# Bull castration question



## LadyDreamer

I know there are some cattle folks on here. My mom watches the Dr. Pol vet show and whenever he castrates a bull, it looks like it is just cut him open and cut them off. Bull is usually struggling and kicking in the chute. People who have cattle, is this how it's done everywhere? No sedation or even local anesthetic? I know the bulls will be fine and castration is necessary, but I feel so bad for them. 

Just curious and figured I would ask those who would know!
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## Roman

When we castrate our bulls or "clamp" as we call it, we just run the cows into the lot and separate them. Run all the calves through the shoot and see what gender the cow is. If it's a heifer we let her go, if a bull we put it's head in a head gate, then somebody holds the tail up and another person comes in behind, finds his things and then uses the clamps to get them so I think they fall off later on. Usually the bulls stay calm during the process, maybe a few bumps here and there but they don't really freakout once it gets started. No sedation at all.

Sometimes we might have to run a steer back through just to check. A fall calf from last year, we've had to run through several times. Most of those times we have to clamp again! Don't know what his problem is.


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## LadyDreamer

Maybe he listens to too much AC/DC. 

That's what I thought happened too. It seems so odd that he would just remove them right then and there. I don't watch the show all the time but the last two episodes had young bulls on one and older ones on the other, and it was the same. I am surprised out of all the creatures we have owned, we haven't had a cow, so I have ZERO experience.
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## Roman

I've never heard of the show. Probably wouldn't watch it, we're not like big cattle people xD. We usually wait until Spring to clamp them. Then they're older and probably won't be so much stressful on them.


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## boots

We castrate at branding and brand in the late spring.

Yes we merely cut a small slit in the scrotum, pull the testicles down, strip the cord (running squeezed fingers up and down to stop blood flow), and cut. Then we spray or dust with a topical antibiotic and let them up. 

The whole process takes only seconds. 

Some who haven't been castrated bellow as do some who have, though far from all.

We do not clamp.


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## COWCHICK77

Depends on the age of the bull/calf as to the best way to castrate.

We castrate our bull calves at about 60 days when we brand, ear mark and vaccinate.
The bull calf is stretched out on the ground, we rope all of our calves, I cut the bottom third of the sack off ( I use a very sharp pocket knife). Push up to pop the testicles out of the sack, stick my fingers between them, run my fingers up the cords to pull back the fat. I take my thumbnail and scrape the cords until I feel a 'pop'. Then I take my knife and scrape back and forth on the cords to cut them off. You do NOT just lop them off or you will have a problem with bleeding. On the fatty steers I trim the fat around the open of the sack so it will close and heal nicely. Spray with blue spray to keep the flies off.

ETA, boots and I posted at the same time


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## DraftyAiresMum

Roman said:


> I've never heard of the show. Probably wouldn't watch it, we're not like big cattle people xD.


The show isn't just about cattle doctoring. He works on all kinds of animals and it follows him day-to-day on calls. It's actually a pretty good show. Dr Pol is hilarious.
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## Roman

DraftyAiresMum said:


> The show isn't just about cattle doctoring. He works on all kinds of animals and it follows him day-to-day on calls. It's actually a pretty good show. Dr Pol is hilarious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll have to see if I can find it.


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## smrobs

We do ours the exact same way as Chick and Boots. Rope them, stretch them out, cut the sack (we generally cut the bottom off the sack like Chick instead of just doing a slit, they seem to drain better that way) and yadda yadda yadda LOL.

Because of the amount that needs to be done in a short time, there isn't time or money for anesthetic for them and while I'm sure it hurts, I seriously doubt it hurts as much as the branding part :wink::razz:. I've had more calves bellow when they are branded than I ever have had when they were cut.


Since we were often working with only 1 or 2 people, we would often cheat and use a "Nordfork" (the red thing on the calf's head) to hold them down while the person on the ground did cutting, shots, notching, and branding.



















We were all holding this one down because it was the first that my niece roped and she roped it afoot so we just drug it out and did it all by hand instead of involving a horse LOL.


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## JCnGrace

Roman said:


> I'll have to see if I can find it.


 
Saturday nights on Nat Geo Wild.


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## LadyDreamer

How interesting! Thanks! Being the prancy pookie pony softie, it just seems so....mean! Lol. I even hate gelding colts because I hate seeing them feel bad. I also love gelding colts for the obvious reasons. I'm not one of those "they should all be 'natural' and 'free'" people. Lol. Nope, roll them down the hallway and be done with it. Some take it so hard though and I just feel bad for them. Thank goodness they don't take long to heal. 

I figured with many of them being used for food, it might limit what medications or anesthetics could be used(another world I know nothing about) and time is also a factor, I'm sure. Can't knock out a whole herd one by one and go at them like you do a colt.
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## JCnGrace

When my brother-in-law still had a herd of cattle he banded the calves shortly after birth. No muss, no fuss, the scrotum just eventually dried up and fell off.


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## smrobs

I know a lot of people do it, but I've never really liked the banding thing. I don't know if it's just the types of bands that people use or what, but I've seen more infections because of broken bands than I ever did from manual castration. It never fails, the steers that we get in every summer, there is going to be at least 2-3 that we have to rope, physically cut, and doctor because the band broke before the balls fell off and they turned septic.


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## DraftyAiresMum

Roman said:


> I'll have to see if I can find it.


It's on NatGeo.
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## Saddlebag

The bellowing is more about being confined than what is getting done. If you hold the paws of a dog that likes to jump on you, and not release it's front paws, it will start yelping, not out of pain, but that it's being held against it's will.


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## boots

It's a momentary discomfort. Steers have a calmer, easier life than bulls.


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## beau159

smrobs said:


> I know a lot of people do it, but I've never really liked the banding thing. I don't know if it's just the types of bands that people use or what, but I've seen more infections because of broken bands than I ever did from manual castration. It never fails, the steers that we get in every summer, there is going to be at least 2-3 that we have to rope, physically cut, and doctor because the band broke before the balls fell off and they turned septic.


I really can't say that I ever remember having any problems banding the bulls. My family has been doing it that way for years and years. Granted I'm not as involved as I once was, but we've never had to cut one after the fact due to a "faulty" band. 

My parents run about 180 cows. Every Memorial Day weekend, we gather all the calves up and run them through our "set up" in the barn. Heifers just get their shots, but the bulls get tipped in the chute and leave the barn as steers. :wink:

When I was little, my dad just used to band the bulls right away once they were born, but now we do it this way since they need their shots anyway.


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## Fort fireman

boots said:


> It's a momentary discomfort. Steers have a calmer, easier life than bulls.


Right up until butchering time. :lol:


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## boots

Fort fireman said:


> Right up until butchering time. :lol:


Fair enough. 

But would you rather potentially be steak? Or just a big bunch of burger?


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## boots

beau159 said:


> I really can't say that I ever remember having any problems banding the bulls. My family has been doing it that way for years and years. Granted I'm not as involved as I once was, but we've never had to cut one after the fact due to a "faulty" band.
> 
> My parents run about 180 cows. Every Memorial Day weekend, we gather all the calves up and run them through our "set up" in the barn. Heifers just get their shots, but the bulls get tipped in the chute and leave the barn as steers. :wink:
> 
> When I was little, my dad just used to band the bulls right away once they were born, but now we do it this way since they need their shots anyway.


I've known some really good outfits that band. 

I've seen bands break, though, and a couple infections. I've seen a couple infections on calves castrated with a knife, too. Also, it takes longer to do a perfect job on each with banding than it does for me to castrate. 

Horse people aren't the only ones who use different methods to achieve the same goal. :wink:


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## Dehda01

Dr. Pol had a few lawsuits popping up from his animal association based on animal handling and treatment.
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## VickiRose

Here we use elastrators, AKA bands. We calve from February through to June, pick a nice winter day in June or July and get the cows and calves I. The yards (we only have 80 breeders) Cows get backlined for lice and worms then let out. Calve we save tile last, run them up the race about ten at a time and hubby gets in behind them and works his way though. Band is done first, then ear markers (cut a designated mark out of the top and bottom of the ear, bit like a brand) then they get a NLIS tag in the other ear (Australian govt regulation, it's a scannable tag, stands for national livestock identification system) The they get backlined as well and let back to Mum. I've never seen an infection or broken band. We have occasionally had to use emasculators on very large calves, usually if they were born first and we've had a run of bad weather and have been unable to get them done. Lots of people here do it the same, some catch the calves as day olds and do it then, but probably 99% would use bands.


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## gunslinger

Ohhhhhuuuuccccchhhh......dang that hurts me just thinking about it....:-(


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## RegalCharm

mountain oysters, yummmmmy.:lol:


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## Yogiwick

Probably depends on the age too.

I have minimal experience with cattle. My sheep I band. Only a few and it's just my mother and me.

I had a really bad experience with "surgury" my mother brought two goat kids to the barn she worked at for the manager to do. Idk what he did but it was surgical and they were SCREAMING and SCREAMING. I'm not talking about a quick one two like the experienced ranchers here are. Idk if he just didn't work fast or did something wrong but they were SCREAMING. It was pretty awful.

I will stick to banding my 5 wethers a year . Never any problems with it when done properly.

Age matters too in that an intact adult, moreso a breeding adult will be much harder and more intensive.


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## COWCHICK77

When I worked for a purebred/registered outfit the bull calves that were not selected for bull prospects were banded. What I have noticed is that you can't just turn them out and expect them to come back in as steers. You have to ride through them and make sure the bands didn't break, slip or cause problems.
One year we used the Callicrate bander but it still has it's issues, you have to know how much tension to put on the tube or you run into the same issues as the elastrator bands.

Even on the big calves that may have been missed in the spring if you cut them right they don't bleed much or at all. Very rarely have I used emasculators.


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## Fort fireman

boots said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> But would you rather potentially be steak? Or just a big bunch of burger?


Personally, if I were a bull,I'd rather be left alone, thrown in a pasture with a bunch of heifers and left to do my business. :lol:


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## Cielo Notturno

I don't know anything about cattle, can someone please explain how the clamps and emasculator work?

I think I got the band thing (the band blocks circulation and the part eventually falls off of its own?) and there's nothing unclear about the cut, but I still can't figure how the other 2 work.

Thanks


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## boots

Cielo Notturno said:


> I don't know anything about cattle, can someone please explain how the clamps and emasculator work?
> 
> I think I got the band thing (the band blocks circulation and the part eventually falls off of its own?) and there's nothing unclear about the cut, but I still can't figure how the other 2 work.
> 
> Thanks


Very good question.

Below is a link to a great article from Ontario, Canada's Ministry of Agriculture describing the processes, benefits and precautions of the three most common methods of castration for bulls.

Castration of Calves


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## AnrewPL

Its been a few years since I have done it but I recal if you get the bull calves in too early they can be hard to castrate, their equipment hasn't "dropped" yet. Most places I worked on did them pretty young, when they are calves, one big place I worked on though did them as wieners, so a fair bit bigger. 

But everywhere I worked did them the same. Slice with a sharp pocket knife through the scrotum, cutting the testicle itself, then lift it out of the scrotum, then cut the little tendon bit (don't know what its really called) then the tube (cant remember what its called either), then repeat for the other one, so two slices through the scrotum. 

I have done full grown bulls a few times, they get done in the crush. gotta be careful though, I did one once and he got a leg out and kicked me right in the back of the calf, knocked me clean off my feet and near broke my leg, felt like it anyway, cant say I really blame him. I heard that cutting them when they are full grown can knock them around a bit, but it didn't seem to bother any of the full grown ones I did, or saw others do.

From what I have seen cattle are a hell of a lot tougher than horses and I doubt it hurts them as much as it might appear. Given how much they can knock each other around I doubt getting cut is much worse.


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## Roman

Cielo Notturno said:


> I don't know anything about cattle, can someone please explain how the clamps and emasculator work?
> 
> I think I got the band thing (the band blocks circulation and the part eventually falls off of its own?) and there's nothing unclear about the cut, but I still can't figure how the other 2 work.
> 
> Thanks


Found this. The first method talks about clamping.

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/an_sci/extension/animal/news/janfeb96/jf963art.html
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## laurapratt01

We have dairy cattle so we castrate only the few that we keep to raise for beef. I use an elastrater, which just slips a small rubber band over the base of the testicles. In a couple of older calves I've cut them. I always use a xylazine (sedative)/lidocaine (numbing agent) mix injected into the chord before I make the incision but I don't have hundreds of bulls to castrate every year like some of you so the cost is very little.


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## Cielo Notturno

Thanks boots and Roman :-D

May I ask one more question? I thought that castrated males were called oxen. Than, in a book (British Eng.) the author called them bullocks. Now I read steers. I admit being a bit confused. When do you use steer and when ox? I'm supposing that bullock is more of a British term.


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## RegalCharm

Bizarre Foods in chile Castration Time


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## boots

Cielo Notturno said:


> Thanks boots and Roman :-D
> 
> May I ask one more question? I thought that castrated males were called oxen. Than, in a book (British Eng.) the author called them bullocks. Now I read steers. I admit being a bit confused. When do you use steer and when ox? I'm supposing that bullock is more of a British term.


An ox, or oxen, is a mature (adult) steer that is used for draft work like pulling wagons, etc. I've heard three year olds and up, once trained, referred to as oxen.

If it is just an adult steer that does not work, it is still referred to as a steer.

I think bullock is an Australian term, too, so having British origins would make sense to me. At least it has been Aussies that come to Wyoming that I have heard use that word.


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## Roman

I think oxen is an older term but I suppose it's still used today. 

A steer is a castrated male. Bull is uncastrated.
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## LadyDreamer

I have another few cow questions!!! 

What is the cow worth in the end? We sell an entire rack of various jerkies at my work for $6-10 for a few ounces. 

I'm always curious as to what the end worth of one cow is. 

When a cow is processed, how much is used for what? Is the cow just portioned out "this will be sold as meat for the market, this will be sold for jerky, these parts will be dog food, the skin will be sent here, the bones here..." 

Tracking Steve the Steer from birth to the time every bit of him has been consumed, from paying the farmer to the butcher to the processer to the packager to the distributer to the retailer or restaurant, how much money was spent to buy Steve? Every time I buy jerky at work, I wonder this. 

Lol, these nights when I can't sleep.
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## boots

At least 99% of a cows/steer/bull is used.

Link to a simple, but in no way complete graphic:

Products Made from Cattle (Image)

And a good article:

The Many Uses of a Cow - Beef By-Products | Cattle Empire

In the second, it talks about how there are 1.25 million diabetics in the U.S. And, it takes the pancreases of 26 cattle to produce enough insulin to treat each person with diabetes for one year. I didn't know that.


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## Foxhunter

In the UK it is compulsory that all calves are ear tagged within a couple of days after birth. As they need catching up for this, not always easy when they are on the hills! 
The art is waiting until mama cow puts the calf down and wanders off for water, sneak in tag and band! Then run like heck because if the calf bellows she comes running! 

I have never heard of infections or the band breaking, perhaps because they are done so early?


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## Roman

^ We did that last year and maybe before then too but not every year. Some of our cows we trust enough to mess with the calf when they're nearby. 

We have this one cow that is so overprotective. If her calf takes off running with the other calves to play she's hot on his heels. Last year we had to wait until we saw she was far from her calf, sneaked down there (crouching), and tagged. Crazy mama.
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## boots

Roman said:


> ^ We did that last year and maybe before then too but not every year. Some of our cows we trust enough to mess with the calf when they're nearby.
> 
> We have this one cow that is so overprotective. If her calf takes off running with the other calves to play she's hot on his heels. Last year we had to wait until we saw she was far from her calf, sneaked down there (crouching), and tagged. Crazy mama.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


One of my daughters started using a calf cage that attached to a 4 wheeler. She drives up behind the calf and can drop the gate. Then she hops over the top. She started using it when her rope horse died and her youngest needed to go with her when she tagged.


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## Foxhunter

The Downland where I walk the dogs every day is a big hilly area. This May they turned out abot thirty beef cows with calves, most only a couple of weeks old. Boy oh boy were those cows protective! 
There are a lot ofeople who walk their dogs along the top and most did not have a clue that these cows would chase any dog or person that got to close to the calves. 

One day I returned from a walk and several calves were milling around my car. The cows were close by eating. I went wide around the calves and rove them back towards the cows. I opened the back door to get the dogs in and when one calf was coming towards me I waved my arm and stepped towards it. Next thing the ancient old Pointer I had inherited went after them barking. The calves scuttled back to their mothers and the stupid old dog thought he was being so clever and continued to chase. Next thing a cow sent him flying, he was winded and lay where he landed and she went to follow through, pushed him further with her head and then was going to kneel on him. 
I couldn't do much as the cows were between me and him but my GSD was out the car, circled around the cows and took the enraged mama cow by the nose and hung on. It gave me a chance to grab the old dog and get him to safety.
It was my fault entirely as he went after the calves. Surprisingly he was a bit stiff but otherwise no harm done. 

Then an Aberdeen Angus bull was turned out with them and people moaned! He was fine, compared to the cows! 

As the young grew and the cows got use to the various dogs things settled down and each ignored the others.
Further on, still on the Downs, they have now turned out a large herd of Highland cows and calves. These are not use to dogs and can be very defensive. 

I do not have my dogs on leashes and they run hunting rabbits. The cattle watch them but really don't take much notice of them whereas someone who put his dogs in leashes tried walking through the spread out herd, one of his dogs barked and snapped at a calk and he was chased, luckily he managed to get over a fence.


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## AnrewPL

Foxhunter said:


> The Downland where I walk the dogs every day is a big hilly area. This May they turned out abot thirty beef cows with calves, most only a couple of weeks old. Boy oh boy were those cows protective!
> There are a lot ofeople who walk their dogs along the top and most did not have a clue that these cows would chase any dog or person that got to close to the calves.
> 
> One day I returned from a walk and several calves were milling around my car. The cows were close by eating. I went wide around the calves and rove them back towards the cows. I opened the back door to get the dogs in and when one calf was coming towards me I waved my arm and stepped towards it. Next thing the ancient old Pointer I had inherited went after them barking. The calves scuttled back to their mothers and the stupid old dog thought he was being so clever and continued to chase. Next thing a cow sent him flying, he was winded and lay where he landed and she went to follow through, pushed him further with her head and then was going to kneel on him.
> I couldn't do much as the cows were between me and him but my GSD was out the car, circled around the cows and took the enraged mama cow by the nose and hung on. It gave me a chance to grab the old dog and get him to safety.
> It was my fault entirely as he went after the calves. Surprisingly he was a bit stiff but otherwise no harm done.
> 
> Then an Aberdeen Angus bull was turned out with them and people moaned! He was fine, compared to the cows!
> 
> As the young grew and the cows got use to the various dogs things settled down and each ignored the others.
> Further on, still on the Downs, they have now turned out a large herd of Highland cows and calves. These are not use to dogs and can be very defensive.
> 
> I do not have my dogs on leashes and they run hunting rabbits. The cattle watch them but really don't take much notice of them whereas someone who put his dogs in leashes tried walking through the spread out herd, one of his dogs barked and snapped at a calk and he was chased, luckily he managed to get over a fence.


that reminds me of a dog my uncle had. He was pretty ancient and used to like to come out with me when I'd take the young horses for a ride. I rode off on this young gelding I just got started, taking him out to just walk around some cattle and start getting used to them and this old dog was trotting along with us when we saw a doe kangaroo and her joey. this old dog thought it would be fun to chase them and went taring off after them. They went around behind a thick bunch of bushes and the dog was right behind them and all vanished into this thick scrub. Till about 4 seconds later the dog came racing back round from behind the bushes with a great big buck kangaroo just about stomping on him with every stride. The old dog was trying to go so fast to get away that it almost looked like his back and was overtaking his front end.


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## Cordillera Cowboy

In keeping with the protective cow direction: At a big stable I worked at years ago, we often had unwanted dogs dropped off. One liked to chase livestock. It killed a couple of horses by running them into obstacles. At one point, armed riders were sent out after it, but to no avail. 

Then one day we saw it in the cow pasture which was occupied by a herd of Brahma cows and their new calves. We stable hands got excited and wanted to go after it, but the owner told us to just relax and watch. The herd bunched up with the calves more or less on the inside. The dog continued to press them and all the cows turned to face it. Being presented with the front end of a prey animal instead of the hind end was apparently a new experience for the dog. It hesitated. The herd moved as a unit toward the dog, first at a walk, then a trot, then a lumbering run. The dog took off for the next county, and was never seen again. 

In the Eastern US, most cattle farmers run the herd through an alleyway that narrows down to one cow width and ends in a squeeze chute. All the tagging, banding and whatever else is done in safety there. Of course the herds are much smaller than out West.


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## Foxhunter

I bet there are many ranchers/ farmers that would love to have this mule!


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## boots

Foxhunter said:


> I bet there are many ranchers/ farmers that would love to have this mule!
> 
> MULA TRABALHANDO...7 - YouTube


Absolutely!

Love that video. We send it to each other if we hear one got chased.


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