# Does this change how you think?



## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

I don't know ...
I honestly think whoever made this is extremely biased against any sort of artificial aid, such as a crop or bit. I think a lot of this is very good to announce - because there are people that are too rough in their hands that need to see this. But I also think there are some things that are a bit extreme, and a little over the top. It's like watching the news - sometimes you have to watch 2 stations to get 1 piece of solid information.


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## LoveMyDrummerBoy (Nov 5, 2009)

I don't know. It does seem pretty extreme. I'm really careful about how I use my hands and what bits go in my horse's mouth, and I've seen really cringe-worthy use of the reins, but what about the riders that know how to use their hands? They seem to be marked as irrelevant in this video.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Bahahahaha! Oh Nevzarov... you never disappoint. 
Of course a bit will hurt when it's cranked like some of those riders are showing - clearly that is not proper riding. A bit is a communication tool. I expect my horse to accept the bit and work into the contact, and in return I promise to have nice hands that will allow him to not be afraid of that contact.
Some people will always abuse power. 
Nevzarov is a hoot. I love at 5:57 when the jaw snaps off the foam horse. I love all the "suuuper serious study in a lab" shots and the autopsy shots .... when NOTHING is explained. "Here's some horse flesh with a weird black splotch. We'll show you photos of a horse being whipped and hope that you think that this black splotch that we aren't explaining is a bruise caused by a whip right before the horse was killed for dissection. Yeah." "Hey!!!!! Look at the damage some guy in a lab coat can do with a whip and a piece of foam!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!!"


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Once I saw who put it out, I ignored it. The guy is trying to talk to his horses in Latin, for goodness sakes! He believes all riding is evil.

Yeah, some folks have rough hands. They shouldn't. Any instructor knows that, and most riders know it. My horses ride better with a bit than without, because they like the more precise transfer of information possible with a bit - and they both like to know what is expected of them. I rode them for 3 years bitless, and with a bit now, and they are happier and more responsive now.

No objections to anyone who wants to ride bitless. Just saying I've tried a lot of variations, and my horses seem happiest and most responsive with a simple full cheek or D-ring snaffle. YMMV.


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

bsms said:


> The guy is trying to talk to his horses in Latin, for goodness sakes! He believes all riding is evil.
> 
> .


Well, I will be most impressed when his horses respond back in Latin. ha ha I do believe that every bit can have a negative effect as I believe that some bits should be outlawed. I don't think people should use harsh bits in place of proper training from the beginning and I would LOVE to know people off their horses when I see the horses bleeding from their mouths due to jerking on their horses mouths. 

I am not familiar with this guy and I can obviously see it is a one sided, extreem view. That said, there is a valid (though distorted) point to it. For me, it is always a good reminder to remember the horse first. Not that I forgot. Like I said, I tend to ride with soft hands.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Bahahahaha! Oh Nevzarov... you never disappoint.
> Of course a bit will hurt when it's cranked like some of those riders are showing - clearly that is not proper riding. A bit is a communication tool. I expect my horse to accept the bit and work into the contact, and in return I promise to have nice hands that will allow him to not be afraid of that contact.
> Some people will always abuse power.
> Nevzarov is a hoot. I love at 5:57 when the jaw snaps off the foam horse. I love all the "suuuper serious study in a lab" shots and the autopsy shots .... when NOTHING is explained. "Here's some horse flesh with a weird black splotch. We'll show you photos of a horse being whipped and hope that you think that this black splotch that we aren't explaining is a bruise caused by a whip right before the horse was killed for dissection. Yeah." "Hey!!!!! Look at the damage some guy in a lab coat can do with a whip and a piece of foam!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!!"


 *snort* I love you :lol:


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## Ink (Sep 25, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Bahahahaha! Oh Nevzarov... you never disappoint.
> Of course a bit will hurt when it's cranked like some of those riders are showing - clearly that is not proper riding. A bit is a communication tool. I expect my horse to accept the bit and work into the contact, and in return I promise to have nice hands that will allow him to not be afraid of that contact.
> Some people will always abuse power.
> Nevzarov is a hoot. I love at 5:57 when the jaw snaps off the foam horse. I love all the "suuuper serious study in a lab" shots and the autopsy shots .... when NOTHING is explained. "Here's some horse flesh with a weird black splotch. We'll show you photos of a horse being whipped and hope that you think that this black splotch that we aren't explaining is a bruise caused by a whip right before the horse was killed for dissection. Yeah." "Hey!!!!! Look at the damage some guy in a lab coat can do with a whip and a piece of foam!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!!"



I also like how NONE of the bits in the "lab tests" were connected to a headstall. LOL A curb bit works off pressure to the poll as well. And the computer generated bits were a riot too. I've never in my life seen a curb bit sit straight up and down in a horse's mouth like that. You'd have to have a very loose curb strap and be yanking the heck out of your horse for that to happen, but somehow that's where the bit starts every time it cuts to that silly computer graphic. If your port is banging the horse in the roof of the mouth, you're doing something wrong. 

Oh yes, and what exactly were they trying to prove by beating a piece of clay with a crop at a *completely different angle *than you would even be able to hit a horse at when mounted? I was very confused at that point. Silly, silly people. 

I've seen other videos by this guy. They're equally terrible, and frankly inaccurate. While bits have the ability to cause pain and/or harm, the more than often do not, especially in quiet respectful hands. My mare practically grabs the bit out of my hand every time I put the bridle on, and takes forever to spit it back out when we're done. Clearly she is an animal that is in extreme duress every time I put one of those "evil" contraptions in her mouth :lol:


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Haha, that was certainly amusing! JDI said it best. I think my favorite parts are when they snap the clay/foam horse's lower jaw off with the curb [because that happens all the time in real life, dontchaknow] and the CGI that tried to say a horse galloping is painful to its lungs and face [because horses don't ever run, ever].
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> Haha, that was certainly amusing! JDI said it best. I think my favorite parts are when they snap the clay/foam horse's lower jaw off with the curb [because that happens all the time in real life, dontchaknow] and the CGI that tried to say a horse galloping is painful to its lungs and face [because horses don't ever run, ever].
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Course it does! That's why us Dressage riders buy horses with jaws of steel. Ulla's horses have the strongest jaws of the game, she tends to ski off their lower jaw with the curb. I suspect she has reinforced its jaw with diamonds and steel


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I don't remember ensuring my Ricci had jaws of steel. Things are gonna get awful unpleasant when I snap her lower jaw off. Le sigh. I'll pay better attention to my purchases next time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> I don't remember ensuring my Ricci had jaws of steel. Things are gonna get awful unpleasant when I snap her lower jaw off. Le sigh. I'll pay better attention to my purchases next time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Very poor buying skills on your behalf *shakes head and sighs* That is the first thing I check in my new horses - the best way to determine a steel jaw vs a foam jaw, is to put a leather strap in their mouth, where the bit sits, and tie as many bricks as you can to the end of it. If their jaw snaps off, you know the horse is a dud.


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## StarfireSparrow (Jan 19, 2009)

I was going to put my two cents in, but it seems that everyone has already covered all the nonsense in that video. The CGI stuff had me chuckling. I also loved how everyone who was testing the pressure of the bit was holding the reins upside down. Yes, I am sure they all have a great deal of experience with horses and riding since they had some kid put on the outfit.


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## AsBr96 (Oct 8, 2012)

i think this is a bit to the extreme... i know i dont ride my horses like that, and i bit should never be that loose in a horses mouth, you have it tight enough in the first place so its not bouncing around everywheres... i see where they are coming from as there is some stupid people out there, but you dont see this often...


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Kayty said:


> Very poor buying skills on your behalf *shakes head and sighs* That is the first thing I check in my new horses - the best way to determine a steel jaw vs a foam jaw, is to put a leather strap in their mouth, where the bit sits, and tie as many bricks as you can to the end of it. If their jaw snaps off, you know the horse is a dud.


Great, thanks for the tips! I'll make sure to be a better buyer next time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Ricci, clearly you haven't attended Anky's clinic on purchasing a dressage horse...

Oops, did I cross a line there?
Giggle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Back2Horseback (Mar 21, 2012)

I am SCARILY cautious when it comes to the softness of my hands. I personally ride with light contact and my trainer's horse is very aware of the SLIGHTEST hand movement on my part (she lets me know with a light "yank" back on the bit if anything I do inadvertently bonks her in the wee-est unpleasant manner in the mouth)...

I'm thrilled she does that...she's taught me to go from being merely soft-handed to being aware of the fact that each time I shorten a rein, turn a wrist, etc...she FEELS IT in her mouth and so my movements are very careful, always NECESSARY and never excessive and if I do a gentle, fluid half-check with the reins to get her thinking about what WE'RE doing, it's NEVER sudden. Its a warned movement wherein often I can move my 4th finger or pinky 1/4 inch and she's already on the same page.

I ride in a French link Dee ring snaffle....she's so sensitive (& my lower level riding/no showing in my future ever) means that spurs/crop aren't required. These tools can be highly effective and necessary and I MOST OFTEN SEE THEM USED CORRECTLY and I'm certainly NOT AGAINST THEIR USE. However at my basic English pleasure with hopes to progress to jumping, for pleasure and not to show, those items will lino ever be a part of my NECESSARY tools...

Sorry to ramble. Folks should (G-d willing) REALLY TAKE A GIANT STEP BACK IF A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G they're doing resembles any of that hard-handed riding in the video...I'd die of shame and humiliation if I ever treated ANY HORSE'S MOUTH/psyche that way...)
B2H


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## heymckate (Nov 23, 2010)

I can't believe I just wasted eight and a half minutes of my life watching that. No scientific ANYTHING in there. As always, ridiculous.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Does it change my mind about what? That Nevzorov is as crazy as a bedbug? Nope, didn't do anything except cement my belief in that! :wink:


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## karliejaye (Nov 19, 2011)

YES! This does change how I think! It makes me realize how important it is to clearly explain things to others and inform them of appropriate use of aids and how they can be mis-used. Because ignorance breeds this sort of extreme rubbish. 
CAN a bit do that sort of harm? Well, sure, if you are riding like a barbarian. That is why education is so vital.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Oh that's it! I am all changed in my way of thinking now. I am going to throw away all my bits & other riding gear and turn my horses loose to be free as nature intended as not to cause the red heat pain in them!:wink:


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Nevzorov having an ax to grind? Wow, who knew!


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## Ink (Sep 25, 2009)

It's also wonderful that this guy deletes any comments to the video that aren't something along the lines of "Oh poor horses! Bits are so evil they should be outlawed!" *insert eye roll here*


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Well, I already felt really bad for the horses with riders like this. Does it make me want to not use a bit? no... It might change someones mind who thought that riding with hard hands and throwing your body weight against the reins was ok. I agree to with this video to some extent. I agree that all bits can be used the worng way and that many "top" riders can get overly agressive. I don't agree that all forms of bit usage and riding are hurful to a horse, though.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

*Sarcastic* Hey guys, did you sign the petition against ALL equestrian sports in the description!? Better get on that, wouldn't want horses to have to work or anything like that...


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## Radiowaves (Jul 27, 2010)

Inga said:


> I just watched this video. I wonder, does this change how you think or how you will do things, or do you just think it is bull?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't see "bad bits".... I see "bad riders". None of those people would EVER be allowed on any of my horses, I don't care who they are or what kind of credentials they have. Period.

A lot of the snatching on the reins that I saw in that video appeared to have anger/aggravation/frustration behind it and if that's the case, then the rider needs to dismount and go cool off for a while. I don't care what the venue nor how much money is riding on that particular event. No amount of money or fame justifies mistreatment of a horse. Never.

I agree that those are apparently extreme cases and I definitely agree that the producer has an agenda, but the events depicted did happen....

The "snatching" is particularly bad, in my opinion. A controlled "pull" that allows a horse time to yield to the pressure when it reaches a sufficient level is a lot different from the abrupt yanking in that video. If the rider thinks he/she has to snatch the reins that hard/abruptly in order to get the horse's attention, then it's time for training, not yanking.

For cryin out loud, a bit is for communication, not pain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Radiowaves (Jul 27, 2010)

Sorry for including the video link in the above quote... When I realized that it was in there and tried to take it out the system had already locked me out of editing the post.... Can't imagine why there is a timeout on editing my own post... Oh well...

Also, I'm not saying that the video is right on target. The mechanical model stuff is very flawed and the CG stuff is only showing what they want it to show. But there is some really bad riding going on in those clips...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tim62988 (Aug 30, 2012)

serious competitive riders + hot head horses is pretty much just a set up for harsh hands.

the video doesn't turn me off to using a bit becuase at this point my horse needs it. at 120pounds vs probably 1000pounds, a slight bit of mechanical leverage for everyone's safety really isn't a bad thing when used properly.


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## iRide Ponies (Aug 10, 2012)

The whole *jaws of steel thing* = A new meaning to the term hard mouthed?


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