# Horse collapsed.



## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Rex collapsed today.

I have no idea what brought it on, I had no warning that it was coming. I was standing with him in the paddock, he was chilled out, we were snuggling. Without warning, he stumbled a bit to the right and fell. He hit the ground hard enough that it flipped him over. When he got up his hindquarters and back legs were visibly shaking. The shaking stopped after a few seconds and he walked off like nothing had happened.

It was literally about 30 seconds from the stumble, to him being back on his feet and fine again.

I was in shock, so didn't think to take his vitals straight away. Rang my vet and he prompted me to check his heart rate, etc. Heart rate was 36ish, capillary refill was normal, gums normal healthy pink. Ran him through basic at home neuro tests (tight circles, crossing legs, flexing) and all seemed normal there too.

Just looking for any thoughts on what may have caused this. I have spoken with my vet and his first thought is a heart condition. His advice at this stage is to observe him, take vital signs, etc, as well as doing lunge work daily to see whether he has any reaction to exercise. He has been off work for a while due to battling greasy heel. Obviously, I can't ride him, at least until we have it figured out, as there is the risk of it happening again.

Please feel free to ask questions, I may have forgotten something as I am quite stressed.


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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

Is Rex a QH with the stallion Impressive in his pedigree? If so it might be HYPP. Are you in a location where there are opposums? Could be EPM. Maybe Lyme Disease or any sort of neurological disorder. Probably the next step is a total blood lab work-up. Good Luck and Best Wishes. It wouldn't be safe to ride Rex until what is going on with him is diagnosed.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Sorry, I should have said, he is a 15 year old thoroughbred gelding. So no HYPP. Pretty sure we don't have EPM over this way either. 

Next step if he acts anything but 100% normal will be blood tests and an ECG.


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

You can tell alot from blood tests... get a CBC (complete blood count) and maybe a CMP (complete metabloic panel).


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks, Citrus. I will discuss getting bloodwork done with my vet.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Wow, that had to be the longest 30 seconds of your life. I'm glad he's OK.
My mare (RIP) did something like that once. She was trotting through a level paddock & suddenly did a summersault, for no reason I could see. She only did that once.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

My vet did say that occasionally a horse may collapse once and never do it again, but obviously I have to wait and see whether he is likely to do it again before I can rest easier.

It was one of the most terrifying moments of my life.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I wonder why a horse would do that. Sorry HC that you have to wait. Try not to think about it. Try is a big word.
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

A post on another site reminded me, When he was in the process of getting up after he fell he did seem to briefly get stuck on his knees. It was only fleeting, but long enough for me to notice it before he actually got up. Not sure whether it is relevant, but trying to provide all the information I can


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Stuck on his knees? Like hesitating before he got up. Maybe trying to get his head together. Dizzy?
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Possibly, yes. He was basically stuck in this position for a brief moment.










(Not him in the photo, that is Phoenix going down for a roll)

Rex is the grey.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Aw poor guy. He's so pretty
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks MB. He's my baby.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Which one is clever?
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

How Clever? That is Rex's registered name.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

That had to have been scary....hope you get everything figured out.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh ok. Got ya.
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## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

You said he was relaxed when it happened.. maybe look into the possibility of narcolepsy?
Understanding narcolepsy - Horses for sale, Equestrian news - Horse & Hound


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## sullylvr (Aug 13, 2009)

Just posted a whole thing about that but for some reason it didn't go through -_-... but mabye if he's never done it before he could have just been relaxed from snuggling and his knees were shaking because he surprised himself from the fall?
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks Skip, something else to discuss with my vet.

Sully, I really hope it is something as simple as that. 

Thanks for helping me out guys. I really appreciate it.


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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

I am sorry you have to go through this. I hope you get this figured out soon.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I really don't have any suggestions past what has already been said, but I just wanted to pop in and offer my support and maybe a :hug: or two. I hope it's nothing and was a one time deal.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

A gelding at the barn did that once, and he also started stumbling and losing his balance. The vet first thought it was EPM, but testing ruled it out. The vet then said to put him on senior feed and extra hay, to see if he was deficient and lacking energy. I don't know why or how, but this made him better.

Good luck with your beautiful boy.
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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Any chance he just dozed off? My horse used to not sleep when he didn't feel safe. Several times he would doze off in the cross ties and that was all that kept him upright. Had he not been tied, he would have fallen completely. Once I got him to a barn where he would sleep, no more problems since.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Sunny said:


> A gelding at the barn did that once, and he also started stumbling and losing his balance. The vet first thought it was EPM, but testing ruled it out. The vet then said to put him on senior feed and extra hay, to see if he was deficient and lacking energy. I don't know why or how, but this made him better.
> 
> Good luck with your beautiful boy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He is fed senior feed, rice bran, beet pulp, lupins as well as free choice hay and pasture. And a mineral supplement.



MyBoyPuck said:


> Any chance he just dozed off? My horse used to not sleep when he didn't feel safe. Several times he would doze off in the cross ties and that was all that kept him upright. Had he not been tied, he would have fallen completely. Once I got him to a barn where he would sleep, no more problems since.


This has been suggested to me. That perhaps he has not been getting his REM sleep and is sleep deprived.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I'd get that blood work done, fast. 

You say he is on a complete veteran mix but you are also giving him a mineral suppliment is there any reason for this? have you concidered that you may be ODing him on vitamins and minerals.

Also sometimes horses just have moments, just like humans, where they get dizzy or just stumble for no reason.

ETA - anouther thought, how hot was it? I've seen a horse go weak and fall over because he got too hot, he was in a horse lorry and very sweaty but the other horses around him were not hot. He litteraly seemed to collapse at the knees and had to use the partitions to support himself.
We had to stop in a field, unload and cool him off using cold water and then reload him. It took all of 10 mins for him to cool down sufficiently and be back to his normal self. He won all his classes that day at the show. he was what I call a "hot" horse, he always got very very hot, he was normaly fully clipped during a british summer (not that warm) because he would overheat standing in the field, you couldnt rug him much in winter because he overheated very easily.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I use feedxl to make up balanced diets for each of my horses. With just the senior feed there were a few vitamins and minerals that were insufficient, the mineral mix brings everything up where it should be. All the mineral levels were within acceptable ranges when I did the diet up.

Not very hot here as we are heading for winter. 

I have done some more reading about heart conditions and gone and concerned myself even more as the reading I have done indicates that horses with a heart condition can be quite lazy under saddle, Rex is. Obviously I have always just assumed he's lazy as he is such a placid natured horse.

The reading I have done also mentioned that sometimes they will develop edema along the midline of the abdomen. Rex does get quite noticeable amounts of swelling along his belly off and on.

I am waiting for my vet to get back to me regarding blood work. If I don't hear from him soon I will check out another vet.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh HC. I feel for you. To worry over the unknown is so hard on you. Try your best to think positive as best as you can. I will, and will pray it is just a dozing off symptom. I'm so sorry you are going through this. Try not to read any more because I did the same thing and got myself worked up over nothing. More hugs sent to you. I can only hope your vet calls you or you or you find another vet to give you an answer.
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Have just spoken with him. At this stage he will be out Wednesday morning to give him an exam and pull some blood.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

In the meantime hun, stay calm. Ok? You have so much support here and prayers from all over the world. Now what you need to focus on is Rex. Give him as much love and attention as you can, and you probably already are. Give him a kiss from me.
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks MB, am doing my best to stay calm, but not succeeding for the most part. We start moving house tomorrow too, so stress levels are insanely high.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh!! That does make a difference. I'm sorry. Are you packed and organized? What do you mean, moving house? You poor girl. Where are your horses at?
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Semi packed, but completely unorganised. Horses are on a paddock that we lease at the moment. They are coming with us to our new place, finally get to have them at home.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh no kidding!! Exciting and nerve racking at the same time. This could be a way for God to test your strength hun. I'm not really all that religious but I have some beliefs. I hope the move goes well without a hitch and that the vet will have answers (positive) so you can finally be at peace. Cheers baby.
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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Glad the vet is going to come out and do an exam.



Skipsfirstspike said:


> You said he was relaxed when it happened.. maybe look into the possibility of narcolepsy?
> Understanding narcolepsy - Horses for sale, Equestrian news - Horse & Hound


This was my first guess too.

Hope he is doing better quickly.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks AB.

This photo serves no purpose other than cuteness. This is my goober enjoying some noms this morning.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Aw, what a cool picture HC. Isn't it going on night time for you now?
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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm very sorry about what happened! Very scary experience!

I know you are in Aus, so what about the temperature? Could it be he over-heated may be?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

kitten_Val said:


> I know you are in Aus, so what about the temperature? Could it be he over-heated may be?





HowClever said:


> Not very hot here as we are heading for winter.


That has been covered already.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I wonder if he suffers from tying up syndrome?


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

wow I hope he is OK. Try not to worry too much until the vet has checked him out. I know easier said than done. Keep us posted as to what the vet says!


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have been referred to a specialist for an ECG of Rex's heart. My vet is very suspicious of his heart. He said it doesn't sound normal to him at all. He also drew blood and I should get those results tomorrow sometime. Feeling pretty devastated at the moment.
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## beauforever23 (May 6, 2010)

Oh HC i'm sorry  
Prayers for you and Rex. Just hope for the best and prepare for the worst. I hope all comes back good.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

I'm sending my prayers and good vibes to you and your horse. Hope it all turns out okay.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Jingles for Rex. Hang in there girl.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

:hug: for both you and Rex. Heart issues are always scary.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Hugs to you both, I'm so sorry it wasn't better news. Still hoping for the best scenario, I've been keeping you in my thoughts.


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## horsesroqke (Nov 5, 2009)

I really hope he is going to be okay. Positive thoughts. Hugs to you and Rex, he is a stunner. 
x


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Oh HC, my heart goes out to you. I hope "if" anything, that it will all be ok.
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## candandy49 (Jan 16, 2011)

I am so sorry to see your Vet thinks Rex may have a heart problem. Keep us updated! More :hug::hug::hug:for you and jingles for Rex!!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Healthy heart vibes for Rex.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

So sorry you are going through this HC! Rex is in my thoughts and well wishes!


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

awe good vibes out to you both. Hope you get some better news


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## DarkHorseDream (Apr 17, 2011)

are you the type who rarely lets your horse outside and gets him up the second he lies down? a horse requires 1-2 hours of REM sleep every few days, which can ONLY be obtained while laying down. if they do not, they become sleep deprived, and it's not uncommon for a horse to collapse due to this sleep deprivation. most people overlook this, and think since horses take naps standing up they don't need to lay down and sleep. this stems off from a thread i started recently on how long horses can safely lay down so i thought i'd throw in my 2 cents. also think of reasons a human might collapse like that with normal vitals afterwards, maybe a seizure? THAT's a wild guess but like i said.. it's probably something much more simple and benign than you think!


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

DarkHorseDream said:


> are you the type who rarely lets your horse outside and gets him up the second he lies down? a horse requires 1-2 hours of REM sleep every few days, which can ONLY be obtained while laying down. if they do not, they become sleep deprived, and it's not uncommon for a horse to collapse due to this sleep deprivation. most people overlook this, and think since horses take naps standing up they don't need to lay down and sleep. this stems off from a thread i started recently on how long horses can safely lay down so i thought i'd throw in my 2 cents. also think of reasons a human might collapse like that with normal vitals afterwards, maybe a seizure? THAT's a wild guess but like i said.. it's probably something much more simple and benign than you think!


Have you read the whole thread?
You might want to before you jump to harsh conclusions.


And No, HC's horses actually live outside 24/7.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

How exactly does one prevent a horse from laying down other than monitoring them literally every minute of every day? I've never heard of anyone freaking out over a horse lying down - ever. I've never heard of anyone being opposed to a horse lying down - why would they? A horse lying down means it's comfortable in it's environment - I can't think of a reason a person wouldn't let their horses lie down.
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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

DarkHorseDream said:


> are you the type who rarely lets your horse outside and gets him up the second he lies down? a horse requires 1-2 hours of REM sleep every few days, which can ONLY be obtained while laying down. if they do not, *they become sleep deprived, and it's not uncommon for a horse to collapse due to this sleep deprivation*. most people overlook this, and think since horses take naps standing up they don't need to lay down and sleep. this stems off from a thread i started recently on how long horses can safely lay down so i thought i'd throw in my 2 cents. also think of reasons a human might collapse like that with normal vitals afterwards, maybe a seizure? THAT's a wild guess but like i said.. it's probably something much more simple and benign than you think!


Cripes. As if the poor gal isn't upset enough!

I would be VERY interested in seeing the research on sleep deprived horses. 

Horses can have narcolepsy - but it's rare.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/3095/equine-narcolepsy


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Many horse have heart murmurs that can be heard at rest but are not there when the horse is put to work-those are considered a non-issue. Has your vet listened to his heart after working, even longing for a bit?


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I am on my phone so can't quote. Thank you for fielding that one guys. Yes, all my horses are out 24/7 and I am well aware of their need for REM sleep. Natisha, that is very interesting! My vet did say that after I had lunged him and trotted him up his heart seemed stronger and clearer. Although he said his pulse was still quite weak. Sorry for the wall of text! Hopefully I will have a computer with internet in a few days.
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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

There is/was a top 4* eventer who had a resting heart murmer. Cant remember who it was but there deffinatly was one and I'm fairly sure that the won either badminton or burghley.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> Have you read the whole thread?
> You might want to before you jump to harsh conclusions.
> 
> 
> And No, HC's horses actually live outside 24/7.


Exactly! Can't stand it when someone jumps in without reading first.
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## BJJ (Jun 18, 2010)

Hope everything is going well. I agree, we don't need mean, judgemental posts. We may do things differently, but we all love our horses--and if we can't give assistance/opinions in a positive manner, ouch!


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

How is he HC?
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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

natisha said:


> Many horse have heart murmurs that can be heard at rest but are not there when the horse is put to work-those are considered a non-issue.


Very interesting (although weird I should say)! Is there any research WHY is it this way? Would be interesting to read how they explain the phenomenon.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Vet spoke with the specialist and we have decided to hold off on the ECG for now. Specialist confirmed that some horses do have resting heart murmurs and the fact that his heart seemed stronger and clearer after lunging and trotting him up indicated that is what he was hearing. Blood work came back completely normal too. I have been told to do a lot of lunge work over the next few months but hold off on riding for now. So semi good news, but I am still uneasy without a concrete answer.
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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Well good HC. I understand your uneasiness. But hopefully this was a fluke thing and you can rest easier knowing he will be ok. Take a big breath and go give him a hug for me! Hugz for you too!
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks MB. A girl on a local forum I am on was saying that she has a horse with a resting heart murmur who collapsed twice as a 5 year old. He is now 18 and competed quite well in dressage, so that gives me some hope.
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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Good news HC! Am pleased!


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## Katze (Feb 21, 2011)

Good new's =)


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Is he still doing well?


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

He is happy as a pig in mud, AB. He has himself a new girlfriend and is feeling quite frisky. He will be starting lunge work next week and continuing that for the next few months and then hopefully we will be back in the saddle!
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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Good News HC. I'm glad all is calm.
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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I have just been to an internet cafe to pay some bills and had an opportunity to have a look at my copy of Rex's blood results. In the comments for white blood cells it mentions 'leucopenia' which some googling indicates is often the result of shock or exhaustion. That seems to point me in the direction that it may have simply been a lack of REM sleep that caused the collapse. Still going to play it safe and give him some time off, but that is a step in a positive direction.
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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

That's great news HC! 

I don't know anything about leucopenia, but did this happen after you moved your horses? Could that have been a shock?


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

The collapse was a little over a week before we moved. However we had put 2 different horses in the paddock with him about a week before he collapsed which may have been enough to disturb his sleep patterns.
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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I so hope it's that. Have you had chance to discuss this with your vet yet?


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

Not yet. I am a bit concerned that he didn't mention it in the first place when he told me all his blood work was 'normal'. Not too concerning doesn't equal normal to me. When I get a chance to print the report off I might discuss it with the vet that is down the end of the road at our new place.
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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Good news, fresh eyes never do any harm.


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

How is your gelding? My mare has just been unofficially diagnosed with a pretty extreme case of sleep deprivation. She was collapsing every other night. Just found out yesterday. They checked her heart too. Except, in heart conditions, horses usually pass out when they get excited or startled. Ill bet your gelding has or had the samething. Let me know and i can tell you all ive learned about it.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

This occurred over 12 months ago now. After seeing the bloodwork and discussing it with another vet we came to the conclusion that his collapse was due to sleep deprivation. He no longer gets turned out with more than 1-2 other horses as that is when he starts not sleeping. 

He does have a resting heart murmur which causes him no obvious issues. He is, however, now completely retired due to arthritis causing joint fusion in his nearside knee and fetlock. He's happily acting as an "uncle" to my almost 2 year old gelding now.


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