# Please be Gentle :) (but helpful)



## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Ok I have NEVER had any type of riding lessons. I learned by trial and error, books, internet, and whatever advice I could get from other riders. Also I JUST started riding in an english saddle. So I'm asking for some critique. I know it's a jumping saddle, but thats all I have. AANNNDDD yes, its a western pad. lol. The english pad I have is no good and I have yet to go buy a new one. :lol: I seem to have a problem keeping my toes in at the canter, and sometimes I can't move with her but it's been improving. Thank you for reading my novel. lol. Anndd here are my billion pics


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)




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## westerncowgurl (Jul 14, 2010)

its kind of hard to tell with pictures but u look pretty good  your horse is really pretty!


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## myhorsesonador (Jun 21, 2009)

I'm no good with critique but I know that you need to keep your thunbs up! I think your leg needs to be a bit farther back to but I could be wrong.


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## westerncowgurl (Jul 14, 2010)

i thought with english your thumbs are to the side?
im not sure i ride western


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

You have piano hands, thumbs should be on top. You also look as though you're balancing using the reins, sit back and sit deep.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

westerncowgurl said:


> i thought with english your thumbs are to the side?
> im not sure i ride western


No, thumbs should be on top.


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## Chella (May 23, 2009)

In some of the pics I can tell that your whole body is really telling the horse where to go - eyes body hips thats really nice. Thumbs up is good advice. How about a helmet?!!! I love the color of your horse very unique how old is she?


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## A knack for horses (Jun 17, 2010)

In some of the pics you look a bit forward. Thumbs up. Your posture is good otherwise, and your horse is pretty


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Thank you all. Ok. Sooo most of these pics I was holding her back cause she wanted to haul *** to the barn. And I have been having a problem sitting her canter really well. Hints for that? 

And Chella I was told she is 15 and her teeth seem to match that.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

First of all, a Western pad on an English saddle is fine unless you are at a show. As for your hands, have the reins run between your ring finger and your pinky; also hold your hands at a 45 degree angle (somewhat at the angle of your horse's neck). I think some of your problem is that your saddle is too small for you. One last thing, stop looking down at your horse - look where you want to go.

Overall, I think you look good.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Hands up and thumbs up. Your arm should be a straight line from elbow to bit. You also need to sit back. You only need to be in a half seat at the canter when you're jumping. I agree also, look up where you're going. Overall though, your position isn't bad.

One major issue is your saddle though. It's much too small for you. I am a larger gal myself and I can tell you that finding a saddle big enough for your rear can be a challange, but it's important for your comfort and your horse's comfort. Your current saddle is at least 1" too small for you, possinly 1.5-2" too small. I ride in a 19" AP/CC saddle. I can fit in a 16" western okay, but I prefer more room, so my western saddle is a 17".

In an english saddle you should have 3-4 fingers of space behind your rear end (2-4" min of saddle showing behind you) and the same amount of room between your pelvic bone and the front of your saddle. I have a big tummy too, so it can be hard to eyeball the fit, but you should be able to fit your hand in front of you.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Lonestar22 said:


> I have been having a problem sitting her canter really well. Hints for that?


Sit back, relax your waist, and open up your hips. Your hips and rear should "scoop" the seat of the saddle. You'll need the front of your hips really relaxed and open so you can get the movement without letting your legs swing around too much.


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## SavvyHill (Jun 29, 2010)

Okay, remember the balance line: head to shoulders, shoulders to hip, hip to heel. Make sure you keep your shoulders directly over your hip and your heel directly under your hip. You're leaning forward too much, to the point that it could be throwing your horse off balance. Also, it looks like you're leaning on the reins too much. It looks as if you're always ready to spring into two point, if the need should ever arise. You look uncomfortable like that. Just remember to lean back. In one picture it looks as if you put your foot too much in the stirrup, and it's made it hard for you to put your heels down. Stirrups go on the balls of the feet. Also, you have piano hands. Try not to put your hands down as if you were playing a piano. Remember. Thumbs up. ALWAYS.

That was harsher than I thought it would be. Sorry. I'm just OCD about riding.


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## sorelhorse (Feb 16, 2009)

mmmm. how do i say this nicely
you might need a bigger saddle. in no way am i trying to be mean. just advice


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

First thing I noticed was the position of your hands, they are what we call 'motorbike' or 'piano' hands. You need them so your thumbs are pointing to to the sky. But your hands look nice and soft on the horse's mouth, well done.
In some of the pictures you are leaning forward, I hope you can see that. This will put you and therefore your horse off balance, so sit up straight but maintain a soft back.
If I where you I would also ride with shorter stirrups, this will help when you try to keep your toes in. And especially with your jumping saddle it will keep your legs close to the knee rolls and with the flaps of the saddle.

Beautiful horse by the way
Good luck x


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## ocalagirl (Mar 31, 2010)

I am so impressed that you have that good of a leg and seat (from what I can see) without any sort of training! Great work! I would certainly focus on a more independent hand as well as a more correct hand. Your hands should make a straight line from your elbow to the bit. A good start will be putting your thumbs up and raising your hand from resting on the neck.

Otherwise, you seem to be working in the right direction. I hate to be a stickler, but I would recommend wearing a helmet if you want to jump or move forward in English training. There are some things not even a good leg and seat can save you from


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## brighteyes08 (Jan 20, 2010)

thumbs are always supposed to be on top, your hands are in the best position for control.

you need to tighten your leathers a couple holes, but other than that lookin pretty good for a beginner


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Well done for a self-taught rider. Same as above, I agree that you need a larger saddle. English saddles are measured differently than western so you won't be the same size in both. Once you have a properly fitting saddle you'll be able to sit back more, letting the angle of your hips open and it will become much easier to sit that canter. 

Also, you say you were trying to get him to slow but in all your pics you're sitting forward kind of telling him "let's go!" so that might be part of the problem. I have this same prob! Again, a larger saddle will help alleviate this issue.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I figured it was too small, but I really can't afford another one at the moment until I sell that one. The leathers are as short as they'll go. And english saddles in my area are few and far between. OK. Things I need to correct--- thumbs, fowardness, balance line. I'm posting in some of the pics. Ummmm....I don't even know what a 2-point position is. lol.


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## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

Lonestar22 said:


> I figured it was too small, but I really can't afford another one at the moment until I sell that one. The leathers are as short as they'll go. And english saddles in my area are few and far between. OK. Things I need to correct--- thumbs, fowardness, balance line. I'm posting in some of the pics. Ummmm....I don't even know what a 2-point position is. lol.


Keep your eye out for an older 19" Stubben or other European made All Purpose saddle. They do come around once in a while. I have one 18.5" and one 19" in my tack room, and no, they're not for sale, lol. I found them both in the $200-250 range, no fittings included. Do not buy one of those cheap no-name saddles again (like the one you're riding in). You're better off saving up for a decent used saddle.

The 2-point is a jumping position. You're in what's called a "half-seat" in your canter photos. It's the position you use when cantering between jumps. You're doing it quite well, but you need to learn a "full seat" to help imrpove your riding and better control your horse.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Thank you Speedy  She's still bit skinny for what I like. But I'm working on that. 

I can ride her canter bareback really well so now that I look at it the saddle fit is most likely why its a problem. English is brand new to me. I have never even seen an english type show. Everything I have ever done or seen has been western. I have been trying to get ahold of 2 lesson barns in my area, but thats proving to be a task.


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## masatisan (Jan 12, 2009)

Eyes up, shoulders back, hands at a 45 degree angle. Sit straight, _relax,_ absorb her movements with your lower back. From what I can see, it looks like you are doing what I call "jumping-jack-posting". Your legs are coming off her as you push out of the saddle. Focus on sitting up, bringing your shoulders back and concentrate on turning your toes forwards. If you don't already know how to do two-point it's a great thing to learn. If you do know it, practice trot and canter in two-point with a proper leg contact until your legs burn with pain and your brain screams "stop! stop! stop!" 

*edit: new posts I took too long, two-point is where you balance over the middle of your saddle, with your legs contacting her sides, feet forward and hands partway up the neck. It is used for jumping, cantering, galloping, and is usually taught to novice riders as they learn post at the trot because it improves leg and seat position as well as balance.

The saddle doesn't fit you correctly but it also doesn't fit her. It is sitting too low on her withers, the seat is too short for you and restricting your movement. I wouldn't ride in a saddle that is ill fitting for either myself or my horse, let alone both of us. It can be very uncomfortable and impede on the movement of both and even injure and upset the horse. If you have a better fitting saddle, even a western one, use it. You can still ride english style in a western saddle, the saddle (as long as it fits) doesn't matter, its how you ride.


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## ocalagirl (Mar 31, 2010)

You can always wrap your stirrups until you can punch new holes. Also, check out ebay and craigslist for great deals on saddles around the country! There are tons of good saddles out there.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I check craigs everyday. I had no idea about wrapping the leathers.


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## sandsarita (Jan 20, 2008)

Also, you can get a hole punch out and put in extra holes into your leathers. My leathers have quite a few extra holes put in them  Comes with being of the short leg variety.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I would have already but I cant find our leather punch  I really need to because the new bridle for our other horse is too big.


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

westerncowgurl said:


> i thought with english your thumbs are to the side?
> im not sure i ride western


Even in western when you are riding two handed your thumbs are supposed to be up.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> I would have already but I cant find our leather punch  I really need to because the new bridle for our other horse is too big.


hammer and a nail work too! But I really don't think you need to shorten them, you're not jumping after all!


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## SarahRicoh (Jun 23, 2010)

I think maybe the saddle is too small for you so maybe a bigger one when you can afford it may help your position-as long as its not too long for the horse.
Also just need to sit up really. You look really good otherwise  Beautiful horse


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## Jordan S (Jun 7, 2009)

You have puppy dog paws  Easy fix though, put your hands like your holding two coffee cups and tilting them slightly into each other.


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## stormyweather101 (Nov 9, 2009)

I have to say I could never have trained myself to ride that well! I mean on my first time riding in a lesson I think I looked about 1/1000 as good as you do for not taking lessons! Keep at it! Just shorten your stirrups maybe so you can sink into your heels more which might help to anchor you in the saddle when you canter!


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## Ridehorses99 (Dec 23, 2009)

Lonestar22 said:


> Thank you Speedy  She's still bit skinny for what I like. But I'm working on that.
> 
> I can ride her canter bareback really well so now that I look at it the saddle fit is most likely why its a problem. English is brand new to me. I have never even seen an english type show. Everything I have ever done or seen has been western. I have been trying to get ahold of 2 lesson barns in my area, but thats proving to be a task.


Lonestar.......where in Texas are you located?


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Ridehorses99--- I'm about 6 hrs south east of you lol. 45 mins south of Houston. 

Stormyweather101--- Thank you very much! I try really hard to do my best. I'm not gonna say it was eay. I was on my *** in the dirt alot. But i figured out WHY not to do something alot faster. 

SarahRicoh---Thank you, she is pretty huh? 

I'm going to visit a stable to talk about taking lessons soon. Any questions that I shgouldn't leave without asking? I'm realy excited.


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## justinebee (Jul 21, 2010)

first thing i noticed was the posture and how you were holding the reins. sitting up and finding your center will help your balance tons. and with the reins, keep your thumbs up. i also noticed the reins were pulled back a bit much (mabe you were "ho"-ing?), and im a huge loose-reins advocate haha, which may just be my opinion? but i do know a lot of english riders keep really tight reins (im both english and western), just don't prefer it myself


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Yeah. I was holding her back. we were by the barn and she was trying to haul it home. lol.


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## Lovehorsesandrunning (Nov 10, 2009)

good! but yea piano hands, thumbs up! i dont really have any critique


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## justinebee (Jul 21, 2010)

Lonestar22 said:


> Yeah. I was holding her back. we were by the barn and she was trying to haul it home. lol.


haha i know how that is, i ride a morgan sometimes and when we start riding in a direction that he thinks might lead to home, he is on a mission!


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## myhorsemylove101 (Jul 22, 2010)

yer just keep ur thumbs on top and all the rest looks good!


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## ThoroughbredXoX (Jun 6, 2010)

I love your horse!


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I think you have yourself a bit of your problem. Your issues are a) you can sit to the canter and b) you seem to be needing to pull her up a lot. I would think these are both related to the saddle not fitting. To sit to the canter you have to sit right back but because your saddle is too small sitting back causes you to be pushed forward. This results in you not riding with your body "underneath you" and you are forced to ride in a permanent position that looks a fair bit like the "two point position" used for jumping, but really it isn't because a two point lifts you off the back for the canter but you are still attempting to sit to it. 

Also, leaning forward urges the horse forward, or at least allows him to go forward. Then you pull on the reins to slow him but really you just get him to lean against you. Also, with your wrists rolled in you'll find that you end up just pulling the reins to your stomach. Just while sitting at the corner roll your wrists and pretend to pull back on reins. You can only pull back to your stomach and your position softens, shoulders are too loose. Put your thumbs on top and facing forward. Then pretend to pull back, your elbows should be able to go past your sides - but more importantly you should notice that even off a horse your posture and position is much more stable. 

Instead of just pulling back work on getting him to slow with your seat. Leaning battles are only going to make things worse so if he won't slow down with gentle aids do a tight circle until he does, then continue on your way. 

For no lessons I think you are going well


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## Pinto (Mar 31, 2010)

Okay, instead of having to type out all the things you should improve on, I've got a better idea.

Get some English lessons.

Simple, huh?  
I think everyone should learn to ride English (emphasizing in dressage and equitation) because it translates into all forms of riding. You can only learn so much from books. I think getting a knowledgeable and experienced English rider to teach you is the best way to ensure you get the best out of yourself and your horse.


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## kingkillkannon (Mar 13, 2009)

I was always taught, hold your reins like you are holding two cups of hot coffee. Thumbs up.
Also I would shorten your sturrups 2 or 3 holes to streghthen your base. In some of the pictures your pitched a bit forward. Just remember shoulders back, hips square and let your weight fall into your heels. There should be a straight line from your ear to your elbow to your hip to your heel. Also a straight line from the tip of your elbow straight thru to your horses mouth. Your feet are a bit to far in the irons. Keep the irons at the ball of your foot and that will help you get your heal down. 
Keep up the good work!! Good Luck!


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## justinebee (Jul 21, 2010)

kingkillkannon said:


> I was always taught, hold your reins like you are holding two cups of hot coffee. Thumbs up.
> Also I would shorten your sturrups 2 or 3 holes to streghthen your base. In some of the pictures your pitched a bit forward. Just remember shoulders back, hips square and let your weight fall into your heels. There should be a straight line from your ear to your elbow to your hip to your heel. Also a straight line from the tip of your elbow straight thru to your horses mouth. Your feet are a bit to far in the irons. Keep the irons at the ball of your foot and that will help you get your heal down.
> Keep up the good work!! Good Luck!


oh my gosh you just brought me back to riding lessons back when i was little! haha my trainer years ago would constantly be reminding me "balls of your feet! balls of your feet!" and she said the same thing about the hot coffee as well!


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

Thanks for all your replies! Today I am going to a lesson barn to talk to the trainer about taking lessons there and view their facilities. I'm really excited.


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## kingkillkannon (Mar 13, 2009)

Oh thats excellent news!! Lessons are a great way to improve your riding and they are super fun too! And some of the best people you will ever meet will be the people at the barn! Your BEST friends are your BARN friends!! Good Luck!!


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## mtsteelhorse (Aug 26, 2010)

I think you look lovely! Thumbs on top YES. Relax down into your leg as if you're breathing down all the way to your feet. Lift your chest ever so slightly and your horse will feel that...as your shoulder come back a bit and your chest elevates she will slow and wait more for you. She's beautiful! Keep going!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

*Mor advice if you aren't sick of it by now*

Lonestar,

You sure hit the jackpot for advice, dinja? Ok, can you stand more?
A lot of folks commented on the position of your hands. There is a reason for that; because your hands are so rolled over, beyond "piano hand", they are actually rolled to the inside (thumb below pinky). The problem is that your hands are directly connected to your elbows and thus your shoulders and your core. If you roll them inward or flatward (as if you were playing a piano or even more inward) your elbow is forced OUTWARD. (look at your photo, I can see the underside of your elbow it is so far rolled outward)
You want your elbow to stay close to your side. This is important. The direct line is from elbow to bit, NOT from shoulder to bit. There must be a bend in your elbow when you are just doing regular riding. All disciplines have this. Your elbow is a very powerful part of you, and if you roll it away from your body, it throws your balance forward and weakens your core. Your horse could easily pull you out of the saddle with you elbows out like that. Tuck them against your sides with a nice angle between upper and lower arm and you have way more core strenght, thus balance. Think about linking your elbow to your "chi" the center of our energy that is just about an inch below our belly button . Think of mentally holding you and your horse together via that energy point. (getting kinda woo-woo here).
Oh heck, just keep your elbow tucked in , don't let it flap and keep a bend in it. That being said, does NOT mean it should be stiff. It MUST flex with every stride, in order to allow the horse's head to move as it naturally does. Your hands stay in the same place, so the elbow has to open and close slightly to accomadate the movement, allowing your hands to stay still (relative to the horse ) oh-oh, w00 w00 again.

The saddle is too small. You look kind of tall. Ultimately, the size of a saddle is both dependent on the size of our butt, AND the length of our femur bone. in an English saddle, your knee should be at an angle where it touches (or goes through) a point on the rounded flap or knee roll, that is the farthest out or the roundest point on the arc of the flap. 
At least this is true in a dressage saddle. Some skinny folks ride in saddles that are 16" when because they are tall, they really need an 18. I use an 18 or 17.5 mimimun. I am 5' 5.

I think I also saw that your legs are braced into the stirrups . Did you used to ride Western? Many western riders ride this way, very, very common. My pet peeve, actually. In English riding you must be much more flexible at the ankle, knee and hip. You will ride much more like an "accordion"' openning and closing the angles of those joints to absorb the movement. Once you get this right, you can carry yourself so lightly on your horse that he (she?) will love the feeling of unity that you two will achieve. 

You sit up really nicely and have the beginnings of a terrific seat.
Fear not, heavy folks can ride beautifully. It's not how much one weighs, it's HOW they carry that weight that counts.


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