# Adoption Fees



## MN Tigerstripes

I'm thinking it's the only way they can stay in business and keep rescuing horses. They still probably lose money or maybe break even on most of their horses.


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## Crimsonhorse01

It means I'm never adopting a horse. Especially when you actually dont Own the animal.


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## ShutUpJoe

I volunteered for a rescue. The horses were usually surrendered to the rescue or bought from auctions. $2000 to $3000 a horse is more than breaking even. Look at New Vocations (horseadoption.com) all of their horses are surrendered, they keep them for months before they get adopted and the highest fee on there is $700. Most of the horses they end up with need some kind of surgery to repair damage from being a track horse as well. 

You can't call yourself a rescue if you are just buying, training and then re-selling a horse. Even if you do actually have a few rescues at your location.


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## MN Tigerstripes

It probably depends on the rescue, but in some places there is a lot of overhead associated with keeping the horse. Land cost, feed, fencing, training, vets, farrier care, workers, and so on. I believe some of these rescues keep some horses for quite awhile. I'm not saying every place that charges these high prices is really on the up and up. I'm just saying that there are reasons that some places would have higher prices than others.

You would probably pay more at a facility that had a larger number of "non-adoptables" or that had more severe rescue cases or even in more highly populated areas were land prices/property taxes are much higher. These people are already donating a lot of their time to take on a job that very few people seem to want, so I don't see anything wrong with them trying to make a small profit.

Of course, if they're abusing the word rescue that's a different story. I definitely have a problem with them falsly advertising that they are a rescue in order to get "pity money."


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## JustDressageIt

I question "rescues" that are asking for many thousands for their adoption fees.


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## Alwaysbehind

MN Tigerstripes said:


> It probably depends on the rescue, but in some places there is a lot of overhead associated with keeping the horse. Land cost, feed, fencing, training, vets, farrier care, workers, and so on. I believe some of these rescues keep some horses for quite awhile. I'm not saying every place that charges these high prices is really on the up and up. I'm just saying that there are reasons that some places would have higher prices than others.
> 
> You would probably pay more at a facility that had a larger number of "non-adoptables" or that had more severe rescue cases or even in more highly populated areas were land prices/property taxes are much higher. These people are already donating a lot of their time to take on a job that very few people seem to want, so I don't see anything wrong with them trying to make a small profit.
> 
> Of course, if they're abusing the word rescue that's a different story. I definitely have a problem with them falsly advertising that they are a rescue in order to get "pity money."


I agree!

I see nothing wrong with rescues charging more than way cheap for a horse. I would assume a good rescue would have the horse current on all vet things and farrier and working on any training issues it might have so it is safe. 

Some rescues do give ownership to the adopter.


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## MN Tigerstripes

That's what I would think, but I know NOTHING about rescues. I just know how much it costs to take care of my horses. Especially when we had a "special needs" one. It got a little spendy quick.

Of course, I don't think these places are doing themselves or their horses any favors with some of their requirements. And the ones where you don't own the animal? Come on, that just seems a little ridiculous. 

I don't know why I bother to defend them though, even if I had the money no rescue would let me adopt a horse. My facilities aren't good enough, even though we've had our horses for years (3 of them from birth to death) and they are all (or were anyways for the dead ones) fat, happy, spoiled, and loved.


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## ShutUpJoe

I'm going to use that particular rescue as an example. Because if they were charging that adoption fee for every horse or even making the difference a few hundred dollars with companion horses waived then it would be different. But (and I see this a lot) this one has horses adoption fees priced from free, $550, $750 and so on. That to me is selling. They are pricing the horse according to what they believe they are worth. 

(Which is ridiculous becuase they have an arab on there that has WAY better confirmation than the first horse I posted for around $650)

Real rescues price the horses within the same price range. 

It's also ridiculous to me because this rescue is relatively close to me and there are horses of the same breed as the above going for hundreds not thousands. So they are stuck feeding those horses because they don't have an appropriate fee for them. While more horses need rescued. 

I think the person who owned the rescue I volunteered for brain washed me. This used to drive her mad, lol.


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## MN Tigerstripes

What's the name of this particular rescue?


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## ShutUpJoe

Second Wind 

Hold on let me link you


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## ShutUpJoe

HORSES AVAILABLE

The place that I volunteered has set fees. She didn't recoup anything and relied on donations. She was purely non-profit. Ridable horses were $500, un-trained horses $400, horses to young to ride were $300 and companion horses were always free. No matter what breed, size or how much she spent on it.


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## MN Tigerstripes

This is the info on the first mare: 

Miss Bee is a 1989 Thoroughbred mare, 16.1 hands, a 3rd level dressage master (including tempi's) and has been teaching kids dressage for the last 2 years at Meredith Manor International Equestrian School, sweet, sensible and sound. Will be an excellent horse for someone wanting to learn dressage or just do some fun dressage, clinics and personal lessons. No special care beyond some consideration for her age. We want to keep her from being a lesson horse for a lot of different riders and just have her with an individual rider that wants to learn and enjoy a super well trained horse but may not be ready for competition or no desire to compete. A real love bug. Many students from Meredith Manor tell us that Miss Bee taught them everything they know about dressage, that is a pretty good resume for this lovely girl. She deserves a great home where she can have some fun with one special person. She is a sweet mare that loves people. If well cared for she has a good 10 years of dressage in her and maybe another 5 of pleasure riding. Remember 20 is the new 10! Goes in a snaffle, never raced, good manners, good temperament, confident, easily trained, smart, sound barefoot, good with other horses and animals, good around kids on the ground, good with farrier and vet, loads, ties, cross ties, bathes, good alone, quiet in stall, free lunges or lunges on a line, can catch in an open field. 

Well this is the info on the second mare:

Sukhoi: 2001 registered and branded Swedish Warmblood mare, dark bay, 15.1 hands, a very well built mare in a small package, currently located in Michigan. sound for all professions, no vices, completes all ground requirements (loading, tying, etc), likes people, good manners, respects your space, good temperament, easily trained, smart, good with other animals and horses, good with the farrier and vet, loads, ties and cross ties, easy keeper, health care up to date and always been on a consistent worming program. Sensitive but well behaved, 
She will make a very nice horse. She is perfectly sound with breath-taking movement and a loving personality that is the essence of femininity and elegance. She is by Johanniter (SW) and out of a Martini daughter, Sterling (Trak). She has had extensive ground training and ground driven prior to riding. She is a very balanced horse with an exceptional trot, forward mover. She learns quickly as she learned the turn on the forehand in one 15 minute ride and promptly remembered the lesson the next ride. Sukhoi has had training in dressage and hunter/jumper, plus Clinton Anderson level 1, 2 and some 3 ground work and level 1 riding.. Best with an experienced patient rider or a rider working with an experienced patient trainer. Super horse for any profession.

Here's the link; http://www.crossedsabers.com/SECOND_WIND_ADOPTION_PROGRAM/Horses_Available_For_Adoption.htm


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## MN Tigerstripes

LOL, we're working at the same time.. 

I guess I don't have a problem with a rescue charging more for certian horses. If it allows them to rescue more horses that is. I don't really like the ones that place a huge fee on a horse, a bunch of conditions, and then you don't own the horse. In my opinion that doesn't do anything to help get these animals homes and make room for more.

Of course, I'm a bit of an idealist (w/a good bit of realist mixed in, explain that ) So in my wonderful world, people would use the extra money they get from the "better" horses to save others.


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## ShutUpJoe

If you look on the page though they are trying to get rid of them as fast as they can. I've been following them and they are turning them out but not bringing any more in...


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## MN Tigerstripes

Well then you're probably right about this particular rescue. But I don't think that every rescue that charges higher prices for their horses or different prices based on the horse's worth are bad rescues. If I had a rescue I would probably charge fair market value for each horse based on it's individual attributes. 

I have to say that for this place I was just reading their website and some of their prices seem really arbitrary.


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## ShutUpJoe

I agree on the prices. But I see a lot of that around here.


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## Crimsonhorse01

Since we are on rescues and fees. There is a rescue in MT that Spays their mares. It must really be bringing in the $


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## ShutUpJoe

! There is a "rescue" near here who advertises their mares as broodmare sound!


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## Spastic_Dove

Those horses don't really seem like "rescues" persay at least not from the descriptions you posted.. 

A rescue needs to take only the number of horses it can afford without having to post craigslist adds begging for hay and grain or charge an arm and a leg for a horse that is only sound for plodding around the pasture (speaking in general, not this rescue). I think it is fair of them to be looking to get back the adoption rescue fee of the horse, and some more of their expenses if they can. However they should not be looking to make profit, IMO. 

Considering the prices of horses right now, I would be very picky with rescuing (Especially because of Crimsonshorse's point that you never really have true ownership of the horse, no papers generally, etc). If I am going to spend $2500 on a horse, I'll probably just buy it. 

Personally, I would rescue a horse if I was looking for something to pamper and ride for fun and wouldn't spend more than a grand on one. I want the rescue to stay open if it is a legit rescue, but it's usually not the best financial decision.

...and don't even get me started on the PMU "rescues"


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## bubblegum

the rescue near me does not charge anything for adoption of the horses or donkeys. it is up to the person to donate feed, hay, money, your time, your expertise, your land for grazing. we do charity rides and drives and walks for the charity to raise money.


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## nrhareiner

Most of the rescues in my area are about $200-$1000 depending on the horse. I personally will not get a horse from a rescue however I am glade that they are there and some do not mind doing so.

I think charging those prices in this economy especially for the horses posted is way too much.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Quite frankly, unless you're actually active in bringing down negligent owners and providing a safehouse for severely abused animals, you're not rescueing a dang thing.

Going to feedlots or auctions and picking up cheap horses and then selling them for thirteen times you paid has a name - it's called FLIPPING. My 2 year old was a scruffy mess when I bought her, underweight, filthy and hooves longer then Aunt May's 80 year old breasts. I paid $800 for her, oh oh oh, I RESCUED her! Now payz me three thousand of dollarz plz.

It's great people are making sure these rideable animals aren't slipping under the cracks, but it infuriates me that they tug on people's heart strings by calling themselves a rescue when there are actual horses and charities out there that could use the money to help sick and injured animals confiscated from the local jerk off. Rescuing a three legged behemoth with the brains of a pickle off a feedlot isn't helping anyone.

But that's my two cents. I can just say a penny of my money will never go to these so called "rescues". My money goes to NON-profit organization who are out for solely the welfare of the animal.


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## ponyboy

JustDressageIt said:


> I question "rescues" that are asking for many thousands for their adoption fees.


Me too. IMO they aren't rescues at all, they are "horse flipping" businesses (you know like house flipping).


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## Speed Racer

Dear God, STAY AWAY FROM CROSSED SABERS!!!! 

She's a shyster, scam artist, and just wants the money so she can pay her private bills with it!

Celeita Cramer is well known among real rescues and knowledgeable horse people, and she's shunned by the equestrian community.

Unless things have changed she is NOT registered as a 501(c)3, although she tells everyone she is.

NONE of those horses on her website are even close to being as advertised.

You don't have to take my word for it, just Google her name and read what comes up about her.

She's a piece of ****e, and there are people working behind the scenes to get her shut down forever.

Stay far, far away from Second Wind and Crossed Sabers.

If you really want to help rescued horses, there are plenty of reputable rescues and adoption programs out there.


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## MN Tigerstripes

That really sucks that people are like that. Well, I'm not afraid to say I was wrong... Especially in this case apparently.

I guess I see what the rest of you are saying too about horse flipping and whatnot. Hrm.


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## Speed Racer

MN, there's nothing wrong with brokering horses, as long as people are honest about what they're doing.

To say it's under the auspices of 'rescuing' though, is at the least morally reprehensible.


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## kevinshorses

If anyone wants to "rescue" one of my horses for $3000 I will let you take your pick. If you want to give me a few weeks I might be able to abuse and neglect them before you come to pick them up. Just bring cash and a horse trailer. I don't own a horse that looks as bad as the first horse. If she's not lame on both ends and sore in the middle I'll eat my hat. You're not getting much there for $2500.


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## sillybunny11486

"Rescuing a three legged behemoth with the brains of a pickle off a feedlot isn't helping anyone." 

Think about the horse? yeah your not helping any person, but your saving a horse. You can put it down humanely (vs slaughter) or you can try to rehab it if you think you might find a suitable owner. Its like going to the SPCA to get a pet. You go to save the animal from being killed. They will get put down if someone doesnt get them in time. 

The rescue near me only takes sound horses now (Last Chance Ranch) so idk how they can validate being a rescue. If its a good place Im willing to pay a little more for the animal, knowing the money goes to help more. You can usually get some kind of tax deduction for a 501(c)3 so they sometimes charge a little more. Its bad when rescues sell horses for alot more then auctions, because that means uneducated people are just going to get a cheep horse from the auction house instead of supporting their rescue, and they'll just get stuck with a bunch of horses. They do need to make something, to keep getting more animals, otherwise they wouldnt last long. The difference between a nonprofit and a business is simply they dont distribute income, and their MAIN motive isnt profit, its improvement of something.


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## ShutUpJoe

I agree. If you are flipping a horse call it that. Don't advertise yourself as a "rescue".


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## sillybunny11486

I thought about rescuing some horses and retraining them for a sutiable home. 

It would cost me around
$500 to get an auctions horse (plus gas, its like 100 miles to the auction)
$400 a month for a suitable facility
plus all the time its sitting, while I look for buyers. 

I would need to sell the horse for atleast $900-1300 (assuming 1-2 months training.) So a a few thousand would get me about break even. I dont think a few thousand is unreasonable, if costs are higher in the area.


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## Speed Racer

Sillybunny, the cost to sell the animal based on your figures and what they represent is fine.

However, very few rescues put time, money and effort into getting horses trained. They just don't have the disposable funds.

I got my newest horse for free. He's with my trainer right now because he needs to unlearn how to be a racehorse, and learn how to be a foxhunter. He'll be with my trainer for 3 to 6 months, and she's not cheap.

But he's young, sound, safe, and sane, which most rescues can't guarantee. You pays yer money, and you takes yer chances.

Besides, with plenty of horses like the one I just got out there for free, why would ANYONE pay a 'rescue' $2,500 for a broken down nag?

If people want to broker horses, that's their business. They just shouldn't call themselves rescues if they do, because they're not.

Plus, and this is a MAJOR pet peeve of mine; if you BUY a horse at auction IT'S NOT A RESCUE, IT'S A PURCHASE!

You may be upgrading the animal, but you sure as heck didn't 'rescue' it. 

I think rescue is the most overused, misunderstood word in the horse community.


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## MN Tigerstripes

What would you consider a true rescue?


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## sillybunny11486

Rescue per wikipedia, is to save a life or prevent injury...


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## sillybunny11486

removing a horse for a potentially dangerous situation would then be considered a rescue, as would buying from a kill pen.


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## MN Tigerstripes

But buying from an auction? Or from the racetrack? Heck by that definition somebody could come "rescue" my horses. Or any horse for that matter seeing as how horses are probably the most injury prone animal ever... LOL, rescuing them from themselves!


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## paintsrule

For the whole rescueing from an auction/racetrack thing IMO i think it depends on where the horse was going home to if it didnt get sold that day. If it was a bad place its a rescue, if they are going home to a place that may not still love them but will feed them, its not a rescue, its a purchase.


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## Speed Racer

sillybunny11486 said:


> removing a horse for a potentially dangerous situation would then be considered a rescue, as would buying from a kill pen.


No, that is incorrect. 

_Potentially_ dangerous doesn't mean the situation will be, just that by your perception it _might_ be. 

Buying from a kill pen is still buying. 

Rescue is actual _rescuing_. Like pulling an animal from a dumpster, or finding them in the woods and bringing them home so they won't starve, or taking them on from an owner who just can't afford them anymore.

You can make yourselves feel better by telling yourselves you 'rescued' an animal, but if you paid money for it you _bought_ it. Which makes it a financial transaction. Which means you've rewarded the person you paid money to, which encourages them to sell more of the same.

Charlatans and horse traders bank on people wanting to feel superior by saying they 'rescued' something, which is how they manage to rook people into paying for animals that no one in their right minds would take on.

So it's a vicious cycle. People who crow about rescuing when they actually bought the animal, are really only fueling the sales and lining the pockets of those who are willing to let them make fools of themselves.

I just hate to see people being taken advantage of, even when they're too blind to realize it.


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## sillybunny11486

bringing them home so they won't starve, or taking them on from an owner who just can't afford them anymore.... that too me sounds like horses who end up in the kill pen.

Most horses sold there are sold for maybe $10-100. do you think people make money off of that price?? It would cost me that much to get a horse there, and pay the auction fee. I wouldnt make a dime. Economicly no one is going to put a horse in a kill pen, if they can make money for it elsewere.


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## kevinshorses

I have a couple of horses that I would let someone rescue. They may somehow hurt themselves in the future. The adoption fee is $4000 plus shipping and handling. All my horses have been abused (too much feed and too little exercise) and need someone to wuv them.


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## MN Tigerstripes

LOL, too true...


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## AlmostThere

I think if you are going to call yourself a rescue, then you shouldn't take payments on a horse. If a rescue got some of it's horses because the previous owners could not afford to feed them any more, then it would be irresponsible to rehome them to someone without enough disposable income to cover their rehoming fee (whether or not the fee is ridiculously high).

The new owner will also need to have enough money for food, vet, farrier, etc., so if they cannot scrape together the rehoming fee they are too broke to get the horse.


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## Appy Luvr

I think it's completely rediculous what "rescues" like that charge. If they really want homes for their horses so they can rescue more then why not put a reasonable price on them that covers their costs so people can actually afford them?? Why would I pay those prices for a "rescue" when I can go to the sale and buy as many NICE PAPERED colts as I want for $25-$100 each??
IMO people like that are out to make money by playing on peoples feelings.


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## Honeysuga

kevinshorses said:


> If anyone wants to "rescue" one of my horses for $3000 I will let you take your pick. If you want to give me a few weeks I might be able to abuse and neglect them before you come to pick them up. Just bring cash and a horse trailer. I don't own a horse that looks as bad as the first horse. If she's not lame on both ends and sore in the middle I'll eat my hat. You're not getting much there for $2500.


You crack me up! I would actually like to see you eat your hat though:twisted:, seriously, hehe.


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## lacyloo

Call me a cold hearted b**** but if the REAL rescues would euthanize the older,lame,dangerous horses, that would make more room for the younger more adoptable horses.

Why don't they ask for feed/hay in exchange for the horse? I know you need money for vet bills and utility's but if your running a horse rescue,you should be able to pay for that without asking for donations.Starting a horse rescue for profit doesn't make sense to me...

I have a problem with people calling themselves "rescues" in reality they are just horse brokers/hoarders and iv personally been to two of these "rescues" and the horses would have been better off with a bullet in their head.Thin,feet overgrown,in desperate need of a dental,breeding like rabbits.And whats their excuse? "We just rescued these or we need money". 

My aunts couzin decided she wanted to rescue acouple of horses to put on her 6 acres..Okay,we loaded up with trailer and arrived at this place deep in woods.When we got out of the truck it literally smelt like death.Emaciated mares with foals by their sides,stallions in the same paddock as the filly's,Horses eating the sideing off of the barn,foals with cuts on them from bob wire,skinny dogs eating horse poop to survive...You get the idea? These people were also running a PUPPY MILL ! I'm not even going to go into some of the things we saw :shock:. This elderly woman had lost her husband to cancer and was living off of his (whatever you call it) but wasn't unable to walk,so she used a wheel chair. Her mentally ill daughter was caring for all of them animals.We ended up leaving with 3 emaciated horses,the lady wanted 1000$ for all of them but we handed her 300 $ and left. We called the sheriff and he said they would go check it out.We never heard back from them but we drove by the ladies house and everything was GONE. She claimed to be a "rescue" yet the horses were living in HELL.

-Darnit she tooked the pics off of her myspace but ill see if she will put them back up for me.-


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## KrystaLake

*Okay, I disagree and agree with some of this. I am working on becoming a rescue, but at this time can only take on one horse at a time as I am in the process of getting my 501, and that's all I can afford out of pocket at the moment. 

Buying horses from auctions is not flipping if your not making money. My most recent horse cost me $125 and I was bidding against the meat man, is that not a rescue? She is sane and sound, just very underweight, shy and wormy, feet had not been done in a long time if ever and her growth was stunted. I saved a perfectly nice horse from certain death, is that not a rescue? I kept her for a year, got her healthy, vetted her and trained her, took her on trail rides and such. I got $500 for her, as that's all I asked. I lost money and knew I would. $125 for her, $20 to get her home, $150 vet bill (at least), 6 farrier visits at $30 each, and its about $40 a month to feed her. (also wormer, grain, supplements and such) So I spent at least $955 on her. 

And I tell you what she was one of the best darn horses I have ever known, very willing with a slight hint of sassy..

So I personally feel going to auctions an saving horses is considered rescuing, it just depends on the person doing it and their intentions. 

As for you not owning the horse. In my contract you own the horse, but you give me the ride to check on said horse, and take horse if it is abused or neglect. You are the adoptive owner, you are just giving rights to the rescue to save the horse if need be. It also ensures that if the horse is sold they will know, and to help ensure the horse isnt bred. If you are truly going to take care of the horse for the rest of its life you have nothing to worry about. (Granted the rescue is legit and the owners arent crazy) 

I do agree that over $1000 for an adoption fee is way to high. I do understand that Rescues need funding, but a legit rescue will tell you that they do not make money from adoption fees, they get most of their money from grants, foundations, fundraisers and donations. 

Anyways just some of my thoughts.
*


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## kevinshorses

Buying a horse and selling it for less than you have got into it isn't rescueing it's idiotic. The more money you sell a horse for the more likely it will have a good home. I have also thought about starting a rescue and buying horses from the auction and turning them after some time. The horse market is just now getting to be such that I can possibly make some money doing it. 

I also agree with a previous poster that said if the rescues would euthanize the worst horses they would have more resources to take in the healthy ones. Some horses just need to be put down and have thier suffering ended.


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## KrystaLake

kevinshorses said:


> Buying a horse and selling it for less than you have got into it isn't rescueing it's idiotic. The more money you sell a horse for the more likely it will have a good home. I have also thought about starting a rescue and buying horses from the auction and turning them after some time. The horse market is just now getting to be such that I can possibly make some money doing it.
> 
> I also agree with a previous poster that said if the rescues would euthanize the worst horses they would have more resources to take in the healthy ones. Some horses just need to be put down and have thier suffering ended.


*Well I'm not in it for the money. I dont think its idiotic either. If I want to spend my money saving horses, my choice. Pricing her higher would only make her harder to find a home for. (Considering around here you can get a reg. horse for free.)

Higher price doesn't mean it will more likely have a better home, there are plenty of people that spend 30k plus on a horse and than abuse it. Happens quite a bit. *


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## nrhareiner

KrystaLake;550740[COLOR=Magenta said:


> *
> As for you not owning the horse. In my contract you own the horse, but you give me the ride to check on said horse, and take horse if it is abused or neglect. You are the adoptive owner, you are just giving rights to the rescue to save the horse if need be. It also ensures that if the horse is sold they will know, and to help ensure the horse isnt bred. If you are truly going to take care of the horse for the rest of its life you have nothing to worry about. (Granted the rescue is legit and the owners arent crazy)
> *[/COLOR]



For me if I buy a horse pay anything for it or are given the horse the min. it sets foot on my property it is MINE to do with what I please. This is why I will not get a horse from a rescue. I put money into a horse and decide to sell it I will do it and price if for what every I want. I will sell it to who ever I want. This is the problem I personally have with rescues. They wish to continue to control what happens to that horse. If that is what you really want do 1 of 2 things. Put the horse down or keep it. Once it is out of your hands it is just that out of your hands.


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## maura

Oh! kevinshorses! Great post. 

I used to have a barn full of sweet, tender-hearted ladies-who-lunched; and the quickest way to sell them *anything* (If it had three hooves and a wheel, and was a carnivore, if it had a sad enough story, they'd buy it) was to tell them it had been abused or neglected. Suckers for the sad story, every one. And wanted to believe they were "helping" the animal, rather than choosing an athletic partner or a working companion. 

I ran in to this attitude when I adopted my current dog. Wonderful three year old dog, *impeccably* kept and cared for; whose wonderful family couldn't keep her and meet her needs. Everytime I took her somewhere during her socialization/training, people would say with a gleam in their eye "Oh! Was she *rescued*?" clearly hoping to hear a prurient story of abuse and neglect. They were visibly disappointed when I answered "No, her previous owners were wonderful, responsible owners who just couldn't keep her."

I don't understand what it is in people's psyche that's drawn to idea of "rescue", but I don't find it rational, attractive or functional.


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## kevinshorses

I'm going to try that next time I sell a horse.


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## Kentucky

kevinshorses said:


> If anyone wants to "rescue" one of my horses for $3000 I will let you take your pick. If you want to give me a few weeks I might be able to abuse and neglect them before you come to pick them up. Just bring cash and a horse trailer. I don't own a horse that looks as bad as the first horse. If she's not lame on both ends and sore in the middle I'll eat my hat. You're not getting much there for $2500.


Kevin, I think your too much of a horseman to do that to your own or anyother horse.


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## nrhareiner

maura said:


> I ran in to this attitude when I adopted my current dog. Wonderful three year old dog, *impeccably* kept and cared for; whose wonderful family couldn't keep her and meet her needs. Everytime I took her somewhere during her socialization/training, people would say with a gleam in their eye "Oh! Was she *rescued*?" clearly hoping to hear a prurient story of abuse and neglect. They were visibly disappointed when I answered "No, her previous owners were wonderful, responsible owners who just couldn't keep her."
> 
> I don't understand what it is in people's psyche that's drawn to idea of "rescue", but I don't find it rational, attractive or functional.


You know what I find even worse??? 
A few months ago I decided I wanted a small dog. As all my dogs are large even the Corgi thinks she is a big dog and they really are just have short legs. Anyway. I looked into a few breeders but since I did not want to show this dog I decided a pup from a rescue would be perfect. Well looked on Petfinder found a couple who sounded nice and where close. So I called about them. Anyway. They asked their questions and I answered. When they found out I had 2 intact dogs. Now keep in mind that is was very clearly explained to them that these where pure bred show dogs and that the addobed dog would be fixed. Not just one but several of the rescues would not even let me go any further in the process to addoped a dog in need of a home.

To me this is just one of many things wrong with these type of people. They think their way in the only way.


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## Delfina

I have a BullMastiff (he's pet quality and neutered) we wanted another and since we weren't thrilled with his breeder, we decided to get a rescue. Nope, ALL the rescues refused because I have children under 10. They all kept telling me that I was an idiot for wanting a big dog around children and I had no clue what I would be getting into.

Uh.... I HAVE a BullMastiff, I am perfectly aware of how large he is and no it's not ever been an issue since he wasn't allowed out of my sight until he was housebroken and trained in proper behavior. Even offered to let the rescues meet him and see that he is a giant, dopey, gentleman who my 6yr old walks on a leash and they turned me down.


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## kevinshorses

Kentucky said:


> Kevin, I think your too much of a horseman to do that to your own or anyother horse.


I have a pretty good imagination so I could make up a beliveable story.


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## maura

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread and go off on dog rescues. I have a lot of issues with dog rescues too, but that should probably be a different thread. 

However, back to the original subject of adoption fees at horse rescues. 

Rescues are started by tender hearted people with a lot of passion about abused and neglected animals. What rescues need is someone who can be cold blooded and dispassionate about making decisions about which horses are adoptable and which are not, and can be realistic about the process. Horseman rather than pet owners. 

The first horse pictured in this thread is most emphatically not a rescue; she's a resale. Period. 

Rescues are in a world of hurt right now. There are way more unwanted horses that there are homes. As the economy continues to struggle, and with the exceptionally hard winter we've had in some parts of the country; it's going to get worse. But here's an example of what's fundamentally flawed about the rescue concept. 

Two years ago my fencing was finished and I was looking for a new horse. I needed something suitable for trail and light pleasure riding, and cheap. A dear friend and riding buddy volunteers at a rescue and she took me to see a candidate at the rescue barn. 18 year old grade palomino gelding, abandoned at a barn, BO kept it til she could no longer afford it and turned in over to the rescue. No other history on the horse. Smaller than I wanted. Gaining weight but no condition to speak of, signifigant sway back. Likely a hard keeper. Sweet on the ground. Lunged the horse and it was sound and *quite* peppy. Put my tack on it and tried to get on it. Serious pain/fear response as soon as I moved to put a foot in the stirrup. Worked with it a half hour to get to the point I could belly over it and quit. Again, horse with no history, and I was trying it in an open field. Rescue friend said they would get their (the rescue's) trainer to work with the horse and I could come back and see it. 

Now look in my profile and barn -

My current horses are the great big chestnut QH, currently 8, and the little bay QH child's/husband/guest horse, 10. Both sound, easy keepers, well-broken. 
Both were *free*, no strings attached. Got the one through an old horsey professional aquaintence, the other through a chance encounter at my office job. 

So what do you think the answer was when the rescue called back and said nobody had ridden the 18yo grade palomino yet, but was I still interested in putting in an adoption application, starting the home study process, paying the $350 fee, and eventually taking him home with the adoption contract in place?

My friend told me later that the palomino horse was probably the most promising/potentially adoptable one currently at the rescue, because they were pretty sure he would be rideable with work. 

End rant.


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## Matty

JustDressageIt said:


> I question "rescues" that are asking for many thousands for their adoption fees.



Rescues need that money to maintain their barns, trailers, trucks, plus the vet bills, feed etc. 

The rescue i work for 100% not profit every penny we get from an adoption goes into rescuing more horses. We buy many from the auctions and save them from the slaughter house so wee need thousands of dollars to save as many horses as we can.


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## Matty

Many of you talk down rescues but what are you all doing to save horses? not a dang thing. we take our money, our time, our sweat and tears to try to save horses and you bad mouth us. I'm not saying every rescue is legit but to bad mouth them is just wrong. Buying them at auction to save them from the slaughter house to me is rescuing them. Don't even start with the economy cause its not as bad as the newspapers say it is. Rescues need to set reasonable adoption fees so they don't loose money and use any extra to put back into the barn feed etc. If you seen the horses the organization i work with have rescued them maybe you would change your mind. In fact I'll add a link to our website. You all talk down on rescues but yet you **** and moan when you see an abused horse. I don't understand it. Ya'll have offended me so much with your ignorance, this will probably be my last post unless someone starts an argument with me.

Back in the Saddle Horse Adoption, INC - A Network for Those That Wish to Help Horses!


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## kevinshorses

I personally support horse slaughter. I wish more horses would go to slaughter if they were not of high quality or capable of being ridden.


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## kevinshorses

Your rescue is no different than the others out there that spread misinformation and lies. There are some comments about wild mustangs that are totally fabricated. At any rate I would not adopt from a rescue because I don't need the kind of people that want to check on a horse they no longer own intruding on my life. I can buy a horse from an auction just as easy as a rescue and then I own the horse. I also don't have to worry about some half-assed volunteer "trainer" screwing up the horse.


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## jimmy

well kevin ,no more than yourself ,i can think of some fancy tales to sell a horse,and god save any of the [so ]called rescuers if i meet up with them, they,l get a herd that not even john wayne could have drove


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## Matty

kevinshorses said:


> Your rescue is no different than the others out there that spread misinformation and lies. There are some comments about wild mustangs that are totally fabricated. At any rate I would not adopt from a rescue because I don't need the kind of people that want to check on a horse they no longer own intruding on my life. I can buy a horse from an auction just as easy as a rescue and then I own the horse. I also don't have to worry about some half-assed volunteer "trainer" screwing up the horse.



Please inform me of the misinformation and lies my rescue is spreading.

All the volunteers feed and clean the stables, so they are not half-*** and they can't screw anything up.

When you adopt a horse from the rescue i work at then you DO own the horse. we don't come check up on it as you say others do. Maybe its different out west.


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## jimmy

Speed Racer said:


> Dear God, STAY AWAY FROM CROSSED SABERS!!!!
> 
> She's a shyster, scam artist, and just wants the money so she can pay her private bills with it!
> 
> Celeita Cramer is well known among real rescues and knowledgeable horse people, and she's shunned by the equestrian community.
> 
> Unless things have changed she is NOT registered as a 501(c)3, although she tells everyone she is.
> 
> NONE of those horses on her website are even close to being as advertised.
> 
> You don't have to take my word for it, just Google her name and read what comes up about her.
> 
> She's a piece of ****e, and there are people working behind the scenes to get her shut down forever.
> 
> Stay far, far away from Second Wind and Crossed Sabers.
> 
> If you really want to help rescued horses, there are plenty of reputable rescues and adoption programs out there.


just googled her your right about being ****e how does she keep gettin away with it


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## kevinshorses

To listen to these horses screaming on this video makes me cry to listen to it. And just seeing the BLM put these horses into crowded pens is just as bad as what the slaughter houses are doing to the horses that someone used to care about and probably still does care about. I am glad I adopted 2 mustangs one which is with my trainer and one at home with me spending her days right now as a pasture friend until I get her training done then she will be used for the kids and trail rides.

They want to make money off renting out the land and stripping it of anything they can get from the land coal, oil anything they can find. The sickening part is the blm guys out there has the power to send them to slaughter to be meals over seas is disgusting just so they can make money from how much they pay per lb of horse meat. If you are on facebook and joined Cloud the wild mustang group there are more sickening things you will learn. Like foals dying of heart attacks due to the helicoopters and their hooves getting worn down to the bone. In ever video they post the mustangs are not starving at all and are all fat and muscle 100%

The above is taken from the comments section of the rescue website. While it is not necessarily the owners of the rescue they have allowed the comments to stay up so it can be assumed that they agree.


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## maura

Matty, 

I am not anti-rescue. Quite the contrary. And I know nothing about your particular rescue, so I can't make an informed comment. My comments about rescues in general stand: they need a little less passionate good intention, and a little more business management. I'm certainly not bashing volunteers. But both the rescue org and the volunteer are attempting to shovel sand against the tide. 

In terms of a rescue local to me, that my dear friend volunteers a lot of time for - if all their time and resources are taken up with horses they acknowledge are not likely to be adopted, that means adoptable horses are slipping through the cracks. That means, in order to save more horses, someone needs to do better evaluation and triage before bringing the horse on board as a rescue project and potential adoptee. 

The other point of my post was that if you price rescue's "adoption" fees over what the market will bear for a similiar horse without the sad story, which is absolutley the case in my area right now, you will only adopt horses to people who want the emotional satisfaction of a "rescue" and don't know or don't care what the true market value is. That's too small a pool of potential buyers to make a dent in the unwanted horse population. Frequently, though not always, these are the individuals least qualified to rehabilitate and train a horse because their projection of human emotion onto the horses or their emotional expectations of the horse gets in the way.

In the case of the OP, anybody every ask how a schoolmaster and ex-Meredith Manor school horse ended up at this rescue? Did the rescue buy the horse and is attemping to resell it and use the profit for to fund it's efforts? I understand why that would be appealing, but it seriously muddles the organization's message.


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## RadHenry09

On the flip side of horses that are slaughter bound saying that they are at auction for a reason. There are good quality , sane , rideable , reg horses that do end up at auctions/kill pens. A friend of mine found a very nice reg. young mare who she took in and put about 30 days training on her then sold her to a man that was looking for a nice horse. She was a very sweet mare. I wouldn't say she was in the rescue business but she did find a good home for a horse that may of not had such a good fate otherwise.


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## Matty

kevinshorses said:


> To listen to these horses screaming on this video makes me cry to listen to it. And just seeing the BLM put these horses into crowded pens is just as bad as what the slaughter houses are doing to the horses that someone used to care about and probably still does care about. I am glad I adopted 2 mustangs one which is with my trainer and one at home with me spending her days right now as a pasture friend until I get her training done then she will be used for the kids and trail rides.
> 
> They want to make money off renting out the land and stripping it of anything they can get from the land coal, oil anything they can find. The sickening part is the blm guys out there has the power to send them to slaughter to be meals over seas is disgusting just so they can make money from how much they pay per lb of horse meat. If you are on facebook and joined Cloud the wild mustang group there are more sickening things you will learn. Like foals dying of heart attacks due to the helicoopters and their hooves getting worn down to the bone. In ever video they post the mustangs are not starving at all and are all fat and muscle 100%
> 
> The above is taken from the comments section of the rescue website. While it is not necessarily the owners of the rescue they have allowed the comments to stay up so it can be assumed that they agree.



perhaps the owners don't agree with this but yet respect their opinions so they keep it on the site, I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but i know the owners and the helpers, and we all do it to save horses not to make profit.


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## White Foot

I work at a legit rescue that adopts out thoroughbreds. We make alot of our money from adoption fees. It's really hard to get any type of funding from the government because of the economy now, so we're forced to rely mostly on the public and donations. 

You also have to keep in mind, some places offer better options, like training. I don't know about anyone here but I think getting a horse started under saddle, retrained, vet bills, laborers, and medicines is very expensive. There is alot that goes into it.


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## White Foot

RadHenry09 said:


> On the flip side of horses that are slaughter bound saying that they are at auction for a reason. There are good quality , sane , rideable , reg horses that do end up at auctions/kill pens.


We always go to the kill pens and buy the horses that are in good shape, that could be trained and make someone a good horse. I think out of the 100's we've rescued only about two had to be put down, and that was only because of chronic disease.


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## White Foot

Matty said:


> perhaps the owners don't agree with this but yet respect their opinions so they keep it on the site, I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but i know the owners and the helpers, and we all do it to save horses not to make profit.



Haha, I agree. No matter how much you offer your "rescue" for it could be $5,000, you will never be rich. Because all of that money goes right back into the barn and horses.


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## jimmy

but when your bidding at an auction ,it won,t be just the knackerman your bidding against,how do you know other people bidding won,t give them a good home? my idea of a rescue is one that is actually been abused/neglected in pain and or distress and has been taken off, or given up by the owners,if your buying and selling your a dealer plain and simple


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