# Opinion on Freisian and Quarter horse cross?



## Little Miss Country

I have been thinking about doing this for a while and would value opinions. I am planning to breed my 14 year old quarter horse mare:









She has a very quiet disposition and is an amazing horse. Very smart and will do anything the rider wants no matter the level. 

Her parents were palomino and red roan.

I am planning to breed her to a gorgeous 16.3 hand black freisian. I don't have a picture of the actual stud but, for those unfamiliar with what a freisian looks like, here is a random picture off google:










Opinions Please? Do you think the cross will be good? What color do you think it would result in? I have a lot of positive responses from breeders who are really intrigued by the idea and very curious on the results.


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## waresbear

Well good luck with that.


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## kayleeloveslaneandlana

Ehh I really don't think the results will be good.... I find the breeds so different and I just don't think the mix will even be that pretty. I say find yourself another really good QH or maybe a TB if your interested. Just my opinion, but really it's your choice.


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## Little Miss Country

Deffinately a negative on the TB. Lol 

And yes this is a very different cross. And I imagine this is the reason so many of the breeders are curious about the results. The woman, who owns the freisian stud, was the one who gave me the idea and told me she has bred to many breeds and has seen some odd breedings but they have all turned out very well.

But ths is just an idea... and that is why I am asking around as much as possible. I know for a fact I want to breed her though. Just trying to decide if I want to see her with a freisian.


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## amp23

Yeah... I couldn't see that working out well. Both breeds are good looking, but together I doubt you'll get a good looking horse. QH x TB is much more realistic. If you happen to find a picture of a "real-life" QH x Friesian, please post it.. I'm curious.


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## amp23

Little Miss Country said:


> Deffinately a negative on the TB. Lol
> 
> And yes this is a very different cross. And I imagine this is the reason so many of the breeders are curious about the results. The woman, who owns the freisian stud, was the one who gave me the idea and told me she has bred to many breeds and has seen some odd breedings but they have all turned out very well.
> 
> But ths is just an idea... and that is why I am asking around as much as possible. I know for a fact I want to breed her though.



Sorry for double post, we posted at same time..

But what's so bad about a TB?


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## Little Miss Country

"real-life" QH x Friesian? You say that like I am the only one who has ever had the idea. I am not the only one nor will I be the last. Google could show you pictures of QH/Friesian cross. 

And I am not going to breed her with a TB. And as for realistic? This is a realistic decision. Logical, I am not sure on. That is why I am asking for opinions.

I would like to know why they wouldn't go well with one another though


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## Little Miss Country

amp23 said:


> Sorry for double post, we posted at same time..
> 
> But what's so bad about a TB?


 
Lol and its ok and TB is a great breed. I just don't want to breed her to one.


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## Super Nova

Breeding a quarter horse to a Freisan wouldn't be something I would choose.

I would think you would have better luck breeding her to another quarter horse or a TB.....its hard to tell as I can see a conformation of your horse.

I have a quarter horse, clyde cross that I breed to a Holstiener that turned on really nice.

I do know that Freisans cross quiet well with the saddle bred horse.....

here is a link Grande Isle Farm breeder of Georgian Grande Horses


Super Nova


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## Little Miss Country

Yeah but I am not going to breed her to a TB. I can't find a decent enough TB stud and I honestly just want something different.


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## franknbeans

Here is my opinion. Take it for what it is worth. You want to breed simply because you love your horse. Pretty much all of us think our horse is sweet, smart, etc...yadayada. What would be her accomplishments? What would a Fresian add to her conformation, abilities to do the discipline you are hoping for with the foal.....etc. I have a feeling you see the pretty black horsey and want one like that. 

Grade horses are great. I have 2, so I have nothing against them. However-breeding them is a total crap shoot. You may get something totally hideous in conformation and looks that gets all the worst traits of its parents. Or, they can be spectacular. You just don't know, and with the glut of horses right now why not just get yourself one you like. It will be cheaper and more predictable than breeding one.

I would also suggest you lose the defensiveness that I read in your last post or 2-you will most likely be flamed here for wanting to be nothing more than a back yard breeder.


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## Delfina

It's impossible to make an educated comment when all we have to go on is an un-pictured stallion and a non-conformation picture of the mare.

For all we know, the stallion could be the worst conformed Friesian to ever set foot on Earth and it wouldn't be a good idea to breed anything to it!


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## Kayty

They are two VERY different breeds, that generally, would not compliment each other. If you want something different, why not buy it rather than breed and hope for the best? 
I would also be concerned that the stud owner is willing to put his stud over your mare, and that they are so open about all of the 'odd' breedings they have done. 
Most genuine stud owners, will only breed to approved mare that will make their stud look good as a sire.


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## DrumRunner

I personally wouldn't do it...I'm also a firm believer in not breeding horses because "It's my horse, she's great, I love her and want a piece of her." That is not a good idea at all and no reason to breed. Second, the foal would be grade, while that isn't terrible it isn't exactly good either...There are just way too many horses out there that need homes and people are giving these horses away now. Why?? Because of over population and over breeding. 

Say you breed the pair..What exactly are your plans with the foal? Do you have everything necessary for a pregnant mare and soon a foal? Are you financially capable of paying numerous vet bills? Are you going to be able to keep up with the mares well being and health while pregnant? A pregnant mare have different and more tedious needs/care than just a regular mare. Do you have enough pasture/area for separating the two when it comes time to wean the foal? If it's a colt are you going to be able to geld him?...Lastly are you prepared to risk the life of your mare? and the foals life? It is VERY possible they BOTH can die during foaling. If the mare dies are you willing and able to be constantly with it to feed it and take care of it? Since it's a grade foal it won't have near as much value as a registered foal..What if something happens and you have to sell the foal? Producing grade horses is just breeding for the kill pens. When breeding you want to give the foal the absolute BEST chance at a good life, with or without you. 

I've said it many many times on the forum..Breeding horses should be left to the breeders. If you are truly set on having a foal..look around you, there are soooo many young horses that need homes.

I have an appendix QH/TB mare, and she is my best horse. The QH and TB breed compliment eachother and the different traits blend well...I just don't see where the two breeds you are wanting to mix, who are SO vastly different, will produce a nice foal.


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## QOS

It is hard to say without pictures of both. My friend does have a lovely Friesian/Morgan cross. Hershey is a wonderful guy that she events on. I have never seen Hershey's Friesian sire but I have seen his dam, the Morgan, many times. 

He is a lovely horse.


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## cmarie

Kayty said:


> They are two VERY different breeds, that generally, would not compliment each other. If you want something different, why not buy it rather than breed and hope for the best?
> I would also be concerned that the stud owner is willing to put his stud over your mare, and that they are so open about all of the 'odd' breedings they have done.
> Most genuine stud owners, will only breed to approved mare that will make their stud look good as a sire.


posters are saying they wouldn't compliment each other but not say why they wouldn't, that's not a question I can answer can anyone say why?


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## Ladybug2001

I'm going to agree with everyone else, and say don't do it. If you really want a cross, go with something that is a little more closer to the same class as your mare. Thoroughbred, Saddlebred, Paint, Warmblood maybe.

And... for giggles. xD







 
This horse doesn't look quiet right to me...


I do not believe they would compliment each other due to one is a draft and the other stock. QHs are just to lean for me to be able to picture a cross coming out well porportioned and conformed.


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## Kayty

A quarters horse built to have very solid quarters, flat, short paces etc.
A friesian is a cart horse. Built uphill, with very high stepping action.
They are very, VERY different horses. 
If you're going to breed, cross two horses that are fairly similar in basic conformation, and with conformational features that will compliment each other.


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## Ladytrails

I have a QH that is an angel... so a few years ago tried to decide whether to breed her to a gaited stud, so as to get a gaited horse eventually. My idea was that I'd raise up the baby and have a replacement horse ready to ride by the time my QH mare was retired. 

Well, I was advised that the odds were stacked against getting all the attributes I wanted - attitude, looks, conformation, gaitedness, etc. In fact, I had the same high odds of only getting all of the attributes I didn't want -- mismatched conformation, not gaited, or choppy gaits, clonky head from gaited horse bloodlines, etc. If you knew what types of babies the Friesian threw, and what their dams looked like, and also had an idea of what your mare produced when crossed with certain types of sires, you might have an guesstimate of what you could expect. In my mare's case, she was bred by different owners and always threw her pretty head and attitude, but the conformation and color and coat came from whatever stud she was bred to. It really depends on what type of QH bloodlines and sire prepotency you're working with. If that's what you want, I would suggest looking around and buying that cross - you get to pick sex, color, and make sure the combo of attributes is what you're looking for.


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## DrumRunner

cmarie said:


> posters are saying they wouldn't compliment each other but not say why they wouldn't, that's not a question I can answer can anyone say why?


Because the breeds are sooo vastly different. They are bred for different traits, abilities, and disciplines..


The biggest point being..You want to breed horses that compliment each other and set up the best chance for a well conformed and nice foal. Breeding isn't just putting a mare and stud together and hoping for the best...It's a studied art that should be left to breeders...Not a back yard breeder..Especially not mixing two completely different breeds and not having a clue as to what you'll end up with.


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## DraftyAiresMum

franknbeans said:


> Grade horses are great. I have 2, so I have nothing against them. However-breeding them is a total crap shoot. You may get something totally hideous in conformation and looks that gets all the worst traits of its parents. Or, they can be spectacular. You just don't know, and with the glut of horses right now why not just get yourself one you like. It will be cheaper and more predictable than breeding one.


+1 on this!! My gelding is as grade as they come. He's a Percheron/paint cross. Not generally something I'd expect to see (except from a PMU farm, maybe). He came out with the best traits of both. The Percheron build and size with the lovely paint markings, and the nice draft horse personality and intelligence. His half-sister (same fugly paint sire) didn't fair so well. She's long-backed, her neck ties in funny and is just weirdly built in general, her legs are a mess, and as a coming-3yo she's about 6" butt high (a solid 15hh at the withers and 16.2hh at the butt). Not only that, she's not the sharpest tool in the shed and she's honestly a bit hot. They came from the same sire (APHA stallion Little Bit of Black) with nearly identical Percheron dams (both big, typy black Percheron mares). 

Looking on Google at the Friesian/QH crosses, it looks like it can be a really good match or not so much. My question is this: what if you don't get the good side of the match? What happens if you get all the worst traits/qualities of both in the foal?


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## amp23

Little Miss Country said:


> "real-life" QH x Friesian? You say that like I am the only one who has ever had the idea. I am not the only one nor will I be the last. Google could show you pictures of QH/Friesian cross.
> 
> And I am not going to breed her with a TB. And as for realistic? This is a realistic decision. Logical, I am not sure on. That is why I am asking for opinions.
> 
> I would like to know why they wouldn't go well with one another though


I said that because I'd never heard of that cross, sorry. I was on my ipod and it was being slow so I wasn't going to try to search for pictures on it. I just did and honestly I think some are good looking, some aren't..


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## Evansk

amp23 said:


> Yeah... I couldn't see that working out well. Both breeds are good looking, but together I doubt you'll get a good looking horse. QH x TB is much more realistic. If you happen to find a picture of a "real-life" QH x Friesian, please post it.. I'm curious.


 I found one.. he's pretty 

Horses for Sale: 3 year old Quarter Horse/ Friesian

The American Quariesian - Horse breed, Horse breeding, types and breeds from Equiworld. ??


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## Kayty

First one had VERY average, weak conformation. Certainly not one I'd be using to represent an already 'interesting' cross


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## DraftyAiresMum

Evansk said:


> I found one.. he's pretty
> 
> Horses for Sale: 3 year old Quarter Horse/ Friesian
> 
> The American Quariesian - Horse breed, Horse breeding, types and breeds from Equiworld. ??


I'm not a huge fan of the conformation on that first one. Something about his hind end looks...off...to me. In the second actual confo pic, where he's not standing all stretched (not quite parked), his hind legs look terribly posty to me. And his shoulder looks fairly steep, indicating a rougher ride.

As for the second one...that is a horrible pic to get even a remote idea of how that horse is built. In fact, I don't even find the horse particularly attractive in the stance he's in.

Like franknbeans said, cross breeding anything is a crap-shoot. My dog is an australian shepherd/saint bernard mix. He combines the best of both breeds. Google the same mix and not all of them are as good-looking or well-built as he is. In fact, some of them are just plain odd-looking.


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## Evansk

Kayty said:


> First one had VERY average, weak conformation. Certainly not one I'd be using to represent an already 'interesting' cross


 I wasnt trying to represent an interesting breed. She wanted to see a picture and I found one. 



DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the conformation on that first one. Something about his hind end looks...off...to me. In the second actual confo pic, where he's not standing all stretched (not quite parked), his hind legs look terribly posty to me. And his shoulder looks fairly steep, indicating a rougher ride.
> 
> As for the second one...that is a horrible pic to get even a remote idea of how that horse is built. In fact, I don't even find the horse particularly attractive in the stance he's in.
> 
> Like franknbeans said, cross breeding anything is a crap-shoot. My dog is an australian shepherd/saint bernard mix. He combines the best of both breeds. Google the same mix and not all of them are as good-looking or well-built as he is. In fact, some of them are just plain odd-looking.



I wasnt really commenting on his overall body, I just liked his colour and star. I don't know a thing about the proper comformation for a cross .

Elysium Farm, Pembroke Ky

heres a Mare, When I look at her.. all i can see is that skinny neck and that head..and she's listed as a dark buckskin?? 

Im not saying that she should cross the breeds or anything like that, I just wanted other people to see what the cross can turn out to be. Since this is actually the first time I've ever googled the cross!


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## DrumRunner

Ok..I'm being really serious as I say this so yes, you can laugh and agree with me..The mare posted above looks like one of the horses on the horse game websites. Like the little games you can "design" your own horse but you can NEVER get it to look even remotely close to looking like your horse..The odd, never right, colors and awkward stances of the horses...Yeah right, my horse never looks like those little graphics that non-horse people THINK my horse looks like..

Am I the only one that thinks that?


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## amp23

I also googled it a few mins ago and wasn't impressed. I don't like either of the crosses you posted, to me they just look... odd. I personally would not pick this cross, but I guess to each their own.


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## Evansk

DrumRunner said:


> Ok..I'm being really serious as I say this so yes, you can laugh and agree with me..The mare posted above looks like one of the horses on the horse game websites. Like the little games you can "design" your own horse but you can NEVER get it to look even remotely close to looking like your horse..The odd, never right, colors and awkward stances of the horses...Yeah right, my horse never looks like those little graphics that non-horse people THINK my horse looks like..
> 
> Am I the only one that thinks that?



haha I totally agree!! She looks really odd. Like someone slapped a bunch of horse parts together.. and thought.. now thats a good looking horse.. Her color is nice.. but thats all I like..


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## Evansk

amp23 said:


> I also googled it a few mins ago and wasn't impressed. I don't like either of the crosses you posted, to me they just look... odd. I personally would not pick this cross, but I guess to each their own.


 I agree, I was looking through more pictures of the crosses and they just don't look right.. like something is off. 

And you are right to each their own, where we see an odd horse someone might see the perfect horse..


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## DraftyAiresMum

Evansk said:


> I wasnt really commenting on his overall body, I just liked his colour and star. I don't know a thing about the proper comformation for a cross .


Conformation for a cross is the same as conformation for any horse. Correct angles, length of certain limbs and areas (like neck, back, cannons, etc), size of bone in comparison to the size of the body. I've found that "pretty" doesn't cut it for crosses...especially unusual crosses like the OP is talking about. If the horse is flawed conformationally, those flaws are going to be there and be a detriment to the horse regardless of how "pretty" it is. The same can be said for any horse (pure or cross), but crosses have more working against them.


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## BarrelRacer23

I think its an odd cross that can go either way, although I don't think you have the best reason for breeding.

I knew there was a Frisian x QH cross for sale Id seen in my searches
Friesian/ Quarter Horse - Beauty
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evansk

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Conformation for a cross is the same as conformation for any horse. Correct angles, length of certain limbs and areas (like neck, back, cannons, etc), size of bone in comparison to the size of the body. I've found that "pretty" doesn't cut it for crosses...especially unusual crosses like the OP is talking about. If the horse is flawed conformationally, those flaws are going to be there and be a detriment to the horse regardless of how "pretty" it is. The same can be said for any horse (pure or cross), but crosses have more working against them.


 Ah i see, I've been reading lots of the posts in the conformation threads and have been noticing what people are pointing out. it's really interesting, but from what I've seen looking at this cross, I dont like at all. Some look smooshed then some look stretched out, think necks big heads.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Lv9gyRNGi...ZKRM/s1600/quarter+friesian+cross+gelding.jpg <--- Gelding from before, is it me or do his front hooves look funny?


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## DraftyAiresMum

BarrelRacer23 said:


> I think its an odd cross that can go either way, although I don't think you have the best reason for breeding.
> 
> I knew there was a Frisian x QH cross for sale Id seen in my searches
> Friesian/ Quarter Horse - Beauty
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm hoping they just didn't get the best pics of the mare 'cuz she does not look like she got the best of any world. :-|



Evansk said:


> Ah i see, I've been reading lots of the posts in the conformation threads and have been noticing what people are pointing out. it's really interesting, but from what I've seen looking at this cross, I dont like at all. Some look smooshed then some look stretched out, think necks big heads.


This is just my observation on this particular cross, but I think it varies so much because QHs are so varied. You've got your halter-bred QHs, your working QHs (heck, there's even a lot of variation in looks between your cow horses versus your running horses), and your "average" run-of-the-mill QHs. So, that lends itself to the crosses to a horse that is very standardized (you can look at a Friesian, ANY Friesian, and say "Why yes, THAT is a Friesian") being all over the place as far as looks goes. Could be wrong, but that's what I'm seeing. 

Also, if you've ever taken biology, you've done the little boxes determining genes and all that (can't remember what they're called...biology was a while ago lol). Anyway, when I took Biology 181 in college, we did the boxes with coyotes. Mountain coyotes (taller, gray, smaller ears) mixed with lowland coyotes (shorter, tan, big ears). The variations that were possible within one litter were amazing. Now, apply that to horses taking a horse that's (generally) shorter, boxier, built like a tank, with long low gaits for stamina, and cross it with a horse that is tall, longer, a bit heavier, but still elegant, with high-stepping cart/carriage horse gaits, but you can only have one of those potential outcomes (instead of being able to display all potential outcomes, like you would in a litter of coyotes) and it's even more of a crap-shoot.

ETA: Just looked at the link you just put up...he is in DESPERATE need of a trim on those fronts. Eep! :shock:


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## Evansk

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm hoping they just didn't get the best pics of the mare 'cuz she does not look like she got the best of any world. :-|
> 
> 
> 
> This is just my observation on this particular cross, but I think it varies so much because QHs are so varied. You've got your halter-bred QHs, your working QHs (heck, there's even a lot of variation in looks between your cow horses versus your running horses), and your "average" run-of-the-mill QHs. So, that lends itself to the crosses to a horse that is very standardized (you can look at a Friesian, ANY Friesian, and say "Why yes, THAT is a Friesian") being all over the place as far as looks goes. Could be wrong, but that's what I'm seeing.
> 
> Also, if you've ever taken biology, you've done the little boxes determining genes and all that (can't remember what they're called...biology was a while ago lol). Anyway, when I took Biology 181 in college, we did the boxes with coyotes. Mountain coyotes (taller, gray, smaller ears) mixed with lowland coyotes (shorter, tan, big ears). The variations that were possible within one litter were amazing. Now, apply that to horses taking a horse that's (generally) shorter, boxier, built like a tank, with long low gaits for stamina, and cross it with a horse that is tall, longer, a bit heavier, but still elegant, with high-stepping cart/carriage horse gaits, but you can only have one of those potential outcomes (instead of being able to display all potential outcomes, like you would in a litter of coyotes) and it's even more of a crap-shoot.
> 
> ETA: Just looked at the link you just put up...he is in DESPERATE need of a trim on those fronts. Eep! :shock:


I knew his hooves were funky! it caught my eye they didnt look right at all! I see what you mean, I did take BIO and the boxes that you use to put the Dominate and Recessive genes to determine what the out come will be, so its like a 1 in lets say 100?(haha is that a too high of a number?!) chance that you'll get a balanced cross between the two without it looking weird?


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## DraftyAiresMum

Evansk said:


> I see what you mean, I did take BIO and the boxes that you use to put the Dominate and Recessive genes to determine what the out come will be, so its like a 1 in lets say 100?(haha is that a too high of a number?!) chance that you'll get a balanced cross between the two without it looking weird?


Precisely!  

This is the way I look at it when considering breeding (especially crosses). It's difficult enough taking into consideration the balancing between all the different traits of the sire and dam when they are the same breed and therefore have relatively the same general build. By crossing two individuals who are built absolutely nothing alike, it's nearly impossible to effectively balance their faults because of how different their build may be. Yes, the upright neck carriage (and higher neck tie in) may be considered desirable on a Friesian, but it's a major fault on a QH...so how do you balance that? Factor in all the different genes (neck length, back length, leg shape, etc) and you're playing the odds pretty steep that you'll end up with something good.

BTW, this is all just my honest opinion and should be taken as such.


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## franknbeans

I honestly don't think it is a necessarily "bad" cross. Personally, I love draft crosses-I have one. I just think Fresians are somewhat of a new "fad". The "designer horse" of the time, so to speak (just like they are breeding mutts and calling them "designer dogs" like my "morkie"...lol) That was all I could think of when I saw that "quaresian" site. YIKES!

But-like I said before-you are basically throwing genes into a hat and pulling out willy-nilly. You have NO idea what will come out. Truly. Some are pretty wonky.:wink:

I also think we have lost the OP-guess we have lost another new member who didn't like what we had to say, and that we didn't agree that they had a "special widdle poneh," who should be reproduced.:wink:

Oh-and sidebar My genetics example-my daughter and I both have "morkies". TOTALLY different. Hers looks more like a dachshund cross with yorkie fur, SMART!.....mine-solid black (out of a yorkie and white maltese?)-dumb as a box of rocks.:wink:


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## DraftyAiresMum

Franknbeans, my mom's maltipoo is the same way! People think maltipoo and they think fluffy, white, looks kinda poodle-ish with the more maltese soft fur. We call DD our reject. Her front legs are about 3" long and her back legs are about 6" long, and she's build like a friggin' bulldog. She looks like neither a maltese or a poodle (okay, her face might be a little poodle-ish, if it wasn't for one of her bottom incisors being crooked) and she's the color of a dust bunny. She looked like a Tribble when she was a puppy because of how much fur she had. Smart as heck, though. 

As for that "quaresian" site...the whole site (Equiworld, I think it was called) reminds me of this site for dog "breeds": dogbreedinfo.com .


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## Evansk

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Precisely!
> 
> This is the way I look at it when considering breeding (especially crosses). It's difficult enough taking into consideration the balancing between all the different traits of the sire and dam when they are the same breed and therefore have relatively the same general build. By crossing two individuals who are built absolutely nothing alike, it's nearly impossible to effectively balance their faults because of how different their build may be. Yes, the upright neck carriage (and higher neck tie in) may be considered desirable on a Friesian, but it's a major fault on a QH...so how do you balance that? Factor in all the different genes (neck length, back length, leg shape, etc) and you're playing the odds pretty steep that you'll end up with something good.
> 
> BTW, this is all just my honest opinion and should be taken as such.


 I agree with your opinion and im happy you went into detail/explained your views on it.  



franknbeans said:


> I honestly don't think it is a necessarily "bad" cross. Personally, I love draft crosses-I have one. I just think Fresians are somewhat of a new "fad". The "designer horse" of the time, so to speak (just like they are breeding mutts and calling them "designer dogs" like my "morkie"...lol) That was all I could think of when I saw that "quaresian" site. YIKES!
> 
> But-like I said before-you are basically throwing genes into a hat and pulling out willy-nilly. You have NO idea what will come out. Truly. Some are pretty wonky.:wink:
> 
> I also think we have lost the OP-guess we have lost another new member who didn't like what we had to say, and that we didn't agree that they had a "special widdle poneh," who should be reproduced.:wink:
> 
> Oh-and sidebar My genetics example-my daughter and I both have "morkies". TOTALLY different. Hers looks more like a dachshund cross with yorkie fur, SMART!.....mine-solid black (out of a yorkie and white maltese?)-dumb as a box of rocks.:wink:


 I was lucky to have a TB/Percheron Mare for most of my life and she was the best thing ever! You would have never guess she had TB in her! I love draft crosses but I think it depends on what you cross it with.

I guess I kinda took over the thread a bit! haha but I like to understand and see peoples view on this cross or crosses in general.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Don't get me wrong, Evansk. I have a draft cross and he is absolutely AMAZING! He is my once-in-a-lifetime horse, no question. 

What amazes me is that this sexy beastly (this is him last summer...he looks too much like a wooly mammoth for me to put up winter pics ):








is half-brother to this unfortunate filly (yes, she is THAT butt-high...it's even more pronounced now...these were taken this past summer):

















They share the same unfortunate sire:


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## Evansk

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Don't get me wrong, Evansk. I have a draft cross and he is absolutely AMAZING! He is my once-in-a-lifetime horse, no question.
> 
> What amazes me is that this sexy beastly (this is him last summer...he looks too much like a wooly mammoth for me to put up winter pics ):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is half-brother to this unfortunate filly (yes, she is THAT butt-high...it's even more pronounced now...these were taken this past summer):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They share the same unfortunate sire:



Your horse is gorgeous! He looks so muscular and shiny.. Its amazing how much he looks different than his half-sister, but its show what you explained. 

These are some pictures of my TB Perch. Cross, She passed on two years ago but she was the best horse I ever had. great disposition and what not.. But when i looked through her pictures it seems she didnt have the best conformation, but I guess it didn't matter since she put up with me for 15+ years haha!


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## DraftyAiresMum

Another thing you'd have to think about, OP, would be special tack or trailer requirements of the foal. Some Friesians can top 17hh. If I remember correctly, standard horse trailers are suited for horses just barely over 16hh. Not sure how tall your mare is, but depending on who the foal takes after, you might need to buy a bigger/taller trailer. A perfect example: Aires' sire, who I pictured, is 15.1hh. Aires is already 16hh (16.1-16.2hh at the butt...yay for growth spurts) and a long two-year-old, so he's definitely taking after his Percheron dam. He's also built like a tank (it's like riding a barrel), so he's wider than a "normal" horse. His half-sister (pictured) wears a large horse halter. Aires has to have a small draft (our bridle is draft sized as well). We're already into FQHB for saddles...by the time he's done growing and filled out, we'll need draft saddles.

What I'm getting at is that you'd be crossing your relatively normal-sized mare with a draft horse (albeit a light draft, but a draft nonetheless). Are you prepared for the extra cost associated with buying tack and equipment...and feed...for a (potentially) larger horse? And trust me, draft tack is MUCH more expensive than regular-sized horse tack and, depending on where you live, harder to find. 

Evansk, your mare was beautiful. I love her head.  But yeah, her conformation wasn't the greatest (not that Aires' is, but it's definitely better than his half-sister's or his sire's...and our trainer absolutely loves him).


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## franknbeans

And...I will refrain from posting pics of Frank.....I think some of you saw him a couple of weeks ago, and the picture was less than flattering....lets just say the winter braids put on a few lbs. lol


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## DraftyAiresMum

franknbeans said:


> And...I will refrain from posting pics of Frank.....I think some of you saw him a couple of weeks ago, and the picture was less than flattering....lets just say the winter braids put on a few lbs. lol


I'll post a winter pic of Aires (in all his wooly mammoth glory) if you put up a picture of Frank. ;-)


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## Evansk

Do it you two! I wanna see!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans

Have to promise not to laugh.....he is retired.....and wooly.....lol


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## Evansk

Promise 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

Can't be any worse than Aires. ;-) And I solemnly swear I am up to no...oh, wait. I mean, I solemnly sear not to laugh. lol


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## DraftyAiresMum

*Disclaimer: Yes, I know he's covered in burrs. Yes, he looks nothing like the stud muffin I posted before. He'll grow out of it, I promise. ;-)


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## franknbeans

Here you go. I just braided his mane and tail to keep them safe from mud and ice....not his best look.:shock:

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/weighty-dilemna-please-no-laughing-109133/

THere are also better pics in my profile, poor boy.


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## franknbeans

Aww-I love the woolies on Aires....... I love his color and markings!


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## DraftyAiresMum

franknbeans said:


> Aww-I love the woolies on Aires....... I love his color and markings!


Thanks! His woolies are...extreme, to say the least. I was worried about having to get him used to a blanket this winter (my old gelding wore a blanket, but he was a wimpy arab/saddlebred ). He's never SEEN a blanket, much less worn one. I was given a nice $400 custom blanket by one of our overnight boarders (was made for a horse that boarded with her and the horse was sold and the blanket abandoned...so she gave it to me because it was too big for any of the other horses)...then he went *POOF*...and the blanket (with matching full hood) sits folded up in our tack box. lol

And I think you did a helluva lot better job braiding Frank's mane than I did braiding my old gelding's mane (after I trimmed it with scissors and my friend freaked on me...long story). We called poor Dakota "Rasta Boy" until his mane grew out. lol


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## Evansk

They look good in their woolies! I think frank looks cute with his mane all braided up!

Aires looks good too! And I agree with franknbeans love the markings! The wrap on his leg, did he hurt himself ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

Evansk said:


> They look good in their woolies! I think frank looks cute with his mane all braided up!
> 
> Aires looks good too! And I agree with franknbeans love the markings! The wrap on his leg, did he hurt himself ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, those are just polo wraps. Provide a bit of support to his tendons since we were doing a rocky, hilly trail. I do notice I have them on wrong.  My only defense is that I was in a hurry and it's been a looooong time since I did polos. I want to get him SMBs, but he's so damned big that it's going to be hard finding them (his fetlocks are about 12" in diameter now).

Modeling his polos...and burrs:


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## MangoRoX87

Chances of you getting the pewrty blakc howrse wiht amzizng tale and so fayrytayl lyke is very unlikely.

Go to a rescue, there are lots of horses that look like Friesian crosses..or if you have to breed you mare THAT BAD, look up a homozygous QH. Breeding your mare to just get something different isn't too great of an idea...


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## trainerunlimited

I've seen some paint/friesian(sp?) crosses that were 3/4 friesian that looked good to me, but I would never own one because it seems to put a big blocky head on a not so big blocky body! I'm not a pro at conformation outside of what to look for in a reiner/cutter, so don't really know what to look for in other breeds.


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## Jessabel

Curiosity is no reason to breed. You're contemplating bringing another life into the world. That's nothing to take lightly.

I'm not crazy about _any_ kind of Friesian cross. I love Warlanders and _some_ Friesian x Morgans, but generally, Friesians do not cross well. They're too different to complement most other breeds. I would never think about crossing one with a QH. A foal that has a Friesian sire isn't automatically special or exotic. It's often quite the opposite.

If you're hellbent on breeding your mare, look for a good stock type stallion.


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## trainerunlimited

Jessabel said:


> Curiosity is no reason to breed. You're contemplating bringing another life into the world. That's nothing to take lightly.
> 
> I'm not crazy about _any_ kind of Friesian cross. I love Warlanders and _some_ Friesian x Morgans, but generally, Friesians do not cross well. They're too different to complement most other breeds. I would never think about crossing one with a QH. A foal that has a Friesian sire isn't automatically special or exotic. It's often quite the opposite.
> 
> If you're hellbent on breeding your mare, look for a good stock type stallion.


 
What is a Warlander? I've never heard of that term before.


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## toosexy4myspotz

Uh, I don't honestly think I have ever come across anybody that has ever crossed a Friesan with anything but a twh and I have only seen one of those. I would think smaller though cause your mare doesn't look like she is even close to 16.3 hh and with fries an being a bigger boned breed I would worry about complications with my mare more than anything. The only reason I say that is because one of the girls i used to work with bred her 15.1 hh paint mare to a 
16.3 hh draft/tb cross and the foal ended up dieing trying to come out of the birth canal and got lodged and a vet had to cut the foal into three pieces to be able to remove it from the mare. Idk it just seems very risky too me.


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## Evansk

trainerunlimited said:


> What is a Warlander? I've never heard of that term before.


 
International Warlander Society & Registry <--- This should help


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## DraftXDressage

As others have always mentioned, breeding becomes an even bigger crapshoot than it normally is when you're not breeding type to type. In this case, you'd be breeding carriage type (upright neck assembly, animated front end movement, generally bigger shoulder than hindquarter) to stock type (basically the exact opposite of everything I just mentioned). 

Beyond that, though, breeding a friesian cross really limits the quality of the friesian stallion you can use for the cross, since I believe stallions lose their approval if they breed non-friesian mares. A serious, conscientious stallion owner with a truly nice example of the breed is never going to forego his approval just to make some crossbred foals.


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## churumbeque

Evansk said:


> I found one.. he's pretty
> 
> Horses for Sale: 3 year old Quarter Horse/ Friesian
> 
> The American Quariesian - Horse breed, Horse breeding, types and breeds from Equiworld. ??


The 1st one was very extremely dissappointing.
The 2nd one is what I hope from a cross.

I think the sorrel gene is dominate so the baby would be sorrel so that would also be a dissappointment with a friesian cross.


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## NdAppy

Sorrel/chestnut is not dominate. Black is dominant. Even with breeding to a Frisian... if you get the right Frisian there is still a possibility of a red. 



churumbeque said:


> The 1st one was very extremely dissappointing.
> The 2nd one is what I hope from a cross.
> 
> I think the sorrel gene is dominate so the baby would be sorrel so that would also be a dissappointment with a friesian cross.


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## trainerunlimited

Most of the crosses on sorrel mares would have bay foals. It seems most of the friesian crosses I've seen have been bay, lol!


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## NdAppy

That depends if the red horse is carrying agouti or not...


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## eventerdrew

I mean...what would you use it for? Realistically, those are two breeds that _*I*_ believe should not cross.


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## trainerunlimited

Ya, I'm not as familiar with the genetic makeup differences of the different colors. With it not being known what the different colors have in them, I'd say the most common color when breeding a sorrel with a black is going to be bay, then sorrel after that. I think it is very rare to get a black foal out of a sorrel mare.


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## NdAppy

No it really isn't all that rare... you just have to know the genetics before breeding if that is what you are hoping for...


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## trainerunlimited

Hmm, Thats pretty neat to know. I still have a lot more growing to do in the genetics area, lol. I want to get my mare typed so I know her makeup, she is out of a buckskin stallion and a sorrel mare, so would be curious. What do you think? The buckskin isn't homozygous for black, don't know anything about the sorrel.


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## NdAppy

TU your mare is Ee A_ CRcr (in other words, a horse that is heterozygous for black, with at least one agouti, and one cream). The _ is for the unknown. We don't know by looking at what her parents are and what she i if she is heterozygous or homozygous for agouti. You know for SURE that she is at least heterozygous.


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## FeatheredFeet

I think we have all seen similar threads to this, on many forums. Cross breeding to Friesians has seemed to be the fad of the moment, for the last couple of years. There are unfortunately, tons about and often for sale. These often bred by those who see a big black horse, shaking a nice mane about and stutting his stuff, and want one just like him. 

I have a friend who has Friesians and it is correct, that those with quality horses, will never cross breed. To the untrained eye, I suspect most Friesians look alike, conformation problems and all. 

Little Miss Country, will hopefully show us a conformation shot of her mare and without a young rider, wearing no helmet. If she is bound and determined to breed, then a good confo shot of her mare, might help us give some ideas of a nice stallion who would compliment her. Being sweet and amazing, doesn't necessarily make her breeding material. I'm sure many of the thousands of horses sent to the killer auctions this year, had sweet and amazing dams.

LMC should give us an idea of her plans for this baby. Many who have done similar crosses, find the trot of the offspring, bone-jarring. Similar crosses often have very different body types from hoped for, but with the very large heads of the Friesian. Friesians seem very dominant in passing on their head type. Coming from a QH background, most riders do not take easily, to the very high head carriage of Friesians or Friesian crosses. 

I don't know what experience the OP has had with training, but training a F x QH colt, will no doubt be a whole lot different, from owning a nice quiet QH, which she possesses now. Add to that, several years before the horse is actually able to be ridden - and probably not by a child as her mare is now.

The OP says, "I have a lot of positive responses from breeders who are really intrigued by the idea and very curious on the results."

The majority of knowledgeable breeders these days, are not on the side of crossbreeding at all, given the numbers of unwanted horses sent to slaughter. Certainly not 'curious' about the results. 

To the OP.
You have been given lots of extremely good advice and thoughts here and by many very experienced horse owners and breeders. Please do take it all to heart and consider what you plan, very seriously. Breeding even the best to the best, is not for the faint of heart. Things go seriously wrong in the best of circumstances. You love your mare, it is obvious. Show us some better pics of her. If not, seriously note her faults and seek out a stallion who is correct where she lacks. Stick to QHs, if you like them. There are some wonderful QH studs around. And by the way, is she registered/papers up to date? If not, don't breed her at all. If you want another horse for the family, find one needing a home. There are thousands out there, waiting and some of super breeding and quality.

Lizzie


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## Laures

I am sorry but the horse a few comments up is just horrible.
It's like he's a couple of horses packed together.
Are they serious there is even 'The American Quaresian'?

The Quarter and the Fresian are two VERY different horses.
The Fresian was bred as a warhorse.Now it is a 'tuigpaard',wich means that it has to have the WOW factor and also has to have a lot of knee action but they tent to have weak backend.The neck is very upward build,they hold their head high.It is hard for a fresian to bend their neck like they have to do in dressage,not impossible but they have more problems with it than 'normal' dressage horses.
The Fresian is also a breed that isn't very healthy.
Combine that with the Quarter,who was bred for westernsports.Who has short(er) legs,very muscled build and high whithers + very horizontally build and you get the horse Evansk showed.

Why don't people stick with the purebreeds?OK,if they compliment eachother but a Quarter + a Fresian?


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## Evansk

Laures said:


> I am sorry but the horse a few comments up is just horrible.
> It's like he's a couple of horses packed together.
> Are they serious there is even 'The American Quaresian'?
> 
> The Quarter and the Fresian are two VERY different horses.
> The Fresian was bred as a warhorse.Now it is a 'tuigpaard',wich means that it has to have the WOW factor and also has to have a lot of knee action but they tent to have weak backend.The neck is very upward build,they hold their head high.It is hard for a fresian to bend their neck like they have to do in dressage,not impossible but they have more problems with it than 'normal' dressage horses.
> The Fresian is also a breed that isn't very healthy.
> Combine that with the Quarter,who was bred for westernsports.Who has short(er) legs,very muscled build and high whithers + very horizontally build and you get the horse Evansk showed.
> 
> Why don't people stick with the purebreeds?OK,if they compliment eachother but a Quarter + a Fresian?


 IMO - I dont think you have to stick to purebreds. If your going to cross your horse with another, you should be looking for similiar qualities of two horses that will produce a good mix. Lots of thought and research should be done before you crossbreed.


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## Laures

Like I said,if they compliment eachother it could be helpful.
Wich Quarter + Fresian don't


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## Evansk

Laures said:


> Like I said,if they compliment eachother it could be helpful.
> Wich Quarter + Fresian don't


  totally agree!


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## Laures

Haha,sorry if t wasnt that clear,i'm belgian so i usually don't do english


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## trainerunlimited

Wow, thats pretty neat! I love being able to talk to people from different countries!!! The American Quarisian(sp?), thats funny. People will find a name for anything, lol.


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## trainerunlimited

Here is an ad I found for another friesian paint cross, awkward looking to the extreme and only $2700! reg friesian cross for sale


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## Cowgirls Boots

I really wouldn't IMO all the crosses I googled look funky and look like someone just stuck there heads and neck on a friesan body and gave them funky lookin legs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countryryder

Crossing these two breeds could really go either way.I personally know of one QH/Friesian cross,and he turned out great;good conformation,nice head and legs,and moves very well.But on the other hand,there are some pretty strange looking ones of this cross out there..


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## countryryder

And as for conformation,different breeds have different versions of what is considered the ideal conformation,one thing that may be considered great for one breed will seem completely off to another breed.I guess it depends on what you prefer.But I agree that crossing certain breeds may result in some pretty strange looking creatures.


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## trainerunlimited

When I saw that filly, I didn't know what to think of her. To me, she looks like she has the big head, upright neck, and chest more like a friesian with the back end of a stock horse. I just didn't like the look of her front end at all.


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## Jessabel

_Quariesian_? :shock: They'll make a registry for anything these days.

That 3yo a few pages back was really weird. Kinda looks like a third-grader sculpted him out of Play Doh. You'd think that would be enough to keep people from breeding them. Apparently not.


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## its lbs not miles

First: Genetics being such an exact science anytime two animals breed it's a crap shoot. I've breed registered stock to other same breed registered stock and got less then desired results.

Breeds (new breeds, etc...): Unless you own a Takhi or Przewalski’s Horse you have an animal who's breed was created from other breeds being mixed. Even if it was 1,000 years ago. TB a few hundren years ago, Friesians many hundreds of years ago (probably the oldest European breed), QH less than 3 hundred years, TWH, RMH, ASB, etc... not even 200 years. All ultimately produced from the American Horse offspring and the gaited American Horse wasn't around for more than 100 years.

Both my mare and filly are crosses between two different breeds (Friesian/Saddlebred) that I wouldn't say had a lot in common except possibly shorter backs. And while I don't care for shows, I know quite a few people do show Friesian crosses. The Friesain Sport horse (which are crosses) is popular with people who compete in shows. I even know of them competing successfully in endurance runs.

North America has produced more breeds of horse in the past 300 years than any other country and some no longer exist. Possibly more than any country in history. The AQH popularity is taking off outside the US. Today many of the breeds we have today have lost much of what made them great breeds in the beginning through the process of breeding exclusively for show or racing qualities within the breed.
I for one think that breeding to get improved horses is always going to continue and hopefully always will. Just imagine what would be available for you to ride if not for people crossing different animals to come up with the breeds we have today. Some may go the way of the American Horse and those like it. Being replaced by better horses produced from cross breeding.


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## farley

I worked with a Freisian/Morgan and **** that was an awesome horse. My clients bought some proprty from San Diego and when they finally drove up to look at it they found a horse in the pasture. they later found out from thier neighbors what he was, they mentioned he was about 5 or 6 halter broke but said that the elderly man never broke him to ride. Poor thing had been left for two years on that property after he died, the neighbors werent horse people but had been feeding him and had started calling him Shaggy. My clients had never been around horses and where excited that their new farm came with a horse. They hired me to care and ride him. At first he didnt know what a saddle was and had no ground manners but 30 days later we were almost riding and two months after that I was trail riding and hauling him to local play days, we had our rough patches as any green horse does but he would catch on so quick. ...sure miss him.


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## Surprise 623

franknbeans said:


> I honestly don't think it is a necessarily "bad" cross. Personally, I love draft crosses-I have one. I just think Fresians are somewhat of a new "fad". The "designer horse" of the time, so to speak (just like they are breeding mutts and calling them "designer dogs" like my "morkie"...lol) That was all I could think of when I saw that "quaresian" site. YIKES!
> 
> But-like I said before-you are basically throwing genes into a hat and pulling out willy-nilly. You have NO idea what will come out. Truly. Some are pretty wonky.:wink:
> 
> I also think we have lost the OP-guess we have lost another new member who didn't like what we had to say, and that we didn't agree that they had a "special widdle poneh," who should be reproduced.:wink:
> 
> Oh-and sidebar My genetics example-my daughter and I both have "morkies". TOTALLY different. Hers looks more like a dachshund cross with yorkie fur, SMART!.....mine-solid black (out of a yorkie and white maltese?)-dumb as a box of rocks.:wink:



dachshund yorkie is a dorkie


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## xxBarry Godden

You have the internet - look up a Friesian stud in Holland and ask them. ALmost without a doubt they will speak & write English.
I suspect they might be horrified at the idea but the rules of breeding Friesians in Holland are strictly enforced so as to protect the purity of the breed.
But money lubricates. 

There is an old fashioned bloodstock line, which had a tendency to be used as
draft horses but now there is a modern lighter bloodstock line produced largely 
for the dressage market. They don't all look like the photo you posted but 
they are very often magnificent animals. Some blood lines suffer from sweetitch. 

You can buy semen and have it shipped in special containers by air mail.

Friesians are invariably black but not always. 

Before you contact any stud look up 'Totilas' and read what must be the world's most expensive stallion. This was a Dutch owned and bred horse - which the Germans now own. 

Frieisians can be very expensive in Europe - tens of thousands of dollars - in some cases hundreds of thousands depending on what they have acheived in the dressage arena, In my life I've ridden a couple and their heads and necks come up in front of the rider naturally.

Personally, my taste and opinion only, to match up with a QH before making a decision I'd think of looking for a Welsh Cob Section D, a breed which comes in all colours including jet black. 
But it all depends what you want to use the horse for.

PS See if you can find a video of Totilas performing in the dressage arena - he is magnificent.


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## franknbeans

Surprise 623 said:


> dachshund yorkie is a dorkie


Yeah-thanks-


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## Laures

Barry Godden said:


> You have the internet - look up a Friesian stud in Holland and ask them. ALmost without a doubt they will speak & write English.
> I suspect they might be horrified at the idea but the rules of breeding Friesians in Holland are strictly enforced so as to protect the purity of the breed.
> But money lubricates.
> 
> There is an old fashioned bloodstock line, which had a tendency to be used as
> draft horses but now there is a modern lighter bloodstock line produced largely
> for the dressage market. They don't all look like the photo you posted but
> they are very often magnificent animals. Some blood lines suffer from sweetitch.
> 
> You can buy semen and have it shipped in special containers by air mail.
> 
> Friesians are invariably black but not always.
> 
> Before you contact any stud look up 'Totilas' and read what must be the world's most expensive stallion. This was a Dutch owned and bred horse - which the Germans now own.
> 
> Frieisians can be very expensive in Europe - tens of thousands of dollars - in some cases hundreds of thousands depending on what they have acheived in the dressage arena, In my life I've ridden a couple and their heads and necks come up in front of the rider naturally.
> 
> Personally, my taste and opinion only, to match up with a QH before making a decision I'd think of looking for a Welsh Cob Section D, a breed which comes in all colours including jet black.
> But it all depends what you want to use the horse for.
> 
> PS See if you can find a video of Totilas performing in the dressage arena - he is magnificent.


What does Totilas have in common with a Fresian?

It is true that Dutch Friesian breeders never ever use a licenced,approved stallion for non-fresian breeding.The stallion would lose its licence.

Also true is that fresian used to came in al sorts of colours but the Dutch Registry only accepts jet black animals with no white markings (sometimes a little star on the head but that's it).

I've never seen a good Fresian cross in my life.
Most are like..parts from different horses put together.
The neck and the back are the most problematic features in breeding well conformed friesians and people need to realise that not every horse can improve that.

Don't breed with Friesians because they are pretty and stuff.
They have NOTHING in common with a QH so it wouldn't be my first choice to mix them.


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## StellaIW

Laures said:


> I've never seen a good Fresian cross in my life.
> Most are like..parts from different horses put together.
> The neck and the back are the most problematic features in breeding well conformed friesians and people need to realise that not every horse can improve that.
> 
> Don't breed with Friesians because they are pretty and stuff.
> They have NOTHING in common with a QH so it wouldn't be my first choice to mix them.


I have actually seen some nice Friesian crosses! But I only found some pictures of them as youngsters up to two years. 

Thoroughbred/Friesian









Arabian/Friesian



















Arabian/Friesian









Arabian/Friesian


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## its lbs not miles

Laures said:


> What does Totilas have in common with a Fresian?
> 
> It is true that Dutch Friesian breeders never ever use a licenced,approved stallion for non-fresian breeding.The stallion would lose its licence.
> 
> Also true is that fresian used to came in al sorts of colours but the Dutch Registry only accepts jet black animals with no white markings (sometimes a little star on the head but that's it).
> 
> I've never seen a good Fresian cross in my life.
> Most are like..parts from different horses put together.
> The neck and the back are the most problematic features in breeding well conformed friesians and people need to realise that not every horse can improve that.
> 
> Don't breed with Friesians because they are pretty and stuff.
> They have NOTHING in common with a QH so it wouldn't be my first choice to mix them.


The restrictiion on cross breeding Frisians by the Dutch is a relatively recent event (after WW II) and was for the purpose of saving what was left of the "pure" bloods. In interesting story in itself when you look at what they had to do.

While the Frisian is generally accepted as the oldest European breed with the lest amount of mixing, even it was mixed in order to lighten the breed. They had been a heavier horse before that.


----------



## its lbs not miles

Opps...sent before I finished (hate laptop keyboards)

As for mixing them and getting good horses. Suggest looking at the Friesian Sporthorse. While they have several restrictions for Friesian Sporthorses that are accepted for breeding (obviously had some Frisian folks involved in setting those restrictions, since they resemble the Dutch breeding restrictions) there are several different breeds involved in their foundation stock and like the Dutch, they have catagories of breeding stock. Being new they have new animals, from non Friesian Sporthorse stock that qualify to be registered.

I doubt that anyone being truly objective can look at this FSA horses and honestly say that they don't look great. While I don't care for showing, which is what this breed is probably more popular for, I've seen some (technically, I could register mine with them, but maybe not in the Main book) and they are magnificent animals.

Frisian blood was used back in the early history of the US to produce an old and widely loved breed of US horse. The Morgan had Frisian blood and the Morgan has been around for a long time (relative to the length of US history)


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## xxBarry Godden

It was put to me once that the origin of the Friesian went back to Roman times when they brought up from Southern France the pack horses from the Arriegeois region. In the intervening 2000 years they could have survived well on the remote islands of Friesland, in Northern Holland, most of which are very close to sea level.

But WW2 will have made a significant impact on the Friesian breed, as horses were being used by the Germans in Eastern Europe as transport and later at the end of the war by the Dutch as food. 

In the UK we have a very different small horse - the Dales- , again predominantly black in colour but a stocky pony used largely over the ages as a pack horse carrying lead from the mines to market. 

PS The Welsh claim that their cobs have had a strong influence over the breeding of the Morgan - especially since 'Morgan' is a very common Welsh surname.


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## its lbs not miles

Yes, the Romans actually found the forest horse of central Europe when they invaded. A very large animal that almost all of the great European horse breeds can be traced back to. The Frisian supposedly had the closest, least altered bloodline (not that anyone could actually prove it). They were bred to lighter horses around the 1400 (give of take 100 years) to make the breed faster, quicker and more agile.
The Frisian as been a foundation breed for many European horses that are today seen as well established breeds (e.g. the Dutch Warmblood) and even the Dales can trace Frisian in their bloodline.
The history of using different breeds to create animals with supperior traits has been and will hopefully continue to be an never ending process. Some breeds no long exist, because they were replaced by breeds that they help develope and so they stopped being bred. (e.g. in North America the Narraganset Pacer was replaced by the American Horse which was replaced by the horses that became the ASB, TWH, etc..., but all trace back to the Narraganset Pacer which no longer exist). All created by people who wanted to create a horse with more of the traits they were looking for. Some became popular and survived. Others just didn't catch on. The RMH was a "non" breed that existed in the mountains of NC, TN, KY and VA for a long time. Used by the locals as an all around horse for doing whatever they needed. Basically a "mut" that eventually became popular when people started noticing that this mut was a nice riding horse. Standards were set and yet another breed was born (a bit over simplified, but the points the same).

Keep cross breeding, because from what I've seen happening over the last 40+ years of selective "pure" breeding with some breeds has not impressed me. (e.g. at one time Saddlebreds [pre 1900-1940's atleast] were normally gaited. Some still are, a lot are not). I am impressed by a lot of the cross breeds and a lot of other people must be too, since many are becoming popular and recognized breeds. In 200 years some will still be around and others will become foot notes in history, but they might possibly become the foundation breed for even better horses.


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## xxBarry Godden

Regarding constant in-breeding.

In the UK dogs have suffered because they were isolated from the European breeds by the anti rabies legislation imposed by the British Government.
It was against the law to import any dogs unless they had been thru six, repeat six, months quarantine. As a result dog breeders kept re breeding from the same stock - 'licensed dog incest' would be a word to describe the practice.
Constant in breeding leads to inherited health issues.

Several European nations are very fussy about recording a horse's exact breeding including the Dutch, the Germans, the Spanish and the Portuguese.

In Britain the passport scheme has enabled the breed societies to be fussy as to the registration of 'impure' horses but it could be questioned as to whether this is more for the benefit of the breeders rather than the horses.
The occasional 'bit of rough' is sometimes good for the breed. 

However, as yet, it is probable the the majority of British horses are cross breeds but to my knowledge there are no statistics to support that statement.


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## its lbs not miles

Restrictions on breeding actually only applies to breeds that have been established (which takes time and generations to do). The initial cross breeding to develope a type of horse is left up to the breeders. Many US breeds existed for a very long time and in the case of the ASB, where known by different names before it an association was formed to set a breed standard (and 100 years later most were a shadow of what they had been bred to be).
Unless they've changed (and it's possible...I haven't lived in Germany for decades) Germany was a lot easier on using Frisians for cross breeding. The Dutch were very restrictive after WWII and a lot on in-line breeding was done to maintain purity. The sire for my mare had the same G-G-grandfather on both sides of his family, but a highly rated line of stallions and mare.
Pure Frisians aren't mush use to me. I just want some of their traits added to other traits to produce what I want. Ot a time machine so I can bring back some "saddlers" from 170 years ago that eventually became the ASB


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## Laures

Yeah, I know the Arabofriesian (arab x friesian),they were bred to have more stamina and less knee action,to be more suitable riding horses.
But they didn'tt serve their purpose that well here in Belgium,for driving most off them are to hot and their gates tent to be..I don't know how te say in English but it's like they 'stamp' on the ground when they trot.


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## its lbs not miles

Show people might like that. Can't see it serving much use outside of showing. For me the Frisian works well to improve the bone and I like their disposition. To me the Frisian is giving an improvement to the other breed. Not the other way around. I think the Frisian will be around for a very long time, because like the Arabian it's great for improving certain traits. For me it's the heavier, stronger bone and the calmer personality.


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## samwantsapony

*I Love My Quarisian.*









(A picture of my Quarisian yearling). 

Two words: Hybrid Vigor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis

I love my Quarter Horse/ Friesian cross. I breed and raise animals on my farm, and I love mixing breeds because you often find that the offspring are more intelligent and healthier than purebreds. 

Also, all of our modern day purebreds, say the Percheron or even the Quarter Horse, came from crossing different breeds together. 

I love the Quarisian because the Quarter Horse is fast and flexible while the Friesian is known for strength and temperament. This is an all around great mix! I couldn't recommend enough. 

People who have them love them.


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## nrhareiner

Little Miss Country said:


> Yeah but I am not going to breed her to a TB. I can't find a decent enough TB stud and I honestly just want something different.


 
Then forget about the TB find a good QH stallion who will compliment your mare. If you are looking for something different then go out and buy one.

Have you stoped to ask yourself that if all these other "Breeders" think this is such a good idea and good cross why are they not doing it?

I have been breeding Reg. AQHA horses for almost 2 decades and this is not a cross I would ever consider. Love Freisans but would never consider cross any QH on one.


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## kartmom67

You should do what you want. This is your horse and your decision. But if it were me, I wouldn't. Only because the friesian has such distinct and bold features that really work best with other friesians. Many of these beautiful baroque breeds have been carefully bred for hundreds of years to perfection to represent the breed standard. These are noble, elegant creatures used to represent royalty and as such I think they should remain in that class. Of course, they are used for all sorts of purposes now but they remain dignified and noble in the way that only a friesian can. It would be a shame to dilute that with a stock horse. A quarter horse is a wonderful breed too and dignified in their own way. But to me (and this is only my opinion) they are just too drastically different. What is your intended use for the baby? Dressage? Jumping? Trails? ask yourself this before you decide on a stallion. The cross should never be about looks but about your intended use for the offspring. I have ridden many friesians and they are wonderful but some disciplines are harder for them than others.


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