# Need help with harnessing new pony



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

New pony, new cart and new harness but they did not come together. I know that some things are not right but I am lost on some others. I would really appreciate some help and advice. Here is the new pony and cart and then I will show close ups of harness and how I have it hooked up.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

OH the pictures worked. I was not sure they would. I think that the shafts are too high but I can't lower them because the strap that holds the tugs is to short and the strap that is hanging down is too short to go around them to hold them down. Is that right? Also I think the noseband is too high on the bridle and should be lower? 
Oh a bit about the pony. She is a 6 y/o welsh 12 hands tall. The cart is the usual easy entry style with 24 inch wheels and 60 inch shafts.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Good start.
Bridle looks good, but the throat latch looks a hole or two too tight. and nose band looks a hole or two too loose. The throat latch is looser in driving than riding, but of course not loose enough to have the bridle slip off.

I am off to a horticulture class right now. Will chime in with others later.

Cute pony, nice cart. just a few adjustments.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

The noseband is a personal preferance, I think it is okay. The wrap straps on your harness need some lengthening some how, same with the straps that hols the shaft loops.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

The shafts should line up with the front point of his shoulder, and when they do, the seat on the cart should be level. It should not go much past the point of his shoulder, or they are too long. 

The bridle looks pretty good, but check that his eye is in the middle (top to bottom), otherwise he can look under it or over it.

There should be two finger widths between his cheek and the noseband, but it looks like it goes thru the bridle loop instead of having a separate hanger, so that may be the best you can do.

The whole turnout is really nice!!

Nancy


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

Opps not tugs ( wrong word) but the strap that holds the shaft loops is too short. It is in the last hole now. I cannot lower the shafts so that they are parallel to the ground or in line with the tugs.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

*shafts and attachment to saddle*

Here is a picture of the saddle and the strap that holds the shaft loops.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

Nancy, so I have the horse to far back? If I bring her forward then the tugs are to short to reach the single tree.
I also found out that I put the shaft ends on wrong and they should turn out instead of in. I fixed that since I took the picture.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

I think you need longer traces, and a pad of some sort for the breast collar, because it looks very thin. There are trace extenders that buckle into the trace.

Tugs is right! Do you have a leather person who could fix them? They should buckle into a strap that hangs from the saddle, then they are adjustable. Those straps that are hanging down wrap over the shaft, then buckle into the overgirth. I am sure they don't reach with your shafts that high. Been there!

Nancy


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

We are posting at the same time!! I cannot see that last picture, sorry.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Finally, the picture came through!! 


Good that you turned those shafts around! I would think you could get a leather person to make you some extenders for those to lower them. 

Since you don't appear to have rein loops on the neckstrap of the breast collar, run the lines under the strap so they are contained, otherwise they could get hung on the shaft if he tosses his head.

Looks like fun!

Nancy


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

*more harness fit pictures*

I have gotten a pad for the saddle and breast collar off eBay. A nice red set that will pad the saddle and breast collar. I had not heard of trace extenders. I don't have pictures of those yet. Here are pictures of the single tree and traces and of how I did the britching to the shafts which is all wrong.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

It looks like someone has added length to the shafts when I look at the last picture with the bolts. I would undo that and take off the improprly bent ends and see what is underneath. It might be proper size with that addition removed. Then take care of the other harness issues that everyone has brought up.


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*tug lengths*

if you have a harness maker near by maybe he could make you some back band extentions so you can lower the shafts so a buckled extention.
on your shafts i think as thay are pointing in i think thay are the wroung way round just looking at the picture.
as thay are pointing into your horse.
and well done with your turnout and with help and advice youll soon be driveing.


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*back band lengths*

green tree i did not see what you wrote about the extentions 2 minds think alike.
crumblecure thats a good idear about the shafts sorry i thought the shafts were bolt on and could be rotated but i have seen the other picture now so i jumped the gun a little there.
well the other thing you can get is a saddle pad to go under the saddle to eleviate preasure as to pack it out if need be thay are sold by zilco harnesses and thay are on e bay to.
as to the extention you can also incorparate a belly band as to stop the cart from tipping up as there could be a problem there and have him make a small loop on your girth for it to pass through it acts as a keeper and stops it slideing backwards.


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*shafts*

see if thay both point inwards if thay do un bolt them and swap them around so thay point outwards it looks like some one has bent them for some reson i mite be wroung, i hope this helps.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

I installed the shaft ends wrong. The tips are supposed to bend out and I put them on wrong but I have switched them now and they bend out. .The cart has two sets of shaft ends. One set is 60 inches and one is 72 for a bigger horse. 
I did get a pad for the breast collar and saddle. I will see if I can find a saddle or harness maker to make some extensions for the straps to hold the shaft loops and maybe some tug extensions too. I am not sure about the one loop under the shaft. What goes in it. Is it for the breeching or the shaft oops and bellyband tie down straps. I am lost in this area. It is right under where the two bolts are in the last photo.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

That is probably a "footmans loop". Your holdback (the strap that attaches to the breeching) goes through that loop to give it a solid hold. It looks like you have a "helper strap" there. I put a snap on the breeching end of that strap and leave it on the most used cart, which cuts my hitching time down. 

The holdback should also go AROUND the shaft, as well as through the footmans loop. 

I really should take some pictures for you, but I am here by myslf right now, so I don't have enough hands, sorry.

If you live close to KY, you are welcome to come over!!

Nancy


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*back band belly band*

hiya when i come back ill put up some pictures for you so you can understand.
were your tug is on your shaft the new strap (extention) will come down and your new tug will fit there the strap will continue on and will stop at a point what ill ask what is the size of your pony and and check the length of your backband so we can work out the extention.
were your girth is have a loop made on the girth it will be in the centure hanging down with a diameter of about 3 inchs which will allow a buckle to pass through 1/4 1/2 inch wide thats were the belly band will pass through.
the belly band has a buckle at each end with keepers so the extentions will buckle in and be held neatley in the keepers.
it will be a safty for you just in case your cart tips up unless theres a strap i have missed on your harness which goes back to the girth for anchorage.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

It looks as if your harness is a bit small and your cart is a bit big for your pony, but hay we all use what we have till we get what we want right?

All posters gave great advice, but I am going to try and get you harnessed one step at a time in the order, I would adjust this harness.

First thing your horse is to far back in the shafts. Move him forward till the point of the shaft is at the point of the horses shoulder.













This will now make your traces too short. To extend the traces, I would go to the hardware store and get a length of chain. get the chain that each link is an individual link and welded to close it upon itself, DO NOT get the chain where each link is linked to the next, so that if you cut one link it cuts the next link too, Do not get chain that is rated less that 500 pounds, this will most likely eliminate the chain you are not to get.

High-Tensile Chain - Bing Images

Cut chain to the length needed to make your traces long enough.
Looks like maybe 6-7 inches. Now you need to connect the chain to the end of your traces, you can use a few things, I like something called a *Quick link* best.

quick link - Bing Images

Make sure the link is closed at all times when driving.
Here are a few more connectors you can use.


















After you have connected the chain to your traces take the appropriate link at the end of the traces and attach it to the cart singletree. 

*This is very important, with using metal on metal at the single tree, tape the two together using electrical tape. *

This makes sure the link of the chain will not slip off the single tree. I actually do this on all my vehicles, every time I drive. I once was driving the Clyde with chains on the end of his traces and looked down to see we were dragging a trace, made my heart skip a beat. What saved us was the pieces of leather that go around the singletree and the cross bar of the cart, keeping the two together. It is hard to tell what kind of singletree ends you have on your cart. This quick fix will work if you have hook ends. *IT WILL NOT WORK IF YOU HAVE SWORD ENDS ON YOUR SINGLETREE, too much chance of the chain slipping off the singletree. * It looks like yours has hooks.

Just a few wraps of tape will work, you do not want to wrap it so many times you cannot get it off in an emergency. I wrap about 3 times and fold the loose end of the tape in half so it is easy to find and grip.










Here is a photo of the leather straps that keep the singletree and the crossbar together.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

To fix your shafts, as MV has said you need to get an extender for the leather strap that holds the shaft loops. OP you are correct, they are also called tugs. You will need to take your saddle and your loops to a leather man or an Amish harness maker.
It should not be too expensive, you need a buckle on a strap with a keeper or two. Do not make it too short. Measure from the top hole of your saddle strap, to where you think it need to be, then make sure there is enough leather to go through the keepers on the shaft loops. You can always make it shorter.

The bottom strap in this photo I had made to extend the backstrap on my harness. It was $9 at the Amish.


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I thought you were taking a shower
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks for the photos, Taffy Clayton! And , always carry electrical tape in the cart!

Nancy


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*driveing spares bag*

ill have to show you a driveing spares bag it contains a knife a hoof pick 3 verious size billets so if a strap brakes you can slot in a buillet and candles for your lamps as well.
and a peice of nylon bale twine can get you out of a lot of trouble to and dont forget your cell phone.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

churumbeque said:


> I thought you were taking a shower
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought you were driving to my house, or did you stop at that casino on the way? I have go straighten house before Churumbique gets here.


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*straighten the house*

sorry im a bit far away otherwise id run the vacume and muck out for you lol take care.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

OK Taffy and MIcheal and others who are so kind to help me, Let me get the chain and things and the strap extenders and post new pics. Can we hold it right here. So don't get to far ahead or I will get lost. It seems easy for you because you do it but it is very confusing to me. 
TAffy, yes the cart is a bit small for this pony and the harness a bit small. I have the other bigger pony I am training. This cart has two sets of shafts and I have bigger harness for the untrained pony. This pony is already trained to cart. I'm not sure how well since I don't really have a good hitch for her yet. I did see her demonstrated pulling a cart in traffic before I bought her but I am not a experienced judge of cart ponies.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

*last picture I have taken with my current setup*

Here is the last picture, a front view. Please make any comments you want. I will see about getting the extenders made and will post new pictures as soon as I get it all done on this same thread. Thank you all for your help. You are so kind to take the time to help me. Thank you especially Taffy for the pictures. You are spectacular.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

^^^ I think your bridle looks fine.

When you go to the Amish to get the extenders for the shaft loop drops from the saddle, check to see if you need them to make you a longer throat latch. Last time I went to the Amish harness maker, I got a synthetic throat latch for $8.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

I hope to go on Monday. I will take my whole harness set and the pictures I posted in here so they can see the pony, cart and harness together. I have a tablet that shows nice big pictures.


----------



## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*driveing harness*

hiya keep us in the loop on how your geting on it will be nice to here that your up and driveing.
many thanks.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

One more thought before you go to the Amish.
When you lower the shaft loops, check and see if you still need a piece of leather to extend the wrap straps from the girth.
Ask the harness man to show you how to attach the wrap straps, It is easier to see in person than to show over the internet. The wrap straps should go around the shafts twice, once in front of the shaft loops and once behind, then buckle back to the outer girth.

Here is a not so good example, I do not have wrap straps on my harness, so I used a shaft loop and just a plain piece of leather as an example.


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

I took pony, harness and cart to the nice Amish man. He said the harness is really to small for my pony. He could add pieces here and there but it was a cheap quality harness to start with. His suggustion was to get a larger one. So I ordered a biothane one and am eagerly waiting for it to come in. He liked my pony. I took the larger horse/pony too and her harness and he says it fits fine. I will post pictures of the new harness when I get it and hopefully you all will help me get it adjusted right on her.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Great!!! That was the best plan, Glad the harness maker was able to point you in the right direction. When are you going to get it?

I for one can't wait to see how it looks!


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

This is good!! You ordered the Biothane harness from the Amish man? I got one from an Amish man down here, and it is great. I upgraded to braided leather lines that I love, but I am not crazy about the snaps on the bit ends, and need to have buckles put on, since it has Conways.

Nancy


----------



## G8tdh0rse (Aug 14, 2012)

I do not know when it is coming in. He had one in horse size for me to see and it seems to be very nice. It has the grippy soft flexible section for the drivers hands in the lines. Stainless hardware It comes with pads because I got to pick put my own color. It seemed to be very nice quality. It was $325.

The Amish I have dealt with have been delightful. He showed me his shop. He was working on making a beautiful hand made buggy with a oak box. His wife does the upholstery. Deep tucked with buttons, firm padding, beautiful corners, my living room couch is not so nice.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Do you live close to me???? I NEED a carriage upholsterer! 

That sounds like what I paid for mine. My hands don't work very well, so I have a hard time using synthetic lines. My favorites are made in Ohio by a really nice Amish man, and they are garment leather wrapped around regular leather. THE best!

I have old Zilco harnesses in my barn that look like crud after only a couple of years, and cost over $1000.00, and my Amish harness still looks good after 5 years. The Zilco traces stay a little more flexible in the cold, but that's about it for advantages to me.

Are the traces continuous with the breast collar, or do they buckle in? 

So glad it is all going to come together for you!

Nancy


----------

