# Stallion Kills Foal *video*



## Beau Baby

I'm thinking either the foal wasn't his or maybe the foal was sick or somethign. IT seemed like the foal couldn't get up at all. What i wanna know is why the mare just left the foal.


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## Spastic_Dove

If you watch the rest of that documentary, the foal was sick and couldn't stand up. It had been quite awhile since the birth if I remember right and the dam and the other mares had tried to get the foal up. 
The stallion was known to be aggressive and the documentarians were all pretty shocked by the whole thing. 

Dont know how normal it is for a stallion to pick up and kill a foal by the neck but it makes sense if you think about it


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## Rissa

It's the CIIIIIIRCCCCLE OF LIIIIIIFEEEE.

I've seen the whole thing. The foal has been down for hours after it was born.

It was crippled, or sick.

In nature, only the fittest survive. Nature doesn't keep things going with medicine like we do.

I believe in the grand scheme of things being killed by that stallion beats slowly starving to death scared and alone as the herd moved on. Or dragged away by a scavenger to be eaten.

You say he WAS a gorgeous stallion. Has something happened to that herd? Is he dead?


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## reining girl

that is so sad, but like you said rissa, its better to have that done then starve to death or carried off by preadators, the stud just put the baby out of its missery. still sad though =(


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## reining girl

i watched on animal palnet or the discovery channel, it was a zebra mare with her foal, and they were being attcked by heyenas(?) and the mare could do nothing for the foal cuz she was way outnumbered so she kicked it in the head so it wouldnt be rip to shreds while it was still alive buy the stupid heyens.


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## reining girl

i dont know the more i watch the more i think the stud did that cuz it wasnt his foal. i hate that


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## RedRoan

I know about stupid owners having stallions to close to their mares and foals in their neighboring pasture.

Two cases I know personally of geldings picking up foals by their neck and trying to pull them over the fence. Not a fun day at all when that happens.


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## angelsgrace

it's so sad but he was doing the right thing in sort but sad i would have thought that they would have just bitten the wind pipe and it would be quick


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## Tayz

Yes, I agree that was sad.
It's a huge debate whether it was right or wrong.
From one angle, it is right If the foal couldn't move and would have had a slow and painful death.
On the other angle, it was wrong if the stallion killed it just because It wasn't his...


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## bexandponies

The stallion killed the foal due to the fact the foal could not walk, rather than have the foal killed by predators he put it out of its misery. This is natural and happens all the time in the wild and also in domesticated animals..... mother dogs will eat a sick/deformed pup.

this stallion was not being cruel, he was only doing what nature intended him to do


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## manhirwen

Listening to it, the mother and that herd left and another herd moved in and that stallion killed it. So the father stallion's name is Boomer and the Stallion who killed the foal was named Looking Glass. It seems Looking glass killed the foal because it wasn't his but Boomers herd left it there because it's back legs weren't working.


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## Rissa

I remember streaming this entire show on the 'net somewhere long ago. After a heated argument happened on another horse forum. Just over that clip.

I am certain I remember the narrator talking about how the foal had been down for a long time. It may have been the other stallions foal but there was also something not right with it.


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## RoosterDo

I believe this is from Clould stallion of the Rockies, and the stallion killed the crippled foal so the herd would move on they didn't want to leave the baby even though he would never get up. I bought the series on amazon for 30 bucks I think its really interesting to see the mustangs and how they act. It also covers the round-ups.


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## smrobs

I won't venture a guess on why he killed it but that still made me almost sick to my stomach. { I figure that it was probably best for the foal because there was something wrong with it but it is still sad.

On a lighter note, Looking Glass was just drop dead gorgeous. ''''''


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## bgood400

If you turn your computers volume all the way up you can hear it. The foal couldnt stand because there was something wrong with its hind legs. A stallion that was not its father is the one that killed it.


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## manhirwen

So both points were right. Something was wrong with the foal AND it was a stallion that was not it's father who killed it.


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## masatisan

I saw this program on PBS under the title "Nature." As I recall the foal was unable to stand and the stallion who killed it wasn't the father. 

Stallions will kill any foals that that come from competing stallions because it would be a threat to their lines and more compitition for their own offspring in the future. It often happens when the stallions steal mares that have foals. So, even if the foal was healthy, Looking Glass would have killed it anyway.


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## Trissacar

That was utterly sickening.


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## Cat

That is nature for you. If the foal's hind legs would have been working properly that other stallion probably never would have gotten close enough to it to kill it. Like she said at the end of the clip - he actually did that foal a favor. Yes, the death was brutal, but it was quick. Better than laying the grass starving or having predators eat on him while he is still alive.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

I have seen this clip time and time again. The stallion was doing what nature told him to do: to kill the weak, keep the strong. The foal had been struggling for hours to rise and could not do so. The strongest survive, that is the tough fact of life. It is sickening to watch (it made my stomach drop the first time I saw it) but its nature at it's best...


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## NicoleS11

my stomach just turned froms seeing that. Thats discusting. But its true i rather see the foal go out that way then just being left there. Growing up we had a very aggresive stud. My mom would always tell me to stay far away from him. One day he got out and killed one of out yearlings.


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## Trinity

I rememeber watching the whole show at a friends house. Its pretty sad...
But, I have to side with the stallion. He did the foal a favour, the baby couldnt stand.


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## MacabreMikolaj

There is absolutely no such thing as "right" and "wrong" when it comes to animals. That foal got the absolute most humane death he possibly could have had, and don't kid yourself that death wasn't coming in some size shape or form, all of them a lot more brutal then that.

It's only human weakness that gives us this attitude that everything should be saved. Life and death are part of life, and only the fittest SHOULD survive. Unfortunately, this is an adage we've all but forgotten as humans in our desperate belief that everything should live, regardless of the pain and suffering it may endure.

To be honest, I found it fascinating. I'd have expected a horse to paw/kick something to death, I didn't realize that as a prey animal, they do appear to have knowledge of vulnerable spots resulting in death, as he clearly went for the spine/throat area. Very interesting to learn new things about animals!


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## Shawneen

I can't bring myself to watch this. I am too much a sucker for animals and I am haunted daily of the ordeal I went through when our gelding broke his leg. I just can't even imagine this...


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## Kentucky

MacabreMikolaj said:


> There is absolutely no such thing as "right" and "wrong" when it comes to animals. That foal got the absolute most humane death he possibly could have had, and don't kid yourself that death wasn't coming in some size shape or form, all of them a lot more brutal then that.
> 
> It's only human weakness that gives us this attitude that everything should be saved. Life and death are part of life, and only the fittest SHOULD survive. Unfortunately, this is an adage we've all but forgotten as humans in our desperate belief that everything should live, regardless of the pain and suffering it may endure.
> 
> To be honest, I found it fascinating. I'd have expected a horse to paw/kick something to death, I didn't realize that as a prey animal, they do appear to have knowledge of vulnerable spots resulting in death, as he clearly went for the spine/throat area. Very interesting to learn new things about animals!


 
While I agree with you to a point. that attitude when can be taken to far exspecially if applied to humans. yes I know that is not what you said or meant. And a horse should know where it's weakest spots are, it came protect them and attacks amother horse. it was a stallion that fights other stallions.


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## NorthernMama

I find this very interesting. I am not revolted or sickened, but very surprised. I have never heard of a horse behaving that way -- biting and tossing as a dog would kill a rabbit, however if you think of two stallions fighting, teeth and necks are always involved. The stallion obviously saw this foal as a threat and dealt with it accordingly. Because of the lack of strength in the foal, it never had a chance of course and because of it's "deformity" the mare had already abandoned it as a lost cause.


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## Equus_girl

Oh, that is so sad - poor little foal. But I do agree it was the best thing that could have happened if its legs were deformed and it wouldn't have survived anyway. I was also surprised that the stallion went for the throat - I expected him to paw or kick it.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Kentucky said:


> While I agree with you to a point. that attitude when can be taken to far exspecially if applied to humans. yes I know that is not what you said or meant. And a horse should know where it's weakest spots are, it came protect them and attacks amother horse. it was a stallion that fights other stallions.


Horses will go for the "weak" spots, which are not neccesarily kill spots. When a stallion fights another stallion, he looks for pressure points to force the other stallion to give. Death is rarely the intent in prey animals, they merely want to push the other to physical limits which eventually lead to fleeing the fight. So yes, I DO find it odd that a stallion seemed to know where to go for the "death" spot. Prey animals are flight or fight animals - hence, they rarely display the "control" you see in predators during confrontation. Prey animals don't typically have any need to possess knowledge of ways to kill, the entire animal type is based on either fleeing, or fighting until they CAN flee, or the other gives up.

And yes, whatever you're thinking probably IS what I meant. I stand by my opinions, and am usually seen as cold hearted, but that's simply the way I am. I think we waste a ridiculous amount of resources on both humans and animals that have absolutely no quality of life just because we're to selfish to let them go. I'm not referring to cancer patients, I'm referring to the old woman who lays in her bed drooling, covered in bed sores, suffering every day who gets zapped to life everytime she crashes because somehow we justify that human life trumps human suffering. That was my intended point with my commentary.


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## 1dog3cats17rodents

MacabreMikolaj said:


> There is absolutely no such thing as "right" and "wrong" when it comes to animals. That foal got the absolute most humane death he possibly could have had, and don't kid yourself that death wasn't coming in some size shape or form, all of them a lot more brutal then that.
> 
> It's only human weakness that gives us this attitude that everything should be saved. Life and death are part of life, and only the fittest SHOULD survive. Unfortunately, this is an adage we've all but forgotten as humans in our desperate belief that everything should live, regardless of the pain and suffering it may endure.
> 
> To be honest, I found it fascinating. I'd have expected a horse to paw/kick something to death, I didn't realize that as a prey animal, they do appear to have knowledge of vulnerable spots resulting in death, as he clearly went for the spine/throat area. Very interesting to learn new things about animals!


 
Thank you! Exactly how I feel, but much written much better, and I'm too much of a scardey cat to post this:lol:


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## BluMagic

This video is from Cloud: Stallion of the Rockies. I believe I posted it along with other videos awhile back. I believe this stallion ran Cloud's band off and this foal couldn't stand quite yet. And because it wasn't his foal, he killed it. Not out of the ordinary.. I agree that this was one of the best ways for the foal to die..


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## DarkEquine

I was surprised too at how he went for the throat like that? I kept expecting it to be stamped to death. I almost threw up when I saw the poor thing's legs swinging in the air...


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## Mira

Maybe this is wrong, I know it's interfering with nature and all that, but if I was a documentarian person there... I'd have had a heck of a time just sitting and watching that. Right or wrong, I'd probably have tried to scare the rest off and attempted to save baby.  Smart thing to do? I dunno. I think in that situation though, it'd be pretty hard to resist.


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## welshpony15

I was a little scared to click the 'play' button before this video in fear of what I would see, but really, whether it is right or wrong is completely irrelevant- its nature, and its always going to happen. As much as it isnt pleasant to see anything come to its death, I tend to agree that it was best for the foal in sooo many ways. Whether that stallion did it for his own benefit or the foals doesnt matter, because as others have already said, these are wild animals and they deal with things the way mother nature intended them too.


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## Kentucky

welshpony15 said:


> I was a little scared to click the 'play' button before this video in fear of what I would see, but really, whether it is right or wrong is completely irrelevant- its nature, and its always going to happen. As much as it isnt pleasant to see anything come to its death, I tend to agree that it was best for the foal in sooo many ways. Whether that stallion did it for his own benefit or the foals doesnt matter, because as others have already said, these are wild animals and they deal with things the way mother nature intended them too.


I agree 100%. we try to put our human morals on animals too often or some people try to put humans on the level of animals, ie we are just animals and what we do doesn't morally matter, it is in our genes or because we were made to do it becuase of something like some movie I watched or any other excuse that person can think up.


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## Lori1983

Good point. ^ I actually watched this on PBS last yearish? Anyhow, of course when you watch it, it's horrible and sickening. And yes, I felt all the emotions already described...I was irrationally angry at the stallion, thinking it wasn't "right" for him to kill a foal just because it wasn't his (which may be part of why he killed the foal, besides the obvious deformity). But when reason overtakes emotion, you have to understand that horses do not, and should not, adhere to human morals. I think we all tend to anthropomorphise our animals to an extent. It's mainly harmless, but I think a lot of the frustration we have when we're dealing with our animals is simply because we expect them to act and think and feel like we do.

Interesting conversation, even if the video's sad.


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## MacabreMikolaj

It reminds me of the time when my grandpa's big Anglo-Arab gelding kicked his prize stallion to death. They were in the barn, Karasma in his box stall as usual and a mare came into heat. Now, this subject has always been debated - my grandpa swears my dad didn't latch the door properly, my dad swears he did. Regardless, when Karasma got out and into the aisleway which was quite narrow, the way the door swung open trapped him behind Day-V who was in a standing stall.

Needless to say, by the time they found Karasma, he had to be euthanized. How can you possibly be mad at Day-V for doing what he did? I guess it may be a natural reaction to put human emotion into it, but it was also a natural reaction for a gelding to protect himself from a stallion.

I actually know people who have shipped horses for doing things like this. I find it absolutely ridiculous. You can't blame an animal for doing what comes naturally.


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## draftlover215

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Horses will go for the "weak" spots, which are not neccesarily kill spots. When a stallion fights another stallion, he looks for pressure points to force the other stallion to give. Death is rarely the intent in prey animals, they merely want to push the other to physical limits which eventually lead to fleeing the fight. So yes, I DO find it odd that a stallion seemed to know where to go for the "death" spot. Prey animals are flight or fight animals - hence, they rarely display the "control" you see in predators during confrontation. Prey animals don't typically have any need to possess knowledge of ways to kill, the entire animal type is based on either fleeing, or fighting until they CAN flee, or the other gives up.
> 
> And yes, whatever you're thinking probably IS what I meant. I stand by my opinions, and am usually seen as cold hearted, but that's simply the way I am. I think we waste a ridiculous amount of resources on both humans and animals that have absolutely no quality of life just because we're to selfish to let them go. I'm not referring to cancer patients, I'm referring to the old woman who lays in her bed drooling, covered in bed sores, suffering every day who gets zapped to life everytime she crashes because somehow we justify that human life trumps human suffering. That was my intended point with my commentary.


Can I hug you?! I agree with everything you've said, including how fascinating it is that he understood exactly where to go to kill the foal. It may have to do with the fact that as a prey animal he understands what is vulnerable for attack on himself. All prey animals will protect their most vulnerable areas (it's why some horses dislike being hugged around the neck!) 

And as for your comment about human life, as an EMT who worked transport EMS and 911, I fully understand and appreciate your way of thinking. I've seen too much unnecessary suffering for purely selfish reasons on behalf of the person in charge of simply signing a DNR (Do Not Resucitate) form and letting their loved one die with some respect. I hated not having that simple piece of paper, and having to try to bring someone back who had absolutly 0 quality of life. It sucks.


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## Kentucky

I understand and agree with what draftlover215 is saying but when I replied with what I said I was thinking about people who take that to an extreme and use it to kill any certain groups for what ever there reason they choice, and I didn't want to call you something that wasn't true. I know end of life issues are tricky issues to deal with for everyone involved.


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## my2geldings

It's really sad to see it happening. You can see that poor foal was just coming apart but you can never second guess why they do it. A lot of mammals kill their young ones if they are ill.

The stud maybe it was a colt that he was already seeing as something he wanted no part of in the herd. Either way, horses are not naturally nasty. There is a reason why that poor foal was killed.


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## DarkEquine

A lot of species practice infanticide as a way of preserving their own bloodlines. Young male lions without a pride will come into an established pride, chase out/kill the existing older lion and kill all his offspring. This includes young cubs and young males whom haven't left the pride yet.
Wolves and dingoes also practice infanticide. The lead or "alpha" female will kill all the subordinate female's pups, so that her own litter have a better chance of survival.

It sounds horrible but theres a grain of logic there. Nature is nature, emotion is a human invention.


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## MacabreMikolaj

draftlover215 said:


> Can I hug you?! I agree with everything you've said, including how fascinating it is that he understood exactly where to go to kill the foal. It may have to do with the fact that as a prey animal he understands what is vulnerable for attack on himself. All prey animals will protect their most vulnerable areas (it's why some horses dislike being hugged around the neck!)
> 
> And as for your comment about human life, as an EMT who worked transport EMS and 911, I fully understand and appreciate your way of thinking. I've seen too much unnecessary suffering for purely selfish reasons on behalf of the person in charge of simply signing a DNR (Do Not Resucitate) form and letting their loved one die with some respect. I hated not having that simple piece of paper, and having to try to bring someone back who had absolutly 0 quality of life. It sucks.


That's a good point about knowing due to being a prey animal. I guess it's different with a small animal? It makes me curious if they'd do the same thing to a wolf for instance if they had a chance, but perhaps they're aware that the neck is also located by the sharp pointy teeth and it's to much of a risk? It never ceases to amaze me what comes as instinct to animals.

And I have to applaud you for your career choice. You have a stronger constitution then I do, I could NEVER do that. I just couldn't be that person who zaps someone back to life after listening to them pleading for death. I think my absolute worst fear is becoming a parapelegic and being forced to live because I was unable to take my own life, and it's against the law for anyone to help me. Obviously that's not saying all parapelegics want to die, but I think if it's your choice it's YOUR choice. I suppose I can somewhat understand why suicide and assisted suicide is illegal, but at the same time, it makes me feel just horrible rage that even your own LIFE isn't yours anymore. If you're not the sort of person who wants to live the next 10 years in excruiciating agony, how on earth is it justifible to order you to live?

Cruelty comes in many forms, in my opinion. At least animals are smart enough to end agony, or have it ended for them, as horrible as we may think it is. We're also the same population that actually thinks dwarf Mini's are cute and HYPP isn't a problem. I swear, we have a common sense nerve block when it comes to animals sometimes, as we think it's a GOOD thing to breed weak animals apparently. THEY'RE SO KYOOT! *rolls eyes*

(Not everyone of course, just a general consensus, LOL!)


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## Kentucky

Cruelty comes in many forms, in my opinion. At least animals are smart enough to end agony, or have it ended for them, as horrible as we may think it is. We're also the same population that actually thinks dwarf Mini's are cute and HYPP isn't a problem. I swear, we have a common sense nerve block when it comes to animals sometimes, as we think it's a GOOD thing to breed weak animals apparently. THEY'RE SO KYOOT! *rolls eyes*

That is very true and I applaud you for saying it, and it is something to think about for breeders.


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## DixiesPaintedNova

Mira said:


> Maybe this is wrong, I know it's interfering with nature and all that, but if I was a documentarian person there... I'd have had a heck of a time just sitting and watching that. Right or wrong, I'd probably have tried to scare the rest off and attempted to save baby.  Smart thing to do? I dunno. I think in that situation though, it'd be pretty hard to resist.


Ya but to interfere with that is in a sense disturbing nature. Most likely the baby would've died anyways. Plus its a law to not interfere, kinda like when you're at the beach and you can't help the baby seaturtles back to sea and you have to watch them get picked off by predators. Basically if you were to help every single sea turtle or animal from trouble there would be an overflow of animals. Thats why they have a bag limit for hunting and whatnot.

Boomer kinda reminded me of a friesan for some reason. And looking glass was drop dead gorgeous.


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## brookelovesparelli

I can't watch it (by choice) *big softy here* but it is just the 'circle of life' & in the wild it happens.  R.I.P. lil sick foal


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## tempest

masatisan said:


> Stallions will kill any foals that that come from competing stallions because it would be a threat to their lines and more compitition for their own offspring in the future. It often happens when the stallions steal mares that have foals. So, even if the foal was healthy, Looking Glass would have killed it anyway.


Not exactly true. Not all stallions will kill foals out of different stallions. Some do and some don't. New blood is good in a band, even if it is from a stallion's competition. Herd stallions understand that. But there is the idea of only the strong surviving, so if the foal was indeed sick or had something wrong with it, the stallion had every reason to kill it.


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## Saddlebag

Mature males sometimes kill offspring to bring the female back in to heat.


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## Speed Racer

Saddlebag said:


> Mature males sometimes kill offspring to bring the female back in to heat.


That happens with predators, not prey. Lions and other big cats are known for that, not horses.

Prey animal females come back into season usually right after they give birth, which is why many mares are bred back on their foal heats. Stallions generally have no issues with young foals, whether or not they're of their own bloodline.


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## Hidalgo13

A while ago at my barn, a mare had a foal and one day they were in a pasture, and in the pasture next door was a boarders stallion, and he somehow got through the fencing and tried to kill the foal but the mother tried to protect her baby and ended up getting kicked somewhere in the stomach and dying from internal injuries. (


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## Pidge

To all the wild crazy ideas floating around I actually own the documentary this clip comes from. Anyone who has heard of the cremello mustang cloud made famous by the breyer model made of him and documentaries about him and his heard would recognize this clip.

The stud seen was from a different herd...if my memory isnt failing me the herds all shared one drinking location but came at different times of the day to prevent fighting anmongst the studs (wild horses are so smart) and this occured while they were traveling to the water? The herd the foal was from had just finished drinking and the foal had been born with a hip deformity that prevented it from being able to stand...it would have died anyway.

When the next herd arrived the mare stayed around as long as she possible could but eventually had no choice but to move on with her herd, thats why she left. The other herds mares investigated and even encouraged the foal to stand but it didnt happen. the theories regarding why the stud killed the foal are that he could sense something was wrong with it and thusly killed it because it would have died anyway.

The herd the foal was from actually stayed near by and watched and after the herd with the killer stallion moved on the mare went back down to investigate her foal, know for certain it was dead, then moved on with her herd.

Now I doubt I recalled that perfectly so I would suggest anyone more curious about this should simply watch the documentary themselves. Its quite educational about wild horses.


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## Can He Star

awwwk


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## MacabreMikolaj

I know this is old, but I feel it necessary to point out that the vast majority of predators that found this foal wouldn't even bother killing it - they'd just eat it alive. Why waste energy killing something when it's asking to be eaten? The stallion easily did this foal a favor, and I wouldn't have nice things to say about any cameraman who interfered.


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## Can He Star

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I know this is old, but I feel it necessary to point out that the vast majority of predators that found this foal wouldn't even bother killing it - they'd just eat it alive. Why waste energy killing something when it's asking to be eaten? The stallion easily did this foal a favor, and I wouldn't have nice things to say about any cameraman who interfered.


 true .....


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## pintophile

I haven't yet read all the replies, but this entire debate just made me :rofl: I love how we're having a discussion on moral values and whether or not it was right of the stallion to kill this foal. It's a horse. They have no idea what right or wrong even _is_. 

JEEZUS! That was a brutal death. Honestly though, I found it a lot sadder and more disturbing trying to watch the foal get up...and fall...repeatedly...than I did watching the stallion attack it.


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## MaddyMatt2002

I work on a big Standardbred breeding farm as the foal watcher. I have seen babies take more than 8hrs to stand on their own. I've had to help them and steady them till they get it figured out and get strong enough. So if it has been as long as what I think it is since that baby has been born and still hasn't gotten up it wouldn't of been able to do it on his own. With this being a wild herd while it is terribly sad that stallion killed him it was what was best for the little tyke. He either would of starved to death or some animal would of killed and eaten him.


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## QH Gunner

I just saw this... I know its old but I guess in a way its sad, or we could look at it as a favor. We'll never know. On a different not (& i'm sure i"ll get hell for this) the stallion I have, is best friends with his colt. Since i got them, t7hey've always been stalled next to eachother, & pastured. The baby hurt his foot & couldnt go out for a week, the stallion would lead me over their & check on him & groom him everyday over the stall. They are now pastured with eachother, the baby ponys with him on our rides around the farm. The stallion gets upset & angry if the baby isnt with us. If i do put him out with other horses the stallion watches him like a hawk & gets upset if someone picks on him. Now, I dont kow how this stud in the video was, but I'm gonna just believe (in seeing my own stallion & baby) theat he was doing the foal a favor. It was so sad to see that the foal couldnt et up. Nature knows better then we do tho.


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