# Pelham versus slow twist snaffle?



## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

My sticky on bits in the Tack and Equipment section might explain my position since I'm on my phone and typing isn't the easiest. I prefer smooth-mouthed bits, hands down. I actually like the pelham as a bit - you can ride on the snaffle rein 99% of the time, and engage the curb only when it's needed. Especially with English disciplines where contact is a must, I don't like bits with textured mouthpieces; the texture is designed to work on a more concentrated pressure point, and really works off a harsher feel for the horse. 
Personally, I use smooth mouthpieces - if the horse suggests that something isn't working, I go back and find the hole in the training.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> My sticky on bits in the Tack and Equipment section might explain my position since I'm on my phone and typing isn't the easiest. I prefer smooth-mouthed bits, hands down. I actually like the pelham as a bit - you can ride on the snaffle rein 99% of the time, and engage the curb only when it's needed. Especially with English disciplines where contact is a must, I don't like bits with textured mouthpieces; the texture is designed to work on a more concentrated pressure point, and really works off a harsher feel for the horse.
> Personally, I use smooth mouthpieces - if the horse suggests that something isn't working, I go back and find the hole in the training.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks! That's kind of what I thought about the pelham too, I ride on the snaffle rein 99% of the time anyway and if she's still being her bull headed self and leaning on it, I just ask her a little with the curb and she complies! But for whatever reason, there are some negative views around using the pelham that some people have, saying it's much too harsh a bit. I am in agreement with you though...if I could just ride her in the snaffle I would, and that's what we're trying to get towards, but for now I'd rather have that extra oomph of an ask when I need it versus yanking on her mouth to get the idea across in the plain old snaffle!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> but sometimes I get negative remarks from people who only ride in snaffles with their horses.


These types of people are the types you smile and nod at.

If they think the D ring (or loose ring or whatever) is any indication of what is inside the mouth they are mistaken. 


I agree with JDI.

Pelhams are great bits.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Here's a photo of the pelham I use currently...










And the snaffle...


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Alwaysbehind said:


> These types of people are the types you smile and nod at.
> 
> If they think the D ring (or loose ring or whatever) is any indication of what is inside the mouth they are mistaken.
> 
> ...


Thanks AB! Well it's not random people who say it ever, it's actually friends of mine. Their views are just that it's too harsh a bit. I don't agree and neither does my trainer, but it makes me feel bad when they say things to me, as if I don't care about hurting my pony (the LAST thing I'd ever want to do!!) To me, I can be SO much lighter with the pelham and "ask" her far less, versus the snaffle. Now the trouble is that I can't use the pelham in dressage so I'm going to need to eventually get her working in a plain snaffle...but for now I think the pelham is a great training tool for sure. 

But has anyone had any experience with a hard-mouthed "leaner" before and what *dressage-legal bit* has helped the most?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Your pelham acts like a snaffle much of the time.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

Yes it does, I suppose that's a good thing, huh?!  But I do find that I have to "ask" her with the curb several times before she really gets the idea and gives to the bit. Maybe I should just warm up in the pelham and then switch to the snaffle for dressage!!  Then maybe it would take me 15 mins to warm up rather than 45 so she isn't utterly exhausted when we get into the arena!! 

Weird question...are there any dressage-legal bits that you could attach a curb rein to for warmup and then just remove that rein for the arena? Or am I pretty much going to need to switch the whole bit out?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

If you feel that you REALLY need the curb action, you could try a Buacher. They are dressage legal in Australia, a recent addition, not sure about O/S though. 
Bauchers are often used as a stepping stone to get a horse used to a double without two bits. Rather than using two reins, the bit has an extra ring above the snaffle ring, which connects to the bridle. This creates slight poll pressure each time the rein is taken. 
In saying this, I do think they are overused here now as the 'latest fashion' to get quick results. I know a girl that I used to teach has resorted to using a baucher on her mare as a quick fix/bandaid, I don't agree with this. 
I have also seen bauchers used with a weymouth, again, very harsh and totally not needed.

BUT, if you have good, quiet hands and an excellent sense of timing for when to release pressure, then a baucher may be worth a go.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Sorry, Kayty, I have to disagree - there is no poll action on the Baucher. There is only one fixed point, not two, so there is nothing for the bit to get any sort of leverage on. It's more like a full cheek with bit keepers in that the upper, fixed ring is to keep the bit at the proper angle. 
As for a heavy horse - back to basics and how to get off the forehand, sadly. Bits may make a horse evade backwards away from pressure, but that's not what you want - you want contact with self carriage.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_HITS...I switched to the Pelham as well because I felt like I was giving everything I had with legs and felt like I had a ton in my hand on the french link, and wouldn't get a response. Horse is so much softer in the Pelham._

_If this is the bit that works for you and Sandie, don't worry about what the others say. They do not ride her, and didn't feel how much pressure you were having to ask with before or now._


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> Sorry, Kayty, I have to disagree - there is no poll action on the Baucher. There is only one fixed point, not two, so there is nothing for the bit to get any sort of leverage on. It's more like a full cheek with bit keepers in that the upper, fixed ring is to keep the bit at the proper angle.
> As for a heavy horse - back to basics and how to get off the forehand, sadly. Bits may make a horse evade backwards away from pressure, but that's not what you want - you want contact with self carriage.


I do believe that there is slight poll pressure with this bit, I was recommended its use for one of my horses by one of Australia's top dressage riders during a clinic because of this action, and spoke to the owner of 'bit bank australia' who also described its action as using slight poll pressure. When the rein is pulled back/more contact taken against the snaffle ring, this pushes the connector ring slightly towards the front of the horse's head, which applies mild poll pressure due to being connected to the cheek pieces, which in turn run over the horse's poll.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I used a boucher once recently but saw no real difference from my french link.

velvets I wish I could ride her in that pelham all the time but no go for dressage! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

Hoofprints, I wouldn't feel too bad about using a pelham. It is worlds better than a kimberwicke, and from my personal experience, the curb may not even be very necessary if the horse knows that it is there. When I ride my pony, I always carry a dressage whip... but very rarely use it much at all. She knows I have it if I need it, so she moves out.

My mom and I have recently progressed with our warmblood mare in her dressage training to the point that we have begun to utilize the double bridle, which is essentially a pelham in two separate pieces. We are still learning to use the double bridle effectively and responsibly... and honestly I have frequently ridden with the curb rein completely slack... but I am still surprised at how light and responsive our warmblood has become with the curb merely being there.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

With all the expert opinions around you will always find someone to agree and disagree with your particular choice of bit.

The most important voice in all the shouting is that of your horse, if you can truly say that you have found something that suits both your horse and you, and gives you great communication in the softest possible way, then who cares what anyone else says. Just smile politely and say "It works for us" 

Personally I like pelhams, I'm even enough of a philistine to like pelhams with a joiner so I can ride with one rein...........yes I know I lose finesse etc etc, but G Man and I get on OK with it.

Choosing a bit for dressage is a minefield, when I converted Mr G to English I started riding him in a French Link Eggbutt, only to find that while the French Link was OK up here, it had to be a loose ring not an Eggbutt, and he hated the loose ring, so does my mare:twisted: I ended up buying Myler snaffles for them which was better, but then had to change from my plain cavesson, to a flash noseband to try and get back to where we were.


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

I've heard the term Myler, what's the real difference between your run of the mill snaffle and those?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

The Myler bits, IMO, are fantastic. They will not collapse inwards, eliminating any sort of nutcracker effect. Due to the barrel, each side moves completely independently from the other - you can spin one cheekpiece completely around 360* and it will not affect the other side of the bit. They're a bit thinner than some other bits on the market, which some horses do prefer. They also have copper inlay, encouraging salivation.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

As well as the benefits that JDI lists, and I bought my first one simply because it was dressage legal, not loose ring and no nutcracker action, the shape of the mouthpiece also gives plenty of tongue room, especially for my small mouthed but thick tounged Haffies


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## Hoofprints in the Sand (Nov 23, 2008)

So which myler do you think would be best fit my girl who goes well in her pelham but hangs hard on regular french link or single jointed snaffles? I've tried eggbutt and dee ring...
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## DejaVu (Jul 6, 2011)

I would stick with your Pelham. 

You're using it correctly how it is- a temporary training tool. The optional leverage is there when you need it, until she fully learns lightness in a snaffle at all times. Just work on slowly weaning her off the curb rein, and focus on the snaffle rein more.
I want all my horses in a snaffle. But if one is really not understanding a headset with just a snaffle, I don't object to using a bit with optional leverage, like a pelham or elevator, to lighten them up a bit, then work them back to the snaffle.


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## DejaVu (Jul 6, 2011)

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> So which myler do you think would be best fit my girl who goes well in her pelham but hangs hard on regular french link or single jointed snaffles? I've tried eggbutt and dee ring...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know that question wasn't directed towards me, but I suggest this one.
http://http://toklat.com/dyn_prod.php?p=89-26045&k=88090

Last weekend I drove a couple hours out to the nearest tack store, and I wasn't even needing a new bit, but this one caught my eye. I loved the look and feel if it SO much. I seriously almost bought it, just to have it around.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't ride in a Pelham , and don't have any personal opinion pro or can about them, but this discussion reminded me of a book I checked out from the library and read some years ago by Heather Moffet, who is very pro Pelham bits.
Actually, the whole book was really interesting and had some neat info in it


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