# Horse Eye Color



## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Cremello is caused when two copies of cream act upon a red base coat. Palomino is caused when one copy acts upon a red base coat.
With the dam being red with no cream, the only possible outcome was a palomino, as the sire would be homozygous for cream and only pass on one copy, not two.
Blue eyes is caused by the 2 cream genes in the case of a cremello.
Blue eyes on the mare is probably caused by a white gene such as splash (she appears to carry sabino as well), which she may or may not have passed onto the foal.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

lilruffian said:


> Cremello is caused when two copies of cream act upon a red base coat. Palomino is caused when one copy acts upon a red base coat.
> With the dam being red with no cream, the only possible outcome was a palomino, as the sire would be homozygous for cream and only pass on one copy, not two.
> Blue eyes is caused by the 2 cream genes in the case of a cremello.
> Blue eyes on the mare is probably caused by a white gene such as splash (she appears to carry sabino as well), which she may or may not have passed onto the foal.


LOL! I understand the cream and palomino thing, that was deliberate. 

We were thinking he'd probably have blue eyes since both parents have blue eyes (based on our not real great understanding of people genetics and blue being recessive in humans). So, since he has brown eyes, that kind of tossed us for a loop. In horses is it more linked to the coat color genes and modifiers than just eye color? I need to do more studying.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I don't understand it either Dreamcatcher. We have a gelding that has 1 partial blue eye. Now not only did his sire or dam not have blue eyes, neither did his grandparents, I've personally seen 3 of them and asked the breeder of his dam if her sire had blue eyes (answer was no). Neither his dam or sire had any other offspring with blue eyes and he even has a full brother with more white on his face than him and he has 2 brown eyes.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Blue eyes in horses are causing by marking genetics. Just like how frame can hide in solid colord horses the marking responible for blue eyes can hide. 

This could be caused by the Sabino









These can be caused from the splash gene as well

















Theses are caused from the creme gene


























Green or amber eyes stem from the Champagne gene.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Genetically Skip has brown eyes. The cream gene dilutes the coat, in single form it does not effect the eyes, in double it dilutes the eyes as well as the coat, turning them blue or green, but genetically they are still brown.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Those pesky genes certainly can hide ;-)

If you look at our bay tobi Paint, Angel, with 2 blue eyes, her face white may give something away, but just _casually_ looking at her pedigree you would certainly not expect to see blue eyes.


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## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> LOL! I understand the cream and palomino thing, that was deliberate.
> 
> We were thinking he'd probably have blue eyes since both parents have blue eyes (based on our not real great understanding of people genetics and blue being recessive in humans). So, since he has brown eyes, that kind of tossed us for a loop. In horses is it more linked to the coat color genes and modifiers than just eye color? I need to do more studying.


Eye colors always get me confused. I shall never understand horse eye colors - mine always have dark eyes, but then again they are all black based (different shades of bay and brown). But human eyes drive me nuts too. I was taught blue is recessive, but how then, with 2 blue eyed parents, we are 3 different kids - eldest brother has dark brown eyes, I have blueish, greyish, greenish eyes with a brown sunflower around the iris (crazy, ey?) and my lil brother has blue eyes.
My dad said he had green eyes as a teenager, and then they turned blue, but retained the brown sunflower around the iris.. we never figured it out anyway. Mom said she didn't even know a postman with brown eyes, to cause my brother to have brown eyes 

genetics overall just drive me nuts


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

My bo had a appy gelding that was a varnish roan with a blanket, no facial white, and he had a partial blue eye, yet I owned a chestnut overo mare with a white face and two brown eyes. go figure. I love blue eyes on a horse.

As far as human genetics go, I was told blue eyes were recessive, brown dominant. My mother is brown eyed and my father green. My brother has green eyes and I have blue. Figure that one out.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

BlueSpark said:


> As far as human genetics go, I was told blue eyes were recessive, brown dominant. My mother is brown eyed and my father green. My brother has green eyes and I have blue. Figure that one out.


I think I find human eye genetics less confusing than horses!

Your mom has 1 brown, 1 blue gene (brown is dominant over blue). Your dad has 1 green, 1 blue (green is dominant over blue). Your brother got 1 blue from mom and 1 green from dad, so has green eyes. You got 1 blue from each parent so have blue. :lol:

And for the person who has blue eyes with brown around the iris.. that means you have a form of hazel eyes, which is not the same as just blue.

I figure if I can understand human genetics, maybe there is hope I can get a grip on horses eventually!! :wink:


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## JetdecksComet (Jun 11, 2013)

On human eye color, from Wikipedia (not the greatest source, but feel free to research further if you want, I'm on short time here. lol) 



> Humans and other animals have many phenotypic variations in eye color.[7] The genetics of eye color are complicated, and color is determined by multiple genes. So far, as many as 15 genes have been associated with eye color inheritance. Some of the eye-color genes include _OCA2_ and _HERC2_.[8] The once-held view that blue eye color is a simple recessive trait has been shown to be incorrect. The genetics of eye color are so complex that almost any parent-child combination of eye colors can occur.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_color#cite_note-9


 So basically... they really don't know what causes eye color in humans. ha ha

In horses, as the others have said, the blue is either caused by double dilution of the cream gene, or by one of the pinto patterns (mostly thought to be caused by frame or splash, but no tests to prove that.) So your mare has the blue eyes from frame or splash, and your stallion has the blue eyes from being a double dilute. The foal has the normal brown eyes that they both have the genetics for, but is being covered up by the other causes. So, we know the foal couldn't get blue eyes from being double dilute, because the mare is not a dilute. He could have gotten blue from frame or splash, but he didn't. Now, that doesn't mean he doesn't have frame or splash... he could have the pattern gene, but just isn't showing the blue eye(s) from it.

(I hope that makes sense, I'm in a hurry! lol)


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## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

phantomhorse13 said:


> I think I find human eye genetics less confusing than horses!
> 
> Your mom has 1 brown, 1 blue gene (brown is dominant over blue). Your dad has 1 green, 1 blue (green is dominant over blue). Your brother got 1 blue from mom and 1 green from dad, so has green eyes. You got 1 blue from each parent so have blue. :lol:
> 
> ...


So we have brown, blue, green and hazel genes in our family? And how can human eyes be green up to the age 17-20 but then turn blueish grey? Mine have always been the weirdest color


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## wakiya (Feb 7, 2009)

In short, blue eyes from white patterns and blue eyes from the cream gene should be treated as entirely different eye colors. They don't affect one another and are caused by different genes and can coexist like on this horse:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v12/65459/Paints/dualblueeye.jpg


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Ok, I guess I get it, the blue eyes on horses are caused by different genetics than I was taught on humans, which turns out to be totally out of date and not apply anyhow! :lol:

My mare and stallion are both LWO N/N btw. I think she's probably got splash and I intend to do some testing, don't know about the stallion, he doesn't appear to have splash but hasn't been tested.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> LOL! I understand the cream and palomino thing, that was deliberate.
> 
> We were thinking he'd probably have blue eyes since both parents have blue eyes (based on our not real great understanding of people genetics and blue being recessive in humans). So, since he has brown eyes, that kind of tossed us for a loop. In horses is it more linked to the coat color genes and modifiers than just eye color? I need to do more studying.


Didn't mean to make it sound like you didn't known about the colors lol just wanted to get a good clear perspective on the situation. In cremellos the blue eyes are caused by 2 cream genes. Take one away, as you would when crossing with a horse with no cream, and the chances for blue eyes disappears. After that, blue eyes will be caused by a white gene as the dam exhibits, though it seems she did not pass hers onto the foal.:wink:


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## JetdecksComet (Jun 11, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Ok, I guess I get it, the blue eyes on horses are caused by different genetics than I was taught on humans, which turns out to be totally out of date and not apply anyhow! :lol:
> 
> My mare and stallion are both LWO N/N btw. I think she's probably got splash and I intend to do some testing, don't know about the stallion, he doesn't appear to have splash but hasn't been tested.


 Just don't be shocked if they come back negative for splash, too. My mare has one blue eye and has tested negative for frame and all testable forms of splash. :? So much we don't know yet!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

JetdecksComet said:


> Just don't be shocked if they come back negative for splash, too. My mare has one blue eye and has tested negative for frame and all testable forms of splash. :? So much we don't know yet!


Oh heck, I remember when they discovered Sabino.....that was pretty darn exciting! LOL! It seems like I have to go back and learn more every single year, they're discovering so much about this color DNA stuff. It's pretty fascinating.


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## Pagancat (Feb 11, 2013)

^^^ Agreed!


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## JetdecksComet (Jun 11, 2013)

I know, I'm so obsessed with it my boyfriend thinks I need to go to college and get a degree to work in a lab for this stuff. lol I'd much prefer just to have a huge acreage and tons of money to blow so I could experiment with the breeding end of it. (With _quality_ colored horses, of course!)


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

There are two genes that determine the blue/brown inheritance in people. In order to have blue eyes you must have one completely recessive set. So using O and H with double oo being dominant over HH this is what happens
OOHH = brown
OOHh = brown
OOhh = blue because of the completely recessive set.
OoHH = brown
OoHh = brown
Oohh = blue because of the recessive set again.
. ooHH = blue because oo is dominate over any H
. ooHh= blue 
. oohh = blue
Adding in the genes that determine green makes things even more confusing. The way I have seen it explained in genetics class is that if you have a complete gene you have color and if your gene is broken the color cannot express and you have no color (blue) O is complete whether OO or Oo but can be "broken" by hh (recessive set rule). oo is broken and cannot express color no matter H status.
Hopefully that makes it clear as mud.

Oohh and ooHh are both blue eyed but would have a 1/4 chance of a brown eyed child that would be OoHh
ooHH and OOhh marrying would have an even higher chance of a blue eyed baby.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Those last three should be oo but auto correct won't let me enter it that way or shall we say I enter it correctly and when I edit it shows it correct but when I hit save it converts.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

:shock: You lost me at HH........LOL! :lol:


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Eye color genetics give me a headache.


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## winnieismygal (May 5, 2014)

PaintHorseMares said:


> Those pesky genes certainly can hide ;-)
> 
> If you look at our bay tobi Paint, Angel, with 2 blue eyes, her face white may give something away, but just _casually_ looking at her pedigree you would certainly not expect to see blue eyes.


 
What a pretty horse!!


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