# Mare in heat question



## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

I'm not sure what to tell you about the belly sensitivity issue, so others will have to answer that part.

As far as the kicking thing goes, I've found a swat on the butt or shoulder works quite well. Those are areas where they have a lot of muscle, so it really gets there attention without hurting them. I don't see much wrong with the crop, but I've always used my hand or the flat part of their hoof pick (if I'm picking their feet). I've found a good flat palmed pop on the shoulder or side of their neck gets their attention. It may sound a little harsh, but I've found that to me the most effective rebuke for kicking. I've never hit their leg, but it might work for her.

The "Ah-ah" method works pretty well if you do it loudly. If you're doing it to warn them not to do something, it's fine on it's own. If you're using it to rebuke them for something they ALREADY did, then I combine that with the physical reminder. They hate the sound and doing it that way also helps teach them associate that sound with the fact that they're doing something wrong; and "punishment" if they don't listen.

I definitely agree with the respect thing. Even if something is bothering them, a horse should NEVER threaten you directly by kicking or biting. It's okay for them to express their discomfort, but the basic ground rules should still apply IMO.

Good luck with this.


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## 3rdTimestheCharm (Jan 18, 2015)

Has she been check for ulcers? They cause sensitivity in that area, and a cause horse to be cinchy/girthy.

I would definitely ask the vet what they think before continuing any method to correct the behavior she's been displaying because it sounds there's a good chance she has ulcers.

Sorry I can't offer any advice on the Mare Magic because I've always owned geldings and been around mares that don't behave much differently when they're in heat.

Good luck with your girl! =)


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

^^^ Yeah, didn't think about that. My only thing @3rdTimestheCharm would be that if she had ulcers, wouldn't she display the behavior no matter if she was in heat or not?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I don't care if she's in heat or if she has ulcers, kicking is not acceptable ever. I also use "Ah AH!" firmly and loudly and if they persist then I escalate with a crop, lunge whip or carrot stick, whatever I have close by. So, first time, "Ah AH!" and I would swat her belly with my hand, HARD and LOUD. Go back to grooming, if she does it again then, "Ah AH!" accompanied by a hard swat with crop or whatever. I prefer to get after them hard once or twice and convince them I mean business, than to pick, pick, pick and be completely ineffective. 

Let me make it clear, I don't mean don't treat any issues, whether it's ulcers or pms or tenderness from being in heat, by all means fix it. Just don't allow the bad behavior while you investigate and fix whatever the issue is (if there is an issue). 

I had a mare at the vet yesterday and she offered to bite and strike the vet. That is just not allowed, period. I waded into that horse and she did not offer to repeat that behavior again. The vet thanked me for handling my horse.


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## 3rdTimestheCharm (Jan 18, 2015)

I just read the original post again, and that's a good point, @BlindHorseEnthusiast4582. I misread that post the first time, but I think you're correct.


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

I was concerned with ulcers- but it is not all the time with her belly sensitivity. I'll admit I have more experience with geldings than mares. 

So, I been noticing sometimes she is sensitive on her belly, and sometimes not. Being new around mares-I just picked up that it's during her time of the month ( I marked it on the calendar so once she goes through some, I can get a pattern for her) and the belly sensitive issue is just during her time. Being a bit under the weather, I didn't even bother to saddle her up last night to see if she still was girthy.

Could it still be ulcers even if its just during her heat?

That was why I was reading up on mare magic. If she is uncomfortable - still not ok for her to kick- but i read that could help with her being uncomfortable during her heat.


Thanks for the sugestions for correcting her. I'll do a mix of both when she acts up.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Mare Magic won't hurt and might help, I'd certainly give that or some raspberry leaves a try. Some mares are DQs when they are in heat and others you'd never know unless you were teasing. I expect all my mares to act the same, heat or no heat. If she persists with the belly thing after you do the MM for a couple of months, then I"d check for ulcers, but I kind of think once you stop letting her be such a DQ when she's in heat, the issues will go away.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Most mares spend 5 days in, and 18 days out......welcome to mare world!!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Mare Magic won't hurt and might help, I'd certainly give that or some raspberry leaves a try. Some mares are DQs when they are in heat and others you'd never know unless you were teasing. I expect all my mares to act the same, heat or no heat. If she persists with the belly thing after you do the MM for a couple of months, then I"d check for ulcers, but I kind of think once you stop letting her be such a DQ when she's in heat, the issues will go away.


Agree with above

Mare Magic is basically red raspberry leaves, so cheaper to just buy them in bulk at the health food store. The leaves in turn, are high in Magnesium, so don't know if any additional ingredients in Mare Magic might go beyond just agood magnesium supplement



This is all I could find:

Mare Magic™ herbal calmers for heat cycles can be fed to mares and geldings to keep them on task and naturally regulate temperament. Will not test. Active ingredient is raspberry leaf. 8 oz flakes (60-day supply).


Thus, amny people also feed mare magic to geldings, as it has nothing to do with regulating any heat cycles per say, but is rather a source of Magnesium, and you get to pay for that label!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Dealing with mares is really very simple.Realize you are dealing with ahorse that has a reproductive drive, at times, thus can't be expected to act like a gelding, all the time , automatically, BUT you can, and must train them so that they do, when handled or ridden, same as a stallion, that has hormonal drives all the time
If you think there is a genuine pain issue, like cystic ovaries,then have that eliminated, otherwise, mares are not in any pain when in heat, but they are often physically frustrated, wanting to be bred, thus some will brush up against anything, ect


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 (Apr 11, 2016)

edf said:


> I was concerned with ulcers- but it is not all the time with her belly sensitivity. I'll admit I have more experience with geldings than mares.
> So, I been noticing sometimes she is sensitive on her belly, and sometimes not. Being new around mares-I just picked up that it's during her time of the month ( I marked it on the calendar so once she goes through some, I can get a pattern for her) and the belly sensitive issue is just during her time. Being a bit under the weather, I didn't even bother to saddle her up last night to see if she still was girthy.
> 
> That was why I was reading up on mare magic. If she is uncomfortable - still not ok for her to kick- but i read that could help with her being uncomfortable during her heat.
> ...


I'm not certain, but I would definitely think she could just be uncomfortable during that time, just as humans can be. Like you said, the kicking is never acceptable, but I appreciate owners that are concerned for their horse's comfort.

Good luck and thanks for listening to her (discomfort, not kicking).


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## jimmyp (Sep 5, 2013)

At my place when one horse kicks another there is one of two responses, the receiving horse realizes it has bit off more than it wants and it walks away, or the receiving horse responds with a returned kick and typically speaking the issue is resolved. 

I have a paso mare who had managed to convince 3 previous owners that she was the boss, as soon as you put a foot in the stirrup she would kick. i would kick her back. you would walk into her stall and she would charge and or kick. i would either kick or use what was in my hand, before she had an opportunity to think much about winning. It is rare that a horse gives a verbal que that is not directly coupled with or followed by a physical retort. "Ah Ah" might work for kids or docile horses, but I'll be danged if a horse is going to kick out at me for ANY reason.

Jim


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Kicking isn't allowed and the mare has to learn to control her reactions even if she is in pain - horses with poor self control are a real nightmare to treat when they've got injuries so that is something that you need to address
The irritability seen in some mares when in heat is not pain related but mood related and magnesium (the key 'ingredient' in Raspberry leaves and Mare Magic which is just raspberry leaves) is proven to promote calmness in horses but to get the most benefit from magnesium its better to buy an actual supplement with a guaranteed analysis per daily dose which you won't get from the 'natural' product which varies a lot depending on when and where harvested
The actual pain part is also something you need to address though - as already said - mares don't typically have pain when in heat unless they're ovulating large follicles when they do get uncomfortable and can appear to have colic symptoms - in which case a mild pain killer will help
Ovarian Tumors in mares tend to result in more constant behavioural problems or pain issues not just when in heat but a mare that does get irritable when in heat would possibly be even worse when she also has tumors - same goes for ulcers, their tolerance levels are not so good so they'll react a lot more strongly than when not in heat


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

Thanks for all the input.

I really think its most likely a mixture of both- her being bossy and possibly not comfortable during her heat. While she may not be in pain during her heat, if I can relate it anyway to how I feel, I may not feel actual pain, but I am uncomfortable, and I am more prone to kicking ( ok- I don't really kick, but there are times I want to lol)

My goal with mare magic or any additive ( but I think i'd like to try a more herbal remedy first) would be to help her feel more comfortable AS I work with her to prove I am boss all the time. don't get me wrong, she listens, she has good things going for her- she moves out of my space, if I yell when she does her impatient front foot dance thingy, she stops, doesn't spook into me... it's just she seems to get the one up on me when she is in heat. 

So, in the end I understand why she acts that way, just got to stay firm but fair with what I will and will not allow from her.

What my plan is- i'll see if th emare magic helps. I may wait a cycle to two to see if just being more firm with reprimanding makes any changes. If it does, then no need for the mare magic. If not or minimally, then see if mare magic works. Either way, I have to step up my game when she is kicky.

She's lucky I love her...LOL. And so far we aren't pmsing on the same day


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

"horses with poor self control are a real nightmare to treat when they've got injuries......."

That is the gospel.....mare, gelding or stallion.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

OP - Mares don't get the sort of pains that women get, they're not 'designed' the same way that we are so don't make that comparison, the only one you can make is that they are subject to the same mood swings and hormonal drive as all females.
If the Mare Magic doesn't work don't give up on the magnesium effect - try a magnesium supplement with a higher concentration instead as there's no way of knowing exactly what level you're giving per daily dose with the Mare Magic or Raspberry leaves and you might not be using enough to make a difference


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

> OP - Mares don't get the sort of pains that women get, they're not 'designed' the same way that we are so don't make that comparison, the only one you can make is that they are subject to the same mood swings and hormonal drive as all females.



good to know. I didn't mean to anthromorphize the mare- it's just, well...I just assumed... lol. Well, at least she's lucky that she don't get the cramps along with the mood swings, right?

So, it may just her being moody during her time of the month that she is just more prone to kicking? I mean, there may be other signs that aren't as drastic when she isn't in heat, but maybe because she is more moody she acts upon it more. Its the wonderful world of learning this horse, and my first mare to boot.

To me, it made sense that if she was feeling discomfort in the form of pain that would equal her kicking. But could just be moody.

I am still going to read up on ulcers as just in case.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You should certainly consider ulcers, if your mare gets stressed when she's in heat that might be enough to cause them - maybe put her on something like U-Gard which is an antacid combined with natural ingredients that create a buffer between the acid the stomach wall
I've got one mare that gets very stressed about where her 'love interest' (another mare) is when she's in heat and she'll pace up and down the field or round and round the stable when she can't see her - the rest of the time she couldn't care less where that mare is


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## edf (Dec 20, 2013)

Well, here is the deal with me and reading up on something that could be wrong with an animal: I swear I could see signs of whatever it is that is that I am questioning the animal has... I just get paranoid.

I thought I saw signs that she was biting her sides the other day... but also bare in mind, there were flies out. It was just that one day that I saw this. She is pooping fine, looks normal. I am not seeing her bite her sides at all when I am there. I check her feed bucket, she eats all her food. I am not seeing her lay down excessively when I am there. She moves around, is active.

As far as performace, I cannot really judge that since I am just starting to ride her outside of lessons on my own. I am a fan of slow and steady wins the race. So, she had time off from being ridden, but I did ride her sat on my own ( yay!) She was calm, actually on the slow side, but also, bare in mind, I am rode her not in heat vrs last time she was in heat. She just seemed much more relaxed.

One thing, since it has rained up here, and the BO is on vacation, her and her buddy mare have been kept in a smaller paddock that is dirt. The mares can go out in the main field, we just have to rotate horses around and since the BO isn't there, she doesn't want to cause more work. I understand this. But as I was reading up on the cause of ulcers, maybe this could be a concern. I know they get thrown hay in the morning when they are put out. They usually eat around 3-4 pm. When I went there around noon, there is still a little hay left if the horses picked the left overs up. But I usually don't see them eating that stuff. My question is how long are they going with out being able to munch on something...maybe thi scan set up a situation for her to get ulcers...

I hand grazed her this weekend, but its not like she was in a field.

On a side note, when girthing up last Sat when I rode her- the only thing I got from her was she did attempt to bite- I don't think she was really going for me, more of a show that she was going to bit. I slapped her in the nose and she knocked it off. When I was getting to hole 3 in the cinch ( I do 1 at a time on each side, and I even took breaks between tightening it to adjust stirrups and ect,) she lifted the back foot slightly- just barely off the ground, and naturally I am in the middle of tightening, but I yell and she put it back down. It was just that one time and that is it. No kicks

She showed no signs of discomfort with the saddle on or anything.

I will talk much more about ulcers with my BO as well as read up more on them. Sometimes I wish the horse could talk to just tell me... but then again, having talking horses could be a night mare...LOL


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