# Spooking to get out of work?



## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Horses do not spook to get out of work. Period. Spooking is an instinctual act of preservation and when the horse spooks he thinks he's gonna die. That's how prey animals think, that's how they live, and it's how they are programed to survive.


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## Kadiel (Mar 28, 2008)

I agree with the above post. 

'Spooking is an instinctual act of preservation...'

But there are also some very intelligent horses about there. It is possible he has realized the connection between spooking and work.

I have to ask if he spooks at something other than a cow does he react in the same way?

If he reacts the same I would think he is just being a horse and is generally spooking. If h reacts some what differently I might guess he's just playing up and not spooking.

But all that said I think he might just be generally scared of them while you’re on him for some reason.

Hope that helps.


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## arastangrider (Jan 5, 2008)

whenever my horse gets bored he starts spooking at stuff usally he does it at the walk though like it's an excuse to move fast without getting into trouble


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## daroczy (Feb 14, 2008)

I agree with Kadiel, I think your horse is just playing. He just wants to run with the cows, it's the spirit of the horde.

Can you stop him after spooking? How much time does it takes? How long does he run? And what do you do exactly
1. when you see the cow running towards you and you try to prevent the spooking

2. when he has spooked and you are on his back?

Do you ride together with other horses? Does this gelding the same when another horse is gallopping towards him?


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

to elaborate a little more on what spirithorse said: i wouldnt say its a case of trying to get out of work. 

as said, horses are prey animals and spooking is a self preservation method. their eyesight and hearing is adapted so that they will both see and hear any possible predator threats. they will on many occasions spook at things they can see or hear but we cannot. there may well be something there that upsets him but is only a "threat" or visible to him from where you ride. thats why its a good idea to find what it is and work him through learning that the scary tree/bush/light pole or whatever, is not a monster and will not eat him


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Spirithorse said:


> Horses do not spook to get out of work. Period. Spooking is an instinctual act of preservation and when the horse spooks he thinks he's gonna die. That's how prey animals think, that's how they live, and it's how they are programed to survive.


I would have to disagree with spirithorse on this one. Yes, that is why they spook, but I don't think that's always the case. Haven't you ever seen horses playing around in the pasture? they'll run around, buck, and shy at things for fun. And I've known a couple of horses that spook to get out of work. In 2 cases it was because their owner would be riding, the horse would spook, the rider would get off. Sometimes they'd lunge, sometimes they wouldn't. Horses learn very quickly how to get out of work! Another mare would spook when she was bored. She was a highly intelligant horse that needs a lot of variety and unless you keep her challenged she would spook. I don't know if that's what's happening with your horse. I don't know him and I've never seen him go, but don't rule it out! I'm glad that you're keeping him working. If he's spooking to get out of work, that's the best thing for it. Try to give him a lot of variety to so he has to be thinking about other things. Also make sure that you aren't being tense with your body in case he is legitimately afraid.


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## horsestar8100 (Mar 4, 2008)

To answer daroczy, I do stop him from spooking (my instructor has never had to step in and help me when he's been spooking), I try and nip it in the bud before he can completely spook, if I can't I usually try and stop him in a few strides, However if an area isn't safe (mud or puddles with the possiblility of slipping), I look for an area that I can stop him. I generally get him stopped (weather is now clearing up, and the arena isn't as gooy), in 10 -15 seconds. The only time the cows run, was that one time last tuesday. If it's a nice, bright, sunny day, their usually laying down and crewing their cude. And even if they do come to the fence, they walk up, and it's usually the calves that come up. After they get older, they really don't come to the fence. And yes he spooks when I'm riding him, he has yet to spook when I'm leading to him. And the way that this property is set up, other horses can't gallop towards him, and even if one did appear at the other fence line, it would just be one horse, and he's been stabled next to the horse for a long time, and I to happen to know this horse very well, and he to is old. I take private lessons, mainly to have the instructors undivided attention on me, to work with me and any issues that come up, rather than have three or four other horses share the same arena. 

Kadiel he isn't scared of them. He sees them every single day, because his stall faces the cows pasture. If he was scared of them, he wouldn't be weaving (remember formal show horse, and he really was valuable, so they couldn't let him out of his stall could they :roll: ), or have his head out the door alseep. I've even walked with him passed the cows when he's been all tacked up, and he just seems to give me a 'Okay why are we over here looking at the cows?' He's relaxed as can be and enjoys being ridden, he'll have drool in the corners of his mouth, not nearly as much as the mare that I ride, but shows he's willing. If he was scared of the cows, he'd resist me, or get all tense, or try and take off, but he follows me, looks, and stays relaxed. 

Spirithorse I agree with you on the whole self preservation thing, but I have seen horses that will do things to get out of being handled or worked with. The place I used to volunteer my time at, had a horse, he was a Qtr horse, and had thrown his owner (a 15 yr old girl), and after that she was terrified of him. He soon became agressive, because he knew he could push her around. The dad of the girl had put him into training, hoping this would curve his bad behavior. Thing was, if you let this horse now, than and there, you weren't going to tolerate any S**t from him, he was perfectly fine. He just acted that way when he knew people weren't going to stand their ground. He was smart, and he figured out that if he bullied his owner, she wouldn't touch him. Needless to say, he got sold to an intermidiate person for, if I remember correctly, something like $2,400, he was fine other wise. You just had to let him know, you were the boss, than he was perfectly fine. 

jazzyrider, nothing bugs him, not the wind, the rain mist stuff that came down last tuesday, even if something did bug him, and he spooked, we'd turn that negative into a positive (such as stopping for him to take a breather in that spot, or at the end of the lesson, to dismount, and walk to get his lead rope). And if he did show overly concern at something, depending on what it was (I can tell from the way his ears are, and the position they take if he thinks its going to eat him or if it's a concern and he'll watch it.) If, by his ears and the way he feels that it will eat him or if he's looking into the other pastures, I'll stop him and just let him look. Than after he realizes that it isn't going to lunge at him, he'll go back to work. If he shows any conern, it's usually in the first 5-10 minutes before the lesson starts, after that I raise an eyebrow, unless it's a cow or his girl friend he can see (yes he's a gelding, but he's convinced he's in love with a white arab mare that I also ride).

I would also like to point out that I have his undivided attention throughout the lesson, unless he decides to spook. I also do different things, like transitions, weaving through the cones, going over ground polls etc. I'm going to see if he's better today, he was doing so well last tuesday, showing no concern for anything or being fussy, but when the rainy mist stuff came, well that went down the tubes...... I really enjoy riding him, his gaits are smooth and rolling and the only thing you have to do is give encouragement to keep him going, or else he dies. I'd also like to point out he is smart, a couple of times when I want him to canter, I give the correct aids, a kiss, and a slight tap on the flanks with the excess of the split reins (their knotted together), and he'll only trot faster. One time he did this, I'm passive aggressive, constantly turning up the heat and giving the horse plenty of chances to do what I ask, one time he just made me mad, and I nailed him with the ends of the reins, he knew I was serious after that. It's easier to get him to canter from the walk, not the trot (he may just trot faster and do a very extended trot, he can book it if you make him). He'll also pull stunts like being heavy on one side (last tuesday we were doing CHA levels, and he was being a butt, and was leaning heavily to the left, I was trying for him to get off my left leg, he wouldn't, it wasn't until my instructor came over, and jabbed him a few good ones in his side, did he give and strighten himself). I just think that him spooking is just him testing the waters, to see how far I'll let him go and for how long..... Again, I'll have to see how he is today..... I hope it was like last tuesday, until the rainy misty stuff came..... I wish I had a pic of that, you couldn't see the cow barn and it ony had to be what? 50ft away +/-. It was horrible, and than after that I got sick for a day...... Have any questions and I'll try and answer them the best I can.


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## Bitless (Jan 11, 2008)

I must agree with Spirit Horse onthis, Horses dont spook to get out of work. 


> In 2 cases it was because their owner would be riding, the horse would spook, the rider would get off.


The reason they would spook when being ridden is because they have been taught to not that they purely didnt want to work. The owners in those senarios taught the horse to spook when being ridden by getting off. Horses learn these things purely because of our owners constant mistakes, the horse therfor isnt the problem its the rider/owner. As in alomt all 'problem' horses.

Purhaps the reason your horse doesnt spook when your leading him is because you are there right beside him, therefor he is more comforted. The same as why he doesnt spook when in his stall, he feels safer there, same as if you are by his side. When you are riding he possible will be feeling more like he has to rely on his own instincts.

Now i have a spooky horse he used to be really bad, and snort and shy at every thing, spin around and try and take off in the opposite direction as fast as he could( sometimes poping in a buck or 2 ). I found the best thing that worked in getting him over this was to actualy ignor the shy that he did. If we rode past somthing and he shyed i didnt look at whatever it was scaring him and i just kept asing him forward, keeping things as normal as possible, and trying not to react at all to his fear or to what was scaring him. Once past whatever it was, even it it took a little while, he would get praised, but only once he wasnt nurvos any more. As you have to becarefull not to praise the nurvous behaviour. 
It worked extremely well for him to the point my 8yr old cousin could ride him down the beach, troting and a little canter no lead ( me watching tho of course. ) I even took him out yesteday after 5months of no riding at all and he was great!

So basicly dont acknowlege what they are afraid of and dont react to them shying. Let them feed off your reaction. If the horse spooks when your walking and runs forward, just calmly bring him back to a walk and carry on like nothing happened. If you dont react they will see no reason to either. You are the leader so they should be following your example. By reacting to there fear you are only going to further upset or confuse them. 

Its like when you take an experienced horse out with a young or green one. Its because the experienced one wont react and is comfortable with its surroundings there for is the example for the youger one, thats what you need to be.

Hope that helps. Just speaking from my experience.


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## funnygal (Jan 2, 2008)

From reading your initial post, I am still having a hard time figuring out if he is really spooking, or if that is perhaps the wrong word? It sounds to me more that he is a really, really smart horse and tries this as a tactic to get out of work.

My gelding is super quiet, calm, bombproof...but to get out of work will test me with tactics like cantering me too close to the fence, cantering me to the gate and then stopping, speeding up. It's not spooking, it's pretty intelligent tactics in the hopes I'll slow down or stop (which I did as a beginner, but don't anymore! :twisted: )

The cows don't seem to bother him otherwise.?? Maybe you can elaborate on exactly why you think it's "spooking"...does he just "lose it?" or act frightened or spooked?


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## horsestar8100 (Mar 4, 2008)

Bitless, I have never  gotten off of him after he has spooked, and from my knowledge no one else has. Than again, they've had this horse what? 7 years, and he's I think 21, so it could be a possibility, before the _ experienced_ owners got him. But even if he did have problems, they have experienced riders that could easily sort out any unruly horse, and they have an instructor (my current instructor) that rides, and trains horses. And it's not like she hasn't hopped on one of the horses before. When Mr. Hard head (not his real name, horse I fell off of), was giving me issues when I was first riding him, she brught out her helmet, motivation stick, and the look on his face was priceless, he knew what she was going to do. Work his butt into the ground. And if he did shy or spook at something, we make him work past it, making him keep his focus on his rider, because his rider should pose more of a 'threat' than what ever he shied or spooked at. And I do praise, at the correct time (used to ground train alot, verbal praise, is a trainers best friend), and when he did spook last tuesday, I sat deep in the saddle, chocked up on my right rein and spun him around. The whole time I was calm. Because I expected it.

funnygal I'll try and explain the best I can. Sometimes he'll just bolt, giving no warning. Other times his ears will be perked forward, he'll look at the object, and go into hyper drive. Other times I can feel him, and work him in a circle until he composes himself.

Today my instructor threw me a curve ball, she made me ride a horse that I fell off a month or so ago, and surpringly I was relaxed and only focused at the tasks at hand. I didn't even think about not making it, but I still gave her the :shock: you really are trying to kill me aren't you, look. And surprisingly he was all calm and relaxed, I even have to get the motivation stick (crop), and kick him to get his butt to move, usually he's like Weeeeeeeeeee, and I'm like To fast! Slow down already! And I have to use my reins to tell him to take it down acouple of notches, but he remained calm, no spooking or anything...... I'm still suspecious though, than again the sun was out and it was warm....... (call the record books! Sun it actually showed it's self! It isn't a myth at all!)


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## Bitless (Jan 11, 2008)

I was kinda speaking in general in my first paragraph not directly to you( sorry that wasnt clear enough ) but that was good to know abit more about the situation relating to you.  



> funnygal I'll try and explain the best I can. Sometimes he'll just bolt, giving no warning. Other times his ears will be perked forward, he'll look at the object, and go into hyper drive. Other times I can feel him, and work him in a circle until he composes himself.


From that description im kinda leaning towards funnygals suspisions.....its doesnt really sound like hes spooking. one thing i noticed with my guy was what ever he was scared of at least one of his ears would be on the scary thing the whole time, the other focused on me until we were completelty past it then his hears went back to normal...unless hed tried to run...then his ears were back :roll: . Your guy might be different but it does sound like somthing else , spooking. hmmmm. 

Do you or are you able to get a video of you riding him? 

Also at 21 has his ears or eyes ever been tested? Possibley not that but could be an issue there causing him to have odd times of startlement.....? 

Also are you able to elaborate on his body language at the times he does this? Ears, eyes, tail, tence or not...that kind of thing??


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I didn't read this post hardly at all but i just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I have a pony that spooks to scare people so they are more likely to get off.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Im tired so i don't feel like writing a book, but here you go:
I don't think he's spooking to get out of work. However, I DO think you are helping him spook.
You've mentioned several times that you 'know it's coming' so you tense up on the reins and pull him to a stop, or whatever. Horse's feel that change in your body, and go, 'omg, what's she scared of? Crap, RUN!' My horse does this with cars; my arena is along a road. If my mom rides him, when a car comes by she grabs a little bit of the rein 'just in case' and my LAZY horse goes 'AH OMG IM GOING TO DIE!' but when I ride, the cars don't bother him at all. When he's with my mom, you can tell he really IS scared... but when he's with me, I don't look at the cars so neither does he.
The worst thing to do with spooking is to make a deal out of it. Hey, every time he spooks... you 'stop him in 10-15 seconds'. ... Every time he gets scared he gets to stop! For some horses, that's enough reward to do it again. So here's what I think you /should/ do:
Ignore the cows. Don't look at them, don't know where they are, nothing.
Ride past them like they weren't there. If he spooks, just GENTLY put him back to the rail or to the speed you want, or maybe do a gentle, big 20-meter circle and continue on.
DON'T anticipate the spook!
Basically, ignore it. Don't pull him to a stop, or anything. Sooner or later, when you ignore it and continue on with business as usual, he will too. Sometimes I laugh when my horse spooks at silly things, and continue on with work--I don't think he's ever spooked at something twice in a row.  Once he knows that you're a calm leader, he'll be more apt to follow your role!
Good luck!


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## daroczy (Feb 14, 2008)

I agree the last you wrote, Mayfieldk.

Let's see what we all turned out about this horse:
Why to spooke?

1. It's sure he is not spooking of fear because then you wouldn't be able to stop him. Really frighetened horses cannot be stopped after a few meters canter.

2. If he wants to get out of work, there would be a simplier way to do this. You usually don't fall when he spooks. If he doesn't want to work, he would rear or buck or refuse the exercises and so on.

He does it because he thinks it's good. As mayfieldk wrote he might think that you would like him to spooke and you confirm it with your body. You stop the exercise you are doing , you become nervous, stop the horse and so on.

So what to do in my opinion? 

To prevent the all thing (before spooking):
When you see a cow running towards you, pretend that you cannot see it. Continue the exercise you are doing (trotting, small circle or anything you are doing). Even if you are in canter, don't get him back to trot or walk. By this behaviour you will suggest the horse:
*"I don't see any reason to do something else, lets go on with the work." *And inside you must be prepared what to do if he spooks against all those things i've written.
If he does not spook, reward him somehow, let him have a bit walk or evengive him a small piece of carrot. By his way you will suggest him:
*"Good, that's what I wanted."*

When he is spooking (during spooking):
You must tell him by your body language: 
*"This is not the one I asked from you! You are doing it wrong, stop this urgently and get back t work."*Stop him as fast as you can, even by using your hand and weight a bit more harder. You have won when you can stop the spooking after 3-4 canter leaps.
You've loosed if he spooks for a total round. 

After spooking:
Never get him back to walk or to totally stop. If you were trotting before spooking, gat him back t trot, but not to walk. If you were cantering before spooking, gt him back to slow canter. If you were doing small circle or something, get him back to this. After finishing that exercise, give him another one. You suggest this:
*"You've done it wrong but this is no reason to pause the riding."* By giving him more exercises you can suggest him: *"Can you see what you've achieved with your wrong behavior?"*


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

I didn't take the time to read all the fine print in this post  but for whatever its worth my dumas will spook to get you to put him up or just get off for a while. He's wise beyond his years ( he's 8) :roll: and very level headed the only thing i've ever had him truely spook for is a bobcat. The rest of the time he's just messin'


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

intelligent horse...every horse out there has tried that trick at some point or another. It's all about recognizing when its geniune fear and when its playing and act according to that.

Some horses just need to be kept busy, others should be ignored.


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## horsestar8100 (Mar 4, 2008)

daroczy
"To prevent the all thing (before spooking): 
When you see a cow running towards you, pretend that you cannot see it." I'm so used to them, I don't even pay them any attention. I'm used to them running around, and not the two horses (one is 28, and another one I think is 22) have never acted the way he does, even if the cows are right on the fence. Even moving they don't care.


"Continue the exercise you are doing (trotting, small circle or anything you are doing). Even if you are in canter, don't get him back to trot or walk." One time we were cantering around my instructor (picking up and dropping my stirrups), than he pulled a spooking on me, I got him under control and made him canter again. 

" By this behaviour you will suggest the horse: 
"I don't see any reason to do something else, lets go on with the work." And inside you must be prepared what to do if he spooks against all those things i've written. 
If he does not spook, reward him somehow, let him have a bit walk or evengive him a small piece of carrot. By his way you will suggest him: 
"Good, that's what I wanted." " And that's what I do, if he's cantered nicely (collected and doing his rocking horse ability. Sooooo smooth, almost like doing a rocking horse) I'll trot him for a few strides, than allow him to walk around, and since I ride western, I have long reins, and I usually give him all of the rein (he hasn't pulled anything at the walk), and I allow him to walk a strtch for a few minutes. I always pet and stroke my horses on both sides of their necks. I also give verbal praises and let them know what they did was what I wanted. With the gray gelding, he never wants to pick up the canter, there is nothing wrong with him for him not to pick up the canter. And when he does, when he's doing it I tell him what a good boy he is (especially when he does it the first time I ask, not the twentith.... :roll: ) 

"When he is spooking (during spooking): 
You must tell him by your body language: 
"This is not the one I asked from you! You are doing it wrong, stop this urgently and get back t work."Stop him as fast as you can, even by using your hand and weight a bit more harder. You have won when you can stop the spooking after 3-4 canter leaps. 
You've loosed if he spooks for a total round." I try when I can. Where I live it is very wet. And this is an out door arena, so it isn't uncommon for a portion of the arena to be marked off because it's either frozen or too gooey. When the rainy mist came down, I reacted quickly, I turned him fast, only to realize the area I was turning him was becoming mud, so I gave him some of his head back so he could rebalance himself (I didn't want him or myself to fall over), and when he did, I took back the rein I gave him, worked the opposite way, and I did a larger reverse than I wanted, again, some portions that are reknown for becoming mud, and that area was becoming muddy not necessaryly gooey, got him close to the rail and made him canter again, and when he went past it calmly, I transitioned downward to a working/posting trot. Along the rail is fine, it hardly ever get's gooey, and than I trotted him both ways, than walked. Than we had to go in after doing a forehand turn, because it wouldn't stop. Why am I not surprised :roll: . I remain relaxed when he's spooking. 

A"fter spooking: 
Never get him back to walk or to totally stop. If you were trotting before spooking, gat him back t trot, but not to walk. If you were cantering before spooking, gt him back to slow canter. If you were doing small circle or something, get him back to this. After finishing that exercise, give him another one. You suggest this: 
"You've done it wrong but this is no reason to pause the riding." By giving him more exercises you can suggest him: "Can you see what you've achieved with your wrong behavior?"" We do this all the time with horses that spook, we make them work harder, longer, and in the grays case at faster gaits, usually the posting trot. I weave through cones, barrels, and polls if their out. I don't excuse any spooking, for any reason. I just evaluate and see how hard they need to be worked :twisted: . 

I think two times it was genuine fear, and I stopped him both times, chocked up on the reins, and made him go into a circle. Not saying that all horses can be stopped, but my experience is, you can if you know what buttons to push. For him it's getting in a circle, no matter how hard you have to pull on his mouth (he has a sensitive mouth, so it doesn't take that much force. And I only use enough to get his attention, which isn't a lot.), than repeatedly digging my heel into his side until he yeilds and doesn't fight. I don't have spurs on so I don't have to worry about hurting him. I only use enough pulling on the bit, and heel pressure, until he get's into a small circle, and is obviously paying attention to me. 

I should also mention that when I started to ride him, for the first few lessons he would spook 3-4 times.... :shock: ..... now he only does it once, perhaps twice. But twice is the max. I think he's starting to figure out that I won't allow him to spook, no matter what, and that he should listen to me at all times. If any horse isn't paying attention to me or is trying to predict my movements, I screw with their minds, horse wants to go right, I'll have them go left, if the horse wants to trot, I'll have them do a slow collected walk :twisted: . Show them to try and predict my movements. :twisted: Screwing with horse heads, gotta love it. Than you should see their ears. They almost seem to say 'Hey! This isn't part of the pattern!' I'll do the things that horses don't necessarly like to do, but I want to do. Change things up and make sure their listening to me and not any one else or anything else.

Before I got switched to the dun horse that I fell off of, because this horse is so da_n smart, he'll do what the instructor talks, she'll just tell me to transition down ward to the next gait, as not to tip the horse off, even when she tells me what to do, I still make him work at the gait I'm currently at, until I want to do what she wants (usually in what 10 strides I do. Depends on how well he's doing). She even told me that it should be my idea, not his. And usually he's persistant :roll: , no surprise there.......

I always tell myself to relax, even when he is spooking. That nothing will come from the situation if I loose my cool.


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## daroczy (Feb 14, 2008)

Well, about the things you wrote I think you are now half way to teach him not to spooke. But unfortunatley this might become to a bad habit. That means, you can cure it totally with patient and calm work, but when another rider will ride on the horse or you don't ride him for a longer time, bad habits can reappear. Good luck!


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