# wont stop pawing & reared at me



## heavyhorse (Jan 3, 2011)

ok so i have two issues with one horse, the first is..
i put a post up a couple of days ago about my horse who constantly paws the ground.. since that post i have had the vet out and ruled out any pain issues, parisites etc.the vet couldnt shed anymore light on it. i have also bought him a giant octagon shaped thing he can play with and he showed interest but didnt stop the pawing. he's a three yr old shire who i bought last week. he's in training and getting excersized every day and is out all day then stabled at night. last night i got about 2 hours sleep (the stable is right beside the house) and my patiance is wearing thin. he paws in the stable, he paws in the field but not as much, and he paws on the lead rope, in which case a gentle tap on the chest and a 'no' stop it no problem. but obviously im not getting up at 2,3,4am to give gentle tap. someone has suggested 'hobbles' but not 100% on what they are..anyone know exactly how they work? any ideas on why he's doing it and how to stop it are greatly appriciated.

the second issue... now this only happened once..
i was leading him across the yard and he was perfectly calm then with no warning he reared straight on top of me and turned and kicked. i let him stand for a minute, not knowing why he did it and a little confused as he normally has perfect manners, i thought something might have spooked him, i tried to walk him on again and he walked about 10 yards then saw the dog and lunged straight at her and started rearing and kicking again,( this horse has had dogs under its feet since it got here and never had a problem before, even letting my spanial sleep in her stall one night.) so i told the dogs to scram, and they did, thinking mabey he just took a sudden dislike, he calms down so we walk another 20 yrds into the field and he does it again. just reared straight on top of me and i dodged his hooves by inches. each time he reared he made a wierd squeeling sort of noise. a got him to the round pen and walked in and he reared again, straight at me and this time i pulled the rope through the halter and had him running before his feet hit the ground. i worked him hard for 40 minutes and by the end of it he was obviously calmed down and walked over to me and followed me round 'join up style'. he has only been here nearly two weeks now, but has never done anything like this, it was so aggessive. he's perfectly calm now so much so you wouldnt even think he was capable of it. the problem is i dont know why he did it or if its likely to happen again. any thoughts on this welcome..


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

You have a lot worse problem than pawing. You have a giant that has no respect for you and could kill you in a heartbeat. Wake up!!! Get control here or you will have to get rid of him

Drafts are usually gentle natured and 'easier' than 'hot bloods', but they do not manner themselves. They MUST have respect and look at you as their herd leader and not just 'one of the boys'.

Have you watched young horses play in the field together. They spar, rear, paw, bite, chase each other and kick each other in the ribs. This is how they establish their hierarchy or 'pecking order'. He is doing the exact same thing with you.

Now, if you watch the boys in the field, you will notice that they do not mess with the older 'boss horse' if there is one. They stay completely out of his/her way. These boss horses have established that they are in charge and had better not be messed with. That is the position you HAVE to be in to be the strong leader he needs. 

If you do not have the resolve or do not want to acquire the horsemanship skills necessary to be his herd leader, then you need to sell him and stay with older horses that have years of being well mannered and have known their place for a long time. And even these older horses will get pushier and pushier if they are not kept well behaved.

I deal with people all of the time that say "I don't want to be a trainer. I just want a trained horse and want to have fun."

Well, I have to break the news to the that they ARE a trainer whether they like it or not. Every time they interact with their horse, they are teaching it something. If that something is not good, the horse will learn bad behaviors very quickly. Even trained horses do not stay 'honest' and well mannered for ever. I've seen some very well behaved and well trained horses turn into monsters because their handler or rider did not have the skill or the resolve to keep them where they belonged in the pecking order.

You are always above a horse or below a horse in the pecking order -- never equal. You are plainly below this horse and need to be above him or you need to get rid of him before he gets more dangerous.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Very good advise by Cherie. You mentioned that your draft is a "he" - is he still intact or has he been gelded?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Cherie said:


> You have a lot worse problem than pawing. You have a giant that has no respect for you and could kill you in a heartbeat. Wake up!!! Get control here or you will have to get rid of him
> 
> Drafts are usually gentle natured and 'easier' than 'hot bloods', but they do not manner themselves. They MUST have respect and look at you as their herd leader and not just 'one of the boys'.
> 
> ...


 
^^ This-X100. 

I also was wondering if he has been gelded, not that that would make an immediate difference. Either way, you still have to establish respect.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Her other post said he was a 3 year old gelding -- but he may have been recently gelded. Either way, she is in BIG trouble without addressing the dominance / respect issue.

Cheri


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

You are right about having to gain control. It doesn't matter if he was recently gelded, is a cryptorchid, or if he was gelded at 6 months old - but it may account for his attitude and the reason for his behavior. Not that I would forgive him for his actions but at least I could attribute it to that. 

Another consideration may be his feed, specifically, the type and amount.


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## dee (Jul 30, 2009)

I had an intact pony stallion that used to do that to me. I was just a kid at the time - maybe 10? He wasn't really mine - he was my cousin's, but she left me with the mess to clean up. The pony had done the same thing to my grandmother and hurt her back pretty badly because he actually came down on top of her. I spent the entire summer at grandmother's house to help her and take care of cousin's pony. 

That thing was nasty mean, and I found the only way to get the upper hand was to be just as nasty mean. When he would rear up, I would turn and run at him yelling like a banshee. When he kicked, I kicked back. He missed - I didn't. When he tried to bite me, he got slugged in the nose. Within just a couple of weeks, even my grandmother noticed he was a different pony. Not perfect - but no longer nasty mean...unless the cousin was around - she let him get away with everything (thought it was funny), and nearly undid all the good I had done. It wound up that the pony behaved very well for me, and fortunately, for grandma by the end of the summer - but he never did behave for my cousin. Her parents sold him after he kicked her in the head. Cousin just wasn't ready for any kind of horse because she lacked the ability to see bad behavior for what it was. 

The OP obviously recognizes the bad behavior. I can't picture myself doing the things I did to that pony to a draft horse (though I've done them to my own full size horses). There is something really odd going on with the OP's horse.

What are you feeding him? I had a horse that had a problem similar to the first problem you described - the constant pawing. Had the vet check out the horse - no medical issues. We did have to change his feed program, though. She was getting way too many calories, and it made her hyper. Cut her back to just pasture or just mediocre hay, and it really made a difference. She stayed in good weight - actually better than she did on grain. Guess she didn't worry the weight off?


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

I had a horse that did this when I kept him at a place where they put their horses in stalls overnight or a majority of the time. When I moved him to a place that offered pasture board he calmed down a lot. I'm not saying he was perfect. He still needed some space lessons. But he stopped pawing and didn't fight me when I led him. 

As the others asked, what are you feeding him and how often is he turned out?


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## heavyhorse (Jan 3, 2011)

cherie,thank you for your post. i am not one of these people that think bad behaviour is funny or in any way exceptable in any shape or form and i fully intend to gain the respect and good behaviour and disipline this horse should show, and i know problems dont solve themselves, that is why i put up this post. i know horses have a very strict pecking order and a horse in my yard would never get away with the slightest misdemeaner. as my post said, i brought him straight to the round pen and worked the socks off him, to put it mildly. i also know that horses will push and test you to see 'if you are boss' so to speak, but what surprized me was how aggressive this was and completly without warning. it didnt seem like the usual 'testing my authority', it was in essence an a full on attack. i dont know if he'll try it again, if he does, apart from lunging the $*!t out of him,which is what i did, have you any other suggestions as to how to asert my authority. let it be noted that i am not afraid of disipline or harsh measures. i will do what it takes and am open and greatful for suggestions.
iridehorses & franknbeans, he was gelded bt not sure at what age..over here though they generally geld them asap. he gets 1cup of cool&easy mixed with 1 cup beet pulp, twice a day, along with hay.
dee & shutupjoe, he is excersized every day and turned out all day, only stabled at night. i will try that -just hay, and see if it helps the pawing. 
thanks for the posts.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

You could try leaving him out 24/7-at least then you would sleep!


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## heavyhorse (Jan 3, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> You could try leaving him out 24/7-at least then you would sleep!


haha, a good nights sleep sound very very tempting but i would rather get to the bottom it than ignore the problem.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

My first instinct is that hes only been with you for a short time. Most horses paw because they are anxious, afraid, angry, impatient... My guess is he is reacting to his move and not having his place yet. Horses are very ruled by rhythm and hes lost his. New home. New friends. Was he turned out 24/7 at his previous home? Was he in with lots of younger buddies to wrestle with? Was he eating at free choice there and now waiting for meals? Did the previous owners feed at 8AM and 8PM where as you feed at a different time in a different way? Any one of these things can make him anxious, afraid, angry, impatient etc... Perhaps he was near the top of the pecking order before and now hes at the bottom, this aggravates him. It could be anything. 

I would however turn the lad out 24/7 so A. he can excersize and B. you can sleep. I'd give him a buddy, too.
I would NOT hobble this horse!
Secondly, if he is getting two kitchen cups of feed as indicated, I wouldn't bother switching his feed as two cups isn't enough to fill his left ear and is very doubtedly causing him to re-act. 

Since you KNOW that OBVIOUSLY he is upset for some reason, hence the pawing, and you continue to work with him (lead him) I'd say the two are linked and he is not a vicious animal by nature, no horse is, every horse "wants" to be good. This is not an excuse, just all the more reason for you to look into WHY he is upset in the first place. If he stands around pawing its almost a no brainer to me that he'd rear at you on the lead, hes all keyed up. 

Try to keep his rutiene as simple as possible, like I said, I'd leave him outside with someone who will play with him. I would also offer him free choice hay, just something to do all the time - EAT. If you plan to groom him daily, do so at the same time every day. So he knows "At 9AM mom feeds the other horses and turns them out. At 9:30 mom fills water tanks. At 10:15 mom brushes me." Keep it short and sweet. I am only suggesting this to help him settle in, not as a life long agenda.

However, he does have to know situation be d*mned he cannot attack people and I would be having a serious talking to with him on the lead rope right then and there when he does it, not fifteen minutes later in the round pen.


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## heavyhorse (Jan 3, 2011)

thanks for the post newimage. what you said sounds pretty spot on to me.it makes sense for the aggression and pawing to be conected.i think i will just simple things up until he settles in a bit better. i know its difficult to adjust to a routine having been sitting in a field, untouched for three years.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

NOW you mention sitting in a filed un-touched for three years, That explains everything. I had a feeling of this. I am sure leaving him outside where horses belong like he is used to will do a surprising amount of good in itself. Keep everything slow, simple and find a rhythm for him/with him.


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