# Buckskin..Dun..Dunskin?



## KennyRogersPaints (Jan 9, 2011)

I have a filly who is registered as a buckskin, but I am starting to get curious. Her sire is a palomino and her dam is a dun (I do not know color genetics on either or them) but I have noticed a few dun characteristics on this filly (dorsal stripe, slight cobwebbing, slight shoulder barring, and prominent leg barring.) I don't have too many pictures of the specific areas at the moment, but if you visit my profile I have pictures of the filly. Thank you!


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

From the pictures posted, she just looks buckskin to me. If you could get pictures of the spots your talking about, thatd really be helpful. Right now, based on what i see, shes buckskin.

Also a dorsal and shoulder barring can be caused by countershading and isnt always an indication of the dun gene being present.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Just from the quick glance at your mare "Doll" I really don't see anything on her that says she has dun. I just see a buckskin.


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## BlackCricket (Oct 20, 2011)

I, too, would want better pictures. From those, I'd go either way...she's a cutie!


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## Crimsons Clover (Mar 30, 2012)

I see a dorsal stripe allright, and if you see barring on the legs I'd go with dun. Dun is dominante(a dun horse plus a dun horse= a dun horse) so have a baby to prove it?(mostly joking)


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*cough* I would NOT breed to "prove" a color. If you want to know for sure on _any_ horse, pull the hairs and send them to be tested. So very much cheaper than breeding...


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## Crimsons Clover (Mar 30, 2012)

I said I was kiddig 
horsetesting.com doesn;t offer a test for it, I'm guessing UC Davis does though.

With that dorsal strip there are only three options(just skimming the basics here)
-Dunskin(carries dun and creme gene over a bay base)
-Dun(carries dun gene over a bay base)
-Smokey Buckskin(Carries the smokey and creme gene over a bay base)


Then again it could be any combination of those three...that's the joy of color genetics isn't it?


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## KennyRogersPaints (Jan 9, 2011)

Thank you all for your input! I was thinking about color testing her maybe, just for hahas, but it's not that important to me. I will post more pictures when I get a chance!


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Counter shading can and does appear on any horse. Only, and I mean _only_ on horses carrying dun it is considered a dorsal.

Smokey buckskin? Are you meaning smokey brown/brown skin? Because cream + bay = buckskin not smokey buckskin.


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## Crimsons Clover (Mar 30, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Counter shading can and does appear on any horse. Only, and I mean _only_ on horses carrying dun it is considered a dorsal.
> 
> Smokey buckskin? Are you meaning smokey brown/brown skin? Because cream + bay = buckskin not smokey buckskin.


 The smokey gene is what causes the counter shading hence a smokey buckskin being bay, creme and the smokey gene. 

It's still a dorsal stripe, it's a stripe going dowen the dorsal aspect of the horse. For breed registries i suppose it isn't. I consider the dun version to be a dun stripe...but let's not argue over terminology. Some say chestnut some say sorrel


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

There is no "smokey gene" that causes counter shading. I don't know where you got that, but that is completely false.


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## Crimsons Clover (Mar 30, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> There is no "smokey gene" that causes counter shading. I don't know where you got that, but that is completely false.


 Just beacuse it isn't mapped yet doesn't mean it doesn't exisit. 

And I use gene loosely, it could be a combination of genetic factors.

There are also other names includeing smutty, sooty, and sometimes mealy though I think of that in a different way than I do the others.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sorry but no.

Smokey is used in reference of cream on blacks and browns.

Sooty and smutty can be interchanged. Smokey... not so much. 

Any horse that is not a dun does not have a dorsal stripe. They have counter-shading. Counter-shading is not caused by sooty/smutty or the "smokey gene." It is just a primitive marking that happens to be visible.


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## Crimsons Clover (Mar 30, 2012)

at this point we're getting into that old chestnut vs sorrel argument that really doesn't go anywhere. 

Terminology differences aside, this horses "dorsal Stripe" is either a true dun marking or counter shading, but in conjunction with other dun type markings and the fact that the parents were palomino and dun I'd go with dunskin. That's just what I see from the photos. But who knows? Could be any number of things.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Well considering there is no genetic distinction between chestnut in sorrel I don't see how this can compare to that...


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I'm sorry but this is almost as crazy as the "satin gene"... When science proves it, I will acknowledge it as a real gene.. Gene is not a word I use loosely.. if it's not proven, it doesn't exist yet..Period..

NdAppy is very knowledgeable when it comes to horse genetics and colors, she doesn't go with opinions and loose terms..She uses facts.. I'll go with facts over opinion any day.


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## Crimsons Clover (Mar 30, 2012)

OP asked for opinions


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I am just shaking my head..


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

First of all, you can breed two duns together and not get a dun foal. One or both of the parents would have to be homozygous dun for the foal to always be a dun. If both parents are heterozygous, they have a 50-50 chance of Dun being passed on, which leaves a 25% chance of a foal not receiving it from either parent. 

Second, I agree with DrumRunner and NdAppy: Smutty and sooty are interchangeable, but smokey certainly isn't and neither is mealy, which is something entirely different. I'm not sure who told you smokey meant the same as sooty/smutty, but they were incorrect.

Anyway, I do not see a dunskin. I just see buckskin.


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

From the last pic (of her butt) it's possible she is buckskin dun. Better pics would help, but I wouldn't rule it out.


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