# is he worth standing at stud?



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Need a conformation shot, but for the moment, I'm going to have to say "not stallion quality."


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

The picture is kind of stretched since I'm on my phone so I'm limited on what I can see, but to me he looks downhill and post legged. Something about him, he just looks....weak? I'm not sure, I really need more photos.

Definiely a pretty boy, but I'd ask for more conformation shots.

Has he had any success in the show ring?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Well one question is, what is his breeding?


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

Sunny said:


> The picture is kind of stretched since I'm on my phone so I'm limited on what I can see, but to me he looks downhill and post legged. Something about him, he just looks....weak? I'm not sure, I really need more photos.
> 
> Definiely a pretty boy, but I'd ask for more conformation shots.
> 
> ...


 hes doing NBHA barrels..and he has 62 points in halter and points in western pleasure but has been limited because a mare.. fratured my shoulder


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I have to agree, the photos posted unfortunately don't really speak for him being an outstanding stud. He's probably not the most unfortunate sire a horse can have, but at first glance he doesn't look like anything spectacular.

I agree conformation photos would have to be seen, or at least some performance photos that actually show some performance instead of a kid sitting on him and a bad jumping photo.


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

Chromed Out Dually Paint his breeding


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)




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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

He looks like a really nice horse, but I'd vote to geld. I love his color, and looks pretty versitale, but there are enough nice studs out there. I think he would make a phenomenal gelding.

And to get a conformation critique, we need a side profile picture of your horse standing square.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

He is cute, but personally I would geld him. Nothing about him screams "make more of me!" Great gelding, though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

As the others have said, he is not outstanding enough to be a stallion in my opinion. He is adequate, he is not a conformational train wreck by any means. He is well put together. However, he is not amazing either. He doesn't have anything to give that the next stallion doesn't have too.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Agreed with the others. He is a beautiful horse and looks really versatile, but he's not jaw-dropping. I wouldn't stand him at stud.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Nice, average looking horse. Not stallion quality.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Ask yourself this question. If he was a plane old sorrel would you even be asking? If all you had was his pedigree would you be asking? He has some interesting crosses.

You say he has points in halter and Wp but you did not say from where? This will play a big role in things also.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

Geld. He is just an average horse. And his breeding is decent but nothing to brag of. He doesn't look to amazing at anything either. Cut him and save yourself the trouble of a stud
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HollyJane (Feb 11, 2011)

I can tell you that if you stand him at stud, you will have interest. If someone wants to breed a mare to him, then he is worth standing. I know some people think that stallions have to be absolutely perfect (Everyone's definition of perfect is different), but I know many people who would pay for a foal out of this stallion. 

It's not a question of whether or not you should stand him - it's a question of whether or not people would breed their mares to him. I say you should advertise him and see what the outcome is - if he gathers little interest, geld him - if he's somewhat of a hit, then keep him a stallion. He will throw nice foals - he's not going to "trash up" the horse market with his offspring, that's for sure - he will contribute.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

The question really is would those people breed a GOOD mare to him if he was a solid? If the answer is yes then keep him a stallion. However if the answer is no and only breed b/c of his color then geld him. The fact is that there are a lot of stallions out there who are colored that that is their ONLY claim to fame. If they where a bay or sorrel they would have no interest and would be geldings.


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## SeeingSpots (May 29, 2011)

HollyJane said:


> I can tell you that if you stand him at stud, you will have interest. If someone wants to breed a mare to him, then he is worth standing. I know some people think that stallions have to be absolutely perfect (Everyone's definition of perfect is different), but I know many people who would pay for a foal out of this stallion.
> 
> It's not a question of whether or not you should stand him - it's a question of whether or not people would breed their mares to him. I say you should advertise him and see what the outcome is - if he gathers little interest, geld him - if he's somewhat of a hit, then keep him a stallion. He will throw nice foals - he's not going to "trash up" the horse market with his offspring, that's for sure - he will contribute.


I would have to agree, I know and work at stables that have studs, stud farms, and breeding businesses that would breed their nice good mares to this stud. 

He is stunning! I would be willing to breed my mares to him. He is not average and everyone's opinions on a good stud is different. Advertise him and see how he does!

He is gorgeous! 

SS


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I have to agree with everyone else. He's a nice looking horse and I truly do like him quite a lot. However, I am of a pretty darn strict mind when it comes to producing more horses with the market like it is. Anything that is less than superb in _every_ respect (ability, conformation, bloodlines, temperament, etc) doesn't need to be re-producing at this point. It's all about economics; because the supply is so saturated, there isn't enough of a demand to keep the market going. The only way to fix the problem is to increase the quality and decrease the quantity of the supply until the market can level back out.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

HollyJane said:


> It's not a question of whether or not you should stand him - it's a question of whether or not people would breed their mares to him



I'm sorry but I really can't agree with that view.

I'm old and cynical I know but I don't have faith in mare owners to always choose the best studs for their mare, there are people who would take their mare to anything, if the price was right, or because the stud is right next door.

Because a stallion has the _potential _to sire 100's of babies, they really should be outstanding, something that will enhance their off spring.


I like this boy, as a gelding, and I strongly believe an entire horse who does not have stallion potential should be gelded, gives them a better quality of life.

As I say, just my very personal view on the subject


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Just because some people might breed to him isn't a good reason - you have to look at what market. Some people would breed their fugly mares to him for his color - not a good reason nor good perpetuation of the stallion's progeny.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HollyJane (Feb 11, 2011)

A common misconception. The horse market is the way it is because horse slaughter was banned. Breeding horses keeps the market afloat; breeding horses of different quality increases the value of those exceptional horses. If all horses that were foaled were exceptional, then the horse market would plummet and crash. It is the average and below average horses that keep the market alive.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The horse market was this way long before the slaughterhouses closed...in fact, there is still a considerable market for killer horses, save now they are all being shipped across the border and prices aren't as "good" (not like they were great before). It's the economy, far more than the slaughter ban, that has had such drastic effects on the market. Couple that with an over-breeding surplus of subpar (and untrained horses), and THAT is where the issue stems from. _Good_ horses, more often than not, do not go to kill. Mediocre and poor horses, on the other hand, are at far greater risk.


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## crimson88 (Aug 29, 2009)

I personaly like him, if I had the oppertunity to breed to him and I had the right mare I would, probably. If you want to stand him, than do it, he is your horse and you can decide what you want to do with him. There really isn't anything serisouly wrong with him and he appears very versitile. He has a bit of a show record to his merit, too. I won't tell you what you should do with your horse, or dis on him, ultimately it should be up to you.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

SeeingSpots said:


> I would have to agree, I know and work at stables that have studs, stud farms, and breeding businesses that would breed their nice good mares to this stud.
> 
> He is stunning! I would be willing to breed my mares to him. He is not average and everyone's opinions on a good stud is different. Advertise him and see how he does!
> 
> ...


I am not sure what you think you see in him. Yes he is nice. Would make a nice gelding and maybe it is just the pictures but I do not see anything there that wows me. His pedigree does not scream stallion. He was not bred to be a stallion prospect. I would still be very interested to see where his points are from.

I have a colt standing in my barn right now that was bred to be a stallion prospect. He has the pedigree the conformation and is looking to have the look that people look for in a stallion. All wrapped up in a puuurrrrtttttty color. However what he is would not change if he was a sorrel. I will also tell you this right here and right now. If he does not prove and when I say prove I am talking at the Open Level on NRHA he will be gelded. Even with everything he has going for him. There are just too many stallions out there.

Now if there where a lot better pictures of him and he was very well proven at a higher level that might change things a bit.


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## HollyJane (Feb 11, 2011)

Breed him! I'd buy his foals!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I would also be interested in seeing what/where his points were gained.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

HollyJane said:


> A common misconception. The horse market is the way it is because horse slaughter was banned. Breeding horses keeps the market afloat; breeding horses of different quality increases the value of those exceptional horses. If all horses that were foaled were exceptional, then the horse market would plummet and crash. It is the average and below average horses that keep the market alive.



Boy you have never been around high level horses have you? Lower end horses there or not would not play any role in what a higher level horse will sell for. People looking to by a $50K+ horse are not going to look at $1K horses and people who will only pay $1K for a prospect will never look at a $50K horse nor could most of them afford them. These 2 or really 4-5 different markets have little to nothing to with each other. 

Also people paying good money are not going to go and look for a horse at a kill auction or a low end auction. As you are not going to find what you want and need in that setting. The average horse market is in the dump however the market in which I breed for is growing and expanding and prices are up.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Pepper- Lovin 'R' Paints Horses For Sale- Blue RoanTobiano Filly

Here's someone pushing the color on their filly...pity it's not wrapping the best of packages....


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## Kitkat (Jun 9, 2010)

I think you should ask yourself. 

"If he was just a plain ole sorrel would I still want to breed him?"

My guess would be no.

But he is very cute.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

My responses in bold...



HollyJane said:


> A common misconception. The horse market is the way it is because horse slaughter was banned.
> 
> *Incomplete truth. The horse market is the way it is because many of the slaughter houses were closed AND people continue to breed mediocre horses with the knowledge that there is no market for them. Even the killers who ship to Mexico and Canada can't take them all.*
> 
> ...


Not every foal that is born of exceptional parents ends up exceptional itself. There is plenty of diversity in the offspring of fantastic pairings that we really don't need to be breeding anything and everything with re-productive organs, ignoring the quality of the breeding stock.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that the OP's horse isn't nice. He is and I really do like him. There is something about him that I am truly drawn to. BUT, looking at it subjectively, there are already thousands of horses out there exactly like him that don't have homes.


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## crimson88 (Aug 29, 2009)

bubba13 said:


> Pepper- Lovin 'R' Paints Horses For Sale- Blue RoanTobiano Filly
> 
> Here's someone pushing the color on their filly...pity it's not wrapping the best of packages....


Wow, such "rare" blue eyes! NOT, a great majority of young foals have that eye color.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Foal who will have blue eyes when they are older start out with light blue eyes. They do not change.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

I like him, wish you had a nice side shot of him so we can see his shoulder and neck better but he has a tremendous hip, is a nice size and if his points are earned in halter in APHA (I believe you said he has around 60) than he cant be too shabby or he wouldnt have earned the points. 
Standing and owning a stallion is a personal decision that only you can make. There is nothing about this horse that says DONT STAND him other than the opinions of a few people. You have already gotten the opinions of several judges who obviously like him. The peoples opinions will always be mixed, thats what makes the horse industry tick...different opinions, different needs, different disciplines and yes even different breeds. Best of luck with him no matter what decision you make. He is a real nice horse.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

This horse would make a fabulous gelding, unfortunately not a breeding stallion, he is very fine boned & looks immature. He is above average gelding quality. For a horse to be stud quality all his good points have to be GREAT points, & have a wow factor.


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

please keep in mind he will stay a stud for a while, mostly because i have hopes with his training he will get more muscled..i just wanted to know if in that time i should breed him, we have one mistake baby from him, a blue roan, but i just have hopes of using him as an all around horse. hoping to geld at about 7 and the points were gained in APHA shows.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Annnie31 said:


> I like him, wish you had a nice side shot of him so we can see his shoulder and neck better but he has a tremendous hip, is a nice size and if his points are earned in halter in APHA (I believe you said he has around 60) than he cant be too shabby or he wouldnt have earned the points.
> Standing and owning a stallion is a personal decision that only you can make. There is nothing about this horse that says DONT STAND him other than the opinions of a few people. You have already gotten the opinions of several judges who obviously like him. The peoples opinions will always be mixed, thats what makes the horse industry tick...different opinions, different needs, different disciplines and yes even different breeds. Best of luck with him no matter what decision you make. He is a real nice horse.



Where did you get that his point where ACTUALLY earned in APHA? APHA has programs where horses can earn points out side APHA. PAC I believe it is called. Again might be the pictures posted but I can not see him earning 60 true APHA points in halter. If he did we would be seeing him standing in a big barn for big money well big for halter horses. 60 breed points in hater is hard to earn.


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

nrhareiner said:


> Where did you get that his point where ACTUALLY earned in APHA? APHA has programs where horses can earn points out side APHA. PAC I believe it is called. Again might be the pictures posted but I can not see him earning 60 true APHA points in halter. If he did we would be seeing him standing in a big barn for big money well big for halter horses. 60 breed points in hater is hard to earn.


 well its outside of apha yes, but they go towards his papers? i don't honestly know how it works i'm use to barrel racing. mostly AQHA open shows APHA open shows and schooling shows


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dullylover said:


> hoping to geld at about 7


Just wondering why geld at 7?? I'm only being nosy so feel free to ignore me:wink:


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

Annnie31 said:


> I like him, wish you had a nice side shot of him so we can see his shoulder and neck better but he has a tremendous hip, is a nice size and if his points are earned in halter in APHA (I believe you said he has around 60) than he cant be too shabby or he wouldnt have earned the points.
> Standing and owning a stallion is a personal decision that only you can make. There is nothing about this horse that says DONT STAND him other than the opinions of a few people. You have already gotten the opinions of several judges who obviously like him. The peoples opinions will always be mixed, thats what makes the horse industry tick...different opinions, different needs, different disciplines and yes even different breeds. Best of luck with him no matter what decision you make. He is a real nice horse.


















are those any better?


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

He's not a bad looking guy and I have certainly seen worse being bred. 10 or 15 years ago when there was a market for sound but mediocre horses I would have said sure, he is worth breeding...he could produce some pretty decent get. But in today's market, which is already flooded with mediocre horses, it just isn't the time to breed them. Although you would be standing him rather than breeding him yourself, you would still be indirectly contributing to an already saturated market.

Just because someone would pay a small stud fee to breed to him is not sufficient reason to stand him. Some people are only interested in color, some don't have enough money to pay a stud fee from a really good stallion - there is almost always someone who will be willing to breed their mare(s) to any stud around, just as their are always people with studs that will stand them to any mare owner with a few scheckles in their pocket.

Times are just different today than they were years ago. What made sense then just doesn't make sense now. I am not a believer that a stallion has to be superlative to be bred, and I think a lot of people that take that attitude are unrealistic and pretentious, and many of them are clueless to boot. However, there are a handful of breeding basics, and one of those basics is to never breed into a saturated market...


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Just wondering why geld at 7?? I'm only being nosy so feel free to ignore me:wink:


 i was just guessing as he is only a 5yr im trying to wait tillhe muscles up a bit and hes being worked hard so its helping but i love the stallion look


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

Faceman said:


> He's not a bad looking guy and I have certainly seen worse being bred. 10 or 15 years ago when there was a market for sound but mediocre horses I would have said sure, he is worth breeding...he could produce some pretty decent get. But in today's market, which is already flooded with mediocre horses, it just isn't the time to breed them. Although you would be standing him rather than breeding him yourself, you would still be indirectly contributing to an already saturated market.
> 
> Just because someone would pay a small stud fee to breed to him is not sufficient reason to stand him. Some people are only interested in color, some don't have enough money to pay a stud fee from a really good stallion - there is almost always someone who will be willing to breed their mare(s) to any stud around, just as their are always people with studs that will stand them to any mare owner with a few scheckles in their pocket.
> 
> Times are just different today than they were years ago. What made sense then just doesn't make sense now. I am not a believer that a stallion has to be superlative to be bred, and I think a lot of people that take that attitude are unrealistic and pretentious, and many of them are clueless to boot. However, there are a handful of breeding basics, and one of those basics is to never breed into a saturated market...


 thank you and i understand about the horse market being bad. so i think i'll hold on to himas a stud and just not breed him.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

i was under the impression that a gelding can be just as well muscled as a stallion, what do you mean by the stallion look? you can put a gelding and a stallion side by side and tell someone to guess and you can't really tell the difference without looking for the dangly boy bits.


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

honestly i have 12 horses. 
1 chocolate palomino
4chestnuts 
1 smokey black
1 black
2 bay and whites
2 black and whites
1 blue roan 
and have the blue roan foal but she goes to a home when shes good to be away from momma


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

lilkitty90 said:


> i was under the impression that a gelding can be just as well muscled as a stallion, what do you mean by the stallion look? you can put a gelding and a stallion side by side and tell someone to guess and you can't really tell the difference without looking for the dangly boy bits.


 no but a stallion always gets that big thick neck to them


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

You say you are using him as a barrel horse. Is he consistently marking 1D times? If so where and in what venue? If you have the ability and place to keep a stallion and have the time and money to really really prove him out and market him well. Then give it a try. However you need to be really really picky on the mares he is breeding as I think he is going to need a good mare. However truthfully, if you are really into speed events and like to show. Geld him have fun with him. See what is winning I mean really winning at a high level and save your money and get a really really well bred stallion to stand.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

dullylover said:


> no but a stallion always gets that big thick neck to them



Thing is that is the last thing you want in a performance horse.


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

nrhareiner said:


> You say you are using him as a barrel horse. Is he consistently marking 1D times? If so where and in what venue? If you have the ability and place to keep a stallion and have the time and money to really really prove him out and market him well. Then give it a try. However you need to be really really picky on the mares he is breeding as I think he is going to need a good mare. However truthfully, if you are really into speed events and like to show. Geld him have fun with him. See what is winning I mean really winning at a high level and save your money and get a really really well bred stallion to stand.


 he runs a 2/1d depending if ur truly pushing him. and honestly thats a good idea i don't think keeping two studs would be that easy after a while.. its hard as it is.. if i posted pics of the other stud would you guys tell me if i should geld them both or which to keep a stud?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dullylover said:


> if i posted pics of the other stud would you guys tell me if i should geld them both or which to keep a stud?


:rofl: I can guarantee if you ask you will get feedback. I like the new pics you posted of your boy, still not as a stallion but as an awesome gelding.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_The new pictures you posted are still not really critique worthy. To get the best critique, he should be standing square...which should be easy for you to get since he is a halter horse...and have pictures taken from straight on the sides. Straight, no angles. Then do the same for the front and the rear, with the tail out of the way._

_Please see this thread for a more detailed explaination: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/important-using-critique-section-please-read-7080/_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Thick necks/jowels and heavyset muscles are not desirable in most performance horse settings. You don't want to have him lug around weight when you need speed/agility. Really, a poor reason to keep him a stud in my opinion.


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## ponyjocky (Apr 12, 2010)

those back legs. eek. cross him with a few Thoroughbreds and then geld him.


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## ponyjocky (Apr 12, 2010)

still better than most "studs" around me. he looks like a great horse.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

ponyjocky said:


> those back legs. eek. cross him with a few Thoroughbreds and then geld him.



:?: Huh? "Eek" back legs, but breed 'im anyway? 

.... does not compute....

Also... why with TBs? What would that accomplish?


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

JustDressageIt said:


> Also... why with TBs? What would that accomplish?


Maybe it's to get bad feet to go with the legs...:?


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## ponyjocky (Apr 12, 2010)

Breeding is about pairing two horses who complement each other.
Something uphill and leg conformation-ally correct will make a good baby.
Appendix horses are the most versatile equines i can think of. 

hellllllooooo pinto sport horses are very desirable. 

Just because he isn't perfect doesn't mean he cant be crossed with something to make a near perfect product (foal).


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

*here is the other stud.*

so its dully or this lil guy
or they could both be gelded





























He has an excellent handle and is competing in the breakaway roping and goat tying arena. He is a super quiet. He is currently being patterned on barrels and poles and is super quick and snappy around the turns.
he's14.2 and was born in 2004


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## apachewhitesox (Dec 9, 2010)

ponyjocky said:


> Breeding is about pairing two horses who complement each other.
> Something uphill and leg conformation-ally correct will make a good baby.
> Appendix horses are the most versatile equines i can think of.
> 
> ...


Isn't that why the parents are wanted to be as near to perfect as possible because you could get the chance of ending up with a foal who has all the bad point of both parents.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Faceman said:


> Maybe it's to get bad feet to go with the legs...:?


:rofl: Harsh but I had to laugh.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

The sorrel shouldn't be a stud either. 
Pony, the idea is to breed two equines that compliment one another for a PURPOSE. Not breed just to breed an ok all-rounder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

ponyjocky said:


> Breeding is about pairing two horses who complement each other.
> Something uphill and leg conformation-ally correct will make a good baby.
> Appendix horses are the most versatile equines i can think of.
> 
> ...


I have been breeding for a long time and that has got to be one of the worst reason to breed I think I have heard of.


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## crimson88 (Aug 29, 2009)

The chestnut would probably be better suited as a gelding, IMO.


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## Ohhkierst (Jan 2, 2011)

just because a horse has a great handle doesn't mean you need to see if you can make more of him/her. More than likely you will get the opposite. I say geld. There are plenty of great studs out there and also many that look exactly like the ones posted here, in my opinion there are already to many horses being bred in this economy. I know a lot of breeders that have reduced their breeding to just a few mares and stopped doing outside breeding. Its the economy. dont mess it with. GELD GELD GELD


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I would like to see good, squared-up, level side shots of both horses.


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## BarrelRacer86 (Jul 6, 2010)

dullylover said:


> he runs a 2/1d depending if ur truly pushing him. and honestly thats a good idea i don't think keeping two studs would be that easy after a while.. its hard as it is.. if i posted pics of the other stud would you guys tell me if i should geld them both or which to keep a stud?


Divisions don't really matter, some areas are more competitive than others. How big of shows are you going to? Local, big shows, state level, world level? NBHA, IBRA, rodeos?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I hate to say it, but I would geld both of them. I would actually have gelded them when they first dropped. 

The economy is very down especially when selling horses.Well, atleast where I am. 

It's a little unrelated but I breed Boer goats. At first I didn't invest.. I got half-decent looking kids from two goats with extraordinary pedigrees, but "meh" conformation. Unfortunately I lost both sire and dam in the past three months - but I have their two offspring. I have one for sale, she priced at $200 (low/average for a goat like her) and I have gotten no offers. 

This would probably be the case for you, too. If you want to breed, invest.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

HollyJane said:


> It's not a question of whether or not you should stand him - it's a question of whether or not people would breed their mares to him.


:shock:
You have obviously not read much of Craigslist have you?
There is always someone looking for a cheap stallion to breed their mare too. The ads usually include something like, 'do not care what breed'. The only requirement is the stud fee be cheap.

So just because someone is blind enough to breed to something does not mean it is breeding worthy.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I actually like the chestnut better than the colored guy. I would like to see square photos of both of them, but I still say geld on both accounts. 

I'm sure you COULD find plenty of mares to breed the pinto guy to and probably the chestnut too. However I don't think either would be producing anything we don't have plenty of already.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Just remember, if breed a stallion with a few weak points to a mare hoping her genes will correct out those, think again. You could end up with an offspring that got both parent's mixed weak points & none of their qualities. Have seen that happen more than once for sure!


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## dullylover (Jun 19, 2011)

thank you guys. wheres forum of a gelding and mare i own..its movement.. but if you would could you look them over and they are for sale


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

waresbear said:


> Just remember, if breed a stallion with a few weak points to a mare hoping her genes will correct out those, think again. You could end up with an offspring that got both parent's mixed weak points & none of their qualities. Have seen that happen more than once for sure!


Correctamundo...one of the easiest ways to spot someone who knows nothing about breeding is someone who thinks you can cross an uphill with a downhill and get a level back, or you can cross a good legs/bad feet with a bad legs/good feet and get a good legs/good feet.

If only it were that easy...:?

Breeding a very good, predictable product is extremely complex, and takes many years of research and experience...which of course is why 95% of horses are mediocre. Not that there is anything wrong with a mediocre horse - that's what most horses are and what most people want. But there are a bazillion of them out there already...it will be many years before there is a demand to breed mores...


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

ponyjocky said:


> hellllllooooo pinto sport horses are very desirable.


_So because pinto sport horses are very desireable, the market should be flooded with them? That will make them potentially less desireable, not to mention make their worth go down. Once something is a dime a dozen, it doesn't have the same appeal anymore._

_Besides, it seems like that is partially why the market is already crappy. With so much "junk" out there, prices aren't what they should be. _



_It would be like a crack hoochie going into the sperm bank and getting a donation from a crack junkie. You now have a crack baby! Yay! What you actually have is a burden to society, which is exactly what that foal would be...a burden on an already poor market._


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

Both thier conformation is "meh" cow hocks on both studs, nothing screams "breed me" personally I would never breed my mare (if I had one) to any of your studs, it's conformation and tempermant, color is just a bonus that is what's important to me when breeding. There are waaaay too many good quality horses on the market today to justify keeping your boys bits on. BUT i'm sure they will make great geldings.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

I just want to give kudos to the OP for accepting everyones input and actually listening to it instead of arguing and trolling.



ETA: About the colored sport horse thing:
In order to win, the horse has to be just as good/better as the solid-colored horses. Color does not win the class. Therefore, buying/breeding horses just for color makes no sense. If someone is looking to buy a competitive horse, they're going to look at past performance records, regardless of color (assuming they're a sane individual). There is a reason TALENTED colored sport horses are pretty rare.. First you have to breed for talent then you can hope to find something that will produce color... If not, you're sacrificing talent for color.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Get him out show him finish him out if he already has points that tells me somewhere along the way he was successful then stand him make something of him dont geld or not geld per the advice of a message board. I have a saying I love My Horse My Way.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> if he already has points that tells me somewhere along the way he was successful


That is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

Have you never been to an open show?

Sometimes the horse that wins only wins because the rest are so much worse. 
Having points, unless they are consistent points at good shows, truly mean squat sometimes.


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## goodhrs (Dec 30, 2009)

A knack for horses said:


> He looks like a really nice horse, but I'd vote to geld. I love his color, and looks pretty versitale, but there are enough nice studs out there. I think he would make a phenomenal gelding.


 I agree.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Glad I amused you, who are we to say what sort of show he was entered into hence my part on finish him out.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Glad I amused you, who are we to say what sort of show he was entered into hence my part on finish him out.



B/C she stated it was not at a breed show. In APHA you can get Pac points at open type shows if they apply for the status. So unless 50% or more of those points are actually with in APHA then they do not mean a whole lot.

There are certain places you want to see points earned and certain places you want to see money earned. Depends on what you are doing. Points in AQHA and APHA in reining are meaningless. However earnings with in NRHA mean so much much more. It is all relevant to what you are competing in.


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## VMorganW (Apr 3, 2011)

I wonder if these people who have such negative things to say about your horse know all that much about barrel racing? Your horse has great conformation for this sport and with the right training he can really go far. I'm not going to be one to tell you what you need to do like 90% of everyone else on here but I'd keep him a stallion and keep competing and training, if he really proves to be a winner it wouldn't matter if he was just plain jane sorrel people would pay for his services because his conformation fits the sport you have him for. And seven is a good age to geld him, gives him the full amount of time to develope. Plus I've always known people who have kept their colts stallions for a longer time to have really nice muscle tone.


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## HollyJane (Feb 11, 2011)

VMorganW said:


> I wonder if these people who have such negative things to say about your horse know all that much about barrel racing? Your horse has great conformation for this sport and with the right training he can really go far. I'm not going to be one to tell you what you need to do like 90% of everyone else on here but I'd keep him a stallion and keep competing and training, if he really proves to be a winner it wouldn't matter if he was just plain jane sorrel people would pay for his services because his conformation fits the sport you have him for. And seven is a good age to geld him, gives him the full amount of time to develope. Plus I've always known people who have kept their colts stallions for a longer time to have really nice muscle tone.


 
I full heartedly agree with everything said here.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*cough*

There are a couple of members that posted on this thread that are heavily into barrel racing and are quite competitive. There opinion was also not stud/breeding quality.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Heavy muscling is a disadvantage in speed sports, lean, fast twitch muscles are much more adventageous than bulky muscle studs tend to produce as a result of testosterone. No, I still say he is not stallion quality.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

With all honesty, if you are to keep him (either of them) studs, get good photos. You won't convince anyone of stud quality with shots which may be (or are) skewed because of perspective... 

A conformation shot shows the horse standing well, for it's conformation ( so like you'd set up for a halter class) and the photo will be taken from the middle of the horse's barrel with the camera to be level with the mid barrel (especially with short horses as otherwise you can get some odd looking legs and necks). Bath them up, dress them up in show halters, get some good light, a nice backdrop, and a decent camera... And take hundreds... You'll wind up with between 3-6 good shots that will let your market see what you really have to offer.

None of these photos do either horse justice.

AQHA registers over 300,000 foals every year and APHA, roughly 40,000 every year. That's a lot of horses on the ground without these two being bred.

That said, if you are actively making them marketable as stallions via show records, i would imagine both of these horses are far from the worst examples of their breeds, as far as stallions go. At least they have training, have been shown, and hey... Just because it has balls doesn't mean it has to be bred. You can always wait it out and see if the performance record will make up for any conformation flaws, all horeses have some conformation flaw, it's about the severity of them or the limitations each flaw carries with it.


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## HollyJane (Feb 11, 2011)

Sometimes conformation does not matter in a horse's ability to be a champion in something - it's all speculation until you actually give it a try. Based on conformation, some of the world's greatest racing stallions would be called culls. You cannot judge a horse's athletic ability based on conformation - if we did that, some of our "great" stallions would never even have been given a chance. Some of the best cutting horses I've ever known don't have a drop of "cutting blood" and the fastest horse i've ever ridden was a half draft.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I would say geld both horses. Having massive toplines is not just the preserve of stallions, get the horse working correctly and any horse can have massive toplines.

I own a coloured sports horse gelding. He was gelded at 18months (we think) as he was not concidered to be stallion quality.
He has gone on to make an absolutly stunning gelding and has won a lot in the show ring.
I'm undecided if I personaly would have gelded him but more then likely I would have.
this is mine
aged 4

















as a 2.5 yr old


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

HollyJane said:


> Sometimes conformation does not matter in a horse's ability to be a champion in something - it's all speculation until you actually give it a try. Based on conformation, some of the world's greatest racing stallions would be called culls. You cannot judge a horse's athletic ability based on conformation - if we did that, some of our "great" stallions would never even have been given a chance. Some of the best cutting horses I've ever known don't have a drop of "cutting blood" and the fastest horse i've ever ridden was a half draft.


actualy you can take a **** good guess at preformance based off conformation. A down hill horse is going to struggle with Higher levels of collection. A horse who is thick through the jowl is going to struggle to flex at the poll etc. Horses with upright shoulders will have a choppy short stride which is brilliant for harness horses but not for a ridden animal.

Also Conformation dictates longevity, perticularly when it comes to soundness. All my horses have very good conformation and not one of them has a single lump or bump on thier legs. Splints and torn tendons are often (but not always) a result of poor leg conformation. Infact if you have a horse that is back at the knee then it is at HUGE risk of tearing the suspensory tendon every time they jump or spin. A horse that is over at the knee is not such a bad thing but is at increased risk of artheritic changes in the knee.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Having ridden and trained a lot of barrel horses up to a very respectably competitive level, I can tell you that I would not seriously consider this horse as a prospect for myself. And while he may be able to do reasonably well with good training and despite his native conformation, he would never be able to compete with the world-beaters, and thus, from a barrel racing perspective, he is not stallion quality.

He's too downhill. His leg bones are too fine. His hocks are too high. His feet are too small. His pasterns are too short and upright. His muscling is too thick, impeding real athletic motion. And so on.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Several vets have told me, if you geld early, the horse will likely grow taller. I do not recall the exact reason why, something to do with testosterone and the growth platelettes. I would say at 5 yrs, a stallion isn't getting any taller so you missed the boat on that, or anymore muscular, he's done growing, so geld him before you have anymore more "mistakes". Once again, he is a fine looking horse, both are, but why do you want the headache & extra work of keeping stallions?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

waresbear said:


> but why do you want the headache & extra work of keeping stallions?



Amen to that, Alto is a dream to handle, but it is a constant annoyance having here, when he is turned out, as he is at the moment, I have to spend ages trying to work out how to rotate the grazing so he is never 'over the fence' with anyone else. 

I can't believe the relief now the yearlings have been gelded, just think in a few short weeks I'll be able to turn them out with the mares, YIPEE, it will make life so much easier to manage,


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## TheLastUnicorn (Jun 11, 2010)

Golden Horse makes a great point for gelding him. 

Unless you have the ability to keep your stallions with other horses in the non breeding season, most live happier lives as geldings where they are often given more freedom to be horses.

If I did not have the ability to keep our boys together, or wven with the geldings, they wouldn't be with us as stallions.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Anyone who considers him to have perfect conformation for barrel racing is just showing their own ignorance about barrel racing, so trying to act like a snob in light of the real barrel racing members we have on this forum is redonkulous.

He's a good looking little horse, but there's no way he would make it in the big times. We have plenty of all around studs already, which is exactly what he is - good at everything, great at nothing. I see them all the time, and frankly, it's a pretty lousy reason to keep a stallion. Most horses end up being a "jack of all trades".

That being said, it sounds like the OP has a good head on their shoulders and is willing to listen to advice, so kudos to you! With an attitude like that, you WILL own a stallion worth standing, a stallion that will make you money. Personally, if I couldn't charge at least a 1K stud fee, I doubt I'd waste my time on the headache of having a stallion around. Standing a stud for under that usually isn't serious enough to draw enough people to breed. We have a good barrel racing stud in this area who wins everything locally and regionally, but doubtful he'll ever go nationally and his fee is $500. Based on our area, I bet she makes more money competing on him
then she does on outside breedings. Nobody locally is interested enough in barrel racing, and his name isn't big enough by far to go any further then local.


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## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

If you do breed your stallion with any flaws, make sure you can check the mares he breeds to be sure they're flaws will compliment his to make more balanced babies - that's about all the advice I can honestly throw.


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