# Stallion to Gelding



## GoGoJoeGranny (Dec 15, 2012)

Just wondering, do they go thru like "depression"? You can search my threads for more detail, but I had this happy-go-lucky mini, acted like a dog, total lover, just got him gelded last Monday, now, he's sad? He doesn't come when we call him (always did if he wasn't already right there), doesn't seem to enjoy our physical contact, barely finishes an apple. I have checked his temp, it's normal, I have inspected the incision site, it's healing as it should be. He's not having a health issue, but a mind issue. Is this normal? If so, do they get out of it? 
Again, our 6 year old "adopted" stallion was just like a pet, now he seems to be a really sad horse. I offered him to come in tonight (my daughter has brought him "in" a billion times), he looked at me like Nope, I'm fine and cold right here. No more "kisses", no more head "hugs", is he sad? Or is this the "new" horse we have b/c we made a choice to geld?


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

He is still healing, it could be sore and tender to move. My sister gelded her yearling colt last week on Monday as well. He moved fine at first, a little sore and a couple days ago got a bit lethargic in his regular walk exercise she does with him. Today he was better than yesterday but still a bit sore. It takes time for the healing process and for them to feel good running around again.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Is a healing process he might be sore. He also might be smart and holding a grudge. He does not come running up to you because last time he ran up to you eagerly he got gelded which in his mind is not a "oh I lost my wonderful testicles" but "ouch I am sore and you caused me physical discomfort". 

I don't think they are depressed about not being stallions anymore. I don't think a horse takes a whole lot of pride in his "horsehood". In addition, biochemically it takes 6-8 weeks for their testosterone levels to change. As far as hormones are concerned he is still a stud and will be for a few more weeks. In fact, some recently gelded horses will still have viable sperm in the farther reaches of their reproductive tract and can actually get a mare pregnant in the first few days after gelding. Which is why its advised to keep them away from mares for a few days/weeks after gelding.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If he does not return to normal pretty soon, I think that you should call your veterinarian and get the horse checked out just to be sure that there is not something else wrong with him. Your horse does not know or care that he got "fixed". He just knows that he is not feeling well.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

I would say there is infection inside the operation site and it just has not shown up yet.

It may take a week for there to be enough that you will see it oozing out, but it is there I'll bet.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

As everyone else said, he's probably sore. I'd give your vet a call and see if he things he needs to be on some antibiotics or something if you're concerned about infection.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

rookie said:


> Is a healing process he might be sore. He also might be smart and holding a grudge. *He does not come running up to you because last time he ran up to you eagerly he got gelded which in his mind is not a "oh I lost my wonderful testicles" but "ouch I am sore and you caused me physical discomfort". *
> 
> I don't think they are depressed about not being stallions anymore. I don't think a horse takes a whole lot of pride in his "horsehood". In addition, biochemically it takes 6-8 weeks for their testosterone levels to change. As far as hormones are concerned he is still a stud and will be for a few more weeks. In fact, some recently gelded horses will still have viable sperm in the farther reaches of their reproductive tract and can actually get a mare pregnant in the first few days after gelding. Which is why its advised to keep them away from mares for a few days/weeks after gelding.


um No. He was knocked out cold to be gelded and has no idea what happened.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

palogal said:


> um No. He was knocked out cold to be gelded and has no idea what happened.


Point being, last time he came to you he ended up sore and in discomfort..Not to mention he has no idea what happened during it (which is my way of thinking, not his..). Not that he'd actually remember if he wasn't knocked out..

Point being though, last time he came he left being sore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> Point being, last time he came to you he ended up sore and in discomfort


disagree. having been there for 10+ gelding surgeries, I dont think any of them assosiate being uncomfortable with humans. they are a bit bewildered, and sore, but thats it.

I think sometimes we apply human logic to things. If you went out for dinner with friends and woke up missing a body part, I doubt they would be your friends any more, but to a horse, they get a routine needle, lose conciousness, and wake up sore. there is no "oh gosh, the humans must have done it!!" moment.

the slowness coming up to you and lack of friendliness is very likely just related to them feeling 'off'. give him a few more weeks and see what happens. all the colts I've seen(and adult stallions even) were vastly happier as geldings, less moody and more focused.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I took my 5 year old stallion in to be gelded last May. He was gelded due to lack of use, not because he was a behaviour problem. He was always a total love bug, eager for hugs and kisses and even around a mare in heat, not hard to handle at all, though he was happy to "oblige" if we wanted him to. He had been hauled in the trailer with mares right next to him, no problems, no Vicks needed, nothing. 

WELL! When we picked him up after his surgery, he came out of the stall all puffed up and studly, loaded him in the trailer and then put a couple of out of season mares on and he proceeded to just about tear the trailer apart. Brought him home, put him in a nice big round pen so he could move around and keep the swelling down, and he basically gave everyone the finger when we'd go out to feed or water. Nope, no kisses, forget it, don't wanna talk to ya. We kept him separated for a month, then turned him out with his girls. He was hilarious. He walked that pasture with his ears pinned for a month. Today, he's right back to being a big old love bug and wants ALL the attention. 

My guess, and that's all it is, is that maybe the get a 'rush' of hormones when the surgery is done and then couple that with being sore/swollen and generally unhappy with life (think appendectomy pain in a human), and I think they just let us know that right now, life isn't great and they aren't liking it much. Once everything settles down and quits being sore, they come back to normal.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I think there is also merit in them not remembering the surgery. They do remember receiving the drugs prior to the surgery which can be quite traumatic. The course of events could in their mind be. I got caught, someone new and strange who smells weird and like animals in pain (ie the vet) came up and gave me a shot with/or without restraint. I go blank and I woke up in some pain. So, I am not going to get caught again because I feel lousy and last time I got caught. In addition, some of the drugs used are dissociative anesthetics which means your horse trips out a little (whose says its a good trip).


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

Ya'll are giving this animal way too much credit. He does not associate his people with pain, he's sore and crabby.

Seriously??? A shot is traumatic? Really???


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

Personally, the only reason I can say that he may (or may not, but it is a possibility) is because my old lease had gotten a nice slice on her leg and was on antibiotics for a month twice a day, intravenous. After the second day, it took 4 days to catch her because she knew you had the needle back in the barn, and she was having none of it. That horse looked at humans as the cause of her pain when she was in the barn twice a day, even though she got a good brush everytime she was in there.
After a couple more times of having to trick her into the barn and shutting the gate, she became dangerous. Not only did she not want to come like she did before, she was kicking, biting, striking, etc at anyone that came close to her. She ended up giving her a week without catching her and switching to an oral paste antibiotic...Ended up with the same result. Her wormer has to go over feed now, and you can forget giving her a shot without a twitch and stocks.

That's my point as to the fact that he COULD associate OP with pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jennakaaate (Feb 26, 2013)

My horse was gelded when he was about 1 or 2 years old, and we kept our distance from each other for about a month and a half, because he was uncomfortable, and not up for exercise or training. I went out to the barn to groom him a few times, and he came up to me every time, and he still had some of his "studdish" behavior. But he was also grouchy after being gelded, simply because it was uncomfortable. It has nothing to do with their emotions. 
With that being said, my horse wasn't "knocked out cold" while he was being gelded. It was done in the comfort of his own barn, and I even held up his head & petted him while the whole thing was being done. He never did fully fall asleep, but he was close.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

The shot may or may not be traumatic. The stocks, twitch, shanks, metal halters, shouting, swearing, rearing, kicking and slapping/punching I see on a nearly daily basis for horses getting injections indicate its an unpleasant experience.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

You need a new vet ! ^^
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

rookie said:


> The shot may or may not be traumatic. The stocks, twitch, shanks, metal halters, shouting, swearing, rearing, kicking and slapping/punching I see on a nearly daily basis for horses getting injections indicate its an unpleasant experience.


Something is seriously wrong if you need any or all of that to give a shot... :?


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

The world is full of spoiled horses and our only defense is twitches and tranqs.


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## palogal (May 30, 2008)

WSArabians said:


> Something is seriously wrong if you need any or all of that to give a shot... :?


No kidding. If gelding or a shot is traumatic, a new vet is needed.


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## GoGoJoeGranny (Dec 15, 2012)

Update on Joe, he is doing somewhat better. Had the vet check just to make sure there was no infection, and there was not. He is still standoff-ish, but at least now will enjoy a good neck rub. I am considering bringing in a friend for him, I know they are not meant to be solo animals. I was also keeping him in a smaller area per the vet, but I decided to let him have his pasture back. This seems to make him a little happier  
Thank you to everyone that replied, it's nice to know people on here are willing to share their experiences to set another's mind at ease


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

palogal said:


> No kidding. If gelding or a shot is traumatic, a new vet is needed.


And sometimes it's just the horse no matter who is doing the shots...


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

rookie said:


> The shot may or may not be traumatic. The stocks, twitch, shanks, metal halters, shouting, swearing, rearing, kicking and slapping/punching I see on a nearly daily basis for horses getting injections indicate its an unpleasant experience.


Some horses are no doubt difficult to handle, but swearing, hitting, or otherwise abusing an animal just makes things more difficult. It creates a danger for the animal and for the handlers. If a veterinarian handles an animal this way, they need training in livestock handling. The animal has to be restrained; he doesn't have to be mistreated. The horse may think that he is being mistreated when he is restrained, but swearing or hitting him is just behavior by someone that is unprofessional and can't control themselves, much less a horse.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> And sometimes it's just the horse no matter who is doing the shots...


Sometimes horses are just completes a$$hats because they don't like getting shots just like some people don't.

I was going to say a new trainer but....


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Its true sometimes when I horse rears and twists it head so it clobbers me like a fence post I swear. Most vets do tap the horses before injections to desensitize them and sometimes owners go ape nuts over you "hitting their horse". Contrary to what many owners believe your horse is not that special to your vet, particularly if it makes a job harder. When you are 12 horses deep into a 50 horse vaccine schedule you want them to behave. At the end of the day, if your horse has to be tranquilized for shots something is wrong in your horse or its training. Some goes for farrier work and show grooming/trimming.


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## dknatura (Feb 25, 2013)

I think it is quite likely that your little man is depressed - Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling is a specialist on horse behaviour and he is very critical about gelding for exactly that reason - they get wonderfully easy, but we do take a great deal of their spirit away from them by doing so. I once heard him say in an interview that the depression can be very severe when the stallion is a grown up, and that they need a lot of the right kind of 'love and affection' to get out of it again (I dont think that he means cuddling and fussing - probably more like being with them calmly, giving them a natural kind of attention in the sense of feeling what they need). 
Good luck with him - I hope you will get him into his new life successfully, so that he will begin enjoying life again!


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## dknatura (Feb 25, 2013)

It is not neccesary to restrain a stallion physically if you go about it the right way and learn to reallyunderstand and communicate with them in their own language. It takes some effort from our side yes, but it gives a totally different perspective in terms of bonding with them and gaining their respect and affection (dont misintepret please - I do not talk about the ususal natural horsemanship where it is a predator/prey relation - I talk about using genuine body language to signalize and communicate in order to acquire a mutual respect and understanding!!!). The original way of the European Knights is for me the way to go about it, and they had absolutely no problem with their stallions - on the contrary. When a stallion truly bonds he is much more eager to please than any mare or gelding - then he will do anything for his master! But it takes a greater effort to gain and deserve his respect and that is where we human beings mostly fail. This video says it beautifully:


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

dknatura said:


> It is not neccesary to restrain a stallion physically if you go about it the right way and learn to reallyunderstand and communicate with them in their own language. It takes some effort from our side yes, but it gives a totally different perspective in terms of bonding with them and gaining their respect and affection (dont misintepret please - I do not talk about the ususal natural horsemanship where it is a predator/prey relation - I talk about using genuine body language to signalize and communicate in order to acquire a mutual respect and understanding!!!). The original way of the European Knights is for me the way to go about it, and they had absolutely no problem with their stallions - on the contrary. When a stallion truly bonds he is much more eager to please than any mare or gelding - then he will do anything for his master! But it takes a greater effort to gain and deserve his respect and that is where we human beings mostly fail. This video says it beautifully: Hempfling - Horse Mirror Me - Confidence, collection, balance and high expression at liberty - YouTube


This thread wasn't about whether or not to geld. If you are against gelding a non breeding stallion, you will find that the majority around here will disagree with you. Here is a thread with multiple posters with stallion experience listing the biggest reasons why gelding is better for the horse and owner: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/not-gelding-horse-you-have-no-155832/


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