# Can Cold Temperatures Affect Castration?



## xxdanioo (Jan 17, 2012)

I had Walter gelded this past February, outdoors. It was below 0 celcius for sure, and it's better to do the gelding when it's cold and no flies. I don't know if 40F is cold or not.. but i know my vet didn't want to geld Walter when it was -30C lol.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

There is a concern that when temps drop and you sedate the colt, he can not properly regulate his body temperature which could lead to other complications. If he is a ”rescue” with other compromising issues, i think the vet's concerns are valid. My vets won't do it when it's in the low 40's.
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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Ok, thanks for the info! He's mostly healthy, just has hooves that are way too long (trimming is scheduled) and he may have a wormy belly. He's not underweight or sick. Would a blanket or cooler help the situation? I asked the vet's assistant and she said she'd ask him about it asap.
Xxdanioo, 0 celsius is 32 degrees fahrenheit, if that gives you a little reference.
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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Eh, I got my colt gelded when it was in the teens and spitting sleet and he did fine. 

If you wanted, you could probably try another vet, but at this point, any other vet wouldn't likely be able to get you in any sooner than Friday anyway.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I am not a vet but I can't say I have ever heard of why they couldn't do it in chilly weather. 

Although the body temperature thing does make sense. But then again, they're back to normal in a couple hours when they wake up. 

Is there a heated area anywhere in the barn that would alleviate this problem?

I would think the cold air would help with clotting (errr freezing) any blood.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Going by the signs helps more than anything. This applies to weaning, castration, tipping horns in cattle, etc. I'd make sure and do it by the signs. You'll be amazed how quickly they heal as opposed to doing it at the wrong time.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

The cold also helps with post-op swelling. Taz didn't swell up hardly at all after he was gelded...and he had hernia surgery at the same time.


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

I thought it would help with swelling as well... We're looking into getting a vet that I've used once before out to do it. He's farther away but the other vet has been hard to work with today and did not call back with info like they had promised. I'm not very happy with them at all. And I really like the other vet. Would have been using him all along but I didn't know he drove out this far until a fellow horsey friend in town told me she uses him. 

6W Ranch, could you please explain? I've never heard of gelding "by the signs" before...
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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Yes, it has to do with the zodiac signs and specifically the gravitational pull of the moon. There is truth to the saying emergency rooms are more crowded on a full moon. 

You always want to castrate on dates below the groin, going downward (see chart). Each month has a specific window of ideal days for this. Man of The Signs Zodiac Moon's Sign Calendar Astrological Place Chart

We always try to go by the signs when doing any type of elective weaning, and castration. The dates vary depending if you are weaning, castrating, etc. Calves weaned according to the dates only bawl about 2 days, and there is less sickness. If weaned at the wrong time, they bawl 3-4 days, and they may be a little more puny/more likely to get sick. Same with the cows, they bawl longer for their babies.

Also, I have found that when gelding a colt in this time frame, it's an excellent opportunity to back the colt for the first time. I was riding my colt in 2 days. He had no swelling, no discomfort, but wasn't feeling quite good enough to buck me off. Of course I had done the proper ground work before hand, but was waiting for him to be slightly vulnerable. He healed beautifully, and I never looked back with his training. Never skipped a beat. 

Cooler weather def. helps with swelling and flies, but not doing it during the right signs can be as bad or worse than castration during hot, humid fly season.

Vets downplay this, as they can't schedule things around the signs, but the vets we know, know the truth of the signs.

This link explains it well, and we operate the same way: http://www.stallingspainthorses.com/trainer/castrate-moon-signs.htm

Just check the farmers almanac, and make sure moon signs are in the "thighs" going "down".


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

All I'm going to say is that some thread titles make me cringe!

"Can Cold Temperatures Affect Castration?"

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Makes me glad I'm living in southern Arizona...


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Yeah, bsms, I am not a fan of cold weather either, but it's here. Honestly, we've been lucky this year in this area. This is the first time we've dropped below 25 degrees at night this season. Normally we hit that by the end of October. And we're supposed to be back into the 50s by Friday, so this particular chilly spell will be short-lived. Hubby and I are hoping to move to Arkansas within the next year... It's warmer down there!

In regard to the castration, I couldn't get a hold of my other vet either, I'm guessing due to it being the end of a weekend/holiday. I'm going to go ahead and let this vet get it taken care of as soon as he can, but from here on out I'm calling the other vet. *sigh*


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

We have gelded colts in the snow. No issues, except cold for us.........


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## Phly (Nov 14, 2012)

I know for a fact that they can be gelded non drugged and in the dead of winter. I'd say youre being put off for one reasons or a nother.
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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Phly said:


> I know for a fact that they can be gelded non drugged and in the dead of winter. I'd say youre being put off for one reasons or a nother.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not drugged?! :shock: I don't nock my colts out cold but I always have a light sedation done for them(basically the way we sedate for teeth floating). I wouldn't want to cut the poor colts bits off without something. It makwa it at least a little less traumatic.

I have had my colts done in the middle of the winter on a cold day. I actually like gelding them in the winter vs the summer. It might be a little chilly(I am in Canada) but it seems to go a lot smoother and less swelling.


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Update on the situation: I was able to cancel the appointment with the original vet and schedule it with the one I prefer for Thursday. I know it's only one day's difference, but I'm glad I got to cancel with the other one... Maybe it'll get them thinking about up-ing their customer service quality. Also, this vet is doing it for less money and is just going to tranquilize him and not put him completely under for the procedure. I feel much more comfortable with that. This vet did also voice minor concerns about the colt's ability to control his body temp, but said he didn't think it was worth waiting to do it. He said, "It's a real simple, short procedure. I'm sure he'll be fine." I love this guy already!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I have had 2 colts done in the dead of winter, belowing freezing temps and snow on the ground. Both had minimal swelling and no problems whatsoever.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Lwhisperer said:


> Update on the situation: I was able to cancel the appointment with the original vet and schedule it with the one I prefer for Thursday. I know it's only one day's difference, but I'm glad I got to cancel with the other one... Maybe it'll get them thinking about up-ing their customer service quality. Also, this vet is doing it for less money and is just going to tranquilize him and not put him completely under for the procedure. I feel much more comfortable with that. This vet did also voice minor concerns about the colt's ability to control his body temp, but said he didn't think it was worth waiting to do it. He said, "It's a real simple, short procedure. I'm sure he'll be fine." I love this guy already!


Love the sounds of this vet. And yes sedation is much smoother then knocking them out completely. Its a quick and simple procedure. Glad to hear things are working out for you!


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

this is the first time I have heard anything about cold, frequently it is the other way around. WAIT for the cold when there are no bugs. But I'm not a Doctor, looks like you found another vet that doesnt think its an issue though.


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## BarrelRacingLvr (Feb 26, 2012)

We usually cut our colts in the spring/early summer of their yearling year....but when we cut Scrat this January it was about 12F out and he was sedated and layed down. No issues....

And a castration shouldn't take very long anyhow so they really wouldn't be out that long.

I liked cutting him in the cold anyway, because it kept the swelling down. It was puffy the next morning but NOTHING like the yearlings are in the Spring/Early Summer time. Plus you don't have to worry about the flies and such bothering them.


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## katieandscooby (Feb 14, 2010)

Does it affect the surgery? No not really. As long as everything does not freeze and works properly. It gets harder to pull down testicles in the cold weather though, as long as the colt doesn't have a highish one then not a big deal. But dropping a baby into a snowbank in cold weather is a bad situation waiting to happen. Knocking them out is hard on them when the weather is good and warm. It takes that much longer and the liver and kidneys work that much harder to get the drugs out of the system. Puts them at greater risk for a bunch of issues we try to avoid. Most people out here don't have a decent facility to do colts out here, which is why we try to wait until fall or spring to do them. If there is a barn and good lighting then we can do it. Otherwise we wait till spring and grass to lay them down. 

I worked for a vet who did them standing. Scared the crap outta me. I prefer to lay them down any day of the week.
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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Cooler weather is def. a plus. We used to have our colts cut, but have since switched to the drill method done by our vet. The colts are put down for a few minutes. They don't feel anything, and they bounce back so much sooner. No swelling, no bleeding. In addition, we always schedule this according to the signs, so that helps, too. Like I said before, I backed my colt days after, and he didn't trot around like he was sore. Also, he didn't feel like bucking, so that was a plus. The movement did help with the soreness, too.

On another note, while hard to watch, if anyone is getting ready to geld their colt, I recommend the drill method. 

Two years ago, a couple of our colts had a very hard time in humid weather, after being cut. Lots of things can affect castration, and occasionally things can go wrong. We didn't go by the signs, as the person doing it was not as flexible. Also, it was warm and humid.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

So 6w... how old are these colts you are backing? Weanlings? Yearlings? Considering that is around the age most people geld telling them to back their horse at that same time is asinine and dangerous to the horse in question...


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## littrella (Aug 28, 2010)

I know my vet wont geld when the ground is frozen. He knocks them out & he told me the lenght of time down on frozen ground is too hard on them. Where in NE are you at?


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Littrella, I'm in the Lincoln area. The gelding is taking place as we speak. I'll give an update on how it goes once I go see him after work. Hubby is out there supervising so he can give me the entire run-down on what happens. Really wish I could be there... Stupid job. Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Ok, just got word from hubby. Since Rebel's previous owner didn't handle him much at all, vet decided to just lay him down on a clean blanket in our indoor arena. The whole procedure took 5 minutes and he's up and walking around in the round pen. He'll stay there so he has more space to move around than in his stall, and I'll put him back after work. The current temp is just shy of 50 degrees, so I guess we didn't even test the cold weather theory afterall. Oh well. Lol. Also, the total damage to the bank acvount
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

account* was only $75. The other vet was going to charge us $255. So yeah. I love this vet. 
P.S. Sorry about the interrupted post... My phone can be unreliable when it comes to this website. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Glad to hear it went nice and smooth!


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> So 6w... how old are these colts you are backing? Weanlings? Yearlings? Considering that is around the age most people geld telling them to back their horse at that same time is asinine and dangerous to the horse in question...


 You're kidding, right? Weanlings, yearlings? LOL! You are saying what I did is asinine and dangerous? How many colts do you start a year? I've started 4-3 yr olds since spring, and none have offered to buck, nor have they been harmed in any way. I would never back anything that wasn't at least a 2 yr old, although the colt I referred to was closer to 3. 

We don't start our colts until they are 3, which is one reason our horses stay sound, and last a long time for us, and those that buy horses from us. Backing one and walking/lightly trotting for a few minutes around the round pen is not the same as breaking one to ride. However, that said, that tiny bit of work sticks in their head, so that when I do start them on down the road, much headway has already been made. And, what I speak of it not dangerous at all.

I realize not every one is equipped to run a stud colt until they are 2-3 yrs old. We are, and have 4 stud colts on pasture on the other side of the ranch from mares. 

Between my husband and I, we have good bit of experience, and I do know what I'm talking about in regards to knowing what age to start one successfully, and how much/how little pressure they can take. I wouldn't start a warmblood until they were closer to 4, as they mature slower mentally and physically. We don't put much pressure on colts unlike many show horse people. Everyone does things differently, and I've seen the mistakes and results of horses starting too early. It's one of the reasons I'm not a fan of reining, or some of the other disciplines that start horses way too early. 

I'd be willing to bet we geld many more colts than the average horse person.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You apparently misread what NdAppy was saying.

The MAJORITY of people geld as soon as the 'boys' drop, which can be any time between 3 and 12 months, which is why she was questioning your backing of babies.

I guess my question to you is why do you wait so long to geld? It seems rather silly to let colts keep their testicles for several years if you plan to geld them anyway.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

We geld them at that age for a few VERY good reasons. 

First of all, we would NEVER geld a weaner or even yearling. We like our colts to get a nice neck on them, and mature a bit before gelding them, it does make a difference in their appearance, and anyone with a good eye can see it. They look better, and we're a position to wait. 

Secondly, We have some bloodlines we're pretty proud of, both in saddle horses and our bucking stock. One of the colts I speak of is a double-bred Dash For Cash, and Special Effort 3 yr old. We have lots of people interested in this colt. As for the other colts, since this is a horse riding forum, some people may not be familiar with bucking stock, but NFR level horses are quite valuable. We have a few out of a mare that sold for $125K last year at the NFR sale. These aren't carrot eating pets, they are top quality bucking stock, which is why we wait for the cream to rise to the top. Once we know what we've got as far as the colt's ability and value, we decide what to do with them. 

Another reason, we had a 2 1/2 yr old that still hadn't dropped a nut.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> You apparently misread what NdAppy was saying.
> 
> The MAJORITY of people geld as soon as the 'boys' drop, which can be any time between 3 and 12 months


Gelding at 3 months? And someone said I'm asinine? LOL


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Why not geld that young? If the testicles are there, and there is no need for them why not take them off? What physical/medical reasons _other than appearance_ is there to keep the testicles any longer?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

There's nothing wrong with the appearance of a horse gelded as soon as he drops, unless you're looking for the cresty stallion neck. Not everyone thinks that's attractive in a gelding. 'Looking better' is subjective, and completely open to interpretation.

You certainly are all high and mighty pontificating about what's_ best_ for a horse, but since the majority of people geld early, I'd say their opinions have as much merit as any of yours. Also, claiming to be better or having done more than most people on the BB won't get you anywhere, it just makes you look like an arrogant braggart.

Oh, and as far as doing anything based on the zodiac signs? You should be aware that the zodiac charts do _not_ correspond to the night sky of today. Stars and planets are not fixed and move around quite a bit, so all those zodiac charts that people put so much stock in are grossly outdated. But everyone has their own little superstitions and beliefs, and while yours may be a little strange they're not terribly inconveniencing to your vet, which is why he/she goes along with them.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Why not geld that young? If the testicles are there, and there is no need for them why not take them off? What physical/medical reasons _other than appearance_ is there to keep the testicles any longer?


I've given you the VERY good reasons why we wait. It's good to wait for the same reason you don't neuter a dog too early. Just because they've dropped doesn't mean they are mature. A colt doesn't complete his growth in the same way as he would, if he were allowed to reach sexual maturity. We have a 7 month old colt who has fully dropped, but he's not sexually mature, and there's no way we'd geld him now. 

Also, it will definitely affect personality similarly to the way it affects a dog. If you want a dog that is somewhat puppy-like forever, then neuter him early. The horse WILL perform far better if permitted to mature further. They have better minds, focus and better appearance.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Speed racer, it seems the statements I've posted anger you. I really don't care to make friends, I'm only offering helpful advice when I have something to offer on a post, as it may help someone with their horse. Some people benefit from other people's experiences. 

As for the appearance, I'm not talking about a thick, cresty neck. Anyone with a good eye can see the difference, and knows what I'm talking about in the difference between a gelding that was cut while immature, and it's not just the neck.

It seems the common sense reasons we wait to geld later anger you. I've posted some very good reasons that some owners of colts may not be aware of. Some people may not know gelding too soon affects their appearance. I'm not all high and mighty, but I think it's asinine to geld a 3 month old, or even 7 month old. I didn't claim to be better, I claimed we probably geld more than many people. You seem awfully angry at being presented with perfectly logical reasoning and common sense. 

You obviously know nothing about the signs, or what I'm talking about. If you looked into it at all, you'd understand planetary movement is precisely why the dates change each month. Many people who raise a lot of livestock be it horses, cattle, etc. know about the signs. This even applies to planting crops. It's not superstition, my dear. God gave us the signs in the sky to know when to plant, and care for our God given livestock. Even the Bible mentions the signs in the sky, but I'm going to get into Scripture with you. 

While I may be strange to you, I find you to be quite rude.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

6W Ranch said:


> I've given you the VERY good reasons why we wait. It's good to wait for the same reason you don't neuter a dog too early. Just because they've dropped doesn't mean they are mature. A colt doesn't complete his growth in the same way as he would, if he were allowed to reach sexual maturity. We have a 7 month old colt who has fully dropped, but he's not sexually mature, and there's no way we'd geld him now.
> 
> Also, it will definitely affect personality similarly to the way it affects a dog. If you want a dog that is somewhat puppy-like forever, then neuter him early. The horse WILL perform far better if permitted to mature further. They have better minds, focus and better appearance.


The underlined statement is completely false. It has been a long established fact that geldings will actually "complete their growth" to a greater extent than a stallion. This is because the growth plates get a message to stop growing when a colt reaches sexual maturity, thus actually stunting the horse's potential growth. Not only can this impact the eventual height of the horse, but if a colt reaches sexual maturity at an awkward growth stage, that can be retained as his "normal" conformation. Additionally, any muscle mass gained as a result of the extra testosterone in a colt's system will actually be lost slowly post gelding, so there is no benefit at all.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

So, the OP got her 7-month old colt gelded, seems to be fine & the vet only charged her $75-sounds good all around. Her board barn required the gelding be done. Stallions/intact colts aren't welcome everywhere. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Cacowgirl said:


> So, the OP got her 7-month old colt gelded, seems to be fine & the vet only charged her $75-sounds good all around. Her board barn required the gelding be done. Stallions/intact colts aren't welcome everywhere. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.


Exactry!!

Yay for good/not crazy vets that charge normal prices!!


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

And IMO, waiting to geld a horse until sexual maturity so the hormones can bulk them up is pointless and unnecessary. For example, I have a stallion and a gelding at my place right now that are full brothers, the gelding is twice as wide and has much more bulk and substance than his stallion brother. And they are 15 and 12, so obviously aren't going to be maturing any more, lol. If I put them side by side and asked you to guess which was which, with the obvious bits hidden from view, I'd bet money you would guess wrong.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Anyone who thinks it's normal, or possibly advantageous to geld a 3 month old either lacks experience, common sense, or both. 

I completely disagree with your comparison. My geldings look nothing like our stallions. I suppose someone who didn't know what they were looking at might think they look the same. My geldings were castrated at 2 1/2 & 3. I'll post photos of them tomorrow. They are nice stout horses, and do not look like studs at all. Once again, their necks are not cresty or studly looking horses. They're a little thicker, and not as feminine looking as a gelding cut too young. 

Oh, and something you may not be aware of, muscle tone and mass changes when a horse is gelded. Once cut, their physique changes whether they are a yearling, or a 3 yr old. 

Oh, and once again, like I said when I first brought up going by the signs, I don't have scientific proof, I have lots of experience, my husband has lots of experience, my late father-in-law, who was a premier horseman, and one of the top ten cattle producers in the country had lots of experience. What we know about castration, weaning, etc. by the signs is learned from our experience. You, or anyone else can take it or leave it, I don't care.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

6W Ranch said:


> I
> 
> Oh, and something you may not be aware of, muscle tone and mass changes when a horse is gelded. Once cut, their physique changes whether they are a yearling, or a 3 yr old.


 
Then I guess by your OWN admission, it's completely pointless to keep them intact longer


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

6W Ranch said:


> I was wrong to mistake immature sarcasm for youth, when in fact it was simply nasty rudeness. And anyone who thinks it's normal, or possibly advantageous to geld a 3 month old either lacks experience, common sense, or both.
> 
> I completely disagree with your comparison. My geldings look nothing like our stallions. I suppose someone who didn't know what they were looking at might think they look the same. My geldings were castrated at 2 1/2 & 3. I'll post photos of them tomorrow. They are nice stout horses, and do not look like studs at all. Once again, their necks are not cresty or studly looking horses. They're a little thicker, and not as feminine looking as a gelding cut too young.
> 
> ...


Again, the underlined is completely not true. Current veterinary science tells us that the most advantageous time to geld a horse is before he turns one. This is cold, hard science, not any airy fairy "experience" - anecdotes are not evidence.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Of course their muscle tone changes! So what's the point then of keeping them a stud longer? That muscle tone and mass that you said earlier that you liked disappears after gelding. 

Also, just because someone else has a different point of view and experiences does not make their opinion or experiences invaild. I know many geldings, and geldings that were gelded young that look more "studly" than some stallions out there. Horses that I grew up with being some of them. Guess no one informed them that they weren't allowed/supposed to look more studly than the studs...

I guess I should also go tell the gelding I have out side he shouldn't look like he does because he WAS gelded at 3.5 months and that he should look uber feminine... and tell the vet that was willing and happy to geld that young that he doesn't know what he is doing.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> Again, the underlined is completely not true. Current veterinary science tells us that the most advantageous time to geld a horse is before he turns one. This is cold, hard science, not any airy fairy "experience" - anecdotes are not evidence.


Prove it! LOL I want scientific proof of your statement! Sorry, I couldn't resist imitating the absurdity of demanding proof over and over. Oh, and vets would much rather cut a 3-7 month old than a 2 or 3 yr old. :wink:


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

She has more proof than you.
She has veterinary proof. That's scientific (;


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Of course their muscle tone changes! So what's the point then of keeping them a stud longer? That muscle tone and mass that you said earlier that you liked disappears after gelding.
> 
> Also, just because someone else has a different point of view and experiences does not make their opinion or experiences invaild. I know many geldings, and geldings that were gelded young that look more "studly" than some stallions out there. Horses that I grew up with being some of them. Guess no one informed them that they weren't allowed/supposed to look more studly than the studs...
> 
> I guess I should also go tell the gelding I have out side he shouldn't look like he does because he WAS gelded at 3.5 months and that he should look uber feminine... and tell the vet that was willing and happy to geld that young that he doesn't know what he is doing.


Do not manipulate my statement. I never said it disappears. It changes. It's pointless to debate this issue as most people don't even see what they're looking at if they cannot see the difference. There's proof in that every time I see someone buying, riding a poorly conformed horse. They obviously don't know what they're looking at. 

As a general rule, and I do realize there are exceptions, a colt gelded at 3 mos is not going to mature into the same horse it would have become, had it been gelded later. No proof, just experience and good common horse sense.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

6W Ranch said:


> No proof, just experience and good common horse sense.


Which you apparently are lacking, since you insist that they are bulkier if kept intact longer, yet you even said in your last post that they LOSE the muscle mass once gelded. sheesh


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I took a look at your horses photos. I don't see any bulky 'stallion-esque' horses, they look like average run of the mill horses. No bulk there. You'll have to show me where the 'bulky horses' are


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

6W Ranch said:


> I was wrong to mistake immature sarcasm for youth, when in fact it was simply nasty rudeness. And anyone who thinks it's normal, or possibly advantageous to geld a 3 month old either lacks experience, common sense, or both.


Geez then condemn everything that I have held true and have been taught since I was born. I have experience, I'm 55 and have been around horses most of my life, so I can check that one. Common sense, well I hope so, I usually manage to get my clothes on and the right way around.

I have ALWAYS had colts gelded soon as, I had one done at 3 months last year, he was dropped and ready to go, and if possible I will get them done before weaning. 

I say you are the one lacking common sense for promoting people keeping their colts entire while they are of an age to be firing live rounds. God knows we have enough bad horse keeping practices, and whoopsie babies, without promoting late gelding.


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

GEE GOLLY did this place erupt while I was working! That was a little overwhelming to catch up with....

Now, I have a couple statements about all this hullaballoo that's going on here.


#1. 6W, I read your first links to information regarding gelding (and such) by the signs. Sounds to be something that a lot of people go by, and I'd be curious to compare situations side-by-side and see what the results would be. That being said, I did not find any scientific evidence and therefore... decided to geld today. Which, according to the "signs" calendar, was almost exactly the opposite of the "ideal" time. 
There was very little bleeding in the procedure. Everything went very smoothly, and he's just barely swollen. The vet was quite pleased with the outcome and stated that he didn't think it could have gone any better. We will see how he does in the next few days, but so far I see absolutely nothing that went wrong (or even less than ideally) with this gelding.


#2. I also was curious about whether or not a horse's physical or mental maturity was affected by the age at which they were gelded. So before gelding Rebel, I did A LOT of research. I got in contact with the 3 large animal DVMs that I am friends with, and each one of them said that it USED to be a belief that it was best to wait until a horse was at least 1 or 2, but that experiments and research have been done since that prove there is no difference whatsoever in the end product as far as muscle development or maturity (physical or mental) are concerned. However, according to some of my online research, many vets believe that geldings tend to grow a bit taller than they would if cut later, as the growth plates in their legs tend to close later. Absolutely nothing about muscle mass was even mentioned. 
Also, as a side note, I contacted my 2 friends who are small animal DVMs and they said neutering a dog early in no way affects their mental or emotional maturity, either. 


#3. "Just as I might live closer to the ways of the earth than say a girl who lives in town and boards her one horse at a boarding facility..."

I have to admit that I am EXTREMELY offended at this comment. I grew up out in the country, but didn't own horses until I was older because my family is poor and could not afford to feed animals. However, horses have been my lifelong passion and I have made it my never-ending goal in life to experience and learn as much as I possibly can about equines. Now that I am an adult, my husband and I are also not well-off financially. But we scrimp and pinch our pennies and deny ourselves other things in order for me to own and provide for my best friend in the world, my mare Calypso. This scrimping includes a savings fund in case any animal emergencies occur, so please do not tell me I should not own horses if I can't afford them. I AM affording them, it's just not easy. And yet, it's the most fulfilling thing in my life. This colt needed a better home desperately, and now my husband goes out and bonds with him every day... They are like long lost soulmates. 
We live in town because our horses are our lives, and all of our money goes into making sure they are safe and happy. Therefore, small apartment living and boarding at a nearby barn for us. This situation could soon change, as we're looking into a nicely priced farm home with an acreage set up for horses in a different state (with a lower cost of living). And while I'm thrilled that I might be able to have my horses in my back yard, THE WAY I AM IN TUNE WITH MY ANIMALS WILL NOT CHANGE. I have always made barn life my priority, even if I didn't actually live AT the barn. Please, before you insult the way I/my horses live, consider there are some of us horse-nuts that might not be in the same situation as you, but who love nature and animals with a passion that is unrivaled. 



I have no intention of stepping on any proverbial toes here, but I certainly will not put up with anyone stepping on mine. If my comments offend, I apologize. I mean everything I say, and while I admit that nothing in this post should be taken as the "gospel truth," I also state that I'm not pulling any of this out of thin air and have done as much research on the matter as I could in the one week that I've owned this colt. 

​


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> Geez then condemn everything that I have held true and have been taught since I was born. I have experience, I'm 55 and have been around horses most of my life, so I can check that one. Common sense, well I hope so, I usually manage to get my clothes on and the right way around.
> 
> I have ALWAYS had colts gelded soon as, I had one done at 3 months last year, he was dropped and ready to go, and if possible I will get them done before weaning.
> 
> I say you are the one lacking common sense for promoting people keeping their colts entire while they are of an age to be firing live rounds. God knows we have enough bad horse keeping practices, and whoopsie babies, without promoting late gelding.



You people don't read very well. I explained SEVERAL reasons why we wait. One of which is top bucking stock geldings are not as valuable as top bucking stock stallions. That's number one. Number two, we like our colts to mature physically and mentally before we geld them. We wait for the same reason vets say to wait and not neuter puppies too young. Not rocket science. LOL at the insanity on this forum.


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## BarrelRacingLvr (Feb 26, 2012)

Build comes from the linage of the horse...not keeping them intact longer. Yes they may get that "masculine" muscle...ONLY from the Testostrone. Once you take away that, they are no longer going to keep the bulk of muscle. It is going to go away. We have had studs...ones that we have kept studs and used for breeding then cut later in life (7yrs old for example). He was big and soggy looking, once we cut him that started going away. Now at 14 he looks like a gelding that was gelded as a weanling. 

We have a 2yr old that was cut as a weanling and he is VERY thick...he is going to be a big boy and thick. But his sire was a heavy built horse....so that is where he gets it from. 

For maturing faster? I disagree....once again it has to do with the INDIVIDUAL horse....not the parts they have or do not have. Blue (ex stud) was a late bloomer, his foals were late bloomers. And they were cut as weanlings, and one was cut later. Scrat who was a stud till this spring (5) and he was a late bloomer, and is starting to mature now. JJ who was intact till he was 2 was thinner and not muscly, also very smart and a quick maturer. He started really muscling up as a 5yr old. 

If you want a big soggy horse...breed for it. If you want a horse that matures fast, pick the correct linage. Keeping them intact isn't going to get that...breeding for it correctly is.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

6W Ranch said:


> I completely disagree with your comparison. My geldings look nothing like our stallions. I suppose someone who didn't know what they were looking at might think they look the same.


I have to say your arrogance is amazing. You disagree with my comparison and think I don't know what I am looking at? You have no clue about my experience level, how many years I have been around and worked around breeding facilities and farms, nor have you seen my horses. So you really have no idea what you are even disagreeing with. But anyone who doesn't see things your way must simply be inexperienced, I suppose.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

apachiedragon said:


> I have to say your arrogance is amazing. You disagree with my comparison and think I don't know what I am looking at? You have no clue about my experience level, how many years I have been around and worked around breeding facilities and farms, nor have you seen my horses. So you really have no idea what you are even disagreeing with. But anyone who doesn't see things your way must simply be inexperienced, I suppose.


Simply the facts. If someone can't tell the difference between our geldings, or any gelding for that matter, and our stallions, they don't have a clue. Like I said, "My geldings look nothing like our stallions. I suppose someone who didn't know what they were looking at might think they look the same." 

You know what they say, if the shoe fits, wear it. If you can't tell the difference, then you obviously don't know what you're looking at. Sorry you find the truth so offensive. This is truly comical that you are offended by the simple, truthful statement.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Well this was an interesting read....

I have no say and could care less about when horse colts are gelded, frankly it should be left to the owner to decide. Who gives a flying leap at a rolling doughnut as to when someone gelds if they have the means to hold colts until they are three.

I too was raised on the belief of using the moon phases for gelding horse colts and planning brandings for calves(at that time the bull calves are cut). Do I think that it is a tried and true science? Nope. But it was and still is a method used to determine those dates with quite a few cattle and horse producers. It is an older method and I believe they still print it in the Old Farmers Almanac.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

All I know about castrating by the signs and ancient beliefs is that if you are going to use the Mayan calender, you better schedule it soon.


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## Mochachino (Aug 14, 2012)

Im still in shock....$75 for gelding? Holy .....I paid $875.00 for one gelding, no complications. ****


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Mochachino said:


> Im still in shock....$75 for gelding? Holy .....I paid $875.00 for one gelding, no complications. ****


It must be a lost leader. The drugs and fuel to get out there probably cost that. Or maybe the vet really wants to encourage gelding. Occasionally there will be "gelding clinics" at the University of Georgia where they charge $50.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Celeste said:


> All I know about castrating by the signs and ancient beliefs is that if you are going to use the Mayan calender, you better schedule it soon.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Lwhisperer (Sep 11, 2012)

Mochachino, the vet is a very well known older-ish (65 or so?) man who is the only large animal vet in a small town about 40 minutes from mine. I know he does a lot of calls in my town and plots out his calls so he does very little back-tracking. I bought my mare in his hometown, and he gave me a very thorough vet check for $40. He really knows his stuff and is extremely popular, and thus extremely busy all the time. I don't think he has any issues making money.  With as many calls as he makes in a day, I have a feeling that there's no reason to charge too much. Regardless of the reasons, though, I'm not going to complain. He is very knowledgeable and kind, and loves the animals he treats. And my checkbook appreciates him.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

*MOD NOTE:*

*Ok folks, simmer down please. We have had to remove a large portion of conversation from this thread. *
*The Horse Forum does NOT support members going on 'witch hunts'. If you have a problem with a member or their post, please hit the report button and the mods will deal with it. If you simply don't agree with what someone says, you are more than welcome to disagree with them and give reasoning for doing so - but do not start trying to dig up their personal information to splash all over the forum. *

*Consider this a warning. *


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Farmers' Almanac's Best Days for Farm/Animals
November 30 to January 28
Here is a list of the Best Days for the next 60 days for Farm/Animals tasks as published in the Farmers' Almanac.

For a calendar of Best Days for the entire year, pick up a copy of the Farmers' Almanac at a store near you stores, or order a copy in our online store.



November 30th
Slaughter
December 1st
Go Hunting
December 
2nd
Go Hunting
December 12th
Castrate Farm Animals
December 13th
Castrate Farm Animals
December 14th
Castrate Farm Animals
December 15th
Castrate Farm Animals
December 16th
Castrate Farm Animals
December 17th
Castrate Farm Animals
December 18th
Castrate Farm Animals


Best Days Explained...


According to Farmers' Almanac tradition, when the moon is in the appropriate phase and place in the zodiac, it's widely believed that activities will be more fruitful or lead to improved results. The period between the new and full moon (first and second quarters) is considered as the best time to perform tasks that require strength, fertility and growth. The period between the full and new moon (third and fourth quarters) is best for harvesting, retarding growth, etc. Consideration is also given to the relationship the moon has with the 12 ruling signs of the zodiac.

I also geld and wean by the sign of the moon. It does seem to help. Can't explain why, but it seems a whole lot less stressful for everyone involved. As long as it seems to help and can't hurt, I'm stickin' with it.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I have never heard about "gelding by the phase of the moon" or what ever you want to call it.

The vast majority of geldings in the UK are done before 1yr old. My lad was done before 1 and I frequently get asked if he is a rig or entire (the lack of testicles is evidence enough for the last one). 

6W if your colt hasnt dropped both by 2.5yrs then the other is highly unlikely to drop now. If left inside the abdominal cavity the retained testicle will swell, and cause pain. It has also been prooven that retained testicles have a significantly greater chance of becomeing cancerous. The operation to remove a retained testicle carries more risks the older the horse becomes so it is best to do it early.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

There are a few very small points I can see and kind of agree with.

If you are a breeder and have some nicely bred colts that could have the potential to be a nice stud in its adult life, you do want to wait. However I do not agree with keeping every colt that hits the ground intact until they are 2 years old. A lot of colts that are late to be gelded have nasty attitudes and a gelding with a bad attitude is not an easy horse to sell. Facts are facts.

I don't know about the moon, stars, aliens and space ships aligning right for gelding/weaning/branding etc etc etc.. The little bit I know about it comes from my great uncle and grand parents. But I don't remember much. I can see how it might make a difference as the different moon phases do effect many things such as the tides. And full moons do seem to have an effect on many different things to a degree.

Regarding an ungleded colt bulking up more if you wait. I don't believe it honestly but everyone has their own way for doing things. So to each their own.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

OK, this thread is about to be closed....AGAIN!

I just can't understand why there is such a ****ing match over simple differences of opinion. Get over it, folks. There will always be different approaches to everything people are involved with. If you cannot state your own beliefs in a civil manner, stay away. 

As long as there is no dangerous advice being given, it is just not that important to keep punching it out.

Posters have been warned here, and some seem to think we are not serious. People will continue to post rudely at their own risk.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I don't necessarily wait to geld, but I'm not in a great big hurry either, unless the colt is a snot or I can tell from birth that he's not good enough to be a stallion. I do wait until the first winter, at least, so that I'm not fighting flies on top of sore male parts. 

I have gelded very late, 5 & 7 years, twice and had no issues. Both were excellent, quiet boys as stallions, they were both excellent, quiet boys as geldings. If I'm not using them as stallions, for any reason, I go ahead and cut. They can go out on pasture with the whole herd then and it keeps them very happy. I am a firm believer that a great stallion will make a phenomenal gelding and keep very few horses intact.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I don't necessarily wait to geld, but I'm not in a great big hurry either, unless the colt is a snot or I can tell from birth that he's not good enough to be a stallion. I do wait until the first winter, at least, so that I'm not fighting flies on top of sore male parts.
> 
> I have gelded very late, 5 & 7 years, twice and had no issues. Both were excellent, quiet boys as stallions, they were both excellent, quiet boys as geldings. If I'm not using them as stallions, for any reason, I go ahead and cut. They can go out on pasture with the whole herd then and it keeps them very happy. I am a firm believer that a great stallion will make a phenomenal gelding and keep very few horses intact.


You worded what I was trying to say in a much more clear fashion. Well said


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I had one colt that I gelded at three. I was hopeful that he would make a good stallion, but he just didn't pan out to be what I was looking for. If I know that they will be a gelding, I try to get it done by six months of age. Then I don't have to put up with that awful young stud stage. I do agree with waiting until it is cold enough for the flies to be gone.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Part of that low cost of the operation that the OP benefited from may be due to their location, I don't know. OP, are you out in the boondocks like I am? If so, that could explain a lot. When I got my youngest colt gelded (and his hernia surgery all at once), it only cost around $175. Running cost for an average gelding plus all the shots afterward like tetanus and penn is about $95 here.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I had my colt gelded at 5 months because I wanted him as a trail horse, he is a grade, and was born with a wonky leg. No reason to keep him a stud at all. He is 15.3, 1100 lbs and has a lovely arched neck now at age 2.5. I am not convinced he would be any more handsome if he were still a stud. 

His daddy was cut as an aged stallion and he lost the chubby cheeks that studs have almost immediately. I don't know about the rest of the you, but I don't like the chubby cheek look anyway. I personally think geldings are lovely!


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Chiilaa said:


> Again, the underlined is completely not true. Current veterinary science tells us that the most advantageous time to geld a horse is before he turns one. This is cold, hard science, not any airy fairy "experience" - anecdotes are not evidence.


Could you share some links to this current vet science and the 'right' time to geld being before 1? I always figured that so long as the parts were there and the bugs weren't bad it just depended on when it was convenient for the owner (in light of stud care requirements, money, vet fees being higher for older horses, etc). I hadn't heard any science before but want to learn.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Picture of Stewie the Moose, taken on Sept 11th this year, when he was 17 months old










Seems to be making enough frame, not bad for someone who was gelded at just under 4 months.


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## Trinity3205 (Dec 21, 2010)

I will say, Im SOME horse lines, a colt might look more feminine if he is gelding early. I have also seen this happen. 

Think about a young male human or female human vs someone who is completely androgynous for example. They start developing adult characteristics appropriate to their gender at what...between 9 and 10 for some of them? If you somehow stopped that process at 12, they would still look more male or female than someone who never started the process. Small things would be changed. Common sense IMO. 

So yes, I can believe that some horses might look a tad "more male" if left intact even partially though horse adolescence. Some horses dont seem to have very male or female look to them and so I dont think anyone would notice in those cases if they were castrated early, but some, particularly QHs, do.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

What you mention above is true. Pat from Saturday Night Live was not small framed, but was "soft". It's clearly a personal preference, and there are strong opinions for and against. While some people may find Pat from Saturday Night Live attractive, I don't. 

Choirboys in Naples Italy were castrated for the opera & the Papal. If castrated before puberty, the boy remained boyish, soft with no adult muscle, voice stayed high, and they were smooth skinned. 

In the 1800-early 1900's, a Russian cult used to castrate boys before puberty. The boys developed a distinctive appearance and perhaps a distinctive personality. Because they never completed normal puberty and missed the developmental changes brought about by the adolescent phase of testosterone production, men castrated as children remained beardless with fresh, clear complexions and had patterns of fat deposition characteristic of women. The epiphysial plates, that is the growth plates, in their long bones did not close at puberty, resulting in an individual with unusually long arms and legs and a tall, though frail stature. The bones of the lower face did not mature, resulting in a triangular face with a small chin.

Same is true in dogs. I assume the breeders listed below suggest buyers of their dogs wait, as they don't want undesirable lack of development traits to negatively reflect back on their breeding program. Wisteria Goldens | Wisteria Goldens on Spay/Neutering | WisteriaGoldens.com "Families often ask when they should spay or neuter their dog. This issue has been debated among the experts for awhile. While I have always offered my opinion, I also advise families to discuss the pros and cons with their vet in order to make the best decision for them. From my research and experience in raising our English Cream Goldens, it became noticeable that dogs spayed or neutered at a young age, were not as well developed and proportioned dogs as ones which were left intact until full grown. 

While I am not a vet, it seemed reasonable to me that removing organs which produce vital hormones before a dog was fully developed would cause developmental issues. I compare it to teenage girls and boys going through the puberty. Teenage years mean hormones are released which turn girls into young ladies with curves and boys into young men with muscles. Most obvious to us are male dogs neutered at a young age and how they lack muscle build and are “leggy” in appearance.

We personally prefer the well-developed muscle and build of a fully developed Golden Retriever and have advised families to wait until the females goes through her first cycle and a male be at least a year old. While there are inconveniences associated with this decision, such as keeping a female from becoming pregnant, we personally do not mind the inconveniences in order to achieve full development of dogs. We would make this choice even if we were raising “pet only” dogs.

I discovered an article that was written by Laura J. Sanborn, M.S. “Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs.” It is important for all pet owners to read this article, and take it to their vet in order to make a truly informed decision about spaying/neutering early. While there are inconveniences and risks with spay/neuter at a later age, there are also long-term health consequences for doing it at a young age.

A few health risks associated with spay/neuter dogs at a young age are:

Osteosarcoma (bone cancer)
Cardiac Hemangiosarcoma
Hypothyroidism
Orthopedic disorders
Adverse reaction to vaccinations"

To each his own, though, clearly some people find pre-pubescent characteristics appealing.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Horses are not dogs and using what is given advice for them on horses isn't something that should be done... You need to look at the actually data regarding horses to decide for horses... not use information on dogs.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

An interesting discussion, but no, I'll stick by what I believe to be true, as this have produced good results for us. Like I said, to each his own. And yes, I'm aware dogs and humans are different than horses.

As for the proof and hard cold facts, regarding this, it reminds me how one day "scientists" have cold hard facts that coffee is bad for you. Then the next day "scientists" have are cold hard facts that coffee is good for you. 

One can look at what's presented and decide what kind of results are desired. It's like voting for socialism/communism, or free enterprise/capitalism, the choice is yours.


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

I've looked at what you've posted and see NOTHING scientific. And No, you cannot use information from dog breeders in regards to making gelding choices in horses. They're not the same animals....
If you chose to geld later, that's your own choice, but please do us all a favor and stop claiming that the links you've posted are scientific and proven. They're simply not


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

My golden retrievers perfectly disprove your theory 6W. The one of mine that was castrated young is quite butch and well filled. The one that is still entire looks lie a 30kg puppy and could quite easily be mistaken for a female!

My Connie gelding who was castrated before 8 months looked very butch. My arab gelding who was cut at 6 yrs old was very very pretty and feminine.
My current gelding (splodgey pony) is far more masculine than his entire full brother and has bulked out far better.

Get some hard Vet science and prove your theory dont just rely on anecdotes.
A statistical study of n=1 is statisticly useless and of no relvance.


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## Smokum (May 4, 2012)

Well cold tends to shrivel things as we all know...

And with castration the colt needs to drain properly and with very cold temperatures the blood can coagulate and or block and stop the drainage if the temperature drops to low at night. a few hours is long enough for it to close completely. 
But cool weather to cold is good for them. I just wouldnt do it with a cold front moving in for below temperatures. Otherwise I would rather geld in the colder months, just have a heat lamb on hand incase.

If the water buckets are froze in the morning your colts drain hole is most likely closed.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Sharpie said:


> Could you share some links to this current vet science and the 'right' time to geld being before 1? I always figured that so long as the parts were there and the bugs weren't bad it just depended on when it was convenient for the owner (in light of stud care requirements, money, vet fees being higher for older horses, etc). I hadn't heard any science before but want to learn.



http://www.equestrianarts.org/Articles-Horse Health/Basic Health Care/Castration.pdf

I have a lot of trouble finding scholarly articles that have been peer reviewed that I can share - I am a current university student, so can access a lot of journals, but only by logging in via my school's login. Basically, the presence of testosterone in a young stallion's body causes the growth plates to fuse earlier, causing growth to be stopped earlier than a gelding.


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## 6W Ranch (Aug 23, 2012)

Chiilaa, thanks for posting the link! It confirms why we wait. While I don't have access to classified, scholarly scientific data such as you've presented, what you've posted corresponds with link I posted on dogs and the poor Russian eunuchs. 

Again, it's a matter of personal preference. We have solid evidence for waiting. I didn't have to research to find this out though, it's based on experience of owning both types of horses. 

Here's is some more text taken from Chiilaa's scholarly scientific data she posted above: 

*When To Castrate?*_
Horses can be castrated at any age. I have castrated foals at one day of age and stallions into their 20s. Although both of these extreme situations were emergencies where the horses had developed scrotal hernias (the small intestine had herniated or protruded into the scrotal sac), all recovered well. Most veterinarians will agree that castrating horses at a young age (less than one year old) is ideal.

Male horses at that age have smaller testicles that are easier to remove and have less of a chance of severe bleeding post-operatively. Many people castrate horses when they become a management problem--around two to three years of age. This could be due to a desire for the horses to develop a more masculine appearance (thicker neck, heavier build).

If a horse is gelded earlier in life, then it will grow taller--closing of the growth plates in the legs is delayed with early castration. The ideal time to castrate a horse is variable and will depend on several factors, including the management of your farm, the climate, training schedules, and so on. 

For example, you might want to wait to castrate your yearling colt until he is two years old. However, if the barn where you board your horse only has one paddock, turning your intact colt out with other horses invariably results in a fight when the colt begins mounting and herding the other horses. To save the peace (and injuries to your colt), it might be best to castrate him earlier. 

Another example could be that you want to castrate your 2-year-old colt in January so that he is acting like a gelding by the first show in March. However, you live in central New York, where heavy snow and extremely cold temperatures are the norm in January. It might be best to wait for warmer
weather so that regular exercise following castration won't be impeded. Or, for a little more money, you can have him castrated at a clinic where the incisions are closed and there is no need to worry about the castration sites becoming swollen or infected. What's the difference between field and clinic
castration?
_
And what do you know?! Scientific dog spay/neuter studies back up, and are consistent with the Chiilaa's scientific proof about growth plates in legs. 

http://www.alabamacaninecoalition.org/earlyspayconsiderations.pdf


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Smokum said:


> Well cold tends to shrivel things as we all know...
> ........................................................
> But cool weather to cold is good for them. I just wouldnt do it with a cold front moving in for below temperatures. Otherwise I would rather geld in the colder months, just have a heat lamb on hand incase.


This post cheered me up greatly:lol:


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