# 'Planned' breeding mishaps, anyone?



## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

If you can't remember what horse your supposed to breed, you shouldn't be breeding horses....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## oh vair oh (Mar 27, 2012)

Isn't it always a 50/50 chance on gender?


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I can tell you right now he'd be paying for a shot of lute so I can breed to the correct stud. I would be furious


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

How does a stallion go from a teaser to a breeder?
Why would he bring a stallion that was not breeding the mare?
Was he going back home , un load this one, load the correct one, then tease the mare again?
None of this makes sense.
Where were you?
Good luck with the foal. Whatever the answers to these questions are. Shalom


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

OutOfTheLoop said:


> If you can't remember what horse your supposed to breed, you shouldn't be breeding horses....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 ^^This x1000


oh vair oh said:


> Isn't it always a 50/50 chance on gender?


Yes there is a 50/50 chance of either gender with EVERY breeding. 



MsBHavin said:


> I can tell you right now he'd be paying for a shot of lute so I can breed to the correct stud. I would be furious


Ditto this as well. 



dbarabians said:


> How does a stallion go from a teaser to a breeder?
> Why would he bring a stallion that was not breeding the mare?
> Was he going back home , un load this one, load the correct one, then tease the mare again?
> None of this makes sense.
> ...


 I have all the same questions as well. 

Who advised you to use the lute? Was she being seen by a vet or was it one of those things "hey lets give her lute to get her pregnant" type deals? 

I believe that if lute isn't given at the right time when attempting what you were it doesn't do any good...


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> If you can't remember what horse your supposed to breed, you shouldn't be breeding horses....


He's been breeding horses for decades and is an accomplished and experienced breeder. He's pretty much retired from breeding now, though, and even he's admitted before, several times in fact, that he can't remember a lot of what he used to could. Not his fault that it happened, and I'm not sure exactly who you're directing this comment at.



> Isn't it always a 50/50 chance on gender?


Yes, it is, but from both studs previous foals, Leroy has a higher percentage of throwing a filly, whereas Bear tends to throw colts.



> I can tell you right now he'd be paying for a shot of lute so I can breed to the correct stud. I would be furious


I'm not too bothered by it. Like I said, over the past few weeks, I have been internally debating on which of his studs to breed my girl to. Either of them is fine by me, and Bear does compliment my mare a little better than Leroy. Even though I had planned to breed to Leroy, I don't mind breeding my mare to Bear again.



> How does a stallion go from a teaser to a breeder?
> Why would he bring a stallion that was not breeding the mare?
> Was he going back home , un load this one, load the correct one, then tease the mare again?
> None of this makes sense.
> ...


We've been using Bear as a teaser with my mare for the last few weeks, trying to figure out when she was in heat. We could never catch it and I ended up and bought a shot of lute so I'd be able to tell/control when she came in. The stud I was going to breed her to, Leroy, is quite a bit higher strung than Bear, who is in his mid twenties and a lot more laid back. It was an honest accident that he let Bear breed my mare, but like I already said, I'm not bothered by it.

And no, he wasn't going to go home and bring the other stud up. I was going to bring my mare to his place (he's my neighbor, literally walking distance). He owns three studs and the original goal was to make sure she was in full blown heat before I took her to his place, but it slipped his mind because I've bred my mare to Bear in the past and things got a little confusing, I guess. I was there, but it just happened before I could say anything. He did apologize, but I told him that it was fine and to just breed her to Bear since he compliments my mare pretty well and it had already happened/started.

Like I said, I'm not upset. If I'm not upset, and I'm the mare owner, there's no reason to be jumping on about things, right?


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

Agree whole heartedly with all that has been said. you have a 50/50 chance of a filly. you should never be breeding if you cant figure out which mare to which stud. why was he teasing with a breeding stud?


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Mistakes happen to the best of us, happy that you're ok with the whole thing! Hope you get that filly you want!


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> Who advised you to use the lute? Was she being seen by a vet or was it one of those things "hey lets give her lute to get her pregnant" type deals?
> 
> I believe that if lute isn't given at the right time when attempting what you were it doesn't do any good...


My friend originally informed me of it because she had to use it on her mares several months ago, and I did a lot of my own research before choosing to use the lute. Before I did, though, I asked a vet about it and spoke personally to the vet at his office about my concerns, what I'd be using it for, and if there were any effects, etc... to using it, whether or not it would be safe, etc...

The vet said it was perfectly safe and that the only way it wouldn't put her into a heat cycle was if she was in one already, which she wasn't. Said it'd take four to five days after giving it to her for her to come in, and it did. Vet said she'd be fine, and she is, though when I gave it to her I stayed out with her for several hours, as the vet did tell me of what it would do to her, etc... and I wanted to keep an eye on her. Believe me, before I chose to buy the lute, I asked a lot of questions and read a lot of information.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> Why was he teasing with a breeding stud?


I believe i've already answered that.  Though let me add this, the stud he was teasing her with hasn't been an active breeding stud in several years now. My neighbor hasn't bred any horses in a few years now, as he's essentially quit breeding horses.



> Mistakes happen to the best of us, happy that you're ok with the whole thing! Hope you get that filly you want!


Thanks!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Um. Nope, never. That makes me really scratch my head. 
Yikes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Hi Mr Policeman, I *FORGOT* I wasn't supposed to rob a bank.....

If you can't remember to not breed a horse, whose to say you can remember to feed them or give them water? Your neighbor has no business owning ANY variety of animal if his memory is THAT bad!

This is not an *oops*, this is not an *accident*, this is sheer stupidity and irresponsibility with all parties involved!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I suppose you do get what you pay for? 

Still scratching my head. I'd be livid.. But there are a few things I'd do differently than the OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> Hi Mr Policeman, I *FORGOT* I wasn't supposed to rob a bank.....
> 
> If you can't remember to not breed a horse, whose to say you can remember to feed them or give them water? Your neighbor has no business owning ANY variety of animal if his memory is THAT bad!
> 
> This is not an *oops*, this is not an *accident*, this is sheer stupidity and irresponsibility with all parties involved!


Who are you to judge whether or not this was an accident or not?

I've already stated that it was. Neither of us intended on breeding my mare to the stud that she was bred by, it just slipped his mind that I had picked out a different stud and the deed was already in the process of being done when I managed to remind him.

I do not mind her being bred by the stud that bred her. Like I already said, Bear compliments my mare quite well, IMO, and I already own one horse by him, my seven year old gelding Dakota.

I don't see how it was irresponsible to tease my mare before taking to her his place and getting all his studs up in a ruckus if she wasn't in heat. We were trying to do things to minimize the stress on all the horses, his studs, my mare, his mares, and my gelding. It's unfortunate that it slipped his mind that I wasn't planning on breeding to Bear and it happened anyway, but mistakes do happen and I'm not blaming him or myself. It just happened. end of story. I'll deal with it and I'm not upset with it because I already know what Bear throws with my mare.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

Which one out of that 'stud ' thread is he?


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Britt I hope that You have a healthy foal, that you do indeed get a filly from this cross as you wish.
In the future even if it cost you money to do so please for your safety, find another breeder and take your mare there and leave her.
If the gentleman is too old to remember which stallion and allowed a teaser to breed your mare he might have trouble handling the stallion.
You have NO experience handling a stallion and they DO tend to get very excited when breeding.
Please take this as a gentle warning.
As a stallion owner IMO you the gentleman, and both horses were in a very risky situation.
I am certain you do not realize the risk involved.
Placing yourself or allowing anyone in such a dangerous situtation is nothing short of foolish.
You got lucky this time young lady. Next time maybe not . Shalom


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

It was an accident. The wrong stallion bred the wrong mare because of ... forgetfulness. (Though other words could be used there.) 

Was the stallion washed prior to the breeding that wasn't supposed to take place? The mare? I would presume that because the stud was just supposed to be used for teasing, some steps in regards to hygiene were missed. 

Nope, no way no how. I'd be beyond furious; but again, I would do things very differently myself.


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## DeliciousD (Feb 25, 2013)

TBH the 'experienced breeder' is either a) irresponsible and shouldnt be a 'stallion man' or b) hoodwinking you. As for the OP, i am sorry but why would you breed to a stallion because someone told you that you are more likely to have a filly? You admit yourself the accident is better for your horse?!

mind...boggles


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

If you can't remember what stallion to tease with versus the actual breeding stallion for the service he needs to retire. That can be very dangerous. I don't care if the guy had 50 years experience because the proper handler would remember who is supposed to cover the mare. OP I do hope you get your filly, but I couldn't imagine what the situation would be if he used "the third" stallion when or if you weren't there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MsLady (Apr 18, 2013)

" So... has anyone on here ever had a planned breeding 'go wrong' so to say?"

I believe that was the OP question. So to answer your question, no, however we brought 3 horses home and by winter it looks like we will have 5. We knew one was pregnant and had a beautiful chestnut colt May 2. The other mare already had a 6 month old filly but we were told she was not bred back, well if I didn't know better i would say she was due to drop any day!! She is huge.

Good luck with your mare, I hope you get your filly and I'm glad there are people that understand accidents happen and it's not the end of the world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

I really need to commit myself for evaluation for asking this question.
There is a good possibilty that the breeding was not successful.
Which stallion is he going to use to tease the mare now?
OP you are the one who implied that the breeding was a "mishap". either you do not know the meaning of the word or you knew fully well that the title would get some attention. Negative or positive attention .
There are better ways to make friends on this forum. Instead of posting threads that seem to invite criticism may I suggest simply asking questions. In a less dramatic way.
Is the mare now going to the proper stallion or the new wonder boy?
You do intend to have him cover her more than once. Right? I hope also that the stallion and mare are properly cleansed before and after.
Your experienced breeder of 50 didnt forget that either. It is important to prevent infections in both stallion and mares. Thats where the attention needs to be centered on. Shalom


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

A person can be a "breeder" for as long as they want and still be a moron about it. I would be livid if this happened to me.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Quite honestly I'd be embarrassed to admit that I let that happen.....there's no chance I'd invest any money in a live breeding for a mare from my neighbors stud and not be there and have my mare prepared/cleaned and watch to make sure everything is in order.

I'm not sure if you stated you were there or not OP, but it sounds to me like poor planning, poor forethought and could've ended up being a very dangerous situation teasing with a breeding stallion, even if he was 'retired' from breeding....retired from breeding means gelded to me.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You youngsters just wait til you get older and start forgetting things, like putting your pants on over your underwear instead of underneath them! She said the breeder is old and forgets things, but he still knows how to handle horses, he was doing things by rote, which we all do sometimes. If you are dealing with an elderly gentleman that isn't as sharp as he once was, mistakes will happen, but the OP likes the stallion that bred her mare, she said it was a better choice.


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## DeliciousD (Feb 25, 2013)

waresbear said:


> You youngsters just wait til you get older and start forgetting things, like putting your pants on over your underwear instead of underneath them! She said the breeder is old and forgets things, but he still knows how to handle horses, he was doing things by rote, which we all do sometimes. If you are dealing with an elderly gentleman that isn't as sharp as he once was, mistakes will happen, but the OP likes the stallion that bred her mare, she said it was a better choice.


How rude.

If the gentlemen is too old and forgetful to do the job correctly and safely then surely it leads on to us questioning should he be performing the job at all? Stricks me as backyard breeding tbh.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

Amen to waresbear! The OP is not upset, so why should all you be? Crap happens. If it were a stud she DID NOT like then it would be a big deal, but she DOES like the stud, so no worries  hopefully mare and stallion were cleaned beforehand, but that being said I do know people who breed without cleaning first and haven't had problems thus far
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DeliciousD (Feb 25, 2013)

^^ then why did the OP bother posting at all? Especially such a flamatory post likily to gain responses or why did she go into such personal detail about the situation?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

DeliciousD said:


> ^^ then why did the OP bother posting at all? Especially such a flamatory post likily to gain responses or why did she go into such personal detail about the situation?


 To raise your blood pressure. And just because the breeder is older and does things by rote, doesn't mean he does them dangerously, although I don't know for sure, just commenting on what was posted. You just wait Missy until you get older, you will be changing your tune.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

My take on it. From the sounds of it this elderly gentleman is retired from breeding, but was willing to 'help out a friend' and breed to her mare. Yes a huge mistake was made!! And maybe this is why he retired from breeding in the first place, my guess is it was such a routine thing for him, from previous years that when he teased the mare and saw she was in he absentmindedly then bred her with the horse he happened to be holding. I don't know his normal procedure, but I'm guessing his clients generally didn't live next door, and normally he may have been able to tease with the breeding stallion. In this case, from my understanding, he used this teaser stallion because he was easier to handle. Now as long as op is happy, I'm happy for her! I hope she gets what she wants!

As for me, depends I guess, if it happened as I think here, a favor to me from a forgetful elderly neighbor doing me a favor, I would be disappointed, as I aborted and tried again. If it happened with a professional breeder that I paid for the service, I would be hopping mad!!

I don't think this thread was started with any malicious intent, when I read the title, I was thinking it sounded like a thread to show what could go wrong (w/ actual experiences) when breeding, a good learning thread for new breeders or someone considering it for the first time! Give them something to think about! Although the first story didn't quit go along with that. I still think it would be interesting to hear of others 'breeding gone wrong' stories.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> Which one out of that 'stud ' thread is he?


He's actually not pictured in that thread at all. I'll have to get some decent shots of him to post, as all I have are facial and front shots from winter, when he had all his winter woolies on.


> Britt I hope that You have a healthy foal, that you do indeed get a filly from this cross as you wish.
> In the future even if it cost you money to do so please for your safety, find another breeder and take your mare there and leave her.
> If the gentleman is too old to remember which stallion and allowed a teaser to breed your mare he might have trouble handling the stallion.
> You have NO experience handling a stallion and they DO tend to get very excited when breeding.
> ...


Thanks. Next time, if there is a next time (three horses are all I want, lol), I'll be buying a horse most likely. My neighbor's normal routine is to bring the mare down and leave her there, he just doesn't want to right now because he has his younger stud (not a breeding stud, though) pastured next to the breeding studs and was a bit nervous about the younger stud going through the fence if I brought my mare down and left her. That's why we were breeding her at my place.

I may not have much experience handling a stallion, but I do have some. Please don't assume that I have no stallion experience.



> TBH the 'experienced breeder' is either a) irresponsible and shouldnt be a 'stallion man' or b) hoodwinking you. As for the OP, I am sorry but why would you breed to a stallion because someone told you that you are more likely to have a filly? You admit yourself the accident is better for your horse?!
> 
> Mind...boggles


TBH, you don't know me or my neighbor or his history breeding horses, therefore you have no reason or right to assume that he's irresponsible or 'hoodwinking' me. I've known him my entire life, my mom has known him her entire live, and so has my grandmother and great grandmother, my entire family.

No one told me I'd have a better chance of a filly. Looking back at what the studs have thrown in the past gave me that information. It's rare for Bear to throw fillies, but Leroy throws about 50/50% colts to fillies ratios. I would have had a better chance of getting a filly from Leroy, that's all.


> " So... has anyone on here ever had a planned breeding 'go wrong' so to say?"
> 
> I believe that was the OP question. So to answer your question, no, however we brought 3 horses home and by winter it looks like we will have 5. We knew one was pregnant and had a beautiful chestnut colt May 2. The other mare already had a 6 month old filly but we were told she was not bred back, well if I didn't know better I would say she was due to drop any day!! She is huge.
> 
> Good luck with your mare, I hope you get your filly and I'm glad there are people that understand accidents happen and it's not the end of the world.


Thank you! And yes, that was what the topic was asking. I started this thread because I was curious if anyone had ever planned a breeding with a mare or stallion, and then had something happen like, the stallion bred the wrong mare, etc... I was curious to others experiences with planned breeding gone wrong.



> I really need to commit myself for evaluation for asking this question.
> There is a good possibilty that the breeding was not successful.
> Which stallion is he going to use to tease the mare now?
> OP you are the one who implied that the breeding was a "mishap". Either you do not know the meaning of the word or you knew fully well that the title would get some attention. Negative or positive attention .
> ...


There is a possibility, but I'm hoping she took. I'm supposed to contact him tomorrow after work or Saturday about covering my mare again, just to be sure. And then, twenty-one days from today, if she's back in heat, he said we'll try again with whichever stud I want.

I wrote the title of the thread like I did because I was curious about whether or not anyone else had had something like this happen, as I know it does happen. I thought the thread's title was self-explanatory, really. I guess not, though.



> You youngsters just wait til you get older and start forgetting things, like putting your pants on over your underwear instead of underneath them! She said the breeder is old and forgets things, but he still knows how to handle horses, he was doing things by rote, which we all do sometimes. If you are dealing with an elderly gentleman that isn't as sharp as he once was, mistakes will happen, but the OP likes the stallion that bred her mare, she said it was a better choice.


Right, i'm glad someone understands, lol. 



> Amen to waresbear! The OP is not upset, so why should all you be? Crap happens. If it were a stud she DID NOT like then it would be a big deal, but she DOES like the stud, so no worries  hopefully mare and stallion were cleaned beforehand, but that being said I do know people who breed without cleaning first and haven't had problems thus far


Exactly. If it were a stud I didn't like, you can bet I'd be at the vets buying a shot of Lute, but the stud is one I do like. A lot. So I'm not fussed. And my mare was clean. I've been keeping her clean religiously for the past several weeks now, waiting for her to come into heat. 


> ^^ then why did the OP bother posting at all? Especially such a flamatory post likily to gain responses or why did she go into such personal detail about the situation?


Because, and I thought it was obvious, I was curious about others incidents like this, if anyone had ever had something like this happen, because I know it happens every now and then. I went into a little detail because I was hoping to get some feedback about others planned breeding going wrong, some basic backstory, etc... 



> My take on it. From the sounds of it this elderly gentleman is retired from breeding, but was willing to 'help out a friend' and breed to her mare. Yes a huge mistake was made!! And maybe this is why he retired from breeding in the first place, my guess is it was such a routine thing for him, from previous years that when he teased the mare and saw she was in he absentmindedly then bred her with the horse he happened to be holding. I don't know his normal procedure, but I'm guessing his clients generally didn't live next door, and normally he may have been able to tease with the breeding stallion. In this case, from my understanding, he used this teaser stallion because he was easier to handle. Now as long as op is happy, I'm happy for her! I hope she gets what she wants!
> 
> As for me, depends I guess, if it happened as I think here, a favor to me from a forgetful elderly neighbor doing me a favor, I would be disappointed, as I aborted and tried again. If it happened with a professional breeder that I paid for the service, I would be hopping mad!!
> 
> I don't think this thread was started with any malicious intent, when I read the title, I was thinking it sounded like a thread to show what could go wrong (w/ actual experiences) when breeding, a good learning thread for new breeders or someone considering it for the first time! Give them something to think about! Although the first story didn't quit go along with that. I still think it would be interesting to hear of others 'breeding gone wrong' stories.


Right. I'm happy. I was a little disappointed earlier, but after thinking about it all day, I'm very glad we're going with Bear again, because, as stated before, Leroy's not the best match for my mare. She needs a stud who is lighter on the front end, and Leroy isn't light on the front. After thinking about it, I realized that my neighbor has never bred Leroy to a mare who was heavy in the front except for once, the last mare he bred Leroy to (and the foal came out with a super thick, shorter neck). I really don't want that, so, if, in a new years, I still want a foal by Leroy, I'll buy one if he'll sell me one of the ones he currently has (he only has two fillies/mares by Leroy) or I'll see if he'll be willing to do a broodmare lease on one of his mares for a breeding to Leroy. But I know I'll be perfectly happy with another foal by Bear.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Britt your best bet is to have the stallion cover the mare every other day until she is no longer in heat.
Then I will stress this... have that mare USed at about 14 days to see if she is pregnant and has twins.
I know I have stated that I do not do this for my own mares bred by my stallion. I though have resources and can afford the loss of a foal or one that is aborted. My breeding program will continue there are plenty of mares here to ensure a foal crop if that is necessary. You are breeding one 19 yo mare. If she does twin and aborts or absorbs them she will be 21 if she successfully carries a foal next year.
You are limiting your options. Get the US and be assured the breeding took and is safe.
Best of luck but allow me to stress you need to seriously consider getting an US for your peace of mind and to ensure a healthy foal.
People have given you some very sound advice. Listen to those with experience. It is easier to learn from the mistakes and advice of others than to endure a tragic incident and learn the hard way.
Good luck and be more careful the next time the stallion covers your mare. Shalom


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## DeliciousD (Feb 25, 2013)

waresbear said:


> To raise your blood pressure. And just because the breeder is older and does things by rote, doesn't mean he does them dangerously, although I don't know for sure, just commenting on what was posted. You just wait Missy until you get older, you will be changing your tune.


Please don't call me Missy, its very rude and unnecessary. I was drawing conclusions from the OP's thread where she herself stated he ws old and forgetful of a number of things. If you are as old and wise as you profess, then stop making your assumptions yourself to my own level of experience. Knowlegde does not necessarily increase with age.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Nope, never heard a breeding mishap like this. Heard about a fool who wrapped the mares tail to tight, left it on and ended up amputating the mares tail. Stupid is as stupid does on that one. The mare aborted and probably should not have been bred anyway. I am glad that the OP is happy with the situation. These things happen in backyard breeding all the time. I don't mean that in an offensive manner, but thats what is going on. I have no problem with backyard breeding as long as you take care of your mess (foal) and don't demand I sign any anti-slaughter legislation/petitions. The OP is excited about this foal and will try her best with it. I wish her the best. 

All sperm swim the same speed, its blind luck that leads to one gender more than another. 

I agree with the above poster about an ultrasound. It would serve to confirm your mares pregnancy, and allow you to pinch a non-productive one. The only time I have heard about one breeding being used for foal production is in AI and even then they often do it twice, time with ovulation via ultrasound. Remember it takes about 48 hours for the egg to break out of its capsule. Standing heat indicates that there is an increase in progesterone and a dip in estrogen, but it does not indicate that ovulation has taken place.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

^^^ NUTS, they really need to add a 'like' button to mobile!!!! Wares you are to awesome, lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I don't consider this breeding as 'backyard' breeding. It's all about ones opinion, really, on what backyard breeding is.

I consider backyard breeding as those who breed just to breed and have nothing planned for the future foal, etc... I do have plans for this foal. I have plans for my gelding that I haven't done yet, but they are in the making. Lol. To me, backyard breeding is breeding with no thought about the stud and mare complimenting each other, no research, no study, no preparation, etc... So, to me, this is not a backyard breeding thing going on. I have a reason for breeding my mare and I place my values on different areas than others when it comes to breeding. (I'm breeding for a sane, sound, safe trail horse with a future in trail competitions, obstacle courses, etc...). Lol.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Britt said:


> To me, backyard breeding is breeding with no thought about the stud and mare complimenting each other, no research, no study, no preparation, etc... So, to me, this is not a backyard breeding thing going on.


Based on that definition, you ARE backyard breeding!!! You didn't choose this stud, you didn't carefully pick him out, you didn't do SQUAT!! All you did was go OOPS, guess I gotta baby coming from him!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You _didn't_ choose the stud. The _wrong stud_ covered the mare. 

Again, I ask (since my question was ignored): 

*Since this was a teasing, was the stallion washed? Mare? Were the proper hygiene procedures followed?* Or was it just "mmmoops!"? 

This is a prime example of backyard (I almost typed "backward") breeding. If this isn't a prime example - and it has been since the word go, when you were choosing a stallion - I don't know what is.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> You _didn't_ choose the stud. The _wrong stud_ covered the mare.
> 
> Again, I ask (since my question was ignored):
> 
> ...


The stud wasn't on my original list, but he is one I'd be willing to breed to again. The only reason he wasn't on my first pick-list is because I already have a gelding by him. He may have been the 'wrong stud' but at least hes one I genuinely like and would have used again. Makes it OK in my book, not 'backyard breeding' because if it was truly a backyard breeding case, I would not have liked the stud that bred my mare, IMO.

And I coulda sworn I answered that question... In any case, yes, my mare was clean. I've kept her clean for weeks now, cleaning her on a daily basis, waiting for her to come into heat. She was and still is nice and clean (I cleaned her again after coming home from work this afternoon before my neighbor brought Bear back up to cover her again).

I can't answer for the stud as far as cleaning goes. He's not my horse and that's his owners perogative and I don't pry into what my neighbor does as far as cleaning his horses. 



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *Britt*
> _To me, backyard breeding is breeding with no thought about the stud and mare complimenting each other, no research, no study, no preparation, etc... So, to me, this is not a backyard breeding thing going on._
> 
> Based on that definition, you ARE backyard breeding!!! You didn't choose this stud, you didn't carefully pick him out, you didn't do SQUAT!! All you did was go OOPS, guess I gotta baby coming from him!


Um... no, it's not. 
The stud and the mare do compliment each other pretty well. He wasn't on my first list, yes, but Bear will always be considered for a stud for any mare I was to own for as long as he lives (he's in his mid/upper twenties). The ONLY reason I wasn't originally considering him was because I already own a gelding by him.

I have put a LOT of thought into this breeding, and I don't appreciate you trying to say I haven't. I've been planning on breeding my mare since this year began, longer, actually. I may not have picked Bear to breed to, but since he is a better match for my mare, it's alright. I've bred my girl to him before and my gelding is a great horse.

If I wasn't pleased with this cross in general, you can bet my mare would've been Luted and bred to the other stud before she could blink, but I am pleased with the cross, regardless. My mare was still prepared for breeding, etc... I have put lots of thought into it when I was going to go with the other stud, and since deciding to carry on with the breeding that happened, I'm more than pleased with it because it is a better choice in general.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Posting to add, since I will not be home until late tomorrow night, we covered my mare again today after I got home from work. We were going to wait until tomorrow, but I'm not going to be home and my neighbor has other things he's got to do that can't be put off.

She came in three days ago. We covered her on the second and third days. Can anyone tell me exactly how long a mare stays in heat and when ovulation typically occurs? I've tried looking it up and can't seem to find a straight answer and everyone I ask tells me something different!

I know that the sperm from the stud stay's 'alive' (or whatever the correct terminology is) for forty-eight hours... Lol.


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## MyLittlePonies (Mar 15, 2011)

Britt said:


> Posting to add, since I will not be home until late tomorrow night, we covered my mare again today after I got home from work. We were going to wait until tomorrow, but I'm not going to be home and my neighbor has other things he's got to do that can't be put off.
> 
> She came in three days ago. We covered her on the second and third days. Can anyone tell me exactly how long a mare stays in heat and when ovulation typically occurs? I've tried looking it up and can't seem to find a straight answer and everyone I ask tells me something different!
> 
> I know that the sperm from the stud stay's 'alive' (or whatever the correct terminology is) for forty-eight hours... Lol.


It all depends on the mare. She could be in heat for a week or even two weeks. Ovulation is something I would ultrasound for to cover her close to the expected ovulation day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Ummmmmmmm..... The stallion's cleanliness most definitely IS your business, and you SHOULD BE very concerned with it!! Both mare and stud should be cleaned just prior to breeding. Y'know, basic breeding practices. 
Good lord. Backyard breeding at its finest.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

JustDressageIt said:


> Good lord. Backyard breeding at its finest.


Is that finest or worst, I'm not sure


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I have a question...

If the gentleman is older and supposedly retired from breeding, why does he have THREE studs, one of which is new? Every breeder that I've known personally (admittedly not very many) has gelded their stud when they got out of the business. I don't know. Something just doesn't add up for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I know many breeders who have retired and kept their stallions studs, she mentioned that he is semi-retired so may plan on doing private or select breedings in the future.
Nothing smells 'fishy' to me, all I see is an inexperienced mare owner (from a breeding standpoint) who could use some education. While I agree it's shocking she isn't concerned with the stallions cleanliness, we should use this thread as an opportunity to educate the OP, instead of leaving snarky remarks.

The thing is, she's made it very clear that the breeding will happen, she's happy with the stud and has plans for the foal. Great! Maybe you count it as 'backyard breeding', but throwing insults isn't going reverse said breeding, in fact it might just run OP off this thread (or the forum entirely) before she can receive advise or education from people who are willing to help her keep from making mistakes throughout the rest of the process.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Well, I hope everything works out, OP and you get a good foal from this with no complications. I do have a question though, and I'm not trying to be critical, I'm legitimately curious. Why the shot to induce heat? Wouldn't it be easier to just wait for her to go into heat? Again, not questioning or trying to be critical, I'm just not overly familiar with this particular procedure.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

this is just an aside, but the odds of having one gender over another do change (not always 50/50 each and every time), with each mating. However, it has to be the same two animals/humans pairing. 

if a man and a woman have a boy with the first birth, the chances of having another boy are greater than 50%. Why? because by having one boy, they have demonstrated that there are physical parameters in place (vaginal ph, sperm ratios and such) that favored one gender over the other. If the same two pair again, those same parameters are more than 50% likely to be in place, thus creating a very slightly weighted advantage toward having the same gender baby. 

Have two boys, and the chances of the third baby being a boy go up even more.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

That stallion can pass along any number of infections to your mare that may cause her to abort.
allowing any mating without knowing if both horses are clear of any pathogens is pure foolishness. Britt you are taking some very serious risk with this breeding and if nothing is passed either to the stallion or mare then you need to really be thankful.
NO mare comes here without a clean bill of health from a veternarian complete.
You can keep your mare as clean as a whistle but you cannot see and viruses or herpes that she may have been harbouring from the last breeding. Or the stallion for that matter!!!
Britt you have admitted that the mare is not an easy keeper. She is 19 if she is infected with something from this breeding the fault lies with you. FOR NOT Researching the required test that any mare and stallion should have.
I hope you learn from this and I hope the mating is successful and the foal is healthy.
Get the US and while there have the vet swab that mare and test her for any equine STDs for a better word.
Young lady you have a lot to learn. You learn by listening to others with more experience instead of justifying questionable actions.
I have thought at times others have been a little harsh. I am now beginning to feel their frustration. Shalom


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## DeliciousD (Feb 25, 2013)

Can i just add there is a paper by Jos statign that in CHILLED semen used post ovulation there is a slightly increased chance of a colt as the male sperm cells are slightly faster. BUT there is no definite. 

As for the lack of cleaning not being your business....y our poor mare! Did you have a pre breeding examination done? 

This is one of the reasons why CEM and EVH is such an issue atm.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

LOL!!

There is not always a 50/50 situation where gender is concerned. Sperm decides. who's to know what properties a stallion may produce via their sperm production. It would not surprise me if a particular stallion is known to throw a higher percentage of fillies. I haven't taken that much notice of the stallions I have handled, because I could have cared less, as long as the foals were healthy. I guess I could go back and trace them, but I will, instead, look at human families.

How many families have all boys or all girls? I have three sisters (no brothers)and I know a number of other families that have all one gender. One family had 5 boys before they gave up trying to have a daughter. The old 50/50 does not explain that, does it?


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Britt, I hope your mare delivers a happy, healthy foal. Best of luck.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Allison Finch said:


> LOL!!
> 
> There is not always a 50/50 situation where gender is concerned. Sperm decides.


While sperm decides isn't it the case that the acidity or alkilinity in the vagina can also pay a part? So the 50/50 odds are affected by both parents.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Golden Horse said:


> While sperm decides isn't it the case that the acidity or alkilinity in the vagina can also pay a part? So the 50/50 odds are affected by both parents.


That would be correct. The pH of the male can dictate the odds being in favor of males or females, but so can the pH of the vagina, as well as other negative factors. Most negative influences that affect motility tend to favor males as male sperm are more motile to begin with.

AF, a stallion that consistently produces males often has poor quality semen, which, as above, tends to favor the more motile male sperm as it attenuates the already slower moving female sperm...


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes yes...

XX rocks!!

Which parent determines the sex of a child

Oh you weakling XY's!!


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

With regard to semen-- males are sprinters; they tend to be faster, but have little endurance and die quickly. Females are a bit slower, but they outlast the males in a hard to find egg. You can actually stack your odds a bit depending on when you breed, whether equine or human. Yes, this has been proven.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

> I'm legitimately curious. Why the shot to induce heat? Wouldn't it be easier to just wait for her to go into heat?


No problem. I don't mind answering. 

I was informed about the shot by my friend. I spoke to the vet about using it, because my mare's heat cycles are extremely hard to figure out. She doesn't show when she's in heat and doesn't act different, etc... Even with me checking her everyday for several months, I could never figure it out nor could anyone else. 

We decided to use the shot that way we would know for a fact when she went into heat, as it induces a heat cycle within four to five days. That way there was no way we could miss it if we documented it.


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## luv2ride (Jun 9, 2011)

I hope you have a healthy foal. I recently got my mare bred and the stallion owner had me take her to the vet for an ultrasound to sow where she was inher heat cycle. It took a couple of times then we found a 40cc follicle. I took her to the stud that day. I'm sure I got the breeding I paid for even though they had 2 stallions. Since we knew my mare had a follicle there was no need for a teaser. Now I've got my fingers crossed. She goes back to the vet for another ultrasound on the 24th to see if she is in foal. By the way my mare doesn't show her heat either. Anyway that is the way I choose to have my mare bred, maybe it is something you should consider in the future


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

Britt said:


> No problem. I don't mind answering.
> 
> We decided to use the shot that way we would know for a fact when she went into heat, as it induces a heat cycle within four to five days. That way there was no way we could miss it if we documented it.


Ah, that makes sense. I've never had to think about that because everyone within a 10 mile radius knows when my mare is in heat.


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## bitinsane (Jun 5, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> this is just an aside, but the odds of having one gender over another do change (not always 50/50 each and every time), with each mating. However, it has to be the same two animals/humans pairing.
> 
> if a man and a woman have a boy with the first birth, the chances of having another boy are greater than 50%. Why? because by having one boy, they have demonstrated that there are physical parameters in place (vaginal ph, sperm ratios and such) that favored one gender over the other. If the same two pair again, those same parameters are more than 50% likely to be in place, thus creating a very slightly weighted advantage toward having the same gender baby.
> 
> Have two boys, and the chances of the third baby being a boy go up even more.


This is a bunch of BS in my book :lol: gender is 50/50 in every pregnancy. Chromosome 23 which is the last sex of chromosomes determines sex. To get a boy, the y chromosome from the father pairs up with the x from the mother. It's purely chance. nothing can influence that.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

bitinsane said:


> This is a bunch of BS in my book :lol: gender is 50/50 in every pregnancy. Chromosome 23 which is the last sex of chromosomes determines sex. To get a boy, the y chromosome from the father pairs up with the x from the mother. It's purely chance. nothing can influence that.


Nothing? :lol: there are multiple posts in this thread with really good information regarding the fact that it's definitely not 100% chance.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

alexischristina said:


> Nothing? :lol: there are multiple posts in this thread with really good information regarding the fact that it's definitely not 100% chance.


Quite true. Being in the medical field, I can attest to the fact that there are multiple influences that indeed affect male/female ratio and resulting pregnancy.

Males, both equine and human may produce a significantly higher % of one sex or the other, (sometimes greater than 90%) thereby affecting the odds of one gender over the other. In theory, it is 50/50, but in reality, anomalies always occur, and more frequently than one might think. Uterine environment, penetration depth, sperm count, breeding schedule, and diet are other major factors that do influence gender selection.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

bitinsane said:


> This is a bunch of BS in my book :lol: gender is 50/50 in every pregnancy. Chromosome 23 which is the last sex of chromosomes determines sex. To get a boy, the y chromosome from the father pairs up with the x from the mother. It's purely chance. nothing can influence that.


I would suggest talking to a reproduction specialist. 
I bet you get enlightened. ;-)


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