# Holding the Saddle horn



## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

I'm not going to criticize you for not knowing what you're doing, but you really need to get help. I'm sorry to say that if you aren't stable enough with your riding to trot/canter without holding the saddle's horn, then you should not be training a green horse. You either need to get this horse into a serious training program while taking lessons yourself on a trained horse that does not buck or bolt, or sell this horse to someone that has the skills to train him and find a horse more suitable to your skill level. 

This isn't me reflecting poorly on your abilities, but the fact of the matter is that you need a horse that you can learn on, and your horse needs a trainer that can work through his issues. They have a saying "Green on green= black on blue"- you need a steady, trained horse so that you can work on developing your seat and hands without worrying about what kind of shenanigans your horse might pull!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

i completely agree.


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

Like I said, I am getting help from a few different trainers. I ride her almost every other day and i'm confident in my riding abilities. I just cant seem to find a good seat in my trot/canter. I used to be able to post a trot very well but now that I'm riding her in the arena I'm expecting her to buck or bolt. It might be my new saddle and im just not comfortable in it yet. I would never ever consider selling her. She is my first horse and I've got her when she was a little under 2. I'm the only person who has ever worked with her or ridden her. I have been training animals all my life and I know what I'm doing. I cant put her in a serious training program as I don't have the money and she is only 2 and a half. The lady who owns the place where I bored is helping me train her as well as helping me with my riding skills. I really just want to learn how to sit the trot/canter.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Little Red said:


> Like I said, I am getting help from a few different trainers. I ride her almost every other day and i'm confident in my riding abilities. I just cant seem to find a good seat in my trot/canter. I used to be able to post a trot very well but now that I'm riding her in the arena I'm expecting her to buck or bolt. It might be my new saddle and im just not comfortable in it yet. I would never ever consider selling her. She is my first horse and I've got her when she was a little under 2. I'm the only person who has ever worked with her or ridden her. I have been training animals all my life and I know what I'm doing. I cant put her in a serious training program as I don't have the money and she is only 2 and a half. The lady who owns the place where I bored is helping me train her as well as helping me with my riding skills. I really just want to learn how to sit the trot/canter.


To learn to sit the trot/canter you need to take lessons on a different horse. You aren't confident in your horse, and that will affect your riding. Being around animals your whole life and training animals is MUCH different from breaking and training a horse. Horses are different from dogs, and fine tuning a broke horse is different from training and breaking a green horse from the ground up. You need to work on your seat with a trainer on a different horse. You're nervous about what your horse may do, and you can't focus on your own riding.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

DuckDodgers has said it all so well.

Look I am over 50, have ridden off and on all my life, and I am a pretty good rider. I bought a great huge 9 year old horse that had just been broke, and it was a D I S A S T E R, like you I was nervous of him, and I ended up in hospital, badly hurt.

Was it his fault?

NOPE

It was mine, he needed someone with confidence to help him become the horse I know he can be, and I just hope that his new owner can undo the damage I did. I also help that I heal fully in mind and body to be able to enjoy the horse I should have bought in the first place, a Steady Eddy, BTDT horse who is very forgiving of me.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the horse has big holes in his training at this point, and cantering him out in the big arena might be asking for trouble. if you cannot do your training work at a walk (my recommendation), then at least do trot work in a round pen, where he cannot get up to real speed. if he gets to bucking as his normal response, then you are basically "training" him to be a bucker.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm not an expert by any means, but isn't 2 1/2 a little young to be riding her this often?

Horses usually run faster with more energy in a larger space. Maybe you can try riding her in a smaller riding ring. I ride in a small ring most of the time for my lessons, but when we go into the arena, the horse goes twice as fast at the trot. It's like he's on speed or something.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with grabbing that horn when you're learning. If you practice enough, you'll find your seat and not need the horn anymore. But I think it _can_ become a crutch, so you have to force yourself not to grab it as much as you can. Make it a contest with yourself. Go 5 strides not holding, then 10 strides, then 15 ... until you can go all the way around without holding.

For me, the only way to totally gain my seat in a gait is to not be holding on, but I'm never comfortable doing that with a new gait right off the bat. It's a series of steps beginning with crutches like holding on and then gradually letting go of them.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh, and be sure you're wearing a helmet.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

I agree with everything everyone else has said, but I just want to add, if you're going to hang onto something hang onto the back of the saddle (cantle right) grabbing the horn throws your weight forward, and you end up even more off balance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

If your balance is such that you still need to hold on, you really should NOT have confidence in your riding.

The best thing for you and your horse is for the horse to be ridden only by a skilled rider for a while and for you to take lessons on a trained horse. As a beginner there's going to be a lot of things you're going to miss because you don't know what to feel for. This will, over time, instill a lot of bad habits in the horse - some of which that may end up dangerous. You will have a very hard time learning how to be a good rider like that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

Before I ever started riding her in the arena we did a lot of riding in a round pen. I mean we spent a lot of time in that round pen before I worked up the courage to go in the arena. Sorry for making it sound like she bucks more than she really does. She really just bolts now. I can stop her very easily because I can feel when she is about to bolt. We do a lot of walk work. Today we did the pole pattern at a walk and she did good. I would ride in the round pen but its a foot deep in mud and I don't want her to hurt herself so I can really only ride in the arena right now.


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

I have confidence in my riding. Its really not bad, there are just sometimes when she bolts I need to hold on. I am very lucky to have a horse and could never afford lessons. This horse was given to me and so I took on the challenge.


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

Don't worry. I'm not doing barrels on her or anything.  I don't weigh much and I don't ride her hard. Plus I got the ok from a vet to start riding her. Thank you for your advice. I will definitely try that. Some people just don't understand that this really is my passion. I don't play any sports and my only friends live in my neighborhood. This is all I do. Horse training is what I want to do in the future. My horse is everything to me. I would NEVER consider selling her. Where I got her from she was half starved and 2 other horses had died there. I don't want to have someone else train her for me because number 1, I don't have the money, and number 2, this is what I want to do. What other teen is lucky enough to have the opportunity to get a jumpstart on their future this early? Sorry If you just read all that. Thank you for the advice.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

It's truly great that you love your horse, and you are indeed lucky to have one, but you could very easily be hurt. If you cannot trot and canter without it being like second nature, you probably shouldn't be riding a two year old. It's very dangerous. Bucking and bolting are bad habits, that you need to find someone more experienced than you to deal with. For your good and your horses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Since your horse is young she may be having balance issues when you canter. This can frighten a youngster. When you hold the horn you are creating a stiff arm and back. If you need the extra security, run a small strap around the gullet hole leaving just enough room for your fingers. This will help keep your arm relaxed and will hold you in the saddle better during a buck. Grabbing the horn pulls your forward, the strap redirects your weight downward. Google bucking strap or night latch.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Little Red said:


> I have confidence in my riding. Its really not bad





Little Red said:


> I don't feel secure in the saddle at a trot or canter. I guess what I'm asking is how do I sit the trot and just feel more secure? Please keep in mind that I'm 15 and I taught myself how to ride so please don't criticize me for not knowing what to do. Thanks!


From your first post to your last post I see a disconnect. If you don't know how to sit the trot you're not ready for much of what you're trying to do.

I agree with others, you are going about this the entirely wrong way and the outcome will not likely be positive in a variety of ways - you might *very likely* end up getting hurt, and you are *very unlikely* actually training your horse in any meaningful fashion.

I was a mostly self taught rider myself from my youth, as you also mention you are. I had NO IDEA how bad of a rider I was until I started taking formal lessons many, many years later. It soon became evident to me that I was not the "decent" rider I thought I was, but I was actually a wreck when held to proper riding standards. I could WTC, sure, but my body position was way off, I didn't fully understand all the proper cues, I was hard on my horses mouth because I didn't understand proper contact, etc etc etc...just to start. Should I have been training a horse under those circumstances, not only being an amateurish/poor rider to begin with (but not realizing it), but also not having much of a clue at all about training to begin with except for what I might have read from a book or seen in a YouTube video?

*HECK NO.*

Honestly, seek help from a professional. If you can afford to own a horse you should be able to afford to somehow seek the guidance of a professional before things go bad. If money really is a stumbling block, seek out a professional and explain your situation - ask if you can work at their barn mucking stalls or whatever is necessary to work off the assistance they'll give you. The best part is that after you're done working you can watch them. Spend hours just sitting and observing - I've learned a TON over the years just quietly observing lessons and training. It's still no substitute for the real thing, but you can (and likely will) soon start to realize your own flaws.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

I fear that by being resistant to the idea of going back to the basics and taking lessons on a different horse, and letting a more experienced rider ride yours, you are likely setting yourself up for a bad situation. Becoming a horse trainer does not happen overnight when you buy your first green horse. It takes years of practice, a ton of horses, and quite a few lessons. "Free" horses with issues are fairly common nowadays. A friend of mine got a free tb gelding, and he turned out to have a chronic bucking problem. Saddle fit was checked, vets and farriers were consulted, this was just a bucker. Not every ride, but when he did it was buck your butt off bucks. This girl is an experienced rider and jumper, but realized that she was in over head and took another path into a horse training world. She gave that gelding to the barn manager and he is happy as a clam not being ridden. 

Take a step back and look at the situation. I've seen many horses that develop into monsters with dangerous habits because of a poorly matched, though very well meaning owner. Instability at the trot is not something to instill confidence, and I would NEVER send my horse to a trainer that needs to hold onto the horn. You've got a ways to go, and working with another horse will get you there faster and more safely than anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

Honestly, it's all been said. You should be able to stick it to that saddle in any situation at any gait before trying to take on training a very green broke horse. I know you think this is a dream come true, but in reality you won't learn much except what the arena ground feels like and that you should have gone about this the opposite way in which you currently are. There's a reason people take lessons and buy older dead broke horses for their first horse. 

If you must keep her, put this horse away to pasture and go lease out one that you can work your riding abilities on without fear of having to e-stop because they bolt off on you. I'm extremely passionate about this because I have seen all too many girls in your situation and the subject hits close to home. (None of them are horse trainers now either and one quite injured from a bad accident on a green horse.)

But as for your original question: sitting the trot comes from a strong core and a soft back. Think about your abs having the workout of a lifetime and your thighs staying relaxed and draped over the saddle unless you need to make an adjustment and half halt the horse (or shut her down in a bolting situation). Canter should feel like your backside is stroking the saddle (apologies for the weird analogy) and again, it's really your core that is doing the work and balancing while your upper body and lower legs stay quiet and in position. 

The easiest way to get a solid seat at T and C is just put hundreds of rides on horses and work on it- eventually it will become muscle memory and second nature but it just comes with time alone. 

Good luck, I really do wish you the best and hope you will take into consideration what's been mentioned. We've all been 15, so we know what is going on in the mind of a horse crazy teen, which is why we keep repeating the same posts. Please read them all carefully and stay safe!


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## littrella (Aug 28, 2010)

Everyone has giving you some good advice. I'll just share something that my instructor has me do. When I get nervous, I would also grab for the saddle horn. To get me to quit doing this, she tells be to grab the seam on the outside leg of my jeans. Somehow, my brain tells me I'm still holding onto something & it worked for me


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

I am also 15 and somewhat taught myself. What I didn't learn on my own I learned from my mom and the internet and watching horse instructional movies! 
One thing that it was with me, was I didn't have enough confidence. It's normal. All you have to do is take a leap of faith and let go. I would look at some videos on how to post - once I learned how to post sitting the trot actually came easier to me. When I started posting I still held on, but gradually day by day I hung on less and less and now I don't need to at all.
Same with loping. Just leg go and trust your horse. 

One I was taught - and I tested and found was true - is when you hold on to the horn, you are relying on that to get your balance. When you hold onto the horn the rest of your body kinda goes mleh, because your body thinks it doesn't need to work to help get balance because holding onto the horn can give you a different posture and the way you sit and ride.
It may feel easy to hold on and ride now, but once your body gets used to helping gain your balance then riding without holding on is actually easier.

When I first started riding again in 2011, I was terrified to trot because I thought I was going to fall off. Well, all that time I was holding onto the horn also. I didn't know how to post then, but even just bouncing around in the saddle without holding on it was easier than holding on.
It just takes time and practice.
Good luck!!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Unfortunately, you're not really getting a jump start on your desired profession. Without instruction to show you how to properly work with a young horse, you're regressing in your methods and picking up bad habits along the way. 

Does this horse flex from the ground without moving his feet? Move his haunches and shoulders from the ground and under saddle? Work in w/t/c with bend throughout his body? Have a solid Whoa without touching the reins? Leg yield at at least the walk? 

With you not secure in your own position, how do you expect to teach this horse? How can you give with your hands and follow your horae'a mouth when you're holding the saddle horn?

Trainers are not made by throwing them on a young horse and hoping all goes well. To be successful, you need guidance. If you really want to do this for your living eventually, do whatever it takes to work and learn under a mentor. Sell the horse if that's what it takes. 

Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

amberly said:


> I am also 15 and somewhat taught myself. What I didn't learn on my own I learned from my mom and the internet and watching horse instructional movies!
> One thing that it was with me, was I didn't have enough confidence. It's normal. All you have to do is take a leap of faith and let go. I would look at some videos on how to post - once I learned how to post sitting the trot actually came easier to me. When I started posting I still held on, but gradually day by day I hung on less and less and now I don't need to at all.
> *Same with loping. Just leg go and trust your horse. *
> 
> ...


This is the issue that I see. If you are an insecure rider, you need a horse that you CAN trust. Someone that will keep going along at a steady pace even if their rider loses balanced and gets nervous. If you can't trust that the horse won't buck or bolt, then just letting go could result in the rider hitting the ground. I think that your advice would be really sound IF the rider had a trustworthy mount...


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

I just want everybody to know that I did go riding today. A lot of you are telling me that I need to learn to post. I know how to post. What I don't know how to do is sit the trot. I tried today but I just couldn't seem to get it. I will keep trying. As for the people trying to discourage me from training her, I'm getting help for the women who owns the stables. She has trained all of her horses and believes I am doing a very good job with my mare. As for the people telling me that I need to take lessons, the lady who owns the stables is also helping me with my riding skills. Today when I went riding I did not hold on to the saddle horn at all. Except for when I took her to a lope and she started bucking.  I took lessons when I was little and I was recently getting some lessons from another person who breaks horses. I know leg cues and commands. Im not training this horse alone. I have help from professionals. I know how to work a horse and she knows how to flex, whoa, move her haunches. Training is not my problem. I was just asking how to get a better seat when trotting and loping.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I agree with most of the advice given. This does not sound like a good idea.

However, since it seems unlikely that you will listen to that advice, I suggest looking up Larry Trocha on Youtube. I also found this video on cantering very helpful, both for cantering and for sitting a trot:






However, if nothing else - my horses seem to dump about 50% of their brain each time we shift up to a faster gait. So I would do ALL my work at a walk, including turns & stops. Teach neck reining at a walk.

When your horse is about 90%, try short trots. No cantering, just trotting. You won't help your horse or yourself by cantering before your horse starts, stops, turns, does a round circle (not 6 straight lines connected to form a circle), etc at a trot. Sitting the trot feels very different from cantering, but the balance and motions have a lot in common. My horse would buck at a canter if I bounced on her!

In training a horse, laying a good foundation will save a lot of grief later on. The same applies to learning to ride. I learned that the hard way, and I've got a feeling you will learn it the hard way too...:?

But the best bet is to give the horse more time to grow while you get better at riding on a different horse! Spend the next 6 months riding different horses, and getting this one happy with being led, grooming, some round pen work, etc.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

bsms said:


> my horses seem to dump about 50% of their brain each time we shift up to a faster gait.


Mine too, I was reminded of that today when my boy decided he'd rather canter in the 4 foot deep snowdrifts on the side of the road vs the nice clean road. :? Suffice to say I maintained a lot more bit contact for the remainder of the ride.

Sorry for the thread derail, but it's a good point, backed up by many I'm sure.


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

bsms said:


> I agree with most of the advice given. This does not sound like a good idea.
> 
> However, since it seems unlikely that you will listen to that advice, I suggest looking up Larry Trocha on Youtube. I also found this video on cantering very helpful, both for cantering and for sitting a trot:
> 
> ...


Thank you for the video. It was very helpful. Its not that I don't want to listen to their advice its just some of the advice (putting her in a training program, selling her, taking riding lessons, paying someone to come train her) is not possible for me. I don't have money. The only reason I have this horse is because she was given to me for free. I never dreamed I would be lucky enough to have a horse. She leads like a dream. When I groom her I bring her to a big round pen and let her loose. She comes right to me and stands still for a good 10 to 30 minutes while I go all around her brushing a combing. She loves it! Before I even thought about getting on her we did months of ground work in the round pen. Then when I started riding her we still stayed in the round pen for a few more months. And like I said before, I have professional help for me and for her. I just came on here to find other peoples tips on trotting and loping.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

If you have good professional help he/she should have no problem teaching you hot to sit the trot properly. That will help you with sitting the canter, obviously.

You shouldn't be doing the learning on the horse you are trying to train.

Honestly, we're going to go in circles, but in the end, until you learn to ride properly yourself (and until you can WTC safely and securely, you're not ready) you shouldn't be training a horse. 

I hate to be blunt, but it seems necessary.


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

PrivatePilot said:


> If you have good professional help he/she should have no problem teaching you hot to sit the trot properly. That will help you with sitting the canter, obviously.
> 
> You shouldn't be doing the learning on the horse you are trying to train.
> 
> ...


My help is awesome the only problem is that she is not always there to help me. As for learning on the horse I am training, I don't have a choice. This is my only chance to have a horse and learn how to ride so I really need to make the best of it. I came on her hoping for someone to understand and help me. And don't feel bad about being blunt. I understand what you are trying to tell me but this is the only chance I have to do what I love.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Well, as long as you are doing what you love and enjoy riding your horse, search Youtube for more videos to help you. Personally, I would not be loving or enjoying anything like that, I would send my horse to a trainer and get lessons myself, horses require too much money and work to have me hanging on to a horn and being bucked.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

I appreciate you trying your best to do what you love, but I think what many of us here are trying to get across to you is this:

1/ You will very likely end up getting hurt.

2/ You will very likely end up with a horse that is never going to be what you want and need since the fundamentals of training aren't there.  A year or two from now you'll be here posting questions about why your horse is still a miscreant.

Neither of these outcomes will result in you continuing to be able to "do what you love" in the long run.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

privatepilot said:


> i appreciate you trying your best to do what you love, but i think what many of us here are trying to get across to you is this:
> 
> 1/ you will very likely end up getting hurt.
> 
> ...



yes yes yes.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

If you can only afford the horse because she was free and cannot afford to put any training into her, then what will you do when (more likely than if) an expensive vet bill arises? Remember what they say- there is no such thing as a free horse. A friend got one for free a couple of years ago, and he is off for a few months because of a fungal infection in the eye that has already cost a couple of thousand dollars... I just recently watched a mare wither away and die because her owner wouldn't pay to have the vet out when she started dropping weight. Please be careful- I've seen many sad situations occur because folks couldn't pay the vet bills on their "free" horses!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

PrivatePilot said:


> I appreciate you trying your best to do what you love, but I think what many of us here are trying to get across to you is this:
> 
> 1/ You will very likely end up getting hurt.
> 
> ...


What you don't understand (I hope that didn't sound rude) is that the training fundamentals are there. This post was never about training my horse. This was about sitting the trot and canter. I do not need advice on training my horse. I have professional help from several people who have broken in many horses. I thank you for your concern but I have the training all under control. I simply came on here asking for advice on bettering my seat at trot and canter.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

Little Red said:


> What you don't understand (I hope that didn't sound rude) is that the training fundamentals are there. This post was never about training my horse. This was about sitting the trot and canter. I do not need advice on training my horse. I have professional help from several people who have broken in many horses. I thank you for your concern but I have the training all under control. I simply came on here asking for advice on bettering my seat at trot and canter.


No worries on the wording.  

But in that case, I'm left just repeating my earlier response.



PrivatePilot said:


> If you have good professional help he/she should have no problem teaching you hot to sit the trot properly. That will help you with sitting the canter, obviously.
> 
> You shouldn't be doing the learning on the horse you are trying to train


Good luck. I think I've said about all I can meaningfully say in this thread.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

so,You don't need training advice??
The problem being your inability to properly sit the trot & canter IS effecting her training:shock: She bolts & bucks when asked to canter,most likely from you unable to cue & sit her properly. You may have trained her up to this point but you are going to quickly undo any good &/or ingrain those bad behaviors:wink:


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

DuckDodgers said:


> If you can only afford the horse because she was free and cannot afford to put any training into her, then what will you do when (more likely than if) an expensive vet bill arises? Remember what they say- there is no such thing as a free horse. A friend got one for free a couple of years ago, and he is off for a few months because of a fungal infection in the eye that has already cost a couple of thousand dollars... I just recently watched a mare wither away and die because her owner wouldn't pay to have the vet out when she started dropping weight. Please be careful- I've seen many sad situations occur because folks couldn't pay the vet bills on their "free" horses!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I appreciate your concern but when I say I can not afford to pay for lessons or have someone else train her I mean I cant ,personally, as a 15 year old, pay for those things. My parents will help me if an expensive vet bill comes along. But if I wanted lessons or pay someone else to train her I would have to come up with that money myself. I cant tell you how many times I have tried to get a job so I could pay for those things. But it just doesn't seem to be happening for me. Where I got her from I watched the same thing happen with a horse and a mini. It burnt me up inside to watch someone neglect their horses that way. I couldn't believe it when I went to go visit my new horse and Geronimo was missing from the small pen he was kept in. When I asked where he was I was told "nobody told you?" I was heart broken. I was the only one who cared about them. Then one day my mom noticed a mini was missing from its small pasture. When I found him he was laying in a pile of moldy hay, dying. I picked him up and gave him a little water and a little food. When we called the owner and told him what we found he replied with "are you sure he wasn't just resting?" I was so mad. We went every day to visit him to make sure that he was ok. I named him Scout and told my mom that I was going to steal him. But the next time we went we found him laying down again but this time when I picked him up I found that the side he was laying on had started to rot. He was literally rotting. He died the next day. That was when we couldn't take it any more and started boarding my horse at stables where me and her are learning a lot. I have learned a lot and we have both come a long way. I don't need any of you trying to make me feel like I cant to it. Like its impossible. One day I hope to prove everyone who ever told me I couldn't do it, wrong. So please don't discourage me from doing this.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Little Red said:


> I don't need any of you trying to make me feel like I cant to it. Like its impossible. One day I hope to prove everyone who ever told me I couldn't do it, wrong. So please don't discourage me from doing this.


What you don't understand is that no one is trying to rain on your parade just to pee you off, we are showing concern over you and your horse. But hey, like most youngsters you know best, so have at. I will stick to what I said before, I really really hope that you don't ruin him, and that he doesn't hurt you. 

IT IS NEVER a good idea to be trying to teach a horse while you are learning, but hey, it's your life and health. There is more than one sort of suffering in the horse world, and a badly started horse can have a rotten life.

Good luck, hope it works for you, and more importantly him.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Ok.

One thing that helps if you need something to hang onto is a bucking strap. Or, a 'night latch". Would work better than the horn for security.


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> What you don't understand is that no one is trying to rain on your parade just to pee you off, we are showing concern over you and your horse. But hey, like most youngsters you know best, so have at. I will stick to what I said before, I really really hope that you don't ruin him, and that he doesn't hurt you.
> 
> IT IS NEVER a good idea to be trying to teach a horse while you are learning, but hey, it's your life and health. There is more than one sort of suffering in the horse world, and a badly started horse can have a rotten life.
> 
> Good luck, hope it works for you, and more importantly him.



1. I'm not just any "youngster"
2. I don't remember ever saying I know best. I know I don't know best. I know there is so much I don't know. But I want to learn.
3. I would never ruin HER or give her a rotten life. I have professional help. I just contacted someone about riding lessons.
4. This is a place where I should be able to get encouraging advice not be told that im ruining my horse or that I cant do it.
I have never felt more discouraged in my entire life. All I wanted was advice on how to sit the trot and canter. Thanks for your "concern".


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

tinyliny said:


> Ok.
> 
> One thing that helps if you need something to hang onto is a bucking strap. Or, a 'night latch". Would work better than the horn for security.


Thank you. I will look into them.


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## Dehda01 (Jul 25, 2013)

Can you ride any other horses to try to work on your trot and canter without worrying about your youngster? I would see if any of your trainer friends would let you ride their better broke horses to really practice this winter. Let the baby grow up some more physically and mentally, and see where she is next spring. By then you should have a better set of legs and seat.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I guess I'm not going to add much of anything new to the conversation that hasn't already been said, but let's take this scenario. 

You said it boils your blood when you see horses who are mistreated, like the mini you told us about. 

Do you know what boils my blood? When I see a rider (of any age) riding a 2-year-old filly who is hanging on the saddle horn, bouncing all over the place, inadvertantly putting pressure on the reins to hang on, and confusing/irritating the horse to death in the process.

Or a rider who kicks, whips, and spurs their horse to make them do what they want. That boils my blood.

Or someone running a barrel horse over, and over, and souring them on the pattern and making them crazy. That boils my blood. 

As GoldenHorse said, there are many forms and levels of "abuse".

I don't think anyone is saying you can't do what you are trying to do, so there's no need to prove anyone wrong. But what will you do when you get bucked off and break a few ribs? It's absolutely possible that it could happen. 

I would be more concerned with why your horse is bucking and bolting, even if it is infrequent. Yes, a colt is a colt and they are unpredicatable, but you should have some matter of ground work, respect, and trust built for the horse. 

So this professional help you are getting for free from a friend, what do they say about you being able to sit the trot? Are there other "safer" horses that this person has that she would let you ride to work on your basic skills?


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## Little Red (Jul 3, 2013)

Dehda01 said:


> Can you ride any other horses to try to work on your trot and canter without worrying about your youngster? I would see if any of your trainer friends would let you ride their better broke horses to really practice this winter. Let the baby grow up some more physically and mentally, and see where she is next spring. By then you should have a better set of legs and seat.


I just contacted a lady I know and we have made arrangements for some lessons.


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## horselessmom (Apr 20, 2012)

OP, your heart is in the right place, and you seem to have a great bond with your horse. It is awesome that you'll get some lessons. See if you can videotape yourself riding (your horse, or a lesson horse) and post it in the Critique subforum. You'll get lots of feedback this way.

Have you looked into Parelli or Clinton Anderson? There's a lot of what you can do to develop your skills and engage your horse, while you work on your own riding skills. 

Look into Centered Riding. The older editions can be found for just a couple of dollars on abebook.com 

Keep working on conditioning your core muscles as well. 

You are young and determined, and it won't take you long to become balanced on your horse. 

For the record, I do agree with the majority of posters in this thread. I agree that ideally you should be mentored more closely, and ideally you should be riding lesson horses. I think you are already listening to the advice given, even if it seemed harsh--this is great. I just wanted to give you more encouragement for your passion. If you really want it and work hard, things will start falling into places--there will be that mentor, and that horse to ride, and that job opportunity. Reach out to other horse people in your area, talk to horse trainers. The more people you know, and the more they know about your passion, the more help you'll eventually get. 

Good luck with your journey. If you have questions about Parelli, feel free to PM me.


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## bitslilappy (Sep 19, 2013)

First off, thank you for seeking outside help, it really is the most beneficial way to help yourself and your mare. Without seeing first hand everything that has been done with your horse and watching you ride it is very difficult to judge what exactly is going on. I know it can be very discouraging at times reading blunt responses that may not be what your are looking for but please try to remember that the vast majority if not all of the posters replying do so out of concern for your safety and your horses. 

I don't agree with her age or the situation however from reading your descriptions she is acting like a baby, which she is, that needs to be taken back down to the walk until you are more confident at the faster gaits. Based on what you said it seems to me that she is still very off balanced at the trot and canter when you mix that with you being off balanced it would create you slipping around or bumping her back which might be the cause of her bolting/bucking. Another thing I noticed was you stated you got a new saddle and you weren't sure if you needed to get used to it. As a growing baby saddle fit could be questionable. There are so many potential causes for her bolting. Anyways, back to your original question, when I started riding what helped to sit the trot was to count with their stride. Just one two as they took a step. It helped me relax and not tense up and in relaxing it was amazing to be able to feel the tension in my shoulders sink. In relaxing I was able to sit deeper in the saddle and envision my weight flow down my legs helping to dropped my heels to a more correct position. Obviously this will be a lot easier on a steady eddy lesson horse. Another thing one of my old trainers started with when she saw how anxious I would get was she put me on the lounge had me drop the stirrups and reins put my arms out to my side and had me close my eyes. I hope that was somewhat helpful and remember there is infinite amounts of knowledge to be had here and every poster here is just trying to open your eyes to the danger of this situation. The last thing anyone wants is a fellow horse lover being seriously injured when it could be prevented. Stay safe
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Little Red said:


> I have never felt more discouraged in my entire life. All I wanted was advice on how to sit the trot and canter. Thanks for your "concern".


Enough child.....my concern is 100% genuine, no need for the " "

Did you read my first post where I explained, probably badly WHY I am so concerned, because I am BROKEN in body and spirit for being in exactly the same position that you were explaining in your op.

My horse that I darn near ruined by this kind of scenario



> I started breaking in my own horse with the help of a few trainers. My only problem is that I have started riding her in arena and she bucks and takes off a lot. So every time I take her to a trot I grab the saddle horn (I ride western). I also grab the saddle horn when she canters. I don't feel secure in the saddle at a trot or canter.


Is fortunate that he didn't end up in a killbuyers auction, that is where my husband wanted to send him.

I'm out of here, best of luck to you, but NEVER dismiss genuine concern from one who has actually realized how dangerous a situation you are in from personal experience. As I say we, the older, wiser, broken or fortunate enough to not be broken because they figured it out first, only want you to be safe, and your horse to be safe by being well trained.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Little Red said:


> 1. I'm not just any "youngster"
> 2. I don't remember ever saying I know best. I know I don't know best. I know there is so much I don't know. But I want to learn.
> 3. I would never ruin HER or give her a rotten life. I have professional help. I just contacted someone about riding lessons.
> 4. This is a place where I should be able to get encouraging advice not be told that im ruining my horse or that I cant do it.
> I have never felt more discouraged in my entire life. All I wanted was advice on how to sit the trot and canter. Thanks for your "concern".





Little Red said:


> I appreciate your concern but when I say I can not afford to pay for lessons or have someone else train her I mean I cant ,personally, as a 15 year old, pay for those things. My parents will help me if an expensive vet bill comes along. But if I wanted lessons or pay someone else to train her I would have to come up with that money myself. I cant tell you how many times I have tried to get a job so I could pay for those things. But it just doesn't seem to be happening for me. Where I got her from I watched the same thing happen with a horse and a mini. It burnt me up inside to watch someone neglect their horses that way. I couldn't believe it when I went to go visit my new horse and Geronimo was missing from the small pen he was kept in. When I asked where he was I was told "nobody told you?" I was heart broken. I was the only one who cared about them. Then one day my mom noticed a mini was missing from its small pasture. When I found him he was laying in a pile of moldy hay, dying. I picked him up and gave him a little water and a little food. When we called the owner and told him what we found he replied with "are you sure he wasn't just resting?" I was so mad. We went every day to visit him to make sure that he was ok. I named him Scout and told my mom that I was going to steal him. But the next time we went we found him laying down again but this time when I picked him up I found that the side he was laying on had started to rot. He was literally rotting. He died the next day. That was when we couldn't take it any more and started boarding my horse at stables where me and her are learning a lot. I have learned a lot and we have both come a long way. I don't need any of you trying to make me feel like I cant to it. Like its impossible. One day I hope to prove everyone who ever told me I couldn't do it, wrong. So please don't discourage me from doing this.


For what it's worth, my response would be the same for any rider that "hasn't been riding for very long"- regardless of the rider's age. No need to jump to the defense just because you're young. 

I see where you are coming from with the money issue, though. Too often I see- yes, many times it is younger folks that really CAN'T get a job to support their horse(s)- people who can afford the basic care of the horse. When a health issue arises, there isn't enough money to pay the bills. I am glad that you have your parents on your side in that situation. 

I'm not trying to discourage you, tell you that your horse is bad, that you "can't do it", or that you don't mean well. That said, meaning well and being ambitious won't change an unfavorable situation. You're trying to work with what you can, but if you are committed to working with this horse then I truly believe that you need help. I'm glad to hear that you are signing up for lessons. Don't decide that people are trying to attack you because of your age, or that people aren't concerned about you and the horse. But, I am of the opinion that if you want to go through this, then you need to go about it the right way.


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## BreakableRider (Aug 14, 2013)

I would not be sitting this horses trot at all. She is green and doesn't know how to carry herself properly and of course isn't going to have a good topline because of it. I'm going to make an educated guess that since she's bolting, she's carrying herself pretty darn inverted. A horse trotting around like that would be difficult for anyone to sit, however an experienced rider would know to stay off a young horses back until the proper muscle is developed. 

It is great that you want to work on your sitting trot, but it would be much better for your horse and easier for you to practice on another horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

I am always happy, no not happy...willing, that's it willing to admit when I am wrong, and here I am wrong.

I let my frustration get the better of me, but I now believe that the OP is a little more mature than I gave her credit for. I think she does know that we are trying to help, but is frustrated by our replies. She now does understand why we are worried, and I am sure that she is thinking some of the suggestions made. 

Red, here is a video, this is old fat me riding (for the first time, it was our test ride) The Awesome Mr Gibbs and trying to get him to lope, note we are having issues. 






I had been trying for a while when this video was made, and the reason I was having trouble, was because my brain was saying WHOA, when my body was trying to say GO, so I was giving him mixed messages. Because he is broke to death and naturally lazy, he was happy to ignore the 'go faster' instruction on the theory I didn't mean it. He is the best sort of horse to learn on and to recover any confidence issues with

Poor Ben however, well the week before I had ended up eating that arena dirt, because asking a big green unsure horse to 'GO' while any part of you, especially your hands, are not following through with that request, CAN lead to them having a major melt down and going 'OMG I DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU WANT, I know I'll PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

This is what we (me) are reading into your first post, so this is why I have responded as I did. Honestly and genuinely we all wish you well, both you and your horse.


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