# Flatwork



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay peeps... this is my first time riding *this* horse. I previously had issues cantering but seem to be doing *better* but I'm still not happy with my seat.

I am the one in the striped tee. Please don't say anything about the other rider on the much larger horse.

Any pointers?


























Thank you


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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

All I can say is that your posting trot looks lovely and effortless, and your seat at the canter so balanced and smooth. I'm jealous


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Really??? Aww I'm blushing  Thank you haha


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## jinxremoving (Apr 6, 2009)

The biggest thing that I see is that your heels keep coming up! You gotta let the weight sink into the heels instead of trying to force them down.

Do some stair exercises where you let your heels hang over the edge, let them fall all the way down, hold for two seconds, then lift them back up and hold for another two seconds. Keep repeating until you can no longer do them. It's a great way to help stretch your heels and I swear it was the most important exercise I did to help with my heels.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

I'd like to see you relax those arms and give your horse some reins...bring your arms back with a bend at the elbow. Your hands are half way up your horses neck and almost held "saddleseat" style. At the canter you are behind the motion...pushing forward with your seat. I'd like to see you sit quiet without the upper body movement...some slight pumping going on and you have hollowed out your back. I LOVE that you keep your head and eyes up and look where you are going!!!!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Sky,

YOu are really making some great improvements, and considering how little you get to ride, I want to compliment you on that. I think you are one of those people who learns to ride quite quickly and easily, and in a short time, you will have a really nice seat.

What I see is that you are rolled too far forward onto your fork. I think this has in part to do with the horse having a downhill conformation, and possible the saddle, but you end up on your pubic bone too much, with your seat bones pointing out behind you. This is a weak position. If you were out in the open, instead of on a hrose that is just following along in a school, you'd be struggling to put the horse together. So, you need to use your core muslces more to align your pelvis so those seatbones point STRAIGHT down. No butt pouching out!

SEcondly, I see you round your upper back a bit too much. This is a result of you having your hands a bit too far out in front of you. You can still have the nice following hands that you DO have if you put a bit more bend in your elbow, and connect your arm to your body , via a bit of a feel at the armpit area. What I mean, is you kind of anchor your upper arm a bit to the ribcage, way up near your armpit. this adds strength and stability.

YOur right heel is come up, and I think that's part of the rolling forward on your fork, makes you grab up a tiny bit more with the knees, thus the heel comes up.

This used to be a huge problem for me, and invariably, the right heel. Now, it's just a large problem, instead of huge.

Sorry to see that the other horse really looks lame.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

You and the horse look pretty good. Your feet are pumping a little bit at the posting trot, so you can work on your leg strength. It just shows some muscle weakness, and I see you have weight in your stirrups. Spend time in a 1/2 seat and riding without stirrups, and especially riding LONG PERIODS without stirrups and your legs will be too tired to push you out of the saddle.
YOUR performance doesn't bother me. 
I can't understand why your instructor has both horses/riders working so close to each other with a big arena. When I taught two riders in a single lesson I kept them 1/2-way around the arena from each other. I even played a game where one rider was the leader and the other rider mimicked what they did. It was a great exercise to train your eye forward, since we all look down too much to check for diagonals, and the like.
The US Cavalry manual teaches keeping at least one horse length apart bc one might kick and one might bite,and that was to prevent incidents marching where there were close quarters. You have NO control over the other rider's horse, and she was fighting her horse.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the great advice! Yes I knew there were things wrong. My legs are very weak. They've gotten stronger but still pretty bad.

I am horrible with my arms. So I will reread all advice given and definitely chant it in my head.

Thanks tiny.. I do well with a good instructor. And I was wondering the same thing about the other horse. I believe it's her personal horse and I think there's something wrong with his mouth/bit cause he's sound when he's walking with no contact. "/ 

My next lesson is on the flat, which will be great. I think I was off in my position because my instructor says I was sitting too far back and to bring my shoulders forward. I've got to figure out the right position;



Corporal said:


> I can't understand why your instructor has both horses/riders working so close to each other with a big arena. When I taught two riders in a single lesson I kept them 1/2-way around the arena from each other.


Yeah I agree... I don't like being that close to another horse. Especially when it comes time to canter and I have to wait for the horse infront to canter because if I do, I would run into them.


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## GotaDunQH (Feb 13, 2011)

^ the fixes are pretty easy if you bring EVERYTHING back to center again. You are SO CLOSE! You are riding perched in many spots with a very rigid upper body and arms, where you need to be sitting deep and quiet. I have no doubt you will get the "fixes" because now it's just "mind over matter."


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I get the feeling that you are trying so hard to 'sit pretty' that you end up being very tense.
I'm sure if you just relaxed and stopped thinking about what you look like you would find that your seat would naturally deepen and your heels drop down - same with your hands and arms - so much tension there that they end up being a bit rigid
You have good balance so you're best part there already.
BTW - I wouldn't dare post a video of me on here and ask for critique so you're really brave!!!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Corporal said:


> You and the horse look pretty good.* Your feet are pumping a little bit at the posting trot,* so you can work on your leg strength. It just shows some muscle weakness, and I see you have weight in your stirrups. Spend time in a 1/2 seat and riding without stirrups, and especially riding LONG PERIODS without stirrups and your legs will be too tired to push you out of the saddle.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> I have a bigtime problem with this; feet pumping, especially my right leg. I never ride without stirrups because I am a wimp and scared to fall off the 17 hh horse.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

jaydee said:


> I get the feeling that you are trying so hard to 'sit pretty' that you end up being very tense.
> I'm sure if you just relaxed and stopped thinking about what you look like you would find that your seat would naturally deepen and your heels drop down - same with your hands and arms - so much tension there that they end up being a bit rigid
> You have good balance so you're best part there already.
> BTW - I wouldn't dare post a video of me on here and ask for critique so you're really brave!!!


Yes!! You nailed it. My old instructor would scream at me to sit tall and I felt like I couldn't breathe, or move.. or I'd get yelled at again. I'll try to relax some more. 

Thanks.. yeah brave is one word to describe it. I'm just itching to become a better rider. I will go to any lengths (even embarrasing myself) to get there.

Thanks all for the encouragement. I feel like I post from my feet less, but it's still an issue so I'm going to try harder to use my muscles.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay so I had my riding lesson. Basically I felt like a mess at the beginning... and to me it's reflected in my riding. 

However the second half, which I haven't gotten the videos of yet... was much better.

Do you see improvements? I tried not to move at all during the canter and focused on keeping my legs on the horse, rather than just bouncing around.




















































This is only part 1 of the lesson... the other videos are coming. Keep in mind I am new to lateral movements so they probably look like crap lol.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that's a lot in one lesson. Did you ever feel like the horse gave you a good leg yield?

I thought it unusual tat the instructor had you leg yield from the wall toward the inside. I always had lessons where we were asked to go down the quarter line and leg yield toward the wall.



And, I thought it odd that she had you leg yield toward the right, (so horse is bending slightly to left) then have the horse take a right lead canter. I am sure there is a good reason, though.

you are doing well. I think it's great how steady you kept your hands through the horse's sometimes rough canter/trot/canter, trope transitions, where he was kind of half way inbetween gaits. you handles that well and did not bop his mouth at all.

I can still see more arch in your back than you need. When you sit down on the saddle at walk, think about this; you know what the human tail bone looks like? it's kind of a "hook" shape, as it curls under. Imagine kind of hooking your tail bone down into the back of the hrose and hook into HIS back bone. That shape you take with your pelvis, try to hold that even when rising with the trot.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> that's a lot in one lesson. Did you ever feel like the horse gave you a good leg yield?
> 
> I thought it unusual tat the instructor had you leg yield from the wall toward the inside. I always had lessons where we were asked to go down the quarter line and leg yield toward the wall.
> 
> ...


That's not even the hard part of the lesson... lol. I think I may try for a few private lessons again cause my horse is so well trained that he listens to what the instructor is saying, instead of waiting for my cue. And then he just follows the other horses infront so when I TRY to cue properly he just... pops into it. Annoying little ****** 

I'm glad my hands are steady lol.. I worked hard on them!

Okay now your advice for my seat.. I tried to roll my pelvis more underneath me so it's facing forwards instead of down (which I think is a new habit?) but it doesn't look like it made a difference in my back.. so I need to perhaps do some balancing on my ball at home to figure out my positioning... 

I hope the other vids come in so I can see if they are any better. I *felt* more put together but yeah....

I feel I need to start making him halt and listening to me. Yes my instructor may get mad but he shouldn't just go into robot mode. Not good for me cause I'm struggling to keep up with him...he's infront of my leg, is the term yes?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Don't be too hard on yourself. I think you are really doing well and I'd put you up on any horse I owned (if I owned one!) because I know you'd take good care of them.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Steady hands mean steady reins and especially in the canter they are going taught-loose-taught-loose. You can see the expression in the horse that he is not too impressed with being jerked in the mouth every stride. The hands are very rigid and fixed. Not steady.

Overall your aids are very passive and you are very posed. The first thing I would do were you my student is get your hands down to the withers so you can feel where the motion of the horse is going so that your arms are not so rigid and catching the horse in the mouth every stride. Then I would take away your stirrups to try to get some movement into your seat. Right now again, because you are so rigid and posed, you are stopping the horse with every stride and digging a hole in his back.

Once everything is not so blocked, then I would start with some leg yields and things, but right now I don't even really see a leg yield, because your other aids are all blocking the horse he can't actually do a leg yield.

Really think about flopping like a sack of potatoes into the tack and letting the horse move your body. Until you can move with the horse, you will not be able to put an aid on in the correct timing. Your posture is good. This is why I say correct equitation goes way further beyond thumbs up and heels down. Because by a book your equitation is good, but ask the horse or get into a real life riding situation and it falls short.

Good luck!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Steady hands mean steady reins and especially in the canter they are going taught-loose-taught-loose. You can see the expression in the horse that he is not too impressed with being jerked in the mouth every stride. The hands are very rigid and fixed. Not steady.
> 
> Overall your aids are very passive and you are very posed. The first thing I would do were you my student is get your hands down to the withers so you can feel where the motion of the horse is going so that your arms are not so rigid and catching the horse in the mouth every stride. Then I would take away your stirrups to try to get some movement into your seat. Right now again, because you are so rigid and posed, you are stopping the horse with every stride and digging a hole in his back.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much anebel. I agree... I mean people look at me ride and say "oh you have such great balance" yeah... maybe it looks that way but while I'm on the horse I don't feel like that's the case.

Maybe I'll take a private lesson this weekend and see if I can just... relax some.

Thanks 

As for the canter hands... I usually move them with the horse but my instructor says she doesn't want me doing that since she feels "they don't like it as much as we think" which I found weird.....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think you looked better in those videos - but not helped by the fact - as you mention - that the horse is a bit on auto pilot responding more to the instructor and the other horses than it is to you. Maybe some individual lessons would help
*Anebel* is right about you being a bit too rigid and I'm sure that's mostly down to still trying too hard to have this perfect position. I like the 'sack of spuds' description - mostly because my one time boss always told me that I 'rode like a sack of spuds tied up horrible' but you know it got results!!!
Your wonderful efforts at sitting up straight almost push you to get your shoulders too far back, your back too hollowed and then your butt gets left behind and your heels pop up and that is tending to tilt/roll you forwards
Try to relax, enjoy what your doing, feel the movement of the horse, think sack of spuds or rag doll for a while and feel the difference
I still give you top marks for courage in showing these videos


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Skyseternalangel, I want to applaud you for your determination. I've been there. I was taking lessons and participating in schooling shows, but I was frustrated bc I knew I couldn't progress much further without my own horse. When I did get my own I was in the best physical shape of my life.
I think I've indentifed your problem. Your riding muscles aren't strong enough to do what you want them to do. I really like the school horses your are riding. They are calm and patient, but they move out.
I want to suggest that you buy below:
Equibarre with Angelea Kelly Walkup: horsebooksetc
NOTHING and I mean NO exercises or Yoga will get you in better shape without torqueing your body or giving you shin splints, than a dancer's workout. I found this one bc it requires no special equipment to buy. We've ALL been to garage sales with fad workout equipment for sale, hardly used.
I took ~4 years of ballet, tap and acrobatics, not continguously. I still use a kitchen counter as a "barre."


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

^^^ Good advice - I also did ballet as a young teenager and continued to do the exercises - I gave up as horses began to take up so much time and also I was way too clumsy to be any good!!!
I can also highly recommend cycling for building up leg muscles, keeping your bum off the seat for as much as possible.


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## ponypile (Nov 7, 2007)

Do you have access to a horse with a lot of movement? Like wamblood, big, bouncy, couldn't-sit-if-my-life-depended-on-it movement? Both the horses in these videos have small, flat movement, with little suspension. Riding a big moving horse might help you focus on balancing, and absorbing motion, rather than just sitting there and be taken for a ride. Sometimes it's hard to feel the difference on small moving horses since there isn't much to absorb in the first place. Just a thought, riding a big moving horse really helped me get my sitting trot under control and I had to learn how to really ride it properly.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

ponypile said:


> Do you have access to a horse with a lot of movement? Like wamblood, big, bouncy, couldn't-sit-if-my-life-depended-on-it movement? Both the horses in these videos have small, flat movement, with little suspension. Riding a big moving horse might help you focus on balancing, and absorbing motion, rather than just sitting there and be taken for a ride. Sometimes it's hard to feel the difference on small moving horses since there isn't much to absorb in the first place. Just a thought, riding a big moving horse really helped me get my sitting trot under control and I had to learn how to really ride it properly.


My horse does and I seem to do better with him (not as much tension) 

But.. he's in the states and I only ride whatever horses or ponies I'm told to ride *shrug*

~~~~~~~~

Well the embarrassing-myself streak continues. Here's another part of the lesson (and one I found confusing) and yes my name is Maggie. I haven't watched it fully myself yet but I began to take more control cause I was tired of pony-boy taking me for a ride. At one point I spanked him with my leg and tapped him with the whip to get him to stop cutting into the circle. But still my posture is rigid and not very effective.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Sky, you've given me tons of critiques and I must say I've been stalking this thread like a crazy person. 

To me, it looks like you need to _breathe_. Just take a moment every now and then and take a deep breath and reeelaaaax. 

I've never had a lesson, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be acceptable to take a minute here and there to just drop your stirrups, loosen up your core, let everything relax and breathe. 

When I'm riding Squiggy and she's giving me a hard time, I will honestly stop and let her free walk wherever we are, and I will just chill out completely for a couple minutes and then try whatever I was trying again. Otherwise, I just get too tense and frustrated and snap on her and it's just a negative experience for her. 

My highly un-professional opinion.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks  I agree... this may seem dumb but I forget to breathe sometimes.

Okay so in the last... 2 minutes I notice I'm not trying to sit up as tall and I seem less archy. Hopefully you all can see that..


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