# Turnout Charge



## MoodIndigo (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm going to say yes and no.

I have always boarded at farms that include turnout. But many of the managers/owners lived on-site and did the turnout. I have visited one facility that made you turn out yourself. I didn't want to do that, so I found a new one. (I think you could have paid extra like your situation, but in my opinion that is silly.) Especially if your horse is only getting 2 hours of turnout. How much are you paying extra? I'd say if it was $30 or less, go for it! Other than that, find a new place..

Also, sorry to hear about your previous situation. That is truly a sad place. Glad you got it together and moved out!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

A little odd, and it does make me nervous that they aren't living on the property. A maximum of two hours of turnout per day? That is really not healthy for the horse, anyway. For a healthy horse in good flesh, the more turnout, the better for both body and mind. Is pasture board an option, or a half stall / half pasture arrangement?


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## SSPO (Aug 3, 2011)

*Turnout charge*

Hi MoodIndigo and Bubba,
No, pasture board (or half and half) isn't an option. They say they are in the process of building more turn out pens/areas. Right now they have a small-medium round pen (just dirt/sand) in the back of the stable, and an area about the size of your usual outdoor arena in front of the stable, uneven and grassy. The two managers, husband and wife, each said different things. He said they get turned out in the round pan, she said they get turned out in the grassy area. Both said it was one or two horses at a time, for a 2 hour max. I think they should be out more than 2 hours per day as well. And I don't mind mine getting turned out with more than one other horse.... One of the gals that moved to this barn with me had her parents deliver her round pen the day after she arrived there, and she turns her horse out there with a friends' most of the day. But they want to keep that for just the two of them. Management really liked the idea of them bringing their own pen. Like I said, they say they are going to be turning other areas of the property into enclosures, but who knows how long that will take. They didn't mention how much more they wanted to charge for turn out. Board is $250 for stall, cleaning (daily, I hope!), grain and hay twice per day, they check that their water is full and their box fans are on each night around 9pm. Or so they say. After such a bad experience at my first barn, I have a hard time believing that anybody does anything at the barn that they say they will. I hope this place will be better, and maybe if I know the right questions to ask, I can help it be that way. Thanks.


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## MoodIndigo (Oct 18, 2010)

Yikes! It makes me nervous that they're saying two different things! Looks like they're a bit unorganized, huh? I love, love, love the fans... the barns I've been to won't allow fans. My horse is jealous


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

Find a new barn I say.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

When barn shopping you have to ask about all the things that matter to you. The longer you have a horse the more you will learn what those things are. When boarding you have to remember the most important bit of information - their barn, their rules.
Never go into a boarding situation expecting it to change to accommodate you. (And no, I am not saying you are doing that at all here, just putting the information out there since you are new to boarding.)

I do not find what they saying to be strange or unusual. Is it something I would agree to? No. But I do not find it out of line or anything. I simply do not like barns with a whole list of fees. If this is their only fee then you can just consider that board is board plus turn out fee instead of just board.

I do not find the husband and wife not saying the same thing in this case alarming. I am married. My husband hears what he wants to hear. Which is not always what I said.

Will they allow you to build your own turn out area, like this other new boarder has done?


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## wetrain17 (May 25, 2011)

If you want advice, I would keep looking for other barns. Honestly, I've never come across a barn that charges for turnout. That is _usually_ included in board. But every barn is different. Keep in mind that if they charge you for turnout, what else will they charge you for. You dont want to end up with a board bill thats a lot more then what you plan on.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

These are questions that should of been asked before you brought your horse there.

As far as the paperwork - until the contract is signed, your horse would not be covered by our liability insurance. Not sure if it works that way at this barn but - another red flag.


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## WhoaNow (Jan 18, 2011)

wetrain17 said:


> *
> If you want advice, I would keep looking for other barns.
> 
> Honestly, I've never come across a barn that charges for turnout.
> ...


Ditto this!



mls said:


> These are questions that should of been asked before you brought your horse there.
> As far as the paperwork - until the contract is signed, your horse would not be covered by our liability insurance.
> Not sure if it works that way at this barn but - another red flag.


This too!
And I agree that 2 hours turn out is NOT NEARLY ENOUGH T/O per day.
Your horse will be very bored standing in a stall all day, and could potentially develop bad habits, 
*and comprised health *because of it:?.
And he will likely be A LOT more active when you go out to ride (excess pent up energy).
Be prepared for these things if you stay.
JMO


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## SSPO (Aug 3, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback so far. Timing wasn't ideal for this move, I will agree. I didn't want my horse to get beat again (he was swollen on his sides and down his legs from spurs and being kicked by the trainer on the ground because he wouldn't walk through water), and get another vet bill for it. He deserves better treatment than that. Another boarder was leaving that day for the new barn. I ran over to the new barn after work (I'm a doctor and had to wait until I was done with patients) to see it and meet the managers, then back to put my horse on her trailer for the ride over, since I don't have other transportation for him at the moment. I was pretty desperate, and would have moved him almost anywhere as long as it didn't have shards of broken glass on the ground or rabid dogs. I am a by-the-rules person (physician/stick-in-the-mud-Capricorn, lol), probably to a fault. Red flags for me are lack of turnout, conflicting information (he says board includes turnout, she says turn out is extra), lack of signing paperwork that outlines groundwork before he spent his first night there, and general lack of guidelines before they left for their 2 week vacation. (they said a certain boarder was in charge of feeding/cleaning, we were all responsible for turnout, and paperwork would be signed when they got back). "Horseback Riding For Dummies" states that if a stable is lax/not very clear in guidelines and paperwork to sign in the beginning, they may also be lax or careless in taking care of your horse. I moved here in a big hurry. The three other new boarders seem very happy with the barn (the two with the round pen have had horses their whole lives), I'm the only one that has concerns so far, and it has only been 6 days. I'm wondering if I just need to give it time, and not be so judgemental (High Maintainence?) at first. Please keep the suggestions coming, it is really helpful for me. I just want the best care for my horse. Thanks!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Since you have two weeks before any contracts are signed--are there any other boarding facilities in the area? Ones that offer more turnout, and perhaps more clear guidelines?


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Ok, when I read about the 2 hour turnout, I thought "this OP must be mistaken, or joking"....

Assuming you are NOT joking, 2 hours turnout is completely unacceptable in my world. It is not only outrageous, it is unhealthy for the horse's mind and body. PLEASE do not do this to your horse. Staying in a stall for 22 hours a day is horse abuse, IMO. Horses should not be caged, it is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, My horses have stalls, and yes we do use them....but ONLY if the weather is, in my opinion, nasty .... otherwise they are out 24/7. 

Sorry to rant, but caging horses is just something that really upsets me. It is soooo unfair to them and soooo against their natural way of life.


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## MicKey73 (Dec 26, 2010)

Regarding paying for turnout, it's very popular where I live. I just moved from a barn where I paid $40 a month for 2 hours turnout Monday-Friday. Weekend turnout was your responsibility, and was *technically* limited to 2 hours, but I was always able to get him more hours because I was out every day. That being said, I ALWAYS wanted more turnout, but it just wasn't possible, so I made sure I was out every single day, either riding or doing ground work.

About the apparent lax management...If they are running things this loose now with you being a brand new boarder who left the previous facility with MAJOR complaints, (with good reason it sounds like) I would run for the hills. From a business standpoint, it is a horrible idea on their part to trust you. Did they even ask for references or vaccination records? If no, you aren't the only one they haven't asked. It's also normal for anyone to be on their best behavior at the beginning of the 'relationship', not just shrug their shoulders and say, 'meh.. we'll do all that legal stuff later.' 
They have every right to ask you for whatever they feel is neccessary, and vice versa, only for you, it's critical for the care of your horse. Hearing that you aren't sure how often stalls are cleaned is also discouraging. 

Run for the hills!! Your horse deserves better. They are creatures of habit and routine. Doesn't sound like this place has much of that..


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Only offering 2 hours of turn out does not shock me enough to call the place horrible.
Do I think more is better? Sure, in most cases more is for sure better.

Some parts of the country turn out is such a premium thing that more is not really an option and even when they are turned out space is limited.

If the horse gets stimulation other ways (being ridden, ground work, hand grazing, etc) the horse is not suffering.


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## SSPO (Aug 3, 2011)

Hi Folks,
Thanks for the feedback. This is a very small rural town...so if $250 per month seems like a low amount to pay for horse boarding, consider that MY monthly rent on a 2 bedroom apartment is $350 per month. From the sounds of it, with the amount of turnout I want, his rent will very soon surpass mine, But that's ok with me. (I just moved here from a city of 3 million people...proportionately to my old rent for a 2 bedroom place, that would make his board $857, lol.)

For the past week while the managers are gone we have worked out a turn out schedule of 2 hours (5-7 in the morning, then I do groundwork with him for about 20 minutes), then after work we do groundwork again or I ride him for 30-45 minutes. I will continue to do turnout with my friend until BMs get back, then see if I can pay for extra turnout (another 2 hours), and let them know that as soon as they build more paddocks I would like more than 2 hours. Meanwhile, I'm getting the names of other barns that are within daily driving distance...so far I have 2. I'll call them anyway to ask what policy they have for new boarders, and that might give me an idea if the grass is greener on their side of the fence, so to speak. As they say, sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know...I might be able to adapt something that works really well with this barn (and I'm not saying they are the devil by any means.)

In defense of the BMs not asking me for vaccinations/health records, we use the same vet, and they knew he had just had a full work up because I didn't know what the spur and kick marks were all over his body from the horse trainer. But I'm going to ask the other boarders if they were asked for vaccination records. Also, as far as trusting me, they recognized my name as the new doctor in town, so they knew I wasn't a dodgy person. 

Thanks again for the responses. It has helped me know what to expect.
I'm going to wait to talk to the BMs about all of this, instead of speculating and coming up with the worst possible scenarios. Speculating, instead of communicating, doesn't tend to be productive for me. If I'm not happy after I talk with them, I'll move on.


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## BarnBum (Oct 23, 2009)

Massive amounts of red flags going off here. 
They absolutely should not charge for turnout. That is generally including in board if its full care, and if its self care than its expected that you do it. So you need to find out what their definition of what their board is. 

Two hours a day is absolutely NOT okay. NO. No. No. Especially in a little tiny round pen. Thats a great way to get your horse depressed and non-respondant. Think of being stuck in your bathroom all day long, with nothing new to look at and no room to excercise. Horses are used to walking when they graze, covering a ton of distance in the wild. Thats how they are formed. 

Get a new barn.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Here in SW WI there are some barns that charge for every little thing. The worst one does this: $1/day to turn out, $1/day to bring back in, $ blanketing-on/off, $ fly spraying, $20/month for a fan or heat in winter, $1 per supplement given that the horse owner supplies, $15 to hold for vet/farrier & my favorite- $5 to the BO every time a person had a lesson, no matter who teaches it- the boarders had to write their lessons on a calandar so the BO would know.
Turnout was a packed dry lot or swamp( scratches were common). Hay quality fluctuated (mold) & they limited how much each horse could have. If a horse needed more they charged more. I know this because I've had a boarder come from that place.
For some reason the H/J or dressage barns have the most extra charges.

Keep looking, ask questions, talk to current boarders & you'll find a nice place.


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## SSPO (Aug 3, 2011)

*Turnout fee*

Thanks for the feedback, everybody. So far the extra charges have been $25 for turnout M-F, and we are responsible for our own turnout Sat and Sunday (2 hr max), and extra hay for my OTTB comes out to $20 per month. They won't/don't put on his fly sheet or fly mask, but I also didn't pester them about it after the first time. Overall, he is so much healthier at this barn than the last barn. The barn owner and managers are pretty reasonable and they seem to really care about the horses. They called me when they knew the vet was already coming out so that I could share the charge with the other border (they knew I was going to call the vet anyway). Also, when I asked for a dehumidifier in the musty tack room, they provided one within a few days. On the downside, I think they don't require vaccination papers because they may not be vaccinating their horses, but that is conjecture on my part. A few of them have had pretty bad coughs. They are really involved with getting my horse to a better weight (maybe too much so , and getting his hooves right after his last terrible ferrier. The new turnout pens will be ready in a week or so, so we will probably get a few more hours each day. Thanks again!


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Two hours of turn-out per day isn't great and is not ideal in any sense and can lead to health/attitude problems BUT I would not go as far as saying that it is "abuse" or "absolutely not okay." In areas where turn-out is extremely limited geographically, it is the best they can do. I had my horse at such place for four years and she was far happier and healthier than several other barns we've subsequently been at where she has been out all day. In this case, the *routine* was more important for her sanity than the amount of time she spent outside. The barn was also a busy riding school, so she had lots to look at and people to talk to while she spent the day in her stall and I was pretty anal about riding her six days per week. In any case, would I keep a horse at such a place again? Not if I could help it. But is it evil? No.

I've never had my horse in an abusive situation, luckily, but I have been in situations where the barn owner and I had quite different views about care and what should be done to deal with say, a horse losing weight. I think I said this to someone else on the forum, but when I start feeling like I have to be my horse's advocate to the barn owner on a regular basis is when I start looking for other barns. Because it should not be like that.


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