# ? Regarding buckskin/ Appy genes



## GracielaGata

Okay, so I wasn't sure how to phrase the title.. but my mare has always made me wonder... 
Why are there not really any 'pale' (i.e. buckskin, especially the lighter buttermilks, or palomino, cremello, perlino) horses that have the appaloosa patterning? Or am I just missing something in my random searches of boredom and knowledge gaining?
My buttermilk buckskin mare is half appy (sire was loud bay leopard), half QH (dam was cremello). I suppose it is because I don't know enough on the appy genetics, but was always surprised she didn't have a pattern to her coat. 

Am I just not finding the pics, does the pattern disguise the color? Is it not as possible due to the genes?

Thanks for putting up with my possibly stupid question! I am trying to learn about appy genetics!


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## verona1016

There are plenty of dilute appaloosa patterned horses out there if you know where to look:


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## Chiilaa

Bear in mind that the most common appaloosa pattern is the varnish roan. Varnish can be difficult to see on palomino, and really hard to see on double dilutes. In fact, on double dilutes, pretty much any white is difficult to see lol.


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## Yogiwick

As far as the genes think of Appaloosas (or pintos, or even grey for that matter) as a blanket on the base color. The spots are extra on top of the color.

In addition to what the previous posters said I wanted to add that since you are breeding for color you want to actually get color. Having a gorgeous white pattern on a basically white horse is sort of against the point, so I would strongly believe it is something that breeders (in general) try to stay away from, which is why it is more uncommon.


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## GracielaGata

verona1016 said:


> There are plenty of dilute appaloosa patterned horses out there if you know where to look:
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> So is this above one a palomino, right?
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> This one is a buckskin? Why are the points so paled out? And what makes the spots a pally or almost sorrel color, if this is a buckskin horse?
> And does a pattern like leopard override the points on a pointed color such as a buckskin?





Chiilaa said:


> Bear in mind that the most common appaloosa pattern is the varnish roan. Varnish can be difficult to see on palomino, and really hard to see on double dilutes. In fact, on double dilutes, pretty much any white is difficult to see lol.
> 
> This is about what I expected for double dilutes, lol.


Another thought for Appys... is there anything that dictates how the color/pattern is inherited and described? I think it is called reverse? Such as a bay leopard vs. a reverse bay leopard- one would appear to be bay with white spots, the other white with bay spots, correct? 

Thanks for your guys' furthering of my edumacation!


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## DanisMom

Many years ago a friend of mine was training a horse that was palomino with a white blanket, and spots in the blanket that ranged from pale cream to dark gold. The mane had been roached and it was growing out. It was white on the outside and black on the inside so as it was growing out it had a black stripe down the center. So it was essentially a palomino blanket appaloosa. I wish I had a picture but I don't. I always loved the color and markings of that horse.


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## GracielaGata

Yogiwick said:


> As far as the genes think of Appaloosas (or pintos, or even grey for that matter) as a blanket on the base color. The spots are extra on top of the color.
> 
> In addition to what the previous posters said I wanted to add that since you are breeding for color you want to actually get color. Having a gorgeous white pattern on a basically white horse is sort of against the point, so I would strongly believe it is something that breeders (in general) try to stay away from, which is why it is more uncommon.


This is sorta of what I was thinking too, if it wasn't some gene exclusion concept. the patterns just aren't nearly so grand on a pale horse!
You mention greys- I am correct in assuming you would stay away from that as well, since it would negate the patterns once the horse went grey, right? 



DanisMom said:


> Many years ago a friend of mine was training a horse that was palomino with a white blanket, and spots in the blanket that ranged from pale cream to dark gold. The mane had been roached and it was growing out. It was white on the outside and black on the inside so as it was growing out it had a black stripe down the center. So it was essentially a palomino blanket appaloosa. I wish I had a picture but I don't. I always loved the color and markings of that horse.


A friend of mine where we used to live had a palomino Appy. I guess I sort of forgot until after I posted this. i didn't think too much of her pally in there, because she was one that was whitish with the pally-dark gold spots, like you mention. So it was obvious she was appy, and obvious she was pally, since she kept her solid pally color on her legs and head to some degree. She didn't varnish out heavily. Really neat on your friend's horse's mane though!

Thanks again!


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## Yogiwick

> This is sorta of what I was thinking too, if it wasn't some gene exclusion concept. The patterns just aren't nearly so grand on a pale horse!
> You mention greys- I am correct in assuming you would stay away from that as well, since it would negate the patterns once the horse went grey, right?


 I understood you meant that the genes would not work that way by the term "gene exclusion" which is not at all accurate. However, I think you would be right (in general) saying there IS an intentional "exclusion" (though I'd be more inclined to say it's more of something to avoid than something as concrete as being excluded) BY THE BREEDERS (not the genes!!). Yes, same with grey. If you are breeding for color you want to get rid of anything that will hide/diminish that color, it's all about how the horse looks (though on a larger scale as we are talking about here obviously conformation and suitability are important, no good breeder breeds _solely_ for color.)

I agree with you on palomino and buckskin, keep in mind though that the genes that give the Appaloosa's their pattern tend to do weird things to the base color (for example, a lot of black turns into a dark red so you can have a horse you'd swear was a chestnut and is actually bay.)

I don't think the buckskin's points are paled out (though see the above comment) are you seeing the "frosting"/white on the mane and tail? Normal for buckskins, spots or no, (google buckskin frosting) but if the horse has white where the hair is growing out of the hair will be white. I don't think the spots are "pally" and as far as them being darker I don't know the exact nuances of the color patterns but some horses, no matter what the base color, have darker as well as white spots. (maybe one of the experts can help us on this!)

Of course there are things that dictate the color/the name! Not sure on the reverse thing, but my understanding is-
To have Appaloosa colors a horse has to have the leopard gene.
With this gene the horse will have Appaloosa traits, including varnish roan (some varnish more than others).

See how the color stays on the bony parts?

This gene will ALLOW the horse to have color- one copy with a pattern the horse has spots


Two copies with a pattern the horse does not have spots.


Then there are other genes that control where the pattern is (blanket or leopard? snowcap or fewspot?) some of which have been pinpointed, and a million more that control the exact spots, size, pattern, etc. So you can even have a horse with the genes for the pattern that doesn't have a leopard gene that allows them to express! When bred to say that varnish roan up above you could suddenly have a baby covered in spots!

Appaloosas tend to roan out as they age too (see the varnish roan above, it's part of the color!) so the same horse may look entirely different in a couple years.

Check this out Drafts with Dots: The LP gene
Does anyone know where that cool little graphic is? A rearing horse and you plug in the genes and see the colors change? I need to find that!

Hope that made sense.


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## GracielaGata

Yogiwick said:


> I understood you meant that the genes would not work that way by the term "gene exclusion" which is not at all accurate. However, I think you would be right (in general) saying there IS an intentional "exclusion" (though I'd be more inclined to say it's more of something to avoid than something as concrete as being excluded) BY THE BREEDERS (not the genes!!). Yes, same with grey. If you are breeding for color you want to get rid of anything that will hide/diminish that color, it's all about how the horse looks (though on a larger scale as we are talking about here obviously conformation and suitability are important, no good breeder breeds _solely_ for color.)


 I think I didn't word it clearly.  I wasn't sure if lighter spotted Appys didn't exist due to natural gene semi-incompatibility, or due to humans preventing it by breeding for the more contrasting colors. One thing that still makes me wonder though: my horse as I mentioned is out of a bay leopard Appy and a Cremello QH... what were they expecting to get? Since my mare ended up a buttermilk buckskin, it makes me wonder why there aren't more Appy patterned buttermilk buckskins out there. (Her sire is Kid Jasper, dam is Sunlight Rawhide, if you want to allbreed their lineage.) 



I agree with you on palomino and buckskin said:


> I don't have much buckskin to compare with, but my mare has super dark points, so I didn't know if that is the norm for buckskins, the way it is for most bays, unless they are wild bays (isn't that the term?). So that horse has nearly no point compared to my mare. So I wasn't sure if the Appy genes were acting on the points and lightening them. That specific horse in the pic has hardly any black on the ears or muzzle, for example. But now that I think about it, that is a summer coat, I wonder if it isn't just the grazing removing the black, so to speak. I notice that in my mare in the summertime. My mare is in my profile, if you want to see my reference.
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> Appaloosas tend to roan out as they age too (see the varnish roan above said:
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> So is there any chance of my mare roaning at all? She is just turning 5 right now.
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> Check this out [url=http://draftswithdots.blogspot.com/2010/09/lp-gene.html said:
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> Drafts with Dots: The LP gene[/url]
> Does anyone know where that cool little graphic is? A rearing horse and you plug in the genes and see the colors change? I need to find that!
> 
> Hope that made sense.
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> 
> That app type horse thing would be neat!
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> It did all make sense... Thank you for taking the time to answer.
> I tried to make the quote function work better, and color my replies blue, so we/I can tell them apart. hopefully it helped! Is HF sending you email notifications of replies? I am not getting them. Wonder why.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Zexious

Another fantastic, informative thread. 

Yogiwick--You're so smart. And always post such beautiful pictures <3


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## Yogiwick

YES! lol it is due to the second part, not the first. As far as I know there are no pattern genes (pinto-tobiano, frame, etc, or Appy or grey, roan) that will not work on all colors. There are some tendencies within those but I think it's apples and oranges when it comes to color/pattern. (Correct me if I'm wrong! I can't think of anything otherwise)

They definitely exist and are out there though they are not, in general, ideal for breeding stock. Buckskins are relatively dark (in general again) so while the pattern may not be as flashy it isn't as hidden as some of those horses up there. I think it's beautiful on a buckskin, but most people prefer dark obvious colors. It's just a matter of preference, while the pattern may not be as noticeable on a cremello you can still market "I have a cremello Appaloosa, no one else does, buy it!" though it maybe isn't as good a line, it really just comes down to personal preference, aside from marketability.

You mare had a 50% chance of getting the Appy gene and didn't, she could possibly still carry spots though as I said, but she won't ever show it.

Wild bays are basically the same as bays but the black is more restricted-


I see the confusion. Yes, all buckskins have black points, some (a good amount but not all) also have frosting (along the mane and tail), buckskins in particular are known for this, it's also more obvious on them than other colors I think (dark mane pale basecoat). 

I think this is a good example, some have a little some have a lot.

From the Buckskin Horse Association (  )-

A true coloured Buckskin should be the colour of golden, tanned deer hide with black points. Shades of Buckskin may vary from pale cream to light gold to dark gold to chocolate. Points (mane ,tail, legs) can be dark brown or black. Guard hairs grow off the body coat up over the base of the main and tail. The hairs are Buckskin coloured with frosting which is a collection of lighter hairs streaked through the mane and/or tail. A dorsal stripe may be present in the Buckskin but is not very wide or prominent.

(I will make note that the dorsal stripe mentioned is countershading and not a true dorsal as seen in a dun) The points don't change, the mane and tail just have the "frosted" guard hairs.

As with anything I think what you are seeing is just variation in the individual horses. I would think if the coloring was lightening them anyways at that point the horse would no longer be recognizable as a buckskin.

Your mare is gorgeous!! Remember, the color is separate from the breed. Some purebred Appaloosa's don't show color. Just like "breeding stock" Paints. She does not appear to have the leopard gene (I am using leopard interchangeably with Appaloosa so as not to confuse you, the name is the leopard gene, but confusing since that is also the name of one of the colors so Appaloosa gene makes more sense) in which case she will not roan. She may of gotten it but I don't think so (look up what the traits are other than color). So she is to all effects a solid horse. She MAY carry the patterns for spots so if you bred her to a horse with that gene the foal may have spots, but she also may not. So your mare is a solid, and beautiful, buckskin.
The horse needs to have that gene to roan (unless they have the regular roan gene of course).

I'll try to find it!

Good I'm glad  Yes, it was clear. No, but I don't usually. I just check my CP.


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## Yogiwick

Zexious said:


> Another fantastic, informative thread.
> 
> Yogiwick--You're so smart. And always post such beautiful pictures <3


Aww thanks! I've got a lot to learn and am self taught, so definitely don't consider me one of the experts! I try not to post unless I feel I have a good idea of what I'm talking about though 

Thank google for the pics  Just search til I find what I'm looking for!


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## Yogiwick

Found it!! Appaloosa stuff at the bottom.

Horse Color Genetics: An Introduction

(I love this thing)


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## GracielaGata

Yogiwick said:


> YES! lol it is due to the second part, not the first. As far as I know there are no pattern genes (pinto-tobiano, frame, etc, or Appy or grey, roan) that will not work on all colors. There are some tendencies within those but I think it's apples and oranges when it comes to color/pattern. (Correct me if I'm wrong! I can't think of anything otherwise)
> 
> They definitely exist and are out there though they are not, in general, ideal for breeding stock. Buckskins are relatively dark (in general again) so while the pattern may not be as flashy it isn't as hidden as some of those horses up there. I think it's beautiful on a buckskin, but most people prefer dark obvious colors. It's just a matter of preference, while the pattern may not be as noticeable on a cremello you can still market "I have a cremello Appaloosa, no one else does, buy it!" though it maybe isn't as good a line, it really just comes down to personal preference, aside from marketability.
> 
> You mare had a 50% chance of getting the Appy gene and didn't, she could possibly still carry spots though as I said, but she won't ever show it.
> 
> Wild bays are basically the same as bays but the black is more restricted-
> 
> 
> I see the confusion. Yes, all buckskins have black points, some (a good amount but not all) also have frosting (along the mane and tail), buckskins in particular are known for this, it's also more obvious on them than other colors I think (dark mane pale basecoat).
> 
> I think this is a good example, some have a little some have a lot.
> 
> From the Buckskin Horse Association (  )-
> 
> A true coloured Buckskin should be the colour of golden, tanned deer hide with black points. Shades of Buckskin may vary from pale cream to light gold to dark gold to chocolate. Points (mane ,tail, legs) can be dark brown or black. Guard hairs grow off the body coat up over the base of the main and tail. The hairs are Buckskin coloured with frosting which is a collection of lighter hairs streaked through the mane and/or tail. A dorsal stripe may be present in the Buckskin but is not very wide or prominent.
> 
> (I will make note that the dorsal stripe mentioned is countershading and not a true dorsal as seen in a dun) The points don't change, the mane and tail just have the "frosted" guard hairs.
> 
> As with anything I think what you are seeing is just variation in the individual horses. I would think if the coloring was lightening them anyways at that point the horse would no longer be recognizable as a buckskin.
> 
> Your mare is gorgeous!! Remember, the color is separate from the breed. Some purebred Appaloosa's don't show color. Just like "breeding stock" Paints. She does not appear to have the leopard gene (I am using leopard interchangeably with Appaloosa so as not to confuse you, the name is the leopard gene, but confusing since that is also the name of one of the colors so Appaloosa gene makes more sense) in which case she will not roan. She may of gotten it but I don't think so (look up what the traits are other than color). So she is to all effects a solid horse. She MAY carry the patterns for spots so if you bred her to a horse with that gene the foal may have spots, but she also may not. So your mare is a solid, and beautiful, buckskin.
> The horse needs to have that gene to roan (unless they have the regular roan gene of course).
> 
> I'll try to find it!
> 
> Good I'm glad  Yes, it was clear. No, but I don't usually. I just check my CP.


Now that we are discussing it, yeah I guess it is that I never thought about that light colored loud Appys make no sense from the color perspective! Just like breeding stocks... Sorta like how everyone playfully picks on my mare for being 'such a beautiful Appy- oh wait, she isn't patterned!' lol 
i do agree the leopard (no worries, by the way, I did know that the complex is called that, alsp 'Lp,' too right?  ) can be beautiful on buckskin- that one you or the other poster found with the spotted butt and pale head was a beaut!

So the wild bay- that doesn't exist as a 'wild buckskin'? lol I have had several people tell my my mare has super dark points, and that they were surprised, as they hadn't seen many so dark (I haven't a clue personally, lol).
I also knew about the fake dorsal. They also get fake leg barring, as my mare does when she is between coats. Again, had people all excited for her possible dun-ness... she doesn't have it, I am 99% sure. She is my seasonal dunskin, then, lol. 
And thank you on the compliments. She is my baby. Not that I made her that color or anything... but she has a great mind and personality to boot. 
So the roaning- a total assumed lack of the gene in my mare means no roaning. That is definitely something I didn't know/understand before. So essentially one can assume appaloosa showing pattern= will roan at some point to some degree, and the reverse and lack of pattern means no roaning ever. And on non-Appys, it is specifically a roan gene that causes it. Got it. 
The traits to go with the roaning you mention: things like striped feet? She has that. But then our BLM caught paintish-drafty mustang has them too! Along with the eye white as well... the mustang has that too (but not my mare as much). my horses are backwards! lol 
Thanks again!


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## quinn

Sub..
I love love love that tool. Now if we could combine that with the "what color will the foal be?" tool... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick

GracielaGata said:


> Now that we are discussing it, yeah I guess it is that I never thought about that light colored loud Appys make no sense from the color perspective! Just like breeding stocks... Sorta like how everyone playfully picks on my mare for being 'such a beautiful Appy- oh wait, she isn't patterned!' lol
> *Well you can breed the pattern into the breeding stock and have a spotted bay, even if you have a spotted cremello it doesn't mean much though lol.*
> 
> i do agree the leopard (no worries, by the way, I did know that the complex is called that, alsp 'Lp,' too right?  ) can be beautiful on buckskin- that one you or the other poster found with the spotted butt and pale head was a beaut!
> *Yes, Lp. (I wasn't so worried about you it's just confusing overall haha) It's more subtle but I like that, obviously there is too subtle though.*
> 
> So the wild bay- that doesn't exist as a 'wild buckskin'?
> *Uh honestly I don't know, I don't see why not but I haven't heard of it. I assume there is.*
> 
> lol I have had several people tell my my mare has super dark points, and that they were surprised, as they hadn't seen many so dark (I haven't a clue personally, lol). *Shrug, hers look dark but it doesn't mean anything, it's just her color. Probably due to the color of her coat and her long mane and tail. Some are more washed out some aren't.*
> 
> I also knew about the fake dorsal. They also get fake leg barring, as my mare does when she is between coats. Again, had people all excited for her possible dun-ness... she doesn't have it, I am 99% sure. She is my seasonal dunskin, then, lol.
> *As any color can . When I was young I had a buckskin mare and wasn't sure myself if she was buckskin/dun (had a lot of people say dun) but looking back she was very much buckskin, very light dorsal and a more flat brown coat (as opposed to lighter gold, she was shiny and pretty but dark) were the only reasons to even think dun.*
> 
> And thank you on the compliments. She is my baby. Not that I made her that color or anything... but she has a great mind and personality to boot.
> *Good *
> 
> So the roaning- a total assumed lack of the gene in my mare means no roaning. That is definitely something I didn't know/understand before. So essentially one can assume appaloosa showing pattern= will roan at some point to some degree, and the reverse and lack of pattern means no roaning ever.
> *YES!! Appaloosa with the leopard gene is more accurate than Appaloosa showing pattern though.*
> 
> And on non-Appys, it is specifically a roan gene that causes it. Got it.
> *Yes, horses in general can have a roan gene; the leopard gene can cause (and will to some effect) a roaning called varnish roan. So Appy's have varnish roan, which is not the same as regular roan (though I assume they can possibly have that too, but again with not hiding the simple bold colors!). A horse that does not have the leopard gene cannot ever be a varnish roan, even if they have regular roan the two roans are two separate things and one if FROM the leopard gene.*
> 
> The traits to go with the roaning you mention: things like striped feet? She has that. But then our BLM caught paintish-drafty mustang has them too! Along with the eye white as well... the mustang has that too (but not my mare as much). my horses are backwards! lol
> Thanks again!
> *Some horses have striped feet, if that is her only trait then it's unlikely she has the gene, if she has several traits (feet, eyes, mottled skin for ex) it is more likely she does.*


Here is maybe a better example of a varnish roan- see how the color is retained in bony areas? (and of course the horse has Appaloosa characteristics and looks like an Appaloosa? Ignore the spots, they aren't relevant here)


Classic roan


See how the body is roaned relatively evenly? Even a horse that is solid except for a dusting of roan in a spot or two doesn't look the same as a varnish. The varnish roan will fade out in a very distinct pattern. It is almost (not to confuse you) like grey with roan since it will progressively get lighter all over and the non roaned areas more pronounced.

Regular roan will change seasonally and while the horse may be lighter as it gets older it won't be so dramatic as varnish. Even the classic roan, if the horses have an injury (which this pampered show pony obviously doesn't haha) it will grow back the color of the original coat, and may look like spots, but look at the head and legs.. the body is light, the head and legs are dark, now look at the varnish... that's the difference! (The chestnut's legs are pretty dark but they aren't all like that)


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## GracielaGata

You're right 'appy with leopard gene' is the more correct phrase. Not sure why I said it like I did. lol 
I do agree she probably doesn't have the gene, as she has no other traits that I know of.

I knew a varnish roan appy just like that one you posted! An excellent example of Appy roan. I do love how it stays dark on the bony spots. So neat.
And the other- I hadn't really thought about that being a difference. I have a friend with a QH roan, with the scars being the base non-roaned color. Makes for neat looks on the non pampered pasture kept horse, lol.
So then a varnish roan appy won't do that- the scars will come back the correct varnish color, though maybe after the initial regrowth grows out?
And good analogy on the 'grey roan.' I get exactly what you mean.


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## Yogiwick

That is just the regular roan, any non Appaloosa that has roan is that. It just works a little differently. It's very interesting as it can be "classic roan" like that picture or just a couple roan hairs over the rump type thing. The varnish roan is distinct and is an Appy thing.

Oh I love the mustangs!!




Soo cool  Though you have to imagine all the nasty fights they've had!!

A poster on here has a gorgeous varnish roan Appy, I actually think her horse is in the voting for the February contest!

As far as scarring on a varnish roan I really don't know, I would guess it would come back the original color (grey's do too to an extent) but don't know. I learned to ride on an Appy breeding farm but it was so long ago I don't remember the details lol.

Yay, I will have to use that 'grey roan' again since it makes sense haha. Some people take things too literally, I like that I explain stuff in my own weird way and you get it


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## GracielaGata

Yogiwick said:


> That is just the regular roan, any non Appaloosa that has roan is that. It just works a little differently. It's very interesting as it can be "classic roan" like that picture or just a couple roan hairs over the rump type thing. The varnish roan is distinct and is an Appy thing.
> 
> Oh I love the mustangs!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soo cool  Though you have to imagine all the nasty fights they've had!!
> 
> A poster on here has a gorgeous varnish roan Appy, I actually think her horse is in the voting for the February contest!
> 
> As far as scarring on a varnish roan I really don't know, I would guess it would come back the original color (grey's do too to an extent) but don't know. I learned to ride on an Appy breeding farm but it was so long ago I don't remember the details lol.
> 
> Yay, I will have to use that 'grey roan' again since it makes sense haha. Some people take things too literally, I like that I explain stuff in my own weird way and you get it


Yogi- I would venture to say that it must be because we are like minded. lol Frequently I get very odd looks for my versions of explanations... it makes complete and perfect sense in my head! Much easier to understand than 'their way.' lol
Those 2 pics are mustangs?! Wow they are beauties! Like you say, it is from fighting, but man those markings are awesome! 
And i agree on mustangs... ours is such an awesome horse... not nearly as pretty as those 2 though. But such an excellent heard and mind.


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## Chiilaa

I am not sure that varnish has "corn marks" where old scars are. ND could probably confirm this, she has a lovely varnish mare.


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## Tryst

Here are some fairly light Buckskins with Lp


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## Yogiwick

GracielaGata said:


> Yogi- I would venture to say that it must be because we are like minded. lol Frequently I get very odd looks for my versions of explanations... it makes complete and perfect sense in my head! Much easier to understand than 'their way.' lol
> Those 2 pics are mustangs?! Wow they are beauties! Like you say, it is from fighting, but man those markings are awesome!
> And i agree on mustangs... ours is such an awesome horse... not nearly as pretty as those 2 though. But such an excellent heard and mind.


Haha, must be!!

And yes those are mustangs (well I got them from google so no guarantee). I'd love either of them in my backyard!


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## Yogiwick

Chiilaa said:


> I am not sure that varnish has "corn marks" where old scars are. ND could probably confirm this, she has a lovely varnish mare.


Not sure either, just seems to make sense.

Even my grey, while they don't actually get "corn marks" where he has some slightly worse than the usual bumps and bruises areas they come back dark. Of course, he looks nothing like those roans I posted but the more serious injuries (he is rather accident prone) do not come back white, there is more color. Hence my logic, I think it's something similar to grey.

Interested to see what someone who actually has one thinks.

Also, I've known a few horses where the coat comes back slightly darker even if they aren't roaned/greyed out.


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## GracielaGata

Yogiwick said:


> Not sure either, just seems to make sense.
> 
> Even my grey, while they don't actually get "corn marks" where he has some slightly worse than the usual bumps and bruises areas they come back dark. Of course, he looks nothing like those roans I posted but the more serious injuries (he is rather accident prone) do not come back white, there is more color. Hence my logic, I think it's something similar to grey.
> 
> Interested to see what someone who actually has one thinks.
> 
> Also, I've known a few horses where the coat comes back slightly darker even if they aren't roaned/greyed out.


I thought it was standard for it to come back darker, then go the correct color by the next shed, for any horse that has a hair removing injury? My mare scraped off about 6x2inches on her chest... back in Nov/Dec.. it is still almost brown/black compared to her normal coat colors.. even seemingly darker than her summer coat! Let me amend that...I sorta assumed for lighter colored horses that was standard.. for a black or dark bay, you probably can't see it... our mustang is a fairly dark bay, and you can't really see a color difference, it is more so a ticking to the hair as it grows in, until the new shed.


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## GracielaGata

Tryst said:


> Here are some fairly light Buckskins with Lp


Holy cow Tryst, those are beautiful horses! I will take them all except the first one please. Never have been a fan of full body spots.


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## Tryst

First and last are minis, not Appies . But still Lp obviously.


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## Yogiwick

and then of course there are POAs, Knabstuppers and such as well.


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## Chiilaa

Yogiwick said:


> and then of course there are POAs, Knabstuppers and such as well.


And QHs *cough*. This guy is a DNA verified, registered AQHA.


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## GracielaGata

I was noticing they weren't full size! And I have seen the debates over the blanketed genetic tested QH! Definitely interesting!


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## NdAppy

Phoenix doesn't have corn marks. Varnish is similare to grey in hat it blankets the color. It's just a blanket with holes in it (the spots it reveals). Varnish does not affect spots already present. It just reveals spots on the previously solid areas.


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## NdAppy

Excuse the typos. On a tablet and it apparently doesnt like me. 

Phoenix has had her fair share of injuries and the hair doesn't seem to come back any darker mm


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## dreamcatcherranch

There are definitely many fans of the dilute Appaloosa. I have a dun snowcap, a buckskin fewspot (who had a buckskin leopard half-Arab filly, even more rare), a champagne/buckskin w/ blanket (3yr old colt for sale), a dunalino with lacy blanket half-arab and her dunalino with lacy blanket 3/4 arab filly. And I've sold a solid buckskin appy gelding, a buckskin blanketed stallion, a buckskin leopard half-arab gelding, a cremello blanketed mare, a perlino blanketed mare, a buckskin blanketed half-arab filly. They are definitely out there and have a following


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## JetdecksComet

Some horses that look dilute or "off color" and have Lp, may be color-shifed or bronzed. For some cool examples, like tested black horses who look chesnut! google "lets talk about appaloosa bronzing" and click on the link you find. I can't link it here because it's another forum and I'm pretty sure it's against the rules.


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## GracielaGata

dreamcatcherranch said:


> There are definitely many fans of the dilute Appaloosa. I have a dun snowcap, a buckskin fewspot (who had a buckskin leopard half-Arab filly, even more rare), a champagne/buckskin w/ blanket (3yr old colt for sale), a dunalino with lacy blanket half-arab and her dunalino with lacy blanket 3/4 arab filly. And I've sold a solid buckskin appy gelding, a buckskin blanketed stallion, a buckskin leopard half-arab gelding, a cremello blanketed mare, a perlino blanketed mare, a buckskin blanketed half-arab filly. They are definitely out there and have a following


Beautiful horses!



JetdecksComet said:


> Some horses that look dilute or "off color" and have Lp, may be color-shifed or bronzed. For some cool examples, like tested black horses who look chesnut! google "lets talk about appaloosa bronzing" and click on the link you find. I can't link it here because it's another forum and I'm pretty sure it's against the rules.


I just recently saw a horse that a member posted with the off color you mention. It was so neat.


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## BB Marie

This is Sunny.. Her sire is a buckskin QH & her mother is a dun appaloosa. I was hoping she would be dunskin but she is a buckskin. Her spots have started to show up over her withers & back now.


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## dreamcatcherranch

The perlino blanketed mare is one I sold - I think perlino's blankets show up better than cremello's do - she was a gorgeous mare through and through. 
The buckskin leopard mare (most beautiful appaloosa ever!) - the dam to mare fewspot buckskin mare and a pattern I'm hoping to replicate 
And the buckskin blanket was a stallion I sold. 

Buckskin Appaloosas rule!!!


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## GracielaGata

dreamcatcherranch said:


> The perlino blanketed mare is one I sold - I think perlino's blankets show up better than cremello's do - she was a gorgeous mare through and through.
> The buckskin leopard mare (most beautiful appaloosa ever!) - the dam to mare fewspot buckskin mare and a pattern I'm hoping to replicate
> And the buckskin blanket was a stallion I sold.
> 
> Buckskin Appaloosas rule!!!


LOVE the bottom 2 horses! Their patterns are perfect, just enough. 
I think I might have to agree, buckskin appys are quite beautiful!


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## GracielaGata

dreamcatcherranch said:


> The perlino blanketed mare is one I sold - I think perlino's blankets show up better than cremello's do - she was a gorgeous mare through and through.
> The buckskin leopard mare (most beautiful appaloosa ever!) - the dam to mare fewspot buckskin mare and a pattern I'm hoping to replicate
> And the buckskin blanket was a stallion I sold.
> 
> Buckskin Appaloosas rule!!!


And to add, your bottom one, the stallion, his face looks so much like my mare- he looks like he has a sweet personality. 
If he is missing, nope, not here!


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