# Helmets and injuries - some studies (LONG!)



## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Yay... I'm glad I wear a helmet, and I'm glad I ride dressage.

Hopefully my dad doesn't see this though... he'd give me a hard time if he knew it'd been proven that horse riding is more dangerous than motorcycle riding. ^_^


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

bsms said:


> a rider sitting on a horse is elevated eight feet or more above the ground


Thats a very good point I never thought about. In MD fall from I believe 6 or 8 feet for the kid will automatically place him/her into the priority one (patient).


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

BSMS, Nicely done.
I am convinced that some basic research by a reputable equine focused institution is needed to properly quantify the risks involved in horse riding. 

We are not tackling the training of horse riders correctly. The process should start in the lecture room and safe practice must be acquired from the very beginning of the learning process in the same way as is appropriate for driving a vehicle.

Sadly I sense too often that with young women appearance is more important than safety. No riding hat can be as sexy as a head of long hair waving in the breeze. 

In Britain nowadays the wearing of the riding hat is almost compulsory - by public opinion if not in law. But spinal protection is equally a must. Further work must be done to produce a back protector which is adequate for the task but flexible enough not to interfere with the posture of the rider. I'd like to see the wearing of back protectors as compulsory. 

I am beginning to find it harder and harder to watch young novice riders learning to cope with spirited horses by trial and error rather than positive tuition. Sadly interference by me, an old man, is not usually appreciated by young people so I nowadays have a tendency to bite my tongue and say nothing. 

I can't see much change in attitude coming about until the insurance companies get tough about claims for personal injury. 
I'd also like to see us breeding horses for temperament instead of for performance.
But perhaps the most important requirement is for a horse riding safety code which is taught from the very beginning as part of basic rider training.

But nothing is going to improve until more riders start to preach 'safety'


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I think - and I've seen studies that agree - that people base their behavior on perceived risk. There is some amount of risk they are willing to accept. How much varies between people and activity. They then are willing to accept risk, as they perceive it, up to that level. If it goes over that level, they modify their behavior to get it back under, either by changing the way they do something or by changing equipment.

The two biggest surprises to me from these studies were the overall risk of riding, and just how concentrated that risk is in jumping vs flats. Apparently, riding a horse for leisure on the flats is significantly more dangerous than riding motorcycles. That may well be accurate, too - I rode motorcycles for years without a single injury, but have had one injury in 2.5 years of riding that is still causing pain in my lower back 2 years later.

However, the risk of jumping is far, far higher than the risk when riding on the flat. Some of that makes sense. A rider going over a 3' or 4' jump isn't only higher off the ground, but has a rapidly changing vector and the powerful thrust of the horse too. But I also found this enlightening:

"This would be in keeping with the speculation that in horse riding accidents there are two methods of riding: either jockey style (cross country position) with the head forward, where the rider would be more likely to sustain a cervical injury accompanied inevitably by a head injury, and classical style where the head is held high and the rider would be likely to fall on to the buttocks."

I had not thought about it, but a forward position in an English saddle would make a fall forward onto the head more likely than a dressage or western riding position where you would most likely fall on your rear and injure your pelvis or lower back.

I think that goes a long way toward explaining why many western riders don't wear helmets. They can refuse to wear helmets and still keep their perceived risk, as based on the falls of others they know about, under their level of acceptable risk. The data indicates someone jumping while wearing a helmet is at far greater risk of neck/head injury - by perhaps a factor of 20-80 - than someone who doesn't wear a helmet while riding western. Add in that western saddles are deeper and have more to help you stay on when trouble starts, and the western rider correctly believes his risk is much lower than someone jumping who wears a helmet and back protector.

If going without a helmet makes your risk go up by 100%, but jumping makes it go up 5,000%, then a western or dressage rider can go without a helmet and still be far safer than anyone jumping.

This is very important when folks start talking laws or insurance. I'd be curious how many people would support a total ban on jumping by anyone under 19, or a requirement for all jumpers to wear body protectors as well as helmets.

I'm not a fan of laws banning risky behavior. However, how many little kids would you see jumping horses if their parents had to sign a waiver saying they knew the risk of serious injury or death was 20-80 times that of not jumping, and that they assumed the risk for their child's death? Or that they understood their insurance would not cover any injury that happened while jumping?

[Edited to remove pictures of small kids jumping - they were pulled from the Internet and that probably isn't right given the subject matter]


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## GreyRay (Jun 15, 2010)

I can see it now: The human race walking around in artificial exo-skeletons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sweetaspiexlove (Mar 10, 2011)

I am glad that when I took my fall in a field, I was wearing an IRH helmet. I was 13 when it happened, but I don't remember a single thing about that day, or the following couple of months. I was brought to the hospital by ambulance. I'm lucky I was light enough for the EMTs to carry through the woods, or else I would've had to go by helicopter. From what I've been told, a tractor backfired, taking my horse by surprise. Keep in mind I had only been riding for about 2 years, was on a very spooky pony who had been known to act up in the field and he had virtually no neck to it was pretty easy to fall off of him. He went one way and I went another, right into a pile of wood chips. I got a severe concussion, my face was ripped apart and bleeding, my shoulder was out of the socket and I had bruised all the ribs on the right side of my body. This might be a bit of an exaggeration, but I might've died if I didnt wear that helmet. I'm surprised head injuries aren't more common in horse riding, I figured they would be..... hmm...


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

GreyRay said:


> I can see it now: The human race walking around in artificial exo-skeletons.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We'd need extra padding between our bones too. The only major injury I've ever gotten from riding was from hitting my saddle wrong when I went from lope to a standstill. It jammed my back and twisted a vertebra in my neck. 

I'm not going to lie, but I think it would take a significant fall for me to want to wear a helmet without requirement. Insurance now requires the wranglers at the summer camp I work at to wear them after one wrangler's horse spooked on gravel, slipped and flipped on her. She fractured her skull. (I'm also pretty sure she still doesn't wear a helmet.) 

I mean, if I jumped, I would most likely wear one. Isn't it required anyway? I don't know anything about English rules or anything. 

These facts are very interesting though. Riding isn't something you would think would be more dangerous than motorcycles, you know?


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Wow, and I'm afraid of driving a car! But I ride every day the weather is acceptable. And I wouldn't be caught dead on a motorcycle. Can you say road rash!? :lol: 

The only downside I have found to riding with a helmet is sunburn. I wish helmets came with a better brim. I know it would have to be something soft and floppy as to not cause neck injuries in a fall, but even a soft, floppy brim would be nice.

Sunburn is my number one reason NOT to wear a helmet on every ride. (I hate sunscreen because I feel like a greasy mess). 

Stupid question, but in this quote, what does "h" refer to. Hours? Probably not, because then you could ride for one hour cross-country and expect to be injured!?? So what does the "h" stand for?

* One injury for 100 h of leisure riding
* One injury for 5 h for amateur racing over jumps
* One injury for 1 h of cross-country eventing


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

BSMS
Newton's Laws of Gravity and Motion are at the centre of the problem. We have the equipment these days to measure the forces involved and if they were known and understood then maybe people would be able to visualize the potential impact of falling off a galloping horse and hitting the ground at 25 miles per hour. But I am no mathematician to illustrate the point.

Undeniably Western riding is safer because the rider sits deeper in the saddle which anyway offers a much more secure seat. In 36 years I have never fallen from a Western saddle, but I have fallen countless times from an English saddle. 

I suggest reades of this thread read Melanie Reid's articles in the Saturday editions of The Times. She describes what it is like to be paralysed from the neck down after a fall from a horse. Life as she knew it is at an end - and 
the life of her husband is irreversibly altered by the need to nurse and look after his wife, who cannot care for her self.

I am not suggesting we don't ride and compete - I am merely suggesting that we take more care to try to reduce the odds of suffering severe injury.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I wear a helmet at home when I'm training. It's not compulsory, but I do "just because". I know a few people who also train at home every day in a helmet, however have sustained some life altering injuries. One woman I know broke her neck. So I don't expect to be excluded from all injuries, as no one should. The second you are on the driveway to the barn, your chances of injury compared to a "normal" person go up at least ten fold. Such is the nature of dealing with a wild animal ten times your own weight. The same way cat owners are more susceptible to being scratched.

I really think that helmets don't serve to protect people as well as everyone might think. Nor to back protectors. Many people think if they wear these devices they become somehow more safe and do things they wouldn't otherwise. Infact, especially after being involved in vaulting, I am more and more of the belief that these safety devices serve to unbalance the rider and make them more prone to a fall of they are not used to the equipment. The most important thing we can teach our riders is how to fall and this - not my helmet - is what has saved me from any catastophic injuries in the past decade.

Education is what prevents injury. Education on how to fall, education on your limits as a rider, education on correct conditioning and maintenance of the horse, education on basic riding skills and equipment adjustment.
Having a basic liscencing program for equestrians would greatly mitigate the risks associated with horses. As well encouraging helmet use, yes, but driving down a highway going 100mph without a liscence with your seat belt on does not make you "safe".

As far as in competitions - again for those in flat work disciplines over the age of 18, it should remain a personal choice if one should wear a helmet. I feel like with correct education, people should be able to make their own informed choices. I for one am not about to ride a 4 y/o in his first show with a top hat.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Some more info is presented here:

http://img2.tapuz.co.il/forums/1_100057126.pdf

It has charts the other link misses. The h stands for hours, which seems high to me. I signed up for an account at thehorse.com, but it seems the cited paper no longer exists there. 

To be honest, the very symmetry of the numbers (* One injury for 100 h of leisure riding / * One injury for 5 h for amateur racing over jumps / * One injury for 1 h of cross-country eventing) also seems very suspicious. 100/5/1? Not 98 / 5.7 / 1.3? The roundness of the numbers is very unusual. :shock:

Still, the figures from other studies seems to support that jumping (and possibly the jump seat) involves a huge increase in risk over level riding. But I haven't found anything else that tries to quantify HOW MUCH riskier it is...everyone seems content to cite the paper that is no longer there. At least, not where the citation has it! :evil:


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> ...I really think that helmets don't serve to protect people as well as everyone might think. Nor to back protectors. Many people think if they wear these devices they become somehow more safe and do things they wouldn't otherwise. Infact, especially after being involved in vaulting, I am more and more of the belief that these safety devices serve to unbalance the rider and make them more prone to a fall of they are not used to the equipment. The most important thing we can teach our riders is how to fall and this - not my helmet - is what has saved me from any catastophic injuries in the past decade...


I agree. Perceived risk. If I think gear X protects me, I perceive that I can do something more dangerous with equal risk. I did a little time as a safety officer in a flying squadron, and this concept was well known. The USAF would improve the equipment, and the pilots would respond by flying in higher risk environments.

I also thought this was interesting: "The proximity of other horses seems to be the major problem for jockeys as their tuck and roll technique seems to ameliorate quite a lot of injuries." Part of me would love to learn how to fall off the horse and roll, while another part of me worries the learning may leave me with more sore spots than I currently have! And I don't know anyone who could teach it to me anyways...:-(


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

It's mostly vaulting people that teach stuff like that - another reason why it's really great to expand your horizons as a rider!!
I'm quite small and there was a children's vaulting club that needed someone to do some horse testing for them so I got some basic vaulting training in exchange for riding/vaulting on some horses - definitely a valuable experience!!

Before that, way back when, I started riding at a local school and they actually did more safety training than I'm now realizing is "normal" - so I did get some basic tuck and roll procedure training there (considering the amount that kids were falling off around there it was probably a good thing!).


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

The number of injuries per hours DOES seem very high. At least, I hope they are not really that high! :shock:

I trail ride all year long, and do 4-5 hour rides in the summer and (knock on wood) I have never had to be hospitalized for a horse related injury. ( I have been riding 17 years). Heck, I don't even think I have shown a doctor a horse-related injury, although there were a few I probably should have. (Some of them still ache time to time, so they were probably serious enough that they should have been looked at). 

I still can't comprehend how riding is more dangerous that motorcyling. I really find that hard to believe. But maybe it is what we perceive as dangerous, and something like a motorcyle I perceive as dangerous.

But after reading the articles I think I will be content to ride western and (hopefully) land on my butt when I do fall. :lol:


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## mustbemonroe (Mar 3, 2011)

...and it's funny that it was Courtney King-Dyes accident in the Dressage warm up that made everyone (USEA safety coordinators included) think twice about helmet rules...


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

In Britain it's compulsory by law for children either under 16 or 18 unless they're Sikh and wear a turban but if not they're legally required to wear a hat.
Someone made a point about falling. The British Racing School have a mechanical bucking horse and now run courses to teach people how to fall correctly which when you consider they were telling us that one of their racing ponies will stop mid gallop for some grass, it's a good thing they do.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Anebel, your article states much more clearly what I have been trying to say.

The compulsion of needing to acquire a licence to ride, offers a route by which the risks of riding can be brought home to the aspiring novice. Education must be part of the key to reducing the incidence of accidents. 
For example there is undoubtedly a need to understand why a horse bolts and what to do if it does - that's an educational and training issue in both the classroom and the training arena. 

I very much agree that too much protective gear inhibits the rider's ability to respond to the forces involved in riding a horse. I own a back protector and whenever I put it on it feels as though I am wearing restrictive paddy suit.
But it still won't protect the nape of my neck nor the base of my spine, my knees or my elbows. As a result I rarely wear it. If we were to look at the use of carbon fibre or thin, light, steel plate, maybe we could gain protection without losing flexibility. 

Teaching people to fall would also be beneficial - if the technique can become instinctive in the rider. 

The professional jockey is worried about the fall onto soft turf, the horse falling on him and getting protection from another race horse treading on him. 
For we amateurs the risks are different and arguably greater. Riders have to cope with the risk of hitting a hard surface such as the road, or a show jump or a wall, a hedge, a car etc. 

I just want to see the sport as a group *consider* safety more actively and as routine. After all - we are all going to fall off sooner or later - I just hope that when inevitably we do fall, we are fit to mount up again.


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## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Wow scary stuff!! I have fallen off 4 times in 10 years..My first time was last year. It was when I was jumping so I was leaning forward ( Too far forward which is why I fell off) And I landed on my behind. I tore ligaments in my back. Next time I was trotting without stirrups and landed on my feet XD Then I was bucked off a tiny pony! I was not expecting it at all..And I fell on my leg..Then the last time I was jumping again and fell on my leg..

I guess I am not going by this so! Stupid body XD But hopefully I never fall on my head. Does not mean I will never jump again! I love it! Oh and I do wear a helmet. And should start wearing a back protector but they are sooo uncomfortable!

"This would be in keeping with the speculation that in horse riding accidents there are two methods of riding: either jockey style (cross country position) with the head forward, where the rider would be more likely to sustain a cervical injury accompanied inevitably by a head injury, and classical style where the head is held high and the rider would be likely to fall on to the buttocks."


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

mustbemonroe said:


> ...and it's funny that it was Courtney King-Dyes accident in the Dressage warm up that made everyone (USEA safety coordinators included) think twice about helmet rules...


 First of all, it was not in the warm up at a show.
It was at home, she got on a young horse with no prior behavior issues, the horse forgot where its legs were and fell. It was a freak accident.
Yes it is important to wear a helmet. However, adults who are showing their horses should have a personal choice as to whether they will wear a helmet or not. If Courtney's fall has had enough of an impact on the world that people are wearing helmets regardless of rules, why do we need the rules? I think it's appaling that the USDF has to hold people's hands to get them to wear a helmet. It's common sense if you are on a young horse to wear a helmet. But a Pro or Ammy on a confirmed third/fourth level horse should have the freedom to use their discression on whether or not to wear a helmet. The other 300 training days of the year I wear one, but in the show ring I should be able to wear a top hat. Hell we might as well start riding in close contact saddles and put up some jumps.. -_-


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> The other 300 training days of the year I wear one, but in the show ring I should be able to wear a top hat. Hell we might as well start riding in close contact saddles and put up some jumps.. -_-


I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just wondering the logic here.
Was it you that once said "Dressage is all about the horse. The rider is supposed to be invisible and virtually ignored." If that's the case, how come the Dressage world is getting so upset about the helmet rules? I understand that its traditional and all, but sometimes traditions have to be changed purely for safety. I can't think of an example off the top of my head, but I know it has been done before.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Tymer said:


> ...If that's the case, how come the Dressage world is getting so upset about the helmet rules? I understand that its traditional and all, but sometimes traditions have to be changed purely for safety...


Except that requiring riders to wear helmets in the dressage performance will have no measurable impact on rider safety. The study on eventing noted: " It comes as no surprise the jumping phases accounted for 86% of the injuries. Dressage accounted for only 1% and the stable area and other accounted for 12%, again indicating the surprisingly large number of unmounted injuries."

That suggests that the number of head injuries in dressage performances is so low that cutting them 50% would have no statistically significant impact for many years. Any impact it had would be lost in the background noise of arena construction, crowd behavior, steadiness of mounts, test requirements, rider training, etc.

In fact, it indicates that they would do better to require riders to wear helmets preparing their horses, and ditch them for the performance!

My suspicion is that the organization did what most organizations do - responded without thinking because they wanted to do SOMETHING, and the effectiveness of that something is immaterial. Just think about the TSA in the USA, or any number of knee-jerk reactions I saw in the US Air Force during my career. In an organization, the appearance of doing something is more important than achieving anything...


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

bsms said:


> Except that requiring riders to wear helmets in the dressage performance will have no measurable impact on rider safety. The study on eventing noted: " It comes as no surprise the jumping phases accounted for 86% of the injuries. Dressage accounted for only 1% and the stable area and other accounted for 12%, again indicating the surprisingly large number of unmounted injuries."
> 
> That suggests that the number of head injuries in dressage performances is so low that cutting them 50% would have no statistically significant impact for many years. Any impact it had would be lost in the background noise of arena construction, crowd behavior, steadiness of mounts, test requirements, rider training, etc.
> 
> ...


That makes a lot of sense. I wonder if it would be effective, like a previous poster (I can't remember who) said, to make them required for levels 1 and 2, but optional for 3 and 4? I would imagine (I don't know, I'm not a big Dressage person) that most injuries at that level would be freak accidents. Not like level 1, where some people could be riding green horses at their first ever show. 
On a side note, it's a shame that it is frowned upon to wear vests in Hunter shows. I know a girl who would be a beautiful hunter over fences rider, and could probably win like crazy. Unfortunately, she never will ever do Hunter show. She wears a vest religiously ever since it saved her life when she was thrown over a horse's head and trampled. Anyway, I just had to note that.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Tymer, yes you are correct the focus should be on the horse - this is why dressage attire has not changed since the beginning of competition. 
As bsms has said the actual value of wearing a helmet on a confirmed dressage horse is close to nil. The last person I saw hospitalized from a fall off a particularly rank young dressage horse at a show was not wearing a helmet and suffered some pretty substantial injuries to the groin and thigh areas. She probably should have been in a helmet considering the horse she was riding, but it was her choice. People I know that have been wearing a helmet during some nasty falls riding dressage have broken their necks and backs.
The USDF should not have to hold adults' hands. Period. We are in a fairly low risk equestrian sport and traditional attire has been the norm since the inception of competition, there hasn't been a problem with rider attire that I know of until now. Go pick on bronc riders if you're really concerned about head injuries around horses and requiring helmets.

Lol bsms about the helmets in the warm up and top hats for competitions - this has been discussed in some circles and (imo) could actually be more dangerous than just allowing top hats. Imagine you're on a youngish stallion, he's out at a show and is very well behaved at home. You are campaigning him you want to show in a top hat, as he is doing 4th level to a good standard and has a good chance of winning champion. You have also paid good money for a photographer to come to the show and want nice pictures where people aren't looking at the pink stripe down the front of your helmet. You stop well away from the other horses on your way to the show ring to put on your top hat, on cement. Your groom is holding him and attempting to hold your top hat and helmet at the same time while you fix your hair (imagine you're a chick for a second). The reins slip out of her hand for a split second and he smells a nice in heat mare upwind, takes the opportunity and he spins around, whipping the reins to his poll and trots off. If you're lucky you're in balance and can reach forward to grab the reins. If not.. well you're taking a trip to the ER.
Now if you had just been allowed to warm up in the top hat, or are just grabbing the top hat from your groom and one handedly putting it on on the way.. This makes life way safer, IMO.


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> The USDF should not have to hold adults' hands. Period. We are in a fairly low risk equestrian sport and traditional attire has been the norm since the inception of competition, there hasn't been a problem with rider attire that I know of until now.
> *That's true, adults should be able to make decisions. I still think lower levels should have helmets required, especially at the children's level (is there one? Well, if not, shows that would have children in them). Then again, maybe they should leave it up to riders to be aware of the danger of their green horse and wear a helmet.*
> 
> Go pick on bronc riders if you're really concerned about head injuries around horses and requiring helmets.
> *Actually, I believe many have started using both helmets and body protectors. Looking good and seeming tough just doesn't seem worth potential death to many riders.*


I'm just a big helmet person. Never ridden without one because I've never had the opportunity. But at the same time I'm not going to stretch to the ridiculous, like it should be federal law that all riders must wear helmets all the time...That's just silly.


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## dally (Jun 1, 2010)

woaw there is a lot of opinions on here, and I have to agree with several of you guys.
In France I believe horse backriding was considered the most dangerous sport of all time, for quite a while, if it isn't still the case? not sure, but we all have to remember horse back riding deals with horses, prey animals, so even the top of the top rider CAN have an accident do to the nature of the horse. they are still consider wild animals afterall. WE, as humans, decided we were going to ride them, does not mean there are no risks. but I have to say I am more scare in my car than on a horse, because we also have to add that people driving ( car OR motorcycles) have no respect for rules. no respect for others. no respect for limits. maybe horse back riding has higher percent of death than motorcycles, what about car accident? When we have to take into account that most car accidents happens because people are too stupid or careless to understand there are risks. most car accidents could be avoid if people would think twice before speeding, passing a car to close, drinking and driving, ect...
horse back riding accident are different and as i said, based on the horse's nature, or just Luck ? maybe?

now back to the helmets, in France it is mandatory until you are 18, where you can choose to wear one. I always have been and always will, which does not mean I have less chances to get hurt pretty badly. the vest protector are mostly for the important organs we have between neck and hips. wearing one does not mean you are safe as neck, spine, head injuries are as scary as well. counting that you can also break an arm or leg, (still not the same degree of accident but still)
Helmets can help in certain situation which you can not predict obviously.

all these are based on percentage and previous falls, but does it mean the percentages will be the same few years later? not really, most falls happens because of the rider's fault or the horse's nature as I said before, but that does not stop humans. well, what will? look at our race nowadays, we jump off airplane, climb mountains, dive in the ocean, ect... everything we do have risks and it is a matter of luck in my opinion. we can easily died just stepping out of our door and getting hit by a car ( bad luck) or jumping off an airplane where the harness brakes off ( well, bad luck too) BUT WE CHOOSE TO DO ALL THESE THINGS. what if we were not taking risks? we would all be in our house, padded from everywhere, never coming out !
you know what is even worse than that ? GUNS and again, humans choose to use them and kill people.

I feel like I have more chance to get shot, or hit by a car than having a really bad fall from a horse. but again, we choose to do it


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

When people talk about helmet requirements, or laws, or requiring them for children, it is almost always done without any reference to the odds involved, and how riding style and activity impacts risk. 

Tossing a helmet in the trash doubles your risk. Taking up jumping increases it 20-100 times. It is illogical to require helmets for children, either by rule or by law, and yet allow them to jump with horses.

The odds of a western rider having a head injury while wearing a cowboy hat is only a small fraction of the odds a jump rider faces while wearing a helmet and any other protective gear one can think of wearing. A law that requires helmets but allows jumping is stupid, but then, I think most lawmakers are far to ignorant to have any business passing any restrictions on horses and riding.

Having seen these studies, if I knew a kid who wanted to take up jumping, I'd strongly encourage them to take up dressage or western riding first, and learn jumping when they were old enough to accept the risk. And being 52, I wouldn't be surprised when they ignored me!

And when I ride in a western or Australian saddle? I'll wear a helmet. I've spent a fair bit of time recently dealing with a screaming 6 month old granddaughter who explodes when Mommy isn't present, and I dearly want to live long enough to see *HER* dealing with a screaming 6 month old monster...

Oldest daughter on the left, holding my son's baby - the screamer. Daughter-in-law on the right, holding oldest daughter's QUIET baby. Very quiet Australian Shepherd looking up at the bottom.












~*~anebel~*~ said:


> ...Your groom is holding him and attempting to hold your top hat and helmet at the same time while you fix your hair (imagine you're a chick for a second)...


While both are a huge leap, imagining I'm a chick is probably easier than imagining me as a competent dressage rider - and I'm sure Mia would agree! Or are there old, slouching, chubby bifocal wearing dressage riders who bounce like a sack of potatoes in the saddle?


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Grand Ma used to say to me when I was a kid - "do what I say it is for your own good". She has been dead for 40 years but her words still occasionally ring in my ears.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

There have been several suggestions that we should practice falling off a horse. Now I do have a stunt man friend who once owned a very sparky chestnut cob which regularly went out of control and bolted off. When things got out of hand my friend often bailed out - deliberately. 
I thought he was mad.

With this thread in mind I phoned him up and asked him how he did it.
He asked why - so I told him.
He said I was mad.


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## dally (Jun 1, 2010)

Barry Godden said:


> There have been several suggestions that we should practice falling off a horse. Now I do have a stunt man friend who once owned a very sparky chestnut cob which regularly went out of control and bolted off. When things got out of hand my friend often bailed out - deliberately.
> I thought he was mad.
> 
> With this thread in mind I phoned him up and asked him how he did it.
> ...


i think it would actually be a good idea, if more riders would know how to fall correctly, maybe the percentage of injuries would drop ?
i'm curious to know now


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*Falling Off a Horse*

I spoke with my stuntman friend who has fallen off over 700 hundred horses without incurring serious injury. But as he pointed out to me, there are tricks of the trade which are not appropriate to be shared on an internet forum with others especially young riders.

He made the point very strongly that the serious accidents - especially the fatal accidents- involve the horse falling on the rider. Human bodies are not built to cope with the impact of over half a ton of horse.

He also said that it is also imperative to protect the head. Stuntmen usually can't use a protective riding hat whereas amateur riders certainly can and should do so at all times.

The stuntman is usually falling in front of a camera and that gives the opportunity for rider to inspect the condition of the ground onto which the rider will land on. What surface the horse rider might fall on influences significantly the degree of injury which might result.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

^^^!!!

I did yesterday about as close to an emergency dismount as I ever care to try. Mia had some problems with scaring at dismounts a few weeks ago (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/horse-started-jumping-sideways-dismount-79203/), so I had worked my way up to mounts, then mounts/dismounts, then mounts/ride/dismount in the round pen with her. She had done 25 dismounts without moving a muscle, so I tried her in the more open arena.

Did a couple mount/dismounts to start...didn't move a muscle. Tried to ride her, and she was wonderful...for about 5-10 minutes. Then she started winding up at every little thing. The woman who has walked her dog by 3 times/day for two years? Terrifying! A truck 3/4 mile away? Monster!

One rein stops and pulley stops would stop her...for about 2 seconds. For the next hour & forty five minutes, I tried everything I could think of to calm her down. Then my wife (who Mia really likes) came in the arena to see what was wrong, and Mia bolted. She just exploded forward. It took a half lap for me to get seated properly, then we did 2 more laps at a full gallop. One rein stop? To hell with that! She wasn't interested...and we've practiced a bajillion of them.

When I got her to a trot (by telling her "easy" - the voice cue was working better than anything else), we thought perhaps a flake of hay on the ground would distract her. No luck. That hay was poisoned, I tell you! A trap!

At that point, I was tiring faster than she was. So I did a one rein stop to a disengage...she wasn't stopping. So I figured:

1 - Smooth ground? Check!
2 - Reduced speed/disengaging horse? Check!
3 - Tony Lama boots with slick soles and good heels? Check!

I wrapped a loop around the horn to keep her turning an extra moment, then pulled my right leg over her back. My wife claims it was the fastest she's seen me move in years. I remember my foot scrapping her rump (I was beat at that point), I remember my right leg going down, and then I remember standing on the ground as she spun about 45 deg more and then got her head in front of her.

Then she turned away and bolted for 75 feet down the fence line, spun around and looked at me. She wouldn't come when called, so I walked to her and removed her bit (my reins snap on, and she was wearing a rope halter under her bridle).

I did some more work with her before returning her to the corral, but that is as close to emergency dismounting as I care to try. 

When she was galloping? That would have been asking for a dozen broken bones. When her head was forward and she could explode in 1/10 second? No thanks. When she was disengaging and needed a half second to get her feet ready and head forward? That was enough, as it turned out, for me to get my feet on the ground.

It will probably be months before I ride Mia again in the arena, let alone on a trail. I don't know if the switch to using a bit 6 weeks ago is freaking her out or if there is some other problem. I've hired the trainer who 'broke' Lilly for us, and Mia is starting her training all over (with me doing the training under the trainer). From the beginning, so we can find the holes and hopefully plug them. 95% of the time, you can ride her no bit, loose rein and she is fine - but that other 5% is getting REALLY old.

And while I was using a western saddle, I was wearing my helmet - and it was a darn good feeling helmet yesterday, even if I didn't fall!


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