# Curious



## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I’m not a color genetic knowledgeable person by any means, but so many on here are! I’ve been calling this mare a grulla, but I’m curious as to what you would say she is. She is a bit lighter fully shedded out.


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

Mealy brown/dark bay? Guessing. 

I wouldn't say grulla though.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank you @Caledonian! I’ve gone so back and forth. She has a lot of gold to her in the summer. Upside down she is white. Lol


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## Caledonian (Nov 27, 2016)

Knave said:


> Thank you @Caledonian! I’ve gone so back and forth. She has a lot of gold to her in the summer. Upside down she is white. Lol


I'm guessing knave and our colour lables are very different over here, so I always hesitate to say anything about colours. Plus, they're not my strong suit!

She doesn't have the mealy nose, or around the eyes, but we had a similar colour in the yard for a time and he was described as mealy brown. 

We've a huge number of grulla/o (mouse) thanks to our natives though, and I wouldn't say that she's one.

Upside down 😆


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## Linoone (11 mo ago)

I'd call her a Dark Bay/Brown, expressing Sabino. (Which means she's also a pinto!)


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

From your first picture I saw a dark bay with dapples then the other pictures I see like a sooty Buckskin, then I see a Sabino, So I am of no help, lol. But I think shes a pretty horse no matter the color.  But, I just dont see a grulla.


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## Palfrey (May 29, 2020)

I would say bay sabino. Very nice looking.


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## SmokeyC (Nov 4, 2021)

She's stunning! I want to say she's a bay or sooty buckskin. A grulla has to have a dorsal stripe I believe.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Looks sooty buckskin.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Thank all of you so much! I think her color is interesting at least. I had a big fear she would grey out, but I haven’t seen that. She is only two, so I guess she still could, but I sure hope not, just because I like her coloring.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I looked up grulla horses. Yes, I definitely was wrong there! Lol. I see the sooty buckskin when I looked that up, and definitely she looks just brown in winter. I think I thought a grulla was a sooty buckskin. I guess I’ve never seen one!


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

The 1st and 2nd picture says to me a sooty buckskin(maybe a dark bay with dapples?) and the 3rd picture with how the markings/pattern is on her back legs look like a sabino's pattern and then the pattern on her heart girth's underside looks sabino too. Oh well it was fun trying to decide on color, lol..


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I'd think the ticking is from sabino. Could be grey though. It starts around the face and flanks first. If it continues its also grey added to the mix. If sabino then it'll remain as is.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@QtrBel it isn’t any more than last year, and I don’t see any of it on her face at all, so I would assume not grey then correct?


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Correct. It would be roaning or ticking from sabino.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Knave said:


> I think I thought a grulla was a sooty buckskin. I guess I’ve never seen one!


You’ve seen this one 








As you know, she goes fully golden most of the year, except in the late spring when she is nearly black. This is probably about as black as she gets, but still has that golden around her muzzle. It will be interesting to see if Queen lightens up this spring!

Queen’s little white patches under her belly are so distinctive! Does she keep them all year?


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

So is she a grulla and not a sooty buckskin @egrogan? I’m getting confused again. I figure Queen is the same color as Fizz.

They get more distinctive in summer, and spotty, but I think they just blend in more in winter when she’s got so much long hair. She is like a stuffed animal in wintertime. You can see all the cool spots come summer. She has spots under her chin and her whole belly, like an upside down appy! Lol


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Ah, I misunderstood your comment, I thought you were saying you’ve never seen a sooty buckskin. Fizz is sooty buckskin- perlino sire and dark brown dam.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Fizz is sooty buckskin. I'm going with Queen is sooty also with sabino.

These two horses are grulla. They have grayish tones. You can't see in the photos but they also have dun factors, dorsal stripes and zebra barring on the legs, dark line shading over the shoulders. If you look closely you can see the dun factors on this one's back legs.









In this one you can lightly see the dark lines over the withers.









In the summer they look lighter, and in the winter dark grayish.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Notice the faces on the above. Sooty will cover to varying degrees but the muzzle on a buckskin as well as the soft points tend to stay buckskin. Dun comes with a mask and the face on a black dun (grulla) remains dark at the muzzle.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Sooty Buckskin with splash or sabino. My sooty buckskin mare will lighten when out in the sun. Sun bleach. IF she has a cover or shade she stays under it most of the time. She gets the beige /tan dapples. Body color usually stays dark. My mare was also color tested with AQHA and is positive for the cream gene. She is the Dark colored horse in my pic.


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## Colt17 (Aug 7, 2017)

This is my Grullo at his 5 year birthday party.


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## gottaquarter (Jun 8, 2012)

My first horse was a grulla…..I think of them like a mouse gray that gets a little lighter in summer but doesn't have any white hair other than maybe socks? Darker face, black mane and a tail that had broomstick tones (? For lack of a better description) on the top….zebra stripes on the legs, along with the dorsal stripe down the back. They are beautiful…..I called my mare (smoky) topaz. I would love to have another one


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@Colt17 beautiful!!! @gottaquarter I understand the color now and I love it. I can see why you’d like another!


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## Colt17 (Aug 7, 2017)

Here is more info on Grullo:








What Is A Grulla Horse And What Do They Look Like? - AHF


A grulla horse is a member of the dun horse family that is also known as a blue dun, mouse dun, or gray dun. It is often distinguished by being mouse-colored.




amazinghorsefacts.com




Mine checks all the boxes, dorsal stripe, zebra stripes on legs (very faint) and all other properties. My Grullo had a black stallion and buckskin mare, with this combo you can get a Grullo (I think one may need to be Dun to get dorsal stripe)
Last pic is of same horse as about 1 month old foul. My 9 year old daughter saw him on craigs list and had to have him. I have to agree he was very cute...
Another pic


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

@Colt17 without a dun parent he can't be grulla. That would be black dun. You'd need to show pics of his back with stripe going into tail. He could be nd1 and if homozygous then they typically have strong primitives including dorsal stripe and fade pretty dramatically. They can come close to resembling their dun counterparts with the fade.


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## Colt17 (Aug 7, 2017)

QtrBel said:


> @Colt17 without a dun parent he can't be grulla. That would be black dun. You'd need to show pics of his back with stripe going into tail. He could be nd1 and if homozygous then they typically have strong primitives including dorsal stripe and fade pretty dramatically. They can come close to resembling their dun counterparts with the fade.


I think the mother was Dun, cannot remember if she had dorsal, maybe father had dorsal, yet he was black so maybe it was hidden. The dorsal stripe does run into the tail, I will take a better pic. He does have the primitive markings on legs, depending on lighting, they can be hard to see- I will take more pics.


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## gottaquarter (Jun 8, 2012)

“Last pic is of same horse as about 1 month old foul. My 9 year old daughter saw him on craigs list and had to have him. I have to agree he was very cute...”

now THAT is just too cute……what an absolutely adorable baby!!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Colt17 said:


> I think the mother was Dun, cannot remember if she had dorsal, maybe father had dorsal, yet he was black so maybe it was hidden. The dorsal stripe does run into the tail, I will take a better pic. He does have the primitive markings on legs, depending on lighting, they can be hard to see- I will take more pics.


Part of the dun package is a diluted coat color. That is how you get grulla. Dun plus black. Dun does not hide. Black does not cover it up. There are three possibilities where dun is located. Dun - primitives plus dilution of the body coat. Nd1 - primitives, no dilution of the body and a tendency for the coat to fade, can be affected by zygosity (two copies may have stronger markings and more fade). Nd2 is a clear coat with no primitive markings.

So even if your horse has a stripe with primitive markings that does not necessarily make him a dun. There can also be other factors affecting color of the body. If he is truly dun then his mother had to carry it if the father was black in color. She could have been a bay dun (bay plus dun) and not buckskin (bay plus cream) as many get this confused because both have a light body with dark points. Both have a light body but a dun has the dorsal stripe and a buckskin does not. She could have been a buckskin dun (bay plus dun and cream) which lightens the body even further and has all the primitives. A black horse with nd1 will have a stripe but you only see it once the coat fades. Both winter and summer coats come in black and then the body fades with exposure to sun and weather extremely quickly revealing the stripe and other primitives. A giveaway that a black horse has nd1 is very light hair inside the ears. A black can also have cream. Combine the two and it changes the tone of the coat as it fades.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

This shows a very crisp black stripe and would lead me to believe the mother was either a bay dun (bay plus dun) or dunskin (buckskin bay plus cream and dun).


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

Upside down Queen! You can see how far she’s shedded by how far the white spotting goes. She’s got a lot more shedding to do! Yes, she also has a bit of extra weight to lose. I am working on it, albeit unsuccessfully, but she may just be getting ready to grow.


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## Colt17 (Aug 7, 2017)

Here are some better pics took yesterday of dorsal stripe to and into tail and the zebra striping on the legs (front legs are more pronounced than rear. Also black trim on ears and black markings on neck. The coat is kind of iridescent, color change with sunlight angle and intensity. I have included some pics of parents, although you will only see rump of father and head of mother.


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## Colt17 (Aug 7, 2017)

This is an interesting article on Tarpan horse, especially the "Appearance" section:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpan


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

This is more of a Silver Grulla, had one that looked just about like this one, they are a beautiful color, have on now thats a mini and hes the darker Grulla. @Colt17 just beautiful


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

My Salty Pony said:


> This is more of a Silver Grulla, had one that looked just about like this one, they are a beautiful color, have on now thats a mini and hes the darker Grulla. @Colt17 just beautiful


I meant to Quote @Colt17


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## RFInukshuk (7 mo ago)

I believe what we are looking at is bay with possible minimal pangaré. There’s also a sabino like pattern present here with the facial white and high white legs.

I disagree with buckskin.


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