# Need helping choosing!



## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Need your opinions on both geldings.

Gelding one:
JC name Kathy's Kitten
Kathys Kitten Horse Pedigree

He is 11 yrs old. Came off track Feb 2017. 
15.3 hh
Still track broke. 














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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Second gelding

16.1 hh
5yr
Track broke only, never made it to the track tho
JC name Shadow Dark
http://www.pedigreequery.com/shadow+dark















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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Neither has any previous injuries, both about the same training
One is $1000 more



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## EstrellaandJericho (Aug 12, 2017)

I'd choose #2 if looks were all that mattered. He has a kind eye


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

I like the first gelding more. He has a better shoulder angle, I like the length of his rump (point to point), he is pretty balanced, is level or a little uphill, and moves nicely. I don't like his shark-fin withers though. 

Gelding two looks to be downhill, lacks withers, has a steeper shoulder; his pastern and shoulder angles don't match in one photo. In another photo he is standing very toed out in front. 

However, in person they could look very different . . .


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Avna said:


> I like the first gelding more. He has a better shoulder angle, I like the length of his rump (point to point), he is pretty balanced, is level or a little uphill, and moves nicely. I don't like his shark-fin withers though.
> 
> Gelding two looks to be downhill, lacks withers, has a steeper shoulder; his pastern and shoulder angles don't match in one photo. In another photo he is standing very toed out in front.
> 
> However, in person they could look very different . . .


I can't go see them, would be site unseen
The top one is the cheaper one 

I'm so torn 

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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

I agree with @EstrellaandJericho, based on what I can see here I'd choose #2. He comes across as calmer and more manageable of the two.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

EstrellaandJericho said:


> I'd choose #2 if looks were all that mattered. He has a kind eye


Looks don't matter to me, conformation and move do 

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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

JCnGrace said:


> I agree with @EstrellaandJericho, based on what I can see here I'd choose #2. He comes across as calmer and more manageable of the two.


I can always work on the training 
Both are said to have good ground manners and very sweet


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## EstrellaandJericho (Aug 12, 2017)

TbsandMalinois said:


> EstrellaandJericho said:
> 
> 
> > I'd choose #2 if looks were all that mattered. He has a kind eye
> ...


sounds like you made a decision!!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Boy, buying sight unseen is so risky. Get a complete PPI, and lots of video. If those photos are all you have to go on, they are not enough. You need front and rear shots, and video of all gaits, at minimum.

Is there any way to get someone experienced and trustworthy to look them over beforehand?


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Avna said:


> Boy, buying sight unseen is so risky. Get a complete PPI, and lots of video. If those photos are all you have to go on, they are not enough. You need front and rear shots, and video of all gaits, at minimum.
> 
> Is there any way to get someone experienced and trustworthy to look them over beforehand?


I'll get a ppe but don't want to spend the money to have both done and waste one of the owners time. I'm pretty sure both will pass. I know both of the owners and they come recommend and honest. 
I will definitely get more pictures and video, this is what I have for now. 

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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

I like both, but for me #1 is the one I (think) I'd choose. LOL. Tough decision.

But again, for me I prefer #1, I like his build more in the first few photos of him when he has a bit more weight on. Regardless, both are very nice to my untrained eye. Best of luck deciding!


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

EstrellaandJericho said:


> sounds like you made a decision!!


No I'm just saying I'm not choosing because one is prettier lol (which they both are nice looking) 
I am trying to decide between their movement and the way they are put together 

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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

csimkunas6 said:


> I like both, but for me #1 is the one I (think) I'd choose. LOL. Tough decision.
> 
> But again, for me I prefer #1, I like his build more in the first few photos of him when he has a bit more weight on. Regardless, both are very nice to my untrained eye. Best of luck deciding!


The one with less weight is right off the track 

Yeah it's a tough decision lol

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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Looking to do lower level through prelim eventing

If that changes anyone opinion 

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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

The second one any day, he is lovely. Plus, the first one is not sound.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Fimargue said:


> The second one any day, he is lovely. Plus, the first one is not sound.


They are both sound

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## EstrellaandJericho (Aug 12, 2017)

TbsandMalinois said:


> EstrellaandJericho said:
> 
> 
> > sounds like you made a decision!!
> ...


 makes sense... However movement and put together in my definition is looks. Sorry for the confusion! I still like #2 based off his eyes and conformation.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

TbsandMalinois said:


> They are both sound
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


By who? Being able to still go forward on all four legs doesn't make a horse sound. Watching him is painful.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Fimargue said:


> The second one any day, he is lovely. Plus, the first one is not sound.


how so?


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

To be more specific. First gelding does not swing through the back, he is short in both hinds and has possibly a stifle problem. The leg pops up, does not extend. The second one has a lovely swinging back and free movement.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Since you're wanting to do eventing, I'd go with #2. Until you said that, my choice was #1 (agree the withers could make saddle fitting an issue) but for eventing I'd go with the younger horse. #1 looks stiff and a little 'off', I would wonder if he'd stay sound for eventing. The pics of #2 are atrocious, my first reaction was "UGH what a collywobbled mess!" and then I watched the video and realized they were just not good pics.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Have you seen any video of #2 going the other direction? He's only going to the left for the entire video. Would be good to see if he moves as nicely the other way, gets his lead, etc.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Since you're wanting to do eventing, I'd go with #2. Until you said that, my choice was #1 (agree the withers could make saddle fitting an issue) but for eventing I'd go with the younger horse. #1 looks stiff and a little 'off', I would wonder if he'd stay sound for eventing. The pics of #2 are atrocious, my first reaction was "UGH what a collywobbled mess!" and then I watched the video and realized they were just not good pics.


The older one has raced for 7 or 8 years with out any injury I don't doubt he would stay sound for lower level eventing 

Either way I'd get a PPE done on the one I'm looking at 
I'm waiting on better videos of the 1st, as those aren't the most recent.

#2 video is recent. And I agree those pictures are terrible.
#2 also never made it to the track and makes me question why. But from what I have been told, no injuries either.

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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

SteadyOn said:


> Have you seen any video of #2 going the other direction? He's only going to the left for the entire video. Would be good to see if he moves as nicely the other way, gets his lead, etc.


I'll ask for some 

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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

The fact that #2 didn't run is in his favor. It could be something as simple as, doesn't care about being the first one out of the gate or doesn't want to be the fastest one down the stretch. Those are things that training really can't fix, either he's born to run or he isn't. Since #1 has raced for 7-8 years, even without injuries, I would pass on him for eventing. He's bound to have some arthritis and soundness issues sooner rather than later.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I agree that the first horses movement looks off. I also like #2 better and his pics are awful.

I've never got that statement about not going by the looks. To me conformation and movement are the looks of a horse. That's what makes them look the way they do. Anyway, if purchase price is not an object then number two would be my choice.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Alright I'm waiting on newer pictures and videos from both of them. And I am going to look at setting up a PPE for the number two horse. And I'm sorry I misunderstood when it was said about looks, I thought they just meant if he looks pretty. LOL

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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Would love to see newer videos of both. In the video of the first one, his movement just seems like he's protecting himself in the hind. And, maybe he was on that day. If he still looks the same in a newer video, I would definitely go with the second horse. They both are pretty.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

LoriF said:


> Would love to see newer videos of both.


I *supposed * to get some today

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## Hidalgo13 (Dec 24, 2010)

I have zero expertise, so what is say is of little value, however so far I love how #2 moves much more than #1. And I agree about how he seems to have a kind eye. Overall I just have a better vibe from horse #2, although I know there is more to consider than just that. Good luck with the choice! I look forward to seeing more videos of them both, and which one ends up being the chosen one.


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## ChasingDreams (Nov 14, 2017)

I’m still learning so grain of salt... but, I agree with the few that said #1 seems a little off in the hind. He isn’t tracking well, I’d want a PPE and to see a current video before buying sight unseen.

Nothing jumps out at me in the second horse’s video, but again I’m still learning myself. They are both attractive, but I also prefer the aesthetics of #2 as just pure personal preference. If soundness, conformation, training, and overall health was apples to apples.

So I guess my vote is #2 


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I agree that gelding #2 is the better choice. The first gelding is off on the hind left. Also, his hooves are in a bad balance, and who knows how long he's been worked hard with hooves that are not well balanced. 
The second gelding is more downhill, and will need correct riding to counteract his tendency to have a tiny bit of a ewe neck. But, if eventing is your focus, his heart and stamina are more important than the shape of his neck.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

#2 is the only one worth considering even though he looks downhill and is overdeveloped on the underside of his neck and underdeveloped on the top side which means he's got a tendency to go in a hollowed out frame with his nose in the air.
I wouldn't spend money on a PPE without seeing that horse ridden or at least lunged on both reins and walked and trotted towards and away from a camera.
Even if he passes the vet he could be a lot of work to train to where you want him to be for low level eventing.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Thanks everyone ! I ended up passing on both of them, and I'm looking at quite a few others

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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

What do y'all think of this baby? 
He is a 2016 model 
15.3hh already! 

Unbridleds song grandbaby















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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I wouldn't buy a 2 year old for eventing that was already broke unless I was going to turn him away for a year. 
Do you have the facilities and experience to work on such a green horse?


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

jaydee said:


> I wouldn't buy a 2 year old for eventing that was already broke unless I was going to turn him away for a year.
> Do you have the facilities and experience to work on such a green horse?


Oh yeah he'd be let down for minimum a year then only started on dressage 
Yes, I have the facility, time, and experience to work with him

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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its a possible then - racing breeding doesn't interest me if I want an eventing horse other than having an idea if the horses in his bloodlines retired sound and if any of them went on to compete or breed horses that did. 
I prefer horses that were bred to race over fences and/or raced over fences successfully to flat racers for prospective eventing horses.
I'm not sure how serious you are about eventing, if you want to go up through the levels or just have fun at the lower end. 
If you want to go up the levels, now that the dressage phase is so much more important to your points score and the jumping courses are becoming more technical, it really is better to buy a purpose bred WB for the job.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

jaydee said:


> Its a possible then - racing breeding doesn't interest me if I want an eventing horse other than having an idea if the horses in his bloodlines retired sound and if any of them went on to compete or breed horses that did.
> I prefer horses that were bred to race over fences and/or raced over fences successfully to flat racers for prospective eventing horses.
> I'm not sure how serious you are about eventing, if you want to go up through the levels or just have fun at the lower end.
> If you want to go up the levels, now that the dressage phase is so much more important to your points score and the jumping courses are becoming more technical, it really is better to buy a purpose bred WB for the job.


I'm pretty set on an ottb. I like to look at their pedigree as there are few sires that produce excellent sport horses. I'm not looking to go upper level the most that I probably look into would be prelim. I mostly just wanting to have something that enjoys it and has fun but can remain sound through its entire career

I am looking at an ex steeplechaser I'll post his information as well

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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

He's cute , and he put up with the constant 'desensitizing' that lady was doing to him, with equanimity.


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## cbar (Nov 27, 2015)

He is cute, but man...I have a hard time watching people lunge who don't know what they're doing!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cbar said:


> He is cute, but man...I have a hard time watching people lunge who don't know what they're doing!


Oh good, it's not just me!


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

That lunging made me cringe... But the colt is nice, and seems like a nice person.


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Haha 100% agree, that lunging was hard to watch

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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

I ended up getting this mare. I went and tried her and just loved her. I have a 2 week trial on her

She's 16.1, 10yr old










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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Oh good, it's not just me!


No, it's not just you. All I could think was how the poor thing was so confused.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

Xena is cute, I would love to know how she works out for you.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

congratulations! looks like a lovely mare and a good match for you.


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## Alicookie (Aug 28, 2017)

I like #1. Just something about him and he's a BIG boy and I like big horses. My Appendex has Dash for Cash in his background so the previous owners tried to race him. He hated it and came last. Big, lazy lug.


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## Fimargue (Jun 19, 2015)

Congrats! I like her. Hope she works out fine for you


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## TbsandMalinois (Jan 26, 2017)

Alicookie said:


> I like #1. Just something about him and he's a BIG boy and I like big horses. My Appendex has Dash for Cash in his background so the previous owners tried to race him. He hated it and came last. Big, lazy lug.


Look at the latest comment, I choose a mare. She's a tank too 

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