# Locking Stifle?



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Ugh, I am so sorry. I wish that Vida were still on here, she has experience with that in one of her fillies. I don't know of anything to help but I hope it can be fixed without surgery. :?


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I've done some reading and APPARENTLY it can be a somewhat bothersome but not life altering problem in young horses. Jynx definitely has weak stifles, we can thank her glorious conformation for that, and apparently there are a few issues that can cause it such as trim angles and mineral deficiency. That made me stop and pay attention as Jynx is on a general electrolyte/mineral supplement for her tying up problem - makes me wonder if I'm not facing a totally different problem that's actually stemming from the same source. I was only giving her the electrolytes on days I rode - maybe she needs to be getting them every single day.

I freaking hope anyway, this is ridiculous. She's got a week to clear up before she's getting shipped off as someone elses problem. She's a sweetheart but this is just to many flipping defects in a short time for me to want to risk her dying on me before I can recoup SOME of my losses. :?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I personally don't consider the tying up thing a defect at all, several of my horses have done it at least once in their life; Dobe, Pokey, Bessie, and Flash. She only did it once and that doesn't exactly set a pattern LOL. There are so many different things that could cause it in _any_ horse. I think if it was me, I would completely forget about that and just focus on figuring out the stifle problem before you make a decision you may regret later on.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

I don't know how it works in horses, but my sisters cat has that. I think they called it a Luxated Patella, though. There are four grades of severity. Here is part of an article on it: 

Grade 1: 
Intermittent patellar luxation - occasional carrying of the affected limb. The patella can easily be manually luxated at full extension of the stifle, but returns to proper position when pressure is released. 
Grade 2: 
Frequent patellar luxation - in some cases luxation is more or less permanent. The affected limb is sometimes carried, although the dog may walk with the stifle slightly flexed. 
Grade 3: 
Permanent patellar luxation - even though the patella is luxated; many animals will walk with the limb in a semi-flexed position. 
Grade 4: 
Permanent patellar luxation - the affected limb is either carried or the animal walks in a crouched position, with the limb partially flexed. 

I think that if it gets too bad then they will need surgery and they are at a high risk for early arthritis and other joint issues because of it.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I know I just read about this, I'll have to look it up, I can't remember what it said.

I'm so sorry this is happening. I just can't imagine. Looks like you got stuck with a lemon of a rescue, huh? ::sigh:: I'll let you know what that book says when I can find it. =|


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

The Luxations can be trauma induced, hereditary, or I have heard, caused by a mineral deficiancy.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

When it locks, try backing her up several steps to unlock it. 

There is a surgery, I don't know what the success rate is, where they cut one of the patellar ligaments. 

I have only ever seen one horse with this, and it was an older horse with lots of other soundness issues. 

Sorry, and good luck.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*Sorry about the stifle issue!*

A possible clue to me is that this is a 3-year-old, and youngsters need time to develop before they are required to do any work in small spaces, like longeing or round-penning. (I don't know what you've asked her to do.) OTT's are at risk for developing stifle issues due to changing from forward running to small-space work. On a job, I had to round-pen a young mare whom the boss said locked up, and it happened during the circling.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

What's funny about that is I've actually done quite a bit of round penning work with Jynx, but almost nothing since last year. The circles were very large and we did almost exclusively trotting and not for massive amounts of time or anything.

She doesn't get round penned or lunged anymore and hasn't really much at all for the last six months. She's docile enough I just get on and ride - and our rides are quite light. Maybe half an hour, mostly walking, lots of big loop jogging and a couple big canter circles (using whole arena). I REALLY don't think it's work related. Her last ride, we hit the trail - 5km of almost totally walking and jogging (no cantering).

Jynx is very post legged and that's the number one factor in this - she's already ultra predisposed to it. I'm going to give her the weekend, and then I'm calling a vet early next week if this doesn't sort itself out to see what diagnosis I'm looking at.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

Even if you don't see it happen again I would suggest getting x-rays to see what's going on in there. Hope it was just a one time thing. Good luck.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Right, work-related isn't it! Thanks for info!


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Apparently it's common in young horses, horses with straight stifles, and unfit horses. My book suggests increased physical conditioning to improve the muscle strength in her hind end. Hills perhaps? Cavalettis? After that, it recommens surgery, which is guessing is out of the question for you. Hopefully it doesn't come to that. Best of luck. Poor Jynx. =[


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

That's what I'm praying for - it being some weird young horse thing that's a combination of her weak stifles and maybe not being trimmed recently? :-( It just hasn't even set in yet, like I'm just expecting to go out tomorrow and everything to be ok and I just haven't even stopped to think even briefly over what I'm going to do if she isn't.

*sighs* I guess there's nothing can be done except just wait and see. I've called a vet, hopefully he calls me back this weekend and we can set up a consult or meeting to discuss her options. I agree - even if she's fine, I think I'll still have her examined to see what I'm up against and if I can take any proactive measures to prevent joint deterioration.

Thanks guys.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Mmmm, I have seen this in only one horse before and backing him up a few steps always did the trick. Right royal pain in the butt though. In addition to electrolyte supplements you can add Vitamin E and selenium to her feed which will help with not only the tying up, but also the locking stifle. That's what we used and it seemed to help, good luck with that.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

The post-legged ness definitely does predispose them, but I don't know how you'd put the kind of work on her to build up the muscle she needs considering her age. 

The good news is that the horses I've seen the stifle completely locks, and they move sideways dragging the affected leg. The first time I saw it I thought it was a neurological problem. Hers doesn't sound that severe. 

I would definitely look at getting her hind feet trimmed differently as well; bound to help, as well as looking into the supplements that sarahver recommended.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

She was absolutely fine today. *shrugs* Checked on her first thing this morning, walked her in straight lines and circles, nothing. Went to do some other things, came back this afternoon and put a ride on her - she was 100% ok.

I'm going to put it off as fluke for now - she had been standing tied for a good 30 minutes and unlike Zierra who "moves around", she basically cocked a hind leg and dozed off while Shay-la worked Eve and we dealt with an issue over the phone. Right after that, I put down grain for Jynx and Zierra, and after they'd eaten half, Zierra squealed at Jynx, so she spun around really hard (and Zierra nipped her butt). It's the ONLY thing I can think of - she moved so abruptly after she'd been dozing, it locked up? :?

Upon further examination today, I don't Jynx as being SO post legged/weak stifled as for that to be the cause. She's a LITTLE post legged, but it's not overly extreme as she's filled out. The back of her legs line up almost completely with her hind end now.

Anyway, thanks guys, I'll just keep and eye on her and if it happens again, I'll have a vet out to get an exam done and see what to do from here.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Glad that it doesn't appear to be a constant thing. I am hoping that you are right and she maybe just did something when she whirled away from Zierra and it won't happen again. XX fingers crossed.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

That's good, I'm glad it wasn't a problem today. =]


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## CecilliaB (Jan 21, 2010)

Someone at my barn is dealing with this. The vet has x-rayed and told her nothing appears wrong. But when he trots and canters you can totally see the difference especially a the canter. He cannot bend his left (I am pretty sure) hind leg and kind of swings it out and around like you would a crutch. It's strange to watch. He's had injections and she has him on a joint supplement. Vet told her to strengthen him so she's been doing trot poles and lots of walk trot work and says its getting better. His conformation and natural movement (He is post legged) is unusual to watch to begin with, I haven't seen him canter in a couple weeks so I can't say if he's getting better or not. 

Best of luck to you!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Well, Jynx went from doing almost exactly this (only difference is that Jynx only had one leg, not both):






To this, 24 hours later:






:-| I don't even understand how that's possible, but I'm not arguing with her!

PS - And as per the end of my video from today, she gives a fantastic confo shot when she stops totally square. She doesn't have anywhere NEAR "perfect" back legs, but she doesn't exhibit the extreme post leggedness I would associate with weak stifles. Am I wrong?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Wow, I feel sorry for that horse in the first vid. It looks like he has stringhalt in addition to locking stifles :,,(.

I absolutely love Jynxy. She is such a doll and looks like an absolute dream to ride . Your right. She isn't nearly as posty as a lot I have seen. Unless something else comes of it, I am gonna say it was hopefully just a fluke thing caused by some action she did like spinning away from Zierra.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

smrobs said:


> Wow, I feel sorry for that horse in the first vid. It looks like he has stringhalt in addition to locking stifles :,,(.


Unlikely, horses with locking stifles will often move in a way similar to string-halt when coming "out of it". Don't worry double, it's most likely just the one condition. =]

She does look fantastic though, and definitely not very post-legged. I would just work on strengthening her hind end [hills, poles, cavalettis] and hopefully this will never happen again. =D ::happy dance:: I wouldn't know what to do with myself if you sold Jynx, she's one of my favorite horses on the forum!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Well, if she ever decides to, she may just have to ship her down here to TX.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

She's a dollface. She was fine again today, we did the 5km trail again, this time with a good 2km of working trot with about 1/2 km of cantering. She LOVED the cantering - for a lazy horse, she's just loving getting out on the trails and moving out at a nice pace. It's definitely been very enjoyable riding a horse that WAITS for her cue instead of my Arab where you just let the reins out by notches to control her pace. :lol:

She also had her second bath today, and that was interesting. Five times in the last weeks she's hit the end of her leadrope and fought like HECK. We never had a sturdy post to tie her to, so I've always been cautious about tying her, but now we have solid posts and solid eye hooks in the arena, so I'm letting her fend for herself. I'm surprised she keeps trying - three times during her bath she blew up and hit the end of her rope so hard she was grunting and blowing and darn near sitting down in her effort.

But that also makes 5 times she's failed miserably fighting as hard as she can to get loose, so I figure she'll smarten up eventually. I think I scared some city folk - they were asking me questions when she blew during her bath (got the hosed wrapped around her back legs) and she pulls this Mustang size fit and they gasp and jump back and I hollered "GET UP YOU STUPID IDIOT" and she JUMPED forward and I continued on with my conversation. They were staring at me like "IS SHE OK?!" :lol: She gets a touch of the crazies every now and then!

I am LOVING having real equipment to work with. You don't realize how badly your training program is lacking until you have a chance to use proper equipment!

Heh heh anyway, sorry for the novel, I should update on her in the training forum, she's going fabulous and right now our goal is getting her ready for The Big Ride, which is basically an all day ride put on by the park in September. I don't think it's that LONG, probably only about 20-30 miles, but we're out ALL day because the city folk rent ranch horses and stop for "drinking" breaks every hour, LOL.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

*Puts hand up* Yep I've dealt quite a bit with stifle lock. 

It is common on young horses, and often they will just grow out of it. Also in horses that lack muscle around the hindquarters, and also lack of weight around the hind quarters.

The worst case of stifle lock I've dealt with was similar to what's happening with your horse. Mine was a 3 yr old ottb mare. She'd just been let down so was in pretty average condition, very little muscling and very ribby. She was terribly foot sore so she was left in a deep sand yard for a week to let her recover. Well the lack of movement triggered stifle lock and she had it terribly. As with yours, walking her back didn't help much at all, and often she physically could not walk backwards anyway. 

Got the vet out, and he recommended firstly pumping food into her. I'd been slowly feeding her up, but he said to give her a shot of vit. B12 and just stuff it into her to get weight on her quickly. Then to paddock her 24/7. Our paddocks are very slopey and he said fantastic, the slopier the better to strengthen her hindquarters and keep her moving. 

Once she'd been pumped full of food and paddocked after a few more days in the yard, vet said to start working her in hand up and down a hill. So just walking her, twice a day in hand, up and down a big hill for 30 minutes a go. 
This built up her hind end immensely and I was soon able to ride her through this hill work. Trotting and cantering is useless in this instance, the work has to be at walk. 

I think she locked up maybe one more time after that a few months later, when she had run through a post and rail fence and smashed herself up pretty bad, so I HAD to yard for for some time and the lack of movement locked her up again. 
To aleviate the locking if you can't back her up, you can press upwards with your whole hand, over the patella joint to push the ligaments back in place. 

Essentially a locking stifle is caused by the ligaments running over the patella, displacing and this the joint cannot move. Over time, if not addressed it *can* cause arthritis, but being a young horse, I wouldn't panic too much.

DON'T DO SURGERY! The operation involves cutting the ligaments over the joint, so they can't lock anymore. This really is only a desperate last measure, as the horse will only remain sound for a couple of years after if you're lucky, so better for older horses who are going to be retired in the next couple of years anyway. The cutting of ligaments causes the formation of bone chips in the joint, and this causes arthritis in the joint. Most vets will try to steer you away from surgery. 
I think there is also another surgery option, but it is a specialised operation and like the above option, not hugely successful in many cases. 

So work work and more work for her. Build up that muscle and weight on her hind end, keep her moving. Don't yard/stable her, or do so as little as possible, and if possible, work her on hills. 

Lunging is probably not the best idea, the tight circles can put too much strain on the joint and cause it to lock again. My mare would lock on the lunge if the circle was under 20m, fine on a bigger circle, but once we started collection with her she struggled to put an increased load on her hind legs. I'm not sure if it was because she anticipated that her stifle would lock and she'd fall over, or because it was painful for her. Either way, I decided that it was best to give up the dressage with her and sell her on as a pleasure mount.


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