# Wondering about her markings.



## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

I know she's a flaxen chestnut, but I was wondering about the roaning on her blaze and the spots on her back legs? Technical terms.. if they have any? I don't know much about markings except the common ones. 

Thanks!


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

The roaning is just extra white hair around her marking, probably from the sabino. Sabino is also causing her face white to go the whole length of the face, and be so even, as well as the jagged socks on her back legs. She probably has frame too, which is causing the face white to spread above the eyes. The little spots on her skin are mottles that are perfectly normal.


----------



## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

Like I said I'm not knowledgeable about markings/colors, but frame and sabino are Paint horse terms, correct? :?


----------



## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

they are pinto terms yes, frame and sabino describe pinto patterns, and your girl is showing these pinto patterns, in a very minimal expression.


----------



## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

Oh, ok. Lol. So she's a pinto flaxen chestnut? Or just a flaxen chestnut with minimal pinto markings?


----------



## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

TECHNICALLY yes she is a pinto. but it's just easier to call her a flaxen chesnut, because when you say pinto people will be confused, and then you end up like me, where i am explaining each gene to someone and they just look dumb founded haha

but yes if you wanted people to know she was a pinto i'd call her a flaxen chesnut with minimal pinto expression.

generally, most horses with white markings will have some kind of white modifier gene (IE pinto gene) but people wont call them pinto because its not enough white to be considered a pinto horse.


----------



## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ok. Lol. I was just asking because I know someone will think she is old because of the roaning on her blaze, and I want to able to explain to them that it is just her markings. Since she isn't registered I know I'll get asked.


----------



## rhavennah (Jun 19, 2012)

i wouldn't guess frame on her honestly...just sabino which is responsible for a lot of white markings on faces and legs.

unless she has a parent who was a frame overo paint horse, she cannot have the gene

if she does have a frame overo parent (and paint breeders generally know if their horses being bred are frame overo due to the fact that 2 frame overo horses have the chance of producing a lethal white foal), then you can easily have her color tested for the frame gene by uc davis


----------



## Eileen (Aug 25, 2010)

Then again she just might have red (strawberry) roan in her blood line and nothing to do with paint or pinto markings.


----------



## Eileen (Aug 25, 2010)

I've had that type of roan markings in my Quarter-Morgan, and my Appy that I had when I was younger and neither had any paint or pinto in them.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Considering frame "hides" you can have a whole bloodline of horses that are carriers are not "showing" frame with a loud pattern...


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Eileen - The roaning on the blaze is nothing like the roan that causes a "strawberry" roan. If a horse is roan/has roan it WILL show. It doesn't hide.


----------



## rhavennah (Jun 19, 2012)

you can, of course, have a minimally expressed frame gene...but you cannot have the frame gene unless one parent had it...its a dominant gene

at any rate, the only way to know for sure if this horse has frame if one parent is known to be frame, is to test her


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

But if you don't know the sire or dam had it and it isn't expressed on them there is no way to know without testing.

Frame can present with no markings what so ever. 

this guy is a perfect example. Not a speck of white on him, but he is a frame carrier.


----------



## rhavennah (Jun 19, 2012)

yes, i'm fully aware of how the paint genes work...however, telling someone that their horse looks like frame no other indicators of it is not really the best guess to make...especially as being proved by your own blue eyed example of a horse that clearly has an indicator of some form of paint gene...and there are no "Frame carriers." its a dominant gene, which means they have it or they don't. "carrying" a gene is a term used for recessive genes that are "Carried" on the locus with the dominant one...frame overo cannot be "carried" and hidden behind a recessive gene

the frame gene is not one to toy with and responsible breeders test their stock for it...therefore, it is a reasonable assumption that the breeders of the mare tested her parents

not really sure why you feel the need to argue with me on this...yes, frame can be minimally expressed. sorry, but i disagree with your opinion that the mare "looks" frame

neither of us can possibly be proven correct until a test is done...until then, your opinion is just "right/wrong" as mine


----------



## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

She is an Appendix QH, and the result of a backyard breeder. Her dam was a QH/Appy and her sire was a TB/something; none of her relatives that are known are registered. 

I'm just glad she's a cute BYB baby and not an ugly one like some around here. :lol:

Thanks everyone!


----------



## SRCM16 (Oct 7, 2011)

NdAppy said:


>


Is this lil guy yours? He's adorable! Wish there was one that looked like that around here; I'd breed my lil mini mare to him! :lol:


----------



## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

rhavennah said:


> however, telling someone that their horse looks like frame no other indicators of it is not really the best guess to make...


Don't assume I had "no other indicator" of frame. I do have indications. The first is the lack of leg white, when accompanied by a fair amount of face white. While I wouldn't expect high white, I would expect white on the fores as well as the hinds if the white is being caused by sabino. Secondly, the shape of the blaze DOES indicate frame. Sabino creates thin, even markings that stay the same width or fairly uniform the whole length of the marking. Splash causes white on the face to be bottom heavy and to slide a little so it is usually heavier on one side than the other. Frame causes face white to be top heavy as it tries to spread over the eyes. Have a look at the OP's horse and I am sure you can at least tell me which one she is indicating. 

Frame can be described as "carried" because, while it is dominant, it can be very difficult to see, as it can cause no white at all, or it can be difficult to make out from other white patterns unless you are very good at "seeing" it.


----------

