# Good spurs for a slightly lazy horse



## ablhorses (May 3, 2015)

When I first started riding my horse, she was a crazy spit fire that would always test me, it has been 6 months now and she has finally gotten used to me and is quiet like she was with her last rider, lately she has been super lazy and not moving off my leg and not reacting to the crop. My trainer suggested spurs, but I am not sure which ones would work best? I like the tom thumb because they are short so if my foot turned slightly, it wouldnt effect her like a longer necked spur. Has anyone had experience with a horse like mine that needs just a tiny bit more than a crop? Thanks!


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Are you riding English or western? I've never heard of Tom Thumb spurs. :shrug:

I've ridden my gelding (who can be a bit of a plod) in bumper spurs and he responded well to them. 

Like these:









They have just enough on them to get his attention without having to worry about being overkill.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Nope to be honest...I like the crop for forward and spurs to work on moving off the leg for lateral work.

If the horse is dead to the crop I would question how you are using it, and if he has changed that much I would also be asking WHY? Is he fit healthy, well fed?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

You should be using that crop more effectively, if that horse doesn't listen to strong leg and seat, and not even a crop, then you have a problem. Spurs are for refinement, but eventually she'll tune those out too.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

spurs are not for 'forward'. a crop is for that. and, you need to consider what is happening to make a forward horse into a lazy horse. , and , could YOU and your riding have anything to do with that transformation?


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I don't want to be rude, but why do jumpers and, for lack of a better word, "cowboys" use spurs if not for forward? I don't see too much leg yielding in a cattle drive? Just to clarify, I don't use spurs at all.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Good point.

I can't answer. One thing is thT their hands are occupied .

But , a horse that is sullied up and resisting forward is more likely to stop resisting by use is a crop or whip than by Spurs .


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

While I've never done an actual cattle drive, I do work a lot of cattle in different settings, and it's all done by leg yields and the seat. The "forward" impulsion is achieved by the riders seat and things like pivoting, rollbacks, directional changes are done by the legs. 

I agree with the others that spurs are not for making a horse go forward.


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

Horsef said:


> why do ... "cowboys" use spurs if not for forward?


If "cowboys" are using spurs for forward, they are not "real" cowboys. All the cowboys I know (born, raised and riding around cattle all their lives) never use spurs for forward. As others have said, they use them for refinement. When I needed more forward, my trainers told me to use my romal - the cow horse equivalent to a crop, LOL.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

riders DO use spurs for forward, but as a cue to a horse that already knows to go forward off the leg. so, if the horse already accepts the leg, the spur gives a sharper, more distinct signal, but should be really sort of "stroking" the horse, not jabbing it. the spur allows the rider to signal the "go" without having to move his/her leg much to do this. 

it the horse is much resistant to the leg, he may well be resistant to a spur, too. 
in which case you'd have to spur harder and harder and have no refinement at all left.

I think you CAN get a lazy horse perked up with spurs. but, it may destroy your ability to ever use them for refinement. 

for lazy horses, using a long rein and doing an "over and under" whack whack on their barrel, or even on their shoulder, can often wake them up (though you may get some bucks, too). then, when they are awake, you can apply a very light leg/spur and get a proper response.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I think I should qualify my earlier response.

My gelding is responsive to leg. He was moving off leg pressure his very first ride. I use my bumper spurs more as a reinforcement of the cue with my leg. There is no jabbing. I can get him moving forward without them, yet there are those times when he slows almost to the point of stopping that a nudge with the spurs reminds him that it isn't acceptable without me having to fully apply leg (which he will sometimes translate as "Oh! I'm supposed to trot?")  

I had a really bad experience with using a crop on a horse I rode (was my fault, somewhat, but still), so I'm not comfortable with using one, even on my well-behaved gelding. A bumper spur for a little reminder once in a while works well for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kewpalace (Jul 17, 2013)

I will clarify my response as well ... I wear spurs every ride. I do not use them to go forward but to reinforce my leg as needed. Mine are not bumper spurs, but I do not jab my horses with my spurs. I either press with them or roll them on the barrel, depending on the need.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Hmmm...SOME cowboys use spurs to force forward. Trooper was loaned to a ranch in Colorado with instructions to NOT cut cattle with him, so they decided to force the issue. It took a pro 5 weeks to get him past his fear of...cowboy hats:










Eight years later, he still has lumpy flesh there!​


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## sarahfromsc (Sep 22, 2013)

bsms said:


> Hmmm...SOME cowboys use spurs to force forward. Trooper was loaned to a ranch in Colorado with instructions to NOT cut cattle with him, so they decided to force the issue. It took a pro 5 weeks to get him past his fear of...cowboy hats:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Only the crap Cowboys do. Any crap rider in any discipline can sure ruin a good horse.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

sarahfromsc said:


> Any crap rider in any discipline can sure ruin a good horse.


That's for sure, and you find them in every discipline.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

What about jumping? Also used for latteral work or for forward reinforcement?


Sorry about a million questions, it's just that I've seen that prase, "spurs are for latteral work, not forward" a million times but In practice people mostly use them for forward (and it usually seems to work from what i've seen). Again, i don't use them so i have no dog In the fight, just trying to understand.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Horsef said:


> What about jumping? Also used for latteral work or for forward reinforcement?


Difficult to tell from just watching, you need to be able to keep a horse straight, so yes, the simplest of lateral work is to be straight!!




Horsef said:


> Sorry about a million questions, it's just that I've seen that prase, "spurs are for latteral work, not forward" a million times but *In practice people mostly use them for forward (and it usually seems to work from what i've seen).* Again, i don't use them so i have no dog In the fight, just trying to understand.


Interesting how do you make that assumption, most people are using them for forward, but it doesn't work......


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

Golden Horse said:


> Interesting how do you make that assumption, most people are using them for forward, but it doesn't work......


Just listening in during the jumping practice. "He's too slughish, use the spurs" - horse springs into action. I don't jump (except tiny little toothpick jumps), it's just something I've noticed. Granted, these aren't world class jumpers or trainers I'm watching...


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## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

I wear spurs but I don't really use them. Originally I had them to help with loping and picking up the correct lead, but I find myself just using leg pressure for that now. I felt like the spur helped me be more precise with what I was asking.


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## jenkat86 (May 20, 2014)

Golden Horse said:


> Interesting how do you make that assumption, most people are using them for forward, but it doesn't work......


I can understand why people make this assumption. Heck, if I had a dollar for everytime I heard, "My horse won't go, what do I do?" "Kick him!" my pockets would be dragging the floor.


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

If kicking a horse was a good way to make it go faster, jockeys would kick their race horses. If using spurs would work even better jockeys would wear spurs. I've never seen a jockey kick a horse or wear spurs.

When I want my horse to go I touch him with my heels. If he doesn't move out I cluck to him. If he still doesn't move out I threaten to whack him. And at last resort I do whack him. As long as you are consistent and follow through, you shouldn't have to go beyond touching with your heels.


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## ablhorses (May 3, 2015)

I still havent used spurs yet, i have been carrying a crop, but what that causes me to do is slowly loosen my reins and it is making it more difficult for me to ride my mare. If your reins arent short, she will take all the long distances she can get and I need to hold her back. She is also a total a** in corners and will pop her shoulder out and just dive through it if she can. I was looking for spurs for a little more leg support to refine her into her corners and push her over a little more, which is what she needs.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

ablhorses said:


> I still havent used spurs yet, i have been carrying a crop, but what that causes me to do is slowly loosen my reins


Why? I can understand a fumble that makes you lose a rein, but what is happening that means that you are slowly loosening?

What height are you jumping? Maybe you should trust her more, or set her up better further out, if she is finding her own length.


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## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Horsef said:


> I don't want to be rude, but why do jumpers and, for lack of a better word, "cowboys" use spurs if not for forward? I don't see too much leg yielding in a cattle drive?


 you haven't seen a lot of cow work then, have you? Because its almost all off the leg.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Horsef said:


> I don't want to be rude, but why do jumpers and, for lack of a better word, "cowboys" use spurs if not for forward? I don't see too much leg yielding in a cattle drive? Just to clarify, I don't use spurs at all.


Spurs are truly NOT intended to make a lazy horse go forward. Spurs are meant for refinement and "invisability" of cues. 

Of course, there are plenty of folks out there who are using spurs for the wrong reason. 

There's plenty of need for lateral movement in a cattle drive. If the rider is doing their aides correctly, you won't even know they're cuing the horse. When you need to cut a cow back to the herd, you'll use your seat and legs to guide your horse. You don't travel in a perfectly straight line all the time; there's always subtle lateral movements. 

Same with jumping. You have tight corners you have to make in the course, as well as flying lead changes, and getting your horse set up for the jump. All of that is subtle lateral movements and leg/seat cues you are giving to your horse. 

Pretty much any discipline can have a need for refinement of cues where using spurs can be applicable. Even western pleasure!! The horses' movements are trained off of the spurs, but again, it's really not for the purpose to "make the horse move forward". It's to refine the cues and make them invisible. 




ablhorses said:


> When I first started riding my horse, she was a crazy spit fire that would always test me, it has been 6 months now and she has finally gotten used to me and is quiet like she was with her last rider, lately she has been super lazy and not moving off my leg and *not reacting to the crop. *
> 
> Has anyone had experience with a horse like mine that needs just a tiny bit more than a crop?


Then you aren't using the crop effectively. :wink: When you use it, mean it. 

It's okay for a horse to be laid back (personality). It is not okay for them to be LAZY and dead to aides. 

I agree with the other posters that you need to get your point across to your horse, and spurs are not the way to go about it. 

Spurs are to further make your cues more quiet and invisible; not to make your cues "more harsh" so the horse pays attention.


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

ablhorses said:


> I still havent used spurs yet, i have been carrying a crop, but what that causes me to do is slowly loosen my reins and it is making it more difficult for me to ride my mare. If your reins arent short, she will take all the long distances she can get and I need to hold her back. She is also a total a** in corners and will pop her shoulder out and just dive through it if she can. I was looking for spurs for a little more leg support to refine her into her corners and push her over a little more, which is what she needs.



I think you need a riding instructor to watch your riding and help you learn to use your legs, core, weight, and seat to control your mare. If you need to hold her back, your body is telling her to go---a horse should not be corrected for rider error.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

ablhorses said:


> I still havent used spurs yet, i have been carrying a crop, but what that causes me to do is slowly loosen my reins and it is making it more difficult for me to ride my mare. If your reins arent short, she will take all the long distances she can get and* I need to hold her back.* She is also a total a** in corners and will pop her shoulder out and just dive through it if she can. I was looking for spurs for a little more leg support to refine her into her corners and push her over a little more, which is what she needs.


Somehow missed this reply before I made a post. 

I don't mean this is a negative or offensive way, but if you can't even hold a crop and keep your reins steady at the same time, then you are not ready to strap spurs to your heels. 

If you are always needing to "hold her back" it sounds like there are other holes in your mare's training that need to be addressed before you are ready for what spurs are meant to provide. 

Sounds like she just needs more basic training. Period. In most cases, spurs are not the way to go about it. Going back to basics are!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Joel Reiter said:


> If kicking a horse was a good way to make it go faster, jockeys would kick their race horses. If using spurs would work even better jockeys would wear spurs. I've never seen a jockey kick a horse or wear spurs.
> 
> When I want my horse to go I touch him with my heels. If he doesn't move out I cluck to him. If he still doesn't move out I threaten to whack him. And at last resort I do whack him. As long as you are consistent and follow through, you shouldn't have to go beyond touching with your heels.


True, spurs used correctly, are only used to create lightness, by backing up non complience to LIGHT leg aids, and then going back to again asking with light leg aids, giving the horse a reason to respond to light leg alone.
However, the jockey comparison is not completely fair, because jockys are sitting so that legs alone are not effective, let alone correct application of spurs
It is also why horse soff the track know nothing about leg aids.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

6gun Kid said:


> you haven't seen a lot of cow work then, have you? Because its almost all off the leg.


 Agree. Why is it so many that have never ridden a western performance horse, just look at some horse being ridden out, and then not get it, that those horses trained to perform, like a horse in in other discipline work off of legs, and even more so, then horses always ridden on contact!


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

I had to google those spurs (Tom Thumb), but those are pretty terrible. The ones I found are slip-on, which is dangerous for the horses if you lose one. They are also the blunt shaft kind, which can be pretty severe. The more skinny and blunt the shaft, the worse it is. 

If you are looking for good starter spurs, I would suggest considering Bumper Spurs.

For a shanked spur with a rowel, get a shorter shank (1 to 1-1/2") with a larger diameter clover leaf rowel.

In larger diameters this type of rowel is pretty mild. 

In my opinion to really "earn your spurs" you need an independent seat and quiet legs with good clean leg cues. 

I don't mean to sound "preachy" about this, just sharing some thoughts. Some things to look at.

- Sitting centered in the middle of the saddle, straight up with shoulders square.
- Not leaning forward.
- Not leaning backwards.
- Not against the cantle of the saddle.
- Not pulling on the reins. 
- Not sitting flat on your butt. 
- Not maintaining constant squeeze/pressure with your legs ("holding on"). 

A very wise horse woman told me that a horse feels your seat the most of your cues and listens to what your seat is saying when she isn't sure what you want. Maybe that isn't your particular issue, but thought I'd mention it. Good luck.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

On the other points being made

Crops aren't used in many performance western riding for practical and historical reasons. In some classes/events they are illegal and from a pragmatic view the free hand is for a rope, opening gates, etc.. In my experience you can accomplish about the same thing by slapping your thigh so why would I want to hold that all the time? (kidding, but true). 

In performance western horsemanship the goal is quick athletic movement on a loose rein. So yeah, "Cowboys" use their seat and legs.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Before this goes completely off topic, and with respect to the Western Riders, like err me currently...

I do believe the OP is an English rider, who jumps, so that is what we are advising on......


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

I think what tiny is saying is that spurs can be (and are) used for forward on a horse who knows the forward cue, just needs a refinement of that cue (kind of like me using it on my gelding who knows the forward cue, but sometimes needs a reminder for forward-but-not-faster). A crop is for moving a reluctant or "stubborn/lazy/dull" horse forward, who is ignoring the forward cue in the first place.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I think what tiny is saying is that spurs can be (and are) used for forward on a horse who knows the forward cue, just needs a refinement of that cue (kind of like me using it on my gelding who knows the forward cue, but sometimes needs a reminder for forward-but-not-faster). A crop is for moving a reluctant or "stubborn/lazy/dull" horse forward, who is ignoring the forward cue in the first place.


Then it makes no sense to initially say "spurs are not for 'forward'. A crop is for that" when there are reasons to use spurs for forward, or in some disciplines it is common to use spurs for forward.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

a better way for saying that would be that spurs are not the best if you are expecting an argument. the spur can help remind a hrose that he needs to move promptly, but if the hrose is really sulling back, the spur would have to be used so hard as to damage the horse, or cuase it to rebel into bucking, instead of go forward.


I wasn't changing my mind, though that IS certainly an option for me. 

if I was parrotting anything, it is what i've been taught by trainers or others, here. guess that is parroting, since I don't used spurs. 
on a forum like this, it's going to be a Mulligan's stew of opinions. you don't have to agree with any or all.


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## jgnmoose (May 27, 2015)

Horses aren't dumb, and they see a lot, a whole lot. Wearing spurs or holding a crop may be all the motivation a certain horse needs to shape up and pay attention, whether you actually use these aids or not. 

I've seen some very good riders always cue with a spur. I've seen a few that wear them but never seem to actually use them, at least not that you can see. 

Animals have a way of making us look dumb if we think of them as binary, this or that type of scenarios.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

I do not own any spurs, don't participate in showing, don't own a horse property. 

Have always boarded my horses. In that fashion I've been around a lot of people who do show, and do own spurs, and use them to STOP their horses.

Especially the people I know who show their AQHA horses in 'Breed Shows'. 

Their horses 'have a spur stop on them".

Just saying.


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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

*Moderator Note*

Having just removed 8 posts from this thread that constitute ongoing ill will between HorseForum members that crosses over from one thread to another, and another, and another I am taking this opportunity to remind everyone that each thread is a new thread. 

Just like each day is a new day. Please start afresh. Do not carry baggage with you and set it down upon an innocent OP's doorstep.

Long time members may see questions seemingly time and again arising from newer members, and persons who are new to horses. It is not old stuff to them.

Please keep the HorseForum a friendly and helpful place for everyone to come. New and old.

Thank you.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

In English riding spurs are often worn to 'sharpen' a horse up - It looks bad in a showing class and totally out of place in any other class to see a rider constantly having to kick a horse that's not as responsive as it should be and wearing spurs can make a big difference to how that horse looks and performs
If you're going to use a crop or better still a long schooling whip effectively then you need to take one hand off the reins and give the horse a good feel of it behind your leg but if you're jumping and still a novice you might find that is an invitation to the horse to duck out if you're needing to use the whip as you approach the jump and you can't hold him straight with one hand - but you can't use the whip properly and have both hands on the reins when you use it or you'll be interfering with his mouth which could also take him 'off line'


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## Prairie (May 13, 2016)

The biggest problem with giving advice on a forum is that we can't physically be there to really see what is happening and why the horse is misbehaving. As a beginner at a hunter-jumper barn, the instructors emphasized that every horse was an individual that had unique needs, personalities, response to stimuli, etc. That was over 55 years ago and still holds true for me now. I'm not one to wear spurs since I was taught to use the natural aids of legs, weight, seat, and core to control and cue the horse, but that doesn't mean I won't if needed. When we really were going to work cattle, our "signal" to the horses was to wear spurs so they knew they were going to work---no spurs meant we were just counting noses and checking for any who were sick or injured. I also learned that just like the bit and reins, spurs were to refine the communication with the horse, not for forward----forward was cued with a bat/crop/whip if needed. However, since every horse is different, it really comes down to what works with that individual, not some theory or hard rule that's been taught forever. Tally Ho!


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## Joel Reiter (Feb 9, 2015)

jgnmoose said:


> So yeah, "Cowboys" use their seat and legs.


And if they touch their horse with their spurs and the horse doesn't respond, they whack him across the butt with the free end of their mecate rein.


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## alsosusieq2 (Apr 30, 2016)

waresbear said:


> You should be using that crop more effectively, if that horse doesn't listen to strong leg and seat, and not even a crop, then you have a problem. Spurs are for refinement, but eventually she'll tune those out too.




^^^^ what's said above. Figure out what is going on, probably with you not the horse. Have him cleared on a vet check, might be ulcers bothering him 60% have them


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## Tazmanian Devil (Oct 11, 2008)

anndankev said:


> Have always boarded my horses. In that fashion I've been around a lot of people who do show, and do own spurs, and use them to STOP their horses.


Excellent point. It illustrates an important issue.

Horses are not born knowing the cues we provide. Horses are taught to react in certain ways to certain cues that we invent.

These cues are essentially random. Through many years and many different disciplines, certain cues/methods have become more or less standardized. This cue for stop, that cue for turn, etc. A standard system has many benefits.

That doesn't mean everyone follows the exact same system. 

You can easily teach a horse to go "faster" with spurs. You can also teach a horse to stop with the use of spurs. Just like you can teach a horse that "whoa" means go and a "cluck" means stop. Neither is inherently "right" and some disciplines may create "non-standard" cues that work for their particular purpose (such as the spur stop).

The OP can certainly use spurs to make the horse more "reactive" to cues. It wouldn't be the first time someone has done that.

However, I would agree with other posters that doing so isn't the best idea. As has already been pointed out 1) it would likely be a temporary fix until the horse learns to tune out the cue and 2) in most disciplines, spurs serve a different purpose (partly because of #1)

Equipment can be a big help when used properly. When unsure of the actual problem or proper use of the equipment, it is usually best to get a qualified trainer involved to help analyze the situation and make the proper recommendation.


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