# Horse Hates Contact?



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I have no doubt that he has had a long string of riders who did not know how to make fair and meaningful contact. Thus he got bopped in the mouth over and over again. And seeing as how he is the easier horse to ride, then he gets stuck with the lower level riders who are the worst offenders when it comes to being hard on a horse's mouth. 
The horse may have had years of people just haning on his mouth, literally, I mean posting by pulling themselves up by the reins. I am sure you don't do that, but the horse is set in a mental pattern. Assuming he is a good soldier and does his duty at the school, I would guess one could just cut him some slack there and let him have his way.
Hope you feel fully recovered soon.


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I have no doubt that he has had a long string of riders who did not know how to make fair and meaningful contact. Thus he got bopped in the mouth over and over again. And seeing as how he is the easier horse to ride, then he gets stuck with the lower level riders who are the worst offenders when it comes to being hard on a horse's mouth.
> The horse may have had years of people just haning on his mouth, literally, I mean posting by pulling themselves up by the reins. I am sure you don't do that, but the horse is set in a mental pattern. Assuming he is a good soldier and does his duty at the school, I would guess one could just cut him some slack there and let him have his way.
> Hope you feel fully recovered soon.


Sounds reasonable. At my lessons in the morning, there is something called Pony Mania (even though some arnt put on ponies ) for the little kids, and he is always there as one of the horses used, so thats probably it. I never ride him, except for then, and Ive been riding for a good 9 years now. To be honest, I have trouble having contact. Im not really inbetween, Its either contact or no contact for me. I guess its because Ive ridden many horses who with the slightest contact freak out. And unfortunately I cant help with that, since theyre lesson horses. Bah. Im kind of afraid of having contact now with some horses. I feel like Im pulling too hard, or when I have contact, I drive them forward with my seat and body, but they take the contact as being stop or slow, it drives me nuts! 

Thanks Im a lot better now :]


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I remember when I took some hunter lessons way back when I was younger and I rode this big old black hunter, huge! and if I took up contact, he would just lean the harder on it, so I would pull the harder and so on. My teacher would yell at me, saying the old , "it takes two to tango!" Meaning if I didn't pull , he wouldn't pull. Ok, but then how to have contact? I was really frustrated by that.

Then I took dressage lessons (years later) and it was all about taking a contact and pushing the horse into that contact, and tighter and tighter . . . .and you WOULD get the horse dragging back and you'd have to use a lot of leg to counteract the drag from the front. (all incorrect. I know the dressage experts will jump on me about this. You know, "back to front! ok!!

So, in recent years I have been riding Western and trail and I guess doing what you would call natural horsemanship. And the trainer I work with emphasizes that contact has a meaning. You take up contact for a reason. If your contact is dead and heavy, it loses its' reason and then becomes background noise.

AND, the horse sets the amount of pressure that it will have on the rein, by coming off the bit when it feels pressure applied. How much pressure that takes, is up to the horse. Trick is, if the horse has never gotten a well timed release for giving to the bit, then he hasn't learned that there IS freedom in contact. He will feel he has no escape, thus there is no point is coming off the bit .

You, the rider, must put on the contact (pressure) and in order for him to give to that pressure, you will have to MEET HIS RESISTENCE AND ONE OUNCE MORE.. If you only meet him, then you are in stalemate. You MUST exheed him, but only the tiniest amount. And the instant he gives an ounce, you give a pound. At least at first, until the idea that there is freedom in giving is well understood.

Once he has given to the bit, it's the rider's responsibility to maintain a soft and responsive contact. Like if the horse needs to reach down to cough, you have to softly follow, or if it stumbles, you have to follow the head. you know what I mean.

That's how you get the horse softened to the bit. At first, it can look really ugly because the horse WILL resist, no doubt about it. But eentuallly you get him really soft and then you can, in theory, ride like a cowboy with only the drape of the reins creating the contact. 
I don't think I would do that in jumpers, tho.


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense! :]


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

oh my gosh my horse hates contact too! I've never seen her canter with my attempt of contact, but I don't think that it worked too well!!


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Tinyliny well put! I just want to echo that some horses do hate contact but that it is almost always because a rider (or riders) didn't use their hands correctly. So sad! My guy has a problem with contact because the rider before me was way too busy with her hands and now he just wants to fight me on it. Sometimes I have to float the rein and sometimes I have to take pounds. Once they get it in their heads that contact is bad it can be a real challenge for those of us who strive for correctness! Learning to ride correctly (without relying on your hands to steer) is so important!!


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

Shasta1981 said:


> Tinyliny well put! I just want to echo that some horses do hate contact but that it is almost always because a rider (or riders) didn't use their hands correctly. So sad! My guy has a problem with contact because the rider before me was way too busy with her hands and now he just wants to fight me on it. Sometimes I have to float the rein and sometimes I have to take pounds. Once they get it in their heads that contact is bad it can be a real challenge for those of us who strive for correctness! Learning to ride correctly (without relying on your hands to steer) is so important!!


quite often that's true. But some horses really just hate contact. My horse is one of those horses. She has been ridden by a lot of people (she was a lesson horse before I leased her and she's been to lots of owners) and she hasn't liked contact with anyone of them. One person had been riding for around 17 years and she still didn't like her. Same with her owner she just doesn't like contact. This could be the problem with tinyliny's and RidingTowardsGrace's horse too.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

oh I'm sorry! Reading that over that sounded kinda rude! I didn't mean to be rude, I just wanted to point that out! 
Sorry!


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## RidingTowardsGrace (Jul 29, 2010)

Cheyennes mom said:


> oh I'm sorry! Reading that over that sounded kinda rude! I didn't mean to be rude, I just wanted to point that out!
> Sorry!


It's not rude :] you were just pointing something out.

As for the horse I rode, Im gonna say that it's just because the little kids are put on him since he's pretty easy to ride. Unfortunately, I cant do anything to work with him since he's not the horse I normally ride. So we just leave him be sinces hes well into his twentys now.


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## Shasta1981 (Nov 12, 2010)

Cheyennes mom said:


> quite often that's true. But some horses really just hate contact. My horse is one of those horses. She has been ridden by a lot of people (she was a lesson horse before I leased her and she's been to lots of owners) and she hasn't liked contact with anyone of them. One person had been riding for around 17 years and she still didn't like her. Same with her owner she just doesn't like contact. This could be the problem with tinyliny's and RidingTowardsGrace's horse too.



Cheyennes mom, I would give it a 99.9% chance that a rider down the line yanked on your kid's face, *especially* if she was a lesson horse, which directly contributes to her not liking contact. The point is that many people starting out simply don't have balance and end up pulling on the reins to halt or using them to steer. Ever rider on this forum (including me) has probably done it when they were first starting out. With my guy, it took one rider to yank on his face just a couple of times and now I have to put in overtime to get him to trust that I won't do the same. He actually waits for it. My point is that, 1) its not necessarily your fault and 2) don't get frustrated because its pretty common with lesson horses. Maybe give her an extra carrot! =)


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

Shasta1981 said:


> Cheyennes mom, I would give it a 99.9% chance that a rider down the line yanked on your kid's face, *especially* if she was a lesson horse, which directly contributes to her not liking contact. The point is that many people starting out simply don't have balance and end up pulling on the reins to halt or using them to steer. Ever rider on this forum (including me) has probably done it when they were first starting out. With my guy, it took one rider to yank on his face just a couple of times and now I have to put in overtime to get him to trust that I won't do the same. He actually waits for it. My point is that, 1) its not necessarily your fault and 2) don't get frustrated because its pretty common with lesson horses. Maybe give her an extra carrot! =)


I guess your right... It would make sence... It is possible that horses just don't like it though isn't it? I mean, if you really think about it, I wouldn't like people pulling on my head at all, much less pulling it onto my chest and then telling me what to do.


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## FlitterBug (May 28, 2009)

I was taught that reins are for listening more than telling. Any horse that I have found that avoids contact is avoiding the full conversation between horse and rider.

I work with many riders that were taught to "get out of the horses way" and completely avoid contact. Many good schoolies become somewhat introverted, going into a state of "get out of my way, I'll do my job until you leave me alone". They get the job done, but quality of movement is lacking and they never really make the connection of horse and rider rather than horse and passenger.

I prefer to think of contact as holding hands rather than pulling on the horses face. Good hands take years and years to truly master, but once you accomplish it you will see that there is a lot more to good hands than hands being still. Good feel goes both ways, listening and telling, and when done correctly I have never met a horse that doesn't appreciate the gentle guidance of a good leader. Some horses that have been damaged by the unforgiving hands of a beginner will be a lot less likely to want to take part in that conversation at first.

Remeber, there is difference between contact and aides. When I have contact with a horse, my goal is not to pull their head from one side to the other or down to their chest. The goal of my contact is to be able to feel slight imbalances and help with them. It is to show them the best way to do something and to hold that conversation that can be so subtle that a bystander wouldn't notice how much was going on between the two parties. I have met many horses reluctant to accept contact because of what has been done to the in the past, but every one that I have worked with has learned to enjoy contact when it is achieved correctly.


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## Cheyennes mom (Aug 6, 2010)

K, thanks.


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## Jordan S (Jun 7, 2009)

I have the same problem.


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