# Saddle fit/girth question--long complicated question



## wausuaw (Apr 15, 2011)

Photos would be very useful. To add them onto a post click "go advanced" and then click on the paper click icon (attachments) then you select what picture you would like to use from your computer. 

I am personally a fan of double rigging, as with my mare I had issues with saddle movement, regardless of how tight the girth was (literally would just fall over sideways) and being uncomfortable with the girth. Double rigging helped that out a lot. 

I would post pictures except I don't have that saddle anymore. My mare grew, saddle didn't fit anymore, so we went back to the drawing board. As of now she's just got a traditional western style saddle that she has no issues with (for now). 

Have you tried a crupper to keep the saddle from sliding forward downhill? (If not, make sure you train her with it before you go out!!!) if that's what makes her uncomfortable, then it may help prevent it. Also, I would probably check fitment of saddle, make sure it doesn't need to be adjusted.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

It does sound like the way she is going downhill indicates the saddle is interfering with her shoulder. I am in no way a saddle fit expert, but I think if you put your hand on the part of the saddle that sits near her shoulder and have your hubby lift her front leg and rotate it up and down a few times, you'll be able to feel if it is interfering. The other possibility is that it just doesn't fit quite right and is slipping forward onto her shoulders when going downhill. In any case, sounds like it would be worth it to spend a few bucks on a saddle fitter to evaluate the fit. Most are very reasonable with their consultation fees, and you'll know one way or the other if you're dealing with a saddle that fits or not. If it turns out your saddle does not fit, they would be able to provide you with recommendations of a brand that would fit better.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

If you want to private message me, I will give you my e-mail address and you can e-mail the photos to me and I can post them for you. If that is easier.


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## RhondaLynn (Jan 26, 2010)

Wow Taffy, THANKS!! I will try and get photos this Saturday. It is suppose to rain so we won't be riding. I will PM you on Monday.

Rhonda


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Photos from Rhonda Lynn


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

More photos from Rhonda Lynn


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Rhonda Lynn will explain about photos when she gets off work later.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

I am no expert, but I have learned a bit about saddles over the years from a really good saddler, so preface this with that. Additionally I have never seen one of those saddles before but I just had a look on Google images at some; so I might be a bit off here (so apply what I say here with a bit of criticism).
It sounds to me, despite what the blurb from them says, that the saddle has centre fire rigging. Centre fire is a rigging position rather than a rigging set up. The way to tell is to have a line between the ends of the cantle (where it meets the seat on each side) and then to the middle of the fork (roughly, some are stood up or lean forwards so it’s a guesstimate where the middle is. Well it will all be a guesstimate since the rigging will be measured off the tree, before it had all the leather put on, not the finished saddle so measuring it like this will be a little off). Now, along that line, find the middle and that should be where centre fire rigging goes. 
The next position from there is three quarter, then seven eights, then full double rigging. All of these terms refer to where the girth rigging will go forwards of the centre by dividing the remaining distance in half each time. So ¾ is half way between centre and full, 7/8th is half the remaining distance, and full is under the middle of the fork. If that doesn’t make sense its just my silly way of describing it. Centre fire rigging typically has no flank girth rigging, and many saddles with ¾ rigging may not have it either, when you get to 7/8ths they likely will have it and full double rigged saddles need flank girth rigging.
Now the way the rigging is attached to the saddle can vary wildly from Sam Stag rigging, in-skirt rigging, flat plate rigging and any number of variations, it seems to me that is what they are talking about when they say double rigging. Not so much the position but the system its rigged to the saddle tree. 
As for where the saddle sits on the horse to where the girth will go, the saddle will go to where it should sit if it fits the horse properly, the girth will also work its way into the horse’s girth, and if the saddle is centre fire rigged the girth will slope backwards up from the horse’s girth. What that is all about is distributing the pull of the girth in relation to pulling down the tree. So centre fire rigging will pull down on the back of the saddle in a way that full double rigging cant, hence the need for a flank girth for full double rigged saddles. There are pros and cons to each style of rigging depending on what you want the saddle for.
Have a look at the photo of my old horse. He has my stock saddle on him, which has ¾ rigging. You can see that there is a bit of a slope back from the where the cinch goes under his belly to the saddle rigging. Once that saddle is in place, it doesn’t move, despite the angle of the girth. 
As for the saddle moving around on the horse, that would be more likely an indication that the tree doesn’t fit it so well rather than a function of the rigging position; my gut feeling is that the saddle may not have the right angles for the horse’s back behind and around its wither/shoulder area. If the tree fits well the rigging won’t pull it forwards. If you are going down some really step country a crupper might be an idea once you have ascertained that the saddle fits right, it is possible to move a saddle about, no matter how well it fits, if you don’t move with the horse well, or you stiffen up a bit on steep hills etc (not saying you do, just a reason why a well fitted saddle might move). 
As for the saddle interfering with the horses shoulders, if it is too far forwards it might, or if the skirts haven’t been put on the tree properly it might too. Basically if the tree, and saddle on it, are well made the shoulder will slide under the tree while the horse has the weight OFF the shoulder so there is clearance there, when the weight comes back on to that part of the tree the shoulder won’t be under the bar (unless you are riding in some really odd stiff way or something). 
Don’t know how much any of that helps, but anyway, my felling would be to get someone who knows about saddle fit to have a look at how it fits, I doubt the rigging position will be causing it to slide forwards. Actually, just one more thought. If the rigging position is slightly off on one side compared to the other, that is, if one is a little forward, or behind the rigging on the other side of the saddle, that might cause it to move about as well.


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

O yeah, and to make sure the saddle is in the right place in the first place, when you put it on, find the back of the horse’s shoulder blade and position the BAR of the saddle, not the SKIRT, slightly behind that, maybe the width of a couple of fingers. That should get the saddle where it should go.


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## RhondaLynn (Jan 26, 2010)

thank you Andrew for your input and THANKS Taffy for posting photos for me.

Hubby and I went to the barn and took photos and felt under the saddle. I think the photos will speak for themselves. I placed the saddle in the "sweet" spot with the tree (by feeling underneath) slightly behind her shoulder, that is when the girth is so far back. 

I have since written a letter to Henry Miller, he is Amish so has no phone or internet. I have included the photos posted above and pretty much wrote to him what I wrote above. Hopefully he can help me. I was very disappointed when I called the Double Creek saddles and spoke with the owner. She was very vague and told me she thought the saddle was suppose to slide/go over the shoulder. Has anyone ever heard of this???? she then tried to get me to buy one of her custom made saddles. I was not a happy camper to say the least!!!! 

I need to find a good saddle fitter, I am in North Georga, can anyone tell me who/how to find one? What can I expect from a saddle fitter?????

Please post comments on my saddle and possible solutions, I really love the saddle from MY BUTTS perspective, but it also has to be a good fit for my horse.

Rhonda


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I don't have any solutions but I sure see what you are talking about.


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## garlicbunny (Apr 30, 2009)

Rhonda, I just got on the internet and typed in Henry Miller saddles, he has a website and you can contact him via the internet. He also has a facebook so you can try contacting him this way. Good luck in your saddle adventures! I think the horse may very well be telling you the saddle is not a good fit.

Does the saddle leave any dry spots under the saddle? Is the hair nice a smooth or is it ruffled up at all? This could also mean the saddle is not a good fit. There are a lot of you tubes on saddle fit, you could look see if there are any on the henry Miller saddle, I did not check that avnue.e


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

All this new fangled rigging had me confused as well. My saddle is made to sit back further than the ones I grew up with and it took me a little while to figure it out. This photo may help if you can see it.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I found the original. My saddle has the 3/4 rigging and at first I was wanting to put it way too far forward.

http://www.circley.com/pdf/CY_3-way-and-angledreardee-directions.pdf


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

Rhonda, I agree that the way your mare goes downhill is telling you that her saddle is not feeling good. The head tossing is a big clue. Going at an angle downhill is maybe also a clue, but I also believe that really good trail horses do that anyway because they have better footing and can keep you balanced better -- it's a safer way to go down steep hills. But, it feels funny as a rider till you get used to it! Your pictures don't show the angle of the saddle bars as they come down along/behind her shoulders, so I can't say whether it looks like the saddle is too wide for her shoulders and is loose and therefore works forward as she goes downhill. A good saddle fitter could tell you the answer, could check for the best way to cinch her up, and could also tell you whether those fixed straps holding the girth ring could be removed and replaced by a saddle repairer in such a way that the girth ring was reset a bit more forward. 

Kudos to you for getting to the bottom of this!


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