# How do you train a horse to go on the bit? Please help!!



## Emma7442 (Jan 19, 2008)

I want to teach 14 year old Chester to go on the bit but i don't know how! In the shows in new zealand your horse has to be on the bit the whole time. 

Thanks!!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

This is something best dealt with the help of a trainer. I would really need to be there, seeing what you horse is like right now and seeing exactly what works vs what doesn't. However you are correct, most horse shows require the horse to be on the bit at all times, barring the "nervous novice" classes. What style do you ride? What is your horse currently doing? Have you asked the horse to accept the contact of your reins at all?


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## mell (Sep 5, 2007)

justdressageit is right, you do need a trainer. however i found this site and thought it might help.
http://www.eques.com.au/dec-07/training.htm


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## Emma7442 (Jan 19, 2008)

mell said:


> justdressageit is right, you do need a trainer. however i found this site and thought it might help.
> http://www.eques.com.au/dec-07/training.htm


Thanks but what is a half halt?


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## mell (Sep 5, 2007)

a half halt can be used to get the horses attention, to help balance him etc. it can be used at almost anytime, such as going from trot to canter, making a turn, to get it to slow down etc.
before you start working on getting your horse on the bit you need to be well balanced with steady hands and have a good seat.
to ask for a half halt you give a little squeeze on the outside rein whilst using your seat and legs to prevent the horse from slowing down. you need your inside rein to prevent the horse from flexing to the outside.(the horse needs to have flexion to the inside) all this time however you need to keep your hands as soft as possible. when your horse 'gives' release the pressure as a reward.

there is kind of a 'pyramid' type thing - 
1)relaxation/rhythym. 
2) impulsion. 
3)contact/acceptance of the bit
4)suppleness
5) then lastly comes collection
(i hope i got these in the right order, think i did)

remember to give your horse breaks, its boring going round and round in circles. also your horse wouldn't have built up the muscles for this so he will get sore. just take it slow.

you should definatly look for a trainer as they will be able to explain it better and show you. also every horse is different. (has your horse even been taught to go on the bit ?) if not it is better to learn on a more educated horse first.
when your just starting out it can be frustrating. you must be patient. this process can take years, it is not going to happen over night!

it took me ages to try and explain this, so i hope you understand what im trying to say


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## Emma7442 (Jan 19, 2008)

mell said:


> a half halt can be used to get the horses attention, to help balance him etc. it can be used at almost anytime, such as going from trot to canter, making a turn, to get it to slow down etc.
> before you start working on getting your horse on the bit you need to be well balanced with steady hands and have a good seat.
> to ask for a half halt you give a little squeeze on the outside rein whilst using your seat and legs to prevent the horse from slowing down. you need your inside rein to prevent the horse from flexing to the outside.(the horse needs to have flexion to the inside) all this time however you need to keep your hands as soft as possible. when your horse 'gives' release the pressure as a reward.
> 
> ...


Cool i kind of get it, but what happens after I ask for a half halt, I give a little squeeze on the outside rein whilst using my seat and legs to prevent my horse from slowing down? I understand how to do it but what will my horse do if i ask for a half halt, i mean will he stop or something? Is he supposed to slow down?


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## mell (Sep 5, 2007)

in this case no he is not supposed to slow down, keep him going.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

No, the horse is not supposed to stop, hence the "half" halt. It should collect back up underneath you.. it's to rebalance you and the horse. It's supposed to be a slight "pause" of sorts to let you start up again with more collection and control. Think of it like this: you're not getting something right, so you stop for a second and think about how to do it, then keep going... now take out the full stop. (I'm pretty sure that didn't make sense at all...)
Again, I strongly recommend you see a trainer about this, as it is something that really can't be taught without seeing what you're working with. 

I'll try and explain it in very very simple terms:
You need the horse to be supple through the body before you even think about getting the head in the right place. You can do this by working on bending through circles, and making sure the horse is moving through the hindquarter. To ask for a headset, you keep the inside rein steady and check and give (like squeezing water out of a sponge) with the outside rein until the horse responds by giving through the jaw and putting its head closer to being in a headset, i.e. lowering the poll. When he flexes, stop bugging him with your hands, and keep them steady. As soon as he raises his head or moves it out of the headset, you want to correct it by asking with the outside rein. 
Ideally, I want to see a horse with a long and low headset when first learning, then you can bring the neck up and tucked when you further your dressage training. I like to see the neck flexed and the poll around the height of the wither with the head flexed so the nose is on the vertical..It looks more equitation-horse/ hunt-seat horse but this allows your horse's back to strengthen enough to ask for the "swan neck" in dressage, if you're going that far. 

Picture examples:

Horse not in headset:
http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/868/55021333.JPG

Horses nicely flexed in equitation-style/hunt-seat style headset: 
http://www.loveequestrian.com/Horse_Photos/Holly-Steph-World-2001-Trot - FOR WEB.JPG
http://www.equineformsinc.com/images/02chestmare.gif

Nice Dressage Headset:
http://www.horsemagazine.com/2006StallionDirectory/Photos/Lingh.jpg

Horse Behind the Vertical:
http://www.sustainabledressage.com/rollkur/why_not/1010731.jpg
http://www.pineacresfarm.biz/images/katshow01.gif
http://www.sustainabledressage.com/rollkur/why_not/rider_pulling_back.gif

Horse in front of the Vertical:
http://flyingchangefarm.com/alix under saddle.jpg

Hope this helps.. a bit..?


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## mell (Sep 5, 2007)

even if you only get lessons every now and then, it will still help alot.


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## Emma7442 (Jan 19, 2008)

Thank you it did help. I'm going to try it 2morrow. I have actually had lessons for four years but I was never taught things like that. Thanks for the help every one.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Oh, and remember.. you can check HARDER, but not LONGER.


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## Cheval (Jan 1, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> No, the horse is not supposed to stop, hence the "half" halt. It should collect back up underneath you.. it's to rebalance you and the horse. It's supposed to be a slight "pause" of sorts to let you start up again with more collection and control. Think of it like this: you're not getting something right, so you stop for a second and think about how to do it, then keep going... now take out the full stop. (I'm pretty sure that didn't make sense at all...)
> Again, I strongly recommend you see a trainer about this, as it is something that really can't be taught without seeing what you're working with.
> 
> I'll try and explain it in very very simple terms:
> ...


You pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

Also, when your horse is on the bit, just let them stay there. Don't keep pulling on their mouth, because then, they probaly wont' want to get on the bit anymore.


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## DressageGirl (Oct 17, 2007)

I agree with Cheval and JustDressageIt completely! I've seen a lot of people just force the horses head down with side reins or draw reins, without actually allowing the horse to work into a frame and develop the muscle they need in order to carry themself in a nice frame. Is it just me, or does it actually hurt anyone else to look at those pictures of horses behind the vertical?? Those are the type of people that have forced the horses head into a fake frame or have to hold the horses head there. I agree with JustDressageIt about seeing a long and low headset first, and then bringing the horse into a more collected frame. When you first start out, your horse wont be balanced and probably not using they're hind quarters, and maybe even have their head stuck in the air, so starting your horse on a long and low headset helps getting your horse to use they're hind quarters and stretches they're neck and back muscles so you can eventually bring the horse up into a frame. 

It takes time for a horse to correctly come into frame, so be patient and good luck! :wink:


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

DressageGirl, most of those "behind the vertical" pictures are of "talented" dressage riders preforming the RollKur, which is a very controversial topic that's been very hot in the recent past. If you want to read up on it, I suggest this website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollkur
It's extreme hyperflexion of the neck that's supposed to teach collection to a horse... but it's not a quick flexion (the jaw often touches the horse's chest), instead the horse carries its head like this through an entire workout. 
Anyways, getting off topic, but yes.. being behind the vertical is NOT good.


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

Possibly try to push him into the bit, by like holding him tighter, but applying pressure with your feet.


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## Emma7442 (Jan 19, 2008)

Oh my gosh its all so confusing !!!! I have tried and it doesnt do a thing. I just dont see what the point in it is!


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## mell (Sep 5, 2007)

your horse probably isn't trained this. You need to talk to your ridning instructor about it, as he/she can see the horse and help you alot more


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

Does your horse accept steady pressure from the bit? You've got a lot of great advice about creating headset, but if you can't touch your horse's mouth at all, you need to fix that first.

I worked with a young horse who completely avoided the bit. She'd had very little training and while she was willing, she just didn't know better. To get her to begin to accept bit pressure, we avoided just riding around the ring. We did lots of serpentines and small circles and figure 8s and direction changes. She was comfortable with pressure on the reins to turn and create bend, she just had to learn to accept it all the time. By working on the turns where she was comfortable, she pretty quickly started to allow a steady contact and accepted the bit. She dropped her head and nose down (she tossed it and stuck her nose out to avoid contact) and accepted the light, steady pressure. We had to get to this point first before we could even try using half halts and creating a headset.


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

Don't get discouraged! If you don't know how to ask for a headset and your horse doesn't know how to do it, it's going to be difficult for both of you. Even if you have a horse who knows what to do, it can take weeks or even months before you learn to ask correctly and the two of you can perform consistently. Just like learning to anything else on a horse, it takes time. So don't give up! If you have an instructor familiar with you and the horse that would help you most. We can give you all the advice on here, but it's never going to be as helpful since we can't see you or your horse and aren't familiar with your strengths and weaknesses. Remember to take your time and don't expect results overnight.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I would strongly suggest asking a trainer to help you out. It's very difficult for us to see what's going on short of being there. Also, it's generally harder to get an older horse to go into a frame if they've never been in one before..


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## Emma7442 (Jan 19, 2008)

Just to say this again but I dont have the money for a trainer. Im not rich.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Okay, I'm sorry I must have missed that in earlier posts.

How many times have you tried to ask for the headset? I can tell you right now it's not going to be an overnight fix.. like RegardingHorses said, it's going to take a ton of persistance and may take a long time, but eventually your horse should start coming into your hands. 

Remember: Keep your inside hand steady, and check and release with the outside hand while keeping leg pressure on and asking the horse forward. (the best gait to start on is probably the walk or trot if your horse has a steady 1-2-1-2 trot. Because you want to encourage forward motion, I wouldn't want to start asking at the halt.. also your horse might get confused and think you want "back up" instead.) Your horse will resist at first, so you can check harder but not longer if she pits her jaw against you.

Maybe if you could post a couple of pictures or a video we might be better able to help?


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

I have a question along these lines. My stallion was a "gaper" when it came to any amount of steady contact on the bit until I started working with a trainer last summer when he was five. We spent a lot of time working with serpentines and circles getting him to respond to my seat and legs, working on lateral flexion, suppling him up, balance and rhythm, and establishing his headset. 

When I have him working properly, he now has a very balanced, flowing movement with a proper headset (this is after much warm-up, and a lot of work). But this is with quick reminders of head position and no contact otherwise (more western style).

I would like to do a little more english and dressage next season, but although my boy learned to drive through light rein contact reminders, he still feels like he leans on the bit or pushes through (feels heavy) with steady contact. He is no longer a gaper, and he will go into frame, but he really is only light with quick contact reminders while driving (fine for western, but not english). 

I am wondering if it is just a matter of time and practice with sessions with constant contact?? Or, is there some hole in the training?? Am I missing something? He is coming along nicely, but I don't like that heavy feel when I take up steady contact. It does help when I really drive him with my seat and legs. 

I don't know if that made sense??


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

i dont know if this has been said yet or not but the last post i read of yours said about how you werent getting any response. firstly, you probably would notice any chance straight away. these things can take time and even longer for them to get into the right frame without much effort.

secondly, if your horse has never been trained to go onto the bit then his muscle tone etc wont make it easy for him to get into or keep that frame. 

lunging with side reins etc can help. its good for building muscle tone and helping the horse into a good frame. dont overuse this though. 

as with pantene 'it wont happen overnight, but it will happen'


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

jazzyrider said:


> i dont know if this has been said yet or not but the last post i read of yours said about how you werent getting any response. firstly, you probably would notice any chance straight away. these things can take time and even longer for them to get into the right frame without much effort.
> 
> secondly, if your horse has never been trained to go onto the bit then his muscle tone etc wont make it easy for him to get into or keep that frame.
> 
> ...


Do you mean me Jazzy? I don't think I have posted that I am not getting response? I actually do think I can benefit from the suggestion of using side reins though ....it has been a while since I have used those on my boy.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

no no not you  it was to the original poster


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

AKPaintLover: what kind of bit are you using when you try to keep a steady contact? If you are using a western shank bit, it may not put the right kind of pressure on his mouth. If it's some kind of snaffle, there's a different issue. It would help us to know which you are using.


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## daroczy (Feb 14, 2008)

It's very-very hard to teach an elder horse to anything. He will learn slowly and forget fast just like elephant babies... (So we say here). Rounds and arcs are good, but it is not enough do it only once, you must keep on asking him again and again. He will not to this for you for the first, second or third time. He has to understand what do you want of him, you probably ask him somthing that were never asked before. No method to substitute the patience.
Even if you are not so wealthy, you may be able to pay a trainer once a week or once in two weeks. She or he showes you what to do and you practice it on the other days. Of course it is not as good as you would be trained every day but it's better than nothing.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Amen, daroczy!


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

regardinghorses said:


> AKPaintLover: what kind of bit are you using when you try to keep a steady contact? If you are using a western shank bit, it may not put the right kind of pressure on his mouth. If it's some kind of snaffle, there's a different issue. It would help us to know which you are using.


Regarding horses, I have been riding him in only a snaffle (though I have to show in a curb in this upcoming season). It is shown in my avitar - I keep the reins on the snaffle attachment always with no curb chain. I was hoping to switch training to the curb attachment in the days before a show, but otherwise, do not use that part. It is a single joint, which he seems fine with, but I also have a double joint in that style.

I took out the side reins again last week to try to help him accept the pressure better in that way (he is nowhere near as bad as he was last winter - when he gaped at direct pressure). I was thinking of throwing the side rein workout into the training schedule 1 or 2 times a week (I am back up to working him almost daily again now). I also started including riding with contact (more english style) for the first part of my warm-up and then going to practicing a loose rein western jog for the second half of warm up. 

Anyhoo - that is what I am trying so far, and I just started about a week ago. At this point though, he works pretty well off a loose rein, but is not incredibly responsive with contact, and does really lean into contact (not in the desirable way where his body is light and responsive, but in the way where he feels to be falling into the contact and is unable to respond quickly and lightly to cues because of it). 

I probably made it sound worse than it really is. I would say that it is mostly a finishing/refining issue - definitely not a control or response issue (because he responds well to other body cues). He just feels sluggish. 

I would appreciate advise or exercises though.


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for the details, AKPaintlover.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, he accepts the pressure and responds, he's just really heavy on the bit.

It sounds like he's cheating and letting you support him with the reins instead of carrying himself. Little things to try are raising your hands slightly and using half halts while driving forward with your seat and legs to encourage him to lift up through his head and back and carry himself. Don't let him pull your upper body forward. The half halts are key because the pull and release doesn't give him anything to lean against. 

My horse tends to get heavy on the bit too unless you really make her lighten up. For her, it's mostly a matter of getting her collected by driving her forward and using half halts. I also used to take her out into a large field with some hills and trot and canter up and down hills. This made a world of difference for her as it strengthened her back end and improved her impulsion. I'd warm her up out in the field on the hills and bring her into the ring and she'd be wonderfully light.


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

Thanks Regardinghorses, 

I will definitely focus on that in the future. I think I tend to do a lot of half halts to keep him off of me during warm up, but it is good to know that hopefully that will make a difference. 

One question though, with your girl who gets heavy, is this something they grow out of as they learn, or is it a lighten them up for every warm up type thing? I guess I just want to know what I should try to expect. 

Thanks for the advise...I will definitely be focusing on the half halts from now on. We have a great hill on our property that I will try to incorporate a couple of times a week in my routine also. Do you think the side reins will be a benefit, or that I should drop them from the routine. The only thing that I have heard about side reins is that some horses actually tend to lean on them.


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## regardinghorses (Oct 26, 2007)

My mare leans and is heavy on the forehand unless you make her be light. She never grew out of it, it's just one of those things we have to work on every ride. After I can get her light while warming up, she stays that way on the flat. She tends to get heavy again though when we jump. She doesn't make me work too hard for it because she knows me and knows what she's supposed to do, but she's much worse for other riders she doesn't know. 

I can't say anything about the side reins as I've had very little experience with them.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

I would encourage getting a trainer to teach you how to ride a horse properly and teach him/her to move and carry itself properly. 

There are many things involved in getting a horse "in a frame". They have to engaged from behind and moved forward. It's not just a matter of teaching the horse to move his head at a certain level. 

A trainer will be able to help and your riding then when you're ready as a rider, teach the horse.

Good Luck


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

My2Geldings, 

I am not sure if you are referring to me or the original poster, but my horse is able to work in a frame - he does it without contact, mostly from seat/leg drive. My problem is when I add contact, he tends to get heavy (lazy), but I have been working on that recently, and am seeing improvements daily (spending more time half halting in warm up - recommended by regardinghorses). As it is, he is very responsive and supple - just needs some finishing work. 

As a rider, I may not always be pretty (when training - I don't always have the prettiest upper body equitation), but I know how to ride a horse properly (with a long and strong history in both English and western riding). Of course there is always room to improve. 

Dez is the second horse that I have trained from start to finish (almost finished), and he has proven to be a bit more slow to pick things up and a bit more lazy than my gelding was. I think a lot of it comes from him being a little more distractible as a stallion (but still very well behaved). 

I do appreciate your encouragement, and I definitely spend some time working with a trainer when I hit walls in my training (which I did last summer). I am currently not at a wall that I cannot handle with a little advice though. 

Regardinghorses, 
It is good to know I may always have to work on keeping him light - it seems fitting to his personality that he will likely test me always with whether or not I will let him get away with laziness.  I have a feeling he will play dumb with other riders too, in order to be lazy. Oh well.


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