# Strangles! **picture** is gross. Riding question concerning the strangles as well.



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

That is horrible! I'd also be ****ed that my horse came back from the trainer's like that. Was this horse vaccinated against strangles as a foal?

Did you contact the trainer and let them know your horse contracted strangles there so they can notify everyone at the stable to be on the lookout for signs for their own horses?

I'm glad your horse is okay though and that you caught this fairly quickly

BTW: That picture is just nasty. LoL.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

To answer you question about competing. You should not remove your horse from the premises until the last horse has been clear of any signs of strangles for 30 days at least. The vet should have quarantined your place so that no horses come in and none go out for the duration.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

CLaPorte432 said:


> That is horrible! I'd also be ****ed that my horse came back from the trainer's like that. Was this horse vaccinated against strangles as a foal?
> 
> Did you contact the trainer and let them know your horse contracted strangles there so they can notify everyone at the stable to be on the lookout for signs for their own horses?
> 
> ...


I did notify her. She was really calm about it though. She said "She should be okay its just like chicken pox for humans and she probably wont get it again." She was apologizing about it too. I'm not real worried. I mean this is just something horses get and a lot of the time they come out fine. But I'll just keep watching closely and making sure they stay that way. I don't think it was the trainers fault either, she kept her separate from most of the horses. 


I am not sure if she was vaced when she was a foal. She's eight now and I have only had her coming up on three years this month, I just didn't get there shots this year yet. For all I know it could have been laying dormant for a year or so then being in and around a new stall, barn other horse smells ect it decided to rear its ugliness lol.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> To answer you question about competing. You should not remove your horse from the premises until the last horse has been clear of any signs of strangles for 30 days at least. The vet should have quarantined your place so that no horses come in and none go out for the duration.


There's no other horses around. Except for the ones about a block down the road which my horses haven't had contact with since the last time I rode with them and that was before my mare who had the strangles came home. They haven't been out of the pasture other then to the tying post to get there sores cleaned and haven't come into contact with any other horses at all for the past 2 weeks. I am taking all the precautions though, disinfection everything cleaning out there water trough every day there feed bowls ect. So if any other horse gets it it'll be beyond me how they got it. Because they've been no where near my sick horses. Both my horses are quarantined together at this point and have been for the past 2 weeks.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Strangles _can_ be far worse than chicken pox to a human and it is extremely contagiouse. How soon you can ride them depends on the indivudual horse. Once the absesses have drained, fully scabbed over, etc., it is usually obviouse they are "doing better", but a bad case can take a lot out of them. They may look 100 percent, but will tire more easily and just need more "rest". When you do finally ride (after they have fully recovered), just make it short and really pay attention to your horse's overall health to determine how "back on the step" they are. It is pretty rare, but they can get ******* strangles. More common, they get some easily curable respiratory infection or "something" b/c their immune system was weakened.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

Missy May said:


> Strangles _can_ be far worse than chicken pox to a human and it is extremely contagiouse. How soon you can ride them depends on the indivudual horse. Once the absesses have drained, fully scabbed over, etc., it is usually obviouse they are "doing better", but a bad case can take a lot out of them. They may look 100 percent, but will tire more easily and just need more "rest". When you do finally ride (after they have fully recovered), just make it short and really pay attention to your horse's overall health to determine how "back on the step" they are. It is pretty rare, but they can get ******* strangles. More common, they get some easily curable respiratory infection or "something" b/c their immune system was weakened.


I do know about ******* strangles and only 20% of horses get them who have strangles and sometimes don't recover from it. I also heard and read working them to hard after they have recovered can cause them to get pneumonia or "something" like you described that is usually treatable. As for the chicken pox saying. I meant as they only get it once and you probably wont have to worry about it again. I am keeping and eye on them and right now they seem to be doing fine. If any of that changes we're back to the vets again. I plan on after the abscess are healed and gone, to get a check up for both horses just to make sure there healthy enough to be ridden. Then ask the vet what to do as riding wise. As I said I have never delt with this before I'm a first time dealer with strangles and I hope I never have to do it again. Not something you wanna wake up too lol.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

Your horses probably didn't enjoy waking up to it either. If my horses came back from the trainer's with strangles we'd be having words. But that wouldn't happen, because my horses get strangles vaccine every single year regardless of their age. We've never had a case. I don't view it as just "something horses get."

I realize that some people don't vaccinate because they are afraid that their horse will get strangles from the vaccine. My vet has told me that it's never happened in his practice. Those odds are good enough for me. Nothing is ever 100% safe. All I know is strangles are 100% miserable and there is a means of preventing the problem. My horses are off the farm at least once every single week and constantly exposed to other horses. Why take the risk?


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

HagonNag said:


> Your horses probably didn't enjoy waking up to it either. If my horses came back from the trainer's with strangles we'd be having words. But that wouldn't happen, because my horses get strangles vaccine every single year regardless of their age. We've never had a case. I don't view it as just "something horses get."
> 
> I realize that some people don't vaccinate because they are afraid that their horse will get strangles from the vaccine. My vet has told me that it's never happened in his practice. Those odds are good enough for me. Nothing is ever 100% safe. All I know is strangles are 100% miserable and there is a means of preventing the problem. My horses are off the farm at least once every single week and constantly exposed to other horses. Why take the risk?



I didn't say I didn't get them vaccinated....... I just haven't done it this year. She got it yes, but it wasn't the trainers fault. She probably didn't know she had a horse who had it. Who knows it could have been my horse who brought it, therefor if it was anybody's fault it would have been mine. It's an accident that happens. She said she didn't have any horses showing any signs yet or before. So I am not sure of where my horse got it.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Baylen Jaxs said:


> I didn't say I didn't get them vaccinated....... I just haven't done it this year. She got it yes, but it wasn't the trainers fault. She probably didn't know she had a horse who had it. Who knows it could have been my horse who brought it, therefor if it was anybody's fault it would have been mine. It's an accident that happens. She said she didn't have any horses showing any signs yet or before. So I am not sure of where my horse got it.


What accident???

This is neglect on many levels.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

Ripper said:


> What accident???
> 
> This is neglect on many levels.


How in the world is this neglect? I couldn't have seen this coming from a mile a head. Horses who are ON the vaccine can get strangles anyway the vaccine only protects so much. My horse got it yes, but it wasn't because "I" was neglectful it was just because out of the blue it happened. I am going all I need to do to keep my horses healthy from here on out. I did no such thing has neglecting them.


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

My vet has discouraged us from vaccinating our horses for it. One of our neighbor's horses had strangles and only a field fence separates our horses. That was two years ago and my horses never caught it, thankfully. I have serious concerns about my vet's recommendation.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Baylen Jaxs said:


> How in the world is this neglect? I couldn't have seen this coming from a mile a head. Horses who are ON the vaccine can get strangles anyway the vaccine only protects so much. My horse got it yes, but it wasn't because "I" was neglectful it was just because out of the blue it happened. I am going all I need to do to keep my horses healthy from here on out. I did no such thing has neglecting them.


No horse should have been in the trainer's barn without proof of vaccinations and current heath certificates.

That means his horses too.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My vets won't do it as prevention because a horse can develop full blown strangles. I lost a horse to strangles. He seemed to be an isolated case and in a close horse community everyone knows what happens at someone else's barn. In my horse's case it attacked the muscles and tendons in his hind legs. His fetlocks began to almost touch the ground. Within 24 hrs his heels had developed huge cracks. He was put down as the prognosis was poor. This happened after his spark and his appetite returned.


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

Saddlebag....that is so sad!!!! My neighbor's horse recovered but it was very scary to watch it go through the illness. I think the owner suffered as much as the horse!


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

That's horrible, saddlebag.

Baylen, I'm sorry this happened to you. Sounds like you and your vet have it under control. I'm glad your horses are doing better.. Keep your head up, girl!

I agree with making sure there are no symptoms in any of your horses for 30 days before possible exposing someone else's horses ... better safe than sorry.

Nasty stuff!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Baylen Jaxs said:


> There's no other horses around. Except for the ones about a block down the road which my horses haven't had contact with since the last time I rode with them and that was before my mare who had the strangles came home. They haven't been out of the pasture other then to the tying post to get there sores cleaned and haven't come into contact with any other horses at all for the past 2 weeks. I am taking all the precautions though, disinfection everything cleaning out there water trough every day there feed bowls ect. So if any other horse gets it it'll be beyond me how they got it. Because they've been no where near my sick horses. Both my horses are quarantined together at this point and have been for the past 2 weeks.


Strangles sucks for sure. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. One thing I have done after strangles ran through my barn is to wash it down with bleach and water and I stripped out all the matting and put ag lime on the floor and then rematted after disinfecting the mats. I keep a foot bath just outside the door to the barn and require folks to use it. Except that you say you haven't vaccinated this year, which I take means the vet hasn't been out to your place, I would say the vet may have brought it on your place. That's how it came to me. He visited a farm, treated several horses with strangles and came over to my place. I know he's meticulous but had I known where he'd just been I'd have cancelled my visit. It DOES just happen. 

I use the IN form of the vaccine, had too many bad reactions with the injectable version, so I've only started re-vaccinating against it in the last couple of years since the IN form became available. In all the time I wasn't vaccinating, I never had a problem. 2 years in on the new vacs and it ran through my barn. I figure they got off pretty light instead of getting the full beastly thing, and my horses recuperated just fine. I have friends who have not been as lucky, so it's a crap shoot anyhow you look at it. 

And as for "They won't get it again.", that's not really true. BUT if they do get it again, it will likely be a pretty light case because of immunity they've built up.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> My vets won't do it as prevention because a horse can develop full blown strangles. I lost a horse to strangles. He seemed to be an isolated case and in a close horse community everyone knows what happens at someone else's barn. In my horse's case it attacked the muscles and tendons in his hind legs. His fetlocks began to almost touch the ground. Within 24 hrs his heels had developed huge cracks. He was put down as the prognosis was poor. This happened after his spark and his appetite returned.


D: I am sorry for your loss. Having a sick horse is never fun. I can't imagine what you went through :/.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I do not vaccinate most horses for Strangles. I only vaccinate horses going to a barn or a trainer where I think there is a good chance of exposure and/or there is a sale or show deadline that makes getting Strangles a financial disaster.

I have seen two horses die (not mine) from the vaccinations. Horses can get a potentially fatal complication following a case of Strangles or a vaccination that is called Pupura Hemoragica. Many horses die that get this complication. It is very difficult to treat for some horses. 

I have doctored horses through several severe Strangles outbreaks. Not cheap and not easy, but -- knock on wood -- all have survived through great effort. The horses that I have watched with Pupura were a lot sicker.

One thing the OP should consider is that some horses can recover and still shed the Strep Bacteria that causes Strangles for several weeks and occasionally several months. They become 'inapparent carriers' and can get other horses sick. A nasal swab done a week or two after all symptoms have cleared up should tell you if your horse is still carrying the Strep organism.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Strangles in Horses

Here is a lot of information.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

Ripper said:


> Strangles in Horses
> 
> Here is a lot of information.


I've read that page thrice over. And how ever many more I could find and talked to people who have had horses who have had strangles and I have talked to not 1 but 3 vets. I know about strangles. It was out of the blue complete "OMG" she got it. It's over and she's healing and is on the road to recovery along with my other horse. I am taking all the precautions I need too. I did not nor will I ever neglect my horses. This was a complete accident that she got it. I had no idea neither did the trainer.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Baylen, you don't owe anyone an explanation. Strangles can hit anyone's barn.

I'm glad your horses are better.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

texasgal said:


> Baylen, you don't owe anyone an explanation. Strangles can hit anyone's barn.
> 
> I'm glad your horses are better.


Thanks =)!


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

Ripper -- One of the most accurate articles I have read.

It does miss that there are actually 2 strains of Strep. I have had 2 different outbreaks of the second (and nearly as common) strain called Strptococcus Zooepidemicus. I went round and round with the lab at CSU (Colorado State University) when I had a huge outbreak that included many horses that had been vaccinated. It also presented in a slightly different manner than the Strangles cases I had seen previously. Finally, I sent a swab of an abscess to Davis California and they identified the organism and Strep. Zoo. I could find no information about it at that time, but they sent me a lot of info. Turned out, I had another outbreak of it after I moved to OK. There is no vaccine for it, but if a horse has had Strangles Vaccinations, they get a lighter case of it.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Baylen, you don't owe anyone an explanation. Strangles can hit anyone's barn.
> 
> I'm glad your horses are better.


Strangel can hit any one's barn.

That is why I would never leave a horse there without know all the horses there have current health documents.


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## Baylen Jaxs (Jun 25, 2011)

Ripper said:


> Strangel can hit any one's barn.
> 
> That is why I would never leave a horse there without know all the horses there have current health documents.


That's you okay. I am not being rude or at least I am not trying to be. But that is your way and method of doing things. There my horses so I do things differently. I trusted the trainer and no she didn't let me down she didn't even know so its not her fault. I don't have to justify my actions to you because you don't need them. I did what I did and I am paying the consequences so are my horses. It was a one time mistake never to happen again. It is over and done with and being delt with. I would very much appreciate you stopping please.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Baylen Jaxs said:


> That's you okay. I am not being rude or at least I am not trying to be. But that is your way and method of doing things. There my horses so I do things differently. I trusted the trainer and no she didn't let me down she didn't even know so its not her fault. I don't have to justify my actions to you because you don't need them. I did what I did and I am paying the consequences so are my horses. It was a one time mistake never to happen again. It is over and done with and being delt with. I would very much appreciate you stopping please.


Stop what???

You posted this on an open forum.

Looks like I hit a nerve.

The important thing is you learned.

IMO, to leave it out there as an "accident" is misinformation.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

Cherie said:


> Ripper -- One of the most accurate articles I have read.
> 
> It does miss that there are actually 2 strains of Strep. I have had 2 different outbreaks of the second (and nearly as common) strain called Strptococcus Zooepidemicus. I went round and round with the lab at CSU (Colorado State University) when I had a huge outbreak that included many horses that had been vaccinated. It also presented in a slightly different manner than the Strangles cases I had seen previously. Finally, I sent a swab of an abscess to Davis California and they identified the organism and Strep. Zoo. I could find no information about it at that time, but they sent me a lot of info. Turned out, I had another outbreak of it after I moved to OK. There is no vaccine for it, but if a horse has had Strangles Vaccinations, they get a lighter case of it.


Thanks.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Ripper, you are arguing semantics.

Accident by definition is an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; 
or,
any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.

Nobody intentionally or deliberately gave this horse strangles. It was unexpected and unfortunate. It was, by definition, an accident.


She calls it an accident, meaning it wasn't intentional. Her horse, her experience, her definition. She doesn't blame anyone .. why should we?

imo


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Baylen - I just want to say I really, REALLY love your attitude about the situation!

"Stuff happens, you move on."


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

mls said:


> Baylen - I just want to say I really, REALLY love your attitude about the situation!
> 
> "Stuff happens, you move on."


Baylen is not only moving on.

Baylen is correcting the situation.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Ripper said:


> Baylen is not only moving on.
> 
> Baylen is correcting the situation.


 
I have to agree w you, ripper. People running boarding/training establishments have an obligation to ensure any horse that enters their facility is utd on shots. This isn't hard, there is almost always a paper trail for shots. 

If I were Baylen, I would be upset w the trainer. If Baylen were unaware this could occur, fine - but the trainer definitely should have been fully aware it could happen and have required documented evidence of an appropriate shot record _before_ taking her horses onto the premises.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have been on both ends of the situation. The major outbreak I had of Strep. Zoo. was at my professional training stable and stallion station. About half of the horses that got sick had been vaccinated. We were never sure which horse brought it in. We really thought it could have been an inaparant carrier that had only been a carrier.

The last round I had about 5 years ago started when a visiting mare with current health papers (and owned by someone we knew well, came in healthy. About 6 days after she came in, she was hanging her head with snot running and slimy slobbers hanging from her mouth. I took her temp and it was 105. She was sick as a dog and was in with 6 or 7 other mares -- about half mine and about half visitors.

We immediately put her and the other mares out in a hayfield that was at least 100 yards from a fence with other horses next to it. 

We contained it to the original mares that were in together. We called the owner and he swore he did not know where it came from. A few days later, he called back. His other horses were all sick and he found that the neighbor behind his place (on a different County Road) had lost 3 horses. They had gotten sick after a horse came in from a cutting horse sale in Fort Worth at the NCHA Super Stakes. We did not lose any, but I spent about $1000.00 in antibiotics and supportive therapy, lost 3 or 4 stud fees and quite a bit of other costs. It was probably the worst strain we have ever had. Again, some of the horses that go sick had been give the IN Strep Equi vaccine. I don't know if it was Strep Equi or Strep Zoo. Sending off cultures was not going to do a thing for them, so I didn't.

I know that Strangles vaccinations are never 100% effective and only cover one strain. That along with the chance of getting Purpura from the vaccination alone has told us it is just a crap shoot. If you have enough horses for enough years, you ARE going to run into it. 

When trainers are going to a lot of shows and have a high volume of horses coming and going, the risk of the vaccination is probably worth it. Even then, you have to recognize that is only covers the most common and lightest strain. 

I am a lot more comfortable with Flu vaccinations and give them 2 or 3 times a year to every horse we are riding.


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## HagonNag (Jul 17, 2010)

I think I owe an apology to Baylen and I'm getting an education. To my knowledge there hasn't been a strangles case in our area in a long time. In my ignorance, I just assumed that the immunizations were taking care of it.
Apologies, Baylen. Thanks, Cherie.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I've had 2 cases of it with Angela's horses, Pat. One last year and one the year before.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

Ripper said:


> Baylen is not only moving on.
> 
> Baylen is correcting the situation.


She is moving on. She is not dwelling on the situation with a 'poor me' attitude.


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