# Trailer tire opinions sought



## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

boots said:


> I'll be buying a set of tires for my BP 3 horse slant.
> 
> Am interested in tire recommendations. I drive about half on highway/pavement and half on tire busting dirt/gravel roads. I'm hearing 10, 12, and even 14 ply because of the dirt. And "stick with radials" because of the highways and general handling.
> 
> I can't have both.


I know this sounds like a goofy question, but are these gravel roads the small pea type gravel or lager shale rock surface. The shale cuts tires much more readily. Also, do you haul "heavy" (full load and gear) mostly?

The more ply the stiffer the sidewall so keep that in mind as well because it will make a difference in the ride quality.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Shale. I've had both rear tires (radials) repaired this fall. I'm thinking of going to 12 or 14 ply on them, too, this spring when they'll be ready to be changed. Most ranchers run 12 ply on their trucks and get the added insurance on the radials for their cars. I don't use a car.

I don't pull heavy (I run 60% of GVWR tops), but I cover a lot of miles. 

Would I lose that much handling and economy with the 12 ply?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Whatever you do, don't buy ST tires, buy LT's. If you've been buying/using ST's and have had a lot of problems, the fact they were ST's is likely at the root of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Maybe this is a dumb question but what is ST and LT?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

ST are trailer tires ("Special Trailer") and LT's are Light Truck tires. 

LT's can be legally used on trailers and are typically constructed to much higher standards of quality vs ST's which are increasingly junk right off the boat from China. 

If you spend any time around some RV Forums you'll soon discover a huge majority of serious rv'ers have ditched ST tires a long time ago in favor of LT tires which are dramatically less problematic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mingiz (Jan 29, 2009)

Agree go with a Light truck tire. I run them on my LQ and have never had an issue. Also make sure that you get an E rated or better. 

I don't know how true it is. But my tire guy told me that on a regular vehicle like a car or truck. Unless it's an off road tire most warranties are voided. I just bought tires for my car and got a cheaper brand because I live on a dirt road and that would void any warranty because of it. Because it's a road tire and not off road...


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Mingiz said:


> Agree go with a Light truck tire. I run them on my LQ and have never had an issue. Also make sure that you get an E rated or better.
> 
> I don't know how true it is. But my tire guy told me that on a regular vehicle like a car or truck. Unless it's an off road tire most warranties are voided. I just bought tires for my car and got a cheaper brand because* I live on a dirt road and that would void any warranty because of it. Because it's a road tire and not off road..*.


That would lose a place much of their business in WY and MT! I don't know of anyone who has had that problem, fortunately.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

PrivatePilot said:


> ST are trailer tires ("Special Trailer") and LT's are Light Truck tires.
> 
> LT's can be legally used on trailers and are typically constructed to much higher standards of quality vs ST's which are increasingly junk right off the boat from China.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

A good quality light truck tire is a great upgrade. When I did this many years ago on a double decker car hauler my tire issues went away completely. 

Shale is a b#tch, especially after it is freshly graded. This is when the little ******s seem to be on edge (rather than laying flat) and seem to slice treads and casings.


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## Mingiz (Jan 29, 2009)

boots said:


> That would lose a place much of their business in WY and MT! I don't know of anyone who has had that problem, fortunately.


I agree. I thought it sounded weird. But this is Missouri. lol:wink:


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

go with L T only the money you save is big


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I'm running LTs now. The trailer tires are worn and need replaced when I start using it in the spring. The truck tires will need replaced in the spring.

The question is: Radials versus 10 ply versus 12 or even 14 ply? Anyone have experience with all of those?


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Ply ratings are for weight carrying capacity, basically... a higher weight carrying capacity will make for a stiffer tire in the end which in extreme circumstances may indeed result in a tire that is more resistant to road damage. Basically, something being used at a lower percentage of its capabilities is less likely to be damaged than something being used at the bleeding edge of it's capabilities already. 

I'd keep the tread pattern in mind as well - a beefy/chunky tread pattern may be noisier (not a concern on a trailer anyways) but will be more resistant to tread damage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

PrivatePilot said:


> Ply ratings are for weight carrying capacity, basically... a higher weight carrying capacity will make for a stiffer tire in the end which in extreme circumstances may indeed result in a tire that is more resistant to road damage. Basically, something being used at a lower percentage of its capabilities is less likely to be damaged than something being used at the bleeding edge of it's capabilities already.
> 
> I'd keep the tread pattern in mind as well - a beefy/chunky tread pattern may be noisier (not a concern on a trailer anyways) but will be more resistant to tread damage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

*Not all trailer tires are made overseas*.... 
Look around and know the country of origin before spending any money.

Interesting that all the research I did found that the trailer tire in appropriate class to vehicle needs had a beefier sidewall than any LT tire.

I just purchased new trailer tires....
Now, I don't drive on shale but do do off-road forestry roads which are not always nicely maintained and also drive paved roads.
My trailer tires were less money than LT tires, fit my trailer, are what my trailer manufacturer called for. When I checked with my insurance agent with a "what if?" question my insurance would pay if there was a problem and the trailer had on _trailer tires_. If I put on LT tire, no....on my own $$ wise. 

There are other threads about the tire issue on this site from not all that long ago, look back and see what was written. 
I know I gave links to the articles I read about the true differences between truck and trailer tire construction....
Factual information by experts in the industry....enlightening to read after reading many opinions here.

To me, truck tires belong on a truck, trailer tires belong on a trailer.
In a pinch sure you can use them _{truck tires}_....but should you for a long time...well, that is something you need to discover and make decisions about.
It is your life and that of the animals in your trailer you are held responsible for...

Good luck, happy shopping and do some research so you are a very informed consumer of facts not opinion. Then make your purchase.....

_Of course that is MY OPINION, every one is entitled to have their own!!


_


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

This debate has been had a million times over on the large RV websites, there is no legality issues - an increasing number of RV manufacturers are actually sending their trailers out of the factory with LT tires on them now, placarded as such, and 100% legal. Anybody who is fear mongering based on potential insurance issues isn't doing so based on facts. 

You cannot legally use ST tires on a passenger vehicle, however using LT tires on a trailer is indeed 100% legal so long as they are rated to properly carry the axles weight carrying capacity. Yes it's not uncommon for LT tires to be rated somewhat less versus a ST, so that needs to be kept in mind – you may need to step up to a 10 ply versus an eight, or a 12 vs a 10, but I stand by the fact that with a few exceptions you end up with a better result. 

Can you still get a quality ST tire vs the "Chinese Trailer tire bombs" (Google it)? Yes, it is possible, and I have owned some of them in my past, however to find a ST tire in that quality and durability that rivals an LT The price usually ends up being the same or more versus an LT option in the end. 

There are LT tire manufacturers out there that actually declare that their LT tires are suitable for trailer usage, so the old fear mongering tactics that it's not legal or your insurance may somehow become void is simply untrue and needs to stop being spread as fact.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

boots said:


> Thank you.


Boots....also something to remember, about 75% of tire failures take place in the last 25% of the tires service life from a treadwear standpoint.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

horselovinguy said:


> *Not all trailer tires are made overseas*....
> Look around and know the country of origin before spending any money.
> 
> Interesting that all the research I did found that the trailer tire in appropriate class to vehicle needs had a beefier sidewall than any LT tire.
> ...


The trailer tire industry has some pretty good scare tactic advice for folks.

I used to haul a double stacker trailer behind a Renegade 45 foot RV (Freightliner Columbia twin-screw chassis). It had the best Goodyear Marathon trailer tires available on it. This is considered a premium trailer tire. We went through many. many right side tires....never a left and always in daylight hours. Our conclusion was that the sidewalls of the curb side tires flex much more than the drivers side due to the crowning of the pavement. This resulted in the curbside tires flexing much more than the right due to the constant falling away and recovery and this caused sidewall failure. 

After about ten or twelve curbside tires failing (and NEVER a driver side) we switched to a ten ply LT tire and NEVER experienced a tire failure again. 

For the record, tire pressure were always properly set, the trailer was NEVER over GVWR, load was always balanced and there were no issues mechanical with the trailer.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

To each their own....

I only mentioned doing research for facts from the tire manufacturers, not RV sites or opinionated writings...but some of those places offer good thought provoking articles too. 
Sadly many of the articles written today *are* based on a "dead-load" _*not*_ live cargo. Both of you also know that...
To me a "double-stacker" is a_ {race}_ car hauler and "triple trailers" aren't horse trailers either.... 
_Yes_, I _have_ read both your comments before and took what you wrote further for investigation...

_"The trailer tire industry has some pretty good scare tactic advice for folks."
I didn't consider much of that. They are in a business to sell a product...
I needed to purchase a product so I had better be informed...

_ As for "insurance"....
_I asked my agent_, ..what I was told was what I stated.
If I was involved in a accident, my trailer was found the cause of the accident causing injury, a investigation done tires_ would _be inspected.
If the tire was not a "trailer tire" on a trailer...my neck was in a noose. 
Insurance company would not stand with me but would feed me to the wolves. 
No place was a designation of passenger tire or truck tire mentioned to me...just trailer tires belong on a trailer, truck tires on a truck.

Because people do it doesn't make it right.
Is it...legal...IDK.:???:

I hope to never need to find out _exactly_ what the laws are in my area... 
_I just know I run legal, period!_

My point is make darn sure you know the small details in your state to what the laws read and what are followed. 
The United States and Canada are not the same regarding all things and not every state allows the same as the neighboring states in vehicles either... 
_Check your local laws and buyer beware. Be informed...._

Happy shopping...

Now I bid you a good evening and bow out of your discussion....
I wish all safe travels.
:wink:


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

horselovinguy said:


> To each their own....
> 
> 
> I wish all safe travels.
> :wink:


Advice taken. I'll check before I buy.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

horselovinguy said:


> To each their own....
> 
> I only mentioned doing research for facts from the tire manufacturers, not RV sites or opinionated writings...but some of those places offer good thought provoking articles too.
> Sadly many of the articles written today *are* based on a "dead-load" _*not*_ live cargo. Both of you also know that...
> ...


Hauled Ducati motorcycles actually. Four up top and six on the bottom. About 25k per, so that's a pretty pricy load. 

We also owned a Michelin tire distributorship.....I'm sure you have heard of the brand:wink:


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

STT GUY said:


> We also owned a Michelin tire distributorship.....I'm sure you have heard of the brand:wink:



Interesting......

Yet you ran competitors tires.......

Like I said....quite a difference running a "dead" load versus "live" cargo.

The $$ worth of what you hauled....think anyone who truly loves horses, riding and has spent the $$ investing in trucks, trailers and such would all say their "cargo" was price-less ....
_At least my horses are price-less to me!!_
:wink:

_Enjoy your day....and to all I wish a Merry Christmas, safe and Happy New Year and *especially safe travels to all........*_:wave:


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## BoldComic (Feb 26, 2012)

We've run LT tires on our trailers and never had a problem with insurance. You can't run lower tires than your vehicle is rated for but you can run higher. Putting LT tires on a trailer is not only okay it's much better. We would blow out a tire with ST tires on our trailer almost every trip. That's why we switched to LT. We haven't had a blowout since. However, we do get new tires every 4-5 years irregardless of tread wear because tires do have a shelf life. I would never go on a long haul with 5 year old tires even if the tread was still good. Tires are one of those things that are just going to cost ya. But when you are flying down the highway at 70-80MPH with nothing but that rubber between your horses and the asphalt I think you'll agree it's worth it.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

horselovinguy said:


> Interesting......
> 
> Yet you ran competitors tires.......
> 
> ...


We used and still run Michelins on our big rigs (their OTR track tires are truly the benchmark of the category), passenger cars and motorcycles. I did use Cooper AT3 ten ply here recently on the F-150 because the Michelins tended to cut rather easily from the sharp shale rocks on our local gravel roads, its notable that the ride quality went to sh$t with that compromise. 

The OEM tires on new trailers as delivered were Goodyear Marathons, a trailer specific model and supposedly premium tire. When we switched to Michelin LT tires no more problems.....ever. 

No difference between live or non-live cargo in my book, I don't want any of my cargo damaged nor do I want to have a situation where my trailer or load causes harm to others. I have been successful in this regard since I was 16. That result comes from proper maintenance and mostly safe and responsible driving habits. 

FWIW, I have yet to meet someone who suffered a problem when switching from a trailer specific tire to a light truck tire, I know dozens of folks who's tire problems went away after said switch. That's my "research......or maybe everyone was just lucky.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I would suggest having a little bit of a sit down with your insurance agent and clearing up the matter with him – ask him to show you caselaw where insurance company denied the claim because of the situation, or ask him to find a DOT statute or federal law where it says using a properly rated LT tire in place of an ST tire on the trailer is not legal. 

Depending on how determined he is it might take them a few days to get back to you, but I can tell you what the answers going to be – that he wasn't able to find anything to substantiate his claims. 

It's been a long-standing myth that using truck tires on a trailer is illegal or somehow will cause you issues in the case of an accident or insurance coverage, but I state again that is simply untrue. The problem is that people continue to spread it, and it's unfortunate to hear that even people in the insurance industry have drank the Kool-Aid. 

As for the suggestion that ST tires are highly problematic, once again I suggest you go and check out some threads on some of the large RV forums – it has been a hot topic for many, many years now and the exodus in favor of LT tires is massive, and like I said even many of the higher quality trailer manufacturers are now coming on board with the change. There are simply so many stories -- rarely a day goes by without a thread of someone's RV being damaged as a result of an ST blowout (usually without any valid reason) and countless stories over many years of people using LT tires, and NO stories of anyone having had legal issues as a result of the decision, either. 

And I don't get the live versus dead load argument, either. By that argument anybody with a gooseneck horse trailer should run ST tires on the backs of their trucks because they somehow handle the movement of the animals better than an LT that is otherwise carrying many thousands of pounds of the trailer load? Outside of hauling horses with my personal truck and trailer combination, I am a commercial over the road truck driver with 20 years experience, including livestock experience, and it's my opinion that so far is weight carrying capacity of a tire is concerned, the tire doesn't really care – I have hauled liquid loads that moved around far more than livestock loads and we don't use special tires.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

I didn't have time to put this in my previous post but do now.

The biggest problems we saw with trailer specific tires were as follows:

*Age:* Tread might seem great, but a 15 year old tire exposed to the elements sitting static can suffer substantial degradation. _*Example,*_ last year I bought a neat little 1997 Logan 2 horse straight load. Had less than 2,000 miles on it, had been garaged and the original tires which looked new. YIKES! Sure as heck, one delaminated going down I-15 and I felt the vibration, pulled over and changed to the (just as old) spare and made it home no problem and then bought new tires.

*Underinflation:* Probably the number one cause of catastrophic tire failure (aka spontaneous disassembly). A tires number one enemy is heat. An underinflated tire flexes more than it was designed to. We all have flexed a paperclip back and forth until it heats up and catastrophically fails (breaks in two). An underinflated tire experiences a similar phenomenon and as it heats up the materials, specifically the area where the tread is vulcanized to the carcass, and can fail wit little or no warning. We call this tread separation and if not caught in time leads to a total failure of the tire (blow-out). NOTE: This is compounded by high ambient temperatures and high speeds. 


*Overloading:* Very similar to underinflation but in addition to flexing, it loads the sidewalls , bead and ply structure of the tire beyond what it was engineered to accept safely. Check your tires load rating....are you near the max? If yes, select a tire that will allow you to fully load your trailer but not exceed 80% of the load rating.

*High Speeds:* Friction creates heat, heat kills tires and causes tread separation. We've all seen the guy hauling his livestock at 80+ MPH down the interstate in the middle of summer. Even with proper inflation and a load within the limits this is stressing a tire. Heat combined with the centrifugal forces of the tires spinning at such high speeds can cause failures. NOTE: Light Truck tires typically have higher speed ratings than trailer specific tires. This means an LT tire with hold its structural integrity at higher speeds. 

*Sketchy Repairs:* "Plugging" a tire is an emergency repair. A small puncture should be repaired by dismounting the tire and applying a proper self-vulcanizing patch from the inside. Plugging can and does cause damage to the ply and casing which can cause sudden failure.

*Worn Tread: *Stats show that with ANY vehicle tire, approximately 75%-80% of tire failures happen in the final 20% of the tires tread life. A nearly worn-out tires seems to be able to go from "looks ok" to "Holy C#ap, I just drove in on THAT?!!" in no time. Replacing a tire when it arrives at the wear indicators is a safe rathey than sorry insurance policy


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

The speed rating issue is definitely worth mentioning as above – almost all ST rated tires are placarded for a maximum of 65 mph. 

Now that said, I'm not sure why somebody would want to haul a trailer at speeds higher than this anyways, but I'm nevertheless left amazed at the number of people online who state that they are regularly towing in the 75 or 80+ mile-per-hour range. 

Not surprisingly some of them have experienced blowouts as a result, which further cemented their decision to go with an LT tire instead which by default carry significantly higher speed ratings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

PrivatePilot said:


> The speed rating issue is definitely worth mentioning as above – almost all ST rated tires are placarded for a maximum of 65 mph.
> 
> Now that said, I'm not sure why somebody would want to haul a trailer at speeds higher than this anyways, but I'm nevertheless left amazed at the number of people online who state that they are regularly towing in the* 75 or 80+ mile-per-hour range. *
> 
> ...


Rodeo competitors are the only ones I know who do that. My top handling speed and for stopping is 65 to 67. 

And some goober legislators voted to make much of our interstates 80 mph. Most car drivers don't handle that well and they darn sure don't pay enough attention to drive that fast.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

boots said:


> Rodeo competitors are the only ones I know who do that. My top handling speed and for stopping is 65 to 67.
> 
> And some goober legislators voted to make much of our interstates 80 mph. Most car drivers don't handle that well and they darn sure don't pay enough attention to drive that fast.


Utah same deal 80 mph on interstates and I see people pulled over..HOW FAST do they need to go?! At 80 mph loaded you need about 600 feet in ideal conditions to stop. The amounts of stupid on our roads is incredible.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I split another truck tire on the way to town last week. 4ply is what is on pick ups off the lot. Why even make a tire that light? 

My tire guy had a used one to put on until I replace all of them. Interestingly,, it seems that with oil prices going down, tires prices may be lower when I buy in the spring. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if they were since I'll be buying 8.


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## STT GUY (Apr 23, 2014)

boots said:


> I split another truck tire on the way to town last week. 4ply is what is on pick ups off the lot. Why even make a tire that light?
> 
> My tire guy had a used one to put on until I replace all of them. Interestingly,, it seems that with oil prices going down, tires prices may be lower when I buy in the spring. Wouldn't hurt my feelings if they were since I'll be buying 8.


Ride quality......most PUs never see a dirt road or a load in the bed.


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