# How can the horse be AQHA and APHA?????



## NdAppy

When the AQHA changed their white rule, horses that were registered with the APHA and were out of two AQHA parents were able to go back and get AQHA papers.


----------



## MHFoundation Quarters

AQHA has changed color rules. I wish they had done it years ago when we had a stunning black crop out filly. She had a bald face and 4 white legs up to her belly. Boy was she a looker! If she could have been registered AQHA then we wouldn't have sold her.


----------



## iridehorses

And just as confusing, the same horse can have different names in each registry.


----------



## Citrus

Personally, I think the crop out rule was a good one. But apparently, you are also now going to be able to register your clone AQHA if you have enough money.


----------



## equus717

I am in the process of getting PT's papers so that QT can be dual registered.


----------



## Poseidon

Citrus said:


> Personally, I think the crop out rule was a good one.


Except Paints have the Tobiano gene and QHs don't, so they are different. And then the APHA got disgruntled with the AQHA sending over all of their cropouts that had a bunch of white, so they switched and decided to be registered with the APHA, the horse has to have at least one APHA parent. There's other ways to get them dually registered, but I have no idea how to go about doing that. Haha.

That's how Abby is registered with the APHA. Her sire was a QH and she's solid coloured, but her dam was an APHA mare, so Abby was registered as breeding stock.


----------



## bubba13

Where did you hear that clones will get papers?

And why do you think that two registered Quarter Horses, who produce a nicely-built, useable, full-blooded Quarter Horse foal who just happens to inherit the white genes that his parents carry but only express minimally, should be punished?


----------



## equus717

bubba13 said:


> Where did you hear that clones will get papers?
> 
> And why do you think that two registered Quarter Horses, who produce a nicely-built, useable, full-blooded Quarter Horse foal who just happens to inherit the white genes that his parents carry but only express minimally, should be punished?


 PT dam is a full QH she had one white spot on her side very small. BUt AQHA wouldn't ecept her so she was registered as a minimal overo gray. That is how PT was registered as a Paint. I have talked to AQHA and am now getting her AQHA papers. The only reason I want them is because it will make her foals more marketable.


----------



## Citrus

I don't see it as a punishment... I just happen to like that idea of having too much white is a crop out. *It seems* that color breeds are over bred by back yard breeders, thus producing not so good feet and maybe other issues..... so if to be a QH you cannot care about color, the breed standards are *more likely* to be upheld. Just my opinion.

I was looking on dreamhorse.com and noticed that when a horse was a paint, it upped the price by thousands of dollars but the quality of horse was not upped, in fact it seems the opposite.


----------



## Citrus

I read that clones can be registered on Larry Trocha Training.


----------



## NdAppy

Link please Citrus.


----------



## bubba13

What about the awful buckskin/palomino/grullo/etc. color breeders in AQHA?

The "pinto" genes are and always have been in the breed, even among the founding stallions and mares. While spots aren't a "desireable" QH trait, they aren't an uncommon one, and they should be accepted....just as "albinos" (cremellos) were eventually accepted once people lost their ignorance of color inheritance.


----------



## Poseidon

Most QH breeders would probably consider being sent to the APHA as punishment. If you showed QHs and only QHs and your mare produced a heavy Splash foal that was sent to the APHA, you'd have to do a lot of switching in your showing.

The AQHA just kind of sucked with colours until recently when double dilutes and horses with white patterns were accepted. Like bay roans were always registered as red roan until not all that long ago.


----------



## equus717

Poseidon said:


> Most QH breeders would probably consider being sent to the APHA as punishment. If you showed QHs and only QHs and your mare produced a heavy Splash foal that was sent to the APHA, you'd have to do a lot of switching in your showing.


Why? I have never understood the two registries much. They are both blood registries so honestly I don't quite understand why color has to do with the registration. I say this because QT is carrying the tobiano gene I know this and so does APHA but she is only registered as a solid breeding stock which makes me mad because I have a good chance of getting a tobiano out of her when we breed her.


----------



## Citrus

Horse Training Tips – Training Fads Part 2

Eleven lines of type up from the bottom.....

And this is just my opinion. I liked the don't reigster clones, or crop outs rules.


----------



## bubba13

Because AQHA breed shows have more money and are more popular, and showing is breed/color specific, and so on.

That's why QH breeders used to knock excess white foals on the head at birth, and why you find SPB's in the kill pen at greater percentages than colored Paints...

How do you know your mare carries tobiano.


----------



## bubba13

In the link, he's saying you can MAKE clones, not register them. At this time, AQHA still does not allow for the registration of clones, although many people are pushing for it.


----------



## NdAppy

equus717 said:


> Why? I have never understood the two registries much. They are both blood registries so honestly I don't quite understand why color has to do with the registration. I say this because QT is carrying the tobiano gene I know this and so does APHA but she is only registered as a solid breeding stock which makes me mad because I have a good chance of getting a tobiano out of her when we breed her.



You're wanting to register QT with the AQHA per the following quote correct?



equus717 said:


> I am in the process of getting PT's papers so that QT can be dual registered.




Well that isn't possible unless _all_ the horses in QT's pedigree are AQHA eligible. Since she is apparently a tobiano carrier (per you) she is not eligible for AQHA papers in any way, shape or form as there is obviously tobiano in her history. There never has been nor will be tobiano in AQHA horses.


----------



## Citrus

Read the accompanying line above it for greater unerstanding of the context.....

To make matters worse, the AQHA has relaxed it's registration policy to the point of being ridiculous.
I'm talking about MULTIPLE embryo transfers, excessive WHITE and the "now accessible if you have enough money" CLONES.

Without the previous sentence the anchor the meaning, the second sentence in this quote does not make sense....... reading for context.


----------



## equus717

Her sire is a tobiano and on top of that she has the spotting on the coronet band. That is one of the requirements of a tobiano. It is not uncommon for a tobiano to throw what APHA calls a slipped tobiano solid colored foal but with the spotting on the coronet band. All of Sky's solid foals have this trait on them. 

We are in the process of having Sky tested as a homozygous tobiano stallion. He comes from homozygous tobiano lines. APHA also told us that a homozygous stallion can throw solid foals but they will have the spotting on the coronet band.


----------



## NdAppy

I know that it is possible for tobiano to be slipped in color. What is not possible is for QT to have or get AQHA papers.


----------



## equus717

NdAppy said:


> I know that it is possible for tobiano to be slipped in color. What is not possible is for QT to have or get AQHA papers.


Yes she can. Go to allbreedpedigree.com and look up Prancing Timid. Not a single paint in there except for her dam who was a crop out but since AQHA changed their rule I can now have her registered.


----------



## NdAppy

QT is by your tobiano stud correct? Then no. QT _cannot_ have AQHA papers. Tobiano is _not _accepted by the AQHA. Anything that has tobiano in it's breeding is not eligible for AQHA papers.


----------



## equus717

Granted that but through the dam I can get it. I know this because a friend of mine just had their paint dually papered. He was a flashy paint. Solid but with white legs. He was registered with both registrations. I will pay a pretty penny to have it done but I think it will be worth it for me.


----------



## NdAppy

Yes the mare can be.  But I was going off your post where you wanted to dual registered QT as well.


----------



## equus717

Yeah. I am wanting to breed PT to a Palomino QH of my vets. I want the full QH papers on her first though. The resulting foal if a filly will go into my brood mare band when she gets 5 years old.


----------



## Poseidon

I think the reason the Crop-Out rule annoyed me was because the AQHA could get away with sending horses with what they considered excess white to the APHA and it was fine, but, to my knowledge, the APHA never sent their solid Paints over the AQHA. If they had, there would be Tobiano in Quarter Horses.


----------



## Citrus

Poseidon said:


> I think the reason the Crop-Out rule annoyed me was because the AQHA could get away with sending horses with what they considered excess white to the APHA and it was fine, but, to my knowledge, the APHA never sent their solid Paints over the AQHA. If they had, there would be Tobiano in Quarter Horses.


Interesting way to look at things..... what annoys me about it is that they had a rule and changed it.... this seems to make all rules invalid if you can just go around changing things when you see fit


----------



## equus717

This is what makes me the most upset really with both AQHA and APHA is the fact that the APHA and AQHA were at one time the same organization. They share the same bloodlines. 

My hubby says this a Paint is no more than a Quarter horse just with better chrome. I was a QH all of the way until my hubby got a Paint. They share a lot of the traits that I like in the QH. Honestly most of the Paints have the same ancestors as QH's


----------



## NdAppy

They are not the same bloodlines though. The APHA was not started for crop out quarter horses. Yes they accepted them, but it was not formed for that reason. Tobiano is one of the main patterns. Tobiano has never been, nor will it ever be in AQHA horses. 

It's also like saying that ApHC horses are exactly the same as AQHA or APHA horses. It is not true. Yes they share a lot of similar lines, but there are differences.


----------



## bubba13

Can you post the pedigrees of the horses you are hoping to get AQHA registered?

Ermines on the coronet can be indicative of tobiano....but they are found on many solid, non-pinto-gene-carrying horses as well.

I went directly to the AQHA site (and press conferences) and confirmed that they are not currently registering clones.


----------



## bubba13

Per what NDAppy is saying, until recently, you could register a pure Thoroughbred in the APHA. And now if you cross those real TB Paints to each other within the registry, you're still getting 100% TB's. You don't have that in AQHA.


----------



## equus717

NdAppy said:


> They are not the same bloodlines though. The APHA was not started for crop out quarter horses. Yes they accepted them, but it was not formed for that reason. Tobiano is one of the main patterns. Tobiano has never been, nor will it ever be in AQHA horses.
> 
> It's also like saying that ApHC horses are exactly the same as AQHA or APHA horses. It is not true. Yes they share a lot of similar lines, but there are differences.


Yes there are differences but they are just as good as QH's. I was so into QH's growing up I would never own a Paint but I am glad that I do. I get the best of both worlds really.


----------



## Citrus

bubba13 said:


> Can you post the pedigrees of the horses you are hoping to get AQHA registered?
> 
> Ermines on the coronet can be indicative of tobiano....but they are found on many solid, non-pinto-gene-carrying horses as well.
> 
> I went directly to the AQHA site (and press conferences) and confirmed that they are not currently registering clones.


Link please for the AQHA not registering clones.


----------



## mls

bubba13 said:


> Per what NDAppy is saying, until recently, you could register a pure Thoroughbred in the APHA. And now if you cross those real TB Paints to each other within the registry, you're still getting 100% TB's. You don't have that in AQHA.


ONE parent can be registered with the jockey club - not both.

APHA.Com - The Breed

Paint is a breed, pinto is a color - both are registries. A horse can be double registered in both.


----------



## NdAppy

mls - bubba means the TB's that are APHA registered being bred together... You have an APHA foal that is also fully TB/JC registered.


----------



## Poseidon

Aren't some of TrueColour's TBs double registered JC/APHA?


----------



## Citrus

Proposed changes to the AQHA stud and registration polcies for 2011? - Yahoo! Answers

Here are the proposed changes.... read through it because the proposed change is that they allow clones to be registered for breeding purposes only.......

Other good things like not allowing a HERDA + stallion or an HYPP + stallion to breed.


----------



## mls

NdAppy said:


> mls - bubba means the TB's that are APHA registered being bred together... You have an APHA foal that is also fully TB/JC registered.


No.

ONE parent - not both. ONE has to be registered with the APHA.


----------



## NdAppy

Po - Blue Eyed Streaker, Stallion at Echo Hill Farm: Colored Thoroughbreds and Sporthorses << Their stud is dual APHA/JC

True Colours has dual registered horses as well. Most notably her mare Puchi Trap is dual registered.


----------



## bubba13

Until the One Paint Parent rule, JC registered TB's could be "cropped out" into the APHA just like spotted Quarter Horses.

AQHA on Cloning: Wait Another Year - Quarter Horse News - The News Magazine of the Performance Horse Industry
Quarter Horse News - The News Magazine of the Performance Horse Industry


----------



## equus717

allbreedpedigree and look up Prancing Timid.


----------



## NdAppy

mls said:


> No.
> 
> ONE parent - not both. ONE has to be registered with the APHA.


What are you getting at? When APHA was accepting crop outs, their were TB that were registered with the APHA at the same time. So there _are _JC registered TBs carrying full APHA papers...


----------



## NdAppy

bubba - equus' horses' pedigrees 

mare - Prancing Timid Paint
foal - Pocos Impressive Qt Paint


----------



## bubba13

So at the moment it's a proposed rule change. Sure hope it doesn't pass....could be awful for the breed. There are very good reasons not to breed clones.


----------



## bubba13

So PT is eligible for AQHA papers but QT is not.


----------



## NdAppy

bubba13 said:


> So PT is eligible for AQHA papers but QT is not.


In short yes.  PT has to have all the "paints" back registered as QH before she is eligible for AQHA papers. (CCH on here is dealing with that with her stallion, which is in my signature)


----------



## Citrus

Either there is a timing error in the beginning of that article (it says "On Sunday at the American Quarter Horse Association Convention in San Antonio, Texas, the Stud Book and Registration Committee approved a motion that recommended that action on the member proposal to approve the registration of clones be postponed until the AQHA Convention in *2010*.") 

This article is either out of date or a fact in the first paragraph is wrong, which then leads to suspicion of the whole article's accuracy.......


----------



## equus717

Yup correct. I want AQHA papers for PT because I want an outside line for my breeding. I want a full QH filly. Most likely I will get a buckskin from the stallion I want to breed her to.


----------



## bubba13

The article is correct. There have been no executive decisions by AQHA on the cloning issue since that time.


----------



## Citrus

The article may be correct about the cloning issue, but thinking in a law like fashion, if they made one mistake on the year (it is obviously 2011 so there cannot be a AQHA Convention in 2010- with 2010 being in the past and all), one could lean towards one wrong fact means all wrong fact..... REASONABLE DOUBT??


----------



## bubba13

Um, the article was written in 2009...so....


----------



## ukrhyslop

*Dual APHA/AQHA Registration*



Poseidon said:


> Except Paints have the Tobiano gene and QHs don't, so they are different. And then the APHA got disgruntled with the AQHA sending over all of their cropouts that had a bunch of white, so they switched and decided to be registered with the APHA, the horse has to have at least one APHA parent. There's other ways to get them dually registered, but I have no idea how to go about doing that. Haha.
> 
> That's how Abby is registered with the APHA. Her sire was a QH and she's solid coloured, but her dam was an APHA mare, so Abby was registered as breeding stock.


Only APHA horses that are overo's tracing back to AQHA linage can be doubled registered with both reg. Tobiano is a paint gene separate from overo, tobiano is the only pattern that can have a chance of also being homozogous.


----------



## Poseidon

ukrhyslop said:


> Only APHA horses that are overo's tracing back to AQHA linage can be doubled registered with both reg. Tobiano is a paint gene separate from overo, tobiano is the only pattern that can have a chance of also being homozogous.


No it's not. Frame can perfectly well be homozygous, it just happens to be lethal. I personally know of a horse that has been tested as homozygous Splash 1. And I can provide evidence of homozygous Sabino 1 horses.


----------



## ukrhyslop

Poseidon said:


> No it's not. Frame can perfectly well be homozygous, it just happens to be lethal. I personally know of a horse that has been tested as homozygous Splash 1. And I can provide evidence of homozygous Sabino 1 horses.


Never heard of a Sabino or splash being ****, other than for the black gene. But who knows with all the gene combinations out there. Tobiano is not a crop out gene, but overo is, and sabino and splash are sublets from the overo gene.


----------



## Chiilaa

ukrhyslop said:


> Never heard of a Sabino or splash being ****, other than for the black gene. But who knows with all the gene combinations out there. Tobiano is not a crop out gene, but overo is, and sabino and splash are sublets from the overo gene.


First of all, they aren't "sublets" of the overo gene, they are completely separate and only lumped in there due to ignorance.

Secondly, sabino and splash can both be homozygous. There are plenty of examples of these.


----------



## NdAppy

I now for a fact a member on here owns a homozygous splashed white horse...

This guy to be exact - (link because the pic is HUGE)
http://www.smokesnavajo.com/images/larson_maren_8-24-132.jpg
Photos - Siblings
Smokes Pepper Paint

This horse is also homozygous for splash SW1/SW1 -- 








*Golden Tequila Dream


*


----------



## Poseidon

Tobiano isn't a crop out gene because it doesn't exist in QHs at all. Frame, splash, and sabino, the three genes that fall under the blanket term "overo", all exist in the QH breed, but it was found undesirable and sent away to a different registry, which is the whole point of this thread.


----------



## nrhareiner

Citrus said:


> I don't see it as a punishment... I just happen to like that idea of having too much white is a crop out. *It seems* that color breeds are over bred by back yard breeders, thus producing not so good feet and maybe other issues..... so if to be a QH you cannot care about color, the breed standards are *more likely* to be upheld. Just my opinion.
> 
> I was looking on dreamhorse.com and noticed that when a horse was a paint, it upped the price by thousands of dollars but the quality of horse was not upped, in fact it seems the opposite.


Not sure why you think that color equals poor quality. My Dun It mare has produced 2 AQHA Crop outs out of 3 foals so fare and the 3rd was prity close. The first since neither parent was reg with APHA can only by AQHA the second has full APHA papers along with his AQHA papers. Very nice colt too.

It is not just paint who some people think should cost more other color as well. If they are not quality do not pay the price. If people would look past the color and buy quality that would solve the problem.


----------



## nrhareiner

Chiilaa said:


> First of all, they aren't "sublets" of the overo gene, they are completely separate and only lumped in there due to ignorance.
> 
> Secondly, sabino and splash can both be homozygous. There are plenty of examples of these.


 
Depends on which splash you are talking about. It is looking that only SW1 can be homozygous. SW2 and SW3 look to be fatal homozygous. Since it is likely that there are many other splash gene that are yet to have a test only time will tell.


----------



## Chiilaa

nrhareiner said:


> Depends on which splash you are talking about. It is looking that only SW1 can be homozygous. SW2 and SW3 look to be fatal homozygous. Since it is likely that there are many other splash gene that are yet to have a test only time will tell.


This is very true, and I was thinking about clarifying this, but didn't want to further pollute the waters lol.


----------



## nrhareiner

equus717 said:


> Her sire is a tobiano and on top of that she has the spotting on the coronet band. That is one of the requirements of a tobiano. It is not uncommon for a tobiano to throw what APHA calls a slipped tobiano solid colored foal but with the spotting on the coronet band. All of Sky's solid foals have this trait on them.
> 
> We are in the process of having Sky tested as a homozygous tobiano stallion. He comes from homozygous tobiano lines. APHA also told us that a homozygous stallion can throw solid foals but they will have the spotting on the coronet band.


 
Also while there are slipped Tobys out there they are rare. If the horse is truely Homozygous Toby their get would show it. There would not be any solid foals as the chances of getting one are rear and getting more then one are astronomicly rare.

First there are a lot of non toby horses with spots on their coronet band. Have had several. Also Toby does not exist in AQHA so if the horse is Toby then they can not be reg in AQHA. Only crop out AQHA horses can be reg AQHA. MUST have 2 AQHA parents. If at any point there is a APHA horse with out AQHA papers that is it. The next generations can not be AQHA reg.


----------



## nrhareiner

equus717 said:


> Granted that but through the dam I can get it. I know this because a friend of mine just had their paint dually papered. He was a flashy paint. Solid but with white legs. He was registered with both registrations. I will pay a pretty penny to have it done but I think it will be worth it for me.


 
Someone may have already touched on this. If the sire is APHA Toby then it makes NO differenace what the dam is. The resulting foal can not get AQHA papers. Both sire and dam MUST have AQHA papers for the foal to be eligable for AQHA papers.

If one parent is double registered then the foal regardless of color can be double reg. It is just simple. AQHA requires 2 AQHA reg parents. APHA requires 1 paint (APHA) parent. So horses like Gunner and Trash and such can have get double reg unless the dam does not have AQHA papers.


----------



## nrhareiner

Poseidon said:


> I think the reason the Crop-Out rule annoyed me was because the AQHA could get away with sending horses with what they considered excess white to the APHA and it was fine, but, to my knowledge, the APHA never sent their solid Paints over the AQHA. If they had, there would be Tobiano in Quarter Horses.


 
I do not have a problem with the crop outs coming back to AQHA. Gets some really great horses back where they should have been all along.

As for AQHA taking in the APAH solids. The problem is that these solids where never AQHA horses to begine with and no even if AQHA did take in the solids you would not find Tobys in QH as they would have enough white to be reg APHA and the few that are minimal are very few.

However all the rule change did is allow horses who are full QH to stay in the reg. Which is where they should have been all long.


----------



## nrhareiner

ukrhyslop said:


> Only APHA horses that are overo's tracing back to AQHA linage can be doubled registered with both reg. Tobiano is a paint gene separate from overo, tobiano is the only pattern that can have a chance of also being homozogous.


 
Actually this is not correct. There are several overo patterns who can also be homozygouse. SW1 is one of them.


----------



## PaintHorseMares

The APHA registration rules with regard to 'paint markings' and parentage are changing again (1/1/2013). Read all about it...

http://press.apha.com/pdfs/rulebooks/OnlineRuleChanges1012_.pdf


----------



## nrhareiner

Looks like they got rid of the one paint parent rule. YAYAYA. That means the filly out of my mare can be double reg. Will have to call and check and see if I am reading it correctly.


----------



## PaintHorseMares

nrhareiner said:


> Looks like they got rid of the one paint parent rule. YAYAYA. That means the filly out of my mare can be double reg. Will have to call and check and see if I am reading it correctly.


That's what it looks like to me, too.


----------



## nrhareiner

When I talked to them about it last year did not sound like it was even on the table. So I am a happy camper. Even if I do not own the filly anylonger.


----------



## WSArabians

Some AQHA / APHA mares:

Mares


----------



## MsBHavin

interesting


----------



## ukrhyslop

Poseidon said:


> Tobiano isn't a crop out gene because it doesn't exist in QHs at all. Frame, splash, and sabino, the three genes that fall under the blanket term "overo", all exist in the QH breed, but it was found undesirable and sent away to a different registry, which is the whole point of this thread.


That is what I said above, Tobiano is a true paint gene. According to U.C. of Davis the overo gene comes from crop outs. And the overo gene, along with its sub patterns like frame,splash, and sabino are found in other breeds here in the US too.


----------



## Poseidon

Okay first, like we already said, they are not _sub genes_. Frame, splash, and sabino are 3 _separate_ and _distinct_ genes. In fact, there are 3 testable mutations of splash alone and nobody's quite sure how many of sabino exist because only Sabino1 has been isolated. 

And secondly, frame, splash, and sabino existed within Paints before any too-colorful QHs were sent over. I would like to see where UC Davis says frame, splash, and sabino didn't exist in Paints before the cropout rule was initiated.


----------



## nrhareiner

I do not think any one is saying that Frame splash sabino are sub of Ovaro. I think what people are saying is that they all fall correctly or not under the braud overo lable.


----------



## WickedNag

I love reading this section...lots of knowledge here. Thanks everyone!


----------



## NdAppy

Heidi - ukrhyslop is saying that splash and sabino are "sub categories" of the overo gene.


----------



## Poseidon

And in all honesty, insisting that people not use the blanket term "overo" can save animals' lives. Hence why I repeated myself.


----------



## Chiilaa

ukrhyslop said:


> That is what I said above, Tobiano is a true paint gene. According to U.C. of Davis the overo gene comes from crop outs. And the overo gene, along with its sub patterns like frame,splash, and sabino are found in other breeds here in the US too.


So when you say tobiano is "true", and not a "crop out gene", do you mean that it can't hide on a horse? Because, well, that's not true. While it is not common for its expression to be so minimal that it can't really be seen by everyone, it can and does happen. 

This guy is tested, and is homozygous for tobiano.









Again, this girl is tested, and is homozygous for tobiano.









This guy is NOT tested, but his sire is and is homozygous for tobiano, so this guy MUST carry it.


----------



## gogaited

bubba13 said:


> In the link, he's saying you can MAKE clones, not register them. At this time, AQHA still does not allow for the registration of clones, although many people are pushing for it.


It's most likely just me, but I think cloning is wrong.


----------



## GotaDunQH

Citrus said:


> Either there is a timing error in the beginning of that article (it says "On Sunday at the American Quarter Horse Association Convention in San Antonio, Texas, the Stud Book and Registration Committee approved a motion that recommended that action on the member proposal to approve the registration of clones be postponed until the AQHA Convention in *2010*.")
> 
> This article is either out of date or a fact in the first paragraph is wrong, which then leads to suspicion of the whole article's accuracy.......


The Committee may have approved it, but then the Executive Committee has to approve it. I sat on the AQHA Show Committee for 5 years...and the way it works is the Committee either approves or denies a proposed rule change....THEN it is sent to the Executive Committee for final approval. And sometimes the proposed change is tabled to the next year.


----------



## harvesterdaughter

I have wondered about some of this too. I'm not sure why it all has to be so complicated. It can be really confusing.


----------



## ukrhyslop

Chiilaa said:


> So when you say tobiano is "true", and not a "crop out gene", do you mean that it can't hide on a horse? Because, well, that's not true. While it is not common for its expression to be so minimal that it can't really be seen by everyone, it can and does happen.
> 
> This guy is tested, and is homozygous for tobiano.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, this girl is tested, and is homozygous for tobiano.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy is NOT tested, but his sire is and is homozygous for tobiano, so this guy MUST carry it.


https://www.google.com/webhp?source...01f&bpcl=39967673&ion=1&biw=1280&bih=709&bs=1


----------



## ukrhyslop

*No Tobiano is a separate gene.*

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...01f&bpcl=39967673&ion=1&biw=1280&bih=709&bs=1


----------

