# The English Language



## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

jaydee said:


> In the part of the UK where I grew up the local dialect/slang word for 'you' is 'yo' and 'are' is replaced by 'am'. 'are you all...' would be 'am yo all....' and then the 'a' gets no emphasis so it sound more like 'y'oll'!!
> 
> 
> Re. the French influence - at one time in the past there was serious discussion about the British abandoning that and using the US spellings instead but it seemed to fizzle out.
> Interestingly the US uses the French pronunciation for dressage and manège and also pronounces things like Mazda and Hyundai (cars) differently and Persil (clothes washing liquid). In the UK we also use the 'h' in herbs but in the US they're called 'erbs' with a silent 'h'


Nissan is another one. Here it is "Knee s-on", and in the UK it seems to be "nis'an".

On the other hand we deserve to be made fun of for pronouncing "Jaguar" (Jag u ar) as "Jag war". 

However, you have this kind of thing


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

jgnmoose said:


> You (1)
> 
> Y'all (2-5)
> 
> ...


Oh geeze... All y'all?! Blech. 

Well, I'm not a Yankee, but all I know is pulled pork goes in a crockpot and a brisket in the oven. Lol. Right? 

And who ever said ain't... Hate that one too. I strongly associate certain stereotypes with those words.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Several years ago a friend brought his two kids down from Chicago to experience farm life. I couldn't understand half what they said and Illinois is our next door neighbor. LOL


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Tomorrow arvo Shazza and me are garn to the bottleo to grab some grog. Make sure Daveo doesn't come over and nick all the avos, we need them for the barbie.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Foxhunter said:


> A common saying in the West Country is 'where be it too?'
> 
> Cockney rhyming sland, original come about with villains using it to perplex the police in their dodgy deals. Aussies have a similar slang.
> 
> ...


Yes, now the Cockney accent has been the delight of linguists for centuries! A fascinating example of a language that does not respect the rule of economy, which is what happens when words and expressions are shortened to save time. I can understand why people use those (ain't, etc.). But Cockney actually makes the language so convoluted that if you are not a speaker, you have no sweet clue what people are saying to each other! I had a couple of Cockney guys talk to me on a bus in London once, and I had no idea what they were saying. That is until they got very crude and then I figured I'd better end the conversation (which was a one-way conversation anyway). I travel alone a lot, so maybe they weren't being crude, but I felt it best not to find out. I later made friends who initiated me to the language somewhat, but I'd have to spend years there to really understand it I think! 

I like how people in the southern US talk. It has great charm and melody. I love accents in general. Oh, that Scottish accent - that one is so sexy!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

My family is from OK by way of LA & TX. The first time I took my hubby to a family reunion the LA (Cajun) contingent was there in large numbers. The food was great, who doesn't love fried and spicy food? Everyone was very friendly and made him welcome. It's so easy to forget that you grew up speaking more than one language, and at the end of the day my husband said, "That's the first time I've ever sat with a bunch of native Americans (yes we're Native too but he meant born & bred in the USA) and not understood the language.". When I thought back on it, I realized it must have been utterly unintelligible to him. First there were the accents, OK, SE OK, Cajun LA, TX and then the French Creole that we all learned in our homes as kids on top of it, and he must have thought he needed a passport. When I get excited about something I still forget the English/American terms sometimes. And "That ol' dog don't hunt." is generally used for when you're calling someone a liar or saying the story just doesn't add up. We have lots of expressions that are pretty colorful, a lot of them not terribly PC anymore.


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## mkmurphy81 (May 8, 2015)

Yeah, LA has quite a few accents. I live in northern Louisiana, and I'm originally from Arkansas. I have a typical southern accent. My in-laws are from the New Orleans area. They've lived in north/central LA for several years, so I can understand them just fine. A few years ago, we traveled down to south LA with them, and I didn't need road signs to know where we were. I could tell how far south we had traveled by my FIL's accent. By the time we arrived, he was speaking full Cajun.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

ApuetsoT said:


> I hate Y'all. _Hate_.
> 
> Every time I hear it I cringe.
> 
> ...


 
LOL. You'd have to curl up into a ball and shudder if you were to find yourself in my home place. 

What I hate is when folks, trying to sound Southern, use y'all in the singular.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Brits: A "Horse float". With big balloons, I suppose. "Bonnet" Who'd have thought to look for a motor under their hat? "Windscreen" Screens in the US let the breeze come thru.
My fellow citizens drive me nuts with double negatives: "Ain't got no . . ." And finishing a sentence with a preposition: "Where are we going to?"

Oh, and I have a mule; would going out with George be "Muleback riding"? I've heard people say "I'm taking my horse for a ride." Sorry, but isn't he taking you for a ride? That is unless you put him in a "horse float".

On a related topic, I was gonna post this, but there is way too much of it, so here is a link. Some of you may find it interesting:

https://brians.wsu.edu/common-errors/
***********
"What is an error in English?

The concept of language errors is a fuzzy one. I'll leave to linguists
the technical definitions. Here we're concerned only with deviations
from the standard use of English as judged by sophisticated users such
as professional writers, editors, teachers, and literate executives and
personnel officers. The aim of this site is to help you avoid low
grades, lost employment opportunities, lost business, and titters of
amusement at the way you write or speak.

But isn't one person's mistake another's standard usage?

Often enough, but if your standard usage causes other people to consider
you stupid or ignorant, you may want to consider changing it. You have
the right to express yourself in any manner you please, but if you wish
to communicate effectively you should use nonstandard English only when
you intend to, rather than fall into it because you don't know any
better."
*********

Steve


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

I grew up in Southwestern Virginia. We have our own regional accent that linguists call the Virginia lazy lip. We barely move our lips when we speak. My dear Goodewyfe, who speaks 2 different Filipino dialects, and 2 foreign languages, had no hope of understanding most of what my family said when she first met them. She told me she just did a lot of smiling and nodding. 

When I got to military basic training, I was able to understand other folks, probably from exposure to television. It didn't seem to affect our own speech too much. But we youngsters knew there was another world out there where folks talked funny. 

I recall waiting for the school bus outside the general store across the highway from our house. That highway was a north / south route for folks who did not want to use the new interstate highway. One morning, a couple of folks stopped, got some gas and groceries, and drove away. All of us little hillbilly kids stood there gaping at one another. Finally someone said out loud what all of us were thinking. 

"They talked just like the people on TV!"


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## Sandycat (Apr 7, 2017)

Mewlie said:


> As I always used grey/gray interchangeably, I had a frustrated teacher explain to me that 'grEy' was used in England and 'grAy' was used in America. That stuck in my head but I still think 'grey' looks more...distinguished. [emoji38]


I agree completely! I'm from the US, but I always use grey. It just looks nicer. 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

blue eyed pony said:


> Tomorrow arvo Shazza and me are garn to the bottleo to grab some grog. Make sure Daveo doesn't come over and nick all the avos, we need them for the barbie.


I'm kiwi I should get this, right?

'Tomorrow afternoon Shane (Shaun, Shannon) and me are going to the bottle store (Store/shop that sells alcohol) to grab some beer. Make sure Dave doesn't come over and take (pinch, steal) all the avocados, we need them for the barbeque'


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

Here is some cockney slang. My first hubby was true cockney so forgive my facination

50p - Edges (comes from the shape of the coin, i.e the edges)
£5 is a fiver - Lady Godiva is the rhyme
£1 is a nicker - lost and found
£10 is a tenner - cock 'n hen, or cockle
£20 is a Score - apple core
£25 is a Pony - maccaroni
£100 is a Ton
£500 is a Monkey
£1000 is a Grand (this one is common in New Zealand)

















carpet - 3 carpet-bag = drag
the origins of this seem to come from criminals and prison slang. 
drag was the name given to robbing carts or wagons “of trunks, bale-goods, or any other property” (probably because they were heavy and had to be dragged about). "done for a drag" meant that a thief had been convicted of such a crime, for which the penalty was three months in jail.

Bet - jumbo jet
Cash - bangers and mash
kite - cheque/check
Breath - "Ooh, that hill! I'm almost out of Life and Death"
Skin - Thick and Thin
Brain - Watch and Chain
Boss - Dead Loss 
Frankie Howard - Coward
Apple Cider - spider ("That Apple Cider has 'orrible 'airy Scotch Eggs")
Calcutta - Butter ("Pass the Calcutta over here would ya please?")
Happy Hour - Flour ("Go dahn the Frog and Toad and buy me a bag of Happy Hour would'ya?")
Frog and Toad - road
Ball of Fat - Cat
Adam and Eve – believe
apples and pears – stairs
Artful Dodger – lodger
Ascot Races – braces
Baked Bean – Queen
Baker’s Dozen – Cousin
Ball and Chalk – Walk
Barnaby Rudge – Judge
Barnet Fair – hair
Barney Rubble – trouble
Battlecruiser – boozer
bees and honey – money
bird lime – time (in prison)
Boat Race – face
Bob Hope – soap
bottle and glass – ****
Brass Tacks – facts
Bread and Cheese – sneeze
Bread and Honey – money
Bricks and Mortar – daughter
Bristol City – breasts
Brown Bread – dead
Bubble and Squeak – Greek
Bubble Bath – Laugh
butcher’s hook – a look
Chalfont St. Giles – piles
Chalk Farm – arm
china plate – mate (friend)
Cock and Hen – ten
Cows and Kisses – Missus (wife)
currant bun – sun (also The Sun, a British newspaper)
custard and jelly – telly (television)
Daisy Roots – boots
Darby and Joan – moan
Dicky bird – word
Dicky Dirt – shirt
Dinky Doos – shoes
dog and bone – phone
dog’s meat – feet [from early 20th c.]
Duck and Dive – skive
Duke of Kent – rent
dustbin lid – kid
Elephant’s Trunk – drunk
Fireman’s Hose – nose
Flowery Dell – cell
Gypsy’s kiss – ****
half-inch – pinch (to steal)
Hank Marvin – starving
irish pig – wig
Isle of Wight – tights
jam-jar – car
joanna – piano (pronounced ‘pianna’ in Cockney)
Khyber Pass – ****
Kick and Prance – dance
Lady Godiva – fiver
Laugh n a joke – smoke
Lionel Blairs – flares
Loaf of Bread – head
loop the loop – soup
Mickey Bliss – ****
Mince Pies – eyes
Mork and Mindy – windy’
north and south – mouth
Orchestra stalls – balls
Pat and Mick – sick
Peckham Rye – tie
plates of meat – feet
Pony and Trap – crap
Roast Pork – fork
Rosy Lee – tea (drink)
Round the Houses – trousers
Rub-a-Dub – pub
Ruby Murray – curry
Sausage Roll – goal
sherbert (short for sherbert dab) – cab (taxi)
Skin and Blister – sister
Sky Rocket – pocket
Sweeney Todd – flying squad
tables and chairs – stairs
tea leaf – thief
Todd Sloane – alone
tomfoolery – jewellery
trouble and strife – wife
two and eight – state (of upset)
Vera Lynn – gin
whistle and flute – suit (of clothes)
jack and jill - hill


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> Here is some cockney slang. My first hubby was true cockney so forgive my facination
> 
> 50p - Edges (comes from the shape of the coin, i.e the edges)
> £5 is a fiver - Lady Godiva is the rhyme
> ...


Yes!

Real working glass English (and by extension other peoples in the are) have a language that is almost incomprehensible to anyone not from there.

We have relatives from Scotland that I can barely understand. I think in person it would be fine.

I had the opportunity to visit Australia a few times. Queensland mostly, the slang and accents were just what you would think. 

I have a very "American" accent. Guess it is the generation thing. Read something recently that said that Texans are losing their accent because they hear language from media/TV etc more than their parents. Interesting if true.


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

I must say I quite enjoyed all the British accents during Breeders Cup coverage. And the manners.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

@aubie funny you bring up manners. there is good and bad manners everywhere, and sometimes its the most uncouth people have the better manners. IME American's are some of the most hospitable people in their own country, but they are often known as brash and even rude on OE. If you want directions to anywhere in London don't ask a Londoner, ask an American with an A-Z they will get you anywhere. While the locals are not usually rude, they simply don't know their way around outside of about a mile square of their home!
@jgnmoose


> We have relatives from Scotland that I can barely understand. I think in person it would be fine.


My sister and I went to Scotland with Mum when we were kids to meet a remote great aunt (my Gran's sister I think) I have quite distinct memories of the trip though I was only nine. Mum and the aunt/uncle had to slow their conversation down to understand each other. After a few days mum and the aunt managed ok, sister and i didn't see much of the uncle


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

I have a hard time understanding some accents. I have mentioned I have some hearing issues. But some have it far worse than me.

Her in the South we are known for hospitality. It's for real here.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

aubie said:


> I have a hard time understanding some accents. I have mentioned I have some hearing issues. But some have it far worse than me.
> 
> Her in the South we are known for hospitality. It's for real here.


My dad tells tales of the Russian culture he grew up in. The Russians seem to have a sort of tradition that when the host asks you to stay for a meal (and they always do lol), you have to decline. The host will ask you another five or six (forgot the exact number) times and the last time you almost grudgingly accept. It's unpolite to accept the first round!  They're also very hospitable.


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

Interesting never heard that. Here we just say youeatyet? Fix you a plate. Yes one I for forgot. Fixen'. Mean going to most of the time here and not repair. And I will admit to saying something like I'm fixen to fix the toaster or whatever.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

aubie said:


> Interesting never heard that. Here we just say youeatyet? Fix you a plate. Yes one I for forgot. Fixen'. Mean going to most of the time here and not repair. And I will admit to saying something like I'm fixen to fix the toaster or whatever.


I say fixen' every now and then, and a lot of the people around here look at me funny when I do. They understand what I mean though, so its not like I say "I'm fixen' to go to town today", and they're like "how can you fix going somewhere?" lol.

I really love the Southern culture, language, accent, and everything else, so living down South for a while is def one of the things I want to do in the (hopefully) not so distant future!


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

I am going to quote the great Ralph Wiggum.. Me Fail English.. That's Unpossible.
Or like they say I ain't not no un dummy..LOL


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## valley ranch (Oct 12, 2017)

Great thread~ I love languages~ I'm American~ of Armenian decent~ born in California~wife is Australian~ the girls have Ausi accents because they were home schooled```Ես կվերադառնամ եւ կարդացեք թեմաները սկիզբը ( I'll go back and read each post from the beginning)``` I love you guys~ this will be fun~me thinks```


Richard


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## valley ranch (Oct 12, 2017)

Greeitngs Caledonian~



Caledonian said:


> Scots evolved from languages brought in from Europe about 1500 years ago so may have had some influence.
> 
> Canada has a very close relationship with Britain and the English language but there’s also just as many Gaelic speakers there as we have here as far as I know. I also know some people who make the journey to specifically speak in Scots.
> 
> We had Pictish as well but it was swallowed up by the others centuries ago and can only be found in place names etc. Similar with the native british.


Hi~ If you'd take a moment to reply concerning the "Picts"

The truth about the Picts | The Independent

Origins of the Picts & Scots
hal_macgregor.tripod.com/gregor/Scythia.html
The Picts were definitely not Gaels, they spoke a different language and had different ... The Scots, on the other hand, were a branch of the Irish Celts or Gaels.

I read once~ it may be a yarn~ but~ that the secret of making Heather Ail was lost with the death by drowning of the last Pict`

Go raibh maith agat

Richard


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

valley ranch said:


> Greeitngs Caledonian~
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A bit more history about Picts and Scotti Apparently Picts didn't die out , just became part of the peoples of Scotland.
.
BBC - Scotland - Education - See You See Me - Scots and Picts - Teacher's Notes


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> I'm kiwi I should get this, right?
> 
> 'Tomorrow afternoon Shane (Shaun, Shannon) and me are going to the bottle store (Store/shop that sells alcohol) to grab some beer. Make sure Dave doesn't come over and take (pinch, steal) all the avocados, we need them for the barbeque'


Yep, except the only Shazza I know is a Sharon


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

At school we were doing a pantomime. Jack and the Beanstalk. I had the part of the giants Irish cook. The teacher told me to perfect my Orish accent. 

I was ill for a week and during this time I had the grandmother of an Irish family locally read the lines and I would imitate her. Back at school we had a practise and I read out my lines. The others all stood there wondering what the heck I was saying. The accent was so broad words were only intelligible to another broad Irish person.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

george the mule said:


> Brits: A "Horse float". With big balloons, I suppose.
> 
> Steve


 Brits don't have horse floats - that's the Aussies
Our milk used to be delivered door to door in a Milk Float - when I was young and read an Australian horse book I imagined their horses travelling in something like our Milk Floats
Brits have horse trailers and horse boxes
Or I could say 
'I've gorra oss trailer' (I've got a horse trailer)


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## aubie (Aug 24, 2013)

Nicking = stealing correct? I heard that on a fantastic series on British tv called Dererk. It's from Ricky Gervais. Karl was in the first season, love to hear him talk.

HBO had a show of them with Steven Merchant. It was an animated show called the Ricky Gervais show. It was made taking their podcast and animating it. It was brilliantly done and they were just talking liked hearing different words used in conversation.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

valley ranch said:


> Greeitngs Caledonian~
> 
> 
> Hi~ If you'd take a moment to reply concerning the "Picts"
> ...


 Hi Richard. 

The lack of Pictish written records meant that a lot of the information came from biased and ill-informed sources, who saw them as savages or mythical creatures. 

Even before the discovery of the Pictish monastery a number of years ago, people were seeing them as a civilised society, at least in Scotland. The beautiful art, jewellery, buildings and standing stones were evidence enough and people were questioning what was in the written sources. I don’t think that savages would’ve had the time to carve intricate horses and riders, animals, symbols and patterns on the standing stones and create high status silver jewellery.

They did seem to change their religious buildings with their conversion to Christianity. However, the creation of advanced buildings as well as the ability to read and write (in some form) and produce items for trade would already have been in existence before the time of the monastery from 550 to 800 AD. There was an area predating and close to the monastery that had evidence of settlement and production which was also linked to a nearby Roman site. Skills such as these would’ve been essential to allow them to trade.

There’s also evidence from excavations in the Aberdeenshire area that showed that, even around 400 to 500 AD, they had access to trade routes as far afield as the Eastern Mediterranean. 

The Picts weren’t Gaels/Scots, they were descendants from the first people who moved here from Europe around 6000 years ago; probably sailing up the east coast until they found suitable areas to settle. There’s evidence in the north of Scotland that they built a Neolithic temple complex, farming community and the first stone circles, about 5000 years ago. It’s considered to be unique in Europe and influenced ideas throughout Britain. Their understanding of building techniques, farming, astronomy and standing stones was advance even before the time of the monastery. They weren’t a backward people. 

Their language is extinct and can only be heard in place names starting with ‘Aber’ or ‘Pitt’. Some say that it was a P-Celtic language related to ancient British or a Q-Celtic language from Ireland, others say it predated the Celtic languages, surviving from the original settlers. It may be that it was a mix and contact with different groups was changing it. They were known to need translators when talking to other groups, including the Gaels. 

Generally, their religion is unknown but it’s thought that they had colourful sacred sites and worshipped a Goddess. Women were seen as the equal of men and succession in leadership was through the mother’s side. I don’t believe that that came from the Irish; it would’ve been part of the existing religion brought over by the settlers. When the Christian missionaries eventually converted them, with Columba being the most successful; it would’ve been a radical change but as the article suggested, it altered the way they built and it might’ve helped them amalgamate with the other groups sharing the islands.

The article said that the Romans called them ‘Picts’ meaning ‘painted people’ suggesting that they were painted or tattooed. The Irish also called them ‘Cruithni’ meaning ‘people of designs’ but, as far as I’m aware, there’s no evidence to suggest that they were marked. It was probably a reference to their clothes. Their name may’ve come from a word they used for themselves and was misunderstood by the Romans. ‘Pitt’ is seen in a lot of place names and means ‘a shared land’.

They were tribal but overtime, whether it was by gradual change or force, they merged with the Gaelic kingdom of Dál Riata, Northumbrian/Lothian, Strathclyde, becoming the Scots by the 11th century. 

They didn’t disappear though, as a DNA marker has been found that shows they are still living amongst us. 

As for Heather Ale, I’ve no idea. LOL


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

In the UK we have a type of dog called a Lurcher. It is usually a multi X breed butnwas originally a Border Collie dog to a Greyhound *****. They are great hunting dogs and favoured by many a poacher. A good Lurcher will bring down a good sized deer. 

To lurch also meant to steal so, a very appropriate name. 

The word 'nick' can mean to steal something, as in 'he nicked a packet of ****.'(cigarettes) it can also mean prison. 'He's in the nick for nicking a packet of ****.' The police, when they caught him might well have said, when they arrested him, "You're nicked."


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> @aubie funny you bring up manners. there is good and bad manners everywhere, and sometimes its the most uncouth people have the better manners. IME American's are some of the most hospitable people in their own country, but they are often known as brash and even rude on OE. If you want directions to anywhere in London don't ask a Londoner, ask an American with an A-Z they will get you anywhere. While the locals are not usually rude, they simply don't know their way around outside of about a mile square of their home!
> 
> @jgnmoose
> My sister and I went to Scotland with Mum when we were kids to meet a remote great aunt (my Gran's sister I think) I have quite distinct memories of the trip though I was only nine. Mum and the aunt/uncle had to slow their conversation down to understand each other. After a few days mum and the aunt managed ok, sister and i didn't see much of the uncle


I'm becoming more interested in genealogy as I get older. It only recently occurred to me that they have that accent because English is not the original language. Simplistic, maybe even stupid on my part, but it was quite a revelation. 

I can only imagine trying to understand people to the point that you don't feel rude for asking "say again?". 

I think it will be sad if Texans ever loose our Texan'isms. The accent is fading. You won't meet a lot of teenagers here that have much of one. But they still say "y'all", and "fixin'to" and say 'yes sir' and 'yes ma'am' when asked a question by an elder. 

It is strange to see that shift, but it is happening and probably always has been an ongoing thing.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

jgnmoose said:


> I think it will be sad if Texans ever loose our Texan'isms. The accent is fading. You won't meet a lot of teenagers here that have much of one. But they still say "y'all", and "fixin'to" and say 'yes sir' and 'yes ma'am' when asked a question by an elder.
> 
> It is strange to see that shift, but it is happening and probably always has been an ongoing thing.


Nooo! No more handsome texan cowboys with that lovely Texas accent? Whatever shall we do.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Times move on! A lot of this is due to the radio and television. Years ago the BBC would only employ announcers who spoke very correctly, now they have many who speak very incorrectly. 

Way back in the dark ages people rarely travelled far from the villages they were born in. In 1665 there was an outbreak of the Black Plague, (Beubonic Plague) it spread throughout England, thousands died yet there were whole villages that survived and historians wanted to know why. When they exhumed bodies they found that these people had certain T cells which gave them immunity naturally. It was confined mostly to certain areas. As people didn't usually travel far it was a genetic 'thing'. 

Much the same with dialects, now people travel more, they are exposed to TV and accents fade and die.


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