# Collar for brakes instead of breeching



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

The entire set up and use has to be looked at. A collar is not a brake. It is there to give forward motion to the load by the horse pushing against it. It distributes and stabilizes a load. In what you have shown, though to be fair I only watched a small part, because of the set up when the horse stops the "load" stops. If the stop is fair - on level ground with a load that the horse is capable of then no problem. If it is down hill significantly and beyond the capability of the horse due to size then unfair. Britching or not.. Similar to a truck pulling a trailer. If they are a suitable match then no problem. Attach something that is too heavy and in trying to stop the truck is pushed beyond the target stopping point.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

A true collar harness is not what you have or show in picture or video though...
A picture of a similar harness..."with brakes" ...
















You are trying to use a breeching strap for what appears a mule pack/riding saddle for a breastplate harness.....no.
What bothers me with your equipment is the lack of the proper straps to secure in place the horse not get rubs or as shown in your video, he could get caught as the thing moves around so much.
I did not watch all the video but what I did made me cringe. 
Your attached video also shows how poorly fitting the chest and shoulders on the black horse who paws the ground with a man handling ...a source of sores and the animal not being able to do the work you expect of it to their ability because the equipment you choose is wrong and not fit nor does it protect the sensitive wither and back where a true harness would be padded and secured by a girth strap.
Your "harness" lacks the brakes section the actual breeching supplies to hold the pulled objects weight back away from the hocks and lower legs.
There is nothing I see to "stop" your horse from being run over by the pulled...a single tree _without_ proper tugs and trace in place is a safety concern for the animal to me.
Traces and tugs appear to be bolted together something...
It isn't just "stopping" but the ability to start that forward motion and use the body freely to work and get going as it needs to do or be sored.

If those were my horses...somehow I would find a way to get a "real" harness so the animal is most comfortable and able to do the work expected of it with least amount of soreness or danger to the animal.
I saw on this website choices for a entry level, cost friendly harness...similar to what you have currently, but it fits..





Horse Driving Harness| Horse Harness for Sale | Two Horse Tack


Find miniature and pony-sized horse harnesses for sale at Two Horse Tack! We carry quality harnesses for all your driving needs, ideal for beginners. Simpler breeching, driving bridle without a noseband. Place an order now!




www.twohorsetack.com




It sure looks a lot safer to me, and comfortable for the horse to work in...
I bet there are other places around for similar or better pricing and places in your area that used harness is sold or bartered for.
🐴...


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## Unlucker (Feb 13, 2021)

horselovinguy said:


> What bothers me with your equipment is the lack of the proper straps to secure in place the horse not get rubs or as shown in your video, he could get caught as the thing moves around so much.


Thanks for the analysis! It's not my horses nor video. It's what people use in my area. To them the idea of using breeching is too complicated and unnecessary.
The brakes are there, in case you didn't get the idea, the horse brakes with it's neck.

Harness that I got looks identically to this one. May I ask how good it is? 🐴


Spoiler: image

















QtrBel said:


> . A collar is not a brake. It is there to give forward motion to the load by the horse pushing against it. It distributes and stabilizes a load.


You probably missed it, but there is second neck collar, it's what is used for brakes. I marked it with an arrow


Spoiler: brake


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Your first picture "spoiler" is of a proper harness that is supportive of the animal using their body to engage forward and engage the hind-end to stop whatever it is being pulled.
I'm not crazy the shaft securement but it is how it is desgined used and that makes it work because it has proper breastplate and proper breeching to hold the load and let the animals body work correctly for forward, backward and stop.
I would tweak the fit a bit but it is far better than what is shown in the second "spoiler" which to me is a horror to the animal.
No animal should be using their body in such a way to stop a pulled load...
The man standing behind the team, just seen behind the black is cruelly handling the horses and their mouths to have a reaction such as this... both horses are mouth barred open, goodness knows what kind of "bit" and forcing a single tree to that angle and the animals to use their neck not their chest, shoulders or hind-end enclosed with proper breeching to stop...that neck "stopping" collar is a nightmare to see and for the animals to wear!
The black horse is rearing in complaint should tell you much about what this person, their handling of the team and equipment used for the animals to endure is like.
A fast way to ruining a pulling team and injure the animals.
🐴...


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## Unlucker (Feb 13, 2021)

Thanks. So it's as horrible as I thought. Hopefully some day this would be considered as cruel by everyone. 🐴


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t like the last image at all! To be fair, the pulling horses I’ve been around are few, although we currently have a horse who does pull. I can’t imagine a horse trying to break anything with their head!! Wow!

I didn’t understand the first picture either, not just because of the breaking lack, but because of how the horses are attached to the load. I was confused. When I see our old farm equipment, there are always bars for each animal. There is the bar that goes between for balance yes, but they pull from individual bars which attach behind them, thereby balancing the weight on each animal. Is the weight not balanced on the single tree in the picture?


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## Unlucker (Feb 13, 2021)

Knave said:


> There is the bar that goes between for balance yes, but they pull from individual bars which attach behind them, thereby balancing the weight on each animal. Is the weight not balanced on the single tree in the picture?


Almost everyone is using independent whippletree on each side of the load. 


Spoiler: image












source:


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

That is good! I just wasn’t seeing it in the first picture and confused as all get out. Lol


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Unlucker said:


> Thanks for the analysis! It's not my horses nor video. It's what people use in my area. To them the idea of using breeching is too complicated and unnecessary.
> The brakes are there, in case you didn't get the idea, the horse brakes with it's neck.


I didn't see that as it is covered with writing. So yes, by connecting any part of tack the horse is wearing to the pole whether by chain or strap you are creating brakes. I'd say emergency brakes as on level ground or with a load that is not beyond the capability of the horse/team then it won't come into play to an extent that creates a problem. For them with what they are doing breeching isn't necessarily necessary. Breeching can be complicated and it can also make the situatuation unsafe if they don't understand the principles involved and have to make their own as "bought" harness may be unaffordable or unavailable.




Unlucker said:


> In my region historically people use collar for brakes. To me this looks horrible and cruel for the horse. *Before I start to argue with them since they're annoyed when they see breeching part on my horses*, I wanted to know is using the collar is fine or it is damaging the health?


Above reply of mine said, ANY harness set up, tack or communication device can be cruel or cause injury if ill fitting, not properly adjusted or in the wrong hands. There is absolutely no need for breeching in some (not all) situations. It all depends on the conveyance/equipment and length of pole and play in attachments, job to be done, weight of load if wheeled, terrain....

I bolded the above as it isn't your place to argue about their choice of harness. Can it be cruel? In the wrong hands sure. Just as anything else horse related. Can it do the job without injury to the animal? Sure and likely these people if they were raised with this and have worked animals since childhood have a good understanding of their use of their equipment on their animals that they depend on for their livelihood. Now if they come up to you telling you you need to remove the breeching and that it is cruel - opportunity to educate them about your harness and why you made the choice to use that on your animals.

All of that said there are different styles of harness in use all over the world for different purposes and much of it doesn't have breeching. Heck some of it doesn't have a bridle component. In agrarian societies where they only have access to or ability to afford the basics then the basics get the job done.


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## Unlucker (Feb 13, 2021)

QtrBel said:


> I bolded the above as it isn't your place to argue about their choice of harness. Can it be cruel? In the wrong hands sure. Just as anything else horse related. Can it do the job without injury to the animal? Sure and likely these people if they were raised with this and have worked animals since childhood have a good understanding of their use of their equipment on their animals that they depend on for their livelihood. Now if they come up to you telling you you need to remove the breeching and that it is cruel - opportunity to educate them about your harness and why you made the choice to use that on your animals.


I understand that it's rude to argue about their choice of equipment. It always comes down to me defending myself  The terrain here is not flat, a lot of hills everywhere you go. And the load is always on wheels. The problem is, they were raised with this and have worked with this as you said, but never questioned the mechanics. People that own one horse drive with single team pole using harness that I showed. In stalls horses are tied to the feeder and can't freely move. Fortunately things are slowly changing.. 🐴


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## secuono (Jul 6, 2011)

Took me a while to realize that you are probably talking about the neck collar up by the pole. Not ideal.

You can use the surcingle to stop, if they have a wither, not lard. And a real tree in it to keep its shape. Then it's much like a western roping saddle that stays put when livestock yank on it. If the wither is fat, then the tree could pop over the shoulders in extreme cases. 
This is used on horses in shows, where the ground is flat. 
But two flat ropes as breeching would be easier and cheaper for them. One over the hip, one over the thigh. So, if they refuse breeching, no chance they'll use a surcingle.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@secuono don’t make fun of wither free horses! 😜 Lol. It’s not always lard you know, whatever you and my husband choose to say about Cashman!


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