# Critique Possible Buy for barrels(hopefully the one!)



## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

I honestly can not tell from those pictures if his foot really turns out like that. I would ask the seller if she could get you some good square pictures from front back left and right just to make sure.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

It really looks like his foot is turned out in all the pictures, yeah it may be that he is just standing funky but i really doubt he would be in every single picture. Then again you cant really tell in pictures, i would ask the owner for pictures of him squared up on an even surface and also pictures of him in action, that should help you be able to tell


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Based on those photos alone, I'd pass. His legs would make me very leery. No foundation, no horse. Ask for good squared up confo shots on a flat surface from both sides, back & front. Video of him moving would be beneficial too.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

I just gutsied up and emailed asking her if it is indeed turned out. It would honestly break my heart if it is. He's exactly what I'm looking for personality wise and I like how he's built also. My heart is getting ready to pound out of my chest waiting for a reply. I'm so nervous. I've been looking for MONTHS and I finally find one where I get that _feeling_ and something may be wrong with him.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

How old is he? He's a bit downhill. As for the leg, to me it looks to be permanently turned out or maybe it just turns out when he walks.
My friend's dad has a gelding who stands square, but when he walks or trots, his one back foot sort of turns/swivells out. 
I would definitely get more pictures and maybe a video of his movements, just to be really sure before making the drive.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

lilruffian- He's 4. I believe he looks that way because in a few shots he's standing on a hill. If he is it's not terrible.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Ugh it's what I feared  His leg isn't turned but his foot is. She said he's never been lame on it and it never caused a problem but I just can't risk it causing issues down the road, especially since he would have been a barrel racer. I'm right about this aren't I, that it could cause issues down the road? I felt so bad saying no but I couldn't risk it.

I'm so upset. I've gone through countless ads over the past I don't know how many months and when I finally get the _feeling_ it crashes. I don't know maybe it was the wring feeling. My friend suggested I go back to ripping horses confos apart because at least then I was hopeful and happy. 

I also hate that I let myself get attached so fast. I'm vowing to not let myslef get attached until the horse is on my trailer and coming home with me!! 

How do you guys get through the let downs of horse buying. Phantom and TC just kinda fell into my life and So far my first experience of looking to buy is not turning out so well.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

I can't help you there my colt was a miracle my mare was the first horse I saw and my others were given to me.
In my opinion horse buying is a really personal business. I always look to people I know and trust before I go to the market


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

Don't be upset, it is much better to do what you are doing and take your time and get the right horse. 
I get attached too when I am horse shopping, you need to force yourself to keep a sane head about it.

I am glad you are going to pass on this one, I would too!


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

AlexS said:


> Don't be upset, it is much better to do what you are doing and take your time and get the right horse.
> I get attached too when I am horse shopping, you need to force yourself to keep a sane head about it.
> 
> I am glad you are going to pass on this one, I would too!


Thank you Alex. Its encouragement like this that keeps me going. I've been at this for months and time and time again it just seems to end with me being discouraged and upset and not wanting to look anymore. I'm going to try as hard as I can to not get attached to any more horses because it seems when I get attached my heart gets broken. 

Back to square one.


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## MaryMary (Nov 7, 2010)

Aww, chin up. Your heart's not that broken, because you were only attached to a dream, not a real horse. You still have your dream, and some day you will have your dream horse! Horse buying is not for the faint of heart. It is long and disappointing, especially when funds are limited. I'm sure you were right to pass on this guy. Once you are truly attached to a real horse, then it might be heart break time.

Keep looking, and don't be afraid to ask the sellers lots of questions! YOur horse IS out there ...

I looked for mine for 6 months, then once we bought him it was a hard slog for 6 more months to be able to ride well enough that we were a good match (he was "too good" for me at first). Finally we are in love with each other, but it's been a long road.


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## Ace80908 (Apr 21, 2011)

No matter how hard it is, stand your ground and don't lose sight of what you need your horse to be able to do - barrels are hard on a horse, and getting the horse that is built correctly is the first step in keeping him sound.

- trust me, this I know as my horse sits in his stall due to a lameness issue...


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## milk (Oct 9, 2011)

Pleanty of horses with imperfect feet and legs have become amazing athletes; if his temperment matches yours I would overlook the foot and buy him if the asking price is right. He'll only have problems down the road if you train him wrong.


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## bubbleslove (Mar 9, 2010)

milk said:


> Pleanty of horses with imperfect feet and legs have become amazing athletes; if his temperment matches yours I would overlook the foot and buy him if the asking price is right. He'll only have problems down the road if you train him wrong.


So you're saying that poor conformation would have nothing to do with a potential break down later on, even if the horse was to be used for something as physically demanding as barrels? 

If so, that's news to me...


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

milk said:


> Pleanty of horses with imperfect feet and legs have become amazing athletes; if his temperment matches yours I would overlook the foot and buy him if the asking price is right. He'll only have problems down the road if you train him wrong.


I greatly disagree - conformation means EVERYTHING for a horse being able to do a sport, or not do a sport. 

That's rediculous.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Phantom I admire you for being strong and taking your time to find the right horse, I know what you mean about falling in love and thinking you have found THE ONE, just through an ad.

You have a lot of great advice and support here, and of course you are right to pass on a fault like that, if you are buying an athlete then you don't buy obvious problems.

Any advice that buying a horse with a defect, and then blaming yourself because it goes wrong later because you trained him wrong is frankly totally ludicrous. That is a very sweet looking horse, and if you were looking for a trail buddy then I would maybe overlook it, but barrels is hard on the soundest of horses.

I wish you all the luck in the world with your search, I hope you find THE ONE soon


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Phantom, 

I believe your assessment was correct and you've made the right decision. I have a horse with a much less obvious problem who is only suitable for light riding. The whole reason I have him is he would not have stood up, soundness wise, to anything other than light riding, and rather than risk it and break him down, his owner found him a suitable home.

Yes, we've all known horses with glaring confo flaws who were non the less successful within a discipline, but we know about them *because* they're exceptions and the other 9 horses with similiar confo flaws just didn't make it. 

When you're looking and buying is the time to be very, very clear about your needs and expectations. After you have them in your barn is too late. 

Stick to your guns and keep looking. The right horse is out there somewhere.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Phantom you are making the right decision on skipping this guy.
Many things can be overlooked but not a front leg confo issue,
especially for a barrel horse. 
We had a huge barrel mare that we put tons of money in and she
abcessed in her front right. Did everything possible to get her
right but her foot turned out. We eventually got her fixed up
but her barrel career was over, she's now a fine broodmare/trail
horse. Keep up the looking, you gotta kiss a thousand frogs before
you find the prince!


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## milk (Oct 9, 2011)

MIEventer said:


> I greatly disagree - conformation means EVERYTHING for a horse being able to do a sport, or not do a sport.
> 
> That's rediculous.


that is ridiculous. in fact, it's so ridiculous, it's REDiculous!
I'm sure shes not looking for a barrle horse to take to national comps. I stand behind my statement that if she trains/uses the horse right on the barrles, he'd be just fine. 
However, skipped out on him, so no harm done, anyways, right?


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Thanks guys. I've been keeping my chin up and looking around. And if it wasn't any harder I'm limited on the gender of horse I can get. At my barn I am not allowed to have a mare. I can only have a gelding or a colt and geld the colt. The only problem is, all of the horses I find that are built the way I want them to be are mares. =/

I know I made the right decision on this one, I just couldn't take the chance of something happening to me and I am PARANOID when it comes to their legs and feet. I know so many people who have barrel raced horses that didn't have sound and strong legs and the horses were broken down before they were 12. 

Milk- I do intend and hope for my future horse to take me far in the barrel world, so it is extremely important to me that I get one that is built sound and sturdy for the job. 

Thanks for the encouragment guys. I'm going to continue looking with my head high and I am determined to not fall in love with a horse until I physically have it at my barn.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

milk said:


> that is ridiculous. in fact, it's so ridiculous, it's REDiculous!
> I'm sure shes not looking for a barrle horse to take to national comps. I stand behind my statement that if she trains/uses the horse right on the barrles, he'd be just fine.
> However, skipped out on him, so no harm done, anyways, right?


I'm sorry Milk but it is your statements that are ridiculous, why on earth would you buy potential trouble, in this market??

Why would you try and make a horse perform a discipline that it's conformation is a question mark for, it just makes no sense. As I said before, there is probably nothing wrong with him, he may stay sound for years, but it, in my mind would be in that horses best interest to go to a home where he wont be required to be a sports horse. 

Anyone who cares for horses would try and choose the best conformed horse for their chosen sport, it will hopefully give the horse the longest and fullest working life, and save the owner vet fees and heartbreak further down the road.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

milk said:


> that is ridiculous. in fact, it's so ridiculous, it's REDiculous!
> I'm sure shes not looking for a barrle horse to take to national comps. I stand behind my statement that if she trains/uses the horse right on the barrles, he'd be just fine.
> However, skipped out on him, so no harm done, anyways, right?


Well, since we're going to be snarky about misspellings now, last I heard, there's no such thing as a "barrle" horse and "barrles" isn't an equine event :roll:.

As for the rest of your post, are you serious? Do you have _any _experience at all with performance horses...or horses in general? Yes, _some_ horses can still do well in spite of minor flaws. What this horse has is most certainly _*not *_a minor flaw. To suggest that someone buy him and still try to make a performance horse out of him shows carelessness and lack of knowledge on your part.

Phantom, I am glad that you decided against him, too. Don't get discouraged, there are lots of good horses out there to be had. When that perfect one comes along, you'll be glad that you didn't compromise on an earlier prospect and get something that may not have been exactly what you wanted. You just keep that chin up and those eyes looking forward, you'll find the one you are searching for eventually.


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

smrobs couldnt agree with you more. Phantom if you pm your criteria for what your looking for i can help you search. Height, age, gender, breed, price, location, etc.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I agree with SMrobd, Phantom, In this market you can do far better then a horse with a major leg issue. When I went searching for a horse for a para rider it took close on 12 months to find the right horse and TBH we realy did not want a mare and we certainly did not want anything younger than 8 and we wanted a warmblood or ISH. We ended up with a 6 yrold exracehorse mare. But her confo and temprement are spot on and everything else can be schooled into her!

Milk, I've never read such an idiotic statement before in my life. Conformation is extremely important in a competition horse, perticularly if you want long term soundness at a half decent level.

Yes I do know of a couple of dressage horses with a turned in toe who compete at a good level, or those with a slightly long back but it does make it harder for the horse and will restrict the level they can compete to. The vast majority of breakdowns in competition horses are purely down to bad conformation. normaly a leg that is unable to stand up to the pressure being exerted onto it!


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## milk (Oct 9, 2011)

Come on now fellas, I know conformation is important. I'm just saying my origional comment is historically accurate.


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## Macslady (Oct 23, 2009)

Do you have an amount limit for your purchase of a horse? And what part of the country are you located?


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Basically, I'm looking for an unbroke horse(has not had a saddle or rider on it's back) between the ages of 2-4. My price limit it $600 but willing to go higher for the right horse. Registered QH or Paint. Bloodlines for barrel racing are a plus. Any color. Geldings or colts only(if it is a colt it will be gelded) Located in the mid-atlantic area. Less than 7 hours from the zip code 08094. 

If anyone knows anything that fits this criteria please PM me the info, It would hopefully expand my search a little. Sites I have been looking on are, dreamhorse.com, equine.com, equinenow.com, and horsetopia.com.


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## bubbleslove (Mar 9, 2010)

Have you looked on Barrel Horse World at all? Sometimes you'll see unbroke horses with the right lines on there...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

Milk. First of all you made a really big assumption about phantom not wanting to go big with her horse. Second cconfprmation is THE most important thing in speed events Especially barrels. Even if it was a minor thing that's fine for simple riding I would NEVER ride a horse with ANY kind of confirmation problem for speed events Especially because that "minor" problem could lead to big problems...

Phantom im just curious about the whole mare ban? Is there a stud at that barn or is it just that they don't like mares. Just curious
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## milk (Oct 9, 2011)

Roperchick said:


> Milk. First of all you made a really big assumption about phantom not wanting to go big with her horse. Second cconfprmation is THE most important thing in speed events Especially barrels. Even if it was a minor thing that's fine for simple riding I would NEVER ride a horse with ANY kind of confirmation problem for speed events Especially because that "minor" problem could lead to big problems...
> 
> Phantom im just curious about the whole mare ban? Is there a stud at that barn or is it just that they don't like mares. Just curious
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nah man. Conformation is very imoportant, but it's not THE most important thing. If the horse's heart isn't in it, you'll go nowhere. Maybe I'm just a dumb American.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Roperchick said:


> Phantom im just curious about the whole mare ban? Is there a stud at that barn or is it just that they don't like mares. Just curious
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My BO"s wife just doesn't want mares because a few years ago they had a mare at the barn and they had a horse(gelding) that ran through the fences to get to her. In the process let all the other horses out and half of them ran up the rad to our farriers house. My BO explained to her that that horse is gone now and none of the boys there would do it, she doesn't want to risk it. 

Understandable, it's not my place so I'm happy to follow the rules laid infront of me  I've always been partial to geldings anyway but I thought it would be a fun experience to work with a mare. Once I find my own place, I'll eventually get a mare haha.


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## bubbleslove (Mar 9, 2010)

Phantomcolt18 said:


> My BO"s wife just doesn't want mares because a few years ago they had a mare at the barn and they had a horse(gelding) that ran through the fences to get to her. In the process let all the other horses out and half of them ran up the rad to our farriers house. My BO explained to her that that horse is gone now and none of the boys there would do it, she doesn't want to risk it.


See, I would want that gelding to go - it's not the mare's fault that the gelding didn't know he's not a stud :-?


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bubbles- Sorry I should have been more specific. The mare didn't get sold(well she did but years after the incident), they sold the gelding after they realized nothing would keep him in. She just doesn't want the boys at the farm to get riled up from a mare(even though they're all geldings).


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

milk said:


> Nah man. Conformation is very imoportant, but it's not THE most important thing. If the horse's heart isn't in it, you'll go nowhere. Maybe I'm just a dumb American.


 You're totally missing the point. No matter how much heart the horse has, it will still wear itself down if its conformation can't support it. Conformation IS the most important thing as it is an indicator of how well the horse will be able to do its job for the longest time.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Just in the interest of total fairness, conformation without heart won't get you very far either!

BUT, you have to start looking at the conformation first


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## milk (Oct 9, 2011)

THANK you golden horse! Dang, for a while there I was feeling like all the posts were "You're machine has to be built right" -overlooking the horse as a living entitiy that makes decisions. I KNOW conformation is important.


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## bubbleslove (Mar 9, 2010)

In my mind, it's almost worse if the horse has the heart for the sport, but can't physically hold up to it. Bubba's horse Bones comes to mind...


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

bubbleslove said:


> In my mind, it's almost worse if the horse has the heart for the sport, but can't physically hold up to it. Bubba's horse Bones comes to mind...


 
I actually wanted to say that but didn't realise it until a while after I had posted. Heart is important, but if your horse can't stand up to the stress its heart will put it through, it wont get very far.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Phantomcolt18 said:


> Ugh it's what I feared  His leg isn't turned but his foot is. She said he's never been lame on it and it never caused a problem but I just can't risk it causing issues down the road, especially since he would have been a barrel racer. I'm right about this aren't I, that it could cause issues down the road? I felt so bad saying no but I couldn't risk it.


I'm coming into this very late now, but as you already know, yes, that leg could cause some serious issues. I wouldn't worry about it for playday level stuff, but for high end competition, those tendons likely won't last. But quite frankly, the rest of the horse isn't built ideal for the big levels, either.



Phantomcolt18 said:


> Thank you Alex. Its encouragement like this that keeps me going. I've been at this for months and time and time again it just seems to end with me being discouraged and upset and not wanting to look anymore. I'm going to try as hard as I can to not get attached to any more horses because it seems when I get attached my heart gets broken.


Have you been watching your local Craiglist? I see a lot of nice, cheap prospects turn up there.



milk said:


> Pleanty of horses with imperfect feet and legs have become amazing athletes; if his temperment matches yours I would overlook the foot and buy him if the asking price is right. He'll only have problems down the road if you train him wrong.


Really? Name five. 

And for the person so intent on pointing out others' spelling mistakes, what do "pleanty" and "temperment" mean?

And only have problems if you train him wrong? What does training have to do with it? It's about proper conditioning to prevent injury. But bad conformation does, indeed, cause lameness under work. That's a non-negotiable fact, and I could come up with dozens of exmamples to verify.



milk said:


> that is ridiculous. in fact, it's so ridiculous, it's REDiculous!
> I'm sure shes not looking for a barrle horse to take to national comps. I stand behind my statement that if she trains/uses the horse right on the barrles, he'd be just fine.
> However, skipped out on him, so no harm done, anyways, right?


What planet are you from? One sentence, you're saying conformation is important, next, it's all about training. Which is it?



milk said:


> Come on now fellas, I know conformation is important. I'm just saying my origional comment is historically accurate.


Historically....wha?



milk said:


> THANK you golden horse! Dang, for a while there I was feeling like all the posts were "You're machine has to be built right" -overlooking the horse as a living entitiy that makes decisions. I KNOW conformation is important.


What does making a decision have to do with staying sound?



bubbleslove said:


> In my mind, it's almost worse if the horse has the heart for the sport, but can't physically hold up to it. Bubba's horse Bones comes to mind...


Yep. That would be my....machine. More heart than you could ever ask for in a horse, all the talent in the world, but a left front leg that couldn't take the pounding.


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## Phantomcolt18 (Sep 25, 2007)

bubba13 said:


> Have you been watching your local Craiglist? I see a lot of nice, cheap prospects turn up there.


Yeah, I've been looking at craigslist a lot but the most I've seen are a TON of english trained horses, a few draft mixes, and one paint who's front pasterns are so long and curved it looks like his fetlocks would touch the ground when he trotted. 

All horses in NJ are significantly overpriced and no one wants to go down. The one I mentioned above with the long pasterns was priced at $1500 firm and he wasn't even registerable. 

This is so stressful. My friend (trying to keep my spirits up) is taking me to a few tackshops tomorrow that are not in our area to look at their "sale horse walls" they apparently have one full wall of horse ads for horses in that area. Hoping I find something by word of mouth or a paper trail, the internet sure isn't helping me any. 

I'm trying, this may be my first time horse shopping(got lucky with the first 2, I didn't have to look for them) but I know what I want and I am trying to stand as firm on that as I possibly can(though it is hard).


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## milk (Oct 9, 2011)

haters gonna hate.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

milk said:


> haters gonna hate.


:???: Not everyone who disagrees is a hater, it is perfectly OK for people to hold opposing views, hell got 3 horse people in a room and they will have at least 4 different opinions on anything


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)




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