# Stalls with runs or just a stall?



## Aprilswissmiss (May 12, 2019)

I would do neither and have the stall lead directly out into his pasture, if possible! I highly prefer 24/7 turnout (with 24/7 access to his stall, of course). That way, he can decide when he wants out, and decide when he wants his fluffy bedding. I like sand to reduce mud, but be mindful of sand colic and make sure you don't feed over the sand. If your horse doesn't have a problem picking up his feet, you can build a board into the space between his stall and run or pasture to prevent bedding and/or hay falling onto the sand.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Putting your stall lower than your run invites inadequate drainage in the stall. In all the boarding situations I had that had stalls for options there were runs. It is handy and can be a boon if you find yourself in a situation that needs a smaller area than a large pen or pasture. My favorite was the barn that had a large run for every 3 12X12 stalls. Worked out perfect when you couldn't turn out. Big enough all three could give each other space or you could lock a couple in and let one out at a time.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Add the runs. I have a 6-stall barn I barely ever use because it’s just 12x12 stalls with no out options (and due to its location, no way to add runs) and all my horses hate that.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I agree if the stall floor was lower than the run, you might have the stall flooded at certain times. If the shavings blow out maybe put a sill or something in the doorway that the horse can step over and this should help keep the shavings in the stall.
I would have the stall and a run with a gate out to pasture so the horse has pasture but can be locked off it at times so he doesn't get too fat but can still have the stall and run available to him. with all that, a pretty good life for your boy.

We have stalls in the barn and a barnyard with a large run in 15x36 which is the back part of the barn and a gate that leads out to pasture.

The back third of the barn is separated by a wall and divided into two large run ins. ONe on the south side with the barnyard and the other on the north side with a paddock and large doors so a good cross breeze. As far as I am concerned this is the best arrangement for the horses. Lots of turn out but a stall available for them if they like to come in and on some days they do like to have a rest in their stall in the main barn.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Your stall needs to be higher than the ground surface. If you need to keep shavings in the stall, add a board/step in the front of the stall. 

Sand runs are fine if the ground is level. If you don't have level ground you will have erosion with sand.


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## Feathers7 (Jun 11, 2019)

Y'know, my mare is claustrophobic. I originally wanted to have two 12x12 stalls, each with a large gate that opens up to the paddock. My idea was that this gate could be kept open most of the time. But my design ideas were not implemented, and the large gate was replaced by dutch doors. So the stalls are literally boxes and my mare doesn't find them comfortable. If anything, she -sometimes- likes to just stand half in with her head out. I've had to do something similar to trailer training in order to get her to go in and stand in the stall. But since you're incorporating windows, that might be preferable to a run. Reason being is if you have wet/slushy weather, runs tend to get muddy - muddier than turnout. Even runs that go downhill can have this problem - the horses skid. So stall left open to directly larger turnout gets my vote. Less work for you, more pleasant for the horses, less risk of mud related health problems?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

A 1"x6" board will keep your deeply bedded stall bedding as much in place as can be expected.
Your horse will learn to pick up his feet going in or out.
Build level or actually above grade since you say it rains you will have compaction of soil in a pattern going into/out of the stall and have flooding a real possibilty with inclement weather.

For me, I *would* do a paddock separate fenced with a gate that leads to the pasture.
You mentioned rain...
To me that means you at times must limit pasture access for safety reasons of slick and slippery, more importantly if you have several days of rain your pastures will be easily trampled and ruined...
Yes, one horse can do quite a bit of damage to a pasture when soggy footing is happening.

When you design and build the barn...*build high.*
Put a solid pad under the barn structure and your attached paddock so you have water run-off and if you have flooding rains you not flood...it happens and is very costly when you lose your feed, hay and bedded stalls and then also lose use of your barn for protection of your horse.
Not knowing where you live...different areas of the country use different materials to build building pads based on what is available and your year-round weather.
I _am_ serious when I say go 1' -2' higher than grade with pad sloped/graded to the pasture...
Speak to true barn builders, ask around to those who have backyard barns for several years...
Come your rainy season not this year but in a few years when land has settled, compacted and shifted slightly you will appreciate the effort and small extra expense you make now..._promise._

Remember when figuring fencing, you make openings for maintenance issues of 16' wide gates.
Add 6' walk-through also but when you need to get a truck in to dump dirt, a tractor in to grade, a tractor to the pasture to mow, a truck into the pasture to re-seed and put down weed & feed at appropriate times to keep your pasture in good condition it can be done with ease.Not pre-planning to make your existence stress-free is stressful when you suddenly are confronted with issue after issue._ :|
_
Enjoy your project.
:runninghorse2:...
_jmo..._


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> I would do neither and have the stall lead directly out into his pasture, if possible! I highly prefer 24/7 turnout (with 24/7 access to his stall, of course). That way, he can decide when he wants out, and decide when he wants his fluffy bedding. I like sand to reduce mud, but be mindful of sand colic and make sure you don't feed over the sand. If your horse doesn't have a problem picking up his feet, you can build a board into the space between his stall and run or pasture to prevent bedding and/or hay falling onto the sand.


This is my set-up, and the horses love it! 

I have 3 horses but 4 stalls and the whole barn is built inside the pasture. Each stall has a front and back door that are left open except for feed or waiting on farrier or such. 

My horses have the freedom to come and go as they please and they love it. All the stalls are matted and there is a 4" board in front to hold in the shavings. 

My 24 yr old spends a lot of time in the stall, because she is arthritic so she enjoys the rubber mats to stand on.


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## Mika (Aug 28, 2019)

I have 3 horses and a 6 stall barn. I so wish my stalls opened on the back to the pasture! But multiple people have told me cutting into the barn to make turn out doors would be a bad idea. boo.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Have ours set-up where they can come and go as they please. Barn opens into a corral that I can use for a dry/mud lot if need be and the corrals open to the pasture.


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## BurntBuckskin (Jul 3, 2018)

Thank you for the great tips from everyone. I will definitely be designing my paddocks off the stalls with a board to trap in shavings. I'm leaning towards a sand paddock (he will only be fed in the stall). And he has never had an issue with sand. We also have the luxury of building the pasture right off the paddock/barn to allow turnout 24/7 if desired. I'll probably stick with that idea. 

Thank you for talking me into it!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I really like my set up, which is two stalls with separate runs, with a large overhang shading a considerable portion of the runs. The runs have a gate between them so a single paddock with two stalls is one possible configuration. There are gates from the paddock into three small (around 2 acres each) pasture , so that I can rotate grazing. The stable is on top of a hill so drainage is excellent. 

One reason I like my set up so much is that it is extremely flexible. I can close off stalls, or stalls with runs, I can open any pasture gate and the horses will have pasture and shelter however they please. I don't have to supply the pastures with water and minerals, both of which are sheltered and easy to monitor. In the short time I've been here I've had to use every configuration, and have been very grateful that it is all ready to go whenever I need it.

Although the stalls are only 11 x 12, it works fine because firstly, my horses are small, and secondly, I never close them into their stalls except for blizzards. For larger horses I would want 14 x 14 though.


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## Cee Niteman (Sep 24, 2019)

I would always choose a run. Horses stay healthy by moving a lot, so the more area they have to walk around the better! I do prefer pasture though to either option though with a stall only in case of injury or before a show. When I saw the difference in my first two horses when switching from stalled to pastured, I felt regret for all the time they had been stalled. They were so much happier and more relaxed.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

horselovinguy;1970773861
For me said:


> *would*[/U] do a paddock separate fenced with a gate that leads to the pasture.
> 
> If I had the opportunity to build a new barn, I would do this ^^^^^^^^^^^^.
> 
> Our stalls open to a covered area open to the pasture.


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## Cynical25 (Mar 7, 2013)

Stalls that open to runs and/or have gates opening to pasture is ideal, IMO.

That said, I love the freedom & efficiency of my loafing shed/run-in shelter, and laugh about how worried I was about not having stalls when I moved in! I can fill the water tub while I feed both horses, pick up all manure in the 15x33' shelter, open/close the paddock gate to prevent/allow pasture access, and be back in the house within 10 minutes. No time needed to halter & lead horses to other locations, no time or money wasted on shavings, just a $125 load of sand every 3ish years for comfy sleeping and good drainage. I can easily put up corral panels if I need to create a "stall" to separate horses. With my long commute to work, I honestly wouldn't have the time or energy to properly maintain stalls and keep my sanity.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I do think it's great for the horses to have lots of room and access to pasture but I would want a gate to pasture to close it off at times because they can get too much grass and then put on weight so sometimes it's good to be able to limit the pasture time.
Lots of gates and combinations at our barn and I think it's great, different access for different times and needs.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Aprilswissmiss said:


> I would do neither and have the stall lead directly out into his pasture, if possible! I highly prefer 24/7 turnout (with 24/7 access to his stall, of course). That way, he can decide when he wants out, and decide when he wants his fluffy bedding. I like sand to reduce mud, but be mindful of sand colic and make sure you don't feed over the sand. If your horse doesn't have a problem picking up his feet, you can build a board into the space between his stall and run or pasture to prevent bedding and/or hay falling onto the sand.



This is what I do and I love it, and so do my horses! All three share a 12 x 24 double stall with two ways in and out leading into the paddock which then leads to the pasture. They all get along so it works out great and they choose when they want in or out.


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## ThinkIcan (Feb 22, 2019)

*Lots of good stuff, onto the sand*

Lots of great set-ups described. Mine is similar with two stalls leading to a common sacrifice lot which then opens to the pasture. I have arena gravel/sand on the lot currently and so far it is helping with the mud. Given a whole set-up from scratch, I would have put a serious draining gravel base under this portion. 

There are some interesting set-ups I saw on-line (in Europe?) where horses are allowed 'herd housing' even indoors. A large indoor space was covered with bedding and the horses were all there in one group. They claimed it helped with all sort of behavioral issues, but with one horse, probably not too interesting for OP. i just thought it was neat, challenging our traditional stall set-up.

Are you building new, or converting multi-use building for horses? Also, curious curious why the 16' x 16' stalls. I found the 12' lumber and pre-built kits are in the 'sweet spot' for affordability. With all the run/pasture access, I would not dedicate the money and floor space on the larger stall. I only restrict my mare to her stall for certain periods of time, and i tend to think if I ever do traveling (clinic, show, vacation board, etc) it is probably good for her to be used to the more standard confinement size, but that is just my thoughts.

It is easy to want to prioritize for our horses, after all this is all for them! But don't forget to have a good space for tacking up/farrier/vet work.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

Oh, do make the barn higher than the surrounding land!!! I didn't do that, and now am looking at having to install French drains, re-grading my paddock, etc.

The ground around my barn varies from a few inches below my barn to a few inches above, and every single time it rains my stalls are wet. Last year the ground froze, melted, re-froze, rained, snowed, melted again and I had three inches of ice coating my stalls, feed room and tack room. 

It was a huge mess and I ended up hauling manure into the barn for traction and covering it with shavings. Anything sitting on the floor was ruined and my horses hooves... I don't even wanna TALK about it!

My stalls open into a small dry paddock (which is also mud for half the year) which I like. If you can have a separate dry paddock that is, for me, a great scenario. I wouldn't want my stalls opening directly into a large field, but a small dry paddock is perfect.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ThinkIcan said:


> There are some interesting set-ups I saw on-line (in Europe?) where horses are allowed 'herd housing' even indoors. A large indoor space was covered with bedding and the horses were all there in one group. They claimed it helped with all sort of behavioral issues, but with one horse, probably not too interesting for OP. i just thought it was neat, challenging our traditional stall set-up.
> 
> 
> It is easy to want to prioritize for our horses, after all this is all for them! But don't forget to have a good space for tacking up/farrier/vet work.



To build on these comments, as mentioned above, I converted two stalls, each with a dutch door leading out to the paddock, into one large 24 x 12 area. The three horses share it happily, and if one gets cranky, the others can exit through two large doorways. I can also close the bottom door, leaving the top open, and there is a 10' x 24' overhang that protects the stalls and provides even more shelter. Water is kept under the overhang, and hard feed is provided in the stall. I also finished a third, separate 9 x 11 stall so I can separate a horse if I need to. I also saved the boards that separated the two 12 x 12 stalls and installed two 2 x 4 to create a groove on both sides so I can just slide in the boards and instantly have two stalls again. I have not found it necessary to do that yet, but I'm glad I can do it quickly and easily if it ever became necessary to go back to separate stalls (if I had added a new horse, for example, and wanted to make sure they all accept each other, or if one has to go on stall rest). The night before a show, I will put Harley in the double stall by himself so he doesn't get dirty, and I leave the tops open so he can still touch the other two horses who spend the night under the overhang. The first night Rusty, our newest addition, spent here, I put my other two in the double stall together, and left him out in the paddock with the tops of the doors open so they could get to know each other safely. It works really well, and gives us a great deal of flexibility. 

Finally, I made the middle aisle 12 feet wide so there is room to put a horse on cross ties, do body work, etc. I LOVE my wide aisle. Everything is very open, so ventilation is excellent. Horses are moving around a lot, and are free to come and go, so if a sudden storm breaks out and I'm not home, they just come in until it passes. I can't imagine having to lead horses in and out of pastures and paddocks every day, several times a day. This is the most natural way for them to live -- in a small herd and with free choice of movement -- and the easiest. It's a no-brainer for me. But of course, if you have many horses, it's harder to let them all live together unless you have a much bigger space, and it would be difficult with horses who may not always get along. The other issue I could foresee is having horses that have very different dietary needs. Then you'd need separate runs so they don't get into each other's forage. Which is why I only have little horses


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## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

ThinkIcan said:


> There are some interesting set-ups I saw on-line (in Europe?) where horses are allowed 'herd housing' even indoors. A large indoor space was covered with bedding and the horses were all there in one group. They claimed it helped with all sort of behavioral issues, but with one horse, probably not too interesting for OP. i just thought it was neat, challenging our traditional stall set-up.


Many years ago when I started with horses, the barn I rode at had this exact set up...BUT only for the ponies! The horses all were put up at night in stall. 

The ponies had a communal building attached to the back of the barn. It had a large sliding door at either end and a big long trough along the wall. Food was poured into the trough and they were all fed together. My first pony had to live in there even though he was a boarder. The manure and mud would pile up in there, and they used a tractor once a week to clean it out. The place was a muddy mess, and I wouldn't recommend this type of living for a large herd. Under 4 it may work, but they need to be very compatible or not feed grain at all. There was a lot of squealing and kicking out at feeding time :frown_color:



ThinkIcan said:


> Are you building new, or converting multi-use building for horses? Also, curious curious why the 16' x 16' stalls. I found the 12' lumber and pre-built kits are in the 'sweet spot' for affordability. With all the run/pasture access, I would not dedicate the money and floor space on the larger stall. I only restrict my mare to her stall for certain periods of time, and i tend to think if I ever do traveling (clinic, show, vacation board, etc) it is probably good for her to be used to the more standard confinement size, but that is just my thoughts.
> 
> It is easy to want to prioritize for our horses, after all this is all for them! But don't forget to have a good space for tacking up/farrier/vet work.


Agree that 12x12 is plenty. I have three 10x12 and one 12x12. Works fine. In a prior barn I had a 10x15 stall, for new horses as it was across the aisle from the others. Sometimes I put two buddy geldings together in there! They liked it fine. 

My stalls are only used for really bad weather or just occasional practice. Main purpose of the stalls is for separate feeding. I have a 10x12 wash/grooming/farrier area that is covered. Cement with rubber pads over it. The horses sometimes stand there too.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Yes, I think the issue with the setup AnitaAnne is describing above is that the ponies were shut in. I never shut all three horses in the double stall. They come in on their own, and happily get along knowing they can escape if need be. If I need to keep them in for whatever reason (which almost never happens), I put one in the third stall so only two are in the double stall - Kodak and Rusty because they are bffs. So if shutting horses in is important, then make sure it can be done without all of them being enclosed in a small space.


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