# Collar or breast strap?



## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

You mean you want a harness like this?








https://www.shipshewanaharness.com/ecommerce/Light-Horse-Driving-Harness-with-Hames.cfm?item_id=1860&parent=555


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## horselovinguy

Any driving I did was with drafts, Percherons or Belgians specifically.
They used collars, and heavy harness for pulling and working hard in harness.

For a light-boned horse...
I know they make them, but for what you plan to drive...
I would not want to put a heavy harness on my finer framed horse...
Yes, I think it overkill.
Meadowbrook carts are a fine harness cart, not a working class.
I think personally it would not match and look "funny".

I think there is a difference in how a horse pushes into a collar versus a breast-strap harness too but not certain.
If you do a collar then I believe you also need a Hames styled harness...for get the "light" look appearance.

I would go with a breast-strap myself as it just is less restrictive because it is lighter and fits the chest and shoulder, not their shoulder like a collar does.
A Dutch Harness horse is a larger boned horse than your saddlebred usually if you look at pictures of both in comparison...larger boned to me allows more hefty a harness to appear well-suited to the animal. 
What kind of cart is that Dutch horse matched with?

I did find you this place...they make harness parts in many sizes and for several breeds but not for your "breed" specifically and fit is so important with a collar. 
When you get to their homepage search for "collar carriage, driving" or go exploring...they have some beautiful and functional harness available.
_https://www.mydrafthorse.com/cfwebs...78120e573-1C2E6E35-08F9-60C8-3FA45A5B27B85640_
:runninghorse2:_*....*_


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## SaddlebredFred

BlindHorseEnthusiast4582 said:


> You mean you want a harness like this?
> 
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> 
> https://www.shipshewanaharness.com/...arness-with-Hames.cfm?item_id=1860&parent=555


Yes!! It looks so nice on that horse


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

Well the link is to the place to order it


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## horselovinguy

With a meadowbrook cart don't you have full shafts though?
You must get a harness that works with what you are going to pull...

I don't know the harness part names well, but with a collar don't you have traces?
The traces are what you hook and hitch to to pull the load...:-?

With a breast strap you have the harness pad and shaft loops or tug to support the cart shaft ....
I think the shaft loop/tug is what secures the horse to cart... :-?

Can you mix the two types of harnesses together? :-?

I know there is a difference in how you hitch up....
:runninghorse2:....


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## BlindHorseEnthusiast4582

I found this diagram of a collar harness with shafts attached, so maybe they can be used together? 










Then here're one of a breastcollar harness. 









Do either look incorrect? I am unfamiliar with harnesses.


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## InexcessiveThings

horselovinguy said:


> With a meadowbrook cart don't you have full shafts though?
> You must get a harness that works with what you are going to pull...


What type of harness you want does largely depend on the vehicle your horse will be pulling. With green horses, you generally start with something two wheeled. Full collars and hames are really typically used with larger, heavier, two-axle vehicles. I think one of these would look funny with a light cart like a meadowbrook or gig. That doesn't go to say a breast collar style harness wouldn't be used to pull something like a doctors buggy, which is still a pretty light vehicle. You can also get hybrid harnesses that are termed "brollar" and are kind of a cross between a breast collar harness and a full collar. Full collars are harder to fit, and they have to fit very well to be comfortable for the horse and serve their purpose for the horse to pull into. With a single horse, you have full shafts on ANY vehicle. Are you thinking of with a team, perhaps? With a pair or more (i.e. unicorn, four-in-hand, etc.) you have a team pole, with a horse on either side, tandem being the exception.



horselovinguy said:


> I don't know the harness part names well, but with a collar don't you have traces?
> The traces are what you hook and hitch to to pull the load...:-?
> 
> With a breast strap you have the harness pad and shaft loops or tug to support the cart shaft ....
> I think the shaft loop/tug is what secures the horse to cart... :-?
> 
> Can you mix the two types of harnesses together? :-?
> 
> I know there is a difference in how you hitch up....


Traces are a must with any kind of harness, since traces are the main piece that the horse pulls with. They can be all one piece with the breast collar or buckle-in, or in the case of a collar and hames, that's what the hames are for; they will typically clip or otherwise attach to the hames. I would expect to see shaft loops with an single harness, since you have full shafts on either side of the horse when driving single. Pair harness is different, in that they don't have them because you don't drive with shafts driving multiples aside from tandem (one horse in front of the other). Tugs are typically separate from the shaft loops, but can be combined with the loops as well, and are what keep the cart shafts from tilting up too far. I would say, you can't exactly mix the two types of harness together. If you want a cross between the two, get a brollar/eurocollar harness. Though you could probably, say, take a full collar, hames, and traces from one harness, and use the breeching and hold-back straps from a breast collar harness and use them together without a problem. 

A full collar will actually give the best shoulder movement, which is why it's used for heavier loads as it is more efficient for pulling heavy weights. A breast collar is easier to fit, and I think is more suited to beginning drivers because of this. Breast collars are also nice in that you can use them with multiple horses, or for a horse that changes shape over the course of a season. I like a shaped breast collar that is designed to give better room for the windpipe.


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## InexcessiveThings

A couple other things I forgot. Yes, you can get collars for lighter horses. You can even get full collars sized for minis! I also would recommend not getting a meadowbrook as a first cart. They are generally hard to get out of in case of emergency since most are rear entry. I don't want to discourage you from ever getting a meadowbrook or something similar, but I highly recommend getting an easy entry cart for training with for quite a while. They are easy to get into and easy to make an emergency dismount if you need to, which is likely to happen in the early days of training while both you and the horse figure things out.


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## horselovinguy

Wow...thanks for the informative post and shared information.
I learned a lot, hope the OP did too and has now some things to think about.

:runninghorse2:....


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## LooneyTickAcres

I live in an area with a large Amish and old order Mennonite communities. They use light breeds, typically Standardbreds, Dutch Harness, Saddlebreds, etc. to pull their four wheeled buggies and most use collar and hames rather than breastcollars. The type of vehicle being pulled shouldnt be the only factor to which style harness you use. Terrain plays another large role. If you are just on pavement or light arena work, breastcolar works fine. If you're on gravel or off road, collar and games is best. Breastcollars can rub a horse raw in nomtime. With padding added to a collar to help cusion weight and soak up sweat, it is much less likely to rub them raw. As far as two or four wheels, Four wheeled vehicles are easier to pull because the weight is distributed evenly on the wheels as opposed to a two wheeled cart that puts the weight on the horses back. 

I should also mention that biothane harnesses are much lighter weight than leather. You can find them with collar and hames or breastcollar styles. A quality harness of either is what counts, and knowing your vehicle and terrain should all help in your decision. I personally prefer collar and hames and use them esclusively with both my standardbred and my percheron. Padding and correct sizing are also key factors. 

Apologies for rambling.. its late. Im happy to clarify if need be. I love driving and have learned a lot about the mechanics and parts of harness from my Amish and mennonite friends.


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## SilverMaple

Also, if you will be using the harness on more than one horse of similar body type, a breastcollar harness can be used on both. A collar harness generally requires each horse to have his/her own collar. Also, a horse's neck can change shape drastically due to time of year, condition, and age--- some will need more than one collar in a short period of time. You can generally take up an inch of collar size with a good pad, but those are rarely seen on light harness horses outside of Amish communities. If you aren't sure how to fit a collar, go with a breastcollar harness to start. If you find you enjoy driving and later need a collar, you can do so at that time and your horse will be conditioned by work and you can then measure accurately and get the best chance of a collar that fits properly. If at all possible, take your horse to a harness shop and have the collar fitted correctly, especially when first learning. 

In the UK, collar/hames harnesses are seen often on light carts of all descriptions, while in the US, the breastcollar is more popular-- most likely because of a lack of harness shops in many areas and the ease of fitting one for occasional use. Will you be showing? If so, the harness must match the cart in terms of style and type. You will not see a collar with a hames in most fine harness classes and the carts and buggies are very specific, and a light harness for the show ring is minimalistic and light duty. If your interests instead lean toward recreational driving outside the show ring, you have more choices and will want a heavier pleasure-type harness and cart. 

I second an easy entry-style training cart to start with. They are inexpensive and easy to get in and out of; much safer when first starting. A meadowbrook style cart is beautiful, but hard to get out of in an emergency and should only ever be used by a broke, safe horse and an experienced driver.

A friend and I share this cart-- we love it! The torsion axles make a difference. You can also get them in wood if you prefer that look. https://workinghorsetack.com/EZ-Entry-Horse-Cart-p/32-1000.htm

I have an Amish-made pleasure buggy harness I bought secondhand at the Waverly sale, she has a biothane harness. Leather or biothane is personal preference. I am a leather person, and for a pleasure harness, the weight difference doesn't concern me and I don't mine oiling it every now and then. She prefers biothane because her maintenance of it is hosing it off, and prefers the lighter weight. For a draft harness, the weight difference is huge. Both of our harnesses are breastcollar style. If we drove more often, I would consider a collar/hames.


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## dogpatch

Selection of full neck collar or breast collar has more to do with angles than loads. Typically, a breast collar will be selected when the "line of draft", i.e. the angle of the traces from the collar to the singletree, is more or less horizontal. The more the singletree angles downward, the more it will increase pressure across the top of the horse's neck, via the neck strap. So for a carriage like a meadowbrook, with the singletree mounted up high, it makes sense to select a breast collar. When selecting a neck collar, it's best if the singletree is mounted low enough on the vehicle for the traces to be at or close to a 90 degree angle to the hames the metal bars that encircle the neck collar. In this position, the neck collar is fully seated down over the length of the shoulder, rather than concentrating weight over any small area of the shoulders. Think about the bars of a saddle distributing weight across a horse's back. If the singletree is mounted up high, with horizontal traces, the weight of the carriage, or the draft, will all be transferred to the area around the horse's throat, leaving the top of the collar flapping around and useless. In some cases, a singletree may be so low (probably more with ground implements), that all the weight will come to bear high on the horse's neck. In either case, a poor match between neck collar and angle of draft may wound the horse's shoulders. So if you fancy a Meadowbrook, your best choice for collar style is a breast collar. If you find a carriage with the singletree mounted low, keep the image of the 90 degree angle between hames/neck collar in mind when selecting your harness style.


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## mollybeamon

hi guys so my advice is if it's a pony a breast strap if it's a horse a collar. It's that simple!! (HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!)


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## AnitaAnne

I prefer the breast collar because it is quite adjustable to different horses. The full neck collar has to be fitted correctly to the horse.

I also like the biothane because taking apart and cleaning & conditioning an entire harness is a real chore. Can spend an evening cleaning one...

Had a leather trace break one time and was lucky the horse and I were not seriously injured.

Agree with the others that the simple two wheel cart is a better first choice. Being able to enter and exit quickly is very important with a green driving horse.


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