# Looking for Horse Hauling Vehicle Advise



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

I haven't actually bought a trailer, so I'm not commenting on personal experience. Just the logic I used when buying my truck. 

Based on the research I've done the new half ton trucks are generally fine for towing a 2 horse trailer with one horse. I bought a 2014 v8 F-150 with the intentions of towing a two horse trailer with generally one horse, but the possibility of pulling two horses if I wanted. I didn't want to go with any larger of a truck if possible since it's also my day to day vehicle. Definitely get one with a towing package! You'll have some people come along saying that you shouldn't haul any sort of horse trailer in anything less than a 3/4 ton truck, though based on my research I'm comfortable with the decision I made. Do your research and decide what you're comfortable with. 

I've heard many people say that they would much rather haul in a gooseneck than a bumper pull, but I've also heard that goosenecks will generally be too much for a half ton truck. Again, do your research and decide what you're comfortable with. There are plenty of people with actual hauling experience that can probably give some more sound advice


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## david in md (Jun 13, 2013)

My towing vehicle is a 3/4 ton but it gets 10 mpg so it isn't my daily driver. Add up the wt of the trailer and horses you'd want to haul and be sure that doesn't exceed the towing capacity or gross combination wt of the truck you are considering. Be sure to consider the wt of 2 horses because sometime down the road you'll haul 2 horses if you have a 2 horse trailer. I'm a gm oerson but the Ford ecoboost v6 is supposed to be fuel efficient yet have power when needed. Dodge just came out with a half ton diesel. Realistically can you deal with 20 mpg or less because thats about all a truck will get. Do you need 4wd? Going without will save some money ans improve mileage. If you live in the snow belt or plan to drive off paved or gravel roads I'd want 4wd. Finally any trailer with a gvw rating above 3000 pounds or with 2 axles will have trailer brakes, probably electric. You'll need a brake controller in your truck to actuate them. The towing package usually gets you a built in brake controller, a receiver hitch, wiring and plug in for the trailer, and maybe an auxiliary transmission cooler. I've found the built in brake controllers work better than add on. Goose neck trailers are nice for manueverability and putting some of the trailer wt on the front axle but are less common on smaller trailers. You'll be fine with a bumper pull.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

A half ton is plenty for one horse in a standard steel 2-horse bumper pull. I haul mine with a 2010 Tundra 4.6L V8. This is the smaller of the two V8 options they offer, but has been just fine for my needs, even when hauling two horses. Most late model half tons with a tow package will have enough tow capacity to safely tow a trailer with one horse.

You _must_ have a tow package, and you _must_ have a brake controller to activate the trailer's built in brakes. With my truck it was already pre-wired for the controller so I just had to buy the unit (~$150 for a pretty nice one), crimp the wire harness, and plug it in. A weight distribution hitch (not to be confused with sway bars) is also something I'd recommend, though it's not strictly necessary. 

Remember that the functional tow capacity of your vehicle depends on every piece in the chain- if your ball mount, for example, is only rated to 1,000 lbs then it doesn't matter if the truck is rated to 10,000 lbs; you can only safely tow 1,000 lbs.

Goosenecks are nice I hear, but means you need a bigger truck because goosenecks put more weight onto the truck itself.


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## david in md (Jun 13, 2013)

My towing vehicle is a 3/4 ton but it gets 10 mpg so it isn't my daily driver. Add up the wt of the trailer and horses you'd want to haul and be sure that doesn't exceed the towing capacity or gross combination wt of the truck you are considering. Be sure to consider the wt of 2 horses because sometime down the road you'll haul 2 horses if you have a 2 horse trailer. I'm a gm person but the Ford ecoboost v6 is supposed to be fuel efficient yet have power when needed. Dodge just came out with a half ton diesel. Realistically can you deal with 20 mpg or less because thats about all a truck will get. Do you need 4wd? Going without will save some money ans improve mileage. If you live in the snow belt or plan to drive off paved or gravel roads I'd want 4wd. Finally any trailer with a gvw rating above 3000 pounds or with 2 axles will have trailer brakes, probably electric. You'll need a brake controller in your truck to actuate them. The towing package usually gets you a built in brake controller, a receiver hitch, wiring and plug in for the trailer, and maybe an auxiliary transmission cooler. I've found the built in brake controllers work better than add on. Goose neck trailers are nice for manueverability and putting some of the trailer wt on the front axle but are less common on smaller trailers. You'll be fine with a bumper pull.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

verona1016 said:


> Goosenecks are nice I hear, but means you need a bigger truck because goosenecks put more weight onto the truck itself.


This.

A gooseneck is a far superior setup but most will overwhelm the suspension on a half ton truck.

If you post details on what make/models you're looking at we can crunch the numbers here for you as most manufacturers post their tow ratings online. We'd also need to know what kind of trailer you're looking at - a straight 2 horse with no frills is going to weigh a lot less vs a fancy 2 horse with a tack room, changeroom, living quarters, that sort of thing. Also, aluminum (newer trailer) vs a steel (if you're looking used) makes a big difference as well.

As long as you're looking at a reasonably modern truck (as it sounds like) you'll find that most half tons will do just fine with the sorts of weights you are considering, however. Many new ones also come with (or have the option for) an integrated trailer brake controller - this is NOT optional, you MUST have functional trailer brakes.


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## saco (Aug 19, 2013)

2015s of Ford F150 (3.5L EcoBoost V6), Chevy 1500 Siverado (EcoTec 5.3L Max Towage Package), GMC 1500 Sierra (5.3L EcoTec3 V8), and Dodge 1500 Ram (5.7-Liter V8) are the ones up for consideration. Non diesels due to that diesel price isn't worth the fuel efficiency. 

Specs that manufacturers are citing for towage capacity are 10,000 to 12,000 towage capacity but am leaning towards a 10,000 towage if viable. I just don't want to be in a dangerous situation of insufficient power due to variables that were not taken into account for since this is new territory for me.

Trailers I would be getting is a bare necessity aluminum, from a chart about 1800# weight. I figure 5000 towage number for one large horse plus trailer but don't know what to add for uphill or a general good rule of thumb to add for cushion space.

Was thinking bout getting one where a gooseneck could be added but the shocks will be eaten up? Also should I just go with the biggest axle ratio. Does it do anything beyond increasing the towage like the charts say?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

None of those will have any problems at all with a 2 horse aluminum...and you'll still have some payload capacity left over for tack, hay, water, etc...no problems. I think you'll find that the entire load with an aluminum trailer and 2 horses is probably only in the range of 5K.

I don't know of any tag trailers that can be converted to gooseneck - the two are quite a bit different from the ground up by design - goosenecks tend to have their axles further back (to put more weight on the GN vs the comparatively light hitch loading of a tag trailer) and the front of the trailer is considerably different.

Axle ratio's, yes, an important consideration, but don't just go for the tallest gearing possible as you will pay a lifetime of fuel economy penalties for it. My big diesel is 4.10 final gearing and it pulls great, but it'll never get any sort of decent empty milage as result..but it has a trailer behind it 95% of it's life, so it's good at what it does. For a dual-duty pickup that spends most of it's time NOT towing I'd go with the typical 3.73 gearing that provides a nice mix between towing and non-towing capabilities. It'll provide enough grunt to tow 5K easily, but won't totally kill you on empty milage on the flipside.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

saco said:


> Non diesels due to that diesel price isn't worth the fuel efficiency.


I'm going to tell you that you are VERY mistaken on this. Diesels are built to haul and will outlast any gas engine by several hundred thousand miles. We just sold our 1999 Ford F250 7.3L Super Duty Diesel, and it had 287,000 miles on it and will probably last another 250,000 miles. There was nothing wrong with it and we sold it for .......$18,000, more than I paid for it when I bought it in 2001. That truck hauled my 3 horse, steel trailer, fully loaded with horses, hay or household goods all over the country and you'd never know there was a trailer back there. 

As for type of vehicle to pull the trailer, a 1/2 T is probably sufficient. The problem comes in when you need to STOP that fully loaded trailer. I won't even consider anything less than a 3/4 ton and yes, I bought another diesel and I get close to 18 mpg. I also have trailer brakes, a jake brake on the truck and a breakaway brake on the trailer.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> The problem comes in when you need to STOP that fully loaded trailer.


Out of curiosity, what makes a particular truck better at stopping with a heavy load? Is there a spec for braking power that can be looked up? Or a different type of brake that is used on the larger trucks?


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I am part of the underpowered crowd who have a truck and just happen to tow sometimes.

I tow my 2H BP (model specifically chosen for being lighter weight) with a 2011 Tacoma (V6 4WD Tow Package). I have a weight distro hitch and you've got to have a brake controller. My max tow is 6700#, so I aim to stay under 5000# (safety margin). My truck is my daily diver and usually tows 1-4 days a month, averaging an hour out and back. This doesn't count the occasional long trip to rides or events. 20mpg normally, 12 towing. Big hit with my gas engine.

I will say the following: I get a lot of crap for not having a bigger truck, but everyone who has ever ridden with me has been impressed by how capable my Taco really was. However, I have to be constantly aware of the weight I am loading in the truck and trailer, because I could overload if not careful, and I tow extremely cautiously. It takes extra work. If I could afford to have two vehicles (one 3/4t for towing and one DD) I would.

You mention self-sufficiency. If you "trucked-up" to something 3/4 ton or so, maybe you could get something with some LQ. Then you'd really be set for trips, moves, and traveling. It might then be worth the hit in the wallet for gas having to use it as a daily driver as well. Also consider where you may end up. If you're in some of TX, it's easy to drive and park a big truck. If you're in Seattle, WA, it's tough to fit even my Tacoma in some places.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I'm going to tell you that you are VERY mistaken on this. Diesels are built to haul and will outlast any gas engine by several hundred thousand miles.


That USED to be the case. I own a diesel pickup, a 1-ton dually diesel so I've nothing against them, but honestly, the point at which a diesel makes sense to the occasional tower is so high now that it no longer makes sense for many people.

If you tow less than 8000-10,000 miles a year (which probably nets the greater majority of horse owners) a diesel simply makes no sense anymore - the upfront cost is roughly $8000-$10000 more for most manufacturers and the ongoing maintenance costs (unless you do your own, which isn't the case for most people) are significantly higher.

When you do the difference in MPG calculations, the fact that diesel now costs more than gas, even with the much better tow MPG rounded in...unless you tow tens of thousands of miles a year it does not make sense anymore. The payback is literally decades for some people.

The gassers have come a long way. They'll never touch the diesels for economy or power, but again, looking at it realistically....for the casual tower who only tows a few thousand miles every year (if that)...it makes no sense anymore. 



Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I also have trailer brakes, a jake brake on the truck and a breakaway brake on the trailer.


Trailer brake controllers are available as a built in option on most trucks now, and if they don't come factory equipped the trailering package usually includes the wiring built in at least so just adding an aftermarket controller is drastically easier than it used to be. Being a diesel or not really doesn't play into that either way. Breakaway brakes are a function of the trailer, not the truck, so that's something that's going to come as part of any newer trailer that was built after those regs came into place.

And your truck doesn't have a "jake", BTW. :wink: It has one of two things - an exhaust brake (a simple flapper that restricts exhaust to aid engine braking), or more commonly now, a variable vane turbo that simply adjusts the vanes agressively closed to serve basically the same function as an old fashioned flapper.

A true "jake brake" is something you only find on class 8 trucks, and it's a complicated system that adjusts the valves when activated so that the engine basically becomes a big air compressor. There are no pickup trucks with a true jacobson system.



verona1016 said:


> Out of curiosity, what makes a particular truck better at stopping with a heavy load? Is there a spec for braking power that can be looked up? Or a different type of brake that is used on the larger trucks?


Bigger truck = bigger brakes. Again, it's important to keep ratings in mind - a half to today has drastically better brakes than a half ton of even 10 years ago. In many circumstances the half tons now have the same brakes as the 3/4 ton models, so the concerns are even less. Yes, when you get into 1-ton models the brakes are notable bigger in order to be able to stop all the weight they're capable of carrying.



Sharpie said:


> I will say the following: I get a lot of crap for not having a bigger truck, but everyone who has ever ridden with me has been impressed by how capable my Taco really was.


Power is rarely the problem with towing today - there are 3/4 ton pickup trucks out there making more *horse*power than the class 8 tractor trailer I drive every day for work. Torque is another thing, but that's a different story. :wink:

The horsepower wars have crossed the line to stupid in the pickup truck category, but stopping power matters more - a 1/2 ton could get 80,000 pounds rolling with enough time and effort...but good luck stopping it.

I'm also not a huge fan of being "over trucked", either. Is it better to have more capabilities vs less? Absolutely...but when we're talking a truck with a 10K towing capacity and the OP wants to tow a 5K load, stepping up to a 3/4 ton category truck is just a waste of money IMHO. UNLESS upgrading to a bigger trailer even a slight possibility down the road it's unnecessary really and just serves to burden someone with a bigger payment for something they didn't need to begin with.


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## saco (Aug 19, 2013)

Thanks for all the advise.

When I mentioned stepping up to a gooseneck I meant getting a new trailer with that if I come to a point where I needed some added control and start hauling two horses. But that would be for years and who knows what the 1/2T capabilities will be then. I am just wondering if a gooseneck of a light 2h alum trailer with one lrg horse is a bit unnecessary if I am a cautious towing and bumper trailers are perfectly viable performance and safe wise along with is a gooseneck on a 1/2T viable, sounds like it will eat up my shocks.

Geographically I'll end up in West Texas, parts of New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Wyoming. Permian Basin area since I work in the oil industry. Need to get a new vehicle as my old one got wrecked and figure it will be better cost efficient to get something that can tow when needed when I get ready next year for the horse and can commute reasonably.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

saco said:


> Thanks for all the advise.
> 
> When I mentioned stepping up to a gooseneck I meant getting a new trailer with that if I come to a point where I needed some added control and start hauling two horses. But that would be for years and who knows what the 1/2T capabilities will be then. I am just wondering if a gooseneck of a light 2h alum trailer with one lrg horse is a bit unnecessary if I am a cautious towing and bumper trailers are perfectly viable performance and safe wise along with is a gooseneck on a 1/2T viable, sounds like it will eat up my shocks.
> 
> Geographically I'll end up in West Texas, parts of New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Wyoming. Permian Basin area since I work in the oil industry. Need to get a new vehicle as my old one got wrecked and figure it will be better cost efficient to get something that can tow when needed when I get ready next year for the horse and can commute reasonably.


I would buy what you need for towing two horses now rather than looking to upgrade in the future. It just makes more sense to me... even if you're not planning on pulling two horses the occasion seems likely to come up.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Now, hold on...where are you actually located? Your profile doesn't show a home location. Are you TOWING to all those different states? If so it sounds like you're covering a lot of area and the argument for a diesel suddenly may change in favor of it IF you're towing a lot. More details needed. 

Ask for the gooseneck versus tag trailer argument, there is no debate that a gooseneck is a far superior set up regardless if it's a one horse or a 6+ horse trailer - everything about them our inherently more stable, more maneuverable, and generally better set up versus a tag trailer. All that said, if it's something you're even remotely considering for the future do yourself a favor and buy a 3/4 ton truck NOW. Although some manufacturers have increased the payload capacity's on the 1/2 ton trucks to the point where fifth wheels or goosenecks are technically viable, in reality you can far too easily push them to their limits and beyond into unsafe territory very quickly. They are basically only useful for the newer generation fifth wheel campers that are built exceedingly light and therefore don't transfer massive amounts of weight to the hitch – horse trailers are not built with the same considerations in mind and accordingly are generally unsuitable for use with a 1/2 ton gooseneck set up. 

It only makes sense to buy a more capable truck now versus having to trade your truck in a few years down the road if a gooseneck is in the cards.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

With regards to what you keep mentioning ("eat up my shocks"), that's not the concern - The primary issue with overloading is simply exceeding the rated capabilities of your trucks axles, and secondly, exceeding the trucks braking ability.

As mentioned, the biggest issue with gooseneck trailers is that they transfer much more weight to the truck. Whereas a tag trailer may only put a few hundred pounds of weight on the hitch, a gooseneck generally starts at about 1000 pounds and can go upwards of several multiples of that for a larger, fancier, or heavier built trailer. My 35 foot four horse head to head gooseneck with large change and tack room for example puts over 3000 pounds of pin weight on the rear axle of my truck when fully loaded. That's the reason I have a 1 ton dually vs even a 3/4 ton - that would have the rear bumper of a half ton sitting on the ground. 

The shocks don't carry any load whatsoever (they are simply dampers to stop bouncing) - the axle and rear springs carry the load, and the reality is that a 1/2 ton truck isn't sufficient in that regards to carry the exceedingly heavy weights put on the rear axle buy a gooseneck trailer. This is where the argument for being proactive and buying a three-quarter ton truck now is important to consider if a gooseneck is in your future.


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## saco (Aug 19, 2013)

Currently in West Texas temporarily and next year I'll be at a more permanent job location which the states I mentioned are the possible locations. The only moving around I'll be doing is hauling for some horse training periodically on my off time. Two horses isn't something in the near nor not too distant future if it even comes to that, it'll come into the picture if I needed to upgrade but that is something 6, 8 years or more down the road. What I'm looking for is a vehicle that can do the periodic hauling of a single horse and does decent commuting. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like a 10k towage capacity sounds adequate with some cushion for a 2h alum horse bumper trailer loaded with 2 horses. 

Debating if I should get a new SUV for my commuting and buy a used truck when the time comes or if it's better to buy a new truck now that has the capabilities that I'll be needing. New trucks seem to get as good gas milage as most used SUVs. Trying to weigh my options and getting the research done.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Half ton with 3.73 gearing, 2WD (4WD just costs you MPG penalty for the life of the truck... and you're unlikely to ever need it) and a trailer towing package...and you'll be happy.


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## Mingiz (Jan 29, 2009)

I have pulled a 2h GN with 4ft dressing all steel with a 1/2 ton Dodge ram 4x4 5.2 V8. Towed all over MD/Va. It did well even with 2 horses on board. The only thing I did do was added brakes for the other axels. Never had an issue with it. Just a tad slower going up mountains but otherwise it worked well. I also pulled a 16 ft. BP stock without any problems. I have since up graded to a diesel and an LQ. :wink:


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

A 1/2 ton truck barely works in Wyoming pulling a horse trailer. Even a light one. The grades up are long and coming back down, it really, really helps to have a low gear ratio, and as much brake as you can afford. You don't want to depend on brakes to slow your roll down some of the long grades. 

I DO pull a 3 horse BP in WY and MT. For a reason. The truck is my daily ride. It's economical, comfortable, and can handle the roads I drive for business. The ranch in which I have an interest has plenty of trucks and stock trailers, and I don't want to get roped into hauling bulls in my personal vehicle/trailer. 

I only use the 1/2 and BP to take a horse, one horse, with me on business trips, or two horses right around the ranch.

But, honestly, I don't even take the 1/2 ton if I'm just driving over the mountains if I can avoid it. Not set up for it.

Anyway you can hold off getting a truck and trailer until you get settled and know what you will need?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Another thing to consider is the speed limit on most of the interstate highways in WY is now 80 mph. 1/2 ton trucks are often to light to be stable at higher speeds, so you will either take the two lanes, as I prefer, or go slow on the four lanes.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm having a hard time finding those arguments necessarily 100% valid.

We're talking a vehicle that is rated for 10,000 pounds towing being asked to tow roughly half of that. It's not a marginal setup, it's not even close to it's limits. As long as it's geared properly, the trailer brakes are operational and setup properly, and (in the case of Wyoming) the OP understands how to decent a grade properly, there's not going to be any issues here. A 3/4 ton (or even a base 1-ton) comes with all the same power options for the most part (unless we're talking the diesel option) so the power argument is moot - braking is the biggest improvement, and again, we're talking a vehicle being asked to tow a mere 50% of it's ratings...so the half ton isn't going to struggle in that regard either.

I'm reminded of some of the discussions from rv.net where everyone feels that anything less than a 1-Ton dually is an inappropriate tow vehicle for anything more than a tent trailer anymore. Although I'm not suggesting overloading, this isn't the case here..and honestly, a 3/4 or 1-ton is going to be more capable, sure, but it's akin to buying a 10 person bus to take your 4 person family to the grocery store - unnecessary overkill.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Sure one can get by out here with a half ton. I do.

But I'm definitely underpowered for long grades and high winds. My choice works for my situation. I can deal with its' limits and have options when I need them. 

But, if I was limited to one vehicle and wanted to go wherever I wished whenever I wanted? The half ton wouldn't have my name on it. It is not the most versatile vehicle.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

For what it's worth you can spec some half tons with surprisingly beefy power options now. 

And it comes down to a level of compromise as well – if your uncompromising expectation is that whenever you're towing a trailer you want to be able to put the truck on cruise control and roar any mountain grade without losing even 1MPH, then yes there's no replacement for displacement. 

But if you are willing to compromise a little bit on that in the understanding that the perhaps 90% of the time you are NOT towing (more like 95-98% of the time for many) the truck will achieve better fuel mileage, it's a very important compromise to strongly consider. It's a tough pill to swallow buying a truck with significantly higher horsepower that you're not going to need the greater majority of the time – the additional fuel cost over the life of the truck can easily be tens of thousands of dollars. 

Personally, I'm willing to slow down a little bit on a hill in the rare occasion that I might be in challenging terrain in order to save a significant amount of money EVERY time I fill the fuel tank. I think that's something that any budget minded person would be tough pressed to argue against. 

If money is no object then hey, I am all for getting a 1 ton Dooley with a big diesel - there's no question it will do the job better, but you will pay for the privilege every day you own that truck. 

Don't get me wrong, if this was somebody who was hauling horses for a living and was routinely in challenging territory I would be recommending a 3/4 or 1 ton truck in a heartbeat not only for it's better capabilities, but more importantly for its future upgrade potential as well as longevity. 

10 years ago I wouldn't have been making this argument as 1/2 ton trucks were built with much weaker brakes and such, but the OP is looking at a brand-new truck by the sounds of it and a lot has changed for the better. They are still not remotely suitable for a gooseneck trailer, and are only marginally capable with some light fifth wheel RV's (mainly because of their later suspension and its inability to carry the heavy loads of both) but we are talking a text trailer here as it seems the OP has ruled out gooseneck trailers now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

I have to agree mostly with Private. I have a 1/2 ton ford. I pull a 16ft hay trailer and a 2h bp. It pulls ok. Would I sometimes like a larger truck, yes, But not at the expense of truck and gas. I do hope to go to a used 3/4 ton for hauling in the next two years but plan to keep the 1/2 ton for general use. But for now the 1/2 ton pulls great, I am very careful about stoping. I do have a brake controler and drive mostly without a trailer.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Sorry, typos in my last reply...relying too much on voice dictation. 

"Lighter suspension" and "tag trailer" in last paragraph is what I meant. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

I have a first generation Toyota Tundra -- a smaller truck than any of the modern half-tons. In 2012 I used it to haul my big gelding all the way from Minnesota to Washington State and back. We stopped along the way in Montana and picked up a huge mare. Part of the last leg of the trip was driving around the south side of Glacier National Park.

I was pulling a Featherlite 2-horse bumper pull trailer with a generous tack room in the front. My truck is rated to pull 7,100 pounds and I'm guessing with both horses and assorted tack the all-up weight was in the 5,500 lb. range. I did not use an equalizer hitch. I installed a Prodigy P3 brake controller, which worked extremely well.

I did not try to maintain more than 65 mph anywhere on the route. The worst moment I had on the entire trip was an extreme side wind in North Dakota, which was unsettling, but did not cause the trailer to sway. I made it home, didn't burn a drop of oil in over 3,000 miles, and averaged close to 12 mpg. If my little 2002 Tundra with 150,000 miles could do that, you sure don't need a 3/4 ton to do the same thing.

As far as goosenecks vs. bumper pulls, Featherlite lists their heaviest 2-horse bumper pull at 3500 pounds and their 2-horse goosenecks vary from 4100 to 5000 pounds. So worst case scenario, with gear and two big horses you could pull a gooseneck and still be under the max towing capacity of a modern half-ton by 2-3000 pounds.

The advantage of a gooseneck is it's a safer, more stable rig in a sidewind or emergency situation, and you have a pretty nice clean dry place to crawl up into and sleep if you want to. The disadvantage, besides more money and more weight, is a lot fewer people are equipped to help you out if you need somebody to haul your rig in a pinch. Plus modern pickups are trending to shorter boxes and longer cabs, which can result in some serious cab damage in a tight turn. Plus the taller box sides can make it difficult to get the trailer leveled out.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Joel Reiter said:


> As far as goosenecks vs. bumper pulls, Featherlite lists their heaviest 2-horse bumper pull at 3500 pounds and their 2-horse goosenecks vary from 4100 to 5000 pounds. So worst case scenario, with gear and two big horses you could pull a gooseneck and still be under the max towing capacity of a modern half-ton by 2-3000 pounds.


The issue with goosenecks on a 1/2 ton is not towing capacity- it's payload capacity. Bumper pulls put about 10% of their weight on the truck, while goosenecks put about 25%. Coupled with the higher weight of the gooseneck, you could easily be putting 1500 lbs of weight onto the truck (two 1000 lb horses in Featherlite's 4100 lb trailer). Payload capacity also includes anything that's in the truck like people, boxes, hay bales, etc. My 2010 Tundra has a payload capacity of 1610 lbs, so you can see how this would be a bad idea


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

^^^ Exactly. Half tons and gooseneck horse trailers do not mix and can make for a dangerous combination.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Just to let everyone know I'm enjoying this discussion -- it's great food for thought. Thanks.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

verona1016 said:


> Bumper pulls put about 10% of their weight on the truck, while goosenecks put about 25%.


You make a valid point, although I don't think it's completely fair to compare a 10% bumper pull hitch weight to a 25% gooseneck. GMC lists gooseneck hitch weight at 16.7%, other sources round it off to 20%. While it's certainly possible to load the trailer to put 25% on the hitch, it's possible to put 15% on a bumper hitch. That doesn't mean it's good practice.

Even so, putting two big horses and a few odds and ends in the 4100 pound gooseneck would still give a 1400 lb. tongue weight at 20%. That would only leave room for one medium size person and her suitcase in the case of your 2010 Tundra, but trucks are getting more capable all the time.

The 2015 GMC Sierras can be configured with a 1,960 pound payload, and the new F150 comes very close to that.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

1960 payload capacity goes away VERY quickly which is why half tons are not recommended for GN/5th trailers.

Now lets see how fast that disappears.

- That 1960 pounds doesn't usually include a full tank of fuel =100#.

- Passengers, even 2 adults at a (conservative) 150# each = 300#.

- Bale or two of hay for your horses at your destination = 100#

- Crap floating about in your truck that you never even think about = 25#

- Going somewhere remote and bringing your own water for the horses? = 100#

- Going to a show and got a cooler full of drinks/food? 30#

Already we're up to 650 pounds. Add in a third passenger or two heavier passengers and that could be up to 750-800# really quickly...and most people totally underestimate their empty curb weight of their trucks after loading them up with all their "stuff". Those tools behind the seat, the little air compressor in the toolbox along with other cruft that tends to collect here and there...this, that...another 100# or so all of a sudden.

So all of a sudden you're talking only around 1000# of payload which is what most people use as the general guideline for what you can actually put in the back of a regular half-ton.

The general tongue weight rule for GN's is 25% of trailer weight. This IS accurate - although many 5'th wheel manufacturers are now making "1/2 ton towable" models that are designed with pin weights that are getting lower and lower (solely to accomodate the limited half ton payload capacities), goosenecks are still almost always firmly 25% still.

So with 1000# of pin weight at the absolute max, at a 25% ratio, towing with a half ton gives you a total possible gooseneck trailer weight of 4000#.

With that in mind...try finding a gooseneck trailer that you can put two 1200# horses in (again, an average) and still be under 4000# total. :wink:


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

PrivatePilot said:


> With that in mind...try finding a gooseneck trailer that you can put two 1200# horses in (again, an average) and still be under 4000# total. :wink:


I can see I've already lost this argument. I'd just like to point out that applying the same calculations to a 3/4 ton pickup would make it marginal for a 3-horse gooseneck and overloaded by a 4-horse rig.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything, just chatting, that's all. 

But... :wink:



Joel Reiter said:


> I can see I've already lost this argument. I'd just like to point out that applying the same calculations to a 3/4 ton pickup would make it marginal for a 3-horse gooseneck and overloaded by a 4-horse rig.


2015 2500 Sierra has a payload capacity of 4306 pounds, so the math changes pretty dramatically actually. Assuming 1000 pounds of "pre-trailer" load (the aforementioned passengers etc etc) that still leaves you with 3300 pounds of payload capacity. Based on the 25% rule that puts you in the 13,000# trailer territory range for a GN which emcompases a 3 horse no problem, and even a modern aluminum 4 horse GN (Around 6K empty) would come in under those ratings even with 4 big horses in it.

We're talking a whole different class of load carrying capacity in the 2500 range. When you look at the raw numbers a 2500 does outclass the 1500 series trucks pretty noticeably.

Cheers. :wink:


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

PrivatePilot said:


> 2015 2500 Sierra has a payload capacity of 4306 pounds


No worries, I'm certainly learning from this thread. I guess 3/4 ton capacity varies a lot just like half tons -- I was referencing this guy who says his GMC can handle 3300 pounds. A brief primer on pickup truck payload capacities

So bottom line, haulers need to know the details on both their truck's capacity and their trailer's weight if they want to pull within a safe margin. Some of those numbers take some homework to extract.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Joel Reiter said:


> So bottom line, haulers need to know the details on both their truck's capacity and their trailer's weight if they want to pull within a safe margin. Some of those numbers take some homework to extract.


Definitely! There's a wide range of capacities based on the options a particular truck has. As I mentioned earlier, my truck has a payload capacity of 1610 lbs. I know this because I had my vehicle's specs pulled up by VIN by a Toyota dealer (it's probably also marked on the sticker on the inside of my driver's side door ;-)). But if I Google '2010 Tundra payload capacity' it says there's a range of 1350 to 2090 lbs- not all are created equal!


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