# Conformation Help For A Thoroughbred



## IrishHunter (Sep 5, 2012)

So I have been going back and forth on breeding for the last few years and I think next year will be the year. My horse has never been bred before and I would like some opinions on her conformation to help me decide if breeding her would really be worth it. I am thinking of a Warmblood hunter type horse. Any suggestions would be helpful. Please excuse the conformation side picture as it was raining and she was all wet from being outside.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I like this horse's structure.. but man she needs GROCERIES and training to build up her back muscles and her hind quarters. Her back bone is clealy prominant along the slope of her croup and along her loins. She has poor lines that start near her tail and go along the crease of her buttock. 

Her knees and hocks could be lower. Her neck looks a bit "hatchet" necked with the dip in front of her withers. The lack of hind quarter and a somewhat steep shoulder is the reason she jumps flat. Her knees are up and even, but she seems to lack scope. I would like a bit more bone and a bit less pastern. She is a balanced horse.. and with some weight I would like her better. 

I would not breed this horse.. even to a prepotent warmblood.. unless I saw her with more groceries on board first (besides, she might not take anyway at this weight level). If she is very hard to keep weight on, then she is not a good breeding candidate either.


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## IrishHunter (Sep 5, 2012)

Oh I know about the grocery problem. She lost a bunch of weight not too long ago and it's in the process of building back up as she can be a hard keeper. I'm thinking grain isn't enough, she needs a weight supplement for sure. More weight will definitely be on the top of the list for this winter before any actions involving breeding happen. 

Her hind end is my biggest issue with her really. As she has been doing hill work and it really hasn't helped all that much. It could be because of the lack of weight on her too.. But it is also conformational. How correctable would that be if bred to a stallion with a nicer rump?


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

IrishHunter said:


> Her hind end is my biggest issue with her really. As she has been doing hill work and it really hasn't helped all that much. It could be because of the lack of weight on her too.. But it is also conformational. How correctable would that be if bred to a stallion with a nicer rump?


The only way you will know the answer to this is to look at stallions who are much more correct and see if their offspring have inherited the same hind quarter conformation as their Father. 

If you can find other horses with the same dam as your horse and other horses with the same sire as your horse you can also see how prepotent that weak rear leg is in those. IOW's the horse you have may be as prepotent in a weak hind quarter as a stallion of your choosing is prepotent with a strong hindquarter. 

An additional question is WHY is your horse a hard keeper. If it is an underlying metabolism, you may not want to pass that on. If it is an underlying mental issue (such as is found with stall walkers, weavers and cribbers) you also may not want to breed that.


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## SaddleOnline (Oct 20, 2011)

Her angles aren't really all that great in the sense that it is someting you would like to pass along, if you compare her hip angle to her shoulder angle it looks like it could be two different horses! Long pasterns and kind of upright hocks... Overall she has a cute look, but the small hind end and lower neck attachment, on top of a possible metabolism problem...I would only do it if it was one heck of a stallion! 

Good luck! Cute Mare!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Even if you breed her to the best stallion there is you have no guarantee that its going to be what you want. A good stallion costs a lot of money and then you will have all the vet fees and cost of keeping the resulting offspring until its old enough to do anything with and all sorts of things can go wrong. If you really want a foal then go and select one at a good yard and buy that or better still buy a youngster thats been well handled and is ready to break
I actually think she's got something odd going on in the very long pronounced wither line of her back - does it make saddle fitting difficult?
She's a nice little mare but with so many horses on the market right now its not worth breeding from anything that isn't 'wonderful'


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

While she is a beautiful hunter mare and I would love to have her in my barn.
I would buy a baby or a youngster that has the color, size, temperment, sex and conformation that is exactly what I want, and not roll the dice, spend an obscene amount of money and who knows I might get lucky... but I might not.
I think people will be just about giving horses away about December.
Good luck to you!


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## IrishHunter (Sep 5, 2012)

That does definitely give me a lot of good points to think on before I go ahead and breed next year. I am by no means a conformation expert and your views are definitely helpful. If I did breed her it wouldn't be for a super top level horse and I wouldn't even sell it, it would just be for me. I'll try posting a picture later when she has put on the proper weight to see if it smooths out some of her issues? She doesn't have any cribbing/weaving stall habits to pass on, it's really more her metabolism. 

Her weight is definitely priority one on the list right now. I have heard really good reviews about the maxiglo stabilized rice bran so she is on a performance dose of that on top of her regular grain now to try and build her up. Her problem was being on a 10% fat food before and after moving her to a different barn that gives 3% fat feed... Her body didn't like that and we thought just feeding more of it would be okay but that didn't help... So now it's just trying to get it back. Hopefully this stuff does something to help her get to where she should be. 

"I actually think she's got something odd going on in the very long pronounced wither line of her back - does it make saddle fitting difficult?"
That is an old injury that she acquired in the starting gate during her short racing career. The vet checked it and it doesn't cause her any pain or discomfort it's just left from when it healed but it did make finding a saddle that fit slightly difficult. I did have to buy a different size gullet so it would fit better.


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## TimberRidgeRanch (Mar 6, 2012)

although I would hold off on breeding any mares right now I do feel she would cross very nicely with a Irish Draught you may get a really nice Irish Sport horse. Shes not all that bad for a TB other then for her weight. Breeding her to a thicker bone and build of a Stud *COULD *help out in the areas where she is flawed in. 
I do also agree that there are just so many unwanted foals now out there that are dying ( and I mean dying ) for good homes that would make exellent competition horses if given the chance. 
Either way shes a pretty TB and most TBs are hard keepers their HOT breed Try feeding her a cup of Calf Mana in her morning feed it helps to gain weight and I have yet to be disapointed by it.

TRR


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

hay hay and more hay. throw hay until she starts leave some. Or if you can, set a free feed system .


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## Centaurheart (Jul 9, 2012)

While she's a pretty TB any one if the issues listed would be a deal breaker for me. But with all of them combined you'd be crazy to breed her. Just getting her in Foal is going to be hard. Plus with a location and feed change bringing her this underweight a pregnancy might jeopardize her life.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

IrishHunter said:


> That does definitely give me a lot of good points to think on before I go ahead and breed next year. I am by no means a conformation expert and your views are definitely helpful. If I did breed her it wouldn't be for a super top level horse and I wouldn't even sell it, it would just be for me. I'll try posting a picture later when she has put on the proper weight to see if it smooths out some of her issues? She doesn't have any cribbing/weaving stall habits to pass on, it's really more her metabolism.
> 
> Her weight is definitely priority one on the list right now. I have heard really good reviews about the maxiglo stabilized rice bran so she is on a performance dose of that on top of her regular grain now to try and build her up. Her problem was being on a 10% fat food before and after moving her to a different barn that gives 3% fat feed... Her body didn't like that and we thought just feeding more of it would be okay but that didn't help... So now it's just trying to get it back. Hopefully this stuff does something to help her get to where she should be.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for explaining that - it was the only real fault in her that concerned me
Ad lib hay with daily turnout on decent grazing if possible are always the best ways to put weight on a horse without causing digestive upsets. I avoid the 'complete feeds' that are high in sugar but there are some good ones now that have addressed this issue and are balanced with all the minerals & vitamins she needs. Rice bran is good for weight gain but stick to the recommended amounts and sugar beet (no added mollasses) is also good for safe weigh gain and very high in fibre and calcium
If you do decide to breed I am also very much in favour of the Irish Draft - well I am British - the man I worked for for many years produced some great horses using the TB/ Irish Draft they were so versatile and had wonderful temperaments. He also had good results with the Hanoverian x TB though they dont often have such good quarters and thats something your mare is lacking in
My husband and I used a Section D welsh cob on our 2 TB mares one year - and they were really nice horses though the stallion was 14.3 and both mares only 15.2 the gelding grew to 16.2 - evidence of how horses can 'throw back' in their genes
It will be interesting to see how she looks as she gains weight


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Good Quality hay and a quarter cup of Corn Oil in her grain for calories can help for weight. If you do not have good quality hay (have it tested for protein, energy, ADF and NDF) then you can supplement with alfalfa cubes.


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## IrishHunter (Sep 5, 2012)

Centaurheart said:


> While she's a pretty TB any one if the issues listed would be a deal breaker for me. But with all of them combined you'd be crazy to breed her. Just getting her in Foal is going to be hard. Plus with a location and feed change bringing her this underweight a pregnancy might jeopardize her life.



If I did decide to breed her it wouldn't be tomorrow it would be next spring so any new feed/barn stresses would be long gone not to mention her weight issues. Hopefully. While I definitely agree that she needs more weight and that is a top priority right now before anything else... I think life threatening is a bit extreme for her case.


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## IrishHunter (Sep 5, 2012)

jaydee said:


> Thanks for explaining that - it was the only real fault in her that concerned me
> Ad lib hay with daily turnout on decent grazing if possible are always the best ways to put weight on a horse without causing digestive upsets. I avoid the 'complete feeds' that are high in sugar but there are some good ones now that have addressed this issue and are balanced with all the minerals & vitamins she needs. Rice bran is good for weight gain but stick to the recommended amounts and sugar beet (no added mollasses) is also good for safe weigh gain and very high in fibre and calcium
> If you do decide to breed I am also very much in favour of the Irish Draft - well I am British - the man I worked for for many years produced some great horses using the TB/ Irish Draft they were so versatile and had wonderful temperaments. He also had good results with the Hanoverian x TB though they dont often have such good quarters and thats something your mare is lacking in
> My husband and I used a Section D welsh cob on our 2 TB mares one year - and they were really nice horses though the stallion was 14.3 and both mares only 15.2 the gelding grew to 16.2 - evidence of how horses can 'throw back' in their genes
> It will be interesting to see how she looks as she gains weight


Yeah when the vet first came out after we acquired her she said she has seen injuries similar to hers from rearing in the starting gate. We got a detailed analysis of her race history and it didn't mention anything so maybe it happened in practice? The scar forms a perfect V in white hairs on the top. I had played around with the idea of an Irish stallion before, especially since we have one very local and whose babies I have competed against in some open shows while they were youngsters. They appear to be very nice even tempered babies. I attached a picture of him, hopefully it isn't too small. 

I will definitely will repost when she gains weight and looks better. Thank you for all the helpful ideas on how to safely add weight!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

IrishHunter said:


> Yeah when the vet first came out after we acquired her she said she has seen injuries similar to hers from rearing in the starting gate. We got a detailed analysis of her race history and it didn't mention anything so maybe it happened in practice? The scar forms a perfect V in white hairs on the top. I had played around with the idea of an Irish stallion before, especially since we have one very local and whose babies I have competed against in some open shows while they were youngsters. They appear to be very nice even tempered babies. I attached a picture of him, hopefully it isn't too small.
> 
> I will definitely will repost when she gains weight and looks better. Thank you for all the helpful ideas on how to safely add weight!


 That is a beautiful stallion and if you have seen his produce around and doing well its always a good recomendation
Focus on getting your mare in tip top shape and then you can really think about it. Please do weigh up all the pros and cons - as I said things can go horribly wrong and there is a lot of work involved to do the whole foal rearing job properly.
If you have this dream vision in your head of your ideal perfect horse then actually going out and buying it might be the best option for you - and way less stressful. Of all the foals I've been around by way of breeding from lovely mares and stallions there have only been a couple that I can honestly say that I felt were somehow my 'ideal horses' that I wanted to keep for my own - its as much as temperament as it is about looks and its amazing how different they all are right from birth


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