# English Hunter critique?



## Bluezepher94 (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi.  
I don't have a complete understanding of_ exactly_ what judges look for when showing in English Hunter, so I'd like to get some critique on my riding from a hunter (instead of an equitation) point of view. Thank you very much! 
I also have a question about showing, although it doesn't belong on this board, I didn't want to make a totally separate post. If your horse spooks during a show (assuming you stay on) do you lose points or are you disqualified or can you just resume the course? Thank you. 

Link to the video of me riding: 
[The song in the video contains some bad language.].
showcrits.mp4 video by maggie1994xo - Photobucket


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

What level do you plan on showing? Locally? Rated? 

In general Working Hunters is judged on the horses way of going. Should be forward, consistent and pleasant, with the horse moving balanced and in a lowish/appropriate frame. 

I spook won't get you kicked out, provided you can get your horse back under control. But depending on the level of spook, it will probably knock you out of pinning. 

You and your horse are a nice pair for the local level. If you're prepping for shows, I'd work on bringing your horse off his forehand and developing nice forward gaits. You have the cadence. Once your horse is working off his hind end he'll naturally start to carry his neck/head properly. He really pokes out nose out in the canter. 

This is a general... I haven't shown Hunters in 3 years, and things are always changing, there may be others who can give you some more specific direction.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

The horse in the video is not sound behind at the walk or trot. 

Not being able to jog sound will get you eliminated.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

Maura is correct. That horse is unsound, and will be disqualified.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Maura is right. That horse isn't sound for riding, much less a hunter show.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

^^Agreed.


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## Bluezepher94 (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks. 

@Mudpaint: Well I've only been riding 2-3 years and I've never showed before, so I'll probably only do Local Shows. I don't plan on showing in anything big for a while (if I ever do.) I'm most likely showing in Beginner Equitation (which is why I don't know much about hunters.)

@Maura, Charis, Riccil0ve, Apachiedragon: He's around 24-25 years old now. He's not my horse - he's a horse I ride in lessons and will probably show with (in equitation though, not hunters.). I really don't plan on doing anything more than a few small, local shows with 18inch, 4-jump courses, right now.


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

He is not sound enough to walk, much less trot or be asked to jump. You have been informed that he is lame; he is not riding sound. He is in a lot of pain, and to continue riding him in this condition is not a good thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Well I see a horse that *FOR ITS AGE* is not bad at all. Looks stiff and is on the forehand but I find many horses in lower level hunter to be on the forehand.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

^^^^ Agree'd. ^^^^ I see a 25 year old boy who is compliant and doing his job to the best of his abilities. Stiff, yes, but not "unsound to ride".

Besides, not our horse, not your horse, not the OP's horse. Not our decision, nor is it the OP's decision - but only the owners, on what to do with the horse. The care and the needs of the horse, are addressed by the owner - no one elses.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> Besides, not our horse, not your horse, not the OP's horse. Not our decision, nor is it the OP's decision - but only the owners, on what to do with the horse. The care and the needs of the horse, are addressed by the owner - no one elses.


I usually agree with everything that you say, but I don't agree with this. As riders we each need to judge that for ourselves. If an owner told me to ride a horse that was in discomfort I would not do it just because they asked and it is their horse, I would judge the situation myself. I believe that every rider who is able to do this has an obligation to the horse to do it.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

The OP is just a young girl.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> The OP is just a young girl.


Oh sorry, I could not tell that from her video, I thought that she was late teens, early 20s.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I can't see the video so I can't comment on the soundness of the horse. I just wanted to comment that while I agree the rider is certainly responsible for the well being of their mount, they aren't always experienced enough to make that type of decision, especially when dealing with soundess issues. Not only that but this is a school horse which means the OP is relying on the judgement of her instructor. I have a mare that is mechanically lame, she severed the tendons in her back leg and after a very costly surgery and hospital stay, she's got a stiffness in her rear. Because of her injury I don't force her to use her back end and I do allow her to travel heavy on the forehand. I'm sure that if I posted a video of her I would get comments very similar to the ones posted here tonight, and I know she's not sore at all.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

The OP's age is irrelevant. She may not be experienced enough to see what's going on, maybe she doesn't realize the horse she is riding is lame [and I do see a lame horse] which is why it was brought to her attention. If my mare gets to that point, she will be retired to pampered pasture puff, I certainly wouldn't dream of jumping her. My mare is 18 and has zero arthritis. It is unfair to just say, "He looks good for his age," when not all 25 y/o's will travel like that. I think this horse has probably worked hard for a number of years, and deserves a good pasture. I understand that is not the OP's decision, but that's my honest opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Then ricci - please feel free to contact the owner of the horse and express your concerns.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Why? I'm telling the OP what I would do in her situation; not ride the horse. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Farmpony, I agree with you and this is why I said, 'every rider who is able to'.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

The OP asked for an opinion on suitability for regular Hunter classes. The opinion was given that he will not pass the jog and is not suitable for regular Hunters.

If she wishes to show him in equitation, where the horse is not judged and there is no jog, that's her and and her trainer's call. I wouldn't, but I've certainly seen horses with more signifigant lamenesses showing in the eq. 

I would, however, do everything legally possible to make him more comfortable before he shows. Extra turnout, extra warm up, a small amount a bute.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

maura said:


> The OP asked for an opinion on suitability for regular Hunter classes. The opinion was given that he will not pass the jog and is not suitable for regular Hunters.


Actually that is not what she asked for.

She asked for a critique on HER RIDING from a hunter point of view and scoring should a horse spook. I saw nothing about suitability of the horse in any way.



> If she wishes to show him in equitation, where the horse is not judged and there is no jog, that's her and and her trainer's call. I wouldn't, but I've certainly seen horses with more significant lamenesses showing in the eq.


She pointed out she was doing equitation because she has no experience in riding hunter so from that statement the assumption would be that until she knew more, equitation would be what she would show in.

You are right though about LIMPING horses being shown in equitation as I have seen that and they have even placed.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Spyder, 

I have no desire to argue the point. The OP seems like a reasonable young woman who is capable of taking in all the opinions expressed and then forming her own. 

Your opinion is different than mine, and that's fine. We can't agree on everything. I stand by by original post. I would hope that since that's been said and seconded, there's no more need to "pile on" a poster who's been polite and respectful


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I would caution looking at the show bill before showing *this* horse. Some local shows do have soundness clauses. 

For equitation, be prepared for patterns. Depending on what association the local shows follow, you may be doing a pattern (much like QH shows) or you'll be doing normal rail work. Beyond that, you have general good equitation. Try to work on developing a more consistent contact, at times in the video your reins flop about. That's great for a pleasure class, but not so much for EQ.


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## Bluezepher94 (Jun 19, 2010)

Oh my goodness, I had no idea such a huge debate would come from this. I only asked for critique of my own riding prospect (or lackthereof) for a hunter show. First of all, I would never, ever purposely hurt a horse. o_o Like I said, (I'm 16) I've only been around horses for a little over two years, so I have no experience when it comes to determining whether a horse is sound or not. Since I lack experience, and I only ride in weekly lessons, I rely completely on my trainer to tell me who I should ride and how. I also only recently started riding at this barn, so this horse is brand new to me. In this video (taken around a month ago), I'm riding/seeing him for only the 2nd time. I'm not aware of his past, his turnout schedule, any medications he might be on, or injuries he might have or have had. It never seemed like he was in pain to me - he always acted fine. I don't push him to go faster at all or anything like that. My trainer and multiple other people who know this horse well have watched me ride him and haven't mentioned anything (that I know of) of him being lame. I still have A LOT more to learn before I'd ever consider purchasing my own horse. As for right now, I can honestly say, I don't have any experience on determining whether a horse is lame or not. Thank you very much to everyone who already stated this for me and thank you to everyone who _did_ offer me constructive criticism.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Bluezehper, 

I apologize for taking this thread off track, and I want to thank you for your calm attitude about all the furor. I do understand that this is a school horse you do not have control over, and that you are taking your trainer's advice.

I'm going to apologize further that I can't offer you a detailed critique of your riding right now, as I am at work and can't view the video.

However, I wonder if you're clear on the differences between hunters and equitation? (If you are, I'll apologize the third time.) Equitation is judged soley on the rider, and at the lower levels is judged mostly on position and control of the horse. So any comfortable horse that shows off the rider's ability is suitable for equiatation. Hunters are judged soley on the horse - suitability, style, soundness, manners, way of going and form over fences. So, if you're doing well showing equitation, then yes, you're a doing well as a hunter _rider._ 

I understood your initial question to be about how well you'd do in the hunters, as opposed to equitation. The answer, in my opinion, is that the horse in the video is a poor choice to compete in the hunters, since that is judged soley on the horse's way of going, etc. and I believe the horse has some issues. 

With a suitable partner, you might do very well in the hunters. 

Welcome to the board, and I am sorry if your introduction was a little rocky.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

maura said:


> Bluezehper,
> 
> I apologize for taking this thread off track, and I want to thank you for your calm attitude about all the furor. I do understand that this is a school horse you do not have control over, and that you are taking your trainer's advice.
> 
> ...


Isn't there hunter equitation though? I thought pleasure judged the horse and equitation judged the rider, and hunter is just a discipline


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## MudPaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Ahh the glory of local shows and calling it what they want. 

Technically Hunter encompasses those that are going in a way that resembles a fox hunter. And I use Technically very loosely here. Generally the classes are Hunter Hack, Working Hunter (over fences and flat), Model Hunter (similar to a flat and halter class combined). There may be some category differences, like baby green, modified, schooling etc, these generally are levels and the show bill will describe what they are being judged on cause each place is different. 

Eq usually falls under the regular English category. And will be broken down by age/experience. This is solely on the rider. And sounds like what you are going for. Over fences, the course may be harder to test the rider's ability. 

Though for A shows and over fences it is to be ridden like a Hunter class... forward, consistent..

There is also Pleasure... this can be labeled as Hunter or just English but is usually judged solely on the horse and how much of a "pleasure" it would be to ride.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

OP, I'm pleased with your response. I did not mean to point a finger at you, and I don't think anyone else did either. I think we all understand that this is not your fault, or something you can control. I apologize that it had gotten a little off track. I just want to add that riding a horse who travels in such a way will affect your riding. If your horse has to compensate for his "disability," you will also have to compensate. Make sense? Just be aware that you may have to relearn a number of things when you get on a sounder horse. And lastly, I strongly suggest you not jump this horse. Good luck with everything, cheers!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Charis (Jul 6, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> OP, I'm pleased with your response. I did not mean to point a finger at you, and I don't think anyone else did either. I think we all understand that this is not your fault, or something you can control. I apologize that it had gotten a little off track. I just want to add that riding a horse who travels in such a way will affect your riding. If your horse has to compensate for his "disability," you will also have to compensate. Make sense? Just be aware that you may have to relearn a number of things when you get on a sounder horse. And lastly, I strongly suggest you not jump this horse. Good luck with everything, cheers!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wholeheartedly agreed. You were very mature in your response- bravo! I personally would not recommend jumping this horse, I don't think he would be very comfortable doing it. It is something you can discuss with your trainer.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_There are no patterns in Hunter Eq that I am aware of. It is just walk, trot, sitting trot and canter. Possibly an "Eq canter" which to me means more collected then a regular canter._

_Since Eq means you will be judged, I think you shall be fine. Remember that if the judge asks you to trot into line....TROT into line and have a good halt. It will make a difference in pining._

_When I ride a Eq class compared to a hunter class, I just sit up a little more and dont have such a "forward" seat. Somewhere between a forward seat and a dressage seat. I also pick my hands up a little more so they are just around my belly buttons instead of closer to the withers. _

_Dont forget to practice a show reverse...or changing rein on the rail as you wont cross the arena like you would in lessons. A show reverse is a tear drop shaped circle. If you are on the rail with your left to the inside, steer off the rail to the left on a bit of an angle and then turn to the right. Do not make a small tight little circle, but one where the horse can turn comfortably._


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