# Owner won't contact me back....



## HombresArablegacy

Did you actually visit and inspect this horse before agreeing to buy it? Talk to the seller in person ?

If not, and all your communication with the seller has been via text/email etc, there's a good chance you've been scammed. The red flag for me is that you apparently made payments to the seller via Walmart wire transfers??? Huge red flag. 

If in fact you have been scammed, not sure what your remedies are. But it would constitute bank wire fraud across state lines for the seller. If you found the horse in an online ad, I'd start doing some research online. If you've truly been scammed, you most likely will find the same horse listed for sale in other states, in different ads. 

NEVER pay for a horse or anything else in advance with a wire transfer, as it's a sure sign of fraud.
For now, your best bet is to contact the police and file a report, they can advise you as to how to proceed from there. Good luck.


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## walkinthewalk

I gotta agree with *HombresArabLegacy *

I would contact your local & state police, then the Illinois Bureau of Investigation to see if any of them can help you.

Also, don't be surprised if the person isn't in Ohio, even if that's how the number showed on your cell phone.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Not defending this seller, as it does sound like a scam, but not all wire transfers are fraud. I sold a horse to someone in CA who set a bunch of deadlines and missed every one of them (for when she would return the signed contract, when she would send the deposit check, when she would set up the PPE at the vet and finally when she would send the payment). The hauler was sitting here in my driveway to pick up the horse and I STILL had no contract, no payment, nada. I required the buyer to wire me money via Western Union and fax all pertinent paperwork the same. I wasn't about to let that horse get on the trailer, even though the hauler was a friend of mine, until I had cash and paperwork in hand.


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## daystar88

Did this person ask for you info such as address, phone number, and for you to transfer the money? Also most scammers use the same method. They give a sad tale on how someone in their family died and they need to get rid of their horses or they went on a business trip and can't take care of their horses. 

I hope this isn't a scam for your sake!


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## Bugaboo

I really hope it's not a scam too, but she still has me as friends on facebook and she has posted on her facebook several times about how "this horse is going to be going to her new home soon" and "how much I'm gonna miss this girl". She has been generally very helpful about getting things done, it's just like she hasn't even gotten on facebook the last several days. She's made posts in public groups looking for local vets so she can get a coggins done and whatnot.

She has sent me a couple videos of the mare and I haven't seen the ad in any other groups and I'm in all the groups she is. So I'm really stuck between just giving her time to be able to get back on the internet and calling in the ag dept to see what I can do. I don't want to just go at it threateningly and cause a huge issue, but I just want to get this mare home (assuming she is there and well).

Also, she has asked me for my address for mailing things.


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## daystar88

Of so you found her over Facebook. How many days has it been since you guys contacted each other?


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## Bugaboo

Yeah, over facebook I found her ad. She had been in hospital for a couple days and messaged me about that apologizing and said she would reschedule the vet appointment and that was Oct 8th, and I've messaged her a few times since, but it shows that she hasn't even been on facebook.

I don't want to get super creepy and start trying to message her family, which there are quite a few in Ohio, but I'm on my last "non-legal action taking" leg here.


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## KigerQueen

i would message her and tell her to please get back to you. that if you dont hear back be X date you will consider this to be a scam and be forced to take legal action to get your money back. also inform her that you would VERY MUCH rather not but after not hearing back from her for X amount of days you are at the end of your rope.


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## daystar88

I'd contact the family before anything else. There could easily be a good reason for her not getting back to you.


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## Bugaboo

I do like KingerQueens idea, but daystar88 has a point that has stopped me from taking any legal action yet. It seems like she having financial trouble, has a young 2 year old kid (she is on the younger side herself - 2 years younger than me), and yada yada, so I haven't been pushing as hard as I could as she may be having some trouble and unable to contact me, but I'm still just very anxious and frustrated about this.

I had a feeling I should have just made the 7 hour trip myself initially instead of trying to work out getting a shipper. It was just more the convenience that drove me to getting a shipper. It's like...if she would just get on and see my messages, I've already told her I would just find a weekend and make the drive out to pick her up myself.

I still don't feel she is necessarily trying to scam me or anything like that, but I am just coming quickly to the end of my rope and want to research my options before I go making any sudden/ration/irreversible decisions.


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## edf

Maybe she is in the hospital again. I would like ot think she would have enough sense to at least tell you, but perhaps phone is dead/no way to really contact you. Now, it's not fair for you to have no contact, but maybe she is in a situation where she can't. 

If you are friends with her on facebook- perhaps post on her wall asking what is up like 'Hey, I haven't heard from you in a while to finish the sale of the horse, is eveything ok? Just let me know'- if something bad happened, I would assume family- if they use facebook and are friends with her- will chime in and mention something. I'd keep it simple and since it is public, don't post the whole you have X amount of time- that should be done privately. If she is in a situation where she cannot respond, perhaps some one will respond on her behalf. But on the other hand- if I was in her shoes and took money for a sale of an animal, if I couldn't respond, I'd make sure someone else did ( provided I wasn't in a coma or something)

I used to breed and sell snakes, and I myself was contacted by a buyer due to my FB friend selling a snake and there was a no contact issue from the seller after money was sent by the buyer. I honestly hadn't heard from him in a while and stated so, but I also stated I would reach out to him as well. I never heard back from the guy who was my FB friend, but I tried to to help the buyer to either get the snake or refund the money. I'd like to think if you posted on her page someone would help contact her as well- be it to make sure her reputation doesn't get ruined or to make sure nothing major is wrong.

Good luck. I hope things work out in the end for you!


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## Bugaboo

Thanks, edf. I just posted on her page today (5 hours ago), but there has been no response at all, so I'm not really sure what is going.

I think she really should have let me know somehow that she would be unable to respond to me, but who knows. The main thing I can do is give her a little more time until things either happen or I have to take action.


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## QtrBel

It could be selling a horse that has to be transported and all the sudden needs a vet check for health papers and a current coggins is an issue. It could be she sold the horse to someone else that didn't need the info. Who knows. Give her 24 hours and then if no one replies start looking into it further. I don't understand why a county would require a book that is out of print to be read by every single middle schooler in the district - not just read but have their own copy to annotate but that was my district this year. Of course every local seller had been stripped. I went to a reputable book seller online, found the book for $17 when most copies were in the $30 dollar range and bought it. Got a confirmation email. 24 hours later got a this item has shipped email and then less than 24 after that the seller contacted me to say they were canceling the order because they had better offers for the book. Totally sucked as the next copy was $42 but just a thought. Horse is on FB maybe someone else wanted her and was willing to pay more with less hassle than you. I sincerely hope though that it is nothing serious and it all works out.


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## Textan49

It won't hurt to contact the authorities and find out what action can be taken if you do not hear from her soon. Getting that information doesn't mean that you have to start legal action now, but at least you will be prepared. Unfortunately the seller has the upper hand right now. She has the money and the horse and you need the bill of sale and the paperwork to transport. I hope it works out, but I don't like the sound of one (legitimate sounding) delay in finalizing the deal and now no contact.


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## HombresArablegacy

Try doing a search of her name on both google and Facebook. Both will bring up any past comments about her, whether she has a criminal record, and whether she's pulled this stunt before.


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## Yogiwick

I agree, could definitely be a valid reason. Just the 8th, while obv you are waiting, flies by in a heart beat when something happens.


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## stevenson

How many days has it been ? I would think scammed. 
ask her for your money to be returned if the horse is not shipped in a day.
If she is honest she will get it done.


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## Bugaboo

It's been 8 days since she has been on facebook. I don't really think it would be an issue if she would just get on facebook and see my messages...like, just the fact that she hasn't been on her facebook and there is no activity has me on edge.


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## Yogiwick

Bugaboo said:


> It's been 8 days since she has been on facebook. I don't really think it would be an issue if she would just get on facebook and see my messages...like, just the fact that she hasn't been on her facebook and there is no activity has me on edge.


Look at her past activity, is she on all the time?

I'd give it a few more days, then yes, contact the authorities.

I would definitely give her the benefit of the doubt and post on her page saying that you are getting worried about is being a scam, and you want to trust her but need to look out for yourself too. Or something, just to let her know where you're heads at (I wouldn't say "oh I'm reporting you!" in case she is a scammer and starts covering her tracks, though if that is the case I'm sure she's already trying to.).


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## Bugaboo

Yeah, I've been giving her the benefit thus far, but, it's wearing me down. Her facebook says she hasn't been on at all. Her messenger hasn't been timed in, she hasn't like or posted anything or commented anything.

So I'm really just kind of utterly lost.

And with facebook messenger the way it is, simply messaging family members doesn't mean they'll get the message in their "others" folder and it will still kind of be for naught.


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## flaglermom

If you post on her page, rather than send a message, people who may know her may respond-especially if she is back in the hospital again. Many folks in the hospital are not frequenting FB.


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## Captain Evil

Good luck with this. It sounds nerve-wracking! Even if there is a hold up somewhere, it would be good to know.


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## PoptartShop

Hmmm...could be a scam, but might not be. Odd she hasn't all of a sudden been on Facebook/responded to you. 
I'd message her- why not, she does owe you SOME kind of answer. If she doesn't respond, & a few more days go by...yeah, I'd try to get that handled.
You could try reaching out to the family, but they might not be aware of the horse or even what's going on. I guess give it a try! 
I really hope you didn't get scammed, but nowadays you never know. Ugh. I'm so skeptical of those things!


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## Kay Armstrong

She has your money! She needs to send you a horse! I wouldn't be as nice as everyone else here. You've done everything you are expected to do. It appears she has done nothing. If you sent her money she shouldn't have any reason to not follow through on her end of the deal. I might be making the trip to her farm to see what the hold up is.


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## Tihannah

Wait...is FB the only means you've had for communicating with her?? Do you not have her telephone number and tried to call her?


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## Mulefeather

You have been scammed. Contact the police and let them know, including the police where she lives.

If you'd like some assistance, I research fraud for a living -feel free to PM.


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## AtokaGhosthorse

I have been lurking and reading this forum for weeks without a log in, but felt the need to set up an ID just to comment on this thread.

I am relatively new to owning horses personally. I have been around them quite a bit in my life, but not much in my adult life until the last year. (we now have five adult horses, a weanling, and two, two year olds).

What I am NOT a stranger to are SCAMS. My husband and I own a car/boat dealership (we sell mostly bass boats these days) and my husband, by nature is a trader of anything of value. I am also a legal assistant and have been in this field of work for nearly 20 years.

I feel you've been scammed, just from what I'm reading here. The facebook means nothing - people fake those every day (my then 18 year old daughter introduced me to Catfish on MTV and you'd be astounded how easy it is to fake information and accounts)

I hope for your sake this wasn't a scam, but everything I've ever dealt with through our dealership and the law office tell me you have been. I wouldn't wait to contact the authorities. As hard as it is to accept, you need to take action now or risk the local law enforcement officials being unable to find her at all or recover your money.


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## smrobs

How old is her FB profile? If it's been set up in the last few weeks/months, then she is likely a scammer. If it is several years old, then probably not.

I agree with putting a public note on her timeline (so all of her friends and family can see it) saying something like "I've not been able to contact you and am wanting to talk to you about the horse. Is everything ok? Please contact me". Having been through several instances of either myself or a family member being seriously injured/ill, everything else tends to go out the window and be put on hold until things are settled and everyone is okay and FB takes the last place in my list of priorities. When my brother was almost killed, my family and I spent almost 3 weeks sleeping in the waiting room at the hospital while he was in a coma. If you get nothing from FB, I would start going through the phone book in her town and calling everyone with the same last name asking if they know her and if she is okay. If things start sounding fishy, definitely get in contact with authorities and start the process of nailing her for fraud.


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## Bugaboo

UPDATE:

Alright guys, I've got a little update for those of your commenting and watching the thread.

Her facebook page is well established and I was scrolling through her timelines for any clues on how to contact her and a I came across a post thanking someone (and thankfully tagging them) for trailering her horse to the new barn (she has moved from one town to another in the past 3 months) and I had messaged them last night with a dwindling hope.

Well, she actually messaged me back today! I asked her for any information about her, address, phone number, anything that could be real and she said she didn't have anything except the barn owner's phone number.
So I called the barn owner and she picked up and said that she still has the mare, but the person hasn't been out since she had the mare dropped off a couple months ago. I asked her if she had any info on her as well and she said she didn't, but to call her granddaughter who is the one who keeps in contact with her. I got the BO's address and whatnot just in case..but I texted the granddaughter and she said the only way she actually keeps in touch with her is through facebook, so I got really worried again, thinking it was a dead-end, but she told me to hold on and that she would message the girl's boyfriend (whom she said had just been on) and bam, I get a message from the horse's owner.

Said she had been locked out of her facebook and didn't know why (which would make sense with her absence) and that she was having trouble finding a vet that would let her do payments to get the coggins/health cert done, but hadn't been able to find one yet and didn't want to tell me she couldn't find one yet and not give me a vet date. She apologized profusely and said she had already sent her papers/transfer/bill of sale in the mail and was really struggling and she was calling vets tomorrow to find a place to do payments with.

So, while I'm still not holding my breath, it feels better to have gotten in contact with her finally and talked things out. I'm gonna message her tomorrow afternoon about appointment and whatnot, and if things go well, set up a shipping appointment(if not, then preparing for a 7 hour drive to pick the horse up myself w/o coggins).

Crossing fingers things finally start to go right and can bring this beautiful mare home.


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## Prairie

It makes no sense that she has to find a vet who will take payments for a Coggins test, which is usually around $30 here. She has your money to pay for the test! This still sounds very fishy.


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## Tihannah

Did you talk to the BO about the condition of the horse since she hasn't been out to see it in months?? I take it you haven't seen the horse in person either? And since she can't afford coggins, whose been caring for the horse??

I only say this because it doesn't take long for a horse to dwindle under inadequate care. A barn friend sent her horse to another barn in June because she was doing a working student program outta state for the summer. She is trying to sell the horse, so she sent it so it could be consistently ridden and kept in top shape. He was a powerhouse when he left. He came back a few weeks ago and I didn't even recognize him. He's lost a ton of weight and muscle and just looks ragged. 

I would be VERY weary of this whole situation...


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## Bugaboo

Normally yeah, it's just that, but when I called a local vet by the horse to do my own price check, it was a lot more than that.

She doesn't have means to trailer to the vet and the receptionist said it was 60$ farm call for a 15 mile trip (which is really outrageous), 20 dollars for an exam because they have never seen the horse before (which is normal), 41 dollars for the coggins test and 8 or 10 dollars for the health certificate, which total is over 100 dollars.

So I can't really blame her when she also says she just had her gas turned off.


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## smrobs

In the owner's defense, I've been in a situation where the money coming in (what you paid for the horse) was already spent before it got here because I was so far behind. So, that money may have gone to pay for back board or overdue bills or maybe to pay back the person caring for the horse.

I try to remain optimistic and keep a sliver of faith in people even when it often doesn't work out.....because sometimes it does and sometimes people are truly honest.


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## Bugaboo

Tihannah said:


> Did you talk to the BO about the condition of the horse since she hasn't been out to see it in months?? I take it you haven't seen the horse in person either? And since she can't afford coggins, whose been caring for the horse??
> 
> I only say this because it doesn't take long for a horse to dwindle under inadequate care. A barn friend sent her horse to another barn in June because she was doing a working student program outta state for the summer. She is trying to sell the horse, so she sent it so it could be consistently ridden and kept in top shape. He was a powerhouse when he left. He came back a few weeks ago and I didn't even recognize him. He's lost a ton of weight and muscle and just looks ragged.
> 
> I would be VERY weary of this whole situation...


Actually, I did ask the owner and she said that the mare had quite a bit of rainrot and was a bit underweight when she brought her to the BO's barn, but even though she hasn't been out, the BO has been feeding her and had given her medicated baths to heal the rainrot, which is gone now and she looks better weight wise. While I understand that is not good for the horse, I don't think this girl means badly for the horse, she is just way in over her head being 23, having a 2 yr old, and being basically broke which forced the sale of this horse. So while she may seem a little shady, I think her selling the horse is better because she know she can't take care of her and also the reason why I am sticking with this so hard because I want to get the mare out of a situation like that. Not a rescue mission by any means, but I can help the mare and if it helps the owner too, then I'm gonna stick with it to the end until either it gets finished or it ends badly and I have to report her for the horse.

I'm hoping it doesn't go the second way, but I'm not just gonna give up.


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## Yogiwick

At this point from what I'm hearing I'd offer to send money directly to the vet. At this point you have enough to go pick the mare up even if the owner flakes out on you and you have the BOs address. Worse case it's only $100 more then everything else you've done and while she should cover it, sounds like you just want to get the horse to you at this point (I would too).

Or if you go pick the mare up, stop by the vet's on your way home lol. Don't they do quick Coggins tests at some places?


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## Bugaboo

I'm not sure about the quick coggins test as I've neve had one done or seen anyone have them done? If I was to pick her up, I'd just bring her to home and let her settle and bring her to my vet to get exam and coggins done. The person whom hauled the mare for her said the mare loads into a trailer like a dream, which is super.

And I've thought about sending more money to cover the vet costs, but I'm not sure how I could send it.


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## Yogiwick

Don't know about the Coggins lol.

Remember if crossing state lines Coggins and HC are often required. Not that you'll be stopped necessarily, but you really don't need yet another hang up. While $100 is a good bit, it's not that much compared to all the rest of this!

Find a local vet who will be willing to do xyz (I've never heard of requiring an exam...isn't that part of the HC? Weird) and I would think you could simply pay with a credit card over the phone. Definitely wouldn't be sending money through the seller at this point, honest or no.


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## Bugaboo

I know they're required, but I'm a pretty safe driver and don't get pulled over with a trailer (not that it can't happen!), but if it really came to it, I'd pick her up without the papers and just do them when I got home.

If she is able to get coggins and health cert, then I am definitely getting a shipper to bring her home.

Well, I guess a "good" vet would call for a wellness exam. In the clinic I worked in, we did just a quick physical on a horse, took pictures, and drew blood for the horse (if it was horse's first time getting coggins with us). Just typical exam stuff, temp, heart rate, heart sound (no abnormal arrhythmias), and overall well-being. The health certificate just has owner info and that the horse has been tested on it (or in the case of buying and selling, the previous owner's address and buyer's address) for legality reasons, if applicable.


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## Textan49

The seller falling on hard times is not your fault or your responsibility. Many of us have been in tough situations. You sent money in good faith and it is her responsibility to see that you get the horse. Since she is not doing that, I would stay in touch with the barn owner, who doesn't have to release the horse even though it was sold to you if board money is owed, arrange for the coggins and HC and pay for it myself, and either go myself or arrange for a shipper to get the horse. This person may not have set out to deliberately scam you but she sure is taking advantage of you. Better to pay a bit more and have the horse than to be out the purchase price with no horse.


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## Prairie

Bugaboo said:


> I'm not sure about the quick coggins test as I've neve had one done or seen anyone have them done? If I was to pick her up, I'd just bring her to home and let her settle and bring her to my vet to get exam and coggins done. The person whom hauled the mare for her said the mare loads into a trailer like a dream, which is super.
> 
> And I've thought about sending more money to cover the vet costs, but I'm not sure how I could send it.



Coggins has to be set in to a lab, but a vet can put a "rush" on it which will cost more, but will still take about 3 days. To pay the vet, most now take credit cards so you could just give him yours. 


It's almost a guarantee that the one time you don't have the horse's papers in order with Coggins and HE, you'll get stopped! Unless you know back roads to take, it's really not worth it.


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## Bugaboo

Well, she may have gotten a vet that would be able to come out and get the coggins and HC done when I asked her about it today and she'll let me know when they contact her tomorrow.

Then hopefully I will be able to set a shipping date and bring her home. I've talked to the lady who bred her about getting a new transfer formed signed for me (current O never transferred papers) and the current O and Original O have talked as well to confirm and it's looking a lot better now.

My hope is very slightly coming back.


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## JCnGrace

I traveled from IN to MO for over 20 years and was asked to see coggins and health twice. Both times were in IL once when we pulled into a rest stop along the interstate and once when we pulled in for gas along a state highway (not just off an interstate ramp either). I wouldn't risk being without them. 

At one time you had to have an extra permit to bring a horse into IL (not to pass through but if you unloaded it) from another state. Not sure if that is still a law but you might want to look into it. You can probably call an equine vet in your area and they would know.


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## SorrelHorse

Subbing.

I'd call a vet and get them to take my credit card if I was you. Set up a date and get the vet out.


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## Drifting

Subbing to see how this turns out. I'm the rebel that would just pick the horse up and get the coggins done when I got back to the farm, especially if I was planning on having the vet out when they got there anyway. I'd be done waiting on this Owner to do anything.


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## LoriF

If it were me, I would start interacting with the B/O more. Tell the B/O where the horse is staying that you are going to call a vet out for a coggins and health cert. I would also ask her if there are any issues with you just picking her up as far as if any money is owed to her. After that when everything is done, I would just drive and go get the horse. I would have been out there as soon as I found out where the horse was. All would be different if I didn't have a trailer. 

Personally, I wouldn't chance traveling without the proper paperwork. You may not get caught, but if you do, you will be opening up a whole new can of costly worms. If you go by any Agricultural check points at all they will ask for the paperwork. If you don't stop, chances are they will chase you down.


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## carshon

I would be concerned the BO could hold the horse for unpaid board. If you cannot afford Coggins at $30 how can you afford board? The costs will keep increasing the longer she is out of your possession.

I live in IL and have only been asked for health papers in WI- we travel to WI an IA quite a lot to ride. I may risk it just to get the horse home.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

I'm glad you've been able to contact the owner and get some more info. 

Re: Coggins and Health Cert, don't even think of crossing state lines (in OK traveling in the state) without them. If you get stopped, any where, they will ask to see your paperwork and if you don't have them, they can impound you truck, trailer and the horse. That will cost you more than you paid for the horse, not to mention having to deal with the courts. A reputable shipper will not allow the horse on his rig without them.


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## PoptartShop

Really happy to hear you were able to get some information and talk to the BO as well. I am crossing my fingers for you, but I definitely don't think you should discuss getting her shipped to you sooner than later. & without the coggins it'd be risky. I second what @Dreamcatcher Arabians said.


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## Bugaboo

Yeah, I'm definitely with the "rebel" people who say to just go and pick her up and I understand the repercussions of not having Coggins and HC done if I'm ever pulled over (I've never been pulled over with horse/trailer), and I've definitely considered it in my frustrations and angst for this whole situation. 

Those reasons are the reason though why I am still pushing for her to get the coggins and HC done. It would be ultimately cheaper for me to just go and pick the horse up, gas wise and getting coggins done by my vet wise (assuming I don't get pulled over on the way home", but the time discrepancy and chance of getting pulled over stop me from just going.

I think I'll finally be able to get her home soon, but I won't be able to set a shipping date until I have a vet date.


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## LoriF

Bugaboo said:


> Yeah, I'm definitely with the "rebel" people who say to just go and pick her up and I understand the repercussions of not having Coggins and HC done if I'm ever pulled over (I've never been pulled over with horse/trailer), and I've definitely considered it in my frustrations and angst for this whole situation.
> 
> Those reasons are the reason though why I am still pushing for her to get the coggins and HC done. It would be ultimately cheaper for me to just go and pick the horse up, gas wise and getting coggins done by my vet wise (assuming I don't get pulled over on the way home", but the time discrepancy and chance of getting pulled over stop me from just going.
> 
> I think I'll finally be able to get her home soon, but I won't be able to set a shipping date until I have a vet date.


Talk to the B/O where the horse is being kept and use their vet. If she/he can make the appointment, you can pay by debit or credit and have the papers in about a week.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

In my circles at least, it's pretty common to have the buyer pay for Coggins and HC, usually at the time they do the PPE or even if they refuse PPE.


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## Textan49

I wouldn't be relying on the seller for anything at this point. I assume that since she claims to have mailed the sales contract that you have received it or will have it in a day or so. Get whatever vet you can asap to do the coggins and HC and pay with a credit/debit card. Get the papers emailed to you or left with the BO and plan your trip. Waiting for a shipper can delay things longer and I would be concerned that since she obviously has spent the money you sent her, that she may be delinquent in the board. I think the BO might be very willing to help you find a vet and will be glad to see this horse gone. People living on the edge financially can be a liability to everyone involved with them when they have no money. I used to know horse traders who crossed state line all the time with forged or no paperwork. I wouldn't risk it and don't recommend it.


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## Whinnie

The thing that jumps out at me is that the mare has only been at the barn for 2 months and is being sold. I hope the person you are dealing with is the real owner. Has the BO been paid? Is there maybe a lien on the mare from the previous barn for non-payment?


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## greentree

Surely, the BO did not let the horse board with NO Coggins or proof of ownership???? 2 months ago???


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## greentree

Double post..


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## carshon

If this were me - I think I would walk away and demand my money back. This is a weird situation. What makes this horse worth the additional eft? Have you ever seen this horse in person?


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## AtokaGhosthorse

I'm sorry to keep playing the skeptic here, but none of this sounds reassuring. IF the horse is real, and you're not being shuffled through a network of co-offenders/scammers, then there are real concerns about the horse's health.

I'm not understanding how she has your money but couldn't afford Coggins. Were it us, selling one of ours and they needed their Coggins, we'd just pay out of the money already paid toward the purchase of the horse. That said, we wouldn't accept the money until the new buyer actually saw the horse in person and the reins were changing hands so to speak.

My gut feeling is still that you are being played and you've been scammed. I can't stress it enough.

*Edit: You seem to already have an emotional attachment to this mare. Scammers COUNT on people like you to not be able to walk away. That said: Horses are a buyer's market right now. There are a LOT of horses out there worthy of good homes and good animals, just needing a home and some TLC. (our Leroy was just $400.00 and needed to be fed up for a month and reshod. He's a wonderful horse, built like a tank now, fearless and loving) Were it me, I'd be cutting my loses and finding a horse closer to home, one you can inspect in person, and with a more communicative owner.


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## carshon

Just bumping hoping for an update


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## HombresArablegacy

Please let us know if you got your mare home.


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## PoptartShop

Keep us posted please...we are dying to hear back from you about it.


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## Bugaboo

Hey guys, sorry for the long update.

She hadn't been replying again, and I know all you skeptics out there are jumping up, but I'd manage to go through BO connects and get a hold of her, as in, get her to message me.

She just has had so many things go on and blah blah. I know she already has the money spent as she doesn't have a job, I know, still shady, but this is why she doesn't have money to pay for coggins and HC. 

I've gotten the transfer paper from the original breeder and talked to her about her papers and so that is in the workings still, but she said she couldn't get an appointment with her credit and no job, so now I've gotten my own vet appointment set up that she'll be there for to sign anything and hold the horse and have also informed the BO of the appointment so nobody is in the dark and have paid for the appointment. 

Once the vet goes out and gets coggins on the 2nd of Nov, I'll basically be free to go and get her.

It's cost me a little extra money, but I do like this mare. She gorgeous, got nice papers I like, has a super laid back personality (her 2 yr old son loves to brush and sit on her), and she has the super added benefit of being colored awesome.

Things have gone slowly, but they're getting closer now. I'll let you guys know when I get her papers and when I finally am able to bring her home and take pics for everyone.


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## Celeste

Subbing. It is Nov 2


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## PoptartShop

Yes, please let us know. I really hope this works out for you.
Fingers crossed for you!


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## Bugaboo

Thanks guys.

Well, the vet came out today and drew blood for the coggins and HC, so that's a positive. The O was suppose to be out there and she was consistently responding back and assuring me she would be there, well, she wasn't, but did message me back saying she ran out of gas on the way there (drives a jeep and had to beg someone for some gas money and only got 5) and her and her bf share a phone, so it was all a mess. Fortunately BO was there and pulled mare out and stood for her and I paid over the phone to the vet an hour after the appointment so that is all covered.

The vet said it would take 7-10 days for the coggins (phewie), but it was due to the weekend I guess which kinda bums the ride I was setting up, which would have been sooner than that. The BO is also leaving for Florida on the 14th, so time is getting super tight.

At this point, I am gonna drive out there myself on the 12th and go pick this horse up. I still haven't gotten papers in the mail, but now I have an extra 7-10 days to see if they arrive. Once I get this mare home, I'll be glad to be done with this. Almost there guys, we're almost there.


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## smrobs

What a mess. I'll be so glad when you can post that you have this poor mare home.


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## Bugaboo

Also, the BO sent me a couple pictures of the filly after the appointment.

Check out my pretty BS APHA champagne mare I hope will be in my pasture soon!

Also, here is her pedigree. Love the WP lines.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pv+shes+a+sensation


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Does the current owner have the papers for you to get or is this something that's being done through the breeder/other previous owners? I got a little confused on this point.


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## smrobs

Whew, nice looking mare! After all the fuss and muss I was really starting to be worried that maybe the horse was in poor shape. So glad to see I was wrong.


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## Bugaboo

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Does the current owner have the papers for you to get or is this something that's being done through the breeder/other previous owners? I got a little confused on this point.


The current O has the papers that she never transferred to her name. She is mailing me the papers, but it is just taking a really long time for the letter to get from her in OH to me in IL. We're hoping she didn't misprint something or the mail get lost.


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## Bugaboo

smrobs said:


> Whew, nice looking mare! After all the fuss and muss I was really starting to be worried that maybe the horse was in poor shape. So glad to see I was wrong.


Me too. The BO has been feeding her from her own stockpile of food, so since I know the current O can't afford to pay that off, I'll happily pay a little extra to cover the food because she does look really good. I'd rather pay for the food and have her be fat than pay for the food and feed her and have her be skinny.


Also, I keep hearing nothing but good things about this mare from multiple people. The BO, the girl her trailered her to the BO's place, and the O of course. Even the vet today had said she has such a nice personality and she catches and loads great, so I am super excited.


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## Avna

In my sad experience, there is a type of person for whom nothing goes right. They are always late or don't show up, they always forget to bring what they promised or send what is needed, their rent is always in arrears, their credit is always bad, their car always breaks down and they always miss their train. Everything they touch turns to crap. If you hang around them you can see exactly why this is happening to them and how they could prevent it, but they can't see it. 

This type of person is very predictable in their inability to hold up their end. There's a surprising number out there. I ran into them a lot when I bought and sold livestock. "Well, I thought the sheep were in there, I guess they got out" (through one of the many sheep-sized holes in the rotting wire perhaps?). The lady who drove six hours to pick up some adult goats from me who not only intended that they all were going to ride back unrestrained in the rear seat of her sedan, but who brought me a signed check for the wrong amount of money, and no other checks and no cash (I only accept cash). The list is endless. 

If you want something from this kind of person, you have to do ninety percent of the work, not fifty. They won't do anything right. They may have all the good will in the world but that's all it is. Most of them aren't trying to cheat you, they're just stumbling and falling through life. 

I hope you get your pretty horse home soon.


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## Bugaboo

I definitely do think she is in that position, Avna. She definitely hasn't tried to spurn me maliciously, but she has had a really long streak of bad luck and just has had everything turn to crap.

If she was closer I think I would be a lot less stressed about going out. The furthest I've ever driven with a horse has been 5 hr 20 min, so this 8 hour drive and distance is making anxious as well.

It just makes doing 90% of the work (which I don't really mind) harder, being so far away. Feel so out of control and in the dark about everything.


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## HombresArablegacy

Bugaboo said:


> The current O has the papers that she never transferred to her name. She is mailing me the papers, but it is just taking a really long time for the letter to get from her in OH to me in IL. We're hoping she didn't misprint something or the mail get lost.


Hmmm, let me guess.....she doesn't have 49 cents to mail the papers, if she actually has them? ? It shouldn't take more than 3 days max for the papers to reach you from Ohio. I think there's something fishy with the papers and she's stonewalling you. I sure hope for your sake that's not the case. She's had your money for almost a month now, could have sent you the papers 10 times over by now. 

Have you tried calling the registry to find out who the recorded owner is? I'm wondering if she bought this mare and never finished paying for her. Which would explain why the papers aren't in her name. I can understand financial hardship, but this girl has an excuse for everything! !!! 

The mare is lovely and I hope you get her home sooner rather than later.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

If the current owner has the papers, then I'd be asking right now, if she had sent them at all. If not, then I would want them in the BO's hands before I left to pick up the horse. And I would want her physical address, so when that doesn't happen you can go sit in her driveway until she a) finds them and gives them to you or b) finds a certain portion of the purchase price to refund to you since she never had them in the first place. I suspect b is much more likely than a. Wish I didn't still have a total CRAP feeling about this but sadly, I do.


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## carshon

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> If the current owner has the papers, then I'd be asking right now, if she had sent them at all. If not, then I would want them in the BO's hands before I left to pick up the horse. And I would want her physical address, so when that doesn't happen you can go sit in her driveway until she a) finds them and gives them to you or b) finds a certain portion of the purchase price to refund to you since she never had them in the first place. I suspect b is much more likely than a. Wish I didn't still have a total CRAP feeling about this but sadly, I do.


Sad to say but I have to agree with DreamCatcher. I work in the magazine business. I deal with printers and the USPS almost daily. The MAX and I mean MAX it should take those papers to get to you is 5-6 days and that is only because the USPS is clogged with campaign media now.

And to be very honest I would question the champagne coloring. First it is not a recognized AQHA color (and the APHA has many of the same rules as the AQHA on color) and second the % of real champagne horses in the stock breeds is less than 3% with Palomino coming in at just under 8% in the AQHA

She is a nice looking mare and I hope I am wrong ( I am not trying to burst your bubble) but sometimes what seems too good to be true (a cheap horse with a rare color with great bloodlines) is well... too good to be true.


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## PoptartShop

I really hope you get the papers accordingly. Sigh. Seems like they're pulling you in all different directions & that's not really fair, especially since you sent the money.
Bet you're dying for the 12th!


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## greentree

My thought was "How in the heck do you know that mare matches that pedigree?" I have not been involved with APHA since they started branching out on colors....
She would be registered as sorrel .
I would definitely DEMAND a cell phone photo of the papers, before I drove 8 hours, to be SURE they are in hand.....
.


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## Folly

greentree said:


> My thought was "How in the heck do you know that mare matches that pedigree?" I have not been involved with APHA since they started branching out on colors....
> She would be registered as sorrel .
> I would definitely DEMAND a cell phone photo of the papers, before I drove 8 hours, to be SURE they are in hand.....
> .


I was curious and did a quick web search - and this is the mare as a foal. Face markings are a match. Anyway, probably old news and may have been discussed earlier, but I guess this was the owner before the current one? Pretty girl.

HORSE FOR SALE


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## Celeste

I personally would be more worried about getting the horse on my property. I would go this weekend even if I had to drive back to get paperwork. I would be afraid the person that sold her to you might move her to sell her again. Maybe that's mean to think that, but I would go get her yesterday.


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## ApuetsoT

Celeste said:


> I personally would be more worried about getting the horse on my property. I would go this weekend even if I had to drive back to get paperwork. I would be afraid the person that sold her to you might move her to sell her again. Maybe that's mean to think that, but I would go get her yesterday.


I think the problem with that is that the horse won't have her health certificate and Coggins done and she'll be crossing state lines. That's why she's waiting.


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## Yogiwick

^Sounds like they're done she's just waiting on the paperwork at this point..

Can I just say if you end up driving out there that BO sure deserves a lunch at the very least!!

She's definitely not "sorrel", palomino at the least but based purely off the pics I can definitely see champagne so not sure what the concern is about...?


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## Bugaboo

I really don't think she is trying to flak me and even if something happens to papers, I've already been in contact with the breeder/previous O and I will just pay her and get an affidavit to get a duplicate copy and that they got lost and transfer them in. 

She is assuredly the same horse, as someone has already posted her ad from the breeder and she is champagne with the champagne lineage and (kinda hard to see in pictures) she does have some champagne characteristics.

And no, APHA/AQHA doesn't recognize champagne, but with pictures or test results proving champagne genes, the post the most relevant color and, at least APHA, marks in the "other comments" that they have champagne genes. That's what they did with my perlino champagne colt. He's listed as perlino with champagne.

I don't remember if I said before, but at this point, I'll be heading out next weekend to pick her up. O said that if I don't get the mail that she can at least reprint the bill of sale and give to BO so she has something when I pick her up along with the coggins and HC.

I really appreciate everyone's concern though and those that have stuck with me through these nail-biting times. I'll definitely be sure to post lots of pics when I get her home.


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## KigerQueen

any update?


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## PoptartShop

I think the OP said on the 12th she's planning on getting her.


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## Bugaboo

Sorry, not much has been happening in the mean time. I'm gonna pack and get ready and drive out early tomorrow(Friday) morning so I can go around and get some paper work done and pick up papers from vet and see the horse and whatnot and rest for the night, then once things are taken care of, we will be leaving Saturday morning to come back home. 

I'll definitely post pictures and updates as we go and finally when we get home.

Here is a picture of the herd waiting for her to get home. The colt in the middle is my 1.5 yr old colt who will be her "boyfriend" in a few years. I'm really excited.


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## greentree

Safe travels!!


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## PoptartShop

Awww be safe!!!! Let us know how it goes and take pictures when you have her home!


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## carshon

So excited for you and fingers crossed that all of the hiccups in this purchase are behind you!


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## Bugaboo

Hey guys! So I'm am well into Ohio. Gonna be pulling into a place to get some papers signed and heading to a hotel for the night.

Then tomorrow will be driving to vet's office to pick up the appropriate papers and go and see the horse. I'm super excited things are finally starting to come together!


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## greentree

Yay!!! Glad to hear you asre making progress!!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Take your time and be safe!


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## Bugaboo

Alright, morning time, got that good ole hotel breakfast in my and my OJ. Got the duplicate papers signed (because let's just say the papers got lost in mail stream) from original breeder, I have new Bill of SALE agreement printed out to sign and I have the transfers ready to sign.

On my way to the vets right now to pick up coggins and HC and then on my way to the horse.


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## carshon

So happy to see this update and waiting on more! and don't forget the pics!!!


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## Knave

Did it all go as planned?


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## Bugaboo

I've picked up HC/coggins, got my copy of Bill of sale and all the transfers signed. Best part...
I have the sweetest filly riding in my trailer for home.


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## Knave

I am happy for you! I really am glad it wasn't a scam. I was kind of convinced.


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## KigerQueen

woohooo! i love happy endings!


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## phantomhorse13

woohoo!!


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## Rascaholic

Nice!!!


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## EliRose

How wonderful that it all worked out! I have to say, that filly is lovely. Congratulations!


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## JADIP

Glad it all worked out. She's beautiful. Congrats!


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## Bugaboo

Thanks everyone! I'm finally home! It's been a super long weekend. I figured my co-pilot (my father) and I traveled total, about 24 hours worth of driving and covered about 1400 miles.

It's been a /really/ long two days. It is done though. Unfortunately as it was 10pm when I got home, I couldn't take more pictures. I'll be sure to tomorrow and post them. 

Halo has landed!


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## SwissMiss

Yay! Congratulations!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians

Glad you're home safe and sound with your new horse in tow.


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## Chasin Ponies

I'm so glad things finally worked out and that this is a happy ending! She's beautiful!


I was convinced this was a scam because I'm seeing this happen more and more. The internet, for all of it's convenience is making life a lot easier for scammers.


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## Bugaboo

I definitely thought it was looking more and more like a scam, but I was gonna fight my **** off for it. I was gonna get something done by the end of this.
She was a really nice girl to meet and we got along really well and I picked her up so she could come along and say goodbye and sign papers. I'm really happy she is here though and she is very sweet. Easy catch and loaded just fine. She's a brave girl.

I can't wait to get her going under saddle in the spring.


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## PoptartShop

I'm SO happy for you & for her, she is beautiful!  Love the pictures. Really really glad everything worked out as it should. So exciting!!!!


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## carshon

I am so happy to see the pics and know she is at home with you. Now to start reading a training journal (hint hint) what a lovely Filly!


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## smrobs

Yay!!!!


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## Tihannah

What a sweet girl! So happy everything worked out for you. She's looks like she's going to be a really nice horse once she's all filled out. Congratulations!


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## Mulefeather

Very happy that it worked out for you! I remember thinking this had to be a scam - and I am very happy to be proven wrong!


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## Fimargue

So glad to hear there was a happy ending and you got your pretty girl home. Congratulations!


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## AtokaGhosthorse

Shortly after joining here and commenting on and subbing to this post, life got super busy for me. Nothing bad, just busy. Today is my first day back and this is the first thread I checked.

I cannot tell you how happy and yet how shocked I am this was not a scam. I didn't cut to the 'ending', I read all four or five pages of posts, and I was still convinced, until you put up the picture of her tied to the trailer the day you picked her up, it was a scam. Even when you said 'waiting on the Coggins papers'... In Oklahoma, at least in this part of the state, the vets give you papers that day. Also, I'm even more mystified about her not having the money to pay for the test... none of ours needed them until recently, they had their Coggins when we bought them. I found out a month ago its only $25.00 to get the test done. (that's here, it may be more elsewhere)

Anyway. GLAD it worked out well for everyone, glad you had a safe journey 'there and back again'.

How is she doing? Has she filled out? Are the two of you getting along okay?


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## stevenson

glad you finally got her home. I would have a Vet check her out soon. 
She looks to have a heave line, really shows in the photo showing her left side.


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## Bugaboo

*Super late update, y'all!!!!*

**UUUPPPDDDAAAAAATTTEEEEEEE**

Hello everyone! I hope that everyone is doing well and I'm really glad everyone stuck with me through all of this mayhem back in Oct/Nov of 2016. It's hard to believe it's been that long since the journey of Halo, but I am incredibly glad that I didn't give up on this filly and was able to bring her home! 

She is still here with me in Illinois and living the easy life at the moment. She has been an amazing, little filly and I wouldn't sell her for anything right now. We've gone through some ups and downs with her (not necessarily directly her fault or attitude), but it's been fun. Shortly after I brought her and introduced her to the other 3 (there is a picture of them buried somewhere in there) horses, the grey gelding (my riding horse) was very possessive of the dun broodmare in the picture and didn't like new horses. He ended up driving her through some barb wire around the edge of the back pasture and she tore her chest open pretty good...I thought, "Well, I haven't even had her a month and she won't be able to be ridden...", BUT! The vet came out and stitched her up the next day and she healed great and you can't even see the scars (have to feel her breast muscle for the scar tissue). I haven't really ridden her much as she has been a bit of a slow grower and I don't want to over-stress her (she'll be 4 in May now), but come spring she is gonna hit boot camp.

Another incident was that my neighbor has an old Kiger mustang, and we've pastured next to him for the last (now 4 years) we've lived where I do now with no issue from him, but of course, Halo had to be an irresistible hussy and on her first cycle, tease him mad, and bring him through the fence that separated them. I woke up that morning to "We have an extra horse in the pasture!" Oh boy! And this stallion is not handled at all. You could approach him carefully and pet him, but any ropes and he was long gone! I managed to get Halo in the round pen with the injured dun broodmare (that's a totally different, long and very sad story) quickly, but my other two geldings were being terrorized by the stallion (and I don't be terrorized with aggression). The ONLY reason that Halo isn't currently bred is because my mum's gaited paint gelding defended that hussy's honor like a true herd leader and fended off the stallion when he'd approach her. He'd barge his way between them when he approached behind her and turn with feet flying. Unfortunately for him, he also took some of the "loving" he was hoping to give Halo, but nobody was hurt during that aspect, fortunately. I almost had to shoot that stallion (by owner's own permission as last resort), but I finally got all the horses in the round pen and let Buddy (stallion) take a break until his owner could come and we took 2 hours to get him into a trailer. Unfortunately, Halo somehow had been run through some different barb wire and had some pretty nasty tears along her legs and such...another instance of "oh great, she's gonna be permanently lame"...

She isn't, but has some scarring on her back leg to show for it. The proud flesh growing in three spots was awful and I had to get some dormasedan from the vet and straight razor all the proud flesh off (took me 3 hours and really bad sun burn) and had to scissor off a nice chunk of flesh I was hoping would die and fall off on its own (with no such luck). It was a long healing process and we fought a lot during the early stages of cleaning it and changing bandages, but it turned out as well as it could have. 

She is such an easy, little (14hands) girl to work with and really tries hard (though her mare-tude meter has definitely increased just a little bit as she has aged, lol) and she's a dream to work with. It's pretty hard to spook her, even with things she's never seen before. First time I saddled and lunged her, I tied plastic bags to the saddle and she didn't care. I had to roach her made in late summer due to tick/bug bites along her crest and she set back just a little the first time I turned on the clippers...after that, I dropped the lead rope and she never even moved. She loves to meet all new horses and is my go to for putting new horses in with for introductions.

More recently, I had a friend of mine take her out on her first trail ride and she did awesome! It wasn't the best ride because we ran into nasty ground bees and she got a zinger on her *** and bucked a bit, but otherwise, she did great! She is happy to lead or follow. She'll go backwards for miles and is already working on neck reining (she's sick of the ground work, I'm sure, lol)

She's quick and catty and can't wait to get her riding. I'm planning on breeding her come spring, have a stud picked out, and putting her through her paces afterwards and getting her into some cutting, pleasure, and maybe a little barrel racing. She's a sass, but just loves everyone and I wouldn't change anything about her!

Also, yes, I did finally manage to get her duplicate papers and transferred over to my name a month or so later. Her color is actually registered as "gold champagne", so that was a huge weight off my shoulders. She's tested ee AA nLWO and 5 panel tested (her dam was a loud overo).

The herd has changed a lot since the picture of the three I posted long ago. I sold the grey gelding (sadly) simply due to his inability to accept new horses quickly and couldn't take the chance of him injuring new broodmares and/or foals. The AQHA dun (her and the grey were basically married, they loved each other) had gone into labor April 27th 2017 during a storm late at night and unfortunately it wasn't until late morning we found her with the colt stuck in the birth canal (leg folded up at the carpus) already dead. We had to jack the leg out to get the foal and the mare ended up tearing completely through her vaginal vault into her flank as well as a couple other places in her repro tract. We tried to get her to heal, but she lost weight too quickly and developed peritonitis and had to put her down two weeks later. Still have my lovely stud prospect, who will be 3 yrs in June, at a friend's house for training and a little showing come spring. The new additions are my mum's riding mare and APHA b/w broodmare who'll be foaling in the spring, and my new super sassy, 17 yr old solid APHA dun mare. They'll all three be bred in the spring!

Pictures may take a couple posts

~First pic is 11-17-2016 when the grey gelding ran her through barb wire fence.
~Second and third pic is healing and her eating on 12-8-2016
~Fourth, Fifth, and sixth pic are injuries to her rear leg and inner front leg when stud ran with her through the barb wire 05-05-2017
~Seventh pic was healing process of wire wounds 06-05-2017
~Eight and Ninth pic are the same on 06-14-2017


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## Bugaboo

*More Pictures!*

Here are some more pictures....trying to go in order of oldest to newest, but some might be mixed up.

~First pic is when I roached her 8-2-2017
~Second and third pic are her and her and my stud prospect on 02-13-2017
~Fourth pic is her and my previous gaited gelding Devin getting some love from my nieces 08-20-2017
~Fifth pic is her first time getting lunged with a saddle with me (also day of plastic bags) on 5-2-17
~Sixth pic is her modeling a shoulder guard 09-02-2017
~Seventh and Eight pic are her first trail ride 09-03-2017
~Ninth pic is her being sassy after fresh hay was put out 11-11-2017


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## Bugaboo

*Moar!!*

Can't seem to upload videos, but will try to work on it!

~First pic is another in the pasture with her sassy face on 11-11-2017 (The dun butt is the new, sassy solid paint mare)
~Second pic is introducing b/w broodmare in with Cola after a couple days over the fence. Smooth as silk. 8-27-2017


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## Smilie

So, do you have mares across a v barb wire fence form a stud?


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## Bugaboo

Not currently, no. Both the stallion owner and I have shored up the fence that separates where the back of the stud's pasture and my back property summer pasture butt against each other. They only have about 10 feet of fence line they could meet each other, but he's put up panels over new fence and I've put up some fence so there is now space between them and they can't reach. He's not truly an aggressive stallion and, until recently, I only had geldings and him and my geldings got along fine over the fence.


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