# Am I really the owner if no papers?



## Naughtyponyowner (Jun 29, 2021)

2-3 years ago we bought a pony mare. She was 5k which for her training and age was a bit overpriced but I suppose she had good conformation and was well bred.
We asked for the papers, but the owners said they were lost. I have asked multiple times about this and they still say they're lost. They also tell us not to worry because we own her but honestly I don't trust them anymore and I don't know who would win if it went to court.
I don't know, assuming the papers are lost, is there a way to reprint them? She was bred at a very well known stud and I know her formal name.
Am I being overdramatic or do all people get horse's papers when they are sold?


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

You can try to get a copy of her papers but if the previous owner did not sign the transfer and you did not submit with fees for your name to now appear....
When you buy registered you get the papers at the time of sale with all the needed signatures in the right place.
Papers though are not the only means of identifying ownership...
So do board bills, vet bills and pictures taken over a timeline along with a bill of sale stating what was bought, when, by whom...
At this point in time, the animal may be from a great breeder but she is grade, not papered as you do not possess the paperwork nor is she in your name...grade is what you bought and have to this day.
There is no guarantee nor "have-to" saying you get the papers unless that is written on your bill of sale, you paid for and bought grade. Sorry.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

Do you have a bill of sale at all? An email or a text confirming your purchase? Did you do it online or all cash? If you can prove the purchase financially and have proof of paying vet bills & boarding fees like mentioned above then you will be OK. Any text or email where they state "the horse is yours don't worry" you should also keep safe. I just recently got a new horse and had the passport in my hands via post/mail 2 days later. I wouldn't feel comfortable any other way so I understand how you feel.


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## Naughtyponyowner (Jun 29, 2021)

Kalraii said:


> Do you have a bill of sale at all? An email or a text confirming your purchase? Did you do it online or all cash? If you can prove the purchase financially and have proof of paying vet bills & boarding fees like mentioned above then you will be OK. Any text or email where they state "the horse is yours don't worry" you should also keep safe. I just recently got a new horse and had the passport in my hands via post/mail 2 days later. I wouldn't feel comfortable any other way so I understand how you feel.


Yes, we had a bank loan , multiple texts . It was online though. We also have our name under vet bills. 
I do not care for the papers or registries , just that I actually own her.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

a bill of sale is proof. on registration papers, the sign over is the bill of sale and ables you to transfer the papers.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

A lot of times people tell you there are papers and then they tell you they are lost. She may not be papered. As long as you have a bill of sale and you are listed as the owner on the coggins and with the vet I think you can fight anything that might come your way.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

I never buy anything with out a bill of sale with both the sellers name and signature and buyers name and signature with the date of purchase and a brief description on said animal. On a grade horse that is all the proof of ownership you will have. People are flakey and they may be selling a horse to you that they don't even own so without proof of purchase you maybe stopped on the way home and accused of stealing the animal.


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## Naughtyponyowner (Jun 29, 2021)

farmpony84 said:


> A lot of times people tell you there are papers and then they tell you they are lost. She may not be papered. As long as you have a bill of sale and you are listed as the owner on the coggins and with the vet I think you can fight anything that might come your way.


That would be like the sellers, I didn't think of that. I searched her 'formal name' on the Stud she was supposedly bred at and found nothing.
Yes, I have my name on everything and a bank statement.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

If I were to buy a horse I would get a bill of sale. None of my horses have had papers, and there are countless grade horses that people own that have never had papers. They just sign a sales agreement.

A couple of my horses were given to me, and I was unable to get a bill of sale. But you don't need to worry if you have financial records and witnesses over time proving that you have assumed ownership. 

One horse was given to me in a sketchy situation so I kept texts that said the previous owner was giving me the horse.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

If you have your name on the bill of sale, then you are the owner.

You don't need your name on papers to be the owner. Lots of horses don't have papers, and that doesn't create a bar to ownership transfer.


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