# Fitting CAIR saddle on downhill horse



## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Can't see pictures but from what I've read the CAIR system will bounce a bit, but is actually comfortable for the horse. So that might be what you are describing. It's why I went with flocked with my Wintec.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)




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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I would not move that saddle back any farther. It's hard to tell with the pad in the way but it should sit about 2-3 finger widths behind the shoulder. You do not want to have your weight to far back.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

poppy1356 said:


> I would not move that saddle back any farther. It's hard to tell with the pad in the way but it should sit about 2-3 finger widths behind the shoulder. You do not want to have your weight to far back.


 i am actually thinking to put it a little bit more forward. this was the first time in this saddle, we have to find out whats the best


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

That fly mask is awesome


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

I see what you mean - the cantle does seem to sit very high, and the pommel low. Try putting a riser pad, or else just a folded piece of cloth under the front of the saddle to lift it, that might make it sit better. *Not a professional saddler*, but I have had to do that with downhill highland ponies before to lift the front of the saddle. That saddle definitely looks like it's going to be pushing your weight forward and out of balance - maybe try a medium-wide gullet just to see whether it sits better. Also, if you loosen your crupper one hole it might sit in a better place.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

minstrel said:


> I see what you mean - the cantle does seem to sit very high, and the pommel low. Try putting a riser pad, or else just a folded piece of cloth under the front of the saddle to lift it, that might make it sit better. *Not a professional saddler*, but I have had to do that with downhill highland ponies before to lift the front of the saddle. That saddle definitely looks like it's going to be pushing your weight forward and out of balance - maybe try a medium-wide gullet just to see whether it sits better. Also, if you loosen your crupper one hole it might sit in a better place.


yes, u think i will try some riser now. In a week my medium wide gullet should arrive. If i loosen the girth, i am afraid it wilk slide forward...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The new gullet should help. My technique for saddle placement is to put it on the back with the cinch/girth barely holding it on, and then walk my horse thru a couple of figure 8s. That gives the saddle a chance to find where gravity, the horse's back & the horse's shoulders want it to be, and that is where I tighten it down. 

Think of two spoons put together. If you have to tie them in place, your spoons don't match. So if that puts the saddle in an odd position - way far back or way forward - then I'd assume the saddle isn't acceptable for the horse.

May or may not be a good technique. Seems to work for me.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

bsms said:


> The new gullet should help. My technique for saddle placement is to put it on the back with the cinch/girth barely holding it on, and then walk my horse thru a couple of figure 8s. That gives the saddle a chance to find where gravity, the horse's back & the horse's shoulders want it to be, and that is where I tighten it down.
> 
> Think of two spoons put together. If you have to tie them in place, your spoons don't match. So if that puts the saddle in an odd position - way far back or way forward - then I'd assume the saddle isn't acceptable for the horse.
> 
> May or may not be a good technique. Seems to work for me.


Well, the problem is, that she is very thin right behind her front legs, and then becomes her belly very fat, its not that visible in these pivs, its better on pics tken from her front side... So when I tighten the saddle, it goes to a place, where the pressure of girth is smaller-to forward... I use a crupper with all saddles.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

I dont want to end up like this 





It never happened to me, but could have. Few times the saddle slid very forwar d(previous one)


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

If your saddle is placed properly and the girth is adjusted properly that will not happen. Your pony is not that downhill. I see no problem with where the girth is sitting. Fold up a small towel and put it under the front. Cheap easy way to raise the front.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

poppy1356 said:


> If your saddle is placed properly and the girth is adjusted properly that will not happen. Your pony is not that downhill. I see no problem with where the girth is sitting. Fold up a small towel and put it under the front. Cheap easy way to raise the front.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But the only problem is not that she is downhill, but that she is a lot thinner right behind front legs and then comes huge belly, so the saddle slide to a place, where she is thinner....
It's an older photo, but it is visible here. She is narrow in shoulders and has huuuuge belly.....









OK, I will try to find some old piece of foam material or old pad and put it underneath until I get the smaller gullet. thx


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Yes I'm thinking the saddle just isn't fitting right. If you look in my barn at my photos my Lizzy has a much larger belly but she's an Arab so she's very narrow and my girth is never tight and my saddle doesn't move anywhere. Maybe where the saddle moves is where it should sit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

I will probalby try it without the crupper tomorrow, i put it on there just in case, every saddle before was sliding... I will try a hort trail ride without it and see where it goes...


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Like I said, if you loosen the crupper a few holes (not the girth), so that when the saddle is in the right place it is a little loose, then it stops the saddle slipping forward but doesn't interfere with the fit. It's not ideal to need a crupper, but it's not necessarily a sign of *bad* fit if you need one, just that the saddle wouldn't fit without it. Get a saddler if you're unsure - but the riser and a looser crupper will help in the meantime.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

Today i tried riding without a crupper. The saddle was imo toi firward, but as it wasnt on the neck, i didnt re-tack it. But after we tried canter, the saddle went too much forward... I have a thick sheepskin underneath now ( as the gullet is wide) and tomorrow i will try to put something only under the front part. And i shall see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

Anyway, i will not have this gullet in the saddle for long, i should have a narrower one at home on friday. I will only then make some definitive solutions... I guess when i have a narrower gullet, the pommel will be a bit higher.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

Wintec makes a pad for that exact problem (and a few others) get the kind with the padding up in the wither area, it should level the saddle right out for you!

Wintec Comfort Saddle Pad - Cushions & Wedges from SmartPak Equine

Your pony is adorable, and I would stick with the crupper, ponies are known for needing them, especially with a lighter, synthetic saddle.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

One day it is soo, another day another way.... I am getting mad 

First picture is after long trail ride...









Second one another day, I put my beginner friend to ride her a while, then I cantered with her a few circles, and then she was cooling her down in walk....









And third day, just a little bit of w,t,c... again with a beginner friend riding her.... 









I think I set the girth well the last day, but I will be sure next time, i ill go on some huge trail.... It was soooo hot these days, I really didnt want to ride


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

With that much padding, every saddle I own would slip somewhere. You need some padding in the front until you change the gullet...but that is about an 8-10 inch wide pad to fill in the difference between your saddle and the horse's shoulders. The riser pad NeuroticMare suggested has maybe an extra 0.5" of padding in the front. It doesn't take much.

If it takes more than that, you need a different saddle.

You can also try a different material for the saddle blanket you started with. Some of the English-style blankets are slick as snot on a doorknob.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

W


bsms said:


> With that much padding, every saddle I own would slip somewhere. You need some padding in the front until you change the gullet...but that is about an 8-10 inch wide pad to fill in the difference between your saddle and the horse's shoulders. The riser pad NeuroticMare suggested has maybe an extra 0.5" of padding in the front. It doesn't take much.
> 
> If it takes more than that, you need a different saddle.
> 
> You can also try a different material for the saddle blanket you started with. Some of the English-style blankets are slick as snot on a doorknob.


Well its not that much padding, i think  I had to put the sheepskin underneath, since the gullet is too wide...
Maybe I can put an old foam material only under the front part of the saddle? 
I dont really like riding with these in-between-pads, I dont feel the horse under me. When it goes, I ride only with classic thin cotton pad (the full pad of violet on her-it may seem thick, but it is like 1cm thick... The sheep will go away as soon as she gets the right gullet.

I also read about the wintec riser system-putting some risers into the saddle-But unfortunately I cannot find the risers in any shop in czech rep....


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

This is after jumping some small umps


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

I would still say the front of the saddle needs some lift - the pommel still looks low compared to the cantle. But looking much better, so moving in the right direction!


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

yeah, on tuesday I will finally get the right gullet size and a woman from a saddle store will come over to check it out- and give me tips which correction pad to use. I dont like using them, but unfortunately I cannot find a Easy change Riser system anywhere in Czech, so I have no choice...

It really needs more filling into the front part-it puts me too forward and my legs too backwards...


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Not sure if you can get them in Czech, but cair is designed to have foam inserts placed in the panels to alter the fit, like reflocking a flocked saddle. They are bright yellow and called lifts. You can get them shaped for just the front of the saddle, and they will give you the lift you need without extra padding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> Not sure if you can get them in Czech, but cair is designed to have foam inserts placed in the panels to alter the fit, like reflocking a flocked saddle. They are bright yellow and called lifts. You can get them shaped for just the front of the saddle, and they will give you the lift you need without extra padding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's what I said - Easy Change Riser System. I know about it, but I cant get it here in Czech. I wrote to a few shops selling wintec saddles if hey could get me any when shopping the saddles again, but no reply so far  Maybe I could get some harder foam and cut the shape of it myself...


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Sorry, the name only recently changed to easy change riser system, before that they were just lifts! It is certainly possible I make them, our saddle fitter has made some of certain size out of foam for customers. If you could model them off a picture of a front lift that would be pretty close.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Why not just order them online? You don't have to buy them in a shop.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

poppy1356 said:


> Why not just order them online? You don't have to buy them in a shop.


Because I would pay &90 for pads and additional 30$ for shipping... 

I was talking to a saddler from our capital that he might be able to get them done from a special foam whicch is used to mmake correction pads.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Well the only thing I see you paying for over a tack shop is the shipping but if they order it in for you they would most likely charge for a portion of the shipping anyway. And 30 for shipping isn't bad. It is made for your specific problem and the pads with shims in them cost way more than the total 120 anyway. I don't know that having someone special make them is going to save a whole lot of money in the long run.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

poppy1356 said:


> Well the only thing I see you paying for over a tack shop is the shipping but if they order it in for you they would most likely charge for a portion of the shipping anyway. And 30 for shipping isn't bad. It is made for your specific problem and the pads with shims in them cost way more than the total 120 anyway. I don't know that having someone special make them is going to save a whole lot of money in the long run.


I think it will, he will just cut the shape from the material. It won't cost more than $15 or $20... Or I am thinking about getting this anti slip gel pad with higher front part. 
Equiservis - De

Together with the narrower gullet it sould do the job. Anyway, Tueday will do, the saddler comes and gives me hopefully some advice other than custom made saddle...


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Bahaha I had Google translate that and I'm pretty sure they failed. Anyways judging from picture only becareful with any antislip pad. They tend to hold heat more, not letting sweat evaporate. Also my mare hates anti slip pads as they pinch her hair. But your saddler should fix that anyway.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

poppy1356 said:


> Bahaha I had Google translate that and I'm pretty sure they failed. Anyways judging from picture only becareful with any antislip pad. They tend to hold heat more, not letting sweat evaporate. Also my mare hates anti slip pads as they pinch her hair. But your saddler should fix that anyway.


I already used kind of anti slip...ehm..... thin thing  just the antislip material under the saddle pad , it helped me with the previous saddle when mounting-it stopped to turn around. She is OK with it. This pad should have small perspiration holes and can be used also between saddle and pad, not directly onte horse, but loosing its antislip function, of course.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Sometimes with english saddles the type of pad will not help the slipping. For instance, the fleece pads are extremely slippery and the saddle slides all over but a good cotton one usually is fine. I don't have to worry as my horses withers hold the saddle pretty good.


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

poppy1356 said:


> Sometimes with english saddles the type of pad will not help the slipping. For instance, the fleece pads are extremely slippery and the saddle slides all over but a good cotton one usually is fine. I don't have to worry as my horses withers hold the saddle pretty good.


Well her whithers do not, but I just hope with the right gullet and the right ballance the slipping will be reduced to minimum....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*saddle fitting*

That looks like a big saddle on a small pony
What size saddle?
What size pony?

A friend of mine had similar problems with the saddle tilting forward and eventually had the CAIR panels replaced with flock ones by a saddler that came out and did a fitting.
All good now

If your pony is not a conventional shape then quite often these 'off the peg' saddles do not work for them


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

jaydee said:


> That looks like a big saddle on a small pony
> What size saddle?
> What size pony?
> 
> ...


135 cm tall pony, 17" seat... looks huge becaue it is dressage saddle  But she is going quite relaxed on it  She starts to twitch while tacking up when theres something wrong. But she stays easily with this one.

Just that the jumping in that long stirrups.. not a good idea


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

copared to previous saddles (3 types)
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525613_2909897672869_1269327919_n.jpg -is was fitting her, but was hurting my intimate areas..


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*size saddle*

I've worked out I think correctly that makes your pony 13.2 and for me that makes a 17 inch saddle far too big for her - which is how it looks to me and why its tilting forward and generally not a good fit
I would suggest you ask a saddler to come out and fit a saddle that suits both her and you. It will be worth it in the long term as looked after properly it will last you for a long time


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## shanoona (Oct 29, 2009)

But I was told by a few triners to get a bigger saddle. Because according to them, according to me, when i think about it, and accoding to how the mare isgoing, better to have a saddle inch bigger, but fitting, and allowing me to sit well and not to disturb her on her back. Than to have a smaller saddle, giving my weight on smaller area and not allowing me to sit properly, disturbing her all the time etc... I must say she is going very wwell in 17" saddles. I tried 17,5" and that was already pinching her too back backwards in her spine, but 17" works well for her...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*saddle fitting*



shanoona said:


> But I was told by a few triners to get a bigger saddle. Because according to them, according to me, when i think about it, and accoding to how the mare isgoing, better to have a saddle inch bigger, but fitting, and allowing me to sit well and not to disturb her on her back. Than to have a smaller saddle, giving my weight on smaller area and not allowing me to sit properly, disturbing her all the time etc... I must say she is going very wwell in 17" saddles. I tried 17,5" and that was already pinching her too back backwards in her spine, but 17" works well for her...


 A lot depends on your height too
I ride 15.2's that are probably also bigger built than your pony in 16.5 inch saddles but I am only 5ft 3
The man I used to work for was 6ft 2 and rode a 16.3 horse in a 17.5 inch saddle
Saddles also have width fittings
If your saddle is sliding so much that it needs something to keep it still then something is wrong somewhere


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## tlfc (Aug 8, 2012)

You might also try an anatomical girth; that is what I had to do with my Morgan mare who has a big belly (and I had the saddle fitter adjust the saddle to fit her).


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