# Pit bulls?



## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I would like to know everyones opinion on the breed. Specifically whether or not they should be banned. IMO I do not think they should be banned. But I do think that there should be certain requirements you have to take to own one. Because of their history, I think that in order to own a pit bull you should have to obtain a liscense, take training classes, have your dog registered and microchipped. This would make sure (well at least make it harder) that people who do not have the responsibility to raise and train their dog appropiatley can not own one. Even if all of this happened there are still going to be "accidents". My sisters friend ( a vet tech) had a pit she rescued when it was a puppy. the dog lived with her and her other pets for years. Then one day the dog snapped. She came home and the dog had killed every single animal in the house. For no know reason. Thne there's my best friends dogs. They are absolute sweethearts and I love them, that being said, I will not bring my dog (who i take everywhere) to their house. To much of a risk.


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

I am not against dog breeds, but you have to remember what they were bred for. I personally would never have one around my kids. They are a dominate and aggressive breed.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Crimson they are not aggressive as much as they have drive. If you actually knew what they were bred for you would not have a problem having them around your kids. Dog aggression is VERY different than people aggression.


Regulations are a great thing (cough cough) except - the people who are currently the main problem for this breed are not the type who will bother to follow any new regulations that are out there. The laws that are out there now are not being enforced, do we really need more for them to ignore?


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Stricter consequences? I think that law enforcement is being lazy on the subject. I also think that banning them completely is ridiculous. Maybe if law enforcement did actually take charge of the situation the problem would be resolved.


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## AlabamaHorseMom (Jan 20, 2010)

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> I am not against dog breeds, but you have to remember what they were bred for. I personally would never have one around my kids. They are a dominate and aggressive breed.


I take it you have never owned or known one of these amazing dogs.
The character, and love of life in these dogs is amazing. They are NOT aggressive, unless trained that way. They want nothing more than to lay up on the couch with you and sleep the day away. 
I dont own a pit, but I do own an Ol' Southern White American Bulldog who is closely related to the pit type breed. I would trust my dog with my life.
Please dont judge the breed because of the acts of PEOPLE. Its this thinking that gets BSL laws in the making.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I think law enforcement is busy dealing with murders and rapes and the fact that the idiot with the corner store has an attic full of fighting dogs is really not a huge worry to them. 

It is next to impossible for anyone (even law enforcement) to get people who truly do not feel the laws are meant for them to follow them.



AlabamaHorseMom said:


> They want nothing more than to lay up on the couch with you and sleep the day away.


With blankets. They require blankets.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

very true. I just hate to see these dogs being put down day after day. I work at a vet clinic and most of the pits that come in are females and well trained. Then we get the ones that are unnueterted males, scars on them, always on the skinny side and it's their first time at the vet. You can tell what they have been used for. It's horrible. A man who lives in my town ( i am good friends with his younger brother) left his dogs (pits and pit crosses) to starve when he moved. The police cheif did nothing because he did not want to get involoved ( he is the mans friend) and one of the dogs died. The others were rescued, but I'm sure because of their breed and what they were trained for (hog hunting) most if not all will be put down. It's a sad story.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

i personally have owned multiple pitbulls, my family has had one since i was 4yrs old and i absolutely love them to bits! i have two at the moment one is a full blooded rednose the other is a mix, i find them to b the most affectionate and loyal dog ive ever met and my big boy is over 100 lbs and i knew his parents and knew the people who raised him until he was 1 1/2 and he was raised around kids and loves my nephew who is 6. he lets my smaller labx beat the crap out of him and never even growls or anything. the ones i find to be more agreesive are the pit mixes which i have one as well and she was a rescue which she has attacked both of my other dogs before and we have had her with the other two dogs for 4yrs and have never had a problem till one day she snapped and freaked out. i do believe they are not a good first dog to have, nor are they good for someone who is timid bc they are a breed that needs to be put in their place and reminded of that. once u show them u are alpha, there are rarely any problems unless its a certain line, bc they were bred more for fighting recently in the years that have come, there are certain lines that tend to b more agressive esp toward other animals, but rarely toward people. they are very good guard dogs esp bc of the fact they look scary and if they think u are scared, theyre not gonna let u in their house/yard. i love my pit and i will always have one even around my kids but only as long as i know how it was bred and where it came from. 

ive also learned esp since they are so loyal and loving, u'll see the articles on tv where the dog has attacked the kid or the parent or whatever and its bc theyve had the dog before the child and once the child came into the parents life the dog became jealous, when the dog attacked it was trying to show it was jealous and wanted more love. or its the instance where the owner was not being as dominant as they should have been and the dog was trying to challenge to be alpha.

i believe there should be tougher consquences on people when it comes to these types of things bc its never the dogs fault, its just like a gun doesnt kill someone, u have to pick it up to do so. like i said some of them can be agressive depending on circumstances but u should know all about them and know a trainer or something to help u when owning one to avoid any mishaps regarding these types of instances. by no means are they an easy dog to own, but there are multiple breeds that arent easy to own, the only reason pits get a bad rap is bc when they bite, they always do damage. 

i speak of all of this from first hand experience and i have a very good friend who is a UKC pitbull breeder and my other friend was a vet and i have always had a trainer, one that specialized in pits and pit rescues.

sorry it is so long but this is something i feel very passionate about, thank you Lonestar22 for starting the thread.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Being euthanized is not a horrible thing really! There are lots of good dogs that need homes. As much as I love my pibble (and the one I had before her) they are for sure not the dog for everyone (they require an owner that is truly responsible because everyone is just drooling to blame them for every bad thing that happens) and I would rather they be euthanized than end up in the wrong hands.

Sad as it is.


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> I am not against dog breeds, but you have to remember what they were bred for. I personally would never have one around my kids. They are a dominate and aggressive breed.


They are actually great with children and have the nick name of "nanny dog". They also have better temperments than a lot of "family" dogs. You do have to be careful with them around other animals because they do have natural aggression towards other animals. But they have no natural aggression towards humans.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

^^^ Thank you. I believe that when the breed was being developed dogs that showed aggression towards humans were culled. I can't remember my source though.... 

That said I still don't think your average person should own them due to their potential for damage if they do "snap". But I also don't think that most of the people that own labs should own them either because they are rarely taken care of correctly. I'm a little bit anal when it comes to dog ownership.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> ^^^ Thank you. I believe that when the breed was being developed dogs that showed aggression towards humans were culled. I can't remember my source though....


I too can not name the actual name of the books or articles I have read on the subject. But I do know that is true. They were bred to be people friendly dogs.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Being euthanized is not a horrible thing really! There are lots of good dogs that need homes. As much as I love my pibble (and the one I had before her) they are for sure not the dog for everyone (they require an owner that is truly responsible because everyone is just drooling to blame them for every bad thing that happens) and I would rather they be euthanized than end up in the wrong hands.
> 
> Sad as it is.


I think you missunderstood. The horrible part is the fact that these dogs are losing their lives bc of their owners stupidity. I have seen many dogs be out down so I know exactly how that works. I do not know how the human brain works in order for someone to think that a dog is disposable.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> I think you missunderstood. The horrible part is the fact that these dogs are losing their lives bc of their owners stupidity. I have seen many dogs be out down so I know exactly how that works. I do not know how the human brain works in order for someone to think that a dog is disposable.



Lots of irresponsible people in the world. That simple! People think everything is disposable. And heck, free dogs are every where so why bother taking these dogs when you can get a new dog when you get to the new place, etc.

It is impossible for people who truly care to understand the brain of those who do not. 

The bottom line is - those of us who care but are stuck with the responsibility of disposing of the problems caused by those who did not can need to realize that we are not the problem (euthanizing) we are solving a problem made by someone else.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

MN Tigerstripes;532649[/QUOTE said:


> very true they are not for everyone and not everyone is capable of owning one. not to mention they are very smart, u always have to give them something to do or think about, to work their mind. i think they tend to go bad too when people get them and do nothing with them, they were originally bred to be working dogs, not to just sit in ur apt and look pretty! mine loves it when we play fetch with his toy, he never gets tired. we go and hide it for him too so he can go find it.
> 
> ive learned too they they are a very much of an owner pleasing animal, if they love u theyll do anything just like a TB, guess thats why i have both lol and also that if u get mad at them they feel it, i dont even have to raise my voice at Zeus if he does anything if my tone changes or i give him a certain look he knows and he pouts and tries to apologize to no end until i forgive him, he'll even start crying


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I'm a little bit anal when it comes to dog ownership.


Me too. I hate when an owner says their dog is to hyper so they keep it penned up, and when they let it out and it's still hyper they get mad and yell at it. It's not the dogs fault they aren't getting the excersize and stimulation they need to rid themselves of excess energy. They have ne daily interaction with the dog yet they expect the dog to listen to their commands and be calm.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Crimsonhorse01 said:


> I am not against dog breeds, but you have to remember what they were bred for. I personally would never have one around my kids. They are a dominate and aggressive breed.


Pit bulls were _originally_ bred to bait bulls, not fight other dogs. The pit bulls of today are not being bred as fighting animals (except by certain unsavory characters) but as pets and show dogs. They're what's considered a performance breed now, not a hunting/fighting one.

Great Danes were _originally_ bred to hunt boars, but no one is screaming about the evil Danes hunting and eating their children. Danes are considered sight hounds as well as being a working breed. Although the only thing my Dane works at is sleeping as much as possible! :wink:

Pitties have gotten a bad rap because of all the hysteria and hype surrounding them. What most people don't know is that even dogs used in the fighting rings can be rehabbed and become wonderful pets. Not all of them certainly, but a good number.

What something was originally bred for and what they're being bred for today is usually complete polar opposites.


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## Kashmere (Nov 30, 2009)

Yes I am against banning them.
My german shepherd pup got attacked by a pit bull once.
And he plays with his buddy Spot, a Pit Bull, just whenever he can.

It's a matter of training and properly socializing I think.
Some people have pit bulls that should not have them..

The pit bull that attacked my dog Scout clearly was not with the right owner.
She was a lady who didn't even grab her dog back, someone else did that who was at the dogpark at the same time.
All she could do was hold her hands in front of her mouth and go all "Sorry!"
The dog simply didn't listen to her at all..

Are pit bulls bad dogs now?
I don't think so.
Like I said, punish the deed, not the breed.
It's the owners that need to get a good idea of what they're going into.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

agreed Speed Racer. Take the poodle for example. IT's original purpose was a water retrieving dog. Now it's been bred down to lap size and is used mainly as a companion. I would love to get a pair of standard poodles and use them as duck dogs. Oh to see the other hunters faces!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Amba1027 said:


> They are actually great with children and have the nick name of "nanny dog". *They also have better temperments than a lot of "family" dogs.* You do have to be careful with them around other animals because they do have natural aggression towards other animals. But they have no natural aggression towards humans.


 
When the family Jack Russell attacks someone it's not likely to rip out thier throut and kill them. The reason so many pitbulls get in trouble isn't that they are aggressive it's that they are big enough to really hurt someone. My 30 lb border collie would be much easier to fight off than a 100 lb pitbull. I don't see that they are really much of a problem though. The police and government have other things to worry about than regulating dog laws. Very very few dogs attack people and very very few of those that attack seriously injure people. I would NOT have a pitbull around my kids untill they outwieghed it considerably. It's not really about the odds it's about what's at stake.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> agreed Speed Racer. Take the poodle for example. IT's original purpose was a water retrieving dog. Now it's been bred down to lap size and is used mainly as a companion. I would love to get a pair of standard poodles and use them as duck dogs. Oh to see the other hunters faces!


I love standard Poodles. They're REAL dogs, not those froo-froo yappy things that people think all Poodles are. Smart as a whip, loyal, no shedding, and hypoallergenic to boot.

I love my Dane, but I think the next dog I get will be a standard. No stupid poofy show cuts for my dog though, I'll keep him or her in what's called a puppy or kennel clip.

Were you aware that a team of standards ran in the Iditarod a few years back? They didn't win, but they finished the race. That's hardly what I'd call a froo-froo dog!


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

pitbulls are fantastic dogs and great family dogs!! i wish i could get my parents to believe me.. i've wanted one my whole life!
i live by this when it comes to all animals not just dogs
"there is no such thing as a mean animal, only ignorant and cruel people.."
also i am sorry if i hijack your thread with these but i love these videos of pitbulls!




 




 




 




 




 
alright alright thats enough! i'm sorry i hijacked!!
let's hear it for the bully breeds!!! God loves em so why can't we?


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

The clips that cover the joints were done so to keep the animals joints warm in the cold water, yet less hair for things to stick to and to keep it out of the way. So it has a purpose. But I like the puppy clips as well. I would keep mine in a sporting clip wich is alot like the puppy clip.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

So your friend has a pit bull that killed every animal and they didn't put it down? That does not make sense. She must not have had much regard for her other animals or others sefety.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I have often said that if a chiauhahua (sp) wieghed for than 2 pounds they would be illegal. I have never seen dogs with a meaner dispostition than those yappy little things. I wouldn't mind breeding a little pitbull into some stock dog breeds to put a little muscle and size in them.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Pit bulls are greatly misunderstood dogs. They are NOT aggressive unless provoked... gee.. sounds like any other dog to me. Not dominant at all. The ones I know are little wusses! My dog is a Mastiff/Pitt cross and she is the scaredy cat of the household. She wouldn't hurt a fly.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

eventerdrew said:


> Pit bulls are greatly misunderstood dogs. They are NOT aggressive unless provoked... gee.. sounds like any other dog to me. Not dominant at all. The ones I know are little wusses! My dog is a Mastiff/Pitt cross and she is the scaredy cat of the household. She wouldn't hurt a fly.


Zeus is terrified of the vaccuum cleaner and he lets the cat beat him up, she smacked him once with her paw (she doesnt have front claws either) and he yipped and ran away. now they play and chase each other around and sleep together on the bed.... 









now look at that face and ears and tell me how that could be a mean ole bad dog! lol

















sorry i got a little carried away there, i love my Poochi


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

Cute doggie. Be careful with that choke collar.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

Ok. Here are my pits. And the kitten and cat that beat them up and ran them off the porch. It is all in the raising. They do have a tendency to be dominant, but so do labs, chows, chihuahuas, most dogs out there. I would trust my pits with anyone. (unless you try to hit or hurt anyone)

The only two times I have ever seen my pits act aggressive are when a drunken man came at my step mother and when a black lab attempted to atack kme while I was walking the dogs. My Great Dane is the same way. If my dogs act aggressive all I have to do is yell stop and they stop. It doesn't mean they like you, but they will just come sit in front of me to be sure you're not going to hurt anyone.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

So cute!!! I love the kitt-ay in the last pic


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

As the parent of a small child, I have no trust for the breed itself. I do understand that it is a Prejudice type comment regarding a specific breed but in this area there have been too many attacks. I also understand that the dogs in question were allowed to roam freely, some in pack type formations and had poor owners. The fact of the matter is, if I see a pit bull, no matter how friendly it may be, my child is not to go near it. That's my rule.

As for banning, I don't know. I wish there were some way to ensure that a dog is properly cared for and trained by a responsible owner, but there is no way to do that... In my county there is a dangerous dog registry but really... what does that help?


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Amba1027 said:


> Cute doggie. Be careful with that choke collar.


 
he doesnt wear it anymore. we only had it on him to walk him for about a week cuz the collar we had he outgrew and then ate lol


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## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

Lol ok good. Sorry I was watching It's Me Or The Dog the other day and she was talking about choke collars collapsing a dogs wind pipe.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Lonestar22 said:


> I would like to know everyones opinion on the breed. Specifically whether or not they should be banned. IMO I do not think they should be banned. But I do think that there should be certain requirements you have to take to own one. Because of their history, I think that in order to own a pit bull you should have to obtain a liscense, take training classes, have your dog registered and microchipped. This would make sure (well at least make it harder) that people who do not have the responsibility to raise and train their dog appropiatley can not own one. Even if all of this happened there are still going to be "accidents". My sisters friend ( a vet tech) had a pit she rescued when it was a puppy. the dog lived with her and her other pets for years. Then one day the dog snapped. She came home and the dog had killed every single animal in the house. For no know reason. Thne there's my best friends dogs. They are absolute sweethearts and I love them, that being said, I will not bring my dog (who i take everywhere) to their house. To much of a risk.


You know what, I couldn't agree more with your response. They really are a different breed of dog, just because of their natural instinct. You would see different instincts with different breeds of horses to.
If they had what you suggested, I think it would help prevent a lot of problems and accidents. Unfortunate because those dogs only reflect the lack of proper care and management they receive. Those poor animals are pretty innocent.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

*My thoughts.*

_On the note of banning the breed..

__







_​_ 
But as them being trusted, just you can't. Some breeds are bred back from the aggressive factor, or just horrid temperament. So if you have momma dog, and daddy dog, who are both sweeties, but on daddy dog's side, there was a aggressive pit.. Well.. one of daddy dog's pups may turn out that way. 
_


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't believe any breed should be banned and it is very unfortunate that particular breeds have to get such a bad reputation due to the ignorance and cruelty of humans but isn't that the way it is with all things? We tend to take something natural and beautiful and sweet and just pervert it nearly to the point that it isn't recognized. And it is always the fighting pits or the aggressive pits or the killer pits that get the publicity and so people that don't know anything about them automatically assume that they are all like that. I personally don't like pits, has nothing to do with their temperment or "dangerousness" but I just don't like their appearance. I prefer dogs from the herding groups; collies and shepherds but that doesn't mean that I think all pits should be put down. I actually know several that are absolute dolls, I just don't want one.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't care about the breed - ANY dog who shows aggression and malice toward other animals (not just protective - actual malice) would be either miles away or euthanized before you could shake a stick at it. I have no use and no desire to spend time dealing with an aggressive animal. Because of that - I probably wouldn't buy a Pitt Bull. Yep, the reputation might be underserved for a lot of dogs, but reputations come about for a reason. My dad has owned Kelpies all his life, and not one has 'snapped' and acted aggresive. The capacity to do that it not something I would ever want to deal with.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ I'm with Smrobs - My favourite dogs are those from the herding groups, Kelpies and Border Collies.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Oh. This is a touchy touchy subject for me. I have done a ton of research on this. So I'll go to what I first learned. When the Pit Bull became a pit dog (first fighting rats then later dogs) they were bred to be small, trim and extremely loyal to humans. The reason they were bred small was because if someone busted the fight they had to get away with their dogs quickly. They needed dogs they could pick up and carry in case of an emergency and run with them. The reason they were bred to be loyal to humans is because nobody wanted a human aggressive dog in a ten by ten pit with them. Often human aggressive dogs were culled in an effort to curb this undesired trait. Another reason they didn't want human aggressive dogs is because they often switched ownership, a famous GR CH dog switched ownership an incredible 15 times in his life. 

Back then these dogs were not popular. In fact they weren't popular UNTIL the news started reporting about them. Then everyone suddenly wanted this dog that became a stature of coolness. Then everyone was breeding their actual American Pit Bull Terriers to their boxers, mastiffs and a ton of every other breed and pawning them off as Pit Bulls. Which by the way is a generic term. It means any short hair dogs with a large head and heavy muscling. This sometimes includes labs, boxer and American Bulldog mixes. An actual American Pit Bull Terrier still possesses the desired traits of the original breed. Which includes dog and animal aggression. 

Today, however, the breeds have turned into these 200 lb mentally unstable mutt or the more common PET Bull. Some of them are lovely dogs, but when you ignorantly line breed or bring in an outside breed you no longer have what you originally had. You now have something that is so far from the original it's almost unreal. Instead of being between 30 to 50 pounds, they are now 60 to 100 pounds. Instead of being short and narrow, they are now tall and wide. They are no longer the American Pit Bull Terrier. They are a status symbol.

Some of you posters are right, not everyone should own this breed. It's not for everyone. These dogs have been drug through a spot light they should have never been in. The only people who should own them are the ones who know what they are doing. Plain and simple. 

One last thing. If you pay close attention to some of the news reports you may see that a lot of times these dogs are not IN FACT PIT BULLS and/or they are mistreated and/or they are not neutered or spayed and/or they are not properly trained. But the news often fails to report these things, so good luck finding it.

Here's a website you may find some good info on:
A Historical View | National Canine Research Council

P.S. I have a 15 year old "Pit Bull". It's not about having them around your children it's about being a responsible pet owner and parent and not allowing your children alone with ANY dog. So many dog attacks could have been prevented if the owners were responsible. From the time your child is mobile you should work on the dog moving away when the child pressures it in any way. At the same time you should work on teaching your child how to behave around dogs. 

If you got through all this, I thank you (lol).


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Great post SHutUpJoe. Thanks for all the info on their breeding. Next time a see a Pit at my work I'm going to look closely to see if I can see any characteristics from other breeds.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

Here in Britain Pitbulls are technically a banned breed due to the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 which while doesn't ban them as such, it does ban the breeding so they should have all died out more or less around nowish. As it is the RSPCA are reporting there are now more Pitbulls in the country than there was when the legislation was brought in. If you look at the case of Dempsey the Pitbull the judge in that case said that this piece of legislation bore all the hallmarks of a rushed piece of legislation. The government went for the quick fix, it blamed the breed rather than addressing the idiot on the other end of the lead. Staffies are rapidly gaining a similar reputation to what the Pitbulls had and are now looking more Pittish than ever, it is very hard to find a true to form Staffie. I would have a Pitbull with children because I would never leave children alone with any dog, I don't have time for an aggressive or ill mannered dog so that dog would be trained to the highest standard I could get it to which would be quite high and I don't waste time with silly breed prejudices except when it comes to small breeds and most of that is based on personal experience. 

I have a Staffie x Ridgeback who was most likely bred for fighting due to the area he came but he was dumped at a few weeks old which we suspect was due to the fact he had such poor muscling in his legs it looked like he'd never be able to run. He now weighs well over 30kgs, is nothing but pure muscle, has jaws that could take your face off with no effort and is the soppiest dog alive. He's been battered by everything and has never retaliated. Small dogs like JRTs use him as a punching bag and my now deceased cat would chomp on his ears and nose and this massive dog just wagged his tail. We have brought him up to be good and he is one of the best trained dogs around, he's not even two years old and I have him working on just responding to hand signals and more advanced training. He's used to demonstrate at our training class and the trainer often tells his story as an example of it's the upbringing that counts. Mind you the way he embellishes it at this rate it's going to end up with my dog being pulled out of the ring at a few hours old! I firmly believe in blame the deed, not the breed and believe that all but a few of these aggressive dogs can safely blame their owners for failing them. I have an aunt who has an Elkhound who I will not cry over when he dies because he's an aggressive dog towards people and dogs, her idea of a good chat out on a walk is to stay six feet away and shout to the other person while her dog is stood on it's backlegs snarling and trying to attack the other dog. I've looked after a dog aggressive American Bulldog ***** who was being rehabilated after being rescued and she was coming on with her owner as she had someone she could trust and who could discipline her. Sadly she had a seizure and died but I took her to my training class one week when I was dogsitting her and I had her sat next to a dog she'd met before and hated and walked away from her with no fights, no growls, no eyeballing. 

Dogs are aggressive for a reason. Look at the recent spate of Pitbull attacks on children, every single one was trained to fight and was turned aggressive by the idiot who left them alone with a child and grandparent. Pitbull and so called dangerous dog attacks are reported because it's the flavour of the month, eventually it will turn to other breeds and they will suffer the same stigma. Where I live there are lots of dogs and only one of the Staffies are aggressive, the other aggressive dogs are usually small breeds. The two most dangerous are a Rottie, again owner who didn't discipline or train properly so she's unpredictable, and a Weinmaraner who was rescued and is truly insane. The friendliest dogs are mine, an English Bull terrier and the usual assortment of Labs.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

To show off my boy who loves everyone especially his little Westie girlfriend, she is the only dog he will drag me for and he is the only dog she'll try to drag her owner for. True love, they're so sweet.







You can his muscles and he's taller as well as stockier and more muscly now. He has the Staffie grin, the Staffie broadness and bulk but he's more like the Ridgeback in other respects. Best dog I've ever known but god does he fart!!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> I don't care about the breed - ANY dog who shows aggression and malice toward other animals (not just protective - actual malice) would be either miles away or euthanized before you could shake a stick at it.


I do not disagree with this thought. 







farmpony84 said:


> As the parent of a small child, I have no trust for the breed itself. I do understand that it is a Prejudice type comment regarding a specific breed but in this area there have been too many attacks. I also understand that the dogs in question were allowed to roam freely, some in pack type formations and had poor owners. The fact of the matter is, if I see a pit bull, no matter how friendly it may be, my child is not to go near it. That's my rule.


You remind me of so many parents I have encountered.
My pit used to go every where with me. And we frequently had families stop and pet her. I mean small kids laying on her and pulling her ears, etc.
Mothers making conversation that eventually got around to 'what type of dog is she' (this is after they marveled how wonderful she is with their kids) and I would answer them truthfully. The look of horror in their eyes when they realize their kid is laying on a pit bull. Many a mother literally snagged their kid (yanking it by the arm) away and ran off.

What the heck. Seconds before you were complimenting me on how great my dog is with kids and it is suddenly the devil reincarnated?

Of my three dogs my greyhound is the most likely to snap at a kid (certainly not my pit bull who thinks kids are wonderful). And you would be shocked at the number of parents who allow their kids to run up to a strange dog and latch around the dogs neck. Thankfully with lots of work my greyhound has learned to take it.


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## aranyc123 (Nov 22, 2009)

all dogs started from wild .they all used to kill for food etc. any dog can snap....my friends had a dog for yrs,then all of a sudden one night snapped and tore my friends arm a part. and this dog was not a pit..............


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I do not disagree with this thought.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am an animal person. I owned a siberian husky that was a wonderful dog but had a killing tendency (if it was small and furry, it was dead). After she killed the neighbors cat and then their dog (we lived in a townhouse at the time and in both instances their animals were in MY yard. My dog was on a leash when she got the cat and in my back yard when she got their dog - back yard is fenced, dog came through a broken board), I gave her to my brother who still has her (she is now 17 years old). She is an agressive dog, with age her agression has turned towards people as well, becuase we live in the country now (my brother is my neighbor) my brother is able to keep her. However since he's had her (I think she was 4 or 5 when I handed her over to him) he has had a few scary encounters. People don't ask "can I pet your dog", they just pet. 

So in all honosty, I should have said, my child does not pet ANY strange dog. I've taught him that way, children go up to dogs, shove their little faces at them and put their sticky hands in harms way without ever asking. That's dangerous. I have taught my son to treat all strange dogs as dangerous. There is a free roaming pit bull in my area and although he has not shown aggression towards us and lives with two toddlers, I still don't trust him because he has shown aggression towards my dogs on my property.

Anyhow, I know pits can be very sweet dogs, I don't think banning is the answer but I don't know how one could save that breed without educating the public and owners because it is the owners of the dogs that are to blame in most cases for the attacks and the deaths.

There was an older women killed here a while ago, she was walking her dog and both her and the dog were killed by pit bulls. When the police showed up at the owners door, the owner denied owning them! She knew they had killed and she was more concerned about her own safety then her neighbors.

There was a small child killed by her familys pit bull very recently, it is still under investigation because the story is a little off. I blame owners of the dogs when things happen.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

You never hear about the border collie that gets loose and kills someone because it doesn't happen. It's so far out of thier nature that it never crosses thier mind and thier bodies are not large enough or muscular enough to get it done in most cases. The same can be said of most dog breeds. Those that are naturally agressive toward other animals or people and are large enough to kill should be regarded with suspicion and handled with caution.


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## Crimsonhorse01 (Sep 8, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> You never hear about the border collie that gets loose and kills someone because it doesn't happen. It's so far out of thier nature that it never crosses thier mind and thier bodies are not large enough or muscular enough to get it done in most cases. The same can be said of most dog breeds. Those that are naturally agressive toward other animals or people and are large enough to kill should be regarded with suspicion and handled with caution.


I totally agree with this. AND the Chihuahua part in earlier posts. lol


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

chihuahaus will bight the skin right off your ankle!

There are certain dog breeds that have really great personalities....


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

In all reality children should never be left unsupervised with ANY dog. No matter the breed. I have a lab and in all honesty the chances of him biting somebody are so slim as to be almost non-existent. Not because of his breed as I know plenty of labs that are biters. It's just his personality. Heck he thinks he's a person and people don't bite :lol:. However, I would still never leave him alone with a child. Not even my 5 yr old niece whose been around dogs her entire life. Kids do things to dogs and they don't understand a dog's signals to back off. Of course most adults don't either. And if he DOES bite her? He's 70 lbs and right at face level. Even with his puny lab teeth, that's a lot of damage to a kid's face. So I err on the side of caution and PREVENT it from even being a possibilty.


I like Pits, I've known several very nice ones throughout my life. I still won't leave my dog alone with a pitbull. Not because they're bad dogs, but unfortunately the breeding has been skewed towards more aggression issues than originally intended. 

How many of you have looked in the mouth of a pit or other bully breed? A labs? German shepards? Some breeds will cause significantly more damage IF they ever do "attack" just because of the shape of their teeth, jaw, and muscles. 

I still don't think they should be banned though. Unfortunately there isn't a real way to regulate the breeding and ownership of these (or any) dogs without letting the government wrap itself even further into our lives. 

I'm always curious if anyone has any real world workable solution to this type of problem. Anyone? I definitely don't. :?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> I'm always curious if anyone has any real world workable solution to this type of problem. Anyone? I definitely don't. :?


Like so many problems in our society, the fix would require people to be responsible. And we know that is not going to happen.

And so you can laugh - My pit has tiny teeth. Compared to the greyhound her eye teeth are about half the size.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

LOL, haha that's great. Big "scary" pit with little itty bitty teeth! :lol::lol: I wonder if the greyhound makes fun of her? :lol:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

With all the lips and the tiny teeth you would never know she has teeth at all. 
Add she has been taught from a very young age that her teeth are not to contact human skin so you are even less likely to see them. But if you are squeaky toy beware. The squeaker must be chewed out and all stuffing must be extracted.

My pit is aging and the greyhound is young and the gh very much taunts the pit. The pit leads the pack (the dog portion) by being quiet and ignoring them. It is funny. She does not growl, she does not bite, she ignores and they still know she is in charge. (Well, we humans are in charge but she is top of the dog pecking order.)


And to comment on the leaving dogs alone with a pit. I personally do not think it is wise to leave any dogs alone unattended. I have known people who have come home to horrible scenes, with no pits in the household.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

farmpony84 said:


> As for banning, I don't know. I wish there were some way to ensure that a dog is properly cared for and trained by a responsible owner, but there is no way to do that.


Dogs, horses, children . . .


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Very true. I was going to add that I actually never leave my dog unattended with "strange" dogs. In reality the only dogs he is unattended with are his dad, aunt, and sister. My parent's bred him so they actually own those guys and they all live together in the garage when we're at work. They've been a family for longer than he's been alive. 

My dad is so anal about it that he doesn't let my friends bring their dogs over to our house. They always want to because we live out in the country so the dogs can run. My dad is adamantly (sp?) against it though because our dogs are a pack and as he says "A pack will do something a lone dog won't" he's right of course.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> You never hear about the border collie that gets loose and kills someone because it doesn't happen. It's so far out of thier nature that it never crosses thier mind and thier bodies are not large enough or muscular enough to get it done in most cases. The same can be said of most dog breeds. Those that are naturally agressive toward other animals or people and are large enough to kill should be regarded with suspicion and handled with caution.


Well, I have to argue on this one. The only two bites ever in my town since I have been around were a border collie and a black lab....lol. We had an aggressive chow that roamed around, but he was killed pretty quick. I have owned numerous "aggresive breeds" from pits and boxers to chows. There was a rottie across the street that got loose, luckily he had been well-trained and had just pulled up his stake because his owner had gone fishing without him. :lol:

Anyways, what I was trying to say is I know a border collie that will go out of his way to attack...lol. Dusty is the meanest sucker I have ever seen, and if he were my dog he would have been put down after the first girl he bit. I also have a border collie who I would never think about leaving alone with a child. I think that the biggest thing is we need responsible owners and parents. NO child should be running up and tackling a dog, putting their face to the dog's, or otherwise bothering dogs. (especially strange ones)

That is how we got my female pit. My uncle had gotten her from a man whose wife had died leaving his two children and the dog. He couldn't keep working with her and taking proper care of the children, so he gave her up to someone he knew could handle pits. She was accidentally let out of a back room by one of the younger grandchildren at the gathering. My younger step-brother who was 3 and had never been around dogs, ran up to her and tackled her. She rolled over and let him wrestle all over her. Before that my step-mother was completely terrified of pits. 

It ALL depends on the raising of EVERY dog. I have known mean dogs of almost every breed, and I have met wonderful dogs of most. I will say that most people should not own a dog AT ALL, and there are many that I would say shouldn't own a dog over about 5 pounds because they just can't handle them. I can take my 2 pits and great dane for a walk, hold all the leads in one hand and not worry. They will not fight, pull, or attempt to attack dogs, cats, squirrels, etc. All I have to do is tell them leave it. People do not come up to me unless they are invited, and if I see children ahead I have all the dogs sit to be sure the children aren't going to do anything stupid. My dogs are VERY wel trained because they are LARGE dogs, and if any one of them attacked they could kill. I can't imagine what my great dane could do to someone if she wanted to. 

Another danger is pack mentality. ALL my dogs understand that I am the leader. There is no question, and if there is they don't leave the house until it is resolved. I will not have any dangerous dog out. We had a blue heeler put down for biting the vet. We just have no need for any dangerous dog when there are so many good ones needing homes.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Very true. I was going to add that I actually never leave my dog unattended with "strange" dogs. In reality the only dogs he is unattended with are his dad, aunt, and sister. My parent's bred him so they actually own those guys and they all live together in the garage when we're at work. They've been a family for longer than he's been alive.
> 
> My dad is so anal about it that he doesn't let my friends bring their dogs over to our house. They always want to because we live out in the country so the dogs can run. My dad is adamantly (sp?) against it though because our dogs are a pack and as he says "A pack will do something a lone dog won't" he's right of course.


That is so right. My dogs are only left alone with other dogs from our house, and we still monitor attitudes to decide whether to do that. Supervised I would trust my dogs with most, but unsupervised I don't care about breed. I have watched a chihuahua attack my pit....although it was funny due to size difference and my dog just walking away, had that been a big dog it could have been bad.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Freaking small dogs!! Seriously, just ridiculous sometime


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I don't follow your arguement. I didn't mean to imply that border collies are less apt to bite but they are less capable of seriously injuring or killing an adult. If a border collie bites it might call for a few stitches but it is not uncommon for a pitbull to bite hard enough and often enough when it attacks that the attackee needs reconstructive surgery. I don't think pitbull attacks are more prevelent than other breeds, just more severe.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> I don't follow your arguement. I didn't mean to imply that border collies are less apt to bite but they are less capable of seriously injuring or killing an adult. If a border collie bites it might call for a few stitches but it is not uncommon for a pitbull to bite hard enough and often enough when it attacks that the attackee needs reconstructive surgery. I don't think pitbull attacks are more prevelent than other breeds, just more severe.


My dad has a plastic surgeon friend that says if it weren't for collies and labs he wouldn't have a practice. They are less likely to kill, but they are more likely to bite in the face and cause massive facial reconstruction because people see them as less likely to bite adn more likely to be child friendly. 

I will agree that pits are more likely to kill if they truly attack, especially in packs. I also think that there are other breeds (herding especially) who actually hurt children more often because people assume they will make good family pets. 

Goldens, labs, collies, border collies, heelers, etc. are not very good for small children in many cases becuase they are bred to nip or grab. I have seen many kids with scars on their face, nose reconstruction, cheek reconstruction, etc from those types of dogs. 

I don't think you and I are disaggreeing so much as I am pointing out that there are other dogs considered less dangerous who I would consider just as dangerous if not more so to small children. I find that pits and other so called "aggressive breeds" are less benevolent to adults, but seem less likely to bite a running child to herd it.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I was fortunate enough that I have had dogs around my whole life. We began breeding and training border collies when I was about 6 or 7 but we had a couple of heelers and an Aus. Shepherd or 2 before then. We keep all of our dogs except one chained up in the barn, for their own safety and because we have woke up in the morning with 100 head of the neighbors cattle in the front yard before LOL. They have bitten people in the past and are still willing but it is not out of aggression. They are very protective of their territory and every bite that has happened is someone who tried to enter the barn without one of my family with them. However, no bite was ever much more than just a couple of puncture wounds that required no stitches.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Freaking small dogs!! Seriously, just ridiculous sometime


I know. The funniest thing ever was watching my pit take the small dog she grew up with and just gently holding its head in her mouth for about 5 seconds to make it quit biting her. She never broke the skin or made it yelp, but she made it calm down before letting it go...lol. My great dane does that to my pits...lol. Or she holds them down with both paws so that they can't argue with her. :lol:


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Freaking small dogs!! Seriously, just ridiculous sometime


 
so so true. first time i took my big pit over to my parents to introduce them we were in the back yard and my sisters JRT attacked Zeus and omg it was funny to watch but he actually was shaking him and wouldnt let go, Zeus, my pit just looked at me with this "mommy help me" face it was adorable. i'm just glad he's well trained and has no agression towards other animals. he has never been agressive only protective over his little brother (my black lab x) or me and my fiance and our house of course but thats it. hes only ever given warning growls to strangers who have gotten too close to our car or too close to me when we went on walks when we still lived in the city.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

smrobs said:


> I was fortunate enough that I have had dogs around my whole life. We began breeding and training border collies when I was about 6 or 7 but we had a couple of heelers and an Aus. Shepherd or 2 before then. We keep all of our dogs except one chained up in the barn, for their own safety and because we have woke up in the morning with 100 head of the neighbors cattle in the front yard before LOL. They have bitten people in the past and are still willing but it is not out of aggression. They are very protective of their territory and every bite that has happened is someone who tried to enter the barn without one of my family with them. However, no bite was ever much more than just a couple of puncture wounds that required no stitches.


You have nicer dogs than the one up the road from me. If you happened to come in (even with his owner) and he was having a bad day he might bite. He gave at least three people serious stitches in their face from taking a running leap at them. He would get started a good ways off to really get you in the face. He never acted like that towards me, but I would not trust him for one second.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Sounds like my aunt's german shepard. He's about 100-115 pounds and extremely dog aggressive. Has attacked 2 yellow labs, although he is now fine with my cousin's two dogs who live with them. If he's in the car and dogs are out around it he will flip out.

He has bitten 2 or 3 family members including myself, but never really hard, just barely breaking the skin if anything. All bites were unprovoked, to be honest its like he gets excited and a little switch in his head turns off/on. He's also growled at several other family members. He gets walked about 2x a year, otherwise he is in the house or let out a several times in the fenced in back yard to go pee. I stop over to let him out everyday and while he is always happy to see me I never fully trust him. He's just too **** big and has shown that he is willing to bite.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Sounds like my aunt's german shepard. He's about 100-115 pounds and extremely dog aggressive. Has attacked 2 yellow labs, although he is now fine with my cousin's two dogs who live with them. If he's in the car and dogs are out around it he will flip out.
> 
> He has bitten 2 or 3 family members including myself, but never really hard, just barely breaking the skin if anything. All bites were unprovoked, to be honest its like he gets excited and a little switch in his head turns off/on. He's also growled at several other family members. He gets walked about 2x a year, otherwise he is in the house or let out a several times in the fenced in back yard to go pee. I stop over to let him out everyday and while he is always happy to see me I never fully trust him. He's just too **** big and has shown that he is willing to bite.


 
well this dogs agression could stem from the fact that he does not get adequate exercise. just bc u let a dog out to pee and go be in the yard is not enough esp for big working dogs like pits or german shepherds, they were bred for a purpose and that is how their mind works. they like to have something to do and if they sit inside all day and do not get attention or exercise most dogs turn to be agressive, ive seen this i dont know how many times and it shows up on the show "its me or the dog" all the time. if he had more exercise he prob would b less likely to bite and attack other people/animals bc he would have less pent up energy.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Nope not this guy, although it definitely doesn't help the problem. Believe me I've gone over this a million times with my aunt and cousin. I've helped as much as they will let me and I'm stupid (or stubborn) enough to keep trying. Frankly I'm amazed the dog doesn't have more vices.

He was actually given to my aunt due to his aggression. In his previous home he was well exercised, fed, and trained, but was still very aggressive towards other dogs. He was supposed to be used for some sort of trials or police work, but I can't remember what the heck it was. Something that requires a dog to be very physically fit, extremely obedient, and very even-tempered.

Honestly if you didn't know him you wouldn't realize that he gets out so rarely. He isn't "scary" unless you know his past. The people bites have happened over a 3-4 year period. If this was just linked to lack of exercise he would have bitten lots more (he's around people all the time).


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

I reckon some people get aggressive dogs because they can say look at how hard I have etc but I think it's much harder putting the work in to prevent things like this. My aunt and I are prime examples, I have put in loads and loads of training into my large dog and have a fantastic dog as a result who isn't even 2 and is being used to demonstrate at the training class. He was used this week to demonstrate and it was his first night back after a few months break, trainer said it was like he'd never been away. Whereas my aunt has an Elkhound she puts no effort in to as a result it's a dog that I would rather shoot than go within a mile of. She likes to say how hard it is looking after him but if she'd put the groundwork in when she got him and had established herself as being in charge. Now she got him when he was older and was already on the route to becoming dangerous but at that point he was sortable however now short of someone like Cesar Milan he will never be reformed. He's had my sister by the face, gone for my grandad, my cousin and several others. He tried it with my Indy who just cowered. He was lucky because if Indy had been the sort to fight back then he would have been dead. It boils down to training and upbringing.


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## irydehorses4lyfe (Sep 8, 2009)

Alright. From my standpoint. I personally don't like any breed that has scared me in the past; Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Boxers, Pitt Bulls, Chihuahua's mainly. They all have a vicious bite and snarl. Now I'm not saying all of them are like that. However when you've been on the wrong side of the fence with all of those types of breeds you do tend to err on the side of caution when you have a chance to meet one again. Now if I had a really good friend with one of those breeds, and I trusted them a lot, I might consider taking a chance and getting to know the animal. But for the most part I don't like those breeds. To be honest though, I would rather have a Pit Bull than a Chihuahua. Lesser of two evils.
I own a 12 year old Chihuahua. Want to know how many times I have been bitten by him? Over 13 times. All those times, were on my hands or feet and drew blood. I have tooth marked scars all over my hands from the little spawn of the devil. He was supposed to be my dog too, instead, he turned on pretty much everyone, no one knew what he was going to do, we still don't know when he'll decide to bite. Heck, until 2 years old he was a docile, sweet lap dog who loved to play and socialize with other animals and be around me and my family. Over half those times he bit went to down to the bone on my fingers. I have a reason to be standoffish about the breed.

Some people may disagree with me on this but here goes. I don't think all the dogs who are aggressive are trained to be that way or learned to be that way. Some naturally have aggressive temperaments. The owner(s) can't always be blamed for the animals actions.


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

irydehorses4lyfe said:


> Some people may disagree with me on this but here goes. I don't think all the dogs who are aggressive are trained to be that way or learned to be that way. Some naturally have aggressive temperaments. The owner(s) can't always be blamed for the animals actions.


the problem ive seen here though is if they know theyre animal is like this the owners need to be more responsible about it and if ur not then they need to get rid of the animal. i know of tons of people who take their known aggressive dogs to the dog park who always fight with other peoples dogs and bring them back..... that their is not the dogs fault but the owner....


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## irydehorses4lyfe (Sep 8, 2009)

FoxyRoxy1507 said:


> the problem ive seen here though is if they know theyre animal is like this the owners need to be more responsible about it and if ur not then they need to get rid of the animal. i know of tons of people who take their known aggressive dogs to the dog park who always fight with other peoples dogs and bring them back..... that their is not the dogs fault but the owner....


I agree 100% with you on that. I think if people know their animal could be aggressive or is aggressive, they need to take the precautions to make sure no one is put into danger, and know how to handle the animal and have disciplinary actions and train the animal to potentially reduce the aggression, although not all the time it works. Either way, if someone has a potentially aggressive animal, they need to be responsible about it.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

I wish I could go round with muzzles. Next to all of the little dogs would be muzzled!! I agree with you it's not always the owner but most of the time it is which is why I think breed specific legislation is a stupid idea as it doesn't address the actual problem.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

irydehorses4lyfe said:


> Some naturally have aggressive temperaments. The owner(s) can't always be blamed for the animals actions.


Incorrect assumption. 

If you have a dog and you know it has an aggressive temperament, then it's ALWAYS your fault if the animal attacks another creature or human.

If you're unable to have the aggression trained out of the dog, then you're responsible for keeping it away from other living things.

My Dane ***** is female dog aggressive. I'm aware of this so she never has the opportunity to be around other female dogs.

If you can't contain your aggressive animal, then it either needs to be euthed or given to someone who _can_ keep it contained. 

Regardless, if the dog gets out and attacks someone or another animal, that is _definitely_ the owner's fault.

Try arguing your opinion in a court of law. See how far it gets you, especially if someone got injured or their child or pet was killed.


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## irydehorses4lyfe (Sep 8, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Incorrect assumption.
> 
> If you have a dog and you know it has an aggressive temperament, then it's ALWAYS your fault if the animal attacks another creature or human.
> 
> ...


What I meant by that was. which I clarified in a later post, was that if you know you have an aggressive dog, you should be responsible in making sure it doesn't attack anyone, or create problems, and if it does, the owner needs to take responsibility for it.
Trust me, I have a full blown aggressive male Chihuahua. We can't play stupid and blame the dog, cause too many things HAVE happened under our roof with just our family members with him to know this. He's aggressive and destructive, yet my mom loves him, so we have to 'deal' with him. I hate that dog to pieces, but we've all learned how to live around him so things don't happen. And he's learned(a little) as for what he can and cannot get away with.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I've been around working dogs all my life. Mostly Kelpies but a few BC as well. If any one of them was people aggresive they would be gone. We have five at the moment and not one of them would dream of biting. 

They are worked by strangers at shearing time - They need to be safe for people to handle. There is no way we would keep a dog who would bite. All our dogs are fed by friends when we are away, and they have a 4yo girl who goes up with mum to feed. She pats them through the bars of the pens. She has played with all of them - They are a bit boisterous for her, but have never, never acted aggresive. People who own herding dogs without educating themselves on the instinct and how to manage it are just asking for an issue.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

FoxyRoxy1507 said:


> the problem ive seen here though is if they know theyre animal is like this the owners need to be more responsible about it and if ur not then they need to get rid of the animal. i know of tons of people who take their known aggressive dogs to the dog park who always fight with other peoples dogs and bring them back..... that their is not the dogs fault but the owner....


See, I guess this is where I feel the responsible part comes in. We had raised a boxer from a 4 week old puppy. We bottle fed him and everything. Well, when he turned 8 he started having some blood vessels popping in his eyes. I noticed that when this happened he would also get agressive with strangers. Since we had had him for so long we deicided we were ok as long as he never showed aggression towaards those of us that raised and owned him....turned out he had a brain tumor that is pretty common in boxers. It would randomly swell, and when he finally attempted to bight me we made the decision to have him euthanized. The vet came out with the euthanasia, and my dad stood there with a pistol in case it was a bad day. 

He was sweet in his last moments, but as a responsible owner we felt it was dangerous to keep him alive. This is where my family differs from many others. If a dog growls, snaps, or bites at anyone without being provoked it is euthanized ASAP. We do not want the liability. We begin training from the day we get a dog, and if we feel it is not a safe animal then it will be disposed of. (My mother who owns our nippy border collie doesn't go by this, but my father and I do) I love my Great Dane, but if she ever attacked otehr people or dogs with no provocation I would have her euthanized. She is just too big and possibly dangerous to allow. I love all my dogs, but they all have the same rule. I get most of them as puppies, and if they show aggression I will not give them away. They will be euthanized 100% of the time.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

IRyde- I agree with you. There are people out there who are producing puppies without even thinking about mother and father's temperaments. One way to curb this is by spaying and neutering. An un-altered dog is more likely to exhibit dominance. Even more so when they are attached to a chain or in a fenced yard all the time. 

Kevinshorses- With my children I wouldn't own a herding dog. They are too nippy. My cousin owns one and when we go out to his place the dog tries to herd the kids. He's actually punctured a hole in a child's leg before. I'd also like to note that there is a few cases in which lap dogs have actually done some major damage. Take the pomeranian that killed an infant. 

The only safe dog is an altered, well trained dog, with a responsible owner. 

Just for the sake of it. How did this:








Turn into this?


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

And here is a little quiz for you guys : )
Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> Kevinshorses- With my children I wouldn't own a herding dog. *They are too nippy*. My cousin owns one and when we go out to his place the dog tries to herd the kids. He's actually punctured a hole in a child's leg before. I'd also like to note that there is a few cases in which lap dogs have actually done some major damage. Take the pomeranian that killed an infant.


See, this is the kind of stereotype people are trying to avoid with Pitts - We have 5 kelpies (herding dogs similar to Border Collies) and they are all perfectly safe around the toddler who has grown up on the farm. They can clearly differentiate between the child - not to herd, and the sheep - to herd. They have never shown any inclination to nip or bite, and only one of them has attempted to herd her.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

That's your dogs.

For one, I tend to acquire adult dogs. Ones that already have bad habits. Your dogs may know not to nip at children but there are a lot of herding bred dogs that do not know not to nip at children. I was saying I wouldn't want one with my kids because of that. But then again (no matter how much I love the breed) I wouldn't acquire another Bully bred dog with my children either. 

I have fostered a lot of dogs and have seen first hand what breed does what. So I'm not talking totally inexperienced. I know it's on a dog to dog basis. But overall if I were to adopt an older dog it wouldn't be a herding breed. It's not stereo-typing for me, it's knowing my children and not knowing the dog I would get. I'm not saying herding dogs are bad. My first dog was a Border Collie and I loved her very much. They are great dogs. 

I hate to say this but if we get another dog it'll be a well bred Golden Retriever (even though I'm not a huge fan).

P.S. It's Pit not Pitt. Sorry pet peeve of mine.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ My bad on the spelling - never owned one or even met one, so not really sure on it :]

All but one of our dogs were bought as adults - Albeit young ones - From breeders or trainers, all partly trained. One will nip sheep in the pen but won't pay a jot of attention to a kid. 

It's fair enough, and definately a personal choice - I was just pointing out that a lot of people on this thread are emphasising that you can't generalise pits as aggressive - you can't generalise herding breeds as nippy, either. you CAN generalise them as herding inclined though, lol. Nippy is actually a bad trait for many who work dogs - Dad used to muzzle the nippy dog as it caused damage to stock and stressed them out too much.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Oooo Oooo, I've got a good generalization.  From a breed that I have very personal experience with and have been around literally thousands.

Labs, excuse me, AMERICAN Labs are pretty much all hyper until they're about 3 yrs old. You can literally time the calm downs starting around 6 mnths old. Every 6 mnths they make a marked change in calmness. They are an extremely high energy breed that REQUIRES daily exercise of at least 1 hr per day when they are young. LOL, at the vet we used to say "This ones got DLS" (dumb lab syndrome). Now labs are extremely smart. When you engage their brains. If they're all hyped up, they're idiots (at least if they're not trained). I love em though and will probably always own one. 

Sorry, I really couldn't help it  I was reading all the generalization talk and realized that I could apply that to "my" breed with at least some accuracy, if I was to be completely honest with myself about the breed. All of our breeds have some flaws or tendencies that aren't all that attractive to everyone else. But to the true breed lover that's what makes the breed so great.

Alright that was way off topic (I have this problem you see). :lol:


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## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Oooo Oooo, I've got a good generalization.  From a breed that I have very personal experience with and have been around literally thousands.
> 
> Labs, excuse me, AMERICAN Labs are pretty much all hyper until they're about 3 yrs old. You can literally time the calm downs starting around 6 mnths old. Every 6 mnths they make a marked change in calmness. They are an extremely high energy breed that REQUIRES daily exercise of at least 1 hr per day when they are young. LOL, at the vet we used to say "This ones got DLS" (dumb lab syndrome). Now labs are extremely smart. When you engage their brains. If they're all hyped up, they're idiots (at least if they're not trained). I love em though and will probably always own one.
> 
> ...



I LOVE this! I tell people you have to love labs just cuz theyre so dumb. Even when theyre trained, theyre just so goofy.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

Absolutely not. No breed should be banned based on breed alone, it is usually the owner who made the mistake. People who buy a working, larger dogs-ie german shepherd, husky, pit bull- should know how to train these dogs and provide adequate exercise. If they cannot fulfill these requirements, they should not own a working type dog (of course owners of smaller dogs should know this too, but a dominant rottweiler can be much more dangerous to the public than a dominant yorkie). Any dog with good training and adequate exercise can be gentle and wonderful to be around.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Ohh.. I understand. I think if you don't alter a breed with more dominant tendencies early enough they have a very high probability of being dog and prey aggressive. This includes children. It's hard for some breeds of dogs to see children as ranking higher in their "pack". If you know what I mean. Think of it in a dogs POV. If it were a pack of dogs and the dominant dog wanted to establish himself over another dog what do they do? 

They bite and fight and what not. Dogs are sturdier than children but dogs don't understand that. That's why I spend a lot of time with every dog in my house making sure they know where they rank. Everyone just needs to understand that.....


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Oooo Oooo, I've got a good generalization.  From a breed that I have very personal experience with and have been around literally thousands.
> 
> Labs, excuse me, AMERICAN Labs are pretty much all hyper until they're about 3 yrs old. You can literally time the calm downs starting around 6 mnths old. Every 6 mnths they make a marked change in calmness. They are an extremely high energy breed that REQUIRES daily exercise of at least 1 hr per day when they are young. LOL, at the vet we used to say "This ones got DLS" (dumb lab syndrome). Now labs are extremely smart. When you engage their brains. If they're all hyped up, they're idiots (at least if they're not trained). I love em though and will probably always own one.
> 
> ...


 
HAHA my old black lab wasn't fully trained until he was at least 5. All the sudden he calmed down. (at least compared to his former self) He was still more hyper than any other lab I met. That was why I had him. He had dragged his last owner around and almost dislocated some shoulders. He just needed a buddy to learn to walk right...lol


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Tigerstripes I think you are being generous with the 3yo thing with the American lab lines. I say it is closer to 5yo. 

In all the years teaching obedience classes some of the most annoying dogs to have in class were the labs and the goldens. 

Too many people just buy them from any old breeder - heck, they are labs so they must be good family dogs, right?

There sure is a huge difference in the temperament and brain of a well bred (even American lines) lab and your average and back yard breeder lab.

My farrier has an English style lab. Love it. He has been mellow from day 1. Smart. Personable. Great dog.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

Tigerstripes I also think you're being generous, it applies to British Labs as well. Not met a sane one yet. Met one who was going grey and it still bounced round like a puppy.

I think with any dog breed you should do your research, mae sure you socialise them and get them trained to the highest level of obedience you can but especially with the large breeds and the bull breeds.


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## RegalCharm (Jul 24, 2008)

I have read all the posts up to this point.

Now I also should point that Some Homeowners Insurance
Co. WILL NOT insure you if you have a dog that is on the
Aggressive Breed Lists.

And if you unknowningly get a dog that is on the list and later have a lawsuit your insurance co. will say you violated the insurance policy 
and drop you like a hot potato. and you will be on your own if you
get sued.

So read your insurance policys or call your insurance agent
to find out what the company policy is on certain breeds of dogs.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

RegalCharm- You are correct. If you do get a Pit Bull or a dog that resembles one you want to check your state, city, county and township for regulations on them. Some have banned them. Ohio has very strict regulations against them.

We are required to have insurance, they have to be in a 10X10 shelter with a top and when walked they must wear a muzzle. It is very hard for people who want to do the right thing with them to own them. But the people who don't care let their dogs run free. Frustrating.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

LOL, well maybe I should rephrase my generalization (and here I was trying to make sure I wasn't being overly "mean"). Labs (apparently English as well as American) will remain significantly more hyper than other breeds into the middle of their lives. 

Personally of the labs I've encountered most were calm by 3... unless "provoked" of course. By that I mean feeding them, playing with them, walking them, meeting strangers, and/or looking at them.  

I put the English Lab thing in there because a. I haven't met very many (one was calm the other was nutss) and b. I've been told on many occaisions how "superior" the tempermant (energy level) of the English Lab is.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

If English Labs are meant to be calmer I dread to think what American Labs are like, lol. There's a pair round me who both must be over 15 and they still go out for a good walk despite one being so stiff he looks like he's limping and the other one who is even older lags behind a bit but she stills love going out for a walk. They're still as cheeky as young Labs with the dog thinking he can stick his head in your pocket without you noticing.


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## xAddictionx (Oct 30, 2009)

Pitbulls should definitely _not_ be banned. 
If they are trained right, socialized from puppy onto adults, they are the best dogs ever. You have to know the breed and how to teach/ train them before you ever even consider getting one. 
When I was 12 we adopted a pitbull from the humane society.. my parents took the time to train him right and he was the best dog! He was seriously my most favorite dog that we've ever had. When we brought him home, we had adopted another dog too a german shepherd cross and we had a black lab at home. He became instant friends with the black lab and they pretty much never left each others side. He never once tried to growl, bite, nip at any of us. 
Now my mom works at a no kill humane society. So the only way an animal will be euthanized is if they are very ill, or if they are very human aggressive and training doesn't work. 
There are currently four pitbulls or pitbull crosses at the shelter and one American Staffordshire Terrier .. 
Two of the pitbulls are purebred, with papers. They were raised together, and brought in when the owner was losing his home. These two are literally the most well trained dogs at the shelter. They know voice commands as well as hand signals, they know just about every trick in the book.. they were raised well and trained well. They are well socialized, they get along with kids, cats and other dogs. Because of their breed, the shelter staff is going to only adopt them to people who have experience with pitbulls.. they will do a home check to make sure that the home is suitable and they will check in on the new homes after they are there for a certain period of time. The other dogs have the same precautions. All of these bully breeds have been out to petco adoptathons, to dog classes and they are exercised every day. 
The only way you get aggressive dogs is by them having stupid owners that aren't educated on the breed. 

Pictures 
Taz, the male pitbull! 

























Saber, the female pitbull!
















Doing tricks! 








On her way to petco


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i personally love pit bulls ! any breed of dog can become aggressive or hard to handle if not trained or treated properly. i see a lot of pit bulls at work & they are easier to handle than many of the labs and other popular breeds. i am actually really turned off to labs because of how many obnoxious/jumping/pushing/barking ones ive met at my job.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

AlabamaHorseMom said:


> I take it you have never owned or known one of these amazing dogs.





AlabamaHorseMom said:


> The character, and love of life in these dogs is amazing. They are NOT aggressive, unless trained that way. They want nothing more than to lay up on the couch with you and sleep the day away.
> I dont own a pit, but I do own an Ol' Southern White American Bulldog who is closely related to the pit type breed. I would trust my dog with my life.
> Please dont judge the breed because of the acts of PEOPLE.




I agree with this lady's remarks. I owned for 14 years an old fashioned Staffordshire Bull Terrier, which can be closely related to the Pit Bull type of dog. Duke was exactly as described. He was arguably the best canine friend I have ever enjoyed the companionship of. He was boisterous, strong, athletic and stubbornly persistent. Throughout his life I had to shelter him from his undeserved public image. Eventually he died from symptoms of old age. I miss him.

The fundamental problem lies with the human owners, who bring out in the dog the undesirable traits which can lie dormant in their psyche in order to satisfy an obscene lust for watching dogs fight each other.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

churumbeque said:


> So your friend has a pit bull that killed every animal and they didn't put it down? That does not make sense. She must not have had much regard for her other animals or others sefety.


 
I did NOT say wheter or not she put it down. I did NOT say anything regarding what happen AFTER the incedent so please READ THOURGHLY before ACCUSING someone of "not having regard for her other animals." You also didn't read that it was my sisters friend, a lady she worked with, at a VET CLINIC. You must not have read that I said the animals got along fine with her other dogs until ONE DAY it SNAPPED and killed every animal in the house. Please, before saying something so rude, make sure you have your facts straight.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

Addiction!!! I want them!!! I volunteer at my local shelter when I have breaks from school, and most of the times the pits are the most fun. They just want to love and wrestle if they have been well-trained. Personally I prefer the "aggressive breeds", and I have no problem with going and searching shelters to find some. I love all dogs, but I know that some breeds don't get taken in as often. For that reason I go in looking for dogs that fit into some category that people like less to work with and show off when people come in. That includes black dogs, labs, pits, rotties, chows, dobermans, and even full blooded german shepards. (for some reson people are scared of them)

I have even made friends with a wolf hybrid. Although I would not own one, I have met a male wolf hybrid who was wonderful to work with. At the vets office he was one of the most well-behaved dogs there. I thought he was just husky, but while I was petting him the lady told me "now don't get scared or step away, but he is a wolf hybrid" I figured he wasn't biting me and I was petting him so why be worried now...lol


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

SmoothTrails said:


> Addiction!!! I want them!!! I volunteer at my local shelter when I have breaks from school, and most of the times the pits are the most fun. They just want to love and wrestle if they have been well-trained. Personally I prefer the "aggressive breeds", and I have no problem with going and searching shelters to find some. I love all dogs, but I know that some breeds don't get taken in as often. For that reason I go in looking for dogs that fit into some category that people like less to work with and show off when people come in. That includes black dogs, labs, pits, rotties, chows, dobermans, and even full blooded german shepards. (for some reson people are scared of them)
> 
> I have even made friends with a wolf hybrid. Although I would not own one, I have met a male wolf hybrid who was wonderful to work with. At the vets office he was one of the most well-behaved dogs there. I thought he was just husky, but while I was petting him the lady told me "now don't get scared or step away, but he is a wolf hybrid" I figured he wasn't biting me and I was petting him so why be worried now...lol


 
ive owned a few wolf hybrids and i love them. the last one i have now is currently at my parents house bc my mom wanted to keep at least one dog at home when i moved bc our other dog died. she looks just like a mini white wolf she is Timberwolf x chow/lab mix she wasnt planned it was an accident when my friends Timberwolf got out and welll ya know... but she is the cutest most adorable dog ever i love her dearly and she is 13yrs old and still acts like a pup. most people arent scared of her jsut cuz shes fluffy and small until they look in her eyes they are amber colored. but eventually i will get another


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Addiction - my Duke, looked just like your Taz.

Duke could carry a 6 foot x 6 inch diameter fence post in his mouth by balancing it. Then he would run off with it in his mouth. His favourite 'worry bead' was a pickup tyre suspended on a branch of tree by a chain. He would spend an hour of so slobbering over it, then he would chew it. For a dog of medium size - after all there are bigger and heavier breeds - he was immensely strong in the jaw and the neck.

A more faithful hound you could not find. Boisterous-yes, strong-yes, 
athletic- yes, destructive of tyres and lengths of timber-yes. But aggressive towards people, emphatically no!.

But I was mindful that he would protect me if he thought I needed protection
and even in friendly play I was careful never to shout or wave my hands about - just in case he felt I needed help. But this trait came with the genes - in days gone by he was the gamekeeper's guard dog; he was the shepherd of the bull. I have lots of anecdotes to relate of happy tmes spent together.
My four legged, tail wagging chewer hurt no one over his 14 years with me.

Certainly not a dog for every household especially those with inadequate facilities or an unsuitabl lifestyle but if you could take such a creature into your 
life, this breed of dog would bring faithful companionship, sunshine and smiles.

B G


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## heyycutter (Sep 26, 2009)

i like pitbulls. i have alot come into the petstore i work at regulary and they are very sweet dogs. i think it totally depends on the way they are raised and trained, however, like others have said, shouldnt be around children because pits do like to be dominant.


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## SmoothTrails (Oct 1, 2009)

My little brindle male pit is my dad's travel companion. The red female one gets annoyed and makes a pigeon noise, so she only goes if she has to...lol. There is actually someone at school with me that has a big red pit as his service dog. He always goes to sleep in class and distracts me with his adorable doggy dreams and twitching. I think that pits are wonderful animals for an assertive (not aggressive) owner with plenty of time and room to work with them. 

While there is a law in my town that they have to be on a 3' chain (not leash), muzzled, etc to be walked, the cops never say anything because they normally stop to play with my dogs when we're out walking. The law was more put in place so that they could take the dogs from the people fighting them and making them aggressive. 

The only dog I have ever even had accused of being aggressive the judge laughed the guy out of court. The poor dog was a little coyote mix something that would pee on himself if a man spoke to him. This dog was nuetered and didn't even know to hike his leg, but the man tried to say that he had jumped out of his pen, come to his house, killed his male dog, tried to breed his female, and bit him when he tried to stop him, then that he jumped back into the fence since he was there when we got home. The cop that came to inspect the dog got peed on for moving too quickly because poor scout just rolled over and peed everywhere....lol. They all laughed about our big mean aggressive dog that would pee on you til you died.


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## Krystle F (Jan 3, 2010)

*My boyfriend and I have owned pitt bulls and I love the breed I have never had any turn on my and they are such great dogs, but they are kinda like a one person dog, I have noticed just seeing my friends have them and they get moved from home to home to home, they get pretty tempermental ( I think I spelled that wrong ) I do not believe in putting dogs on a chain expecally pitt bulls they become really mean, but that is just my experience with pitts. All mine have been lovers and got along with other dogs and people. I went to the animal shelter on Monday and 95% of all the dogs in there were Pitt Bulls it was really sad  I wish I could have taken them all home  There is a show on I think animal planet I am not sure but this lady raises Pitts and has ex-prision guys work for here and she tells you all about pitts and it is a really cool show*


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## FoxyRoxy1507 (Jul 15, 2008)

Krystle F said:


> *There is a show on I think animal planet I am not sure but this lady raises Pitts and has ex-prision guys work for here and she tells you all about pitts and it is a really cool show*


the show is called Pitbulls and Parolees. my hubby and i watch that show sometimes it is really good


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Pit Bulls do not need to be banned, but the Humans who own them/handle them who are uneducated, should be. And any backyard breeder.


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

Pitt Bulls and Parolees is an excellent show. I love how they represent the breed. They are truthful in the sense that they say that a Pitt is not for the amateur owner and needs someone who understands the breed. They also say that it is best if the Pitt is an only dog. But in general, they really are very sweet dogs. 

My close friend has an in-tact male Pitt named "Fiddy" ( like Fifty, but not pronounced like that) that is the weeniest dog you will ever meet! He's so sweet! 

Pitt Bull breeders definitely need to be restricted. But so does every other backyard breeder in the country. It's so sad, going through the humane society seeing so many great dogs that have been thrown out like trash. I've adopted all 4 of my dogs from the humane society as well as several cats. 

Here is a pic of my brindle Mastiff/Pitt, Holly. She's a 3 year old that we got from the local humane society (scroll down to my post): http://www.horseforum.com/farm/lets-see-your-farm-dogs-41832/page4/


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## wishingforahorse (Jan 15, 2010)

Pit bulls scare me...I know that it is all about how the owner raises and takes care of one, but I would never want to own the breed. I've met a friendly pit bull before and I've met some nasty ones. Like when my mom went to get laundry mat quarters when the people opened the door a pit mix ran out and bit her in several places. The bites weren't bad but she is still bruised from it. 

I personally like german shepherds =)


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Wishing for a horse, In a way your post makes the point that we lovers of the Pit Bull type of dog, are trying to make. The hysteria provoked by an example of a pit bull running amoke and severly hurting a child or indeed any human is justified in the context of that dog. A ferocious dog kept deliberately for aggression or worse, dog fighting, is unacceptable in modern civilised society. But it is highly likely that the dog was deliberately trained by a human to be vicious.
Because the errant dog happens to be of the pit bull type is probably because of the powerful conformation of the dog. It is a form of racism but as applied to equines rather than humans. Paint one dog bad, all dogs of that breed are bad.

As for German Shepherds it is common for this breed to be used by law enforcement officers around the world. They can readily be trained to attack any human on command by the handler. I have never seen a Pit Bull type be used for this purpose yet in many ways they would make good police dogs.

I personally am wary of German SHepherds partly because I know of two aggressive dogs kept locally by a woman who does not have full control over them. Her dogs tried to savage my terrier whom I had picked up off the ground to protect her. There was me, restraining my Rottweiler in one hand and carrying my terrier in the other. But neither of those Shepherds would back off. Eventually the woman's son pulled them off.
But I still don't blame the breed - I blame the owner. 

This is a difficult subject. Some horses bite and kick but we don't condem all horses because of a few rogues to be found here and there.

B G


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