# ISO Hunter prospect, Please critique



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

I like the first one a lot, but find it odd that her temperament is a 1/10 !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> I like the first one a lot, but find it odd that her temperament is a 1/10 !
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really like her too! I think owners put low numbers to convey an easy-going temperament lol but I think it's silly. I am only concerned that they said she had a knee injury. They didn't specify whether it impairs her potential, so I emailed them.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Not a fan of this mare's shoulder, but she has decent bone, a nice neck and good pasterns:









Prom Queen – Thoroughbred Placement Resources


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I like this guy, though his front feet seem to toe in a bit and he's quite downhill..


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

The first mare has found a home! 

I meant to post this guy's pics but they didn't show up. She said he's built like a QH and regarding some aspects, I'd agree with that. I can't tell if he's cow hocked, possibly toed in, and downhill. Upright shoulder. But decent substance for a thoroughbred.


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

In the pictures available, the first mare is definitely presented the best. She is well put together and is an appropriate type for the hunters. Her ad mentioned videos, but I was unable to find those. Seeing these horses go is going to be one of the most important parts in choosing a hunter prospect. 

The second mare is not presented very well, she's leaning over her shoulder pretty markedly. I think she's quite well put together, although perhaps has a little more slope to her croup than I find ideal? It's hard to say definitively with her leaning forward like that. 

The third mare's point of shoulder is lower than ideal in a hunter and I find her neck to be a little straighter than ideal which makes her look less type-y. Id also want to investigate what they mean by her ankles "pinching" and how that would impact a sport career. 

The fourth gelding is very straight through his hind legs, which would concern me that it would limit scope. He is also a bit downhill. 

Of this group, the first two mares are the ones I would follow up on. Seeing them move is crucial, and if you're able to have them hope over a small jump, that would be ideal. 

What level hunters are you looking to compete at? Also what area and what kind of budget?


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

KWPNowner said:


> In the pictures available, the first mare is definitely presented the best. She is well put together and is an appropriate type for the hunters. Her ad mentioned videos, but I was unable to find those. Seeing these horses go is going to be one of the most important parts in choosing a hunter prospect.
> 
> The second mare is not presented very well, she's leaning over her shoulder pretty markedly. I think she's quite well put together, although perhaps has a little more slope to her croup than I find ideal? It's hard to say definitively with her leaning forward like that.
> 
> ...


I'm not super competitive anymore but would like a horse to be able to do 2'6" at least, probably never higher than 3'. I don't want to spend over 2k. Would like to go foxhunting, I like dressage a lot so would definitely school that if not show. I also really like trail riding and would do that in between serious riding. 

I kinda like this guy, but not sure he'd be suitable for jumping lol She didn't give me good pictures, but there's nothing glaringly wrong about him (at least to my eyes) but I also think he's kinda cute and may not be able to see what's wrong..

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1uHuFiEIxx7T09ZZjR3Vmw3NkE/view


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

Your criteria for what you want the horse to do opens your options up a little bit.  an honest horse with changes and an average jump and movement should be able to be pretty competitive at local and schooling shows. The 2'6 divisons at rated shows will require a fancier horse, but even there, quiet and reliable, with decent movement and jump, goes a long way. 

Your most recent horse does have a very sweet face, but his hind end would discourage me from looking at him as a hunter. His croup is very steep and he's quite straight through his back legs. Additionally his stifle is quite high set which in my experience limits scope. I also think his pasterns, while a fine length, are a little over-ambulated. He looks free enough in his walk, but even at that gait I think he has more knee action than ideal in a hunter, and that should be more pronounced at the trot and canter. 

Are you looking for a fancier project, or for something that is ready to go show, but perhaps a little less fancy?


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Fancy certainly wouldn't hurt, I'm looking as young as 2 and as old as 6. I think that I'd like to be able to train them up and sell them to a more competitive show home if they show a lot of potential. I don't want to look around too far because of shipping expenses (I live in Rockville so I'm looking within 200 miles).


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

I understand wanting to minimize shipping costs! I did a quick search of horses who I think are in your area (hey, slow day at work  ), and came across a cute gelding who's breeding I love. 

http://www.serenityfarmberks.com/#!sale-horses--ponies/cixq

The horse called "Awesome Lion" on that page is good looking, a good age and height, and he's out of a Meadowlake mare. I've known a couple of Meadowlake horses that were good jumpers. I had an adult hunter who was competitive at AA shows who was by Meadowlake. She was a great mover and a really nice made to be around. She even looked a bit like this gelding.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Oh he is cute!!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I was contacted about this boy and I really like him! I may just go see him..
His pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/happiendo


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## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

Just found your thread, but I like him the best!


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

The new bay looks nice! Well put together and a good type for a hunter. I'd definitely go see him in person!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm a bit bummed.. She said a few people are going to see him tomorrow and this weekend but I wouldn't be able to see him til February because distance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The first mare is the nicest of all of them IMO BUT she is a bit tied in at the knee. Have a vet really look at her front legs and tendons. X ray this one. 

The Chestnut is pretty nice too, but as noted perhaps straight behind. 

The last one, the bay, is the best of the lot. Nice low knees and hocks and the knees and the hocks are nearly the same distance from the ground, so he will ride more uphill and be easier to get working on his rear end. He may be a bit over at the knee, but that is not as concerning as back at the knee.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I REALLY like that last one so I really hope he doesn't get sold before I have a chance to go see him. This grey is another one she has, a year older at 5 years old and a bit taller at 16.1hh. Don't like him as much as the bay, though.


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## Dustyisace (Dec 11, 2014)

They both look like two very honest ponies! Go with what you feel like  x


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

The grey is a good looking horse too. A bit more angle to his hocks than ideal, I like the bay's hind end more, but that grey would certainly be worth seeing. Additionally, taller is never a bad thing when looking for an eventual re-sale horse.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

@KWPNowner
She also has this one.. Again I feel like there's something about his back end but I'm not keen enough to tell what.


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

I think you have a good eye! Even if you don't have all the technical terms, if I were you, I'd trust my eye to pick a good looking horse. 

I agree that this last bay's hind end isn't ideal. To my eye, it looks like his femur is shorter than ideal which is setting his stifle back too far and resulting in slightly over angular end hocks. I think his shoulder looks great, but would ideally like his front legs set back just a hair. He may perhaps look a bit better from another angle, I do like parts of him, but I agree his hind end doesn't look idea here. If you're going to this woman's farm though, look at them all! See them move and jump if you can.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Do you think her conformation would inhibit her? These three are the best from what she sent me so I just want to prepare if the bay gelding gets sold before I can grab him. The grey is more expensive but not sure why.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

That last bay stands like she has rear end pain. She is even holding her back such that she looks a bit roached. I would not buy that bay if that is how she looks in person. The grey is down hill. His knees are a lot closer to the ground than his hocks. He is short lengthed and I will bet her forges at the trot. I like the bay above my comment much better.


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

to my eye, the last bay's hind end conformation looks like it would probably limit her power from behind and his scope, although not to the extent that he couldn't jump around 2'6". To my eye, how he's standing just looks like the angle of the picture and probably a shorter than ideal femur, but you'd probably want to vet check anything you buy anyway.  

i think that pictures are useful in helping you narrow down the field - some horses are clearly not suitable from a couple pictures - but ultimately you'll want to see them move, and ideally jump, before making a decision. As much as conformation informs movement and jump, I don't think you can tell everything from a couple static pictures. I got my AO jumper (1.20m - 1.40m) as a three year old and he did not take great pictures back then!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Still looking around (just in case I can't land that bay boy). I found a solid chestnut mare, five years old 16.1hh. I asked for conformation pictures, these are the only one she had immediately.


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

The chestnut mare's knees look weak to me.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I like this mare... She's only 3 and looks really nice already..


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

The chestnut's front end looks nice in those pictures. Good shoulder angle, nice neck attachment and nice shape. might be a little long in the back, but hard to really say in those photos. She's a good looking horse though and that immediate appeal is nice in a hunter. I'd at least get some video/real conformation pics of that one.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

KWPNowner said:


> The chestnut's front end looks nice in those pictures. Good shoulder angle, nice neck attachment and nice shape. might be a little long in the back, but hard to really say in those photos. She's a good looking horse though and that immediate appeal is nice in a hunter. I'd at least get some video/real conformation pics of that one.


Yea there is definitely something I like about her. I also have a fondness for solid colored horses (horses with no white) in the hunter ring.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

The Chestnut is wasp waisted. Looks good in those photos but I am guessing she may be down hill and rear end light.
The Palomino is steep shouldered. Like that horse a LOT but not for hunters.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

(Regarding the palomino) But what about hunters for a kid? Cause I wouldn't mind getting a horse to train and sell. They said she has a good attitude and could eventually be a kid's horse. 

Again, my ideal buy would be Bay gelding #1!! haha


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

Honestly, a competitive hunter for a kid is the same as a competitive hunter for an adult. If it won't win in the Adults, it won't win in the Children's. For something like a Short Stirrup horse, you don't need super fancy, just very safe and knows its job, but with how many miles you want on that type of horse or pony, im not sure it would be very financially rewarding to get one as a resale project. 

The palomino looks a lot more stock type to me. Shoulder and croup are steeper than ideal and she looks a bit straight through her hocks, although I like the depth of stifle. I'm guessing this horse won't move super well for the hunter ring. She also may be a bit shorter than ideal and short is a tough resell.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Sorry to keep posting horses, but you all are so helpful and I'd like to keep my options open in case my #1 falls through.. Does this horse look upright in the shoulder and roached back or is it me? would he be inhibited? I like that they have clean xrays on file.


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm always happy to look horses over and offer an opinion! I've started and campaigned several horses successfully on the A/AA circuit and l love looking at prospects. 

I agree with your assessment that this most recent horse has a very upright shoulder. He does appear to have something of a roach in his back and his hip looks a little short. I don't think he'll have the movement for a hunter and I wouldn't expect him to have a ton of scope. If you have any video of any of these though, that's super useful, seeing them move is so valuable in choosing a hunter.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I REALLY Like this mare! She's a bit upright in the shoulder, but cute! They said she's really quiet and brave and could make a good field hunter. And look at the seahorse on her forehead!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Got a side view of the chestnut mare and I like her!


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

I think the chestnut looks better in motion, in that photo I don't love hr hind end, her stifle is a little high and she's maybe a little camped out. Her shoulder also look a little steep, but the angle is open, which would probably still allow her to use her front end nicely over fences. She looks maybe a little over at the knee, or possibly was just about to move that leg in the photo. I dont think there's anything that would stop her from being perfectly fine as a lower level hunter, but compared with an ideal, those would be the complaints id have.


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

I took a moment to look through all the horses you posted here, to get an overall impression of them. I think since confirmation critiques (mine included) often focus on what is less than ideal in the horses it gives them impression that the horses are less capable than they probably are. So, I went through them just to note which ones I though would be worth pursuing to do a 2'6" hunter job. 

Most of the horses you posted here would be fine for that job, based on the pictures. Of course, seeing them move and jump and how they vet will be much more important than how they look in a couple photos. I thought I'd give my thoughts on which of these I would pursue and which I would follow up with, just to help you start to narrow down the field. 

I think the second mare you posted in post 1 looked nice, although it was hard to tell a lot because she wasn't set up very well. But she has a nice neck and an open shoulder. I'd follow up on this one. The first mare was also very cute but you said she was sold. 

The mare in post 4 raised a couple more concerns for me - her shoulder looked a little closed and upright and her neck was quite straight, not as nicely shaped as some others. With that mare I think the biggest concern would be the "pinching" ankles that her sellers reported. This is probably one I would pass on based on the photo and info given. 

The gelding in post 6 was cute except his hind legs were very straight. Every horse has some flaws, but the straightness of his hind legs would suggest to me that his jungling ability would be limited. I'd probably pass on this one too. 

Post 8 you had a cute paint horse, who looked sweet, but not a hunter type. He's a bit downhill and I don't like him hind end for a hunter. I would pass on this one as well. 

Post 13 had a very nice bay gelding, I think you said this one is your first choice right now, but he does have other buyers interested. There isn't much I'd pick on about him, maybe a little ties in behind the knee, but super cute and a nice type. I'd definitely pursue this one. 

Post 18 you had a grey gelding at the same farm as the bay before, and this was also a good looking horse. Maybe a touch downhill and a little more than ideal angle to the hocks, but nice neck and shoulder and if you're going to his farm, definitely worth seeing in person. 

post 21 was another bay gelding, who I think you said is also at the same farm as the previous too. The angle of his photo I think made him look a little worse than I bet what he really looks like, but in the photo, he looked like his femur may be shorter than ideal, and his hock a little over angulated. Still worth looking at if you'll be at his farm. 

Post 26 and 37 have the same chestnut mare, and she is a little straight behind, stifle a little higher than I like to see and shoulder a bit upright, although open. She's not my favorite, but could be worth getting a video to see how she moves. The photos of her trotting look attractive. 

Post 28 has a palomino who looks very sweet but not a hunter type to me. Shoulder is a bit upright, croup a little too steep, high set stifle and her neck ties in a little low. I would also pass on this one for a hunter. 

The horse in post 34 has some aspects that make him not my favorite. His shoulder is a bit upright, although the angle is open, his back seems to have a bit of a roach in it, and his hip is a little short. He's got some good characteristics as well, but he wouldn't be at the top of my list. 

Post 36 has a bay mare who I probably wouldn't drive to see her in person without checking out her movement on video first. She's a bit downhill and her hocks have a bit too much angle. Her neck ties in a little low as well. I expect she will be able to do the job of a 2'6 hunter but her conformation isn't my favorite in this group, so I'd want to see her move first. 

Keep posting horses as they come up! Just thought it might be helpful to see them all compared to each other.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVzY3h90GgM&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2kTDgpyIJE&feature=youtu.be


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Got some pictures without tack


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

I think this guy is cute and well put together. If I was going to be picky, id say that his neck ties in a little lower than ideal, but considering the ideal hunter carriage, that won't hinder him. He reminds me a lot of a successful hunter I had in the past, so I may be a little biased.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

And the lady who owns Happy (aka #1 bay gelding) also send me this dude with a video. Not the best pic, but with all the snow we got in the East, this was the best she got.








http://orig05.deviantart.net/e4d7/f/2016/027/7/1/video_1452703765_mp4__1__by_wideturn-d9pkndy.mp4


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Also a friend said that Happy has a hunter's bump which could mean kissing spine? I've never heard that before, what do you all think?


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

The new guy looks pretty cute! Maybe a little more slope to his hip than idea, and slightly longer through the loin, but his neck and shoulder looks nice and legs looks clean from what I can see. His movement looks pretty average in the video, but he does look a little tense and stiff, so it could likely be improved upon a bit. He's got a little more knee action than I'd want if I wanted the hack winner, but he's not a bad mover, just sort of average. 

I haven't heard of a hunters bump being caused by kissing spine, I would actually find that fairly unlikely considering that it's trauma to the sacroiliac joint that causes a hunters bump. A hunters bump could indicate some ongoing pain, however they also exist in cases of past trauma that have since resolved and don't cause any ongoing issues. Any on-going issues would turn up in a PPE. You could certainly ask the vet about kissing spine, but that's not an associate I'm aware of.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Going to meet Happy on saturday!! I got some videos of him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRSp4Xpa8Ag&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSiQ2L78d0M&feature=youtu.be


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Opinions?


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

He's not a fabulous mover, but I like his canter better than his trot, which is good, because you can do more to improve a trot. He won't ever be the hack winner at a big show, but I expect if you get his to relax and loosen up his trot will improve some. 

I loved that he has changes already! Those looked easy and consistent. Super awesome to already have in a prospect. He looks pleasant to ride as well. 

Let us know how he is in person and good luck!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

So I went and saw Happy, but he's a bit shorter than she said.. He was a sweet boy but it just wasn't "the one". I tried a few others, didn't like them, but the last one I loved! I only have this picture to share right now, but she was a sweetie.


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

The grey mare looks like she's got some good attributes in the picture! Her shoulder and neck look really nice.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

Are you doing a ppe then ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

gypsygirl said:


> Are you doing a ppe then ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I will do a PPE on any horse I decide to take on trial or buy. I am waiting to see what my trainer says about the grey mare, she's away at a hunt ball for the weekend so she might take a while to reply. 

Here's the video of the grey mare, plus the little bay gelding. Disregard my talking! I tend to talk a lot to horses when I ride haha

http://orig15.deviantart.net/ab59/f/2016/038/6/e/video_1454801473_by_wideturn-d9qv118.mp4

http://orig05.deviantart.net/521a/f/2016/038/c/0/video_1454802287_by_wideturn-d9qv12y.mp4


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

I like the grey honestly


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Me too. The lady is trying to push the bay more, but I know my trainer will like the grey better.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

I didn't like the bay and I love bays! Something just doesn't seem right I don't know.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

He's pretty short strided. She said he was 15.3hh, but he looked smaller to me. And I'm 5'4" so idk if that shows his height by comparison at all. The grey is easily over 16hh.


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## Rainaisabelle (Jan 2, 2015)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> He's pretty short strided. She said he was 15.3hh, but he looked smaller to me. And I'm 5'4" so idk if that shows his height by comparison at all. The grey is easily over 16hh.


Mm that could be it but it was just his way of going around even with the short stride


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

The grey moves better than the bay for sure, the bay's knee action is unappealing as a hunter. Can the grey open her stride up more? I'd have some concern about her getting down the lines, she doesn't look like she has a huge step. Is she showing or jumping at all? I'd want to see that she could do the numbers. She's a decent mover she just looks a little shorter strides than ideal in that video. She is looking along though and might do the numbers fine with a little more pace.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

we are going to free jump her while on trial and see how she does. I had her a bit more collected than I should've because she was a bit fresh and I'm coming back from a broken ankle and am a bit nervous about my ability to hold on! Haha
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

Oh perfect, if you can see her over fences, that will tell you what you need to know.  she looks like a sweet girl!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

http://orig13.deviantart.net/7b94/f/2016/039/3/f/video_1454801547_by_wideturn-d9qzxay.mp4

here's trotting


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> http://orig13.deviantart.net/7b94/f/2016/039/3/f/video_1454801547_by_wideturn-d9qzxay.mp4
> 
> here's trotting


And here are some conformation pictures.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

bump? She's getting her PPE saturday


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

I think she's cute! I think she'll move better when she's relaxed and stretching out a little more. You said she was a little up when you rode her and I can see that. I think she'll hack pretty well once you address that tenseness under saddle. 

I like her hindend and her legs look clean. Her feet look like they also need to be done, which maybe be hindering her movement a little. If I was going to criticize if say her pasterns are a little upright and her point of shoulder is a little low. Maaaaybe toes out a little but her feet are quite long so I would t say that for sure. Her neck also ties in a little low, but a tendency to carry herself more level isn't bad in a hunter.

Good luck with the PPE!


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

Actually watching the video again, I think you're going to have a really cute mover on your hands once she's more relaxed under saddle. I think she could be a perfect fit for what you want.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Miss Grey Mare did not pass, but I think it's for the best! My trainer's boyfriend told me he had a horse I could take for FREE. He's 8 years old, 16.2hh, off track a while but not restarted really yet. He said he's had some others he's been focused on and after realizing how long he's sat, figured I could use him. His name is "Friendly Bob" but obviously I want to change that. He's super cute though!  I'm gonna start working with him Monday!


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## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

That's awesome. He looks like a nice horse. Will your trainer be helping you getting him restarted?


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

Tihannah said:


> That's awesome. He looks like a nice horse. Will your trainer be helping you getting him restarted?


Yes, I work with her so she's gonna help me train him up, and if/when I want to sell him, she'll help me market him.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

That's great !
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I renamed him William. Rode him a bit and he was awesome!!


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

He looks cute from the pictures you posted! Good looking guy. 

Good luck with him, that sounds like s great deal!


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## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

Sweet William! What a great experience for you!


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

From today


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## KWPNowner (Sep 25, 2012)

He looks darling! What a great opportunity!


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