# Horse kicks when being mounted?



## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Hey riders, so I have a problem with my horse that is starting to become bad, and could potentially be very dangerous to both me and other riders.

So my horse has a lot of flaws that have to do with tacking up. These are things I can deal with because for the most part, they are not too bad and he is getting better with them. One of his biggest (and most annoying) problems is anything associated with mounting: The biggest thing is that he won't stand still - he will try to do anything he can to NOT be mounted. Since a mounting block is necessary for me, he doesn't want to stand for it. I have resorted to having him against a wall and another person holding him while I try to hop up. 

But lately, he has resorted to kicking!!! Yes, this little s*** will kick out with his left hind foot while I'm trying to get on his back. Not only does this make me nervous, but it makes me angry!! The fact that he doesn't want me on his back so much that he will resort to kicking me makes me very upset. It doesn't happen every time but has happened more than four times. And don't get me wrong, I don't just stand there and say "please don't do that.." he gets a super loud "no ransom!!!!!!!!" and a few smacks. This only seems to happen when we are not having lessons *surprising* so my coach has never been around to see it. And I feel like when I tell her, she thinks I am over exaggerating. Next time I see her, I will talk to her again and ask her what I should do?? But for now, I would like to know your opinions..

*PLEASE READ*
I would really prefer if you didn't say anything about how I should take lessons, get somebody more experienced to ride him, etc because that is really not helpful..I have common sense. 

Anyways, I'm not going to take care of this on my own and do what somebody online tells me to do, I just want your opinion. I will be talking to my coach soon to get some help with this as it worries me I could get injured or he could take it farther.

Also, he really is a good horse besides these flaws, I'm pretty angry at him right now so I'm not gonna talk about the reasons I love him but at this moment, once you get on his back..he really is a good boy and does what you ask him to.

Thanks so much! If you read it all, you are awesome!
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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

I do believe that your horse is in pain. You could have an ill-fitting saddle, or he could have chronic back pain. Don't be angry at him, because this is most likely triggered from pain/discomfort. I'd recommend getting a horse chiropractor to look at him, as well as perhaps a vet. A professional saddle-fitter may also be in order, though my best guess is that he just has chronic back pain.

Good luck, and tell us how it goes!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Kicking is kicking is kicking is kicking. Cure a kicker or can him, hold a whip and let him know what happens to horses that kick. Great you have a helper. After the correction for the kicking. Make him stand at the block, the nano second he moves, stop mounting, get down & move him back to where you had him, repeat until he stands, even if it takes all day.


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## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

I would vote serious saddle issues. Not to be rude but you don't have many responses here because you want someone to spend their time giving you an opinion and then say openly that you aren't going to take it. Thats not fair.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Have you checked for any kind of pain? That could be a huge sign that something isn't right and he's trying to tell you that something hurts. 

I wouldn't consider giving you behavioral advice before you've checked everything.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

WesternBella said:


> Anyways, I'm not going to take care of this on my own and do what somebody online tells me to do, I just want your opinion.


Ok, since you just flat-out stated you won't be using any advice given, there's absolutely no point in telling you anything.

Perhaps mental telepathy? Bet you haven't tried that yet. :?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes, the thought popped into mind that pain may be involved with the situation, I made sure that there was nothing on the saddle pad that was poking him or he didn't have any kinds of sores. Of course I can't check for anything you have mentioned since I'm not a vet or pro saddle-fitter but I will ask about my saddle not fitting correcting and see what she says?

Although she has put a few rides on him in the past (when I wasn't able to control him) and she said that he stands fine for her. That she thinks he just isn't a fan of standing for the mounting block. Even so, I have tried mounting from the ground and he still won't stand still.

I really hope that it's just something simple associated with tackl and not any type of injury. I really will feel so bad if he has been in pain and I have been punishing him for it..as sad as it sounds, I hope it's a "I'm the boss" issue so atleast I don't have to feel bad for hitting him. 

Thanks for your input, I'll let you know what happens!
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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

I'm really sorry if I offended anyone! I guess I could have worded that a bit better..of course I posted this thread for your opinions but what I meant was I was not going to do some irresponsible thing that 'someone on the Internet' told me to do. Hope you understand now..I really do appreciate anything anyone has to say..as long as its funny or helpful! 
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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

An ill-fitting saddle does not always leave sores/pressure point marks. Also, back pain does not always come from poorly suited tack. I strongly encourage you to get a chiropractor out to work on him.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Kick him back.....
I can say that because the advice is not going to be used..tee he..





pain first..then training...


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

mudpie said:


> An ill-fitting saddle does not always leave sores/pressure point marks. Also, back pain does not always come from poorly suited tack. I strongly encourage you to get a chiropractor out to work on him.


Thanks, I guess if his mommy has a chiropractor..ransom can have one too. LOL I'm sure ransoms chiropractor will be far more expensive though.. I'll see what I can do! Thanks 
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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Kimmylikestojump said:


> I would vote serious saddle issues. Not to be rude but you don't have many responses here because you want someone to spend their time giving you an opinion and then say openly that you aren't going to take it. Thats not fair.


I do want your opinion! I do! I do! Please read again, I said I want your opinions  Thanks for your input though 
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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

waresbear said:


> Kicking is kicking is kicking is kicking. Cure a kicker or can him, hold a whip and let him know what happens to horses that kick. Great you have a helper. After the correction for the kicking. Make him stand at the block, the nano second he moves, stop mounting, get down & move him back to where you had him, repeat until he stands, even if it takes all day.


As long as the pain issue is resolved and made sure it's either not there or taken care of, this will be the next step!! Thank you!
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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Have you checked for any kind of pain? That could be a huge sign that something isn't right and he's trying to tell you that something hurts.
> 
> I wouldn't consider giving you behavioral advice before you've checked everything.


Thanks. Will do 
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Well if he just won't stand still period, that's a groundwork issue that should be your top priority to solve.

Ask your trainer to help you teach him to stand still. 

Something that helps is when you groom him and he tries to move around, undo what he did and put him back where he started. So if he backed up twice and stepped over 3 steps, make him step 3 steps the other direction and 2 steps forward.


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Delfina said:


> Ok, since you just flat-out stated you won't be using any advice given, there's absolutely no point in telling you anything.
> 
> Perhaps mental telepathy? Bet you haven't tried that yet. :?


Wish it existed..it would make things FAR more easier when it comes to this kind of stuff. And I love advice, I'm just too stupid to correctly state what I meant..whoops, sorry.
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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

I've actually had a gelding who was an ill-tempered beast and would bite, kick, pin his ears, etc. when you tacked him up and especially when you were getting on him. He had serious back pain, and after several visits from the chiropractor, he improved dramatically and became the happiest old man around! Once again, call a chiropractor!


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

COWCHICK77 said:


> Kick him back.....
> I can say that because the advice is not going to be used..tee he..
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting LOL once I'm sure he's not in pain & is just trying to be a jerk..he's in for it! just kidding... I'm not one that likes to hit a horse..but kicking is a lot more serious than if her were to not pick up his foot for me..I think it would be acceptable for a good old smack.
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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

WesternBella said:


> Interesting LOL once I'm sure he's not in pain & is just trying to be a jerk..he's in for it! just kidding... I'm not one that likes to hit a horse..but kicking is a lot more serious than if her were to not pick up his foot for me..I think it would be acceptable for a good old smack.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Please don't beat your pony! xD


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

how old is this horse?and when you mount,make sure your left toe is facing foward and not in his ribcage,because if so,he's just getting off of the pressure.and when you try to mount,are you pulling alot on the saddle?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

mudpie said:


> I've actually had a gelding who was an ill-tempered beast and would bite, kick, pin his ears, etc. when you tacked him up and especially when you were getting on him. He had serious back pain, and after several visits from the chiropractor, he improved dramatically and became the happiest old man around! Once again, call a chiropractor!


See this is where the mind-telepathy thing would have been very beneficial  Although it's sad that he had to suffer for awhile..it's even more sad that it's this hard to find out what is wrong with our horse's! I hope this isn't the case with Ransom, thanks for sharing! 
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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

rob said:


> how old is this horse?and when you mount,make sure your left toe is facing foward and not in his ribcage,because if so,he's just getting off of the pressure.and when you try to mount,are you pulling alot on the saddle?


He is 10, and that is interesting..I will check to make sure my toe isn't in his ribcage next time (although I've never thought of it, he tries to move before I go to mount so I don't think it's the problem..wish it was that easy though) And my coach reccomended that I try to get on as quickly and gently as possible, being careful not to pull too much on the saddle. So I'm very sure this isn't the case. We have tried switching cinches, saddle pads just incase he didn't like the saddle moving too much..but unfortunately, still haven't figured it out yet 
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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

does this horse move away when you get up above his head?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

rob said:


> does this horse move away when you get up above his head?


What exactly do you mean by that? Sorry..I don't follow, do you mean when mounting or in general (like on the ground)
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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

i'm sorry,from the ground and up over your saddle?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

rob said:


> i'm sorry,from the ground and up over your saddle?


Sorry *facepalm* once I have my foot in and I swing up, he stops moving but before that it is a nightmare. ..if that answers the question?
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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

to make sure i understand,he's moving around before you get up in your saddle?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Yes..sorry for the confusion LOL
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

How does he react when you stand up higher than he is (like on a stool, fence, rock, etc.) ?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

That's when he kicks, when I stand on a mounting block.

But I actually have never tried standing on something higher than him other than the mounting block..why do you ask?
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Because from experience, if they are nervous about you being higher (think mountain lion attacking from a tree, it's going to make them nervous) then they won't stand still to save their life. And they'll get very squirrely.

Does he know he needs to stand still? How did you get on before?


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

what hand do you hold your reins in to get on?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Before, I got on him the same way..he just stood before, sometimes he would move a bit but now he moves a lot.

And I don't hold the reins when I mount, I just let them sit on his neck while I grab onto the horn
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

When you mounted up, did he stand still or did he just walk on and you let him?

Sometimes they can get away with little things like that and then it becomes a bigger problem. First moving off before being told. Then walking off when being mounted, then walking off when asked to stand still.

Are you following?

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's a very likely situation. Personally if my horse was wiggling when I tried to mount up, I would make it a very poor decision, and once I did get on, hop right off and mount up again until he stood still through the entire thing.


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> When you mounted up, did he stand still or did he just walk on and you let him?
> 
> Sometimes they can get away with little things like that and then it becomes a bigger problem. First moving off before being told. Then walking off when being mounted, then walking off when asked to stand still.
> 
> ...


Yes. I follow now LOL

He seems to stand there pretty well while I get my other foot in the stirrup, I don't really notice him ever trying to start walking immediately, maybe a couple steps add then stopped again but for the most part, he knows he's supposed to stand like a good boy. I think he either is in pain or doesn't want to.
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah once you rule out pain, then the only thing left is behavioral. Whether he thinks that's the right answer or it's okay to do that VS. something he's doing to avoid work.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

why don't you hold the reins when you mount?that is your brake system,and i could explain how to hold them to where his left ribcage is more towards you and he isn't moving around.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, if any of mine did that, I'd unleash holy hell on them. The toe of my cowboy boot would probably need to be surgically removed from the horse's belly afterward. But that is just a grouchy old man writing...


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I have had so many horses where owners throw the 
'Oh he won't stand after you've mounted/he tries to boot you when you mount.'

Providing pain and saddle fit have been eliminated (Which in all honesty I would sort out first as has been mentioned) then it is purely misbehaviour.

Its dangerous, and can kill you if its placed right. I'm assuming (and I don't wish to offend) that you have some mobility issues from using a mounting block and chiro? Have you asked someone with no problems and fearless to get on and see if they get the same reaction?

If not, I would suggest you get someone to hold him so he doesn't run, get a long dressage whip, and when he kicks out you take the skin off his hide. You, being the alpha mare, kick him back, but with a whip. If you do it right, you'll only have to do it once, and then back him up so fast he looks like he's going to sit down. Spend as long as you have to, and as long as you can manage mounting and dismounting.

But please please get his back and saddle checked first. Whats he like after for riding? If he was a bit iffy riding too it would scream out pain to me, if not, possible pain more likely bad behaviour!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

WesternBella said:


> This only seems to happen when we are not having lessons *surprising* so my coach has never been around to see it.


So what is different when you mount prior to a lesson? Location? People around the area? Other horses?

There must be a trigger. Pick the situation apart piece by piece.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Always hold the reins when you mount, that way if he does move, you can tell him not to. Not so short that you will pull on his mouth when you mount, but long enough to give him some slack but short enough that you can prompt him right away.


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

If it seems like I'm scolding you or being bossy.. I am not. Sorry!


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

DuffyDuck said:


> I have had so many horses where owners throw the
> 'Oh he won't stand after you've mounted/he tries to boot you when you mount.'
> 
> Providing pain and saddle fit have been eliminated (Which in all honesty I would sort out first as has been mentioned) then it is purely misbehaviour.
> ...


Oh nononono! I don't have mobility issues, Ransom is very tall! Sorry if it sounded like it...I can get up on other horse's from the ground, just turns out mine is a giant  And he's totally fine after riding, as soon as I put him back: he rips around the pen and chases the other horses. And for the chiro, I am young but I had a trampoline accident several years ago & my back has never been the same since, I also go to the chiro simply because it makes me feel refreshed LOL not that it matters..
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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

mls said:


> So what is different when you mount prior to a lesson? Location? People around the area? Other horses?
> 
> There must be a trigger. Pick the situation apart piece by piece.


The only thing that is different is one rider & my coach, we ride in the same exact space every time.
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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> If it seems like I'm scolding you or being bossy.. I am not. Sorry!


Didn't seem like that to me, you were really helpful!
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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Alright just making sure! Keep us all updated


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Are you toeing him when you mount? By that I mean as you put your foot in stirrup you are digging point of boot into horse? Are you clearing his rump nicely with right leg, and settling down quietly in saddle?

And is the skin under cinch/girth smoothed down before girth is tightened, and are you pulling both forelegs out in front of him, so skin is laying nice and smooth.

Also, are you tenting your pad or blanket, so that when you tighten saddle, you aren't pulling mane/flesh on withers down, (think how it would feel if I pulled hat down tight on your head, and had your hair pulling) which will make horse aggravated.

What about ulcers? Has he been checked for that? Sometimes that will cause some of this too, and also could be girth is too high up on sides, not sure if you are western rider or not, but for those girths, the ring can be very annoying when it is too high, or digging into sides.

Horse could also have broken withers process, cracked rib, or even an abscess deep inside the muscles, that is not showing up, but does cause pain.

Has sheath been cleaned lately, the tightening of girth/cinch can stretch the skin on belly, and made sheath area painful.

You could also be mounting before horse is squared up well, and causing him to shift. Saddle could also not fit well, when you are mounted too, as rider's weight will change saddle fit greatly.

Saddle could have broken tree, or even have screws or nails inside it, that are poking through when your weight is added to it. Turn your saddle upside down, and press with all your weight on hands as you move them all over underside of saddle, feeling for sharp points.

Have teeth been done lately? Could be a tooth is broken, abscessed, or might have piece of hay/grain/twig stuck between gum and tooth, (think popcorn hulls) and be bothering horse. And might even have something stuck up into soft palate of mouth.

One thing that might help is if you have access to someone that can video you and horse. Do it before you go up, and have them get good shots of you preparing to mount, mounting, and settling into the saddle.

Watch it carefully, over and over, and try to pinpoint when horse is getting agitated, is at height of agitation, and when (if) he settles down any.


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Palomine - Wow, that was SO helpful. I will make a list & go over everything you mentioned THANK YOU
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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

You're welcome. Lots of things to think about.

Problem with horses is, there are so many things that can be wrong, and they really can't sit down at the kitchen table and say "oh, by the way..."

Another thing I forgot to mention, check very carefully where girth goes, and I mean take your hand and smooth it over area very slowly, feeling for any rough spots, as I was grooming TB one time, and reached under belly smoothing over hair with fingers, centered in girth area I felt a tiny speck. Size of pencil lead, bent under to look at it better, as it just didn't feel right, when I went to scrape it off, had a different movement, if that makes sense.

Grasped the "scab" and felt it wiggle more, and deeper, pulled it straight down, and it was a 4 inch thorn that horse had gotten embedded straight up into belly. I would imagine from maybe straddling trees like they do to scratch? But there it was, all the same. TB mare was a broodie, so no riding, but if had been going to? I imagine would have been interesting. And as afterthought, also have seen thorns embedded in same way in poll too, so that is worth checking. And it had no pus, no blood, no nothing to indicate it was even there. And things can migrate too inside body, like when soldier's get shrapnel and it takes years to work out through skin, or people in car wrecks can have glass go deep into their bodies and come out years later.

You may have to invest some time and detective work to get to the bottom of this, but don't give up.


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Do you think you guys could critique my saddle fit? I know these are horrible pics but they are the best I have right now.

Tell me what I need to take a pic of & I will take and post them tomorrow.

THANKS!!


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## Josh (Jan 19, 2012)

Not a pro but tree looks narrow...


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I must be in the minority here. I wouldn't give a rat's rear WHY the horse was kicking - not until he first STOPPED. There isn't a saddle in the world that fits so badly as to justify a horse trying to kick me - IMHO. And there is this:



WesternBella said:


> ...I made sure that there was nothing on the saddle pad that was poking him or he didn't have any kinds of sores...
> 
> ...Although she has put a few rides on him in the past (when I wasn't able to control him) and she said that he stands fine for her...


A horse can and should express discomfort - but not by kicking a human. I understand ears, or a hollow back, or tail swishing. But kicking at me? Not unless he wants to meet my evil twin...:twisted:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Bsms, I would make that kick the worst decision in the world to the horse. Especially if that were my horse.

You aren't in a minority. I'm sure more do and would.


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## rob (Aug 8, 2011)

does your saddle roll some to the left when you get on,cause like josh,it looks too narrow?


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

bsms said:


> I must be in the minority here. I wouldn't give a rat's rear WHY the horse was kicking - not until he first STOPPED. There isn't a saddle in the world that fits so badly as to justify a horse trying to kick me - IMHO. And there is this:
> 
> 
> 
> A horse can and should express discomfort - but not by kicking a human. I understand ears, or a hollow back, or tail swishing. But kicking at me? Not unless he wants to meet my evil twin...:twisted:


That was my opinion starting this thread...even if he is in pain, I don't tolerate kicking because it can be very serious. You're the only one that said anything like that. Don't feel alone now.
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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

This is a long thread. I like to take a 4-5" long stick like a dressage whip or thin willow branch and rub it up and down the horse's leg, the one that likes to kick at you and try to intimidate you. By doing this you are letting him know you have the stick and he likely knows what can happen. As you saddle him, periodically rub that leg or just touch it then continue saddle. Just before you mount, do it again. Perhaps he'd prefer that you mount from a block if you've been mounting from the ground.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I hope this is not offensive, I don't mean it that way at all (and I haven't read every single post in this thread so forgive me if someone has said this already), forgive me if it comes across that way!

Anyway, this is just me thinking. I may be completely off base here, but didn't you just recently post something else about how angry you got around/at this horse?
If being angry at him is a regular thing, he may be getting more and more nervous about being around you due to the unpredictability that he sees in your nature.
For instance, if I were to get hired at your job as your boss: if every time you see me, I'm in a different mood - sometimes enraged, sometimes totally laid back, sometimes just normal - you would start thinking I had a screw loose and you wouldn't trust my leadership. If you are the sort to not put up with behavior like that, you might start doing little things to give yourself more control in a situation where you felt otherwise powerless. You might start engaging in defensive behaviors to hopefully avoid triggering my anger. It makes you feel better to have some power because you find me really scary when I'm mad. Eventually, you still don't want me to be mad but it seems like my anger is such a regular occurrence that you just don't really care about pleasing me anymore. You feel like you can't do anything right so you start lashing out at me, hoping that I'll change my ways, leave you alone, or fire you. You still like me as a person when we're not at work but you hate working for me becuase you know the anger that might come out.


I know my mare is very sensitive to my moods. If I'm at all "short" with her or if I'm really nervous, she'll be similar. She'll be very quick to react (aggressively) with me when I'm too quickly aggressive towards her. If I'm nervous, she'll be mini-spooking at every little thing. If I'm having a bad week, she'll be having a bad week and it will take at least a week for us to recover from. Some days I want to beat the ever living stuffing out of her but I know that with her: the calmer I am, the better she'll be. I've taught myself to "fake" moods (poker face time!). 
If I'm nervous, I know exactly what things to do to loosen my body up and seem not nervous. If I'm crazy mad at her, I've figured out how to have a facade of perfect calm. 
Sometimes, she gets me mad enough that I just have to leave. I leave her where she is (or get her tied up/safely contained) and just walk it off. I'll go stand 30ft away and analyze what happened and what I can do to "make the best of it". 



Forgive me if this doesn't relate at all, but hopefully there's a little truth in there for you. I know you want the best for your boy (you wouldn't be posting if you didn't!) so I hope you two can figure it out.


Also, I can tell you why he started kicking: he's a prey animal, being gotten on by a "predator", he's confined and nervous about this predator getting on his back - can't run over the helper, can't move away because of the wall, scenario=kicking! 
I would start getting him comfortable with the mounting block, get him standing still, lose the wall or the helper (keeping one is ok for now, I think), and then start thinking about riding him. I would scratch riding for now and just work on getting him trust and respect from the ground. 

Work lots with the mounting block, putting him between it and the wall, having him stand next to it, having you stand on the block next to him, etc and only once he's comfortable with all that, then start getting on him. Just get on, get off, get on, get off, etc until he's fine with it. It may take some time but I bet if you take your time and go slow with him, the kicking will completely disappear.



Just as an aside, I would never let a horse routinely kick me. However, I'm really of the opinion that most horses don't just randomly start kicking just because. I think that first kick is a "wake up and smell the roses" type deal. You (the proverbial "you" not you personally) need to immediately take a "time out", figure out what went wrong, and fix it before another kick is even considered. 
I figure that horses only have so many ways of telling humans things and that kicking is a sign that a great many "messages" were missed so the horse felt it had to "up signal strength" to get noticed. 
I have never met a horse with a kicking problem that, once someone took the time to analyze the horse's situation and figure out the bother to fix it, didn't stop kicking immediately. Of course, I've only met a few kickers but they all shared similar "needing leadership/strike first before getting hurt" sort of mentalities.


Anyway, hopefully some of this was mildly helpful to you, OP. I really wish you luck with your boy, he's a cutie!


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## WesternBella (Jan 7, 2012)

Wallaby said:


> I hope this is not offensive, I don't mean it that way at all (and I haven't read every single post in this thread so forgive me if someone has said this already), forgive me if it comes across that way!
> 
> Anyway, this is just me thinking. I may be completely off base here, but didn't you just recently post something else about how angry you got around/at this horse?
> If being angry at him is a regular thing, he may be getting more and more nervous about being around you due to the unpredictability that he sees in your nature.
> ...


I really appreciate your opinion but I just don't know what to do anymore! You said it, it's a long thread! With many thoughts and opinions shared, that makes it totally hard for me to decide what is right. I'm so confused now, I really don't know what to do.

And as for the mood thing, my coach tells me that I have to be more strict with him because he is a horse that will walk all over you it he gets the chance to. So I have recently stopped letting him get away with things, that has been a change but he has been doing this long before that.

And thanks, he is my handsome boy!  "Handsome Ransom!" <3
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

OP is there a way you could tape how you react with him? Like grooming, before riding, mounting up, etc. ?


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## Crossover (Sep 18, 2010)

WesternBella said:


> And I don't hold the reins when I mount, I just let them sit on his neck while I grab onto the horn
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You might want to avoid doing this. Using the horn to help you get on, even with a mounting block might be bothering him. Use the mane. The horse might handle that better than some solid object trying to rearrange his withers.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

All that's going on here is he's thinking "oh crap, if she gets on I'm gonna have to work. Perhaps a little threat will deter her and I get to go back to my stall". He's testing her. I owned one that did that, I'd start to lift my foot and out came the back leg. I'd put my foot down then lift again. He finally got tired of it and I just got on. Then he tried kicking at his belly. I just sat and waited it out. After a few days of doing this he just gave up as it got him nowhere.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

WesternBella said:


> The only thing that is different is one rider & my coach, we ride in the same exact space every time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So he does not try to kick out when your coach is there?

My guess - he has respect for the coach - and not you.

I won't take crap from horses. I certainly don't beat them but I have a general 'don't mess with me' attitude. (I have to - I am 5'3" 110 pounds) The horses seem to pick up on that and generally don't try things with me.

We don't as a rule 'control' horses. They have respect and do as we ask. If it came down to a war - the horse would win every time out of sheer size and strength (and better ammunition - teeth and hooves).


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