# Appropriate Horse For My Size?



## ManicMini

I'm in the process of buying a horse and after seeing pictures of me while riding her, i'm starting to worry that it wouldn't be fair to expect her to carry me on trail rides through the mountains. I'm 5'1" and close to 150lbs. The horse is a 3 year old TWH that is 14.2-14.3. These pictures aren't great but my bf isn't a great photographer.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Are you sure she's 14.2-14.3?! She looks WAY shorter than that, not to mention how narrow she is. 

Personally, I'd go for a horse with more width and more bone. She seems a little light on bone to me and she doesn't take up your leg at all, making her appear super tiny under you. 

I assume that's your boyfriend holding her in the first pic? How tall is he?


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## Roman

She looks more like a 1yo horse too me. Needs some weight put on her. 

I would find a bigger looking horse, like Drafty said.


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## ManicMini

That's what I was told for her height. She doesn't feel super tiny while on her but if she's not up to the job to pack me around the mountains comfortably, i'd rather not purchase her. She doesn't act like she's struggling to carry me but I know horses can be rather stoic. 

That is the boyfriend holding her in the first picture and he's 6'5". I don't like how narrow she is and everyone is reassuring me that she'll "fill out" because she just turned three in April. I'm just reeling because I put a $500 deposit on her and despite the owner reassuring me I looked fine, I wonder if they were just being polite?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SEAmom

Is that you riding? If so and you're 5'1", there is no way that horse is 14.2-14.3hh. Much closer to 13.2-13.3hh and definitely doesn't look like a 3 year old. I'm 5'8" and my horse is 14.3hh and I look about the same size on him that you do on that horse.

Personally, I'd keep looking and get something that's full grown (at least height-wise).


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## DraftyAiresMum

It's not that you look big on her, it's that she isn't as big as they say she is. There's just no way she's 14.2hh, even. If you hadn't told me your height, based on those pics, I would have guessed you to be at least 5'8" or 5'9".

My best friend has a 3yo arab/paint cross filly who is 14.2hh. My best friend is 5'8" and looks about how you look on that filly when riding hers.


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## ManicMini

Thanks for all the honest replies! This is something that's been bothering me since I met the horse and especially since viewing the pictures. It's an odd feeling to be wider than a horse! I'll email the owners tonight and either find out whether I can kiss that deposit goodbye or if they have a more suitable horse they'd be willing to put the deposit towards.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

I am a very similar height and weight to you. I am going to PM you the non blurried version. I think it will make the point quite nicely.

In fact I am taller then you and the horse shorter than what is supposedly pictured (he is more 14-14.2)

I think a 14.2+ horse of the right build would be just perfect for you. If you are a balanced rider you could ride pretty much any horse that height. I find that range is perfect for me and I am taller. If you are concerned there are plenty of stocky QHs that fit the height and can easily carry far more then you weight, so don't be concerned.

This horse is super cute as a rescue from a sketchy place. I am also guessing she may be far younger, and obviously something's not adding up either way.

Don't buy her as a riding horse, at least not yet.

I wouldn't pay $500 for her let alone as a deposit. They weren't being nice they are trying to cheat you. Either that or they literally have mental issues and don't realize what is going on.

Moral of the story: go with your gut. You shouldn't be "reeling" about anything other then giddiness.

My bf's 6'3" so that give my a height idea and this gelding does NOT look like that filly does next to him!!

14.3 is a normal height for a small horse, that is a pony.


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## ManicMini

OMG that pic Yogiwick, really put it all into perspective for me. I feel really bad for squishing some poor pony the two times I tried her out. I'd love to have a horse built like a Quarter Horse but I need something with a smooth gait due to some serious back issues. It's hard to find a TWH with some substance to them...I didn't think it would be this hard to find an appropriate gaited horse since I live in East TN!

This is all really disappointing because I adore this horse and have been admiring her for over a year. I was over the moon about purchasing her until I saw the pics and realized how mismatched we were in size. Losing $500 sucks pretty bad too._Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms

I'm 5'8" & weigh 160. My 15 hand Arab/Mustang mix is slender, but he seems to have no problem packing me. Maybe that is because his previous owner weighs in around 200. I don't have any pictures of me riding him, but this is him standing next to my 5'2" wife:










Trooper (our Appy) is 850 lbs and uses a cinch 2" longer than what I use with my gelding (Bandit). This is me riding him when I weighted 180+:










Bandit is 7, has been packing a much larger rider than me, going 20-30 miles at a time, and hasn't gone swayback yet...










This is me on Mia, when I weighted 180. She was 15.2 or 3 and weighed 900 lbs. Her cinch was 2" bigger than Bandit's.










To be honest, I think a lot of folks worry way too much about putting some weight on a horse. Use a good fitting saddle that distributes weight, work the horse into it, and the horse will be fine. If you are significantly over 200 lbs, you MIGHT worry some. But a lot of guys would have to quit riding if horses were as frail as a lot of folks claim!


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## Yogiwick

I DO have short legs but I sent you the "full" picture to.

I am glad it helped things click.

Don't worry, I have been there too. She doesn't seem unhappy (though I don't see that lasting over time). Live and learn.

Honestly I'm not sure if I would buy from those people at all. I missed you had ALREADY put down the deposit :/.

If you want something appropriate for you and smooth. (Honestly I don't think you need stocky as long as the horse is average build and horse sized!). You can look at typical gaited breeds, I would also suggest QHs, and Arabs, and cob types. Depending on exactly what your back can handle and obviously if something catches your eye specifically ask about gaits. QHs I find are either smooth or fast, they don't go together. Arabs can be hit or miss (only look at the good ones, gaits don't matter on the others lol), look at conformation. Cobs are usually pretty comfy. Obviously the various gaited breeds, I think RMHs tend to be a little shorter and stockier (relatively).

One thing I will suggest and will always suggest after knowing them- Icelandics. PERFECT horse for kids and elderly and anyone with issues, or just anyone who wants to have fun. They really can do anything. My Arab is my "heart horse" but my Icelandic is just fun. Bombproof and super quiet/sane yet fun, gaited, easy height yet can carry anyone. Mine is very small for the breed at 12.3 and she carries me like nothing (I'd show a pic if I could find one, it really is and looks like riding a full sized horse you need to see it to really get it). If you got one at a more normal height (13-14hh) that would be perfect for you.

I hope you don't get stuck buying from them. :/ Are all their horses like this? Are all TWHs?


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## DraftyAiresMum

bsms said:


> I'm 5'8" & weigh 160. My 15 hand Arab/Mustang mix is slender, but he seems to have no problem packing me. Maybe that is because his previous owner weighs in around 200. I don't have any pictures of me riding him, but this is him standing next to my 5'2" wife:
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> To be honest, I think a lot of folks worry way too much about putting some weight on a horse. Use a good fitting saddle that distributes weight, work the horse into it, and the horse will be fine. If you are significantly over 200 lbs, you MIGHT worry some. But a lot of guys would have to quit riding if horses were as frail as a lot of folks claim!


BSMS, I think the issue is more that 1) the horse is fairly young and 2) the horse is CLEARLY not the height the sellers are claiming. Not even remotely close. If the horse really were 14.2-14.3hh, then there wouldn't be a problem at all.

OP, I'm not suggesting you need something super wide or stocky, just not as slender and light as the filly in the pics.


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## Yogiwick

bsms- The issue isn't the ratio, or at least not solely the ratio, though I don't necessarily agree with everything you posted.

The issue is that the OP is 5'1". I am short and am obviously familiar with my height. I know which horses I fit and which I don't, I have ridden plenty. The OP is shorter then I am and the horse looks that tiny?? See the above picture of me on my 14+hh Arab, now I am 2 inches taller (with short legs) so lets just say the Arab is 14.2. So if I look like that, and the OP looks like that... how old do you think that horse is? How tall? What weight? I feel confident the horse is younger than said, clearly is shorter than said (maybe 13??) and weight what maybe 700?

Not to get into the ethics of the sellers which should be pretty clear but do you really think this filly (mare just isn't right) is ready to be carrying any rider? Do you genuinely think based off the pics the OP and filly are (at this point in time) a suitable match?

I think there is a very genuine issue of riders being too heavy. My boyfriend is 230. I would NEVER put him on that Arab pictured, who has good conformation and is from a breed known to carry weight. If he were to ride one of my horses it would be the 15.3 stocky one. It's not like heavy riders = sway back horses, if so there would be a lot more sway backed horses walking around!!

If you have to work the horse into your weight you are too heavy. It's not just a matter of fitness (though that obviously helps in the short term).

It's also not just a matter of size or stocky-ness or "girth length" (not sure why that matters that much) it comes down to the conformation and soundness of the horse and the strength within the body.

And ultimately as the OP put it "It's an odd feeling to be wider than a horse!". If you think that's a good match then so be it.

Would I put 180 on my Arab? Yeah sure. Not sure if I'd be comfortable with someone truly working him esp regularly but definitely for bumming around. My mother has ridden him just fine.

Agree if the filly were mature and actually 14.3 or so I think the OP would be fine.


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## ManicMini

I wish there would be a way to get the deposit back on the horse, considering that they misrepresented her. I've read everything everyone posted and to be perfectly honest, I have no idea what i'm going to do. I don't know if I should buy her and see how she turns out in time. Or just chalk it up to another hard, expensive lesson learned and move on.

I've been burned by horse sellers in the very recent past and have not found one seller who doesn't misrepresent their horses by lying about age, suitability, or the fact they take probably half a liter of tranquilizer to be safe enough to handle. I'm ready to give up on finding a suitable horse altogether at this point. I'm not trying to be dramatic but i'm tired of bumming rides off of friends' horses and not having one of my own!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

I'm not sure how much more she'll grow. It would depend on how tall her parents are.

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the sellers are intentionally misrepresenting her. Some people are not at all good at guestimating heights. I have a friend who is a long-time horsewoman who bought a taller-than-usual gelding to get him out of the situation he was in and sold him on. She posted on Facebook gushing about this 18+hh gelding. Then she posted a pic with her standing next to him (she's about 5'6-5'7"). The gelding was maybe 16.2hh. It wasn't that she was intentionally saying he was taller than he was, she was making an honest guess.


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## Yogiwick

Sure but I'm pretty sure that filly is not the age they said, which at that point should be pretty easy to figure unless she's been passed through a million hands in "3" whole years" who knows.

Can you get a pic of her teeth? just say you're concerned.

I'm sure legally you could get it back if they did intentionally misrepresent but not sure if it's worth it.

She does look cute and sweet but I wouldn't buy her just because. Not a reason to buy any horse you are hesitant about.

If you do buy her I would start with turning her back out to grow. Not the reason you're buying a saddle horse! If she is young it may be that much longer before you can ride her. Or maybe she's just tiny and won't grow, then what.

If you want to buy her buy her, I'm not saying not to, just that you shouldn't do it for the wrong reasons. The whole point is to enjoy the horse and be able to do what you want to do. Also, $500 should be the max you pay.


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## bsms

It isn't very hard to tell if a horse is roughly 14.2 or 14.3. If the horse is far off of that, then the horse has been misrepresented. The OP has been next to the horse. The OP ought to know, reasonably well, if the horse is 13.2 or 14.2. It just isn't that hard to stand next to a horse and estimate the difference between 13 hands, 14 hands, and 15 hands. If in doubt, simply go to the seller with a 5' tall pole and hold it next to her withers. If there is more than 2-3 inches between the top of the pole and the height of the withers, the OP will KNOW. Take a photo. If it is a 13 hand horse being misrepresented, you WILL be able to get your deposit back - think "small claims court"!

A number of posts on this thread say to get a stockier horse. My contention is that stocky isn't needed for someone who weighs under 150 lbs. NONE of my horses are stocky, and I haven't been under 150 since I was a kid.

Bandit, the new guy, is slender. 15 hands and uses a 26 inch cinch, which is hard enough to find to suggest many horse are bigger around (stockier). Trooper is 14.3 and weighs 835 according to the vet's estimate. That isn't stocky either. Doesn't matter. He can (and has) hauled bigger guys than me around all day, every day.

"If you have to work the horse into your weight you are too heavy."

If so, most of us are too heavy. A horse has to learn how to handle a rider's weight. A horse that is used to being ridden 30 miles will be able to handle a much heavier load than one that is normally ridden 3 miles a week...just like an athletic man can carry a heavier pack than a couch potato.

Very few men weigh under 150. Does this mean all men need to ride Quarter Horses, or drafts? I think not! And if that stocky QH comes from halter lines, it will barely be able to handle its OWN weight, let alone the additional weight of a rider. Solid legs and good feet count for more than stockiness.

Here is some good advice:

Heavier Riders' Guide


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## anndankev

The filly (at 3 yrs still a filly) seems of a very slight/narrow build; however, likely has a lot of filling out to do with proper feed and care.

Posters are saying she looks much younger, maybe only 1 yr old. I notice the OP says she has been watching her for a year.

Does she look much different now than when you first started looking at her?


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## ManicMini

The filly doesn't look much different other than gaining some muscle in her topline, hindquarters and shoulders. I have no idea how old she was in the first pictures of her I ever saw but she was most likely 1.5-2 years old in them. 

I've decided to have a vet come out and do a PPE on her and ask a professional opinion on her age and suitability for the riding I have in mind. It'll give me piece of mind and most of all no false hope that it'll all magically work itself out somehow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

OP that sounds like an excellent idea for the situation. 
Bsms. I'm sure the Op doesn't want to go to court unless she has to. I would not consider your new horse stocky at all. I think you're misunderstanding the term. Regardless I completely agree that the OP is a completely normal weight and should not need a large horse. Any sound average size horse should be just fine. In fact I think an appropriately built small horse/large pony would be ideal. You know if someone needs an adult to hop on pony I'm the one they go get. However this filly is very slender and very small and immature. I would also question her age when they broke her in. The OP doesn't need a stocky horse. But if she gets a 13 hand pony it should be stocky. I feel as if you did not see the pictures


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## Drifting

Did you sign any paperwork when you gave a deposit? If the vet proves she's not 14.1/14.2 (and during a PPE they should measure) then you should be able to get your deposit back due to false advertisement, if she passes the rest of the PPE.


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## ManicMini

So this is what's happened so far. After giving every thing everyone in this thread had to say a lot of consideration and voicing my concerns to the seller, they said they would allow me to move my deposit over to a more suitable horse of my choosing. I'm really upset that i'm too big for this horse and she's built too small for me. I wonder if i'm jumping the gun on backing out of buying the filly? 

Then my better judgment says to quit focusing on her color so much when she obviously isn't the right horse for me and the riding I intend to do. I'm looking a few other horses that not only have trail experience but the build to comfortably carry me without causing them any physical harm. This is another horse I am looking at, what do you all think about her suitability for me?







_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee

A horse that's on the small side and as narrow as that one is going to put you at a real risk of falling off very easily if it spooks or just stumbles.
The horse does look under grown for its age but other than that its a nice enough little animal - and there's nothing wrong with you - but put the two of you together and the overall appearance just looks all wrong
A horse is a big commitment so matching you with the right size/build is important
You're short enough for a stockier built 14.2 so look for something like that


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## Zexious

Subbing.
Best of luck with your search!


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## ManicMini

Speaking of spooking, the filly spooked really bad while I was leading past two gelding that were running about. Then she spooked under saddle when she heard the crack of a whip. I wasn't riding her at the time but it was enough to make me start to rethink purchasing her. 

I've had to be completely honest with myself, as much as I didn't want to, that she just isn't the right horse for me. I don't want to feel terrible each time I take a ride on her and that thought is what made me realize that she is a great horse. Just not a great horse for me /:

The other horse i'm looking at has been used extensively as a trail horse and appears to be a much more suitable choice for me. She has a charming personality and exceedingly gentle. I'm not sure if the picture of her I attached to my previous showed up but to my untrained eye she seems to fit what I need in terms of her overall build and characyer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ManicMini

Double post


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## Ebonyisforme

My dad weighs almost 200 and rides our 14hh horse just fine.


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## Yogiwick

ManicMini said:


> So this is what's happened so far. After giving every thing everyone in this thread had to say a lot of consideration and voicing my concerns to the seller, they said they would allow me to move my deposit over to a more suitable horse of my choosing. I'm really upset that i'm too big for this horse and she's built too small for me. I wonder if i'm jumping the gun on backing out of buying the filly?
> 
> Then my better judgment says to quit focusing on her color so much when she obviously isn't the right horse for me and the riding I intend to do. I'm looking a few other horses that not only have trail experience but the build to comfortably carry me without causing them any physical harm. This is another horse I am looking at, what do you all think about her suitability for me?
> View attachment 657314
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> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's cute.

I can't say if she's appropriate or not since I don't know how big she is, she looks like she may be small too.

For her build I'd want her at least 15/15.2 or so. (Just guessing it's so much easier in person!!)

Honestly though- her conformation scares me.. and there's something very not right with those front feet. The needs a good farrier, and I don't know if her conformation will stay sound even if she is 18hh and you are a feather on her. She doesn't look like a normal horse.

I know you have a deposit down and are trying to work with these people but honestly the more I find out the more they sound like people you should be actively avoiding.

I know that's not what you want to hear but I need to be honest.


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## bsms

Yogiwick said:


> ...Bsms. I'm sure the Op doesn't want to go to court unless she has to. I would not consider your new horse stocky at all. I think you're misunderstanding the term.... I feel as if you did not see the pictures


I'm sure the seller would also prefer to avoid court. Having it as an option can be helpful in negotiating if the seller doesn't cooperate. In this case, it sounds like the seller is cooperating and the OP has a good plan of action.

I specifically said my new guy "is slender" and "NONE of my horses are stocky". I'm not misunderstanding what stocky means.

I saw the pictures. I also know pictures can mislead. It is very hard to judge a horse's height to within 2" from a picture of someone riding it. It is much easier if a measuring stick is next to it. I hate to claim a seller is misleading someone on height based on pictures of a person riding.

If in doubt, measure. If still in doubt, get a vet to look. If there is fraud, consider the courts - but always try talking to a seller first. There are jerks out there, but quite a few decent folk too. 

Good article on estimating weights here:

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/as.../Estimating-a-horses-condition-and-weight.pdf


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## Yogiwick

bsms said:


> I'm sure the seller would also prefer to avoid court. Having it as an option can be helpful in negotiating if the seller doesn't cooperate. In this case, it sounds like the seller is cooperating and the OP has a good plan of action.
> 
> I specifically said my new guy "is slender" and "NONE of my horses are stocky". I'm not misunderstanding what stocky means.
> 
> I saw the pictures. I also know pictures can mislead. It is very hard to judge a horse's height to within 2" from a picture of someone riding it. It is much easier if a measuring stick is next to it. I hate to claim a seller is misleading someone on height based on pictures of a person riding.
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> If in doubt, measure. If still in doubt, get a vet to look. If there is fraud, consider the courts - but always try talking to a seller first. There are jerks out there, but quite a few decent folk too.
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> Good article on estimating weights here:
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> http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/as.../Estimating-a-horses-condition-and-weight.pdf


I need to apologize not sure where I came up with the stocky thing from. Must of been half asleep lol.

Obviously we can't determine an exact height from the pictures but I think it's safe to say that the horse is definitely NOT the height the sellers claim she is. If "misleading" is the OPs main concern she could stick it but that's not the concern.

I completely agree to give the sellers the benefit of the doubt (while looking out for your own interests of course). I can't say it's a "fact" but I am 100% positive and I am sure most other horse people would be that if the OP is 5'1" then the horse is not the height the sellers claimed it is. I think the term "misleading" came about as the stated height was misleading not that the sellers were intentionally trying to pull something (though personally I'm not sure on that)

As for weight based on height while there are some general guidelines that doesn't mean anything to me at all. I know plenty of exact same height horses that are in optimal condition for their builds that are different weights. Say a 14hh Haflinger and a 14hh Hackney. Or on the other hand my sister and I are the exact same height and if we were both in the exact same condition I would weigh more. I had a friend 3 inches taller then me who weighed less then me, again both in similar condition.

Interesting article, but not relevant imo. For fun I plugged in some numbers and the results were about what I expected.. Apparently all the horses I know are freaks lol.


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## ManicMini

What about her conformation scares you? Tear her apart, don't spare my feelings as there are none for her. The horse in question is 15hh. As far as getting the deposit back, it would require court and my work does not considered that an excusable absence. So that would not be possible.

This search for an appropriate horse doesn't seem like it'll ever end. Or if it does, it will not have a happy ending for the horse or myself. It's really discouraging because I didn't think it would be so hard to find a horse that could be smooth to ride and carry my weight and tack. Especially not after looking at the entire "Are You Brave Enough To Post A Pic?" thread. That's not a personal dig to anyone, so don't take it that way. 

It just seemed like everyone got the right horse the first or second time. The buckskin is my fourth failed attempt at finding the right horse. Needless to say, i've spent a lot of money on the wrong horses  

I'm ready to eat the $500 and give up on ever owning a horse. Because $500 is a drop in the bucket in the long run of how much i've spent on unsuitable horses. I don't know anyone else who has ever had this many problems just trying to find a horse that isn't too small, isn't a complete mental case, or built like a horsey Frankenstein! This is more of a rant than a woe is me...so please post pictures of horses with the conformation I should be looking for. I obviously do not have an eye for horses at all. Unless they're cryptorchid, psycho, FrankenHorses that are actually ponies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

You are NOT an abnormal size. 150 is a completely normal weight for a woman and small for a man.

You really shouldn't be getting discouraged. All you need is an average sized horse (just not a pony unless stocky) that is also smooth. It's not that hard and definitely not impossible. You may have hit some dead ends but don't get discouraged. This is the "low" of horse buying. It's super exciting..until it's not. Do NOT get discouraged!! There are plenty of nice horses out there, sometimes it just takes a little digging.

As an in general you want something 14-15 average build and sane/sound. I have the feeling you might prefer a stocky horse I know some people do but all that matters at this point is that the horse can carry you which should not be an issue at all.

I think the big decision here is are you really going to buy from these people and if so what are your options OR eating the money and looking elsewhere (or not at all though I sincerely hope that's not the case). I know I would personally look elsewhere but there's a good bit of money on the line and it's not mine. I do think the horses are likely overpriced though.

It should be fun and you will feel GOOD when you find the right one! You don't want to buy one because you feel stuck.

Why don't you post a thread with your options and horses you are really thinking about under critiques? Or if back to searching just say that. It's always fun to help someone else look. Don't get stuck on color.

Now while I will say that is likely an awful picture what I see is- short thin oddly set neck, shoulder looks steep though may be the angle, standing way camped under in front which may be how she was standing though from the feet may be her normal. Super long underrun front feet, clubby in back. A good farrier could probably fix this, but it would take several trims I think. I think the legs look OK. Back legs look very straight and posty. Small hip and tucked up looking. Rafter back and may be roached. I think saddle fit will be hard.

She just looks really odd, I can't even place it all, BUT I really think she's not that bad if set up nicely. Definitely not perfect but not all of that matters for soundness. Just remember when looking at horses you don't ride the head, nor the color .

If you like her get a PPE. I would be curious to see some better pictures.


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## ManicMini

There is a good deal of money on the line, for me anyways. I live within my means and have given up some not so healthy habits to comfortably afford horse ownership. So more or less, yes I am stuck purchasing a horse from these particular sellers. Now they aren't bad people, I actually like them quite a lot. Out of all the horses they have though, i'm sure there is one that I would also be well suited for in every aspect.

Are their horses overpriced? In my opinion, yes they are. After the first time I went out there I was entranced by all the different horses and how well-mannered they all are. Which was a far cry from the mental, untrained, drugged horse I had previously bought.

The last horse I posted is one that was a serious contender for the deposit. However the more I looked at her pictures the more I realized she was built more like an Okapi than a horse. I'm wondering if it was an attempt to have her look as if she was parked out that failed or if that's how she stands normally?

Google brought up 50 billion pictures of parked out TWHs. That makes it even harder for me to judge her against what's normal for the breed or horses in general.


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## Yogiwick

Uh. Not to be mean to the poor mare but I was thinking Okapi too.. so funny. I guess there is a resemblance!!

Luckily she DOES look much better in the newer picture posted. I would still have a lot of the same concerns and her pasterns are pretty long too, I can't blame it just on the feet anymore lol.

I think there's just a type of horse that they breed :/.

That said in the newer picture she just looks like a horse with questionable conformation, but not a complete disaster.

If you are set on buying from these people and really do like her then get a PPE (and make sure she is actually 15hh or close to it lol).

If the vet says she's good then she's good.

While you really want nice conformation there are plenty of horses with less then optimal that do just fine, so if you aren't looking to compete I wouldn't focus on that too much. Again, I see a type with the seller's horses so unless the horse is a disaster would try not to focus on that too too much (though it is obviously still important).

Just make sure to get that vet out!!


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## greentree

This mare is way better than the other......I don't see anything wrong besides needing a good farrier. 

Please, do not believe anyone who says you are too big to ride. This is just another internet rule that insensitive clods can use to try to raise their own low self esteem. 

Horse shopping is ridiculously hard. I nearly got killed shopping for a "kid's horse" for my DH. Gaited horses are even harder, I think, because (my theory...) if they don't buck someone off, they are considered " trained", so they never really get training.


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## jaydee

I agree - you're not too big to ride and your weight is a far far cry from being even remotely obese
The buckskin isn't so much too small in height - she's too lightweight and narrow in build
If she's younger than they say she is then she might grow more and thicken up - but she still doesn't sound like a good trail horse if she's spooky at stuff around the barn
This is a friend of mine on her 14 hand New Forest (he might even be 13.3) - she's 5ft 4 and yet still looks a good fit on him, the difference being he's a sturdier built pony
*NOTE*: This photo is NOT posted for critique


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## ManicMini

The vet will definitely be brought out no matter who I purchase. I worry a lot about potential soundness issues with horses that i'm looking at, to the point i'm driving myself crazy. I've also bounced back and forth about buying an individual horse from these sellers to point that everyone around me is screaming, "Just buy a darned horse!" 

I don't think anyone understands how committed i'll be to the right horse. I hate shopping in general but I severely underestimated the beast that horse buying is. Which is probably why horse buying has turned into more of a chore than an exciting experience. 

I'm seeing a type of horse that these people are breeding as well and unfortunately it's not well-suited to carry heavier people. I'm seeing a lot of weedy walkers in general. They seem to have toothpick legs, tiny hooves, slender bodies and big anvil-like heads. I'm starting to think i've focused too much on breed than an individual horse. 

While i'd love to purchase the buckskin, I don't want to wait another year or longer to see if she'll thicken up. I'm leaning towards purchasing the chocolate and white mare. If only because she's older, has actual trail experience and a darling on the ground. I hate feeling pressured to purchase a horse but I think i'm putting that pressure more on myself than anyone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee

I don't know the TWH breed at all - the coloured mare has better bone in her legs for sure, maybe the pic is taken at an odd angle because she looks too long in the leg and very short in the neck in it. So saying, you don't want a show horse and if she's sound and sensible & good to ride on the trails then she could work well for you
If you go back to your search then maybe a smaller but well built QH or something with draft blood that wasn't too tall - there's a lot of mustangs like that about - would be better?


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## DraftyAiresMum

I think with some good farrier work and some work building correct muscling, that second mare (who is a faded black, BTW) would be a good choice. Nothing in her conformation screams "Run away" and she looks to be closer to the height the sellers have for her.

For comparison, this is me on my old gelding. He's a narrow, 14.2hh (sticked him myself) Arab/NSH gelding. I'm 5'7" with long legs and weighed about 170lbs in this pics.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greentree

That is quite a hairdo, drafty aires!

Manicmini, are these people breeding these horses, or are they brokers?


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## ManicMini

Just for the record, I'm not planning on showing any horse I buy. Not unless it was a local fun show. The most I plan to do with a horse other than trails might be sporadic lessons. I agree about the picture being taken at an odd angle, I thought she looked like a fairly average looking horse when I saw her in person. 

Good grief Drafty, now i'm really not sure on the buckskin's height if that horse is 14.2! All I know for sure is that I squished some poor pony  As far as the colored mare's hooves go, they are quite scary looking. I do hope that it is something that is would be corrected with a good farrier's help. 

Looking at the colored mare, I think i'm just lost as to what muscles need to be improved and how to go about doing that. I'm used to looking at pasture puffs and that is what she currently is. With all these factors, these people should pay me to take her...i'm not sure what their goal in breeding these horses is. Probably color if I had to guess._Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

ManicMini said:


> Just for the record, I'm not planning on showing any horse I buy. Not unless it was a local fun show. The most I plan to do with a horse other than trails might be sporadic lessons. I agree about the picture being taken at an odd angle, I thought she looked like a fairly average looking horse when I saw her in person.
> 
> Good grief Drafty, now i'm really not sure on the buckskin's height if that horse is 14.2! All I know for sure is that I squished some poor pony  As far as the colored mare's hooves go, they are quite scary looking. I do hope that it is something that is would be corrected with a good farrier's help.
> 
> Looking at the colored mare, I think i'm just lost as to what muscles need to be improved and how to go about doing that. I'm used to looking at pasture puffs and that is what she currently is. With all these factors, these people should pay me to take her...i'm not sure what their goal in breeding these horses is. Probably color if I had to guess._Posted via Mobile Device_


Manic, she just needs muscle overall. I've noticed that TWH don't seem to hold muscle tone well unless they're in work. Maybe that's just the ones I've known, but the only ones I've seen with good muscle tone are ones that are worked regularly. Not any specific kind of work, just ridden on a regular basis.



greentree said:


> That is quite a hairdo, drafty aires!


He was shaking his head just as my friend snapped the pic. :lol:


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## Yogiwick

Is it bad that the "I squished a poor pony!" is making me laugh?

Really OP you don't even qualify as "heavier people" and the poor poor pony is clearly not overly upset.

As I said before, there are plenty of gaited horses/breeds/breeders, and also plenty of non gaiteds that are also pretty darn smooth.

I think you are being overly selective and are ending up with the ones you don't want for it. Have a more open mind and the one you want will appear! If someone says "super smooth gaited 14hh grade with a nice easy jog" go check him out! You're so busy looking for exactly what you want you can't see the forest for the trees methinks. Also, I feel you can generally tell before getting there what sort of barn to expect and if not definitely as soon as you've seen the place. And, as you learned, do NOT put down a non refundable deposit unless you're positive.

This mare sounds a lot more reasonable.


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## ManicMini

Yogiwick are you sure you're not in cahoots with my boyfriend? Because he said the same thing! "You're too picky, noo you're not too big for her, she's too small for you. I'm pretty sure she's not the only buckskin in the world" etc. Don't tell him but he was right just as you are  

I've been looking at different horses in the immediate area and have kicked myself more than once. There were more than enough suitable mounts with the structure I would have been happy and comfortable riding. I definitely have been color blind and too concerned about the breed than the individual horse. What an expensive, hard lesson learned!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

Manic, my favorite color is buckskin. Exactly the shade of the first filly you posted, to be precise. So far I've had a bay and a black/white pinto, both of which everyone has gushed over how beautiful they are...which I agree with 100% and I love my boys (don't own the bay anymore, but still love him nonetheless). They wouldn't have been my first choice, but they have been perfect for me. When asked how I always end up with the "pretty horses," my answer is "I got lucky." 

My point is, no good horse is a bad color. Yes, we like what we like and we want what we want...and in a perfect world, with the amount we spend on our horses, we would be able to get exactly what we want. But, if we open ourselves up to other options, a whole new world of possibilities opens up to us and we may just find the perfect horse for us, regardless of its color. 

I couldn't imagine my life without my big black and white boy. He is perfect for me in every way. Do I love him less because he is black and white? Nope. Would I love him more if he was a buckskin? Not possible, so not a chance.

Not trying to tell you what to do and I'm sorry you had to learn such an expensive lesson.

FWIW, my gelding is a Percheron/paint cross and is SUPER smooth. Like "can't post to his trot because there's no movement to post to" smooth. So it's entirely possible to find smooth, non-gaited horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

ManicMini said:


> Yogiwick are you sure you're not in cahoots with my boyfriend? Because he said the same thing! "You're too picky, noo you're not too big for her, she's too small for you. I'm pretty sure she's not the only buckskin in the world" etc. Don't tell him but he was right just as you are
> 
> I've been looking at different horses in the immediate area and have kicked myself more than once. There were more than enough suitable mounts with the structure I would have been happy and comfortable riding. I definitely have been color blind and too concerned about the breed than the individual horse. What an expensive, hard lesson learned!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Glad you had a realization. We have all been there so no worries 

I have a brown MFT, pinto Icelandic, grey Arab. I really know minimal about gaited horses. I just picked the individuals that worked for me. Honestly as someone who has plenty of experience with "colorful" horses it really doesn't matter to me, I just see the horse for who they are and no good horse is a bad color. Also, you can be a pretty color and still an ugly horse!!

Sounds like your only "real" dealbreaker here needs to be a smooth horse. That does not _necessarily_ even mean gaited horse, and if it does there are plenty of different breeds of that. Imo I am not a fan of walkers as they are becoming more and more like the type this breeder offers. If you find a good one go for it but being stuck on a breed, especially one of those "hard to find a good one" breeds can be really tough.

You are buying for yourself remember. Just get a horse you LIKE.

ETA- the smoothest horse I have ever ridden was a Morgan. He was so smooth I wasn't sure I liked it lol (I'm an English rider). He was just as comfortable as either of my gaited horses and had less movement. (He was a buckskin)


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## jaydee

You could ride sitting trot on our clyde x arab and feel super comfortable - you just have to try the horse first to see if it moves the way you want it too before deciding. 
Its not a priority for me in a trail horse though - being sensible, stoic and brave come higher up the list


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## Yogiwick

jaydee- the OP has some serious back issues so it sounds like the horse is either very smooth or she won't own one.

Obviously there are other things that are on the priority list but this is one thing the OP really does need.

Though I agree that some non gaited horses are just as smooth. It will just require a little more effort on the OPs part to make sure to find that out (if possible) beforehand.


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## phantomhorse13

Have you ridden the black and white mare? I think that would be the first thing to do, to see how you feel on her.

Like non-gaited horses, every animal has its own way of going.. just because it's a Walker does not mean its going to have the same quality of gait from one individual to the next. And depending on your injury, one type of gaited horse may be better than another, as the way a Walker travels is not how a MFT travels is not how a Paso travels.


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## paintedpastures

I prefer the conformation of the Buckskin filly to the other one posted:wink:. The buckskin is small looking maybe 14hh tops, but the few TWH i've seen are gangly as youngsters & are slow to mature. I'm Sure That filly will fill out alot more & get more height to her. The other one looks roach backed & scary looking front feet:eek_color:....... After what you have said about them & how they look in pics neither really are very ideal  but you are the one that has to decide if you want to pursue them or count your losses & move on. I suggest if you do any more horse shopping take along someone with good eye for horses to help you:riding:.


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## ManicMini

I have not ridden the black and white mare yet. I'm not intending to either. After spending most of the day with a lot of different horses it made me start thinking. Mainly about how I liked certain horses for their personality and overall suitability for my skill level as well as their structure. After some much needed and sound advice, I honestly feel like the original horses I first asked about just aren't the right fit for me. 

I have a few different, very painful spine issues due to a bad hand dealt in the genetics department. It's worsened with age and it bothers me that i'm a young adult who at some times can't bend down to pick something up from a bottom shelf. At least not without moving with all the speed, grace and pain of an arthritic 75 year old. That is why I was so hung up on breed and gaits. It also doesn't help that up until recently, TWH is all i've had for riding experience.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KAB

I would suggest trying a Paso Fino.Very smooth,come in all colors and sizes and the family Paso has a great temperment.Just don't get a show horse.Google them and see if there are any farms around you.


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## Yogiwick

ManicMini said:


> I have not ridden the black and white mare yet. I'm not intending to either. After spending most of the day with a lot of different horses it made me start thinking. Mainly about how I liked certain horses for their personality and overall suitability for my skill level as well as their structure. After some much needed and sound advice, I honestly feel like the original horses I first asked about just aren't the right fit for me.
> 
> I have a few different, very painful spine issues due to a bad hand dealt in the genetics department. It's worsened with age and it bothers me that i'm a young adult who at some times can't bend down to pick something up from a bottom shelf. At least not without moving with all the speed, grace and pain of an arthritic 75 year old. That is why I was *so hung up on breed and gaits*. It also doesn't help that up until recently, TWH is all i've had for riding experience.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The second part is valid. The first part is not except in the sense that it goes with the second. You can definitely have a breed preference, most people do (I can understand it must be hard when that's all you've ridden!) but you can't let it cloud your mind. As said, there are plenty of smooth non TWH's out there, including plenty of other gaited breeds! 

Has riding ever been a problem for you? I'm just wondering since it sounds like you have had limited experience if a non gaited horses of average smoothness (obviously not a super rough one or one that requires posting) would even be an issue. Or in reverse are you going to be able to comfortably ride even the smoothest horse? (Not that riding is a requirement for ownership, I am sure you have thought that part through just wanted to mention it)

I think it's for the best you want to look elsewhere. Even if it is another TWH, that's not the part that matters, it just sounds like overall the horses that that seller has just aren't a good match. Do NOT settle!!! Most important part! You MUST be happy about the horse, this is exciting remember?! You are doing it because you WANT to! I think now that you are spending time with other horses and realizing how much better suited they are it will help. The lousy part of buying is it can take awhile before a horse clicks so don't be in a rush and try not to get frustrated.

You DO want a focus, just not blinders!

So:
very smooth gaited, preferably a "gaited horse". (You can have a preference for TWH's but don't put this on your list! Your mind will take care of that on it's own!) (If not gaited make sure the seller can guarantee this before you bother driving to try him/her!)
average or better conformation, any faults not to effect soundness
14-15hh and average or heavier build, if smaller a good weight carrier (stocky) (you can choose to buy a leaner horse obviously but I would recommend a taller one and still a weight carrier, many leaner horses just become wimpy and poorly bred though obviously not always the case, I just don't think this is as good a match for you, though ultimately as long as you are both happy that is that)
age range (I like to break it down with training too, aka either a lightly trained 4 year old or if older I want it finished)
(training)
gender if preferred (are you stuck on mares or just a coincidence?)
If you are looking to trail ride and just have a nice backyard horse (?) good qualities: sane, sound, easy keeper, preferably has experience with what you want or at least a good mindset for it.
Then just things you may view as big pluses: barefoot, used to run-in situation, easy in a herd setting, or even breed/color preferences.
Then health. Everything good? Passes vet check? If any issues what exactly are they/how serious/what does the vet say about suitability?
Then ultimately: How much do you personally like AND click with that horse? Are you thrilled to of found him/her? Can't wait to get the horse home?

Just a general list off the top of my head but hopefully it helps. I definitely go by impressions of a place too. I don't respond to adds that seem poor quality unless I am interested in a rescue type or love love the horse (and again am willing to give some extra tlc and training).

Sort of like when I sell my sheep, I am picky and if you answer my add with "you have sheeps?!" I will not respond. If you answer with a nice well written little blurb about your family/set up/reasons you want my sheep. I will answer and quite likely sell to you as well. It works the same when buying (for me at least, but I think it will help any buyer that truly cares).

If I love the horse I may be willing to compromise a little on things, OR you will just find a horse you don't need to compromise on.

Do keep us posted. It's not bad to go with general impressions. If the horse looks clean and cared for that DOES mean something. That is why I was a little iffy from the previous seller, neither horse says "wow that's a nice horse" even if they may be with some attention.


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## Yogiwick

I can already see several worth looking into.

Great tri-Colored Family Trail Horse (14 and price is a little high imo, but could probably negotiate)

Good Gaited Trail Horse, Easy to Ride (Doesn't say much)


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## ManicMini

well said Yogiwick but the problem with the first horse is she is from the same barn the horses I posted about! They are also not willing to negotiate the prices. 

The other horse is more like what i'm looking for. I passed on a very nice spotted saddle horse today. He was perfect as far as build and height go. Problem was I found out he's proud cut and has the most jackhammer of a gait.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

I like that second mare Yogi posted. She's cute.

Gotta be careful when someone says "spotted saddle horse," though. A lot of times people call their colored saddlebreds "spotted saddle horses" and they are notorious for not being a smooth ride.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paintedpastures

here are 2 from same seller :cowboy: Handsome Trail Horse Broke for Anyone Guaranteed | Buy this Horse at Equine.com

Flashy Experienced Trail Horse | Buy this Horse at Equine.com


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## ManicMini

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

paintedpastures said:


> here are 2 from same seller :cowboy: Handsome Trail Horse Broke for Anyone Guaranteed | Buy this Horse at Equine.com
> 
> Flashy Experienced Trail Horse | Buy this Horse at Equine.com


I really like that chestnut! Nice-looking horse!


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## mslady254

My friend here in Middle Tn (Lebanon) has a part Arab, gaited gelding who is an absolute sweetheart. He is stocky built, I'd guess him to be 14.? (lol), more than pony sized, but not tall. She is just now *talking* about finding him a new home since her son's interest long ago fizzled out and she has 3 horses,,,not enough time to work with all of them. I'm just about your height and weight, and Baucus is just about the same size as Sonny in my Avatar. (I was a little bit lighter weight in the pic than now) 
If you're interested and if it's worth the drive to you, PM me and I'll talk to her.I have no idea how much she would want for him. I do know she is a very good, honest person and has had him since he was 2. I can't remember how old he is now,,but I've known him for 5 years.

Fay


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## mslady254

P.S. Baucus is built very much like my Sonny. You are welcome to look at my 'album' on here. I can't remember if his feet are as big as Sonny's, but I know she takes excellent care of her horses-vet-feet trimmed, etc. 
I may be speaking out of turn,,,dont' know for sure she is ready to sell...LOL..but it seemed like a good fit to me.

Fay


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## ManicMini

To everyone who steered me clear from inappropriate horses and saved me from a lot of heartache and wasted money, I must say that I owe you a lot. It's never easy hearing that you're too heavy to ride what should have been your dream horse. Not at all. It's not easy on your self-esteem or your conscious but I'm glad you did. 

Yesterday, I finally found my horse. I had been looking at his ad and passing over it for over three weeks. He didn't look like anything special to me so I never replied. For kicks and giggles I decided to ask about him, the more I found out the more excited I got. This horse was described as the family/neighborhood lawn mower/babysitter horse.

They weren't lying because when I got there he was in a makeshift pen mowing the grass in between two house's yards! When I walked over to him he popped his head up, nickered at me and walked right up to say hi. He allowed me to check his teeth, pick up all of his feet and touch him without being the slightest bit concerned. That's when the owners asked if I wanted to ride him. They didn't have a saddle but had a bridle and said he'd ride bareback. I was nervous as I hadn't rode bareback in over 10 years.

The horse had no problem taking the bit and I had my boyfriend hop on him first. He took the horse down the road and the only problem I saw was that he wanted to eat more than workout. When it was my turn he allowed me to hang off of him while hauling myself onto his back. I got situated and started off and oh my, is he smooth. No flashy action but if I wasn't already sold on his temperament, I was sold on his gait. 

I am now the proud owner of a 10 year old, 14.something hands, severely sun-bleached mud brown colored "Racking Horse" who came with the name Dollar.


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## jaydee

Good luck with the horse and thank you for listening to the advice given and taking it.
I hope you'll keep us updated on your progress with Dollar


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## Drifting

He is adorable. Are you going to keep that name? I like it! He has a sweet face.


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## phantomhorse13

Congrats! Look forward to hearing about all your future adventures.


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## DraftyAiresMum

He's adorable!!

He's black, but severely sun-bleached. Could be a smokey black, but I don't think so. Adding paprika to his diet may help with that sun-bleaching a bit.

So glad he's everything you wanted! He sounds amazing and just perfect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mslady254

fabulous! congrats and thanks for the pic. Cute boy!

Fay


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## greentree

Oh, yay!!! Do you live in the shadow ridge stables area? If you do, you are not too far from me. Maybe we could ride together somewhere!

I am so glad you left that place and found a horse! They called themselves " breeders", but had a LOT of unregistered horses with known parents......NOT what I call a breeder! Their colts looked, um, weedy....


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## ManicMini

Thank you all for the well wishes! I'm over the moon and surprised I didn't explode with excitement when I had the bill of sale in my hand. It was hard to act normal because I felt like the little girls you see on YouTube being surprised with a birthday or Christmas horse.

I'm not keeping the name Dollar. He's worth more than that to me and it doesn't sound right to me. I've named him Dio, it's short and rolls of the tongue easily. Ronnie James Dio may or may not have something to do with it too lol. 

I'll definitely keep y'all updated with how we're doing because he's starting a diet with me. We're both rather plump for our frames. His previous diet probably has a lot to do with his coat being less than spectacular too. 

I don't live in the immediate area of the stables but maybe 45mins away. If it ever cools off, i'd love to take a ride out on the trails! All I have to say about the breeders is while they were accommodating with nice facilities, their horses just weren't a great fit for me. Maybe for other people but I just prefer a stout horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DraftyAiresMum

Manic, you'll also find that you can have all sorts of fun with tack colors with a black horse. :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

ManicMini said:


> well said Yogiwick but the problem with the first horse is she is from the same barn the horses I posted about! They are also not willing to negotiate the prices.
> 
> The other horse is more like what i'm looking for. I passed on a very nice spotted saddle horse today. He was perfect as far as build and height go. Problem was I found out he's proud cut and has the most jackhammer of a gait.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha, she looks much nicer. At least better cared for. Up to you if the price is worth it, though the lack of negotiating is a turn off when someone's overpriced.

I know there is always an "if" isn't there!! Minor detail like proud cut. Unfortunately you really can't tell gait for sure without riding them. I think that will be the tougher part, esp if you consider a non gaited breed.


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## Yogiwick

ManicMini said:


> To everyone who steered me clear from inappropriate horses and saved me from a lot of heartache and wasted money, I must say that I owe you a lot. It's never easy hearing that you're too heavy to ride what should have been your dream horse. Not at all. It's not easy on your self-esteem or your conscious but I'm glad you did.
> 
> Yesterday, I finally found my horse. I had been looking at his ad and passing over it for over three weeks. He didn't look like anything special to me so I never replied. For kicks and giggles I decided to ask about him, the more I found out the more excited I got. This horse was described as the family/neighborhood lawn mower/babysitter horse.
> 
> They weren't lying because when I got there he was in a makeshift pen mowing the grass in between two house's yards! When I walked over to him he popped his head up, nickered at me and walked right up to say hi. He allowed me to check his teeth, pick up all of his feet and touch him without being the slightest bit concerned. That's when the owners asked if I wanted to ride him. They didn't have a saddle but had a bridle and said he'd ride bareback. I was nervous as I hadn't rode bareback in over 10 years.
> 
> The horse had no problem taking the bit and I had my boyfriend hop on him first. He took the horse down the road and the only problem I saw was that he wanted to eat more than workout. When it was my turn he allowed me to hang off of him while hauling myself onto his back. I got situated and started off and oh my, is he smooth. No flashy action but if I wasn't already sold on his temperament, I was sold on his gait.
> 
> I am now the proud owner of a 10 year old, 14.something hands, severely sun-bleached mud brown colored "Racking Horse" who came with the name Dollar.
> View attachment 659722


FYI, what you think is your dreamhorse is often not your dreamhorse. See what I said?? You may love buckskins but don't be so set on it.

My Arab is my heart horse. I love that guy and he is very bonded to me. Quite honestly when I first saw him I was unimpressed, it was really my mother who pushed me. He blossomed with TLC and let his personality out. I think it's the ones you pass over because they're just "blah" that surprise you. I can tell you anyone who met/saw my Arab nowadays would not see the same horse.

I'm really not a "squeee" person but I really had a "SQUUEEEEE!!!!!" moment when I saw your update. I am SO SO happy for you! :loveshower: and proud of you too. Maybe someday you'll have your "dream horse" but for now you found your "heart horse". I told you you'd find him!! I honestly didn't think it would be so fast lol. Now you get the excitement as opposed to stress lol. Feel free to be estatic!

I am THRILLED!!

(and stop with this weight thing, you may have a bit to lose for your optimal weight- and trust me we all do!!, but you are perfectly within a normal healthy range, do NOT get self conscious about that, you were NOT the problem in this search! Good luck with your weight loss goals (having a companion helps.. and instead of "SOFA" it's "OFA"-owner forced activity lol. Good for both of you). We should all strive to be optimal! I know I have some work to do!)


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## Celeste

Since when was 150 pounds too fat to ride a horse?


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## Drifting

Psst, we need.. more.. pictures.


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## ManicMini

Yogiwick you were so right about and i'm really glad I took your advice along with everyone else's! Dio is such a gentleman on the ground and that is just exactly what I wanted. He's a little spoiled undersaddle but only because he's fat and wants to eat all the grass but that's something I can work with. 

As far as getting fit goes, I haltered him last night and I lead him on a hike up a long, steep hill last night. When we reached the top I lunged him for a few minutes before I released him to go down the hill at his own pace. Besides losing weight Dio also needs to build a topline desperately. The internet had so many different opinions on how to go about it that I ended up frustrated during my research. I ended up checking out a book from the library called "101 Ground Training Exercises" by Cherry Hill. It looked like it had some cool ideas when I flipped through it. 

Now the only thing that is interfering with my horse plans and goals right now is the heat. According to my weather app due to the high heat and humidity, the temperature is getting as high as 107F! I have been out there with him around 10-11pm at the coolest part of our day. I didn't factor in how hard it would be to put a black bridle on a black horse in the dark and struggled for a good 10mins. Luckily,my bf saw my struggle and put his car's headlights towards the pasture. Once Dio was all tacked up, I hopped on and set off for a slow ride around the yard. 

One thing to know about Dio is he has been spoiled rotten. To the core. I took him to an arena two days ago and when he realized I wouldn't let him stop to eat grass he threw a tantrum. His tantrums aren't as bad as they could be but I hope they don't get any worse. His tantrum consisted of bolting while running sideways. Which was actually kind of an odd experience. I didn't get off, I turned him in circles until he finally realized he was making more work for himself. Then a little later he tried letting out some baby bucks when I wouldn't let him eat the grass. I stuck those and then we promptly set off and did some figure 8's and kept those feet moving. 

That night he threw his tantrums I was also riding him in a halter. Which was fine according to his last owners. Obviously they were wrong. So last night I had a snaffle bit in his mouth and he responded much better. So much better! Now he did try to eat grass while I was wanting to go forward but I didn't allow it. Once Dio realized this he started acting like he was going to buck and I don't know how to describe what he did. It looked like he was tap dancing with his back legs while not moving forward. I gave him a stern cue to move forward and we didn't have another problem for the rest of our ride.
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## Yogiwick

Sounds like you will be just fine. He just isn't used to listing to anyone other then himself but you are doing everything right and he's responding. Eventually he will stop all together.

It's good practice for both of you.

I don't think the halter is the issue, just the food, but would stick with a bit for now.

Depends on what your goals are for topline. Basically you want him using and strengthening his back. A lot of gaited horses do not move that way naturally. Personally I wouldn't be concerned about that unless there is an issue.


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## Celeste

I would be sure that he is not actually hungry before you ride him and then insist that he does not stop to eat. It probably won't take all that long to straighten him out.


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