# Head tossing, hackamore kind of, is this horse purchasa good idea?Lots of questions!



## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I know that title was vague, but I have a lot of questions and don't really know where to start! Forgive me if I ramble a bit.

I am shopping for a horse and found one I really like today. I'm gun shy about buying, though, because I fell in love with a horse late November only to find out at the end of the 2-week trial via x-rays that he has navicular problems. I had to give him up, and it broke my heart. I want to make sure I don't fall in love with another horse with problems, hence my questions.

This horse I tried today is a cross between a Breton draft horse and a full-blooded Arabian. She's 15 hands or so, stocky, solid, and well-muscled but not too draft-horsey (legs and hooves are more horse-size than draft-size).

She's 11, and for 8 years was just kept by the breeder (not bred) as a trail horse/paddock mate. For 3 years she's been trained by a somewhat beginner in the Parelli method.

She has only worn a bit once, and she found it strange. Otherwise, she's ridden with a rope halter (the one with knots) and a closed rein that hooks into the bottom of that rope halter.

I had a very experienced rider-friend ride the horse first. All around the ring for the first ten minutes, the horse tossed her head all over the place. It was really strange. She tossed it, shook it, dropped it, over and over. I've seen horses do it a little, but not as much as she did. After about 10 minutes she quit and didn't do it anymore.

She is very responsive to leg and seat cues, but kind of bad with the reins. She hardly paid any attention to the rein cues, which were hard to give anyway seeing as how they were attached to the halter under her chin. She was pretty much on her own program unless I started using my legs completely. I've been taught to use reins, so I didn't like the loss of control. It felt dangerous to me.

She's barefoot and her feet look good. We were in a light dressage/endurance saddle that she was fitted for by a professional, so I don't think saddle fit is the reason for the head-tossing.

She was very, very calm during mounting, even when I fell all over her and kicked her in the leg (don't ask). I was super excited about that. My lesson horse right now always walks off as I'm trying to mount. So annoying.

I'd say her attitude is really, really good. She was calm and docile but had energy when it was time to ride. She responds to trot commands instantly. She doesn't so much with the canter (we didn't have a crop, and I think she's never had one used on her either.) It took a lot of convincing with heel kicks to get her to speed up, and she picked up the wrong lead every time going to the right.

But ... she stops with a mere sitting deep in the seat and side-passes with a touch of the heel. I was very impressed by that for sure.

Here are my questions:

1. What is up with the head tossing? All the articles I read say it's the bit (she wasn't wearing one), the tack (I saw no signs of problems with ill fitting stuff), or ??? Could it just be plain sassiness after not being ridden for a week or so?

2. Is it reasonable to say that I'm going to put her in a snaffle when I do a trial with her? Or would that take a lot of time - to get her used to it - with a horse that's only been ridden in a halter?

3. Would a "real" hackamore be better or would she act the same as she does with the training halter?

4. Would anyone want to hazard a guess as to how this horse will react to having a bit after only doing halter work? Do I need to be worried about being bucked off?

5. Should I run from this horse because she's exhibiting signs of a problem I haven't considered?

Any info or advice you guys are willing to give would be much appreciated.  Thanks in advance!


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

That horse should of been trained to ride with a bit years ago. The tossing her head around could be teeth issues even though shes wearing a rope halter to ride in.

You would have to train her on how to respond to the bit cant just throw on a bit, and expect her to know what to do.
Dont think shed buck you off because of a bit but who know on that one.

Her responding well to leg and seat cues is great probley wouldnt take much to get her going in a bit. But i would have a pre purchase exam done to be safe.

All my horses ride with bits but i hardly ever even touch the reins most cues are from leg and seat. They do know how to give to bit and respond to it when reins are picked up.

Sounds like a nice horse guess its up to you on whether or not you want to take her on.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

1. Two scenarios that I can think of. The first is that she has a tooth problem. I know she has no bit in her mouth but the rope halter putting pressure on the outside of her mouth could be enough to cause pain. The second is that she might not be used to rein pressure at all, or your friend put more contact into the reins than she is used to. The thing about riding in a rope halter is that you don't have as much finesse with them, so the horse either feels pressure or doesn't feel pressure. If she felt constant (even light) pressure on her nose/chin/poll area from your friend and she is not used to it, that may have caused the head tossing. She didn't know how to handle the new pressure so she tried to escape it. 

2. Teaching a horse to accept a bit must be done by a professional, and yes- it can absolutely take time. Some horses accept a bit faster than others...and it is a common misconception that because a horse doesn't chew the bit and lets you put it in it's mouth that it is ready to be ridden in the bridle. The reason she thought it was weird the last time is because it IS weird to her. She doesn't know how to respond to mouth pressure, or how to take up contact with you. So...my 'short' long answer is yes, it is reasonable to ask them them if you can put her in a snaffle on her trial IF you know what you are doing or have someone to do it for you, but it is NOT reasonable to expect to be riding her with her responding extremely well in it in that one or two week period. 

3.What do you mean by "real" hackamore? A Sidepull? A mechanical hackamore? A Dr. Cook? IMO you're seeing her "true colors" while she is in the rope halter. A finished horse should respond just fine in a rope halter without a hitch and should NOT make you feel unsafe. Putting other junk on her face won't fix her base problem...that she is either hurting or does not know how to accept and respond to pressure on her face. Honestly I'm sort of confused about her level of training. You say that she listens well to leg aids, but then that she doesn't go into a canter when you ask with your legs. You should NOT need a crop to get her to canter. Sounds to me like she listens when she wants to and doesn't listen when she doesn't when she doesn't want to...which makes her not fully broke. A bit or rougher equipment (mechanical hacks) will not fix this. Proper training will.

4. She won't like it. No horse likes it. But she can be taught to accept it and work well in it. She may be the kind who you can shove metal into the mouth of and tolerate it stoicly, or she may react violently the first few times you put pressure on her mouth. Its hard to say without knowing the horse. Do NOT try it without professional help, and do not put in her mouth and get on hoping she'll figure it out. You must always consider a buck to be a possibility with a half-trained horse...or even some well broke horses. So yes, its possible.

5. Well that depends. I don't know you. How good of a rider are you? Do you have a trainer? What does your trainer think of the horse? Can he or she help it? Are you willing to take her with the consideration that she may need dental work immediately? Can you handle a 'started' but not 'finished' horse? If your answer is no to any of these, run away. If you have a trainer, maybe not. It really just depends on what you are willing to do. It definitely does not sound like she is finished though, just a plodder- and she sounds like she may be a bit dominant. Are you up for that?


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

I rode in a bosal for a few years before using a bit. I went slow and easy when introducing the bit. Had not big break downs or tantrums. I am by no means a professional trainer, but I do have common sense and realized going on a long trail ride, or doing flat work for an hour in the bit would be asking to much for my horse until he had become used to the feel and cues.

On the flip side, if you are worried about riding without a bridle and confess to needing the reins this horse may not be for you.

As for the head tossing, I can't say since I was not there to watch and see her body language while your friend was riding. 

What does your friend think of her?

Do you have a trainer to help you?

Will you have a vet out?


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm going to try and go back and answer all the questions and respond to comments in one post. Here goes nothin':
@spirit88: I agree. I wish she had been bit trained years ago! 
@Endiku: 

I will have a vet check done and tooth problems will be discovered then if there are any. I've learned my lesson about what might have happened if I had not done a vet check. I'm a strong believer in professional help.  That's why I'm here too. Everyone here on the boards who has responded to this and past questions has been incredibly helpful and I'm very grateful for that help.

Regarding pressure on the halter, as my friend was riding, the owner said she had very loose reins and that it shouldn't be the reason for the head-tossing. The owner was a little confused about why the horse was doing it too, so I think it's more likely a tooth or sassiness issue than a too-much-pressure issue. 

About the snaffle bit ... I take lessons from a very experienced horsewoman at a nearby stable twice per week, and she is great with teaching both riders and horses - but I don't know that she has ever broken a horse before. Whenever we have a horse not acting properly (spooking, dancing sideways, not stopping on cue, not leaving on cue, not jumping, not doing what it's asked in any way), she knows how to correct the problem and work the horse through it, so I believe she could handle the bit introduction issue ... but it would be done with me in the saddle in a small riding ring. She is pregnant so she can't ride right now. When I had a newish horse on trial, he had been broken to a bit but not for long. We did a lot of turning by pulling the rein out to the side in an exaggerated fashion to get him to figure out what I wanted. He caught on very quickly, so it wasn't necessary to do it that way for more than one lesson. I'm pretty good about not having overly short reins. My instructor watches me like a hawk on this and I use colored reins (for students) so I can be sure to have them even lengths when not doing things that required a slightly shorter L or R rein.

This horse had had 3 years of training at a slow pace (the owner is only free weekends and she was a beginner herself - this was her first horse ever), so the things she's learned, she's learned well. But so far they hadn't gotten to going into a canter from a walk. She was fine going into the canter from a trot, but she was weak going into a canter at all clockwise. I think this is just a training issue that can be resolved with practice.

What do I mean by a "real" hackamore? A Little S, a Flower, or a sidepull, I guess. The Parelli style one she's using doesn't give me confidence that the horse understands what my hands are asking for. Maybe it's just my misconception, but having the reins both join in the same place under her chin seems like it must be putting pressure all over her head instead of certain places as cues. (I am a beginner, so this could be all my misunderstanding.)

I consider myself a beginner, even though I'm confident when riding, have ridden out several spooks and bolts without falling, and regularly use a hot-blooded pain in the butt for my lessons. I would continue to take lessons from my instructor during and after the trial (probably for at least another year). I have been riding twice a week under her instruction since August. I am able to work in all gaits (although still not totally confident in the cantor) and jump very small obstacles (just starting that). I've never had to deal with bucking and am quite sure I'd be launched into outer space if I was under a bucking horse. My seat is good, but not that good.

I don't mind having a slightly headstrong horse, because I believe I could assert myself as the leader and get her respect. I have been studying the natural horsemanship methods taught by several trainers and recently bought the fundamental, intermediate, and advanced training DVDs and books from Clinton Anderson (on sale during Thanksgiving! Yay!). I plan to work my way through all of them over the next year with whatever horse I buy. This horse going through Parelli is already experienced with many of the concepts, so I consider that a plus.
@sarahfromsc:

Thanks for the tip on transitioning. I think it's reasonable to first work in the hackamore then move gradually to the bit to see if it helps. Any more tips on how you did this would be much appreciated!

My friend loved the horse, but she's a show jumping level rider and has been riding since she was 5 years old (she's 15 now). She is a much different rider than me and I'm pretty sure she could ride anything without any problems. The horse listened better to her than she did to me, so that tells you a lot. Basically, my friend evaluates first whether the horse is safe for me to test-ride on, then she checks the horse's ability to respond to cues, and she checks the feel of the horse's gaits. According to her, the only problem was that the horse doesn't know how to transition from a walk directly into a canter. She believes that's a fixable issue

Whether my instructor is also a "trainer" per se ... I don't know. She seems to know just about everything, but I don't think she's broken any horses from scratch. There are trainers I could hire, but I'd have to send the horse out for it and wouldn't be able to use her because of the distance. That's kind of a pain.

Yes, I will have a vet out. I cannot buy a horse I can't use for the trail-riding and lessons.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The hugevred fkag for me is that ashe is left handed. She only takes her left lead. At this age and with your skill set you have a left handed horse with no experience working with a bit in her mouth. 

It is nice she responsa to seat and legs and she side passes. Does she side pass im each direction with equal ease? Being left handed I bet not. 

If you are learning this horse is a pass for being left handed and un bitted.


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

seeing that your a beginner and not confident at cantering id say this horse isnt for you. 

She is left handed doesnt like picking up the canter and being a left handed horse, id bet she only does things well going left. 
Being to this horse isnt very well trained and 11 years old that to me is a HUGE issue. 

If i were you id pass on this horse and keep looking just from your last post i honestly think, its in your best intrest to pass on her. There are good well trained horses out there iam sure theres one for you. You just gotta find your partner sometimes that takes a bit of time and effort.

Once you find the right horse it will be worth the waiting dont let emotions take over decision making on buying a horse.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Does it matter that the horse is left-handed? Most horses are, right? Do I need to be particuarly worried about something with a left-handed horse? I haven't found anything on Google to say yes to that, but I could have missed important information easily.

I have been searching for a couple months for a horse. So far, I have not met a perfect one. At this point, I'm not expecting to find perfect. Does a perfect horse even exist? I'm beginning to think not.

What I'd like to find is a horse that has a very good character, a calm demeanor, training enough to be used as a trail and lesson horse, and a willingness to learn more. This horse has all the things but maybe not the training? That's the reason for my post. My rider friend seems to think she'd be fine. I've never ridden a horse bitless, so I don't know what to expect. There are several unknowns here and I want to educate myself as much as possible.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Forgot to answer your question, Elana. Yes, she side passes on both sides without any issues. She jumps right to it.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm afraid I'm also going to give you the answer you don't want to hear....

I know you have been looking for a while. And I know that she has a lovely calm personality.

BUT this is an 11 year old horse with basic training only who has never been introduced to a bit, and you are used to riding with a bit. That's a major deal for you.

She is a head tosser. Ten minutes at the beginning of the session may just be the top of the iceberg - it may be the teeth....it may be a stress response...it may be an extreme reaction to the halter pressure.....it may be a physiological problem... we don't know.

To put together those things, we are looking at the introduction of a bit to an 11 year old who is a head tosser. This says 'walk away' to me.

If I were to ignore all of that problem, what I am hearing is a very calm horse that is probably a bit unresponsive to the leg. It sounds like she prefers to slow down than speed up, and I suspect that this is her unfit draft nature coming out. You feel like you want a slow steady trustworthy horse right now, but I'm just wondering whether two years down the line you will be regretting getting such a 'Steady Mable'.

All in all, I say keep looking, the perfect horse is out there.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

First thing I’d be doing is forgetting about riding the horse in a rope halter as though it’s some nice way to ride it. It isn’t. Those rope halters are used for training precisely because they can be used to bite into a horse’s face a bit if the pressure is needed; Parelli himself said as much in his book years ago and if you don’t have a well developed seat or hands yet there’s a good chance that you will have it biting into the horse’s face. They don’t have anything like the level of refinement possible with a traditional hackamore (rawhide bosal, headstall, mecate and possibly a fiadore). Traditional hackamores are supposed to be used as part of a training system that goes from relatively stiff and large bosal down to relatively soft narrow bosal with matching mecate for each sized bosal; and the action with which you use them, though basically the same throughout, becomes refined to the point where you want the horse working from signals carried through the mecate and changes in the balance of the heel knot of the bosal, not direct pressure. I’m sceptical that you could get that from a rope halter. 

All that being said, if you are talking about mechanical hackamores, I have nothing to say about that, I know nothing about them.

Head tossing; could be a range of things causing it, may be teeth, or the equipment, or the way you are using it, or the horse could just be irritated by something you are doing. Some horses will play up with one person just because they catch on fast and realise they can get away with stuff with you that they couldn’t with someone else. If you are relatively inexperienced and the person who had the horse before had experience, and the horse only does it when you ride it, I’d be guessing the latter option. The way to fix that would be to get some help from someone who is experienced. 

If you want to ride the horse in a bit, which by the sounds of it might be the best option, I would recommend something simple and to the point, basic old snaffle is 99% of the tine the best option. But be prepared to have to train the horse to understand it. 

Ultimately you will have to make the decision about whether you have the experience to get the horse going the way you want it, or the money for someone to train it for you and then you BE ABEL TO KEEP THE HORSE AT THAT STANDARD. I can tell you from experience, as someone who has trained some good horses for other people there’s few things more irritating, or infuriating, than giving someone a really well trained horse, seeing it’s too good for them, seeing the person ruin the horse through lack of experience then have them blame the horse’s alleged lack of training for their inability to keep it at an acceptable standard.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

@Shropshirerosie: I did want to hear that she would work for me, that's true! But I have already walked away from a horse that I fell in love with and that was after a 2-week trial where I got very attached. If this horse is not right for me, I will walk away. I don't want to be unfair to the horse; I have to be able to use her and enjoy her. On the other hand, I don't want to walk away from a horse that has 90% of what I need over the 10% that might be easily dealt with. In my mind, the training of the horse if it's somewhat minor issues is easy to fix. I can hire a trainer, work with the horse and my Clinton Anderson ground work/saddle work DVDs, etc. But if her attitude is stand-offish or she's too high energy, then there's not a lot I can do about that.

I've wanted to ride in a hackamore since I started reading about endurance riding. That's my end goal, BTW. I'd like to be doing that about a year from now. The reason I thought a bit would be necessary is because the horse seemed to not be turning in the Parelli halter like I'm used to my bitted horses turning. 

Perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way; maybe it's a good thing that she's already used to a bitless system and I should just find one that works better for me and her. The Little S looks good or the side pull. That way I have the turning control aid that's a little more obvious than the Parelli. I'm thinking it will be the same or easier than taking a bitted horse and moving it to a hackamore.

I know that in a couple years' time, I might want a faster more challenging horse. If that's the case, I can get a different horse or add to my herd. (or make a herd, since one can't really be a herd, I guess) Right now I take lessons on a hot blooded recently-made gelding (he's 9, was gelded at 7), and I can tell you that I do NOT want one of those. I'm fine with him in the ring and arena, but I'd never take him out on the trail. Way too jumpy and moody and dominant around other horses. I'm really looking forward to having a Stable Mable so I can enjoy more things without worrying I'm going to get dumped over a leaf moving or have to suffer a prancing attack when the horse decides he has to show off.


@AnrewPL: Every time I see one of those mecates I wish I knew how one worked because everyone seems to love them. They just look confusing to me. Here, everyone rides English, so I've never seen one of those riding systems "live". There's no saddle horn obviously on the saddles I use. I can get a western saddle, but my instructor doesn't ride western. Eventually I'd like to be doing endurance and trail riding, so the endurance saddles I've looked at (and the one I own) do not have horns - they're like modified English saddles. It seems like the horn is part of that mecate system. Am I wrong about that?

With regard to the head tossing, she did it only with the experienced rider and only for the first few minutes of the test-ride. After that, she stopped and didn't do it again for the rest of the 45 minutes. I don't think it was a response to an inexperienced rider because then she would have done it with me and she didn't. I'm guessing from what I've read here that it's a tooth issue or a "I haven't been ridden in a while and I'm feeling a little wild" issue.

About keeping the horse at a standard, I completely understand. I have arranged for a very experienced rider to use the horse every weekend so that her training standard is kept high. And I will take lessons on her twice weekly and do ground work the other days to help bring myself up to the higher standard. Everyone seems to agree this would work for both the horse and me.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I don't believe it said in the posts, but exactly how much training has this horse had? You've said some things that make me think she's on the greener side.
You call yourself a beginner rider, and there are just too many things mentioned in this thread that lead me to believe there is a better horse out there for you.

A quick aside: I used to ride an OTTB in lessons that was allergic to dust. When we would ride in side, head tossing was something that happened because of this. So, that's another option~


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

Since you're a beginner and I'm assuming you want a horse to learn and have fun with I'd say pass....there are too many things that jump out regarding this horse.

It may take more time but there will be a much more perfect horse for you soon.

PS if you do buy this horse and she doesn't work out for you, she does not sound like an easy horse to turn around and sell.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

This is all my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

If you do not want to pass this mare up, you need to have your instructor come out with you, and watch you ride her. Ideally she would ride her too, but being that she is pregnant, the next best thing is her seeing you. She knows your riding style better than anyone, and she sounds experienced enough to tell you whether or not this is a horse that you can ride safely and confidently. By seeing the horse in action, she will also being to judge for herself whether or not she thinks SHE can handle the horse. 

The mare doesn't sound ill natured to me, just inexperienced with only very general training. Not her fault, and unlike many others her age doesn't bother me. I've helped train many "older" (in their teens) horses and they ended up just as nice as the young ones in the end, and sometimes even progressed faster because they were mentally mature. HOWEVER. If this mare has been allowed to be sloppy, she IS going to need a steady, experienced hand to work her past the initial "well this is harder than what I've always done so I'm just going to do it my way" stage.

For that reason, my suggestion is to have your instructor out. If she likes the horse, go ahead and take her on trial, take your lessons on her in a basic side pull. No little S or Flower for now, they are the better of the mechanical hacks, but still exert pressure equivalent to that of a short curb bit and they function differently, so like a snaffle they require training. Have the vet take a look-see in her mouth and feel around. Then, if you really still want her and think she is going to be a safe, sound horse, _send her to the trainer for a month or two._ Because you are still a beginner and because your instructor has never broken a horse from scratch yet, I really think this is the only 'safe' option. Send her with the goal of her being responsive to a snaffle bit, picking up her gaits on both sides, and at least beginning to pick up the right lead most of the time. Two months would be best because they trainer would have more time to refine her leads. Continue your own lessons while she is away. Then bring her home and take lessons with your instructor. Have your instructor take over from there.

The reason I say that is because two learning beings (you and your horse) are not a very good match. What you need is a horse that understands whath is a right cue and what is a wrong cue, and responds accordingly so that YOU can learn from it, how to ride properly. Otherwise you are both likely to become frustrated because you have never learned how to teach a horse something, and the horse has never been requested to do it before. Sort of like me trying to teach you Spanish if I can't speak Spanish myself...I'm just going from a guide book or ehow on "how to speak Spanish". It isn't the same, and it won't work well. I think there is hope for this horse, but not without work and money.

Or you can keep looking. Look for a school master, been there done that type horse. Older isn't worse...often its better!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

A horse will naturally pick up a left lead because it's using it's thinking side of it's brain. The right lead, in all horses is a bit more difficult. This horse has a lot of holes in it's training. Once it's ascertained the wolf teeth are gone (sometimes nasty little points). Put a snaffle bridle on under her halter (no reins) and let her get used to carrying a bit. There will be a lot of licking and yawing but it will eventually settle down. This is done while she is in her stall. Allow her to eat hay with it. I'd leave it on for about an hour daily, every day for a week if you can. You need to be somewhat nearby in case she gets into any difficulties with it. If you bring her out to groom her, that's what the halter is for. Once she's settled into wearing a bit, you will have to teach her how to yield when a small amount of pressure is applied, as part of your ground work. I'm going to advise you to not ride her during this time. Let us know how she transitions into a bit and I'll explain how to get her to yield to bit pressure.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I have made arrangements to go visit the horse again with my instructor so I can do a long test ride under her supervision. We did this once before and it was great - she really puts us through our paces, and it gives her a very clear picture of what/how much work the horse needs.

The owner has agreed if I do the instructor ride and a vet check and still like the mare, I can have her for a one-month trial. If I decide in that month she's not for me, she will give me my check back and take the horse back (all with a contract). I thought this was very fair.

@Endiku: I think your idea of sending her out to a trainer is a good one. I'll see what my instructor thinks, and perhaps she knows of someone more local than I do who can come to the stable instead of taking her somewhere else (assuming I go through with a purchase). Also, I bought a Nutural bitless bridle to try, which I think will be better than the Parelli halter she has. Do you think this would be okay? Or should I find a sidepull to try first?

@Zexious: The horse was trained to be a trail horse since she was about 4 and then for 4 years did just that. And then 3 years ago she was bought by the current owner who started doing Parelli work with her and did English riding lessons with her (bitless). The current owner has reached level 3 of the French natural horsemanship tests with her (I don't know the equivalent in the U.S. or U.K.)


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Saddlebag said:


> A horse will naturally pick up a left lead because it's using it's thinking side of it's brain. The right lead, in all horses is a bit more difficult. This horse has a lot of holes in it's training. Once it's ascertained the wolf teeth are gone (sometimes nasty little points). Put a snaffle bridle on under her halter (no reins) and let her get used to carrying a bit. There will be a lot of licking and yawing but it will eventually settle down. This is done while she is in her stall. Allow her to eat hay with it. I'd leave it on for about an hour daily, every day for a week if you can. You need to be somewhat nearby in case she gets into any difficulties with it. If you bring her out to groom her, that's what the halter is for. Once she's settled into wearing a bit, you will have to teach her how to yield when a small amount of pressure is applied, as part of your ground work. I'm going to advise you to not ride her during this time. Let us know how she transitions into a bit and I'll explain how to get her to yield to bit pressure.


Thank you so much! I feel like I was just given the keys to the kingdom.  Really, it's so hard to find actual practical advice on "how to" do something, without paying through the nose for it. I just paid a whopper price for Clinton Anderson's DVDs, but I guess I'm happy to do it if it helps me train a horse to be my partner.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I did actually find a "perfect" horse in my early looking. She is 15, a school horse her whole life, does English and Western (including cutting). She's perfectly trained. My instructor watched me ride her for almost an hour.

Her opinion was that the horse is very well-trained but "sensitive", meaning kind of high-strung. She was also a tiny bit head strong, but seemed to dial it down going from a highly skilled rider to me. She listened to what I wanted, but only when I was a bit firm about it.

The horse definitely has a lot of energy. She's a cross between an anglo-arab and a french saddle horse (good for speed and endurance). My instructor thought maybe she was too much horse for me in the beginning; she said for cantoring she'd probably have me learn on another horse until I was better at it. She also said a more experienced rider would have to work her on weekends so her level didn't go down with me on her all the time.

The problem is I didn't feel any connection to the horse. She was very stand-offish and very TALL. About 1.7 meters, whereas the horses I've liked are more like 1.5 meters. Being an older rider (I'm 44), I do fear falling and I know it's silly but falling from an extra 7 inches up seems like it would make a difference. - I know that's ridiculous. It's irrational, but I can't ignore it completely.

Am I being stupid? Should I just take the perfectly trained too-tall, stand-offish horse and learn to deal with the issues that keep me from making the decision to buy her?


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Ecasey--Oh, my bad!! It sounded like she was on the green side.
Still... I feel like, with this many apprehensions, she may not be the one for you.

I'm sorry, I don't know if this was mentioned... Could you maybe do a trial with her?


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Zexious said:


> Ecasey--Oh, my bad!! It sounded like she was on the green side.
> Still... I feel like, with this many apprehensions, she may not be the one for you.
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't know if this was mentioned... Could you maybe do a trial with her?


I think she kind of is. I mean, trail riding isn't that challenging for a horse who just follows the other ones.  I've been told she is always the least dominant horse in a group.

A trial is possible after I have my instructor watch me on her and have a vet check. (more details above)


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## Outlawrox (Sep 16, 2012)

That's good that you are going out to try the horse out again. From the sounds of it, the horse could have just been stung by a bug or got something unpleasant in her nose. If this is the first time you've seen head tossing like that, then i wouldn't jump to serious medical issues right up front. My mare was stung on the nose a few months ago, now she tosses her head whenever a fly buzzes by. Its a minor annoyance, but i can't say i blame her. 

I am currently training a young horse to accept a bit and bridle for the first time, i'm doing so by introducing the bridle to him for short periods of time in the day. For example, anytime i lead the horse anywhere i use his bridle. (he still wears his halter as a safetey precaution, but i put pressure on the bridle alone)
It's day three of this and he no longer shakes his head when i put the bit and bridle on.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Yeah, that sounds like a good idea then. I was still under the impression she was green, but what do I know? xD I haven't seen her or ridden her.

Your vet and trainer will be able to give you a better idea if this is an appropriate horse for you. If it's not, I'm sure you'll find him/her!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm going for another test ride on Friday, so I'll update this thread then!


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

I think that's a great idea, and sounds like you're thoughtfully covering all bases. The best of luck with her on Friday!!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Northernstar said:


> I think that's a great idea, and sounds like you're thoughtfully covering all bases. The best of luck with her on Friday!!



Thank you!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Nah, you don’t need a saddle horn to ride a horse in a traditional hackamore, the only thing I have found a saddle horn useful for as far as a hackamore goes is hanging the reins on when I get off the horse; to put it in perspective, though I generally like to ride in my wade saddle, which has a horn, I usually started horses in my half breed stock saddle (before I built my Charro saddle), and it doesn’t have a horn, still hackamore trained the horses in that saddle. 
If you were committed to riding in a hackamore there’s no reason not to, it just means that you will have to put a lot of effort into learning how to do it. It’s not as simple as sticking it on the horse’s head and away you go, there is an actual systematic way to do it but if you wanted to do it I’d encourage you to do it.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I really have zero experience with bitless options (I ride in a full cheek, O ring, or when riding western, a Jr. Cowhorse) so I won't say yes or no to the Nutural. I did look at it and it looks fine, but give her time to get used to the facial pressure. Don't let her get AWAY with anything of course, but make sure you give her clear leg/seat signals so she is understanding what you want...preferably before the rein signal to give her a heads up. 

I'm glad you're taking your instructor out. I think you should go with the horse that both you AND your trainer think you have the best chance at safety, satisfaction, and success with, even if that answer is "neither" for now.

Best of luck to you!


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I really think you should forget the rope halter riding, people can call it a natural hackamore or whatever they like, but it is still nylon rope cutting into the horses face.
I look at it from the perspective of hackamore training a horse. It goes roughly like this.
1) Horse is green and has the basics through groundwork; I want the horse working off a hackamore before I get on it. I ground train them in a really big rawhide bosal. 1 inch in diameter on the bars, it is huge and it’s quite stiff. There is little bite as the one inch diameter doesn’t allow it to cut in. The stiffness and heaviness make it really easy to feel signals through the rope attached to it; it is big and stiff so I wrap it in felt to soften it.
2) Start riding the horse in a ¾ inch bosal, still quite big and reasonably stiff, little bite, if any, and still stiff and kind of heavy so easy for the horse to feel the movement without it cutting. This is important because in the early stages you DO need to give the reins a pull now and then. You go giving the reins a necessary pull in a rope halter it will bite into the horses face.
3) The next steps are to refine the horse’s sensitivity so that it feels the movement in the bosal’s balance and respond to that before you ever need a pull. This is done through matching a horse’s performance with an appropriate sized bosal, and handling the reins right.
 There are many other bits and pieces that are done as you go, you might make the bosal lose or tight, depending on the horse’s performance or just what you set out to do at the time, and you can always match the bosal and mecate so they balance; and you can move the bosal around on their face. Done right none of it cuts into the horse’s muzzle, nor should it saw away on their jaw or on the bridge of their nose. I can envisage that you might be able to ride a horse at a high level of performance in a rope halter AFTER it has been refined to a high level in a hackamore; I’m sceptical that you could get a horse to that kind of performance with a rope halter alone, not at least without a lot of acute pressure on the horse’s face, especially in the early stages of training.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the horse should stay permanently in a rope halter. It should be transitioned to some sort of bitless option (I'd really advise against a mechanical hack unless it is a little S or Flower) I don't think it is a good idea to try to bosal train a horse if you have no experience with a bosal (like the OP) either. And if I remember correctly, bosals are only supposed to be an aid in training a bridle horse or polished normal western riding horse, right? Not as a permanent option.

The only hack I have experience with is the little S, and I had very nice control of the gelding who was a HOT HOT endurance racing world champion click. If you used one though, IMO you should get a sheepskin covering and use a looser curb strap than the one pictured with me riding. (I had no control over his tack as it was not my horse.)

IMO though, every horse should at least know how to work with a bit as part of 'being broke', even if that is not what they are USUALLY ridden in.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

Sure, I agree, hence the post; it would be better not to ride the horse in a rope halter. What I was putting above are the reasons I don’t think it’s a good idea to use rope halters as though they are a “natural” alternative to a hackamore. Again, not insinuating that that is what the OP had in mind, just my opinion on why not to do it.
Generally I would agree, that without experience it would not be a good idea to start training a horse into a traditional hackamore, and why in my original post I recommended a plain old snaffle bit; however, one does have to start somewhere, and if the OP was willing to put the effort into learning how to hackamore train a horse, and do it right, I could only encourage her. 
Concerning whether or not to ride a horse in them permanently, that will depend. If the horse continually goes well in one and you know how to keep them light, there’s no reason you couldn’t ride a horse with a hackamore indefinitely. You can certainly get them working to impeccable standards in a hackamore, indeed that’s a necessary condition of transferring them into a spade bit. In fact it’s my feeling, perhaps conceit, that you will get a horse to better refinement in a series of hackamores, and keep it there better, than you can with a snaffle bit; but that’s just me, others no doubt would disagree.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Be careful with the Nurtural bitless bridle. Some horses absolutely hate the feeling of the full head hug that it gives because it makes them feel trapped and overwhelmed.

I don't think she sounds like a bad or an ill-tempered horse, she's just lacking serious training.

Judging from what you've said about her history, she was likely trained to do the "showy" things well like sidepass and stop from seat cues only, but many of the basics of training a useful horse were completely skipped over.

As for the head tossing, that could be one of a dozen things. She could have a tooth bothering her, she could have some back pain, she could have been unaccustomed to the pressure on her face....BUT, where I am leaning, again just based on what you've told me of her history, is that it may be nothing more than a habit stemming from having been ridden by someone with harsh hands. Likely the beginner who was into parelli. 

Most horses, if they have a rider who is inconsistent with their release or they are constantly hanging of the horse's head, will start doing anything they can to evade or alleviate the pressure including head shaking, head bobbing, pulling their nose down to the ground (rooting out), sticking their nose in the sky (stargazing), and tucking their nose to their chest.

I second what Endiku said. If you do decide to bring this horse home, she'll need some serious re-training from a good trainer.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I don't like mechanical hacks as my mare FREAKS in them (I ride her in a Tomb thumb and she is perfect but she will rear and try to flip over in a hack). I have also seen more head tossing and dented muzzles from them. I can ride My mare in a sidepull halter (mustang halter) and I just got a 2 in 1 bitless bridle. It converts from a Dr. Cook cross under bridle to a sidepull. Im using the Dr.Cook style and she s excepting contact and not raising or tossing her head.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I know this is straying from my original topic, but since I have so many of you experienced riders chiming in about bits and hackamores, I'm going to go ahead and ask it ...

If a horse is to be used for trail/endurance riding, why would you ever transition out of a hackamore and into a snaffle? Isn't it easier to let the horse drink and eat without the bit? 

I realize no halter or bit is pain-free when used incorrectly. They're all designed to exert pressure somewhere. But it seems like a cushioned hackamore could be less painful than a snaffle, when (mis)used by a beginning rider. Or maybe I'm all wrong about that.  I've been learning in a snaffle and my instructor says I have a light touch with the bit, but I just feel like a hackamore might be better for the trail.

Regardless, I'm willing to try anything, to learn anything, so that my horse and I can have the best riding experience together, be it a hackamore or a bit situation.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh, and by the way, THANK YOU so much, all of you who have added your thoughts and opinions. I really appreciate it.

Happy holidays to everyone!


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## Pyrros (Feb 10, 2012)

Chiming in late and granted I am not an expert on hackamores, but I tend to avoid them. I was/am admittedly a little terrified of them, I've seen horses have their noses broke from hackamores being used badly (not that horses can't be badly harmed/have jaws broken from bits as well). My biggest reason of being leery of hackamores was simply that I was never really taught to use one and I am paranoid something would happen and my horse would end up badly injured, as stupid as it might be. I wouldn't consider them always more comfortable or 'safe' either. Of course it depends on the hackamore and the rider's hands as well but with heavy hands they can be very harsh. I've only ever ridden in bridles with bits or just bridleless or with a halter, but when riding with a bit I've never had a horse that was uncomfortable eating/drinking while wearing it, regardless of the bit, be it snaffle or curb etc. I would worry about the shanks bumping against things with a curb or otherwise shanked bit however.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I have never ridden without a bit, and I can observe that bits do not impede a horses ability to eat or drink in anyway.

I have ridden a few low level endurances and don't recall seeing a large number of bitless bridles. I think we would have noticed on them and commented if they were obviously popular at endurance events.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

I used a mechanical hackamore on my first horse after he ran through some bits. Later I learned how to use a bosal on some home bred horses, then transition to a snaffle,& work up from there to a spade bit for some Western showing I did way back when. With light hands, most anything can be accomplished. I also used a double bridle & learning that really took some concentration. I put that on a Paint mare one day & I knew right away she wasn't ready for that! Also, no one has mentioned it, but sometimes Arabs just toss there heads a bit-I had one Arab mare for 17 years,& she loved doing the "snake-neck" thing. Mostly at liberty, but sometimes under saddle-she just had to settle a bit before being asked to do things.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Cacowgirl said:


> I used a mechanical hackamore on my first horse after he ran through some bits. Later I learned how to use a bosal on some home bred horses, then transition to a snaffle,& work up from there to a spade bit for some Western showing I did way back when. With light hands, most anything can be accomplished. I also used a double bridle & learning that really took some concentration. I put that on a Paint mare one day & I knew right away she wasn't ready for that! Also, no one has mentioned it, but sometimes Arabs just toss there heads a bit-I had one Arab mare for 17 years,& she loved doing the "snake-neck" thing. Mostly at liberty, but sometimes under saddle-she just had to settle a bit before being asked to do things.


This horse is 1/2 arab, so maybe that's what it is! That would be nice. 

I talked to the owner about the teeth. She said she has wolf teeth that aren't pulled but never bothered her before and her teeth were last floated 2 years ago. That seems like too long to me!

So maybe it's a dental thing or the arab thing. I can live with either of those, because if it's a dental thing, I can fix it, and if it's just an arab thing, I can learn to live with it. I just didn't want it to be a sign of something very bad to come.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Yep, could be the lack of dental care for 2 years (they usually need done at least once a year, sometimes 6 months as they get older) or those wolf teeth. You'll definitely need to pull those before introducing a bit.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

My Arab only tosses her head when her tack is hurting her (saddle slid and is pinching or saddle slid and now breast collar is to tight). If she still has wolf teeth the pressure from the halter could be aggravating them (they can HURT). I would have a vet look at them.


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## dlady (Apr 13, 2013)

When I first got Gilbert he did a lot of head shaking. I tried riding him in a rope halter and he didn't do it. I had the vet out to float his teeth which I found out was way over due after talking to the previous owner. I rode him in a rope halter for about 2 weeks before trying the bit again. The difference was amazing. There was no head shaking unless he saw a spot of grass that he wanted to nibble on. I mostly ride in a 12 acre pasture. This shaking was a behavior problem so I make him move his feet. Now when we ride, it's like he's saying "Let me do what the lady wants and I will get that grass much quicker."
I usually remove the reins and walk around the pasture for awhile and let him graze for a bit. He usually just nibble and follow me around. He has no problem eating with his bit.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I used the mechanical hackamore, but made sure the top was smooth flat leather, not the braided leather over a chain. I had the chin chain very loose. My older horses loved them, did not toss their heads in them, and would with the snaffles with or w/o chin straps, d rings or O rings. 
If she is not trained to a bit, it will take some time to get her used to one, and could encourage more head tossing, I would tip the nose out when they started head tossing.


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## ridemcowgirl069 (Jul 29, 2013)

It could be any number of problems from teeth to something as bad as tmj and headaches or it might just be a training problem. It might even be the rope halter. The reason those things are effective is because of the placement of the knots. They lay on nerve bundles on the horses face and when presure is applied it causes pain. Get a vet out to rule out anything and if all is well then ride her again in bosal. Honestly though in my opinion if you are unsure enough about a horse to post about it here then the horse probably won't be a good fit for you. I would keep looking until you find that perfect match that becomes your new soul mate. Trust me when you find him you'll know and there won't be any question about it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

ridemcowgirl069 said:


> It could be any number of problems from teeth to something as bad as tmj and headaches or it might just be a training problem. It might even be the rope halter. The reason those things are effective is because of the placement of the knots. They lay on nerve bundles on the horses face and when presure is applied it causes pain. Get a vet out to rule out anything and if all is well then ride her again in bosal. Honestly though in my opinion if you are unsure enough about a horse to post about it here then the horse probably won't be a good fit for you. I would keep looking until you find that perfect match that becomes your new soul mate. Trust me when you find him you'll know and there won't be any question about it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will always be unsure about any horse because I'm a beginner, and I trust the advice of people more experienced than I am. I just want to do the right thing by the horse and me, so that's why I bring my questions here. It's easy for me to fall for a horse emotionally, but I want to be using my head and not my heart when it comes to this decision.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

dlady said:


> When I first got Gilbert he did a lot of head shaking. I tried riding him in a rope halter and he didn't do it. I had the vet out to float his teeth which I found out was way over due after talking to the previous owner. I rode him in a rope halter for about 2 weeks before trying the bit again. The difference was amazing. There was no head shaking unless he saw a spot of grass that he wanted to nibble on. I mostly ride in a 12 acre pasture. This shaking was a behavior problem so I make him move his feet. Now when we ride, it's like he's saying "Let me do what the lady wants and I will get that grass much quicker."
> I usually remove the reins and walk around the pasture for awhile and let him graze for a bit. He usually just nibble and follow me around. He has no problem eating with his bit.


Since it's been 2 years since the last dental check, I'm going to bet she at least needs her teeth floated.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

ecasey said:


> I will always be unsure about any horse because I'm a beginner, and I trust the advice of people more experienced than I am. I just want to do the right thing by the horse and me, so that's why I bring my questions here. It's easy for me to fall for a horse emotionally, but I want to be using my head and not my heart when it comes to this decision.


 Yeah, it’s funny but when you are inexperienced it’s hard to find your “soul mate” horse, but strangely, when you have years of experience you can get along with almost any horse and have it for a “soul mate”. You seem to be on the right track. Try a few things, see what the horse responds to; due to inexperience, expect things to not work out just right, and for you and the horse to be confused, and always try to have someone with experience and a good knowledge of training horses around to talk to and soak up everything like a sponge, from horse trainers, and the horse. 
As long as you have concern to learn for the benefit of the horse and you, you will do fine.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Thank you, AnrewPL! I will definitely be following your advice.


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## ridemcowgirl069 (Jul 29, 2013)

ecasey said:


> This horse is 1/2 arab, so maybe that's what it is! That would be nice.
> 
> I talked to the owner about the teeth. She said she has wolf teeth that aren't pulled but never bothered her before and her teeth were last floated 2 years ago. That seems like too long to me!
> 
> So maybe it's a dental thing or the arab thing. I can live with either of those, because if it's a dental thing, I can fix it, and if it's just an arab thing, I can learn to live with it. I just didn't want it to be a sign of something very bad to come.


Ok those wolf teeth are a problem and will always hurt the horse when you ride. Look these people sound like the scum of the horse world who are taking advantage of you to make a buck. They don't care about the horse which is why they can't be bothered to spend $30 once a year to float her teeth. Oh and not to mention they lied to you about it not being a problem. There's a reason wolf teeth get pulled before a horse is broke to ride. The wolf teeth are the first set in front of the molars and if they're still in the bit can't sit properly and it smacks into those teeth with every cue from the reins. I bought a rescue a little over a year ago and we couldn't figure out why he would shack his head every time we put the bridle on. One day I happened to look in his mouth and there they were. Its been over a year now and it still takes 10 minutes to get a bridle on which is a huge improvement to 45, all because he has developed the habit already. Just remember even if you do have her teeth done old habits die hard so be prepared to retrain which might take a month or it could be years. Depends on the horse. The real thing you need to think about is if they lied about it not bothering her ( which obviously she shacks her head) what else have they lied about to make a quick buck.you need to find a good vet that can see through the bs and tell him everything you know about the situation before having do a vet check on the horse. Then ask for his honest opinion about if you should buy her or not. If you do buy her have a contract written up because there is no lemon law when it comes to horses so you need to cover yourself. You wouldn't want to get her home and find out they lied about something serious and now you're the one stuck with the vet bills. I live out in tennessee and you see that all the time out here. I actually have a crazy pony that my ex bought for his son in july. The owner druged the horse and said she was perfectly trained. After him giving up I'm now the one stuck with her because it would be irresponsible of me to sell a horse I know is dangerous. So now I'm busy training a pony I don't want instead of working with my eventers. Be very careful when buying a horse and always make sure you cover your behind
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ridemcowgirl069 (Jul 29, 2013)

Another thing too is to be realistic. You don't know the horse is perfect for you by going out and seeing her once or twice. That takes months of work before you know. Always make sure you use your logic and not your emotions. Emotions seem to always get people in trouble when it comes to horses. I've been there done that and in the end it caused a lot of heartache. So take your time and look at other horses as well. In fact go look at 5 or even 10 this weekend. Then write out a list of what you like and go from there. Always take your time and don't get attached to an animal that isn't yours even if they could be in the future they still aren't yours until you write the check. Always remember that and you'll do just fine
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

ridemcowgirl069 Thanks for your comments. You're assuming a lot about these people that is wrong, though. I've spent a bit of time with them, and their biggest fault is just being ignorant to bits and issues with horse teeth. The owner has only been riding 3 years and she still can't really cantor, so I know she doesn't ride often. She has never used a bit, nor has the horse, so wolf teeth might not be an issue if there are never bits in the horse's mouth.

I took a second test-ride on the horse Friday and she only shook her head for about 3 seconds and then that was it. So I'm not as concerned as I was before. Obviously the teeth need to be dealt with and the owner has offered to take care of that once I brought it to her attention. I truly believe she cares about her horse and hasn't hidden anything from me that she's aware of.

I have already test-rode 8 horses, so I am doing my homework and looking far and wide. I hate to think how many miles I've put on my car. Plus I'm on this forum every single day reading and posting, trying to do the right thing.

There is no such thing as the perfect horse, but luckily, all horses are trainable.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

ridemcowgirl069 said:


> They don't care about the horse which is why they can't be bothered to spend $30 once a year to float her teeth.


 I just thought I'd note that floating prices vary a LOT by area...I live in Texas and it cost me *$138* for a _level one _float to be done (Low sedation...just enough to make the horse woozy and compliant) with very basic work. Then my filly ended up having a cracked tooth that needed pulled and an extra sharp edge worked on a bit and I ended up walking out with a *$199* bill. It would have cost me another $20 per level of sedation as well if my filly hadn't been quiet during the procedure. Quite a big difference compared to $30! I've actually never heard of a _certified_ equine dentist/vet that charged less than $100 for a very basic float. Any person who charged less was either a random person on craigslist off of the street who didn't have the certifications to sedate (leaving you with a crap job at best on the horse's teeth) or someone who didn't know what they were doing. Neither are people I'd be willing to trust my horse's mouth with. It costs $75 where I live to have Wolf Teeth pulled.

Ecasey- what did your trainer think of the mare?  Is she the lucky winner?


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

I am also keen to know if you have decided that this horse is the one for you?


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I had my second ride with my instructor there. She loved her. Of the 3 horses she's seen me on, including the one I had for a 2-week trial (before he was eliminated due to nav problem spotted in xrays), she likes this one best. Great attitude, great training foundation, good age for me. Tomorrow I go to watch the vet check being done! I will update when I know more.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

:thumbsup: fingers crossed for the vet check


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

The vet check was done today and the horse passed with no problems!

The vet said the teeth could use a floating but it's not an emergency situation. The feet are sound and trimmed barefoot very nicely. (YAY!)

She said her back legs have short strides but that could be either because of her cross (Arab/Draft) or lack of training, nothing that will hinder her use as a lesson and trail riding horse.

She said her short back was good, that she probably wouldn't have the kind of back problems that long-backed horses suffer. She had zero pain in the back or neck anywhere.

The vet loved her conformation and attitude for what I want to do with her. She gave me the thumbs up!

So I handed over a check and now I'm looking for someone to transport the horse for me since neither the former owner nor I have a trailer. 

Oh, and the vet said that the head tossing just came across as an Arabian thing to her. She saw nothing physically causing that problem.

And now ... on to the next phase of horse ownership ... introducing her to her new home and then some ground work.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Congrats!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Congrats!


Thanks so much!

I'm unbelievably excited. I feel like a kid at Christmas. My birthday is on the 11th. This is the best birthday present EVER.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Congratulations!!! Pictures are a must once you get her home  We must see this beautiful, apparently sassy mare!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Endiku said:


> Congratulations!!! Pictures are a must once you get her home  We must see this beautiful, apparently sassy mare!


Just put her up on my profile pic. Not sure if it worked or not! 

Thank you!

Nope, seems like my old pic is still there...


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Maybe it needs resized? Sometimes that is why they don't show up.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

Congratulations!! So happy for you! I'll never forget feeling in awe when I acquired my first horse - you'll love horse ownership!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Northernstar said:


> Congratulations!! So happy for you! I'll never forget feeling in awe when I acquired my first horse - you'll love horse ownership!


Thank you! I got a taste of it when I had another horse on 2-week trial. I'm really looking forward to being in the barn and out on the property there instead of in my house.


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

Congratulations!!! Welcome to the wonderful world of horsey ownership.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Shropshirerosie said:


> Congratulations!!! Welcome to the wonderful world of horsey ownership.


Thanks so much! I can't get my profile pic to change, but here's a pic of her:


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

Congratulations on your new horse


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

spirit88 said:


> Congratulations on your new horse


Thank you!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Pretty girl! Love her facial markings. Do they cover her whole nose?


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Endiku said:


> Pretty girl! Love her facial markings. Do they cover her whole nose?


Pretty much. The blaze narrows to a kind of rounded point just above the end of her upper lip.


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

She's a beauty! Her first avatar of many yet to come, I'm sure


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Northernstar said:


> She's a beauty for your avatar



Awww, thank you! I think so too.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

She's gorgeous! Congrats!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

smrobs said:


> She's gorgeous! Congrats!


Thanks!


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## dlady (Apr 13, 2013)

Congrats!!! she's a beauty. Patiently waiting for more pictures of her.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

dlady said:


> Congrats!!! she's a beauty. Patiently waiting for more pictures of her.


I'm picking her up tomorrow, so more pics soon!


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## Northernstar (Jul 23, 2011)

ecasey, I know you'll be wearing that_ "This is my horse and I'm now her owner!" perma-grin you'll be wearing for weeks to come!_ Good luck tomorrow, and have fun!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Northernstar said:


> ecasey, I know you'll be wearing that_ "This is my horse and I'm now her owner!" perma-grin you'll be wearing for weeks to come!_ Good luck tomorrow, and have fun!



You know it!


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