# ESMA - 'Egyptian Society for Mercy to Animals'



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I have never heard of this group. In fact , I would be curious as to what they are doing. I know nothing about the Koran and what is written about the treatment of animals. In fact, when life is hard on humans, and Egypt has many very poor people, it gets even harder on animals. Please share what ever you can about this group.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

As much as it upsets me to see photos like that, tinyliny hit the nail on the head. When someone is starving, and his entire family is starving, the state of his horses is the last thing on his mind. Unlike in North America where we starve and abuse animals for the demented fun of it, most animals in countries like this are not being deliberately mistreated - if there is barely enough money to even feed your family, there certainly isn't any to feed the horses.

I saw a lot of this in Cuba and it broke my heart, but what are people supposed to do? I went on one trail ride that had horses in very decent condition compared to the rest of what I saw but pretty lean by our standards. I gave the man quite a bit of extra money to help feed his horses, as it was obvious he cared desperately about them.

I am all for prosecuting people who are abusive, but starvation in these countries is felt JUST as deeply by the human population as it is by the horses. These aren't 400 pound land whales who cram chocolate in their face while Bessie slowly starves to death. These people are just as thin and sickly as the horses they own. Anytime I saw a well off horse in Cuba, it had a well off owner. Anytime I saw a sickly thin horse, it had a sickly thin owner. It's just the way of life in 2nd and 3rd world countries.

:-(


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Agree with MM. When the people aren't starving, their animals won't be starving.

Most of them rely on their animals for their livelihood, so they're not intentionally starving them. There's only so much money and food to go around in 3rd world nations.

I agree that it's a tragedy, but it's a tragedy for both the humans and animals who have to endure that life.


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

Uhhhh, how on earth do they have energy to stand let alone carry a rider? I see the extra padding under their saddles. It is extremely unfortunate. Those horses are "dead" while standing. :-(


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

I just looked at more of the photos on the website and I find it horrific! Those horses are worked to death! Starved....Yet there are more babies on the ground from starving mothers! I do not pity the people!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Are you serious? You don't have any pity for people forced to eek out a horrific and terrible existence, people who never get enough to eat, children who are ALWAYS hungry? You think the welfare and wellbeing of an animal is more concerning then the welfare and wellbeing of a human life?

I do not think humans are all that high and mighty, but EQUAL levels of concern are a minimum at least. It is revolting that you can feel sorry for the animals, and actually believe that somehow the people deserve what happens to them.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Try reading the News & Events and educating yourself a bit. The Egyptian economy and tourism sector in particular has taken a massive hit - these people are desperate for money to feed their families. When it comes down to your horse or your children starving, who do you think is going to win?

The ESMA does not judge. It is there to help, encourage and educate. If only judgmental people could do the same.

From the website:

I arrived at Sondos Stables at 11 AM, and we set up our booth and prepared for distribution. Within minutes there were over 20 horse owners with their horses lined up to receive rations. The remaining of the looted sacks (10 sacks) finished within the first 30 minutes of distribution, and had it not been for the generous 26 sacks that the locals gathered, donated, and prepared, we would have had a serious shortage.


We managed to distribute almost 300 meals for the animals, and had to turn dozens of horses away as the food supply had depleted in under 4 hours. We are in dire need of funding for food! If it weren’t for the locals donations and tremendous effort with preparing and distributing the food, today would have not been possible, and I am unsure how many of the animals, horses particularly, would have made it through the night. It was truly inspirational to see their appreciation, organization, hard work, and their willingness to have an improved and sustainable system.


To achieve this system, I believe we need to continue to provide treatments and feeds until the economy and the tourism industry start to recover. Once life starts to return to normal in terms of income for the locals, we should start to *gradually* withdraw the* emergency aid*, as they become capable of providing for their families and animals on their own.


In the mean time it is important to start an educational campaign teaching the locals the proper care for their animals, and to emphasize the relation between a healthy animal and more income. The animals are still very emaciated, and many still have wounds that need to continue being treated. Once the large organizations are fully committed to manage and handle this hige feeding and treatment operation, ESMA can start the education campaign with the leadership of Beth Sartain.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I'm close to tears reading this. I don't understand how people can be so ignorant and judgmental as to realize life over there is NOTHING like here. Sorry for the multiple posts, but this is a HORRIFIC situation that the owners are desperate to do something about and HAVE NO MONEY. Are we so arrogant and self assuming in our lives that we believe everyone has a humane society or an animal control officer or SOME way to feed an animal?

Just do yourself a favor and read all the information under the Equine Field Reports headings. 

News & events Egyptian Society for Mercy to Animals

More excerpts:

Below are some parts of the conversations with them :


The horses in normal conditions would usually be fed a combination of maize/bran/chaff and barseem (clover).
Horse owners believe the horse population in this area to be around 3000, they estimate about 500 camels.
Most could no longer feed their animals or even their families, their source of income has completely dried up…..
They could also no longer send their children to nursery schools
‘Their statements’ – “Brooke are only stationed in one area, and apparently are there only on a Sunday….they do not mobilise themselves in most of the areas. The horse owners have to go to them. For the last two days they have had ‘no syringes’ (we heard this from many horse owners). All said The Brooke are more inclined to treat donkeys and mules rather than horses. When they do take the horses for treatment at the main hospital premises , the usual decision is to eauthanise them. They claimed that is why they do not like taking them there as they do not believe this drastic decision is neccessary in most cases, just an ‘easier’ solution for them”.
 They claimed that the ‘Government assigned Vet’ was corrupt. They also claimed the ‘Government assigned Vet’ is only supposed to be assigned to any one area for a one year period. The current vet has been in the area for nearly 20 years…..They informed us that he should treat the horses for free, but always asks for money. The same applied for medications; he would sell them medications at exorbitant prices.
Another horse owner told us how he had lost five of his horses to starvation this week alone. They usually feed their horses three times per day in normal circumstances. None of the owners interviewed objected to giving out their names and numbers, and were in fact very eager to vent their frustrations….


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

I never said the people deserved what is happening to them. Why are they still breeding their starving mares? They can't feed them. Those horses are better off dead. Horrific sores and wounds on a walking skeleton.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

goneriding said:


> I do not owe you an explanation. You know nothing about my giving to others be it monetary or of my personal time. It's been nice chatting with you.



No you don't.

This happens to be a HORSE forum and the original post is in the HORSE Articles section...not in a HUMAN world problem section.

Certainly there is hunger everywhere and that involves ALL species of the Equine, Canine, Feline and Human kind. I heard the Canine species are as bad off as the horses...so where is your pity for them MM?

The topic is horses MM so lets not nash teeth at someone who feels for their welfare.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

While I understand this is a horse section, the people, their society, their economy, etc all influences those horses and are very valid topics to discuss in relation to the horses.

Everything that is happening in Egypt right now to the people and the animals is very horrible. I expect its not just equines and canines effected over there - but every living creature. I'm glad to hear there is an organization set up to help some, but I worry it may end up being too little because this is not something they are going to recover from quickly.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I pity all who are starving, I don't pick and choose based on blind assumptions.


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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

I think there is a reading comprehension problem going on. 
I never read where MM doesn't think that it's horrific that the horses are in that condition. She is simply saying that people need to quit blaming the owners. 
They would feed the horses if they could. It's not like they said "I want that new PS3 game, so I'm gonna get that instead of hay". The condition of the horses is directly related to the economic condition of the country and owners. 
When the tourism industry was good, the people were able to keep their animals in decent condition. As awful as the horses look, their owners are taking care of them to the best of their current ability.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Thank you reiningfan, you were much more eloquent then I was. I'm going to hire you as my translator when I get so gosh darn mad I just start spluttering. :lol:


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## reiningfan (Jan 7, 2008)

I get like that too sometimes. Just have to step back and take a deep breath before answering.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

I wasn't going to reply to this but I decided too..
This thread is about HORSES not the people, not the dogs, cats etc if you want to discuss that please feel free to make a thread and not stir up drama!

And thank you Spyder for clearing that up also.

There was a horse feed 06/07/11 and from what I could tell it looks as if a few of the horses have put on SOME condition, still a long way to go but at lest there are some who have put condition on!

They where doing some filming that day and there was an arabian stallion being filmed, here is a picture









and a link to the other pictures from the day
Horse feed 06-07-11 | Facebook


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

You are the one who made it about the people. You don't get to post a topic, bash a bunch of people, and then expect everyone to agree. Yes it IS about the people if you're going to act like this is all their fault and they're not suffering either.

In what world did a forum suddenly become a place where everyone just blindly agrees with any information put forth with absolutely no conscious thought of their own?

What is the purpose of the photo of the stallion? He looks to be in excellent shape.


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## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

Did i write "The people raa raa" no, no I DID NOT! Read my OP correctly and stop assuming it IS about the people, I never wrote for you to take it as if it was, since it's not!

The point of the photo is that THERE ARE horses in good condition, Though I never seemed to understand why they where filming him while it was about the others too? Guess their showing that some are in good condition.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

You can't have one without the other. Life doesn't work that way. My point is that I find it deplorable to not also have sympathy for all other animals AND people in this situation, not just the horses. Everyone is suffering, and nobody is to "blame". It's a horrific situation that is being felt deeply by all involved.


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## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

Again, re-read what i have written!

I have sympathy for all but here i am strictly talking about the horses.

You need to learn not to twist people's words around and make it into something that was never written!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> You can't have one without the other. Life doesn't work that way. My point is that I find it deplorable to not also have sympathy for all other animals AND people in this situation, not just the horses. Everyone is suffering, and nobody is to "blame". It's a horrific situation that is being felt deeply by all involved.


MM get over it.

If you want to talk about third world poverty then start a thread in the general section.

Even here in NA when the economy goes, the care for the animals go as well, it is not limited to one area of the world. I could talk about reason and the social,economic and political background that would lead to this topic YOU want to talk about but it is not appropriate on this thread...so start a different topic and I will,.. assuming that is what you really want to talk about..


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

_*Folks, I think its time to calm down.*_ We can't judge situation based on this pic. We can't judge the owners either. May be indeed that's the best they can do (as life in those countries is very tough), may be not and they just don't care (look at similar horses here in US when owners are just plain ignorant). What is the case here we simply DON'T KNOW, so everyone is just guessing. I agree, if someone wants to discuss situation in 3rd countries, lets start the new thread in "General" section.


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