# First time breeding Questions



## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

LSurb1997 said:


> So I am planning on breeding my mare for a 2018 baby, but I have a few questions first.
> 
> 1. How long does the mare usually stay at the breeders for?
> 2. Is there anything to increase the chance of her getting pregnant?
> ...


I am going to assume that your mare is of breeding quality and that you understand that breeding can be a crap shoot in that there is no guarantee that the resulting foal will be everything that you expected.


I would start with finding a vet experienced in equine reproduction and have your mare examined beforehand and tested for any genetic problems., You should have her checked afterwards for pregnancy and to make sure she is not carrying twins so, you should establish yourself with a good vet.


How long the mare needs to stay varies. If the stud is close by and you know when she is ovulating she doesn't need to stay for long. If he is a distance away it might be practical to have the mare checked for pregnancy before bringing her home.


I like a mare in good condition for breeding but not too fat. Again your vet can guide you with nutrition before and after breeding.


Other than knowing what the stud has been tested for, I like to know what he has produced in the past and what type of mare he has done well with. Some studs put their "stamp" on every foal they produce regardless of the type of mare and others do not
The other thing is the contract and they can vary. Some require a booking fee (non refundable) Some offer a live foal guarantee with a free repeat breeding. Know and understand exactly what the contract is, The same goes for mare care while she is at the stud's.. Know exactly how she will be kept and fed and what the charge will be, also who is responsible for any injury or illness while your mare is in their care.


I am not the most trusting person so I would like to be present when the mare is bred. You wouls also find that educational. Too much to offer on an online post, my best advice is to find a vet to work with you.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

I would definitely go and visit the owners, facilities and stallion first. Make sure he is of breeding quality and that they have a safe set up.
Ask about his progeny and if you can, take a look at them yourself. If you are after something specific with this foal such as color, temperament or talent, his current foals will give you something of an insight into what he is capable of producing (though if you're breeding for color, make sure both the stallion and your mare are tested to see if what you want is even possible. Also just because a stud is a nice color, doesn't always mean he's worth breeding to)
Make sure to get some sort of contract signed guaranteeing conception and if you can, get a live foal guarantee as well (these are usually only valid until the foal stands and nurses). 
Most breeders I know of will have a 1 month boarding fee for the mare (some include it in price, others do not). If they know what they are doing, the mare should be bred within that time and they should witness it. If not, you may need to contact a vet and get her examined. Also, ask them what sort of breeding they do. Is it "in-hand" or pasture? Either works, though pasture is risky depending on the nature of the mare or stallion, as either can cause injury to the other and the breeders aren't guaranteed to witness the actual act.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

1. That depends on what is in the breeding contract and how many breedings it takes to get a positive pregnancy. Some contracts require a mare to stay until confirmed in foal, others let you take the mare home after the last time she stands for the stallion so you are responsible for getting a vet to check her and contact them if she needs to return for another attempt. 

2. Breeding soundness exam, healthy weight, physical fitness, knowing which part of her cycle she ovulates (most mares ovulate towards the end but some mares ovulate at the very beginning which can make them harder to breed as they are easier to miss the time window on -not all stallion owners cover a mare the first day she is receptive), use a stallion that has excellent sperm (high rates of getting all mares pregnant on the first try). 

3. Ask about all genetic testing, each breed has their own nasty genetics and most of the worst is testable so you can prevent it. If you are using a breed known for carrying frame overo (thoroughbred, quarter horse, paint, Appaloosa, miniature, etc) then you also should test your mare and if she is a carrier, don't even consider a stallion that hasn't tested negative for frame no matter how little white he has, it is the master of hiding on solid horses. Ask the stallion owner who their vet is as that is who your mare would see if something were to happen or to do a pregnancy check (ultrasound at around 14-18 days after last cover to check for pregnancy and twins -twins are bad 99.99% of the time and would cancel out any live foal guarantee if you knowingly do nothing when you should have had the vet pinch one twin)


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## LSurb1997 (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm planning on going to check out the stud and where he is at because he's only about an hour away. My mare has been 5 pannel tested and so has the stud. I have a vet that I used for last breeding season when she didn't become pregnant. Long story short they sold the stud I bred her to so no rebreed. My mare is an sorrel overo and she is nO. The horse I'm going to breed her to is a solid qh perlino.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

LSurb1997 said:


> I'm planning on going to check out the stud and where he is at because he's only about an hour away. My mare has been 5 pannel tested and so has the stud. I have a vet that I used for last breeding season when she didn't become pregnant. Long story short they sold the stud I bred her to so no rebreed. My mare is an sorrel overo and she is nO. The horse I'm going to breed her to is a solid qh perlino.


Since the mare is a frame carrier, the stud must be tested negative. Like I said before, frame is the master of hiding on solid horses with little to no white. And with a perlino, it is even harder to identify if he has white markings since all his skin is pink and his coat color is super diluted. Another forum member has a mare whose only white is a star on her forehead and she is a nO tested for frame. Other horses with no white have also tested positive for frame. Better safe than sorry especially when it is a matter of one simple test that can prevent a 1 in 4 tragedy after waiting 11 months for a healthy foal.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Was it ruled out that the mare was not at fault, for that failed breeding?
Besides what others have said, I sure would make sure that your mare is breeding sound


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## LSurb1997 (Jul 26, 2014)

The breeder I took her to took advantage of the fact that it would be my first foal and that I did not know my mares cycle because she is a silent heat. She was bred when she wasn't ready to be bred. The day she came back I noticed she was in heat but they had sold the stud to someone that wanted to breed their horse to him so no rebreed nor a fee.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

LSurb1997 said:


> The breeder I took her to took advantage of the fact that it would be my first foal and that I did not know my mares cycle because she is a silent heat. She was bred when she wasn't ready to be bred. The day she came back I noticed she was in heat but they had sold the stud to someone that wanted to breed their horse to him so no rebreed nor a fee.


Didn't you have a contract with them? Was there any live foal guarantee?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

So, did they AI her when not in heat,or twitch and hobble her for alive cover???
She did not show heat when teased with a stud, yet you saw she was in heat , when she came home?
No contract? Money re funded?
Sounds like a very 'funny situation. Did you pay the breeding fee up front, or just mare care?
I can see no refund, if all you paid was mare care, thus perhaps just a good learning experience, far as looking into a reputable stallion owner the next time


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

LSurb1997 said:


> The breeder I took her to took advantage of the fact that it would be my first foal and that I did not know my mares cycle because she is a silent heat. She was bred when she wasn't ready to be bred. The day she came back I noticed she was in heat but they had sold the stud to someone that wanted to breed their horse to him so no rebreed nor a fee.


 That sounds very unusual.
Mares aren't very receptive to the advances of a stallion when not in heat. At least they didn't charge you.


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## LSurb1997 (Jul 26, 2014)

In the end I paid nothing, Im not sure how the bred her, although I do seem to remember her saying it would be pasture breeding.


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## LSurb1997 (Jul 26, 2014)

Since I'm breeding my paint mare to a qh would I be able to show in both apha and aqha? Also my mare doesn't have very much white but she is still an overo, what are the chances of the foal having paint markings? My mare has a big white spot under her belly and then her neck and a little on her shoulders and of course the big blaze on her face.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

No
Only allowable outcross for an AQHA, is TB, for an appendix
There are some Paints that are dual registered, but they are crop outs from two AQHA parents, and after AQHA changed the white rule, so that any foal born to two AQHA parents, is an AQHA , regardless of color
There thus is one AQHA stud with a loud Appaloosa coloring
Cropouts (those AQHA horses that formerly had too much white for AQHA papers, and were thus put into the Paint registry, I believe, no longer can get APHA ,as papers, as APHA, in response to the change in the AQHA white rule, put in a rule that a paint foal now has to have one Paint parent (might b ewrong on that last point,according to latest rule inof I just read, with link below )
I guess if you bred to an AQHA, that got dual papers, in that time period of changing rules, then you should be able to register your foal in both registries, and show in both
Far as Paint markings, you will need to find someone more familiar with Paint coat patterns of inheritance, chime in here, as I raised Appaloosas, and did not thus worry about it

http://gohorseshow.com/2015/04/conf...pha-registration-rules-find-out-details-here/


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

LSurb1997 said:


> Since I'm breeding my paint mare to a qh would I be able to show in both apha and aqha? Also my mare doesn't have very much white but she is still an overo, what are the chances of the foal having paint markings? My mare has a big white spot under her belly and then her neck and a little on her shoulders and of course the big blaze on her face.


The only way to show a foal out of an APHA registered mare at AQHA shows is if the mare was double registered APHA and AQHA as well as the sire of the foal being AQHA registered. 

The chance of a overo marked foal is a complete gamble as there is no way to guarantee that any inherited overo gene will be expressed at all or if it does express, how much it will express. Solid quarter horses can produce a loudly marked overo foal (a main reason for the beginnings of APHA) and loudly expressed overos frequently produce solid offspring. There is no rhyme or reason, overo pinto coloring is the most difficult to breed for which is a reason as to why pinto breeders have a strong preference for tobianos as it is extremely rare for a tobiano to be so minimally expressed that they don't qualify for sufficient white to be considered pinto. Most overos are not expressed loud enough to be considered pinto (they have typical face white and/or leg white). 

If you breed an overo paint mare to a solid quarter horse, you have a really good chance of getting a foal that is not pinto but there is a relatively small chance that the foal will not only inherit at least 1 overo gene (splash/sabino/frame) but also express it loud enough to get full APHA color papers.


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## FrostedLilly (Nov 4, 2012)

This sounds like a strange situation. Are you sure you want to go back to these people after they "took advantage" the last time? Anyway, that aside, I'm not a breeder, but I can share my experience. 

1. Length of Time: My mare stayed at the breeder for a month. I had been keeping track of her cycles for several months so I knew when I dropped her off, she'd have about 3 - 4 days to get accustomed to her new surroundings, before she was due to go into heat. The stallion was a 2 hour drive away, so I left her there for the month to see if she showed up in heat again. When she did not, I took her to the vet to confirm pregnancy (which she was). You can usually confirm pregnancy within two weeks of breeding if you don't want her to spend that much time at the breeders. I likely would have done that, but the distance to pick her up and then go to the vet and potentially have to take her back again was prohibitive. She was also hand-bred, so I knew her precise cover dates. 

2: Increasing odds of success: not a ton you can do here, but getting to know when and for how long she goes into heat is helpful. When I dropped my mare off, I told the breeder when I estimated her to be going into heat, so she was able to plan as well and coordinate with the other mares she had. It was also useful knowing the number of days between her heat cycles because the breeder then knew that if she didn't catch, when she should show signs of heat again. I'm 'lucky' in that when my mare is in heat, everyone within a 10 mile radius knows. So while that doesn't necessarily increase your chances of success, it makes success more definable. Other than that, having your mare fit and in good condition while not being under or overweight is probably best as well as the usual being utd on deworming and vaccinations. You don't need to make any changes in diet. 

3: Some of these are already mentioned, but to reiterate, you should probably have a breeding contract so there are clear expectations on what happens if your mare doesn't catch, is injured or doesn't produce a live foal. Some stallion owners guarantee a live foal and if that doesn't happen will do a free rebreed the next year, or do a discounted re-breed and I've heard some will waive other fees like mare care. And find out what mare care is. Most that I've seen (which isn't a ton) will charge a flat daily fee for hand feeding and a reduced fee or no fee if they're just on pasture. Since your mare is positive for Frame, it's in your best interest to ask the stallion be tested for frame if he hasn't been already. Frame doesn't always express obviously and can look like 'regular' white markings as others have said. It costs $25 at UC Davis. I would also ask him to see offspring by that stallion and what they have accomplished. Have they been easy to train? What are their minds like? What disciplines do they excel in? What is the stallion bred for and what has he accomplished?

And unfortunately, it is not possible to tell how much a white pattern will express. My filly is actually a good example. Her dam is solid brown/bay who was n/n for frame, splash, sabino and tobiano with a small star and 3 medium height white socks. Sire was a black and white tobiano (n/TO) with a small star and broken strip and is about 50/50 for white to black ratio . My filly is a max tobiano, being about 90% white with a large star, large strip and snip that covers almost her entire nose and lower lip. My guess was if I got any colour at all, it would be minimal, and maybe go as far as being the same as her sire. I never imagined I would get almost all white. While tobiano is a little more reliable than frame for expression, you really never know to what degree you're going to get it.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Subbing because I want to contribute but don't have time right this minute.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

1. How long does the mare usually stay at the breeders for? 

I like to keep an outside mare until she is confirmed in foal to the stallion and no twinning is found, so roughly 20 days post breeding. I offer a monthly charge for those who will leave their mare until we know for sure she's good to go, rather than just multiplying the daily mare care fee.

2. Is there anything to increase the chance of her getting pregnant? 

A reputable breeder will probably require a culture and cytology result, before breeding the mare. In older mares they may require a cervical biopsy to make sure she's still breedable. I would start her under lights now, if you can do that. If not, if the breeder has the facilities, you might want to send her early so she's under lights and will be cycling when you're ready to breed her next year. 

3.What are some questions I should ask the stud owner before breeding? 

Get ALL the fees in writing. Get a signed Contract. Get copies of all genetic testing results. Make sure the stallion has tested negative for Frame, since your mare carries it. Ask questions about their facilities, the stallions accomplishments, get a LFG and/or LCFG if you're breeding to a stallion that is supposed to throw color. Find out who their vet is, what charges there will be on that end. Ask for copies of show records or roping or cutting competition records. Ask for pics of his foals. Find out what the breeder thinks the stallion's strong points are, what his weak points are, and what kind of mare he nicks best with.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

What Dreamcatcher said, plus for the LF guarantee, make sure you understand your part in that agreement. Some stallion owners will require proof, should your mare abort, that Rhino was given at the appropriate times 
If your mare needs to be re bred, the following year, there has to be a clause , far as in event of that Stallion's death, or not being able to breed.
If sold, does the new owner honor any re breedings, or do you get a refund


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