# What can't I keep cantering



## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

So a little back story--I started riding in March. I go to two barns so two different trainers. This video is barn A. At barn B I can canter around the arena a couple times--really until I tell the horse (so far I've been riding two horses at barn B) to come to a downward transition or halt altogether. I only ride one horse at barn A. Well rather a haflinger pony. We just started getting into the canter and for the life of me I cannot get him to keep going. He canters a few strides and stops abruptly. 

This was my first lesson cantering on him but thereafter, my trainer watched my hands to make sure I wasn't pulling at his mouth and she said my hands were just fine. I "think" I put leg on him but evidently it doesn't seem like it's enough because he stops so quick and sudden. 


I do not have this issue at barn B AT ALL. If I feel the horses (both Arabian horses) slow down at the canter a little leg keeps them both going. 

Do you guys see what I am doing wrong? I get so frustrated with myself and discouraged when I leave barn A. I'm very hard on myself clearly. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A_2UBNvz6Hg



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cTkdECVzKuo


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Also I know I was on the incorrect lead on one video  

I struggled asking for it at first because I felt every time my outside leg goes behind the girth i lost my stirrup. Hot mess.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

what i see is that you seem to be gripping with your knee. you can almost always tell this by watching your lower legs swing back and forth. so, you weight is stopping at the knee, which becomes a pivot point, making YOU swing back and forth above the pony. he feels it and knows that you are not stable. he then stops, either because he is taking good care of you, or , more likely, he knows that you are not stable enough to drive him forward from behind, and thus he CAN get away with stopping.

your whole demeanor looks really stiff and locked up on this pony. I wonder if you sat the trot, and asked for the canter and stayed seated if it would help. you could take one hand off and hang onto the saddle to help you feel more solid.

and, "tighten up your leg" is an odd thing to hear. I think she means for you to get more of your weight down into the stirrup and past it.


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks for your response! Yeah she kept saying to tighten my leg which made think "stiffen the leg" to prevent it from swaying. I did feel stiff for sure. Ill try to focus more on putting weight in my heels. 

I only struggle with cantering on him for whatever reason. Barn B made me canter like the wind. I'll have my trainer record it. I actually posted in another thread about that experience and how great and lose yet secure I felt. Those **** heels of mine can't relax


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it looks a bit like the saddle or horse or whatever, have your seat such that you leg gets out in front of you. this can be exascerbated if the saddle is pommel high, or the twist is too wide for YOU pelvis. makes it hard to not fall behind the motion.


I suggest asking for the canter from the walk, sitting. and, carry a crop for a bit. 

a mental image that helps me at the canter, (and I am pretty sucky at canter), is to think of riding only the back legs of the horse, as if it were an Ostriche you were riding. this really gets you thinking of driving the hind end up, and staying DOWN in your saddle.

secondly, as soon as you get that wiley pony cantering, ask for MORE . shush at her loudly to get her/him to think of really going forward.

not only does your seat transmnit to him lack of stability, but the more this becomes an issue, the less you really ARE mentally committed to cantering. horses are absolute MASTERS at discerning if you are "trying" to canter, or "CANTERING!"


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree for you to try to pick up the canter from either a walk or even a standstill, so you learn to sit down and drive that horse up into that canter . Make sure you have your legs under you, some weight in your stirrups, so you are not coming up out of that saddle, as you now are doing, at the canter.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

This horse is giving itself a break. Likely because you aren't secure in the saddle to give a clear signal for the horse to keep going regardless of the fact the horse rather not. (You aren't going anything wrong, you're newer to this).

Tighten your leg? No the complete opposite. Stretch your legs down, let them hang. Don't tighten anything except your core and remember to sit up tall. 

This horse seems to be taking advantage that you aren't sure about cantering. I saw this especially in the first video when the horse was going very fast into the canter. 

Though a halfhalt is way more than pulling on the rein.. but evenso the horse shouldn't ignore you.


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Thanks. U all have provided wonderful feedback. Perhaps I am getting miscommunication from barn A trainer. When she says tighten my leg I stiffen them. Maybe I just misunderstood what she wanted me to do because I def remember making a conscious effort from making them stiff from swaying! Gah. 

Trainer B tells me she personally prefers to do a half seat where she is hovering over the saddle when cantering. I haven't tried it yet but she says it feels somewhat like her bottom is hovering in a circular like motion while cantering. I've also heard of sitting and sliding, scooping, or "riding" the saddle. Which do you guys do? 


I'll have to get a recording of me at barn B. I canter a hundred times better on those horses with that trainer. As in my other post where I went on to share my excitement about the feeling of cantering so smooth, my trainer told me she was so impressed with me that day as it was the first time seeing me canter. She said I "scooped" really well.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Why have you removed the videos? All I get when I click the links is "video removed by user"


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I just let my hips move with the horse, if I feel them slow down past what I want, I slightly push forward with my seat then go back to following


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

don't be discouraged . Cantering can be hard for some folks.

I used to do it well, but as my back has become stiffer, i end up bumping around and popping out of the saddle more.


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## semper (Apr 29, 2016)

Some great advice here.












Am I odd in thinking that at this stage of your riding career, you are maybe getting a little too bogged down in details? I am not familiar with "barn riding" but it seems to me that at this stage I would encourage a rider to get out and about up hill and down dale so to speak. It will develop more of an independant seat in you as you are constantly having to re adjust your balance. Your muscles soon take over and do it for you without conscious thought. That will then make flat work easier to begin mastering. Quite honestly, if your ride is being a lazy blighter, being outside and finding a nice hill to "burn up" will give him a new lease in life and enthusiasm for his job. I am sorry this is all one paragraph and probably hard to read because of this but the curser will not go off this line when I hit the enter key. It is only this site and only this post, refreshing did not help.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Can't resist...since I can't see the videos I will comment:

What you are doing wrong is riding a Haflinger versus Arabs! LOL. Much harder to make a draft pony canter than an Arabian or Thoroughbred. When I ride my Arabs, they want to canter. I don't have to ask them to speed up, only to slow down. 
Once I rode a huge Belgian draft cross. Trying to get that horse to canter and stay cantering was impossible, and I'm a very experienced rider. I think it might have taken a cattle prod to keep him going.
Round and wide draft types are difficult to keep moving. Congratulate yourself for trying, and expect that it will be much harder to maintain a forward gait during your lessons on the Haflinger. Taking lessons on such different types of horses will teach you some very different things, and make you a more well rounded rider.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I did not try the videos.

The first fix, as mentioned by Tinyliny, is your own seat. Lunge lessons, in that you ride the horse without stirrups and reins while your trainer has control of and keeps the horse going through a lunge line, are an excellent way to develop an 'independent' seat-basically meaning that you are able to ride the gait correctly and you learn how to balance with the horse.
Trail riding does help as well, trotting and cantering through many different kinds of terrain, up and down and flat. However, I am a previously chronic knee gripper and I can tell you that I rode in all kinds of rough terrain, but my seat and balance were never excellent until I had lunge lessons. I believe it took at least 4, if not more lunge lessons for me to finally be able to canter without bouncing all over the place or holding onto anything. I had the same problem as you in that I could not keep the horse going, we would get three strides and she would stop. Me finding my balance was ultimately the key in fixing the problem.

Secondly, you will find, as you have already stated and Gottatrot mentioned, that different horses require different riding. There is a TB I ride once a week who, at any gait including extended trot and canter, I can get to slightly change direction and path just by shifting my weight and looking where I want to go. He never needs to be prodded to keep going. My own mare, QH/Mustang, is in the middle of the scale. She requires reminders to keep her moving and constant micro management. She's a horse you really have to ride. I spent a long time getting her soft to the leg in that she moves forward with a gentle cue, and she still needs a tune up every now and then. With horses that aren't so 'forward-inclined', you will find that timing is everything. You will learn to feel when that horse is about to slow down or break gait and cue before he does.

At the end of the day, you can break riding the canter down to two simple things:
1) Balance and Seat
2) Timing

In that order.

Good luck! There is hope!


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

I deleted the videos. Sorry.

Should my bottom not be lifted at all during the canter? I always thought it was okay to sit and scoop henceforth my butt will be off the saddle for a second. 

Yeah I do feel like the haflinger needs more aides to keep going. Even when we worked on collection it was hard to make him more forward. I kept having to use my leg so she gave me a crop and that alone in my hand (I didn't even use it) made him much more forward. Whereas the Arabian is almost effortless to collect or get into a canter. 

my biggest issues is being able to leave back and keep my heels down in the stirrup. 

I DEFINITELY am an overthinker !! Blah  

Thanks tiny--I know it'll take years for me to be an exceptional rider, I'm just so critical of myself at times. 

You guys have been awesome!


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Skyseternalangel said:


> I just let my hips move with the horse, if I feel them slow down past what I want, I slightly push forward with my seat then go back to following


I will make s conscientious effort to let my hips move forward. At Barn B--on the Arabian horse--I def feel me sitting and sliding or my hips moving forward with the horse, however I still lift off the saddle a bit.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Zeidant2 said:


> ...I always thought it was okay to sit and scoop henceforth my butt will be off the saddle for a second...


I haven't seen the videos, but to the extent your rumps moves more than the saddle, you are not in synch with the horse's movement. FWIW, here is an old thread, posts 9 & 11 specifically:

http://www.horseforum.com/english-riding/riding-canter-half-seat-120340/


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Zeidant2 said:


> I deleted the videos. Sorry.
> 
> Should my bottom not be lifted at all during the canter? I always thought it was okay to sit and scoop henceforth my butt will be off the saddle for a second.
> 
> ...





Zeidant2 said:


> I will make s conscientious effort to let my hips move forward. At Barn B--on the Arabian horse--I def feel me sitting and sliding or my hips moving forward with the horse, however I still lift off the saddle a bit.


The MORE relaxed you are, and thinking (let my legs HANG down, and be on only when I need to cue) you will ride it better.

Engage your core by sitting up tall and let everything else hang.

Literally don't even be concerned about your heels... just focus on relaxing your ENTIRE leg. Let the stirrup cradle your foot, not brace against your foot.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

Zeidant2 said:


> I deleted the videos. Sorry.
> 
> Should my bottom not be lifted at all during the canter? I always thought it was okay to sit and scoop henceforth my butt will be off the saddle for a second.
> 
> ...


Perhaps the idea of “scooping” has confused you. Rather than think of scooping, think of sitting in a canoe facing oncoming swells. Your bottom will rise as the canoe is lifted to the top of one swell. It will, then, slide downward and forward only to rise again on the next swell. At no time will your bottom rise from the seat. The same goes for your bottom resting on the saddle. It should follow the flowing motion of the saddle without ever rising from it.

If you must use your leg to maintain impulsion, do so in a squeeze and release fashion.. Squeezing with constant pressure blocks gravity from doing its job of giving your body stability. In addition, it often causes riders to lift their heels. The constant squeezing of a rider’s legs will, also, inhibit the movement of the horse’s muscles.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

I looked at the video before you deleted them. 

Your rear end should not come out of the seat at the canter. 

Two things I noticed, one the horse was not collected which will make the canter harder to sit and the saddle will tend to slap you in the butt. 

Second your upper body, the connection between your pelvis and your spine was stiff. If that is stiff, your center of gravity (typically an inch or so below your belly button) won't be able to stay with the horse (your upper body fights against the movement) so what you do with your legs won't matter a whole lot (that comes later). 

I think of that connection point, working like a hinge whereby the bottom half moves with the horse while the top half stays centered, kind of floating independently.

Kind of like a hula dancer. Watch how their hips can move independent of their upper bodies


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Lots of work to do  I shouldn't be too hard considering only began in March but I get so upset at myself. I absolutely love it. It's such a serenity and a wonderful getaway from stress and reality. 

Does sitting the trot help master the canter?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Zeidant2 said:


> Lots of work to do  I shouldn't be too hard considering only began in March but I get so upset at myself. I absolutely love it. It's such a serenity and a wonderful getaway from stress and reality.
> 
> Does sitting the trot help master the canter?


yes and no. Different movement of your seat bones in the sitting trot versus the canter.

The most important thing to do, is work on separating your core from your back and your pelvis. So that everything but your core is nice and relaxed.

This can be learned in sitting trot, but it is very difficult not to bounce around all over the place. My advice is to keep your legs underneath you, don't brace against them or throw them infront. Change from posting trot to a sitting ONLY for half a stride. How you do this is "sit" an extra beat, like you would if you chance diagonals.

Following me so far?

Work on this and slowly sit for more beats, but don't allow yourself to tense up. If you have to choose between stiff body/engaged core and totally relaxed body? Go with the totally relaxed body.


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Barn B trainer makes me do a lot of work without stirrups to help me gain that feel of an extended leg with my heels down. So she'll hve me do work without stirrups then have me pick them up again and tells me to think as if I don't have stirrups at all. It helps to remind me not to brace against the stirrups. 

You say engage my core--should I focus on tightening my ab muscles in a way you would to show off a six pack? Ha! Kind of tuck in my belly button and tighten. That's what I think/do when I want to strengthen my core. Is this the same concept you do when engaging core while riding?

It may be best to part ways with barn A for it seems like I am getting not so great instructions as Barn B therefor causing a bit confusion. 

If I can leave reality and go far away for a year (with my 4 year old alongside!) and ride every day--I would. =|


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Zeidant2 said:


> Barn B trainer makes me do a lot of work without stirrups to help me gain that feel of an extended leg with my heels down. So she'll hve me do work without stirrups then have me pick them up again and tells me to think as if I don't have stirrups at all. It helps to remind me not to brace against the stirrups.
> 
> You say engage my core--should I focus on tightening my ab muscles in a way you would to show off a six pack? Ha! Kind of tuck in my belly button and tighten. That's what I think/do when I want to strengthen my core. Is this the same concept you do when engaging core while riding?
> 
> ...


Yes but put one hand on your stomach and one on your back. If you tighten your abs, does your back tighten too? If so, that's not correct and you're likely bracing in your back which as an effect tightens your abs.

In order to have an effective seat, your back must be soft and supple... so avoid injury but to also allow your hips to move freely. Your abs should be just engaged enough to stabilize your upper body and allow your lower body to absorb and express the movement from the horse's momentum/impulsion.

It's a fine balancing act. 

What drew you to barn A in the first place?

I haven't seen any videos of you at barn B, so I can't really comment on the whole "not so great instruction".


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

I can show you a link to a few videos at barn B. It wasn't cantering. It was trotting over a cross rail. There's one video she asked me to trot and then canter right before the cross rail and canter out. I can show you that 

Barn A was the very first horse/trainer I ever was w in March. She's much further though (Indiana and I'm in Chicago) but she is so motherly. She hugs me at every accomplishment I do lol. She really takes her time showing me things aside from riding, she thinks about long term goals for me. Talked about showing A LOT. But lately I have noticed that the motherly role is not very.....appropriate? For lack of a better word. I like the way barn B is more firm and isn't so...encouraging even when I'm not doing too hot. I just thought barn A was more family like right off the bat which I'm realizing is better to have a more professional training. 

Like barn A, she will tell me how rest I'm doing even if I screw up or having a wrong form. Barn B will tell me "no--quiet ur hands. You have ballerina toes Tammy! Stop bouncing. Lean back" she tells me what I don't hear at barn A.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah I'd love to see videos


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Skyseternalangel said:


> The MORE relaxed you are, and thinking (let my legs HANG down, and be on only when I need to cue) you will ride it better.
> 
> Engage your core by sitting up tall and let everything else hang.
> 
> Literally don't even be concerned about your heels... j*ust focus on relaxing your ENTIRE leg. Let the stirrup cradle your foot*, not brace against your foot.



this is a good way to think of the old advice of "put more weight into your stirrup"

you aren't really putting more weight into your stirrup, but rather you are making your leg feel longer, and it starts from that place where your inner thigh joins your pubic area. the WHOLE leg kind of stetches downward, from the inner thign down to the heel. you want to go PAST the stirrup. but, since your foot is ON the stirrup, you effectively put more weight on it. however, the stirrup is not your goal, the ground is. 

you imagine your leg stretching so far down, from the pelvis to the heel, that you can drag your heel on the ground. 

one thing that helps is to do the old "roll the meat of the thigh outward" thing. you start by just sitting in the horse, while it is just standing. reach down and tuch your hand under the back of you meaty thigh. pull outward, so you are rolling the muscle outward and forward, which sort of rolls your femur bone around to make your knee and upper leg have a more solid connection to the saddle VS the thigh being off the saddle while the knee is on (pivot) . this helps creat more surface area for good adhesion to the saddle. do this with your foot OUT of teh stirrup, just hanging.

then, without changing the new position of your thigh, try to just lift your toes enough to pick up the stirrup. you will have a very long leg now, so it may be hard. do your best not to tense your leg, or it tenses slightly while you pick up stirrup, reroll your thigh out after you have picked up stirrups.

then walk on just feeling how much contact you have with saddle, from upper thigh to knee. and visualize your lower legs just skimming along the ground.

do NOT allow your butt to pouch out backward.

from this position, ask horse for a bit more impulsion, and not by squeezeing, but by bumping your ankle against him. like plumping a pillow with your ankles. when he is walking along good, just ask for the canter. don't over think it, just take a big breath, and ask. help yourself by clucking to him, or whatever helps him turn over into the canter.


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

tinyliny said:


> Skyseternalangel said:
> 
> 
> > The MORE relaxed you are, and thinking (let my legs HANG down, and be on only when I need to cue) you will ride it better.
> ...



So are u basically asking me to flop my fat from my thighs in front of me? Good way use my inner thigh! 

I'll try extending my whole leg down in my heel! When I go to ask for my canter, by slipping my leg behind the girth that's when I lose my stirrup. I guess I'm banding at my knee to touch behind the girth rather than pushing my whole leg behind the girth thus causing my toe to slip forward thereby losing a stirrup in that leg. Must be ! Anybody hve thatissue ?


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## Lisabaltic (Dec 26, 2015)

The video wouldn't open. 
I have a similar problem until another coach noticed my legs are too long for the horse! So no wonder i'm having problems with various transitions. I'm unable to fully get my legs on the horses barrel properly. Not sure if this is the case for you.
Also the knee gripping, I used to do that. It just comes from practice, relaxing more. I had a bad fall 10 years ago. I used to grip with my knees out of fear. Until I just let go, decided to trust the horse and move with the horse. It's a very freeing feeling to give up that control!! Our canter is so much better and smoother.
I'm going on a bigger horse next lesson.

I know it's hard not be hard on your self. The more hard you are on your self the more tense you get and the horse can sense that. Take each lesson as a learning experience. Not every lesson will be perfect.
Any concerns you should bring up with your coach.:runninghorse2:


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## Lisabaltic (Dec 26, 2015)

Zeidant2 said:


> Lots of work to do  I shouldn't be too hard considering only began in March but I get so upset at myself. I absolutely love it. It's such a serenity and a wonderful getaway from stress and reality.
> 
> Does sitting the trot help master the canter?



Yes it does! When you are in the sitting trot it is much easier to transition to the canter. I did lots of sitting trot last lesson. Getting the canter was so much easier. The sitting trot also makes you sit deeper in the saddle, which also helps with the canter.


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Lisabaltic said:


> The video wouldn't open.
> I have a similar problem until another coach noticed my legs are too long for the horse! So no wonder i'm having problems with various transitions. I'm unable to fully get my legs on the horses barrel properly. Not sure if this is the case for you.
> Also the knee gripping, I used to do that. It just comes from practice, relaxing more. I had a bad fall 10 years ago. I used to grip with my knees out of fear. Until I just let go, decided to trust the horse and move with the horse. It's a very freeing feeling to give up that control!! Our canter is so much better and smoother.
> I'm going on a bigger horse next lesson.
> ...



Thanks! This next lesson I will really try to force my leg down my heel and try to find out if I grip w me knees. I don't think I do? I was never told I grip w my knees by my instructors. I wonder ?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Zeidant2 said:


> Thanks! This next lesson *I will really try to force my leg down my heel *and try to find out if I grip w me knees. I don't think I do? I was never told I grip w my knees by my instructors. I wonder ?


No don't force yourself to do anything, that is going to prevent you from being with the horse


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

I was looking at stirrup pads. Wouldn't this help me to keep my leg in place thereby reducing one stressor (not losing my stirrup)


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Zeidant2 said:


> I was looking at stirrup pads. Wouldn't this help me to keep my leg in place thereby reducing one stressor (not losing my stirrup)


It's more of a bandaid than a fix, you lose your stirrups because your weight is too much in your seat and not enough in your stirrups. It's normal when you are starting out to favor weight more so in one area than both.


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## Zeidant2 (Mar 23, 2016)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Zeidant2 said:
> 
> 
> > I was looking at stirrup pads. Wouldn't this help me to keep my leg in place thereby reducing one stressor (not losing my stirrup)
> ...



Yeah I totally thought of that when I posted--that t won't fix my issue but cover it. I guess I thought it MIGHT help to train my leg to stay in that position. my lessons are this weekend so I'm super eager to get my heels lower. Gahh.


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