# disappointed and angry... do i expect too much?



## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

hi all,

i am going to be scant on identifying details here because for all i know the barn owner reads this forum.

unfortunately, i have to keep my horse in a boarding facility as i don't have a way to bring him home. i've had a tough time finding a place i consider to be safe and healthy. but, i also am very well aware that i have to make a lot of compromises and accept things that go against my grain if i am going to board. i try to keep it simple and look the other way at practices i don't agree with if they aren't going to hurt my horse. i also try hard to be the "good" boarder who follows all the rules, is pleasant to others, and who doesn't bring drama to the premises.

after months on a waiting list, and looking for other options and not finding any, i finally got into a barn in my area with a very good reputation.

only a week after arriving i learned that there is a cough going around the barn, and it is a virus that has been going through the population for several weeks, after the barn owner brought it home from a horse show back in may.

the barn owner never told me about it. the vet has been out. i don't know what the virus is, only that it is a virus.

when my horse was turned out into his new paddock, after a week's quarrantine, i noticed the horse he shares a waterer with was coughing. i thought it must be heaves, but was told it was the virus. this was after my horse was seen drinking from the waterer.

i was also told there was no other place to put my horse and no place to isolate sick horses. furthermore, my horse had already been exposed, on day 1, because even though he was in "quarantine," "turnout" at this place consists of owners letting their horses run free all over the property, where they can interact with all the horses that are in paddocks, even those that are in "quarantine."

the barn owner was out of town that day, and i removed my horse, saying we were going on a trip. 

because this barn and owner have such a good reputation, i was shocked to learn there was no way to isolate sick horses from the others. this is a very large commercial boarding operation.

it's now the end of the month. there is no notice to leave requirement, and i am debating what to do.

first of all, what do you think about a barn allowing sick horses to interact with all the other horses? this illness has been slowly spreading through the population for weeks, without any controls, or so i was told.

my vet, who i did consult before moving there, did warn me that horses are allowed to run free and interact with penned horses, and he specifically and pointedly said "that will not change." at the time, it didn't occur to me that this could be a health issue. i was simply thinking it would a problem if horses were fighting across the fences. now i realize he may have been warning me about poor disease management.

another horse owner, whose elderly horse is on the other side of the sick horse's paddock, was very upset to learn her horse was being exposed. she said there was nothing that could be done, as there was no other place on the property to put the sick horse or her horse, because the place is full. she'd been there 15 years, and just shrugged.

two things are possible here:

1. this practice is terrible but since there is no other place for people to board in the area, they put the best face they can on it and continue to praise the barn owner.

2. there's nothing so bad about this practice, and i'm too anal about my horse's health.

since i didn't talk to the barn owner himself, i'm thinking of writing him a letter to ask questions about disease/herd management at his barn before deciding whether or not to bring my horse back there.

a friend is letting me keep my horse in her back yard in the meantime. not a good long term solution.

i'd like to know what the experienced horse people here think about this. assuming the info i have is correct--there is no management of disease and show horses are brought home and allowed to spread it among the home horses--is this something that i should tolerate? 

if you found out that you'd moved into a barn where the horses were sick, and the barn owner didn't tell you in advance, what would you do?

i don't have other great options, but at least at his temporary quarters, my horse is away from a disease environment. worse comes to worse, i can board him with a friend a couple of hours away and know he is getting good care.

btw, this place has fabulous amenities at a reasonable price, making it highly attractive to the local horse community. but those amenities are not important enough to me to endanger my horse.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, I don't particularly like the idea of allowing loose horses to run around penned ones. the over the fence fighting is a worry.

but, I think it's unrealistic to think that you can contain a virus at a large facility like that, unless you have extremely strict protocol. even if they don't share a waterer, the people working there can easily spread virus on their feet or hands. however, it might be good to at least have a vet verify that the virus is nothing more than a common cold type.

it sounds like you are in a bit of a quandary.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

I second having a vet tell you exactly what's going on. There's a big difference between, say, the horse version of the common cold and something like strangles. It's hard to contain viruses at places like that though, as stated previously the virus can be spread quite easily by humans so it can be difficult to eradicate completely. I do think, however, that if the barn owner introduced the whatever-it-is to the barn's tenants than any horses requiring veterinary care should be dealt with by the barn owner. It's HIS horses that brought it in, he ought to know better. And the quarantine-that's-not-a-quarantine is kinda funny to me too. Is it quarantine or isn't it? Obviously if other horses share waterers and/or can interact through or over a fence, it's not really quarantine. 

-- Kai


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Agreed.

However, I WOULD except any horses showing signs of sickness be kept separate from the others, no matter if it's in vain or not. While I know it is hard to contain something like that, an effort really should be made. 

At that point though, what can you do? If the horse has already been exposed, taking him away just spreads it more. Almost think he should just be left until whatever it is has run its course, and of course take the vets advice.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

Well, too late for leaving my horse there. He was removed a week ago. I'm keeping him isolated and checking his temperature.

I guess I wasn't too clear on my real questions.

1. Is this situation acceptable? Just asking for a reality check here, since I tend to be rather protective of my horse, despite knowing that I can't protect him from everything.

2. If not acceptable, how should I handle leaving?


I'm thinking of sending the barn owner a letter stating my concerns and asking for an update on the situation there and for an explanation of how he handles disease outbreaks. before i would consider bringing my horse back.

horse communities are small, i don't want to burn bridges or hurt my own reputation because i'm still looking for a good boarding situation.

it's the last day of the month and i need to decide what to do today.


and kai, the "quarantine" was for the week before my horse was moved to his new paddock.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you keep your horse on any competition yard/barn there's always going to be horses at risk of catching something and taking it back and it would be impossible for every horse that's been to a show to be in quarantine for a week afterwards every time if they have a lot of horses competing somewhere each week.
If you're happy with everything else there and its the sort of environment you want to be in then be sure your horse is immunized for all the diseases you can cover for and go from there
I do think they were irresponsible in allowing a new horse onto their property when they knew they had a contagious infection on site and that is something you could ask about. Normally in a situation like that the entire yard would be shut down with nothing going in or out and precautions put in place to minimize further spread.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> 1. Is this situation acceptable? Just asking for a reality check here, since I tend to be rather protective of my horse, despite knowing that I can't protect him from everything.
> 
> 2. If not acceptable, how should I handle leaving?





dazedconfused said:


> only a week after arriving *i learned* that there is a cough going around the barn, and it is a virus that has been going through the population for several weeks, after the barn owner brought it home from a horse show back in may.
> 
> the barn owner never told me about it. the vet has been out. i don't know what the virus is, only that it is a virus.


I guess I would want to learn more about the situation before passing judgement on the BO. 

So who was it then that told you there was a cough going around the barn?
When you say "the vet has been out", has the vet checked your horse? Or do you mean the vet examined horses at the barn?
Have you personally spoken to the vet?

I think it just really depends on the situation, how I would react. For sure, I think it would be pertinent to know more details. 




dazedconfused said:


> since i didn't talk to the barn owner himself, i'm thinking of writing him a letter to ask questions about disease/herd management at his barn before deciding whether or not to bring my horse back there.


I guess it seems very odd to me that you haven't had any communication with the BO yet. 

Have you *asked*?

If I "heard" through the grapevine that something was going on at the barn, the very first thing I would do is talk in-person to the BO. 

I am not meaning to put you down, in any sense, but most of your post in here-say. It does not sound like you have talked to anyone (BO or examining vet) who would have FACTS about what exactly is going on. It couple be that a couple of the horses have a general cough and someone is spreading rumors about a virus, and there's no virus at all. (There are people in boarding environments that like to start drama like that.)




dazedconfused said:


> i'd like to know what the experienced horse people here think about this.
> 
> *assuming* the info i have is correct


As an experienced horse person, the first thing I will tell you is *do not assume. 

*Find out the facts, and make your decision from there on how to proceed.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

This is kind of a tough one because, as a private BO, I would not find this acceptable. HOWEVER, I also brought a new horse home this spring and despite having quarantined her in a totally separate barn from everyone else, I forgot to clean the trailer I hauled her in. So, when I loaded some horses up in the trailer, guess what? I exposed the entire barn and we got the nastiest case of strangles I've ever seen. Almost lost my stallion to it. So.........

In a boarding situation, especially a large and busy show barn? Not a whole lot you can do to contain stuff, especially the little cough things that go around. I have a horse at a small trainers and it seems like 2X/year the youngsters who are in for breaking end up with a cough. I have started feeding all of mine DMG from Smart Pak and (touch wood) haven't had a sick horse since, not even the 2 yo at the trainer's. So to answer your question......

Yes and no. If the facilities and amenities are really great and you're happy with the place and price otherwise......then I would start the horse on an immune booster and take him back. It doesn't sound like the BO can do anything to stop the stuff, so you'll just have to do your best. Also, you MAY find it hard to find another facility until your horse has been out of there and clear of disease for 30 days before they would let you bring him in.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

did you horse catch the virus? is it possible that your horse may have carried that virus with it to the new place you've moved him to?


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

I think it was bad management to allow any horses to enter or leave the property with the sickness going around. Also allowing the horses to free run the property, especially at such a large facility, is a serious hazard.

I do understand that it is nigh impossible to contain a virus between horses on any property. It sounds like they could be more preventative, but they can never completely get rid of the chance of that.

Probably my biggest issues with this place would be that I was not informed before my horse arrived on the property, and the running loose around the property. So they have loose horses around while other owners are trying to lead between the barn and arena or whatever? Sounds very dangerous. I'm more wary of it than most because my mare was a chronic kicker for many years, but only at strange horses.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

beau159 said:


> I guess I would want to learn more about the situation before passing judgement on the BO.
> 
> So who was it then that told you there was a cough going around the barn?


the assistant barn manager.



> When you say "the vet has been out", has the vet checked your horse? Or do you mean the vet examined horses at the barn?
> Have you personally spoken to the vet?


the barn owner's vet came out when the barn owner's own horse got sick. i am not sure which vet this was.



> I guess it seems very odd to me that you haven't had any communication with the BO yet.


BO was out of town for a week during the same period i was out of town for a week. i had already decided to not leave my horse in their care while i was out of town for other reasons.



> Have you *asked*?
> 
> If I "heard" through the grapevine that something was going on at the barn, the very first thing I would do is talk in-person to the BO.


i sent an email to the BO this afternoon. it's now late at night and there has been no answer. i was told BO would be back from his trip by now.



> I am not meaning to put you down, in any sense, but most of your post in here-say. It does not sound like you have talked to anyone (BO or examining vet) who would have FACTS about what exactly is going on. It couple be that a couple of the horses have a general cough and someone is spreading rumors about a virus, and there's no virus at all. (There are people in boarding environments that like to start drama like that.)


yes, i know. but it was the person in charge in the BO's absence who told me.




> As an experienced horse person, the first thing I will tell you is *do not assume.
> 
> *Find out the facts, and make your decision from there on how to proceed.


i totally agree. that is why i wrote a respectful, non-confrontational message to the BO today to find out what the facts are, including why I wasn't informed that there is an illness going around the barn before moving in.

i have also asked for the name of the consulting vet so i can get the facts.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

> I have started feeding all of mine DMG from Smart Pak and (touch wood) haven't had a sick horse since


what is this product? an immune booster? is it too late to start him on it?


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

doing all you can to isolate a new horse, and then having the herd get sick anyway, that's a far cry from bringing home a new horse, letting it roam among the entire herd, and putting no controls in place at all. one is, bad things happen despite one's best efforts. the other is simple negligence.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

tinyliny said:


> did you horse catch the virus? is it possible that your horse may have carried that virus with it to the new place you've moved him to?


afaik, my horse is not sick. he doesn't have an elevated temperature, and seems in every way normal.

the first thing i did when i found out was called the one vet in the area who does quarrantines, and asked for a spot for my horse.

he said unless my horse has at least a 102F temperature, there was no justification for quarrantine, and wouldn't take my horse.

i haven't moved him to a new place. he's in isolation at a friend's place where he can't infect another horse, and i'm continuing to take his temperature.

i read that most viruses incubate for 1 to 3 days. when will i know if he's going to get it or not? it's been about two weeks since his first exposure.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> what is this product? an immune booster? is it too late to start him on it?


https://www.smartpakequine.com/ps/dmg-by-smartpak-7177

I've used this for years. It's now being marketed as a muscle recovery agent, but originally it was sold to me to help a horse with an allergic response to fly bites and it worked miracle. When my stallion became so ill with strangles, after all the meds (ever smelled systemic DMSO? UGH!) were finished, I got him on it because he was so poor. He started to perk up and gain weight again after being on the DMSO for about 1 month, where before we just couldn't seem to get him gaining again. 

It's not too late to put him on it, but if he's going to come down with it, he's already been exposed. The DMG might lessen the severity, I don't know. I DO know that in a boarding situation I will KEEP my horse on the DMG. And BTW the one at the trainer's has been on it since before he went and when the cough went through the training barn this spring, mine is the only horse who didn't get it.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> doing all you can to isolate a new horse, and then having the herd get sick anyway, that's a far cry from bringing home a new horse, letting it roam among the entire herd, and putting no controls in place at all. one is, bad things happen despite one's best efforts. the other is simple negligence.


I don't know what you mean when you say a "Large" boarding facility but to me, that means in excess of 100 horses. If there are that many horses, and you have several who go out and come back regularly either showing or trail riding, then unless you KEEP those horses in a QT barn there's no real way to segregate those horses. I also don't agree with just letting horses run around the property in such a setting but it's also the BO's property and nothing you say or do is going to change that situation and it sounds like the vet tried to tell you that too. When you're boarding at someone else's place, you have to accept their ways of doing things or move, it's really pretty black and white.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> afaik, my horse is not sick. he doesn't have an elevated temperature, and seems in every way normal.
> 
> the first thing i did when i found out was called the one vet in the area who does quarrantines, and asked for a spot for my horse.
> 
> ...


I would keep the horse segregated for 30 days to be safe, unless you're going to take him back to the barn. My strangles epidemic started almost 30 days post introduction. I bought the horse Mar. 19 and on April 10 saw that she had lumps under her chin and she started acting depressed. I know that what's going around your barn isn't strangles according to what's been described, but just so you know, it can and does take quite a while to get that all cleaned up and out of your barn. I got my final clean culture on the last of 10 horses to come down with it, in the end of JULY. My stallion was in the vet hospital for almost a month on an IV with a tracheotomy tube in his neck. The QT was not lifted on my entire place until July 30. 

If your horse has not been vaccinated for strangles, I would definitely do that too. Your vet can administer the IN version of the vaccine and it will help cut the severity or prevent him catching it if he's ever exposed. Vaccines in a boarded horse are not something I would skip or skimp on.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

> My strangles epidemic started almost 30 days post introduction. I bought the horse Mar. 19 and on April 10 saw that she had lumps under her chin and she started acting depressed. I know that what's going around your barn isn't strangles according to what's been described, but just so you know, it can and does take quite a while to get that all cleaned up and out of your barn. I got my final clean culture on the last of 10 horses to come down with it, in the end of JULY. My stallion was in the vet hospital for almost a month on an IV with a tracheotomy tube in his neck. The QT was not lifted on my entire place until July 30.


what a nightmare.

if it isn't strangles, just a cold or flu, wouldn't he have already come down with it?

if it is strangles, shouldn't this be reported to the state veterinarian?

at this point, i'm thinking that nobody is going to tell me the truth about what is happening at this place. the vet is going to beg client confidentiality. the other boarders are either in the dark or don't want to cross the barn owner.

also, as i may have already mentioned, my horse isn't vaccinated to the standard for horse shows, because i don't do horse shows. i'm thinking if i do go back i need time to get him vaccinated properly and time for the immunity to kick in.

dreamcatcher, from what i understand, one should NEVER vaccinate for strangles when a horse has been exposed and may have it, as this can cause much worse problems. neither of my vets like to give strangles vaccine more than once or twice, and my horse has already been given the strangles vaccine twice. the last time was more than a year ago.

i also have heard that the strangles vaccine, in addition to being risky in itself, doesn't provide very much protection. interested to know what others here think about that.

what vaccination protocol should a horse at a show barn have? right now my horse only gets his six-way in early spring, then potomac fever in mid-summer.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

One of my horses has the intra nasal strangles vaccine and has had no ill effects at all from it. I believe that its more effective than the vaccination but shouldn't be given on the same day as other injections
Not all horses that get strangles exhibit extreme/visible symptoms and some can appear to just have a mild flu type virus or be a bit under the weather because they've already got some immunity but they can still be carriers
If you've got any worries about your horse then get it tested.
If the situation with the loose horses is a concern (not something I could live with) then I think the facility isn't going to work for you


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

> If the situation with the loose horses is a concern (not something I could live with)


several people brought this up as a potential issue to me before i moved in. but never having been in a boarding situation where this was what goes on, i couldn't imagine why it would be a problem (my horse has lived in large herd situations before without issue).

mind telling us what the potential issues are ? (aside from now i see it's a terrible way to manage disease outbreaks!)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

From the disease spread perspective I'm not sure it would be such a deal breaker because a virus will spread from horse to horse over the fences or between stalls and the only way to even try to control risks would be to quarantine horses every time they return from any place 'off site' where they've been in contact with other horses. It's not always practical to do that on a big yard
Common sense should tell a BM or BO that the moment they suspect a horse is contagious they should try to isolate it but a horse of mine and several others caught strangles on a yard she was being kept at even though the infected horse(s) had never been near any of the others and the people handling them had been extremely careful not to go near other horses unless they had too and even then not without all the disinfecting routine
What I wouldn't want is loose horses wandering round the place under no supervision, as in not confined to a paddock - I'm not totally understanding what's happening there


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

jaydee said:


> What I wouldn't want is loose horses wandering round the place under no supervision, as in not confined to a paddock - I'm not totally understanding what's happening there



that's exactly what is happening. the barn owner and many of the boarders allow their horses to roam throughout the full property at liberty. the only requirement is that you keep a halter on your horse. this is how they do "turnout."

so, the disease issue aside, why do you think this is undesirable?

personally i think keeping the halter on is dangerous, but obviously necessary since the horses can get into everything and people need a way to be able to get ahold of them.

i would not allow my own horse to be turned out in this way because i'd worry about him getting hurt--by another horse or by equipment or other hazards. but if other people want to do that with their horses, and it is a large area--over 100 acres--how might it negatively impact me and/or my horse?

the only thing i can think of is horses at liberty messing with me and my horse while we are working together or riding. i was told that hasn't happened to anyone.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> what a nightmare.
> 
> if it isn't strangles, just a cold or flu, wouldn't he have already come down with it?
> 
> ...


Dazed, I don't know about the cold/flu thing, I just know that when shipping horses in and out of country they recommend a 30 day QT and the recommendations are: Horses separated by at least 12 feet, no nose to nose contact. I automatically stick a new horse in a different barn from my others for 30 days. If nothing happens in 30 days, I go ahead and put them in a stall in the main barn and let them start getting to know each other. But I'm very small, only around 10 horses at any given time so I have the room and facilities to do that. It's what saved me with the strangles outbreak, I had 2 pregnant, almost ready to drop mares but had already put them in the foaling stalls in a separate building. 

I NEVER give the strangles IM vaccine, have seen way too many nasty site reactions and decided long ago it was too risky with way too little return (protection) to mess with it. The IN is better, but should be given separately from other vaccs. It is a modified live vaccine so is much more effective. Here's a link to an article from the AAEP: Strangles

I give my horses their yearly 6 way vaccs about 30 days before the first mare is due to foal. I give 48 hrs, arbitrary on my part, and then I do Rabies. I won't do strangles for 5 years, with the exception of the 4 (2 mothers & foals) who were not ever exposed or sick. The vets said that with the full blown ugly cases I had, the immunity should be 5 years. After that I will vaccinate annually. 

When I vaccinate the 2 mares & 2 foals for strangles, when the foals have been weaned, I will separate them from the herd and keep them separate for about 10 days to make sure no one has any ill effects. 

You're correct, if a horse is sick it shouldn't be vaccinated, and I'd put all vaccs in that group. Why challenge an already challenged immune system further? 

Strangles (Equine Strep) is not on the list of APHIS reportable diseases as far as I know. A good facility will shut down and voluntarily QT and monitor all traffic on and off during an outbreak. I know my horses had no one but the vet and 1 assigned hand, in and out of that barn for the duration. No farrier, no friends, no can I bring my mom to see the new foals, nothing. I spent a fortune on Nolvasan and we dipped our shoes and washed and sanitized our hands, and showered and changed clothes right after handling any sick stock. We kept our gates shut and I maintained a log of everyone who came on or off the property whether they went near the horse barns or not. It's a colossal PIA and I can't imagine a boarding facility wanting to let something like that get out of hand.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

dazedconfused said:


> that's exactly what is happening. the barn owner and many of the boarders allow their horses to roam throughout the full property at liberty. the only requirement is that you keep a halter on your horse. this is how they do "turnout."
> 
> so, the disease issue aside, why do you think this is undesirable?
> 
> .



allowing horses to roam free all over the property, outside of penned horses, seems very odd to me. that would never be allowed at our barn.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> several people brought this up as a potential issue to me before i moved in. but never having been in a boarding situation where this was what goes on, i couldn't imagine why it would be a problem (my horse has lived in large herd situations before without issue).
> 
> mind telling us what the potential issues are ? (aside from now i see it's a terrible way to manage disease outbreaks!)


I don't even allow MY own horses to mill about at will all over the place. There's just too much they can get into, get hurt on, corners to trap each other in and get in fights over and through fences....I mean, it's just practically endless. 

That they let OTHER horses out to do that wouldn't necessarily be a total deal breaker to me, as long as they understood that MY horse was never to be thrown out in the crowd like that. Out on a pasture or turn out is one thing but just all over? Not so much.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

thanks for everyone's input. i sent a friendly but probing letter to the barn owner (email) and have heard nothing back.

my partner and i have been joking that this is a F.U. barn: if you don't like what is on the menu, then F.U. (because of barn owner's attitude).

i suspect i will hear nothing back.

off to go take my horse's temperature.... !

i suppose i will just let this go and keep my horse where he is until the 30 days are up--unless he comes down with something. depending on what it is, the gloves may come off.

is it possible to test a horse with zero symptoms to find out if they are harboring a disease? should i take my horse in to the vet at this point?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Honestly that place sounds like an accident waiting to happen and I'd look for someplace else. 
A vet can blood test your horse to see if it has an active infection of some sort


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> is it possible to test a horse with zero symptoms to find out if they are harboring a disease? should i take my horse in to the vet at this point?


I would not call the vet at this point. Save your money for a) if he does come down with something, you can treat it or b) moving to the next barn.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> thanks for everyone's input. i sent a friendly but probing letter to the barn owner (email) and have heard nothing back.
> 
> my partner and i have been joking that this is a F.U. barn: if you don't like what is on the menu, then F.U. (because *of barn owner's attitude*).
> 
> i suspect i will hear nothing back.


While one can argue that email can give you a_ written_ response from the BO, it seems that a phone call would give you a _faster_ response from the BO, than an email. Or else a text message, if the BO does text messages.

I'm confused; if the barn owner has a "bad attitude" that seems to rub you the wrong way, why did you choose to board at their facility?

(Or are you assuming the BO has an attitude because they haven't responded to your email yet?)

I've only boarded at 3 different places over the years and none of them were a "boarding barn" per se, but I have never communicated by email to any of them. It was almost always in person, or once in a while by text. Personally, I want to be a good acquaintance with the BO as they are the person who I am trusting to take care of my horses!!



dazedconfused said:


> also, as i may have already mentioned, my horse isn't vaccinated to the standard for horse shows, because i don't do horse shows. i'm thinking if i do go back i need time to get him vaccinated properly and time for the immunity to kick in.


In my opinion, if you are going to keep your horse at a public boarding facility, they should be vaccinated as if you were showing (even if you don't). Because undoubtedly there will be horses in the barn who will be traveling, which will also expose your horse as others are coming and going to shows or trail riding or whatever it may be.



dazedconfused said:


> the barn owner and many of the boarders allow their horses to roam throughout the full property at liberty. the only requirement is that you keep a halter on your horse. this is how they do "turnout."
> 
> so, the disease issue aside, why do you think this is undesirable?
> 
> personally i think keeping the halter on is dangerous, but obviously necessary since the horses can get into everything and people need a way to be able to get ahold of them.


At the last place I boarded, the horses were all in a large 140 acre pasture together. I see nothing wrong with that. Of course, if one of the horses was seriously "beating up" on the others and/or couldn't get along (moreso than your "normal" or expected displays of herd behavior), they were taken out of the large herd and kept separate. It was pasture board. They were in the pasture 24/7. Usually there were about 15 horses (and 2 donkeys :wink: ) at this place. And sometimes, there was a horse or a few who were locked up in the pens by the barn for various reasons. My Red septn 2 months in one of them while he healed from an injury. The horses in the big pasture can come all the way to those pens, because that is where the automatic waterers are. (although there is water in the pasture too). Again, I don't see anything wrong with this.

I do agree with you on the halters though. We did *not* have to have halters on our horses, and I agree I don't like them on because they can get caught on things.

But as far as being turned out with everyone else, I see no problem with that.



dazedconfused said:


> only a week after arriving i learned that there is a cough going around the barn, and it is a virus that has been going through the population for several weeks, after the barn owner brought it home from a horse show back in may.
> 
> the barn owner never told me about it. the vet has been out. i don't know what the virus is, only that it is a virus.
> 
> when my horse was turned out into his new paddock, after a week's quarrantine, i noticed the horse he shares a waterer with was coughing. i thought it must be heaves, but was told it was the virus. this was after my horse was seen drinking from the waterer.


If this "virus" causes nothing more than a cough and a snotty nose, I too would do the same as the BO and _not_ get crazy about quarantining horses. Of course, I know you are waiting for more direct information from the BO, but at this point it does not sound serious based on what you have observed thus far. Of course, the BO's slowness to inform all the boarders of the situation can be debated. But if it is NOT serious, that may be why the BO hasn't made a big deal about it. If I were you, a phone call would be in order, or even stopping by in person.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I hope the BO emails you back, but if not...I'd take the next step and just have a meeting in person with them. Needless to say, it sounds like a lot of 'he said, she said'. Nobody really has any facts? I think the BO should take into consideration of the horses if there IS in fact a bad virus going around, yes, people should be notified and a vet should take a look if it's serious, like people are 'assuming' it is, it sounds like. But who really knows what exactly happened? 

However, if you are nervous about YOUR horse you could get some bloodwork done but as beau159 said, if it's just a cough/nose problem, I wouldn't ring the alarm. Sounds to me like it's not a SERIOUS issue, but you need to discuss with your BO on all the details. I can't really give much advice because none of us really know what truly happened. Your BO would definitely know more. 

Good luck!! Let us know what happens! 

AND...regarding the halters, I do not agree with that either. I'd never turn my horse out with a halter on. Break-away halters are best, but I still don't take that risk. I've heard and even seen some stories and they were not pretty.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

update:

heard back from the owner. he's already given my place at the barn away and is sending me a full refund for august since i was there such a short time.

absolutely no answers to any of my questions--who the vet is, what the virus is, what practices they use for disease management, why i wasn't told about the virus. nada.

i was not expecting any amount of refund but i will accept it and use it to pay for the resulting vet expenses.

my take on this: "this is my fiefdom and i'll do as i please and if you question me you are out of here."

so long as my horse isn't sick i will let this go--don't need the drama. but if he is so unlucky as to come down with something bad, the barn owner has not heard the last of this.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

> While one can argue that email can give you a_ written_ response from the BO, it seems that a phone call would give you a _faster_ response from the BO, than an email. Or else a text message, if the BO does text messages.
> 
> I'm confused; if the barn owner has a "bad attitude" that seems to rub you the wrong way, why did you choose to board at their facility?
> 
> ...


owner is not easy to run into at the barn, and not easy to set up a meeting time with, but that wasn't the only reason.

i didn't need a fast response, just a response. an email allowed me to keep my questions neutral and not get upset, and make sure i'm saying what i want to say. also, if things went sideways, as they very well could, i wouldn't feel like i'd wasted an hour of my time and gas driving out there.

the BO is a notorious *sshole, as confirmed by the many people i know who have dealt with him, but he has a very nice facility and community of boarders. he also has a reputation of being a very competent and knowledgeable horseman. there are very limited options in my area, and i felt i could handle him. i thought of it as being like choosing the talented surgeon with the terrible beside manner. :-D


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> update:
> 
> heard back from the owner. he's already given my place at the barn away and is sending me a full refund for august since i was there such a short time.
> 
> ...


I think you need to be happy with this. He certainly didn't need to give you a refund and in fact, I have known BO's that would go after you for a 30 day notice on top of the board, even if you weren't there. So, he knows you and he aren't going to be a good fit, wants to keep peace and made this offer. Take it and run. I seriously doubt there's going to be anything serious with your horse, if he's been exposed in early August when you moved in and now you're to Sept with nothing.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

Dreamcatcher, my horse moved in only two weeks ago, and was only there for a week. I was surprised at the refund. The contract says no refunds. It also says no notice needs to be given, on either side. I think he is buying his way out of having to answer my questions, or even (in his mind) a possible liability suit for negligence. I don't think he would have done that if he didn't know he was in the wrong. 

My horse won't be in the clear for another three weeks.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> if you found out that you'd moved into a barn where the horses were sick, and the barn owner didn't tell you in advance, what would you do?
> 
> ...
> 
> the BO is a notorious *sshole, as confirmed by the many people i know who have dealt with him


Well it sounds like you went into this situation *knowing* the BO was not easy to deal with, so I suppose it shouldn't be a shocker that he doesn't keep you abreast of what is going on. 

*shrug*

To me, it sounds less to be an issue about the actual virus itself _(which at this point, we don't even know if horses are actually "sick")_ and more that you are now second-guessing yourself if this is really the facility for you. Of course, if it's not, give him your notice and move on.

Edit: Just read your other response I missed. Well, as a BO, it is his right just as much as yours to end the "relationship". Sounds like it probably wasn't going to work anyway, between the two of you. I'll bet your horse will be fine and you two will never have to cross paths again. Good luck.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

dazedconfused said:


> Dreamcatcher, my horse moved in only two weeks ago, and was only there for a week. ................
> My horse won't be in the clear for another three weeks.


Ok, so your horse moved in on about the 15th, it's now the 1st. 17 days down, exposure started the day he moved in. You have roughly 10 days left for the 'all clear'. I would be feeling better and better every day that he doesn't have a fever or cough. It's more and more likely that you will not have a sick horse, that's an excellent thing.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

Left the barn on the 22nd, so 30 days from there. A decent person would have answered my questions, especially if this isn't serious, so as to save me the concern. And even more important to know if it is serious. 

I have been reading up on equine viruses and an apparently minor cough can turn out to be strangles or EHV. 

I don't have any reason to disbelieve the barn owner's own employee that something is going around there.

Moving on, and glad of it. Shopping for hay today and meeting nice people along the way. Headed out to see my horse and check his vitals again. A PITA!!


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

Well, you are very lucky they gave you a refund as most places don't. I hope your horse is not sick and this was all just a little frenzy that turned ugly. 

Sure you will find a better barn and a nicer BO soon! I'm glad they at least responded even if it wasn't the answer you wanted.


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## Chasin Ponies (Dec 25, 2013)

OP I'm glad it looks like everything is going to be fine and that you are out of there!
As a long time boarder and despite what people say about rumors, in small communities horse people talk and when you hear something bad about a place especially several times, believe it. It sounds like your vet was trying to warn you without actually saying anything that could get him in trouble.

This statement you made is true of quite a few boarding stables and if you complain you are tagged as a troublemaker and targeted by the BO: _"1. This practice is terrible but since there is no other place for people to board in the area, they put the best face they can on it and continue to praise the barn owner"._ This especially happens where boarding is hard to find because let's face it, they'd be empty if there were lots of better choices.

None of the places I've boarded have had a quarantine policy at all and at one, our whole barn paid for it. The BO allowed a very sick horse to come in, it wasn't strangles and the vet just called it shipping fever. Every single horse in the barn got it and all but one recovered very well. There was one boarder's gelding that developed lifelong lung issues from it, was on steroid treatments for the rest of his short life and died young at 11. There are more idiot BOs who know nothing about horses than there are good, professional ones as you will sadly find out.

Develop a large network of fellow horse owners. You don't have to be best friends with them but even your friendly acquaintances can be a great source of information. Some of the best boarding barns, farriers, dentist ect, never advertise. Why? Because their clients do their advertising for them!


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

There are SO many non illness reasons the horses can be coughing. Heck, the "elite" barn I work at has had horses coughing simply due to it being a drought and there is SO much dust that we just can't do anything about. There's nothing wrong with them and an occasional cough is not to worry about (let alone panic). Obviously not ideal, but it is what it is sometimes. Or could be fall allergies. Or even if it is a cold that does happen sometimes and really isn't panic worthy.

Honestly it sounds like the place doesn't have the best management and that alone is reason to leave (I would NEVER settle), but the other concerns aren't really realistic. Colds do go around barns sometimes. I have never seen a barn quarantine around here (unless horse is sick, or an unvaccinated rescue, etc). The few quarantines I have seen sure wouldn't protect anyone from anything!

Nice that you got a refund, move on and find a well run place, I'm sure they do exist!

"In my opinion, if you are going to keep your horse at a public boarding facility, they should be vaccinated as if you were showing (even if you don't). Because undoubtedly there will be horses in the barn who will be traveling, which will also expose your horse as others are coming and going to shows or trail riding or whatever it may be."

COMPLETELY agree with this. A good barn will have minimum requirements too. Most of the diseases around here aren't a huge worry as far as transmittability but the standard is Rabies EWT West Nile as core vaccines (it's really just mosquitos!). My horses at my parents have that. My mare who is at a small boarding barn and does not leave the barn (ONE other horse occasionally does) gets Flu/Rhino and has a Coggins on top of that, and of course you can get a cold you can't vaccinate for, but I get colds too, the world doesn't end.


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## dazedconfused (Aug 30, 2016)

The problem is I was specifically told by the BM that it is a virus (I hopefully suggested that it might be dust and was told no). And the BO brought it there and did nothing to protect the horses who weren't sick so it's been going around the barn three months now. Incubation is apparently slow, according to BM, which suggests it could be strangles.

Beyond that, I don't feel there's any excuse for not telling a HO who is about to move in that something is going around. I also don't think there is any excuse for not answering reasonable questions so that I know what my horse was exposed to.

And the refund, I feel pretty sure, is an attempt to buy my silence. Or at the very least, it's a mea culpa. Yet to be seen if it actually shows up in my mailbox.

Horses: they make us hostages to fortune.

His temperature has remained normal, knock wood. So far there are no acceptable places to board in the area that have an opening. I will leave this area at the earliest possible opportunity and in the meantime board him far away, with people I trust, if I have to.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

After 3 months I like to think you would know if it was strangles...

If you are so concerned about him being sick then don't find a new barn just yet unless they are willing to take on a sick horse and quarantine, otherwise you're just doing what the BO did.


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