# my daughters barrel horse attacked



## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I am so upset, I live in Wyoming, my daughter lives in Nevada and she is on the phone to me. Seems the neighbors dogs, which have gotten out numerous times and chased her horses have attacked her barrel horse. The vet is on the way out, but since nobody saw the attack, although the neighbor kids heard it, sounds as if the sheriff can't do anything.
I think the mare will have to be put down, she is literally shredded and it sounds as if her back fetlock/leg might be broken. I am so upset for her, nobody home to help her since hubby works at night 40 miles away. I am six hours away so can't help.
This mare has only one eye, I am thinking the dogs caught her by surprise and got her down and she could not get up.
My daughter was gone this afternoon, and only just got home to find her horse. Please say prayers that she will not have to be put down.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Prayers are sent. Poor girl. I know an eye for an eye isn't very friendly but if my horse had to be put down, those dogs would be on their way to jesus to.


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## mistygirl (May 13, 2010)

aww thats really sad. i hope shes ok.


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## hillarymorganstovall (Mar 27, 2010)

Gosh... I am so sorry!! I really hope the best for yall!!! I can't imagine being in that situation!! I would hate to have the dogs put to sleep because it really is the owners fault, although I understand the anger and would probably change my mind put in that situation. 

If the horse makes it, she could try to sue for damages and have them put up a fence or something... She may even be able to if the horse doesn't make it (God forbid ) . Not for the money, but to prevent something like this happening to another horse or something in the future. 

The dog owners really should have been more responsible!! Especially if they know the dog's had been chasing the horse. 

God bless yall and I really hope she pulls through :-(


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I am sorry to hear about your daughters horse. I hope it makes a recovery. Either way, your daughters husband needs to go and get rid of the dogs. They can wait till the dogs come back on their property...but those dogs would definitely die.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Where in Nevada is she? I have a friend near Elko that could help her.


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## AlmostThere (Oct 31, 2009)

sandy2u1 said:


> I am sorry to hear about your daughters horse. I hope it makes a recovery. Either way, your daughters husband needs to go and get rid of the dogs. They can wait till the dogs come back on their property...but those dogs would definitely die.


I'm with Sandy on this one. Get a rifle or shotgun handy and wait till those nasty ******s trespass again. Now they've tasted horse meat they'll come back and none of her other horses are safe :evil:.

Sending good thoughts for your daughter and her horse, and not so good thoughts at those rotten dogs.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

If it were me, those would be some dead dogs if they ever came back. If the owners can't take proper care of them (ie, knowing where their animals are!) then they should not have them. Especially if they have deprived her of her own pets.


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## LoveStory10 (Oct 31, 2009)

I am so sorry! But I agree with everyone else, I believe your daughter is well within her rights to kill those dogs, because they may go from attacking horses, to attacking her! Not that it will happen, but there's a distinct possibility...


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

How tragic, I am so very sorry. 

Tell her to be on the watch with a gun - As someone mentioned, now they have tasted blood, they won't be stopped except for with a bullet. She would be well within her rights to shoot them on her property attacking livestock I assume, she would be here.

I would be a wreck if that happened to me. Sending prayers she pulls through.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

First, prayers and hugs for you, your daughter, her husband and the horse.

Second, I know it's not the dogs' fault that their owners are irresponsible, but dogs that run in packs are DANGEROUS. If they brought down a horse, they need to go. If your daughter or son-in-law feel uncomfortable doing it, they should find someone who can. It would definitely be best if the dogs were on your daughter's property, though, for legal reasons.

In Kansas, it's illegal to kill a mountain lion (especially since they don't officially exist here, but that's a whole other thing). My horses were getting attacked, and a neighbors sheep were being killed. The game warden came out and looked at some sheep caracasses and told the owner that if they saw the mountain lion on their property, they could kill it. The only stipulation was that they had to call the warden and not move the mountain lion after it was dead.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

SO SORRY-how awful! Hope the horse is ok, and those dogs would be HISTORY! I am an animal lover, but in this case-the dogs would have to be gone. End of story. I might say something to the neighbors first, to let them know that I WOULD shoot their dogs if they come back. If I could speak coherently, that is.......GRRRRRRR.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

*update on the mare*

My daughter called off and on during the vet visit and while the sheriff was there. She was told by the sheriff that she could not shoot the dogs in a residential neighborhood. The owners of the dogs were standing there, saying " I am so sorry, but I bet a mountain lion got her" Of course this was during the day in a neighborhood. Then the young man said" they are my inlaws dogs and she let them out" It won't happen again, blah blah blah. They know that their dogs did it, as a matter of fact, one of them will jump the fence and chase my granddaughter and her dog down the road. My daughter told them in front of the sheriff, keep your f***ing dogs at home. They said" oh we will keep them chained".. So, sounds like that will be a battle.
Anyway, the vet worked on the mare until midnight, sewed up what he could on the front leg, then put a bandage on it. The back leg at the fetlock is very very swollen, my daughter if afraid it is broken. I talked to the vet on the phone and he said she does put a slight bit of weight on it, it bends the correct way, but is so swollen. There are no cuts on the fetlock, some up higher on the hock. She will put the tip of the hoof down, and did kick the vet when he tried to treat the cuts. She will rest it on the top of the hoof/fetlock. I am hoping it is just sprained or twisted, but that was all they could do last night
I told my daughter to see what was happening with her in the morning, see if she wants to eat, move, etc. I told her she will be swollen and sore, but she should show some attempt at moving with that leg. A friend who has barrel horses will come by this morning(she worked the graveyard shift last night) and they will look her over. The husband will be home this morning also.
I told her the cuts and tears will heal, the leg will be the issue. If she is attempting to walk on it this morning and eating, etc then I would give her some time. If she is down or refuses to put weight on the leg, etc then she knows it is only fair to put her down. Its hard to judge in the dark, the mare was eating last night, etc.
Will update when I can today, I am heading to dog shows, but will bring my laptop with me.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I wouldn't decide after 1 day. Give her some time. Animals heal and come through some pretty significant injuries. Can't an xray be done to see if it really is broken and not just sore?


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Oh, I didn't mean to say she would make the decisions today, I just told her to wait and think on a calm mind in the morning, not make quick decisions last night while everything was going on. Thats what I told her, horses make some big recoveries, it will just take time.
As far as an exray, right now putting the horse into a trailer and driving some 30 miles one way to the vet is probably not the best for Left eye.(the mare). Told her to just watch her, treat her with her meds and give her some time to recover. I am hoping the fetlock is just terribly sore, not broken.


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## horseluver250 (Oct 28, 2009)

There isn't a vet in the area with a portable x-ray machine?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Wyoming, I am horrified and saddened to read this. Give your daughter my deepest condolences, and I'll be praying that Left Eye makes a full recovery.

Are there no leash laws where she lives? What about livestock protection?

Here in VA, any dog that chases/attacks livestock may legally be shot by the livestock owner, or they can get a court order to have the dogs put down. Generally, people just SSS and don't bother with the courts.

Those dogs are _dangerous_. They're not just someone's pets who got out and decided to go for a run. They attacked and grievously injured another animal, and that's inexcusable. 

What happens if the next time they get out, they injure or kill a child? Saying, "Sorry, they got away from us, and we'll keep them chained up now." won't cut it if that happens.

People that own vicious animals should do the right thing and have them put down. There's no excuse to keep an animal like that alive. They're nothing but ticking time bombs, waiting for another chance to go off.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Horseluver 250: They just moved to the area, luckily she could find someone to come out last night. 
Speedracer: oh yea, I know all about vicious dogs. We have shot them here chasing the horses. The problem with where she lives, it is a residential neighborhood and discharging a firearm there will put her in jail... Stupid huh?
The dogs owners are just stupid, they keep them chained when they feel like it, they let them loose to run, they jump the fences, etc. When asked about it, oh, its my mother in laws dogs, she lets them loose, or they broke the chain, blah blah blah. In other words, they feel no responsibility when the dogs get loose. The first week my daughter was there, the dogs chased my granddaughter down the road, when my daughter started chasing the dog, the owners came out and said"oh he is just dog aggressive". They "rescue" the mean type dogs and keep them in a small yard.... She chased the dogs out of the horses yesterday morning with a pellet gun, the owners were in the yard themselves, but did not call the dogs back until she threatened them with the pellet gun. My daughter did not want to make problems since they just moved in, now she is feeling guilty because Left Eye is hurt and she knows she should have called the cops in the beginning. Unfortunately hindsite hits again.
These folks have even told another neighbor that when they move soon, they are just going to leave the dogs behind since they are too much trouble. 
My daughter will be calling the cops again. The sheriff deputy last night acted put out that he had to come out on a call for a horse, so he was not alot of help and probably won't be help the next time
I just feel so helpless so far away.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I agree 100% with SR. Soo sorry this happened to you. My thoughts are with you and Left Eye
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Dang, that 'discharging a firearm in a residential area' law is good for people, but not so good when there are vicious animals that need to be shot. 

So they're just going to move and leave the dogs there to fend for themselves, eh? Wow, such responsible animal owners. NOT! :evil:

The problem will resolve itself it that happens, because either the AC will come and get them, or they'll be killed by cars or poisoned by angry livestock owners. Antifreeze is cheap, animals find it to be tasty, and it's deadly.

Not saying I condone the use of it, but it's been utilized before when someone is unable to trap or shoot the offending beasts.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> The problem with where she lives, it is a residential neighborhood and discharging a firearm there will put her in jail... Stupid huh?


In that case, take them to court. If she can establish a pattern of dangerous behavior, she might be able to get something done. 

I really hope Left Eye does well.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

That is terrible. I'm glad they didn't have to put her down just yet. I'm hoping for the best. As for the dogs, SR is correct, in VA we can shoot them if we are protecting our livestock. A friend of mine learned that very quickly when her dogs kept killing the neighbors chickens... her thought was... they are just chickens, his thought was to shoot the dogs. He was not charged, she however WAS charged becuase there is a leash law in VA and her dogs were not hounds. (hounds can run loose certain times of the year).

I am really sorry for your daughter and her horse. The neighbors are poopbutts and obviously have no respect for other people. I am angered for you.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Just talked to my daughter, Left Eye whinned and walked, although slowly, up to her this morning. She has been eating, drinking and moving around a bit. That gives me hope that the leg is sprained and bruised but not broken.
She will be moving both horses to a new friends house down the road to stay there for a few days in a small turnout and stall. Easier to keep her quiet and keep the wounds clean. And away from the dogs.
She walked all over the property this morning, no fence down or anything that can account for the injuries(the cop suggested she got into a fence instead of the dogs, what a jerk) and both dogs are chained up this morning, go figure.The owners know they are guilty, just won't admit. My son in law will be paying them a visit this morning when he gets home. He will be furious when he finds out about Left Eye. He works in a mine and has no way of talking to my daughter until he gets onto the bus for the drive home. He will be ready to kill someone.
Anyway, she is alert, eating and moving, all bodily functions are working, just lame on the back leg. But, that to me is a good sign its not hopefully a break. 

Keep your fingers crossed. The kids just moved there last month after my son in law being laid off for six months. This is an expense they did not need, they have been trying to catch up on bills that were just barely kept going during the lay off. I am sending a good will package of bandage material, medicine for the 
wounds etc. If anyone has anything laying around and you want to make a care package, please let me know.
I will keep everyone updated, send lots of prayers for both my daughter and Left Eye. This was the horse she finally felt safe with and was just getting back into barrel racing after a few years(she went off a barrel horse and broke her pelvis in 4 places while in high school) I am just devasted for her. Plus, the first time mom is not right there to lend support and help.
thanks


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I know how she feels. When my horse severed her tendons husband was out of town. Luckily my parents were there and also able to help with the bills ($6000). I can imagine how she feels being short on cash and without husband OR parents to lend emotional support. But it sounds like she's strong. Sounds like Left Eye is strong too... good combination.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

It's good that she's moving them. I hope her recovery goes well.

What kind of stuff does she need?

Just had a thought. The vet should be able to tell law enforcement that the horse was attacked by animals -- at the very least. My vet knew what attacked my horses by looking at wound patterns and locations.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

she needs bandage materiels, stuff for the wounds to spray on, or if anyone wants to donate some money, any amount, that would be great. You can pm me if you want. 
I am sending a package of goodies today, she needs to bandage change everyday.They are so low on finances, this is really hard for them and us, we can only do what we can also.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

If it were me, I wouldn't say anything else about killing the dogs to anyone and when the little demons come back, well, they would become missing dogs. "Oh, no. I have no idea where your dogs are. Why? Were thay loose or something? Sounds dangerous....." Bleh, fingers crossed for your daughter and the horse!


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

Have you reported the dogs being lose to animal control? Everytime those dogs are lose they need to be called. Dangerous dogs need to be contained properly. No matter what breed of dog it is.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

oh yea, she has called. They come out and warn the owners, but by then they are back in the yard and chained up.
The Sheriff did give them a ticket last night for loose dogs.... as if they will mean much to them.


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## ShutUpJoe (Nov 10, 2009)

People like that are what give certain breeds bad names. I say, for the better of the community, those dogs need to disappear.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

What breeds are they? Sorry if I just missed it.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

virginia actually has a dangerous dog registry. Had those dogs been in this state, they'd have been added... IF she hadn't shot them already!


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

So you mean to tell me that you can't shoot these very mean sounding dogs without going to jail?

Let me just put a "what if" instance in here. What if there was a group of little kids in playing in the neighborhood and these stupid dogs did to the kids what they did to the horse? No doubt if I was a mother I would shoot the hell out of them little beasts and then challenge the court. 

Another question, is a bow considered a firearm? If not, someone could easily kill them with a couple of arrows than shooting them.

Anywho, wish y'all the best of luck .


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm very sorry to hear about your daughter's horse! I hope she'll heal all fine (and it does sound like it's not broken). She'll be in my prayers!

I'd be furious if something like that would happen with me. Yes, I agree, she shouldn't may be even raise the question about the dogs but just shoot them if they show up. BTW, if the dog attacks you/your kid and you shoot as a self defense, that should be acceptable I'd think?? 

I don't have much experience with it myself, but may be running the electric fence on bottom of wooden fence would stop dogs? I know some people around my area do it to prevent the property from little animals.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

Tennessee said:


> So you mean to tell me that you can't shoot these very mean sounding dogs without going to jail?
> 
> Let me just put a "what if" instance in here. What if there was a group of little kids in playing in the neighborhood and these stupid dogs did to the kids what they did to the horse? No doubt if I was a mother I would shoot the hell out of them little beasts and then challenge the court.
> 
> ...


I don't know the law where she lives, but in my town (and I'm within city limits), any projectile is illegal. Maybe if Wyoming's daughter got the dogs on film on her property, animal control could do more. And maybe getting the other neighbors involved would help.

Do you have any updates for us? I would really like to follow this mare's progress.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Oh my god, that's awful! My hopes to him and your daughter.

I had a horse get attacked by a cougar once. We came out to the pasture one day and his flanks were shredded and all the cougars claws were embedded into his butt. I think he took off and nailed that cat in the face with both guns because that was one unhappy cat, losing all of his claws. The victim, however, seemed quite pelased with himself


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## AlmostThere (Oct 31, 2009)

I agree with the "gone missing" suggestions. If the sheriff is such an anti-gun, anti-property rights, anti-freedom so and so, then your daughter needs to get a little sneaky. Keep her dogs in or at that friend's house and spread "presents" around her property for the neighbor's dogs.

Don't breathe a word about it, don't threaten the neighbor's dogs to anyone, and dispose of the carcasses when the time comes.

If protecting her horses is not a big enough motivator, then she should do it to protect her daughter. They already chased her once for crying out loud, what if the next time they catch her.


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## centrestableswendy (Dec 21, 2008)

As far as the dogs, next time they come on her property, they should leash them with rope or something, take them for a long car ride out to a non residential wooded area, and put them down. Some people just shouldn't own animals. Best of luck to your daughter and Left Eye.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I agree that she should be sneaky about it. Spread bait. Put the horses up, put on the ol' camo jacket and crouch down with your rifle to wait. Keep the phone there. When the dogs get on your property, call the sherriff or whatever and have them come out. Just keep the gun loaded and wait. I just hate the idea of someone shooting those things but I love the horses more, and if those dogs are aggressive they need to be handled properly. Very rarely can a truly aggressive dog be rehabilitated, but I would let Animal Control decide that. I pity the poor dog that goe sinto my pasture. I've had my horses attack and kill dogs before thatdared venture into their pasture.

Just keep a watch with your gun and plan carefully. That needs to stop.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Hold on the dogs took down A HORSE and are aloud roam the streets if they can take down a horse imagine if they could take down a child??

Personally where im from if an animal is trespassing and worrying your stock then you have the right to kill it.

However i would maybe take those dogs and bring them to the pound as "abandoned" dogs chances are they wont be micro chipped.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

I personally would not shoot these dogs unless I absolutely had to, it just doesn't seem right for me to end a dog's life because the owners are complete idiots. I would use a BB gun, and maybe turn the dogs into the AC. However, remember that these are just a few dogs. Other dogs can still come along and do the same thing, by killing these dogs you are only providing immediate protection. Permanent protection comes in the form of dog-proof fencing. It is very hard to be there 24/7 with a rifle to protect a horse, but a proper fence can do that permanently.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am so sorry about poor Left Eye. That is absolutely horrible. I am glad that it she seems to be doing better and I hope there is no permanent lameness. It just makes me absolutely sick anytime I read anything about this. Around here, we are allowed to shoot the offending animal even in residential areas but different states have different laws. Since shooting them is out of the question, what SR mentioned might be a good plan. Put a few small bowls of antifreeze around the border of your property and if they take a drink of it, they will die and no-one will be the wiser.



Speed Racer said:


> Antifreeze is cheap, animals find it to be tasty, and it's deadly.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

roro said:


> I personally would not shoot these dogs unless I absolutely had to, it just doesn't seem right for me to end a dog's life because the owners are complete idiots. I would use a BB gun, and maybe turn the dogs into the AC. However, remember that these are just a few dogs. Other dogs can still come along and do the same thing, by killing these dogs you are only providing immediate protection. Permanent protection comes in the form of dog-proof fencing. It is very hard to be there 24/7 with a rifle to protect a horse, but a proper fence can do that permanently.


People should not have to spend thousands of dollars making a fence "dog proof". Regardless if it was the dogs fault or not, if they are vicious enough to be attacking and taking down a 1200 pound animal with intent to kill, they need to be put to sleep. Yes it's horrible and yes it sucks, but that is life. Next time it's going to be a human.

And no, it won't just be another dog another problem because MOST people have enough brains to keep their animals trained and watched. We are surrounded by dogs where I live, they breed Great Danes down the road, they have Rotties next door, they have Huskies and Labs that actually roam on the other side - we have never had a SINGLE instance of not only attacks, but not even chasing.

Any dog that has enough guts and bloodlust to attack an animal that big needs to be shot - NOW. I don't care one wit about why it happened, the animal is a volatile threat to everyone around it. 99% of people have TONS of wolves in the wild - we certainly don't hear about horses being taken down by wolves on a regular basis! It takes a very particular type of dog to go after a horse - and you're unlikely to see his kind "replaced" by more dangerous vicious dogs because they ARE fairly rare.


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## hillarymorganstovall (Mar 27, 2010)

roro said:


> I personally would not shoot these dogs unless I absolutely had to, it just doesn't seem right for me to end a dog's life because the owners are complete idiots. I would use a BB gun, and maybe turn the dogs into the AC. However, remember that these are just a few dogs. Other dogs can still come along and do the same thing, by killing these dogs you are only providing immediate protection. Permanent protection comes in the form of dog-proof fencing. It is very hard to be there 24/7 with a rifle to protect a horse, but a proper fence can do that permanently.


I agree. It makes me so sad that this happened, but the owners should be punished not the dogs. I do agree that if the owners won't do anything the dog should be taken from them, but I hate to hear all of the people being so blunt and cruel. I know, I know, it's life, their vicious, blah blah, but animals are what people make them or allow them to be. The owners are the vicious ones. I don't agree that just because a dog attacks an animal, it will attack a human next. It could happen, but it may not happen. 

Dogs are predators and horses are prey you can't kill an animal for acting natural. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS OK FOR THEM TO BE ALLOWED TO DO THIS, if this happened to my girl I would be equally upset and angry. The animals should be taught or restrained. Honestly, if a neighbor ever shot my dog I would make their life hell... But I would NEVER let my dogs run loose in the first place. 

I agree about the fencing. I think that dog proof fencing is the best way to go. People should _not_ have to pay the extra expense, but that's life, if it's what's best for your horse you have to do it. You can't not do it just because you think it's the neighbors job to restrain the dogs (which it is). It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I know, everybody hates me now, but as important as that horse's life is, the dogs' lives are equal. 

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family and the horse. I hate this happened, and I hope she makes a full recovery.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Here is an update. Left Eye has been putting weight on the bad hind leg, so it seems to be a very severe sprain, strain, etc. They have moved both horses down the road to a really nice lady who is letting them keep them there for awhile. My daughter is feeling a bit more optimistic this evening, her hubby was home helping today(he is now back at work) and Left Eye is eating, walking, with a limp, but at least she is putting weight on all four legs now. She is of course on antibiotics, bute, lots of tlc, cleaning the bandaged wound and I suggested she feed her senior feed along with the hay to keep up her strength. 
As for the dogs, my daughter and withthe help of friends, was able to talk to the main animal control office, the sheriff, and a few others. She now has permission to shoot the dogs should they show up on her property again( the black german shepherd jumps out of the 6 foot fence and attacks dogs, two of the others that attacked Left Eye were chow/pit bull crosses)They have stayed chained today, but i am sure they let them loose at night. So, the AC officer said to shoot them on site. The sheriff has given them tickets for too many dogs, dogs at large and chasing livestock, but still can't get them for the attack because nobody 'saw" them chewing on Left Eye. Even the man who owns them kept saying "I am so sorry, I am so sorry it happened", but I am sure it was a mountain lion and not my dogs. Yeah, right. They now also have it on report that the german shepherd bit my granddaughter about two weeks ago when it jumped the fence while she was walking her golden retriever puppy on a leash. It was not a bad bite, and when my daughter told the a/c officer, she said "I wished you had called immediately" but I understand how you didn't want to make waves in a new neighborhood.
The people with the dogs are in the process of moving, and my daughter also contacted the owner of the rental house, told him what was going on, how many dogs, how vicious they are. He has just put a bunch of cattle/calves on the hill and was a bit upset. My daughter said he was over there this evening. 
I don't suspect they will pay the bill,they seem to feel they should not have to, and without a photo of the dogs attacking Left Eye, not much can be done. Hopefully they will get out of there and then the horses can come home.
I will have some photos to post, hopefully by morning.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

I'm glad to hear that she seems well. You and your family is in our thoughts and prayers.


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## hillarymorganstovall (Mar 27, 2010)

I am glad the neighbors are moving!! I'm glad the horse is looking better!!!! I hope she pulls through!!


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Nobody hates you, but you have to understand livestock, horses, cows, pigs have to be protected by humans. Sure, dog proof fence, keeping them in the yard, training them, that is all fine and dandy, but when the owners do not care about the dogs hurting other animals(they have killed the neighbors 4-H pigs, sheep) given tickets, etc and they still don't care, when it gets to the point of taking down a horse, then the dogs are dangerous.
Yes, it is sad to have to shoot someones dogs, but who can keep paying money for attacks on their animals when the owners do not care. I have had to shoot dogs for chasing my horse through a barb wire fence. We shot the dogs and left they laying by the road while the vet was busy stitiching up the horse. Nobody stopped by and owned up to owning the dogs. Now I make sure who owns the dogs, will give them one warning and then they get shot. In Wyoming, if dogs kill livestock, the owner pays three times the amount of the animal. Once folks are warned, the majority don't let their dogs run loose, but it still happens alot. I love dogs, I train dogs, I show dogs, but if my horses are injured by roaming dogs, then I am sorry, if it makes me cruel, but the dog is gonna die.I understand what you are saying, but the kind of owners we are talking about will not care about fences, etc. All the talking in the world won't stop them from letting the dogs roam. The pounds and rescues are full and don't want livestock killers, and you can warn and owner and the dogs are out the next night. Yes, its sad to kill dogs because they chase,kill and attack livestock, yes its not the dogs fault, but if the owners won't take responsibility, the dogs will keep doing damage because they don't have anyone who will train them not to.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> People should not have to spend thousands of dollars making a fence "dog proof". Regardless if it was the dogs fault or not, if they are vicious enough to be attacking and taking down a 1200 pound animal with intent to kill, they need to be put to sleep. Yes it's horrible and yes it sucks, but that is life. Next time it's going to be a human.
> 
> And no, it won't just be another dog another problem because MOST people have enough brains to keep their animals trained and watched. We are surrounded by dogs where I live, they breed Great Danes down the road, they have Rotties next door, they have Huskies and Labs that actually roam on the other side - we have never had a SINGLE instance of not only attacks, but not even chasing.
> 
> Any dog that has enough guts and bloodlust to attack an animal that big needs to be shot - NOW. I don't care one wit about why it happened, the animal is a volatile threat to everyone around it. 99% of people have TONS of wolves in the wild - we certainly don't hear about horses being taken down by wolves on a regular basis! It takes a very particular type of dog to go after a horse - and you're unlikely to see his kind "replaced" by more dangerous vicious dogs because they ARE fairly rare.


They don't have to. My point is, it is a near sure fire way to prevent it unless you have a guard on duty 24/7 with a gun that can scan the whole property. Is another dog attack unlikely? Certainly. But is it impossible? No. If my horse was attacked, I would be looking for any way to prevent it from happening again that is possible, I would not be trusting the common sense of people I don't know if I had the money to get a dog-proof fence.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

.
I have a dog proof fence on three sides of my property, but the driveway is open. Can't close that off, so in that case a stray dog could get into my home. 
I realize what you are saying about basically fencing in the horses to protect, but sometimes that is not easy financially. Will these dogs run again, you bet they will . The owners don't care, have no responsibility for them and once its dark, they will be off their chains. Does my daughter want to shoot them? Not particularly, she loves dogs, but her horses are her responsibility and she can't afford to have them kill either of them next time. Will these dogs bit a human? Yep, they already have. Does that stop the owners? Nope. Can the sheriff or A/C just come and take them from them? No, not without a court order or court case and that is not going to happen without proof of actual attack. Is my daughter or son in law going to wait the next time to take a photo? Nope. The dogs will be shot or the people will move and take them with them, but something will happen again.

I am not going to debate whether the dogs should be shot if they go on my daughters property again or whether the dog owners should take responsibility because its not the dogs fault or whether my daughters landlord should put up dog proof fencing for the horses, which he will not do. 
I have shot dogs that have chased and hurt my horses, didn't want to, but if their owners will not take responsibility and the dogs are livestock killers or children biters, they need to be destroyed. These dog owners are not going to spend the money to euthanize them, they don't want to turn their "pets ' into the pound because they know what happens to livestock killers/child biters, so they just figure to ignore the problem and someone will take care of it for them.
I will continue to give updates on Left Eye and send photos when I get them this weekend for the folks on the forum who care about what happened, but will no longer address the "should they or shouldn't they shoot the dogs". If it hasn't happened to your horse, then you can't have a clue the anger you feel because of the dogs and their owners.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

> They now also have it on report that the german shepherd bit my granddaughter about two weeks ago when it jumped the fence while she was walking her golden retriever puppy on a leash.


Just this report alone should be enough for AC to take that particular dog and have it put to sleep. And since they are in a residential neighborhood, I would suggest either a shotgun or a 30-30. Those are less likely to injure a bystander if the shooter misses the dog.


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## hillarymorganstovall (Mar 27, 2010)

wyominggrandma said:


> Nobody hates you, but you have to understand livestock, horses, cows, pigs have to be protected by humans. Sure, dog proof fence, keeping them in the yard, training them, that is all fine and dandy, but when the owners do not care about the dogs hurting other animals(they have killed the neighbors 4-H pigs, sheep) given tickets, etc and they still don't care, when it gets to the point of taking down a horse, then the dogs are dangerous.


I totally agree that something has to be done about the situation. They should've been taken from the owners WAY before they attacked your daughter's horse. They could've at least had a chance to be rehomed. In my opinion the owners should have to pay the vet bill for your horse and have some jail time. What they are doing is negligent and cruel and they should be fined and fined and fined. It is _their_ actions that are hurting _everyone_. And for that matter, the law enforcement/animal control is responsible for letting it escalate! 

I don't consider an animal that is vicious toward livestock to be dangerous _necessarily_, but you have said that he bit your daughter I think, so that is a whole other issue. It's a sad sad situation and I understand your point very clearly. I just feel it is unfair for the dogs to be killed, when given a good owner they don't have to be. My sister has a vicious pitbull who killed my cat last year, so I know the situation yall are in, but my sister is a selfish, irresponsible owner. I have said before that he should've been killed in the pound, and I would still have her with me, but I know it is her fault not his (although I _do_ still blame him). She has a cat and another english bulldog, and he is fine with them. If she had socialized him with my cat we wouldn't have had a problem. But she simply didn't care because she was _my_ cat not hers (just like the neighbors). I also have 4 dogs of my own, and am currently keeping another and would never let them hurt a pet, because I am responsible.

So I understand. But it still frustrates me that something so horrific could have been so easily prevented.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

roro said:


> They don't have to. My point is, it is a near sure fire way to prevent it unless you have a guard on duty 24/7 with a gun that can scan the whole property. Is another dog attack unlikely? Certainly. But is it impossible? No. If my horse was attacked, I would be looking for any way to prevent it from happening again that is possible, I would not be trusting the common sense of people I don't know if I had the money to get a dog-proof fence.


I've had several dogs that could jump/climb a 6 1/2 foot fence without hardly slowing down. I don't think there is such a thing as dog proof fencing when you are talking about fencing a pasture.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

thanks, I totally agree. The thought of dog proofing a horse pasture sounds great in theory, but pretty much impossible to really do. like you kevinshorses, I have seen big and small dogs clear a chain link fence of 6ft height. One big dog of 90 pounds could crawl over a 6 foot chain link fence from flat ground. If a dog wants in or out of a fence and is a climber or jumper, there is no stopping it.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

A thirty caliber bullet stops one pretty good though. Is your daughter a capable shooter?


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

I didn't say it was practical, my point really was that a gun is not a 100% safety net because frankly a) the person could miss (at worst, during an active attack this could mean accidentally shooting the horse as well) and b) nobody is sitting right next to the horse 24/7 with a gun. Keeping a horse in a barn at night is dog proof if it's a decent barn, as I have never seen a dog that could batter-ram the side of a sturdy wooden barn to get through.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Here are the facts: 

Chows, Pit bulls, (the breed name is terrier) and German Shepard's are all prey driven dogs. German Shepard's in particular are also herding dogs. Keeping dogs that are naturally inclined to become aggressive when provoked to chase is not a smart thing to do in the back country where there are lots of livestock and other prey animals roaming about. The fault here lies mostly with the owner, for a) not keeping the dogs properly contained and b)not choosing the dog based on their area. The fact that they might have been running in a "pack" mentality also is a problem.

I would definitely be on the lookout, and the only thing I could think of to do to "dog proof" your property would be possibly setting up hotwire around the perimeter, at least where it borders where the dogs supposedly come from around the base of the fence line. Dogs are diggers not jumpers by nature, so they're more likely to try and go under something first. When they try to crawl under they'll get one hell of a shock.

I also agree with roro that maybe setting up some roundpens that are closer to the house and within hearing distance and bringing the horses in at night until the dogs are caught or killed would be advisable.


Just out of curiosity, have there been any livestock deaths in your area recently? Someone else posted this, and they are pretty much correct---once dogs form a hunting pack, they can be pretty relentless. Your daughters horse being attacked wouldn't be a singular incident.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Not everyone has a barn that is dog proof either. There is nothing that is 100% safe. You do the best you can and try to keep the animals safe. Dogs usually don't kill animals the first time they get out. They start chasing then it gets more and more aggresive. Most of the time there is an opportunity to deal with the dogs before they kill something.


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## Icrazyaboutu (Jul 17, 2009)

If she is against shooting them or feels bad for the dogs because she knows it is the owners fault she could always catch the dogs and call animal control. That what we did when two dogs came and killed our rooster(would have got the whole flock if the rooster wasn't there) and the animal control people took the dogs, fined the owner, and said he would have to pay a lot to get them back.

It's a more pleasant way to go if she has a place to lock them in for a while.


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## grayshell38 (Mar 9, 2009)

In my experience, there is no such thing as a dog proof fence, especially if there is something they really want on the other side. I work at a vet clinic and we also do boarding. The runs that we have are 3ft x 6ft x 6ft. There is no way for a dog to get up speed to jump it, but a pair of Doberman came in that did not like each other. One of them somehow managed to jump or climb or something out of it's run just so that it could go and start a fight with the other dog. There is a little jack russel type dog in right now that is not allowed out in the yard we have without a leash. He will climb a six foot chain link fence from right in front of it, and do it fast. The morel being, that if there is something a dog wants bad enough on the other side of an obstacle, they WILL get to it.


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## HooverH (May 17, 2008)

Speed, they changed the formula of AntiFreeze to make it less palatable. Also, putting "poisoned bait" out does not guarantee you get the offending dogs, and could end up killing innocent stay cats and other non-aggressive dogs. Bad idea, in my opinion.

I personally would lean towards getting a donkey. They hate dogs, will kill them if they get into their pasture, and are very loud about alerting of danger. A lot of sheep owners keep a donkey with their flock for just such a reason.

Wyoming, I'm glad the mare seems to be feeling better. As other have said, some people just shouldn't own dogs.


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

> I personally would not shoot these dogs unless I absolutely had to, it just doesn't seem right for me to end a dog's life because the owners are complete idiots. I would use a BB gun, and maybe turn the dogs into the AC. However, remember that these are just a few dogs. Other dogs can still come along and do the same thing, by killing these dogs you are only providing immediate protection. Permanent protection comes in the form of dog-proof fencing. It is very hard to be there 24/7 with a rifle to protect a horse, but a proper fence can do that permanently.




It is sad that the dog has to suffer due to owner stupidity and negligence. The reality of it is though, once a dog has attacked livestock, it will never stop. The time that these dogs could have been taught better was before the attack. Now it's only a matter of time before they get out and do it again. If my own dog attacked someones livestock, I would have her put down myself, because there is no going back at that point. My best friend had to shoot her dog because it attacked someones cow (she also paid for the cow, which is what a responsible owner should do). It broke her heart, but it had to be done. You are probably right, there probably will be other dogs around at some point, but it has been my experience that most dogs don't attack livestock. I for one am hoping that the woman shoots and kills all of the dogs before something or someone gets killed. 
​


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

sandy2u1 said:


> It is sad that the dog has to suffer due to owner stupidity and negligence. The reality of it is though, once a dog has attacked livestock, it will never stop. The time that these dogs could have been taught better was before the attack. Now it's only a matter of time before they get out and do it again. If my own dog attacked someones livestock, I would have her put down myself, because there is no going back at that point. My best friend had to shoot her dog because it attacked someones cow (she also paid for the cow, which is what a responsible owner should do). It broke her heart, but it had to be done. You are probably right, there probably will be other dogs around at some point, but it has been my experience that most dogs don't attack livestock. I for one am hoping that the woman shoots and kills all of the dogs before something or someone gets killed.
> ​



I do realize that, all in all, a bullet or a BB gun may be all there is to prevent an attack by the same dogs if nothing else can be done. When I posted that, I was reacting to a tone I was feeling on this thread, and frankly I was somewhat appalled that people were calling these dogs 'nasty little ******s' 'stupid' 'mean sounding' and suggesting that anti-freeze should be put out to poison them. From what I read the dogs are chained, so I do hope they do not escape again for the sake of both them and the horses. It is important to remember that the dogs are just a much a victim of this accident as the horse is. If I was in this situation I would get on the dog's owners' back like a bad rash and not relent until I was 100% sure that both my horse and the dogs would be as safe as possible. Different people have different tolerance levels, some will shoot any dog that goes on the property and others would let their horses fend for themselves. There really isn't any thoroughly correct answer that everyone can agree on.


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## AlmostThere (Oct 31, 2009)

roro said:


> frankly I was somewhat appalled that people were calling these dogs 'nasty little ******s' 'stupid' 'mean sounding' and suggesting that anti-freeze should be put out to poison them.


They attacked a little girl. 

They attacked a horse. 

They apparently also killed some pigs. 

They are dangerous. 

They crossed the line from nice little pets to nasty little buggars a long time ago. 

There may be other dogs that cause problems in the future, but the OP's daughter should not hesitate to defend her own family and livestock and property from this current threat, just because there might be another threat some time in the future. 

Just because something is an animal, does not magically make it so special it should not be put down when it turns vicious. There are too many nice, friendly, non-aggressive dogs out there being put down because there are not enough people to give them homes. No more time should be wasted trying to save ones who attack little girls and livestock.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

AlmostThere said:


> They attacked a little girl.
> 
> They attacked a horse.
> 
> ...


Dogs don't judge things the way we do.

Their owners allowed them to get loose and out of control.

They acted on impulse.

They do not realize the consequences of their actions.

It is simply anthropomorphizing to call them 'nasty little buggars' and that is counter-productive. I'm not arguing that the daughter doesn't have the right to shoot, she does and is free to exercise that right if the dogs attack again. However, if we think that dogs do this because they are 'nasty' we are not fully comprehending the situation. "just because it's an animal does not make it special?" This point confuses me. For one, people are animals as well. And by suggesting that 'animals' as you define them should be put down when they become vicious, doesn't that somehow imply that humans are put down when they become vicious? I believe you worded that incorrectly.


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

How devastating. I only read the first page but I wanted to post how sorry I am to hear this. Irresponsible people should not be allowed to own animals, let alone vicious, aggressive ones! Those dogs should be removed from that home and sent to live somewhere safe with owners who won't put other lives in danger.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Here are the facts:
> 
> *Chows, Pit bulls, (the breed name is terrier) and German Shepard's are all prey driven dogs. Um, Aren't all dogs prey driven? I've seen frikkin' papillions chase after prey animals if they run.* *German Shepard's in particular are also herding dogs. Keeping dogs that are naturally inclined to become aggressive when provoked to chase is not a smart thing to do in the back country where there are lots of livestock and other prey animals roaming about. Definate agree. Very bad idea.* *and b)not choosing the dog based on their area. The faThe fault here lies mostly with the owner, for a) not keeping the dogs properly contained ct that they might have been running in a "pack" mentality also is a problem. I agree with this as well. The dogs are not at fault. They are prey driven animals who will chase anything that runs. Its an instinctive reaction.*
> 
> ...


Read the purple.


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## hillarymorganstovall (Mar 27, 2010)

RORO, I understand the tone you were feeling. I was feeling it too. How some people were responding so callously, 'how a bullet will stop' it and things like that. It's very crude.

HooverH, the donkey is a great idea. That's what people do here with their cattle (no one has sheep).


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

roro said:


> And by suggesting that 'animals' as you define them should be put down when they become vicious, doesn't that somehow imply that humans are put down when they become vicious?


Have you ever been to Texas? I think Ron White summed this sentiment up when he said something to the effect of, "If you kill someone in Texas, we kill you back."

Not trying to start that debate, just making a point. I THINK a lot of the people were responding to the fact that animal control couldn't -- maybe wouldn't, who knows -- take these dogs from the owner after the first however many complaints. I was one of the people who thought killing them would be a good idea, although it would absolutely break my heart. There is no way for the cops or animal control to punish the owner without direct evidence that these dogs attacked that horse, or another animal. So far as I know, that would have to be an eyewitness, or possibly molds of the injuries if there was a clear impression. I'm not a forensic scientist or a lawyer, so I'm out of my element here. The way I saw it with the information before me was that killing the dogs was the only real option Wyoming's daughter had of protecting her horses. I also don't think that there is any way to nail the dog owner with the vet bills without evidence. In a perfect world, the dogs could be rehabbed and the owner would land in prison. I just don't see that happening.

NOTE: I don't mean to offend anyone, and I apologize if I do. I am only stating my opinion.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Okay, guys I am going to reply one more time. Then it would be nice to get back to the horse, not the debate of sweet little doggies verses nasty dog.
My daughter and family just recently moved to this neighborhood within the last three months. They have had numerous problems from these particular dogs, biting my granddaughter, chasing the horses, killing the neighbors pigs, chasing sheep,etc. The owners always get them back before anyone has shot them, then claim they do not let the dog run. Not sure where everyone lives that are stating: get A/C to take the dogs away, catch and turn them in etc, but sometimes things are not that simple. Depending on where you live things are not cut and dried. I live in Wyoming, the A/C is the sheriff and trust me, they would rather have you shoot a dog chasing or killing livestock than bother them about an animal call. They check reports and if the dog is in the backyard by the time they get there, oh well. My daughter talked to other neighbors about these dogs and was told that if they get rid of one by someone shooting it, or the A/C taking it, etc they just go get more. So she felt it was no choice to do anything. Even when the horse was torn to shreds, the Sheriff said" are you sure this happend and wire did not do it? Are the kids sure they heard the attack and they did not take photos? What do you mean this could ruin this horses barrel carreer, its only some torn skin, muscle, etc". He was mad to be called out for a horse,. The sheriff has told people not to shoot in a neighborhood, they could get a ticket, etc. My daughter was trying very hard not to move in and start bitching about everything, getting mad, etc. After this has happened, the main A/C officer TOLD her to shoot the dogs, she would not be charged, and frankly it would stop the killing in the neighborhood of livestock. At least the dogs would be shot on someone elses property to prove they are running at large.
So, maybe where you live its different, but here in the mountain states things are alot different than the more populated areas.
Sure, would be great to go out and buy panels, put up a barn, etc but if there is no money to do that, if your animals should be safe on your property, then you do what has to be done to protect them.Glad some folks can afford to board at big riding stables, etc, but not all of us can do that, we trust our animals are safe from maurading dogs.
Okay, it has cost her dearly. My granddaughter if afraid to walk her dog, and now Left Eye has been attacked. That is the facts. The other facts are the dogs will be shot if they go onto my daughters property, and yes both her and her husband are great shots.Now the other neighbors feel they can protect their own livestock without being afraid of prosocution . 
if you guys want to keep telling me and my daughter we are mean people because she will protect her family and her horses now, then just quit posting. If you are so into "protect the doggies" and seem to have so many financial resources, then why don't you send some money to help my daughters horses vet bills? 
I am over what this has turned into, a debate of why the dogs should not be killed if they start roaming onto my daughters property. As I said last night, if you go outside and your horse is down and torn to shreds by a couple of vicious dogs, then feel free to post again about how those poor dogs should just be taken away and the owners should lose their dogs. Remember it will not be the dogs faults, its the owners faults, although they will not pay the vet bills because of course the dogs are back in the owners yards by that time. See how that feels then get into the debate of horse proof fencing, stalls, barns, etc. 
I will let you people who care know about Left Eye later today when I talk to my daughter. Otherwise I am done, this has gotten into protect the dogs at all cost and the heck with the horse. How stupid


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Bravo Wyoming!

I am all for animal protection, but a dog running rampant needs to be dealt with.

Please do keep us updated on Left Eye's recovery, I know I am certainly pulling for her!


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

I hope you hear good things today!


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> Otherwise I am done, this has gotten into protect the dogs at all cost and the heck with the horse. How stupid


Where oh where are you finding this?


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## AlmostThere (Oct 31, 2009)

Wyominhgrandma - I'm sending good thoughts hoping Left Eye recovers well and quickly. I'm so sorry your daughter and granddaughter have had to go though this mess (all of the trouble since they moved in - not just the horse attack). It sounds like the other neighbors are decent people, and once those idiots with the dogs move out she may be living in a very good place for her family. 

At least the authorities have finally come around about letting them take care of the danger those dogs represent, and your daughter or son-in-law will not be in trouble if they shoot them. They may even end up being heroes in their little neighborhood, by the time this is all over.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> I've had several dogs that could jump/climb a 6 1/2 foot fence without hardly slowing down. I don't think there is such a thing as dog proof fencing when you are talking about fencing a pasture.


I was just thinking that. My Mals are a lot like German Shepards. Anything they can't jump, they climb, or go under.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

To the person who suggested poisoning the dogs with anti-freeze: this is absolutely 100% a terrible, TERRIBLE death. It literally will eat an animals organs and provide them with hours upon hours of misery before killing them. 
I agree these dogs need to be killed, but for goodness sakes anti-freeze is not the answer.


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

OP -I'm glad Left Eye is doing better. I hope she continues to improve. 
My friends' horse was attacked a couple years ago by the neighbors dogs. Nothing as bad as your daughter's mare. The horse needed stitches on her face and in a couple other places. The authorities didn't do much with the dog owners then either. They ticketed the people & told them to never let it happen again. Of course it did, not my friends horse this time though. The dog owners just didn't feel that they were responsible for what their pets did. They had these really expensive dogs (American Bulldogs) that the just put in their backyard & did nothing with. Some people are so stupid.
I think your daughter is well within her rights to take whatever action or precautions she feels she needs to in order to protect her property & family. Everyone has a right to feel safe in their own home.
I truly wish her the best, and am sorry.


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

> Chows, Pit bulls, (the breed name is terrier) and German Shepard's are all prey driven dogs.


ALL DOGS, despite breed, are freaking prey driven. They're PREDATORS, for crying out loud. I've never seen a dog bouncing around and nipping at a stalk of corn going, "yeah! I'm gonna have you for dinnerz!!1"



> They do not realize the consequences of their actions.


And they never will - because no one will ever correct them. The more they get away with, the more dangerous they will become. It snowballs, there is no "Yep, we took down that tasty horse.. let's call it quits." The confidence builds and builds, and how long is it before they jump their own owners? It's not unheard of for owners to be attacked and killed by their 'loyal pets'.

The safest way for these dogs to be dealt with it a bullet or a dose of euthanasia. And I would take a ticket or a few days in jail for protecting my property that costs $1,000's of dollars any day. I highly doubt this BS about it being illegal to PROTECT what is RIGHTFULLY YOURS would ever stand up in court and have you heavily fined. If worse comes to worse, take an archery class. Loop holes anyone?


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

They mean that these dogs are bred to attack large prey.
German Shepherds- anything large
Chow Chows- guard dogs
Pit bulls- bred for hundreds of years to fight BULLS.
The point is that any dog can do it, but these dogs have been bred to take down and kill large animals and have the TOOLS and the natural drive to do it.

Wyoming, I am sorry to hear about your daughters horse. I am also horrified that they also attacked your little grandbaby. I hope the problem is solved soon. 

Sure antifreeze is a bad way to die, but so is a horse being mauled to death by a pack of dogs and a little girl being attacked and possibly killed by that same pack of dangerous dogs. It really has little to do with their natural instincts and breeding at this point, the individual dogs are dangerous and have cost a lot of money and attacked a child, they need to be dealt with in any way possible.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

At the risk of being 'flamed'; but I'm posting anyway...

This is why as horse/livestock owners, we NEED to know the laws regarding dogs at large...sorry folks but a dog who accidentally escapes his yard, is a dog at large, and if he gets into trouble with livestock, he can be shot...it's the law in most states. As a dog owner, you are responsible for the actions of your dog, whether he is killed or not, in the process of attacking stock. 

I won't hesitate to get rid of a dog who is fence chasing, or has gotten into my fences, and is chasing my goats or horses...I won't tolerate it; if a dog owner loves his dog he will keep him AT HOME where he belongs, just like us livestock owners are expected to keep our animals in a fenced yard, and out of danger of being killed on the road, or putting other people in danger of being hurt. 

I have been in situations where neighbor dogs, or even my own, have injured or killed my stock, and I didn't hesitate to euthanize him, especially if he was supposed to be a working dog...I have also been in situations where my own dogs have escaped for whatever reason, caused trouble with neighbors animals, and have had to face the consequences of that (ie, dog was brought to pound, or shot). 

It doesn't take rocket science to realize the responsible thing to do is to make absolutely certain your canine is not going to be able to cause trouble...adequate fencing, proper exercise, and making sure he is properly penned up if you're gone. Our beloved 'rin tin tin's' are VERY capable of killing any type of stock, or smaller animals, simply because they are predators...doesn't matter how sweet he is at home...he can get bored and develop bad habits like chasing, and eventually killing, if he's not properly taken care of, and the bigger the dog, the more attention he's going to require. If you don't have that kind of time, then consider a dog who's smaller, and more adaptable to living without so much exercise, mental stimulation, and attention. 

I love dogs, and I love horses (and other livestock), and I hate to see either injured or killed because of a lack of knowledge on his owner's part...and it angers me when people get the mentality that their precious dogs aren't capable of such acts as this thread demonstrates...they are, and as a dog owner, you need to be responsible for the actions of your dogs! Place them in homes where there are no livestock around, or start being conscious of where they are at, and make for darn sure they can't get out and repeat an offense like this. 

To the OP...there are ways of figuring out for sure what dogs did this, but it would involve being able to access their feces, and getting dental impressions. The dog owners are responsible for the vet bills, and if the horse dies, they are responsible for the cost of it... so try every avenue you can think of to get them to pay up and 'own' what their dogs did. That is one thing I know is true for every state; dog owners are responsible for damage their animals do, just like we as horse owners would be responsible if our horses get out and someone hits it, and they get seriously injured or killed.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Honeysuga said:


> They mean that these dogs are bred to attack large prey.
> German Shepherds- anything large
> .


Sorry, but you need to learn the history of your dog breeds; german shepards were originally bred as herding dogs; it wasn't til much later that different agencies were realizing the intelligence of these animals and started using them for service dog work, and police work. :wink: A German Shepard should not be unstable in temperment, as he was bred to be a 'thinking' dog, and be able to do tasks on his own.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

However, it is easier for a dog like a german shepherd or a border collie to cross that line from herding to predator _because_ they have such a strong prey drive.

Wyoming , please keep us updated on how Left Eye is doing and when things change for the better. Keeping all of you in my thoughts and prayers.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Here's Nevada's dog laws regarding loose canines...

By law, a livestock (e. g. , hog or cattle) or poultry owner, or his agent, who observes a dog pursuing or worrying his animals, may kill the dog without civil or criminal liability (CGS § 22-358). 
If a dog has killed livestock, the livestock owner may report the loss to the town’s chief administrative official within 24 hours, and the town must reimburse him (the law provides a process for determining the amount, with the burden of proof being on the person making the claim) for the estimated value of the animals lost. The town may recover that amount plus other expenses from the dog’s owner or keeper. If the town pays more than $ 100 and it cannot collect reimbursement from the dog owner, it can forward information about the case to the Agriculture Commissioner who may request that the Treasurer reimburse the town (CGS § 22-355). 
In less extreme instances, a livestock or poultry owner who sees a dog at large may report the dog to the local animal control officer (ACO), as the law prohibits dogs from roaming at large on someone else’s land or a public road. The ACO may impound the dog and issue the owner an infraction (CGS §§ 22-332 & 364). 
Specifically addressing vicious dogs, an owner or keeper of a vicious dog is subject to a fine of up to $ 1,000, imprisonment for up to six months, or both, if (1) he has violated the law by allowing his dog to roam at large on someone else’s property or a public road during the prior year; (2) he intentionally or recklessly allows his dog to roam again; and (3) the dog physically injures another person who was not teasing, tormenting, or abusing it. However, for the penalty to apply, the dog’s owner must also be aware of the dog’s propensity for violence (CGS § 22-364). We have attached OLR report 2004-R-308, which contains information about quarantining and disposing of dogs that bite people. 
Additionally, a dog owner or keeper is liable if his dog damages anyone or their property, or livestock, so long as the injured person was not (1) trespassing or committing another tort or (2) teasing, tormenting, or abusing the dog (CGS § 22-357).


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

One way to prove it was their dogs on your daughters property would be to either get pictures or video if it ever happens again. That way, they can't say that the dogs are always tied up or penned.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

mom2pride said:


> Sorry, but you need to learn the history of your dog breeds; german shepards were originally bred as herding dogs; it wasn't til much later that different agencies were realizing the intelligence of these animals and started using them for service dog work, and police work. :wink: A German Shepard should not be unstable in temperment, as he was bred to be a 'thinking' dog, and be able to do tasks on his own.


Yes, thank you, I know their history. They are bred as a thinking dog but also as a herd protection dog. They are also bred for defense of home and person. I know.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

Who cares about the dogs, how's Left Eye? I hope she's doing well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Left Eye is doing better today. She is able to walk better and seems pretty alert. Still can't touch the back leg, but she is putting weight on it. My daughter is running a hose on her back leg/fetlock twice a day, she doesn't kick at the water, I am sure it feels good. Here are some photos of her injuries that my daughter sent to me on my laptop at the dog shows.She has a long long way to go, but my daughter is feeling more hopeful now. So is the vet. The really ugly one is the front leg where the skin has been ripped off and since it could not be found, obviously eaten by the dogs. Her knee is full of stitches, her other huge injury on the front leg, the hindlegs show teeth marks and tears up and down her legs


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

Definitely dog marks...can't believe the owners of the dogs would blame it on a mountain lion, when the cat would have jumped on her back and neck...:shock::evil:

It is looking pretty good, though...I can only imagine what it looked like when it happened, poor girl :-(


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

God, that's horrible. Here's sending well wishes and antibacterial thoughts her way. My heart aches for her.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

yeh, these photos are today, so almost three days post injury. It will be a long haul, I worry that the knee will lose some mobility, but maybe with physical therapy, stretching and massages, the skin will remain supple.
Yep, definetaly dogs, certainly not a mountain lion.


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## alace (Apr 19, 2010)

wish we could help... best of wishes from our family here.... keep us posted.... hugs...


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Poor mare. I can't believe people are fighting for the dogs when poor Left Eye is so injured. The dogs will just get more dangerous, it's best to stop them before they hurt [or kill] anything [or anyone] else. ::sigh::

I'm sending healing vibes your way; for you, your daughter, son-in-law, and the mare. Keep us posted. And post a pic of her pretty face. =]


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## AlmostThere (Oct 31, 2009)

How is the mare doing?


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

*Left Eye is my daughters barrel horse*

I should have posted to this thread, but put one under Left Eye. 
She is doing better, walking more normal. The wounds are not draining as bad and hopefully she is on the long road to recovery. Lots of swelling and bruising now also


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

She's a good looking horse. I hope she continues to improve. I don't know how they could think those wounds were from anything but a dog.


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