# Interesting BLM mustang color - somatic mutation?



## Sailor (Sep 28, 2013)

Hi all, I am a longtime lurker who finally got brave enough to post. I don't own a horse or have the opportunity to be around horses at the moment, but I really love them. I enjoy and appreciate all the knowledge here, and I have learned a lot just reading.

I also like to look at the BLM online auction site for fun, and saw this little guy:

https://www.blm.gov/adoptahorse/horse.php?horse_id=7232&mygalleryview=

He has one spot on his neck where it looks like the cream gene was affected, and it showed up chestnut rather than palomino. This is a somatic mutation, not chimera, correct? Also, would paint markings typically affect such a mutation? 

Thanks very much everyone!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Howdy and welcome to the forum Sailor .

I'm not quite as knowledgeable about that type of stuff as some other members here, but I am inclined to agree that it's likely a somatic mutation.

I have no idea if paint markings would affect that. My gut feeling says probably not unless the mutation was on one of the genes that effected the white pattern.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I agree that it looks like a mutation that caused those particular pigment cells to be unaffected by cream. Very neat seeing these things! I've only seen it in greys so far myself


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## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

It's called calico. Exactly what others said. A somatic mutation where the cream gene is turned off in the one area.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

I could be wrong, but I feel like I recall seeing someone who seemed to be successfully reproducing "calico". It only seems to occur with tobiano+cream. Wish I could find it again but it was on a color genetics facebook page and so it would be beyond buried.

Another example:


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## Sailor (Sep 28, 2013)

Cool, thanks guys! I hadn't heard about "calico" before. 

@Bridgertrot, if the horse in the picture you posted is red based and has a partially black tail, is that another mutation or is something else happening? Also, if a breeder is successfully producing calico, would the mares need to be kept in a certain condition during gestation? For example, would they need a specific temperature, exercise schedule or diet?

After a second look at the mustang, it also seems there are a few reddish spots on his belly area. He is also a bit dirty so I could be wrong 

I also found another similar foal with a google search for calico. This horse has a few of the red belly spots.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The one Bridgertrot posted is a buckskin. Same thing happened - something turned off the cream in that area. Some people theorise that it is also related to tobiano, as the majority of calicos seem to be tobiano, although I have seen it in one that is NOT tobiano as far as the eye can see. However, it did still have substantial white patterning, so there is definitely a link there to white.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Actually I believe this was the one I was thinking about before. Cream + Champagne tobiano half Arabian.










Though I can't find anymore info on them beyond the pinterest posting.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

on the blm site, there is also a roan colt with a darker spot on its neck. 
those are some cute babies.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Awesome pictures. Subbing...


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## Sailor (Sep 28, 2013)

@Chiilaa, thanks for the explanation about the buckskin. The horse's mane really threw me off because it is light colored, but now I see the dark ear tips! I assume the mane is an effect of the tobiano. 

@Bridgertrot - super cute foal! 

I also found a short description of calico in horses at this link:

Calico Tobiano | Tawny Horse

It says "Calico Tobiano is a very rare coat that is only seen when the Cream and Tobiano genes are present. The Cream gene appears to only dilute sections on the horse’s body when leaving the other areas more of the base colour. This leads to a patchy, tri coloured, look that can be compared to that of a Calico Cat.

There is little known about Calico Tobiano. Some people wonder if it is just the cream gene failing to dilute the entire pigmented coat on the horse. However stallions have produced Calico foals which shows that there is a form of inheritance."

So there is an association with calico and tobiano, how cool! So do you guys think calico is therefore different from a normal somatic mutation, and also linked to a red base?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

That foal is really cute!
Random question but... What are they doing to their tails??
And not too impressed with the dogs being allowed in there to chase..(9526)

But horse 3462... Holy cutter! She could get down and dirty with a cow,that's for sure!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

What do you mean about their tails? I see a few that have either been chewed off or, perhaps, had the mats cut out of them, but that's it.


On a side note, this guy would make quite a pair with Talyn
https://www.blm.gov/adoptahorse/horse.php?horse_id=7193&mygalleryview=


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Sailor said:


> @Chiilaa, thanks for the explanation about the buckskin. The horse's mane really threw me off because it is light colored, but now I see the dark ear tips! I assume the mane is an effect of the tobiano.
> 
> @Bridgertrot - super cute foal!
> 
> ...


I am someone who is not ever going to call them "calico tobiano" ever. I think the link is to white, not to tobiano. This guy is not at all tobiano (granted, not tested to my knowledge, but no visual clue to indicate tobiano), and yet he has the same thing going on:


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

0843 and 0987 have some dark spotting on them. I dont think anyone has cut any mats out of tails on these mustangs . well, maybe they put them in a chute and cut off some tails, but still that would be pretty risky .


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## Sailor (Sep 28, 2013)

Thanks Chiilaa for explaining that. So it isn't linked to tobiano specifically, but you think it is connected with any kind of white marking? Also, I couldn't see the picture you posted - I'm not sure why. Do you think it is a combination of white and environmental factors producing the calico color, or just the white markings?

While we are on the subject of red based mustangs, there are two lovely chestnut mares that look like they also might have silver showing in the mane and tail, or am I wrong?

#9559
https://www.blm.gov/adoptahorse/horse.php?horse_id=7035&mygalleryview=


#0721
https://www.blm.gov/adoptahorse/horse.php?horse_id=7206&mygalleryview=

I've seen pics of that dog chasing horses in some previous auctions! :-x


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## Sailor (Sep 28, 2013)

@stevenson; here are 0987 and 0843. Is that also a somatic mutation? Both are roans so I don't know if it is just a "roan thing" or something different. Both roans were born at the same holding facility as the first "calico" marked horse.


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## Sailor (Sep 28, 2013)

Oops, here they are.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Silver doesn't show on red based horses. It only effects black bases. Both the red's are sooty. 

Roans typically have what are called "corn marks" which are where there was any damage to the hair it grows back without the white, so is a dark spot within the roan coloration.


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## Sailor (Sep 28, 2013)

Thanks everyone for answering my questions!


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