# Help I need a saddle



## RedFilly83 (Jul 22, 2018)

I live in an area that’s pretty isolated and there are no nearby saddle shops or saddle makers. I have a 6 year old Gypsian mare and can’t find a saddle. I ordered a Wintec Synthetic FQHB 18” western saddle that was too long and too wide. Then I ordered a Hilason Treeless Endurance saddle with pad thinking that it would definitely fit but i couldn’t find a small enough cinch to fit (the front rigging dee’s are located very low on the saddle). I can’t get the cinch tightened enough to even mount her without the saddle rolling. I know both the saddles I ordered were cheaper, but they had good return policies which I needed that in order to try them out. Does anyone else have a Gypsian that understand the type of back I’m trying to fit???


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi, I don't have a Gypsian - do you mean a Gypsy Cob? If not, I don't know what they are even.

Yes, Western saddles of a decent seat size - 18" is very big - are very often too long for shorter backed horses. So if you need a big seat, yeah either treeless or an English style would likely be necessary. I will post a diagram pic showing where the saddle should be in relation to the skeleton so you can work out how long a saddle can be for her. Note the yellow line I drew on the back of the scapula is a cartilage extension & the saddle tree much clear that too, with some to spare, because the scapula also moves backwards at the top when the horse extends it's leg. The weightbearing portion of the saddle should not extend much if at all onto the lumbar spine either.

Treeless saddles should not be done up too tightly, and having no internal frame, may well slide if you mount from the ground by trying to step up with weight on one stirrup. *Not that it's good for a horse to hang off one side of a treed saddle either. If you can't 'bounce up', whether with a treed or treeless, you should use a mounting block.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Gypsians are apparently a thing! Never heard of them before. Gypsy/Friesian cross. 

Gypsian Registration & Rules


----------



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Wow! I looked them up; very neat!! On a side note, not that I’m much a treeless fan or even have any experience with them, you can get really short cinches. I ordered one for my English saddle that was so short I ended up using it to teach a weanling to carry a saddle.


----------



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Oh, sorry, I see western now. Still, I also own a very short little mohair cinch we used for the pony. They make them.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

You can get 26" or shorter western cinches for ponies. My Paso Fino uses a 28" western and I've had no trouble finding them online.

You may want to consider an Australian saddle with the serge/stuffed panels. I had to go this route to find a saddle that was large enough for my seat but still short enough for my little horse's back.


----------



## RedFilly83 (Jul 22, 2018)

This is my girl


----------



## RedFilly83 (Jul 22, 2018)

I tried a 24” cinch with the treeless endurance saddle and still I could put any weight in the stirrup without it rolling.


----------



## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

RedFilly83 said:


> This is my girl



Just wanted to say WOW, she's beautiful!


----------



## RedFilly83 (Jul 22, 2018)

Thank you!! There aren’t a lot of them out there so I don’t know who to ask for info on saddle and training.


----------



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Maybe just the treeless saddle isn’t going to work? She looks like she doesn’t have much for withers to hold the saddle on. I am sure if you live in a place with a saddle fitter they will know what to tell you for tree size.


----------



## QueenofFrance08 (May 16, 2017)

You can get smaller cinches than 24 even, they're usually considered "pony cinches" but they work on horses with dropped rigging saddles. A lot of western style endurance saddles have the low rigging including mine. I have a 20 inch Woolback cinch I use with mine and I have much narrower horses than yours.


----------



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Definitely @QueenofFrance08! I own a 10” mohair cinch. It is the cutest little thing you’ve ever seen and worked great for the Shetland. They come in all sizes, you just have to look.


----------



## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

That is... a nice combination. I am all but drowning in cobs over here - all beautiful with their markings. But she takes it to another level!


----------



## RedFilly83 (Jul 22, 2018)

Thanks everyone. I will look for a smaller cinch and then possibly add a breast collar too for additional staying power. It would probably be easier to find an English saddle that would fit her but western is what I’m most comfortable in.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

RedFilly83 said:


> I tried a 24” cinch with the treeless endurance saddle and still I could put any weight in the stirrup without it rolling.


Which may be absolutely nothing to do with the girth being tight enough - as said, trees without frames aren't really designed to be stable with weight only on one side of them. You need to use a mounting block & NOT put your weight in a stirrup when getting on/off.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

RedFilly83 said:


> It would probably be easier to find an English saddle that would fit her but western is what I’m most comfortable in.


Yeah, sometimes you just have to suck it up - the horse's comfort is the most important factor in saddle fit... if you care about them & want them staying sound under you. But I think someone already mentioned, Aussie Stock saddle could be just the ticket - built on an English tree & style, so shorter for the horse, in relation to seat size, but with deeper seat & poleys for added security...


----------



## ladygodiva1228 (Sep 5, 2012)

I have a Gypsy Cob/Haflinger cross and the only saddle I was able to find that fit her perfect was this one. https://www.horsesaddleshop.com/abetta-serenity-endurance.html She is mutton withered with a short, wide, flat back. I had tried a couple of treeless saddles and they just didn't sit right on her. I also tried an aussie one and that was a no go. When she was at the trainers they used a Duett on her which fit nicely, but I don't ride English. Just needed something for trail riding. I even tried my mom's Western Wintec, but it sat funny on her. Some horses are so hard to fit. Good luck.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Pretty mare!! 

I had to change to treeless to fit my Rocky Mountain gelding. He has short back, forward girth groove and mutton withers. 

I tried many different saddles before going to treeless, including having a custom saddle made for him. None of them worked. 

Treeless saddles have to be fitted to the horse similar to a treed saddle, however they are a lot more adjustable. 

IMO the brand of treeless you tried is not a quality saddle. 

After trying many brands and styles, the one that worked best for me and my horse was a Barefoot saddle and the Black Forest saddles. They work great and although it is best to use a mounting block, one can mount from the ground in one if done correctly.


----------



## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

FWIW a dressage saddle makes a wonderful trail saddle also. I use one for 20 years. 
My treed saddle now is a Tucker Plantation. I think it's sort of a cross between English and western. It's a very comfy saddle and not too long...or heavy. I also have a Black Forest treeless. I do like it a lot EXCEPT it's best to use a mounting block or a log , big rock or stump if you have to dismount on the trail and want to get back on, unless you are really springy and can jump. It's also not great if your horse is reactionary, if you get my drift.


----------



## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Dustbunny said:


> FWIW a dressage saddle makes a wonderful trail saddle also.


Agreed! I don't do dressage, I'd say my 'style' is more 'western' than 'english', but due to saddle styles I'd prefer just not fitting my horse, he has a Wintec dressage & I love it. Only prob is lack of D rings, for attaching saddlebags - I had to pull it apart & put some on myself.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Dustbunny said:


> FWIW a dressage saddle makes a wonderful trail saddle also. I use one for 20 years.
> My treed saddle now is a Tucker Plantation. I think it's sort of a cross between English and western. It's a very comfy saddle and not too long...or heavy. I also have a Black Forest treeless. I do like it a lot EXCEPT it's best to use a mounting block or a log , big rock or stump if you have to dismount on the trail and want to get back on, unless you are really springy and can jump. It's also not great if your horse is reactionary, if you get my drift.


I'm not springy anymore, and my horse is reactionary, but the treeless stays put :smile: 

How to mount from the ground in a Barefoot saddle, filmed in my pasture. Read the description for instructions







And from my mounting block:


----------

