# Yearling conformation critique



## hotreddun

My husband (dear lord save me) has fallen for this little yearling colt. I know nothing about judging baby conformation as the youngest I've ever owned was a 2 1/2 year old. It looks toed out to me...is that a baby thing? It's a yearling colt. TB dam X APHA sire. The TB is said to be 16.2hh and the sire is 15hh. The colt is very affordably priced...but I wanted to see what everybody here would offer the seller? Genetically...would it be more likely to have the height of the 16.2 dam or would I be stuck with a shorty? We are an English household...so he would need the aptitude for jumping/eventing. Tell me what you think?


----------



## Flyinghigh12

His front toes point out, I can't tell if the back ones do but here are some problems that might occur.

Creates excess strain on one side of the hoof, pastern and fetlock, predisposing the horse to DJD, ringbone, foot soreness or bruising. 
The horse will tend to wing, possibly causing an interference injury. May damage splint or cannon bone. 
This conformation diminishes the push from rear legs, as symmetry and timing of the striding is altered with the rotated foot placement, particularity at the trot. Thus, stride efficiency is affected to slow the horse’s gait. 
The horse is unable to sustain years of hard work.
An angular limb deformity causing a pigeon toed appearance from the fetlock down, with the toe pointing in toward the opposite limb. 
Horse is most suited for pleasure riding, non-impact, low-speed, and non-pivoting work. 
These horses tend to paddle, creating excess motion and twisting of the joints with the hoof in the air. This is unappealing in show horse, wasteful energy, which reduces the efficiency of the stride, so the horse fatigues more quickly. The hoof initially impacts ground on inside wall, causing excess stress on the inside structures of the limb, leading to ringbone (DJD) and sole or heel bruising in inside of hoof.

I would pass by this colt, it would be hard to fix this problem if it can be at this stage, and its alot of work. Since you're wanting to jump and stuff I wouldn't recomend getting this horse. Sorry, hope you find something nice for ur hubby! Good luck


----------



## Solon

You can't judge a horse that young because they are going to change so much until they are full grown.

However, having to judge something that horse is a definite pass for all the reasons flyinghigh mentioned. VERY unappealing horse even with the quirky yearling look.


----------



## reining girl

I agree, there could be alot of problems down the road. I think he is cute, pretty color, but ya i would pass


----------



## FGRanch

Hmm...maybe I'm weird, but I don't think it's all the bad. I think with regular trimming those feet would go straight in a real hurry.


----------



## FGRanch

Sorry for the double post but just had to say, look at his feet they obviously haven't been trimmed for a while, they are very long. 

Also, yes most babies do turn out in the front toes. Because of how they bend to eat grass...picture it in your head and you will know what I'm talking about.


----------



## MovingOn

I think he is nice. I agree with the above post, with trimming, those hooves will definitely look better.


----------



## hotreddun

FehrGroundRanch said:


> Sorry for the double post but just had to say, look at his feet they obviously haven't been trimmed for a while, they are very long.
> 
> Also, yes most babies do turn out in the front toes. Because of how they bend to eat grass...picture it in your head and you will know what I'm talking about.


Oh...is there anything cuter than the foal "giraffe" pose!

I think we are going to go look at him anyway next weekend. For his price range its not like Im expecting perfection or a Grand Prix or anything.


----------



## FGRanch

He is most cetianly worth taking a look at! If you look at the front view of him you can see that his bones are structurally sound, if you will. His bones don't have any bends, folds or any weird curves. His feet have not been kept up on and you can see that they outside of his feet are longer than the rest and the insides are curling under a touch, resulting in turned out toes, and as I did say before that is very common in young foals, especially ones that are not trimmed on a regular basis. 

However I would like to see another profile shot of his front legs. He does look a little over at the knees, but that could just be the way he was standing. He has a great head, nice topline and seems to have a nice hip and shoulder. 

My Opinion? Drive out there and have a look!  

Okay sorry for the excessive posting on this thread, but I was very tired this morning and didn't get fully into what I wanted to say!


----------



## hotreddun

FehrGroundRanch said:


> He is most cetianly worth taking a look at! If you look at the front view of him you can see that his bones are structurally sound, if you will. His bones don't have any bends, folds or any weird curves. His feet have not been kept up on and you can see that they outside of his feet are longer than the rest and the insides are curling under a touch, resulting in turned out toes, and as I did say before that is very common in young foals, especially ones that are not trimmed on a regular basis.
> 
> However I would like to see another profile shot of his front legs. He does look a little over at the knees, but that could just be the way he was standing. He has a great head, nice topline and seems to have a nice hip and shoulder.
> 
> My Opinion? Drive out there and have a look!
> 
> Okay sorry for the excessive posting on this thread, but I was very tired this morning and didn't get fully into what I wanted to say!


We're going to go look at him next Saturday morning. Its only a 20 minute drive so I think its worth a look. The seller just sent me another picture...and Im starting to convince myself he might be a diamond in the rough. His dams grandfather was Secretariat and has plenty of other good bloodlines. And I liked the new movement picture quite a bit.


----------



## close2prfct

My farrier told me that its not uncommon for a foal to toe out usually with regular trimming it will correct itself or if it doesn't after several trims try corrective shoes. 
Do you know if he has ever been trimmed? he does look like he really needs one


----------



## hotreddun

close2prfct said:


> My farrier told me that its not uncommon for a foal to toe out usually with regular trimming it will correct itself or if it doesn't after several trims try corrective shoes.
> Do you know if he has ever been trimmed? he does look like he really needs one


I don't know if he's been trimmed much less "regularly" trimmed. From the pictures he needs it badly as well as a deworming program from the looks of that pot belly.


----------



## Serendip45

*Yearling Conformation*

The problem that I see is that his cannon bones are not parallel. That is a separate issue from the toeing out. While you can probably fix the toeing out problem with regular hoof trimming, that will not straighten his legs in the vertical plane. That said, it is generally considered less of a problem if the lower legs are out from the upper legs than if the cannons are inside the upper leg; the difference is in where the stress is placed on the knee joints. I think it is still worth looking at the horse in person and observing his movement from the side, back and front. It's difficult to tell from a picture just how serious the problem is.


----------



## zanyoutthere

For such a little colt, he has a big stride which would be good for jumping.


----------



## girl_on_black_pony

I think it's worth a look. The toeing out you should be able to fix- my mini had to get trimming to fix his when he was 1 1/2 y/o. 

He may have those problems, but all horses have problems. The question is the severity of the problems and how much they'll affect him in the future.

Right now, he looks decent enough to look at. But please please please don't just buy him because you have the new horse bug. truly evaluate his legs and movement. 

Good luck 
Let us know


----------



## hotreddun

girl_on_black_pony said:


> I think it's worth a look. The toeing out you should be able to fix- my mini had to get trimming to fix his when he was 1 1/2 y/o.
> 
> He may have those problems, but all horses have problems. The question is the severity of the problems and how much they'll affect him in the future.
> 
> Right now, he looks decent enough to look at. But please please please don't just buy him because you have the new horse bug. truly evaluate his legs and movement.
> 
> Good luck
> Let us know


Oh...my personality doesn't allow me just to buy stuff. I tend to over think everything and talk my way out of it. :? Besides Im going out of town on Easter weekend so I won't be buying anything until at least after that. I don't want to pay overnight board for the vacation for more than the horse I already own.


----------



## girl_on_black_pony

It's smart to really think about it. You never know, you might find something better


----------



## Jessabel

It's almost impossible to accurately judge a yearling, since that's when they're in that fuzzy, awkward stage, but he is toed out. Other than that, you can't tell anything for sure yet. I would estimate that he would turn out mediocre at best, but you never know.


----------



## Pally

Ahg yearlings, hard to judge.....

And I'm really not willing to say one way or another about the legs. He needs a trim, he's a baby and may have stood up funny for the pictures, and he's a baby and might still change a bit. But unfortunately the legs are one of the most important things about his future, especially since he may be working hard and jumping. If you don't get a better feeling about the front legs in person, I think I would pass just on that alone...they take a lot of pounding on every landing.

Also, I don't really see the rest of him as being spectacular. Nice short back/long underline, good shoulder slope and wither. However, as lovely as that neck looks at this stage, as he grows up to mature, that neck is going to be short and thick, the throatlatch very thick. And while I think I like his hind leg angles fine right now, I'm not a fan of the hip...short and too steep for me.


But it's only 20 minutes, go and see for sure. Pictures can be deceiving.


----------



## FGRanch

Did you make it out to check out this munchkin yet?


----------



## barefoothooves

At his age, it's certainly a good time to set him up with a good trim regime and correct the toeing out. Could possibly be fixed with a single trim, as I agree, that I doubt he's had much if any attention yet. This is a good example why you should NEVER wait until they are a year old or more to trim them, if he'd been trimmed all along, he could have perfectly straight legs. That being said, his bones aren't done growing, so there's time to correct it. And, as was mentioned, he could also be standing funny for the picture, and the comment about youngsters toeing out with the funny grazing stance, points to keeping up regular trims when they are by momma's side, since ignoring them also can create a sort of club foot for some horses. Sorry to get on my soapbox and hyjack your thread! 

Cute little colt, but if you're doubting it in your gut, then pass. There are plenty of horses out there, it's a buyers market and you can take your time to find the perfect match, without hurrying. If you saw him and liked him, and he's gone before you return, then he wasn't the right horse.


----------



## hotreddun

i agree with everything posted. we're going to go take a look in the morning. I'm not hoping for much...but maybe we will be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## hotreddun

Well...I was pleasantly surprised. The legs do not look to be toed out to me. They looked straight. The hooves are in need of attention...but the owner admitted that she has had trouble keeping a regular farrier to come to her place. So atleast she was honest about it. The sire is short and stocky...but I wonder if that has to do with him being a stallion. I've heard not gelding can stunt height growth. The dam is a good solid 16 hh...maybe 16.2. She had a pretty face. The "uncle" of the sire is a jumping horse...you can search youtube for Duncan APHA. Attached are pics of his dam (bay: Shez Somesecretary), sire (paint: Body Talk), and him when he was a few weeks old. He was born in June so even though he is a 2008 colt he's not even a yearling yet...which is why he's so small.

What does everybody think of breeding lines? Seems like the TB lines on his dams side are pretty good.

Anyway...I'm looking at a few more horses over the next few weeks and may be making my decision after Easter.


----------



## FGRanch

I really like the look for his sire, he is a very good looking horse. I do NOT like paints but he is a looker. 

My vet has told me that yes, keeping them a stallion will cause them to be up to 4 inches shorter. If you geld before 10 months old they will be taller and finer.


----------



## MN Tigerstripes

Yup, testosterone causes the growth plates to "close" earlier so you usually get a shorter animal than you would have had if you gelded. Same thing with dogs & neutering. I like them both


----------



## hotreddun

The only thing that worries me is that short looking neck and thick throat latch. The sire definitely has it and it looks like the colt has it too.


----------

