# Worst Hoofs I've Ever Seen. Need Advice.



## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

I rescued this horse from a home where she was neglected for two years, left in a field all alone as a backyard ornament. 
My farrier has tried gluing on shoes backwards but they came off.
The bottom of the hoof is flat. She started foundering but has been off grass for a month now, the x-rays only showed slight rotation in one of the front feet. She has some hair loss and rubbing around the fetlocks. I am treating that with Dresden (the diaper rash stuff) and I am using hoof hardner on her hoofs. She will not allow me to pick up her front feet for more then a few seconds. She can trot just fine but no cantering. I am not riding her. 
Supplement wise she is on bute for now and biotin for hoof growth.
If anyone can offer any advice on keeping her comfortable and healthy please let me know. If anyone knows how to teach a horse to lie down that would really really help me since she wont hold her feet up for the hoof hardener.
You can see from the pictures that there are fibers poking out the bottom of the hoof, the feet are too short, the hoof wall is pealing back, and there is a lot of grooves in the hoof wall.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

For starters get them out of the mud!, I had a similar problem with my horse and I thought the farrier did a horrible job, I had a second person come and look at them only for them to tell me they needed to grow up and then they could be shaped a little better.

What did the farrier say?


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

I cannot really get her out of the mud, it isn't my boarding facility and she needs to be off grass. In Virginia it keeps raining so it'll be a while till it gets dry. 
The farrier and vet said to keep her in the mud to keep her comfortable. Despite her comfort I think it is taking a toll on her feet. She has already been on bute for a month so I have to start weaning her off. These pics were taken today and the vet was out four weeks ago. They looked better at that time.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

You might just have to give it time, and let them grow out. 
I've never really heard of letting a horse stand in mud for comfort. In the long run the mud will take a toll on the horses feet. They will become rotten from all the moisture and bacteria and they could become very dry and brittle.


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

Are you sure about the dry and brittle part? They seem too soft. I was told to use hoof hardener... 
If it were your horse would you leave the horse in the mud paddock to avoid eating grass (b/c she started to founder) or would you move her to a grass paddock and leave a grazing muzzle on that has already started rubbing patches of fur off her cheekbones??


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Grass paddock. Get a different grazing muzzle.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I am gonna have to disagree with Equestruin in this case! 

It is good for a horse to stand in mud for certian amounts of time and it will not make the hooves dry and brittle the exact opposite actually. A horse needs to take in some moisture thru the hoofs (that is where the mud comes in) However they shouldn't be standing in mud all the time because then they will develop thrush. 

Whlie her hoofs are as short as they are I would also advise you to leave her on as soft as ground as possible! If the coffin bone has already started to rotated don't take the chance of putting her back on grass. Founder is a very serious matter and should be handled accordingly. 

Her feet aren't terrible, I have seen much much horse (where the hoof has actually turned up so much that it is touching the front of the leg) You are doing the right thing by having her routinly checked my the farrier and vet. Keep up what you are doing and be patient for that hoof to grow back correctly. 

I do advise taking her off the bute though and let her deal with some bit of discomfort for her own good. Bute is not good on a horses liver, same as drugs are harmful to a humans liver.


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

Thank you both so much for your advice. I really appreciate it. 

Has anyone tried out some of the keratex hoof treatment products? I am wondering which ones might work best.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Horse's hooves suffer when the environment fluctuates between wet and dry. So when she take him out of standing in the mud all day to actually being able to put him in dry they can become very dry and cracked. Like you said the feet can develop thrush and/or scratches (a skin infection in the fetlock area that can cause lameness). Horses that stand in mud all day are more prone to infections and abscesses.

Also, it might just be his skin but it looks really red and irritated.


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

She* does have scratches.... Suggestions for treating that? And how can I tell if she has an abscess? I know that is a dumb question but I've never had that problem before.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I use Crudbusters (not sure who makes it) and MTG both with great results for scrathes. I have a friend that also uses Watkins Ointment (for people) and she swears by it for scratches but I've never used it! 

I have never used that line that you are talking about, hopefully other people can help you with that.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

No question is dumb when your trying to help a horse. Your actually being very smart by asking instead of protecting your ego. =) 
You can go to a local horse supplier and get a solution called "Riotte" or you can search around for a different brand name. You could also get a spray bottle and mix it with warm water and a teaspoon of bleach and spray it on the infected area. The only way to 100% help is to put the horse in a dry area. 

If the horse is having any problems picking the hoof up, walking or doing normal activities he could have an abscess. If it is one it might look like a bruise or a dark area. Get the farrier out to dig it out. To treat them you can get over the counter things and soak it. And provide a clean area.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Desensitizing her (by just handling her feet daily, for gradually longer periods of time) will help her get over her issue with pulling her foot back. 

You could get some protective boots for her feet right now too...they have ones that go up and over the pastern a good ways...this may help keep her foot dryer, and help heal the scratches (as Equestriun said, those may not totally heal until she is dry for a long time!); I have had good success with simply washing a horse's fetlocks with a good medicated shampoo daily, and applying chlorhexadine to them 2 times a day. Keeping her clean as possible is the key here, so whatever 'medication' you choose, you will want to hose her fetlocks off before you apply it. Try to trim any excess hair away from her fetlocks as well, because all that excess will keep extra moisture in, which is what you don't want...get rid of it, so that even when she's out in the paddock, if she finds a fairly dry spot, she will dry fairly quickly.


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

ok more relevant questioin, since I've been researching online for days. How can I tell if I need hoof hardener as opposed to something like RainMaker for cracked/dry hoofs? I can't imagine needing them within the same month. My vet says I need hardener, but I'd still like to know how to tell which one I need.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

While I would say since she is standing in mud she doesn't need a hoof moisturizer. 

You know what would also be a great thing to do? Talk to another vet. Not saying your vet doesn't know what he/she is talking about but it's always good to get some fresh eyes on the situation. And two opinions are always better than one!


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

That's my whole goal. I have two vets, two farriers, lots of horse knowledgeable friends, and recently this topic in the forums.  -although I cannot get in contact with my vet recently... or my farrier. 
I am a collector of opinions lately.

Again a big thank you to everyone for you help!!!


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## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

Look into her diet - hooves grow from the coronary band downwards 

Good feet are a combination of good farriery , good diet and good maintenance, if any part is missing then the end result will not be complete (e.g. you can have the best diet and farrier in the world but if you don't clean out your horses feet then you'll get thrush )

If your horse has foundered in the past and has rotation then you obviously need to be careful what you feed her but if vital parts of her nutrition are missing she will always have weak feet.

Hardeners and moisturisers are all very good but they don't contribute to the new growth or the real strength of the hoof .


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

I would wash her legs down daily but she is over an hour away from me and I cannot find an affordable stable closer by.


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

Nutty Saddler said:


> Look into her diet - hooves grow from the coronary band downwards
> 
> Good feet are a combination of good farriery , good diet and good maintenance, if any part is missing then the end result will not be complete (e.g. you can have the best diet and farrier in the world but if you don't clean out your horses feet then you'll get thrush )
> 
> ...


hence the biotin supplements. is there anything else I should look into


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## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

I know of two ways to teach a horse to lay down.

One method is quick and rough, and forces the horse onto the floor ( I don't do this as I don't agree with this method ) 

The way I teach involves holding one leg off the floor - and as you have a problem with this I don't think it would help at the moment.

As your horse is willing to pick her feet up it dosen't sound like she is being naughty. It is probable that there is extra discomfort in the leg that remains on the floor as it will be taking the extra weight. Try tending to the feet in short bursts - it may take longer but you will be causing your horse less pain, and she will be less likely to come to resent picking her feet up. Picking her feet up should get easier as her feet improve.

One of my horses has trashed legs and I rotate legs quickly, spending only a minute or two on each leg. I also only do one pair at a time - leaving severall hours ( if not days ) between tending the front pair and the back pair.


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## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

Biotin supplements are good - I feed oats ( not a good idea as you have a foundered horse ), Make sure you have a good source of quality hay, my vet advises to keep our pony ( had a touch of lammi ) on just hay with a small ammount of hard feed for the supplements ( we give him minerals , salt , cider vineger ) , we were also told to soak the hay as this can remove some of the unwanted sugar .


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

She picks up her feet in the shortest blips ever. I cannot even pick them out. I dress the top of the hoof and that is about all I can do. The back feet she is starting to hold up. She is a very willing horse, I know she is in a lot of pain and I'd like to remain gentle with her. I'd never force a horse to lay down, but I know there are ways to train them to do this. I am familiar with Parelli and I just cannot figure this one out. 
Did I mention she is a Belgian? Forcing her to hold her feet up is almost impossible.


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## Nutty Saddler (May 26, 2009)

I know how to use force to not only lay a horse down but to also hold a foot up, and I won't explain how to do it on an open forum .

I force a horses leg up on very rare occasions , only if the horse is being deliberatly obnoxious and I need to trim its feet - and only after all other methods have failed - if you really want to know PM me.


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

I don't know how I feel about that yet. It's 3am though so I am out. I appreciate the help everyone. I will be getting horse groceries tomorrow if anyone has suggestions let me know.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I'd go to this forum. It's all farriers. You'll get everything you need to know from these guys.

Farriers Helping Horse Owners - The Farrier & Hoofcare Resource Center Forums


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

What about EZ boots all around? Wouldnt that get rid of the mud issue and protect the feet from further chipping. They can be removed for cleaning and medicating. This would be the obvious option to me, but maybe I'm missing an important detail in why they won't work. Even if she wont hold her feet up for long if you can start to get them on and she puts her foot down you can probably finish the job. Don't be afraid to handle her feet either, to many people think that their horse is just impossible to pick out because they are afraid of being stepped on or just general fear of the damage a hoof can cause. Be deliberate and end on success, she will figure it out.


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## Solon (May 11, 2008)

I'd be finding another vet/farrier. It sure seems like who you are working with now isn't pointing you in the right direction.

The link I gave you to the farrier forum will really help you out.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

No grains, find a GOOD source of amino acids, boiton, and zinc  

Get her OUT OF THE MUD if you can't afford a stall for her find a way !

you ahve to get there DAILY to treat her legs and hooves no other way about it ...


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## lovemyponies (Jul 26, 2008)

just wanted to say kudos to you for taking this horse on and spending so much time money and effort on it...... well done good luck, it will take time but sounds like you are doing everything you can


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## Cowgurl060405 (Jun 7, 2009)

TroubledTB said:


> What about EZ boots all around? Wouldnt that get rid of the mud issue and protect the feet from further chipping. They can be removed for cleaning and medicating. This would be the obvious option to me, but maybe I'm missing an important detail in why they won't work. Even if she wont hold her feet up for long if you can start to get them on and she puts her foot down you can probably finish the job. Don't be afraid to handle her feet either, to many people think that their horse is just impossible to pick out because they are afraid of being stepped on or just general fear of the damage a hoof can cause. Be deliberate and end on success, she will figure it out.


EZ boots are awesome! That's what I was going to suggest  My fox trotter gelding developed a horrid case of white line two years ago. He has horrible feet anyways, so this really scared me as he was starting to have some slight rotation. I prefer to keep my horses unshod and his feet won't hold shoes well anyways, so I kept ezboots on him. I took them off once a day for like an hour to medicate, but other than that they were always on. If you can't afford a stall for her, could you maybe keep her in a round pen and pile it with sand or shavings? Mud is really not going to help the situation. I moved my gelding down to an all sand environment and his feet are nearly 100% recovered. Good luck! Feet issues are never fun.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

If the horse is in mud and/or wet condition EZ Boots will just hold the moisture on the foot


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## hotreddun (Jun 27, 2008)

What I would do...with the info you've given me...

1) Nutrition nutrition nutrition. She needs lots of good grass hay (soaked maybe since she is a founder case), and a good mineral pellet. Those grooves in her hooves are mineral deficiencies. I LOVE ADM Stay Strong. I switched over to it 2 months ago and my older IR, chronic laminitis gelding LOVES them and looks fantastic. They are great little pellets that have lots of good minerals, vitamins, and are extremely low starch/sugar. I would also use Omega Horseshine (ground stabilized flax) because if she's not on grass she is not getting her fatty acids.

2) Don't use all the hoof conditioners...a lot of times those either lock in the dry or lock in the moisture. They WILL NOT help the surface cracks. The cracks have to GROW out.

3) Clean out her hooves daily maybe twice a day if its that muddy and spray some apple cider vinegar in the cleft (middle of frog) and sides of frog to prevent any bacterial messes from growing. If it gets real bad use a 50/50 goo of Athlete's Foot Cream and Triple Antiobiotic ointment once a day everyday.

4) I would get her boots. They would protect her foot as well as keep her comfortable with the founder. I like Easyboot Glove. You can order pads as well to trim and make her comfortable. You have to stimulate blood flow through movement. No blood flow...no new hoof growth.

5) Wait and be patient. You have to solve hoof problems from the hairline down. The hoof has to grow out with the right nutrition and right farrier.


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## hotreddun (Jun 27, 2008)

My farrier said to drill a hole in the bottom of the boot to avoid water collection. Besides that you are supposed to be checking the feet once a day everyday. Water and mud are not the enemy. Mud built up and left in the hoof for days and allowed to grow bacteria is the enemy.


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## NikkiB (Jun 26, 2009)

I would use EZ boots but her feet are way too big, even the biggest size EZ boot wont work.


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## HorseLover09 (Jun 27, 2009)

*First time foal owner,2yrs old, maybe pregnant, but not sure??*

I have had or been around horses my whole life but I have always bought the ones already broke or the really old ones. I just bought my filly August 2nd, 2008. She was in the pasture when I got her with 2 colts , that I was told mounted her alot. In fact they hurt one of her back legs from doing so. Well all has been great until today I noticed her teets are swelling. The first thing I thought was maybe a tick was on there and she was getting swollen from that, cuz sometimes they do get little knots where the tick is at. Anyways , no ticks , no cuts or anything and then I squeezed on and liquid did come out. But she was skinny when I got her and she is looking alot better now, in fact after finding this I did kinda take a step back and "really " look at her and her little belly to me looks a little "rounder" maybe its just me looking too hard , I dont know. I have never had nor never been around a pregnant horse. She has gone into season 1 or 2 times since I have had her. Is it possible and when should they start to show?


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## HorseLover09 (Jun 27, 2009)

*oooopppssss sorry first time posted wrong place*

Im so sorry , not sure where to post my posting...first time at this.


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## chelssss(: (Jul 22, 2008)

I bought Keratex for the very old cracks my TB has had, and this stuff has saved him.
I've seen an improvement in two days with this stuff, yes its a little messy, but it *WORKS*! And it can help your rescue also, if she is good with her feeet being picked up, put this on the bottom of her hoof, around the hoof wall, everywhere, and it should help grow her feet out. Its water proof, and it DOES NOT rub off, it stays on, through mud, water, dirt, everything.

Here is the website where you can read more about Keratex, its about $20 dollars, but its the greatest Hoof Care product I have used yet.
Keratex Equine Hoofcare - keratex.net


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## masatisan (Jan 12, 2009)

I have heard wonders about this stuff but you have to make sure there is no bactiria in the hoof and they have to be absolutly clean and dry before you start.


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## angie22d (Jul 10, 2009)

its better for her to be in the mud to take the pressure off her feet but as they grow out watch them you my need to shoe her to keep them from cracking as bad i had to do this with my girl


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## Barrelracer Up (May 22, 2009)

One thing I saw that was kinda neat....take old mattresses, place them in the stall and cover with wide conveyor belts. Two belts actually overlapped about 5 inches in the middle and they ran the width of the stall that I saw.
Add a little shavings to catch the urine. This is not a long term deal unless you can get the whole deal sealed and water tight. 
In this case it was for the comfort of a founder horse.

I would only feed free choice (work up to this) timothy hay/orchard grass, dac bloom, dac orange, AND dac DDA with free choice salt brick and fresh H2O.
Here is an article about diet and founder.
Here is an alternative to your bute, dac Herbal Respond.

Good luck.


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## 7Ponies (May 21, 2009)

Are those flies all over her legs? You must get her out of the filthy wet conditions. Find somewhere you can put her that is cleaner.

I would also be tempted to clip her pasterns and fetlocks, so you can keep her lower legs clean and get the cuts healed up.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

*Please please please try putting him on this supplement! It's called Dumor Hoof and it made my Clydesdale's hooves grow out so much I had to stop using it. Use it until they grow out right.*


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

get some fake hoof cauck and make her a hoof. vettec.com has alot of good products. althought it needs to grow, you still need regular trims. what do the rest of her feet look like? put down straw, mulch or fine gravel if you cant get her out of the pasture.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

I was thinking, just to keep her out of the mud, could you put a tarp down, and either stake it or tie it to keep it in place? They way she's off grass and the hard ground, but out of the wet muddy mess.

They need to be cleaned daily. Unfortunately, all your efforts will be foiled if you cannot clean them daily - bacteria is just going to gather and eat away any new growth.

if she won't hold her feet up very long, it's likely because it's hurting the leg/foot she's now standing on.

I agree with NuttySaddler's idea to do it in short spurts. If she won't hold her feet up long enough to be picked, try getting a water hose ready and running (maybe with a spray nozzle) and sort of "power washing" the dirt out when she picks up her feet momentarily. Let her rest between times she has to pick up her feet.

I would say do this on dry flat ground. Put down a towel for her to put her foot back down on so soak up extra moisture and get the bottom of the foot very clean and dry.

I definitely agree with getting second opinions. Talk to your vet and farrier about EZ Boots, or about something you can put down over the mud to keep the feet clean - because standing in that mud is going to cause your boat loads of problems.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Have only read first page, so I may be repeating, but get onto hoofrehab.com & study that for starters, get onto safergrass.org & study that, regarding diet for lami-prone horses. If she is in a lot of pain, keeping her in the mud may well be best for now, but exercise is one neccessary factor for rehab, so get her some boots &/or pads, to allow her to exercise comfortably. Using something such as Vettec SoleGuard in order to keep her soles protected but also supported is very helpful. I don't agree with using 'hoof hardeners', as that's not what she needs, it's thickness & concavity that she needs, which can only be grown in.

Anyway, short & incomplete reply, but out of time. Hope it helps!


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

Try MTG for the cuts I would get the farriers butt back up there he should be helping you fix her hooves


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## sillybunny11486 (Oct 2, 2009)

talk to your vet about everything. get your vet and farrier communicating and on the same page. horses often stand in mud to cool hooves and releave pain, but if shes avoiding the mud, its obviously hurting her. if its too thick/ deep its puting a strain on her ligaments and tendons.


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## luvmytwh (Oct 6, 2009)

There are several homemade remedies you can try for her mud fever, like 50/50 extra strength diaper rash cream (the 40% zinc oxide one) and furazone mixed (you have to wear gloves, it's carcinogenic to humans), or the 50/50 Lotrimin athlete's foot cream and Farnam Three-Way Ointment, but I prefer a product called Colloidal Silver, from Applied Equine Podiatry. It's a natural product, and it works. Scrub the areas at least daily with warm water and betadine to keep the bacteria at bay. You'll have to play around with remedies for mud fever, because it seems no two products work the same on any two horses. Also, No boots while she's in that mud. Even with holes in the boots, there is urine, manure, and all kinds of bacteria in that mud that will be impossible to keep out of any boots, and boots will just hold it against her feet longer. No Keratex, it contains formaldehyde- bad juju for hooves. If you already have it, limit it to the hoof hardener, not the gel, and NEVER on the frog, and no more than once a week. No hoof bondo, or fake hoof stuff, because you could seal in some nasty bacteria. No bleach, no hydrogen peroxide, and no heavy metals, like copper (Koppertox- bad juju). Those dry out the soles and can damage surrounding healthy tissue. Try to steer toward more natural products, if at all possible. The less harsh chemicals on or in her body right now the better. Anything else could be toxic or do more damage than good. You can spray her soles daily with apple cider vinegar once she'll let you lift them. They probably hurt pretty bad right now. FIRE your farrier, especially if he tried to nail a shoe to that poor girl's feet. No more shoes, no more farriers, ever. It's just not healthy. It is imperative that you Find a Natural Barefoot Trimmer as soon as you can. Google it. I found one that travels three hours to Virginia Beach for my geldings. Read anything and everything you can by PETE RAMEY and JAIME JACKSON. Most of their information is on their websites. Study safergrass.org, even though you may not be able to change her current environment or your situation right away. Google barefoot horse care and read everything, even in Austrailia. NO pelleted feed, NO grain, NO alfalfa, and especially NO supplements of any kind unless you've had her pasture and/or hay tested and know exactly what she needs or doesn't need. You will either over-supplement or under-supplement, and each is potentially dangerous, especially for a horse is already stressed. NO more bute, oral medications just compound the problem for her. Both of you have a long, tough road ahead, but your natural barefoot trimmer and your new-found knowledge of horse care will get you there. It sounds like you have a real sweetheart there, and she deserves the best care possible. Bless her heart, and yours. Good luck, our prayers and positive thoughts are with you and your girl!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I know this is an old post but I am concerned about the delamination I am seeing. Did the ferrier say anything about your horse having white line disease? Sure looks like a bad case. How have they been doing?


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## Shalani (Jul 16, 2009)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> I am gonna have to disagree with Equestruin in this case!
> 
> It is good for a horse to stand in mud for certian amounts of time and it will not make the hooves dry and brittle the exact opposite actually. A horse needs to take in some moisture thru the hoofs (that is where the mud comes in) However they shouldn't be standing in mud all the time because then they will develop thrush.
> 
> ...


Im sorry but a horse with feet as damaged as this ones should not be in the mud period! You risk infections like seedy toe & greasy heel in horses with great feet let alone this one.... an infection will take hold very quickly and cause a huge amount of damage ! It will slow her founder recovery too. Get her on some grass and use a grazing muzzle.

Ps If you have a nice grrassy paddock and it has been raining the ground will be soft..... Common sense really. 

Best of luck


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## Shalani (Jul 16, 2009)

hotreddun said:


> What I would do...with the info you've given me...
> 
> 1) Nutrition nutrition nutrition. She needs lots of good grass hay (soaked maybe since she is a founder case), and a good mineral pellet. Those grooves in her hooves are mineral deficiencies. I LOVE ADM Stay Strong. I switched over to it 2 months ago and my older IR, chronic laminitis gelding LOVES them and looks fantastic. They are great little pellets that have lots of good minerals, vitamins, and are extremely low starch/sugar. I would also use Omega Horseshine (ground stabilized flax) because if she's not on grass she is not getting her fatty acids.
> 
> ...


ACV is fantastic for so many things ! I have used it on my girls for seedy toe aka white wall and it worked !! also for rain scald!


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## tfarms (Nov 3, 2009)

Have you ever heard of the product HS-35? Absolutely wonderful horse supplement. I would definately put this horse on it. It's great you're adding biotin but that alone will not do it. You need a balance of trace minerals also. The forms of minerals are most important too. This supplement contains proteinate forms of zinc, copper & manganese which are the best you can buy. It's hard to find a supplement with this quality in forms you know the horse can utilize. I don't know if HS-35 is available in your area, but from the brochure I have on it, you could contact [email protected] or call 1-888-875-2425.


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