# Etiquette when using someone else's stuff



## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

I was reading through Phantomhorse13's journal and an interesting topic was raised. I thought I'd start a thread as I'm very curious what everyone's thoughts are. 

If you ride someone else's horse in their tack and break something - do you think you are responsible for replacing/paying for it? 

Or another one - if someone asks you to ride their horse and it gets injured (let's say it isn't b/c you are necessarily being careless) - would you offer to help with the vet bills? 

Another scenario that came up in another thread - if you give permission for someone else to ride your horse and they get hurt - do you feel like you should offer to pay for their doctor's bills (if incurred)? 

I do not think I would pay for someone's doctors bills - there are inherent risks when horse riding and as long as I believed the rider was suitable for the horse then I think that they are responsible for their own safety. A different story if I put a green rider on a complicated mount expecting it all to go smoothly. 

I have (thankfully) not had to deal with any of these situations myself - but I'm not sure what the 'protocol' is (or if there even is one). I just feel that these days, a lot of folks take things for granted. 

One example I CAN provide is not related to breaking or hurting anything. I had plans to trailer my horse to a tack open house. I wanted to ensure her saddle fit was correct and they had some events going on that day anyway -so figured it'd be good exposure for her. My friend wanted to come along with her horse. So I trailered both horses (approx 2 hours one way). At the end of the day I was a little ticked off that she didn't even offer to chuck in some money for diesel. I mean, I was going to go be going anyway, but I did trailer her horse and I figure it'd be common courtesy to help pay for fuel. When I bummed a ride off someone to go trail riding (even though they were already going), I gave money to pay for fuel b/c it is extra fuel to haul my horse and I wanted to show my appreciation that they drove and allowed me to tag along and take up space in their truck/trailer. 

What is everyone's thoughts?


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

This is why I have written contracts before I get someone on my horse and make sure they insure themselves both personally and third party (if they injure someone else or their property). If I'm leading and it's just in the arena I might be OK with that. Otherwise it's not worth it to me. I live in an expensive area (horse costs me £1000 a month basically with everything included) and only have funds for one comfortably right this moment. Anyone else can get a lesson elsewhere. 

When staff ride her she is covered under the business. 

As for tack breaking. If it's a stirrup leather snapping sure no problem. But if that person drops the saddle and breaks it? Paying for it 100%. If things go missing let's say a £50 brush... I'll basically tell them to buy their own grooming kit henceforth if they are unable to keep neat and put things away. Accidents happen but that doesn't lessen accountability. As for vet bills for me it depends on exclusions. If insurance will pay for it then I might be ok letting it slide if a genuine thing. If it's excluded and by chance it is I write this in the contract, then I fully expect the rider to pay for 50% of the bill. If the rider ignores my written limitations on their activities (say I tell them no hacking but they hack out and get hit by a car) I will absolutely be claiming 100% of those funds and more in damages. 

I might be more relaxed if I say had a barn of my own and several horses and private property to ride on (while still making sure they sign accountability forms etc) but for where I am and right now heck no. I will cover me twice ;P


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

1. If I break their tack, heck yeah I'm responsible for paying for it, replacing it, getting it fixed, whatever.

2. I think this would sort of depend on whether I felt responsible for it. I doubt I will ever be someone that people ask to ride their horses, LOL, so I don't really have an opinion. To turn it around, I've got someone who rides two of my horses a couple of times a week when we're out of town. I doubt she could afford to pay their vet bills if something like that were to happen, and I wouldn't really expect her to even make the offer unless it was something that was blatantly her fault and absolutely preventable.

3. No, I wouldn't offer to pay doctor's bills. This same person as in #2 is very aware of the personality of these two horses, as she has been our instructor with them since the beginning of this year. If she thought they were unsafe to ride, or that she was incapable of riding them, I think she would have let me know. If she thinks she is capable of riding them (and she is) then that's her choice. She actually just asked to ride the third horse. I told her that's fine, but he's the anxious one so she needs to be careful. He doesn't do too well with new riders. I'm going to just reiterate that one more time to her.

4. If I offered to let someone ride my horse because **I** thought they could handle it, and then they got hurt, I would be more likely to pay for doctor's bills.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

1. Yes, not a problem. I would probably consider the state of the equipment when I accepted it. If something's already dangling and it just happens to give in when I tuck on it, it's probably not fair that I pay for a new piece of equipment.

2. Yes. If I rode someone's horse (or a barn's horse) and he stepped into a nail, I'd feel horrible and would want to contribute to making the horse "whole".

3. No, I would not offer to help with medical bills. My actions were not the proximate cause of their injury. An attorney will see this as tacit admission of guilt. I wouldn't even say "I'm sorry." *Corollary: Nobody rides my horse.*


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

wrong thread!♠


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If you ride someone else's horse in their tack and break something - do you think you are responsible for replacing/paying for it? 

It would depend on how it got damaged. Stirrup leather lets go as I'm getting up? Nope, it was obviously old and not tended to. Ditto Bridle comes apart while I'm riding their horse, NOPE. I BORROW anything to use on my horse, if it's damaged or broken when I'm done, YES. I will either pay for the repair or I'll buy a new one. 

Or another one - if someone asks you to ride their horse and it gets injured (let's say it isn't b/c you are necessarily being careless) - would you offer to help with the vet bills? Nope. 

Another scenario that came up in another thread - if you give permission for someone else to ride your horse and they get hurt - do you feel like you should offer to pay for their doctor's bills (if incurred)? Nope. 

If I bum a ride for me & my horse, I'll have them go by the gas station on the way home and I'll pay 1/2 or 1/3 or...whatever the # of horses/owner's bumming rides. If I am hauling and someone wants a ride, I tell sure, no problem, we'll split the gas and you can buy me lunch. No problem.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I responded on the other thread too.


cbar said:


> If you ride someone else's horse in their tack and break something - do you think you are responsible for replacing/paying for it?


To me this depends. Mostly, yes. But what if their horse always drops at the saddle rack to roll, and they put their saddle on the horse which cost $2,000, neglect to tell me that due to this problem they always grab the saddle off quickly, and the horse breaks the tree? 

To me this is similar to someone who gave me a ride in her car, said "don't lock the door," quietly, and then when I got out and hit the lock button by mistake, told me she didn't have a door key so I had to pay for a locksmith. A person has a certain amount of responsibility to warn people clearly if there is something out of the ordinary required for their tack.

If a horse pulls back and they don't tell you before you tie the horse, you shouldn't have to buy them a new halter. But mostly if I was using it when it broke, I replace it.



cbar said:


> Or another one - if someone asks you to ride their horse and it gets injured (let's say it isn't b/c you are necessarily being careless) - would you offer to help with the vet bills?


No, and I think whoever owns a horse takes responsibility for their health. I've seen many times where a horse was injured and it had nothing to do with the rider, and I don't think by getting on a horse I take responsibility for everything that might happen if they spook or have an accident. For example, my friend was riding a horse and he spooked on the beach, ran a half mile and ended up tying up. The horse owner was responsible for the vet bills from that unknown health issue. Besides, the horse owner has all the say in how far and aggressive they want to be with treatments. Some might put a horse down for a badly broken bone, and others might spend $10,000.



cbar said:


> Another scenario that came up in another thread - if you give permission for someone else to ride your horse and they get hurt - do you feel like you should offer to pay for their doctor's bills (if incurred)?


No. Everyone should take full responsibility for the risk incurred by getting on a horse or even being around them. Freak accidents happen also. For example, a friend was on my horse when my horse fell flat on her face and gave my friend a bad concussion. Her own insurance would cover all the CT scans and such, but my health insurance would not pay for those things for another person.
You never know exactly what someone else will do in an unexpected situation, so you can never fully assess all of that when letting a person on a horse you believe they can manage well.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I


> f you ride someone else's horse in their tack and break something - do you think you are responsible for replacing/paying for it?


I think it depends on the situation. If a friend said, "hey, hop on him real quick." A rein broke while I was asking the horse to do something, I'd offer to fix it. Even if it might not of been in the best shape.

If I did something stupid like let a split rein drag on the ground while leading the horse and the horse stepped on it and broke. I would replace it even if friend said not to worry about it. My fault, I will pay for it.



> if someone asks you to ride their horse and it gets injured (let's say it isn't b/c you are necessarily being careless) - would you offer to help with the vet bills?


That's a tough one. I think some of that is dependent on the relationship. Is the horse owner a friend? Paying client? Situation the injury was incurred?

I have rode horses for friends and have had friends ride mine to accomplish something we weren't capable of ourselves at that time when the horse needed it. 
I would feel horrible if a friends horse was injured in my care whether it was a complete accident or negligence on my part. I would probably offer to help pay or pay in that situation.




> Another scenario that came up in another thread - if you give permission for someone else to ride your horse and they get hurt - do you feel like you should offer to pay for their doctor's bills (if incurred)?


My friends don't ask to ride my horses and I don't ask to ride theirs. However I have offered my horses and I have been offered the use of friends horses. (Along with the scenario above)
With that said I would not offer a horse over the level of friend. But my friends are handier than I am so no worries there! LOL! I wouldn't pay medical nor would they expect me to. Vice verse, I wouldn't expect friend to pay for my medical bills.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is the subject of using someone else's horse trailer! I only bring this up for others opinions: when my family borrowed a close friend's trailer to move my horse to where I'm living (9 hours away), we blew one of the tires about 5 hours into the drive. My stepdad was in firm belief that we were not subject to pay to replace it, as the owner of the trailer had stored the trailer on wet ground for as long as we have known her, and let it sit, leading to dry rotted tires. I was in belief that we should at least pay for the tire that blew, as she didn't charge us for use of the trailer, and she was a close family friend. If you borrow a trailer and popped a tire, would you pay for the tire?

Going off of this, what if your horse chews up the inside of the trailer? My BO's gelding has ruined every single padded bar in her new trailer from chewing at the pads (and now he rides in a grazing muzzle!). Would you help pay to fix this?


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

ClearDonkey said:


> OIf you borrow a trailer and popped a tire, would you pay for the tire?
> 
> Going off of this, what if your horse chews up the inside of the trailer? ...Would you help pay to fix this?


Yes, I would think whoever was using the trailer should fix the tire. 
I also think if a horse damages inside of a trailer while using it, the horse owner should pay for it. 

What about if your horse destroys property at a boarding stable? I've run into this a lot. My horses and others will occasionally chew on boards, kick walls, break fences and gates. I've offered to pay for most of these things and have always had the barn owners turn me down. All the barn owners I've known seem to believe horses wearing away barns and fences are part of the cost of operating a barn. 

However, all the fences that my horses have broken have been single time accidents rather than patterns. One horse owner at my barn was charged for fencing because her horse broke it down several times a week for awhile, and the barn owner had to add extra creative fencing lines to keep it all intact. 

What if you are using a wheelbarrow or manure pick at the barn and it breaks? Should the barn owner replace it or whoever was using it?


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

If I borrow a piece of tack and it breaks while I'm using it, then I'd replace or repair it. Which would depend on a few things. If I borrow something I've obviously decided the item is in working condition, so if something happens to it while I'm using it that's my fault. I generally only borrow bits on schooling headstalls, so a repair or partial replacement may be adequate.

If I borrow a horse ( I used to for specific jobs if all I had were green horses) and it was injured while with me, is probably cover the costs or replace the horse, if the unthinkable happened. 

I always pitch in on cost of travel, unless I'm being paid to work. I always make it very clear that costs are either shared or, if I'm working, my travel time and fuel are covered.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

ClearDonkey said:


> One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is the subject of using someone else's horse trailer! I only bring this up for others opinions: when my family borrowed a close friend's trailer to move my horse to where I'm living (9 hours away), we blew one of the tires about 5 hours into the drive. My stepdad was in firm belief that we were not subject to pay to replace it, as the owner of the trailer had stored the trailer on wet ground for as long as we have known her, and let it sit, leading to dry rotted tires. I was in belief that we should at least pay for the tire that blew, as she didn't charge us for use of the trailer, and she was a close family friend. If you borrow a trailer and popped a tire, would you pay for the tire?
> 
> Going off of this, what if your horse chews up the inside of the trailer? My BO's gelding has ruined every single padded bar in her new trailer from chewing at the pads (and now he rides in a grazing muzzle!). Would you help pay to fix this?


I don't borrow (or loan) trailers but if I did, and it was a good family friend and they weren't charging me for the use, then the least I could do would be to buy a new tire or, if possible, pay to repair the old one. If I rent a trailer, then no, it's on the rental company to make sure everything is in good working order. 

As for chewing up stuff in the trailer, or like my stallion, pawing the mats down off the walls, especially if you're paying for the haul, no it's part of the cost of doing business. I don't find it unreasonable to require a grazing muzzle or soft boots for one that paws.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

Oh, I don't think I'd lend my trailer to anyone. i'm all for helping folks, but that is kind of where I draw the line. I'm very particular about how my stuff is cared for and I would be so worried if someone else had my trailer. If I borrowed someone else's trailer and the tire blew I would probably pay to get the tire fixed. If it was in really bad shape I probably wouldn't have borrowed it in the first place.

I also don't normally let other people ride my horse's. There is one girl that will sometimes ride in the group I tag along with - she doesn't have her own horse so always borrows someones. She loves galloping around a lot when we are on trail rides which makes me really nervous. I have plans to go on a camping trip and I believe this girl is coming along - I have said up front that she won't be riding my horses. 

As for broken fence boards - if I was a boarder I would assume it was part of the risk/cost of running a boarding stable. However, if my horse was constantly breaking fence boards (more than a one-off) I don't think it is unreasonable for the boarding stable to charge me. 

I guess its all subjective; very interesting to hear everyone's opinions and appreciate everyone weighing in.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

gottatrot said:


> What about if your horse destroys property at a boarding stable? I've run into this a lot. My horses and others will occasionally chew on boards, kick walls, break fences and gates. I've offered to pay for most of these things and have always had the barn owners turn me down. All the barn owners I've known seem to believe horses wearing away barns and fences are part of the cost of operating a barn.
> 
> However, all the fences that my horses have broken have been single time accidents rather than patterns. One horse owner at my barn was charged for fencing because her horse broke it down several times a week for awhile, and the barn owner had to add extra creative fencing lines to keep it all intact.
> 
> What if you are using a wheelbarrow or manure pick at the barn and it breaks? Should the barn owner replace it or whoever was using it?



Minnie tore down a good stretch of electric fencing, breaking all of the plastic clips along the way. My BO shrugged, and said it was part of the job sometimes. In less than 20 minutes, she had all of the broken clips replaced and the fence re-strung up. Luckily electric fencing is usually an easy fix.

When my family still had our horses in wooden fencing on our property, one of the horses chewed up the top rail like no other. If it were someone else's horse, I would require them to get a cribbing collar, or help replace all of the boards. Over the years that we had them in the wooden fencing, we had four boards come off (two of which weren't even from the horses), with four horses always in the pasture. I think for the most part, any actual broken boards are few and far in-between; usually from horses playing and accidentally kicking the fence, or getting hung up in the fence. I would accept most fencing incidents as my problem if it were on my property.

If a wheelbarrow or manure pick breaks, I think in most cases it is for the BO to replace, as it it provided for use and especially with manure picks, they weaken and break overtime. Now if you were taking the wheelbarrow down the hill for a ride, that is a whole other story... :lol:


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

This is an interesting discussion. I don’t know if I’d have thought much of it. If, like @COWCHICK77 said, I did something dumb like let a horse step on a rein, I would definitely pay for it. If something was half rotted and broke under normal use I would apologize, but I am not sure if I’d offer to pay for it. I guess I might, and I would if they asked me to, but I really wouldn’t consider it my fault and I might be annoyed if I did pay for it.

I say this probably because I wouldn’t expect someone else to pay for my tack. Even if a friend came over and decided to tie up a horse with my best bridle, I wouldn’t let her pay for it. I guess I would just take responsibility for letting that person use my tack. If they took it away from me though, borrowing it, I would expect to receive it back in the same or better condition. If returned broken or not returned at all I would still take responsibility, but I might not have the same value of said person anymore.

As far as a horse getting hurt... that one is tough! I guess I wouldn’t expect anyone to pay for the horse. Horses have accidents, and one should expect such things. That said, I guess a person should be finicky about who is using their horse, because if you allow someone to take your horse (friend in need of horse, trainer, etc) you had better trust them. It is terrible when a horse comes back in bad shape.

As far as if someone gets hurt, no I wouldn’t offer to pay. Here is where you better trust the person you put on your horse again. I don’t want to be sued, and I don’t know how that would work. I would never put a person on a horse I thought above their skill level, but things do happen I know. Even the gentlest horse can spook. If I knew a person was apt to place the blame on others, or looking for an easy way out of things, I would not let them ride. I probably wouldn’t enjoy them anyways.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@ClearDonkey I think he should have paid for the tire. Especially if she let him use it for free! His argument was that she had stored the trailer improperly, but she could have replied that he should have inspected the trailer before using it. 

@gottatrot I think in theory that you should pay for the damage your horse does to a boarding facility, and most have it in the contract, but in practice most boarding facilities seem to consider a certain amount of damage normal and they aren't going to nickel and dime you over it. I still remember when Pony ate the astrotuf off one of the jumps (classic Pony move) and the barn owner never said anything about it except to laugh.


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## redbadger (Nov 20, 2017)

If I broke someone else's tack or horse, which they had entrusted to me, I would feel obliged to help in some way. Even if I couldn't afford it (like vet care) I might offer to do something in kind as an apology. It seems courteous. Like if I noticed that someone else's horse had some sort of injury in the pasture, I'd let the barn staff know so it could get taken care of. 

As far as people injuries: riding a horse is inherently risky. I will call 911 or drive to hospital as needed. (Since I'm a paramedic, I'm willing to clean up wounds & splint ankles/arms/wrists as well, but you're still going to an ER). If you get hurt doing something foolish and extra dangerous, you'll also get a lecture on why you probably shouldn't do that again (if you're conscious). 

(I do totally understand that medical bills are a nightmare for many people and even an ER or urgent care co-pay is out of reach, so if someone really needs to go to the ER I would try to help and pool resources. I am a firm believer in not letting others die because the medical-industrial complex in the US is a cesspool of avarice.)


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

gottatrot said:


> What about if your horse destroys property at a boarding stable? I've run into this a lot. My horses and others will occasionally chew on boards, kick walls, break fences and gates. I've offered to pay for most of these things and have always had the barn owners turn me down. All the barn owners I've known seem to believe horses wearing away barns and fences are part of the cost of operating a barn.



At Isabel's first boarding barn, she apparently ate almost a whole top board of a fence separating her from a neighbor in their run-outs. I was mortified and offered to pay, but they wouldn't let me.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

It is an interesting topic and can go in many different directions. 

Even something as simple as cleaning up after your horse. It still amazes me to this day how few people actually pick up their horse's poo.


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## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

cbar said:


> It is an interesting topic and can go in many different directions.
> 
> Even something as simple as cleaning up after your horse. It still amazes me to this day how few people actually pick up their horse's poo.


Not picking up your horses poo drives me CRAZY! I swear, I'm the only boarder at my current barn that will pick up my horses' poo as soon as they do it when tied up. If my BO is tacking up with me and her horse(s) go, I will even do hers just as a common courtesy. I often come out and there are piles of poo and clumps of hair everywhere at the tacking area...clean up after yourself, dang it! I come out to the barn to ride and enjoy my horses, not clean up after other people.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I have put new tires all the way around when borrowing a trailer for a long haul and the owner wanted nothing in return. It insured short of a faulty tire or running over something that I wouldn't deal with blow outs from dry rot, endeared me to the owner and meant when I could use a short haul rather than pay for a vet call they offered their trailer without me asking.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

I'm the one who started the original post because a young person, who does not have a horse of her own, comes riding with me 2 or 3 times a week. She has broken two stirrup leathers and a rein, shrugs it off as if it is my problem. I have given her hundreds of dollars of free riding, taken her on multiple camping trips where I pay for the food, accommodations, gas, and all the horse accoutrements, taken her for many trailered trail rides. I think the least she could do is buy me new (or even used) stirrup leathers and give me a strong apology.

She's a really sweet and kind girl, a wonderful friend to my daughter, and a diligent worker. I think I am being chinchy to mind about the broken tack. It wouldn't bother me all that much except that over the years, a bunch of people have broken stirrup leathers, cheek pieces, and reins and nobody ever even offers to replace it. Two people were even rude to me, saying I ride in crappy tack and I am at fault for allowing them to ride in it. 

After giving it a lot of thought, I realize that all I really want is the OFFER to replace the tack. I'd feel so much better if they just apologized and OFFERED.

I also wanted to comment on the borrowed trailer. I think if you borrow someone's trailer to go a fair way, you should buy them something to thank them even if they don't ask for rental money. Buying them new tires is a perfect thank you for allowing you to use their trailer. And always, ALWAYS offer to chip in for gas. ALWAYS! It's stressful to haul someone else's horse, and the driver deserves compensation.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

knightrider said:


> I'm the one who started the original post because a young person, who does not have a horse of her own, comes riding with me 2 or 3 times a week. She has broken two stirrup leathers and a rein, shrugs it off as if it is my problem. I have given her hundreds of dollars of free riding, taken her on multiple camping trips where I pay for the food, accommodations, gas, and all the horse accoutrements, taken her for many trailered trail rides. I think the least she could do is buy me new (or even used) stirrup leathers and give me a strong apology.
> 
> She's a really sweet and kind girl, a wonderful friend to my daughter, and a diligent worker. I think I am being chinchy to mind about the broken tack. It wouldn't bother me all that much except that over the years, a bunch of people have broken stirrup leathers, cheek pieces, and reins and nobody ever even offers to replace it. Two people were even rude to me, saying I ride in crappy tack and I am at fault for allowing them to ride in it.
> 
> After giving it a lot of thought, I realize that all I really want is the OFFER to replace the tack. I'd feel so much better if they just apologized and OFFERED.


Can you give us the circumstances under which the tack broke? 

I'm asking because I've been riding over 50 years and only EVER had one stirrup leather break (my fault, it dry rotted and I hadn't been doing enough maintenance) and only one bridle come apart (forgot to put nail polish in the threads of the Chicago screws and of course, just as I went in to the arena, they all backed out and the bridle came apart, again my fault). 

The only time I've had a problem with loaned tack was, I loaned out my jumping saddle, almost new, and instead of keeping it in the protective bag, she left it out in the tack room and her cat clawed the seat of the saddle all to H*LL. No offer to repair was ever made, THAT p*ssed me off and I no longer loan tack to anyone.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

Both times it broke while mounting. She is a heavy person and although using a mounting block, is not exactly light on her feet.

Another teen that I used to take riding all the time broke every stirrup leather I had on my saddles. I kept trying her in different saddles because she kept breaking the stirrup leathers. She did all hers while riding. I think she put a lot of weight in her stirrups, while I put almost none, so I don't realize my stirrup leathers are wearing.

Also, to be fair, I ride every day and have been for many years, so my saddles get a lot more wear than someone who just rides an hour on weekends.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

knightrider said:


> always, ALWAYS offer to chip in for gas. ALWAYS! It's stressful to haul someone else's horse, and the driver deserves compensation.


A week in Hawaii would work for me!

I would probably never loan tack unless it was in an emergency. On the rare occasion I ride someone's horse I prefer to use the tack the horse is used to as long as it is good condition, and I would expect to replace if something happened that was of my causing or negligence.
I would not loan my trailer. I would offer to haul but not loan, and I would be very disappointed if the person did not offer to pay for gas.

100% agree with picking up the poo! Same for dogs!


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## pasomountain (Dec 19, 2018)

My BO has always offered to let me use any of her tack whenever I want--but also assumes she can use mine. So far she has only used my stuff once or twice that I know of. Not sure how much I like that idea but she was careful with it. What did pee me off was when a friend of hers "cleaned" my new bitless bridle and almost new roping reins with some kind of saddle soap I guess--not sure what exactly. Of course it darkened the leather and made them look used and the reins looked worn. She never asked me, just went ahead and did it because she just loved to clean leather. But my stuff had been new and clean and looked new and wasn't stiff--very supple and nice. So I confronted her about it and she just said oh sorry, your sister said it was ok. I asked my sis and she says I thought you wouldn't mind. Well how about somebody actually asking me next time, right??! 

As for trailering somewhere--helping pay for gas is just a given and would also help pay for tires because I'd really appreciate someone offering to let me use their rig.

I always clean up all poop in the stalls/aisleway and paddock area around the barn. And take down spider webs, pull weeds, put things away properly, etc., etc. Keeps the BO happy and that's a good thing.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

Yah, the paying for gas really irks me as that is the one that happens to me most often. I sometimes feel like I am just being cheap or something in expecting the other person to help pay for fuel. But honestly, it would be the first thing I'd offer if someone was trailering my horse. Perhaps they think their company is enough for payment? 

I have a planned camping trip with the horses coming up in mid-August. There are a couple girls coming that don't have horses, so I am bringing 2 of mine. Now, it is kind of a good scenario for me b/c both of my horses will get miles put on. In order to be prepared for the trip I need to buy extra travel panels for the horses as well as pay to get shoes put on the extra horse. The panels are no biggie as i'd use them around our acreage for something anyway. But, if it were me and I was getting to use a free horse all weekend I would maybe offer to pay for a portion of the shoeing or something?? Is that unrealistic? I just know that if I were showing up and everything was ready for me to enjoy a great weekend riding someone else's horse, I would feel like I should pitch in or show my gratitude somehow.
@knightrider, your scenario would really bother me as it sounds like you've done a lot for this girl. That is a tough one as it doesn't sound like this is the type of person you just want to cut-off of riding. It might be worth having a conversation with her about (as awkward as that might be).


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## redbadger (Nov 20, 2017)

How's that old hippie phrase go? "Cash, grass, or a**, no one rides for free"? Chipping in for gas money just seems like good etiquette.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cbar said:


> Yah, the paying for gas really irks me as that is the one that happens to me most often. I sometimes feel like I am just being cheap or something in expecting the other person to help pay for fuel. But honestly, it would be the first thing I'd offer if someone was trailering my horse. Perhaps they think their company is enough for payment?
> 
> I have a planned camping trip with the horses coming up in mid-August. There are a couple girls coming that don't have horses, so I am bringing 2 of mine. Now, it is kind of a good scenario for me b/c both of my horses will get miles put on. In order to be prepared for the trip I need to buy extra travel panels for the horses as well as pay to get shoes put on the extra horse. The panels are no biggie as i'd use them around our acreage for something anyway. But, if it were me and I was getting to use a free horse all weekend I would maybe offer to pay for a portion of the shoeing or something?? Is that unrealistic? I just know that if I were showing up and everything was ready for me to enjoy a great weekend riding someone else's horse, I would feel like I should pitch in or show my gratitude somehow.


#1 Gas for hauling - It's up to you (or me, whoever is hauling) to set the tone for what's expected. If someone says, "I'm on your way, could you swing by and pick us up?", my answer is, "Yes, sure, I'll be there at....... be ready. I'm hauling so and so's horse too, so you 2 can split the gas. You can buy me lunch after.". I split the gas with the 2 hitchhikers, it's my trailer, my truck, my brakes, my wear and tear and my season pass that gets us in to where ever we're going. Oh, and me that cleans said truck and trailer at the end of the day. I make sure I'm full when we start and just before I drop off the first one, I fill up. And we all normally go out for lunch when we're done riding. Pretty cheap day. 

#2 No, I would not expect someone to pay for ANY of the routine maintenance on my horses. If you choose to shoe the extra horse, that's up to you. You could buy soft ride boots and use them over and over. I would expect them to pitch in on any fees for camping, food, drinks, and fuel, you're hauling the horse for them, but only if you say so up front. If you say something like, "We're going horse camping at Robber's Cave next weekend, would you like to come and ride ole Dobbin?", if the answer is yes, then I'd say, "You will split 1/2 the cost of gas, camping fees are $XX and you can split the grocery bill with 4 of us (or however you do it).". That way it's all covered and you're not holding the bag for an extra mouth.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

@knightrider FWIW if my daughter were this girl, and you took her camping, etc., I would certainly offer to pay her share of EVERYTHING. But if I made the offer to one of my daughter's friends, I wouldn't expect her parents to offer to pay. I mean, they might or they might not. I think they could reasonably assume that if I invited her, then she was my guest, and no payment was necessary.

If someone kept breaking my tack, I think I'd have a talk with them. You say this is a young person. I don't know how young, exactly, but a lot of teens can be completely oblivious about things like this. Like, she might not put it together that she keeps breaking your tack and you're not happy about it. Could you suggest that she supply her own stirrup leathers? Like, "I don't know what the problem is, but my stirrup leathers tend to break when you use them. I feel like it might be a good idea for you to buy your own and bring them next time." You could even add, "I am concerned because broken stirrup leathers could lead to a dangerous situation, and I don't want to have caused that situation." If you really wanted a strong apology, you'd probably have to be even more direct than that. And since she is your daughter's friend, it's probably not worth it. I would think.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

@ACinATX , what a great suggestion! In another situation, I will certainly try saying that. In this situation, probably can't. 

It was one of those situations where she was invited just once, because for a short two week period, I happened to have an extra horse staying with me. Then another horse started living here, it was a two shot deal. Then my daughter started being close friends, then my daughter only would ride if this young person came along, then . . . we got another horse, then . . . 

The bottom line is the reason why this young person doesn't have a horse is because her family has no money. She would never get all the exciting riding experiences if I did not take her. In fact, she wouldn't ride at all . . . and it means the world to her.

We are far from rich (who is, when you have 4 horses??!!), but children grow up and move away. It's just a window of opportunity right now, and in a few years will pass. I shouldn't be so grumpy. And, as I said, I figured out that what I really wanted was the OFFER to pay, not the actual payment.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

1. Tack question. Depends on the item and how it got torn up. If it's a latigo, it'll show signs of wear and if I didn't check it before cinching up, that's on me, but I'm not replacing the tie strap. If it's a set of split reins in good repair and I leave them down so the horse steps on them and sets back... I'm still not replacing the reins. I'll fix them - not replacing them. If it's a saddle in good repair and not a trash saddle we're using for that first saddling up, and I'm jacking around and get the horse upset and it flips over, breaks the tree... and I survive by some miracle, I owe someone a saddle.


2. Yes, I'm going to offer to help with a horse that gets hurt while I'm riding it, while it's in my care, in my trailer, or on my place. 



3. No to the doctor's bills. You ride at your own risk and you are around horses at your own risk. I warn people to not get around, say, Supes, at the trough because he's food dominate. I will NOT tolerate it out of him, and he knows it, but other people (Daughter's ex, my grandbaby's daddy) have been known to ignore my warning, walk out there, get between Supes and a horse he's about to kick... while he's wearing shoes on his back feet... and nearly got their arm broken. It split the skin the bone, Ex-BF had to have it held together with butterflies, then stitches. He knew better. He also had insurance and an ER bill by the end of the day.


Pet Peeve: NOTHING AGGRAVATES ME MORE than to let someone borrow a saddle or a bridle and reins, a saddle pad, only to find them tossed in my tack room without a bit of care, the latigo all slung around on the floor rather than looped nice and tidy around the D, and the headstall just... thrown down on the floor, and the saddle pad, wet... folded together... laying on the workbench instead of open, horse-side up to the sun to dry. 



RAGE.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

@knightrider, I understand your dilemma, and think I also would have just wanted the offer of replacing things, just so the person demonstrated they understood the cost and issue they put you through. 

This makes me also wonder what other types of things besides "return undamaged" others expect when people use their tack and etc. 

One thing I keep in mind is that if I leave my tack at a barn with many boarders, I expect that someone there might use it and/or break it. My personal rule is to not leave anything that I am very attached to or is very valuable or fragile. 

I don't expect that anyone else should let me use their things. That being said, in certain situations I have borrowed something, but I try to ask the person by text if I can. Examples are when someone showed up to ride with a big horse and their saddle didn't fit (they hadn't ridden in awhile). My saddle fit the horse, but I didn't have a cinch long enough so borrowed one that was in the tack room even though I didn't know who it belonged to. Would that kind of thing bother most people?

I'm guessing most people have borrowed a halter when a horse got loose and they just grabbed the nearest one. Or a lead rope. 

Certain things I believe are just too tempting, like I don't ever leave a bag of carrots and expect other people to not give one or two to their horses. However, I don't expect to come back the next day and find that someone fed out the entire bag. 

I've had some people who have allowed me to use anything of theirs that I want to. In those cases, I believe in returning things just as they were found. If the person puts their saddle pad upside down on top of the saddle, I do that. If they leave the pad all attached underneath the saddle, I do that. I always put the stirrups back to their original length, although sometimes I have forgotten where they were and made a guess. But then I tell the saddle owner that I might have made the length wrong so they should check before they ride. 

That being said, I have one friend who I would never try to put her things back the way she does, because it is too complicated. She has her bridles buckled up in a certain way with the reins before putting them on the hooks, and I think her saddle pads might be sorted by color or size. 

Another friend has mini horses and I've tried very hard to put her harnesses back in the bags the way she likes them but I always get something wrong. It's not that simple.









I guess it's like when you pick up a shirt at the store and unfold it, and then realize you'll never get it folded back the way it was.


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## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

gottatrot said:


> I always put the stirrups back to their original length, although sometimes I have forgotten where they were and made a guess. But then I tell the saddle owner that I might have made the length wrong so they should check before they ride.


Oohhhh LORD. JC who rides with us and has helped us starting Oops... she's made a barrel horse out of my old Homer Simpson of Equines, Leroy. He actually found a job he likes... but. She was looking for a barrel saddle and liked an SRS I had for sale. She gets the family discount, so came to me first.

I let her borrow it - see how you like it, how it fits him, etc etc etc.

She brought it back the next day, stirrups were too long for her, even in the last hole. ???? Que? You're 5'8"?

I keep forgetting she rides with her stirrups nearly horse-jockey short.

Anyway, she hadn't let them back out, and this weekend I took it along as a spare for the camping trip. B took one look at them and went to muttering and letting them out. LOL

She borrowed my regular rider saddle one time too, took them up all the way... and didn't tell me, and I didn't know it. Threw it on Trigger... and he's just not a big horse, so super short stirrups don't look weird on him, and I didn't think about it at. all.

Couldn't get my foot up in the stirrup. Thought, ****. I'm getting old, my knee won't cooperate.... Grab my knee cram my foot in the stirrup... hop hop UP... OMG WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME! I can't get off the ground with my usual momentum! 

Try again... fail.

What the HEE HAW SAM HELL is going on!?

JC is sitting on her horse and shyly says: Oh. Haha. Yeah. I... kinda forgot to tell you - they're up as short as they'll go.

:|

Annnd I ride in the second to last/longest hole.

GIRL. PUT my stirrups back, or at least make a guess! I didn't say that, but I thought it. 

I mean, sure, I should have noticed right off, but for whatever reason that day, it never crossed my mind.


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