# Ex-Broodmare Critique



## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Is she pregnant at present? She looks either very pregnant or very obese. Miniatures are typically very easy keepers and don't require much, if any, grain.


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## megm5441 (Mar 7, 2011)

Should her stomach look like that? How long ago did she foal last?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Monkey mouth? I think she has a cute mouth!


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

On the topic of her belly: She is NOT pregnant. We sold our stallion before she sold (a month before) and our colts were gelded in October and March. She foaled April 30th. 

She is NOT overweight. The belly has nothing to do with her being obese (She's about a 5/6 on the scale and weights about 240lbs). She has been pregnant 6 times and her belly has dropped gradually after each one. 

The belly is there even if she is underweight (last spring/fall she was ribby and hippy. I'll post pictures when I get home for proof) She is wormed regularly too. 

So no. She is not pregnant. The belly is just her and it doesn't go away when she's severly underweight. She also isn't an easy keeper. She requires grain to keep her healthy. I feed her Purina's Miniature Horse & Pony. 

It is suspected that her pre-pubic tendon is stretched, but it hasn't been proven. But, her belly doesn't bother her. As you can tell by her jumping pictures and videos. She flies over the jumps!

She does have a monkey mouth. She has an underbite. But only one of her foals ever inherited it. 

I'll have to post pictures of her from after he first foal (2006) and of her skinny in 2010.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Have you found a farrier yet? Her feet are scary still.


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

HowClever said:


> Have you found a farrier yet? Her feet are scary still.


Not yet. The ones that I called never called me back; unfortunately. I was really bummed about that. BUT, my vet gave me some recommendations so I'll be looking forward to calling them on my day off this week. (Thursday)

And there's a QH/Paint breeder not too far away from me (15 minutes?) that I'm going to try and call tomorrow. 

I got kind of behind on that with FFA/baling/chickens/fair all smack dab in this month. 

I have about four numbers that I'll be calling. 

The whole farrier thing scares the crap out of me since I don't want to get a crappy one and that is really a hard thing to sift through. It makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it. Its a huge responsibility and it makes me nervous. 

Its like, I can handle the training, foaling (watching, lol), vet, feeding, research, care, but farriery is a HUGE responsibility and I have to find a really good one. That and one that is willing to trim seven minis. I don't want to mess up! 

Ok, I'm going to just hit, "Submit Reply" but I'm getting the shivers now. Grrr.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Tremor said:


> Not yet. The ones that I called never called me back; unfortunately. I was really bummed about that. BUT, my vet gave me some recommendations so I'll be looking forward to calling them on my day off this week. (Thursday)
> 
> And there's a QH/Paint breeder not too far away from me (15 minutes?) that I'm going to try and call tomorrow.
> 
> ...


This is very disappointing. That is all I will say.


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## Freda (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm sorry, but anyone and I do mean anyone that breeds any creature of Gods as often as you did, doesn't need any animals. No wonder she has a stretched or torn abd ligament. And for shame on those hooves. I'm a busy person too but my animals get taken care of !!!!!!!! And thats my only reply.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Tremor said:


> She is NOT overweight. The belly has nothing to do with her being obese (She's about a 5/6 on the scale and weights about 240lbs). She has been pregnant 6 times and her belly has dropped gradually after each one.


That sounds rather strange. I have a friend who breeds and her mares don't have a belly to the ground. Did vet look at her by any chance?


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## MicKey73 (Dec 26, 2010)

This is probably going to come off worse than I mean it so....sorry in advance, but why is it you bred her so much when you have all of these flaws identified?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

MicKey73 said:


> This is probably going to come off worse than I mean it so....sorry in advance, but why is it you bred her so much when you have all of these flaws identified?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 BINGO. My other question is, why breed her and _then_ ask for a critique on her? Shouldn't you know her faults before you replicate them?


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## megm5441 (Mar 7, 2011)

I just want to know why you would continue to breed her when you NOTICE her belly dropping/stretching further each time....


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

Let's not bash. Although I don't agree with the OP's decisions, what's done is done. Yelling at her won't change anything. 

You DO need to find a farrier. Soon. If you don't like the one you choose, look for another.


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Well, lets put it this way. 

My LOVES fluffy mini babies. he bought a mare...and a stud. Made some babies and sold the stud this past spring. 

My vet has seen her, but has never mentioned anything about it. We're getting her teeth floated so I'm going to ask her about it. 

On the topic of her hooves, yeppers. I've been in contact with my vet for recommendations and I've called around for the farriers of various breeding facilities. I have quite the list to call and weed out whether or not they do minis.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

ilovemyPhillip said:


> Let's not bash. Although I don't agree with the OP's decisions, what's done is done. Yelling at her won't change anything.
> 
> You DO need to find a farrier. Soon. If you don't like the one you choose, look for another.


No it won't change the past, that is done, but maybe people are hoping to change the future?

If you post in the critique section you are asking for feedback, and you are going to get positive, negative, knowledgeable, ignorant, useful and downright dangerous comments, advice and suggestions, that is just the way of message boards.

It seems that the OP here is happy to answer questions and talk to people, I'm sure that she is capable of asking people not to yell if she thinks they are.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

OP is correct on finding a farrier who will work on minis. It breaks your back and there is a few around here who won't touch 'em.


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> It seems that the OP here is happy to answer questions and talk to people, I'm sure that she is capable of asking people not to yell if she thinks they are.


Nobody's yelling, lol. 

I'm a big girl and can handle forums. Plus, everybody is being civil. 

People poke me, I'll poke back. People push, I'll keep poking. Lol. I try to be constant and put a smile on. Maybe even laugh a couple times. 

The internet is no reason to get angry over; like most people do. Especially when it comes to critiques. 

I asked for a critique to see if anybody could see anything that I couldn't. At the moment, everybody is just asking normal questions. That IS expected of a newbie.

(Note, that was directed really at you Golden Horse. Mostly to ilovemyPhillip...indirectly at least. lol)

Heck. This thread is tame. 

@Freda, could you explain what an ABD ligament is for me?


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## ponyjocky (Apr 12, 2010)

That poor thing. Omg


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

ponyjocky said:


> That poor thing. Omg


Thanks for you opinion. :thumbsup:

Feel free to elaborate.


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## MicKey73 (Dec 26, 2010)

^^ you funny Tremor
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Tremor said:


> (Note, that was directed really at you Golden Horse. Mostly to ilovemyPhillip...indirectly at least. lol)


Color confused, you need to try that phrase again cos I didn't get which of us it was directed at:?:


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

MicKey73 said:


> ^^ you funny Tremor
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's so funny? I asked for a critique and if somebody has an opinion I want to know why. I'm not trying to cause a war. Just see what more people think and can elaborate on than just what I see. 

I'd rather people tell me what they think/feel then me not see something that needs changed. If it IS something that I know needs changed, then great. We're on the same page. If not, then great. I know something else that needs changed. 

My herd will never improve if I don't know everything that needs changed. 

Plus, I *try* not to get butt hurt. I think I'm doing pretty good considering the fact that somebody said that I don't deserve to own horses. That's their opinion. Not mine obviously. Nor my parents'; since they're adiment (spelling?) about keeping our current herd. 

*I* think I've done well. I've gotten my entire herd back up to weight and I'm having the vet out soon for floating. That's pretty dang awesome since I'm doing something my parents' never thought of doing. (They still don't know what floating is, but I've talked it even to stress the importance of it.)



Golden Horse said:


> Color confused, you need to try that phrase again cos I didn't get which of us it was directed at:?:



Eeek! Sorry, lol. My bad. :lol:

That was mostly directed at ilovemyphillip. Not you, but I quoted you since you said pretty much the truth.


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## MicKey73 (Dec 26, 2010)

I was being serious. I thought it was funny. I took it that you meant it sarcastically, thumbs up and all  and sarcasm tends to make me laugh. I also wasn't trying to start a war...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

MicKey73 said:


> I was being serious. I thought it was funny. I took it that you meant it sarcastically, thumbs up and all  and sarcasm tends to make me laugh. I also wasn't trying to start a war...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Rofl. Glad I made somebody laugh.


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## Eliz (Jun 16, 2010)

I never thought about farriers not wanting to do mini's hooves? Maybe someone should sell miniature rasps & such 

On a serious note, is there anything you can do for her belly? Have you talked to the vet at all about it? It could help her athleticism and general comfort.


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Eliz said:


> I never thought about farriers not wanting to do mini's hooves? Maybe someone should sell miniature rasps & such
> 
> On a serious note, is there anything you can do for her belly? Have you talked to the vet at all about it? It could help her athleticism and general comfort.


Yep, lol. Because of height and attitude mostly. A lot of minis are kind of bratty. I've worked with mine and there's only 2 that don't mind. Two out of 7. (Still haven't added a yearling to my Horse list. So, not to mislead anybody!)

Depending on what's causing it, maybe. I'll be having my vet out in a couple weeks to do teeth.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Tremor said:


> The whole farrier thing scares the crap out of me since I don't want to get a crappy one and that is really a hard thing to sift through. It makes me sick to my stomach just thinking about it. Its a huge responsibility and it makes me nervous.
> 
> Its like, I can handle the training, foaling (watching, lol), vet, feeding, research, care, but farriery is a HUGE responsibility and I have to find a really good one. That and one that is willing to trim seven minis. I don't want to mess up!


Yes, farriers are a huge responsibility, but so is everything else you are doing (training, breeding, feeding, etc.). I have been trimming my own horse's hooves for many years now, and they are trail ridden barefoot and are sound and doing really well. So it's not an impossible thing for an owner to do. 

While you want to get the best farrier you can, there is also a danger in letting the feet get too long. I think it would be better to get a imperfect trim than none at all. Just my opinion though.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Tremor said:


> Yep, lol. Because of height and *attitude mostly*. A lot of minis are kind of bratty. I've worked with mine and there's only 2 that don't mind. Two out of 7. (Still haven't added a yearling to my Horse list. So, not to mislead anybody!)


I don't know a single farrier who would refuse to work with the mini. However I know farriers who would refuse to work with the bratty horse any size (and would be right IMHO). It's not about attitude or height, but about training (which is always the owner's responsibility). Attitude (aka lack of training) is not a good excuse to have no farrier care. BTW, you can learn to do trims (or at least touch-ups) youself - not very easy, but something good to know if there is too much time between farrier visits.


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## lovemarcy (Jun 5, 2011)

Tremor said:


> Well, lets put it this way.
> 
> My LOVES fluffy mini babies. he bought a mare...and a stud. Made some babies and sold the stud this past spring.


In my opinion, just because minis are fluffy and cute does NOT entitle anyone to breed them like hamsters. There is a huge problem with overbreeding horses and so many horses are ending up at sales because there just arent enough homes for them- and again, this is just my opinion- but I believe that keeping a mare pregnant for most of her life is not fair to her (like PMU mares). Breeding should be taken seriously, and not be treated as a hobby or a way to make a quick buck. (hopefully that's not necessarily what you are doing but I see no reason for that little mare to have had that many consecutive babies)


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## sillyfilly1987 (Jul 14, 2011)

Freda said:


> I'm sorry, but anyone and I do mean anyone that breeds any creature of Gods as often as you did, doesn't need any animals. No wonder she has a stretched or torn abd ligament. And for shame on those hooves. I'm a busy person too but my animals get taken care of !!!!!!!! And thats my only reply.


 
Have to agree. And my opiniono is that I wouldn't of bred her. There are much better quality minis in the world and I'd like to see more of them produced, not more of her.


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

Tremor has been told over and over (on other forums) what faults these horses have and to stop breeding. 

A miniature is either a dwarf or not. This mare exhibits enough traits to be considered a dwarf. 

It is way to easy to keep blaming your parents for the lack of care, breeding etc. Im not buying it anymore.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

My mare is also an ex broodmare, suspected to have had a foal a year from 2002-2010. :-( She has a bit of a saggy belly I doubt I will ever be able to tighten up, but it's nothing anywhere near to what is being seen on your mare. I am aware that due to the short barrel, broody bellies can be over-emphasized on minis, but that is still very extreme. I do hope you have the vet investigate it seriously when he comes out. If "he doesn't mention it", *then ask*. _*Directly*_.


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## weefoal (Apr 4, 2009)

I dont normally get involved in forum drama but saw some other posts that put me over the edge. I know better. ugh. 

And I am just generally not in a good mood today so shouldnt post

I was going to delete my posts but I guess you cannot edit or delete here. Just not worth it.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

weefoal said:


> I was going to delete my posts but I guess you cannot edit or delete here. Just not worth it.


 You actually can edit your post if it's within 10 minutes of writing it.


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## morabhobbyhorse (Apr 17, 2011)

I don't know anything about Minis so I'll say that right up front. My question is how could you have had this mare so long and all those foals WITHOUT a farrier. You mentioned I think 5-6 foals in the beginning which means you've had her at least 5-6 years. My horses feet have gotten 'away' from me a couple times, well the first I bought her that way, and I used a rasp on them until I could get a farrier out. And I agree with the OP that a bad farrier is better than her hooves right now. You're not making a life long decision you can't back out of, mine's had three in three years. And unless the next trim is better, it will be 4. Or I'll start doing them myself. 
Owning an animal is a big responsibility. And countless times I've had to forget something I needed to get something my dog or horse needed. I can't honestly offer anything more as a critique because that little mare just looks freakish kinda compared to the minis I've seen. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean but please ask your vet when he/she comes what you can do to more effectively provide your horses with general comfort.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

You asked for a critique...she looks like a dwarf. The risks of breeding her and ending up with another dwarf would worry me beyond belief. I'm glad you are no longer breeding her but she looks bagged up in the one picture. Is she still nursing?


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Sorry for not replying. Had show not too long ago. 

Weefoal and I discussed this on another forum, and I think we've come to an agreement on things. If not, I hope she'll talk with me some more. On my end the issue came off as resolved. If it wasn't, then please do talk to me about it. 

Indyhorse, that's one of the things I'll be talking to my vet about when she's out soon for floating. I saw her this past week and she made the comment that she still looks pregnant even though she isn't. I'm sure we'll both have an interesting conversation about Bow. 

ShutUpJoe, she is bagged up. She is nursing a three month old filly. (3 months tomorrow!)


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

I just thought I would update you guys/gals on this topic. If I remember this thread correctly I used some rather bad pictures of Bow post foaling (3 months) while she had her rather heavy belly still and poor hooves. 

My mistake indeed. I should have waited a couple months later. I've spent the past two years working with her extensively on her handling, her weight, and her hooves. I jumped her quite a bit back in 2011 and her belly did shrink actually with the extra work. In 2012 I spent much of my summer trimming her hooves and correctly the damage done. (Tall heels, flares, overgrown bars, etc) I've worked with her quite a bit and have learned a lot. 

Once we put our round pen back up I am planning on starting up work with her again on lunging, jumping, and ground driving. (I'm hoping that using a belly sweat will help some but it doesnt have to.) She's a heck of a mare; just not much to look at. ****

I will recap on our herd since when this thread was made there was a lot of drama with breeding. We sold our stallion April 2011 before our last foal was born. Our two younger males were gelded October 2010 and spring 2011. We only own two grown mares (ages 11 and 13), two geldings (ages 6 and 3), and two young fillies (ages 2 and 3). No breeding animals. I have no intention to breed my mares or younger fillies. 

I do think that Bow has some dreadful conformation and should not be bred. That is why she will not be sold. I know what scares her (trailers, dogs, etc), her foaling past (one dwarf foal), and her conformational faults. If I were to sell her she would be bred for her color and produce colorful dwarves or conformational disasters. The foals she produced with us are not horrible, but not breeding quality. 

An update on me, I am a senior in high school (graduating May 19th) and turn 18 in July. I am planning on attending college for Equine Management and then heading onto farrier school in either Kentucky, Missouri, or Oklahoma. Hooves fascinate me. 

I will try to edit this with attachments of her foals and her.


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Her 2011 filly:


















Her 2010 gelding son:









Bow June 2012 while ground tieing:


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Sorry that this is in the riding critique section. The forum must have made a horse conformation section since July 2011. ****. 

I just wanted to add that I updated this thread because I felt that it painted both my mare and I in a bad light, which my my fault. In the past couple years I've changed the way things are done for the better of my herd, in my opinion. My equine vet is my mentor and I am always asking her questions about things to do with training, health, hooves, etc. I have asked for hood critiques on other forums and seem to be doing something right. (It was on my 3 year old geldings hooves from last summer). 

Things are going for the better. 2011 was just the beginning when we gelded our last colt and sold our stallion. Quitting breeding was just the start. 

I do hope that this thread update makes your view of me better than it was back in 2011. I've tried really hard and a lot has paid off. 

Thanks again.


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Ive re-read this thread multiple times now. Thanks to all who posted. I know exactly what pictures were used and they were...poopy. 

You were all well meaning and not at all harsh. Thanks again.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Tremor I feel you have grown up in the last couple of years, well done for all the changes you have made, and good luck with the things to come.


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## Tremor (Jun 28, 2011)

Golden Horse said:


> Tremor I feel you have grown up in the last couple of years, well done for all the changes you have made, and good luck with the things to come.


Thanks, I appreciate it. 

I will admit that my head was so far up my behind back I'm 2010-2011. It still is somewhat.....just not as bad. ****


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