# Bucking under Saddle



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I find out why and eliminate the why.


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

mls said:


> I find out why and eliminate the why.


What if it's just a bucker? Not caused by saddle fit, back pain, etc?


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

^ agreed. I've ridden plenty of horses that bucked out of stubbornness. They didn't want to work, they bucked, the owner would get off. There was nothing wrong with the horses except maybe laziness or stubbornness.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

mls said:


> I find out why and eliminate the why.


Ditto!

Stubbornness or excitements are also the reasons. Just make it work. And in fact truly LAZY horse will not buck - it's just too lazy for that too. 
However most cases I've seen it was a back issue (or bad saddle fit, or problems with pad).


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

kitten_Val said:


> Ditto!
> 
> Stubbornness or excitements are also the reasons. Just make it work. And in fact truly LAZY horse will not buck - it's just too lazy for that too.
> However most cases I've seen it was a back issue (or bad saddle fit, or problems with pad).


Rider error is huge.

One of our group was tossed last weekend. Riding a borrowed horse. Horse has only ever given the 'yahoo' feet 6 inches off the ground buck previously. This rider MADE the horse buck. Trying to make her run but in her mouth at the same time.

Cold backed horses will crow hop until warmed up. I have a gelding like that.

My other gelding I really ticked off last night. We were loping through grand entry practice. Heading toward the gate, some of the lead horses took off. I would not let my guy run - he responded by putting his rear in the air. I responded by picking up his front end and putting him in a spin. He walked off - head and rear down. Still mad but under control.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

Yea, but what about horses that only buck in one place. a Perfect school pony we have will buck near the far corner. you can circle him there to your hearts desire but he will keep bucking till the sun goes down. You can't just ignore that corner. he's perfectly sound, bitless bridle so the kids won't bug him, feet are great, back is good, and saddle was made for him.

When I asked my question, I was talking about constant buckers. Some horses don't have a vice that can be fixed. Sometimes horses just kick naturally, just like for some humans, the automatic response is to hit playfully. 

or even a horse that is fresh and bucks. i would rather train that horse to find a better way to expel his excess energy than to buck and risk injuring himself or others.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Piper182 said:


> ^ agreed. I've ridden plenty of horses that bucked out of stubbornness. They didn't want to work, they bucked, the owner would get off. There was nothing wrong with the horses except maybe laziness or stubbornness.


Thats a fact. I'm guilty of it in fact:shock: My first horse (a 2 year old) started doing little bucks so I got off thinking there was something wrong with her. She started doing it more (big surprise) I called a trainer who set me straight right off the bat. Never let it be something the horses did that gets you off. If your forced off, get right back on.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

Make them work. The rider seems to get too caught up in worrying about the horse bucking and waits for it rather then getting the horse busy. They are soo many reason or explanations as to why a horse bucks. A person could sit here until they were blue in the face as to why a horse bucks. My goal riding a "bucker" is to keep there feet moving. Keep there mind busy so they are concentrating on where there feet are, not about bucking. Keep them moving until they relax and then let them walk on. This is after a person rules out pain, teeth etc...


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## onetoomany (Dec 10, 2008)

Horses that are buckers by nature are few and far in between. Usually there is a why and solving the why is better than trying to ride it out. Sometimes the answers are not as obvious as saddle fit, teeth etc. While bucking is not an acceptable answer and it should be worked through- riding it out is not always the answer.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

If you are *sure* the horse is NOT bucking because of pain, but is bucking because of irritation or spoiled[ness?], the first trick is to KEEP THEIR HEAD UP so they can't buck. Horses have to lower their heads to buck, so if you keep their heads UP, they shouldn't be able to. You can try [if you're desperate] useing an anti-grazing device, or attaching another pair of reins to the bit and looping them to the saddle horn, but I wouldn't reccommend it. Mostly I'de just work on keeping their head up with your own strength, being able to ride it out, and also being able to think quick enought to smack them on the butt RIGHT after they do it. When you smack them, turn them in a circle [one rein stop]. A circle is punishment--most people won't agree with that but would YOU like to walk in a circle all day? I wouldn't! Also, when you turn them in a tight circle, they can't do anything but turn--no bucking, no rearing, no galloping off, etc. Just act like nothing is going to happen. Be calm. Ride it out, but punish accordingly.


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## paint gurl 23 (Jan 26, 2009)

sunny06 said:


> If you are *sure* the horse is NOT bucking because of pain, but is bucking because of irritation or spoiled[ness?], the first trick is to KEEP THEIR HEAD UP so they can't buck. Horses have to lower their heads to buck, so if you keep their heads UP, they shouldn't be able to. You can try [if you're desperate] useing an anti-grazing device, or attaching another pair of reins to the bit and looping them to the saddle horn, but I wouldn't reccommend it. Mostly I'de just work on keeping their head up with your own strength, being able to ride it out, and also being able to think quick enought to smack them on the butt RIGHT after they do it. When you smack them, turn them in a circle [one rein stop]. A circle is punishment--most people won't agree with that but would YOU like to walk in a circle all day? I wouldn't! Also, when you turn them in a tight circle, they can't do anything but turn--no bucking, no rearing, no galloping off, etc. Just act like nothing is going to happen. Be calm. Ride it out, but punish accordingly.


I have to kindly disagree with you. I have been on horses that can run through the bit in a circle (it was a ride!)...it was a morgan gelding...and also I have been on horses that buck without putting there head down. They can get more air getting there head down agreed but they can still buck without getting it down. Dirty I know, but I have seen it and been on it! I agree with everything else you said though, the be calm and act like your just out for a nice ride and hang on!


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## Jdun722 (Dec 27, 2008)

You need to first figure out why they are bucking and go from there. If it is pain then it needs to be eliminated. If it is fear it needs to be treated. If it is anger then it needs to be resolved. And if it is because of not wanting to respond then you need to make them want to. It sounds simple but the first step is always finding the problem. From there you want to try to solve it. There are a couple ways of solving the type of bucking out from not wanting to respond, one way is to work them hard (which I do not approve of but many people do) and then another way is to have them keep repeating what happened right before the buck until they can complete the task without bucking.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Don't forget that a lot of horses will "buck" out of excitement - but that's typically only a single occurance of kicking up the heels. My Arab mare still does it for first canter. When I ask for a canter and don't let her gallop, she'll give me a little crowhop to tell me she is not pleased but will do as I ask. Even on a loose rein, it's a single occurance, not an annoyed and frustrated fit.

It really depends on why a horse is bucking. I'm a bit of old school farm stock, so in the past, I'd pretty much just "ride the buck" out and have them figure out they weren't getting me off. This was exclusively for known buckers that had figured out they could dump a rider to get out of work. As soon as they were done having a fit, I put them to hard work. It worked pretty much every time and I rarely had a second occurance. I learned with my Arab gelding as a child that pulling him up from the buck just made him think he'd won - instead of being asked to move out, he was allowed to stop for a moment, even though I put him to work right after. So that's my personal theory. The day I was old enough and experienced enough to ride the crap out of him and make him WORK for his fit, he cut it out.

I don't like hitting buckers with crops because I don't think it accomplishes much. They're already having an enraged fit, and physical discipline tends to fuel the fire. Teaching them that nonesense anatics won't accomplish dumping a rider has always worked best for me.

Obviously I always look for saddle pain first, but most buckers I've ridden have just been smart enough to figure out they can dump you. Shay-las moms Quarab mare will ONLY buck on me if I ride bareback - she knows she can't win with the saddle, but she caught me off guard once cantering bareback and the sneaky witch piled me into a snowbank. It took a few more rides to teach her it was a one time occurance and she's a lot better now. Still have to stay on my toes though :lol: She knows the minute I stop paying attention and will take full advantage of it.


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## Calamity Jane (Mar 16, 2009)

1. Saddle fit, teeth, bit
2. lack of proper basic training
3. rider error, imbalance,...
4. pain (horse is "out" somewhere)

Find out what the problem is and fix that. 

I've had horses come in for training who have bucked.

1 was due to being unbroke when the owner thought she'd bought a broke horse

another was because the former trainer had tried to buck the horse out and caused the horse to go sour on pressure and being ridden because she refused to give in to the "buck em out" crap and ended up being seriously hurt = hated being ridden, resented being told to go forward...basically a lousy start from a ****-poor trainer

another bucked because he was "lazy" and lacked a good go forward cue

another bucked because he had low withers and preferred the (wide tree) saddle to be slightly farther back than normal

another bucked because he was in pain thanks to being ridden for years as a dressage lesson horse and always cinched up hard and he was "out" somewhere and had scar tissue

another bucked like mad because she had a cracked tooth and the bit hit it and she blew up

another bucked because she had a green rider with lousy balance

another bucked because she was rushed through her basic training

---- 

How did I fix these? Restarted everyone on the ground, then went back to the saddle. When I got in the saddle, there wasn't a reason for the buck anymore. For those who bucked out of pain...I got a massage therapist or chiropractor or acupuncturist or vet or dentist or....and the problem went away.

I don't believe in the word "stubborn." I think that simply means there's a breech in communication somewhere and the person hasn't gotten the point across well enough for the horse to accept it as a valid reason to respond without unwanted behavior. 

I don't believe there are horses who just buck for bucking's sake. I know in rodeos they use flank straps and those horses learn to buck to get a release of pressure...when the rider falls off or jumps off = the release of pressure = bucking works to get a release of pressure.

As for the pony that bucks in the corner...without any real details or having seen it, I could only speculate that it's because the pony has bucked someone off there once before and he's learned that at that spot, he can get a release of pressure, so he bucks and the person falls off = release of pressure. Or he bucks and the rider at that moment stops asking the pony for whatever cue(giving the pony a release of pressure)...Also...the rider can actually "cue" the horse to buck at this spot if the rider is tensing up in anticipation of the buck. 

It's like, when a person anticipates a horse to bolt and tightens up on the reins, this can actually cause the horse to bolt. 

I strongly believe it's about proper use of pressure and developing timing for where to put the release of pressure. 

If you put it in the "wrong" place (the horse doesn't know right or wrong) then that's what the horse learns...to do X to get a release of pressure. 

X can be to give to pressure if the training is good enough, or X can be bucking if the training is lacking. I think that's all it comes down to (if pain isn't an issue)


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