# Dancing Horse Cruelty or Not!?



## BuckWheat

Hello to everyone, i'm quite new to the forum as you might see so...


Here's a video that explains how many dancing horses are trained to "dance" or do a bad piaffe.
I've worked on it for quite a bit, taking videos, and investigating with trainers, going to competitions and so on.
This type of riding style or discipline is fairly new, it's been based on a drug cartel culture, meaning that it started back with drug dealers. It hardly is more than 3 decades old, its not a form of tradition and it has been rapidly growing and spreading all over the country. There’s even a dancing horse association.
The riders are by no means Charros, even if in competitions they use the traditional Charro suit and saddle, it’s a common mistake made by many.
The sole purpose of this video is to educate, and not to bash a culture. You can find these methods being employed by trainers in other countries too. It's to create awareness and teach people that there's better ways to train their horses to do such tricks.
The use of pillars is correct, only when used by a professional, if used wrong, they can be rather cruel.
It was translated from Spanish to English, so there might be some spelling errors, or words used incorrectly. I tried my best.
Many of the people who send their horses to be trained to dance are not aware of what trainers do to their horses. There are many many people who are against these cruel methods, but so far i have not met anyone who has ever stood up for the horses.
More videos coming up explaining the methods used in more detail, also including the pro’s and con’s. I could make videos and videos showing all the things trainers do to their horses, and explaining why they are wrong, how harmful they can be and the correct way of doing so, but everything one step at a time for now.


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## equiniphile

Bad training is bad training, in any discipline. But the piaffe, when trained correctly, is completely natural for the horse.


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## BuckWheat

yes, the piaffe is a movement that horses perform out on liberty. Sadly here in mexico many horse trainers do not understand what a piaffe really is.


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## equiniphile

Yeah, I've heard Mexicans have...."different" ways of training a lot of times. Certainly not all, but a lot of them.


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## Spastic_Dove

I think it's ugly and it doesnt even make me think of Piaffe when I see it. However there was a thread about dancing horses here awhile ago and some of them looked far more relaxed. I believe they were from the middle east? Not sure. Either way I'm not a fan.


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## Lunarflowermaiden

Spastic_Dove said:


> I think it's ugly and it doesnt even make me think of Piaffe when I see it. However there was a thread about dancing horses here awhile ago and some of them looked far more relaxed. I believe they were from the middle east? Not sure. Either way I'm not a fan.


Yeah they were probably Marwari horses from either India or Pakistan. And some of it is less ugly than this.

I have never seen videos of the Marwari horses being trained to dance before even a year old (I'll post it if I find the link, but there is some Mexican horse dancing video with a 7-8 month old foal, with a 5-6 year old kid on it, being ground driven and doing the 'dancing' thing).


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## Lunarflowermaiden

Okay. I took too long in editing my last post it wouldn't go through. But I found the videos.





 Assuming the October date in the video is his birthdate, and going by the date it was uploaded. This poor baby can't be anymore than 9 months old when this was filmed.





 (Same poor baby, different kid on him).


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## BuckWheat

Lunarflowermaiden said:


> Yeah they were probably Marwari horses from either India or Pakistan. *And some of it is less ugly than this*.
> 
> I have never seen videos of the Marwari horses being trained to dance before even a year old (I'll post it if I find the link, but there is some Mexican horse dancing video with a 7-8 month old foal, with a 5-6 year old kid on it, being ground driven and doing the 'dancing' thing).


 

Pakistan dancing horses are trained in very very cruel ways aswell. This is a video of a dancing horse competition. Note: guys that are following the horses from behind with some sort of long ropes, just preparing to hit the horses in case they ever stop dancing.

Note the hollow backs, the undeveloped neck and back mucles, the awkward leg movements, the horses body language, the guy always tugging at thier mouths.

They have definetly gone through some sort of beathing to get to move in such an exagerated and unatural way.


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## AnnaLover

These videos make me cringe.. especially the poor baby! He's _*way*_ too young to be ridden.. and on top of that being beaten to 'dance'... I wonder what goes through these peoples' heads?! The stress on their joints is painful just watching... and seeing them being beaten and scared to death... makes me want to do something about it.

ETA:

The worst part is... they are really nice looking horses with lots of potential.. going to waste.
And it looks like they're all well taken care of. Interesting..


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## Lunarflowermaiden

BuckWheat said:


> Pakistan dancing horses are trained in very very cruel ways aswell. This is a video of a dancing horse competition. Note: guys that are following the horses from behind with some sort of long ropes, just preparing to hit the horses in case they ever stop dancing.
> 
> Note the hollow backs, the undeveloped neck and back mucles, the awkward leg movements, the horses body language, the guy always tugging at thier mouths.


Yeah I know. I just meant less ugly in that I have never seen a nine month old foal doing it (which is what the rest of my post was about). Otherwise it is on about the same level as the Mexican horse dancing.


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## Spastic_Dove

You know, honestly, I'd prefer this compared to some of the stuff I see from other lesser-developed countries. Obviously, I don't like it. I think it's bad training and poor horsemanship. But the horses all look like they are being fed and looked after which is something you don't see in a lot of horses in those parts. 

The foals are just kind of insane though. 

The horse I'm thinking of wasn't a Marwari... It was a big grey thing but I can't seem to find the video.  ****.


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## BuckWheat

Lunarflowermaiden said:


> Yeah I know. I just meant less ugly in that I have never seen a nine month old foal doing it (which is what the rest of my post was about). Otherwise it is on about the same level as the Mexican horse dancing.


 
Agree to that! i just can't believe that people still use barbaric methods to train animals, methods that primitive people used to use waaaay back then.

we are at 2010, and people still do this.


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## RedTree

its just like with dancing bears, uneducation people tourise probably think aww look at them they don't oen there eyes and see what is really happening
it is a shame really we are in the 21st century and yet peolpe still don't treat the animals right.


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## Shalani

The "boots " On some of the horses legs are they decorative or torture ?
I wonder how many learner horses flip over whilst tied to those poles....
That foal was way too young poor baby


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## Shalani

Sorry to double post ...

The movement those horses do reminds me of when a horse is cornered by the alpha horse and has a little panic attack trying to get away . For a few seconds they do a similar "dance" a panic dance.


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## hrsrdr

Shalani said:


> Sorry to double post ...
> 
> The movement those horses do reminds me of when a horse is cornered by the alpha horse and has a little panic attack trying to get away . For a few seconds they do a similar "dance" a panic dance.


 
That is such a good point! Thank you so much everybody for posting those...if awareness of this kind of torture can go out, this field will start to crash as the non-horsey people who are watching it go, "Wait, that ISN'T normal? But it's so pretty and their necks are so beautiful." If people are just told some simple things about natural horse behavior and proper training this kind of thing can pitfall so fast! These people are playing on the ignorance of non-horse people to make money. It makes me want to cry...the saddest part is that the horses haven't kicked all their handlers to death by now and actually tolerate this. They are very obvious about what they think of it, but they ACTUALLY TOLERATE IT! That's their most wonderful strength and their most deadly weakness, that they are so willing.


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## kevinshorses

These horses are in third world countries. Sorry to the members that might be from or live in Mexico but that is for the most part a primitive third world country and nobody should argue that Pakistan is a third world country. People are treated no better in these countries than the animals are. They are primitive in thier outlook on life in general.


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