# Potential purchase



## Dria (Dec 5, 2018)

Went to look at a mare for my sister who is a beginner rider. She's 13 years ranch horse super broke really nice personality, easy to ride and sound. Great horse, she was a broodmare for a few years and her feet kinda got neglected. She's toed out so just wondering if you would take a chance buying a horse with ballerina feet, but pretty nice confirmation other than that. She's mostly going to be a trail horse with light arena work, but just want to know if you'd buy a horse with feet that aren't the best. 
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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

If she is exactly what you are looking for training and temperament wise than I'd have x-rays done during a PPE to see if she has arthritic changes in her knees and fetlocks. If the x-rays come back clean then some toeing out would not bother me.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

When I first looked at this thread, I could see your post, with the first pic down showing to her knees. From seeing that much, it's obvious her elbows are 'bound' tight. When looking at the whole pic, seems to me her legs are straight, feet are straight, but her entire legs angle out, not just the toes, from her elbows. Perhaps from an ill fit saddle or some other prob. You might find a good chiropractic vet or such can fix this 'conformation' in one fell swoop even!

Many horses have this prob & it's no biggie. It's not a hoof prob tho. And her feet, yeah, far from perfect, but with good care & nutrition - & I'd personally get the shoes off, at least until they're in a good state - they can come good too.


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## AJ Yammie (Dec 20, 2020)

Dria said:


> Went to look at a mare for my sister who is a beginner rider. She's 13 years ranch horse super broke really nice personality, easy to ride and sound. Great horse, she was a broodmare for a few years and her feet kinda got neglected. She's toed out so just wondering if you would take a chance buying a horse with ballerina feet, but pretty nice confirmation other than that. She's mostly going to be a trail horse with light arena work, but just want to know if you'd buy a horse with feet that aren't the best.
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I’d ask if I could do a vet check or take her for a trail and have the vet check her. I got an x ranch horse with neglected feet that hadn’t been trimmed for 8 years and she had torn all the white line tissue. The farriery has been giving her a special trim and a rolled toe and she’s low sound to ride. With any horse I buy I ask for a trail and if the owner refuses there’s probably something they’re hiding.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I too saw alignment of joints but "toed-out" from higher up in her anatomy...
She has a wide enough stance it doesn't look to interfere with her way of travel...
Look carefully at the insides of her pasterns for scuffing marks, white hairs, feel for scar tissue...
Yes, a look-see by the vet would be ideal and based on their professional opinion how far to go to uncover issues if there are any is up to you..
For a horse who is needed to do trails and a bit of arena work, what she is portraying as build probably won't be a issue.
I would be asking for a chance to see how sure-footed she is and trail minded with a brain intact though.
Good luck and let us know if she comes home to stay or not.
🐴...


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@loosie would you be concerned that they have this horse in four shoes even though, it sounds from the post, she has most recently been a brood mare, not a riding horse?


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## Dria (Dec 5, 2018)

ACinATX said:


> @loosie would you be concerned that they have this horse in four shoes even though, it sounds from the post, she has most recently been a brood mare, not a riding horse?


She was a ranch horse before she had babies. She had issues with her last two babies which is when she became a riding horse again. The owner has has had her her whole life and always had her barefoot until now to help her out with getting back into riding. He is selling because he is getting into dressage and she's the best broke horse he has. And she's only got shoes on the fronts not the back.
I showed the photos to my farrier also and she said although her feet might not be the best they could be worse, but she also recommend the ppe to get a vet to take good look at her front legs. I am definitely going to get a ppe done and will do x-rays I didn't think about arthritis potential, I just don't want to buy a horse for my sister to have her struggle with keeping her sound right out of the gate. My other horses are on a chiropractic schedule so would definitely put her on one as well. The seller mentioned that they did some pemf therapy since she was rather stiff, but she's really only been riding again a little bit since October and she really needs some good muscle building, but from riding her the other day she was sound. She has a really kind eye and a wonderful personality I am going to see if I can make an appointment for a ppe with x-rays to see if we still might be able to take her home.


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## Retic96 (Oct 8, 2020)

Dria said:


> She was a ranch horse before she had babies. She had issues with her last two babies which is when she became a riding horse again. The owner has has had her her whole life and always had her barefoot until now to help her out with getting back into riding. He is selling because he is getting into dressage and she's the best broke horse he has. And she's only got shoes on the fronts not the back.
> I showed the photos to my farrier also and she said although her feet might not be the best they could be worse, but she also recommend the ppe to get a vet to take good look at her front legs. I am definitely going to get a ppe done and will do x-rays I didn't think about arthritis potential, I just don't want to buy a horse for my sister to have her struggle with keeping her sound right out of the gate. My other horses are on a chiropractic schedule so would definitely put her on one as well. The seller mentioned that they did some pemf therapy since she was rather stiff, but she's really only been riding again a little bit since October and she really needs some good muscle building, but from riding her the other day she was sound. She has a really kind eye and a wonderful personality I am going to see if I can make an appointment for a ppe with x-rays to see if we still might be able to take her home.


Beautiful mare  

Has your farrier seen any videos of this mare traveling?

There is just so much gray area and unknowns until radiographs are taken. Otherwise, your farrier is basically just taking her best guess. Will she be present during the PPE? If not, will she be updated with information as it’s underway? I’m sure that’d be greatly appreciated.

You’re doing everything right with the PPE and x-rays. Wishing you the very best! Merry Christmas!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

ACinATX said:


> @loosie would you be concerned that they have this horse in four shoes even though, it sounds from the post, she has most recently been a brood mare, not a riding horse?


Yes, I was wondering why they'd shoe a broodie, but as OP has set us straight there... I'll just say there are a few specifics that concern me about her feet, and she has been badly shod, by the look of it, but they don't look terrible. But with only those pics to go on(& sole pics full of crap, so can't even see foot clearly), can only give a 'guesstimate', as Retic said. 

If the feet were the only concern, I'd buy the horse in a flash. But that's me - do you have a GOOD farrier, OP?


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## Retic96 (Oct 8, 2020)

loosie said:


> Yes, I was wondering why they'd shoe a broodie, but as OP has set us straight there... I'll just say there are a few specifics that concern me about her feet, *and she has been badly shod*, by the look of it, but they don't look terrible.


Ha ha I wasn’t going to say anything. 🤭


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## Dria (Dec 5, 2018)

loosie said:


> Yes, I was wondering why they'd shoe a broodie, but as OP has set us straight there... I'll just say there are a few specifics that concern me about her feet, and she has been badly shod, by the look of it, but they don't look terrible. But with only those pics to go on(& sole pics full of crap, so can't even see foot clearly), can only give a 'guesstimate', as Retic said.
> 
> If the feet were the only concern, I'd buy the horse in a flash. But that's me - do you have a GOOD farrier, OP?


Yes, thank goodness my farrier is amazing and worked wonders with my other horse who had some troubled feet as well when I first brought her home, we worked for several months to get them corrected and now she moves beautifully and is much easier to maintain. I had a feeling whomever trimmed her didn't do a great job I believe it was the owner so figured there wasn't much thought put into how they put her shoes on. Unfortunately, with the holidays I wasn't able to schedule the pre purchase until Jan 4th, but will 100% update with what they find. I'm hopeful will still be able to bring her home.
Wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to answer back it's definitely helped and I appreciate it! Hope everyone has a happy holiday and crosses their fingers for clean x-rays, haha!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I would not have notice the elbows being 'tied in', not from solely that fornt picture in the first OP. Id much rather the turning out be from the whole leg, rather than from just the knee . I think her legs look rather sturdy and while she is overweight, I bet she'll tone up real nicely. She has an absolutely gorgeous head and a kind eye. I bet with riding and better ferriery, she'll be a gem!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Yes, agree, her legs look good & straight to me.


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## Dria (Dec 5, 2018)

Hey everyone just wanted to send an update since we did her ppe this morning. We ended up not buying her, unfortunately. She came up lame in her left hind, has arthritis in her hocks and also a heart murmur. Heart murmur was a grade 2 so not overly bad (I think) but the vet mentioned that he checked her heart when they first got there it was 60 then they lunged her and it was normal rate then checked it again after about 15 min and it was below normal at 24 so he said that was pretty uncommon. He also said that he could still hear the murmur after exercise, he couldn't say that it was heart disease or that she would drop from working or anything, but he just said that it was pretty irregular for the heart rate to drop like that. So with being lame, having arthritis and the heart murmur we decided it would be best to keep looking. We are sad since she really is such a sweet girl, but better to find out now. Will continue the search.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

loosie said:


> When I first looked at this thread, I could see your post, with the first pic down showing to her knees. From seeing that much, it's obvious her elbows are 'bound' tight. When looking at the whole pic, seems to me her legs are straight, feet are straight, but her entire legs angle out, not just the toes, from her elbows. Perhaps from an ill fit saddle or some other prob. You might find a good chiropractic vet or such can fix this 'conformation' in one fell swoop even!
> 
> Many horses have this prob & it's no biggie. It's not a hoof prob tho. And her feet, yeah, far from perfect, but with good care & nutrition - & I'd personally get the shoes off, at least until they're in a good state - they can come good too.


I'll second Loosie's comments. I'd be MORE concerned with 4 shoes than the toeing out. You need to talk to their farrier and find out if she NEEDS 4 shoes or they just shod her as a matter of course (some folks do that). I'd be wanting a barefoot horse for trail, less slipping on rocks and leaf mold and such.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

Dria said:


> Hey everyone just wanted to send an update since we did her ppe this morning. We ended up not buying her, unfortunately. She came up lame in her left hind, has arthritis in her hocks and also a heart murmur. Heart murmur was a grade 2 so not overly bad (I think) but the vet mentioned that he checked her heart when they first got there it was 60 then they lunged her and it was normal rate then checked it again after about 15 min and it was below normal at 24 so he said that was pretty uncommon. He also said that he could still hear the murmur after exercise, he couldn't say that it was heart disease or that she would drop from working or anything, but he just said that it was pretty irregular for the heart rate to drop like that. So with being lame, having arthritis and the heart murmur we decided it would be best to keep looking. We are sad since she really is such a sweet girl, but better to find out now. Will continue the search.


Sounds like a dodged bullet! Good work.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Dria said:


> Hey everyone just wanted to send an update since we did her ppe this morning. We ended up not buying her, unfortunately. She came up lame in her left hind, has arthritis in her hocks and also a heart murmur. Heart murmur was a grade 2 so not overly bad (I think) but the vet mentioned that he checked her heart when they first got there it was 60 then they lunged her and it was normal rate then checked it again after about 15 min and it was below normal at 24 so he said that was pretty uncommon. He also said that he could still hear the murmur after exercise, he couldn't say that it was heart disease or that she would drop from working or anything, but he just said that it was pretty irregular for the heart rate to drop like that. So with being lame, having arthritis and the heart murmur we decided it would be best to keep looking. We are sad since she really is such a sweet girl, but better to find out now. Will continue the search.


Probably best you passed on her. With all that going on, she could end doubling her price in very short order with vet bills, medications and supplements. You expect some wear and tear on a 13 year old but that's enough to really make you worry.


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## 289250 (Dec 11, 2020)

AJ Yammie said:


> With any horse I buy I ask for a trail and if the owner refuses there’s probably something they’re hiding.


I understand why you feel this way, but keep in mind, not everyone lives near trails and so that isn't always a viable option. I would certainly let someone ride my pastures or arena, but would not allow the horse off my property unless I was the one doing the transport. Too many things can go wrong.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think she meant trial instead of trail. Trials aren’t as common in the US.


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