# Should I buy this mare?



## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

First, how do you feel about it? I sense you have reservations which is hardly surprising.

It is quite a commitment to care for an in-foal mare on behalf of someone else. $20,000 is an awful lot of money for a horse past its best plus the value of a well-bred foal (remember this is a loss to you even if your trainer pays some costs. Though you do have the option to breed another good horse for yourself later. 

To promise this woman a first foal you are losing the best part of 12 months before you can really consider the horse yours. How much will your trainer feel she can dictate terms once the mare is carrying a foal for her. What are the implications if the mare miscarries or does not provide a live foal? Do you lose another 12 months? What if it is the mare that doesn't survive the pregnancy? Do you carry the cost.

TBH if it was me, I would tell the trainer you would consider buying the mare after she has bred herself another foal. I would be doing some homework on whether that sort of money for an older horse is your best option, especially if she has another foal first and is 15 years old before you get her.

Just my 2cents worth.
Good luck















4


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I wouldn’t, seems an awful lot to pay for a horse that you only want to pop over 2’ on. In that price range the options must be huge, without the complication of having a mare who is going to carry a foal for someone else. I can’t see any upside here for you.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

No. Just walk away. She wants another foal not only her dime but her time as well. 20k for something you can't expect to go over 2 feet with? No. 1/4 of that price and you know she's fit and sound for 2ft as well as being safe and able to teach you then something to consider but no baby on board.


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## Harktak (Mar 12, 2021)

This person is trying to take advantage of you. Run. If it were me, I would not use her as a trainer either. I can't stand people like this.


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> First, how do you feel about it? I sense you have reservations which is hardly surprising.
> 
> It is quite a commitment to care for an in-foal mare on behalf of someone else. $20,000 is an awful lot of money for a horse past its best plus the value of a well-bred foal (remember this is a loss to you even if your trainer pays some costs. Though you do have the option to breed another good horse for yourself later.
> 
> ...





ShirtHotTeez said:


> First, how do you feel about it? I sense you have reservations which is hardly surprising.
> 
> It is quite a commitment to care for an in-foal mare on behalf of someone else. $20,000 is an awful lot of money for a horse past its best plus the value of a well-bred foal (remember this is a loss to you even if your trainer pays some costs. Though you do have the option to breed another good horse for yourself later.
> 
> ...


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

QtrBel said:


> No. Just walk away. She wants another foal not only her dime but her time as well. 20k for something you can't expect to go over 2 feet with? No. 1/4 of that price and you know she's fit and sound for 2ft as well as being safe and able to teach you then something to consider but no baby on board.


I think my reservation mostly is when she is done having the foal she will be 15, I think that’s past the ideal age to have another baby, but I don’t think I’d go that way anyway. What are your thought I offered to pay the $20k but embryonic method? The hard part for me is the actual bond I build with her then she gets taken away for 6 months. At what price would you consider a situation like this?


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Harktak said:


> This person is trying to take advantage of you. Run. If it were me, I would not use her as a trainer either. I can't stand people like this.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I think I’d be wondering why the mare was retired from competition at quite a young age - if she’s already had four foals she hasn’t competed for quite a while.
14 isn’t really that old for a horse that possibly didn’t compete at top level for long, two foot is nothing for a sound, talented horse.
I wouldn’t get into that arrangement unless the current owner is willing to fully compensate you if the mare were to die during the pregnancy or foaling, if the cause of death was directly related 

If the mare is sound, talented, a good schoolmaster type, has a good competition record and has good breeding, then $20K isn’t a bad price - but not on the breeding contract the seller wants.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I agree that the price isn’t a bad price, if she is what they claim. You also likely know her and are comfortable with her.

I just don’t know when you add in the foal. Can you talk to her and tell her that foaling a mare makes you uncomfortable? Maybe she thinks the mare is a 30k horse, and she’s taking that 10k off in her mind.

This is said with the theory that the mare is everything she is claimed to be. I would ask to do a vet check. Anything can happen to any horse, but it would give you an idea on if she is sound and healthy, and what problems she may have and to what management any problem could require. If you don’t plan on moving the horse, maybe she plans on doing all of that work.

I will go against the grain here and say I would consider it if I were in your shoes.


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

jaydee said:


> I think I’d be wondering why the mare was retired from competition at quite a young age - if she’s already had four foals she hasn’t competed for quite a while.
> 14 isn’t really that old for a horse that possibly didn’t compete at top level for long, two foot is nothing for a sound, talented horse.
> I wouldn’t get into that arrangement unless the current owner is willing to fully compensate you if the mare were to die during the pregnancy or foaling, if the cause of death was directly related
> 
> If the mare is sound, talented, a good schoolmaster type, has a good competition record and has good breeding, then $20K isn’t a bad price - but not on the breeding contract the seller wants.


Ok, thank you for your reply!!!


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Halo88888 said:


> Hi,
> Wondering anyone’s thoughts on this sale. My trainer wants to sell me her ex Grand Prix Holsteiner mare who she has already had 4 babies. She is 14yrs old. She can’t jump that high anymore or shouldn’t which I don’t plan on jumping higher than 2ft. The trainer paid $55k for her at 7. She said she would sell her to me for $20k but she wanted one more baby from her. She also said she would cover the cost to take care of the mare once she needs to be taken out of work to get ready for birth and ween. I was wondering if this is typical or worth it?


Just wanted to add that this horse can jump really big no problem


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

I wouldn't touch that deal with a 10 foot pole.

Tell her to foal the mare out herself, and if you're still interested at weaning time, contact you then. 

Too many thing can go wrong between now and weaning time. Nope, not doing that.


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Zimalia22 said:


> I wouldn't touch that deal with a 10 foot pole.
> 
> Tell her to foal the mare out herself, and if you're still interested at weaning time, contact you then.
> 
> Too many thing can go wrong between now and weaning time. Nope, not doing that.


so you’d consider the purchase after the foal? What are your thoughts on embryonic methods?


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Knave said:


> I agree that the price isn’t a bad price, if she is what they claim. You also likely know her and are comfortable with her.
> 
> I just don’t know when you add in the foal. Can you talk to her and tell her that foaling a mare makes you uncomfortable? Maybe she thinks the mare is a 30k horse, and she’s taking that 10k off in her mind.
> 
> ...


 I appreciate your honesty the mare is actually in very good health. She will be safe for me and a lot of horses out there that are good safe, trained horses are around this price


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Halo88888 said:


> Thank you for the response, I think that was my greatest concern. She’s past her prime, although I do not intend to do big jumps as she has been so a well trained horse could be good for me and maybe look into dressage. She has a lot of skills. but she wouldn’t really be mine until after the foal is born and weened. I also consider on more breed for her but that would be another year of her gone at 16 and I think that she is risking it at the 6th foal. The trainer did say that during the time she is out of work she would find me other horses to ride in the stable and just pay for lessons no board. It was buy or pay lease fee for her. Maybe a half payment before the horse goes away to give birth and the rest after she gets back will full vet check.


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Knave said:


> I agree that the price isn’t a bad price, if she is what they claim. You also likely know her and are comfortable with her.
> 
> I just don’t know when you add in the foal. Can you talk to her and tell her that foaling a mare makes you uncomfortable? Maybe she thinks the mare is a 30k horse, and she’s taking that 10k off in her mind.
> 
> ...


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Yes, I would, if I had that kind of money. I would if I was comfortable with the woman, knowing she was going to do everything required in the pregnancy and foaling, accepting the idea that bad things happen and the mare could end up dying. I don’t think that’s likely, but bad things happen just the same.

ETA- she is a beauty! I also would like the embryo transfer idea best, but that’s only because I know nothing about it. Lol. Maybe it is hard on a mare, but it seems like it wouldn’t be.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Nope, no, no and more no....

No stipulations once you own the mare is yours. When you own you do with her as you want or not want....there are no stipulations when you pay that amount of money for a aged horse and one with limitations on abilities today versus 5 years ago it sounds.
If the current owner wants another baby, let them breed the mare, take the risks associated with aging and birth and get a baby on the ground before selling her.
What is being proposed is you buying and not having use of the mare for about a year and there are no guarantees of her abilities after a year off either.

She was a costly {??} mare at that time, now retired and went from high levels of fences to 2' in height makes me want to know how come they backed off so much.  
Grand Prix animals are worth a lot of money, a 2' horse is significantly less and....
Keeping you to foot the expenses for their hobby is not in your best interest.
I have problems with people like this, in general in life They are called users.....
For me, I would not purchase any animal from or through this person after this "deal" they want to do....

Deals like this may be done with "ex"-racehorses, and under certain special conditions...but you wanting to just have a 2' horse makes me feel you are being unloaded a horse who _can't_ do their job anymore effortlessly...and being the mare has 4 babies currently on the ground...she has not been a competition animal during that time...so now you refer to a horse "retired" at 9 - 10 years of age....you don't do Grand Prix without being in tip-top condition...
_Something smells fishy to me. _

Walk, slam the door and the answer is no to this deal...
All the risk sits on you...and no $$ either should bad happen.
Nope, just no.
🐴...


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Knave said:


> Yes, I would, if I had that kind of money. I would if I was comfortable with the woman, knowing she was going to do everything required in the pregnancy and foaling, accepting the idea that bad things happen and the mare could end up dying. I don’t think that’s likely, but bad things happen just the same.
> 
> ETA- she is a beauty! I also would like the embryo transfer idea best, but that’s only because I know nothing about it. Lol. Maybe it is hard on a mare, but it seems like it wouldn’t be.


Thank you for your reply! Yeah she is gorgeous and she has been taken care of. I think a deposit of $5k down and I cover board up until she needs to go is reasonable. If something doesn’t work out then I get deposit back. If she is fine after then I pay balance. Appreciate you sharing your opinion this site is so helpful!


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

horselovinguy said:


> Nope, no, no and more no....
> 
> No stipulations once you own the mare is yours. When you own you do with her as you want or not want....there are no stipulations when you pay that amount of money for a aged horse and one with limitations on abilities today versus 5 years ago it sounds.
> If the current owner wants another baby, let them breed the mare, take the risks associated with aging and birth and get a baby on the ground before selling her.
> ...


This is very good information to consider. I’ll need to do two things sounds like…. The trainer has been leasing her out in between births. She has several horses. I will have her for a month before I make any deal with her. Would you consider if she could still jump and was in good health without the foal? What would you pay?


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

Halo88888 said:


> This is very good information to consider. I’ll need to do two things sounds like…. The trainer has been leasing her out in between births. She has several horses. I will have her for a month before I make any deal with her. Would you consider if she could still jump and was in good health without the foal? What would you pay?


I probably should clarify that she is capable of jumping high but the trainer implied that she needs to slow that down and she thought someone like me who is doing lower level would be good for her


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

I’m hung up on the fact that a horse usually doesn’t jump Grand Prix height nationally until 8 or 9. 8 is very very young to jump that height. I wonder why this mare was then bred at 9 or 10 years old. Have you looked at her USEF record?


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

updownrider said:


> I’m hung up on the fact that a horse usually doesn’t jump Grand Prix height nationally until 8 or 9. 8 is very very young to jump that height. I wonder why this mare was then bred at 9 or 10 years old. Have you looked at her USEF record?


No, I don’t know about this. How do I find out?


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

I have seen deals like this go south when things start to go wrong, I would pass in a heart beat, This women should breed the mare while SHE owns it and after the baby is weaned then sell the mare, looks like to me shes not wanting to pay the board on her so she found someone that will, NOPE thats a hard pass for me!! You just be aware that some contracts can be broken.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

She is 15 years old come January 1st....2 weeks away.
I guess the price is probably average for a horse that is a 2' horse today, but the fact she has not been a true competition animal in serious training if she has been a baby producer for the last 5 of the 7 years this "trainer" has owned her...
I just have some difficulty in paying that and taking it at face value.

It would be one heck of a PPE exam by the very best lameness and movement evaluation vets in the region, not just your area.
I would leave nothing unexplored....in skeletal and musculature, all is going to be tested when you are referring to taking on a baby-maker not a competition animal. Her legs also need in-depth study since she has been a baby-mommy maker and that is another stressors on a body.
It truly bothers me though that at the peak of a career she would suddenly be pulled gone and become a mommy over and over.... It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and a bad feeling in my gut.
updownrider opens some very serious truths you need information on and you need to dig for those answers....in her coming prime she disappeared.... 

The more I think about this....
I would walk and go in search of a different horse with no strings attached, and one who has a current show record.
Your $$ is welcome spent anywhere....no strings attached. This trainer wants "strings attached" just really rubs me the wrong way.
Realize that no one is going to divulge issues negative on any sale prospect...it is your and your vets job to find, uncover and evaluate if what is present you can live with, afford to have and take-on...
🐴


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

My Salty Pony said:


> I have seen deals like this go south when things start to go wrong, I would pass in a heart beat, This women should breed the mare while SHE owns it and after the baby is weaned then sell the mare, looks like to me shes not wanting to pay the board on her so she found someone that will, NOPE thats a hard pass for me!! You just be aware that some contracts can be broken.





My Salty Pony said:


> I have seen deals like this go south when things start to go wrong, I would pass in a heart beat, This women should breed the mare while SHE owns it and after the baby is weaned then sell the mare, looks like to me shes not wanting to pay the board on her so she found someone that will, NOPE thats a hard pass for me!! You just be aware that some contracts can be broken.


That’s is a reasonable response. She wanted me to have a good horse now since I do not have one. However she does want one more foal from her horse so she was at an in between there. I’m sure she can still sell her after the baby for $20k but I’m not paying the full amount upfront. Just deposit. Then after the mare has the baby and I get her back I can pay the rest or pass.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

Halo88888 said:


> That’s is a reasonable response. She wanted me to have a good horse now since I do not have one. However she does want one more foal from her horse so she was at an in between there. I’m sure she can still sell her after the baby for $20k but I’m not paying the full amount upfront. Just deposit. Then after the mare has the baby and I get her back I can pay the rest or pass.


Hope it all works out for you, you sound like a really nice person, Good luck to ya!!!


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

This would be one heck of a legal document written up by lawyers to protect you and your investment...
Who carries the insurance policy or do you both?
Who is responsible for the costs of baby in utero?
Who pays while a weanling and bit older is nursing on the mare for vet care?
Who pays board and farrier costs?
Who calls the shots for work done undersaddle and when it is time to stop...?
Who makes the decision when to wean and whose name the foal is in since...well you *do* have a stake in the momma?
And who gets left with a end result of a nightmare baby that could happen and she want nothing to do with it?

This and many other "outs" you need to be aware of in breeding agreements and get on the ground..
What happens when all  hits the fan...............it happens and far more often than you are made aware of.
Don't get left unprotected cause she is protecting her and making a large amount of $$ with this deal...mark my words on that!
🐴....


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

horselovinguy said:


> This would be one heck of a legal document written up by lawyers to protect you and your investment...
> Who carries the insurance policy or do you both?
> Who is responsible for the costs of baby in utero?
> Who pays while a weanling and bit older is nursing on the mare for vet care?
> ...


I think you make some really good points here. I think I will only move forward with a refundable deposit on the mare if something goes wrong. If she is fine afterwards then we will pay the full amount. I am hoping she will consider an embryo transfer though instead.


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

She is 15 in 2024


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

@Halo88888 - to look up a horse’s USEF record you can do a horse search from the USEF website. If you are not a member I can do it for you if you want. You can message me the name of the horse and owner name or just last name.


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## milady133 (Jun 7, 2021)

Halo88888 said:


> she has been leased out In between her foals and the last leased jumped her very high A LOT so she was considering leasing to someone to where she isn’t worked too hard anymore.


I feel like the owner doesn't really want to sell the horse, she can't afford/doesn't have the time to maintain it with the other horses already owned, so is looking to sell to someone that s/he can still control afterwards, so s/he is going to want to have a say on want happens to the mare even if s/he doesn't own her anymore.

You say you don't have much experience, for me it's a lot of money for a beginner horse, but I don't know what the prices are in your area (that can really vary a lot) and what you are aiming for with the horse: only some amateur/local eventing or training for more serious shows. If you don't have much experience having the previous owner dictating how to take care of the mare can be a good thing if you are of the same mind and you want to rely on his/her experience, but if you disagree later on, it can be a problem.

Really, I would look into leasing the mare, not buying her, and later on, after foaling, I would consider buying if still interested, you'll have more experience, and you've had time to look around other barns and options to make a note informed decision, if this has been the only barn and classes you have taken a look, that's another option to consider not buying yet (I say this only because of your comment that you don't have much experience, "not much experience" is a term subjective to every person)


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## Halo88888 (23 d ago)

milady133 said:


> I feel like the owner doesn't really want to sell the horse, she can't afford/doesn't have the time to maintain it with the other horses already owned, so is looking to sell to someone that s/he can still control afterwards, so s/he is going to want to have a say on want happens to the mare even if s/he doesn't own her anymore.
> 
> You say you don't have much experience, for me it's a lot of money for a beginner horse, but I don't know what the prices are in your area (that can really vary a lot) and what you are aiming for with the horse: only some amateur/local eventing or training for more serious shows. If you don't have much experience having the previous owner dictating how to take care of the mare can be a good thing if you are of the same mind and you want to rely on his/her experience, but if you disagree later on, it can be a problem.
> 
> Really, I would look into leasing the mare, not buying her, and later on, after foaling, I would consider buying if still interested, you'll have more experience, and you've had time to look around other barns and options to make a note informed decision, if this has been the only barn and classes you have taken a look, that's another option to consider not buying yet (I say this only because of your comment that you don't have much experience, "not much experience" is a term subjective to every person)


This is a really accurate reply. I believe she doesn’t want to sell her either but she does have 3 babies and two or three I think grown horses she is training. I don’t mind her involvement it is helpful but she said I could take the mare anywhere if I chose after she has the foal. She was actually pitching to me a lease so…. I’d pay up until she has to go away to have the baby. I now this first 6-8 months will be lease with option to buy. Then pay rest after she returns if I want to buy. But you are right, it’s be best to look at other places but I do love all the people at this barn and we use and take care of one another’s horses it’s a very rare place indeed.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Halo88888 said:


> I think my reservation mostly is when she is done having the foal she will be 15, I think that’s past the ideal age to have another baby, but I don’t think I’d go that way anyway. What are your thought I offered to pay the $20k but embryonic method? The hard part for me is the actual bond I build with her then she gets taken away for 6 months. At what price would you consider a situation like this?


No. Not at that age with limitations. Now if you were serious about dressage and she's proven as well as you being capable of riding her to a higher level in recognized shows and winning - possibly. Not bred or under the plan your trainer laid out.

There's a greater expense for embryo transfer that your trainer may not want to pay for. I wouldn't worry much with a mare that has had several and foaled out without problems if I were breeding for myself but in this situation? No.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

jaydee said:


> 14 isn’t really that old for a horse that possibly didn’t compete at top level for long, two foot is nothing for a sound, talented horse.


Yes, my Pony jumps 2'6 with the trainer and two feet with me (and I'm a terrible rider) and has no problems with it. And he's just a pony and not particularly athletic. Him, he's still on his way "up", if that makes sense. The trainer feels like he could consistently jump 2'6. Whereas the horse you are talking about, it seems like she's on the way down. She's an ex-this and ex-that, but all of those ex things aren't doing you any good now. The horse market is still crazy, but I think around here such a horse might sell for 10k. Assuming she really was sound, and that she was a babysitter horse that was completely reliable and never acted up. Jumping two feet isn't really that much. What will you do when you want to jump higher?


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

horselovinguy said:


> This would be one heck of a legal document written up by lawyers to protect you and your investment...
> Who carries the insurance policy or do you both?
> Who is responsible for the costs of baby in utero?
> Who pays while a weanling and bit older is nursing on the mare for vet care?
> ...


All of this to think about, what HLG wrote.
@Halo88888 ;Have had a few friends that went in together on breeding a mare, One owned the mare and the other one had a free breeding to a friends stallion, they were best of friends at the time untill who was going to pay for what came up, and when it came to the baby thats when all the problems started, so and so(Owner of the mare) put the time into taking care of the mare while in foal and then the baby when it was born and the other so and so (that got the free breeding) was paying for feed and hay and farrier,and so and so (mare owner) was the owner of the land and stall the mare and baby was being kept on, non of it balanced out and then the fight was on and got nasty and all the contracts they signed between the two of them was just a piece of paper..They were going to sell the baby and make a profit and split it between them. Mare owner got to keep the baby and the other friend lost her free breeding, feed money and farrier money. It got really stinky.. Stuff does happen


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

*MOD NOTE* 
Thread closed.


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