# Luna's Stay



## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

This is my friends mare, Luna. She is a OTTB and she came to my place about a week ago and she needs to gain weight and muscle we just started feeding beet pulp which she seems to love  and the three horses get between 1 and 1/2 and two bales of hay a day not including a 5 acre pasture and she has access to a spring fed creek 24/7. The first picture is when she first arrived and the second was taken pretty late last night.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Another picture of Luna


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Pictures of Luna from tonight she looks like shes gaining some weight nicely


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

More pictures of Luna the first and third is when she first came the second and last is from today


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

In your third post it looks like you've been riding her? Personally I wouldn't until she has gained the weight that she definitely needs (good job for feeding her up!) - any exercise you do will just be burning the calories that you want her to be putting on in fat. I understand that you want to muscle her up, but that's not going to happen until she is in an equal or positive energy balance - where her body is using as many, or less calories than she is being fed. Once she has that +/= energy balance, then those calories can start being used to build muscle, else she is just going to stay underweight, or take _much _ longer to see the results you want.

Obviously, it's your friend's horse, so we can only advise. She looks like a sweetie!


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

IndiesaurusRex said:


> In your third post it looks like you've been riding her? Personally I wouldn't until she has gained the weight that she definitely needs (good job for feeding her up!) - any exercise you do will just be burning the calories that you want her to be putting on in fat. I understand that you want to muscle her up, but that's not going to happen until she is in an equal or positive energy balance - where her body is using as many, or less calories than she is being fed. Once she has that +/= energy balance, then those calories can start being used to build muscle, else she is just going to stay underweight, or take _much _ longer to see the results you want.
> 
> Obviously, it's your friend's horse, so we can only advise. She looks like a sweetie!


She is a sweetie but it wasnt from riding i was lunging her with a saddle on. Im working on a headset which she loses when she has a saddle on so i was lunging her with the saddle on but at the same time asking for a headset and it had been really hot that day.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

danicelia24 said:


> She is a sweetie but it wasnt from riding i was lunging her with a saddle on. Im working on a headset which she loses when she has a saddle on so i was lunging her with the saddle on but at the same time asking for a headset and it had been really hot that day.


She doesn't need to be doing any work at this point, you'll just delay her gaining weight.


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## IndiesaurusRex (Feb 23, 2011)

danicelia24 said:


> She is a sweetie but it wasnt from riding i was lunging her with a saddle on. Im working on a headset which she loses when she has a saddle on so i was lunging her with the saddle on but at the same time asking for a headset and it had been really hot that day.


It may be worth waiting until she has put all the weight back on, then having a saddle fitter out to check the fit of her saddle. It may be fitting differently now/then due to the weight and muscle fluctuation - the fact that her "headset" is altered indicates to me that it's causing discomfort.

Also, if you want to build her topline, you want to be asking her to come through from behind with her head long and low, rather than asking for a headset. A pretty head and neck set with no balance coming through from the hind quarters will just end up with a stiff, improperly muscled neck and no topline. I say this meaning after she has gained the weight.

Good luck with her!


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

thank you guys! Since this is not my horse I will talk to the owner about waiting till after she has gotten into better body condition and weight to start riding and working her. And when I mean headset i dont just want their head to be pretty I want them to be working their entire body but I dont want them to have a beautiful way of moving and a good looking body just to look at the head and see it looking uncomfortable. My mustang mare I have never tried to force a headset on her to make her look pretty she does it fairly naturally as long as I am engaging the rest of her body but if she starts raising her head to high i do ask her to lower it. That is what Luna's owner wants me to work with on her. She also wants to show her in 4-h this year though i have reccomended having her use my horse and wait to use hers.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

danicelia24 said:


> thank you guys! Since this is not my horse I will talk to the owner about waiting till after she has gotten into better body condition and weight to start riding and working her. And when I mean headset i dont just want their head to be pretty I want them to be working their entire body but I dont want them to have a beautiful way of moving and a good looking body just to look at the head and see it looking uncomfortable. My mustang mare I have never tried to force a headset on her to make her look pretty she does it fairly naturally as long as I am engaging the rest of her body but if she starts raising her head to high i do ask her to lower it. That is what Luna's owner wants me to work with on her. She also wants to show her in 4-h this year though i have reccomended having her use my horse and wait to use hers.


Just explain to the owner that any work at this point will just delay her gaining weight and make it take longer. As well I don't there's a saddle that fits her well with her in this current condition, so that is a factor as well.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Ok i will. The owner is suppose to come out tomorrow so i will talk to her then


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Luna seems to be gaining weight nicely but she had a slight setback training wise as she hurt her leg but it is all better just a small scab now.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

How long will she be staying with you? Will she be fed well when she moves away from your place?

I don't see much weight improvement in the recent pictures. She's got a ways to go. But her eyes look do look more alert and her expression looks happier/calm. And that's something...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

CLaPorte432 said:


> How long will she be staying with you? Will she be fed well when she moves away from your place?
> 
> I don't see much weight improvement in the recent pictures. She's got a ways to go. But her eyes look do look more alert and her expression looks happier/calm. And that's something...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She will be staying till the end of June. And her owner will move her back to her house. She should be fed pretty well as she will be the only horse and they have about 6-8 acres of pasture for her alone. 
She also hasn't gained much but along her withers are filling in when you run your hand along it and her coat is getting more shiny than when she first came although the pictures are kinda dark cause it was getting ready to storm. She just needs to fill out along her hips and her side then she needs some conditioning to build up her topline.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Some new pictures from today! I think Luna is looking great and since we opened the second pasture she looks to be gaining even more weight


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This horse is painfully thin still. Another 200 pounds _or more_ IMO are needed.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

In the one photo I have circled the poor line on her rump and the ribs. This is not ribs slightly visible.. this is you can count every one! 

In the other photo I have circled her back bone into her coupling.. and it is like the ridge of a roof! The horse in the background that I circled is what this horse should look like. 

She might have ulcers. She is a nice horse too. Way too nice to look like this or to be worked at all while in this condition!!!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This horse needs to be fed and brought up to weight. That will take until at least September. THEN she could be put into training.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I would love to keep her and bring her up more but the owner takes her home the end of this month and she plans on showing her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chokolate (Nov 24, 2012)

Well I don't know anything about getting horses to gain weight but the owner sure isn't going to win everything if you could play tunes on Luna's ribs...


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The owner needs to be educated. If she shows the horse I am sure people will speak up and they should. 

This is too nice a horse to be in this condition.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Luna today... maybe it's just me but she looks 110% better than she did but she still has a way to go.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

The only difference I see is her coat, as far as weight gain it doesn't look like she's gained much at all.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

A month and a half ago(top) vs. today(bottom):


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm still not thinking she looks much better. I actually think she looks better in the before pictures. Especially her hindend. And her neck looked fuller. 

Coats is healthier. But that's all the improvement I'm seeing.

Has a vet been consulted?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I think the owners vet is coming out the end of the month and I wish I had a before and after picture of her side cause thats where you can see the most improvement


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

*Colic????*

so while Luna is looking better today she did something really odd. When I pulled up to the pasture she was laying down in the field but when she came over to the barn she was sweating and walking odd. So I tied her up and was getting a bucket with water to cool her down when she laid down while tied! First thing that came to mind was colic but no rolling so I took her out to hand walk her and let her graze a little and she pooped and peed. Well she also laid down 4 more times only kinda rolled twice but she would just lay down and eat. Any thoughts?
























































Sorry for all the pics!


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

also two videos i took of her
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=640049792744665&set=vb.100002189507596&type=3&theater
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=640047782744866&set=vb.100002189507596&type=3&theater


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

I wouldn't say colic if she's eating and passing manure ok. Unless it was really mild gas colic perhaps? It could just be that she is really tired, she is underweight and as I understand it you have been riding/working her which definitely isn't good for her at this point. So she could just be plain tuckered out. With the horses that I've rehabbed back to a normal weight they all seemed to lay down a lot, there was never anything wrong with them, they just didn't have much energy. And any energy they had went into gaining weight, which is where hers should be going to be honest, not working/riding.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

She needs feed in her! she can live on pasture for months and she wont gain weight quick enough. I got my horse from skinnier than her to a normal weight in 5 months. She was being fed strategy healthy edge. And if i was able to feed it to her every day she would have gained it weight faster. She needs more than to be just tossed out into a field.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

KigerQueen said:


> She needs feed in her! she can live on pasture for months and she wont gain weight quick enough. I got my horse from skinnier than her to a normal weight in 5 months. She was being fed strategy healthy edge. And if i was able to feed it to her every day she would have gained it weight faster. She needs more than to be just tossed out into a field.


She gets fed 3 lbs of feed everyday
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

What feed? My TB gelding needed 8 lbs of senior feed to keep weight on, and that's with not being worked.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

1 lb of sweet feed And2 lbs beet pulp
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

I would take her off sweet feed, it's not good for horses. Then add in maybe a senior feed or something like Purina Strategy. And up the amount also. Horses this underweight need a lot more feed than what she's getting. Alfalfa (either in bale form or cubes) is good for putting weight on, as well as rice bran, and the horse needs to not be worked as well. It's just burning energy that needs to be going towards putting on weight. If she were mine personally she would be getting 2 lbs beet pulp, 2 lbs soaked alfalfa/timothy cubes, and 8 lbs of Triple Crown Senior. With it broke up into three feedings, as well as free choice hay. She needs to be on a diet similar to that.


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

sweet feed is garbage, its like feeding your child nothing but chocolate and chips everyday..... Put her on a senior feed, blue seal is fantastic, my TB mare does great on the blue seal sentinel performance LS, beet pulp & flax seed, plus her supplements, kelp, magnesium and glucosamine (preventative).

That mare is painfully thin, she needs to be properly rehabbed and not ridden until she has gained all the weight she needs back + a bit more, 200-250 pounds i would say. She will be a beautiful mare with the proper care.

You should read this please: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/care-emaciated-horse-100412/


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

Well done for achieving what you have done. I absolutely agree that working her, on the lunge or under saddle, is not yet appropriate.

But I am going to differ slightly for the other posters regarding her weight. Certainly she needs to continue to put the weight on, and I think the changes to feed mentioned are valuable. She's always going to be a poor doer, and I think the owner is always going to be watching her weight with concern.

But she's not now painfully emancipated. She appears to be typical of a certain lean type of thoroughbred. With these you will always be able to detect the ribs - however much feed you pour into them. If anyone is comparing her to a different breed type, like my chunky Canadians, or muscled QH's or natives, then that comparison is not valid.

I would have to see and feel her in person to really have a view on her condition, but I do put in a word of caution that the "rib test" is not always valid for TB's.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Well I will do what I can since it is not my horse and the owner said yesterday when she came out that she looks a ton better then when she came she said she actually looks fat from the last time she saw her though I would love to see her gain along her spine and hips which she has gained a lot along her hind quarters which like I said before I wish I had before pictures to better show that
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

^ while a agree with the rib test on TBs i still think this horse can gain ALOT more weight. OP good that you are giving her feed but as been said, sweet feed is crap, and causes more issues than helps. A good senior feed should help.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Ok I will have owner get a senior feed and alfalfa cubes for her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

And if you look all of my personal horses are nice and plump with the exception of my sisters horse who is getting on a better feed as well and I just call their feed sweet feed cause it has A LITTLE molasses but is mostly a mixed feed will take a picture later also forgot to add that Luna had thrown a shoe the day before this happened
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equaeternal (May 8, 2014)

Her coat looks a million times better. My suggestion is maybe try mixing some sweet feed and some grain together for her. I agree with the above poster she does need grain, obviously ease her into eating the grain but definitely add some to her diet. As for your question regarding her laying down. I don't think its colic just that she is resting. I know when a horse lays down it's easy to get that uh-oh feeling but from my experience if a horse is eating normally usually there isn't a problem the problem is when they stop eating. Her sweating is probably due to her being so underweight. It is hard for a horse to regulate their body temperature when they are so skinny, these horses can get to hot and cold flashes since it takes so many calories to maintain body temperature


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

This horse was having some gas colic from the very rapidly growing green grass. If she were mine I would pull her off of grass for about 16 hours out of 24 hours. I would feed her 5 pounds of alfalfa cubes and gradually work her up to about 8 pounds of a pelleted complete feed (the senior feed recommended would be good). I would supplement all of this with good quality grass hay free choice. I would turn her out early morning and bring her in early afternoon. 

Grass is not what she needs. The fact that she is eating it greedily and gas colic is going on could lead to full blown colic AND FOUNDER. 

I look at this horse and you have NO IDEA how much I wish she were my horse because she is nicely built and I would love to lay a foundation on her.. she might make a very good eventing mount. I wish she was mine for other reasons as well and all of those have to do with stable management to bring her to where her conformation potential could be effectively put to work. 

The fact that her owner would say she looked FAT compared to how she WAS tells me that her owner knows abominably little about what condition scores are or what a horse SHOULD look like. 

You posted two photos.. one with winter coat facing the LH side of the page and one with summer coat and in nearly the same exact stance facing the LH side of the page below it. If you cannot see that her ribs look the same, that her should still looks skeletal and her point of shoulder pops out due to the emaciated condition of her neck.. if you cannot see her prominent hip bones and that she is still terribly thin and there is NO DIFFERENCE other than the condition of her coat.. then there is not much more I can add. 

I can only add the following image of a horse I rescued. Your client's horse looks like #1 and should look like #2. BTW this was taken in 1976 and to get from the horse in the top photo to the horse in the bottom photo took *9 months of good worming and good feed.*


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Coming from you Elana that is quite a compliment to Luna. And I have a jump set up in my field for my sister to practice on and I was watching the horses run around and Luna easily cleared the 3ft jump that was set up(I was in the process of cleaning up). Also here are some pictures from today.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

So I took some pics of Luna today and she is really looking a lot better. She has become quite lame in her hind end even though she hasn't been used or had anything done cept been fed for two weeks. Her lameness just started Friday and has gotten a little better but not much. She has been lame before so the owner gave me her Cosequin to help her out which has been working and she is being kept away from the other horses for now.
Before:









Now:









Before:









Now:


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Those pictures look like they were taken on the same day. What is she being fed?


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

3 lbs beet pulp, .5 lbs sweet feed, 3 lbs alfalfa cubes(soaked), 2 lbs senior feed


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Hmm, I wonder why she isn't gaining then. Has she had her teeth done? When was the last time she was dewormed? When was the last time she was worked? I would also look into the lameness


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

SullysRider said:


> Hmm, I wonder why she isn't gaining then. Has she had her teeth done? When was the last time she was dewormed? When was the last time she was worked? I would also look into the lameness


Teeth: she is suppose to be getting them done this month.
Wormed: She was last wormed with Ivermectin 3 weeks ago.
Worked: the last time she was worked was at least two weeks cept a little showmanship every other day. But since Friday she hasnt been worked at all. 
Lameness: I checked all of her legs for heat/swelling and found nothing. I checked her feet for abscesses/bruises and found nothing. I checked her shoulder cause she had been dragging the toe a little when she walked and nothing seemed sore. I also checked her hip and also found nothing that was sore or ouchy.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Maybe she needs a fecal egg count done, she could still have a high worm load even after being dewormed. I think it's good for her not to be ridden or lunged. I don't think showmanship will make a big difference, so that's not bad. How long have you/the owner had her? She could possibly have some ulcers that are still clearing up. Keeping her on pasture/all she can eat hay and keeping her stress level down should help those clear up. Though she may need an omeprazole treatment to help them along. What do her feet look like? Perhaps post some photos of them asking for a critique as dragging is definitely not normal and the lameness could be caused by her feet.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

SullysRider said:


> Maybe she needs a fecal egg count done, she could still have a high worm load even after being dewormed. I think it's good for her not to be ridden or lunged. I don't think showmanship will make a big difference, so that's not bad. How long have you/the owner had her? She could possibly have some ulcers that are still clearing up. Keeping her on pasture/all she can eat hay and keeping her stress level down should help those clear up. Though she may need an omeprazole treatment to help them along. What do her feet look like? Perhaps post some photos of them asking for a critique as dragging is definitely not normal and the lameness could be caused by her feet.


The owner has had her 2 years? Ive had her for 2 months. Her feet were just done maybe a a week and a half ago she has shoes on the front and barefoot on the back. I can get pictures of them tomorrow. And right now she is in her own pasture cause I didnt want her to have to walk as much as she would have had to had she been in the normal pasture for water/food/shelter.


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

Her owner had her for 2 years and she's in such an abysmal state!?


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I looked at the before and now photos.. and other than a little more over her ribs there is little change. I suspect this horse has ulcers and I suspect back problems. 

Notice the uneven appearance of her spine.. which should be deeply covered in flesh. There is the point of croup and then a dip in front of it and a rise after that. I think something is going on up there.. and the croup itself seems a bit uneven. She is also "tucked under" at her flank. That would tell me she has some sort of pain going on. 

She is a nice horse needs to be scoped to find out if she has ulcers and then needs the hoards of money spent to treat them.. along with a spinal exam for her hind quarters and back (and this stuff can get pricey fast.. and is usually done at an Equine Hospital facility.. like Penn.. where Barbaro was taken). 

If the owner has no money for such things and the horse is still not gaining (and she just is not gaining) in spite of good pasture and the food you have listed then the kindest thing would be to put the horse down.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Elana- I think there was some pain in that area because at the time that picture was taken she was really lame in the hind end. 
***UPDATE***
Luna was being worked in showmanship yesterday since she was showing no signs of being lame and when the owner asked her to trot, her shoe went flying off. So went up to get the farrier and she had pulled the nails right threw her hoof so it looked like she had little mini gauges. Well the farrier fixed it and while he was looking he said that he thinks she may have abscessed on the front foot she was lame on, the weird thing to me was it was just above the coronary band. She is also getting mineral oil and a weight supplement with her feed. Today she was wormed had all her yearly shots and had her teeth done. My vet looked her over and said she does not think there is any underlying cause to her weight and that the feed schedule she is on should help her. The only thing she suggested was getting a couple round bales and letting her eat that as well. Which I had been planning on getting anyways. I would love to keep her longer and help her build up more but her owner will be taking her home at the end of the month.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Just saw the comment that the owner has had her for two years. I don't think she should be returned to the owner if that's how she ended up. I assumed she was a rescue from a starvation situation and that you were just boarding her for her new owner. She should have definitely gained more weight by now.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

She has owned her for two years. The owner had sent her to a trainer over the winter and she came back to her like this. She was in good condition last year when she had been shown. The trainer had put her out with 35 other horses and she was at the bottom of the food chain and they only got ONE round bale every other day.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Be careful about regularly putting mineral oil in feed. It has a tendency (for some reason) to get into the lungs and raise havoc.

Spraying for flies daily.. every morning.. can also help a horse to gain/maintain weight.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Mineral oil is not meant to be consumed. I would use corn or vegetable oil. They say canola oil is better for horses. I would HIGHLY suggest strategy healthy edge, It has fat "nuggets" in it as well as all the nutrients horses need and is meant t help horses put on weight fast. Sweet feed is like feeding her childrens cereal. It tastes good but is crap. If she gets picky about food you can add small amounts of sweet feed to other feed to get her to eat it.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Or just buy Molasses and add that.. because the sweet in sweet feed is nothing more than molasses.


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

Do not feed mineral oil, it is a laxative. It doesn't get digested like the other oils do. I'm not a fan of feeding oils period, but there's a reason they use mineral oil when horses colic.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

***UPDATE***
So the owner still took Luna to the show against advice but in an ironic twist she could not show because when Luna was pulled off the trailer at the show grounds she was so lame she could barely walk. We had some people look her over and they said it was her foot. So we had a farrier come out and they discovered the last time she was reset(about 12-14 days ago) the person(not the regular farrier but his son who is also a farrier just not as good) had put two nails up through her quick and they were abscessing. She had her foot soaked every couple of hours and by Sat. she could actually put her full weight on her foot and walk with only a little lameness but at a trot she was still very lame. On the plus side she got almost a full bale of hay(plus grain) and she is looking much better weight wise. I will post pictures of her tomorrow evening.

ETA: Her one front shoe was pulled but she was so sore that the other shoe could not be pulled because Luna couldn't bear to stand on the leg long enough for them to pull her other shoe.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm really confused. This horse is boarded with you, you had her shod two weeks ago and she was 3-legged lame from poor farrier work, but you didn't notice she was non-weight bearing and thought it was ok to take her to a show? 

Feeding one bale of hay on Saturday is not possibly going to magically improve this horse's condition.

I don't understand why no one will care for her properly. I get that she's not yours, but if she is under your care while boarded, why is there no intervention when she is abscessing and underweight? I'm sorry OP, I've been silently reading this thread since the beginning but it really sounds like someone needs to step up and care for this horse correctly as this is just a thread full of excuse after excuse.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Abscesses often travel up along the hoof wall and exit at the coronary band. This is common knowledge. 

There is NO EXCUSE for close nailing TWO nails. Thoroughbreds typically have thin hoof walls and so the farrier needs to be really good at his/her craft. 

Now here is the thing.. this horse is putting all her weight (or most of it) on one front foot. This can very quickly become more abscesses in the SOUND foot AND very very quickly develop into Founder. 

If a horse is abscessed in one front foot, so not bearing weight on it, and the other front foot either abscesses or founders (because it is doing all the weight bearing) it is likely the horse will go down.. and then there is little hope in a situation where there is no way to lift her, and the management is less than ideal. 

You probably do not realize you are very very close to LOSING this horse because it seems here is a nice, well bred horse in the hands of amateurs (and we all were amateurs at one time). The issue in not knowing is the animal often suffers even though no one intends her to!

This horse needs an equine VET. She REALLY needs to be at a Vet Hospital (and PA has one or two good ones!). She needs to be evaluated for ulcers, her feet treated, and then, when able to be released, go to a place with good feed, good stalls and housing, good fences, good paddocks and so forth. 

I expect this is beyond her owner's means and beyond your means as her trainer and so she is in a bad place.. and I feel very badly for her (especially being in so much pain). 

I hope you do not lose her. All I have to offer is that.. because what she needs she is not getting.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

egrogan said:


> I'm really confused. This horse is boarded with you, you had her shod two weeks ago and she was 3-legged lame from poor farrier work, but you didn't notice she was non-weight bearing and thought it was ok to take her to a show?
> 
> Feeding one bale of hay on Saturday is not possibly going to magically improve this horse's condition.
> \


She was not showing symptoms of being three-legged lame until she was being pulled off the trailer at the show. Again I advised the owner NOT to take the horse to the show but she did anyway. I know feeding one bale of hay isn't "magically" going to help her I was stating that it was a good thing that she was getting extra care and feed since she could not show but couldnt go home till the next day.. She is now fully bearing her weight on both front legs and is walking much better. Her foot is getting soaked every day twice a day for 45mins-1 hour. She has been getting two Bute in the morning as well to help with any pain/inflammation. She gets fed at the very least 8lbs of feed a day. I did have an equine vet come out and look at her and he did not think she had ulcers but has recommended putting her on ulcer guard which has been done. The vet also said to start her on body builder so that has also been added to her diet to help her gain more weight, but he even said that he can see the improvement she has been making. Here is a comparison of her back from last week vs. today.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The image on the right shows some improvement. She needs much more.

In the photo showing some improvement I have drawn in red how much she still needs to fill out. I have also circled the "poor Lines" or "poverty lines" on either side of her tail. 

Yes I do see improvement. She needs a lot more. Thoroughbreds can be tough to put and keep weight on but that needs to happen. 

If she is abscessed in her front foot, that needs to be drained (draining typically relieves the pain almost immediately). Then that foot is kept wrapped and is soaked and bandage changed daily (stall rest) for about a week (and I used cattle mastitis treatment in the hole in the sole cut by the vet). She is then shod, both front feet, with pads to let the hoof grow out. The pads on both feet help to insure that the good foot does not bruise and abscess as well! Soaking is great.. but getting the thing to drain is better. The abscess puts pressure on the internal structure of the hoof and the pressure can be significant and cause tremendous pain (like a bad tooth abscess) because it tries to swell, but cannot because it is surrounded by hoof.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

It has been drained as well that was done first after the shoe was taken off. I also agree that she needs MUCH more weight but I think the improvement is good since it is only a week between the two pictures.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

A quick picture I snapped of Luna today


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

pellets put on weight quick as well.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The photo of Luna from 7/24/2014 says it all. This horse is not improving or gaining. She just is not. Not really. 

Her expression is dull and she is painfully thin. Either she is receiving insufficient feed or insufficient quality feed or there is something very very wrong with this horse. IF the pasture is good and the other horses look good.. this horse is just plain ill.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I just went back to the photos from May 28 of this year. If it is possible, and it seems it should not be, this horse has actually deteriorated from May 28 and she was NOT in good shape then. 

I am to the point of wondering if she has cancer.. even though I do not see any lumps. This horse needs to be in a hospital (I think I have beat that drum before) and have a complete work up. She really and truly does. 

This is just plain sad.


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## Fahntasia (Dec 19, 2011)

I agree wholeheartedly with Elana, please have this horse vetted properly, she looks terribly ill.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Please OP, find a way to get this horse the care she needs.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

In all of this.. one thing I have said (and will say again).. is this horse has superior conformation. She just does. Every time I look at the side shots I just wish I had a horse put together this well. 

If whatever is wrong with this horse could be diagnosed and treated (if it is even treatable) she would be one heckuva horse. As she stands, she isn't even worth anything to the rendering plant. :-(


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

The owners board is about to run out but as it is she gets daily:
- A bale of hay between her and my pregnant mare
-3 lbs soaked beet pulp
-1.5 lbs grain
-1.5 lbs Dumor Senior 
-2 lbs soaked Alfalfa Cubes
-3 oz Dumor Weight Booster
-and 8 oz Body Builder(I forget the brand but it smells like bananas)
-also I gave her a little Corn Oil today
All the other horses are in good weight, health, and condition. She is on 24/7 turnout(no way to stable her otherwise she would be) with 24/7 access to nice fresh cool water and a salt lick. I agree the pic doesn't do her justice in person she really is looking better but I agree about the vet check-up and I have suggested to the Owner about getting a blood workup done on her but Owner hasn't contacted me nor has she come to see her in the past week and a half.


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## skiafoxmorgan (Mar 5, 2014)

Hun, the picture doesn't LIE. That's the miracle of pictures: they show what IS, not what we want to see. I've been following this thread for months, and she is scarcely better than she was when you started. Maybe your other mare is chasing her off her half of the bale, maybe there are ulcers, maybe she has cancer, maybe your vet SUCKS...but after two months, there should be marked improvement. 

If this horse shows up at a show, the responsible thing for show managers to do is bar it from performing and call the authorities. Her owner ought to be deeply shamed for even THINKING of showing her in this condition. There is no excuse for this.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I put her in with my mare cause my mare eats very slowly and would let another horse push her off her bucket of grain and eat even though she's the boss mare. She is also more interested in the grass than the hay while Luna would rather eat the hay than the grass. She was taken to the show(AGAINST advisement) but Luna went 3-legged lame when pulled off the trailer(due to an abscess) and didn't show. She since hasn't been messed with with the exception of soaking her foot and giving her feed. I only lunged her for like 5 minutes yesterday to see in what gaits and what direction she was still lame in. then took her back to her pasture and gave her hay while my mare finished her grain before I took her out. Again I've advised the owner to do more with the vet but no such luck. And my vet is highly reccomended and is very good with all my horses. She takes care of most of the Large animals in my area since she is the most local and most respected. When I go down tomorrow I'll take some more pictures of Luna. I'll also take a picture of her feed so you can see what she gets daily. Next week I plan on getting a couple round bales and putting one in her pasture.


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## dkb811 (Oct 15, 2013)

Something just isn't right with this horse. The owner or someone needs to take responsibility and do what's necessary for it. I brought my severely underweight TB mare up to a good weight within 2 months. It was done with quality hay and pasture and just a tiny bit of grain.... that's it. Same thing with an elderly QH gelding. I hope someone steps up to the plate for this nice horse!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I am not suggesting you are feeding her too little (tho hay quality may be off). I think there is something deeply and seriously wrong with this very nice horse's innards. 

Her owner may be ignorant (and not have any money for a proper vetting). It is a lot of money when a horse runs into trouble (as you know I am sure). I just think with all the available feed and her condition only improving by the loss of winter coat but no real gain in weight she has something beyond the local vet going on. 

I rarely suggest a University diagnosis.. but this horse needs that. She needs to be scoped, blood drawn and ultrasound for masses. She needs a work up that a local vet, no matter how good, just cannot do. There are a few clinics that can do quite a lot (Rood n Riddle in KY) but your local vet is not that. 

That is what I think. She just is NOT doing better. 
I am sorry you are stuck in this between an ignorant owner and a horse that clearly has serious need. It is not fair to you and it certainly is not fair to this horse.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Not it is not. Especially for Luna cause she is a super nice horse both on the ground and undersaddle( I have refused to ride her due to her condition but when I did she was phenomenal). I feel helpless even though I'm doing everything in my limited ability to help her. And the closest University to us that will take a horse in is Cornell. I know quite a few people who have taken their horses there for various reasons and gotten good results...I will tell the owner she needs to seriously think about taking her there to get her the best help she can. Especially with winter creeping around the corner I don't know how Luna would handle it.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm a little suspicious of the owner's sudden absence.. how well do you know her?

Agree, her condition is close to the same.

Depending on the amount of grass (and in the first pictures it looks like minimal) that is just not enough hay. She needs good quality hay too.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I've known the owner for several years...and when she does contact me its a small text or FB message saying she can't come for so and so reason. Ignoring what I had sent her.
Grass they have about 5-6 acres of pasture which I currently have split into three different one so that they all have access to grass. And I just pastured off about another half acre of pasture for Luna and my mare to get some extra grass and kept the other two in a separate pasture. The hay is 1st cut timothy/alfalfa mix.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Is this someone who may potentially dump a horse on you?

Area doesn't mean much if there isn't any/is poor quality grass.

Can you get second cut, or nicer first cut?

I know sometimes on pasture they don't care so much about the hay but I would make sure they have enough so that it's available free choice. If that's only a bale over the summer than that's that, but I would expect it to be much more.

I definitely feel there's an underlying issue here.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I don't think she would but I don't know. Yes I can get 2nd cut I have planned on getting some from a commercial farmer. Though he does the 1 ton square bales I dont think I would need to get too many. I think he also does round bales in which case I would get quite a few and put Luna in one of the pastures with one all to herself. Our grass is pretty nice and all the other horses are looking really nice. The area I had just fenced of for Luna and my mare has some really nice grass too with a mix of part of the hayfield in it. And my mare has gained some weight in just the week she's been there. Luna has gained a little and her hips are filling out more to where I cant put my whole hand around her hipbone anymore. Which is a good sign to me but not near enough that I would like to see.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Like I said.. the other horses seem to look good. Even a Thoroughbred with higher energy needs might look on the thin side. That is not Luna. Luna looks just about a 2 on the body score.. 

You are correct about winter. She won't make it without some weight and a stall and a blanket. Cold uses giant amounts of energy and most of that energy needs to come from hay because hay digestion creates heat. 

Cornell is good. I am in upstate NY.. not that far really.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Yeah I'm right on the Pa/NY border so Cornell is not too far from us. I just hope the owner will do right by Luna. She is way too nice of a horse to be like this. I'm almost hoping she does leave her with me so I can either get her the proper vetting she needs myself or find someone else who will.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can you offer to buy Luna? Perhaps cash will do the talking for you...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I could but I don't know if the owner will part with her she tends to be very stingy with things that are "hers"


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Just a thought, but where Elana seems so interested, perhaps tell the owner, that you have a very interested party for the mare, and work out a way of Elana taking her?


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

lol I thought of that too


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I might be able to do that but again even if it hurts Luna I don't think he owner would give her up...but I have updated pictures from today as well as pics of her food though my camera died before I could get pictures of the alfalfa cubes and by the time I changed the batteries she had eaten them all. The commercial farmer told us we could take some of his half ton bales that broke open...but are still good for free too so we took about a 1/4 of a bale today


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Ok first round of pics are going to be of Luna's feed again my batteries died before I got a pic of the alfalfa cubes.
1st: Beet pulp(soaked)








2nd: Grain








3rd: Dumor Senior








4th: Body Builder
















5th: Dumor Weight Booster
















All mixed up before the addition of the alfalfa cubes








She likes eating off the floor


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Okay second round of pics are just of Luna today








































grumpy Luna eating hay that momma brought


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Grr some of the photos didnt show up


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

She actually looks worse that she did. Her pasture is crap.. except in the last photo with the lead rope and I must assume that is not in the pasture.

Lets start with the group photo. In this photo the horse on the left is also thin. You should NOT see ribs. PERIOD. That hay is not very good hay. Is it long stemmed and cut late. I bet it doesn't go 8% protein.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Ok. Moving on the to horse. She actually has deteriorated over time. In this last set of photos this one shows the pasture. That pasture is completely RUN OUT. These horses need HAY and good hay. Not round bales. Good first cutting hay with each horse getting 15 pounds each of first cutting and about 5 pounds of second cutting hay once a day plus grain. If you cannot get second cutting, substitute 4 pounds of alfalfa cubes and more first cutting hay. The hay needs to be tested for protiedn, energy and NDF (Neutral detergent fiber). The higher the NDF the less digestible the hay is.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Now for the horse assessment. This horse has actually lost condition since staying with you. Here are the butt photos. I see NO improvement at all over the months she has been with you. Looking at the pasture and the hay I am re-evaluating and believe there is an over all lack of quality in the feeding program.. both hay and grass.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

And now for the horse side shots. If this posts correctly it will show the horse from the beginning, intermediate to today. In the last photos with the lead rope on the ground the grass is good.. and I expect if THAT were the pasture, this horse would gain rapidly. However, I know in my gut that this part of the grass is not fenced and not pasture.. the real pasture from the photo above is over grazed and where it is not grazed it is weedy and not feed.

This horse has hollows behind her withers, hollows in front of her hip bones, ribs showing, and a neck so thin it barely hides the bones in it and a back bone so prominent that you can actually SEE the sacrum at the point of croup and the dip in front of it. This horse is a condition of less than two and has actually LOST condition over time. Her summer coat has come in. That is the ONLY improvement.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Danicelia, I think it's a little past time for the suggestions to stop and to turn it into a "You will have this horse fully vetted, or off my property." Because she's in your care, its your responsibility for how she looks. 

Unfortunately it's reflecting badly off of you, even if it is a health issue with the horse and not a feed issue. I think you said she's leaving soon anyway? or boards about up? (I'd have to go back and look.) Either buy the mare, have her signed over to you, or if she refuses to have her vetted then tell her to take her mare elsewhere. I hate to say it, but these days it's all about CYA (Covering your butt)


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

My assessment was that the horse was ill. The more I see the more convinced I am that this is a FEED issue. She is a Thoroughbred. High metabolism and large need for GOOD feed.. and these photos tell me a lot. 

It was indicated they have pasture. They have a pasture lot.. but that pasture is all done and over grazed. They need good hay... and that would be first cutting properly cured and cut before June 10 as well as some second cutting. 

The fact is, the horse came to you in poor condition and she is now looking worse. She has lost weight on her top line and she shows more ribs. The fact that the dark quarter horse now is also showing some rib tells me it is a FEEDING issue. Luna still may be sick.. but these photos say a lot. Luna is not being grumpy at the pile of hay.. she looks listless and.. just terrible.


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## dkb811 (Oct 15, 2013)

This has gotten to the point it's just ridiculous. Month after month of excuses, ignorance or just not caring enough to take on the responsibility of the proper care of this horse. All the while this horse is suffering!

How about showing the owner all of these posts? Maybe it will wake her up!
Grumpy???? No, Luna is starving/possible health problems. She has no spirit left in her eyes.

You seem to make excuse after excuse as to why the owner doesn't help Luna. PM me her number.. I'll call her myself!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah as I said before the quality matters more than the amount. She can have infinite pasture of the amount pictured and it won't do anything. It's pretty close to a dry lot. That was one of the first things I noticed looking at pictures on this thread. Then you said you moved her to the new pasture so I thought things had improved.

And yes.. the hay is crap. It's what I call filler hay and would feed to an obese horse for the sake of not starving them. Even my IR horse gets nicer hay then that.

The fact that they are eating it so nicely speaks for itself. You give any of my horses (or sheep) hay like that and they will look at you and walk away.

I thought she was by herself with only one other horse?

I'm afraid I agree with Elana here. She just looks worse and worse, and at this point completely listless. Be careful of animal control being called, though maybe it would be for the best... It would put your other animals on the line though.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I don't get on this forum and wander much past training, health and conformation.. but I did today. The black horse I note above as being thin.. is... thin and Pregnant. (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/collys-breeding-adventures-391554/page12/) 

Not as bad as the Thoroughbred, but she is a Mustang and they tend to have enough draft horse in them to be easier keepers. What they will survive on a Thoroughbred would starve on.. and so she is. 

Here is a photo of the black mare from July 16, 2014 from the other thread. As I noted.. ribs... and on a mare that is pregnant, this is not a good thing. However, it supports the fact that the pasture is run out and the feed quality is poor. These horses need good hay available 24/7.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Elana said:


> I don't get on this forum and wander much past training, health and conformation.. but I did today. The black horse I note above as being thin.. is... thin and Pregnant. (http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/collys-breeding-adventures-391554/page12/)
> 
> Not as bad as the Thoroughbred, but she is a Mustang and they tend to have enough draft horse in them to be easier keepers. What they will survive on a Thoroughbred would starve on.. and so she is.
> 
> Here is a photo of the black mare from July 16, 2014 from the other thread. As I noted.. ribs... and on a mare that is pregnant, this is not a good thing. However, it supports the fact that the pasture is run out and the feed quality is poor. These horses need good hay available 24/7.


If you find that scary, OP had a thread about breeding Luna. 

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/would-good-match-up-**scenario**-433242/


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Rain Shadow said:


> If you find that scary, OP had a thread about breeding Luna.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/would-good-match-up-**scenario**-433242/


As I had stated multiple times throughout that thread it was a scenario. I never planned on breeding Luna and I never would since she is not my horse. I had used many different mares and stallions in that thread but it was all fictional as I wanted to see what people thought when a mare was, hypothetically, paired with a stallion. Again I stated multiple times throughout that thread it was a scenario. And with my mare she had started showing ribs yes so I doubled her grain and now she is looking a little on the fat side which is fine for me... the owner of Luna is picking her up next week so her health is now out of my hands I will continue giving her hay and grain until she leaves. I also plan on moving soon to a beautiful 45 acre farm and since I will then only have two horses(until Colly foals) I expect they will be getting quite hefty on over 20 acres of pasture. Again I wish I could give Luna the care she requires and deserves but the owner has refused to sell her or sign her over and so has said she will be taking her home. I hope for Luna's sake the owner takes better care of her.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Aww just saw the poor baby is just 9. How sad. She should be in her prime.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

While I would be ashamed of the horses condition and not be sharing any more pictures than necessary, I see nothing wrong with a hypothetical not going to be bred but for my knowledge how would these horses pair up thread. The OP posted several horses, all with permission, and several stallions advertised for stud. The horses do not even belong to her to breed.

So again, not something I would of done (at least with photos of this mare in this condition) but the OP stated it was hypothetical and was not breaking any rules, or any morals, by asking breeding questions.

I completely agree that this poor mare needs help. A completely revamped feeding program (for all the animals), special care, vet check up, etc. However, the horse does not belong to the OP.

Yes the black mare is thin. The OP has upped her feed and posted more recent pictures and plans to stay on top of it. So yes, hay quality, etc is an issue, but the horses are being taken care of (at least her own are). (OP I would definitely get better hay asap, for late pregnancy and lactation she will really need it)

I agree there is no excuse for Luna's condition and there are many things that could maybe of been handled better, but I don't think turning the thread into a "bash the OP" type thread is helping any. It's a tricky situation and there are plenty of people who would feel just as stuck as the OP in that situation. Live and learn, at the end of the day Luna does not belong to the OP and if her advice is falling on deaf ears the only other option is to call animal control.

Is the OP doing everything 100% perfectly? No, but she is trying her best and it is not her horse. I hate situations like that


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Maybe I misunderstood, but on the second page of the hypothetical breeding, the OP said that her friend was sending two mares to be covered by a stud. I assumed since Luna was on the thread, also owned by the Op's thread that she was one of the mare's that was being considered for breeding. 

AS for Luna my 35 year old who has no back molars, with a history of ulcers, makes her look fat. That mare is not getting enough calories in her, Ty gets triple what she gets, and he's packing on the pounds at his age. 

If she were my mare she'd be on a lot different diet. I have rehabbed horse's thinner then her and this has been far to long of a time to see this mare, not gaining weight. IMO this is bordering on animal cruelty. Something is not right and I'm disgusted that more isn't being done to help this mare. 

As for the mare not being the OP's. Well my neighbor, who only feeds his 1500lb Percheron/Tb cross one flake a hay a day is in perfect weight, because I stepped in, and paid for the food because my AC would do nothing. I personally paid to make a lean-to for said horse, and I can't believe the OP is sitting there and not doing more. 

I'd have this mare on nice Timothy as much as she can eat. 

5lbs of Alfalfa pellets, 5lbs of Pro-Force Senior which is a complete feed, and give her 10 days. If she's not gaining, then the Senior would be upped, and she'd go on more hay pellets, and some beet pulp. If not change in another 10 days, I'd be hauling this mare to multiple vets, because something is seriously wrong.


EDIT: The OP has her on Dumor Senior. That is crap senior, I have tried it and the picture the OP posted of grain, is not Dumor Senior. One of the horse's at the stable I work for as a groom, feed Dumor Senior and its dark and turns the mashes, a dark almost molasses color. The Grain the OP posted a pic of on page 9 is all oats and corn, which is going to do crap for that mare. The amounts she is giving are quite small.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah she's not not gaining, she's losing..:/

I understand only the bay QH mare on that thread has been bred, and regardless they aren't hers. I doubt they belong to Luna's owner as they both look cared for.. I am assuming there are at least 2 different parties besides the OP "shown" in that thread.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

danicelia24 said:


> The owners board is about to run out but as it is she gets daily:
> - A bale of hay between her and my pregnant mare
> -3 lbs soaked beet pulp
> -1.5 lbs grain
> ...


THIS!!!!!

The OP is not giving her near enough to eat. Hell Jakey, a 5 year old OTTB at my job, eats a ton more then that and he's being given a year off because of joint issues, and he needs every bite to stay at a perfect weight.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

My grandfather owns a dog rescue, and I see this all the **** time. People make up excuse after excuse as to why the animal is thin and I'm so tired of it. Someone needs to step up, either OP or the owner, or else AC needs to be contacted and that mare seized. 

This mare is only getting worse and worse in the OP's care and is going to be dropping dead this winter unless something is done.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Trust me on this. I am only calling out the whole thing because of its cruelty. I am sorry the OP is in the middle and took this mare in "for training." 

That said, a horse in your care needs to be cared for properly. If the owner will not pay then call Animal Control yourself and tell them the situation. Let the mare go to AC and be taken care of properly. You do what you must for the sake of the horse.. and certainly you feed the horse better and be sure she does not LOSE under your care. 

Lovely mare. Really. Or she could be if she was fed enough.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Well I am now seriously ticked off at Luna's owner who is suppose to pick her up tomorrow. But suddenly her parent's just bought her a new car so she and her boyfriend are going on a road trip to a lake. I called the AC from my area and they said they can't do anything cause even though she is in poor condition, I am providing her with food, fresh water, and shelter so there isn't anything they can do. I'm getting the farrier to come out tomorrow and check her feet and do a quick trim on them. Then I'm calling my vet to do a blood work-up on her and see what she suggests I do for Luna and ask whether I should send her to Cornell for a complete health evaluation. I also called Cornell for an estimate but no one answered so I'm waiting to hear back from them. I gave the horses two round bales today so they can eat as much as they like and I have 4 more being delivered tomorrow with more to come. I have also bought 200 square bales of first and second cut hay to start my winter stock. I will get pics of Luna tomorrow cause it has been raining all day today. My husband and I are also looking to purchase a 45 acre farm that we hopefully will be able to get before this winter.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Good for you! What is your long term plan?

As I said before I have a feeling your "friend" may be done with Luna..


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> Good for you! What is your long term plan?
> 
> As I said before I have a feeling your "friend" may be done with Luna..


Unfortunately I think you may be right. And long term plan in regards to the potential house or Luna? If you mean Luna I am going to ask owner to sign her over to me and try to get her as much of the care as she deserves or ask Elana if she would want her since I'm not sure if I am financially able to get her that care (we will see what Cornell says). But if not I plan on getting her at least the blood-work and her feet and what I can get done with my vet and have them bill the owner as is stated in the boarding contract. The road trip was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

Glad you are taking this seriously . Try soaked pellets. My mare is getting fat on a flake of bermuda a day and 4lbs of pellets (cut her down to half a flake and 4lbs of pellets, and half a scoop of safe choice feed safe for IR horses). I know alot of tb owners who give their older tbs soaked pellets because they digest them better and are soft for horses with teeth issues (or in the case of one mare, she is missing ALL the teeth on one side of her mouth). Its worth a shot at least. You might want to do that for your pregnant mare too in winter.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Thanks Kiger! I am actually going to be getting another 40 lb bag of beet pulp and a 25lb bag of alfalfa cubes tomorrow so I will see if I can get some pellets too.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

danicelia24 said:


> Unfortunately I think you may be right. And long term plan in regards to the potential house or Luna? If you mean Luna I am going to ask owner to sign her over to me and try to get her as much of the care as she deserves or ask Elana if she would want her since I'm not sure if I am financially able to get her that care (we will see what Cornell says). But if not I plan on getting her at least the blood-work and her feet and what I can get done with my vet and have them bill the owner as is stated in the boarding contract. The road trip was the straw that broke the camel's back for me.


Honestly, it's a situation I think is for the best. It's more work for you but kudos for rising to the occasion!


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I'll gladly take the extra work since Luna has become part of my little herd and both me, my husband and my husband's horse have grown quite attached to her. Not to mention when I did ( haven't for over a month now) ride her she is awesome under saddle, and she is always the first to come greet you in the pasture and sniff you for treats.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

She does look like a fantastic horse. Hopefully you can figure things out.


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

I am in the same boat as you as trying to pick a horses weight up!

Seriously, if she is done with her..Take legal action! If you can financially support her and care for her, get someone legally involved so she can 
A- Turn the horse over to you
B- Surrender the horse to a Equine rescue center
or C- Find the horse a loving home even if its for free

This is so ridiculous! She is a lovely mare! Up UP UP her feed! LOTS of forage! Beet Pulp, Rice Bran, Vegetable Oil, Weight supplements, vet work! 

If you have to pasture her ALONE! Keep other horses away during feeding time! The reason my gelding dropped was mostly my mare stole his feed! He's picking up SO FAST now that he is separated and gets his nutrients. I added him on beet pulp and vegetable oil! He LOVES it, and his energy levels are sky high!


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

If I could have a horse I would have offered to get this horse a long time back. 

I no longer have a farm.. and have no place to keep a horse properly. Wish I could.. but until I retire (in 5 years) I know my limits. In fact, knowing my limits is why there is no horse here now. 

I am learning to do IPO with German Shepherds right now.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

there's no chance any of my horses are stealing Luna's food as they all get tied when given their grain and dont get untied till everyone is done...which means the faster eaters have to stand tied for 15-20 mins..great way to teach patience  I will be heading over to take care of everybody soon, as I just got back from getting beet pulp and alfalfa cubes(didn't have enough cash or my card for the pellets too) I will take pics of Luna as well.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Pics! And I weighed the amount of beet pulp and alfalfa cubes I give to Luna and she gets 4 lbs soaked beet pulp, 6 lbs soaked alfalfa cubes, 2.5 lbs feed, 2.5 lbs Senior, 8 oz. Body Builder, 4 oz. Weight Booster, and 1/4 cup of Corn Oil 3x a week

Colly my pregnant mare gets the same amount of beet pulp, alfalfa cubes, body builder and corn oil she also gets 2 tbsps of her MareKare supplement and 4 lbs of feed

They also have the two round bales in their field though one is half gone already:shock:. and the other has been picked at though Colly and Luna normally eat at one while the other two munch on the other and wander about the pasture grazing.


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## Aesthetic (Aug 7, 2012)

She's looking better but still a long long way to go!


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I agree but at least she's headed in the right direction  She has an appointment with the farrier tomorrow and the vet is out of town for the rest of the week but she is scheduled to come see her next Wednesday. And still no word back from Cornell so I will be making another call to them in the morning.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I would still feed her more. Not good with weights but that doesn't seem like a lot. She is emaciated. She should be eating FAR more than any of the other horses, including the pregnant mare.

What is "feed" definitely up the senior. What is 3x/week?? How often are you feeding this?


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## Kristyjog (Nov 11, 2013)

Have you tried a good senior feed? This was our guy when we first rescued him. His owner fell on hard times put all his horses out pasture and threw them minimal hay. He was lowest on todem pole super skinny with kick and bite marks all over. We feed him 6 lbs of senior feed a day, 1/2 lb rice bran and free choice high quaility orchard hay. This paint is 23 yrs old. Luna should be gaining better, has she been vetted? He was at a good weight 6 months after worming, teeth and good food. I would say about 2 months in he filled in over his ribs but his top line took a bit longer.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

You are only feeding what you listed 3x a week?


> 4 lbs soaked beet pulp, 6 lbs soaked alfalfa cubes, 2.5 lbs feed, 2.5 lbs Senior, 8 oz. Body Builder, 4 oz. Weight Booster, and 1/4 cup of Corn Oil *3x a week*


. The weights are after those things are soaked? She needs that much in Alfalfa cubes Pre Soak!! _*This needs to be fed every day. *_

BTW Colly still shows ribs and is still too thin. 

How big are the round bales? (5X4? 4X4?) OR how much does a round bale weight?? How many head do you have total? What does the hay test at???


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Yeah I'm hoping that was a typo for 3x/day.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

The only thing that is 3 times a week is the Corn Oil everything else is twice a day. The round bales are 800 lbs a piece. And the alfafa is more because between her and Colly they get 20 lbs of alfafa cubes at one feeding. There are only 4 horses and here is a picture of my husband's mare who gets minimal amounts of feed and a little beet pulp just to keep her busy while everyone else eats.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

this is the senior food she gets
DuMORÂ® Senior Horse 14% Feed, 50 lb. - Tractor Supply Co.
the guarunteed analysis of the feed is 10% crude protein, 4% crude fat, and 10% crude fiber. its is a mix of flaked corn, barley, and oats.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

She had all her shots, Coggins, and her teeth done on July 7th. I am having the vet come out next Wednesday to check her over and draw blood for a full panel.

ETA: the owner of Luna had just messaged me on FB wondering if I could help her find a pregnant donkey thats under $300.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

danicelia24 said:


> ETA: the owner of Luna had just messaged me on FB wondering if I could help her find a pregnant donkey thats under $300.


:shock:


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The palomino in the photo is a bit thin too.. hollows in front of the hips and I can see a faint ribbing. 

800 pounds of hay/4 horses = 200 pounds per horse so that bale, considering waste (there is always waste) will last 7 days (assuming weight is accurate) with full time access and run out pasture.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

And there are two bales in there ATM


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

danicelia24 said:


> this is the senior food she gets
> DuMORÂ® Senior Horse 14% Feed, 50 lb. - Tractor Supply Co.
> the guarunteed analysis of the feed is 10% crude protein, 4% crude fat, and 10% crude fiber. its is a mix of flaked corn, barley, and oats.


I think you're a little off. 14% is 14% not 10%.

From the website.

Crude Protein (min.) 14.00%, Lysine (min.) .53%, Crude Fat (min.) 3.00%, Crude Fiber (max.) 19.00%, Calcium (Ca) (min.) .75%, Calcium (Ca) (max.) 1.25%, Phosphorus (P) (min.) .40%, Salt (NaCl) (min.) .40%, Salt (NaCl) (max.) .90%, Copper (Cu) (min.) 50.00ppm, Selenium (Se) (min.) .30ppm, Zinc (Zn) (min.) 90.00ppm, Vitamin A (min.) 3000IU/lb, Vitamin D3 (min.) 600IU/lb, Vitamin E (min.) 40IU/lb, Ruminant meat and bone meal free.

Not sure why you are feeding an emaciated horse a feed with 3% fat. No wonder it's not doing anything. I would try to find something high in fat..


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Sorry I wasn't being clear the second statement was the "feed" I give them not the senior. The feed has the 10% protein(min) 4% fat(min) and 10% fiber(max). It has barley, oats and flaked corn. I will scan the guaranteed analysis later.

ETA: the weight booster I have her on is at 40% crude fat(min) and the body builder is also at 40% crude fat(min)


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

That is WAY to low of fat. Dumor is crap senior.

You are buying from Tractor Supply then get either Safe Choice Senior or Safe Choice Perform. Far higher in fat. Or if they sell it Sentinel LS 

I have a 35 year old gelding eating 13% fat food, with no teeth, and he's fatter then Luna.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

My new potential house/land
Also Luna seems to be feeling a lot better the horses were running around and Luna joined in racing them around the field and bucking and jumping  I think she feels much better after her food and her pedicure


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

danicelia24 said:


> Sorry I wasn't being clear the second statement was the "feed" I give them not the senior. The feed has the 10% protein(min) 4% fat(min) and 10% fiber(max). It has barley, oats and flaked corn. I will scan the guaranteed analysis later.
> 
> ETA: the weight booster I have her on is at 40% crude fat(min) and the body builder is also at 40% crude fat(min)


Ok thanks for clarifying. However. Your primary feeds are a) 4% and b) 3%. Not really a lot..

ETA if possible feeding 3x/day would be good.

Nice pasture!!


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Unfortunately as it is it's hard to make 2 30 mile trips a day to take care of them


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I have a couple of questions (RE: New Place).

1.) Will you be living there? 

2.) Are those the fences? Barbed wire + Horses = injury

3.) In the first photo I have attached that is grazed down pasture. That pasture will need hay supplemented. 

4.) The other photos show nice grass hay fields, that are not pastured off. In the second photo here it looks like hay to the left and the pasture on the other side of the barbed wire fence. Which side of the fence will the horses be pastured on? FWIW all the hay fields are too long to be pastured. They will be mostly trampled and not eaten. The grass is too long.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Elana said:


> I have a couple of questions (RE: New Place).
> 
> 1.) Will you be living there?
> 
> ...



1.) Yes
2.) They are the current fences I will be redoing it all with the electric poly-wire I use now..
3.) The neighbors cut the hay field and give the owners half of the hay they harvest and they have agreed to do so with the new owners
4.) There are more fields down the hill by the house that have nicer pasture I plan on keeping them in those and fertilizing/seeding the bigger pasture...all in all there is about 15-20 acres of pasture. The rest is mostly hay fields with some hardwoods as well.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

So the vet came out Wednesday and drew blood for a full work-up on Luna. She also looked her over and gave her (other then being underweight) a clean bill of health. She said her heart and lungs sound both great as with her gut sounds, she said she couldn't hear any abnormalities but we have to wait for the blood test to see if everything internally is working. I also asked my grandmother (owner of the land) if I could pasture in the field/yard across the road for Luna and Colly and she said yes so starting tomorrow I will be fencing this in. I let them graze there for about an hour today. I didn't get any good pictures of Luna today so I will post them as soon as I get them but I do have pictures of both Colly and Buttercup (as Elana you said you thought she looked underweight as well) from today.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Imo Buttercup is fine. Awkward angle, esp for weight but she seems lean but fine.

Colly is "ok" but being pregnant she needs to have reserves. If she was not pregnant I would call her "healthy lean" but not want her any thinner. As is she definitely needs to gain.

Well good the vet check went well. Or maybe not good because we don't have a solution yet :/. Good luck! I am interested to see how the blood work comes back.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I definitely want Colly to gain more which is why I'm glad I will be able to move her and Luna across the road to better pasture. Also I love the condition Buttercup is in right now cause if she gains anymore she starts getting really fat really fast. I can't see but can palpate her ribs which is what I want to get both Colly and Luna at. Colly being pregnant a little more than that. I also can't wait to see what the bloodwork says.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

What happened with the owner? Did you buy Luna?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I haven't heard from her in over a week I sent her texts/IM's and tried calling. I know that she has seen them she just is refusing to answer them. She is also behind on board so Luna will be in my care (not that she isn't but I have more say over her with my Right of Lien) until owner pays and/or decides to actually care for her horse. Which I hope she doesn't cause Luna deserves better than her. If I do get Luna I will find someone be it rescue or another owner that will give her the care and help she truly deserves. I would keep her myself but I feel she would do better in someone else's hands.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I've heard of multiple horses seized as payment for back board. Check with a lawyer then send the owner a certified letter saying she has until x day to pay board or the horse belongs to you. I would do that and be done with it. Better than playing games and not knowing for sure. Unfortunately she could pay and get the horse back but I don't think she will.

FWIW obviously in the future but I would try to keep Luna's weight at a little extra. Not fat, I just wouldn't keep her borderline thin due to her history of not being an easy keeper. Too easy to suddenly drop weight. But we will see how things go.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Agree with Yogiwick ont he horse's conditions. 

BTW does Buttercup usually point a front foot like that? Or alternate one and then the other?


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

No she doesn't I just happened to catch her at a moment where she was going to scratch her face and shot her face up to look at me instead.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

So I took Luna and Colly across the road to where their new pasture will be and let them graze for about 2 hours. Both thoroughly enjoyed it. I also got pictures of Luna.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

So Luna is lame AGAIN. She has some swelling around her fetlock and she has something weird going on with her hoof. Note: This is the same leg/hoof she abscessed in. Her sole is actually peeling. I don't know what would cause this to happen overnight. She was fine yesterday and I pick all the horses feet everyday and they were fine yesterday as well. I cold hosed her leg and gave her some Bute. Should I call the vet again? The farrier trimmed her last week and he said her feet are looking better.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

There is a difference between peeling/flaking and sloughing off. Provide a photo. 

I would also suggest a muscle biopsy for EPSM of this horse if she does not gain substantially in the next three weeks (and I would look at doubling her alfalfa pellets). I do think your horses are shy on feed... but this horse has gained NOTHING and is having other issues. It may be the lack of feed (my first thought and what I stick to) or it may be something much more sinister. 

If this horse has EPSM or some other serious malfunction I would cut my losses and put her down.

Oh.. here is some background on EPSM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equine_polysaccharide_storage_myopathy


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

I feel so sorry for this mare. When we got our OTTB, the BO was amazed at how much food it took to keep his weight up. INSANE amounts of food went down that gelding's throat. Comparing what you feet to Luna with what you feed to your other pregnant mare is useless. Bringing thoroughbreds back from starvation requires amounts of quality feed that boggles the mind. The only vet that was really a help to us was a vet who formerly worked at the track. He made us realize that it didn't matter what we thought a normal horse needed....what mattered was results.


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## auberz12 (Jul 29, 2014)

Have you tried feeding Tribute? I have heard nothing but good things about it. A friend of mine was able to bring their senior horse back after the harsh winter. They thought they were going to lose him until they switched feeds.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

My fiance's gelding eats 8 lbs of soaked pellets and 3 flakes of Bermuda. and he is just sitting. If Rocket, at 28 and bat teeth can gain with that amount of food she should have gained SOMETHING by now. Vet like yesterday! and try dubbling her feed over the coarse of two weeks. if she STILL dose not put on weight i would be saverly worried.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

What bothers me about this horse is that she is structurally so darn good. IF this horse does NOT have an internal illness, this is a horse that could excel at eventing or like discipline (if she has the mind in addition to the weight gain needed). 

The black mare is a grade horse with some draft horse in her. She should gain on not a lot of feed (even pregnant). 

A Thoroughbred is a whole 'nother story. When you feed a good Thoroughbred right and get her up to weight.. and then add training.. top of the line farrier care.. you will get a horse under you that won't quit; a horse with so much heart and drive that you can feel like you are, indeed, riding Pegasus. 

I see that in this horse.. but it cannot come out past the ribs and the protruding hips and back bone.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

*DB at almost 23*

Here is DB at almost 23. He's 16+hh and on pasture 24/7. He's fed twice a day with 1.5 flakes of hay, a huge scoop of Nutrena Senior, a half scoop of Nutrena 12%, and SmartPak supplements for flexibility in older horses and anhydrosis as well as Biotin+ for his hooves. He gets his teeth floated every 6 months (he's got a wonky mouth) and he's trail ridden regularly by my 6'4" husband. Thoroughbreds CAN look good (at least I hope he does...LOL) you just have to feed them! He's always had sunken areas behind his shoulders. This plus a knifelike withers, makes saddle fitting an adventure.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

What's going on with Luna? I'm sorry to have hijacked the thread. I only wanted to show that if an older horse like DB can look good with decent food, then a young one can certainly do it too if she's fed right and doesn't have some underlying issue. TBs just take a lot of food. There aren't too many easy keepers in the breed. (at least as far as I know.)


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Hi sorry I haven't updated in awhile! And it's alright HagonNag I know how good horses can look even when VERY old! Unfortunately I won't be able to give any more updates on Luna unless the owner tells me. As I was getting to leave the barn after feeding Luna's owner pulled in handed me a check with her past due amount and said that she had someone coming to pick her up in a half an hour. I feel bad for Luna and I just hope she will be able to make it through the winter. So Luna is gone but the owner said that she would like to bring her back next spring she just wants her closer to home during the winter. The owner is also buying a winter blanket from me for Luna. My husband's mare Buttercup was very upset that her friend was leaving her and ran the fence line for about an hour after she left. All I hope is that the owner gives her the care she truly deserves. If not I worry for Luna.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Oh.... 

Can you call animal control on her?

Thank you for all you were able to do.


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## livelovelaughride (Sep 13, 2011)

Hmmm. Why couldn't you bill the owner for all the extra time and care and attention this horse needed? Make it on the high side. Possibly the owner is too cheap to pay the bill and then you'd have Luna to continue to care for.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

I did and the owner still paid it. And Yogiwick thank you though I wish I could've done more and AC won't do anything unless there is no food and no water and from what the owner tells me she has about a 1 1/2 acre pasture to herself with tons of grass.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The end of that saga. Poor horse. 

Good luck with Colly and Buttercup.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

The only thing I can think of is proving that the horse has not gained any weight between a and b (pictures). But part of the reason for the blanket may be to hide her from you :/


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

I'm sad for Luna but she's not your horse. :-( If she makes it through the winter and comes back in the Spring, maybe you can try again. :-(


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