# Franken-saddle... Please give opinions.



## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Back story: my horse came with saddle. No, the saddle didn't come with the horse. I bought a saddle and they asked me to take Chance and then basically paid me to take another horse off their hands. 

It's a lovely lovely Big Horn roping saddle. I love this saddle. Don't get me wrong. But, it's so beautiful that given my affinity for long messy trail rides that occasionally result in a swim, plus the stirrups are just enough too long to make long distance trotting annoying. I've hatched an idea. 

Dun dun dun dunnnnn 

Frankenstein-saddle. 

My idea is to take a synthetic western barrel saddle. Cut off the horn, sand and wrap the pommel, add loops to the skirt for gear, and finally, remove the fenders and western stirrups and replace with English leathers and irons. 

I fairly frequently buy damaged saddles and repair/resell them so I'm not concerned about being able to actually do the work but, am I crazy? 

I wouldn't show in it obviously but for camping and even NATRC rides, it sounds like a possible way to have the best of both worlds in a saddle. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Not the greatest with the longe line all looped up but you can at least see my current saddle. 


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Why not just buy a synthetic endurance saddle and put English leathers on it?


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

The thought of taking a perfectly good saddle and cutting the horn off makes me sad. I get repurposing, swapping out fenders and such, but as Drafty says you can buy a really nice Trail type synthetic, which sounds like a better option.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Agree that sounds like a lot of work when you can find what you are looking for already made.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Why not just buy a synthetic endurance saddle and put English leathers on it?



That is actually a good option. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> The thought of taking a perfectly good saddle and cutting the horn off makes me sad. I get repurposing, swapping out fenders and such, but as Drafty says you can buy a really nice Trail type synthetic, which sounds like a better option.



I wouldn't be doing it to a new saddle. Hoping to find one at a tack swap or Craigslist for the project. 


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

No, the point is, why disfigure any perfectly good western saddle when there are hundreds of models of saddles, some very reasonably priced, which are exactly as you describe you want? 

Want to get an eyefull of the dizzying array of models of saddles with western-style seats and english-style leathers and no horn, I recommend the Endurance Horse and Tack Swap facebook group. Seriously you should look at that before you take a saw to a saddle, even if you choose to go that route.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Avna said:


> No, the point is, why disfigure any perfectly good western saddle when there are hundreds of models of saddles, some very reasonably priced, which are exactly as you describe you want?


Exactly, why reinvent the wheel? Just seems a shame to cut the horn off a perfectly good saddle, new or not.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Why did I bother?? 

As I said, it was an idea. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

You act like the saddle has an emotion. To me, it sounds like a cool project. 


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Not that the saddle has emotions. Just sounds like a lot of unnecessary work when what you want is readily available. *shrug*
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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

MrsKD14 said:


> Why did I bother??
> 
> As I said, it was an idea.
> 
> ...


Well it isn't that bad compared to some of the doing-things-the-hard-way projects I myself have thought up over the years. However I am trying to wean myself off of the "because I know how to do it I *should* do it" school of endeavor. Frees up a lot of time for more valuable pursuits, I have found.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

MrsKD14 said:


> You act like the saddle has an emotion. To me, it sounds like a cool project.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well just go ahead then, why ask? No I don't think a saddle has an emotion, just see no point butchering a perfectly good item, to make something that you can already buy.

Now if you had, as I do, a saddle with a broken horn sat on your barn, and you were going to turn it into something else, that would be different.

As it is 

"fantastic, great idea it will be wonderful"

Is that what you need to hear, in which case you should of been clear in the OP. Should of said, "please just pat my back and support my idea"


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Just take before and after pictures.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Suppose I could try and find a used dressage saddle and then add rings and such to it. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Sorry I got snappy with yall. 

I guess a lot of DIY projects sound great at 2 in the morning while folding your second box of 500 of panties at work. 


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

MrsKD14 said:


> Suppose I could try and find a used dressage saddle and then add rings and such to it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lots of 'english endurance' saddles are nothing but dressage saddles with rings added. I own one, it is absolutely lovely.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

MrsKD14 said:


> Sorry I got snappy with yall.
> 
> I guess a lot of DIY projects sound great at 2 in the morning while folding your second box of 500 of panties at work.


I can see how that would happen, I get crazy just folding one laundry load of panties, 500 at a time is something else..


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> I can see how that would happen, I get crazy just folding one laundry load of panties, 500 at a time is something else..



It pays the board though lol we only have to do that once or twice a week though 


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Why not just buy a synthetic endurance saddle and put English leathers on it?


Of WHAT use is that horn, anyway? HOW many people ride Western and NEVER chase cattle?!?!?!? How many Western Pleasure riders get hung up on that stupid horn learning to ride? There are lots of ways to hang stuff on your saddle and the endurance saddle (above) has rings and a hole in the pommel. The McClellan has a hole in the pommel, too, and I used to run my lead through it to tie it off on long rides.
I say, go for it. You already OWN that saddle, it's that crappy shallow depth cheapo 1970's style saddle, Anyway, and you know how to customize. Only don't do it, if it isn't comfortable, because you won't want to ride it.
The useless to ME horn is probably the number one reason why I won't buy another Western saddle. It used to be a thing to buy hornless, but I cannot figure out why that never caught on. I've lived on my property now for 16 years and still...no cattle, even though I'm zoned for it.
I would like to buy an endurance saddle, however.
Let us know what you decide to do. =D


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Corporal, people now use the horn as a safety net. Horse gets a little squirrelly or the rider panics and first thing they do, instead of relying on their seat, is grab onto that darn horn for dear life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Haha I actually do rope from my roping saddle occasionally so I won't be touching that horn. 

I'm looking at some various options sans horn simply bc it gets in my way on trails. 

I've had too many miles on my roping saddle and too many memories made in it to touch it. Heck, I was scared to even add a nameplate to the back. But I've got to do something a little more long distance friendly. 


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

What do you use as a safety net when you ride English? Personally, if you need to grab that horn because your horse is squirrelly, it's time for some retraining of your horse and for yourself. It is possible to be thrown forward and hit that horn square in your stomach. I don't like them. If you are riding an endurance saddle you can grab the pommel.
I remember this lady who was camped with us in SD and she was walking her 13yo trail horse mare back to camp. I asked Why, and she pointed to her one broken rein. THAT is what you should be riding on the trails if you don't have a good seat. She told me that she spent countless hours working with this once fractious mare to get her to go slow on the trails, and she wasn't any kind of a trainer, just determined to make her horse good.
If you or your horse aren't safe on the trails you are risking getting hurt, but if that's the way somebody wants to roll, go for it.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Corporal said:


> What do you use as a safety net when you ride English? Personally, if you need to grab that horn because your horse is squirrelly, it's time for some retraining of your horse and for yourself. It is possible to be thrown forward and hit that horn square in your stomach. I don't like them. If you are riding an endurance saddle you can grab the pommel.
> I remember this lady who was camped with us in SD and she was walking her 13yo trail horse mare back to camp. I asked Why, and she pointed to her one broken rein. THAT is what you should be riding on the trails if you don't have a good seat. She told me that she spent countless hours working with this once fractious mare to get her to go slow on the trails, and she wasn't any kind of a trainer, just determined to make her horse good.
> If you or your horse aren't safe on the trails you are risking getting hurt, but if that's the way somebody wants to roll, go for it.


Corporal, I have a friend who started to get into LD and endurance with her (sometimes squirrelly) Arab gelding. When she bought her custom endurance saddle, she ordered it with a horn. Our trainer-friend, who does endurance as well, made no end of fun of her for having a horn. My friend's answer "I just feel more secure with a horn." :icon_rolleyes:

It's like people who get an Aussie saddle with a horn. I've asked people why and they've said "It's to grab onto if I feel like I'm going to come off or if the horse spooks." Ummmmm...that's what the poleys are for, but okay. 

My best friend (who has been riding western her whole life) is another who thinks the horn is there to grab onto if you don't feel secure. 

I have yet another friend who has an Australian Stock Saddle Co Muster Master saddle with a horn. When she saw my Aussie saddle and saw it didn't have a horn, she absolutely FREAKED. "What are you going to hold onto if your horse spooks?!?!" Well, for one thing, my horse doesn't spook. For another, that's what the poleys are for. And for a third, that's not how this works...that's not how any of this works! :lol:

Oh, and people who can't rely on their seat to remain on the horse if things get squirrelly or they don't feel secure? They don't generally tend to ride English because they don't feel safe perched up in a little, tiny English saddle with nothing to grab onto.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

The OP said she had experience buying, refurbishing, and reselling old saddles. It's not unusual to find cheap used saddles with the horn already broken. The trick would be to find a broken one that also fits both the horse and the OP.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> Oh, and people who can't rely on their seat to remain on the horse if things get squirrelly or they don't feel secure? They don't generally tend to ride English because they don't feel safe perched up in a little, tiny English saddle with nothing to grab onto.


And there is NOTHING wrong with that is there?

I rode exclusively English for many many years, like 30 odd I guess, then I started riding western, and at first I felt very insecure, great big saddle, no feel, way up above the horses back....very odd.

For years there I rode both, and enjoyed both, both are equally as easy/hard whatever.

As most of you know since my fall I tend to break out in a sweat thinking about riding in an English saddle, I just feel safer in my Western, even though I have since fallen off from that as well!! 

I have a love hate relationship with my saddle horn, I rarely grab it, but do like to hang things on it, like hat and headstall when walking to the arena. While I can dismount 99% of the time at home without hitching myself on the horn, at shows that seems to reverse, and I manage to give a free show more often than not.

I did have an Abetta Endurance for a while, great comfortable saddle, but somehow missed the horn...off isn't it.

Final thought, maybe it is better for the horse if someone is grabbing their horn, possibly the sort of rider who hangs on to their horn, would other wise be hanging on to their horses mouth?

There are a whole range of legitimate saddles to ride in, who cares what people choose....but that range of saddles means that there is something for everyone, without having to cut up one to make another!!!

http://www.horseforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

GH, didn't say there was anything wrong with it. Just saying that's a lot of people's reasoning (especially where I live) for not riding English. Same friend who freaked because my Aussie didn't have a horn also freaked when I told her that I wanted to learn to ride English for the exact same reason.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Op,

I know a few people who have sawed off the horn of their western saddles. I considered it with my synthetic one myself because it just gets in the way or I get caught up on it.. and I'm too cheap to buy an endurance model one at the moment.  

I know a lot of people who will switch out the fenders too.. so if you feel like a project and want to play, and don't mind buying the pieces.. I say go for it. Worse case that happens is something breaks and can't be used, and you're out the money.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Budget is a factor. I have leathers and irons just sitting here. Lol. Again, I can think up some crazy projects during the mind numbing panty stocking nights. ( I'm not creepy/crazy, I work at lingerie store) 


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## EdmontonHorseGal (Jun 2, 2013)

i think the buckle of the english stirrup leather under your leg may be irritating. might want to try an aussie leather instead, as they are designed to have the buckle down closer to your foot on the leather.

i know i tried riding my aussie saddle with english leathers and the buckle nearly ended up hurting my inner thigh. i can imagine where the buckle would sit with the english leather on a western tree (even more under your thigh) and it wouldn't be fun.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

I think you might be able to buy a good, used synthetic endurance saddle for a lot less than you think, especially an Abetta or something similar. 

As for not having the horn, I think it's actually nice to have the hornless saddle. As a woman of some "means" in the chest area, not having it there to catch my bra on when dismounting is rather nice :lol:.


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## Rain Shadow (May 1, 2014)

Personally I love my horn. I dall a rope around my horn, hang a horn bag, hang the bridle if I'm switching horses on a longer ride. I tend to wrap the lead around the horn a few times while I'm ponying. I also like resting my bad wrist on the top of the horn on longer rides.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I have ridden English for so long I never think of grabbing horn when something goofy happens but my Western saddle is sooooo comfy that I rarely ride anything else these days. I have had evil thoughts toward the horn when I have been out on trail and leaned forward a little too far going uphill and when I went to sit down, discovered I had hooked the bottom of my bra on the horn. THAT'S a rude awakening! LOL! My solution? I quit wearing a bra on trail rides.


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## Mulefeather (Feb 22, 2014)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> LOL! My solution? I quit wearing a bra on trail rides.


I hate to say it but I'd wind up with two black eyes after 15 seconds of trotting


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Mulefeather said:


> I hate to say it but I'd wind up with two black eyes after 15 seconds of trotting


LOL, that's why I keep it to a very sedate western pleasure wog.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Roflol 


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I have ridden English for so long I never think of grabbing horn when something goofy happens but my Western saddle is sooooo comfy that I rarely ride anything else these days. I have had evil thoughts toward the horn when I have been out on trail and leaned forward a little too far going uphill and when I went to sit down, discovered I had hooked the bottom of my bra on the horn. THAT'S a rude awakening! LOL! My solution? I quit wearing a bra on trail rides.


:rofl:


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

You guys are cracking me up! I've never had this happen but I have had the horn catch me between buttons and leave me rather exposed. 


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

For the horn haters...While I don't do cattle I do love horns. On long trail rides it's my hand rest. When ponying and the horse gets balky, I take a wrap around my horn and they soon learn to not balk. Nothing like having a strong 16.2hh gelding to drag another horse around on who doesn't want to go. It's something to hang things off of, which I do frequently. 

As for using the horn as a safety handle, rarely had to do that. I do know someone who used her horn like that all the time to the point she never learned to hang on with her legs. Bought a hornless saddle, got in trouble, went to grab the horn that wasn't there so missed and popped right out of the saddle. Luckily nothing but minor bruises.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Darrin said:


> For the horn haters...While I don't do cattle I do love horns. On long trail rides it's my hand rest. When ponying and the horse gets balky, I take a wrap around my horn and they soon learn to not balk. Nothing like having a strong 16.2hh gelding to drag another horse around on who doesn't want to go. It's something to hang things off of, which I do frequently.
> 
> As for using the horn as a safety handle, rarely had to do that. I do know someone who used her horn like that all the time to the point she never learned to hang on with her legs. Bought a hornless saddle, got in trouble, went to grab the horn that wasn't there so missed and popped right out of the saddle. Luckily nothing but minor bruises.


I wouldn't call myself a horn hater but, at times it annoys me on the trails here bc unless I go a few hours south, trails are straight up and down most of the time so I get a lot of that horn in the bell mess. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Avna said:


> Lots of 'english endurance' saddles are nothing but dressage saddles with rings added. I own one, it is absolutely lovely.



Does a leather dressage saddle stand up to a lot of water crossing and miles? I have the opportunity to buy one for a pretty great price from a trainer. 


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

ANy good quality saddle should stand up to miles, and with a bit of TLC should cope with water as well. Coming from the UK we used to ride in the rain, a lot, I mean soaked to the skin, sopping wet saddle and bridle rain, just used to hang them up on a dry pace and saddle soap after every ride, well every wet ride!


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

DO NOT DISFIGURE A BIG HORN SADDLE! That is sacrilege!


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

waresbear said:


> DO NOT DISFIGURE A BIG HORN SADDLE! That is sacrilege!



Never!!! I said a little further up that I'll never touch that saddle. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Golden Horse said:


> ANy good quality saddle should stand up to miles, and with a bit of TLC should cope with water as well. Coming from the UK we used to ride in the rain, a lot, I mean soaked to the skin, sopping wet saddle and bridle rain, just used to hang them up on a dry pace and saddle soap after every ride, well every wet ride!



So you think it would be ok for me to do LD and stuff like that in one? 


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

MrsKD14 said:


> So you think it would be ok for me to do LD and stuff like that in one?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A friend of mine that did endurance had one of the endurance-style dressage saddles. She LOVED it, but didn't ride in it much because it didn't fit her horse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

She is willing to sell it for $50 so I'll probably give it a try. She has ridden him a lot and thinks it will fit him. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

I just really really need some more support in my legs. 


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

MrsKD14 said:


> So you think it would be ok for me to do LD and stuff like that in one?


Every trail mile and endurance ride I have ever ridden in has been in a leather english-type saddle. That includes more miles sopping wet than I care to think about.

As GoldenHorse said, just take care of the saddle by drying it and conditioning it after its been wet and it will last years.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

MrsKD14 said:


> She is willing to sell it for $50 so I'll probably give it a try. She has ridden him a lot and thinks it will fit him.


Holy moly, for that price if you don't buy it I will!! Def try it.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

phantomhorse13 said:


> Every trail mile and endurance ride I have ever ridden in has been in a leather english-type saddle. That includes more miles sopping wet than I care to think about.
> 
> As GoldenHorse said, just take care of the saddle by drying it and conditioning it after its been wet and it will last years.



Alright then [emoji4] I'll take y'all's word for it! I guess we'll be trying it out. 

I also contacted and instructor to get some tune up lessons on my seat. I've been out of the saddle for almost a year and just feel kind of weird and rusty. Happy to pick up where we left off but still. 


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

phantomhorse13 said:


> Every trail mile and endurance ride I have ever ridden in has been in a leather english-type saddle. That includes more miles sopping wet than I care to think about.
> 
> As GoldenHorse said, just take care of the saddle by drying it and conditioning it after its been wet and it will last years.



Did you ever have issues with his back being sore from the smaller footprint of the saddle? I've only schooled and gone one little one to two mile rides in one 


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

MrsKD14 said:


> Did you ever have issues with his back being sore from the smaller footprint of the saddle? I've only schooled and gone one little one to two mile rides in one


*knock on wood* We have not had back soreness issues and have done rides of up to 100 miles in competition. However, we also made sure to get saddles that fit each specific horse and we have a saddle fitter out every 6 months to check the flocking and make any necessary adjustments.

Taken coming into a hold at the Vermont 100:











Trotting out for the vet at the Rabbit Run 50:











I think because of their smaller footprints you have less wiggle room for fit being not-quite-right with english than you do western. But don't let anybody tell you that you _have_ to use a western saddle to hit the trail and keep your horse comfortable.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Let's hope the $50 saddle didn't start it's life as a $150 saddle. There's a simple solution to your fenders being too long. Remove the rivets and trim then shorter. The add new rivets or use thin strips of leather. Fenders are mud flaps. Once you've shortened the top you can move it higher. I've done this on more than a few saddles for short legged riders. Most horns are made of steel and are bolted on. Removal leaves a sizeable hole.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

Saddlebag said:


> Let's hope the $50 saddle didn't start it's life as a $150 saddle. There's a simple solution to your fenders being too long. Remove the rivets and trim then shorter. The add new rivets or use thin strips of leather. Fenders are mud flaps. Once you've shortened the top you can move it higher. I've done this on more than a few saddles for short legged riders. Most horns are made of steel and are bolted on. Removal leaves a sizeable hole.



It didn't. It's a high end leather saddle. 

Saddle fitter confirmed that his roping saddle no longer fits him anyways. [emoji45]


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

phantomhorse13 said:


> *knock on wood* We have not had back soreness issues and have done rides of up to 100 miles in competition. However, we also made sure to get saddles that fit each specific horse and we have a saddle fitter out every 6 months to check the flocking and make any necessary adjustments.
> 
> Taken coming into a hold at the Vermont 100:
> 
> ...



Thanks for relieving that worry. I can't see him ever doing 100 miles. Lol. But I do have access to a reputable saddle fitter as well and she said if it doesn't fit, she will refund me. 


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## WestCoasted (Jan 19, 2016)

LOL!!! For half a second I thought the guy in the lime green shirt was standing on the horse!!!!

Regarding franken-saddle. Do it! Obviously, don't chop up your main or only saddle. If you've got a spare that's not much use to you and you don't want to sell it, then chop it. It's your saddle, do with it as you please. I see two benefits. 1) you get a totally unique saddle that is exactly suited to what you want. 2) you get to hone your craft and gain a greater understanding of saddle mechanics and wear. Worst case scenario, you make a mess and only gain benefit 2. 

Remember: Proper prior planning prevents **** poor performance! 

I'm just speaking for myself here, but I am a horn hater. I've taken a horn to the gut a few times and that was enough. For me, in my life, horns just don't serve a purpose.


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

WestCoasted said:


> LOL!!! For half a second I thought the guy in the lime green shirt was standing on the horse!!!!
> 
> Regarding franken-saddle. Do it! Obviously, don't chop up your main or only saddle. If you've got a spare that's not much use to you and you don't want to sell it, then chop it. It's your saddle, do with it as you please. I see two benefits. 1) you get a totally unique saddle that is exactly suited to what you want. 2) you get to hone your craft and gain a greater understanding of saddle mechanics and wear. Worst case scenario, you make a mess and only gain benefit 2.
> 
> ...



The little saddle I had in mind for turning Franken-saddle had the same saddle fit problem as the roping-pinching his withers. 

My husband said that he's down for a trip to our closest tack shop on Saturday so we will see what that yields. 


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## WestCoasted (Jan 19, 2016)

MrsKD14 said:


> The little saddle I had in mind for turning Franken-saddle had the same saddle fit problem as the roping-pinching his withers.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, if you already have the saddle.... you could strip it and adjust the tree.
By adjust I mean sand down the bars and re-finish with correct angles. Does mean a large amount of work and no guaranteed success. Besides, who doesn't love a new saddle? 

I'm interested because I have a side saddle in my garage I bought for kicks and giggles ages ago. I'm planning to tear it apart to see what's inside. It's Pakistani and cheap, so who knows? I'm betting plastic. Depending on the tree, I may rebuild it.


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## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

golden horse said:


> well just go ahead then, why ask? No i don't think a saddle has an emotion, just see no point butchering a perfectly good item, to make something that you can already buy.
> 
> Now if you had, as i do, a saddle with a broken horn sat on your barn, and you were going to turn it into something else, that would be different.
> 
> ...


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## MrsKD14 (Dec 11, 2015)

ShirtHotTeez said:


> View attachment 752858



Now THAT is brilliant! 


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## Sheri Williams (Jan 14, 2015)

*creativity counts*



MrsKD14 said:


> Why did I bother??
> 
> As I said, it was an idea.
> 
> ...


cool! without creative thinkers, how would new come to fruition? 

never stop thinking, trying and doing, and I personally love 
your thought to work a plan, but its also great to have some
people along 1. listen- thinkers and 2. listen- suggesters


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## Celeste (Jul 3, 2011)

MrsKD14 said:


> Sorry I got snappy with yall.
> 
> I guess a lot of DIY projects sound great at 2 in the morning while folding your second box of 500 of panties at work.


Is that what they call "getting your panties in a wad"?:wink:


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