# Curly Conformation



## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

Heya fine folks on the forum,

I suck at conformation, I’m trying to learn but it’s slow. I am looking for a second horse to purchase and have a few I’m looking at (I can only own curlies because of severe allergies so my search is very time consuming and limited). Was wondering if I could get opinions on potential prospects as they come up.

My stats are:
5.7ish
180 pounds
Beginner 

My end goal is primarily pleasure riding, trails far and wide. So nothing too extreme but I want to make sure it’s a well put together animal that can support me and not be overloaded! Here’s the first mare I’ve gotta pics from the owner (most are not local):

Mare
18 years old
14.2hh
Well trained


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

I didn't expect a curly to be so.. smooth looking. Also it's been a while since I did conformation, so take this with a grain of salt.

I think she's pretty cute. It seems her front legs are set a little far under her, and her shoulder is a little straight. Her hip and hind legs are the same, but I don't know what's common for the breed, or how that affects movement. The bottom bone in her hind legs is also a bit long looking, that might worry me. Her head is nice, and I personally like a bit thicker neck like she has, unless that's a sign of metabolic issues (I'm not sure how to tell, is she heavy like I think she is, or right for her breed?)

ETA: She's got a short, level, sturdy looking back I think, which is a good thing.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Thats a cute horse! She looks sturdy. I agree that her shoulder angle is steep and her front legs are a bit more 'under' here. I would guess that her trot may well be a bit hard/jolting. But, that could be totally wrong. 



I like her look, and for trails and such, I bet she'll be perfect! And, you weight is really not a concern for almost any horse. I guess if you were considering a real pony, you might be a bit heavy. But, 180 is no big deal for any typical horse. 



I think this mare is going to be a great partner!


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

She looks like she'd be just fine for what you're looking for. Her shoulder is a bit steep, but so is her hip, so she's balanced. Her back is strong but not so short she won't fit a saddle (some curlies have this issue). I'd like to see more bone on her, but you aren't overly heavy so it's not a huge concern. If she is as kind as she looks, you may have found a winner


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Curlies in general tend to have mediocre conformation due to how the breed is developed (not a real breed in a sense). However, any horse without major flaws would do just fine for you. Since your allergies are so bad I would suggest just working with the horse first to determine if they're even a candidate and while it's great to keep conformation in mind that's probably pretty far down your list. You need a horse that you don't react to as well as a horse you would actually like to purchase.

The mare pictured is ok, don't love her, but she doesn't have any glaring flaws and appears sweet and calm. Pretty is what it is, but she's pretty too lol! If the important one and two boxes are checked I would definitely consider her an option.

Do get a PPE done and I would also ask the vet about any preventative care that would be recommended especially at her age. (For example I would put this horse on a joint supplement).


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> I didn't expect a curly to be so.. smooth looking. Also it's been a while since I did conformation, so take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> I think she's pretty cute. It seems her front legs are set a little far under her, and her shoulder is a little straight. Her hip and hind legs are the same, but I don't know what's common for the breed, or how that affects movement. The bottom bone in her hind legs is also a bit long looking, that might worry me. Her head is nice, and I personally like a bit thicker neck like she has, unless that's a sign of metabolic issues (I'm not sure how to tell, is she heavy like I think she is, or right for her breed?)
> 
> ETA: She's got a short, level, sturdy looking back I think, which is a good thing.


Yep ^_^ in the summer they tend to look more or less like a normal horse, minus that they usually shed mane and tail with their winter coat. 

They also tend to be VERY easy keepers. 

I already have a curly gelding (and have for four years) and he look VERY similar to her (though his back is very short). Hes 21 this year 

Here’s pictures of him for fun, both a confo shot and pictures showing the difference in his coat that different times of year (no idea why the last one is loading upside down)


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> Since your allergies are so bad I would suggest just working with the horse first to determine if they're even a candidate and while it's great to keep conformation in mind that's probably pretty far down your list. You need a horse that you don't react to as well as a horse you would actually like to purchase.


For sure  I’ve tested on several curlies. “Straight coat” curlies are a gamble, so I have to test each other specifically. Here’s me with my face buried thanks to my boy being my literal unicorn (my allergies have gotten better since having him, before I couldn’t even get out at a barn where regular horses were, now I can touch them a bit, but not groom or handle tack).


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Cute!! They would make a lovely pair.

Interesting I wonder if it's a type of immunotherapy. Your curly has minimal allergens but just enough to expose you without actually triggering anything, so your body is building up some immune response. Very cool!

He looks so sweet!


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

MouseZ said:


> Yep ^_^ in the summer they tend to look more or less like a normal horse, minus that they usually shed mane and tail with their winter coat.
> 
> They also tend to be VERY easy keepers.
> 
> ...


Oh neat! The more you know  I've never met or even seen one in person, winter or summer.

Yeah, I see he's an easy keeper, the "pregnant gelding" in that first picture says it all lol He's very handsome, what's his name?


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Allergies are so interesting....I was severely allergic to horses....didn’t stop me, lol! I took a lot of Benadryl. Then, I would build up an immunity to the horse that I was in contact with daily, but of a new or different horse was introduced, I had a reaction. Now, I have no reaction to any of them.

I like the mare. She is the nicest curly I have ever seen!!


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> Cute!! They would make a lovely pair.
> 
> Interesting I wonder if it's a type of immunotherapy. Your curly has minimal allergens but just enough to expose you without actually triggering anything, so your body is building up some immune response. Very cool!
> 
> He looks so sweet!


He is very sweet, just sore in the hind end (massage therapy thinks it’s due to thick gelding scarring) which makes him very clumsy, and he’s lazy and doesn’t like to be ridden.


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> Oh neat! The more you know  I've never met or even seen one in person, winter or summer.
> 
> Yeah, I see he's an easy keeper, the "pregnant gelding" in that first picture says it all lol He's very handsome, what's his name?


BNC Andee, he was a stallion until 10, then gelded. I bought him at 16 

They really are the most wonderful breed. Very gentle and smart.


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

greentree said:


> I like the mare. She is the nicest curly I have ever seen!!


Not to insult the mare at all... but there are some beautiful Curlies here in Canada! The black horses are curly stallions in Ontario, the bay is a mare for sale that I’m waiting on better pictures for


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Those are lovely!! I have only ever seen two IRL both driving horses, and then the ones that get posted on this forum!


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

Saw another genetic Curly today, she’s straight coat so I have to test on her for a bit to see if I’m allergic or not. I don’t think she’ll be a fit because of the amount of training she’d need. Thoughts on her confo? Her legs looked REALLY short to me in person but she had good movement.

Mare
5 year old
~14.3hh
Halter broke
Totally green


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

This is what my friend's curly Fox Trotter looks like during shedding season. :smile:

He doesn't loose his mane and tail, as a matter of fact he has a very full mane and tail. I don't know if they are a separate mutation from the other curlies or what. He is also built like a gaited horse (which he is) and not quite the same conformation type as the other curlies shown. 

Just thought I would show off another curly. In the winter time there is no doubt he is a curly! Summertime he would pass for a regular horse, maybe just a few ringlets in his ears and at his fetlocks. :Angel:


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> This is what my friend's curly Fox Trotter looks like during shedding season. :smile:
> 
> He doesn't loose his mane and tail, as a matter of fact he has a very full mane and tail. I don't know if they are a separate mutation from the other curlies or what. He is also built like a gaited horse (which he is) and not quite the same conformation type as the other curlies shown.
> 
> Just thought I would show off another curly. In the winter time there is no doubt he is a curly! Summertime he would pass for a regular horse, maybe just a few ringlets in his ears and at his fetlocks. :Angel:


Cute! Oh yeah, Andee easily sheds an entire extra horse worth of hair come spring! The birds love it haha

It’s not a different mutation, just presents in different animals, differently. No different than how some horses have thick manes and some have thin  but typically, the more “severe” the curl type, the more they shed out their mane and tail. Andee has a son that complete sheds out his tail (literally no hair on it) and mane - except a teeny Afro in between his ears, and he was only a half curly! haha

The first Curly I tested on was named Goliate, a palomino and he was like a “princess pony” with his luxuriously long ringlet mane. Really a stunner!


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> Her head is nice, and I personally like a bit thicker neck like she has, unless that's a sign of metabolic issues





tinyliny said:


> I like her look, and for trails and such, I bet she'll be perfect!





SilverMaple said:


> If she is as kind as she looks, you may have found a winner





Yogiwick said:


> The mare pictured is ok, don't love her, but she doesn't have any glaring flaws and appears sweet and calm.


Sorry for the multi-quote, I didn’t know how else to tag people on the forum *blush* 

Do any of you lovelies have a critique on the second mare I posted? I’d be super interested to know what you think (even though my untrained eye wasn’t sold on her and I don’t think personality wise she’s a match). 

Thank you!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I think she falls into the same boat as the first, nothing special but no major problems. However, if you're already apprehensive....

The bay mare above looks promising, of course a horrible picture, but she looks pretty decent and obviously has some training. Have you checked out the first mare in person?


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> I think she falls into the same boat as the first, nothing special but no major problems. However, if you're already apprehensive....
> 
> The bay mare above looks promising, of course a horrible picture, but she looks pretty decent and obviously has some training. Have you checked out the first mare in person?


Sadly the first mare and the bay (as with most curlies) are not within driving distance of me. So I wouldn’t be checking them out unless it got to the serious side of purchase on one of them.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I like the bay mare the best out of the three and the last mare the least (I don't like her legs). The first mare looks pretty balanced but her shoulder is so upright, she looks like she would have a teeth shattering trot.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

You can @username to tag people  

On the bay, her hip seems really narrow as compared to the rest of her, specifically her shoulder. I'm not sure the technical terminology, if there even is any, but something about that really bothers me to look at, and I'd worry if it'd cause soundness issues with her already being downhill. Her legs, shoulder, neck, and head all look decent enough though, except how she seems to stand under herself in the front looks a little off to me, and I think she's a little camped out in the back.

I'm on the opposite from the others in liking the Grulla. She's got short legs, yes, but I think if she slimmed down and muscled up they wouldn't look so stumpy, and I don't see any glaring actual faults in them. But of course if training is an issue, that's a no go, no matter if she's cute or not.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

The shoulder assembly, with the front pasterns, is what makes the difference between a jolting mincing tiring trot and a smooth cushioned effortless one. It's the shock-absorber, as well as part of what makes extended front movement possible. Despite how awful a really straight-shouldered horse may feel (and that grulla has about as straight a shoulder as I've ever seen), it is not actually an unsoundness. Lots of feral horses and ponies have very straight shoulders. 

The grulla has bad feet and legs (crooked, not enough bone, small feet) as well as a bad shoulder, she is no horse you want. The first mare also has a steep shoulder but not near as bad. She has a thick short neck, but how much of that is just being overweight is hard to say. 

Compare the shoulder of that first mare to that of the standing shot of the Ontario stallion. See how different they are? You want a shoulder like that stallion's, if you can find it. Pastern angle should match that of the shoulder.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

@Avna I'm really not seeing what you're seeing on the grulla :shrug: Could you be more specific on what's wrong with her legs? To me they look fine, not perfect, but not awful. And her feet to me aren't that small.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> @Avna I'm really not seeing what you're seeing on the grulla :shrug: Could you be more specific on what's wrong with her legs? To me they look fine, not perfect, but not awful. And her feet to me aren't that small.


Viewed from the front, the grulla is splay-footed and a bit knock-kneed. Front on, the knees, fetlocks, and hoofs all should line up like well-set fence posts. For her weight, her feet are small, and she does not carry the bone in her knees and cannons I would want to see in a stocky-built horse like her. 

Viewed from the side, her angles are all way too straight. Compare to the horse skeleton pic I've attached with correct conformation. It may not seem like a lot of deviation but actually it is. She is also standing very close behind although that may be how she is posed.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

With conformation, there are things that can be "just okay" or you wish they were a tad different but can live with them. Like a rather coarse head, or a back that's a bit downhill, or a neck that is a bit upside down. Legs are not one of them. You want the very best legs and feet your budget will afford. 

Having an eye for a horse is a learned skill -- it's not an innate talent. I began as a child reading every single thing I could find about horses and trying to absorb it all. Then I joined 4-H and my horse leader raised AQHA colts for the racing market, and lived next door. Since 4-H has a big emphasis on judging, there were many opportunities. Us horse-crazy kids would hang at the rail of a horse show with my horse leader and she would grill us about what we were looking at. She made sure we didn't mistake a glossy coat and a beautiful turn out for a well-put-together horse. Our own horses were often lined up as in a halter class and she would have us talk about what we saw as the good and bad points of each horse. Those lessons have stuck with me. 

On the internet it's easy to find conformation judging "quizzes". Sometimes I disagree with the judges' placements -- different people put more weight on different qualities and faults -- but I always learn something.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Avna said:


> The shoulder assembly, with the front pasterns, is what makes the difference between a jolting mincing tiring trot and a smooth cushioned effortless one. It's the shock-absorber, as well as part of what makes extended front movement possible. Despite how awful a really straight-shouldered horse may feel (and that grulla has about as straight a shoulder as I've ever seen),* it is not actually an unsoundness*. Lots of feral horses and ponies have very straight shoulders.


Just wanted to respond specifically to this. Less shock absorption = more wear and tear = more lameness. So I agree it's definitely not an unsoundness directly or as huge of an issue as a crooked limb or bad back or severely bent knees (etc etc) but I don't think it's accurate to say it's not actually an unsoundness because a horse lacking shock absorption will effect the horse long term (and the rider short term). However, I don't think it will create any major problem for the OP..just wanted to be technical 

Also, reading the recent responses not only is the pic of the bay mare horrible but it's not a conformation pic and is also taken at a bad angle (why her hip looks so awkward, she is NOT parallel to the camera even though she looks it at first glance). I still think she's likely the best built of the 3 but more pics needed. The grullo mare doesn't have great legs but I don't think they're that bad and agree she is top heavy which makes them look worse. Again, look closely at the pictures, while they ARE taken as conformation pictures they are not taken at quite the right angles, close enough you don't notice right away but off enough to skew her legs. Is she ideal? No, but no reason she won't hold up for low key riding. Though on a side note part of these trained horses is they have been "proven sound" in a sense too. This mare is young and I'm sure she's fine, but there are young pasture sound horses that do not hold up when saddle broke. The first mare I know is older and I'm sure she has some mild issues related to that, but that is normal, and she has proven herself as not having any major issues physically OR training wise.


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## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Not a fan of the grulla. Bay mare is worth seeing better photos of.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

greentree said:


> Allergies are so interesting....I was severely allergic to horses....didn’t stop me, lol! I took a lot of Benadryl. Then, I would build up an immunity to the horse that I was in contact with daily, but of a new or different horse was introduced, I had a reaction. Now, I have no reaction to any of them.


So I let my husband off the hook too easy?? He did try to humour me & learn to get into horses & ride when we first met, but he is allergic, so that was a fair enough 'out'... or so I thought. 

Mind you, these days, it is nice to have different hobbies... My MIL used to say 'Ill take the kids so you can have the weekend together. What will you do?' I'd say well I'll go horseriding & hubby will likely go fishing'(I like eating fish but can't think of anything more boring than his favourite hobby...).


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

loosie said:


> So I let my husband off the hook too easy?? He did try to humour me & learn to get into horses & ride when we first met, but he is allergic, so that was a fair enough 'out'... or so I thought.
> 
> Mind you, these days, it is nice to have different hobbies... My MIL used to say 'Ill take the kids so you can have the weekend together. What will you do?' I'd say well I'll go horseriding & hubby will likely go fishing'(I like eating fish but can't think of anything more boring than his favourite hobby...).


Haha yeah I think he did get off easy  my horse allergies are SEVERE. Zero reaction to curlies.


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

Sorry about the wait! 

Finally got another picture of a 5-6 year old curly mare. Hope it’ll work for confo, I’ll try to ask for more:


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

@Avna @SilverMaple @loosie @Yogiwick @BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

I’m also interested in this mare, she might be a good fit in most ways, but I’m worried about conformation on her. 

The rocky terrain she’s in makes her look sore or stiff when she walks and I can’t tell if it’s structural or external factors (like the terrain she’s walking on in the video, a bad farrier or need of a trim, lack of confidence because of lack of use etc). I have video of her too if anyone wants to see it to aide because of poor picture quality.

She’s close enough (~8 hours) that I could drive out over a weekend to meet her and get better pictures myself if necessary. I already warned the owner I’d probably require more and better pictures of her, but any preliminary insights help too to see if the trip would be worth it.


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## Filou (Jan 16, 2014)

There's curly mustangs that pop up now and then. Might be another angle to look into. Mine's only got the curly mane and tail though, not body hair.


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## Sanzia (Mar 19, 2019)

I'm not great with conformation but I think the bay mare looks the best. I hope you find one that works for you!


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

Filou said:


> There's curly mustangs that pop up now and then. Might be another angle to look into. Mine's only got the curly mane and tail though, not body hair.


Sadly I’m a beginner and I’m looking for “broke to ride” type animals. I don’t think a mustang would work. Plus I’m in Canada. Dunno about shipping them cross border.


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

I don't see anything that screams "Stay away!" conformation wise, but the way she stands has me wondering if there's something going on in her hind end. The video would help.


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> I don't see anything that screams "Stay away!" conformation wise, but the way she stands has me wondering if there's something going on in her hind end. The video would help.


Here’s more pictures to start, then I’ll try to figure out including video.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

You have to wonder if she's got pain going on somewhere because in most of the pictures she does not look happy.


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

JCnGrace said:


> You have to wonder if she's got pain going on somewhere because in most of the pictures she does not look happy.


Agreed, she looks uncomfortable. 

But again, I don’t know if that’s something fixable or not. And I don’t know how to tell the owner (who genuinely seems to love them and care) that her 12 year old horse may have issues and she’s possibly in pain (the videos seem to make that even more obvious) and to look into it for the mare’s sake.


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## rambo99 (Nov 29, 2016)

Her hindquarters are really odd. She's standing with hind legs out behind her. Looks like they are angled like that due to conformation. Very oddly put together hindquarters. Not sure you could fix her, maybe make her more comfortable? not sure on that either.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

MouseZ said:


> Agreed, she looks uncomfortable.
> 
> But again, I don’t know if that’s something fixable or not. And I don’t know how to tell the owner (who genuinely seems to love them and care) that her 12 year old horse may have issues and she’s possibly in pain (the videos seem to make that even more obvious) and to look into it for the mare’s sake.


If you are seriously interested in buying her then a PPE with x-rays from a good equine vet would be a must. Depending on those results I might go an extra step and have a good farrier give me their opinion of her feet. Mainly because from what you describe I think she might have some laminitis or founder going on. You can then share your findings with the owner.

If you have decided to pass, this would be my choice, then be honest with the owner and tell her why. Since she wants to sell the horse maybe that would motivate her to look into what is causing the mare to be so tender footed and uncomfortable looking.


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## MouseZ (Aug 16, 2011)

JCnGrace said:


> If you are seriously interested in buying her then a PPE with x-rays from a good equine vet would be a must. Depending on those results I might go an extra step and have a good farrier give me their opinion of her feet. Mainly because from what you describe I think she might have some laminitis or founder going on. You can then share your findings with the owner.
> 
> If you have decided to pass, this would be my choice, then be honest with the owner and tell her why. Since she wants to sell the horse maybe that would motivate her to look into what is causing the mare to be so tender footed and uncomfortable looking.


The mare is in another province so I can’t hands on be there. I shared my concerns and what everyone has stated with the owner already. She’s already agreed to have a vet come in and assess the mare for me


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