# Definition of Experienced Rider?



## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

What would you say makes a

Beginner Rider?
Intermediate Rider?
Advanced/Experienced Rider?

I am just curious because alot of horse ads say they want a rider. I just got a horse I would say I am a beginner I have riden a horse before.

What did and time amount.
Trial ride in WI 1 hour
Rode renters horse 30 min
Rode again renters horse bareback 5 mins in a stall (i was very young)
I think thats it what would you think i am?


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

I wouldn't really consider those three things qualifications for a rider. In my experience those rental horse trail rides and sitting on a horse as a passenger is a far far cry from really "riding" one. 

There's nothing wrong with that, we all have to start somewhere


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## Tessa T (Aug 6, 2010)

Well I have no way to say if that's beginner or not, but that's what I would say? I'm kind of in the same boat. Lol I am going on a beach ride next Saturday, and the stable is going to ask if I'm a beginner, intermediate or advanced rider in order to match me with the right horse. I don't know if I should say beginner or intermediate. 

I have ridden several ponies as a child.
I rode a 15.2hh horse when I was 8, and I also showed her in halter. I used to trade stall cleaning and grooming for lessons which lasted about 6 months.
I then started helping a neighbor with her horses at about 10. I rode their 13.3hh pony bareback and slid off several times. He was finicky and he never took over the situation so they said I had potential.
Then I rode their 16.0hh bareback as well with a halter and lead and had some good gallops. I did this for about a year.
I got my own horses when I was 13, but they were ponies and too small to ride. One of them went to a friend of mine who raises minis to learn how to drive and I rode her huge 17.hh horse maybe three times? I have had Anthem for about 2 years now and haven't ridden since I was 15. I'm 18 and still remember what its like, but I'm not sure how I rate, so I'm kinda where you are lucky2008.  Sorry I kinda commandeered your thread, but I'm also curious where I stand on the horse riding skill scale.


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## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

Deerly said:


> I wouldn't really consider those three things qualifications for a rider. In my experience those rental horse trail rides and sitting on a horse as a passenger is a far far cry from really "riding" one.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with that, we all have to start somewhere


I was never a passenger and the rental horse I meant by we had someone renting half of our barn and let us have a few rides.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SPhorsemanship (Apr 5, 2010)

You are a beginner. You are a beginner until after a few years of riding. Can you correct horse, achieve a small level of contact, impulsion, balance? Can you ride a horse that bucks, or bolts. Can you ride a hot horse? Can you ride a spooky horse? Can you lunge a horse? Do you even have a proper riding position? Do you ride by pulling the reins or using your seat? Do you know what hyperflexion is? Do you know what bend is? Do you know what roundness is?...


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

lucky2008 said:


> I was never a passenger and the rental horse I meant by we had someone renting half of our barn and let us have a few rides.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok  Still... a total of 1 hour and 35 minutes on the back of a horse isn't much to go on for worrying about how "experienced" you are. Your best bet is to take some lessons and you can ask the trainer to let you know where your strengths and weaknesses are and how you can improve on them. 

Experience comes from experience (lol) and without one you can't be the other. It takes time and work and patience and a lot of different experiences but it's so much fun


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## SPhorsemanship (Apr 5, 2010)

lucky2008 said:


> Rode again renters horse bareback 5 mins in a stall (i was very young)


That wouldn't even count. How can you *ride *a horse in a stall. So you sat on a horse's back without a saddle?


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I'd say you're a beginner. An intermediat (i'd say, in general) is someone who can handle a horse pretty well for the most part. They are good at catching, saddling, making the horse walk, trot, lope, gallop as well as slow down & stop all on their own. They're also able to balance &keep their seat through all the paces.
An experienced rider would probably be someone who is good at handling many different horses of different experience levels in any situation, as well as being good at solving problems & training from both ground & saddle. 
Not everyone knows everything, though, & there is _always_ more to learn.
This is just an overal statement lol. Not a _rule _by any means.


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## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

SPhorsemanship- you seem like a really nice person.


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## Tessa T (Aug 6, 2010)

SPhorsemanship said:


> That wouldn't even count. How can you *ride *a horse in a stall. So you sat on a horse's back without a saddle?


I agree that sitting on a horse and not moving is not really riding, but lighten up a little. She's not claiming to be the best out there, she just wants to know where you think she stands. Beginner has the word "begin" in it. Meaning The start, the first, and you have to start somewhere, she had the courage to get on a horse which is a lot more than I can say for some people I know. Maybe not a spooky, hot, or bolting horse, but many who would they that hey are advanced riders never have either.


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## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

lilruffian said:


> I'd say you're a beginner. An intermediat (i'd say, in general) is someone who can handle a horse pretty well for the most part. They are good at catching, saddling, making the horse walk, trot, lope, gallop as well as slow down & stop all on their own. They're also able to balance &keep their seat through all the paces.
> An experienced rider would probably be someone who is good at handling many different horses of different experience levels in any situation, as well as being good at solving problems & training from both ground & saddle.
> Not everyone knows everything, though, & there is _always_ more to learn.
> This is just an overal statement lol. Not a _rule _by any means.


thank you so much you actually answered the whole question


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## SPhorsemanship (Apr 5, 2010)

Ok guys, I'm sorry, I came out pretty mean but I just really hate it when kids think they are really good and start "training" a pony and buy their own horse with no experience.


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

SPhorsemanship said:


> Ok guys, I'm sorry, I came out pretty mean but I just really hate it when kids think they are really good and start "training" a pony and buy their own horse with no experience.


I think that is a fair worry as this user has listed that they own a 2 year old horse in their profile :?

Edit: I totally understand the fascination with wanting to be "experienced" and good right off the bat. I think most children are that way - I totally was! My parents were always having to remind me that no... I wasn't just as good as the people on TV just because I was starting to jump in lessons XD

I think it's much healthier to enjoy your time around horses, whatever you can get, and do your very best to learn all you can without being obsessed or focused on labels or what you can or cannot tell other people about how great you are.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Tessa T said:


> Well I have no way to say if that's beginner or not, but that's what I would say? I'm kind of in the same boat. Lol I am going on a beach ride next Saturday, and the stable is going to ask if I'm a beginner, intermediate or advanced rider in order to match me with the right horse. I don't know if I should say beginner or intermediate.
> 
> I have ridden several ponies as a child.
> I rode a 15.2hh horse when I was 8, and I also showed her in halter. I used to trade stall cleaning and grooming for lessons which lasted about 6 months.
> ...


I have been riding for 16+ years and I still tell the people at trail riding/beach riding stables that I am a beginner. In my experience, when you tell them you are anything but, you will spend your whole ride fighting a hard horse and not enjoying the ride. Its much more fun to get yourself on a push button horse who just wants to do his job and go home.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I wouldn't put a time frame on anything either lol. I know people who've ridden/ even owned horses for years but are still beginners because they never ride! One girl inparticular who had horses since she was a young kid, but most werent broke or she only went riding with friends (never alone) who to this day can't handle a horse going faster than a trot!
I think that you can easily move from beginner to intermediat fairly quickly if you ride alot & have the proper guidance. Everyone's different though.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

corinowalk said:


> I have been riding for 16+ years and I still tell the people at trail riding/beach riding stables that I am a beginner. In my experience, when you tell them you are anything but, you will spend your whole ride fighting a hard horse and not enjoying the ride. Its much more fun to get yourself on a push button horse who just wants to do his job and go home.


 Too true lol. They always want to give you the difficult ones!:lol:
I know a not-too-smart guy who went riding at a stable once (he had been on a horse all of 2 times in his life) & when the guide asked whatexperience level he was, he (being a cocky lil bonehead) told him experienced!
Ha! Let's just say it didn't go well for him:lol:


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## Tessa T (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks, corinowalk. I feel that way too. I have ridden bolting, anxious horses before and I would rather not have to deal with that when I'm trying to relax. Lol


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## SPhorsemanship (Apr 5, 2010)

beginner= just started riding, learning

advanced beginner= can ride walk, trot, canter on a good horse and has basic knowledge of grooming and tacking up a horse.

beginner intermediate: Has a more solid seat, walk, trot, canter. Knows more about horse care, tacking up, and riding. Can do jumping and can ride a more difficult horse. The should also have good ground skills. 

Intermediate: Starting to ride with an independent seat, learning about contact, impulsion and balance. Learning how to get the horse on the bit. Can jump higher now and handle hot horses on the ground and in the saddle.

advanced intermediate: Riding the horse on the bit that is already trained, can jump higher(if they jump). Can handle a hot horse, learning to ride with their seat more. They can get a horse better on the bit. They can start learning about training horses and can be properly riding green horses and more advanced horses.

Advanced/experienced: Have been on many different horses, have excellent skills on the ground and in the saddle. Can ride much more difficult horses and do more advanced movements in dressage or jump higher. Have a sense of balance, impulsion, and are collecting horses. They also have knowledge of nutrition, first aid, training, lunging, use or training aids properly.

Expert: can handle any horse, train horses.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Deerly said:


> I wouldn't really consider those three things qualifications for a rider. In my experience those rental horse trail rides and sitting on a horse as a passenger is a far far cry from really "riding" one.


That made me laugh! :lol: I definitely agree though. 

I think everyone understand it in own way. Say, if you can't ride dressage, or don't know how to post, or can't run the barrels, but can manage (successfully) a bucking or rearing horse or ride through the bolt, does THAT make you a good rider? And in opposite I've seen dressage and jumping riders on competition, who couldn't stay on (or barely could stay on) when a horse gave a REAL buck couple times in row. Does THAT make them bad riders?


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## Tessa T (Aug 6, 2010)

SPhorsemanship said:


> beginner= just started riding, learning
> 
> advanced beginner= can ride walk, trot, canter on a good horse and has basic knowledge of grooming and tacking up a horse.
> 
> ...


 
A lot of this stuff makes sense, but what if the person riding doesn't consider jumping a qualification to be an advanced/experienced rider? Or did you mean an advanced rider would be able to hold on if a horse jumped over something? And you also have to remember all horses are different. And the nutrition and first aid don't seem like part of riding to me unless your horse needs first aid on the ride. It seems more like general horse knowledge.


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## Tessa T (Aug 6, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> That made me laugh! :lol: I definitely agree though.
> 
> I think everyone understand it in own way. Say, if you can't ride dressage, or don't know how to post, or can't run the barrels, but can manage (successfully) a bucking or rearing horse or ride through the bolt, does THAT make you a good rider? And in opposite I've seen dressage and jumping riders on competition, who couldn't stay on (or barely could stay on) when a horse gave a REAL buck couple times in row. Does THAT make them bad riders?


I agree, What makes someone a non experienced rider? If they can't do fancy jumping ore dressage but can communicate with their horse without a whip or train a horse from the ground up without any experience and make them a great trail horse it seems that's impressive.


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## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

SPhorsemanship said:


> Ok guys, I'm sorry, I came out pretty mean but I just really hate it when kids think they are really good and start "training" a pony and buy their own horse with no experience.


He is going to be professionally trained
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

Tessa T said:


> I agree, What makes someone a non experienced rider? If they can't do fancy jumping ore dressage but can communicate with their horse without a whip or train a horse from the ground up without any experience and make them a great trail horse it seems that's impressive.


No... what makes someone an unexperienced rider is having no experience... :wink:

I don't think you can laundry list qualifications in a generic sense. Maybe related to a specific discipline to determine skill level w/in that specific discipline but when you are talking about generic "horse riding" that approach doesn't really work.

How "experienced" you are depends on how many things you have experienced. This can include gaits of a horse, disciplines of riding, sports, issues, successes, places to ride and training. You can't be experienced without experiencing things but it's all relative.

The more experience you have doesn't always correlate to being a better rider. It's how you handle that experience and use it to improve and move forward and learn.

IMO a rider is someone who is always training and learning and moving forward - experiencing things. If you aren't doing that yet then you have no riding experience so no riding experience level.


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## Tessa T (Aug 6, 2010)

Deerly said:


> No... what makes someone an unexperienced rider is having no experience... :wink:
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## SPhorsemanship (Apr 5, 2010)

Tessa T said:


> A lot of this stuff makes sense, but what if the person riding doesn't consider jumping a qualification to be an advanced/experienced rider? Or did you mean an advanced rider would be able to hold on if a horse jumped over something? And you also have to remember all horses are different. And the nutrition and first aid don't seem like part of riding to me unless your horse needs first aid on the ride. It seems more like general horse knowledge.


For the jumping, it is if you are a jumper and that you don't have to be able to jump *every* horse. Also, for the nutrition and first aid, I personally think that if you are that level you should know this. It's hard to say what an experienced rider is overall because it is so different in every discipline.


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## SPhorsemanship (Apr 5, 2010)

lucky2008 said:


> He is going to be professionally trained
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's good! sorry that a forgot to multi-quote


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## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

SPhorsemanship said:


> That's good! sorry that a forgot to multi-quote


It's ok but I would never train my own horse at my age I would only help and he will always be taken care of by experienced people cause he is being boarded.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dedebird (May 21, 2010)

how old are you cause my friend and her sister who are 12 and 15 (i think) are gonna buy a cheap horse train it and resale it for more money lol i know i couldn't do that but mabye they can


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## SPhorsemanship (Apr 5, 2010)

dedebird said:


> how old are you cause my friend and her sister who are 12 and 15 (i think) are gonna buy a cheap horse train it and resale it for more money lol i know i couldn't do that but mabye they can


How experienced are they? It will not work out, if anything they will probably lose money. You have to be a professional to profit off of that.


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## lucky2008 (Aug 17, 2010)

dedebird said:


> how old are you cause my friend and her sister who are 12 and 15 (i think) are gonna buy a cheap horse train it and resale it for more money lol i know i couldn't do that but mabye they can


15
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Ahhh the trials of youth. If you actually ran the numbers on a 'cheap' horse they would realize that they are *ALL* expensive! 

Just as an example...my last horse Nico

Bought for $300...Papered QH with running bloodlines. Great looking, good conformation...green reclaim as in he had been trained but sat for over a year without so much as a brush turned on him. 

It took me 7 months to get him really going well. In the end, he was able to run a great pattern, trail ride, do basic lateral moves. Started him on jumping as something else to do with him. Could have done well in most western disciplines but wasnt built like your average "english" horse though his movement was spot on for dressage.

I sold him last week for $1400. That was more than what I was asking because I had two people who both wanted him. That is RARE. 

So, on the surface you would say I 'made' $1100 on him, right? WRONG! His board for 7 months was more than the $1400 I got for him. Not to mention trimmings every 6 weeks (4 trims at $40) $160. Vet bills for shots/coggins/teeth/bloodtests $400. Time...I cant even get into how much time I spent working with him. Specialized feed $300 over 7 months. 

In the end, a horse that on the outside looks like I turned a profit on...I actually lost quite a bit of money on. I don't see it that way as he was never intended to be a 'flip' project. I gained a ton of experience working with him and learned the ins and outs of a hot horse. And I loved him...thats priceless. I sold him because I lost my "real" job and needed the cash. Its a cruel world. 

I wish your sister and her friend best of luck but they also need to consider that not many people are going to pay top dollar for a horse that a 12 and 15 year old has trained. Its mean to say but its the truth.


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## shaker (May 22, 2010)

When in doubt go with beginner. Trying to act like you know more than you do will not help you learn, and could get you put on a horse you can't handle. Leaving you with a bad experience.

It really depends on the person, I have seen people like myself and my daughter go from knowing nothing at all about horses to being able to handle a hot horse in just a few weeks time. Others take longer to build confidence. Nothing wrong with taking your time, if you rush yourself and go beyond your capabilities you are setting yourself up for trouble.

You will know when you are ready to move up from a beginner horse, because you will be getting bored with the easy walking around on auto-pilot following the horse in front of you. :lol:


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## Tessa T (Aug 6, 2010)

shaker said:


> When in doubt go with beginner. Trying to act like you know more than you do will not help you learn, and could get you put on a horse you can't handle. Leaving you with a bad experience.
> 
> It really depends on the person, I have seen people like myself and my daughter go from knowing nothing at all about horses to being able to handle a hot horse in just a few weeks time. Others take longer to build confidence. Nothing wrong with taking your time, if you rush yourself and go beyond your capabilities you are setting yourself up for trouble.
> 
> You will know when you are ready to move up from a beginner horse, because you will be getting bored with the easy walking around on auto-pilot following the horse in front of you. :lol:


Completely agree.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*The Matter of a Riding Licence*

Lucky asks the question: - 
*“What makes a novice rider, an intermediate rider or an experienced /expert rider?” *

It would perhaps be easier to ask : ‘how long is a piece of string‘. I thought of trying to answer the question as raised but I gave up because of the complexity of the answer. 

But the fact remains that when presenting oneself at a riding centre with the view to hiring a horse or to taking a lesson it is a very important question for which the rider should have to hand an honest and accurate answer. It is equally important for the riding centre manager to have some conformation as to the rider’s competence, It is also important that the rider neither understates his/her ability nor overstates it. As we all well know, horse riding is a dangerous sport.

Surprisingly there are as yet no universal standards for making a judgement on a horse rider’s ability and knowledge and perhaps it is time that thought was given to creating some form of grading system. Elsewhere a car driver must produce a licence to hire a car but similarly a horse rider should be able to produce some certificate of competence to handle a horse outside of the training arena. 

I can understand why such a system does not yet exist but I can’t see any insurmountable obstacle to creating it should the authorities deem it to be appropriate to do so. The one problem I see to be the big difficulty is to judge and grade the performance and temperament of the horse which is, after all, the final examiner of any rider‘s ability.

My underlying concern is that if riders are not able to provide proof of competence to ride a horse in the community, then sooner or later the authorities will find reason to ban the riding of horses outside of the riding centres. 

But of course, my post doesn’t answer Lucky’s question - does it?


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## Marecare (Jan 1, 2009)

Barry Godden said:


> Lucky asks the question: -
> *“What makes a novice rider, an intermediate rider or an experienced /expert rider?” *
> 
> It would perhaps be easier to ask : ‘how long is a piece of string‘. I thought of trying to answer the question as raised but I gave up because of the complexity of the answer.
> ...



I would submit to you Barry that this "judgment" of level goes on at every performance show around the world and people are viewed in classes and the winner is judged to be at that level at that time.

They have provided the proof of competence and took the day in their chosen discipline.


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

Im not starting an argument but on the subject of young kids training young horses I agree, but im 18 and have bought a 4 year old recently to break in. I consider myself advanced intermediate maybe bit more and I have broken in other horses before both on my own and with a trainer. I dont do it for profit, more because I have the time and I like the fact that I have trained my horse myself..to my aids and wishes.. and it creates an amazing bond!

However, I still get 'adults' saying "oh your going to ruin him,your too young, you need a professional". This really annoys me as everyone has to start somewhere in terms of training a horse. I ask questions on here for advice but it doesnt mean I dont know what im doing and it doesnt mean that I shouldnt train my own horse. Im not saying SPhorsemanship is wrong to ask if the OP is training her own horse just that age is not neccessarily an indication of skill. ALthough I fully appreciate the longer you've been around, the more you learn but also, even a trainer doesnt know everything, just like me.

*Sorry for it being a bit off topic guys


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## dizzynurse (Jul 7, 2010)

For me I classify myself as a beginner. I can catch a horse, groom him, tack him up for the most part. I still need helping making sure the cinch on correctly.(tightness) I think all that is alot easier than handeling a horse from the saddle. But I am still getting comfortable and confident. I really don't think I will ever be an expert. I just wanna be as good as I can be. I want to be a good horsewoman that has a happy and healthy horse that respects me.
I do understand though about horse ads. I had someone tell me there horse would be ok for a beginner with some guidence. Not sure what they meant but I always ride with much more experienced people if thats what they meant.


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## Polo Pony Design (Aug 23, 2010)

There is no universal judgement of how advanced a rider is because there is no universal way to ride a horse - look at the US Pony Club and how much trouble they're having with their rating system just for English riders. Can you imagine how hard it would be to throw western riders into the mix as well? 

The problem is that people can be good at different things because they have focused on what they enjoy at the expense of some other aspects. To use myself as an example - I am a pretty experience flat rider, I have done it for 20 or so years and can get horses to do what I want the vast majority of the time and teach them how to do things they don't know or haven't learned. I've riden hundreds of horses over the years (mostly on the flat), good ones, bad ones, young ones, old ones, and fallen off a good number of them . I've ridden a little bit of western although with Aussie stock tack rather than the full western gear but I do own a pair of cowboy boots 

Now, I haven't done a whole bunch of jumping recently. I competed when I was young and then decided there was other stuff to do and never went back. I can still ride a horse over a jump but there is no way I would consider jumping anything but an experienced and easy horse, whereas I will ride absolutely anything on the flat. My discipline of choice has been polocrosse in which horses stop, turn and accelerate very very fast which takes as much skill as jumping, just skills that are somewhat different. 

I regularly swap tips with an eventer at our barn, even though we ride very differently so there is some overlap.

My basic point is this - there is such a range of activity that you can't judge peoples ability to ride against one universal standard, you have to look at them in relation to their chosen discipline, which means you can't really judge (for example) an eventer against a polo player because there is no one universal standard. 

My final point - riding experience is measured in years, not hours. If we were able it would probably be measured in lifetimes.


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