# Laying a Friesian down?



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

To what purpose?


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Have you ever "laid a horse down" before? And why do you want to do it?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Your original post appears to be a statement (vs a question) with a question mark at the end.

Is there an actual question?


All I know is I am not sure I would take advice from anyone who kneels down next to their horse in a tutorial video.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

Why???


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## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

I never asked for you guys to say why.... I just want my question answered and thats WHY I made this post *eyeroll*


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Why does the breed matter?


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## Dusty1228 (Dec 2, 2010)

First off, I LOVE Eric Bravo and everything I've tried to do from his books/videos has worked amazingly well.

HOWEVER, no one understands what your question is. There was no question, really. Much like AB said, it appears to be a statement with a question mark at the end. There is nothing there for us to answer. Help us out a little and we can give you more advise.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

SugarPlumLove said:


> I never asked for you guys to say why.... I just want my question answered and thats WHY I made this post *eyeroll*


We have a right to ask WHY you want to do it, because it's not something that's necessary when training. If you only want to do it because you think it's 'cool', that's a really _stupid_ reason.

:roll: right back at you.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Well my question still stands. Have you ever done this before? Or is someone going to be with you that has used this method?


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

The main reason why horses are laid down is because they are being dangerous. A lot of trainers do it to earn a horses respect quickly it is the most volunerable position for a horse. It helps with trust issues. 

You need someone to do it with you but like everyone why are you wanting to do this? This method here should be used as a last resort. I have never done this personally but I have a friend that did do it with one of her horses she was training. You have to know what you are doing or you will get hurt or you can even hurt the horse done incorrectly.


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## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

Yes I have done this before. What I was asking is would a friesian be to big?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I see nothing about the size of the horse being a question in the original thread. Just saying.

Why does the size of the horse matter? 

If you are experienced at this technique and you think this will some how benefit this horse, why does the horse being larger or smaller matter?


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Exactly. Why does it matter how big the horse is? 

I don't agree with laying a horse down unless it's a last resort. There is a lot of potential for damage, both mental and physical. 

What is the horse doing that makes this necessary? Or is this a normal step in the training procedure you follow? Not trying to attack you, but I'm genuinely curious.


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## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

It's just how i work


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Would you mind explaining why this is a normal part of your training procedure? I've only used this method once with a dangerous horse, we used it as a last option...


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

SugarPlum, people are just trying to understand. You are acting very troll-like for a person who has been around. Your one word (or a couple of word) answers that really do not answer any of the questions and are not helping you get an answer to your original question.


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

Any breed of horse, any size and any color can be taught to do anything really. It all just a matter of finding the right way to do it for the horse. With laying down I don't really believe you need to have a good reason for it. The horse doesn't have to be dangerous to need to lay down. I love to challenge my horse and work on anything I can think of, and not everything is from the saddle. Teaching a horse to lay down and be comfortable laying down with you around is something I find to be very helpful and is an added safety precaution. My horse knows how to lay down, though I didn't teach him the way above, it took me well over a year to teach it to him but now I thank god that I did. Over the past five years I have had a few accidents in which Jake fell (once over jump, got caught in barbwire, tripped and fell) in which he laid down and stayed perfectly still until I was able to crawl away from him, get him untangled and check him over to make sure he was okay and waited until I asked him to get up. It has saved both of us a lot of possible situations where he could have hurt me in struggling. 

Back to OP, I have found with teaching the lay down there are over a hundred different ways to do it and there is one way to do it to teach to your horse (safely) as each horse is different. If your going to do it be patient and Take your time, do not force it.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

There's a difference between training a horse to lay down on command and "laying a horse down." The former is great and can be a very useful tool. The latter is generally used to teach a horse to be submissive or gain "trust" etc. Think the movie "Horse Whisperer."


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## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

Thankyou Horsesdontlie


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

If you have to ask (about size), the answer is no because you don't know what you're doing. Laying down a horse improperly is not only stupid, it's ridiculously dangerous.


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## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> If you have to ask (about size), the answer is no because you don't know what you're doing. Laying down a horse improperly is not only stupid, it's ridiculously dangerous.


I do know what I'm doing thank you very much


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## kolson (Mar 9, 2010)

Hello SugarPlumLove!
I also want to teach my horse to lay down, but still haven't gotten there yet. I wouldn't attempt this untill your horse has complete trust and confidence in you. Horses can only go 6 ways, up, down, right, left, forwards, backwards. Can you get your horse to do all of those? If you can then your probably ready to try this, but if not I wouldn't try to push your horses trust or confidence. It will come with time, but do it in the horses time. 
Hope this helps! 
Level 4 parelli student, Kolson


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

SugarPlumLove said:


> I do know what I'm doing thank you very much


Then answer the questions I asked....

Why would the size of the horse matter, etc.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Are you trying to teach the horse to lay down as a trick or because you have a dangerous horse?


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

SugarPlumLove said:


> I do know what I'm doing thank you very much


Apparently not if you think size matters.


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## kolson (Mar 9, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> We have a right to ask WHY you want to do it, because it's not something that's necessary when training. If you only want to do it because you think it's 'cool', that's a really _stupid_ reason.
> 
> :roll: right back at you.


That is not very polite, I can see your cuorosity for wondering why, but if you don't know her reason why, then you have no right to criticize. Just because you think there is no purpose for a laying a horse down, does not mean there isn't one. For me the case is advancing my horsemanship skills, I want to better myself. It might not be getting me any closer to winning a ribbon, belt buckle or money, but (with the right technique and approach) it will get me closer to my horses heart. That's all I want.
I hope this clears it up for you, you still might not fully understand our reason, but atleast you now know why. I believe she has that same reason, or something close to it. 
I didn't mean to be rude in this post, but tried to be straight forward. If it came across as being rude, I'm sorry, its hard to really explain what you mean via typing, you know? Thanks for your time!
kolson


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

kolson said:


> That is not very polite, I can see your cuorosity for wondering why, but if you don't know her reason why, then you have no right to criticize. Just because you think there is no purpose for a laying a horse down, does not mean there isn't one. For me the case is advancing my horsemanship skills, I want to better myself. It might not be getting me any closer to winning a ribbon, belt buckle or money, but (with the right technique and approach) it will get me closer to my horses heart. That's all I want.


I asked a simple, polite question and got a rude response in return. If you have a problem with someone being 'not polite', I suggest you take it up with the OP, not me. 

There are only TWO reasons to ever lay down a horse. One is because the animal is dangerous and needs a Come to Jesus meeting, and the second is because someone thinks it's 'cool'.

You're not going to bond better with your animal by forcing it to lie down. If you believe that, then someone's been feeding you a load of tripe.

I don't need you to 'clear up' anything for me, thank you. I understand the concept of laying a horse down, and I say unless the animal's dangerous, there's no_ good _reason on the planet to do it.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

I am supremely puzzled as to why someone thinks that laying a horse down is going to make a majikal bond that nothing can break! Turn off the movies and get to work. 

OP, if your original post was an actual question and you are not a troll...then just Why? Why would you post a thread asking how to do it if you already know? 

If you just wanted to talk about laying your horse down, I am sure you would have gotten a better reception.


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

I think its cool that I can stop my horse from a canter without reins. Does that mean its stupid or unnecessary? I think when you start limiting your horse to things that are normal and purely functional. Teaching a horse to lay down is just another thing to do. Heck I think riding is cool. I don't believe that cool should be a bad option. 

Should anyone and everyone teach a horse to lay down, heck no. It can be dangerous and stupid if you don't know what your doing. Do I suggest anyone else do it? No. Do I have a better bond just because I laid my horse down. No. I have a better bond because I worked through training on an idea. I worked on giving into pressure and making him think about working and trying to understand what I want. Its the training aspect I want, not just having the horse on the ground. 

A good reason is that it keeps a horse calm in case of an emergency. If a horse has its legs caught, if its hurt, if the rider is hurt and the horse struggling would hurt the rider more. All good reason to have a horse that knows how to stay on the ground calmly without kicking or thrashing around.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

kolson said:


> That is not very polite,



SR was responding to this, which is certainly not very polite either. 



SugarPlumLove said:


> I never asked for you guys to say why.... I just want my question answered and thats WHY I made this post *eyeroll*


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## kolson (Mar 9, 2010)

There are not only two reasons, there may be in your mind. Is it hard for you to believe someone would want a special relationship with their horse?  The beauty is, your right, you don't get a better bond with your horse if you force it down. Whoever said we were going to force our horse to lay down? I will not force my horse to lay down. But I do not want to fight about this. You have your beliefs and I have mine, this thread is not for fighting or critizing. Let us put this behind us,  no matter what we say to eachother nothing will change our beliefs.


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## equus717 (Aug 20, 2009)

Isn't that the same as teaching them to stand still. My horses are trained that if they get caught into something to stand still. They have all done this in times when they had stuff caught u around the feet. My mare got a haystring wrapped around her hoof and funny how she stopped and just stood there. Honestly though if a horse gets caught up in something it is way better for them to stand than to lay down because eventually they can die from their own weight slowly killing them.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kolson said:


> You have your beliefs and I have mine, this thread is not for fighting or critizing. Someone is asking for help, can't we put our advice in without conflict?


Then the person who is asking for help needs to ask the question and answer the questions being asked. My questions are simple. Why does size matter? (In other words, if you know what you are doing, why are you asking associated with size, what about the size makes a difference?)

The OP is being snarky to everyone (and ignoring me). If the OP really wanted answers to whatever the unknown question is the OP would help people be able to answer.


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

I agree completely with Horsesdontlie, but I wouldn't use his method. That's my personal opinion. There are a lot of ways to do it. I've never put a horse down using his method - too much work, lol. So, yes, your horse can be laid down, and no I wouldn't use his method.


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## jwells84 (Mar 29, 2011)

You dont have to "force" a horse to lye down. It comes with TRUST, the 1st couple of times you lie a horse down, he will be scared and he will react,but you just go with the flow, try to keep him calm,make the right choice the easiest.ex: as soon as he starts to lean back release the pressure, and so on. I lay down my horses i train for a purpose, wether it be they need a come to jesus meeting,or maybe because they aren't trusting me as much as they should. after they are down, and you are rubbing on them, they learn that you are not hurting them, then they can start to trust you better, and it also lets them know you are in charge,no matter what size person you are.(i get horses who i can almost tell are laughing at me when i come out to work them.. Im rather thin and not real tall. on a heavey day i weigh 130,so i have to demonstate sometimes to get my point across to the older horses who think they can push me around.... if it didn't work or got me or the horse injured i wouldn't do it.)
As far as the video goes i see several problems there is no "safety" pen, and that rope looks awful stiff... also that is not a green horse. 
I always use nice soft cotton ropes(as to not injure the horse) and make sure to be in some kind of pen. A horse can stil run really quickly even if a leg is tied up.. also green horses are unpredictable...when i lay a horse down(a green horse) i make sure it will accept a saddle and use the saddle to help me. and stay as far enough way that should he lunge toward me he wont get me. I use a long soft rope to help me as leverage to encourage him to lay down. As far as weight goes I do not think it matters except that you might want to be in a bigger pen for a larger horse.

I know of people with disabilities that it is crucial for their horses to know how to lay down, so that if they(the horse and rider) should fall the horse wont struggle to get up and injure the rider.
to the op: I hope I've helped you with your question
to everyone else: as like anything else, if not done properly it can be dangerous,or if you don't like to do it then don't do it. soo to each his own. i just thought i'd throw my 2cents in.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> There are only TWO reasons to ever lay down a horse. One is because the animal is dangerous and needs a Come to Jesus meeting, and the second is because someone thinks it's 'cool'.


In my defense, I actually did it because I'm a lard **** and I worried about what would happen if I fell off riding bareback on the trail and had no colossal rocks nearby. :lol: It's come surprisingly in handy! I'm not much in the habit of falling off, but it prevents spine compression of my friends who would have to boost me up otherwise when we stop for a pee break!


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## Horsesdontlie (Mar 11, 2011)

equus717 said:


> Isn't that the same as teaching them to stand still. My horses are trained that if they get caught into something to stand still. They have all done this in times when they had stuff caught u around the feet. My mare got a haystring wrapped around her hoof and funny how she stopped and just stood there. Honestly though if a horse gets caught up in something it is way better for them to stand than to lay down because eventually they can die from their own weight slowly killing them.


I meant if the horse was already on the ground. Not if making the horse lay down in a situation. Lol Like the horse fell because it got caught in something. Most horse would try repeatedly to get back up even if they can't. Often throwing themselves around and causing more and more damage and not letting anyone get near them to help. Even in a situation if the horse broke both front legs, they will run around on their broken legs if you'll let them. I would prefer to tell the horse to stay down untangle it, make sure everything is alright then let it get up. 

It would take a lot of time for a horse to die from laying down for too long. Having the horse hold still for enough time, to get it safe, on the ground isn't going to kill it. Have you seen how long some horses nap for in the sun? Lol I've known some to stay down for hours.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I don't have a problem TEACHING a horse to lie down on command, as I said it could be very handy. MM had a good example. :lol: 

I don't particularly agree with FORCING a horse to lie down, especially as a normal part of the training process. In some instances it could be a useful tool, but not for every horse. I think there are much better ways to earn a horses trust.


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## SugarPlumLove (Dec 27, 2009)

All I wanted is a simple no or yes answer and an explanation and all of a sudden I was asked why I want to do this and that I'm probably not experienced enough. How can you get experience without trying it? You can't just go and buy it at your local tackstore. you need hands on experience. I never said there wasn't going to be anyone there. I was only curious and there's nothing wrong with that and if your wondering I think it is "cool" and fun to do. not because I'm forcing my horse down but to show it it can trust me no matter what. If someone has a problem with this than so be it but you don't always have to voice the negatives. Remember what Thumper said(the rabbit off bambi)? He said if you don't got something nice to say don't say anything at all"


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

You're the one who immediately got defensive and rude when someone asked. You ARE aware that there are two TOTALLY different ways of getting a horse to lay down based on whether it's a trick or as a training technique for a dangerous horse right? Instead of pitching a fit and acting like everyone else is the problem, maybe try and consider people wanted more information so they COULD answer your question properly.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Life isn't a Disney movie Sugar.... 

If you haven't laid a horse down before I wouldn't recommend trying it... Especially after watching a video. If you want to learn how to do it correctly find a trainer who does it and ask to watch/help. Though most good trainers would only do that to a horse in a very special case.

If you want to TEACH your horse to lay down she/he will probably gain trust in you, but it's because you are working up to that point. You are training. Forced laying down is more of a breaking thing IMO.

There are good videos/books out there that can teach you how to TRAIN your horse to lay down on command. I would recommend you google some trick training for horses.


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## EquineLover (Jan 24, 2011)

I get the question. Like... would I be able to lay her down with this method?

That's a question... right?

---

Sorry, the video won't play on my laptop, but can I just ask... why would you want to lay a horse down?


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Horsesdontlie said:


> I think its cool that I can stop my horse from a canter without reins. Does that mean its stupid or unnecessary? I think when you start limiting your horse to things that are normal and purely functional. Teaching a horse to lay down is just another thing to do. Heck I think riding is cool. I don't believe that cool should be a bad option.


I think someone already said that. Nothing wrong to teach horse to lay down as a trick (as well as sit down, bow, hug, etc.). However it's very unclear if its a trick-training question or the OP wants to do it to "train" the horse (break, establish as a leader, etc.). I know the trainer in area who does it with EVERY horse he's "training". Not like a last resort, but to force it into submission. Plain wrong IMHO.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

Your set on doing this, no need for me to continue the debate...

But I wouldn't trust anyones training techniques that choose to train or show off surrounded by trailers and trucks that the horse could thrash into.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Here's my opinion on teaching any trick. I never teach anything I wouldn't want my horse to do on the side of a busy road.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

:lol: Nice.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

natisha said:


> Here's my opinion on teaching any trick. I never teach anything I wouldn't want my horse to do on the side of a busy road.


Or any other inconvenient time. Perfect advice!


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Actually.... I'd rather have my horse lie down then bolt in front of a semi when he's scared... Maybe I should teach Soda to lie down when he's scared??????


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Actually.... I'd rather have my horse lie down then bolt in front of a semi when he's scared... Maybe I should teach Soda to lie down when he's scared??????


I have a new Arabian that is easily frightened, if I taught her that she would never be upright.:lol:


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

:lol: Bahahahahaha, it'd be like a fainting goat. 

Bang! Thump... "Stupid horse."


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

OP, I'm sorry for your horse. If you really want your horse to lay down, don't "lay him down" using a method of force. This is what you do with PROBLEM HORSES who are uncontrollable and should always be a last resort. _Teaching_ a horse to lay down is a completely different thing, and completely acceptable. For your horse's sake, stop getting defensive and just answer what is asked.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> :lol: Bahahahahaha, it'd be like a fainting goat.
> 
> Bang! Thump... "Stupid horse."


:lol: perfect analogy


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

if your going to do it that way, i was told with the little bit of string you use to hold the foot up then you should have the end of it in a secure loop rather than a loop that will tighten under pressure around the leg


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I personally feel it is idiotic to force a horse down to build a bond. I am not a natural horse person, but some things are just common sense. Force me down and I will come back fighting harder.

I hope for the OPs sake that this is not the personality of her horse, but I think it will not be as easy as she thinks and will turn into a hot mess fast.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Well either way, the OP can take our advice or she can learn the hard way. Some people just need the horse to teach them a lesson.

As they say, you can only run up behind so many strange horses before one of them caves your skull in.

Trust me, when more experienced people get involved in these debates, it only makes you look more arrogant AND ignorant the more you continue to defy them. (Or ignore them, in your case, because it's my understanding you're too proud to admit you've been proven wrong) Honestly, the people on this forum just want to help you. No need to be defensive about it. Trust me. Been there, done that.

Answer the questions, or admit you're wrong.


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## Juna (Apr 4, 2010)

Golly, let's not get hostile. All too often these threads turn into incredibly heated, incredibly _stupid_ debates and I have to say it gets pretty tiring. I can't click into a thread anymore without insults flying every which a way at multiple members, usually the OP. I understand this is the internet, but I just wish it was a bit more civil 'round here. The OP is going to do whatever she wants regardless, so why beat the subject in EVERY thread like this to death? :roll:

And with that said, I think that laying a horse down as a part of "training" or "taming" is pretty silly. I DO think that teaching a horse to lay down on command and bow and things like that is perfectly normal, logical and fine to do. Provided your horse enjoys it and is trained patiently and kindly. Forcing shouldn't be a part of it at all.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Giggle giggle.

Oh, be still my beating heart....


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Juna said:


> And with that said, I think that laying a horse down as a part of "training" or "taming" is pretty silly. I DO think that teaching a horse to lay down on command and bow and things like that is perfectly normal, logical and fine to do. Provided your horse enjoys it and is trained patiently and kindly. Forcing shouldn't be a part of it at all.


Well that sucks, that you can pass your opinion and we cannot. Because by passing your opinion here, you could be considered as doing the same thing of beating it to death. 

People ask for an opinion on a very active horse forum and there are a lot of us with opinions.


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## Juna (Apr 4, 2010)

AlexS said:


> Well that sucks, that you can pass your opinion and we cannot. Because by passing your opinion here, you could be considered as doing the same thing of beating it to death.
> 
> People ask for an opinion on a very active horse forum and there are a lot of us with opinions.


I didn't say everyone couldn't pass their opinions. It's just _the way_ the opinions get passed that gets annoying. So many threads are harsh and very critical for pages and pages. Yes, some OP's are pains, yes some are silly and don't know what they are doing....but that doesn't mean we have to be so rough and insulting to them. JMHO. I guess I just need to stop clicking into threads like this.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

In my 61 years of being involved with horses never once have I "laid a horse down or trained one to lay down". I just never ever had reason to do it. Case in point #1) One morning after a few hours ride I cooled my mare out then turned her out. When I came into the house I looked out a window and saw she had laid down to roll and got all four of her legs stuck straight up into the panel pen rails. Casted big time she was. I rushed out and slowed as I got closer to her, talking to her in a calm voice the entire time. My Candy laid there like a rock and I climbed over her barrel into the area between her front legs and back legs to free up her four legs. All that trust with never having taught her to lay down by any means.

Another case in point on training: I bought a POA mare from a trainer and his partner for my grandkids. The trainer told me he had trained the mare to do a reining horse spin. Thankfully he told me that, 'cause I was riding her one day and unknowingly found the reining horse spin cue by accident. I would have dreaded her going into that spin with one of my grand kids on her.


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

Juna said:


> I didn't say everyone couldn't pass their opinions. It's just _the way_ the opinions get passed that gets annoying. So many threads are harsh and very critical for pages and pages. Yes, some OP's are pains, yes some are silly and don't know what they are doing....but that doesn't mean we have to be so rough and insulting to them. JMHO. I guess I just need to stop clicking into threads like this.


The Horse Forum Team has modified at least one post in this thread and contacted its author about posting similarly in the future.

I think the issues in this thread are a result of the OP's initial ambiguity about something arguably dangerous, http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/laying-friesian-down-86190/#post1029210, followed by a flippant/hostile response to members' efforts to get clarification, http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/laying-friesian-down-86190/#post1029241, followed by another post that called her experience and the safety/appropriateness of this endeavor further into question, http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/laying-friesian-down-86190/page2/#post1029261, followed by what appears to be another flippant response, http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/laying-friesian-down-86190/page2/#post1029294, etc.

In the community's defense, the content and tone of an OP's (Original Poster's) posts go a long way toward defining the tone of a thread.

That said, if anyone feels additional replies are necessary, please be sure they are somehow constructive and do not merely repeat what has already been said.


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## usandpets (Jan 1, 2011)

I saw this thread yesterday, right before I had to go to work. So forgive me for going back and commenting on an "old" post, lol.



Alwaysbehind said:


> All I know is I am not sure I would take advice from anyone who kneels down next to their horse in a tutorial video.


 It may have not been a great decision to do in a tutorial video, but it shows the trust he has in his horse. Also you can see that the horse is standing without being tied to anything, so he has respect and trust from the horse. Even though the horse resisted, the horse did not fight against it, so the horse was willing to do what was asked. Granted I wouldn't be doing it in such a confined space like he is.

To the OP: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are asking if this method would work in laying the horse down? Yes, but I would not do this with a green horse that you have not built up trust between you and the horse.

I have done something similar to that method with my horses. I don't see a problem with doing it, to teach the horse to lay down. If you do choose to do it, be prepared for the horse to resist and fight doing it, especially if you don't have the horses trust.


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