# Conformation Critique of TB and some help



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Another side view


----------



## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

What happened to her shoulder?


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Her rug was rubbing


----------



## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

she almost looks like my mare...


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Cool is she a TB too =D


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I have to ask is there any way I can make her neck look better? I hate is so much! But I guess it looks a little better than when I first got her...


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Bumpity bump


----------



## hflmusicislife (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm not great with conformation, and it's difficult to tell with these pictures, but I have a couple things to say...
I definitely think she could put a bit of weight on. She's by no means too skinny, however she doesn't look perfect weight to me. (Then again, our horses are fat, and the TBs I work with at work are racehorses and all too skiny... so I'm not used to looking at healthy weighted horses haha.) She looks a bit undermuscled too. I'm not sure what type of riding you do, but you can't go wrong with hill work. Walk her up and down hills as much as possible- it will help built up the muscles in her hind end and back. It also looks like her chest/shoulder is quite thick compared to her back end, so muscling up her butt would help even that out. 
For her neck, make sure that you muscle the top of her neck, not the bottom. If she's always running around with her head in the air when you ride her, the bottom strengthens and she could end up with an ewe neck. However that doesn't seem overly likely because it looks better than when you got her 
Overall, she looks like she's put together alright. Her shoulder is a bit steep, but that's very common in TBs. She's very cute


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Thank you! Yep I know she needs to put on weight she just lost that all in the past month. It is probably part muscle too. She has not been ridden in nearly a month because she is lame but once she is better she will hopefully start to look better again. She was also due to be wormed so she should put the weight back on.

She gets hard feed every days and non stop hay so I don't know what else I can do to help put on the weight again XD


----------



## Cheshire (Oct 17, 2009)

She is very nicely put together. I really don't see anything glaringly off about her. Nice topline, good bone, pretty shoulder, pastern angles good.

Yeah, she is a little underweight and is lacking some in muscle definition, but it's not horrible. What are you feeding her? (Type of hay, what grain etc). Have her teeth been done recently?
Also, have you looked into using a shoulder guard or light-weight under blanket to help with those rubs?

Her neck isn't bad at all. Just be sure she is working consistently in a correct frame, and that will aid with proper muscling.


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

She's very cute, and others have really touched on her conformation... the Safety Nut in me has to comment though... please never ever tie a horse to a gate, it's very unsafe. Especially a gate that's open and only attached at one end - if she spooked, that gate flying at her would spook her even more.


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

The gate was pretty much stuck into the ground so it was not going anywhere but I know it was kinda unsafe to tie her there. I would have been able to get her out of there quick enough anyways. 

I feed her this..

http://www.gainfeeds.com/prep

She is also on soaked beet pulp now as she is stabled.

Her teeth were done only 4 months ago but she seems to be dropping her hay again. Not to bad but it just falls out of her mouth. And I have to say not half as a bad as another horse that is there. She chews up all of her food then every single bit of it falls out =/ I think she is getting her teeth done soon.

How often should I get her teeth done?

I bought a totally new rug and that doesn't rub. If I put her other one on I put a cooler rug underneath. The hair is growing back now so I guess it is working.

And I have no idea what type of hay she gets. All I know is that it is a round bale.


----------



## haleylvsshammy (Jun 29, 2010)

Horses generally need their teeth done once a year, but if you feel like she might need her teeth done again, call out a dentist for a consultation. She may need a check up every six months as opposed to every year.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

*Improving the horse's neck*

Sarah,

Take a look at picture #10. The way your mare is doing the "neck telescoping" gesture there out of excitement or impatience is something to look at and memorize. That outline is what you want to go for when you are riding her. When she does this, she engages the correct muscles to build the upper part of the neck and lift the base of the neck up into the shoulders, while the lower part of the neck is left to hang in a relaxed state.
the trick for you will be in figuring out how much contact and in what way you can ride her that will have her in this position.


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks! She does have her head like that in walk but once we trot she sticks it in the air again! But we are working on it =D I am gonna maybe lunge her in side reins once a week to see if that helps.

So since her conformation is fairly good will she make a good jumper?

She can jump up to 3 ft now but anything higher kinda scares her. Hopefully she gets out of that.

I am worried her legs are too fragile for jumping but are they not? 

From now on she will be wearing boots on all 4 legs because she is lame in her fetlock and I want her totally protected! When she is better of course.

And also is her topline good enough? I was thinking maybe it could be better. She was beside another TB the same age and hers just seemed more swayed to me. His was a lot flatter.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Your horse does not strike me as fragile. Her bone is good. She can do well at jumping, buthow high is not just up to her conformation, but to her "heart".
If she is scared of higher, then maybe she'll be a good 3' hunter only. Anything wrong with that?
Next winter, when you do your hunter trace clip, leave some hair on her shoulders to protect them from the blanket.


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I am not gonna clip her next winter. She hated it and now when she hears the clippers she gets terrified. No points anyways. The hair grows back after two weeks especially if it is really cold.

Thank you =D She used to be scared to jump anything because she had never jumped before but 3ft is perfect yes =P I do not want to jump higher than that any time soon


----------



## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

yep my mare is a TB too


----------



## slc (Jan 30, 2011)

The first horse, the one pawing the gate - first, don't tie to a gate, please. Tie to a solid post, please. I know it's only a few seconds for photos, but you don't want your horse running around with a gate tied to it. Yes, I know the horse never would pull back from the gate, and he's very well mannered; so is everyone else's horse. Yet it happens. Tie to a post, please.

That horse looks too thin. All the ribs can be seen and the topline is not well covered with muscle and fat; it also needs more muscle from consistent, correct riding.

The conformation of the horse is fine, but he looks in rough condition - needs muscle, fat, feet done, etc.

"How can I make her neck look better, I hate it".

Thoroughbred horses look their best when they are at a condition score of about 5, and are getting plenty of correct, consistent riding, month in and out, to develop muscles on their hind quarters, back and topline.

They can look 'fat' in the belly, but it's just a haybelly, and the muscles on the neck, back and hind quarter are not built up.

What builds up muscle? Correct riding.

The mare is also somewhat thin and needs some fat to improve the coat condition.


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I know she needs weight on her...I have said loads of times we are working on it. She lost it out of nowhere. She needed to be wormed. Now she is so we will get back on track. She also has not been ridden in a month so has lot all the muscle she had.

Her feet were only done two weeks ago so I don't think they need to be done =/ The farrier actually said she was wearing them down herself so they didn't even need to be done. They only were because she lost a shoe. He took hardly anything off of them.


----------



## New_image (Oct 27, 2007)

I do not see any glaring faults, over all she looks nicely put together to me. 

The sunk-in you see is weight, she could use a little bit as others have said. I would try adding some soaked alfalfa cubes and beet pulp if you haven't and I am a big fan of Purina Equine Senior feed for Thoroughbreds. As always, free choice hay. 

As for her neck I think it looks a little better than the first photos of her. Make sure you condition the top of her neck. Do flexing from the ground, standing under saddle and while moving under saddle to teach her to soften and carry her head lower naturally. Never "pull" her into a head set.

Assuming the shoulder marks are nasty blanket rubs, I'd opt not to clip her and thus loose the ugly sores  JMO.


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks =D 

I will look at more feed tomorrow. She is on beet pulp at the moment because she is in a stable. She gets hard feed twice a day And she gets hay every few hours. But when she is outside she has access to hay 24/7 and is fed once a day.

And I do worm her regularly before anyone says anything..There are horses in the field with her that are never ever wormed so she must be getting them more often.


----------



## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

Didn't see this in the previous posts, so I thought I'd add my input ^_^

Horses generally keep their water supply just in front of their loins and behind their barrel, and when they are 'full up' and well hydrated, there is a smoothness or even a slightly rounded feel to that area. Your girl may just of been a bit dehydrated =] I believe that would be very possible, considering that she seemed to become like that almost overnight. There isnt a whole lot you can do about it- and many horses do tend to not drink enough water in the winter (one of our older mares does this every year x]) so don't worry about it too much. Just keep offering her water, or if she seems really dehydrated (ie, her gums arent the right color, you can pinch her skin into a tent, etc) you can always try to add some gatorade, a teaspoon of molasses, or something else she enjoys to her water in hopes of encouraging her to drink! The worming was definately a good idea though. Its better safe than sorry ^_^

I really like her conformation though, besides the really high withers. (do you have any saddle issues?) She seems neatly put together although I do agree that she could use a bit of muscling and more fat. She looks like she may be one of those 'hard to keep' horses, so I can totally understand. She isnt severely underweight or anything though so thats great! Just keep up with the muscling exercises and such.

and just as another side note, I see nothing wrong with her hooves- though I'm no expert ^_^


----------



## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

ok i didn't read through everyone's post so i apologize for that!

for weight - i see three things. 1) chiro/massage, 2) ulcers, 3) more fat in her diet. that will help 1) chiro then massage > take tension off the lower back 2-3 vert up from the croup and allow the muscle to relax, 2) relax her gut, coat her stomach and help her put on weight and 3) improve her coat condition, support the muscles and help her put on weight. see how they are all tied together? not sure which was the initial cause, but ulcers can cause stomach cramps which can cause the sinking look and cause them to stand awkwardly. the cramped muscles can cause the lower back to be sore and put strain on the skeletal system causing chiro issues. or she could have slightly thrown her back out in turn out or rolling or in her stall - who knows - and then stressed, causing ulcers, causing cramping...see how it all runs in circles? point being those are my three recommendations and i feel the rest will fall in place.

pointing out where i see the change in her back where the stress seems to be pinpointed and will post pics in a min.

as for her neck, longe circles of various sizes at the trot in side reins. same with riding, lots of dir changes with a focus on a soft contact so you are not holding her up and she is learning to use her entire back - tail to poll - to balance herself. looks like you have already done an excellent job compared to the before picture!!


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Oh thanks I never thought of that! When she is outside the hay is on the other side of the field than the water so when I take her in she is always thirsty. Having her in the stable these past few days could have made her not want to drink. 

I did have saddle issues and still kinda do! The last saddle I had was stuck to her withers so I got a new one and it clears her withers a lot but it is still hard to find the perfect saddle for her so I have to use a riser the whole time.

She is very hard to keep! When I got her she was worse than she is now. A few weeks later she looked great and a lot of people noticed. She then went downhill again =/ 

It has been really hard keeping muscle on her because a lot of things keep happening when I get into a routine..The weather/Work/And now lameness!


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Yeah I was thinking maybe she had back problems. She can be a little brat while ridden so someone will be out to check her. But I am wondering which would be better...A Neuromuscular man or a chiropractor? 

I was also just thinking to myself I will have to add vegetable oil to her feed. It worked before.

And also how do you find out if it is ulcers? Doe she have a scan or what?


----------



## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

Sarahandlola said:


> Oh thanks I never thought of that! When she is outside the hay is on the other side of the field than the water so when I take her in she is always thirsty. Having her in the stable these past few days could have made her not want to drink.
> 
> I did have saddle issues and still kinda do! The last saddle I had was stuck to her withers so I got a new one and it clears her withers a lot but it is still hard to find the perfect saddle for her so I have to use a riser the whole time.
> 
> ...


saddle fit makes a LOT of sense - if it's not fitting right it will cause her to tense her back, stress (ulcers...) and cause the need for chiro as well as that sinking. it will also be exacerbated by slight dehydration but i don't think that is your underlying cause. 

you can make a hard keeper an eas(ier) keeper with a better saddle fit and ulcer supps and a good chrio adjustment and massage (you can even do some of the massaging yourself). those changes can all improve muscle flow, energy flow, and system balance which means - healthier horse with less stress. not saying she is "stressed" as in anxious now, but i know when the weather changes, my tbs stress their systems and can get gassey and i put them on an ulcer supp every winter > spring to help prevent weather colic and it not only does that but helps them not lose weight when the weather changes too!


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Oh her new saddle does fit now. When I had her old saddle she would buck, throw her head down into the bit, back up, and nearly rear a lot of times.

Since I got the new one she has not done any of those things. I was just told to use a riser for extra comfort because she is so narrow.


----------



## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

see that little change of direction in her spine where it dips then levels as if there is a mini-kink in her back? i bet if you palpate there on either side of the spine she will be a touch sore. hope that helps - would love to hear your feedback bc i could absolutely be wrong!

btw she really is a lovely mare!


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

I will check that out tomorrow thanks =D 

She can be lovely when she wants to be =p


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Here are some pictures of the past few months since I got her. See how much she changes!
































































This was about 4 weeks ago










And these were about 2 weeks ago


----------



## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

poor girl! Has the lameness resolved yet? And dispite that bit of weight loss in the last few pictures, she's definately improved from when you got her- and she looks very content ^_^ I have no clue about how you check for ulcers in a horse, my filly hasn't had any problems with that so far =]

its very hard to find a good saddle for those high-withered tbs! One of my friends has a gelding with withers even more exagerated than your mares, and she's always having to try new things to keep him comfty xD

As for the water, I don't know if you're allowed to move the water/ hay, but if you are- you might want to try bringing them closer together. Horses tend to stay by the hay so they can munch. haha.

Don't know a whole lot about chiropractors or anything of the such, so I dont think I'd be of much help there, but its definately something to look into!

Good luck, she really is a nice horse =]


----------



## hflmusicislife (Dec 15, 2010)

^^ I read a thing in some magazine (either Practical Horseman or Horse Illustrated) that talked about how to diagnose stomach ulcers. The only way they can do it is (someone correct me if I'm wrong; my memory may be failing me) to knock the horse out and do something or other... I don't remember if it was ultrasound of some other type of more invasive testing. I was interested in testing my mare, but the cost was around $1000 and up I believe. So it's definitely not a cheap thing. I put her on a supplement that helps relieve her gastric issues, so that's always an option if you think your TB has them


----------



## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

theres a few inexpensive ways to test but something like 80% of horses have stomach ulcers in some sort or form. i can't remember offhand but there is more info on thehorse.com


----------



## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

if anything a cutback head saddle would be best for a horse with high withers like that (i have a shark finned wither TB myself). 

i also agree with adding a supplement for ulcers as, like CJ said, the majority of the equine population has ulcers in some way shape or form.


----------



## Islandmudpony (Feb 7, 2011)

Hey, your mare looks really cute  Her neck does seem a little undermuscled, but that's normal in mares. Doning lots of "long and low" trot work on circles and figure 8s will help build her topline as well as neck muscling. I'm concerned about the blanket rub on her shoulder though - if it was any worse, it looks like she'd have sores there. Are you sure the blanket isn't too big? I could see with her high withers it might just plain be hard to get a blanket that fits though. Have you tried her in an "undershirt"? Can make a big difference if you use something like
Horse Shoulder Guards


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

The hair is growing back there so I don't think it is rubbing anymore...I put a cooler rug underneath when she does wear the blanket that rubs..Right now she is wearing one that doesn't =)

And I don't know if she is still lame or not. I will probably check tomorrow. The heat and swelling is gone so that is good. She is going mad in the stable though so I cannot wait until she is better XD 

Wow that is a lot of money to check her ulcers XD three times as much as she cost haha. But I will get her a supplement for ulcers and that.


So going back to her and her stable antics! I don't know if it is her being in the stable this past week or maybe she could be in season but she actually got really angry at someone today! While she was rubbing her she pinned her ears back and bit her! I was mortified! There were other people around at the same time and rubbed the same place and she did nothing to them. She just didn't seem to like this person...Even when she was nipping at me the other day she did not pin her ears..It was an awful shock seeing her act that way..Why would she get so angry with one particular person and be fine with everyone else =/


----------



## Gidget (Jan 19, 2010)

didn't look to see how old this thread was or what everyone's response was but I did read that she is dropping hay again...she might be a sloppy eater..some horses get their teeth floated and when they eat their grain they grab big mouth fulls and drop a bit but if you feel that your dentist or vet didnt do a good job then call another one and see what they think.


----------



## Sarahandlola (Dec 16, 2010)

Yeah I think she is just sloppy XD She grabs a whole load of hay then goes over to the stable door and half of it falls onto the ground..She likes making a big mess =/


----------



## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

What a lovely bay! She has such an inquisitive face. I really like what TinyLiny said about the memorizing of the photo. She may look silly doing it now because her neck is undermuscled, but when she muscles up she'll look beautiful. I think she is put together very well for a TB.

Those panels make me nervous. I know you only tied her there for photos but I always get so nervous (especially with a horse that paws) that they're going to get their leg stuck in between the pipes. I love the one of her "pointing"  but it's a prime example of what I'm talking about. She is so cute. She's like "I'm doing a Spanish walk!" haha


----------

