# What am I doing wrong? Horse keeps picking up wrong lead in canter



## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

When other people, better riders than I, ride my mare, she picks up the right lead *most* of the time. Not always, but maybe 80% of the time. So she's on the wrong lead about 20% of the time. Some days she's better than others.

When I ride her, she almost never gets the right lead. We're hitting the wrong lead about 90% of the time.

Obviously, the fault is with me. She's being ridden a lot and is very muscled and pretty supple. The ortho says she has zero problems with her back and the farrier says her feet are great. Her saddle is perfect. She rides fine with experienced riders on her back, so I know it's something I'm doing wrong.

My instructors tried several things to help us:

1. Reins shorter to support her head more: This worked a couple times, but then she went back to the wrong lead again. Now it doesn't help at all.

2. Over-cueing with the outside leg really far back and the other on the cinch: made no difference.

3. Only cueing with the inside leg: no difference.

4. Only cueing with the outside leg: no difference.

5. Starting at trot while posting to the wrong diagonal: Worked 3 times then stopped working altogether.

6. Using the reins to push the shoulder to the outside while cueing normally: She takes off on the right lead, then after two steps, trots, transitions to the wrong lead, and goes like crazy on the wrong lead.

What would you do if you had this problem? I'm desperate for help. :?


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## Dawn854 (Aug 11, 2013)

Subbing, I'm interested to hear answers too! I can never seem to get my guy's left lead when I want it.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Are you sitting up straight and centered in the saddle when asking or are you leaning forward to look at the leg so that you know you got the right lead? Make sure you are sitting up straight when asking for the lead. Try not to pull tight on the reins, just give a half halt to collect and then let the reins looser when asking. Could be that you aren't holding them level when asking and your putting her into the wrong lead.... Just a couple thoughts.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

do you mean she takes or doesn't take the right lead , or the "correct" lead? 

I mean, is this a matter of her wanting to canter on the left lead only?


the way you are sitting is very likely the issue. it helps to think of advancing your inside hip, a bit like a fencer (with an epee) when lunging will advance the hip that on the same side as the epee. your shoulders will not turn quite as much, though.

and, look to the outside of the circle, just a bit.

think ,visualize, that you are riding the hind end only, as if your horse were an ostrich, and only had two legs. this gets you really over the hind end , where you want your canter depart to originate from.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

My first advice to you is to learn to relax. The more tense you become, the harder it is for you to use your body as needed. As you become tense, so does your horse. When your horse is tense, it is less likely to feel your cues as cues. A tense horse is also less capable of responding well when it does understand.

Balance and motion are keys to riding well. To begin with, your center of gravity should be above your horse's center of gravity. If the horse is traveling on the forehand, you should execute a half-halt as you re-balance yourself; this should help your horse re-balance. Your lateral weight should normally remain balanced. Be sure you are not leaning to the side; this includes looking at the side of your horse's head or at her shoulder to see if she takes the correct lead. Your horse may forgive such faults to take her favorite lead but will probably not do so when asked to take her least favorite lead.

Many cues have been propounded by various authorities. You might want to read Martin Diggle's book "Masters of Equitation on Canter" to learn their theories. 

An almost universal cue is for the rider to bring his outside leg back -- left leg when asking for a right lead. The reason for this can best be found in understanding how a horse moves in the canter. In a right lead, the horse's right shoulder and right hip travel slightly in advance of its left shoulder and left hip. For this same reason, I tell riders to bring their inside hip slightly forward if they can do so without shifting their lateral balance.

While we generally want the horse's head slightly angled to the inside at the pole, one woman I know finally got her horse to take his least favorite lead by turning her horse's head to the outside. Horses in freedom often turn their heads to the outside for balance when taking a canter. Of course, horses in freedom don't worry about cantering with straight bodies. When we ride, we generally want our horse to travel "straight". Rather than turning his head to the outside for balance, we expect our horse to reach further beneath his body with his inside hind foot. This is why many riders advise cuing with pressure of the inside leg.

Experimentation is often necessary to find what works best with an individual horse. Once success is achieved, work can be done to modify cues. However, when experimenting you should strive to not try too hard as mentioned in my first paragraph.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Ohh, I can sure see myself in your post, TX! I am that one who is looking at the side of the horse, or leaning over her/his shoulder. it's like, "here, let me help you", and of course, it's no help at all.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

By barely tipping my horse's nose to the outside, I get the correct lead every time. Tip it to the inside and it doesn't go well. Also, when I ask for the lope/canter I am mindful of where the driving hind leg is. While the foot is at the bottom of the stride (touching the ground) I close my fingers a little tighter on the outside rein as a signal.When it is leaving the ground that is when I ask. It gives the horse a good second to respond. This helps him transition into the canter. When you do get your horse to canter, keep his nose tipped to the outside to help him balance. Think of it as a crutch to help him while his muscles develop. Those of us who are right-handed don't do things as well with the left unless we really work at it. Same thing with horses.


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## Ella1982 (Aug 7, 2014)

Have you been to a chiro (not the horse)? If you are "off" it can be affecting your posture and therefore your horse as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Saddlebag said:


> *By barely tipping my horse's nose to the outside, I get the correct lead every time.* Tip it to the inside and it doesn't go well. Also, when I ask for the lope/canter I am mindful of where the driving hind leg is. While the foot is at the bottom of the stride (touching the ground) I close my fingers a little tighter on the outside rein as a signal.When it is leaving the ground that is when I ask. It gives the horse a good second to respond. This helps him transition into the canter. When you do get your horse to canter, keep his nose tipped to the outside to help him balance. Think of it as a crutch to help him while his muscles develop. Those of us who are right-handed don't do things as well with the left unless we really work at it. Same thing with horses.


I recommend NOT doing this. You will be counterflexing your horse and will make the problem of doing it incorrectly worse. This used to be done a lot, back in the day. Now, people try to address what is likely causing this problem, instead.

I suspect the problem is that your horse is "right handed" like most horses are. That's right, horses are either right or left "handed" just like people.

This is manifested by a horse that like to throw their weight onto the stronger side. When they throw their weight onto the inside, they will be unable to bend correctly. This weight on the inside shoulder makes it very hard to pick up the inside lead. You can tell this is happening by the horse leaning way in on the circle, falling into the circle.

I ride mostly English, so my instructions are more geared towards it. But, it works with western, too.

The key is to move that weight OFF of that inside shoulder, onto the outside shoulder so that they can then bend around the circle and lighten that inside shoulder.

When a horse leans in on a circle, their weight is thrown onto that inside shoulder. It's like a stiff bicycle that can't bend when turning, so you have to lean while turning, or fall.

When the horse leans in, you will end up leaning in, too. This adds YOUR weight onto that inside shoulder, too, making it even harder for the horse to lighten the inside shoulder.

With a horse that leans badly, I start by putting extra weight into the outside stirrup to keep my weight off the inside shoulder. I then use my inside leg at the girth to push the horse onto the outside shoulder. I use some inside rein to slightly flex the horse's head to the inside (if you do this with the weight on the inside shoulder, it will make matters worse.). I push the horse onto the outside shoulder and keep the outside rein firm, but soft and mobile so that the horse can move into it and use it for balance. The inside rein needs to maintain that flexion.

Once the horse is bending, I will still keep much of my weight in the outside stirrup to help the horse learn to stay on the outside shoulder (this will decrease when the horse learns to bend properly). I will then ask for canter mostly with the inside rein at the girth. The outside leg behind the girth is simply to keep the haunch from moving to the outside. It should not be pressing hard or trying to drive the horse forward. It should just rest behind the girth and only press if the horse moves its haunch out.

This was long and hard to read, I bet. But, I hope it adds a little insight and helps.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> do you mean she takes or doesn't take the right lead , or the "correct" lead?
> 
> I mean, is this a matter of her wanting to canter on the left lead only?
> 
> ...


Sorry, I should have said "correct" lead. She doesn't take either one correctly. Almost every time I ask, no matter which direction we're going, she picks up the correct one for a couple steps and then switches to the wrong lead. Or she just takes the wrong one right from the start.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Allison Finch said:


> I recommend NOT doing this. You will be counterflexing your horse and will make the problem of doing it incorrectly worse. This used to be done a lot, back in the day. Now, people try to address what is likely causing this problem, instead.
> 
> I suspect the problem is that your horse is "right handed" like most horses are. That's right, horses are either right or left "handed" just like people.
> 
> ...


I believe my instructor was trying to help me do what you're suggesting - moving the horse's weight to the outside shoulder. When going to the right, he had me lay the right rein against her neck and draw the left rein out a bit. Either I wasn't doing it well or it just didn't work at all, hence my post.

I think I was probably off balance. When I'm in 2-point, she's better. So my weight and where I'm holding it is definitely a factor.

Maybe I should get a video. I'll try today.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Well, now that I understand your original post, it may point to a different matter.

A horse that picks up the correct lead (even if it is seldom done) and then SWITCHES to the incorrect lead may be an altogether different problem. It could still be a major bending problem, but it could also now be a chiropractic problem.

A few horses that I have seen do this, regardless of the bend and balance issues, have been shown to have spinal soreness problems. I would get a thorough check by a reputable chiro (lots of quacks out there) to evaluate actual spinal soreness.

Then, if cleared, go back to the actual bending and suppleness issues.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ecasey said:


> Sorry, I should have said "correct" lead. She doesn't take either one correctly. Almost every time I ask, no matter which direction we're going, she picks up the correct one for a couple steps and then switches to the wrong lead. Or she just takes the wrong one right from the start.


This information presents a different understanding of the situation. It is very unusual for a horse to take both leads incorrectly.

When you say that your horse picks up the correct lead and, then, switches to the incorrect lead, are you asking for the lead in the corner of an arena? This will often influence the horse to take the correct lead. Then, if you are positioned incorrectly, the horse might very well change leads.

How does the horse canter when asked to canter on a straight line? Does it drift to one side or turn? Is the horse's body straight or are the haunches bent to the side of the leading leg? What is the horse doing with its head?

How is your trainer telling you to sit and cue?


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I mentioned in the OP that she does not have chiro problems. The osteo has been out twice, the latest time two weeks ago, and gave her a 100% clean bill of health for her back, neck, legs, etc. So it's not a back issue. Ditto on the saddle issue. This is not about pain. It's about me being an inexperienced rider.

Also, I mentioned when she's with experienced riders, she's waaaay better at picking up the correct lead. This is definitely something I'm doing wrong.

I am asking for the lead in the corner of the arena. I ask just as we are heading into the corner, each time. She leaps up to take the correct lead really quickly after i ask, starts for two steps in the correct lead, and then drops to a trot for a second and picks up the wrong lead and continues on with the wrong lead.

She can take every other corner in this giant square arena on the wrong lead and I don't even notice. I have to have someone tell me when she's on the wrong lead. During my lesson, I had to drop her to a trot after every corner to try to grab the correct lead again. It was very stressful for both of us.

Being new, it's very difficult for me to see her front feet coming forward, so I need someone to tell me if we're on the correct lead or not. Every once in a while I can see her shoulder coming forward, but I'm trying so hard to maintain my balance and everything else, it's difficult to do. Probably most of you experienced folks don't remember what that's like!  I"m certainly looking forward to the day when it's easy (or even just easier)


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

TXhorseman said:


> This information presents a different understanding of the situation. It is very unusual for a horse to take both leads incorrectly.
> 
> When you say that your horse picks up the correct lead and, then, switches to the incorrect lead, are you asking for the lead in the corner of an arena? This will often influence the horse to take the correct lead. Then, if you are positioned incorrectly, the horse might very well change leads.
> 
> ...


She canters straight in a straight line down each of the square arena's sides. Last lesson when we weren't focusing on getting the correct lead, we worked on slowing down the canter and speeding it up and we did that just fine.

The worst part in all this is, after I screw things up a couple times (starting stopping re starting trying to get the correct lead), she gets stressed and goes faster and faster. When that happens, on the other corners, we end up corning like a frigging racing cycle sometimes, with her leaning way over and my leg coming very close to the rails. It's hair-raisingly scary. When we get the correct lead and can just go around, she's much more relaxed and doesn't try to race away from me.

I mentioned in the OP how my instructor tells me to cue (we've tried a whole lot of ways.) As far as how to sit, he hasn't said anything about that other than to be balanced and in the corners to be sure not to lean in but to stay straight over the horse. I can tell you that is very difficult to do when she's cornering like a motor cycle.

*Thanks to everyone helping me. I want you to know I really appreciate you taking the time to do that!!*


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

At this point, I would suggest you post a video of the problem so that we can help YOU change what you may be doing to create this problem.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ecasey said:


> I mentioned in the OP that she does not have chiro problems. The osteo has been out twice, the latest time two weeks ago, and gave her a 100% clean bill of health for her back, neck, legs, etc. So it's not a back issue. Ditto on the saddle issue. This is not about pain. It's about me being an inexperienced rider.
> 
> Also, I mentioned when she's with experienced riders, she's waaaay better at picking up the correct lead. This is definitely something I'm doing wrong.
> 
> ...


We are all still learning, ecasey. When I see videos of myself riding, I am often more critical than when I correct my students.

Your information about asking for the canter just as you enter the corner explains why the horse tends to take the correct lead initially. So the question remains as to why the horse changes to the incorrect lead and maintains it. Knowing the horse's reactions when moving on a straight line either outside the arena or on the diagonal would be helpful. However, let me address your comments regarding it being hard to maintain your balance.

First, consider if you feel balanced at the walk and at the trot. Your instructor should work on this before asking you to canter. Initially, it may be difficult to honestly assess your balance at a walk since it is easier to sit the walk when out of balance. However, it is worth honest evaluation because this is the best gait in which to first establish balance in movement. While the horse is walking, you have a lower stress level and more time to feel what is happening both with your own body and with your horse.

When riding, you should think: What would happen if my horse magically disappeared? You would want to land on your feet, not or your seat or your face. Think of standing with your feet apart, knees slightly bent, and a horse just happens to be between your legs. Alternately, think of straddling a stool where you have no back to lean against and nothing to hang on to. Your pelvic bone should be vertical, and you should be sitting on your crotch as well as your seat bones. This gives you a broad and stable base of support rather than sitting "on your seat bones" which is like leaning on the back two legs of a chair or sitting solely on you crotch which is both uncomfortable and very unstable.

You head should be balanced above your spine so the bones of your spine can support your weight without muscular tension. Muscular tension inhibits movement and makes riding much more difficult. If you release the tension in the muscles of your torso, these muscles will expand allowing the bones of your spine to aline one atop the other forming their natural shock absorbing curves.

Releasing tension around your pelvis -- including the muscles in the crotch area -- will allow you seat to settle more deeply into the saddle giving you a lower center of gravity and a much more stable seat. Releasing the tension in the muscles around your pelvis and throughout your legs, including your ankles, feet, and toes, will allow gravity to do its job. Imagine that gravity would cause your legs to drop to the ground if they were not attached.

Of course your legs are attached to your body. So, rather than falling to the ground, your legs wrap naturally around your horse's body without tension. The stirrups support the balls of your feet, but gravity pulls your heels lower without you having to "push" them down.

You now have a very low center of gravity. It is almost impossible to fall off. You are like one of those inflatable dolls with sand in the bottom. If external forces push you off balance, you immediately pop back to the upright position without effort. There is no need to hang on to the horse with your legs. There is no need to support your balance with the reins. Your relaxed muscles are free to move and make any necessary adjustments to follow the motion of your horse.

A big bonus of releasing tension in your muscles is that your horse will react by releasing tension in his muscles. His movements will become softer and smoother, making riding much easier.


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ecasey said:


> She canters straight in a straight line down each of the square arena's sides. Last lesson when we weren't focusing on getting the correct lead, we worked on slowing down the canter and speeding it up and we did that just fine.
> 
> The worst part in all this is, after I screw things up a couple times (starting stopping re starting trying to get the correct lead), she gets stressed and goes faster and faster. When that happens, on the other corners, we end up corning like a frigging racing cycle sometimes, with her leaning way over and my leg coming very close to the rails. It's hair-raisingly scary. When we get the correct lead and can just go around, she's much more relaxed and doesn't try to race away from me.
> 
> ...


Thank you for this added information.

When cantering down the sides of the arena, the wall or fence provides the horse psychological support to keep it moving in a straight line. This is usually not helpful in evaluating problems. Cantering away from a wall can prove more helpful in evaluation a horse and rider.

You main problem appears to involve stress. Hopefully, my last post will help with this.

Pushing a rider or a horse too much, increases the stress level and makes riding much more difficult. Trying too hard increases tension in the rider. This, in turn, increases tension in the horse. Difficulties escalate. Many instructors don’t seem to understand this or know how to deal with it. They try their best to deal with the problems they see, but they fail to evaluate the cause. Your instructor should assist you in reducing stress by learning to sit properly and to follow the motion of your horse.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Okay so at my lesson today, my mare wouldn't pick up the RIGHT lead. After I tried about 5 times, my instructor got on her and after trying about 10 times to fix it, she came to the conclusion that my girl needs training by someone more expert than I. She said she would do it or I could use my friend to do it. My instructor was finally able to get her to pick the lead up, but she said it required her to put a lot of contact on with the outside rein, more than should be necessary.

The good news is she was picking up the LEFT lead without too many problems.

She was never this bad before, so I'm blaming myself for not having someone more experienced on her regularly like I was doing before. I used to do it once a week, but with all the lessons I've been doing, there just hasn't been a day to do that. I will remedy this immediately!

I am so glad I put this thread up. It's really helped me learn how I should deal with the problem, which I think will really show when my mare gets some training on a better rider.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

@TXhorseman : Thanks so much for that detailed post about relaxing and the seat bones and so on. I never could quite figure out what people were talking about when they said seat bones, and I noticed when I sit the way you describe, I feel better in the saddle, but often I'm told to lean way back and then I don't feel so balanced anymore. This will really help me!


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

ecasey said:


> @TXhorseman : Thanks so much for that detailed post about relaxing and the seat bones and so on. I never could quite figure out what people were talking about when they said seat bones, and I noticed when I sit the way you describe, I feel better in the saddle, but often I'm told to lean way back and then I don't feel so balanced anymore. This will really help me!


You're very welcome, ecasey. I'm happy I could help.


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## Golden Pony Collector (Aug 15, 2014)

Do number 6 and then just kick or use crop or spurs (if you ride with them) and keep her moving forward
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have a little different approach to teaching a novice rider how to start getting correct lead departures. I just let riders push horses into a canter/lope any way they can. I teach them to learn to sit quietly and balanced and teach them that I will only let them work on lead departures and go to the next level of horsemanship AFTER they have learned to recognize what lead they are in the very first stride the horse takes. I want their goal to be to recognize what lead a horse is 'going' to take before they even take that first stride.

I have come to firmly believe that this is so basic to teaching both horse and rider what is acceptable, that this must be a goal of the rider and must be achieved before I go there with them. This not only teaches a rider to recognize a lead by 'feel', it goes very far in helping a rider develop 'feel' in general. Every successful professional will tell you that good 'timing and feel' are required for all good training and riding results. The sooner a rider develops good feel, starting with the ability to feel (not look over the horse's shoulder), the better ALL of their horsemanship will progress.

By the time a horse has taken 2 or 3 strides in a wrong lead, he has been allowed to take that lead long enough for it to be perceived as 'accepted' in his short-term thinking. Ask for a right lead and let a horse take a left lead for 3 strides and you have successfully taught him to take the left lead from that set of cues. When this happens over and over, horses get so obnoxious about a lead departure and get so sick of being pulled up AFTER the lead has been accepted (in their minds) that I just do not go there until a rider can tell me on stride '1' what lead their horse is in. I refuse to stand on the sideline screaming "NO!" or "Wrong" or "???!" 

It seems that most horses do not get really fouled up on leads and lead departures until they are repeatedly pulled up late and started over and over and over. Then, they take a mind-set of refusing a lead.

I think that the sooner a rider learns to 'feel' what foot is on the ground (starting at a walk) and learns to 'feel' where a horse's hind end is tracking, they will be able to do everything else much better. So, for me, learning to 'feel' a lead is this basic and a requirement.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Cherie, I think this is exactly what my horse needs, unfortunately, I'm not at the point where I can tell when she's on the wrong lead so quickly. So I've had a friend working with her, and I hear she's improving. I'm out of town so I can't see it for myself yet.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Your training program is better served by not even designating a lead when are are going to let them travel in the wrong one for several strides. When you get back to riding, work on 'feeling' the lead she is in, feeling what foot is on the ground at a walk and feeling what diagonal you are on without looking. Be goal oriented and your riding will advance farther and faster than you ever imagined. The longer you rely on people telling you what lead you are on or what diagonal you are on or the longer you have to lean over and look at her feet, the longer it will take you to develop 'feel'.

Also learn 'normal' horse behavior. Where you ask for a lead departure determines what green or less-than-well-trained horses give you. When teaching a green horse lead departures, I always start asking at the place in an arena or field that is farthest away from where the horse would rather be. The far corner of an arena opposite the gate or the barn or other horses is where most horses will take the lead toward the gate. So, make that the lead you ask for.

Once the horse learns the lead departure with some degree of form, I start asking for simple changes through a serpentine, asking as the horse approaches the turn. 

When a horse gets this correct most of the time (where I have to do very few 're-starts' -- which have to come instantly on the first stride the horse takes in the wrong lead), I gradually teach them to pick up a canter on the side of the field nearest the barn or near the gate. 

Teach them to continue straight after lead departures and do not let them acquire the bad habit of 'diving off' on a lead departure. Then, I start doing simple changes on a straight line down the center of the arena or field. I start asking for a counter canter and reverse bend at the canter. 

This is all a gradual progression that starts with asking for the canter in an inside lead in the easiest place there is for the horse to get it right.

I firmly but gently 'pull the horse up' (never jerk or punish) the very first stride as they are starting to take it if they are taking the wrong lead. Then I immediately re-ask for the canter departure. If this has put us in the wrong part of the arena, then, I will double the horse back away from the gate to the place I first asked for the departure. As soon as the horse gets it right, I canter for several small and big circles until I am sure the horse is comfortable in the lead. 

Never stop and praise a horse for getting the right lead. If you do, you have completely un-done all of the progress you have made.


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## ManeEquinessence (Feb 11, 2014)

This is one of the biggest things that I have to work on as well. I easily can instruct people how to get my mare to get her left lead better than I do it personally. I have to remember to sit straight and centered and not overthink it.


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