# Is it possible for a bay to change to grey at 4 years?



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

What colors were her sire and dam? One of them would have to be grey in order for her to be grey. 

Greys start the greying process at any time during their life and progress at different rates. 

Do you have pictures of her?
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## Lady T (Nov 4, 2014)

Her sire was bay. I don't know about her dam- have been trying to find out. I don't have any photographs on this device. The grey is just around her legs and had literally appeared in the last few weeks! Other than the grey around the legs she is very bay.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

what do you mean by and ID mare and by around her legs ? in the armpits ? knees ? hocks? pastern / fetlocks?
could it have been dye and it is wearing off ? coming in with winter hair ? just the ends ? 
could it be dirty white ?


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

stevenson said:


> what do you mean by and ID mare and by around her legs ?


I'm guessing it's short for Irish Draught!
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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

You can also get white hairs to appear on non grey horses if there is damage caused by external factors. Improperly wrapped legs which cause pressure points and continually rub, poorly fitting saddles can also create white hairs where there are pressure points on the withers and back.


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

The name Silver Jasper gave it away for me, I Googled him and sure enough he's grey. https://www.google.com/#q=silver+jasper+stallion

If your horse has grey genes she could grey out starting anytime, and rather quickly (or not) and look almost white (but still technically grey) in years to come.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

several years ago a friend of mine had a buckskin overo mare she sold to Netherlands as a 4 yr old. Well apparently the next spring she shed out GREY:shock: My friend was surprised to say least,but mare did have grey in her background. She even got to see pictures of mare after & she was no doubt grey as grey could be!! . I;m sure person who bought her wasn't to impressed by that


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Just so we are clear, it doesn't matter if a horse has a grey ancestor two or three generations back. In order for the horse in question to be grey, one of the parents MUST be grey. Grey doesn't hide (unless it's on a cremello or perlino, but then it's not really hiding, it's just difficult to see) and it doesn't skip generations.
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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

In most cases by time they are yearling you will have seen tell tale signs if horse is going to grey. I currently have 2 greys ,knew from birth they would be. They are 1/2 siblings but the greying process has been different for 2 of them. My filly shed out as weanling very grey,her older brother { now 6yrs } not looking very grey till a couple years old,just last year he started to dapple out looking more grey.


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Just so we are clear, it doesn't matter if a horse has a grey ancestor two or three generations back. In order for the horse in question to be grey, one of the parents MUST be grey. Grey doesn't hide (unless it's on a cremello or perlino, but then it's not really hiding, it's just difficult to see) and it doesn't skip generations.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't completely know this but I'd bet the dam was grey...that's what I was getting at as the OP didn't know the color of the dam.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Epona, I wasn't singling anyone out with that statement. Just making sure everyone was on the same page in case someone stumbled upon this thread out in the interwebz researching if their horse was or could be a grey, they didn't start thinking that just because Junior's third great-grand sire was a grey, that Junior could go grey. :lol:

And you're right, there is a good chance that the dam was grey. Pics of the OP's horse would be wicked helpful right about now. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## squirrelfood (Mar 29, 2014)

Grey starts at the head and works back. It does NOT start on the legs and work up. Legs are usually the last to go.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

What SF said was certainly true for my Arabian mare. Progression to grey from a "bay" start:

At birth:











At age two:




















At age six:




















At age 10:











At age 27:










You can click on these photos to enlarge to see things up close.

Intermediate to the photos of her at six and ten was a stage where her coat had greyed out like in the ridden photo, but her mane and tail were still jet black.

My mare was a heterozygous grey - one grey gene, one bay gene - and greyed out slowly. Homozygous greys (two grey genes) generally grey out totally or near-totally by maturity.

If one of the parents is a homozygous grey and the other is not grey, the offspring will get one grey gene by default and as grey is a dominant characteristic, will be a (heterozygous) grey. If one of the parents is a heterozygous grey and the other is not grey, the chances of offsping getting a grey gene are 50%.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm not sure if the "homozygous grey out faster" thing has been proven true yet. It's definitely a common theory though and one that makes sense to me.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> I'm not sure if the "homozygous grey out faster" thing has been proven true yet. It's definitely a common theory though and one that makes sense to me.


It is a trend though, homozygous greys tend to grey out at a much faster pace. Another trend is that flea bitten greys tend to be heterozygous grey. Trends are not always rules though.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You need to look at the colouring of her sire and dam.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

SunnyDraco said:


> It is a trend though, homozygous greys tend to grey out at a much faster pace. Another trend is that flea bitten greys tend to be heterozygous grey. Trends are not always rules though.


What is even faster is grey + LP.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Yogiwick said:


> I'm not sure if the "homozygous grey out faster" thing has been proven true yet. It's definitely a common theory though and one that makes sense to me.


Proven true for a long time, Yogiwick. In genetics textbooks for many decades and borne out by the experience of the Arabian breeders I know as well - they breed a lot of greys and generally know how many grey genes are being carried.


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## Remali (Jul 22, 2008)

EponaLynn said:


> The name Silver Jasper gave it away for me, I Googled him and sure enough he's grey. https://www.google.com/#q=silver+jasper+stallion
> 
> If your horse has grey genes she could grey out starting anytime, and rather quickly (or not) and look almost white (but still technically grey) in years to come.


One parent would still need to be a grey though.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Judging by the progeny from Silver Jasper, it looks like he was homozygous for grey as the majority of his foals are listed as grey or roan. And we all know a lot of people think their greys are roan haha. Too bad we didn't know the dams name.


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## CarrieS (Nov 8, 2014)

Wish my gelding would grey-out. Both his dam and site were greys, and he popped out as a red dun, haha.


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## Lady T (Nov 4, 2014)

Many thanks to you all. Very interesting Ã°ÂŸÂ˜Â„


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

SueC i did notice your grey mare is a flea bit grey. My 33 yr old Tb is flea bit rose, as well as a 20 yr old Arab mare we have. The only time mine are 'white' is in winter. 
my Roan 1/4 gelding is basically grey light body dark mane and tail. ( I was not told his dam was grey until he was 3, and he slowly lost his roan ) I did not want a grey. I tired of dealing with the tumors.


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Not quite getting your point there, Stevenson: A flea-bitten grey is still a grey, like a dappled grey is still a grey, etc. Perhaps you have to explain this one to me!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Your roan isn't roan then....

Grey's are grey no matter what shade.

I assume you're talking about a QH? If you don't want a grey so some research, grey and roan do NOT look the same.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

just the different color of greys. the dapples, flea bit, and then the ones that are 'white'
My 1/4 gelding was registered as Roan . I was not told he had a grey parent until years after he was registered. And as a baby he was a Dark dark red roan and did not start to grey out until age 3-4 . There are still 1/4 people whom still call him a roan. 
It was just a point that a horse can have papers as roan and actually be grey. 
I did not research the parents color, as at the time I really did not care. We had to send dna on all the colts that year, as my bros in law, made a mistake on one colts papers, so we had the dna done on all 3 . and we also sent photos, so if they did not like the markings or color selection, they could have corrected it. ( all by the same sire a red dun, and no red dun in the bunch)


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

The first sign my colt was going gray was the white at the root of his tail. Then his face marking started getting "roany." 

Well, actually the first sign was that he was born an adult looking color. But he didn't have a single white eyelash or white on his face (other than his star) when he was born. For the longest time he just looked bay with a white in his tail.

Now, finally, in his 4 yr old year, he is starting to look more like a gray in photos. He's a slow grayer for sure, but I'm hoping he will dapple out. 

His mom is gray, his sire sorrel. 

I wish I could have met his full brother. I was told he was blue roan, but knowing what I know now, I'm sure he was a gray too. 

Anyway, this is my guy at age 4 this past summer. A hint of dapples to come I hope. :lol: And as a foal for comparison.


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