# Color to register my colt as



## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

Can you just check off a box that says: TOO CUTE!


I know APHA colors are not always 100% accurate and registries are behind the times with color genetics, so with that in mind I would declare him Dun.


----------



## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

Looks like he has dun factor markings on his legs, I'd say go with dun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

He looks like an apricot dun to me <3
So cute!


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

If the sire is indeed perlino, then the foal has to have one cream gene. This would make him either buckskin or palomino. Since he has obvious black on his hard points, he's buckskin.

If sire was dunalino (palomino dun), foal could have still inherited a cream gene, as well as a dun gene. In this case, as he appears to be bay-based (if he wasn't, he wouldn't have the dark mane, tail and legs), it appears he inherited the cream gene and possibly the dun gene, making at least a buckskin, possibly a dunskin (buckskin dun).

In order for the foal to have inherited a dun gene, though, one of the parents would have had to be dun. No dun parent, means no dun foal.

Only way to know for sure is to have him tested, but I would register him as buckskin, unless the breeder knows if the sire carries a dun gene.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

The stud is a Perlino, the colt from the same parents last year is a grulla. His legs are chocolate brown and there's no black in his mane or tail, it's all chocolate brown and different shades of white and tan. Plus I think he has too much of a dorsal stripe to be an actual buckskin, he'd he to be a dunskin but his mane & tail coloring makes him a dunalino to me just because there's no black


----------



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

JLazyT said:


> The stud is a Perlino, the colt from the same parents last year is a grulla. His legs are chocolate brown and there's no black in his mane or tail, it's all chocolate brown and different shades of white and tan. Plus I think he has too much of a dorsal stripe to be an actual buckskin, he'd he to be a dunskin but his mane & tail coloring makes him a dunalino to me just because there's no black


The black is very obvious to me in both the mane/tail and legs. Unless the horse looks VERY different in person there's no way it's a palomino or dunalino. If that were the case his legs wouldn't be the dark color that they are, and there wouldn't be dark coloration coming in through the mane and tail. Since the colt has one perlino parent and one bay parent he should be either palomino or buckskin, and a palomino wouldn't have that dark coloration. 

I would personally say buckskin. I'm not an expert on duns, but the dorsal stripe looks quite faint in the second picture, and there doesn't look to be one at all in the third picture (wouldn't be visible due to the angle in the first picture). The half sibling could very well get the dun gene from the unrelated parent. If one parent is truly a bay (no dun gene- it would be fairly obvious) and the other is a perlino (no dun gene, though I'm not sure how the dun gene affects perlinos visually) then there's no way this foal would carry the dun gene and be a dunskin. One parent must exhibit the gene for the foal to exhibit it.

Edit: Oops, I just read that last year's foal from both of the same parents is a grulla. So (if that's indeed the case- I would rely on my OWN observation and not what someone else told me... seems unlikely with a perlino parent) then the dun gene would indeed be in there and your foal would have a 50% chance of having it.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

The only way for the foal to get a dun gene is if one parent carries dun. Since the dam is bay, the sire must be a perlino dun. 

He would have no dark coloring anywhere if he was a dunalino. Since his legs are dark and he has black in his mane and tail, he HAS to be a buckskin. 

Any idea the colors of the sire and dam's parents? In order for him to be red-based (which dunalino would be red-based), both the sire and dam would have to have a red gene (obtained from their parents).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Buckskin + dun is what I would list on the registration application. Be sure to add photos that show the dun markings like the leg barring and dorsal stripe. If in fact he turns out to be just a buckskin when he sheds next spring it's much easier to get the registry to drop dun off the color listing than it would be to get them to add it if he retains the dun markings.


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't think APHA lets you register as dunskin/buckskin dun, so I'd go with buckskin. You know 100% he's buckskin (that is, black with agouti and one cream), but I'd say it's not certain he's carrying dun (from those photos at least) unless you got him DNA tested or knew the sire to be homozygous for dun.


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

You can see his dorsal in one of these pictures, the other is of him when he was very young and didn't have any dark coloring yet. Now his legs are brown like a chocolate bar but he doesn't have any actual black on him, it's all just dark brown which is why I wouldn't consider him a buckskin unless he's going to keep getting darker. His dad has tons of names with "dun" in them such as Dun With Rum and Dunn Marked By Chex and Poco Dun so I would assume there's dun factor there somewhere. Not sure on mom, the paints on her papers are either brown, bay, or black and it doesn't say the colors of the quarter horses. I can try to register him as dun and a buckskin, but I think he's just going to be a dun


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

JLazyT said:


> His dad has tons of names with "dun" in them such as Dun With Rum and Dunn Marked By Chex and Poco Dun so I would assume there's dun factor there somewhere.


I wouldn't put too much stock in names. My horse's dam is named King Pearly, and she is neither male nor carries the pearl gene ;-) Even if there are a bunch of horses in the sire's pedigree that carry dun, it doesn't mean that he inherited it or passed it on to your foal. Also, a lot of foals show dun characteristics then shed them out later (foal camouflage).

The legs being chocolate brown instead of black isn't an indicator of anything definitive. You know he has to have a cream gene, so he's either buckskin or dunskin, and definitely not just a regular dun.


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

Dunn Marked By Chex is a dun stallion and so are at least 6 horses back in his bloodline too so there is quite a bit of dun on the sires bloodline


This is from his website:

This heavy dun factor stallion has 18 dun factor pts with IBHA. 
He is a natural pleasure horse. Siring over 90% dun, grullo, and black.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

i would say Dun . Duns have the dorsal stripe and zebra marks on the legs. 
I would not call him buckskin. 
He is almost a yellow dun. 
cute baby.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Stevenson, he HAS to be either buckskin or palomino. He can't be anything else (unless you add the dun factor in, but we're just talking base color right now). Sire carries two cream genes, so one of them had to get passed on and the only way for cream to hide is on a black coat, which this colt obviously doesn't have. 

OP, doesn't matter if his legs are chocolate or black. They are dark, which makes him NOT palomino, which means he HAS to be buckskin. Like I said, cream only hides on black horses and he's obviously not a black, but he has to have gotten one cream gene from his sire. There is absolutely no way he couldn't have. This is all dun factor aside, just talking about his base color. He could also be a brown-based buckskin, since the dam has brown in her pedigree. That would account for the chocolate coloring on his legs.

Not sure how the APHA colors work, but at the least I would register him as a buckskin. Buckskin dun would be the most accurate, though. However, you register him as a red dun or even bay dun and his papers WILL NOT match his color when he's an adult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

As said, the legs being chocolate don't mean that he isn't a buckskin- It does, however, mean that he is definitely not a palomino. Given the perlino and bay parents those are the only two base options there, so palomino is ruled out. Based on that he can't be a "regular" dun. 

I also don't put any faith into what's written down on registration papers. My boy was VERY clearly a bay, but more of a wild-type bay with very little dark coloration on his legs. However, the black mane and tail were dead giveaways. AQHA had him registered as a chestnut. His dad was a buckskin, and AQHA had him listed as a grulla. 

I still stand by registering him as a buckskin/dun. If that's not listed as an option I'd probably go with listing him as a buckskin.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

OP, here is a dunskin (buckskin dun) half arab colt colored VERY similarly to your colt.









And a dunskin (buckskin dun) with frosting, which is what is causing the white/tan in your colt's mane and tail.


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

I've seen horses with dark brown legs be classified as dunalino before and a couple have looked just like him. I'll just check both the dun and buckskin boxes. They'll decide what he is with the pictures I send in. I'll probably have to color test him anyway.


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

I just talked to APHA and they said leave it blank & they'll decide so I guess we'll see what they mark for him.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Not everyone is aware of how colors and color genetics work, OP. 

Think of it as layers on a cake. You start out with a base color, either red or black. On top of that, you can add agouti, which creates bay or brown on black-based horses, but doesn't affect red-based. Then, you add the other modifiers, like cream, dun, roan, grey, etc. 

Here's where the problem with registering your colt as a dunalino (palomino dun) comes in. Both of his parents would have to carry a red gene in order for him to be red-based, since black is dominant over red (so it takes two red genes for a horse to display a red-based coat color like chestnut, palomino or dunalino). You've already said that all of his dam's ancestors are registered as bay, brown or black, which are all black-based, so no red gene. The sire is only producing black-based horses as well (grulla is black plus dun, just dun is bay dun which is bay plus dun, and black speaks for itself). So, he obviously doesn't carry a red gene either. That means that the colt can't be palomino. There is absolutely no possible way. He _has_ to be black-based. Since he's obviously not just black, he inherited at least one agouti gene from his parents, making him bay. Then he had to inherit a creme gene from his sire (no way he couldn't), which turns bay into buckskin. THEN you can add the dun on top of that.


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

JLazyT said:


> I'll just check both the dun and buckskin boxes. They'll decide what he is with the pictures I send in. I'll probably have to color test him anyway.


This is probably the best idea- even though they'll 'decide' what color he is based on the photos, it doesn't hurt to give them a little nudge in the right direction. 

You won't have to color test him unless you want to for your own curiosity. It's possible APHA might update the registration if color testing shows that they recorded him as the wrong color, but I'm not sure what their policy is on that.


----------



## BreezylBeezyl (Mar 25, 2014)

For me it's so hard to tell, honestly. In the first picture, I definitely see some minor striping on the legs. But I am not convinced that the dun gene is there because I don't see the dorsal stripe, just some countershading down the spine. My bay mare has this, for example.

...But the mane, tail, and legs don't look dark enough for a buckskin...

I'm so confused! If anything, he looks Amber Champagne, although probably not possible with the genetics he's got.

Maybe dunskin?


----------



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Not everyone is aware of how colors and color genetics work, OP.
> 
> Think of it as layers on a cake. You start out with a base color, either red or black. On top of that, you can add agouti, which creates bay or brown on black-based horses, but doesn't affect red-based. Then, you add the other modifiers, like cream, dun, roan, grey, etc.
> 
> Here's where the problem with registering your colt as a dunalino (palomino dun) comes in. Both of his parents would have to carry a red gene in order for him to be red-based, since black is dominant over red (so it takes two red genes for a horse to display a red-based coat color like chestnut, palomino or dunalino). You've already said that all of his dam's ancestors are registered as bay, brown or black, which are all black-based, so no red gene. The sire is only producing black-based horses as well (grulla is black plus dun, just dun is bay dun which is bay plus dun, and black speaks for itself). So, he obviously doesn't carry a red gene either. That means that the colt can't be palomino. There is absolutely no possible way. He _has_ to be black-based. Since he's obviously not just black, he inherited at least one agouti gene from his parents, making him bay. Then he had to inherit a creme gene from his sire (no way he couldn't), which turns bay into buckskin. THEN you can add the dun on top of that.


Being that black is dominant over red the red gene could hide out for MANY generations before showing itself, so just because all of the dam's ancestors are registered as bay/black/etc doesn't mean that there's no way the horse carries it. It just simply wouldn't ever show up unless that horse was bred to another horse carrying the red gene- be it one exhibiting the trait or a black based horse that was simply carrying it. Same with the sire- just because he HASN'T produced a red based horse doesn't mean that he doesn't carry the gene. It could simply mean that he was bred to dams that did not carry the red gene or that he threw a more than likely number of black based foals. It's definitely not impossible (given the information we know, and neglecting the photos) for this foal to have been born a palomino. Genetic testing on both sire and dam to see if they carried red would help to rule out that possibility. It's part of the nature of recessive genes- they can hide out for many, many generations if necessary. They won't actually be exhibited unless bred to another horse carrying it. 

It's the same reason why I had my breeding dogs color tested even though none of their ancestors have been chocolate or blue colored in as many generations as I can tell. One of them does happen to carry chocolate, but his parents and grandparents were both black. He has never produced a chocolate puppy because we've never bred him to a chocolate carrier. 

All that said, I do agree that this foal is buckskin... just saying that it's not impossible for a foal resulting from that breeding to be palomino given the info we know (unless I missed some key piece of information). OP, it does not surprise me at all that you've seen foals looking like yours registered as palominos. A lot of people don't put very much thought into color registration, and so such forms are frequently filled out incorrectly- as I mentioned above with my obviously bay QH registered as a chestnut. Mistakes do happen, and I do really think that registering a foal with this coloration as a palomino would be incorrect. 

Were it me I'd have him tested just to satisfy my own curiosity. In the huge grand scheme of things I doubt it matters that much what he's registered as unless you intend to breed him. If that is the case I would definitely have him tested. I'd do as you originally thought and check both the buckskin and dun boxes and let them figure out what they want to do about it from there. 

If you do let them decide what to put down please let us know what they think. I'll be curious to know! Also let us know what the results are if you get him tested. Again, I'm a curious person!


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

DuckDodgers, I was trying to keep it simple for the OP. ;-) The chances of a red gene sneaking through so many generations on both sire and dam's side, while not unheard of, is pretty remote. Especially since (and I'm going on the assumption that the sire has been bred to red-based mares) the sire is only producing bay dun, grullo and black.


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

I don't know about half of his dams breeding from her papers, the only ones with colors shown are those registered as paints and I don't have enough credits on my aqha account to look up the colors of all the quarter horses on her papers. The mare has thrown bucksins, grulla, and chestnut that I have seen pictures of. The rest of her babies I don't know what colors, not all have been the same stallion. The only baby I have seen from this stallion was a grulla last year, I didn't ask about the rest. But his striping is getting more prominent as weeks go on and his dorsal does appear darker when he's actually clean. less than a month ago his legs were still covered in white/gray baby fur and everything is still changing except his mane and tail are still mostly white/cream. My original assumption was a dunskin, but breeder said dunalino. However neither is technically a registered color and if I do check both buckskin and dun they will classify him as one or the other themselves. This is what the lady I talked to at APHA told me.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

So, that means the dam carries a red gene, if she threw a chestnut. As for the sire, based on what you quoted from his website, he hasn't thrown any red-based foals and I would guess that he's been bred to red-based mares. 

I wonder if the sire is on allbreedpedigree.com . That would give us a better idea what his zygosity is (whether he's homozygous or heterozygous black).


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

Sire is ? King Fritz Olena, theres a couple letters in the front I can't remember. The sire's sire is Dunn Marked By Chex and the sire's dam is Dun With Rum. Both are on allbreed. His dam is Gold N Money and she is on there as well.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Okay, so sire's sire is a buckskin dun and appears to be homozygous black (slight possibility he's hetero, but like I said, since he's only thrown black, grullo and bay dun, I'm going to say he's probably ****). Kind of annoying that the sire's dam's color isn't listed, but her dam's dam is a chestnut, so it's possible a red gene snuck through there. 

Okay, here's the sire on allbreedpedigree : Wlz King Fritz Olena Quarter Horse

So he is definitely a perlino dun. Which means your colt did get a dun gene from him.


----------



## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

I don't think the dorsal is strong enough to be more than countershading. We need much clearer pictures to decide that. He's very clearly bay based with cream, so definitely a buckskin. Dunskins are in general more peachy colored, not so distinctly creamy. Dun on this colt is debatable, again I would need to see clear pictures to decide if I think he carries dun.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

I'm going to try a bath tonight and I'll take pictures of him clean


----------



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> DuckDodgers, I was trying to keep it simple for the OP. ;-) The chances of a red gene sneaking through so many generations on both sire and dam's side, while not unheard of, is pretty remote. Especially since (and I'm going on the assumption that the sire has been bred to red-based mares) the sire is only producing bay dun, grullo and black.


Simplicity is one thing, but saying that he "obviously doesn't carry a red gene" or that "there is absolutely no possible way" for the colt to be a palomino (again, based on the info we know... genetic testing would verify) is wrong, not simplified. I'm not trying to start an argument, just pointing out that is IS possible! Plus, I wouldn't rely on listed registration colors of offspring that heavily when trying to determine this stuff unless there are accompanying photos!


----------



## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

A perlino and a bay could absolutely produce a palomino, if both are Ee at extension. Just because the chance is small, and it really isn't, the chance is there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

JLazyT said:


> The stud is a Perlino, the colt from the same parents last year is a grulla. His legs are chocolate brown and there's no black in his mane or tail, it's all chocolate brown and different shades of white and tan. Plus I think he has too much of a dorsal stripe to be an actual buckskin, he'd he to be a dunskin but his mane & tail coloring makes him a dunalino to me just because there's no black


You are using all sorts of color terminology but I am not sure you quite understand it. 

There are two different dilute genes you are talking about. Cream makes palominos and buckskins when one copy of cream is present while Dun makes red dun, bay dun and grullo. The base coat (chestnut, bay, black) makes the difference as to what their color is with a dilute or combination of dilutes. 

Perlino, as you say the sire is, is a homozgous cream on a bay base coat. 100% of his foals would receive a cream gene. 

If the sire is perlino and carries at least one dun gene, he would be a perlino dun, 100% of offspring would receive a cream dilute as well as a dun gene if he was homozygous dun or a 50% chance of dun if he were heterozygous dun. 

As far as last year's foal, you cannot get a grullo when you cross a perlino and a bay. Grullo is at least one dun gene on a black horse. The colt is also only a yearling, black points can take a few years to mature and some dilutes will always have more of a "chocolate" color instead of a deep black. 

As far as having a dorsal, sometimes it is meerly countershading and has nothing to do with dun. Foals especially are more prone to dun markings because it creates natural camouflage. At least one of your pictures of the colt shows no distinct dorsal. 

He is absolutely not a red dun, no idea what the breeder was thinking on that color suggestion. Red dun is a chestnut horse with dun, the coat colors would be light chestnut and dark chestnut. 

He is also not a dunalino, that is a chestnut horse with 1 cream (palomino) and at least 1 dun. 

Your colt is bay based, black and agouti and has at least one dilute. Cream is obvious with those yellow tones which would make him buckskin which is what you typically get when you cross a perlino with a bay. If you really think he also has dun to be a dunskin, pull some hairs and send them in for testing, costs $25. Although I am not sure if APHA has dunskin as a color option, if it doesn't, go with buckskin, he will be mistaken as buckskin more often than not if he actually is a dunskin ;-)


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

He's only a May baby so he's probably going to keep changing as he gets older. Like is said, a few weeks ago his legs were a grey/off white color and then they shed out to the chocolate. The APHA lady told me to leave color blank but I will mark dun and buckskin and they can decide what he is.


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

JLazyT said:


> He's only a May baby so he's probably going to keep changing as he gets older. Like is said, a few weeks ago his legs were a grey/off white color and then they shed out to the chocolate. The APHA lady told me to leave color blank but I will mark dun and buckskin and they can decide what he is.


Registries, especially APHA, are notorious for registering a horse the wrong color. Another forum memeber sent papers into APHA to register their dominant white paint (pink skinned giant white marking covering the whole horse) and APHA ignored their color choice and when the member got the registration papers back, found out that APHA had decided that their horse's color was gray. That is the danger of less than knowledgeable office workers deciding your horse's color. I would strongly recommend just marking the buckskin box, otherwise you could end up with a very wrong color on the registration papers and you would have to pay to get it changed. He is too creamy colored to be just dun and definitely has the cream and the dun is still questionable ;-)


----------



## JLazyT (Sep 1, 2015)

He's got the striping on the legs and a little more visible stripe now that he's clean


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Mom is bay. Dad is bay + 2 creams + dun (perlino dun).

Therefore baby is bay (very slight chance of chestnut or black, which are dismissed via pictures) + 1 cream + 50% chance of dun (proved via pictures).

Bay + 1 cream + dun = dunskin.

I don't think it's that complicated!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

OP - phenotype can change. Genotype does not. You cannot use phenotype to pick which color the horse is (well you CAN..) nor does that whole "black points" thing mean "must be jet black or else". I think you are reading too much into his shading and natural variations as well as baby color. He's a dunskin.

And a very cute one


----------



## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

No dun, IMO. His dorsal doesn't look nearly prominent enough. It should be much darker, and run through the tail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Sunny, couldn't the cream hide on a grullo, since it's black plus dun and cream hides on black as a smokey black? Just curious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Sunny, couldn't the cream hide on a grullo, since it's black plus dun and cream hides on black as a smokey black? Just curious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It wouldn't "hide" because the dun would give enough dilute to the black for the cream to show. Cream cannot dilute black by itself unless there are two copies of cream. That said, the description of the "grullo" yearling full brother did not sound like grullo ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

JLazyT said:


> He's got the striping on the legs and a little more visible stripe now that he's clean


As a reference to foal coat colors... Here are two foals my family had in 2013








The foal on the left has very light colored legs and a distinct dorsal. The foal on the right also has a dorsal, shoulder barring and leg barring (can't see the leg barring as well in this particular photo, very distinct in other photos)
These fillies are half sisters, born exactly one week apart which is funny because their dams were also bred exactly one week apart :lol:

As for color, can you tell what their adult color will be at this point? Obviously they are both black based but both appear to have a dun gene but neither of them have any kind of dilute. The filly on the left is out of a chestnut mare and the filly on the right is out of a black mare, they are sired by a homozygous black stallion who is a deep non-fading black color. I could also post pictures of them older and the filly on the left is very bay with dark black/almost black legs and a very red body while the filly on right is very black but is also very prone to sun fading like her color tested black dam. 

And I laugh about what the vet said about the filly on the right's color... My mom asked the vet about all her extreme dun factor while he was checking the filly's immunity levels as a newborn... Vet said, "oh, that is a sign she carries agouti"  yeah, he is an awesome equine repro vet but not so good about color genetics and foal coat colors


----------



## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

^^^ bay (left) and black foals (right) Draco. They lack the body dilution of dun. All duns have a dorsal (though can be hard to see on double dilutes), but not always does a dorsal make a dun. Without clear photos from the OP I won't weigh in on the dun on her colt. Even the new photos are really blurry and hard to tell if the dorsal continues into the tail. The strong leg barring does suggest dun, but I have seen some very convincing counter shaded leg bars and dorsals on horses before.


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Tryst said:


> ^^^ bay (left) and black foals (right) Draco. They lack the body dilution of dun. All duns have a dorsal (though can be hard to see on double dilutes), but not always does a dorsal make a dun. Without clear photos from the OP I won't weigh in on the dun on her colt. Even the new photos are really blurry and hard to tell if the dorsal continues into the tail. The strong leg barring does suggest dun, but I have seen some very convincing counter shaded leg bars and dorsals on horses before.


I really question the dun being in the OP's horse as there is a picture in the original post that has absolutely no dorsal, never known a foal with dun to go through a time period when the dorsal isn't distinct. 

The only way the OP would know without a doubt if dun was present in their buckskin to be dunskin would be color testing for dun. The OP trusts the breeder as to coat color which is unfortunate in this case as the color options the breeder says he is completely incorrect. Besides, to have red dun and not dunalino means the breeder doesn't understand the perlino sire will always through cream to make cream dilutes, but that doesn't mean all his foals will be duns even if they have dun factor. 

I posted the picture of the two foals to show two things, non duns can have strong dun factor and that black legs can be extremely light/blonde/not black as a foal. The OP's colt is definitely black based, even if he looks more chocolate right now. The breeder claimed he was red dun or dunalino, neither would have a dark chocolate mane/color in the tail. The OP followed those thoughts because he has a dorsal and very whitish/blonde legs even though they are starting to get darker/more chocolate colored.


----------



## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

What we know for sure is the colt is a buckskin, the only question is does he also have dun. I'm not sure there is enough info, and to hard to tell with the pics on a horse this young, how old is he? I could find try and find some pics of my buckskin dun at this age for reference. His dorsal wasn't super obvious when he was born, but being that his mom was DD (and dad was Dd) there wasn't much question with him. Most the pics of this colt look more like counter shading, BUT with the stripes on the legs I'm thinking dun is possible, he's still young and like I said Quest's was pretty light at first. I've seen more then my share of mislabeled grullos so without a pic that doesn't even factor in to my opinion (especially if the one that determined he was a grullo was the same one claiming this colt is red dun or palomino dun).

If he was mine I'd register him as buckskin, because that is what is known for sure, and you'll only be able to choose one buckskin or dun, they won't let you pick both. In the end, in my experience, APHA will choose the color they want. I put Buckskin on mine, they registered him as dun (both is correct). I had a blue roan filly they registered as gray (I marked blue roan), my grulla mare was registered as dun (don't know if that was APHA or her breeder).

So your colt is buckskin, and if he also carries dun you should be able to tell for sure as he ages, and if you are still in doubt, post updated pics and we can probably help you out.


----------



## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I am not a color guru by any stretch of the imagination, but I looked at the picture of your foal and saw a buckskin. Just sayin'.....


----------



## ttr (Jul 18, 2013)

I know this is an old post but he definitely has the dun gene as his sire is homozygous for it!


----------



## ttr (Jul 18, 2013)

Let's see if I can get the picture to attach...


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Sounds like it's settled then- he's definitely dunskin. That doesn't really solve your dilemma as to what color to mark on his registration papers, though  Have you already sent them in? What did you go with, and what did they register him as?


----------



## RavenwoodLily (Apr 5, 2016)

Dunalino sounds about right. My grandmother had a dunalino broodmare whose color was just about exactly like his. 

Also, he is very cute!


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

RavenwoodLily said:


> Dunalino sounds about right. My grandmother had a dunalino broodmare whose color was just about exactly like his.
> 
> Also, he is very cute!


I believe color testing revealed that the colt was, in fact, dunskin. :wink:


----------

