# Teens and stallions



## Dreamcatcher Arabians

NoviceMom said:


> I'm in need of advise regarding a teen handling and riding a 3 year of stallion, i'm not a horse person. My 14 year old daughter's father recently purchased a stallion for her to ride and care for. Appears he has no immediate plans to geld him until he shows signs of aggression. The USEF does not permit anyone under the age of 18 to show/handle a stallion yet there are no laws in CA to support this. Anyone have any experience to share?


IF the stallion is well trained and handled properly and consistently, there's no reason a 14 yo kid couldn't/shouldn't ride and handle him. Does your ex have a bunch of mares on his property? Or is the stallion the only horse? What about the surrounding neighborhood? What's his horse expertise/experience? Has he handled stallions in the past?

I have had stallions for years and expect them to act like geldings unless they are taken to a mare in season. When asked to give a small child a ride, my stallion is the first horse I pull out to toss them up on, he carries them like Faberge eggs. 

You're correct, she won't be able to show him until she's 18, most likely won't be allowed to ride him on organised trail rides (doesn't matter how old SHE is, they frequently stipulate No Stallions, period), and if a friend rides a mare, she could run into handling issues. 

Unless there is a pressing reason to keep him intact, I'd recommend gelding sooner rather than later.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs

Depends on the horse, depends on the child. Unless there is a very good reason though to keep the stallion intact, then why do it? Stallions are excluded from many activities, often need to live a life of isolation (many stables will not allow them) and can just make life more difficult as a horse owner. 

I own one who was a former breeding stud and gelded at age 7. Even after gelding he needed extra training to be a calm trail horse (wanted to mount mares in heat) and still occasionally displays very studdish attitudes. So unless there is a very good reason to keep him intact, I would agree, geld ASAP.


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## Mulefeather

There's no reason to keep him intact. Why would your ex wait for him to be aggressive and hormonal? 

Honestly, it's more trouble than it's worth for a youth rider to have a stallion, even a nice one. They're not allowed on organized rides or events, no 4-H or Pony Club, very few shows allow them. I just can't see it being fun for her.


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## NoviceMom

Thanks Dreamcatcher Arabians. Ex says he's being trained but not sure to what extent. He's at a boarding facility with a variety of other horses and they have access to miles of trails where organized groups and private parties ride. Its a densely populated horse neighborhood with equestrian facilities close by. He has no real horse experience and has never owned or handled a stallion.


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## NoviceMom

Thanks Mulefeather. I'm told the stallion is "still developing" but once he shows signs of aggression he will be gelded. This seems odd to me too.


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## Judah

While I agree that gelding him is a good idea, I have also seen kids handle stallions often. Any horse can learn bad habits, but the good stallions I know recognize that when they are saddled they are working, and they dont misbehave even when in the presence of mares in season. 

Did he give a reason for not wanting to geld the stallion?


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## mkmurphy81

NoviceMom said:


> Thanks Dreamcatcher Arabians. Ex says he's being trained but not sure to what extent. He's at a boarding facility with a variety of other horses and they have access to miles of trails where organized groups and private parties ride. Its a densely populated horse neighborhood with equestrian facilities close by. *He has no real horse experience and has never owned or handled a stallion.*


No, no, no!

If he has no horse experience, and you seem to have little or no horse experience, is it safe to assume your 14 year old has little horse experience? If that's the case, NO! Geld the horse, get a good trainer for him (sounds like he may have one), and give the 14 year old experience on an older, well-broke schoolmaster horse. 

It sounds cool for a kid to say, "oh yeah, I ride a stallion," once or twice. After that, kids only care about what they can DO on a horse. An older broke mare or gelding ends up being a lot more fun to ride and care for on a daily basis. Not to mention safer.

Stallions have their place. Without them the rest of us wouldn't have any horses. However, the stallions and the people are happier when only highly experienced horsepeople handle the stallions.


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## NoviceMom

mkmurphy81 said:


> No, no, no!
> 
> If he has no horse experience, and you seem to have little or no horse experience, is it safe to assume your 14 year old has little horse experience? If that's the case, NO! Geld the horse, get a good trainer for him (sounds like he may have one), and give the 14 year old experience on an older, well-broke schoolmaster horse.
> 
> It sounds cool for a kid to say, "oh yeah, I ride a stallion," once or twice. After that, kids only care about what they can DO on a horse. An older broke mare or gelding ends up being a lot more fun to ride and care for on a daily basis. Not to mention safer.
> 
> Stallions have their place. Without them the rest of us wouldn't have any horses. However, the stallions and the people are happier when only highly experienced horsepeople handle the stallions.


Thanks! Our daughter has been riding for a few years on lesson horses. I purchased a 9 year old mare for her earlier this year and have been learning a little along the way. 

I'm not clear on why one wouldn't geld a 3 year old stallion and this seems to be a sticking point. She was thrown once when he spooked on the trail. Just hoping to gather more facts to force the issue on gelding.


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## NoviceMom

Judah said:


> While I agree that gelding him is a good idea, I have also seen kids handle stallions often. Any horse can learn bad habits, but the good stallions I know recognize that when they are saddled they are working, and they dont misbehave even when in the presence of mares in season.
> 
> Did he give a reason for not wanting to geld the stallion?


Thanks! I was told he's still developing and once he shows signs of aggression it will be handled. Bit concerned about that.


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## Roman

A stallion doesn't have to develop or become aggressive to need to geld it. What's so special about this stallion? Has he done anything spectacular in the show world? Fancy bloodlines? No? GELD IT. I'd talk to him about it and maybe get the person that's training the stallion to share his opinion.


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## jaydee

Sometimes that 'showing aggression' thing comes on suddenly and disastrously out of one tiny mistake or sloppy handling - something that you maybe have always done with no problems and then at that one moment in time something clicks and you can't turn the clock back.
I worked in a riding school where they had a jumping pony stallion that was as quiet and easy as a gelding, staying happily in his own paddock - then one spring several mares in the area, some belonging to the school produced foals - he'd been jumping out over a 4 ft fence to 'do the deeds' and then jumping back in.
Your husband is not coming over as a very knowledgeable horse person - if the horse isn't worth keeping as a stallion then get him cut now so he can lead a more normal social life as well as putting your mind at rest


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## Avna

"Once he shows signs of aggression"? That is BIG red flag. The first time a stallion shows signs of aggression could be the time he decides to pick a human up and shake him like a rag doll. Is that what your ex wants? Has he ever even seen what an aggressive stallion is capable of? Especially if he's been handled by inexperienced people who won't notice nor know how to handle the hints of what might be coming.


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## Greenmeadows

I am completely inexperienced with handling stallions, but I know a fellow who had a horse that was gelded way too late. That horse was exceedingly spooky and definitely not appropriate for anyone who didn't have tons of experience. He assumed it was due to the timing of gelding. I would say to encourage your daughter to sell the stallion and get a properly gelded, calm horse that is truly beginner safe.


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## Mulefeather

I have a sneaking suspicion your ex is not fond of other male creatures losing their "man parts" unless absolutely necessary - something he needs to get over VERY quickly in the horse world. It's not like an unneutered dog who pees in the house or goes roaming - those are just annoying things, usually unsafe for the animal. 

For a horse, a stallion thinking with his "second head" can hurt or kill a human. You don't want the day that he "shows aggression" to be a day when he bites, kicks, or attacks someone - namely your daughter.

If your husband is keeping the stallion on his property, he also needs to know that his insurance rates are going to go up, and he will likely be required by law to build fences of a certain height, possibly reinforced with hot wire.


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## Avna

Because I have a bad cold and am stuck here I read a loooong thread on the Other Board on this subject, which I will summarize:

Stallions are the most dangerous when they are young and foolish, when they are untrained, and when they have been mishandled by inexperienced people. It sounds like the OP has described that exact situation as a distinct probability. 

Those posting _with a lot of experience with many young stallions_ all agreed that you treat them like any other horse _except_ you cannot ever take them for granted. You must be alert to their potential issues at all times. One of the most usual 'potential issues' which don't arise nearly so often with geldings and mares is their natural tendency to rear and strike with their front feet. Another is their natural tendency to bite, and to hang on when they bite. 

I'm just not seeing any up side to keeping a stallion intact in this situation. Not ANY.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Let me expand on some points that several have made about stallions. 

A stallion WILL assert dominance, usually sooner rather than later. If he chooses to do it with his front legs, sweeping your daughter underneath him and kneeling on her, he can easily kill her. I have put a horse down for doing the sweep to my husband. It's not nice, it's not pretty and it's very dangerous. 

My family owned a very expensive racehorse stallion, barn name Piranha, who picked up my brother in law (a veterinarian) by the shoulder and threw him like a rag doll. Ended his carreer, destroyed his shoulder. These are not animals for the unwary. I always say, "Trust them with your life but never turn your back on them.". Your Ex or DH or whatever, has no business with a stallion and whoever sold it to him shouldn't have done it. 

Finding boarding for a stallion can be quite difficult and it's frequently quite a bit more expensive. Same for training. 

I love my stallion, and I wouldn't trade him for the world, but he's an exercise in logistics. Do I have a baby colt that he can babysit? Do I have a pregnant mare or 2 to keep him company? Will the ride I want to go on allow a stallion? Can I ride him in the Christmas parade, or do they only allow geldings? Will people not want to ride with me because I'm riding a stallion? I had, note the past tense, a friend who flatly refused to ride out on trail with me if I rode "That STALLION". Why? Because she didn't want him to try to mount HER on the trail (she rides a gelding). It got silly enough that I finally dropped her as a friend. They, and you, can have a lonely time of it. 

And God forfend he DOES decide to grow his ears long and act the fool, then he and your daughter will be blamed, not the father for buying an inappropriate horse. The fact he spooked and tossed her on the trail doesn't worry me too much, any horse can do that. What would worry me is, was she able to hold on to him? A stallion who is riderless and out running loose is a liability nightmare. SUE CITY.


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## Knave

Here are my two cents. The 3-year old colt I ride I'm pretty sure is a rig. He's gotten a very nice handle on him and is very sweet. Enough so that I let my daughter ride him in the yard and rarely in the arena. He's great, however I cannot let her ride him where other horses are around or to gymkhana or show. 

This is because she can't read a horse well enough. He gets studdy and I deal with that, but she wouldn't be able to see the wreck happening so to speak. I will never be able to trust her with him. Even if he were perfect the way mares respond to him is also a problem that a child could not read.


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## NoviceMom

Thanks for all the feedback. Seems like there really is no good reason to wait on gelding. He denied access to his veterinary records today, big red flag!


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## tinyliny

NoviceMom said:


> Thanks! I was told he's still developing and once he shows signs of aggression it will be handled. Bit concerned about that.



that reminds me of my veteranrian, regarding my male kitten and fixing him; he said once he starts spraying on the furniture ( a male marking behavior) nuetering him will not stop it, as it becomes a LEARNED behavior. 

could it not be that aggression, originally driven by hormones, might not become a learned behavior even after gelding? would one want to wait and see?

I think most males horses are gelding as yearlings, and they develop just fine.


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## HombresArablegacy

NoviceMom said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. Seems like there really is no good reason to wait on gelding. He denied access to his veterinary records today, big red flag!


Wow! Sounds like your ex is a real jerk. Here's what I would do IMMEDIATELY: put your foot down and forbid your daughter from having ANY contact or interaction with that stallion until he's been gelded, and for a good 6 weeks after he's gelded.

If her father refuses to geld him, well that's just too bad for your daughter. She can ride her mare to her hearts content. Her safety comes first. Period. This is a trainwreck waiting to happen.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Yep, ditto what Hombre said. If there's no good reason to not geld and he won't let you have access to the vet records, something is rotten in Denmark.


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## paintedpastures

Soulds like your ex is thinkin with his wrong brain:eek_color: He is the inexperienced one that shouldn't handle/own the horse if he thinks this type of situation is ok:-(. For your Daughters well being plus the other horses & riders around he needs a wake up call!!Horse needs to be gelded no question:icon_frown:


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## Smilie

Yes, a stallion can be mannered, become well trained, but that is not the point here.
This is a three year old colt, and unless owned by someone that is in the 'breeding ' business , is better off gelded, for everyone
Yes, youth can ride stallions, and even show them, in stock horse venues, anyway, but NOT IN YOUTH classes. They can show them open
There remains the fact, that should an injury result, with the rider loosing control of that stallion, even around in heat mares, the liability is strictly on the stallion owner/rider
Your daughter is not a kid, growing up in a horse breeding/raising operation, where a stallion , used to promote that business, is going to first be mannered and trained to the point,that an experienced youth could ride him, but he is a green horse, bought for a youth, with the added complications of hormones. Just riding a three year old green hrose, is enough of a chellenge for a fairly green rider, who is also a youth
HAVE HIM GELDED, now !
When I was about 15, and horse crazy, and had made do with the draft horses we used on the farm, to learn to ride on, my step father gave in to my begging for a saddle horse, because my non horsey mother wanted me rewarded for all my hard work in those tobacco fields
My step dad used hroses, but was not a horseman-there is a difference! He was practical , though, and since our work horses were mares, seemed very logical to then buy me a stallion. This stallion was cheap, because he proved to be spoiled.
He reared, went over backwards, tried to run me into things, bolted-you name it.
Yes, I was young, fearless and also lucky, as I could have been killed or paralyzed.
Once I grew up, started to raise horses, I did raise and show several stallions, and even let my older son, show one of them, open, when he was about 15, But by then my son had been starting horses with me, and \i had shown that stallion enough first, that he was 'broke and mannered'
There is only one reason to keep a horse a stallion, and that is if you are breeding horses, and that stallion has superior blood lines, and has proven himself, or at least is in the hands of someone able to prove that stallion. This takes either the experience, or the money to have professional train, ride and show that horse.
That does not appear to be the situation in your case, so make that call tot he vet!


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## Smilie

I used to geld all my colts as yearlings, unless they were stallion prospects. I also gelded older stallions, as it was easier, when forming breeding program, to keep some good daughters, then geld their sire after using him for several years, and get a new stud prospect, un related to those daughters
Yes, it took a year or so, before I could turn them out in a mixed herd, but they rode just fine, but they had been mannered as stallions, never allowed to form bad habits, even in the presence of hormones, and thus were 'more broke' then most geldings, as they have that 'extra' training that allowed them to be shown as stallions, thus made exceptional youth and non pro horses.
That is not the case here. 
Insist that this horse be gelded, or sold.


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