# obama has lifted the ban on horse slaughter



## KatRocks

Does anyone have more information on this? I don't know how I feel about this, on one hand it infuriates me and on the other it could be beneficial. I don't understand anything about horses slaughter laws or facilities. Could someone enlighten me?
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## Speed Racer

There is no federal ban on horse slaughter, and never has been. Except for several states which have made it illegal to slaughter horses within their borders, there has never been a USA-wide ban on equine slaughter.

The only thing that happened was the funding for USDA inspectors was canceled and the plants subsequently closed down, because without USDA inspection the meat couldn't be approved for human consumption.

If Obama has now reinstated the funds for USDA inspection, that's a step in the right direction IMHO.


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## KatRocks

What about equine slaughter for non human consumption... eg... dog food, glue.. ? Im so clueless about that whole industry and what's happened over the last few years, I can't find anything to explain it to me in layman's terms.
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## Speed Racer

Horse meat hasn't been used in dog food since the 1980s, and zoos and big cat sanctuaries have their own processing facilities. As far as rendering the already dead carcasses, that's another industry entirely. 

Since the commercial slaughter plants were closed down, unless you take the horses to private slaughter houses, there are no US places in operation at the moment that handle horses.


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## KatRocks

What was the reason funding for the inspectors was pulled? Was it to placate the public? Was it a question of humane slaughtering? What will happen now? What actually happens at slaughter houses? Is there some sort of overseeing body that will make sure these facilities will operate within the law? What is the law regarding how equines should be slaughter? Sorry for the 20 20
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## Speed Racer

The funding was pulled because the RARAs (rabid animal rights activists) were annoying the Powers That Be, and they decided to put a band-aid on the issue hoping they'd shut up and go away. 

Since 'the public' has been so long off farms and don't realize that food doesn't originally come shrink wrapped, they fell for the bunk the RARAs were spouting. People don't tend to think logically, they're very easily emotionally manipulated.

If you eat any kind of meat and utilize leather, you_ approve_ of the slaughter industry. Claiming horses are 'more deserving' and 'better' than other livestock doesn't make it so, and it's anthropomorphizing at its worst.

The only thing closing the plants did was insure that the horses now have longer rides to Canada and Mexico, and are out of US jurisdiction. 

There are already laws on the books regarding how slaughter animals are to be treated. The USDA inspectors aren't just there to look at the meat once it's processed, they oversee the whole operation. That's why the funding being stopped had such catastrophic results for the horse industry. Add to that the economy tanking, and the bottom fell out of the horse market.

You have to be able to set a bottom dollar price on animals, and the slaughter industry did that. It still does it for other livestock, just not horses at the moment. 

I'm for the humane slaughter of ALL livestock, not just horses. It's not a one dimensional problem, and anyone who only thinks in black and white will never understand that there are sixty million shades of gray when it comes to something like this.


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## KatRocks

Thank you for clarifying all this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## texasgal

I'm sure OBAMA thinks he lifted the ban ........


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## Celeste

Obama is a politician.
He signed that in theory, the USDA could use funds to inspect horses.
Then, he didn't provide the funds. 
So everybody is happy. The pro-slaughter people love him. The anti-slaughter people love him. Brilliant move for sure.


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## Joe4d

wernt the plants being shut down or going out of business already ? I am thinking funding was pulled as there just wasnt that many inspections to be made. This industry moved south for the same reason everything else has. Cheap labor and no environmental or liability laws.


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## bsms

The funding was pulled as an easy way to stop slaughter. It was restored over Obama's objection, but it was placed in a huge funding bill that would have caused big problems if vetoed. So he signed it.

I doubt more than 1 in 10 politicians in DC understand anything about the implications of slaughtering horses. In fact, the number may be more like 1/100. Politicians understand cities. That is where the votes are.


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## mls

Joe4d said:


> wernt the plants being shut down or going out of business already ? I am thinking funding was pulled as there just wasnt that many inspections to be made. This industry moved south for the same reason everything else has. Cheap labor and no environmental or liability laws.











Wrong.

The plants were busy. The Illinois plant handled about 1,000 horses A WEEK. There were farms that fed horses out the same way cattle farmers have feedlots.

It's more expensive to ship out of the country.

As Speedracer said, it was a public pressure situation.


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## trampis67

The President doesn't decide the funding. Funding for federal programs is laid out by the U.S. House of Representatives.


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## KatRocks

So.. the president signed a bill providing funding to USDA inspectors but congress hasn't yay or nay ed the bill yet?
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## JumpingPaints

Funding was pulled because of the incontrovertible evidence of routine abuse and suffering in the horse slaughter pipeline. Has nothing to do with "animal rights activists," but nice try. In addition, the fact that surveys show 70 to 80% of the population (including 71% of horse owners) opposed to horse slaughter makes most politicians who are NOT in the pockets of Big Ag take notice.

It is also **finally** being tied to incentivizing lottery-style breeding and hoarding, both of which create problems for equine welfare. Slaughter is bad for horses, bad for the equine industry and causes inexcusable suffering to horses.


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## bsms

Death is never pretty. Not for humans, nor horses nor cattle. My Mom's death was by choking at breakfast followed by a heart attack at 85. I'm sure it wasn't pretty, clean, quick or painless.

Most of the US population lives in cities. Most have never killed an animal they ate. Most are hopelessly clueless about anything involving animal life outside of bars.

The problem isn't breeders breeding without a market. The problem is the 'product' can live 25-35 years, and a horse bred when the market is good will still be alive when the market sucks.

The problem is with owners who buy horses and throw them away a few years later. My little free mustang is a good trail pony (13 hands). He can do nothing for a month, then take an adult out on a 2-3 hour trail ride as if he was being ridden daily. He's an easy keeper and loves attention. The instructor I was taking lessons from could also count at least 6 owners that she knew of in his 14 year life. Buy pony. Daughter grows. Sell pony. We don't need a third horse, which is why I know he can go without riding for a month and then behave well...but if our finances allow, we'll keep him. Maybe for 20 years.










But we're the exception, which is why we are at least his 7th owner, not counting the BLM. Lord willing, we'll be his last.

Slaughter isn't pretty. Shipping to Mexico for slaughter there is worse. Dumping in the desert to be eaten alive by coyotes is even worse. And there are plenty of people who will do that. One of my 3 dogs is a German Shepherd who had that happen to him...loving, sweet, adores people, and dumped in the desert to die. :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## buckinhard

The E.U. european Union , which controls the horse meat from Canada and Mexico will no longer be accepting US horse meat as of 2013. There will be no need for US to slaughter horses for human consumption. The reason is US horses have been medication with drugs that either have no withdrawal time, or and extended withdrawal time. Drugs that have no withdrawal time used commonly in US horses is Bute, clenbuterol, furacin and others. The E.U. has placed a requirement for any US horse to have a passport like the european horses have, a passport is a document that follows the US horse from birth to slaughter, documenting any and all drugs, vaccines, wormers, pain meds, tranquilizer, even fly spray. The slaughter for equines in the US due to the state and local governments were experiencing horrible filth, tainted water, tainted air and an increase in crime. Horse slaughter for human consumption provides just a few jobs and mostly immigrants. The lack of slaughter in the US has reduced the number of stolen horses. The horses that end up in Mexico are brutally stabbed with a pointed knife called a puntilla method, it's horrible cruel, bloody and causes the horses to be fearful as they hear their fellow horses screaming in pain. California, in 1997, passed a law prohibiting any transaction where one would buy, sell give away, take and transport any equine for slaughter. Although the kill buyers still sneak and aquire horses using various tactics, it is illegal in Ca. There was a recent Texas Senate hearing on horse slaughter in their state, one speaker, Jerry Finch from Habitat for Horses, gave a testimony presenting this issue with facts and numbers. I suggest, if you or anyone else is interested in know the factual truth, look it up or join facebook and look up horse slaughter.The pro slaughter people spin the facts and want to feed the meat to school children and prisoners... truth !


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## AlexS

JumpingPaints said:


> In addition, the fact that surveys show 70 to 80% of the population (including 71% of horse owners) opposed to horse slaughter makes most politicians who are NOT in the pockets of Big Ag take notice.


I completely disagree with this. All of the horse forums that I am part of, and they are all the big ones - the majority of posters agree with horse slaughter. That doesn't mean we are off slitting our horses throats, it means that we see it as a necessary evil.


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## JumpingPaints

bsms said:


> Slaughter isn't pretty. Shipping to Mexico for slaughter there is worse. Dumping in the desert to be eaten alive by coyotes is even worse. And there are plenty of people who will do that. One of my 3 dogs is a German Shepherd who had that happen to him...loving, sweet, adores people, and dumped in the desert to die. :evil: :evil: :evil:


Slaughter definitely isn't pretty, and was just as ugly when American plants were open and the same abusive American kill buyers were shipping a slightly shorter distances to TX and IL, and still shipping 10K+ horses a year out of the country. 28% injury rate after 12 hours in an unsegregated trailer based on a study of slaughterbound horses. When American plants were open they were still traveling long periods; sometimes days as KBs went from auction to auction to fill up (in that economy there wasn't as much supply).

Also agree it's not nice for horses to starve in the desert. Unfortunately, the largest mass desert abandonment traced back to kill buyers. They were routinely dumping horses rejected at the Mexican border in the TX desert. A great little scam until helicopters noticed green slaughter tags. At that point it was estimated the slaughter industry had dumped about 5,000 horses in the desert.

Fascinating when you realize an industry actually causes the problems it purports to solve. Mystery Surrounding Abandoned Horses Finally Solved


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## JumpingPaints

AlexS said:


> I completely disagree with this. All of the horse forums that I am part of, and they are all the big ones - the majority of posters agree with horse slaughter. That doesn't mean we are off slitting our horses throats, it means that we see it as a necessary evil.


You can disagree all you like. These were scientifically conducted polls to eliminate bias. The problem with the online forums is PSAs (pro slaughter activists) have a tendency to be bullies and ignore the facts about slaughter. So rational people don't participate.


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## AlexS

JumpingPaints said:


> You can disagree all you like. These were scientifically conducted polls to eliminate bias. The problem with the online forums is PSAs (pro slaughter activists) have a tendency to be bullies and ignore the facts about slaughter. So rational people don't participate.


Can you provide some statistics to back up your point? Legitimate studies, not PETA. 

I would suggest that the pro lifers are also equal bullies. And so those on the pro slaughter side don't speak up in equal amounts - but as there are no studies that can speak to those who don't speak up lets keep to facts.


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## bsms

"Slaughter definitely isn't pretty, and was just as ugly when American plants were open..."

Nope. No comparison between US plants and Mexican.

I live 60 miles from the Mexican border. I'd rather take my chances on a business that tries dumping horses (and can be fined out of business) than on individuals.

As for polls...I can find polls saying most Americans believe Obama was born in Kenya. I'm somewhere to the right of Rush Limbaugh politically, but no number of people saying Obama was born in Kenya will make it true. Ask a bunch of city folks "Should the noble horses of America be ruthlessly tortured and slaughtered to feed the French?", and the answer will be no.

Polling ignorance reveals what ignorant people feel, not what a thinking person concludes.


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## JumpingPaints

bsms said:


> As for polls...I can find polls saying most Americans believe Obama was born in Kenya. I'm somewhere to the right of Rush Limbaugh politically, but no number of people saying Obama was born in Kenya will make it true. Ask a bunch of city folks "Should the noble horses of America be ruthlessly tortured and slaughtered to feed the French?", and the answer will be no.
> 
> Polling ignorance reveals what ignorant people feel, not what a thinking person concludes.


Actually, for those of us who work in statistics, polls can be structured scientifically to prevent bias. The results from the example you could only be achieved using a selective sample, which would render the results unscientific. Lots of folks like to conduct amateur polls and claim the results worthy, but they simply aren't valid and you won't see them reported by legitimate media organizations.

The poll I'm referring to was done by a national research firm, Lake Research Partners. The results were consistent across geographic and political boundaries, age and gender. I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to the very blatant horse eater bias on this forum (which I was duly warned about). My hope is there are some lurkers interested in real facts and information.


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## JumpingPaints

bsms said:


> "Slaughter definitely isn't pretty, and was just as ugly when American plants were open..."
> 
> Nope. No comparison between US plants and Mexican.


Facts be a pesky thing. See the plants US horses have always gone to for decades in Mexico (and I'm betting you didn't care about that until the US plants were shut) use only approved EU processes. Yep, the very same captive bolt process used in American plants. There's almost no difference between American and Mexican / Canadian processing. The vast majority of the abuse and suffering occurs in transit, at the hands of American kill buyers.

The video of the Mexican plants using puntilla knives were municipal plants that kill Mexican stock for cafeterias. Those are truly horrific, but we in America can't do anything about that.


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## bsms

Polling stupid or ignorant people merely tells you what stupid or ignorant people feel. It does NOT tell anyone what a thinking person should think.

Most Americans don't know the difference between the front and rear end of a horse, which may be why we send so many rear ends to Washington.

So...what are YOU suggesting we do with unwanted horses? All the charities are packed to the gills where I live. I've got one more than I ride and can't afford to feed any more horses just for fun. Your solution is...?


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## bsms

JumpingPaints said:


> ...See the plants US horses have always gone to for decades in Mexico (and I'm betting you didn't care about that until the US plants were shut) use only approved EU processes. Yep, the very same captive bolt process used in American plants...


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't have believed that when I was 20, and the earth has gone around the sun a number of times since I was 20...


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## KatRocks

Is there any place to get information that isn't funded by the industry or those against it? Both sides can provide "facts" disproving the others "facts" and this could go on forever. Or possibly could those who provide facts provide links siteing the info?
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## hemms

Amusing that Euope has decided to close its doors to US horses due to the very same medicinal practices that we in Canada use... 

I am one that is pro slaughter, as a necesary evil, and I hope for the day that humane plants are established for all livestock. I stock the freezer with our own meat (hunting) and local farmed meat whenever I can. Not only does it taste phenomenally better, but I know I'm supporting something wholesome for my family's health, another family's and that of the animals we're eating.


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## Chiilaa

JumpingPaints said:


> I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to the very blatant horse eater bias on this forum (which I was duly warned about).


I don't eat horse. It's legal here where I live, and a few select butchers sell it. But I don't eat it. However, I am still pro-slaughter. Show me evidence that has been collected, don't spout "facts" that are not supported by empirical data. Give me a link to the study, don't tell me who did it. Any scientific paper doesn't just include an in-text reference, they have an end text so that interested parties can check their information. You want us to believe you? This is how you do it.


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## goneriding

Horses are flight animals, how can they be humanely slaughtered?


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## Chiilaa

goneriding said:


> Horses are flight animals, how can they be humanely slaughtered?


In a situation where they aren't feeling threatened, and as close to instantly as humanly possible. Their flight instinct isn't a worry if they don't see it coming.


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## Speed Racer

JumpingPaints said:


> I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to the very blatant horse eater bias on this forum (which I was duly warned about.)


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl::rofl:

Oh my, HORSE EATER BIAS!!!! You wuz warned, but yer sooo brave to come here and insult people with your not-so-subtle accusations that anyone who doesn't think like you is a horse hater! :?

I know from which forum you've come, and interestingly enough, the majority of horse owners over there are ALSO pro. In fact, every horse BB of which I've ever been a member or visited as a guest, the majority are pro-slaughter. So I'd really like to know where this supposedly 70% majority of horse owners who are antis are posting. 

The problem I have with most of the antis is that they want to deny _other _people the right to do with their horses as they please. They don't want anyone telling them what they can do with their _own_ horses, but want to take away a legal outlet for disposing of unwanted animals. They also don't have solutions for the unwanted horse problem, but who cares? What THEY want is all that matters, and anyone who thinks differently must be a horse hating, abusive Neanderthal. 

The hubris and outright arrogance simply astound me. :-x


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## Celeste

"In a situation where they aren't feeling threatened, and as close to instantly as humanly possible. Their flight instinct isn't a worry if they don't see it coming."


But they do see it coming.


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## Chiilaa

Celeste said:


> "In a situation where they aren't feeling threatened, and as close to instantly as humanly possible. Their flight instinct isn't a worry if they don't see it coming."
> 
> 
> But they do see it coming.


Maybe the regulations are different over there. In Australia, horses are not allowed to see a dead horse or a horse being euthed in a slaughterhouse IIRC.


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## Speed Racer

So do cattle, and they're flight animals as well. 

So do pigs, and they're far more intelligent than horses, which means they have a better idea out of all the other livestock what is happening.


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## Failbhe

Speed Racer said:


> So do cattle, and they're flight animals as well.
> 
> So do pigs, and they're far more intelligent than horses, which means they have a better idea out of all the other livestock what is happening.


You took the words right out of my mouth, SR. 

OP, I too would love to see unbiased research and facts - however, on this incredibly emotionally charged issue, I'm not sure they exist.


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## bsms

I have no horse eater bias. I have no desire to eat horses. I don't make a penny off of horse slaughter. I also don't see any alternative that seems better than allowing US plants to slaughter under US regulators.

I'm still waiting for the anti-slaughter folks to come up with a retirement home for horses the size of Oklahoma, where all horses are allowed to live to old age and die with 'dignity'.


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## Speed Racer

bsms said:


> I'm still waiting for the anti-slaughter folks to come up with a retirement home for horses the size of Oklahoma, where all horses are allowed to live to old age and die with 'dignity'.


As long as someone _else_ funds it, I'm sure they'd be all for it. :wink:


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## Saddlebag

The RARA show pics of horses kicking and say they are being slaughtered alive. Those are death throes and it happens in all animals that die suddenly. The horses are brain dead and are not consciously fighting. We all saw that with Hickstead when he blew his main aorta. I'm surprised no one has claimed an assassin shot him to collect insurance or some other cockamamie tale.


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## Silent one

JumpingPaints,

I'm just real curious. Can you tell me the "statistics" of how many of the unwanted horses that you have taken in and kept and/or rehomed since the slaughter houses closed down? As in. 

How many have you personally taken in from the Humane Society or a horse rescue facility?

How many horses that you saw in an auction that were in trouble have you purchased and brought home?

How many of these horses that you have taken in have been rehomed successfully (not sold, I mean rehomed and you keep up with them)?

How many of these horses that you have taken in have you kept?


Then I would like to hear out of us "horse haters and eaters" some or all of the same answers.


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## AlexS

JumpingPaints said:


> I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to the very blatant horse eater bias on this forum (which I was duly warned about).


And with that statement I realize my stupidity in responding to this conversation. 
I am pro choice on the human abortion issue too, I suppose I should get on with making my baby stew for dinner!


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## Speed Racer

AlexS said:


> I am pro choice on the human abortion issue too, I suppose I should get on with making my baby stew for dinner!


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I prefer mine fricasseed, and served with a nice Chianti. FFFFFTTTTHHHH!!! :twisted:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Silent one said:


> JumpingPaints,
> 
> I'm just real curious. Can you tell me the "statistics" of how many of the unwanted horses that you have taken in and kept and/or rehomed since the slaughter houses closed down? As in.
> 
> How many have you personally taken in from the Humane Society or a horse rescue facility?
> 
> How many horses that you saw in an auction that were in trouble have you purchased and brought home?
> 
> How many of these horses that you have taken in have been rehomed successfully (not sold, I mean rehomed and you keep up with them)?
> 
> How many of these horses that you have taken in have you kept?
> 
> 
> Then I would like to hear out of us "horse haters and eaters" some or all of the same answers.


HERE is the real tell on the whole subject. The anti-slaughter peeps want us to keep our horses 'til death do us part' but when offered free horses to rescue, can't possibly take one or 6 or 20, but they expect the horse owners to absorb them all.

A friend of mine got sucked into a very no win (for him) situation. He loaned someone a bunch of money to pay off their back bill with a large name trainer so that the horses wouldn't be liened and shipped off to Mexico, which is what the trainer was threatening. The terms of the contract called for repayment within a year and the horses were moved to an uninvolved 3rd party location. 

This friend is not a horseman, doesn't own horses and didn't ever want to. A year and a half later, he owned 26 of them and had paid 18 months of very large board, farrier and vet bills for these horses. He ended up having to lien the horses and having to sell them. 

They ended up over here at my house so I could work with them and get the majority to accept a human, halter and lead and maybe even get a couple started. 

During this time, on Facebook, there were some really ugly anti-slaughter people going after anyone who admitted to breeding horses, whether it was on a large or small scale didn't matter. We all got abused. One of the nastiest asked why I bred and didn't rescue? LOL!!! I laughed and told her I had 25 rescues on my property right now and how many would she like and where should I deliver them? Of course, she couldn't possibly take a HORSE! For God's sake what was I thinking? 

Yeah, this HORSE EATER just hates 'em all.........


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## Corporal

We've had many threads on this topic, and I've read them all, and commented on many of them. All I can tell you is my observation. In 2007 I read about the IL plant closing. The horses going through IL auctions after the closing didn't have the "meat market" buying/shipping same day for quick slaughter. I've been to a few of these auctions and it breaks my heart to see crippled and sick horses that NOBODY bids on. I don't know what the auction houses do with them bc the owners disappear. (Maybe they sue, since you have to register for a number for each horse and provide a negative Coggins.) I won't go to watch, anymore. I bought many a decent horse from these auctions in the 1980's, so they aren't "heck-holes"(edit) of suffering.
Yes, butchering an animal isn't pretty. I keep and raise dule-duty chickens, and *I am one that does the butchering at my house.* My birds live a good life--except for the one rooster who died recently from the extreme July heat--not a mark on him. (Too bad--he would have weighed out at over 8 pounds.) I make the kill quick, so my birds don't suffer. IF the slaughterhouses were brutal, we would have gotten story after story about the abuse for many years, and we didn't. I used to talk to the meat market buyers, and they weren't monsters. I understand there is turnover, probably bc it is much harder to slaughter a horse than to slaughter a chicken. We have empathy for their intelligence.
*We can only do right with those things that we control--
our treatment of our OWN animals. * We can do nothing about those people who overbreed, or "backyard breeders" who don't understand genetics, and put animals on the market with flaws that limit their ability to be ridden or driven. We can do NOTHING about breeders who breed horses with bad temperaments that pass this on to their get bc of the "show horse qualities." Just $ in their eyes, and those horses suffer. We love/hate the racing industry that dumps a great many horses on the market bc they don't run fast enough. You add this terrible economy where well-meaning horse owners lose a job and cannot feed the horse they bought 4 years ago or more, and cannot find a home, even for free, and we have a LOT of unwanted horses in 2012. We NEED these slaughterhouses back and working.


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## eclipseranch

haha have to laugh..to think I was afraid of being bullied if I spoke my personal opinion..I just researched this issue for the last 3 hours..yep the old fashioned way at the local library. what I learned didn't surprise me at all and no amnt of sarcasm, bully tactics or strong words will change my beliefs and my vote counts just like every other registered voter. I know I don't have all the answers and I know I can't right all the wrongs in the world. This horse owner of both market horses & rescue horses is against the inhumane slaughter of horses. 
below is a brief article from the ASPCA on the issue if any one wants factual info from a reputable organization 
ASPCA | Horse Slaughter

have a great day everyone and may the sunshine in your corner of the world


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## Speed Racer

The ASPCA is hardly an unbiased source. I also don't consider an organization 'reputable' that puts commercials on TV and insinuates that if you donate to them you'll be helping animals in your community, because it's simply not true. None of the money donated goes to _any_ local shelters. If you want your local SPCA to get money or donations, better drive there and hand it to them, or they won't see one dime. 

The ASPCA is no more about taking care of abused/neglected/abandoned animals, than is PETA or HSUS.

As far as their 'facts', I didn't see any solutions posted, just more rhetoric. Yes, let's get the borders closed, because that won't cause MORE suffering. Oh wait, yes it will! That just means more animals abandoned because you've cut off the last pipeline for assisting with the problem.

When the antis can come up with_ realistic_, workable solutions, then I'll be more than happy to listen. If all you do is scream about stopping equine slaughter _without_ coming up with actual ways of taking care of the undesirable and unwanted animals, then you're not making any real contributions.


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## Corporal

I am willing to listen to a better, yet, affordable solution to the horse over-population problem we have. I read the article you linked, but their solution still sends these horses to be slaughtered...except it's in Mexico. That's a 3-5 day drive, and I doubt they are fed or watered on the way, like WE would if we we trailering OUR horses. YEARS ago, when the argument to close our horse slaughterhouses began, the proponents used this "3-5 days to Mexico" as their rallying cry, when it was 3-5 HOURS north to NW IL.
_Did I miss the *better* solution? _I would PREFER a better solution to ANY horse slaughter, however, I am almost 55yo, and I do miss things.
Animal overpopulation is a worldwide problem. There are counties in the USA that have figured out how to decrease dog populations by charging a small fee if you have neutered or spayed your dog, and charging >$300/year for registration of a dog intact. Those counties have very empty dog shelters, and are contributing to the solution. In other countries, they shoot dogs and often they die slowly in great pain.
I have followed this issue for almost 30 years. I believe that we horse-owners have a vested interest in what becomes of unwanted horses, and we cannot ignore suffering. PLEASE tell me about a better solution. I will be happy to consider ANYTHING that prevents animal suffering.


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## Celeste

In the town that my daughter lives in, there are areas of the town that have free spaying and neutering for dogs and cats. All other residents can get their pets spayed or neutered for almost next to nothing. Also state law requires all pets adopted from a shelter be spayed or neutered.

Yet there are huge numbers of pets abandoned in the streets or taken to the pound to be euthanized. The spay and neuter plan is not working.


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## Speed Racer

So what makes people think those types who won't spay/neuter their animals and who own horses would be any _more_ responsible about euthing their charges instead of turning them loose?

You can't MAKE people be responsible. They either will or won't be, which is why if the antis want slaughter made unavailable *they* need to come up with viable, realistic,_ workable_ solutions, not something predicated on MAKING people be responsible. 

I don't think it's asking too much by expecting the people who want to federally ban slaughter be responsible for coming up with a solution to all the unwanted horses. Those of us who aren't against it are not the problem; we already _have_ a solution, but the antis don't like it. So, the ball's in their court to come up with something else.


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## natisha

bsms said:


> I have no horse eater bias. I have no desire to eat horses. I don't make a penny off of horse slaughter. I also don't see any alternative that seems better than allowing US plants to slaughter under US regulators.
> 
> I'm still waiting for the anti-slaughter folks to come up with a retirement home for horses the size of Oklahoma, where all horses are allowed to live to old age and die with 'dignity'.


They don't need all that. All they need is an owner who says, "Not my horse".

I'm anti-slaughter-for my horses. I'd ***** myself if I had to, to give my horses a dignified, peaceful end at home.

We each need to be able to live with our decisions & for me personally, sending a horse off would add guilt to my grief. I know I'd get over the grief eventually but I'd never get over the guilt.


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## eclipseranch

Speed Racer said:


> The ASPCA is hardly an unbiased source. I also don't consider an organization 'reputable' that puts commercials on TV and insinuates that if you donate to them you'll be helping animals in your community, because it's simply not true. None of the money donated goes to _any_ local shelters. If you want your local SPCA to get money or donations, better drive there and hand it to them, or they won't see one dime.
> 
> The ASPCA is no more about taking care of abused/neglected/abandoned animals, than is PETA or HSUS.
> 
> As far as their 'facts', I didn't see any solutions posted, just more rhetoric. Yes, let's get the borders closed, because that won't cause MORE suffering. Oh wait, yes it will! That just means more animals abandoned because you've cut off the last pipeline for assisting with the problem.
> 
> When the antis can come up with_ realistic_, workable solutions, then I'll be more than happy to listen. If all you do is scream about stopping equine slaughter _without_ coming up with actual ways of taking care of the undesirable and unwanted animals, then you're not making any real contributions.


haha I'll tell my good friend that is a top level DVM for them!
I've started to wonder if you are tied to the slaughter houses & have a financial gain but no matter to me..you can talk to my hand as far as I am concerned your arguments against anyone & every organization who attempts to work for the safety & well being of animals is tiresome...the weather has finally broken so off I go to enjoy the majestic beasts that will live their last years with me God willing. great hearing from you


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## KatRocks

natisha said:


> They don't need all that. All they need is an owner who says, "Not my horse".
> 
> I'm anti-slaughter-for my horses. I'd ***** myself if I had to, to give my horses a dignified, peaceful end at home.
> 
> 
> We each need to be able to live with our decisions & for me personally, sending a horse off would add guilt to my grief. I know I'd get over the grief eventually but I'd never get over the guilt.


What about the thousands of horses that have no home? What would you suggest about that? Or even the horses that waste away because the owners neglect/don't care/can't pay ect... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha

KatRocks said:


> What about the thousands of horses that have no home? What would you suggest about that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unlike feral dogs & cats most horses born are the result of someone's hand. They came from somewhere. Not counting wild horses I don't know of any horses that weren't owned by someone at some time.
It comes down to personal responsibility. I don't tell anyone what to do with their own animals (well, yeah I do sometimes).


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## KatRocks

Doesn't really answer my question. Just like dogs and cats there are unwanted horses. I feel like "personal responsibility" is just passing the buck...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## natisha

KatRocks said:


> Doesn't really answer my question. Just like dogs and cats there are unwanted horses. I feel like "personal responsibility" is just passing the buck...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, lack of personal responsibility is passing the buck.
I take care of my own & won't be made to feel guilty for not taking on more than I can adequately care for. Personal responsibility.


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## Speed Racer

eclipseranch said:


> I've started to wonder if you are tied to the slaughter houses & have a financial gain.


Me? Nope, have no ties whatsoever to the slaughter industry, but nice try implying that you're morally superior to me because you think that people shouldn't have the right to legally do with their animals as they see fit.

My animals are with me for life as well, but unlike you, I don't feel the need to impose my will on others. I sure hope you're a vegan and grow all your own food, use only synthetic tack, and loom all your own clothing from cotton you grow yourself, otherwise you're as much in agreement with the slaughter industry as anyone else.

If you want to believe that PETA, HSUS and the ASPCA are in the business of helping animals, then ignorance must surely be bliss. 

You still haven't told me what YOUR solution is to take care of all the unwanted horses. I'll be more than happy to agree that equine slaughter should be banned when the antis come up with a better idea that will actually work.


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## KatRocks

I understand that its the minimum all one can do. But I don't want to do just the minimum. The whole point of this thread was so that I could understand what really goes on in the industry and how it has been managed. To a degree my question has been answered, but now this whole thread has become pro vs anti which wasn't my intention. But I suppose I was naive to think this wouldn't get off topic....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AlexS

eclipseranch said:


> I've started to wonder if you are tied to the slaughter houses & have a financial gain but no matter to me..you can talk to my hand as far as I am concerned your arguments against anyone & every organization who attempts to work for the safety & well being of animals is tiresome...


This is an incredibly ignorant and offensive opinion. So anyone that does not agree with you and your idea of what is right and wrong is against animal safety and well being? 

Purlease! 

There are a great many things worse than death at an American slaughter house. I would think that traveling further to meet the same end is worse. I'd think that starving in a field is worse too. 

Take off your superior colored lenses and open your ears a little.


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## TheAQHAGirl

To tell everybody the truth, we wouldn't have slaughter if people stopped breeding their mares JUST because they want a foal and end up selling it at auction...

Anyways, for the most part I'm anti-slaughter. If the industry can find a quick and humane way to kill the livestock, then I'll be for it.


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## natisha

It's not death itself but the journey to it that matters, to all living things.


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## Celeste

Living close the the Alabama border line has made me very wary of slaughter. When there was an equine slaughter plant in Alabama, horses were stolen all the time. They were processed so fast that nothing could be done. Sure slaughtering stolen horses was illegal. It was also profitable. The local plants give horse thiefs a good market for their goods. It will be profitable if there is a local slaughter plant.

Drugs are illegal. People sell drugs. If there were no market, there would be no drugs. Horses will be stolen if there is a market. The plant in Alabama routinely processed stolen horses. 

Back in the old west days, they would have have public hangings for horse thiefs. It happened quickly and without appeal. Since public hanging is unlikely to take place, what do the pro-slaughter people propose to do about theft? I put years of my life, a lot of my soul, and a whole lot of money into my horses. I don't want them stolen and killed for profit.


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## barrelbeginner

Everyone is confusing me:0... I dont disagree with horse slaughter or slaughter at all.. Im not going to eat horse though.. But I'm not going to judge people that do.. I mean people dont eat cow because its part of there culture.. so I'm not going to say we shouldn't slaughter them but we can sluaghter cows.. and pigs and what not... but like stated above.. I dont want my horse stolen for profit:/ that would NOT be cool...


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## Speed Racer

Celeste said:


> Since public hanging is unlikely to take place, what do the pro-slaughter people propose to do about theft? I put years of my life, a lot of my soul, and a whole lot of money into my horses. I don't want them stolen and killed for profit.


The only thing _anyone_ can do, pro or anti, to discourage theft is to have the proper measures in place to make it more difficult. You're not the only one who has put in emotion, money, and time into their animals.

If you're _that_ worried about it, better put in a security system. Plenty of horses get stolen every day, which makes no sense to me since there are so many freebies out there.

Do you think it's anyone's fault except a thief's if your vehicle is stolen? Then why would you think your animals' safety should be on anyone except yourself? That's a sad, weak argument and based on nothing more than emotional hysteria.


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## Failbhe

Never having lived close to a slaughter facility, I hadn't realized that it was that bad for theft. I'm still not 'anti-slaughter' - but I can see how it would be disconcerting to live with the fear of theft like that. 

Strange that it would affect the horse market so much - even when cattle prices were quite high, my parents were never worried that the herd might disappear in the night (and our security consisted of a three-strand barbed wire fence ) and my husband's farm has never lost hogs or chickens... 

(Well, aside from one rather unpleasant neighbour who would sneak off with a chicken dinner every once in a while, after filling up his scooter from the farm gas tank! Even after putting locks on EVERYTHING, they were VERY happy when he moved away!!!)


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## Celeste

Cows are much harder to steal than horses. The horses will let you catch them and then quietly walk on the trailer. 

There is no market for stolen horses now. There will be if there are close by slaughter plants.


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## barrelbeginner

well, I have to disagree, there still are things stolen no matter what.. people should watch there animals closer I guess.. Horse slaughter is NEEDED IMO


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## AlexS

I can see the situation where horses are slaughtered too quickly and so are stolen for this. However I don't see how this connects with the for or against argument. 

The fact that this happens is not because slaughter was in your state, it's because proper precautions were not taken to check the horses that were accepted and the people running the plants were crooks. 

Every time I took my car to a mechanic, I seemed to specialize in finding crooks - should all mechanics be banned?


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## Gremmy

This again? :? I'm not going to repeat myself so feel free to look up the other threads on the subject.



buckinhard said:


> The E.U. european Union , which controls the horse meat from Canada and Mexico will no longer be accepting US horse meat as of 2013. There will be no need for US to slaughter horses for human consumption. The reason is US horses have been medication with drugs that either have no withdrawal time, or and extended withdrawal time. Drugs that have no withdrawal time used commonly in US horses is Bute, clenbuterol, furacin and others. The E.U. has placed a requirement for any US horse to have a passport like the european horses have, a passport is a document that follows the US horse from birth to slaughter, documenting any and all drugs, vaccines, wormers, pain meds, tranquilizer, even fly spray. The slaughter for equines in the US due to the state and local governments were experiencing horrible filth, tainted water, tainted air and an increase in crime. Horse slaughter for human consumption provides just a few jobs and mostly immigrants. The lack of slaughter in the US has reduced the number of stolen horses. The horses that end up in Mexico are brutally stabbed with a pointed knife called a puntilla method, it's horrible cruel, bloody and causes the horses to be fearful as they hear their fellow horses screaming in pain. California, in 1997, passed a law prohibiting any transaction where one would buy, sell give away, take and transport any equine for slaughter. Although the kill buyers still sneak and aquire horses using various tactics, it is illegal in Ca. There was a recent Texas Senate hearing on horse slaughter in their state, one speaker, Jerry Finch from Habitat for Horses, gave a testimony presenting this issue with facts and numbers. I suggest, if you or anyone else is interested in know the factual truth, look it up or join facebook and look up horse slaughter.The pro slaughter people spin the facts and want to feed the meat to school children and prisoners... truth !


I would love to see evidence of this EU plan though! Keeping in mind that there is currently *no* US horse meat to not accept :lol: Canada's market share for horse meat exports to France for example, more than doubled after the US exited the industry. Our imports from the US of slaughter-bound horses also increased by an insane amount.

Keep fighting the good fight guys, Canada's GDP thanks you.


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## AlexS

Isn't Canada's horse market in general much healthier than it is in the US too?


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## Corporal

When we HAD horse slaughter in IL the horses were bought at auctions that required a negative Coggins. It was an orderly process. When my old horses have passed on, I have paid "Animal By-Products" to collect the bodies. (I trim mane and tail hair to keep and sob over afterwards.) About 5 years ago my Vet warned me that horses were being stolen from pastures for shipping to Europe and slaughtered live for meat. So, I put chains and locks on all of my gates. Anybody can catch and load my horses in a trailer. _Some_ people here can't say that about their horses. I guess I could go one step further and microchip them. Why do you think that there are guarantees to your horse's 100% safety? Maybe you should buy some insurance against the loss?
Horse slaughter went on for decades and decades and was accepted--not ever loved--as a way to keep sick and dying animals from dying and rotting and attracting wolves (when we had them) and bears (when we had them) and coyotes and rats to your property, or your neighbor's property. It wasn't a problem until the recent rise in a group that believes it's tantamount to a sin to slaughter a horse, which is your property and your livestock. It's no different to steal a horse than to steal any other animal.


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## jaydee

*slaughter*

I'm from the UK where we have always had slaughter yards with the option of you taking your horse to them or some that will come out to you and shoot the horse on your own yard. There is also the option of a local hunt kennels coming out to do the job and taking the carcass or having your vet to do the job. The passport system over there is still flawed but all the time efforts are being made to tighten up on it - it wasn't expensive per owner/per horse and at least when you buy a horse you have a record of its history. A horse presented for slaughter has to have a passport and it has reduced the numbers of horses being stolen for the meat market
Over the years I've had horse reach the end of their time and I've been at their side when they were shot. I've never had one panic at the thought of what was happening as they have no idea and its fast and over with.
In an ideal world we would have enough wonderful homes for all the horses bred but we dont live in that world
There aren't enough charities and rescue homes for all these unwanted horses and many that do get 'rescued' end up in homes that have no idea how to care for them
Closing the slaughter yards down in the US only put horses on appalling journeys to Canada & Mexico with no one to oversee how they were treated enroute or at the other end. All it did was increase their suffering
People dump unsound, problem and just plain unwanted horses in auctions then walk away and dream that they have gone to a good home rather than take responsibility for them
There needs to be more control of breeding to reduce numbers
Easy access to supervised slaughter yards for people who for whatever reason wont or cant pay to have a horse euthanised at home
Charities actually raising money to pay for horses to be euthanised at home where owners genuinely can't afford the costs
Slaughter is a necessary part of the real horse world, its not going to go away so making it as fear and pain free is the best way to go


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## smrobs

bsms said:


> My little free mustang is a good trail pony (13 hands). He can do nothing for a month, then take an adult out on a 2-3 hour trail ride as if he was being ridden daily. He's an easy keeper and loves attention. The instructor I was taking lessons from could also count at least 6 owners that she knew of in his 14 year life. Buy pony. Daughter grows. Sell pony. We don't need a third horse, which is why I know he can go without riding for a month and then behave well...but if our finances allow, we'll keep him. Maybe for 20 years.


I know this is off topic and going back quite a ways, but BSMS, if you ever can't keep him, let me know. I'm always in the market for a tough horse on the smaller side of things.


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## Gremmy

Celeste said:


> Cows are much harder to steal than horses. *The horses will let you catch them and then quietly walk on the trailer.*


I'm sorry, but BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! :lol:


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## barrelbeginner

Gremmy said:


> I'm sorry, but BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! :lol:


 I dont get what's funny about that lol.. not in a diaagreeing way.. just pulling a blank here.. oh and to the cows are harder to steal thing.. what if they are show steers? LOL they walk in trailers as well..


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## Celeste

If you have ever loaded a bunch of cows (except those few that are halter broken) you would know that they are harder to catch, harder to load, and more trouble to haul than horses.


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## smrobs

^^Depends on the horses. If they are relatively mellow or if they've been handled a lot or if they are halter broke, then they are usually pretty easy for someone with a bit of sense to load.

But, if they are full grown, never been touched, and never so much as seen a person, that can get dangerous in a hurry...even moreso than with cattle.

IMHO, at least you can load cattle from horseback without having to worry about one of them coming up to the horse your riding, arching their neck, squealing, and trying to start a fight.


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## bsms

smrobs said:


> I know this is off topic and going back quite a ways, but BSMS, if you ever can't keep him, let me know. I'm always in the market for a tough horse on the smaller side of things.


fftopic:
We think he'll turn into a great 'first horse' for the grandkids to trail ride on. That gives us about a year before the oldest might be ready...he still has moments when he worries that a human will be mean to him. Particularly in an arena. I think he associates it with impatient people wacking on you...


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## AlexS

We went to see something none horse related tonight that was advertised on CL. In the process of that, I was in the boondocks of SE Pa and passed a mini breeding farm. There were 10 foals in the field at least, with about 15 mares and 4 (that I saw) possible stallions. 

I thought about this conversation while my soul cried a little while looking at these (assumed) over bred animals.


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## Celeste

How do you know that they were not valuable, marketable animals?

If nobody breeds horses ever, then we will not have horses in 30 years or so.


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## jaydee

*breeding*



Celeste said:


> How do you know that they were not valuable, marketable animals?
> 
> If nobody breeds horses ever, then we will not have horses in 30 years or so.


 I find it hard to believe that a responsible person breeding high quality horses would leave 4 stallions in a field together with a herd of mares. I'm surprised they weren't kicking the crap out of each other. You would have no idea what foal was by what stallion which means they can't have any breed registry. I know that actual known breeding doesn't mean you are essentially getting a better horse for the job but its the 'unknowns' and unhandled ones that are at the bottom of the price chain and most likely to end up on the road to a slaughter yard - maybe via some total novice who's bought them from a sale and thinks they've watched enough Youtube videos to work miracles with them and has no idea how much it costs to keep a horse properly
If you really want to see an end to horses being 'bred for slaughter then you would do better to be pushing for a countrywide policy that only allows breeding from approved stock at an approved rate until the market is stable again.


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## Celeste

I suppose that I am dubious that they were all stallions. They could be. Then the only way you would know is DNA testing, and that is pretty doubtful that they are doing it.


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## barrelbeginner

Celeste said:


> If you have ever loaded a bunch of cows (except those few that are halter broken) you would know that they are harder to catch, harder to load, and more trouble to haul than horses.



Unless of course you have a good set up but I see where your coming from.. Im about to have double the amout of longhorns I have now (40)


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## barrelbeginner

Celeste said:


> How do you know that they were not valuable, marketable animals?
> 
> If nobody breeds horses ever, then we will not have horses in 30 years or so.



Umm I think they were saying just breeding to breed is a ridiculous idea. You say that you pretty much are worried about horses being slaughtered and what not. but many of them are starving because of breeders like this..


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## AlexS

One was 100% certainly a stallion, the others looked to be. I parked alongside their field for a while to have a look at the adorable foals. 

I was interested, so when I got home I looked up the address of the barn and have googled it to death. They are not on the internet, other than zillow for a property sale. 

That doesn't mean anything either - but if I had to place bets, I'd put money on the fact that they are just putting horses together, breeding and then running them through the sale once weaned. It's rather unlikely to me that they are selling well bred animals without even one single internet ad that I could find.


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## barrelbeginner

agreed^ 100000000000%


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## jaydee

*breeding for slaughter*

These sound to be the very sort of people that are putting horses on slaughter yards, they dont care at all where they end up as long as they make a enough $'s out of them to turn a bit of profit - since their property is up for sale it looks as if thats not worked out so well for them maybe
Responsible breeders are reducing the number of good quality foals they produce while people like this carry on flooding the market
I've just questioned someone from the UK on another thread that was originally asking about how much weight a TB could carry and is now considering breeding from a mare she's been gifted. She sounds like a novice rider, I dont want to be rude to these sort of people but there are now so many abandoned horses in the UK the rescue centres are considering having to euthanise old and unsound ones to make room for young healthy horses and the Horse & Hound one of the countries top horse magazines is constantly running features of good riding horses in need of adoption.


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## AlexS

The property sale on zillow was them purchasing the property some time ago sadly. 

I actually agree with rescues euthing unsound horses. There are so many sound, sane horses needing homes that it doesn't make sense to me for a space to be filled by one of little use. 

Obviously if it's your own old, unsound horse then it has value and use - but that's not what I am meaning with rescue horses.


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## Failbhe

I feel the same about shelters for cats and dogs too... of course, I don't LIKE euthanizing animals that are elderly or have health or behavioral issues. In a perfect world no-kill shelters would work - heck, in a perfect world, there wouldn't need to be shelters period. But when there are SO MANY healthy animals out there it just doesn't make sense.


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## jaydee

*slaughter*



AlexS said:


> The property sale on zillow was them purchasing the property some time ago sadly.
> 
> I actually agree with rescues euthing unsound horses. There are so many sound, sane horses needing homes that it doesn't make sense to me for a space to be filled by one of little use.
> 
> Obviously if it's your own old, unsound horse then it has value and use - but that's not what I am meaning with rescue horses.


 I agree too, I think that in the past people have seen rescue centres as a place for elderly and unsound horses that for whatever reason people couldn't or didn't want to keep any more but all thats changing and its wrong that a useful young horse with its whole life in front of it should have to die for the sake of one thats had its life - not the same as retirement homes for horses where people pay for them to be there
Its unfortunate that there is no enforced warranty system in the US at sales so what it says on the label has to be what you get. A lot of well meaning people that can provide homes for horses are coming away from sales with animals that are unsound or total nut jobs often pumped full of sedatives or pain meds


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## Cowboy Ringo

It will raise Horse prices which is good if you in the horse business.
Also, you wont see as many starving horses as they will be bought up by meat buyers in the stock yard. 
Horse slaughter is usually produced for things such as dog food, etc....


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## Copperhead

AlexS said:


> We went to see something none horse related tonight that was advertised on CL. In the process of that, I was in the boondocks of SE Pa and passed a mini breeding farm. There were 10 foals in the field at least, with about 15 mares and 4 (that I saw) possible stallions.
> 
> I thought about this conversation while my soul cried a little while looking at these (assumed) over bred animals.


I briefly worked for a farm with 50+ horses and only 3 fields. They hadn't sold a horse in over 6 years but HAD to have at least 6 foals every spring. None of them were trained to do ANYthing. The breeding manager was harped on because he only allowed 4 mares to come into foal instead of 6. I managed to sell 3 horses off that property before I left (about 2 months later) and by that time, 3 more horses were born and they bought a new mare for more breeding. The breeding manager was about to quit after I left because he simply ran out of room to put the mares and foals and the owner wanted more horses to be bred for next year.

I ended selling a couple and starting some 5-6 year olds under saddle before I left. When I first came, the owner was considering throwing a bunch onto the truck for slaughter just to get rid of them (yet still breed). It was a mess when I came and it was a mess when I left.


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## Copperhead

eclipseranch said:


> haha have to laugh..to think I was afraid of being bullied if I spoke my personal opinion..I just researched this issue for the last 3 hours..yep the old fashioned way at the local library. what I learned didn't surprise me at all and no amnt of sarcasm, bully tactics or strong words will change my beliefs and my vote counts just like every other registered voter. I know I don't have all the answers and I know I can't right all the wrongs in the world. This horse owner of both market horses & rescue horses is against the inhumane slaughter of horses.
> below is a brief article from the ASPCA on the issue if any one wants factual info from a reputable organization
> ASPCA | Horse Slaughter
> 
> have a great day everyone and may the sunshine in your corner of the world



We are ALL against _INHUMANE_ slaughter. The USA had regulations on how to properly slaughter an animal, and used those techniques. Using a knife to stab the horse over and over again? Inhumane. Bolt gun to the head and out like a light? Humane.

There are worse things in life than death. Keep that in mind. You've obviously never seen these "worse" things. Believe me. They are out there. I know of a couple people who have euthenized their horses via a gun, and I know a gentleman who owns a bolt gun for any unlucky situation.

I follow a rescue on facebook (in another country) where they can only do so much before giving the horse back to the owner. Multiple times, the horse had died when given back. And the rescue said "Oh, thank god its over". Worse things in life than death.


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## Ripplewind

I would be anti-slaughter if it wasn't necessary. But there are too many irresponsible breeders out there who contribute, and there are too many owners who buy horses because "horses are pretty and I love them so much and I'll love him and feed him every day and he loves me and we can ride in a circle". When those horses act up and the owners can't find a solution, well. Off to the the slaughter house.

Yes, I understand how it seems horrible to send a majestic creature off to its death, but be realistic. Most of those animals are either useless or people can't afford to find a use for them. The slaughter houses filter and clean up unwanted, un-cared for horses. I'd rather see a hopeless abuse case go to slaughter than see him having to live through it for the rest of his life.

I use to be anti. I guess, at heart, I still am. Mainly because it breaks me to see so many animals killed. But what can I do about it? Not much. And if people were more responsible, slaughter houses wouldn't be nearly as controversial as they are now.

I'm only sixteen, and I'm a girl. Most sixteen year old girls choose, when presented with the decision of anti or pro, anti. It's because most sixteen year old girls don't own horses and don't even know how to lead one. They choose anti because they are emotionally swayed to believe that there are no good reasons for slaughter, that people only slaughter because they are cruel and evil and too lazy to find good, loving homes for those pretty little horseys. Gosh. Be realistic! Horses are expensive, and taking care of the flea-infested stock that usually ends up slaughtered is, more often than not, not worth the time or money invested.

Sure, there are some **** good horses that end up getting offed. And that's pretty sad, you know? Horses with real potential and money-making attributes getting killed next to horses with crossed eyes.


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