# Is 14.2 hands a pony or not?



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Well it depends, if it is a Haflinger it is always a horse!


In my youth ponies were always 14.2hh and under, as soon as they stick the least little but above that they are in the next class.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think a lot depends on the breed. Some say only under and others say up to 14.2. And others are always called horses, no matter what their height.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

If you're showing and the pony is getting a permanent card...14.2 and not a hair over.
It is a exacting measurement and "size" can mean the difference of thousands in value from large pony to small horse. :shock:
I have seen a pony being carded having shoes measured, hooves cut short so the pony makes the size cut-off and that they were jogged to make sure they were sound some were cut so short. :icon_rolleyes:This official document was done with and by a licensed veterinarian in attendance.


I was taught up to and including 14.2 hands, not over is the cut-line of pony or horse.
So, if your "animal" is 14.2 hands exact, then that is a pony.
If you "animal" is 14.2 hands and a tiny bit more...then you have crossed the threshold and now own a small horse.

Once you start tossing in the breed thing then it makes the numbers and technical apply differently.

So, depending upon what country you live in will also dictate whether you have a horse or pony.
I did not know that in Australia the division is 14 hands for pony horse is larger by any measure of 14 hands.
Learned something new... :smile:

I kept finding this on most sites of reference...
"For practical reasons, the cutoff point to be classified as a horse or a pony is 14.2 hands. If one is more than 14.2 hands that is a horse. If one is less than 14.2 that is a pony."
This one is from... _https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-horse-and-vs-pony/_

Wikipedia has this... For many forms of competition, the official definition of a pony is a horse that measures less than 14.2 hands (58 inches, 147 cm) at the withers. Horses are 14.2 or taller. The International Federation for Equestrian Sports defines the official cutoff point at 148 centimetres (58.27 in) (just over 14.2 h) without shoes and 149 centimetres (58.66 in) (just over 14.2-1/2 h) with shoes, though allows a margin for competition measurement of up to 150 centimetres (59.1 in) (14.3 h) without shoes, or 151 centimetres (59.45 in) (just under 14.3-1/2 h) with shoes... _https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pony_

So the bottom line is it depends upon where you live, what organizations you show under, what "breed" your pony is and how the measuring is done....
For me, 14.2 is a pony...truly "sticked" on a solid, hard & flat surface with adjustment for shoes allowed.
That is the cut-line... _you *can* go horse or pony. _:|
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

For Pintos the line is at 14 hh, even.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

As said it all depends on where you live. 

In the U.K. A pony is 15 hands or under. There are classes, (working hunter pony) where height divisions are not the traditional 14.2, 13.2 or 12.2 but by 12. 13, 14 and 15 hands and under. 

I think that in all countries 14.2 would be considered a pony, nothing wrong with that! Often great things come in little packages.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Thanks everyone! This was very interesting! I knew that for some breeds, size isn't really considered, but I didn't know that in the UK a "pony" was up to 15 hands. This summer we did a trail ride in Scotland where some of the "ponies" were the size of my daughter's quarter horse -- I was wondering about that! I also rode a "horse" in Iceland that was about the size of my pony. Icelandic "horses" can be 13 hands high, it doesn't matter, it's still a "horse" and don't you dare tell them otherwise!  I actually asked my guide how they could call them horses, and he said (with a straight face) that every single one of them was at least 14.2 hands, LOL.

I also learned that in Iceland there is a trend toward their "horses" actually getting bigger, and some of them are probably going to break the 14.2 barrier soon, as people in Iceland are getting more into pleasure riding and want larger animals to ride. Just a semi-interesting fact to toss out there!

I love my guy and it doesn't matter if he's a valuable pony or a much less valuable horse with stubby short legs, but I'm glad I know now.

Thanks!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

If you don't show, no one cares. Ride what suits you. 

Generally speaking, it is only going to matter in English disciplines. Because jumping. That's where height mainly comes into play and because jumping has in many ways dictated the evolution of English competition, height divisions became very particular and important. There is also a long tradition in Britain of mounting children on ponies of gradually increasing size, where in the American West kids usually just rode whatever was available, which was usually a full sized western horse, 14.2 to 15.2. There's still no such thing as a pony class in Western shows, that I know of. In some disciplines where quickness and agility is paramount, like cutting, you'll see full grown men on 14 hand horses. 

If you have a breed which tends to be small or has lines within it that tend to be small (which includes Arabians, Quarter Horses, Morgans, Rocky Mountain Horses, Haflingers, Canadians, Paso Finos, and others), you have a horse. Period. 14.2 in any of those breeds is nothing in particular. In most of them it is the average size of the breed. Although because of the modern tendency toward gigantism which is connected both to the popularitiy of Warmbloods and how fat Americans have gotten, most historically short-stature breeds now have very tall lines within them, a trend which I personally loathe. 

Height does matter in some other disciplines besides jumping. Racing (longer legs are faster), Dressage, and AQHA/Paint/Appaloosa halter classes (bigger is flashier).


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

When I was a kid growing up in the western part of the U.S. 14.2 was the bottom cut off for a horse. My little guy was 14.2 and was considered a horse. He wasn't a pony type breed. Things change to suite peoples minds so it could be different now.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

I don't show and I am totally wrong on rules in this sense, but I always said if it was 14.0 or over it was a small horse IMO and 13.3 and under was a pony, unless like some said Haffies, Icelandics etc are known as horses always regardless of size, I know dales, and haffies etc have been known to break 15hh and the dales have been classified as a pony as far as I'm aware


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

We own a 14.2 h Arab. A show steward told me he should not be in a pony class because he's an Arab. However, I told her he is only 75% Arab (25% QH), so he doesn't have papers. In that case, she told me, he can be in a pony class. 

So 14.2 IS still a pony, however, it may depend on the breed which classes he can enter.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

ACinATX said:


> I also rode a "*horse*" in Iceland that was about the size of my *pony*.


I posted this before, but it's adorable enough to repeat for you:


https://vimeo.com/113323901


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

As others have said, it depends on the context. There are pony breeds and horse breeds. The size has more to do with divisions in competitions. So if you have a pony breed that grew larger, he is still a pony. If you have a horse breed that stayed short, he is still a horse. If you are competing in divisions dictated by size, then it will be dictated in the rule book.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

horselovinguy said:


> So the bottom line is it depends upon where you live, what organizations you show under, what "breed" your pony is and how the measuring is done....
> For me, 14.2 is a pony...truly "sticked" on a solid, hard & flat surface with adjustment for shoes allowed.
> That is the cut-line... _you *can* go horse or pony. _:|
> :runninghorse2:...
> _jmo..._



This is pretty much it.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

To add more confusion --- my first Temnessee Walking Horse (RIP Duke) was 14.3H and considered a pony in the technical side of the Walking Horse world.

I never called him a pony and neither did anyone I trail rode with --- the comments were always along the lines of "he sure is a tough little HORSE"; "little horse" being the operative

I am 5'2" ---- my idea of a true pony size is if I can throw my leg over its back and slide on with nothing more than a slight hop-----


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

ACinATX said:


> Thanks everyone! This was very interesting! I knew that for some breeds, size isn't really considered, but I didn't know that in the UK a "pony" was up to 15 hands.
> 
> Thanks!



Nor did I! Did they change something @Foxhunter it was always 14.2 and under, never ever heard of a pony being up to 15hh :eek_color::eek_color:


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Whinnie said:


> As others have said, it depends on the context. There are pony breeds and horse breeds. The size has more to do with divisions in competitions. So if you have a pony breed that grew larger, he is still a pony. If you have a horse breed that stayed short, he is still a horse. If you are competing in divisions dictated by size, then it will be dictated in the rule book.


My pony's breed is "backyard," LOL. Trainer thinks he's a mix of Morgan, Welsh pony, and Quarter Horse. He was gelded late (age five; he was a stud pony) and I think he would have been ended up as a very short horse if he had been gelded earlier. I love him no matter what, of course, even when he went from a gorgeous black to a splotchy brown this summer. But I have been toying with the idea of half leasing him out to a kid to show (he is being trained to jump, and he's really popular with the girls at the barn), so it's useful to know whether that's going to work or not.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Generally gelding increases a horse's height as they are putting more into bone and less onto muscle.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Nor did I! Did they change something @Foxhunter it was always 14.2 and under, never ever heard of a pony being up to 15hh :eek_color::eek_color:



I was always taught, mostly Pony Club, that anything 15 hands or under was a pony although it was always 14.2 and under for pony classes. 

I cannot remember when they brought in the Working Hunter Pony classes, but as I said, these were for 15 hands and under so, as they are 'pony' classes it must be recognised by the British Show Horse and Cob that it is so.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

I was always told anything under 15 hands was considered a pony.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Nor did I! Did they change something @*Foxhunter* it was always 14.2 and under, never ever heard of a pony being up to 15hh :eek_color::eek_color:


I think it changed back when they decided that the hunter classes for ponies would be measured at 12 hands, 13 hands, 14 hands, 15 hands 
I don't know why that is because the riding pony and pony jumping classes are still measured at the old 12.2, 13.2 etc other than its all in centimeters now.
The M&M hunter classes are even more confusing because they have height limitations on them according to breed standards so for eg a Highland and a New Forest can't exceed 14.2 hands


As far as I know Australia and New Zealand follow the same rules for the same showing classes


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

It was something I was told as a child. I asked many very knowledgeable people as to why if. 15 hands was a pony they couldn't compete in junior classes. No one knew!


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

jaydee said:


> I don't know why that is because the riding pony and pony jumping classes are still measured at the old 12.2, 13.2 etc *other than its all in centimeters now.*



And that is plain wrong! it just is....


Same as being ring crew at hunter/jumper shows, why do I have to set jumps in feet and inches for Hunters, and centimeters for jumpers? Has no one told them that the holes in the standards are where they are, I can't make them different, can change the poles, but the sizes stay the same!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think it would have been much better to have had an established global system for measuring horses that everyone understood. 'Hands' has been traditionally used for so long it seemed pointless to alter it.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

*Y*



ACinATX said:


> Hi!
> 
> My pony surprised us by growing from 14.1 1/2 hands at five and a half years, to 14.2 hands now. His trainer says that's a large pony; and it looks, from perusing class size at a couple of horse shows, that they do consider 14.2 hands to be a pony. But the internet clearly says that a pony is LESS than 14.2 hands (not less than or equal to 14.2, just less than). So, is my pony still a pony? I told him that if he isn't still a pony he can no longer get away with his pony antics, so he's really hoping the answer is "yes."
> 
> ...



It's actually quite easy. While the world of competition has height rules and uses the word "pony" loosely (incorrectly in my opinion, but that's just me since they'll allow short "horses"), all that is for the sake of keeping the competitors on as level a playing field as possible.


In the real world it has nothing to do with the animals height. A 15 hh Dales or Shetland is still a pony and not a horse. A 14 hh Arabian or QH is still a horse and not a pony. The old "cow ponies" or "Indian ponies" were not actually ponies. They were horses that people called "ponies". Now while a 15 hh Dales is not within the breed standard that won't change want it is. It might impact what you can do with it competitively or impact whether someone wants to use it for breeding stock, but it will still be a Dales pony regardless.


If you breed a horse to a horse you get a horse. If you breed a pony to a pony you get a pony. If you breed a horse to a pony you get a cross (and for those purposes I suppose someone could make the argument of using height to determine if it's a horse or a pony) ).


Just like if you breed a hound to a hound you get a hound not a herd dog. Breed an LGD to another LGD you'll get an LGD. Doesn't matter the breed. If you breed "like to like" that's what you'll produce (a Pointer to Spaniel will still produce a "bird dog").


Now I'm going to have to go tell my Mastiff that she's not a "giant breed" dog, because she was the runt and as always weighed about the same as a large Rottweiler. So now she just a "large" breed and not a Mastiff ****. Let's go back 1,000 years before anyone knew about "genetics" ).


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## wskadavis (Nov 19, 2018)

Who cares what you call the horse? We have a 14.1 quarter horse, whether you classify him as a pony or a horse we still have fun riding him.


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## Punchy (Jul 24, 2019)

I won $325k on a horse that was 14.2hh. You can call him whatever you'd like, I call all cow horses, cow ponies. Different parts of the world I guess.


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## TeeZee (May 26, 2018)

I call our short QH a hony, but she sure has big horse grit.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> As said it all depends on where you live.
> 
> In the U.K. A pony is 15 hands or under. There are classes, (working hunter pony) where height divisions are not the traditional 14.2, 13.2 or 12.2 but by 12. 13, 14 and 15 hands and under.
> 
> I think that in all countries 14.2 would be considered a pony, nothing wrong with that! Often great things come in little packages.


Really? I was always taught 14.2 and under was a pony and anything over is a horse, but maybe things have moved on.


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## thedartmoorlover (Jul 23, 2019)

Clava said:


> Foxhunter said:
> 
> 
> > As said it all depends on where you live.
> ...


That's exactly what I've been told/taught.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

In the end? It is nothing but a word. Mini to Shire, they are all horses, Equus ferus caballus. I have a Morgan Horse who is 14.2, two inches shorter than the Dales Pony I ride with. I call my pony a horse, she calls her horse a pony. 

It's an arbitrary rule and as such, people in different places draw the height line wherever they want to. If it is a competition then you just have to go with whatever got made up for the class you are in.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I agree with @it's lbs not miles; a pony is a pony and a horse is a horse regardless of size. I grew up thinking that it was a size thing but that doesn't really make sense and every one cannot agree on it anyway.


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## jpenguin (Jun 18, 2015)

Clava said:


> Really? I was always taught 14.2 and under was a pony and anything over is a horse, but maybe things have moved on.


That's what I have heard/read most often too, but I've heard a lot of conflicting thoughts.


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