# Riding Lesson Advice



## Courageous (Aug 31, 2017)

I am going to get horse riding lessons from a lady, who does not do this as a job. She wants to know what I ultimately want to do. I have a dream of Show Jumping (probably not professionally, just for fun). I was wondering what basics and more I should learn to start my path on this dream. Just looking for suggestions. I don't have a horse at the present time but I have worked with a few. I do know the lady will teach me all I need to know, I just wanted to know what you all thought was vital in making a goal of correct English riding. Thanks!!

:faceshot:


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Your instructor is smart to ask you ahead of time what your goals or dreams are concerning horses. I do the same and for those who want to end up owning, I throw in a _lot_ of horse care and horsemanship not related to riding. Of course, these goals may change a little or a lot as you start and then continue on your horse journey. 

Get your basics down before you worry about the specifics. A lot of my students don't show horses or have any interest in it but when I teach, I do try to make sure they do things right and wouldn't look like absolute fools if they were to try it. 

Even though I start _all_ of my beginners Western, (no spurs ever!) I allow them to move to English once they have obtained balance, rhythm and the _ability to "talk" gently to a horse using a direct rein and use proper leg control. _Beginners are notoriously hard on horses mouths so my newbies must learn to control their hands! 

Even while riding Western, I teach them basic dressage techniques as I believe that no matter what style you ride, dressage can teach you to really communicate with a horse. My students end up easily switching back and forth, Western/English and not only look correct/good but are _effective_ riders. 

This happens because of solid, correct basics which should be close to the same no matter what discipline you choose. The fine tuning comes later.

Good luck and have fun!!


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

My biggest piece of advice: don't be in a hurry to start jumping. Take as long as it takes to be balanced and confident at all speeds before you add that in. There are so many things you need to know to be great at jumping BEFORE the actual jumps even become a factor!


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

I remember when I first started my lessons I really disliked them. (This was 9+years ago). I had so many bad experiences. My confidence went down and I wasn't paired with the right instructor or horses. I didn't progress, if anything, I learned bad habits. Thankfully I am at a stables now I am finally enjoying and progressing with.

One of the biggest struggles I had was physical limitations from being out of shape. To anyone that says "the horse does all the work" ... they can bug off! Riding is VERY hard on your body if you're not used to it. At least, it was for me. I only took lessons every other week so I never was able to build those muscles properly. I would recommend doing exercises that build your muscles. I think there are YouTube channels that have some suggestions. 

Have your instructor take video of you so you can see yourself riding. This helped me a lot. As great as it is to have an instructor telling you what you need to do, I benefit from watching myself. Somebody videoed me the other day when I was riding a green horse at a canter. My instructor has been working with me on improving my seat at the canter and I had a hard time "getting it" but once I watch watched a video I saw what she meant and have worked on it since. And have been doing better.

Most important, have fun! You'll have good and bad days. It's worth it!


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## Courageous (Aug 31, 2017)

Chasin Ponies said:


> Your instructor is smart to ask you ahead of time what your goals or dreams are concerning horses. I do the same and for those who want to end up owning, I throw in a _lot_ of horse care and horsemanship not related to riding. Of course, these goals may change a little or a lot as you start and then continue on your horse journey.
> 
> Get your basics down before you worry about the specifics. A lot of my students don't show horses or have any interest in it but when I teach, I do try to make sure they do things right and wouldn't look like absolute fools if they were to try it.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the advice. I agree with no spurs. So why the western saddle? Is it just easier to balance in? Dressage, hmm. That is really interesting. Thank you for everything. You were really helpful!!


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## Courageous (Aug 31, 2017)

SteadyOn said:


> My biggest piece of advice: don't be in a hurry to start jumping. Take as long as it takes to be balanced and confident at all speeds before you add that in. There are so many things you need to know to be great at jumping BEFORE the actual jumps even become a factor!


Oh yes!! Definitely not. Although I may not own horses, I have worked with many animals. Patience is everything! Not only for me but for the horse as well. What are some things that are super important to now before jumping?  What gaits are the hardest to ride?? How best could I exercise my body to get into shape for proper horseback riding? Thank you for the advice. I do have a habit of wanting to rush things. It is always good to have a reminder!


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

Courageous said:


> What are some things that are super important to now before jumping?  What gaits are the hardest to ride?? How best could I exercise my body to get into shape for proper horseback riding?


Balance is key. Too many people start jumping too fast just to say they're jumping. In my _opinion, _ I think the rider should be able to comfortably ride the horse at a canter and perform basic dressage movements (such as a figure 8 or circle) at the canter before jumping. The reason I say that is because I started jumping before I could do those things and my jumping was choppy, unbalanced, and just generally not very pretty. 

I think most people find that the canter is the hardest gait to ride. It's a very powerful gait and takes a lot of balance and finesse to ride well.

I did squats when I started riding. :smile:


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

Courageous said:


> Thank you so much for the advice. I agree with no spurs. So why the western saddle? Is it just easier to balance in? Dressage, hmm. That is really interesting. Thank you for everything. You were really helpful!!


I truly believe that when a person gets on a horse and starts really riding as a beginner, they are shocked by how much movement there is up there and how hard it is to keep your balance initially! Yeah, it looks easy on TV and from the ground but there is so much going on that it's easy to become overwhelmed. This is also why when I teach kids that I try to convince at least one parent to mount up and take a "pony ride" being lead around the arena a couple of times! They suddenly realize that this is not just sitting there and it's not easy!

For most beginners, a Western saddle has so much more mass, with the cantle and the fork/horn area helping to hold them in, that it makes them more confident of not falling while learning the basics.

I myself grew up with hunter/jumpers and had an extremely, tough, strict and crabby instructor. She pushed so hard that at first I fell off almost every single lesson riding hunt seat. I was so passionate about it all that I kept riding and yes, I learned a lot but it was rough. I really don't want to put my students through that experience although I do expect them to be challenged and fall off later! Most of the kids who took lessons from my strict instructor back in the day, quit after 2 or 3 falls!

On my Western bridles I use a bit with 2 rings, one at the mouth to mimic a snaffle and the other on the shank. On the reins I have swivel snaps so that I can switch the student back and forth between neck reining and direct rein. I believe in good, quiet, sympathetic hands for both. Once they can follow the horse's mouth, then they get to go direct rein more and more and then switch fully to hunt seat. Like I said, I am not willing to have my horse's mouths yanked and hung on so it's a graduation thing. 

The dressage I teach is very basic, but using the entire body to communicate, not just the obvious hands and legs. We are trying to make it look like magic-the horse is responding to the rider but an observer can see no obvious cues!


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

horseylover1_1 said:


> I think the rider should be able to comfortably ride the horse at a canter and perform basic dressage movements (such as a figure 8 or circle) at the canter before jumping. The reason I say that is because I started jumping before I could do those things and my jumping was choppy, unbalanced, and just generally not very pretty.
> 
> :


Quick question, cantering a figure 8 involves a flying change. Around here it is considered an "advanced" move and very few school or begginer-friendly horses are actually trained to do it. But a lot of students are jumping small jumps (myself included) without doing flying changes.

Do you think that is wrong? I seem to be doing great with jumping without the flying changes. I am actually teaching my mare to jump, she's never done it before and she loves it. Should I stop jumping and try and teach her flying changes first? Just to clarify, I'm talking cavalletti and tiny little jumps, nothing taller than an enthusiastic mole-hill hight


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

If any beginning rider, came out to ride one of my hroses, even if that horse was trained to fully ride one handed in a curb, that horse got a plain snaffle.
I think hands must be educated, before they ever are allowed on the reins of a curb, plus that balance and independent seat must be there, jMO
Certainly no spurs. My kids never got to wear spurs until they were good riders, thus could keep spurs off a horse, unless they intended to touch a horse with them, and then only in the approved manner of using them only as secondary cue to ignored light leg aids that a horse understands, and only tot he degree required.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Horsef said:


> Quick question, cantering a figure 8 involves a flying change. Around here it is considered an "advanced" move and very few school or begginer-friendly horses are actually trained to do it. But a lot of students are jumping small jumps (myself included) without doing flying changes.
> 
> Do you think that is wrong? I seem to be doing great with jumping without the flying changes. I am actually teaching my mare to jump, she's never done it before and she loves it. Should I stop jumping and try and teach her flying changes first? Just to clarify, I'm talking cavalletti and tiny little jumps, nothing taller than an enthusiastic mole-hill hight


I always thought of it as something the rider needs to learn more than the horse. A horse, when escaping predators and going left or right, knows how to change leads that give it the best turns, but a rider needs to communicate to the horse that she indicates a change of direction and give the horse a chance to respond appropriately.

I never quite got lead changes in the arena, but when cantering through the woods on a bendy trail, you have a high incentive to communicate to the horse to avoid the next tree by turning urgently. That turn may or may not correspond to the "current lead". When I took my horse to the arena once after doing this for a while and cantered a figure-8, my instructor said, "You just performed two perfect flying lead changes!"

I don't know if she was ever "taught" those - she's an ex-racer with minimal after-track training. Certainly nobody ever sought to train her for any kind of show. I believe a flying lead change is something the horse does for the sake of taking the next turn efficiently, and the rider is responsible for timing the cues to enable the horse to execute it. 

I don't think counter-cantering is that big a deal...especially if it's not endless hours of repetitive drills. If the horse feels uncomfortable with it, it'll perform a lead change on its own.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

mmshiro said:


> I always thought of it as something the rider needs to learn more than the horse. A horse, when escaping predators and going left or right, knows how to change leads that give it the best turns, but a rider needs to communicate to the horse that she indicates a change of direction and give the horse a chance to respond appropriately.
> 
> I never quite got lead changes in the arena, but when cantering through the woods on a bendy trail, you have a high incentive to communicate to the horse to avoid the next tree by turning urgently. That turn may or may not correspond to the "current lead". When I took my horse to the arena once after doing this for a while and cantered a figure-8, my instructor said, "You just performed two perfect flying lead changes!"
> 
> ...


Oh, ok, thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of doing a proper dressage flying change, even on a straight line. We do the utility-based ones on trails just fine - a tree in the way somehow gets us sorted out just fine  I'll try a figure 8 in school as well, maybe it works.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Horsef said:


> Oh, ok, thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of doing a proper dressage flying change, even on a straight line. We do the utility-based ones on trails just fine - a tree in the way somehow gets us sorted out just fine  I'll try a figure 8 in school as well, maybe it works.


It's anticipation of the impending change of direction that causes the horse to change leads. If you make the turn radius bigger and bigger after the lead change, it'll turn into a lead change in the straight. You can try that on the trail, and instead of going around an actual tree, pretend you are dodging trees in the middle of your trail, left and right. Or, from your edge of the trail, focus on an object on the opposite edge farther down, and "turn" into that. Depending on the width of the trail, you'll be almost on a straight, and if you do it gradually, your horse will pick up what you are putting down. 

I'm not sure how to distinguish "proper" dressage lead changes from the ones you horse does because they are a useful "utility" to him. Isn't dressage to emphasize the natural function of the horse? Rather than introducing artificial elements that are counter to its physiology and biomechanics, just because they "look pretty"?


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## horseylover1_1 (Feb 13, 2008)

Horsef said:


> Quick question, cantering a figure 8 involves a flying change. Around here it is considered an "advanced" move and very few school or begginer-friendly horses are actually trained to do it. But a lot of students are jumping small jumps (myself included) without doing flying changes.
> 
> Do you think that is wrong? I seem to be doing great with jumping without the flying changes. I am actually teaching my mare to jump, she's never done it before and she loves it. Should I stop jumping and try and teach her flying changes first? Just to clarify, I'm talking cavalletti and tiny little jumps, nothing taller than an enthusiastic mole-hill hight


Sorry, I'll clarify. I'm not referring to flying lead changes. My point was that I feel a rider should be able to maneuver the horse left and right at the canter and not be limited to riding in an arena one direction and/or on a straight away. I'll use me as an example. I've had 8 lessons so far and cantering is my Achilles heel. I can ride pretty well in the arena one direction but I have a hard time doing anything except going forward. So I don't feel like I am ready to jump. My seat is not strong enough to handle the horse turning at a canter, so I have absolutely no business trying to maneuver jumps.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Courageous said:


> Oh yes!! Definitely not. Although I may not own horses, I have worked with many animals. Patience is everything! Not only for me but for the horse as well. What are some things that are super important to now before jumping?  What gaits are the hardest to ride?? How best could I exercise my body to get into shape for proper horseback riding? Thank you for the advice. I do have a habit of wanting to rush things. It is always good to have a reminder!


Among other things, I'd say you should be able to maintain two-point steadily at both the trot and the canter, around the ring and also on a circle, both directions, with a loose rein and without holding mane or leaning on the horse's neck. If you're stable enough to do that without tipping or using your hands for balance, you're stable enough to start over some small jumps. As to how to get there, your coach should be able to answer those questions and assign some stretches and exercises that will help target your weaknesses, as everyone is different!


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

All riding is strength, timing, feel and balance. 

I add strength because there is a certain level of strength and fitness that all great riders achieve. Posting for miles, standing the long trot, clear strong leg cues, even getting on the horse without wrenching their back. 

Western and English are funny terms in a way because in each there are things that take an athletic rider and horse and things that really don't. 

Take your time to focus on the four main things, and you'll do great with anything you decide to do with horses. 

Spurs are a huge topic by themselves. I'm in the camp that you need to develop all four things to a point you can ride effectively without spurs and adding the correct spur for you and your horse adds polish to what you can already do. 

Someday when you can ride anything with hair you can do what you want. For now consider them to be like teaching a kid to drive in a Porsche. The chances of doing the wrong thing and having a wreck are likely. 

Good luck and have fun!


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

mmshiro said:


> It's anticipation of the impending change of direction that causes the horse to change leads. If you make the turn radius bigger and bigger after the lead change, it'll turn into a lead change in the straight. You can try that on the trail, and instead of going around an actual tree, pretend you are dodging trees in the middle of your trail, left and right. Or, from your edge of the trail, focus on an object on the opposite edge farther down, and "turn" into that. Depending on the width of the trail, you'll be almost on a straight, and if you do it gradually, your horse will pick up what you are putting down.
> 
> I'm not sure how to distinguish "proper" dressage lead changes from the ones you horse does because they are a useful "utility" to him. Isn't dressage to emphasize the natural function of the horse? Rather than introducing artificial elements that are counter to its physiology and biomechanics, just because they "look pretty"?


Dressage isn't something I'm well versed in, but I think it aims to develop and show off the level of control the rider has over the horse. In the example of a flying change, a properly trained horse with a good rider will be able to change leads without changing direction. It does have "utility" in a sense that it develops greater control over the horse (than I currently have). For example, a flying change on a straight line is used to balance the use of horses musculature on long straight stretches which the horse wouldn't do on their own. Am I making sense? Hopefully

Sorry, I seem to have derailed the original topic.


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## Courageous (Aug 31, 2017)

Had my first lesson today!! My instructor was amazing and knew exactly when I was ready for something. I walked, trotted, and loped. Backed up, posted and did two-point (at a walk). It was so super fun but I never realized how hard it is to keep your heels down. Does it ever become instinct?? And will my legs slowly build muscle? I mean I work out and posting was difficult!! But I had fun and learned a bunch. I also learned I know way less then what I thought I did. LOL thank you all for the advice and help! Got any more?  I can see why squats are helpful as well. And please feel free to diverse from the main topic. There is so much I don't know!!


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Courageous said:


> Had my first lesson today!! My instructor was amazing and knew exactly when I was ready for something. I walked, trotted, and loped. Backed up, posted and did two-point (at a walk). It was so super fun but I never realized how hard it is to keep your heels down. Does it ever become instinct?? And will my legs slowly build muscle? I mean I work out and posting was difficult!! But I had fun and learned a bunch. I also learned I know way less then what I thought I did. LOL thank you all for the advice and help! Got any more?  I can see why squats are helpful as well. And please feel free to diverse from the main topic. There is so much I don't know!!


Yes, those things absolutely can and will become habitual if you keep working at them! When your heel is dropped the right amount, and you've gained the strength and flexibility to keep it there, it'll feel *right* and you'll be inclined to keep it there.

Think about it this way: what gives you more shock absorption? The ball of your foot pushing against something fixed, like the stirrup bar (which is what happens when your heels are up), or your ankle flexing down into your heel, dropped behind the stirrup with the ability to rise and drop depending on how much weight is pushed into it? A heel dropped the right amount does great things: it helps you follow and absorb some of the motion of the horse and makes you feel more stable and comfortable. It gives you a certain amount of room to bounce back if you lose your balance, too. It also engages your calf muscle and lays it against the horse's side in the most effective way for applying your leg. 

Important tip though: be careful not to overdo it and jam your heels too far down. That will take away that springiness and push your leg too far forward. As long as your heel is down enough to be working for you, there's no need to worry about really *pushing* it down. The flexibility will come over time!

I like to stand on the edge of a step and hold the hand rail, and stretch my heels down while I balance on the balls of my feet to get a really good calf stretch. Doing that regularly at home will help you get your heels down when you ride!


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Courageous said:


> Had my first lesson today!! My instructor was amazing and knew exactly when I was ready for something. I walked, trotted, and loped. Backed up, posted and did two-point (at a walk). It was so super fun but I never realized how hard it is to keep your heels down. Does it ever become instinct?? And will my legs slowly build muscle? I mean I work out and posting was difficult!! But I had fun and learned a bunch. I also learned I know way less then what I thought I did. LOL thank you all for the advice and help! Got any more?  I can see why squats are helpful as well. And please feel free to diverse from the main topic. There is so much I don't know!!


Well done on doing all of that in your first lesson!

You will build "riding" muscles with time. Obviously, it will go faster if if you ride a lot.

Also, if you wear high heels a lot your Achilles' tendon might have shortened but even that isn't a problem. As far as I know, everybody gets there sooner or later without too much trouble (except for ballet dancers - they have to stop any intense riding if they want to do en-pointe work. Isn't that interesting?)


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yes, we do not teach horses flying lead changes, as they do them all the time out in the pasture, using speed and change of direction.
Thus, there are two ways of doing flying changes, when riding. On an athletic horse, going at speed, changing direction suddenly, that horse is going to change leads, so he won;t fall down
pole bending horses will change leads, going at speed, but that does not mean they have been taught to do flying changes, at precise locations, and independent of direction change For that you need to teach body position and have some refinement on the horse that cues the hrose for that change, whether in a straight line, or with a direction change, and without speeding up for that change, changing both in front and in back, with that change starting in the back, coming through to the front.
Often, when the rider just focus on the lead change in front, forcing it by change of direction, the horse will change in front, butt draga hind lead


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

mmshiro said:


> It's anticipation of the impending change of direction that causes the horse to change leads. If you make the turn radius bigger and bigger after the lead change, it'll turn into a lead change in the straight. You can try that on the trail, and instead of going around an actual tree, pretend you are dodging trees in the middle of your trail, left and right. Or, from your edge of the trail, focus on an object on the opposite edge farther down, and "turn" into that. Depending on the width of the trail, you'll be almost on a straight, and if you do it gradually, your horse will pick up what you are putting down.
> 
> I'm not sure how to distinguish "proper" dressage lead changes from the ones you horse does because they are a useful "utility" to him. Isn't dressage to emphasize the natural function of the horse? Rather than introducing artificial elements that are counter to its physiology and biomechanics, just because they "look pretty"?



That is the point, far as a lead change just out of direction change, and a refined , cued lead change, where that hrose will execute a flying change, without a change of direction needed, and at a precise marker
The flying change out of speed and direction change, does not require any advanced training, and an athletic horse will just do it, to avoid falling down!

In fact, my first lessons in flying lead changes,were built around that. I was taking a clinic with Pat Whize. He had us go across the center of the arena, at speed, step into the old lead stirrup, thus un loading new lead side, then suddenly turn the horse in the new direction. Will the wall coming up, that horse changed!

Not until I got further into my riding learning path, taking clinic from people that did events like reining and western riding, did I learn how to teach flying changes out of body control, versus re lying on speed and change of direction.
For those not familiar with western riding, you ride a pattern through cones and change leads at precise locations between those markers.

Here is an example, and note, it is ridden on a loose rein. Without that training, no way would you ride that pattern, just using speed and direction change


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Here is a simple way to think of flying lead changes, while answering the question as to what a series of flying lead changes are 

They are not a series of direction changes, per say, but rather a series of opposite lead departures without changing gait

Thus, great lead departures are a basic requirement, as a foundation for cued flying changes, versus changes just forced through direction change
In fact, to keep horses honest to the leg, versus anticipating a flying change, with a change of direction, as in reining patterns, coming across center, reiners will school a horse by coming across center, changing direction, but making the horse stay on the same lead, thus counter canter


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Smilie said:


> Here is a simple way to think of flying lead changes, while answering the question as to what a series of flying lead changes are
> 
> They are not a series of direction changes, per say, but rather a series of opposite lead departures without changing gait
> 
> ...


I've read some interesting training advice using that "new departure" way of thinking about it. One method of training it is to get a horse solid in canter-to-walk and walk-to-canter transitions, then use the walk to change leads, and slowly phase out the walk portion until it can be skipped entirely and the lead change just comes on cue.


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## Courageous (Aug 31, 2017)

SteadyOn said:


> Yes, those things absolutely can and will become habitual if you keep working at them! When your heel is dropped the right amount, and you've gained the strength and flexibility to keep it there, it'll feel *right* and you'll be inclined to keep it there.
> 
> Think about it this way: what gives you more shock absorption? The ball of your foot pushing against something fixed, like the stirrup bar (which is what happens when your heels are up), or your ankle flexing down into your heel, dropped behind the stirrup with the ability to rise and drop depending on how much weight is pushed into it? A heel dropped the right amount does great things: it helps you follow and absorb some of the motion of the horse and makes you feel more stable and comfortable. It gives you a certain amount of room to bounce back if you lose your balance, too. It also engages your calf muscle and lays it against the horse's side in the most effective way for applying your leg.
> 
> ...


Oh good, because I felt really stiff, just trying to get my heels down. Thanks for the advice. It makes sense way you don't want to overdue it. Thanks for the exercise tip. I will definitely do that. I forgot how much you ach after riding a horse though. :grin:


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Courageous said:


> Oh good, because I felt really stiff, just trying to get my heels down. Thanks for the advice. It makes sense way you don't want to overdue it. Thanks for the exercise tip. I will definitely do that. I forgot how much you ach after riding a horse though. :grin:


You'll be amazed at how much your leg position will change over time. You should ask your instructor if she'd mind taking a picture for you of what it looks like now so you can see how it compares after a season of regular riding! 

The photos I'm attaching here were taken less than a year apart. While I still see issues with the "improved" photo (stirrup too short, iron not angled quite right, leg a little too forward) it's still night and day. The second photo there was taken over a year ago now, so I'd be curious to see what I've currently got happening. I know by feel that more changes have happened!

(Photo one is extra bad because it was taken in an awkward moment, and I needed to shorten my stirrups, but it does make for an extra dramatic before and after. :lol


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

SteadyOn said:


> I've read some interesting training advice using that "new departure" way of thinking about it. One method of training it is to get a horse solid in canter-to-walk and walk-to-canter transitions, then use the walk to change leads, and slowly phase out the walk portion until it can be skipped entirely and the lead change just comes on cue.


There are many ways to teach it, including that one step break to a trot, between the lad change, but I never found that worked well for me, as I then found it very hard to eliminate that very slight, almost unnoticed break
A method that worked very well for me, was to teach that flying change on the dtraight
You first put all the basics on the horse, like soft in face and poll, hip control, shoulder control, half pass, ect
This method works great,if you have a nice open field, or a road, where you can just wait for the hrose to change, with no wall coming up
You first half pass in each direction at a trot, then at a lope or canter. You half pass the horse first into the lead he is on, then into the opposite direction, just keeping that leg on, not letting him break, and he will change
You then refine it, to the point you only need to take leg off the new lead side.while applying slight leg pressure behind the cinch on opposite side , just like in a lead departure, and just moving straight ahead


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