# Driver License Classes & Hauling Trailers



## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

Yes another reason to not live in CA.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

CA is NOT the only state that has such requirements. Guess no one should live in those states either ...


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I think there are a few issues happening that people are now being questioned & ticketed about....
People hauling horses for profit...
When pulled and asked for paperwork if yours isn't all in agreement {coggins in several names, several addresses} it raises questions...
You also have behemoth rigs some with 5th wheel plates not goosenecks and that_* is*_ a CDL must-have...
Those 2 things alone, along with lately infectious outbreaks and horses traveling without proper paperwork has many on high-alert.
Take the illegal shipper and _not_ paying the road-use-tax and yes, many trailers are now being stopped, paperwork checked and inspected and fines issues for not being in compliance with that states law and now agricultural laws.
Today law enforcement is more educated about agricultural issues...livestock.
With illegal slaughter houses, stolen horses on the rise, illegal shippers and not having the paperwork that proves you are a private person on vacation, going to a horse show or trail ride....

To me, seems like a smart thing to do to make sure that those behind the wheel driving those big rigs are held to higher standards. Not just horse trailers, but those huge camping trailers...
They aren't little, they do take more skill and knowledge to drive them safely on roads with other traffic and you better believe you use those taught skills you were required to prove you have when you possess a CDL...
Those sharing the road with you make you understanding the extra skills needed to drive those behemoths a safer motorist....

_And yes, I do have a CDL._
I am held to stricter rules & standards than the average "regular" driver...
That makes me a more careful, skilled and watchful driver which in turn makes it safer for you the average motorist with me on the road.
I'm totally in favor of stricter standards for those towing anything, including a 2 horse trailer.
_You have to be better than just a so-so driver as many are today....your life is at stake and so are those sharing the road with you!
And you need better than just so-so equipment that matches vehicle towed with tow vehicle...
_ :runninghorse2:....


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Instead of people Making a big deal out of nothing on FB,which is loaded with drama queens, IMHO, just call the local DMV and ask.

At the very least the DMV should know the dot gov web site to get the information.

^^^what*HLG* said, too.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

The highway patrol is really cracking down on this in Texas, too. They are also cracking down on the size of truck in relation to the trailer.

Eta: as horselovinguy said....his post was not there...


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

greentree said:


> They are also cracking down on the size of truck in relation to the trailer.


^^^boy does that make my day! I am so weary people trying to save money by under-trucking themselves. Sooner or later that will bite them in the arwse if they do any amount of driving.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

@horselovinguy - thanks! Perfect input.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

A buddy said, after witnessing a pick up/horse trailer tragedy, "just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you can drive it." I say, "Or stop it."

I got my CDL A when I knew I'd be hauling large rigs with horses. Initially for insurance purposes, but I learned a lot after investing in some private lessons. 

Never regretted it. And, I can go anywhere.


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## george the mule (Dec 7, 2014)

Hmmm.

A bit off-topic, but I, for one, am all in favor of cracking down on sh*tty drivers; pulling a trailer or not. IMO, it ought to be a _lot_ tougher to get _and_ keep a drivers license.

And bicyclists on the highway; don't _even_ get me started . . . 

Steve


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

In my state you have to take classes to ride a motorcycle but not to drive a semi pulling a 36ft LQ horse trailer so long as it is not for commercial use...As soon as the rig is used for commercial purposes different laws come into effect.

Put me in the category of not minding extra licensing requirements for pulling trailers of all stripes. I say all because I run into more idiots yanking a camp trailer down the road than horse trailers. FYI, the elephant in the room is money. People with money make up the bulk of those huge LQ trailers, camp trailers and Class C RV's we see on the road. Until such time as they agree a law change is needed it wont happen, after all they are who make up the bulk of money donated to your local politicians.


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## ChitChatChet (Sep 9, 2013)

george the mule said:


> And bicyclists on the highway; don't _even_ get me started . . .
> 
> Steve


Oh! YES!!! The bicyclists.... Ack!


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

ChitChatChet said:


> Oh! YES!!! The bicyclists.... Ack!


Grrr, the bicyclist! Way to many of those idiots don't understand that they have to follow the same rules of the road as everyone else and ride like they have a death wish.


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## jimj911 (Aug 12, 2009)

Somewhat new to the forum, signed up a long time ago but never really used it till now. I completely agree in that the weight that can be pulled nowadays is much more than it used to be by simple pickup trucks. I have a CDL A but you need at least a CDL B to haul over 10k lbs in combination in PA.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

boots said:


> A buddy said, after witnessing a pick up/horse trailer tragedy, "just because you can afford it, doesn't mean you can drive it." I say, "Or stop it."i
> 
> I got my CDL A when I knew I'd be hauling large rigs with horses. Initially for insurance purposes, but I learned a lot after investing in some private lessons.
> 
> Never regretted it. And, I can go anywhere.


 @boots-did you take the private lessons specifically on driving the horse trailer, or was it general prep for getting the CDL license? And how did you go about finding an instructor?

I don't currently have a trailer though do dream of the flexibility of having one to get to state parks; many in my state have trails for horses and it feels like I'm missing great opportunities. But the whole process of learning to drive the trailer feels very intimidating. My husband's current truck could do the job for my tiny mare, but I would want us both to have some instruction before putting her behind us...


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I had driven large tractors with trailers for hauling hay at that time, so I initially took the lessons for hauling 10 and 12 horse trailers. I find live cargo to impact the way a vehicle handles. And I decided to be legal!

I work around people (not just guys) that pull large trailers with horses and cattle pods around the country. I asked them to coach me. Some of the people owned their rigs, others had to square it with the owners. 

In 2016, I found it easier just to haul my cattle myself. And I also haul for one set of friends. I'm slow, but I don't care. I'm not having to work for a company. I don't know how pro drivers do it.

I know I can still have a wreck, I hope I never do. But, WOW, the drivers who coached me were excellent. I learned so much! It was really interesting.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Sounds like a great experience @boots! We're just happy hackers so would never need something more than a simple 2-horse. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in the kind of vehicle you're driving! 

My problem is that our horsey network is very limited and I can only think of one person I'd be able to ask to teach us. I had a really hard time just finding someone I could pay to haul my horse 30 minutes to a new barn when we moved this fall...I've looked around for formal classes we could sign up for but never found anything.


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## 98ramtough (Nov 15, 2016)

I think it is getting to the point where they should require a different license for any trailer. It is frustrating with people that cannot back trailers, especially at boat launches. i hate more regulation, but it gets old and too many people getting into accidents. I think newer vehicles and made this almost worse with how much power they have. I see a lot of people doing 80mph pulling hills with large loads, then they go down the hill the same speed. The saying used to be that you go down a hill with a load the same speed as you go up it. Back in those days people pulling a large trailer were doing 40mph up the hill. The new diesel pickups pull the same load 70-80mph up that hill no problem. 

How many people do you think test the trailer brakes? Most don't. A lot of people don't even know how to use the trailer break that is factory installed in their vehicle.

As a guy that often has a camper on the back of my truck and pulling a trailer behind it, I get really scared watching people speeding with a 3000lb camper in the back of their truck. One flat tire in your life will cure that urge to speed!


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

egrogan said:


> Sounds like a great experience @boots! We're just happy hackers so would never need something more than a simple 2-horse. I can't imagine what it would be like to be in the kind of vehicle you're driving!
> 
> My problem is that our horsey network is very limited and I can only think of one person I'd be able to ask to teach us. I had a really hard time just finding someone I could pay to haul my horse 30 minutes to a new barn when we moved this fall...I've looked around for formal classes we could sign up for but never found anything.


I would ask that one person. Last summer one of my kids taught the person she worked for how to pull the woman's smallish 4-horse. And I've coached a few friends on backing. A man I worked for made me back both a gooseneck and a bumper pull allll over a pasture when I was needing to learn. 

A place that sells trailers in Billings, MT offers a few lessons to its buyers who are new to pulling trailers. I think that is wonderful.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

In addition to CDL requirements, make sure you know the state's requirements for weight and stopping at weigh stations. In NC, noncommercial horse transport of 5 or more horses must stop at weigh stations.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I wish they would make AG stations and weigh stations uniform state to state in requirements of stopping or not, who has to or not....._that goes for horse trailers and camping trailers..._
How long-haul truckers keep it straight is beyond me. 

_As for CDL licensing...._
It is time with road congestion, more and more people have "expendable" cash so they go out and purchase these behemoth horse, camping trailers or motorhomes and are not required to have any training in how to drive them, be a good road warrior or anything.
Hand them the key and get out as fast as you can make them leave. A sale is cash in hand...
Saw a brand new $150000.00 plus motorhome pulling a large enclosed car trailer the other day. Hit the curb with the motorhome and took down the light pole with the trailer..._are you kidding me!! _
_He didn't realize it was in the way.:icon_rolleyes:

_When "rigs", yes rigs are having air-brake systems it is time for "Joe-Smoe" to be better trained, have the same DOT physical requirements of annual/semi-annual physical and pass the darn thing to drive them.
_Yup, stepping on some of your rights..._
My rights though need to be taken into consideration that I am safe traveling the roads next to those behemoth camper trailers, motorhomes and horse-trailer living-quarters rigs on wheels.
_Yes, I *do* have a CDL, I have the extra training and knowledge behind the wheel to be a safe driver sharing the road with all._
Today it _isn't_ the way it used to be either of road courtesy...
Today so many are only for themself and love to play chicken with horse trailers and see how much they can scare, crowd or taunt you..."road rage" is a stupid game done to you especially when you're pushing large weights and many times to much speed to stop in a emergent situation...
Actually, idiots play games with many "rigs" hauling down the road and leave a path of destruction and mayhem behind...
_ 
Time to SLOW DOWN and leave more room between you and the guy in front of you....*stop tailgating!*
:hide:...apologies but a pet peeve of mine!

__It is great that we can share our hard-earned learned knowledge of how to handle both forward and reverse motion driving a truck & trailer, those selling the darn things new need to make sure, be held accountable that that "sale" pulling out the drive is indeed a safe rig with not being over-loaded on the tow vehicle, hands-on knowledge of how to drive and back the thing...
Some dealers do a great job, sadly some dealers just want the sale and cash not caring if you are properly equipped and road-safe or not...just make the sale!!
If you buy used the responsibility of being prepared, safely equipped with adequate tow vehicle and behind the wheel experience falls upon YOU to learn and be road-smart!
It needs to be up to us though, if you register it and own it you also can competently drive it!! 
That is a safe and smart driver behind the wheel.
Police ourselves or get policed by the law and rules of the road...

:runninghorse2:_........
_jmo..._


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Well said @horselovinguy. Couldn't agree with you more!

There is a huge discussion on this on a CA Trailer FB page. I started following it because I was thinking of getting a small LQ (2-3 horse). Reading that site and the CA DMv site, including the Commercial Driver Handbook, I'd have to at least upgrade my license to a Class A - question would be commercial or non-commercial. I thought Non-Commercial but some people on that site stated they were stopped and ticketed for not having a commercial license since they were showing horses at shows that gave out money and prizes (thus a "commercial" effort). I think I could probably fight that in court if I got ticketed as my horse showing is a hobby and I'm not usually in the prize/money winning category. But it is still a concern.


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## SwissMiss (Aug 1, 2014)

egrogan said:


> I don't currently have a trailer though do dream of the flexibility of having one to get to state parks; many in my state have trails for horses and it feels like I'm missing great opportunities. But the whole process of learning to drive the trailer feels very intimidating. My husband's current truck could do the job for my tiny mare, but I would want us both to have some instruction before putting her behind us...


When I started to borrow my riding instructor's truck and trailer I got a lesson on how to hook it up and test before driving. Then we spent a loooong afternoon on the road. And lots of big parking lots, driving circles, practicing turns and what not.... 
And I keep on practicing :wink:


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

kew....
The part about commercial or non-commercial....
To me, _my opinion is... _
You drive a privately owned truck and trailer that falls within specific weight limits and possibly length overall....
You do not ship others, period. 
Nor receive a penny for shipping {I hope} as once you do that you are a "For Hire" coach and that now opens a whole new bunch of regulations commercial livestock shippers must follow. 
If you do ship and take any $ from anyone for it, whether one dollar or more, you then should have commercial shippers insurance to cover your butt in the event of a incident... You are open to a lawsuit and your regular insurance will not cover you if the animals injured are not owned by you exclusively.
If you look closely at some of those rigs on the road they have "PRIVATE - NOT FOR HIRE" usually visible on the over-bed gooseneck section of the rig.. That supposedly insulates them from some of the issues of large rigs and horses = business that many think go together. It makes them private use only._
:runninghorse2:.....
_


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks @horselovinguy, that was my thought too, but nice to have a CDL driver's opinion/confirmation.

Something, too, that was brought to light in looking at what I wanted to haul and my current license is that it is the GVWR of the trailer that would bump you up from a Class C to a Non-Commercial Class A license. In CA if the _*trailer*_ has a GVWR of 10,001+ lbvs. you need a Class A. If the trailer has a GVWR less than 26,001 lbs. you can get a restriction for hauling under 26,001 (don't know if that has any effect on fees charged or not). 

So while some of the trailers I am browsing weigh _*under*_ 10,001 lbs., they have a GVWR of 12,000+, which means, there is no way around me having to get a Class A to be legal hauling. And based on the recent discussion on the FB site (which has experienced haulers & not so experienced) there are many drivers out there hauling illegally. When they get pulled over, they can/will/are ticketed and have to get a *properly licensed* driver to move their rig from that point. 

Another point brought up, which is confirmed by the consensus, is the the DMV and CHP are not in accord on what license is required for what type of rig. Even within those organizations, people are getting different answers by who ever you talk to and when they call different offices. So even if the DMV says one thing one day, it could say another on a different day by a different office which could be totally different from what the CHP officer says who stops you.

It pays to check our your state's laws; seems like if you are hauling a gooseneck, the GVWR could be over the limit for a Class C license and you may be hauling illegally. 

I certainly appreciate everyone's helpful thoughts and comments on this issue. I never really thought about it before I considered upgrading my trailer. Now, I have so much more to think about, including lessons! I think I know someone who could spot me some. :wink:

Edited to add: this site has a list by state of types of driver licenses and their requirements. FYI


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## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

There are the Federal DOT regs and then the state's. I would like to see the laws changed to required a retest of everyone every 5 to 6 years. We have people who can no longer see and don't know the new rules on the road, like keep to the right. In Alabama, new drivers must pass a test to be licensed to drive a boat or drive a motorcycle. How about a test to pull *any trailer*. I can not count the number of boat trailers I have passed broken down on the side of the road. Or a hay trailer that lost its load. And yes, I have lost a roll of hay on the road. But I stopped and cleaned it up and learned how to tie it down better. I don't know how many big rigs (CDLs) around here that haul rock and never cover their load as required by state law. They think that having a sign on the back of the truck that says stay back 300 feet cover them. *It does not*. Or someone hauling firewood and it falling out going down the road. 
Some that I hate to see are the horse trailers going down the road at 80mph. I don't know of any trailer tires that are rated to go that fast.


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## RMH (Jul 26, 2016)

Here is a link to an Extension publication which summarizes the rules in MD https://www.extension.umd.edu/sites...ses/FS-964 HorseTransportationRegulations.pdf The table on page 2 is fairly straight forward. Perhaps there are similar publications for other states. So long as your horse activity is non commercial you can drive any combination of truck and trailer less than 26,001 pounds on a normal class C license. If you make any money from your activity such as 4-H horse show premiums or winnings from a barrel race you become commercial and need the appropriate CDL license and perhaps a DOT # if you travel out of state.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

RMH said:


> Here is a link to an Extension publication which summarizes the rules in MD https://www.extension.umd.edu/sites...ses/FS-964 HorseTransportationRegulations.pdf The table on page 2 is fairly straight forward. Perhaps there are similar publications for other states. So long as your horse activity is non commercial you can drive any combination of truck and trailer less than 26,001 pounds on a normal class C license. If you make any money from your activity such as 4-H horse show premiums or winnings from a barrel race you become commercial and need the appropriate CDL license and perhaps a DOT # if you travel out of state.


In other words, if anyone makes any money the government wants a cut.


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