# Critique these stallions?



## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

My friend is looking to breed his mare and asked me to look at some stallions. I found these two that seem to compliment her pretty well. She is a 15.2HH 8 yr old TB and I do not have any pics of her. She has a slightly long back and is a little weak in the hind end as well as having a more upright shoulder. 

1. All Eyez On Me- 17 yrs old, 16.2hh. Aspen is a lovely CB Sporthorse stallion who has been a proven producer of athletic, kind and easy going foals. Aspen is putting babies on the ground with nice bone, great brains and athleticism. Pictures and video available of Aspen and his foals. Babies can all be registered through CBHS regardless of dams breeding.










2. Rcs Painted Prince- 17 yrs old, 14.2hh. No other info given waiting to hear back from owners.


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## Red Gate Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

I like number one. Shorter back and really nice shoulder.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

If those were the only choices, it would be #1 no question. 

I don't like the looks of #2s back at all, esp if the mare is already long backed.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Number 1
Slightly odd choices as two very different stallions there
What are they wanting to breed?


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

They are the only two I have found so far to compliment her. He didn't really give me a reason he is wanting to breed other than he wants to cross her with something that has a sturdy build and would be a good english trail mount... I tried to tell him to buy but he is adamant on breeding. So I have tried to find stallions that compliment his TB mare that also seem like they could throw a decent trail/English mount


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

agre that #1 has better conformation in my book.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The paint I would reject because at 14.2 theres a good chance you'd get a light built horse that might not be tall enough from a TB mare
I have had 2 CB X TB mares - one was 15.2 and very fine and the other was CB build and 16.3 so the results aren't always predictable. Neither were what I would have called steady but both hunted and hacked out great with a decent rider
Have you maybe considered using a Percheron or a Gypsy Vanner?


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The paint.. should never be bred IMO. Poor conformation and I wonder if that horse is a Frame. The top horse is the better animal all the way round. Lovely shoulder and nicely conformed albeit a bit down hill. 

The first generation (Thoroughbred crossed to a Warmblood) are often VERY good. Second generation not so much. I would not breed a TB to either of these horses TBH.

If I had a TB mare worth breeding I would be looking for a Hanoverian or Trakhener. I would also consider a Holsteiner, but with reservations and a good look at the pedigree since the breed can have a lot of TB it in. Another cross that can be absolutely lovely IF you can even find a Stallion is TB crossed on Cleveland Bay. 

I would *not* cross to draft or Gypsy Vanner. The two types are too different and you often end up with the horse with parts that are TB and parts that are draft as opposed to the parts blending. The saddest result of this cross can be Thoroughbred legs under a draft body. 

When crossing horse breeds, it is important to stay close to type. This is why there are a lot of Warmblood Crosses on TB.


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## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Elana said:


> The paint.. should never be bred IMO. Poor conformation and I wonder if that horse is a Frame. The top horse is the better animal all the way round. Lovely shoulder and nicely conformed albeit a bit down hill.
> 
> The first generation (Thoroughbred crossed to a Warmblood) are often VERY good. Second generation not so much. I would not breed a TB to either of these horses TBH.
> 
> ...


The first horse is a Cleveland Bay, Elana


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

According to his info he's a CB x TB I think - he looks way too light in the leg to be purebred


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

danicelia24 said:


> The first horse is a Cleveland Bay, Elana


Registered as a CB Sporthorse means they are a Cleveland Bay cross. Found him in allbreedpedigree. His sire is listed as Cleavand Bay and his dam is Thoroughbred (her pedigree info is incomplete) 
All Eyez On Me Cleveland Bay


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## Raya (Mar 23, 2015)

I know a breeder whose whole breeding program consists of Percheron TB crosses. Lovely Lovely all round horses with really sweet dispositions. She raises anything from leisure trail horses to top dressage mounts. I personally am way more drawn to stalky horses rather then TB type horses so I love the cross because it combines the athleticism of a TB with the stockiness and reliability of a Percheron. Not a good choice if you like a small horse though.


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

I see two excellent geldings. Number One for the show ring (hunter division) and Number Two for the trail. :hide:


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Agree, if those are the only two choices, then number 1
Number two should be gelded!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Raya said:


> I know a breeder whose whole breeding program consists of Percheron TB crosses. Lovely Lovely all round horses with really sweet dispositions. She raises anything from leisure trail horses to top dressage mounts. I personally am way more drawn to stalky horses rather then TB type horses so I love the cross because it combines the athleticism of a TB with the stockiness and reliability of a Percheron. Not a good choice if you like a small horse though.


Not always, if you don't get the best from both!
I know someone that had aTB stallion , and bred to a Percheron mare. She got the best from both, the first time. Bone and calmness from the draft and the athletic movement for the TB
Next full sibling had the body of a short draft, the hyper mind of a TB and the heavy movement of a draft.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Raya said:


> I know a breeder whose whole breeding program consists of Percheron TB crosses. Lovely Lovely all round horses with really sweet dispositions. She raises anything from leisure trail horses to top dressage mounts. I personally am way more drawn to stalky horses rather then TB type horses so I love the cross because it combines the athleticism of a TB with the stockiness and reliability of a Percheron. Not a good choice if you like a small horse though.


That's a pet peeve - there are plenty of people around here that cross the two and call them Warmblood, when infact it has absolutely nothing to do with a Warmblood.
I'm not sure why you'd expect to get "top dressage mounts" from that cross...


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree, wouldn't even contemplate the second for anything let alone breeding! 

The young stock from the forst look to be of a nice type. So much depends on the mare.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Crossing the CB X TB with a TB is almost guaranteed to produce a horse that looks like a TB
My farriers wife has TB X Percheron - he's a wonderful horse, great on the trails, competes successfully in low level dressage, show jumps and does a good safe cross country round

If breeding to a heavier horse is a worry then the standard UK cross to get a middleweight horse with a good 'do what you ask' temperament is the TB x Irish Draft
If that's too tall then the Welsh D x TB is also still very popular but can be 'hotter'
The WB x TB can be a little too 'high geared' for some people who just want a steady relaxing trail ride


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## Jumping4Joy (Jan 29, 2014)

Regula said:


> That's a pet peeve - there are plenty of people around here that cross the two and call them Warmblood, when infact it has absolutely nothing to do with a Warmblood.
> I'm not sure why you'd expect to get "top dressage mounts" from that cross...


Did she call them warmbloods? I didn't read that anywhere in her post. 

Also, she didn't say that you should "expect" anything. She said that particular breeder has raised top dressage mounts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

CB thought it meant Cross Bred not Cleveland Bay. He does seem too light of bone for that breed.

Just looked at the Pedigree. 

He is a nice horse and if the guy with the TB mare (if the mare is GREAT) could get a nice horse like that from a pure Cleveland Bay Stallion. 

I like a few Draft X TB. Most I do not like for the reasons previously stated.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

How about this guy Magico VIII PRE Andalusian He's known to throw great shoulder angle and a round croup on his friendly brave babies.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

He looks quite a chunky horse - but he is a stallion. A lot of the Andalusians I've seen have been very narrow and lightweight


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## Cimarron (Oct 8, 2014)

There have been two Andalusians at my barn. 
One was nice and rather stocky like that gorgeous stallion above (he was a gelding) and one was a little mare who was quite narrow.
I think it just depends, but I would prefer the "chunky" ones.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

jaydee said:


> He looks quite a chunky horse - but he is a stallion. A lot of the Andalusians I've seen have been very narrow and lightweight


This guy has a pretty broad chest in my opinion. Yeah, I think he's a pretty cool horse. He's made quite a name for himself and so has his get.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

I'd take the top one over the second one, (who really needs to be gelded.)

I'd also suggest looking for Morgans, and ranch type stock horses ( quarters, Paints, and Appy.) to help with the mares long back and weak hind end.

Other than trail riding does he plan to show or does he just prefer the more 'English' look to a horse? (Taller, more narrow, like a hunter, or a bit more compact like a show jumper or dressage horse.)


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## blueriver (Oct 10, 2009)

Okay use this stallion ...


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm not seeing the "good bone" part. I don't really see the Cleveland Bay part so I do think he has a lot of outside blood (is that allowed?) I think the breed may be a nice cross but not that horse. I would've sworn he was a bay TB.

If I were looking for a trail/fun horse with a TB I would be looking more for small and stocky. NOT an opposite cross (draft/cob) as Elana said, I completely agree, but the right stocky horse (Morgan, maybe mustang maybe a lighter Canadian) I think would be a nice cross for that. Just careful not to go too opposite.

If looking for a more English type show horse I agree the right Warmblood would be very nice.

I think your friend needs to decide what he actually wants, the whole thing seems hypothetical to me.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The stallion is a straight cross - CB X TB - and he is pretty typical of what you get when you use a CB or and ID on a TB mare
Using a Morgan would totally depend on how tall and heavy the mare's owner is - they aren't a very big breed and quite fine legged
If the owner was just looking for a like for like result then probably using a TB with a good conformation would work
If he wants something bigger then the Canadian Cheval would be a good cross to get a sturdier horse
Soci?t? des ?leveurs de Chevaux Canadiens ? Canadian Horse Breeders Association


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

jaydee- regarding Morgan I meant the old style type not the "smorgans" (sorry couldn't help it- Saddlebred "Morgans") you often see in the show ring these days.

A GOOD Morgan is an excellent sturdy breed. Not tall but plenty able to carry weight! In fact that is one of their selling points is as a sturdy weight carrier.










Not a horse I would hesitate to put an average man or above average man (within reason) on regardless of height. I would consider the average Morgan (old style) a better weight carrier then the average TB as many TBs (not all) are very spindly and the height is mostly in the withers. Morgans are bred to be using horses.

Canadians are a very similar style and I know I referenced them in my previous post so happy to see someone else say the same. However, while they can be taller than Morgans if this man is looking for height many are not so you would need to find the right one.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Unless the man is tall and doesn't want his legs hanging down below the girth then height comes second to bone/sturdiness
I'm afraid the stockier types of Morgans are few and far between these days and I'm not sure what the result would be if crossed with a lightweight TB - but I imagine it would be no better than using that CB x TB the OP posted which could have any offspring registered with the CB sport horse registry


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I'm not that far from you and most of the Morgans around here are old style/Lippitt. Maybe as I am further north? If it is that specific the OP may also have trouble.

Just an idea anyways.

I definitely know TBs where it would be a bad cross as well as some where it would be an excellent cross. Depends on the mare and we can only speculate on that


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