# How should I handle this? *If I am offered this job*



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

It's common courtesy to give your current employer a full two weeks. That means, your normal 40 hours. Then you aren't burning any bridges.

Your new job should understand this common courtesy and *wait* to have you do anything until the 2 weeks are up. Unless, you plan to come after hours you aren't working at your usual job.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Timed out, have to paste this here.

You see this is what I've asked myself 3 weeks ago.

Would you rather work a job where it's the best and most exciting stuff ever and you enjoy the team, the flexibility it gives you, but ultimately at the end of the day you don't respect the person at the top who is paying you.

Or

Would you rather work a lesser job, one that is not nearly as exciting, doesn't give you the same flexibility in your schedule, it's a further drive, but the communication with the person at the top is there, the management team are top notch and they respect you and you respect them. You also have a security blanket to fall back on and potential for raises.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm not up to date on your current job situation. Considering though that I have seen you swing from respecting and liking a 'boss' to the opposite side of the pendulum in a very short time - I would suggest you not compare the bosses in terms of if you like/respect them/him.

Having benefits of tax withholding and EI record is significant.

Being paid more currently is a big plus, but if they had to pay taxes and benefits it would cost them much more than $1-$2 per hour. 

Getting to fly a drone is pretty big. I'm sure my son would move to Canada for that job.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

beau159 said:


> It's common courtesy to give your current employer a full two weeks. That means, your normal 40 hours. Then you aren't burning any bridges.
> 
> Your new job should understand this common courtesy and *wait* to have you do anything until the 2 weeks are up. Unless, you plan to come after hours you aren't working at your usual job.


Thanks but what if they said that it's a deal breaker? (They never said this but you never know).

My boss now could get upset and just say "okay lets make today or this week your last week"


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

anndankev said:


> I'm not up to date on your current job situation. Considering though that I have seen you swing from respecting and liking a 'boss' to the opposite side of the pendulum in a very short time - I would suggest you not compare the bosses in terms of if you like/respect them/him.
> 
> Having benefits of tax withholding and EI record is significant.
> 
> ...


I've never respected my current boss. I hit my threshold about 3 weeks ago where I was the most stressed out that I've been in the 1.5 years working for him after being almost two weeks late on a another pay cheque. This was after he was blatantly ignoring my texts and emails for over a week asking about my pay. Don't even get me started about how he's lied to my face about payroll. I can only take so much and this was when I had it with him. Ignoring your staff emails and texts about something very important like pay is a huge slap in their face. He obviously doesn't respect me and I don't respect him. 

I know it, he knows it. There is not a healthy working relationship between him and I. I'm sure he knows it by now that when I see him, I am 100% absolutely faking it in terms of me being sincere and nice to him. He knows that our personalities clash. I think the both of us have just toughed it out all this time to get to the end result but man is it ever stressful at times. He has habits that he won't ever break. He won't change. I think 1.5 years of working for someone should be more than enough time to tell what the person is like as a boss. All I know is, the guy scares me at times but I've learned to adapt to him as a person and put up with it. I've learned to train myself to not let him rattle my cage. But no matter how much you try to hide it, deny it, this black hole between him and I will always exist on our minds. There is no working around it. If he had the chance to back stab me, I have no doubt that he would. 

Pay between the two works out to be a wash, the new job might even work out to be a bit more seeing how I don't need to file my own taxes. When you are self contracted you will always get a bit more than being on payroll.

The big thing I need to ask myself and decide on (and I mean really fast) is whether I am making the right decision if say I get offered this job.

There are pros and cons to each.

The two biggest benefits about my current job is that I am doing what I love (photo,video), I work from home most of the time, have super great flexibility and the team (aside from the person at the top) is great and I love working with them. They are great people. I know that there is a lot of untapped potential on the table here. But we also know that I won't ever get raises since we don't do reviews. And I could get let go tomorrow anytime for all I know. I just don't trust the person at the top. I won't go into detail because I know it's against HF rules but him and I know each other well enough by now and our working relationship is in repairable. I will never respect him and how do you work for someone you don't respect? You can't, at least not long term.

This is why the ultimate question that I need to ask myself is, at this stage in my life would I rather have a job that doesn't interest me near as much and doesn't give me the flexibility but it has much more security for the future and the person who I would work for is great and we have awesome communication and respect for each other.

or

Work doing what I love and skills will carry over to my Equestrian career, have super great flexibility and get along great with everyone on the team. But I will never respect the person at the top and we do not like each other, nor do we have great communication between us because our personalities and work styles are clashing and there is absolutely no security in this job long term. Let me put it this way, if he was to let me go today I would be screwed, no doubt about it.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Did you not think the same thing about your current boss? You met this person once, and you KNOW you have "awesome communication and respect for each other"? What if HE were "faking it"? If you are not willing to step up and report your current boss for wage violations, then you are actually the one with the problem, not him. What he is doing is not right, but is nobody wants to report it, then he will continue. Why would you be SO screwed if he let you go today? Sounds like you are employable enough.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

anndankev said:


> I'm not up to date on your current job situation. Considering though that I have seen you swing from respecting and liking a 'boss' to the opposite side of the pendulum in a very short time - I would suggest you not compare the bosses in terms of if you like/respect them/him.


Totally agree, I believe that this isn't the first time, so personality matches should be considered.

As to the notice, well you need to be honest with both bosses, if you have a two week notice to serve, then that's what you should work, and you should not tell your new boss that you can start any sooner than that, period.

As too choosing where to work, that is entirely your own concern, you must decide


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

You say you have a lot of flexibility in your current job- are you expected to work set hours (eg, 9-5) or are you just expected to work 8 hours a day on average? If the latter, I would give your current job the two weeks notice AND I would also arrange so that you work a couple of hours a day training on the new job (i.e., 8-10am at the new job training and the rest of the work day at the old job). My job is structured as a 50 hour work week so 10 hour days feel normal to me at this point, but I know not everyone thinks about work that way. If it's only for a week though, you should be able to handle it, no?

Only you can answer the question about tradeoffs. Personally, after years of work in research & consulting I wouldn't trade the flexibility to decide when and where I work for anything else. But that's a personal decision.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

greentree said:


> Did you not think the same thing about your current boss? You met this person once, and you KNOW you have "awesome communication and respect for each other"? What if HE were "faking it"?


That is a very good question, that is the trouble with interviews, everyone is kind of playing a role, this may also be a stretch 



> the management team are top notch and they respect you and you respect them


 that is also hard to say in a short meeting, unless you have worked with some of the team previously....


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

If you want to stay where you are....I JUST got an email from Square.....you know, the card reader company.....and they now have AUTOMATIC payroll processing!!!! It actually says that! "Never miss a payroll deadline again....."!!! Deja Vu. You should sign him up!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

greentree said:


> If you want to stay where you are....I JUST got an email from Square.....you know, the card reader company.....and they now have AUTOMATIC payroll processing!!!! It actually says that! "Never miss a payroll deadline again....."!!! Deja Vu. You should sign him up!


There you go, problem solved, that is genius Greetree


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Did you not think the same thing about your current boss? You met this person once, and you KNOW you have "awesome communication and respect for each other"? What if HE were "faking it"? If you are not willing to step up and report your current boss for wage violations, then you are actually the one with the problem, not him. What he is doing is not right, but is nobody wants to report it, then he will continue. Why would you be SO screwed if he let you go today? Sounds like you are employable enough.


My current boss has passed off my payroll to another girl in the company and she now takes care of things (this just happened a month ago). This was after I literally exposed him to every single person in the company including the V.P. I called him out first thing on a Monday morning after I was very upset all weekend of still waiting for my pay and having my texts and emails ignored. 

I called him out demanding my pay right away. My message was blunt and you could tell that I was upset with him, but it was still professional. I was just firm and stern. I basically said that I wanted my money that was now 11 days overdue NOW. Not tomorrow, not in two days, not "soon" but now. And that I didn't care who pays it, I just want it paid. EVERYONE in the company read the message.

And guess what? Within minutes he got it taken care of by getting another girl in the company to take care of the matter. Was he upset? I'm sure he was! But I didn't care! I had to do something.
If there is one thing that I quickly learned about him, it's that he always has to make things so complicated. I've always tried and gone out of my way to make things easy for him, to make up for his incompetence in organization but he's never appreciated what I do for him. Ever.

So payroll is much better now and not so much an issue (at least right now), but let's see how it holds up down the road.

The payroll wasn't the main reason for me leaving, it's the fact that I will never respect the person I work for and I just don't see how anyone could work for anyone that they don't respect and think highly of. He knows that our personalities clash, he knows that we have issues between the two of us, there is just one difference and that is how differently we both handle situations. I don't lash out or have a temper like he does. I don't get upset over the littlest and most minor things. 

I would be screwed if I was let go today because I consistently need money coming in. Pure and simple. And because I am self contracted right now, I don't have E.I. to fall back on, whereas with a regular employer I would.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> I just don't see how anyone could work for anyone that they don't respect and think highly of..


Because THIS...



Hoofpic said:


> I would be screwed if I was let go today because I consistently need money coming in. Pure and simple. And because I am self contracted right now, I don't have E.I. to fall back on, whereas with a regular employer I would.


In the current tight labour market, working is better than not working.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Just because you think the interview went well doesn't mean they're going to offer the job to you. I'm sure there are other qualified candidates, and you're just one of many they've interviewed.


As far as you 'knowing' that the team and boss are great and respectful, you absolutely _don't_ know that from one interview. It's like dating; everyone puts their best foot forward at first. If you should get the job, what happens when you muck up and get reprimanded? Suddenly the boss is a horrible asshat, and you hate him. This is a pattern with you, which is why you don't seem to keep a job more than one or two years at the most.


If you're actually offered the position, put in your two weeks notice and work it if your employer requires it. It's respectful, regardless of how you perceive your current supervisor. You give two weeks notice for your own career benefit, not theirs.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Did you not think the same thing about your current boss? You met this person once, and you KNOW you have "awesome communication and respect for each other"? What if HE were "faking it"? If you are not willing to step up and report your current boss for wage violations, then you are actually the one with the problem, not him. What he is doing is not right, but is nobody wants to report it, then he will continue. Why would you be SO screwed if he let you go today? Sounds like you are employable enough.


I will say one thing that I don't think anyone knows. The day that I first met my current boss (we went for lunch), I immediately saw red flags in just his hot headed temperament. My first impression of him was that I knew he had an ego, but i just didn't know that it's as bad as it is. I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but something about him just seemed off. Something about our meeting just seemed suspicious. 

But I am not one to judge someone without knowing them so I decided to put it aside and not think too much of it. Well unfortunately I was right all along, that red flag on that very first meet with him turned out to be true. But what makes me the most upset about all of this is that I had 4 job offers on the table at that time and I unfortunately made the wrong choice and went for this guy.

It all unfolded as time went on, everything from him throwing verbal power trips on me at his house, to accusing me of stealing stuff from his fridge, to throwing insults at me, it's all just built up over the entire time working for him. He knows that I don't like him because I avoid conversations with him when I can and I will always start up random topics with him to chit chat just to fill dead moments between him and I (if say I have to stop by his house to pick up or drop off something). I do this not because I want to talk to him but to fill in time until I get out the door. I am very good at doing this. I am basically faking it and have been for the past year (if not longer).

I've just learned to adapt to his personality. Sure the very first time of him freaking out on me really threw me off and rattled my cage, but ever since then I have refused to let him get to me. Because that's why people like him do it in the first place, they need an ego boost and when they see that they got a negative reaction from that person they feel great. But when they see that nothing phases them, they aren't happy. 

And you know what? He's even said it to the entire team with me there that I'm a "cool guy" and that he still can't believe how calm I am at all times and that I just don't get phased by what he says or verbal temperaments he sents to me. Well....that is true but I've also just adapted (by coming up with my own plan) to working for a personality like him. This past year has made me a much stronger person than before. I just refuse to let him get to me because I know that I am the better person, the more mature one and the better professional.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> But I am not one to judge someone without knowing them .


That is not how you come across on the board you know, you maybe quite different in real life, but you appear to be for ever making judgements about people and their motives based on little or no evidence.

Having said that, if your gut feel was so bad about this boss, why did you work for him at all, and why didn't you look for something sooner?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> If you want to stay where you are....I JUST got an email from Square.....you know, the card reader company.....and they now have AUTOMATIC payroll processing!!!! It actually says that! "Never miss a payroll deadline again....."!!! Deja Vu. You should sign him up!


He won't even listen to my suggestion, let alone even consider it. 

According to the other girl, we are moving to another payroll method. I don't know what or when, or who knows this could be another lie from him (that's why I'm taking it with a grain of salt), but the past month since he's handing my payroll to the girl, she's been paying me through Paypal (she bills my invoice to his Visa).

This past pay period, guess what? It was so late I eventually had to run the payment myself! I have his Visa numbers for purchasing tech. After nagging for days, I got the go ahead to just pay my own self. I've never worked a job where I paid my own invoice with the owners account. But I got paid and that's all that matters.

But I am getting nailed with 3% Paypal fees each time and the company won't eat the 3% fee so instead I have to take it! Me having to take a $40 loss off each pay period because the owner doesn't want to get nailed with Paypal fees is absolutely ridiculous! So if that is the case, then (since I obviously don't work for free and especially not for this guy), I will just work 3 hours less every two weeks. Done.

But when I look at it, what's more important to me every 2 weeks, $1600 or $40 and it's a no brainer. I will take the $80-100 a month loss for the time being. I am not happy about it but whatever. I'm just at that stage right now where I'm just like whatever.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> This past pay period, guess what? It was so late I eventually had to run the payment myself! I have his Visa numbers for purchasing tech. After nagging for days, I got the go ahead to just pay my own self. I've never worked a job where I paid my own invoice with the owners account. But I got paid and that's all that matters.


So are you an employee or a contract worker? If you are submitting and invoice for payment, your EI isn't paid are you an employee? What does your contact say, and what does it say about notice period? By that you are bound, BUT if you are a contact worker, the terms of giving notice are different I think, you can just terminate the contract.....again, what does the paperwork say?


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

You had a job at a RE firm with a boss you admired and went out of his way to help you.
You were bored to tears with that job, and spent much 'on the clock' time concentrating on what you loved - horses. 

Next job, also RE, the boss impressed you as a great man to work for. Within a week you couldn't stand the job, or the boss (having many bad things to say about him). And you quit.

Now, you have a job you love and works in with two of your passions. Photography and Horses.

You are an Independent Contractor (or Canadian equivalent). You may have to pay a greater share of taxes; however, only on your net income (rather than gross income). So you get to take Deductions and pay taxes on a reduced amount.

I am as undecisive as they come. In this case though I will make up my mind as to my opinion on your situation. Stay where you are.

Then again, I think you have already made up your mind, and are just looking for support.



Hoofpic said:


> ...The payroll wasn't the main reason for me leaving, ...


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

anndankev said:


> You had a job at a RE firm with a boss you admired and went out of his way to help you.
> You were bored to tears with that job, and spent much 'on the clock' time concentrating on what you loved - horses.
> 
> Next job, also RE, the boss impressed you as a great man to work for. Within a week you couldn't stand the job, or the boss (having many bad things to say about him). And you quit.
> ...


I definitely have not made up my mind just yet. I was thinking about this at the barn earlier and something tells me that I shouldnt leave. Why? Because for a few reasons.

I just feel that there is a lot of potential on the table that will be given up on. There is a lot of potential in this job.

(Aside from the owner) the group here is just such a great group. I get along with them so well, they see my skills and talents, they know what I am capable of and they much appreciate what skills I bring to the team. It really is a very good close group of good people. Over the past year and a half I have gotten to know them and their families quite well and I would hate to lose these connections.

There are also many great qualities about the job. Like you said, Im doing what I love - video and photo and it all carries over to my Equestrian path that Im launching. What I learn in one area I can always apply to the other. I believe that this is one key benefit that I cannot take for granted. I never wake up in the mornings feelig miserable not wanting to do my job, instead I feel very fortunate for having a job that cross ties with my hobbies and Equestrian career.

Aside from just a couple members of the team, nobody even knows about my Equestrian career on the side. But they do know how assertive I am when it comes to my learning and the fact that I am always trying to move forward in terms of gaining new skills and I think they admire it. Personally, the owner doesnt need to know because its none of his business. As far as he knows, I dont work for anyone else. If he asks I will tell him but I dont need to go out of my way to tell him abiyt me starting up Equestrian services on the side.

Then you factor in the schedule and the fact I have great flexibility. I can go to the barns in mid weekday afternoons if I wanted and I didnt have any other arrangements. As Ive come to realize over the past year and a half, working from home is a great luxury that pays off especially in the winter.

I will be honest, everyone on the team loves my attitude and its one reason why (even with all the people that we hired and tried out to be my assistant or partner), the owner has always wanted to keep me. 

We just fired my partner (who was with us for 6 weeks) because he was controlling, had a bad attitude and he had no faith in me and started talking trash about me in the company saying how Im not qualified to do any of the tasks with him etc.

The management team didnt like it, they asked me if I had any concerns and if I wanted them to confront this guy about any of the things that he was bad mouthing me about) and I simply said no.

This guy had alot more experience than I do when it comes to video, the team saw it, reconized what he brought to the team that I lacked but at the end they kept me because they didnt like this guys attitude and felt he wasnt a good fit with the team. This just goes to show you that no matter how good you are doing your job, if you have a bad attitude then no one will want to keep you.

So they obviously kept me for a reason, because they feel that I am a good fit in the team.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm so confused... they fired your partner for talking trash about you ? But you're completely disrespectful to your boss online and in real life and you have a job still? I am utterly confused


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Rainaisabelle said:


> I'm so confused... they fired your partner for talking trash about you ? But you're completely disrespectful to your boss online and in real life and you have a job still? I am utterly confused


Make room on the confused couch will you


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Rainaisabelle said:


> I'm so confused... they fired your partner for talking trash about you ? But you're completely disrespectful to your boss online and in real life and you have a job still? I am utterly confused


I am telling the truth about my boss. Big difference. The other guy also had a bad attitude, he was rude. Im not like that


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> Rainaisabelle said:
> 
> 
> > I'm so confused... they fired your partner for talking trash about you ? But you're completely disrespectful to your boss online and in real life and you have a job still? I am utterly confused
> ...



Not really a big difference only difference is he probably hasn't seen what you said about him online.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

18 miles is a long drive?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> So are you an employee or a contract worker? If you are submitting and invoice for payment, your EI isn't paid are you an employee? What does your contact say, and what does it say about notice period? By that you are bound, BUT if you are a contact worker, the terms of giving notice are different I think, you can just terminate the contract.....again, what does the paperwork say?


I am a contractor. There is nothing stated about me giving two weeks notice or notice of any kind but when/if I do leave, I will give notice as it's the right thing to do.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> That is not how you come across on the board you know, you maybe quite different in real life, but you appear to be for ever making judgements about people and their motives based on little or no evidence.
> 
> Having said that, if your gut feel was so bad about this boss, why did you work for him at all, and why didn't you look for something sooner?


Because I give people the benefit of the doubt. Even with the odd feelings from him the first time we met, it was the work itself and the loads of potential that I saw and eventually led me to accepting his offer.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

anndankev said:


> You had a job at a RE firm with a boss you admired and went out of his way to help you.
> You were bored to tears with that job, and spent much 'on the clock' time concentrating on what you loved - horses.
> 
> Next job, also RE, the boss impressed you as a great man to work for. Within a week you couldn't stand the job, or the boss (having many bad things to say about him). And you quit.
> ...


My previous job was a different situation. I had a really great boss (who is so different from my current one), and perhaps I took my opportunity working for him for granted. He is a great person and an amazing person to learn from. Don't get me wrong, soon after leaving my stay with him, there were many times where I regret making the mistakes that I made, the decisions that I made and wished I had another chance to work for him. He was a great ambassador for many Real Estate agents in the company.

The first year went great, amazing in fact, I got a big raise (the biggest raise in a single annual review by any staff member in the company in over 20 years). That's how impressed he was by me. I just remember going into the 2015 holiday season on a complete high and never felt any better. But immediately after the new year going into 2016 was when it all went downhill. I felt it right from day one back from Christmas break, I just didn't have it in me to be there. I just wasn't feeling it, I had no motivation, no desire to want to do my job there anymore. I don't know what it was, but I was not the same person. This dragged on through the entire month of January, and I knew that I had to be around horses again, this is all I wanted, to be around horses again. 

So I got in touch with local barns and started volunteering doing barn chores and mucking stalls in exchange for lessons. I still remember, the very first day showing up at the barn 7am on a cold winter Saturday morning to start with morning feed, almost brought tears of joy to my eyes because I was so happy to be given the opportunity to be around horses again. I immediately knew that this was what I wanted to do. This was where my heart was at. I know this sounds lame but I couldn't even sleep the night before I was that excited.

I went on to spending 12 hour days there and another 2 hours on the road driving there and back starting at 6am in the morning every Saturday and Sunday. I would do barn chores and muck stalls and paddocks for 9-10 hours then have a lesson for an hour and a half. 

Then when that didn't work out due to the barn not having liability insurance for volunteers, I got in touch with independent trainers to take horsemanship lessons from them and learn basic safety protocol when around horses. Remember, at this time I still knew absolutely nothing about horses. I had just learned how to properly lead a horse. I have yet to read a horse book and I thought horsemanship was called "horse workmanship".

After some time of this, I wanted to take on more and more and more so I eventually started volunteering at a huge barn where I was doing barn chores in exchange for being able to brush and handle one of the girls 7 ponies (2 being studs). Again, still very green at this stage, I was just learning what "hh" meant and how horses communicate.

Then next thing you know a month later I bought Fly and then things at work really went downhill in terms of me being able to keep my focus there mentally and having motivation wanting to do my job. Literally every single day I was at work, I just wanted to be at the barn. Everyday when the clock hit 3:15pm I would rush out the door to change into my barn clothes and head straight tot he barn to feed all the horses. My boss saw this and knew that horses to me were more important than working for him.

My final 10 months there was not good, it went down hill really fast. The boss could visually sense and see my decline in my performance and felt that my heart was no longer with the company. I could sense it that something bad was potentially about to happen, I just didn't expect it to happen 4 days before Christmas of 2015. 

But coming up to the second week of December, I had a really rotten feeling that something was up because my boss hadn't mentioned anything to me about my annual review. That final week I was there, I could totally sense that things between him and I just weren't right. He was distant from me, isolated and unsocial. I knew something was up.

Now trust me, I learned a ton of things from my employment with that company and some of the most valuable experiences in my life that I have adjusted from, corrected and applied to my current job to get better. I can't describe in words just how valuable of a well taught lesson that was for me, it really opened up my eyes in a lot of ways.

In terms of my work ethic, I am not the same person as I was 2 years ago. I will not make that same mistake twice.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> I am a contractor. There is nothing stated about me giving two weeks notice or notice of any kind but when/if I do leave, I will give notice as it's the right thing to do.


If you are not an employee there are different rules that apply, so what you need to consider what you are contracted to give, rather than what you think is right.



> Because I give people the benefit of the doubt


Mmmm, if you say so, I see no evidence of that..


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

What I hear you saying is that you're a cool guy and your boss is difficult, but you have a really cool job. You want to know if you should quit that job and take a less cool job with people who _might or might not also be difficult, you can't possibly really know yet_ or stay where you are and tolerate the abuse in exchange for being able to do really cool stuff . . . . so I guess it boils down to what's more important to you. What sounds like a better deal- having a super cool job and dealing wiith a difficult boss, or having a much less cool job and _possibly_ being free from abuse?


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> Because I give people the benefit of the doubt. Even with the odd feelings from him the first time we met, it was the work itself and the loads of potential that I saw and eventually led me to accepting his offer.


If my memory serves me correctly, you were also unemployed, which always makes a job offer easily accepted. Been there done that and have a few thread bear t-shirts to prove it.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> If you are not an employee there are different rules that apply, so what you need to consider what you are contracted to give, rather than what you think is right..


What do you mean?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

newtrailriders said:


> What I hear you saying is that you're a cool guy and your boss is a difficult but you have a really cool job. You want to know if you should quit that job and take a less cool job with people who _might or might not also be difficult, you can't possibly really know yet_ or stay where you are and tolerate the abuse in exchange for being able to do really cool stuff . . . . so I guess it boils down to what's more important to you. What sounds like a better deal- having a super cool job and dealing wiith a difficult boss, or having a much less cool job and _possibly_ being free from abuse?


That's pretty much what it all comes down to.

In terms of the work itself, something tells me what I will regret switching to the new job if I get offered it. But also something tells me that I need to do it for the security blanket factor alone.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I wouldn't take a lesser paying job, at a longer distance & boring work just because someone seemed nice at an interview.

I just got a new boss who is a dip stick but I'm not quitting my job over it. The few moments I see the boss it doesn't kill me to smile & say hello.

You said yourself that in a boring job you spent more time daydreaming than working. Why set yourself up for having that happen again?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> What do you mean?


Exactly what I said, you are a contractor, not an employee, so a different set of guidelines apply. Do you have a contact of any sort? If not then you can just stop supplying services whenever you choose.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Hoofpic said:


> That's pretty much what it all comes down to.
> 
> In terms of the work itself, something tells me what I will regret switching to the new job if I get offered it. But also something tells me that I need to do it for the security blanket factor alone.


You won't be happy if you end up wiith a boring job AND a difficult boss, and it is a given that your boss is at their best during the interview. Can you look for another fun, exciting job instead? Or a job working for someone you KNOW is not difficult?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

The number of jobs available is dwindling, fun jobs are a bonus not a given. Work is what you do to give you cash to survive, and have fun, not hating it is a bonus, loving what you do is priceless.

Thing is from HP's work history, freely shared here, having issues with bosses is kind of a reoccurring issue.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Golden Horse said:


> The number of jobs available is dwindling, fun jobs are a bonus not a given. Work is what you do to give you cash to survive, and have fun, not hating it is a bonus, loving what you do is priceless.
> 
> Thing is from HP's work history, freely shared here, having issues with bosses is kind of a reoccurring issue.


If that's the case, then all your bosses will seem like a-holes to you, Golden Horse, and you might as well just take that as a given and choose the work that you want to do the most. Loving what you do IS priceless and, IMO, loving what you do and living with a very small budget is preferable to doing something you hate and making more $ - but I'm sure my priorities are different than other people's priorities.

You better just learn how to deal with "a-holes." The secret to that is gluing your mouth shut and doing a whole lot of listening LOL


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

newtrailriders said:


> If that's the case, then all your bosses will seem like a-holes to you, Golden Horse, and you might as well just take that as a given and choose the work that you want to do the most. Loving what you do IS priceless and, IMO, loving what you do and living with a very small budget is preferable to doing something you hate and making more $ - but I'm sure my priorities are different than other people's priorities.
> 
> You better just learn how to deal with "a-holes." The secret to that is gluing your mouth shut and doing a whole lot of listening LOL


Not sure if you are giving ME or HP advice there, but if you are giving it to me you are so far off the mark as to be in a different country. I have had great bosses, and some real poor ones. I learned from both and it made me a great manager.

The behaviour, attitude to work etc of this poster, as demonstrated by many many posts, over a few years leads me to believe that he may be a little challenging as an employee.

Again, of everyone has 'fun' jobs, many people just do the best they can, with what is available, work is work......you go, do your best, make the best of it, get paid and live your life with the money you get.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

Golden Horse said:


> Not sure if you are giving ME or HP advice there, but if you are giving it to me you are so far off the mark as to be in a different country. I have had great bosses, and some real poor ones. I learned from both and it made me a great manager.
> 
> The behaviour, attitude to work etc of this poster, as demonstrated by many many posts, over a few years leads me to believe that he may be a little challenging as an employee.
> 
> Again, of everyone has 'fun' jobs, many people just do the best they can, with what is available, work is work......you go, do your best, make the best of it, get paid and live your life with the money you get.


Oh - oops! Got names mixed up, sorry about that.

IDK. We all have a different idea of what is fun, and I think what we find fun is what we're most likely cut out to do well. For the first time in my entire life, I'm having fun at my job. I had to take a pay cut to do it - but I'm working as a nurse manager at a nursing home. Most people would not have any fun whatsoever doing this, but it is just my cup of tea and I enjoy it more than anythiing I've ever done. I regret all the years I spent holding back on my goal of getting into management, as it turns out I'm excellent at it BECAUSE it's what I enjoy.

I'd rather be good at my job and have fun at it, plus when you're good at something and having fun at it you're much more likely to continue to go up in that direction. Now I realize I'd probably make a great Director of Nursinig, and that appears to be the direction I will go - maybe the original poster will find something higher up and better paying in the areas that he finds enjoyable.

We only live once and how do you want to spend your life - just trudging through day after day, miserable, making ends meet or meeting each day with excitement and joy? JMHO

I, too, found every manager I ever had to be difficult. Turns out I just had authority issues. I don't like being told what to do, especially by certain types of people. Now that I've learned to keep my mouth shut, my authority issues no longer get in the way of me doing a good job.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

newtrailriders said:


> I, too, found every manager I ever had to be difficult. Turns out I just had authority issues. I don't like being told what to do, especially by certain types of people. Now that I've learned to keep my mouth shut, my authority issues no longer get in the way of me doing a good job.


:mrgreen::mrgreen: LOL

You know the worst boss I ever had? the one I had for the last 10 years, and that was ME.......not a good combination...


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

natisha said:


> I wouldn't take a lesser paying job, at a longer distance & boring work just because someone seemed nice at an interview.
> 
> I just got a new boss who is a dip stick but I'm not quitting my job over it. The few moments I see the boss it doesn't kill me to smile & say hello.
> 
> You said yourself that in a boring job you spent more time daydreaming than working. Why set yourself up for having that happen again?


Good point thanks. I think it's a big risk that I take if I do go with the new job (if I get offered it), but I just think the security blanket is very appealing to me. 

If I had to see my current boss 5 days a week I would have left long ago. Sometimes I see him twice a week, other times once in a few weeks, so it varies. 

Because we have a team of about 8 or 9 now, I use the company of others to my benefit. When I am with him and other members of our team, I socialize with other members to keep me away from him. I also use other members as distractions if needed. If other members want to talk to him and keep him chatting, then I am all for it! The more the better! 

When in group situations, I almost never talk to him and if I have to, I keep it to as few words as possible and I am polite about it. Otherwise I keep my distance and chit chat with the others who I get along with great. 

This past Thursday afternoon, I had to meet up with him and one of the other girls in the company at a college campus for an hour to scout shooting locations. He happened to bring his son with him too as he is in town for a few more days. So the girl chatting with the boss and I chatted with his son for most of the time. I didn't have to say a single word to him, it was great! The more that others talk to him to keep him distracted and away from me, the better.


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

Anytime you meet the employees of a new company they are going to be nice. It is expected.
Every job has potential. Do you think they would say otherwise.
Are you running to a new job or running away from an old one ?
I think the latter.

Best of luck to you.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Regardless of how amazing a job is, if there were problems being paid on time, I would leave.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> I am telling the truth about my boss. Big difference. The other guy also had a bad attitude, he was rude. Im not like that


It's entirely probable that the other guy was simply telling the truth as he saw it. Just because you don't like what is being said doesn't mean the other person has a bad attitude. I have several coworkers who are extremely blunt and don't hold back what they think of you. At first, it seemed like they were rude and had bad attitudes, but as I got to know them, I realized that wasn't necessarily the case.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Hoofpic is a Contractor and presents Invoices for payment. The man that pays the invoices could better be regarded as a 'Client' than a 'Boss'.

I'm wondering what 'security' the 'new job' would provide, and suspect it is entirely based on EI (Unemployment Benefits). If so then I feel that 'security' is very overrated. EI is temporary and very short term, and not really enough to cover living expenses.

A better option could be to start a savings fund, maybe start with depositing the $2 per hour difference in rates. And work on building a client base, increasing the number of frequent customers and regular venues.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Are the other members of the "team" contractors, or on payroll? Do they have problems being paid, especially since the company seems to be growing? It seems to me that word would get around about not getting paid, and he would have a hard time adding new employees....


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> Thanks but what if they said that it's a deal breaker? (They never said this but you never know).
> 
> My boss now could get upset and just say "okay lets make today or this week your last week"


You are counting your chickens before they hatch. You have not yet been offered the new job ... and you may not. 

You asked how to not burn bridges IF you are offered the new job. I suggested give your current employer two weeks, as that is standard. 

Yes, your boss could dismiss you immediately. But that's burning bridges on his end, and not yours. 

If it would be a deal breaker for the new job for you to not start immediately, well, I'm not sure that I would want to work somewhere that doesn't care about your current employer and industry standard of 2 weeks notice. 

.....But do what you want I guess.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Just an update: I will be staying where I am at for my reasons stated earlier. That is not to say that I wont leave in the future but I feel I need to give my current job a bit more time.

In summary, there is just too much good about my current job that I am taking a huge risk to give up. Too much potential and benefit on the table.

Should I email the ladies who interviewed me to notify them? What should I say my reason is? I will most likely look like Im an indecisive person.

Thank you to everyone for all the advice and helping me make my decision.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> Should I email the ladies who interviewed me to notify them? What should I say my reason is? I will most likely look like Im an indecisive person.
> 
> Thank you to everyone for all the advice and helping me make my decision.


Errr, NO....

IF they contact you to offer you the job, then you just politely say, "thank you for you offer, but I ma not able now to take up the position" or words to that affect.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> Should I email the ladies who interviewed me to notify them? What should I say my reason is? I will most likely look like Im an indecisive person.


Why would you email them?

Again, you are ASSUMING you have the "cat in the bag" and have the job. That's not the case. You have not been offered the job. Come back down to Earth.

Do not contact them. If they do happen to call you and offer you the job, just thank them for the opportunity but politely decline. You don't have to give them an explanation.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Okay update: I just got an email from them asking for me to come in for a second interview with the regional director. What should I say? I don't want to burn bridges or give them the impression that I am wasting their time.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

beau159 said:


> Why would you email them?
> 
> Again, you are ASSUMING you have the "cat in the bag" and have the job. That's not the case. You have not been offered the job. Come back down to Earth.
> 
> Do not contact them. If they do happen to call you and offer you the job, just thank them for the opportunity but politely decline. You don't have to give them an explanation.


But shouldn't I give at least a general reason on why I am no longer wanting the position? They might think it's them to blame or that I didn't get a good rapport with them in the interview (which is obviously not the case).


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

You either go for the second interview because you have repeatly said you can't stand your boss and don't get paid on a regular basis( this would be a huge deal breaker for me, personally and I would have been gone) or you decide you can live with it and cope and say that "Thank you, but I have decided that a change in my life is not good this time." 

I, personally,would go for the second interview and feel out the job and drive a bit more. But it is your decision. You know what you can live with. A boss that doesn't trust me and me not trusting would not work for me at this time in my life. Though I have had quite a few soul sucking jobs where you put your face on at the door and do your job for a paycheck.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Okay I have my email written up notifying them but I can't seem to hit send. I am really hesistant. Why? Because I know that this is a huge risk that I am taking by staying on my current job and possibly another blown opportunity by me from not going elsewhere.

I do feel that with my current job, I need to give my current situation a bit more time to see how things pan out. Like I said, there is too many positives about what I am currently doing to give up right now. Perhaps down the road, 3 months, 6 months, but right now it feels too premature.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Dehda01 said:


> You either go for the second interview because you have repeatly said you can't stand your boss and don't get paid on a regular basis( this would be a huge deal breaker for me, personally and I would have been gone) or you decide you can live with it and cope and say that "Thank you, but I have decided that a change in my life is not good this time."
> 
> I, personally,would go for the second interview and feel out the job and drive a bit more. But it is your decision. You know what you can live with. A boss that doesn't trust me and me not trusting would not work for me at this time in my life. Though I have had quite a few soul sucking jobs where you put your face on at the door and do your job for a paycheck.


I want to go for the second interview (to get a better feel and vibe and I feel it's in my best interest to do so), but what if I get offered the job after and I don't decide to take it? That would look SO BAD. Two interviews and you would think that candidate is very serious about wanting that position. Right now, I am still 60/40 towards staying where I am. I am worried that I will **** someone off at this new place.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Having done hiring in the past, I never felt like it was a waste of my time if someone declined the job offer or second interview. Practice makes perfect and interviewing that person gave me a chance to practice. I never took it personally. I just moved on to the next candidate. I had one guy turn down a job offer because it wasn't enough money. When he told me that, I sympathized with him and said that I wished I could offer him more, but that I completely understood and respected his decision. Then I hung up and called the next candidate on my list, never giving the other guy another thought.

It wouldn't "look bad" if you turned down the job after the second interview. You tell them "I thought I was ready to make a change in my career, but it just doesn't feel right at the moment. Sorry and I hope you find the ideal candidate fir the position." Guaranteed they will move on to the next applicant and not give you a second thought. 

I do not mean to sound mean, here, but I really think you think a bit much of yourself if you think for one second that the people who interviewed you are agonizing over you turning down the job. Chances are they have a dozen more people just as qualified as you are (or more so) that they have on a list to call for second interviews. Once you turned them down, they likely forgot about you. The only person who thinks this is a big deal is you.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I will say one thing. I love the team that I am currently working with. Everyone is great, I get along with them all really well, on the same page, no hiccups for our communication. It's just too bad the owner is nothing like anyone else in the company. But I will give him extremely high props for having a very good eye for finding good people. That is a unique skill to have. 

With that being said, personally I still believe that everyone in the company deserves far better (but that's just my opinion).


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Totally agree with what Drafty said. I've interviewed dozens of people. Some who I wish we could hire turn us down. If you're polite, professional, and to the point, no bridges are burned.

If you know you really wouldn't accept the job, I actually disagree that it would be weird to withdraw your name from consideration before going to the second interview. All you have to say is "While I appreciate the opportunity, I'd like to withdraw my name from consideration at this time. Please feel free to contact me with similar opportunities in the future."


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

I think interviews are a two way street. For you to decide if you would like the place and if they would like to invite you to work for them. You can learn more about the job, ask questions, and they learn more about you. Then you BOTH make decisions. I think you should go take the interview. Nothing is set in stone.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Having done hiring in the past, I never felt like it was a waste of my time if someone declined the job offer or second interview. Practice makes perfect and interviewing that person gave me a chance to practice. I never took it personally. I just moved on to the next candidate. I had one guy turn down a job offer because it wasn't enough money. When he told me that, I sympathized with him and said that I wished I could offer him more, but that I completely understood and respected his decision. Then I hung up and called the next candidate on my list, never giving the other guy another thought.
> 
> It wouldn't "look bad" if you turned down the job after the second interview. You tell them "I thought I was ready to make a change in my career, but it just doesn't feel right at the moment. Sorry and I hope you find the ideal candidate fir the position." Guaranteed they will move on to the next applicant and not give you a second thought.
> 
> I do not mean to sound mean, here, but I really think you think a bit much of yourself if you think for one second that the people who interviewed you are agonizing over you turning down the job. Chances are they have a dozen more people just as qualified as you are (or more so) that they have on a list to call for second interviews. Once you turned them down, they likely forgot about you. The only person who thinks this is a big deal is you.


Thanks. 

Boy am I ever glad that I did not hit send to that email. I deleted it and instead accepted my second interview with the Regional Director for tomorrow morning. 

Right now I am still convinced to stay with my current employer, but I just can't pass up or risk blowing another opportunity that is already on my plate. What I really need to key in on tomorrow in my interview with the Regional Director is the job duties itself, tasks on hand etc. I know on a general basis what I would be doing but I need to dig deeper. Because ultimately, I need to ask myself if I am willing to go back to an office job. Am I willing to go from doing what I love to accepting a much less fun and intriguing one?

I'm so relieved to hear that I will not upset anyone if I do get offered this position but do not accept it. If they offer it to me on the spot (chances are unlikely but you never know), I will have to say that I need a day or two or think about my decision. 

What I don't want is, I don't want to go to this second interview, have everything go really well, get offered the position say the day after (because we know that they will be making their final decision this week sometime), and then I decline it. I would feel so bad for wasting their time (even though that was not my intention at all).


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm on the hiring end of things.

One time, we had a new employee hired but when she went to give her boss her two weeks, he gave her a big raise and got her to stay. So after she accepted the job with us... then she declined it. She had a fantastic personality so I was sad we didn't get her, but no bridges burned whatsoever. If she was a candidate down the road, I would not hold it against her. 

I think it comes down to you figuring out your life and figuring out what you want to do. Go to the second interview and see what happens. ..... again you may NOT be offered the position so you may be worrying for nothing!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

beau159 said:


> I'm on the hiring end of things.
> 
> One time, we had a new employee hired but when she went to give her boss her two weeks, he gave her a big raise and got her to stay. So after she accepted the job with us... then she declined it. She had a fantastic personality so I was sad we didn't get her, but no bridges burned whatsoever. If she was a candidate down the road, I would not hold it against her.
> 
> I think it comes down to you figuring out your life and figuring out what you want to do. Go to the second interview and see what happens. ..... again you may NOT be offered the position so you may be worrying for nothing!


Thanks for the reassurance. I have a feeling if I leave my current position that there will be hostile feelings towards me. Just a gut feeling. I love the team that I am currently working with, everyone (but one) is amazing people!!! I don't want to lose this!


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

But you don't get paid on time and regularly fight with your boss. Sounds horrible. You are complaining about it constantly.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Do you mean you work with people(now) who would be hostile if you left? Those just do not sound like healthy people to me.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> Thanks for the reassurance. I have a feeling if I leave my current position that there will be hostile feelings towards me. Just a gut feeling. I love the team that I am currently working with, everyone (but one) is amazing people!!! I don't want to lose this!


STOP with the 'gut feelings'

IF you decide to leave WHY would people be hostile, most of us have changed jobs over the years, I don't ever remember being worried about hostility in former work mates. If they are all amazing people then they will want the best for you..

You say you have developed a better attitude to work over the last while, now it seems you need to develop a better attitude to your workmates and boss..


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Yea. There is no gut feeling here. If you are having to deal with a toxic work environment, it is time to go. You have every right to be treated with dignity and respect, and you should be treating your peers with the same. Whether it is family, friends or work, if you are being mistreated you should LEAVE. This new job might not be your permanent career and could be rather temporary... but it won't be abuse.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Dehda01 said:


> But you don't get paid on time and regularly fight with your boss. Sounds horrible. You are complaining about it constantly.


Well over the past 2 pays it's gotten better but until we go to a new permanent system (other than Paypal), I will be getting dinged with the 2.99% Paypal fees out of my own pocket, which adds up to $80-100cdn a month. Not happy.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Dehda01 said:


> But you don't get paid on time and regularly fight with your boss. Sounds horrible. You are complaining about it constantly.


Our personalities clash that's for sure, no doubt about that. I've just gotten used to covering it up that's all but at the end of the day there is still and always will be a black hole between us. Like I said, I've been faking it for the past 8 or 9 months or so. The guy won't change, he is who he is. If he has serious anger and temperament issues now, then I would imagine he was like this when he was younger, and the chances of him changing are slim to none.

If I stay, the ONLY reason why that would be is for the work itself, the potential our group has and of course the group itself. There are more people joining the company over the next few months and beyond and the more the better. 

One of the best moves the company has made over the past year was hiring a P.R. lady who is now my main correspondent in my work. A lot of my tasks and duties I report back to her now and then she reports to the owner. But it doesn't mean that I still don't have to communicate with the owner, it's just a lot less now (thank heavens). This lady is great, her and I have a very solid working relationship, she's a great listener and most importantly she appreciates everything that I do for the company and treats me with respect. 

I mean even just little stuff like having to stop by the owners home to drop off or pick up stuff. It's just awkward and hostile. Again, I don't show it and he knows it. If there is one single thing that he has quickly learned about me ever since working for him it's that he knows that I have extremely well posed self composure, something that he is completely incapable of showing. I've seen it, everyone else in the company has seen it. His lack of professionalism and self composure at times is embarrassing. 

So I just go about my business, do what I have to do and use random talk about random stuff to fill in gaps. I know what he likes and what I like and I will talk about that and keep talking to get him talking to fill in dead space, I do this whenever I have to and for as long as I have to, then I leave. I will not let a guy like him rattle my cage and get me stressed out. He ain't worth the stress! I answer any questions he may have but I don't ask him anything, period because he simply isn't a good listener and he doesn't want questions being asked, period.

Ever since that one time back in February where I was at his home, he freaked out and accused me of being stealing stuff from his fridge and he yelled at me telling me not to ask questions, well I took that with full context because ever since then I have completely changed the way I work and communicate with him and I no longer ask him any questions. I do my own research, I take the longer route if I have to find out the answer, I will ask others in the company instead. My #1 rule for me working for him is the less I talk to him the better off I am.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Hoofpic said:


> Well over the past 2 pays it's gotten better but until we go to a new permanent system (other than Paypal), I will be getting dinged with the 2.99% Paypal fees out of my own pocket, which adds up to $80-100cdn a month. Not happy.


Sooo....charge those to him on the PP invoice. Or just deduct them, but I would charge them to him. You are the contractor.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

To me it comes down to this, at the new place would you be an employee or a contractor? Having been a contractor and an employee both, I am here to tell you, given the choice I would choose employee EVERY.SINGLE.TIME!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

6gun Kid said:


> To me it comes down to this, at the new place would you be an employee or a contractor? Having been a contractor and an employee both, I am here to tell you, given the choice I would choose employee EVRY.SINGLE.TIME!


As long as he is not a job jumper and from what he has said over the last few threads - he's a job jumper.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

greentree said:


> Sooo....charge those to him on the PP invoice. Or just deduct them, but I would charge them to him. You are the contractor.


I added the Paypal 2.99% fees to an invoice a month ago and his assistant/Communications Director in the company told me to not do it again and that we will be moving to a new system soon. 

She is well aware that Paypal has 2.99% fees if invoices are paid a specific way (by the payee choosing the "for goods and services" option), but if you select the "Friends and family" option, the person invoicing does NOT get nailed with fees. I told her this like 6 weeks ago and told her to select the "friends and family" option but she simply will not do it. I don't know why.

So nobody in the company knows this but I just now work 3 hours less per pay cheque. I'm not letting them screw me over like this. Do they really believe that I am willing to work 2.5 hours every two weeks for free? This is something so simple and completely unavoidable and the owner should be stepping in to address the issue but he frankly doesn't give a crap. Anything to do with payroll and he wants nothing to do with it because he's "too busy", "has too many other things to deal with"....it's excuse after excuse with this guy. So in the end it's really just hurting the company and the owner. 

Same goes for all those times when I would have to meet up with the owner to grab something from him and he wasn't even home because he simply "forgot". He thinks that this time doesn't count as my work time. Ummm of course it does! Sorry but if I am having to make multiple trips back to your place because you forget about our appointment, that time I spend driving to and from your place is just deducted off my next work day. He can say sorry thinking that I am spending my "Free" time doing this but it's not, it's hurting his pocket book and just wasting my work hours when they could be spent doing other things needed to be done.

So with that being said, if they were smart they would move and set up a new system ASAP.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Hoofpic said:


> I added the Paypal 2.99% fees to an invoice a month ago and his assistant/Communications Director in the company told me to not do it again and that we will be moving to a new system soon.
> 
> She is well aware that Paypal has 2.99% fees if invoices are paid a specific way (by the payee choosing the "for goods and services" option), but if you select the "Friends and family" option, the person invoicing does NOT get nailed with fees. I told her this like 6 weeks ago and told her to select the "friends and family" option but she simply will not do it. I don't know why.


It is a business and would be dishonest for them to choose the friends and family option. YOU are the goods and services. (The support you provide)


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

farmpony84 said:


> It is a business and would be dishonest for them to choose the friends and family option. YOU are the goods and services. (The support you provide)


I can understand that but if the owner is not willing to put in the effort to get a proper payroll system set up and has to use Paypal for the time being, then he has to eat the 2.99% Paypal fee. How would everyone in the company feel if they were working for someone and got deducted 2.99% for no reason? I don't even know how this is even a question for him. It just shows his lack of respect that he has towards me. This is just another occurrence that is ultimately driving me away from the company and is it worth it for him so that he can save $80-100 a month in his pocket? It's not like the guy is struggling financially, he is very wealthy.

I've been told that we will have a new system put into place soon. Ever since that time of being lied to my face about payroll being run and taken care of by his girlfriend, I take everything with a grain of salt. Unless something actually happens and I witness it with my own eyes, I don't believe any of it. He talks big but simply doesn't follow through. Let's just say I stay with the company and a year later we still don't have a system put into place. That would be upwards of $1200cdn that I've taken a hit in my own pocket book due to Paypal fees and that is nothing something that I am willing to accept.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Add it to your contract. The reason you are a contractor, not hourly, is because they cannot track your hours.....you do the job in ONE hour? Super. Takes 60 in that week? You made up for it only taking an hour last week. 

It is a deduction as a cost of doing business, anyway.....


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I just got back from my second interview, it went great!

First I will say that I am sure glad that I went to it. 

Second, I am in an even tougher decision than I was 2 hours ago. The girls will be contacting me tomorrow sometime as the decision will be made late today. 

Here are some notes that I would like to add.

- the pay is $1-2/hour less than I would like. But seeing what I make now and seeing how you will make more upfront if you are a contractor (Cause you have to do your own taxes), it actually works out to be about the same. Right now I am making $3/hour more than what this new position offers me, but I am contracted and I have to do my own taxes. Plus I don't get EI. So once I factor in me doing my own taxes, I think it works out to be about the same. 

- Remember because I am contracted right now, I don't get paid holidays, I don't get paid statutory holdays (I haven't taken a vacation since I started), I don't get sick days or any benefits either. All of those paid statutory holidays throughout the year really add up money wise. I am surprised. But (see below) this is something I have to be willing to give up for a full year.

- The biggest difference is that I am working from home right now and the new job is 30km from me (but I would take a detour to avoid traffic so it makes it 35km or so. I have to be willing to work for this wage for the next year (I explain more below). It's a sacrifice that I am willing to make because I know that you have to prove yourself and work your way up in any company, on any new job.

- it's far, there is no way around it. 35mins each way with no traffic and 50 with. Winters, I would expect an hour each way. I have to really ask myself if I am willing to go back to a job with long commute times? Even though it's all highway and it will be nothing like in city or downtown traffic. That is 1.5 hours a day that I will be spending on my commute to and from work, 7.5 hours a week, 30 hours a month. It adds up and it will be even more in the winter. There is absolutely no way I would have even gone to the first interview if it was 45mins each way in traffic. But it's still a trek.

- Standard office hours. Say goodbye to me being able to see the horses on a nice summer or spring afternoon. My flexibility in when I can get to the barn during the week will be drastically cut back. This is not a big issue to me since I did work an office job prior to the one I'm at now, but obviously it's a bit of a downfall.

- Not to sound overly confident but I walked out confident that I got the position. The only thing is, I need to make a decision really quick here and if I do not decide to take this job, I need a good reason as to why without making them upset.

- I got a lot more in depth details as to what I would be doing and I have no issues with what I would be doing. Obviously it won't be as exciting as what I am doing now (there is no video), but again...it's a sacrifice that I would have to make. And trust me, I've worked far less interesting and exciting jobs so this one isn't anywhere near the bottom.

- I would be on probation for 1 year, meaning my first review and opportunity for a raise doesn't come until one year. I would be paid as an employee (EI, C.P.P gets deducted off my pay cheques), but I wouldn't be considered as a permanent staff for the company. But definitely not self contracted (I double checked this).

After a year is where they decide if I am going to stay on or they will move on with someone else. If I stay on, then I get a raise and full benefits. And their benefit package is really nice, perhaps the nicest of all employers in my entire lifetime. This includes sick days, paid vacations, vacations, etc.

- I still got a very good vibe from the ladies there (who also interviewed me last Friday), and I got to meet the person who is now in the position and will be leaving at the end of the month. There is a very good vibe there, I was 10 mins early so they offered me a tea and we got to chat for a bit.

- Am I willing to go back to an office job? This one (because where my desk is located) there will be no slacking off at all. Once I am at work, (unless I am on lunch), my phone gets put away, personal emails and personal matters get put away.

- this is a company that treats their staff and everyone in the company extremely well. They were voted in the top 30 companies in the world to work for for the past 4 years since 2013. I could tell right from when I walked in last Friday that this company takes respect very seriously.

- what if my equine career takes off? I won't be able to shoot or book appointments during weekday afternoons. 

Ah I don't know what to do! I need to make a decision today so I am prepared on what to say when I receive the call tomorrow.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> - Not to sound overly confident but I walked out confident that I got the position. The only thing is, I need to make a decision really quick here and if I do not decide to take this job, I need a good reason as to why without making them upset.


LOL, I'm guessing you were not the only one interviewed, I would also guess that others think it went well. IF and IF you get offered the job, and you don;t want it, you don't have to worry about upsetting them, just say you are unable to take it.




Hoofpic said:


> - what if my equine career takes off? I won't be able to shoot or book appointments during weekday afternoons.


you DON'T have an equine career, nor do you have a photographic career, you have a hobby, and all evidence suggests that is all it will be for sometime. 

Make decisions on what is best for you, no one here can make that decision, because frankly a lot of us are confused why you put up with someone who doesn't pay when they should. But then if you change jobs I give it a month before you are complaining about your boss, the job, your fellow workers.....


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Here is what I think it basically comes down to (excluding the pay factor because it works out to be the same), except long term the new position offers much more potential because of reviews, raises, benefits, etc.. Like I said, I don't see raises in my current position and if there ever will be, it would be years from now (if we are even still around).

Looking long term:

1) Am I willing to go back to a job with a long commute? My previous employer (after we moved offices) was a job with a long commute and I absolutely hated it. I dreaded it everyday, I was driving a lot. BUT it was in-city traffic, so big difference. The new job is only 1.5km to the highway and allows me to hop on that which goes right to home and to the barn.

2) Am I willing to stop doing what I love (at least on a full time basis unless my equine career really picks up), and go back to an office job? 
Answer: It would be really unfortunate to lose this and not have that cross factor of being able to apply my work skills and knowledge to my equine career and vice versa), but I would be willing to make this sacrifice if needed.

3) Do I see the work itself and company itself holding my interest long term? Yes. I am not the same person that I was 2.5 (or even 2) years ago where I made several costly mistakes with my previous employer that eventually led to my termination. I am not the same person. I have a new found level of dedication and to my work ethic that I didn't have before. My previous employer taught me an awful lot and some of the most valuable lessons in my life. And you can't bet that Fly (and horses in general) is a huge part of what drives me to work above and beyond everyday and get better as both an employer but as a person. It's amazing what having someone (or something) so attached to you and meaningful to you in your life does to your motivation and overall drive.

4) Am I willing to sacrifice my current job and future untapped potential for an office job? Because we all know that I have a lot of great benefits to my current job - the cross platform learning with my equine career being one. It would advance me further ahead much quicker than doing an office job during the work week.

My current employer is a start up, so it may or may not even be around in a couple years (or even year) from now. The owner could out of nowhere just call it quits and say that the operation is shut down and I would be screwed.

The new job is a company that has been around since 1949 and offers long term security that my current employer just can't offer (and potentially never will be able to).


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> LOL, I'm guessing you were not the only one interviewed, I would also guess that others think it went well. IF and IF you get offered the job, and you don;t want it, you don't have to worry about upsetting them, just say you are unable to take it.


According to the Regional Director, it's down to 3 candidates with me being one of them.

I'm not being overly confident but I am still certain that I got the position. I have many skills and qualities that they are looking for and they would be valuable assets to the company.

Here is one thing that I need to mention, both in the interview last Friday and the one day I was asked why I am wanting to move on from my current employer. I was honest, straight up with them and told them that there is simply just too many bad habits and lack there of qualities from the owner of the company and therefore I don't have any respect for him. I didn't bring anything up about our personalities clashing (because I do believe a great worker who can adapt to different personalities is a very valuable one), but just that the owner lacks communication, had qualities that I don't like and that a month ago I have hit my peak in terms of what I can tolerate and told myself that I am going to move on.

You see because of this, if say they call me tomorrow and offer me the position and I do not accept and say that I am not ready to move on or that I have made a decision to stay where I am, they will be confused! Because they know that I don't respect my current boss and that I have made a decision that I will be moving on, so why would I all of a sudden change my mind and stay? And it will even perhaps make me look bad as a worker seeing the fact that I am willing to continue working for someone that I don't respect. 

First I need to make a choice between the two. This is the toughest part. 



> you DON'T have an equine career, nor do you have a photographic career, you have a hobby, and all evidence suggests that is all it will be for sometime.
> 
> Make decisions on what is best for you, no one here can make that decision, because frankly a lot of us are confused why you put up with someone who doesn't pay when they should. But then if you change jobs I give it a month before you are complaining about your boss, the job, your fellow workers.....


No I do not have an equine career but you have to admit that doing the same stuff (just in a different industry) in my current full time job is extremely valuable. What I learn in my full time job now I am able to apply to my equine stuff and vice versa.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

30 kilometers is 18 miles. How is that far?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

If you even think that you may want to slack off now & then then don't take the job. Your freedom will be limited, time wise. If you get bored sitting at a desk this may not be the job for you.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

natisha said:


> If you even think that you may want to slack off now & then then don't take the job. Your freedom will be limited, time wise. If you get bored sitting at a desk this may not be the job for you.


I am not the same person that I was 2 or 2.5 years ago. I don't expect to slack off at the new job. I have worked in an environment like this before (where you basically sit next to your manager) and there is no slacking off. I had no issues with it.

Let me also mention that when I've slacked off in previous jobs, it's not because I wanted to, it's because I've lost my drive and interest in the work I do. I get bored. My previous employer was that case but I was also going through my soaring interest for horses and that completely just took over my mind.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> You see because of this, if say they call me tomorrow and offer me the position and I do not accept and say that I am not ready to move on or that I have made a decision to stay where I am, they will be confused! Because they know that I don't respect my current boss and that I have made a decision that I will be moving on, so why would I all of a sudden change my mind and stay? And it will even perhaps make me look bad as a worker seeing the fact that I am willing to continue working for someone that I don't respect.
> 
> First I need to make a choice between the two. This is the toughest part.


You know, who cares, take the job, and worry about the people at your old place hating you

Don't take the job, and worry about if the new place is confused

I have some news for you, YOU ARE JUST NOT THAT IMPORTANT

I have interviewed and employed 100's of people. I have dismissed a few, accepted resignation notices from many more, and you know what, I never lost a days sleep over any of it. Decide what is best for you, because I can promise you that neither company will worry one single second whatever you decide.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Dehda01 said:


> Yea. There is no gut feeling here. If you are having to deal with a toxic work environment, it is time to go. You have every right to be treated with dignity and respect, and you should be treating your peers with the same. Whether it is family, friends or work, if you are being mistreated you should LEAVE. This new job might not be your permanent career and could be rather temporary... but it won't be abuse.


I treat all my current peers (and yes that even includes the owner) with respect, I always have. I've never disrespected them or given them attitude, ever. I don't show my emotions in the workplace. Even all the times when the owner intentionally threw me under the bus in front of the team, I never showed any negative reaction.

At my previous employer, I had one of the girls literally yell at me in front of my space while I was at my desk working, and yet I wasn't phased. I was calm and collected and didn't raise my voice, didn't get upset. S

The group that I am currently working with is great, I have no issues with any of them and the fact that we are bringing more people on is an encouraging sign for me to want to stay. It's just too bad that the owner is someone that I will never have respect for. He's already done too much damage to make our working relationship repairable. I am a forgiving person and I give people chances, but over the past 19 months, there have just been so many red flags that I can't even list them all out. He is simply a very poor communicator, an absolutely atrocious organizer and has a massive ego. He's just fake, there is no other way to describe him. I never would have thought in my life that I would be working for someone who will see and read your texts, emails, voice mails and purposely ignore them. 

I've said this before and I will say it again. For as long as I am working for him, he will never get the most out of me, he will never see my max potential in terms of what I am capable of in my position. Our personalities and work ethics, organizational skills are just too opposite and he can't keep up with me. Even he knows that he's a horrible organizer and has admitted this to me many times. I can work with people with poor organization but there is a limit and he is the worst of the worst that I've ever worked for. 

But I don't care, as long as he's paying me, I do my job. But he will never get a full representation of me because him and I are just too different. I don't necessarily believe that I am in a good fit in the company (I am with the team but not the owner), but I have skills and assets that are extremely valuable to the company because no one in the company has.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden, I have tolerated all this time of not being paid on time because the working economy here hasn't been great the past 2 years (and still isn't), in fact it might be even worse this year than last year. So I have basically stuck it out and continued on until another opportunity came along. Do I like having to chase him all the time for my money? Of course not and it was just 6 weeks ago where I was literally this close to threatening to stop working until I got paid. But after a lot of thinking and posting on here, I decided against it, it was just too risky.

But 6 weeks ago or whatever when I had to boldly call out the owner demanding my pay that was 11 days late was my tipping point. I've had it with this simple payroll issue and him not attending to my matters like a proper and respectful employer should be doing. "Sorry I was out of town".,,"I was in a meeting"..."I had another matter to attend to"...."I will pay you tomorrow".... I'm sick of this guy's excuses! Obviously him paying me on time is not seen as a priority to him and that to me is a result of lack of respect from him. That is total disrespect.

But ever since that time of me calling him out and making him look like a complete idiot to everyone in the company, payroll has been better (still had one late pay since then), but he has handed the task off to his assistant and I don't even deal with him anymore for my money. So that has been a very encouraging sign and a huge relief, the fact that there has been improvement since then and I know longer have to deal with him.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> I treat all my current peers (and yes that even includes the owner) with respect, I always have. I've never disrespected them or given them attitude, ever. I don't show my emotions in the workplace. Even all the times when the owner intentionally threw me under the bus in front of the team, I never showed any negative reaction.


Your current peers are the people at your level, you cannot include the owner as a peer. As to showing no negative reactions, that can come over as disinterested, sometimes employers like to see people standing up for themselves. Again from an outsiders point of view, although you keep saying that you are a great reader of people, you actually aren't....




Hoofpic said:


> I've said this before and I will say it again. For as long as I am working for him, he will never get the most out of me, he will never see my max potential in terms of what I am capable of in my position. Our personalities and work ethics, organizational skills are just too opposite and he can't keep up with me. Even he knows that he's a horrible organizer and has admitted this to me many times. I can work with people with poor organization but there is a limit and he is the worst of the worst that I've ever worked for.
> 
> But I don't care, as long as he's paying me, I do my job. But he will never get a full representation of me because him and I are just too different. I don't necessarily believe that I am in a good fit in the company, but I have skills and assets that are extremely valuable to the company because no one in the company has.


So leave, or stay and keep b1tching about the place, but it sounds a lot like you are cheating on him, jeez man, how do you expect to be respected and rewarded when you aren't even trying? 

As to being an asset and having unique skills, well that is usually identified and rewarded.....but then you are admitting to not giving your all, so what do you expect in return.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Hoofpic said:


> Let me also mention that when I've slacked off in previous jobs, it's not because I wanted to, it's because I've lost my drive and interest in the work I do. I get bored. My previous employer was that case but I was also going through my soaring interest for horses and that completely just took over my mind.


 
How is any of this the employer's fault? You've absolutely admitted that you're lazy and goof off when you get bored. We all get bored with our jobs from time to time, but you're STEALING from your employer when you deliberately slack off. 

It amazes me how you don't seem to think anything is your fault. Sure, I slacked off but I was BORED, so it's not like I WANTED to do it. Um yes, you did. Regardless of the job, slacking off is a deliberate decision to steal time and money from your employer.

I'd never hire someone like you. You're catty, talk crap behind your employer's back, steal time/money from them when you get 'bored', and have an ego the size of Manhattan without any proof that you're actually as good as you claim. If your photography skills are any indication, you're NOT as good as you believe yourself to be. You don't take direction or suggestions, even when you ask for them, and seem to think what YOU want is more important than what a client or employer wants and expects.

You give all indications of being a nightmare employee, which is why I suspect you've been 'encouraged' more than once to move on.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> Your current peers are the people at your level, you cannot include the owner as a peer. As to showing no negative reactions, that can come over as disinterested, sometimes employers like to see people standing up for themselves. Again from an outsiders point of view, although you keep saying that you are a great reader of people, you actually aren't....


Well if he gets mad at me, I am not going to get mad back, that's just not who I am.




> So leave, or stay and keep b1tching about the place, but it sounds a lot like you are cheating on him, jeez man, how do you expect to be respected and rewarded when you aren't even trying?
> 
> As to being an asset and having unique skills, well that is usually identified and rewarded.....but then you are admitting to not giving your all, so what do you expect in return.


What makes you think that I am not trying on my current job? I have done many things to go well out of my way for the owner and he simply doesn't appreciate what I do for him.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Speed Racer said:


> How is any of this the employer's fault? You've absolutely admitted that you're lazy and goof off when you get bored. We all get bored with our jobs from time to time, but you're STEALING from your employer when you deliberately slack off.
> 
> It amazes me how you don't seem to think anything is your fault. Sure, I slacked off but I was BORED, so it's not like I WANTED to do it. Um yes, you did. Regardless of the job, slacking off is a deliberately decision to steal time and money from your employer.
> 
> ...


I've gotten bored at previous jobs, not the one now. The one now is entirely different and not comparable to my previous one. I never said that it wasn't my fault for slacking off at my previous job, I know it was. But I also know what led me to doing it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> What makes you think that I am not trying on my current job? I have done many things to go well out of my way for the owner and he simply doesn't appreciate what I do for him.


Let's just start with this, and the fact that you simply don't understand how work is supposed to go.



> I've said this before and I will say it again. For as long as I am working for him, he will never get the most out of me, he will never see my max potential in terms of what I am capable of in my position.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> Let's just start with this, and the fact that you simply don't understand how work is supposed to go.


What I meant about that quote was in terms of what I am capable of handling, not my work ethic. For example, say I could handle 10 projects at once and he only gives me one. It doesn't mean that he won't get the best effort on that one project, it's just that he could get a lot more out of me in terms of what I am capable of handling but he can't keep up.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> What I meant about that quote was in terms of what I am capable of handling, not my work ethic. For example, say I could handle 10 projects at once and he only gives me one. It doesn't mean that he won't get the best effort on that one project, it's just that he could get a lot more out of me in terms of what I am capable of handling but he can't keep up.


I repeat you don't understand work and how it is supposed to go...but good luck


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Golden Horse said:


> ... if you change jobs I give it a month before you are complaining ...



An entire month?





Hoofpic said:


> ... What makes you think that I am not trying on my current job?


Well the following quotes do it for me.:



Hoofpic said:


> I treat all my current peers (and yes that even includes the owner) with respect, I always have. *I've never disrespected them or given them attitude, ever. I don't show my emotions in the workplace*...
> ...the owner is someone that I will never have respect for. ...
> ...For as long as I am working for him, he will never get the most out of me,_ he will never see my max potential_ in terms of what I am capable of ... he is the worst of the worst that I've ever worked for.
> ...he will _never get a full representation of me_ ...





> ...But ever since that time of *me calling him out and making him look like a complete idiot to everyone in the company* ...


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> I repeat you don't understand work and how it is supposed to go...but good luck


You aren't understanding what I'm trying to say.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> What I meant about that quote was in terms of what I am capable of handling, not my work ethic. For example, say I could handle 10 projects at once and he only gives me one. It doesn't mean that he won't get the best effort on that one project, it's just that he could get a lot more out of me in terms of what I am capable of handling but he can't keep up.


HEAD DESK

You simply don't understand do you......that isn't how work goes....and tells me so much more about you as an employee and not him as a boss...I've been both boss and employee, and I think you would be lucky to survive a 3 month probation period anywhere I have worked. 

You may well be a nice guy, I don't know, but in terms of being an employee everything I have read says you will be a nightmare. Now how is that attitude going to play out in this hobby you are trying to make into a business? Badly I think, because anyone who hires you is basically your boss, and you won't give them your best work, for whatever reason.

You say you get bored, for ages all we heard about was Fly, now nothing, are you still riding, or was sharing things about riding getting boring, and it is just WAY more fun to have posts like these which make you feel important, because they get a huge response, even though a lot of it it is less than positive?

how is Fly?


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> HEAD DESK
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have had this thought for very long time.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

I am also interested in how Fly is doing? Seems like you've lost interest in her as nothing has been mentioned or even hinted about her. You have completely contradicted yourself throughout this post and to be honest it is just getting embarrassing.

I wish you all the best in your future endeavors.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

18 miles? That's it? I put at minimum 50 miles a day in for my job. Takes me an hour to get there. It takes longer to get home since I have to drive through Cincinnati. This is what happens when there is not many choices in the job market. I'd LOVE only 18 miles.

I know you've tried to paint yourself as a driven person, but you and I would clash with this. Heavily. I'm not seeing a bad boss. I'm seeing a bad employee that can't take initiative to go above and beyond. THAT is how work is. THAT is what makes you a stellar employee. I'm extremely valuable to my lab, but I'm well aware I could be replaced. To ensure your job, you should be doing what you can to prove you're a good employee. You've flat out admitted when you're bored, you slack. And you blame it on losing interest in what you're doing. EVERYONE gets tired of what they do on occasion. The important thing is, is they still put everything they have into it. Period. Lately I've been isolating 192 samples a day, by hand. That's two plates worth. I had 14 plates. Because that doesn't get tedious? A good employee works the same whether burnt out or not. It's what makes them good.

I have no advice on what you should do. You seem to think very highly of yourself and that these companies should essentially be fighting over you. But that isn't the reality. Do what you wish, but I fear you'll never be happy no matter what you end up doing. You'll make it through the honeymoon period, but then go right back to complaining.

Sorry if this came off harsh, but it really irritates me when someone blames their job on why do stuff that isn't allowed at their job. And you need a bit of a reality check before you break your arm patting yourself on the back.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Tazzie said:


> 18 miles? That's it?



No kidding. I wish _my_ commute was only 18 miles. Mine is 38 miles one way, so I'm driving almost 80 miles a day and two hours of time out of my life, 5 days a week. 18 miles would be a cakewalk!


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> No kidding. I wish _my_ commute was only 18 miles. Mine is 38 miles one way, so I'm driving almost 80 miles a day and two hours of time out of my life, 5 days a week. 18 miles would be a cakewalk!


I'd lost track of how many miles it takes me to get to work. Here you go @Hoofpic. #perspective










Taken from me sitting at my work desk right now to home. The length of time makes me laugh because Cincinnati right now would be a joke to get through. I've done this drive for over two years at this point, 5 days a week.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

It takes me an hour to get to work right now. I get up at a quarter to four so I can handle all the animals and then shower. I drop my son off at the bus stop because it's 3/4s of a mile from the house. By the time I get to work at seven I've already been up for over three hours.

This is my close to home job. The one I had before was a half hour to the train station, an hour on the train, two stops on the metro, and a 2-3 block walk.

If an 18 mile commute is a major concern for you then I don't really know how you are planning to be an equine photographer. What exactly is your client radius going to be if you are concerned about an 18 mile commute to a desk job.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> If an 18 mile commute is a major concern for you then I don't really know how you are planning to be an equine photographer. What exactly is your client radius going to be if you are concerned about an 18 mile commute to a desk job.


This is a very good point. The show photographer for our big show mid October is north of me in Ohio. She drives to the Kentucky Horse Park for it. It's an hour and fifteen minutes for me to get there, and I'm roughly 30 minutes south of Cincinnati (she's north of it by a decent bit). I imagine she's spending minimum of two hours in the car for one show. She's also the photographer for our show next weekend, outside of Louisville, that is two hours from my house.

If 18 miles is too far for your daily job, I cringe of what your radius will be for clients. People won't flock to you, and people won't bring their animals to you. You have to go to them.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> The one I had before was a half hour to the train station, an hour on the train, two stops on the metro, and a 2-3 block walk.


I used to do a similar commute, farmpony. I'd drive 1/2 hour to the bus commuter lot, ride 1 1/2 hours on the bus, then take the metro to a stop about 3 blocks from my office. I don't miss those days.


I'm also up about 3 hours before I actually get into work, since I have all the critters to feed/water and get myself ready for my commute. So I can totally relate!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

A friend of mine has a 90-minute commute both ways. He leaves for work at 5:00 am for morning practice, then teaches a day of school, then has either afternoon practice or a game, then a long drive home. If he's home by 10 pm it's a short day. 

My 'commute' is four blocks. I consider myself very fortunate to have a short distance to a job I like. But in previous jobs, I've driven over an hour. 

A talked to a couple the other day who bought a small farm in North Carolina. She commutes four hours north to work. He commutes two hours south. Every day. 

Quit griping and realize that a job is a necessity, and most people don't like their job some days (or most days). Deal with it. Get up, drive however far you need to, do your job to the best of your ability and that's life. Part of life is not being able to go ride horses on nice days unless you're independently wealthy and don't have to work, or luck into a job that allows it. Find a job that pays the bills, suck it up, and do it. Woe is me and pity parties because you're underappreciated or feel left out of the group won't cut it. Then find a job where that's not the case, but you know what? If you continually end up in jobs where you aren't happy, consider that it's you and not the job that is the problem. Part of life is making the best of things. You go to work to bring home a paycheck and help your employer run their business. That's it. Not to make friends or be popular or what have you. If that happens, great, but don't bet on it. 

Do not 'hang your hat' on your equine/photography career. That is a long ways off. It's a hobby. You need to do a lot more legwork to make that a career, and you need money to spend to make that a career. So that means you work 1, 2, or more jobs in the meantime. Maybe you leave for work at 6 am, get off work at 4 pm, and go to another job until 10 pm to give you the income to better your photography. Then you work every weekend at a show or barn. Such is life. If you want it, then do it, but don't think it's going to be handed to you on a silver platter and you can shuffle along throwing in the towel and success will magically come your way.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

You might want to read this @Hoofpic, seems so apt for you to think about










By the way how is Fly?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

I am on edge right now. Got a call back asking if I would like the position and that the girl that I would be working with has talked to the team and made an exception to make my review and opportunity to get a raise (and become a f/t member with the company) to 3 months (down from one year.

Before receiving the phone call, I was 90% decided on my decision.

After and during the phone I am back down to 50%. 

They obviously would like to bring in the new person (to start training) immediately and they have offered me more time to think about it because they told me that they really want me onboard.. Because I don't want to keep them waiting, I have said that I just need a few hours and will get back to them by 2pm today.

I will be honest - long term, this new position is much more positive because there is just so much more security there and now with me knowing that I have potential advancement after 3 months (down from 1 year), I have to go with the new position. The lady at the new position has talked me out of (what was) my current decision prior to our phone call. 

I can't stress it enough. I see a perfect fit with this new company, I mean, on a communication level, it's just so much better, positive, inspiring, encouraging and optimistic than my current situation.

I'm stressed out.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> After and during the phone I am back down to 50%.
> 
> .


Then toss a coin, heads you stay, tails you go...

How is Fly?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

A big reason why I am heavily leaning towards the new position is because I need the long term security blanket (as in E.I, being on a payroll, being an employee). Being a self contractor (and in my situation with a startup company that may or may not be around in a year or even 6 months) is just too risky.

I look back to the company's shareholder's meeting back in the summer and when the admin girl left shortly after the number one thing that she told me was to start looking for another job. There were a bunch of reasons for what she said was said during the meeting. But the biggest one was that she said that the owner of the company only has enough money for the company until September and if he doesn't get extra people to buy his business model, then the company will be in trouble.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> I can't stress it enough. I see a perfect fit with this new company, I mean, on a communication level, it's just so much better, positive, inspiring, encouraging and optimistic than my current situation.
> 
> I look back to the company's shareholder's meeting back in the summer and when the admin girl left shortly after the number one thing that she told me was to start looking for another job. There were a bunch of reasons for what she said was said during the meeting. But the biggest one was that she said that the owner of the company only has enough money for the company until September and if he doesn't get extra people to buy his business model, then the company will be in trouble.


Then go. Or flip a coin as was also suggested. You're an adult and this is your life. You can make decisions for yourself.

And agree with @Golden Horse. How is Fly? I haven't seen a single mention of her lately.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

It I obvious you want a vote since you can't decide for yourself to take a job you say is a perfect fit. There for, I am starting the vote. Keep count, now. Everyone, post your vote, "take it" or "leave it"


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Take it.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

LOL, sorry not playing @Whinnie....you know why?

Thinking about it, the one question that Hoofpic never asked a horse board, was any advice on buying a horse, he just ran out and bought the first horse he saw, no matter that she was totally unsuitable for him. That decision if he had cared enough to ask, would of meant him buying a horse suitable for his size and skill level, instead of Fly, how is Fly BTW? The combined knowledge of horse boards would of at least been a little helpful for that decision.

This one, who the heck knows, I don't know what is best for him...my advice is still toss a coin.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Whinnie said:


> Take it.


Leave it


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Tazzie said:


> Then go. Or flip a coin as was also suggested. You're an adult and this is your life. You can make decisions for yourself.
> 
> And agree with @Golden Horse. How is Fly? I haven't seen a single mention of her lately.


A decision of this magnitude can't be decided with a flip of a coin because the risk is too high.

I just got back in touch with the admin girl (who I haven't talked to in 2 months since she left) because her and I have always got along great and she was the one who attended the big shareholder's meeting back in the May and was giving me warnings to start looking for another job. 

I have to leave. I may not 100% want to and yes there is still a lot of untapped potential in my current employment, but I look long term and I just can't take the chance in getting burned by this guy and then left stranded. With his financial situation and the direction of the company from a financial and shareholders standpoint, it's just too high risk with the current employer. Yes I could be going to new heights in the company, but the company could also not be around in 6 months. I will forever have this black hole in the centre of my mind for as long as I work for this guy. There is no way to hide it, put it away or get rid of it. 

And you know what? Fly is definitely a huge factor in this when I look at the long term picture. I need the security for her as well and the current position just doesn't have it. 

There is just too many red flags about my current situation and how the owner let go and ripped off the admin girl when he let her go. So many. She told me everything. I don't want to be another victim and that's what the admin girl told, to leave as it should be a no brainer. 

I have a perfect new opportunity to hop on a new train with a respectable employer and I need to jump on it.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Do what you want. 
Take the chance. If you're unsure, I agree...flip a coin...or roll a dice.

My commute is about 40-45mins...no, it's not always easy. The traffic can be horrific at times, especially if there's an accident. 18 miles isn't horrible at all...

But is it worth it? Very much so. I'd make a decision fast, because if not...they will find another person!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

PoptartShop said:


> Do what you want.
> Take the chance. If you're unsure, I agree...flip a coin...or roll a dice.
> 
> My commute is about 40-45mins...no, it's not always easy. The traffic can be horrific at times, especially if there's an accident. 18 miles isn't horrible at all...
> ...


Ultimately it comes down to two things - 1) the person who I am working for and who that person is as a person and 2) the company itself from it's history, structure, long term objectives, etc. Decision made.

I am going to miss no longer being able to have this kind of flexibility in my schedule and visits to the barn in the mid afternoon), and of course working from home but it's a sacrifice that I have to make.

This is honestly one of the most difficult decisions I've made in my life.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Huge sigh of relief and I can finally let go of my stress bunnies but it feels great because I have no doubt that I have make the right decision. The best decision for not only myself but Fly. 

I look at who will be my new boss at the new position and the bosses above it (who all interviewed me) and compared them directly to my current one and there is just NO comparison what so ever. 

Yes I will be forfeiting untapped opportunity with my current employer but ultimately who you work for and the company itself far outweighs it in terms of importance. The fact that the new employer has been a top 30 employer in the world for the past 4 years is something that I cannot take for granted.

Decision is 100% concrete right now. Today is a new path and a new start for employment. Definitely one of the most difficult decisions that I've had to make in my life. Fly and my passion for horses was definitely a big factor into my decision.
But I am excited!


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

And Fly is doing great! She was a little antsy yesterday as the temperatures really dropped and it was really windy (but then again all the horses at the barn were on edge and had energy yesterday).


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

Wait! Did they actually offer you the job? I don't really understand the entire back and forth if they have not actually offered you a position? 

To be honest Hoofpic - If you really told them that you were not loyal to your current boss and did not respect him - it would make them rethink offering you a position. It sounds like you work in a fairly specific field - and there may have been people in that room that may know or may know OF your current boss. And throwing him under the bus in an interview is not a good idea. The standard reply to any question like that would be that you were looking to broaden your skills in your chosen field and their company seemed to offer the greatest opportunities. Never EVER make it sound like it is personal, never EVER throw your current employer or company under the bus. Those are tried and true rules for answering interview questions.

If I read correctly - today is Day 2 after your second interview, did they give you any ideas of how long it would take to make their final decision?


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

carshon said:


> Wait! Did they actually offer you the job? I don't really understand the entire back and forth if they have not actually offered you a position?
> 
> To be honest Hoofpic - If you really told them that you were not loyal to your current boss and did not respect him - it would make them rethink offering you a position. It sounds like you work in a fairly specific field - and there may have been people in that room that may know or may know OF your current boss. And throwing him under the bus in an interview is not a good idea. The standard reply to any question like that would be that you were looking to broaden your skills in your chosen field and their company seemed to offer the greatest opportunities. Never EVER make it sound like it is personal, never EVER throw your current employer or company under the bus. Those are tried and true rules for answering interview questions.
> 
> If I read correctly - today is Day 2 after your second interview, did they give you any ideas of how long it would take to make their final decision?


I told them in my first interview last Friday that the owner of the company has habits and qualities (and lack thereof) that I can't and will not tolerate anymore. I've hit my peak in terms of what I can handle and have decided to move on. Yes I said that I cannot work for someone that I do not respect and that is true. They completely understood.

Of course making that phone call to the girl who used to be our admin really helped. How she left and how the boss handled the situation, the cause of it and other factors really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I won't risk being screwed over by him down the line.

Today is day 1 after my second interview. I have accepted the new position and just submitted my two weeks resignation letter to my current boss. Just waiting to hear back from him.

And this is a completely different industry.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

This is so confusing. No wonder you seem to have employment troubles....you never seem to answer a question directly. 

You have maintained that your current boss was a millionaire, and we said he was probably having financial trouble, and you said, no, he has plenty of money. Now , he is in financial trouble?

I suppose if you accepted the position, that they must have offered it. 

Good luck to ALL parties!!!


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> LOL, sorry not playing @*Whinnie*....you know why?
> 
> Thinking about it, the one question that Hoofpic never asked a horse board, was any advice on buying a horse, he just ran out and bought the first horse he saw, no matter that she was totally unsuitable for him. That decision if he had cared enough to ask, would of meant him buying a horse suitable for his size and skill level, instead of Fly, how is Fly BTW? The combined knowledge of horse boards would of at least been a little helpful for that decision.
> 
> This one, who the heck knows, I don't know what is best for him...my advice is still toss a coin.





Wellll....that's kind of my point .Hoofpic can't make a decision and keeps asking over and over, saying how he is agonizing. True, only HE can make that decision, but if he wants to base it on everyone's opinion, it is easier for him to just tally votes rather than everyone giving him their own reason for taking or not taking the job. It just sets him spinning with more indecision.


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## Tazzie (Nov 8, 2011)

Hoofpic said:


> A decision of this magnitude can't be decided with a flip of a coin because the risk is too high.


If it was a decision of such magnitude, WHY are you asking a bunch of strangers for their opinion? For their help in this decision? This would be something to discuss maybe with family and close friends. As was pointed out, asking for horse shopping advice would have been appropriate. Asking which silly browband to purchase would be appropriate. Which major life decision should you choice? Yeah, not such a good idea with strangers! You are essentially flipping a coin by asking us our opinion. And as your track record usually shows, you NEVER listen to our advice or do the exact opposite of it anyway!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Whinnie said:


> Wellll....that's kind of my point .Hoofpic can't make a decision and keeps asking over and over, saying how he is agonizing. True, only HE can make that decision, but if he wants to base it on everyone's opinion, it is easier for him to just tally votes rather than everyone giving him their own reason for taking or not taking the job. It just sets him spinning with more indecision.


Yeah I was agreeing with you, as @Tazzie says WHY is he asking a bunch of internet strangers something so important...LOL, it is random if he will take any helpful, or even unhelpful advice, it's the internet how does he know which is which....


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Speed Racer said:


> No kidding. I wish _my_ commute was only 18 miles. Mine is 38 miles one way, so I'm driving almost 80 miles a day and two hours of time out of my life, 5 days a week. 18 miles would be a cakewalk!


My son, who is 23, travels 2.5 hours ONE WAY. He is looking for a house closer, but for now, that is what he travels. Think of it, five hours a day on the road.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Dear Hoofpic,

I am concerned that you may have 'jumped the gun' so to speak.

As the last I recall in your posts you had had your second interview where there were 3 candidates for them to decide between.

Then I read where you had called them accepting the position, as well as giving 2 week notice to your old position.

So, the missing link here is that nowhere did I see where the new firm had contacted you with the actual offering of the job.


Please update here, I feel as though I've been left 'up in the air' on this thread. 

Thanks,
Ann


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Post #108 @anndankev, easy to miss in the crowd.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> ... Got a call back asking if I would like the position ...
> 
> ... they told me that they really want me onboard.. Because I don't want to keep them waiting, I have said that I just need a few hours and will get back to them by 2pm today.
> ...


Thanks @*Gold*enHorse. I guess I can 'move on' now. LOL


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Hoofpic said:


> And Fly is doing great! She was a little antsy yesterday as the temperatures really dropped and it was really windy (but then again all the horses at the barn were on edge and had energy yesterday).


It really feels like you are as bored with the reality of horse ownership as you get with work......when was the last time you said what you were doing with her, shared anything about her, all your energy is in your new hobby of picture taking, and that is fine, as long as she is looked after.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Went off and fixed lunch, while doing so realized I had not sent my well wishes to Hoofpic.

Congratulations on getting the new job, the job market is very tough nowdays and I commend you for getting on with a huge corporation. (Assuming that because it is in the top 30 in the world.).

I wish you well, and hope you are happy and satisfied with your work and career there.

Ann


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

anndankev said:


> Went off and fixed lunch, while doing so realized I had not sent my well wishes to Hoofpic.
> 
> Congratulations on getting the new job, the job market is very tough nowdays and I commend you for getting on with a huge corporation. (Assuming that because it is in the top 30 in the world.).
> 
> ...


Thank you Ann for the wonderful comments.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> It really feels like you are as bored with the reality of horse ownership as you get with work......when was the last time you said what you were doing with her, shared anything about her, all your energy is in your new hobby of picture taking, and that is fine, as long as she is looked after.


Yes you are right I am bored with horse ownership because I do not share my journey anymore on HF. I don't share my journey anymore on HF for a reason and I am better off this way. My journal was fun while it lasted but things change over time.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

Hoofpic said:


> *Yes you are right I am bored with horse ownership because I do not share my journey anymore on HF*. I don't share my journey anymore on HF for a reason and I am better off this way. My journal was fun while it lasted but things change over time.


Hoping this was sarcasm otherwise it means you are bored because you aren't getting attention?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

​


Hoofpic said:


> Yes you are right I am bored with horse ownership because I do not share my journey anymore on HF. I don't share my journey anymore on HF for a reason and I am better off this way. My journal was fun while it lasted but things change over time.


Yeah I thought that was the case!


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

What? Poor Fly, or I hope you were joking.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

It is hard to give 100% attention for things that are intense such as developing a photography career when you are distracted by owning and caring for a horse in addition to being employed by a large corporation. That requires time and money, of course. Selling Fly would give you the time (for photo shoots) and money (for equipment) that you need to advance in your career. You have done good basic work on her so you should get a good price, and your attention will not be so divided.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Whinnie said:


> It is hard to give 100% attention for things that are intense such as developing a photography career when you are distracted by owning and caring for a horse in addition to being employed by a large corporation. That requires time and money, of course. Selling Fly would give you the time (for photo shoots) and money (for equipment) that you need to advance in your career. You have done good basic work on her so you should get a good price, and your attention will not be so divided.


Not only that, but what you could get from selling your saddle would more than pay for some photography classes that will help you develop your photography skills to make your work more marketable. And not having to pay board every month will help you have more money for equipment and travel to shooting gigs.


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## Hoofpic (Aug 23, 2015)

Rainaisabelle said:


> Hoping this was sarcasm otherwise it means you are bored because you aren't getting attention?


Of course it's sarcasm. I am in no way bored of horse ownership, if anything I am even more excited today than I was before because of my added knowledge.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Is added knowledge the same as experience?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

anndankev said:


> Is added knowledge the same as experience?


Now that could be a thread all in itself...


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

anndankev said:


> Is added knowledge the same as experience?


I don't think so....knowledge is learned. Experience is what you get right after you need it the most.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

gunslinger said:


> I don't think so....knowledge is learned. Experience is what you get right after you need it the most.


I like that. I may have to steal that.


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