# first time momma for the both of us lots of confusion



## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hello everyone,
I have a 10 year old mare that is finally bred for the first time, so i have no previous foaling records to refer to. Im having some concerns, but i need to list out everything that happened into getting her bred.

I have been trying for a couple of years now to get this mare bred. The first time I took her 4 hours away to a stud that had an amazing blood line and had several awards. The issue there was that the stud was at a trainers and the trainer was the one that hand bred my mare. I was told she was bred and I retrieved her only to ultrasound her at day 16 and find out she was not. I could not afford to send her back up there as there were HUGE costs in delivery, and a 15/day mare care.

So, the following year i sent her to a different stud about two hours away. She was sent there early in the year as i was still learning about breeding and did not know anything about transitional heats. The vet said she was in a transitional heat and she would not catch. Here i only had to pay 3/day mare care since i was supplying the grain, so i left her there until she went into her next heat. She was bred every other day and ultrasounded on day 16... not in foal. So she stayed there until her next heat. Vet said good chance of catching since she had a really nice follicle. Oh, and i did have her cultured before this stud as well and she was clean. Once again, she did not catch. I was starting to get frustrated. It was the following heat that the vet said she caught, but the embryo looked like it had a pop mark in it and she would probably absorb the pregnancy, but seeing as how she was bred i had to bring her back. At day 45 i had her ultrasounded again by MY vet and she said she could not see where she had any pregnancy and she would probably go in heat in the next few days. Well, she did. So I gave up and bought my own stud. 

This was a really nice, well behaved stud and i do have the facilities and the experience to handle him. So, i bred her myself. She was VERY receptive to him. I bred her every day ( i know i didnt need to do it that often, but i was determined to get her bred. I did not have her ultrasounded as i knew she caught. I did have her palpated at i think day 60 and she was bred. 

Now, here is my concern. The last day of her heat cycle was June 1st 2011. So this should put her delivering somewhere around May 8th. Thing is she has been acting very strange the past week. Normally this mare will try to severly hurt another horse over food, but for a few days she just stayed in the back of the field even when the other horses came running up. Also, she has started to develop an udder in the past few days and her vulva has dropped about an inch. Her tail head is still very firm. She has also become VERY affectionate in the past two weeks. Now i was under the impression none of this was supposed to happen until no earlier than 6 weeks before delivery, and its 10 weeks away...

Now i know that some mares will be flirtatious with a stud even though they are bred and that even fewer will let them breed, but given that she did not go back into heat after she was bred to him i could only gather that she was bred to my stud. If and i mean a big IF she had the pregnancy from the other stud it would be day 325.

If she is not bred to the previous stud and is bred to mine (the most likely) that is showing these signs this early a bad sign. She is currently on day 275. My concern is that she might be aborting. Does a mare show these signs when she is aborting? I can see pleanty of foal movement in her belly. I didnt for a few days and then it picked back up real strong, so my concerns went away until this morning when her nipples starting swelling and her vulva dropped. I dont know what to do. I dont want to call the vet as the farm call is $100 and the ultrasound is $140. Thankfully my mare will allow it without sedation because that would be an additional $40. 

PS. this is an ex barrel horse that lost an eye and had to be retired. She was really good at running the barrels and my hopes is to get a good baby off her. She is naturally very high strung even being out in the pasture she will run as fast as she can up and down the neighbooring pasture with the other horses and snort and take off running again. I dont know if this affects anything or not, just thought id throw that in there.


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

I would upload some photos, but i cant quite figure out how.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

upload to photo bucket, then copy the IMG code and paste to your post. its possible the vet missed the foal the last time you had her bred to the other stallion.


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

i am seeing if this works. If it does this is a pic of her teats this morning


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

So if you can't afford a Vet...... how exactly are you planning on paying for all the costs associated with another horse and any complications that may arise during the delivery?


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

this is a pic of her teats this morning. 









this is a pic of her teats 2 hours later. Nevermind the pink, i have to clean inbetween her teats every couple of weeks and i just cleaned them.


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

first, i did not come on here to get chastised... i can afford a vet i am asking for your advise other than call a vet. i have a lot of money already invested in this baby and i am trying to keep from spending on something that i shouldnt be worried about.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

If you want to know if she is still pregnant or not you NEED to call a vet. a vet is the ONLY one who can tel you yes or no. No one on a forum can look at pictures and say definitively whether a horse is pregnant or not unless their are feet on the way out.



http://www.horseforum.com/online-equine-pregnancy-test/


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

Firstly CALL A VET. If you think your mare is aborting the vet should have been called AGES ago. Secondly WHY did you breed your mare if you can't afford to have a vet come to your farm. What if there's an emergency? There are always questionable periods when a mare has been bred, you NEED a vet to take you through it. NOT random people on the internet. This IS AN EMERGENCY. Your mare could be potentially aborting a foal, or something else. Your mare and your potential foals lives are at risk, and you don't want to call a vet -_-


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## xxdanioo (Jan 17, 2012)

I don't think it's a matter of pregnant or not- I think she is trying to determine when she is due/to which breeding. 

A vet would be the best bet, though.


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## Joie (Dec 30, 2011)

If you are breeding, even if you are breeding live cover on your own farm, ALWAYS have the vet ultrasound between 14-18 days to check for twins. Palpating at 60 days can confirm a pregnancy, but it can't determine if it's a singleton or twins. If you can't do the mare and yourself that simple service, then do not breed. 

OP, at this point, she could be aborting, or it could be any number of things, none of which you are going to be able to do anything about without a vet. Call your vet. $140 is a very small sum for the peace of mind, IMO.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Does she have any discharge? If she has discharge call the vet she could have an infection and the placenta could get compromised and she could abort or have a septic foal. Those teats aren't even close yet by those pic's she has a long way to go yet. Pregnant mare go through all kinds of different mood changes some get sweet some get nasty. Some of mine about 4 weeks out will go back up to my studs pen and pee and wink, and he'll get excited, it's hormone changes.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You did not have her scanned after covering her with your own stud - do you not realise that part of the reason for scanning through the early days of pregnancy os to check to see if she is carrying twins?


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

well, the vet came out... she determined there was no cause for concern. And there are no twins, i knew that months ago on the last ultrasound. Stuff happens that can hurt anyones finances and delay things that must be done.

Yall just cant seem to get the point. Apparently no one understood the whole point of the post. I was trying to determine what the posibility was of her being bred to the previous stud and if it was 0 then are the signs that she was showing signs of her going to abort... 

The vet stated that even though she was determined open upon the ultrasound after the previous stud, it is slightly possible that she missed the pregnancy since it was confirmed by the other vet. She stated that although it is highly doubtful, it is possible that she kept the pregnancy from the previous stud. The vet said that she is most likely at least a month away from foaling if not much more, so I just need to watch her closely for signs of impending birth since the delivery date could be anywhere from 1 to 3 1/2 months away. I wont know which stud is my foals sire until it is born. She was not able to determine how far along she was, but she said that from the tests she ran and the exam she did momma is healthy, no placentitis or the other thing she ran a test for. 

So next time before any of you decide to jump down someones throat about not having money to call a vet or not doing what they are supposed to, mabey you should make sure your information is correct first.

Oh, and it was 140 for the ultrasound PLUS 100 for the farm call. I must have not been clear when i listed my figures. Thankfully she did not have to perform an ultrasound, she just palpated her, but my bill was still 310. I am pleanty aware of what might could happen with the foal and the financial responsibility of breeding. I bought a foal from a woman last year when it was a day old only to have it end up with joint ill at two weeks. i spent over $3000 trying to save that foal... i never even got to bring him to my home. so mabey instead of preaching to me what i should have done that cannot be helped now, yall could have just offered any experiences yall have had similar to this or just said nothing.

CMARIE, BLUESPARK, and XXDANIOO- thank you for your help/responses


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Glad your mare and baby are doing ok! My mare should be foaling the same time as yours! We'll have to compare photos then


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

Actually, i was wrong. I just looked at the bill and found out she DID have to ultrasound her. I must have misunderstood. That was why it was so high. My neighboor was here when the vet came out as i had to work, so i didnt know that was how she tested for the placentitis... i just knew that was one of the things she checked for.

GIGEM88- I will def be posting pics! good luck with your delivery


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

If I may give you bit of advice on this foaling, dipping the umbilical cord in iodine, or navasol as soon after birth as possible can help prevent joint ill, also if you can give the mare her spring shots about a month before birth it will also help. And don't let her foal in wood shavings, clean straw or a grassy dry pasture is best, and if this mare had the foal with joint ill a shot a penicillin at birth might also be a good idea. Good luck with your foaling.


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

thank you CMARIE. I have high hopes for this foal, and i am praying all goes well with the delivery.

I have talked to the vet about everything i can possibly ask her including dipping the umbilical stump. She will also be here the morning following my mares delivery to do her checkup with the placenta and test the foal and make sure their overall health is good. im not taking any chances.

The foal that ended up with joint ill was the foal of someone elses mare on their property. The mare had all her shots, the vet tested the foal when he was a day old to see if he aquired the right amount of colostrum and he tested very very high which was good. The problem with that foal is we think he had some form of immune deficiency dissorder. A autopsy/necropsy? was done, but all that was determined was that he died from a massive abcess in his stomach and severe pneumonia. The vet tested for rhudococcis and it was neg. He actually did not have any septic joints at the time of his death. The vet said that this foal stood minimal at best chances of surviving, but that there was a chance so i took it. He had his joints flushed every other day and three shots three times a day. unfortunatly even after all his treatment and staying at the hospital for weeks he just couldnt pull through. The mare that had this foal was retired from breeding permanently as she had miscarried 3 times prior and had one still born. I did not know this information until after my foal had passed away.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm sorry about that, it sounds like the mare possibly passed it on to the foal which sometimes happens, or the foal had a rupture when he was born and may have aspirated some fluids at birth, the treatment for joint ill is very stressful on the foal. Some breeders will give the foal shots of penicillin at birth along with the tetanus antitoxin it seems to help prevent joint ill.


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

just updating for everyone. We are on day 322 and going strong. Her udder has gone up and down in size for the past two months. Yesterday was the first day i saw real changes in her udder as her size drastically increased and did not go down after turn out. It has increased in size again this morning, though not much. Her hind end is starting to "slough off" and there is just a slight hint of her belly dropping. Her vulva is swelling and elongating many times throughout the day, but it always goes back to "normal" after an hour or two.

her milk color was a DARK sticky yellow until yesterday when it turned a more light sticky yellow and it is the same today. She has been doing allot of butt rubbing for the past two weeks, but she has not come off her feed at all. Her personality has not changed a bit. She is still as affectionate as ever to me and as mean as a snake to the other horses. I have been pulling her in at night to her foaling stall/paddock since day 300. During the day she is only turned out with two other very submissive mares, so there is no worry there. i am also home most of the day and all night, and i am watching her every move.

i am determind to be there when she foals in case anything goes wrong, but also... because i really want to see it  i have already gone over EVERY possible issue that could happen and how to react in each event. I also have stocked up every thing i might need to help foaling in the event my intervention is needed.

All i can do now... is wait. 

Did i mention im impatient ;-)

ps. there will be lots of photos taken


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

*update**

Ok, so here I am sitting in a tent right outside my mare paddoc/stall. She is currently on day 340. She has been progressing nicely. Yesterday her milk test showed a calcium of 450 and a ph of 6.8. I stayed with her all night. She had a few moments where I thought "is this it?", but nothing.
Today by 6pm she had developed HUGE gobs of wax on the ends of her teats and her milk color changed to a white color that you can't see through. All of the signs are there "minus the lack of appetite" plus there are all kinds of thunder/rain storms happening tonight. Tomorrow is the full moon. I am pretty sure she will go tonight unless these storms scare her into waiting till tomorrow.
I figured I would take some bets...do you think it will be tonight or tomorrow?
-do you think colt or filly?
-what color? (The dam is a sorrel n white paint-heterozygous, the sire is a solid red dun-also heterozygous)... so sorrel, sorrel n white, red dun, or red dun n white


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

You're in a tent outside your horse's paddock?? LOL that is awesome. You're the most dedicated horsey mom ever :lol: Made my day

Excited for you two.. can't wait to see pics!


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## KennyRogersPaints (Jan 9, 2011)

Mares like to foal during rainstorms, rain washes away the fluids and decreases the smell, so predators aren't attracted to the area. Lots of fun for us though, to run out on a cold rainy night to help a mare. Haha 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm with sky that is some dedication there! I have slept on cots in the barn, slept in a hammock on the back porch, but never have I thought put a tent in the paddock with them......pray for a happy and safe foaling!


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Good luck!! I love your dedication. My guess is a filly and I think she'll be sorrel with a good bit of white, but not paint. =D

Oh. And I think it will be early in the morning.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

No news yet, so I shall guess a red dun and white filly


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

Wow! What a night! She delivered a healthy red dun filly at 8am! Took her 10 min to have her from the time her water broke to the time she was out. It took 8 min after she stood up and disconected the umbilical cord for her to pass the placenta, which is in perfect condition... I'm soooooo excited! She is such a good momma. I was a little concerned since deception (the momma) usually tries to kill smaller animals (including mini horses), but when she came out she immediatly started talking to her. 

Now... what to name her???


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## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

ongrats!! Pictures??


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Congrats! Love to see pictures of her


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## redpony (Apr 17, 2012)

congratulations! Hope she turns out to be everything to be are hoping for, pics plz
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

Congrats on your filly.


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

YAY! Pics Pics!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Morning Glory! 

How lovely  Congrats!!! You had the right idea with tenting outside her paddock!


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## redpony (Apr 17, 2012)

Oooo, sky, awesome name suggestion!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spirit Lifter (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm insisting on pictures!!!!! Congrats!!!!!!


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

Unfortunatly this is the best I can do

Facebook

All I have is my phone internet, and photobucket isn't cooperating


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

Unfortunatly this is the best I can do

Facebook

All I have is my phone for internet, and photobucket is not cooperating


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

No baby pictures  do you have them set on "private" or "friends only" instead of public? I know facebook automatically defaults to "friends only" and you have to change it.

Sorry just antsy to see baby pics


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

There is a way to post pictures via a phone and Facebook. I do it all the time, but only know how to do it with an iPhone. If you can get the image URL (viewing your pictures through your phone's browser and not the Facebook mobile application) and click "view Full size" which takes you to the image only. Copy that web address and go back to the horse forum. Make sure you are in the full version, not the mobile version. Click the button in the message that has the mountains and sun, paste the image URL in the box. Done


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

If you are able to do what I do on my phone, you don't have to change any privacy settings either. The privacy settings of pictures I have posted are usually friends or friends of friends only. But the image URL can be used here and seen by all so you don't get a bunch of friend requests just to see your filly


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

Ahh! Can't wait to see the pictures!!

And I love the name Morning Glory as well.


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## JanetsPaintedRayne (Apr 28, 2012)

Hooray for babies! I agree with the name Morning Glory!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Congrats on your new filly--love the name Morning Glory. Hope we can see pics soon.


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## CurlyIsASpecialStandie (Jul 19, 2011)

Subbing because i want to see baby pics!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Can't wait for pictures!!!

Glad you guys like the name I thought of at 3 in the morning :lol:


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey guys, sorry about the delay. the only regular access i have to internet is my phone and my phone said i made the album public, but i had to get on a regular computer and change each photo individually, but... the pics are up now. I did decide on a name... Lilah, like Delilah off homeward bound 2 only scratch the "De". Lilah and Deception (momma) are doing very well. Lilah was born with flacid flexor tendons in the hind feet, but they are looking better and better every day. Vet check went well. We did have a lack of milk production yesterday, but it was just a temporary thing. she quit producing milk for about 4 hours. My vet said to keep and eye on her, and after a while she started producing again. I have her on watch to make sure that doesnt happen again. My vet couldnt give me an exact reason for the temporary stop in production, but she gave her the all clear. I have a store with mare milk replacer on hand just incase....

Im not sure how everyone feels about the subject, but i did choose to imprint (after long discussions with several trainers, breeders, and my vet {who was adament about how i should imprint} ) I am SO glad i did. She is such a doll! I can touch her all over, including inside her ears. I can pick up her feet, spray her with a bottle, put a haulter on, she allows me to GENTLY lay her down, and i can roll her over. She actually closes her eyes and becomes completly limber when i turn her on her back. She loves it bacuse i scratch her belly and under jaw. No worries though, i gave momma and baby pleanty of time to bond without my interference. I wasnt sure how Deception was going to respond, but she has been an amazing mother, taking extra care not to step on her or run into her (she only has one eye), and yet, she does not mind me messing with her baby at all. The first two days she would get upset when Lilah would wiggle and squirm, but since Lilah doesnt do that anymore, Deception pays me no mind.

I will continue to post pics as she gets older, and i will make sure to make each photo public


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

oh, something else i forgot to add... Deception NEVER developed a big bag. She had what i would consider a medium sized bag. She did however develop wax about 18-20 hourse prior to foaling. There was also a terrible storm that night, and almost a VERY full moon. Saturday night was the full moon.

Now that Deception has foaled, her bag actually shrank, down to the size it was when she was 280 days along. Vet said that doesnt matter so long as she is producing enough milk. She said some first time mares will never get a "big" bag, some wont develop a big bag until several weeks after foaling, and some wont until the foal is taken away to be weaned...


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

She is beautiful! Thank you for making the pictures public so we could see them


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

I still cant see them...hmmmmmm


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

For anyone having trouble seeing the pictures, here are some of them. Linked directly from the album


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

oh my gosh i saw them on your fb and she is adorable  i love the ones of her laying down. such a pretty girl congrats


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Awwww, precious! Thanks for bringing the pics over .. I can't access facebook from work ..


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

She's unbelievable cute!!!!!!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!


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## redpony (Apr 17, 2012)

What a little darling! Thanks for sharing her with us and plz keep us updated with pics as she grows 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Congrats on a healthy foaling and a beautiful baby!


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## ladytaurean515 (Apr 2, 2012)

Awwwwwwwwwwwwww..isn't she a CUTIE!


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## Ali M (Mar 28, 2011)

So who did the sire end up being? And I can't believe your vet charges $140 for an ultrasound!!!! Ours charges around $30. My jaw dropped open! Congrats on the baby, and that's a good idea to sleep in the tent.


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trishmcd86 (Mar 28, 2011)

Lol, the sire ended up being my red dun and yeah, where I live I have two choices of vets... one that is darn good at her job, comes asap in an emergency, is friendly and has a wealth of knowledge to share with me, but charges an arm and a leg... and a kidney... or a rude vet who will not come for an emergency, looks at you like your stupid when you ask a question and responds with "you won't understand", but is very cheap...

So you can imagine which vet I chose...

and $30!!! Wow! I'm jealous ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

I am very happy to hear that everything is going smoothly, and am expecting lots and lots of pictures


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