# Is he "off" to you?



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

there does seem to be an uneveness to the trot.. the head is bobbing a bit, too. I am not sure if it's right rear or right front. I see the front left going faster in it's in the air phase, and usually that means the horse is trying to unload the other foot, the front right, as fast as possible, so that it means that the "slower" one is the lame foot.

but, it looks like he is not even in the back, either, so that I am not sure if the head bobbing isn't corresponding to the rear, not the front.

such slow WP trots always look half lame to me.


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Use the lash of that whip on his rear. Pick a word for what you want, use it then USE the whip to get the result, then reward. Continually clicking to him without using the whip to get him to go is useless. 

Unless you want a western pleasure horse, you might look for a different horse.


----------



## HombresArablegacy (Oct 12, 2013)

Watched the video on my phone, small screen, but from what I could see/hear, it seems that the surface you are working him on has a lot of stones? Rocks? If he's not shod and barefoot, that in itself would be painful. Check his soles for stone bruising.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

He is a western pleasure horse. that's what I want. And typicalled I do click twice and he goes into the jog with the lunge whip as well. We are working on it. Thanks

And my ground is a little rougher than usual. Its my arena. It hasnt been done in a while.


----------



## luvmydrafts (Dec 26, 2013)

just an uneducated first impression opinion here since i mostly only ever see my own horses...he looks like he is walking in a "ouchy" way, like the way you walk on hot sand or sharp rocks etc. also that looks like a strange walk not a trot, there is never an airborne phase of that gait that i saw, like with a true trot... and he just never seems to get his legs extended normally, he takes these tiny little mincing steps...so yes he does look awkward to me...sorry if what i said sounds totally ignorant...it could be...lol...he could be totally fine and im just an idiot XD


----------



## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I thought his LH looked off and his muscling in general looked odd and he just doesnt look relaxed and comfortable.


----------



## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I think he's short stepping in the back some, maybe the rear closes to you.
It's hard for me to tell cause my playback sucks.
Does he feel off under saddle?.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

He does seem off/awkward under saddle. I have a video of him loping-barely. I could try and post it. Possibly. Just don't judge me trying to get him into the lopeXD its hard to lunge, ask, and hold my phone as still as possible.

He is a western pleasure trained horse. So I know his jog seems like a weird walk. That's just how it is. But its beginning to be more , uh how to explain, more different than it should be if that makes sense

Do y'all think I should try and get a chiropractor out? My vet doesnt think its anything he could fix(he was just out didn't notice anything wrong)


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

try asking him to move more. with more umph, and see if he looks off at that.


----------



## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

It is impossible to know for sure unless you make him move. With him going this slow everyone is just giving a guess.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Okay I will try and get a better video


----------



## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

barrelbeginner said:


> Okay I will try and get a better video


If you could get someone to hold the camera for you, having the horse trot (versus jog) on a straight line past the camera both ways and towards it and away from it, as well as longe circles both ways would be the most helpful.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

phantomhorse13 said:


> barrelbeginner said:
> 
> 
> > Okay I will try and get a better video
> ...


Okay I will do this in the morning. Sorry this video was not the best.!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

He needs to MOVE. Regardless of what I think of WP and the fact that you would actually want that you CANNOT diagnose lameness if the horse isn't even trotting!!

I agree something looks off. I would get a vet and chiro and a new farrier, those feet don't look right. His footfall/legs looks off and the way he moves and muscling is NOT happy. No, I don't care if he's naturally slow or not (and I really don't believe that is natural) that movement isn't normal.

So do get a video of him trotting and moving out. It won't ruin his training to lunge him forward once. It may be possible that this type of movement is exacerbating whatever the issue is. Do you normally lunge him like this? Not sure what the point is.

Is the sluggish not wanting to go forward/change gaits normal? I do think he needs to be seen by a/some professionals.

I would be interested in pics of his feet and general conformation pics.

I was watching a very stiff and sore (navicular) horse today. This guy reminds me of that.

It does look like he has conformation that would predispose him to this type of movement (note that does not mean the conformation is the issue you're seeing)


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Yogiwick. My farrier is my vet. 

I just bought this horse back in July. Typically he has shoes on. He's 14 now and previous owner HAS ALWAYS HAD HIM SHOD. She stated he can get quarter cracks, but its never affected his soundness.

He is typically a forward moving horse, yes his gaits are slow, but in this video more so I believe. 

When I first got Toy, I'd click twice and he'd change into a jog, and then two kisses and he would go into a lope. 

As I said, I will get better videos tomorrow. Also, since you would like to see some confo/hoof shots, I will get those as well.

Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

I have another video I am currently uploading to YouTube. Its him trotting fast. And a little section of it is loping. To me he looks off in it. So I'll probably get a chiropractor out first. As soon as I get some money. 
Looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say with this next video. 

I'll still go ahead and get more videos tomorrow. And pictures. 

Thank you guys for your responses. I really do appreciate it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I have never heard of a farrier being a vet.. honestly it makes me think "jack of all trades.."

I would still be interested in seeing pics of his feet. Am I understanding correctly that he always had shoes and you recently took them off. That may not be helping.

When was the farrier last out? If this guy/gal is also a vet what did they say about these things?

I guess I'm missing forward=slow. I don't LIKE the slow, but what's concerning me is the lack of impulsion and unwillingness to go beyond the actual speed.

Sounds like this has been happening, though it could be training stuff too.

The more the better lol, I'm glad you didn't take what I said personally, I thought I may of come off a little blunt.

Looking forward to seeing the video. When was it taken?

Chiro sounds good. I feel he may need more then that but I think it will definitely help. Even if it's not the cause he's moving so awkwardly I wouldn't be surprised if it's effecting things.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

The video turned out upside down on YouTube.... Also my vet is a specialist in lameness issues.(though I never brought up this-my fault, but I don't have the money for a vet bill-and my dad doesn't think there is anything wrong with him) 
Maybe I'm confused on the forward thing too. 

The video posted is from two days ago I believe.

And how he was trained was once he goes that slow he gets to stop (/sorta not sure how to explain- but I agree he is being weird)

His attitude has recently changed too.

He just got his feet done a week ago. And since I'm currently not paying for it, dad said no shoes.

This could be a mixture of no shoes and needing an adjustment? 

Also. I am not taking what you say personally. I'd rather be told, hey yeah something's wrong here, than not to be. http://www.horseforum.com/horse-conformation-critique/critique-toy-apha-gelding-473602/#post6119946

There are some conformation when I first got him


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah I personally don't like that type of movement but I'm only trying to comment on what I see here!

How long has he been barefoot? a week?

When did this behavior start?

Can you have the "farrier" look at him (you get two opinions in one lol!) I don't think the vet won't tell you something because they're on farrier duty. It's something to talk about with a farrier anyways. Just if things start looking like an extra bill make it clear that atm you are just interested in your *farrier's* opinion. If my horse is moving oddly I definitely expect my farrier to watch them move at no extra charge.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Honestly, its been like this probably for a month or so. But I haven't been riding, as I'm a senior in highschool(and the weather is crap), I've been really busy and figured he was just having an off week. Now I'm starting to get more concerned. 

Yes shoes have been off probably I'm thinking a week exactly.

I think what I'm going to do, is get my chiropractor out asap. (He is a really nice guy) talk to him. See if that helps. If not I'll get my vet out.

I will get pictures in the morning(hopefully the weather is nice)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sounds like a good plan. Shoes may not be helping but if it's been ongoing there's obviously more then that.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Okay I am downloading a video that is him actually trotting around in my arena. I could not get help so I hope this is good enough. Its short but I have a couple if this one is not long enough. Sorry that I can't get the best videos. Also I tried to get conformation shots and I can't get them to upload from my phone:/ sorry. 




Sorry the video is only 11 seconds.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

http://youtu.be/1zp1vVrpRK0

This one is from the other day. Uploading it seemed to have went wonky, the video is sideways, but I can tell he is off once he gets into the lope.. Does this one help at all pinpoint if its in the front or back? To me it seems like the back...


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Thanks for the other videos. I don't see a ton, as you said not the best videos. But it does confirm whatever it is I'm seeing in the first one.

The "lope" seems to be very uncomfortable for him. It's like the trot in the first video lol, but either way it took me awhile to actually figure out he was loping and not pretending too (the footfall is right the movement is not).

Since his lameness doesn't get worse when he's moving forward and since he's not actually lame or limping anywhere I do still agree the chiro may be a good place to start.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Thanks! I'll get him out asap, and then I'll update on how he doing!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

He doesn't look lame to me in the short trot, but it just may not have been enough time for my slow brain, lol. I n the lope, it looks like he tries to take the correct lead, but it hurts, and he switches. So, to me, it would be his weight carrying hind leg or hip that is hurting. Watch for his head to Bob UP when he trots if it is his hind leg. I could not tell if that was happening.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

since he wants the left lead, then doesn't that mean that it's his left hind that he is trying to protect? since the strike off leg is the outside right, which if that is his "good" leg, then he wants to stay in that position. strike off with right hind means a left lead. a right lead needs him to strike off with the left hind.

this is pure speculation. to me, it almost looked like he was troping, and that could be a habit of his. but, one can see that he is a lot less comfortable on a lunge line, in a circle, than on a straight line, so I would say that physically, he is not as comfortable as "normal".


----------



## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I see right front leg lameness in both slow trot video and the shorter trot video. I can't judge lameness for a **** at the trot and yeah western pleasure jogs make them all look lame to me. That said, I think he has weird (small and upright) front legs and looks off with a head nod on the right front. What kind of shoes did he have on? Did he have bar shoes? Something about him makes me think navicular.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

right front was my first guess, but on the straight trot, I didn't see lameness.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Rookie. He just had normal shoes on. I don't think he has navicular, but I'll keep that in mind if the chiro doesn't help. Will keep y'all updated 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rookie (May 14, 2012)

How were the normal shoes on? I have seen them placed on backwards in loo of bar shoes.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

They were placed on normally 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

OP I would ask the chiro to watch him go for a minute.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

The fact that the horse looked lame to me on all four in the first video could be because he has only had his shoes off for a short time and the surface is stoney. 

It takes several months for a horse to transition from shod to barefoot. 

When making a video of a horse for action purposes, it needs to be in a bridle/halter, 
Run up at a good speedy trot. Filming needs to be from the side, directly from behind and directly from in front preferably on an even firm even surface.


----------



## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

he is stiff , a week of being barefoot from shod, probably tender. He just needs to be turned out to move freely, get those hooves toughened up some, and to walk and trot without the lunging so he can stretch out from that taught WP gait. He was tripping some in that arena.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm seeing a very relaxed horse. Watch the movement in the middle of his back.


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your responses. Hopefully I'll be getting the chiropractor out and hell be less stiff or weird. Hopefully hell still be himself- just had to put down his buddy today:/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Aww I'm sorry to hear that. It's hard for everyone including the other horses.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Sorry about having to put down the other horse. That must have been THE worst day.

Funny how everyone has a different opinion about this guy. To me, that means wait a bit til it's more conclusively clear .


----------



## barrelbeginner (Jan 31, 2012)

Okay guys, Chiropractor comes out Tuesday! Im excited about this. Hopefully I will receive some answers.

And thank you. Toy seems to be grumpy. distant. But eating. and playing with the other horses. So he is just grumpy with me. HAHA. 

Will update everyone on Tuesday night about what the Chiropractor has to say.

Last horse of mine he worked on, He did an Amazing job.. Literally horse couldnt pick up lead. then could do flyings in like a week..

SO we shall see.!


----------



## Carrie94 (Dec 2, 2014)

What I wouldn't give for my hot hot hot 12 y/o QH to trot that slow! He's seriously got a standardbred trot - super annoying when I'm trying to teach him to relax and slow down!


----------

