# western bit questions



## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm afraid I don't quite understand the question. Are you asking when to transition between bits? I don't thik 5 is too young for a curb. I see the NRHA Derby horses in Curbs. Futurity horses in curbs. Mos tof mienshow futurity in a curb. I don't do a lot of derby stuff.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

If he has a good training foundation, transitioning to a curb should be no problem any time you want to do it. I usually have my horses into a curb within the first few weeks of training and they do fine with it. You will want to look for something with swivel shanks since he isn't solid with neck reining yet and they allow for direct reining too. Also, generally, the shorter the shanks are, the milder the bit is and it will be more forgiving for an accident instant of bad hands. I prefer something with a solid mouth and medium port just cause the solid mouth is much less confusing than say, a tom thumb, and the medium port gives enough tongue clearance without interfering with the roof of the mouth on most horses.

This is similar to my favorite bit for transitioning from snaffle to curb and all my horses seem to take to it well. Though what I have has much shorter shanks (about 6 inches).









Though since she is going to be showing in it, something a little flashier might be better. Maybe something similar to these.


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

Sorrelhorse, I am looking for advice on what type of curbs are good to start with.
smrobs - So I should look for solid mouth and shorter shanks, preferabley swivel. Thanks, that exactly the kind of info I was looking for.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Anyone who as asked that question before will remember that the bit I always use and advocate is one with a Billy Allen mouth piece. It allows one shank to swivel without effecting the other shank. In turn, each shank can swivel outward. The barrel in the center only allows a small amount of movement (the misnomer of a nutcracker). The bit I use has calvary style shanks that sweep back minimizing the length.

Personally, I only use two bits, either a single joined snaffle or this bit:


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

Thank you. Seeing pics is very helpful


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Oh, right then. I must have read the post wrong.

I have a curb very similar to smrobs' one. I don't have any pictures and can't really take any due to it being cold wet and rainy (And I don't want to walk out to the barn to get it  )

I have only started one colt without assistance from my trainer and that's what I started him in. He took to it like a bee to honey and I never had any problem with him.


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

This horse is such a good boy, I don't want to wreck him or freak him out with the wrong bit. Especially since I still consider my daughter a beginner, since her previous experience is on her been there/done that pony who is very forgiving of any mistakes.
Before we bought him, Twilight was previously being ridden by a 12 year old girl in a Kimberwick. They mainly did trail riding. Supposedly he was in the western show ring "a little bit" as a 3 year old with his original owner, but I don't know exactly what they did with him.


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## westonsma (May 19, 2009)

Always, always, always remember that a bit is just a tool. Don't be afraid to use to tool on your horse, learn how to use it correctly from someone knowledgeable, and your horse will be accepting.

You can find a medium port bit, but just make sure that it is jointed to the shanks. You don't want a stiff bar in his mouth, because this does not encourage flexion left and right, and your daughter will find herself getting more and more frustrated with him when trying to tip his nose to turn with a neckrein. This is what you should avoid:

http://www.equestriancollections.com/mmEQC/Images/items/PF00010R/PF00010R-a.jpg

see how it's solid from the mouthpiece to the shanks?

Look for a jointed bit like this:

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/image/EquestrianCollections/PF00019R-a?$oldimage$

Your horse is plenty old enough to transition from a snaffle. 

Snaffle bits are best for starting a horse, but something to remember, a snaffle carries a 1:1 ratio of pressure. One pound of pressure with your hands is one pound of pressure on the bit. If your horse is in a snaffle, the horse should hold and carry the bit in his mouth. What I mean by this is that the bit should be loose enough to have no contact in his mouth when you have no contact on the reins. It should leave no wrinkles in the corners of his mouth when the bit is in place. If there are wrinkles, there is already pressure on his mouth, and no way to measure how much. There could already be 5lbs of pressure on his mouth, so when you apply 1lb of pressure with your hands, it is moving up to 6lbs of pressure in his mouth. It is easier for your horse to distinguish the difference between no pressure and 1lb of pressure than it is for him to distinguish between 5lbs and 6lbs in his mouth, until he can distinguish 0:1 first, he most likely won't recognize 5:6 as a cue.

These ported bits, which, my husband moves a colt off a snaffle onto a high port correctional after 6 months, or 120 rides. When you put a ported bit, or any other solid bit in his mouth (that is not snaffle or broken) you want 2-3 wrinkles in the corner of the lips, so the headstall carries the bit, and not your horse's mouth. This allows the bit to stay in the same place, and not bounce around when your horse's tongue goes over and under it. It will place it correctly on the palet, and will be in the same place every time. The bit in the following picture is the one that I suggest.

http://www.horsetackinternational.com/images/IW117-robart-view-2.jpg

This bit not only encourages vertical flexion at the poll and neck, but also encourages lateral flexion left and right as well. Since your daughter will be showing western pleasure, her hand will need to be down at all times except backing. This bit will allow her to have control with a dropped and loose rein, and help your horse become more and more soft. Pretty soon, your daughter will be able to give minor cues, just a flick or twist of the wrist, and she will have your horse's ear. 

Just remember, the higher the port, the softer her hands will need to be. If your trainer is working on neckreining him, it may be an ok idea to head to your tack shop and talk to the salesperson there about a medium port with jointed shanks. Your trainer can get him accustomed to the switch, as well as teach your daughter how to use the bit. She can show her how it works in the horse's mouth, and what each movement of her hands encourages him to do. Since he's as broke and quiet as you say, there should be absolutely no problem with the switch. He will toss his head and play with it for a few days, but that's because he's trying to figure out what this new toy is! My husband will leave the horse to stand tied in a halter with the new bit in his mouth for an hour or two, two or three days in a row before he rides in it. (After standing tied, he pulls that bit, inserts the snaffle and continues riding) The horse probably will fight it, but that's only because he hasn't figured it out yet. He'll get it, and it'll really do great things for him!


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

This is my favorit bit. I ride all of my young horses on it. Both my 2 and 3 year old geldings Love it. You can get it with a copper roller. I think it's called a Colt Pelham Bit with a copper roller or something like that.


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

Silvera, would that bit be okay for him to show in?


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

Definetly. I show Storm (my 3 year old) in it all the time. The only thing is that because the horse is 5 and the bit is a shank bit you have to ride one handed. Once a horse reaches 5 then they have to be riden one handed regardless in western (I beleive, at least that's what it is here). I have even shown him in classes where you have to "drop" the bit for inspection and it went over great.


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

Hmmm. I'll have to check and make sure. I know that the rule for 4H (which is what we'll be doing) is that horses 5 and under can still be shown in a regular snaffle. He still falls into that category. I'm not sure if he can still be direct reined or not, even though he is under 6.


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

Yes it's defenitly good to check. Also check and see what it says about the bits, when you have to neck rein. Because I show Storm (3yr old) in a shank bit I have to show one handed regardless of age. It was the same last year, I rode him in the same bit. Depending on the judge though you may be able to get away with direct reining with this bit as some of them classify it as a transitional bit or something like that.


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

I checked into it. She will have to neck rein in the WP classes at the fair, regardless of what kind of bit. Twilight (that's the horse, not the kid lol) is doing pretty decent on neck reining fro an experienced rider, but my kiddo has a lot of work to do in the next 2 and a half months!


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

Good luck, and hope everything goes well for you. Also remember that even if she isn't 100% ready by the time you are showing it's just for fun. Next year when she has more time in the saddle (your daughter) then she will do 100% better then this time around.


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

That's what Im telling her. "This is your first year, think of it as a practice run!"


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm in a very similar situation. We just made the decision to lease my daughter's lesson horse for 4-H next year. He is a 19 year old, 1000 lb labrador and since he's a beginner to intermediate level horse, he's in a snaffle. 

I need to get him a new bit and the leader suggested a Tom Thumb bit, which my research led me to flinch...is it? I have an email in to the trainer/instructor/owner, but she's out on a trail ride and I starts a camp tomorrow so I may not hear from her for a few days. 

This is a softy and I'm putting an 8 year old (while reasonably experiences, still new to this bit) on him with a new bit so I want to go as easy as I can with him, and frankly, I have no exprience with bits.


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## artsyjenn (May 12, 2010)

I ended up trying a bit that someone gave me. French link mouthpiece, shorter shanks that curve towards the back. He did fine in it. BUT, then my daughter informed me that she prefers to ride english, so the whole western bit thing has been scrapped for now, and he's in a dee ring snaffle. I was glad, because I think that both she and the horse need more time before they are ready to neck rein together in a shanked bit.


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

The french link type mouth pieces (double broken), either with a roller or without, are great because they don't put pressure on the top of the mouth in a hard point. Tomb thumbs are good but they have a single break in them so can be a little harder on their mouths. If the horse is used to a single broken snaffle however you should have no problem transitioning to a tomb thumb. 

artsyjenn - I think you have made a good choice in sticking with english for a while until they both learn to neck rein. If you keep teaching the horse to neck rein then when/if your daughter decides to go western then they are already prepared. You can teach neck reining in a snaffle so you don't have to worry about changing bits all the time. I think the one you mentioned about getting is pretty good and you made a good choice with that one. 

Good luck with this year if your daughter shows


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## spence (Nov 8, 2009)

iridehorses said:


> Anyone who as asked that question before will remember that the bit I always use and advocate is one with a Billy Allen mouth piece. It allows one shank to swivel without effecting the other shank. In turn, each shank can swivel outward. The barrel in the center only allows a small amount of movement (the misnomer of a nutcracker). The bit I use has calvary style shanks that sweep back minimizing the length.
> 
> Personally, I only use two bits, either a single joined snaffle or this bit:
> 
> View attachment 31972


and what is this bit called? i'd love to know.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^ That is a cavalry shank bit with either a Billy Allen or Myler mouth.


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## RadHenry09 (Mar 22, 2009)

This seems to be a pretty common problem, as I am going through this as well.
My daughter(almost 11) wanted to do western in 4H but couldnt show in a snaffle, her horse neck reins at the walk but loses it at the trot. She decided to do english this year and we are still working on the neck reining as she still wants to do western. We havent changed his bit yet, I do like the billy allen bits but they are hard to find. I am not looking in the right place perhaps? Also looking for a full cheek with a copper roller. I know these bits are out there somewhere...just not in my towns tack store...


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