# Ongoing horror story with breeding with Top 5 AQHA World Show Halter Stallion



## luvs2ride1979 (Nov 9, 2007)

This is why I don't breed, or lease, or deal with show people, lol. Your post reads like an episode of "As the Hot Walker Turns" LOL!!!


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Racing07 - what is the purpose of this post?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

The poster is asking this:

_So my question is have any of you had mare leasing thru AQHA nightmare storys and did they get resolved, and what if anything helped your case._

My thoughts are that they need to contact AQHA because if there is a forgery going on, they need to know.

I'm not sure what the issue is with the stud, because I'm not a breeder and only have minimal knowledge so I can't help you there...

My question on the lease agreement is this: What are the rules when a horse is leased? Does AQHA state that you can breed her? AND who owns the baby? It was always my understanding that when a mare is pregnant, the baby... belongs to the owner of the mare... Do your friends have anything in writing? I think they may have gotten themselves "screwed"....


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

farmpony84 said:


> The poster is asking this:
> 
> _So my question is have any of you had mare leasing thru AQHA nightmare storys and did they get resolved, and what if anything helped your case._


There is no leasing *through* AQHA. If you are competing a horse or breeding a horse owned by an AQHA member, AQHA needs a copy of the lease to credit points, etc. But the leasing is done through the recorded owner of the horse.

Most broodmare leases, the resulting foal is owned by whomever is leasing.

The OPs post is rambling and all over. If there is an issue here, airing your 'friends' problems on a public forum could very well do more harm than good.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Sounds like a problem that a lawyer should be contacted for. I might suggest the OP ask for this post to be deleted so the owners can take care of business.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Since no names were mentioned, including those of the horses, I see no reason to delete this post. I would however, be willing to lock it.


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## Racing07 (Feb 21, 2009)

As to mls's post: "The OPs post is rambling and all over", I feel that I was just trying to explain the situation that was occuring and covering all points.
As to mls's post:
"There is no leasing *through* AQHA. If you are competing a horse or breeding a horse owned by an AQHA member, AQHA needs a copy of the lease to credit points, etc. But the leasing is done through the recorded owner of the horse."---- I agree that leasing is done through the mare's owner, however according to the AQHA Rules Handbook(the following excerpt is from AQHA's 2009 online handbook):
*225. LEASES
(a)​*​​​​For a lease of a horse to be recognized by AQHA, written
notice of such lease shall be filed with AQHA, signed by both the
recorded owner as lessor, and lessee. The notice shall specify the
effective date of lease and may provide a term no longer than three
years, at the expiration of which, the lease must be re-recorded to
remain effective. If the term is intended for a shorter period, it shall
also provide a termination date. Termination other than expiration
of lease term may be accomplished by written notice to AQHA,
specifying the termination date, signed by both lessor and lessee, or
by a properly executed transfer report, which shows a change of ownership
from lessor to lessee, signed by the record owner/lessor. No
additional fee shall be charged for terminating the lease, whether​
automatic or by subsequent notice thereof.------
I make reference to the first line of the above article," For a lease of a horse to be recognized by AQHA, written
notice of such lease shall be filed with AQHA, signed by both the
recorded owner as lessor, and lessee". THIS becomes important when time to register the foal in your name as per the same rulebook -- *
202. REGISTRATION PROCEDURE.
(a) *To register a horse with AQHA, the record owner or record
lessee of the foal’s dam at time of foaling (at time of breeding if an
embryo transfer foal) is responsible for submitting a properly completed
and signed registration application, a completed and signed
breeder’s certificate, and the correct registration fee as specified in
rule 222. In the event a frozen embryo permit is used to register a
foal, the owner of the permit shall sign the registration application as
the owner at time of foaling.​
*(b)​*​​​​Each registration application must be completed and signed
by the owner of this foal’s dam at the time of foaling (at time of breeding
if an embryo transfer foal) by the dam’s lessee (if a record of the
lease is on file with AQHA) or by a person authorized to sign for the
owner or lessee (if a record of the authorization is on file with AQHA)
for the foal to be eligible for registration. In the event a frozen
embryo permit is used to register a foal, the owner of the permit shall​
sign the registration application as the owner at time of foaling."
Notice the line in 202(b)--- "by the dam’s lessee (if a record of the
lease is on file with AQHA)". 
The lease papers thru AQHA are not for points or whatever, but a little more important, to show ownership of the foal as recognized by the AQHA and to register the foal in your name.
farmpony84--I did not mention any names for legal reasons, but only the fact of the stud's performance record as I'm not of the greatest faith in AQHA treating the little guy as equal as the big leaguers. Feel free to lock or delete the post if you feel fit.
PS.--I'm not upset with any reply posts on our thread, just looking for a little help(someone thats been there) for our friends, Thank You.​


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

The issue as I see it is...did the original lease papers get recorded at the AQHA in the very beginning and did the papers that were returned with the wrong date come from the AQHA directly or the original owners of the mare.

So at what point did the date change from 2010 to 2009?


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## Racing07 (Feb 21, 2009)

The original lease paper filed with the AQHA had a 2010 end date. Last week, our friends got a copy of leases papers from the AQHA stating 2009 end date. That is when they contacted the AQHA. The had contacted the AQHA last November when they were having ongoing problems with the mare owner. Our friends said in the last week conversation with AQHA, that someone(from AQHA) had not "flagged" the November concern. Last week they than contacted the AQHA when they received the lease copy with their forged signatures.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Racing07 said:


> The original lease paper filed with the AQHA had a 2010 end date. Last week, our friends got a copy of leases papers from the AQHA stating 2009 end date. That is when they contacted the AQHA. The had contacted the AQHA last November when they were having ongoing problems with the mare owner. Our friends said in the last week conversation with AQHA, that someone(from AQHA) had not "flagged" the November concern. Last week they than contacted the AQHA when they received the lease copy with their forged signatures.


 
And is there a copy of the original lease floating around with the 2010 date that was originally specified that can be used to compare date and signatures?

The suspicion would appear that somone in the know at AQHA changed it. And then this brings up the obvious question....who actually had possession of the original papers with the 2010 date on it *that SENT them in to the AQHA?*


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## Racing07 (Feb 21, 2009)

I would also wonder who sent it in since our friends still have the original lease agreement ending 2010. They had faxed in the "original" papers to the AQHA and got a statement (contract) back showing they had the lease on mare till 2010. This of course is all before the "updated" lease paper they received last week or so.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Racing07 said:


> I would also wonder who sent it in since our friends still have the original lease agreement ending 2010. They had faxed in the "original" papers to the AQHA and got a statement (contract) back showing they had the lease on mare till 2010. This of course is all before the "updated" lease paper they received last week or so.


If they got a confirmation of the 2010 date from the AQHA then any differences must have come from the mare owners who somehow got AQHA to change the date....or the original mare owners sent in a "corrected" false lease paper with a changed date.

This is a breach of contract by the original mare owners and is sueable by your friends. Contracts can only be changed if all parties to that contract agree to the changed terms. The mare owners are liable in something like this for all the costs incurred by your friends or the foal or foals. Since I highly doubt the foals will be returned ( possession being 9/10 of the law) then all breeding costs both real and punitive should be sued for.


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## Racing07 (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks Spyder for replys. Like we said in our original post, we're just looking for info to pass on to our friends and let them decide what they want to do. We'll keep you updated what/if anything the AQHA will do. Thanks again.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Racing07 said:


> The original lease paper filed with the AQHA had a 2010 end date. Last week, our friends got a copy of leases papers from the AQHA stating 2009 end date. That is when they contacted the AQHA. The had contacted the AQHA last November when they were having ongoing problems with the mare owner. Our friends said in the last week conversation with AQHA, that someone(from AQHA) had not "flagged" the November concern. Last week they than contacted the AQHA when they received the lease copy with their forged signatures.


YES - FILED with AQHA to prove the lease but AQHA does not control the lease. Therefore the lease is not THROUGH AQHA.


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## Racing07 (Feb 21, 2009)

Mls-I'm not looking for a battle over terminology, or I'm the last one to get a dig in. A lease thru a mare owner that is not going to be an AQHA registration, sure it really doesn't matter. However, The lease agreement HAS TO GO THRU THE AQHA to "PROVE" ownership of the foal and to be able to register the foal in your name and earn points,etc as you had already stated. Kinda of important, don't you think? Control and through are not the same. Filing the lease report with the AQHA is going through their channels to keep the lease "recognized" by the AQHA, enough said.


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## alldun (Jan 18, 2009)

That's weird that AQHA didn't catch the difference on that file between the faxed lease and then received something totally different in the hard copy.
Sounds like your friends have quite the fight in front of them-and at a certain point you really only can feel 1 foal because they are too big. Ultrasounding is ineffective after 4-5 months because, again, the foal is too big.


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## Racing07 (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks for your reply alldun,
Yes, our friends vets both couldn't figure out the whole palpating/ultrasound thing so late in the pregnancy. Latest news from our friends(last week) said the stud owner contacted them and said the "one twin" died and they were putting the mare on Regumate and hoping to go full term(she's due in two weeks). It's getting stranger all the time. They're still waiting for a reply from AQHA though.


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## Tayz (Jan 24, 2009)

Thats sad that one of the twins died  but i suppose twins can be really difficult for horses...


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## ShowJumpLife (Jan 17, 2009)

sounds to me like the owners of the mare wanted a foal.. minus the breeding expenses etc.. dodgyyy


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