# Why will a horse do a backflip?



## horsecv

Hey guys, just looking at some videos online and have seen more than once a horse doing a backflip without any provocation. 

For example here:






Why does a horse do this? how do you avoid it? If it happens,is there a way to avoid getting crushed ?


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## horsecv

Holy... this guy is a ninja


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## Zeke

Have you been seeking out "backing flips" in horses? That's normally referred to as a rear, albeit a rear gone very wrong. 

This isn't a typical behavior for horses, not like the movies make it out to be. It's typically a behavior a horse may do to avoid doing something such as riding or moving forward but I should stress, especially if you're new to horses that it's not too common. 

Ways to avoid it would be not riding a horse that is known to rear and be aware of tense situations in which your horse may become spooked or upset and possibly cause it to rear. I've heard not to pull/lean back during a rear as to not cause your horse to go over backwards like the video you posted, meaning shift your weight forward with your upper body instead. I'm luckily not an expert in riding through rears though.


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## stevenson

a rearing horse can lose balance and fall over. It is very dangerous. A horse that rears could be in pain, in fear, avoiding forward movement, being mishandled by its rider. 
How to avoid it .. dont ride a horse that is known to rear. If you have a horse that rears, have it Vet checked, after that, send it to a qualified trainer.


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## AnrewPL

That horse was showing signs of what it was going to do, the rider just didn’t pick up on them. It can happen when you are inexperienced. Happened to me once. One of my own horses, I trained her and had her out on her first day of actual work on cattle. I had to keep a mob of cattle blocked up on a dam and wait for others to bring more cattle along before we moved the lot of them. While I was sitting there on my horse, the cattle were quiet so I figured I’d practice backing her up (should have just left her to have a moment of peace and quiet instead). I was impatient, and didn’t time anything very well, her feet stuck and I got a bit cranky and handled it completely the wrong way and she threw herself straight over backwards on top of me, we both came down on a barbed wire fence. Thankfully the fence posts were ancient rotten wood and the wire was so old and rusty it all pretty much shattered when we hit it. I still ended up with a scarred up back and needed a new shirt, and the horse was fine thankfully. 
Point is though, What I did was wrong, I should have known better than to do what I did and let my frustration get in the way (and there was a pretty girly I kinda liked there too, and probably wanted to look like a tough guy or something, hay I was only 19 [19 year old boy: AKA complete moron]). And ultimately my inexperience came through strong, and justifiably, I looked like a complete tool in front to the pretty girl I kinda liked. And when I should have been listening to what the horse was telling me, I just shouted louder at the horse (shouted metaphorically).


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## horsecv

AnrewPL said:


> That horse was showing signs of what it was going to do, the rider just didn’t pick up on them. It can happen when you are inexperienced. ..... I got a bit cranky and handled it completely the wrong way


What signs was that horse showing?

What exactly did you do to "handle it completely the wrong way" ?


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## AnrewPL

Watch the video right at about 0:25, just as the horse comes back around to the right, watch its head. It might have been doing it walking away from the camera too, and it was starting to lose its alignment a little before that too on and off. My guess is that both the rider and the horse were probably a little green, that horse was wanting to get away from something. It doesn’t look like the rider was pulling hard or anything, she looked as though the rein actually had some looseness at a few points, (I don’t know jack about dressage so weather that’s good or bad I don’t know) but I’d say the horse didn’t like how she was putting contact on, timing, or amount, don’t know, but it didn’t like something going on there and it let her know, she just missed it.

What I did wrong. Firstly, I should have just let the horse alone for a while, it was the first time I had taken her for a day’s work, and she was young, and not in really good working condition yet, I put too much on her too fast; I had worked cattle on her just to get her used to it, but not a real days work, just easing her into it, but then I went from easing her into it straight to the big league as it were, and it was a mistake. Admittedly I was under a bit of pressure from the station manager to work the horse faster than I would have liked, but given that I should have be looking for chances to rest her at every opportunity, not take every opportunity to bug her some more with more training. Took me a while to learn to leave a horse alone and not bother it all the time.
Backing her up specifically, She was already getting overwhelmed given that it was turning out to be a bigger day than we expected, so when I was backing her and with me putting it on too hard and a bit fast, didn’t time my releases well at all and I wasn’t paying attention to what her feet were doing, much less timing what I was doing with them (probably trying to see if the girl was watching how cool I thought I was being, twit), I got frustrated and her feet stuck. Once her feet stuck, instead of doing something like pushing her back end around, or getting her to step about with her front end, or even walk forwards, in other words rather than get her feet unstuck, like an idiot, and out of frustration, and a bit of wanting to look like a tough cowboy type, I just tried to force her back. You ride by being in control of a horse’s feet, the bridal (in this case the hackamore) might be on the horse’s head, but it’s the feet that you need to handle, something I should have remembered. Anyway, with her feet stuck, to get away from the pull her head went up, then her front feet, then over she went. 
What I should have done instead. Firstly, not have ridden her that day in the first place, I had three other good going horses I could have ridden, Come to think of it she bucked and threw me that morning too, that was a crappy day. Secondly, given that I was kind of pushed into riding her by the boss I should have cut her some slack and not been on her case all day. Thirdly, her feet stuck, rookie mistake number 1 is to just pull back harder or more. I should have loosened her feet up with something lateral.


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## horsecv

AnrewPL said:


> Watch the video right at about 0:25, just as the horse comes back around to the right, watch its head. It might have been doing it walking away from the camera too, and it was starting to lose its alignment a little before that too on and off. My guess is that both the rider and the horse were probably a little green, that horse was wanting to get away from something. It doesn’t look like the rider was pulling hard or anything, she looked as though the rein actually had some looseness at a few points, (I don’t know jack about dressage so weather that’s good or bad I don’t know) but I’d say the horse didn’t like how she was putting contact on, timing, or amount, don’t know, but it didn’t like something going on there and it let her know, she just missed it.




What does it mean when a horse/rider is green?

Also, I'm looking back at the video, and the way the horse shakes its head like that- it seems like the horse I'm riding does that all the time to me?

However, the horse in the video flinches 3 times with it's whole body / lower body before it finally rears, I don't think I've ever experienced that.


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## AnrewPL

Yeah, plenty of horse will shake their head about for plenty of reasons; the horse in the video, that’s not just shaking its head about, and yeah the body wiggling is part of it with experience you learn to read things like that and tell the difference. If you go back a bit more you see its starting to come unstuck at about 0:13 then possibly again at about 0:19, not so bad but the signs are there.
Saying a horse or a rider are green is a way of saying that they are inexperienced. Probably referring to fruit, like a green apple compared to a ripe one. It’s not a bad thing, though lots of people who are called green would probably take it as an insult, it isn’t. I heard a saying once in relation to horses, particularly in relation to training horses, or learning to train them. I worked with a guy, who was an awesome trainer, he learned from some big name in Australia, who’s name I forget, anyway the guy I knew, Shane, said that this guy always said to him “if you are green you are growing, when you are ripe you are rotten”. Essentially means that you should try to always consider yourself “green” since you will always recognise that you can always learn more, and so probably will.


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## jaydee

Quite often its the rider that causes the backflip - the horse in that video was showing signs of resistance - hard to tell what but its mouth was gaping open just before it went up so it might even have got its tongue over the bit. These things happen so fast you don't always have time to do anything but throw yourself off with a plan to land clear of the horse
That rider might have had time to swing the horse sharply to the right as soon as it began to lighten its front end and that would have stopped the rear and hopefully defused the situation if it was just a case of the horse refusing to go forwards
Sometimes you can just push your weight against the horses neck and they'll go back down but leaning back on a horse that's not thinking what its doing is going to make it lose its balance and go over 
We had a grey pony that used to rear like it was some sort of a party trick - maybe someone had taught him to do it - but he was solid as a rock and never worried me


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## Kayella

He could have easily been in pain. That is one of the longest, weakest backs I've seen and it is painful just to look at. The rearing could have been evading pain or refusing a certain task or just frustration.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny

that horse didn't give a lot of warning, and it might not be as obvious to a new rider as it would be to a more experienced rider. the thing is, if you KNOW a horse will have going up as one of the first options it goes to when faced with something that makes it think it cannot/should not go forward, then you'd be looking for the slightest hint that it's starting to think that way, and you'd get it busy thinking about something else. 

But that horse gave very little warning. if it had done this before, then the rider might have read his head shaking, sucking back (not wanting to go forward) as leading in to him getting light in front (putting his weight onto his hind end in preperation for rearing.). But, if this was a first time, even an experienced rider might not have thought those "signs" were as serious as they turned out to be.

horses! never what you expect them to be.


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## Chiilaa

From 13 seconds on, that is when this horse lost his cool. Watch his head - note the way it starts to move a bit odd? Also watch the stride - the step becomes shorter, more tense. A rider that is in tune with the horse should have felt both these things, and started to avert the crisis at that point.


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## verona1016

Agreed, this rider should have known something was up. The video starts with the horse already in a walk and going into a free walk on two diagonals. In a free walk the rider gives the horse a longer rein (this is about the only time it's acceptable for the reins to have a noticeable "loop" or slack in them) and the horse should reach down and out, seeking contact. The rider isn't giving a whole lot of rein here, possibly because she knows the horse doesn't reach for the contact and she will therefore not have contact to control him if he gets out of hand (this is almost certainly not the first time this horse has reared!) 

As he approaches the far side of the arena by where the people are sitting his head goes up and he tenses- not sure if he is worried about the people or something else over there, or perhaps the rider has started to shorten the reins for the end of the free walk. As the horse turns to follow the arena boundary at F the horse is clearly resistant, and IMO this is where the rider did the wrong thing- she gives 2 sharp tugs on the left rein (probably an attempt to get his head down and back into "frame", but not tactfully done). This is what moved the horse from simply being resistant to rearing.


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## Ian McDonald

It's interesting, recently I had the opportunity along with a small crew to handle about 12-15 young, ranch-raised foals for their first time ever meeting humans. Most of them fell down or flipped over when they felt the pressure of the halters at first. We would hold their heads so that they wouldn't hit them on the ground when they fell because it happened a lot. It was very enlightening to see the responses of these un-touched horses, which evidently is to escape pressure that they don't understand and are upset by by whatever means necessary. The first instinct of the horse is flight, but if that is cut off then up they go. The solution would seem to be to get them confident going forward so that weight stays on the forehand.

Also, Paul aka endospink is a badass.


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## equitate

A horse going over backwards is a combination of a horse being in pain (action of bit on bars), and seeking to get away from it. Some horses will just step shorter, some will stop, some will back up, some will rear from the fear of pain. Imho it is what comes from precipitous longitudinal flexion/shortening the neck to get the appearance that the horse is accepting the bit. It is very dangerous when the horse is that desperate, and regaining trust is very difficult.


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## Kayty

And that is EXACTLY why I will not touch a reader with a 40 ft barge pole. If they want to go vertical it is so easy for them to flip, and I know one person who has been killed and another seriously disabled as a result of a horse coming down on them from a rear.

The video posted shows and incredibly tense horse. The entire video it is stepping short, showing a huge amount of tension particularly through its back and shoulder. I suspect the rider is one who jams her horse up - trapping the 'front door' without driving forward enough to match the contact. The horse feels trapped and as a result going up becomes one of its very last options to escape that pressure/confusion.
Those saying the horse gave no to little warning need to watch the video more closely. As soon as the video started I was cringing at the tension shown. The front legs stepping gradually shorter and finally the jack up/baulk before the rear. The rider had no idea how to manage it so sat there and kept a contact with leg on. At that point, the horse needed to be spun into a ORS if it has been trained in them, or sent hard forward on little contact with flexion inside to be able to turn and soften if need to. In my opinion, the rear/flip would not have happened if the horse was ridde forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Valentina

Horse starting looking around (getting nervous), rider, since it was a show, used reins to "collect" horse rather than using legs to push horse forward into bridle. (Rider should also have tried beding horses head to look at "scarey/interesting" object.

Key to prevent rearing is FORWARD and bending. In fact a leg yield (where horse is crossing HIND legs) helps since it's hard (impossible??) to rear on a single hind leg. So rider could have leg yields horse towards center of ring then back out - preventing the rearing, showing they are a good rider, and getting only 1 point off (perhaps) for the movement - versus a zero for the rear (and potentially hurting themselves and the horse).


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## Foxhunter

From the start the horse in the first video was not going forward, the rider was and obviously has been getting a 'head set' purely from the hands and the horse, I think had just had enough. There was not a lot of warning and I would say that he was not experienced with rearing because he just went up to far and then over.

The second video is of Paul Williams, the Hybrid Horseman, a _very_ experienced rider with all sorts of problem animals. Had he not been then the human instinct is to stay on as long as possible in which case he would have been under the animal.


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## mslady254

I have a slightly different understanding of why a horse rears. I'm no expert-no way-no how,,but from studying some experts, my understanding is that the horse wants/needs to move forward but is prevented (rein/bit), so unable to go forward, he goes up instead. Which is the opposite of the horse trying to avoid going forward. My horse used to try to avoid going forward and his methods were to go sideways or backwards.

Yes, the horse does give warning, as others have said. I think the rider was holding him in the headset, the horse felt held back too much,,clostrophobic...was prevented from moving forward freely , so went up to escape. He probably had no intention of flipping, but gravity took over when he went up too far.

As already said, the best way to handle a rear is to prevent the circumstances that cause a rear...constantly reading the horse and responding appropriately is your best way to stay safe, don't make him feel trapped with no way to move but up. Yes, I've also learned that a hindquarter yeild can prevent a rear in the making, and also asking and getting forward movement can prevent the rear. I've never experienced one and hope I never do!! very scary and dangerous.

Fay


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## jaydee

A horse that doesn't want to go forwards will quite often rear if you prevent it from going sideways or turning around - they are mostly the barn sour/buddy sour types that plant themselves and refuse to move - in those instances the best thing to do is try to spin it around in tight circles using the same technique as for a ORS.
I suppose that's what some would describe as making the horse think with the other side of its brain and so forget what it was thinking to get it into that 'bad place'. Whatever it is they do seem to get distracted enough to walk forwards - or maybe see walking forwards as a preferable to going round and round on the spot


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## Yogiwick

The horse is tense. It's not completely out of the blue. Who knows its history or any physical issues (seems to have a weird back).

It's not like the horse enjoys doing it. I doubt it feels good and the horse could be injured (let alone the rider). The horse always has a reason even if the rider can't understand.


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## avjudge

jaydee said:


> A horse that doesn't want to go forwards will quite often rear if you prevent it from going sideways or turning around - they are mostly the barn sour/buddy sour types that plant themselves and refuse to move


I was going to say the same thing because I had a horse who did that - the first time we went out each spring (after the snowbanks were gone from the road & the ice from the streams so we could get somewhere), and got a mile or so away from home, and she decided it was time to go home. She'd start balking, then spinning. She always ended up still pointing away from home so that didn't work for her, and her next (and last evasion) was rearing. 

Fortunately she wasn't very athletic and didn't go very high, as I didn't have you guys to tell me how dangerous it was (no internet in the '70s), so I just gave her a swat and prevented her from turning when she landed, until she decided she wasn't going to accomplish anything with that and resumed doing what I asked.

I don't remember how many springs she kept up that nonsense, but she did finally give it up. (I had her 22 years, until she was 30.)

Anne


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## verona1016

jaydee said:


> A horse that doesn't want to go forwards will quite often rear if you prevent it from going sideways or turning around


^^^ This

The very first show I took my horse to had a bit of a snafu with the warm up arena and it ended up being placed next to a petting zoo (two events being held at the state fairgrounds at the same time, were supposed to be on opposite sides, but someone thought it would be awesome for the kids at the petting zoo to see the pretty horses too!) I don't know if it was the cows, the llamas, the goats, the chickens, the pigs, the goat-herding dogs, or the swarms of kiddies, but my horse (and 99.9% of the other horses) wanted nothing to do with the whole area. This is where I learned that given enough reason (in his mind) my horse will rear. I'm fortunate that they were little rears and nowhere near flipping, but no amount of slack rein, squeezing of the legs, or taps with the whip were going to convince my horse to get closer to the petting zoo side of the arena. He wasn't trapped by anything physical- just a mental wall. In his mind, the only place to go was up.


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## pineapplepastures

The only time I dealt with a rearing horse was when I used to help train horses for my old BO and she had just gotten this really tall and beautiful strawberry roan appy. she was soo barn sour! The first time I rode her in the local gymkhana she reared as soon as I took her into the arena. I was able to calm her down but they changed the rules to every rider must wear a helmet after that!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HollyBubbles

I personally believe there are a lot of reasons for a horse to rear, and about half the time the reason for the rear may not be figured out until after it has happened.. Like when you look back on something and go "uhhh, click".
Some can be physical pain, or physical walls (usually rider error, like "closing the front and back doors" reins too tight and legs on hard), they can also be mental walls (ie confusion, fear, anxiety etc), then there's the "what on earth is happening here" rears, they can be caused by something that is unknown at the time, like being grass effected or having mineral imbalances etc.

The first video you could see the rear happening from the start, the rider was niggling constantly with the left rein, and all the other obvious signs everyone else has pointed out.
The second video I'm not sure if we saw enough of the beforehand part to see what caused the rear, only that your right, that guy is a ninja haha!

My mare DJ, she has very easy mental blocks when she gets confused or has done enough thinking about what I'm asking, this results in her mind making her physically stuck. I can completely drop my reins, or i can squeeze/tap/kick her, I can pick up the reins and try to turn her, if we have gotten past her point of mental return, it doesn't matter how or what I ask, her only open door in her mind is the skylight, eg, up. Though she has never reared very big, the only way I can defuse the situation if it has reached that point, is to get off and lead her a few steps, and start again. I have learnt to recognize the signs very quickly now and can usually defuse it before she gets to the point of needing a rear to be her escape.

Another horse that I know, was this bombproof amazing mare, you could do anything with her in any way you liked, there was no issues ever with anything... One day she was being ridden down the road just like normal, and out of the blue, no detectable warning signs, she reared up and kept on going, the outcome was not good as she managed to land on her rider, who passed away later that night. Nobody could figure it out, it was just such a sudden unexpected occurrence it hit everyone where it hurt... As it turns out, unbeknownst to anybody this mare had developed rye grass staggers, a condition that can either make them physically wobble and fall, or it can make them aggressive and excessively spooky as well as aggressive, it is related to the endophytes in rye grass so I'm not sure if this happens outside of NZ. If she had shown signs beforehand of suffering with this, her rider would not have ended up in such a horrible accident, and her rider was very knowledgeable so it wasn't as if it was a newby green rider not knowing anything.

I know of many others that have done it for many reasons, but these are the main two that stick out to me right now


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## Cielo Notturno

I've been told that a horse who doesn't have the habit to rear is actually more dangerous when he does it, because he doesn't control it well and may easily lose balance and flip backwards.

A "serial rearer", especially "serial rearer whilst mounted" knows how to stay on his feet, and the rears are most often very calculated. 

A horse that rears just once, in extreme distress, doesn't think much about it, and it's likely that if he goes vertical he doesn't expect the weight of the rider to unbalance him. 

How to avoid it… well, don't give cause to the horse to rear. Which might not be so easy to do.

I've also known horses to fall backwards if the rear was caused by a tie-down. Some horses even died that way, being lunged with the head tied down, not liking it a bit, rearing in protest and then falling because with the head tied they couldn't balance themselves.


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## hrsrdr

This horse is being ridden front-to-back. If you watch the rider, she is completely concerned with the horse's head; she barely engages her leg at all the entire clip. You can see it too in the obvious underdevelopment of the horse's loin and hindquarters. I had a horse flip (unmounted, thankfully) at a show, just because tensions got too high for him; it was the same kind of thing, his head was restricted by a tie and he fought until he was free. Sensitive horses NEED their riders to LET GO!! They need to be free through their hindquarters and back or they will build up tension there until they snap. This horse should have been allowed a good, free gallop around a field or at least a good half hour of longing before his warmup to get him feeling secure.


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## horsecv

Have you guys seen the South Korean rider in the last olympics?

Horse Goes Nuts During Equestrian Portion Of Modern Pentathlon, Turns It Into Wild Bronco Rodeo Competition


out of curiosity, what is that guy doing wrong?


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## HollyBubbles

I think that the horse was already wound up and the bells made it worse. But the rider had a very strong hold of his head when he tried to go forwards as an escape he couldn't, when he couldn't go forwards he tried to go back and when that didn't work he did the only thing he thought he could do which was go up. But I'm inexperienced with rearers so someone else might see it differently to how I did. I feel sorry for both parties in that to be honest, I really don't think the rider was expecting the outburst.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cielo Notturno

horsecv said:


> Have you guys seen the South Korean rider in the last olympics?
> 
> Horse Goes Nuts During Equestrian Portion Of Modern Pentathlon, Turns It Into Wild Bronco Rodeo Competition
> 
> 
> out of curiosity, what is that guy doing wrong?


I'll try to make a guess:

Horse thought it was his turn to go when the bells rang, so he was confused when his rider told him no, not now, and got nervous because he thought he was getting mixed signals (bells: go, rider: stop).

Rider should have turned the horse head on one side when he started to rear, pulling fully on just one rein, instead of short alternate pulls. 


I'm not an expert and I might have interpreted things wrong, I'm interested in hearing other opinions on this


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## Yogiwick

99% of rearing is the horse feeling trapped (or a habit stemming from an instance of the horse feeling trapped).


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## Cielo Notturno

Watched it a second time, after reading some comments on the page:

I don't get why the rider didn't just let the horse go. At first I thought that they were stalling because it wasn't their turn, but after reading… it *was* their turn apparently. The horse knew it. He was ready. Maybe the reins were too short, or pulled too tightly? Apparently the rider didn't know the horse, so he mistook willingness to go for refusal (?) and pulled too hard at the bit, or just didn't release enough to let the horse go.


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## jaydee

The Pentathlon competitors are often not very experienced riders (I don't know anything about this guy) and the horses aren't familiar too them
He had the horse on a really tight rein right from the start and you could see the tension building up all along but at no point did he give the horse any release or way out other than upwards.
These horses are selected for the riders because they know their job and I think the horse got confused because he wasn't being allowed to get on with that
I've ridden a lot of jumping horses that when put in a jumping ring are so keen and excited to perform they will start leaping forwards if you hang on to their heads too much, you have to allow them just enough forward movement to keep them happy
I think this is the same horse looking OK - he also competes in Eventing


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## Foxhunter

Majority of Pentathlon riders are, as Jaydee said, pretty useless riders.

The horses provided in Beijing were terrible and certainly not up to a decent standard. 

Horses for London were very carefully selected, adverts went out for horses and the response was terrific. After several trials those, and reserve horses, were taken for two weeks for final testing before they were taken to the Olympics. 

Rider error for hanging onto the horse.


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## Corporal

This horse has a bad back. A long time ago I rented a horse with a bad back, and she tripped over sideways and then, went down. Fortunately I just stepped off her back. The OTTB gelding we owned could carry me, but not my DH. On long days at CW events he was known to drop down to roll, instead of flipping, but it was for the same reason. I can see weakness in this horse's back behind the saddle.
Green horses that panic bc they believe you are a predator on their backs will do the same thing, for different reasons.
Many people buy seasoned horse that would rather die than do this to their owners, so don't panic.


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## SandyLynnWallis

I watched the video very carefully. The horse looks relaxed at the beginning. Because of the angle, it's difficult to see what happened just before he went up. It looks like she got in his mouth just before, but was not actually in it at the time he went up. The reason the horse went over backwards instead of just up, is that he lost his balance. If you watch his back feet, they shoot forward. If a horse means to flip, he will launch off his back feet. It's actually easier to get off of a horse that means to flip, rather than one who slips. If the horse goes up, sit very loosely in the saddle and be prepared to step off to the side. Always try to go to the side, so that your horse will not land directly on top of you if he goes over. I think the horse was anticipating pain for some reason, causing him to go from fairly calm to wanting to go up, and then actually rearing.


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