# the politics in showing (halter AQHA)



## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

That is spectacular!!!

I went to the World Paint Horse show and hung out with the judges one year... and i talked to people leaving the ring after winning, and i asked them what their horses do.. and they said "Nothing. We dont ride them or train them to ride. All they do is Halter, until they are too old to do it anymore or we find a better horse"

Yikes...

Im so glad that they made that new rule!! That is WONDERFUL!! Hopefully people wont take this rule the wrong way, continue to raise them as cows, then bute them up really good and ride them. Hopefully they will raise them PROPERLY so they can do something more in their lifetime rather than just exist.

All horses need a job, they thrive off of it. They go insane if they have no purpose.

Thank you so much for posting this sweetie!!


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

I was very excited about it also, I thought it was going to be put into effect in 07 but maybe it is next year!! I went to a local show with my mare who I had been successfull in 4-h and open shows with, but not at this breed show, the mare next to me was around 15 hh and WIDE! Her veins in her legs were enormous and the muscle was so bulky she looked like she couldn't even move. I felt so bad for her... 

I don't think you will ever stop people from their greed, but it might change the judges' opinion of what is nice to look at and what is not. Or at least that is my hope


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

I totally agree with you amanda....

horses are not breed to all look like suffolk punches....LOL.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

you crack me up


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

here is a suffolk punch









(oh my heck its even smaller boned then the quarter horse below!)

here is a quarter horse, halter!










*Puke* I dont think it makes the horse attractive at all!


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

AAAACCCCKKKKK!!!!! what the heck did they do to that horse!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :shock: How can it move??


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

I never was on the inside on the halter showing so I would have to google it! I knew someone who bought a weanling and fed him omolene 300 and also weight gain and corn oil, and hardly worked him. He developed a very bad joint problem and sometimes they swell up and are very painful for him.


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

so overall friesian mirror, it is impossible for them to move.....


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

WHY do people feel like they have to do things like that? Dont they realize that the horse is in pain? Or VERY uncomfotable??? I just dont think that winning a show is THAT *@$% important! Errrrrrrr.. :evil:


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

calm down......the new rule will hopefully be comeing into place.


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

I hope so, and soon...*deep breath, deep breath*


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

compliments of google: www.angelfire.com

just a great example of what happens after a few years![/img]


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

*puke*

good job for giving credit to the site......


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

ALL FOR A SHOW. The show's are supposed to be fun, and a great thing to do with your horse.You learn alot of things from showing, you learn to be a team(not that thats the only way). NOT HARM THEM SO YOU CAN WIN!!! *deep breath...* Where's my paper bag?!?!


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Thought you would like that! Yes I saw that picture and I wondered how much pain he feels everyday. Those people are still standing him for stud.


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

I swear a vein just popped. Errrrr :evil: I dont understand HOW someone can do that? It's a good thing I dont know where they live....heh heh heh.....


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Yes it is all for show. I looked at a yearling class at an AQHA show and they were all bigger than my aged horses! I hope they really crack down on everything! People will always abuse the system. I think that if any horse looks like that, then there should be a probation for the owner/ person who is showing the horse. A second offence should result in being banned from all breed shows. This will stop them from making money of off these horses.


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

I totally agree, I hope this will stop them. Those horses hurt, they cant move. Dont the owners see that? I dont think that YEARLINGS should be bigger then older horses.


off the topic for a second...
How do we go about do that linking thing?


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

GRRRRRRRRRRRR....friesian mirror, I will not be a hypocrite sence i told you to calm down a while ago

counting backwards....

"10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1." much better.


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

Wanna borrow my paper bag?


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

I was so upset about it until I heard about this new rule. Its around $250 for small breed shows and if the owners have to pay another $250 to ride an unrideable horse, they might think twice. Or they might ride the horse regardless. :twisted:


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

I really hope that they get that rule up and working, and maybe we wont see so many horses like this. I could NEVER do that to my little girl....I haven't even given my mom the money yet and I love her  Only known her for a week.

How can they say that they love their horses?


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

do you think you could find an article on this rule? I can if you cant, but I got to go to bed now.


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

Oh I would love your paper bag Friesian mirror! Thanks!


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

Night, Barnrat. It's been nice chattin' with ya!


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

I looked on AQHA but probably wasnt looking in the right spot, I just sent an email regarding this so I will post it when I recieve an answer back!


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## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

Barnrat, i had that same picture of the buckskin stallion, i was literally sick when i saw how "muscled" he was..

Thats so unhealthy... =/


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

That horse was bigger then the suffolk punch, suffolk punches are suppose to be big like that! :roll:


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

Sarah (Raini) just showed me this grand champion horse....prepare to be scared
[url]http://www.bertonqh.com/sir_cool_skip_page2a.htm[/url]

There was a thread on Ultimate Horse Board about this subject.....


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

:shock: That's HORRIBLE!!! he look's worse then the buckskin!!!
@#$%#[email protected]#$#!!!!!!!! I can't belive someone would that, he looks awful!!! And I'm sure he would look great if he were normal sized... :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

no kidding.....worse is that he is a YEARLING in that picture!!!!


*PUKE!!!!*


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## Friesian Mirror (Jan 11, 2007)

x_x *dies*


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

One of the nicest and one of the most beautiful horses I've ever been around *was *an AQHA World Champion. I really loved him and he was treated better then most human beings. Looks in pictures can at times be deceiving, The Money Broker is so much more beautiful in person.


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

Do you not think it is cruel how big they get...it is importent for a horse to be properly excersized.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

I have seen what wins at the LOCAL AQHA shows, and I think that some people are taking it way too far. Not all people are making their horses look like COWS. Which is what the buckskin and the bay looked like. That is not my idea of a horse that could ever be athletic enough to ride. That bay was a yearling did you say? I do have to ask myself what exactly did they do to that horse. Hurray for the AQHA for cracking down. By the way AQHA is going to stop letting Impressive bred horses hypp n/h horses into the registry. Guess they have been getting a lot of complaints from honest horse people. :lol:


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

Thats good. We have a horse at our barn with impressive breeding, but because she is 6 I dont think she has hypp....


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP) is an inherited disease that leads to uncontrolled muscle twitching or profound muscle weakness, and in severe cases, may lead to collapse and/or death.

â€¢ HYPP is listed as a genetic defect in AQHA's rules, along with Parrot Mouth and Cryptorchid conditions.

â€¢ To date, HYPP only has been traced to descendants of IMPRESSIVE, #0767246.

â€¢ Having negative (N/N) results on file may prevent a horse's offspring from being tested.





Possible results of HYPP testing are N/N, N/H and H/H.
HYPP is inherited as a dominant trait, which means a heterozygous (N/H) stallion or mare bred to a normal (N/N) horse will result in approximately half of the offspring being affected and half being normal. The rare homozygote (H/H) usually is severely affected with the disease and will pass the gene to its offspring 100 percent of the time.


This information can be found at http://www.aqha.com/association/registration/hypp.html


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

Hypp can be pretty scary :shock:


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

Just because I love one horse doesn't mean I promote over-bulking.

There are still some that do wonderful with well thought out breeding, proper exercise and wonderful care. These were all things the Money Broker had. He was tall, made a huge impression and was near perfect conformation versus insane bulkiness - thus, rightfuly being a WChampion. He is an older WChampion, times do change through out the years, it seems. I respect Money's breeder, boarded at his private stud farm for years and am fully aware of the fairness he gave to each stud.


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## savepitbulls (Jan 2, 2007)

I am soooo glad to hear about this new rule that AQHA is going to put into effect. FINALLY! That's one of the reasons I stopped showing on the AQHA circuit. That's the best thing I've heard from them in a loooong time :lol: 

You're right N/H horses need to not only need to stop being shown and registered, but they need to stop being BRED altogether. Many of them are wonderful horses with no outward signs but its heartbreaking to see the ones that do show signs of the disease. Its simply not fair to the horses.


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

what can I say, some are only in it for the money...They get these GREAT ideas about "get money quick" And dont even care about the horse....

Hurray for those that love Horses!


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

delete.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

negative/ negative for Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP)


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/the+money+broker
Pedigree^^

I doubt he carries the defect and traits considering his offspring, which can also be looked up on the site above. I say this because I am 99 percent sure, but 1 percent uncertain of passing the HYPP disease.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

I looked him up before I left and saw this on www.qhd.com 


The Money Broker
2433416; 1986; Sorrel; Height: 16.1; *N/N;* (Mr Sonny Money x Miss Commonwealth);


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

*shrug* I'm surprised, but I'm not really sure what that really proves. 
Edited to delete the rest.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Please refer to www.qhd.com for any questions you have. This portion that was copied was not altered out cut in any way.

Thank you


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Stallion Record

The Money Broker
2433416; 1986; Sorrel; Height: 16.1; N/N; (Mr Sonny Money x Miss Commonwealth);
Stallion Show Record
World Champion
Reserve World Champion
Top Ten World Show
Superior Halter
ROM Halter
World Show Qualifier

Stallion Offspring Record
World Champion Offspring
Reserve World Champion Offspring
Superior Halter Offspring
Superior Performance Offspring
AQHA Champion Offspring
ROM Halter Offspring
ROM Performance Offspring
Halter Money-earners
Halter Point Earners
Performance Point Earners

Stallion Specialties: Halter, Performance

Stallion Info: Breeding Fee: $2,000; Shipped Semen;

Location: Cliff Keesee Stallion Services; Cliff Keesee; Bluff City, TN; 37618; 423-538-8113;

Owner Info: Cliff Keesee; 423-341-4600; 



this is all of the information on his page, I will also provide the link just incase. :roll: 


http://www.qhd.com/horse/stallion.asp?id=253


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## horsecrazy15 (Dec 26, 2006)

to be honest even though i browse on the internet, ive never really come across the quartre horse halter, but i looked them up on google and they look so.... i can't even describe i mean what do people do to them to make them look like that? its sickning! plz reply im intreged


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

"Espirit d'Escalier"... reminds me of this situation.

Somethings just aren't worth the miscommunication.

delete.


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

delete.


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## savepitbulls (Jan 2, 2007)

Wow things sure did heat up in here fast.  Here's my opinion on halter horses in general. Some are way overdone, but most are beautifully bred, raised and shown. The responsible breeders are the ones whose horses are sound and although they may not be riding horses, they have excellent body structure despite their bulk. If they are healthy and sound, then I personally see no problem with bulkier-than-normal horses. I think the problems lie with the breeders that over breed, over feed and over bulk their horses. A good eye can tell the difference...

As for the HYPP, don't think think double postitive horses or N/H horses should be used for breeding. HYPP is a dibilitating disease and in every species, regardless of their purpose, breeders should be selecting the _best_ animals for production. HYPP is something that could probably have been far more controlled than it is now simply by not breeding H/H and N/H horses.


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

Actually savethepitbulls, I found this to help:
"Normal (N/N) offspring safely can be bred, without fear of HYPP being inherited. Selective breeding to normal (N/N) horses could entirely eliminate HYPP disease. As HYPP is inherited as a dominant condition, it can and is being spread to other breeds. It is to everyone's benefit to take the necessary steps to selectively breed HYPP out of existence before it becomes so widespread that this is impossible. "
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/~lvmillon/hypp/hypp_facts.html

In my opinion, the genetic disease was carried because breeders believe they _were _breeding to the best at the time. It will now take very selective and careful breeding to eliminate HYPP all together, but we all know, this is close to impossible with current breeders.  So selective, I fear even higher percentage of imbreeding as well.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

oh my gosh, sorry I took what you said about editing wrong. I was just curious if he was n/n because I saw it on the website , and I figured since you knew him you would know just curious!!! I never once stated that you were being rude. I was just curious why you brought up the money broker when we were talking about bulked up show horses that looked gross. So how does that have anything to do with what WE were talking about. I originally googled him to simply see a picture, but they didn't have any. I did talk about HYPP horses because many of them are halter horses, when you had mentioned the money broker I ran across the hypp information. So that answers the question of how that pertains to the subject matter. I do not hold grudges Kristy it's so odd that you would think that I am that horrible to think that. I never attacked the horse I just asked a question, I am a good enough person to apologize if that offended you. I never once said he was bad, ugly, horrible, called him any names. Or ever assumed anything I was just asking a question Thank you so much Kristy for your imput on this subject. :lol:


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

ok everyone sorry about that let's continue on this subject and discuss halter horses. 


NEW REGISTRATION RULE COULD AFFECT CERTAIN OFFSPRING BORN IN 2007

As the breeding season enters its busiest time, owners and lessees of mares and stallions should be reminded of AQHA Rule 205(c)(3), which first appeared in the 2005 AQHA Official Handbook of Rules and Regulations. That rule concerns descendants of the stallion Impresssive.

Rule 205(c)(3) states: â€œEffective with foals born on or after January 1, 2007, all descendants of the stallion Impressive, AQHA registration number 0767246, shall be required to be parentage verified and HYPP tested, subject to the conditions in [Rule] 205(c)(2). Any foal testing homozygous positive for HYPP (H/H) will not be eligible for registration with AQHA.â€


http://www.halterhorsecentral.com/news.htm

YAY!!! This should prevent many horses from suffering!


I was mistaken about the new rule in halter. They added a class called "performance halter" to not only promote the horses from being shown in a riding class, but to give horse owners a fair chance in both classes. The standard for what a halter horse should look like may change after a couple years with the performance halter class. 


this information can be found at:
http://www.meqha.org/Performance Halter Ruling.pdf


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## horsesgalore (Jan 25, 2007)

hey I am new here! I just wanted to say that this is awesome and I think that this should change a lot in showing. I am way confused with the whole hypp thing. I thought it was bad to have the gene altogether! I thought that someone got a little too flustered!!!!! :?


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Welcome *horsesgalore*!! Thanks for the comment. Hypp is bad either way but h/h and n/h are going to be restricted. (I try not to fight fire with fire) :wink:


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

kristy said:


> Also,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just noticed this post! I believe that this is very disrespectful, I have never posted to hurt your feelings or make you feel stupid. This post really proved something to me and I thank you for that.


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

delete.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Lets stick to the topic in general, I will not continue to be attacked by you. 

THE POLITICS OF HALTER SHOWING:


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

Umm.. I'm not attacking you. I want to stick to the topic but I think it's important for you to understand that I'm not attacking you. 

Anyway.

What is everyone's idea of an ideal halter horse? Any examples? We've discussed what we don't approve of.


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## Gammelquarterhorses (Dec 30, 2006)

Gammelquarterhorses said:


> ok everyone sorry about that let's continue on this subject and discuss halter horses.
> 
> 
> NEW REGISTRATION RULE COULD AFFECT CERTAIN OFFSPRING BORN IN 2007
> ...



I know many of you were waiting for AQHA to email me back about the new rules. 

Do you think that the second rule will help? Or will the problem continue?


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## sparky (Dec 14, 2006)

i have temporarily locked this topic, so you all can have some time to calm down.


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## savepitbulls (Jan 2, 2007)

kristy said:


> Actually savethepitbulls, I found this to help:
> "Normal (N/N) offspring safely can be bred, without fear of HYPP being inherited. Selective breeding to normal (N/N) horses could entirely eliminate HYPP disease. As HYPP is inherited as a dominant condition, it can and is being spread to other breeds. It is to everyone's benefit to take the necessary steps to selectively breed HYPP out of existence before it becomes so widespread that this is impossible. "
> http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/~lvmillon/hypp/hypp_facts.html
> 
> In my opinion, the genetic disease was carried because breeders believe they _were _breeding to the best at the time. It will now take very selective and careful breeding to eliminate HYPP all together, but we all know, this is close to impossible with current breeders.  So selective, I fear even higher percentage of imbreeding as well.


I agree. I see no problem with breeding N/N horses because there's no risk of passing on the HYPP gene. That's why I said N/H and H/H horses shouldn't be bred.


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## barnrat (Jan 1, 2007)

my ideal halter horse would be a horse where you can ride them as well....I guess thats called performance halter? I find this to take care of overly bulky horses.


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## Skippy! (Dec 18, 2006)

Gammel, so long as they still allow N/H horses to apply, horses will still suffer, and that body type will still be winning with force in the show ring =/ Once they stop allowing N/H to show, i'll be really jazzed, then we can get back to basics with QH showing.. hopefully


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## kristy (Dec 8, 2006)

Although I do not support any type of genetic disease, bulk does not always equate to an inability to perform. I've seen some over bulked horses do quite well. I do, however, prefer my horses to be more delicate. 

The question that comes to my mind is- Is this truly different? These horses are bred for a certain purpose. Assuming no health problems are involved, is this any different from breeding a warmblood designed for dressage? Take Quarterback, for example. Look at his conformation and gaits- few horses I have seen with these gaits. Why? Genetics, precise breeding, and evolving a breed to 'perfection.' These gaits are not 'normal' and typical, but more so man made. These halter horses have been designed to have significant muscle mass for a different purpose, but is it really fair to descriminate only against the halter horse as opposed to others? 

Like I said, assuming they are in good health. Just something to think about.


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