# Snickers, the noodle-legged pinto



## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

So, I have decided to start this thread, in place of the previous one....Snickers and the mysterious hind-end saga. I've enjoyed posting many of her recent accomplishments, and found it no longer should remain under the topic of 'horse health'.

She has a hind-end issue, not yet firmly diagnosed. Lots of guesses. She is being treated for EPSM with diet and exercise. She tested neg for Type I, but is not out of the woods for Type II. However, before I have subject her to a muscle biopsy to rule that out, I decided to start with the diet and exercise treatment, as recommended by Dr. Beth Valentine, DVM, PHD.

Her problem has limited her, but now she has improved. I continue on this journey with my wonderful stock pinto, because I believe in her for what she does offer, even if it is not perfection in some peoples' eyes. Despite her dysfunction, she is one remarkable horse.

So, I will start this journal with where I ended my last thread....with a picture of her showing her resiliance in preparation for doing her first parade, when she just turned four a week ago.


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## oobiedoo (Apr 28, 2012)

What a beautiful girl. Wishing you and her the best.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Today I rode Snickers with a huge human flag team flag. It was quite windy out today so it was perfect. I also had a 5 gallon jug on a rope that I pulled behind us. Not a care in the world. Tomorrow I will add a tarp to our ride.

I have also been riding Snickers at the trot for extended periods and even asking her to hold the trot where there is an incline, both up and down. After getting over my initial fear of 'her noodle legs are going to give out and we are going to fall', she actually carried me very well and kept on going!

While progress has been more subtle lately, I continue to see her using her legs differently while running off on her own with a new confidence in herself. I'm very happy.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Rode Snickers today with the scary stuff and included a tarp....she was a nutcase!!....(kidding)....couldn't ask for a better girl. She started picking everything up with her teeth and flinging it around. Parades here we come!!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)




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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

That's awesome!!!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I love Snickers! She reminds me SO much of my Aires.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Forgot....after our spooking lesson...I rode Snickers around the ranch on the inclines again. This time, instead of slowing her to a walk from a trot at all on those areas, I kept her going! She did great, her little noodles didn't give out like I thought they would and she kept going without hesitation.

I also has to be a firm mother today. Many of times, I have given into her when she wants to slow down to a walk because I always feel like she is handicapped and needs a rest. Well, with as well as she has been doing, I decided to give that excuse up today....and instead of 'begging' her to go forward after my 'ask' cue....I 'told' her to keep going forward with a pop of the crop behind my leg. She listened and didn't try to slow again unless asked. And wouldn't you know????.....when I had to pop her with the crop, she survived the whole event...lol.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I love Snickers! She reminds me SO much of my Aires.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know! And it's so funny how they are the same age....Aires is two hands higher though...lol.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Oldhorselady said:


> I know! And it's so funny how they are the same age....Aires is two hands higher though...lol.


Lol. True. She looks taller than 14hh. Are you short?

Is Snickers already 4? Aires will be 4 on May 7th. I can't believe I've had him two years already!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Lol. True. She looks taller than 14hh. Are you short?
> 
> Is Snickers already 4? Aires will be 4 on May 7th. I can't believe I've had him two years already!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She turned 4 on 4/15th. She is only 14.1hh and I am 5'2". She has a very solid build...I never feel large on her.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Glad I caught up with your new thread
Isnt she wonderful - hope you did some video of that tarp thing


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> Glad I caught up with your new thread.
> Isnt she wonderful - hope you did some video of that tarp thing


Of course I got a video...lol! I had to do it myself while riding because my daughter, who took the pics, thought it was too dumb to take a video too. Teenagers.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Walked Snickers to parade practice with her 'gear' on.....her tarp, flag, plastic bags, 5 gallon oil jug and windmill all attached to her to carry about a mile down the road to the other ranch. We also walked around a roadside tack sale on the way. Not one spook. Everyone at parade practice is quite impressed with her. First parade is in three weeks!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I lunged Snickers today so I could see her legs in transitions. Her trot looks the same pretty much. It's in her canter that I am seeing much improvement! She is holding it without the evil faces. And, when she downward transitions to trot, it is really starting to look smoother. Every so often there is a little hiccup....but for the most part it really looks good. She is even running around the pasture more by herself without hesitation. Video soon!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

OK!! I think this is a pretty good video. Not lunging, just trotting and cantering freely in the arena. I'm really impressed with the same.....smoother trot and transitions downward from canter. Not perfect, but she is no longer getting tripped up.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She does look to be moving a lot better - it does seem as if she's now getting control of her back end as it looked sort of disunited before
Have to mention that both horses look fantastic - so shiny - all the extra oils must be benefiting their coats too
Have you noticed any increase in weight - they don't look overweight but just wondered


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

Subbing -congrats on your progress.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> She does look to be moving a lot better - it does seem as if she's now getting control of her back end as it looked sort of disunited before
> Have to mention that both horses look fantastic - so shiny - all the extra oils must be benefiting their coats too
> Have you noticed any increase in weight - they don't look overweight but just wondered


No increase in weight anyways...that's good. I am still working on getting them both to lose some weight. They have lost some. They are not as spongy in the ribs. I can feel them now and the outline of muscle that runs down the flanks??? Not sure what it is called. Before there was a little more padding there. Their hay has been cut waaaaay back, without worries, because many of times they still have some remaining in their bin, so they are not starving. They get pasture while I'm out there too. So, we keep chipping forward little by little.

I also noticed that when I hand walk her up and down some inclines, she doesn't seem to be knuckling over on those hinds like before either..yay!!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

flytobecat said:


> Subbing -congrats on your progress.


Thank you....I am very excited for my horse! She seems to have a new confidence now.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Here is an email from Dr. Valentine this morning:

Hi Lisa. Thanks for sharing all the great video news. I absolutely agree Snickers is looking much better. Since it is still early days she should be able to continue to improve for months. I look forward to following her progress!

Beth V


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Oh, one more thing.....I have seen her to flying lead changes on her own now too! NEVER would do that before...she would get tripped up and buck and have tantrums it seemed. It was like she was frustrated with her body. She uses both leads at the canter...before it was mostly the right lead.:lol:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

So, I had a blast today with Snickers. My daughter and her boyfriend came out to the ranch today for a cookout. We decided to take her dog for a walk on a trail and I decided to take Snickers with. I wanted to share these pictures and video showing just how aloof she is. I let her lead herself ahead of me, so I could see how she would handle the situation. She is a perfect horsie partner. She loved the dog and wanted to keep up with him So funny.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)




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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, Snickers is pretty amazing, I must say. Today was her second lesson riding at liberty with only a string on her neck. The first lesson was in the arena and today for the second lesson, we rode around the ranch. Good little pony.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

:clap::thumbsup:Sooooo good to see


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> :clap::thumbsup:Sooooo good to see


Thanks Desert....I'm having a great time with her!!!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Rode Snickers at liberty again with the string. I have found that it is REALLY helping ME! I've become so comfortable riding this way with my seat and balance. I have also figured out that what I thought was 'sitting up straight' really wasn't at all before. It is also helping me not brace with the reins if I am off balance or scared. I didn't even realize I did it before. I feel in more control holding the string with one hand and figuring it out, than I did before letting go of the reins to hold onto the saddle during those times of fear. It's like now that I'm forced to give up that control, it's easier!

I think it is helping in teaching neck reining too. There are no distractions other than the pressure of the string on the neck and my leg/seat. It's going very well. So relaxing and like another type of, I'm gonna say it.....'bonding' experience.

Also noted Snickers running around in the pasture....absolutely none of the legs getting twisted up during canter or downward transitions...just a little popping in that right hind....maybe that is now the locking stifle part?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You know, thinking about locking stifle as one of the symptoms.....makes sense...a weak muscle cannot really keep the ligaments tight......now that she's gaining strength, it'll go away soon. 
You just keep riding.....


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

So I thought I'd share these two short videos. They are just of Snickers running around being silly. But you can in a couple spots where she slows from the canter to the trot and her legs are not all twisted up and/or bunny hopping. Like I said, she still has to seem like a little bit of a stifle lock up at times, but that's soooooo much better than her falling down and not being able to untangle her legs to function! As you can see, I have no problems with her wanting to run and play now.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Cantered a few strides in both directions, under saddle, on the Snickerdoo today!!!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

That's awesome!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

:clap::happydance:Yeahhhhhh
We need video....;-)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> :clap::happydance:Yeahhhhhh
> We need video....;-)


 
Video will come eventually....we are not yet videogenic...lol.

However, today was good....she cantered 2-3 strides several times in the arena! Can't tell if she was anticipating the canter or being a brat when I would ask for the trot and she would instead do the hop like she was going to canter. We were both exhausted by the end of it all. I'm sure it was comical. But it was very successful.

I lunged her just on a lunge line in the arena with her tack on before riding just to remind her of the verbal cues. She was wonderfully smooth between transitions...so awesome.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

She's getting eager to work that's why she's anticipating now. It's up to you now to dose the aids accordingly. 
Nice feeling, isn't it?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Great progress
I'll forgive you the videos as it takes a really brave person to post anything of themselves riding. I don't know why but the moment someone aims a camera at me it all falls apart and I end up looking like a demented thing with arms and legs that all grow at the wrong angles


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You're sooooo right, jaydee;-)
Im okay as long as I don't know im being taped.......


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I tried to video my husband last night so he could see for himself what he was doing right and wrong and he threatened to throw the camera in the river - me with it I think if I'd argued!!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I repeat my above statement...;-)
But then again......fishfood....naaaawwww....


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> Great progress
> I'll forgive you the videos as it takes a really brave person to post anything of themselves riding. I don't know why but the moment someone aims a camera at me it all falls apart and I end up looking like a demented thing with arms and legs that all grow at the wrong angles


Once I think that I'm not a complete failure with my riding I'd be glad to post some. In her past 'being ridden' video I used my daughter..lol.

However, I am feeling much more confident in my riding now, though it may never be perfect. I guess once I at least make it past the 'that poor horse' phase of riding skill, I will be fine with video.

I do plan on taking some more lessons. There are two more trainers at our ranch besides the one that I took my first four lessons from. I'm told they won't throw so much at me at once. I start working next week and want to get that routine going and paycheck. Plus one of them is out of town until mid June. So, that is the goal.

Just saying that I had successful first attempts is good for me.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, a little minor setback today....

No riding today, but played in the arena with the ball today. I did notice a little bit of the locking up at the canter today. Maybe she is sore from trying to ride at the canter yesterday? Not major, I was just a little taken back.

So, she will have off tomorrow and Friday. Friday is beauty day for the parade Saturday. So, she can have a little breather until then.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Our Willow came in very hind leg stiff last night after months of being totally sound and full of 'go' and was coming back into work really well. 
I've put her out for a few hours this morning but not sure if this is going to be a repeat of last summer.
Hope Snickers is OK


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> Our Willow came in very hind leg stiff last night after months of being totally sound and full of 'go' and was coming back into work really well.
> I've put her out for a few hours this morning but not sure if this is going to be a repeat of last summer.
> Hope Snickers is OK


Poor baby...she's a beautiful girl. What lameness issues have you been dealing with? Hope she feels better too.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Last year she went from normal to totally seized up in pain in what seemed like a few hours. Our first thought was laminitis but that proved wrong, she had tests for cushings and IRS but they only came up with a low thyroid condition which she's on permanent meds for, she had a slightly elevated Lymes count so was treated with antibiotics but that made no difference. She was tested for EPSM gene but that was negative. 
We had her on box rest for a while and it seemed to go as suddenly as it came.
Her diet etc hadn't changed at all so couldn't really blame it on that
Its why I was interested on your high fat diet and I'm trying it with her & Flo who has poor muscle (related to IRS I think)
I'm hoping that maybe she's just been kicked by one of the others or maybe twisted herself awkwardly trying to avoid being kicked as they do pick on her as the one leg does look slightly puffy this morning
Its a pain as she's our steady girl and being a really good role model for Jazzie on the trails who still finds it far too exciting, she just ignores her where the other idiots would join in


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Sorry Jaydee.....I do know how hard it is when you want to do nothing more than help them, but just can't figure the mystery out. Very frustrating. I hope it's just temporary for you.

I did learn today, something positive about Snicker's trying to canter under saddle the other day.....one of my friends at the ranch saw the hopping she was doing going into the canter and she said it did not look like resistance or sassyness....just her trying to figure the whole thing out and get her body going. So, I'm happy to hear that.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> Sorry Jaydee.....I do know how hard it is when you want to do nothing more than help them, but just can't figure the mystery out. Very frustrating. I hope it's just temporary for you.
> 
> I did learn today, something positive about Snicker's trying to canter under saddle the other day.....one of my friends at the ranch saw the hopping she was doing going into the canter and she said it did not look like resistance or sassyness....just her trying to figure the whole thing out and get her body going. So, I'm happy to hear that.


 The vets given us banamine to ease her - more because we were worried that she might lie down and struggle to get back up - and advised to keep her in for a couple of days and then gradually increase turn out again just in case it is a reaction to the grass suddenly growing though you'd have thought at her age she'd have experienced it before. She's quite happy to be in as she enjoys feeling 'special' and getting regular visits from me!!
The way you describe Snickers and the canter isn't unlike a milder version of what Looby does at this time of year - and when I first had her - to being asked to canter in a ring again rather than just in a straight line. Her legs also seem to get in a muddle and she's changing legs, getting all wound up and usually ends up having a bit of a broncing fit.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Yeah, it does sound familiar in the way you described Looby. Before this journey started, that's what Snickers would do....get all tangled at the canter in a circle and end of bronco bucking like she was trying to get herself straight...lol. It was as if she was upset at her own body not moving correctly. Would made it funny is she is so far from a bronco bucker personality wise.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Same with Looby - she's more on the lazy if she can get away with it side of things. Her spook and bolt off stuff when I first had her was more of a knee jerk panic reaction than her being a fizzy forward type. Her first trail ride she was shaking all over and I'm never sure if it was fear or excitement at a big wide open space
Its funny how they are as Flo who has always been a hot ride is totally fearless and goes at life head on


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Today I cantered Snickers under saddle again.....you know, I'm going to STOP saying canter and now start using western terms with her, jog and lope....because there is no canter in her and probably never will be...lol. I confirmed that today when asking for the lope. She looks like one of those western pleasure horses doing the lope in place almost. Total rocking horse motion, but at the speed of the walk. I've also been told in the past, that she has a western jog to die for since you can sit it since it's smooth as butter.

Now, I have to figure out how to get her to move more forward....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Practice. She'll eventually get comfortable enough loping to find the strength for canter.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Soooooo....today was parade day. I had no idea what to expect. The staging area was CRAZY! We had to go through crowds, animals and obstacles. Floats, fire trucks, military vehicles, tons of other horses, flags, tractors, loud noises and a gazillion kids with noisemakers and pinwheels. There was no.....horses coming through, watch out.....it was more like pushing through all the chaos like the mounted police during crowd control.

Once we made it through the main chaos to the front area to line up I got so teary-eyed....because Snickers was so easy peasy!!!! I was so proud of her. Not one single spook.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

There's gotta be a "Super-uber-like" somewhere....


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Fabulous to hear! And I LOVE your parade get up  Snickers looks incredible!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Today I rode Snickers in the arena for a little bit to try out a saddle. At first she would try to lope just when I asked for trot. I let her try what she wanted since I was told to never keep a green horse from moving forward. But, after a few times of this....and I asked for the jog, she just went into the jog. So, hopefully she is figuring it out.

When I asked for the lope, she did a few strides, and then stayed in the jog like I wanted. Before she would halt from the lope, so that is so much better. It also seemed that her speed picked up a little bit, rather than her doing the lope at a walk pace...lol.

So, I guess a little at a time and we are going in the right direction?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

oldhorselady said:


> today i rode snickers in the arena for a little bit to try out a saddle. At first she would try to lope just when i asked for trot. I let her try what she wanted since i was told to never keep a green horse from moving forward. But, after a few times of this....and i asked for the jog, she just went into the jog. So, hopefully she is figuring it out.
> 
> When i asked for the lope, she did a few strides, and then stayed in the jog like i wanted. Before she would halt from the lope, so that is so much better. It also seemed that her speed picked up a little bit, rather than her doing the lope at a walk pace...lol.
> 
> So, i guess a little at a time and we are going in the right direction?


ohhh yesssssss


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> ohhh yesssssss


So Desert, do you think this is normal? I'm imagining it is since she is such a 'NOT' forward moving type of horse? I just always imagined if I asked for the lope that I wouldn't be able to control her antics or the speed....guess I was scared of nothing after all. Plus, I'm sure it still is quite odd to her to have me on her back while doing this.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Could be she's anticipating, could be she's more eager, now that things " work", could be you sitting differently with the new saddle, could be the saddle fit...lot's of " could be"'s. 
Keep riding and watching her reactions. Maybe ask somebody who hasn't seen her for a while, if there's an obvious difference. For us it's somewhat hard to tell without seeing it actually. 
BUT...she's going forward....


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Oldhorselady said:


> So Desert, do you think this is normal? I'm imagining it is since she is such a 'NOT' forward moving type of horse? I just always imagined if I asked for the lope that I wouldn't be able to control her antics or the speed....guess I was scared of nothing after all. Plus, I'm sure it still is quite odd to her to have me on her back while doing this.


Just make sure you aren't giving conflicting cues.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Just make sure you aren't giving conflicting cues.


That's the thing....trying my best not to...lol.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Oldhorselady said:


> That's the thing....trying my best not to...lol.


It's hard isn't it? Lol, but I'm happy that Snickers is coming along nicely  Doesn't it just make you burst inside?


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Snickers was not thrilled with my first day of work today. When I got there after work, she had pulled the fly masks, leadropes and halters through the fence into her paddock...lol.:lol:


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Protesting.......;-)


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## LoveHipHop (Mar 27, 2012)

She looks great, glad she's better! 
Good luck!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Oldhorselady said:


> Snickers was not thrilled with my first day of work today. When I got there after work, she had pulled the fly masks, leadropes and halters through the fence into her paddock...lol.:lol:


 I'm thinking that after her big adventure everything else in life is going to seem very boring!!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I think she's practicing getting dressed without human help......;-)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

It's been a little over a week since really riding. I started my new job, finally this week, so I've been adjusting my life to that....and so have the horses...lol.

I was worried that Snicker's 'noodles' would be off again. I lunged her in the roundpen before riding to see. She is the same....so that is a good thing....no better, but no worse. So, I went on to ride her today. We took a ride around the ranch and then to the arena to work on loping. Her going into the lope is getting smoother and not as animated. She also isn't anticipating my asking like before. We ended the day with a smooth lope of a few strides and she is picking up speed now!!

Found this picture someone else took of us at the parade....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She is such a beautiful horse and you have her in wonderful condition
Do you know her breeding at all?


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> She is such a beautiful horse and you have her in wonderful condition
> Do you know her breeding at all?


Lol...she came from a place that reminded me of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre....but it's all good, because apparently the girl rescued her dam from a feedlot while she was in foal with Snickers. Snickers was born on her property and her name was Snooki....um, no...didn't keep the name...lol.

I was told that her sire was a black and white spotted draft with fresian in him and her dam was a buckskin paint crazy mare. I trim her 'wannabe' feathering off.

That's all I can go on. She is only 14.1hh....so who knows. I work hard at keeping her weight where it is. She is an EXTREMELY easy keeper.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

They are easy keepers that's for sure.
How do you manage her weight? Do you stable her part of the dy/night or is she happy to stand on a starvation patch?


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> They are easy keepers that's for sure.
> How do you manage her weight? Do you stable her part of the dy/night or is she happy to stand on a starvation patch?


Well, my horses are both fine with what they get pretty much. I open their pasture every other day for them to munch on. They get half the hay that the light horses on the ranch get and then their high fat mix.

I also try to exercise them or ride them almost daily.

They are not destructive really and pretty patient horses. Snickers will occasionally pull the halters, fly masks and lead ropes through the gate that they hang on, but that's about it. They will hang out at the fence line with the gelding next to them too that adore's the girls. Keeps them entertained.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Well, I've been settling into the work force again. Trying to get a new regimen going for me and the horses. So, for a little more than a week, Snickers didn't have a whole lot of riding/exercise besides being turned out etc. I had also run out of vit E and there was one day that I had to half her high fat ration because I was lower on the feed than I thought and couldn't make it to the store until the next day.

Yesterday, I decided to lung Snickers to see what her noodles were doing exactly. She seemed a little more gimpy than she had been, but not anything major. So, I just rode her around the ranch a bit. I was a little worried.

Well, today was another day! I lunged her again first. She looked good, just a little lazier. However, it does seem that she may have gained a few pounds again. I was leaving her pasture open every other day since the grass is pretty eaten down.....but that is now ending again. So.....then I went to ride her int he arena and work on holding her jog and try to lope. She held her jog wonderfully for as long as I asked, without anticipating the lope at all. Then I asked for the lope and she took off moving forward. Her best was six smooth strides at once. She is getting soooo much better! More natural feeling. So, this must mean we are moving in the right direction! :wink:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Ok, I got a video of Snickers trying to lope. It's not her best one, but you'll get the idea. This is NOT a riding critique....not the purpose of the video by any means.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Looking better each time! 
I think now you can see a big difference watching footage from the beginning vs now


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Looking better each time!
> I think now you can see a big difference watching footage from the beginning vs now


Really??? Excellent!! So good to hear!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Then we went on a trail ride....














































And a very brief video.....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

A candy bar in the jungle....;-)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Dr. Valentine just emailed me after viewing the footage.....

Wow, still early days and she is looking so good. I LOVE the parade footage! Wonder what my little EPSM palomino mare would do there (I suspect a bit more than Snickers!).

Keep up the good work, and enjoy your new horse!

Beth V


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Now you hopefully believe me ;-)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Now you hopefully believe me ;-)


Lol....:wink:

I can hardly remember what it was like when she couldn't slow down from a lope without her legs buckling and her having to make a complete stop. She couldn't jog from the lope at all...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I can see a real difference in her - I think we're more critical or may less optimistic of our own horses because we stress more
Striking off at the lope has to be the hardest thing for her I'd think and she's doing a really good job of it


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> I can see a real difference in her - I think we're more critical or may less optimistic of our own horses because we stress more
> Striking off at the lope has to be the hardest thing for her I'd think and she's doing a really good job of it


Thanks Jaydee....I think you are right.....I don't want to be too optimistic to avoid disappointment or thinking too much of something that is not.

I'm glad you guys can confirm her improvement for me. Makes me so happy.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

So, no more counting how many strides Snickers can lope.....

because.....

....now I will be counting how many LAPS she can do around the arena!! She loped almost a full lap around the arena today under saddle. When it seemed like she was going to go down to a jog, I asked her to keep going, and she did!

We may have looked liked goofballs together doing it, but at least we are doing it!!!

Love my little horse.:wink:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Loping, loping, loping!!!....

Snickers first gymkhana next weekend! I will hopefully get someone to takes some pics!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Take it easy there, not that she comes home all confused...or you;-)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Takes a lot of muscle power and control to lope so something must be working. I'm pressing on with this diet with Flo and I'm sure her muscle is looking better on her quarters which should hopefully support her stifles, she's certainly moving better


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Did first gymkhana today! Snickers won two fifth place ribbons and one second place ribbon. Proud of her. She was a pill at times, but it WAS her first event like this. The very first class was the obstacle course.....No problem, right???? WRONG! Can you believe she wouldn't walk over a tarp that was boxed in with four logs? She did some rodeo horse before we just passed that part by. She has walked over tarps and even had them wrap around her legs before! Crazy horse. We did not even place....lol.

Then, she was standing around with charros on their horses for four hours....they can get pretty insane at times and all of those speed event horses. One horse even had a thick chain for a martingale/tie down....oy.

But, good experience for her and me. I even loped her through some of the classes to win those ribbons.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

She probably was bored in the trail...little Missy won't even take it serious unless it's a parade or better lol;-)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Maybe just to much going on around her for her to concentrate on listening to you
We tried one of those little trail competitions and they placed a right angle of parallel ground poles right by the judges little shed - Looby can back up between those blindfolded at home but all she wanted to do was keep turning round to check out the people sitting inside because she really didn't trust them at all
Flo got so hyped up at the first few shows she went too we were pretty much asked to leave!!!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> Maybe just to much going on around her for her to concentrate on listening to you
> We tried one of those little trail competitions and they placed a right angle of parallel ground poles right by the judges little shed - Looby can back up between those blindfolded at home but all she wanted to do was keep turning round to check out the people sitting inside because she really didn't trust them at all
> Flo got so hyped up at the first few shows she went too we were pretty much asked to leave!!!


Glad to hear we aren't the only ones...lol. However, there were quite a few other horses there that were really acting up. We tried to steer clear of them.

I rode Snickers today in the arena and cantered her quite a bit....she acted nothing like yesterday. Yesterday, she was throwing her head up, crow hopping and just not her usual calm self at all. So, it must have been the atmosphere.

Funny how she was so calm with all the commotion at the parade. Maybe because all of the horses were acting as they should be and not all frantic and she could read their moods.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

It makes sense that she'd be crowhopping, throwing her head up.

Remember a tense horse is a stiff horse.

A relaxed horse is a soft horse.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> It makes sense that she'd be crowhopping, throwing her head up.
> 
> Remember a tense horse is a stiff horse.
> 
> A relaxed horse is a soft horse.


Ahhhhhhh, yes, that makes sense. Even standing still, she was tossing her head around. Never seen her do that before.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Practice. She'll eventually get comfortable enough loping to find the strength for canter.


Yep, you were right....she now canters!!!!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Just to let everyone know...I am now confidently confirming Snickers as having EPSM, not just a tentative diagnosis. I backed off the fat in her diet for a little over a week to see what would happen. Her legs became twisted noodles again. So, the high-fat diet clearly is her saving grace. Even though she progressed so well, people had said that maybe it was only because she was stronger and more balanced....well, no....not so much. This will be a life-long commitment for us.

On a most awesome note....I took her to her final two parade practices this past weekend before the chaos of the 4th Of July parade in Coronado this Thursday. She has already been qualified, but was needed to help give confidence to two other horses that were trying to become qualified....lol. We loaded up all of her 'spooky' gear and showed them how it was done!!! Such a good girl she is. Love her.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I am liking this because I am happy that she brought confidence to others  And that you confirmed what exactly is negatively affecting her so you can avoid it!

I don't know much about ESPM.. only that you should avoid sugar.

But I'm SO happy you are the wonderful owner that you are, who has her horse's best interests and happiness in mind


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

This is good news, actually. Proves that you were right
Now you HAVE to rename this thread....the EX- noodle legged pinto....


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Yes, getting her noodles straight again now.

It also helps me help others knowing that it is definite. I can give advice without any doubt in what I'm dealing with. Thanks for all the support you guys have given me on this journey. It was really tough for a while there.:wink:


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Of course!! Happy to provide support when possible


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Its great that you've now been able to establish what her problem is, it was all a bit of a leap into the dark for you so took a lot of courage IMO
I've really enjoyed watching her progress so I hope you'll keep posting updates


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Thanks Jaydee...that means a lot.

Here are some Coronado 4th July parade pics. This parade was very loud, big and tight quarters for sure. Horse was pretty good, I was scared to death!!!

Here we come, turning the corner into the parade....I was like, "Holy Sh**!!!!"


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

I've been reading this journal with fascination for a while now. It really is a marvelous story. I'm glad Snickers is doing so well. PSSM is... annoying, to say the least, but it can be manged and overcome. As you have demonstrated.  

It's interesting how Snickers has gone through all the stages that Baby Girl did. You've handled them much better than I handled them, however. :lol: You're so patient and understanding with your mare. I was mad at mine. Mad at something she wouldn't help. Silly, eh? You and Snicker have been coming through with so much grace.

Best of luck! I hope for continued improvement.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Brighteyes said:


> I've been reading this journal with fascination for a while now. It really is a marvelous story. I'm glad Snickers is doing so well. PSSM is... annoying, to say the least, but it can be manged and overcome. As you have demonstrated.
> 
> It's interesting how Snickers has gone through all the stages that Baby Girl did. You've handled them much better than I handled them, however. :lol: You're so patient and understanding with your mare. I was mad at mine. Mad at something she wouldn't help. Silly, eh? You and Snicker have been coming through with so much grace.
> 
> Best of luck! I hope for continued improvement.


Thank you so much Brighteyes! There have been many times, especially in the beginning, that were very trying for me. Unsure of what she was doing/could do, what it was, what her future was and if I could stick with the diet. There has been a lot of trial and error and a lot of uncertainty. Plus people think you are nuts!!! 

This horse is so worth fighting for. She can't help herself and I really get the feeling she gives everything her all. That makes it easier and very worthwhile.

Don't beat yourself up....just do what you can do. If you run into a dead end, just start over. It's so much more than a lot of people would do.


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

Agreed. These horses are worth it. And people do think we're nuts. :lol:


Funny thing. Snickers tested negative for PSSM1, didn't she? I bit the bullet and got Baby Girl tested... She was negative. Sure she was negative for that particular mutation, but the symptoms, response to treatment, and everything else lined up. Weird, huh? I just decided she had type 2 and went on doing what I was doing. If she gets too much sugar, Baby Girl loses her ability to canter and goes all crazy-legs-locking-stifles. 

I think our horses are somehow related. :lol:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Brighteyes said:


> Agreed. These horses are worth it. And people do think we're nuts. :lol:
> 
> 
> Funny thing. Snickers tested negative for PSSM1, didn't she? I bit the bullet and got Baby Girl tested... She was negative. Sure she was negative for that particular mutation, but the symptoms, response to treatment, and everything else lined up. Weird, huh? I just decided she had type 2 and went on doing what I was doing. If she gets too much sugar, Baby Girl loses her ability to canter and goes all crazy-legs-locking-stifles.
> ...


Yes, that is all familiar with me. Snickers tested neg for Type I, but decided to treat with diet/exercise like she has Type II. Why pay the expense for a muscle biopsy if it works? People still had to put their two cents in and make me doubt it by saying that her muscles just got stronger and she was more balanced...that was why she was looking so good. So, doubting my instincts, I cut back the fat to see what happend. Within a week or so, her legs were getting all twisted up again and she was resistant to move forward. I felt horrible for her. So, now I am confident with the treatment.

Snickers does the same as Baby Girl....legs get all wonky. She looks like she is breakdancing with all of her popping motions....lol.

You know what is funny?....My percheron tested positive for Type I, but displays no symptoms. I had her tested just because she is a draft and since I was doing Snickers.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You guys are doing great. Big part of mastering such obstacles is thinking outside the box, reading all you can, asking questions, and thinking. Not just believe without critique like so many do( and then wonder why they're not getting anywhere). 
With Snickers and Baby Girl, it's all about giving the right kind of " fuel" to these compromised muscles, and all is fine. Because no matter how strong these muscles become with use, without the right fuel they quit working. As Snickers has proven...;-)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> You guys are doing great. Big part of mastering such obstacles is thinking outside the box, reading all you can, asking questions, and thinking. Not just believe without critique like so many do( and then wonder why they're not getting anywhere).
> With Snickers and Baby Girl, it's all about giving the right kind of " fuel" to these compromised muscles, and all is fine. Because no matter how strong these muscles become with use, without the right fuel they quit working. As Snickers has proven...;-)


Thanks Desert....you,ve been there since day 1!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

And it was a pleasure! I guess I'm about as proud of her as you are ....


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Snickers did her third parade in Descanso, CA today! It was much more laid back than the Coronado one was. She was awesome again. We were introduced to cattle today unexpectedly! We showed up to the horse unloading area.....and it happend to be in a cattle field!.....AND the cattle were very curious...lol.

Ramona parade:











Descanso parade....pulling in to unload...surprise!!!









Descanso parade:










Cows:









Coronado parade:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

The cows.....


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Look at how much wider Snicker's front legs are than the rest of the horses...lol.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Oldhorselady said:


> Snickers did her third parade in Descanso, CA today! It was much more laid back than the Coronado one was. She was awesome again. We were introduced to cattle today unexpectedly! We showed up to the horse unloading area.....and it happend to be in a cattle field!.....AND the cattle were very curious...lol.
> 
> Ramona parade:
> 
> ...


That chestnut fits into her twice lol.
she's standing in her 4 corners. That's what we say in Germany. 
What a good girl she is


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

We say 'a leg on each corner' in the UK
I like a horse that looks like that
You must be so proud of everything you've achieved


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

She is the perfect horse for me.....she is a very sturdy-built horse for sure!

I AM very proud of her. I had no idea how she was going to react to the cattle. They didn't bother her at all. When I got her off the trailer, I walked her towards them to chase them away....lol.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Just have to put this in this journal....since my Snickers can always make me laugh. She has got to be the goofiest horse ever.

We were riding in the arena. I had my big boombox in there on a mounting block. This boombox is bigger than the one I used to carry on my shoulder in the 80's...lol. I wanted the challenge of not getting off of her and walk back to our tackroom with the boombox. I went to the gate to unlatch it. Snickers does this well and I figured she would just think it was time to go out of the gate once it was opened....well, she didn't she turned the opposite direction, towards the boombox on the mounting block. She walked up to it and then stepped sideways right next to it without me barely asking her to. I leaned down to reach for the boombox, which had Lynard Skynard playing loudly, and picked it up and rested it on her neck. It was way to heavy to carry in one hand and too big. Away we went......all the way back, kept the music loud and half resting on her wither. Once I got back to my tackroom, I was in a pickle....how to get off since I had no mounting block to reach down and place it on. So, I basically rested it on her neck with my left hand holding it and scraped my leg over her butt to get it over her....lol. She just stood there!!!! I laughed so hard and hugged her. She was just like..."Yes Mom, whatever you want, just let me know...." 

I put this horse through so many things...always approaching everything like a challenge for us both. She always listens and tries and gets us through anything. My $400 pinto.....who her mother was in foal with her when rescued from a kill pen.:smile::clap::hug::thumbsup::happydance:


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## Blazeeofglory (Jul 14, 2013)

How adorable !


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Oh, if only it could have been on video....I'm sure we looked like quite the pair.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

So she likes Southern Rock....hmm....;-)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I just love these 'feel good' stories.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Chillin' with my Doo.....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

ShowOff.....


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Lovely photos!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> ShowOff.....


She makes it easy to show off!! Have to take advantage.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You guys make such a nice team


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Great photos
What an amazing and beautiful little horse


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> You guys make such a nice team


You should see the fantasy pictures with Belle too! Have to do the renaissance thing when you own a big, black percheron...lol. They are under draft horses.....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I've seen and liked already;-)


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Lol...received the rest of the photos from the shoot today. She got one of Snickers cantering!!!










...and then a few more silly ones. I love the silly ones because they show off her true personality.....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I swear she's smiling too on the last one


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She certainly looks very pleased with herself - and why not. What a star.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

The round pen used to be the enemy for Snickers. She used to have very little tolerance for going in a circle for a length of time. She has begun to do wonderfully now. We have started to work on her impulsion with quick direction changes. This was impossible in the past. Her little noodle legs would get twisted in knots if we would have tried.

This is the latest milestone for us in this journey. Every so often she may have some off days and she looks strange when she does certain things....but it's her and I looking goofy together. Love that little Snickerdoo.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I did this video today. I apologize because it was hard to get Snickers to move forward.....I cue her by pointing, and I couldn't do that since I was holding the phone. Turn the volume down so you don't have to here all the clucking and kissing lol. Anyway....she really does move forward much nicer now, even though you don't see it in this video. She is more balanced and doesn't arch her body towards the inside any longer. She does still do that peg leg thing with her right hind at times, but I think she will always do that. It seems that her leg doesn't adjust to terrain when it dips down or not level for some reason.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Soooooo much improved! The right " wiggle" seems like a nerve impulse is missing or something along the line. Just one out of maybe 20( just as a measure of severity). As if the impulse doesn't go all the way down to the foot. I hope you can follow me on this one, I sometimes come up with rather weird descriptions....


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Soooooo much improved! The right " wiggle" seems like a nerve impulse is missing or something along the line. Just one out of maybe 20( just as a measure of severity). As if the impulse doesn't go all the way down to the foot. I hope you can follow me on this one, I sometimes come up with rather weird descriptions....


Yes I understand completely!! It is a strange phenomenon....when the ground has a dip in it under that leg....it's like her whole leg stays straight and has no 'give' to it to make up for the difference in the ground....see, I can't explain myself either!!!

I'm wondering if that is what I am feeling when I am riding her...at the walk, it's like her whole hip does this big circle thing and adjusts to whatever is going on with her leg....I will have to try and pay attention to the ground while I'm riding her and when she does it.

Despite everything, it is good to be able to work with her in the round pen and not always worry if she will be ok. She used to bend her hind end towards the inside before and never does that anymore. She is so much more balanced. Very happy with her.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She really is 100% better now - I can see that slight wiggle thing but then I'm looking for it because you pointed it out, other than that I might think she was just hitting some uneven ground or a stone maybe
I'm sure that the more muscle strength she develops thanks to this diet you have her on the less visible it will be.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> She really is 100% better now - I can see that slight wiggle thing but then I'm looking for it because you pointed it out, other than that I might think she was just hitting some uneven ground or a stone maybe
> I'm sure that the more muscle strength she develops thanks to this diet you have her on the less visible it will be.


She really is sooooo much better. The biggest problem that is very obvious, is her walking down inclines. We went on a trail ride to the beach yesterday and had to go down a fairly steep (for us) incline on the trail. When she goes down hill, she uses her rear legs very oddly. If you can imagine the way you would walk if you had an accident in your pants. Like her stifles don't bend, so she kinda swings her hips out??? Then that is where she seems to have the locking stifle action too. Maybe I can have someone video one of these days...lol. I tell her to go easy and she just takes it one leg at a time. But those handicaps don't prevent her from being the most fantastic trail horse and partner!:wink:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Went on a fabulous trail ride yesterday to the beach. I rode Snickers and my friend rode my percheron, Belle.....



















More horses up ahead!









Belle LOVES water....Snickers still a little hesitent....


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

What a fun looking ride! /jealous


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Oh you lucky thing
I hate you LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Lol......sorry.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Snickers did GREAT, as she usually does now, at her parade last weekend in Poway, CA! Here is a video....our group is at 3:44 in the video. Parade was a nice one. We had to ride through the city and lots of traffic and traffic lights to get back to our trailer though. We were also met with a street sweeper in the parking lot. Snickers was fine though.






Also, I have been trying the amino acid, Acytel -L-Carnitine for her. Dr. Valentine stated she didn't have much luck with it, but it couldn't hurt to try. I will say that I feel like Snickers doesn't look as bulky! She will always be a stocky horse, but she doesn't seem as marshmallowish. I still ride her about the same as before, however, we do work on impulsion more....so maybe that is helping too. Just a note for now.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

And again, she's smiling and waving, too. She seems to enjoy the attention!

I seriously have no clue about the L-Carnitine, gotta go and read up on it lol. But work has a lot to do with developing that sportive body vs.just being chubby. 
Many years ago I fed silicea to my flabby Haflinger. Improved body tone a lot. I haven't seen it around here, so I doubt it can be found.. off to Dr. Google;-)


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Okay, googled.....L-carnitine provides energy and "feeds" the brain, it says. Which is good.
My silicea is actually, I found after remembering the product I used, diatomaceous earth. It strengthens connective tissue( skin, ligaments, tendons) and helps grow healthy skin, hair and hooves. Strengthening the connective tissue I saw. Big time. Like I said, Hafi lost the spongy, flabby appearance.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Okay, googled.....L-carnitine provides energy and "feeds" the brain, it says. Which is good.
> My silicea is actually, I found after remembering the product I used, diatomaceous earth. It strengthens connective tissue( skin, ligaments, tendons) and helps grow healthy skin, hair and hooves. Strengthening the connective tissue I saw. Big time. Like I said, Hafi lost the spongy, flabby appearance.


Desert....how much DE did you feed? I actually have some of that too already in my garage.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Had to share this from this morning....I arrived and found this hawk in the pasture. Obviously, he was not his normal self not flying away. But we got the opportunity to see this beautiful bird up close. He did die later and the park ranger came and took him away...he was banded. But he really was very beautiful.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Poor hawk  at least he was laid to rest in a beautiful place instead of being ripped to shreds by a predator..


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Poor guy. Anything visible what could have caused this?
I'll have to check in the German website, be back after dinner


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Poor guy. Anything visible what could have caused this?
> I'll have to check in the German website, be back after dinner


No, nothing visible. He looked fine, but I know nothing about birds. It was so nice to see one of these beautiful birds up close though.

I bought DE as a possible dewormer thing, but after researching, decided that it wouldn't be effective once wet in the stomach. So, I have tons of it left now.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I have found a couple of young hawks, obviously fallen out of the nest, not able to fly yet. I learned you don't want to touch a healthy one, even still a baby, without thick leather gloves lol.
We brought them to a wildlife station to raise and release.

The DE is fed 2-3 months, a whopping 6 grams daily.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I have found a couple of young hawks, obviously fallen out of the nest, not able to fly yet. I learned you don't want to touch a healthy one, even still a baby, without thick leather gloves lol.
> We brought them to a wildlife station to raise and release.
> 
> The DE is fed 2-3 months, a whopping 6 grams daily.


There was a second one by a nearby tree...calling to it when I would get so close to it. I was waiting for it to swoop down and attack me at any moment! It didn't though. Luckily I got to experience this without injury...lol.

So you only feed the DE for 2-3 months at a time? Once a year?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I fed it only once, one course. It's meant to help with skin conditions mainly and being fed spring and fall, to help with coat change I guess. That's what I used it for initially. The nice side effect wasn't planned lol. So, as for time of the year, you're right on;-). Do a month or so and then check if you see a difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She looks like she's really enjoying herself and taking it all in
I've started feeding Flo Vitamin C after thinking that as horses metabolize it from glucose (unlike humans and guinea pigs) if a horse that has IRS like she does can't produce glucose efficiently then they might not be able to produce enough Vit C too
Since I've been using it she's looking a lot better muscle wise and has more energy again. Since she's been on the high fat diet she's no where near as 'wobbly' on her back legs but her arthritis goes against her for riding now I think


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

So the C is for the PSSM part or the IR part? I feed extra vit E to arrive at 2000IU daily to my IR horse, along with extra salt and 10 g magnesium. Seemed to help. Please don't ask me who said feed extra E....Kellon? Can't remember lol....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> So the C is for the PSSM part or the IR part? I feed extra vit E to arrive at 2000IU daily to my IR horse, along with extra salt and 10 g magnesium. Seemed to help. Please don't ask me who said feed extra E....Kellon? Can't remember lol....


 I'm feeding the C for the IRS part - purely on my own thinking - I've not seen any research on it but it seemed to make some sort of sense to my logic that if they have impaired uptake of glucose that will also effect ability to produce Vit C


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## EmilyJoy (Dec 30, 2011)

deserthorsewoman said:


> So the C is for the PSSM part or the IR part? I feed extra vit E to arrive at 2000IU daily to my IR horse, along with extra salt and 10 g magnesium. Seemed to help. Please don't ask me who said feed extra E....Kellon? Can't remember lol....


I think Cherie mentioned it?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

jaydee said:


> I'm feeding the C for the IRS part - purely on my own thinking - I've not seen any research on it but it seemed to make some sort of sense to my logic that if they have impaired uptake of glucose that will also effect ability to produce Vit C


 Hmmm....my smart book says " no demonstrated dietary requirement of this vitamin for horses". It does mention older horses or those with infertility problems could benefit. And the only form of C that can be utilized without side effects is ascorbyl palmitate. That explains why some senior feeds contain C.....


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

EmilyJoy said:


> I think Cherie mentioned it?


nope, I'm pretty sure I saw it one one of the nutritionist websites. I'll find it......;-)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I always went by the 'no need' as they metabolize it from glucose and that's something hats readily available in any healthy horses diet - it was when I got to thinking that a horse with IRS cant make glucose so well so might get a deficiency of Vit C


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, I see your reasoning. On my end here, everything is super high in iron, which is bad for IR horses, and C helps with absorbing Fe in the hindgut....so I guess I better don't supplement it lol


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I feed 2000iU of Vit E a day too. The L-carnitine is an amino acid and supposed to help with the glucose part.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I took the girls on a walk up the mesa across the street from the ranch. I actually suddenly remembered to try and take a video of Snickers legs going downhill on the way back. Hopefully you can see....this was quite difficult. She knuckles over a lot and sometimes gets the peg leg thing with that right hind.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah I can definitely see that! Well regardless Snickers has come such a long way!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Yeah I can definitely see that! Well regardless Snickers has come such a long way!


Yes Sky, you are right! She just has a disability, nothing more. Going downhill is her ultimate obstacle. When I ride her downhill, I just have to pay attention and do things a little different. I think I will keep taking walks with the girls up this mesa to see if anything changes in time. It's good for all of our butts anyway!:shock:


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, can see it too. She's concentrating a lot . I stick with my previous description, as if a nerve impulse doesn't quite arrive where it is meant to go. Or not full force. Can't come up with a better description. But, if that's the only thing that's visible, I think you can live with that. So can Snickers


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Yeah, can see it too. She's concentrating a lot . I stick with my previous description, as if a nerve impulse doesn't quite arrive where it is meant to go. Or not full force. Can't come up with a better description. But, if that's the only thing that's visible, I think you can live with that. So can Snickers


How did you get so smart desert???? It really seems like you have been around the block a few times...lol! Thank you so much for all of your insight, comments, advice and wisdom!

Yes, Snickers and I will be just fine. She has a disability, she is not crippled...and I don't even think she realized it or even cares. She always seems like a very happy girl, full of life and curiosity. She is a true character and partner and always puts a smile on my face.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

That's when it does look like a bit of stifle weakness - though it might be something as simple as her 'feeling' a sharp bit of stone and going 'ouch'


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Oldhorselady said:


> How did you get so smart desert???? It really seems like you have been around the block a few times...lol! Thank you so much for all of your insight, comments, advice and wisdom!
> 
> Yes, Snickers and I will be just fine. She has a disability, she is not crippled...and I don't even think she realized it or even cares. She always seems like a very happy girl, full of life and curiosity. She is a true character and partner and always puts a smile on my face.


I have been around the block a few times alright..... I'm OLD.....eeeeeck.....;-)

She's a real happy-go-lucky character, and this is a biiiiiiig plus!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

jaydee said:


> That's when it does look like a bit of stifle weakness - though it might be something as simple as her 'feeling' a sharp bit of stone and going 'ouch'


She walks downhill like this on any terrain....stoney or soft. She can also have some of this movement in tight circles on uneven ground.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

We went on a group trail ride the other day and I thought this was a cute picture of both of my horses together. Snickers is getting closer to the water....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

You're so lucky to have that beach to ride on


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

So, it has been several months now of Snickers being on her EPSM diet and receiving regular exercise. I wanted to make a final note in here that she is stable with her improvement. I can't say that she has made any further improvements. I think she is at her best. I never expected her to be perfect and she has come a VERY long way. It's good to be at this point, since I now know what she is capable of and can plan accordingly. There is no more guess work or mystery. I am very grateful for THAT alone. The frustration has ended on our journey and I can just enjoy her for her. She is very happy and brings me joy every day. 

With all of this being said, thanks to your all who have followed our journey. There were many times that I needed support and advice. Many times I felt alone and crazy. Many times I also felt sad, thinking the worst for Snicker's future.

Now, I can put all of that aside with confidence, in diagnosis as well as her abilities. I hope that this can also show other people facing the same type of diagnosis, that this is not a death sentence. This journal has come to an end.....


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Thank you for sharing


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