# My horse kicked me!



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

The one time my gelding kicked me like that (caught me in the thigh), I chased him backward 90ft with a crop, smacking him across the legs and chest until he submitted. He stood there licking and chewing for a minute, then we went back to what we were doing like nothing had happened. He's never kicked again. 

Your horse needs a "come to Jesus meeting" and soon. You've let him get away with the little things and now they've built into a big thing, which he thinks he can get away with because he wasn't given a punishment to fit the crime when it happened. Watch a herd of horses and if he had kicked at the lead mare in the way he kicked at you (in a ****y, "I want my own way" kind of way), he would have gotten his butt handed to him by the lead mare.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Bambaura said:


> My horse then became nervous, his head was high, and was moving his hind end back and forth. I was standing in front of him telling him "whoa" and petting his head to calm him down....


OK, this is what jumps out at me, you think you are petting his head to calm him down, what you are actually doing is saying, "there there, it's OK to be scared, life is scary"

What he needed was a strong and fearless leader to say "Knock it off fool, I'm here and you just stand there quiet or I will be after you"

By ignoring the pawing you have 'allowed" it, so now you have a big job to get him to quit. As to the cure, I would do the same as Drafty, if he ever lifted that leg near me again he would be taking the long walk backwards hoping at every step that it would not be his last!

I have been doing ground work with the awesome Gibbs, who is the nicest horse to work with, but even he has had some nasty shocks when he has found what he is not allowed to do. Yesterday after the pain he was loading to go to the arena, I got a hand to load him to come home, and she suggested I sent him into the trailer rather than leading him. His default evasion then is to try and muscle you with his shoulder, and it must of worked in the past (he is a big guy). Yesterday he tried it twice, first time he got a wack on the shoulder and told, not here we don't, next time he got a series of huge wacks as we backed around the car park. I then led him up to the trailer and he is "Yes Ma'am I am ON THIS trailer, didn't even hesitate.

Horses are smart, and if you give the wrong horse an opening, or do not provide the comfort they need in having a strong leader, accidents are more likely. I'm glad you are OK, don't let there be a next time.


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## NeryLibra (Oct 9, 2013)

Bambaura said:


> *but by ignoring the behaviour*


See, that right there is a gigantic part of your problem. Ignoring behavior and problems does not make them go away, it leaves a big gaping hole in the horse's training and lets problems amplify. Something you very adequately described when you told us how he went from pawing, to kicking his front hoof out. He's been testing your limits up until that point, and when he struck out, in fear or whatever, he blatantly demonstrated a lack of _respect_ for you. Horses aren't so unaware of what they're doing with their bodies, even when they're scared. If they're respectful of their leader, you can bet your buttons they're not going to rear or strike at the lead mare. Why? Because disrespecting the lead mare has more serious and scary consequences than rearing at her is worth, even if it's a big scary bolt of lightning or breaking branches.

Aires and Golden are right, that horse needs to have an epiphany about humans. He needs to think he is going to _die_ for just a little while when he has done something seriously wrong. He needs to understand that the consequences of disrespecting you, the lead mare, amount to more than it's worth to forget you exist while frightened. 'Cause that's what it comes down to. You're nothing more than an annoying little gnat he tolerates, you don't exist to him as something to be respectful around. Otherwise, he wouldn't have kicked you or even thought about kicking out at you.


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## Bambaura (Jan 10, 2013)

I had a feeling it was respect. Ok so if he brings his foot up to kick should I have my crop whip handy and whack it as soon as he does it? Same for pawing? Making him move is clearly not working!!


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Bambaura said:


> I had a feeling it was respect. Ok so if he brings his foot up to kick should I have my crop whip handy and whack it as soon as he does it? Same for pawing? Making him move is clearly not working!!


Making him move isn't working because I'm sure your not putting enough umph into it. Backing him up and moving him over is just an inconvenience to him. If he doesn't want to stand still he should be moving like his tail is on fire! When you say whoa it mean WHOA. Not whoa for a minute or whoa if you feel like it. If he wants to move MAKE HIM MOVE!! 

Another thing you may want to think about is your horse being buddy sour. What he did was a classic of what a buddy sour horse with no respect would do. 

Remember this. The best behavior you'll get is the worst behavior you'll allow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Bambaura said:


> I had a feeling it was respect. Ok so if he brings his foot up to kick should I have my crop whip handy and whack it as soon as he does it? Same for pawing? Making him move is clearly not working!!


I don't consider that kicking - I see it as aggressive nervous pawing. I do stand with a lunge whip or buggy whip and tap the leg each time with a very firm "QUIT". Eventually it settles to where you can just use 'quit' and perhaps a growl.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Doesn't matter what you call it, it is respect, or lack of it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Golden Horse said:


> Doesn't matter what you call it, it is respect, or lack of it
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So when you are nervous, you have lost respect for whomever you are dealing with?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

From your horse's point of view - he feels more secure when hubby's horse is nearby. Hubby takes his horse away which creates anxiety in your horse. To add to his anxiety he's cross-tied and becomes claustrophobic to boot. You go to his head and reward his behaviour by petting him. Next time ask hubby to wait until horses can go out together. Crossties are handy for the handler but much safer to slip the lead rope over your elbow which gives you immediate control without trying to undo side clips.


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## NeryLibra (Oct 9, 2013)

Mls, we're not saying that you lose respect for someone when you become nervous. We're saying that a lack of respect was made abundantly clear when the horse became nervous. Horses as a whole, like I said, are Not unaware of what they do with their bodies - they're hypersensitive, especially in a herd situation where a lead horse is present. This is because a lead horse's standing is unquestionable and disrespecting the lead horse - fear present or not - has severe consequences, herd members MUST be conscientious of who they're striking out at lest they pay the hell accommodating the disrespect of the lead mare. I guarantee personally that the mare isn't just going to tell the horse who disrespected her "oh it's ok honey, you were just nervous. Don't do it again though, ok?" No. She still makes that horse behave.

When this horse got nervous is when he made it known he had no inhibitions putting his feet near Brambaura. He didn't respect her before (he's described as "pushy," his behavior has been ignored before, and he's been kicking out since well before this spook.) so he definitely didn't respect her during the spook, and he won't respect her after the spook because his consequence, described above at least, wasn't severe enough.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

mls said:


> So when you are nervous, you have lost respect for whomever you are dealing with?


If you are a horse and you make contact with a person, yes, you have lost respect, don't care if it was a kick or pawing, a horses leg or foot should never ever make contact with you.

A persons personal space is that, there should be a bubble around you that your horse will not dream of entering unless they are invited, and that bubble must be so important and so inviolate that ESPECIALLY when they are scared they still will not enter. Without that respect you are not safe, period.


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

You are also dealing with a horse who hasn't been worked because of an injury, has been not corrected for the pawing/kicking, and buddy sour - whew! He's just looking for something to blow up at, in your case it could have been the wind that ended up being the straw that broke the camels' back.
It may be inconvenient for you but will be very valuable to your horse if you stop what you are doing (grooming, etc.), untie him, get a lunge line and take him somewhere (even out in the rain- he won't melt) and really move his feet. Forward trotting, cantering, direction changes, etc. (I'm not sure what his injury is or where he is in recovery time so adjust this accordingly) but he needs to be busy busy busy. Not only physically, but mentally. You want him focused on you because he has no idea what you will ask of him next. 
Then you can return to the cross ties and resume grooming like nothing has happened. Pawing starts again and you drop what you're doing, get out that lunge line and do it again. My guess is that in no time at all, you will be able to pick up the lunge line, tell him "ah ahhh!" and he will stop. Horses are always looking for the path of least resistance - and that knowledge becomes a training gem to put in your pocket.. you will use it a LOT! Good luck


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

This sounds like a lack of respect for your personal space. You are teaching your horse that he doesn't need to work if he can scare you out of it. 

You mentioned working with a trainer; is it something that you are still doing? If so, these are questions that I would address with them. If not, I would seek the help of a professional. A horse that thinks it's ok to strike can get very dangerous, very quickly.


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## Bedhead (Aug 4, 2013)

Since it's the first time he's kicked, this is a habit you're going to want to nip in the bud- as others have stated, a firm spanking often gets the job done. I've only ever had one horse kick at me, and he only did it once. Long story short, I was picking this old stallion's hooves I used to work with, and he tried to kick me when I did his back feet- I spanked him on his hip, up near his tail dock (mostly because that's just where my hand landed) with the hoof pick (flat side, of course). He was a quick learner though, and never even cocked a hoof at me without me asking for it first.

Regardless of whether the husband's horse is there or not, you need to know that he'll respect you, since _you're his alpha mare_.


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## ryster2000 (Nov 27, 2012)

We break our horses from pulling back by untying them and holding the rope, waving a whip around and screaming at them to do better. They back up and we follow them. THEY MUST KNOW WHO IS BOSS. It's not being mean. They have a lead mare who keeps them in check. Horses should think of you as lead mare. In the wild, horses get kicked if they spook at something the matarach (lead mare) is not concerned about because they are doubting the lead pairs ability to keep them safe. So, if you are not concerned, they should not be concerned. If you are concerned and nervous, then they pick up on that and become nervous too. If your horse wants to move around, then make them move around. ALOT. You are lead mare. You are lead mare.


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

I had a horse back in the day that kicked with everything I tried to do. You couldn't even curry her without her pinning her ears and picking up her foot to kick. 

I'm mean, I kick back. Yup, a nice little tap on her tummy, just enough for her to know that I actually had the gall to kick HER. Then for about a month it would go back and forth. She'd pin her ears, grind her teeth and pick up that back foot. I would make a growling noise and pick up my foot. She'd slam hers back down and pretend to be happy. I'd put mine down. Eventually she stopped altogether.

Oh, I also BITE back too, right on the upper lip. Usually shocks the poo out of them. Any horse I have bit has NEVER bit me again.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Bambaura said:


> My horse then became nervous, his head was high, and was moving his hind end back and forth. I was standing in front of him telling him "whoa" and petting his head to calm him down..... and *then his front right foot came up and hit me right in the stomach!!!! *


I don't think you all read this right. This horse did not kick. That would involve hitting with one of the back hooves, which is a horse's strongest defense. He struck forward with his hoof. I can give this horse the benefit that he didn't _intentionally_ strike you. A horse that did that to me would be beaten, then given a trailer loading reminder lesson, then SOLD bc striking deliberately is a vicious attempt to kill the human and "take over the herd." I am TOO OLD to fix this defiance. Kicking is defensive and often a horse will defiantly kick AT You but make sure that he/she is too far away to make contact, therefore NOT attempting to injure you, just a warning shot. 
NEVERTHELESS, you have a training problem.
First, since you are inexperienced DON'T train him on a windy day. I had a training problem that I wanted to work on this weekend and I nixed Saturday bc of >30 mph winds. I waited until Sunday bc it was calm. After I've made enough progress I will pick a windy day and work on that problem again.
Secondly, your horse needs patience being tied. You need to set aside a day when you can tie him up, plant yourself in a chair about 20 feet away with that book you've been meaning to read and let him stand there for 6 hours. I did this with my geldings two years ago. They are in my back yard and I tied them up where I could keep an eye on them and gardened for 6 hours. I have repeated this and they no longer paw or give me problems being tied.
Third, get help so you know how to ground train and discipline. I guess I have always had more self-preservation than "stars in my eyes" about horses, so NOBODY gets away with the little things. Even yesterday, my great mare decided to nip AT me when I was tightening her English saddle. I punched her in the neck IMMEDIATELY. Just bc I'm not riding her often doesn't mean she can get sassy. After that, I had a great ride, stirrupless, since it's "Stirrupless November", of course. =b
When they step on your foot, you "Kick them in Shins." When they invade your space you use a whip or smack them out of the way. THIS is how the herd leader treats the herd, and horses understand this. Get some help.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

mls said:


> I don't consider that kicking - I see it as aggressive nervous pawing. I do stand with a lunge whip or buggy whip and tap the leg each time with a very firm "QUIT". Eventually it settles to where you can just use 'quit' and perhaps a growl.





mls said:


> So when you are nervous, you have lost respect for whomever you are dealing with?


_When in a 'panic' situation whether it is horse or human, if someone takes command and means it, panic will disperse. _

I do not care of the devil himself jumps in front of a horse I am dealing with, if I say it is OK then the horse has to believe me. 

Being 'nice' and cooing/ petting it will only encourage the behaviour. Taking command and making it behave will stop it.

When a horse is in cross ties it is not so easy to correct because there is not the room for _instant _ correction. By the time it is untied to move it backwards or to take it out and lunge it, it is to late. 
_Corrections have to be in the instant!_

If I was working with this horse I would be on its case from the start. The moment it unlocked its knee and you can see this by watching it move its weight onto one leg, and went to lift its leg to paw it would feel the side of my foot against its shin along with the command to stop. If is moved from side to side then it would get a firm poke with my finger, along with the verbal correction. If the finger poke didn't work, I would reinforce it with the pointy end of the hoof pick. This is not to hurt the horse but to act as a distraction in that instant. 

Every time you make excuses or allow it to get away with unwanted behaviour, then it will take more and more advantage. 

I agree with Cherie when she says "The worse behaviour you allow is the best behaviour you can expect."

Get tougher and offer firm, fair leadership.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> I do not care of the devil himself jumps in front of a horse I am dealing with, if I say it is OK then the horse has to believe me.
> 
> Being 'nice' and cooing/ petting it will only encourage the behaviour. Taking command and making it behave will stop it.


:thumbsup: Oh yes


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Also, let me point out that standing in front of a nervous or upset horse is asking to get struck and you were not reading this horse at all if you allowed it to happen.

And agree with the babying behavior.

Will disagree with making a TB move as punishment and yelling and screaming at one. They react differently, and will, if they see fit, kill themselves and you trying to get away from you.

Flight instinct if very strong in them. Which is why Lyons wouldn't work with them...all of his garbage, and the other NH mess doesn't work well with them at all. 

This is a breed that needs calm consistent handling, and firm understanding of what is and isn't allowed.

Your feed might have something to do with this too.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Your horse strikes. Striking is a very dangerous behavior. Striking with front feet is something a horse does when chasing something else away.. be it a coyote or two studs in a fight. 

Using the "ignore it if is bad behavior" thing is something the clicker people do with dogs. I can tell you a good number of dogs do not get it and no horses I have ever had. Including Thoroughbreds. Saying a horse has to be treated differently because of the breed is an excuse. It is not a breed thing. It is an individual horse thing. 

First of all, if your horse is a striker, do not tie him hard and fast or put him in cross ties. Teach him to stand by getting control of his feet. If he strikes at you or anything have THREE SECONDS to convince him you are going to KILL him and your response must be immediate. He will probably react to your whip and screams by rolling his eyes and trying to get out of your way. Keep at him. Then go back to what you were doing. If he moves or strikes again, you go at him again. This time make him keep moving where he does not want to go (reverse is good for this). When he starts to blink rapidly.. chew or lick.. you won. 

*Ultimately you need HELP from someone who will take this horse in hand* and let him know his diddling won't be tolerated and *who can read the horse *well enough to know how much pressure is needed to change the behavior.


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

Golden Horse said:


> A persons personal space is that, there should be a bubble around you that your horse will not dream of entering unless they are invited, and that bubble must be so important and so inviolate that ESPECIALLY when they are scared they still will not enter. Without that respect you are not safe, period.


yes, yes, and YES !


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