# Horse scared of saddle



## kawaiialpacasso (Mar 19, 2016)

Hi everyone, sorry if this is the wrong section.

I've recently adopted a horse I've known for two years. He's a late gelding named Jack. Before I adopted him, I worked with him, groomed him, led him, worked on the saddle pad, etc. We have a strong bond. He will go over wooden bridges and lets me lay down with him.

He has had three owners, not including the rescue I got him from or me. The last owner beat him with a hose. :sad:

He is half Arab and half QH, so he's half-collected and half-hot during training. If that makes sense :icon_rolleyes:

He's fine with the saddle pad or bareback pad on him. I can cinch up the bareback pad all the way with no funny business. I free-lunge him with the whip until he's tired of running and then put the pad on him and he does fine.

However, when I try to put the saddle on him, he freaks. He will snort and throw his head up, and will turn so he faces me so I can't get the saddle on him. I have gotten it on him for a few seconds once, but tried to toss the girth down (my own fault) and he spooked. He has had a saddle on before. 

Last year, a trainer and one of the girls she teaches came and tried to demonstrate getting the saddle on him, but the girl kept pulling on the lead while he kept freaking. In short: it wasn't a positive experience for him. That isn't the time he had a saddle on.

How I can get the saddle on him with my hands still intact? Is it just that particular saddle that he has negative experiences with? Am I doing it wrong?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you probably need to do more work with him being desensitized to things on his back, around his belly, flopping on his flanks.

that could be best done, in a round pen or smallish paddock, with him on a line, you working things onto his back, in between his legs. just using a soft rope for that would be a start. 

maybe you should start looking at videos on how to desensitize a hrose. just him being calm and allowing you to lay down with him does not mean he will be ok with something on his back, flapping around.


it is also possible that he HAS had some bad experiences with the saddle itself. maybe start bringing the saddle out and placing it near you while you just groom him, so he sees it near him but it's just sitting there passively. then place it near him on a fence, but again, just groom and hang out. do that for a a few days so that he is used to it. then start carrying the saddle around near him but not on him. 
that's one way you can experiment wiht him to see if he is anxious about the saddle, or is just protective of his back/loins, or both. it's something simple to do.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

I think he is also pulling the trick on you, because he knows he can get away with it and not get the saddle on his back.

Much, much more desensitising. Put things in his back, anything you can think of. Real life examples: hose (ok, maybe not best to start with him if he has been beaten with it, but probably best would be to break the fear of this object at some point as well), bucket, jacket (material that makes a nice noise), empty bag, back bag full of stuff, 15 kg dog food bag... Start with an object that is easy to hold. He is probably going to freak out and be a fire breathing dragon, but you will follow him with the object and continue touching him with it. 

When you finally get the saddle on him, you should lunge him with stirrups down. 

I desensitise the reactive horses, adults and youngsters, to everything possible - my mare taught me the hard way just how important that is. It is not fun when a horse freaks out if you lose your stirrup, move your jacket, or bag on the trail.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Sounds like you are using a western saddle? Get a light English saddle you can hold with one hand. Then repeat what you did with the pad. On, off, on,off, on, off, on... How are they with a surcingle? 

When he turns to face you, so not let him. Put your hand up by his eye and move your feet to stay beside him. Facing up to you like that has him dictating what is happening. Usually you'll spin a couple times the first time, then they will stop and sigh.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

You have to free lunge himmunti, he is tired prior to putting th bareback pad on?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Needing to lunge a horse, until he is tired, just to get a bareback pad on, shows a horse not ready to be saddled
Lunging a horse should be a learning experience, versus' running a horse until he is tired'.
That means you have the horse go at the speed asked for, stop when asked to, reverse when asked to
Can you get some help from someone experienced in starting horses under saddle?


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

^Himmunti?? Wassn't that a show with Robyn Williams??  

Hi OP, 

Firstly, I get the idea you are a novice at training. Don't know what training the horse has had, how old, etc. When you say 'late gelding' I assume you mean he was allowed to mature as a stallion, until recently? Regardless of his training, if you aren't sure what you're doing & he's had some bad experiences too... Therefore, I'd strongly advise finding a good trainer, or at least experienced horseperson to help & teach you firsthand. Yep, there are some great videos out there, but it's no substitute for hands on help - your bodylanguage & timing for eg. are 2 vital factors difficult to convey 'remotely'. We can't possibly tell you what you might be doing wrong, just from this little info here.



> He is half Arab and half QH, so he's half-collected and half-hot during training. If that makes sense :icon_rolleyes:


No, afraid that doesn't make sense to me. Not trying to be smart, but I think you're seeing what you expect there, after someone told you arabs were 'hot' and QH's 'collected'. Arabs can tend to be more sensitive, quicker to react horses than some breeds, but they're not naturally 'hot' any more than QH's are 'collected', whatever that means. They're mostly all just... horses ;-) and a product of their experiences. If you find the horse is quite reactive for eg, then you are probably asking too much, being too confrontational... or something. You need to know how to adjust your approach accordingly for that horse, *at that particular time*, to not *cause* them to be reactive & 'hot'. Diet & management also has a huge bearing on 'hotness' & attitude generally.

I too would ask, do you feel the need to run him around until he's tired in order to put the pad on him, or do you just do this for some other reason? What do you do it for, and how are you 'free lunging with the whip'? Especially if you're not experienced & he's prone to getting 'hot', I'd be doing little if any running him around, without good reason.

So... as he's fine(assuming you don't have to make him exhausted to be 'fine') with the bareback pad, but he freaks even approaching him with a saddle... I'd guess he's had some bad experiences with one, &/or his previous experiences he was frightened but it was just forced on him. Perhaps it was a badly fitting saddle in the past & he's anticipating it hurting him... 

Whatever the cause, the specifics, you need to take things at his pace and do it in such a way that you PROVE to him it's OK. One small, easy step at a time. For eg. you say you've got it on once before & he was OK until you dropped the girth. If he's afraid of it, but you can easily get it on his back, THAT is ALL I'd do for starters, and immediately take it off again, BEFORE he reacts to it. Rinse & repeat until he's fine with that, before asking him to cope with any more. If he's very worried at your just approaching with it, I wouldn't even go that far - using 'approach & retreat' tactics, ensure he's comfortable & relaxed at your approaching him with it first, before you think about putting it on.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I would get him in a stable and fiddle around with the pad and other things in there so he cannot get away from you.

You can let him go around you in circles and at the same time throw the pad over his back, only stoppping when he stands still. I would have the saddle over the door so he can see it.

I agree with using and English saddle to start, easier to lift. 

Horse will get a fear of something and that can manifest into getting worse of it is not corrected which seems to be the case here.

I also agree with the over working him in the round pen.


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

sarahfromsc said:


> You have to free lunge himmunti, he is tired prior to putting th bareback pad on?


Oops, I was posting on the sly and spell checked screwed me.....lolololol


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## kawaiialpacasso (Mar 19, 2016)

Thank you all! I guess I could have worded it better. I lunge him until he turns in and follows the whip. Every few days I lunge him but stop before he turns in so he still goes when asked.

Today I tried desensitizing him to a plastic bag on the end of a short whip. I didn't lunge him beforehand and he didn't bolt. He backed up at first but let me touch his neck and side with the bag. He was tense so I stopped on a good note since it was the first day.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

kawaiialpacasso said:


> Thank you all! I guess I could have worded it better. *I lunge him until he turns in and follows the whip. Every few days I lunge him but stop before he turns in so he still goes when asked.*
> 
> Today I tried desensitizing him to a plastic bag on the end of a short whip. I didn't lunge him beforehand and he didn't bolt. He backed up at first but let me touch his neck and side with the bag. He was tense so I stopped on a good note since it was the first day.


Im a little confused as to what you mean by that, the 'every few days I lunge him but stop befoer he turns in so he still goes when asked". 

If I lunge a horse, in a round pen, I don't let him turn in until I have asked him to. if then, I want him to go on, I ask him to go on. him turning in to me or not has nothing to do with whether I can ask him to then go on. I would, however, if I had invited him in, I would give him a mintue to just stand there, looking at me, standing facing me, but not ON me, to just rest and enjoy that good place. then, I would turn away from him, to break our connection, then turn back with a whole new intention in my body; to ask him to move back out on the circle and walk or trot on.

if, on the other hand, he turns in on me when I have not invited him to, I will pretty much always ask him to get back to working, or, I'll ask him to change directions. I don't let him rest, because this starts the habit where the hrose will decide that he can get out of work by turning in to me, as soon as possible.

this should be about the same with lunging on a line, though sometimes it's hard to keep a hrose from turning in to you when he's on a line, without the round pen to keep him in . it can be done, with repitition and training, that you ask the hrose to stop, and he/she stops and waits for you to come out and change directions, since you may need to rearrange the lunging gear.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

kawaiialpacasso said:


> Thank you all! I guess I could have worded it better. I lunge him until he turns in and follows the whip. Every few days I lunge him but stop before he turns in so he still goes when asked.


Confused? It sounds like you are teaching him he can stop whenever he wants? Or is it a case of asking him to stop but he takes his own time? I'd have a think about what you're wanting to achieve with lunging. Not sure what you're asking/wanting here of the horse, but for me, lunging is just the same as leading/driving, but at a distance. I want the horse to learn to go/speed when I ask, stay in gait until I ask(always start small & slow, build on successes), and of course slow/stop/back when I ask. I also want the horse to learn to turn in either direction when asked. 'Lunging' is just about doing all that at a greater distance(I increase gradually) & responding to 'remote' cues rather than direct touch, etc.



> Today I tried desensitizing him to a plastic bag on the end of a short whip. I didn't lunge him beforehand and he didn't bolt. He backed up at first but let me touch his neck and side with the bag. He was tense so I stopped on a good note since it was the first day.


Sounds OK. Yes, good to back off immediately *before* the point of real fear/reactivity where possible. Just keep doing that until the horse is relaxed about it, before starting again at a bit more 'intense' level. Push the boundaries gradually. But you don't have to end the whole session with only one 'win'. Quit it, remove the pressure, let him relax - often a few seconds will do - then 'rinse & repeat'. Still best to keep sessions short & sweet, but you can do way more than once. You can also 'end the session' by just going on to do something else fun & relaxing with him for a bit, before having another 'session'. The point is, to break up 'hard' or 'tense' things with stress free, positive breaks in between.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

tinyliny said:


> this should be about the same with lunging on a line, though sometimes it's hard to keep a hrose from turning in to you when he's on a line, without the round pen to keep him in . it can be done, with repitition and training, that you ask the hrose to stop, and he/she stops and waits for you to come out and change directions, since you may need to rearrange the lunging gear.


Maybe it's that I've rarely had the chance of working in an enclosed space to lunge, that I made sure to teach horses not to pull/lean on the lead. Maybe it's that I teach lunging as an extension to leading, that I've never(well, since not having a clue & being dragged around a paddock trying it with my first horse:redface:...) had an issue with a horse leaning on the rope when lunging. I lead/lunge with a loose line. And of course they may try turning in, to see if it works, when they're learning, I don't think it's any more likely if there's no pressure on their nose. To take up the slack is actually one signal I _want_ them to come in(closer at least). 

I do tend to stop the horse by turning him towards me when lunging, but as with leading, I want him to also learn to stop in his tracks, not turn around to face me whenever I ask him to stop. As I teach them to do that on a short lead, then increase distance gradually until it's 'lunging' I haven't found it an issue.


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