# What size singletree for my Belgian



## TimberRidgeRanch

couldnt your uncle help you in this area since he competes with them. He is close to you and should be able to help you choose the right equipment. Good Luck oh and post pics please lol


TRR


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## Saddlebag

You want the singletree wide enough that the traces aren't constantly rubbing the horse's legs.


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## HunterbrooksFarm

Like I said I've tried calling him, and can't get ahold of him. about a month ago I transferred out to michigan from maine. He lives in Maine, I'm in Michigan so just running over there to see what size she needs is out of the question. I can't really talk to the lady I bought her from about what size she needs as she was just going to use her for a Brood Mare embryo host for her Fresians. Being new to the area and not knowing anyone in the area who pulls kinda puts a damper on that. I have some experience in pulling as I know how to put the harness on, dropping the double tree down onto the hook of the stoneboat, very minimal driving experience. Its just one of those things that you just over look when your just around it every once in a while trying to help and learn. I've never asked him what size/how to measure. Just always assumed there was a set standard. Now that I own my own Belgian and want to get started into doing some Obstacle course style log twitching events I just want to make sure I'm doing it right. I found a sight with single trees and double trees and was going to order one as I can't find one for sale on craigslist. Does that Explain my situation, I just want to hurry up an get to pulling/working with my horse.


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## HunterbrooksFarm

so If I just measure her width at her widest point and maybe add an inch or two I should be ok is that what your saying saddlebag?


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## HunterbrooksFarm

Here she is in all her glory, she's been on pasture all summer and has the paunch to prove it.


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## goodhors

Put the harness on her, run the traces out behind. Have a second person to help you. Get something like a stick or rod of metal, to run the traces back and attach to. One person holds the stick or rod with traces pulled back like she was hitched. Other person goes up beside horse, moves the traces wider so they are not touching her sides. You then mark the stick or rod with both places traces are located and not rubbing her sides. That will give you a measurement for the width.

I am betting her sides are wider than her hindquarters, from viewing the photo. You want the singletree wide enough to prevent any rubbing her sides as horse goes ahead.

Where in Michigan are you located? With the Indiana Amish so close, most folks buy a lot from them for Draft horses, pieces/parts needed for vehicles and pulling. There are also Michigan Amish groups up past the midway point in the middle of the State, that might be closer to get help from. 

You may want a steel singletree for pulling logs, less chance to get broken or wet in our weather, plus handle the weight of logs.


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## Left Hand Percherons

A 30 inch collar on a mare is huge. My 18 hand mare uses a 25 inch and the smaller horses are in 23/24. I would remeasure her with 2 squares. If she does need a larger collar than she will also need larger hames. 1-2 inches longer than the collar. (bottom of the hame to the middle rachet.) I do have a 30 ” set for sale. 


A 32” single tree will work fine. My singles are 30 and 31”. Doubles drop down to 28”.

Fi is a nice feminine looking mare. She is fluffy and will add/lose inches around her neck as she gets in shape so don't spend too much on equipment until she get's fitter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigGreyHorse

Lovely mare. Is it just me or does she look pregnant?


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## Centaurheart

Get out a take measure after you hang the harness on her and measure her out yourself. A bunch of people on a forum will offer you a bunch of numbers, but none of them will be as correct as the actual measurement.

My mare is huge and took a thirty collar. It was not adjustable, but I always buy larger and add a pad for comfort. Be sure to store your collars hanging upside down so they don't loose their shape.


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## Clayton Taffy

This Chart is a good referance, Might need to make slight adjustments, but I would not go smaller than 36" on a draft. This chart reads a 36" singletree for a 17 HH horse.

American Driving Society

PS your girl looks lovely!


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## goodhors

I would agree with the two Draft people who said to measure the horse. Drafts come in LOTS of body styles, sizings, so you want to only buy once. Saves time and shipping on returns or trips to the harness shop.

Chart for width of singletrees is probably for carriage driving, pleasure vehicles. Wide singletrees are part of the system for antique vehicles, harness systems using old methods. A Draft might need a 36" width in real life, but might not. 

Just so you know, my Sporthorse equines of 17H, do NOT need a singletree that wide. Not on the antique vehicles and not on the modern metal vehicles. They are not small bodied horses, but sure not that wide. That width would be like airplane wings behind them and we would NEVER fit thru some gates in Hazards! Sure would prevent any rubbing of their traces though!!


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## Clayton Taffy

As I stated Goodhors, It is a reference, and adjustments might have to be made.

As she is not using the singletree for an antique vehicle and not going through hazzards with it, but pulling logs and skids. I stand by not going smaller than 36".


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## GreySorrel

goodhors said:


> I would agree with the two Draft people who said to measure the horse. Drafts come in LOTS of body styles, sizings, so you want to only buy once. Saves time and shipping on returns or trips to the harness shop.
> 
> Chart for width of singletrees is probably for carriage driving, pleasure vehicles. Wide singletrees are part of the system for antique vehicles, harness systems using old methods. A Draft might need a 36" width in real life, but might not.
> 
> Just so you know, my Sporthorse equines of 17H, do NOT need a singletree that wide. Not on the antique vehicles and not on the modern metal vehicles. They are not small bodied horses, but sure not that wide. That width would be like airplane wings behind them and we would NEVER fit thru some gates in Hazards! Sure would prevent any rubbing of their traces though!!


Your true Goodhors that draft horses and light horses are different in a lot of ways, so are what we do with them vs just fine driving. 

If you want OP, tomorrow morning when I go out to the harness shed, I can measure the singletree that I use on my Percheron draft team...in fact let me do that tonight while I am thinking about it as we use them to pull logs, skids, wagons, carts and carriages.


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## GreySorrel

Alright...my single tree I use for a single draft is 33" long. For the team I use one that is 48" long and both sizes are for Percheron mares that measure 17.2H and are approximately 1750lbs. When someone hasn't worked with a large working draft horse, they often don't know what kind of equipment we use or really what it is for and the purpose behind it. Be sure that the single tree's are made of a good hard wood such as oak. Start slow with your mare and work up her stamina and strength, but I am sure your uncle has taught you well. 

Taffy, while your intentions were good, you do fine driving, we do work with our draft horses and I mean that as no disrespect but you honestly don't have a clue as to what size we need because of your fine driving experience. And it is an honest mistake that many who are more involved with fine driving and light horses make. 

This is from the DRAFT HORSE site where we order much of our working equipment and harness. The owner of the store is a very knowledgeable man, he has been involved with draft horses for years, if you need help with anything, look him up and give him a shout, they are great folks to work with. I believer that Gary himself has Belgians too. 

This is from the Draft Horse Super Store web site:*
18” or 20" are for miniatures**
22” or 24” Pony sizes**
26” or 28” Mules, Haflinger, Saddle horses**
30” Draft cross**
32” or 34" Draft**
**36” XL Draft over 2200 lbs*
*
*
*
*​


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## GreySorrel

*CORRECTION*....disregard the 48" one...that is my double tree...been a long day and I am tired. Homework, son enlisting in the Army, and farm chores does that to you....but my single tree IS 33" long.


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## Clayton Taffy

GreySorrel said:


> Alright...my single tree I use for a single draft is 33" long. For the team I use one that is 48" long and both sizes are for Percheron mares that measure 17.2H and are approximately 1750lbs. When someone hasn't worked with a large working draft horse, they often don't know what kind of equipment we use or really what it is for and the purpose behind it. Be sure that the single tree's are made of a good hard wood such as oak. Start slow with your mare and work up her stamina and strength, but I am sure your uncle has taught you well.
> 
> Taffy, while your intentions were good, you do fine driving, we do work with our draft horses and I mean that as no disrespect but you honestly don't have a clue as to what size we need because of your fine driving experience. And it is an honest mistake that many who are more involved with fine driving and light horses make.
> 
> This is from the DRAFT HORSE site where we order much of our working equipment and harness. The owner of the store is a very knowledgeable man, he has been involved with draft horses for years, if you need help with anything, look him up and give him a shout, they are great folks to work with. I believer that Gary himself has Belgians too.
> 
> This is from the Draft Horse Super Store web site:
> *18” or 20" are for miniatures*
> *22” or 24” Pony sizes*
> *26” or 28” Mules, Haflinger, Saddle horses*
> *30” Draft cross*
> *32” or 34" Draft*
> *36” XL Draft over 2200 lbs*


Grey Sorrel don't assume because I do "fine Driving" Which is hardly what I do, as I have never driven Hackneys or Saddlebreds, or Saddlesaet Morgans in a show ring, which is what Fine driving is. You are going as far as being condecending to me as I said I would not use a single tree less than 36", which I still would not, pulling logs or a skid. Lets be nasty over 2" okay. 

My Fine Driving Draft is 19.1 HH and 2300 pounds, Now you say I don't have a clue as to driving Drafts, I suggest You hold your tounge before you spew forth remarks that might make you look, well, not having a clue as to what you are talking about. I have shown drafts at the Missouri state Fair, Illinois State Fair, Oklahoma State Fair, Ozark Empire Fair, Frainklin, Lincoln, Jefferson, Washington county Fairs, St louis National and several local driving and riding shows. I have taken my Drafts to Bar openings, Golf tournaments, City "days", and numerous parades.

This is my fine driving horse Sam showing off his harness for Smuckers Harness Shop and in the back yard. I can't find photos of Seamus, Ben, Bonnie, Rocky, Hilda or Sailor right now.

Smuckers Harness Shop: Leather Draft Horse Show Harness


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## Centaurheart

GreySorrel I was frankly floored and shocked to read what you wrote about Taffy without knowing her. And while she can defend herself quite nicely and has, I have to add I've seen her posts all over this forum. I have universally respected what she has written and at times have learned a great deal from what she's posted. 

We posted here because we are excited for the OP who has picked himself up a nice Belgian Mare whom looks to be top notch. He's investing time and effort to ask really smart questions both in this thread and elsewhere. Those of us Draft folks wandering around are doing our best to help him out. That is what is important. Its not a my advice verses your advice or Taffy's advice contest. The OP can read what everyone's thoughts are and decide for himself. It's all about helping the OP out with his new mare. 

You aren't the only one with Drafts. Those of us that love horses almost universally love Drafts as well and even own a few. I am always universally suspicious of folks that have to go measure things too. Horse people are like factoid geeks. We simply know what our horses wear whether its collar size, bit length, saddle tree size, girth size, haines and tugs, or singletree length, etc. 

Anyhow, I agree with Taffy. 36+ for that wide girl, but measure to be sure. And Taffy? Sam's a total hunk! I think I'm in love.


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## GreySorrel

Centaurheart said:


> GreySorrel I was frankly floored and shocked to read what you wrote about Taffy without knowing her. And while she can defend herself quite nicely and has, I have to add I've seen her posts all over this forum. I have universally respected what she has written and at times have learned a great deal from what she's posted.
> 
> We posted here because we are excited for the OP who has picked himself up a nice Belgian Mare whom looks to be top notch. He's investing time and effort to ask really smart questions both in this thread and elsewhere. Those of us Draft folks wandering around are doing our best to help him out. That is what is important. Its not a my advice verses your advice or Taffy's advice contest. The OP can read what everyone's thoughts are and decide for himself. It's all about helping the OP out with his new mare.
> 
> You aren't the only one with Drafts. Those of us that love horses almost universally love Drafts as well and even own a few. I am always universally suspicious of folks that have to go measure things too. Horse people are like factoid geeks. We simply know what our horses wear whether its collar size, bit length, saddle tree size, girth size, haines and tugs, or singletree length, etc.
> 
> Anyhow, I agree with Taffy. 36+ for that wide girl, but measure to be sure. And Taffy? Sam's a total hunk! I think I'm in love.


I had wanted to show that the ADS rules for single tree's is a lot different than what we use for a working draft. It is also different disciplines and two different ways of using your animal. Just because I measured my single tree has NO bearing on my expertise or knowledge, I simply wanted to give the OP correct information. I really personally feel he does not needs such a long single tree for his Belgian. 

It is getting rather tiring to have someone you hold in such high regard throw her "expertise" around at a drop of a hat, rest assured she is certainly not the only one who has been there done that nor are her horses. :?


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## Clayton Taffy

GreySorrel said:


> It is getting rather tiring to have someone you hold in such high regard throw her "expertise" around at a drop of a hat, rest assured she is certainly not the only one who has been there done that nor are her horses. :?


Taffy, while your intentions were good, you do fine driving, we do work with our draft horses and I mean that as no disrespect but you honestly don't have a clue as to what size we need because of your fine driving experience. And it is an honest mistake that many who are more involved with fine driving and light horses make. 


Grey Sorrel The only reason I "threw My Expertice" around was after your comment above. And it was only to rebuff your "you don't have a clue" comment.
I try to answer any OP's question to the best of my abilities. 

I have never said I was an expert or a professional, but I do have a clue.


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## Clayton Taffy

Centaurheart said:


> We posted here because we are excited for the OP who has picked himself up a nice Belgian Mare whom looks to be top notch. He's investing time and effort to ask really smart questions both in this thread and elsewhere. Those of us Draft folks wandering around are doing our best to help him out. That is what is important. Its not a my advice verses your advice or Taffy's advice contest. The OP can read what everyone's thoughts are and decide for himself. It's all about helping the OP out with his new mare.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Amen, Centaurheart! I wanted to like this more than once, but I can't.


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