# Stubben Johs Krefeld



## Speed Racer

That's not a model of Stubben, that's the saddlery where it was made. That saddle is one of the original, German made Stubbens if it has the Johs Kreffeld stamp on it.

Those original, German made Stubbens last just about forever.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

That's great to hear! They're asking $200 on consignment including irons and leathers. It needs a very good clean and oil but it's in better condition then some stubbens ive seen that are going for $300...I think its been on consignment awhile and I offers $150 so am waiting to hear back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mammakatja

That's a great price even if it does need a little TLC. I'd jump on it. I was given an older Stubben Siegfried that was made in Germany. The newer ones are made in Switzerland. I LOVED this saddle. The people who gave it to me had it in their garden shed and had no idea what they had. Some Leather New and oil perked it right up. Sadly I lost it in a barn fire last fall. I bought another used one made in Switzerland. They are still excellent saddles but I was so spoiled to my old made in Germany one. It was soft and supple and "made for me". And they do last forever. Good luck with your find.


----------



## Speed Racer

I bought an older, German made Stubben. It was advertised as an 18" seat, but turned out to be a 19", which was way too big for me. It was one of the original Siegfrieds.

Once I cleaned and oiled it up, I sold it on. It was too nice a saddle to not be used.

I'm surprised a German made Stubben has a $200 price tag, as they tend to be in demand by people who know what they're worth. 

I paid $450 for my current Stubben that was made in Switzerland, and think I got quite the bargain. If you can get a German made Stubben for less than that, good for you!


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Well the consignment shop is in the middle of horse country but the 'consignment' part of the place is upstairs, where as down stairs is a feed store. The upstairs is a hay loft so alot of the things on consignment are pretty dusty and kinda forgotten about. I found the stubben in the corner and am awaiting to hear if the lady will accept my offer. Won't hear back until Monday or Tuesday though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mammakatja

Speed Racer said:


> I bought an older, German made Stubben. It was advertised as an 18" seat, but turned out to be a 19", which was way too big for me. It was one of the original Siegfrieds.
> 
> Once I cleaned and oiled it up, I sold it on. It was too nice a saddle to not be used.
> 
> I'm surprised a German made Stubben has a $200 price tag, as they tend to be in demand by people who know what they're worth.
> 
> I paid $450 for my current Stubben that was made in Switzerland, and think I got quite the bargain. If you can get a German made Stubben for less than that, good for you!


That's exactly what I paid for my Swiss made one for Speedracer. I won it on ebay and it really was a decent deal especially for the shape it was in. It's a 17 1/2 in. which is slightly too big but still doable. I ride a 16 1/2 dressage saddle that seems just about perfect but its a deeper seat. My German made Stubben was one of those that just kind of happens to you which it really did. I miss it. If I could find a German made one in the shape mine was in for a crazy price, I'd probably sell my Swiss made. Not that mine new one is bad. Its just hard to replace something you liked a lot.

Anyway, Cowgirls Boots, is there a way you can post a phone pic of it? I'd love to see it. I'm just a sucker for this saddle. Maybe it's my German background. :wink: I've found if you live in an area, like I live in stickville Texas, where English riding isn't as popular, folks don't always know what they have, especially if they're trying to sell a Stubben at a feedstore. Just for kicks, I'll show off my new Stubben and my old one. Wish I had a better pic of my old one. :-(








You can tell in this pic that its just slightly too big.









Here's my old one. The date is wrong . This was taken summer of 2011.







Here's another older pic. Man I wish I would have gotten a close up of it. Who thinks they're going to lose all their tack in a fire?! Stupid me.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I only have a fuzzy picture that is on there website but here it is. 









_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Looks like a Parzival. Definitely could use some TLC, but it should come back nicely. Those old Stubbens are hard to kill!

My Siegfried is older, too. It has the older style sueded knee roll, and is at least 25-30 years old. Still looks almost brand new.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I mean one of the stirrup leather keepers is broken and the saddle was heavy for an English (to me anyway) could have just been the irons, though. 

The keeper isn't a big deals because if I end up getting it I would like to bring it to a saddle restorer and maybe fix the knee rolls and check it over.

I'm a western rider through and through but I started out English. My dream saddle is a brand new stubben but I really only play around when I ride English or to switch things up in the ring. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Quixotic

My Stubben Siegfried is roughly 45 years old, and it's in beautiful shape for its age. I've found that with Stubbens, people either love them or they hate them. I love them, & I think mine is SO comfy. My trainer absolutely swears by them. Including shipping, I paid about $350 for mine when I bought it off ebay about 2 years ago.


----------



## Paintlover1965

I too love my Stubbens. I had one in the 1980's and sold it with my mare. I wish I still had it today. It was truly wonderful. I now have a new Siegfried and an Edelweiss nt. Love them! Good luck with your purchase.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Okay thanks guys! I'm super excited to hear back from the shop. Ugh I'm so impatient!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Got the saddle!! Anyone have any idea how to clean and rehydrate the leather? It's not too dirty but is very dry. I bought Bickmores Ultimate Travel Kit which comes with leather conditioner and cleaner and a cloth. Should I do those first then see how it goes? It says the conditioner will help the dryness and may need to apply more then 1 coat but then I know I could always use neatsfoot oil...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Clean any dirt off, then I'd use pure neatsfoot oil on it to bring back the leather. Heat up the oil first, as that will make it absorb into the leather faster and easier.

Oh, and congrats! You got the deal of the century.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

So use the Bickmores cleaner and then use neatsfoot? And thank you will post before and after pixs !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mammakatja

Oh I can't wait to see the before and afters! Did she go down on the price at all? I LOVE using the Leather New spray to start anything I'm trying to revive because it helps clean up dirt or dust and then Neatsfoot oil afterwards if it's extremely dry. The Leather New really gives it a good start though. That's what I used on my Stubben that was given to me out of a garden shed. Post pics!!


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

She took the $150. Gonna go home and try to revive it. Definitely will have pics to follow tonight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Okay this is before I cleaned it. 

















And this is after I cleaned it. 









Still have yet to oil it! Any ideas on what the model is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mammakatja

It really looks like a Siegfried to me. I guess there's no cover over the billets is there. That's where the model name would more than likely be written. I had to really look for mine. It was almost completely rubbed off because they usually print it on there in gold writing and don't stamp it into the leather like they do the serial number. Congrats on a great find though. It looks really good, especially for $150!


----------



## Speed Racer

It could be a Siegfried, as it looks very similar to mine. I just don't know why it has one long billet strap hanging down. 

Even the German made Siegfried I had and sold on didn't have long billets.

Here's my Swiss made Siegfried for comparison:


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

The billet cOvers are on but rubbed off 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Cowgirls Boots said:


> The billet cOvers are on but rubbed off
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, that happens. Does it have anything actually stamped _into_ the leather of the billet covers? Mine has the serial number and the gullet size.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Yeah maybe the billets were replaced? I thought that was odd as well. It's not even the middle one that's longer either. It's the first one...all the billets are different lengths. 305 is stamped on the billet cover but is pretty much rubbed off too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

That's possible, but it's odd they'd all be different lengths. :think:

Oh well, it's certainly a lovely saddle either way. Here's the German Siegfried I had and sold on:


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Thank you. Yours is certainly lovely! I love stubbens. Well as long as the saddle is definitely a stubben I won't worry too much about those weird billets.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

That humongous German made Siegfried went on to a new owner in Canada. A 19" seat was just far too big for me, even though it was a gorgeous saddle. 

My current Siegfried is a 17.5" seat, so much more properly sized for me. :wink:

Yep, what you have is definitely a Stubben, and as you can see, they come back beautifully. Both of mine looked worse than yours before I cleaned and oiled them up.


----------



## Quixotic

You got such a great deal! It's definitely a Siegfried. 305 is probably a 30.5 (medium) tree.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Your probably right about the 305 because it is a medium tree. ( or so I was told )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Will a 30.5 cm work for your horse? Mine is a 31 cm and fits my tub of a TB very well.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I have a welsh pony/qh mix mare who in a western saddle is smaller then semi qh bars so I hope it'll fit her but I'm assuming it will because all though she's a tub she's got a small back. Same goes for my gelding as well.

Truthfully I'm not sure but *cross fingers* it will
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I've applied about 5 coats of oil and it is still sucking it up. Should I keep going til it's not sucking it up anymore?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Yes, let it absorb as much as it can, then stop oiling. Let it sit overnight, then buff off any remaining oil that hasn't absorbed.

If it feels a little tacky after buffing, set it outside in the sun for a couple of hours. That will dry up any residual oil.

Can you tell this is something I've done more than once? :wink:


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

Thanks for all your help SR. I definitely thought I was doing it wrong bc it kept sucking it up in minutes after every coat. I let it sit over night and am gonna try another coat. I would like to try and ride in it later so hopefully it'll be dry by then. :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

You're very welcome. 

I love the older, well made saddles, and Stubbens especially. There's nothing quite like bringing back an older, neglected, well made leather saddle. 

Hope it fits your girl, and you like it.


----------



## mammakatja

I'd love to see a pic of it on your horse.  I think folks with Stubbens have their own little unwritten club. Kind of like my husband and his '74 Bronco. We can come across a total stranger driving a classic Bronco down the road and they wave at each other like they've known each other for years. LOL!


----------



## Speed Racer

I've found there is very little gray area with Stubbens. People either love 'em, or they hate 'em.

They're not cushy saddles and were never meant to be, but danged if they aren't beautifully made and last just about forever! 

I tell people if they don't like a firm seat they're not going to like a Stubben, especially an older one.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I've used a full 16 oz bottle of neatsfoot and it's still sucking it down. Omg it'll never end! :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Poor thing! It must have been neglected a really long time!


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

So I was told not to 'over oil' the saddle. So, should I stop? She's still sucking oil but the leather color is pretty dark now from me oiling it so much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Yes, let it rest overnight. 

How does the leather feel? Is it pliable? You didn't oil the suede patches, right? Plus you oiled the saddle all over, including underneath and in between all the flaps, as well as the billets?

I think I got as much oil on myself as the saddle, the last time I brought one back!


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I can feel it getting softer but is still pretty stiff. Ive oiled every surface, crack, and crevese (sp?) of This saddle. :lol: I didn't oil the knee rolls, I mean I did get some on there but I plan on replacing the rolls at some point. the bottom flap is very stiff (the flap that would actually be on the horse) I've oiled the hell out of that an it's not getting any softer. All day I'd oil it, it would suck up all the oil, then I'd reapply and repeat. I put some on an hour ago too but gonna let that go over night even though it's already sucked up. Thank you for all your help SR! This saddle is driving me bonkers!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DriftingShadow

Oh man this thread makes me sick to my stomach. I sold the EXACT same saddle just last week for $100. I had used it forever, and I even fixed what needed to be fixed on it before I sold it.

That makes me just want to bang my head on the wall, seeing I could have sold it for more. Oh well. You live and you learn I guess ha ha


----------



## Speed Racer

Cowgirls Boots said:


> Thank you for all your help SR! This saddle is driving me bonkers!!


You're welcome. I love bringing old saddles back to their former beauty and usefulness. 

Just keep at it, CB. If the leather isn't pliable yet, then it still needs more oil. I used a full 16 oz bottle on mine, and it wasn't anywhere near as dry as yours. 

Don't forget to set it out in the sun in between sets of oiling. That will help, too.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I was told to oil it then use a bar of saddle soap then buy the Passier Lederbalsam. Am gonna go to the local tack shop and see what they got.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Lederbalsam is great, but it's not going to be cheap. I'm not sure why you were told to buy saddle soap. The saddle doesn't need cleaning, it needs conditioning.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I had a lady from my barn who is a saddle restorer look at the saddle and she told me to not oil it anymore. I already bought Effax leather balm so I'll do a light coat of that. She also told me the leathers hang so low because they are very stretched out but still in rideable condition.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer

Very cool. Glad you could get some 'real life' help.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

So the lady at my barn said she will re-stuff the knee rolls with either wool or memory foam, fix the leather keepers on both sides, fill the small hole in the seat, dye the knee rolls dark brown, restitch the knee rolls at the top and bottom where they are separating, and give me one new billet flap all for $150. Reasonable or no? Also, what would be better- knee rolls filled with wool or filled with memory foam?

I rode in the saddle today and loved it. The seat was a bit hard but the saddle was so comfy on my legs! I also think it fits my mare pretty darn well!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calicokatt

Yay! I use a quick application of a bar of fiebing's glycerine saddle soap after cleaning, oiling and conditioning to sort of 'seal' the leather back up and make it not tacky. Works great for us. Also helps to restore a little bit of 'shine' to the saddle. 

We have several Stubbens, and love them all! I had an old, all suede stubben training saddle that I bought from an old girlfriend when her mom passed away. Her mom had gotten it as a valentine's gift when my friend and I were girls, and I had ridden in that saddle frequently since I was 14. When it finally wore out, (the suede tore around the stitching), I replaced it with a Siegfried VSD. My mom had tried my suede one and loved it so much that she bought a Siegfried CS with the same measurements, I later bought that from her. She found that she regretted selling and bought another one. We've never had a problem with our Stubbens, and I personally find them more comfortable than other english saddles. In our mostly western community, I frequently get comments on how nice my english saddles are, especially if I let someone ride one.


----------



## Speed Racer

CB, that's a very reasonable price for all that she's going to do. Have you seen any other work of hers, though? I'd be leery of letting someone cut open my saddle whose restoration work I haven't seen.

I'd use wool for reflocking. You'll devalue the saddle if you put memory foam in it.


----------



## Cowgirls Boots

I asked for pics of her work even though she showed me a few the pixs were dark and hard to see.  saddle fits the pony pretty darn good. Although, I can't tell if it's too snug on her wither or I I'm just over paranoid. We will see though. Am hopefully having the trainer out this Sunday so maybe she will be able to check for me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

