# fairly new horse is now TESTING me!



## teakwood (Aug 20, 2014)

So.. It's been about 6 or 7 months since I've had this Arab mare now. She's 10 years old. When I first got her, she was great. She still is but she is now TESTING me big time! A bit of history.... After I first got her, I rode her for a couple of months and everything was great. Then she started to ear pin and just not right - even just at home. But she wasn't moving out freely under saddle. I got the chiropractor out and she was out in several places including rotated ribs. So that was the culprit of pain then. Did some SLOW saddle work after that. Chiro. saw her again 4 weeks after the first adjustment and everything held really well. 
Haven't been able to ride the past few weeks because of rain and slick trails. Finally got to get out today. Beautiful day but brisk out and breezy. We thought we would have some GO in our horses today and we did. Nothing bad, just FULL of energy. 
When I was at home (before we loaded up in the trailer to get to the trails) I was brushing my mare and she pinned her ears at me, turning her head as if to say, STOP IT. 
My husband was brushing his mare and he said, "there's nothing wrong with her (health wise), just tell her to knock it off and bump her nose if she offers to bite. She just doesn't want to be messed with." 
I backed off and my husband came over to brush her and she did it once and he said, "AH!!!! NO! and just waved his hand towards her nose and she never did it again." OK then... she's testing!!
We get to the trail, unload, I start to brush her and she started it up again. This time I told her NO and kept it up but reprimanded her when she tried again. My husband came over and she never tried it with him. GREAT  So, somehow she respects him but me... not so much. 
We went on our ride and trotted going out. Get some energy out. She did great and loved being out. A little high strung but she never does anything bad like buck or anything. She has always LOVED going out and hates going back to the trailer so going back, she usually slows up. 
She has been trying to grab grass on my last several rides and I will admit, I have allowed it. I KNOW... BAD on me!!! So, today, I worked on not allowing it UNLESS we are stopped and then I lay my hand on her neck and say, "eat". She tried her best off and on through out the ride tho. But she's pretty easy to keep moving. She doesn't try to over power or throw her head down.
We head back on the trail towards the trailer and she knows it and starts to slow way down (as usual). I wanted to trot a little and she didn't. I asked her to and she did but slow. So as I was posting, I'd lay my calves on her sides asking her to keep trotting. She layed her ears back and turned her head to attempt to bite my leg!!! Did NOT see that one coming!!! That's a new one. My husband saw it since he was behind me and he said, "she just doesn't want to do what you are asking - next time, let her have a foot in her mouth!"
So what do you guys think?? It's not a pain issue. When she was on her favorite part of the trail, she was all about trotting, ears forward, PLENTY of impulsion! I had to ask her to walk when I wanted to stop trotting. She did but it took a few half halts.
When we got back to the trailer, I untacked her, brushed her. And there was NO ear pinning. Un tied her and she started pushing me around on the ground. So (I have not done this with her before because there was no need to) then I made her listen to me -- MOVE YOUR FEET - disengage that hind end - both sides. And she did! Back up!, move those rear feet to the left, then right, back up...... ok. I gave her a pat on the head and went to load her and she jumped right in and stood there - quiet as a mouse. I usually have to ASK her to load up. 
Sounds like a respect thing? Testing me now? 
I don't think she's a fighter like my last horse (my morgan gelding). I'm a tiny hesitant with this mare because I'm still getting to know what she's about. but I'm about 99% sure she isn't going to unload me or do something really bad. Don't know yet. 
I sold my morgan because he did FIGHT me. He bucked me off several times and when it came to trail work and he wanted HIS way, he'd snort, and then the fight was on. I didn't want to fight him - I did a TON of round pen work, moving his feet etc.... so under saddle, I just calmly disengaged his rear end, circles, serpentines etc. to get him to listen but most of the time, he wanted to fight and that scared me. So he's still in my head a little bit. 
I really don't think this mare is anything like that. But I have not been super stern with her either. but it looks like she needs way more structure from her rider. Do you guys agree?
I can do it with her if she doesn't offer me a ton of fight. 
Next time I"m here at home and I go out to brush her, if she pins her ears at me, I'm going to un-tie her and make her move her feet in the direction I want her to. Disengage, back up etc... See if that helps with her attitude. Any other suggestions? Am I on the right track? 
With my LONG story here.. does it sound like she's testing me right now for whatever reason?


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## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Yes she is. She is trying to see what you are allowing her to get away with. She does it with you because you allow it or aren't firm enough when you correct her, your husband does however so she doesn't try him.

When she tries to bite you, smack her. Don't be a baby about it and show her you mean business!

When she decides to not trot, there could be one thing: she's tired. But if she's happy to go every other direction happily, whack her with your reins or a crop, or kick her instead of squeezing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

is it possible that the saddle does not fit well? this is something that tends to sort of "add up" over time, so a new horse starts out going well, but with the discomfort of the saddle, gets more and more sour.

I agree, however, that she has found out that you , yourself, are not convinced of how your relationship with her is going to be. you are, in effect, sounding it out. this is unsettling to her. you will do much better to tell yourself, internally, how it's going to go, and then make your actions with her match this internal reality.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

I agree with Roman, you're letting her get away with stuff and then getting upset because she's doing it. Either let her or DON'T. You can't expect her to be able to do something sometimes and not at others. She needs _clear_ boundaries, not blurry ones (what you're giving her now.
My mare has tried to bite me twice. The first time I let her meet my elbow..The second time was while I was riding and she met my steel toed boots with some slight force on my end. She's never tried to bite again. She kicked when I got her, know what I did to fix that? I hit her as hard as I could with the lunge whip as soon as she kicked. Took me three days of putting her into positions where I knew she would kick and gave her a good whack for it. If someone wouldn't have known her and watched me, they would've thought I was abusing her. I wasn't, I was just letting her know that I would NOT accept that, under ANY circumstances.

Ask her first, then tell her to do it, and then make her. If she shows aggression at any point during that process, CORRECT IT. Don't ignore it just because she did what you asked, correct the aggression.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## teakwood (Aug 20, 2014)

Saddle fits her very well. If it was a saddle issue, she wouldn't be moving out the way she does when she WANTS to. It's just because she doesn't want to when she doesn't want to. 
I will set better boundaries. Get it into my head that I'm the lead horse, not her. I totally did NOT expect the turn around try to bite my foot when I wanted her to trot. I will be ready next time IF she tries that again. 
When I got her, she would sort of try to grab a bite of grass on the run but would act like I was going to beat her for it. So I KNEW that the previous owner got on her case about it. Obviously it was not allowed. I just wonder if they used a crop or what... 
When I went to first go and see her to test ride her (we actually took 3 horses out and swapped along the trail), I could see how the trainer people rode them. NO getting away with squat.


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## Ripplewind (Mar 22, 2012)

It definitely sounds like she is testing you. But from what it sounds like, you've got the right idea about how to correct this behaviour. Be stern, but fair. Earn her respect but don't make her terrified of you. It's a delicate balance between discipline and intimidation. What might intimidate one horse might not be stern enough for another. But I'm guessing you already knew that. 

I think you are on the right track. But remember, BE STERN.


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## teakwood (Aug 20, 2014)

Ripplewind said:


> It definitely sounds like she is testing you. But from what it sounds like, you've got the right idea about how to correct this behaviour. Be stern, but fair. Earn her respect but don't make her terrified of you. It's a delicate balance between discipline and intimidation. What might intimidate one horse might not be stern enough for another. But I'm guessing you already knew that.
> 
> I think you are on the right track. But remember, BE STERN.


That's my problem. She's quite sensitive. So I'm trying to figure out how to come across as boss but not to make her terrified or not a partner. For example.. the grass eating on the trail, like today, I just did not allow her head to go lower than my allowance on the reins. So she would bump herself and I also gave her a tap, tap with my calves on her sides. She'd move on ok. I also give her a voice command - move on. 
She would keep trying off and on. 
My morgan.... he needed a VERY STERN, VERY in your face rider. Not one sensitive bone in his body. He was not the horse for me. 
I'm hoping to be on the right path with this girl to earn her respect. I think I"m fair with her. I don't get on her case when she scoots forward because a bike is coming up behind her or the big rocks in front of her are scaring her. I just let her have her head, work with her and let her know I"m there for her. Or, I try my best. 
I am going to start riding with my crop. I haven't been. I"m not sure if her previous owner carried one. The trainer riders I rode with had one with them. Even maybe if I need to tap my leg with it..... We shall see.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

You'd be surprised what annoying taps can do to change a horse's behaviour. Not real light taps but with a bit of force done in a rhythmic fashion. It's the repetition that works. I'd let her put her head down to eat if she pulls but then I'd start tapping her hip until she lifts her head. It may take three or four times before she figures out that by grabbing at grass, she gets those annoying taps. Once she figures how how this works you can use it for other issues, sometimes just letting her think you're going to start tapping.


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## Ripplewind (Mar 22, 2012)

teakwood said:


> That's my problem. She's quite sensitive. So I'm trying to figure out how to come across as boss but not to make her terrified or not a partner. For example.. the grass eating on the trail, like today, I just did not allow her head to go lower than my allowance on the reins. So she would bump herself and I also gave her a tap, tap with my calves on her sides. She'd move on ok. I also give her a voice command - move on.
> She would keep trying off and on.
> My morgan.... he needed a VERY STERN, VERY in your face rider. Not one sensitive bone in his body. He was not the horse for me.
> I'm hoping to be on the right path with this girl to earn her respect. I think I"m fair with her. I don't get on her case when she scoots forward because a bike is coming up behind her or the big rocks in front of her are scaring her. I just let her have her head, work with her and let her know I"m there for her. Or, I try my best.
> I am going to start riding with my crop. I haven't been. I"m not sure if her previous owner carried one. The trainer riders I rode with had one with them. Even maybe if I need to tap my leg with it..... We shall see.


Ah, I understand. My gelding can handle me getting firm with him, but my mare is sensitive. So, I have to be stern sometimes but also reward her for any positive attempts she makes. That sounds like what you are doing, so keep it up!

I always ride with a crop, even with my mare. I hardly ever have to use it, but sometimes I'll show it to her by raising it above her hip and then I'll give her a chance to get it right.

Also, don't let yourself feel discouraged. This is all part of you two figuring each other out.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

You want a partnership? Well the first ingredient of that is mutual respect. 

You have respect for her (almost too much) and she doesn't respect you nearly enough. You need to balance that out a bit. 

A bump to the mouth is not going to scare the bejeezers out of her, it will simply send a message that she has crossed a line.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

Being a leader is a state of being. Horses will continually test others and never try it with a special few because those special few have a way of carrying themselves that instinctively commands respect. You know that teacher, or that one kids parents, and all they had to do was give a look or say a single word and everyone immediately snapped to attention and behaved themselves. Those are natural leaders. You can LEARN to be a leader, but first you have to let go of your subservient state of being; meaning that you have to stop being soft. Don't think 'I don't want to hurt him', just learn to get mad about the way you are treated, but then channel that emotional energy, don't let it get the best of you and become explosively angry.

I am a natural leader, but my horse had me trained to a subservient position beneath her. I had to learn to stop putting up with it, but then control and channel all that emotional energy so I could be a very calm but firm leader. No need to yell, just ask, then demand. Obviously I don't use the 'ask, demand' system with every single horse, each horse is different of course. But for a pushy dominant horse like my own, it is 'ask, demand' because if I do 'ask, tell demand' or 'ask ask, tell tell, demand', it is just nagging. A more subservient softer horse would never need the demand phase, it would just be 'ask, tell'.

To give you an idea of what the levels of pressure are, I will use an example. I'm asking my horse to trot. First I ask with a gentle squeeze. Then I tell with a bump or kick of the heel. Then I demand with a hard smack of the reins or whip. 

Another useful thing I learned recently is to teach a horse a very specific correction sound. Rather than 'no' which is a word used much too often and too long in sound anyway, I use a 'sh-ch' sound that is not similar to any other cue. I trained my horse to this by saying 'sh-ch' with every time I corrected her with the whip. Now I don't need the whip for every correction, eventually I won't need the whip for any correction. The 'sh-ch' has proved very effective for gaining attention and as a 'shape up right now!' signal. I just have to make sure I never 'shush' my horse to calm her... :lol:


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## teakwood (Aug 20, 2014)

Reiningcatsanddogs said:


> You want a partnership? Well the first ingredient of that is mutual respect.
> 
> You have respect for her (almost too much) and she doesn't respect you nearly enough. You need to balance that out a bit.
> 
> A bump to the mouth is not going to scare the bejeezers out of her, it will simply send a message that she has crossed a line.


yup, you got that right. The respect is a little off balance right now. I will try to get that into balance. I can see the difference when my husband is working around her. She tries at first with him and then she stops as soon as he just tells her to knock it off. She didn't want to be brushed but he just waved his hand at her and didn't make a big deal over it - just expected her to knock it off and she then just stood there for him. 
Last time she did this, we backed off with her and had her vet checked. vet thought it was ulcers. We put her on the medication and she got WAY worse. She went off her food and got worse each day. 
Vet suggested to stop the medication which we did and she started to improve. He figured that she is probably a low acid producer to begin with and then we stopped any acid production, making her stomach very angry. 
He also suggested if she's coming into a heat cycle, she could be experiencing pain from the cycle. I had a mare once that became very sore in her lower back during her heat cycle (ovary area).
Most all mares I've had pretty much stop cycling once winter hits. But who knows..... 
Because I see her stop the ear pinning when my husband works with her tells me she is just pushing buttons. 
And if she had not wanted to move out at the start of our ride today, I would be thinking Pain somewhere. But she was MORE than willing to move out because she wanted to.


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

When a horse wants to move out, they WILL move out, pain or not. They are very good at hiding pain.

A good example is my mare. She will not, under any circumstances, act up when she's in pain. She is a mare and she pins her ears all the time. She just likes everyone to think she's grumpy, is the conclusion I've come to. I don't pay a mind to her pinning her ears unless she snakes her head with it. Not snaking it AT me, just snaking it in general (if it's at me she gets whacked upside the head she just threw towards me, and she is NOT headshy because of it).
She is also a dominant mare, any nagging and she will up her ante and get aggressive. That is the exact reason I got her as "aggressive and unpredictable". No one wanted to correct her, they just nagged her. She's sensitive to cues, but she is not sensitive to corrections. When I correct her, it honestly looks like I'm abusing her if the people watching don't know her. That's where every horse is different can be exhibited beautifully.

Anywho, back to the hiding/not being obviously in pain. I bought a brand new, expensive out the butt, fancy saddle pad. Looked great, was a Deere brand wool pad. Little did I know, the wool was held together with stitching that was RIGHT on her withers. I went for a trail ride with it, didn't think anything of it. Halfway through our ride she kept stopping. Didn't back up, didn't throw her head, etc. All she did was stop. I couldn't ride her for almost a month afterwards. I got back to the barn to find a bloody saddle pad and sliced/cut up/rubbed bloody raw withers. I felt terrible (and still do), but she didn't do anything too noticable. At that point we were still working on a lot of training things and I chocked it up to her just being in heat.
Just recently I switched to another wool pad (from a neoprene one) for the winter so she wouldn't sweat as much. It looked a little thinner but figured it would be fine since I thought the neoprene condensed some anyway with the saddle/me on it. All of a sudden she was inching down hills, planting her front feet and darn near sitting down on hills instead of sliding down them like she usually does. Checked her back and nothing was out. Couldn't figure out why but figured I'd add a second pad under this new one I started using (a slightly thinner one that came out about the same thickness as my old one with both on there). She's sliding down hills like a champ and back to normal movement on the trails. I assume with the pad that was almost half as thin as my old one, the saddle was rocking forward down hills and hitting her withers/shoulders. My saddle fits beautifully when she's in shape and has a normal sized pad..well, with her being slightly out of shape (lost some topline during her time off due to the cold) and the thinner pad, it didn't fit perfectly anymore. Like I said though, she still moved out and did everything normally aside from changing how she traveled downhill. Unless you really know your horse, that probably wouldn't be something super noticable. I knew something was wrong, finding out/figuring out WHAT is always the tricky part though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## teakwood (Aug 20, 2014)

Her saddle fits her really well. It was made for her actually. I can ride with the cinch fairly loose and the saddle never moves. Goes up hills, down hills with no change. Now when she was out of adjustment, OMG.... short choppy steps going downhill and would still trot out but would throw head around. 
And she was extremely cinchy. None of that at the moment.


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