# Going UP steep inclines, and the competitive instinct.



## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

OK, to complement the thread on downhills, here's one about uphills.

Last week my friend & I rode a few miles and down to a creek, the last bit being a couple of hundred yards of fairly steep 4WD track with a couple of bends. As we leave, my friend goes ahead, trotting up the slope. I held Ellie back to give some room, then started to follow, expecting to hold the same pace and distance. Well, Ellie turns into a racehorse, goes into a canter, and tries to catch & pass the other horse (on a track where there really wasn't enough room). Got her stopped about halfway up, on a flat part, but she was so impatient to go that she was starting to toss her head & crow-hop. (So I got off, held her back until the others reached the top, then jogged up beside her.)

So who messed up here, me or Ellie? Or both of us? And what can I do to correct it? Is it just my inexperience, not yet being comfortable cantering on anything but flat stretches? This was probably the steepest stretch of any length that I've yet ridden, and the only comparable one was a straight shot, and wide enough for 3-4 horses.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

You did the right thing as far as I see. Horses instinctively don't want to be left behind, but you _always_ want to be the one to pick the speed, _never_ leave that decision to the horse or you'll be fighting your horse on every ride.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Mia can be a lazy horse, particularly in an arena. Ask her to canter, and she will...but she usually makes it clear that she sees no value in rushing if we aren't actually GOING anywhere. On a trail, with somewhere to go, she is a lot more eager. Get another horse going fast in the open, and Mia loses her mind. Her inner Secretariat comes out, and all she can think of is beating the other horse.

Solution?

Sorry, but I'm not entirely sure. We are working hard on our stops - perfect stops, every stop, from any pace. I am pushing her to do more cantering in the arena, so she & I can both work on our balance and so going fast is just something we do every ride.

Do I trust her to canter nicely on a trail with another horse? Nope. She would cheerfully try to run over the top of Trooper and my daughter. Right now, the most I will try with her is a short canter with her ahead of Trooper (a must! she really would go over the top of him if needed) followed by a complete stop after no more than 50 yards.

That is what I'm trying. There may be some improvement, but I'll check this thread to see if anyone has a better approach...


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

I just worked on this same issue yesterday with my very forward horse. We were practicing alone, going a little then stopping and waiting for her to calm before going a little more and stopping again. 

She likes to trot or canter up and down hills whether she is alone or with other horses. My other horses are similar on hills. I wonder if it has to do with balance?

Anyway, I make the horses stop and calm before we move forward. It helps if they aren't fresh into the ride at that point too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

You did the right thing. Horses should go at YOUR chosen speed at any given time...not theirs. 

My former gelding Red always wanted to rush going down hill. He would actually be pushing Sarge. I had to really be on him the whole time down a steep hill so he wouldn't push the other horses. 

Going up hill he would have cantered or humped up them as fast as I would have let him. Once going up a STEEP hill he was going too fast and I half halted him with a light tap on the reins. Ok...he bucked out twice possibly to balance himself or maybe because he was ****ed. OMG it slammed me into the horn of my Aussie saddle. It felt like I had been stabbed. My stomach hurt more than I can say. A huge hematoma came up instantly the size of a man's tube socks when rolled up. :shock: We were quiet a ways from the trailer but I made it back. That was 3 years ago and I still have a little lump in my abdomen - it was there for so long I named it Harriet Hematoma. It took AGES for it to reduce in size to the little lump it is now. My cousin saw it a few days after it happened and she had a cow. My abdomen was black and blue. She is an ER director and she insisted the ER doctor look at it to make sure I wasn't hemorrhaging and didn't know it! 

LOL moral of that story is - sometimes rushing up hills can have long lasting effects!!! Make your horse go at your speed. If you have to get off to control hissy fits - so be it. Go in circles or if you can go up the incline at a angle and zig zag your way up. Sarge's trainer said that is how he taught Sarge to go up hills without rushing. Sarge will go up a hill at the speed you choose. He is a good boy!


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## toto (Mar 3, 2013)

What i would have done is-- if i didnt want to go any faster- i would have caught it at the first faster step the horse took.. thats always the best time to keep your horse under control-- When you feel them take that faster step - slow them back down before you get out of control.

'Bolters' are very easily shut down if you can feel the signs of them about to bolt on you- and you defuse the situation before it blows up.

My mare was a bolter.. shes broke bones-- and not her own, lol. 

When i felt her step out and try to get faster id slow her down immediately and make her keep walkin.. shes never once bolted on me.. shes tried- but failed. Once they know youre payin attention and youre in control of the situation that anxiety goes away.

--oh, i almost forgot--keep in mind horses use steep inclines are an excuse to bolt!!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Zig Zagging up and down the hills is a good place to start. Another way, IF you can do it and ride out the hissy fit, is to make them take one step, halt count to 3, step, halt, count to 3, all the way up and down the hill. I've found that after I can get them to slow down by zigging and zagging, then I can start working on 1 step/halt maneuvers. I usually wait until I'm almost at the top and the other riders have stopped before I try that one, the horse doesn't feel so left behind if he can see the other horses and see that they've stopped. I do that a little farther down the hill each time until one day, the horse just doesn't really even try to rush. It takes time and repetitions, lots of them.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think it boils down to more experience, no?

Went out again today, though on a trail with few steep spots, and she was generally much better at going at the pace I told her. Kinda funny, though: we went with a third person, and Ellie kept wanting to get ahead of that horse - yet every time I'd let her, she'd get a little antsy and start looking back like "What's that strange horse doing back there?"


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

jamesqf said:


> Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think it boils down to more experience, no?
> 
> Went out again today, though on a trail with few steep spots, and she was generally much better at going at the pace I told her. Kinda funny, though: we went with a third person, and Ellie kept wanting to get ahead of that horse - yet every time I'd let her, she'd get a little antsy and start looking back like "What's that strange horse doing back there?"


To get past that anxiety and to teach them to be comfortable in any position, I play "conveyor belt". You start out in the position your horse least anxious in, then the front horse peels off and goes to the back for a few yards, then the next horse peels off and goes to the back for a few yards, and you just keep on doing that for however long you're riding. As the horses get used to it, you can ride for longer in between changes and your horse gets comfortable in any position on the line while you're riding. Depending on how anxious the horse gets you might need to do it every time you ride for several rides, but if you do it long enough and often enough, they get over the anxiety, IF they're going to be any good on trail at all. Some horses just can't handle being trail horses, no matter what.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> To get past that anxiety and to teach them to be comfortable in any position, I play "conveyor belt".


Sure, and that was more or less what we were doing, swapping positions when the (mostly narrow) trail would allow. I just thought it was funny, the way she wanted to get ahead, then was bothered by having the strange horse behind her.


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

jamesqf said:


> So who messed up here, me or Ellie? Or both of us? And what can I do to correct it? Is it just my inexperience, not yet being comfortable cantering on anything but flat stretches? This was probably the steepest stretch of any length that I've yet ridden, and the only comparable one was a straight shot, and wide enough for 3-4 horses.


From what I understand, it is easier for a horse to run up a hill than it is to trot up a hill. The trot requires more work. Also, many trail riders (around here at least) often like to run up hills - the horse gets used to that. One or both of these, combined with the competitive instinct, may have been a factor.

Think about yourself going up a very steep incline. Walk would be hard. A slow jog probably harder. Once you hit a good speed, it might be hard to slow down. Not to mention the thought of getting the incline over with quicker.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Tazmanian Devil said:


> From what I understand, it is easier for a horse to run up a hill than it is to trot up a hill.


Sure, just the way it's easier for me to run/trot up a flight or two of stairs than walk slowly. That wasn't really the issue, other than me not yet being really secure riding at a canter even on the flat. It was the competitive thing, her wanting to get ahead of the other horse, and even trying to shove past because there wasn't room for two. If she'd just maintained a 1-2 length distance (or more) behind the other horse, I would have been... Well, not fine, exactly, but able to cope with the adrenaline rush


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I always thought that going up a hill (not a severely steep one) was a good place to ask for a canter. It is so much more work than cantering on the flat that my horses seem to be less likely to bolt off like crazy horses. It seems easy to stop them because they figure out how hard they are working.

If we are riding in a group, we usually just go pretty slow so that nobody's horse gets spooked. When I take beginners riding, and they mostly get to walk and maybe trot a little bit.


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## CowboyBob (Feb 11, 2013)

Being from Montana and hearing "steep slop" I might be thinking a little steeper the what you are talking. But for me, I make my horse walk up hill and that is the only speed for hills as long as there is a control problem. If you can't keep them at and walk you should not be asking for a trot or a lope. I have re-trained a few horses that like to lope up hills its a real pain. Teach them to walk its good for them.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Bob, I agree. If you can't control the horse at faster speeds, you need to slow down. I like to do a lot of walking on trails until a horse is really, really dead broke.

Georgia hills and Montana hills are very different animals.......


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Celeste said:


> I always thought that going up a hill (not a severely steep one) was a good place to ask for a canter. It is so much more work than cantering on the flat that my horses seem to be less likely to bolt off like crazy horses. It seems easy to stop them because they figure out how hard they are working.


Sure, and we do canter up fairly gradual slopes that are wide (like a dirt road) and with good footing. Say the sort of road that you'd be comfortable driving a 2WD pickup on. This was the kind of slope where you'd need 4WD in low range.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> Sure, and we do canter up fairly gradual slopes that are wide (like a dirt road) and with good footing. Say the sort of road that you'd be comfortable driving a 2WD pickup on. This was the kind of slope where you'd need 4WD in low range.


If it is a steep place I will walk. I am way too chicken hearted to do otherwise. I not only worry for my own safety, but I sure don't want to get my horse hurt. Not only do I like her, but I can't really afford to replace her so I have to take special care of her.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

I can certainly understand that, though my paranoia is more about holes lurking in flatter ground... But I ride with someone who thinks those slopes are normal (and there are lots of them hereabouts), so it's a case of we're out riding and she casually heads up/down something, ignoring the screams coming from behind her


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

jamesqf said:


> I can certainly understand that, though my paranoia is more about holes lurking in flatter ground... But I ride with someone who thinks those slopes are normal (and there are lots of them hereabouts), so it's a case of we're out riding and she casually heads up/down something, ignoring the screams coming from behind her


This is your entire problem. Choose people to ride with who will not put you in such a position. I have no tolerance for these kind of riders. They just throw gas on the fire. Don't make light of it. Tell her what you need or don't ride with her.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I prefer to not run up hills. If you are riding with someone it's best if your horse does not make the assumption that a hill means speed. I have no problem with them changing the walking speed, which ours seem to do on a steeper incline, but not break out of a walk. It can be their power-drive walk but it's still a walk!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

When riding solo my horse will happily walk, trot or canter up a hill. I really thinks he likes it.

In a group going at a trot or a canter is way too undignified for him. He jumps uphill. Many little bouncy jumps until he's at the top.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Left Hand Percherons said:


> This is your entire problem. Choose people to ride with who will not put you in such a position.


Not really a choice. She's the only reason I got into riding (well, that and Zyrtec - long story ), co-owns my horse & keeps it at her place (deal is that she does feeding &c, while I pay the bills), has the horse trailer and all the associated stuff. Plus she & her husband (who doesn't ride) are two of my closest friends.

And the other people we sometimes ride with are mostly worse


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