# Teaching a Canter on a Lunge Line



## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm probably going to get yelled at for this, but it's the only way I know how to fix the issue.

I would put a snaffle on, and feed the line thru the bit, over the top of the head, and attached it to the other side of the bit. Then I would attach the reins the the shoulder "D" ring, having the inside rein tighter than the outside. You want the inside to be tight enough to discourage bending to the outside, but loose enough that if he's bending correctly there's no contact (pressure vs. release). As far as picking up the canter, I would get after them until they pick it up, if they try to kick at me, I force them to face me, yell at them or whatever to assert that I'm the boss, and do it again. Once they pick it up, verbally reward them, let them go a few strides, bring them down, and repeat.


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

So in this case it would be best to lunge with a saddle - or better yet a surcingle then I'm assuming... if I do, does it matter what loops I use on the sircingle for the side reins?


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

A surcingle works as well, forgot about those. I'd start with the one closest resembling your handset and play around till you find the right spot. I do a lot of adjusting with a horse at first until I find what works for them
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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

The other thing to add is to watch the inside back leg. At its furthest point back, encourage with your voice by clucking a bit as it comes forward, increasing the pace of your voice...you want to go from the two beat trot into the three beat canter "cluck," . Eventually they will, or should anyway, break into a canter. When under saddle, this is also the best time to ask for the canter, when the inside hind is coming forward, since that is the "take off" leg.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Addendum here ...sorry I was tired last night. Add not only voice encouragement when the inside back leg is coming forward but also a gentle flick of your lunge whip. As I indicated previously, it simulates the same action as what happens under saddle when the horse steps off that inside hind leg to take the correct lead into the canter.


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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

Im having a similar problem, the trot just gets faster and faster! I havent asked him for a canter yet and it's been taking a lot to just get him to trot at a normal pace. But I believe mine is immaturity as he is an OTTB that is used to running in straight lines and is still trying to find his balance on a circle. I took him back down to trotting until he has the basics perfected. He wants to break into a canter every so often but battles with keeping a circle. he "runs out" the circle every so often - that side rein idea might be a good idea


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

You shouldn't be lunging with one side rein shorter than the other. Not ever.

Work on the cue before worrying about the lead. If he starts to trot faster, push harder with your body and your voice. The second he canters... leave him and stop pushing. Don't stop until he does canter though. If he canters and then breaks back to a trot, push him forward again until he is cantering. Let him know that the canter is what you want by stopping the pressure to go forward when he does give it to you.


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## MysticL (Sep 5, 2011)

^^^ Noted!


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

Lol, ironically, my guy is an ottb as well. I've had him about two years now and they're just wonderful horses!

I think the bridle will definitely help with the pulling, which in turn should help with being able to cue him properly... 

Being a western trail rider for the most part, I've never had a need for lunging except as a form of correction. I only recently decided to add this skill to my arsenal, and to my horse's.
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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> You shouldn't be lunging with one side rein shorter than the other. Not ever.
> 
> Work on the cue before worrying about the lead. If he starts to trot faster, push harder with your body and your voice. The second he canters... leave him and stop pushing. Don't stop until he does canter though. If he canters and then breaks back to a trot, push him forward again until he is cantering. Let him know that the canter is what you want by stopping the pressure to go forward when he does give it to you.


OK? First time I've ever heard that one. My question is then, when you're riding obviously you want to steer off of your legs, that's a given, but if you have contact on your reins (and I'm not talking a death grip), and lets say your horse wants to turn his nose to the right, but you want him to go left. Isn't having more contact on your left rein (beides using your seat and legs) the same as having the more contact on the inside side rein when lunging, since you can't be on the ground lunging him and riding using your legs to get him to bend at the same time? I'm not talking about bending his body around correctly, I'm talking about where he's pointing his nose.

I'm not understanding why you say you should NEVER have one side rein have more contact than the other. I'm really interested in learning the reasoning behind that.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I was thinking about a simpler correction; changing halters or using a lunge caveson.
The leather halter may be comfy enough to encourage him to use it to lean on, in order to keep his balance. I would probably use a rope halter, fitted tightly, and if he leaned on the line, I'd give it a couple of hard snaps to say , "get off the line and carry your own head!" He should never be allowed to lean on the line. IF the line is taut, he is leaning too much . There should be some small amount of drape to the line, always.


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

I've tried rope halters and gotten the same result... would a lunge caveson discourage the pulling? ... I guess the real issue here is the pulling, not the cantering itself XD.... 

Hmmm... maybe I could even switch to the lariat for the time being.... we used to rig up the lariat into a kind of rope halter that would snug up and release with pressure for starting the young ones with things like leading and even saddling.... maybe it would work here too?

kinda - but not with the rope around the neck - like this:


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> I was thinking about a simpler correction; changing halters or using a lunge caveson.
> The leather halter may be comfy enough to encourage him to use it to lean on, in order to keep his balance. I would probably use a rope halter, fitted tightly, and if he leaned on the line, I'd give it a couple of hard snaps to say , "get off the line and carry your own head!" He should never be allowed to lean on the line. IF the line is taut, he is leaning too much . There should be some small amount of drape to the line, always.


I've only seen a lunge caveson being used once, so forgive me. But if you don't have one, and the main goal is to bring the head to the inside, is bringing the lunge line through the bit and over the head essentially doing the same thing? Even having the inside rein attached to the shoulder Dee, so that there's enough slack not to have pressure when the nose is where it's supposed to be, but will start applying pressure when the horse turns it's nose to the outside?

That and isn't one of the goals to teach the horse to give to pressure on the bit? I thought when using a lunging cavason you attached the lunge line to a dee at the bridge of the nose?

I'm just trying to understand, not be difficult.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

the horse will bring his head to this inside, for you, if you tell him to NOT lean on the line. Fro him to lean on the line, he must contract the muscles on the outside of his neck. You dont' want him contracting muscles like that. You want him to be relaxed. For him to have a bit of internal bend, you want him to tip his nose in a bit, but more importantly, you want him stepping under himself somewhat with the inside leg.

I work on a much shorter line, but of course, only at a trot since it's too tight to ask for a canter , in all fairness. If the horse "boards up", I put pressure on his midline, but hold the "rein" (leadline) firm, whic makes him bow outward a bit. To do that, he must step under with his inside leg and stand up , off the inside shoulder, onto both shoulders evenly.

IN any case, my general advice is to disallow him from leaning on the lunging line. Running the line through the bits may help.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

When you want the horse to bend to the inside, you use your legs and you ask them to bend around your inside leg. When you are lunging the horse, you have no inside leg, so nothing for them to bend "around". Pulling their head in using the inside rein is never going to create bend, it is just going to pull the horse's head into the center of the circle. Side reins should never be adjusted so tight that they can't comfortably bend. However, as when we ride, they should have equal connection on both reins.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

I just wanted to add that when you are teaching a young horse to canter on the lunge, don't use side reins at all. The motion of the horse's head at a canter is going to be impeded by them, and this will discourage the horse and punish them for cantering.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> When you want the horse to bend to the inside, you use your legs and you ask them to bend around your inside leg. When you are lunging the horse, you have no inside leg, so nothing for them to bend "around". Pulling their head in using the inside rein is never going to create bend, it is just going to pull the horse's head into the center of the circle. Side reins should never be adjusted so tight that they can't comfortably bend. However, as when we ride, they should have equal connection on both reins.


So when lunging a horse, what is it that you do to prevent them from essentially "bending" (for lack of a better term) to the outside when they turn their nose to the outside?


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

From what I'm hearing, if I'm understanding ppl correctly when when we are ONLY talking about lunging, is that even if there's no tension on the side rein when the horses head is in a straight postition and tension starts when the horse starts turning it's head to the outside of the circle, this is wrong. So what are you supposed to do? I even tried to draw a picture of a situation where I would have more tension on the inside side rein than the outside:lol:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay I just joined this conversation.. but I have a few things to say. I apologize if they've already been brought up.

First off, if you can't even get a horse to canter.. take the side reins off. They are not balanced nor understand what you want.. adding side reins to this confusion makes it worse.

I suggest staying on the lungeline and push the horse to canter. Once they canter for a few strides, bring them down to a trot. Repeat with a little longer time spent in the canter. Once they get very good at that transition, then you can bring back the side reins, but spend most of the time with them at a walk. Encourage the horse to use the side reins to his benefit. Not to be there forcing him to bend, because he won't be able to, and not forcing him into a stupid frame. He needs to figure it out on his own.. but first you need him to be able to "canter" on cue, liberally on the lunge.

Once you have really nice walk work in the side reins, move up to a trot, once he's got that covered, then move up to those canter transitions again. 

A few words of advice, an unbalanced horse NEEDS support. They cannot hold themselves up as they haven't got the muscle. You need to HELP them, but not let them just lean on you. As in the saddle, you encourage them to move out, to stretch, to use their hind. On the lunge line, they may lean on the lungeline, I like to soften it and release once the horse stops leaning. It works great, and eventually they don't need an intense amount of support from you and they'll learn to carry themselves.

Once they can carry themselves, then you spend more time at the canter, but knowing when not to push them too far. I didn't start asking for a canter unsaddle until my horse was a professional (I kid.. but he was very good) at moving into a correct lead canter, without leaning or pulling or bracing. Then under saddle, I gave him his head and let him move out.

It takes time.. but don't taught the side reins down. Keep them at a sensible length. It helps to have an equine professional/instructor that can help you figure that out. But greenies always need a longer side rein, the more advanced they get in ability to use their back and streeetch, then you can begin to change the setting.


~~~

Now looking at your picture, if your horse decides to counter bend throughout their spine, add pressure to their hip, move them away from you. You're in the center of the circle, so you need to draw in your leading hand and push more with your driving hand/whip. Sometimes it helps to soften that lungeline until they quit counterbending. The more you let them get away with it, they probably start to think that's what they should be doing. 

If you have trouble with lunging, find someone experienced to help you.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

If your side reins are causing counter-bend, then you have them too tight for the horse's training level. They should be loose enough that the horse can bend slightly to both sides.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> If your side reins are causing counter-bend, then you have them too tight for the horse's training level. They should be loose enough that the horse can bend slightly to both sides.


Not only that, but if a horse has one side of them stiffer than the other (usually the case in 98% of horses) then they find it easier to bend that direction, than their other direction. So they need a little more support and encouragement and direction to stretch out and 'turn on' that side.

Out of the lungeline, maybe riding, flex her to her stiffer side. So if the picture is accurate of your horse, flex her to the left by softening that rein only. Do some carrot stretches to the left (slowly) and under saddle, do some nice bendy serpentines, spending more time on his stiffer side. Massage that stiffer side.. do anything you can to help your horse out.

It also helps to find a chiropractor or a equine masseuse or even a saddle fitter to see if she's got any "stuck" parts.


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

So I tried the bridle, and tried feeding the lunge over the top of his head so that I have more imput when he pulls.

I'm now able to get the canter ... although I'm sure to anyone watching me I must look rather stupid because the first couple times I'd cue he wouldn't do anything but a power trot, so I ended up kinda chasing him at first  I'd cue verbally, flick the lunge whip, and then as a last resort take a few running steps after him... So now he's starting to get into the canter. But he's doesn't hold it for even a full circle. 

Judging from what I've read, I'm thinking it might be a combination of his not having the muscle yet, and also he's still pulling - although I'm trying to correct it - and he's beginning to lighten up.

I ended up stealing the surcingle off my driving harness and just looping the reins from the bridle over the hook that's intended for the baring strap. They were very loose and so had no real impact on him except that the hook kept them from falling.

I'm still having issues with his pulling though. I'm not sure if it's something that will "fix itself", as I know when he his the end in the bridle it tugs on his mouth and causes discomfort - and I noticed that at the trot he was making an effort to stay off the end. But at the canter it's like he doesn't know how to turn that tight. 

I've tried pulling him back towards me with a couple quick tugs to make it uncomfortable to be pulling on me, but it's a slow process. Anyone know any more efficient ways to quit the pulling?


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## KSAQHA (Mar 22, 2010)

PerchiesKisses said:


> ...I'm now able to get the canter ... although I'm sure to anyone watching me I must look rather stupid because the first couple times I'd cue he wouldn't do anything but a power trot, so I ended up kinda chasing him at first  I'd cue verbally, flick the lunge whip, and then as a last resort take a few running steps after him... So now he's starting to get into the canter. But he's doesn't hold it for even a full circle...
> 
> I'm still having issues with his pulling though. I'm not sure if it's something that will "fix itself", as I know when he his the end in the bridle it tugs on his mouth and causes discomfort - and I noticed that at the trot he was making an effort to stay off the end. But at the canter it's like he doesn't know how to turn that tight.
> 
> I've tried pulling him back towards me with a couple quick tugs to make it uncomfortable to be pulling on me, but it's a slow process. Anyone know any more efficient ways to quit the pulling?


Sounds like you're on the right track, but instead of bumping him in the mouth while wearing a bit, I'd go back to a rope halter w/knots on the noseband. Quick bumps/tugs EVERY time he gets heavy or pulls...and it may take SEVERAL sessions of this...at the walk and trot. Eventually, he will get softer and keep his nose tipped towards the inside of the circle...I promise. :wink:

Here's what I do with a canter newbie for maintaining the canter for more than a few strides, after they've initially learned to pick it up from consistent verbal/whip cues. As soon as they do pick it up (correct lead, please) I slap the ground with the lunge whip (at an angle out behind the hindquarters) and kiss in a 3-beat rhythm with the gait. For example, slap and kiss each time the lead (inside) leg is coming down...1...2...3...
This is hard to explain in writing, but the rhythm seems to keep the momentum going. Once they get the hang of it, I discontinue the slapping.

I seldom ask for much cantering/loping on the lunge, but I do want to be the one determining the speed/duration when I do.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

PerchiesKisses said:


> I'm still having issues with his pulling though. I'm not sure if it's something that will "fix itself", as I know when he his the end in the bridle it tugs on his mouth and causes discomfort - and I noticed that at the trot he was making an effort to stay off the end. But at the canter it's like he doesn't know how to turn that tight.
> 
> I've tried pulling him back towards me with a couple quick tugs to make it uncomfortable to be pulling on me, but it's a slow process. Anyone know any more efficient ways to quit the pulling?


Is it like he's flicking his head and throwing your weight around or is it leaning or what?

If he's flicking his head and being a jerk, then push him forward and hold your ground. Don't let him pull you around.

Now if it's leaning or something similar, he may have balance issues and need more SUPPORT. A green horse, or a horse out of work, needs to learn to BALANCE at the canter. They need to build those muscles, so when you start lunging the canter, they're going to feel HEAVY. You need to encourage the horse to hold themselves up by softening the lungeline and pushing them forward, and giving them slack once they stop leaning even for a second.

Stay in the bridle, or you could go to one of those halters with lunging rings (not a surcingle but that other thing I can never remember the name of..) yes it'll look ugly... but don't tug on the lungeline. Soften. Vibrate it to his rhythm, squeeze it like a sponge in his rhythm. Just like half halts on his back as English riders do.

It's not his fault he can't balance himself yet. You need to help him.. not punish him.


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

He's not yanking on me, but he does lean on me.... being an ex racehorse - and still in pretty good shape - he may need some more stretching and flexibility. I think the source of the issue is where I'm working. I have to work in the stable yard (only place big enough and flat enough to lunge) but the drawback is that everytime he rounds into the direction where theorietically if he was loose he could just run out and join his buddies, THAT's where he pulls and leans on me. Once he passes that spot he goes back to being nice and light.

I have rope halters, but none with knots in the nose.... note to self - ebay  ... or could probably tie bailing twine into them ... hmmm... ideas.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

PerchiesKisses said:


> He's not yanking on me, but he does lean on me.... being an ex racehorse - and still in pretty good shape - he may need some more stretching and flexibility. I think the source of the issue is where I'm working.


Then my advice to you is soften that lungeline until he quite leaning. Eventually he will, it'll just take a lot of repeating. My horse had the opposite problem. He'd come into me when he passed the mounting block. I'd just push him further into the corner and let up when he stayed put.

I think no matter what you work him in, it's going to be a problem until you address the issue firsthand.

Good luck.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

How big is the circle you are lunging him on? Maybe let him out a few more feet - he could be not balanced enough to hold that small a circle on his own yet.


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## MoeMoe (May 27, 2011)

Dudes, race horses, don't know how to be lunged effectively, not in any way that is used other to warm them up maybe. They can't do it well, and have impossible transitions at first. It takes a long time. Honestly, the easiest way to fix the problem, is go into a round pen, put him in a saddle, then just a halter, clip the lead line to the halter, stand in the center of the round pen, and keep just enough slack in the lung line, then make him do his thing, you won't have to fight with him on the lunge line. DO this, A LOT of times, I mean, a lot, but not every day, you'll hurt him. He will eventually get better. Every now and then ask him to tip his nose in or something, so he knows he is expected to give to the pull. This is just my experience though, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm lunging him on a standard lunge line... I think it's about twenty feet, and I get down to about three quarters of the lunge line when asking for the canter.

From experience, I think a round pen would be the easiest solution, but unfortunately not one I can utilize as we don't have one. 

Gonna try him again today... Don't think i'm overdoing it too much cuz we work on lunging just three times a week.. Although the last few times he's come back sweaty. Lol. I make sure to set a stopwatch and keep the lesson no more than thirty minutes max.
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