# what breeds are you seeing in this stud?



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

First of all, HE IS NOT MINE. I did not take the photos. I have not met him. I own one of his get.

But, what breeds do you see in him? He is a mixed breed stallion, so it's really anybody's guess.

Am I going mad or is there a strong Welsh influence in his type? He's not full Welsh, his head isn't the right shape. And his ears are SO Arab-y... but what else?

His owners think he is Andalusian/Clyde/Arabian, but it's highly unlikely that he doesn't have something else in him, either in addition to, or instead of, one of those breeds - because his colour does not exist in either Clydes or Arabians, and is extremely rare in Andalusians.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Forgot to say, he is 14.3hh, so he's not a big boy. He's very nice, IMO... stud quality even though he's only colour registered, not breed.


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## horsemadgirl (Aug 23, 2011)

I would say defiantly some ANDALUSIAN 
Definitely looks like there may be some sort of draft in there, wouldn't know what. 
The back legs and ears, but especially the back legs are looking very Arabian.
The neck to me looks very Belgian, but i would doubt there would be Belgian in here as they aren't usually crossed. Or shown for that matter.
The neck also looks quite Friesian.
Could also be some Holstein in there.
The head looks quite Cob like also.

Hope this helps


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

What do you think would cause him to be so small, though? Most of the breeds you're seeing are taller horses and this stallion is only 14.3. That's partly why I'm wondering if there's Welsh Cob in him. That, and the neck.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I do see welsh, andalusian and arab. I dont see draft, id expect a thicker built. Unless hes only 1/8th draft, but idk what itd be...?


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

I do not see Clyde in this horse at all. Andalusian would give the heavier appearance - some of them are quite baroque in their build and would give the thicker neck and such depending on the bloodlines.

As to height - 14.3 hands would be very reasonable for an arabian X andalusian cross. Andalusians average around 15.2 - only 3 inches taller than this guy, and of course that is just the average so individuals both taller and shorter would be expected. 14.3 falls well within what is acceptable for an Arabian.

Welsh Cob is a possibility - especially sine the breed has a lot of Arabian influence.

While he looks gorgeous and he is obviously successful in some sort of showing, I wonder what the decision making process was to keep him a stallion when he was still just a colt when there was no idea who the sire and dam are. Do you know what his story is?


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

I definitely see some Welsh Cob in there, and not really any draft.


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## Thyme (Sep 4, 2010)

I would switch the Clyde with the Welsh 

Andalusian/arabian/welsh

He is definitaly a BEAUTIFUL stud.

<3


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I see welsh and possibly some paint. I don't see how his head couldnt be the right shape for a welsh, either. Looks alot like some of the other horses on the internet conformation-wise.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

[No message]


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

lilruffian said:


> I see welsh and possibly some paint. I don't see how his head couldnt be the right shape for a welsh, either. Looks alot like some of the other horses on the internet conformation-wise.


The only reason I could see anyone saying his head does not look to be like a Welsh Cob is that they are used to Welsh Ponies that are more refined like an Arabians. Many Welsh Cobs (section D) have heads like that Stallion's.


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

this is purely unscientific of course, but his stockier neck, color and mane, and shorter stature make me want to say Fjord. that could be where you are seeing the draftiness in him.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

My first impression was Welsh. An Andalusian cross with it, is a possibility,many Andys have more Beroque look to them & could explain the heavier neck & less refined head{as many Andi's don't have the prettiest heads:lol:}


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Lusitano comes to mind. They are like the Andalusian but from Portugal and come in a wider range of colors. What's funny is when I Googled Lusitano this is the second photo that came up:

http://papodanjo.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/buckskin20lusitano.jpg?w=450&h=337

I really don't see draft, but hey, what do I know. :lol:


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

He looks like a straight up Section D to me. The Welsh Cob breed does have some Andalusian in its background.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks guys, good to see that a lot of people are also seeing the Welsh D. I was hoping it wasn't just wishful thinking, I love the Cobs and have wanted one (or a partbred) for a very long time.

Yes I was thinking his head was the wrong shape for a Welsh D because the majority of local ones are a lot more refined in the face. But all through the neck and body he looks so cobby to me.

I seriously doubt Fjord, there are only like 50 in Australia and 2 in Western Aus. They are a very rare breed here.

He matured very late, I think he's actually still changing shape going on recent photos vs photos from around 10 months ago. He'd be 6 or 7, not exactly sure of his age.

I don't know his story, like I said he's not my horse. Just the sire of my filly. As far as I know he was kept entire because he's a nice colour and he has a beautiful temperament, and they saw quality in him when he was a baby. He's from a city that is very near an area with a large population of Australian Brumbies so he might be a Brumby, I've met a fair few that I thought were dead certs for Welsh Cobs and then I found out that they weren't!

The owners breed TBs mainly, for racing, so they are used to fine boned horses. To them, this stallion is really chunky. He is really successful in the show ring, that sash is for champion buckskin and he has a fair few champion sashes under his belt.

He can REALLY jump, all of 14.3 and he's free jumped 3'4" with next to no training. His form is just lovely. Honestly when he's jumping he looks more like a Cob than when he's not moving... I've seen a video, he's pretty impressive.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

My money would be on a pretty high percentage of Welsh D in there.

However, I have to wonder at the logic behind keeping him entire. Yes he is a relatively nice horse, but they have no idea of his breeding. If he doesn't pass on his colour his foals are unable to be registered. Seems a little irresponsible to me.

I know he is not yours, so no need to get up in arms about that. Just passing my opinion on the horse.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Depends on what he's bred to HC. If he was bred to a Welsh, or an Arabian, the foals would be eligible for partbred registration.

Regardless, the stallion himself is nice, and the type he throws seems consistent. And quite nice. IMO that's the most important thing... bloodlines and registration are nice, of course, but they're not the be all and end all of everything. You know what I mean?

EDIT; that being said, if I put my filly in foal (obviously when she is older), it will be to something that I can then register the foal. A Welsh, or an Arab.. have to look into the rules of Warmblood rego as there are 3 or 4 Warmblood stallions I'm head over heels for, but at the moment I'm thinking if I put her in foal the most likely breed to really compliment her is Welsh D, because she seems to be maturing to a fairly similar type to her daddy.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I absolutely know what you mean and you are right that registration is not the be all and end all. However, I am pretty firm in my belief that if you don't even know what your horse's breeding is, it doesn't need to be breeding itself.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I guess I'm lucky that I know who my girl's parents are then because I feel the same, if you don't know at least the horse's direct parents you can't predict what it'll throw.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> I guess I'm lucky that I know who my girl's parents are then because I feel the same, if you don't know at least the horse's direct parents you can't predict what it'll throw.


You may know who the parents are but don't know what breed they even are with certainty.:?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I know the dam is a registered arab derivative, just don't know her name (arab derivative can mean anything but is most commonly TB, Warmblood, Australian Riding Pony or Welsh in addition to the Arab blood). I know the type of the sire and I know my girl is strongly looking like maturing a lot like him. I also know a few really nice Welsh Ds that would cross well with my girl if she does mature to look like her sire.

I may not know the exact breeding of the stallion, but he throws a very consistent type (I have seen several of his foals) and I know what type crosses best WITH that type.

A horse is most likely to throw back to its parents in its offspring, so if you know the parents of a horse you know what it's most likely to throw. It's quite often seen in Thoroughbreds, if you look at the best racehorses their parents might not be champions but their grandparents quite often are.


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## soenjer55 (Dec 4, 2011)

That breed usually referred to as 'gorgeous'. In this horse's case, I'm not even curious as to what breeds he is, he's so nice... and that's rare, lol. You must have a very lovely horse from him!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

The buckskin filly in my icon is my girl by him, I don't have any recent photos (she was 10.5 months in that one, she's 16 months now) but she's filled out a lot, she was so refined at that show and she's a real little chunk now. I think she'll mature to look a lot like him.


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## Flashboy2011 (Apr 2, 2012)

I have tried to observe many horses... I would say he has Arabian, Andalusian, welsh, and i would also say a possibilty of Perchuron. I ride a Perchuron/ Thoroughbred Cross who is only 14.2 hands so even though he is small doesn't mean he couldn't have draft in him.... size doesn't always matter. Rode a Welsh pony only 13 hands who jumped over 4 foot jumps.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I had a quick Google of Welsh Cobs and my girl's sire isn't quite the right body type to be purebred (his bum is not round enough) so there is a very very high probability that he does have something else. Especially with those REALLY Arab-y ears. I do love his hind, it's his best ***-et, but I think it comes from somewhere other than the Welsh blood that he almost certainly has. The arab mayyybe, but I think more likely if he has Andalusian in him that such a lovely hind and a level to uphill build would have come from that.


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## bagof4grapes (Jul 31, 2011)

That stallion looks straight-up Welsh D to me.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Honestly, he looks like a welsh x hackney to me. The shape of his butt, his barrel and something about his legs screams hackney at me, and the head neck and shoulders scream cob. Could easily be some crumby in here too. 

Not to be derogatory, but I'm surprised he has done so well in the show ring. His front and back half don't match at all!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

He is still fairly youngish I think which might explain the mismatched front and hind. He also hasn't done a lot of undersaddle work due to his age and stallion status according the the breeders' website. Structurally he's not too bad, just very solid through the neck and shoulders (possibly a stallion thing as many of them seem to be quite thick in the forehand). Do we even have hackneys in Aus? Can't be very many, especially here in WA.

My filly seems to have inherited his neck, can't say for sure about much else but I think she might mature a lot like him. Hopefully she's a bit better matched front to hind but if she's inherited any of his jumping talent I will be happy regardless of what she looks like.


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## Palomine (Oct 30, 2010)

Easiest thing to do would be do DNA test to see.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Palomine said:


> Easiest thing to do would be do DNA test to see.


The DNA tests that are currently available are not at all reliable. They have returned some very odd results, including when testing known purebreds, eg registered QHs testing as various mixed breeds.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

what ever his breed he is very cute


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## feather feet (May 11, 2009)

actually,he has no welsh in him whatsoever,"My moonshine man" a 7 yr old 15hh Andalusian,arab Clydesdale cross.....Stallion at Stud - Welcome to Mymoolah Stud


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## nikelodeon79 (Mar 3, 2008)

feather feet said:


> actually,he has no welsh in him whatsoever,"My moonshine man" a 7 yr old Andalusian,arab Clydesdale cross.....Stallion at Stud - Welcome to Mymoolah Stud


A bit of an old thread, but the website doesn't state he IS a Andalusian/Arab/Clyde, it states:



> He is a mixed breed *with traites of* andalusian, arab and clydesdale


I added the bold (and resisted the urge to correct the spelling).

So, they've just guessed on breed, just like the OP states.

Regardless, I really, really like him. I definitely see Welsh in there with those cute little ears.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yep I know the sire's name and all the details that his owners have given about him. My inference from "with traits of" was that they were guessing on breed. Honestly I have no idea of his history. What I DO know, is that I wouldn't mind having another one of his babies. Satin is SUCH a lovely filly, and her half-siblings all have the same beautiful temperament and lovely type. I wouldn't mind a Cody baby out of my TB filly actually, he crosses really nicely to TB mares and it might add some height [Cody, the stallion, is only 15hh].


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

If he is in Australia my guess is australian stock horse. They look similar to Andulusians.


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## rookie (May 14, 2012)

I kinda see connamara in him. Welsh neck but connamara would explain the color and a bit of the height.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

churumbeque said:


> If he is in Australia my guess is australian stock horse. They look similar to Andulusians.


Um, no they don't. I'm quite familiar with both breeds and they look NOTHING alike.

I think he might be a brumby or if not station bred at the very least. I have seen brumbies I would swear on my LIFE are purebred, registered welsh D's.

Re the person who mentioned connemara re colour and height, actually the Welsh breed has both Splash AND Sabino, which this stallion is, and definitely cream [buckskin and palomino are not uncommon in the breed], and there is a welsh D standing at stud this season that's 15.1, so in theory he COULD be purebred D. If he is, he's not registered.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

My guess is an Andalusian Fjord mix - silly but could be. He's built like a fjord, at 14.3 and built like a Tank, but he's got clear Andalusian traits. I see no Arab outside of his delicate ears, but that could be from any arab influenced breed. He's screaming Fjord to me.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Punks, but aren't all fjords and fjord crosses dun? Cody's buckskin, no dun factor at all [have seen many many photos of him and am friends with his owner]. The Fjord breed is also REALLY rare in Aus... have only seen one for sale and I'm on classified sites every day.


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## Britt (Apr 15, 2008)

Whatever he is, he is gorgeous!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Britt, I agree, that's why I bought one of his daughters! [and since gave her to my mother, because she's too small - I like them big and Satin's going to top out at MAYBE 14.2]

...but I love Satin, and him, enough that I'm definitely considering finding a nice mare that will put some height on a baby, and breeding her to him, even though as far as I'm aware anything that will put height on wouldn't produce a registerable foal to an unregistered stallion. He's colour registered but that doesn't really count.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

blue eyed pony said:


> Punks, but aren't all fjords and fjord crosses dun? Cody's buckskin, no dun factor at all [have seen many many photos of him and am friends with his owner]. The Fjord breed is also REALLY rare in Aus... have only seen one for sale and I'm on classified sites every day.


Oh didn't realize it was in Australia - yes they typically carry the dun factor, but doesn't mean it'll carry on and I think they have their own version of dun, but maybe it's just a language thing. I can tell he's a buckskin, not a dun, but look at his mane and tail - looks VERY fjord to me. I'm looking at pictures of Fjord's now, they don't all have dorsal stripes.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

That's just frosting, very common in buckies. I thought it was maybe something "special" when I got Satin, but nope, just frosting. Frosting is pretty though!


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## 16HHPocketPony (Aug 20, 2012)

Oh my goodness! SO beautiful!!! :-o I'm thinking perhaps some Fjord!


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

pshha..how hard is that to figure? He is clearly a "gorgeous"!!!


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## FalineDear (Nov 17, 2012)

Those pointed ears just spell out Marwari Horse to me.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Faline, that's a pretty typical Arabian trait  my Anglo Arab gelding has very similar ears, I have seen TB's with even tippier ears, and purebred Arabs with EVEN tippier.

Not to mention, I don't think there's a single Marwari or Kathawari in Australia.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

I see Welsh (maybe cob) and some sort of gypsy, since gypsy tend to be pretty small.


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## jumpinggirl (Nov 14, 2012)

COB...he's so cute though. I agree with the arab, the ears give that away....maybe some Clydesdale...hard to say though. His color is magnificent.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

hahahaa if he wasn't unregistered I would look at finding a nice proven tall TB broodmare and breeding to him for a taller half-sibling to miss Satin... he is lovely, his get are all lovely, seems to breed a very consistent [very nice!] type... but any of his foals will only be eligible for colour registration and that's if they're lucky.

And the other thing is he's thrown palomino which I'm not a fan of - if I was guaranteed to have bay, buckskin, black or smokey black I think I would breed to him tomorrow regardless of registration. I love the cob types, and I believe a good grade is an excellent horse. But breeding to him would be for a keeper, not a sale pony, and I'm looking at training up an OTTB sometime in the next few years. I don't need a greenie AND a foal.


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## tikapup1 (Nov 22, 2012)

I see fjord some where in there.


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## LoveHaflingers (Feb 11, 2012)

Have you ever considered a bit of Morgan? I just found a picture of an Devan-bred Morgan stallion the other day that was a dead ringer for him, just palomino, not buckskin. The older type Morgan would definitely give him that noble head and thicker neck and front end.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

oh yum LH. I love Morgans and there is actually a 14.3h bay Morgan stallion in our state [smack bang in the middle of the right height range] so there is a possibility there might be at least some Morgan in Satin's daddy. I dare say probably not pure simply because purebred Morgans are so rare here you register them and charge a fortune for them for sale/stud... and the other thing is I don't think I've ever seen a cream dilute Morgan in Australia?


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

I see marwari maybe, because of the ears, and another few breeds like andalusion or lusitano


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## crom5 (Dec 1, 2012)

Possibly a Arab/Welsh... How tall is he?


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## crom5 (Dec 1, 2012)

Maybe even a Arab/Morg/Welsh i can see a little of the Morgan..


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

He is 14.3/15hh according to his owners. The filly we have by him is presently just over 14.1 at 23 months old, so she'll mature around the same, and is out of a 14.2hh Arab Derivative mare.

His size is why I feel like if he has Welsh in him it's Section D Cob, because you just don't get anywhere near 15hh with any of the other sections.


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