# Horse won't stop during lunging



## Charmander17 (Dec 17, 2014)

So I've recently started working with a few new horses, and one is Harley she's a Quarter horse/Tennessee walker (weirdest combination and oddly shaped) and she's 10. She had a foal last year and it's now 1, and when they're apart she kicks up a fit for awhile. 
Anyway to problem I'm having at hand, she has poor ground manners but we've improved greatly, she now stop when I'm leading which was a big problem. I have to jog and run her a bit till she is calm enough to focus on anything, and she won't stop! Getting her to go at any speed and to slow down is easy but she definitely doesn't want to stop. She isn't the first horse I've lunged in fact every other horse I've worked with on this ranch has no problem stopping. I've tried blocking her drive line, and she may or may not stop. I've made her yield her hind and that gets her to stop after she almost runs into me, again. Which I then make her back up quite a bit.
Keep in mind when lunging she is awesome, no tension and she stays out of my bubble.

I haven't ridden her but the owner tells me in the saddle she is a completely different horse with good manners, I'm not even attemptin to ride her until I think her ground manners are at least well.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

If she doesn't want to stop, then MAKE HER MOVE until she wants to stop...then make her keep going for a little while longer. She'll soon figure out that doing what you're asking is much easier than doing what she wants.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You say she stops when you're leading her but does she stop because you've stopped or does she stop when you use the verbal cue 'whoa'?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

okay, confused! She is great lunging, yet does not stop???
I take it, since you are not riding her, the stop ,problem is in hand, whether leading or lunging.
First place to start, is really wean her from that yearling, which should have been done at weaning time. 
I always separated my mares and their foals , 'cold turkey'. Those weanling spent the winter with their peers, and by the time they got re -introduced into the herd, their dams 
acted towards them like they would towards any other new herd member.
Far as stopping, teach complete respect of the word 'whoa', and use it for only one thing, not moving feet, until asked to do so, versus to slow down ect.
You can start that with leading. I use a stud shank, run under the chin. Stop walking, say 'whoa', and if the horse continues to try and move, give a re -enforcement with that stud shank while repeating whoa.
The total grasp, of how important that automatic ingrained response to whoa is, gets missed by many people. Horses are creatures of habit, and I have ridden horses, where that ingrained response to 'whoa' saved my bacon.
I'm not going to go into all the details, but I had a horse accidentally get into a ground hornets, and that 'whoa' allowed me enough time to get off. Also had a coyote leap out from under a hay tarp, had a car passing my horse and it backfired, had a horse run back into an arena,,during a clinic, breaking free from the trailer owner tied it to, stirrups flapping, and in each case, that conditioned response to 'whoa', had my horse come back to me, giving me enough time to combine body control, to get through that incident, versus bolting etc.
Once you have that obedience to whoa, and combine it with body language, or use a stud shank or rope halter, the horse will respond.
Just hoping to tire a horse out, by jogging, loping, whatever, just gets them more fit, and really does not get a stop on that horse, where you have it, no matter what else is going on
'


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

It's pretty simple. First, she should walk, stop, back up in hand. Be at her shoulder, walk, halt (ideally imho with a (chain) shank over the nose). Be able to turn, face her, and back her up.

When lungeing, start with a handler (on the outside). Walk when the lunge whip is raised, lower it to stop. Then the same thing in trot. Then remove the handler. But the other way to stop the horse is to move off of the circle you have been on (hopefully you marking time in one spot) and walk directly toward the wall. The horse is forced to stop. Stand, reward, back up slightly, and have the horse move on. Easy peasy.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Charmander17 said:


> So I've recently started working with a few new horses, and one is Harley she's a Quarter horse/Tennessee walker (weirdest combination and oddly shaped) and she's 10.


Maybe slightly off-topic, but I would love to see what she looks like if you have a picture. 

I have a QH/Fox Trotter cross and he is built very handsome. But I agree, both are a weird cross. My first thought when I found out my mare was pregnant (from the former owner's stallion) was WHY did they not breed her to another gaited horse instead of a QH? But actually, he turned into a really good looking horse if I do say so myself. And he does gait, but prefers to trot. :shrug:

Anyway, mine looks like a Quarter Horse with a prettier head and not-quite-as-muscular hindquarters.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Easy enough to get her to stop. Run her into the fence, or reel her in.

As far as training agree that "whoa means whoa." Making her move is a decent concept but wouldn't be my preference for that situation. If she's being unsafe then do what you need to. If she's not listening do what you need to. Then reinforce the whoa from a less exciting moment.

My project mare was a MESS on the line. She has come along very quickly and I am proud of her. She had a lot of poor training. One thing she would do would be to randomly bolt and zoom around. Now I CAN stop her by reeling her in, or make her move etc, BUT I have determined that she bolts purely due to anticipation (her canter is unbalanced and she rushes and leans and gets more unbalanced then scrambles around like a barrel horse going 100mph lol). Reeling her in and putting her on a tighter circle WILL stop her (well, when I reach her head, she's nimble!) BUT is it really helping the whole fear of being unbalanced and rushing, I'm making the problem worse! The few times I have given her a bigger circle she has brought herself back to a controlled gait, then will respond nicely when I ask her to change gaits (trot to walk to whoa at this point lol). She hasn't done it in awhile but now that I know WHY she does it I can set her up to not do it and handle it more suitably when she does.

Slightly different from your mare from the sounds of it, but just trying to show how the why is sometimes important.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm confused, too. you say she is good on the lunge line, but the title says she wont' stop on the lunge. would you like to clarify, and think of explaining it to someone who is not there and does not know the back story.

I disagree with making her move more if she is running off. maybe running her into a fence, yes, but making her run more . . . h m m m. . . may just set up her expectation that if she starts running, she'll get run even more and she'll go for it. she is running out of anxiety from seperation from teh foal. so, doing something that makes her more anxious is not what I would do.

however, I'd do something to intereupt her thought, that has left her thinking brain and gone into auto pilot. I might give the lungeline a severe shake, so that she stops, and probably throws up her head and backs away. THEN, I'd offer the the chance to stand still and just look at me and get her mind on me. when it seemed that she was looking at me well, I'd ask her to step off at a walk. if she leaves me mentally and starts to charge around, I'd repeat the above, EVERY time she tries to take over. when she finally walked nicely on the lungleine, I'd quit for the day. 

do this until you are successful at each gait, NOT cantering her until she can do it without taking over. if she just needs to run , then put her in the round pen and run her for a bit, but when the line goes on, you do not allow her to run on and on without your permission.


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## Charmander17 (Dec 17, 2014)

trailhorserider said:


> Charmander17 said:
> 
> 
> > So I've recently started working with a few new horses, and one is Harley she's a Quarter horse/Tennessee walker (weirdest combination and oddly shaped) and she's 10.
> ...


I won't see her for a few days but I'll definitely get pics, because when I saw her she looked like she was malnourished as a foal or started in the saddle to early. Her hoofs are huge compared to her body. 
Your boy is gorgeous! Nothing like her, her personality makes up for looks though. Just some bad training we got to get through.

---
I think she has a concept of 'whoa', she did well at a walk but that was with me stopping. I think it's a respect issue, from what I've seen for the few hours I've worked with her she isn't necessarily rude just doesn't seem like she was taught that humans on the ground matter. I know she got a click sound down, I made the mistake of clucking and she just darted.... not exactly the best response but she hasn't been worked in over a year, and I get the feeling she wants to work.

Also, I agree with the weaning, I've been hounding the owner to do it, and they're finally going to do it or so I was told. Because Harley gets distracted a lot when her filly is in the background whining, which was great to work her through a distraction and focus on me but the screaming in my ear left me a little deaf xD


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## Charmander17 (Dec 17, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> I'm confused, too. you say she is good on the lunge line, but the title says she wont' stop on the lunge. would you like to clarify, and think of explaining it to someone who is not there and does not know the back story.
> 
> I disagree with making her move more if she is running off. maybe running her into a fence, yes, but making her run more . . . h m m m. . . may just set up her expectation that if she starts running, she'll get run even more and she'll go for it. she is running out of anxiety from seperation from teh foal. so, doing something that makes her more anxious is not what I would do.
> 
> ...


When I say good at lunging I mean, she maintains space but doesn't try to run off, she keeps her attention on me and she switches sides with no hesitation. She changes paces, without being asked twice even slowing down to a fast walk. 
For a horse that hasn't been worked in a year she just acted better than any horse I've dealt with at that ranch, very perky. The only thing is stopping her, I don't know if maybe she was taught differently or just doesn't want too. The other thing she wanted to do was mow me over when leading, but that was corrected easily and at the end of our session she didn't attempt to shove by me until we came to her stall. I think she just has a very push forward attitude, is there a better way to communicate with this type of personality?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its back to that old and very misunderstood word 'dominance' 
In every relationship, even close friends, there is always a dominant one. 
You need to let the horse know that's you in this horse/human relationship but in such a way that you don't turn her from being a rather bossy horse into a defensive one or a fearful begrudging one. 
Be firm, be consistent, be very clear - you cannot punish a horse for making mistakes when no one has laid out the rules or instructions clearly enough for them to understand


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## Exotic (Dec 29, 2014)

Do you think you could try ground driving for awhile? Some horses that have so much energy can be hard. Sounds like you're doing a good job though. Maybe with consistency she will learn. Or when she does stop what about giving her a treat. One show barn I worked for I would let the horses run around free first in the arena and do whatever they wanted before I worked them, they never got to go outside. So this gave them a chance to just be a horse and get horsey time without being 'bossed' around by me. After a bit I would get them and then it was work time, no ifs, ands, or buts. They actually did pretty well with it. I always really tried to be suuupppeeerrr calm, slow, and quiet. Like trying to give no energy to them. They had enough of their own! lol!


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## Charmander17 (Dec 17, 2014)

trailhorserider said:


> Charmander17 said:
> 
> 
> > So I've recently started working with a few new horses, and one is Harley she's a Quarter horse/Tennessee walker (weirdest combination and oddly shaped) and she's 10.
> ...


 Here's a few pics, the owner swears it's her breed that looks that way. I've not experiences a horse like this before, so I have no idea.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

that horse's back and withers tell a story.

see the odd bump at the Sacro-illac area:










could be a sign of being quite out of alignement. it just does not look right

and, see how the neck dips down in front of thw withers?
that often happens when a horse is 'pulled back' into its' shoulder. the neck is scrunched back, so the horse drops the lower part of the neck down and compresses the upper neck back against the shoulder.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

There's something seriously wrong with her hind end. I'd be calling around to try and find a vet to do x-rays, stat, and I wouldn't even be THINKING about riding or working her hard. That's not normal.


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## equitate (Dec 14, 2012)

The horse is underweight (hunters bump/dipped neck) and lacking proper muscling from correct work. 

As far as stopping, its not a respect issue, it is simply lack of methodical training and useful half halts (virbrations) on the lunge (caveson). Working with a handler can help with halt, as can a visual barrier (ie the fence). But letting them run and pulling them is simply dangerous. Lunging in something less than a caveson is not as calculateable. Start in walk.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Disagree she is underweight. Those are specific issues and if you look at the rest of her she looks fine weight wise. I've never understood feeding a horse until it's completely round, they are supposed to have SOME angulation and this mare is simply accented due to so far unaddressed issues NOT lack of weight. I agree she needs a chiro and then possibly a vet as well. I would not be working her until checked out. Some of it is probably conformation from the strange cross (like look at the placement of her tail head) other looks to be more than just funky natural conformation. Breeding alone is not a reason for her conformation, even a strange cross can have good conformation just (usually) mismatched. She's definitely a horse that will benefit from work to create proper muscling, but that should happen AFTER being examined and having those issues resolved. She looks to have a bit of a roach back too. Would like a whole body shot, poor girl, looks uncomfortable!


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## Charmander17 (Dec 17, 2014)

She isn't my horse. So I can't make any actual decisions, I've been pushing the owner very hard to get a vet though, and she says she has. I'm trying her to get my vet who I've already talked to, and he saw a few pictures, he'd like to examine her but I can't pay for it and so far the owner is firm in believing it's just her breed. 

With the stopping on the lunge, she pretty much at a very good level now. Once the 'whoa' clicked in her brain, she got the concept she does pretty well though she still hesitates on stopping. 

I've been doing really light work to gradually build muscles, trying not to stress anything out. I know the owner doesn't skimp out on paying for a vet because her other horse she invested alot of money for water therapy and all kinds of procedures, it's matter of convincing her it's important enough it needs to be looked at.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Charmander17 said:


> She isn't my horse. So I can't make any actual decisions, I've been pushing the owner very hard to get a vet though, and she says she has. I'm trying her to get my vet who I've already talked to, and he saw a few pictures, he'd like to examine her but I can't pay for it and so far the owner is firm in believing it's just her breed.
> 
> With the stopping on the lunge, she pretty much at a very good level now. Once the 'whoa' clicked in her brain, she got the concept she does pretty well though she still hesitates on stopping.
> 
> I've been doing really light work to gradually build muscles, trying not to stress anything out. I know the owner doesn't skimp out on paying for a vet because her other horse she invested alot of money for water therapy and all kinds of procedures, it's matter of convincing her it's important enough it needs to be looked at.


It may be worth convincing her to just talk to your vet over the phone? Then let him convince her.

Breed is breed. That's not even a breed, that is a cross. Then you have individual horse conformation based on breed, quality, and luck (lol). Then you have any issues.

You have a grade mare with poor conformation (from the little I can see in the pictures, her back at least) with some REALLY wonky spots that are far too dramatic to be purely conformation.

Even a chiro if not the vet may be able to help.

Glad lunging is going well!!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Exotic said:


> Do you think you could try ground driving for awhile? Some horses that have so much energy can be hard. Sounds like you're doing a good job though. Maybe with consistency she will learn. Or when she does stop what about giving her a treat. One show barn I worked for I would let the horses run around free first in the arena and do whatever they wanted before I worked them, they never got to go outside. So this gave them a chance to just be a horse and get horsey time without being 'bossed' around by me. After a bit I would get them and then it was work time, no ifs, ands, or buts. They actually did pretty well with it. I always really tried to be suuupppeeerrr calm, slow, and quiet. Like trying to give no energy to them. They had enough of their own! lol!


A horse that is never allowed to go outside, is not allowed to be 'a horse', regardless of arena free time!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Are those the only pictures-the ones that show up in this thread, but fail to show the entire horse?
Non the less, conformation aside, any horse can stop, if hew respects the word ;whoa. Might not be able to do a sliding stop, or any stop with a lot of hind end engagement, but sure can stop when told whoa
Since the horse was pushy just being led, not stopping on the lunge line,does not have me immediately thinking 'oh my God, this poor horse is in pain,and just can't stop!
You can surely tell iof the horse is lame, just working at the trot. If this is not so, no reason to not expect that horse to respond to 'whoa'
This horse has not even been properly weaned from her yearling, thus already distracted.
Unless lame, I would first get some basics on this horse.
Tie her up regularly
Get respect, and amke 'whoa, an absolute
Then if she truly appears to have a physical problem, first diagnosed by an EQUINE Vet, then might be the time to pursue alternative solutions, like a chiro.
Every horse that fails to respond , respect a human, esp if it lacks regular good training, has a pain issue!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Smilie said:


> Are those the only pictures-the ones that show up in this thread, but fail to show the entire horse?
> Non the less, conformation aside, any horse can stop, if hew respects the word ;whoa. Might not be able to do a sliding stop, or any stop with a lot of hind end engagement, but sure can stop when told whoa
> Since the horse was pushy just being led, not stopping on the lunge line,does not have me immediately thinking 'oh my God, this poor horse is in pain,and just can't stop!
> You can surely tell iof the horse is lame, just working at the trot. If this is not so, no reason to not expect that horse to respond to 'whoa'
> ...


Smilie I completely agree. I do think the horse has some very awkward looking issues that a vet should look into, BUT that was meant (from me at least) as something completely different from the lunging issue. I would look into it but I would also not halt (basic ground) training due to chronic issues that are probably not an acute source of pain. Definitely nothing at all that would give the horse any excuse to not stop on a lunge line! I did not feel that anyone commented on the picture as having anything to do with the thread just a "WOW that horse has a funky topline" Sounds like the lunging is going well.


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## Charmander17 (Dec 17, 2014)

Smilie said:


> Are those the only pictures-the ones that show up in this thread, but fail to show the entire horse?
> Non the less, conformation aside, any horse can stop, if hew respects the word ;whoa. Might not be able to do a sliding stop, or any stop with a lot of hind end engagement, but sure can stop when told whoa
> Since the horse was pushy just being led, not stopping on the lunge line,does not have me immediately thinking 'oh my God, this poor horse is in pain,and just can't stop!
> You can surely tell iof the horse is lame, just working at the trot. If this is not so, no reason to not expect that horse to respond to 'whoa'
> ...


I have to agree with this, she's defintely not lame and she has a very good pace and when a light rider was on her, she had a good attitude. Being unweaned is beginning to become a pain in the butt for me, it does make her distracted easily and she paws alot when distracted. I won't say she respects whoa, but she will listen. I play chicken with her when leading now, I'll skid to a stop and she has to stop behind me or face getting hit with an elbow when I make her give me room.
I didn't think it was a pain issue trying to get her a whoa, it is simply, she doesnt know. Trying to communicate with her is muddled though because it's like she's only half there, we don't do simple warming up circle hardly ever anymore because I've noticed someone must have trined her to simply with a normal never chaning routine. She will do what she knows, but she wont respond right away because it looks like her mind is never actually on the task, she's just going through the motions. and until I physically get her attention, she isn't noticing the next signal I ask. 



> Are those the only pictures-the ones that show up in this thread, but fail to show the entire horse?


There should be one picture of the whole horse, and the next two are just close up of two shot that I noticed weren't right, like the neck and back. 

Overrall the lunging is going well, I've just seemed to open a portal of holes into this horses prevous training is all.


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## Charmander17 (Dec 17, 2014)

I just wanted to update this about the pictures. We had a vet come out and check her out, they did alot of test and there is no pain in her back so they want us to just leave it alone unless we notice any pain or something different. Also, her neck definitely think it is from being "pulled back" but they don't know enough of her history to know where and with who.
Also she's on her 3rd week of being weaned and it's amazing. The lunging isn't a problem anymore, owners are happy with the ground manner improvements because she isn't pushy when leading anymore.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Charmander17 said:


> I just wanted to update this about the pictures. We had a vet come out and check her out, they did alot of test and there is no pain in her back so they want us to just leave it alone unless we notice any pain or something different. Also, her neck definitely think it is from being "pulled back" but they don't know enough of her history to know where and with who.
> Also she's on her 3rd week of being weaned and it's amazing. The lunging isn't a problem anymore, owners are happy with the ground manner improvements because she isn't pushy when leading anymore.


It's great the vet checked her over, but I would recommend a chiro as well.

Fantastic update!!


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