# Ethics of Horse Racing



## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

Here's another thread I don't know where to put, so again if yall think there's a better place for it, feel free to move it.

Well, as the pursuit for the Triple Crown come around and the season for horse racing, I find myself keeping track and watching racing. Racing has always memorized me after watching the movies like Secretariat and Seabiscuit. I really like watching the beautiful thoroughbreds fly down the track nostrils flaring and looking majestic and powerful. I really like the sport and the horses and the competition, but I can't help but think about the ethics of racing. I know that the world of racing isn't perfect and that there have been trainers and owners that are horrible and really don't care anything about the horses and treat them as disposables. But is it really as bad as people like PETA say it is? What's yall's opinion on it?


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## Bagheera (Apr 23, 2013)

I wouldn't say it's unethical. It's a very unnatural life for a horse though.


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## GallopingGuitarist (Jan 8, 2013)

Any life other than horses running free in wilds is a very unnatural life for them. 

Racing is a sport just like any other horse sport. There are the good trainers and jockeys and there are the ones that aren't so good. 

Think of dressage, reining, jumping, barrel racing, roping, etc, etc. They are all unnatural for a horse to do, they have to be trained to do them. Actually racing is more natural than these.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

Yeah, I've read articles that say that barrel racing, dressage, Jumping, rodeo...all horse sports events have its downfalls and that horses are treated unethically in some way shape or form with trainers and stuff within any sports involving horses, it's just that the spotlight is on racing. I don't believe that the racing of horses is bad, the sport itself is great and nothing wrong with it. I just have a problem with the slaughter and treating of horses as disposable and that within the industry money comes before the horses. Honestly, I would really like to get a career in the industry, but I just question the ethics and that bugs me a little. And like I said, I've always been mezmorized by racing....I think I put "memorized" in my first post haha.


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## sportschick068 (Sep 1, 2012)

I actually just did a research paper about horse racing.
I think it's unfair to the horse to put them through rigorous training when they're young which typically makes them more susceptible to future injuries on the track. They're yearlings and two years olds when they're being put through this and so their joints haven't even fully matured. Additionally, if a horse shows signs of an injury, they're usually given Bute or another medication/drug to block out the pain enough so that the horse will run even if they have, for example, a hairline fracture in their leg. So, as you can imagine, they're again more likely to really hurt themselves while racing. 

A lot of drugs are administered to some racehorses. Some even have a little dose of cobra venom, but I forgot the purpose, exactly. Plenty of performance-enhancing drugs. Lasix is used to prevent hemorrhoids in the lungs but in return decreases the amount of bodily fluids and stuff like electrolytes. Steroids are also used as are "milkshakes," which is a concoction that has baking soda, water, and other chemicals in it. That's used to increase CO2 levels. Problem with that is some people don't know how to truly administer it properly. It's poured down a tube that is inserted through the horse's nostril and goes to the stomach. Some people puncture lungs with the tube and the horse drowns. 

Some, not all, trainers just try to breed racehorses that will win a few quick bucks before being disposed of instead of trying to build up or breed for a sturdy racehorse that will last.


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## TheAQHAGirl (Aug 10, 2012)

Keep in mind that PETA does over exaggerate things and its their best quality.

That being said, I'm not a big supporter of horse racing. I'd like to watch the smaller races, but the bigger ones not so much. Like other disciplines, there are good trainers and there are bad. 

If there wasn't so much money on the line and they didn't have the horses racing at such young ages, I would be more in favor of racing.


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## wild horses (Feb 11, 2011)

While racing is not 100% ethical nothing we do with horses is.

The problem with PETA is that if we shut down horse racing and competitions, pretty soon owning them as pets will decrease because all these associated industires will shut down....and then horses will to find themselves on the endangered species list.

Unfortunalty if we cant find a use for animals it's pretty hard to preserve them as well...

I'd rather see them racing than extinct


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## sportschick068 (Sep 1, 2012)

I'm not against horse racing, by the way. I feel some things needs to change but it'd be impossible to ban it considering how much it contributes to the economy and how popular it is. Plus, it can be exciting to watch.

Things I've heard of in other sports that are unethical are: tying a horses head up for hours so when it's time to ride in a WP class, the horse's neck is exhausted and therefore remains low, some saddlebreds have ginger put up their rectums as to elevate their tails more, firecrackers being placed in a horse's stall to rev them up, etc.


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## HeroMyOttb (Dec 28, 2009)

It all depends who you know in the racing industry. For example I got my OTTB off the track four days after his last race for free because he had a caring owner and trainer that wanted to make sure he ended up at a good home. 

Performance enhancing drugs are starting to be hit hard in the industry. Trying to get rid of them. I'm working at a thoroughbred breeding farm, and these broodmares,weanlings, and yearlings are living the life. Live better then I do. As do a lot of racehorses.

I see horse racing as just another sport that I love. I am too wanting to continue a career in the racing industry. As I see it, I can't always change how people handle or do with the race horses they are working with, as long I'm doing what I think is right, then that is all that matters.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

But with any sport performance enhancing drugs will be abused, theres no way to avoid it. BUt I'm not saying I agree with it, because I don't.

Here's the real reason why I created this thread. Well, I talked to my teacher and she said that since I'm good at science and love horses she said I need to go into horse genetics and breeding. She said she could see me breeding thoroughbreds for racing. So, here's what I would do if I did go into the industry: I would go to either the University of Kentucky or University of Arizona, who have TB breeding programs. While down there I would get under some breeders or work for trainers and build myself up I would own a ranch and breed racehorses to sell and also breed to race. Also I'm going take OTTBs and re-train them for the general public and sell them (maybe keep some too) I like horse racing, I love TBs, especially OTTBs, and I can make good money. We had a family friend who did exactly this and made a good living! But, what I wouldn't be is on of those greedy rich people who care about nothing but the money. I'm in it for the horses, plain and simple. My goal in the industry would hopefully be able to get into it, and maybe help possibly stop some of the unethical perspectives of racing within the industry. It combines what I love most, Horses and training horses. But, what happens outside the race track and all the unethical parts of racing bug me.

Please don't tell me I need a real 'job', I'm one of those people who can't stand 'real jobs' and have an entreprenuer mind. This was just something I was told to consider and I am considering it, and oddly enough I can see myself doing something like this. It's just food for thought and an option.


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## HeroMyOttb (Dec 28, 2009)

There are also awesome internships you can do for Thoroughbred breeding out there as well. Trust me, you and I are interested in the same thing. I'm currently going to college for Equine Health and working/internship at a Thoroughbred breeding farm.If you go to college I would probably go to the University of Kentucky so you could work with the more established breeding farms there.


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## HeroMyOttb (Dec 28, 2009)

Also abusing certain performance enhancing drugs leads to punishment.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Horse racer said:


> But is it really as bad as people like PETA say it is? What's yall's opinion on it?


Nothing is as bad as PETA says it is. The problem is that they are True Believers, so once they form an opinion on anything, there's nothing that will change it. It's like trying to talk to a fundamentalist about evolution.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Hmmmm I could do the long answer or the short. Short will do, after working with show jumpers, Holsteiner dressage horses at a stud, working cow-horse facility and reining horses AND being a foreman of two different racing barns in NZ who trained a minimum of thirty horses at any given time all year round I have to say a lot of people are very very very misguided when it comes to the racing industry.

I've read a few comments here, and this one stuck out:

'Its very unnatural'

The horses at the track where I worked were fed well, groomed well, turned out ALL DAY EVERY DAY EVEN IN BAD WEATHER and usually with a paddock mate. They received above and beyond veterinary care. They were hand grazed and walked every afternoon. Some went swimming. Some were hauled to the beach to run. They were spelled out in the pasture often. Racehorses are some of the most well looked after horses you will find. If they're not taken care of, then they cannot perform, the two go hand in hand.

All the 'negatives' I've seen in this thread are prevalent in nearly every other horse industry. I beg for someone to prove to me that horses are not started young or over medicated in other branches of the horse industry.....plus if anyone knew their salt they'd know that horses who win and some who place in races are all pee tested after a race.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

There's big money in racing, so it's competitive. The horses are pushed to their limits but so are their riders. Once upon a time I wanted to jockey, I'm short and was small as a kid, there's a racing barn here so I thought 'woo I've got a shot'. Except by the time I was 13 I was 'too heavy' for their standards and have since started looking at just how much these riders push themselves to 'weigh in'. It's disgusting, and if I were to change ANYTHING about the racing industry, before the standards for the horses it would be the standards for jockeys.


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## TBforever (Jan 26, 2013)

there is faults in all dicaplines 

the horse racers get a lot a lot more care then the average backyard horse

altho there is issues with this more joyous in aussie horse racing,

it isn't the industry of any dicapline it is the trainers and who is involved with it


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

The biggest beef I have with the racing industry is the age at which the horses compete. Two years old is way too young to have a rider on their back, let alone handle the stress of racing. 

Racing, in my opinion, is one of the most money-motivated horse sports out there. And money is the wrong reason to be in the equine industry. I'm not saying all racing is evil, but they often don't put the horses' best interests at the top of their priorities. 

This may not be the case anymore, but last I heard, anabolic steroids were legal in racing. I've also heard of horses being injected with heroin to improve their performance. I actually knew one who was seized during a drug raid on a racing barn. Again, not everyone involved with racing is a jerkwad, but enough are to give the sport a bad reputation.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

And here I go again... I'm gonna have to save one of these threads and just keep linking it... I work in racing, and for a very succesful trainer...

Drugs are not tolerated. Horses are NOT racing on bute. Drug testing is a common occurrence at all race meetings and different medicines require a different amount of withdrawl... over here bute is 10 days. Drugs use is very strict and the governing bodies are forever trying to amend the rules in order to keep the animals welfare the most important aspect of the rule book. The intolerance for drugs use is very evident in the recent scandal to hit kingpins Goldolphin when Mahmood al Zarooni was banned for several years, and the horses involved banned for the entire season. This scandal has hit the entire Godolphin team as even Saeed Bin Suroor has had his yard tested (and nothing found). This should be a major eye opener for the "anti racing" contingent to show that racing is not completely ruled by money, as the BHA have taken on possibly one of the wealthiest people in the world. 

I can't comment on the use of Lasix as I have been away from north america for too long. It is not used here. 

Injuries - it is not in the trainers interest at all to run a lame horse. It is not in the trainers interest to train a lame horse. The trainer is paid per day for keeping the horse. If a horse were slightly lame, and the trainer pushed it the horse would likely be out for a considerable length of time - meaning the trainer loses a paying customer... does that make sense? A trainer has overheads - feed bills, bedding, ect. They are running a business and need good paying customers. Yes, they win a percentage of the horse winnings, but at lower level racing this isn't enough to keep a yard ticking over. 

Care - Our horses have use of a Jacuzzi, equissage machine, daily turnout, nice fresh beds, all the hay they can eat. Blacksmith, vet, dentist, chiropractor are available at the drop of a hat. They are vaccinated, wormed and given whatever other care they need to keep them at their best. As I have said on other threads, I have worked for this trainer for several years, and I have never had a horse go racing and not return home.

And before anybody says "thats only for good horses"... its not. EVERY horse in our yard is treated exactly the same as the one in the stable next to them. EVERY horse, even those who wouldn't outrun a turtle are treated with the very best of care. The ones that don't make the grade are rehomed and most with a non racing contract. The others are either sold abroad, run to the end of their career and rehomed, and sold onto jumps racing. 

The jockey club, BHA, HRI, ect are all there to try and keep racing clean. Yes you have the bad ones, inevitable in all aspects of life, but they do their best to weed them out, as was discussed above.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

I have three beefs with the TB racing industry.
(1) Overworking "teen-aged" horses their hardest for the most important races
(2) Dumping the ones who couldn't make enough money onto the sports world, where there aren't enough people who want to buy them
(3) VERY inbred
A few decent trainers doesn't make up for the abusive ones, INCLUDING the owner of Barbaro.
Funny, my mother wanted to me watch him race the Kentucky Derby. I was busy (training) so I DVR'd it and watched it later. She asked what I thought, and I flippently noticed him nodding while being walked cool. That horse had injuries going into his third year, and he suffered until put down. The owners made a LOT of money from him, and don't apologize for it. Anybody here (on this forum) that did that to their horse would be heartsick.
I really wish that the best purses were for 5yo's, but that's not gonna happen.
I am sure that you do your job well, btw, and I bear you no ill will working in the industry.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

That might be true, Maple, for the trainers YOU work with but I think it's naive to believe that _everybody_ follows the rules just because the people you know and work with follow the rules. Like in any horse industry there are rotten trainers, rotten owners and rotten riders. There are even people in the industry of drug testing and coordinating who are willing to overlook certain things- you cannot speak for everybody. My old farrier worked and lived at the big track here, has seen first hand some of the abuse and doping that happens. A friend of mine had a boarding barn full of race horses boarded in the off season and there was definitely some shady business going on.

It can be aggravating to hear stories from the 'other' side when you've experienced the good care, the responsible trainers, etc. but there are two sides to every single equestrian industry.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

alexischristina said:


> That might be true, Maple, for the trainers YOU work with but I think it's naive to believe that _everybody_ follows the rules just because the people you know and work with follow the rules. Like in any horse industry there are rotten trainers, rotten owners and rotten riders. There are even people in the industry of drug testing and coordinating who are willing to overlook certain things- you cannot speak for everybody. My old farrier worked and lived at the big track here, has seen first hand some of the abuse and doping that happens. A friend of mine had a boarding barn full of race horses boarded in the off season and there was definitely some shady business going on.
> 
> It can be aggravating to hear stories from the 'other' side when you've experienced the good care, the responsible trainers, etc. but there are two sides to every single equestrian industry.


Excuse me if I come across rude.. 

Alexis, I have 14 years HAND ON experience working with racing in North America, UK and Ireland. I have been involved from backyard tracks through to some of the world's finest. My opinions and input is based on my experience, and I find it somewhat insulting you consider *me* to be naive when *you* are the one basing your opinions on hearsay or opinions from other people.. ever play telephone as a kid? 

I have never tried to say racing is all unicorn farts and fairytales. I am well aware there will be dodgy dealings, as there are with all aspects of the horse industry. I have never tried to say that racing is without fault. Tell me this - if there is so much sweeping under the rug - how on gods name is Godolphin embroiled in such a scandal? If you know any basics of racing, you would know the power that they hold in the industry. Surely if ANYBODY could get away with drugs use it would be these power players? 

It is not the trainers, owners or jockeys who make the rules - it is the relevant governing bodies who do. In the UK, its the BHA/Weatherbys, in Ireland its Horse racing Ireland, in France you have France Galop. They all have strict rules and regulations, and they,_ not the trainers_, are the ones who enforce it. They are incredibly strict, even on quite trivial matters (try declarin a set of blinkers 2 min after deadline, it doesn't happen!). Heck even O'Brien was fined for not allowing a vet to look at his horse when it looked stiff - AOB wanted his own vet to do it, the horse was examined and the trainer received a hefty fine.

And yes I do find it aggravating - why don't we start a thread (just as examples!!) on how hard barrel horses are run, or how high show jumpers are made jump. Racing is the easy scape-goat for people to pick apart.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

There have been multiple threads talking about Barrel Racers, Show Jumpers, Dressage horses, Western Pleasure horses, Endurance horses... Racing might be an easy scape goat for the general public, but as far as informed Equestrians I think all disciplines are equally criticized. I am in no way discounting your hands on experience, just adding to the conversation what I have experienced and while it may fall under 'hearsay' it hardly qualifies as a game of telephone, given my experience comes from one reputable source.

I would never claim to know much about the inner workings of racing and the 'big guys on top', that doesn't mean that what I have heard _doesn't_ happen where I am :wink:


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I think there are things that should change in the industry. I think some of the drugs used are questionable but then again I think the same can be said for the drugs used in show jumping. Same can be said for the treatment of rodeo stock at some of the smaller time rodeos. Same can be said for the medical decisions and care that back yard owners give or don't give their horses. 

A lot of my own issues come from the jockey clubs strict adherence to tradition. In some cases, such as artificial insemination and the weight restrictions on jockeys I think are detrimental to the individual and the sport. Those are not within the power of trainers or owners to change unless the all unify and the old guard of the industry are not going to do that any time soon in my book. 

Racing gets put on a huge screen every year and horses are horses so accidents happen. When they happen they get major air play. If you had a camera to follow up on every horse that mis jumps and breaks a leg we would be discussing that. The triple crown gets probably 10 x the exposure of any other equestrian event. So, lots of arm chair equestrians and arm chair activists jump into the debate. Look at the trouble Hickstead kicked up and that was a true freak accident. Now imagine the trouble that would be if that horse had broken a leg or if they found out that the romneys doped their horse at the olympics.


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## Aggs (Apr 9, 2013)

Horse racing is a very unnatural thing for a horse to do. Jumping, Dressage, and Rodeo are also way out of the park of 'natural' for a horse.

I personally love horse sports (I'm on scholarship for one) and I see nothing wrong with them.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Not a fan.

I tend to judge disciplines by the attitudes of the people involved, and I don't see caring attitudes in racing. Sure they all say they "love their horses" but so do the people on Animal Cops when they're having their animals taken away for neglect. Actions speak louder than words. We know exactly what causes the high number of accidents and breakdowns in racing (mostly racing too young) and yet the industry hasn't done anything to change that. I can think of many cases in other disciplines where the rules (or at least attitudes) were changed because of humane issues.

As for all the fancy care that racehorses receive, they get that level of care because they need it. The average backyard horse doesn't.

Another problem in racing that not a lot of people talk about is nurse mare farms, which deliberately create unwanted foals. It's worse than accidental over breeding – they get mares pregnant with the _intention_ of disposing of the foals once they're born. Sounds like people who care about horses to me!


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm sure almost everyone in the racing industry loves their horses, but sometimes (a lot of times, especially now with the way the economy is) money speaks louder than love. There isn't one Equestrian sport that is 'natural' for a horse, even natural horsemanship is not natural, the relationship between human and horse is not natural, but we have to remember that the horses we live with today are not wild animals, they have been bred for their jobs and just because it isn't what they would do in the wild, does not immediately equate 'harmful'. I wish the entirety of the Equine industry was not so heavy on money, I think then you would see a lot of changes in all disciplines. Unfortunately that's just how it is.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

its PETA .. nothing doe to animals is correct. according to PETA owning an animal is bad. 
here is my view on PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

The only thing you can really fault (most of) the horse racing industry for is the young age horses are raced at. _Most_ race horses receive excellent care, as do _most_ barrel racers, eventers, and dressage horses. However, people just don't talk about the great care these horses get, rather, they talk about the horses that get weaned at two months, raced lame, starved, locked up in stalls 23.5/7, etc. 

I do not believe in racing horses at two years old, their backs and knees have not yet fused together completely. Just as _one_ example, my old instructor's daughter was offered a race horse training job, and the horses had to be cantering under saddle at age 1.5; she declined the offer. Obviously, not all race horse trainers do this, and not all race their horses at age 2, but the Kentucky Derby is held only for horses at age 3, as are a few other major horse races. 

I would have no problem with the horse racing industry _if_ they had limits on how young a horse could be raced- such as 6 years old. And if they had better rehoming places for OTTBs, there are quite a few that get thrown away.


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

stevenson said:


> its PETA .. nothing doe to animals is correct. according to PETA owning an animal is bad.
> here is my view on PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals


Or PITA- like franknbeans said.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

there are studies that have been done, that show and prove that a correctly conditioned and trained horse has healthy enough bone to be raced. This is not talking about running the horse to death. Racing is no worse than Barrel race, western pleasure in all breeds with un Natural head sets, and lopes that are almost trots, jumping, cutting, reining, roping, gaited horse moves, dressage . etc... IF you look at a wild herd or look at horses in a pasture, they all will jump,cut, race , side pass, piaffe, and other dressage moves. They are all NATURAL movements in horses . SO what is Un natural ? running ? stopping, sliding , turning ? nope .. all natural moves.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

They are all natural moves until you put a rider on their backs. You don't see horses in the wild carrying 100 - 300 pound weights as they do all these things. I definitely agree that a correctly conditioned horse can do any of the above without issue to their bones etc. however at the age many horses are started for racing (and other disciplines) there is no way they can be 'correctly conditioned' because the issue is in their physical maturation / development.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I don't always buy the natural horse argument. Yes, horses in the wild don't carry people around on their back. Then again horses in the wild don't get vet care, farrier care, dental care or blankets when cold. Mother nature is her own kind of cruel mistress. Just because a horse lives in the wild does not make its life easier or safer than that of a race horse. likewise, just because someone cares for a horse differently than you or I does not mean they care less.

edit to add: at the end of the day racing is a business. The ethos of animals as business can equally be applied to horses as it can to pigs. Most folks like horses more than pigs and thus the morals of convenience come into play.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Exactly my point, which doesn't make sense broken up into two different posts :lol:
It may not be the 'natural way' for horses, and I don't doubt that a TRULY wild horse (ie: not a mustang) would not fare well being ridden or even cared for in the way domesticated horses are. Horses are bred to be ridden, they are bred to carry out certain tasks, so you could argue that the 'natural horse' argument only stands for animals who are honestly wild. But this is veering off topic a little.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

But at the end of the day, rodeo is also a business. So is Olympic horse sports and any other horse competitions. I love rodeo and horse competitions, nothing wrong with them, but still they're just as much of a business as racing.

Here's what I think. In any event involving animals like racing, hunting, rodeo, etc...everyone is going to try and find all the negatives within that industry. Because what's more interesting than a controversial issue? That's what gets people talking, our entire media is based off of bad news and issues. Whenever you turn on the news you hear tragic and "bad news" more than good news. It's what interests people more. And unfortunately people tend to focus on the bad things more than the good things about issues, and the bad stick out more and is talked about more. This is what is happening in horse racing I believe. People tend to focus on the bad rather than the good. 

I have to agree with Maple. Drugs in racing is well controlled with lots of effort, but that doesn't mean racing is 100% drug free, it's impossible. But it's controlled as best as possible and they're doing a good job at it. I think that there are less drugs used in racing than we think. Look at all major sports, there are performance enhancing drugs used. They're controlled as best as possible with a lot of effort, but there are still some present.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Broken record alert for those who have seen some previous threads lol..

ponyboy - how do you know that I don't care about my horses? Those of us involved in racing didn't just wake up one day and say "i know nothing about horses but i want to work in horse racing to make money". You don't just wake up one day with the ability to train/ride a horse and do it successfully. I have yet to meet somebody involved in racing that has not climbed the ranks of kids ponies, pony club/4h, riding schools and up to racing. We all learned to ride just like anybody else - stemming from the initial love of the horse. Those of us who WORK sure as heck aren't doin it for the money - there is little financial thanks for the hours and efforts we put into it. 

Yes, I am coming across defensive, and I feel the need to be. _You do not know ME_ or how I feel about my horses, I LOVE my horses just like everybody else on this forum, why would I be here if I didn't?.. because I am involved in a sport _you_ do not approve of, does not make you any better than me. 

And yes, they do need this quality of care. It is the same quality of care MY horse needs. It is the same quality of care every horse needs. I see plenty of riding schools using 3yos for jumping lessons around here. Plenty of riding schools who's horses are tacked up 7am on Sat and used by numerous riders until 5 or 6 that night. Horses used by beginners because they are so crippled with arthritis they can barely move, still being used several times a day. It's a shame they can't avail of HALF the treatment the TBs get. 

My gelding, an ISH, gets regular visits from dentist, chiro, blacksmith - hes used as a hacking horse and solely for my enjoyment with no competition - he's still fully entitled to be at his healthiest and happiest. (I know this prob sounds odd since Im one of those racing people who doesnt care).

As I have stated, the authorities do what they can and there is strict drug testing. With competition of ANY nature you will get the bad eggs - Waterford Crystal (Cian O'Connors mount at the Olympics who tested positive and they had their gold medal taken off them) Lance Armstrong (cycling), Marion Jones (track), Andre Agazzi (tennis), Ben Johnson... the list goes on and on and on. The drug testing in racing is incredibly strict, horses are subjected to random tests and winners are tested directly after a race. I personally have never met a trainer/owner/jockey who would willingly give a horse drugs that would enhance their performance or cover up pain. Not saying it won't happen elsewhere.

As for the nurse mare farms - yup they happen. Can't argue that. So.... how bout them PMU barns.... ? 

I also want to touch briefly on the jockey issue - I can't speak for the entire world obviously but here they have gone very indepth into nutrition management for jockeys. They are holding lectures, private meetings and trying to advise all jockeys on what to do in order to maintain their weight in the healthiest matter. There are rules set up with minimum riding weights so that they can't be pushed to ride too light. The majority of jockeys are of a smaller stature anyway, and you would be amazed by the amount I have seen some eat. They work out, sweat and jog - so does my cousin who is a swimsuit model.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Maple said:


> ponyboy - how do you know that I don't care about my horses? Those of us involved in racing didn't just wake up one day and say "i know nothing about horses but i want to work in horse racing to make money".


Just like any other industry, it's not the people on the front lines of racing that make the big money. But just because _you're_ not motivated by money doesn't mean racing as a whole isn't. And there are LOTS of people who do low-paying jobs because they like them. 

I actually just quit a job because I developed a moral issue with the industry I was in and couldn't continue to support it with a good conscience. I didn't become a jockey for the same reason (I'm 5'3", 105 Ibs soaking wet). 




Maple said:


> And yes, they do need this quality of care. It is the same quality of care MY horse needs. It is the same quality of care every horse needs. I see plenty of riding schools using 3yos for jumping lessons around here. Plenty of riding schools who's horses are tacked up 7am on Sat and used by numerous riders until 5 or 6 that night. Horses used by beginners because they are so crippled with arthritis they can barely move, still being used several times a day. It's a shame they can't avail of HALF the treatment the TBs get.


No, all horses don't need the same care. Some horses don't need shoes or blankets or even grain for that matter. It depends on their breed, the climate they are living in, how much they are ridden and how good their conformation is. 

As for your comments about the riding school – yes, that's bad. I stopped going to one school because I didn't like how they treated their horses and it wasn't nearly that bad. I'm not sure how often our school horses were ridden but they got turn out every day and were definitely not left tacked up. We had 20 year old horses who were still sound. I know some trail barns are quite bad and I don't go to them for that reason.



> As for the nurse mare farms - yup they happen. Can't argue that. So.... how bout them PMU barns.... ?


Old that's right, since those other people do bad things it's okay for you to do them too. How silly of me! In fact, now that I think of it, since there's abuse in every discipline that makes it all okay, doesn't it? Well that's a relief… Now we can all just accept all kinds of horse abuse and go on with our lives!


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

*sigh* ponyboy...

I have a feeling you are going to find fault with anything I post... simnply based on the fact that us racing people are _eeeevil_ but here we go...

It is a business, and every business is driven to make money to get by. For every Bob Baffert, Aiden Obrien, Luca Cumani; there are thousands of trainers who live week to week with little financial gain in order to do the job they love. The deciding factor in going into racing is the love for the horse. Owners can be a different story, some will do it for the horses, some for the money.. all of our owners genuinely care for their horses and make regular visits to see them. Unless you have taken the time to look at the incomings/outgoings of a trainer you can't just assume they are making plenty of money. 

As for not becoming a jockey... size means nothing. I've met plenty of young wannabe jocks who were about as useful on a horse as a noodle. I've seen hundreds of kids go through RACE and not be able to ride a barstool. Just because you are small, doesn't mean you'll get anywhere in the business.

I also didn't say anything about *all *horses requiring rugs/blankets, shoes or feed... I said that all horses deserve the best *QUALITY *of care.

The PMU barn point - I thought I was an obvious that unfort these things happen throughout the equine world. Nurse mares are not restricted to TBs, nurse mares are used for plenty of warmblood studs, ect. It's unfortunate but it's a fact of life that a lot of horses have a job, and a purpose of life. Much like many other domesticated animals... they aren't all backyard pets - thats just a fact of life when it comes to the equine industry.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Racing in the UK, Europe and Australia is much tougher than in the US.

I think that the US needs to sharpen up the racing industry.

Absolutely* NO* drugs are allowed. This includes Bute and Lasix. This means that if a horse is just 'sore' it cannot be masked so therefore will not race.

With all the modern surfaces racing still takes place on dirt, or mud if it rains. This is not a consistent surface and will wear on any horse's legs.

All racing is done in one direction - never good for balance. 

The best thing about racing in the US and I wish other countries would follow, is having the outriders about the course and leading the horses down. If there is an accident they can be there fast to hold a horse with another horse in attendance to calm it.

I find US racing boring. Little challenge of up and down hills, or running in either direction.

Another thing about UK racing is that no horses are trained at the tracks, they are all in different yards and therefore get a greater diversity of work. 

Far, far less fatal race injuries if the two are compared.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

> It's unfortunate but it's a fact of life that a lot of horses have a job, and a purpose of life. Much like many other domesticated animals... they aren't all backyard pets - thats just a fact of life when it comes to the equine industry.


This contradicts your assertion that what you do is all about loving horses. They're not pets to you, they are a means to an end – Which is okay provided that the sport is good at keeping a lid on abusive practices. But the racing industry is NOT good at this, and from what I can see they have no interest in getting better.

As Foxhunter Points out, there quite a few differences between American and British racing, with many fewer accidents in British racing. Why then do Americans keep doing things the way they do? Why don't they emulate the British system? The only possible answer is that they don't care enough to bother.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

ponyboy said:


> This contradicts your assertion that what you do is all about loving horses. They're not pets to you, they are a means to an end – Which is okay provided that the sport is good at keeping a lid on abusive practices. But the racing industry is NOT good at this, and from what I can see they have no interest in getting better.
> 
> As Foxhunter Points out, there quite a few differences between American and British racing, with many fewer accidents in British racing. Why then do Americans keep doing things the way they do? Why don't they emulate the British system? The only possible answer is that they don't care enough to bother.


It contradicts nothing - because a horse has a job/purpose does not mean the handlers do not love them. You are just trying to make a point where no point exists. My daughter's pony has a job - its to teach and take care of my kid. If it isn't doing that job to the best of it's abilities, I have no need for it and it will have to find a home elsewhere. My horse has a job, it is to give me relaxation and "therapy" from my every day life... if I wasn't enjoying him I wouldn't keep him as it would not benefit anybody. Doesn't mean I don't love the pony or my horse.. 


Foxhunter - just a quick one, in the UK/IRE horses do run on both left and right handed tracks. As far as I'm aware, and I may be wrong, in the US/Can it is always the same direction.


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## Horse racer (Jun 28, 2012)

Got a question for you Foxhunter too, in UK/IRE do the horses start racing 2 years old like here in the U.S. or do they start older. Honestly the only problem, and it's not a problem the bugs me a ton, but I don't like that horses are started racing at 2 it's a little young and I think yall mentioned this in pervious posts.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

change takes time in any sport. To generalize that the US racing industry does not care, is insulting. I guess there is no animal abuse or issues regarding racing in other countries. (ya right)
and i dont believe in PETA,.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Horse racer said:


> Got a question for you Foxhunter too, in UK/IRE do the horses start racing 2 years old like here in the U.S. or do they start older. Honestly the only problem, and it's not a problem the bugs me a ton, but I don't like that horses are started racing at 2 it's a little young and I think yall mentioned this in pervious posts.



Yes, 2 year old horses race in the UK. They are broken as long yearlings. I am not a fan of racing so young but, 2 year old races do not start until April/May times. 
The fact that racing in the UK is on grass makes a big difference as it is more giving than an artificial surface. Courses are watered if the weather is dry (fat chance in recent years) and most are land drained to take excess water.

The other big difference is that two year old horses generally have far fewer starts then in the US. 

I will say that I find in hard to not think that many (obviously not all) Americans are hypocritical in that they think nothing of working 2 year old horses for the show ring where they are made to move at ridiculously slow paces which is very unnatural, for WP classes yet think racing is so bad.

Laws over animal welfare are far stricter in the UK and generally adhered to. 

Majority of racehorses have a good life. A lot of money is involved and what the average horseman does not realise is just how much of that money is put into equine research which benefits all horse owners.


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