# Is it about the horse or about the liability??



## tecara (Nov 28, 2011)

I have seen a lot of post about plus size riders having trouble finding places to ride at. It makes me wonder, are these barns really concerned about their horses or is it more fear of liability? Many people feel just because a person is heavier they have less coordination and therefor are at greater risk of falling... I personally think it is about the liability. Any good quality Quarter Horse can carry a plus size rider all day long with no issues. And many places now have draft cross breeds who definetly wouldn't have an issue!!! 

What do you think??


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

tecara said:


> I have seen a lot of post about plus size riders having trouble finding places to ride at. It makes me wonder, are these barns really concerned about their horses or is it more fear of liability? Many people feel just because a person is heavier they have less coordination and therefor are at greater risk of falling... I personally think it is about the liability. Any good quality Quarter Horse can carry a plus size rider all day long with no issues. And many places now have draft cross breeds who definetly wouldn't have an issue!!!
> 
> What do you think??


 im wondering if this is partially coming from me..lol.. personally I think its a person by person basis.. they can have rules in place but if they know someone they may let the rules slide.. I just dont know anyone.. and with most things it seems its who you know or how much your willing to pay.. it sounds harsh, but ive learned either I take the people telling me no, or what I cant do, or I find someother way to occupy my time, which as time goes on looks like more of a feasable option for me


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I'd lean towards horses. Liability - not so much. My policy covers anyone who steps foot on my farm. 

For me, I don't have a set limit but it is something I consider when talking to prospective clients/students. I mostly give lessons to kids though I do have a couple of adults. The horses I use for lessons are all aged so their backs & joints are a factor. My younger, could carry about anyone horses are my personal horses that don't get used for lessons regardless of size, I put too much time into training for them to be exposed to rider error.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I think it's horses. These are lesson horses or trail horses that are being ridden sometimes 4 hours a day (sometimes more depending on the barn). I know my dad was not able to ride a horse in the grand canyon because of his weight but they did offer to let him ride in a wagon.

I actually went to a dude ranch and did a trail ride w/ my sister in law, her daughter is heavier then most teens and this place actually had large, big boned horses (2) that were for larger riders so she got to go on the ride as well...


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

I feel like its sugarcoated responses for fat people shouldnt ride..lol sorry if thats not how im supposed to take it.. but thats how it sounds to me


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

gingerscout said:


> I feel like its sugarcoated responses for fat people shouldnt ride..lol sorry if thats not how im supposed to take it.. but thats how it sounds to me


You sound like you are feeling sensitive. I don't think it has anything to do with "fat people shouldn't ride". I think it has more to do with the fact that these riding facilities are using these horses 4 to 6 hours out of the day. Many facilities have way more students then horses so they they are over booking the animals. 

Lesson horses tend to end up with many issues such as arthritis, sore backs and mouths, etc. from the pounding and "abuse" they take from all of the different levels of riders that are on their backs.

Trail barns usually tack the horses up in the AM and send them out on 2 or 3 trails a day. 

They are "prejudice" against heavier riders (not fat). They don't general have a rule that says "If your belly hangs over your belt line you aint riding". It's more like weight limit: 250lbs. That would exclude not only out of shape riders but some pretty sexy hot men from a ride just because they are massive. Not fat.

I ride and show horses and there are many riders on the show circuit that are winning pretty high level classes who are fairly hefty. Us women tend to start packing on the pounds once we hit a certain age and so weight is an issue for us. These people happen to own their own horses, which means these horses are only getting ridden 3-5 days a week at 1-2 hours per ride. That's much different then what a lesson horse sees in a day.

So it's fair to say it is a liability excuse and not an anti-fat people campaign.

But I do understand your sensitivity.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Its the horses. 250lb of novice rider thumping up and down will damage a horses back fairly quickly.

Begginers/novices ride a lot heavier then they actualy are, however a riding school cant tell how novice you are untill after you have ridden and the damage has already been done.

The horses also generaly do at least 4hrs a day 6 days a week.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

I mean I understand where everyone is coming from dont get me wrong.. but Im goign to go out and buy a horse, not knowing what im looking for, and not having much experience anymore just for the chance to ride.. I might end up with a basketcase for all I know.. and when I bust my rear end to learn this stuff ahead of time.. i get ridiculed about my weight.. so If I want to ride I have to find someone dumb enough to sell a horse to a green rider so to speak, or buy one from an auction.. and take my luck so hopefully the green on green rule doesent apply
but.. talking to people gets me nowhere.. I get the tons of larger people ride line.. and people can show me pics all day long, or videos.. but the rule is they can.. just not on any horse anyone owns..lol.. so instead of doing the right thing.. i get to be the idiot who buys a green horse, just to ride, or the sick basket case.. as asking to learn is too much apparantly.. so yes its a sensitive subject to me.. not intending to bash anyone or anything, I mean I do understand, but it sucks


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

gingerscout said:


> but Im goign to go out and buy a horse, not knowing what im looking for, and not having much experience anymore just for the chance to ride.. I might end up with a basketcase for all I know.. and when I bust my rear end to learn this stuff ahead of time.. i get ridiculed about my weight.. so If I want to ride I have to find someone dumb enough to sell a horse to a green rider so to speak, or buy one from an auction.. and take my luck so hopefully the green on green rule doesent apply


That is never the way to buy a horse regardless of your weight or reason. When a green person goes to look at a horse they take someone who is knowledgeable with them. Someone who knows horses and can not only evaluate the horse but your ability to ride. Someone who will train you to ride your horse.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

iridehorses said:


> That is never the way to buy a horse regardless of your weight or reason. When a green person goes to look at a horse they take someone who is knowledgeable with them. Someone who knows horses and can not only evaluate the horse but your ability to ride. Someone who will train you to ride your horse.


 sure I'll take someone.. but If I had someone willing to teach me.. I wouldnt be in this boat.. so I dont really know anyone close to me to take.. unless I drive to another state, and figure out a way to get horse home without trailer.. and Im not paying shipping.. im sorry but people tell me all day long that 240 isnt too heavy to ride.. until I try to find something. then im some cruel jerk who wants to cripple everyones horse.. just no one is willing to prove what they tell me.. thats all im saying


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Agreed with most of the above. I worked 2 years on a trail riding farm, and it is the horses. Some just simply cannot be expected to carry the weight of some people, especially since we tacked up at 5AM, and didn't get the saddles back off until around 6 that evening. Even with rotating horses, doing this six to five days a week is a lot of work. 
However we had larger draft and stocky QH's on the line for the bigger riders, but we still had to be careful about who we booked so that the thinner built horses didn't have to overload. 

Farm liabilities (riding farms) usually cover everyone; because lets face it, people fall off. You can try to avoid it all you want, but someone is gonna hit the ground eventually. However good trail horses are hard to find, the ones needed where you can throw anyone up and they take care of you... so of course you don't want to ruin that horse by overburdening them and breaking them down WAY before they should. It's just good horse sense. 

Horses and riders are matched up on these agendas:

How well we think they'd work together.

How well the horse can carry (comfortably, if possible) the rider.

And what the rider expects from their ride. (We had spunky horses, quiet deadbroke horses, ect. It was a giant puzzle to put together every day)

If you have trouble finding a lesson barn that will accept you; invest in your own horse that can comfortably carry you and take lessons on it. Really, expecting any horse to break its back just because someone wants to play around on it is selfish, and I wouldn't have it. No one over 180 is allowed on my mare; period.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Scout, learning takes LOTS of time and efforts. I know some very good riders, and they still take a trainer to check on particular horse. Simply because you can miss something, or fall in love and just be silly, etc. Also I haven't seen people turned down from the sale only because of the weight.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Maybe there is more then your weight that is a problem. You are only ~45lb heavier then me and my horse can ride double all day long so it isn't necessarily a weight thing.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

iridehorses said:


> Maybe there is more then your weight that is a problem. You are only ~45lb heavier then me and my horse can ride double all day long so it isn't necessarily a weight thing.


 ?? know maybe so I guess.. must be all me.. my fault I cant make the 150 limit at the barn around me.. everytime I did ride I got a lot of compliments from people.. I am aware of my size and all.. but I guess its just me.. must be the only person my size who has trouble finding something.. Im not saying I would ride a pony.. I know I need a size appropriate horse.. but being mocked for wanting to learn really makes me want to keep looking


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

gingerscout said:


> my fault I cant make the 150 limit at the barn around me..


I'm sorry, but I'm having very hard time to believe the limit is 150. Almost every man I know is over that limit, and many females are too. Still noone has problem to take lessons or even lease the horse.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

gingerscout said:


> ?? know maybe so I guess.. must be all me.. my fault I cant make the 150 limit at the barn around me.. everytime I did ride I got a lot of compliments from people.. I am aware of my size and all.. but I guess its just me.. must be the only person my size who has trouble finding something.. Im not saying I would ride a pony.. I know I need a size appropriate horse.. but being mocked for wanting to learn really makes me want to keep looking


Find another barn or join a riding club. I wouldn't want to ride there anyway if they are mocking you for the way you look.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

kitten_Val said:


> I'm sorry, but I'm having very hard time to believe the limit is 150. Almost every man I know is over that limit, and many females are too. Still noone has problem to take lessons or even lease the horse.


Then I couldn't ride there or any of my riding partners. Sorry, I don't buy it.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

ok im done here.. unsubscribing from this thread.. dont need to feel like everyone thinks im some sort of retard all day


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

gingerscout said:


> ok im done here.. unsubscribing from this thread.. dont need to feel like everyone thinks im some sort of retard all day


It appeared to me people here were trying to help you by giving advice... but okay. :?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I think a lot of barns have a weight limit now in a way for liability issues, but not the way you think. 

Check out this 

Jessica Jahiel's HORSE-SENSE Newsletter Archives


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

gingerscout said:


> ok im done here.. unsubscribing from this thread.. dont need to feel like everyone thinks im some sort of retard all day


I think you are taking things very personally and reading things that aren't there.


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

I think it is sad that you feel like there is no where for you to ride.
I think a lease would work for you.
Maybe post and ad in craigslist (again). 
Just because it didn't work the first time, doesn't mean someone with a suitable horse won't be looking to lease now.
It can't hurt to try.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

You need to quit messing around with english arena barns and find a trail riding club, If you see everyone has insulated saddle bags, cause it keeps the beer cold you are in the right place. I know some groups that it is hard pressed to find riders that ARNT over 240lbs. I think anyone under 150 gets eaten at the first rest stop.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Joe4d said:


> You need to quit messing around with english arena barns and find a trail riding club, If you see everyone has insulated saddle bags, cause it keeps the beer cold you are in the right place. I know some groups that it is hard pressed to find riders that ARNT over 240lbs. I think anyone under 150 gets eaten at the first rest stop.


Its true!! Us small riders need to be careful... specially on our tiny horses, I think the predators mistake us for deer.


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## tecara (Nov 28, 2011)

I agree that the majority of men can easily reach 200 and not be fat. My husband is just over 200lbs, doesn't look it though. No one blinks an eye at him riding. I am 5'7" 250 and get those looks. but have never had an issue at a barn riding. Not in this area at least. Took my 6'4", 275lbs son out to a stable and had no issue and he didn't get that look, only thing he got was wow... need a tall horse so your feet don't drag the ground. I feel sorry that there are those who want to ride and can't. Riding has motivated me to get healthier and loss more weight. I say keep looking... I'm sure there is someone out there. My own personal solution was getting my 16.2HH percheron


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

yeh I spent many years working boats, (still do) we always tell the in shape, no body fat muscle dudes, "You know if we end up in a lifeboat we're gonna eat you first cause you wont last no time"


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

farmpony84 said:


> You sound like you are feeling sensitive. I don't think it has anything to do with "fat people shouldn't ride". I think it has more to do with the fact that these riding facilities are using these horses 4 to 6 hours out of the day. Many facilities have way more students then horses so they they are over booking the animals.
> 
> Lesson horses tend to end up with many issues such as arthritis, sore backs and mouths, etc. from the pounding and "abuse" they take from all of the different levels of riders that are on their backs.
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, i am definitely not "fat" by any stretch of the imagination, but i do tip the scales at 275#.
When my girl and i discussed the parameters needed for a horse for me to be both fair to the horse and it's health, as well as me and my needs, we set a few "must have" criteria-
16 hands or larger, stout build, and WIDE bodied, preferably one resembling a bus or tank.
My weight, plus my size (6'4") sort of dictates which horses i can and cannot ride, being fair to the horse.
Yes, i weigh more than many "fat" people, and there are some flat enormous folks out there too that dwarf me.
I suspect that it's the horses that the stables are concerned about.
The horses are their cash cows, and if a horse gets broken, thats less revenue possible.
I also understand the flipside of that coin, too, in that many stables have a couple larger horses for the larger people.
But, i also get the "big people"s perspective too. They want to ride, and well they should at that. But, i suspect the rub comes from not understanding that horses have limits too, and to flop a 500# man on a 14 hand horse just isnt reasonable or safe. The horse may try to toss ol' Tony Bagadonuts, or roll over to get him off, causing harm to both horse and rider, which serves nothing.
Large people are generally quite sensitive about the subject, as they are often the target of ridicule and harassment on the subject. Understandably so, i think. 
If you were the target of hurtful comments and the like, how would you feel?
Now, imagine going through your entire life in that scenario, and NOW how do you feel?
So, to attempt to put some perspective onto this discussion, i would like to think it's primarily about the welfare of the horses, as well as the welfare of the people involved.
We all want to have a good ride, and bring our horse as well as ourselves back in one piece and none the worse for wear.
Or, am i on crack?


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