# What would you call this color?



## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

And this brown vrs. bay is confusing to me. A lot of what you all are calling brown I always thought was bay. I've always pictured brown as this gelding,









Or this mare,











Dumb it down for me? And that makes this filly's dam a...... ?

Winter-









Summer-


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Is the first horse's sire a dilute?

(remaining horses are brown, brown, brown, imo.)


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

Tribby's sire is a palomino, 









And here she is freshly hatched,


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

My question for her was more or less buckskin or smokey brown?

The light hair at the base of her tail and slight "roaning" threwout is harder to see on the pictures.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

First horse almost looks grulla to me, but as that's not a possibility with his genetics, I'm going to guess buckskin.

Agree that last three are brown.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

The foal is a buckskin. No grulla or dun because neither parent carries the gene. Palomino/cream typically dilutes, which is what has happened in this case, causing a buckskin out of a brown/bay.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

IMO the foal is a brownskin/smokey brown.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Definitely brownskin IMO.


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## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I understand the palomino giving the 50/50 at a dilute  

Just curious as to calling her a buckskin or a smokey brown.

Thanks for opinions!


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

If she's brownskin .. then she's both! Right?


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I would wait for awhile. My buckskin filly turned all sorts of colors until she was about a year and is now definitely a buckskin


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Seeing as her dam is brown and she was born looking that dark and has shed out even darker, she is definitely a brownskin.


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## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

I though it looked like a buckskin before i even knew the father was dilute so DEFINITALLY a brown w/ cream dilute. Whichever you want to call it! Looks like what is considered a smoky buckskin in most circles. You could definitally tell it was when it was a baby too. Really light there!


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

The mare kinda looks black bey to me since she sheds out redish.
My old mare was brown and produced a buckskin with a palomino sire. 
She's always changing shades
3 days old








2 months and she got alot more sooty








At 4 months she got some golden tones








This is her as a yearling and still every spring she gets a bit darker around the eyes and sotty highlights


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Yep. I'd call it a brownskin as well. And cast my vote for brown on all the horses in question in the OP.


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

To me the filly just looks like a buckskin. But in her darker baby photos to me she looks like a sooty dun.
Also I once had a buckskin filly whose mother was a flaxen chestnut, and the sire was a black tobiano. The genes in some are passed down through generations and don't always show up on every descendant. Another example, sort of, is we had a sorrel gelding, i dont know what his sire looked like, but his mom was an average chestnut QH. His grandsire was Zippo Pine Bar, and he came out looking exactly like him. I mean, everywhere we went he turned heads, and every class we were in he got a ribbon.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> To me the filly just looks like a buckskin. But in her darker baby photos to me she looks like a sooty dun.
> Also I once had a buckskin filly whose mother was a flaxen chestnut, and the sire was a black tobiano. The genes in some are passed down through generations and don't always show up on every descendant. Another example, sort of, is we had a sorrel gelding, i dont know what his sire looked like, but his mom was an average chestnut QH. His grandsire was Zippo Pine Bar, and he came out looking exactly like him. I mean, everywhere we went he turned heads, and every class we were in he got a ribbon.


Um. Am I missing something? I wasn't aware that a black and a chestnut could produce a dilute?


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Um. Am I missing something? I wasn't aware that a black and a chestnut could produce a dilute?


Well, there was probably a gene in one that wasn't showing but carried down to her


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The gene had to be there for the foal to be a dilute. It may not be easy to see on a black horse, but it HAS to be there. It can't skip a generation, or anything like that. No way, no how. Cream is a partial dominant gene - if it's there, it shows. Only recessive genes can be passed down without expressing.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Well, there was probably a gene in one that wasn't showing but carried down to her


Sire must have been smokey black. That's the ONLY option.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah. That was my thought. No way a true black and chestnut sired a dilute.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Also, OP - as a few others have pointed out, your foal is a brown based buckskin. The dorsal is caused by foal countershading, which is being intensified by brown's habit of making foals have dark toplines.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Baha. According to Abby's papers, her dam was sired by a black and a sorrel. Turns out that her grandsire, great-grandsire, great-great-grandsire, and great-great-great-granddam are all smoky blacks, with the cream coming from a palomino. Neat!


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Clearly the black carried a cream gene, some things can be carried down w/out showing (like bay on chestnut, and cream on black, and anything under gray), others can't (like dun and gray).


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah, I found pics of her sire. There seems to be a golden/yellow tinge to his pics, but his muzzle looks almost like dark brown instead of grey or black. This is him and the filly.
[/ATTACH]


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

he doesn't look black in those pics .. where is mom?


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

Yeah... But like i said there seems to be a tinge to his pics. And he is registered as black.
Here is her mom.


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Yeah... But like i said there seems to be a tinge to his pics. And he is registered as black.
> Here is her mom.
> View attachment 107794


If he's registered black, that's the most incorrect registration I've ever seen. Tinge or not, that horse is not black. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

aha ok.
looks black with brown tinge to me really


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> aha ok.
> looks black with brown tinge to me really


The buckskin? Maybe I'm not looking at the right one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> The buckskin? Maybe I'm not looking at the right one.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


no the paint. that's the buckskin's sire


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ahh. You only posted a pic of a buckskin and a flaxen sorrel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Nokotaheaven said:


> Yeah... But like i said there seems to be a tinge to his pics. And he is registered as black.
> Here is her mom.
> View attachment 107794


Ahhh. I finally see it. Darn phone. Yeah, I can see the cream on him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nokotaheaven (Apr 11, 2012)

ThirteenAcres said:


> Ahhh. I finally see it. Darn phone. Yeah, I can see the cream on him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 ah lol. and yea i kinda see it now. im just trying to factor out the tinge in his pics


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