# Thinkin of breeding



## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

My mare is 5 years old, I'm thinking of breeding her, but I don't have a set year or anything. I'm not sure what I want to breed her too though. Any suggestions? I wanna breed her to something with some spunk but not too much. I also want something tall and build uphill. 
My mare is built downhill, and she's very calm and relaxed. Her registered name is Royal Badland Sprint. The reason I want something with more spunk is because I wanna be doing gymkahna events with it. Thanks and here are some pictures!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Is she registered?
In my humble opinion, she has front legs that I would not want to see bred in. Sorry, but she is not extraordinary to me, and doesn't scream "replicate me!" So I say no to breeding her.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Is she registered?
> In my humble opinion, she has front legs that I would not want to see bred in. Sorry, but she is not extraordinary to me, and doesn't scream "replicate me!" So I say no to breeding her.


agreed 100%. add in that she is built downhill and is just your "average" mare with a less than average conformation. please don't breed. thanks.


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## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

Thats why I want to bred her to something built uphill. 
Yes she is registered. 
I'd like to know what to breed her to because I really like her attitude and that she's really willing to please. She's also a very thickly built mare. 
She would really good at working cows, but I want something to do gymkahna. I don't wanna buy something off someone else, cause I like to raise and train my own horses. Thanks


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

There is no guarantee that your mare's personality will be imprinted on the foal.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

No offence, but there is nothing particularily 'superior' about this horse. 

Why not *buy* a new horse rather than breed another backyard pony?


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## vivache (Jun 14, 2009)

The only way to even kind of guarantee that you'll get something with the attitude you want is if you get a horse that isn't started yet. Then you could work it the way you prefer, and not have to worry about mom's conformation being carried on.


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## ChevyPrincess (Aug 27, 2009)

Okay, maybe she isn't perfect. I don't look for beauty, I look for personality. Breed her with a stallion that has a good disposition. The foal will be for _you _and only _you _so why not get a horse you want?

I think you should breed her. I totally understand where you are coming from. I have a pintaloosa colt. Most people frown on 'graded' or other horses like that, but to me, it's the personality that counts. My colt's sire was registered paint, we own him, excellent disposition (disposition is passed down) but make sure the other half, has a good disposition as well.

I say go for it =]


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## CloudsMystique (Mar 3, 2009)

ChevyPrincess said:


> Okay, maybe she isn't perfect. I don't look for beauty, I look for personality. Breed her with a stallion that has a good disposition. The foal will be for _you _and only _you _so why not get a horse you want?
> 
> I think you should breed her. I totally understand where you are coming from. I have a pintaloosa colt. Most people frown on 'graded' or other horses like that, but to me, it's the personality that counts. My colt's sire was registered paint, we own him, excellent disposition (disposition is passed down) but make sure the other half, has a good disposition as well.
> 
> I say go for it =]



I'm sorry, but it really frustrates me when people say stuff like this.

When people frown upon breeding horses with unspectacular conformation, it's NOT because they're being vain or snobby. It's not just "beauty" we're looking for, it's good conformation. Bad conformation is BAD for the horse. You can easily create an unsound, unhealthy horse by breeding horses with mediocre conformation. If you want a healthy foal, buy one who doesn't have a dam with that front end. She's a really cute mare, but she shouldn't be bred.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

Flyinghigh12 said:


> Thats why I want to bred her to something built uphill.
> Yes she is registered.
> I'd like to know what to breed her to because I really like her attitude and that she's really willing to please. She's also a very thickly built mare.
> She would really good at working cows, but I want something to do gymkahna. I don't wanna buy something off someone else, cause I like to raise and train my own horses. Thanks


if you've never bred before and do not have experience with babies, i highly suggest against it. there's not a single thing about your mare that honestly imo makes her even remotely breedworthy. her legs are too short for her frame, she's long backed, extremely downhill, and short necked with a coarse throatlatch and legs that well...are far less than perfect.

breeding to something uphill does NOT = a better conformed horse. i bred a horse with small ears to a horse with small ears and got a baby with HUGE ears. no idea where they came from but they're there now...

point being, you can breed to an uphill horse and still get a very downhill offsrping with bad legs, overly heavy body (your mare is not thick built properly - she's overly stocky which with her legs can lead to soundness issues and makes her prone to navicular and other soundness problems), short neck and squat incorrect conformation. not only will that horse not be good for gymkhana, it will also be very hard to market and sell....as a rescue i already see enough of "my mare has a great temperament and is very sweet and willing to please so i want to breed her...." please save us all the trouble and heartache.

furthermore, having a properly raised baby is in and of itself a full time job and not for the casual pleasure horse owner. it's a lot of work, with a lot of potential issues, and a HUGE amount of expense. dollar for dollar you can BUY a baby for far less than breeding one. even better - rescue one of the thousands at auction and you can spend as little as $50...no joke....or go to a breeder and get a quality one for still a great deal without the worry and stress of breeding.

is your mare tested for genetic disorders and diseases? is she hypp n/n? what are her bloodlines with regards to longevity and soundness and health? what are her sire and dam (and grandsire and granddam...etc.etc.)'s conformation flaws? not just HER flaws can be passed on to the baby, but flaws she carries the genetics for that does not display. breeding is a crapshoot and if you're lucky you get some of the good qualities from mare and stallion, but not always, and more often than not you get thrown a curve and get something completely unexpected (like my guys ears lol! thank goodness that has nothing to do with soundness!).

and if you STILL want to breed....go read the breeding risks thread. who's gonna foal her out? what are potential complications? do you know how to deal with a breech birth? a stuck foreleg or hind leg? a torn placenta? premature labor? overdue mare? what if she rejects the baby? what if the baby has a deformity of some sort? the list goes on.....

i'm sorry but you don't sound nearly educated enough to be breeding your mare....because if you were educated, you wouldn't want to breed her because you would understand she's not breeding quality. she's a nice horse, but not worthy of being bred imo.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

CloudsMystique said:


> I'm sorry, but it really frustrates me when people say stuff like this.
> 
> When people frown upon breeding horses with unspectacular conformation, it's NOT because they're being vain or snobby. It's not just "beauty" we're looking for, it's good conformation. Bad conformation is BAD for the horse. You can easily create an unsound, unhealthy horse by breeding horses with mediocre conformation. If you want a healthy foal, buy one who doesn't have a dam with that front end. She's a really cute mare, but she shouldn't be bred.


THANK YOU I AGREE! 

imo only the best of the best should be bred as there are already far too many horses out there. i don't frown on grade horses - and own several - they are GREAT. but i'd never BREED one or BREED to MAKE one. that's just bad breeding.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

here's the thread if you think you can stomach it...
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/breeding-gone-wrong-28610/


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## Barrelracer Up (May 22, 2009)

Well bred horses are selling very reasonable (some down right cheap!!) that are bred and built for what you are wanting to do. You can see them, evaluate their personality, etc........ A foal is Russian roulette.

I have a performance stallion that I am introducing next year and I am sorry, but I doubt I would breed him to your mare. I am looking for "form to function" built mares to stand him to with the goal being to produce nice, correct horses that are built to work, run, sit and turn AND have the brains and "beauty" to go with it all.
Breeding to your mare will likely produce yet another backyard plug horse that has bad conformation. A lot of these horses are done by the time they hit the teens due to joints tearing up and breaking down and other issues. Plus, if the owner doesn't know or doesn't give a rats butt, they probably need regular chiro visits to keep them aligned and help them live a long, pain free, useful life. Most correct horses benefit from regular chiro, stands to reason how much a bad confo horse could need it. A downhill horse has a lot of the rider's weight slamming down on it's shoulders and withers, which will make it carry its self differently to try to avoid the pain/discomfort, which will cause further issues in other parts of the body. Now you have a bad confo horse with multiple misalignments, that is possibly living with pain and discomfort, but is still very willing and trying to please.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't knock the backyard horses. My first horse that I did well with was a 14.2 hand, swayed back POA mare. She had a HUGE heart and tried hard for me EVERY single time out. I wanted to breed her and tried 2 seasons. I am so glad that it did not work out now that I look back. There is no guarantee that I would have gotten a foal with "heart" and there was no way I was going to get a top-notch barrel horse out of her with her conformation. Sentimentally speaking, I would love to have had a foal by her, but what I would have gotten...........

You breed correct to correct to TRY to get correct. There is still no guarantee that it will come out correct. These big ranches that are producing top-notch horses also have not-so-great foals that are culled every year. It is a crap shoot.


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## Barrelracer Up (May 22, 2009)

Your mare doesn't look that bad on paper, but you can't ride papers. Her bottomside is not as strong as her topside IMO. There are not a lot of records close up on either side. Royal Badland Sprint Quarter Horse


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

CJ82Sky and CloudsMystique, I'm right there with you.

I had a chance to breed my mare that was built very similar to yours because the stud owner liked her personality and color (*sigh*) anyways, I turned him down because I did NOT want her front end passed on.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Listen and learn, OP. 

Think about it instead of deciding to do it just for the sake of saying you did it: 'Oh, aren't I a great trainer now????'. 

Think of the mare. Think of the baby. Think of the vet bills, 5 years waiting for the baby to grow up, food, space, emergency vet bills, money for trainer, etc.

A foal is a very serious thing. Not to be taken lightly.


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## Rissa (Feb 10, 2009)

My opinion would be going down to you local auction and picking up one that already needs a home.


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## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

I've been training horses for a very long time, I've also helped someone hand breed horses. I rode the stud and the mare she bred to him, then i ended up training the baby and alot of the nonphysical traits were passed on to the baby. 

Obviously since I've just been thinking about it and wanting to know other peoples opinions. I obviously know the risks and my mare is not some backyard breeders misshap... here's her pedigree Royal Badland Sprint Quarter Horse

Now I want something that is born on the ground on my property because I want to imprint the foal the way I want it. I probably won't even breed her for another 5 years. Just forget it cause i'm not arguing with u guys on this.


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Flyinghigh12 said:


> I probably won't even breed her for another 5 years. Just forget it cause i'm not arguing with u guys on this.


Then why did you post if you apparently know everything?


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Just wanted to ask, did you really want opinions?

So it sounds to me that you just really want to raise a foal, my first suggestion would be to buy a weanling! Second suggestion, w/ the price of horses these days, why not try and buy or lease a better breeding quality mare! That way you get your foal, make better breeding choices, AND you aren't out any riding time on your mare!

What about going to an auction and rescuing a pg mare!


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## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

I wanted an opinion on what u think I should breed her to, that is all. if u don't have an opinion on it then don't share.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Flyinghigh12 said:


> I wanted an opinion on what u think I should breed her to, that is all. if u don't have an opinion on it then don't share.


She does not have great conformation, so finding a stud to "compliment" her and produce a foal that doesn't have her conformation faults is going to be very very hard.


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## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

I kno and thats why I'm giving it the time that is needed... I plan to find someone practically the opposite of what she is.. won't be easy, not a garrunteed thing yes but I will take my chances, who knows maybe I'll change my mind by next year. Just wanted to know to know.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Flyinghigh12 said:


> I kno and thats why I'm giving it the time that is needed... I plan to find someone practically the opposite of what she is.. won't be easy, not a garrunteed thing yes but I will take my chances, who knows maybe I'll change my mind by next year. Just wanted to know to know.


But - for breeding, you shouldn't HAVE to find a stud that's the "exact opposite of what she is" because your baby could come out looking mighty ugly. There is NO guarantee that the baby would be an exact mix of the two parents' features, making an incredibly balanced foal. 
Ideally you want a nice mare that has one or two minor faults that could possibly be bred out, but you'd be okay with them if they weren't. Your mare has (in my mind) some "fatal flaws" that I would never want to breed in case the foal were to inherit them; one of such flaws is the back at the knee bit. Even if you breed to a stud with straight legs, there is no guarantee that the foal wouldn't end up worse than the mare. 



Bottom line:
By saying that you want a stud that's the exact opposite of your mare, you are essentially saying that you realize your mare isn't breeding quality.... I figure this because most people wouldn't plan on breeding their mare to a crap stallion.


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## HorseOfCourse (Jul 20, 2009)

i don't believe that if somebody wants to brred THEIR horse for that horse's disposition or anything else and wants it to come out of THEIR horse then theres no such thing as 'breeding quality.' i think what the horse world needs is a few WELL TAKEN CARE OF grade horses that do what you want but don't have to look the prettiest instead of a couple pricey horses that won't listen.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

HorseOfCourse said:


> i don't believe that if somebody wants to brred THEIR horse for that horse's disposition or anything else and wants it to come out of THEIR horse then theres no such thing as 'breeding quality.' i think what the horse world needs is a few WELL TAKEN CARE OF grade horses that do what you want but don't have to look the prettiest instead of a couple pricey horses that won't listen.


Problem is, the market is already flooded with grade horses, or poorly conformed horses.

NOBODY can say for absolute certainty that they will be able to take care of a horse forever...nobody has the power to say that. 

So, having said that, why would you breed a horse that is not breeding quality to start off with, possibly end up with a foal that is not marketable to the greater majority of people, and if you ever have to get rid of said foal, the foal wouldn't have a great chance of having a happy ending?

I'm just saying, when YOU are in the position of deciding whether or not to bring another life into this world, WHY would you NOT step back and really think: am I giving this foal the best chance to survive out there??

Nowadays a horse's chances of survival (yes, LITERAL survival in our world right now - unwanted horses end up dead) are dependent on these factors: 
- Good conformation
- A good mind
- Trainability or training

Even though horses have no natural predators so to speak, the weak, untrained, lame, or crazy ones can and do get put down or sent to meat. 


Conformation plays a role in a horse's soundness. I don't like a horse that's back at the knee; that fault can cause premature lameness or arthritis. It is a flaw that, in my humble opinion, should be avoided when it comes to breeding.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

even worse than "grade horses with average conformation" are horses with seriously flawed conformation that leads to major unsoundess that limits the horse's ability to function, or even worse than that - that becomes so much of a problem it becomes fatal.

bad conformation can lead to life ending unsoundness from navicular to joint and tendon issues, and more.

furthermore, there's no guarantee that temperament will be passed on as well, and it's just a likely that a mare that's got a great mind bred to a great stallion throws a kook....because somewhere in the bloodlines that no one realized there was the genetics for a not-so-great temperament. breeding without full research and understanding of bloodlines is a fatal flaw imo, and breeding a mare that has serious conformation faults is not just a bad decision, it's potentially cruel to bring a horse into the world with major soundness issues.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Rissa said:


> My opinion would be going down to you local auction and picking up one that already needs a home.


Agreed. We have PLENTY of 3-4 months babies at the auction in Fall. And at least you know how what you are getting looks like.


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

You want a horse for its personality? Go to petfinder.com and scan through their thousands upon thousands of horses that have been abandoned, abused, and neglected and find one of _their_ personalities you like. No need to merely attempt to create your own.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

Well, I am going to buck the tide and say I don't find this mare objectionable. Taken in degrees, she is not THAT downhill. Legs too short for her body? Heck she has primarily Working/Foundation QH bloodlines-- Google up photos of her ancestry and you will see she is built like a whole pile of her prominent ancestors--and many, many of these these somewhat short legged/rectangular-framed, slightly downhill, thickly made horses lived long sound lives and were known for their good dispositions--and they undeniably helped build the QH breed into what it is known for. 

That said-- these are not necessarily MY kind of horses-- I like taller, leaner, smoother more "modern" looking stock horses with more TB influence myself-- Heck my favorite part of her pedigree is Eternal Sun, who I would consider "modern" for his day, LOL. However I respect the role these horses play in equine-dom, and I think it is just fine for breeders and owners to love them, use them, and thoughtfully breed more of them.

I would NOT go for a totally opposite stallion for her, but breed more "like to like", to avoid getting a franken-horse. I would look for a Foundation/working type AQHA stallion with some solid accomplishments (likely to be in reining, cutting, roping, and ranch horse disciplines, based on the talent and and conformation that comes with these lines), a more level topline and shorter back than your mare, and good solid correct legs and feet. I would test for HERDA if the stallion also has Poco Bueno bloodlines, to be sure you are not breeding carrier to carrier.

Here's a few examples of what might work--
Quarter Horse Stallion - Foundation Bred - Bay Badger Tivio - Cutting Roping Working Cowhorse Reining
AQHA Buckskin Stallion... Five A Jacks
Tex O Lena Chex - Black Foundation Quarter Horse NRHA Reining Champion Stallion- Krebs Quarter Horses - Scott City Kansas
https://www.quarterhorsestallions.com/im_glad_im_dun.htm
Overlook Farm Quarter Horses stallion Rock Back Jack (more Eternal Sun breeding! Woot!)

Have fun, and let us know if you DO get a foal from her-- it could certainly be a neat little all-arounder, in the tradition of its ancestry.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

A few more stallion links-- 
https://www.quarterhorsestallions.com/two_eyed_red_baron.htm
https://www.quarterhorsestallions.com/sonnys_blondy_dude.htm
JAZ POCO GOLDUN BLUE - AQHA1994 Homozygous Grullo Stallion: Key Stallion Station standing AQHA, APHA, Homozygous, World Champion Stallions in Colorado 
(his photo album) JAZ_POCO_GOLDUN_BLUE


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have to agree with Eastowest. I don't think her conformation is so horrible. I think she looks like an oldstyle QH. I have to somewhat disagree with the petfinders.com response. I have gone the route of rescues and they've worked out for me but it's not all sunshine and roses, these horses have issues, they've been mistreated and abused and they need a lot of special help. I don't think a rescue is the right way to go for a lot of people. I'm not saying only the experienced should go the rescue route, I'm just saying, it's a different mindset of person that needs to go that route. 

I'm not anti-breeding of the private horse, but I think people that choose to breed should educate themselves and make the right decisions. Make sure you do the research and ask your vet questions. You said yourself you don't even know when or "what year" you plan to breed, which to me, means you are on the right track, you aren't going to make a "seat of the pants" decision, you are going to take the time to make the right decisions so good luck to you. And don't let the negativity get you down, but definitely read the negative posts because they do have a lot of "smart points". 

She's a pretty girl by the way.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I'm going to play devils advocate and agree with easttowest and farmpony. She has some flaws, but the first thing I thought when I saw her was "what a good looking old foundation QH!" This person isn't breeding for the sake of breeding, she's recognizing some of the issues with buying a youngster and wanting to avoid them. As someone who's seen how badly someone can mess up even a weanling, I can understand this mentality. I don't think the mare is a PRIME example of good breeding material, but I think we have to face that backyard breeding IS going to be done and of the backyard horses I've seen, she's higher up on the list then most as a candidate. If she's determined to breed, at this point it may be more helpful to see if we can suggest stallions that would be decent matches.

My Arab mare has far from perfect conformation, but I do plan on breeding her eventually. Why? Because I'm an Arab person and our Arab industry is dismal at best. Would her foal sell? Absolutely - the few Arabs that are selling with proper training are selling for $4,000+ in my area because people WANT well trained Arabs. At the moment, I decided I'm not ready to breed her yet and bought a 2 year old Paint instead to play with. Let's just say thank god I'm an experienced horse person, because this filly was dangerous enough to have seriously harmed someone who found her behavior "adorable". So picking up a cheap youngster isn't always the best plan - having to deal with other peoples problems can be enormously frustrating.

I don't know if I would personally ever breed this mare, seeing as how if you're a stock person there IS an enormous influx of foals. But if she's deadset on it, I think we could find a lot worse examples of the breed, in my opinion.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

You know, I don't even know why people bother posting these "I want to breed my horse!!" posts. If you've spent anytime talking to horsepeople, you know about the overpopulation problem. If you've spent any time on this or any other forum, you've seen what happens to threads like these.

Generally, if you're knowledgeable enough to be breeding and have a horse that should be bred, you're not going to be asking us for our opinions.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Spastic_Dove said:


> You know, I don't even know why people bother posting these "I want to breed my horse!!" posts. If you've spent anytime talking to horsepeople, you know about the overpopulation problem. If you've spent any time on this or any other forum, you've seen what happens to threads like these.
> 
> *Generally, if you're knowledgeable enough to be breeding and have a horse that should be bred, you're not going to be asking us for our opinions*.


 
Bingo.


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## Eastowest (Mar 26, 2009)

_>>>> You know, I don't even know why people bother posting these "I want to breed my horse!!" posts. If you've spent anytime talking to horsepeople, you know about the overpopulation problem. If you've spent any time on this or any other forum, you've seen what happens to threads like these._

_>>>> Generally, if you're knowledgeable enough to be breeding and have a horse that should be bred, you're not going to be asking us for our opinions. _

I am going to again somewhat disagree here. Everyone has to start somewhere. How does someone GET knowledgeable without asking, listening, comparing? Not all forum members have been around the horse industry longer than dirt like some of us have (myself included-- older and plainer than, LOL).

I think that the OP was basically honest with herself and with the forum about what she liked and didn't about her mare, and what she would prefer/expect IF she decided to breed her. Her "tone", and that she was brave enough to post for opinions and keep asking after "it" all started.... said to me that she is willing to learn.

Overpopulation? The vibe I am getting from the horse folks I talk to is, while there is a glut of horses of the "lowest common denominator" type, there is generally NOT an overpopulation of good, sound, nice, well broke, well cared for, regularly ridden/ ready to ride relatively attractive "clean one owner" horses free of major issues, vices, etc., and sold with disclosures and buyer/seller communication and support...

I know in my breed of choice, the toughest thing to find right now is a good sound show prospect with some time and training on it, or a young finished/proven show horse, that is suitable for a youth or non-pro to show succesfully regionally and possibly dabble at the National level. THEN, if you also want it to be 16 hands or better, have a nice Appaloosa blanket, a pretty head and neck, and the temperament to be your best friend... well, I have talked to several trainers who wish they could find these horses in any number, as they could sell as many as they could get ahold of.

Sure you might get lucky and find a gem at an auction, but in most cases auction horses are sold without health care history or training history, little to no pedigree/breed/genetic info, and little to no explanation as to why they are being sold "anonymously" to the highest bidder. 

NOT everyone should buy at an auction. 

Frankly, if the OP is even remotely a "newbie" I would be MORE concerned with how things would turn out for her and her new horse's future buying at an auction, than if she visited with farms standing proven, registered, complementary stallions and chose one to cover the registered mare she already owns, rides, and likes. Either way she should probably enlist the help of professionals at some point, but starting with known lines, known issues, and a stallion/stallion owner with a great reputation and the willingness to offer some support is a far better choice IMO than risking all of the "unknowns" of "saving" a horse from the auction.

Of course another option would be the OP shopping for a youngster from a reputable well established breeder. To me, that is a better way to support/reward responsible breeders-- rather than possibly helping irresponsible breeders clear out yet another year of their mass-produced foals, so they can go on and "make room" for the next crop thats already on the way. 

But the OP didn't ask for input on buying options. She asked for input on breeding her mare, so thats where I went with it .


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Is she registered?
> In my humble opinion, she has front legs that I would not want to see bred in. Sorry, but she is not extraordinary to me, and doesn't scream "replicate me!" So I say no to breeding her.


Agree completely. She looks downhill. I'd say no to breeding her as well.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I guess my little rant wasn't directly focused at the OP. 
Just the threads in general that end up being a breeding battle.
You are absolutely right, there is not an overpopulation of good, trained, horses. However there is an overpopulation of mediocre horses. 
I also would not suggest an auction. I've been around auctions and horses for quite a while and I'm still weary of auctions. However, I do think that if you were looking for a gaming horse, in this situation, the best bet would to go buy one privately.

Again, sorry for using this thread to rant, because if the OP genuiniely did want to just learn more about what would compliment horse X and learn about more breeding, good for her. (Though there are probably better places for information)


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

...so we should create a new forum rule that says something to the effect of...

Due to the fact that some of our members feel that breeding should be against the law... unless you are well educated, sufficiently wealthy (bank statments must be provided), own a huge breeding facility and own a horse that has terrific bloodlines (papers a must!) and has been inspected by the squad of inspectors for the breeding of horses that were, of course rescued, and are now perfect for breeding, OH! and you have to show them so they have great records, becuase if they don't have records....

Did I miss anything? Was that a rant? that was rant...but it was kind of fun... deep breath... I feel better now!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> *I don't think a rescue is the right way to go for a lot of people.* I'm not saying only the experienced should go the rescue route, I'm just saying, it's a different mindset of person that needs to go that route.


I have to disagree with you on that. Most people I know own rescues. It all depends on what you are getting. Some rescues have some great horses nothing at all wrong with (just ended up in bad situation or at the auction). But some rescued horses are true rescues with lots of issues. One of our local rescues in fact put horse in sleep if there is nothing can be done about training/changing horse's mind (they try first, of course).


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Generally, if you're knowledgeable enough to be breeding and have a horse that should be bred,* you're not going to be asking us for our opinions.*


But if you do prepare to hear ALL kinds of opinions. Everyone has a right to express one (whether it's positive or negative).


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

^ Aparently, OP did not take that into consideration when she posted this pointless thread.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

farmpony84 said:


> ...so we should create a new forum rule that says something to the effect of...
> 
> Due to the fact that some of our members feel that breeding should be against the law... unless you are well educated, sufficiently wealthy (bank statments must be provided), own a huge breeding facility and own a horse that has terrific bloodlines (papers a must!) and has been inspected by the squad of inspectors for the breeding of horses that were, of course rescued, and are now perfect for breeding, OH! and you have to show them so they have great records, becuase if they don't have records....
> 
> Did I miss anything? Was that a rant? that was rant...but it was kind of fun... deep breath... I feel better now!


You forgot about terrific (and matching) conformation for both parents! :lol:


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> ...so we should create a new forum rule that says something to the effect of...
> 
> Due to the fact that some of our members feel that breeding should be against the law... unless you are well educated, sufficiently wealthy (bank statments must be provided), own a huge breeding facility and own a horse that has terrific bloodlines (papers a must!) and has been inspected by the squad of inspectors for the breeding of horses that were, of course rescued, and are now perfect for breeding, OH! and you have to show them so they have great records, becuase if they don't have records....
> 
> Did I miss anything? Was that a rant? that was rant...but it was kind of fun... deep breath... I feel better now!


I told another member I was going to try to maintain my cool on this thread and agreed not to post what I really REALLY wanted to...so since I gave my word I will just do this


++stands and applauds+++ Thank You Farm Pony!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

close2prfct said:


> I told another member I was going to try to maintain my cool on this thread and agreed not to post what I really REALLY wanted to...so since I gave my word I will just do this
> 
> ++stands and applauds+++ Thank You Farm Pony!


I'm cool  , but I still vote for breeding as close to the best as possible (even though I own 2 far-from-perfect rescued fillies).


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I'm cool  , but I still vote for breeding as close to the best as possible (even though I own 2 far-from-perfect rescued fillies).


Oh I agree with breeding sound horses both with conformation and attitude and as importantly as either of those being able to do the job it is intended for. But I don't agree with beating people up for thinking about breeding.


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I have to disagree with you on that. Most people I know own rescues. It all depends on what you are getting. Some rescues have some great horses nothing at all wrong with (just ended up in bad situation or at the auction). But some rescued horses are true rescues with lots of issues. One of our local rescues in fact put horse in sleep if there is nothing can be done about training/changing horse's mind (they try first, of course).


I know plenty of horses that have been rescued, whether directly from a rescue or were simply taken out of a very bad situation, and it's not often they have serious problems. It's either that they ended up in bad situations or, for those that actually do have issues, nobody wants to take the time to actually work with them. 

One of my favourite horses I've ever known was so scared from being beaten and twitched that he'd cower in the corner of his stall as soon as anyone walked in, and when riding him, I couldn't take my coat off without dismounting because he was so skittish. But after only a few months, he became a wonderful horse that I could do anything on. Now he's just a big puppy. He follows me around in the pasture, he nuzzles, he responds to his name, etc. But no one wanted to actually put any effort into him, so they just passed him onto someone else. And he's _the_ cutest and most agile jumper.

So yes, I'd rather someone take a horse like him and give it a good life instead of creating their own. There's no need to breed just decent horses, but horses like him _do_ need a chance. And I don't see what's so wrong with discouraging breeding and encouraging people do SOME BLOODY GOOD IN THE WORLD. 

/rant of my own 

EDIT:


close2prfct said:


> Oh I agree with breeding sound horses both with conformation and attitude and as importantly as either of those being able to do the job it is intended for. But I don't agree with beating people up for thinking about breeding.


I don't think anyone here wants to burn someone at the stake for just thinking about breeding. I, as well as many others, I would imagine, are simply saying that there are better uses for horses and better alternatives to breeding something that you could find in any backyard.


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

Lily of the Valley said:


> EDIT:I don't think anyone here wants to burn someone at the stake for just thinking about breeding. I, as well as many others, I would imagine, are simply saying that there are better uses for horses and better alternatives to breeding something that you could find in any backyard.


i think that is what is key. breeding should be done when you are breeding to improve breeds and horses - passing on superior qualities from an excellent mare and an excellent stallion with limited faults (as of course no horse is perfect). but that's just my opinion.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

close2prfct said:


> But I don't agree with beating people up for thinking about breeding.


I certainly don't argue with that.  I have nothing against "home breeding" either. 

I think one has to do lots of research and educate him/herself before the breeding (including proper care for the preggy mare and foal and such). Asking questions on forums may be helpful, but the start should be still good books and recommendations from the vet(s). But it's just IMO.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Just tryin' to give a different perspective.


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

Thank you farm pony!!! If she wants to bred her mare then go for it. Sounds to me like she plans on keeping the baby. That is a nice looking mare and just because she is down hill, is not a bad thing, there are alot of downhill built horses just look at the reining world, and they do just fine! The short legs, like eastowest said, its foundation! Yes there are alot of unwanted horses, but having one out of your own horse is special. OP i think maybe a thoroughbred or a race bred QH, that would give you some spunk. And like close2prfct said, yes it would be best for people to bred almost perfect conformation horses but its not going to happen, so why must people bash someone for wanting to bred there horse?


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

reining girl said:


> And like close2prfct said, yes it would be best for people to bred almost perfect conformation horses but its not going to happen, so why must people bash someone for wanting to bred there horse?


...

Yes, it would be best for people to not kill other people, but it's not going to happen, so why must people bash someone for wanting to kill a person?


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I certainly don't argue with that.  I have nothing against "home breeding" either.
> 
> I think one has to do lots of research and educate him/herself before the breeding (including proper care for the preggy mare and foal and such). Asking questions on forums may be helpful, but the start should be still good books and recommendations from the vet(s). But it's just IMO.



You are right research and educating yourself is paramount when it comes to breeding anything. Learn everything you possibly can beforehand so you are better prepared for the "what ifs" and get that knowledge from real professionals in the horse industry. 


RJ---You are right as well many champion reining horses are built downhill it does not prohibit them whatsoever from doing what they were bred to do in fact it is a benefit to them to be downhill. World Champion Reiners aren't going to stop reining just because others out there don't like their downhill horses..nor should they.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Lily of the Valley said:


> ...
> 
> Yes, it would be best for people to not kill other people, but it's not going to happen, so why must people bash someone for wanting to kill a person?


What in the world does that have to do with breeding a horse?


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> What in the world does that have to do with breeding a horse?


Nothing whatsoever. I was pointing out the severe logical flaws in the person's argument, which would be present no matter what the topic, as demonstrated by my analogy.


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

exactly what farmpony said you make no sense, were talking about breeding horses, so you bring up killing people????? whatever floats your boat.


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## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

i think she was talking about all of the negitave flow in this topic... Well if some of you would like to help, I live in Canada and would like to see if I could find a stud close to saskatchewan first (if I can't I'll have to go further). I think a race qh type would suite me best. 
Ur right about the downhill in reining horses, my horse was bred to be a cowhorse/reining horse. She is pretty much ready for reining but i need to get the sliding stop while riding (she does it really well on the ground). 
I'm also helping a girl with her new foal. She bought the horse, when i saw it i asked her if it was in foal and she said i don't know. She brought it to the vet and sure enough she was! She had the foal like a week ago, which is really late in this time of year but everything is going just fine. But anyway this is way off topic...
So do you know any racing QH's out there? I think I know a guy that bred a couple but thankfully he cut them all. I've even dealt with someone imbreeding horses by accident.... but since he was breeding to a racy QH and said his horses have good bloodlines but he hasn't papered them..... maybe i'll check it out and see where he went and check the bloodlines myself.


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

there is always shipped semen??? it might be a little spendier, but if you cant findin what you want that is close to you, there is always that.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I have to agree with everyone who is against your mare being bred. She's cute, but there is nothing about her that is amazing or worth replicating. Gazillions of people have already told you, but she is not breeding quality. Breeding should be left to the professionals who have top quality horses. The only horses that should reproduce are ones that are superior in every way (conformation, temperament, longevity, general health and soundness, etc.). No horse on earth has absolutely flawless conformation, but breeding quality ones come **** close. You're getting some really reasonable advice from the people who are advising you against it. I would listen to them.


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## tmyfrnk (Aug 11, 2009)

I say go for it. Your horse is absolutly beautiful and you should be proud of her. And about raising foals, I have raised 4 now (at the same time) with absolutly no horse experience and they are awsome horses!!


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

reining girl said:


> exactly what farmpony said you make no sense, were talking about breeding horses, so you bring up killing people????? whatever floats your boat.


Dude. AN-A-LO-GY. Whatsherface said that it would be great if breeding like this didn't happen, but it will, so there's no need to criticise someone for it. I was pointing out the fact that that's horrible logic by applying the same argument to something else - killing will still happen, no matter what, but we still feel the need to criticise people for it. And, by the same token, just because backyard breeding will happen, that doesn't mean we can't criticise people who do it.

IS THIS REALLY THAT DIFFICULT OF A CONCEPT? IS IT? 'CAUSE I'M PRETTY SURE IT ISN'T.


tmyfrnk said:


> I have raised 4 now (at the same time) with absolutly no horse experience and they are awsome horses!!


Do I have to bring out my Tommy Lee Jones picture again?

1) How would you know if they're awesome horses if you have no experience?
2) What on earth possessed you to think raising four foals with no experience would be a good idea?
3) What on earth possessed you to think raising four foals _at the same time_ would be a good idea?


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## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

Can u guys take those questions somewhere else? not to be rude or anything but this is a different topic. 

Shipping seimen and stuff can be really expensive, and u gotta have a mare with a chance of actually becoming infoal. My friend was gunna do it but there was a very low percentage that she would catch. I think either pasture breeding or hand breeding is the best and most natural way. It is an option though.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

_



I have raised 4 now (at the same time) with absolutly no horse experience and they are awsome horses!!:grin:

Click to expand...

_ 
_These statements scare me, because I just know someone else will go, "Oh! Great idea!" and toddle off and buy 3/4 unhandled foals and have no experience and either they or the horses will end up dead or crippled.
_


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## Barrelracer Up (May 22, 2009)

Flyinghigh12 said:


> Shipping seimen and stuff can be really expensive, and u gotta have a mare with a chance of actually becoming infoal. My friend was gunna do it but there was a very low percentage that she would catch. I think either pasture breeding or hand breeding is the best and most natural way. It is an option though.


Which is coming back around to breeding quality and soundness in the mare! We have an excellent success rate with A.I. when the mare is breeding sound and everyone involved _*knows what the heck they are doing*_. If the mare has been properly prepped and passed her exams and doesn't catch, it usually ends up being an issue with the semen extender or the follicle didn't release per norm. Not always, but most frequently.

If you want to blame it on semen, then you are getting semen from some backyard person that has no clue how to get the most out of it. Putting the stud under lights early, experimenting with extenders to see which is best for that stud, etc, etc..... will increase the viability of the cooled semen.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

this topic desperately needs some tact. she asked a specific question about a possible stallion and immediately gets "your mare is crap. you're an idiot for wanting to breed her. only special people with perfect horses should breed". it sounds to me like she actually does have a decent amount of experience and she's actually taking the time to research a stud that would compliment her mare instead of just picking the first pretty one next door she sees (which i applaud). i happen to like the foundation QH type, the stocky type. some confirmation flaws are there (although nothing that major that i can make out that should make her such an awful mother), i agree, but there's no reason she couldn't have a nice foal with a complimentary stud. i would urge the OP to really look carefully at each stud and make a careful decision for her mare. as for the overpopulation problem, yes it is an issue. however, she didnt say "my mare just had her 4th backyard foal and i want to put her in foal AGAIN. who should i pick?!??!" (believe it or not, i see that alot). if she really does plan on raising and training the foal herself to keep it as a riding horse, i see no reason why she shouldn' t breed. oo and i agree with barrelracer, shipped semen is expensive, but done the right way has a good success rate so dont rule it out completely if you find a stud that is right for your mare.


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

RiddlesDarkAngel5 said:


> this topic desperately needs some tact. she asked a specific question about a possible stallion and immediately gets "your mare is crap. you're an idiot for wanting to breed her. only special people with perfect horses should breed". it sounds to me like she actually does have a decent amount of experience and she's actually taking the time to research a stud that would compliment her mare instead of just picking the first pretty one next door she sees (which i applaud). i happen to like the foundation QH type, the stocky type. those confirmation flaws are there, i agree, but there's no reason she couldn't have a nice foal. i would urge the OP to really look carefully at each stud and make a careful decision for her mare. as for the overpopulation problem, yes it is an issue. however, she didnt say "my mare just had her 4th backyard foal and i want to put her in foal AGAIN. who should i pick?!??!" (believe it or not, i see that alot). if she really does plan on raising and training the foal herself to keep it as a riding horse, i see no reason why she shouldn' t breed. oo and i agree with barrelracer, shipped semen is expensive, but done the right way has a good success rate so dont rule it out completely if you find a stud that is right for your mare.


You're ignoring half of what has been said and twisting most of the other half. In fact, pretty much everyone who's complained about the responses the OP has gotten has completely ignored everything I've said. Do I smell or something? IS IT BECAUSE I'M BLACK? IS IT? IMMA SUE YOU! >=O


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

THANK YOU RIDDLESDARKANGEL5!!!!!!!!!! I completly agree. Just make sure you really take the time to find that "perfect" stud maybe find a stud that has performed and won some money.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

Lily of the Valley said:


> You're ignoring half of what has been said and twisting most of the other half. In fact, pretty much everyone who's complained about the responses the OP has gotten has completely ignored everything I've said. Do I smell or something? IS IT BECAUSE I'M BLACK? IS IT? IMMA SUE YOU! >=O


see, and that last part just made you look ridiculous....oo nevermind.

IMO, the criticism brought here has been said in an uneccessarily nasty tone towards the OP. if you're going to criticize, do it in a constructive manner.


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

RiddlesDarkAngel5 said:


> see, and that last part just made you look ridiculous....oo nevermind.
> 
> IMO, the criticism brought here has been said in an uneccessarily nasty tone towards the OP. if you're going to criticize, do it in a constructive manner.


Well said.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Wow, grow up.


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

RiddlesDarkAngel5 said:


> see, and that last part just made you look ridiculous....oo nevermind.
> 
> IMO, the criticism brought here has been said in an uneccessarily nasty tone towards the OP. if you're going to criticize, do it in a constructive manner.


Dude. You seriously take someone who says "Imma" and makes angryscreamingfaces seriously? I WAS JOKING. Bloody hell. =|

Excuse me, I was not rude to the OP. Hell, I didn't even _speak_ to the OP, at least not that I can see. I gave my opinion with a thorough, intelligent, well-backed explanation as to why I felt that way. That's far more than can be said for yourself.

EDIT: Wow, y'all are gullible.


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5 (Jun 2, 2009)

Lily of the Valley said:


> Dude. You seriously take someone who says "Imma" and makes angryscreamingfaces seriously? I WAS JOKING. Bloody hell. =|
> 
> Excuse me, I was not rude to the OP. Hell, I didn't even _speak_ to the OP, at least not that I can see. I gave my opinion with a thorough, intelligent, well-backed explanation as to why I felt that way. That's far more than can be said for yourself.
> 
> EDIT: Wow, y'all are gullible.


no you've just been rude to other people looking through your responses. i also gave my opinion and explained myself to the best of my ability. it just didn't fit in line with your opinion which why i assume you got so angry. and yes, i figured you weren't actually serious. that's just a rather odd place to interject a joke like that.


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## Lily of the Valley (Sep 27, 2009)

RiddlesDarkAngel5 said:


> no you've just been rude to other people looking through your responses. i also gave my opinion and explained myself to the best of my ability. it just didn't fit in line with your opinion which why i assume you got so angry. and yes, i figured you weren't actually serious. that's just a rather odd place to interject a joke like that.


Yes, I'm furious. That's why I made an angryface and yelled at you for racial discrimination...even though I'm pale as newborn pig. Next I'm gonna go cut myself, which is usually indicated by a craving for pork chops.

Point of that paragraph being? I'm very rarely serious, and even when I am, I'm only half-so. So I'm certainly not gonna get worked up about your opinion. I just pointed out that you didn't take into consideration any of my points - the fact that, even if she wants to keep the foal and have one with a certain personality, she'd have better luck just finding one for adoption or sale, and that would be doing good instead of robbing another horse of a home. Not only that, but it's not like she can even begin to be sure of the abilities or personality of a foal she'd produce. 

I don't have a problem with breeding at all. If there were no unwanted horses in the world, I'd say have at it. But there are, and until there aren't, I'd rather see people either adopt or buy _or_ only breed when it's to improve a specific breed (or maybe create a new one, but that's a rare exception). Otherwise, in my eyes, it's almost pointless and wasteful. I want every horse - every animal - in the world to have a happy life, and by breeding more, others are being deprived of that chance.


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## SallyRC123 (Aug 22, 2008)

To be honest, I posted a "I want to breed my mare!" topic similar a while back, and got similar responses. 

Back then I knew little about breeding and even less about foaling or the complications that could arise. After months of researching, reading and asking questions I now appreciate the sheer responsibility that is due to breeding horses and the thousands of things that could go wrong, not to mention the experience, knowledge and horsemanship required to breed, foal and train a horse.

I'm glad I got those responses because if I hadn't have been slapped in the face I might have gone and done something stupid - like breed my mare with little understanding of even the fundamentals.

I still plan on breeding her, one day, but I will not even consider it untill I have gained essential experience and knowledge required in the breeding industry.


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## Flyinghigh12 (Feb 17, 2009)

So guys in the last page in a half I'v had no help finding a stud. Take ur arguments elsewhere already!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am just going to chime in and suggest that if you are wanting a horse that is tall, slimmer, and built uphill, that mare may not be the best breeding choice. I have to say that she is a decent example of a nice foundation QH and IMHO, she would make some nice babies if she were bred to another solid QH. It is _possible_ that you could get a horse like what you are looking for out of her but I think it is unlikely.

I can't really help you find a stud as I am not really into the whole "search for a stud" thing but maybe a well built TB or WB could possibly give you a chance for a foal like what you are wanting. (no guarantee though).


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## Deej (May 5, 2009)

The photos are great! With all of the homeless horses in the US., I vote NO on breeding your mare. You can buy any age horse these days and bring them up just the same as if your mare foaled it herself. Pleease think very hard before bringing another equine into this world. Look up horse adoption and you will find many wonderful horses that are in dire need of good homes. Again, please adopt!!!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

It is time to post the below reminder: 

_Conscientious Etiquette Policy

The Horse Forum was created so that people can discuss horses in a friendly, fun, helpful environment. While the Horse Forum is open to the public, we reserve the right to restrict access to those who undermine our efforts to preserve the character of the community.

Please exercise what we call conscientious etiquette when you post. This means that you keep the objective of preserving the forum's friendly, fun, helpful environment in the forefront of your mind as you write your message.

If your post is nasty, condescending, rude, etc., regardless of how subtle, and whether shrouded in the form of opinion or otherwise, it is subject to be removed and your access to the Horse Forum may be restricted.

This applies to the Critique forum as well. People come here because they are passionate about their horses. Naturally, a biting critique about an animal a person is passionate about can be very hurtful. While a request for critique implicitly invites criticism, the sensitive nature of such topics is all the more reason to post conscientiously, keeping the other person's feelings in mind.

Our interest in preserving the nature of the community trumps our interest in allowing everyone to share their opinion here. If you can't share your opinion in such a way so as to preserve the friendly, fun, helpful nature of the community, don't.

Please exercise conscientious etiquette when you post. Please use the alert button to notify the Horse Forum Staff when you read something by somebody who clearly hasn't.

If you have any questions, please contact a moderator or Administrator.
_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, I think everyone should calm down and take a deep breath. The discussion is coming too far off. And there is no reason to drive at each other or attack the OP. Everyone expressed the opinion, fine, lets MOVE ON!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

This discussion is so far off topic at this point it will be easier to lock it, allow the OP to start a fresh thread and the off-topics can also start fresh threads.


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