# Adopting Vs. Buying



## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

I work for a rescue and those are some extensive rules. We inspect the property, no barbwire, the potential adopter comes out 3 times to help ensure rider and horse are a good match. We require a signed contract. Breeding is grounds for us to take the horse back with no refund. If you can no longer own the horse for whatever reason the horse comes back to us no refund. Those are the only 2 grounds other than abuse or neglect that we would remove a horse from an adopter. We also offer free help/access to a trainer in the event you come across something you can't handle. We try to up the odds of them staying in a good home. If you move we ask that you let us know where and allow us to check out the new property.
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Id look for a new rescue with the goal of finding forever homes rather than having them re-homed every year... JMO
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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

There's a lot of that kind of thing out there with regard to rescues. There is certainly much worse things for fencing than high tensile that's for sure. IMO of course *shrugs* There's even a rescue fairly close to me that won't let you adopt if you aren't a Parelli follower and know "the games" and stuff.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I can understand where rescue agencies are coming from with all the rules. They get these horses out of deplorable conditions more often than not and they absolutely do not want these horses being put in that kind of situation again. 

I know someone who blatantly lied to a rescue to get a horse. She claimed to have more horse experience than she actually did (she had pretty much no horse experience). The rescue approved of our barn but stipulated that only the adopter, the BO and the trainer would work with the horse. She lied to me and my best friend to get our help saddling and riding the horse for the first time. When it finally came out that the horse was unbroke and had been abused, the lady went out and bought a four-year-old greenbroke mare. The BO didn't have an extra stall, so he divided the rescue horse's stall. Keep in mind that the rescue had a minimum stall size requirement, which her original stall was barely acceptable. The rescue horse started cribbing, dropping weight, the lady never cleaned her stall (the BO is very strict that if you aren't paying for him to clean your stall, he won't touch it), and never got the horse any farrier care and never groomed the horse or took care of its hooves (not that she knew how to do either). Incidentally, the rescue had to take back the horse.
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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes but I take daily care of my horse. And what if one day I love the mare I adopt so much I might want to breed her once one day. I'm not looking to run a breeding operation. But it should be my choice at some point. I would even be good with that two year period. But the randomly coming on to the farm especially if I'm not there is the part that I have a big problem with.
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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I would never "adopt." Seems to be an excuse for control freaks to make money off unfortunate horses.

There are plenty of good horses needing good homes.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

I had an unfortunate experience with a rescue horse this summer that left me, while thankful that there are rescues out there, never wanting to adopt a horse from an organization.
Of course the horses need adopters but seriously, I don't want to encourage the ridiculous one-up-manship-type politics that seem to plague the rescue game.


If you want to "rescue" (very noble, I commend you), I bet you could find a horse that needs an "upgrade" without any rescue-related strings.

I found my Lacey girl through a common friend and I suppose you could (depending on your interpretation of "rescue") say she was rescued in that there was already an appointment for for euthanization scheduled for not even a week after met her which would have happened if I hadn't met her and "clicked" with her (she's a "hot" mare that needs specific handling and she's "old' - not a great combo for selling). She also had some serious training issues and a bunch of mental issues that just needed correct handling to get through.
I don't like to think of her as a rescue since I really feel like she rescued me more than I rescued her. BUT, in terms of an upgrade, 5 more years of life, so far, is pretty good! :lol:

Anyway, bottom line, you don't need to use a rescue to rescue a horse.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Every animal I own comes from a rescue other than my horse, the no rehoming clause makes perfect sense with dogs and cats and I am happy to agree to that. 

I would never adopt a horse, never, unless the rules change. Horses change hands, it happens, it's normal. I'd prefer to keep my horse, but I can't promise I can commit to $500 a month boarding and shoeing costs. 


I wonder why rescues can't find enough good homes for horses, maybe they could make the clause - the horse ends up with them if care can't be provided. Is this rocket science, I think not. 

My opinion, I can go right to the auction myself. I can rescue the horse by outbidding the meat man. I don't deem this as a rescue, you were the highest bidder. So what is a rescue horse? I dunno. Once in the rescue the horse is safe, so adopting isn't rescuing either. 


Side note - what is high tensile wire?


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

MissColors said:


> Yes but I take daily care of my horse. And what if one day I love the mare I adopt so much I might want to breed her once one day. I'm not looking to run a breeding operation. But it should be my choice at some point. I would even be good with that two year period. But the randomly coming on to the farm especially if I'm not there is the part that I have a big problem with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Given the situation I'm sure we would make the exception. We have actually never taken a horse back either but it is in our contract to protect the horse.
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

boots said:


> I would never "adopt." Seems to be an excuse for control freaks to make money off unfortunate horses.
> 
> There are plenty of good horses needing good homes.


Just to clear things up... my rescue does not ask for more than $500 for an adoption fee. Many of our well broke rescues go to organizations that use them for lessons and therapy for FREE. We also offer FREE training during the entire time you own the horse. 

The sad part is that it takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch...

Not all rescues are an excuse for control freaks to make money and as a matter of fact we don't make money. We LOSE it and ALOT of it.
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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

MissColors said:


> Well on to the next one, physical inspection of your property before even trying out any horse on our property. random check ups and only if after two years you have the horse and things look ok... we'll take it to the board and if you are declined then no refund for your provided care and the horse comes back. Oh and $100 non refundable application fee. No moving allowed with in 5 years after adopting.


This is the main reason why I don't adopt animals. To me that's not full ownership, that's paying money to be a foster home.

That being said I really sympathize with the position legitimate rescues are in. The feeling of rehoming a horse and discovering that you put them in a horrible home is absolutely sickening, and one I've experienced personally - You just never know with people, and the only way to really know that an animal is going to be well cared for is to either do it yourself or practically babysit the person doing it. 

Thing is, people don't like to be hovered over, and if a rescue really wants to rehome its animals so it can take on more that's just not practical. The "limited" ownership and invasion of privacy I see in most adoption contracts these days turns me right off. Like others have said, I'd be more inclined to cut out the middleman and find my own rescue through auctions or craigslist, etc. 

It's too bad, since whether a rescue drives away potential adopters with unrealistic standards and has to turn away rescues, or adopts to anybody with a chequebook and rehomes rescues into bad homes, the animal pays the price.


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## SnowCowgirl (Jun 3, 2010)

I actually bought an Aussie puppy rather than adopting an older dog because the rules were SO **** strict. Then later I was looking into adopting a small, older dog as a companion for my Aussie... but for $400!? I said to heck with that and was seriously considering buying a mixed breed pup, for less than the adoption fee of an older rescue dog. 

I think it's pretty sad when someone is turned off of a rescue dog, which is generally less adoptable and desirable than a puppy, because it's a heck of a lot easier to just go buy a puppy.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

AlexS said:


> Every animal I own comes from a rescue other than my horse, the no rehoming clause makes perfect sense with dogs and cats and I am happy to agree to that.
> 
> I would never adopt a horse, never, unless the rules change. Horses change hands, it happens, it's normal. I'd prefer to keep my horse, but I can't promise I can commit to $500 a month boarding and shoeing costs.
> 
> ...


We do allow rehoming to an approved home. Its easier for us if they find the next adopter. We work with everyone case by case. I do agree "what makes a rescue"? I think that will be an interesting debate and I also don't think their is a wrong answer. Its all on individual perception. Very valid points...
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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

It is sad... the animals always pays 

We have the contract just in case but don't enforce it unless it is really truly a bad situation and most of the time we are to busy to do home checks and be all excuse my language but Anal about things. Too **** many horses "need" saving...

We also weed out rescues by personality and trainability. Sounds bad but if we can't train them, they don't find homes and take up space.

Rescuing isnt black and white and is very controversial...
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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I would never take a horse that came with any strings attached whatsoever. I think boots summed it up pretty well. COntrol freaks and busy bodies. No thanks. Whats even better is the lies and hypocrisy some of these places do, 
Verbally SAY one thing is ok, yet written contract says another. These places cry for help yet want to put way to many strings attached for me. Sell me the horse, dont sell me. Once I take final possesion my dealings with you are over.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Wallaby said:


> I had an unfortunate experience with a rescue horse this summer that left me, while thankful that there are rescues out there, never wanting to adopt a horse from an organization.
> Of course the horses need adopters but seriously, I don't want to encourage the ridiculous one-up-manship-type politics that seem to plague the rescue game.
> 
> 
> ...


That is an awesome term Wallaby!.....upgrade. That was my situation too. My percheron was going to be euthanized and the vet team had to get her off the ground. My other girl I paid $400 and upgraded her life.

OP, I have not dealt with a rescue, but am thinking they are not all the same. However, out of the four horses I have owned, three of them were given to me for free and the last one I purchased for $400 when I was actually looking for a horse that time. All wonderful horses. There are plenty of horses out there being given away. I also found that once you are 'in' somewhere....like a boarding facility or some horse organization by leasing a horse or volunteering etc....horses are suddenly offered to you when people see how well their animals are taken care of and people have life changes that don't include their horses any longer.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I was going to adopt a horse once. There was a one year lease and after that the horse was given to you under the condition it was never raced again. It was fair and all, but the horse didn't work out for me. 

I'd do it again if I had reason to - but I'd never "adopt" a horse with a lot of conditions with it. Once a horse is mine I want it to be mine - not mine subject to loads of conditions. 

It's a tricky thing and as much as I'd like to save a horse or something, it's difficult. I spend a fair bit of my money on my horse every week - its not just some pet that lives at home, it takes up a lot of my time and money and I don't want to keep doing all that, putting all the work in, and then be told I can't do what I want with my horse. 

It's a choice that each person needs to make for themselves, but I'll always lean to owning a horse outright.


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## Nightside (Nov 11, 2012)

I almost adopted a horse until they told me he would never be mine really. Their horses always remain property of the rescue, subject to inspection and scrutiny at any time. I've got a problem with feeding and training a horse for years and not having a say in it if they decide they want him back, or not being able to sell the horse if it isn't a good match but I've already put countless hours of work into it. Like someone else said, I'm not going to pay to train and feed a horse that isn't mine.
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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I am wondering if the wording and terms used with rescues is a legality possibly? Even though that is how it is said, how could a rescue actually check on all of those horses adopted out for their whole lives? Many rescues have limited funds to feed the horses and pay the employees to begin with, moreless check up on and take back horses they already adopted out.....????


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

countrylove said:


> It is sad... the animals always pays
> 
> We have the contract just in case but don't enforce it unless it is really truly a bad situation and most of the time we are to busy to do home checks and be all excuse my language but Anal about things. Too **** many horses "need" saving...
> 
> ...



Exactly my point with the hypocrisy from rescuses. If you are not going to enforce it why is it int he contract ? If you're not anal (your words) why have anal verbiage in the contracts ? When you write one thing on paper, but say another your talking out of both sides of your mouth and to me, is an immediate turnoff and something I would want nothing to do with.
Case in point with specific, contract spelled out a mandatory paste worm cycle, yet potential adopter uses fecal count and worms as needed. Contract spelled out, "No Racing". yet this was an arabian rescue and adopter specifically wanted the horse for endurance. 
In both points the rescue said, "Oh dont worry about the contract its just a formality",,,, well then take it out of the contract. 
Seriously. If you know stuff is anal and you know your not gonna enforce it, stop being anal and intrusive with the contracts and maybe you will place a few more horses in decent homes.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> Exactly my point with the hypocrisy from rescuses. If you are not going to enforce it why is it int he contract ? If you're not anal (your words) why have anal verbiage in the contracts ? When you write one thing on paper, but say another your talking out of both sides of your mouth and to me, is an immediate turnoff and something I would want nothing to do with.
> Case in point with specific, contract spelled out a mandatory paste worm cycle, yet potential adopter uses fecal count and worms as needed. Contract spelled out, "No Racing". yet this was an arabian rescue and adopter specifically wanted the horse for endurance.
> In both points the rescue said, "Oh dont worry about the contract its just a formality",,,, well then take it out of the contract.
> Seriously. If you know stuff is anal and you know your not gonna enforce it, stop being anal and intrusive with the contracts and maybe you will place a few more horses in decent homes.


I agree. Maybe it's to weed out the ones that have no clue about owning a horse by using big language and words to scare people into thinking how serious the contract is?


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## BarrelRacer23 (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't think I could ever adopt a horse, I want it to be mine. But buying a horse who needs out of a bad situation that I've done. My old mare was skinny an underweight when bought, and my mom felt so sorry for her now 2 year old last year she had to save her. Paid more than she was worth at the time but given a few more weeks she probably wouldn't have made it.
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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

I rehomed my horse from the Scottish SPCA, an what they do is sell you the horse, with full ownership. They get you to fill in a questionnaire and then come and do a visit to the yard where you will be keeping the horse, and do one further visit within six months which they arrange with you. Other than that, you pay, horse is yours, you can sell it on afterwards and move it if you desire... Worked pretty well for me 
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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

if horse is yours, whats with the 6 month visit ?
To the people reading this involved with rescues.
You have some serious problems in the way things are going and this seems to be an industry wide problem. You have a message board forum. The members a cross section of people who not only own horses, but simply the fact they are on this board means you are dealing with a population of people pasionate about their horses, doing research, swapping ideas and learning and growing on how to take better care of their horses. Yet almost universally the membership , or at least those posting here wants NOTHING to do with rescue organizations.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

What amazes me with all these restrictions is with the state the US economy is in plus the natural disasters, money is drying up for rescues. Many have taken in so many unwanted horses they are now finding themselves in court. This situation is worsening by the month especially with the slaughter plants in Canada closed for export for the next few months at least. The problem with rescues that will take a horse back is that someone else foots the feed bill, vet, farrier, training then loses the horse with no compensation? Because someone's best friend wants the horses? That is the reality. Buy your horse outright. I'd even question the legality of those contracts. They wouldn't exist if a court decided the adoptee deserved compensation for interim care.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

A word to the rescues; if you're TRULY interested in rehoming horses, then do it without all the ridiculous stipulations. Do your due diligence about making sure the horse and person are a good match, then sign over the animal free and clear.

If you think you have the right to pop in and visit whenever you feel like it, put stupid, restrictive rules in place, and expect to be able to take the horse back if there's a difference of philosophies in care and training, then you're your own worst enemies. You can't want to rehome the animal that badly if you expect to keep your thumb on it forever.

Continue with the crazy, over controlling rules, and keep moaning about how HARD it is to find good people to adopt, instead of admitting that the real problem is YOU.


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> if horse is yours, whats with the 6 month visit ?
> To the people reading this involved with rescues.
> You have some serious problems in the way things are going and this seems to be an industry wide problem. You have a message board forum. The members a cross section of people who not only own horses, but simply the fact they are on this board means you are dealing with a population of people pasionate about their horses, doing research, swapping ideas and learning and growing on how to take better care of their horses. Yet almost universally the membership , or at least those posting here wants NOTHING to do with rescue organizations.


The six month visit is so etching that they 'retain the right for', they don't always do. It's because the SSPCA here is not only a rescue but has legal rights of seizure and prosecution in animal welfare cases here in Scotland. Technically they can inspect any premises if there has been a complaint made, and the six month check is nothing to do with taking the animal back but just an inspection to make sure everything is ok. The animal by this point is legally yours, but the check means the society is aware of the animals situation and stops it essentially going into another abusive/cruel/negligent home. But then our animal welfare laws are different here, the sspca actually has legal power which I don't think US protection societies do?
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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

What Speed Racer said! Hubby and I honestly looked at adopting two horses instead of buying. With the "you must use Parelli" mind set and the terms of the contract which basically boiled down to us not ever truly owning the horse, we opted out. Unfortunate because we would have provided an excellent home for two horses. *shrugs*


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

No wonder the the rescues are overcrowded! 

I have "rescued" several horses as in I gave a home to needy animals. As far as letting some busy body into my life so that I can spend a lot of money on a horse that nobody wants to start with........ Not likely. These are horses that nobody wants. I have looked at a few sites and the average horse is either old, lame, ugly, untrained, ungelded, or otherwise not worth taking home. 

If you want your horse to always have a good home, geld him, train him, and keep him healthy.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

I just skimmed over the responses but I adopted my first horse in January. I took lessons for over 10 years so I wasn't new to horses but I was new to horse ownership. After all the bull I went through I will NEVER adopt again. I also encourage others to NOT adopt if they want to own their horse.

I did audits on so many "non-profits" that I hate them with a passion, rescues included. They are nothing more than a company that wants to find a way around taxes. I feel I way over paid for my horse at $250. She wasn't even halter broke and she was psycho oh yea and she was 19. Emaciated, not taken care of by the foster because the rescue didn't check on them and she cost me several thousand dollars to rehab due to that mans ignorance. The rescue claims they are co-owner of my horse. If they truely want to be co-owner than they can be co-owner of my vet and feed bills too. 

I'm in college and due to the stupidity of the rescue and the lies and bull I was told I had to take out loans for my first year of school. If it wasn't for that I would still be student loan free.

I hate rescues that "adopt" out horses. They don't care about the horses they care about their bottom line.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

minstrel said:


> The six month visit is so etching that they 'retain the right for', they don't always do. It's because the SSPCA here is not only a rescue but has legal rights of seizure and prosecution in animal welfare cases here in Scotland. Technically they can inspect any premises if there has been a complaint made, and the six month check is nothing to do with taking the animal back but just an inspection to make sure everything is ok. or they take the horse back, The animal by this point is legally yours, unless they disagree with your methods,but the check means the society is aware of the animals situation and stops it essentially going into another abusive/cruel/negligent home. by taking the horse, or placing more restrictions and requirements on you, But then our animal welfare laws are different here, the sspca actually has legal power which I don't think US protection societies do? Some try to pretend they do, even going as far as dressing up in play police uniforms with phony badges.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry but if they are maintaining a right to show up in 6 months and inspect, they are maintaining rights over the horse, and you dont fully own it. Now in your case you agreed to the terms and seem happy with the arrangement. Thats fine, but we have rescues that put some really dumb and intrusive terms in their contracts. When you object frequently the reply is to not worry about it.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

MissColors said:


> Yes but I take daily care of my horse. And what if one day I love the mare I adopt so much I might want to breed her once one day. I'm not looking to run a breeding operation. But it should be my choice at some point. I would even be good with that two year period. But the randomly coming on to the farm especially if I'm not there is the part that I have a big problem with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not saying you wouldn't take care of your horse. I'm saying that it's BS like I mentioned that often makes rescues feel like they have to have so many rules and be so controlling. The rescue took that horse back when they really didn't have room for her and, to my knowledge, she is still at the rescue because they can't find a suitable home for her (she is literally psycho...trust me on that one...I have the fractured ankle to prove it and she nearly broke the trainer's nose). She's been there for almost two years now.
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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Another problem I have with rescue people is that too many of them keep psycho and physically compromised horses far too long. If they're dangerous and/or in pain that can't be controlled, put the beast out of its misery. Why is it being kept alive taking up space, time, and money that could better be spent on an animal who has more of a chance at finding a good home?

Too many rescues are run by people with no business acumen, and who are in it for the ego boost and praise.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I'm not saying you wouldn't take care of your horse. I'm saying that it's BS like I mentioned that often makes rescues feel like they have to have so many rules and be so controlling. *The rescue took that horse back when they really didn't have room for her and, to my knowledge, she is still at the rescue because they can't find a suitable home for her (she is literally psycho...trust me on that one...I have the fractured ankle to prove it and she nearly broke the trainer's nose). She's been there for almost two years now.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not really doing the rescue any favors there, imo, with that description of events - they took on a horse they had no room for and are keeping a horse that is dangerous to those around her, for what - why continue to invest resources into a horse that cannot be placed at the expense of horses they could help?


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> Another problem I have with rescue people is that too many of them keep psycho and physically compromised horses far too long. If they're dangerous and/or in pain that can't be controlled, put the beast out of its misery. Why is it being kept alive taking up space, time, and money that could better be spent on an animal who has more of a chance at finding a good home?
> 
> Too many rescues are run by people with no business acumen, and who are in it for the ego boost and praise.


I'm completely with you on this! How many more horses could be rescued if the hopeless cases weren't clung to by the rescues? The rescue that has the mare I referred to is run by a lady who thinks she can save them all and that all of them are worth saving. I'm sorry, but a horse that maliciously injures humans is not an animal that should be available for adoption. If this mare was a dog, she would have been PTS long since...so why are horses different?
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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

themacpack said:


> Not really doing the rescue any favors there, imo, with that description of events - they took on a horse they had no room for and are keeping a horse that is dangerous to those around her, for what - why continue to invest resources into a horse that cannot be placed at the expense of horses they could help?


themacpack, I agree with you. I think the lady who runs that rescue is nuts. In fact, see my previous post. 

I understand where a lot of rescues are coming from with all the rules, but that doesn't mean I agree with them or would adopt from one.
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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

IMHO if you are going to run a rescue with that has to come some hard decisions. If your focus is to save as many adoptable horses as possible, then you have to be willing to weed out the horses that are dangerous, too lame and too sick.

It is like any business. You need to be smart about it. Horse "X" is likely never to be adopted and it is a constant drain on the money _*DONATED*_ that could be better spent on ones who have a shot at a good home. Instead of doing the right thing and giving horse "X" a dignified death, money is spent hand over fist to "save" them. Then they wonder why they have no cash.

This economy is horrible and I can't see it getting any better in the future. Feed prices are rising and every day average joe does not have the money to give out donations like he use to. They had better wake up before they all go under.

I understand and would abide by certain *terms* of a rescue contract. Unfortunately those terms have gone over the top and no, it's not cool for you to visit me 6 months later. If you want a 30 day evaluation period BEFORE you take my cash, I could probably deal with that. Otherwise, sorry.


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

I've adopted and never felt hovered over. Not once.

Craigslist. I've learned there are A LOT of horses listed that desperately need an 'Upgrade'. I've seen many horses listed on CL that didn't sell and went to auction to be bid on by the kill buyer.
Here in the Pacific NW, and other places too, there are a group of caring people that try to rehome those horses sitting in the kill pen.
Usually the horses have about a week before they're shipped to slaughter. In that week, these people work tirelessly to get these horses out of danger of the slaughter truck.

And, these horses are not always the sickly, emaciated horses. Some are down right gems! My kill pen horse had equine loyalty in his bloodlines.
For instance, in the Eugene Oregon kill pen right now there are very nice, broke, rideable horses.

So, buying a horse off of Craigslist _can_ save them from going to be bid on by the meat man. Therefore, you've 'rescued', 'upgraded', what ever you want to call it~ you've helped.


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> Sorry but if they are maintaining a right to show up in 6 months and inspect, they are maintaining rights over the horse, and you dont fully own it. Now in your case you agreed to the terms and seem happy with the arrangement. Thats fine, but we have rescues that put some really dumb and intrusive terms in their contracts. When you object frequently the reply is to not worry about it.


Actually, you do have legal ownership when dealing with the SSPCA. What you do is sign over a premises visitation, not a right to take the horse back if they simply don't like what they see. The only way the horse can be actually taken back after you have bought it is if they find you breaking animal welfare legislation. So no, the are not retaining any ownership, they are maintaining an aftercare procedure for the animal. Trust me - my lawyer dad went over all the small print before we bought him!!
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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Cat, if the horses haven't shipped to slaughter, then they're not yet in the kill pen. The actual kill pen is at the slaughterhouse itself. So these people are merely buying horses. Which I have absolutely no problem with, but please, unless they're at the actual slaughterhouse they're NOT buying out of the kill pen.

Also, contrary to popular belief, the majority of horses bought by the KBs are young, sound, and in good weight. Many KBs are also traders, and are more than happy to sell on an animal. It'll bring more money from an individual than the slaughterhouse will pay. 

As with ANY meat animal, nobody wants the old, thin, or sickly.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I've never tried adopting a horse. I did try it with a Border Collie a few years back. The home visit was concerned that we owned horses, since 'Border Collies and horses don't mix'. They were concerned that we weren't interested in dog sports, although we have about 1/2 acre fenced in where our dogs run and wrestle. And state land 1/2 mile away where I went jogging. BTW - I've owned a Border Collie or part Border Collie most of my adult life.

In the end, they decided we could only handle a very low energy Border Collie. In talking to the woman who did our home inspection, I found out one of their 'high energy' Border Collies that they didn't want me to adopt was at her home, with 8 others. He was kept in a crate 23+ hrs/day because he was too high energy. She took him out on a leash twice a week. When I told her that ANY dog I've owned over the last 50 years would be 90% psycho if treated like that, it didn't do my application much good.

So I bought Black Jack the Border Collie pup from a breeder in Oregon. This was his first night here, poor dog, abused in my wife's lap:


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

They kept the dog in a crate 23 hours? That is abuse for sure. The dog would be better off put down. 

I adopted an adorable kitten from the pound through a rescue group. It was exposed to feline viral rhinotracheitis at the pound. Even though he was vaccinated, he ended up sick for close to a month even with treatment. Two months later, he still sneezes on occasion. I doubt that I will adopt another pound animal.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> Exactly my point with the hypocrisy from rescuses. If you are not going to enforce it why is it int he contract ? If you're not anal (your words) why have anal verbiage in the contracts ? When you write one thing on paper, but say another your talking out of both sides of your mouth and to me, is an immediate turnoff and something I would want nothing to do with.
> Case in point with specific, contract spelled out a mandatory paste worm cycle, yet potential adopter uses fecal count and worms as needed. Contract spelled out, "No Racing". yet this was an arabian rescue and adopter specifically wanted the horse for endurance.
> In both points the rescue said, "Oh dont worry about the contract its just a formality",,,, well then take it out of the contract.
> Seriously. If you know stuff is anal and you know your not gonna enforce it, stop being anal and intrusive with the contracts and maybe you will place a few more horses in decent homes.


Call it whatever you want but it protects the horses. Just because we don't have the need to use it now, doesn't mean someday we might. Our contract is also legal in the state of Oregon and our rescue is supported by the community as well (moral support & volunteers). We have absolutely no problems rehoming horses. We have an organization that does lessons for disabled kids around here and they keep coming back to adopt more along with the community that flocks to our yard because we have some of the best trained horses on the market. Like I've said we weed through the horses and only take the best mentally and physically. We also train all of the horses before adoption and include free training throughout the entire time you own the horse. I don't see the big deal and I know my rescue is an exception in this case but it is hard not to get offended. I respect everyone and their opinions but not all rescues are bad. Mine is not.

We do not receive donations, so we aren't spending anyone's money but our own. If I choose to spend my money this way so be it, I'm not asking you to donate and we don't ask for donations either. We have received them but we do not ask for them. 

Not all rescues are bad and rescued horses can make amazing horses for anyone at any level, even showing.

Please don't be so quick to judge...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> Cat, if the horses haven't shipped to slaughter, then they're not yet in the kill pen. The actual kill pen is at the slaughterhouse itself. So these people are merely buying horses. Which I have absolutely no problem with, but please, unless they're at the actual slaughterhouse they're NOT buying out of the kill pen.
> 
> . .


Ok...the horses that are in the 'holding pen'??? Whatever the area they are before they get on the truck.
Either way.


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## Eolith (Sep 30, 2007)

The only adopting I do is through the BLM. As long as you fit the initial requirements, they stay out of your hair... and once the horse has been with you for a year and is observed to be in good health, you get full ownership.

Maybe you should look into some of the Mustang Makeover events, or TIP trainers... the mustangs aren't very expensive at all. You can get a TIP trained horse for $125, and the saddle trained Mustang Makeover horses usually go for under $1000.

Mustang Heritage Foundation - Index


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Rescues as tax shelters. Ai! Legalized money laundering is all that is.

I'm working with others in my state to close the gaps that we can to discourage so-called "rescues" from setting up here -- to stop them from wasting valuable land and to prevent them from stealing from kind hearted people.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

I worked in rescue for many years, and I don't adopt from them. Not because of anything bad, mind you, all the rescues I worked with were good organizations with reasonable requirements (all non-profit, none were money laundering, lol!) who did a lot of good work. I just know that the rescues I worked with WOULD find homes for all their animals, those animals that they have are already 'safe' and in a good situation that will only get better once them find a home that wants them. 

I bought my horse before he went on his way to a horse trader because he just wasn't a fit for the place he was at. My cats were from CL or someone who knew someone that needed a new home for their critter. These critters might well have landed somewhere less than ideal. None of them were abused, but none of them would have a home much longer either, and god only knows what would have happened after that, so they were animals I perceived as in 'danger' of ending up somewhere unpleasant and needed me. I just call them my "rehomed" animals.


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## peppersgirl (Aug 24, 2012)

recently we looked into adopting from a boston terrier rescue in nebraska... found a really cute senior special needs boston female that seemed like she would fit in with our boston herd just fine...But then I started doing some digging on their adoption fees.. $250 on up to $550 for their dogs... Sorry but I am not going to spend that much on a senior who is special needs and will need ongoing care and has a less than stellar history.. I ended up buying a puppy from a breeder who also was selling me hay:/ 

I can deal with a one time house check, as IMO you will get a sence of what I am about by looking at all of my other animals..none are unhappy or abused.. And if for whatever reason the animal doesnt work out, returning is the easiest thing anyway so I dont have an issue with that either.. but anything more than that and to me thats insane.

Since getting Etta (our puppy) I have been offered a free 8 year old male boston..if I didnt have three with a baby on the way I totally would have snapped him up...but instead I networked to help the guy find him a home


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

That is why I will NEVER adopt a horse. Dogs ya depending on the rescue. I foster for a local rescue here with dogs. But I will not adopted a horse from a rescue. One big reason is the rules next is they just do not have what I would want but even if they did still would not.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

boots said:


> Rescues as tax shelters. Ai! Legalized money laundering is all that is.
> 
> I'm working with others in my state to close the gaps that we can to discourage so-called "rescues" from setting up here -- to stop them from wasting valuable land and to prevent them from stealing from kind hearted people.


Then you are part of the problem not the solution. Most lagit rescues loose money. I know the ones that I work with are always in debt. So not sure how you think that they need to be closed down. If they did not exist all the dogs and cats that get pulled out of kill shelters would be well dead. 

So since you do not think that rescues are a good think I will just send all those dogs and cats and even horses to you and you can care for them. Or if that does not work for you I will give you a shuvel so you can dig big holes for all the dogs and cats that get gassed.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

nrhareiner said:


> Then you are part of the problem not the solution. Most lagit rescues loose money. I know the ones that I work with are always in debt. So not sure how you think that they need to be closed down. If they did not exist all the dogs and cats that get pulled out of kill shelters would be well dead.
> 
> So since you do not think that rescues are a good think I will just send all those dogs and cats and even horses to you and you can care for them. Or if that does not work for you I will give you a shuvel so you can dig big holes for all the dogs and cats that get gassed.


Well said
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

nrhareiner said:


> Then you are part of the problem not the solution. Most lagit rescues loose money. I know the ones that I work with are always in debt. So not sure how you think that they need to be closed down. If they did not exist all the dogs and cats that get pulled out of kill shelters would be well dead.
> 
> So since you do not think that rescues are a good think I will just send all those dogs and cats and even horses to you and you can care for them. Or if that does not work for you I will give you a shuvel so you can dig big holes for all the dogs and cats that get gassed.


Hardly part of the problem. 

We are going to make rescues keep better records of what they take in and what they spend on actual animals, buildings,etc. Rescues will be required to demonstrate they are eligible for tax exempt status. The requirements will be much stricter. There will be oversight. Hurray.

What we WILL do is eliminate the fake rescues that are muddying their books with currently legal, though unethical, bookkeeping practices. Practices that allow them to personally gain through donations that well meaning people intend to help horses, dogs, cats, or whatever the rescues focus is.

This will result in moneys donated going to more legitimate groups. It will weed out the ones using the rescue as a tax shelter.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

boots said:


> Hardly part of the problem.
> 
> We are going to make rescues keep better records of what they take in and what they spend on actual animals, buildings,etc. Rescues will be required to demonstrate they are eligible for tax exempt status. The requirements will be much stricter. There will be oversight. Hurray.
> 
> ...


If you are worried about this then report that rescue. Do not donate to them. Adding more regulations will not help. The lagit rescues barely have enough money to pay vet bills lettalone the extra that this type of thing will do.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

I do some rescue and adopt out horses to people, but I take a wholly different approach. Before I let the horse go, I check the people's references. Vet, farrier, work and personal. I check their credit rating. I do an on-site visit. When I am happy with the situation, then I re-home the horse, often without any fee at all. Once the horse leaves with its new owner, they own it free and clear. If there are registration papers, they get them.

It costs far too much money to keep a horse for me to try to assert any rights over an animal when someone else is paying the bills.

I do request that, should they need to rehome the horse, I am given first option to get the horse back. I have taken a few back. If the owners paid a fee to me, I try to reimburse them the fee, if the horse is reasonably close to within the same shape and temperament as when they got it.

Of course, I am not rich, so I couldn't do this with lots of horses, like some of the rescues try to do. I can only do it one or two at a time. The last couple of years have really been more limited for me due to cash flow, but things are looking up!


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

I feel showing all of those rules is just a deterrent from having people even show interest in your rescue. I could easily provide a very happy home for another horse. And intend to. I also know about going back to find horses in bad condition. I leased my horse and went and did a check. Ans well things were awful. Horse came home in a week. But not because of fencing and things but because I could count my horses ribs and when I sent him down there he was pleasantly plump.  b
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

Makes me glad I found a no-strings rescue. OPTIONAL $150 donation to help continue care for the remaining horses. All I did was express interest, work my butt off to find a good place to board, and sign the dotted line. Only "catch" was that he goes back to the rescue in the event that I am no longer able to keep him.


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## JaphyJaphy (Nov 15, 2012)

This is a very interesting thread! 

I always thought I might adopt in the future, but I hadn't researched it much (which is why I haven't adopted already). I noticed on a few websites that I visited that there seemed to be pretty strict regulations. I always wondered how they actually enforced them (ex. farm visits) if the adopter lived far away from the rescue. From where I live, the nearest rescue is probably, oh, about 1000 miles away. Are they going to come drop in randomly on me to make sure I haven't switched my wood fencing over to barbed wire?

I think that all the rules and regulations when adopting a horse are put in place with good intention, certainly, but it sounds like _some_ rescues are taking it a bit too far...

I'd also agree that there are plenty of horses out there to "adopt" without ever having to deal with a rescue organization. Especially if you are involved in the horse community where you live, someone always knows someone who's looking for a new home for a horse.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

I dont think you can say ALL rescues are laundering money, busy body control freaks. Thats like me saying ALL horse owners are the same. English riders are hoity toity, by the book, over bearing horses owners and Western riders are cruel, rough, abusive and down right ******* in their horse ownership. Are some English people like that...uhh yeah. Are some Western people like that......definitly. Too say all is ludicrous as is saying ALL rescues are bad, evil places that are money hungery serpents that prey on the kind donations of others. Opinions are great and everyone has there take on things but lets not lump ALL together just when it serves your purpose cause any other time the people commenting now would be the very ones to explain the differences between kill pens and holding pens etc. Just my input


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Hmmm ... I think people are taking all this the wrong way. I don't believe anybody is lumping "all rescues" into one. Of course there are good ones. I don't think anyone will debate that issue.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

nrhareiner said:


> Adding more regulations will not help.


What regulations? To get tax exempt status now all it takes is filling out a government/IRS form. And as government forms go, it's not even a difficult one. There are no other regulations beyond what an areas livestock laws cover. 



> Hmmm ... I think people are taking all this the wrong way. I don't believe anybody is lumping "all rescues" into one. Of course there are good ones. I don't think anyone will debate that issue.


I agree.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Catpeedontherug said:


> Ok...the horses that are in the 'holding pen'??? Whatever the area they are before they get on the truck.
> Either way.


A holding pen is just that, it's not anywhere close to being a 'kill pen'. People who use those words are doing nothing more than using emotional manipulation on others.

It wouldn't sound so dire if they said, 'Yeah, the KB bought a group of horses and we want to buy a couple from him. We don't really know if they're actually going to slaughter, but we don't want to take that chance.'

All fine and dandy, but please don't scream SLAUGHTER when there's no imminent danger. AC4H does that all the time, and it's underhanded. 

Getting on the truck from the holding pen at the auction house doesn't equate to 'shipping to slaughter immediately'. They HAVE to get on someone's truck, since they have different owners than the ones who brought them to the auction.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> A holding pen is just that, it's not anywhere close to being a 'kill pen'. People who use those words are doing nothing more than using emotional manipulation on others.
> 
> It wouldn't sound so dire if they said, 'Yeah, the KB bought a group of horses and we want to buy a couple from him. We don't really know if they're actually going to slaughter, but we don't want to take that chance.'
> *
> ...


The old, 'Give us money or the horsey gets it' pitch - gotta love it. "Must go by Saturday or they go to the slaughter house", etc


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Silent one said:


> I do some rescue and adopt out horses to people, but I take a wholly different approach. Before I let the horse go, I check the people's references. Vet, farrier, work and personal. *I check their credit rating.* I do an on-site visit. When I am happy with the situation, then I re-home the horse, often without any fee at all. Once the horse leaves with its new owner, they own it free and clear. If there are registration papers, they get them.


That I have a huge issue with. I have a terrible credit rating due to an accident 3 years ago and I have 4 years left before it will jump back up. And quite frankly that is no rescues business. If my vet and farrier say I always pay on time and provide regular routine care that is all you need to know. 

In order to check my credit rating you would need my social security number and no way in hell would I give that out to a person. Banks and insurance companies are all that get that. To much fraud around.


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## Catpeedontherug (Oct 23, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> A holding pen is just that, it's not anywhere close to being a 'kill pen'. People who use those words are doing nothing more than using emotional manipulation on others.
> 
> It wouldn't sound so dire if they said, 'Yeah, the KB bought a group of horses and we want to buy a couple from him. We don't really know if they're actually going to slaughter, but we don't want to take that chance.'
> 
> ...



My point being you can 'upgrade' or 'rescue' from Craigslist before the horse ends up in a worse situation.


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## WickedNag (Sep 7, 2010)

Buy! enough said...


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

poppy1356 said:


> That I have a huge issue with. I have a terrible credit rating due to an accident 3 years ago and I have 4 years left before it will jump back up. And quite frankly that is no rescues business. If my vet and farrier say I always pay on time and provide regular routine care that is all you need to know.
> 
> In order to check my credit rating you would need my social security number and no way in hell would I give that out to a person. Banks and insurance companies are all that get that. To much fraud around.


That's funny. Even to rent an apartment around here they check your credit rating.


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## cmarie (Dec 19, 2011)

MissColors said:


> Well for some unknown reason I feel obligated to adopt. But because of where I board I have high tinsel. Not by choice but it isn't causing a problem. Well what's one of the first rules to one of the adoption agenceys that I am actually interested in a horse at??? No high tinsel. Well on to the next one, physical inspection of your property before even trying out any horse on our property. random check ups and only if after two years you have the horse and things look ok... we'll take it to the board and if you are declined then no refund for your provided care and the horse comes back. Oh and $100 non refundable application fee. No moving allowed with in 5 years after adopting.
> 
> Wtf with the rules. Jeeze. Its like you don't want people to have horses that you put up for adoption. I hate buying also because where I live everything is over priced for what they have or too far for what's worth the money.
> 
> ...


If it would make you feel better I'll let you adopt one of my horses, 5 to choose from 4 long yearlings fillies and a 16 yr old paint mare.


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## fkcb1988 (Aug 16, 2012)

Yeah I too dont understand the credit check thing. Thats alittle over board. I dont think a potential job needs to check your credit either. Just cause you have a bad number what is that proving. Maybe your trying to get the job to get out of debt duh lol. 

I think adopting is a great thing. There are plenty of useable horses out there needing a home that are just a worthy of a home as a horse for sale. I think SOME rescues do go waaay over board with there rules. But if you do your research you can find many upstanding rescues that have you and the horses best interest in mind. I also would only adopt from a 501c3 nonprofit organization which most of the reputable ones around me are. I consider those actual rescues


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

My only advice in adopting from a rescue would be to have your vet do a complete checkup including bloodwork. A vet check is a good idea anyway but I would be especially careful with a horse whose background could be abuse and neglect. 
I would have a difficult time dealing with a rescue that had too many stipulations (must use Parelli methods? Really? Clinton Anderson would be out?). I do believe there are rescues trying to do their best. Each of us has to pick the method of horse purchase that works for us. I have been involved with rescue in the past and have adopted dogs through rescue and been happy with the process. I have also experienced frustration with some organizations. So, I guess I would say if one isn't working for you check out another if adoption is the way you want to go.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

If I want to rent an apartment from you, then I'll give you my social security number. If I want to buy a horse from you, I will go to the bank, get cash, and pay in $100 bills. If that is not good enough, I'll buy a different horse.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

boots said:


> What regulations? To get tax exempt status now all it takes is filling out a government/IRS form. And as government forms go, it's not even a difficult one. There are no other regulations beyond what an areas livestock laws cover.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree.


 
There are quite a few. Each 501 3c must keep records of what comes in and goes out. They are subject to audit at any time. If you think there is a 501 3c that is not doing things in a correct mannor call the IRS. They will audit them.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I agree I would never let a rescue do a credit check either. One it is not their business second each time it is run it lowers your number.

I have been a foster for a local rescue for years had addopted out 100s of dogs over the years and have yet to run a credit report. No need. Call their vet their referances and that gives a very good idea of who they are. Talk to them watch how they interact with the animal and so on.


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## poppy1356 (Jan 18, 2012)

Yes and each report run really counts against you. Car dealerships never tell you that when they go search for a bank for you. They automatically send it to atleast 5-10 banks, boom your credit score just went down.

and funny you mention an apartment. I have a nice 1 bedroom apartment, fairly new and in a good place and they never ran my credit report. All they wanted was proof of income, so paystub or in my case a letter from my new employer since I was about to move 200 miles.

Employers can not use your credit score against you and even the humance society doesn't run a credit check, it means nothing when it comes to animals. 

You are completely overstepping your bounds by demanding a credit check in order to let people buy a horse.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

MissColors said:


> Well for some unknown reason I feel obligated to adopt. But because of where I board I have high tinsel. Not by choice but it isn't causing a problem. Well what's one of the first rules to one of the adoption agenceys that I am actually interested in a horse at??? No high tinsel. Well on to the next one, physical inspection of your property before even trying out any horse on our property. random check ups and only if after two years you have the horse and things look ok... we'll take it to the board and if you are declined then no refund for your provided care and the horse comes back. Oh and $100 non refundable application fee. No moving allowed with in 5 years after adopting.
> 
> Wtf with the rules. Jeeze. Its like you don't want people to have horses that you put up for adoption. I hate buying also because where I live everything is over priced for what they have or too far for what's worth the money.
> 
> ...



With the market what it is today, I wouldn't even consider adopting from a rescue. They have too many strings, the horse is not in danger and there are many, many nice and nicely trained horses that you can own and take care of without having all the baggage that comes along with a rescue horse. 

FYI, I'm not anti-rescue but if the horse is so special it needs all those strings attached, then it should have sold for 5 figures, not ended up in the rescue.


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## Silent one (Aug 22, 2011)

Nope, not overstepping my bounds to run a credit check. Actually, no one has ever complained except here and now on this board, LOL! And yes, Celeste, if you were BUYING a horse from me, I would be totally out of line. But we aren't talking a buying situation.

I don't really care about the credit rating. That's not the point. When I get a credit report what I am looking to see is if you are at least attempting to resolve your obligations. If I see a history of non-payment on a whole lot of bills, then I know there's a chance you will also not pay your board bills at the stable, and the horse will end up at the nearest auction.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Silent one said:


> Nope, not overstepping my bounds to run a credit check. Actually, no one has ever complained except here and now on this board, LOL! And yes, Celeste, if you were BUYING a horse from me, I would be totally out of line. But we aren't talking a buying situation.


My guess would be the people you are dealing with that are allowing this aren't all that educated on what could happen to them. Giving up a SSN for some individual to do a credit check over a horse? No way no how. My hubby and I guard our SSN's like you wouldn't believe. Identity theft is one bad monkey to get off your back and recover from. IF you can recover from it. Some deal with its effects for years. Some individual ask me for that to purchase a horse and I would run the other direction. You'd definitely be keeping your horse. :shock:


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

First off about the credit check and this is for the States and Canada: there are 2 types of credit checks. A soft inquiry and a hard inquiry. A hard inquiry does affect your score negatively but a soft inquiry does not. Also second misunderstanding: you do not need a SSN for a credit check, just name, DOB, and address.

I use to work for an outbound call center that ran credit checks and sold identity theft protection.

That's all for this convo... You guys already know I work for a rescue so I'll stay out of this debate. I'm greatly outnumbered LoL 

Very interesting thread though 
Gives my rescue some things to consider...
Im still firm on my opinion but I am open minded so our next meeting I am going to print this out for discussion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Well that's interesting because anyone who wants to check my credit asks me for an SSN number. If you are getting a credit check done with just a name and address, I'd guess I would be wondering about the validity of the credit check. Your credit is tied directly to your SSN. But even at that, I flat out wouldn't let anyone I'm not doing a large transaction with run a credit check on me. By large I mean house, car, boat, etc.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I think that there are three types of rescues.

1. Well run programs with good intentions that have the best interest of the animals at heart.

2. Scams that are set up to extort money from people using emotional blackmail.

3. Groups of people with good intentions that start out right and then get in way over their heads. There is a cat rescue group near here. Some of the rescuers own over 40 cats. That is one household. They end up getting respiratory viruses because of new cats brought in. Their intentions are good. The cats still suffer. I am pretty sure the same thing happens with dogs and horses.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

BBBCrone said:


> Well that's interesting because anyone who wants to check my credit asks me for an SSN number. If you are getting a credit check done with just a name and address, I'd guess I would be wondering about the validity of the credit check. Your credit is tied directly to your SSN. But even at that, I flat out wouldn't let anyone I'm not doing a large transaction with run a credit check on me. By large I mean house, car, boat, etc.


We ran our credit checks through equifax. I never saw the reports. My job was to collect the info and submit it to equifax who directly sent the report to the customer. The purpose of the report was so that customers could check for identity fraud as your credit report is the first place identity theft appears. We only needed the 3 things I listed above and they received a full credit report under a soft inquiry. That is my first hand experience but I also have never pulled my own personal report just 100's of other people's on a daily basis. And the job sucked...

Being a outbound only call center and selling identity theft protection made people question the legitimacy which is why we never asked for SSN. We tried not to invade to much of their privacy. It was a way to give them a sense of security. After all we were selling them peace of mind from identity theft.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

BBBCrone said:


> Well that's interesting because anyone who wants to check my credit asks me for an SSN number. If you are getting a credit check done with just a name and address, I'd guess I would be wondering about the validity of the credit check. Your credit is tied directly to your SSN. But even at that, I flat out wouldn't let anyone I'm not doing a large transaction with run a credit check on me. By large I mean house, car, boat, etc.


Just to clarify a name and address alone will not work. The "key" info needed was the date of birth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Hmmm very interesting countrylove. Thanks for the info.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

I just learned all this a few months ago, before that I knew nothing. We had an extensive training course on identity theft and how to protect yourself. Did you know anyone with your name and address (which is considered public information and accessable to anyone) can forward your mail to a new address which they can then get their hands on your bank and credit card statements and wreak havoc from there. I never knew how easy it was. Kinda scary... Also when I lost my SS card and requested a new one, they didnt verify I was who I said I was with photo Id just needed a birth certificate. Birth certificates are public record as well. Anyone can request and receive a copy of your birth certificate and SS card.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Yeah it is some scary scary stuff. It's why we don't give out personal info, numbers, etc. We don't even toss stuff in the garbage anymore like we use to. It's all shredded.

Looking further into what you said, according to different sites on the subject, your credit report actually comes WITH your SSN. So if someone does manage to pull a CR with just name/address/dob it provides them with the SSN too. Which, if true, is downright scary in itself. I'm going to do some more digging into it for my own personal peace of mind.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Let me know what you find out. I'm curious as to how much they taught us is true or just scare tactics to make sales. I hated the job and quit because it was sales based and we basically pressured and scared people into buying our insurance program. I always felt bad lol I'm not a good pressure salesman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Again been working with a rescue for years and personally rehomed over 200 dogs in just past few years. NEVER have I or the rescue run a credit check. Nor would they. Not even a question on the application. This app is run through Petfinder. 

There is no need. I have yet to have a problem. 

If you feel you need that info then I say you need to rethink what you are doing.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

We were discussing credit checks in general. We got your point the first time. No need to repeat the same posts... I work for a rescue as well and we don't do credit checks either. I was just clearing up the misunderstandings about credit checks not how it relates to rescues. But as another poster said I can totally see the logic in it unless you have something to hide?? Anyone can access the info needed to steal your identity and its a lot easier than selling horses to obtain personal information. If you can't pay your bills or have an overwhelming amount of debt, I wouldnt sell you a horse. What shows me you can provide it proper care? You can't feed it, it develops health issues and you have to surrender it. We once again have a rescue situation. And I mean you in a general sense not anyone particularly. Rules and guidelines are set to avoid the horses ending back in a rescue situations. Our goal is forever homes not til its inconvienent or you cant afford it homes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I can see wanting a forever home for a dog or cat. They on average only live about 15 years if you are lucky. However horses. Living well into their late 20 and 30's I never think of a horse as a forever thing. Once most rescue horses are such that the person will most likely out grow them and want to move up. On average people have horses for about 5 years. This is my problem with rescues when it comes to horses. The cost to care, train and keep a horse is high. If I put the money and time into training a horse and then wish to sell it to get a better horse or anouther project horse. I do not want to have to GIVE the horse back to the rescue. I just made the horse much more valueble then it was when I go it from the rescue. So why should I have to give it back? That is probable one of the biggest reason why I will NEVER get a horse from a rescue. Plus I do not like people just showing up when ever they wish. First my property if fully locked and enclosed. Someone coming onto the property may not know if there are horses or dogs running the yard and let them out. Next the liablity reasons. If I am not home and they come onto my property.... No way no how. No one comes here unless they call first. Everyone knows it.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

We were considering getting horses from a rescue. That idea was put on the back burner REALLY quick. We were both overseas for years, so no references( at least not any who spoke English), no vet, no farrier. So we sort of rescued our horses from going to low end auction, found them on CL. So we did rescue work ourselves, they were both underweight, feet not taken care of, etc. And they came with papers, no strings attached. Cost about the same, if not cheaper.
Our cats came from the local kill shelter, one had been caught, as a stray, the other was just dumped when we were there.

Since there are rescue folks here, I would suggest, that papered females of breeding age should have the chance of going to a qualifying breeder. I think if they qualify to rescue a horse, they are very well capable of deciding about breeding. Im saying this because I see so many Arabian mares at rescues and a lot of breeders who would gladly take them, but without papers they won't even consider. Just my opinion.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> We were considering getting horses from a rescue. That idea was put on the back burner REALLY quick. We were both overseas for years, so no references( at least not any who spoke English), no vet, no farrier. So we sort of rescued our horses from going to low end auction, found them on CL. So we did rescue work ourselves, they were both underweight, feet not taken care of, etc. And they came with papers, no strings attached. Cost about the same, if not cheaper.
> Our cats came from the local kill shelter, one had been caught, as a stray, the other was just dumped when we were there.
> 
> Since there are rescue folks here, I would suggest, that papered females of breeding age should have the chance of going to a qualifying breeder. I think if they qualify to rescue a horse, they are very well capable of deciding about breeding. Im saying this because I see so many Arabian mares at rescues and a lot of breeders who would gladly take them, but without papers they won't even consider. Just my opinion.


Because there are hundreds and thousands of unwanted horses. Why create more? I'm against breeding horses just like I'm all for fixing a dog or cat. If you adopt a dog or cat they are fixed before you bring them home or you are given a time period to fix the animal or they take them back. A living animal is a living animal regardless how long they live for. It saddens me that people think they are a tool to use and throw away at your convenience. And if breeders would take these mares then explain why they are in a rescue situation to begin with...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

Well to put this thread maybe in another direction. The reason I would like another horse is to learn English and so my boyfriend can ride along also. But he honestly doesn't have a lot of time to ride. Should I just suck it up and continue to try to train my horse both Western and English?? He will jump he just doesn't like jumping in a course. Logs and jumps out in the woods he's all for it. Maybe I'll put a video up of his movements. 

Again.... horse girl problems. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

nrhareiner said:


> I can see wanting a forever home for a dog or cat. They on average only live about 15 years if you are lucky. However horses. Living well into their late 20 and 30's I never think of a horse as a forever thing. Once most rescue horses are such that the person will most likely out grow them and want to move up. On average people have horses for about 5 years. This is my problem with rescues when it comes to horses. The cost to care, train and keep a horse is high. If I put the money and time into training a horse and then wish to sell it to get a better horse or anouther project horse. I do not want to have to GIVE the horse back to the rescue. I just made the horse much more valueble then it was when I go it from the rescue. So why should I have to give it back? That is probable one of the biggest reason why I will NEVER get a horse from a rescue. Plus I do not like people just showing up when ever they wish. First my property if fully locked and enclosed. Someone coming onto the property may not know if there are horses or dogs running the yard and let them out. Next the liablity reasons. If I am not home and they come onto my property.... No way no how. No one comes here unless they call first. Everyone knows it.


Well first off it is people like you who treat these animals as tools and then leave them for who knows what to happen. They are not dogs but do they deserve less? Would your dog do half the things your horse does? You'll keep a dog for 15 yrs but not a horse for 5 more? I don't get what makes the dog better than a horse or why the horse doesn't deserve a forever home... seems hypocritical to me...

Second how do we know you improved the horse? We send our horses out fully trained with free training for the entire time you own the horse. More often than not the horse comes back ruined not improved, ruined. Besides how can you raise the value when we dont SELL horses. We rehome them meaning a $8000-$10,000 papered bombproof show horse can be rehomed for a whopping $300. Sounds to me like the adopter gets the deal not the rescue. Besides the fact we include free training for life and NO we do not require you to use it or require you to train a certain way like someone else said. Its just available to up the chances of a horse staying in a home that may not have the skills to solve a problem that may and usually will arise.

And third: we do not go trespassing on people's property. We will call you, set up a time and day and come out at your convenience. We do have common sense and manners besides the fact its illegal to trespass and the last thing we want to do is cause a liability issue for you because that just means the horse could end up back in a rescue situation. Not to mention we work with horses 24/7 and most of us have dogs, we know better than to go messing around with shut gates because of loose animals. Not everyone is an idiot or rude enough to randomly drop by and trespass while your gone. We are a legitimate organization. You must be dealing with some pretty shady places if this is such a problem.

To the general "I Hate Rescues" people:
You act like we are concerned about you and your personal life or we are out to "get" you. All we care about is the horse. Our regulations aren't to invade your privacy or harass you, in fact its the opposite, we are here to help. All these defensive people sound paranoid to me. What are you hiding? If your a good horse owner what's the big deal? Only adopters with bad intentions ever have an issue with our requirements... just saying...


Sounds like some people have nothing better to do than bash on good intentions and good people. I'm out of this convo. I've heard the argument and now its just being repeated. I also said Id show this to my board and we would discuss your concerns. Our rescue is nothing like you guys are describing but for the sake of improving the industry as a whole I would like to work on improving our regulations. So let's end on a good note and agree to disagree 

Happy Holidays Everyone!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

MissColors said:


> Well to put this thread maybe in another direction. The reason I would like another horse is to learn English and so my boyfriend can ride along also. But he honestly doesn't have a lot of time to ride. Should I just suck it up and continue to try to train my horse both Western and English?? He will jump he just doesn't like jumping in a course. Logs and jumps out in the woods he's all for it. Maybe I'll put a video up of his movements.
> 
> Again.... horse girl problems.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Id love to see a video 
Have you considered a "rescue" off Craigslist or an auction? That way your buying but are still putting a horse in a better situation than it was is before 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

countrylove said:


> Because there are hundreds and thousands of unwanted horses. Why create more?
> *It is about quality not quanity. There maybe all those unwanted horses but I have yet to find anything I would take in from a rescue for many reasons.*
> 
> I'm against breeding horses just like I'm all for fixing a dog or cat.
> ...


 
Why you ask? Well lets see. The person who had them did not know how to market them? Did not have the time for the word to get out that they where for sale. There are many reasons why a breeder may not have known a horse was for sale or needed to be sold before it hit a rescue.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

countrylove said:


> Because there are hundreds and thousands of unwanted horses. Why create more? I'm against breeding horses just like I'm all for fixing a dog or cat. If you adopt a dog or cat they are fixed before you bring them home or you are given a time period to fix the animal or they take them back. A living animal is a living animal regardless how long they live for. It saddens me that people think they are a tool to use and throw away at your convenience. And if breeders would take these mares then explain why they are in a rescue situation to begin with...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, maybe because said mare was in private, not breeders hands, maybe her bloodlines are more valuable now than they were maybe 10 years ago, maybe that breeder who would take her gladly, has her bloodlines and she'd fit? 
If we sterilize and castrate everything, eventually we'll be without companion animals......exactly like the president of the HSUS wants? Then it will be easier to move us all away from the countryside in the big city....etc etc etc......

Contrary to what most rescues want us to think, there are responsible breeders out there who put a great deal of thought into their matings. And giving that poor rescued soul another chance to shine as the dam of a superb foal to carry on the heritage is not wrong, IMO. 
I don't have a problem with breeding restrictions of a grade, or structurally unsound mare just to make that clear.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

countrylove said:


> Because there are hundreds and thousands of unwanted horses. Why create more? I'm against breeding horses .............
> 
> And if breeders would take these mares then explain why they are in a rescue situation to begin with...


So nobody should ever breed dogs, cats, or horses? Hmmm. That won't leave us many in a few years. If a mare (or a dog or cat for that matter) is a papered, high quality animal, it may be more likely to find a home if it can be bred. People neglect horses for various reasons. It is true that a lot of horses out there should not be bred, but some really good animals can be found in odd places. 

Do you think that all breeding should cease and only irresponsible people breed "mutts"? Stop all intentional breeding? That is a pretty shallow view.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Well, maybe because said mare was in private, not breeders hands, maybe her bloodlines are more valuable now than they were maybe 10 years ago, maybe that breeder who would take her gladly, has her bloodlines and she'd fit?
> If we sterilize and castrate everything, eventually we'll be without companion animals......exactly like the president of the HSUS wants? Then it will be easier to move us all away from the countryside in the big city....etc etc etc......
> 
> Contrary to what most rescues want us to think, there are responsible breeders out there who put a great deal of thought into their matings. And giving that poor rescued soul another chance to shine as the dam of a superb foal to carry on the heritage is not wrong, IMO.
> I don't have a problem with breeding restrictions of a grade, or structurally unsound mare just to make that clear.


 I do agree with this and I didn't express what I meant clearly (Never good at being very understandable and I warn people on here all the time lol) but how do we weed out the good breeders from the bad? Unfortunately it is too risky for a rescue and not to mention any horse we receive from a seizure can not be bred by Oregon state law, so we are bound by that too. Also to throw in the fact that rescued horses are usually unpapered or their papers were lost and we simply do not have funds to sign up to every registry and order papers every time a horse comes in. We are concerned about their health and training. If the adopter wants to order the papers by all means they can. As said above, breeders want papers. There are to many variables to deal with breeders. We have to be very careful or our doors could be shut down and then what use are we? There is a method behind the madness, believe it or not...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

How does Oregon enforce this don't breed the seized mares law? In Georgia, we spay and neuter all dogs and cats that are adopted at pounds. Spaying horses would be cost prohibitive.

I agree that most horses that end up at rescues should not be bred. If there is a really valuable mare, it would be stupid to prevent it.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Wayne Pacelle, president of the HSUS:
We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding.........one generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding.
Animal People News may 1993

Countrylove, I appreciate what your rescue does, it is a lot more and better than a lot of others do, but that quote above is just plain SCARY, and demanding sterilization of all animals will lead to what is quoted above.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Celeste said:


> So nobody should ever breed dogs, cats, or horses? Hmmm. That won't leave us many in a few years. If a mare (or a dog or cat for that matter) is a papered, high quality animal, it may be more likely to find a home if it can be bred. People neglect horses for various reasons. It is true that a lot of horses out there should not be bred, but some really good animals can be found in odd places.
> 
> Do you think that all breeding should cease and only irresponsible people breed "mutts"? Stop all intentional breeding? That is a pretty shallow view.


As stated above sorry for being unclear but I was not meaning each and every animal should not be bred, just most (like 97%) in RESCUE situations. The good breeder is rare in a rescue. And please explain how its a shallow view? That's what I don't get. Wouldnt it be shallow if I said we should only breed $10,000 show horses and there is no such thing as a good grade horse or only one breed should ever be bred? Because I disagree with all of those things. Its not shallow to think it unfair to breed an animal just because I can or want to, there are too many bad breeders out there, that I've seen firsthand. A responsible breeder is one thing and I explained that above. Its funny how I always see people on here criticizing people for breeding their own horses but I'm getting flack for what? Just an ironic thought that popped in my head...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Celeste said:


> How does Oregon enforce this don't breed the seized mares law? In Georgia, we spay and neuter all dogs and cats that are adopted at pounds. Spaying horses would be cost prohibitive.
> 
> I agree that most horses that end up at rescues should not be bred. If there is a really valuable mare, it would be stupid to prevent it.


Honestly I doubt they enforce it but being a 501(c)3 we still have to obey the laws or we could be shut down.

I also stated in an above post that in certain cases such as an exceptional broodmare that we would make exceptions to the breeding clause.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

countrylove said:


> I do agree with this and I didn't express what I meant clearly (Never good at being very understandable and I warn people on here all the time lol) but how do we weed out the good breeders from the bad? Unfortunately it is too risky for a rescue and not to mention any horse we receive from a seizure can not be bred by Oregon state law, so we are bound by that too. Also to throw in the fact that rescued horses are usually unpapered or their papers were lost and we simply do not have funds to sign up to every registry and order papers every time a horse comes in. We are concerned about their health and training. If the adopter wants to order the papers by all means they can. As said above, breeders want papers. There are to many variables to deal with breeders. We have to be very careful or our doors could be shut down and then what use are we? There is a method behind the madness, believe it or not...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I see the restrictions through law. But as Celeste stated, if the breeder who is interested in a particular papered mare, I don't think withholding her papers, as many rescues do, will do anybody any good.
I am on an Arabian forum and see this scenario at least once a week there. People don't take the horse and prefer to do their own rescues. That happens a lot on there and amazes me over and over again, to see what these folks on there are capable of. Within hours of posting a horse in need there is transport to a Foster home ans usually within a couple of days a home is found and people pitch in for the transport cost. Those people are breeders btw......


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I would think that most of the rescue horses are not good breeders. Most of the ones that I have seen advertised are 20 year old, untrained, lame, swayback stallions. Obviously we would be in agreement that they should not be bred. 

I am glad to see that you are not so adamantly opposed to breeding all horses that you would allow an irreplaceable bloodline die out just to make a statement.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Wayne Pacelle, president of the HSUS:
> We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding.........one generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding.
> Animal People News may 1993
> 
> Countrylove, I appreciate what your rescue does, it is a lot more and better than a lot of others do, but that quote above is just plain SCARY, and demanding sterilization of all animals will lead to what is quoted above.


Thank you! And I do agree, very scary. I'm not saying we should stop all breeding. I'm just saying it isn't practical for us or the horses we rehome. We have pregnant mares now and no where for them or the foals they came with and the ones they will drop this coming spring because of an irresponsible breeder who bred them back to back and they now require a ton of vet care due to being bred like this most of their lives. They are 11-16 yrs (there are 3) and they have arthritis so bad one can barely walk and is on the PTS list. In my area there are a lot of shady breeders which is why we added the breeding clause. If we knew any reputable breeders who wanted to adopt for breeding then that would be a completely different story. Unfortunately people don't think responsibly when it comes to breeding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Eta: we don't withhold the papers, its the owners responsibility to request them directly from the registry


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I see the restrictions through law. But as Celeste stated, if the breeder who is interested in a particular papered mare, I don't think withholding her papers, as many rescues do, will do anybody any good.b.


Right. All it will do is take away her chance at a good life. She can't be shown in breed shows. She is no more than a grade horse. And she may be worth $500 rather than $5,000. That is not rescue. That is ruining her life.


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## countrylove (Oct 18, 2012)

Celeste said:


> I would think that most of the rescue horses are not good breeders. Most of the ones that I have seen advertised are 20 year old, untrained, lame, swayback stallions. Obviously we would be in agreement that they should not be bred.
> 
> I am glad to see that you are not so adamantly opposed to breeding all horses that you would allow an irreplaceable bloodline die out just to make a statement.


I'm strongly opinionated lol but I'm not an extremist and I'm very open minded and willing to listen 

Also not a PETA fan or HSUS but the Oregon state rep for HSUS was pretty nice and has helped us when we first got started.

I'm a cattle rancher so I understand how frustrating these organizations can be to the responsible person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

countrylove said:


> Well first off it is people like you who treat these animals as tools and then leave them for who knows what to happen. They are not dogs but do they deserve less? Would your dog do half the things your horse does? You'll keep a dog for 15 yrs but not a horse for 5 more? I don't get what makes the dog better than a horse or why the horse doesn't deserve a forever home... seems hypocritical to me...
> 
> *First do not pretend to know me. I breed quality horses. I do not dump my broodmares when they get old. My last broodmare I retired lived out her life here until I had her put down at almost 32 years old. So do not say they are tools. what they are is quality animals that are very well treated. However there are times that I no longer need that particulare horse and I know there is a person out there that might have a good use for it. That is what breeders do. Dogs not the same. I have them some to show some to just be dogs. *
> 
> ...


At the end of the day each horse and owner is different. While I will agree that a lot of people who addopte animals just want an horse or dog or cat and have no real plans for that animal past that. However those are the type that rearly keep doing things with horse. Owners who will truely take a horse and put a lot of work into the horse and make the horse something that will be useful for a long time.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

I do believe, and this is my very own honest opinion, that anyone who has had a load of good and bad experiences with horses and a bucket load of experience would steer clear of the 'rescue' option when there are so many horses out there with an honest history and honest training.......

I could probably deal with a horse with 'issues'.......but I don't have the time nor the inclination to hurt myself in the process....

This is why I saved my money and got a sound highly trained horse that will 'hopefully' give me many years of riding.......you get what you pay for......

I haven't had much experience with 'rescues' but when I buy a horse....it's mine to do with as I please........


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think most rescues need to wake up and taste the toast. This is no longer the 80's when folks were just jumping on the bandwagon and throwing money at a rescue to "save the horses". Over time we've seen the rescues who took in the horses with the roached backs so severe that they could never be ridden, and watched the rescues support them as "unadoptable" for 20+ years, seen them do multiple colic surgeries on a 27 year old horse only to have to euthanize her anyhow, gotten jaded about the "kill pen" horses and watched as rescue after rescue inundated themselves in useless horses. 

We are now to the point, especially economically, that we want to see the money donated put to good, responsible use. Money has become very tight for most everyone and when giving to a rescue I know I want to see ethical, business-like choice made for the animals in their care. 

No longer do I want money that I'm donating to be spent on horses who have no future except to be lawn ornaments at a rescue. Not every horse needs to be saved, the purpose of a rescue should be to take in a horse and evaluate, train and vet it so that it can be rehomed for enough money to bring the next horse along. All the strings, hoarder mentality and control issues, in today's economy, are nothing but off putting to people. You can guilt people into adopting but when they see the unreasonable demands and restrictions....You won't keep them. 

I won't touch a rescue horse and after all of the things I've seen at various rescues, won't donate a dime. I'll go get a horse out of a tough situation but rescues, IMO, have out lived their usefulness. Too many have turned into animal hoarders and that's not helping the animals they're supposed to serve. 

Many strip horses of their papers, routinely, and that to me is completely unethical and inexcusable. Saying that getting the papers is up to the adopter to request them from the registration agency is merely double speak for, "We only deal in grade animals.". NO agency will issue papers without a signed transfer, court order or some other documentation showing a horse has changed hands legally. Once the original papers are gone, many will not help the next owner try to track down or get duplicate papers. Saying a horse has papers available and not giving the original papers to the new owner is nothing but a scam. 

Rescues need to take a long hard look at their practices and understand that if they continue as they are, their funding which is getting scarcer by the day, will dry up completely. They need to look at their business practices, their control issues and they need to understand that for less than most adoption fees, I can buy a horse, train it my way and sell it to the next owner and have absolutely no issues with anyone. They need to understand that these are HORSES not CHILDREN. I married my spouse til death do us part, if I had children that is for life, and while most of the animals who come here are here for life, I can't say that for every one. Some don't work out, times change, people get older, finances fluctuate. To insist on a forever home for an large livestock animal is purely unrealistic and that clause right there is enough to make me walk from a rescue or a potential purchase. 

Rescues need to get realistic.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

I hate that attitude of, "Only the guilty should object to intrusive searches" Stick your head in the sand if you like, bottom line is the vast majority of responsible horse owners want absolutely nothing to do with ANY rescue. You can continue on and blame all horse owners or look at what you are doing and fix it.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Joe4d said:


> I hate that attitude of, "Only the guilty should object to intrusive searches" Stick your head in the sand if you like, bottom line is the vast majority of responsible horse owners want absolutely nothing to do with ANY rescue. You can continue on and blame all horse owners or look at what you are doing and fix it.



I agree with this statement. "What are you hiding?" is a rather presumptuous question. Nothing really? If you have to ask that LOL. I have a problem with basic invasion of things folks don't need to know. This comes from valuing my privacy as a citizen and valuing the rights that many have fought and died for.

This post isn't intended as a lecture or anything. Just my response to a few of the things I've seen posted.

If a rescue truly WANTS to improve and improve the statistics for their horses than I think a lot of what's been said here has to be taken to heart. It's been said for a reason.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*adoption*

i wanted to adopt another pony as i had tammy layed to rest after 34 years to keep tricky company i have an adoption agentcey near were i am so i applyed.
i was gobsmacked with what thay said im not in the area ok i asked if thay had a cremello mare but a gray one would sufice we have stables and paddocks and thay are devided with electric fenceing and i asked them would thay like to inspect the place.
i got no reply and i was sadend by it as it would have given a home to an ill treated pony as tricky is reabilatated as he was beaten from piller to post as a foal he had shoes twice the size of his hoofs nailed on with roofing clout nails and had strangles and was head shy.
ind hated children we think children had beaten him he is in a loveing home and is 100% with children now and has been with me 27 years.
i felt dejected and my barn owner was selling her cob so i brought him.
there pictures are in my albums.


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## MissColors (Jul 17, 2011)

SOOO!!!! Optimistic news the rescue that has a horse that I actually like has another horse that i like so if i dont get my first choice. Also i talked to the director and she said she doesnt favor high tinsel but she'd probably make an exception for only a horse no foal. Which I'm completely fine with! Do you think I'd be too tall for a 14.3 mare? I'm 5ft9in. I've never ridden anything under 15.1.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

I am 5'9" also. I have ridden a 14.1 horse and I did fine, but I really feel more balanced on a bigger horse. It would also depend on what you are going to do. If you want to jump, I would think 14.3 might be a bit small. As far as riding on the flat, the 14.3 horse should be fine.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Not wanting to acquire a horse with strings attached has nothing to do with the quality of the home. I maintain a very high standard of care for my animals and if I cannot provide it, I don't acquire them. I'm happy to discuss how I care for my animals, but I *strongly* value my privacy and rights as an owner.

To me, having a rescue inspect my home is comparable to being investigated by the authorities. I take pride in the home I provide, however I don't report myself to animal welfare to make sure. Heck, an animal welfare investigation would actually be preferable to one from a rescue, because they are bound by the applicable laws and can only act if I have violated those laws.

However I've only seen one adoption contract that actually outlined in detail what they considered to be an approved level of care, and that was the BLM. Most contracts are extremely vague, and allow the rescue FAR too much freedom to repossess the animal based on personal opinion.

Outside of animal cruelty laws, the line between abuse and proper care varies from person to person. There are people who consider bits, or shoes, or stalls, or non-parelli training, or parelli training, or sweet feed, or what-have-you, abusive. No rescue can guarantee me that the person inspecting my home is going to see past differences of opinion when deciding if my care is "good enough", and the adoption contract does not protect me. As an added bonus, most rescues do not reimburse for the sunk cost of caring for their horse should they take it back. With tonnes of needy horses available outside of the rescues, there is absolutely zero incentive for me to deal with them, and a huge amount of incentive NOT to.

I'm well aware that most rescues are reasonable, and as countrylove has stated, most do not fully enforce their contracts. However the point is that if it's in the contract, then it is legally binding. As a diligent, caring owner, I want my full rights and full control - under most adoption contracts I am putting myself in a position where a rescue CAN dictate to me how to care for my animals under the threat of repossession without compensation. Just as these rescues claim they can't trust my word that I am a good owner and need these strings attached to protect the animal, I can't trust that they know what a good owner is and refuse to sign away my ownership of the animal.


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## Joidigm (May 8, 2012)

What originally put me off adoption was my MIL's horses, her rescued STB's. She cannot take any definitive action with her horses, without the approval of the rescue, and that includes vet care and putting the horse down if the situation calls for it. So if her horses had a major accident and were suffering, and putting them down was the only option outside of expensive surgery, she would have to contact the rescue and gain their permission in order to go through with it.

We recently adopted a beautiful purebred dog from a local pound, not humane society based, but city animal services. In the short time that we have had him, we have come to the conclusion that he has been heavily abused (read beaten) by who ever had him before he was recovered. We were looking for a specific breed (German Shepherd Dog), and like our last one, we wanted to go through a rescue or the pound or humane society to find one. Not a problem, it takes time, but they are out there. Man, when I started researching the local GSD rescues.. We did not go through a rescue because we do not have a fenced yard, it was an automatic rejection of adoption request. We provide an excellent home, food, water, comfort, and affection is abound. We meet any and all other wants/needs/requirements. But we don't have a fenced yard. We walk 4 times a day minimum (before work, on lunch, right after work, and before bed), sometimes more just to get out if the weather is nice. If my new pup wasn't so traumatized, we'd be going on hikes too, but he can barely walk out of the yard right now before laying down and turning into a fit of trembling fur. I would have happily gone through a rescue for a sane, loving, well adjusted dog that I would never give up. But they won't adopt out to us. We found our dog though, and we are working on adjusting him to a "normal" life of love and rubs and kisses. **** if I didn't wish he'd be ready to jump in my lap for some snuggles right now though instead of huddling up in a corner. :?

Rescues just are not practical. Won't adopt to certain lack of wants. Won't adopt outside of certain mile radius. Won't adopt to people with lack of veterinary repertoire. It's ridiculous. Have to have certain diets and follow certain rules for non special needs animals. You are even less unsure of what you are getting out of the humane society, city/county services, craigslist, or auction, but at least you own it and have control of it when you go that route.


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## Skunkworks (Oct 22, 2012)

I have to ask, do rescues deny military peeps from adopting? Be kind of hard to pop in for a visit if the person who adopted the animal is now based on the other side of the States.:lol: When I started looking around for my next horse, I briefly looked at rescues but most didn't have the right type of horse. I was also turned off by the phrasing on their adoption forms. Most are writing so that you are just borrowing the horse for an indefinite amount of time and with the them having the option to pop in at any time and take the horse with them when they pop out, made rescues a big no for me. I get extremely territorial about things I consider "mine" and I am not about to invest blood, sweat, and tears into that big of a heart (not to mention money) sink that is a horse without owning them outright.


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

Joidigm said:


> I didn't wish he'd be ready to jump in my lap for some snuggles right now though instead of huddling up in a corner. :?


If you had bought a dog from a reliable breeder, you would have what you really want. 

The dog I have now is a rescue of a sorts. My kids found her in the woods almost starved to death. She is a sweet dog, but she won't come when you call her, won't bark at strangers, chews things up, and is generally not much of a dog. On a good note, she won't hurt cats or chickens. (She is afraid of them.)


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## Breezy2011 (Nov 23, 2012)

countrylove said:


> I work for a rescue and those are some extensive rules. We inspect the property, no barbwire, the potential adopter comes out 3 times to help ensure rider and horse are a good match. We require a signed contract. Breeding is grounds for us to take the horse back with no refund. If you can no longer own the horse for whatever reason the horse comes back to us no refund. Those are the only 2 grounds other than abuse or neglect that we would remove a horse from an adopter. We also offer free help/access to a trainer in the event you come across something you can't handle. We try to up the odds of them staying in a good home. If you move we ask that you let us know where and allow us to check out the new property.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have a question for you... After you have had the horse for a few years, and you need to sell it for finacial issues, can you? or do you have to give it back to the shelter? Or what if you want to breed it, after you have had it for a specific number of years?

Overall, my main question is... Do you have to follow the rules for the whole time you own the horse?

I didn't adopt my horse, I got her from a retired breeder, she is kept in wood fencing for the winter, but when she goes to pasture, that is barbed wire, at her old home, it was just barbed wire all year round.


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## chubbypony (Dec 18, 2012)

MissColors said:


> SOOO!!!! Optimistic news the rescue that has a horse that I actually like has another horse that i like so if i dont get my first choice. Also i talked to the director and she said she doesnt favor high tinsel but she'd probably make an exception for only a horse no foal. Which I'm completely fine with! Do you think I'd be too tall for a 14.3 mare? I'm 5ft9in. I've never ridden anything under 15.1.


It matters your weight and the horses build. I have a narrow 14.3 appy I wont put over 150 on but I have a stocky 14.2 Gypsy cross that my bf friends who are a little over 200 ride..


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## chubbypony (Dec 18, 2012)

I take in horses and find them homes after training ect. I dont take very many in due to lack of space and funds but a few a year. I tell people the truth pretty or not. I state the PA law on owning a horse and thats all i want to make sure you can obtain. I do like to check out the place seeing as Ive seen some horrific places and taken horses away from them. I have first right back to the horse and if they are seriously injured I do want to know if they need to be put down.(I'd like to say good bye to all animals I love) I would like to be contacted and I do check up at times.(email ect.) Its pretty basic. I personally don't advise any of the horses be breed, I dont find them worth breeding and if I did I would label them as so. I dont think its asking much you own the horse I just like to make sure it will never go back to a bad place. 
Over all you know when its a responsible owner who knows what they are talking about. (seems like OP is a very good horse owner and the rescue is willing to work with you) 

We have a pony looking for a new home he is small 13.1 hands. Not the stockyist guy but wouldn't be bad for a med rider. He has a lot of energy and needs an intermediate to advanced rider. I get tons of emails and calls of parents who want him for their children first horse. He is not a first horse type and people get offend when I say it wont be a good fit for your child or him. I even try to explain what a good fit would be but many don't want to hear it. He is now being trained for mounted gaming where I hope to compete him and find him a home doing that since its what he is best at. 

Im not saying all rescues are wonderful but you need to look at all they have to deal with not everyone is a responsible horse owner or we wouldn't need horse rescues. 

To me the end line is if you dont like them then go get an auction horse ect. and save one yourself but don't cut them up. Being negative and hateful will never get you any where.


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## ARTEMISBLOSSOM (Apr 3, 2011)

I think anyone rescuing or trying to rescue an animal has their heart in the right spot and only wants to improve the animals life. I truely admire the dedication and work that goes into running a rescue, and to the people that give their time and love caring for the animals that come to them. I am an animal lover and have had animals for close to 50 years. Every time I have the space for another pet I think of shelters and rescues but I have never gotten an animal from them. I always ended up just buying the animal somewhere else because of the restrictions such places have. I live out in the country on 100 acres, far from busy roads and traffic. I once applied to a boxer rescue when my boxer passed away from old age and I was denied because I didnt have a fenced in yard. I have 100 acres of fields and bush for the dog to play in but I was denied because I didn't have a fenced in yard. Several years later I was able to provide a home for another dog and this time a small dog at a local rescue caught my eye.The dog was older and was not very adoptable because she didnt like children at all and was quite aggressive when it came to her feed dish. This time I was denied because my deck was too high off the ground and a small dog could possibly squeeze between the railing on the deck and jump or fall off and injure herself. Last summer I was looking for another horse.(Still am) I wanted an appaloosa and I found what seemed like the exact type of horse I was looking for on an "equine now" ad. Turns out that horse was from a rescue and I was not physically close enough to them to be considered. They wouldn't even return my calls or emails for several days, finally after sending them several emails a day for almost 2 weeks they sent me an email with the part of their regulations highlighted that said I have to live in the same state. (I must admit I didn't read the application fine print so I didnt see this or I wouldn't have tried to contact them in the first place). I am not a wealthy person and I am sure I don't have the best credit rating but my pets always come first,and they are well cared for. I could have provided a good and forever home for a few animals in need over the years but I never met all the requirments that the rescues demanded, so when I was able to open my home to another pet I bought them from a classified ad or a sale barn. Would I prefer getting a pet from a shelter or a rescue? yes I would but there are just too many rules and regulations. I realize that not all rescues and shelters are the same but these are the experiences I have had over the years with the few that I have contacted. I think more reasonable adoption guidelines are in order and I believe letters of recommendation from your vet, boarding stable, and community should be enough. JMHO


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## sig1946 (Dec 22, 2012)

*Narrow perspective*



BBBCrone said:


> There's a lot of that kind of thing out there with regard to rescues. There is certainly much worse things for fencing than high tensile that's for sure. IMO of course *shrugs* There's even a rescue fairly close to me that won't let you adopt if you aren't a Parelli follower and know "the games" and stuff.


Interesting the narrow criteria imposed that certainly will slow down the entire process. Barbwire and horses have been in harmony for decades longer than most horse experts that decry such things. It appears folks have lost sight of what is the central and important issue, the horse. Not the small organization that sees itself as the white-night hero. Keep life simple.


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## sig1946 (Dec 22, 2012)

*Horse breeders, idividuals or traders*

I have read some, not all of these posts on this thread. I did not find any experiences with horse breeders, individuals or traders as a buying source assessment. A different breed of horse person altogether exists within each category beyond that of adoption folks. It does not appear that in this discussion of adoption or buy there is consideration of buying from an individual, a breeder or a horse trader as one being better than the other.

I also object to the phrase "forever home". It seems to have become a sales pitch than honest intent.

The overall thrust of these comments is the lack of uniformity and quality control existent in other livestock does not surface with horses. There is much to say when it comes to horses it is far more buyer beware than anything else.


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