# Sitting back when tying



## OkieGal (Dec 14, 2011)

Maybe try a well fitted rope halter and a very long lead. 

Don't tie the lead up, just loop it to where if he does try to pull or sit back, he doesn't hit the breaking point of the rope.

So if he does move back, he doesn't figure out that if he goes to a certain point that he can break out of being tied.
He just continues on with the lead, and doesn't break free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kcscott85 (Jul 28, 2010)

I've tried that with the lunge line. I looped it (not tied) around a hitching post and he just kept backing up until he hit the end, then he kept pulling until he got out of his halter. He seems to know that he's being tied and he knows exactly how to move his head to get out of the halter. He's a very frustrating horse. If only he would apply that same smartness to getting back in shape!


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

does this horse rub his head on something to get it off,or does it just come off when he pulls


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## kcscott85 (Jul 28, 2010)

He'll pull back, then when he hits the end of the tie or crossties, he just starts twisting, going up and down, and side to side. I've adjusted his halter so that it's as tight as it can go around his head, and he still is able to get out. I'm mystified. I use a regular nylon halter with no breakaway.


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## Legend (Nov 15, 2011)

kcscott85 said:


> He'll pull back, then when he hits the end of the tie or crossties, he just starts twisting, going up and down, and side to side. I've adjusted his halter so that it's as tight as it can go around his head, and he still is able to get out. I'm mystified. I use a regular nylon halter with no breakaway.


I would use a Roper Halter. A well fitted Rope Halter, IMO would stay better. And also, when he pulls back, the knots will hit on his pressure points, and the only way to relive it for him would be to stop pulling back.

So, I think it would make it a lot harder to get off with a Rope Halter on. Just my opinion.


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## Mike Zimmerman (Oct 30, 2011)

I would see how well he leads up, by that I mean if you were leading him and you sped up and put a pulling pressure on him. How would he react? My guess is he'l set back so be prepared with a long lead rope and wear gloves. If he does set back when you do that keep pressure on him but go with him until he steps forward then release pressure. Sending exercises would help too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

If you have him in *a fitted rope halter* that he can't worm his way out of, try a bucket of hay? My horse wouldn't tie and so I would give him hay and then sneakily tie him to a piece of bailing twine attached to a post. Over time, I took the hay away and he was happy to stand. 

The key to any new thing is to do as much as you can, without him reacting. So if you manage to clip him to a crosstie, leave on for 1 second, BEFORE he reacts... or fusses.. or whatnot, and then take it off (give him a release.)

Good luck

EDIT: I reread a few responses and I see what's going on. He needs a better halter. Making it tighter doesn't teach him anything. Put him in a fitted rope, and you'll have no problems with him escaping it. Nylon web will break.. my horse in the past could weasel his way out of his. He'd rip the crossties and the halter apart before he decided to stand. I put him in rope (and it was a big gauge fluffy rope..) and NO problems. He couldn't escape from it, couldn't break it. I kept him in rope, have had no problems since. Now I can put him in leather and he's happy or I could put him in nylon (if I wanted to, not a fan of nylon) and he's fine. He ground ties, cross ties, post ties, tree ties, toddler ties, whatever. 

But it helped him putting on a rope halter and giving him a bucket of hay (he was a nervous horse.)


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## kcscott85 (Jul 28, 2010)

Mike Zimmerman said:


> I would see how well he leads up, by that I mean if you were leading him and you sped up and put a pulling pressure on him. How would he react? My guess is he'l set back so be prepared with a long lead rope and wear gloves. _Posted via Mobile Device_


He leads just fine or stands when being held, even with pressure on. My 3 year old has even shown him in halter...running and tugging to get him to trot. He's a perfect gentleman until the rope is attached to something stable. Sneaky horse. 

Skyseternalangel (sorry, it wouldn't let me do multi quote for some reason): I have tried the hay thing. When we went to a show, I put his hay net on the side and tied him (well clipped with 3 trailer ties so he had quite a bit of space). Yep, he took a good bite, realized he was tied as well, and pulled back. Popped a bolt out of the tie ring on the trailer! 

I will try the rope halter. I have never used one before (I come from an eventing barn where it's leather halter central) so tell me if this is the one I should use. If not, I'll order whatever is recommended. 









Thanks for all your responses! I really appreciate all the help.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I'd recommend this instead: Diamond Braid Rope Halter & Lead: Blue

All rope.. no clips, no rawhide on the nose.. the rope will help.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

The rope halter shown on the horse's head is tied WRONG. The end that goes through the loop should always be tied around the loop and not the top. Tie one the way it is shown and it will work loose.

Your horse needs to be trained to tie with one lead-rope to one safe, smooth , strong place that is safe BEFORE you try to put him in cross-ties. You should never tie a horse solidly in cross-ties that does not tie well with a single rope. It is a good way to get one killed or severely injured.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I second the rope halter (mostly because it also makes it more uncomfortable to pull).

I would like to mention though that the picture you posted is _not_ how you put a rope halter on a horse. Like Cherie said, the knot is tied wrong and it is tied way too loose and would be very easy for a horse to slip out of it. It should be tied up with the throatlatch snug...









Tie him to something unbreakable, with a fairly short lead tied at least wither height, no lower. He will fight, and it will be ugly. Don't leave him completely alone, you need to always be in sight of him so that you can get him out if he gets in _real_ trouble. Also, carry a sharp knife in your pocket so that you can cut the rope instead of trying to untie it in a true emergency.

If he can still slip out of the rope halter, then I would suggest you try a neck rope, where you tie a rope around his throatlatch with a no-slip knot (like a bowline knot), run it through the lead ring of the halter, and tie him with that.

I feel that this may be your only choice since he has already proven he knows how to get out of it, even using the wrap method.


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## kcscott85 (Jul 28, 2010)

smrobs said:


> I second the rope halter (mostly because it also makes it more uncomfortable to pull).
> 
> I would like to mention though that the picture you posted is _not_ how you put a rope halter on a horse. Like Cherie said, the knot is tied wrong and it is tied way too loose and would be very easy for a horse to slip out of it. It should be tied up with the throatlatch snug...
> 
> ...


I think that's more what the rope halter I have looks like. I just posted that picture because it was the only one I could find that looked remotely like it. I will definitely tighten up the knots (he has a petite head), and try this out. I am not against letting him fight it out in a normal setting; I'm just really worried he'll fight so much that he'll reinjure that darn tendon. Because if I know Jester, he's going to put up quite the struggle. 

Also, Cherie: I have only cross tied him 2x- I agree with you that he should be able to single tie before cross tying. When I bought him, the owner said he had no problem with cross tying. After doing it twice and having him escape twice, I went to single ties. That's obviously not working too well for me, so I'm going to be trying all your suggestions!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I understand your fear of re-injuring the tendon and that is a very real possibility, unfortunately. Do you have some really _good_ SMBs you could put on him?


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

I ride a horse that does the exact same thing! Clever little cuss. She just steps back and shakes her head until she slips the halter over her cheeks. Than she had wiggle out in a second.


I had to high line her on a trail ride once. She got out twice. A friend of mine put her in a rope halter and tighten the throat peice _tight_. You could get a few fingers between the rope and her skin. I said, "That's too tight! Won't that hurt?" My friend said, "Yes. Only for a little while, until she learns she can't get out."

I watched that horse struggle for 30 minutes, trying her old tricks. There was no way she could get loose. After she fought it out, we loosened the throat a bit, so it was decently comfortable but still tight. If she couldn't slip the halter over her cheeks, she couldn't slip it off. 


She's cured of it now. Get yourself a rope halter, tie him safely, tighten the throat, and let him figure it out. It will probably work.


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## OkieGal (Dec 14, 2011)

You could also try adding two knots to the back of the halter for added pressure points on the pole.


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## kcscott85 (Jul 28, 2010)

smrobs said:


> I understand your fear of re-injuring the tendon and that is a very real possibility, unfortunately. Do you have some really _good_ SMBs you could put on him?


Yes, I ordered him a pair of Back on Track sport boots that should come today. I think I'm going to give him a week or so of exercising and riding before attempting to tie him. But I will definitely try everyone's suggestions. If the halter tying doesn't help, then we'll try the tother methods. Thanks!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Oh I guarantee a rope halter will have your horse singing a different tune. Make sure to incorporate it into daily horsey life, not just use it for tying.. then that could create other problems, OP.


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## smokeslastspot (Jan 11, 2012)

Thank you Cherie and smrobs! I have a problem with my halters getting loose. I have never seen a halter tied like the one in the correct picture (post 12) but it looks to fit so much more securely.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Cherie said:


> Your horse needs to be trained to tie with one lead-rope to one safe, smooth , strong place that is safe BEFORE you try to put him in cross-ties. *You should never tie a horse solidly in cross-ties that does not tie well with a single rope.* It is a good way to get one killed or severely injured.


Interesting theory since the pressure points are different.


OP - do you have access to a tie stall? We've taught several pullers how to tie in a tie stall. The stall is long enough so they can try pulling but not long enough so we can't put a rump board behind them to back into and thus stop. Some hay in front of them and just hang out and keep an eye on them. Our tie stalls are in the indoor arena so I work other horses and be there in case I need to help.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

mls said:


> Interesting theory since the pressure points are different.



It's not necessarily that. If they don't tie well on a single rope, then when put on cross ties, they're not likely to respect them either.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I gotta write--I'm not fond of rope halters--never have been. I use triple-ply nylon OR all leather, standard halters. The leather ones will breakaway, and when I'm working my horses, I tie up with the end of the crownpiece hooked through the hole but not buckled. One the few instances where a horse has become caught I can get it undone, but I also tie with a quick release and daisy chain my ropes.
What do you do when you correctly tie up with a rope halter, and your horse panics bc his foot is caught on the rope, or all those other hung up situations? Can you get close enought to untie the halter? Will the halter just slip off? If so, your horse can figure out how to do that on his own. *ULTIMATELY it's your horse's training that keeps him tied up to...anything.* You have to think ahead for your horse. It's kinda like what I do with my dogs. When I leash them to walk I use a choke chain. If I have to tie them up I rehook the leash to their collars, so they cannot panic and choke themselves.
I guess I just prefer the standard halter, and I know that it's been widely used for centuries, judging from artwork. JUST my opinion, but you can tell me why YOU prefer a rope one.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Well, the root of the problem is not the halter....it's that the horse was not *trained to tie quietly;* so it comes down to a training problem, not an equipment problem. Like Corporal said...."it's your horse's TRAINING that keeps them tied to anything."

So, now you have to teach him to tie. All of my horses have been taught to tie no matter where they are....it becomes a routine right from the start, with stall tying. And it HAS to be done daily. You have a stall, start tying him in there when you brush him. Take him out, do whatever it is you do with him, then after...right back in the stall, tied, brushed again. You said he's coming off an injury and out of stall rest....start NOW. If you aren't riding him yet...and are just hand walking or limited turnout, then stall tie to put boots on and then stall tie again when he comes back. Eventually it becomes a routine and horses LOVE a routine because it takes the "guess work" out of it for them. When he's doing that well, bring him out into the aisle and tie with one rope, he'll be familar with that from being stall tied. Then progress up to the cross ties.

My horse is stall tied after EVERY ride or schooling session. I show him so he stands stall tied at shows for over an hour or more. He's got a hay back and happy as a clam. It has become routine, it's his downtime.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

While I somewhat agree with the statement that "it's your training that keeps them tied to anything", I also have to slightly disagree.

Once a horse has learned to sit back and break loose and they are no longer doing it out of fear, then it has become a habit. The habit cannot be broken until the horse realizes that they can no longer get loose whenever _they_ choose. This horse isn't scared, he isn't panicked, he knows exactly what he's doing and he won't learn not to do it any more until the OP can find a way to make him unable to do it.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Corporal said:


> What do you do when you correctly tie up with a rope halter, and your horse panics bc his foot is caught on the rope, or all those other hung up situations? Can you get close enought to untie the halter? Will the halter just slip off? If so, your horse can figure out how to do that on his own. *ULTIMATELY it's your horse's training that keeps him tied up to...anything.* .


I usually just take out my knife and cut the halter or rope if a horse gets tangled up but if you have tied the horse properly that shouldn't happen. When it does happen if you just wait for a minute the horse will usually stop struggleing and you can safely cut or untie the rope. It's actually the rope halter, stout lead rope and 10 inch post set in 3 feet of concrete that keeps my horse tied ULTIMATELY. I don't have any horses that are bad to tie and I think the reason is that they have NEVER gotten away when they have tried to pull back.


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## perhapsimabandit (Feb 20, 2011)

Mine has done this too and it sounds very similar to yours. Sneaky ponies.

A strategy that has worked pretty well for me is to take a long rope and tie a slip knot in it then hide around the corner. When she pulls a bit of slack (not *pulling* pulling, just moving her head to get more rope) I would walk up and put her head back where it was. If you get a long enough rope you can do this without the horse seeing you. I still don't leave Trill tied unsupervised, which is annoying, but that has helped general barn tying and whatnot.

She also does pretty well with a bungee tie. Not one that is so elastic it snaps her forward into the wall when she pulls back, but just enough "give" so that she doesn't feel trapped if she pulls her head a bit. I think her pulling started as fear motivated then became a bad habit once she broke away enough times.

She is not super treat motivated, but when she is tied and I am giving her a goody after a ride or whatever she only gets it if she is standing nicely next to her tie ring. If she pulls she's SOL.

Good luck - that's such a frustrating problem!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Skyseternalangel said:


> It's not necessarily that. If they don't tie well on a single rope, then when put on cross ties, they're not likely to respect them either.


 
Cross ties can be very intimidating for horses. Very confining. Some horses do not like the single tie as many times they are face first into a wall or trailer - again - very confining.

Some horses sense enough play in a straight tie and try to pull. Those same horses are angels in a cross tie. And vice versa.

Each horse is individual. Pressure points are more or less sensitive then the horse standing next to them. Attitude is different. Learning curve is different.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

I use "THE CLIP"........it is a safe method by which to tie and to teach tying....google it .....they have some demo videos that will show you how it works.

I used it on our youngster when she got impatient and would have a tantrum.....I never tie with out them.

Super Nova


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## PoohLP (Jan 15, 2009)

I had to do this with my 3yo when I first brought him home as he quickly showed a propensity to sit back in the cross ties. He and a tree became very good friends. I’d tie him for tacking up and then after we finished working for about 30 minutes. Now I can tie him anywhere and he is fine int he cross ties. It took about 2 months. 



You definitely need a rope halter for this – preferably one with a little bit of bite (i.e., the rope shouldn’t be too soft). Tie the rope short (as in no more than an arm’s length and probably less) and high and your horse will have less chance to dance around and hurt himself and he also won’t be able to get twisted in the rope. 

I like the idea of the boots to protect his tendon, but it might be a good idea to run this all by your vet before proceeding. It definitely isn’t worth a reinjury. I found that while my horse would fight the tree initially, he’d tie quietly in the corner of this stall, so, assuming there is a solid post to tie to that might be a better place to start to get him acclimated to being tied with less of a chance for a s%&# fit that could risk reinjury. 

Also, do you know how to tie a bull/frog knot? If your horse seriously challenges the rope, a slip knot can get so tight it is difficult to release when it is time. A frog knot can be easily loosened. The only time I couldn’t get the knot undone was when I used a cheap rope that melted together because of the friction from the pulling.  Moral of that story is buy a good rope to replace the cheap one that sometimes come with the halter. Make sure you get the rope that ties onto the halter, not one with a snap – snaps can break! I spent $15 on the halter and $40 on the rope (It’s either a 10 or 15 long rope with a flicker.) I do not regret the investment.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

I'm going to agree with smrobs about using a rope around his neck and running it threw his halter. My app pulls back every time you tie him. We use a rope around his next and run it threw his halter and tie him to a metal hitching post that is about five foot tall. Do not tie him to anything he can rear up and get his legs over.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

Our hitching is sunk down in concrete and about six foot underground. I have had my app pull up hitching posts, fence posts, break barn supports, he has gotten himself over top of hitching post, flipped himself upside down, etc. Yes it is a very ugly scene and hard to watch, luckily. Even as aggressive as he is he has never gotten seriously injured.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

GotaDunQH said:


> All of my horses have been taught to tie no matter where they are....*it becomes a routine right from the start, with stall tying.* *And it HAS to be done daily.*
> ...My horse is stall tied after EVERY ride or schooling session. I show him so he stands stall tied at shows for over an hour or more. He's got a hay back and happy as a clam. It has become routine, it's his downtime.


COULD NOT have put it better. Thanks!! Sometimes you just forget what you know--I do the same with my horses, GotaDunQH!!


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

My mom's horse Nut-Megg did this as a yearling. We used a super heavy duty, longer bungee cord. If he sat back it stretched so it defeated his purpose of doing it. (Which of course was breaking the rope and getting free) It broke his naughty habit.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

Corporal said:


> COULD NOT have put it better. Thanks!! Sometimes you just forget what you know--I do the same with my horses, GotaDunQH!!


Thanks back at you! Funny how horses accept things when it becomes a routine.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

mls said:


> Cross ties can be very intimidating for horses. Very confining. Some horses do not like the single tie as many times they are face first into a wall or trailer - again - very confining.
> 
> Some horses sense enough play in a straight tie and try to pull. Those same horses are angels in a cross tie. And vice versa.
> 
> Each horse is individual. Pressure points are more or less sensitive then the horse standing next to them. Attitude is different. Learning curve is different.



Very true, which is why it's best to try and desensitize each horse as much as possible. If they aren't fine being tied on a post or one crosstie, and then you try and tie them to two crossties, they will test them and then they will either decide not to try to escape and stand, or they'll put pressure on them and destroy it. Then they'll continue to test and test and test. 

Then you get the result of how my horse used to be: breaking every halter, every rope, escaping halters, breaking crossties, fences, muscling his way out of everything including trailers and stalls.. 

In other words, a horse whom makes poor and sometimes dangerous decisions. 

There will be better success when they feel comfortable being tied in an assortment of ways. I prefer rope, because my horse didn't respect nylon nor leather. He'd break it. He was lovely in rope however.

But yeah, each horse works in their own way. Some like leather, some work in nylon, some like rope.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I have a few ways to cure a "puller" I'd like to share

1. Like most others said, you can tie him to a good gentle tree with a good rope halter. Make sure the halter is *behind *his jaws in the throatlatch and tie it tight. Like you're trying to choke him (you won't actually choke him at all). I had lots of horses sit back and break halters and had some bad wrecks (shoeing) for years. Then I started making rope halters and things became much safer for me and customer's horses. No more horses flying backwards and cracking their skull because a halter broke. No more horses falling on *me *because their halter broke. 

2. Another thing you can do is pony him with another good broke horse with a long lead rope. This isn't for everybody, but it works really good and if you're handy you can slide some rope when he resists, and he'll come on in no time. Do not tie him to the horn!! You will have the most spectacular horse wreck you can imagine, and you'll open your eyes and realize he's in the saddle with you! Just take a wrap and let the rope slide when there is tension, then reel him back in. I think it's best to have a long lariat rope like 40 or 50 foot for this. That way you can keep your distance. Not for everybody, but it's fun and good for both horses. 

3. This is a trick I saved for last because I think it's the best for most horsemen: Step on his lead rope. Be ready because he's going to throw his head up! If you're standing with all your weight on it, you'll get faceplanted. But just stand on it with one foot and he'll feel trapped. When he over-reacts and throws his head up, he'll probably run backwards. Keep tension on the rope, and he'll stop eventually. Do it again. His reactions will become less severe, and soon he'll figure out to drop his head and put slack in the rope himself. Usually 30 minutes will cure him and he won't pull when tied.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I like number 2. It's good for both horses.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

I LOVE number 2! It's the best thing for horses all the way around.


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