# Bitless in Lessons



## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

I would bring it up when you ask for the availability of lessons. Your back story is a pretty plausible reason for your request, so nobody should be offended. You can then do with their response what you feel is right. If they are offended at such an ordinary inquiry, consider it having dodged a bullet.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Mewlie said:


> *would you find it rude/uncouth to request taking lessons and riding lesson horses bitless?
> *


*Yes...*

To take lessons and you tell the lesson barn and instructor how and what tack to use on _*their horses...*_
_No, just no._

I want to know why you have a aversion to riding with a bit?
What has changed your opinion? 
What educated information have you read, investigated and researched that you feel the need to dictate the equipment a barn uses when they are instructing you in how to ride, and ride properly?

Don't get me wrong...
There *are *very valid reasons to go bit-less...
Those decisions though are made by the horses owner & rider...
Those decisions I have never, ever heard a student tell a professional trainer, instructor and or the animals owner.
I just have never heard it done by a student... :-|

I don't mean that to sound as it reads...it is just surprising/startling to me.
Student dictate to the riding school... :-?
_I *don't* think so._
:runninghorse2:....
_jmo..._


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## Mewlie (Apr 14, 2017)

Interesting to get very different responses!

@*mmshiro* - Thank you for your opinion!
@*horselovinguy* - Thank you for the feedback! I just find riding bitless to be more fitting for me and for how I want to ride. My horses appear to have a more enjoyable, relaxing time of it as well. 

I wouldn't dare demand that I ride bitless and I have no qualms about riding lesson horses in bits. The preference would just be to take lessons closer to the same way I would ride at home, though of course what type of bridle one utilizes isn't the only tool used when riding!

I simply don't want to offend anyone, and certainly don't want to imply that I will _only _take lessons bitless!


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Mewlie said:


> Interesting to get very different responses!


I think we responded from different view points. My point of view was in regard to approaching a barn you don't take lessons with yet. You have to ask in order to know, right? 

It's a different issue to want to switch to bitless after having taken lessons for a while. In that case, I'd approach it with a general conversation about bitless riding to "test the water". From that conversation you will be able to sense how receptive they are to the idea without having to make any demands. 

But before ever speaking to them - how else would you find out if they offer that option in the first place other than by asking?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Why are you then not hauling your horse to lessons and ride your horse in the tack you prefer?
I agree with hLG. Lesson barns have tack on their hroses that they consider works on those hroses and their own training ideology
My one friend takes lessons with someone that is all into bittless, treeless, and that is fine. In other words, if you wish to deviate either from how hroses are ridden in a particular barn, or how that instructor trains, including tack, then YOU need to find a barn that fits your needs
I ride without a helmet., most times, but if I ride at a barn where helmets are part of policy, I wear a helmet
I used to train young horses with a snaffle and running martingale. When I took a clinic with one particular reining/working cowhorse trainer, who asked me why I had a running martingale on my three year old horse, and to take it off and develop true feel, I did so. 
I did not tell him, 'well that is the way I ride'!


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## Mewlie (Apr 14, 2017)

I hope there hasn't been a misunderstanding. In no way am I saying that any trainer or barn has to adhere to the way I ride, I'm only wondering if it would be offensive to ask if they have a bitless option available. 

@*Smilie* - A vehicle capable of towing is on the Christmas list! Until then, I rely on the generosity of the neighbors to haul to any appointments. I'm also looking to ride different horses, not only my own. If that means riding in a bit, no problem, but bitless is preferred!


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't think there is any harm in asking if a lesson program happens to have any horses that could go bitless, assuming you ask in a pleasant way. If you said something like, "I am coming off a 6 year riding break so am looking for some eyes on the ground as I get back into the swing of things. I normally ride my horse bitless, so was wondering if any of your lesson horses go that way so I can show you what I am doing at home," I don't see any reasonable instructor taking offense.


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## Mewlie (Apr 14, 2017)

@phantomhorse13 -Thank you, especially for the wording on approach! I know bitless riding isn't quite the norm but I'm hoping there will be somewhere in my area that might not object to it. I'm not quite sure what the overall attitude is in the horse scene around here quite yet. I certainly don't want to have anyone think I expect them to cater to my preferences! Nothing worse than starting off on the wrong foot and then becoming the name no one wants around at the barn. :shock:


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

I think as long as you know you may be told it's not possible and don't get snotty about it, hopefully you won't have an issue.


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## Light (Mar 4, 2012)

Hi, 

Didn't read all the replies. 

I wouldn't ask on your first lesson. 
Most lesson horses have their own tack, that they are hopefully comfortable being ridden in. I don't think you should change that. Not all horses can be ridden or are trained to ride with out a bit. Not all places will have access to a bitless bridle, and may not want their horses using another horse's bridle.. 

If it was me, I would start out taking lessons using the tack provided, then if you want, ride your own horses without a bit.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

phantomhorse13 said:


> I don't think there is any harm in asking if a lesson program happens to have any horses that could go bitless, assuming you ask in a pleasant way. If you said something like, "I am coming off a 6 year riding break so am looking for some eyes on the ground as I get back into the swing of things. I normally ride my horse bitless, so was wondering if any of your lesson horses go that way so I can show you what I am doing at home," I don't see any reasonable instructor taking offense.


I second this - I don't see any harm in it either, it's a simple question, one with a good reason behind it.  If they say no, no big deal! It doesn't hurt to ask.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I guess my question, would be why.
If you wish to ride your own horse bitless that is fine. If I was taking lessons on someone's hrose, where the horses in that program were being ridden bitless, I would not ask as to whether I could use a bit.
While I believe any well broke hrose should ride bitless, I also believe any horse well broke should also ride with a bit, mouth issues excluded.
If you are really hung up on all bits being evil, then great to find a riding stable that agrees with your stance.
Otherwise, you yourself will gain in riding knowledge, riding correctly with a bit, as well as without
Numerous free style bitless demos, on hroses usually ridden with bits, prove that a well broke horse rides off of legs and seat, with what is on his head, not a concern
Just my thoughts, but that is not to say there is any harm in asking, even though I really don't get it!


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## InexcessiveThings (Oct 22, 2016)

I would also say there's really no harm in asking if a barn has any lesson horses that do go bitless prior to beginning lessons there. I do also agree with previous posts though that every horse is going to have the tack that they go best in, including bits. So if the lesson horse has a preferred bit (or I suppose bitless option, perhaps) then I wouldn't want to ask to change that at my own preference. If I were you, I would go ahead and ask around at any lesson barns I was considering and if they all say no, then it would no big deal to just ride the lesson horses in whatever bit they like until the time comes when I would be able to transport my own occasionally to ride bitless in my lessons.


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## SketchyHorse (May 14, 2012)

Smilie said:


> If you are really hung up on all bits being evil, then great to find a riding stable that agrees with your stance.


I have to agree with this statement. It does _not_ sound like that is your issue with bits, but if it's an important of an aspect - find barns that fit that need.

I will add, from personal experience, if you're looking to dive into English you might have a harder time finding lesson horses who are ridden bitless. Since most English disciplines do not allow showing in hacks/bitless - you're not going to find many barns who put their lesson horses in them. It would ruin the "sell-ability" on a lot of their horses. I've personally only rode one lesson horse in a hack in 17yrs. 

_Now_, I ride my gelding bitless & with a bit. We do show & compete so staying 100% bitless wasn't an option. I don't ride him any differently between the two options. I just don't take up as much contact bitless usually.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Smilie said:


> I guess my question, would be why.
> If you wish to ride your own horse bitless that is fine.


The fact the OP rides her horse bitless _is_ why. The OP said she was away from riding for a while, so was looking for some lessons as she got started again. If she rides bitless at home, it makes sense to me that she would want to find a lesson horse that also goes bitless. In a perfect world, the OP would be able to take lessons on her actual horse using her own tack, but it doesn't sound like that is an option right now. So next best thing would be to use the same equipment she does at home on a lesson horse.

While going to a barn and learning something totally new can be fun in its own right, that is not necessarily going to help the OP when she gets home. The last lesson I took, it was using all my endurance tack on an endurance horse. I wanted to work on skills that were directly applicable to my personal situation. Had I gone to a western barn and taken a cutting lesson on a lesson horse in tack normal for that discipline, I would (hopefully) have gotten to experience something fun.. but it's unlikely I would find too much I could apply to my horses at home.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

Since the OP wants to ride as many different horses as possible, finding barns that offer bit less on many horses will be the more difficult task.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I have ridden my mare in a bit as well as bitless, and have done lessons in both. Frankly, it wasn't that different for us, but that's because she took to bitless very easily. It's just a matter of working with an instructor that is comfortable with it. That said, you can't just put a bitless bridle on a horse and expect everything to go smoothly. Some don't react well to bitless, and there is an almost endless variety of bitless bridles out there, some which work better than others with specific horses. Therefore, if you're taking riding lessons at a riding stable, using their horses, expect to use whatever tack the horses are used to. If you were taking lessons on your own horse it would be different, but I am gathering that is not the case here.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

phantomhorse13 said:


> The fact the OP rides her horse bitless _is_ why. The OP said she was away from riding for a while, so was looking for some lessons as she got started again. If she rides bitless at home, it makes sense to me that she would want to find a lesson horse that also goes bitless. In a perfect world, the OP would be able to take lessons on her actual horse using her own tack, but it doesn't sound like that is an option right now. So next best thing would be to use the same equipment she does at home on a lesson horse.
> 
> While going to a barn and learning something totally new can be fun in its own right, that is not necessarily going to help the OP when she gets home. The last lesson I took, it was using all my endurance tack on an endurance horse. I wanted to work on skills that were directly applicable to my personal situation. Had I gone to a western barn and taken a cutting lesson on a lesson horse in tack normal for that discipline, I would (hopefully) have gotten to experience something fun.. but it's unlikely I would find too much I could apply to my horses at home.


 I don't think there is anything fundamentally different, far as for the rider, riding either with a bit, or without one.
I often alternated between a bosal and a snaffle, with my young horses. I also started them with side pulls for awhile, until I decided the end result was no different, far as whether you threw in that bitless stage or not
My one friend takes lessons with someone who is completely into the bitless, treeless mindset, and rides her own horses that way. No problem, I respect her view.
Still, she does not feel comfortable riding her horses out on trails, so she rides hubby's horse Rubix, with me at times
I told her she could ride him bitless if she chose to, as he is broke. She decided to use her treeless saddle, but ride him in the bit he was used to
I gave her the usual bit Rubix rides in-a jointed mouth curb.

First time she rode him, was at our place, and I decided to take her on an easy ride across a field next to us. I heard her behind me, telling Rubix to'walk on', with Rubix backing instead. The hrose doe snot dot his. Then I saw she was riding with significant contact, so of course, Rubix though he should back up. Took some time for me to get her to give what I consider, slack in the reins.

At one clinic, I had a jr horse in a bosal. I was told to put a snaffle on, as I would get 'more' done-then show with a bosal if I liked. Instructor's view-o problem. I had a snaffle in my trailer and simply used it instead. 

Then there was the clinic I volunteered to teach for alocal light horse club. It was on starting young horses, so there was an arena of about 15 three year olds

One guy was there, having taken a Parelli clinic, riding a three year old, intended for his daughter, with a halter. That horse was all over the place, throwing head in the air, running into other horses. I finally told him to put a snaffle on that horse, or leave, as he was endangering other riders.

That in no way means a well broke horse should not ride well bitless, but for training, I do believe you get more finesse with abit, and as a rider, learn more by understanding how to ride correctly with various bits. Very easy, if you get that mastered, to ride bitless any time you want. No special training needed

Bitless is often a good choice for beginners, as there is less chance of doing harm, bitless, then getting into a horse's mouth incorrectly, however, greater finesse and communication is achieved with the correct feel of a bit,learning that fine balance between reins , and legs 

I don't think we are talking discipline specific here, just basic good riding, so don't see how a cutting lesson applies to endurance riding clinics. I don't take my English saddle and bridle that I ride HUS in, to a reining clinic either!

I think the OP would benefit in taking some lessons with a bit, and certainly that would have no negative impact, far as riding her horse bitless at home. She might even enjoy getting that horse educated to both, which a believe, is fundamental good basics. One thing to say I chose to ride my horse bitless, and another to say he MUST be ridden bitless (mouth issues and past bit abuse excluded)
Anyway, just my thoughts, and I am sure many here feel different!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The lessons I took were pretty laid back. I'm pretty sure the instructor would have said, "_Bring your bitless bridle with you and we'll put you on a horse who will respond to it._" I didn't like everything she did or taught, but she was interested in helping people with THEIR goals. She was also the sort you could ask to just take 4, 6, 8 lessons, whatever, to work on a specific thing. They were group lessons. We paid for an hour and they usually lasted two, just because. But if someone needed to leave early, that was fine too.

Don't think she is still around. Wish she was. My son rode for his 10th or 11th time today, not sure the exact number. It would be nice to send him to someone so he could get a dozen lessons in an arena on a lesson horse. The lady I took lessons from would have had no problem with that.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

If the OP wants to learn more about riding her own horse better in a bitless bridle, it might be important to specify to the person giving lessons what type of bitless is being used. "Lessons," obviously include a huge variety of riding styles. 

If someone asked me to give them lessons bitless, I'd need to know what they intended to use.

If they were using an english/mechanical hackamore on their horse, then they'd need to be riding on a loose rein and learning to neck rein and ride off seat and legs. Obviously the lesson horse would also need to know this, which is not always included in an english horse's education.

If they were riding in a bosal, they would need to learn the tug/release style of direct reining that is used with a bosal (unless they already had a horse that neck reined).

Many sidepulls and noseband style bitless bridles can be used with light contact similar to a snaffle, and direct reining.

Crossunder bridles are not good to use with contact, because they have a squeezing action that must be released, although not as quickly as a bosal. 

So yes, I'd say that there are many opportunities in lessons to learn how to ride well in a bitless bridle, but you'd need to make sure your instructor knows how to teach you to use what you are using on your horse.


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## Mewlie (Apr 14, 2017)

Thank you for all the responses, I truly appreciate it! The great takeaway from this thread: I won't know if it's an option unless I ask. 

I feel I should state for the sake of clarity that in no way do I think bits are evil or whatnot, I just prefer to ride without one. I learned to ride and rode 8+ years in a bit, so it is nothing new to me. Since I have ridden much less often (perhaps a total of 2 years, on and off) in a bitless bridle (a bosal, non-mechanical) I would like to work on my skills and aids in a bitless, especially since that is what I ride in at home. 

If no one has lessons horses that are able to be ridden bitless, oh well. There are still plenty of things I can learn and adapt to my own personal needs.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Mewlie said:


> Since I have ridden much less often (perhaps a total of 2 years, on and off) in a bitless bridle (a bosal, non-mechanical) I would like to work on my skills and aids in a bitless, especially since that is what I ride in at home.


Since you use a bosal, I'd look for someone who gives western riding lessons. Both Arab and QH trainers often show junior horses in bosals, so they can give lessons in the proper use. I've also seen bosal lessons given by reining and cutting horse trainers.
I wouldn't look at an english lesson facility, because their version of bitless would not teach you how to use a bosal. If you both want to use a bosal and ride in an english saddle or learn english disciplines, you might have to learn those skills separately and combine them later.

A common mistake people make with a bosal is use it with lower grade constant pressure. It's designed for pressure and release type tugging or bumping, but if a person just holds onto the face, the horse quickly learns to push through it and it loses its usefulness. The weight of the knot underneath allows the pressure to be released quickly, so the horse learns the reward.


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Haven't read the comments. But lesson horses usually are with a bit, most may not know how to go bit free. 
Unless you are using your own horse, who can ride without a bit, I would not be asking right off the bat. After several lessons, maybe then you can ask if any of them know how to go without a bit.
In the end, they should know how to move off seat + leg, so you may be able to get away with not using the bit for much until you get to the level of using finer cues.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Maybe, if you like riding with a bosal, even if your horse is older, why not look into taking lessons with a working cowhorse trainer?
They follow the Vaquero tradition , thus the bosal stage is standard in their programs
If you wish to learn to ride better , using a bosal, then lessons by someone who actually uses one correctly seems like the logical choice
Many average lesson barns are not going to have anyone instructing that really understands how to ride with a bosal correctly, even if they allow you to use one


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Second the advise, that if you like to ride with a bosal, even if your horse is past the jr age stage,I would look at taking some lessons with a working cowhorse trainer
They still follow the Vaquero tradition, thus the finer points of using a bosal are integral to their training programs.
The average riding barn, even if they allow you to ride in a bosal, are not going to have the expertise that will allow you to refine your riding with a bosal
No use taking lessons from someone who does not know how to teach you to use a bosal correctly!
It would be like me, taking lessons with a snaffle, from a gaited horse trainer, that starts horses in a curb! Not only do you need to find a barn that will allow you to ride with a bosal, but one where the instructor actually knows how to teach you, using that bosal, and even better, on a horse that has some training in one!


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I certainly see Smilies" point. Looking for a lesson barn that teaches western disciplines might be your best choice. I have always been interested in the bosal but I also know you just don't throw one on a horse and go. There is a science to properly using one, so I have saved myself and my horse grief and stuck with what I understand.
This doesn't help with your desire to move into English, but with some brushing up in the saddle any good rider should be able to switch to another style of saddle without too much difficulty. Out on the trail you can use whatever tack you and your horse are comfortable with! 
Wishing you success.


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## NCT (Mar 28, 2017)

Late jumping in but my daughter rides at a lesson barn that is completely bitless and mostly ride english. Multiple new horses have been added to the program since we've been there and they all take to the bitless quickly- they have 20+ horses & ponies all bitless. Even the boarders all end up bitless for the most part. I dont think there has been a horse that has come in that hasnt adjusted from what I can tell. From ponies to drafts, they do fine.
I think it's great for lesson barns especially when kids are starting out and not good with their hands. 

OP I don't think it would hurt to ask. When we are elsewhere and I mention my daughter (11 yrs old) rides bitless the main comment I hear is that their horses wouldnt stop without a bit which is funny because the horses at her barn are not super broke or half dead. She rides a 6 yr old appy, jumps her, trail rides bareback, ect. However, they are not a show barn.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Have never heard of any sort of English riding that uses a bosal. It is not legal for any type of showing in the English type disciplines so would be hard to find someone to teach you that combination. 

However "English riding" and "Western riding" are such broad terms covering so many different specialties, you might want to focus on what it is you want to learn. Is it jumping? Dressage? Eventing? Hunting? Polo? Equitation? Saddleseat? 

Or do you just want to sit in an English saddle with a bosal? 

Someone suggested taking lessons with a western trainer to learn the proper use of the bosal and taking English lessons to learn English then later trying to combine the two. 

I agree with this.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The owners of the riding school/instructor will only be offended if you start out by saying you ride bitless because you think all bits are evil. If you explain your reasoning - that you ride your own horse bitless so want to up your experience level - then I can't see why they would be upset.
Some riding school horses will happily ride bitless and some encourage it for beginners until they find their natural balance but not all of them do and many wont even have a bridle that you can use
That takes you to the point where you can offer to take your own bitless if they're willing for you to give it a try and since you use a bosal I can see that being the point in English riding barns where you could run into a wall because English riding cues don't really match Western riding cues where the bosal is concerned.
You'd have a less confused horse if you were to try a regular sidepull or something like an English hackamore that has very short shanks or maybe a Zilco flower hackamore because the pressure points on the head are in much the same place as a bit.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Find a barn that has a program you like, and that you enjoy going to and can learn from. What they use on the horse's head is irrelevant. After you've been riding there awhile, you can probably bring up that your horses at home go bitless, and you were wondering if they had any horses you could ride that way so your instructor can evaluate how you're doing. If so, great. If not, no big deal. 

That's a lot different than bringing it up right away. If it's not your horse, you ride it in whatever the owner deems fit.


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