# equine photography as a side job?



## Lonannuniel (Jun 13, 2008)

Hey guys! I am thinking about doing equine photography to earn a bit of money on the side ( the same idea as tack cleaning at shows, a mini-business sort of). I was just trying to figure out what to charge, which is where you guys come in!

Do people generally pay for photographers at shows? Would this general idea be reasonable for an extra source of income?
Assuming that I take nice photos, and all other variables aside, what would you be most willing to purchase / pay for? 

*idea 1* - pay per picture ( ex. take 20 photos, the person pays for the photos they like)
*idea 2 *- Pay per session (ex. person pays for the # of photos per session )
*idea 3* - Pay per time (ex. person pays for a set time, and gets all the photos take during that time frame)
*Idea 4* - Pay per class (ex. person pays for pictures to be take during a set class at a show, and gets the photos taken in that class)


Thanks!


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Show photographers generally take photos of as many riders/rings as they can, post a site, and have people pay per photo, and vary their prices depending on what kind of print or image they would like.
It's a hard area to get into, and you sacrifice weekends for these shows. You need to have the right equipment (body, lenses, stabilization, flashes if needed.... etc), cards, and a business set up - if you're accepting money, you have to track it and pay taxes on it. Can it be profitable? If you're good and have a good client base.


----------



## RedTree (Jan 20, 2010)

One of my friends borthers does photography and what he does is he goes to shows (not to sure if he asks permission or not) and takes a whole bunch of photos, he then uploads them to FB and if anyone wants the photos they can order them, he lets you do what ever you want with the digitals as long as you don't remove the brand.
He doesn't cost to much $5 per photo or does combo deals 5 for $22 which is a lot cheaper then the bigger companys.

This only works because his sister is out competting so most of her friends (like me) are told about his site and so we add him see photos and buy.

There is also a more local forum I am a member of where everyone can talk whos going where and will know what photographer will be there.

If that made any sense at all


----------



## Lonannuniel (Jun 13, 2008)

I've heard of people doing this, I remember a friend of mine bought photos after the large shows. Although I always thought it would be rude to take photos & post online without permission. Do you think, if I was to take photos that way, it would be better to contact the show organizers & get the website posted somewhere? or something of that nature?


----------



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You would most definitely have to get permission in order to photograph on the grounds for profit.


----------



## BeauReba (Jul 2, 2008)

Charging $5 a photo isn't much profit when you calculate how much time you spend there (and uploading, and printing...) and the amount of equipment you need. Very few jobs would you do for such little money! If you aren't doing a session and are just freelancing there is a chance you might not make any money!

There are many, many equine photographers and you have to be pretty darn good to be competitive with them.


----------



## vephotography (Mar 28, 2012)

Ok, I know this is about a year old but I am going to put in my 2 cents.....

I am a photographer and it's a difficult business to break into, especially on your own. I have been doing it professionally for almost 6 years and I cant tell you that show photography has changed rapidly. You used to be able to make really good money, but the advent of digital photography has changed that. EVERYONE has a camera. In fact, MANY people have DSLR's. And many of the consumer DSLR's are capable of capturing nice images at outdoor shows (indoors is trickier, even for the seasoned photographer). When people have their own camera, or have someone from their barn taking pictures and giving to the pictures to the riders free or cheaply- like one girl posted that her friend's brother does, more on that in a moment- people are less likely to buy a photo from the photographer. If they are taking photos themselves, and can fire off a ton of shots, and get one or two nice ones, again, they are NOT going to buy from a photographer...Those have been 2 of the major reasons in the decline of quality show photographers...

Another reason, is that you having poaching... Poaching is when, a photographer (usually an amatuer) goes to a show, when there is a photographer there. The poacher goes around shooting people and selling their photos for dirt cheap. This hurts all photographers. Why, because then people are used to getting photos for dirt cheap. They see no value in photography, since the photographer is pricing so low and obviously sees no value in their photography themselves. Again why would someone want to pay $30 for an 8x10 when they can get an ok shot from another (amatuer) photographer for $5 and do whatever the hell they want with it? $30 is NOT a lot of money for a photo (I will break it down shortly).

Also, this generation is used to the digital age. Another reason, why show photography is not as lucrative as it used to be, is that people steal proofs online...Every computer comes with a print screen button....it's really not hard to figure out how to steal photos. And most people don't care if there is a huge watermark on the photo or not. I have people from shows that are my facebook friends, and they thing nothing of stealing work from my proofing site and plastering it all over facebook...Again, I see this because they are "friends" with me on facebook. And this generation has no qualms with stuff like that. It's mostly teens and midtwenty something year olds that steal proofs, but those are a large portion of the people that show. Legally, I could go after them, but morally how will it look if I go after a teen for stealing proofs online?

Now back to the subject of poaching and the girl's, friend's brother. I would likely count him as a poacher is he is selling his stuff for $5 per print. Why, because NO show photographer would price themselves that low! Why? Because, to be at a show, it actually COSTS the photographer money to be there, and it's VERY hard to recoup your costs as a photographer if you are only making $5 per print.


----------



## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

At the show my cousin went to (a fairly large one) there was a guy set up in a trailer. The announcer said every now and then that anyone who wanted pictures could go there. It was about $30 for one photo and he allowed you to tell him what "edits" you wanted (like if you wanted to crop it or something). They were really good quality photos and in my opinion they were worth the price.


----------



## vephotography (Mar 28, 2012)

Most exhibitors don't think about this, but yes, it actually COSTS money to be a show photographer. Show photography is a business, just like anything else. 

My equipment is not free, the schooling I took to learn how to be a photographer was not free either. I don't get compensated for driving hours to a show, nor am I paid by the show comittee to be there. I get no guarrenteed minimum amount of money for going to a show. In fact, what I am guarrenteed is that I will be on my feet for 8-12+ hours per day, with barely a bathroom break, in the hot sun (and inclement weather...yep I have photographed in the rain...it's not fun, but if I say I am going to be there, then I have to be at the show, prepared to shoot in whatever weather is going on. A rule of thumb is, if it's safe enough for riders to continue riding in the show, then I will be shooting). 

Sometimes, if I am lucky, the show will comp my lunch, but many won't even do that. Sometimes, shows want the option of being able to view photos onsite during the show, that means I have to have the equipment to be able to offer that AND I have to PAY someone to mann it for me... Everything stated above costs time and money. That isn't including the 20+ hours it will take me to upload, store, organize, cull, edit and post the 2500+ proofs I will have from the show. It also costs me money to host my website and proofing site. many proofing sites will charge a monthly fee + commission on YOUR photo sales. Many hosting sites for websites will charge a monthly fee for their services. For quite a few of those sites, the monthly fee is based on the amount of photos that you have on the site....so no, posting proofs online is NOT free either.

So lets break this down into a cost analysis (with just the basic gear, not including extra gear for inclement weather, equipment for viewing stations or backup harddrives for photos-god forbid something happen to your computer- ths is just for the initial day of shooting). I'm going to average my equipment. I have a main pro camera body that cost about $2500 and a back up body that was about $1300. Neither of these cameras came with lenses. My main lens was $1200 Sigma 70-200 f2.8 (which is THE lens used by most equine photographers well a 70-200 f2.8 in general- obviously brand name ones like Nikon or Canon are better, they are usually sharper and faster, but they are also 2-3 times the price!). I have a 70-300 on my back up which was about $750. The I have about 6+ memory 4-8 gb memory cards per camera, so we will say about another $240 in memory cards. I have spare batteries for my cameras. My main body the extra battery cost $169. My backup camera the battery was about $70. We'll also through in the cost of gas to get to and from this show. For me, it's about $100 per tank. Also, something I am SURE you have not thought about, but most shows want YOU (the photographer) to sponsor them! That can be anywhere from $50-$300+! Yep, there are many shows want you to pay to be there, bet most riders don't realize that. We'll also include the $20 for lunch and drinks throughout the day. So right now for the show you are looking at a cost of over $6000 for you to shoot at a show! Thats not even including YOUR time for shooting! Include another approximately $100 for your time in shooting at that show! I don't know too many people who like to work their butts off for free...

If you take off equipment costs (but really if you want to make money, your equipment should be paying for itself), you are still looking at about $300-$600 per day to shoot at a show (including your time, gas, food and sponsorship fees...). Just to break even at $5 per print, you are going to have to sell 60 prints, which is very hard to do with all the above reasons (poachers, other parents and riders giving away photos, people stealing photos from your site instead of buying them, etc.)


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

vephotography said:


> Ok, I know this is about a year old but I am going to put in my 2 cents.....
> 
> I am a photographer and it's a difficult business to break into, especially on your own. I have been doing it professionally for almost 6 years and I cant tell you that show photography has changed rapidly. You used to be able to make really good money, but the advent of digital photography has changed that. EVERYONE has a camera. In fact, MANY people have DSLR's. And many of the consumer DSLR's are capable of capturing nice images at outdoor shows (indoors is trickier, even for the seasoned photographer). When people have their own camera, or have someone from their barn taking pictures and giving to the pictures to the riders free or cheaply- like one girl posted that her friend's brother does, more on that in a moment- people are less likely to buy a photo from the photographer. If they are taking photos themselves, and can fire off a ton of shots, and get one or two nice ones, again, they are NOT going to buy from a photographer...Those have been 2 of the major reasons in the decline of quality show photographers...
> 
> ...


 Here is what I see, the world is changing and photographers is not. Simple. If your business is also a very popular recreational hobby and you are doing it in a public place of course there is going to be competition! I love photography and yes some times I do go to local shows just to shoot. Not to make money but I have given people photos or let them pay me for them. I don't think there is any law against it. What you should be doing if finding other creative ways to sell your art. Photoshop, sequence photos, etc. I've seen VERY successful photographers make lots of money NOT from there photography skills (I could shoot just as well) but from their editing skills!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

To the OP I would say forget the show idea and do private shoots. I put up a few flyers around a few local barns and a tack store. I wish I would have pursued it more, I didn't advertise well. Lol. Then I would say pay by the hour, I advertised for $50, then make prints at an additional cost.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vephotography (Mar 28, 2012)

Sorry not trying to discourage you, but this is how it is. Also, if you want to shoot at a show, I would suggest you contact show management first and don't just show up and start shooting. I get very angry when I have put in a ton of time and money and I go to a show and see others poaching at the shows that I have booked with. It's not a good way to make friends with other photographers who could potential help you or teach you in the future. The horse world is small, the equine photographer world is smaller... If the show currently has a photographer, I would suggest you not try to sell your photos, because ultimately, you will be stealing sales from the photographer that is already there.

If there is no photographer and you feel up to it (is your work good enough yet to sell yourself as a photographer or are you just learning and aren't totally sure of yourself yet?). If it's the later, don't offer your services to the show just yet. If there is no photographer, go and practice for the day. If you happen to get some nice shots, perhaps go around and let some of the riders know that you go a nice shot. If there is NO official photographer at the show, it is usually ok to hand out business cards. 

If there happens to be a photographer at the show, contact the show photographer and ask if you could shadow them. The answer will depend on the photographer. I know a lot of photographer who feel they ahve gotten burned doing this and will say no, but it still doesn't hurt to ask. If the photographer does say yes, whether they say it or not- but most will and may even require you to a contract, DO NOT post proofs online for sale. Instead, use the images for your portfolio and for the learning experience of it. Your portfolio is going to be what will help gain you more shows in the future. If your portfolio displays nicely composed and exposed photos, with the proper timing for strides and movement, you are more likely to recieve a yes from shows as far as you being the official photographer. If your portfolio is full of improperly exposed, poorly timed image, poorly composed images, you aren't going to get many shows that are willing to book you.

As far as the other questions. Typically riders and exhibitors will buy prints and it's on a per print basis. $30-$50 for an 8x10 is average depending on your area. Look up other equine photogs in your area and check out their pricing to get an idea of where your pricing should be. Be honest, if your photography isn't as good as some of the other photographers, it's ok to price yourself a little lower, but not too low. Likewise if your work is truly outstanding and different don't be afraid to price a little higher. Another popular thing right now are digital files and CD's. Many photogs are offering a price per file. If someone wants bulk files, sometimes they offer a bulk discount. Other photographers will offer a CD with all the images from the show (for the particular rider) for a set price (anywhere from $100-$350). I think it's becoming more popular, cause many people want to post things on facebook, myspace, etc.

Shows will not pay you to be there. There are many photographers that offer $5 prints, so why would they want to pay you, if they can get that for free? It used to be customary for shows to sign a contract with the offical photographer stating exactly what the photographer was offering to the show (free images for the shows website or marketing materials in exchange for exculsivity to photograph the particular show and links to the photographers website, as well as advertising that the photographer was on the grounds, etc. Also the contract states what is to happen if other photogs are there poaching- usually if caught, the show comittee will through the poaching photographer off the show grounds.) Now it very rare that you will get a show to sign a contract. In fact, many larger shows now will have multiple photographers. Some shows like (Dressage at Devon), actually will make photographers buy a photo pass. If you are seen photographing with out a photo pass, you will be asked to leave the show.

I have seen photographers try to do a prepaid thing for riders. Like if the rider wants to be photographed at the show, the rider will sign up, list their classes/ride times and prepay like $10-$20. That money that is prepaid, turns into a print credit which will be deducted from the order total, when they go to order their prints. If they don't order anything, it gets refunded or put towards a future show. I have tried that, and really didn't have much interest. Most people figured I was there, so i would photograph them anyways so there was no need to prepay. I do try to photograph everyone, but sometimes it is not possible. Still with parents and friends that have cameras, I really did not have a lot of interest in people prepaying. In fact many riders complain about it (check out message boards).

I'm not trying to discourage you, but show photography is not a get rich quick thing. I have had shows where I grossed $5k-$6k (not all at once, but over the course of a year). And I have had shows where I had to travel, stay in a hotel and figured I would make a decent amount and really didn't get much in the way of orders. Right now, it's hit or miss, and my order totals get lower every year (because of reasons previously discussed). And because of that, I have dropped shows that just werent worth my time. It's not fun, and I enjoyed when my schedule was booked, but when you are losing money it's not worth it. 

So no, the short answer is you most likely are not going to make much money at this. My suggestion to you would be, if you have an in with a barn (that shows), offer to shoot exclusively for their barn (meaning don't shoot or sell to anyone at the show but members of that barn). Offer them a print or a CD for a set price, something that will work for you (again make sure the price is in line with the quality of your work- don't charge $200 for poor quality images). That way, you are making some money for your time, and still shooting, without the headache and responsibility of being the Official Show photographer. Also, in that case, I STILL would contact the show photographer-if there is one- and let them know that you will be shooting for that specific barn, but are NOT going to offer your services to other exhibitors at the show. In other words, make nice with the show photographer, and show that you respect them and are not out to steal sales. The day of the show, go introduce yourself to them, so that when you are shooting mistake you for a poacher and potential have you thrown out of the show. Plus, like I said, it's good to make friends with them. 

I know personally, if other photographers give me the respect at a show, I will give it back. I don't having photographers come to where I am and shooting the same exact things I am. It really makes me angry. Make sure you give them their space and stuff. I am always happy to offer advice, to people that appraoch me and introduce themselves. There have been occassions where I have been contacted by shows and asked if I knew another shooter because the photographer for another ring couldn't make it. On those occasions who do you think I am going to ask? The photographer that was being sneaky and trying to steal sales from me, or the photographer that was polite and came up and introduced themselves to me and we created a repoire with each other outside of the show after? Just saying.


----------



## vephotography (Mar 28, 2012)

Slidestop, competition is not a bad thing. I didn't say that. What I did say, is that if I am the OP for a show, and I PAY to be there, and some random joe-schmoe comes with a camera that he doesn't even know how to use properly and starts pawning his photos off on people for $5 each and I catch him, you better believe I am going to get show management to kick him out. If however there are other OP's and THE show has contacted them to be there, that is a different story (and many of the shows I shoot are like that). 

Amatuers should not expect to just show up at a show and start selling their work to people. That would be like a nursing assitant going into a hospital and trying to pass themselves off as a doctor, diagnosing patients and whatnot. Photography is not necessarily JUST a hobby (for some it is), but for me and many others it my career. I'm not stupid, photography is just not a get rich quick. It's about 20% shooting and 80% business and marketing. 

But the market is saturated with hobbyists passing themselves off as really photographers, when they don't know how to shoot or how to actually use their camera. Why? Because digital allows you to see what you take right away. You can delete the bad images. You don't have to waste money with developing film, and as for the most part, if you shoot 100 images, at least 1-2 will be good. Look at the wedding industry (I worked in pro commercial lab for years and sold photo equipment). Since consumer level DSLRs have become fairly user friendly, quality has gone way up and the price for a low level DSLR is comparable to a high quality point & shoot, obviously photography has been opened up to more people. I see more people pawn themselves off as wedding photographers cause they got a few nice shots at their friend's or daughters wedding. That when they actually book someone (that isn't family member or friend), they have a rude awakening at just how much goes into being a wedding photographer. And if their prints come out badly, there is no amount of photoshop that can correct it. 

People seem to have this idea, that just because it's digital means you can't take a bad/wrong pic...guess what? You can. I don't care about competition (it's what makes me strive to be better at my skill/craft), but the competition better not be standing right next to me, or asking me how to run their camera....and YES...THAT does happen more often then not...


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm not saying they should just show up either. Clearly it is wrong to just walk up and pop your photography tent next to the resident photographer's. All I'm saying is photographer is not a protected title/licensure where nurse and doctor. Any Joe Shmoe can pick up and call himself a photographer and not go to jail. Or put on a pair of boots and call himself a horse trainer. That's why I'm trying to tell you ADAPTATION is the name of the game. Making things beyond better in the average market.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vephotography (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes as far as licenses go. In some states, however, you DO need a license to teach riding or operate a stable (Massachusetts is one of those states). If the show, specifically offers a photographer, a show (and they call the photographer "the official photographer" whether this is a written contract or verbal agreement- it is still a binding agreement). That means, if a photographer is contacted by a show and is going to be at the show in the capacity of the show's photographer (verbal or otherwise, as long as the show is recognizing the photographer as "its" photographer), the photographer can go to the show committee and have the show committee deal with other photographers. Can you stop someone from taking pictures of their own horse, no- and there is no reason to...But if someone is going around offering their pics for sale (like passing out their business cards to people), they can be told to leave and not come back for the remainder of the show. Most show/fair grounds are considered private property, so at that point there is really nothing that photographer can do, but leave. So yes, other photographers CAN be stopped. But it will also depend on the show management. 

I have had this happen once. I don't really even care if people shoot from the rail. My feeling is, if there is a another photographer with a barn, and that barn can get the images cheap or free, they will most likely go with that photographer. It's those times that I just try to make my work stand out, so they WANT to buy images from me. 

The only time I had a photographer thrown out (and yes he was told to leave and under no uncertain circumstances was he allowed back for the season), was when he was blatantly trying to steal sales. At first he tried to come in the ring with me. I told him politely I was the only photographer allowed to shoot in the ring. Then I was in the ring shooting classes &doing win shots, the guy was standing at the gate, as riders left, passing out business cards and also trying to get win shots. He even told some people, including management (he didn't realize who the show comittee members were) that I worked for him. It was my 3rd year doing that show series-with 6 shows per year, so most of the exhibitors knew better. When he blatantly lied to management, he was escorted off the property and told not to come back.

So yes there is recourse. If you are the official photographer for the show, the show management should back you up and take care of it, if it becomes an issue. Would I most likely take legal action against the photographer, no but I could if I could prove that he stole cases and the show was willing to back me up saying they contacted me to be their SOLE photographer. In the real would is this likely to happen? No. But I am seeing strange legal cases pop up more and more that have to do with photographers, so you never know.


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I guess my point is over your head. I agree it is wrong and I even offered advice to the OP to skip the horse show scene! PM me if you want to debate further. 

My apologies to the OP for semi hijacking the thread! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vephotography (Mar 28, 2012)

Sorry Slidestop, it's not over my head. I was simply pointing out where there is something that can be done. It happens. She wanted to know about horse show photography. And guess what, I answered her questions and gave her ideas and things to think about as well. 

You are right, portraiture is a good alternative if she can get the clients. Still you will have equipment costs and similar things to think about. If you don't like my responses, then please don't read them. Are you or have you been a show photographer? I doubt, at least not at any major shows.... There is no need to insult me. You made your points, I made mine. Grow up and act like an adult or don't post. Simple, huh?


----------



## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't want to get into a ****ing match here, but I agree with SlidingStop.
I'm a little tired of the complaints. Yes, there are many more amateur photographers out there than there used to be that produce pictures good enough for the general public. So that shouldn't make you complain, but think about what YOU can offer that others don't, and that will be worth $30 a shot.
Music industry is complaining about the exact same thing, but the truth is it is also getting much easier for very talented people to get exposure than it used to be.
So yes, the landscape is changing, but for the better if you ask me. It's time for the professionals to put something unique behind their work to make it worth the $$.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

