# Is he a dun? Frame?



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes, id say he is bay dun, like his dam.

And he can absolutely hide frame. His dam could have been hiding it as well, so it would have been smart to have her tested before breeding to that sire. But, colt is healthy.

If you ever use him for breeding, test him first. Its a simple $25 test. Results come back in just a few weeks.
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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

What is it about dun, exactly, that's got you confused? It's a modification gene that generally lightly dilutes the base coat color, gives the horse darker shaded points (legs, ears, sometimes mane and tail), but the most telling signs of dun is a very prominent and dark dorsal stripe, accompanied by a bar on the shoulders, often, there is also zebra striping on the legs, and sometimes there is also markings on the forehead.

Dun is dominant, so if the horse carries a single gene for it (heterozygous), then they will be colored as a dun. Heterozygous has a 50% chance of throwing a dun foal, homozygous will throw a dun foal every time, regardless of what they are bred to.

Yes, both dam and foal appear to be a bay dun...and very attractive as well.


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Thank you! I hope to see the colt this week, possibly a trade. I can usually pick out a champagne or cream horse but growing up I was taught anything with a dorsal stripe was dun. Now I come on here and learn about counter shading and that dun comes in shades depending on the base coat. I don't know why that was so surprising but I'm sure we've all been taught some incorrect horsey terms. 

I knew there were other dun characteristics as well, I can remember being about 13 and thoroughly impressed that the girls horse beside me had zebra legs, and my horse was just white with butterscotch freckles that as an adult, I now realize was a grey.
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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

The shading on the hind legs is neat .. hope it stays that way, the white leg marking then the dark is pretty. I would have called the mare a buckskin as I dont see a dorsal stripe. I would call your colt a dun as he has the dorsal stripe. and he is what many call a crop out paint ( basically a paint with no big spots) . He is sure cute.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

The colt can't be dun if the dam isn't dun, so yes I feel that they are both bay dun. Also, a crop out paint is a paint that is from two seemingly solid parents that produced a loud foal. A foal born of loud parents that has minimal markings is a solid paint bred.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

You wouldn't be able to see a dorsal stripe on the mare at that angle, but that big patch of dark on her withers is a dun marking. Also, IMO, she's too gold to be a bay, but not quite gold enough for buckskin. I would guess the foal is bay dun too. Do you have a picture of the colt's face?


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Sorry for the delay, had to ask for more pictures. But there is his cute face. Thank you for all the input, everyone! I totally missed the dark patch on the dam!
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

He could easily be frame with the shape of his blaze. Frame prefers top heavy facial markings and something as simple as his could be caused by frame. You can see my mare's blaze in my avatar and she's N/O. Test him! If even for curiosity's sake if you plan on gelding him.


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

She is cute! For 25 bucks it is definitely worth the curiosity. If I get him, time will tell if he keeps his danglies. Nut jobs don't get to keep their, well, ya know. 
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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Let us know if you do. It takes a couple weeks or so to get the results, but if he comes up N/O, update us! It's nice to have references to very minimally marked frame-positive horses.


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Haha you guys will know if I take him home, his little face will be spamming up the forum every ten seconds. It would definitely be interesting to see, a 'plain' breeding stock paint that isn't technically so solid under there. 
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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Would you keep him a colt?


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

If he turned out to be sound of mind and body, perhaps. I have shown 2 APHA horses before, a colt and a filly, but both were colored and as I understand it, stock APHA has to go in a seperate, harder to find class and can't go as far, which is disappointing. Then again, I don't put much value in some winning halter horses that are too weirdly built to even ride, beefcakes with a pretty face and not much else. I know his sire was a a halter horse that did well enough in shows, but he is also 16 years old and is a safe riding horse these days so he probably has a brain and no glass hooves. Hopefully the dam has nice lines. 

Basically in a paint I want brain, diamond hooves, muscle, and (no offense to the English riders with paints) a background of success in western events, beyond halter. Or at least a capable, dependable ranch horse line. I've done a little of everything so I want something that can keep up, mentally and physically, if I go the paint route again. I had more issues out of my filly than my colt!

Wow that was an excessive explanation.
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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm going to look at him tomorrow if everything works out. His sire is on the premises, so I can get better pictures of both. I can't wait to see him!
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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Dam - 
All Breed Pedigree Query

Sire - 
All Breed Pedigree Query
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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

Half siblings and heights they reached 




























His owner has a bad back and has been unable to work with him lately so he was a bit fresh. We put him in the round pen and let him work out his sillies, and when he was calm and ready to behave, he was fine. A little mouthy, but never tried teeth. Still something I'd like to get out of him of I take him home. He is toed out a little in one front, she said it was because he went a little longer than usual without a trim and I have corrected had a pigeon toe corrected on a colt with some corrective farrier work so I'm not too worried about that.

If anyone is still looking at this and wants to take an objective look at him for me, I'd appreciate it! His sire was built like a tank, as was his sire's dam and I definitely liked that!
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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I can't give you a real good critique because those pictures are absolutely awful...lol
He needs to be standing square, head up, legs level to get a good idea of what his conformation is like. 
I'm pro-gelding, but I guess it depends on what your goals/wants are. I didn't get anything out of him that stood out as stallion quality. Definitely looks like he'd a hardy gelding for ya! 
Definitely would need better photo's, though.


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> I can't give you a real good critique because those pictures are absolutely awful...lol
> He needs to be standing square, head up, legs level to get a good idea of what his conformation is like.
> I'm pro-gelding, but I guess it depends on what your goals/wants are. I didn't get anything out of him that stood out as stallion quality. Definitely looks like he'd a hardy gelding for ya!
> Definitely would need better photo's, though.


**** I know the pictures are terrible. Being picture taker and colt wrangler wasn't working out in my favor yesterday. Every time I had him remotely square I'd step back and he would either try to follow me or, as you can see, pick at weeds. I'll look at some more horses and look at him again before I can make a decision. It isn't one I take lightly, since one of my herd will have to go to make room for another, there's only so much pasture and I don't want it torn up or patchy. So, that's where I'm at.
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