# Moving to Arizona w/ 2 horses(?'s about living in AZ w/ horses)



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cwilko75 said:


> My husband is likely going to be transferred to the Phoenix Arizona area next year. We live in Ohio and own a small 5 acre farm and 2 horses.
> 
> I have done a little browsing of farm properties in the Phoenix area and have a few questions to the local horse community.
> 1. It is very easy to get hay in Ohio ($5-6 bale) Where do you get hay in Arizona? Clearly has to be shipped in...what is the average cost per bale? Is it coming from Colorado, California?
> ...


I lived in Tucson for a while and moved away in 2008, so I'm a bit out of date for specific answers to your ???s but can answer in generalities. 

#1. You can get good hay from your local feed store or you can order from a hay broker. Good alfalfa is raised in the Yuma area. Can't answer you on prices, they were MUCH less when I lived out there. 

#2. JUST board? Or training too? Those figures will probably shock you some. 

#3. Both. Those who live in town board and those who choose to commute can have their horses at home in some cases. 

#4. Yes, that's right. They allow a lot more density in AZ because you won't have grass for grazing, the horses aren't dependent on the grazing area for their feed, you have to hay them year round. You'll have to check local ordinances to see what's allowed in the area you want to be in. A good realtor will be able to answer your questions, look for one that specializes in Equine Property. 

#5. I never shod any of my horses, the ground is very sandy and will keep their feet worn down very well. 

#6. The horse communities in AZ tend to be pretty active because of the weather. In summer we were out on the trail by 6 a.m. and home by 8 a.m., before it got too hot. If you want good dressage training, it's out there, there are some of the best trainers in the nation in the Scottsdale/Phoenix area. 

#7. There is more trail riding in AZ, and Phoenix, than you can imagine. I rode right out of my back gate and rarely rode exactly the same trail twice. You can trailer to a lot of different places within an hour's drive from the Phoenix metro area, and within 2 you can be up in the mountains. 

#8. There are many communities within easy commute distance to the University. 

There are several University of Phoenix campuses in AZ, 3 in the Phoenix and Tempe areas and 1 in Tucson and 1 in Yuma, so it depends on which campus he's on that will determine where you want to be.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

in the phoenix area for alfalfa you are looking at $14 per bale and Bermuda $16 per bail. you can buy hey at any local feed store.

boarding SUCKS! i board 4 horses and im so over barn drama. most board is averaging at $300 a month per horse. some more and few less. 

if its at all feesable i would get horse property and only board while you are getting the property ready. boarding out here is horses stuck in stalls 20+ hours a day. 
if you plan on riding in rocky areas i say shoes or at least hoof boots. 

as for trail riding there are a few trail riding groups. im part od the Arizona Backcountry Riders. they are on Facebook and they always have rides planned. there are several parks you can ride at in the phoenix area. im closer to Thunderbird park. its about 12 miles from where we board to the park and back and thats riding miles.

im learning dressage myself. there is an arizona dressage association that is quite active. recommend looking into it.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm south of Tucson, but FWIW:

I currently pay around $15 for a 100 lb bale of hay. Alfalfa tends to be a little cheaper. It has hit as high as $22/bale. 

I can legally keep 4 horses/acre. That's because I am responsible for all their food, all their water, and removing the poop. I currently have three who live in a corral. IIRC, legally in this county, they must have a 20x20 foot stall, minimum. There are people who do it that way. Mine live together in a corral that is shaped like an L, about 100' long on each leg.

The ground varies. I live in a foothill area, where the ground is very uneven and rocky. Three miles north of me, the ground flattens out and is fairly soft - but that is three miles through neighborhoods. In the summer, the roads get too hot for a horse's foot by about 10 o'clock. 

My horses are barefoot. If we take Trooper out on the trails for 1.5 hrs/day, 5 days/week, his feet will wear too much. Bandit has harder hooves. Cowboy's hooves are made of iron, as far as the farrier can tell. A trim runs $35-40 per horse. Don't know about shoes.

The good news is that living on a dry lot seems to toughen up hooves. 

Most of the horse owners in my area keep them at home on one acre lots. I have two, but the horses live on the acre with my house. I bought the second acre for extra room and have a small arena on it. That is rare in my area.

When looking, remember HOAs and CC&Rs can restrict the rules on horses beyond any county rules. Pima County has become much more aggressively anti-horse. They use the zoning rules to harass owners. That wouldn't be so bad, except they also try to impose personal interpretations, not written. I had a 4 hour argument with a guy who wanted me to spend $2000 to get a new survey and provide engineering drawings, although the actual zoning regulations didn't require anything. His boss finally came out of his office and told him to just issue me "the %#[email protected] permit". I'd LOVE to get out of Pima County! The Phoenix area might be more sensible. I don't know.


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I live in Central Arizona in Camp Verde. I've also lived in Black Canyon City which is a pretty easy commute to Phoenix. New River is also a really good place to buy horse property and keep them at home. 

I've never had to board so have little input there other than I've heard wonderful stories and horror stories. If you are accustomed to having your horses with you and caring for them yourself, that may be a better option for you.

Right now I pay 14.00 a bale for alfalfa and 14.25 for bermuda. But, that's the lowest it's been in many years around here. It's very good hay too.

I've paid as high at 95.00 for 4 foot shoeing. Right now I have an excellent shoer that charges 65.00 for all four and 45.00 for fronts only and 35.00 for a trim.

The trails here are dry and rocky. Shoes or boots are almost required.

I'm only assuming that you're talking about the University of Phoenix in the Phoenix area? New River would be a very reasonable commute. We live in Camp Verde and my husband drives to Phoenix daily. It's 105 miles. I couldn't do it, but many here do. The price we pay for living out in the country.

You will like the weather here. Our riding time is all year. During the heat of summer, I'm on the trail by 5 am and often ride until 9 or 10. During the winter we can ride all day. But you must remember when it rains, our soil gets slick as snot and not good footing at all. Down south around the Casa Grande or Maricopa area are better choices for footing. The soil is sandy and absorbs rain like a sponge.

Is there any way you can come out here and spend a few days driving around and talking to people?


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

i have lived in both Casa Grande and i currently live in phoenix and i can agree with all the above. also if you build ANYTHING that is cemented into the ground (shade cover or what have you) get a permit. it will save you alot of Bull Manure.

also the summer can be brutal. 119F is NOT a fun temp, i dont care if its a dry heat or not. and the horses feel it. i normally hose mine off throughout the day to try and help.

winter is our riding season. if it ever comes lol. it is still in the high 80s in the valley and was still in the high 90s.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

KigerQueen said:


> i have lived in both Casa Grande and i currently live in phoenix and i can agree with all the above. also if you build ANYTHING that is cemented into the ground (shade cover or what have you) get a permit. it will save you alot of Bull Manure.
> 
> also the summer can be brutal. 119F is NOT a fun temp, i dont care if its a dry heat or not. and the horses feel it. i normally hose mine off throughout the day to try and help.
> 
> winter is our riding season. if it ever comes lol. it is still in the high 80s in the valley and was still in the high 90s.


Move to Prescott! We ride all year! :lol:

Joking aside, the permit remark is dead-on. My BO is having issues with the county (Yavapai) because NOTHING on the property she bought 20+ years ago is permitted, even though it was ALL there when she bought the place. They wanted $1700 in a lump sum for permits that they could technically revoke at any time. The fence on the property needs to be permitted, as do the two barns (technically three, since they have a small, stand-alone two stall barn). They also wanted her to install a men's restroom, women's restroom, AND HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE restroom in order to run the barn as a boarding facility. She just bought a place in town limits (Chino Valley) and has already gotten all the permitting and everything she needed in order to run the boarding barn and hold shows during the summer.

Shoeing in AZ depends on your horses. My gelding is perfectly content barefoot on any terrain. I know other horses who are ouchy on gravel or rocks and require at least front shoes. Up here, trims are about $40. My friend was paying $65 for a set of front shoes. Didn't know anybody who shod all four, so don't know the price. 

Hay, like Dreamcatcher said, usually comes from Yuma. I can get decent Colorado-grown timothy and mixed grass hay where I'm at for about $13 a bale for a small (65lbs) bale. We can get 110# bales of alfalfa for $11 and 110# bales of bermuda for about $13. I have a guy who stays at my hotel regularly who brings 95# bales of orchard mix hay from New Mexico and sells it for $13 a bale. He always brings me and my best friend (her fiance works for me) five to ten bales each when he comes, or just gives us whatever he doesn't end up selling. We have a few local growers, but there's been some issues with trash and crap in their bales, so no one I know trusts them anymore.

Board varies. Up where I live, I pay $185/month for full care turnout board (no such thing as "pasture board" around here). That includes feeding three times per day with alfalfa or bermuda (my choice), cleaning stalls/turnouts, bringing in to a stall during bad weather, blanketing or putting fly masks on, feeding grain I buy, and full use of the arena and round pens. The place I boarded before this was $250/month for partial care, meaning I cleaned my own stall and filled my own water and the BO fed his alfalfa hay (feeding anything other than his alfalfa cost more). The most expensive I've seen was $800/month at a swanky dressage barn with a huge covered arena and heated/cooled stalls. I talked to the lady who ran it and she was all interested until I mentioned I have a draft cross. Then she basically turned her nose up at me. :icon_rolleyes: 

Dressage places shouldn't be too hard to find in Phoenix. I know up here we have the Dressage Divas. Trail riding and rodeo sports are more popular than the English disciplines, though.


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## cwilko75 (Nov 12, 2013)

Yes we will be coming out...we are still in the early stages of this whole moving thing. I am sure there will be ample opportunity to come out to AZ and suss things out before all decisions are made. I was just having a knee jerk reaction to wanting to find out information before we come.  This is the first time we have moved with horses so kind of a big deal in my mind. And when I think of AZ I don't naturally think of horse country because of the heat! At least not horse country like Ohio...lots of people have horses here (boarded and home kept). Just depends highly on what you want to have to tend too! Cheaper to keep horses at home than to board.


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## cwilko75 (Nov 12, 2013)

Blue said:


> I live in Central Arizona in Camp Verde. I've also lived in Black Canyon City which is a pretty easy commute to Phoenix. New River is also a really good place to buy horse property and keep them at home.
> 
> I've never had to board so have little input there other than I've heard wonderful stories and horror stories. If you are accustomed to having your horses with you and caring for them yourself, that may be a better option for you.
> 
> ...


see below thread... new to this blog thing. didn't know how to attach my comment.


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## cwilko75 (Nov 12, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Move to Prescott! We ride all year! :lol:
> 
> Joking aside, the permit remark is dead-on. My BO is having issues with the county (Yavapai) because NOTHING on the property she bought 20+ years ago is permitted, even though it was ALL there when she bought the place. They wanted $1700 in a lump sum for permits that they could technically revoke at any time. The fence on the property needs to be permitted, as do the two barns (technically three, since they have a small, stand-alone two stall barn). They also wanted her to install a men's restroom, women's restroom, AND HANDICAP ACCESSIBLE restroom in order to run the barn as a boarding facility. She just bought a place in town limits (Chino Valley) and has already gotten all the permitting and everything she needed in order to run the boarding barn and hold shows during the summer.
> 
> ...


LOL...well the dressage diva thing makes me nuts! Hence, the reason we own our own property and I haul for lessons. Plus it is SO expensive to board. So my question to you is this? If you are paying so much for hay how are the board cost so low? is that just for board,...no hay?

I feed hay 6mos a year (fall, winter, early spring) when we pull our horses off pasture....only $5-6.00 bales. We buy about 225 bales for those months...which does bleed over into the summer until we buy our coming seasons winter hay. How many bales do you feed in a full year? (per horse) We don't feed alfalfa...can you feed less alfalfa due to calorie intake to reduce cost in buying more hay? 

As for the summer heat? can you ride at all? or do you have to get up super early to ride? I never considered the heat of the sand causing you not to be able to ride. Do horses have to be kept inside?/stalled? Ours stay in stall/runs during summer that they can wiggle around a bit. We turn out on pasture over night due to flies/heat. I realize there is no grass turn out in AZ but do people have large dry lots for turn out? How does all that commonly work?


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## Blue (Sep 4, 2011)

I have open air stalls where the horses go during feeding time. They're bossy and have to be separated for feeding. They stay in during the night and past feeding time in the morning then are turned out to a dry lot during the day. I have a little bitty tiny bit of pasture that is more of a treat for them, so they get an hour or two a day on that, but that's about it because I have to preserve it. 

My horses are all pretty well acclimated to the heat and could be ridden all day, but i don't take the heat well at all. As long as the horses are hydrated and healthy with plenty of time to rest they're fine. The problems I see are when these young people push their horses too hard and then there's difficulties. It takes time to acclimate so you need to account for that.

I still have very little input regarding board. I think it works for some and doesn't work for others. As for hay, I feed some alfalfa during summer, but a lot of bermuda. A little more alfalfa during winter and free feed bermuda.

You don't say what type of horses you have? Some take well to it and others not so much.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

cwilko75 said:


> LOL...well the dressage diva thing makes me nuts! Hence, the reason we own our own property and I haul for lessons. Plus it is SO expensive to board. So my question to you is this? If you are paying so much for hay how are the board cost so low? is that just for board,...no hay?
> 
> I feed hay 6mos a year (fall, winter, early spring) when we pull our horses off pasture....only $5-6.00 bales. We buy about 225 bales for those months...which does bleed over into the summer until we buy our coming seasons winter hay. How many bales do you feed in a full year? (per horse) We don't feed alfalfa...can you feed less alfalfa due to calorie intake to reduce cost in buying more hay?
> 
> As for the summer heat? can you ride at all? or do you have to get up super early to ride? I never considered the heat of the sand causing you not to be able to ride. Do horses have to be kept inside?/stalled? Ours stay in stall/runs during summer that they can wiggle around a bit. We turn out on pasture over night due to flies/heat. I realize there is no grass turn out in AZ but do people have large dry lots for turn out? How does all that commonly work?


Okay, now that I'm on my computer and it won't take me three years to type out an answer...

My gelding goes through about 3-3.5 bales of hay per week (two 110# bermuda and one 110# alfalfa). Having to feed hay year round, that adds up to about $2000 a year in hay at the current average prices. At the current rate I pay for board, I end up paying about $2220 per year in board. Now, keep in mind that my BO keeps her rates low because she loves what she does. They live on-site and don't have any employees (she and her husband do all the work), so they don't have a ton of overhead. 

Yes, you can feed less alfalfa because it's got a higher calorie content. You do have to keep a closer eye out for metabolic issues because of the higher sugar content, if your horses' breed is prone to that. 

Where I live, it doesn't get nearly as hot as it does in Phoenix. Our summers rarely get over 95F with minimal humidity. Our winters are colder than Phoenix's are, but they're not horribly cold. We usually average in the 50s during the day. We do get snow, but not that much and it's usually gone by the afternoon. 

Mare motels are more popular than barns down here. The barn I board at right now has two barns and then a double row of mare motel-type stalls. There are also turnouts that are delineated by hot wire. You'll hear the word "turnout" used more around here than dry lot, but they're essentially the same thing. There are some people who have private property who have "pastures," but the grass doesn't last long because they usually have multiple horses in a small area. For example, there's a place that I pass on my way to work that six months ago was a one acre grass lot. People moved two horses onto it and now it's just dirt. 

This is the grass we have up here. I know it's a black-and-white pic, but you get an idea.









There's not a lot of nutritional value in that grass and it's brown for the majority of the year. It also gets grazed down quickly and doesn't grow back very fast. This is actually a pic of some vacant land I pass every day on my way to work. It's about fifty acres or so and they run six horses on it. They feed alfalfa hay every night, in addition to the horses grazing all day.


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