# Conformation Game



## xdrybonesxvalleyx (Jan 17, 2010)

I have textbooks and books and books, but I was wondering if anyone could help me with general conformation?

I'm thinking maybe like a game. Like..someone posts pictures and people try to list everything wrong? I think it'd be a good learning process for the people like me that can tell something's wrong but isn't smart enough to actually know what. ^^


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

What an excellent idea. Conformation is something I wanna learn.

And here's something which I've heard conflicting things about. The height of the horses butt compared to the withers. I read on here that if the horse's hips are taller than the withers then the horse is a rough ride. But someone else, a horse person, told me a little while ago that when you choose a horse you want to find one with the butt higher than the withers.

Well I have a horse who's hips are lower than his withers and he's a smooth gaited horse. Then my cousins horse who has a taller butt than his withers is such a back breaking ride that I just stay off him. And my grandma told me she likes horses with an equal height of hips to withers.

But of course the horse person who told me to choose a horse with taller hips than withers couldn't give me a reason why that's important. He just said, "I dunno?".

I'll see if I can get a picture of my cousins horse some time today.

Any good internet sites I could look at to begin learning conformation?


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I'd love it if this gets going, I really want to learn more!

Totalfreedom, I read (on these forums) that the slope of the shoulder affects the smoothness of the gait. A more upright shoulder means rougher, a more sloped shoulder equates to a smoother ride. This seems to hold true among my horses, the one with the most sloped shoulder (my mare Freyja) is the smoothest non-gaited horse I have ever rode!


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## xdrybonesxvalleyx (Jan 17, 2010)

Totally agree.

I don't think horses HERE. It may be insulting to the others.
However, I think if you look on classifieds (like small lame ones like Craigslist) it's easy to find horses with problems, especially the cheap ones.

But I just..hate not knowing it. x_x


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## JumperStride (Jul 1, 2010)

Browsing Flash on deviantART

Its an actual conformation judging game :]


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## xdrybonesxvalleyx (Jan 17, 2010)

Oooh that is interesting.


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

Here's a couple pictures to get this thread moving.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I think this might be a good idea though it would probably be better to post pictures of our own horses so that we are not just judging random other people's horses. If there is a pic on a conformation website or something similar, I think it would be okay but we should probably avoid a strangers personal pix.

Okay, TF. This is a good start. Would it be easier if we just did one horse at a time?

Anyway.....
Sorrel: throatlatch seems a bit thick, neck might be just a hair long though it is hard to tell, shoulder is just a touch steep for my taste, kinda tall withers, his back kinda drops behind his withers, possibly from long years of heavy riding?, I like his back end and his legs look good, though his hocks are a little bit straight.

Bay: Kinda hard to judge from the position of the horse but it appears the back is a little bit long, his shoulder is just a touch steep too. Anything else is hard to guess just from his awkward position.

Okay, so how does this work now? Do I post a horse or do we wait for more people to comment on the ones above?

Also, if there is anyone interested in learning about conformation, here is a link to a good site on conformation and faults.
FAQ Conformation Index


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Also, not to dredge up an old thread, but I did this one a while back. It has lots of good info in it.
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/basics-horse-conformation-49094/


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I agree that it's probably a better idea to post our own horses - as long as we can all agree to be thick skinned and not get overly concerned - keep in mind it's just a game and for educational purposes for all of us!

So tell me, something looks weird to me on the sorrel - the lower part of his hind legs/hooves. It might be an optical illusion due to the socks on back, his pasterns look good but the overall view looks weird to me. Yet I don't know exactly what is "off." Maybe it's just his rear hooves being a little long toed? Anyone see what I'm seeing and can explain?

The bay looks pretty good to me, other than being overweight, but it's hard to tell with the angle of the picture, the legs look short/out of balance with the body but I believe that's just foreshortening from the camera angle.


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

Sounds like a cool idea  Dunno if ya'll are ready for another, but..

(she doesn't normally toe out)


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Indy, I see it too but left it out because I think it might just be due to the long feet making all the angles off.

AnnaLover: nice looking horse, well muscled. Just a touch overweight and that is causing a little bit of a cresty neck (nothing terrible). Her shoulder and croup are a little straight for what I like and she may be a bit base narrow, though it is hard to tell that from the side. Seems a little bit cow-hocked but not bad. I really like the angle of her back for a western horse, nice and level-maybe just a touch downhill.


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

smrobs said:


> Indy, I see it too but left it out because I think it might just be due to the long feet making all the angles off.
> 
> AnnaLover: nice looking horse, well muscled. *Just a touch overweight and that is causing a little bit of a cresty neck (nothing terrible)*. Her shoulder and croup are a little straight for what I like and she may be a bit base narrow, though it is hard to tell that from the side. Seems a little bit cow-hocked but not bad. I really like the angle of her back for a western horse, nice and level-maybe just a touch downhill.


Thanks for the critique!  I have noticed that she might be getting a little overweight and I don't like it xP Wonder if I should cut back on the food, or do you think extra exercise would to the trick?

ETA: Someone mentioned using a neck sweat (?) to help with her thicker throat latch and maybe that would help with her cresty neck?


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

You're going to have a field day with this one. This is Lola, my first pony and the UGLIEST critter to ever grace the earth.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I don't really have anything to add to what smrobs said. I'm mainly just trying to learn to pick out these details. Like smrobs said, the shoulder angle seems steep. I really like her neck, but then I have a thing for big thick necks - technically they aren't greatly desirable are they? She has a very pretty head. She doesn't seem terribly overweight to me, I like her general body shape.

smrobs, does the narrow base mean how close together her legs are set under her body?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

AL, I don't know about what you are feeding her but more work would never hurt . I have heard that a neck sweat is actually more trouble than it is worth because it is so time intensive every single day. That may be why only the top show people bother with it LOL.

Indy, I like big necks too but they are generally looked down upon in stock horses. Yes, base narrow means that the legs are close together in the way that they come out of the body and how they stand.

Aw, Brighteyes, I love Lola's ugly, ornery little self.

Come on now folks, we need some more people doing some critiquing on here so we can get some varying opinions.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

*lol* Yes please - lease pictures and more time spent on the ones already posted please!

(As an aside I LOVE Lola! She looks like an appy fjord cross *lol* In all honesty I really like her legs. She's chubby and a bit butt high, but her legs are awesome and so solid, really like them)


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

smrobs said:


> I have heard that a neck sweat is actually more trouble than it is worth because it is so time intensive every single day. That may be why only the top show people bother with it LOL.


^^This. The appaloosa gelding I showed as a teenager had a very cresty neck. We had to apply listerine braces and necksweats nightly almost all show season long, it was miserable. So not worth it. I can't honestly say I ever noticed anything more than a vaguely moderate difference, either.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I guess we can continue on and welcome any more opinions about previous horses?

Lola is so ugly that she is almost cute. Like those little bald dogs with mohawks and no teeth LOL.

Her head is kinda big and clunky with that beautiful moose nose ;p, short bull neck, long back that is just a touch swayed, shoulder is a bit steep, sickle hocks. Pasterns are exceptionally short (common to the drafty types) and a little upright. Ugly little cuss but those of us with ugly horses have to learn to embrace the ugliness and recognize it as making them unique LOL.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

The ugly ones end up making the best horses! I think she looks like a draft that has been through the compactor. I agree with the short and kinda upish pasterns. Those legs look really solid though...its hard to find a horse with good bone like that anymore!


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I really hope this thread stays going because I find it very helpful to be able to ask questions and get clarification like this - I tend not to on the critique threads because I don't want to be rude and hijack, and some of it seems like a foreign language to me, so here I feel okay about asking questions! I have read both the links smrobs posted (believe I actually read them before) but I learn best from doing - as in seeing this and being able to inquire about things will be very helpful to me! I eat up the confo critique threads on here, though I almost never post on them because I'm a self admitted learner *lol* So thanks again for a great thread idea!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, I guess if nobody else is going to play, we can just keep going.

I'll post one so you guys can get some practice .

Though he isn't quite so wonky as Lola, he still has plenty of faults to point out.


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## xdrybonesxvalleyx (Jan 17, 2010)

I agree with our OWN horses, just not like random other people's horses. ^^
I know people (not on here xD) that would probably do that.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

smrobs, I'll give it a shot. You'll have to point some out to me. Is he built downhill or standing on a little bit of a slope? Slightly pidgeon toed and very slightly knock kneed in the front (though that could just be the picture). Looks like he toes out a little in back back too (but isn't that favorable, or at least expected, for drafties?) Does he have the narrow base you were talking about, or is that just from the toeing out/cow hocked in the back?
Fairly short, upright pasterns, and a steeper shoulder. He looks like he's heavy on the front end, but then that's a look I am used to from my own draft crosses. Does his neck tie in a little far back? A little under-conditioned but not bad, I think his weight looks fair, perhaps chubby but not unhealthily-so. 

I'm honestly trying to look for things on him, because I actually think he's very pretty *lol*


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

Isn't Dobe a mustang? I guess they can be drafty in certain areas.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Oh heck, I didn't even look at his breed, was just going off his build and assumed he was a draft cross, he looks like one!

Some parts of the country mustangs were infused with a lot of draft blood, it just depends on the region they came from. If he's from farther south, he'd have more spanish blood, if he's from Montana/Wyoming he'd likely have draft blood. If he was a homebred mustang, it's anyone's guess I suppose!


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## AnnaLover (Sep 27, 2009)

Indyhorse said:


> Oh heck, I didn't even look at his breed, was just going off his build and assumed he was a draft cross, he looks like one!
> 
> Some parts of the country mustangs were infused with a lot of draft blood, it just depends on the region they came from. If he's from farther south, he'd have more spanish blood, *if he's from Montana/Wyoming he'd likely have draft blood*. If he was a homebred mustang, it's anyone's guess I suppose!


That's what I was trying to say :lol: You said it much better!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Yep, he is from Adobe Town Wyoming. I honestly believe he probably has some perch blood in there somewhere just because his basic build reminds me so much of a small John.

Indy, you did a good job. Yes, he is slightly downhill, pigeon toed on the front. I am not certain about being knock kneed but it is possible. His shoulder is a bit steep. I think the base narrow appearance you are seeing on the back is his cow-hockedness, though he was a very narrow little boy when he was a kid. Very short upright pasterns. He is also camped out behind and pretty post legged too. I have been told that his back is a little long but it fits my saddle well.

What is funny is that everything about his conformation screams that he should be the roughest travelling cuss ever born but amazingly, he is the smoothest I have ever ridden.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

Ha ha, y'all's descriptions of Lola have made my day. Especially "Draft that's been through a compactor" and "like those little bald dogs with mohawks and no teeth." You rock.  

Next time someone wants to breed, I'm posting a picture of her with the words, "Choose carefully."


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## Starlet (Jun 3, 2010)

I'll post one. Don't be nice, I can take criticism.
Sorry but i just have to post a true norwegian fjord!!!
Fellow norwegians will understand


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Starlet said:


> I'll post one. Don't be nice, I can take criticism.
> Sorry but i just have to post a true norwegian fjord!!!
> Fellow norwegians will understand


Is this your own horse? Pretty sure we had already decided in this thread to only post our own horses, just to make things easier and not be critiquing the horses of people who are not asking for it. This horse isn't listed in your barn?


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

smrobs, thank you! I see the post leggedness now that you point it out....see that's my issue right now is I look at individual parts and don't look at the big picture very well. I'm not sure I understand what camped out means though?

He does look like a perch to me - in fact that's the assumption I was going off of until Annalover corrected me! :lol:


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## xdrybonesxvalleyx (Jan 17, 2010)

I don't see a problem with doing other horses, so long as they're from Google or something, and not someone else's in the forum.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

It means that he stands with his hind legs out behind him a little bit. Ideal conformation should have a horse that you can draw a straight up/down line from the point of the butt to the hock to the fetlock like this.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

smrobs said:


> It means that he stands with his hind legs out behind him a little bit. Ideal conformation should have a horse that you can draw a straight up/down line from the point of the butt to the hock to the fetlock like this.



Oh I see! but how do you decide whether that's a conformational flaw or something to how he's standing? For example it brings to mind the pics I've seen of Walkers and Hackneys "parked out" and stretched way back....do you just have to move around them in person and determine whether this is a natural or unnatural stance for them, and make sure to reserve judgment rather than basing it on a still shot?

For example, in my avatar Claymore would be very camped out on that one leg right? But I don't believe he is normally that way (will have to look closer at him now!)

Thanks so much and I really hope I'm not driving you crazy with all these questions *l*


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## totalfreedom (Nov 23, 2009)

I wish I could play along too. I still have much to learn and I haven't been reading yet.

Well I know some were saying that others may get offended if the horse posted isn't their own. But...............

This is a horse I just found not too far from me. I had been looking for a young horse. How does this guy look? The only things I know of so far to look for is the height of the hip to the withers. And the location of the shoulder to the withers. This I know of cus I don't want a horse that's not gonna break my back bouncing down the trail.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't mind the questions at all Indy. I know that Dobe is camped out because that is how he always stands. As for the horses that are taught to be camped out, the breed standards change for different breeds. Just like performance QH are usually just a touch downhill and warmbloods are usually a touch uphill. 

TF, I think it is more of a "don't just copy random pix off of a strangers flickr account" and stuff like that. If that is a horse you are thinking of maybe buying, then that's different.

What I see, his neck is pretty short and very thin. Though his withers go a long way into his back, it appears that his shoulder is kinda steep. Something about his neck and back really bothers me. The way that it drops way off just behind his withers kinda makes me cringe (but some of this may be due to the fact that he is a bit underweight). His back seems pretty long. His legs look good though he may be a little bit straight through his pasterns on the front. Then again, that could be the angle he is standing. If he is still pretty young, like under 3, then some of it could just be that he is still growing and needs to fill out. If he is over 5, then he is not likely to change much and I think I would keep looking.


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## AngelWithoutWings54 (May 24, 2010)

Alright, there's plenty to point out in Jerry. He's my first, only, and current horse, and I love him so very much that I often find myself thinking that he's perfect, although he's far from it. I just got a new camera so tomorrow I'll take a bunch of good confo pics. But here's what I have for now:


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

This is my mare Whooty. The first pic is the most recent, the second a few months ago, and the third from before I bought her back in January. 

EDIT: The last pic she has her winter coat which is like 2 or 3 inches thick.


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## AngelWithoutWings54 (May 24, 2010)

Lonestar, I'm no good at confo, but I thought I should tell you that she's ADORABLE. I love appys, even though the only one I've ever ridden was pure evil. lol.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Lol thank you. She is a sweetheart, pure gold, unless she's hungry or somebody is being fed at the barn while we are riding lol. But she is a great horse.


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## NordicJuniper (Jun 9, 2009)

I am curious what people have to say about these two :]

Beamer, 15hh National Show Horse mare.

















Shazzy, 13.2hh Arabian mare.


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