# Look What They Did To Him **Chinga**



## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Chinga oh my god im shocked your poor poor pony! Is there another field he can moved to for a few days until you can sort something out?? If not i actually would stay up and cath them in the act have an adult with you though as you dont know what kind of people they are!

Secondly your going to have to just build his trust again dont do anythng that will antagonise him as he could hurt you.

Please keep us informed of whats happening.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Yes. Exactly what you said are my plans, we are trying to find a new home for him * Not permidently* ASAP. But with everyone having their land already in use it is impossible. I don't think it will take long to build his trust again he learnt to trust me the first time pretty quickly, but the second time may be harder. We will get there though. 

His "Hyponess" may also have a tiny bit to do with he hasn't been ridden in just under two weeks.


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## XxemmafuriaxX (Jan 4, 2010)

omg!!! who done that to your horse? cant you stop them breaking in? sorry i cant help you... hope everything goes back to normal :S


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Bloody hell :S

Do you have a friend who would let you put him on their property for a while? I would set up a bit of a roster with your and your parents and have someone keeping watch during the night, see if you can get the idiots who are doing this so you can get the police onto it, film them in the act if possible. If you have video you have proof.


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

jeeze some people obiously have nothing better to do. 
Poor baby! If you want to put him here for a couple of days I'm sure we could arrange something. I could always ask mum if you like. Poor baby.


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## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

oh.my.god
This is just horrible!
You havn't been having much luck with things lately have you?!
I hope you find somewhere else to keep him asap, and totally agree with Kayty with keeping watch over the paddock in the mean time.

It's going to take a good while to gain his trust again. Keep us posted


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks guys, not sure Jalah. He trusts no one at the moment so I can't put him in a paddock with Pumpkin since you guys will be going in and out and safty wise I just can't risk it. Also there is no grass in your other paddock. Correct? :S .

We've got 24 hour watch on the paddock. I will kick the arses of the people who are doing this to my baby. Don't worry Jalah its not a thing, we believe it has something to do with the agistment owners daughters ex-boyfriend..


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> I will kick the arses of the people who are doing this to my baby.


 Don't worry Maddie, I'll be joining you :?
We do have grass in the back paddock now; it all grew back nice and well. Oh well, if you can't find anywhere let me know


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks  It means alot. I just don't want anyone getting hurt. Aamelia's saying sell him.. But I think shes just worried. Its not his fault. We've gotten there once, we can get there again. I think a good, relaxing ride will do him good. But I'm not rushing getting on him.


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

Are you going to go back to the very basics of the trust. Like "sitting in the paddock with a bag of carrots" thing? You know I would be there right now with you, but yeah... he isn't looking to happy. And I do sorta love my head where it is ;p.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

That's horrible, I'm so sorry. Are you positive they beat him?

The thing I saw in the vids was a horse taking advantage of you. You can clearly see that you're timid and afraid of him and he is clearly showing you that he doesn't want to work and he's going to do what he wants. He's chasing you because he's the herd boss. Running away won't help any problems.

With the saddle pad, you're walking up to him showing all your fear, He's picking up on that. You're also walking up too slow and too creepy, so he thinks "hell, I can get away with it if all I do is put my ears back and move my butt."


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

White Foot said:


> That's horrible, I'm so sorry. The thing I saw in the vids was a horse taking advantage of you. You can clearly see that you're timid and afraid of him and he is clearly showing you that he doesn't want to work and he's going to do what he wants. He's chasing you because he's the herd boss. Running away won't help any problems.
> 
> With the saddle pad, you're walking up to him showing all your fear, He's picking up on that. You're also walking up too slow and too creepy, so he thinks "hell, I can get away with it if all I do is put my ears back and move my butt."


I so agree with your first part. I'm getting my instructor out as I mentioned above (Shes coming tomorow). I had no experianced horse people with me and when he'd gone at me like he had with the fence (apart from no fence) I did not feel comfortable ignoring,ect his running at me. With the saddle pad. He prefers things really slow. One step at a time, I know that sounds stupid but he really does. What he had done previous times I'd walked up to him with the pad was completely kick out so I was warry of that. But as I said my instructor should be with me tomorow and from then on I should be a whole lot more confident with the situation. I just need some guiding. After the videos were taken dad did come out and having dad who is 6ft 4 around made me a whole lot more confident as well. I am not trying to deny, make up excuses or say you are wrong. I am just telling you what had previously/before hand gone on and a few other details. But overall if my instructor had been with me when he ran at me I would have been able to deal with the situation a whole lot easier.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

You're really not having a good run lately are you. Just remember to stay calm & confident with him and to advance & release.

If you don't mind me asking, how do you know that went at him with whips? Did they leave them out? Not trying to have a go in any way, just curious.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Yes they did leave them out, also the way he reacted to them -- I use to be able to stand on his back and crack a stock whip.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

oh ok. I was just wondering, I have had horses get traumatised by people in the paddock too. Its very hard to see the work you've done with a horse be destroyed by other peoples stupidity.


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> Yes they did leave them out, also the way he reacted to them -- I use to be able to stand on his back and crack a stock whip.


aww poor boy. maybe my crop is bring all the bad luck? lol. i sure hope not. i must be cursed


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Maddie when you approach him with the saddle blanket, you look like you're about to ambush him. Try to approach with it closed, and casual, not like you're about to throw it at him. That may be playing a part in why he got so stressed about it. Try walking up to him casually, talking to him, offer him a carrot, then go about slipping the saddle pad on him. 

I do have to agree with White Foot, he may be scared if being have stirred him up in the paddock, but he appears to be an aggressive/dominant type of horse in response to fear. Some will cower at the back of their yard, Chinga lunges at you with teeth bared to make you move out of his space. 
I would go right back to basics as someone said above, just stand in there casually with a bag of carrots. Let him remember that you're not going to hurt him. If he didn't associate you with the pain and anxiety of being 'beaten' then it will be easier to get his trust back. I wouldn't even go near him with a halter at the moment, you want to make yourself look as 'friendly' as possible. However, when he lunges at you like that, don't bolt out of the way. He has won, he's driven you out of his space, that is teaching him that aggressive behaviour is effective. Of course we don't want you getting hurt, so it's probably better for a very confident experienced person to do this, but when he lunges, lunge right back at him. Walk towards him, get into his space and make HIM move away from YOU. Once he moves away, then you can back off and mind your own business. It'll make him think twice about lunging at you.


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

That is awful, horrible, terrible, and unbelievable. I cannot wait til you catch the idiots.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I also agree with WhiteFoot. This horse has your number and he is in charge, totally!


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Why would you flick a lead rope at him while he is loose when you know he has had a bad experience with people hitting him with whips in the paddock? That does not make sense at all to me, either you were doing it for the reaction he gave so you could video tape it or you truly thought this was a friendly gesture. I don't know which is worse. 

Your body language around this horse speaks volumes, you appear terrified of him. This is not the way to be around a horse that is slightly dominant anyway as the behaviour will only worsen. When you approach with a saddle blanket, do so quietly, confidently and try not to wave it at him. It should be folded and held at your side so he can see it but not be startled by it when it flaps in the wind. If you truly are this frightened of him it sounds like you could benefit from having someone else work him through these issues.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

After all the hard work you've put in!! I'm so very sorry this has happened. I hope you find someplace for him soon.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

sarahver said:


> Why would you flick a lead rope at him while he is loose when you know he has had a bad experience with people hitting him with whips in the paddock? That does not make sense at all to me, either you were doing it for the reaction he gave so you could video tape it or you truly thought this was a friendly gesture. I don't know which is worse.



That looks to me like a gesture at self defense. The horse is already lunging at her when she flicks the lead - though she does say "she's trying to show him she won't hurt him with it"

Frankly if my horse lunged at me like that, I'd toss the lead out at him too


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Maddie  I just got home from work and saw this. Haul him down to NSW and I'll put him in one of our paddocks ASAP. 

I do agree, that you need to approach him confidently. Your confidence and assertivenss will rub off on him.

May I join the kick-*** party who are gonna woop this $&$&%^*?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Sorry Maddie just a quick unrelated point I have to make. PLEASE don't tie any horse, particularly Chinga in his present state of mind, to a float that is not attached to a car. Have seen that happen before, horse pulled back, twine didn't break and horse pulled float across a paddock going absolutely off it's rocker. VERY dangerous thing to do!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Citrus said:


> That is awful, horrible, terrible, and unbelievable.


Something sure is.


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## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

After reading Gidji's post i remembered, doesnt your family have a property in Armidale? Even though its pretty far away, you always have that option if you cant find anywhere else.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

ThatNinjaHorse said:


> After reading Gidji's post i remembered, doesnt your family have a property in Armidale? Even though its pretty far away, you always have that option if you cant find anywhere else.


Or you could just bring him to our house cause its closer :lol:


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## ThatNinjaHorse (Jul 26, 2009)

Gidji said:


> Or you could just bring him to our house cause its closer :lol:


Ah right, that would make more sense


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> _Over the past two nights people have come into Chinga's paddock. The first night, they got into my tack shed and beat him with whips. We believe he was tied up, as he didn't run away. The second night they couldn't get into the tack shed, but they came back and terrirized him once again. The tack sheds are locked, everythings as safe as possible. But now I need to find somewhere for Chinga soon as possible._


These are very serious allegations.

What makes you think someone would just randomly pick your horse to terrorize?

If they tied him up and beat him, he should have whip marks. Does he?

How do you know 'someone' came back a second night and assaulted him? 

Who is 'we'? You and who else believe these things happened?

With all the nuts in the world abuse _does_ happen, but I'm skeptical as to why they'd pick only _your_ horse to attack. Crazies usually don't stop with just one animal.

Have the police been called? If not, why? Breaking and entering is a felony and animal abuse is either a felony or misdemeanor, depending on where you live.

I don't see a 'terrified' horse in those videos; I see one who knows he can walk all over his handler.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

When did he go from this:




ChingazMyBoy said:


> _Chinga, his my OTTB. Had rearing, bolting, bucking, spinning issues._​




to this?
​



ChingazMyBoy said:


> _ I felt he was my wonder horse. <snip> But the "pony" I could do anything with, now won't even let me near him. _


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I see that you are afraid of him to. Which in a way I understand. But that horse does not need that. Every time you act afraid of him he is going to get worse. I wouldn't touch him until a trainer has worked with him and you. 

Weren't you going to sell him at one point?


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> These are very serious allegations.
> 
> What makes you think someone would just randomly pick your horse to terrorize?
> 
> ...


I have to agree with this analogy.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

I also have to agree with Speed Racer.. I don't think I'd be posting allegations on a public forum with an open investigation, which there should be if you really care about your animal and have informed the authorities.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Exactly, Always Behind!

Drama, drama, drama........


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

themacpack said:


> Drama, drama, drama........


Yes!

Someone seems to like drama!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> _He was amazing again, I felt we were on top of the world. I felt he was my wonder horse. Now his ruined. My instructors coming out as soon as possible. But the "pony" I could do anything with, now won't even let me near him. Over the past two nights people have come into Chinga's paddock. The first night, they got into my tack shed and beat him with whips. We believe he was tied up, as he didn't run away. The second night they couldn't get into the tack shed, but they came back and terrirized him once again. The tack sheds are locked, everythings as safe as possible. But now I need to find somewhere for Chinga soon as possible._
> 
> _Whats happening in the video:_
> 
> ...


My replies are above, in blue, and bolded.


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## Equus_girl (Jan 25, 2009)

That is horrible! Horses can change so quickly when they have bad experiences. It is not only that they are just aggressive. There was a mare I looked after for her owners for a while that was just so sweet. You could ride her bareback with just a halter and do anything with her. Then she started refusing to be ridden, threatening to buck and get me off. On the ground she got bad to handle with her feet and threatened to kick if I tacked her up.

She was taken back to the stables and I was asked to tack her up for my lesson. She tried to kick and bite the whole time! I had to get a stick and get the girth that way or she would have cowkicked me in the head I think. I of course was not going to ride her - and they gave me another horse. However another girl rode her and nearly got bucked off.

The owner looked at her feet after and trimmed them up to see if that was the problem. However I believe she had ulcers or something. She was fine just to be petted and led around, no aggression at all, but if she saw a saddle or rider she went bonkers! 

I sure hope you can catch whoever is doing that and stop them. Hope you can regain Chinga's trust too!


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

To me, it looks like a horse that knows he's top of the pecking order. I'm inclined to believe that it is his personality, based on other threads I've seen.

I hope you called the police about the attacks. I curious as to what the motives of such an attack would be...seems very random. I suppose it's possible some people are just crazy.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm going to come right out and say what people are hinting about. I don't believe a word of the OP. The most telling thing about the post is when the horse is described as such a wonderful boy that she could do anything on when there are several threads about how she can't get the dink to run around her in a circle without jerking her off her feet and running off.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> These are very serious allegations.
> 
> What makes you think someone would just randomly pick your horse to terrorize?
> 
> ...


I agree.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

That's terrible, but I think it's very irresponcible for you to be in a paddock with him now. Let your trainer tell you what to do, but PLEASE don't go in that paddock with him again until he's sorted out!


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> I'm going to come right out and say what people are hinting about. I don't believe a word of the OP. The most telling thing about the post is when the horse is described as such a wonderful boy that she could do anything on when there are several threads about how she can't get the dink to run around her in a circle without jerking her off her feet and running off.


Gonna come right out and say thank you to Kevin for not beating around the bush.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I agree with Kevin and Speed Racer.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

sarahver said:


> Why would you flick a lead rope at him while he is loose when you know he has had a bad experience with people hitting him with whips in the paddock? That does not make sense at all to me, either you were doing it for the reaction he gave so you could video tape it or you truly thought this was a friendly gesture. I don't know which is worse.
> 
> Your body language around this horse speaks volumes, you appear terrified of him. This is not the way to be around a horse that is slightly dominant anyway as the behaviour will only worsen. When you approach with a saddle blanket, do so quietly, confidently and try not to wave it at him. It should be folded and held at your side so he can see it but not be startled by it when it flaps in the wind. If you truly are this frightened of him it sounds like you could benefit from having someone else work him through these issues.


I didn't flick it as such what I was doing was holding it over the fence for him to sniff and check out. Thanks, I was frightened of him because this was the first day he started doing this. But my trainers coming out today and helping us so hopefully we will do well.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Sorry Maddie just a quick unrelated point I have to make. PLEASE don't tie any horse, particularly Chinga in his present state of mind, to a float that is not attached to a car. Have seen that happen before, horse pulled back, twine didn't break and horse pulled float across a paddock going absolutely off it's rocker. VERY dangerous thing to do!


Thanks  Didn't know that.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> These are very serious allegations.
> 
> What makes you think someone would just randomly pick your horse to terrorize?
> 
> ...


The police has been contacted, yes there are whip marks. First of as much as my horse has previously been a jerk and has gotten quite rude on the ground. THIS. Is NOT My Horse. Apart from he has his really bad hair cut and his brands. How do we know this is happening? Well heres the long story.

The daughter of where I adjist had a massive argument with her boyfriend and moved back in with her parents. Her boyfriend was always funny about Chinga, Chinga never liked him eaither. So.. one night they came round while we were there (Inside) and chased Chinga around with sticks. Dad went out and told them to go away, they also wrote on the side of the caravan "Hate *Insert Name*" (This family is massivly offended by stuff like this). A few other things happened, that I will not post on this forum. 

Chinga has never had a problem with me walking up to him and is quite happy for me to do so. I believe I have a video of it somewhere. We - My parents, the agistment owners.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

When I first saw this video, my immediate thought was: you are totally terrified of this horse and he is the boss. You can see it, you approach, he lays his ears back and charges and you go away. CHinga is the boss, not you.
My second question is: if you can't approach him without him attacking you or charging you, who caught and tied him up to the trailer?
My third thought is: if someone came around when I was inside the barn and was chasing my horse around, they would have been caught and held until the cops showed up. If your dad is that big, he should have chased them down and tackled them for animal abuse. Then if it happend like you said, he got tied up and attacked with whips, and there was a chance it have happened a second night, I would have been sitting all night waiting for another attack and they would have been really surprised to find me waiting. 
I think you need someone to help you with a horse that is way over your head in experience.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

She has already said that her trainer is coming out to help her. i have seen vids of her riding Chinga before. He doesn't seem like the same horse as before to me. And hell, I'd prolly run if my horse came at me like that. there's a diffrence in a dominant horse and a fearful one. I had a extremly dominant mare that would charge in the pasture, but since she wasn't scared of me she would allways turn last minute. She didn't want me dead, just gone. I have noticed this with other horses as well. Chinga isn't turning away. What I see here is a hatred of people, he doesn't want to be bullied so he's doing the only thing he knows to do. I'm sorry this happened to you, and yes it's gonna take a while for you to gain back his trust again. I wish you the best of luck.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

As much as I sort-of have to agree with everyone, all I have to say is just be careful and never make assumptions. I was always told that a horse will never run you over, they don't want to hurt you, and a lot of times I found it to be true- one horse I owned, however, was definitely NOT going to stop, she WAS going to run over me and I DID run away from her- stay safe, move slowly, and alwaysalwaysalways have a trainer or SOMEBODY else with you until you are absolutely completely confident that he isn't going to hurt you.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> She has already said that her trainer is coming out to help her. i have seen vids of her riding Chinga before. He doesn't seem like the same horse as before to me. And hell, I'd prolly run if my horse came at me like that. there's a diffrence in a dominant horse and a fearful one. I had a extremly dominant mare that would charge in the pasture, but since she wasn't scared of me she would allways turn last minute. She didn't want me dead, just gone. I have noticed this with other horses as well. Chinga isn't turning away. What I see here is a hatred of people, he doesn't want to be bullied so he's doing the only thing he knows to do. I'm sorry this happened to you, and yes it's gonna take a while for you to gain back his trust again. I wish you the best of luck.


His heart wasnt in it when he pinned his ears at her, Honestly, Im not there, and theres definitly some things you cant see in a video, but If she was confident (which im not blaming her in not being! geez, he dos look scary!) and stood her ground, i doubt he would actually hurt her, his chase was half-hearted, if he actually wanted to hurt her he would have actully chased her, not pinned his ears, did a few steps forward and then went to eat.


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## QHDragon (Mar 6, 2009)

I am on the "I see a dominant horse and a submissive handler" side of the fence here. I see a horse that knows he has your card, and I can honestly say that if I were you I would be running as fast and as far as I could when he charged at me. It's good that you are getting your trainer out there to help you.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

Does he act this way when a stranger/any person comes up to him now?


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks, my instructor is looking at him today. Then he goes to her place on Monday, once he has fully recovered from his leg/foot ingury he is going off to her trainer for some training anyway.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

roro said:


> Does he act this way when a stranger/any person comes up to him now?


His always acted funny when my friend who I adjist off comes near him.. Pins his ears back, looks like he will bite. But he has never actually done anything.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Kevin and SR say it all....please be careful.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> His always acted funny when my friend who I adjist off comes near him.. Pins his ears back, looks like he will bite. But he has never actually done anything.


Shes talking about a STRANGER....as in, could I walk up to him and he'd try to chase me off?


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

He would pin his ears back and try and bite you, unless I was there. His funny like that. Although the situation most likely would change now.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

What do you mean, "unless I was there"? How would the situation change?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> He would pin his ears back and try and bite you, unless I was there. His funny like that. Although the situation most likely would change now.


That sounds like he just has no respect for people period. Not afraid of them, he just believes he's gods gift to the whole world and is going to run it.

Ice has respect issues, but for outsiders hes an angel at least for the first few visits.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> That sounds like he just has no respect for people period. Not afraid of them, he just believes he's gods gift to the whole world and is going to run it.
> 
> Ice has respect issues, but for outsiders hes an angel at least for the first few visits.


Chinga respects few people. He doesn't fully respect me but everyday we are getting closer and closer. He respects my trainers and instructors, mum, ect.

He also has massive trust issues, when I first got him he use to stand up in the top corner of his paddock practically shaking. It takes alot for him to trust new people and I had finally earnt that trust..


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

I would do some groundwork and demand respect... But I would keep a flag with me to tell him to pi$$ off when he did one of his fake charges. But that's just me, and it would probably depend on what exactly the horse was like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

I just read yournew post, do a join up thingy! It sounds corny, but I find it works. If you do do it be gentle but firm, don't put up with his charging bull**** but dontbe a control freak, just gain respect. Remember: to gain respect, give respect, to gain trust, give trust.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

ridergirl23 said:


> I would do some groundwork and demand respect... But I would keep a flag with me to tell him to pi$$ off when he did one of his fake charges. But that's just me, and it would probably depend on what exactly the horse was like.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes! It definitely takes a LOT to be able to stand there and play chicken with an 1100 pound ****y animal coming at you, but remember horses are pretty relaxed and chilled out by nature, and I'm betting he would at the last minute chicken out.

I'm doing it on Sunday with Ice, we'll see how many buttons I can push.....


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

You guys are going to get her hurt. Let the trainer work with BOTH the horse and her. It's obvious she is afraid of the horse. What happens if he decides that he isn't going to back off?


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

ShutUpJoe said:


> You guys are going to get her hurt. Let the trainer work with BOTH the horse and her. It's obvious she is afraid of the horse. What happens if he decides that he isn't going to back off?


She's already been hurt MANY times by this horse, and no one over there seems to have a clue that it could happen again. They've been working with a trainer and two days alone and this is what happens? Maybe if he doesn't back off (which I really think he will), everyone involved will finally clue in.

It seems horrible to say, but if the big events that happened already aren't a big enough hint...maybe a big reaction to tweaking a button as little as the respect button might be.

Either way, under the observation of a trainer or not, she needs to be pushing him for something.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

justsambam08 said:


> She's already been hurt MANY times by this horse, and no one over there seems to have a clue that it could happen again. They've been working with a trainer and two days alone and this is what happens? Maybe if he doesn't back off (which I really think he will), everyone involved will finally clue in.
> 
> It seems horrible to say, but if the big events that happened already aren't a big enough hint...maybe a big reaction to tweaking a button as little as the respect button might be.
> 
> Either way, under the observation of a trainer or not, she needs to be pushing him for something.


I might be wrong, but I don't think Chinga ever made it to the trainer that was going to take him on... the OP says that the trainer broke his (her?) leg.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> I might be wrong, but I don't think Chinga ever made it to the trainer that was going to take him on... the OP says that the trainer broke his (her?) leg.


Wasn't there a woman coming out to her house for awhile? Or was that just a friend?


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

> My second question is: if you can't approach him without him attacking you or charging you, who caught and tied him up to the trailer?​




I personally think that is a very good question and one I'd love to hear the answer to. Just judging by the video, I wouldn't think you'd be able to get that close to him. Is there someone around you that is able to handle him?
​


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Wasn't there a woman coming out to her house for awhile? Or was that just a friend?


Maddy is a trainer but was coming out as a friend she had to stop working him as she had two horses of her own and had difficulty working them and Chinga on a daily bases.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

sandy2u1 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I personally think that is a very good question and one I'd love to hear the answer to. Just judging by the video, I wouldn't think you'd be able to get that close to him. Is there someone around you that is able to handle him?
> [/LEFT]


It took about an hour of calming him to be able to catch him.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

*Normally I would never say this and I'm sorry.* If you came to me for help I would say:

I know this is the last thing you want to hear. I think you are in way over your head, and because of that both you and your horse are suffering. I think that unless you, not your horse, take classes to learn how to do basic things and how to work with your horse, things are just going to get worse. 

I can clearly see someone who is afraid of her horse, which is probably the root of all your problems. Even if someone beat Gunther with a thorn bush and a club he wouldn't react like Chinga did. I'm guessing that this isn't the first time he has done this. 

I really, really, hate to see a person and a horse like this. It makes it not fun for the rider or the horse. Maybe you should sell him? :/ I KNOWKNOW this isn't what you want to hear. I *love* hearing about your progress and your love of him to death, however I think it would be best if you found another horse. It isn't a crime, it's the right thing to do. You remind me of me when I was younger, right down to your words of choice. 

If I could I would fly down and help you! But I can't

I think Chinga would be a challenge for even the most experienced horse person, no doubt. Let alone for one who is still learning? He is a very hot headed horse who is willing to take full advantage of you. Just from his attitude in that 3min? vid I would not want him. I would say get rid of him asap.

I HATE seeing you post things like this, it breaks my heart. Even though I don't post much I do read alot of your threads and to me you're like a little sister. And coming from big sister I don't want you to go through this.

:-( I just feel like you have used all of your resources and it's time. Get a horse that is worth the money you're putting into Chinga, one that is trustworthy and you can build a great relationship with.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

White Foot said:


> *Normally I would never say this and I'm sorry.* If you came to me for help I would say:
> 
> I know this is the last thing you want to hear. I think you are in way over your head, and because of that both you and your horse are suffering. I think that unless you, not your horse, take classes to learn how to do basic things and how to work with your horse, things are just going to get worse.
> 
> ...


Sadly I can't sell him. He literally is the only thing holding me together. We're giving him one more go, his got one more chance (With my instructors trainer, who I bet will be able to get him under control).


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

nevermind


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## savvylover112 (Jul 17, 2009)

If you absoloutly *CAN'T* sell him then a suggestion is to put him down if he is that bad and if he is behaving like this he is not a perfectly good horse. If you are scared of him he is dangerous. He *WILL* hurt you eventually.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Well, my reply got ignored, and my advice, when we talked in chat, is pretty much what White Foot said. Good luck, ChingazMyBoy, I am going to stick with my last reply in one of your other threads.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> Sadly I can't sell him. He literally is the only thing holding me together.


Ridiculous. No matter what you are going through (I've read your other threads), you are over your head with this horse. Sell him and get attached to a horse that will build your confidence not have you asking for advise and not taking it. If you want realistic suggestions and help - you already got it, take it. You can't expect pity if you refuse to take advise from the more knowledgeable people here.


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## dantexeventer (Jul 11, 2009)

I don't understand why you continue to post these threads. I think I've read 15 now that, after 8+ pages of advice, culminate in you still refusing to change anything. It's frustrating for the knowledgable people here who waste their valuable time trying to help you.
What has been said is correct. You need to sell this horse. Yeah, it sucks. I KNOW, I've been there. My first horse was a cheapo, barely-trained guy who had some serious psychological issues. I spent three years working with that horse - getting hurt, not having any fun, and finally ended up rehoming him. I'm an eventer, and he simply couldn't handle the pressure. Now he's living in a big field with a buddy, ridden like, twice a week in a bitless bridle and Aussie saddle, and basically just pampered. He loves it, his owner loves him, and they have FUN. 
I had to accept that. Yeah, I spent a few days bawling my eyes out over selling him. But what helped me was immediately having something to fill the void - I had found an experienced eventer to lease for the competition season, and she arrived a day or two after Danny left. So I had something to keep me occupied. After she left, I was given a phenomenal horse, and I'm more attached to him than I could ever have imagined - and you know what? I can get on him, school 2nd level dressage, pop around a 3'3 course, do whatever, because I don't have to worry about what crazy stuff he'll pull!
Saying your horse is 'the only thing holding you together' is whiny and quite honestly, you come off as an attention seeking emo kid. Suck it up, grow a pair, and be a horseman - do what's right for this horse and find something more appropriate so that YOU can learn and grow. I spent three years not improving at all, and now that I have a great horse, I improve exponentially by the day. You need to do the same, and you also need a huge attitude adjustment. You're what, 13? At 13 everyone seems to think the sun shines out of their back side and they're god's gift to horse training. It doesn't, and you're not. Learn to learn.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *ChingazMyBoy*
> _Sadly I can't sell him. He literally is the only thing holding me together._


Is that fair to HIM, though? If you truly love the horse as you say you do, wouldn't you want what is best for HIM? It isn't about YOU at this point. It isn't his job to hold you together - it is YOUR job to do what is best for your horse and, frankly, you aren't it. The two of you are in a toxic relationship and someone is going to get hurt (as it is now, you are both suffering).


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Honestly, I think all of your 10+ threads on Chinga's attitude change are ridiculous. You got all the answers you need in the first *two or three*, why do you need to keep changing your wording a little each time and posting for the SAME ANSWERS you know you will get every time you make a new thread? I can't help but notice you dodge everything in this thread that points to irresponsibility on your part. The truth of the matter is, *one day one of the two of you is going to get seriously hurt. *As mean as this sounds, I can tell you very few people on this forum will be posting sympathetically.

I *have* a bad horse. He kicks, he bites, he has no ground manners, and he's 1,700 lbs. I could have him sent to a trainer's for a few months to turn him into a rideable horse for my mom, but why would we when we can sell him and get a horse that has a good disposition? You can train a horse all you want, but his underlying disposition will not change with all the trainers in the world. I've accepted that, and that's why I'm looking to rehome him to someone who has the time and experience to put up with his crap and retrain him.

All we're asking is that you sell him already. It's cruel to him to keep him somewhere where he's not understood, and one (or both) of you is going to get seriously hurt.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

The past 5 or 6 replies are completely correct. I just didn't want to waste the effort typing all of that.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

With all the ups and down Chinga seems to be experiencing through reading your posts, he's either psychologically messed up, OR we're not getting the full story. I lean more towards us not getting the full story. I feel that every one of your posts are attention seeking, and that you're looking for a pity party. At this point I'm not even going to say get some training. What you fail again and again to understand is that HE IS TOO MUCH HORSE FOR YOU. And all the training in the world for him is not going to fix YOUR faults. 

When I got Zeus a year ago I didn't think much of his rushing, ignoring my aids, and generally being a bully. I got to a point where I stopped cantering him, because I couldn't rate him and keep him in line. You know what I did? I switched my focus to ME. I stopped caring about his head, I stopped caring about looking pretty and I got my butt to a good, respected dressage trainer. A year later we've come so far. We still have a long way to go before I could fulfill my long term goal of doing some low level eventing, but we're well on our way.

At some point you passed the point of no return. Your horse does not change overnight like you think he does. You have good days and bad days, because of YOU. Now, because you've failed to take any kind of advice or admit that you're in over your head (for long anyway) ALL you're having is bad days.

If what you said happened to him really happened, that's terrible. But it just expanded an issue that was there from the beginning.

*SELL Chinga. Get a REAL trainer (for you!) and get a SAFE horse.*


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

As terrible as this is, I think his overnight atttude change just might get the point through to you that he's too much for you


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> As terrible as this is, I think his overnight atttude change just might get the point through to you that he's too much for you


Exactly what I said earlier. Maybe he'll hurt her bad enough this time that her parents will actually do some parenting. Horrible, but true.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Exactly what I said earlier. Maybe he'll hurt her bad enough this time that her parents will actually do some parenting. Horrible, but true.


Couldn't agree more; I was just too chicken to say it.

There had to be someone (an irresponsible parent, perhaps?) filming this video


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I think you need to grow up and realize this horse is way way to much for you. You post over and over about Chinga and all the issues he has, yet you keep saying I need to keep him. Why? Why keep a horse that is obviously dangerous to you, whether its because someone beat him with a whip, or you are so frightened of him, he knows it and can challenge you and you walk away.
Some of your stories don't make sense, you can't catch him, he chases you, but after an hour he calms down enough to tie him to a trailer, then you can't approach him, you have to sneak up on him waving a blanket in front of you like a matador waving a red flag. I have never walked up to any horse holding a blanket like a shield, why would you do that? Who told you to approach him like that? When he is loose and you try to walk up to him, he charges. You take a rope and wave it gently in front of him to show him it won't hurt, he charges......... 
I think you need to realize that he is not the horse for you , sell him and get a decent horse that you can control and is not dangerous and Chinga needs to go to someone who is not afraid of him... You are never going to be able to ride this horse safely, and I can't understand for the life of me, why your parents are letting you continue on with a dangerous horse. 
One question I have, if Chinga got hurt badly and you had to take an hour to calm him down enough to catch him, how is a vet ever going to treat him? He could be seriously hurt and nobody could approach him. To me that is just crazy. I can tell you, working for a vet, if someone brought a horse, or we made a ranch call , and a horse behaved like that, most vets would not treat it until it was in a chute or stocks. How can you feel good about a horse that is so dangerous that you or him or somebody could be seriously injured???


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Chinga left for my instructors today, we're looking at a week before he goes to the trainers. My instructor is starting ground work respect with him.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

make sure YOU work with the trainer too, because if you dont learn to keep that respect he WILL go back to how he is now.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Yeah I will, I'll be making it out once or twice a week.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Maddie I'm glad you've sent him to the trainers. But the problem is, a trainer is far more experienced than what you are, and Chinga will pick up on that. If the trainer doesn't back down when Chinga charges, and holds his ground, and really gets it into Chinga's head that the trainer is the boss and CHinga is not to lay so much as a hair on him then that's great, and Chinga may well behave himself for you for a short period of time. But then, as happens when you get a new horse, it starts pushing the boundaries again. And the second you show the slightest weakness towards him, exactly the same process will happen again, and we'll be in for another 10 pages of the same thread as this. 

You may want to fight me tooth and claw for saying this, but Chinga is NOT holding you together. Is is causing you immense stress and grief. What WILL hold you together, is a nice, placid horse that loves company and will be your best mate, that you can hop on any time and not have to worry that you're going to get thrown. THAT is a horse that will hold you together.
Maddie so many of us on this forum have already been where you have. Having the horse that is just way above our heads. I have and I am not ashamed in the slightest to admit that I sold that horse. She almost killed me, I was 14 years old, she went for a bronc session and slammed me into a solid steel gate, fell on top of me then proceeded to try and kick me while I was down. Because I put my leg on her and she was in season. And I was absolutely **** scared of that horse afterwards, I wasn't able to walk for 2 weeks, couldn't ride for nearly 2 months and I was terrified. She was lovely on the ground, a real smoocher, and I said the same as you "She's my best friend, I love her and she keeps me together". Well you know what, Sails is now with a talented event rider and doing fantastically, I am a confident rider and now don't have a qualm about getting on breakers and 'problem' horses to sort out. Doesn't bother me at all. If I had kept Sails, I'd say that I would continue to be a nervous wreck around horses, with no confidence in my own abilities and feeling miserable as all hell seeing my friends having fun on their quiet and willing horses. Even if Sails never went through that bucking episode again, I suspect I would ALWAYS have that feeling of nerves on her, and a rider who fears his/her horse enough to not demand from them, is not a rider at all. You will not get anywhere with riding if you have that niggling fear constantly pulling at you, restricting you from doing things. It took me nearly a year to get the confidence to put my leg on a horse to send them forward without hanging off the reins for dear life. 
You don't want to go there Maddie, you could be a very good young rider if you put your mind to it, but Chinga is not the horse that will get you there. They say things happen for a reason, and my god, that is the most hounest statement I have heard. At the time, when things are happening, they seem horrible and devastating and you feel like you'll never be happy again. But I tell you, years, maybe even just weeks or months down the track, you will realise that you made the right decision, you will feel a stronger person for it and be able to move on in life. 

Please Maddie, you have to realise that Chinga is not a suitable horse for you. Send him to the trainer, get him going to a reasonable standard, then sell him on as an experienced riders horse, maybe as an eventing prospect. Yes, you will bawl your eyes out and think that you have done the wrong thing, but then, when you find 'the' horse, you will look back and realise that you have taken charge of the direction your life is going, decided to be the 'strong' person and really taken control of where you're going.

Coming onto a forum posting multitudes of threads about how perfect and beautiful your horse is, then a day later coming back saying he's nasty and scary, is not going to help you. A forum does NOT send you on your journey through life, it does not help you take control of your life and push yourself through it. In the end, NO BODY can help us, no one can make decisions for us. We are all on this world as individuals and nobody else can help us. They can assist us on our way and try to point us in the right path, as we on this forum are trying to do for you Maddie, but in the end, ultimately it is ourself as an individual who has to help themselves. I used to do the same as you, go crying to everybody I possible could to help me, I felt like I couldn't possible do things on my own and get past it, but when I never got that help I wanted, that IMPOSSIBLE help, I realised that it's every person for him/herself and if I wanted to improve my life and my mental state, I would have to take control and do it on my own. 
And now, I haven't looked back, I am a happy, loud and quite charismatic person, get my hands dirty when I can and just lunge at every opportunity with both hands open. A huge change from the withdrawn, nervous wreck I was only a year or two ago. 

Maddie, Help yourself and you will feel better for it. It is your decision whether you sell Chinga or not, we cannot decide for you. We have simply given you our opinions and the matter and now we can only sit back and wait to hear the next installment. Whether that is going to make us cringe because you haven't done the 'right' thing, or whether we smile and pat you on the back for taking a step in the right direction, we'll still support you.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

Please, please read Kayty's post, Maddie. I know you don't want to hear it, but I think the post expresses the views of many members on here. All we want is to see a young girl brighten up and be safe with a good horse. You only have one life, and this isn't the way to spend it.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Maddie I'm glad you've sent him to the trainers. But the problem is, a trainer is far more experienced than what you are, and Chinga will pick up on that. If the trainer doesn't back down when Chinga charges, and holds his ground, and really gets it into Chinga's head that the trainer is the boss and CHinga is not to lay so much as a hair on him then that's great, and Chinga may well behave himself for you for a short period of time. But then, as happens when you get a new horse, it starts pushing the boundaries again. And the second you show the slightest weakness towards him, exactly the same process will happen again, and we'll be in for another 10 pages of the same thread as this.
> 
> You may want to fight me tooth and claw for saying this, but Chinga is NOT holding you together. Is is causing you immense stress and grief. What WILL hold you together, is a nice, placid horse that loves company and will be your best mate, that you can hop on any time and not have to worry that you're going to get thrown. THAT is a horse that will hold you together.
> Maddie so many of us on this forum have already been where you have. Having the horse that is just way above our heads. I have and I am not ashamed in the slightest to admit that I sold that horse. She almost killed me, I was 14 years old, she went for a bronc session and slammed me into a solid steel gate, fell on top of me then proceeded to try and kick me while I was down. Because I put my leg on her and she was in season. And I was absolutely **** scared of that horse afterwards, I wasn't able to walk for 2 weeks, couldn't ride for nearly 2 months and I was terrified. She was lovely on the ground, a real smoocher, and I said the same as you "She's my best friend, I love her and she keeps me together". Well you know what, Sails is now with a talented event rider and doing fantastically, I am a confident rider and now don't have a qualm about getting on breakers and 'problem' horses to sort out. Doesn't bother me at all. If I had kept Sails, I'd say that I would continue to be a nervous wreck around horses, with no confidence in my own abilities and feeling miserable as all hell seeing my friends having fun on their quiet and willing horses. Even if Sails never went through that bucking episode again, I suspect I would ALWAYS have that feeling of nerves on her, and a rider who fears his/her horse enough to not demand from them, is not a rider at all. You will not get anywhere with riding if you have that niggling fear constantly pulling at you, restricting you from doing things. It took me nearly a year to get the confidence to put my leg on a horse to send them forward without hanging off the reins for dear life.
> ...


 
Thanks for your advice but I would really like to have a trainer working with him day in day out for 90 days before I make a disision. The plan is that once he is looking 100% sound (Around a week) my instructor will send him to her trainer. Who delt with Billy, who was feral. Reared, kicked, bucked, biting, pig rooting, no ground manners what so ever. After 90 days of work with this trainer and my instructor continuing his work (What I will be doing, supervised by the trainer). Billy is the most amazing school horse ever, I want Chinga to have that chance. With a trainer who has the time, skills and experiance to get him there. He can only come out better, there is nothing to loose in this. The transition from Chinga being worked with the trainer, to me. Will not be rushed, this trainer is responsible, experianced, ect. I know I won't be put back into work with Chinga to early and in all seriousness. If he's to "big" for me at the end of his training then the trainer will have no second thoughts about telling me to sell him. THAT I will listen to, when Chinga's had a real chance.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

The problem is that Chinga has had too many chances already. He has obviously made you scared of him and unfortunately you can sing his praises from the rooftops all you like, but even after 90 days of training you are still going to be scared of him. He WILL know this. 

It would be better for both you and Chinga if he went to someone who wasn't going to run away every time he throws a tantrum. Chinga deserves to have a productive & positive life and I honestly don't think he is going to get it while he is with you.

Unfortunately I also know that this is the same advice you have received over and over again and I know you won't take it. I just wish that Chinga wasn't the one who had to suffer for it.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Stop you guys, she's not listening.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

If you won't do it for us, or for yourself, do it fo Chinga. He wants a home where he can be understood! He wants it bad! Let him have a good life with a person who knows his quirks and can fix them.....do it for your horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

If any one who actually knows my horse thought he was "suffering" I would know about it. For those who are interested, he is settling in well at my instructors already.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm not talking about physical suffering and you know it.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

His not suffering in any way. And EVERYONE who actually knows my horse and I knows it. Who's actually worked this horse, who's actually ridden this horse.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

You're kidding? So he's lunging at you in the vid for fun right? He's not suffering, he just feels like having some fun.

Mm hm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Thats not suffering, thats needing someone to show him, to teach him, to understand him. Hence why he is going to a trainer. Yes, I will fight for my horse, because I was taught to fight for what I love and no matter how hard it gets to never give up. I'm not giving up. I'm getting help..


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

guys you cant try to guilt her ino it by saying the hrose is suffering, thats jsut not right. If hes a very dominant hrose (which i have no doubt in my mind her is!) then hes extremely happy right now, what dominant horse doesnt want a little peerson they can shove around? he gets fed, watered, and left alone, and if he isnt left alone, he can just pin his ears and lunge and then he WILL be left alone. I honestly cant iagine him being unhappy... but maybe im missing something


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

If his behaviour is as you have described it in you numerous posts he IS suffering. He is screaming at you that he's suffering, you're just not listening. 

I will not get in to an argument with you, I am just urging you to do the right thing for your horse.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Allright You guys this isnt worth arguing over. If she wount take your advice, aguing is not going to change her mind. She is obviously doing what she feels is right. Atleast she has a trainer. I know meny of you have seen people come through here and totaly ignore advice and think they can do any thing because they are the almighty horse person(NOT!) So just let it go. 

Here is my advice wether you want it or not. You need to post pictured of these so called whip marks so you can prove that this really happend. I dont believe it because you have no proof (no the vid doesnt prove any thing to me) Then start a new thread about his recovery (mental and physical). you can listen to me or just blow me off thats your choise just remember that every one here cares about you and Chinga, there not trying to be mean.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Ridergirl, a dominant horse does not actually WANT to be the boss. Being the boss means they have to call all the shots, and when put in a confronting situation, the dominant horse has to take charge of the situation. Most horses tend to be far happier in themselves when they know where they stand. And I don't think Chinga is entirely sure where he stands. Yes he's a dominant aggressive type of horse, but I think it's very much a show, that is to hide the confusion he is feeling. Horses will react in one of two ways, fight or flight. And Chinga appears to react to pressure and confusion with 'fight'. 
He definitely needs to be dominated and shown that people are not going to put him in a situation where he will be hurt. He does not have this at the moment, as Maddie is just not assertive enough to show him this, so he feels as though he needs to be the dominant one, because no one else is. 
This horse isn't 'suffering' per say, but to allow him to continue on as he is would be very destructive to his mind and he certainly has the ability to turn into 'suffering' horse. 
Maddie, I'm glad you're sending him to a trainer for 90 days and are getting involved in the process. I was under the impression that it was only going to be a short stint at the trainers like last time. If the trainer is willing to work with you to help overcome your own fears, it may well be the break that Chinga needs. But you HAVE to always keep in mind that just because he does well at the trainers and comes back all lovely, does not mean he won't turn on you again. He seems to be the type of horse that is always going to be pushing, and if you don't keep on top of that and nip it in the bud each and every time he tries it on with you, you will end up with him right back at the start and the money at the trainers will have been wasted.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Yes, a dominant horse is often only dominant because he fears that if he isn't dominant he'll be pushed around.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

HowClever said:


> If his behaviour is as you have described it in you numerous posts he IS suffering. He is screaming at you that he's suffering, you're just not listening.
> 
> I will not get in to an argument with you, I am just urging you to do the right thing for your horse.


Sending him to a trainer is the right thing and everyone whos ever ridden, or done anything with him knows it.

Look at this horse and tell me his not happy, tell me he doesn't love doing what I do with him. Even when his scared, even when he doesn't understand he sill puts 100% in for his rider. Even when I mess up our striding into a jump, he'll still take a massive long spot to save us, even when my posistions crap he'll still push threw. Every time I fall he stops, even when we were in a 300 acer paddock, he could have ran if he didn't like what we were doing. AND he knew it :























Sure, they are only a few pictures. But a picture means 1 000 words. I'll straight out admit it MOST of Chinga's riding problems and ground manners are my fault. Because I've never had the confidence to deal with him or the experianced. But I took a stand. His going to the trainers, I'm taking lessons and ONE day, we'll make that perfect team. No matter how long it takes, I'm not giving up. We will get there.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Maddie, I don't know what to say. You won't listen to anyone, and its just really irresponsible. _This horse isn't holding you together. He's causing you more stress, and its just not right._

Even if you do send him to the trainers, Chinga will push the boundaries when he comes back and as soon as he breaks one, he'll just go back to being the same horse.

Believe me, I've been there. I went through this stage with Ricky, but the only reason why I'm keeping him is that I'm capable with him. I went through the whole aggression stage, but from the videos I've seen you are not confident enough to deal with these problems. The relationship with a horse should be 51% (you), 49% (horse) but Chinga is like 95% and you're 5%.

I think you just need to suck it up. You're 13, they'll be plenty more horses in your life.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

myhorsesonador said:


> Allright You guys this isnt worth arguing over. If she wount take your advice, aguing is not going to change her mind. She is obviously doing what she feels is right. Atleast she has a trainer. I know meny of you have seen people come through here and totaly ignore advice and think they can do any thing because they are the almighty horse person(NOT!) So just let it go.
> 
> Here is my advice wether you want it or not. You need to post pictured of these so called whip marks so you can prove that this really happend. I dont believe it because you have no proof (no the vid doesnt prove any thing to me) Then start a new thread about his recovery (mental and physical). you can listen to me or just blow me off thats your choise just remember that every one here cares about you and Chinga, there not trying to be mean.


I will attempt to get photos. But as you may have noticed I haven't upload photos lately as my camera is getting fixed. But I will attempt to use my phone to do it, but sadly the quality isn't that great. I'll see how I go though. I'll think about making a thread about Chinga's recovery. Although most likely I'll just put it in my diary and for those who want to read it they can.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> Sending him to a trainer is the right thing and everyone whos ever ridden, or done anything with him knows it.
> 
> Look at this horse and tell me his not happy, tell me he doesn't love doing what I do with him. Even when his scared, even when he doesn't understand he sill puts 100% in for his rider.* Even when I mess up our striding into a jump, he'll still take a massive long spot to save us,* even when my posistions crap he'll still push threw. Every time I fall he stops, even when we were in a 300 acer paddock, he could have ran if he didn't like what we were doing. AND he knew it
> 
> ...


*He does that to save himself. Its just natural preservation. If you were a pony, you'd lengthen your stride because its a better alternative than running into a jump. He's not doing it for you. You need to seriously stop thinking like a ****y little girl, and use your brain.*


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Ridergirl, a dominant horse does not actually WANT to be the boss. Being the boss means they have to call all the shots, and when put in a confronting situation, the dominant horse has to take charge of the situation. Most horses tend to be far happier in themselves when they know where they stand. And I don't think Chinga is entirely sure where he stands. Yes he's a dominant aggressive type of horse, but I think it's very much a show, that is to hide the confusion he is feeling. Horses will react in one of two ways, fight or flight. And Chinga appears to react to pressure and confusion with 'fight'.
> He definitely needs to be dominated and shown that people are not going to put him in a situation where he will be hurt. He does not have this at the moment, as Maddie is just not assertive enough to show him this, so he feels as though he needs to be the dominant one, because no one else is.
> This horse isn't 'suffering' per say, but to allow him to continue on as he is would be very destructive to his mind and he certainly has the ability to turn into 'suffering' horse.
> Maddie, I'm glad you're sending him to a trainer for 90 days and are getting involved in the process. I was under the impression that it was only going to be a short stint at the trainers like last time. If the trainer is willing to work with you to help overcome your own fears, it may well be the break that Chinga needs. But you HAVE to always keep in mind that just because he does well at the trainers and comes back all lovely, does not mean he won't turn on you again. He seems to be the type of horse that is always going to be pushing, and if you don't keep on top of that and nip it in the bud each and every time he tries it on with you, you will end up with him right back at the start and the money at the trainers will have been wasted.


I'm not sure if I should say thank you or not. But on the topic of him coming home and turning back into.. this. It won't happen. Because my instructor has sent so many horses to this trainer I am lucky, for two years after his training is ofically finished the trainer will work Chinga once a month and give me lessons on him once a week.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Gidji said:


> *He does that to save himself. Its just natural preservation. If you were a pony, you'd lengthen your stride because its a better alternative than running into a jump. He's not doing it for you. You need to seriously stop thinking like a ****y little girl, and use your brain.*


And everything else his done for me?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Maddy, you're thirteen. How old are the majority of these posters? Adults. Experienced adults who know what they're talking about. If you don't want to hear what they have to say, stop posting threads like these.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Maddie, what has that horse done for you? Has he ran done to the shops and bought you milk? Chinga isn't human Maddie.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Thats where you don't get it. Horses don't think like us. When he got you over the jump, it was self-preservation. He didn't say "oh no if I don't lengthen my stride maddy will fall"....he's a horse, not a human
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

When I took my worst fall one day. I was alone. I lay there for two hours, who stood by my side. Who protected me. Chinga. I know its stupid but honestly think about it. There was plenty of good grass to eat, why did he stand by me that whole time. Because he cared.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

No, because he was trained not to run away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Ok Maddie, look you're not going to take a scrap of advice from anyone, that much is very clear. I've tried to support you but also give you an adult perspective on what's going on, and that's not good enough for you. 
Would you prefer me to tell you that 'from the horses I've seen come back from trainers to their owners, they ALL act beautifully forever and every and pop rainbows and butterflies out of their bottoms when they gallop'. I myself have worked on horses for people who have asked me to do so, Have got those horses going softly under saddle and resolved the issues the owner was having. Then I'll go back and check up on them a couple of weeks later, and sure enough, I can see the problem starting all over again. 

So Maddie, sorry but you're clearly not going to listen to anything anyone says, don't try to get me onside on facebook from now on, I only want to hear from you if you've actually begun to take on board some of what people have tried to help you with. I don't have the time to spend on a hopeless case, a young girl that wants help but doesn't know how to take it. Once you grow up a little, you'll realise just how you come across.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

No, he wasn't trained not to run away..


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Hon, he is a horse. Maybe you just have too much emotionally invested in an animal that is too much for you. You sound like an abused woman sticking up for her pos husband because he doesnt beat her ALL of the time.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> When I took my worst fall one day. I was alone. I lay there for two hours, who stood by my side. Who protected me. Chinga. I know its stupid but honestly think about it. There was plenty of good grass to eat, why did he stand by me that whole time. Because he cared.


Horses are herd animals. Most of them will either stay with their owner, or take off and find someone to be with. They hate being on their own. On their own they are threatened, so staying with you was probably the safest thing to do Chinga thought if there were no other horses or people in the vicinity. 
I bet if there was another horse nearby he would have taken off with that horse and left you behind.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

oh you guys, just let her be, ALL the threads about chinga end up that way, if it just gets worse after the trainers THEN rip her apart... but just leave her alone for godsake you know shes not going to take your advice, this topic on chinga has been argued to DEATH, just let give it a rest, really guys, YES it is dangorous for her, but shes going to a trainers, and Im pretty sure a trainer isnt going to let her get hurt while hes there, but, ugh theres just no point to it anymore!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I'm through argueing and on to pleading. Wouldn't you rather Chinga be in a place where he's happy and understood, while you buy a very well trained horse who won't turn on you or change attitudes by the day? Enough of this "he's my horse and I'll get him through whatever we need to get through" stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Ok Maddie, look you're not going to take a scrap of advice from anyone, that much is very clear. I've tried to support you but also give you an adult perspective on what's going on, and that's not good enough for you.
> Would you prefer me to tell you that 'from the horses I've seen come back from trainers to their owners, they ALL act beautifully forever and every and pop rainbows and butterflies out of their bottoms when they gallop'. I myself have worked on horses for people who have asked me to do so, Have got those horses going softly under saddle and resolved the issues the owner was having. Then I'll go back and check up on them a couple of weeks later, and sure enough, I can see the problem starting all over again.
> 
> So Maddie, sorry but you're clearly not going to listen to anything anyone says, don't try to get me onside on facebook from now on, I only want to hear from you if you've actually begun to take on board some of what people have tried to help you with. I don't have the time to spend on a hopeless case, a young girl that wants help but doesn't know how to take it. Once you grow up a little, you'll realise just how you come across.


 
Did you even read what I wrote? That I've got a trainer thats with us for the next two years, or longer if needed. I'm not afraid to admit my horse is to big for me, I'm not afraid to admit my position needs work. I'm not afraid to admit that at the moment my horse is the wrong horse for me. But when he gets back and he's not better after all the work thats been put into him then I will admit that I or a VERY GOOD TRAINER couldn't get Chinga and I to become a good and well fitted team. Then I will admit I've screwed up.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

ridergirl23 said:


> oh you guys, just let her be, ALL the threads about chinga end up that way, if it just gets worse after the trainers THEN rip her apart... but just leave her alone for godsake you know shes not going to take your advice, this topic on chinga has been argued to DEATH, just let give it a rest, really guys, YES it is dangorous for her, but shes going to a trainers, and *Im pretty sure a trainer isnt going to let her get hurt while hes there*, but, ugh theres just no point to it anymore!


Whats highlighted is what I've been trying to say the whole time.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Horses are herd animals. Most of them will either stay with their owner, or take off and find someone to be with. They hate being on their own. On their own they are threatened, so staying with you was probably the safest thing to do Chinga thought if there were no other horses or people in the vicinity.
> I bet if there was another horse nearby he would have taken off with that horse and left you behind.


There was another horse in the same yard, his "best friend".. the same horse he use to be buddy sour towards.


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## Gidji (Dec 19, 2008)

Maddie, why do you want to keep this horse? Answer this honestly.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Its partly irelevent but. Can I point out that we've gone from 

This:









To This:


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Yes...? I see a horse who's form over jumps has improved a little. Nothing more. Answer Gidji's question please
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> Hon, he is a horse. Maybe you just have too much emotionally invested in an animal that is too much for you. You sound like an abused woman sticking up for her pos husband because he doesnt beat her ALL of the time.


That's exactly what I was thinking... she's in an abusive situation with a man, and she thinks she can change him, no matter how much he hurts her, and how much everyone tells her that she needs to get away. 

I don't understand why you wouldn't want a horse that is a pleasure to work with. You aren't advancing your skills at all, and it's not fun for you. There's no benefit to owning this horse at all.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Im honestly curious, are you keeping him just so you can say you trained a horse? That's what it sure sounds like
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

I used to brake horses all the time. They improved so much over the few months that I worked with them. I loved them very much and guess what they were sold I moved on I was sad but I did what was best for them not what was best for me. I know you love him very much but all these threads about you problems with him are getting silly. It seems like your just looking for a atention. Please think about what your posting. I know its hard.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

Gidji said:


> Maddie, why do you want to keep this horse? Answer this honestly.


Honestly over all I don't know, because I've been threw hell and back and his the only friend thats been there threw it all. Because a few months back we lost my auntys horse. Who was very special to me and Chinga reminds me of him. Because I love him, his my first horse. I've had him for just over a year now and he means the world to me. Also when we do well (Like Cross Country) I could never dream of a better horse, he's taught me so much and he's still got so much to teach me. Every horse I've ridden and cared for in my life, I've never felt like they've been a friend where as with Chinga he is. Its complicated and I know I'm so attached to him because his my first horse.

But I've given up on everything I've done. Achieved nothing. I've never felt proud of myself, apart from when I'm on Chinga then I can't help but smile. Because I feel proud of US. This may sound stupid, and it didn't give me the answer I wanted it to give me but yeah.

For three years I begged my parents for a horse, you ask Jalah whos seen me with this horse, who's been there when I cry, who's been part of my inspiration to keep going and she will tell you how far we've come and she knows me as a person and knows I will never give up. I admit it, I only take the advice I want. But hey, every peice of advice I've taken gets Chinga and I closer and closer to getting somewhere. My instructor of all people was most dissappointed in me when I first got Chinga, for 6 months she didn't like the idea. But now when we ride her lessons. Shes proud. I'm proud. I keep Chinga because his taken me so far, as stupid as it sounds green horses teach you so much. Chinga taught dad to not be afraid. Dad was kicked by a horse and wouldn't even touch one, dads amazing with Chinga. I know none of that made sence and sounded stupid. But Chinga's what I live for.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Im honestly curious, are you keeping him just so you can say you trained a horse? That's what it sure sounds like
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope. I couldn't really care if I trained him or not. I'm not the one training him anyway.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

OK, as a fellow OTTB owner, I'm going to level with you. I know Kayty is as well, and if she reads this she'll probably agree with me. These guys like to have a job. They like to have purpose, not just sit around and get fat in a pasture somewhere. I LOVED riding Ice, because he was so eager to please and just incredibly willing to do whatever I asked of him the best way that he knew how. Thats more or less the reason I still continue working with him, because I do believe that he can be brought back with a little bit of pushing, I did it once and I can do it again. I'm willing to seek help if necessary, but I always am going to try it first on my own. I do have a little bit more experience with horses than you, I'm also older and know when I have to suck it up and just let it go. Thats why Ice is also for sale.

Your jumping success has NOTHING to do with whether he likes you or not, or your "bond", because he probably doesn't give a crap about you. I know that Ice just puts up with me, which as it appears Chinga at this point does not do to you. Your success has 100% to do with the fact that being ridden is the one time where Chinga is confident and knows what is expected of him--if you send him over jumps, he'll go over jumps because that is what he has been _trained to do_, listen to his rider above all else_. _Its why race horses when they get tired don't give up and fall back, they keep going because they were trained to listen to the jockey who's spurring him on with a crop and his seat position.

Ice is the first horse I could really call my own, and I want the best for him, whatever that means. I know that I may not be the perfect home he deserves, but with a little bit of work I could be pretty bang up. If something comes along thats better for him in the long run, where he will be used to his full potential and be happy, by all means I'll trailer him there myself. It will be hard but I love him enough to give him to someone else. 

Unfortunately our horses don't give a crap if we love them or not. If they did I'm pretty sure HAF would not have had to sell Chance because even with Lyme disease and past abuse, she would have understood how much time and effort that girl put into her. Our horses would not bolt, buck us off, or kick out at us because they would understand that they make us happy. But horses are not people.


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> Honestly over all I don't know, because I've been threw hell and back and his the only friend thats been there threw it all. Because a few months back we lost my auntys horse. Who was very special to me and Chinga reminds me of him. Because I love him, his my first horse. I've had him for just over a year now and he means the world to me. Also when we do well (Like Cross Country) I could never dream of a better horse, he's taught me so much and he's still got so much to teach me. Every horse I've ridden and cared for in my life, I've never felt like they've been a friend where as with Chinga he is. Its complicated and I know I'm so attached to him because his my first horse.
> 
> But I've given up on everything I've done. Achieved nothing. I've never felt proud of myself, apart from when I'm on Chinga then I can't help but smile. Because I feel proud of US. This may sound stupid, and it didn't give me the answer I wanted it to give me but yeah.
> 
> For three years I begged my parents for a horse, you ask Jalah whos seen me with this horse, who's been there when I cry, who's been part of my inspiration to keep going and she will tell you how far we've come and she knows me as a person and knows I will never give up. I admit it, I only take the advice I want. But hey, every peice of advice I've taken gets Chinga and I closer and closer to getting somewhere. My instructor of all people was most dissappointed in me when I first got Chinga, for 6 months she didn't like the idea. But now when we ride her lessons. Shes proud. I'm proud. I keep Chinga because his taken me so far, as stupid as it sounds green horses teach you so much. Chinga taught dad to not be afraid. Dad was kicked by a horse and wouldn't even touch one, dads amazing with Chinga. I know none of that made sence and sounded stupid. But Chinga's what I live for.


 If your horse is waht you live for you have a very pathetic life. Its ok to love your horse but what about your friends? Do you care about them? You make it sound like he is all care about.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

100% agree with JSB. He wants a purpose, and he doesn't have one right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> OK, as a fellow OTTB owner, I'm going to level with you. I know Kayty is as well, and if she reads this she'll probably agree with me. These guys like to have a job. They like to have purpose, not just sit around and get fat in a pasture somewhere. I LOVED riding Ice, because he was so eager to please and just incredibly willing to do whatever I asked of him the best way that he knew how. Thats more or less the reason I still continue working with him, because I do believe that he can be brought back with a little bit of pushing, I did it once and I can do it again. I'm willing to seek help if necessary, but I always am going to try it first on my own. I do have a little bit more experience with horses than you, I'm also older and know when I have to suck it up and just let it go. Thats why Ice is also for sale.
> 
> Your jumping success has NOTHING to do with whether he likes you or not, or your "bond", because he probably doesn't give a crap about you. I know that Ice just puts up with me, which as it appears Chinga at this point does not do to you. Your success has 100% to do with the fact that being ridden is the one time where Chinga is confident and knows what is expected of him--if you send him over jumps, he'll go over jumps because that is what he has been _trained to do_, listen to his rider above all else_. _Its why race horses when they get tired don't give up and fall back, they keep going because they were trained to listen to the jockey who's spurring him on with a crop and his seat position.


What the pictures are trying to show is that I've put in the lessons, effort and time into improving myself and what followed on was a massive success in Chinga's work. I know why this happened, because my seat improved and I could give him more aids. I know I have a long way to go.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> 100% agree with the above. He wants a purpose, and he doesn't have one right now
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thats because his sitting around with an ingury..


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

What about before that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

ChingazMyBoy said:


> Thats because his sitting around with an ingury..


thats not what she ment.


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

myhorsesonador said:


> If your horse is waht you live for you have a very pathetic life. Its ok to love your horse but what about your friends? Do you care about them? You make it sound like he is all care about.


 my horse is what i live for... well, friends at a teens age come and go, you cant get to clingy to them, they usually end up stabbin you in the back or just leaving in the end,:lol: thats why her horse is probably more important then her friends, friends arent usually that special at this age, very few are.


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## Mickey4793 (Sep 24, 2009)

Guys she's a wee little girl, she's in the midst of puberty, she's full of obstinacy, and stubbornness. If she wants to live in a fairy tale "saddle club" setting and not listen to anyone's advice than no one can physically stop her. She's like a normal little girl, does what she wants. Maybe when she grows up a little she'll see. Till then there's nothing ANYONE can do except her.


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## ChingazMyBoy (Apr 16, 2009)

myhorsesonador said:


> If your horse is waht you live for you have a very pathetic life. Its ok to love your horse but what about your friends? Do you care about them? You make it sound like he is all care about.


http://www.horseforum.com/teen-talk/here-we-go-again-life-sucks-54710/ --


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

OK folks, I think this thread has run it's course.


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