# wild bay + cream = wild buckskin, so...



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

...this pony is wild buckskin, right?

Not much in the way of dark points, I think the only time she's had any decent amount of black on her legs was when I attacked her with half a tub of black horse makeup for a show so of course it was almost all fake.

She's 5 in December and we've had her since she was a weanling. Her colour has never shown any significant change, except in summer she's a lovely rich gold with dapples, which shows up the three tiny white patches she has on her near side. In winter she's this lovely cream colour.

She's definitely buckskin. Sire is buckskin (E/e A/* Cr/n, he's thrown chestnut and palomino so he carries red but his agouti status is unknown) dam is black (genotype unknown). The only thing in question is the TYPE of agouti she's expressing.

She's my favourite pony. I bought her, and then when she was nearly 2 I gave her to Mum because Mum had just lost her palomino QH and Hippo (formerly Satin) was on the market anyway, so I could get a bigger horse.

She's 14.3 and we all love her to death, and yes, we're aware she's obese. She's on a diet and being brought into work.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

She is very cute and I would also say that she is wild buckskin. At the age of 5, all her blacks points are as mature as they will get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## celestejasper13 (May 16, 2014)

Almost every horse carries red. Is the sire wild buckskin or just normal buckskin? If he is just buckskin, then his agouti status would be normal bay - A/a or A/At. If he were A/A+ he would be wild buckskin. If her dam is black then she her agouti would be a/a. 

I would say your mare is definitely wild buckskin, which makes her A/A+, Cr/n and E/e or E/E, and makes her sire's agouti status A/A+. 
What I'm saying is that if her dam is definitely black (not smokey black), then your mare will have the same agouti status as her sire (although perhaps heterozygous), as it won't be changed by the mother's recessive genes.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

celestejasper13 said:


> Almost every horse carries red. Is the sire wild buckskin or just normal buckskin? If he is just buckskin, then his agouti status would be normal bay - A/a or A/At. If he were A/A+ he would be wild buckskin. If her dam is black then she her agouti would be a/a.
> 
> I would say your mare is definitely wild buckskin, which makes her A/A+, Cr/n and E/e or E/E, and makes her sire's agouti status A/A+.
> What I'm saying is that if her dam is definitely black (not smokey black), then your mare will have the same agouti status as her sire (although perhaps heterozygous), as it won't be changed by the mother's recessive genes.


To be homozygous for agouti, you need one copy from mom and one from dad. You cannot get two agouti from the sire. Also, it is believed that the bay agouti is the most dominant mutation of agouti, so a bay based horse (like buckskin) will usually appear bay based but can have the brown or wild bay agouti mutation as well (but hidden under the dominantly expressed agouti). A bay based buckskin who produces a wild bay based buckskin when crossed with a black means that the stallion has both bay and wild bay agouti mutations but passed the wild bay agouti. The OP's young mare is E? A+a Crcr, has a 50% chance of passing the wild bay agouti mutation and a 50% of passing a cream if she was ever bred.


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## celestejasper13 (May 16, 2014)

Oops my mistake I did not mean to say A/A+, I know that he would only pass on one copy and she would be heterozygous!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

celestejasper13 said:


> Oops my mistake I did not mean to say A/A+, I know that he would only pass on one copy and she would be heterozygous!


We all have those moments :lol:

I usually try to catch mine within the 10 minute edit window, but sometimes I forget, still miss the error or am too distracted to reread my posts :wink:


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Wouldn't the black on her knee disqualify her from wild bay? I think she's just minimally expressed. I'd be curious for a pic of dad, and a closer pic of her

(She is beautiful!! I prefer Satin, much more suitable for such a beautiful mare. Maybe Hippo is temporary until the diet kicks in XD!)


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> Wouldn't the black on her knee disqualify her from wild bay? I think she's just minimally expressed. I'd be curious for a pic of dad, and a closer pic of her
> 
> (She is beautiful!! I prefer Satin, much more suitable for such a beautiful mare. Maybe Hippo is temporary until the diet kicks in XD!)


It isn't solid black on the knees, just more concentrated darker hairs. 

Years back I rode a horse who was quite obese, she was named named Jenny. I renamed her Jenny Craig :lol: she got into great shape (according to her owners, it was the best condition she had ever been in and I only rode her one year) after working her regularly, went from huffing and puffing after 30 seconds of trotting to being able to canter for 5 minutes without heavy breathing


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

I would say yes, especially with the hock not matching the knee with the black patch. Her back leg doesn't even look like any black is really visible because of the sock. I've only seen one or two wild buckskins in person.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

^We can't see her hock?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Her dam was definitely black. I'll have to re-find the foal photos I had, I've got a pretty good eye for black vs brown. I never owned either her dam or her sire - as I said I bought her as a weanling.

First photo is one of Hippo where you can see her hock, second photo is her half sister (out of a chestnut TB mare) and third and fourth are daddy, a lovely grade stallion who throws a very consistent, very lovely type. He consistently throws slightly bigger than the mare - he is 15hh, Hippo's dam was 14.2, Hippo is 14.3, but one of his kids is 16.3!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Another one of her sire just because I think he's a stunner


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Dad is STUNNING!

And clearly not a wild bay lol. Interesting how similar the half sister's legs are to Hippo.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Dad crosses best to cob and draft mares, which makes sense because he's quite a cobby type himself, but to lighter mares he still produces quite a nice type. I follow him on Facebook because he's so pretty. I'd put him over a nice big solid TB mare in the hopes of breeding another Cobby (his 16.3hh son) - Cobby's rising 6 now and out doing dressage. Lovely lovely horse.

Cody (stallion) has a lovely jump, but is too solid and not tall enough to clear big fences. Hippo LOVES jumping, and that passion in a 16+hh slightly more refined package would be pretty much my perfect horse. The 50/50 chance of cream doesn't hurt either  (he actually throws something like 75% colour, from what I've seen, but technically the genetics state 50/50)

So yeah, that's me and my stance on grade horses lol. But yes, I think Hippo and her half sister are wild buckskin, which means that Cody's got to carry A+ because Hippo's dam DEFINITELY doesn't (being true black)


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## GracielaGata (Jan 14, 2012)

Very pretty horses! That sire is to die for, build and color wise! And he looks to be very intelligent and good in the face. 
I always wondered about wild buckskin. I haven't seen any but figured if there was wild bay, there had to be wild buckskin.  I myself have a very purdy little (non-wild type) buttermilk buckskin mare, so I love learning about them. 

There is blood bay and also a few other bay types as well.. anyone with any thoughts on those same variations being the reason for the different buckskin shades? I.E. golden, buttermilk, and even shade variations within those 2... any others?


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

GracielaGata said:


> Very pretty horses! That sire is to die for, build and color wise! And he looks to be very intelligent and good in the face.
> I always wondered about wild buckskin. I haven't seen any but figured if there was wild bay, there had to be wild buckskin.  I myself have a very purdy little (non-wild type) buttermilk buckskin mare, so I love learning about them.
> 
> There is blood bay and also a few other bay types as well.. anyone with any thoughts on those same variations being the reason for the different buckskin shades? I.E. golden, buttermilk, and even shade variations within those 2... any others?


Every coat color has shade variations. Look at chestnuts for example, some almost pass for palomino and others almost look black. You will always find large variations in every coat color, even black (some are a glossy midnight black but the other end of the spectrum of black coats are the ones that fade horribly at the mention of sunlight)


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