# L-Thyroxine for laminitis?



## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

My horse was diagnosed with Equine Metabolic Syndrome and is tender/sore in the front. He is an 18 year old overweight arabian, I board him and it's a constant struggle to keep him at a healthy weight.

I had the vet out today and he took him off all grain and is putting him on l-thyroxine for weight loss.

Does anyone have any experience with this?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Afraid I haven't heard of using this for EMS/IR, though I have heard of some PPID(Cushings) horses responding to it.

It's a hormone to regulate the thyroid. If the thyroid is not working efficiently it can help weightloss(in people - have no horse-specific info on that), but if the thyroid is healthy, it will be ineffective.

Extra magnesium in the diet helps regulate the metabolism & helps dissolve adipose tissue(fat pads) that develop from IR. I have also heard(but haven't done any study into it yet) of people having good results with Chia seeds for weightloss on 'air fern' types. Chasteberry is another thing that many have found effective with PPID, but has also apparently been used with success for IR/EMS horses, though this is something I have had no personal experience with & another thing I haven't looked into further.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Ditto what Loosie said but I might take that a few paragraphs further:

I know that, once the horse is started on Thryo-L (L-Thyroxine), it is NOT a permanent thing. It's use on IR or EMS horses is to get them to lose weight when absolutely nothing else has worked.

Also, did the vet tell you the horse has to be backed of Thyro-L gradually? The drug *cannot* be stopped "cold turkey". Just like when Prednisone is given to dogs with certain types of allergies, the Prednisone dose is gradually reduced until the dog is completely off it.

A good friend had a Paso Fino with Cushings and Insulin Resistance. She battled the weight issue with him for three years -- dry lot, taping the grazing hole shut so he couldn't eat the tree leaves -- just everything.

She finally had to put the horse on Thryo-L and it did the trick. I THINK the horse was only on Thyro-L for 2 - 3 months; it was a short time.

My point to all that is Thryo-L is not meant to be given to metabolic horses long-term and *where IR and EMS are concerned, it is the last resort* to get the horse to lose weight.

The vet is absolutely correct on NO GRAIN. Don't even feed a ration balancer with soy in it. If this is your only horse, you may have to lay out a gawrsh-awful amount of money and buy EquiPride ($60/50 lb bag:-(

EquiPride is a complete vit/min supplement with a pre-probiotic that is soy-free.

Horse equine ? EquiPride and EquiLix Don't buy the lick (well you can't because you board) but anyway, buying the lick means you can't control what the horse eats. *The daily feeding amount is only ten ounces.* You could buy straight timothy pellets and mix a dry pound of timothy pellets with the EquiPride. It is a taste that some horse like and others don't care much for. 

Tractor Supply carries Standlees timothy pellets; they come in a nuclear lime green bag - lol Make sure you don't come home with the alfalfa pellets.

I suggest this approach because I have two metabolic horses; one with insulin resistance and the other with Equine Metabolic Syndrome.

Oddly enough the EMS caused that horse to drop weight; he went from an air fern to a hard keeper in less than six weeks, once the EMS exploded. That was five years ago.

Unless the BO is willing to bend over backward and do handstands, you're in a really tough situation with your horse. It absolutely needs special care and there's no margin for error<---meaning nobody should be slipping it horse treats because they feel sorry for it.

Your horse is foot-sore right now because Fall grass is every bit, or more, dangerous than Spring grass. My EMS horse amazingly has never even had a laminitis attack and does not wear a grazing muzzle; He gets blood drawn twice yearly. My EMS horse is on chastetree and it's working however, chastetree does not work on the IR horse.

The IR horse is the air fern and his insulin spikes just looking at a blade of grass. He foundered really bad last March because I didn't get the muzzle on him in time. He is STILL going out to pasture wearing a muzzle and will continue to wear one until the daytime temps are cold enough to freeze his nose hairs to the muzzle:-shock: 

My IR horse is on Chia Seeds. They work for him but the horse needs closely monitored when on chia seeds; I noticed this horse went from being a slathery sweat hog in the summer to not sweating at all. I cut the chia seeds waaay back and he started sweating again. He has lost enough weight that I can now feel his ribs if I press. Trouble with the Chia seeds is he doesn't like the taste of them so I only give him 1/8th cup; that's ok with winter coming but I'm going to have to feed him three times a day once Spring gets here.

Then there's the possibility of ulcers developing but I think I've already over-whelmed you.

Just an FYI that Arabs are right at the top of the "Predisposed List" for metabolic issues. 

Oddly my 26+ Arab is perfectly fine in that regard. It's my TWH's (also on that Predisposed List

I'll stop there but the bottom line is:

1. NO GRAIN whatsoever.

2. Try to get her on a soy-free product like EquiPride.

McCauley's M-10 Balancer is also soy-free. I have tried this on one horse and he eats it without issue. McCauley's® M10 Balancer

3. Grazing muzzle for pasture turnout. If she goes in a drylot with a free access to a roundbale that needs to be stopped. She needs hay but it needs to be weighed.

3.1 Buy a slow-feed hay net for her stall, so she can pick all night as opposed to chugging everything down at once.

4. Nothing but quality weed-free grass hay; NO legume hays such as alfalfa.

5. WHITE salt, no trace mineral salts.

This is more than "a few paragraphs further" and I didn't address the founder issues. You're dealing with a very serious issue that will never go away. IR and EMS are the same as Type II Diabetes in humans; they can be controlled but will always be there:-(


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## 2SCHorses (Jun 18, 2011)

Ditto on what WalkintheWalk and loosie said. I have an IR mare, too. She is on only 2 ounces of vitamins, Animed Remission and hay/limited turnout with a grazing muzzle. The only 'treats' I give her are those Standlee Mini Hay cubes, which is just compressed low NSC hay. She gets absolutely no oats or grain. If you are conscientious, it can be well managed. I ride my mare a lot, too, and sometimes even take her jogging with me to keep her fit.

The Thyro-L is to help your horse lose weight faster (kind of like diet pills for people, I guess). It's true you need to wean the horse off of it. The magnesium supplement is great to help with IR. I use Animed Remission for my mare because it has Magnesium, Chromium, several hoof supplements AND pre/probiotics in one product, which has been amazing for her health. I have seem a lot of improvement using that particular product, but there are others out there that do similar things, but I like the price of the Remission and she is such a pig she will eat it sprinkled on her vitamins.

For me, keeping her with her grazing muzzle on limited pasture turnout works well. When it is winter like now and I have no pasture, I just keep her on limited hay a few times a day. I don't have to worry about her, in particular, gorging on the hay because she is, thankfully, lowest in the herd, so she usually gets chased off her hay before it is gone and she doesn't get as much. But if your horse is higher up, then you probably should keep your horse separate and use a slow feeder.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Wow, lots of info.
The vet mentioned he might be on l-thyroxine forever, because if I take him off he might gain back...but last winter he was really thin...so I'm confused and annoyed.

I'm also wondering why he didn't put him on something for the laminitis, like bute or previcox.

Fortunately I have access to dry lot, he already has a slow feed hay net, and he's getting beet pulp in the evening just to get his supplements/meds down. However, I think it might have molasses in it. I have to ask the Barn Owner.

He's on Equi-Shine, don't know if that's similar to equi-pride, will look into it, a joint supplement, total calm and focus, and omega horse shine (flax).


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Pretty much all has been said already, I just would like to add a few little things.
He needs to have food all the time to avoid spikes in insulin, you're doing that with the slowfeeder net already. Depending on what hay he is getting, you might need to wash it to get even more sugars out. Just hang the net in a tub of cold water for an hour or warm water for 30 minutes, drain, and feed. A good percentage of sugar washes out. 
Then with the "shine" supplements. They are usually high in fat, and if he's already overweight, adding extra fat certainly doesn't make him drop weight. So I'd use only one of them. I know only the Omega Horseshine, and like and use it, so that is find, minimum recommended amount. 
As for the painkiller and other med's, I would avoid them, since his system is already upside down, no need to add another substance. Important is the proper hoofcare. Avoid long toe, barefoot is preferred, but I think loosie can tell you more about it.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I board, so I can't soak his hay...but the hay is terrible quality grass hay. :/


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Terrible quality in sense of long, stemmy, rained on or moldy and dusty?
Katy Watts | Safergrass.org has a wealth of info on grass, hay, grazing and IR in general. Well worth the time. 
IR and laminitis is a very complex condition and a lot of factors contribute to the outcome. Read all you can, learn as much as possible and do what's necessary. It can be kept in check, and it's not hard once you have it all figured out. It all comes down to nutrition, hoofcare and exercise. 
Been there, done that and got the T-shirt. And, I prefer a hard keeper over an easy keeper anytime.....its much easier to add than to take away;-)


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I am also worried about riding/hurting his feet...thoughts?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

That depends on how sore he is. Is he shod or barefoot. How do his feet look, is he due for a trim. Are his feet hot. (See, again, the many factors;-)). Is he moving around, just standing or is he down a lot?


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

If you're thoroughly confused by now, and you think those of us with metabolic horses seem to sound iffy with a lot of variable information, that is because of that Gray Area word "metabolism".

Just like people have different metabolisms, so do horses. What works wonderfully on one horse can be a dismal failure on another.

What they all have in common is to keep the sugars and starches of the entire diet as low as possible. That means 99% of them get nothing but grass hay; some are ok with pasture time and a grazing muzzle, others are not.

Some can have a bit of alfalfa cubes mixed in while alfalfa is "founder in five minutes" for the next horse. My EMS horse gets one pound of timothy/alfalfa cubes and thrives on it BUT he is 25 and needs that extra protein/amino acids for his muscle health.

My IR horse is so founder sensitive, he isn't even allowed to smell the alfalfa cubes. I am such an anal idiot that I turn my back to him as I pass his stall with the soaked alfalfa cubes, to give to my 25 yr old. Once in awhile I even tell him not to breath

You do need to stay on top of your horse's hooves. For some reason, metabolic hooves tend to grow faster than normal hooves. My horses are trimmed every four weeks - everyone is barefoot - the foundered horse has been going out to pasture, since last March, wearing boots and Lily pads - every stinkin' rotten day. I wash those d**n boots with warm water and Dawn Dish soap every night to help prevent any hoof issues. The boots/pads don't go on his hooves until I have throughly picked & brushed them.

I mention the boots as that could be a solution in helping with the sore hooves but, only if someone is willing to learn how to properly put them on, then take them off every night. EasyCare's boots can't be left on more than 12 hours; my horse is out 8 - 10 hours every day then in a stall with 12 inches of limestone crush, grid mats, shavings on top of that.

If you decide on boots, PLEASE have a professional trimmer (or your vet) help size the horse. I would have messed up royally if I'd tried to figure that out by myself. Not only the wrong size boots but the wrong style for his hoof shape.

I know we are all throwing a lot at you, you may want to start a folder on your PC for all this information. Either save the link to this thread to it or copy/paste things into a word document, then save them. You can always print stuff off and use it for your bedtime reading - lol lol lol

I'm chuckling at that but the issue itself isn't funny. My 25 yo was diagnosed with EMS in May, 2007. I did not ride one time that year as I spent the rest of that year in front of this miserable computer researching until my eyeballs looked like road maps to anywhere the car needed an oil change after it got there:-(

We are all trying to help save you some of that initial stress and at least point you in the right directions.

www.ecirhorse.com is one of them that would be beneficial to you 

Mill Creek Veterinary Service - Fort Collins, CO talks about Equine Metabolic Syndrome, a/k/a Peripheral Cushings although I never did understand that comparison:?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Hi,

As Desert has said, I agree that it's best to avoid bute etc where possible. Perhaps the vet understands the 'side effects' better than some vets who would throw bute at any remotely laminitic horse. Perhaps your horse isn't too bad & with feed change & soft footing the vet thought that was all that was required. 

As said, I don't have any experience with the drug that was given, only some basic theory on it, but if it is a general thing that Walkin has said, that it's a 'last resort' & should only be short-term, possibly your vet doesn't know as much about that one. If it's been such a battle to control his weight, I don't get why he was on any grain, but removing that & feeding soaked hay(unless it's tested as low NSC) is what my first line of defense would be. 

So if the horse is tender footed & currently laminitic, not forcing any exercise & keeping him on yielding footing is important until he's over the 'attack' at least. This is usually relatively short lived, depending on the cause & management. After that, it will depend on hoof form as much as anything as to whether you can ride/work him.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Ok sorry. No heat in the feet, he moves around a lot, he was playing with the other horses today (running around). He's standing a lot, he only lays down at night for a little bit.

He is barefoot and always has been. Today the vet said he didn't want him on bute because he wants me to watch for improvements.
Quote: No pain killer. He is not that bad. You want to be able to tell if he is getting better. 

I have an awesome farrier who has worked with foundered horses quite a bit. I am going to have him out as soon as I can.

Thanks again for all of this great help. I appreciate it so very much.

I am overwhelmed and sad.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

No need to be sad, at all. You're much better off with a good vet and an experienced farrier. Some of us here had to do the trial and error thing, and had to learn all by ourselves. 
Your main goal now is to get him to a healthy weight. 
You could talk to your vet again and ask if it was possible to try without thyroid meds first. Remission, or other IR supplements together with a new diet, might do the trick. Lots if exercise, like running and playing with his buddies PLUS riding or longing should get him down in weight fairly quick. 
See it that way, you HAVE a horse you can exercise. Others are in pain and down and have to diet. Way harder.
So head up and make his little butt work, maybe get a ration balancer, the IR supplement and work from there


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I actually already started him on the l-thyroxine.

Thank you for making me feel better, Desert. 

Doc said no riding right now, but lunging is ok.
We also have a nice roundpen and access to some good hills, and he can drive...I don't have a cart or anything but I was thinking about ground driving him around the property.

Even thin, he is a big arab (aladdinn/hal gazal lines), he's almost 15'3 and heavy boned. Not sure if this is good or bad.

Also should I trot him or just walk or? Walk him over ground poles? Walk him on the trails? Round pen?

So I grabbed nutrena's safe choice special care just to throw a handful in to get his supplements and meds down. I will eventually switch that to the Progressive Ration Balancer and just give him a handful of that, replace the equishine with equipride, etc. Any other ideas?
Soaking hay is out of the question, my Barn Owner won't do it...they were irritated with the hay net. The hay varies because it is so hard to get.
Some of the horses get a round bale, but Brandon's group does not. I kind of think it's uncool that I pay as much as the people who have horses on a round bale and their grain, and I buy my own grain, so he just gets hay flakes 2x a day. :/ Our board just went up due to feed costs.

Ok sorry for the rant/thinking out loud.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

It IS uncool. If you were in my barn, I'd be more than happy to soak your hay, if you would do it whenever possible(we say "one hand washes the other"), and I would either get the feed he needs or take some off the board. But that's just me...
As for working him, trot would be nice, but straight, and steady. Ground driving is good, but if you do this trotting, you'll be dieting too
Don't know how your paddock situation is, but encouraging movement is always good. Like hay on one end, water on the opposite. 
If he is sore to where you can see it, some boots, like easyboots or renegades might be of help for exercising him. 

Would like to see a confo shot of your boy, since mine has Aladinn too


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

spookychick13 said:


> I Also should I trot him or just walk or? Walk him over ground poles? Walk him on the trails? Round pen?*I would just walk him. If he is foot-sore, I really would consider buying him boots for his exerise times and not Cavallos. Nothing against them for trail riding but, believe me, they suck big time for rehabbing a foundered horse; I learned that lesson the hard way:-(*
> 
> So I grabbed nutrena's safe choice special care just to throw a handful in to get his supplements and meds down. I will eventually switch that to the Progressive Ration Balancer and just give him a handful of that, replace the equishine with equipride, etc. Any other ideas?*Too much of a good thing. You're doubling up on vit/min by feeding him any sort of ration balancer on top fo the EquiPride. Stick with the EquiPride and none of the other things, IF you can get EquiPride. Reason being it only takes 10 ounces daily of EquiPride for a horse to get all it's vitamins/minerals; it also has a pre-probiotic in it. Even at that miserable $60/50 lb bag, that is still cheap. *


*I think 50 pounds equal 800 ounces so that means one bag of EquiPride would last you 80 days. That breaks down to 75 cents per day to feed the best product on the market a metabolic horse can have. *

*Plus EquiPride is soy-free. Nothing made by Nutrena or Progressive is soy-free.*

*Some horses aren't fond of the taste of EquiPride, you could add half cup of timothy pellets. I was going to say add some water but the Barn People are feeding for you aren't they? *


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

What boots would you recommend?

I'm confused about Equipride...is it a ration balancer or a supplement?
One of the women at our barn feeds equipride, I could ask her to try a handful.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I'll let loosie elaborate on the boots, she has more experience whith which brand fits what hoof shape the best


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Alright, I will finish up or sell the rest of my equishine and get him on equipride.
Today we took a long walk on a lead rope around the pastures.
He wanted to eat the fabulous grass we were talking on, but I obviously didn't let him.

I thought hand walking would be good for him.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

It is. 
How is he living currently, stalled with turnout? 
All out would be better for him, but a diet paddock, not pasture, obviously.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

He is out 12 hours, in 12 hours. :/
I live in WI and the dirt lots get torn up/hard in the winter.

I don't think pasture board is an option, I think it is full right now.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Well, 12 and 12 is good, considering the weather. Pastureboard I wouldn't consider for a long time, so I'd try to work on a dry lot solution for the summer. Too bad you are so far away from me....I have room and 5 acres dry lot....;-)


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

<sigh and banging head> I just deleted my entire post

EquiPride is a top dress that's a complete supplement. That is also what ration balancers are, except most of those have grain in them. You would be doubling your horse's needs if you fed both.

Horse equine ? EquiPride and EquiLix

You will see "distillers grains" in the ingredients. That's perfectly fine. It means the whiskey makers took all the sugars & starches from the corn, then re-sold the "dried" corn to feed makers.

See if the lady with the EquiPride will sell you ten pounds. That should last around 16 days??? and give you enough time to see if your horse will adjust to it. Hard keepers can have rice bran added to deflect the taste; easy keepers can have one measuring cup of timothy pellets added.

EquiPride is something that More is NOT better". It says to feed ten ounces daily (five ounces twice a day). Stick to that and no more. Buy yourself a plastic measuring cup from WalMart that has ounces and cup increments on it so you don't overfeed. Believe me ten ounces a day is all it takes.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

On another forum, someone suggested 'Remission' by Animed to me. Thoughts on this?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I think I mentioned it when I suggested to ask Doc if it was possiple without the thyroid Med....I would ask if it's ok with the Med together.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I already started him on the l-thyroxine that day. :/ It's making him Bajiggity.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

And your vet says he might have to stay on it forever......:-(
I would seriously ask if it was possible to try with an IR supplement.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

JMHO but I really disagree with "forever" on the Thyrol-L. That is old school --- 20 years ago old school:-(

Here's a veterinary website that you could possibly call them and ask about "forever".

Equine Metabolic Syndrome

Where it says in part:



> *DRUG THERAPY- Most horses or ponies with EMS can be effectively managed by controlling their diet, instituting an exercise program, and limiting or eliminating access to pasture. However, there are times when these strategies will not improve the situation fast enough to prevent additional episodes of laminitis. In these situations, drug therapy is warranted to lower the likelihood of subsequent laminitis episodes that could cause permanent damage to the feet. Weight loss can be accelerated and insulin sensitivity improved by administering levothyroxine sodium (Thyro L®, Lloyd, Inc., Shenandoah, Iowa) in the feed at a dosage of 48 mg /day for 3 to 6 months, which is equivalent to 4 teaspoons (tsp) per day. *
> *When levothyroxine treatment is discontinued, do not stop abruptly. Horses should be weaned off the drug by lowering the dosage to 24 mg (2 tsp)/day for 2 weeks and then 1 tsp (12 mg)/day for 2 weeks.*


 

I would not run my vet thru the cheese shredder but simply say you aren't comfortable with his "forever" determination and others with EMS or IR horses have told you their understanding is that Thyro-L is short-term only.

You're not out anything but a phone call and I would also add that your horse is now "bajiggity" since starting the drug. Nice word, by the way, I'm going to steal it, if that's ok

EDITED TO ADD: almost forgot, Medi-vet has a warning on their purchase site: https://www.medi-vet.com/prod-Thyro_L_for_Horses,_1_lb_Powder-4390.aspx 

*



Warning: Administer with caution to animals with clinically significant heart disease, hypertension or other complications for which a sharply increased metabolic rate might prove hazardous. Use in pregnant mares has not been evaluated.

Click to expand...

*


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

He said 'forever' because he was worried about him gaining it all back when I phase him off of it...that is all. I will discuss backing him off when/if he loses weight.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Talk to him. I think you know now what to do and what to look for, so there shouldn't be any further problem once he's down to normal weight.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Definitely, thank you all so much for the help.
Honestly this year has been one kick in the teeth after the other...this was the icing on the cake.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

It's almost over;-)
You are very lucky in several aspects, trust me. I wish I have had at least a vet with knowledge when my mare foundered . Let alone a farrier.
I didn't have this forum either. 
To see what folks here are capable of, go to the health section and search for "need help please" by Okan. Its pretty long, and still going, so you need a little time.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

You're right, it's not so bad...though I think it's been going on for weeks to be honest. It started right after he was vaccinated, I thought he was sore in the neck/poll from that.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You know, now that you say that....my mare just had had her flu shot, had a bad reaction to it, full blown flu, and shortly after she became sore......since it's a metabolic disease, I sometimes wonder....


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> You know, now that you say that....my mare just had had her flu shot, had a bad reaction to it, full blown flu, and shortly after she became sore......since it's a metabolic disease, I sometimes wonder....



That's why my vet won't give my metabolic horses shots anymore:shock:


He did give everyone a rabies shot in 2011 and believe me, it was with more than "some trepidation". He did not want to vaccinate the metabolic guys; especially since the 25 yr old always has been drug sensitive and is worse now. He will have a reaction to Bute:shock:


We had two horses and a mule get bit and die on their own farms from rabies, in the NW portion of the county. 25 - 30 miles isn't too far where rabies is concerned.


The vet vaccinated my 25 yr old in the butt to help reduce "travel time" of the vaccine, so-to-speak. The vet also stayed a good 30 minutes extra to watch Duke because Duke did, indeed, have a reaction:-(


All Duke had was the punies and thankfully no laminitis issues.


Thankfully my herd is considered isolated due to where we live and I don't trailer anyone to ride anymore so noone gets anything anymore, unless the vet says "I really think ---------" as he did with the rabies shots. His philosophy is that less is more unless my horses would be traveling like they used to.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I agree. Especially with all the hype now with WNV. My neighbor has a small herd of Aztecas. Out on 160acres, bordering the wetlands. Never vaccinates. Horses are as sound as can be. He just now started to bring some hay in to get them ""tame"...other than that, they live off the non-irrigated "pasture", together with 25 cows. They are skinny by the end of winter, catch up quickly once grass comes in, stay fat and shiny well into December, and have no problems with that lifestyle. Makes me wonder how much we overdo everything, seriously.
When I was in Italy, where my mare foundered, I didn't dare doing the flu/tetanus shots, after she got so sick from it, and couldn't find tetanus shots only. They just don't have them. So I ended up not vaccinating them for 6 years. NEVER any problems. 
They were a closed group, never in close contact with the travelling horses, and were vaccinated earlier in life. Makes me think that immunity lasts a lot longer than we're made to believe. And that, given a chance, they develop immunity to certain diseases too. 
Certainly food for thought.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Makes me think that immunity lasts a lot longer than we're made to believe. And that, given a chance, they develop immunity to certain diseases too.
> Certainly food for thought.


I don't want to morph the OP's thread too far OT but further to your thoughts:

I asked my vet about testing my 25 yr old for titre levels (this was before the 17 yr old was diagnosed) and his response was not to waste my money:shock:

The reason for that was the pure fact this horse IS metabolic and his immune system has, indeed been compromised.

The vet further explained that Duke could have the highest titre levels (highest safety level) in the herd and still be the first horse to develop a disease he's been vaccinated against. Reason-being the metabolic issues have compromised his immune system.

Still-in-all he's dead against vaccinating this horse because #1, he's a mid-20's horse whose always had his shots and was healthier/stronger than ten horses until the metabolic issues took over.

#2, as we've been discussing, are the metabolic issues in combination with age. 

The whole thing puts a new twist and meaning on "Catch-22" :?:?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Different horses will react in different ways to all things so what works for one may ot work for another
If Thyroxene is for a thyroid hypothyroidism then it is a permanent thing but a lot of vets do use it as a short term treatment for laminitis thats IRS linked, like anything that affects the bodies metabolism it should be reduced gradually though
My own vet had such great results with chromium on a laminitic IRS pony he adopted to save from being put down that he suggested it to me for my IRS mare, I now feed it to her as Quiessence which is a magnesium chromium supplement. Once a horse is full blown IRS as mine is they have more trouble keeping weight on then they do losing it - in the same way as diabetic person does The horses develop abnormal fatty deposits but dont keep good healthy condition so well because their insulin isnt working the way it should
My horse is no longer laminitic in the sense of the word though she was a really severe case and very close to being euthanised, her soles arent dropped any more - now concave. I did have her shod for the first few years to protect her as the pedal bones were still at risk and her soles still lower than normal but she is now sound barefoot.
She is treated the same as my other horses, I restrict grazing for them all now as a precaution but they go out daily on acreage and I balance that with time in the stable
I feed her Sentinel senior (Blue Seal) and add non molassed sugar beet to it - its never given her any problems
She also has all her shots annually and never had a bad reaction to those either


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I definitely don't think it was coincidence that his episode started after the shot. How could it be?

It sucks though, since Brandon is only 18, I do ride him on trails and trailer him around. :/ Then again, who knows what his feet are going to be like after this?

A very good friend of mine who now lives out of state suggested Soft Ride boots and Farrier's Formula Double Strength.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Oops double post, sorry.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

It's not really off topic, considering what I just read last night on another forum about a new drug for laminitis. It's a painkiller/anti-inflammatory without the nasty side effects of bute. What caught my eye was that researchers had different set ups, treated different symptoms at a time, and not one single horse was sound afterwards, new drug or not. Some of the treatment regimens made the horse better for a while, just to have another, worse flare -up. Goes to show you how complex a condition it is. 
My mare, after her vaccine, developed COPD, desperately needed cortisone, but we couldn't do it, since it can cause laminitis. I eventually lost her to COPD, her laminitis being in check. 
If I would have known what I know now, she still could be alive. 

Makes me wonder if it wouldn't be better to come back to nature and let horses live like horses, let them become strong on their own, without much interference from certain standard treatments. We know that there is resistance to certain drugs, mainly from overuse, and slowly slowly minds change on deworming, for example. 
Not to say a veterinary treatment has it's place, by all means, but sometimes less is more...
With that in mind, what my neighbor does is absolute natural, and he doesn't have laminitic horses, even tho they are quite fat in summer. It seems to balance out with the meager winters and constant movement. 
Some people might call what he does neglect, for sure, I was the first to do so, when I saw it. But it for sure made me think.
These horses eat native grasses, some weeds, lick the soil in certain spots, travel a lot between good food and the water source, are exposed to the elements, heat being the worst, not a single tree in pasture. What do we do? Designer hay, highly nutritious, grain, turnout limited, wrapped in blankets......
I've decided to not up my horse's hay this winter, so my blimp can downsize a little, and what my mare might be lacking I rather make up with alfalfa pellets. I, due to not having plain grass hay available, got oat, 3-way, orchard and a little alfalfa, for diversity, have calculated the amount of each needed(they compliment each other nicely, btw), give a ration balancer, a little less than recommended because they get a lot out of the hay alone, salt and water. Out 24/7, shelter, which they use only to get away from the bugs. Blimp is already a bit trimmer


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Is it previcox (equioxx)?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

spookychick13 said:


> I definitely don't think it was coincidence that his episode started after the shot. How could it be?
> 
> It sucks though, since Brandon is only 18, I do ride him on trails and trailer him around. :/ Then again, who knows what his feet are going to be like after this?
> 
> A very good friend of mine who now lives out of state suggested Soft Ride boots and Farrier's Formula Double Strength.


 With the right trim, his feet should be fine. 
Farrier's formula will help growing nice strong feet. But balanced nutrition and the Omega Horseshine (love that stuff!), will do the same. 
For boots, I was told by several people that certain brands fit certain hoof shapes better than others. That's why I suggested asking loosie, she has more experience with that, being a barefoot specialist. 
With him being trailered out a lot, some vaccines are necessary. But it might be a good idea to not use the multiple ones, rather like flu and tetanus, then a couple of weeks later rabies, and so on, as to not overwhelm his system.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

spookychick13 said:


> Is it previcox (equioxx)?


I didn't read the article about it, only the discussion around it, but it's possible. Tho, Equioxx is not that new anymore.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

No, but people use previcox off label because it is cheaper (it's for dogs). I thought perhaps that is what they were referring to.

I worked as a small animal vet tech for years.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I'll try to find the thread and read the article ;-)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Toxins in the bloodstream can cause laminitis which is why things like Lymes can trigger it and the small amount of toxin in the shot your horse had could have tipped him over the edge. The problem there is that if such a small amount that they use in a shot to maintain immunity could do that how badly is he going to be affected if he gets the real thing?
All horses react in different ways which is what makes laminitis such a difficult complex thing to deal with
Its been long established that steroids will cause a laminitis attack and as they suppress the immune system there has to be a connection with that and horses with IRS having a compromised immune system probably because Insulin production is essential for enabling glucose and glucose is vital for cell renewal and defence against infections and IRS horses dont produce effective insulin as for some reason they've developed an over active response where they produce way more than they need but it doesnt work properly
There are tons of papers on these things and unless you have a scientific brain they can send you on information overload!!!
The mare I have that is IRS is 21 - She is also slightly arthritic and has good and bad spells of that from time to time and I then have her on Previcox for quite long periods to keep her comfortable. Its never caused her to have a laminitis attack. I had her on Naproxin prior to that and again - no laminitis but it did cause ulcers.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Here is the link:
Futurity.org – New inflammation drug may spare horses

For the whole thread, which has tons of info and links, please PM me


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Here is the link:
> Futurity.org – New inflammation drug may spare horses
> 
> For the whole thread, which has tons of info and links, please PM me


 Unfortunately the drug still hasnt gotten into the clinical trials stage yet and that can mean 4 years to just get it into the registration process and it could fall at any hurdle on the way there which happens a lot - my husband is a Global Head of R&D and so many really good products get dropped because of small problems that crop up or the costs of research & production outweigh the potential profits - which is all the big Pharma companies are interested in.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I know:-(
The EU even has yearly meetings to determine drug prices......what was that called again....uhm....monopoly....yeah, that's it.........


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I know:-(
> The EU even has yearly meetings to determine drug prices......what was that called again....uhm....monopoly....yeah, that's it.........


 The EU is now probably the hardest place to get any thing approved, it takes on average 3 years longer so ups the costs by even more.
One miniscule whiff of cancer in lab rat thats been dosed with massively extreme amounts and thats enough to stop a project dead - and all the time existing drugs and applications are being put under the microscope too. To prove that the benefits outweigh the risks is getting harder
Meds for animals is not so bad but they still have to address the risks of people handling them and what happens when they get in contact with soil and water - especially water so if the horse pees out the substance and that proves to be a slight risk of getting into watercourses its likely to get panned
Interesting to follow though as could be a new hope


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Back OT kinda, I wanted to post some pics of Brandon, he's not particularly cresty or anything...:/ I did notice his back was looking more dropped lately, but he is 18..however it might just be that his belly is huge and his butt is fatty.
He is the one on the right in the first pic.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

What a beautiful eye!!!
From what I see on the pic with the "hanging" back, he doesn't look too bad, like you said, no cresty neck. Belly, yeah, but that might as well be from the low quality hay. He can stand to shed some weight, but I am not so convinced the meds are really necessary. IMO, tho. 
Maybe scratching the grain and switching to a ration balancer would be enough. Hard to say from a pic, but that's what it looks like to me.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

We tried the ration balancer route. Not one pound was shed. Hehe. Stupid thrifty gene.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

He needs to work then


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Yeah, more work. I might have to find someone else to ride him in addition to my riding. Meh. We were working pretty hard, but then he got sore.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You have to listen to your vet but I'm inclined to agree with deserthorsewoman - he doesnt look like he has a weight problem - though so saying neither did my mare when she got IR and she was never what you'd call an easy keeper as always so energetic she worked it off just bouncing along all the time
Our ID who is permanently on thyroxene has hypothydroidism and when she developed it piled on huge amounts of weight especially around where the neck & head meet regardless of how she was fed or worked and she also got very lethargic. Shes now back to her normal self, I wish we'd thought to get her tested when we first saw a change in her instead of blaming it on diet and getting older


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Come to think of it, I had a Hafi-New Forest mix, way before the time IR was even recognized. He had big, flat feet, was very overweight when we got him, but never foundered. He was very cresty, had fat patches everywhere, a raingutter on his back and a hole, where the withers would be. Apart from literally starving him, he wouldn't shed an ounce, on hay, grass hay, only. When I started giving him a handful of oats, due to throwing all horses together and him not feeling deprived, he started shedding weight. He was more energetic, would play all day long and eventually looked like a horse, not like a greaseball. 
Made me wonder....


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## 2SCHorses (Jun 18, 2011)

I am writing back because somewhere I read you were considering Animed Remission. I do love this product for my IR mare. She gets a full ounce instead of the 1/2 because she needs the extra magnesium, but her feet are so much better as well as her body. She only gets a full spectrum vitamin as well (Millennium Gold) and hay/grazing muzzle some grass. Otherwise, she gets exercised 4X a week vigorously (a long session in the arena or a 3 hour trail ride with a lot of trotting). This can be managed. She is a great mare and I sure love her as she is awesome on the trail, but I do check her feet. She wears Cavallos, and I know some people don't like them, but the Sport Boots fit her really well with the pastern wraps. We weren't able to afford the Renegades at the time, but I do like the Cavallos for what she does. I measured her foot several times and took the averages from just trimmed to just before trimmed and then purchased the size. I was careful to get a lot of measurements. Be sure to clean your IR horses feet daily and I recommend spraying with ACV daily as IR horses have lowered immune systems and thrush can become a problem if the hoof isn't clean or dry. Many horses do fine with a daily cleaning, but IR horses need something more because they are more susceptible to infection. I find that a daily dose of ACV on the hooves keeps them hard and strong and infection free.

I know there is SO much info. Once, when I was in grad school waaaay back when, I had an instructor (it was a teaching program) that, whenever I asked a question, she would answer: "It depends." I swear, I had visions of murdering her in her sleep sometimes it was soooo frustrating. But she was RIGHT. It does depend. And every single IR horse is different. I strongly suggest to keep a journal of what you are doing and chart whether or not it is working. For my mare, only vitamins and Animed Remission is the key that helps along with a LOT of exercise. But every horse is different ... so - it depends.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I've been looking on other forums, and in general, the majority says Remission works in reducing the fat deposits, along with proper diet and exercise, obviously. I think I will give it a try on my blimp, too. For AVOIDING further problems......


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Farrier says we might have to shoe/pad him.
Thoughts?

He's been barefoot his whole life...I'm not a huge shoe fan...but...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

My mare was initially shod with support bars and a gel type padding that was held into the sole of her foot with a mesh support
Personally I think it made her worse but the insurance was footing the bills so I had to work with their guidelines. She was shod for work as we lived in an area of very sharp gritty lanes that were our only form of exercise of a menage or field so often 2 or 3 hours a day and without shoes she was getting abcesses all the time
We reached a point of giving up so decided to remove the shoes as nothing to lose and padded her feet with animalintex, foam, rubber cut into shape - anything to cushion and protect and held it in place with vetwrap and sileage tape, from then on she improved steadily until she was sound to ride again at which point I did originally have her shod as back to gritty roads though since we moved here she is barefoot again


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Thanks Jaydee.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

jaydee said:


> My mare was initially shod with support bars and a gel type padding that was held into the sole of her foot with a mesh support
> Personally I think it made her worse but the insurance was footing the bills so I had to work with their guidelines. She was shod for work as we lived in an area of very sharp gritty lanes that were our only form of exercise of a menage or field so often 2 or 3 hours a day and without shoes she was getting abcesses all the time
> We reached a point of giving up so decided to remove the shoes as nothing to lose and padded her feet with animalintex, foam, rubber cut into shape - anything to cushion and protect and held it in place with vetwrap and sileage tape, from then on she improved steadily until she was sound to ride again at which point I did originally have her shod as back to gritty roads though since we moved here she is barefoot again


I think that's pretty good testimony for keeping your horse barefoot but with pads. There's a lot of materials to make your own pads with. The crucial thing is getting pad thickness correct - especially if you're only making partial pads (some form of Lily pad).

Depending how fresh the trim is, my horse wears 1/2" or 3/8" foam padding.

The 1/2" pads are made from those Gold's Gym workout mats that interlock, and you can buy them at WalMart.

The 3/8" pads are a closed/micro cell product that I buy from The Foam Factory, who has a website.

I tape the pads in the correct position on his hoof then put his Boa boots on him.

If you decide to use boots, buy boots that fit his hoof style and stay away from Cavallos. They are not a secure fitting boot when it comes to re-habbing hooves. They set my horse bad three days worth of lame:-( I'm not knockin' em from trail riding but they don't have the secure fit a foundered or abscessed hoof needs for walking around the pasture.

Boots can stay on a maximum of 12 hours daily. My horse comes in at night to a stall with grid mats and shavings so his hooves have time to get aired out from being in the boots all day.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

My barn won't even remove blankets and had a fit about his hay net, there is no way in F they will remove boots.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Another possibility would be hoof cast. Can be used with pads and stays on like a shoe, so no removing and putting on. It's like vetrap with cast material. Don't have the link, nut Google will find it. If your farrier would be willing to do this, it might be an option.
Also, for trimming, check out Bare Foot Horse
Go to "founder", to see how and why it needs to be trimmed this way. 
Is he still sore?


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

A quick word on Remission, Farrier's Formula, and ration balancers. The primary elements of a hoof supplement like Farrier's formula are biotin and methionine. Remission has the same amount of biotin as Farrier's Formula and also quite a bit of methionine. Equipride also contains biotin, though I'm not certain about the methionine. The Remission is WAY cheaper than Farrier's Formula while also providing the magnesium and chromium that your horse needs for metabolic support. I would start with the Remission and Equipride and skip the Farrier's Formula.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Thank you! He seems less sore, yes. I will try to keep shoes off, the farrier I use is really easy-going and open minded.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

If he is less sore already and is trimmed the way the website suggests he shouldn't need any protection. Important is that farrier doesn't trim the sole in front if the point of the frog and does a nice mustang roll, removing all eventual flares. If you plan on taking him on hard, uneven ground, then boots would be good. With the hoof cast I see a problem with mud, tho.


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## 2SCHorses (Jun 18, 2011)

If your BO is being a jerk about boots, it might be time for your to invest or rent "Under the Horse" and learn a little about doing your own trimming to keep his feet in good condition and with a roll to keep him managed if you cannot put on boots, though if the pasture is soft, he may not need boots - only if it is hard and rocky. There is a horse website for renting horsey DVDs ... I can't remember ... anyone? Anyone? Oh yes! It is giddyupflix.com. I am not sure if they have "Under the Horse" but they sure should! It might be worth your time to learn a bit on keeping up with his feet so you aren't always calling the farrier because, along with board, that can be expensive. Plus, if you find a problem, you are more able to address it right away.

Do you see your horse daily, or are you too far away? Will they custom feed your horse? I do think Remission will help. You should go to FeedXL.com and work up your horses feed so you can see what you are doing. If you are going to be consistent in keeping him on a low NSC diet, it would help to see what vitamins you are maybe overloading or underloading. Considering all the feeds you have, it may be good to have a balance sheet and then eliminate some feeds to keep your budget good. I do FeedXL for my mare, and it was very, very worth doing. She gets what she needs and I just joined for one month, so it was cost effective because I have her in consistent work. It might be worth your time and wallet to invest in a gander on FeedXL so you can figure out your feed and then not have to worry if he's deficient or overeating for his condition.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If you did pad your horse then they also need to be removed every night and are a lot harder to get off and on than a boot - though for me with a horse with very sore feet and a pedal bone in such a bad place it was essential - and we did try boots but although they protect the foot they didnt cushion it at all so were no help to her
Since your farrier sounds so good then I would leave the trimming to the experts. My own farrier is happy to shoe or trim for barefoot and he gets calls all the time from people who've tried to go DIY and ended up with seriously lame horses as a result.
Have you had a recent X ray done of the hooves? 
I picked up a leaflet and spoke to these people at the Equine Affaire - they are a farrier approved plastic type shoe that allows for hoof expansion and lowers concussion - might be worth looking into if you do need shoes as seem a good compromise
Happy Hoofwear


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

spookychick13 said:


> My horse was diagnosed with Equine Metabolic Syndrome and is tender/sore in the front. He is an 18 year old overweight arabian, I board him and it's a constant struggle to keep him at a healthy weight.
> 
> I had the vet out today and he took him off all grain and is putting him on l-thyroxine for weight loss.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with this?


Yes Thryroxine is used for weight loss it is used to up the metabolism.....I have used it on my easy keeper....it worked great but it is expensive.....and I had to use the max to get a benefit and for my horses weight that would have been 5 scoops.

If you are struggling to keep your horses weight down.....he should never be on grain.....if you need to get minerals in him give him a cup of wet beet pulp.

I would find some first coarse cut local and start weighing out his hay and start out a 2% of his weight and see if there is any weight loss....if not then go down to 1.75% of his weight.

The second thing you should do once his feet are not sore is start with a 15 minute walk once a day.......then add 5 to 10 minutes of round pen 3 times a week........exercise also ups the metabolism.

Super Nova


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

This should be ok, yes? Hilton Herballs - Horse Treats from SmartPak Equine

In moderation, of course.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yup, those are okay


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Equishine is actually just a multi vitamin the vet told me to put him on...sadly I bought a huge bag of it. I wonder if I can sell it and buy the equipride.
This is Equishine:
Equi-Shine Pelleted Horse Supplement | Equi-Shine


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Looking at the link, I think I'd just leave him on it and see how he does.

Unless there's something in the indgredients list on the bag (since that isn't included on the web page, that he shouldn't have, it looks very good.

Look on the bag and see what the ingredients are.

No doubt the protein source is soy but, unless he is soy-intolerant, I wouldn't sell what's left of the bag just for that.

See if there are any pre and/or probiotics in it? Sometimes there are. It might say "digestive enzymes" and then list things like Amylase, Oligosaccharides, or anything similar that can't be pronounced or spelled - lollol

If Oligosaccharides are listed that would be fantastic since those are in the "prebiotic" category.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I will definitely try switching him to equipride when the equishine is gone. 
I may see if the lady who uses equishine at the barn wants to buy it.

I know someone listed a supplement spreadsheet type thing you could use to see what your'e feeding...but I can't find it. Stupid phone...


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Here is a recent pic (this weekend) though it's unflattering.

Dare I say he he is looking thinner?

Please excuse his very tired BFF.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

He does
Who is responsible for tearing down the fence? The tired warrior?;-)


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

It very well could be! They want to get to the big spotted draft mare next door. 
Though Brandon has the 'It wasn't me!' look, doesn't he?

There's still electric up at least.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

He is very innocent......even if caught with a fence board in his mouth;-).....one of those innocent in general and always types....


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

How funny is that picture:lol:

A few captions come to mind, along with the "it wasn't me" - lol lol

"Relax relax - he's alive! I was only teaching him to play Bang Your Dead!"


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

"He would have torn down everything so I used my Judo and brought him down mom,....let him sleep it off"


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Please excuse the dumb, but didn't someone post a spreadsheet for tracking supplements?? I can't seem to find it. :/
I don't want to double up.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

No clue, have you checked the nutrition section?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

I'm looking.  When I will find it I will repost it.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Good


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## 2SCHorses (Jun 18, 2011)

It is FeedXL Horse Nutrition: The D.I.Y. equine diet planner spookychick!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Thank you thank you thank you! You rock!


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

In addition, we are not impressed with our extra slow hay busy horse hay net.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

"I AM going on a hunger strike ---- just as soon as I finish this mouthful.

I know the Horse Abuse Hotline number and I demand you give me your cell phone".

:rofl::rofl:


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

"This is absolutely ridiculous thinking that I need to eat slower. As if I ever over-ate....pfffft....apart from that. I am not Over weight, I am Under tall......burp........."


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

He's doing MUCH better, not lame at all...so far so good.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yayyyyyyyy


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Resurrecting an old thread, but I was thrilled today when I had an insulin test on Brandon!
3.5 when 10 is high normal!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Great to hear!


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

spookychick13 said:


> Resurrecting an old thread, but I was thrilled today when I had an insulin test on Brandon!
> 3.5 when 10 is high normal!


*Fantastic News!!!*:clap::clap:

Would you mind detailing what you did to get your horse to this healthy point, including if you changed/reduced meds and changed feeds?

It could help others


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## tmhmisty (Jun 8, 2014)

Do you have any recent pics to share?


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

walkinthewalk said:


> If you're thoroughly confused by now, and you think those of us with metabolic horses seem to sound iffy with a lot of variable information, that is because of that Gray Area word "metabolism".
> 
> Just like people have different metabolisms, so do horses. What works wonderfully on one horse can be a dismal failure on another.
> 
> ...


 
Oh no, oh no. You said their hooves grow fast? Ana gets hers trimmed every 6 weeks but looks overdue for a trim at 4 weeks. I added a magnesium and chromium supplement to her diet and cut her pelleted feed wayyyy down. She has a couple of fat wrinkles on her neck but not the other classical signs. She gets worked a lot. She walks just fine on grass and arena dirt but is sensitive on gravel.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

frlsgirl said:


> Oh no, oh no. You said their hooves grow fast? Ana gets hers trimmed every 6 weeks but looks overdue for a trim at 4 weeks. I added a magnesium and chromium supplement to her diet and cut her pelleted feed wayyyy down. She has a couple of fat wrinkles on her neck but not the other classical signs. She gets worked a lot. She walks just fine on grass and arena dirt but is sensitive on gravel.


If your horse looks overgrown at 4 weeks, you need to have them done at least that often, if you don't want them getting too deformed between visits & leave the farrier chasing his tail. Different horses, different diet, environment, workload, etc, grow their feet at different rates, so just because 6 weeks is the norm doesn't mean it's adequate for all. The ideal is to trim little & often enough to *maintain* good, functional form, rather than waiting for the hooves to be well overgrown before 'correcting'.

If she has 'fat wrinkles'(do you mean lumpy cellulite?), sounds like may be adipose tissue from metabolic probs. What's her diet? I wouldn't be feeding ANY supplementary feed, aside from as little as necessary to get appropriate nutrition into her. 

'Classic signs'(I presume you mean of founder) don't generally happen until the horse is quite chronic/acute, so it's a good idea to pay attention to minor factors & 'signs' & manage to *avoid* them, rather than waiting for them to become major before considering.


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## frlsgirl (Aug 6, 2013)

loosie said:


> If your horse looks overgrown at 4 weeks, you need to have them done at least that often, if you don't want them getting too deformed between visits & leave the farrier chasing his tail. Different horses, different diet, environment, workload, etc, grow their feet at different rates, so just because 6 weeks is the norm doesn't mean it's adequate for all. The ideal is to trim little & often enough to *maintain* good, functional form, rather than waiting for the hooves to be well overgrown before 'correcting'.
> 
> If she has 'fat wrinkles'(do you mean lumpy cellulite?), sounds like may be adipose tissue from metabolic probs. What's her diet? I wouldn't be feeding ANY supplementary feed, aside from as little as necessary to get appropriate nutrition into her.
> 
> 'Classic signs'(I presume you mean of founder) don't generally happen until the horse is quite chronic/acute, so it's a good idea to pay attention to minor factors & 'signs' & manage to *avoid* them, rather than waiting for them to become major before considering.


Thank you. After reading this thread I started my own thread and I think I'm on the right track.

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-nutrition/weight-management-boarding-facilities-457434/

I will check with my farrier to see if he thinks she needs a different trim schedule.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Here is what I did:

I was super stubborn about sugar laden treats, no apples, carrots, nothing.
I used a slow feed hay net.
IF he was on grass he had to wear a muzzle.

Supplements:
Omega Horse Shine
Remission


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## spookychick13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Svelte at 20 years old.


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