# teaching alone trail riding



## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

I have a 5 year old that is afraid when riding trails alone. What is the best way to get her to get over this snorting and looking everywhere? She will walk forward, but I cannot get her to trot!! I feel funny forcing her to move forward(trot) with my crop when she is acting afraid?? (Interesting she is not as "afraid" when heading towards home.........??????


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## BellaIris (Jul 21, 2012)

What works best in a situation like this depends a lot on you and your horses personalities. Is your mare always a little jumpy, sensitive and hot, or is she usually level-headed and a slow reactor? Are you a cautious rider, or a rough and tumble one who isn't afraid of being jostled a bit?

My mare acts like every new trail is a completely alien world and stares and snorts at everything when we ride solo. She's a hot and sensitive arab, and I'm a bolder rider, so I usually just ignore the show and ride along. As she gets used to the new routes she calms down a little, but never stops looking and snorting--it's just her personality.

Someone who is less confident riding forward in this situation can always walk the horse on the trail in-hand, because this removes the anxiety of falling off. Most horses will eventually get used to going out solo if their rider has consistent confidence.


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## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

great help!! I consider myself on the braver side. When your horse is doing all that do you encourage a trot or just walk it through. i would like to encourage the trot, thinking she would concentrate more. 

Thank you for the info, that she will eventually get use to going sole.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

Thats what you call 'booger pickin' she is lookin for somethin to spook at on purpose. 

You need to make her pay attention to you and not whats goin on around her.


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## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

Wow will they actually "do" that...ON PURPOSE!! Looking for spooky ghosts and acting like they are on LSD?? Amazing if true.....ok I have her number sweet Gracie.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

That is what training and the arena are for, to break your horse to obedience. I wouldn't ride your horse solo on the trail for the 17 trillion dollar national debt. She is an accident on the trail waiting to happen.
School in the arena until she is broke, and THEN, enlist a mature babysitter horse and rider to accompany you on the trails, and shame her into behaving.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Best to build her confidence. Do a little trail ride, and then next time do a little more.

That's how I was able to get my big spooky boy (in the beginning) on trails that all sorts of things happened and I didn't die.


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

beachluvr said:


> Wow will they actually "do" that...ON PURPOSE!! Looking for spooky ghosts and acting like they are on LSD?? Amazing if true.....ok I have her number sweet Gracie.



Yes ma'am.. Its all an act.. You know how you can tell its an act? They wont do it on the way home! 

I used to hate riding horses that would do that.. best to get their mind off their surroundings and focused on you! When they would try to look somewhere- ill bump their bit to tell them 'look forward' they shouldnt be lookin around anyway- when you see their ears go up talk to them- bust a circle or do some leg work. 

Only thing worse than a 'booger picker' is a horse that fakes being lame-- yup- they do that on purpose too! Lol.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Mine are 100% on trails......until you "move the furniture". Great on new trails-but on the ones we frequent-if a STICK is moved it becomes snort worthy. So silly. I just laugh and keep going. ;-) I have also found that mine will relax totally if he is following-but put him in the lead and he feels responsible for the world, including me. So, when we are alone he is really vigilant, and, I must say he has kept me safe more than once. So there is a fine line between being silly, and pushing them on, and really paying attention to them.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Great on new trails-but on the ones we frequent-if a STICK is moved it becomes snort worthy. So silly. I just laugh and keep going. ;-)



Hahah my horse does the same for the arena! If so much as a pole is moved.. he evades it like it's on fire. Actually the cause for one of my "near" falls.

At least they're smart and paying attention right? And provide a bit of comic relief haha


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Haha! Well I fell off one of mine walking back to the barn from the arena-I had dropped my stirrups (which usually makes my guys stop in their tracks), walking loose reins......and he spooked at an electrical box had been there the entire time he had. He had seen EVERY SINGLE ride. Turd. ;-)


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## BellaIris (Jul 21, 2012)

beachluvr said:


> When your horse is doing all that do you encourage a trot or just walk it through. i would like to encourage the trot, thinking she would concentrate more.


Depends on the situation. If she's acting like she wants to run, she has to walk. But if she's lacking forward energy a trot can help.


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## bbsmfg3 (Aug 12, 2010)

"Interesting she is not as "afraid" when heading towards home?

Who is training who, here? Sounds like this horse has your number.

Don't force the issue to the point you can not handle it, but when you head for home and her fears disappear, turn her around and insist she go forward free and easy. Spurs, bat, hickory stick, whatever it takes.


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## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

frank and beans too funny!! We were gaiting solo down one of our "safe" roads and yesterday someone dumped a load of dirt next to the road to fill the pot holes. Well you would have thought the world was coming to an end!!
She is great on the trails following horses...refuses to lead. She is 5 so I am just going to keep going solo and when in a group try to get her to edge forward. I am enjoying the "process' but sometimes i want to jump to when she is 10! I ride about 3-5 times a week. She is great in the outdoor areana and round pen


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

toto hit the first thing on the head....the horse needs to focus on you and not everything else. You MUST be the boss/leader/etc..... and they have to stay alert to you and the directions you give. Easy to say :lol:, but it can take work to reach that state.
The horse needs to trust and rely on you to determine what is a danger. They need to accept that you (not them) determine what is dangerous. If they are focusing on you they won't be looking around to see what might be scary to them. If you let them examine everything to see if they want to risk it then they are subject to spook at anything and you're empowering them to do so.

As for being great at returning home. I've never met a horse that wasn't happy, even eager to return home. Old rule of thumb....never let a horse run or trot back home. Once that habbit is started it's work to break them of it.

You can ride a horse 3 days out from home and they'll still know the way home. They'll be eager when they feel you're heading back


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

If you are a confident, bold rider, then I would push her through just as Toto says.

My well-seasoned trail horse is also just fine on all new trails, but as already posted, if a branch moved on the trail behind the barn, she will snort at it. Too bad for her, I don't let her sniff it or acknowledge her little spiff at all. I just keep walking, or trotting as the case may be.

I also disagree with never trotting or running your horse home. The reason that many horse want to run home is because they figure when they get there, the work is done, they'll get groomed, fed and pampered. When we get home from a ride, it's not over until I feel like its over. It might be the end of the ride right away. Or we might head out again. We might do some flat work in the yard (limited yard). I might stand in the driveway and chat to someone for 1/2 hour. I might take off the reins, put hobbles on her and work in the yard, then hop on again for a short ride. Any number of different situations. So my horse knows that coming home doesn't mean anything except it's another spot on the ride. It's also barrels of fun to come cantering into the driveway when the kids are in the yard chatting to a friend! :lol:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm pretty well convinced that Mia likes being scared. I don't think there is a chance in hell she'll ever stroll down a trail, relaxed and smoking a cigarette. She likes taking the lead, but she is hyper-alert. And we do plenty of OMG Crouches.

I honestly think she gets bored, and invents something to be scared of. She does fine when she is busy, but give her a stretch of easy trail to stroll down...she'll find something to startle at. But she hasn't bolted in a long time, and that is good enough for me. If I really want a push-button horse, I need to go buy one. Until then...:wink:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

its lbs not miles said:


> toto hit the first thing on the head....the horse needs to focus on you and not everything else. You MUST be the boss/leader/etc..... and they have to stay alert to you and the directions you give. Easy to say :lol:, but it can take work to reach that state.
> The horse needs to trust and rely on you to determine what is a danger. They need to accept that you (not them) determine what is dangerous. If they are focusing on you they won't be looking around to see what might be scary to them. If you let them examine everything to see if they want to risk it then they are subject to spook at anything and you're empowering them to do so.
> 
> As for being great at returning home. I've never met a horse that wasn't happy, even eager to return home. Old rule of thumb....never let a horse run or trot back home. Once that habbit is started it's work to break them of it.
> ...


See-here is the problem I have with that, and why I pay attention to what my horses are telling me. NOTE: I am not saying that most of the time we do what they think is safe, but I do at least pay attention to them when they are afraid, and, this has come with years of knowing them on the trails and when they are acting and when they are for real. Neither of which happens often.
I have known people, in fact, I think there have been cases posted here, where horses refused to go forward for some reason. Rider forced them, and there was something that was not safe, such as, I knew one who sank up to her chest in muck and got stuck.
I do give them some credence, as I recognize that their senses are much sharper than mine.


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## BellaIris (Jul 21, 2012)

*bsms:
*sounds like your horse is a lot like mine!

*franknbeans:
*you bring up a really good point. This is part of the reason why I won't force a horse over an obstacle while they are examining it. Fortunately, the difference between genuine fear and play-spooking is usually pretty obvious!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Bella-it takes time to know a horse. If mine refuses to go over, under, around or through something they have seen 100 times-I get after them. But, I remember one time distinctly-I was out on a trail we went on ALL the time, just walking along. Ears went up, and my guy stopped. Refused to take another step. Really afraid of something. Next thing I knew I heard a gunshot. It was NOT hunting season, nor was this a hunting area. I will never know what it was, but I am glad he heard what I didn't, and we got home safely.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

First and foremost, you have to have 100% control over your horse's body parts before you ever go out on a trail. Secondly, you have to be 100% OK within yourself before you ask your horse to be 100% OK with what you are doing to it. Thirdly, you need to know the moment your horse loses focus on you and get that attention back immediately. I am guessing your horse "loses it" way before you notice anything is wrong. By the time you notice, he is already in over his head without any help from you. So, pay attention to his breathing. This is a huge indicator that he is getting uncomfortable. If he starts holding his breath stay where you are and ask for a circle or a leg yield, anything really, that gets the focus back on you and his breathing returns to normal. Then proceed. You might only make it one foot before he starts holding his breath. That's fine, just repeat the process. 

And it isn't that they aren't scared or nervous going home, they just have all their focus on home, so less chance of noticing the scary bush or horse-eating log. Same thing, though. Don't let them rush, or pick the way. You make all the decisions for them. If it feels like they are anticipating a left turn, take them right.


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## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

Sahara and all, thank you!! I do notice her breathing difference, i will circle her to get her back paying attention to me, all wonderful thoughts and suggestions. She is great as she is not a bolting horse, just stops with her feet planted...loose my balance at times but not enough to fall off......yet
This has been helpful because, at my barn there are not a lot of trail riders 6 months of the year, and I love to/have to go out alone. I want to get to the point where we do it second nature...within reason!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I assume this is a picture of you and your horse. I am not trying to be a know-it-all. I want you to know that I write sincerely, thinking of your safety. I am 55yo, and have NO DESIRE to fall off riding anymore. I used to have stone-broke horses, than have all passed on now, and they lived well into their 20's. Two of them were with me for 23 years of their lives. (I used them for 10 years of riding lessons and DH & I did CW Reenacting/trailriding for 26 years, and nothing would spook these horses.) It takes a LOT of training to make a reliable trail horse. It is NOT _"This horse can ALWAYS be a trail horse, if the other training doesn't work out."_


beachluvr said:


> She is great as she is not a bolting horse, j*ust stops with her feet planted*...loose my balance at times but not enough to fall off......yet
> This has been helpful because, at my barn there are not a lot of trail riders 6 months of the year, and I love to/have to go out alone.


You have a very spooky horse who is not ready to be trail ridden. _*Are your barn facilities boring for you?*_ Find some friends to play horse games with you and further train your horse to obedience.
I don't ride alone, or when my family is gone. (My horses are in my back 5 acres.) And, I've been training my horses since 1985.
NO tack is 100% effective to keep you from getting dragged in the saddle. (Have you seen the drag the rider scene in "Seabiscuit?") My arm was broken when my gelding, who wasn't ready for our hobby, spooked and bucked me 9 ft. in the air. (My friends gave me after action reports.)
ANY TIME a horse plants his/her feet, they are frightened and considering running away. YOU on the back could keep your horse from running, so your horse will probably throw you. On the trail, there is no guarantee that your cell phone will be available for you to call for help. If your arms are both broken, how will you dial? You say that few people at your barn trail ride. How LONG would it be before somebody notices that you are missing?


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I own three horses right now, all getting one year older. My 15yo KMHSA mare is a CW Reenacting Veteran. She and my 7yo KMH gelding are trail ready and can handle most things, like when he flushed a clutch of wild turkeys and didn't flinch. My 7yo QH isn't quite ready for trail riding, but we have minimal trail riding available, mostly bc the RR spur 1/4 mile south of us was closed and is used by ATV riders--we're ridden it before, and will be good for practice. I would'nt even THINK of riding any of them SOLO, like you want to do, out on these trails, even though all three of my horses are a more reliable ride than yours. 
PLEASE get some training help, and take your time. I'd rather see you post about what other activities you and your horse should do, instead of your injury photos.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

This is all purely my opinion because I don't know the horse or rider involved.

It's not about teaching her to ride out alone, its about her trusting you as the leader and looking to you for guidance and about giving her the confidence in herself and you.

In other words, groundwork groundwork groundwork. Control her feet and her body. Make her understand that her brain can do whatever the heck it wants as long as she doesn't move a hoof out of line. Des Sofia's her to scary things, noises, colors, textures. Put the tools in her toolbox so that she can draw on them when you're asking her to do something that's actually pretty unnatural for a horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Sahara said:


> First and foremost, you have to have 100% control over your horse's body parts before you ever go out on a trail.


If that were true, would anyone ever be able to trail ride?

Maybe a bit off topic (and gawd knows I'm no expert), but some of the posters here just seem to live in a different world. Like everyone has ready access to an arena, and thinks it's normal to spend countless hours riding around one before ever venturing out...


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

jamesqf, you are misunderstanding our advice. It takes an experienced trainer probably 18 months 5 days/week/at LEAST one hour training to produce a finished horse. 
(Please don't split hairs on this thread about your definition of "finished." My reasons for giving advice is the welfare of the OP, NOT to win an argument.)
I have been been hurt misjudging a horse's behavior. So have two of my DD's, and my DH. Would you prefer that we say nothing? Maybe I should wait for the graphic injury photos, and then say, "I could have told you so."
Start doing some SERIOUS study about horse training. There used to be very little, but now there is an explosion of information available to help you. We have threads every week with good advice. We also threads here every week that shows that somebody should have known better and not gotten hurt.
IF you suffer a concussion, and have an additional concussion within 6 months you could suffer permanent head injuries. This happens when you are thrown from your horse.
Don't be proud. We all know that too many unfinished horses get sold to people you don't know how to fix the problems. It is an emotional high to own and ride a horse, so people make excuses for their horse's bad behavior.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Hah stupid auto correct. Des Sophia should be desensitize her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

Thanks dancing and james! My barn has indoor and outdoor arenas and two round pens all of which I use and love. I feel I do have her respect on the ground. Maybe I exaggerated when I was describing my horse and me riding alone. We have been riding alone for a year now off and on depending who is around. I ride her to the beach alone and she will even put her front hooves in the water. 
I am one that takes calculated, safe risks, but nothing is a given.
That is my picture, I will be 60, my first horse and she is 5! I love every minute I am around her.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> If that were true, would anyone ever be able to trail ride?
> 
> Maybe a bit off topic (and gawd knows I'm no expert), but some of the posters here just seem to live in a different world. Like everyone has ready access to an arena, and thinks it's normal to spend countless hours riding around one before ever venturing out...


Well, I don't know where you trail ride, but if I don't have 100% control of my horse's shoulder or rib cage or hind end, we might go right over a bluff should something unexpected happen. If she spooks at a wild turkey or we flush out some pheasants, I'd like to know I can disengage her hind end before she decides to bolt or buck. So, yeah, I want to be able to control my horse's body parts. It is called preparation. Setting up for success. Whatever. I will spend as many countless hours as it takes to make sure my horse and I will be safe no matter where we ride. You say it like there is something wrong with that??

I didn't say you needed an arena. You can work with your horse anywhere it is feasibly possible. Even on the trail.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Sahara said:


> Well, I don't know where you trail ride, but if I don't have 100% control of my horse's shoulder or rib cage or hind end, we might go right over a bluff should something unexpected happen. If she spooks at a wild turkey or we flush out some pheasants, I'd like to know I can disengage her hind end before she decides to bolt or buck. So, yeah, I want to be able to control my horse's body parts. It is called preparation. Setting up for success. Whatever. I will spend as many countless hours as it takes to make sure my horse and I will be safe no matter where we ride. You say it like there is something wrong with that??
> 
> I didn't say you needed an arena. You can work with your horse anywhere it is feasibly possible. Even on the trail.


I think it was your wording 

You can't have 100% control of your horse's body parts. You can, however, have training in place that will let you take over your horse's body parts (such as the case would be in the examples you gave ^^), but 100% control all the time just isn't possible. If it was, no one's horse would spook ever. Then we'd all complain about how dull our horses were!

ETA: OP, look up those Bombproof Your Horse books, they're really good. There's also some stuff from Clinton Anderson about problem solving on the trail.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

The OP has already stated that the horse is fine in the arena and only shows difficulty on the trail. The more miles you put on the less issue the horse will have. You can train to death in the arena and groundwork to death, but the trail is a constantly changing environment and the horse has to learn to recognize what is truly scary and what isn't. It takes time.

You can't train for trail anywhere but on the trail. If I will ride a horse in an arena, or in the paddock I will ride it on the trail. Whether or not the horse is "finished." It's ALL training.

The only thing different is being alone. If you're alone in the arena and no one else is at the barn, you're still alone and still at risk. Alone on the trail -- the difference is distance from help and ensuring someone knows where you are. So, when alone ANYWHERE take precautions and think about what you would do, need to do, if you end up on the ground seriously injured. Or if the horse is injured.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

DancingArabian said:


> I think it was your wording
> 
> but 100% control all the time just isn't possible.


I am sure your right. It takes a lot of time and dedication to the horse. A task not everyone is up to.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Sahara said:


> I am sure your right. It takes a lot of time and dedication to the horse. A task not everyone is up to.


Time and dedication will not give you 100% control 100% of the time. If you had 100% control of your horse, it would never spook and risk running you into a bluff or decide


Sahara said:


> I am sure your right. It takes a lot of time and dedication to the horse. A task not everyone is up to.


Time and dedication will not give you 100% control 100% of the time. If you had 100% control of your horse, it would never spook and risk running you into a bluff because you'd already have control and wouldnt have allowed the behavior. But, horses spook, they buck, they do horse things and its about taking that control back that you're after. If you had it in the first place, they wouldn't do the things where you would need to know how to disengage the hind end or shove the ribs over or whatever. 

So you can keep stating that it takes time and dedication - and I agree with you there. It's just not possible to have 100% control - even you don't have it, and you said as much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I think you are smart enough to understand that an effective rider who can influence how a horse moves has a better chance of avoiding mishaps on the trail. I didn't say controlling my horse gave me super powers and that I could stop things before they happened. I *can* get us out of trouble because I know I can move her where I want to if we get in trouble. It's called training and preparation. 

How do dressage riders get high scores? How does someone cut a cow? How does an eventer run a course? Because they are controlling 100% of the horses movement. Now why would that be any different in trail riding?

I wonder how stacy Westfall rides bridleless and bareback if she isn't in control. Magic?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The only way you can control a horse 100% is to shoot it and sit on the corpse. If it is alive, it has a brain and can choose to use it (and its body) in a way contrary to your desire.

You can reduce problems with training, or getting a dead-head horse, or both. Nor does arena training carry over 100% to the trail. My mare dislikes running in circles, but get her outside with a trail stretching out in front of her...THAT is very different.

The point being that while you want to train your horse reasonably well, most of us would die of old age in the arena if we waited until our horse was 100% anything before heading out. You can take some precautions. I like to go out with someone, with a helmet, and riding in an Aussie-style saddle.

But if I need a 100% compliant horse, I need to go buy one:


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Of course they have minds of their own. No one said they didn't. I didn't say 100% control 100% of the time. I don't care what she does in her pasture when I am not there. But every time I ask my horse to do something I expect her to try or comply each and every time I ask. Otherwise, what is the point? If I want her to disengage her hip or side pass I should let her do it when she feels like it? Who is the leader in that relationship?


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## srh1 (Jun 3, 2012)

I do have access to an arena, and when I'm just starting a horse on the trails I'll leave the gait open to the arena and go out a short time, go back in, go back out, and back in. Venturing out more as the horse and I feel more comfortable. Eventually it tends to become boring and then we're ready for the rest of the trails.

Honestly I let the horse let off some steam once we get back to the arena (not on the way back) just a fast trot till the horse is able to relax some more before we head out again.

Do you have an open field? That is an ideal step between the arena and trails if you have one.

I don't have complete control over the horse's every movement for sure, but by the end they realize I am in charge and totally trustworthy. Then you have your awesome trailhorse


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Sahara said:


> First and foremost, you have to have 100% control over your horse's body parts before you ever go out on a trail. Secondly, you have to be 100% OK within yourself before you ask your horse to be 100% OK with what you are doing to it. Thirdly, you need to know the moment your horse loses focus on you and get that attention back immediately. I am guessing your horse "loses it" way before you notice anything is wrong. By the time you notice, he is already in over his head without any help from you. So, pay attention to his breathing. This is a huge indicator that he is getting uncomfortable. If he starts holding his breath stay where you are and ask for a circle or a leg yield, anything really, that gets the focus back on you and his breathing returns to normal. Then proceed. You might only make it one foot before he starts holding his breath. That's fine, just repeat the process.
> 
> And it isn't that they aren't scared or nervous going home, they just have all their focus on home, so less chance of noticing the scary bush or horse-eating log. Same thing, though. Don't let them rush, or pick the way. You make all the decisions for them. If it feels like they are anticipating a left turn, take them right.


I think you all are getting too hung up on the 100%. Here is my original post. First and foremost you need to have control of your horse's body before ever going out on the trail. Why would you want to ride any horse anywhere that you can't control? I don't get it.

If I had a death wish I'd ride the bike bsms posted.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Sahara said:


> How do dressage riders get high scores? How does someone cut a cow? How does an eventer run a course? Because they are controlling 100% of the horses movement.


I don't think so. Perhaps we have different ideas of what's meant by "control"? Take for instance the cutting horse: I don't think the cowboy (or girl) riding that horse is 100% in control of every part of the horse's body. Rather, the horse has learned to do the job of cutting, and does it with little direction from the rider, who is concentrating on his part of the job. If the rider was controlling 100% of the horse's body, then an experienced cowperson should be able to do cutting on any healthy horse, an experienced dressage rider would get the same scores riding any horse, etc.

Really, I wouldn't even know how to control my horse's body parts. I just tell her "walk", "trot", "canter", etc, and she handles the business of making her legs move appropriately. I don't control the parts, I control (usually: sometimes there's a little discussion ) the intention.

The other point here is where people learn. Some don't have access to arenas, or even nice open fields. In my case, the first time I rode was on a trail (actually a nice, smooth dirt road).


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Let's try this again people. 

A horse will only be as good as you expect it to be. If you ask your horse to stop do you expect it to stop every time you ask or is 75% good enough for you? If you want to turn right do you expect the horse to turn right or is it ok if it turns left?

If you expect your horse to respond to an aid 50% of the time then it will.

I expect my horse to respond to whatever aid I give it 100% of the time. 

Let's not make this discussion harder than it is.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Beachluvr....It sounds like you are enjoying this nice young horse. Horses accept situations differently. Maybe yours just needs more time to be really confident on the trail. Personally, if she is happy walking right now, then that's what I'd do...but when she gets wide-eyed about something, I'd just ask her to keep moving and pay attention to you...no big deal...nothing to be afraid of. However, if she really is afraid (and someone earlier stated you can tell the difference), then I would pay attention to that. Paying attention to my horse kept me out of trouble a couple of times.
The important thing is that both of you enjoy the trail. : )


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

You know I have never seen a horse run a barrel pattern without a rider on its back. I never have. How do those riders get the horse to run the pattern? Is it because the rider is controlling the horse's feet? How do they turn around the barrel? Is it because the rider rates the turn and applies an aid to the body of the horse? Do they not have control of the horse's body? 

James, how does your horse get anywhere on the trail? When does it know to turn around and go home? Are you just a passenger letting the horse go wherever it wants to? How do you turn left? How do you back up? Are you riding a green horse or an experienced trail horse? Do you think you could just tell a green horse walk, trot, canter? Clearly, you are reaping the rewards of someone's hard work.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Beachlvr, I think the horse is mirroring you. You are a bit uncertain about being out there alone, so you slightly tense up. Coming home you relax because now you see you are going to live through it. 

I think for most horses, going with another horse or alone is not that much different, if the rider is comfortable. I would take her out with one other horse for a bit. 

Most observers would think my horses don't like big groups because they act up, but I don't like big groups!

Good Luck!!

Nancy


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## beachluvr (Feb 9, 2013)

sahara, I do too believe it is important to have control of body parts. I flex her, and practice one reign stops so when we are on the trail its second nature to me and her when needed. It helps me feel safer and confident. I love to do adventure trail riding, riding up over the berm, around trees and objects. it is a game for me and hopefully her. I usually ride in back so i can do that. She is young and is a bit timid when heading out alone with out the "safety" of the other horses. When they all spoke she doesn't budge acts all brave.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Sahara, the issue I think is exactly that you did state 100%. Nothing is 100%; ever. Impossible. Whether it's a horse, a bike, a skill, the trail conditions, the crowd... nothing. That's the point. To expect absolutely 100% is an unreasonable goal. To DESIRE it and to STRIVE towards it, yes and we can all get a bit closer, but never will we be at 100%. To tell the OP that her control has to be 100% before heading out on the trail is basically saying she (and everyone else) should never go out on the trail. 

You can't tell me and have me believe that every single time you have gone riding or worked with your horse, and that every single minute with the horse has always been absolutely perfect. That's the point. There is no perfection.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Sahara said:


> You know I have never seen a horse run a barrel pattern without a rider on its back. I never have. How do those riders get the horse to run the pattern? Is it because the rider is controlling the horse's feet? How do they turn around the barrel? Is it because the rider rates the turn and applies an aid to the body of the horse? Do they not have control of the horse's body?...


No, they do NOT control the body. Horses have been bred for thousands of years to be willing and submissive. And we teach them in part by controlling their alternatives - making it unpleasant to refuse us, and easier to obey, until they form a habit of obeying.

The problem is the word "control". Can you direct a horse to do something? Of course! And they usually will do it, particularly if they are in the habit of obeying. But you do not CONTROL squat. Run your horse into some Teddy Bear Cholla and see how much control you have!








​ 
If Mia is genuinely afraid of something ahead of us, I can whip her rump with a leather strap, and she will still go in reverse. As the lady I took lessons from put it, "You cannot make a horse do anything. You can only make all the alternatives less desirable." And if something in front says "FEAR ME!!!!", then the leather strap on Mia's butt gets ignored.

With time, she is less likely to be overwhelmed with fear, because she gets used to my telling her to go from A to B being safe. But that isn't something I can teach her in an arena. And that is the point for this thread: 

*You cannot teach a horse in an arena that it will be safe outside the arena.*​ 
At some point, you have to leave the confines of the arena and go out and start facing those fears. And what will they fear? Depends on the horse. Some are born pretty level headed. Others, like Mia, have a lot of deep seated fears. And in an arena, she never needs to face those fears. The walls of the arena protect her - or so she believes. We could spend 20 years riding in an arena, and she would be no better prepared for the real world. She cannot face her fears until she is exposed to them.

And just as only about 50% of groundwork carries over to when my butt is in the saddle, only about 50% of what she learns in the arena carries over to outside. So at some point you have to take the horse out and let it learn about the world. 100% good in the arena is about 50% good on the trail, IMHO. That is because the horse's mind controls its body. And the horse can't learn to trust me in a scary situation until we've FACED scary situations together, me on her back. If that puts me in danger...well, I can accept the risk, or stay in the arena forever.

BTW - Cowboy is our BLM mustang pony. He is great on a trail. Ride him in an arena, and THAT is where he gets scared! So much depends on the horse!


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

To bsms...Amen, Brother!!!!!

I can be comfortable with what I can teach here at home, but for the trail horse I want, the trail becomes my training ground. I'm not heading out with a wild-eyed bozo or the greenest of mounts. That would be foolhardy to say the least. But in order to have a confident trail horse you need to get out on the trail. JMHO


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

I think it's safe to say we all agree. Some are just uncomfortable with the word control. So let's call it "direct the body parts". 

Yes, we strive for 100% compliance when I apply an aid. If she doesn't get it I correct her and ask again. 

The point I am so desperately trying to make is that if you do not have the ability to direct your horse's body parts when you absolutely need to then you are an accident waiting to happen. You prepare for trail riding just like you would any other discipline. As far as I am concerned, being able to move a shoulder or hip when you need to is a very basic maneuver. I am not saying you should be able to do flying lead changes or a levade. I am talking about having a foundation on your horse so you can both be successful. 

Think about it in terms of a kid's horse. I sure as heck am not putting my kid on a horse they can't "direct". 

And just to make this crystal clear I said they should have 100% control of the horse's body. Meaning if you, in any circumstance, ask your horse to do a leg yield it should respond. Not ignore you and bolt back to the barn.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Amen brother and sister!!!


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

bsms said:


> No, they do NOT control the body. Horses have been bred for thousands of years to be willing and submissive. And we teach them in part by controlling their alternatives - making it unpleasant to refuse us, and easier to obey, until they form a habit of obeying.
> 
> The problem is the word "control". Can you direct a horse to do something? Of course! And they usually will do it, particularly if they are in the habit of obeying. But you do not CONTROL squat. Run your horse into some Teddy Bear Cholla and see how much control you have!
> 
> ...





Dustbunny said:


> To bsms...Amen, Brother!!!!!
> 
> I can be comfortable with what I can teach here at home, but for the trail horse I want, the trail becomes my training ground. I'm not heading out with a wild-eyed bozo or the greenest of mounts. That would be foolhardy to say the least. But in order to have a confident trail horse you need to get out on the trail. JMHO


OOPs! I meant ^^^^^ Amen, BROTHER and SISTER! :lol:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

beachluvr said:


> I have a 5 year old that is afraid when riding trails alone. What is the best way to get her to get over this snorting and looking everywhere? She will walk forward, but I cannot get her to trot!! I feel funny forcing her to move forward(trot) with my crop when she is acting afraid?? (Interesting she is not as "afraid" when heading towards home.........??????


I think your answer is in the question. She's afraid going out and not coming back? So, lots of sweaty blankets are the answer. There are 2 things going on here and it could be one or the other or both. She is genuinely afraid, but once she's seen it, she's not afraid so spooky out, not so much back. Or, she's playing a game and trying to get out of work. So, spooky out but when she doesn't get out of work she calms down on the way back. Or it could be a combination of the 2, and either way, sweaty blankets will cure the issue. Eventually she'll be BTDT about all the trail stuff or she'll learn being all spooky and snorty doesn't get her put away. Either way, she'll eventually calm down and you'll get a decent ride. Some horses just go out hotter than others too, and settle during the ride and on the way home you can practically ride with no reins. 

I wouldn't be at all guilty about giving her a spank to get her moving, especially if it's on a trail she's been on before. That's the part that makes me wonder about the getting out of work game.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

You know, I think maybe all ARE saying the same thing.
Don't go out on a horse when you have no control. That is common sense...although I'm sure we have all seen riders lacking both control and common sense.
And to season a trail horse you need to get out on the trail.
Have a great ride and Happy Trails!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Sahara said:


> You know I have never seen a horse run a barrel pattern without a rider on its back. I never have. How do those riders get the horse to run the pattern? Is it because the rider is controlling the horse's feet? How do they turn around the barrel? Is it because the rider rates the turn and applies an aid to the body of the horse? Do they not have control of the horse's body?
> 
> James, how does your horse get anywhere on the trail? When does it know to turn around and go home? Are you just a passenger letting the horse go wherever it wants to? How do you turn left? How do you back up? Are you riding a green horse or an experienced trail horse? Do you think you could just tell a green horse walk, trot, canter? Clearly, you are reaping the rewards of someone's hard work.


Sahara, go on YouTube and search for "barrel horse without rider". I'm posting from mobile otherwise I would. Plenty of videos of a horse losing its rider and continuing on the pattern.

There's also a video of a riderless cow horse herding a mechanical cow on a line.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

DancingArabian said:


> Sahara, go on YouTube and search for "barrel horse without rider". I'm posting from mobile otherwise I would. Plenty of videos of a horse losing its rider and continuing on the pattern.
> 
> There's also a video of a riderless cow horse herding a mechanical cow on a line.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's awesome! Clearly the horse knows his job. Someone did a fantastic job training him. (i.e. controlling his body parts). :wink:


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

NorthernMama said:


> When we get home from a ride, it's not over until I feel like its over. It might be the end of the ride right away. Or we might head out again. We might do some flat work in the yard (limited yard). I might stand in the driveway and chat to someone for 1/2 hour. I might take off the reins, put hobbles on her and work in the yard, then hop on again for a short ride. Any number of different situations. So my horse knows that coming home doesn't mean anything except it's another spot on the ride. It's also barrels of fun to come cantering into the driveway when the kids are in the yard chatting to a friend! :lol:


Yes, thanks for the reminder, I should do this more often!
My mare is OK coming back after riding out in the pastures on the property, which is not very far out at all. We just go out there to cool down after arena work. One time there were some guest riders and their horses arriving for a get-together at the barn and she was just crazy going back... head up, crying out, trying to rush ahead, jiggy. Had never seen her like that before. The wind was blowing in our direction. She was in season and one of the horses was a stud and they had met before. So I dismounted about 50 feet out mainly because I was worried about the stud. It was a gut feeling that this may turn into a wreck!

Beach, I think your mare is very pretty.


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm enjoying this thread because I am just breaking into trail riding and everyone I know is an arena rider. My mare has been on trail a couple of times and did great, but we will ride with others until she gets BTDT about it. It is taking time for me to find others to go out with, and a few Saturday mornings I really had to stop myself from just hauling out on my own, thinking about what Corporal says about safety issues. Also, agree with what some of you are saying about rider confidence... there are days where I tell myself to not go out along for all kinds of reasons, but usually my feeling is that my mare will be fine, and I have the first aid supplies, etc. for me and her on me, etc. and so what the heck, just go! I don't because I love riding and want to do it for a long, long time and I would be mad at myself if something happened to me or my mare and it was because I took a foolish risk. Riding is great for teaching patience! She needs several more rides with others before we go out on our own.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

It's natural for a young horse or horse that hasn't had a lot of trail experience to be wide eyed when going out at first. Everything is new them then.
Most of your problems will be solved by time in the saddle.
It all basically comes down to knowing your horse and them knowing you. You can do ground work and games to build your relationships. You can also go out with other horses, ride off from the other horses then come back, and switch so your horse leads sometime. It's important to keep your horse's mind working so that he isn't doing things out of habit but because he is listening to you and paying attention. However there's no real way to prepare for riding alone except by doing it.
Every time I've been hurt on a horse has been when I've been out alone. So yeah, I still get scared which is probably the biggest problem. After my 1st really bad throw I found myself looking for danger, and as a result was freaking my horse out, unconsciously training her to be scared.
Once I realized this and consciously tried to relax and enjoy my ride things started changing. If you are bored and scared so are they.
Be alert but don't be afraid!
Cherie has a great thread on here about this -
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/how-we-train-fearless-trail-horse-99776/


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Sahara said:


> James, how does your horse get anywhere on the trail? When does it know to turn around and go home? Are you just a passenger letting the horse go wherever it wants to? How do you turn left? How do you back up?


She gets places by putting one foot in front of the other. Now I may tell her what pace to go, to move to one side or another, to take the left fork instead of the right, to follow a particular path through trees & bushes when we're off-trail - but I'm NOT telling her which foot goes first. Or sometimes I may indeed just be a passenger, talking with my friend or admiring the scenery while she does the walking. If I want to turn left, I tell her to turn. I don't control each body part that has to move in order to make that turn. I wouldn't even know how to control the parts.



> Are you riding a green horse or an experienced trail horse? Do you think you could just tell a green horse walk, trot, canter? Clearly, you are reaping the rewards of someone's hard work.


She's an experienced horse, but not, I think, an experienced trail horse. I don't know any of her history before I got her, other than that she spent several years living in a field and not being ridden, but I suspect that at one point she may have been trained for dressage or showing. Certainly a lot of things out on the trails seem new to her.

There's an example of intention vs control of body parts. The first time we came to a creek (just a little one, about a foot wide), she would not cross it. I could not (not surprising given my inexperience) get her to cross, nor could my vastly more experienced buddy/teacher. But after about half an hour of trying, I got off and led her back & forth across it a dozen times, then got back on and she went right over and has never had a problem with creek crossing since.

Now if I'd had that 100% control you talk about, she should have gone across that scary thing right away, no? Suppose the next scary thing that I pushed her into turned out to be a serious hazard? 

I agree, it's training, but what exactly are you training for? There I did a little bit of training to teach her that little creeks aren't a threat, and it's ok to jump over or wade through them. I didn't do 100% control of body parts: "Ok, bunch up your hind quarters, and extend your front legs while pushing off from the rear, and now when the front hooves hit the ground pull the back legs in..." 

And how would you teach creek-crossing in an arena, anyway? Or how to react to cows, deer, cattle guards...?


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Ah, I think we are having a break through, james! You are controlling your horse, you are just calling it something different. You want to call it directing the intention, fine. 

I do think you are missing the point a tiny bit, though. What happened at the creek? She balked because she didn't want to cross. You did whatever you had to do to get her across the creek. Even if you had to get off and lead her across, you were controlling her feet. Directing her where to go. If you keep working on it, you will accomplish that from the saddle. The point is you controlled where she was going by getting her body from point a to point b. You didn't say "oh geez, she doesn't want to go across the creek, I 'spose we ought to meander home". Does that make sense?

What I am not suggesting is that all horses should automatically just do what I say. First, it is my job to teach them what my aids mean. After they have demonstrated that they understand that aid, they better respond to that aid every time I ask them to. If they can't, then I have to take a step back, break it down and reteach. If I am going out on a trail ride I certainly want to be able to stop, back, turn. How do you turn a horse without controlling the shoulder and hip? You say you pick up the reins and apply pressure. Or maybe a leg aid is applied. That, my friend, is controlling the horse's body parts. 

Groundwork is important because it ultimately has nothing to do with whether you are presenting them with a trailer, a tarp to cross, a creek to cross, a dead log blocking the trail. Groundwork prepares your horse to look to you for direction. If you prepare them right and send them somewhere with your aids, they should listen, whether you are sending them in the trailer, across a tarp or across a creek, because you have control of their feet, shoulders, hips, what have you. 

You can certainly train these things absolutely anywhere. No roundpen or fancy arena required.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Groundwork will teach a horse that to respond and yield to your cues, and to respect you. I certainly wouldn't ride out on a horse that I felt I couldn't control to some degree. However, I don't think you necessarily build trust in an arena.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Sahara said:


> Ah, I think we are having a break through, james! You are controlling your horse, you are just calling it something different. You want to call it directing the intention, fine.


Yes, but the point I've been trying to make is that I'm controlling the horse, not the horse's body parts. She controls those, and does what is necessary to carry out the intent that I've communicated to her. 



> What happened at the creek? She balked because she didn't want to cross. You did whatever you had to do to get her across the creek. Even if you had to get off and lead her across, you were controlling her feet.


I suppose in a sense, but I just don't think of it that way. What I controlled was her willingness to cross (presumably because I'd spent a lot of time walking with her on a lead, and when she could see me step across, she knew it was ok). Whether she made a small jump or just took a long step was irrelevant that time. (I'm still far from 100% at being able to tell her whether to step across something, or jump it.) Nor do I really think of it in terms of control, more like persuasion, but I suppose that's just a language thing.



> What I am not suggesting is that all horses should automatically just do what I say. First, it is my job to teach them what my aids mean.


Sure, though I'm kind of coming at it from the opposite direction: she has lots more experience at being a horse than I do at riding, so it's more a matter of me figuring out what aids she's been trained to understand.



> How do you turn a horse without controlling the shoulder and hip? You say you pick up the reins and apply pressure. Or maybe a leg aid is applied. That, my friend, is controlling the horse's body parts.


Depends on how much of a turn I want. If it's something like weaving through trees, it's maybe a little pressure on the reins & a bit of shifting body weight. Sometimes I'm not even fully aware that I'm doing anything, it's almost like she's reading my mind. Other times, as for instance when I want her to turn and ride away from the other horses (which I try to do a time or two on most rides), I have to get a good bit more emphatic with rein & leg. That's more like what I'd call control.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> Yes, but the point I've been trying to make is that I'm controlling the horse, not the horse's body parts. .


For me, there isn't a distinction between the horse and it's body parts. I treat it as a whole, including the mind and spirit.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

What you all don't seem to get is that you cannot control a horse if you cannot move every part of it, for example, move the hip, shoulder, etc. It is, in the simplest way-a sum of its parts.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

In reading, I often notice a difference in how those sports focused on arena riding describe things, and how trail riders tend to describe it. Lots of books discuss controlling the horse's parts, but they mostly are focused on arena riding. When you ride in front of a judge, getting each step and pace just right is the difference in winning or not.

Most trail riders describe setting the goals for the horse - down this trail this way, up the hill at this point, etc. And then the horse is expected to figure out how to get the job done. 

Riding Mia today (who has now gone two rides in a row without doing a single OMG Crouch...I wonder if she is sick :shock, what part of the trail she walked on or how we got up some small but steep spots was totally up to her. All I did was indicate where I wanted to be 20-30 seconds later...the how was up to her. The only hard rule I enforced today was that all stops had to be done right away, with feet squared up, and we weren't going anywhere until the tension left her back. Other than that, we spent the morning with a slack rein and a lot of freedom for her. If she really started to fixate somewhere, I'd tap the reins and then have her trot or stop & look back at me.

I don't even know the names of most maneuvers. I have no idea how to signal 'put a foot there'. If we need to move sideways off the trail, I just kind of shove with one leg while not letting her go forward. There is usually a reason for it (approaching ATV, typically) and she usually figures it out. If I tried to move her sideways in an arena, I don't think she would be able to figure it out. What makes it work on the trail is that I'm suggesting something that makes sense for what is going on, and those external cues help her to understand and go along.

Maybe someday we'll reach a higher level of riding. Me? Heck, I'm celebrating 2 rides in a row without an OMG Crouch! In 4 years, I think that is the longest we've ever gone....:clap:


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

^^^^^^ Yes!

bsms...I think my Missy is a twin of your Mia.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> What you all don't seem to get is that you cannot control a horse if you cannot move every part of it, for example, move the hip, shoulder, etc. It is, in the simplest way-a sum of its parts.


Sorry. I cannot tell Mia to move her right shoulder to spot X. But we can and do ride. My daughter cannot tell Trooper to move his left hip over to spot Y either, but Trooper has a lot of miles of riding on ranches and with my daughter. That may well mean we're low-level riders, but Trooper will go most anywhere you point him at, and Mia is slowly improving. I've spent too many hours working on Mia's confidence outside the arena to put trail riding on hold until I can put her right shoulder over point X on command. The beauty of trail riding is that most of what I ask her has a reason for it, and she appreciates that.

Ask her to do figure 8s around cones in an arena, and Mia will get ****ed off. I have actually heard her say, "Why in the hell should I work so hard when we aren't going anywhere?" :lol:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

BSMS-What you are doing is fine, but perhaps you can aim for more control over her. There are times when I am on a trail when I need to move a hip or shoulder. For example-to open a gate, avoid an obstacle, etc. I do quite a bit of trail riding, and train some of the maneuvers we need for reining and arena riding while out there. It keeps both of us thinking, and we really don't have much of an arena where I board. 

I have also done trail trials, and you really NEED to be able to move the parts of your horse if you are trying to do some of those maneuvers.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Mia and I will undoubtedly work on having more precise control. Right now, our arena work consists of getting her comfortable with cantering, working on my lower back's flexibility, and trying to make every stop a perfect stop.

I am not in any way opposed to gaining as much control over your horse as possible, and I agree that more control results in greater safety on the trail. My point was simply that I would not wait for perfection (or 100% control of every body part) before taking her out on the trails.

The worst ride I ever had on Mia was in an arena. Lots of little things - a guy moving his trash can, some kids riding a bicycle past, birds, and who knows what all - added up until she melted down. In an arena. As in 2 hours of non-stop motion. Uncounted bolts. Diarrhea all over the arena. My oldest daughter at one point shouted out, "This isn't going to be good! Her eyes are rolling like a slot machine's!" In the end, after sunset (!) I jumped off. I cranked her head around tight, put a wrap of rein around the horn, and bailed as she tried to straighten out and build speed. And as soon as she saw me on the ground, she ran to me, stopped, put her head next to me, and waited for the bad things to go away.

That was the beginning of 8 months without riding her, while I worked to improve my riding. Then I hired a trainer, who after a week of work concluded Mia had never been broken to ride. Then 2 months of breaking her to ride via ground work, and then mounting again in Jan 2012. By that time, I had been leading her off property for about 3 months. Our first ride off property was in March 2012, and we only went 100 yards. By June, we were doing about 5 miles, but only with another horse.

The trail work has been critical for her. The confidence that is slowly building as we face challenges and fears and slowly overcome them together has been essential. She is now about 90% calm in the arena. 

Off property, a car can zip by her at 50 mph without her blinking. She still gets overwhelmed at times, but never yet so bad that either Trooper couldn't ride by and show her, or that I couldn't back her up, dismount, and lead her past it. But if I had waited for total control in the arena, we would still be working on it. And we might never get there, because the arena doesn't have enough new things to build her confidence.

The calm and trust we've built off property is what has made it possible for us to work on cantering in the arena without having it turn into a bolt. And I cannot imagine Mia ever strolling down the trail, a cigarette hanging out the corner of her mouth, half-asleep. Trooper does that almost every ride. Mia? That isn't in her nature.

Eventually, we'll work on more refinement. I suspect I'll be able to go out when Mia is 26 (hmmm...I'll be 69 then) and still have a goal to work on with her. But I needed to get her out into the desert and facing fears over and beyond her imagination.

I'm not an 'all arena' or 'all trail' kind of guy. I think both are critical to developing a good horse. Mia was 11 when she was broken to ride, although I had ridden her a lot before. And while I eventually want to be able to say, "Put your right front hoof here", most of our riding will remain, "Let's see what is over there...." And she will decide what she needs to do to get there.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

That is the great thing about horses. You can take it as far as you want as in a finished bridle horse or you can have a weekly hack on a one speed horse. There is something for everyone. If you are happy to get through 2 rides without the OMG crouch and that's enough for you then that's great. Personally, I have watched too many Buck Brannaman DVDs and I want a horse as soft and responsive as his!! Lol


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Sahara, I pretty sure I'm suffering from the same thing.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

OP

The important thing is that you and your horse stay safe. If you don't have control of your horse or you aren't confident, then you may want to consider riding with a buddy until you do become confident or able.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

bsms said:


> IMost trail riders describe setting the goals for the horse - down this trail this way, up the hill at this point, etc. And then the horse is expected to figure out how to get the job done.


That's exactly it! 



> ..how we got up some small but steep spots was totally up to her.


Yeah, because I'm completely occupied with hanging on for dear life  One of the perils of riding with someone who has maybe half a century of experience: what looks easy to her is sometimes more than a little nerve-wracking to me. 



> I don't even know the names of most maneuvers. I have no idea how to signal 'put a foot there'.


Same here, or maybe even more so. I guess I learned to ride (to the extent I have learned) in the same way I learned how to swim: by being tossed into a deep hole in the creek. I survived, now I can learn some of the fancy strokes


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I have to admit- I go out on trail alone a lot. A lot a lot more than it sounds like some, maybe many of the folks on here might think was safe or a good idea. Unfortunately, I am not really an arena person, and my training and schedule doesn't really match up with others' so it's go out alone or don't ride. I choose to ride. 

My horse is (was?) green broke, and I am (was?) hardly past green myself, but we go out and ride past scary stuff all the time. The key is that my horse is honest and willing and I'm brave (stupid). So he trusts that I have everything in hand and will choose the safe choices for us both and I pretend that I know what is going on and have any idea what I'm doing. I let him choose the how, and I choose the where and how fast. Sometimes this involves mud or slippery rock or steep grades- I give him his head and trust him to keep himself between me and the ground. He trusts that there's an end to the madness and I'll eventually get him back to the nice safe barn. We both recognize that falling off cliffs or running into barbed wire is probably something we'd rather avoid.

I wouldn't say that I control every part of him, though I can now proudly say we do have side-passing and lateral skills well in hand, including working gates. But, we do have a relationship, a habit as someone else put it, where I am in charge and I will let him look if he likes, but his feet can't stop or change from the speed I previously asked for. He knows it, I know it, and though he has surprised me with skills previously unknown (trotting sideways, for example) when something startled him, he is in the habit of obeying and following our established agreement despite all the new (potentially scary) things we see on a regular basis.

You've gotta put miles in on the trail to get a good trail horse, no two ways about it IMO.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I have to remember to take pics on my little tramples down through the neighborhood. I got Trusty out for another ride yesterday evening for 3 miles. One of the roads we went on is dirt and ends at the highway. Apparently the county has been building drain offs out of concrete on either side of the road and had the bales of hay staked down to halt erosion. 

Trusty has seen sq bales before, but apparently none with short sticks rising up out of them. He did not want to go between the horse eaters which gave me an opportunity to work on him trusting me. Every time he would try to back or turn then circles was what he got then release when he was facing the bales. After about 5 minutes he finally stutter stepped his way up between them all while heavy traffic was going by on the highway. None of which bothered him in the least.

Once we got past them I had him go past them a couple times each and then sent him right over the top of them without even so much as a huff. Proud I tell you!


Here he is when we got back and let my 12 year old have a go around the yard him. He is amazing to me and I must be honest that I teared up as I watched my itty bitty baby girl looking so grown up on him.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

^^ you're gonna need a new horse, Roadyy.....;-)


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> ^^ you're gonna need a new horse, Roadyy.....;-)


Haha,,yeah, no doubt. She adores him to pieces as she says. She sits at the gate to wait til I'm ready to head out for a ride and sits there waiting for me to come back hoping she can ride before putting him back out with his herd.

I think I will saddle him up and walk along side her on him around part of the neighborhood tomorrow just to give me the walking exercise I need. lol I could stand to lose a pound or 20. I've got other plans already this evening so I will miss out today and the wife doesn't have enough trust in herself or the horses to do it.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm not sure how but my first post in here was originally typed while reading the 2013 riding log thread. I don't know how it got put in here and my apologies as I read my comment and frankandbeans posts I immediately thought I was was, again, in the other thread and typed my second response.. I did not mean to post like this in your thread.
Strange....


P.S. I tried to dislike your post frankandbeans..lol I don't want to find another horse...<walks away stomping feet>


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Achhh... all this talk about control and precise movements on the trail. Bah humbug! 
I go out, flip the proverbial coin and head in a direction. If there is something in the way, we figure out how to get around, go over, under or through. If the horse can't figure out where to put her feet on the trail, then she'd better figure it out for herself because I'm watching the trail up ahead, the wildlife, the scenery and generally enjoying myself. And if she goes to close to a tree, she finds out very quickly how much I don't like getting my knee whacked. She doesn't do that as often anymore. LOL. 

I trail ride precisely for the reason that neither I nor my horse have to be precise. If I wanted to do precision, I'd do something else.

Not everyone is like me, but not everyone is like you (generic). What works for you, doesn't work for me. And that's OK.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Speaking of behaving on the trail, took Mr. Scotty Too Hotty on his favvy trail that he will take every opportunity to prancey dancey around on. I usually do his flexing & circling to sort him out, takes about 5 or 10 mins to get him to Mr. Scotty Too Smoothy again. This time I just took him off the trail and right into the bush through the brush & deadfalsl and made him do a loop through that. Worked like a charm, hot to smooth, record time.


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

Ignore this post.


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## BoldComic (Feb 26, 2012)

Wow, that was a lot of pages of posts to read. My OTTB goes great on trails when he is with other horses. When he is not he does the snorting and looking around OP mentioned. I've found that miles work best for us. He's always a little hot out of the gate but he calms down the farther we go. He does do the "stop and drop" now and then but it's mostly like a big flinch. Then he moves on. He's never done anything to endanger me and always seems aware of my presence. So I say, if arena works makes you feel better about going out on trails, go for it. But for Comic and I (he hates the arena) the more wet saddle blankets we make the better we both do. It seems like OP and her horse have the relationship already, I'd start logging some miles.


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