# Update/ Critique weight?



## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-nutrition/ribby-53030/

Early March.......










Today (Mid May)




















Forgive the bad angle in the first one; I'm standing on a hill, and he's standing with his front feet in a hole. However, can you see a difference? In person I can. He definitely has more of a belly, and is wider. This is just with one extra flake a day. I started the Max E Glo today, and I'm also switching him over to senior feed, and cutting it back to 3/4 scoop, which may help with his ulcer/cribbing problem.


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## Valentina (Jul 27, 2009)

No - when was the last time an equine dentist looked in his mouth? That can cause him to not digest the food as well cause it's not chewed up enough.

Worms are another reason for weight loss - but I suggest getting more weight on him before any heavy worming cause he's pretty skinny.

Dr Toots Banner is an Equine dentist (and vet) at the University of Gainesville - so not awfully far from you.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I don't think he looks much different weight-wise. I agree with Valentina- have you had a dentist out to look at him? He doesn't look wormy to me, but I could be mistaken. I would give him free-choice forage if I was you. Rice bran and beet pulp are great for weight gain as well.

His coat looks a lot nicer in the last two pics. =)

Edit: I just read your other thread and I've never heard of alfalfa making horses hot. My two get it all the time and they're not high strung (even my idiot Thoroughbred). Alfalfa is a major source of calcium and they need a certain amount of it. I think you should try it with your guy. Moderation is the key with everything. One thing I learned from my vet is that horses are a lot smarter than people because they know what they need. Their bodies naturally crave what they need, so if a horse needs more phosphorus, he'll eat grass hay. If he's lacking calcium, he'll go for the alfalfa. My vet's modo is "I'd rather feed it and not need it than need it and not feed it." I found out through experience that it's very true.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I realize I spelled motto wrong. Brain fart.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Dentist- Came in Feburary. He even said he could have gone another 3 months, it took them five minutes to file down a couple of teeth. He did say his jaw was out of alignment, but again, that was in Feburary so it was fixed awhile ago.

Worms-Wormed him last month, I had the vet do an FEC so we wormed him with Equimax.

He's on rice bran right now, but I literally JUST started him yesterday.He's never lost any weight while I've had him, just gained it....probably 200 pounds when I first got him and put him on hay? That was last year

No option for free choice. The BO does not have the money to buy round bales (that paddock he's in isn't really big enough for one anyway) and I don't have the money either. We have one grass pasture thats taken up by our "special" horses (we have two who are on limited turn out, and they go up there) but I can see if he can be put up there for a few hours in the day.

HE specifically goes nuts on alfalfa. He's on T&A, but late last year we had to mix our own and he went from a quiet calm horse to jig and weave and paw at every available opportunity. This was when he was still getting worked, and he was just on 2 flakes a day. Its not the actual alfalfa, I'll give you that, its the jump in calories.

Just for reference, I taped him before I started the extra hay three weeks ago, and he taped at 968, so at any given time he could be 1000 pounds.


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## NordicJuniper (Jun 9, 2009)

I don't see a huge difference except that is coat is nicer. Just by looking at him I would say he would benefit at a weight of 1150 or so. His spine is pretty far out there in every picture and his ribs are still showing. Good luck getting his weight up I know it can be hard because the horse I used to ride was an older Thoroughbred who loves to drop massive weight and not gain it back very quickly. 

Maybe try some Cool Calories, Corn Oil [I think that is the oil it is] or Beet Pulp. Also even though he probably isn't older senior feed works well and I have heard good things about FatCat. 1000 pounds or less is just way too skinny for this guy.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Thanks, we also just switched him over to senior. Here's what his diet looks like....

AM:
3 flakes T&A
3/4 scoop Manna senior (about 2-3 pounds)
1/2 lb of Max E Glo

PM:
2 flakes T&A 
3/4 scoop Manna senior (about 2-3 pounds)
1/2 lb of Max E Glo

He eats it all fine, he's not a picky eater thankfully. He does also get a bran mash on Sundays.

Also, his spine could be because he has NO top line. If he put on muscle it would fill in that whole area on top of his back and right behind his shoulder.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

I don't see a great deal of difference between the two pictures apart from coat as other posters mentioned, I guess this is because the first picture was taken at the end of winter and the second picture was taken at the beginning of summer?

He doesn't look wormy in the slightest to me, actually he looks pretty healthy. Just looks like he needs some conditioning! What is the protein content of your feed? If it is around 12% or above he should build some nice muscle along the topline and he will look trim and terrific. How much weight were you looking to put on him?


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

I'm really just looking to fill his ribs in....There was some picture that I can't seem to find where he was getting pockets right in front of his hip bones, but those have filled in (you can see it in the 3rd pic) Probably a light 200 pounds, maybe less because he wouldn't be a very good rolly polly TB, his frame is too small.

The Senior feed has 12.5% protein and the Max E Glo has 13%. If I had a saddle he would totally be getting trot work done, but I'll see if I can borrow some schooling tack.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but were you the one in another thread who is boarding at the same facility as another member, also having weight issues with her horse, who had said that the hay is only when they are in the stall and they are in the paddocks (without access to hay) for "most of the day and night"? If so, that is going to be the key factor in his coming along. If that is you I am thinking of, I know that you had both said offering free choice hay is not really an option at that facility, but that is really what he needs in order to come to and hold a good condition. Is there anyway the two of you could have your horses in the same paddock (maybe with another boarder or two) so the group of you could split the cost of providing hay in the paddock during their turnout time?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

So you are feeding your hard keeper that you are trying to put weight on 4 pounds of grain, 1 pound of fat product and five flakes of mixed hay (no idea how big the flakes are weight wise) per day?

That is not very much food for a hard keeper in need of weight.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

While I think he still needs a few pounds, I do see an improvement. With our rescue horses that needed weight, most of them didn't require much but time in pasture. While free choice hay is best, I know your situation with the BO. We make our own hay and are always on a 'budget' with hay. I like MaxEGlow for weight gain and cool calories and oil is always an option. As far as his progress goes, I think you are on the right track. While we all like to see fast progress, its not healthy and will certainly make your horse a little unmanagable. Slow and steady (weight gain!) wins the race!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> Slow and steady (weight gain!) wins the race!


I do not disagree with this statement.

But in three months there should be more change than that.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Did you say anything about what kind of turn out situation he has? Looks like he is on a dry lot...if so that could be your problem. 

Always behind...I agree that there should be more but if he is on a dry lot with no grass or forage i'm a bit shocked he hasn't lost some weight. I think pasture is essential to weight gain.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

themacpack, we are at two different facilities. I am at Dover Oaks, and she is at Hidden Meadows. I just knew where her facility was because I checked it out as a possibly boarding facility for Ice (I was under the impression they had grass at the time). However, both of our facilities have dry lots, and don't feed round bales or throw extra hay all of the time (I know that mine does when we have the hay available). Thats Florida for you.

Always, one flake is probably about 3 lbs of hay, our flakes are large and dense right now, but they have gone as small as probably 1 1/2 pounds before. We do try to kind of go by weight and size, so if they're small flakes, he'll get more number wise, but volume wise it will be the same amount of hay. While he is getting less of the senior, he is actually getting more as far as the nutrition goes. On Safe choice, he was not getting any fiber or fat in his diet.

He is on night turn out, but there's really nothing that I can do about the dry lot thing. Most if not all of the boarding facilities in my area are dry lot types. We do have one grass pasture that doubles as our jump arena, I'm going to give him a few weeks and see how he does on the feed change, and then talk to the BO about possibly turning him out for a few hours on the grass. He would share it with 2 other "single turn out" horses, so he would not be on it all day, but a few hours is better than nothing.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> Always behind...I agree that there should be more but if he is on a dry lot with no grass or forage i'm a bit shocked he hasn't lost some weight. I think pasture is essential to weight gain.


Lots of horses do not have pasture. Hence the need for hay and concentrated feed. Which led to my statement that five flakes of mixed hay and four pounds of grain is not enough.



justsambam08 said:


> Always, one flake is probably about 3 lbs of hay, our flakes are large and dense right now, but they have gone as small as probably 1 1/2 pounds before. We do try to kind of go by weight and size, so if they're small flakes, he'll get more number wise, but volume wise it will be the same amount of hay. While he is getting less of the senior, he is actually getting more as far as the nutrition goes. On Safe choice, he was not getting any fiber or fat in his diet.


I think that it is more than before is irrelevant at this point. Progress is not really being made.

So 15 pounds of mixed hay per day?


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Pasture is not necessary for weight gain - but a horse that is being asked to gain weight needs constant access to forage in the form of hay if there is not pasture available.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I think that it is more than before is irrelevant at this point. Progress is not really being made.
> 
> So 15 pounds of mixed hay per day?



Of course progress hasn't been made! He's only been on the senior/Max E Glo for like 3 days. I think today would be the first day that he gets entirely senior feed. Hence my wanting to wait a few weeks and see how he fares on it before trying to change it again.

And yes, give or take a pound, he gets 15 pounds of pure mixed hay a day.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am not sure what pure mixed hay is.... how is something pure and mixed at the same time...hmmm...

I would say he still needs more hay. The average horse should get 2% of their weight in hay per day. You might be right there (because he is so thin), but if you want him to gain weight you need to up it.

You asked if we saw a difference. So I am confused why you are now saying 'of course there is no difference'.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

I don't really see a difference in weight either........I don't think 4 to 6 flakes of hay is enough if you are trying to put weight on.......how much is that in weight.......20-25lb? That amount of hay it good for maintaining weight but not for putting weight on.........I would suggest 30 to 40 lbs of hay with half of that being alfalfa and see how that goes........I would add oil and grain later.......but only if he is unable to consume that amount of hay.

Super Nova


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I am not sure what pure mixed hay is.... how is something pure and mixed at the same time...hmmm...
> 
> I would say he still needs more hay.
> 
> You asked if we saw a difference. So I am confused why you are now saying 'of course there is no difference'.


The difference was on the extra flake of hay...he's been on the extra flake for about a month.

Sorry about confusing you.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Super Nova said:


> I don't really see a difference in weight either........I don't think 4 to 6 flakes of hay is enough if you are trying to put weight on.......how much is that in weight.......20-25lb? That amount of hay it good for maintaining weight but not for putting weight on.........I would suggest 30 to 40 lbs of hay with half of that being alfalfa and see how that goes........I would add oil and grain later.......but only if he is unable to consume that amount of hay.
> 
> Super Nova



If I had the money to add 200 dollars extra onto my board, I would love to do that. And as said before, he does not go well on pure alfalfa....he turns into a race horse.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Sam, instead of paying the BO more, can you just purchase extra hay and make sure your horse gets it?

Hay in my area is going for $4.50-$5.00 for a 75 lb. square bale, and it's a good hay year. It might be something to think about, if you have access to decently priced hay.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

justsambam08 said:


> And yes, give or take a pound, he gets 15 pounds of pure mixed hay a day.


Pure mixed hay?

What type of hay is that?


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Sam, instead of paying the BO more, can you just purchase extra hay and make sure your horse gets it?
> 
> Hay in my area is going for $4.50-$5.00 a 75 lb. square bale, and it's a good hay year. It might be something to think about, if you have access to decently priced hay.


Our bales are 12.50 a bale. the bales weigh 60 lbs, so he'd be eating a bale every two days on SN's plan! 

I did look into purchasing my own bales when my board went up 75 dollars for one flake, and to feed him on my money two extra flakes a month (I added in an extra flake because they would be my bales) would be 60 dollars. That does seem like an okay price, but I'm currently unemployed.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Sam, instead of paying the BO more, can you just purchase extra hay and make sure your horse gets it?


Good idea.

If you can not then I strongly suggest either upping the senior feed or adding something like beet pulp.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

15 pounds of hay is not really a lot - a horse that needs to gain weight should be getting more than that every day. At minimum, I would suggest 2% of the goal body weight (not current body weight) in just hay (and, again, free choice would be even better)


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Good idea.
> 
> If you can not then I strongly suggest either upping the senior feed or adding something like beet pulp.


I'm first going to see if I can get him turned out on the grass pasture. I'm afraid that if I put anything else in his feed that's from the barn, his board will go up yet again. I'm happy that the Max E Glo will at least last me for a couple of months.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I have zero experience in putting weight on a horse without pasture. I am in PA and the barns that i've been at have always had access to pasture in one form or another. Our horses are on 24/7 turnout on around 40 acres. In the summer, our horses get no hay. Without experience I think that the hay is the key. All I could suggest is possibly a 'hay stretcher' I know that blue seal makes one that is pretty decent.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

This is not a horse that is going to be cheap/easy to feed and maintain in a good weight - it might be time to stop and really evaluate if you are able to provide his needs. Unfortunately, love doesn't put groceries in the gut.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Our bales are 12.50 a bale. the bales weigh 60 lbs.


Holy Moses and sweet baby Jesus, *$12.50* for a 60 pound bale? Yowza! :shock:

Have I said how glad I am that I live in rural Virginia? If not, let me tell you now!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Grass pasture would be wonderful!

Good luck on that, I hope it works out.


Beet pulp pellets are not very expensive and they last. They take longer to soak but are much easier to scoop and deal with.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

themacpac, he's been up for sale for.....4 months? I've gotten many emails, but no one wants a TB that can't jump.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

15 pounds of hay would be 2% of the body weight of a horse weighing 750 pounds -- that is why he is unable to gain weight on the current diet you are offering him.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

mac, I don't know what you want from me.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> mac, I don't know what you want from me.


I think Mac is just trying to point out to why your horse is not gaining weight. Facts of why.

You posted asking for a weight critique and people are giving you advice on how to fix the weight issue.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't "want" anything from you - I want your horse to be healthy. I am trying to explain to you why your horse is not gaining weight and what he needs in order to do so. My concern is that the nutritional needs of your horse are not being met and I am trying to provide information for you to be able to use to change that. Believe me, I know that feeding horses - especially an underweight horse - is expensive, which is why I posted that you might need to consider if you can afford the needs of this horse.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I think Mac is just trying to point out to why your horse is not gaining weight. Facts of why.
> 
> You posted asking for a weight critique and people are giving you advice on how to fix the weight issue.


I think I have been nothing but accepting of it. I know he's skinny, but I can't make money appear out of nowhere, and oh what I would buy if I could! I'm trying to work with the hand I've been dealt.

The first thing is see how he goes on the Max E Glo and senior feed. He's getting fat in his diet, which he didn't have before, and 24% is a heck of a lot better than zero. If that doesn't work, I'm going to see if I can put him on the grass, which would up his forage, in addition to everything else. Then if that doesn't work or we can't schedule it out right, I'll see about the beet pulp (which we do have a bag of currently, I don't know if anyone gets it, but its there).


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

justsambam08 said:


> I'm really just looking to fill his ribs in....


That's all he really needs! Just a little extra padding and plenty of work.

Hey, here are some cheap alternatives you can add to his feed that might be of help:

-Black sunflower seeds: Full of Omega 3 fats and also protein
-Rice bran: Extra fat and high levels of Vitamin E, good for hair and skin
-Apple Cider Vinegar: Helps with digestion.

Good luck with finding some forage for him, it sounds much more difficult over there in Florida than it is here in Texas :?


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Just found a picture of him from December. Excuse the retarded clip job, they went out on me.


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