# Leasing for the first time--am I getting screwed?



## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

Hi all, I'm a new user, but I've been digging around a bit and I thought it was time for me to register and talk to some horsey people. Here's my situation: 

I've been taking western riding lessons for a year and I've talked it over with my instructor and he thinks I'm capable of doing a half-lease on a school horse. It would be for 3 days a week, plus the cost of lessons. My goals through leasing would to gain more confidence both in and out of the saddle-- nothing fancy, just some extra practice. 

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of research online, calling around to other barns in my area (Northern New Jersey) and it seems that the going price range for a half-lease is $200-$350. Which would be totally fine with me, except that I was informed to lease my lesson horse, it will run me $500/month + $140 in lessons. 

I don't know any other horsey people and I was hoping that my instructor would guide me in my best interest, but I can't help but to feel like I'm getting screwed. Are you able to negotiate the lease of a school horse or is that bad form? Help. 


Thanks!


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## EnglishGirl144 (Nov 16, 2011)

$500 is a lot, im 10 mins from jersey, for a 3 day lease (being able to ride 3 days a week) should be $200 plus lessons but it should be only 1 lesson a week. usually a half lease is half the board because your partially using the horse. hate to say it but $500 is much for a half lease, thats high for a full lease.
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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

I have half leased and full leased my WHOLE life until i finally finished grad school and was able to buy my own horse. You're in NY, and I ride out in NY every year so i'm pretty familiar with prices in the area. With that being said... a half lease should be: Half board, half shoes, half training, half vet care. Hopefully you're at a facility that is all inclusive where the feed is part of your board. Otherwise you're paying for half feed and even half shavings for stalls. Which can all add up very quickly. In my honest opinion, it is really great to half lease your trainers horses... and not some private person. But just make sure that before you sign any lease agreements, that you know exactly what you're paying for, how much these things normally cost (if you were paying for them in full), and whether or not it's really something you're ready to pay for. My BIGGEST suggestion is: Don't pay a lease fee. Ever!


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## Andieve (Aug 6, 2012)

We are going to be leasing for my daughter in a month and her terms are 3 riding days a week with one of the days being a lesson day. $265 for a month.

$500+ does seem high


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Around here, a half lease of a school horse would be about 300. Then a lesson a month add another 60. Some places just charge the 300 and include one lesson in that price.


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## Puddintat (Jul 24, 2010)

I pay $250/month for board and $65/6 weeks for shoes for Dancer. I charge my leasee $150. She technically has set days but truthfully she can pretty much ride when she wants to.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

Seems too high to me as well. I'm looking to part lease my TB(3-4 days/week riding) and I'm only asking 300


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Puddintat said:


> I pay $250/month for board and $65/6 weeks for shoes for Dancer. I charge my leasee $150. She technically has set days but truthfully she can pretty much ride when she wants to.


 
That's a sweet deal for her and you are pretty generous there. is it working out? is puddin liking the extra riding and benefitting from it?


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## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

So the general consensus seems to be that $500+the cost of lessons is too high for a half-lease on a school horse. Is it worth it to negotiate, or should I take my business elsewhere?


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## With Grace (Oct 20, 2011)

Sounds pretty high. I paid $265 for 3 three days, plus $200 a month for lessons. I also paid $50 per month for farrier services. I could take her to shows as well.


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

I don't think I'd try to negotiate, because I wouldn't want to insult someone who's supposed to be teaching me, and she may truly believe the price is fair. I'd just tell her you can't afford that much and that you're going to look around and see if you can find something in your price range, but you'd like to keep taking lessons with her until you do. If your lessons are $35/lesson, it would only cost you $420 every 4 weeks to take 3 lessons a week, which would be cheaper for you than the lease situation she has presented. Perhaps that would be a solution for you?


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I don't think I pay that much for owning my horse, maybe if you factor in the vet stuff. Barely... I don't get lessons or the benefit of a schoolmaster type horse either though. I like the previous suggestion and just letting your instructor know that that is more than you are willing to spend and you will keep looking, though you still want to take lessons.

ETA: Nope, did the math. Barring veterinary emergency costs, owning my guy comes in under $500/mo


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

I don't know your situation, but after a year of lessons do you really feel leasing is the best route? I was going to lease bc i was worried about how much i didnt know. Frankly, i pay less per month to own my own horse and ride on my terms. The initial cost was a hit to the wallet, but I only pay $85 a month for board and feed (pasture with hay) and $55 for shoes on a 6 week cycle. Unless you want to invest in a $10k horse, after a year of leasing that is a huge chunk of bye bye money. 

You could buy a horse and use your horse for riding lessons, which is better in my opinion. 

Something to think about if your only reason to not buy is your own intimidation. I found a great mentor and I've learned so much more and learned it faster on my own horse. 

My barn owner does wormings and has been a great help with cuts and scrapes and diet. If you find a good mentor and you buy some books you will do fine. We make it more complicated than it has to be. 

Good luck.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

$500 a month doesn't seem right . . . I live in NJ and I am currently looking to lease a new horse myself (I have been leasing different horse for four years), and the only time I paid that much was when I was with my old farm that was scamming me. This past summer I paid $400 for a full lease, with basically full access to the horse (who was a boarder, not a school horse).

Also, especially since this would be a half-lease, will the horse still be keep its same lesson schedule?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

It completely depends. Is this a show horse that you will be competing on for relatively large titles? Or is it a "putz around" schoolie? 
Show horses can be leased for big, big bucks, so of this horse will take you places, or if you're going to learn at a greater rate because the horse is advanced and has a show history, then I would say that $500/month isn't bad. If the horse is a schoolie that you're just doing basics on (for now) then perhaps it is a bit steep. 
Really though, if you can afford it and are seeing improvements and benefit, don't look at it as being "screwed over."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

AQHSam said:


> I don't know your situation, but after a year of lessons do you really feel leasing is the best route? I was going to lease bc i was worried about how much i didnt know. Frankly, i pay less per month to own my own horse and ride on my terms. The initial cost was a hit to the wallet, but I only pay $85 a month for board and feed (pasture with hay) and $55 for shoes on a 6 week cycle. Unless you want to invest in a $10k horse, after a year of leasing that is a huge chunk of bye bye money.
> 
> You could buy a horse and use your horse for riding lessons, which is better in my opinion.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

Whoops, sorry for that weird reply post. 

I won't be competing. This is just for me to practice my sitting trot and lope. It's just putzing around on a school horse for two extra days a week. I don't mean to sound bitter over it, but I feel like my barn owner is taking advantage of my naivete in the horse world. I'm trying to advocate for myself, but it's difficult to do. In my mind, the math just doesn't work out. I'm having a hard time reconciling $500/mo lease versus cost of lessons/board for the animal. It's as though 500 was just a nice round number. 

I know I could find a suitable horse nearer to my house for less money per month, but I feel like I'm severing a relationship with my trainer and my barn. I think I will just have to be up front and honest. $500 is exorbitant for an ornery school mare and business is business.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I don't think that there is anything wrong to ask the person to "break down" the lease fee, to give you an idea of what that includes. 

That way you can see how much half board etc is and what the actual "fee" your paying for the horse is. 

You have to also remember that this place is a business. Unless they have an excess of horses, by having someone lease out their riding school horse they are losing a certain amount of money (that horse would have made a certain amount in lessons). 

I wouldn't pay that much to lease a horse, but look around and see what you can find. If you want to lease just as a trial to ownership you could always do it for a month or two, see if you like and then look to buy.


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## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

Much thanks, everyone. I'll have to think on it some more and get over my anxiety about opening up the dialogue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

I know you don't want to severe relationships with them, but, um. Sorry to ask this but

WHY WOULD YOU WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE WHO WILL USE YOU!!??

If you bought a horse and kept it there you will probably still get used by this person but now at your horse's expense. 

52 lessons to learn how to hack seems extreme, even if you never saw this end of a horse before. I wonder if she is not even prolonging your lessons? It does sound as if you are being taken advantage of. 

How many other boarders and students are there? Are you the barn's cash cow??


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## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

Oh, jeez. You've got a good point. 

I'm by no means a perfect rider, but I've got enough skill to be safe on the ground and in the saddle. I've never really felt taken advantage of until they told me what it would cost to half-lease the school horse. I felt like I have a good relationship with my trainer and that he would help me navigate some of this stuff, but my gut reaction was "Oh, god, he's in on it, too!"

I'm taking a lesson and talking leases with a new barn today. Hopefully that will help me to stiffen my resolve and help me to move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Good luck at the new barn today! 

Reading this thread has me thinking I'm a pretty darn nice trainer/coach. I leased my Hanoverian mare to my favorite student this summer (she wanted to have something a bit more competitive for the hunter/jumper portion of her fair) I charged her a whopping $1 :lol: Her dollar bought her a very good fair week and a pretty purple reserve grand champion penant.


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## poundinghooves (Aug 5, 2010)

Personally, I think it's too much. Around here we can get leases for $100-$275 a month. Not including lessons or anything. I leased a barrel POA and all I had to pay for was her vaccinations (about $60) and hoof trims whenever she needed them. Plus they were already going to the shows so they'd just haul her right along with them for me. Where you live, how nice the facilities are and how nice of a horse it is all plays into it. So that may be normal for where you live.


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## Copperhead (Jun 27, 2012)

$500 for a half lease? She would want $1000 for a full lease.

I haven't been to a single barn where board was $1000 a month.

Its good to go to another barn and expand your options.


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## poundinghooves (Aug 5, 2010)

Copperhead's right- Look around at othe barns before doing anything.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Sadly, I know of several barns where board is $1000./month or more, but those are top show barns. 

However, we're also talking about Northern NJ, which some pretty pricey real estate so I imagine board is pretty expensive there 

So I guess my question for the OP is, what does board at this facility usually cost? I can see a half lease being more than half board, if it includes shoing and worming or other incidentals, but to justify a half lease fee of $500.; board should be in the $700 - 850. range. Is this schoolie wearing special shoes or on a lot of supplements? Getting injected with Adequan or Legend? 

Before you irrevocably sever your relationship with this trainer and barn, I would at least ask some questions. If anyone's offended by you asking why the fee is what it is, well, then, you do need to sever the relationship, so no harm done. 

But it's entirely possible that fee reasonably covers half or a little more than half of this horse's expenses. You won't know unless you ask.


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## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

These are all good questions. I will speak to the BO and ask him to break down the figure for me. Hopefully he's willing to work with me. 

As far as I can tell the mare is just a regular school horse--not a difficult keeper or any special treatment. If she is, and I'm unaware of it, I will ask if they can match me to a different horse or work with me on the price.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Puddintat (Jul 24, 2010)

Puddintat said:


> I pay $250/month for board and $65/6 weeks for shoes for Dancer. I charge my leasee $150. She technically has set days but truthfully she can pretty much ride when she wants to.



Its funny that you should ask, Tiny, because it isn't working out that great. My leasee has a tendency to not pay on time and I have to ask her for the money. This time it was on the 13th of the month. And she hasn't ridden in over 2 months. Also, she doesn't know as much about horses and tack as I had thought and gave me grief when I told her that her saddle doesn't fit Dancer anymore and she can't use it. She actually got ****y with me. The problem is that we've become friends and I do really like her. I'm to the point where I need to ask her if she intends to keep leasing or do I find someone else? I'm afraid I won't be able to find another person as flexible (she was really great until around June.) I really need someone to help pay for Dancer and keep him in shape.


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

$500 for a half lease is a lot. I definitely agree that you should talk to the BO and see what's up.


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## Snapple (Sep 4, 2012)

Puddintat said:


> Its funny that you should ask, Tiny, because it isn't working out that great. My leasee has a tendency to not pay on time and I have to ask her for the money. This time it was on the 13th of the month. And she hasn't ridden in over 2 months. Also, she doesn't know as much about horses and tack as I had thought and gave me grief when I told her that her saddle doesn't fit Dancer anymore and she can't use it. She actually got ****y with me. The problem is that we've become friends and I do really like her. I'm to the point where I need to ask her if she intends to keep leasing or do I find someone else? I'm afraid I won't be able to find another person as flexible (she was really great until around June.) I really need someone to help pay for Dancer and keep him in shape.



Wish you were closer Puddin! I'd love to half lease a horse on those terms.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

For $500 a month for a half lease I would be expecting an extraordinary horse showing at high levels. 

You said it would be $140 a month for lessons, I assume your lessons are $35 and you are taking one a week. 
How about upping that to two or three a week? You'd still come out ahead of leasing the horse that you would only have access to three days a week anyway.


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## mwebster (Sep 16, 2012)

I haven't called the BO for a breakdown of the fee, but I'm not even sure I want to at this point. My gut is saying this is not the right situation for me. I think it's time to move on. 

I went for a lesson in a different discipline yesterday at a new barn that's only 10 minutes from my house, and I was really pleased and impressed. I told the BO there that I was interested in doing a half-lease, but for the moment I just wanted to try out a few different horses and see how it goes. I had such a great experience that I've already booked my next three lessons. 

....Now to figure out how to break the news to my trainer that not only will I not be taking the lease, but that I won't be riding with him anymore. Yikes. :?


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I think leaving this barn is a good choice for you. It sounds fishy. 

But also, I think it is a good idea to try a new barn and new trainer because I think that the more you can get your hands on different situations, the better the educational experience. Everyone does things differently when it comes to horses. Therefore, I think it's very beneficial to learn from different trainers who have different methods.


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## KarrotKreek (Mar 31, 2012)

Ok, I'm going to play devil's advocate. For disclosure, I'm just a horse owner. Not a trainer or BO. So I'm not biased towards them. 

First, just about everyone here has responded that a 1/2 lease should only cost it's equivalent in board fees. Honestly... that wouldn't even cover half the expenses. Maybe some people are hard pressed for $$ and willing to use leasing to reduce their overhead cost. But in reality a lease should cover expenses for the following:

Board
Veterinary (std routine care)
Farrier
Tack
Supplements
Consumable equipment (items the horse goes through, ex treats, buckets, blankets, sheets)
The value of the horse (it's not worthless, or free, so some charge could be reasonable)

If you think about it, even at $500/mo I doubt the trainer is scamming you or making money. Probably breaking even on costs at best. 


Let's put it into perspective like a car. When you rent a car, you pay for the gas you use. This is the equivalent of covering the board %. But you also pay an additional daily fee to drive that car because you are putting wear & tear and miles on it. The longer the car is rented, the more it's value is reduced. While you are renting the car, it can't be rented out to anyone else on those days to generate additional income, only you can drive it. This is all factored into the daily rental rate.

Before you decide that you are being scammed, think about the true cost of what owning the horse would be. Perhaps you can get a cheaper deal elsewhere... but that doesn't mean your trainer is scamming you.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

mwebster said:


> ....Now to figure out how to break the news to my trainer that not only will I not be taking the lease, but that I won't be riding with him anymore. Yikes. :???:


I find conversations like that to be very uncomfortable. But if I were you, in this situation it would help me to think that she did this. It's not a situation that you created, it was her own doing. You are much better off leaving than staying and being nickeled and dimed at every opportunity. 






KarrotKreek said:


> If you think about it, even at $500/mo I doubt the trainer is scamming you or making money. Probably breaking even on costs at best.


I am not sure I agree. She is the BO, so boarding costs are rated at a profit for her to cover her work and costs. This isn't some top show barn, it's just a normal everyday barn. Her costs are basically just feed costs, hay and bedding - that's nowhere close to the cost of boarding. 

If it did come out at $500 a month, I'd expect that to be a full not partial lease.


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