# Jessica Forsyth: I figured it out.



## GeminiJumper (Jun 12, 2008)

I'm sorry.


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm sorry for your loss hun. :'( But I guess a little good out of this is that she died doing what she loved


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

When did she pass? I stumbled upon her name on google when doing some research on riding accidents. It is a very sad situation but it sounds liek she and her horse had a fantastic relationship. A single moment can change things.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Horses don't obey us because they love us. Boomer didn't love her the way a human loves someone. It is worth remembering.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

did you even know jess ?


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm confused as to what you "figured out?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm also curious as to why this is being posted now? Jessica Fortsyth died in February of 2008, over 3 years ago.


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## ArabianLover2456 (Oct 5, 2010)

yes, what was "figured out"?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I'd say the OP has just heard about Jessica's death and seen that there was a lot of hype about it so jumped on the bandwagon. 

Yes, very sad, poor girl died jumping her horse, all the little kids that watch movies like the black stallion and the horse whisperer think her horse 'loved' her etc etc. 
What of all the other people who have been killed with horses?


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

people do that a lot with jess b/c she had a big youtube and was on myspace a lot. i knew her not in person, but via the internet for a few years, we talked a lot, nearly everyday. her death was very sad, and its very weird that people are always posting and obsessing about it who didnt know her or her horse or the situation at all.


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Aww, how sad. I have never heard of her before. Gypsy, the phenomenon you are referring to is called parasocial interaction, and its very common. One could argue that every person who has exposure to media experiences it, especially kids.


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

You guys need to really ruin every thread? R u kidding me? So you really honestly can stand there and say "You don't understand", "She died over 3 years ago", "Kids don't understand"? That is sick. I knew her via internet also. Her horse crushed her soul. If he didn't love her and they didn't have a bond how come she could do this.




That is so mean. . Now how do you feel? Heh??


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

fuadteagan said:


> Her horse crushed her soul. If he didn't love her and they didn't have a bond how come she could do this.
> 
> That is so mean. . Now how do you feel? Heh??


Actually, he crushed more than just her soul...

Lots of folks can stand on a horse's back. There is a guy who seems to sell horses regularly on the local Craigslist that likes to have his picture taken standing on the horse.

Horses feel affection, but that doesn't make them 'safe'.


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

I mean skull. Then she snapped her neck. Yeah, umm can they stand on the horse without a saddle or halter? In a big field? The horse not taking one step? Yes, he has hay but seriously he is just standing there for some time while someone is moving around on top of him.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

There have been a number of threads discussing if horses can feel love for a human. I'm agnostic. They certainly feel some sort of affection, but their minds are not wired like ours.

We tend to think that if I love X, X will love me back. That doesn't work with humans, let alone horses. We also tend to think that if we love an animal, or if the animal loves us, then it will behave in an unnatural way to show its love. And that usually doesn't work either.

George Adamson, of Born Free fame, loved the lions he worked with, but he knew they remained lions. When old, he hurt himself while out with one of his favorite lions. The lion attacked him, and only a 3-shot revolver kept him alive. IIRC, his third shot grazed the lion and scared him off. Adamson blamed himself for the attack, saying it was what he deserved for turning his back on a lion while showing injured behavior.

When we work with animals, we need to understand that they remain animals, with very different emotions and strongly embedded instinctive behaviors that easily override any feelings of affection they may have for a human. 

None of this is meant as a criticism of Jessice Forsyth. It is just a reminder that horses will always be horses, and it isn't fair for us to expect them to adopt human standards of behavior and emotion. It is our responsibility to learn about them and work with THEIR abilities, rather than expect them to remake themselves in our image.

As a trainer I know says, you have to love them for what they are, not for what they cannot be.


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

Ok.  Thanks for explaining.


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

I don't think that anyone was saying that you or kids in general can't understand or have feelings about it. I believe that it is natural for anyone to be upset over this kind of tragedy, regardless of whether or not you knew her. Very sad story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

Shasta1981 said:


> I don't think that anyone was saying that you or kids in general can't understand or have feelings about it. I believe that it is natural for anyone to be upset over this kind of tragedy, regardless of whether or not you knew her. Very sad story.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, You Would Think! Quite Frankly, Some People Don't Care About Anyone But Themselves! They Just Totally Ignore The Fact She Died And Yap-Yap About Some Stupid Thing... Shame :-x:-|:roll::think::think::think:


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

> Yeah, You Would Think! Quite Frankly, Some People Don't Care About Anyone But Themselves! They Just Totally Ignore The Fact She Died And Yap-Yap About Some Stupid Thing... Shame :-x:neutral::roll::think::think::think:


 
I re-read this entire thread and didn't find a single thing that indicated anyone was thinking of themselves, or said that you should ignore the fact this girl died or even any "Yap-Yap About Some Stupid Thing" or what anyone should feel ashamed of.

You posted a thread about a topic and no one could figure out why, or what the title meant. (The title is still a mystery to me.) 

So after two pages, and some Googling (not from you, who posted this in the first place), I find out who this young lady is and how and when she died. All of which is very sad. And I completely get that you felt a connection to this young woman, and are grieving, even though you only knew her through the internet. 

So, if you would like some commiseration 1.) be clear in your posts in the first place or 2.) lose the attitude when people don't understand what you're talking about and question or 3.) Both.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

maura said:


> I re-read this entire thread and didn't find a single thing that indicated anyone was thinking of themselves, or said that you should ignore the fact this girl died or even any "Yap-Yap About Some Stupid Thing" or what anyone should feel ashamed of.
> 
> You posted a thread about a topic and no one could figure out why, or what the title meant. (The title is still a mystery to me.)
> 
> ...


 My thoughts exactly.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

*waits to get shot down* so whens that over 15's rule coming in?

Tegan... PLEASE drop the childish attitude, I know you're only young, but by acting terribly 'catty' and irrational in your retorts, you are just losing yourself respect in this place by the second. 
As Maura said, your original post didn't make a hell of a lot of sense when the title ays that you 'figured it out' then just post a bunch of Jessica Forsyth video's from the net with yet another 'this is so sad' yada yada yada. 
No body has said it's not said, the poor kid, of course we feel for her, her family and the people that knew her. BUT we're getting a bit over these threads popping up constantly. Yes, she is dead now, its tragic, but people have to move on. 

As bsms explained every so eloquently, a horse will ALWAYS be a horse, and I think Jessica's death should be proof of this considering she DID get on with her horse so well. It goes to show to kids like yourself, that no matter how much on a "bond" you have with a horse, when faced with a scary situation, it's natural instincts are going to kick back in.
Boomer did not kill Jessica because he decided to turn on her or some other silly way of thinking. No, poor Boomer must have gotten a fright, or maybe slipped on the footing and fallen. He DID NOT go out of his way to kill Jessica, horses don't think like that just like they don't feel the same 'love' as a human does. 

Personally, I think that kids need to learn from this incident rather than just saying 'poor Jess, I'm so sad, they had a bond and Boomer killed her'. 

The moral of this story - No matter how much YOU may love your horse and think that you have some kind of 'black stallion' type of "bond", the horse is ALWAYS going to revert back to being a horse in certain situations. A horse trainer that barely knows a horse can do the same things that Jessica did with Boomer in a week or two of breaking a horse in, but that does not mean they have a "bond", only that they understand how a horse thinks and reacts, and works WITH the horse's instincts rather than against them. 
Even on the quietest, oldest most reliable horse that never kicked in its life, you just can't afford to turn your back or be complacent for a single second as that horse might get a fright right when you're behind it and next thing you know, you've got 2 kneecaps.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

of course its super sad that jess died [like i said i talked to her frequently before her death], but boomer didnt love her. im sorry but i dont think horses think like that, they dont put humans first when they are in a panic situation - that is actually what is thought caused her accident. him letting her stand on his back is because he was obedient, not because of love.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Hello everyone,
This post has caused me to come out of lurkdom. You have a wonderful community here and I plan on posting more in the future.
This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart. Do animals feel love? My answer is yes they do.....but they feel love in their own way, NOT ours. 
I used to be a vet technician and then I did dog and cat rescue for many, many years. Over the years I encountered people who were frustrated with their pets for one reason or another. They would say things like, "He chews my shoes to spite me." Or, "Why is she peeing on my stuff? I treat her so well. Doesn't she love me?" They could not understand why their pet was doing a particular behavior so they had to assign a human emotion to it. 
MANY times the behavior was done for a medical reason. Other times it was done simply because it was an animal doing what came natural to it. Your dog chews your shoe because dogs like to chew and your shoe felt good. Maybe they even liked chewing something because it had your scent. But your dog did not chew your shoe because it was plotting revenge against you. Animals don't think that way.

Horses are no different. I don't own a horse yet but at the barn I ride there is a horse that I'm bonded to. If he sees me, he'll start whinying like crazy. He'll sit with his head on my shoulder for hours if I let him. He gives me horsey kisses. He loves me in his own horsey way. However, if a plastic bag flew across the barnyard one day and happened to land in his face, his horse instincts would take over and my but would be planted in the ground or against the fence in no time. He would not think to "take care" of me. He would do the only thing a horse knows how to do and that is RUN like the dickins to get away from the horse eating plastic bag.

I guess being almost 40, I see things differently than young girls. They seem to think that if their horse loves them, they won't hurt them. I don't know if Jessica Forsyth thought this way and I'd never speculate that, but I do see it a lot with young girls. They anthropomorphize like crazy and it can be dangerous.

I'm no horse expert at all, but I think a man-horse relationship is like any other pet. It's really quite similar to a parent-child relationship when the child is a 2 or 3 year old. Think of it this way: A parent has a baby, takes care of that baby, baby will cry for the parent, the baby loves the parent in his own baby way. But put that baby or toddler with a stranger and within the course of a few days, the baby will have bonded to the stranger because it's in the baby's instincts to bond to the caregiver. Within a few months, the baby would have no memory of that parent whatsoever. The baby would actually cry to get away from the parent. ( Something that many military people who've spent a year over seas experience when they come home, sadly. They leave a 1 year old who loved them and come home to a 2 year old who doesn't recognize them and screams to get away from them) 

Does a child think to protect their parent? If something scares the child, are they are going to run to protect the parent or are they going to run to protect themselves? A child puts its own needs first and foremost, not your needs. A child is not capable of loving a parent in the same way a parent loves the child. It's not until the child is older that they develop the kind of love that an adult can feel.

Think of yourself as the parent and the horse as your child and you'll have a better understanding of how to handle your horse. An animal feels emotion, no doubt. It can even feel emotions that humans feel (anger, jealousy, happiness) but it does not feel the way or the same depth that a person feels. It caps out at the same level a 2 year old child would feel, lol. Expecting more out of your horse than you'd get from a 2 year old child is expecting too much. 

Sorry for rambling about this! Bless your heart if you've read this far!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Good post, Heelsdown. Hope you stick around and post more often 
In my younger days I used to stand on horses' backs just cause I could, mostly I was young and stupid, but that's neither here nor there. Anyways, I would stand up for a few seconds to show how brave I was, not because I had a special bond.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

Kayty said:


> *waits to get shot down* so whens that over 15's rule coming in?
> 
> Tegan... PLEASE drop the childish attitude, I know you're only young, but by acting terribly 'catty' and irrational in your retorts, you are just losing yourself respect in this place by the second.
> As Maura said, your original post didn't make a hell of a lot of sense when the title ays that you 'figured it out' then just post a bunch of Jessica Forsyth video's from the net with yet another 'this is so sad' yada yada yada.
> ...


Ahem--I guess you won't be the best person to give my money too huh? Mmm :-x Guess I gotta' save my money for someone else.. Errr :-|


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Money? I don't understand at all. 
Fuad, I think that Heelsdown's response would be a good one for you to read.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

And I said nothing you said Kayty. I said and know how much Boom misses Jess and didn't mean to kill her. He has problems--Like all horses. Unfortunately, that took her life. Animals do feel different about different people. Some horses will only do something for people they trust, a feeling. At least her parents didn't sell him.


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I just read this whole thing and I agree with Kayty's post and welcome heelsdown your post was great too. What was with the money comment, I don't get it?


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

gypsygirl said:


> people do that a lot with jess b/c she had a big youtube and was on myspace a lot. i knew her not in person, but via the internet for a few years, we talked a lot, nearly everyday. her death was very sad, and its very weird that people are always posting and obsessing about it who didnt know her or her horse or the situation at all.


Its not weird. It is called a heart. It struck me deep in the heart when I found out about the accident a while ago. I talked to Brandy (The owner of the barn boom is at). Since you knew her via internet also how come you think you know more about her than me? If you knew her and thought it was sad why I are you being all ..... the word? mmmmmm...... mean. Actually, I was bored right now so I was looking through youtube and was looking at all her videos and decided to post something on here. So thanks for being...... errr. :shock:


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Uh???? Teagan - the first paragraph of my post was towards you, not the full post. Again, I suggest trying to drop the childish attitude towards this subject as it will get you no where. 
And mate, if you're talking drawing money, it's up to you what you do with it and who draws for you. I'd love to do a commission for you, but I don't need to beg people to commission me, I'm still an active forum member and it's quite known that I have strong opinions on certain matters and tell it how it is. If you chose to take my comments in an offensive manner, that is no skin off my nose, I'm not relying on a possible commission from you to fund the rest of my life. 
Maybe take some time out to cool down and re-read this thread, you may realise how your posts are coming across.


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

apachewhitesox said:


> I just read this whole thing and I agree with Kayty's post and welcome heelsdown your post was great too. What was with the money comment, I don't get it?


I just saved up like $200 in the last month, not buying anything for one of Kayty's drawing. Obviously, I don't think that it is worth it :-|. She has good drawings but, seriously? If she thinks I'm childish why would I do that???


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

I hate to point it out to you fuadteagan but your posts are coming across as very childish and rude. If it annoys you that much simply use your money for something else. As Kayty said above its not going to bother her that much if you don't get one. There is no need to go posting it everywhere because you are unhappy about her being honest.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

:roll::roll: Point proven?


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

All I want to know is what you figured out.



:lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

Haha that is a good question Sunny


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

wow. >_<


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Heelsdown said:


> ...I guess being almost 40, I see things differently than young girls. They seem to think that if their horse loves them, they won't hurt them. I don't know if Jessica Forsyth thought this way and I'd never speculate that, but I do see it a lot with young girls. They anthropomorphize like crazy and it can be dangerous...




We initiate the relationship with horses, and we have a more powerful brain. It is up to us to understand the horse, not for the horse to act like a human. 

I didn't plan on liking horses. My wife & daughter wanted them, and now I do 75% of the riding. The mare, Mia, is the reason. She is an unusual horse, a very frustrating horse, dominant, fearful and stubborn.

A relationship is important to her trust, but no amount of 'relating' will buy obedience. That comes from confidence that I know what I'm doing (or not - which is what we are working on now). But it is my obligation to get into her mind and understand her and treat her in a way that gains her obedience, and no amount of carrots or pets will do that. I need to become a better rider, and I need to work with how she responds when afraid.

My obligation - get in her mind and teach her in a way that she can understand. Trust is far more important to a horse than 'love'. And in an emergency, I can always expect her to act like a horse. That is what she is. If I don't want a horse, I shouldn't own one.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

"And in an emergency, I can always expect her to act like a horse. That is what she is.* If I don't want a horse, I shouldn't own one.*" 

:clap:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

bsms, I always enjoy reading your posts. For someone who says they're still a beginner, you have such an outstanding and down to earth understanding of how a horse thinks and why it acts as it does. I guess that sort of approach comes with maturity as well as personal qualities and I applaud you for it. 
It would be great if animals did love us as we love them - would be nice if my little gelding would act as 'loving' to me under saddle as he does on the ground!! But horses will always be horses. A dog will bite if cornered, even if the most docile pet. A cat will scratch if provoked again, even if a docile, well loved family pet. And of course, a horse will flee if given a fright. 
I'm sure Jessica's horse respected her and was a fantastic horse, BUT, Jess has been gone for 3 years, Boomer is not going to miss her. If someone else is supplying his food and keeping him happy, he won't give two hoots if Jess is around or not. As much as we'd love to think that a horse will miss us and grieve over us, it is really not too bothered. Sure, it'll notice that we're not around, maybe wonder where we have gone.. but as I said above, if it's got food and friends, it's not going to be too worried!


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

bsms....exactly! If you want to ride something with no mind of its own, get a motorcycle! 

I think what throws people is the word "love". There are so many different kinds of love and really telling someone that their beloved pet doesn't love them is as hurtful as me telling a parent that their 2 year old doesn't love them. As I pointed out in my example, it's a different kind of love. A baby or toddler is only capable of loving so much in a certain way and an animal is no different. 

But as much as a pet can have love, affection and loyalty to its owner, that does not translate into human adult feelings. I honestly don't see what love has to do with this tragic situation with this poor girl at all. 
It's not about whether a pet feels love or not. It's the fact that riding horses is dangerous because you are sitting on top of a 1400 pound animal that can be as skittish as a rabbit should the situation arise. The bond a rider has with that horse is neither here nor there. 

It's really a strange relationship. You are in charge, they need to respect you and trust you. But at the same time, YOU need to respect their size and strength. It's all too easy to forget that you are sitting 5 feet off the ground on something that can kill you. Is it trying to hurt you on purpose? Most likely no. I've read so many tragic horse accident stories and I haven't seen any where a horse was trying to hurt its rider. Didn't matter. 

I've seen so many youtube videos where I'm just cringing at the stupid things people do because they trust their horse and think that the pet-human bond will somehow put a forcefield around them and protect them. I wonder if I thought this way when I was younger? I can't remember, lol. I probably did.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Luckily, I suppose, my first ever horse threw me at least once every ride for the first year I owned her. When we finally clicked, I had no dilusions that she loved me, but rather we had arrived at some point of respect. I still did stupid things, yes, but I don't think (past the point of very young childhood) that I ever thought that my horses "loved" me in the human sense. Never would they have put their well-being beyond mine, though of course training kicks in. 
I have been fortunate enough to share a bond with three horses that have been in my life. Never would I mistake that for any human type of love, though the bond was very special to me. I do wonder if they would recognize me now, though... Interesting point to ponder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Heelsdown - I hope you stick around, you're very good value!!  

I don't think I ever thought that I was invincible as a kid when it came to horses. I of course loved the black stallion and similar books/movies and wished that I could have that kind of relationship with horses, but always had that element of respect towards the size and strength of a horse compared to me. There was always that underlying thought of 'if something happens and my horse gets scared... it could kill me' and therefore, I certainly trod very carefully. 

I do believe that to not only own a horse, but to just ride them, you MUST have a certain element of not so much fear, but respect. As you said heelsdown, the relationship between a horse and person is an interesting one. We must gain the respect of a horse by laying down the groundrules and I guess, in way, fooling the horse into believing that we are a lot scarier than what they are so they'd better not get into our space without invitation. On the other side of the relationship, as much as we try to train our horse to react in a calm manner and look to us for guidance before they chose to react to a situation, they weigh in at over 500kg of pure muscle, with iron clad hooves with a hell of a lot of force behind them. Without meaning to, a horse can kill us. 
It would be plain out stupid, to become complacent around a horse and assume that because it respects us, it will not hurt us when put into a confrontational situation.


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## chevaliernr (May 24, 2009)

Heelsdown said:


> They anthropomorphize like crazy and it can be dangerous.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

fuadteagan said:


> Actually, I was bored right now so I was looking through youtube and was looking at all her videos and decided to post something on here. So thanks for being...... errr. :shock:


I do find it sad that it was boredom that got you to create this thread though.




fuadteagan said:


> Ahem--I guess you won't be the best person to give my money too huh? Mmm :-x Guess I gotta' save my money for someone else.. Errr :neutral:


Probably not.

A investment in furthering your education would be a good place to put any spare change.


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## jody111 (May 14, 2008)

gasp both my horses love me!!! well they love my carrots....


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## Hollaaaay (Apr 20, 2011)

Horses dont love certain humans, they can just tolerate certain people's actions more than others.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Fuad, you are acting _very_ immature. YOU are the type of person that will give everyone else of your age group a bad reputation. Stop acting like a five-year old and pointing the finger of blame at everyone but yourself.

So....when exactly is this 15+ age limit coming into play? ;-)


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I think its in place, but the under 15 year olds can reply to their own treads - just not others. So since this is her thread she will still be able to post here.


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## HopalongCassidy (Dec 19, 2010)

All i'm going to say is

1. poor girl. I read about Jessica about a year ago.

2. Answers.com - How did jessica forsyth die

though the horse may have loved her this could have happened to anyone. This was unpreventable.It was her time to go and God took her. (No offence to anyone that's not Christian.) Also the person that made this really you need to explain your self and i saved my horse from slaughter from 150 pounds under weight to perfect health. I think he has a place in his heart for me though i LOVE him to death he may love me or not. Maybe he just like the food i give him after we ride that's why he listens. I will never know. No one will.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

We all take that chance when we get on a horse, we all know the "what if's" and the "could happen's" and that's why we try to keep ourselves as well educated as we can be, so that we can be prepared for those "anything's" that can rear their ugly heads.

Many have died while on horses, many have experienced, throughout their riding careers, an accident here and there. That's how it goes. Expect the unexpected.

I don't understand the thread either - if you are going to go out of your way to post something about a loss of life with one person who met their tragic ends while riding, why not start a thread about all those, throughout history, who have met the same fate? 

Heck, since we're at it - how about I start a thread about all the eventers who've lost their lives while on course? Because it is, what it is. Yes, very sad, very tragic - we hang our heads in a moment of silence to pay our respects, we keep them alive in our memories through videos and pictures, but it is what it is. 

That's the choice they made when they put their foot in the iron. We learn through their experiences - to not take anything for granted.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

Thank you Kayty! 




> I have been fortunate enough to share a bond with three horses that have been in my life. Never would I mistake that for any human type of love, though the bond was very special to me. I do wonder if they would recognize me now, though... Interesting point to ponder.


I'm sure he does. I've read in a few places that horses have very long memories. Not quite what an elephant has, but better than a human. While a horse could be sold to a new owner and he will bond with that owner, he would still recognize you even 10 years later.
I've read a few stories about people who sold a horse only to come in contact with it again years later at an event or a barn, and the horse instantly recognized them. 

They really are beautiful animals. I don't see a point in trying to define love or to say that because it's not human love, it's not worthy of being called love. I see a lot of horse-man relationships at my barn. For some people, the horse is nothing more than a object that is going to help them get another ribbon. They are no more bonded to the horse than they would be to a car. For others there's respect and fondness between them and their horse. But every so often, I'll see a horse and rider that have what I would call love. My aunt has it with her horse. She will leave her hay to follow my aunt around. Now that's love! lol. 
But again, the respect, bond, love is not the issue regarding this tragedy. I think that is what this poster was trying to "figure out." How can this happen when this girl had such a good relationship with her horse? Having an accident doesn't have a thing to do with your relationship with that horse. It just doesn't work that way. 
Any rider can have an accident, no matter how experienced they are. Any horse can cause a rider to have an accident no matter how bonded to the rider they are. You can't "horse whisper" a horse's instinct out of them.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Love the last sentence, heelsdown. Another great post. 
I would like to think the three would recognize me - I know one would for sure, but I do wonder about my first heart horse. Anyways, that's delving into another topic entirely. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DSJ46 (Aug 11, 2010)

If I read a former post correctly, the person posting said she started this thread "out of boredom" and just went around on the internet looking for such a story to post about. I am sorry, but I just find something obscene in this kind of thing. My hometown, Joplin, Mo was recently destroyed (I mean, freaking destroyed!) in a tornado. I now live in Wa. state, and so I didn't feel I could make a youtube commentary on it. I don't live there anymore. But there were people, especially teenagers, from all over the place who came to push out a couple of tears for the town and the handsome Will Norton. As a former resident, it kind of made me sick. So does the internet worship of these pretty dead icons of horseriding. Let's mourn some ugly middle aged rider killed for a change...but that's not romantic, is it? And it is the romance in it that makes me queasy. I don't mean to sound argumentative here, but it is just too easy to smile with self-satisfaction while crying for pretty dead young people you didn't know...and didn't discover until 3 years after they are dead. Buy a James Dean poster. It works just as good.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Good post, DSJ! Haven't heard from you in a while!

I agree completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DSJ46 (Aug 11, 2010)

And I am just going to weigh in on this horse-love thing too. Of course our horses love us, if we give them good reason to. I love my horse. My horse loves me. We have a wonderful, special bond. But animals have the intellectual development of a 2 1/2 year old, or so I have read. My horse doesn't rationalize that she weighs 1,300 pounds, and I only weigh 140. And if a wolf jumps out of the woods while we are riding, my horse is not going to stop and think, "I had better be careful and not hurt anyone, so I won't rear up and spin and run." I have a horse and a toddler. I love them both, and they both love me. (I am mystified by people who say animals don't feel and show love!) Is it partly because I give my horse carrots--and my toddler toast? Sure. Even adult human love is based in getting something out of the relationship. We call someone sick who stays in a relationship in which he is getting nothing. But I don't expect my horse to be able to think any more deeply than my toddler can. And my relationship with my horse is much like that with my toddler. "Trust me. Obey me. I will take care of you. Let me lead." Neither are safe, to themselves or others, otherwise. But of course they love!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^^ Define love.

When I was 11, my Mom told me love was when you cared more about the other person than yourself. 42 years later, that seems a good working definition to me. And by that standard, I don't think horses love others. Like? Yes. Enjoy being around? Yes. Love? Not really.

And that is where folks get hurt. They think their horse 'loves' them, and apply a human definition. So they expect the horse to take their welfare into consideration, which many horses will do...to a point.

A couple of years ago I was walking my spooky mare Mia thru a narrow spot. She was behind me, and she spooked & bolted. How she missed me, I don't know. I didn't think there was enough room for her to physically make it past me without clobbering me, but she did. She then spun around - which I didn't think there was room for - and put her head next to my chest as if to say, "Take care of me!"

But she is also entirely capable of getting scared beyond the point of even knowing I'm there. That is why I've started her ground work back at the beginning. I need to get her past that level of fear, or at least to get her to respond in a less dangerous manner.

But while she prefers me to any other human, she remains a horse. She will always be able to get scared to a point where her instinct for survival will overwhelm her thought of me. And if I don't understand that, then it isn't safe for me to be around her. She has far too much power and speed for me to be invincible.


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## DSJ46 (Aug 11, 2010)

Go back and read my post, BSMS. I don't think you got it. If anything, a horse loves more purely than a human does--she isn't motivated, even subsciously, because I have a good job or because I am charming (ha!) or because I am good lookling (double ha!), but because I am good to her. A horse just can't rationalize her reactions, especially to fear. I surely don't expect her to, and I don't buy this believing in horse-love will get you hurt. (Believing in horse-rationalizing will get you hurt. They can't think independently.)

And sorry to disagree with Mum. But if you are looking for someone to love you more than himself/herself, you won't find that anywhere. We are programmed for ourselves first. Why do we love our children more than anything else? Because they are OURS, the continuation of OUR genetic material. Nature programs preservation of the self.

Love is a kind of self-preservation too, so Mum's definition doesn't work. (In fact, by her definition, no toddler could love!) I love those who make life pleasant, interesting, joyful FOR ME. Same with any other human being--or horse.

Definition of love?: the strong urge to be with others who bring ME joy, happiness and contentment.

And so I say again...horses can love.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Well, I guess we disagree about what love is...


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## DSJ46 (Aug 11, 2010)

I think that is the basis of it...but I think the most important thing to take away from this is that we always have to remember the inability of a horse to think for herself. Rider has to be God, Mama, Daddy, brother and sister to the horse (and I don't mean by using brute force)--if my horse even begins to think for herself on a ride, we will circle until doom's day if we have to. And even then, the horse is going to always have lapses, and we have to be ready for it. Some believe they can't love; some of us believe they can. What they can't do is make wise decisions in pressure situations.

Glad this thread took another turn. I give a big thumbs down to its original premise. Borrowed grief is shameful.


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## Heelsdown (Jun 5, 2011)

*If* in order to love, a person or thing must love another more than itself, then like DSJ said, children wouldn't be capable of love. And we know that isn't true. 
I believe that animals can and do love. They don't know how to reason that love like an adult person can. So a horses's love for you won't protect you if they are scared. But I don't see how in the case of this poor girl Jessica, why her horse's love even comes into question. This was a riding accident plain and simple.

If a person is in a car accident, does the driver's love for the passengers come into question? "Hey you must not love your children/ husband/ wife/friend because if you did you would have paid more attention to the road or not been speeding."
It just seems like there are multiple issues going on here. This girl's bond with her horse and the fact that she had a riding accident have nothing to do with one another, imo. I'm kind of lost. 
I do agree, DSJ about borrowed grief. I think the reason that happens is often it's done by the younger set. I can remember being a teenager and being much more affected by the death of another teen than someone my age now, lol. Then we have Youtube and just the internet overall making sort of celebrities out of average people. This girl had a lot of youtube videos and followers. She was an amazing rider, she was so young, and she had beautiful bond with her horse. I think it makes it hard for some to understand what happened. I see it a lot with young girls at my barn. They seem to think, even subconsciously, that being young, an experienced rider with a horse they trust = being invincible.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

So your not going to buy her drawings because she stated her opinion *rolls eyes* Anyways, off topic.

Ok so I have never heard of Jess and yes it is sad. But stuff likes this happens.

Now to the REAL question...
*What the heck did you figure out?!*


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## fuadteagan (Jun 10, 2010)

Ok. Don't get your panties in a wad. I just read the posts and decide to ignore them. What is the point? Then u can just further point out all this stuff. Seriously, she died. Show a little sympathy. Honestly, It makes me mad looking at the posts. I love I just love how people COMPLETELY ignore the fact she died and point out my mistakes. I forgot to add something in the post, DOESN'T MATTER! OK, Seriously. I know what I did wrong blah blah and love isn't possibly and I'm just some stupid young person. Well, good for you for pointing it out and making my life a little harder. -claps- Your so nice. Congrats. I can't believe how mean u can be. :|. All I wanted is to remember her as a great rider. Trust me, why don't u go stand on a horse's back in a field with nothing to hold him from running and come back and tell me what happened. Please. Go ahead. Ok, I'll be waiting.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Again, it is training. Many a horse and rider can accomplish that.
Could I at this moment? Nope. But this is because my horse isn't trained to do so, not because my horse and I don't have a relationship.

No one is not showing sympathy, it is very sad. However, it is old news. There have been more recent people who died from horse-related injuries that have gone unnoticed. Jess has had lots and lots of recognition.


Can I still not get an answer? What did you figure out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DSJ46 (Aug 11, 2010)

Fuadteagan--we are really not trying to beat up on you. In fact, just trying to enlighten you to something it takes a long time to learn. Most things are not about you. It is okay to feel sad about someone else, but don't make a public show of it to make it about you. We are not about "making life harder for you" (this idea also is one of youth, that people would even trouble themselves enough to try to trouble you).

If it helps, I did the same thing the day after John Lennon (Wiki him ; ) was shot. My friend Wayne and I wailed and moaned and really enjoyed ourselves. It's what youth does. It emotes.

By the way, standing on a horse is pointless, and, unless you are a circus performer, I think, pretty foolish, so I won't be doing it. It wouldn't say anything about me as a rider or the relationship I have with my horse either.


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

Dude, I really am sympathetic. I CARE! I had a sister that died. I surely do care. Actually, I have felt gutted all day after reading Jess's stories. I feel for her family as well. Grow up a little a think about what we are all saying and DO NOT jump to conculsions.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Don't bother Pinto, you're just flogging a dead horse mate!


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

I kinda figured :/ Oh well, I tried.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Think this one is beyond help unfortunately until maturity kicks in


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Think this one is beyond help unfortunately until maturity kicks in


lol that might take a while. :lol:


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

Wasn't there a new rule enforced?


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

Question whatever happened to the horsr. Did the family keep him or sell him,do they lease or ride him???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

*horse*

She did have some talent it is sad but thing happen.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

If love is another word for "those tasty things in your pocket", yes, my horses love me!


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## DSJ46 (Aug 11, 2010)

PintoTess: you can kind of get a feel for genuine grief and borrowed grief. This poster did say she started this (now very long) thread "out of boredom." (Genuine grief is usually quiet.)


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

^Agreed. My grief is always quiet.


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## ldemeter (Apr 12, 2012)

There are some interesting comments here. I have some perspective that I'd like to share based on my experience riding horses for 11 years. The death of Jessica Forsyth is really tragic and from what I've seen in the videos on youtube, she seemed like an experienced rider who loved her horse. Sadly, some horses are just too overwhelming for some people like Boomer was for Jessica. 

Based on what I've gathered from the events that happened on that day, Boomer sounded very hyper that day and kept evading the log. I think Jessica may have pushed him too hard that day. What made me realize is that trainer supervision is so important when jumping your horse. In the 11 years I rode horses, I NEVER jumped alone. Jumping is dangerous and you could get hurt... So you need people around to be there to help you in case anything goes wrong. Also, my trainers were very strict with me to make sure I was following the safety rules. 

The most important thing to understand is that horses are very sensitive, alert animals, as affectionate as they may be. They are very tuned to their surroundings and they can react without warning when under stressful situations or feel uncomfortable. If you ride, you'll know that horses respond to cues given by the leg, heel, hands, and even your eyes and pelvis. They also sense fear very easily, even feeling the fear from the rider in the way she holds the reins.

So I've learned over the years that learning good horsemanship makes you a safer and better rider. The ultimate goal in training is for the horse to be calm and feel safe. When a horse feels calm and safe, a remarkable, trusting and lasting partnership can happen with his rider.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

fuadteagan said:


> Ok. Don't get your panties in a wad. I just read the posts and decide to ignore them. What is the point? Then u can just further point out all this stuff. Seriously, she died. Show a little sympathy. Honestly, It makes me mad looking at the posts. I love I just love how people COMPLETELY ignore the fact she died and point out my mistakes. I forgot to add something in the post, DOESN'T MATTER! OK, Seriously. I know what I did wrong blah blah and love isn't possibly and I'm just some stupid young person. Well, good for you for pointing it out and making my life a little harder. -claps- Your so nice. Congrats. I can't believe how mean u can be. :|. All I wanted is to remember her as a great rider. Trust me, why don't u go stand on a horse's back in a field with nothing to hold him from running and come back and tell me what happened. Please. Go ahead. Ok, I'll be waiting.


my horse wouldn't care, i do stuff like that all the time<3
I'm lucky she behaves so nicely for me

I wish she could love me back.
But it's amazing just knowing that she trusts and responds to me<3


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