# Why are you pro-horse slaugher?



## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

I'm 'pro slaughter' because it moves unwanted horses. They're not typically bred for slaughter, they're made up of the 1,000,000 or so horses that are unwanted. The meat man usually picks horses up at auction who don't have anywhere else to go except to be put down. (People can go up and ask to buy a horse afterward from them, from what I understand some are willing to let the horses have a good home if they can) And if the horse is going to be put down anyway for whatever reason you may as well eat the meat and use the bones for something.

A lot of ranchers (from what I understand) used the slaughterhouses to sell off their old horses who they couldn't take care of anymore, because they need room for the ones who can do heavy-duty work. They do try to sell what they can, but if there are no takers whatcha gunna do? There's not enough money to go around. Now they have to let the horses become feral and fend for themselves. They used to get some income to use for what they needed, but now they have less coming in and more going out. 

Personally, I will be putting my horses down when they can't work for me anymore. And I mean can't as in they're on their deathbeds, there's no point in trying to keep them alive. I'm not 'pro-life' in that sense 'cause I just think it makes things worse. I am planning on keeping the meat, selling some maybe, and using everything from the horses to use - their hides for leather, skulls for painting on and selling... etc so that I can have more money to go around.

I love my horses, and it's out of respect that I wanna do this as well. It's weird, yeah, but it's spiritual thing that I want to do to bring me - in a way - closer to them. Kinda like 'eating the heart of your enemies to gain their strength'.

I think it's stupid to close slaughterhouses only because then the horses have no where else to go and people with already strained resources have to dig deeper to take care of them. I mean, yes... regulations to protect horses, cattle, dogs.... etc are needed. They shouldn't be treated like things, but given the respect they deserve. If they live a good life they're not going to mind dying to fill people's bellies.

But for me it's mostly a spiritual and self-reliant issue, considering what I wanna do with my life is very expensive.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

That makes sense. I'm not sure what I'd do with Gracie when she passes, but I'm also not sure I'll even have her that long. I would like to keep her as long as possible, but will sell if I have to. Ricci is my heart horse, and I will keep her if I have to live out of my truck. I plan on cremating her and mixing her ashes with concrete to make a garden stone of sorts. Maybe it's because I want to be cremated, so I want my horse to be too.

Everyone is always so afraid of meat buyers at auctions, but they always do buy scrawny old horses for maybe $50. We do not have the resources to have that many horse rescues, I realize that.

As I said, my main concern is quality of life. If the horse has a good life and is put to rest humanely, I'm not sure I see the problem. Horses are beautiful, noble creatures, and deserve respect. And to take it a little further, cattle have also been used for ages to feed us, as well as pigs and chickens. Do they not deserve our respect too?

Any other input from the rest of you? I know there are quite a few pro-slaughter on the forum. =]


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about the issue. I vaguely remember reading some arguments made on this forum as to why horse slaughter is a good thing.
> 
> Horse slaughter plants were all shut down in the US, right? Or most of them? And now this is creating problems elsewhere, as well as the US, yes? What are the problems it's causing?
> 
> ...


I will try not to dissapoint! First, cattle are treated quite well and although the way they are housed does not appeal to our senses cattle find them quite comfortable. They get fed regularly and as much as they'll eat and get to lounge around with thier buddies. it's kind of like a college frat house. I can also say with certainy that they have no idea what's coming until just before it hits them between the eyes.

Horses are much the same way. The majority of horses that go to slaughter are not ridable any longer. For many reasons somebody decided that the horse wasn't useful any more and everybody that watched it sell through the auction agreed. Some horses get crippled or develop problems that are too difficult to deal with. Some can't be trusted to not injure people and some were dealt the shot genetic straw and are just plain ugly conformationally. Rarely do horses with potential make it all the way to the slaughter house. I have bought many horses out of the meat auction and I know many people that prowl the meat buyers pens looking for good horses. horse slaughter is just getting the culls and therefore improving the overall horse herd.

The biggest problem people have with horse slaughter is that they think that horses are being abused in transit and at the slaughter house. I don't believe this. First, there is the financial losses that come from stressed animals. The owners of these plants want all the money they can get from each animal and that means keeping them comfortable as possible. 

If the plants within a thousand miles of me had not been shut down I would have no problem sending a horse to slaughter. The horses may have a moment of discomfort but then they have a quick death and most importantly thier bodies are used for feeding people as opposed to filling a hole in the ground. There are too many hungry people in the world to be throwing hundreds of pounds of meat into a hole in the ground.


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> They get fed regularly and as much as they'll eat and get to lounge around with thier buddies. it's kind of like a college frat house.


 
:clap::rofl: As usual, well said!


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> Ricci is my heart horse, and I will keep her if I have to live out of my truck. I plan on cremating her and mixing her ashes with concrete to make a garden stone of sorts. Maybe it's because I want to be cremated, so I want my horse to be too.


That's exactly the same way I feel about my guy Red. In fact, when I raise enough money I plan on getting a huge piece of empty land and living out of a truck and horse trailer until I can afford to build. lol. And when he dies he gets to be useful again as a burger or steak, and I'm going to paint his bones and decorate my house with them. Use his hide to make a blanket or something. He's my special guy. <3 (This sounds so much more morbid than I realized. XD)

My mare, I dunno if I'm going to keep her or eventually sell her. I just know I have something to prove to myself with her, and that I want at least one baby outta her from a Curly Horse or a QH from the Peppy San line.

The only difference is I don't wanna be eaten. I dunno how I wanna be buried. Preferably on my own turf, but you're not allowed to have family plots on your own land anymore. u.u



kevinshorses said:


> I will try not to dissapoint!


I don't think ya did!

Also... I think people definitely are under the wrong impressions about how animals are kept before being slaughtered. Sure there are places that DO abuse the animals, but they don't make as much profit as you said... and if the government officials DO file a report on it, they lose money from fines.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

No, you didn't disappoint at all, Kevin. =D Now that I've got things to mull over, I feel better. I do see the necessity of it all, to be honest. I still don't think I could send a horse to slaughter. When a friend's horse was euthanized, it was picked up by a proctor to turn it into dog food and the whole thing just seemed so cold to me, and I knew then for a fact that I could never do that to Ricci. I can certainly respect those that are able to do it though. Dogs have to eat too, right?

So with at least most of the plants closed in the US [isn't there only one?] what is happening with these un-usable horses? Does anyone have any ideas or know of anything?

EDIT to respond to Jhinnua.

I don't doubt your love for your horse at all, and I hope I didn't imply that. I have a silly notion in my head that my horse should be treated equal to or better than myself. I want to be cremated. For some reason, I think burning is better than being cut up, lol. =P That being said, I will never bury a horse. EVER. I'd rather send it for meat. I hate bugs, I can't imagine any horse of mine being consumed by bugs. O_O


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> There are too many hungry people in the world to be throwing hundreds of pounds of meat into a hole in the ground.


 
Kevin, while I have always been pro-slaughter, I never thought of it from this angle. Thanks for that!

I think all animals, big and small, sweet and nasty deserve a quick respectful (as death gets) death. I work for a small rescue in my area and let me tell you, the horses that we get in weren't headed for that kind of death. Most are starved beyond recognition. Some are injured beyond repair. Some have behavioral issues that makes the unsavory to be around. Our numbers have tripled since slaughter went out. People have no options now. 

Example: Old Bessie has been your best horse. Always a treat to be around...hell she taught your kids to ride. Bessie is now 25, half blind and struck with the arthitis in her knees. You could have the vet put her down..that'll cost you 200 bucks. You could shoot her...but you think that would be terrible...you could turn her over to a horse rescue/sanctuary/humane society, but they are all full with a thousand just like her. So what most people do is either let Poor Ol' Bessie live out her days in a hot pasture with limited resources, no vet care (Gosh what would the vet think if she saw Bessie!) no farrier (shes not being ridden...why would she need her feet done?!) and no human companionship (I just cant stand to look at her anymore...shes so sad!) Until either Bessie drops dead or a neighbor calls it in and the police have to come remove your animal. You used to have slaughter...believe me it is nicer than starving to death. Our last rescue was eating barnwood when we found him. 

(ps sorry for the rant...)


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

I read a few years ago that a lot of them were just being turned loose in the middle of the deserts or the meat buyers who actually went around to buy them were sending them to Mexico for slaughter. Some horses make it to new homes through rescue and adoption, others die from lack of care.

And yes, many more starve in the pasture, as Corino just pointed out.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> Kevin, while I have always been pro-slaughter, I never thought of it from this angle. Thanks for that!
> 
> I think all animals, big and small, sweet and nasty deserve a quick respectful (as death gets) death. I work for a small rescue in my area and let me tell you, the horses that we get in weren't headed for that kind of death. Most are starved beyond recognition. Some are injured beyond repair. Some have behavioral issues that makes the unsavory to be around. Our numbers have tripled since slaughter went out. People have no options now.
> 
> ...


That is very sad. =| I don't think anyone really thinks about it that way. Just because I will continue to provide Ricci with the best care long after she is retired, most people can't, or won't, because as you said, they aren't being used anymore. It is very sad indeed. I wish I knew more about this before the plants got shut down. I knew a girl who really pushed to get them closed.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

It is sad Ricci...really sad. From what I understand, the problem alot of people had with slaughter was the way they were transported. Horses were getting crushed (i dont know this to be fact, just anti-slaughter material I had). I think they were probably getting hurt in trailers because most of them didn't have any proper training in anything, let alone loading on an 18 wheeler. Also, the conditions of most of these horses is so poor, they couldnt stand in a stall...let alone a moving one. Life for *our* horses is great...they have free choice of food, lots of water, companionship and love. Most of the horses that end up at slaughter never had that. That is the saddest fact of all. People keep breeding but theres no where for those foals.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

... Which is something most anti-slaughter advocates don't realize when they advocate for things like this, is just how much it helps everything in the end. It gets rid of the unsellable, unusable, broken horses. They get the best care possible while they're alive and in the hands of the buyer. It stimulates the economy.

There are a few other things too, but I can't recall them atm.

It's like pro-life people who want to force women to give birth to unwanted babies. I don't agree with the women who are all "Crap, I got myself pregnant again" who get abortions, but if the woman's been raped, or is underage and can't take care of herself, or just... whatever... why should they have to go through with childbirth? It can be really scarring. Also there are enough orphans and lost children in the world, why are we adding more... y'know?

Not that, that's on topic, but it's similar. <_<;;


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Yes, there are lots of PETA videos floating around of horses and cows and pigs falling out of trailers because they were injured beyond belief and/or so weak they couldn't hold themselves up anymore. As mentioned, I'm sure some are like that, but if all it typically takes is a write up and a bunch of fines for people to change their ways? It's amazing. I'm sure there are also some very abusive plant workers, but is that any different from the average abusive pet owner?

EDIT: Everyone keeps replying before me!

I feel the same way about abortion. In some cases, it really is better. Another example is Downe Syndrome. They can test for that really early now, so the parent(s) have the option to abort. Why knowingly bring a sick baby into the world? I am pro-life in a way, if a 15 year old girl wants to keep her baby, than more power to her, but I am also pro-choice. You should have the right to choose.

Anywho, a lot of people hate it when we relate horses to babies and whatnot, but it really is very similar. Now let's hope we don't get bashed, haha.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Hahaha. XD Sorry!

But yeah... people do get offended with that, which I think is dumb. If they bash us so be it. It IS the same analogy.

I mean, for godsakes, I train my horses the same way I train my dogs, which'll be the same way I teach my kids. They are all very, very similar. My dog got a heck of a lot better listening to me and stuff when I finally understood how to train my horse. I even used some horsemanship on him and he improved even more. lol. Dogmanship anyone?

I'm pro-choice all the way, definitely.

For instance: If my future son ends up getting a girl pregnant and she was keeping the baby, I would tell him that it's his choice what he does. If he wants to walk away and not deal with it, fine (I'd rather him take responsibility though... I'd still probably start making him pay rent and stuff. "You got a girl pregnant... welcome to adulthood.").

If he wants to support it, then he has to get a paying job. I'm not going to spend my money except as a grandparent would, lol. It's not my kid, it's my grandkid (even if my son will be a foster child. >[ ) I'm not going to raise it for him... and I would prefer him try to get custody if the girls parents are going to let her be lazy in her duties as a mother. No grandkid of mine is going to be a spoiled brat!


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## aforred (May 12, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> Anywho, a lot of people hate it when we relate horses to babies and whatnot, but it really is very similar.


Neither horses nor babies can speak up for themselves, so, yeah, it is very similar. 

I know a guy who goes to a lot of horse sales, and there are people who will buy a load to take to Mexico. These people (at least the ones my friend told me about) will sell any of these horses for whatever he paid for them.

I really wish that slaughter wasn't necessary, but the fact is, slaughter is a much better option that what we currently have.


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

Jhinnua said:


> Hahaha. XD Sorry!
> 
> But yeah... people do get offended with that, which I think is dumb. If they bash us so be it. It IS the same analogy.
> 
> ...


This post will be mildly off topic, but being a young pregnant soon to be mother dumped by my boyfriend of two years because he "just can't deal with things" I can sure tell you if any son of mine decided to do that he would not have my support. If you're man enough to get a woman pregnant you are man enough to deal with the consequence of your actions. Be you 14 or 40. We all are aware of what happens when you have sex. As safe as you can be there is still that 0.0000001 chance and me being the (un)lucky one I got pregnant. He has every right to walk away but I wouldn't support any man doing so, even if he was my own child.

As for the comment on downs syndrome it's actually not that accurate yet. Which kind of sucks. I am very pro choice and would never frown upon a woman for getting an abortion, regardless of why she is doing it because that is her right but I know of two women who's babies tested positive for it but are clearly do not have it. 

As for horse slaughter I am all for it. I've seen way too many neglected animals for my liking. Had they just sold them at the auction earlier they would have had a lot less suffering.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Considering I hope to raise a son who's responsible for his actions, I do hope that option 1 isn't an _actual_ option for him... but if it is, and that's what he feels he _needs_ to do... it's his life. I may not agree with the decision, but I will still support him. 'Cause he's my son.

But as I said, I'd also treat him like an adult. He would have to get a job, start paying his own way, pay child support... continue going to school... etc. After a long speech about how there are consequences to his actions and all that. I just wouldn't straight-up disown him.

But uh, yeah... Go slaughter! Take them poor unwanted ponies away!


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## Rylie22 (May 25, 2010)

well I know it's a little late in the game but i feel the need to say something,I'm new to this forum and haven't been around to see the other horse slaughter posts but i do know that it's a touchy subject on both sides. I used to be one of those were so against horse slaughter and blah blah blah but I've opened my eyes to reality and know it's really the best method.

The place where I got my mare from is "the" horse dealer in my state and has it's sales barn and the back barn. The back barn is where they keep the horses that are off to Canada. I've known people that have sold their horse to this dealer and said "make sure this one gets on the truck" yeah I thought it was horrid when I first heard about it but this horse was sick but this was the best way. Here in Maine we can't buried a horse on our own property, it's against the law. So instead of just paying for the euthanasia we have to pay for the horse to be hauled off and disposed off. It costs about $1000-$2000. So anyway this horse was sick, and his medical bills had already cost more then he was worth. Times are tough and this wasn't an easy decision(she DOESN'T do this to every horse, but some are beyond help). This barn owner has seen first hand the starvation in other countries(people) and is a strong believer that these unwanted horses were put on earth for a purpose and feeding those starving countries just may very well be their purpose. I don't want anyone to attack me for stating this because there was nothing else to be done for this horse, rescues have reached their maximum and no one wants to take on a horse that has such costly medical bills, what was she supposed to do? It happens all the time so this doesn't make her a bad person!

Why deny these people in other countries a food source just because some animal welfare groups threw a temper-tantrum and congress shut down the plants. These horses are going through a lot more then they would have if they had been sent to a U.S. slaughter house, but nope those are closed so now a majority of them get packed onto a truck and sent to good ol' humane Mexico. My applause goes out to those groups, you guys really solved that problem. 

So I guess I am now pro-slaughter(even though I hate that word), I think the plants need to be reopened/rebuilt. I think the government should have a more strict rule about the humane killing of ALL animals in the slaughter houses. We have no control on what goes on in slaughter houses in other countries but we can at least do our horses some good and make a humane way of slaughter in the U.S. to make sure these horses get the best treatment right up until their last breath.


sorry I needed to rant


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

I am also por-slaughter. Take deer for example. When they get overpopulated the goverment expands the limit and gets them back under control. Yet, horses can starve and die? Over population is really the problem. There are to many horses. Now the market has gone to hell, you can't get rid of a horse. Slaughter is just a way of keeping things balanced. It's a fact of life, not a pretty one, but it's something that needs to be done. Why would someone who loves horses prefer to see one starve to death because no one can afford to feed it? I would much rather have my horse put down and put to use than waste away painfully.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> The owners of these plants want all the money they can get from each animal and that means keeping them comfortable as possible.


Can you explain that?? If I'm the owner of a slaughter plant thinking about profit, I'm going to give each horse less space and comfort so I can fit more in at a time. I'm also going to rush them a long as fast as possible so I can do more each day. That's basic economics. Being nice to the animals always costs more money, not less. Just like in any other equine business.




kevinshorses said:


> There are too many hungry people in the world to be throwing hundreds of pounds of meat into a hole in the ground.


Horsemeat doesn't feed anyone who's really hungry. It goes to gourmet markets in Europe and Japan. Just sayin'.


I'm not against killing horses for meat but I think there's definite room for improvement in the slaughter industry.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

So I've been wanting to reply to this thread for a few days, but I only had access to a crappy keyboard, and it was frustrating to try and type. But here it is.

I think specifically for the US, slaughter can only be a good thing. Think about it....rescue organizations are FULL of horses who are or were on the brink of death, and will probably have a myriad of health problems, if they don't already. Or, on the flip side, these are the horses that nobody wants. While I am against the slaughter of a perfectly good animal, at the same time, if it gets the rest of the horse market moving, then its just a sacrifice that has to be made. Supply and demand....when there's more supply, demand goes down; when there's less supply, demand goes up. If we re-open slaughter houses in the US, these things can be regulated. Its been said before, but horses will spend maybe 1 or 2 days on a trailer, rather than a week. The way that they're slaughtered will be regulated (no ice picks in the spine, etc) and even the animals themselves will be regulated (I know there was talk about having horses scanned by a microchip reader, or something of that sort before being killed in case they were stolen horses).

The second thing is jobs. We need jobs in the US, its pretty simple. Opening up slaughterhouses will do that.

Finally, the overall economy will benefit. Where do you think all of that horse meat is going to go? Since we don't eat it, the only logical thing would be to export it....for what? Money! Our government needs money too; when the government has money, businesses and banks have money, roads and bridges aren't crumbling, new schools can be built, etc. Whether it feeds rich people or poor people, someone is paying us to sell it to them.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Cougar said:


> This post will be mildly off topic, but being a young pregnant soon to be mother dumped by my boyfriend of two years because he "just can't deal with things" I can sure tell you if any son of mine decided to do that he would not have my support. If you're man enough to get a woman pregnant you are man enough to deal with the consequence of your actions. Be you 14 or 40. We all are aware of what happens when you have sex. As safe as you can be there is still that 0.0000001 chance and me being the (un)lucky one I got pregnant. He has every right to walk away but I wouldn't support any man doing so, even if he was my own child.


But think about it if the situation were reversed. You wanted to abort but your boyfriend did not. You did not want the responsibility [even though it is just as much your fault as his] and couldn't be bothered by it, but your boyfriend did. Wouldn't you want to have your right to "bail?" You don't have to answer, I'm just saying, it could easily go both ways. I am sorry that you were put in the situation though, I can't imagine how tough it is. But if you're into horses, your probably pretty tough yourself. =]

And back on topic, lol. As to making the animals comfortable VS profit, I think that was already mentioned. There could be/are regulations, and if said regulations are not met, fines will be given. Therefore, loss of profit. It would not be profitable to make things uncomfortable when you are then opening yourself up to thousands of dollars in fines. That's not factual, just what I'm gathering from some things that have been mentioned. If you get paid to drive fast, but rack up a bunch of speeding tickets, what are you really taking away?

This brings me around to Sam's post about money that hadn't been made yet. It makes perfect sense. Horse meat isn't cheap, because it's not all that common. As mentioned, horses aren't bred for slaughter like cattle and swine. There just isn't as much horse meat on the market. I can't imagine how much a horse steak actually costs, much less the whole horse as meat. Then consider the cost to transport horses to Mexico for slaughter. That can't be cheap either, paying for employees, paying for time, paying for gas, paying for driver to eat, etc. We are essentially digging ourselves into a big pit by closing down the slaugherhouses, huh?


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> But think about it if the situation were reversed. You wanted to abort but your boyfriend did not. You did not want the responsibility [even though it is just as much your fault as his] and couldn't be bothered by it, but your boyfriend did. Wouldn't you want to have your right to "bail?" You don't have to answer, I'm just saying, it could easily go both ways. I am sorry that you were put in the situation though, I can't imagine how tough it is. But if you're into horses, your probably pretty tough yourself. =]


You aren't the first to say it and I don't take offense to it in the slightest. If the table was turned I'd want my right to bail and I respect his right to do so. We discussed it in great detail and decided that if he still feels this way we'll leave father unknown on the legal documents and he can put it all behind him. I'm not pushing for child support. I don't want a thing other than him to hopefully find happiness.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I think people tend to let human emotion get too involved. Realistically, from an equine point of view, there is very little difference from the fear and pain they may experience in a slaughter house and the fear and pain they may experience from someone trying to fix a broken leg. And yet we hail those who try to save severely injured animals as heros. It honestly makes me shake my head - animals do not UNDERSTAND a "second chance". A horse will never understand why he's being locked in a dark stall month after month, unable to move and in pain. He doesn't get down to his pony knees at the end and thank the heavens that he's alive. The ONLY difference that I will give any weight to is that a horse may find it less fearful having the human he trusts by his side as opposed to the nothing he finds in a slaughter pen - but quite frankly, 90% of horses that end up in a slaughter pen are NOT someone's "beloved pet" like PETA and YouTube wants to make you believe.

To a horse, there is no difference between being cut out of his herd as a wild animal and "tamed" by a human as there is being in a strange place with a strange smell. Fear is fear to a horse, they don't differentiate - but we somehow justify the fear we put horses through because WE choose to believe we're "doing it out of love". And no doubt the final product is worth it - a cared for animal that is treated well. But watch some videos some times on working wild Mustangs - the fear shakes from every last muscle they have, their eyes are wild with terror and desperation to escape. They tremble, the fight, they try to escape - now please tell me how this is any different then any propaganda we've ever heard from the anti-slaughter section? Heck, the slaughter horses probably have it better! At least they have death waiting for them, not the 50% of lousy worthless families the Mustangs may end up with!

I am against calculated torture of animals, and I DO classify into that section the cruelty seen with downer animals - horses or cattle with broken legs being zapped and kicked over and over when the idiots handling them KNOW they can't get up. I like to think this makes up a smaller portion then we like to believe - most people aren't out to delibrately torture animals, even in the slaughter industry.

It sucks that a percentage of kills don't go 100% according to plan - but in the end, they ARE dead. It always makes me wonder if people wouldn't try to jail lions and wolves for the way they kill their prey - it's as quick as they can make it, but the terror and pain the animal suffers is likely just as long, if not longer, as that of your average slaughter animal. I roll my eyes are the vast majority of anti-slaughter propaganda as they pass off everything from a dying nervous system to a slight breathing as an animal being "fully consious and aware of what is going on." Highly doubtful - even if the kill is not immediate, you can virtually guarantee the degree of brain damage or unconsiousness has rendered the animal past any real state of awareness. I've butchered chickens before - even after severing the spines through the back of the neck, they will flop, gurgle and cluck for a solid 5 minutes after you KNOW they aren't truly feeling anything.

Could changes be made? Definitely. And it's good we have people striving to ensure the treatment doesn't reach a point of unacceptable proportions. But in this day and age, the actions that occur in most backyards around the world are more unfathomably cruel then anything that will ever happen in a slaughter house. :-|


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

You know, that almost makes me want to make a 'pro slaughter' video. <_< Where there are images and video clips from people abusing their animals in their backyard, or unwanted horses in the fields, or wandering around in the wild with nowhere else to go starving to death, vs. a well run slaughter house that's clean and where all the horses have water and food.


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

Jhinnua said:


> You know, that almost makes me want to make a 'pro slaughter' video. <_< Where there are images and video clips from people abusing their animals in their backyard, or unwanted horses in the fields, or wandering around in the wild with nowhere else to go starving to death, vs. a well run slaughter house that's clean and where all the horses have water and food.


Not a bad idea. I'd help with that project any day.


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

Speedy_da_fish, I think it was, posted a video of a British slaughter house which was very good, all the horses were handled calmly, it showed them eating together beforehand. The worst thing they could come up with was a mare that was left for a little bit while they opened the plant before shooting her.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I remember several years ago the government here wanted to take off rent controls. Many people protested because they thought it would cause rental prices to spike. They were right, it did - For a while. But eventually the system balanced itself out.

It is the same here. All those unwanted horses you see starving out in the fields now? They were probably born or bred before the slaughter ban came into effect. Now that over breeding doesn't pay any more, breeders will stop doing it. They will have to, or they will lose money. It just takes some time for the laws of supply and demand to come into effect.

Yes, there will always be genetic loser horses that no one wants, but if those were the only horses we had to slaughter we could afford to do it in a more humane way (like they do in some European countries).


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^

I think that is a pretty naive attitude. Considering you live in Canada, where slaughter IS still legal, it's a pipe dream. Even if by some miracle of god, we managed to ban slaughter here as well - do you think you're going to have much luck convincing Mexico to follow suit? And you're right, we could ban all transport of horses for food to Mexico, but now you're making this an international trade issue as opposed to an animal issue. Do you really think you can just pull up and stop trading with a country without whiplash? This extends FAR beyond the "rights of a horse", which is what people simply don't see. The cow is considered a sacred animal in most of India due to Hindiusm. Perhaps they should cut off all trade with us because we continue to abuse and consume the cow?

People will always have different opinions and you can't just force your beliefs on other countries. Horse slaughter is GOING to happen, regardless of how much we believe we can regulate it, and we are speaking about living ANIMALS here, not regulating rent.

Quite frankly, I find it ridiculous that you would actually advocate the next decade of starving and diseased animals because you somehow believe that's BETTER then regulating a more humane slaughter process and ending the lives of these animals quickly.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

^^I agree. If you think that the only horses that no one wants are 'genetic losers' you should come clean stalls at our rescue for a day. Dani, a retired TB is far from a loser...as a matter of fact, she was quite the winner (100K). She has had atleast 3 foals...all of which were winners. The trouble is, she broke her withers in a starting gate...bye-bye riding...her last foal was a 'warmblood' attempt...she is 16HH the stud was 18HH the baby was a monster. He ripped her wide open...bye-bye babies. So now what? You couldn't put her down while she was ripped, she had a very expensive baby to nurse. So you would let her nurse her baby...and send her to the auction. While Dani is a beautiful horse and a perfect pasture pal...there arent enough pastures or open hearts to take her in. She is a hard keeper and costs almost double what a 'normal' horse would. She lives on bute and weight builder. We wont put her down because we promised not to. Had slaughter houses been open...Dani wouldn't be here...and that might not be a bad thing...sorry if i sound abrupt but the world is a naive place. In fairy tales horses without purpose live out there days in tall grass. In real life, the horses in use get the good grass and the ones who aren't get a shot.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> Now that over breeding doesn't pay any more, breeders will stop doing it. They will have to, or they will lose money. It just takes some time for the laws of supply and demand to come into effect.


(pardon the double post)

Good breeders have stopped breeding as much. Backyard breeders are still at it and they wont stop.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Cougar said:


> Not a bad idea. I'd help with that project any day.


Maybe I'll have to do it one day when I get a bit more settled into my career of choice. ;]

As for the breeding issue that was brought up:
Yes, responsible breeders will quit breeding 6-8 horse a year and stick with 1-2 instead. Backyard breeders will have as many babies a year as they can get. They sell their horses for cheapcheapcheap so they're more likely to have horses move off the property. Even if there's a more expensive, better quality horse just down the road.

The slaughterhouses closing in the States has desecrated the market for selling horses, and its backlash is hitting more than just the US. It's also hitting Canada, where the problem may be less severe, but it's still there. Our rescues are overflowing too, and we have slaughterhouses open for business.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^

As an excellent note, the idea that ending slaughter will somehow deter people from breeding because they "can't make money" is laughable at best. They don't make money NOW. Auctions are selling these animals for $50 a head to the kill buyers - nobody is making money by feeding a pregnant broodmare for 11 months and raising the foal for 3 months and then selling it for $50. And yet they continue to do it.

It will never end - backyard breeders don't breed with the INTENTION of the foal going to slaughter. Hell, it's amazing how many people I meet online who FREAK over horse slaughter and yet have no qualms breeding 5 craptastic mares a year. People are a stupid stupid animal by nature, and we simply don't make the connection when we're THAT far removed from it. As long as they don't directly sell the foal for meat, they feel justified in preaching about the evils of horse slaughter as last years broken legged baby makes the one way trip because they found a "friend" to take it for free.

Ending slaughter, ironically, will probably EXPLODE the market as all the idiots happily believe nothing bad can happen to the baby and continue breeding on the lost belief that somebody MUST want it.

To many people think they have the answer, but nobody seems to know what the real question is.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Yes.

The reasons I've been holding off on breeding my mare are because a) I don't have money to board a third horse, b) I don't have time to work with 2 horses, much less a baby, c) I want to show my mare off and get her name out before going about breeding her so that I have a better chance of selling either her or her baby.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

I am pro slaughter for a few reasons

- Because I am an intelligent, logical, rational person who does not allow my emotions to cloud my judgment of a bad situation.

-There is no reason not to be. Horses are livestock like cows, piggies, and cute little chickens, they are eaten in many countries as a delicacy and that stimulated our sluggish economy with the revenue flow gained by slaughtering our excess and selling it overseas at high price. We are not talking peoples pets here, if they were pets they would not be in an auction house, sanctuary, or kill pen, they are unwanted. If they were wanted they would be home in their pastures. So it is making something not useful and very expensive to keep into a positive source of revenue for both the horse industry and national economy.

- It is helping to relieve the surplus of horses. What good does it do to a horse to sit around on a feed lot or run through the auction house day after day? Is that horse being cared for properly? NO. Is it given the bare minimum to exist? YES. Does it cost money? YES. We have so many horses in this country that we do not need or want that are sitting around being abused and neglected and dying from it, slaughter is a quick means to an end of an already miserable life. I am not saying that it is the horses fault it is unwanted, it most likely is not, but the fact remains that it is. Why not give it a use and sell it for its meat? Make the market better for wanted horses?

-It is more logical than mass euthanasia. Euthanasia is time consuming, resource consuming, and wastes space and perfectly good meat. It costs a lot of money to put a horse down, even more money to haul its carcass to a place to bury it, even more to dig the hole, and then you have a huge plot of land useless because there are a bunch of horses rotting under it that could be eaten by some starving kids in Africa or something.

- It is no different that any other species that is culled every year. Deer season ring a bell? SAME THING, given a bullet and eaten by humans to keep populations under control. Brumbies in AUS are culled every year too. What about just about every other species of animal that is culled when they get out of control? What makes horses any different? That unlink free hunting of wild animals, they are guaranteed a quick end? The biggest difference is that the same bleeding hearts that caused the problem by backyard breeding for a kwute widdwe baybe and other such emotion driven nonsense are the ones who made such a stink and had the plants blocked from inspection in the first place.

The biggest reason-
*I LOVE HORSES. I care what happens to them individually and as a breed and right now both are suffering. I see an end to that suffering and it is EQUINE SLAUGHTER!*


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm anti-slaughter, and always have been. Horses (at least in the US) fall under the same category as cats and dogs. They're pets, and we have them because we enjoy them. They're not food animals. Their meat doesn't save starving people in third world countries because horse meat is one of the most expensive delicacies you can get. Dirt poor people can't afford it. Plus it's dangerous. Unlike food animals like cattle and pigs, there's no way of tracking where horses come from. They can have drugs like bute, banamine, dewormer, etc. in their systems (the labels on those drugs specifically say that they're not meant for animals intended for consumption) and it's toxic to humans. Now, I'm not one for the government interfering in people's lives, but I do think that owning a stallion should require a license (wouldn't that **** the BYB's off?). That's just my opinion.

I also think they should give out vouchers to low-income horse owners so they can have their horses gelded or euthanized for cheap (Yes, low income people shouldn't have horses at all, but the reality is, they do). The Animal Control in my area does that for cats and dogs, and I think it's a great idea. There's also a vet nearby that spays and neuters feral cats for ten bucks on certain days of the week. There should be something like that in the horse world. Then at least no one could use money as an excuse.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

^

It's only your opinion that they are pets. Cats and dogs are eaten in plenty of countries - I would have zero problem if we ate them here as well. Heck, I'd try it! Meat is meat and wasting it is silly to me.

However, you raise a good point - the problem I have with it is that people with your mindset rarely debate about WHAT the solution is then. Can you please answer these direct questions?

Do you find it better for horses to starve to death in fields then be slaughtered? Or do you believe this doesn't happen? If you can admit it DOES happen, what is your realistic solution to the problem? Spaying and neutering is great, but not realistic - the problem is NOT cost, the problem is state of mind. People don't keep studs because they can't afford to geld them, they keep studs because they somehow believe they'll make good studs.

I am interested in having an actual discussion with someone who is anti-slaughter and can actually back up their opinions. As I stated, people are quick to be anti-slaughter but I certainly don't see them ever coming up with VIABLE options to slaughter - they just want it to end and they don't care how and they don't care how unrealistic it is or who suffers for it, they just know it's wrong and it must end now! That is not a rational nor logical way of thinking.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Oooh. A possible debate. =o

I do believe that horses who make it to the slaughter house usually haven't been cared for... so no bute, no dewormer, and no other drugs would have been in their system, or if at some point they had been, their bodies would have eradicated it all by the time they even made it to the slaughter house.

Y'know... I heard a really good song on the radio for that possible future video that was being discussed earlier... and I totally forgot it. u.u


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

I'm not.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I am not against slaughter... As I said before, there will always be some horses that aren't good for anything else and don't have any other opportunities. What I am against is weak/inaccurate arguments and that's what people here are making. 

You can't argue that horses sent to slaughter plants are not mistreated because that isn't true. Out of 4 slaughter plants investigated in Canada, 3 were not following procedures for the humane treatment of the animals. (And one was not following procedures for food safety either - People will try to get away with whatever they think they can). This is assuming of course that humane treatment regulations are adequate in the first place.

You can't argue that the meat feeds hungry people because as I said before, it doesn't.

You can't argue that over breeding is an excuse because it doesn't need to happen. If you want to convince me that the laws of supply and demand don't work in this case, you're going to have to come up with something better than "backyard breeders _want_ to keep breeding." I _want_ to buy 20 horses too but I need to pay for a roof over my head first. There might be a tiny fraction of the population who can't even think that far ahead but in that case see point #2 below.

Besides, allowing slaughter makes backyard breeders more profitable, which allows them to breed even more crappy horses. It is like buying puppies from a puppy mill because they're mistreated. Sure, you save those particular dogs, but in the long run you're just contributing to the problem.

There are really only two logical arguments for slaughter: 1) I like to eat horse meat, and 2) There will always be loser horses no one wants. The first might be a logical argument, but it's not a very strong one. The second argument is valid but I contend that if the loser horses were the only ones we had to get rid of, we could afford to do it in a better way than industrial-plant, assembly-line style slaughter.

There is a third argument of course, which is that "I have sent some horses to slaughter in the past and now I'm not making as much money because nobody's buying the crappy horses I keep breeding." Talk about an emotional argument!

If anybody here is going to convince a smart person that their viewpoint is right they're going to have to do more homework.


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## Tennessee (Dec 7, 2008)

Jessabel said:


> I'm anti-slaughter, and always have been. Horses (at least in the US) fall under the same category as cats and dogs.


Wrong. They are classified as livestock, just like pigs and cows.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Exactly. Just because you love horses, that does not make them pets, they are _*hoofstock*_.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> I am not against slaughter... As I said before, there will always be some horses that aren't good for anything else and don't have any other opportunities. What I am against is weak/inaccurate arguments and that's what people here are making.
> 
> *Just because you do not see the logic, does not mean it is not there.*
> 
> ...


My answers are bolded.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Ponyboy said:


> There is a third argument of course, which is that "I have sent some horses to slaughter in the past and now I'm not making as much money because nobody's buying the crappy horses I keep breeding." Talk about an emotional argument!


The closest argument I remember to this part was me saying that ranchers are tossing their retired, unusable 20+ yo. horses into the desert and stuff because they can't afford to feed them alongside the working horses they have... and that they are sad to do it, but since they can't sell their horses to go to slaughter anymore, euthanasia is uber expensive... and no ones buying...

And even though I'm Canadian, I was mostly referring to the US slaughterhouses as well... I know Canada needs to heighten its standards and be better regulated... but it's no where near as bad as Mexico.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

Jhinnua said:


> but it's no where near as bad as Mexico.


Which is where all of the bleeding hearts are sending them instead of allowing it to happen here and be regulated.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

ponyboy said:


> You can't argue that horses sent to slaughter plants are not mistreated because that isn't true.


Mistreated...hell, they are being killed! I'd still rather see my horse killed than watch him starve to death. 



> You can't argue that the meat feeds hungry people because as I said before, it doesn't.


What kind of hungry...they say that eating when you are not hungry makes you fat....



> You can't argue that over breeding is an excuse because it doesn't need to happen


. 
You are right on this one. It sure doesn't need to happen. But it does. Backyard breeding has gone on for centuries and just because we stomp our lil feet and b**ch about it on some forum isn't going to stop Johnny Hillbilly from turning his mutt of a stud loose on a field full of equally ill-conformed horses. Chances are, he will get all colts and never have one of them gelded. 



> I _want_ to buy 20 horses too but I need to pay for a roof over my head first


. 
But if the roof over your head was FREE you might just have those 20 horses. It costs backyard breeders NOTHING to breed a horse. They aren't calling a vet, they arent using A.I here. They are breeding unsavory horses in an attempt to make a profit. If they get even $50 for a weanling, they made enough money to do it again. Stop and think about it. You have a stallion and a mare. If you just wanted a baby, what is stopping you? 




> Besides, allowing slaughter makes backyard breeders more profitable, which allows them to breed even more crappy horses


. 

Doesn't this kinda support your 'supply and demand' issue? There will always be a demand for horses to slaughter. All backyard breeders would be doing is meeting that supply. 



> There will always be loser horses no one wants. The first might be a logical argument, but it's not a very strong one


. 

In your opinion...what kind of horse are being slaughtered? Do they come at night in ninja suits and a big 18 wheeler covered in broken glass and steal your prize horse out of its field? People who send their horses to auction DO NOT WANT THEM ANYMORE! I don't know what other requirements need to be met for that horse to be labeled a 'loser' in your mind. 



> There is a third argument of course, which is that "I have sent some horses to slaughter in the past and now I'm not making as much money because nobody's buying the crappy horses I keep breeding."


Guess what those horses that a BYB bred before the slaughter plant are doing RIGHT NOW? Some are being used, as a cheap, decently trained horse has a pretty good chance of finding a home. The rest...the knock-kneed, the splay footed, the weak backed, the club footed, the blind, the psychotic and the just plain ugly are probably starving in a field now. You wanna talk emotion...I don't think BYB's are without a soul. You send off enough of your precious babies that you've been with since day one...you will think twice before you do it again. 


> If anybody here is going to convince a smart person that their viewpoint is right they're going to have to do more homework.


It is not nice to insult peoples intellegence. I am no more intellegent than you, I would never assume so from a post on a forum. We come from different view points and that is what this whole 'internet' thingy is supposed to help us with. I want you to see things from my perspective as I'm sure you want me to see things from yours. I don't understand why people have to get so huffy on this site and insult people. Adults discuss and analyze things. Children fight.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Honeysuga said:


> Which is where all of the bleeding hearts are sending them instead of allowing it to happen here and be regulated.


Yup, that's for certain.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Jhinnua said:


> The closest argument I remember to this part was me saying that *ranchers are tossing their retired, unusable 20+ yo. horses into the desert and stuff because they can't afford to feed them alongside the working horses they have...* and that they are sad to do it, but since they can't sell their horses to go to slaughter anymore, euthanasia is uber expensive... and no ones buying...


It's not the ranchers that are tossing horses out on the desert. A rancher has seen enough life and death that if feeding a horse past a usefull age bothered them they would just shoot it and roll it into the pit with the other animals that die on a farm or ranch. The people that are dumping horses on public land are the suburbanites that think that old bessie can survive like a mustang and let nature take it's course.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> It's not the ranchers that are tossing horses out on the desert. A rancher has seen enough life and death that if feeding a horse past a usefull age bothered them they would just shoot it and roll it into the pit with the other animals that die on a farm or ranch. The people that are dumping horses on public land are the suburbanites that think that old bessie can survive like a mustang and let nature take it's course.


Ah, forgive me.

I was reading an article, it was a long while back, about the effects on ranchers and horses being tossed onto public land. I might have messed up on the details.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Ranchers are trying to use the public land to benefit themselves and the public but they have to deal with feral horses (mustangs included) competing for the same grass thier cattle and sheep should be getting.


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## ilovemyPhillip (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm pro-slaughter. I believe horses that have no purpose other than to be a pasture ornament, or hay-burner, could make a decent meal for someone. I love cows. though I continue to eat them. Same goes for chickens, hogs, lambs, and goats. They're [horses] intended purposes no longer remain, so they now they have a new destiny.. The dinner plate.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> Ranchers are trying to use the public land to benefit themselves and the public but they have to deal with feral horses (mustangs included) competing for the same grass thier cattle and sheep should be getting.


That would make sense, wouldn't it? Gee Jhin... logic, logic.

"But I hate logic," says her brain, "Logic's hard."


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Awesome points everyone!

I'm truly eager to hear the point of view from someone who is anti-slaughter and has some solid opinions to back their points up. I love a good debate, and unfortunately it seems like most anti-slaughter people are to emotional to think with logic. I'm not being sarcastic here, I enjoy both sides of every argument. I am 110% anti-religion and I actually have intense religious discussions with my very good Christian friend because she's so logical and straight forward in her answers, it's a delight to banter with her.

ponyboy - your post is bordering on emotional. You essentially did nothing but ramble on about how others were wrong without actually providing any true opinions to my questions. You are still acting like BYB occurs because people are profiting - exactly how does one profit from feeding a pregnant mare for 11 months, raising a hungry colt for 3 years and then selling it's carcass for a few hundred bucks? They can't get more then $50 for foals because even the kill buyers don't really want them, so your market stability theory is flawed at best. Honeysuga hit it on the head, you're only evading the point in hopes we will be convinced you are an intelligent human being who knows what you're talking about but your veily thinned attempt to insult us is a waste of time because we're a little more intelligent then to not understand what you're implying.

Emotions never make for good debate points.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Unfortunately the world is full of idiots.

-Idiots who breed unsuitable horses.
-Idiots who think young horses do not need to learn manners from an early age.
-Idiots who shouldn't be riding/training young horses, leading to behavioural problems when training issues aren't addressed.
-Idiots who buy the wrong horse just because they want something of a certain height/age/breed/colour even though the horse is not suitable for them, leading to behavioural problems when they can't ride it.
-Idiots who buy horses without realizing the amount of care and maintanence that comes with ownership, leading to health complications.

Thanks to all the idiots in the world we have too many horses and not enough good homes for them.

I hate the thought of horse slaughter but unfortunately the alternative is that some horses are left to die slowly and miserably, I would rather a quick death for horses that have no other option.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Yes. Please. If you are going to make this into debate, make it a real one. I also enjoy a good debate, but if all you're going to do is stomp your foot about how right you are and how wrong everyone else is, your post is pretty much useless. =P

I'm still on the pro- side. Someone brought it up but I don't remember who. I'd rather have my horse shot than starved. Just like I'd rather die suddenly then slowly.

You cannot base your opinions on PETA videos. Just because PETA found the ONE situation where something bad happened, doesn't mean it's like that everywhere all the time. How could it be? Especially health-wise. No one would be buying the meat if it were making them sick.

Another big point I'm not sure has been made is that horses are not BRED with the intention of being butchered. You don't make a foal, fatten it up, and then butcher it. Horses are "made" with the intention of being a working animal for humans. Whatever the work, it is "made" for work. Not food. I've never heard of a horse-feed lot like they have for cattle. Have you?

As for the argument about how not all horses that go to slaughter are "loser" horses. Maybe they didn't start that way, but they are loser horses now. Even if they were Grand Prix horses five years ago, it would take YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS to get them back to that point, if you could get them back to that point at all. Chances are they are probably so old it wouldn't even be worth trying anyway.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> ponyboy - your post is bordering on emotional. You essentially did nothing but ramble on about how others were wrong without actually providing any true opinions to my questions. You are still acting like BYB occurs because are profiting -


I don't know where you're reading that. I didn't say that BYB make money. When people have a business that's failing financially they often put their own personal money into it, correct? Chances are that's what these BYB types have always done. But they can only do that to the point where they can't afford to see to their own needs anymore, a point which is more likely to come now that there is no slaughter. 

I also wasn't trying to make anti-slaughter arguments in that post. I was pointing out that so far the pro-slaughter arguments I'd heard weren't very sound.

But while we're on the subject... What I'm saying is that considering the lifespan of a horse, the slaughter ban has not been around long enough to have an effect on supply and demand yet. Not to mention that the US economy has been in the toilet, a factor which no one seems to be considering. How do you know the large number of unwanted horses right now isn't caused by the economy? I live in a capital city. We're shielded from the worst effects of the recession, and I can tell you without a doubt that horse prices haven't decreased in the slightest around here.

Everyone assumes that over breeding is inevitable, but no one knows for certain because this is the first time a slaughter ban has ever been attempted. Let's give it a fair chance to work, shall we? Consider it an experiment. If there are still the same number of unwanted horses in another 10 years I'll change my tune.

And if the supply of unwanted horses does go down, the entire industry will be better off. Then we'll be able to start slaughter back up again but do it right this time (i.e. the way Britain does it) because of the lower demand. That to me would be the best outcome.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Jessabel said:


> Their meat doesn't save starving people in third world countries because horse meat is one of the most expensive delicacies you can get. Dirt poor people can't afford it.


Someone else has probably pin pointed this statement already, so sorry but I just need to say it.

The meat is expensive because its hard to come by. You think Mexican and Canadian governments are dumb? Of course they're going to slap a big price tag on something if they can. If the US opened slaughterhouses, it would create competition. Competition creates price drops. Price drops mean more people can afford it. In addition, more meat means lower prices--the money is made on volume. 

That is all.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Im pro slaughter because all da pwety horseys ned a exape frm al da evil ppl out der!


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

.Delete. said:


> Im pro slaughter because all da pwety horseys ned a exape frm al da evil ppl out der!


I think this is my favorite post in the whole thread. =P


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

It makes me wanna be evil and draw a little kid saying it. >__>;;;


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Someone else has probably pin pointed this statement already, so sorry but I just need to say it.
> 
> The meat is expensive because its hard to come by. You think Mexican and Canadian governments are dumb? Of course they're going to slap a big price tag on something if they can. If the US opened slaughterhouses, it would create competition. Competition creates price drops. Price drops mean more people can afford it. In addition, more meat means lower prices--the money is made on volume.
> 
> That is all.


Also it is only select cuts of meat that are expensive delicacies. Not all cuts are created equal. There are cheap cuts on a horse just like on a cow.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

riccil0ve said:


> I think this is my favorite post in the whole thread. =P


Im just sick of all the Slaughter threads beating it into the ground. Iv explained my opinion way too many times on the subject. So i summed it up in a way that the anti-slaughter people would understand :lol:


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

No responses addressing my point about the economy? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. 

I'll say it one more time: The belief that over breeding is inevitable is pure speculation. So is my belief that it isn't. The difference is that I acknowledge that and I have stated I would be willing to change my opinion if given adequate proof to the contrary. 

So who is being the mature person here?

I will conclude by saying that if you're really that concerned about all these unwanted horses, put your money and/or your time where your mouth is and help out. There's more than one way to end the life of an unwanted horse. I have donated to the closest rescue and the SPCA, and I don't even have a job! I would volunteer too if I had access to a vehicle.

Even if you believe slaughter is the only answer, how many of you are campaigning for its reinstatement? I have done everything I can to help unwanted horses. Can you say the same?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Horses are livestock. Period. Just because my horse is a pet to me, does not mean they are not livestock.

Slaughter gives a functional end use to an animal that otherwise would be a burden.

And you can not say it is not a burden. Euthanasia and disposal is expensive unless you have the options that people like Kevin have. 

But really, why waste all that perfectly good meat? 

I think we as a country are missing the boat on all the cats and dogs we euthanize too. We should find a way to process them for meat and sell them to countries that consume such things.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Just another thought, I only found out recently that horse slaughter is banned here in the US (yes, I was a little slow to catch on). Back home in Australia thousands of horses are slaughtered each year (I just googled the number and found an estimate at 40,000). Whilst many of these horses were no doubt beautiful and had potential to be re homed for any amount of uses, the simple fact is that there were not enough homes for them to go to. 

One of the things differences between Australia and the US is that you do not have the volume of starving and neglected horses that you see here in the US. Just driving around the general Houston/Austin/Dallas area I have seen more neglected horses than I EVER saw ANYWHERE back home (not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it is far less common). Do I think they _deserve_ to be slaughtered? Of course not. However they also do not deserve to be abandoned in a small paddock with little or no feed with no hoof care or medical assistance.

I think the racing industry has a lot to answer for in terms of churning out high volumes of horses with little regard to their future beyond the racetrack.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Ponyboy, I wont readdress my opinions nor will I argue with someone who hasn't a clue. While horses are fun and beautiful and intellegent, for most people, they are a business. I don't think you fully grasp that concept.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> I'll say it one more time: The belief that over breeding is inevitable is pure speculation. So is my belief that it isn't. The difference is that I acknowledge that and I have stated I would be willing to change my opinion if given adequate proof to the contrary.


How is life with your head in the sand?


Look at it this way, how many years have there been very public campaigns trying to reduce the over population issues with dogs and cats? Lets just agree that it has been a VERY long time.
And there is still an issue with too many cats and dogs.

What makes you think ending slaughter will make people breed horses responsibly?

Heck, there are threads all over this forum with irresponsible breeding and people not be taking appropriate actions.


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## O4CRISAKE (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm a fence sitter on this issue.

One - Craigs list is a great resource for demographics on BYB's who should need a license to procreate (both personally and for their horses). Crap breeding crap .. wonderful. Slaughter for the bi-products of bad breeding, over breeding or the "oops" factor is so extremely sad and this area should be addressed for controls. 

Two - the reality of having to put down a favorite pet, working animal, sick horse, old horse or just a horse that isn't a good sale candidtae is just that .. reality. 

Three - does anyone, even the kings of TB's in Kentucky actually make money at the breeding game anymore? Seems to me its a crap shoot on all levels. I just wish people would back off so that supply and demand catch up.

Four - my problem isn't so much with slaughter as it is with the process leading up to slaughter. We've all seen the double decker trucks and the accidents and the images are graphic and revolting whether you are fore or against slaughter. We've all seen photos of the feedlot auction houses where horses hobble on three legs, have kick injuries, don't have enough meat on them to feed a fat dog, let alone a starving family of four in Darfur. 

IN MY REAL WORLD - slaughter (and that is such a terrible choice of names) should be available, inspected, and regulated. It should be a viable option for horse owners/breeders that would allow them direct access to euthinasia for animals that can't be taken care of anylonger, for whatever reason. Drive up to the door (make an appointment if necessary), have a handler quietly walk the horse (if possible) into a stall and have the kill done quietly, calmly, and efficiently. 

Once the soul has left the body the reality is that you have a carcass in front of you that could be used in several ways. You've kindly removed the burden of life from your horse and he/she is no longer a horse. Emotionally sad, but a fact.

I vilify those who "dump" their problem in a sales/auction house who don't have the courage to personally make the decision. That by driving away, they no longer need to feel responsible for what happens next 'cause they didn't have anything to do with it. These are the people who need to be smacked up side of the head and be told to wake up.

For the US to close and ban slaughter houses (still hate that word) was a huge mistake. It just made it a much more prolonged and sad path to a reality.

For me, the reality is having our horses have the chance to say goodbye to each other and with me or their owner, quietly walking them to a final safe place and having the vet put them to sleep. When the soul has left, the carcass is removed and we bury the halter and a braid from the tail in our memory garden. I could no sooner put my horse on the truck to go to a feedlot or auction than I could dump my dog in the street to fend for itself.

Phew .. my two cents.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> I will conclude by saying that if you're really that concerned about all these unwanted horses, put your money and/or your time where your mouth is and help out. There's more than one way to end the life of an unwanted horse. I have donated to the closest rescue and the SPCA, and I don't even have a job! I would volunteer too if I had access to a vehicle.
> 
> Even if you believe slaughter is the only answer, how many of you are campaigning for its reinstatement? I have done everything I can to help unwanted horses. Can you say the same?


And what are you doing ponyboy? If you want to help, sell your house, buy a piece of land, live in a tent on it and bring all of the mistreated horses there. Thats DOING something, even if its ridiculous.

If theres a pro-slaughter campaign, point me to it and I'll join it. I've donated money to appropriate rescues and I've taken time to volunteer for dog, cat, and horse shelters. I've donated money quite a few times as well, and I donate every chance I get. But unfortunately, having a big heart is not enough, because people think that they need to inhabit every square inch of the planet, and leave nothing for the animals. 

Didn't Australia a few years back (or maybe they currently do) have a problem with the wild rabbit population? What do you think they did to combat that, ponyboy, put them all in a box and sell them to little girls outside supermarkets? Nope, they killed them dead. Everyone in this country who wants a horse and can afford one, has one, or however many they can afford, sometimes even one more then they can afford because we like them so much. The human resources have been spent, so I'd personally rather see the horses killed humanely then starve to death or be sent to god knows where to be hacked at and beaten.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Economy:
It matters not what state the economy is, the world will still turn. There will still be horses that are being bred and horses that are unwanted.

If the economy really mattered, then I would have seen a decrease in customers while I was working at Subway... but nope. I'm pretty sure we earned more in the recession than we did before it happened... and people could have gone to cheaper places to get their food.


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## O4CRISAKE (Jun 1, 2010)

Never thought of judging the state of the economy on the sale of Subway sandwiches.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Haha. It's the only reference I got at the moment. XD But, seriously... there were times I felt like I was going to die 'cause I probably served 25 or so people by myself per hour... The only thing that was bad for me working there was that either there were too many staff members (most who didn't do anything) or there weren't enough (and I still had to do most of everything)... and the manager was really bad so we did lose income... just... the recession didn't have much of an effect.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Ponyboy horses are a business maybe youd understand that better if you were actually involved in horses, which you are not.


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

these are pretty much all the reason i am pro slaughter theres is 100,000 unwanted horses in this country alone, i pray for the day slaughter houses re open, if there were slaughter houses in the u.s like they where before they would be regulated and aproved by the AVMA not to mention we wouldnt be shipping and hauling that many horses for that long of a distance keeping them in better health and in more comfortable statuses. there is also the issue of all the third world countries not being able to eat their beef because of mad cow deases, anf if we allowed slaughter houses to reopen we would be able to that profit into the 14 billion dollad pet food industry because horse meat in a 100 times better then beef and lame, thats why before people where boycoting the zoos and big cat sancuaries horse meat was being fed to our wild cats so they cuold get almost the same nutrionail value that they get in the wild. this is way horse slaughter should be rejoyed not rejected


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I think the economy is irrelevant to the BYB situation, honestly. These people that are over-breeding aren't thinking about the economy, they are thinking about the $50 they get for their cute little foal, because some soft-hearted animal lover came by and had to get it out of that situation. But soft-hearted animal lover also has five dogs, a dozen cats, two lizards, three birds, and a camel. All of whom came from a simlar situation. Eventually, someone has to go, and soft-hearted animal lover realizes the horse is the most expensive, so off goes the used-to-be-cute-weanling-but-now-is-a-pushy-two-year-old-stud-colt to the next person with an ego bigger than Texas but hasn't a clue. So down the line this horse goes, owner to owner, never learning anything and just becoming a bigger, larger pain in the ***. By the time the horse is 12, it's stick thin with elf feet and hasn't seen a drop of water in weeks. Are people really so naive to believe that doesn't happen?


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

.Delete. said:


> Im pro slaughter because all da pwety horseys ned a exape frm al da evil ppl out der!


I'm probably more anti-slaughter than I am pro-slaughter and I find that offensive. Are many people anti-slaughter because they can't handle the idea of their pet being killed for someone else to eat? Yes. Does that mean that these people only comprehend ridiculous baby talk? No. So if you'd like to make a comment regarding being pro-slaughter using proper english and spelling I'd be happy to give you a legible response.

I'm not from the USA but one of the main reasons I'm anti-slaughter is because of the lack of regulations. 

I've seen the photos of horses when they come off the double decker CATTLE trucks (if the horses even make it off at all), I've seen the trampled foals, the horses with half a leg, the horses with half a face and all sorts of horrific injuries. One argument I've seen throughout this thread for slaughter is that it's HUMANE. Tell me what about those injuries sounds humane to you?

YES, there is an overpopulation of horses, YES slaughter is one way of dealing with it, but I'm of the belief that if you're too cheap to pay for the euthanasia of your old/crippled/lame/useless horse when it is of no further use to you - you are too cheap to own a horse. Go online and play horseland. At least that's free.

Now, I'm not a "bleeding heart" who thinks that homes can magikally be found for all the unwanted horses out there (who coincidentally are mostly bred by people who mustn't have IQ's out of the double digits), but in order for me to support slaughter the following things NEED to be fixed:

- Regulations regarding medications. A previous poster said that most horses going to slaughter are unwanted so probably haven't been wormed/buted etc. in their life. That may be the case for a small minority of horses, but the facts are, a lot of horses that go to slaughter WERE cared for at some point in their lives. This means they WERE wormed, they WERE buted when they were injured and they ARE unsafe for human consumption. That's what the warning labels on the medications are for! So until there is some way of ensuring that this contaminated meat isn't used for human consumption, I'll be anti-slaughter.

- Regulations regarding transport. I don't care how "unwanted" or "useless" these horses are - there is NOTHING humane about horses being trampled to death and mutilated because they have been transported in CATTLE trailers. Horses ARE NOT cattle. Sure it's "economical" for the slaughterhouses and kill buyers to transport this way, because hey! if the horse is dead when it arrives that's less work for us! So until horses can be transported humanely in horse-safe trailers to the slaughterhouses, I'll be anti-slaughter.

- Regulations regarding slaughtering. I've seen the youtube videos, I've seen the photos. It may not happen in the majority of cases, but then again it may. I will NEVER be pro-slaughter until a humane way of slaughtering horses is put into place and REGULATED. I remember reading an article on the fur trade, one farm kills the foxes using an electric bar, the foxes (having never been handled) when presented with this bar, bite onto it and BAM dead. To me, that is more humane than using a captive bolt/shotgun operated by someone without proper training. The captive bolt was designed for cattle, which by nature are a lot less skittish than horses when packed into crushes (meat cattle are packed into crushes regularly throughout their lives for dehorning, dipping, vet treatment. Feral/untrained horses? Not so much) I have no qualms about an experienced person killing a horse with a single bullet to the head, but this MUST BE REGULATED.

So to reiterate my above essay for those who don't want to read through the whole thing - I am anti-slaughter, but only because of the inhumane treatment of the horses on the way to and in the slaughterhouses. If any pro-slaughter people can give me examples of places where there is evidence of regulation and humane treatment I'm happy to re-examine my views, but until then, I'll stick to my opinion.

Like I wrote at the top of my post, I'm happy to debate and discuss the topic as I believe it's worthy of discussion, but it really doesn't help your cause when you mock people with a different belief to you.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I am going to assume that since you live on the other side of the planet that if you have been to this country you have not spent any time touring slaughter houses. I have been in several of all different sizes and while I have seen some ignorance and a few accidents I have seen very little cruelty. The people that work at slaughter houses just want to do thier jobs and go home. I have also seen the videos on youtube and quite frankly I have seen far worse abuses when novices are trying to load horses in trailers than in those clips that PETA selected out of thousands of hours of tape to make thier 5 minute video. Accidents happen but they are rare. The people that buy slaughter horses don't want thier horses ripping off a leg or getting stomped to death and you can bet if it happens regularly something would change.


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

Yes, I admitted in post I was on the other side of the world and have no first hand experience with slaughterhouses. I don't support PETA at all - I'm of the opinion that they are completely over the top and I don't support the way they go about "educating" people. 

Like I said above - I'm happy to re-examine my opinion if someone can give me PROOF, photos, videos, reports, articles. If there are inspections going on and places are approved and passing there WILL be a paper trail. Having said that I have little to no opinion on the way Mexican slaugterhouses are operated - the MULTITUDE of videos I have seen regarding that are not from 1 or 2 occurences.

I also don't remember stating anything regarding the employees of the slaughterhouses in my post, I have nothing against them just doing their jobs my problem is with the methods used, ESPECIALLY in transporting the horses. While I highly doubt the transporters are being intentionally cruel, the fact remains that double decker trucks are NOT designed to transport horses and "accidents" will happen when they're used. 

So, kevinshorses I'd be interested to see something that backs up your opinion that the slaughterhouses are humane because like I said I'm not averse to changing my opinion, if presented with facts to the contrary


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

To reiterate on transportation. It would NOT be as bad if the US horse slaughterhouses weren't closed. Now they have to be shipped to Mexico, where they don't have the regulations that the US did. Not to mention it's a longer trip. If the "horse-lovers" that got the plants closed hadn't done it, we would still have how many slaughterhouses for horses? And maybe made more?

Also, you can't take any factual information from a PETA video. Sorry. PETA caters to a very specific person, with the intention of showing just what those persons need to see to sign the petition PETA wants signed. Lots of filming goes into those videos, lots of editing, lots of, believe it or not, LIES. Honestly, you have no idea that these aren't hired people to get jobs at a slaughterhouse to accidently on purpose do something. PETA and YouTube are not reliable sources of information. Try using them in a college paper. It won't work.

Edited to reply: How can we get articles/videos/pictures of how the US slaughterhouses WERE humane when none of them are open?


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

I do believe one of the first things I posted in my previous reply was _*"I don't support PETA at all - I'm of the opinion that they are completely over the top and I don't support the way they go about "educating" people."*_

There are many covert videos online findable via a general google search, and yes they have most likely been edited, are you trying to tell me that if there was a video of a completely regulation compliant slaughterhouse that they wouldn't have edited out any footage to the contrary? 

I also wouldn't liken this thread to a college paper, especially due to the one track opinion of many of the posters. I'm sure if Canadian slaughterhouses are compliant (which from a previous reply I believe someone said 3 out of 4 of them WEREN'T) there would be proof of this. If there is proof of the bad, then theoretically there is proof of the good.

The closure of the American slaughterhouses is really a whole 'nother can of worms, and I'm sure it wasn't just the "horse-lovers" who got the plants closed, if it were that easy you'd think the "animal-lovers" would have gotten decent penalties for animal cruelty and neglect by now but that hasn't happened. I'd be interested to know the underlying factors behind the closure of the American slaughterhouses though.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Lifeofriley said:


> So, kevinshorses I'd be interested to see something that backs up your opinion that the slaughterhouses are humane because like I said I'm not averse to changing my opinion, if presented with facts to the contrary


Every U.S. slaughterhouse is USDA inspected and has been for 50+ years. That is a fact. Thier reports are not released to everyone so I have no access to them. If you want to see them you're going to have to get them yourself. I don't know that I would call anything that ends with a dead horse humane but they are as painless as possible. Again I just know what I saw and even if I had video it wouldn't change anyones mind. As far as your opinion goes I really could care less about changing it. If you want to cure the ignorance then work harder and find the proof you need. Go to a slaughterhouse. Watch trucks unloading horses. visit a horse feedlot. YOU educate YOURSELF and don't depend on others to do it for you.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Canada's regulations are fine (far as I know, I'd have to do research on that... maybe on my day off I will. ;])

The people doing the imposing of said regulations... aren't so much. They let a lot slip under the radar until one comes along that's all "Hey, wait... this isn't right." and then the people get investigated and fined.

It's the same with various other things in Canada, like our housing issue... we have houses that inspectors pass and then fall down on the new owners.

And our food issue.
Only our food issue got fixed (if anyone heard the story of Maple Leaf Foods... I respect them a lot because of how they handled the crisis a couple years back)


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

In America slaughter houses are regulated. A majority of the clips and or photos of HORRBILE IN HUMANE MEANIE-HEADED SLAUGHTER HOUSES are infact from other countries such as Mexico, who has no regulations. Also a majority of those clips/photos are from illegal slaughter mills.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

kevinshorses said:


> Every U.S. slaughterhouse is USDA inspected and has been for 50+ years. That is a fact. Thier reports are not released to everyone so I have no access to them. If you want to see them you're going to have to get them yourself. I don't know that I would call anything that ends with a dead horse humane but they are as painless as possible. Again I just know what I saw and even if I had video it wouldn't change anyones mind. As far as your opinion goes I really could care less about changing it. If you want to cure the ignorance then work harder and find the proof you need. Go to a slaughterhouse. Watch trucks unloading horses. visit a horse feedlot. YOU educate YOURSELF and don't depend on others to do it for you.


This!

But again, the US slaughter houses aren't open. You can watch the Mexican and Canadian slaughter houses at work all you want [and although I didn't specifically say this in my first post, I meant the US plants] but I'm talking about [and most everyone else] the US plants that were closed and WHY that was a bad thing. The US isn't Canada or Mexico, it has different rules and regulations that you can no longer check up on because they are CLOSED, and as Kevin said, they don't just release information willy nilly.

ETA: Delete hit the nail on the head. Just because the writing on the video says it's in the US doesn't mean it is. The US takes their rules pretty seriously for the most part.


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

I'm sorry kevinshorses but I find your reply quite rude. I was genuinely interested in any evidence that would show contrary to what I've seen myself, and being from Australia (where we have these nifty Freedom of Information laws, making a lot of things accessible) I wasn't aware that such things in the USA were un-accessible. I (obviously naively) believed that such reports would be viewable in the same way you can view how a certain restaurant or cafe performed in its food safety audits.

I also find it odd that when presented with someone who wants to learn why you think a certain way and being open to learning why your response basically comes down to "it's not MY responsibility to help educate you" which is coincidentally why the USA has such a horse overpopulation problem at the present because it's NOT MY PROBLEM. To me, your reply was basically pointless and added nothing to the thread.

I have, infact, searched for an article of some sort explaining the reasons behind the closing of the slaughterhouses in the US because, if as you say, they were USDA compliant for over 50 years it would seem there was no real reason for closing the slaughterhouses other than public backlash. Probably not coincidentally, the only articles I could find on the subject were either on Wikipedia or on websites of horse rescues and neither gave a reason for the bill being passed.

Jhinnua, are reports on inspections accessible by the public in Canada or would you have to "find them youself" as kevinshorse said?


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

I'm going to have to check that out and get back to you. I know more about US law than Canada half the time. (I have a lot of friends from the US and we talk a lot about their issues) Generally Canada is more lax in allowing freedom of info I think, but... the government is weird sometimes.

In my home town, for instance, the municipality forced a really good candy shop to close (he fought if for 5 years and was finally like "F**k it") because he wouldn't take down a fake exterior wall, because it didn't go with the rest of the town's style... but looked really good anyway.

And they wouldn't allow a couple who immigrated from England to have a wooden sign hanging from their shop to give it a more 'old brit' flare... even though our town is supposed to be themed 'old Britain'. I'm pretty sure the new municipality changed the rules for that though.


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

Ah yes, good old governments - when I was younger they closed down an AWESOME park behind our local shops because a girl was standing up on the flying fox, fell off and broke her arm. The parent's sued. The council closed it down. It's off topic but seriously? Who sues over a kid falling off something (when it was their own fault anyway) and gets a kid's playground closed down?


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

The same people who sue after breaking into someones house and getting bitten by the family dog. X]

Or break in and twist their ankle slipping on ice in the driveway...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I'm sure the records are accessible if you wanted to search through the piles of records to find the violations. Here is how the USDA works. There is a huge book that details how every single thing in a plant is to be done. This includes how to unload the animals to loading the boxes of meat on a truck. When an inspector sees something that does not follow the Standard Operating Procedures or SOP's the inspector can either informally suggest it get changed or he/she can write up a non-compliance report or NR. When an NR is written the plant has usually 24 hours to either fix the problem or show what they are doing to resolve it (sometimes there are mechanical or building failures that can't be resolved in 24 hrs). Some things have to be resolved immediately or operations are halted. There are several NR's daily in any plant. They range from condensation on the ceiling to dirty boots in a locker room to rough handling of the animals. Inspectors don't write reports about how wonderfully the animals are handled so the only reports you will see is the ones where things were not in compliance. You can wait for someone to spoon feed you information or you can go out and get it for yourself. I'm sorry if that sounds rude but that's the way the world works. I prefer to do my own research and witness things with my own eyes before I take a firm stand.


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

Thanks kevinshorses that was helpful information. Like I said, I'm located over 11,000kms away so I'm not in a position to see first hand what the slaughterhouses were like. From my experience of Australian salesyards however, and the treatment of animals in them, coupled with what I've read/viewed online of American salesyards I think the cases of neglect and cruelty that come through each is comparable.

That's another reason I'm anti-slaughter, I think it does just as much to contribute to the animal abuse/neglect problem as it does to stop it - some of the horses I've seen dumped at auctions and run through are in despicable condition and the owners get off scot free with a nice little profit in their pocket.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

riccil0ve said:


> I think the economy is irrelevant to the BYB situation, honestly.


Not totally. 

The economy affects them because they used to be the place the clueless sort could easily buy a horse for very little money. It made the BYB happy and the horse buyer.

With things the way they are even the clueless sort can buy a pretty nice horse for the BYB price with out going to a BYB.

Decreased sales does not stop the BYB from producing as many babies as they can though. And these babies need some place to go.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

LifeofRiley. Id rather have a horse be in horrible conditions for a day or 2 then "killed" the stave to death in a pasture or suffer from disease etc etc. Id rather have a horse killed quickly, then die a slow painful death. Sometimes yes there is accidents and "inhumane" slaughter. But in all reality wouldnt you think its more inhumane to leave a horse to leave a horse to its slow death?


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

not to mention U.S. slaughter houses where very humane the process was exactly the same used to slaughter hundreds of cattle a day, this method was approved by American Veterinary Medial Association and American Association of Equine Practitioners. 

breeders need to be regulated, stallions need to regulated and how many mares that are pregnated every year need to be regulated and registrations fees should be paid for all of these horses. over half of the horses born every year are homeless or unwanted before their two. this is a CRISIS we need to find a safe protected way to despose of these horses while recylcing the end product which is the meat. if we the public dont want to sent our horses to slaughter then we need to try soemthing else like euthanizing and rendering plants but that expansive and taxes will go up.

keeping lame, sick, dangerous horses in our community is not healthy specialy when those horses are cludering our sancuaries and rescues, healthly, fixable horses need to be their so they can be rehiblitated so that they can be adopted and live a good life, not left in a pasture or stall cause theres no room. 

and i love my horses but if i couldnt afford them and had no place to send them like a sancuary or rescue to send them i would send them to auction cause i am going to feed my children before i feed them and i am going to pay bills that care for my children before i care for them, and i will not watch them starve as i wait 6 months to several years to sell them i will sent them to an auction i jus hope there will be a U.S slaughter house open so that i know they will have a safe protected reponsible death, and their meat will go to feed a family over seas, or large cats so that we can keep them in captivity so that we can study and keep them around for my grand children or go into feeding a pet because horse meat is 100 percent more healthy then beef or lamb.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Simply put - I am for equine slaughter because I have yet to see a single convincing argument AGAINST it.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I'm not going to post a big, long reply, because I've already said it all many times before.

I'm not against equine slaughter. If you wish to know why, search my posts over the last 6 to 8 months.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I realize now that I've made a mistake in this thread... I tend to think of the term "backyard breeder" to mean any bad breeder like it does in the dog world. In fact the majority of horses sent to slaughter come from racing and rodeo. Racers can afford to send their unwanted horses to slaughter because their profit margins are big enough. Breeders of bucking broncos don't have much choice because no one else wants a bucking bronc.

More importantly, slaughter benefits these industries by allowing breeders to produce more horses than they could if they had to find homes for the ones they didn't want (or ruined). That's how it increases their profits. 

The number of horses produced by actual backyard breeders - those who breed fugly horses - is small in comparison. Which again leads me to believe that the plague of starving horses right now was not caused by BYBers, but by the economy. Chances are those horses belong to people who still want them but can't afford them.

Both the racing and the slaughter industry in the UK are more humane than the ones here. So the problem isn't racing or slaughter, it's something to do with North American culture. Maybe we're just spoiled because resources are cheaper here.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Ponyboy, i wish you were honestly involved in the horse industry then maybe you might understand it better and realize you have no idea of what your talking about.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Actually .Delete., Pony has a halfway decent grasp of the situation.

Yes, it's the BIG breeders who breed thousands of horses a year from where the majority of slaughter bound horses come. TBs and QHs make up a very large percentage of the animals going to slaughter. The BYBs do contribute to this number, but the majority come from the larger breeders.

I do have to disagree when Pony says the breeders _make_ money sending horses to slaughter, because they don't. It _costs_ quite a bit of money to breed the mare, keep her during her pregnancy, and get the proper prenatal and post natal care for the dam and foal. So when a breeder sells a horse for $500.00 or less, they're hardly being 'rewarded' for sending animals to slaughter.

I know that CANTER, AC4H, and other places exist solely to try and find homes for horses whose owners no longer want them on their feed bill. Generally, it's the trainers offering these animals for free or a small fee, because they don't want their charges going to slaughter.

The economy does have quite a bit to do with the starving, abandoned animals we're seeing. You can't blame that on the BYBs. It's due to the people who can no longer afford their horses and have nowhere else to turn. The rescues are full to bursting, and even the ACOs are leaving animals where they are, even if it's not under optimal conditions.

So, a slow death by starvation, which is extremely painful from what I understand, or a quick one? The result is still a dead animal, but with less suffering if it's slaughtered and its meat put to good use.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Perhaps im reading what Ponyboy is saying wrong, and/or taking it wrong.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> I do have to disagree when Pony says the breeders _make_ money sending horses to slaughter, because they don't. It _costs_ quite a bit of money to breed the mare, keep her during her pregnancy, and get the proper prenatal and post natal care for the dam and foal. So when a breeder sells a horse for $500.00 or less, they're hardly being 'rewarded' for sending animals to slaughter.


After re-reading, i completely agree with this.


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

exactly, you do really make a profit when it comes to slaughter and auction and since now a days slaughter houses from other countries will have buyers come to the U.S to purchase cheap end of the auction horses thats why we asociate sick skinny hurt horses with slaughter because the public is prolly not going to purchase those types of horses they want safe healthy sound horses ans since the U.S cannot ask what is going to be done with those horses buyers can purchase several horses for as little as 50cents a bl. which is not that much if you have several under wieght horses. 

and yes big breeders do contibute because they are pumping out such a large number a year but if we had more people decided to buy or adopt a horse instead of breeding thier first horse or their favorate or their best horse thier would be hundreds of horses with good homes and not one hundred thousand that are homeless and or unwanted. 

i understand if you fancy raising a foal or trianing a blank slaight but go on craigslist theres many new borns on there for dirt cheap or go to the auction or adopt one from BLM their are several BLM and wild mustangs that need new loving homes, there are probably several horses at your local rescue that just foaled. im just saying there are better more responsible options.

however i am going through this with a friend who is breeding her 6 yr old QH mare to a great looking stud for the pure reason of just having her favorate horses foal. " if i cant have her foal, i dont want any foal" is a direct quote. 

this sadens me and i feel for the life she could have helped and i feel for the life who is coming into this harsh world where in two years this young full time college student may loose her job or find it impossible to keep her three horses and then it will take months to years to sell maybe one of them and she will find herself in tough situations. and unfortionatly adding to the hundreds of horses that end up homeless and unwanted by its second bday. 

im not saying this will happen or that it couldnt happen to anyone encluding me im just saying i wouldnt allow another young healthy horse into the world when i could have taken in a life that was need. 

i hope all of you understand what i am trying to say and if you do breed i hope you are breeding for the right reason if their is any, but let me make myself clear i dont judge you in anyway i just am disappointed and hope you see the benifits to the horses and community when you dont breed.


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

sorry typo i ment you dont really make a profit =)


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

Interesting. I've just got a few questions for you.

For those of you who are pro-slaughter, what are your views on the fact that most horse medication marks clearly NOT FOR ANIMALS INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION? Are you comfortable sending a horse for human consumption that knowingly isn't fit for it? I think there would be very few horses that at some point in their life hadn't had bute, or worming paste or the multitude of other medications that carry that warning.

I've also seen online that some places offer low-cost gelding clinics, do you think that low-cost euthanasia clinics would help reduce the over-population of horses that the US has at the moment?

And if slaughter is a quick and easy way to get rid of the horse you've decided you don't want anymore (sort of comes back to the responsibility lectures your parents gave you as a kid hey?) why not get a friend around who knows their way around a gun and get THEM to humanely slaughter it on your property? Or is slaughter the "easy way out" where you don't actually have to deal with the fact that your horse is dead and you get to pocket enough for a carton on two on the way home?


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Correct me if I am wrong but there are only two slaugher yards in all of Australia that are approved to export the meat for human consumption. The rest, known as 'knackerys', are designated for pet food only. The standards are quite strict and I am unaware of any recent scandals indicating otherwise.

Secondly, the vast majority of horses in Australia that are slaughtered are ex racehorses. The racing industry has a lot to answer for in terms of poor treatment of thoroughbreds, especially once their racing career is over. The horses are worked far too hard from the age of two leading to breakdowns and other physical complications that many horse buyers are not prepared to take responsibility for once the horse leaves the track.

I suspect the slaughter business is NOT deriving most of its support from individual horse owners who want an "easy way out".


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Low-cost euthanasia may help, I think... a little, but possibly not enough.

As for dewormer, I haven't been able to find any harmful side-affect stories about it.

But, what I have read a few people bring up a good point: we ingest poison with our food everyday. MSG, food coloring, food texturisers... pesticides. Things that aren't for 'living beings' consumption in the first place, so those who do eat horse meat probably aren't all that worried. Plus, the majority of horse meat goes into dog food and from what I gather there are stricter guidelines for slaughterhouses intending to sell meat for human consumption.

Unless the horse has been on it for most of its life though, the amount in the meat I don't think would be that much after its finished passing through the system. Depends on when it was given and all that good stuff.

I don't typically give my horses vaccinations, not because I'm intending to consume them (which I am), but because they've never given me reason to believe they've actually needed it. Both of them have hardy immune systems.

And I will be taking the point of a gun to my own horses head when their time comes.

But, if I were going to send a horse purposely away to slaughter for human consumption I would make sure not to give it medications or whatnot before sending it off. Mind, I'm a responsible person and care way too much about other people to not.


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

Sarahver, you are correct about the two "meatworks" that can slaughter horses for human consumption (one which is about 10 minutes from my house), but having visited the sales yards myself and seen photos from a friend of mine who often goes - a lot of the horses ARE there from private owners, for example, at the last sales about an hour away from me about 15 groups of mares with their foals that went through (stock horses as best I could tell), several horses with "swamp cancer" on their feet and a whole lot of underfed mixed breed horses. I can link you to the album if you are at all interested in seeing what runs through in Australia at a normal sale

And sorry if there was any confusion, but as the topic is about American slaughterhouses I've been trying not to base my responses on what goes in Australia since they are two seperate issues (sorry if I wasn't clear enough)

Jhinnua, thanks for your answers - it may be a little different in Australia but I believe we are required to have our horses up to date for Tetanus and Strangles (much like your coggins I'd suspect) and a lot of our horses have been immunised against Equine Influenza.

I've also read somewhere that apparently the EU is getting tougher on what meat they will import for human consumption since their horses are raised specifically for meat much in the same way cattle are raised here, so I'm wondering if they decide to no longer accept "tainted" meat (so to speak) would that change your views at all due to some loss of demand? I ask this because I know in Australia several of the knackers and meat buyers do resell horses they purchase due to lack of demand equaling low per kilo meat prices.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Lifeofriley - That IS a good point, as I do know plenty of people who are pro-slaughter to the point where they have no issue sending their own stock to slaughter. They would be outraged at the very idea of putting a ten cent bullet into the horse and pay for the costs of burying it when they can be making a few hundred bucks on the carcass.

However, in my opinion, that is their perogative. Unless someone is a vegetarian, I will never understand how they can scream about ending horse slaughter and yet think it's fine to kill cows and pigs and chickens. Do they actually believe that cows somehow feel less, think less? These people need to have a pet cow and understand they reality of how incrediably intelligent and affectionate a cow can be. They make fantastic pets.

I think that's what bothers me the absolute most. I would LOVE to see better conditions for horses - but I want better conditions for ALL animals. I will never in my life condone the slaughter of one animal while condemning the next. People who believe that one animal somehow deserves to die more then another simply based on their own personal definition of whether that animal as a pet or livestock is the height of hypocricy.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

-cough- Yeeeah, no one's brought it to my attention what I do or don't need... just what they recommend I do, so... I only really deworm my horses... <_<;; But like I eluded to before, they're probably the healthiest horses I know. The only problem I've had was when my gelding did something to his leg in the pasture and was lame for a couple days.

I will be getting their shots and stuff done this year though, because the school I'm going to requires it. Which I totally understand why. X]


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

Macabre, that's a really good point. Nothing irks me more than other anti-horse-slaughter people who cry foul about that but also use the argument "but cows/pigs/whatever aren't pets", with a Big Mac or something similar in the other hand

I'm not a vegetarian myself, but our beef/lamb/pork is purchased from our butcher who purchases from another local guy who slaughters himself (I've watched a cow be slaughtered and butchered, I don't have what you could call a squeamish stomach haha) and our eggs come from our chickens that live down the back.

I do make a concerted effort to make sure all my meat is humanely treated, because to me I don't care if it's Old Bessie your mare you've had your whole life or just the steer down the road who is off to the meatworks tomorrow - an animal is an animal and they all deserve the same treatment


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Lifeofriley said:


> NOT FOR ANIMALS INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION? Are you comfortable sending a horse for human consumption that knowingly isn't fit for it?


2 words. Dog food.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Good for you! I have zero problems with people who choose to not eat meat, or to ensure their meat comes from a humane source. Hell, I'm kind of ashamed to admit I've lapsed into buying supermarket meat because it's convenient.  Growing up, my grandpa had a hobby farm and all our meat was hand raised and butchered on the farm - a nice life of free grazing, lots of love and then a bullet to the brain when butchering day came. I've always been up close and personal with the process, and I AM against a lot of factory farming. As soon as I have my own land, I fully intend to be raising my own animals on GRASS - the difference between hand raised stock and factory farm meat is just vile. You can't eat a store bought pork chop after being raised on wild boar your whole life!

To me, that is a logical and rational anti-slaughter argument - I do not want animals to die so I can eat, or I need my animals to be killed humanely for me to eat it. Those are the sides of the anti-slaughter fence I can understand and respect. But it boils down to a SLAUGHTER argument, not a HORSE SLAUGHTER argument. I think people tend to forget that!


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> As soon as I have my own land, I fully intend to be raising my own animals on GRASS - the difference between hand raised stock and factory farm meat is just vile.




We should totally trade our organic livestock when we get our own places...

That being said:

I, personally, can rarely eat meat from a store. I was raised on meat from a store, and hated it. I got sick almost every time I ate steak... (didn't stop me though) and then my parents bought a quarter of a cow and MAN! Was it ever delicious. Didn't get sick either.


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## Honeysuga (Sep 1, 2009)

ponyboy said:


> I realize now that I've made a mistake in this thread... I tend to think of the term "backyard breeder" to mean any bad breeder like it does in the dog world. In fact the majority of horses sent to slaughter come from racing and rodeo. .


*No*, you are 100% wrong.* Please do some research for petes sake! *Rodeo? Are you serious? Most rodeo horses are not bred but repurposed for rodeo until you get up to the higher levels of course. Racing factory breeding is a problem, yes, but still pales in comparison to a BYB which is the horse world term for someone who is unqualified to breed for whatever reason. That is not to be confused with the financially competent, intelligent, focused, responsible owner that has a great lined or very talented horse that choose to breed for a specific purpose and train and keep.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Jhinnua said:


> We should totally trade our organic livestock when we get our own places...
> 
> That being said:
> 
> ...


Oh man, it's so hard for me to eat store bought. My entire life, my grandpa always raised cows, chickens, domestic pigs and wild boars, plus at times he'd have geese and goats. He was the man people called insane because he actually went INTO the pen with his wild boars - he talked to them and sung to them and treated every animal he had like his child. In all my years, I only remember twice him being in danger - once getting accidentally between a sow and her piglets (his dog saved him) and then once when a cow got pink eye and came after him in fright.

I think it just teaches you a whole new attitude on death when you can love these animals and play with these animals and then eat these animals. It was always a little sad saying goodbye, and to some it probably seems morbid, but it's the most natural progression of life. There's a satisfaction you can take knowing the food on your plate came from your love and nurture. 

His had 80 acres and all his animals were free range. The taste alone is enough to make me hate store bought meat, but I swear some of that taste was just the contentment of it all, knowing these animals were so cared for and respected. 

I swear to return to that way of life someday.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Lifeofriley said:


> I can link you to the album if you are at all interested in seeing what runs through in Australia at a normal sale


No need. I am Australian, only lived in Texas since the start of the year. I have been to many auctions and am aware of what you are talking about, they are depressing places.

I wish you could see the number of neglected horses here, it is nothing like back home. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, there are far too many horses and not enough good homes. Either way the only ones that suffer are the horses and that is very sad.


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## Lifeofriley (May 24, 2009)

Definitely Macabre - it boils down to humane slaughter for all animals not just horses. Although I can understand some people who are against the slaughter of horses simply because to them they are a pet like a dog or a cat, my view is that EVERYTHING should have a humane end.

I will definitely agree with the difference in supermarket meat and fresh meat - probably the only thing we buy from the supermarket is chicken, but I always try to get the free-range chickens, because I've seen battery hens and it disgusted me.

Delete - I understand that a lot of meat does go as pet food, but I guess I have doubts as to the honesty of the meat buyers when it comes to what is used for human consumption and what is used for pet food. I wouldn't have an issue with the whole medication deal if like in Australia, only certain places can slaughter for human consumption and the rest just for pet food (although admittedly I'm not too keen on my dog eating medicated meat). I posed the question not sure whether the slaughterhouses in the US are kept seperately the way they do in Australia.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Just a quick question for you all? Is it legal to bury horses (or other 'pets') in your state. Its all very shaky business in Pennsylvania which can lead to fines AND having to dig up your horse. I do think that they low cost euthinasia would be a great program if they either allowed you to bury on your own property or also offered low cost rendering. On average it costs about 400 to have a horse put down here. Granted, we can get away with it...but if you have nosey neighbors, you could be in for a heap of trouble. As far as the bullet theory goes, we have a kind old farmer who handles the bullets. He wont let anyone come with him...he hand grazes them for a while and tells them stories (even the crazy ones) about how they are going to a place that they can run free without us pesky people around. I am not squeemish but up there on the list of things that I am not...a shootist is very near the top. I would be so afraid I would really screw it up! Our last horse to be put down on the farm was a total menace to society. The true definition of what BYBs crank out these days. Very pretty in color...everything else about him was ugly. Terrible feet, teeth and skin. Horribly aggressive towards other horses and in the end, people. We came to find out that he had end stage lymes disease (he was a rescue that was covered in ticks...*sigh*) and thats what caused his psychosis. I dont know what we would have done if we didn't have our farmer friend. I think the vet may have struggled to put him down (physically)


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

In the course of these slaughter threads there is generally a few posts that are so misguided as to be silly but this thread takes the cake. I can't decide where to start so I think I'm just going to unsubscibe and leave some of you to drown in your own ignorance. Anybody that has not made up thier mind should take most of what is said in this thread with a huge grain of salt. I have seen many posts with terribly incorrect information. Those of you that have made up your minds on whatever side make sure that you are sure of your information before you post it as fact. Don't just puke up trash and try to pass it off as a treat.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Oh man, it's so hard for me to eat store bought. My entire life, my grandpa always raised cows, chickens, domestic pigs and wild boars, plus at times he'd have geese and goats. He was the man people called insane because he actually went INTO the pen with his wild boars - he talked to them and sung to them and treated every animal he had like his child. In all my years, I only remember twice him being in danger - once getting accidentally between a sow and her piglets (his dog saved him) and then once when a cow got pink eye and came after him in fright.
> 
> I think it just teaches you a whole new attitude on death when you can love these animals and play with these animals and then eat these animals. It was always a little sad saying goodbye, and to some it probably seems morbid, but it's the most natural progression of life. There's a satisfaction you can take knowing the food on your plate came from your love and nurture.
> 
> ...


My ambition in life has been to be that way, even though I never knew anyone like that. My friends already think I'm crazy, so walking into a pen of wild boar and snuggling them is probably not going to surprise any of them. lol.

I constantly talk to my animals. I think half the time I use more politeness toward them then when I talk to people.  "Please move over. Thank you." "Get your head down. Thank you." "Red, don't do that please. Thanks." lol.

Ugh, I can't wait to have my own, self-sufficient (as possible), farm one day!

As far as the taste and stuff goes, there's not taste to store-bought. That's for certain. I dunno what it was for me that made me so sick from the store bought stuff, maybe the chemicals or something, but yeah. lol. Free-range and stuff is waaay better. My mom is constantly looking for farm-fresh eggs to buy, and we buy lamb and now cow. Apparently my parents used to buy pig too.


Corino: Uhm... There are authorized pick-up services for dead horses and they bring them to a specialized site and dump the bodies in my home province. I know that a guest ranch I went to had a horse graveyard, but I'm not sure if it was legal or not. It was on a native reserve though, so that might have had something to do with why they were allowed. It depends on bylaws too, far as I can guess.

Also, that old man sounds awesome. D=


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

we have a rendering plant pretty close but they charge around 300 a horse. For a rescue that funds on donations alone...its a bit much. We are now trying 'composting' our retired friends as it is a new, acceptable method in PA but who knows for how long. Our county is very regulated and as a rescue, they keep tabs on what goes on. I was just curious if we were the only ones not allowed to bury our dead horses. 

Oh and his name is Andy and he totally rocks. He donates lots of time to our little operation and is a real friend to our horses.


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Yeah, that sounds about the same as when my boss had to put a colicing horse down and have it removed... I think. It was a long while ago.

Haha. That's so neat. X]


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> His had 80 acres and all his animals were free range. The taste alone is enough to make me hate store bought meat, but I swear some of that taste was just the contentment of it all, knowing these animals were so cared for and respected.
> 
> I swear to return to that way of life someday.


This is OT, but that reminds me of when I went on the Special K diet (that stuff is delicious, so it was no hardship on my part) for three weeks and drank largely water, whereas before I was kind of an all-soda drinker. I accidentally ordered a coke when I went out to lunch....it tasted DISGUSTING. That weekend, I was making myself a sandwich from pre-packaged roast beef, and I could smell the salt and additives from across the kitchen. It was an eye opener for sure!


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## Jhinnua (May 26, 2010)

Found some interesting articles:

A Study of Equine Slaughter/ Abuse Patterns Following Closure of Horse Slaughter Plants in US | Animal Law Coalition
Equine - extension.usu.edu <- scroll to the bottom where "The State of the Horse Industry Since the Closing of the Horse Harvesting Facilities" is located and click it.
End of horse slaughter brings mixed reactions
Second Chance Ranch

I tried to find unbiased articles to both sides, but also that might answer unanswered questions and such.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

farley said:


> not to mention U.S. slaughter houses where very humane the process was exactly the same used to slaughter hundreds of cattle a day, this method was approved by American Veterinary Medial Association and American Association of Equine Practitioners.


Horses are not cattle. They are generally taller and have longer, more mobile necks. This makes it easy for them to avoid the bolt gun. In the report they did last year, CBC stated that it takes more tries to get a horse down than a cow. In addition, horses crammed into close quarters kick each other whereas cattle don't. 

Now I'm afraid I'm going to have to drop out of this thread... I'm moving on Sunday and just got a temporary job. I was counting on having more time to pack! If some of you want to believe that this means you've "won" the debate that's fine by me.

I will reiterate one more time though (because while I don't mind "losing" I don't like being misquoted) - I'm NOT saying that sending horses to slaughter is profitable in and of itself. I'm saying that it frees up space in the pasture significantly faster than selling unwanted horses individually. If sending horses to slaughter didn't benefit equine businesspeople in some way they wouldn't do it. That is all.


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## xdrybonesxvalleyx (Jan 17, 2010)

To put this in two words:

Horse economy.


Since the slaughters went down it's been like HECK.


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## jeannie54 (Jun 6, 2010)

Okay, quick deaths and I am simply amazed that people think using the captive bolt is quick...and HUMANE?The penetrating captive bolt followed by immediate exsanguination(bleeding out)has been the preferred method of acheiving insensibility of equines in American Slaughterhouses since the early 1980's...The mode of action of penetrating captive bolt gun is CONCUSSION and TRAUMA to the brain. Do you folks that own horses and Be Honest, beleive that your horse can sence trouble? Ya know that special gift they have as humans do , that something is wrong and your feel fear....cont..this requires that it be held FIRMLY against the surface of the HORSES HEAD over the inteneded site...Now I can go on and on as to the suffering , FEAR, TORTURE THAT THESE horseS ENDURE....AQHA, someone referred that this is a great way to get rid of those unwanted horses....OVERBREEDING IS ONE OF THE biggest reasons there are soooo many unwanted horses...along with race horses...OKay, the lets eat a horse issue, tainted with meds, bute and so on...did you read the label on them....not meant for humans..I really hope to GOD you all open your hearts and start getting the facts. Also, if I hear another person say it is the sick and starving horses that are sent to slaughter, think again, well take a look at the rescues...Pregnant Mares, filly's/colt/s/Many quarter horses and Racehorses and the racehorses have the tatoo, what is left after being sliced with a box cutter....Dear Lord, I am so sorry for what people do to the animals you created for us...Look the word slaughter up in the dictionary, I never needed to...Look up the word HUMANE, I have never had to..Look up the word COMPASSION AND LOVE, again I never had to..Look up the word EUTHANIZATION, God Help The Horses and God please let people start acting Humanely and open their heart and fill their brains with knowledge, AMEN
PS I did not even touch the gory parts, I leave that up to you..When you know now, if you do, that something is wrong and you turn a deaf ear and a blind eye, you are also committing the sad and inhumane treatment of HORSES...


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## jeannie54 (Jun 6, 2010)

by the way, I sleep very guilt free at night..


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

jeannie54 said:


> Okay, quick deaths and I am simply amazed that people think using the captive bolt is quick...and HUMANE?The penetrating captive bolt followed by immediate exsanguination(bleeding out)has been the preferred method of acheiving insensibility of equines in American Slaughterhouses since the early 1980's...The mode of action of penetrating captive bolt gun is CONCUSSION and TRAUMA to the brain. Do you folks that own horses and Be Honest, beleive that your horse can sence trouble? Ya know that special gift they have as humans do , that something is wrong and your feel fear....cont..this requires that it be held FIRMLY against the surface of the HORSES HEAD over the inteneded site...Now I can go on and on as to the suffering , FEAR, TORTURE THAT THESE horseS ENDURE....AQHA, someone referred that this is a great way to get rid of those unwanted horses....OVERBREEDING IS ONE OF THE biggest reasons there are soooo many unwanted horses...along with race horses...OKay, the lets eat a horse issue, tainted with meds, bute and so on...did you read the label on them....not meant for humans..I really hope to GOD you all open your hearts and start getting the facts. Also, if I hear another person say it is the sick and starving horses that are sent to slaughter, think again, well take a look at the rescues...Pregnant Mares, filly's/colt/s/Many quarter horses and Racehorses and the racehorses have the tatoo, what is left after being sliced with a box cutter....Dear Lord, I am so sorry for what people do to the animals you created for us...Look the word slaughter up in the dictionary, I never needed to...Look up the word HUMANE, I have never had to..Look up the word COMPASSION AND LOVE, again I never had to..Look up the word EUTHANIZATION, God Help The Horses and God please let people start acting Humanely and open their heart and fill their brains with knowledge, AMEN
> PS I did not even touch the gory parts, I leave that up to you..When you know now, if you do, that something is wrong and you turn a deaf ear and a blind eye, you are also committing the sad and inhumane treatment of HORSES...


This will be my last post on this subject as, dont excuse the pun, im tired of beating a dead horse, slaughtered or otherwise. 

Captive bolt is horrible, its scary to the horses and not 100% effective on the first time. If they want the meat, it will be 100% effective eventually. Sorry that this bothers you...

I dont eat horse meat so I dont have to worry about the meds that they get. Part B of that is if there were really a big problem with horses being medicated and then eaten...dont you think something would have showed up by now? An epidemic overseas of sick people who ate horsemeat? I haven't heard a peep. 

Look at the rescues eh? This is going to sound cruel and im sure i will get punished for it but really girl...do you think that we, as a rescue, are going to take home the sick and injured when there are others there who have a chance? That is why the pregnant mares, OTTBs AQHA's and all the other horses that 'arent too bad' come home with us. We cannot save them all...we have to leave the bad ones and save the ones with a chance. We are not going to pull a horse with a busted leg and bad conformation out of the line and send a registered QH who just needs groceries. Does the busted leg horse deserve to live...he sure does! The QH deserves to live too. We lose tons of money on rescuing horses...we would lose tons of THOUSANDS of money if we took the sick and injured instead of just the starved and untrained. 

As far as the humane, slaughter compasion BS comes into play, i am not turning a deaf ear or a blind eye to anything. I see the state of the horse now that slaughter has gone away and I wish they would change it back. Your ignorance is only making things worse. You want to rant and campaign for horses...find a way to make it better. Slaughter will go on...wheter it be at a factory with trained professionals who know the ins and outs of slaughter or in the back woods with a gun. Unneeded horses are clogging the way. Get a bandaid for your bleeding heart and open your eyes. 

Consider me unsubscribed.


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## Simone Netherlands (Jun 6, 2010)

*The bloody truth*

It is of utmost importance that you educate yourself on this issue of humanity. Please read this article. 

Respect4Horses.com | Learn about the abuse and slaughter of our American horses.

The horse slaughter industry is nothing but a greed motivated fraudulent business that is sucking the healthy fat horses out of society and leaving the unwanted. It is driven by the demand for horse meat in Japan and Europe. If you were a kill buyer, would you want skinny old horses, or would you want nice big horses for which you could get a higher price per pound at the slaughter house? Over 92% (according to USDA numbers) of horses slaughtered are healthy and in the prime of their lives, between the age of 3 and 10. 

While we are certainly going through harsh economic times, and nobody denies that we have an overpopulation problem, when you stop to consider the facts more realistically, it becomes clear that horse slaughter is the anti-solution to the problem. The truth is that the abandoned and starving horses are not the ones that end up in the slaughter plants at all, for the simple fact that their owners chose to abandon them rather than send them to slaughter

In addition to the obvious motives of the slaughter industry, the option of horse slaughter in itself in fact has created, is creating and will continue to create an overpopulation problem, by enabling over breeding (lottery breeding) and encouraging a quick turn around and dumping of horses. 

We gain nothing by it. Every argument for preserving the barbaric practice of horse slaughter, is greed motivated, un-factual and clearly deceptive. Horse slaughter is unacceptable and beyond un-necessary. It is time to find solutions without compromising our humanity. 

Certain questions need to be asked. Should we stop doling out millions of dollars in breeding incentives each year? Should we convert those breeding incentives into euthanasia funds?
The cost of euthenizing a horse humanely is equivalent to the cost of taking care of a horse. Therefore, this costs is immediately recuperated the next month after the horse is gone. 
Is this really too much to ask for a creature who gives us his all every single day of his life? a creature on whose back we built this country?


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## jeannie54 (Jun 6, 2010)

http://www.respect4horses.com/article.html


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## jeannie54 (Jun 6, 2010)

corinowalk said:


> This will be my last post on this subject as, dont excuse the pun, im tired of beating a dead horse, slaughtered or otherwise.
> 
> Captive bolt is horrible, its scary to the horses and not 100% effective on the first time. If they want the meat, it will be 100% effective eventually. Sorry that this bothers you...
> 
> ...


Well it is to bad you decided to consider yourself unsubscribed...You really did not read what I wrote, especially about the horses that go to slaughter...wow, cotton in those ears...and dear, Europe has been pulling horse meat off their shelves becuase of NOW finding out that there is MEDS in the HOrses MEAT and, dear they are upset about slaughter and how American Horses are being treated, dear.So I believe you should start reading and stop being such a un know it all....uinscribe all you want, but please make yourself knowlegeable, nicely...for the horses..dear


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