# UNentitle?



## MissLulu (Feb 3, 2019)

How old?


My first thought is this is going to take a while and you need to stand your ground. And if he doesn't do what you have asked then not only doesn't he get the jacket he slowly starts losing privileges.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@farmpony . . . . I have no doubt that your son is a really good person, because I know that you are a really GREAT parent. Don't let small bumps in the road fool you into thinking that you've messed up overall.


This is a teen boy we are talking about. If he didn't have the desire and the backbone to resist, then I'd say you should be worried. Be calm, be nice, be mom and don't panic. The way will be revealed.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t know. Kids always act out more at home than in public, so since he is so good for teachers and coaches I am sure you are doing just fine. 

When one of mine starts acting entitled I simply tell her so. It gets better for a while and then happens again. I think all teenagers must try it. She works a lot here though, so I don’t have to make than an obligation. 

Sometimes she does something like want a jacket. When I tell her we can’t afford it and she acts whiny, she needs a minute to think on it. If she doesn’t pull back the attitude, that’s when I explain to her how that seems. 

Probably, like your son, she doesn’t ever mean to act that way. As soon as she realizes it she tries to change her attitude. They just don’t always think things through all the way. I am sure we are all guilty of it.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

So no jacket. Move on. 

No need to get mad. No need to feel like you failed as a parent, no need to think you need to fix this. Just don't get him the jacket. 

But keep loving him. Keep telling him you do love him, even when he is mad that you didn't get him the jacket. Laugh a little if you have to. 

This is kind of like horse training. Cause = consequence. Getting mad and feeling like the horse is spoiled doesn't accomplish anything. Stay completely cool and neutral and just tell him you're not getting him the jacket since he didn't do the chores you asked (because from the sounds of it, you don't expect him to do them). Don't nag either. You've told him once, that's enough. If he doesn't do anything, you don't do anything. It's his move. You just act like everything is normal in the meantime. 

Parenting teens is NOT easy! We all sympathize. I write my advice not because I know better, but because it's easier to see it clearly when you're not in the situation. I bet you'd give someone else the same advice.


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## ChieTheRider (May 3, 2017)

still a teen but my mom would say...








_*sarcasm greatly implied*_


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

So... I went to the booster club meeting and when I got back his room was clean. FOUR trashbags full. Not kitchen bags. Outdoor garbage can bags! The clothes was put up and the bed was made. The floor is still sticky so I told him it's not done until he steam cleans the floor. His bathroom is not done. I fed the pig and the living room is not vacuumed. But I do have about 8 forks, 6 plates, and a bowl that I forgot I had...

So that's a plus right? No jacket though. Finish the room, feed the pig, vacuum, and the bathroom... (It's HIS bathroom).

I do not like being the mean person. I hate it. I really, really hate it.

Husband wants to take stuff away because it's easier. But then he travels a lot so he isn't the one that gets to play single parent. It's hard being a married single parent. I don't know how real single parents do it!

OH... And he's 15


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

farmpony your lists of chores is not unreasonable Stand your ground.

You posted before me. But Yes it is a start which is good. And You ARE NOT a Mean Mother for wanting your son to have some responsible chores, it is his home also.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Just keep emotions out of it as much as you can.

https://quotefancy.com/quote/178368...go-through-some-ugly-stuff-to-get-to-the-good


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

He is giving me the silent treatment. I'm going to have to go watch some netflix!


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## MissLulu (Feb 3, 2019)

I have done the married single parent thing and it isn't fun. And 15 is a difficult age. I would allow privileges only when the chores have been done. Pizza party after the game. He is allowed to go to the game (don't want to let the team down and exercise is important) but no pizza party if all the chores that week weren't done. Hanging out with friends. Only if all the chores this week have been done. 



Can he do something to earn the jacket? Extra projects around the house (something you would normally do yourself or hire someone), helping out an elderly neighbor or family member. 



And you are not being mean. It is important for him to learn to be responsible and do his chores without being asked.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

on my best day I couldn't get my son to gather bagloads of stuff to throw out. He is a hoarder. I have to ride my kids like a jockey to get them to do anything significant. I'm way too lax on them. way.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Farmpony, Just remember YOU are the parent and he is the child. If you try to be his friend instead of the leader he won't respect you. Sounds like some of that has happened already. You wouldn't allow that in your horse or he wouldn't respect you so why would you expect your son to be any different. My three daughters got jobs as soon as they could because they wanted to be independent. Two before they could drive and we drove them to their part time jobs when they were in school. All three worked when they went to college for extra spending money. We paid most of their college and all their lodging. Now today they are all very successful women and have their own children , who the two grandchildren that are driving have part time jobs. I could not be prouder of my daughters. They always had responsibilities and chores to do around the house too. They are all leaders, the oldest has a six figure job, one right at six figures and the other very close. More than their father ever made. Having a job and responsibilities is the best thing for ALL youngsters. Help him be responsible and a leader. Most importantly he will know the value of a dollar and how to save for things.


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## pennywise (Feb 1, 2016)

farmpony84 said:


> So... I went to the booster club meeting and when I got back his room was clean. FOUR trashbags full. Not kitchen bags. Outdoor garbage can bags! The clothes was put up and the bed was made. The floor is still sticky so I told him it's not done until he steam cleans the floor. His bathroom is not done. I fed the pig and the living room is not vacuumed. But I do have about 8 forks, 6 plates, and a bowl that I forgot I had...
> 
> So that's a plus right? No jacket though. Finish the room, feed the pig, vacuum, and the bathroom... (It's HIS bathroom).
> 
> ...


He's 15, can you sit down and actually have an adult conversation with him? He should understand that you provide for him, right? He gets to live in your house for free and you're asking him to do very basic things. But, I remember my mom asking me to do something really easy like empty the dishwasher or vacuum a portion of the house, and I'd get home from school and sit in front of the tv. And then when she brought up that it hadn't been done I'd pout or act like my day at school had been too hard, why should I have to come home and work? Blah. And now I can't remember why I was ever like that, especially because now I deal with messy roommates and I say the same thing to them :| 

Put up a chore board with lots of stuff? He can randomly do stuff without you asking and if there's like, I don't know, 5 things done by the end of the week he can do something he wanted to do. My cousin's family did that for their 3 kids and it worked crazy good. Because kids always want to do the opposite of what you ask and teenagers have this idea that their life is somehow as stressful as the adult that has to provide for them. I don't know. My parents had restrictions. If we slammed our door, the door came off for a week. Like, I imagine they would have done the same thing you did. Chores were a regular thing, not just for when we wanted something. If we wanted something, we'd find out after we asked. And it did have a lot more to do with our conduct towards them, not just chores. They made it known that they weren't a credit card. I think that's good parenting and you shouldn't feel guilty or sad for stepping up and reminding him that he's being taken care of...by you! Honestly, at 15, kids my age had jobs. We made our own money because we wanted to be independent. If he wants to have stuff, he's old enough to make money.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I suspect he's going to have to learn the hard way this time, no jacket for half ****-ry. Yes, I just made that up. How to get him to not be so entitled? Quit figuring out and giving him all his wants before he even knows he wants them. Needs fall into that too, but you can make obtaining needs a little less difficult than obtaining his wants. Give him a list of chores that are HIS and his alone. At first, I would not include anything that needs to rely on him for its very existence (feeding the pig) but cleaning his room & bathroom, helping with the laundry, the rest of the house, grooming horses, cleaning the barn and pastures, washing the cars, mowing the lawn, taking out the trash, things like that. It's real simple, if the does the list for the week to your satisfaction, he gets something he needs or wants, if he doesn't, not only do the chores remain his for the next week, but he's grounded to the house for the week too. That goes 1 time, then things start to be taken away, off the team (whatever he's on), cell phone gets put up, t.v. comes out of his room (if he's got one), radio comes out, dvd & cd players or mp3s, books (not school books), magazines, no telephone privileges, no company during the week. Friends can visit on the weekends but only if his chores for the day are finished. It's a lot more work than just giving in, firm, fair & consistent.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Great! He cleaned his room, that's awesome! I'd say way to go kid! Very proud of you for doing part of what I asked. Here's a coupon for part of the money for the jacket now (figure out what percentage of the chores he did, and write down that percentage of the jacket's worth). I mean, we all need a little incentive sometimes right? This would allow him to see clearly, on a piece of paper, that he is part of the way there! (but also that you're not budging on your other requests)


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

MissLulu said:


> Can he do something to earn the jacket? Extra projects around the house (something you would normally do yourself or hire someone), helping out an elderly neighbor or family member.


Extra projects! I just want him to do the regular ones! LOL My parents always have jobs for him and they pay well. They are right next door so that is always an option. He just has to show up and do the work.



tinyliny said:


> on my best day I couldn't get my son to gather bagloads of stuff to throw out. He is a hoarder. I have to ride my kids like a jockey to get them to do anything significant. I'm way too lax on them. way.


Um... It was four bags of TRASH. Soda cans, food wrappers, rotten food, TRASH... FOUR bags of trash!



pennywise said:


> He's 15, can you sit down and actually have an adult conversation with him?
> 
> Put up a chore board with lots of stuff?


Adult conversations depend on the day of the week. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I think there is an alien that has body snatched him and it takes over sometimes.

There is actually a list of chores on the fridge that have dollar amounts associated with them. 



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I suspect he's going to have to learn the hard way this time, no jacket for half ****-ry.
> 
> no telephone privileges, no company during the week.


Yes... half ****-ry.... "He gonna Learn!"

I have the ability to pause his internet so that may just have to happen. I'm curious if he will clean his bathroom today when he gets home. It's nasty.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Remember there are needs and wants. Needs are the things you must have to live a normal life. Wants are all the frills that are not required. Does he already have a descent jacket? I bet he does and he just wants another. If it is only a want he needs to work for that, either at home doing extras or at a paying job. It sounds like to me he has had too many things just handed to him and never been required to do things at home. Remember you are teaching him valuable life lessons both earning things and saving for items. If he doesn't learn these things he will always be wanting to live off Mom, Dad and the system. You still have time, help him by showing how to help himself.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I am untidy, always was and guess I always will be. When my room was a mess my mother would tell me to clean it. She didn't issue any warnings, she didn't nag, just ask once tell the second time with the warning that if things weren't cleared she would throw it out. 

She would too! 

Mum was the one who of you upset her would give the silent treatment, she did speak but not hold a conversation. She soon swung you round as it was so frustrating! So don't let you son win this one. Let him earn it, doing his chores should not entitle him to a new jacket, it should be chores plus some. 

Something my sister and hubby did when their children wanted something was to tell them if they saved half they would pay the other half. That worked well and taught them the value of saving. All three have good jobs, they all save a certain amount each month and pay their own way.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Foxhunter said:


> I am untidy, always was and guess I always will be. When my room was a mess my mother would tell me to clean it. She didn't issue any warnings, she didn't nag, just ask once tell the second time with the warning that *if things weren't cleared she would throw it out. *
> 
> She would too!
> 
> ...


Foxhunter, this was the policy in our home as well. Once my DH told our son that he had until Friday (this was issued on a Monday) to clean his room and put everything away, or he would find his room outside. Friday came and when DS got off the school bus, there were the entire contents of his room in the yard! Saw a slight smirk on his face like "yup, Dad actually meant it" and then he got busy bringing everything back in and putting it all away. Extreme, yup, but never had to do anything remotely like that again.


Both children had to earn part of what they wished for. They learned early between wants and needs. Needs we as parents provided. Wants, they had to earn part, unless I decided it was a no go to start with.


Parenting is the toughest and most important job on the face of this earth. I do like what someone posted about keeping the emotions on our part out of it. What works for one child, doesn't for the other. Always wished they came with an owners manual/guide when born, but that would be far too easy!


Farmpony, you have done a good job. He is respectful outside of the home. It's normal for them to be a$$e$ in the home, though we have to work with them to change that. I can vaguely remember being that age, not someplace I would to travel back to for sure.


My theory about teenage years is it helps us parents to prepare for their eventual departure to college. By the time comes we are glad to see their 

backsides! 



Chin up, you will handle this, and in the end wonder how!:shrug::winetime:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its a phase that most kids seem to go through
I thought my youngest was going to skip it as he was such a great kid, even though he'd been more indulged with material things than the eldest as we're better off financially. 
Then he went away to college and came home like that spoilt teenage brat we thought we'd escaped.
You have to stick with your rules, if you make a threat you can't go back on it. Show no weakness!
It took a while but it did work. It made us as miserable as it made him but worth it in the long run


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I meant to make something clear in my first post, talking about wants and needs. I agree that needs are what you must have to keep body & soul together, appear in public, stuff like that. Wants are the gravy on the mashed potatoes of life. When he's an adult, he won't be handed his needs. He'll have to earn the money and learn to manage it so that he can take care of his own needs and wants. He needs to start learning now, not all of a sudden when he's off to college or has his first job and apartment. I totally recommend some of Dave Ramsey's books and games to help him learn.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

Nothing better than Dave Ramsey advice on finances! Every young person should read his books. They will help one be successful financially.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Okay. My daughter went through a phase at 14/15 where she 'demanded' walking around money. I kid you not.

When told no, she had to do chores that were above and beyond the call of duty, like mowing the lawn vs taking out the trash, she threw a walleyed fit, screaming and crying that we never buy her ANYTHING. SHE'S SO DEPRIVED!

So, that day I marched her into her room and proceeded to remove EVERYTHING she'd been given in the last six weeks:

New bed linens, comforter, decor on the wall, her cell phone, her TRUCK KEYS (she wasn't old enough to drive yet, but we were starting her on the dirt roads int he middle of nowhere, so she had a truck, just couldn't take it anywhere), her pillows, her boom box, her make up, her hair products, her soap, her shampoo, EVERYTHING.

I piled it all on the rug in middle of the living room floor.

She didn't get it back until she learned to behave herself and not make demands and to accept no for an answer.

It lay there two weeks. She had to sleep on a bare mattress with whatever pillows and throw blankets she could scrounge out of the guest room. She had to use the el cheapo shampoo that I use, not the fancy schmancy stuff. 

After that, if she wanted something, we made her work for money to buy it.

She got a job at 16, and has traded up vehicles multiple times and is now a part time manager at a pizza joint while being two semesters out from being done with college and earning a safety degree.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

When Mum issued a punishment she stuck to it. 
We had a lodger, Jane who worked with me at the first riding school. We had been warned not to be late - it the second hand had gone past 11 we would be in for a week. 
We were being driven home when th scar ran out of petrol so we were much later than a second! I found it hysterically funny as it was such a lame excuse. 
Jane begged and pleaded to be allowed out and Mum said no way. 
Jane took a week off work and went home across the Island, imwas grounded formthe week. When Jane returned she got ready to go out and Mum asked, "Where do you think you are going young lady?" 
"Out."
Oh no you aren't you're grounded for a week. 
Oh boy did she kick off on a rant, when she paused to take a breath Mum just said "8 days," this increased the more she went on until she ended up with two weeks grounded, then she caught on. 

When I was caring for Mum we often reminisced and this came up. She said she had believed me over running out of petrol because I found it so funny.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

FarmPony ..... just HANG IN THERE. What you are doing now will benefit him his entire life. 



You set the rules. You are the parent. If he doesn't want to abide by them, then there are consequences (such as, no jacket). Simple as that. 



Mine are young yet (ages 2 1/2 and almost 1) but the same "simple" rules apply (of course, mostly for the older one). As an example, if she wants a cookie, she needs to finish the "good" food on her plate first. Period. And guess what? She finishes the food on her plate. (Sure, she'll whine about it for 20 minutes ... but we hold steady and she wants that cookie, so she eventually does it.)


My goodness, I just had a mother in for her eye exam yesterday and oh my did I hold my tongue (regarding her 4 children SCREAMING in my exam room). And it's not the children's fault. She's enabled them and they don't understand consquences, because she's never given them any. On one hand it is oh-so-simple, but yet some people just can't muster it.


Growing up, I can't say we were ever really "punished" for everything. But..... I also did what my parents told me to do, along with my brothers. Whether we were out picking rocks, cleaning out a grain bin, mowing the lawn, feeding the bottle calves, etc etc. There was work to be done. And we did it. Sure, we were rewarded for it. Our parents paid for most of our college, and bought us all nice vehicles. But we also "put our time" into it. Not that I expected to get those things, or felt entitled to get those things. I did my work b/c that's what was asked of me.


So honestly for the "hissy fit" your son is throwing for as simple a task as cleaning his room, you go watch your Netflix and let him "get over it". Stick to your guns!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

We were never rewarded for doing things like helping with meals, cleaning our rooms, emptying trash, doing laundry, caring for animals, mowing the lawn, etc. As part of a household, that is expected. If you want to eat, you help shop and cook. If you want clean clothes, you help with laundry. When we wanted something that was a 'want' and not a need, we had to earn it by doing extra stuff -- helping the neighbors bale hay, cleaning the garage or barn, etc. Were we happy about it? Heck no. Our friends got things handed to them and didn't have to do chores and we felt that terribly unfair. But my mom lost both of her parents suddenly at age 16 and was able to take care of the household, pay for college, and wanted to make sure that we also knew how to be alright if she and dad were gone. I turn 40 in 2 weeks and some of those friends who got things for nothing are drowning in debt, and still don't know how to put gas in a car or cook a meal.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

@SilverMapleThat's how my sibs and I were raised. I did manage to get assigned to the gardens and pruning tree detail, as I preferred outside work to dusting, vacuuming ect. my sister did.


Funny little memory to share. When my son, who was still too young to get a "real" job complained about not being able to earn money, I came up with what I thought was a great idea. Decided to "hire" him to do a variety of my chores (some of my friends paid people to actually clean their homes) in exchange for a set "wage". Now this did not include his chores already assigned to him. 

The first week was heaven! The second, well, he missed a few tasks so deducted from his "wage". 

By the end of the fourth week, I told him he owed me money for having to do the work he didn't complete! So that was the end of that experiment.


Happy and relieved to say he has become a very conscientious worker and a wonderful father. If you had asked me if that was going to be a possibility way back then, I would have just shrugged my shoulders in doubt.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

A parent here. I had 2 step kids, raised my niece until she was 5 and then had her every other weekend and then had 2 kids of my own. Stick to your guns. By age of 15 - I never handed out money for things the kids "wanted" they got what they needed period. If the jacket is a want then that is a no- he can earn the money and buy it himself and that is besides the things he has to do at home.

I know it sounds mean - and I was told I was mean by my kids (all 5) all of the time. But they are all hard workers now. My youngest is 19 and a college student - and she still knows that if she wants something above and beyond she has to work to pay for it.

Since your parents have a chore list and pay well - he can work


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Sigh...

I feel like a bad parent. He was SO easy when he was little... High School is a bad bad place... Grumble... and girls are manipulative and dirty... and boys are rotten... and I suck as a parent.

That is all 


Grrr - PS... he cleaned his room AND the bathroom. Still has to vacuum. He also has trash that has to be hauled to the end of the road. But get this... Now he wants a watch! The answer is... NO.


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## Walkamile (Dec 29, 2008)

Farmpony, sounds like all is normal! Tough years for both parent and teenager. You are a wonderful parent, continue. It will all come together, later, much , much later! 



Now that son is married and a father to 3 children, he thinks I'm freaking brilliant! LOL! It will all come full circle, you just have to stay the course.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I know it is way easier said than done, but one thing that helps if you can get there is to think in terms of "self-inflicted consequences." That is, you are not the Bad Guy, you are simply the moving hand of the universe, doing what the universe does. Set the rules, make them clear, and then just administer them. Keep your emotions out of it as much as you can. Teenage boys are not horses, but all sentient beings learn best when they bump up against the fair consequences of their actions. No consequences, no learning. Like they say, your best teacher is the last mistake you made.

For a counter-example, my parents did me no favors by shielding me from having to deal with money when I was a kid (they grew up poor, and wanted us to have an easy life, I guess). I had to learn from strangers, rarely friendly ones, after I left home, that not keeping money straight had big unpleasant consequences. 

Teenagers are a little like toddlers in that what you are doing with them is not for your own convenience but for their future benefit. It's more frustrating in some ways because it seems like they ought to be able to do a lot better than what they are doing -- not something you think about toddlers. But really it isn't.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think I'm having a really hard time because (and I know most adults will say this)... we were never bad. I have three brothers and we were never bad. I mean, I had the bad grades here and there. The twins were always honors society and the oldest brother was an eagle scout. I was a girl scout... well the twins were also eagle scouts. BUT we were a military family and you don't misbehave on base or your dad gets in trouble... or he used to...

I mean, we back talked... once... 

Sheesh... my parents were good at what they did! BAHAHAHHA... 

Now that they are grandparents they suck. They give the kid everything he wants....


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## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

@farmpony84 , I don't know you and I do not want you to think that I am judging you, because I have a 15-year-old son and just sent my 18-year-old son off to college, so I get it.

But, I was just having a conversation yesterday with my trainer about consistency and its importance in horse training. I asked him, "Do you know where it is even more important? In raising kids." It is true. You have to set rules and stick to your guns for any lessons to be learned.

When my eldest was a toddler, I read a child psychology book that professed:
"It is a parent's job to set limits. However, it is a child's job to test those limits." You may laugh, but it's totally true. I mean, when you say to a toddler, "Don't stand near the chimney," they need to figure out what 'near' is. Is it 3 feet? 2 feet? 1 foot? 6 inches? They are not questioning your authority as a parent, but they are merely trying to understand what the parameters are.

The same is true with teenagers, but now they have a whole new backlog of memories when you set a rule and did not follow-up on correcting their behaviour during instance X. Not an accusation. We've all done it. It's just that correcting behaviours when they get older is much harder. And, yes, now they are questioning your authority (dang testosterone).

The other word I am very careful with around my children is "no". I always pick my "no" battles carefully and use "no" only when clearly necessary. In your situation, if he asks for a jacket, then a watch, try a response of "OK, well, let's figure out how you can earn that watch." And have him come up with a plan. Put the responsibility on him, not yourself. Of course, easier said than done. (P.S. avoiding the word "no" was a trick I learned while caring for my aunt with Alzheimer's - it totally stressed her out.)

And if he really wants that watch, now would be the perfect time to make a "no eating in the bedroom" rule for him to earn it!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Yeah, we were easy kids, too.

He wants a jacket and a watch. Which does he want more? If he could only have one, which is it? Maybe work out a deal to meet him halfway on one of them, and leave the rest up to him. 

My mom often told us to write down whatever it was we wanted, and we'd revisit it in a week or two. A lot of times, we'd moved on and that wasn't important anymore and something else had taken its place. If we still had the item on the 'want' list after awhile, it was a pretty good indication that it was important, and by then we'd usually have earned it in one way, shape, or form. It's amazing, even as an adult, how many 'oh my, I gotta have it' purchases are not purchased if you wait for even a few days to think it over. My dad was a master of "It's a busy week/money is tight this month/we helped you buy hay last week/your mother needs some new clothes first so let's wait with that for a couple of weeks" and then a couple of weeks later it was forgotten. My parents were also sticklers about some things they felt were important-- if we wanted books, we almost always got them. Needed clothing was purchased as needed-- you can't go to school wearing worn out jeans or jeans that don't fit. Quality shoes were important-- get good ones when needed. But other stuff was less important and would be subject to the 'wait and see how you feel in a few days/weeks' rule. When everyone in my class got Trapper Keepers (remember those?) one fall and I HAD to have one, my mom made me wait until after Christmas. By then my grandma had let me pick one out as part of my gift. When I was in 8th grade, I fell in love with a coat I saw in a local store. Every time we went in, I still wanted it. After a month, mom bought it for me as a reward for helping out at home when she was gone for a week caring for a sick relative. As a teen, a lot of 'wants' are fads-- everyone else has a certain style of jacket, brand of jeans, or fancy watch, and in a month it will be something else. But if he needs a watch because he's late to school sometimes, or they can't have phones in class and there's no clock on the wall, or he has just taken a liking to quality timepieces and has done the research into exactly what he wants with the effort put in to find a good item and a good price and still wants one in a month, it's likely to be a purchase he will appreciate and care for especially if he has to earn some of it. 

You're not a bad parent. There's no 'right way' to raise kids. Be consistent, 'no' means 'no' and is used sparingly, and letting your son know that even if you can't buy something right now, or he's done something you are upset about, you're not angry at him, you're angry at his choices. Acknowledge his efforts, follow through on punishment and reward, and raise him with love and respect that goes both ways, and he'll turn out alright.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> I think I'm having a really hard time because (and I know most adults will say this)... we were never bad. I have three brothers and we were never bad. I mean, I had the bad grades here and there. The twins were always honors society and the oldest brother was an eagle scout. I was a girl scout... well the twins were also eagle scouts. BUT we were a military family and you don't misbehave on base or your dad gets in trouble... or he used to...
> 
> I mean, we back talked... once...
> 
> ...


I come from a military family too. You definitely did not act out (at least in public) and get dad in hot water with the Base CO. That was great for the first 14 years of my life, then he got medically retired and we got sent back Stateside. I was exposed to my first American Public School right when I really didn't need that kind of influence. HOLY COW what a culture shock. And of course, I made friends with the kids in that school. I also picked some not wonderful ones to hang out with. I'll toss my hand up and say, "I was not an easy child.". My parents set the boundaries and I broke through them time and again. I understood consequences and took them with my mouth shut. For instance, when I was about 16, I wanted to go see Electric Light Orhcestra, Hot Tuna and I forget the opener in Hollywood at the Palladium. That was a very firm, "NO, you may not go all the way to Hollywierd.". I knew the consequences, so I went and when I came home and walked in the door at ……..somewhere around 3 a.m., I walked in the front door, over to the low backed chair, bent over and waited for it. And I got it. And I'd do it again. I mean, how many times to do you get to see musicians of that caliber? LOL! I'm sure my dad went in the back room and pretty much had a heart attack several times as my brothers and I were growing up. It's what kids do, give their parents heart attacks and sour stomachs. 

I will say that my folks rarely said, "NO", and when they did they meant it. If we chose to do whatever it was anyway, there were consequences and not just little ones either. Back in those days, a belt was a normal form of corporal punishment and dad could swing one with the best of them. Mom was good at the lightning fast backhand, I only back sassed her once and caught it right in the teeth. Yep, learned to bite my tongue real quick. What I said when I was out of hearing (and out of reach)? Yeah well, it's probably good she didn't hear it, she'd still be whuppin' me. Getting grounded to your room for 30 days was another one, and when I mean grounded to your room, I mean to your room. We didn't have TVs, game stations, cell phones and things like that, but they took out all our books, radios, record players and anything else that might be a distraction. You went to school, came home did your chores and went to your room until called for dinner. Then back to your room. By then, I was past the age of getting sent to pick cotton, but that was another thing when I was a kid. Picking cotton is a really quick way to get over yourself. 


That's all pretty harsh compared to how today's parents are raising kids, but the bottom line was, it was firm, it was fair and it was very consistent. It kept me, and most of my brothers, out of jail. It taught us how to work, take direction and not make excuses. They were a little too indulgent though when it came to money. And they didn't teach us much about how to manage it. If there's one thing I would have wished they'd taught us better, it would have been money management, that would have saved us all from some very painful lessons. We all did learn, and pretty darn quick too, once we'd moved out on our own. But it would have been nice to have had that lesson drilled into us before we had to face some of those consequences. Dad had a tendency to want to be "The First Bank of Dad" and indulge us way later than was good for us and it caused some issues in our relationships. He wised up and cut the purse strings for the younger kids, but the older ones learned some of those lessons the hard way. 

Stick to it, you're doing him a favor. And as one who has done every stupid thing under the sun, I'm telling you, you're going to save him some heartache if you teach him now.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

@Dreamcatcher Arabians - Yes, when we moved here my dad bought a house OFF base so I went to public school. Talk about culture shock! The girls looked like they walked off the front cover of a magazine! Kids were doing more than just holding hands and just wow is all I have to say. But I still had a curfew and I didn't have a car or get to go where I wanted when I wanted and my parents still shopped at the PX and the Commesary.....

My first concert was Tiffany opening for the New Kids on the Block and my mom went!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

You're doing a great job farmpony. Just stay consistent and keep your expectations high. I, too, am a married single parent. No fun. I also don't like feeling like all discipline is on my plate but I also chose that so live with my choice. Mine has days he adults and days he doesn't. As a teen I am expecting that the doesn't days are going to soon out number the does days before he swings back to adult (more mature) mode. That he is respectful and polite in public says you are doing things right.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> I think I'm having a really hard time because (and I know most adults will say this)... we were never bad.



And I think it is fair to say that it is indeed different for kids and teens now, then it used to be, because of the amount of social media and technology. But I don't think that is an "excuse" for kids and teens to behave a certain way and it just all has to do with how the parents are raising them.



So....stick to your guns! I _love love_ SpanishRider's post about consistency. Treat your son like your horse. :smile: You wouldn't be inconsistent with the cues to your horse, would you? No, because you'd confuse the heck out of your horse! So stay consistent with your son. If you told him "no jacket" until he does X,Y, Z, then you need to stick with that. If you set a certain rule or requirement, then you need to follow through. 



You are "changing your ways" so it is natural for your son to test it to see what you are going to enforce, or if you will just give in.


Don't give in. Be consistent!!


And he wants a watch? If you don't want to buy him a watch, then so "NO". Simple as that. You don't have to buy him everything he wants. Remember all those posts we get from teens on here that say _"How can I make my parents buy me a horse?"_ And what do we tell them? "Your parents set the rules so if they say no horse, then sorry, you don't get a horse."


If you say "no watch" then sorry, he doesn't get a watch. You are the parent. That is for you to decide.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

beau159 said:


> So....stick to your guns! I _love love_ SpanishRider's post about consistency. Treat your son like your horse. :smile:


Um... You do realize my horses are spoiled brats don't you?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

YOU PEOPLE....

I am following your advice....

Today was day one of him without a cell phone. I made it - lived through it. I think he's going through detox right now.... He'll make it.

Today he did text me from someones phone to ask if he could skip tutoring. I said no. He said he's not going. I said Daddy says. He went. And when I picked him up? He was HAPPY because he finished his math and his geography work!

He asked for the watch again. I laughed. He said he's never doing chores for me again. I laughed again.....


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## MissLulu (Feb 3, 2019)

It sounds like you are making progress. With practice, saying "No" gets easier!


About a year ago my now 16 year old daughter wanted something and I told her no. She then said, "But you spoil the dogs!" I told her dogs don't grow up and make bad life choices so they deserve to be spoiled.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

:thumbsup:

3 cheers for farmpony. Hip hip haray, Hip hip haray,, Hip hip haray.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> @Dreamcatcher Arabians - Yes, when we moved here my dad bought a house OFF base so I went to public school. Talk about culture shock! The girls looked like they walked off the front cover of a magazine! Kids were doing more than just holding hands and just wow is all I have to say. But I still had a curfew and I didn't have a car or get to go where I wanted when I wanted and my parents still shopped at the PX and the Commesary.....
> 
> My first concert was Tiffany opening for the New Kids on the Block and my mom went!


I still miss the commissary and PX. 

LOL! My first concert was Alice Cooper and Black Sabbath. I told my mom I was going to a voice recital of a friend of a friend, named...….Alice Cooper. Neglected to mention Black Sabbath! I'd still be grounded if they had found out.


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## MissLulu (Feb 3, 2019)

Just so you know my kid isn't perfect and I'm not that mom giving advice while living in my princess world.

The dogs ran out of food. My daughter (16) feeds them. The past two days have been horrible. Yesterday one of my cats came into my bathroom just after I had taken a shower and peed in my bathtub (he never does this, always uses his kitty box) and it was bright pink. I called my vet and arranged to bring him in. My pet vet is over an hour away. She is lovely, her partners are wonderful, and her staff is amazing so I don't bother changing to a closer practice. I left my cat with them overnight so they could run tests and I knew I would have to come back the next day. Today I had my daughter come with me to get our kitty. I am so stressed, I can't handle it when the animals are sick! We get kitty home and set him up in a bathroom so he will not be stressed. I have pain medicine that I have to give to him every 12 hours, and special food, and..and..and... And my daughter says, "Where is the dog food?" There is no dog food, I didn't know we were out and I have been to two different stores in the past two days where I could have purchased dog food if I had known we were out! "I thought we had dog food in the garage" the kid says.....never-mind that I don't ever keep dog food in the garage. 

When my husband found out about all this his response was, "We have cat food, just feed them that."

So my dogs are getting boiled organic chicken breast from Costco and organic white rice from Trader Joe's for dinner. I'm not feeding the humans. If you can't feed the pets dinner then you will have to figure out your dinner yourself!


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## Spanish Rider (May 1, 2014)

> Um... You do realize my horses are spoiled brats don't you?


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: 

My experience with commissaries was when my aunt was in the foreign service and stationed in Guatemala, and I was living with her. There was no base, so the commissary was on the back side of the block of the Embassy, with a secret entrance to not call attention. There was literally a black steel door that you knocked on. A little window opened, a soldier peeked out at you, and then you were let in (or not!). Inside, there was a security check, then you were allowed through another steel door (or not!). The whole process was sort of like going into a bank vault. But, inside! It was like a little portal to America! Of course, at 13, all I cared about was the food, and there were cookies, chips and peanut butter - all those things that are essentials to teens and could not be bought in a Guatemalan market. Heaven!

Funny thing is, 40 years later I still live abroad and still have a hard time buying peanut butter.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

@MissLulu - OMIGOSH! That happens with the pig food. He feeds the pig. It's his job. And he will stop feeding the pig and I'll yell and scream and he'll be like... we are out of food. I GO TO TRACTOR SUPPLE EVERY SATURDAY! YOu couldn't tell me we were getting low? You ahve to wait until we run out?! People food it is...


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> Um... You do realize my horses are spoiled brats don't you?



Haha, okay, maybe be stricter with your son then. LOL.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

@Farmpony, your experience yesterday shows that you have gained credibility. Even if you think down the road you may have been too harsh, if you ever back down from from your original stance, you will lose credibility. Credibility is that your son recognizes you mean what you say, and he knows that arguing and threatening will not change your mind. Changing your stance will show him he can manipulate you. Kids trying to manipulate adults is a natural process in their development. From that success or failure, they learn how to manage other people in the world (he probably doesn't do this much at school because those folks are experienced at holding the line) You must know adults who make excuses for not working hard, being late, missing work, and a ton of other things. They have learned to manipulate and continue until it doesn't work anymore. For an adult, it can mean losing a job or a relationship and some people are so ingrained with this manipulating style they just can't change. Better to learn as a kid than have problems as an adult.

Just like horses or dogs, people will do what works and stop doing what doesn't work. Oh, they will all test now and then to see if the "electric wire" is still on. You have made yourself clear what you son must do to earn the jacket. You are not being mean at all, you are showing him that you are firm but fair and he will get what he wants if he follows through. The first couple of battles will be the hardest and soon he will not question that you mean what you say.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

What Winnie said. I'm going through some of that with a couple of the folks I hired to help me around the barn. One is a college student due to graduate in May and the other is a 32 yo guy whose past is.....sketchy to say the least. 

College Student - can't ever commit to what days he was available. Showed up and worked well, but did bare minimum required and rushed off. Showed up one day and clocked in, when I went out to tell him what I wanted done 15 mins later.....nobody was there. Came back 2 hours later, madder than a hornet, had some "fiancée issues". I told him straight up, no drama, leave it at home and don't just take off without telling me about it. Mind you, guy's also a farrier and trying to build clientele. I think he was mad that when he showed up I didn't fire my farrier and let him take over the barn. Yeah, no. So fast forward a week, he sends me an e-mail about how he's pushing his customers off for me (wait a minnit! He's scheduled here for a month in advance, the clients he's "Pushing off for me" are the ones who call last minute) and he just can't commit to days anymore and he'll just show up and if there's work, he'll work. Yeah, NO. Your final pay is ready, let me know when you want to come get it. 

2nd guy, starts out great, works hard but is a little slow. There have been some issues, I've had my eye on him for a while. Last straw, he shows up, cleans the barn, fixes the buckets and gets everything ready to go for the evening. Finally seems to get that it does not take 6 hrs to clean the barn and feed, got it done in almost the 2 hrs it takes me. Told him good job. He said he wanted to clock out and go home and I reminded him that he had been asking for more hours and had committed to me that he'd be here til 4 and assigned a couple of chores he could do in 1.5 hrs. Go out 15 mins later and POOOF he's gone. 2nd time in 2 days he did that, first time I told him no more warnings. HE tried to tell me this is all my fault because I told him he was here too much and he just wanted to get off the clock and not have too many hours. Ummmmmm no, I told you it didn't take 6 hrs to clean & feed but that I had plenty more work for you. Your final pay is in the mail. 

And THEN there's the jackwagon who calls up wanting to apply for the job and I told him I'd email him an application and he could return it. If I felt he was qualified, I'd call for an interview. Mind you, I made the mistake of answering the phone at 9 pm (what was I thinking?) and he pulls that stuff and gets VERY pushy and demanding how he's going to come here to fill out the app, right before I'm ready to go to bed. Then the next day he messgs me, he wants to know what the job paid. WHAT? I haven't even sent you the app (and I wasn't going to), and you are demanding the pay? WHAT? I told him, thank you for your interest, but I won't be needing you. THEN he got nasty, called me everything but a red headed step child. Told him I'd just fired 2 jerks who wanted to run over me and do things their way, why on earth would I want another? 

That's all classic manipulation and bullying that they learned to do as kids. I won't tolerate it and won't keep someone around who thinks they're going to run my business their way (or not at all). You're doing the kid a favor, trust me.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Kids are bully's.

Did I mention that without his phone he has no music? Well... I did feel bad over that because he does have an hour bus ride. So... I gave him my old iPOD.... It has nothing but country music on it. Hank, Waylon, George Jones, George Straight... Sammy Kershaw, Aaron Tippon.... I mean, it has some new stuff too like Rodney Atkins and Jason Aldean... but their AINT no stinkin' rap music on it! LOL... Ima turn him around fer sure!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

He could try making conversation with the other kids on the bus.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Uh, before we could carry music with us, we would read on the bus or talk to the person we were sitting next to.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> He could try making conversation with the other kids on the bus.


Whaaaaaatttt?!!!!!!!


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Just sayin', I like your idea of letting him listen to music for the hour bus ride. I know I would really appreciate that, as for one I find it hard to communicate with random people (which yes could be worked on, but still) and two, that is a long ride and who wants to chat the whole time. Plus, it's country music right, so not much harm can come of it lol.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Well FP, how is it going?





farmpony84 said:


> Did I mention that without his phone he has no music? Well... I did feel bad over that because he does have an hour bus ride.



Why should you feel bad about that? I rode the bus just about every day, kindergarten through 12th grade. 45 minutes on the "short" route and closer to 90 minutes on the "long" route. And I did that WITHOUT a phone all those years.


He will live. He will be fine.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

He lost his video games today... So... no phone. no video games.

he's actually been pretty pleasent to be around. He's so far taking it all in stride...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> He lost his video games today... So... no phone. no video games.
> 
> he's actually been pretty pleasent to be around. He's so far taking it all in stride...


Sounds like he's not believing you're going to be able to follow through on all of this.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Sounds like he's not believing you're going to be able to follow through on all of this.


He will... I don't even know where the game is. Husband hid it.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

farmpony84 said:


> He lost his video games today... So... no phone. no video games.
> 
> he's actually been pretty pleasant to be around. He's so far taking it all in stride...



I'm almost wondering if he has found a way to get around this stuff, like borrowing something from a friend and using it at night, or whatever. I found with my crafty teens that they could borrow or sneak around things so I had to be on my toes. If he is taking it that well, I would be suspicious.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Whinnie said:


> I'm almost wondering if he has found a way to get around this stuff, like borrowing something from a friend and using it at night, or whatever. I found with my crafty teens that they could borrow or sneak around things so I had to be on my toes. If he is taking it that well, I would be suspicious.



I don't think so yet. I also deleted his snapchat and instagram accounts. That did not go over so well but it is what it is. I actually think that he's more relaxed without the phone. He moved the landline into his bedroom but that's fine. He has to actually talk to people with that one. He watched the Jurrasic World movie last night and when I checked on him he was actually doing his homework. I think the distractions were too much. I think he may actually be happier now. Of course it's only been a full week.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

He found his playstation. He called me to tell me he found it in the guest bathroom under the sink. I said... Why would you look for it there? And he said... it's the only place you would hide it. smart alec. Guess it's getting moved tonight!


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## AndyTheCornbread (Feb 3, 2019)

My Dad was a 6'6" triathlete, did the iron man triathlon several times etc. worked for the govt. in law enforcement and so on. He is/was also SUPER strict, you didn't cross my Dad more than once if you didn't have a high tolerance for rear end pain. My uncle whose farm we grew up on was stricter and meaner than my Dad ever was but he wasn't as strong so it didn't hurt as bad when you got a whoopin out in the calf barn for doing something you shouldn't. Which for me, was a LOT. I was NOT an easy kid and I would push boundaries and limits to the extent my butt could stand it and then I would give in, because...well it simply hurt too much to keep going down the dumb road. My personal record was 13 spankings in one day. My Dad admitted to me when I was older that, that day his arm started to get pretty tired.

My Dad had this saying and I use it on my own kids: "*disobedience is never tolerated and delayed obedience is disobedience*". If you heard him say that you had best be running to do whatever he had said or backside disaster and pain was sure to follow.

When I was in boot camp in the Marine Corps my DI told me he wanted to talk to my Dad when I graduated, so at graduation I introduced them and they went away and talked for a little bit and then came back. Afterwards I asked my Dad what he had said and my Dad said he told him that he had never had a recruit come through boot camp that had as much self discipline as I did on showing up and he wanted to know how my Dad had done it. My Dad told him that it was about consistency backed up with a solid belief in "spare the rod spoil the child". It worked on me and I was a super difficult kid. 

I used the same principles on my kids as they were growing up, they turned out great so far. Later on I inherited some step kids and they were not disciplined at all, those kids were about as useful as a knit condom. Even when they did try to do something they had zero self discipline to see it through. Asking them to do anything was about as effective as a three legged cat trying to bury a turd on a frozen lake. My wife at the time wouldn't let me discipline them as she felt I was too strict with my own kids. I often wonder if she ever regrets that as those kids have gone nowhere in life. They basically started at the bottom and have been digging ever since. I'm glad I don't have to deal with them anymore.

It sounds like you are in the process of turning your own situation around for the better. Good for you! and for your son. He will appreciate it when he grows up. Take heart in the fact that this stage doesn't last forever and taking charge and demanding accountability gets easier the more you do it. Just do it consistently, every time, kids like horses and dogs respond well to consistency.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> He found his playstation. He called me to tell me he found it in the guest bathroom under the sink. I said... Why would you look for it there? And he said... it's the only place you would hide it. smart alec. Guess it's getting moved tonight!



After he looks to see if you did move it. Sneak it back under the sink.

Or tell him who did hide it and leave it there as temptation to see if he will obey not to hook it back up. And put out the hints that if he isn't responsible to do his chores he probably would not be responsible driving a car when he gets his license. Getting a drivers license is the all time coolest thing for a teenager..


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

True story that @farmpony84 will totally understand! 

I sent out commendation letters for my high schoolers once a term, and usually, at least two thirds of the class got one - as they were also house-trained to a work ethic and respectful, considerate behaviour in their first term, so there were then always genuine things to praise.

One day I had a phonecall from a parent. "My kid got a commendation letter and it says here, 'Works conscientiously, is always polite and helpful, a pleasure to teach.' You sure you got the right kid?"

I was indeed! "Well, my kid isn't like that at home, would you like to adopt them?"

:rofl:

Thinking about this, I remarked to a Year 8 class (13-year-olds), who were cleaning up the science laboratory after an experiment and did a great job (they'd learnt they could get it spotless in the allocated clean-up time, or come back at recess or lunch in their own time to do this - you only have to do that once...), "This is great! Are your bedrooms at home as clean as this?" and there were a lot of giggles. :rofl: And I'd go, "Well, if not, why not?" etc - they never knew if I was serious or tongue-in-cheek, but it got them thinking. I'd say things like, "I had a classmate when I was at school who had mouldy half-drunk chocolate milks under his bed. That was so disgusting! We don't have anyone here like that, do we?" :Angel: etc

I'd also innocently ask them things like, "Did you make breakfast in bed for your parents on the weekend?" :Angel: and get a similar wave of amusement from them... 

It's so much easier as a teacher to have a good relationship with teenagers, than it is for parents. Teachers don't have them all day (we have four to five batches a day for specialist subjects), nor do we have them in our homes or private spaces, and they don't leave dirty socks on our floor. It's a workplace, and with teenagers, it generally works really well to treat them like responsible adults, as many of them actually enjoy being at, or rising to, that level - but to have instant and consistent consequences for undesirable behaviour, and to set the bar for that really high from the go-get. Then you can be really positive, and have increasing amounts of things to appreciate and praise and reward, as well.

Hang in there, @farmpony84! When kids being house-trained in Term 1 said to me, "You're so mean, Miss!" I'd say, "Yeah, they taught us that at university, and I got an A for it, bwahahaha, and I've got even more tricks up my sleeve, would you like to try some of them?" :rofl:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> He found his playstation. He called me to tell me he found it in the guest bathroom under the sink. I said... Why would you look for it there? And he said... it's the only place you would hide it. smart alec. Guess it's getting moved tonight!


He's good. He thinks this is a game and now he's got you playing by his rules. I would remark after I moved, that if he went searching for it again the final move would be to the trash. If he's playing games and looking for his stuff that you've taken away, he's obviously not busy enough.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

I still think he is getting by with a little help from his friends.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I also got him to leave the ugly Mr. T. chain at home. I hate that thing.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

farmpony84 said:


> Did I mention that without his phone he has no music? Well... I did feel bad over that because he does have an hour bus ride. So... I gave him my old iPOD.... It has nothing but country music on it. Hank, Waylon, George Jones, George Straight... Sammy Kershaw, Aaron Tippon.... I mean, it has some new stuff too like Rodney Atkins and Jason Aldean... but their AINT no stinkin' rap music on it! LOL... Ima turn him around fer sure!


This reminds me of the high school teacher in New York who ran organised collective detentions, which in my experience don't work, they become like guerilla clubs. Anyway, he made collective detention extremely effective by playing his Frank Sinatra records to the students! :rofl: And after that, it was no longer cool to be in the collective detention room, and kids began to actually avoid being sent there! :Angel:


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> He found his playstation. He called me to tell me he found it in the guest bathroom under the sink. I said... Why would you look for it there? And he said... it's the only place you would hide it. smart alec. Guess it's getting moved tonight!



Or you can tell him the next time he's goes looking for it, it's getting "moved" to Craigslist.......


If he's not supposed to have it, he's not supposed to have it.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I have to say @whinny may be right. Here I know that kids will lend others iPods sometimes if their parents don’t let them have a phone. Mine don’t have their own phones, so I try to watch, but they do have iPods so they hopefully aren’t going around the rules.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Whinnie said:


> I still think he is getting by with a little help from his friends.


I'm thinkin' you're right. He doesn't seem near enough upset about all this to not be cheating the system somehow. Buts, the point is, he doesn't have HIS stuff. Can't control all his friends too.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

Maybe go to teen talk and ask how would a kid by pass parents taking phone etc.. away. If they will snitch. LOL.....

I don't know about the newer phones but my son would take the sims card out his broken phone and buy a $10 phone insert sims card and had a working phone again.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

RegalCharm said:


> Maybe go to teen talk and ask how would a kid by pass parents taking phone etc.. away. If they will snitch. LOL.....












But I don't have a phone anyway lol, so don't ask me


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## GMA100 (Apr 8, 2016)

RegalCharm said:


> Maybe go to teen talk and ask how would a kid by pass parents taking phone etc.. away. If they will snitch. LOL.....



I will snitch and say that I’d be afraid to do that. I have never had my phone taken away, but when I had a ipad at the age of 12-15 it was taken away maybe 4 times for about 2-5 days. It wasn’t like I NEEDED a device, so it didn’t hurt me and I honestly wouldn’t have thought about borrowing a friends. There was a few times when I was told to stay off the internet for the whole day and only once did I not obey and that was simply cause I HAD to write something, so my parents let that pass. If I was treading on ice, I’d put my iPad up and do a bunch of work till I was in a safe zone again. 
It’s not like my parents didn’t discipline or anything, they did quite often when I was younger. I’d be made to do a few extra chores and prolly got my backside whooped every now and then too. 

Honestly, I don’t think he’s using a friends phone. He could just be like I was and suck it up and go along with the punishment case there’s nothing else to do. The quieter and more complient you are, the sooner you get your stuff back.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I keep surfing instagram and snapchat looking for a username that is close to his to see if he's started new accounts... and I'm looking at his friends "friends list" to see if I can see someone that could be him. So far I haven't found anything.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I keep surfing instagram and snapchat looking for a username that is close to his to see if he's started new accounts... and I'm looking at his friends "friends list" to see if I can see someone that could be him. So far I haven't found anything.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

So @farmpony84... how is it going with you son?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

He is actually much happier without the phone and social media. Grades are up and he's been much easier going. Still not cleaning his room or helping around the house the way he should but progress....


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

When my nieces were staying with me and they wanted things like your son wants, I would just tell them "Wow, that's pretty nice, I would want it to if I were you. Let me know if you need any suggestions on how you can get it." They used to get so frustrated with me, oh well. 

Don't get me wrong, I did give them things but it was when I wanted to and it felt good to do it.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

It was no good fighting my mother - you were on a loosing battle. 

She wouldn't argue. She would just state a fact and if you didn't comply then a punishment was earned. This could be a grounding, as in not allowed out to play when younger or, go out in the evening of older. If you argued with the punishment then all she would do was increase the grounding length! 

Anyone who stayed was treated as part of the family. One lad, aged about 18 was lodging with us whilst the gas company were changing the system to natural gas. He arrived Sunday evening from the mainland and went home the following Friday. His room was a t the top of the house.m

Dad would wake us with a cup of tea, mum would cook breakfast and then call us when it was ready. This lad would not get up and when the van arrived to pick him up he wasn't ready so, delayed all in starting work. 

When he came back for his second week my mother looked up at him and said, "I am telling you that I am not walking up two flights of stairs time and time again to call you. You will get up when you are first called *or ELSE!"*

I warned him she meant it. 

Dad woke us. When I went downstairs he was still in bed. I warned him mum meant it. He just ignored me. 

Jane and I left for work and mum went into the yard, filled a pan with water from the but which, as it was winter was cold, went up the stairs and next thing we heard was a yell and mum saying, "I warned you!"

He was never late up again. 

Like GMA100 I would suck up punishment, it was usually earned and arguing just increased the length!


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> He is actually much happier without the phone and social media. Grades are up and he's been much easier going. Still not cleaning his room or helping around the house the way he should but progress....


It is good his grades are up . Kids don't realize how much good grades help them after school is finished. Maybe try asking him for a favor like Would you Straighten up your room for me today. Small steps equal miles.





LoriF said:


> When my nieces were staying with me and they wanted things like your son wants, I would just tell them "Wow, that's pretty nice, I would want it to if I were you. Let me know if you need any suggestions on how you can get it." They used to get so frustrated with me, oh well.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I did give them things but it was when I wanted to and it felt good to do it.



I remember my oldest son. He was working at a fast food place while he was in High School and I was hauling him back and forth which really got to be a lot of hassle sometimes. So after high school . when we both had a day off together we took a ride and stopped at a used car lot (he had no idea what I was going to do) We looked at cars and he found this used pickup . Since he was now working full time at the burger place I told the salesman to put it in his name and I would co-sign his loan Everything worked out good and he drove the truck home. He felt so good . thanked me and said he never expected to get something so nice for his first vehicle. Then I told him the first payment he missed the truck was MINE He never missed a payment and paid it off ahead of time.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have been asking him to clean his room for 2 weeks. Today I gave him 3 days to get it clean. I toldhim I want to see progress each day. So today he through his dirty clothes in a bin and put them right outside his door and said he was done for the day. I got a little mad. I told him he had a choice. clean the room or lose the video game. And that was all I said. If the room isn't clenaed in the 3 day time frame then the game is gone and I don't even feel guilty.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> I have been asking him to clean his room for 2 weeks. Today I gave him 3 days to get it clean. I toldhim I want to see progress each day. So today he through his dirty clothes in a bin and put them right outside his door and said he was done for the day. I got a little mad. I told him he had a choice. clean the room or lose the video game. And that was all I said. If the room isn't clenaed in the 3 day time frame then the game is gone and I don't even feel guilty.


Good for you. Firm, fair and consistent..


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## MissLulu (Feb 3, 2019)

I took away my daughter's smart phone a week and a half ago and I got rid of it because I knew she would nag me to death and there was a 90% chance I would give in. And I did get almost four hours of begging for the phone and I didn't give in because there was no phone (daughter doesn't know that). It has been so relaxing without that phone. If she sleeps in on the weekend I know she is sleeping and not on her phone and at night I know she is going to sleep (or reading or drawing) and not on the stupid phone. I plan to tell her in the next week that she will be getting a phone that she can make phone calls and text, that is it. And since she used to listen to music on her phone she now will have to listen to music on an I-Pod. 



Three days to clean a room is very generous. I'm glad you aren't going to feel guilty if he has to suffer the consequences of his actions.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

MissLulu said:


> Three days to clean a room is very generous. I'm glad you aren't going to feel guilty if he has to suffer the consequences of his actions.


You probably would not say that if you saw the state of the room. He has already removed 4 bags of trash and probably has about 8 more to go. I will be doing about 10 loads of laundry and there is probably a load of dishes in there...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> You probably would not say that if you saw the state of the room. He has already removed 4 bags of trash and probably has about 8 more to go. I will be doing about 10 loads of laundry and there is probably a load of dishes in there...


Why are YOU doing HIS laundry & dishes? He's certainly old enough to do that on his own.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

At age 15 he should be able to do the dishes himself. He needs to learn to take responsibility & clean up after himself, rather than assuming mom will do it for him. & if he put his mind to it, I'm sure could clean it up in less than 3 days. No excuses!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Why are YOU doing HIS laundry & dishes? He's certainly old enough to do that on his own.


 Yep. I'd include the laundry and dishes in 'clean your room'. He's plenty old enough to do his own laundry and wash plates. If he has so many clothes he can let things pile up for weeks before needing to do laundry, he has too many clothes. It might be time to pare down to 10 days' worth and he can earn back anything else he must have. Donate the rest. Having too many clothes seems to be problematic for a lot of teens, and results in messy rooms and stinky stuff because it's overwhelming. If he has four pair of jeans and they're all dirty, well, he can either buy himself more clothing or wash what he has. A friend of mine gave her two teens three sets of colored plates-- her son has blue and her daughter chose orange. Those are the plates they use outside of family meals. When they're all dirty, it's pretty obvious and they go to their rooms and around the house, pick up their plates, and wash them. My mom had a rule that any dishes left in rooms was $1 fine per piece if she found them in our rooms. A glass, plate, and fork was $3. We learned pretty quickly to put dishes back in the kitchen. 

Please don't let him turn into the college acquaintance of mine who had so many clothes he never did laundry, and took them home to wash over Christmas break and then had enough to last until summer without ever having to touch the washing machine. He got a divorce last year because his ex-wife got really tired of working full-time, taking care of two kids, and doing all of his laundry and dishes, too. I don't think he ever vacuumed, loaded the dishwasher, or cleaned anything. He viewed his role in the family as working, taking out the garbage, and mowing the lawn. Everything else was up to her. He's had a rude awakening now that he's living alone and has to actually take care of things himself.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

When in school you learn the lesson and then take a test. After that Life gives you a test and then you learn the lesson.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

I'm recycling this post from somewhere else this has come up, as it fits in nicely here too.


*SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT?*

While preparing some soup this morning, my husband and I talked about how it is that a sense of entitlement gets created in people. Compare and contrast some aspects of his upbringing with some of mine, and you will appreciate some of the reasons for the huge difference in attitude between my husband and my uber-entitled brother. My husband always pitches in, my brother enjoys having people wait on him hand and foot - not as an occasional treat, but as a general principle, and he feels no need to return the favour.

My husband was one of two boys. I've no idea how things would have been different if there had been a girl born to the family, but these two boys were pitching in with the washing-up, vacuuming, floor mopping and cooking from the go-get, and did their own laundry from the time they were teenagers. They weren't more important than anybody else, and the household jobs got shared pretty equally.

In my family of origin there was one firstborn son, and me. I never saw my brother do dishes in the family household, or mop floors, or hang out washing. He usually sat around watching television or listening to his latest upgraded hi-fi system while other people did the work. I was required to pitch in with serving up, clearing the table and washing up, but not that precious boy, he wasn't supposed to get his fingers dirty. He turned into an insufferable little prince. He was still living at home having his cut lunch made for him and all his cooking done for him, at the age of 33. He argued about being asked to pitch in to pay for groceries, although he earnt well. My mother was still making his bed, and if I was visiting, early in the mornings when I woke up, I'd hear the familiar refrain of, "Darling, can I bring you a cup of tea to bed?" and my mother wasn't talking to her husband, or to me for that matter.

My brother was _paid_ to do "important" work like the business accounting and technical stuff, from the time he was a teenager. "Women's work" was considered generally unimportant - women were basically scullions and general servants. My mother thought it was unnatural and unfeminine that I was excelling at science and maths, at school. When I was sent to stay with my brother in an apartment during the week when he was at university and I was starting Senior High School in the city, he said to me, "Good, now you can do the cleaning." I went:







...and informed him that _if_ and only if he deigned to clean up the year's mess he had made in the apartment since starting at university, I would _consider_ taking turns. Meanwhile, I was going to be in my room, which I was keeping clean, and he could live in his mess everywhere else if he chose. There were dead slaters and spiders piled up on the lounge carpet, to give you an idea. I stayed in my room and got on with the business of doing well at school and getting my ticket out of that family.

I don't think everyone necessarily has to do 50% of every job. I think division of labour, even as in one person keeping house and the other going to an office, is fine as long as we don't mandate which is which by gender, as long as both people are happy, and as long as neither person thinks that what they are doing is more important than what the other person is doing. That's partnership just as much as splitting everything down 50% would be. I spent some of my childhood living in Italy, at a time where there was a traditional division of labour, but the women in our neighbourhood weren't treated as minions - their cooking was really appreciated, as was their gardening and all their other efforts. It was the same when I worked in Sydney and met a Lebanese family, with whom I ate some weekends - they grew their own vegetables in their backyard, the mother did the cooking, but everybody was basically applauding at the table and paying compliments. I'm sure not every Italian or Middle Eastern family is great that way, but it was nice to meet some.

The basic problem is people looking down their noses at others, and also, in cases I've seen, people raising people to look down their noses at others. It's not always done consciously - much of it can be cultural habit, but if we don't want to have entitled princes and princesses in our lives, we need to reflect on the way we ourselves might have been brainwashed, and stop letting other people think they are more important than us. It's a process, and it helps to do it supported.

Best wishes to all of you.


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