# Old owner wants her horse back, my heart is breaking!



## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

If you have a contract that says you own the horse, her old owner is out of luck and can't so anything. It's your horse now.
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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I agree. If you have a contract that says you are the owner, the lady really has no say in how the horse is taken care of.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

I hope you got a bill of sale for the Horse, but a contract might suffice if you are over 18...depends on your states laws

If not, I would check with a local lawyer, since you have vet bills and possibly a boarding bill and then you have possession, you may have a case to prove the original owner gave up the Horse.

The original owner must not know a lot about Horses, it takes a while for new Horse to become a part of the existing herd and fit in, so she thinks being a lonely pasture ornament is a better life for this Horse? :-(

.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

A few things from me, TruGing: 1) You said you signed a contract that she's yours - that should in essence be a bill of sale and should have been signed by the former owner - agreed? 2) Did the contract make any stipulations over and above transferring ownership? 3) It's not uncommon for horses to take time to become part of the herd so Sophie is probably OK for the time being. I used to have a gelding who never used the shelter when the rest of the herd was in - just to ensure that he was not being bullied, we put an annex on the shelter separated by a wall so he could have it all to himself and he still stayed out of the shelter; after a period of probably close to a year he finally decided he would start using it. 4) Finally, is inadequate shelter a legitimate concern? I don't know where you are from so I don't know how harsh your winters are. It won't hurt to do some pondering here and if you are certain all is well, then that's an end to it. If you wanted to post some pictures of Sophie's quarters, I'm sure we could offer educated opinions - that way you'll know for sure and you can, in turn, alleviate the former owner's concerns.


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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

All I have is the contract and vet bills to back up my case, and I am under eighteen. I doubt I would have much of a case, even if I did want to bring it to court. Especially since I got to horse for free, so she did not technically sell her to me. Besides that, she is a family friend and has been very good to me so far so filing a case against her would just be a very extreme measure. I just don't know how I can make her happy with the situation without shoveling out a heap of cash I don't have to stall board her. I'm already working everyday after school and weekends to pay off field board. She has given me a couple of weeks to figure it out and all my parents have said is, "Sometimes things seem like they are for the best, and then it just doesn't work out" I don't even know what they mean by that, but I do get that I'm alone in this.


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## AyaSora (Sep 29, 2013)

You do have the contract. Just calmly(as calmly as possible the calmer the better) explain to her that horses take some time to readjust to a herd. My current foster mare still will not go into the barn with the others and she's been here for over a month now. 
Also explain to the old owner that if she takes the horse back without sufficient time to readjust you expect to be reimbursed for all the medical you have done to the horse.


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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

Chevaux said:


> A few things from me, TruGing: 1) You said you signed a contract that she's yours - that should in essence be a bill of sale and should have been signed by the former owner - agreed? 2) Did the contract make any stipulations over and above transferring ownership? 3) It's not uncommon for horses to take time to become part of the herd so Sophie is probably OK for the time being. I used to have a gelding who never used the shelter when the rest of the herd was in - just to ensure that he was not being bullied, we put an annex on the shelter separated by a wall so he could have it all to himself and he still stayed out of the shelter; after a period of probably close to a year he finally decided he would start using it. 4) Finally, is inadequate shelter a legitimate concern? I don't know where you are from so I don't know how harsh your winters are. It won't hurt to do some pondering here and if you are certain all is well, then that's an end to it. If you wanted to post some pictures of Sophie's quarters, I'm sure we could offer educated opinions - that way you'll know for sure and you can, in turn, alleviate the former owner's concerns.


The contract was not signed by the owner, I never even thought about it. It is completely useless now, how could I have been so stupid! And part of the contract includes proper care including adequate shelter and so if she really sees the shelter as inadequate then I am breaking the already useless contract. The winters here are fairly harsh, well below freezing with some pretty heavy snow some years, and I would never keep her somewhere where I don't think she'd have enough protection, but I really do believe she will be okay. The other three mares live out 24/7 and hardly use the run in except for shade in the summer!


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Keep that contract and refer back to it. Try and be civil as long as you can and get your parents or maybe even the BO to help. 

If you want to get nasty with her over this, write up a bill with all your vet, farrier, board, and feed expenses for the time you have owned her and tell the previous owner to pay up. Personally, I think that's a fair thing to expect since there was no free/full care lease agreement was there? Is it possible to see the contract and what you agreed to?


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## rideverystride (Jul 19, 2013)

I think you are out of luck with the contract... There are plenty of other horses out there, don't set your heart on one . Don't take this to court and tear apart your family. I know you love this horse but maybe there will be an option for you to ride Sophie without having to own her. Does that sound like an option? I know I sound cruel but please take me into consideration.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

TruGing said:


> The contract was not signed by the owner, I never even thought about it. It is completely useless now, how could I have been so stupid! And part of the contract includes proper care including adequate shelter and so if she really sees the shelter as inadequate then I am breaking the already useless contract. The winters here are fairly harsh, well below freezing with some pretty heavy snow some years, and I would never keep her somewhere where I don't think she'd have enough protection, but I really do believe she will be okay. The other three mares live out 24/7 and hardly use the run in except for shade in the summer!


 I would ask her to wait it out and see how she adjusts. Assure her that if she isn't comfortable and healthy come winter you will make other arrangements if needed. If they have a wind break and lots of hay they are ok outside. Access would be nice in the extreme weather and maybe during those days of the year you could mover her to a stall.


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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

rideverystride said:


> I think you are out of luck with the contract... There are plenty of other horses out there, don't set your heart on one . Don't take this to court and tear apart your family. I know you love this horse but maybe there will be an option for you to ride Sophie without having to own her. Does that sound like an option? I know I sound cruel but please take me into consideration.


I know you're right, but I just can't let her go that easily. Especially since I know that know matter what her owner thinks the care at her new barn is much much better. And as for riding her, she will let me but I would almost always be riding alone which besides being dangerous just seems sad because with my trainers help we've already made so much progress and I know we will lose it if she leaves and has to sit in the field for weeks between rides. I've just had so many horses I loved taken from me, lesson horses and training projects who were sold or died and I just can't believe I may lose Sophie. I love her more than I've loved any horse and I've learned so much from her. She's my best friend and has been for a year now.


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## rideverystride (Jul 19, 2013)

If you love her so much, then I suggest fighting for her . I suggest you follow everyone else's advice. I'm sure with time she'll come around. As long as you explain it to her clearly what is happening, and give her proof. With time she should come around. Good luck .


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

TruGing said:


> I know you're right, but I just can't let her go that easily. Especially since I know that know matter what her owner thinks the care at her new barn is much much better. And as for riding her, she will let me but I would almost always be riding alone which besides being dangerous just seems sad because with my trainers help we've already made so much progress and I know we will lose it if she leaves and has to sit in the field for weeks between rides. I've just had so many horses I loved taken from me, lesson horses and training projects who were sold or died and I just can't believe I may lose Sophie. I love her more than I've loved any horse and I've learned so much from her. She's my best friend and has been for a year now.


 Why don't you purchase a horse so you don't have these heartaches?
A pasture pet like Sophie are fairly easy to come by and inexpensive. You might even consider a rescue and get a nice horse for very little money. If you take your time a rescue sometimes gets some nice purebred(may not have papers) broke horses that have been abused and when brought back to their glory are nice.


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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> I would ask her to wait it out and see how she adjusts. Assure her that if she isn't comfortable and healthy come winter you will make other arrangements if needed. If they have a wind break and lots of hay they are ok outside. Access would be nice in the extreme weather and maybe during those days of the year you could mover her to a stall.


That was my first response, but it didn't make her any happier. I'll just have to talk to her again when she's had time to think and see if we can work something out. I doubt I'll even sleep until this is resolved


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## Reckyroo (Feb 5, 2013)

Maybe ask your BO to speak to Sophies (previous) owner.

My mare is bottom of the pecking order in a herd situation but has never been hurt or injured because of it - it's just normal animal behaviour - if Sophie was a dominant mare, she'd probably have a few injuries by now fighting with the other mares in the herd.

I'd maybe see if you could offer her money for Sophie and have a proper bill of sale drawn up (do you have her passport or do you not need them where you're from) - she's probably worried for her horse and although she had offered her to you, just wants what she feels is best - hopefully the visits will start to lessen and you'll be left in peace. 

Could your parents speak to her - it's all new at the moment, and probably when things settle down, hopefully she'll see that you're the best thing for Sophie.

Good luck - i hope it all works out for you xx


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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> Why don't you purchase a horse so you don't have these heartaches?
> A pasture pet like Sophie are fairly easy to come by and inexpensive.


I could never afford to buy a horse of Sophie's quality, she is not the type of horse that is meant to be a pet. the owner was very lucky and got her cheap as a greenie from a friend, but a horse like her could easily sell for 20k. Another reason why I don't want to let her go sit around in the owners field until she dies. she loves her job and gets bored doing nothing.


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## cebee (Apr 4, 2010)

It sounds like the previous owner is just having a hard time giving her up. While my barn has lots of shelter.. even in the worst of weather the horses just turn their butts to the wind and stand there. I suspect the previous owner is not used to herd dynamics- someone has to be at the bottom ( in my case it is my boy!) Horses know how it goes. They are not standing there saying " nobody likes me! " like a person would. Assure the previous owner that she observed a small moment in time- which is true. Probably 90% of the time your horse is happy and content and getting along great with the herd. 
If she insists on taking her back, absolultely get your money back from the vet. How can she worry about shelter, but never cared about shots and teeth and the horses mental health ( they are herd animals after all ) And it would be a shame for her to ruin the relationship she has with you over this... good luck!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

How was the previous owner's pasture set up? Did Sophie have a shelter? Did she use it? 

I agree with having your BO talk to the previous owner (if she won't listen to you) and see if she'll agree to letting her settle in and seeing if things change.
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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

I would allow her to come pick up Sophie once you have been reimbursed for the board and vet care you have given her. Make up an invoice for the old owner and tell her you expect payment before she can pick up the horse. It sucks that your parents didn't help you with this before it got to this point. Minors can't sign contracts and your parents would have the experience to know you need a bill of sale, etc. It's a crappy situation and they should have been there to help you.

If I were in this situation I would pay for stall board for two or three months until the old owner is satisfied and quits checking up on her. Then she can return to her previous arrangements.


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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

@draftyairesmom she had this metal sided run in facing the wrong way. The metal sheets were always blowing up and flapping around too. She used it only on really hot days. In the winter she spends all day at the round bale.

@Tinaev Stall board is $800. I just can't do that, but i wish I could. I can find a stall for her when the weather is really bad, which is what the previous owner did but its become a more personal issue than a care issue.

Thanks everyone who replied. It's nice to know I have people on my side, even if it doesn't change anything.
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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

$800 holy crap where do you live?! I've never needed to board a horse before but my best friend does she pays $300 for stall board. They feed twice/day and basically she only shows up when she wants to. Crazy. :|


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## Chickenoverlord (Apr 30, 2013)

Sounds like a horrible family friend, and your parents should be ashamed. If trying to convince the obviously moronic previous owner that her horse is safe using logic fails to work, then add up all the money you have spent on the horse (board, feed, tack, farrier, vet, etc.) and inform her that she can retrieve her animal and return it to its previous miserable lifestyle after she coughs up the hard earned cash you have spent on an animal that she obviously does not truly care about. You may then thank her for crushing a girls dream and wasting a horse. I am sorry if this post is taken as rude, I am a girl who has been in the same position (or as close as can get) and has a had a bad day. I hope it works out for you.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

TruGing said:


> I could never afford to buy a horse of Sophie's quality, she is not the type of horse that is meant to be a pet. the owner was very lucky and got her cheap as a greenie from a friend, but a horse like her could easily sell for 20k. Another reason why I don't want to let her go sit around in the owners field until she dies. she loves her job and gets bored doing nothing.


You've gotten some fantastic advice here, so I'm just going to pipe up about this. I visited your virtual barn. Sophie is super adorable and very cute, but is not as expensive as you think, IMO. She's almost 16, QH/TB that's been sitting for ages till you came along. Unless she has a million dollar pedigree or did some amazing things in her youth, I don't think she's worth $20k plus. 
I'm not bringing this up to be mean or condescending, simply to give another point of view. If the previous owner says she's worth $20k, you may want to take that with a large dose of salt unless she has some pretty major things to back up that claim.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

thats a 1000 horse . Possession being 9/10ths of the law tell so called family friend to pack sand. She makes a fuss hand her the bill for board feed and care.


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## MaximasMommy (Sep 21, 2013)

Why is board so much where you are? Mine is $450 a month and they do everything, my horse lives in a five star hotel basically. Maybe you should expand your driving distance to a nearby rural area?


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Our region ranges from $250-800/mo, for the same kind of facility, depending on how close you get to the city.

I gotta say, I'm really disappointed in your patents for not getting involved. No kid of mine will have an adult take advantage of them - all the worse it is that it's a family friend. That would put a peer in a horrible position, never mind a 'child' of a peer. 

I strongly second tallying up your money spent and showing to her, while you ask her to consider giving the herd more time. At the very least, she reimburses you and the horse goes. At the very best, she reconsiders, for her own reasons. 

Incidentally, your parents should be prepared to back you on getting your $$ back, too. 

This entire situation is just bogus.
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## cebee (Apr 4, 2010)

If your parents are so 'oh well' about it- did they not really want you to take on the horse in the first place? Are they helping you at all with the cost of board, vets etc? Or were they, and the previous owner, somehow hoping you would realize how much a horse costs, and decide to skip the whole thing? ( clearly did not happen) If this is a 'friend' do they somehow think having the previous owner take her back, and still let you ride, etc they are somehow 'helping? How good of 'friends' are they? Is there more to the story?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I'd also like to toss this out there. Do not allow the ex-owner to visit when you and the BO are not on the property.
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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

^^ I agree! ^^
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## AztecBaby (Mar 19, 2009)

The horse is yours now, too bad for the old owner. 
Also horses are hardy creatures, it is natural for a horse to be outside in a paddock not locked in a stall. I can guarantee she will be happier out there regardless ofthe weather.
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## Fourteen (Jan 8, 2013)

I've seen this happen lots of times before...

A horse owner "gives" a horse to someone that they think will love their horse as much as they do. But they don't really "give" the horse away in their heart...the horse is still the original owner's horse, both in their mind and sometimes on paper.

Good horsemanship/husbandry is defined in many different ways. Just look at all the different opinions on this board! It's much like having children...everyone has their own ways of doing things, and if you see someone doing something to your "child", you react!

I do not predict this situation will have a good outcome for you, unless you get the previous owner to sign a bill of sale/transfer of ownership, AND you have to stop offering for the previous owner to come visit Sophie whenever she wants. It's too hard for her to realize this is not her horse anymore, and she will be a constant PITA and stress to you. It's not worth it. She has to let go, and she won't be able to until she gets it through her head this is not her horse anymore. And even then, she cannot help caring about how Sophie is being taken care of. If she thinks she has a say, she will say it, and won't be shy about it.

Unfortunately, it's a hard lesson, but I'd agree with the others about being reimbursed for the $ you've put out in the last month, and cut your emotional losses. Friendship and horse-ownership seldom mix very well.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I've been in a similar situation with my old gelding. I was under the impression that he was given to me by my friend that I worked for, who in turn received him from his owners for free because they couldn't afford to have as many horses as they did. Dakota had been with us for over a year and a half when he was given to me. In that time, as far as I know, his owners had not paid one dime for his care, including the corrective shoeing he needed after their farrier screwed up his feet. I did the majority of Dakota's retraining from the ground up, taking him from an ill-mannered, pushy, "spooky" monster who his owners rode him direct-reining in a twisted wire snaffle with his head tied down to his chest, to a well-mannered gentleman who was used as a bareback lesson horse in an eggbutt French link snaffle for a little girl who was terrified of horses. His owners visited him exactly one time in the entire two years we had him, and it was quite by "accident" that they came to see him, as they were dropping off another "wild and crazy" horse of theirs to be retrained by my friend because they couldn't handle him (4yo OTTB with zero manners and no clue about working under saddle properly...but they were still riding him). They saw Dakota for two minutes, complained that he was skinny (he was in perfect weight...he came to us from them very overweight) and they didn't like where he was at (they wanted him in a 12' X 12' box stall with no run instead of the 12' X 20' outdoor mare motel stall with shade/protection...never mind that he went absolutely nuts in a box stall), then left. They came back once to visit their other horse and saw Dakota being used for lessons. Within a few weeks, they had come and taken him back with them, claiming that they had never given him to my friend in the first place (no paperwork was exchanged ever). I had paid for feed and farrier for Dakota for six months, and had cleaned 10-14 stalls per day, plus fed all the horses dinner and worked four of my friend's horses (in addition to Dakota) every day to pay for my stall fee. I had no job and taught piano lessons to pay for his feed and farrier and my gas to drive the 13 miles one way out to the barn. Dakota was worth maybe $500 (8yo Arab/NSH cross who was broke as a 2yo, started over 2' jumps as a 2.5yo, competed hard until he started refusing jumps as a 5yo due to arthritis in his hocks, then "retrained" supposedly as a western pleasure horse, but hated it, and had HORRIBLE ground manners) and I had definitely spent more than that on his care ($80 per month in feed, plus $40 every six weeks for farrier, and my working off $125 per month for his stall fee...in the six months he was "mine," I spent approximately $1350, give or take). Unfortunately, because I had no receipts and no contract, his owners came and picked him up right after Christmas without me knowing it. I found out when I went to house sit at my fruend's house and stopped to see Dakota...and he was gone. My friend off-handedly mentioned that his owners had taken him back and acted like it was no big deal. My heart was broken and my friend and I had a HUGE falling out over it. We didn't speak for over a year, until a mutual friend couldn't take it anymore and acted as a mediator between us. We're tentatively alright now (it'll be three years this Christmas since Dakota was ripped away from me), but it's taken me a long time for me to forgive her and we still don't talk as much as we did. 

I guess my point is, get your parents or your BO or someone involved who can speak on your behalf (since you're a minor) and get things in writing so that the same thing that happened to me doesn't happen to you. Save ALL your receipts (regardless of how trivial they seem) and start keeping a log of all money spent on the care of this horse and training time spent with her (you can then approximate your hourly "rate" for training her [I would go with about the same amount that trainers charge for lessons in your area] and add that to what you've spent on her). I agree with the others' assessment that she is worth maybe $1000 given her age and lack of training/handling.
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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

Somewhat happy update although I'm not out of the woods yet. I went to ride Sophie the other day and when I brought her in all the other horses followed her to the gate and the whole time she was in the barn they were whinnying for her. I rode her and fed her and when I put her back out all the other horses ran to her. She touched noses with one of them then pushed past the others and trotted over to her favorite spot to graze and they all crossed the creek single file behind her. I told her owner about how she was acting more dominant and mentioned a few other things about how happy Sophie seemed and she agreed to give it more time to see how she settled in. Then this morning my trainer texted me telling me that she had found all four of them in the run-in shed together. The run-in shed may be tight, but if they want to pile in on a warm day, then on a cold day they should by nice and toasty side by side in there. Her owner seems more relaxed now so I at least feel confident she won't do anything rash, I've got at least another month to enjoy my horse in peace and hopefully years after that.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

While I am happy to see things a little better I am also more worried. The situation has now gone back to more of a free lease than a change in ownership and with obvious heavy conditions even if the conditions aren't in writing. I would seriously consider making moves to have actual ownership transferred, in writing, rather than possibly going through the agony again in another month and your bond with Sophie is even tighter.


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## dlady (Apr 13, 2013)

You stated that the contract was not signed by the owner. Who wrote the contract? If the owner wrote it in her own handwriting, around here it's as good as a signed contract. 

I'm surprised your parents aren't backing you on this. This doesn't seem like a family friend. If she takes it back, it makes it seems like she used the love that you have for the horse to provide for it what she wasn't giving it. She would certainly have to reimburse you for your expenses and the time that you spent training Sophie. I don't consider anyone who tries to take advantage of my children a friend, so don't even try to play me that way.

Rescues sometimes makes excellent horses. This is Vegas when he was 1st rescued by my riding instructor in 2010.


This is what he looks like today.


He can sometimes be stubborn and pushy if we let him. He's usually met with an elbow when he's pushy. Oh I don't elbow him. I simply let him bump into it himself and he get's the message. He was a little pushy at feeding time, but thanks to the information I received here he knows he eats when I say he can eat. He's a very sweet horse and is a good ride. I love him dearly. The DH mostly ride him, but he respects both of us as his leader. 

I hope everything works out for you and Sophie. I wouldn't let my child give up without fighting for what I feel is right.


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## TruGing (Nov 2, 2012)

tlkng1 said:


> While I am happy to see things a little better I am also more worried. The situation has now gone back to more of a free lease than a change in ownership and with obvious heavy conditions even if the conditions aren't in writing. I would seriously consider making moves to have actual ownership transferred, in writing, rather than possibly going through the agony again in another month and your bond with Sophie is even tighter.


I'm rewriting the contract right now, it wasn't formal enough to even work with the board agreement so even without all the trouble it was worth rewriting. This time I will make sure it clearly states the transfer of ownership and that the owner signs it. My parents are trying to encourage me to write it as a free lease, they just don't get why it's an issue to me for the owner to be able to take her back whenever she wants. After watching me put almost a year of intensive training into this horse you'd think they'd get why I want to be able to keep her without legal issues hanging over my head.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Good news then, TruGing. If you can, perhaps take a few pictures of Sophie when she's hanging out with the herd and particularly in the shelter as the owner was concerned about that before, I think. Present these pictures as part of your talk with the former owner to secure a proper transfer document - it should further ease her mind that all will be well. Also (and I know there has been some discussion on this forum about its legitimacy) offer to write a first refusal clause into the transfer (in other words if for some reason you cannot keep Sophie, the former owner will be given the first opportunity to take her back if she still wants her).


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