# Your suggestions for Parelli or Anderson or any other "good" ones?



## dejavuchicka (Feb 27, 2012)

So, there is a lot of talk on this forum about trainers and methods and I want to learn all I can!! I know the Monty Roberts join-up well, I tried it on my lesson horse and it went phenomenally, so of course I want to know all I can. The only thing is its difficult to learn about these methods unless you buy their dvd's :-? I have heard of horseflix, but I'm struggling to even pay for lessons right now being a full time college student and having a part time job. I found a lot on youtube for Monty Roberts methods, but I'm having a difficult time with the rest.

I'm looking for methods that refer to how to get respect, or even groundwork methods, or anything else that you may find interesting!! Its so sad you have to pay so much money to learn how to work WITH these amazing animals instead of against them, but I guess horse trainers have to eat too. :wink:

Any videos you guys may have stumbled across that you learned a lot from would be great!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Just get on youtube and look up the various trainer's names. On the side menu you'll be able to pick out what you want.


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## tbstorm (Dec 16, 2010)

I have just started and i'm working off Parelli and Jonathan Field. If you google road to the horse that will give you 6 great horsemen to check out.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I like Clinton Anderson and his methods. He's easy to understand and follow. He has a web site, I think it's downunderhorsemanship.com. You can pay a monthly membership and watch as many videos as you want. I think it's only 19.99/month. He also has a show on RFDTV. That's what I watch. It covers it mostly but leaves a little out. You might be able to find some DVDs on eBay too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

I think Rick Gore is great to learn a few things from. Lots on info on why your horse does what he does, info on herd behaviour, pressure and release, horse interaction, and how the usual ''don't do that's'' are defied. There's alot of free info there that other trainers can't or won't tell you.


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## Calash (Mar 21, 2012)

I got Clinton Anderson's book and watch him on rfd-tv, I JUST started, I was looking into Parelli, but personally I prefer Clinton, I haven't tried anything yet and am starting lessons with my horse next month. I agree the dvd's are crazy expensive, I would keep checking craigslist and ebay for the dvd's, I almost bought them on ebay but my paypal account is all messed up. If you can't afford lessons, maybe joining his website would be a great alternative as well. =) Good luck!!

Oh I like Chris Cox as well!!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Not wanting to hijack this thread with yet another Gore bash, but one shouldn't have to wade through a ton of hateful dialog, girlish giggles and poor techniques to try to find one little glimmer of useful information, IMO.


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## jennyandjesse (Oct 20, 2011)

Here in MN, we have a statewide library loan system. That is where I find my horse training videos. They may be older, but you can still learn a thing or two.


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## Fargosgirl (Jan 12, 2012)

I like Denis Reis, he also has a club and system of dvds. What I've seen of Stacey Westfall I really like. I'm not a big fan of John Lyons, but I have used some of his methods very successfully. But of those my favourite is definitely Denis Reis.


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## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Clinton Anderson and ken Mcnab. I like them both


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## Island Horselover (Apr 4, 2012)

I like the basics of Pat and Jonathan but in the end you will find out what works best for you and your horse and as each horse is different it is a good idea to check out youtube and get some ideas and understandings and practice it with your horse and see how it is going. Me and my partner trained horses for years and every time we realize that each horse needs to be treated differently! I have no certification and I believe that the result of my horses behaviour is my certification. Find out what it takes to be the leader in the relationship with your horse and have a firm but understanding hand! You will enjoy working this way with your horse and in my opinion it is not just a way of training your horse it kind of is a lifestyle! Love what you do and be patient with yourself and the horse. Enjoy it and take your time! I am sure you will soon find out what works best for you and your horse and I would love the hear of some results :0) Cheers and enjoy the training!!!!!


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

I totally agree Island Horselover!
Youtube (or _''Youboob''_ as some adolescents like to call it :lol is great. There is so much information readily available nowadays. Learning never stops no matter what level you are at. Enjoy the journey and listen to your horse.


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## ktrolson (Feb 13, 2009)

For the money, as mentioned by usandpets, the Clinton Anderson No Worries Club would be a great option. For about $20/month, you can log on any time and visit the forums, watch TV shows, DVDs and a question and answer page. There are two complete series of taking a horse from round penning to saddle trained. The "Trickey" series and the "Cider" series. I have been a member for 3 years now and am totally addicted!


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

I don't follow one particular trainer. But from what I have seen (and I've seen alot) Chris Cox is my personal favorite...not trying to start another bash thread (as there are MANY already) but I would avoid Rick Gore like the plague if I were you. He just called me an idiot on youtube for asking a simple question that he could not obviously answer. Very professional, SMH!!


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## sherkad25 (Aug 10, 2010)

There are a few on HRTV that seem pretty worthwhile. I've learned quite a bit from Richard Winters and Al Dunning. There's a ton available on youtube from trainers who have alot of knowledge and ability, but don't have quite the marketing skills as the big name people. You have to be somewhat selective and use some common sense when choosing whose methods and techniques to use. There's alot of good information available but there are also some clowns who use the round pen for a stage.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> I think Rick Gore is great to learn a few things from. Lots on info on why your horse does what he does, info on herd behaviour, pressure and release, horse interaction, and how the usual ''don't do that's'' are defied. There's alot of free info there that other trainers can't or won't tell you.


 
That man is the worst trainer I have ever seen. He has no seat no hands and his horses are disrespectful. what he does spout out of his mouth is stollen from other proven trainers. 

I will agree if you are wanting to learn what NOT do to he would be a good one to watch.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

If you are looking for a trainer who puts out DVDs the ones I would recomend are Les Voit, Shawn Flarida, Stacy Westfall, Al Dunning. This is just a short list but ALL these trainers are well proven that what they do work. It is not just a sales gimmic it works.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*Horse trainers*

It really is all about your horse and what you as a rider want from it and what you are both capable of at any point in time. If you search a particular thing on Youtube you will get more results than you can 'shake a stick at'. Be selective and go for the ones that make things plain and clear to understand and a good trainer is one who's own horses and riding are a testimony to him/her. You might find that taking different things from different videos works best for you and your horse
Beware there are a LOT of smoke & mirror tricks out there and many of the horses they use in these videos are already well trained, very smart or very placid. Dont be depressed if you don't get immediate results, these guys have been doing this stuff for years and know all the tricks, they also know how to stay out of trouble. What some horses can pick up in a few hours others can take months which is when having a fresh approach from a new source can come in really handy
I will also echo some other remarks made here - avoid *Rick Gore* unless you just want to become part of a fan club that hates anyone who doesn't share his narrow minded opinions.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm a die hard fan of Carolyn Resnick's and Cynthia Royal's methods which are similar. This is all based on trust, not just compliance, the direction the Parelli's are now teaching.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I follow Parelli mostly but ive looked into several others. I like the way their system is laid out as it is easy to follow and they really break it down.
My suggestion, however, would be to look into as many as you can, take what you feel you can use/ what makes sense to you and apply it. Dont follow just one trainer like a cult memer. They ALL have good and bad points.
Youtube is a good place to start, but many of them dont have indepth vidoes on them, usually just the training showing what their horse can do.
Books are also a good, cheap way to get a foothold in any NH program. This way you can decide whether you like the persons methods before going further with your money


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

I like John Lyons . He keeps it simple and and is there for the horse not the money.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*Which trainer*



Critter sitter said:


> I like John Lyons . He keeps it simple and and is there for the horse not the money.


 I'm not saying if I am for or against the man but if you work with horses to make a living you have to put food on your table and hay in the racks so money always has to rear its ugly head somewhere


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

jaydee said:


> I'm not saying if I am for or against the man but if you work with horses to make a living you have to put food on your table and hay in the racks so money always has to rear its ugly head somewhere


 
While I agree with this there are some of these Clinitions that do not push their stuff as much at others. Lyons I do not even think he has anything he pushed. 

OThers have stuff but you do not really see them pushing it while others that is all it is about selling their stuff.


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

nrhareiner said:


> While I agree with this there are some of these Clinitions that do not push their stuff as much at others. Lyons I do not even think he has anything he pushed.
> 
> OThers have stuff but you do not really see them pushing it while others that is all it is about selling their stuff.


He does have headstall and signature reins but he does not push them like some I have seen. I love his reins and use them. Not exclusively but I do use them. He does hold clinics and has wrote some books but as I said it is not a lot of huge deals and not all for money.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

jaydee said:


> I'm not saying if I am for or against the man but if you work with horses to make a living you have to put food on your table and hay in the racks so money always has to rear its ugly head somewhere


Yes you have to have some money but he is very humble
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*Trainers*

I wasn't actually being critical of John Lyons - so sorry if you thought I was. I dont know enough about him to pass opinion. He was at the Equine Affaire near us last year and he did seem very modest and chatted with us - interested that we were from the UK I think. His horses were very relaxed and comfortable around him which always speaks volumes for me.
What I was trying to say was that if you make a living out of horses then for the good of those horses and in order to survive you have to make money.
There's a huge difference between making enough to comfortably get along and turning the whole thing into a massive marketing circus


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

I agree Jaydee And I was saying so  He is also Not NH


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Information is information, no matter where it comes from. And if you understand it and find positivity in it and apply it and it works for you and your horse, then great! At the end of the day it's all about *the horse* and they are our greatest teachers, because the horse always has the right answers to teach us properly.
But be wary of the ones who are trying to convince you.

Another website I personally love which I have linked from my own website is Less Is More Horse HomePage 
There are alot of good articles on there and alot of links to other 'NH' sites too.


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## Goosey (Oct 23, 2011)

Just skimmed through all the posts so apologies if i double over what anyone else has said, but try not to stick to just one trainer and become devoted to following their exact steps. Find what works for your horse, take what you feel is right from a multitude of different trainers. Try and develop your own style- not everything works for every horse!
For something different, look up Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling and search working with horses at liberty. There is some truly amazing stuff to be found!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*using information*



ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Information is information, no matter where it comes from. And if you understand it and find positivity in it and apply it and it works for you and your horse, then great! At the end of the day it's all about *the horse* and they are our greatest teachers, because the horse always has the right answers to teach us properly.
> But be wary of the ones who are trying to convince you.
> 
> Another website I personally love which I have linked from my own website is Less Is More Horse HomePage
> There are alot of good articles on there and alot of links to other 'NH' sites too.


 Hi Essex girl!!!!
Love your art work by the way
Yes you are right - information is information unfortunately there is so much crap out there - 13 year old girls giving advice on Youtube etc and if you know nothing then how do you know what's good and whats bad?
A lot of people are making bad choices and their horse usually pays the price for it
I did find the website interesting - he doesn't try to say that its possible to do some things with all horses - which I like, he seems to have a similar style to Hempfling, especially with his thoughts on round penning (done incorrectly) Apart for the people in the UK who bought into the Monty Roberts/Parelli thing when it hit the country the US style of round penning is pretty alien, horsemen/women managed to successfully produce safe sound riding horses in a calm, kind way for many many years without it so continue to do so. It is not the one solution to everything. I also liked his comments on the 'respect' thing - again it doesn't all come down to lack of respect, its often down to the horse just not having a clue what you're asking for because your direction and previous training was totally lacking
I can't say that I would agree with all his ideas but he doesn't seem to have that forceful, bully boy approach so I'm good with that
Hope your horse(s) are coping with all the rain you're getting over there - its going to make for a very muddy winter!!


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

My suggestion for Parelli is no. Don't. Aside Amish, I have retrained many Parelli horses.

I've never gotten any other "natural horsemanship" horses to retrain other than Parelli, and when the Parelli horses come to me, they've been confused and trashed.

I don't follow the natural horsemanship people but I have heard good things about Lyons.

I've never gotten in a Lyons horse or a Ga Wa Ni horse or an Anderson horse in to retrain, which makes me believe that there is something plausible to their training, and it's only a matter of opinion on which one you like better. However, I have had many trashed and ruined Parelli horses in. So stay away from that guy.

ETA: I don't know what Parelli does to the horses that the other programs don't do. I don't study them and frankly, when I did try to study Parelli, none of it made sense, I saw a confused horse (off his professional videos) and the DVD made me so ill I had to turn it off. Parelli personally told a client of ours to put down her horse because he was so dangerous. He was retrained by my instructor and is now a 5ft jumper in Florida. 

I don't train anymore except for my own horse. But the worst ones I've had to retrain were the Amish and Parelli horses. Never had a horse from another natural horsemanship program come in.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

jaydee said:


> Hi Essex girl!!!!
> Love your art work by the way
> Yes you are right - information is information unfortunately there is so much crap out there - 13 year old girls giving advice on Youtube etc and if you know nothing then how do you know what's good and whats bad?
> A lot of people are making bad choices and their horse usually pays the price for it
> ...


Hey,
Thanks for the compliment about my artwork.

Yes, there is a lot of crap out there, and I guess its down to the individual to question and separate for themselves the good from the bad.
I agree with you about the bad advice and that horses pay every time for their owners decisions, (whether good or bad in the owner’s mind.) For instance, there are people in favour of clicker training and there are those who are dead against it and both get results, so WHO IS ANYONE to judge and say YOU ARE WRONG just because they THINK so, even if you are 13 or 60! Experience is good but it doesn’t necessarily make you good. There’s a girl on youtube called Eva Roemaat and she’s only 19 and IMO shes a better horsewoman than many older people I’ve come across who’ve been around horses their whole life!
NO predator human is THE HORSE GOD to judge right or wrong. These beautiful animals pay for our want to be with them, to ride them, to make our mistakes with them etc.
However, IMO even if someone _thinks_ they know everything or ‘enough’ to give advice, I absolutely, 100%, believe in thinking that you should still have the open-minded attitude that you will never know enough, that ONE'S opinion is not THE absolute definite. ‘Real knowledge is to know the extent of your ignorance!’

And yeah, there are some things I don’t agree with on that website, but you know, I respect that’s his way how he does things and Im not going to email him and give him negative unwanted advice or argue with him and tell him he’s an idiot simply because his way isn’t my way. Because I know I’ll never know it all or know enough, because at the end of the day, I’m just a human.

Oh and I don’t live in the UK anymore. I live in the scorching Med  and it's way too hot out here but I really would love some rain!!!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*good & bad advice*



ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> Hey,
> Thanks for the compliment about my artwork.
> 
> Yes, there is a lot of crap out there, and I guess its down to the individual to question and separate for themselves the good from the bad.
> ...


 I think I have been using 'clicker training' forever - long before anyone ever called it that!!!
I admire Eva Roemaat - she's a great example of someone giving options and showing how much can be achieved using a particular style. If people want to do something 'different' then why not if its what makes them and their horse happy and no one is getting hurt. All good to them. There is a young man from the Netherlands called Bart Driessen who was having lessons with her this year - he doesn't give out instruction or advice and rides mostly bareback & in a halter though he did have jumping lessons when he was younger - he is such a talented rider and can do more riding like that than most people could ever achieve in a saddle & bridle.
Dont blame you for moving to the Med - apart from the dry spell - at least you aren't going rusty in all that rain!!


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

I know Bart Driessen's channel. I think he is great. And Tosca is just beautiful!  He also likes Rick Gore just as I do.  And some others too and I'm lucky to be in the same facebook group as him, but I won't say much more because I have no idea if he would be ok about me talking about him, so I won't say anything. All I could ever say about him is praise 

But re: the rust. We do get rust unfortunately because we live right by the sea (salty air) and I'm on the coast. Not complaining though! I love where I live.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr said:


> I know Bart Driessen's channel. I think he is great. And Tosca is just beautiful!  He also likes Rick Gore just as I do.  And some others too and I'm lucky to be in the same facebook group as him, but I won't say much more because I have no idea if he would be ok about me talking about him, so I won't say anything. All I could ever say about him is praise
> 
> But re: the rust. We do get rust unfortunately because we live right by the sea (salty air) and I'm on the coast. Not complaining though! I love where I live.


 Yes she is a lovely horse - a great example of how an arabxfriesan can work - these arabfriesan crosses sometimes seem to go all the wrong way and the horses look quite ugly.
Yes I know he is an RG fan - I dont hold that against him!!! I know he's also a fan of Blaha & Hempfling who I think he is very much like in his quiet body language, relationship with his horse and amazing balance and lightness. He did learn to ride when he was young bareback and bridleless which has helped him a lot.
I do keep up on his progress as I think he'll go far but as far as I'm concerned his personal life - like everyone elses is his own - he doesn't put out any sort of advice or opinion on his channel so deserves his privacy!!!


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## HorseCrazyTeen (Jul 29, 2012)

I do not like Parelli! I tried doing Parelli once and had to listen to a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, test everything on people first, right brain-left brain garbage before he and Linda even got to the horses. (And in the videos it is mostly Linda and almost never Pat). I have heard that many of the horses they train have problems that can make them dangerous at times. 

To be fair, Pat Parelli is a much better horseman than his wife, and in fact if he were the one giving the instructions (and not trying to sell all his wares), people might like him a lot better. He sounds like a used car salesman now--when he was younger and not married he was very different. As for Linda, there are videos on YouTube of her beating a half blind horse whose head was tied very close to a tree that didn't understand what she was "asking" it to do... because it couldn't see! She was slapping and punching him in the face! :shock: 

So upsetting. 

I really really like Clinton Anderson, Stacy Westfall, John Lyons, and Cris Cox. And of those my favorite is Clinton Anderson. He is straight to the point, easy to understand, and what he does works. Some people say he's rough but I don't think so at all. Watch horses play with each other in the pasture... now THAT is rough. But Clinton is never mean. He says, "Be as easy as possible and as firm as necessary." I love his videos. I own his three groundwork DVDs and they are discriptive and effective.

He also uses the worst horses he can find to show you what to do in his videos, not some super well-trained horse that makes everything look like a piece of cake. Well... he does use his own good horses for demonstrations but that's it. He also is open minded and willing to learn other new things (he never heard of a gaited horse until he came to the U.S., and he took the time to learn about them). He has had other horse trainers on his TV show doing things. (I like the ones where he has this really good trick horse trainer). I think Clinton Anderson is great at what he does! 

Stacy Westfall is fun to watch, and I've learned from the others I've listed also.

Clicker training-- this works really well for my minis. And my dogs for that matter. My Walker wasn't trained with clickers.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

HorseCrazyTeen said:


> I do not like Parelli! I tried doing Parelli once and had to listen to a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, test everything on people first, right brain-left brain garbage before he and Linda even got to the horses. (And in the videos it is mostly Linda and almost never Pat). I have heard that many of the horses they train have problems that can make them dangerous at times.
> 
> To be fair, Pat Parelli is a much better horseman than his wife, and in fact if he were the one giving the instructions (and not trying to sell all his wares), people might like him a lot better. He sounds like a used car salesman now--when he was younger and not married he was very different. As for Linda, there are videos on YouTube of her beating a half blind horse whose head was tied very close to a tree that didn't understand what she was "asking" it to do... because it couldn't see! She was slapping and punching him in the face! :shock:
> 
> So upsetting.



What's the video of Linda called? Is it youtube?


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## HorseCrazyTeen (Jul 29, 2012)

Whoa, went to go find it for you and it's been removed from YouTube. I saw this from someone else's comments:

"I agree with katchkittie...and I am finished with Parelli...it all goes in the bin...natural﻿ horsemanship should be kind at all times and they are only in it for the money! Shame on you! The fact the video was removed from youtube says it all!!"

I will see if I can find that video elsewhere online. It used to be all over YouTube. It was SO sad to see that horse tied with its face to the tree, not seeing what she was doing or wanting, then watching her punch it in the face multiple times. I'm gonna have to stop thinking about it right this minute before I boil over lol!


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

HorseCrazyTeen said:


> Whoa, went to go find it for you and it's been removed from YouTube. I saw this from someone else's comments:
> 
> "I agree with katchkittie...and I am finished with Parelli...it all goes in the bin...natural﻿ horsemanship should be kind at all times and they are only in it for the money! Shame on you! The fact the video was removed from youtube says it all!!"
> 
> I will see if I can find that video elsewhere online. It used to be all over YouTube. It was SO sad to see that horse tied with its face to the tree, not seeing what she was doing or wanting, then watching her punch it in the face multiple times. I'm gonna have to stop thinking about it right this minute before I boil over lol!


I saw that video. She was smacking it around on the blindside and it had no clue what was happening and couldn't even see it coming. Though, it may have been a different video? I saw her trying to lunge it unsuccessfully. Her techniques weren't working because it was being lunged on the blind side, and she was frustrated becuase the horse wasnt responding, and so she shanked it around. I don't recall it being tied to a tree but that could have been later in the video, after I had turned it off.

It used to be on YouTube and then Parelli made a video in response to it (just typed words, nothing spoken).


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## HorseCrazyTeen (Jul 29, 2012)

Wow, I went to go look for a video somewhere on the internet, but apparently the Parellis have their own internet police? I don't know, but they've all been removed so far as I can tell. There are plenty of articles and discussions, though. I did also see a video of Pat Parelli being really rough with a green horse--not abusive, per se, but not giving the horse a chance at all to get introduced to a bridle. He practically wrestled the creature and forced it on the confused guy. No wonder Parelli-trained horses are spooky, dangerous things.

Okay. Enough of this subject for me.


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## HorseCrazyTeen (Jul 29, 2012)

Copperhead, there is a video on YouTube where she does actually speak. Excuses, excuses. I'm a nice person but I wanted to reach into my iMac and slap her. lol


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## Critter sitter (Jun 2, 2012)

Copperhead said:


> My suggestion for Parelli is no. Don't. Aside Amish, I have retrained many Parelli horses.
> 
> I've never gotten any other "natural horsemanship" horses to retrain other than Parelli, and when the Parelli horses come to me, they've been confused and trashed.


I agree totally. But just a FYI Lyons is not NH. that is one of the many things i like about him..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Geesh...that's so sad!!!


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

here is my opinion from what i have seen and experienced..

I have been to two Dennis Reis clinics..IMO, while i think he is obviously a great trainer- he's gotten so gimmicky.. The only useful thing I got out of his first clinic was foot fall and how it applies to properly cueing your horse. The rest of the day consisted of "look what my horse can do, yours can do it too..." if you want to drop $1500 on his training DVDS (wich will most likely end up on EBAY for half price)..

I have also been to a Chris Cox clininc- Not gimmicky and Very informative!- at least he was this way when I went about 4 years ago. At the clinic he did a GREAT job of helping a few unconfidant ladies with their horses..


I like Clinton Andersons Method, but he has gotten so gimmicky as well that i only ever see him on rfd... and really if they have gotten to the point of " you CANT TRAIN YOUR HORSE PROPERLY WITH OUT MY $60 ropehalter" i start staying clear.. I am contemplating buy his book, but thats where it will end!

I Love Craig Cameron, Had his book..it was very easy to understand and he doesnt blow smoke up your but about keeping a horse that is wayyy beyond your capabilities or goals. He is very honest and open. and he doesnt attempt to get you to buy useless pieces of equipment with his name on it..

as for anything parelli...ugh. I have has personal experiences with parelli trained horses and they tend to be PUSHY. He is sooo darn gimmicky (THE WORST)..I have seen old pre linda Videos and he no doubt is a good trainer (studied tom dorrance and ray hunt- he knows his stuff), but it all has gotten lost in the "games" and being your horses friend.. and dont even get me started on the way Linda parelli advocates you ride...when ever I see her on RFD..i just cant help but laugh at her absurdness.


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

OH yes, also while at the CC clinic, he did take a jab at PP.... He was working with a colt that was getting pushy, and he wacked him with a lung whip to get his attention he then said something to the affect of "I am not one of those trainers that only punishes his horse behind the barn"... hehe.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Mr. Cox seems pretty honest! My mom just went to one of his free tour stops. Where someone donated a horse for him to work with. All for free. And he gave away bits and stuff. Pretty cool guy in my opinion!!


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

yeah he gave away stuff at the clinic i went to! I like how he isnt super expensive to sit in on aswell. that guy knows his stuff.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*Good trainers*



peppersgirl said:


> yeah he gave away stuff at the clinic i went to! I like how he isnt super expensive to sit in on aswell. that guy knows his stuff.


 I like the sound of this guy - anyone who gives away freebies is good in my books!!!
I am not too proud to beg or accept charitable donations !!!!:lol:


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

ohhh at dennis reis, if you help them pack up after the clinic, they with give you a free stringy thing to go on one of there lung whips...lol hope you bought a lung cause that string is gonna be pretty useless by itself haha...


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

their, not there lol ooopsie


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

HorseCrazyTeen said:


> Wow, I went to go look for a video somewhere on the internet, but apparently the Parellis have their own internet police? I don't know, but they've all been removed so far as I can tell. There are plenty of articles and discussions, though. I did also see a video of Pat Parelli being really rough with a green horse--not abusive, per se, but not giving the horse a chance at all to get introduced to a bridle. He practically wrestled the creature and forced it on the confused guy. No wonder Parelli-trained horses are spooky, dangerous things.
> 
> Okay. Enough of this subject for me.


There was a video where the horse wouldn't allow Pat near it's head. So Pat strapped a twitch on it and restrained one of its front legs to get the bridle on. From eye witness accounts, this went on for 2 hours.






Theres the video. Nothing appears overly excitable, but its definitely NOT working (especially if it went on for 2 hours). 

On another line, same subject, this is why I don't like the seminars where someone takes an untrained horse and trains in to ride within the specific time period. It pushes the animal too fast, and nothing good comes out of that.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

Here is a video explaining what happened, from Pat Parelli.






He tells us in the video that no one works harder than he does to make the world a better place for horses, and thats arrogance to me. He should at least appreciate and encourage other natural trainers because they, too, are trying to accomplish the same task.

He then goes on to explain that Catwalk was more difficult than anyone had ever expected and was the most extreme horses he's ever worked with(in 30 years).

He didn't appear that difficult to me. But then, we DID get a horse in who Pat, himself, told the owner to put down because he was too difficult. So Pat's level of difficulty may not be up to par with everyone else's.

He then goes on to say that he had to make Catwalk realize that bridling shouldn't be a fear. So lets teach him its not scary by restraining him with a twitch and taking a leg from him, shall we?

Really, it was an over-all blumber that could have been avoided with other, more patient techniques if Pat believed in them and didn't work in a time frame. He tells us the horse was fine with the bridle after that.

Sure, ok. He's fine with a bridle after that. But I bet he would have been fine with a bridle if he had a week of consistant training as well.

The one with Linda beating a blind horse, and Pat's explination on that video, have disappeared. Probably because he can't explain away the actions and blame the horse. It was entirely human error that even an idiot can see.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*parelli & catwalk*

If a horse needs time to get around these things then you give it time and do things slowly. This was just evidence to me that these sort of trainers are fine with your basic green or slightly awkward horses but as soon as they get faced with a real problem their quick fix techniques dont work. he should have walked away and admitted to the audience that the horse was beyond his methods
Our Irish Draft mare came to us with a bridling issue that all centred around her dislike of having her ears touched, she would go straight into defence mode and throw herself about. her previous owner used to take the bridle apart and deal with it that way & never tried to challenge her further but we took the increase a bit at a time route and she now has a bridle on like a normal horse, wears a fly mask with ear covers and last winter allowed me to clip her ears


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## unripegreenbanana (Sep 5, 2012)

Monty Roberts has a really good web site where you can sign up for 6 or 12 months and I found it was a pretty good price, he has videos which cover almost everything and you can watch as many as you want while you're signed up.
Hope this helps


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

I've seen Pat Parelli a couple times, and he was OK, I didn't see anything bad. A couple friends of mine (who are also very experienced and good trainers themselves) go out to his ranch and attend his workshops and have had great success with their horses.

I saw one of the "well known" trainers out there (a very well known one) at an Expo some years ago, he rode the crap out of the horse so badly that the horse was stumbling (this went on for way too long) and I was about ready to get up and go complain to the Expo staff, it was disturbing and horrible. Also know of someone who saw one of the other well known trainer's assistants hit the crap out of a horse at a clinic.... I am not trying to bash these guys, but people need to realize that some of the "trainers" are just gimmicky salesmen. I'd be careful trusting some of them.

I love natural horsemanship, and there are some really good trainers out there, you just have to weed out the bad ones.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Remali said:


> I've seen Pat Parelli a couple times, and he was OK, I didn't see anything bad. A couple friends of mine (who are also very experienced and good trainers themselves) go out to his ranch and attend his workshops and have had great success with their horses.
> 
> I saw one of the "well known" trainers out there (a very well known one) at an Expo some years ago, he rode the crap out of the horse so badly that the horse was stumbling (this went on for way too long) and I was about ready to get up and go complain to the Expo staff, it was disturbing and horrible. Also know of someone who saw one of the other well known trainer's assistants hit the crap out of a horse at a clinic.... I am not trying to bash these guys, but people need to realize that some of the "trainers" are just gimmicky salesmen. I'd be careful trusting some of them.
> 
> I love natural horsemanship, and there are some really good trainers out there, you just have to weed out the bad ones.


 This is why you should take up as much information as you can get from everywhere, sift through it, evalute it and question every single thing logically. Some things from one trainer might work for your horse and some of his stuff might not. Most of it has been around forever and just packaged differently - new names for old methods. I would steer clear of anyone who is only interested in 'selling' one way of doing things (his/her way) and I would never become a 'Groupie' to any trainer. There are a lot of 'smoke and mirror' tricks out there, a lot of ego's being fed and a lot of bank balances increasing. There is a lot of good info, a lot of bad info and a lot of plain mediocre nonsense. Use whats good and trash the rest - or put it on file for whenever you get a horse that it fits.


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## HighstepperLove (Aug 6, 2012)

I used to think the world of Monty Roberts, until I went to a seminar and sat in on a Q & A session. I found him to be arrogant and rude. I prefer Clint Anderson's methods at this point, but don't like how expensive it all is... I prefer to use the equipment of my choosing. I'm interested in hearing more about the Cox fellow!


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

Just a rope is all you need. CC doesn't even use a lunge whip or anything like that, just about a 10 ft lead. Do you have RFD tv? He has TONS of videos, Google him, his "club" (like CA has) is called Ride The Journey team. It's pretty awesome. But RFD tv is obviously free


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## Toymanator (Jul 31, 2009)

How about focusing on the men who Pat Parelli claims he learned his methods from. These men are Tom Dorrance, Bill Dorrance, and Ray Hunt. These are men that I have focused my horsemanship on and it has not only changed the way I work with horses, but it has changed my life.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The Parellis made a major mistake with Catwalk which they have acknowledged. They are under a lot of pressure with a large paying crowd. Overall they have done a lot to change people's thinking from using rough handling tactics to teaching in a way horses understand, step by step. I think we can forgive their one mistake.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

If looking for training info, check out Meredith Manor. Ron Meredith has numerous short training articles, easy to understand as he explains the whys. He covers both riding and groundwork. Just open Articles in the left hand menu.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Saddlebag said:


> The Parellis made a major mistake with Catwalk which they have acknowledged. They are under a lot of pressure with a large paying crowd. Overall they have done a lot to change people's thinking from using rough handling tactics to teaching in a way horses understand, step by step. I think we can forgive their one mistake.


If that was the only problem with PP I might be able to over look it but it is not.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

When I was a teenager, I thought Monty Roberts was the cats ***......until it dawned on me that he chased a mustang with a helicopter until it was so exhausted it couldn't run away when he did all that join up codswallop!!! 

That was enough to make me realize that there are snake-oil salesmen everywhere.....


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

If a trainer wants your money for a clinic they better be well proven in the show ring for what they are trying to teach you. It is just that simple. If they can not train a horse well enough to take it into a compitition and do well then they are not much of a trainer and you should not give your money to them.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

nrhareiner said:


> If a trainer wants your money for a clinic they better be well proven in the show ring for what they are trying to teach you. It is just that simple. If they can not train a horse well enough to take it into a compitition and do well then they are not much of a trainer and you should not give your money to them.


 I'm afraid that I cant have any confidence in someone who doesn't show a top example for their training and management skills. I have known retired trainers who were still proven by the performance of the people they teach and their reputation but way too many loud mouthed amateurs out there who talk the talk then collapse in a big messy heap when it comes to the real hands on stuff.
Takes a lot to impress me.


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