hypothetically, if you breed your mare to this buckskin, you're probably not going to get buckskin so there goes the color factor. A horse with bad conformation has a hard time getting under himself and moving and sometimes it can cause pain. I would much rather have a borning/plain/ugly colored horse with good/great conformation than a pretty colored horse with bad conformation. Cause no matter how pretty a horse's color might be, bad confo throws the whole look off. If you really want a foal, I suggest breeding your mare to a nice stud that is proven to producing good confo foals.


I hope I didn't sound mean, but thats exactly what I would say to my friends if they wanted to do something like that. I think why people on here start to sound "mean" is becasue they get annoyed with threads like this because they've seen so many foals that no one wants from less-than perfect studs. I must of missed the fact that she was gonna keep the foal for herself but if thats truely the case, I don't see the harm in breeding him once than gelding him.


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## jimmy

i often keep a stallion for driving(got one at the moment)simply because they have that extra bit of go and boy when they smell a mare ,do they go proud,iv,e had one or two get out and cover other peoples mares,but good look to them i,d never dream of going and asking for the cover fee


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## kelley horsemad

jimmy said:


> i often keep a stallion for driving(got one at the moment)simply because they have that extra bit of go and boy when they smell a mare ,do they go proud,iv,e had one or two get out and cover other peoples mares,but good look to them i,d never dream of going and asking for the cover fee


Dear sweet mother of Jebus. :roll: If someone’s stallion got out and covered one of my mares, there would be no discussion of stud fees, rather a long list of costs the negligent stallion owner would have to cover for me, likely nicely summarized in a letter from a lawyer.


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## AlabamaHorseMom

PaintsPwn said:


> Oi Vey! these are FOUNDATION sires! Almost every stock horse has them!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun with your crippled horses then!


 
:shock: :???:

HOW old are you?

There is NOTHING that says the baby from her two horses is going to be crippled.... Are YOU a vet? Are you even a vet tech? Other than information from HF do you have ANY Large animal medical training WHATSOEVER?

Your rudeness is COMPLETELY unnecessary.

And I once again, people like you have scared another poster off HF. 

You all COULD have been more help to this OP, but no, lets all just simply BASH everyone and only have a good 10 or 15 regular posters because everyone else is too afraid to ever say anything.

:? I think I've had enough of HF too.


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## AlabamaHorseMom

kelley horsemad said:


> Dear sweet mother of Jebus. :roll: If someone’s stallion got out and covered one of my mares, there would be no discussion of stud fees, rather a long list of costs the negligent stallion owner would have to cover for me, likely nicely summarized in a letter from a lawyer.


 
Amen to that, But in respects to the Lord (Since its Holy Week and all), Its Jesus....


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## jimmy

kelley horsemad said:


> Dear sweet mother of Jebus. :roll: If someone’s stallion got out and covered one of my mares, there would be no discussion of stud fees, rather a long list of costs the negligent stallion owner would have to cover for me, likely nicely summarized in a letter from a lawyer.


would you really be that awkward kelley?


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## Lis

Awkward? I wouldn't be awkward I'd be absolutely furious that you had been so negligent especially if it had happened once before. I'd be at a lawyers' so fast you wouldn't see me for dust.


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## kelley horsemad

I'm sorry to say I absolutely would be, Jimmy, if that's what you define as awkward. If, hypothetically, I had a mare I wanted bred, I'd do so to the stallion of my choice for a purpose bred foal, not to some roving roustabout who just happened to have a twinkle in his eye and an owner unable to keep him under control.


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## jimmy

Lis said:


> Awkward? I wouldn't be awkward I'd be absolutely furious that you had been so negligent especially if it had happened once before. I'd be at a lawyers' so fast you wouldn't see me for dust.


 i would buy the foal from you if your mare suited me


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## Lis

To be honest if you hadn't been able to keep your stallion in there would be no way I'd be selling the foal to you. All I would give you would be a bill for all vet costs and a court case.


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## kelley horsemad

And if the mare didn't, Jimmy? What then? A foal no one wants? 

And what if it didn't suit the mare owner to have a foal at all? What if that mare owner was about to embark on a busy show season with that mare or had buyers lined up for that mare or any other 100s of reasons that it's inappropriate for the mare to be bred???


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## jimmy

kelley horsemad said:


> I'm sorry to say I absolutely would be, Jimmy, if that's what you define as awkward. If, hypothetically, I had a mare I wanted bred, I'd do so to the stallion of my choice for a purpose bred foal, not to some roving roustabout who just happened to have a twinkle in his eye and an owner unable to keep him under control.


and he does have a twinkle in both eyes and nature is nature what about your mare standing for him ,leading him on so to speak


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## jimmy

Lis said:


> To be honest if you hadn't been able to keep your stallion in there would be no way I'd be selling the foal to you. All I would give you would be a bill for all vet costs and a court case.


 ah lis don,t be spiteful


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## Lis

Not being spiteful, just telling you what I would do if I had a mare that became pregnant due to you not keeping your stallion in.


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## kelley horsemad

jimmy said:


> and he does have a twinkle in both eyes and nature is nature what about your mare standing for him ,leading him on so to speak


 

If my mare was a tease, Jimmy, I'd have no idea where she learned that from.  

I see, now, however, you're just trying to get our hackles up, so I'll leave it at that and head home, possibly to ride one of the horses, or maybe just try and help them shed out some more.


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## jimmy

Lis said:


> Not being spiteful, just telling you what I would do if I had a mare that became pregnant due to you not keeping your stallion in.


it takes 2 lis ,be fair


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## jimmy

kelley horsemad said:


> If my mare was a tease, Jimmy, I'd have no idea where she learned that from.
> 
> I see, now, however, you're just trying to get our hackles up, so I'll leave it at that and head home, possibly to ride one of the horses, or maybe just try and help them shed out some more.


lol you got me all the best


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## Spyder

jimmy said:


> would you really be that awkward kelley?


jimmy...............I wouldn't spar with this one if I were you.

Hey Kelly---we know one stallion that could be coaxed out happily to do the deed.


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## MN Tigerstripes

LOL Jimmy! First funny responses I've seen in this thread. Assuming your were just being a smartass of course. 

To the OP: The stud isn't perfect from what I can see. He doesn't look crippled or to have the worst confo ever either. Looks like normal everday horse with some good points and bad points. Before judging him (esp as harshly as some of the others) I'd like to see proper confo shots and a video of his movement. Anyone who knows confo knows that even a slightly skewed angle can cause a horse to look a lot worse than it actually is. 

If you are absolutely intent upon breeding it is a good idea to wait until he's at least fully mature and has been trained. Then at the very least you know what his confo really is and if he really has any traits you want to pass on.


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## kelley horsemad

jimmy said:


> lol you got me all the best


Well played, Jimmy! :lol: You had me going for a minute there. 

And yes, Spyder, we do know a nice quality sport horse stallion who makes nice babies and who I'd be happy to breed to if I were aiming for a baby!


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## travlingypsy

Whoa what a thread o.o 
I honestly dont get why someone would shell out the money for a breeding when you can go to the auction pay 50-100 bucks for that same quality foal. 

Also it IS the critique section. So why put crappy confo shots of your horse up? As in bad lighting, wrong angels..ect. If you want people to critique your horse. Clean it up, take it out of the pasture, make it stand right and try your best with angles. Really its not that hard to get front,back, both sides. 
Just a pet peev of mine.


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## MN Tigerstripes

Mine too. I don't even bother (usually) to critique the horse if the owner didn't bother to set up the horse correctly. It's not that hard and it doesn't take that long.


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## equiniphile

If you accept responcibility of the foal and know it will stay at your home for its entire life, I see no problem in breeding. Of course, you could breed to a better-looking stallion, but it's your choice


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## travlingypsy

yup. Its even worse when they are selling the horse for 4k or w/e and its muddy with no confo shots.


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## AlternativeEquineTraining

To the people that didnt completely go overboard and bash him.... THANK YOU.. and I do plan on cutting him after he breeds my mare. I didnt get him becuase he is a "buckskin" I could care less if the baby came out a perlino ( my least fav color ) The baby is for me  I am now posting pictures of him in the "pictures" section as I was told to do  So if anyone wants to see them ( the nice people  ) They will be in there


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## Snapple122

thunderhooves said:


> Holy cr** Peetz, you annoy the HECK outa me. Just beause the stud is "pwetty" doesn't mean it should be bred. Breed to a nice stud, even if it doesn't have a show record, as long as its temperment and conformation are nice. On every thread about mares/studs, you say "don't listen to those people who say he/she shouldn't breed". Now I will go around to EVERY thread you post that on and say "Don't listen to Peetz, he/she always says that, no matter the stud.
> I won't do that,though, if you accept one thing:
> That now every horse that still has its "parts" should be bred for a kwoot baybee, that will grow up to be put in auction or bred again for a kwoot baybee. Good confo horses that are proven and AT LEAST broke and again......proven in the disipline it does, even if its now a show horse(ie. showing it can barrel race or move cattle well).


 
ehehehehe. All of your posts made me laugh. The kwoot baybee thing was the best. I almost snorted out my apple juice that I am currently drinking. I totally agree with you though. This is kind of off topic but kind of the same scenerio- why do people buy dogs/ puppies from a breeder (no offense to anyone who has) when there are* so many* dogs (and cats) that are in shelters needing homes. You're adding to the unwanted animal problem by breeding this horse unless you plan to keep the stallion, mare and foal forever.


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## vivache

But why *him*? There are other stallions that would compliment your mare better..


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## WSArabians

Holy crapola, where do I start?
Cute? Handsome? REALLY?

Aside from everything else that's been pointed out His short neck, no feet, average head, straight shoulder...he's more crooked in all four legs than a broken fence post that's been ran over by a tractor. 
He's got an average everyday pedigree, hasn't done anything, I'd bet a million to one neither of his parents have shown, and he never will be. He'll throw fugly babies.
THAT'S why he shouldn't be a stallion. 

You don't CARE if your foal turns out with crooked legs?? I hope you won't CARE then when you have to put it down because it'll be lame for the rest of it's life due to bad breeding choices of bad conformation horses. What a horrible, ridiculous thing to say. 

He's got Impressive breeding. Has he been tested for HYPP? Because if not, I mean really, if you're going to breed your crooked no good for nothin' meat horses, you might as well ensure they get a little HYPP with that as well. Little icing on the cake. 

Peetz, you really need to get your head out of you know where. We aren't looking to "kill the pleasure horse industry." We're looking to stop the over population of horses that have ewe necks and crooked legs. You know? The ones that just end up in the slaughter house, bullet in the brain - Unless you want to go Mexian style where they stab them until paralyzed THEN kill 'em - You know, the horses that THIS POSTER doesn't CARE if she breds or not, as so she so willingly stated? THAT'S the horses we're trying to stop breeding. Because THOSE horses won't even be able to be pleasure horses. 
You need to really get a grip on reality.

Spyder, PaintsPwn, Thunderhooves - Thank you.

Really, at this point, I don't even care that I sound rude or ignorant. Because in my eyes, not caring about what you're breeding and just doing because he's purty, is rude and ignorant as well. There you go. That's karma for you. Love how it comes back to get you in a$$.


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## Snapple122

WS- agreed! BTW- I only said he was "really pretty" so that my post wouldn't sound so mean.


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## CrazyChester

vivache said:


> But why *him*? There are other stallions that would compliment your mare better..


I'm also wondering why you picked him.


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## Gidji

WS-*Probably the best post so far. *That sums it up, no subtle cunning comments;that was straight to the point and honest. I agree completely with what you say.


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## wyominggrandma

I have a beautiful AQHA true blue roan mare with outstanding performance bloodlines. Everyone who sees her comments that I should breed her to get her color and temperament. I don't want to breed her nor have a foal, so had her spayed so I can have fun with her and not worry about being in heat, etc. I do not have facilities to keep a foal safe growing up, and I work for a vet so have no problems with vet work, cost etc. But, I did decide not to produce one more foal.
I have bred and shown dogs for years. Like horse people, there are plenty of dog "producers" who because they have a male and female breed them to make money by selling babies. My breed sells for alot of money for a puppy and folks figure they can make lots of money... I have all the testing done before I breed my dogs at 2 years old, they also have show records before they are bred, if not already Champions. ALL my puppies are sold spayed and neutered before they go to their new homes unless I sell them as a show prospect. I just spayed a beautiful girl because her hips would not pass OFA, but she will make a good pet. I have not had a litter in over 3 years, but great planning goes into a breeding when I do have one.I also have in my contract that I will take back anything I have bred at anytime in the dogs lifetime, I am responsible for what I produce
Breeding dogs or horses just because you have the male and female is not the thing to do these days unless you take the time to know everything good and bad about what you produce. Yea, maybe the OP thinks it will save her a stud fee because its her stallion, but in the long run, it probably is not the right thing to do


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## jimmy

i,l tell you what it is,there are some thick ignorant posts on this thread,you have a young girl, proud as punch of her little horse, asking what you think and alot of you have took it as a signal to kick her to death.yes she put it up for critique(her mistake)but all this **** about crippled foals etc etc, whats that all about?people should put manners on themselves, you can critique without being abusive


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## kitten_Val

jimmy said:


> i,l tell you what it is,there are some thick ignorant posts on this thread,*you have a young girl, proud as punch of her little horse*, asking what you think and alot of you have took it as a signal to kick her to death.yes she put it up for critique(her mistake)but all this **** about crippled foals etc etc, whats that all about?people should put manners on themselves, you can critique without being abusive


Just curious where did you get that? As I'm looking at her website Alternative Equine Training - Stallions I see the rescue(!) posting a stud(!) (and this fact actually scares me). HOWEVER I do agree the discussion went way too far AND the OP doesn't seem to respond at all for while. _Frankly I'd suggest to close the thread! _


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## jimmy

i think thats a good idea


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## equiniphile

Wait, you want to breed the horse to other people's mares, when you have a rescue facility? You want to add to the homeless horses in the world?? I think he would be okay to breed ONE mare, but more than that.....especially to breed to someone else's mares.....

Guys, come on. I doubt the foal will be seriously crippled. Maybe he'll be cow-hocked or sickle-hocked or knock-kneed or the like, but it won't impede is riding ability THAT much. She's not showing, she's pleasure riding.

IMO, he's a nice-looking horse who should make a pretty baby for you and then go on to be a gelding and a great trail horse. IMO


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## Speed Racer

He'll make a nice pleasure gelding.

He's plain, coarse, and has glaring conformation faults. I see nothing about him that suggests breeding him would be a good idea.

The idea is to breed foals who are BETTER than the parents, not the same or even possibly worse.

I'd have had him gelded as soon as his testes dropped, especially since he has Impressive in his bloodlines. That alone would make him a candidate for gelding, even if he was conformationally correct.


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## jimmy

Speed Racer said:


> He'll make a nice pleasure gelding.
> 
> He's plain, coarse, and has glaring conformation faults. I see nothing about him that suggests breeding him would be a good idea.
> 
> The idea is to breed foals who are BETTER than the parents, not the same or even possibly worse.
> 
> I'd have had him gelded as soon as his testes dropped, especially since he has Impressive in his bloodlines. That alone would make him a candidate for gelding, even if he was conformationally correct.


now everybody, this and the post above it are proper constructive critiquesis,ent it a better way to be going on?


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## equiniphile

I'm just asking why she's bringing more less-than-perfeect horses into the world when she's part of a rescue that sees all the homeless horses....


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## jimmy

your right equiniphile but some of the posts on here must have frightened that girl, and thats why she won,t be replying


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## PaintsPwn

The answer is quite simple, equiniphile. She's NOT a rescue. She's a 'lets buy some skinny horses, feed 'em up and give everyone a great story on how they were abused and emotionally traumatized!!!'


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## xoSonnyLove1234

Everyone really needs to calm down and just give constructive critique. Thank you.


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## equiniphile

Ehh. I think it's terrible when people do that, but we can't classify her as that person unless we have more information......

Anyway, back to the point. What kind of critique were you looking for? What discipline? Riding Western-style for pleasure? Breeding?


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## charlicata

I'm not going to say anything good or bad about your little guy. I'm just going to tell you what I was told by my farrier when thinking of breeding my mare. 

The short version is that it's much cheaper and more reasonable to buy one that's already on the ground. But, this is how he broke it down to me:

First off, you need to get the mare checked to see if she is able to carry a baby.

All the shots the mare needs (I think) before (or right after) she gets pregnant.

The stud fee (nothing in your case if you do decide to breed).

At least one vet visit every 3 months to make sure that the mare and the baby are healthy.

The vet if the mare needs help delivering. Or worst case scenario, you lose the mare, baby, or both during delivery.

The vet to check the mare and baby shortly after delivery.

Hopefully the baby comes out fine. But, regardless of bloodlines, could come out deformed in some way; have allergies; break a leg while being delivered; or something else that would cause the vet bills to mount; or may come out crazy as a bess-bug (we never know for sure).

Regular checks with shots, booster shots, worming, etc. until it's at least a yearling. Then, at least twice a year for the rest of it's life.

Then farrier bills for the mare; not to mention for the baby for the 2 years that it cannot be ridden. (even if you don't keep shoes on them)

The extra feed for a horse that will basically have no purpose, other than to look cute, for 2 years.

Even after reading through some of the breeding threads on here, I decided to ask somebody who actually used to breed. He really helped me to understand the whole thing better just being able to have somebody in front of me speaking to me while explaining the cons of the situation. This is why I have decided to NEVER breed my mare. I love her too much to risk her for something that I would just want.

Good luck in your decision.


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## speedy da fish

eaferg said:


> Ok? But are you ready to handle the responsibility of a foal? Or of the stallion? Because until he's gelded you will always have to keep him seperate from the mare in case of unwanted babies.
> 
> I'm just saying that if you really want a foal, buy one from an auction instead of risking that the foal you create is just another slaughter horse.


If she wants a foal, she wants a foal and will look after him/her. Personally I would geld him (for industrial breeding purposes) but I do think he is lovely  so for breeding him in your own right he's fine, you never know know you may get a beautiful foal, you gotta start somewhere.


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## PaintsPwn

> so for breeding him in your own right he's fine, you never know know you may get a beautiful foal, you gotta start somewhere.


"If you polish a turd, it's still a turd." - Peanut/Jeff Dunham


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## speedy da fish

DakotaLuv said:


> To be honest I'm not a big fan of buckskins, but I really like this guy. When he fills out he should look really nice. I LOVE a good looking bay or sorrel. I'm not a big color nut.





PaintsPwn said:


> Apparently you're not a confo nut either, or a nut for a good stallion.


remember hes only 2 so he will look completely different when he is older. my horse was 6 or 7 when he was gelded.


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## speedy da fish

PaintsPwn said:


> "If you polish a turd, it's still a turd." - Peanut/Jeff Dunham


haha i would hardly call a beautiful animal a turd, you call your self a horse lover?


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## Speed Racer

I personally don't find him 'beautiful', speedy. He's about as plain and coarse as any grade horse I've ever seen.

A breeding-worthy animal should make one sit up and take notice because of their 'wow factor'. This horse doesn't do that. 

There's absolutely nothing special about him, and I can find a dozen or more just like him at any auction on any given day. _Nothing _about him says that his genes are worth passing along to another generation, especially since he's Impressive bred.

Knowingly passing on the possibilty of HYPP is _extremely_ irresponsible as far as I'm concerned.


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## speedy da fish

you have a very good point speed racer  i agree, but im like that i find all horses beautiful  HYPP gene 'Impressive syndrome' cant that cause muscle weakness/defects? :s, a horse shouldnt be bred with that...


----------



## Speed Racer

Yes, HYPP can cause muscle spasms to the point where the horse falls down. In some extreme cases, it can cause death. 

It's not like epilepsy because it doesn't affect the brain patterns, only the muscles of the body.

This isn't the type of thing I'd knowingly pass on to any animal. It's cruelty based on nothing but vanity for the owner.

Thinking an animal is pretty because that's how you feel about all horses isn't the same thing as critiqueing an animal as a possible breeding stallion, speedy.

I have nothing against him as a horse, just don't find him an exceptional example who needs to pass on his genetics. He's not fabulous or spectacular; he's pretty much nothing special.

I have always owned geldings. None of them, including the horse who owned my heart for 21 years, was worthy of keeping his testicles. He was a beautiful example of his breed, but nothing about him made him breeding stallion material.


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## lilkk11907

For everyone that is out there bashing this poor horse because he has a short or weak neck and he should be gelded because he has poor legs or that he is ugly...You guys are all WRONG! This horse is so cute and I can't wait to see the baby pictures. Just because you wouldn't breed him, doesn't mean she can't. If she likes how he looks and she wants to breed him with her mare, thats her buisness. Its HER baby...Not anyone elses...This stallion is extremely sweet and you guys have no right to just sit here and bash him to say he is not the breeding type. WHo are you guys to say that? I think that her bay mare and this buckskin stud will make a beautiful baby no matter what. You guys call yourselves horse people...the horse buisness is not always about the competion...what happened to just having a horse for pleasure and to jump on their back to go for a trail ride and not have to work your horse so hard to be in first. Horses are not made to compete. We make them. I think that AlternativeTraining has all the right in the world to breed this stud and I think she should do it. I can't wait to see the pictures of the baby and the best of luck to you!!!!! =)


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## Speed Racer

How old are you, lilkk? You sound like an uninformed kid.

She put the horse's pictures up and ASKED for a critique. The fact that she heard _honest_ opinions from people with decades of horse experience doesn't mean we're 'meanie doodie heads' if we don't gush over him, and tell her what a_ great_ idea it would be to breed him to her grade mare.

The horse has questionable conformation, he's common, grade, and is Impressive bred. If you don't know who Impressive was and why that's a BAD THING, I suggest you do some research.

He'll make a cute gelding. He's not stallion material, and even if he were perfectly conformed and had won the Olympics, the fact that he's Impressive bred would make me geld him before he so much as got a whiff of _any_ mare.


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## Jessabel

lilkk11907 said:


> For everyone that is out there bashing this poor horse because he has a short or weak neck and he should be gelded because he has poor legs or that he is ugly...You guys are all WRONG! This horse is so cute and I can't wait to see the baby pictures. Just because you wouldn't breed him, doesn't mean she can't. If she likes how he looks and she wants to breed him with her mare, thats her buisness. Its HER baby...Not anyone elses...This stallion is extremely sweet and you guys have no right to just sit here and bash him to say he is not the breeding type. WHo are you guys to say that? I think that her bay mare and this buckskin stud will make a beautiful baby no matter what. You guys call yourselves horse people...the horse buisness is not always about the competion...what happened to just having a horse for pleasure and to jump on their back to go for a trail ride and not have to work your horse so hard to be in first. Horses are not made to compete. We make them. I think that AlternativeTraining has all the right in the world to breed this stud and I think she should do it. I can't wait to see the pictures of the baby and the best of luck to you!!!!! =)


 I think you're completely missing the point. Even the highest quality horses aren't selling right now. Can the OP guarantee that she'll always have the resources to care for the potential foal until the day it dies? Of course not. What happens if she had to sell it? There is no demand for plain, dime-a-dozen grade horses. There are more horses than the industry can absord as it is and the excess ones usually end up in bad places. I can go to the auction right now and pick out several critters that look just like the buckskin stud that are selling for 25 bucks a piece. Being cute or a pretty color won't keep a horse out of the kill pen and it doesn't make a horse breeding quality. A true stallion or broodmare prospect is superior in every way (temperament, conformation, pedigree, athletic ability, showing ability, etc.). Even if it's just a pleasure horse, I still don't agree with breeding one that isn't top quality. The OP could go to the auction and pick up a foal that's already on the ground for cheap. 

I agree with Speed Racer. The OP asked for a critique, and she recieved it. We have every right to tell her what we think, even if it's not all sunshine and butterflies. It's called having an opinion.


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## TheRoughrider21

lilkk11907 said:


> For everyone that is out there bashing this poor horse because he has a short or weak neck and he should be gelded because he has poor legs or that he is ugly...You guys are all WRONG! This horse is so cute and I can't wait to see the baby pictures. Just because you wouldn't breed him, doesn't mean she can't. If she likes how he looks and she wants to breed him with her mare, thats her buisness. Its HER baby...Not anyone elses...This stallion is extremely sweet and you guys have no right to just sit here and bash him to say he is not the breeding type. WHo are you guys to say that? I think that her bay mare and this buckskin stud will make a beautiful baby no matter what. You guys call yourselves horse people...the horse buisness is not always about the competion...what happened to just having a horse for pleasure and to jump on their back to go for a trail ride and not have to work your horse so hard to be in first. Horses are not made to compete. We make them. I think that AlternativeTraining has all the right in the world to breed this stud and I think she should do it. I can't wait to see the pictures of the baby and the best of luck to you!!!!! =)


Stallion's aren't sweet. Plain and simple. I grew around a breeding farm(that I visited almost everyday to play with the foals). I have watched studs get loose and kill their own foals. I have seen studs that seem "sweet" and good-natured, not really studdy like, grab their handlers by the shoulders and shake them. Hormones are a nasty devil. Just like teenagers(which I am but have lots of experience around horses and studs), except studs are always in the moody, hormonal stage. "Horses are not made to compete"??? where did you get that idea? Even when horses were first discovered, they were used for racing and ranch work(which yes, can be qualifed as competing). That was a completly uninformed post and I'm sorry if I sound like an a$$, but posts like that annoy me.


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## equiniphile

likk, I have to agree you're missing the point. Not all horses are worth passing down genes for, especially a horse with HYPP in his bloodlines. The only way I personally would breed a horse with HYPP that occured more than once in his bloodlines is if he turned out to be a very talented horse in the discipline I trained him in. Likk, it's not all about all horses being created equal and being able to be bred and everyone having something good about them. No....if you have a horse that's likely to pass down a horrid gene, the smart thing is usually not to breed them. I hate to be mean, but please don't post if you're this uninformed. Who are we to say he's not breeding material? We have every right to! She posted him in the critique section. It doesn't matter what personality he has, if a horse isn't anything special IMO he should be gelded. Enough said. Honstly? Selective breeding will make better quality horses and horses that will pass on immunities to different viruses and bad confo traits. A horse with better confo has less reason for vet visits because of ill-put-togetherness, is faster because he's put together perfectly for his discipline, and better able to survive. Why do you think dominant horses in a herd always get the mares? That fighting, dominant, survival-bound quality is what needs to be passed down for the good of the herd and safety of themselves. It's mean to let that horse sit as a stally if he's never going to breed.

A Q to the OP....you're going to wait until he's trained and you strengthen his skills before you breed, right? I think that makes it more likely for the foal to have those qualities....not sure though, it might all be in predetermined genetics.


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## kitten_Val

Speed Racer said:


> The horse has questionable conformation, he's common, grade, and is Impressive bred. If you don't know who *Impressive was and why that's a BAD THING*, I suggest you do some research.
> 
> He'll make a cute gelding. He's not stallion material, and even if he were perfectly conformed and had won the Olympics, the fact that *he's Impressive bred would make me geld him before he so much as got a whiff of any mare.*


Wow! I bet some people on forum could take it as an offense (and will be right). There is nothing wrong with Impressive lines as long as it's HYPP NN! In fact lots of horses from that line looks lovely and good athletes.


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## TheCowgirlRanda

Honestly reading all these posts all I wanted to do is laugh. If someone wants to breed their horse then they should go right ahead and do it. But then when I go back and look the owner DID STATE TO CRITIQUE HER STALLION, That been said everyone stated there opinion. MY opinion is that this stallion has flaws (like any other horse does) and would probably be best suited as a gelding, only because after breeding him once he may break into the pen with other mares and make unplanned pregnancies. (sorry cant spell) I will say that he is fairly pretty and has a nice kind eye.

Hope I didn't offend anyone =/


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## equiniphile

Here's a site that does a good job of explaining HyPP, for those who aren't familiar with it:

Index


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## Spyder

Personally I think this thread has run it course.

All the snarks have been said three times over.

If anyone wants to start a thread on HYPP a new thread in health may be more beneficial as good information tends to get lost when it is posted on threads where it isn't expected.

HYPP is a good subject but will be found easier for those wanting information in an area where people would look for it.


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## WSArabians

lilkk11907 said:


> For everyone that is out there bashing this poor horse because he has a short or weak neck and he should be gelded because he has poor legs or that he is ugly...You guys are all WRONG! This horse is so cute and I can't wait to see the baby pictures. Just because you wouldn't breed him, doesn't mean she can't. If she likes how he looks and she wants to breed him with her mare, thats her buisness. Its HER baby...Not anyone elses...This stallion is extremely sweet and you guys have no right to just sit here and bash him to say he is not the breeding type. WHo are you guys to say that? I think that her bay mare and this buckskin stud will make a beautiful baby no matter what. You guys call yourselves horse people...the horse buisness is not always about the competion...what happened to just having a horse for pleasure and to jump on their back to go for a trail ride and not have to work your horse so hard to be in first. Horses are not made to compete. We make them. I think that AlternativeTraining has all the right in the world to breed this stud and I think she should do it. I can't wait to see the pictures of the baby and the best of luck to you!!!!! =)


Wrong? Really? 
I can't even believe you could SAY that.
Have you LOOKED at this horse's conformation? If you have, and didn't seen anything wrong, you really REALLY need to go get an edu-macation in horse conformation. Or, something... 

I realise you are one of her little friends trying to be nice, but you are making yourself sound like a complete idiot. IMO - It doesn't look good on you.


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## WSArabians

Gidji said:


> WS-*Probably the best post so far. *That sums it up, no subtle cunning comments;that was straight to the point and honest. I agree completely with what you say.


Thank you.


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## WSArabians

PaintsPwn said:


> "If you polish a turd, it's still a turd." - Peanut/Jeff Dunham


****!!

Oh, so... I was reading, read Polish turds.. Thought, you calling my Polish A-rabs TURDS?! (Although, admittly, they CAN be!) but then re read it. It's polish, not PO-lish. haha!

I'm SO going to use that sometime!


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## Jillyann

I cant believe this thread is still going on!!


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## thunderhooves

Wait............ is this the girl who just had a thread called " Horse Gelded without permsiion" or something like that? And she was leasing to buy a $12,000 Trek stud that the owner just had gelded? i noticed the link to the website and noticed it was the same one......hmm......... She said she even had the Trek lined up to breed her QH mare....... is it by chance the same one? hmmm.............


Something neuticle-y is going on here..........*gets out Texas Jumping Horse detective hat*

BTW, in my eairlier post, when it said "now", I meant "not",lol.


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## wild_spot

^ I don't think it's the same person.

Someone else beat me to it, but just wanted to point out that not all Impressive bred horses ahve Hypp - And those who are n/n are perfectly safe to breed on (Considering all the other factors of course).


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## StylishK

thunderhooves said:


> Wait............ is this the girl who just had a thread called " Horse Gelded without permsiion" or something like that? And she was leasing to buy a $12,000 Trek stud that the owner just had gelded? i noticed the link to the website and noticed it was the same one......hmm......... She said she even had the Trek lined up to breed her QH mare....... is it by chance the same one? hmmm.............
> 
> 
> Something neuticle-y is going on here..........*gets out Texas Jumping Horse detective hat*
> 
> BTW, in my eairlier post, when it said "now", I meant "not",lol.


I don't think so. I think that was Whiskeygirl


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## kmacdougall

Ok, time to throw my hat in the ring. OP, please read this and take something from it: 

I have an aged Morgan gelding who was a stallion until he was 9. He comes from Championship bloodlines and was a great example of Morgan conformation in his hayday. He has no babies on the ground. Why? Because his conformation wasn't enough: he had to have a job, and he had to excel at it. As a yearling, he got in a disagreement with a fence. Though completely sound, it left his leg scarred, and his career in breed shows went nowhere. At nine, even though he had perfect conformation, he was gelded.
Would he have thrown great babies? Maybe. Would he have thrown show ring winners? Quite possibly. Why wasn't he bred then? Because his full brother, who has a show ring record a mile long and countless magazine covers to his name, is almost identical. Except he's better, because he's proven.
I'd love to have a baby off my horse - he's everything I could ask for in a horse and more. So if I ever get the NEED to have one, I'll go breed to his brother. I'll get a horse much like mine, but with a higher value.

I'm not saying don't breed your horse. I'm saying wait it out a bit. Your stallion is not perfect - if we want to get technical, he's far from it - but give him time to prove himself at whatever job you're going to give him, in the show ring or out of it. If his conformation settles out, he'll (hopefully) throw nice babies. If his conformation settles out and he proves himself to be a wonderful horse in every department, he'll (hopefully) throw WONDERFUL babies.
Just wait it out. Things change.


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## iridehorses

I think that enough has been said/discussed and it's time to close this thread.

To the OP, good luck with your horse with whatever your plans for him may be.


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