# Horse trainer abuse



## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Doobie said:


> I started popping in on the barn every now and then and the last time I popped in, my mare was limping and her sides were bleeding from spur marks.
> 
> Am I out of line for being upset?


You are not out of line, and had I seen that with my own horses, I would have turned around and got my horse trailer immediately and took my horse home. 

NEVER should you draw blood with spurs. NEVER. 

I would also be stubborn / mad enough that I would not pay her for the rest that was owed and would gladly take her to court over abuse of my horse if she tried to collect.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

You're not being unreasonable at all. I don't think any trainer worth their salt should need to draw blood to train a horse.


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## Natalie Ryan (Dec 30, 2020)

Spurs are meant to be a tool to add extra motivation to your leg cues. It should never take more than a light tap at any one point in time. If your horse is bleeding due to spurs, there is something seriously messed up going on. No horse should _*ever *_bleed because of spurs.

In no way, shape, or form are you being unreasonable. She injured your horse. No horse should need to go through that pain, _especially _a client's horse. In your shoes, I'd probably have an attorney send a letter instead of a check too. I'd probably go further too and ask for her to pay for the vet bills and checkup.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

Get your horse out of there. Blood is absolutely unacceptable. If it were me, I'd show up unannounced with a horse trailer and just take my horse home. Then work out who pays for what. You may still be on the hook for payment since your contract may not provide for this kind of a situation. In that case, pay up, and then go after this trainer for expenses. Alternatively, you could probably have your lawyer send her a letter threatening to pursue legal action and see if she will wave whatever you are owed. But at this point, my priority would be to get the horse out of there - money would be the least of my concerns. If you want to fight that battle then by all means do, but get your horse to safety first. And document these injuries!


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Oh poor baby am glad you got her out :< Mad?! I thought I've had some funny stuff but physical ABUSE? Yes I'd be mad. I'd be taking photos and smearing them.


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## Jolly101 (Jul 2, 2018)

No you are completely justified. There are unfortunately many poor trainers out there with a reputation, but without actual adequate qualifications or technique. 

I'd be upset if that were my horse and my money. I've had a bit of a different, but similar scenario. My horse was supposed to be trained for 3 months and I ended it at one month due to the trainer referencing that all he did was the "bending exercises from CA" and seeing how rough he was with my horse. No thanks, good training isn't forcing a horse and it isn't following a formula. 

Contacting a lawyer isn't a bad idea, but I'm not sure if actually pursuing a lawsuit would follow through unless you have adequate evidence; however, getting one to send a letter could work in your favor, as Acadianartist suggested. If it were me, I'd also let people know about what happened to potentially spare their horse's the same treatment, but that could also start up drama. First priority is to get your horse out asap though!


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## Doobie (Apr 15, 2021)

My horse is home, the trainer brought her to me the next day. She tried to talk to me but I told her to give me my horse and get off my property. I also took pictures of the spur marks but they had been cleaned up since I saw her the day before. The bloody holes were still there along with marks but didn't look as bad. 
I want to thank everyone for your support. I'll keep you guys updated as this unfolds.


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## Doobie (Apr 15, 2021)




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## Doobie (Apr 15, 2021)

I didn't mean to post that picture twice, sorry.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Animal abuse. Not training. Abuse. You did the right thing.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

I'd be saving all pictures you can get, in case she tries to get the rest of her money. 
Not okay!!!!


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

Not unreasonable at all. I would suggest you take photos of the injuries and have a vet see her. If you do have to get a lawyer, you know she will deny everything.


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## newtrailriders (Apr 2, 2017)

I'm so sorry that happened to your horse. Hugs to both of you!


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

I've ridden a very thin-skinned horse who needed a lot of, shall we say, "spur contact" at times, as he was big on testing his rider. He constantly got rubs from bridles, girths, anything, no matter how well they fit him. Extremely thin, sensitive skin. And even with the amount of spurring it could sometimes take with him, I never once broke even his very fragile skin. Not once. I can't fathom what it would take to do that kind of damage. I'm so sorry this happened to you and your horse!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

charrorider said:


> Not unreasonable at all. I would suggest you take photos of the injuries and have a vet see her. If you do have to get a lawyer, you know she will deny everything.


Yes, if you are planning on pursuing this either to avoid paying the trainer, or to make any kind of claim of abuse, you should bring a vet in asap to document the abuse. Otherwise, it's your word against hers, and she might say that those injuries were caused by something else even though she already said they were done by spurs.


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## Whinnie (Aug 9, 2015)

Good idea to see a vet. A vet report on the injuries will be valuable down the road.


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## AragoASB (Jul 12, 2020)

It looks like the horse has been body clipped, too, so those spurs really dug in. And being grey the wounds really show up. It makes me wonder how many horses at trainers or even owner's barns have spur wounds that have not been discovered.


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## barrelracerqueen007 (Mar 2, 2021)

Doobie said:


> Hi, I'm new here and looking to see if I'm being unreasonable about a trainer. I took an aged mare to a trainer to ride. I did everything with the mare, lunging, saddling, standing tied, etc. The trainer said she could have her riding in 3 months. I started getting concerned about 2 months in that nothing was happening that the mare didn't already know. I started popping in on the barn every now and then and the last time I popped in, my mare was limping and her sides were bleeding from spur marks. I asked the trainer why she was bleeding and she told me it was from spurs. I went home and thought about it for awhile then texted her and told her my mare had had enough, she could bring her home or I would have my guys come get her. I was so upset and crying that I couldn't even talk to this woman.
> 
> Am I out of line for being upset? I owe her for half a month and a trimming (my farrier said no way this mare had been trimmed) and I'm thinking of having my attorney send her a letter as opposed to a check.
> 
> ...


I agree with you 100%. That is not ok to do that to a horse and a trainer should obviously not treat horses like that. Spurs should never ever be used that aggressively to make a horse bleed. I would definitely take this trainer to court for abuse and I would not pay the rest of the fee.


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## JennS (May 12, 2021)

Number one reason I pretty much never let my horses go anywhere with others. And yes that's abuse and not helping you get her safe for you to ride after you did the work getting her to that point.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

Did you check out this "trainer" prior to sending your horse?
Is this a reputable trainer? Meaning, is this trainer showing any horses that he/she's trained so you can see what they do?
Or was this just someone that hung out a sign and proclaimed "I'm a trainer". 
Did you go watch this person at work? Had you been around him/ her before?

There are a LOT of questions to ask yourself before you send a horse and write a check. 

There are trainers, and then there are the wanna-be's. 
Don't feel bad, we all get taken in when getting started. Its no reason to give up on your mare. Just do some homework and then send your horse out.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Zimalia22 said:


> Did you check out this "trainer" prior to sending your horse?
> Is this a reputable trainer? Meaning, is this trainer showing any horses that he/she's trained so you can see what they do?
> Or was this just someone that hung out a sign and proclaimed "I'm a trainer".
> Did you go watch this person at work? Had you been around him/ her before?
> ...


there are 'trainers' in my area, that are soo regarded for the cutting and reining training , that are SOOO abusive. They place in the money in competetions and sell horses in the tens of thousands.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

Just out of curiosity, what is your definition of "soooo abusive"?


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

lets see, tied our mare up , hard and tight, never checked on her, she fell , broke her neck. Tied on concrete pad. 
Two horses came home with bloody spur marks on their sides. Both had silver dollar size sores on their mouths, not just the outside corners but insides also. Sores under their jaws. Scars on legs from hobbles. SO YES.. The guy is sooo abusive.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

stevenson said:


> lets see, tied our mare up , hard and tight, never checked on her, she fell , broke her neck. Tied on concrete pad.
> Two horses came home with bloody spur marks on their sides. Both had silver dollar size sores on their mouths, not just the outside corners but insides also. Sores under their jaws. Scars on legs from hobbles. SO YES.. The guy is sooo abusive.


Yep, I agree, that's uncalled for.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Just FYI folks that this original thread was started 6 months ago.


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## its lbs not miles (Sep 1, 2011)

Doobie said:


> Hi, I'm new here and looking to see if I'm being unreasonable about a trainer. I took an aged mare to a trainer to ride. I did everything with the mare, lunging, saddling, standing tied, etc. The trainer said she could have her riding in 3 months. I started getting concerned about 2 months in that nothing was happening that the mare didn't already know. I started popping in on the barn every now and then and the last time I popped in, my mare was limping and her sides were bleeding from spur marks. I asked the trainer why she was bleeding and she told me it was from spurs. I went home and thought about it for awhile then texted her and told her my mare had had enough, she could bring her home or I would have my guys come get her. I was so upset and crying that I couldn't even talk to this woman.
> 
> Am I out of line for being upset? I owe her for half a month and a trimming (my farrier said no way this mare had been trimmed) and I'm thinking of having my attorney send her a letter as opposed to a check.
> 
> ...


Like most most responders here, I would not leave any horse with that person. The first thing that comes to my mind is why does a horse trainer need to use spurs? I started training my first mare at 14 (1971). My first stallion at 18. Last horse I've trained was 2016 (it's become just a retirement hobby for me now). I've moved cattle, bushwhacked through swamp, hunted from horse back, ridden more miles down roads and highways that could ever calculate, and I've yet to find a situation where anything more than the heal of my foot (or shoe) was needed and even that is not common since, depending on what you want from the horse, leg pressure, a rein against the neck, a click of the tongue, even just hand push on the withers is generally what should be the goal in training and is all that's needed on a trained horse.. A reputable, experienced, knowledgeable horse trainer should not need spurs. If they actually need spurs to train a horse, then they need training more than the horses do.


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## JuiceThaGhostt (6 mo ago)

Doobie said:


> Hi, I'm new here and looking to see if I'm being unreasonable about a trainer. I took an aged mare to a trainer to ride. I did everything with the mare, lunging, saddling, standing tied, etc. The trainer said she could have her riding in 3 months. I started getting concerned about 2 months in that nothing was happening that the mare didn't already know. I started popping in on the barn every now and then and the last time I popped in, my mare was limping and her sides were bleeding from spur marks. I asked the trainer why she was bleeding and she told me it was from spurs. I went home and thought about it for awhile then texted her and told her my mare had had enough, she could bring her home or I would have my guys come get her. I was so upset and crying that I couldn't even talk to this woman.
> 
> Am I out of line for being upset? I owe her for half a month and a trimming (my farrier said no way this mare had been trimmed) and I'm thinking of having my attorney send her a letter as opposed to a check.
> 
> ...



First , You handled that way more professional and calm than I would have! Kudos for that!!

Second , you're not wrong one bit!!! The anger you felt and still feel I'm sure, You're absolutely NOT wrong for!! In anyway! You followed your intuition about your mare, you knew something wasn't the same.

Lastly, SEND THAT LETTER!!!! And YESSSS YESS YESSS TO THE LAWYER!
I feel for you and your mare! I walked into a barn I was training for at the time.. I could hear screeching , screaming (I won't continue cause it still breaks my heart) and the other Trainor was supposed to be in the indoor.
I start hauling hiney down to the noise , Just to run in behind said person, Whipping smacking kicking a clients horse! I didn't think twice , I grabbed a shovel and swung. The rest isn't appropriate to share here. He got a fantastic whoppin' by me, And a black listed name as a trainer for eternity.

Any abuse towards any living creature is disgraceful on its own.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

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