# foal contract question



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Before you take money or goods in trade for this mare's foal, get _everything_ in writing. The agreement can be as detailed as you want. 

I'd think since you're the mare owner, you should at least be responsible for half of all the vet/farrier/supplement expenses concerning the mare during her pregnancy. After all, the person who wants the foal isn't getting the mare, and it's in your best interest to keep her healthy during and after her pregnancy.

The foal can change ownership in utero, but you need to put in the contract that it will go to the new owner upon weaning.

Make sure any contract you write up is signed by both of you and witnessed by a third party, preferably a notary public. Then each of you should get a copy.


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## cowgirllinda1952 (Apr 15, 2013)

*Foal Contract*

I agree with most of this, except the part about this lady owning the foal in utero, in my opinionm that would give her the right to come on my dauhters property, bring anyone she wanted, and make all of the decisions regarding foals care and initial training. Please keep in mind, this is a very bossy, opinionated person who has never been near a horse in her life. When I made the verbal agreement, I just assumed te foal was mine until weaned and surrendered to her. I am being to be very sorry I entered into the deal at all. I know when it comes to puppies, the owner of the mother owns the puppies til they are weaned. Please disregard all these spelling mistakes, my 2 yr. old gradson removed some keys.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I never said you were _required_ to name her the owner in utero, just that it's an option. It's often done with high dollar show horses. 

Besides, terms of the contract may clearly state what she can and cannot do during the mare's pregnancy. If you don't want her on the property or making any decisions about the foal before it's weaned, put that in the contract. However, if you're expecting her to fork up money during the mare's pregnancy, she has_ some_ rights in the matter. If you don't want to turn over ownership until weaning, then you can't expect any help with bills during the mare's pregnancy.

You're also allowed to change your mind about giving her this foal if you don't think it's a good match. Until something is in writing, it's a he said/she said type of situation.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

If I were you I would wait til the foal is weaned and just sell or exchange something for it. This stuff never seems to work out well for either party. One feels they got shafted, one feels they are not sticking to the agreement, the other feels they are over stepping their bounds. It would save you a lot of head ache to just retain ownership over every thing and handle it when the foal is ready to go. 

What happens if the foal somehow doesn't make it? What she changes her mind? Do you have to pay her back?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Exactly, Slide. Too many variables, especially since the OP is starting to regret the agreement.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

First, you need to step back and not be emotionally involved with this foal. If you don't want it, to the point you'd be willing to abort it, then mentally you have to let go. 

Second, remind yourself frequently that the market for weanling foals not from superstar parents SUCKS right now. Think about that several times before you alienate your buyer. 

After you do that, then decide if you want to go on with this transaction or not. If you do then decide if you're selling the foal in utero or upon weaning. OR third option, you can do a "breed lease" on the mare for the remainder of the pregnancy and until the foal is weaned. 

If you sell in utero or do a breed lease you get money now but the buyer does have some rights. 

I would not deal with a mare owner who wouldn't permit me to visit the mare throughout, though I would expect that visits would have to be arranged, I wouldn't expect to be able to just show up and especially just show up with a posse. 

Another good point with the in utero sale or breed lease, the person owns the foal NOW and there can be repercussions if they try to back out later. And if they DO back out later, you have non-refundable money to compensate you. 

The downside is that they do have the right to expect a certain amount of care (they're paying for it) and to have a say in the training of the foal until weaning. The way around some training ideology issues is to specify in the contract that you (or whomever) will be providing the halter breaking and handling training of the foal. Or, you can say that from the moment the foal hits the ground, the owner is responsible and you don't put hands on the foal. She gets pretty much a wild child, and I don't find that acceptable especially for someone who's new to horses, but you don't have to worry about training. You let the foal nurse for 4 months, at 4 months you say, "Come get your foal." and walk away. 

You can also wait to even commit, let alone finalize, to the sale until the foal is weaned. If you do that, you don't have to deal with this individual at all until she comes to pay and pick up the foal. The downside to that is, she may change her mind and you are stuck with the foal you didn't want.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Also, if I bought a foal in utero (which it sounds like the verbal agreement you have now is along those lines) I'd expect to be handling that baby from day numero uno. If its her baby, its hers. You don't get a say in training if she doesn't want you to. Especially if you have no ownership over the foal. Which brings up an important piece, especially for your buyer. Bill. Of. Sale! As long as ownership is in her name she is in control of the foal. 

Written contracts. Written contracts. Written contracts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cowgirllinda1952 (Apr 15, 2013)

*Response to answers*

I am not emotionally attached to this foal. maybe I mislead people into thinking that I was "selling this foal to this woman. That is not the case, she asked me for the foal in exchange for her buying feed and hay, no money or goods were to exchange hands. I am only upset over what I may end up being major issues, this being based on another deal she made with another party, same terms. That mare has just been injured and needs to be put down, and this woman is refusing to allow the mare to be put down, even thouggh she is in tremendous pain, because her "baby" will die as well.

I have no problems with her visiting thhe mare and foal, but I do not want her bringing others with her without our permission, or being bossy and controlling and ordering us around. My mare was bred when I got her, she was in very poor condition, my vet says I am doing all I can, there's nothing else I can do to get her into any better condition.

I wish now that I had just waited, if the issue with this other mare had come up first, I never would have. The mare is so severely injured, she cannot walk on her own, and no way could she jump into a trailer, yet she just keeps going on and on and on, that she's told this and that person and they say the mare does not need to be put down, without even seeing her.

My daughter insists I have alread made the deal, and cannot back out now, but in no way did I intend to make it so loose. with the mare being in such horrible condition it is very likely she won't carry to term, anyway. This woman has so far bought 4 bags of feed, and a round bale to be shared between 4 horses, only 1 was mine. I am considering very nicely telling her, that since the outcome of the foal is in question maybe it would be best to just wait and see what happens when and if te foal is born, and i will feed my own horse. i am not trying to go back on any deals, I just don't want any trouble, which with the oter situation like it is, I'm very afraid their might be. Thanks for everyones help.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

cowgirllinda1952 said:


> I am not emotionally attached to this foal. maybe I mislead people into thinking that I was "selling this foal to this woman. That is not the case, she asked me for the foal in exchange for her buying feed and hay, no money or goods were to exchange hands. I am only upset over what I may end up being major issues, this being based on another deal she made with another party, same terms. That mare has just been injured and needs to be put down, and this woman is refusing to allow the mare to be put down, even thouggh she is in tremendous pain, because her "baby" will die as well.
> 
> I have no problems with her visiting thhe mare and foal, but I do not want her bringing others with her without our permission, or being bossy and controlling and ordering us around. My mare was bred when I got her, she was in very poor condition, my vet says I am doing all I can, there's nothing else I can do to get her into any better condition.
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm confused. Which mare needs to be put down? Yours or the other mare? If it's your mare that needs put down, then do it and offer her a refund AFTER the fact. 

If it's not your mare that needs euthanized then, write up a contract that states exactly what has been agreed to by both parties, have it signed and witnessed by an uninvolved party IF you choose to continue this deal. 

With nothing in writing, I would hand her cash for the value of the amount of feed she has provided for 1 horse, tell her that you will keep a log of feed costs for your mare and IF the foal is born, you will contact her WHEN THE FOAL IS WEANED and if she still wants it, she can pay the feed costs and take the foal right then. That eliminates any right to visit or bring friends or cause you grief in any way. 

And because you say she is difficult, I would make it known to her that it is this way, take it or leave it and be prepared for her to leave it. 

I will brook NO interference in the care of MY mares, regardless of whether the foal is purchased in utero or not. They own the FOAL, not the mare and I am the ONLY one who gets any say in their care. To let this woman think she has control of your mare is simply ludicrous. 

At most you would owe her a foal but without a live foal guarantee she's swingin' on that one too. Out of KINDNESS since there's no written contract, you can offer her her money back but by no means are you required to do so. I always take a minimum of 1/3 NON-REFUNDABLE down payment on any horse purchase, without it.....no deal. So, if/until the feed is at 1/3 of the amount she'd reasonably be expected to pay.....pffffffft! Give her back her money and send her packing. 

If it's not your mare that needs putting down, then the other mare owner needs to grow a spine.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Honestly, it doesn't sound like this woman is someone you'd want to do business with. An upfront exchange of cash for a weaned foal, maybe, but not something that has any potential complications. (ETA- Also, someone who has no horse experience who's going around buying multiple foals in utero is a huge red flag to me)

Unless you absolutely cannot afford to feed the mare (and foal once it's born) I'd revise the agreement and let her know that she can buy the foal, for cash, once it's weaned, and you'll buy the mare's feed yourself in the meantime. Repay her for any feed she bought for your mare so far and tell her it's because the vet told you that your mare may not carry to term if that makes it easier to "back out" on the verbal deal.


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## jimmy (Aug 26, 2009)

verona1016 said:


> Honestly, it doesn't sound like this woman is someone you'd want to do business with. An upfront exchange of cash for a weaned foal, maybe, but not something that has any potential complications. (ETA- Also, someone who has no horse experience who's going around buying multiple foals in utero is a huge red flag to me)
> 
> Unless you absolutely cannot afford to feed the mare (and foal once it's born) I'd revise the agreement and let her know that she can buy the foal, for cash, once it's weaned, and you'll buy the mare's feed yourself in the meantime. Repay her for any feed she bought for your mare so far and tell her it's because the vet told you that your mare may not carry to term if that makes it easier to "back out" on the verbal deal.


 I totally agree with Verona ,tell her you have studied the situation and there is too many complications with the deal and if she wants it she can buy it when it's ready to leave the mare,and if she falls out with you over it,what have you lost?she sounds like a crank anyway.


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## angelbkm212 (Aug 27, 2013)

Okay, i would invite her over and construct a written document detailing everything the two of you can think of. The basics should be that you and her would each pay half of the mares costs until the foal is weaned, at which point, the ownership of the foal would transfer to her. Costs include feed, worming, supplements, any vet expenses related to the foal. She would be allowed to visit as long as she contacted you and arranged a time for the visit and how many people would come. If she doesn't want you to handle or train the foal once its born, say thats fine she can train it once its off your property. Make sure you both agree to this, it saves arguements and threats (been there) down the line. Verbal agreements are not concrete and mean very little legally so your daughter is incorrect in that, once the written documents is written go to a justice of the peace or the equivalent and have them act as a witness.


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## cowgirllinda1952 (Apr 15, 2013)

Ok, I am finally back home, and will be drawing up a contract. No, the injured mare was not mine.


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## cowgirllinda1952 (Apr 15, 2013)

Anyway, I am back home on my own computer, and trying to think up a contract that is fair. Just canceling out on everything is not an option, I guess. The woman who wants the foal is my daughters mother in law, and my daughter is beginning to get very upset with me, accusing me of wanting to back out on the deal, her mil is happy and excited, and yes, I do understand all of that, but I'm also not willing to be ran over. The mare is going to the vet to be palpated on the 21st, we don't even know for sure that she is pregnant yet, which I told the lady, and she said she wasn't concerned, because if the stallion bred her, then she HAD to be pregnant. I am now hoping against hope that she is not pregnant and then this whole issue will be moot. What in my opinion was a very loose agreement on my daughters porch, is in my daughters opinion a legally binding contract, and changing it now is seen as me causing trouble and trying to back out. This lady knew I was disabled, so she knew I did not want to raise a foal, so she asked if she could have the foal if she bought the mares feed each week, and I agreed, nothing was said about what if foal was stillborn, aborted, or whatever, they were in a big hurry to leave, and I fully expected to discuss it farther at a later date. She has not given me any trouble yet, but seeing how the issue is going with the party with the other mare, has me worried, plus she is always telling me things her boss says we ought to be doing, what feeds, etc. And unwanted advice from a 20 year old girl who considers herself a horse expert.


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm wondering if there are any updates to this?


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