# Harnessing Up-----The Breeching



## Clayton Taffy

This breeching is too small. The backstrap is pulling on the saddle, tilting it backwards, it is also on the last hole so no adjustment. The crupper is to tight and also on the last hole. The breeching should wrap farther around horses rump, And the hip straps should go further up the croup as it goes over the horse. The back strap should have a keeper on it. I loose them all the time, it seems every time I clean the harness.

Does anyone know how to put text in between photos you uploaded, that would be much easier to point things out?


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## G8tdh0rse

Oh boy a new installment! How does the top of the breeching go under/over the crupper strap. I see loops and buckles on the photos but I can't quite tell what goes over/under what.


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## Clayton Taffy

^^I will try and get a better photo from above tonight.^^


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## churumbeque

Taffy Clayton said:


> ^^I will try and get a better photo from above tonight.^^


 You don't have time tonight, you should be getting ready for company.
LOL


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## Clayton Taffy

churumbeque said:


> You don't have time tonight, you should be getting ready for company.
> LOL


 
The kitchen isn't swept but the barn is:lol:.


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## Clayton Taffy

G8tdh0rse said:


> Oh boy a new installment! How does the top of the breeching go under/over the crupper strap. I see loops and buckles on the photos but I can't quite tell what goes over/under what.


I hope this helps. This is a close up of the backstrap where the loinstrap crosses it. This is the breeching that is to small for the horse. you can really see how short it is and that it is on the last buckle, and you can see how the loin strap doesn't lay flat it wants to bend because the breeching seat is to short, it is pulling the hip straps back.

Okay on photos one and two can you see how the hip strap goes through the back strap? There is double leather there with both ends sewn down at the keepers, so the hip strap has a place to cross and will not move around. This back strap has two places where the hip strap can cross, the second one I marked with a pen. Most harnesses have just one place to cross. I have no idea what that area or part of the harness is called.

On photo three this is a longer back stap but the same too short breeching. you can see how the hip strap is better because the back strap is longer but it still wants to pull a bit. There is plenty of extra leather on the back strap for adjustment.
This backstrap on photo three only has one place for the hipstrap to go through the back stap to get to the other side.

I am being super critical on the harness fit for these threads. Photo three is the breeching I use every day, I know it is not 100% correct and I watch for any problems that might arrise. I am currently looking for a larger breeching seat for my everyday harness. I would never use the breeching in the first photos, downright dangerous.


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## Clayton Taffy

I will claqrify, The reason I feel the breeching in the first two photos is dangerous.
There is not enough leather on the back strap to go through even one keeper, could come ondone,
With the back strap too small the crupper is way too tight and horses do not like that, it can cause soars, kicking, balking, and serious discomfort. 
The hip straps go too far back at an angle, they just don't offer as much support fot the breeching seat, keeping it in the proper place.


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## G8tdh0rse

*breeching fit*

Here is my breeching. The harness is new and stiff. What can I do to make it fit as it should?


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## clippityclop

^^^This is what happens to me with new harnesses - they never make one that fits the horse I need to fit - the saddle might fit right, but the breeching is way too big for my horse's rear or vice versa....

I hang mine, I lay it on a barrel (as if it was on a horse) and sometimes I put it in a bag and it still never holds its shape - my fault mostly - I don't mess with it enough to keep it supple. I drive in spurts - sometimes every week, sometimes not for months.


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## G8tdh0rse

I did put saddle oil on it and it will probably get better with use. I also posted pictures of my saddle on the saddle thread and of my breast collar on that thread. Please tell me what you think.


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## Clayton Taffy

G8tdh0rse said:


> Here is my breeching. The harness is new and stiff. What can I do to make it fit as it should?


The thing I am most concerned about is where your hip strap crosses over your back stap. It seems there is no place where this happens that the hip strap cannot move around. It seems yours can move around and God forbid compleatly come apart from the back strap, It looks llike the only thing holding the hip strap in place is the end of the back strap in the keepers. This could be catastrophic if it comes undone, the breeching would fail totally and the cart would run up on your pony.

Okay, how do we fix it? First is it true that this is the way your harness is constructed or am I seeing it wrong? 
I will try and take a photo of mine as a close up and see how it is constructed, maybe you can add a piece to yours to make it work. Maybe take it to an amish person or a good cobbler in your area.

The other thing is how long is your breeching seat? Can you measure it in inches and I will see how long it is compared to my horse size. It looks very big.

First adjustment I would make is to tighten the back strap so that is snug from saddle to crupper and the crupper hanges about, for a pony, one to one and a half inches under the tail. When you do this try and adjust it so that the place where the hipstrap crosses over is at the top of the croup of your horse. Then cross the hip strap over and put the breeching on, then lets see a photo again. More adjustments will most likely be needed again.

Always put your leather billets in their keepers, this will make sure you don't forget when you are in a hurry and it will keep your keepers pliable and they won't become too small to accept the billets.


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## clippityclop

Actually I've seen quite a few of these types and I think they are pretty common, at least where I am. I personally have a couple of harnesses where the entire rear rigging just lays across my horse's rump thru the crupper rigging like that. I'm sure that it has alot to do with who made the harness and the quality and such - my two harness are very decent harnesses and weren't the cheapest on the block, but not $1K either.

Mine have never given me trouble or tried to come apart and one thing I have noticed is that it actually works a bit like the singletree's movement to help keep friction off the shoulders - the rear strap can move with the movement of the hips separately just a little from the crupper rigging and it helps avoid the friction buildup on the horse's hide - we've noticed this on all day trail rides where the horses stay in harness off and on all day for 6 hours or more. Just my experience to share.


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## Clayton Taffy

I'm going to check it out, as I have said I am no expert and I can only go by the harnesses I have seen. I hope to check out lots of harnesses at the national drive. They have a safety check before you can go out on the trails, I might just hang out there for a bit.

My hip strap where it crosses the back strap does move back and forth, when I sit in the cart, I center the hip strap if it is uneven, from the cart. Mine has a piece of leather sewn to make a "pocket" where the hip strap crosses and cannot get out of that "pocket"


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## clippityclop

I like that 'pocket' that I see on yours - I agree that it is better.


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## G8tdh0rse

I have no pocket in the backstrap, my breeching strap just fits under the backstrap between two sets of two keepers. I will measure the part of the breeching that goes around the butt of the horse, Taffy? You are not concerned about the length of the straps over the croup, right?


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## Clayton Taffy

G8tdh0rse said:


> I have no pocket in the backstrap, my breeching strap just fits under the backstrap between two sets of two keepers. I will measure the part of the breeching that goes around the butt of the horse, Taffy? You are not concerned about the length of the straps over the croup, right?


The hip straps look fine, plenty of leather for lengthening and plenty of room to punch more holes to make shorter.

See how long your breeching is? If the breeching were level it looks like it would go past her flanks, and that might keep the breeching hold back straps from functioning properly. Hopefully just some adjustment will correct this.


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## clippityclop

G8td, I wonder if pony size breeching would fit your pony better? My 1/2 welsh uses a mix of cob and horse sized harness because the breeching was too big on the original harness I ordered him. Just a thought - 

hey if anyone knows of a good harness working shop, let me know. I don't mind sending my stuff off somewhere if the workmanship is reputable and others have had good results. I have enough strap work needing fixing to keep a shop busy for a month!:wink: The saddle repair shops around me won't touch it -they admit that they don't know enough about harness and don't want to take a chance on messing anything up. I live in an area full of western pleasure riders - unless it's swarovski crystals or nailhead or leather tooling, I'm out of luck!


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## ladygodiva1228

Clippityclop I know of a very reputable harness shop. Lasalle Harness in Rhode Island. A bit far from TX, but I have had saddles repaired there and they are amazing. Of course they specialize in harnesses. Here is their website. LaSalle Harness


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## clippityclop

Thank you! I'll visit their site and check them out. I myself found a great boot repair shop for fixing tall boots and paddock boots- don't know that this belongs here, but I'll throw it out there anyway - they replaced the zippers in my field boots, polished and shined them and sent them back to me better than new - Pisano and Sons Pisano & Son - Pisano & Son I can vouch for their workmanship on boots. I mean - everyone needs a decent pair of boots for driving, right? LOL!


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## Clayton Taffy

This beautiful boy is pulling a marathon vehicle witch has disc breaks on it.
This rig also passed the safety check.
As I have said before I am being very critical of harnessing for this thread.

I would raise the breeching at least one hole possibly two. The breast collar and the saddle look very well adjusted. 

The horse looks put to the vehicle very nicely, not sloppy at all.


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## Clayton Taffy

Done for now just lost 3 posts , I want to throw computer against the wall now.


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## churumbeque

clippityclop said:


> ^^^This is what happens to me with new harnesses - they never make one that fits the horse I need to fit - the saddle might fit right, but the breeching is way too big for my horse's rear or vice versa....
> 
> I hang mine, I lay it on a barrel (as if it was on a horse) and sometimes I put it in a bag and it still never holds its shape - my fault mostly - I don't mess with it enough to keep it supple. I drive in spurts - sometimes every week, sometimes not for months.


 Part of the problem is the quality. When you get into the nicer harness' they fit better, have more adjustments and are more supple.


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## Clayton Taffy

This mini donkey passed the safety check.

This little guy doesn’t have breeching at all, but has thimbles. Thimbles are little cups on the end of the shafts that stop the shafts from advancing when the equine stops. Here they are attached to the turrets on the saddle, I don’t think that is correct, I believe they should be connected to the saddle itself, I don’t think the turrets are strong enough, but I am not sure.

This cart also has tug stops, explained in link below. If you look at the tug stops on this rig the protrusions on the tug stops are in front of the shaft tugs, this does nothing to stop the cart. If the animal stops the protrusions on the tug stop need to be behind the shaft tugs to be able to stop the cart.

This thimble tug stop combo is usually used on fine harness horses in a ring, Hackney ponies, Roadster ponies, Saddlebreads etc. Or in this case very small minis. I would not recommend it for any cross country driving at all.

This little guy is also using an over check, where this *may* have some purpose as a training aid, it needs to be removed or at least loosened as soon as possible. Use a side check if a check rein must be used.


http://horse-n-driver.com/blog/vehicle/tug-stops/


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## Clayton Taffy

This draft is harnessed beautifully.
He is not sloppy in the shafts at all.
The harness fits well, the breeching is at a good height, and the breast collar is good. The shafts don't follow exactly the traces but if you went down one hole they would be too low, better too high than too low.

If there was a criticism, again I am being very critical, I prefer a full noseband, and the throatlatch looks too tight. 

I would try to find a heavier harness, just for looks on such a big horse. Again, "use what you have till you get what you want"

He was a gorgeous horse.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm

Thanks so much for this, I am totally new to driving, I am working with my mini on it! I don't know much about the hook-up, so Thanks again!


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## Clayton Taffy

This breeching is a bit low, I would raise it one hole maybe two, you want the breeching about 4-5 inches below the point of the rump, less for minis. 
The hip straps are in perfect position at the top of the croup, not always possible with all harnesses or horses, but it needs to be as close as possible. 
The shafts are well behind the point of the shoulder, and when in draft as he is now the breeching is not loose or droopy behind. The breast collar looks good. The horse is not sloppy in the shafts at all.
The crupper looks loose, see how you can see a lot of daylight under the tail, but above the crupper, but, Arabs can be deceiving in this area because of their high tail carriage.
The saddle looks a bit too far forward, see how the top of the saddle is tilting backwards and the bottom is tilting forwards and it looks a bit up on the withers, but it also cold be the fact that the Arab has a round barrel, and it is put on that that way to avoid the boys belly.


Again I am being overly critical for informational purposes, if I saw this horse harnessed, which I did, I would not look twice at it, in regards to improper harnessing. Pilgrims photo is coming up soon, so I can critique his harnessing mistakes.


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## Clayton Taffy

This is what I mean by sloppy in the shafts.
I was trying this vehicle out to possibly buy one like it. I took a lesson right before this photo was taken. My harness was not set up for this type of vehicle and I was not sure how to hook it up, so I hired a professional to hook up and give "P" his first drive in a marathon vehicle. Well we were not hooked as well as I would have liked in hindsight, but we would have passed the safty inspection.

What is stopping the vehicle is it the breeching or the shaft tugs? The shaft tugs are not meant to have that kind of forward pull, they are meant to have downward pressure, and look at the traces they are so droopy I am embarassed, not really, but they are way too loose. I should be using something called trace carriers that come from the end ring of the breecing and carry the traces so they do not droop so bad when using a vehicle with a low singletree. Even with brakes on a vehicle, this, I feel is too sloppy.

So when I mention sloppy in the shafts remember this photo!

Zilco trace carrier from Advanced Equine Products


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## Clayton Taffy

I should say how I would correct the above harness job.

#1 I feel the horse is plenty close to the vehicle so shortening the traces I would not do, yet.

#2 I would tighten the breeching by one or two holes or one wrap, will get into that when we harness thread, but anyhow needs to be tightened.

#3 Defiantly get trace carriers, way too dangerous now, could get a leg over the trace, bad idea.

#4 If all that fails try shortening the trace one hole.


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