# Gelding wont stand still while saddling



## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

anyone??


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## Scoutrider (Jun 4, 2009)

You said that you've ridden him before... and he didn't try to move away from the pad and saddle? Has the tack changed? Does the saddle fit him properly in all dimensions? Could there be something painful on the bottom of the pad? Is there any reason why he would suddenly not want the saddle on his back? If this is a new development, then something has changed. He may have rolled funny in his pasture, and so is sore to saddle, who knows... 

If you can rule out pain/discomfort... Have you done any sacking out/desensitizing with him? Some horses just need more time taken with others to get totally comfortable with the saddle/pad moving around them. Something that helped my nervous MorganX was to take a scary object and walk away from him, letting him follow behind me on the lead rope. Shoot, at one time he was deathly afraid of a plastic deck chair. I walked around my arena for 20 minutes carrying that chair, horse following with buggy eyes. Did the trick, though... 

Anyway, if it's a totally new behavior I would look long and hard for a physical cause. If it's just something that he always has done, rule out a physical cause and do as much desensitizing as it takes to get him comfortable.


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Its all different tack from when I first rode him, but I had a saddle fitter come out and make sure that my saddle fit him the day I first rode him. I did it kind of backwards because I already had my custom built cutting saddle that I spent an arm and a leg on for my old horse so I needed to make sure it fits the horse before I bought the horse. Weird concept but I wanted to make sure...

I havnt had his back checked and he could have rolled in the last 2 weeks. I have been feeling his back all over and he doesnt seem to shy away from any spots. I dont know if he would or not it might be a good idea to have some one look at his back just to make sure...

As far as sacking out I have done a little. I put a plastic bag on the end of a whip and just rubbed him all over with it and he didnt really mind it. Heck when I bought him they wanted to show off how quiet he was. They fired a gun off right next to him and he never moved. I didnt just walk up to him with the pad and saddle and try to put it on. I rubbed the blanket all over his back and up on his neck and letting it fall off his butt. The saddle is a little harder to sack him out with since its 68 lbs and walking around with it and trying to rub it all over him can be hard so I used my old english saddle and he didnt blink an eye at that saddle. 

Im thinking im going to try leaving the saddle right out of it for a while...take my time with the saddle pad and keep working on that till I can put it on with no fuss then move to the saddle. Is that a good idea?


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## Cobalt (Jun 6, 2010)

If he's truly scared of being saddled, he's simply not ready yet. You will need to back up and do lots of desensitizing with all kinds of things before you try again. Basically, he should be to the point where he doesn't bat an eyelash over the saddle before you get that far. 

When he's comfortable with the saddle pad, blankets, trash bags (or whatever), when it comes time to do the saddle, don't let "fear" be an option. Have him in a large round pen. Do some lunging exercises and let him in to the middle where you and the saddle are. Pick the saddle up. If he goes to move, immediately send him around for a few more laps. I mean immediately! Let him come back in and stop. When he's calm, pick the saddle up again. If he moves, send him out again. Keep repeating this until you get something accomplished, whether it's just that you can pick it up and take a step towards him without him moving away. Keep these sessions relatively short, like no more than 20-30 minutes. Gradually work up to getting a saddle on his back. 

If you're not in a hurry and don't approach him in that way, it will go along way to establishing a trust between the two of you!


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank you Cobalt. 

I have been lunging him then I go back and try again and if he moved then I lunge him again. I never tried lunging him with the saddle with me in the middle of the round pen. Ill try that tonight forsure...

Should I try this with just the saddle pad first because hes acting like this with just the saddle pad as well??

He might be afraid of the saddle. But why didnt he do any thing when we were at his old place? I first rode him in the old owners saddle and I tacked him up myself. Then we came back and met the fitter and tried my saddle on him and I rode again. 

I guess it could just be that he is still young for a Morgan, new place, new horses, new smells, new saddle?? I guess I need to slow down with him. I have all the time in the world to work with him but I was really suprised by his actions. To be honest I was completly shocked...

Thanks again


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## Cobalt (Jun 6, 2010)

Well....if he acts *that* much different it does make one wonder if he'd been aced a little bit. I know there are dishonest people out there who would give a horse a calming agent to make him/her seem a lot calmer than in reality. Of course, it could be that he's a little slow to gain trust and that the new environment, smells, people, etc. have him a little worried. But in reality, if there is a radical difference in how he acts with you and how he acts with his previous owner, I'd really wonder about the tranq. 

The method I described is good to use with any kind of equipment you are trying to use to desensitize. It's ok for a horse to show fear of a new thing, and I indulge them in being cautious, curious, afraid, etc at first. But the best thing for a horse experiencing fear is to be asked to do something familiar and that he/she already knows how to do. Moving his feet will help him settle down. It may be very very slow steps at first, like just getting a pad on his back, but like I said, discourage his moving away by asking him to work. Then give him plenty of opportunites to rest and "explore" this new item. It helps to be able to do free lunging so you're not trying to handle the lunge line in addition to a saddle or equipment, but it can be done either way. The biggest thing here is your timing, and not overtiring him. Also always end on a positive note. That is important too!

Good luck!


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## Cobalt (Jun 6, 2010)

I wanted to add that when working with a frightened horse, being tied will just intensify the problems. I would strongly suggest that you not try to do any kind of desensitizing exercise with this horse tied. It could lead to a disaster such as I've had to learn the hard way to avoid! Trust me on this! Go into a round pen type space where you can ask him to move and he won't think its his idea, does that make sense? Just move him out with a lunging whip when he tries to crowd your space or gets afraid and tries to bail on you.

Also, as a 2 year old who hasn't been handled much, he's far from well trained. You will have a long way to go with him, and it sounds like he was definitely either worked hard and was tired when you rode him, or tranq'd. I hate to say that but from carefully reading your first post I sure have to wonder. His behavior sounds pretty normal for a young horse just being started out...so I'd approach him like he's never been started and you are doing it all for the first time. That's your safest bet!


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

My BO said the same thing about the tranq. I thought about that, but the people were sooo up front with me about Dan. They told me if it doesnt work out they have no problem with him coming back or working some thing out for an older, more experienced horse. They are pretty well known breeders around this area as well so I dont think they would have done some thing like that...but it does make me wonder thats for sure!

Thanks again


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hes 5 not 2. They started him as a 3 year old then havnt done alot with him since. I thought since I rode him when I went to see him that I wouldnt have to start all over again but ive been told a few times its probably the smartest thing to do. So this year I think im going to let him settle in and work on a few of his fears then send him to a trainer again in the spring...I know im no horse trainer so im not doing this on my own for his and my own safety.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

One, stop tying him to introduce him to various things...it's MUCH safer for a horse to be able to circle around you than to keep running into you with his hip. This way, you can also PUSH his hip away from you as well, because you are able to get him to actually GO away from you. 

Treat him like as if he's never had a saddle or blanket on...use an approach and retreat type method, and get him to allow you to be able to rub, and flap the blanket all over him, set it on him, take it off, etc...when he's comfortable with that, do the same with the saddle; nothing should phase him when you finally feel he is calm enough for the saddle to actually be tightened. I would do this in a round pen, or other smaller confined area so you have a bit more control, should he try to simply get away. I've done the exercises in round pens 'at freedom' as well, that way you can really push him around when he wants to move. A horse that is tied, or otherwise really confined when he is scared is only going to react more intensely, because he feels much more clausterphobic. If he can move his feet he will calm down quite a bit sooner, and you will be in much less danger of being run over. 

As far as his behavior, I would just keep working with him, and see how he does with consistant work...I don't necessarily think a horse that acts up elsewhere has been drugged...he was in a familiar environment, with familiar people, horses, etc. I'm not sure how much you have been working with him, especially with the saddle (doesn't sound like a whole lot of saddle work), so the whole saddling process is still 'new' with you; and if you're anticipating his 'moves' that will make him react more strongly. 

Clinton Anderson's Downunder Horsemanship book is filled with alot of different exercises, and can help you gain respect and develop a good working relationship with your horse...may be worth looking into; there are lots of other good books out there too, on getting a horse over certain 'obstacles' like he has as well.


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## Cobalt (Jun 6, 2010)

I think your plan to send him to a trainer is very smart! It's no fun to get in over our heads with a horse...as we've all done it and it can be a real confidence drain. But there's a lot you can do between now and then like you said. 

Not sure why I thought he was 2? But even at 5 he's still young and very inexperienced from the sounds of it.

I would like to think he hadn't been tranq'd, too. Hopefully with time he will settle in and will make you a great horse. I love morgans and would love to have one so I'm jealous!!


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## ilyTango (Mar 7, 2010)

Haven't read any of the other posts, but...#1) I strongly recommend you don't tie him-at least while you're getting him used to the saddle. Tying him down will make him feel trapped and escalate the fear.

2) If he's truly, really afraid, and not just bull****ting you to get out of work, spend a while and just rub him with the saddle and blanket until you can touch it anywhere on his body, and plop it on his back with no drama.

3) He might just want to get out of work. What worked with Tango is: whenever he moves and tries to avoid the saddle going on his back, back him up, quickly, about 10 steps, then stop and try again. If he moves away, back him up again. And repeat as long as needed. This will teach him that it's a lot more work to move and make an issue than to just quietly accept the saddle.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Agreed on no tying. I'd bring him into an enclosed space, put saddle on the ground in the center, & longe him/let him "fly" around it & gently reel him in, let him approach it at his own speed for a sniff, & keep it in center as the rest spot, when he's sufficiently calm about being near it. (longe him a few circles, bring him in to rest) Sack him out completely with pad first, though. Put saddle on with a swinging motion, do lots of "sack-out" swings first. Don't raise up the saddle like it's a predator about to sink its claws into his back. If he freaks, take it off him, & try again. He'll see that it'll come off--much of the fear of a saddle is thinking that it's stuck there forever.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

Northern said:


> Don't raise up the saddle like it's a predator ...


Did you say your saddle weighs 68 pounds? How large/strong are you? You may be really having to make a mighty effort to get it up there, changing your demeanor. Do you have a lightweight saddle you could try for a while?


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

anndankev said:


> Did you say your saddle weighs 68 pounds? How large/strong are you? You may be really having to make a mighty effort to get it up there, changing your demeanor. Do you have a lightweight saddle you could try for a while?


 
Im pretty strong, 5'10 and a bigger girl but it does get hard trying to work with the saddle. A girl that boards with me has a wintec western saddle so im using that till we are ready to move on to my saddle so my arms arnt dead by the end of the day.


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Ok, no more tying. Not that I think about it, I see the problem..dont know what I was thinking on that one but ill stop..


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

You have a green broke horse. I think you got dooped. I agree with everything Cobalt said. Did you actually see the people saddle this horse when you rode it? Or was it conveniently saddled when you arrived? The horses behaviour is telling you that you are asking it something to much too soon...which means he just doesn't understand it...you sound as if you are baby stepping it...which is good...be persistant, stay focused and don't put a time limit on it...see what the trainer says...it could be the horses way of just getting out of riding too...they can be very effecient at avoiding "work"...you can work through this with trust by gaining ground at the horses pace...teaching him saddling is just another everyday activity...my suggestion is get a knotted rope halter...have someone stand there and hold the horse...don't tie him up...try to saddle him and have the person correct him with the halter by giving a few sharp tugs on it if the horse acts up...it kinda has to be a two man effort because you can't carry a saddle and tug on the rope at the same time. It will be interesting to know what happens when you do finally get him saddled again and get on. I have a sneaky suspicion it won't be anything like your ride before  Wear a helmet!


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks hb.

When I first went and seen him he was not saddled. I went and haltered him in the field. Brushed him, saddled him, rode him. Unsaddled him, saddled him with my saddle then rode him again. I hope I didnt get dooped. They warned me he was a handful but I wasnt expecting saddling to be an issue. 

Dont worry on the helmet, my boyfriend doesnt know a thing about horses but he got me a "present" the other day and when I got home there was a brand spankin new helmet sitting there for me hahah...who needs diamonds?? lol


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

hmmmmmmmm well if he was fine there something has clicked in his head since then. Either he is just being a brat and trying you, he was drugged up (this may sound wierd but a sign a male horse has been drugged is his dingy hangs down and won't retract - was it hanging down) or something about his new environment has him freaked...something changed. Horses sometimes take awhile -even a few weeks to acclimate to a new place...your boyfriend should get some kudos too...always wear a helmet.


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

hmm...it wasnt hanging down...not that I noticed


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Just an update...

I have been working Dan every day and with some help of a friend last night we got him saddled. yay!!! We used her saddle because it's a synthetic and way lighter to pack around when Dan isnt standing quiet. So we got him saddled and it only took about 5 minutes and he was good. I lunged him and he was fine then we took the saddle off/on about 10 times and by the end of it he was standing quiet with his head hanging down half asleep. Im hoping this weekend we will have my saddle on him and ill ride.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Sounds like you are making some good head way  Persistant patience is the key to helping a young horse learn, so just keep it up and he will come around in no time at all.


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks M2P

Its hard...ive realized that I was a spoiled brat growing up and was given some GREAT horses to ride. My parents worked there back sides off so that I was always on a well broke horse. I rode lots of young horses but still, most of them fresh from the trainers. So Dan is a real test for me...


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

This is off topic BUT I have to say it is refreshing to hear a child admit that their parents worked hard to provide for them and I can tell you are truly thankful to them for it...very nice


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

herdbound said:


> This is off topic BUT I have to say it is refreshing to hear a child admit that their parents worked hard to provide for them and I can tell you are truly thankful to them for it...very nice


 

At the time I would never have admited it. I thought I was the best thing since sliced bread. But I had to grow up fast when I moved out at 17 to a difference province where I didnt know anyone. That was 4 years ago and now I look up to my mom like she is God when it comes to horses haha. I call her every day to ask for advice with Dan and she plans on coming up next month for a week to help me out. She used to give me lessons and we would just end up fighting because I was such a brat. So im thankful to have her around now, and Dan! He is teaching me all sorts of things about myself..


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## herdbound (Aug 30, 2010)

I am on the other end of this perspective. I am the mother who shares horsewomanship with my daughter, she is only 12. Horses have given us a common ground that we can enjoy together and I cherish all of the time we get to work together. I just thought your post was really sincere and sweet - parents need to hear stuff like that more often. On your horse, I am glad to see you are making progress-GOOD JOB! "That which does not kill me only makes me stronger" plays through my head whenever I deal with difficult horses. Just keep that in mind and trudge onward even if it is an inch at a time.


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank you HB


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## NicoleS11 (Nov 21, 2008)

**UPDATE**

We got Dan tacked up this weekend and he actually did pretty good.


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## rush60 (Aug 21, 2010)

It is good that you are getting a trainer to help. For sure a horse will pick up on your being a little tense and then start looking for the cause. Sometimes being just mater of fact and laid back goes a long way. But you can never fake that. I don't like to saddle young horses or strange horses whent hey are tied. I like to have them in a round pen or something that will let me get them settled without me getting stepped on.


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