# Board facility charging freelance coaches



## 22horses (May 11, 2012)

Smaller facility, with 3 coaches currently available to teach. We offer their services to new clients, as well as any leasing clients. However we used too, but had a two year gap, used to charge a "barn" fee for coaches coming in to teach at our facility. What is your experiences? Yes coaches may attract clients, but they don't incur all the overhead we have in our facilities and come in and expect to make min $50/hr up to $200 an hour. I feel when the barn makes nothing other than board, and has increased risk say with jumping etc, what is appropriate?


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## ArabianAllie (Oct 3, 2010)

I'm not sure where you are located or your boarders, but if my barn did that I would be mad. We pay oodles of money every month to keep our horses there and use the facilities. If I want to pay a different coach to come teach me, what difference is it really making if I used one of the ones you have or a different ones. I'm the one using the facility. I kind of feel like it's the same way if I use a different farrier, vet, ect.... I'm the one paying the board, it's my horse, and my money I pay every month to keep him there. 
If you want to charge a fee for out of house coaches, it would have to be included in the overall board prices not per session. But do you not consider use of facilities as included in your boarding fees?
and I don't think jumping is increasing anyone's risk, especially if they have a coach there, I think that would lower the risk. 

I didn't mean to sound mean, but if my BO tried to charge me for bringing in a coach, I would laugh at him and say ok, I'll just go get a stall across the street.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I guess it depends. If a person is coming on property and keeping my boarders happy and not interfering with the rest of the operation, I wouldn't (and don't) charge. They do have to provide their own insurance and liability waivers.

However if they are interrupting the normal flow of things, making the non-student boarders nervous, bad mouthing other coaches, etc - I would not go out of my way to make things comfortable for them.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Most facilities do not allow outside trainers in. Others generally charge a fee. I think it's rare that they let them come in and coach for free.


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## 22horses (May 11, 2012)

*Outside coaches*

Paying board is paying for the use of the facility, care and upkeep of your horse, yes. Outside coaches coming in and making $$ off your million dollar facility is something different. Now you have to book a time slot off, other boarders will avoid that time, its now become exclusive use of MY arena. It is NOT a boarders property. In my mind its common courtesy for a coach to pay for the opportunity to use your facility and equipment for a lesson to make $ for themselves. It is a privilige for them to be on your property. They don't have the overhead/the upkeep/and the 18 hrs daily work of the boarded horses. How is that unreasonable?


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

22horses said:


> Paying board is paying for the use of the facility, care and upkeep of your horse, yes. Outside coaches coming in and making $$ off your million dollar facility is something different. Now you have to book a time slot off, other boarders will avoid that time, its now become exclusive use of MY arena. It is NOT a boarders property. In my mind its common courtesy for a coach to pay for the opportunity to use your facility and equipment for a lesson to make $ for themselves. It is a privilige for them to be on your property. They don't have the overhead/the upkeep/and the 18 hrs daily work of the boarded horses. How is that unreasonable?


If no one else is allowed to use the arena during their sessions, then yes charge.


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## ArabianAllie (Oct 3, 2010)

You didn't say it was a million dollar facility though, or that they have to book time slots or that other boarders weren't to be in that area at that time...

so yes if all of that, then a fee would be applicable..


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I don't care if a boarder has a different trainer come in to work with them. What they do is their business. However, they will not get exclusive use of the arena for their lessons & the trainer has to sign a release, though most have their own insurance.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

If I would allow an outside trainer to come in, I would charge. Since you have no control over the outside trainer's teaching methods, safety knowlege and actual level of skill, I do feel like you're opening yourself up to liability. If you already have 3 coaches on site, I wouldn't allow outside coaches in because that's cutting your 3 coaches incomes. If I were one of the 3 I'd be looking for a new place that wouldn't undercut me like that.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

It really depends on the business model of the boarding facility. 

Most boarding barns barely break even on the board, many actually lose money on boarding. Your board cost is pretty representative of what it actually costs to keep your animal, plus the overhead of running the facility. The profit to be made in these businesses is usually in lessons, training and services such as hauling, clipping, etc. 

Allowing the ring to be used by outside coaches is giving money away under this model, unless the coach is paying something towards overhead or maintenence expense; and an outside coach is not helping you retain boarders. (In my area, the best professionals usually have their own, closed barns and do not travel or free lance.)

Whether or not risk actually increases during an outside coaches' lesson, the barn owner's liability certainly does because it's another individual, and that individual has no reason or incentive to care about the BO's property or liability. 

So, in a barn that will consider allowing outside coaches in, paying a ring fee or maintenence is perfectly reasonable, IMO. In my area, it's also fairly standard. 

The only places that do not charge a fee of some type are usually the co op or self care type of boarding facility.


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

If the trainer is on the property then the barn must have insurance to cover them


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Around here there are a lot of "outside" instructors/trainers and they don't mind a reasonable fee. To them it is still cheaper than the liability insurance and hassle of doing business on their own property.


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## 22horses (May 11, 2012)

Great responses, great perspectives, appreciate all the comments. I think Maura, you said it best, not nearly enough $$ in boarding, and coaches should pay a ring fee. Dreamcatcher arabians, I agree that its good to limit the coaches for that reason. I despise barn politics, and some of these coaches who freelance really come with interesting personalities.......I really want it to be a serious business and run as respectfully as possible.


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## KarrotKreek (Mar 31, 2012)

A barn typically has an inhouse trainer. If that trainer does not cover certain disciplines that boarders are looking for then yes, outside trainers should be allowed. It keeps a wider variety of boarders attracted to the barn.

Our barn allows this, without fee, if it meets the above criteria. In other words there is no conflict of interest. But there is no exclusive use of the arena. As a boarder I appreciate this, because it helps keep my lesson fees lower. I understand the reasons for charging a trainer, and again I appreciate that my boarding facility doesn't. I'm sure if there was a trainer conflict or other issues with the non-resident trainer that the outside trainer would be blocked. 

The barn can charge a trainer a "usage" fee, but most likely that trainer will just turn around and pass this off on your boarders who are taking the lessons.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

In my experience, all stables charge a fee for any trainers. I have had prices from $5-15 per session. I much prefer a stable that does *not* have a trainer onsite. In my experience, onsite trainers were not highly trained enough to suit my learning needs, they are more for begining riders or focused on training horses instead of training people to ride their horses. 

I would never stay at a barn that did not allow outside trainers. 

But then that was in my highly competitive Dressage days, you may have a different type of boarder. Mostly I traveled to the instuctor's farms for lessons. Four to six hours round trip including the 45 minute lesson, plus gas, food & $80-120 per lesson fee. 

I think an extra 5-15 dollars to have the trainer come to the farm is a bargin...


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

One rather busy barn I used to board at allowed outside trainers without a fee, but they did not have exclusive use of the arena. Boarders could happily share it and ride around the lessons. This was the case with the in-house instructors as well. The barn owners also reserved the right to boot anyone who was causing problems. For instance, I know of one outside trainer who got barred from teaching there due to repeated instances of her hassling other boarders who were using the arena while she was giving lessons, and people starting to feel uncomfortable using the ring as she would shout at them if she thought they were in her way.


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

thesilverspear said:


> One rather busy barn I used to board at allowed outside trainers without a fee, but they did not have exclusive use of the arena. Boarders could happily share it and ride around the lessons. This was the case with the in-house instructors as well. The barn owners also reserved the right to boot anyone who was causing problems. For instance, I know of one outside trainer who got barred from teaching there due to repeated instances of her hassling other boarders who were using the arena while she was giving lessons, and people starting to feel uncomfortable using the ring as she would shout at them if she thought they were in her way.


This is a very good point! There is nothing worse than having an instuctor think they own the place when on the premisses. Some of the worst I have seen hogging everything are onsite trainers. The instructors need to stay in one area of the arena or something, unless it is a clinic. On clinic days, part of the rider & auditor fee goes to the hosting stable. 

The best facilities have clearly stated rules regarding boarder & instructor usage, and any fees. Same thing with horse shoers, no extra fees usually, but no exclusive rights either.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Boarding places are so competitive here (80 billion of them) that if they exclude outside trainers or charge a fee, you'll spot 80 bazillions desperate ads from them for more boarders on Craigslist. 

My dressage trainer travels but only if there are multiple people taking lessons one after the other on the same day. I board with my old trainer who moved me on to her trainer after I "outgrew" her, so she, I and her neighbor all have our lessons on the same day. Works for us! I don't have "exclusive" use of the arena during my lessons but since the only people who use the arena are the ones that have lessons with this trainer, we don't ride during someone else's lesson out of courtesy.


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## Prinella (Jul 12, 2011)

Why are they seeking outside training if you have 3 onsite trainers? If it's a different discipline fair enough and I would charge a fee to cover liability


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## rascalboy (Jun 30, 2007)

I think it matters on if it's private or public. Public barns offer lessons and use their own instructors, and it's counter-productive to allow outside instructors in. I hate public barns because I can't stand the constant traffic of lessons.
Private barns usually do not offer lessons to the public, if they offer lessons at all. Most private barns allow outside instructors in (as long as the instructor has insurance), since the private barn doesn't do a major lesson program. They do not charge for outside instructors. I prefer private barns because they're quieter, and I can use my own instructor.


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## FullCircleEquestrian (May 30, 2012)

*def charge!*

Hey! I recently started leasing my DREAM facility (november 1st) .. I would MOST DEFNITLY charge any instructors coming to teach my boarders. I have to much to lose! The previous person that leased the barn got underminded by another trainer and ended up being the assistant manager of the barn SHE was leasing! and that is certainly NOT going to happen to me. I put in all my boarding contracts that if someone wants to ride with another trainer it has to be first approved by me and i will charge a $25 ring fee per lesson. If there is over 3 lessons it will go down to $20 per lesson. They also must ask me everytime this trainer comes to teach. All of the boarders i have now ride with me anyways and dont seem to have any desire to ride with anyone else. I also try to host one clinic per month with a notable trainer. Mostly grand prix dressage trainers or trainer who are VERY good in my opinion. Most of these trainers are relatively expensive so I have no worries about any of my students leaving me for them. I ride with most of them anyways so they are basically getting most of the same info from me for a cheaper price! Anyways... hope this helps a little.. I guess you have to ask yourself how important your facility is to you.. that is if you dont own the place! atleast thats how i see it, you never know what people are capable of!


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## 22horses (May 11, 2012)

*Yes, a very good point*

My concern is that! You allow them in, you don't charge, they think they run the place, and they aren't always respectful or polite. I have been sitting in on a few lessons, my daughter who has ridden with the one coach a few times tells me they shut right up when I am in there. I am not sure charging a fee is going to change that, but you can bet when the grass is greener elsewhere she is going to take those clients and run. And interesting enough, she didn't have insurance and kept hiding it until I insisted then sent me a copy (valid as of that day!!). They all want to make money but want their costs the absolute lowest.


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## FullCircleEquestrian (May 30, 2012)

*insurance*

right! Ill have to remember to also ask for a copy of the trainers insurance.. I pay $130 for liability insurance! sure as hell not letting some trainer come on my property and teach w/o having insurance!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Several farms around my area charges "trailer-in" or "ring" fee when they use "outside" trainer. The standard fee is $15/lesson. Personally I don't like it (so I try to avoid such places), however it is what it is, and I can see reasons for that.


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