# Horse and Rider Critique :)



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Haven't been around here for a while, got some recent pics this morning on one of my horses. Would love some critique on her type, my riding, and anything else you can think of!


----------



## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I love how straight you line from elbow to bit is and how steady the contact is. You sit up nice and tall in most of the pics. I'd take your posture in a second.

Your horse does like to plod along on her forehand despite not really being a downhill build. It's hard to tell, but she looks pretty level. I think a some balancing half halts every time she starts to fall on her front end would really help her shift some of her weight to her hind end. Transitions within the trot would also help as well as leg yielding to get her hind end loosened up a bit.


----------



## Bright (Aug 18, 2014)

Very good, nice horse


----------



## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

Nice position, however I am not sure which style you are riding? English or western? I genuinely can't tell... 
If its English, you need to shorten your reins a bit and bring her more 'up'. she isn't really working right now as she is btv, and avoiding the contact. She needs to be pushed out to were she is ifv. You can tell shes not working correctly yet, as she is not going to track up. Her feet need to touch in the trot for her to truly be working.


----------



## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

CandyCanes said:


> You can tell shes not working correctly yet, as she is not going to track up. Her feet need to touch in the trot for her to truly be working.


You never "need" or want your horse's feet to touch at any gait. In fact, that is a fault and incorrect. To rush a horse's hindquarters into forging or over reaching would generally cause loss of rhythm and balance.


----------



## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

actually its only incorrect if the hind hoof hits the front pastern. It is not a fault is it hits the front foot, because it means the horse is tracking up. Also the horse here is barefoot, so she obviously cant pull shoes. As a result it wont do her any harm for the feet to touch briefly at the trot. I think this horse is well capable of doing that, but just isn't, so needs to be worked just that bit more to ensure she steps under herself.


----------



## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/forging-154897/page2/

I want a horse to track up as much as anyone, but it should be done properly. It is not correct to say a horse's feet need to touch in the trot to truly be working. Encouraging such an action can cause injury. 

Page 2 of an older thread linked above, jaydee and ~anabel~ discuss and have pictures. It does not matter if a horse has shoes, the principle is the same. 

OP- sorry for going off topic. Your horse has an incredible coat, the shine! I'm not sure what type of riding you do since I am unfamiliar with your saddle, but I believe it maybe an Australian stock saddle, but I only know that because bsms has posted pictures. Your position is lovely on the left side. On the right, you have dropped your toes. My suggestion is to try to aware of when that happens and to correct yourself as soon as possible.


----------



## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

I see. I see... Interesting.

I was always taught that this was a GOOD thing. 
Out of interest, what 'injury' do you speak of? 
Diddly has long legs and a short back, causing him to do this. If you look at my recent thread for critique on diddly and I, you will see that his feet touch for this reason. Once I get moment of suspension in his trot, that should not happen. Also doesn't help that he is lazy as anything... 


Apologies OP, just had to clear up after my idiocy.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks everyone. 

She is actually quite downhill, if you look at her feet she is standing on a slope in the unmourned shot. My saddle sits quite high at the front also which adds to the illusion. However she is a typical cutting bred QH build, very heavy and downhill. 

I don't really ride English or western. I just ride. I ride in a stock saddle and do various disciplines from cow work and mustering to a bit of jumping and showing. Soo suppose I'm somewhere between the two, which is pretty usual for Australia. 

This mare is very heavy in the hand. Holy moly is she heavy. I have been working on holding a *light* contact and bwing able to hold her pace without having to have a death grip on her mouth. She doesn't want to take off but it is like she doesn't feel comfortable without a certain amount of contact, and I like my horses to be feather light. Hence the longer rein and lower headset, trying to encourage her to have a bit more self carriage and self rate. Would love any input on this.


----------



## CandyCanes (Jul 1, 2013)

Looking at the pictures again, she looks like a lead weight in your hands alright... Hence btv. 


You need to transfer more weight onto the hind end. Simply do a lot of transtions- walk to trot, trot to canter, canter to walk, walk to canter, halt to trot... Every 5 strides do a transition. 
Then there is on and back. As you are w/t/c, push on forwards to get a slightly bigger pace, for about 3 strides, then sit up talk and bring her back, down to a smaller pace for 3 strides. 

Those two exercises can really help to get her thinking, and tbh she will probably be concentrating so hard, she will forget about leaning on your hand!


----------



## disastercupcake (Nov 24, 2012)

I actually think you guys look very good. 

Depending on your horses level of training/fitness, there are things that could be improved, but it's impossible to ask for it all at the beginning! Your horse looks soft and forward, she is bending the hind joints and loading weight on the hocks. She seems to be supple and over her back in your pics. 

Good job!


----------



## Westhoff Gal (Dec 4, 2014)

Well, here's my two cents.. I think you and your horse look very good. She does look heavy on her front though. If she were mine, I would really focus on getting her light in the mouth again. Right away. Like make that number one. If she's heavy in the mouth, then everything else that follows the mouth (which is the rest of the body, righto?) is going to be heavy too. Which is probably why you're not getting a good stride. The number one thing that people mess up on here is that they think they need to hold that horse in collection the entire time they're on them. Don't do that. Forget that. Pretend that your reins are yarn. If you pull too hard or too long, they will bust, right? Don't break the yarn! It's a sin!  Instead, light pulls or tugs with some leg cues. Get her to collect, release. Get her to collect, release. Get her to collect, release. See the pattern? Short cues like that take a little teensy weensy bit longer to grasp when you are retraining, BUT the out come is outstanding. The way your mare is built, she is perfectly capable of keeping herself collected =)


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I've had her for nearly a year now, but I don't really like riding her compared to my other mare, so she hasn't had much work. My other mare has now injured herself and has been retired so this mare is getting a bit more work and I am planning to sell her.

The issue i'm having with softening her up is that she is realy dull - It's like any pressure is just white noise until it reaches the critical point which is a LOT of pressure. Anything less than that and she is quite happy to chug along lugging on the bit.

I do a lot of riding just on a loose rein (I HATE heavy horses and like them to be feather light, my other mare is butter soft) but even this is a struggle - as soon as you let some rein out she hunts for it and speeds up, so she needs a lot of BIG checks until she will rate herself and cruise along on a loose rein.

I admit though I haven't put the amount of work into her as I should, as I don't enjoy riding her and we have a personality clash, so I make excuses! I need to really get stuck into it and make some progress or she will never get sold. Thanks for the ideas everybody. She isn't as bad as I make her out to be, she just suffers in comparison to my other mare.


----------



## disastercupcake (Nov 24, 2012)

wild_spot said:


> I've had her for nearly a year now, but I don't really like riding her compared to my other mare, so she hasn't had much work. My other mare has now injured herself and has been retired so this mare is getting a bit more work and I am planning to sell her.
> 
> The issue i'm having with softening her up is that she is realy dull - It's like any pressure is just white noise until it reaches the critical point which is a LOT of pressure. Anything less than that and she is quite happy to chug along lugging on the bit.
> 
> ...


If she is hard in the mouth and faster on a loose rein, she is not balanced or strong enough to hold herself up. 

Young horses (and this includes horses not in continuous work) need to build their strength in order to balance themselves before they can do the work asked of them correctly. 

A young horse that is brought up out of the loose rein in the forward-down-out position, will be able to stay over the back and supple for only a short time. This could be 3 steps or 3 times around the arena. After their strength is expended, they cannot hold themselves up, the back drops, and they WILL fall on the forehand, and the bit for support. 

This sounds like your mare, to me. She just needs more correct work to strengthen the back. This takes time and work; there are no easy short cuts that don't end in travesty!


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

My stock answer for these kind of horses. Spirals. You may need a little spur, if she is super dull. 

She is a beautiful mare, and looks like a glorious mover.


----------



## EmmaWay24 (Aug 5, 2012)

Sounds a lot like my QH when I first started working him. He was heavy in my hands and very insecure on a loose rein. It felt like wanted me to help carry him around the arena. 

When I started working with my HJ trainer she told me "don't worry about his head, get him moving!" I didn't think I had been trying to hold him in a frame but looking back I think I was. I also thought I had him moving pretty forward but I guess not! 

A few months of just getting a forward trot and doing lots of walk trot transistor ions and he became much stronger! He is now very light and a delight to ride. His stride has lengthen significantly and his back has become visibly more muscled. The way my trainer explained it was that you can't have collection without getting the back end to really work and the first step is to ask for more power behind with a big working trot.

Anyway, it helped me a lot. You'll also have to have some patients as she develops the muscles to really work and shift her wieght from forehand to her haunches. 

And also, if she is like my guy as much as she looks in these photos watch her down transitions, I bet she wants to just fall on the bit. Use lots of leg and maybe even a crop to keep her front end up so she uses her butt to do the work.

Happy riding!


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Nice looking horse. Reminds me of a QH that was imported to the UK many moons age and the ' on the forehand problem' the same.

What I see is that you have a good position, your hands are good but to me, and it is hard looking at pictures, that you are fixing your wrists. If she is bearing down on them it is hard not to set against her.

Leg, leg amd more leg, wear spurs of she is lazy. 

Try riding in one of two ways, first have the reins the wrong way round so that the rein comes over the big finger, held by the thumb, whilst the forefinger points along the rein. 
The other thing is to ride with your reins crossed, left hand holds the right rein and right the left. You can hold the reins conventionally or as above. Asking for a bend or turn the outside hand has to come over the withers so you are still using an open rein. 
Either/both of these will stop you setting the wrist and the latter will help to stop her leaning,
All the time lots of leg.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

*Candy Canes*

You do not want a horse to be touching itself when it trots. 
A horse that forges - when the toe of the back foot foot catches the toe of the front, does not mean the horse is 'active' it can mean that the horse is not using its shoulders or that it is shod incorrectly and the break over is late.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Considering her build and her heaviness in hand, you might experiment with a curb bit of a milder type. 

That's. One thing to try.

Maybe look at riding her more as a western style mount.

This horse wouldn't likely track up much to the point of forging no matter what. She is a totally different type than Diddly, having a much longer back and more downhill build. Neither have I ever heard of forging considered a desirable thing.


----------



## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I have thought of that Tiny, it might be my next step with her. I hate having to use to use SO much pressure to achieve a response in a snaffle. If I have any money left over Christmas I might see if I can find one I like to try. 

Thanks for the ideas everybody. She definitely isn't lazy - she is quite forward. 

Have had a couple of good rides after going to a one day clinic with a good horseman I know. I think part of my problem is I am so used to my other mare who is super soft, I don't become assertive enough with her until it gets to the point where I have to go overboard. I need to be more assertive to start with so that hopefully we don't have to reach that point. 

She also gets way more bract when she gets straight, so keeping her bent through the body and neck seems to be galling, though it is exhausting for me and hard on the hands as sometimes it takes a lot of strength to get her there where I can give a release. 

I don't have an arena of any sort, in fact hardly any flat ground, and often when I ride it is to get a job done, mustering etc. so unfortunately I don't have the luxury of keeping her away from those situations until she softens - just have to do what I can do as we go along. I did have a good ride on her a few days ago moving Bulls, she kept her head a bit better and did some really good work at a gallop bendigone fellow who didn't want to leave his girls. Better ride than I've had on her for a while.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

The QH I rode as a teen was much the same. I Pony Club evented him and getting the dressage anything like respectable was darn hard work! 
He was laid back and would switch off for the dressage and we found out that if I put his jumping boots on, gave him a few pops over fences and then went immediately to the dressage arena he was far better!


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

She probably does not like riding that has no perceiveable purpose. many QH have been bred to be "cowy" (to have an instinct to chase and harass moving things) that they really turn on when that activity starts.

next time you try any kind of arena riding or just practice riding, maybe set out some markers or things that you go around or over, to add purpose to the activity.

and if she is leaning on the bit, short sharp reminders , with one rein, are more likely to get her to come off it than a steady hard pull.


----------

