# An own son of Samtyr.



## Kiara

That is great! My gelding is a grandson of Samtyr!


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## deserthorsewoman

This post is worthless without pictures, you realize that, right?


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## cakemom

Whyyyyy do you do this to us?? Photos!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

I know deserthorsewoman, I know.
He is not in my possesion yet and he is about 150-200 lbs underweight. 
So until he is on my property and I can get someone with those internet superpowers here there will be no photos. Hopefully he might be here by Thursday afternoon.
Too late for breeding season this year but with the straight Polish mares I have and the fillys star has he will be busy next year. Shalom


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## BarrelracingArabian

Yay! My old gelding an a couple of the others at the barn were grand babies of smatyr. Outlaw definitely looked it too haha.


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## deserthorsewoman

Sooooo....I found 3 from that year, on allbreed, which one is it? So we can at least look at the pedigree and get the drooling- function in gear....;-)


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## texasgal

LOL .. he ain't telling ...

Who are the three? do you have allbreed links?


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## deserthorsewoman

All 'CR' prefix....
when you pull him up click on 'report' then ' progeny'


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## dbarabians

His name is CR Rushin Sam. Tell me what you think of his dams side. Shalom


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## FeatheredFeet

Well Donald, I don't know the horse, but will tap fingers until some pictures appear. And congratulations. I'm sure he is lovely.

Lizzie


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## deserthorsewoman

Im impressed. The racing blood is clear, but also some big moving horses. 
Is his dam considered pure Polish? I found three Russian lines connected to Crabbet also..via Priboj, Pietuszok and Negativ. Probably a question for the experts.......


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## dbarabians

All his american ancestors were imported from Poland.
Like I said once I get him here and get some weight on him I will add photos. I might be embarrased to post photos of him in his present condition.
I will probably send him to the farm even though the house there is being updated it was built in 1857. I am 60 miles South east on a property of only 30 acres that I purchased years ago so I would have horses close to Dallas and not have to board.
I dont know if I want to spend the $ to make large pens here if I dont stay for longer than the year I am expecting to.

He looks like a small TB. No dish on that head. Shalom


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## QtrBel

Sounds intriguing. My first horse was an Arab/Quarter cross. The Arab side was polish. Best saddle horse I ever owned. I had horses split between Dublin and Cedar Hill so I had something to ride no matter where I was working. Can't wait for pics.


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## deserthorsewoman

dbarabians said:


> All his american ancestors were imported from Poland.
> Like I said once I get him here and get some weight on him I will add photos. I might be embarrased to post photos of him in his present condition.
> I will probably send him to the farm even though the house there is being updated it was built in 1857. I am 60 miles South east on a property of only 30 acres that I purchased years ago so I would have horses close to Dallas and not have to board.
> I dont know if I want to spend the $ to make large pens here if I dont stay for longer than the year I am expecting to.
> 
> He looks like a small TB. No dish on that head. Shalom


 Do as the " big" guys do...post head shots only;-)
Once he's filled out, give us the whole horse


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## dbarabians

He is not in my possesion yet and I will get head shots only.
Thanks for the advice deserthorsewoman. Shalom


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## texasgal

dba .. you've got less than 3 weeks before I show up with my camera... WE.WILL.MAKE.IT.WORK.....


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## deserthorsewoman

Threeeeee weeeeeeks???? Eeeeeeeeeck.....


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## tinyliny

can I ask, what does "own son of" mean?


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## texasgal

Not a grand son ... but an actual son.


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## kctop72

Congrats dba! I know he'll be in good hands
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WSArabians

Shoulda known you would tease us without photos! LOL


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## dbarabians

You women are evil and need to be destroyed.
I have been married and divorced 2 times and single for well over 20 years. I am one of those untrained males that has somehow survived this world sans female guidance. 
Cant for the life of me figure out how.
So please bear with me as a male we all now certain things in life have priority.
Photos are on the second page of a very long list. Near the bottom if I can ever find that **** list.
The own son of comment is how the old time horse people that still live here in Texas describe an offspring of a well known horse.
We texans have our own lingo. Yall know that .
Shalom


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## WSArabians

^^ That's a pretty long excuse. You probably could had pictures by now. Just sayin'. :lol: :lol:


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## cakemom

So he speaks two languages (Texan and English) but he can't give us photos? 
So- do you do like my Dad the bachelor did? Use your innocent helplessness for evil and get innocent cute waitresses and store clerks to help you? He was fantastic at that!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

Tell your father not to leak the secrets out to the enemy.
When I saw the horse and made the deal I was not thinking camera! I was thinking he is free with these bloodlines? Close the deal you idiot before they wake up or someone shows up with cash!!!!!. 
I am trading a purebred arabian gelding that I was given for free to settle an old debt along with a couple of other horses. They others were sold for nice prices and settled the debt. Now i have 3 less mouths to feed and a well bred stallion. Shalom


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## cakemom

Astute deal!! 
Dad kept the secret till his dying day! Bank tellers, waitresses and even the little old lady at Walmart all still come running up to me to tell me how they miss his conniving Italian behind!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

cakemom and you thought only women had the ability to flirt.
The only thing I have doubts about this deal is the fact he us more of a "stallion" when handling him than Star ever will be.
They use a stud chain on him and suggest that I do. I use a plain rope halter on Star and the other stallions i have owned . He should be here thursday or Sat. Shalom


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## QtrBel

Time, patience and consistency... but you know these things. In my experience a good portion of a stallions attitude is a product of their first primary handler and how they were kept. If his personality is not flawed you may be able to handle him without a chain once he has time to settle in and see how the wind blows with you. GL and yes head shots are perfectly acceptable!


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## gigem88

How exciting! Congrats!


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## texasgal

And while we wait .. here is a pic of Samtyr...


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## dbarabians

Thanks texasgal for highlighting my technical inabilities.
Smatyr passed on his looks in this stallion.
One of the reasons I am excited about the deal. I think he will add versatility and athlectic ability to Stars fillies when crossed.
I like a pretty horse. Who doesnt but I want function and structure before beauty . If I get all three I feel I have hit the jackpot. Shalom


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## texasgal

There is a racing win picture of your Stallion online.. He DOES look like Samtyr .. I'll post if you want.

The Stallion I know that is a son of Samtyr is grey.. but very much a TB looking fellow....


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## jaydee

Donald not again. You and your freakin lack of photos
This is my last and final warning to you about this
I found this, he looks lovely, really sturdy type.
http://public.fotki.com/hypoint/arabians/arabian_album_ameri/crrushinsam.html


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## dbarabians

Thanks Texasgal and jaydee yes that is him.
I could not find anything when I googled his name. Now I feel like an internet idiot wit a PhD. All those years of formal education now rendered useless by technology. ****!!!! LOL Shalom


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## jaydee

dbarabians said:


> Thanks Texasgal and jaydee yes that is him.
> I could not find anything when I googled his name. *Now I feel like an* *internet idiot wit a PhD.* All those years of formal education now rendered useless by technology. ****!!!! LOL Shalom


 You're in a big crowd there!!!
Goes some way to explaining why the kids of today have a different education than we did - they have different needs and demands, they see no point in learning half the stuff we did as no use for it - unless the whole system crashes and we get pushed back to the good old days of course!!!


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## deserthorsewoman

dbarabians said:


> Thanks Texasgal and jaydee yes that is him.
> I could not find anything when I googled his name. Now I feel like an internet idiot wit a PhD. All those years of formal education now rendered useless by technology. ****!!!! LOL Shalom


Once you have the picture posting mastered, nothing can stop you...;-)

Try Googling CR Rushin Sam.......he'll come up


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## dbarabians

I have 5 pure polish mares. the youngest is 14 and just had a nice filly. The oldest is 23 . Rushin Sam has now changed my plans for breeding who and to whom. He might even get a chance to cover a couple of mares even this late in the season. Shalom


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## jaydee

Is he used to living out with mares like your current stallion does, can you split the mares between the 2 stallions to keep them both happy or are you going to have to have a different living arrangement for him?


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## texasgal

CR Rushin Sam


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## dbarabians

Jaydee I am thinking about different arrangements. Most stallions are not as calm as Star.
Sam is more dominate and will try a fence or so I am told. I am considering placing him in stars pen at the farm that is 3 acres metal and 6 feet tall.
After I get him settled and his condition back to normal. He is skinny and needs to gain 200-250 #s He paces in his pen but is not able to visit the other horses. Here i hope to allow him the ability to smell and touch them until he gains weight.
Star was skinny from pacing in his small pen before i got him.
As long as he can see some of the mares continually and smell them he has maintained his weight and calmed down immensely . I also ensure I ride him at least 5-10 miles a day. 
Sam will get the same attention once he is in good condition. Shalom


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## jaydee

I've only been around 3 stallions as far as being responsible for them went and they were all different
My granddad had a small TB type - the sort we use in the UK for breeding a lot of show ponies and jumping ponies, he was competed & rode & travelled with mares, he lived in a field with a gelding and in foal mares and was never a bit of trouble to handle till one day my dad was rushed, got sloppy and tried to take a mare from the field when the owner came to collect her rather than take Sarry out first and he attacked my dad with no warning
The arab I had was a complete nightmare but that was why he was with us and way too dangerous to remain a stallion - plus his fertility rate had become so low he was a waste of time
The welsh cob was a darling, turned out with the 2 in foal mares, as easy to manage as a gelding and even when other mares were in season he made no bother to try to get out to them or pace the fence


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## dbarabians

Removing mares from the pastures is my main concern with allowing stallions to roam with mares.
Sam has a few scars from testing the fence but none that affect his soundness. I am going to have to be very adaptable with him and just see what works.
We will start out as simple as possible then if we must change to suit his moods.
I believe fully in allowing a horse to be a horse. He will have the ability to be as much of a stallion as I can allow him to safely be.
He is fully broke and has been used in endurance . Shalom


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## QtrBel

Ohhh, nice boy. I so miss my quarab....


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## FeatheredFeet

Donald, if he does become difficult or more of a problem than you wish to deal with, why not collect him and then geld? Maybe that would be the way to go, since you already have one whole stallion.

Lizzie


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## WSArabians

He looks super nice! 
Khade is becoming something of a handful right now too, so he's gonna get his butt in the round pen to think about a job, other then the one with his little head. I'm hoping a job will occupy his mind and put some manners on him. 
Hopefully your boy will settle down with time and lots of handling.


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## dbarabians

Lizzie I do intend to have him collected. With his bloodlines that only makes sense and is a way to market him nationally. I also want to keep him as happy as possible. 
I just read the whole link provided by deserthorswoman and my friend texasgal. They have been very helpful to this internet virgin I mean idiot. LOL
it seems the poor boy has not had a stable home for a while.
He arrives friday noon texas time.
I am now buying equine senior and more amplify. Any other suggestions for getting him back into condition. The vet will be here early next week.
he has a cut on his right hip that is healing. It is the size of a small fist and about a month old. The lady that has him is very nice but runs a riding school and has about 20 horses of her own. 
As stated he paces but his is kept apart from other horses. Here he will be able to sniff noses and eventually join a few bred mares in a pasture if things go well. Star is to be turned loose with a small harem soon also.
Wish me luck and I will keep all of you updated. Shalom


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## texasgal

He deserves your kindness, dba.


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## deserthorsewoman

DB, the senior has about the calories of alfalfa hay. 1100. So you need to feed a lot. I personally would put him on Strategy HEALTHY EDGE. There is also a Healthy Edge senior version, if you can get that. It's a lot higher in fat, sugars about the same, so gives more bang for the buck( here the senior is more expensive....not quite right IMO). 
Maybe you don't need the Amplify. Plus a little alfalfa, hay or pellets/cubes, and he should be nice and round in no time;-)


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## kctop72

We feed the healthy edge and have had great luck with it! I have a 17 yo twh and a 15 yo pinto so it seems to do the trick. They need more toning than anything.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nuisance

Blank

ETA: link to site, not a "blank" link! lol


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## dbarabians

Thanks nuisance.
Deserthosrewoman, I do like the looks of his dam.
Getting a temporary pen together for Sam.
The vet will be out Tuesday.
i know they call him Rush and I never change a horses name. But Rush is Rush Limbaugh and I refuse to be reminded of that ^%%$#, ^%$%#%, &^%$#, every day. LOL
So Sam he will be.
Thanks again for everyones advice sharing the pictures and links. Which by the way I could find only one by my self. Sharing your superpowers is a good thing. Shalom


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## texasgal

Give RUSH a kiss for me ... *wink*


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## jaydee

Sam is a good old fashioned name with character so a much better choice - I mean what sort of a name is Rush anyway?


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## dbarabians

I will call him Faceman before I ever call him Rush!!!
Faceman at least makes sense, ok some of the time. Shalom


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## texasgal

LOL ... I didn't even think about RL ... I just read the "other" thread and saw that his owners called him Rush...

I'm repeating to myself:

Sam
Sam
Sam
Sam
Sam
Sam
Sam
Sam
Sam


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## deserthorsewoman

Well, if he behaves well, you'll call him Sam, if he causes trouble, Mr.Limbaugh....:hide:


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## dbarabians

I am excited that he is arriving tomorrow.
I also think a few people here are also. Look for me to post here around 1-2 Texas time.
I have read about the controversy surrounding this stallion and He does not need joint supplements to the best of my knowledge.
I ahve even had a friend try and discourage me from accepting Sam.
She said his conformation was not good for a show horse. I replied he is a racehorse and a proven winner . If his conformation was faulty for the show ring then that is the reason I do not breed "show" horses. Shalom


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## texasgal

I look forward to hearing about him and meeting him (and you) in person.

His half brother that I know wouldn't have been looked at twice in the show ring either .... but proven race horse and race horse producer ..


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## texasgal

*picture fail*


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## jaydee

Donald from what I've seen of some ridden Arabians in the US show ring their idea of what good conformation is differs a lot from my European one
He looks a real sturdy type and that's going to surely breed a more useful all round type - very important with the rise and popularity of the sport horse and sport pony in this country


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## kctop72

Me too tg!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman

dbarabians said:


> I am excited that he is arriving tomorrow.
> I also think a few people here are also. Look for me to post here around 1-2 Texas time.
> I have read about the controversy surrounding this stallion and He does not need joint supplements to the best of my knowledge.
> I ahve even had a friend try and discourage me from accepting Sam.
> She said his conformation was not good for a show horse. I replied he is a racehorse and a proven winner . If his conformation was faulty for the show ring then that is the reason I do not breed "show" horses. Shalom


Pretty sad that show horses have different conformation from usable horses...really. The show horse, ESPECIALLY the halter horse, should be the breed ideal.....


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## dbarabians

I like my friend but she thinks the only way to do things is her way.
The only feed that is good is the kind she buys. 
She is a little too negative at times but has very good knowledge of arabian bloodlines.
Sam is coming and will remain intact as long as he is here.
He will be here in 1 hour and 30 minutes to 2 hours. Gotta go get Ziggy ready for his new home. Shalom


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## dbarabians

*Sam has arrived!*

Sam stepped out of the trailer , promptly announced his arrival, and pranced around like a king.
The mares started getting all flirty, and Star announced that he WAS the reigning monarch. They have been talking to each other for a while. Then I think they remember there is a fresh bale of hay in each of their pens and that it is close to 100*. 
He looks better than when I saw him and he is a very impressive stallion. I do need a chair under his chin to remind him that he is to listen to me. A quick tug on the lead rope and he settles down. Even in the presence of 7 willing brood mares. Shalom


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## dbarabians

OK I dont need a chair under his chin I need a chain as in stud chain. Shalom


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## kctop72

So excited for you DBA! They are all so beautiful when they prance around like Kings and Queens!!!! Good think he listens


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## dbarabians

Thanks KCtop. In order to stay in good standing with the members of this forum I might need to abuse your kindness and utilize your superpowers to post a couple of pictures.
I am going to call your Husband tomorrow and get some plans for the new pen for star and the new one now needed for Sam. 
Horses cost money!!! I need to repeat this 1,000 times every day until it sinks in. Shalom


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## kctop72

DBA, You never abuse my kindness when it comes to the horses. I can't wait to see him and was hoping you would ask so I could have an excuse We'll be out and about tomorrow then a playday starting at 5. And yes, they do cost money....alot of money. That's why I don't have a decent car to drive....it all goes to the kids and horses!


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## equiniphile

He looks gorgeous in his racing photos; can't wait to see updated pictures of him!


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## jaydee

dbarabians said:


> OK I dont need a chair under his chin I need a chain as in stud chain. Shalom


Glad you cleared that up as I had visions of you whacking him under the chin with a dining chair. Not a good thought.
Look forward to the pics
100 degrees - not nice - though I wish it would stop raining here. I need an indoor arena. Yes horses do cost money!!!


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## dbarabians

jaydee I am used to 100+ degrees. It usually arrives early like late april or early may around here. This spring has been wet and long so it is a little humid. Once the humidity burns off 100 does not feel that bad. Shalom


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## dbarabians

Oh and kctop you know you are welcome any time. Just let me know I do have to be at the emergency room tonight and tomorrow by 5. Tell the DH I said hello. Shalom


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## jaydee

6 years here now and I'm still not used to it - it creeps up here as the summer goes on and I wilt like the English flower that I am (ha ha) Who was it that said that 'ladies perspire' well I sweat - a lot.
We had a short sunny spell today so got the girls in. quick brush, tacked up Looby and the heavens opened again, 10 minutes in the ménage and I was soaked to the skin so gave up and she looked really happy about it. I think they have one of those indian rain stick things hidden somewhere
My husbands had a few good job offers from California & Texas and though the thought of escaping the CT winters appeals I just cant cope with the thought of that heat. The elder of my two sons who moved here with us spent some time in Arizona and really struggled, he's now in Colorado via Wyoming which he loves. The other one is at college in Georgia and was more than ready to come back to CT for the summer as it was heating up there


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## Golden Horse

dbarabians said:


> OK I dont need a chair under his chin I need a chain as in stud chain. Shalom


Why under? I always use a chain over the nose.....


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## kctop72

Thanks dba, just let me know when you are ready for Sams picture debut
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman

jaydee said:


> 6 years here now and I'm still not used to it - it creeps up here as the summer goes on and I wilt like the English flower that I am (ha ha) Who was it that said that 'ladies perspire' well I sweat - a lot.
> We had a short sunny spell today so got the girls in. quick brush, tacked up Looby and the heavens opened again, 10 minutes in the ménage and I was soaked to the skin so gave up and she looked really happy about it. I think they have one of those indian rain stick things hidden somewhere
> My husbands had a few good job offers from California & Texas and though the thought of escaping the CT winters appeals I just cant cope with the thought of that heat. The elder of my two sons who moved here with us spent some time in Arizona and really struggled, he's now in Colorado via Wyoming which he loves. The other one is at college in Georgia and was more than ready to come back to CT for the summer as it was heating up there


I've been told dry heat is bearable....last Friday I started having doubts about that...107....
Wyoming looking REALLY good when it's that hot here....

Donald, glad to hear you're pleasantly surprised


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## Allison Finch

I sometimes use a chain under the jaw, too.

Db, when I galloped racehorses on the track, I also galloped arabs. I had to learn to appreciate the little feisty horses. Fast? well......unpredictable? Always!!

The one thing I did like, however, most of the arab trainers let you gallop with long stirrups, which was so nice.





Still waiting to see pics of your racing guy. You need to post before shots, as I bet he fattens quickly under your care.


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## dbarabians

Golden Horse I have never used a chain before. In arabian halter classes the chain goes under the chin.
Any advice you have is appreciated. I was just concerned that over the nose might be a bit harsher than the chin and he responded really well after a couple of light yanks. 
You have more experience using one than I so if i have placed it wrong let me know. Shalom


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## texasgal

Don't you put that chain over his nose and mess up his pretty face! lol


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## Cynical25

If he responds to the jaw chain, leave it there.

Personally, I prefer a chain over the nose, and have only had a stud rear on me when the owner put the chain under the jaw. We teach to move away from pressure, so technically they *should* come down with pressure over the nose and go up with pressure down under the jaw.


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## dbarabians

Thanks cynical I got a choke collar for a dog and looped it through the bottom of a halter. I dont need anything harsh just a tug to remind him to focus on me.
Whenever he or Star are led out of their pens they arch their necks and start floating, well really prancing.
Sam has calmed down and Star is almost back to normal.
The last few days riding Star I would have sworn I was on one of those lipizzainer stallions.
I have yet to ride Sam his back bones are too prominent and I want to wait for the vet to clear him. He has an enlarged hock from an old injury. He has been ridden in a lesson program just not recently. Shalom


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## Druydess

I've seen chains used both over and under. My trainer uses them under if needed, and for show training. As was mentioned, this is how they are shown. I personally prefer rope halters.

Congrats db on another stunning Arab!! I'm sure he'll blossom under your care!


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## FeatheredFeet

jaydee said:


> 6 years here now and I'm still not used to it - it creeps up here as the summer goes on and I wilt like the English flower that I am (ha ha) Who was it that said that 'ladies perspire' well I sweat - a lot.
> We had a short sunny spell today so got the girls in. quick brush, tacked up Looby and the heavens opened again, 10 minutes in the ménage and I was soaked to the skin so gave up and she looked really happy about it. I think they have one of those indian rain stick things hidden somewhere
> My husbands had a few good job offers from California & Texas and though the thought of escaping the CT winters appeals I just cant cope with the thought of that heat. The elder of my two sons who moved here with us spent some time in Arizona and really struggled, he's now in Colorado via Wyoming which he loves. The other one is at college in Georgia and was more than ready to come back to CT for the summer as it was heating up there


I believe Jaydee, it is, "Horses sweat, gentlemen persprire and ladies glow."

I've sure done a lot of 'glowing', since I came to live in the desert of California. I hate the summers here. I never thought I would miss English weather.

Lizzie


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## dbarabians

Thanks Druydess. I hope he will add height and a long neck when crossed withb stars foal s and Star can add refinement and strong arab type.
I thought Sam was 14.3 but I think he is 15-15.1.
I am walking him about 30 minutes twice a day and will post tomorrow about what the vet says.
he is determined to breed or join the mares in the pasture. Very determined. However he is not pacing as much here as he did at the former owners. I think in a week or two he is going to settle down completely. 
Lizzie I like the California desert. I love the heat. Unfortunately it has rained a lot this spring and even this morning.... IN JUNE. I had to remind myself I was living in Texas. We are still in an extreme drought here so every drop counts.
If it rains everyday as a true texan I will not complain...aloud that is. Shalom


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## jaydee

FeatheredFeet said:


> I believe Jaydee, it is, "Horses sweat, gentlemen persprire and ladies glow."
> 
> I've sure done a lot of 'glowing', since I came to live in the desert of California. I hate the summers here. I never thought I would miss English weather.
> 
> Lizzie


 I knew it went something like that Lizzie!!!
I have obviously never been much of a lady as 'glowing' has never been my thing - but I do go at everything like a 'navvie' :lol:
I say the same about English weather especially as the heat here in CT is usually also very humid but I'm sure I look back through rosy coloured spectacles as they say and my DH constantly reminds me how much I moaned about the seemingly endless mediocre summers. I have to look at pics like this one taken at a summer show in the UK - me wearing a thick sweater and a padded jacket with a very ****ed off looking son!!
Sorry to hijack your thread Donald - so pleased things are settling down there


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## kctop72

Glad to hear things are going well Donald! !! Can't wait to see him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HGEsquire

DBArabians - please contact me via fb or email regarding your recent acquisition.
Email is: gainey arabian @ aol. com
Personal FB page: This should get you here: https://www.facebook.com/denise.b.gainey?ref=tn_tnmn

Denise Gainey


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## MyLittlePonies

Use a chain only if you need it that's all I have to say. I don't know a whole lot about Arabs but they're pretty nice.  Your boy looks pretty good. Can't wait for updates!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QtrBel

Just stopping in for a bright point in my day. Glad to hear he made it safely and things are going well. Can't wait to see pics. I worked for an Arabian stud/show barn many years ago but there was no racing stock. He looked taller than 14.2 from his pics though.


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## dbarabians

My friend kctop of the magical camera will be here tomorrow. I will also get the yearling prospect I bought so we might be able to double whammy the pics. Head shots of Sam for now will have to satisfy everyone. Just remembered I need to call kctop and set a time. Shalom


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## texasgal

Oh, dba .. it's not the camera that is so magical .. any monkey can take a picture ... it's the "communicating from the camera to the computer to the forum" that is magical....

lol


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## kctop72

Yes dba, a time would be good. I know Friday nights are normally late nights for you with the VA hotline and sleep is good on Saturday morbings
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

kctop how about noon? Or you can show up and help me laod these two fillies that are in heat and pick up Cascius. that needs to happen about 930 AM. Shalom


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## Golden Horse

dbarabians said:


> Golden Horse I have never used a chain before. In arabian halter classes the chain goes under the chin.
> Any advice you have is appreciated. I was just concerned that over the nose might be a bit harsher than the chin and he responded really well after a couple of light yanks.
> You have more experience using one than I so if i have placed it wrong let me know. Shalom


Just seeing this now, as you can see from the other responses, it is not merely a case of right and wrong, but a lot of what suits you.

While the chain is under in show classes, to me that help the head up, elongated neck look that is trying to be achieved. My personal choice when handling my stud was chain over the nose, not that I used it all the time, but when I needed it, on it went, as others have said, if you give a snap on the chain when it is over, then the nose tends to come down, and it put me in control quicker.

I have also on a couple of occasions actually ran it through his mouth and used it more like a bit, that may get me flamed, but at least I didn't get hurt by a stud who was having a momentary lapse in respect.


----------



## kctop72

Here's a nice headshot of Sam from today......










He was a very nice boy today.


----------



## QtrBel

I know how you feel Golden. I felt if I put through the mouth the flames would find me. I have never had to use a chain on any of my boys but have in halter classes. Other stallions that have personalities or a lack of manners that said a chain was necessary to remind the animal just who was in charge I used under, over and through the mouth if the other two options didn't bring the desired result. Used correctly and knowing how the horse is likely to respond (move toward or away from pressure) any of hose can add a measure of safety. Thanks kctop for the pic. He's a such pretty boy DBA. He's gone to a great home obviously with lots of potential.


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## dbarabians

Thanks golden horse for the advice. I have yet to use the chain as you can see he does well with a rope halter.
After calming down immensely since his arrival I dont think I will need to use the chain. Maybe when breeding so I will experiment with both over and under.
I hand graze him 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes in the afternoon. He looks forward to the time spent out of his pen and is starting to greet me at feeding time .
Thanks kctop for the picture. She took a lot and even petted all the foals.
maybe we can talk her into sharing those.
i am reluctant to post pictures of Sam in his current condition. I dont want any marks against the ladies reputation that has kept him for over 2 years. Without any compensation might I add. Shalom


----------



## kctop72

This is Lone Star Dancer....








This is Star's Black Magic.....








And this is Kemah....


----------



## QtrBel

I miss Texas. Thanks for sharing.


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## texasgal

That boy has some legs ...

Me.wants.the.bay....


----------



## Fahntasia

texasgal said:


> That boy has some legs ...
> 
> Me.wants.the.bay....


not if I gets im first! :twisted:

Beautiful foals, cant wait to see full conformation shots of Sam, he really is something


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## dbarabians

Thanks Fahntasia. Sam is going to be a nice addition here. I just have to figure a way to promote him. I could promote him as racebred, sporthorse or pure polish. He would really do well producing half arabians. Shalom


----------



## kctop72

Yes, breed to a stocky built QH would be very nice
Did you get your other boy home yesterday?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

No Cacuis I have to look at his papers to remember how to spell his name, has arrived today. You need to come see the future of my breeding program. While taking pictures of course.
He has never been in a trailer so after 2 hours of trying yesterday afternoon and two hours today we got him loaded. He didnt step into the trailer he jumped into it. That stock trailer is 16 feet long he made it to the front from a standstill. knocked me down and cleared me too. Shalom


----------



## kctop72

Just let me know a good time for you will be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

You can come out any time kctop. You will love this new boy and his name is SLC Cassius. Name pending. We will start his own thread here in the Stallion section. Shalom


----------



## kctop72

I may come by while dh is at roping practice if you're gonna be around?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Druydess

dbarabians said:


> No Cacuis I have to look at his papers to remember how to spell his name, has arrived today. You need to come see the future of my breeding program. While taking pictures of course.
> He has never been in a trailer so after 2 hours of trying yesterday afternoon and two hours today we got him loaded. He didnt step into the trailer he jumped into it. That stock trailer is 16 feet long he made it to the front from a standstill. knocked me down and cleared me too. Shalom


Now I need more info on this boy Donald! Who's the Sire and Dam?


----------



## texasgal

Well, I met "Sam" this weekend and snapped a few pics...

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tal...s-thread-meetup-6-a-220930/page6/#post2951626


----------



## kctop72

And here are some pics of Cassius.....


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## dbarabians

That is the future of my breeding program in that picture.
Anyone have any comments I welcome them. He is 13 months old and 14.3 hh with lots of very good breeding. Ansata , Simieon Shia, I think I spelt that wrong, The minstrel, and one line of crabbet and polish breeding about 90% egyptian breeding. He is going to be a tall boy 16hh+. Shalom


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## deserthorsewoman

Kiddo needs to grow into himself......this is about the worst growth phase for taking pics and having opinions, Donald. 
Also the pics are all from an angle....REALLY hard to tell. I'd say let him eat some and grow some and let's look at him again once he's been in your care for a little while. I'm always very reluctant to " judge" yearlings....I go by 3 days- 3 months- 3 years...;-)


----------



## dbarabians

I agree he is indeed in a very awkward growth spurt right now. 
He is much better in person.
he had yet to have his feet done, vaccinations, wormed, been tied, and numerous other things when I brought him home.
he is now vaccinated, wormed and is being taught some ground manner. I have high hopes for this boy. and he will be sent to training in the fall for halter classes. I dont really want to compete in halter but it will be a good experience for him and help get him ready for his show career as a performance horse. Shalom


----------



## Cynical25

Ooh, keep us posted when he DOES start showing - I definitely want to come watch!


----------



## kctop72

Yws please! Do you have any plans to show any of your other youngsters?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynical25

Let's fit 'em all up and DB will have a whole show string next spring!


----------



## QtrBel

All he needs is time. He certainly looks to have the potential. DB you have some really nice horses. Makes me miss my old mare and a gelding I used to ride. Maybe I need to look into another quarab or arab.


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## dbarabians

Yes the foal will be shown to get them ready for sale and to see what potential they have for breeding stock. That bay filly might do very well in halter in smaller shows locally and might even get a chance at regionals.
Cassius is going to be the one I really focus on. Shalom


----------



## WSArabians

Sam is a really nice looking boy! I think your youngster has great potential, too! 
I think all Arabs tend to go through an awkward stage at 1-2.5 years old LOL


----------



## dressagebelle

Lone Star is amazing looking. Love the facial markings. Man I miss my Arabian mare. I really hope that when time comes to get a horse again, I can find an Arabian equally as nice. Love all the pics, they are all so pretty and sweet looking. If you ever need to thin your herd... ;-)


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## dbarabians

dressagebelle those foals are only 3 months old. There is plenty of time to purchase one of them. magic is certainly for sale. No place for him in the future of this program. Kemah is going to be very athletic and Lone Star is going to be stunning with those markings her being rabicano and with a very nice arab head. We do take deposits. LOL Shalom


----------



## dressagebelle

Hahaha, if I had the money. As much as I love working with stallions, I think a mare would be better, as there aren't a lot of places that accept stallions, and I can't guarantee that we'll be able to find a place with horse property. I will definitely keep you and your horses in mind though when I am ready to start looking for a horse again. You have some gorgeous horses!


----------



## Druydess

Donald, I ahve a friend who is battling an illness and has offered me (free) a Sanadik El Shalkan son (intact) out of an El Shaklan daughter. I don't think I can work him in right now to take him. Would you be interested. You're a home I would trust and I know you love those lines.

http://www.omelarab.com/horses-of-distinction/el-shaklan


----------



## deserthorsewoman

Now poor Donald will be swamped with stallions...;-)


----------



## Druydess

deserthorsewoman said:


> Now poor Donald will be swamped with stallions...;-)


I know the feeling..LOL :wink:

Hate to see this bloodline die though.. wish I could take him..


----------



## texasgal

Druydess said:


> Donald, I ahve a friend who is battling an illness and has offered me (free) a Sanadik El Shalkan son (intact) out of an El Shaklan daughter. I don't think I can work him in right now to take him. Would you be interested. You're a home I would trust and I know you love those lines.
> 
> *El Shaklan :: Om El Arab International


 
o...m...g....


----------



## Druydess

texasgal said:


> o...m...g....


Yeah-- exactly Texasgal.. I am so kicking myself for not pulling this one off.. just no room at the inn right now..


----------



## texasgal

Where is this horse at?


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## Druydess

texasgal said:


> Where is this horse at?


NM. I can ship him, but not sure I have room for another stallion.


----------



## dbarabians

I am not at home Druydess and i too have only a little room at the inn. LOL
What age is he and where in New Mexico? Will get back with you later tonight. I might be able to stretch this one if he is a nice stallion. Shalom


----------



## deserthorsewoman

Druydess said:


> I know the feeling..LOL :wink:
> 
> Hate to see this bloodline die though.. wish I could take him..


rest assured this bloodlines will not die. Tons of them still in Europe. They have done some heavy inbreeding over the years, it had to be diluted to not to run into problems. I knew Mr. Merz, at the end he didn't outcross at all anymore, just kept breeding his horses to his horses. 
Sigi did outcross, and pretty successfully, as you can see every day;-)


----------



## Sharpie

Lovely pictures of some handsome boys. I LIKE Magic! dba- you've already got me shopping for an endurance prospect that I can't get for at least another 4 years with that little colt!


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## dbarabians

Kemah has a half brother here by the same mare. The one that looks 11 months pregnant. He is 4 years old and a half arab. He is by a Doc Olena grandson. Very spirited and has plenty of endurance. Black also. he is named Black Flame. Shalom


----------



## Druydess

deserthorsewoman said:


> rest assured this bloodlines will not die. Tons of them still in Europe. They have done some heavy inbreeding over the years, it had to be diluted to not to run into problems. I knew Mr. Merz, at the end he didn't outcross at all anymore, just kept breeding his horses to his horses.
> Sigi did outcross, and pretty successfully, as you can see every day;-)


Yes, I know they are out there.. I try to save them all...LOL :wink:

Donald - I sent you info via FB.


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## jaydee

Just remind me again Donald - but wasn't this supposed to be your relaxing peaceful retirement hobby?
If I was you I'd have to take him though!!!!


----------



## deserthorsewoman

Yeah, Donald....you must take him....I bet he's super pretty...


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## dbarabians

He is an aged stallion and with Star at 17, Sam at 19, and about 10 mares in their late teens to early 30's I need to think really hard about what to do with them in a few years. Plus at almost 54 I too am becoming a senior citizen.
It is tempting though. Very tempting and I am going to discuss this seriously with Druydess.
this is too good not to consider. yet I have to be realistic in my long term goals.. Shalom


----------



## texasgal

dbarabians said:


> .* Plus at almost 54 I too am becoming a senior citizen.*


W.H.A.T.E.V.E.R ... dude!


----------



## JulieG

Wow- what beautiful horses you have!


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## texasgal

JulieG said:


> Wow- what beautiful horses you have!


And a GREAT photographer! ... :lol:


----------



## JulieG

Texasgal- haha true! I was so amazed by the photos I forgot to mention it


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## texasgal

They were very photogenic and easy to photograph...


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## dbarabians

They maybe very photogenic but the photographer also was very skillful.
i only regret that the two mares that are truly stunning I own were not here to be photographed. Those two have exotic heads and great conformation. One is gray the other an chestnut rabicano and sabino with lots of white belly spots. Shalom


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## texasgal

Well .. that sounds like another ROADTRIP! lol


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## kctop72

I know I posted pics of them on our TX thread but I can't find them dang it! I'll look again when I get home.

The pics are awesome and TG is a much better photographer than I!!!


----------



## dbarabians

kctop you are this arabian breeders official photographer. That is written in stone i can assure you. Shalom


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## kctop72

Thanks dba but I will gladly share that honor with tg!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians

I rode Sam for the first time today.
The vet suggested it to build muscles and to give him something to do. His hock injury is not going to prevent him from being ridden.
He should not race again and no jumping but pleasure riding is OK.
He is still underweight and I do feel guilty riding him but i also want to channel all that excess energy he has.
his trot is wonderful I could not get him to just walk. In fact he bucked twice in protest becuase I held him back. We only went a 1/2 mile but he really enjoyed it.
Riding Star calmed him down considerably and I hope with a job Sam will calm down too.
In his younger days I bet he was a hand full.
I also want to report that I looked at the El Shaklan grand son Druydess so cruelly suggested to me.
He is very nice and resembles his grand sire except for his colour. That says a lot about his quality. Shalom


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## deserthorsewoman

Is he a chestnut, by any chance?
Btw, you have PM's;-)


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## Druydess

deserthorsewoman said:


> Is he a chestnut, by any chance?
> Btw, you have PM's;-)


Yes he is.. I can PM you a pic if you like deserthorsewoman. I'm just trying to protect my friend's privacy as he's fairly well known in that area.. :wink:


----------



## deserthorsewoman

Druydess said:


> Yes he is.. I can PM you a pic if you like deserthorsewoman. I'm just trying to protect my friend's privacy as he's fairly well known in that area.. :wink:


yes, please
The color guess came from not having seen any other color only grey and chestnut when you double up on El Shaklan. Shaker El Masri was chestnut, ...


----------



## dbarabians

The vet suggested that as Sam gains weight he needs exercise to help him develop muscle. So I have been riding him about 1/2 mile every other day. It is really calming him down and he is enjoying the ride. He meets me at the gate of his pen every time he sees me with the halter in my hand.
Before that I had to come to him.
He has a very nice jog . He does not relax and wants to go faster every time. He even attempted a crow hop or two.
I cant wait till he is in good condition again and I can ride him longer distances. He is well trained and very responsive to light cues and contact. I think he would have made a very nice english performance horse.
This is going to help me decide which mares to breed to him and offer his services as a stallion to outside mares. Shalom


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## QtrBel

It's nice to see he is progressing.


----------



## egrogan

I just found and read through this whole thread today. The new horse fact I learned today is that Arabs can be _racehorses_. Who knew?! 

I'm excited to sub to the thread to continue to follow Sam- can't wait to hear about his progress. And see the big reveal when full body shots are posted.


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## dbarabians

Thanks everyone for your support. Sam is improving daily. If he would relax and not pace in his pen he would be in better condition.
In fact arabians have been used for racing for centuries which only makes sense when you realize all TBs are descended from 3 arabian stallions.
I will breed Sam to Krystal Flame D next year for a straight Polish foal and one aimed at either endurance or perhaps the race track. As a daughter of Bask Flame and a son of Samtyr this should be a very nice foal. 
I think Krystal produced the best foal this year with Star. The black filly is going to be the best prospect for a performance class.
My only concern is that Sam and Krystal are both very hot horses and I expect this foal to be also. You can get too much of a good thing sometimes.
I like spirited horses. Krystal is my favorite of all because of the spirit she has. I just dont want the foal to be too hot. LOL Shalom


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## QtrBel

You'll be able to handle too hot just fine. You live in Tx don't you? My one and only this year is the self appointed King of not just the pasture but the two neighbors as well. Electric seems to have no effect on him (got that from his sire) and even at 6 weeks mom has given up. He spends more time out away from her being his own man than in being a baby. The daddy has tried to curb him and received a few sets of really obvious hoof prints in the process.


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## egrogan

dbarabians said:


> In fact arabians have been used for racing for centuries which only makes sense when you realize all TBs are descended from 3 arabian stallions.


Yep, it does make a lot of sense, for some reason I just never thought about it. I'd love to see some live Arabian racing!

My only experience with Arabs is at (what I know realized was) a terrible lesson barn as a kid. They (which I now know) were backyard breeders who kept two tiny Arab studs cooped up in standing stalls almost all day everyday. As little girls, we used to try to sneak in to the "special barn" to see these mysterious stallions, but would get in tons of trouble if we got caught poking around.


----------



## dbarabians

QTRBel I have no fear of a hot summer but the spirit of an arabian mare that is not ridden to burn off the excess can be daunting.
Krystal can find anything to shy at when she is not excercised on a regular basis. She can spin , rear, buck and bolt all at the same time. Thankfully like most arabians she cant buck too hard. LOL Shalom


----------



## Chevaux

db - you are to be commended for riding and working your stallion. All too often one sees stallions languishing in a small area not allowed to participate and be horses.


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## dbarabians

Both of my stallions are either hand walked or ridden everyday. I think that because Sam was kept isolated and not ridden he got in such poor condtion and why he paces constantly. 
By the way Sam is developing the crest of a stallion as his condition improves. Shalom


----------



## JulieG

Good to hear he's making some improvements!

You know you'll have to get us some pictures at some point...


----------



## dbarabians

There was a lot of controversy about Sam. I do not want to ignite any more.
The lady that housed Sam for 2 years free of charge and I have done nothing wrong neither want any part of the drama.
As a breeder also I do not want any public pictures that might surface later on when I least expect them to.
Once Sam is in good condition then there will be full body pictures. Shalom


----------



## deserthorsewoman

That is a very good idea, Donald. 
Too much gossip and envy in this world.....


----------



## WSArabians

Druydess said:


> Donald, I ahve a friend who is battling an illness and has offered me (free) a Sanadik El Shalkan son (intact) out of an El Shaklan daughter. I don't think I can work him in right now to take him. Would you be interested. You're a home I would trust and I know you love those lines.
> 
> *El Shaklan :: Om El Arab International


Whoa, sign me up!!


----------



## WSArabians

dbarabians said:


> They maybe very photogenic but the photographer also was very skillful.
> i only regret that the two mares that are truly stunning I own were not here to be photographed. Those two have exotic heads and great conformation. One is gray the other an chestnut rabicano and sabino with lots of white belly spots. Shalom


I want pictures!! Texasgal... I believe you are required again. :lol:


----------



## JulieG

dbarabians said:


> There was a lot of controversy about Sam. I do not want to ignite any more.
> The lady that housed Sam for 2 years free of charge and I have done nothing wrong neither want any part of the drama.
> As a breeder also I do not want any public pictures that might surface later on when I least expect them to.
> Once Sam is in good condition then there will be full body pictures. Shalom


Very smart- and in that case I don't blame you.

I'll be waiting patiently until then


----------



## dbarabians

Sam is almost ready for full body photos!!!.
Today while riding him even in 100+ heat he wanted to run on our ride. I held him back and the spirited old cuss started to buck. Not hard but he was frustrated that I have only allowed him to walk and trot.
He truly enjoys being ridden and likes to prance , snort and blow the entire time.
I would like to have ridden him in his prime . At 19 he wants to be a handful. At 10 I bet he was. Shalom


----------



## kctop72

That is awesome dba! Glad he is doing well but as we all know, age don't mean much when it comes to horses. Mt 15 yr old mare loves to act like a 2 yr old and lives to prance. Her nickname when she's like that is miss prancy dancy!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texasgal

.... and my arab ... 17. You'd never know it.


----------



## jaydee

Still keeping an eye on this thread


----------



## Bedhead

Also watching this :3

I know the lady who had him before you did, and loved him to bits and pieces; I'm glad he's being a good boy for you  I'd give him a very light riding once a month or so (I have my own to horse to work, so sadly couldn't afford to give Sam my full attention- I'm still a teenager and don't have an unlimited amount of time), and would ride him bareback with a very simple bit and he always did fabulous for me- even when there was a mare in the arena.

He's very stallion-y in his paddock, but you put a halter on him or a bit in his mouth, and he's all work mode. I can't wait to see those full body photos, and the babies! I'll have to keep an eye on any of those who end up for sale! His personality is fabulous when he's settled in his environment and I hope that passes down to his foals.


----------



## texasgal

Welcome to the forum, bedhead. It's nice to have someone else who knows him .... If you want you can come visit with us on the Texas Thread.

Cheers!

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-talk/texas-horse-friends-125927/page725/


----------



## dbarabians

by the description of Sam you just posted I can tell you spent some time with him.
He is a great horse and I do not regret taking him .
I like the lady who presented Sam to me and I intend to take lessons from her.
Anyone that would take a horse and care for him for the length of time she had him for free is a wonderful person in my book. Shalom


----------



## Bedhead

He's a lovely horse; I rode him any time I was able from July of last year up until you obtained him, but like I said earlier, I sadly don't have an unlimited amount of time :| The woes of the graduate-turned-broke-college-kid.

Ee, wonderful~ Perhaps we'll run into each other if you do. It was 3 am when I posted the first time so by 'I know her', in my sleep deprived brain that was suppose to be 'I work for her'.

I haven't ridden Ziggy personally yet, but I've watched him be worked by the man who's currently riding him, and he's a wonderful gelding; He comes up to me in paddock anytime I step outside the barn!

As much as I miss Sam (he was the first stallion I was ever allowed to _really_ work with, and helped me personally grow as a rider since it's a whole different world from riding my lovely gelding, so he'll forever have a place with me.), I am _so_ happy he's got a home and a purpose now!


----------



## WSArabians

Maybe after you have mastered pictures, we could get a video... LOL
My guys are sort of dead heads to ride now. 
My six year old acts like she is 30.
"No, Momma, I CAN'T!!":lol:


----------



## texasgal

WSArabians said:


> *Maybe after you have mastered pictures, we could get a video... LOL*
> My guys are sort of dead heads to ride now.
> My six year old acts like she is 30.
> "No, Momma, I CAN'T!!":lol:


BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! ... just sayin' ....:shock:


----------



## dbarabians

Bedhead thanks for the update on Ziggy. He is indeed a wonderful horse and he should do well in any direction he is pointed.
I just did not have a purpose for him and he really needed some more professional training.
I need to come over and talk to Sams former owner we did talk about finding a trainer for some of my other horses.
Please tell her Sam is doing fine .
WSarabians your horses are still thawing out from the Artic winter they are forced to endure. I have repeatedly offered to winter them here in Texas.
Texasgal it is not very classy to laugh at people who are internet idiots. LOL 
Besides as long as I cant post pictures you and kctop will always have the excuse to show up. Shalom


----------



## WSArabians

You can take my horses but then you have to deal with me! :shock:


----------



## dbarabians

We Texans have defeated the Comanches, the Mexican Army, were never occuppied by the Union forces during the Civil War, I think I can handle a Canadian. 
Besides that I can call the men in the little white coats to take you away for an extended visit at one of our "facilities". LOL Shalom


----------



## WSArabians

We have eight month long winters... Is that extended enough? lol


----------



## dbarabians

Eight months of winter? Is that possible? 
What are you an eskimo. Now I really must insist you send those Desert bred horses down here and start raising icelandics. Shalom


----------



## jaydee

A whole lot of my ancestors emigrated to Alberta from the mid 1800's up to the late 1950's. They tried to persuade my dad to join them and he visited many times but he & Mum were put off by the long winters


----------



## dbarabians

Sam is now booked to his first outside mare for 2014!
She is also a race winner and has produced some nice foals by a couple of stallions related to him.
She has crossed well with a few of Samtyr's grandsons. I cant wait to see what she can do with a son of his. Shalom


----------



## kctop72

Very cool dba, congrats!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Druydess

Congrats db!! Great news!


----------



## Missy May

Congrats db. Sam is handsome...and little lone star is go'n to break some hearts.:wink:


----------



## dbarabians

Thanks Missy May Lone Star Dancer's sire is also a very nice horse.
Both Sam and Star are not Main Ring Quality Halter horses but they are athletic and built solid.
Even though Star is 17 I would bet the farm he could out last any of the Top 10 Arabian halter stallions in the world in an endurance race.
Sam probably could if he did not have an injury on his left rear leg.
That is the kind of arabian I am interested in breeding.
Not a Western Pleasure, or halter champion. Those I have no use for.
Shalom


----------



## Sharpie

Db, I was only half-joking about the endurance prospect thing. You and one other breeder are on my short list when I go looking for an gelding here in a couple of years, both of you for the very reason you stated in your last post- your goal seems to be to breed horses with good solid health, heart and hooves. I have the utmost respect for that.


----------



## dbarabians

I will surely have a prospect or two for sale by then Sharpie.
Thanks for the encouraging words.
Some Arabian people have told me I am wasting my time and breeding junk.
I just tell them its not their breeding program and to look elsewhere.
I like a pretty horse but I want one that can do something.
If an arabian cannot be ridden for 20-25 miles at a time with some good conditioning then the breed standard has not been met. Shalom


----------



## dbarabians

Sam is now being ridden everyday for an hour or so. He needs to gain a few more pounds IMO before having photos taken and posted but he is progressing well. I truly enjoy riding him and he is very well trained. That is a plus.
I have decided to breed him to some of my polish mares next year.
Especially Krystal flame D a daughter of the great Bask Flame.
I cant believe I have two horses with Champions of the past so close in their pedigrees. I am blessed. 
Sharpie that endurance prospect you want might be on its way next year. LOL Shalom


----------



## Sharpie

dbarabians said:


> Sam is now being ridden everyday for an hour or so. He needs to gain a few more pounds IMO before having photos taken and posted but he is progressing well. I truly enjoy riding him and he is very well trained. That is a plus.
> I have decided to breed him to some of my polish mares next year.
> Especially Krystal flame D a daughter of the great Bask Flame.
> I cant believe I have two horses with Champions of the past so close in their pedigrees. I am blessed.
> Sharpie that endurance prospect you want might be on its way next year. LOL Shalom


I'll be subbing to your foaling threads in that case.  Works out well for me, I want a gelding, and you don't have much use for them, so we can work something out. I can't wait to see pictures of Sam, so make sure to tell him to fatten up quickly for me!


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## HGEsquire

*Awesome*



dbarabians said:


> Sam is now being ridden everyday for an hour or so. He needs to gain a few more pounds IMO before having photos taken and posted but he is progressing well. I truly enjoy riding him and he is very well trained. That is a plus.
> I have decided to breed him to some of my polish mares next year.
> Especially Krystal flame D a daughter of the great Bask Flame.
> I cant believe I have two horses with Champions of the past so close in their pedigrees. I am blessed.
> Sharpie that endurance prospect you want might be on its way next year. LOL Shalom


This is most awesome news!!! And I am in LOVE with the pedigree on this mare!!!!
Krystal Flame D Arabian

What a beautiful blend of Polish & Crabbet individuals AND she is YOUNG to boot  How about sharing a pic of this wonderfully bred mare  Big Hint!

Denise Gainey


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## dbarabians

HEG Esquire in my excitement at finding such a well bred mare I completely overlooked her dams bottom half of her pedigree.
I was told she was pure polish and have been telling everyone she is. I know stand corrected and embarrassed.
Those crabbet lines are wonderful.
Krystal is my favorite horse and is homozygous for black.
I have a 3 yo gelding out of her by a grandson of doc olena that was given to me after purchasing Krystal. 
She is the dam of the black filly born this year by my Stallion CF Midnight Star.
There is a picture or two of her here on the forum that my friend kctop took and posted for me. I am an internet idiot . There is a picture of her on my facebook page. Shalom


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## HGEsquire

Oh no ~ you are not an idiot by any stretch......We all learn something new daily! If we don't, we truly know nothing 

On her sires side via the mare BASQUINE's dam is where the Crabbet comes from and then on her dams side the mare FIXALEYN appears to be at least 90-95% Crabbet.

The Polish/Crabbet cross is one that has been known to work for many many years. Typically seen is the Polish sires side to a Crabbet dam line. 

Moons ago I purchased a PP mare that was in foal to a 100% Crabbet stallion. When asked did I want the foal I said 'nope'. The reason behind that was I had only seen/researched at that time a handful of Crabbet Sires side/Polish Dam's side Arabians where it worked. 

After foaling the mare out I must say I was glad that I did not purchase the foal as well. While a super neat neat colt, he was totally not what I would have bred myself.

Will have to take a peak around FB and here and look for pics of your mare. I can't wait to see her and her foal 

Denise Gainey


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## dbarabians

Thanks for the lesson. I know a good deal about polish lines and am learning more about Egyptian and Russian bloodlines.
Crabbet I have yet to take a hard look at. Cassius is mostly Egyptian but has one line of Crabbet from his sire. Shalom


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## Missy May

Well trained is nice, pictures are even better.:wink: I look forward to pictures of Sam.


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## Druydess

HGEsquire said:


> This is most awesome news!!! And I am in LOVE with the pedigree on this mare!!!!
> Krystal Flame D Arabian
> 
> What a beautiful blend of Polish & Crabbet individuals AND she is YOUNG to boot  How about sharing a pic of this wonderfully bred mare  Big Hint!
> 
> Denise Gainey


Donald-- when I was looking at Krystal's pedigree a while back, I don't remember if I sent this to you:
It's *Karadjordje+++ and Murrel Lacey around 1992






Hope you and Denise like it!! :wink:


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## dbarabians

If he was black and a mare you would be looking at her. She is well muscled and has his head. Not very feminine but I can live with that. She will follow you around in the pasture like that stallion and is as highstrung as he appears to be. Harness that energy and you can ride all day. We have gone 20 miles in 90 degrees and she still had plenty of juice left. She has wonderful gaits. I miss riding her even though she was the last horse to throw me. My private parts connected with the saddle horn when she zigged and I zagged. Shalom


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## WSArabians

dbarabians said:


> . My private parts connected with the saddle horn when she zigged and I zagged. Shalom


LOL
You should try bareback! Might be gentler on you!


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## HGEsquire

*Oh No*



dbarabians said:


> If he was black and a mare you would be looking at her. She is well muscled and has his head. Not very feminine but I can live with that. She will follow you around in the pasture like that stallion and is as highstrung as he appears to be. Harness that energy and you can ride all day. We have gone 20 miles in 90 degrees and she still had plenty of juice left. She has wonderful gaits. I miss riding her even though she was the last horse to throw me. *My private parts connected with the saddle horn when she zigged and I zagged.* Shalom


OUCH!!!!!

Denise Gainey


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## dbarabians

Ouch does not begin to describe the pain or embarassment. She threw me next to a road and the school bus was going by.
Then as I was clutching myself in agony a little old lady stopped by and asked if I was OK . Laughing while she did it. Shalom


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## HGEsquire

dbarabians said:


> Ouch does not begin to describe the pain or embarassment. She threw me next to a road and the school bus was going by.
> Then as I was clutching myself in agony a little old lady stopped by and asked if I was OK . Laughing while she did it. Shalom


I totally just got a visual OMG :wink:

Denise Gainey


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## Missy May

Now that little lady horse sounds like she has some real smarts, she timed it to throw you under a bus? I mean, if you can't say something nice....

you know I am kidding, db.


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## dbarabians

Sam has an abcess in his left rear hoof. One that has been festering for some time it seems. The vet was out and noted that Sam needs corrective shoeing on that hoof to build the heel back up.
Now I have a farrier that has trimmed Sam twice since I acquired him and nothing was said.
That angers me. I spare no expense to ensure these horses are healthy. We could have dealt with this earlier.
kctops husband will be trimming Sam and my horses here near Dallas from now on.
I am soaking the hoof in epsom salts and iodine to help get the infection out quicker. He has improved in a very short time so everything should be OK.
Just now he wont be ridden for a while. Something he looks forward to. Hand walking will have to suffice. 
He never stopped flirting with the mares and glaring at Star with his ears flattened against his head. Thats how I knew it wasnt too serious. He never stopped eating either. Just like any male his actions are governed by organs below his brain. Shalom


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## Missy May

Well, how sad, db. Sorry to hear that, poor Sam. Ichthammol sure is messy if ya get it on _you_ - but you might want to look into it as and addition to his tootsie care.
I trim my own, but I hear you on farriers!! Boo, his! You try so hard, and pay good money. So upsetting!


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## Fahntasia

ichthammol is FABULOUS! it stinks, it will get all over you, so have a towel or paper towel handy, but that stuff is fantastic. I used it on my mare, I had wanted to integrate her in a herd environment and she got kicked by another mare, (I got all neurotic horsy mama, and she is now in a paddock on her own with horses on either side.) Her leg swelled, I tried scarlet oil, polysporin triple, cold hosing, nothing worked until I bought the ichthammol, leg deswelled after the first day, her booboo is gone after a 5 day application twice a day.

Good luck, and I cant wait to see pics of Sam


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## dbarabians

I will purchase some today. Thanks to both of you for the suggestion. Shalom


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## nuisance

Druydess said:


> Donald-- when I was looking at Krystal's pedigree a while back, I don't remember if I sent this to you:
> It's *Karadjordje+++ and Murrel Lacey around 1992
> 
> *Karadjordje+++ and Murrel Lacey around 1992 - YouTube
> 
> Hope you and Denise like it!! :wink:


 
Curious, is that a big hernia under his abdomen, or a fat pad?


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## dbarabians

Nuisance I do not know if he had any herneias but krystal is built exactly like him and still looks 11 months pregnant even after foaling April 30th. if that was a black mare in the video you would be looking at krystal flame D. I kid you not.
That stallion not only won at halter he excelled at endurance and english . His name on the pedigree is the reason I purchased the mare. I have not been disappointed. Both foals by her may not be pretty but they are built to last.
I cant wait to see what she and Sam produce. Endurance or even racing are not beyond the realm of reality. Shalom


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## Missy May

It is a law that no foal is not called pretty.


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## kctop72

Nu, the comments on the YouTube video said he had an operation late in life and that's what caused it to look odd.


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## dbarabians

Missy May said:


> It is a law that no foal is not called pretty.


Missy may I stand corrected. I should have posted that the foals may not be very typey or main ring halter candidates .
I will go out to the pastures and apologize now. To both Flame and Kemah. Shalom


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## WSArabians

dbarabians said:


> Ouch does not begin to describe the pain or embarassment. She threw me next to a road and the school bus was going by.
> Then as I was clutching myself in agony a little old lady stopped by and asked if I was OK . Laughing while she did it. Shalom


http://c.tfster.com/images/smilies/****.gif http://c.tfster.com/images/smilies/****.gif

I'm sorry but..

http://c.tfster.com/images/smilies/****.gif


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## deserthorsewoman

WSArabians said:


> http://c.tfster.com/images/smilies/****.gif http://c.tfster.com/images/smilies/****.gif
> 
> I'm sorry but..
> 
> http://c.tfster.com/images/smilies/****.gif


right there with you.....I can sooooo picture this.......:hide:


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## WSArabians

deserthorsewoman said:


> right there with you.....I can sooooo picture this.......:hide:


LOL
I completely would have done the same thing. I definitely would have stopped, but there's no bloody way I could have kept a straight face. :lol:
Remember, Donald... I'm laughing WITH you. :lol:


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## dbarabians

You are all evil hateful women. I would have laughed to and still do today when I tell people.
Laugh with me...Laugh at me... just laugh. Thats all I ask. I would rather hear laughter and see smiles than almost anything else. Life is too short to walk around with a frown on your face. Shalom


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## dbarabians

Sam's breeding career here is now underway. He covered a pure polish mare that is a granddaughter of Bask Flame with numerous other lines to Bask in her pedigree.
She is used as an endurance mount and for cattle work.
She is well muscled and 15.2 HH. I am looking forward to seeing the results of this cross.
I am thinking of breeding Sam to a TB mare and a Daughter of Bask Flame this year. Or one of my pure polish mares for a sport horse prospect.
The daughter of Bask Flame produced such an outstanding filly with Star I am inclined to breed her back to him. Shalom


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## Fahntasia

sam pics? =D


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## Sharpie

I was going to ask that too: Does this mean he's ready for a photoshoot?


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## dbarabians

Sam is finally fat and sassy. Has been that way for months now. I discovered this feed that is complete and you can feed it free choice called the ONE AND ONLY made by a feed mill here in Texas. Those last 50-75 pounds he needed suddenly appeared.
I hope to have pictures taken soon. He needs to shed first and I will bathe him. Star too. He hasnt been bathed in the 3 years I have owned him
I dont advertise him here on the forum so I am not worried about conformation pics but I do want him to look good.
If anyone wants to breed to Sam or Star they need to see him in person.
I cannot understand anyone making a decision to breed without first seeing a stallion or what he has sired.
Sharpie I am looking closely at my herd of mares for something that might interest you. Sam is race bred and should sire some good endurance prospects. Shalom


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## HGEsquire

dbarabians said:


> Sam's breeding career here is now underway. He covered a pure polish mare that is a granddaughter of Bask Flame with numerous other lines to Bask in her pedigree.
> She is used as an endurance mount and for cattle work.
> She is well muscled and 15.2 HH. I am looking forward to seeing the results of this cross.
> I am thinking of breeding Sam to a TB mare and a Daughter of Bask Flame this year. Or one of my pure polish mares for a sport horse prospect.
> The daughter of Bask Flame produced such an outstanding filly with Star I am inclined to breed her back to him. Shalom


Dave ~ is this the Bask Flame that the mare(s) are daughter and granddaughter to??
Bask Flame Arabian

I ask as he is A LOT Polish however is not Pure Polish as his great granddam Countess of Lasma comes from old CMK (Crabbet/Maybesboro/Kellogg) breeding. The Polish/Crabbet (CMK) cross was done so successfully by Lasma all those years ago creating beautiful athletes!!! Can hardly wait to see your photos of your boy, his harem and his kiddos when they arrive 

Denise Gainey


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## dbarabians

HGEsquire said:


> Dave ~ is this the Bask Flame that the mare(s) are daughter and granddaughter to??
> Bask Flame Arabian
> 
> I ask as he is A LOT Polish however is not Pure Polish as his great granddam Countess of Lasma comes from old CMK (Crabbet/Maybesboro/Kellogg) breeding. The Polish/Crabbet (CMK) cross was done so successfully by Lasma all those years ago creating beautiful athletes!!! Can hardly wait to see your photos of your boy, his harem and his kiddos when they arrive
> 
> Denise Gainey


Thats him. I am not as knwledgable on CMK lines. All these years I thought mt program was polish. Thanks for the info. Denise Shalom Donald


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## HGEsquire

dbarabians said:


> Thats him. I am not as knwledgable on CMK lines. All these years I thought mt program was polish. Thanks for the info. Denise Shalom Donald



You have mostly Polish lines with a nice blend of Crabbet related individuals   Again, makes for beautiful athletes!!!!

Here is *Count Dorsaz (Rissalix x Shamnar)


















Bazy Tankersly of Al-Marah Arabians used him heavily in her program

Denise Gainey


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## HGEsquire

Here is a great site to gather information on the CMK horses within your program. Shoot me a message if you like to discuss further  Will be glad to help in any way I can!

The original Crabbet/Maynesboro/Kellogg mare families

Denise Gainey


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## dbarabians

HGEsquire said:


> You have mostly Polish lines with a nice blend of Crabbet related individuals   Again, makes for beautiful athletes!!!!
> 
> Here is *Count Dorsaz (Rissalix x Shamnar)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bazy Tankersly of Al-Marah Arabians used him heavily in her program
> 
> Denise Gainey


This is the type of arabian I breed Denise. 
I think the breeders of the mares I purchased were more interested in the sale than being honest with me about how pure those polish mare were.
I tend to take people at their word and if they only knew I was going to purchase the mares if they were pure polish or not maybe they would have been honest. Or like me they might have been ignorant of the bloodlines.
Thanks for the information and the link was very informative.
My herd is looking more and more diverse...and that is a good thing. 
When I started breeding arabians the Polish lines were very much in demand. Bask was still alive and his sons and daughters were winning everything there was to win. Therefore I based my breeding program on him and bred or bought mares descended from that great stallion. One of the reasons I own 
Sam is because he would be an outcross to those mares. Stars egyptian lines also provided outside blood. I will PM you later. Shalom Donald
Shalom Donald


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## dbarabians

HGEsquire said:


> You have mostly Polish lines with a nice blend of Crabbet related individuals   Again, makes for beautiful athletes!!!!
> 
> Here is *Count Dorsaz (Rissalix x Shamnar)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bazy Tankersly of Al-Marah Arabians used him heavily in her program
> 
> Denise Gainey


This is the type of arabian I breed Denise. 
I think the breeders of the mares I purchased were more interested in the sale than being honest with me about how pure those polish mare were.
I tend to take people at their word and if they only knew I was going to purchase the mares if they were pure polish or not maybe they would have been honest. Or like me they might have been ignorant of the bloodlines.
Thanks for the information and the link was very informative.
My herd is looking more and more diverse...and that is a good thing. 
When I started breeding arabians the Polish lines were very much in demand. Bask was still alive and his sons and daughters were winning everything there was to win. Therefore I based my breeding program on him and bred or bought mares descended from that great stallion. One of the reasons I own 
Sam is because he would be an outcross to those mares. Stars egyptian lines also provided outside blood. I will PM you later. Shalom Donald
Shalom Donald


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## HGEsquire

dbarabians said:


> This is the type of arabian I breed Denise.
> I think the breeders of the mares I purchased were more interested in the sale than being honest with me about how pure those polish mare were.
> I tend to take people at their word and if they only knew I was going to purchase the mares if they were pure polish or not maybe they would have been honest. Or like me they might have been ignorant of the bloodlines.
> Thanks for the information and the link was very informative.
> My herd is looking more and more diverse...and that is a good thing.
> When I started breeding arabians the Polish lines were very much in demand. Bask was still alive and his sons and daughters were winning everything there was to win. Therefore I based my breeding program on him and bred or bought mares descended from that great stallion. One of the reasons I own
> Sam is because he would be an outcross to those mares. Stars egyptian lines also provided outside blood. I will PM you later. Shalom Donald
> Shalom Donald



Donald, as someone who use to breed nothing but Pure Polish or the Russian/Polish crosses I can honestly say that it is in the best interest of most breeding programs to not lock themselves into solely preservation breeding or Straight this/Pure That. If you were to research ANY of the Purebred Arabians, regardless of their heritage claim, you will find they truly all do in fact come from one place :wink: Different regions/locations did create strain breeding and thus there are different characteristics to some degree in those from different areas. Not much different than the QH breed lines that are halter lines/reiners/cutting horses/jumpers (yes there are QH jumpers) etc.

Do not beat yourself up for not knowing. This breeding thing takes years and years of study and research that is never ending  Breeding good quality, sane minded, sound horses that will advance the breed/individual can never hurt!!! Regardless of their specific ancestry heritage....And to me, you are using solid individuals that will do just that!!! :wink:

Denise Gainey


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## dbarabians

HGEsquire said:


> Donald, as someone who use to breed nothing but Pure Polish or the Russian/Polish crosses I can honestly say that it is in the best interest of most breeding programs to not lock themselves into solely preservation breeding or Straight this/Pure That. If you were to research ANY of the Purebred Arabians, regardless of their heritage claim, you will find they truly all do in fact come from one place :wink: Different regions/locations did create strain breeding and thus there are different characteristics to some degree in those from different areas. Not much different than the QH breed lines that are halter lines/reiners/cutting horses/jumpers (yes there are QH jumpers) etc.
> 
> Do not beat yourself up for not knowing. This breeding thing takes years and years of study and research that is never ending  Breeding good quality, sane minded, sound horses that will advance the breed/individual can never hurt!!! Regardless of their specific ancestry heritage....And to me, you are using solid individuals that will do just that!!! :wink:
> 
> Denise Gainey


I agree Denise. An arabian is an arabian no matter what region they are from. I have always known this but after owning my own daughter Polish arabians I wanted to breed more just like them. 
Lately I have purchased or been gifted mares that have Crabbet, Russian, Spainich and Egyptian bloodlines. Shalom


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## QtrBel

dbarabians said:


> Lately I have purchased or been gifted mares that have Crabbet, Russian, *Spainich* and Egyptian bloodlines. Shalom


 Time to get my eyes checked again... I read that as spinich. I drool over both of your pics and miss my Quarab mare each and every time.


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## dbarabians

QtrBel said:


> Time to get my eyes checked again... I read that as spinich. I drool over both of your pics and miss my Quarab mare each and every time.


It is supposed to say Spainish. I have a bandage on my finger that interferes with my typing. I catch most of the typos and thankfully so. Y'all would think I was typing in hebrew if I did not. Shalom


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## QtrBel

DB - Hope your finger gets better soon. There seems to be quite a bit of that going around (bandaged fingers). Typically I read a typo for what it is intended and only after the fact realize it is misspelled. Can't wait to see how Sam has bloomed.


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## dbarabians

Sam failed to settle 3 of the 7 mares he bred this year. He is 20 and might begin to have low fertility.
The three mares are mine and I did not repeat the breedings as they were later in the year.
Star settles every mare during the heat he breeds them. I have not had to re breed a mare with him.
If Sam does have low fertility and as he ages it gets worse he will be put down. He is only sound for light riding and 21 next spring. He is a dominate stallion and not very kind to the mares he has been pastured with.
Now I am glad that the race mares I considered buying I was not able to close the deals or someone else beat me to them.
I hope I am wrong . I like Sam and if he were sound I would keep him as a personal mount. Shalom


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## HGEsquire

dbarabians said:


> Sam failed to settle 3 of the 7 mares he bred this year. He is 20 and might begin to have low fertility.
> The three mares are mine and I did not repeat the breedings as they were later in the year.
> Star settles every mare during the heat he breeds them. I have not had to re breed a mare with him.
> If Sam does have low fertility and as he ages it gets worse he will be put down. He is only sound for light riding and 21 next spring. He is a dominate stallion and not very kind to the mares he has been pastured with.
> Now I am glad that the race mares I considered buying I was not able to close the deals or someone else beat me to them.
> I hope I am wrong . I like Sam and if he were sound I would keep him as a personal mount. Shalom


Just so that you know, there are some fairly easy things that can be done to help a stallion increase his production of swimmers. Basically keeping him cool, feeding hay that does not increase body heat, and adding certain supplements that will be of benefit as well. Don't give up just yet 

Denise Gainey


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## dbarabians

Denise I am not giving up yet he did settle most of the mares and I am researching how to increase fertility. 
I did have him on alfalfa last spring to increase his weight. When spring hit he was ready for the mares and after breeding the first one he was even more ready for the mares. LOL
At least I dont have to rebreed any of the outside mares. .
Thanks for the advice. Shalom Donald.


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## NdAppy

I would have him collected to check his semen quality before doing anything else. There could be other factors with the mares too. Collect semen, have it evaluated and then go from there.


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## dbarabians

Thats what the plan is NDappy. I am not going to put him down tomorrow or even net year. 
If his fertility is limited and as he ages, the probability is more than likely, this is something I have to tell the owners who bring their mares.
I will not deceive a mare owner about what my stallions strengths or weaknesses are. Shalom


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## SunnyDraco

Time of year is also a factor in fertility, the hotter it is during the day the lower a stallion's viable sperm count will be. There are many explanations for a lower sperm count and may not have anything to do with age. I would look at the stallion's age as a possible factor if most mares did not settle. There are stallions still viable at 30 years old and I think Arabians tend to go longer with breeding health than other breeds. Another thing to consider, lower fertility may be caused if the stallion hasn't bred in many years (similar to mares that they can lose fertility if there is a long gap between foals)


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## dbarabians

Sam was used very lightly as a stallion and not at all for 2-3 years before I acquired him. That is my concern. 
I am also aware of the heat factor and the mares he bred of mine were in late may early June. 90+ degrees here in texas at that time. Shalom


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## SunnyDraco

dbarabians said:


> Sam was used very lightly as a stallion and not at all for 2-3 years before I acquired him. That is my concern.
> I am also aware of the heat factor and the mares he bred of mine were in late may early June. 90+ degrees here in texas at that time. Shalom


If it was cooler weather when the outside mares were covered, sounds like it was more heat related. Northern states have stallion fertility effected later in the season as it isn't consistently 90+ degrees until July or August. Stallions can still be fertile but not nearly as potent :wink:


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