# Critique my last show :)



## guesy (Jan 30, 2009)

This is me and my trainers horse at my most recent show. This was just a flat class. Please tell me what you think. (The horse is a quarter horse, and i was 12 years old at the show- it has been a while since my last show) :?

p.s. i had to take the pictures off of my tv because my dad taped the show on a camcorder. thats why they are bad quality.









trot^









trot^









trot^









horrible hand position^









trot^









canter^









canter^









how is headset?^









walk^

*ONLY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISISM PLEASE*


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## toosleepy (Jan 14, 2009)

are you showing hunter jumper or english pleasure? for a stock horse (quarter horse) you have him WAY over collected. You idealy want his neck level to the ground with him reaching forward and out with his nose so he's perpindicular or just beyond. Also, you stirrups are way to short.


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## makin tracks (Jan 25, 2009)

I agree his nose is behind the vertical and he needs to be ridden more from behind. Leg into hand rather than the other way around.

Not a critisism but a question on the stirrups. 
I've noticed in a few of the photos on here that stirrups are shorter (sometimes a lot) than I would ever ride on the flat and for trail riding. Is it an accepted length in America?
I'm just interested in the way other countries do things that's all.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

I can't be sure of the class but if I had to guess it almost looks like a road hack type of class. In this class type the horse will tend to have a more rounded appearance but I agree with the others that the head is behind the verticle and not where it should be. What I did notice is the way you hold the reins with the rein fully through the hand and all fingers around the reins (pic 4) and what this does is put a lot of pressure on the bit. The horse's jaw is not relaxed and this could be the reason. A long time ago I was told that the fewer fingers around the rein usually the softer the hold. Try holding the reins with just 4 or even 3 fingers. 

I also agree that the stirrups could be a hole or two longer and this would give you a more balanced and "neater" position.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Other then what otyhers said, I think you look good! In most pictures you are looking ahead and you are sitting up nicely


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## guesy (Jan 30, 2009)

This was a hunter jumper flat class. Yes i actually agree with his head problems, but like i said this is my trainers horse and when i asked him for collection that is what he gave me. However, i do not agree with just because he is a quarter horse that he should have the low western head set. My stirrups ARE way to short but i had a jumping class right before this class and i just either forgot to, or didnt change them. Also, this happened just before this class:










(That was on the photographers website, yes it is me and the horse)
So i was a bit shaken up. But thank you all


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## toosleepy (Jan 14, 2009)

I can see your point that he was showing in a hunter jumper class, my point was if you were showing english pleasure at a non hunter/jumper show you would not be competative the way he was carrying his head/neck. Its very hard when its not your own horse. I would still try to soften him up and relax his head carriage.


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

No critique for me but you look like a wonderful rider!


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## guesy (Jan 30, 2009)

Ohhh okay i understand now toosleepy, sorry if i was being rude.

and thank you very much morganshow11


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

No problem!


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## orangetictac (Nov 4, 2008)

guesy said:


> This was a hunter jumper flat class. Yes i actually agree with his head problems, but like i said this is my trainers horse and when i asked him for collection that is what he gave me. *However, i do not agree with just because he is a quarter horse that he should have the low western head set.* My stirrups ARE way to short but i had a jumping class right before this class and i just either forgot to, or didnt change them. Also, this happened just before this class:
> 
> (That was on the photographers website, yes it is me and the horse)
> So i was a bit shaken up. But thank you all


I'm not a show person...so my opinion probably isn't wanted...but you did ask how the headset was in the line up... It looked to me like the horses on either side of you had a lower headset. I would be nervous if I didn't feel confident in my horse's headset if it's totally opposite of the headset of all the other horses in the ring...especially if I didn't win... Don't know if you did or not, did you say? Hope you did well though. 

I'm also not sure why you just wouldn't change your stirrups (if you didn't forget) when you're going in a class that needs longer stirrups. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist, but I'd want to be perfect going in the ring if I were to show (which is a big reason why I don't show).


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

What I see - is a rider who is focused on a false headset, instead of riding the horse correctly.

I see you really stiff in your hands/elbows/shoulders - resulting in a rider holding onto the horses face, forcing this false headset or "collection"

The horse is stiff, on the muscle, compacted and just held there - in this fake frame.

You ask for collection by riding Seat into legs into Hands. Not Hands first.

He was trying to evade by going behind the verticle.

He looks really miserable in the canter pictures. 

Get rid of the idea of a "headset" and start rethinking about True Collection and Engagement.

You cannot go around holding your horses face - because it creates negative results. Horse stiff, horse on the muscle, horse tense. Not being allowed to move forward and under themselves, not being able to build and blanace by using the correct muscles.

You need to learn how to ride seat first. Your seat activates the back end. Riding on all 3 points *2 seat bones and crotch* with a strait lower back - allowing core to be effective. Engaging the back end - because that is where it all comes from.

Then your legs - your legs aid your seat by taking over and continueing with the energy you created through your seat. Your legs must not only keep the rhythm you created, but also aid in lifting your horses back/ribs - because now, your horses topline can work.

Energy, recycles into outside rein. By keeping soft, supple contact through your outside rein, this allows that energy you created to recycle back thorugh, instead of gushing out your horses front end. Also, proper hand carraige aids your horse to be lifted up and off of their forehand.

Right now - your horse is stiff, on the muscle, on his forehand. Not using himself correct. Not being able to move forward and under himself. Instead he is compacted in due to rider trying to get this incorrect headset.

Allow your horse to work correctly - and then, and only then, will a proper headset come into factor.

It is all said and done with words on a computer screen, that is why you need a good coach to beable to teach you this correctly.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

What I see - is a rider who is focused on a false headset, instead of riding the horse correctly.

I see you really stiff in your hands/elbows/shoulders - resulting in a rider holding onto the horses face, forcing this false headset or "collection"

The horse is stiff, on the muscle, compacted and just held there - in this fake frame.

You ask for collection by riding Seat into legs into Hands. Not Hands first.

He was trying to evade by going behind the verticle.

He looks really miserable in the canter pictures. 

Get rid of the idea of a "headset" and start rethinking about True Collection and Engagement.

You cannot go around holding your horses face - because it creates negative results. Horse stiff, horse on the muscle, horse tense. Not being allowed to move forward and under themselves, not being able to build and blanace by using the correct muscles.

You need to learn how to ride seat first. Your seat activates the back end. Riding on all 3 points *2 seat bones and crotch* with a strait lower back - allowing core to be effective. Engaging the back end - because that is where it all comes from.

Then your legs - your legs aid your seat by taking over and continueing with the energy you created through your seat. Your legs must not only keep the rhythm you created, but also aid in lifting your horses back/ribs - because now, your horses topline can work.

Energy, recycles into outside rein. By keeping soft, supple contact through your outside rein, this allows that energy you created to recycle back thorugh, instead of gushing out your horses front end. Also, proper hand carraige aids your horse to be lifted up and off of their forehand.

Right now - your horse is stiff, on the muscle, on his forehand. Not using himself correct. Not being able to move forward and under himself. Instead he is compacted in due to rider trying to get this incorrect headset.

Allow your horse to work correctly - and then, and only then, will a proper headset come into factor.

It is all said and done with words on a computer screen, that is why you need a good coach to beable to teach you this correctly.

~~~

Aside from that, your seat is nice - I like that it is on all 3 points. And I like that you are looking up and ahead of yourself.

Also, another thing I see - is that you grip with your knees allot. You cannot have a functional seat, when you don't have a functional lower leg. Open your knees up, allow your heels to absorb your bodies weight and allow your inner calf to be effective.

The moment you grip and pinch with your knees, you block that flow - not permitting energy and weight to flow down into your lower leg and heel. 

Your lower leg has to be effective, so that your seat can be. Your seat has to be effective, so that your upper body can be effective. Your upper body has to be effective, so that your elbows and hands can be effective...so on and so forth.

Chain reaction - you loose one link in the chain, you disrubt the rest. 

Again, you need to find a coach who will beable to work on this with you 

All the best!


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## guesy (Jan 30, 2009)

orangetictac said:


> I'm not a show person...so my opinion probably isn't wanted...but you did ask how the headset was in the line up... It looked to me like the horses on either side of you had a lower headset. I would be nervous if I didn't feel confident in my horse's headset if it's totally opposite of the headset of all the other horses in the ring...especially if I didn't win... Don't know if you did or not, did you say? Hope you did well though.
> 
> I'm also not sure why you just wouldn't change your stirrups (if you didn't forget) when you're going in a class that needs longer stirrups. Maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist, but I'd want to be perfect going in the ring if I were to show (which is a big reason why I don't show).


I got third in the show. The horses next to me didnt place.


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## guesy (Jan 30, 2009)

MIEventer said:


> What I see - is a rider who is focused on a false headset, instead of riding the horse correctly.
> 
> I see you really stiff in your hands/elbows/shoulders - resulting in a rider holding onto the horses face, forcing this false headset or "collection"
> 
> ...



I disagree with almost all of this, the stuff that you said about my knees, etc, could not possibly be seen from these pictures. Also, the horse was not stiff at all, he was well warmed up and only not under himself in the canter. Im sorry to be rude, but you dont know the horse or how he has to be ridden. I am completely aware that i asked for critique and thank you for your input, i just feel completely opposite of what you have apparently been trained to do. Thank you.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

guesy said:


> I disagree with almost all of this, the stuff that you said about my knees, etc, could not possibly be seen from these pictures. Also, the horse was not stiff at all, he was well warmed up and only not under himself in the canter. Im sorry to be rude, but you dont know the horse or how he has to be ridden.


What I have learned when asking for a critique is to not ever ask for one unless I am willing to get responses that I disagree with in part, entirely or even to the point I may feel the response is stupid. It is the nature of message boards.

It is surprising what can be seen from a picture or two and when top trainers ( like George Morris) have made public critiques on well known magazines it does show that a good eye can see things. I must assume since you made no mention of my critique that you agreed with it?

I was being polite but I do feel that any trainer that allows someone to handle the reins the way you do is not doing their job and no way would I have allowed any student to enter a class with the stirrups as short as yours were (even for jumper ) in some of those pictures. That creates a seat so unstable that the fall you experienced was inevitable.



guesy said:


> I am completely aware that i asked for critique and thank you for your input, i just feel completely opposite of what you have apparently been trained to do. Thank you.


And this was all that needed to be said.


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## guesy (Jan 30, 2009)

Spyder said:


> I can't be sure of the class but if I had to guess it almost looks like a road hack type of class. In this class type the horse will tend to have a more rounded appearance but I agree with the others that the head is behind the verticle and not where it should be. What I did notice is the way you hold the reins with the rein fully through the hand and all fingers around the reins (pic 4) and what this does is put a lot of pressure on the bit. The horse's jaw is not relaxed and this could be the reason. A long time ago I was told that the fewer fingers around the rein usually the softer the hold. Try holding the reins with just 4 or even 3 fingers.
> 
> I also agree that the stirrups could be a hole or two longer and this would give you a more balanced and "neater" position.


Yes i agree with the holding the reins for fewer fingers, my hands are a horrible habit that i have, almost everything about them i have trouble with. Also yes i do think that my stirrups should be shorter, but even i am not sure why they werent.


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