# Badly Kept Trail Horses, what is your opinion?



## Clevelande (Apr 27, 2011)

This is absolutely awful! The first thing I would do, would be to go back a couple times to just look around, and make sure this wasn't an off day thing. If it's like that each take time, go back once more (or do this each visit) and take some pictures of the conditions there. If you can, some videos. Figure out who you could call that may regulate a place like that, and give it to them!!! The thing that would scare me more than the treatment of the horses there, is what may happen to them if the trail place got shut down. Where would the horses go?


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Good luck. Sounds like the boarding place I just came from within a provincial park - it's a dude ranch, that's how they run them. The animals are tacked up for 12 hours a day, and they spend all day carting around people who can't ride. Rain or shine, they will be there. And when they've come to the end of their lives, they will go to auction where they will likely be picked up for slaughter.

You can try to do something about it, but I highly doubt anyone is going to listen. As long as they have food and water, and none of the horses are keeling over dead from heat exhaustion, there's nothing anybody can do. It's within their right as a business to use their horses as they see fit within a few VERY loose general animal keeping guidelines.

It sucks, and power to you, but if they're not starving (you can't seem to prove they are) or beating them, I could think of worse lives a horse could have.


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## HorsesRForever (May 1, 2011)

I will try to get down there to take some videos. I'm not sure if I can get there soon because my mom doesn't want me going back, but I'll make that a main goal.

I don't think it was an off day because of what all these other people were saying in the reviews. Other experienced riders reviewed it with the same thoughts as me. You never know though. 

We have rescues around here that do take horses if it were to be shut down. I know that I would probably tie myself to a horse if they tried to put it down or something. The stable has been under, I believe, at least two different managements. I do not think that the animal control can do anything to try to regulate it because the laws are crazy where I am located. We had a lady win back over 200 animals that were severely abused. It was insane!

Can't wait to here from everyone


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## HorsesRForever (May 1, 2011)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Good luck. Sounds like the boarding place I just came from within a provincial park - it's a dude ranch, that's how they run them. The animals are tacked up for 12 hours a day, and they spend all day carting around people who can't ride. Rain or shine, they will be there. And when they've come to the end of their lives, they will go to auction where they will likely be picked up for slaughter.
> 
> You can try to do something about it, but I highly doubt anyone is going to listen. As long as they have food and water, and none of the horses are keeling over dead from heat exhaustion, there's nothing anybody can do. It's within their right as a business to use their horses as they see fit within a few VERY loose general animal keeping guidelines.
> 
> It sucks, and power to you, but if they're not starving (you can't seem to prove they are) or beating them, I could think of worse lives a horse could have.


How about lack of adequate water or putting mentally disabled riders on untrained horses?

It is so true what you are saying, and it sucks so much. I wish people would care more about a life, for it is not whether an animal can think or reason, but if it can suffer.

Thanks for your input


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

They are not treating thier horses any worse than someone that leaves thier horse in a stall 23 hours per day. The horses get sufficent feed and plenty of exercise. They may be ridden by novices but they are undemanding novices. Of course an advanced rider would not find it very much fun but for many people it is the only way they have any contact with horses.


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## HorsesRForever (May 1, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> They are not treating thier horses any worse than someone that leaves thier horse in a stall 23 hours per day. The horses get sufficent feed and plenty of exercise. They may be ridden by novices but they are undemanding novices. Of course an advanced rider would not find it very much fun but for many people it is the only way they have any contact with horses.



Comparing to bad acts doesn't mean one is better. They are both wrong. The people that are riding these horses that are new are getting bucked off and started galloping without notice, which makes people fall and get injured. They wouldn't even help a rider who was knocked out from the horse.

It wasn't that it's not fun for advance riders, but that the horses run all day everyday without a break or proper anything. You have to be an advanced rider to be able to ride those horses and even then they are still sometimes dangerous.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I think you may be exagerating a little since they have been in business since 1988.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Thoses horses are being used as horses. They may not seem to be treated like you think they should, but like kevinshorses said, they have been in business sine 1988.
Outfitters use horses HARD and I mean hard. Its nothing for them to work daily climbing up the mountains packing camps or dudes that have no clue how to ride. In hot weather, in freezing weather, in snow and rain, they get used daily. Yep, they get tired and they have tack on them from usually 5 in the morning till after dark, they get fed and watered and then start again the next day. Wyoming, Utah and Idaho have some rough country and lots of climbing. Horses on flat land being ridden have it easy compared to outfitters horses.
Some would say I don't use my horses enough and to some thats cruel.
I have an issue with alot of horse folks around here do not water in the winter, they feel the horses can eat snow. I hate it and of course my horses have heated water tanks. My horses live outside in -30 degree weather, in snow up to their bellies and they stand outside during the worst snow storms. Some would say that is cruel, but horses around here are used to that. They have a lean to, but don't use it.
Everyones idea of being treated bad is different and more so from one end of the country to the other.
If you really feel they are being mistreated, then call the local sheriff or police office. File a complaint and see what they say.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

I ride my personal horses some days for many hours. We do HARD trails sometimes up here in the mountains and have gone many many miles in a day before. 25 miles and more. When we camp, they stand tied or high lined in tack all day. I never "cool my horse out" because the only horses that really need cooled out are ones doing strenuous work and are breathing hard when your ride is done. I will work mine hard but I will walk them till their breathing is normal before I get back. No cooling needed. They drink from whatever water we come to on the trails. Sometimes its hot. They sweat...alot sometimes. Think of endurance horses in training.

That was indeed a "dude" ranch. I guided at one for 10 years. It isn't like a boarding barn. These horses have a job to do. They are not show horses. They didn't ask your riding skill because most people who have ever ridden say they are "experts" anyway because they have ridden 5 times before at a dude ranch. Its useless to ask. They know their horses and send a guide to avert problems. The guides know the horses best and know that this one tries to turn around and that one likes to try to pass or lags behind. They coach each rider as they go even the newbies. If they are going to trail ride, they are going to have to ride. No horse is perfect 100% of the time.

The only thing I disagree with is no shade over the holding pen. Ours had covered standing stalls and I routinely sprayed the horses down in between rides with the hose when it was a scorcher to keep them cool. We were in a very touristy area. We had about 40 head give or take that rode from 9 am to 5 PM. Some days it was solid. They unloaded a ride got a drink rested for 5 minutes and got loaded up again with another. these horses rode around 30 miles a day on those days. they got days off here and there as we felt a horse needed a rest. They all got fed Am and PM a high energy feed and were turned out all night on free choice round rolls. Most of our horses were fat and sold very often to people wanting solid trail horses. We had alot of turnover because we could turn out a solid trail horse with lots of miles under its belt. When we did get a thin horse in, it typically looked 10000% better in a month or two even in work. 

You need more info IMO. Just because the horses work hard doesn't mean they are poorly kept. Just because a hose is missing hair doesn't mean anything either. when they live in a herd they bit and kick each other and like it. Its what they do. There are lots of horses out there headed to slaughter or starving in someone field. I bet each of them would pick a working life at a dude ranch to that. 

JMO.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

kevinshorses said:


> I think you may be exagerating a little since they have been in business since 1988.


Kevin, we have a trail riding barn here in MD, which is in business for years and years. Horses are treated same way as OP described (work, work, work all day long, no cooling, marks and open sores(!) all over the body, etc.). Plus they are fed a low-quality moldy cow hay, no grass at all in pasture, little bit of stinky smelty sweet feed on mornings of trail riding (IF the owner buys the feed, sometime there is none). Horses at that farm die all the time, just collapse and gone. I know people tried numerously to bring AC there, BUT looks like the owner has friends there, so all attempts were useless. That farm almost everyone around knows about and it's a complete shame on horse community here. I'm not a first time rider, I've seen it all, and I'm not exaggerating here. Still they are in business for very long time. 

OP, I don't think much can be done. If they are in very bad shape you can report to Animal Control. But AC usually not very active about it.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

kitten_Val said:


> Kevin, we have a trail riding barn here in MD, which is in business for years and years. Horses are treated same way as OP described (work, work, work all day long, no cooling, marks and open sores(!) all over the body, etc.). Plus they are fed a low-quality moldy cow hay, no grass at all in pasture, little bit of stinky smelty sweet feed on mornings of trail riding (IF the owner buys the feed, sometime there is none). Horses at that farm die all the time, just collapse and gone. I know people tried numerously to bring AC there, BUT looks like the owner has friends there, so all attempts were useless. That farm almost everyone around knows about and it's a complete shame on horse community here. I'm not a first time rider, I've seen it all, and I'm not exaggerating here. Still they are in business for very long time.
> 
> OP, I don't think much can be done. If they are in very bad shape you can report to Animal Control. But AC usually not very active about it.


We have a place in our area that sounds eerily like this Val! Dozens of horses tacked & tied all day with no access to water, manure 6 ft deep in the "turnouts" on the back of their boarder barns (typically vacationers who summer here because of our lakes that lease their horses), know someone who watched a "training" session out there where the owner put tires around the horse's front legs, tied them over it's back and then rode it, the reason "he can't buck that way", horse ended up a bloody mess. They have been called on numerous times and were given court order on proper care and a time frame that it had to be taken care of within. When AC went back they found that they had a major strangles outbreak. The worst part, they were still up and operational and using these sick horses. The place is now under quarantine and hopefully they've had their eyes opened to proper care. 

I totally understand that horses at dude ranches/trail riding outfits/etc are used hard. I have no problem with horses doing a true day's work, but there needs to be some protocol on how they are taken care of while doing so.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Sparying down a horse in the heat only cools them down at that particular time the water then lies on the hair and heats up making them hotter then before.

I worked in a trail centre where we tacked up at 7.00AM then loaded up in the truck and they stayed tacked until 8.00 at night when we trucked home they were then let to the field for the night. These horses worked 7days a week in the summer so 5months and got winter off,

To customers it looked like the horses never got a break and were treated cruel as they only saw then tacked up and covered in sweat marks or wiht herd marks on them. However thats there job for the rest of the year they do nothing but eat. And they love it you can tell you only have to halter up one horse and lead him down everyone else steps into line and follows him down the field.
If they didnt wan to come in they wouldnt i know if my guys dont want to come in they charge around the field for hours.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I do not get all the uproar about not cooling the horse down. I highly doubt this was a trail ride that included 2 hours of galloping. Wasn't it mainly walking? I am guessing after walking back to the facility the horse was as cooled down as it was going to get.


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## Dusty1228 (Dec 2, 2010)

HorsesRForever said:


> I went to this trail riding facility that I had overheard a trainer at my stable recommend to a person. I didn't like what I saw.
> 
> This is what I saw:
> At first, I saw a stable that wasn't that well kept, but it didn't bother me that much because I had been to stables that did not look the best on the outside, but all the horses were well cared for and it was an overall good facility. It was my first time there, so I didn't want to make my opinion without giving it a full try.
> ...


I had a problem like this at a very near by park that offered short pony and horse rides. And also a place that offered one hour, untended rides on their property.
Skip animal control, they won't do a thing. BBB didn't help me either.
*Write and/or call your congressman.* If you can possibly contact anyone else that has the same thoughts as you, go in on it together and write a few letters.
I know it might sound drastic, to write a congressman who probably won't care about 'mere horses', but believe me, it works just the opposite way you would think. 
This is something that they have the capacity and the means to take care of and/or look into. In essence, it's a simple fix, and anything that they can do to please constituents AND it's easy, they will jump to.
I did this in BOTH of my cases. One place is no longer in business and the other is a VERY nice facility now, lots of water, they actually BUILT a canopy for the horses to stand under, etc. 
Again, I know this might seem drastic and also, I am in Michigan, no where near you, but, if you are THAT concerned, write, write, write! Make a nuisance of yourself.
Good Luck.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

HorsesRForever said:


> The people that are riding these horses that are new are getting bucked off and started galloping without notice, which makes people fall and get injured. They wouldn't even help a rider who was knocked out from the horse.


If these people are "new", whose to say they were even remotely close to galloping or the horse was bucking? As horse people, how many "new" people have we all seen that hop on a horse and start screeching "OMG he's galloping" while we're trying really hard not to laugh because the horse isn't even doing a decent trot? Or the horse puts it's head down to grab a snack because the rider isn't paying any attention or even actively holding the reins, said rider promptly flops off and is now loudly proclaiming that the horse bucked them off.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Del, that is exactly how it is. Newbies are always proclaiming the black stallion they rode the one time they went riding galloped off and starting bucking when it was some shaggy nose to tail trail string horse who barely did a fast walk and they slid off the side.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I do not get all the uproar about not cooling the horse down. I highly doubt this was a trail ride that included 2 hours of galloping. Wasn't it mainly walking? I am guessing after walking back to the facility the horse was as cooled down as it was going to get.


Not quite. I don't know the OP situation (especially given OP sounds like a beginner), but on farm I'm talking about horses were sweaty as hell for almost whole day. They worked 3-4 groups each day (1+ hour each) and while yes, there was no gallop of course, carrying 200+ lbs of bouncing all over a place a beginner in 90+ F in very high humidity definitely wouldn't keep them cool. And on top of it when they are sweaty those cheap bad-fitted saddles slip around even more causing sores.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

MaggiStar said:


> Sparying down a horse in the heat only cools them down at that particular time the water then lies on the hair and heats up making them hotter then before.


Not if you scrape them  They were much happier and lots less itchy with salty sweat.




kitten_Val said:


> Not quite. I don't know the OP situation (especially given OP sounds like a beginner), but on farm I'm talking about horses were sweaty as hell for almost whole day. They worked 3-4 groups each day (1+ hour each) and while yes, there was no gallop of course, carrying 200+ lbs of bouncing all over a place a beginner in 90+ F in very high humidity definitely wouldn't keep them cool. And on top of it when they are sweaty those cheap bad-fitted saddles slip around even more causing sores.


Yes but just being sweaty isn't "hot" In the horse world, a hot horse needing "cooled down" or "walked out" is one who is breathing hard and has had forced strenuous exercises. keeping him walking keeps him from cramping up and allows him to get his breathing back to normal. It is not for a horse that is sweaty because its hot out and he has been trail rode unless he galloped in. There is a difference. 

Riding instructors frequently have their young walk/trot charges "cool out" their ride to teach them proper etiquette and "how to" but in reality the horse really doesn't need much more than a rinse off and scrape. This has lead to this popular strange idea that if a horse is "sweaty", he must be "cooled out" I also blame Walter Farley. It doesn't hurt the horse at all but it isn't necessary for a normal, fit horse. So do I need to cool out my horses after they run around the pasture for a few min and get sweated up in the summer heat? How about if they are just standing there and sweating? lol...No. Of course not. 



Delfina said:


> If these people are "new", whose to say they were even remotely close to galloping or the horse was bucking? As horse people, how many "new" people have we all seen that hop on a horse and start screeching "OMG he's galloping" while we're trying really hard not to laugh because the horse isn't even doing a decent trot? Or the horse puts it's head down to grab a snack because the rider isn't paying any attention or even actively holding the reins, said rider promptly flops off and is now loudly proclaiming that the horse bucked them off.





Alwaysbehind said:


> Del, that is exactly how it is. Newbies are always proclaiming the black stallion they rode the one time they went riding galloped off and starting bucking when it was some shaggy nose to tail trail string horse who barely did a fast walk and they slid off the side.


And this is exactly why it does no good to ask about experiance lol...Those same people will profess to be "riders" when asked.

Most popular question at a guided public trail riding facility?

"How long is the 1 hour ride?" 

"Its about 4 miles"

"But how long is it?"

"The 1 hour ride takes about 1 hour?" *raised eyebrows*

"Oh yeah"

Thats the level you deal with LOL


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Trinity3205 said:


> Yes but just being sweaty isn't "hot" In the horse world, a hot horse needing "cooled down" or "walked out" is one who is breathing hard and has had forced strenuous exercises. keeping him walking keeps him from cramping up and allows him to get his breathing back to normal. It is not for a horse that is sweaty because its hot out and he has been trail rode unless he galloped in. There is a difference.


I respectfully disagree. You can't keep horse under sun for the whole day in high temp + humidity + working non-stop just because "trail is just walk, no gallop". 

"Good sense, as always, is your best ally when it comes to taking care of your horses. If you step outside and feel as though you have walked into a sauna, if the temperature is high, the humidity is high, there is no air moving and no possibility of any sweat drying, and your lungs are having a hard time dealing with air that feels wet and heavy, it's a good day to ride before sun-up, after sun-down, or avoid riding altogether." (Jessica Jahiel's HORSE-SENSE Newsletter Archives)


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I respectfully disagree. You can't keep horse under sun for the whole day in high temp + humidity + working non-stop just because "trail is just walk, no gallop".


Maybe you shouldn't, but you certainly "can". The place we come from has been in business for decades, and I haven't caught wind yet of any horses dropping dead. The horses are saddled at 7am, and stand in a tight group in a dusty paddock with no shade and some tepid water. They go out every hour, on the hour, until night fall. They have a string of horses to replace injured ones, but it's usually the same horses every single day. Same story, they get fed disgusting hay and treated pretty lousy by the help (none of who have any actual horse experience, just dumb city kids looking for a summer job and beating up on horses and running them into the ground sounds fun).

In winter, it's the Draft horses that bear the brunt of it. Sleigh rides are even worse, from dawn until dusk, non-stop all winter even in -40. The horses are COVERED in sweat and frost from their ears to their tails. Oh and combined with being driven by total idiots who have NO horse sense and managed to crack apart 3 different sleighs this past winter. :roll:

Horses are a lot more resilient then we give them credit for. I certainly don't agree with it, but the animals are always fed and watered, none of them are visibly injured while working, and no skinny animals are used. What is anybody going to do?

Oh, and when they've used them up, they get shipped for slaughter.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> I respectfully disagree. You can't keep horse under sun for the whole day in high temp + humidity + working non-stop just because "trail is just walk, no gallop".
> 
> "Good sense, as always, is your best ally when it comes to taking care of your horses. If you step outside and feel as though you have walked into a sauna, if the temperature is high, the humidity is high, there is no air moving and no possibility of any sweat drying, and your lungs are having a hard time dealing with air that feels wet and heavy, it's a good day to ride before sun-up, after sun-down, or avoid riding altogether." (Jessica Jahiel's HORSE-SENSE Newsletter Archives)


Well, this is something totally different than what I was talking about re: "cooling a hot horse out" but I will address it anyway.

It can be very dangerous to ride an unfit, fat horse in hot humid weather. Most people's backyard horses are indeed unfit and usually obese unlike those fit trail horses going 25 to 30 miles a day with ease.

I will say that walking trails with fit horses even in the worst heat does not prose a problem for most healthy fit horses. Not to mention most horse trails are at least 50 % shaded and have water on them. I know this from experiance and hundreds of horses that passed through the stables. There was only one time we had a horse overheat and that was a young draft mare (heavy horses are notorously hard to keep cool anyways. they are much better in the cold due to their body mass) who was found to be heat intolerant anyway and was sold as a trail horse soon after to a private home. 



MacabreMikolaj said:


> Horses are a lot more resilient then we give them credit for. I certainly don't agree with it, but the animals are always fed and watered, none of them are visibly injured while working, and no skinny animals are used. What is anybody going to do?
> 
> Oh, and when they've used them up, they get shipped for slaughter.


 
They are indeed. But that doesnt mean all stables are full of yahoos either with mistreated animals that once they outlive their usefulness always go to slaughter. We retired many older horses who worked for us a long time to great homes for free or peanuts. They are in it to make money but that isnt evil. Its supporting the workers, owners and the horses isnt it? The horses do get used but I have been to many stables where they take pretty good care of their horses. There are indeed some crappy ones also that do mistreat their animals however. Its hard to make that judgement just from what we have been told so far IMO.

The main stables I worked at took many horses that would have went to slaughter had we not taken them in, fattened and fitted them up and gave them some wet saddle blankets. We sold MANY MANT MANY horses to trail riding homes. I couldnt even count how many in the time I was there. Over a thousand Im absolutley sure and I rode almost every one of them. 

These horses would come in many times spoiled and sometimes with training issues the average person could not fix, too fat or too skinny, skin problems, hoof problems, teeth problems...things like that. We fixed them up, medicated them, floated teeth and pulled wolf teeth, fitted them up and got them riding well an on the string. Some of them I would barely get ridden enough that we would graduate them from being a "guides only" horse before someone snatched them up and took them home. I personally bought many project horses at this time and made money riding and selling them. We never sold anything directly to slaughter unless it was deemed dangerous and unsuitable. I can think of 1 georgeous black and white mare who fit that bill in 10 years. We did trade in a few unsuitable or chronically unsound horses who didnt work out for us now and then to the local horse dealer and got replacements. We would get 8 or 10 at a time from the horse dealer when we would end up low on horses and invariously a couple of them would not be sound for hard work (all auction horses im sure. We got dressage horses, warmbloods, fresian crosses, well bred QHs and paints, appys. Our local trader had a great eye for a quality horse. Used to be the kill buyers/horse dealers made the most money off resale horses. That is what we would buy.) Most of the time, people came to us and bought steady working trail horses however and that is how most horses left the property. 

We fed super great quality local hay and supported local farmers. They ate a custom grain mix twice a day and most of them got baths on a regular basis. I fitted all the tack personally and rarely had saddle sores. Girth sores happened sometimes on fat or uncalloused this skninned horses but we always healed them up with a variety of methods, y rigging and fleece girth covers etc (while riding them if they werent too bad..yes it can be done and they wont sore again if they stay in work with a clean cinch and a proper fit) 


Anyway, 

It isnt fair to pain all places with the same brush. Its a business, but without the horses they dont have much do they? Our horses were our bread and butter and as a guide, if I didnt give a good ride on nice looking horses, I didnt make much money. We worked for tips. There were occasional accidents, most not serious, but 99% of the time it was rider error or someone just literally fell off leaning away from the edges of the trail lol...Like the horse was going to suicide over the edge. *shakes head* I remember one lady who apparently lubed herself up with a whole thing of sunscreen wearing short shorts and slide right off the saddle when her horse trotted a couple steps to keep up. You cant cure ignorance and you cant keep every person from doing something dumb and getting hurt just as you cant control every horse every second. even the most steady. There are always inherant risks riding a horse.

I think dude type stables are having a harder time doing the right thing and buying quality hay right now due to the economy and costs. Its a sad thing. The horse market is down and tourism down. I personally know several that have closed down and sold their stock off because they couldnt pay the bills or the feed. Those horses would have been better off staying at the stables. I hate to think where some of them are now. Its a bad time to be a horse without a job.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I didn't mean to give the impression of ALL stables, I was referring specifically and only to the one I was associated with. There is another dude stable around here that is completely different, 100% opposite and well respected.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Maybe you shouldn't, but you certainly "can".


Lol! I agree with this remark. I always talk from the owner prospective. 



MacabreMikolaj said:


> The place we come from has been in business for decades, and I haven't caught wind yet of any horses dropping dead.


I did in that place here. The horses DID drop dead just right on spot without any sign of real sickness. And I have to say it was very sad. The (****) owner claimed it on "age and so on", but when it's like several horses/year I do NOT believe it's an age thing.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I didn't mean to give the impression of ALL stables, I was referring specifically and only to the one I was associated with. There is another dude stable around here that is completely different, 100% opposite and well respected.


Yep, that's very true. Depends on stable. I've been in different one and horses were cared for. So it's just one shame barn in area.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Trinity3205 said:


> I will say that walking trails with fit horses even in the worst heat does not prose a problem for most healthy fit horses.


Trinity, I have NO problem horses working on trail for several hours. I did ride for 3 hours myself on my own mare (not anymore as I found it to be kinda boring :wink: ). My problem is not just 4 hours of riding in hot weather. My problem is when badly fed and sore horses are made to ride for several hours with the hot + humid weather on top of it. I can only imagine how all those sores feel when you have saddle + heavy rider on top of you for several hours and the whole thing slides ride on top of the sore because of the sweat...


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

So we all agree it seems  There are good "dude" ranches and bad and riding in the heat does not always equate mistreatment. Id like to know more about the place posted about before making judgment based on what we have read so far.. 

Underfed, skinny (unless a new horse being rehabbed as we did on occasion) and sored, untreated horses are not good anywhere, dude ranches or lesson barns or backyards.


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