# Critique on Us, again :P



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Relax everything. You look so good on the horse, and he is so handsome! Just relax everything. Let your arms hang from your shoulders, let your elbows move with the horse's mouth, let your hands be closed, but soft, look ahead with relaxed eyes, let your leg fall softly from your hip, and your foot be softly on the stirrup.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^This is a pretty solid critique.

It's difficult to tell in this photo (because it's just a photo, and not a video) but you do look too tense.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, relax. Your arms are a bit stiff and set. You need to lift your hands to allow him to rise up more.

He also needs to go more forward, even at this walk. His front end is being held to hard, as seen in the "less" movement of his front legs as compared to his hind legs.

You want to help the horse lighten his front end. With hands so low, you are actually encouraging him to stay heavy on the forehand. I taught a clinic where this rider was having a terible time with her horse not wanting to move forward and you can see her trying to "hold" the horse's head down with her hand. (click to make the photo larger)



When I got on, I lifted my hands and went very soft with them (unlocking my shoulder and elbows so I could follow the horse's mouth consistently. Then I was able to get her to move willingly forward. She almost immediately moved into my hand and lightened up.





Overall, he is very attractive and looks like he is really trying to please you, which is three quarters of the battle. Ride him softer and more forward and you will see an improvement, I believe.

You two make a really nice team!


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## Carrie94 (Dec 2, 2014)

First thing that caught my eye - your head is down.


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

Thanks heaps guys 
One reason my head was down is because I was watching him bend his neck, as its really the first time he has  
When I usually ride, I focus on where I want to go and not down


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

*Update*

Here is an update, I tried to relax as much as I could 

I was looking sideways to my next destination.


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## kelseylane (Mar 27, 2015)

The German riding pyramid goes like this: 
Rhythm, relaxation, connection, impulsion, straightness, collection
This isn't meant to be rude, but I don't think you're asking for collection, rather connection. 

Leg to hand not hand to leg. Push your horse to the bit, don't pull him back to it. In all the pictures except the one or two, he isn't tracking up with his hind legs, so I would say increase lower leg and lift hands slightly. 

Now with that being said I love that you have pictures of him stretching over his back! It causes me to assume you are releasing properly, and searching for the bit when you drop him to the buckle. And, if this is something he is starting he doesn't have muscles to maintain so allowing him to come out of the contact/frame is totally ok! 

The last thing I would say is that I would work on bringing your leg back, and more underneath you. 

You're off to an awesome start and look like a great rider, I would love to hear your thoughts even if it's a disagreement


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

picture one:
horse is behind the leg, sucking back and being resentful

picture two:
rider gets more impulsion but gives away the reins, thus horse fall out the front. but, at least the neck is long.

picture three:

horse is stretching neck down but beginning to add back in some impulsion and lift of the back, and rider doing a nice job of allowing this.

picture four:
rider lifts horse's head back up to "collect" but loses impulsion as horse hangs back behind the bit in false collection , though very close . just a bit more relaxation and forward stretch and this would be a very nice picture.

picture five:
gaining back impulsion, horse more confident about stretching down . nice.

picture six:
very nice training level trot with horse in natural carriage, nice stride and with forward attitude to ears and body. rider sitting up nicely.

picture seven:

very sweet halt!

if you did not have such a chair seat position, throughout, all these photos would look , and work, better. but, improvement is happening!


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

Thanks heaps guys, as you may know, I am self taught so I am not very clear on some terms like "behind the leg", "behind the bit" and terms like that, can someone fill me in? 

I was watching a video where they said that dropping the head is good because it engages and works muscles that normal riding wouldn't.


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

And tinyliny, how could I improve on the 'chair seat' position? Thanks


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

for self taught, you're really doing marvelously, and you've got a super cute horse who seems well matched to you. tons of potential.


chair seat means that while you have a nice bend in your knee, it's out in front of you too far. so, your thigh is too horizontal, and your lower leg, too vertical. the actual angle of upper leg/lower leg, evident if you look at the area behind the knee, is about 90 degrees. and that's about right for a lower level rider. but, because your thigh is too horizontal, it means the hip joint is not "open" enough, thus the knee is pointing more forward, and it needs to be pointing more downward.

so, this means you need to bring your whole leg back. you do this by increasint the angle that is at your hips. take your feet out of the stirrup. let them hang. let them hang really as far down as gravity will take them. reach around to the fatty part of your thigh , on the back side in front of your buttocks, and grab it, and kind of roll it off the saddle, and upward. this will cause your whole femur to roll inward.

now, try to lift your foot into the stirrup only by raising your toe. if it's a huge stretch, then the stirrup may be one notch too short. see if your heel doesnt end up more underneath you. you'll look down and see your knee, but won't be able to see your heel since it will be back UNDER your seat, so obscured from your vision.


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

I now see what you are talking about, with my knee and thigh! Would that decrease my balance? 
Because when I canter I am not in my seat and I feel like a raise out to much, sometimes it gets so frustrating when we jump that I lift myself into a half seat but even there, I feel like I'm too far forward (like a jockey almost). Balancing in the canter is kind of hard for me, as Sam is bumpy which makes my feet fly out of the stirrup and making me nervous.


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

Also when I trot (when I lower my stirrups) my legs spread outwards as I go up and back in when I am down, and it can get difficult to hold a position and tempo.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

keep your stirrups where they are, then. 

a chair seat can also be somewhat a result of the saddle position and balance. 

can you photo your horse with saddle on, on level ground, squared up as best as possible?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

TinyTurtles said:


> I now see what you are talking about, with my knee and thigh! Would that decrease my balance?
> Because when I canter I am not in my seat and I feel like a raise out to much, sometimes it gets so frustrating when we jump that I lift myself into a half seat but even there, I feel like I'm too far forward (like a jockey almost). Balancing in the canter is kind of hard for me, as Sam is bumpy which makes my feet fly out of the stirrup and making me nervous.



that sounds like the things that result from a person "gripping up" with their leg. not enough relaxation , and when a person grips with the thigh, your energy stops right there, at the knee, and the knee becomes a pivot point, where you end up being "launched" when the horse get's bouncy. 

ask me how I know! (I struggle with this too, btw.) and recently, riding in a western saddle, and really reminding myself to SIT DOWN into the saddle, and ride the rough parts by virtue of an engaged core has made a huge difference. I am still working on the same things you are, so don't feel bad that you are dealing with this all on your own.


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

Sure, I'm going down now for a ride on both horses. So hopefully I can get some more pictures


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

*Update #2*

I am sad to say that I couldn't get any good photos 
I realized it gets darker a lot quicker now. :lol:

I lowered my stirrup by one hole and OMG, it was amazing. I have to say one of the best rides since getting him, when I sat up in a half seat, I wasn't reaching over his face and I felt balanced and my back didn't ache. The jumping was spot on and I felt like both him and I enjoyed and worked well together. 

I did take some photos of two different saddles on his back without a saddle pad, one is a dressage one and one an all purpose (what I am using). The dressage one originally came with Sam and it is quite small for me, it's also a lot heavier, I like light saddles that fit me.

Sam also was very good when cantering. In fact, the best he has been. I was also using leg aids a lot more than I usually do when riding. Sam doesn't respond very well but he is learning, just as I am.

Edit: I will add the photos soon, just waiting for my cable to be brought back from my neighbor.


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## TinyTurtles (Jan 13, 2014)

*2nd UPDATE - Jumping*

I have finally managed to get some more photos. FINALLY.

They are mostly jumping ones but also there is a leg position one. 

tinyliny, I have lowered my stirrups by two holes and the difference is amazing. My toes no longer get numb :happydance:

My boy tends to over jump by quite a bit. It always gives me a good laugh 

Now, if anyone is concerned about the jumps, it is okay. The jumps are made of scraps from around the yard. For instance the green things are milk crates to act as a base (the old metal base fell off due to rust.) and all that silver is just duct tape c: 
The poles are metal but the jump is very wide. The jump rings are L shaped and hook into the vertical poles. The wood across is completely free to fall off so no harm done 

Thanks <3


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## Asimina (Apr 21, 2013)

You have the same problem as me over jumps. I used to really stand in the stirrups, and get my butt out of the saddle- until I started riding a draft horse with the most awkward jump ever lol. The jump you're going over is fairly low, but you're coming pretty far forward out of the saddle. Your lower leg is sliding way back, showing that you don't have your weight down in your heels, but rather in your knees(your thigh is correct, but not your lower legs, because there is no pressure holding them in place, you're pinching entirely with your knee. 

The pinching with the knee is probably also contributing to how far out of the saddle you are. You want to keep your butt planted firmly in the saddle(imagine it is completely glued!) and just rotate your upper body forward on your pelvis, and let your hands go forward, or just grab mane higher up until you can get your elbows following his head smoothly. I do like how you aren't just collapsing on your horse's neck and keep your eyes up and back straight, but I think you might be compensating for your stiffer elbows and lack of release by pushing your entire body forward.

I like your position best in the second jumping picture. Your butt is over the saddle, even if it isn't planted firmly in it, and your leg has the most correct position compared to the other pictures. Try riding, at whatever gait you feel comfortable, without stirrups for a couple minutes before jumping. Just stretch your legs as far down as possible, and do some thigh lifts to get your hips more relaxed. Then your stirrups will feel ridiculously short, and it'll be a little easier to keep your weight in your heels. Even in the first pic, it looks like you aren't putting a whole lot of weight into your lower leg, and it's a little further forward than I'd like to see. For your upper body, don't try to jump with the horse. Just rotate forward slightly, not completely laying on his neck, and release with your hands and elbows. Practice over lower jumps with a crest release for a bit so you can focus on your body and leg position without worrying about your hands and his mouth.

Just to show how similar my position was to yours, here's some progress pics of my little jumping journey(over tiny logs lol, but hey, it counts!) I used to get jumped out of the tack, and my leg did basically whatever it wanted. I'd like a little more release in the 'improved' pic of me I'm using as an example, but he gets surprisingly hot cross country lol.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is the best of the three, IMO. but, with your holes down two notches, is it not TOO long for jumping? I ask because as I am not a jumper, but only ride flat, don't you want your stirrups one notch higher if you plan to jump?


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