# Sticky  Trail Riding Etiquette



## Walkamile

Well done Vida!! Wish one of the ladies in my riding club would adhere to the one about riding an ill behaved/tempered horse in the back of the pack. Her mare is soooo nasty and refuses to stand still when we have to stop that it can wind up some of the other horses. Not to mention an unprovoked attack from her is always on our minds. 

Good job!


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## free_sprtd

Maureen I hope you don't mind, this thread was great information for this forum I stickied it


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## Vidaloco

Good job! I didn't know many of these things when I first started riding with a group. Good stuff to know before you embarrass yourself :lol:


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## Qtswede

and my personal pet peeve: 
DO NOT hang back so you can gallop up on the rest of the group. It's dangerous and incredibly rude. 
Usually a problem with younger riders.


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## LDblackhorse

Also i thought I would ad this one in. I did not see it mentioned.
Stallions should wear a yellow ribon on the tail. Green for inexperianced. That way any one coming up behind you will know

I did little endurnace and that was what I did for my guy. I had no problem and every one respected it.

just thought I would through that one in


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## Harley Heaven

Good Job! It's so good that I will do a copy and paste into a word doc, print and laminate several coies to post at our local Park.

Someone I know was unseated because of a group tourist out hikeing one day who upon seeing horse & rider aproaching ran out of the woods from an adjacent hiking trail, waving their hands over their heads yeling 'Horsie, horsie, horsie!' meanwhile snaping flash pictures the whole time. No, they were not Americans however they learned a few choice words that day! LOL.

Most folks will be considerate if they are only made aware of proper Etiquette.


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## dashygirl

Vidaloco said:


> *
> Warn if a branch might snap back in someone’s face*


Ah, yes! This is SO annoying. I don't appreciate bleeding from the face on a trail ride, totally ruins the mood for me. Lol.


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## kiwigirl

great job! I always come back from a large trek with mixed emotions. The last trek I went on had 70 horses and the truth is you only need a handful of people to not respect the basic rules (or courtesys) and it can really make a ride uncomfortable. 

I rode my young mare Phoenix and I had only broken her in 5 weeks previously so felt really brave to take her out with such a large group of horses. Honestly she was so fantastic but some of the other riders, I just wanted to strangle them by the end of the day. One woman in particular kept letting her horse walk up Phoeny's bum! I had deliberately stayed at the rear of the mob all day as my girl was so green. This bloody horse rammed us at least half a dozen times, by the third time Phboeny started to kick out and the women riding this **** horse blithely tells me at one point in the day "my horse always runs into other horses". COME ON LADY what do you think the reins are for, honestly!?

Sorry went into a bit of a rant there for a second. Good post Vidaloco.


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## SmoothTrails

I agree 100% I went on a large ride with a broke gelding who had NEVER offered to kick on the trail. By the fourth time this lady let her horse ram him (after I pointedly told her to back off before he lost his temper :shock: ) he finally gave a small kick, but she was so close that when he had his foot barely off the ground it hit her horses front leg. I got onto him, but when she tried to say something to me I just reminded her that had her horse not ben ramming him it wouldn't have happened at all. :roll:My horse was slightly claustrophobic in groups for a long time after that. It took a lot of work to get him back to normal, and I had been riding him for about 6-7 years at that point.


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## MyGalSal

Perfect job Vida...

May I add that our local CT Horse Council and Volunteer Horse Patrol have brochures we have made available at the trail heads that provide information about trail etiquette and we also have a Roadsafe Brochure that is displayed at our Town Halls and Dept. of Motor Vehicles.


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## Tazmanian Devil

MyGalSal said:


> Perfect job Vida...
> 
> May I add that our local CT Horse Council and Volunteer Horse Patrol have brochures we have made available at the trail heads that provide information about trail etiquette and we also have a Roadsafe Brochure that is displayed at our Town Halls and Dept. of Motor Vehicles.


That is an excellent idea. Always a good think to educate the non-riding public about safety issues.

I would also like to add my own "trail etiquette" rule...

While I agree it is our responsibility as riders to follow all the rules posted, it is also our responsibility to train ourselves and our horses to accept that there are some, if not many riders that will ignore one or all of these rules.

ANYTHING can happen out on trail and we should do everything in our power to condition our horses to accept that fact of life. Too many people get hung up in the "who's right" of it all, when what really matters is safety.

Sure, you can yell "you were wrong, you SOB" all you want. Yelling it from a hospital bed makes for a hollow victory.


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## Amlalriiee

haha I would like to add, "don't go on a trail ride and expect it not to BE a trail ride"...ask questions if you've never been on one before, tell people what you're comfortable with and see what you're getting into! We had a group out one time and these two women came on their fancy show horses and in their fancy show clothes and spent the ENTIRE ride yelling at us for how awful and dangerous the trail was. There were one or two spots that WERE rough, but it was a GREAT ride minus all the whining...the cause of all this whining and yelling at us: fallen trees to step over and a stream bed to cross....haha pretty typical for a trail ride.


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## Rowzy

I would like to add that if you know your horse spooks at bikes, loose dogs, etc. warn people if it applies. My mare kicks at dogs so I always warn people that have loose dogs about that. This is something that I've never been able to train out of her.
Also, if a trail says "No horses" please respect that. Around here it is a safety issue because many of those trails have old coal mines running under them or it is to please the hikers who dont want to share the trail with the horse. I have seen too many riders ignore those signs.


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## Amir

LDblackhorse said:


> Stallions should wear a yellow ribon on the tail. Green for inexperianced. That way any one coming up behind you will know


I always thought stallions wore blue not yellow. Someone told me another meaning of yellow but I can't for the life of me remember it now.
Green for inexperienced/young horse and red for a kicker.


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## Pidge

I just did some google work on what color ribbons and what they mean...

RED- Horse kicks and should be given pleanty of room.

GREEN- Horse is either green broke, not use to the type of riding being done, unpredictable or uncontrolable in anyway, or if they are not use to being ridden in a group and you are out with a group.

YELLOW/WHITE- This horse is a stallion.

Mares in heat who get testy and foul tempered may also wear a ribbon. The color of this ribbon is not important so long as it may be seen. Red is commonly used since mares in heat are known to be more likely to kick. Blue is also a good color for foul tempered mares.

So there are the ribbons lol hope this helped everyone. I have to go buy a red ribbon sometime soon....Bause has been proven as a possible kicker...lol


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## Speed Racer

I can tell a stallion by his dangly bits; no ribbon necessary! :wink:

Yellow also used to mean a horse was for sale. I don't think they use it like that anymore, though.

The only color ribbon I've seen actually used has been red, and I stayed well clear of that horse. Definitely a kicker.


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## MuleWrangler

One more thing to add--please don't hang back and then race up _*and past*_ other horses! I used to ride with a group in Arkansas and one time there were two younger girls who thought it was hysterial to hang back, then gallop up and past/through the group. This was just great for our poor horses/mules, and they kept doing it even after several people asked them not to. Needless to say, they were never invited back.

If you need to pass others, let them know clearly you are coming up behind them, that you want to pass, and what side you want to pass on (we usually rode logging roads, so plenty room to go by). I usually say something like, "Behind you, pass please, on your left!" Always pass at a walk or slow controlled speed.


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## Vidaloco

Its usually just my husband and I but even then we say "coming up on you" if we're coming up fast and "passing on the left/right" as a common courtesy to each other. Plus if you do it all the time it becomes habit for when you're with a croud.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad

I've been on countless trail rides with others and my pet peve is PACE.
The leader of a group has a responsability of maintaining a constant easy pace. You can not speed up going down hills, slow down and suddenly speed up again. The reaction down the line puts everyone in jeprody??
The leader should pick a nice pace and hold it regardless of up hill or down around corners, everywhere the pace should be maintained.
No loping if everyone is trotting. Keep distance which has been already mentioned. I refuse to tolerate anyone running up my guys butt. He could get seriously injured.

Warn everyone about stopping and make it slow. Warn everyone that you are going to trot, warn and then start trotting but again sing out that you are trotting.
A leader that speeds up when she feels like it, slows down suddenly, breaks from a trot to a canter and back down to a trot is not considerate of others and I wouldn't ride with her.

Leading is not just about being first in a group.


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## CarlyCole

Yeah, I have nice scratch on my face from a branch that someone popped me in the face with. Pretty annoying.  But other than that my trail ride was very pleasant.


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## hudson6393

Great posting on trail ettiquette. But I do have to say this... those who take green horses on the trails are doing so at their own risk. I do agree that when other riders lack in steering etc. It is annoying. But it is going to happen when you have a group. And you will run into a group of galloping riders as well... be prepared. I remember about 9 years ago, i was on a ride with about 300 riders. My friend brought a very green horse, talking less than 10 rides. She had no business bringing that horse out to the ride. he was not ready. He was scared, she was scared... those of us riding around her were getting nervous, as the horse was getting quite worked up. She ended up leading her horse behind everyone for the last 4 hours. Even when riding in smaller groups, remember you will come up on more horses, please be sure YOUR horse is ready to be out there.


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## g8dhorse

One more thing to add......NEVER leave your horse tied up unattended on one of these big rides. Make sure you really KNOW the people you are with and trust them to take care of your horse if you have to be absent for even a few minutes. I learned this the hard way...and it almost cost me my life. Someone DRUGGED my horse while I was away from the trailer for about 20 minutes. When he "woke up" 2 hrs later on top of the mountain he became frantic. He spooked, reared, galloped down the trail and threw me about 10ft in the air hitting two trees. I broke my spine, my hip, my pelvis, and fractured my neck on that ride. They found my horse eventually. He had a couple tiny scratches. 

Know who you are riding with and don't let anyone give your horse ANYTHING you haven't approved of.

I don't ride with people I don't know any longer. It just takes one idiot.......


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## MissasEquineDesign

Great tips, these common courtesies make riding so much nicer!


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## BJJ

My annoyance, riders who can't ride and who have horses that are ill-trained. They stop dead in front of you (usually putting riders in the back in a trick), and when you hit a four-lane wide spot and tell them you will be posting past, they have a fit as they are afraid they can't control their horse. I don't do large groups anymore.


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## FHF

This is such a great post. I would like to add another safety tip when trail riding. We were riding at huge equestrian trail place that had one place where you had to cross a four lane highway to get to a beautiful over look. On the way back to camp coming out of the woods to cross the road the group I was with did not wait for everyone to come out of the woods before crossing the road. I had to stop her for oncoming traffic and she came unglued. She could care less that a car was coming at 70 miles an hour she wanted to be on the other side. We were almost hit because she sidepassed and backed into the oncoming traffic. So my advice is wait for all your group and then everyone cross the road at the same time side by side. It will ensure that no one gets caught in traffic.


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## Skipsfirstspike

When we are crossing as a big group we usually go single file, but we have a 'guard' on each side of the line as lookout. They stop their horse in the middle of the road as the others cross, and will flag down any approaching traffic, and stay there until the last rider has crossed.


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## CopperPennyPony

Walkamile said:


> Well done Vida!! Wish one of the ladies in my riding club would adhere to the one about riding an ill behaved/tempered horse in the back of the pack. Her mare is soooo nasty and refuses to stand still when we have to stop that it can wind up some of the other horses. Not to mention an unprovoked attack from her is always on our minds.
> 
> Good job!


People with horses like that need to get that under control. Its one thing that the horse was likely a danger to its rider but the fact that it could become a danger to everyone else riding with her.


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## Thyme

I hate it when people think its okay to run their horse by yours if the road is wide enough, that move could get someone very hurt and my friends horse has reared up and almost fallen off the trail because of this.


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## africanstardust

Great post!

I don't ride in a group anymore because the horse I ride is very competitive. Even when we're by ourselves I still have a time controlling him, but in a group, forget it. It makes the people I ride with uncomfortable, as well, because he has a reputation, so I just figured there was no point in messing up their rides as well as rubbing my nerves raw.

What makes me nervous is when the rider in front of you is nervous and keeps looking back at your horse and saying, "please keep him back, please keep him back" and I'm over a foot behind. But anyway  For the most part I've had very good trail experiences.


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## Pilot

Thanks so much. I am planning on beginning trail riding this fall and joining a group in the spring and going on a 100mile ride in the summer. Some of this information I had not thought of. Again thank you.

Add: When stopping as a group don't have the rears of the horses facing or directly facing each other. This can provoke fights.


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## Gothic Melodies

Great idea! I'll review these before I go on trail rides so that I know I have these locked into my head. It's always good to review.


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## Grumps

I am somewhat new to the horse riding as well as trail riding. I see that my expierence as a x-biker and off roader helps with some of this etiquette and I have to say that most of this is common sense and a little thoughtfullness of your fellow rider. With that said, I would like to find some of the smaller trail rides. I went on the Okie/Arkie ride for one day and let me tell you every bit of etiquette was ignored. I am anxious to hear about some of the more relaxed trail rides.


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## alaskapacker

I have been riding for years, and have been a professional guide for trailrides in some of the roughest and most beautiful country on this continent. I have learned that in the end, both the safety and pleasure of myself and my horse depends on OUR skill, calmness, experience and good humor. Mine and my horse's.

All of the advice given on here is entirely correct, and should be not only be followed, but taught and insisted on. However, people are people, and there are those who will be clueless or careless 'till the day they die. It's just human nature. It is my responsibility, therefore, to not put any horse of mine in a situation where they will likely face something they are clearly not ready for.

Never go on a ride where you will be not have an authoritative say in what is going on around you if you even suspect that your horse will not do well around these ignorant or careless people. And if there are more than 3 riders, the you can bet odds are multiplied exponentially that there will be an "undesirable" in the group. And a trail ride of 300? 100? 25? You and your horse has to have the control, calm and experience to do all of your thinking and that of a dozen other people. Simultaneously. There are some horses I just will not take on some rides, it's not fair to the horse. My horse.

So, my advice on trail etiquette? Don't go on a ride where you or you horse's inexperience could possible add to any already out-of-control ... person.


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## Grumps

Alaska Packer, I agree I was in over my head on this ride and my fault for not investigating before leaping into this ride. A combination of experience and a few idiots and the ride turned sour in a heartbeat. There was one bad habbit my horse had that after this ride he seemed to have lost but he always had to be in front of other horses so the ride wasn't a total loss but just disappointing. Thanks for the advice and I am sure as my experience grows so will my level of riding.


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## PerchiesKisses

Vidaloco said:


> Always carry ID on your person and on your horse in case you become separated.


Hmmm... that gives me an idea for putting a phone # and name on the brass plate of a horse's halter... 

Very good tips by the way


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## Nine

I had heard the tips before, on trail riding. Always good to refresh my memory. I did not know the yellow for stallions tip. Thanks for the head's up. I wold have guessed it was a cowardly horse - ha ha.


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## usandpets

In reference to the the tree branch snapping back at another rider, it is better to lift it over you head and have it come down behind you. Also, if you are bringing a cell phone with, carry it on yourself and not on the horse.

Otherwise, you have many good points that everyone needs to know. Many should be common sense, but too many don't seem to have that.


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## usandpets

I would like to add one more thing: when approaching a blind spot, such as a hill or corner in the trail, do it at a walk. You never know what or who is on the other side.


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## gottatrot

Pink ribbon means breast cancer awareness, yellow ribbon means support the troops. Ha ha, just kidding.


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## Nine

I bought a cool item that straps to your leg. It holds your cell, keys, flashlight (small one) and other very small items, such as a money and a map, etc. It's very handy to have that on me, and as you say, USANDPETS, not on the horse. I like the idea of my phone number on my horse. Thanks for that tip. Do any of you carry those easy-boot things? I know the trails I'll be on are mostly grass, but I wondered about it.


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## chvyluvgrl

*Trail Courtesy*

I compete in competitive trail rides and at the rides I have learned a lot of thing in the context on manner on the trail. Many times riders are so focused on getting over the log, across the creek, or across whatever obstacle that they forget to help out those behind them. 

One thing that my friends and I make sure we do is after crossing water such as a creek we will turn around and face the other riders to that their horses don’t feel rushed. This allows the horse to pause in the water and get a drink if they want to. The same with crossing obstacles, you want to let them take their time and not rush. 

One other thing we do is talk to riders whether we know them or not. “Would be okay if we pass you on the left?” Or “would you mind pulling over at your convenience so we could pass you”. 

I think if you just start thinking about things that you would like to have happen on the trail and start implementing them then others will follow and start using common trail courtesy.


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## candandy49

I used to ride on Benefit Trail Rides sponsored by the National Kidney Foundation and American Diabetes Association. On all these rides there were upwards of up to 300+ horses sometimes even more. Proper trail etiquette was a requirement. Anyone not being polite was told by the pacesetter to leave the ride post haste. Even though my horse was never and I mean never a kicker I did on occasion put a red ribbon in her tail just for insurance no one would ride up on us and stay on our hind-side.


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## Serg5000

Being new to horses, this kind of information is priceless. Thank you.


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## christabelle

All good information. It is important to be polite above all else. My only pet peeve about this is don't go to a group event if you cannot control your horse. So many people do this and then pick it with other riders " because YOU are (insert horse related action) I cannot control my hose". I just think it's silly. If someone bolts by me (although it is rude), I would feel i had some work to do on MY horse if he were to react.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FlyGap

We have a horse that will try to lay down in ANY body of water. So we have him hold up so other horses can pass and take their time. Then when we are through he can go through. If not he has to be sped up to cross and others will rush through the water to keep up and not drink.


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## fire walker TWH

I would just like to add this, make sure if you bring a guest rider with you that you have rode with them before. One of my worst nightmares and worse wrecks ever was caused by a lady who " new how to ride" . this girl was so totally green she could have been a lime. The horse she was on grew tired of her holding the reins out with only a finger and thumb, constant thumping of sides and continuous jerking left then right, he lay down with her. She jumped off and ran away from the horse. he jumped up, ran under another horse catching the persons reins with his saddle horn and dragging her and her horse in tandem down the creek as fast as he could. needless to say this very inexperienced liar walked the rest of the way home.Never to be invited again. Matter of fact I wish I could brand her with a warning of some sort!

One more thing, never assume a branch will bend!!! I learned this the hard way and found myself doing equine acrobatics nearly flipping off backwards. Funny now but wow that could have ended so much worse!


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## Joe4d

I dont ask permission to pass, but I always warn or give notice. I ususally try to do it only one gear faster than the horse I am passing. "PASSING AT A GAIT ON YOUR LEFT" or "PASSING ON THE RIGHT"
I tend to return politeness with politeness, but rude people get on my nerves, and although I try to maintain the moral high ground, my patience wears thin.
If you are on a snails pace, move over and let other people pass when you come to a wide spot, or prepare to get upset if I fly past you on the inside of a curve. If someone comes up behind you it should be pretty obvious they are moving a bit faster, go single file and let em by when the trail permits. 
If your horse kicks, dont block the trial and tell everybody it kicks, "GET OUT OF THE WAY"
If you decide you need to adjust tack,Again, GET OUT OF THE WAY!
That last one drove me nuts, big group ride, narrow steep uphill section of trail, a rider decided right at the very top was a good spot to get off and adjust tack, 15 or so horse traffic jam casued by said rider, and the couple people behind them that just sat there and didnt say anything.

Dont stop half way up a hill, or stop when you get to the top, jamming everyone below you.
Do stop at water, and let the other horses drink.


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## loveduffy

nice job everybody should read just to update their knowledge


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## Sweeney Road

I'm not sure that I'll ever go on a trail ride with 300+ riders, but all of this is very helpful information.


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## AZguy

im a pretty new rider and have done a bit of trail riding. I knew most of these unwritten rules but there was some i hadn't heard of before that make great sense. Nice to just read through a list like this.


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## diesel63

Some great coments. When i was hacking out in england i used to pass a lady walking her two dogs,every time she saw us coming she would hide behind a tree or bush! Well it would take lots of leg to get close enough to screem at her to come out, I tried too tell her how a horse knew she was there and its worse if they carnt see them,but on deaf ears this fell, and now im in the usa were i have to ware bright colour so the hunters wont shot! Oh the great outdoors.


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## gunslinger

diesel63 said:


> S and now im in the usa were i have to ware bright colour so the hunters wont shot! Oh the great outdoors.


Thank god the founding fathers were smart enough to protect the right to keep and bear arms.

Wearing bright colors during hunting season is a small price to pay for liberty.

To quote the late Barry Goldwater, “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”

And another Barry Goldwater quote, “Equality, rightly understood as our founding fathers understood it, leads to liberty and to the emancipation of creative differences; wrongly understood, as it has been so tragically in our time, it leads first to conformity and then to despotism”


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## mildot

diesel63 said:


> and now im in the usa were i have to ware bright colour so the hunters wont shot! Oh the great outdoors.


These rude, ignorant, bigoted comments are starting to irritate the hell out of me. :evil:


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## xxBarry Godden

RiosDad - Where have you been? 

I thought you had gone to pale blue skies of yonder.

We've kept your paddock warm for you.

B G


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## Joe4d

hunting has nothing to do with protecting liberty or the RTKBA, It's also pretty smart to wear blaze orange in the woods during hunting season as a safety item to keep from getting shot. In fact it is required by law in many plces whether you are hunting or not. So now that person is ignorant ? Blaze Orange is SOmething even other hunters wear. Your not wearing orange to keep from falling on your head. Like it or not it is a dont get shot safety item.


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## gunslinger

Joe4d said:


> hunting has nothing to do with protecting liberty


Tennessee recently passed a right to hunt bill. It was passed to protect liberty and ensure future generations hunting. So, hunting is now a right in Tennessee.

My issue with the right to hunt bill is, now that it's a right, can they continue to tax (license) it?

Orange is always a good idea during hunting season. I do change my riding plans to accommodate the hunting season, and usually don't ride in the Cherokee during the short time big game season is open, not out of fear, but out of respect for those who want to hunt.


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## xxBarry Godden

*Trail riding on each side of the Great Pond*

As a Brit, I’ve been reading this thread with amusement. 

Over this side of the Great Pond, life in some ways is very different but we too have: the wild and unpredictable, the irresponsible and irreverent, the out of control and dangerous, the naïve and unsafe, the fearful and incompetent. You can’t really tell the one from the other until it is too late.

Noone is allowed to carry a hand gun of any shape, size or bore. *Noone! *Highway robbery is very rare these days, except by the tax man which is universal robbery, (Petrol is now almost $9 a gallon)

However we do have a wide range of modern paraphernalia to spook the horse, There are lawn mowers, chain saws, barking dogs lurking behind hedges, dustbins, paper bags, donkeys, cows and game birds, cars, motor cycles, lorries, tractors, low flying aircraft, helicopters and mothers taking their darling kids to school down single carriageway country lanes with high hedgerows and old aged pensioners walking their dogs on extended leads. Plus cows going ‘moo‘, donkeys going ‘hee haw’ and goats ‘bleating‘. Meeting another horse is the least of our worries. The biggest hazard of all is a cross country racing pedal bike which comes up quietly behind and zooms past at speed without a sound bearing heard.

Incidentally , the horse rider is not charged for medical treatment at the accident and emergency hospitals. If you can get there in time to make a difference, treatment is free of charge.

PS It is not mandatory to ride the horse on the left hand side of the road.


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## Lockwood

By diesel63: "now im in the usa were I have to ware bright colour so the hunters wont shot! Oh the great outdoors." 

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/trail-riding/trail-riding-etiquette-28760/page6/#ixzz1nVcFAqSv


mildot said:


> These rude, ignorant, bigoted comments are starting to irritate the hell out of me. :evil:


How is this rude, ignorant, and bigoted?

I've lived and ridden in many places in the USA. Some places/states were heavy into hunting (as in guns, bang bang) areas, some very restricted hunting allowed, and some were heavy into fox hunting.
In places where riders have to contend with year around hunting, there is a very real danger of being shot... riding or not.

I'm not from PA, but I currently live here in a heavy hunting area and during the heaviest activity seasons my child cannot even play out side for fear of being killed. Every single year a child or person gets killed by a "stray" bullet. 
I can't even recount the dealth tolls on the local livestock by the sober hunters, let alone the drunk ones.
Several years ago while I was on the driveway waiting for the bus to drop off my son from school, a hunter shot my house. He was too busy trying to get the bird he was aiming at and didn't even pay attention to the fact that my house was on the other side of the road. Yup, he missed the bird.
The track of the bullet missed me by about 25 to 30 feet.

During the various hunting seasons I cannot even walk to the mailbox without having to wear a bright orange hat and coat, let alone ride anywhere else on my OWN property. I really don't appreciate having to buy those items since I do not hunt animals in any way, however I like getting shot less.

Every year I also have to run off illegal hunters on the backside of my property. The same ones who are incredibly shoot happy and don't care that they are tresspassing and hunting in my pastures, next to my livestock and equines. They certainly don't stop to think about what they hit when the bullet misses the deer, quail, turkey...etc.

For some of us in the good "ol US of A, the threat from hunters is very real. Doesn't matter if we were born here or not.


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## Joe4d

my point was politicians like to throw "hunting" as the reason for the second ammendment. And any gun not used for hunting civilians dont need. Hunting and keeping arms are separate issues. 
I felt the same way about deer hunters and stayed out of their way so they could do their thing. Basically trail etiquette, you know its deer season so u stay out of the area, however in many area the seasons are months long and the traditional no Sunday Hunting laws are being overturned not much you can do but dress up like a traffic cone and hope for the best.


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## Skipsfirstspike

Like gunslinger, I too tend to change my riding plans during hunting season. We have certain large woodlots where we have permission to ride, but I always keep my eyes open for trucks parked next to these lots, or to see if a gate is open, implying that a vehicle has entered. At such times I will skirt the bush, not entering. 
Even though I have permission, I respect that the hunters have a short season, while I can ride year round. No reason for me to scare away the deer if I can help it.
It so happened that one year I was riding in a bush where, unbeknownst to me, the owner had also given permission to someone to hunt it. So here I am trotting along, oblivious to any noise I was making. When I saw the hunter in the tree blind, I was mortified. I knew the guy, and he was very friendly about it. After all, neither of us knew the other had permission, the owner was just a nice old man who liked the fact that others were enjoying his woods.
So no hard feelings, but I felt bad that he had probably been up there a few hours, and now I had chased away any potential deer for the next few hours.
Now I always make it a point to know if others have use of the woods along with myself, and do my best to respect the hobbies of others.


----------



## Celeste

Bird shot raining down is not that likely to hurt you...........


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## Lockwood

The hole in the side of my house was not from bird shot. I guess the hunter didn't read the bird hunting manual.

Forgot to mention in my rant that my property, along with most other farms around here are surrounded by public lands. Public lands here are deemed multi-purpose lands for trail riding, hunting, walking, biking...etc.

For those of us who wish to ride close to home or to ride over to the neighboring horse farm, these are what we have to choose from. Riding on the roads here is even more dangerous and there isn't really much set up for the horse sectors here for safe trail riding without having to haul some distance.

Most of the deaths I mentioned occur when someone on a public trail or land doesn't pay attention to the projection of their bullets, which mostly end up on private propery. 
I think trail ettiquette for public lands should apply to all who use them, not just the horse folks.


----------



## Joe4d

Lockwood said:


> The hole in the side of my house was not from bird shot. I guess the hunter didn't read the bird hunting manual.
> 
> Forgot to mention in my rant that my property, along with most other farms around here are surrounded by public lands. Public lands here are deemed multi-purpose lands for trail riding, hunting, walking, biking...etc.
> 
> For those of us who wish to ride close to home or to ride over to the neighboring horse farm, these are what we have to choose from. Riding on the roads here is even more dangerous and there isn't really much set up for the horse sectors here for safe trail riding without having to haul some distance.
> 
> Most of the deaths I mentioned occur when someone on a public trail or land doesn't pay attention to the projection of their bullets, which mostly end up on private propery.
> I think trail ettiquette for public lands should apply to all who use them, not just the horse folks.


PA is also involved in keeping Sunday hunting bans in place , just like in VA, for just such a reason. We stay home on Saturdays, ride on Sundays, the hunters do the opposite. Pretty fair way of sharing the woods.


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## trailhorserider

I refuse to quite riding for hunting season. If I did that, just for elk/deer season alone, I would not be able to ride from the end of August into December. So hunters are something we have to live with. If I know it's hunting season, say elk for example, I will dress in hunter orange and dress my chestnut horse up in hunter orange as well. (Hopefully the white horse does not look like a game animal.)

We sometimes hear of cows getting shot, but luckily I never really hear about people/horses getting shot. It is a BIG national forest. But we run into hunters all the time. We usually say hello and ride on. They are usually pretty friendly. Often times they are hiding in blinds or up in tree stands so you can't often avoid them if you don't see them until you are in their space.

Anyway, I dress in orange because I don't want me or my horses to get shot. I don't care if it looks silly. I sure don't want someone to think my horse is an elk, especially because we ride in wooded areas and it may not be easy to identify the animal at first.


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## Lockwood

Joe4d said:


> PA is also involved in keeping Sunday hunting bans in place , just like in VA, for just such a reason. We stay home on Saturdays, ride on Sundays, the hunters do the opposite. Pretty fair way of sharing the woods.


I guess it would be if the hunters respected the "No hunting on Sundays" rule. The hunters here are not as polite as they are in VA.

Some sneak in bagging animals on Sunday because things are done primarily on the honor system and there are not enough people to enforce the rules. In addition, many people travel up from the city to drink and "target" practice on Sundays.

Personally, I think that having Sunday as the only deemed "safe" day is not fair since hunters already get the other 6 as it is. People hunt during the week just as much as on Saturday here, and many of us have to ride during the week for job/family reasons, so safety is just as much of an issue as on Saturdays.
I read in my local paper recently that the Sunday hunting ban here is on the table for consideration of being lifted.


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## mildot

Lockwood said:


> By diesel63: "now im in the usa were I have to ware bright colour so the hunters wont shot! Oh the great outdoors."
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/trail-riding/trail-riding-etiquette-28760/page6/#ixzz1nVcFAqSv
> 
> How is this rude, ignorant, and bigoted?
> 
> I've lived and ridden in many places in the USA. Some places/states were heavy into hunting (as in guns, bang bang) areas, some very restricted hunting allowed, and some were heavy into fox hunting.
> In places where riders have to contend with year around hunting, there is a very real danger of being shot... riding or not.
> 
> I'm not from PA, but I currently live here in a heavy hunting area and during the heaviest activity seasons my child cannot even play out side for fear of being killed. Every single year a child or person gets killed by a "stray" bullet.
> I can't even recount the dealth tolls on the local livestock by the sober hunters, let alone the drunk ones.
> Several years ago while I was on the driveway waiting for the bus to drop off my son from school, a hunter shot my house. He was too busy trying to get the bird he was aiming at and didn't even pay attention to the fact that my house was on the other side of the road. Yup, he missed the bird.
> The track of the bullet missed me by about 25 to 30 feet.
> 
> During the various hunting seasons I cannot even walk to the mailbox without having to wear a bright orange hat and coat, let alone ride anywhere else on my OWN property. I really don't appreciate having to buy those items since I do not hunt animals in any way, however I like getting shot less.
> 
> Every year I also have to run off illegal hunters on the backside of my property. The same ones who are incredibly shoot happy and don't care that they are tresspassing and hunting in my pastures, next to my livestock and equines. They certainly don't stop to think about what they hit when the bullet misses the deer, quail, turkey...etc.
> 
> For some of us in the good "ol US of A, the threat from hunters is very real. Doesn't matter if we were born here or not.


I put zero credibility on someone who thinks birds are hunted with bullets.

Plus I don't need you to tell me what it is like to ride "In places where riders have to contend with year around hunting". I already know because I live in a place like that, with Sunday hunting even. So your rant is lost on me.


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## Sweeney Road

mildot said:


> I put zero credibility on someone who thinks birds are hunted with bullets.


Until around the year 2000, it was legal to shoot grouse with a modern high-powered rifle (during modern rifle deer season) in the state of Washington.


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## mildot

Sweeney Road said:


> Until around the year 2000, it was legal to shoot grouse with a modern high-powered rifle (during modern rifle deer season) in the state of Washington.


Isolated exceptions don't count.

99.99999% of bird hunting in this country is done with shotguns and very small shot.


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## Lockwood

mildot said:


> Isolated exceptions don't count.
> 
> 99.99999% of bird hunting in this country is done with shotguns and very small shot.


So now we are a bird hunting expert?

Mildot Quote: I put zero credibility on someone who thinks birds are hunted with bullets.

Like I mentioned, I don't hunt. Period. 

It was the State Police who responded and apprehended the hunter. It was the Sate Police that took the hunter's gun that was shooting those real regular bullets. Um, the same bullet that damaged my house. You know... from that gun that was not a bird shot type of gun. The one that a few minutes later could have ripped a hole through my 6 year old.
Around here some folks hunt with anything that will shoot. Legal or not. In season or not.

I may not hunt, but I am smart enough to know that bird shot, unless fired at very close range, will generally not damage a house much less punch a hole in it.

Again, my question though...
How was Diesel63's comment rude, ignorant, and bigoted? 
Unless of course you don't wish to respond to a completely logical question. 

Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/trail-riding/trail-riding-etiquette-28760/page7/#ixzz1nXJ6x1EA


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## Celeste

I would think that if someone shot a rifle bullet into your house, they weren't hunting birds.


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## gunslinger

Lockwood said:


> By diesel63: "now im in the usa were I have to ware bright colour so the hunters wont shot! Oh the great outdoors."
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/trail-riding/trail-riding-etiquette-28760/page6/#ixzz1nVcFAqSv
> 
> How is this rude, ignorant, and bigoted?
> 
> I've lived and ridden in many places in the USA. Some places/states were heavy into hunting (as in guns, bang bang) areas, some very restricted hunting allowed, and some were heavy into fox hunting.
> In places where riders have to contend with year around hunting, there is a very real danger of being shot... riding or not.
> 
> I'm not from PA, but I currently live here in a heavy hunting area and during the heaviest activity seasons my child cannot even play out side for fear of being killed. Every single year a child or person gets killed by a "stray" bullet.
> I can't even recount the dealth tolls on the local livestock by the sober hunters, let alone the drunk ones.
> Several years ago while I was on the driveway waiting for the bus to drop off my son from school, a hunter shot my house. He was too busy trying to get the bird he was aiming at and didn't even pay attention to the fact that my house was on the other side of the road. Yup, he missed the bird.
> The track of the bullet missed me by about 25 to 30 feet.
> 
> During the various hunting seasons I cannot even walk to the mailbox without having to wear a bright orange hat and coat, let alone ride anywhere else on my OWN property. I really don't appreciate having to buy those items since I do not hunt animals in any way, however I like getting shot less.
> 
> Every year I also have to run off illegal hunters on the backside of my property. The same ones who are incredibly shoot happy and don't care that they are tresspassing and hunting in my pastures, next to my livestock and equines. They certainly don't stop to think about what they hit when the bullet misses the deer, quail, turkey...etc.
> 
> For some of us in the good "ol US of A, the threat from hunters is very real. Doesn't matter if we were born here or not.



Around here birds aren't hunted with bullets, but rather shotgun shot.

Your fear is unfounded.


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## Lockwood

gunslinger said:


> Around here birds aren't hunted with bullets, but rather shotgun shot.
> 
> Your fear is unfounded.


I don't live around where you do
Here is an exerpt from an article after yet another person in PA was shot by a stray bullet-
"According to the International Hunter Education Association, hunters accidentally shoot more than 1,000 people in the United States and Canada every year. Authorities in Pennsylvania worry that more bystanders will be injured by hunters' stray bullets as more homes are built near wooded areas where hunting is common.
"We have had several incidents of people reporting that their houses have gotten struck by stray bullets," said Sgt. Andre Stevens of the Pennsylvania State Police.
*Need for a New Common-Sense Hunting Law*
Pennsylvania game laws require hunters to remain 150 yards away from occupied homes and businesses when they use firearms. However, Burns' relatives say lawmakers should consider requiring greater distances because bullets can travel farther than 150 yards.
"They [authorities] are telling us that it [the bullet that wounded Burns] came from the orchard nearby and these guns are actually capable of going anywhere from 800 yards to 1,000 yards," Allie Dickinson, Burns' mother, said on "Good Morning America." "To me, that seems like a common-sense thing, that if a gun [gunshot] can travel a mile, then you need at least a mile safety distance between the hunter and a person that's just an innocent bystander like my daughter."

I don't have the death toll stats handy right now.

Yup, my fears are totally unfounded. 
The bullet whole in the side of my house is a complete figment of my imagination. 
Well mine _and _the State Police officer who investigated the incident.


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## gunslinger

Lockwood said:


> I don't live around where you do
> Here is an exerpt from an article after yet another person in PA was shot by a stray bullet-
> "According to the International Hunter Education Association, hunters accidentally shoot more than 1,000 people in the United States and Canada every year. Authorities in Pennsylvania worry that more bystanders will be injured by hunters' stray bullets as more homes are built near wooded areas where hunting is common.
> "We have had several incidents of people reporting that their houses have gotten struck by stray bullets," said Sgt. Andre Stevens of the Pennsylvania State Police.
> *Need for a New Common-Sense Hunting Law*
> Pennsylvania game laws require hunters to remain 150 yards away from occupied homes and businesses when they use firearms. However, Burns' relatives say lawmakers should consider requiring greater distances because bullets can travel farther than 150 yards.
> "They [authorities] are telling us that it [the bullet that wounded Burns] came from the orchard nearby and these guns are actually capable of going anywhere from 800 yards to 1,000 yards," Allie Dickinson, Burns' mother, said on "Good Morning America." "To me, that seems like a common-sense thing, that if a gun [gunshot] can travel a mile, then you need at least a mile safety distance between the hunter and a person that's just an innocent bystander like my daughter."
> 
> I don't have the death toll stats handy right now.
> 
> Yup, my fears are totally unfounded.
> The bullet whole in the side of my house is a complete figment of my imagination.
> Well mine _and _the State Police officer who investigated the incident.


So, if you need a mile, then there would be almost no place east of the Mississippi where anyone could hunt.

A hunter has a responsibility to know his target and whats beyond. Who ever is responsible, if found, would be guilty of criminal negligence if I were on the jury.

You don't think someone shot at your house on purpose do you?


----------



## mildot

Lockwood said:


> Again, my question though...
> How was Diesel63's comment rude, ignorant, and bigoted?
> Unless of course you don't wish to respond to a completely logical question.
> 
> Read more: http://www.horseforum.com/trail-riding/trail-riding-etiquette-28760/page7/#ixzz1nXJ6x1EA


I don't much feel the need to explain myself to you. You are ignorant about hunting and cherry pick "data" to make your anti hunting point.

You had zero credibility on this issue now you have even less.


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## Lockwood

mildot said:


> I don't much feel the need to explain myself to you. You are ignorant about hunting and cherry pick "data" to make your anti hunting point.
> You had zero credibility on this issue now you have even less.


Very wise of you to change your original response.

Again, I do not hunt. Therefore I am not as educated about hunting as someone who does, or someone who has passion about it.

However, I am not anti-hunting. I was never trying to make an anti hunting point. No where in any of my responses have I said people should not hunt or that it should be made illegal to hunt.
I have not once stated that I oppose hunting itself in any way.

My "cherry picking" was to show how many people are accidentally shot, or their homes are shot every year by hunters. Facts speak for themselves.

If I was trying to start an anti hunting rant, this is neither the appropriate place or thread for that. 

I am against ignorance, arrogance, closed mindedness, and irresponsibility in all forms.


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## Celeste

Generally if hunters follow the laws, they do not shoot people unless they shoot people who are where they are not supposed to be. Trespassers get shot accidentally because the hunter does not know they are there. My husband had a friend that accidentally shot a man. The man was trespassing. The friend took a shot at a deer; the man he shot was in full camouflage, between him and the deer he was trying to shoot. The incident caused the shooter severe psychological problems. He gave up hunting and now lives in Atlanta. He severely grieved the mistake. It was, however, not his mistake and not his fault. I do not trespass on private property during deer season.


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## Lockwood

gunslinger said:


> So, if you need a mile, then there would be almost no place east of the Mississippi where anyone could hunt.
> 
> A hunter has a responsibility to know his target and whats beyond. Who ever is responsible, if found, would be guilty of criminal negligence if I were on the jury.
> 
> You don't think someone shot at your house on purpose do you?


The mile thing was a quote from an article. Not my personal words.
You hit the nail right on the head- _A hunter has a responsibility to know his target and whats beyond. _I am glad you seem to be a responsible hunter, however just because you are doesn't mean all hunters are.
Many hunters in MY area do not follow the law.

If my incident were an isolated one, then I might be inclined to think it was on purpose. Unfortunately my incident is a very common one in my area. 
Neither myself nor the officer felt it was done with harmful intent. 
The 6' 5" man actually sat on the ground bawling like a baby beacuse his wife was going to kill him for being so stupid. He had just bought that gun, even though his wife told him not to, and just couldn't wait to see how well it worked.
Ignorant and irresponsible.
I was lucky my house was the only thing damaged. Most of the people shot around here are shot during a specific season.


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## Elky

> Personally, I think that having Sunday as the only deemed "safe" day is not fair since hunters already get the other 6 as it is.


And people wanting to hike, bike, jog, horseback also have many months a year that hunters are not allowed to hunt. Why do people want to restrict the amount of time a hunter can spend in the woods or forest? I can see from several posts on here, that the horse riders want the forest and trails all to themselves. I can also see where some riders see nothing wrong with sharing our great lands. Just because I live in a place that is wide open and very few people compared to the eastern part of the country, does not mean that I do not come across the same situations as people on the east. I ride in the mountains as much as I can, and the trails are heavily used by hikers, joggers and mountain bikers as well. Even during hunting season the bikers and hikers are everywhere. Some of the routes they take are many, many miles. I can choose for myself either to accept them or not. I can choose to go further into a trailess area or choose to hunt where the trails also cut through heavily forested lands, and if I choose the latter, I also have made the choice to share the lands that belong to all of us.
There are a lot of people that are anti-gun and anti-hunting, and those people will say, assume, and do whatever they can to put the hunters or people with guns in a bad spot light.

No rules, regulations or laws, either state or federal is going to fix stupid, you just cannot fix stupid. Accidents do happen and some could perhaps have been avoided, but most of the time it is still an accident. I truly wish that people would quit generalizing hunters as being a bunch of drunk slobs out to kill anything that moves.


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## Elky

Another thing that really annoys me about people being stupid is during hunting season when I come across a biker or hiker, with his/her dog, not wearing bright colors. I have seen them wearing black, browns, greens and grays. I have spoken to them on occasion and most just did not think about it, others just don’t care and only have the anti-hunter agenda. They tell me I am a killer. These people are a disaster looking for a place to happen. I have also had bikers come screaming past me on a trail, giving no regard for me or my horse, even though the law states that horses have the right of way. Things happen, get over it and learn to deal with it.

So I think (in my best sarcastic voice) that bikers and hikers should not be allowed on the trails. Maybe they should make a regulation or a law that dictates to them what clothing they can and cannot wear.


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## gunslinger

Except they already have laws that dictate what hunters are allowed to shoot at.

Maybe if they locked up the ones that didn't clearly identify their targets and what's beyond, there would be less "accidents" of this type.

I love to hunt but darn it, if I can't be sure it's a deer, then I sure as heck wouldn't pull the trigger.

Personal responsibility for ones actions, and being held accountable for them is what we need.

No excuses. Know your target and what's beyond. PERIOD!!!! NO GUESSING.


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## Lockwood

Elky said:


> And people wanting to hike, bike, jog, horseback also have many months a year that hunters are not allowed to hunt.


No, we don't.
Laws & Regulations

If you care to read the above link, there are no "closed" seasons for some of the things people hunt here on a regular basis. Again I will say, I do not oppose hunting. Nor do I oppose gun ownership.

There is a man across the street hunting as I type. Based on his dog's breed I think he is after birds. Many people in MY area use hunting as a means to feed their families or earn money to feed their families instead of for sport. Having lived in pIaces where there were a great number of_ responsible and sober _hunters, my family included, I have made my statements specific to MY current location.

The woman who was shot mentioned in the information I pulled about the stats, was sitting in her car, in her driveway. Many of the accidents that have happened to people in MY area were to people on their own property, minding their own business. These lives have been severely impacted because of some else's irresponsibilty while participating in a sport.

You are right. Nothing can fix outright stupid, but ignorance and irresponsibilty can be fixed. Accidents do happen, some that are beyond our control but most, sadly, could have been avoided.

When I am out on multi use public land, I do not gripe about having to wear bright colors to be safe. But I do not think I should have to wear them while on my own property to be safe. Neither do my neighbors and the people who live in my county. I can easily see why some people might not want to wear blaze orange while out riding public trails to feel safe, and why they might make a comment about it on a forum thread about trail safety.

Last year there was a huge front page new story in our paper about how this was the first year that no one was shot on opening weekend of deer season. It had been such a long time since that had happened, it was a huge deal in MY area. :shock:

In other areas I have lived, ridden, and hiked. There were restrictions on who or what, can and can not be on certain trails. There are plenty of public places and lands where horses were never allowed to go in any season or time. And I have no problem with that.

Men do stupid things. Doesn't mean we should generalize that all men are bad. Women do stupid things, doesn't mean we should generalize all women are bad. Some horse owners do stupid and cruel things, doesn't mean we should generalize that all horse people are bad. Hunters do stupid things, doesn't mean.... well I think you get the point.

By the same token I wish people would quit thinking that just because something is a certain way where they live, that it is the same where others live. And I also wish some people would realize that just because they participates in activity "xyz", that everyone who does activity "xyz" is right, or does it safely, with proper education, or is responsible about it. Whatever... hunting, riding, gun ownership, drinking, gambling, ATV riding, knitting, hiking, ... well, ok perhaps not knitting...


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## Elky

I have looked at that. For the most part with the exception of a few animals, OPOSSUM, SKUNKS & WEASELS, the hunting of game animals runs from Oct. - May, depending on the species and the hunt area. There is nothing in there that say there is year round hunting state wide in Pa. for all game animals. I highly doubt that there are hundreds of drunk crazed hunters running around the entire state of Pa. shooting possums, skunks and weasels on a daily basis.

I see closed seasons for deer, elk, squirrels, quail, grouse, turkeys, rabbits, hares, porcupines, crows, raccoons, pheasants, fox, bear and others.



> In other areas I have lived, ridden, and hiked. There were restrictions on who or what, can and can not be on certain trails. There are plenty of public places and lands where horses were never allowed to go in any season or time. And I have no problem with that.


 If it is public land, there should be no restriction for anyone to be able to go there. The biker, hiker, hunter has the same rights as the person on horseback. If it is open for one, it is open for all. There are restrictions on vehicle use on public lands because of abuse in certain areas, but the individual can still go on there, but without his dirt bike or quad. Same as wilderness arears, open to everyone, year round, just do not bring any mechanized means of trasportation which means no hang gliders, bikes, machined vehicles, planes or hellicopters.


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## Celeste

Now I've got to ask. Why would anybody want to hunt a porcupine? Do they eat them? Make weapons out of their quills?


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## Elky

God gave us the gifts of creativity, intelligence, and the capacity to experience joy because He wanted us to_ use_ them, and one of the biggest indictments against modern society is that it denies people the opportunity to fully develop their natural abilities and live in ways that would allow the human spirit to flourish. Government rules and regulations take that freedom away. Hard true fact!


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## gunslinger

Celeste said:


> Now I've got to ask. Why would anybody want to hunt a porcupine? Do they eat them? Make weapons out of their quills?


You've never eaten a porcupine?


----------



## Lockwood

Elky said:


> I have looked at that. For the most part with the exception of a few animals, OPOSSUM, SKUNKS & WEASELS, the hunting of game animals runs from Oct. - May, depending on the species and the hunt area. There is nothing in there that say there is year round hunting state wide in Pa. for all game animals. I highly doubt that there are hundreds of drunk crazed hunters running around the entire state of Pa. shooting possums, skunks and weasels on a daily basis.
> 
> I see closed seasons for deer, elk, squirrels, quail, grouse, turkeys, rabbits, hares, porcupines, crows, raccoons, pheasants, fox, bear and others.
> 
> If it is public land, there should be no restriction for anyone to be able to go there. The biker, hiker, hunter has the same rights as the person on horseback. If it is open for one, it is open for all. There are restrictions on vehicle use on public lands because of abuse in certain areas, but the individual can still go on there, but without his dirt bike or quad. Same as wilderness arears, open to everyone, year round, just do not bring any mechanized means of trasportation which means no hang gliders, bikes, machined vehicles, planes or hellicopters.


I don't know what to say except that perhaps the influence of Appalachian culture has had a bigger impact here, than where you live or hunt. It is still a very real part of some communities here in how people live, hunt, and feed their families.

I highly doubt there are hundreds of drunk crazed hunters running around the entire state of PA shooting 'possums, skunks, and weasels on a daily basis as well. They are all here in my area. :wink:

As for the restrictions on public land... as an avid backpacker and hiker of state, local, national, recreational, and wilderness parks, I have seen plenty of these restricted trails. I was tipped off by the signs that say "No Horses" or "No Bicycles" or my favorite "No Foot Traffic."


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## Lockwood

gunslinger said:


> You've never eaten a porcupine?


My neighbors tell me "possum stew is quite tasty.


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## Elky

Lockwood, I was not always in Wyoming. I lived most of my life in NY (37 yrs) and even in lower NY never ran into the problems you say you have. But more regulations will do no good. If someone is already breaking the law, do you really think that more laws are going to stop them? I guess you are stuck with it unless you move to another location.


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## Celeste

gunslinger said:


> You've never eaten a porcupine?


You have?


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## Hailey1203

Just a question. Is it considered "bad" if i was to tie a red ribbon to my horses tail, simply because i dont know whether or not he's a kicker?


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## Lockwood

Hailey1203 said:


> Just a question. Is it considered "bad" if i was to tie a red ribbon to my horses tail, simply because i dont know whether or not he's a kicker?


No, not at all. 
I for one would appreciate the warning if you have a horse you are unsure about.


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## gunslinger

missed post....sorry guys and gals...


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## Celeste

Now now Gunslinger, are you sure you aren't just afraid to admit that you actually do eat porcupines?


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## gunslinger

Celeste said:


> Now now Gunslinger, are you sure you aren't just afraid to admit that you actually do eat porcupines?


Taste like chicken......


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## Singh559

Great reminders for riders. Thanksf or compiling this.


----------



## its lbs not miles

There was actually a different thread that posed the "hunting and riding" issues.

That being said.
People so get shot a lot. Mostly because so many hunters do not follow good hunting practices.
You don't shoot unless you are "on target". If there is something between you and the deer you don't pull the trigger. My last hunt on public land (long ago) saw a man (in orange, legally there) killed because someone shoot "through" him with a .308. Bushes blocked his location from another hunter who shot at a deer "through" where the first hunter was positioned. Clearly the hunter, who was shooting at the deer, did NOT have a clear shot (or he was a terrible shot if he had the deer in the clear) if he had to shoot through something. Accident or not, the hunter was wrong and it would not have happended if he'd used safe hunting practices.
I hunt. Have done so for 46 years (even trained my first QH to hunt from). Amoung the many safety rules I grew up with was you never shoot at what you don't have a clear shot at. Always know what is in the direction you're shooting to ensure you don't shot towards a road, house or where people might reasonably be. Common sense really, but to often not practiced.

Granted, I have to good fortune to own enough land that I don't need public land to hunt on, but the rules still apply. The 8 people I allow to hunt on my land have to follow simple rules. 
1: All shots are restricted to a certain roughly 60 degree area from a center point on my land, because there is nothing but woods and no homes, roads or trails in that that direction for over a mile.
2: All hunting is done from tree stands so that any round fired will go into the ground if it's a miss.
3: Any shot had must be at something clearly identifiable and clearly seen.

It's unfortunate that so many hunters have given hunting a bad name. I don't defend hunting. I do it, but I don't defend it, because in trying to defend it for the good hunters I'm doing so for those who (just in my opinion) really have no business hunting or being allowed to. Having a hunting licence give you the right to hunt. Pity it's not regulated in the way that haveing a drivers license gives you the right to drive. Depending on what you want to hunt, you can hunt all year here. Some animals are always in season (e.g. beaver and coyote) and in some cases you don't even need a license or permit to hunt them. Scary if you think about it and I'm thankful that many people are not aware of that or there would be even more stray bullets flying around.

Hunters are the reason hunting gets a negative rap. People are always letting me know that my posted signs are shot to pieces and I know it's "hunters" who are doing it, because I won't allow them to hunt on my land.

As for riding during season. I ride. I have the right to ride on public roads and public trails that allow horses. It's really not my job to dress my horse in orange or wear a flashing light on top of my hat so a hunter can determine if it's a horse or a deer. If the hunter can't tell the difference then they shouldn't be hunting. If they can't control their urge to shoot when they can't clearly ID what they are shooting at and have a clear shot, then they shouldn't be hunting. If they can't make sure that their missed round won't travel to a location that might potentially have something that might not need to be shot in it, then they shouldn't be making the shot. I keep animals on some of the land I allow to be hunted, as do some of my neighbors. A fencing keeps the animals in certain aress. The rifles have to point in a different direction. And if an animal gets out (it can happen) then it's up to the hunter to know what they are shooting at. A deer is not a domestic animal and the hunters on my land have to be able to tell the difference.

Hunting accidents happen when someone with a weapon breaks some fundamental safety rule. It's sad the a very enjoyable and beneficial activity (hunting in this case) is being diminished more and more by people who profess to be "hunters" because they are able to get a license and a weapon, but can't seem to find the common sense and practice good hunting safety. Not saying that all hunters don't. Many are very good and I've known some that are even more strict about their rules for hunting than I am, but there are far to many that shouldn't be out there.


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## Lockwood

Well said.


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## Elky

> Hunters are the reason hunting gets a negative rap.


What you are saying is, if there were noting but responsible hunters, there would be no more anti-hunters. So I have to assume that the anti-hunting crowd is only there because of bad hunters. Has it ever occured to you that anti-hunting groups will be there regardless and will, and do, go out of their way to condemn hunting and if they could, they would have hunting taken away from everyone. Do you defend your right, or privilege to drive? By your post above, I would say not, because bad drivers give *all* *drivers* a bad name. The same goes for people on bikes. They are about the most irresponsible people on the road today. We have spent millions of dollars for bike paths here, and yet the people on bikes ride on the sholder of the road, along the white line, instead of on the bike paths. So by your logic, they are the ones that give all bikers a bad rep. Maybe they should regulate biking like they do driving, make them take a written test and a road test so they can have the RIGHT to bike.



> I ride. I have the right to ride on public roads and public trails that allow horses. It's really not my job to dress my horse in orange or wear a flashing light on top of my hat so a hunter can determine if it's a horse or a deer.


 No it is not your jobto dress like that, but it is your responsibility to take safe measures throughout life to hopefully prevent accidents or tragidy. Do you not wear a seat belt while in a car or truck? Is it wise to have a fire extinguisher in ones house or home? Is it not wise to drive at night with your lights on? Is it not wise or ones resonsibilyt to salt the icy steps at ones house or business to prevent an accident? It is not your responsibility to ride your horse on the side of the road, far enough away from moving traffic, or if it is not your job to do so, thne you will be giving all horse riders a bad name.

So when the above poster says well said, I say very poorly said.


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## its lbs not miles

Elky said:


> No it is not your jobto dress like that, but it is your responsibility to take safe measures throughout life to hopefully prevent accidents or tragidy. Do you not wear a seat belt while in a car or truck? Is it wise to have a fire extinguisher in ones house or home? Is it not wise to drive at night with your lights on? Is it not wise or ones resonsibilyt to salt the icy steps at ones house or business to prevent an accident? It is not your responsibility to ride your horse on the side of the road, far enough away from moving traffic, or if it is not your job to do so, thne you will be giving all horse riders a bad name.
> 
> So when the above poster says well said, I say very poorly said.


What I said is that if all hunters conducted themselves properly and hunted responsibly there would not be th issues there are. You wil always have PETA and the like, but they represent a minority of those with problems over hunting. People getting shot by a stay bullet in their yard (it's happened) and hunters shooting other hunters even some dressed in orange (it's happened) and cars getting hit while going down the road (it's happened....I've a bullet hole in my arm to prove it...and your seat belt doesn't matter much to the bullet), etc, etc, etc......

And IF hunters were all responsible people wouldn't have to worry about getting shoot. So yes, it does fall on the hunter.

This argument that it's my responsibility to prevent accidents.....do you?
Are you taking responsibility for protecting yourself and your horse from hunters who are not? Are you and your horse wearing body armor? Are you driving an APC? Is your house hardened to withstand a high powered bullet? Do you have a privacy fence higher than your horses and thick enough to stop a 30.06 round? Remember....according to you it's "your responsibility to take safe measures throughout life to hopefully prevent accidents or tragidy", not the hunters responsibility to hunt in a responsible manner. So it must be your fault if something happens to you, not the nut who shouldn't have been hunting to begin with.


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## Lockwood

Elky said:


> No it is not your jobto dress like that, but it is your responsibility to take safe measures throughout life to hopefully prevent accidents or tragidy. Do you not wear a seat belt while in a car or truck? Is it wise to have a fire extinguisher in ones house or home? Is it not wise to drive at night with your lights on? Is it not wise or ones resonsibilyt to salt the icy steps at ones house or business to prevent an accident?
> 
> So when the above poster says well said, I say very poorly said.


I wear a seat belt because it is the law.
I have fire extinguishers because fire does not reason, think or act "irresponsibly". Therefore apples to oranges in this context.
I drive at night with lights because it is the law.
I use salt, again, because it is the law. (Most likely written as code violations for not using salt in the above parameters) 

As for the last statement, you are certainly allowed to have your own opinion, just as I am.


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## kevinshorses

I thought perhaps the debate over the chances of getting shot during hunting season was getting a little overblown so I did a little google search and I was right (as usual). You have almost twice as much chance of getting hit by lightning than struck by a bullet. Your chances of dying from an accidental shooting is also lower than that of dying from a lightning strike. 

While I think it's a good idea to be cautious and wear an orange hat or something while riding I would'nt think it worth all the outrage that I see when this is discussed.


According to the National Weather Service, lightning causes an average of 62 deaths and 300 injuries in the United States each year.

Hunting accidents account for approximately 160 accidental shootings each year, with an average of 50 fatalities.


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## Lockwood

Hmm... I use bing and here is what I found...

-According to the International Hunter Education Association, hunters accidentally shoot more than 1,000 people in the United States and Canada every year.
Just under 100 of those result in fatalities.

http://www.ihea.com/_assets/documents/Incidents/HIC2007Mar08.pdf
There are over 239 shooting with details listed just in this report. Amazing how many were bird related and also as those who "did not identify their target" related. I didn't bother to look at the other incident reports.

Here's the thing about lightning... It is a force of nature. Much like fires and floods. Humans can not control forces of nature. Just can't.

Hunting accidents happen from the hands of humans to other humans.
Any human death from hunting is one death too many.


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## kevinshorses

Lockwood said:


> Hmm... I use bing and here is what I found...
> 
> -According to the International Hunter Education Association, hunters accidentally shoot more than 1,000 people in the *United States and Canada* every year.
> *Just under 100 of those result in fatalities.*
> 
> 
> Hunting accidents happen from the hands of humans to other humans.
> Any human death from hunting is one death too many.


Okay I find it pretty easy to believe that with the U.S. and Canada COMBINED there are just under 100 fatalities. Canada has about 34 million people and the U.S. has about 310 million people so your chances of being killed by a hunter are 1:3,440,000. There are about 200 equestrian deaths every year. You are exponentially more likely to be killed by riding than to be shot off your horse by a hunter. The odds of getting in a crash while driving to a trailhead or where your horse is boarded is probably 100 times more likely than getting killed riding your horse. There are about 45,000 auto related deaths per year. You're much more likely to be killed before you ever get close to a hunter.

My point with all this boring crap is that it's nothing to get too worked up about. You should take reasonable precautions to stay safe just like with anything else you do but don't get too worked up about it.


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## Joe4d

odds are meaningless.
People choose to ride, choose to drive, choose lots of activities and we make choices about those risks. NO one chooses to get shot by a trespassing hunter.
The general public as well as law enforcement seems to be un caring and ignorant of hunting laws, there is zero enforcement of any of it.
Case in point. 2 minors, hear dogs running across the road aproaching a corn field, grab loaded shotguns, get in truck, drive across road to corn field, jump out of truck grab shotgun and minor A shoots and kills minor B,,,,
News media all over about how tragic oh so sad, boo hooo, NO mention at all of the long list of crimes that led to this, No prosecution of the parents, no prosecution of the other minor, NO MEDIA OUT CRY at the lack of prosecution.
Crimes committed that day,
minors X 2 illegal unsupervised possession of firearms,
loaded long arms in a motor vehicle,
tresspass,
hun ting within 400 feet of road,
hunting from a motor vehicle,

But of course zero enforcement or prosecution.


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## Celeste

The risk of getting shot probably depends on where you are. If there are a lot of hunters, it goes up. If there are a lot of trees to stop bullets, it goes down. If there are tons of trespassers, it goes up.


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## Lockwood

kevinshorses said:


> Okay I find it pretty easy to believe that with the U.S. and Canada COMBINED there are just under 100 fatalities. Canada has about 34 million people and the U.S. has about 310 million people so your chances of being killed by a hunter are 1:3,440,000. You're much more likely to be killed before you ever get close to a hunter.
> *What about just plain shot and not killed? That's no picnic either.*
> 
> My point with all this boring crap is that it's nothing to get too worked up about. You should take reasonable precautions to stay safe just like with anything else you do but don't get too worked up about it.


Easy for you to say, I doubt you have been on the other side of the gun.
You missed the point. I don't think everyone is stitting around chewing their nails saying "Oh dear, oh dear, I'm scared I will be next." Probably not even those of us who have been directly affected.
If a numbers context is better...
I choose to ride MY horse on MY land. I do something irresponsible, get bucked off, hurt myself and or possibly die.
Impact to you- zero
Impact to society- One (although now my son is an orphan, but that's another story)
HUNTER decides to hunt. Whether on his land or public land, anyone withing bullet range is potentially at risk. Hunter makes irresponsible choice resulting in an accident.
Impact to person struck- HUGE 
Impact to person's family- Also HUGE
Impact to society- about 1000 people annually in North America. 
Impact to society in actual deaths- Immeasurable! And over the years... thousands.

I can not understand this seemingly "Eh, it's only around 100 people each year who get killed, what's the big deal?" attitude. Not to mention the pain, trauma, scars, or disabilities to the 900 or so people who survive each year. All caused at the hands of humans in the name of sport.

My chosen sports or hobbies (riding, skiing, scuba diving, hiking, backpacking, canoeing, kayaking, and crochet) rarely, if ever, have that impact. 
Irresponsible hunters in your chosen sport directly effect innocent people. People minding their own business who did NOT ask to be shot.

So, just to make sure I'm not misunderstanding here.... Your right to participate in the sport of hunting is more important that human life, beacuse... well its not too terribly many innocent people getting killed, right? 
Ok, perhaps a little snarky, but my point is, people should have the right to be on public land and on their own private property and feel safe from stray bullets.
If I wanted to encounter a stray bullet then I would go running through the game lands during the peak of deer season. It should not happen while I am digging in my garden.


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## Lockwood

Joe4d said:


> odds are meaningless.
> People choose to ride, choose to drive, choose lots of activities and we make choices about those risks. NO one chooses to get shot by a trespassing hunter.
> The general public as well as law enforcement seems to be un caring and ignorant of hunting laws, there is zero enforcement of any of it.
> Case in point. 2 minors, hear dogs running across the road aproaching a corn field, grab loaded shotguns, get in truck, drive across road to corn field, jump out of truck grab shotgun and minor A shoots and kills minor B,,,,
> News media all over about how tragic oh so sad, boo hooo, NO mention at all of the long list of crimes that led to this, No prosecution of the parents, no prosecution of the other minor, NO MEDIA OUT CRY at the lack of prosecution.
> Crimes committed that day,
> minors X 2 illegal unsupervised possession of firearms,
> loaded long arms in a motor vehicle,
> tresspass,
> hun ting within 400 feet of road,
> hunting from a motor vehicle,
> 
> But of course zero enforcement or prosecution.


Agree with you on this one.
I think according to the PA Game Commission, title 34 section 901, the game commission enforces the laws on all things hunting and game related. The game comm. has a huge "reach" in PA and is not very popular with local law enforcement or the citizens. 
Not sure how it is on other states as I'm not inclined to go look it up.

I realize in your example they were after dogs, but if it was deemed a "hunting" accident then perhaps local law enforcements hands were tied. (Didn't say it was right though)


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## Joe4d

delete...


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## gunslinger

I think it really comes down to personal responsibility, both of the rider, and of the hunter.

I have every right to ride in the woods during hunting season. Common sense tells me that if I chose to ride where I know there are hunters, that I take reasonable precaution by wearing bright colors and making plenty of noise. Opening weekend is always the time that many of the least experienced hunters are in the woods, so I choose to ride in a place that's closed to hunting.

If I'm the hunter, I have every right to hunt, and again, common sense tells me that every thing that moves isn't a target. It's my responsibility when I pull the trigger, to make sure of my target and what's beyond. No deer is worth the consequences should I do other wise.

What makes the public property worth anything is the ability of the people to use it. We as horsemen and horsewomen continue to fight for access to public land. Hunters face the same task, access to public property.

I'm of the opinion that limiting access to one group makes it easier to limit access to another group. Horsemen and women, ATV'ers, hunters, etc need each other. To exclude one is to exclude all in the end. We'd be better off working together and our lack of cooperation hurts us all.

It's really pretty simple, "Love thy neighbor", and "Treat other people as you wish to be treated".

What goes around, comes around, and misery loves company.


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## loveduffy

I wish that more people know these rules- about hunting and riding just stay out of some area like we do here during hunting season


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## calicokatt

Lockwood said:


> If a numbers context is better...
> I choose to ride MY horse on MY land. I do something irresponsible, get bucked off, hurt myself and or possibly die.
> Impact to you- zero
> Impact to society- One (although now my son is an orphan, but that's another story)
> HUNTER decides to hunt. Whether on his land or public land, anyone withing bullet range is potentially at risk. Hunter makes irresponsible choice resulting in an accident.
> Impact to person struck- HUGE
> Impact to person's family- Also HUGE
> Impact to society- about 1000 people annually in North America.
> Impact to society in actual deaths- Immeasurable! And over the years... thousands.
> ]


This comparison cracks me up! If the impact if you do something stupid on your horse and die is only 1, you are leaving out the rest of the comparison: impact to person's family: HUGE. Also, you go from one hunter making an irresponsible choice resulting in 1 accident, to ALL 1000 that happen annually. If you do something stupid on your horse and die, the impact is half of what it would be if a hunter does something stupid and someone dies, because not only is the victim and victim's family affected, so is the hunter and the hunter's family. So it is not a difference of 1 to 1000, as you seem to be trying to say. Hunting is legal. Laws are hard to enforce. We're not allowed to shoot the stupid, and there will always be accidents.


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## Lockwood

calicokatt said:


> This comparison cracks me up! If the impact if you do something stupid on your horse and die is only 1, you are leaving out the rest of the comparison: impact to person's family: HUGE. Also, you go from one hunter making an irresponsible choice resulting in 1 accident, to ALL 1000 that happen annually. If you do something stupid on your horse and die, the impact is half of what it would be if a hunter does something stupid and someone dies, because not only is the victim and victim's family affected, so is the hunter and the hunter's family. So it is not a difference of 1 to 1000, as you seem to be trying to say.


Sorry, wasn't trying to imply it that way. I should have added an "s" to the word HUNTER both times and an "s" to the word CHOICES. 

There was previous mention that I could get killed from riding a horse. And yes I could, but it is my choice to ride and if I make a stupid mistake it doesn't affect others. And most horse riding sports and activities fall along the same lines. 
But in this context, mistakes made by irresponsible hunter*s *affect roughly 1000 people each year.

IMHO the sport of others shouldn't have the capacity to hurt society to that extent and to that many people. Particularily when some of those people have no choice in the matter and it is not as simple as "Just stay away from where they hunt."
Not everyone has the choice to just choose a different place to live or a different trail to ride.


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## kevinshorses

So do you think there shouldn't be hunting?


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## Celeste

I am not a hunter. I would feel very sad to kill a deer and I cried when I saw Bambi for the first time. That is just for the record.

There are other statistics that need to be mentioned. If all hunting was stopped, then the prey species (in our area whitetail deer) would have a huge increase in population. Eventually, they would exceed their carrying capacity and have a huge die off. But before they reached their limit, they would start to cause other problems. 

Deer run into cars and cause wrecks.
Deer eat crops intended for human use.
Deer eat pastures intended for horses and other domestic species.
Deer eat rose bushes. (That really sucks.)

I live in the very heart of deer hunting territory in Georgia. I have never been shot. 

I have totaled 2 different cars when I was driving down the highway, minding my own business, obeying the traffic laws, and had a deer jump into my car. (Actually cars.) In one of the incidences, the deer jumped into the moving car, shattered glass, died, broke (big mess -- blood and guts all in my car), and the glass cut my little girl's face and barely missed blinding her for life. Stopping deer hunting would eliminate the obscure chance of being shot by a hunter. It would greatly increase the chance of being killed in a car wreck when a deer commits suicide by jumping in front of your car. The automobile insurance companies are huge advocates of deer hunting. According to our local forester, the insurance companies actively lobby in Georgia to increase bag limits on deer.


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## mildot

kevinshorses said:


> So do you think there shouldn't be hunting?


It's for the children (TM)


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## Lockwood

kevinshorses said:


> So do you think there shouldn't be hunting?


In my previous posts I have stated that do not oppose RESPONSIBLE hunting, and I still don't. 
I actually agree with Celeste. (And I cry in every disney movie where an animal gets killed, but I've also had major car damage from hitting deer, although not to the extent as Celeste in that my child was not with me.)

Without some extra predation many types of animal populations would get out of control, especially deer. Far too often though, hunting is associated with just deer when in fact it is done year around in many states and for different animal species.

I own 20 acres. The front portion close to house and barns has about 800' directly facing the public lands that people hunt on. My house sits about 75' off the road and is just down and across the street from the trailhead access. The rest butt up to woods and fields. 

All 20 acres get tresspassed upon year 'round by whom ever, when ever, hunting what ever because I am surrounded and hunters think it is okay to go wherever they wish.
My signs make no difference. My fences make no difference. Other than the house being shot incident with state police involement, calling the game comm or local law enforcement makes no difference.

I'v had hunters illegally hunt on my land, hit my house, shoot near my animals, set up their stands on my land, gut deer and leave their mess on my land, let their dumb dogs chase after my livestock (lucky for the dogs the owner got them before I did) threaten to come back and "bag" my turkey (domestic breed of turkey that stay in my pasture 24/7) and generally not give a hoot about anything but "getting the kill." The gunfire (to which there is A LOT) still bothers some of my animals. Thankfully some are used to it by now. 

In my defense, I am not from here. Where I lived previously hunting is practriced safely and far away from farms, so I did not fully understand the implications of living near to public lands and trails here. But even so, this is not how it should be.

So, as I said before, for some of us it is not a simple as just "staying out of hunting areas or off those trails during deer season." Those trails go all around my farm, and year around hunting is allowed.

I do believe hunting can and should be done safely and responsibly, thereby elimintating most human deaths and many many accidents. This in turn, would probably make riders feel safer riding on public trails


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## Celeste

It sounds like you have serious neighbor issues. If those guys are leasing hunting land, I would contact the actual land owner. This would most likely put a fire under them to behave.


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## gunslinger

Funny, because all the private land I've hunted has usually been farms.

Trespassing, by hunters or anyone else for that matter is against the law.

Jokingly, we've been trying to figure out how to live with rude yankee's from the time of the war of northern aggression to present day. It hasn't worked that well for us southerns either!:lol:

Sounds like a lack of proper upbringing, mind you, nobody raised them yankee boys right.


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## Lockwood

gunslinger said:


> Jokingly, we've been trying to figure out how to live with rude yankee's from the time of the war of northern aggression to present day. It hasn't worked that well for us southerns either!:lol:
> 
> Sounds like a lack of proper upbringing, mind you, nobody raised them yankee boys right.


Me thinks you doth stir the pot a wee little bit. :twisted:


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## Joe4d

plenty of drunk southern ******** around my place in VA do the same dang thing.
It really ****es me off to see you guys keep posting "X" is against the law.

FOR ABOUT THE HUNDREDTH TIME, THE LAW DOESNT MATTER, LAZY COPS DONT ENFORCE IT, SLOB HUNTERS DONT FOLLOW IT.


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## gunslinger

Joe4d said:


> plenty of drunk southern ******** around my place in VA do the same dang thing.
> It really ****es me off to see you guys keep posting "X" is against the law.
> 
> FOR ABOUT THE HUNDREDTH TIME, THE LAW DOESNT MATTER, LAZY COPS DONT ENFORCE IT, SLOB HUNTERS DONT FOLLOW IT.


All I can tell you Joe is one man one vote. Vote the sheriff out and a new one in. If that don't work then do it again in four years. Repeat as necessary.


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## jennyandjesse

This post was originally started about trail riding etiquette, so I have an etiquette question. I ride alone, down the gravel road, in the ditch where I can. What are the rules about cars? I have been told that each state has their own rules, but who knows them? I was never taught in driver's ed, nor can I find anything out about this for my state. 

As far as hunting here in MN, so much of what I have read is true to both sides. I don't ride during hunting season because of those very few overzealous people, no matter how few. It's just not worth it to me. 

I hear about all the "colors" being worn, has anybody worn bells to alert hunters? There was a rage about rythym beads during hunting season, but I don't think they are loud enough.


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## Joe4d

you are right about the traffic laws, in VA cars are required to slow down, and there is actually a law on how many feet they are required to move over to pass. Cant find the actual code to quote for you .But as stated earlier. All the laws in the world are worthless if cops dont enforce them.


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## jennyandjesse

Joe4d said:


> All the laws in the world are worthless if cops dont enforce them.


How can they enforce them if nobody reports them? I'm too busy trying to keep my horse from bolting instead of trying to read the license plate as they go by


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## Darrin

Yeah, every state is different. Think it has since been removed from the books now but no more then 20 years ago in one state, a motorist was required to stop, dismantle their car and carry it past a horse if it spooked.

In Oregon everything yields to horses but you wont find that in our drivers book either. Unfortunately it is buried in the regs but where you find the signs are on state park multi use trails. You might try your states park services and see if they can direct you to the proper regulation.


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## jennyandjesse

Darrin said:


> Yeah, every state is different. Think it has since been removed from the books now but no more then 20 years ago in one state, a motorist was required to stop, dismantle their car and carry it past a horse if it spooked.
> 
> :rofl:


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## gunslinger

Not sure about the law but think Mass times velocity squared.

A car is bigger, faster, heavier and metal.

Best thing to do is stay out of their way.


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## Celeste

Most people around here will slow down and let you go by. Occasionally there will be a jerk that practically runs you over. One guy deliberately tried to run me down on a narrow road with steep sides that kept me from getting off the road. I showed him my .38 and he changed his mind. It still goes back to the mass times velocity squared thing. Anybody know the momentum of a .38 bullet moving toward a truck? Don't worry, I didn't shoot him.


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## WesternBella

Thanks for the tips everyone!! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chumbawumba

Hi Everyone,
Not sure if this is the right place for these questions but thought I would give it ago.
I wondered when you're on a trail riding in San Diego Ca and your horse poops, are you supposed to pick it up??
Also how long can you ride on a trail for before you need to give your horsie some water.
Thank you in advance


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## Joe4d

the poopp is gonna be a local rule thing, if it is an actual horse trail I wwouldnt expect so, but CA is known for screwey restrictive laws unless yo are an actual criminal.

Water will depend on your horse and what you consider a trail ride. A typical training day for me would be a couple 12 mile loops with a water stop on each loop. I am riding at mostly a canter. Pretty much every five miles or so I would stop at a creek if there was one, or make it a point to find water at around 10. sometimes they will drink sometimes not.


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## Celeste

How often to let them drink also depends on the weather. If it is extremely hot, they will get dehydrated more quickly. Never restrict water; the issue is being sure that they get access to it. I figure that if I am thirsty, my horse is too.


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## Chumbawumba

Hi Joe4d,
Thanks for the info, so my next question is, is it completely ok for your horsie to drink from a stream or river??
I am thinking do they carry virus's or harmful bacteria to the horse?
Also is 42 miles a typical ride for the day for the average horse? that seems a lot to me.
I haven't gotten my horse yet, so just picking up what I need to know here and there.
I am sure every horse is different maybe this is a question for the person I purchase my horse from???

Thanks again for your time


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## Celeste

42 miles is a really long ride. The horse will have to be highly conditioned and trained to do that well. He also will have to be a really sound horse. There is also your own training to consider. If I ride 42 miles in one day, I won't be able to move for a week. Joe, on the other hand, would be fine. To him, it is just another day.

As far as horses getting sick from drinking from streams, it is unlikely unless there is a severe pollution problem.


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## jennyandjesse

42 miles is very long, typically the pioneers didn't go more than 15-25 a day, but I guess they were walking and sparing thier animals. I go about 6 and it takes a couple hours which also includes tacking up.

As far as drinking out of a river or stream, can't wait to see th responses on that. I am an agriculture major and I would consider it unsafe. Some rivers and streams might be ok, but I wouldn't risk it. There are things that you can't see and I would use that water as a last resport. Pesticide and fertilizer runoff from farmers, industrial chemical runoff, animals feces that could contain pathogens such as gerardia and coccidia are just to name a few things that might be found in water that looks relatively safe. These things can travel a long ways so even if you don't immediately see the effects, (dead fish, garbage) doesn't mean they aren't there. Even the lowly person who has a yard up the way who put fertilizer on their grass or chemicals to kill the weeds on the shore could contribute to the pollution. I would google your area and see what the reports are. For myself, if I was to go on a long ride, I would find a way to carry my own water, or just wait until I got back home.


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## kevinshorses

42 miles is a really long ride and would require a horse in excellent shape and take the better part of the day. Don't drink from any water. Bring your own. I've drank out of large fast moving rivers or places I could see the water come out of the ground and most of the time it's fine but the last thing you want is to be 35 miles into a ride and feel that grumble in your stonach that means your guts are about to turn inside out. Your horse will be fine drinking out of any moving water source. I'd be careful about letting a horse drink out of a communal trough but sometimes you can't help it. I also don't like to give my horse all it will drink if the horse is hot. I prefer to pull them up and ride off when they still want to drink. Sometimes a horse will drink too much water and end up with a bellyache for a while. I try to avoid this. I've ridden pretty hard for 8 hours and not given my horse a drink because there was no drink to be had. The horse was a little uncomfortable but suffered no bad effects from it. I would offer water when given the chance but wouldn't worry about it.


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## Celeste

Beautiful mountain streams can be contaminated with giardia. It is worse on humans than it is on horses. 

My horses drink out of a creek on our farm and they are not dead.


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## Joe4d

not sure where 42 came from, I said a couple 12 mile loops, total of 24. I am an endurance rider and trainign for 50 and 100 mile loops. But to give you info ,
Take a typical walk/trot canter horse. The putz along trail ride walk pace at about 3 mph, a gaited horse will move out at 4 to 5, So your typical afternoon trail ride will be about 10 miles. Even an out of shape horse would be fine doing the 10 miles at a walk and getting water back at the trailer. 
While I imagine there are all kinds of bacteria and germs in naturally occurring surface water I have never heard of it being an issue. Community water troughs at your barn with multiple horses drinking out of it is far more likely to make your horse sick than a free flowing stream., Talk to your local vet tell them where you ride and get the recommended
shots.


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## gunslinger

If YOU are going to drink then get one of these:

Katadyn Hiker PRO Water Filter at REI.com

While I usually carry a couple of bottles of water, I keep a hiker pro on my saddle bags when riding where water might be an issue.


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## Joe4d

since this is a trail etiquette and Chumbawamba appears to be a new trail rider, I will point out a bit of water etiquette,
When you come to a water hole if there are other horses there drinking stop and wait your turn, even if your horse doesnt need water it is rude to pass or ride off while horses are still drinking. A horse in that group may need the water but get anxious and wanna leave if they see you race off. 
So stop, wait your turn, let your horse drink or not, move on a few feet out of the way till the other horses are done, then head on up the trail.


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## Chumbawumba

Wow thanks everyone for your feedback this is great.
 sorry Joe4d I think my 4 came before my 2 when I was typing ha!!!!!
Very much appreciated


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## Chumbawumba

Keninshorses, that is a really good point how do you know when you think they've drank enough water to protect them from over drinking???


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## Joe4d

over drinking ? never heard of this being an issue. basically when your horse quits drinking and starts playing or looking for weeds to eat. He's done. Be alert though around water holes on hot days, more than one horse decides its a good place to lay down or roll over.


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## Chumbawumba

Ha ha ha!!!!
I never heard that one before  you're just pulling my leg... rolling over !!!!


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## Skipsfirstspike

Joe is not pulling your leg! If you are in water, or even sand, and your horse has his head down and starts pawing, get him moving! An itchy or hot horse may very well try to roll!


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## QOS

Biscuit laid down on New Years Eve. It was hot that day and it had a long winter coat and was sweaty. He was "peanut rolling" with his head down low and then folded up and laid down. Thank God he didn't roll in my new saddle!! He has laid down in water before (this was BEFORE I bought him but I was with the lady that was riding him.) so yeah...they will lay down in water. He didn't roll but he laid down 3 different times in the water that day. His owner wasn't with us - and he wasn't very amused - it was his saddle!!


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## Celeste

My sister's horse laid down and rolled in the creek when she was riding him. She barely got off without getting hurt. The saddle got scratched; luckily the tree held up and did not break. If that horse put her head down, she got really nervous after that.


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## Chumbawumba

Eek..... Good to know thanks everyone


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## FlyGap

I have a gelding that tries to roll in mud puddles. We really have to give him heck to get him through one. The first ride we took him on we got to a huge puddle and he started to drop! Horses Knees buckled, husband screaming, I just laughed and hollered "Give em hell!" So YES be careful.


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## mildot

Joe4d said:


> since this is a trail etiquette and Chumbawamba appears to be a new trail rider, I will point out a bit of water etiquette,
> When you come to a water hole if there are other horses there drinking stop and wait your turn, even if your horse doesnt need water it is rude to pass or ride off while horses are still drinking. A horse in that group may need the water but get anxious and wanna leave if they see you race off.
> So stop, wait your turn, let your horse drink or not, move on a few feet out of the way till the other horses are done, then head on up the trail.


 
How is this any different from passing slower riders on the trail (something you've said you'd do without hesitation)? 

The horses you pass by have just as much chance of getting jiggy and anxious as those drinking.

IMO, it's every rider's responsibility to control their horse. If your horse won't stand when others come and go, then that's on you and not on everyone else.


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## COWCHICK77

I think he means if your riding with a group. Then you wait until your group/crew is ready.

It is bad etiquette to ride off and leave people at a gate or a river crossing whether it be trail riding or cowboying.


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## mildot

COWCHICK77 said:


> I think he means if your riding with a group. Then you wait until your group/crew is ready.


If that's what he meant, that's not what he wrote.



> When you come to a water hole if there are other horses there drinking


You come to a water hole and find others already there watering their horses.

I'm not waiting for them to be done. If my horse doesn't want water, we calmly keep going. If that causes a ruckus with other people's horses, well then they have more work to do with training.

No different than passing slower riders.


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## tinyliny

Joe4d said:


> since this is a trail etiquette and Chumbawamba appears to be a new trail rider, I will point out a bit of water etiquette,
> When you come to a water hole if there are other horses there drinking stop and wait your turn, even if your horse doesnt need water it is rude to pass or ride off while horses are still drinking. A horse in that group may need the water but get anxious and wanna leave if they see you race off.
> So stop, wait your turn, let your horse drink or not, move on a few feet out of the way till the other horses are done, then head on up the trail.


 
This just seems like being neighborly, to me. I would take the time waiting to chat with the other group. I suppose you could always ask them if they mind if you pass on by.


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## Joe4d

Thats because thats not what I meant. Passing on the trail is different than passing on a water hole, the horses need water as a health issue. Would be kinda rude to fly by horses drinking. But then again I do endurance riding as opposed to casual trail putzing along. Water and getting your's and other horses is critical. So as a form of etiquette, If I cam up on horses drinking I would pause let em drink, let my horse drink then move on.


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## Saranda

Today I learned another fact about horse riding etiquette. I was guiding a mid-experienced ride and really holding myself together to keep polite because of another rider just behind me and her comments. 

Almost all the way she was commenting the strides of my horse and how should I improve them, commenting the training of the mare she was given (the best of our barn and a really fine trail horse) and how she could improve her (being a rider with just 2 year experience on an incredibly calm and slow lesson horse), commenting on how the BO was doing a bad job in riding the horse herself (the BO was not with us), trying to lead the group in different trails than I went, just because she thought they'd be more fun and being generally a pain in the a** and very impolite. 

I find it quite inappropriate to act like this - guided trail rides are for fun, not trying to re-train (she was actually trying to "work" with her horse during the ride, while not being able to keep the distance and bumping in my horse's back in canter all the time) and criticize horses that are not yours, and for following the guide, not playing one themselves. 

It seems obvious, but apparently some people are unable to think of it.


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## Celeste

Saranda said:


> ride, while not being able to keep the distance ..... bumping in my horse's back in canter all the time ..........


 My mare would cross her horse's eyes if she cantered into her rear. The rider might try it again, but I don't think the horse would agree.


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## Saranda

My gelding kicked back once and I had to warn her we'd go the rest of the ride in walk only if she keeps cutting the distance. It was better later on, but not much, so she won't be let on this level trail rides in our barn any more until she gains more experience.


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## Joe4d

yeh just smile and wave and keep your mouth shut. Unsolicited advise on the trail NEVER EVER EVER has helped me, If I am having troubles with my horse leave me alone and let me work it out. If you are so inclined hang out with me at camp or back at the park lot,,, when the stress level is down and I am off the horse I will be more receptive and all ears to a more experienced rider. However leave me alone while I am in the saddle.
And please dont correct me with irrelevant crap. I dont care if my horses head isnt perfect, I dotn care about his set, I wouldnt know a proper lead from a in proper follow. I ride on a loose rein, control the speed and general direction and let the horse figure that stuff out. If you dont like it, dont look at it.
When I was starting out I would get all stressed out over things like that. Now I am getting better at ignoring it.


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## Nine

Saranda, congrats for holding your temper, and not snapping her neck like a glow stick! Why do people feel as if their opinions are the only right way? When they are often soooo far off the mark. How 'bout passing on good comments, like: I really like this horse's trot, or your horse is gorgeous, or the trails you picked are so pretty. I'm glad we got to see these trails. It is the people who are so insecure that they want to tear someone else down, to make themselves look good. It would be good if one of the other trail riders would just say "You sound like a blithering idiot." 
As you can see, it's hard for me to put up with drama and BS. I can bite my tongue with a strong effort only, when it comes to those kind of people. Again, you did a good job of ignoring her.
BTW, I really like your horse. Pretty. I'm a sucker for a nice bay.


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## Saranda

Thanks, Nine. And, before I found my boy, I would have never thought that I'd buy a bay. Love from first sight.  

It was really hard for me to keep calm and polite, but I didn't want to go down to her level and ruin the ride for the rest of the group. It would have been unprofessional and the lady would have had another thing to nag about. Nobody needs that, lol. 

A bit of offtopic, but I still had my little revenge. This type of ride includes some runs of fast canter. The lady had boasted how she likes fast cantering, although the mare she had learned riding on and had ridden most of the time is not the fastest one. A plodder, actually. The mare she had been given for the trail ride, however, is a speed devil, if given the opportunity, but controllable and such. I was aware that the rest of the group would be able and safe to keep up, so, when we came to a place where it was possible, I showed them one pleasant hell of speed. Everybody enjoyed themselves very much. 

Especially because our damsel in distress now kept silent until the end of the ride and did not repeat her boasting about experience in speed riding.


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## Boggart

I once attended to a trail riding. That was amazing. (got a few branches in the face)


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## AnitaAnne

I don't know if this is an etiquette question or not, but with all the comments on hunting it might be ok...

Do many people carry a gun while riding, and if so what would they recommend. It is very common here to have at least one in the group packing...


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## Boggart

I don't know what you prefer, really. If you really want to carry a firearm, a carabine is an excellent choice (shortened version of a rifle) or a six shooter revolver. I'm sure they sell those to civilians. 

For carabines, you need something that can be maneuvered with ease and to be able to reload it fast. A lever action carabine is the best choice for a rider. They also shoot small caliber ammunition so "peas" won't be a problem to find. You can also use them to shoot coyotes or snakes. 
It looks like this:









With the pistols, things are pretty much straightforward. Not much to say about them.


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## AnitaAnne

Well, I'm not worried about coyotes or bears, but we do have rattle snakes. 

I do like that carabine, but I haven't shot a rifle in a while. I would rather something more hidden, for the two-legged snakes. A lightweight pistol is more what I wanted, need to train the horse to it too, he doesn't know much.


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## Elky

I pack a lever rifle like pictured in a large caliber plus either a pistol or revolver on just about every trail ride.


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## Darrin

AnitaAnne said:


> Well, I'm not worried about coyotes or bears, but we do have rattle snakes.
> 
> I do like that carabine, but I haven't shot a rifle in a while. I would rather something more hidden, for the two-legged snakes. A lightweight pistol is more what I wanted, need to train the horse to it too, he doesn't know much.


The Judge by Taurus would cover your needs. It handles 410 shotgun shells and .45 colt. Load a couple chambers up with each and you'll be protected from snakes of all kinds. Here's an article on them.

Taurus Judge perfect for self-defense - North Carolina Sportsman


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## Tazmanian Devil

AnitaAnne said:


> Well, I'm not worried about coyotes or bears, but we do have rattle snakes.
> 
> I do like that carabine, but I haven't shot a rifle in a while. I would rather something more hidden, for the two-legged snakes. A lightweight pistol is more what I wanted, need to train the horse to it too, he doesn't know much.



If you are looking for something small, Bond makes a nice derringer. What's nice is that you can load it with snake-shot... basically a .45cal barrel and instead of a bullet, you have a shotgun spray. About as small a gun as you can get, and it is much easier to hit a snake when you have a spread of shot coming out.

(Just realized the Taurus Judge is a similar handgun. However, the bond looks like it is quite a bit smaller. From what I have heard, Bond is a more reliable piece of equipment than Taurus.)


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## AnitaAnne

Darrin said:


> The Judge by Taurus would cover your needs. It handles 410 shotgun shells and .45 colt. Load a couple chambers up with each and you'll be protected from snakes of all kinds. Here's an article on them.
> 
> Taurus Judge perfect for self-defense - North Carolina Sportsman


I read the article - I laughed hard when it said a lot of folks in the Deep South buy these for snakes! I am in the Deep South...

It sounds perfect for my needs, I have a friend works at a gun store, I will see if he has a "Judge" there. I think it is important to have one to carry with me, not leave on the horse, just in case we get separated. 

I plan to ride out on my own a lot, and I think having my own "Judge" (love that name) around will remind some snakes to mind their manners. LOL


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## AnitaAnne

Tazmanian Devil said:


> If you are looking for something small, Bond makes a nice derringer. What's nice is that you can load it with snake-shot... basically a .45cal barrel and instead of a bullet, you have a shotgun spray. About as small a gun as you can get, and it is much easier to hit a snake when you have a spread of shot coming out.
> 
> (Just realized the Taurus Judge is a similar handgun. However, the bond looks like it is quite a bit smaller. From what I have heard, Bond is a more reliable piece of equipment than Taurus.)


Thanks, if the "Judge" is too big for me, I will look for the Bond...I need to keep it on me so weight is important too!


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## BlooBabe

I haven't read the whole post yet but if it hasn't been said. Most times when I trail ride I'm the leader or second horse on the trail, unless I'm out for fun with people and a leader I trust. From that point I understand how important it is to know ever rider's ability before I start a trail. I always encourage people to tell me if they've got concerns or requests and to let me know what they are comfortable with and capable of doing judgement free so the trail can be planned accordingly. I've had several instances where a rider over estimated their ability and ended up ruining the trail for everyone else because I refuse to leave a rider behind and we cut it short to go back with them, or not telling me something that I should have known that resulted in many people getting injured. I also suggest you know the level of trail you're going on, I have had people complain that I'm moving too slow because I'm being considerate to those who haven't been on the trail before, or want to take in the sights rather then race by everything. I'm more likely to slow a trail down for a single rider than speed up for many. 

Telling the trail guide and the people around you of ANY medical conditions is also a must. I'm epileptic so I let riders know that we may have to stop and rest if I feel a fit coming on, some rides involve diabetics, arthritis, epilepsy, or even certain allergies so if everyone is aware then there will always be someone to help if that rider needs it. 
The two lead horses are always the 'guards' if we're crossing a main road, dirt road, or water way one horse on either side making a clear safe path to hold off any traffic or to show the safest path through in the case of water. When everyone has crossed they wait on the other side and wait for the guards to take the lead again. 
Make sure to have experienced riders throughout the group with walkie talkies or within calling distance so if someone in the back needs to stop I know not to keep going and there is no unneeded yelling in case it spooks a horse.
Let people know about medical conditions
Never be afraid to let the leader know what you can and can't do, they will usually work with you to make sure you enjoy the ride
Be prepared to help someone in crisis, I can't count how many times I've helped a rider or needed help because of my medical condition
Dress accordingly, even if there's a minimal chance of rain it doesn't hurt to bring a rain coat 
Most of all just enjoy the ride, if you're high strung and can't enjoy the trail and sights you'll ruin it for everyone.


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## canterburyhorsetrailrider

Having read quite a few posts on this subject, it seem to me that you folks ride with far too many others to enjoy your outing..

Personally I like to ride with a small group only and with riders we all know as far as poss...

Dont go riding in large groups with inexperienced horses, they learn right or wrong from other horses playing up and next you have similar problems.

The poor old horse is often out of its comfort zone in these situations and is only *defending itself* in these scary (to the horse) situations.

Seek and go with quiet experienced riders and horses to teach your horse the ins and out of trail riding, then, if you must.. go in large groups.

We have an annual cavalcade ride in various locations once a year and it nothing to have 70 to 100 riders all in a group... what fun is that..? half the horses are playing up.. half the riders are verbally or under their breath abusing others..

This is not what getting out on a horse is about..

Personally I wont take anyone into the mountains who I dont know, I have been caught before with folks who depend heavily and need spoon feeding constantly.. I go to enjoy, and create memories and have fun with the small group we associate with..

Get to know other riders who you are comfortable with and ride with them..!
Lets get the *pleasure* back into our recreation....!


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## muumi

So I will just ask this here instead of starting a new thread, and apologies; I haven't read this whole thread, just a few pages. So maybe there answer is already here.

But if you will bear with me, my question is: what do you do when you're at a swift canter out on a trail, and you come across another rider? Keep on going no matter what? Someone did this to me last night, and I was furious.... I always slow down to a walk, if I'm not already walking, acknowledge/greet the other rider, and at a sensible distance pick up my previous gait. You just never know how a stranger's horse may react to you zooming past it at close quarters... right? Am I too sensitive?


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## canterburyhorsetrailrider

muumi said:


> So I will just ask this here instead of starting a new thread, and apologies; I haven't read this whole thread, just a few pages. So maybe there answer is already here.
> 
> But if you will bear with me, my question is: what do you do when you're at a swift canter out on a trail, and you come across another rider? Keep on going no matter what? Someone did this to me last night, and I was furious.... I always slow down to a walk, if I'm not already walking, acknowledge/greet the other rider, and at a sensible distance pick up my previous gait. You just never know how a stranger's horse may react to you zooming past it at close quarters... right? Am I too sensitive?


Good on you... do unto others as you hopefully would have them do unto you..!

Manners are something most of us have and enjoy, unfortunately, not everyone seems to posses them..


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## muumi

canterburyhorsetrailrider said:


> Good on you... do unto others as you hopefully would have them do unto you..!
> 
> Manners are something most of us have and enjoy, unfortunately, not everyone seems to posses them..


Thanks for your reply... I'm not trying to seem goody-two-shoes, I was just furious, because this person's actions sent my arab spooking and reeling, and pretty much made her feel like a bit of a wreck for a bit, because in her mind, I guess, she was feeling a little OMG about walking in the direction that another horse had just appeared to be fleeing from.

I was just wondering whether it was one of those situations where I'm deluded, and in the other rider's mind, she did nothing wrong, I should be able to control my horse better.


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## canterburyhorsetrailrider

muumi said:


> Thanks for your reply... I'm not trying to seem goody-two-shoes, I was just furious, because this person's actions sent my arab spooking and reeling, and pretty much made her feel like a bit of a wreck for a bit, because in her mind, I guess, she was feeling a little OMG about walking in the direction that another horse had just appeared to be fleeing from.
> 
> I was just wondering whether it was one of those situations where I'm deluded, and in the other rider's mind, she did nothing wrong, I should be able to control my horse better.


No.. the situation was... the other rider not having the common manners to look after others..

Its just selfish... her thinking..I am ok Jack..stuff you..!

In this modern world we seem to come across these people more and more...

This is one reason I load up a horse and head into the mountains..... love the peace and just being able to talk to my horse and ask him to solve the problems of this world.... he nods his head..(wink) sure Dad.. I will look after you..lol


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## Darrin

muumi said:


> Thanks for your reply... I'm not trying to seem goody-two-shoes, I was just furious, because this person's actions sent my arab spooking and reeling, and pretty much made her feel like a bit of a wreck for a bit, because in her mind, I guess, she was feeling a little OMG about walking in the direction that another horse had just appeared to be fleeing from.
> 
> I was just wondering whether it was one of those situations where I'm deluded, and in the other rider's mind, she did nothing wrong, I should be able to control my horse better.


The polite thing to do is slow down when passing. But you have to see the other side too. Many riders honestly believe a horse should be able to take something like a horse speeding by going in the other direction, if they can't then they shouldn't be there. In other words, it's your fault your horse acted up over them passing at speed and not their fault. To me it's as valid an argument as being polite and slowing down. 

Yes I've been on the recieving end of this situation when training young horses. I didn't blame the other rider, I used the situation as a training session instead.


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## bsms

Guess some of us have to TRAIN our horses for trail riding, which means they aren't all Ol' Bombproof! I'd be ****ED if someone came riding like a bat outta hell and passed me in either direction without slowing down - assuming the horse wasn't bolting. All of my horses would consider that cause for alarm. And there is about a 50% chance my mare would give the racing horse a face full of hooves.

Of course, that would be the other rider's fault for not having a better trained horse...:-x

Maybe it is where I come from. Most trails here can barely hold two horses side-by-side, and are surrounded by cactus. But the natural instinct of a horse seeing another horse 'fleeing' is to assume there is something chasing it. Heck, to date at least, all the dirt bike riders I've met have had more sense than that!


----------



## muumi

bsms said:


> Guess some of us have to TRAIN our horses for trail riding, which means they aren't all Ol' Bombproof!


EXACTLY!

My horse is young, being trained, and gaining experience and miles. 4-going-on-5. Every single well-trained horse has been here to get to where they are now. However she is extremely solid and calm, and usually won't even offer to shy at anything, so this must have freaked her out Big Time. I think she really thought something was hunting that horse down!

But what if I was a kid, or way more inexperienced or nervous, or rode a way more nervous horse? This person has no way of knowing. And even though its not her responsibility to take care of me and my horse, I would really like to think that riders have each others backs, so to speak. We ALL know how quickly ANY horse can do something stupid, so why cause each other unnecessary stress? She didn't even look back to check if I was ok, even though she saw my horse reacting to hers. What if I had taken a bad fall?


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## muumi

muumi said:


> But what if I was a kid, or way more inexperienced or nervous, or rode a way more nervous horse? This person has no way of knowing. And even though its not her responsibility to take care of me and my horse, I would really like to think that riders have each others backs, so to speak. We ALL know how quickly ANY horse can do something stupid, so why cause each other unnecessary stress? She didn't even look back to check if I was ok, even though she saw my horse reacting to hers. What if I had taken a bad fall?


I'm going to play devil's advocate on my own post, and say that many people would think that inexperienced riders or children shouldn't be out of arenas unsupervised. This is true, and shouldn't form part of my argument in fact. Oh well. At least it was a learning experience for my horse... next time she will hopefully just shrug her shoulders and say 'eh'.


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## bsms

It is impossible to teach a horse to be a trail horse by riding in an arena. There is no option for training a horse apart from going out and hitting the trails. And it is NORMAL for a horse to consider a running horse as cause for alarm.

If one does a worst case analysis, then someone slowing down, worst case, loses about 60 seconds of pleasure. But if it results in the other horse spooking, then the worst case is a dead rider. Those are not equal outcomes, so both sides are not equal in the argument.

In 7 years of jogging or riding, I've seen another horse in the area I ride 2 times. Both times, the horse was walking. How in the heck would I train my horse to accept another horse running down the trail as normal, when it is likely they will NEVER see such a thing? If they ever do, it will almost certainly be their first time. And NORMAL horse instinct would be to become alarmed...so yeah, I'd be ****ed at the other rider.


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## muumi

Sorry for triple posting, my mind is elsewhere.

I think what got to me wasn't my horse's reaction, because it probably wasnt even that bad. Or rather, it defintely wasn't that bad. She spooked, and then seemed on edge for a couple minutes, no big deal.

I just thought it was a kind of unspoken rule to slow down to pass, because that's what everyone seems to do. I can't remember having anyone else NOT slow down, or myself NOT slowing down for someone else, which is why this incident got on my nerves.


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## Darrin

muumi said:


> Sorry for triple posting, my mind is elsewhere.
> 
> I think what got to me wasn't my horse's reaction, because it probably wasnt even that bad. Or rather, it defintely wasn't that bad. She spooked, and then seemed on edge for a couple minutes, no big deal.
> 
> I just thought it was a kind of unspoken rule to slow down to pass, because that's what everyone seems to do. I can't remember having anyone else NOT slow down, or myself NOT slowing down for someone else, which is why this incident got on my nerves.


It is an unwritten rule and common sense isn't all that common. To many people only care about #1 and their own pleasures. They'll only give you a thought if you force yourself on their experience, otherwise you don't even exist. I've found it's mostly younger people with this attitude while older people are more considerate. I think it's more of a generational thing.


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## Joe4d

the passing issue is all about context. Really it depends on the situation and where you are riding. If I am out at the park on trails with mixed riders, Im gonna match their speed, give em a verbal notice, "passing on the left" and generally go by at barely a gear faster than they are moving, get out in front a ways and continue on. If I am walking along talking with a group I'll ask if they "have your horse"? Ok see ya later and speed on up.

Even in the above situations people still have a hissy fit. But at least I tried. These are the type of people that want the entire world to walk on eggshells because they are on a horse. Um sorry bout that, your horse your problem.

On an endurance event pretty much all you will get and all that is expected is a "Passing on the left" called out. with no break in speed.


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## Celeste

Bolting down past somebody like you just robbed a bank is rude. Joe, I don't mean you. You said that you give fair warning.

I had a young girl that ran up my horse's rear and then once and then actually ran into the back side of my horse. If I had been on the horse I am riding now, she would have kicked the devil out of that horse. My sweet older horse didn't kick, but she was upset for the rest of the ride and I don't blame her.


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## bsms

I'm trying hard to expand my mare's horizons in pieces small enough for her to chew and digest. There is no way I'd take her right now to a popular trail. That would be rude of ME. Other riders ought to be able to have fun, too!

MUTUAL courtesy and respect. I don't want my horse to rob others of their enjoyment. In return, I'd like others - particularly horse owners - to cut me a little slack while training my mare. If nothing else, keep your eyes open. If another horse is getting scared, and your activities may be causing it, help a fellow horse-lover out! Most of the dirt bike riders I've met have done that much...:?


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## muumi

Joe4d said:


> the passing issue is all about context. Really it depends on the situation and where you are riding. If I am out at the park on trails with mixed riders, Im gonna match their speed, give em a verbal notice, "passing on the left" and generally go by at barely a gear faster than they are moving, get out in front a ways and continue on. If I am walking along talking with a group I'll ask if they "have your horse"? Ok see ya later and speed on up.
> 
> Even in the above situations people still have a hissy fit. But at least I tried. These are the type of people that want the entire world to walk on eggshells because they are on a horse. Um sorry bout that, your horse your problem.
> 
> On an endurance event pretty much all you will get and all that is expected is a "Passing on the left" called out. with no break in speed.


What you are describing sounds perfectly polite to me, but this person could plain as day see my horse getting upset as she approached... but did not call out to me, acknowledge me or my horse, slow down or do ANYTHING really, except spurring on her horse as she passed with a kick and a 'come ON!'. I was trying to catch her eye to try to communicate to her, but she ignored me. And I didn't just want to shout at or after her, even though I felt like doing just that.

If she didn't want to break stride for whatever reason, she could have just called out to me to check if my horse was fine. I would appreciate her just acknowledging my existence.


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## ilovepie32

I wish my fiance would read this post. He enjoys galloping off on the trails on his horse, which would be fine if he would warn me before leaing my horse scared, or blowing past my horse making him want to run. Dusty is very competitive, and he hates to see other horses go faster than him, so when I trot down the trails, my fiance lopes his horse past Dusty to irritate him. He knows that Dusty will be difficult and speed up to be ahead. I get onto him for never thinking about how his actions affect other people.. He obviously doesn't care.


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## BlooBabe

ilovepie32 said:


> I wish my fiance would read this post. He enjoys galloping off on the trails on his horse, which would be fine if he would warn me before leaing my horse scared, or blowing past my horse making him want to run. Dusty is very competitive, and he hates to see other horses go faster than him, so when I trot down the trails, my fiance lopes his horse past Dusty to irritate him. He knows that Dusty will be difficult and speed up to be ahead. I get onto him for never thinking about how his actions affect other people.. He obviously doesn't care.



All it takes is one bad fall from his 'game' for you to get hurt beyond repair. He may think it's fun but there are serious repercussions to his actions and he should know better than to scare or egg your horse on.


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## Celeste

ilovepie32 said:


> I wish my fiance would read this post. He enjoys galloping off on the trails on his horse, which would be fine if he would warn me before leaing my horse scared, or blowing past my horse making him want to run. Dusty is very competitive, and he hates to see other horses go faster than him, so when I trot down the trails, my fiance lopes his horse past Dusty to irritate him. He knows that Dusty will be difficult and speed up to be ahead. I get onto him for never thinking about how his actions affect other people.. He obviously doesn't care.


You might want to consider trading the boyfriend you have in for a new model.


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## calicokatt

ilovepie32 said:


> I wish my fiance would read this post. He enjoys galloping off on the trails on his horse, which would be fine if he would warn me before leaing my horse scared, or blowing past my horse making him want to run. Dusty is very competitive, and he hates to see other horses go faster than him, so when I trot down the trails, my fiance lopes his horse past Dusty to irritate him. He knows that Dusty will be difficult and speed up to be ahead. I get onto him for never thinking about how his actions affect other people.. He obviously doesn't care.


Not to open a can of worms, but I would NOT be with someone who cared so little about my safety that they would put me in jeopardy, even after I told him that what he was doing could get me seriously injured or killed.


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## Joe4d

yeh sounds like a rude arrogant jerk, might be a wake up call for how hes gonna act in other situations. To many decent guys in the world to put up with a jerk.


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## QOS

Wow...he sounds very immature. :shock: Hope you are never hurt by his stunts. If my husband did that to me he would be down the road kicking beer cans and picking buttercups. Well, maybe not...it would be hard to kick a beer can with a broke leg or pick buttercups with a broken hand. :hide:


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## ilovepie32

I think I fixed the problem. Yesterday we went trail riding. He was galloping by like usual, and I let my horse run. I've never let him run full speed because he usually throws in a buck or two. But not this time. Dusty flew past my fiancé and his horse like they were turtles. His horse did NOT like that, so when he pulled her back she wouldn't stop. She was being difficult the rest of our ride, and it irritated him. Normally I wouldn't upset his horse like that, but now he knows how my horse feels and acts when he does that to him. The best part was HE apologized for that day because he knew why I did it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Darrin

Sounds like he might of learned a lesson!


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## Celeste

I would still be really slow about getting married. He may be hard to retrain, though it does sound like you are making progress. 
And get a prenup..........


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## ilovepie32

Celeste said:


> I would still be really slow about getting married. He may be hard to retrain, though it does sound like you are making progress.
> And get a prenup..........


Oh we're taking it very slow. We won't get married for a good two years at least. We're starting to learn a lot more about each other through planning a future together. A lot of feelings come out when you're picking a home that we'll build, and one of us doesn't like it. But I have to say, he s a calm person. If anyone blows up out of anger, it's me. He really is a caring person, also. I don't mean to put him off as a bad person. If he was, I wouldn't marry him. Riding horses is just that one case where I guess he doesn't understand that I am only 140 pounds of muscle and fat on top of a 1200 pound powerhouse. I think that he feels like I can handle my horse, and I can. But freak accidents do happen. I'm just more aware of that than he is. We broke down a major wall the other day and had a talk about how Dusty is sensitive about certain things, and he can't tell me when hes about to blow his lid. So I think that we have an understanding about trail rules now.


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## Celeste

I suppose it could be that he thought it was more along the lines of tickling your foot or calling you a silly name. Men are hard to train................


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## canterburyhorsetrailrider

Celeste said:


> I suppose it could be that he thought it was more along the lines of tickling your foot or calling you a silly name. Men are hard to train................


Smiles... and some of us are absolute ANGELS...(wink)

hehehe,, I could'nt help but add my five cents worth...... lol


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## Jessahorselover

My pet peeve is, riders behind me galloping past me without letting me know their coming.


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## qh trail rider

I am new to this forum and haven't read through all of the past posts in this thread to know if this particular behavior has been addressed previously or not. My husband and I recently took a trip to The Big South Fork area in TN. First let me tell you that my husband and I are experienced riders and have been trail riding for many years. We are both in our mid 50's. We ride quarter horses and enjoy taking our time and so to speak, stopping to smell the roses and enjoying the scenery along the trails. The horses that we took on our trip to BSF are 9 and 10 years old and have logged many miles on the trails. Now, second let me add, I have nothing against riders of gaited horses. If they chose to gait down the trail at a high rate of speed, and that is what they enjoy, I am fine with that. What I am not fine with, is the lack of courtesy and common sense that we recently encountered when we met a large group of riders going in the opposite direction of us. We were riding on a trail that was wide enough for us to pass each other, but there was not a good place for us to step off of the trail. We heard these other riders coming before we could see them, so we had stopped to let them get around us. The two riders who were in the lead were traveling at a fast gait. It sounded like maybe they were racing each other. They came around a curve in the trail and could clearly see us, The two lead riders were probably in their mid to late 20's. The young man did slow down slightly, but the young lady looked like she was trying to catch up with him, so made no effort to slow down or give us time to find a place to step off of the trail. My horse thought she was being charged and her "flight instinct" kicked in gear. She started backing up and then as the young woman was racing past us, my horse jumped sideways and was trying to turn around. I managed to stay in the saddle, but it wasn't easy. This made me very angry. I don't understand why some riders act as if they own the trail and show no regard for the safety of others. The remainder of this large group of maybe a dozen riders did slow down, but not one person offered an apology for the rude behavior of the two lead riders. Third, let me add that this was the only time during our week of trail riding that we had any problems. The other riders that we met along the way were friendly and respectful.


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## Darrin

Keep in mind that while rude, at that age they may be inexperienced trail riders. Lets hope that someone in the group had a talk with them. It also could be, with that age group, it's more about "me" and a talk will do no good.

Most the trail bike riders I've had problems with are in that age range. Younger and older riders tend to be much more considerate.


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## QOS

Welcome QHTrailRider. Welcome to the forum and so glad you weren't hurt. Some folks are just plain old rude, some are just clueless and were never taught trail etiquette. Hopefully, someone in their group gave them a heads up later.


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## luvbeach

Thanks for posting this. As a newbie to the horse world, I appreciate any help and advice I can get.


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## loveduffy

welcome to the forum this is some thing that happen from time to time people need to learn when it happens to them then they will learn that that is not funny


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## QHLove

Great post Vida! A lot of this is common sense and basic manners but no matter what there's going to be the one person who doesn't have the common sense, experience, or politeness and need it all in black and white. It is awesome that you found this and I would have LOVED to have something like this when I first got into trail riding!


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## Rokmc

when hacking look around how many horse are hanging around nrarby.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SRriding

Another one I found out the hard way, if your guides start drinking, dont go!! I was on a ride and the guides were so drunk that they got us lost, we had several people who needed assistance, and they were so drunk they couldn't even sit on their own horses!! We paid good money for that guided ride and it ended up one of the riders had to call 911 to get us out of there, thank goodness he got service.


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## Joe4d

What a bunch of jerks, I hate trail ride drinkers that dont share....


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## SeemsLegit

What I have problems with;
- People allowing their horses to eat, thus holding up the entire group as they fight for the animal's head once they finally realize what's going on. There's nothing that gets me angrier, I swear. I always stay very alert for this and other reasons, and am quick to correct the behavior. Some people apparently don't think the same way. 

- When riders that cannot keep up with the group are placed near the front, or halfway through the line. If we're ready to canter and their horse is keen on staying at a trot, it ruins the experience for any of the people behind said slow-poke. 

- People that overestimate their riding abilities, and are on mounts they cannot control. This floors me. I never say anything as I'm a polite person, but this is certainly something that irks me. Be willing to accept your weaknesses and please, for the riders with you, don't take out a horse above your level. 

Just a few things that tick me off. C:


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## iRide Ponies

I had my first ever experience with a POLITE motorbikes the other day. Every other biker I have ever come across on the trail or on the beach (and I ride on the trail and beach allot, seeing an average of 3 bikes per ride) has ignored as and powered on past. My horse ignores them. However, The other day I was leading my horse up a hill at the end of the ride, when a bike, coming the other way saw us, slowed right down, cut the engine and rolled on past. I smiled and waved, and my horse stared at the bike with giant bug eyes, thinking, 'Why the heck doesn't that bike have an engine?'

Of course, the second they were past they gunned forward and revved off, causing my mare to jump slightly. Turns out shes not used to polite bikers, but hey! At least the rider tried.


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## Corporal

**Corporal applauds bc Corporal cannot add ANYTHING to this**


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## saddleonline2

*Back to basics...*

This is a great thread, so I thought I'd chime in. No matter how long we've all been riding, I think it's important to remember the basics when it comes to good manners and safety on the trails. 
Here's an excerpt from one of Maggie's online articles that sums it all up. She says: 
"Respect other equestrians, hikers or bikers that you pass. If your horse kicks or bites, tie a ribbon on its tail as a warning to others to keep their distance. Remember to close any gates you open and hold them open if others are behind you. Do not pass other riders at a gallop, as many horses become overly excited. Be polite with your riding distance. If riding with others, allow for ample breathing room in between."


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## womack29

Great post! I had always had show horses but changed pace and started trail riding about 5 yrs ago. I remember trying to learn all I could about how to "behave" when riding with others. I also always yield to others on the trail because I know my horse.


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## RegularJoe

Not pointing at any posts in particular, but I've seen a lot of "if you or your horse can't <X> then you shouldn't <Y>" sort of sentiments expressed. 

If you're thinking that way, you're going to be mighty lonely on the trail in a few years, because everyone who ever did anything had to do it the first time once, and those of us still learning don't know what we don't know. 

We can't all start with your experience. You didn't start with it either.


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## STT GUY

Searched this thread and didn't see anything about muddy trails.


My wife and I are avid equestrians and mountain bikers so we get to see "both sides" of some trail use issues.

Riding muddy multi-use trails ruins the trail for other users, hikers and especially mountain bikers. Good trail stewards and courteous riders should try to avoid riding trails when damage will occur. Horses are very hard on soft/muddy trails and a couple of riders can damage a trail severely. 

When encountering mountain bikers on trails, it is unreasonable to expect them to step far off the trail to the downside. As a cyclist I am not going to step off to the downside and place my HEAD at the perfect level for a horse to kick it. I will step off to the upside and let the horse/rider work it out. 

Don't expect or ask me to take my helmet off or backpack off because it spooks your horse. If you and your horse are unable to adequately and safely cope with hikers and cyclists when encountering them then stay off public multi-use trails until your skill and/or your horses demeanor allow you to effectively manage such encounters safely. 

Most of all, TALK TO ME if I am a cyclist or hiker. When we are on our horses we let mountain bikers know exactly what to do. Example..."Hi, if you pull over to riders right and stand we'll go right by you on your left, is that good for you?"


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## egrogan

STT GUY said:


> Riding muddy multi-use trails ruins the trail for other users, hikers and especially mountain bikers. Good trail stewards and courteous riders should try to avoid riding trails when damage will occur. Horses are very hard on soft/muddy trails and a couple of riders can damage a trail severely.


I'm glad you posted this, I cringed a bit this weekend when I realized that I was going through some pretty sloppy footing on our barn neighbor's land and felt badly about churning up the mud. We're in that weird freeze-thaw-freeze cycle that comes at the beginning and end of winter, and I didn't realize how much mud there was going to be on one part of the trail. I also noticed that a part of his side yard that we are authorized to ride on was pretty squishy too- we didn't actually tear up the grass, but I felt bad hearing my horse sinking down into it. It's tough, because sometimes once you're in to a muddy part you didn't expect, there's really not anything you can do except ride through- and in my case, I had to ride back through it to get home because we ride a big loop. I will have to be more careful about it though as the temps are hovering above freezing- the last thing I would want to do is take advantage of this neighbor's generosity and jeopardize our chance to ride there!


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## AnitaAnne

It has always been standard when riding to pass on the left; left shoulder to left shoulder. Same as vehicles on roads, so this should not be an issue for anyone, but just in case, I always call out "passing on left" esp on multi-use trails when I meet a biker. So far have never seen runners on the mountain trails we ride, but it could happen I guess.

As far as muddy trails go, I don't try to ride on muddy trails on purpose, because it could be dangerous on the mountain trails, however, we have run into muddy spots, and sometimes they can't be avoided. 

The trails I ride on used to be horse only, then at some point the bikers wanted to ride them, so they became multi-use. Now the water crosssings are all gone, covered with bridges and culverts, and stone keeps showing up on more and more of the trails. 

This is not a benefit for the horses, and honestly, I don't understand why the trails changed to multi-use. There are plently of walking trails that could have been opened up to bikers, and a whole other mountain range with bike trails, so it is a bit hard to see the horse trails, when those are the only ones, be taken over by bikers. 

Not to mention all the forest roads that the bikers can use. 

Nothing personal against bikers, but horses never seem to be allowed on bike trails, so why do they have to be on the few we have? 

Just my two cents.


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## STT GUY

AnitaAnne said:


> It has always been standard when riding to pass on the left; left shoulder to left shoulder. Same as vehicles on roads, so this should not be an issue for anyone, but just in case, I always call out "passing on left" esp on multi-use trails when I meet a biker. So far have never seen runners on the mountain trails we ride, but it could happen I guess.
> 
> As far as muddy trails go, I don't try to ride on muddy trails on purpose, because it could be dangerous on the mountain trails, however, we have run into muddy spots, and sometimes they can't be avoided.
> 
> The trails I ride on used to be horse only, then at some point the bikers wanted to ride them, so they became multi-use. Now the water crosssings are all gone, covered with bridges and culverts, and stone keeps showing up on more and more of the trails.
> 
> This is not a benefit for the horses, and honestly, I don't understand why the trails changed to multi-use. There are plently of walking trails that could have been opened up to bikers, and a whole other mountain range with bike trails, so it is a bit hard to see the horse trails, when those are the only ones, be taken over by bikers.
> 
> Not to mention all the forest roads that the bikers can use.
> 
> Nothing personal against bikers, but horses never seem to be allowed on bike trails, so why do they have to be on the few we have?
> 
> Just my two cents.


 
I will try to answer your questions as best I can. FWIW, the majority of our trails are multi-use, but we have a unwritten agreement that certain ones are horse centric, usually sandy trails or trails with not much "flow" so these are nice for horses and not so much for bikes.

Bike centric trails tend to have more slickrock around here and are close to cliff edges or mesa edges.

We do have a couple bikes only and horses only trails systems and that's nice.

The Back Country horsemen here in SW Utah have built less than five miles of trail (and that's being VERY generous) in the last ten years while the mountain biking community has built (and PAID for) well over 100 in just the last five. Also, when trail maintenance days take place, they are nearly void of equestrian rider volunteers. Don't know why that is..just that it is. 

If I were you, I would reach out to the mountain biker community and not just tell them what you prefer to see, but rather show up with a bunch of equestrian volunteers on trail maintenance days and help. We don't have much in the way of water crossings here in SW Utah, but up in Sun Valley, ID where we go in July and August, the stream crossings are preserved and bridges built as alternate routes for those not wishing to get wet or use during high water times. I like that a lot.


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## Burgundian Mercenary

xxBarry Godden said:


> PS It is not mandatory to ride the horse on the left hand side of the road.


Actually it is, according to Section 53 of the Highway code:

*"53*

Before riding off or turning, look behind you to make sure it is safe, then give a clear arm signal. When riding on the road you should


keep to the left
keep both hands on the reins unless you are signalling
keep both feet in the stirrups
not carry another person
not carry anything which might affect your balance or get tangled up with the reins
keep a horse you are leading to your left
move in the direction of the traffic flow in a one-way street
never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends."
It would also be pretty dangerous not to, when all other traffic is on the left. This is especially important on narrow country lanes. I sometimes used to ride with someone who insisted on riding on the right-hand side of the road on quiet lanes with hedges both sides and blind bends, until I pointed out to him that if a car came the other way, the first the driver would see of him was when he & his horse landed on the car bonnet.


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## AnitaAnne

on RFT Goodnight did a show on trail riding etiquette and safety as well as how to keep up with gaited horses!

I missed the first 10 minutes, but will post info on the rest. 

Riding with gaited horse, she had the gaited horse go ahead, then turn around and get behind, then repeat. Other option was to let faster horse get ahead, then turn a face the oncoming group, and join back in when they catch up. She does not recommend holding back the faster horse, as that will make them anxious.

She wants all the horses to ride near each other, without crowding. The group needs to stick together, no going off from the group, and do not allow slower horses to fall behind.

She also says the group riding needs to pick a leader to make decisions on when to go faster, how difficult the trail, etc. The leader needs to make sure the whole group is willing to ride at faster speeds first, and not go at faster speeds if everyone doesn't agree.

She also says to have the leader call out before going at faster speeds, ex we are going to trot now, wait until everyone says ok before doing it. 

She doesn't allow the horses to socialize at all, not even touch noses. 

Wants everyone to have horses that are well behaved and don't spook. Doesn't allow horses thaat the rider has difficulty controlling

For horses that are nervous and anxious and have difficulty settling down, take then out on the trail with a very experienced, very calm horse and make the nervous one follow the calm one.


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## rideprosperously

I am surprised that nobody added to this etiquette thread for SOOO LONG! I wanna know if there's a "left shoulder to left shoulder" kind of unwritten rule on the trail. Thanks. Oh and btw:



Qtswede said:


> and my personal pet peeve:
> DO NOT hang back so you can gallop up on the rest of the group. It's dangerous and incredibly rude.
> Usually a problem with younger riders.


I was tempted to do that in private 1-1 hacks with only the instructor ahead of me. I know it's being naughty, in the end I didn't have the guts to hang back and gallop; but I did overtake instructors especially on open ground because the horse and I both felt the need for speed lol~

:gallop:


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## inspirehope

Thank you for posting this. I am new to trail riding and was not aware of some of these points of etiquette. This may be a stupid questions, but I would appreciate if you could clarify something for me. When you say "When you encounter a short bridge on the trail, walk the horses across one at a time." Do you mean ride the horse at a walk pace or do you mean, get off the horse and lead him across at a walk?


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## Celeste

I would ride the horses if they will go. There is no reason that a horse shouldn't carry you across a bridge. Now if my horse only would listen.................


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## elkdog

I read the original post and a few of the pages in between but not all of them. Poor flatlanders! The people I ride with are experienced outdoorsmen and women. Each others safety is paramount, with the horses well being a close second. We go for days on end and never run into other people. With the exception of some outfitter babysitting some cityiots. Sometimes we stop and make coffee with them because face it, we're tired of the people we've been with for the last week and a little new conversation is welcome. I read stories about mountain bikers and motorcycles, none of them in the Frank Church. The trail users we encounter know nothing about trail etiquette. Bears, cougars, wolves, and moose. Cougars are easy, make noise and look large and they go away. Wolves won't stay in range of a pistol very long. Moose are stupid but they are HUGE and scare the hell out of horses. This is where a trail wise horse that takes direction is useful. The spooky ones tend to run off and if you happen to be the rider you have two choices. Stay on and enjoy the ride (this is the safe choice), or fall off (the choice most people make).

Bears don't know the first thing about trail etiquette. They live there and think it is their trail. So if you run into one there are three variables. The horse, that would rather be at home. The rider, that would rather be out on the boat right now. And the bear that is really confused about the two headed thing in it's trail. Once again the trail wise horse that will take direction is useful. If you stand your ground, the bear will get intimidated by the two headed thing in front of it and give way. 

If you have ever rode a cutting horse, it is hard. They move really fast and they are not scared. A spooky horse looking down the trail at a bear tends to get a little nervous. They can spin really fast. Once again giving the rider the same two choices. Stay on and don't get eaten, or fall off (not recommended). I hope this is useful in your trail experience!


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## ShirtHotTeez

g8dhorse said:


> One more thing to add......NEVER leave your horse tied up unattended on one of these big rides. Make sure you really KNOW the people you are with and trust them to take care of your horse if you have to be absent for even a few minutes. I learned this the hard way...and it almost cost me my life. Someone DRUGGED my horse while I was away from the trailer for about 20 minutes. When he "woke up" 2 hrs later on top of the mountain he became frantic. He spooked, reared, galloped down the trail and threw me about 10ft in the air hitting two trees. I broke my spine, my hip, my pelvis, and fractured my neck on that ride. They found my horse eventually. He had a couple tiny scratches.
> 
> Know who you are riding with and don't let anyone give your horse ANYTHING you haven't approved of.
> 
> I don't ride with people I don't know any longer. It just takes one idiot.......


How absolutely apalling :shock: why would anyone do that :shock: I hope the person was reprimanded, at very least everyone in group made aware :shock:


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## ShirtHotTeez

Celeste said:


> Bird shot raining down is not that likely to hurt you...........


It can hurt more than you think if they are close enough to you :-( 

and there is potential for severe eye damage.


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## ShirtHotTeez

Joe4d said:


> since this is a trail etiquette and Chumbawamba appears to be a new trail rider, I will point out a bit of water etiquette,
> When you come to a water hole if there are other horses there drinking stop and wait your turn, even if your horse doesnt need water it is rude to pass or ride off while horses are still drinking. A horse in that group may need the water but get anxious and wanna leave if they see you race off.
> So stop, wait your turn, let your horse drink or not, move on a few feet out of the way till the other horses are done, then head on up the trail.


I agree. But also, when your horse has had a drink and you have splashed your head or whatever, then MOVE so someone else can get in there, don't just stop and chat to the bloke next to you. grrr, my bugbear!!!


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## ShirtHotTeez

STT GUY said:


> Searched this thread and didn't see anything about muddy trails.
> 
> 
> My wife and I are avid equestrians and mountain bikers so we get to see "both sides" of some trail use issues.
> 
> Riding muddy multi-use trails ruins the trail for other users, hikers and especially mountain bikers. Good trail stewards and courteous riders should try to *avoid riding trails when damage will occur.* Horses are very hard on soft/muddy trails and a couple of riders can damage a trail severely.
> 
> When encountering mountain bikers on trails, it is unreasonable to expect them to step far off the trail to the downside. *As a cyclist I am not going to step off to the downside and place my HEAD at the perfect level for a horse to kick it. I will step off to the upside and let the horse/rider work it out.*
> 
> Don't expect or ask me to take my helmet off or backpack off because it spooks your horse. If you and your horse are unable to adequately and safely cope with hikers and cyclists when encountering them then stay off public multi-use trails until your skill and/or your horses demeanor allow you to effectively manage such encounters safely.
> 
> Most of all,* TALK TO ME if I am a cyclist or hiker.* When we are on our horses we let mountain bikers know exactly what to do. Example..."Hi, if you pull over to riders right and stand we'll go right by you on your left, is that good for you?"


Hiya
First, sometimes a rider has a lot of things to co-ordinate to get out on a trail ride, and I'm sorry but worrying that I might cause a disturbance to someone else next week doesn't come into it. And they sure as hell wouldn't consider me.

Second, up or down on the trail, I agree safety comes first for everyone. IME down is seldom a good option.

Third, TALK. YES. If a horse hears a human voice from the weird looking shape that a helmeted person with backpack on a bike makes, they are more likely to settle.


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## ShirtHotTeez

AnitaAnne said:


> on RFT Goodnight did a show on trail riding etiquette and safety as well as how to keep up with gaited horses!
> 
> I missed the first 10 minutes, but will post info on the rest.
> 
> Riding with gaited horse, she had the gaited horse go ahead, then turn around and get behind, then repeat. Other option was to let faster horse get ahead, then turn a face the oncoming group, and join back in when they catch up. She does not recommend holding back the faster horse, as that will make them anxious.
> 
> She wants all the horses to ride near each other, without crowding. The group needs to stick together, no going off from the group, and do not allow slower horses to fall behind.
> 
> She also says the group riding needs to pick a leader to make decisions on when to go faster, how difficult the trail, etc. The leader needs to make sure the whole group is willing to ride at faster speeds first, and not go at faster speeds if everyone doesn't agree.
> 
> She also says to have the leader call out before going at faster speeds, ex we are going to trot now, wait until everyone says ok before doing it.
> 
> She doesn't allow the horses to socialize at all, not even touch noses.
> 
> Wants everyone to have horses that are well behaved and don't spook. Doesn't allow horses thaat the rider has difficulty controlling
> 
> For horses that are nervous and anxious and have difficulty settling down, take then out on the trail with a very experienced, very calm horse and make the nervous one follow the calm one.


That could make a long day pretty hard on the gaited horse. not a great technique IMO. and very unsettling for everyone else. Hard to relax and enjoy if someone is constantly rushing past both ways.


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## ShirtHotTeez

Ooops, didn't realize this thread was so old. Seldom look at the dates!!!
@STT GUY I am not insensitive to caring for private property, usually if its that wet we wouldn't go out. Occasionally there is no choice so we try choose a route that causes least damage.


I wanted to say about the etiquette of going through gates, especially in large groups. Sometimes the guide will open the gate and stay till everyone is through then close it. 

Good etiquette is to wait in a group then move off. But that seldom happens. At least one person should wait with the gate person till the gate is closed so their horse doesn't fret about being left.

If someone opens the gate and isn't waiting, make sure you open it fully so it doesn't slam back on the next horse (obvious? you would be surprised). The last person ALWAYS closes the gate. 

If you pass through a gate that is already open, make sure the message gets passed back to the last riders that it stays open. A lot of our treks/ trails are on farmland. Closing an open gate can mean that stock can not get to water, or alternately not closing a gate can let stock through to pasture they are not yet meant to be on.


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## Celeste

elkdog said:


> I read the original post and a few of the pages in between but not all of them. Poor flatlanders! The people I ride with are experienced outdoorsmen and women. Each others safety is paramount, with the horses well being a close second. We go for days on end and never run into other people. With the exception of some outfitter babysitting some cityiots. Sometimes we stop and make coffee with them because face it, we're tired of the people we've been with for the last week and a little new conversation is welcome. I read stories about mountain bikers and motorcycles, none of them in the Frank Church. The trail users we encounter know nothing about trail etiquette. Bears, cougars, wolves, and moose. Cougars are easy, make noise and look large and they go away. Wolves won't stay in range of a pistol very long. Moose are stupid but they are HUGE and scare the hell out of horses. This is where a trail wise horse that takes direction is useful. The spooky ones tend to run off and if you happen to be the rider you have two choices. Stay on and enjoy the ride (this is the safe choice), or fall off (the choice most people make).
> 
> Bears don't know the first thing about trail etiquette. They live there and think it is their trail. So if you run into one there are three variables. The horse, that would rather be at home. The rider, that would rather be out on the boat right now. And the bear that is really confused about the two headed thing in it's trail. Once again the trail wise horse that will take direction is useful. If you stand your ground, the bear will get intimidated by the two headed thing in front of it and give way.
> 
> If you have ever rode a cutting horse, it is hard. They move really fast and they are not scared. A spooky horse looking down the trail at a bear tends to get a little nervous. They can spin really fast. Once again giving the rider the same two choices. Stay on and don't get eaten, or fall off (not recommended). I hope this is useful in your trail experience!


Great post! I am afraid that my horse has been known to confuse a squirrel or an odd shaped rock with a bear............


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## secuono

I was reading through and noticed many times people say to keep an inexperienced horse at home....How is the horse supposed to become experienced then? 

Also, groups of 300? Wow! Wish people would take pictures of that, must be quite an interesting thing to do!


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## Avna

secuono said:


> I was reading through and noticed many times people say to keep an inexperienced horse at home....How is the horse supposed to become experienced then?
> 
> Also, groups of 300? Wow! Wish people would take pictures of that, must be quite an interesting thing to do!


With my inexperienced horse I go out with one to three dependable mature riders, with my trainer and a few of her other students (which she keeps a watchful eye on), or with a local trail riding group which emphasizes trail manners and making sure everyone is safe. The latter group is almost all walking. With the smaller group we might trot and canter. I also go out alone. 

Frankly, the idea of going out with a group of more than fifteen -- of which fourteen are competent -- is not something I would ever care to do. 300 sounds like a mob scene and I wouldn't do that to my horse or myself. The charm completely escapes me.


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## secuono

Interesting as in to see from the outside looking in. I don't like crowds either way. =)

Thanks Avna. I'm hoping my trainer will be willing to take my gelding and I on a trail on their farm later in the year. 
Right now, I'm taking hikes with my gelding on our land that has some woods. Seems like he's forgotten that there is life beyond the trees.


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## walkinthewalk

----



secuono said:


> I was reading through and noticed many times people say to keep an inexperienced horse at home....How is the horse supposed to become experienced then? *I have taken a green horse on small group rides and on big organized rides with a friend along. I always kept the green horse at the tail end of any ride. It's the best way to teach them. Very rarely will a horse refuse to go, when all of its peers have preceded it. *
> 
> Also, groups of 300? Wow! Wish people would take pictures of that, must be quite an interesting thing to do!


*ive been on a couple of those 300 horse rides. I tolerated them because Duke was a fast moving horse by nature. He started an all day ride in the top ten and finished in the top ten. That meant I saw no ignorance, heard no ignorance and spoke no ignorance s*


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## Avna

I wouldn't keep a green horse in the back. On a trail ride I try to ride some in the middle, some at the back, and lead some. I ask my horse to be the same no matter where she is in the group. How can she learn how to behave if you don't give her the opportunity? Sure, if we are in front and get stuck on an obstacle I'll ask someone to go first to 'pull' her along, so as not to slow up the group, but that's about it. Doesn't happen much any more.


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## walkinthewalk

Avna said:


> I wouldn't keep a green horse in the back. On a trail ride I try to ride some in the middle, some at the back, and lead some. I ask my horse to be the same no matter where she is in the group. How can she learn how to behave if you don't give her the opportunity? Sure, if we are in front and get stuck on an obstacle I'll ask someone to go first to 'pull' her along, so as not to slow up the group, but that's about it. Doesn't happen much any more.


That all comes after the horse has a few social rides under its cinch. When I say green, about all they knew was whoa and go, or they were ex sow horses that had never seen a trai and a woods full of boogeyman. They were not horses I raised or my friends raised. We didn't know if we were dealing with a kicker. 

Safety of the other horses came first. There would be a lot of upcoming rides for the horse to the finer details ---- first we had to learn what kind of horse we were riding.


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