# Is this ok?



## Alister (Dec 4, 2011)

Let me start by saying I know practically nothing about horse care. Occasionally, I drive by a group of horses whose mains and tails are constantly tangled in burrs (from weeds). I've been driving this particular route regularly for a few years, and the burs are there across all seasons. The burrs in particular are common for the area. My dogs sometimes get them and I find that they need to be removed immediately or else they become so entangled that it interferes with movement or contorts their tails in unnatural ways. I'm concerned that the constant presence of burrs on the horses is evidence of a lack of regular grooming, which may be evidence of neglect and possibly abuse. Today, I was driving by once again and had my camera in the car so I stopped to take some pictures. I know these allegations are serious and many people may object to "sticking my nose" in other people's business. So, I am posting here to learn if this kind of thing is generally considered acceptable to people who know things about horse care (i.e., this community). Is this ok?


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Horses are in good flesh and look healthy. They need their manes and tails shaved off, and those burrs probably are uncomfortable, irritating, and unsanitary, but no, that does not constitute abuse. Perhaps the owners are elderly and are unable to get out in the pasture and groom them.


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

It's also amazing, how fast those burrs can accumulate in a horse's hair. A lot of times if you have a lower quality hay (which many have had to resort to lately, what with the prices being so high in some areas) that happens to have burrs in it. It's possible that the owner _is_ pulling them out, but they just keep coming back. They're a complete pain to get out without ripping too much hair, and it can take hours- only to have the horses come back in the next day with the same amount in their hair as before! Very frustrating.

I'd say as long as the animals are looking healthy otherwise (good feet/weight) there isn't too much to worry about.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

As Bubba stated, the horses appear to be healthy and are at a good weight.

I have a friend who has burrs like that in her horses' pastures. I've personally watched her spend _hours_ getting them out of her 3 horses' manes and tails, and within a day or two it looks like she never touched them.

No, it's considered neither neglect nor abuse to not groom your animals. If it were, I'd have been in jail long before now. I try not mess with my horses too much in the winter, except to fluff up their coats if they get matted.

Neglect and abuse are based on not providing proper food, water and medical/hoof care. Burrs in their manes and tails are neither.


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## Alister (Dec 4, 2011)

Thank you for your quick and informative replies! I appreciate it.


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

"No, it's considered neither neglect nor abuse to not groom your animals."

Ever seen one of those pathetic little dogs that when it gets shaved the matted hair and feces and urine literally comes off them like a suit of armor? Yeah... that's neglect and/or abuse...


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

arrowsaway said:


> "No, it's considered neither neglect nor abuse to not groom your animals."
> 
> Ever seen one of those pathetic little dogs that when it gets shaved the matted hair and feces and urine literally comes off them like a suit of armor? Yeah... that's neglect and/or abuse...



I have to agree with the cats and dogs, however unless in a stable, a horse doesn't tend to lie in its own business unless its a pillow 

Horses are different in that sense, and the pictures show that they're in good condition. They may have slight discomfort, but they look like they've been turned out au natural for winter. So messing around with coats, burrs and rugging up is going to cause more problems, as you'll strip the oils out of the coats of the horses they need to keep warm and dry.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

arrowsaway said:


> Ever seen one of those pathetic little dogs that when it gets shaved the matted hair and feces and urine literally comes off them like a suit of armor? Yeah... that's neglect and/or abuse...


Yes, but we're talking about _horses_, not long haired dogs. We're also talking about burrs in their manes and tails, not long_ body_ hair matted with fecal matter.

Apples and oranges.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I guess I'm the only one appalled by the burrs. I would be pretty upset if I saw that. Yes, they look to be at a good weight, but gee, the only way to get those horses de-burred would be to shave them! 

I am not the type to stick my nose into anyone's business. I don't even turn in loose dogs (because the humane society up here tends to euthanize them). So I don't know if I would talk to the owners, but I would sure hope someone would. Maybe they can't keep up with the burrs. But I don't think the horses should be left like that either. What a nightmare.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

I agreed, I was a little "put off" by those pictures but yet, we don't know anything about these horses. They could perhaps be horses that aren't used to being handled, which would mean that it might be safer for them and their owner, not to mess with trying to get the burs out. I know this sounds awful, but could be the case.

It could be the burs keep coming back, or maybe the owner is currently ill or otherwise unable to take care of them immediately, but normally does take good care of their horses. Because they seem otherwise healthy, I would probably just keep an eye on them.

Look for things like overgrown, strangely formed hooves, and the horses started to look thin or have wounds or sores that seem to not be cared for. If this starts happening, then I might speak up or possibly maybe knock on their door and ask if they need help grooming or caring for them, etc.


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

agreed we're talking about horses here.
however, the word chosen was "animals".
I was merely pointing out the difference in what is okay between species... the idea should not be generalized.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> I guess I'm the only one appalled by the burrs. I would be pretty upset if I saw that. Yes, they look to be at a good weight, but gee, the only way to get those horses de-burred would be to shave them!
> 
> I am not the type to stick my nose into anyone's business. I don't even turn in loose dogs (because the humane society up here tends to euthanize them). So I don't know if I would talk to the owners, but I would sure hope someone would. Maybe they can't keep up with the burrs. But I don't think the horses should be left like that either. What a nightmare.


No you're not. Those burrs can get to the skin surface & cause itching & sores. The ones in the ears are the most worrisome as pieces can fall into the ear canal. 
They're not deadly but for sure not comfortable.
I'd like to thank the OP for taking the time to find answers & for the concern over these horses.

Regular grooming does not strip the coat of oils. It promotes blood circulation & helps to distribute oils evenly, both of which makes for a healthier coat & skin.


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## Arksly (Mar 13, 2010)

The burrs, although they may cause some irritation to the horse, aren't really signs of abuse. I've cleaned out the forelock and tail of both my horses and the very next day it looked like I hadn't done anything. Burrs are probably one of the hardest things to deal with.

As others have said you want to look for overgrown hooves or horses being very thin.

Here is an example of what a healthy hoof should look like:









Here's an example of an overgrown hoof:


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## SarahAnn (Oct 22, 2011)

My gelding purposely gets into the burs I think. I clean them out of his mane 2 times a day at the very minimum. He will walk over, get them in his mane, and immediately come to the gate- like "hey! I need to be brushed!" 

If something came up in my life, for example, I am having surgery next month, his mane and tail will probably have burs, and when I am healthy enough, I will probably spend hours with conditioner, MTG, a comb, and a horse. 

If someone noticed that my horses had burs and knocked on my door, I would be very grateful for a little help brushing them out after a surgery or an illness.

Maybe knocking is a good idea... The worst that can happen is they'll be rude and send you away. And who cares? Its not like you'll lose friends over it... And maybe, you'll get an opportunity to help the horses with the burs 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

That's not so much an overgrown hoof as a foundered hoof. Well, both. I've seen neglected hoof split and chip to this level and worse as often as I've seen the elf shoe develop.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Why not get rid of the burrs before they are on horses? When I bought my place I had them all over. I spent a lot of time getting rid of them but it's worth it.


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## Alister (Dec 4, 2011)

Arksly said:


> Here's an example of an overgrown hoof:





bubba13 said:


> That's not so much an overgrown hoof as a foundered hoof. Well, both. I've seen neglected hoof split and chip to this level and worse as often as I've seen the elf shoe develop.


Thank you for posting these! It sounds like this issue isn't as clear cut as I first thought so I'm going to check those hooves next time I get over there (I don't have any clear pictures of them).

Here's one more picture.


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## megm5441 (Mar 7, 2011)

The burrs are bad, but we don't know what the situation is. Should the OP be posting photos of someone else's horses on the internet? I wouldn't be happy if I found photos I didn't know about posted on the internet.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Anything within plain view of the public can be subject to having its picture taken.


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## redlover01 (Oct 31, 2011)

my horse gets burrs in his mane like crazy but abuse is not taking care of them such as feeding, shelter,water,hoof care,or any cuts or wounds not being treated ......or hitting them ...but whoever hits their animals for fun are sick sick people i love to take a good wack at them !


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I laughed at your pics. I've been fighting cockleburrs at my 5-acre place for several years now. I can say that every Fall I get some days where my horses have reached through the fence where the burr plants grow and come out of it beat up with burrs just like in your pictures!! ROFL
I made lemonade out of lemons bc it gave me the excuse to constantly groom my horse's manes and tails. Though I really like Showsheen, and I've tried Pink, my personal favorite to detangle is plain, old, corn oil. If you coat the burrs with it they literally slip right off.

It's like this--I do NOT use any herbicide to kill burrs. I pull them, mow them, bury them and burn them. I have 1/2 the burr problem this year, 2011, that I had in 2010, and it will be better in 2012. I will be cutting the ones left and they'll be burnt in the middle of my north pasture where my burn pile lives, so it's doubtful that those will reproduce.

Personally, unless you want to help de-weed the place or help the owner groom the horse's manes and tails, I think the horses look otherwise healthy and you'll just pXss off the owner by getting involved. JMHO!
BTW, did you know that the leaves of the cockleburr plant soothes skin irritations and burns? (Thanks to Reuben, my little Amish farrier!!)


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

They're in good weight, I see shelter in the background.... why do you need to take time out of your day to nosey around someone else's animals when there are no clear signs of abuse? There are SO many horses in shelters that need help if you have that much spare time to stop and nit pick someone elses' otherwise happy and healthy looking animals. 

Just saying, I'd be annoyed if someone was taking pictures of my horse and posting around on the internet looking for abuse because of burrs.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

My mare in the morning being turned out in the pasture










My mare in the afternoon when I caught her in again



















and after a bit of work



















No burrs don't have to be cut out, with patience you can groom them out

You can clean up horses but if you have a lot of burrs they will get infested again and can look gross in just a couple of hours.

Yes it would be more sensible to get rid of the burrs, but it's a long process, and if they come in the hay, or if they are through the fence on your neighbors land it is even worse.

Yes they irritate and are totally unpleasant for horse and handler, makes you wonder why they insist on keep doing it:twisted:

OP, good for you for asking, and welcome to the wonderful world of horse message boards, ask 10 people opinions, get at least 11 different answers.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

> ask 10 people opinions, get at least 11 different answers.


:lol: I think I like that saying.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I should add that in September, 2010 I got SO SICK of them that I cut my horse's forelocks off. (DH wasn't happy.) BTW, your horses can get burrs stuck in the hair behind their pasturns, too. Generally a good mane and tail comb gets them out, but be sure to check that area when you're pulling =b


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## jody111 (May 14, 2008)

LMFAO at those last before and after pics of your mare golden horse...

All I can say is IM SOOOO glad we dont get burrs like that over here - it would do my head in!!!

At first I was mortified when I looked at the pics - but after reading the posts of how they just get covered like that in a day - no I wouldnt say abuse at all - and they do all look happy and healthy in the pics...


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## Alister (Dec 4, 2011)

I caught a good look at their hooves and they look fine. Seems like a non-issue now. Again, thanks for everyone's input.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

Thank you for being concerned. There are so many people in this world that see wrong and don't speak up. It's nice to see that you are one of those people that asks questions and WILL speak up if your investigation shows that it's needed!


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## XxthehorseloverxX (Dec 19, 2011)

you are quite right to worry but i don't think it is cruel. They have got a shiny coat and look like they are the right weight.


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## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

My gelding when he was a 4months to 3years would get WORSE then that everyday. He'd go out with none in his mane/tail/forelock and come in with a clumped mess; I mean you could move all of his mane/tail by one piece. I tried everything! Braiding, oiling so they'd come out easier, etc but nothing worked. After a while I was actually going to roach his mane/forelock so I'd only have to deal with his tail. I moved to a new barn (different reason then the burrs) and they had no burrs (in the hay or anything). Yeah, it might be uncomfortable but its hard for someone to manage grooming one horse let alone more, with burrs and the only way to get them so they don't have any is getting hay with no burrs, chopping off the burr stocks (which you have to do often because they grow back fast), or move to a different location.

Here is my gelding after not even an hour of being out with a brand new halter on.


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## uii (Dec 26, 2011)

If the horses look good, (well fed, watered, loved, etc.) I wouldn't worry about it. But those burrs do look pretty bad! If it starts affecting the horses in some way, I agree a knock on the door would probably be best.


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