# Vegetarian and Vegan members



## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

I'm a vegetarian!


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## LostDragonflyWings (Feb 1, 2012)

Vegetarian for about 7 years.


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## Cane Toad (Dec 20, 2012)

*raises hand* I'm a vegetarian, I have been on for 3 years (not very long) but the kids at school sometimes give me crap about it...and sometimes I almost buckle and give in to the meat they shove at my face, but I haven't yet and am not planning to. I have thought about going vegan but then I brought some chicken...working on getting a cow and some sheep so I know where the eggs and everything come from so I decided not to go vegan, and I get organic whenever I can. Nice to see there are some other vegies out here


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## Chokolate (Nov 24, 2012)

I'm not, but have always been interested (and I'm NOT having a go at vegetarians, this is just a question :smile as to how you get iron and other things that come from meat? I've always wondered that.


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## Cane Toad (Dec 20, 2012)

It's cool. I personally eat a lot of Legumes, Grains, Nuts and Seeds and vegetables (duh) I eat a lot of tofu (legumes) and mushrooms, even though I don't like them that much. If I think i'm lacking iron or anything else important i'll take a iron pill


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## Chokolate (Nov 24, 2012)

Thanks!


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## lovexlaugh (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm a vegetarian! My parents have always been, and they raised me and my brother as vegetarians. When we were old enough, they explained why people eat meat, and why we do not. I never remember it being their decision, I always made my own choice to refuse meat based on what I had been told about animals. My partner eats meat and I hate it, I have always made it clear that when we live together, there will be NO meat in my house!!


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

A question I would like to ask is - why are you vegetarian or vegan?

Personal interest.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

lovexlaugh said:


> My partner eats meat and I hate it, I have always made it clear that when we live together, there will be NO meat in my house!!


If he/she has always eaten meat, you can't expect them not to just because you don't. It will be their house too, and they'll have as much say about what food is brought in as you.

I predict this relationship is doomed unless you can learn to bend a little and realize that if you're sharing your life with someone you have to accept who they are, not try to change them to your ideal. 

I have no quarrel with vegetarians/vegans/ovo-lactos or the like. As long as you respect my choices, I'll respect yours.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm a vegetarian because I simply cant cope with the idea of eating something dead - just a phobia maybe but the thought makes me feel sick. I struggled as a child and eventually decided it was my choice when I got older and gradually drifted into it
I have no problem with cooking meat for other people and will pluck fowl, skin rabbits and gut them for anyone else to eat. I'm from a farming background so no fluffy lamb/cute little cow syndrome.


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## lovexlaugh (Feb 18, 2013)

Speed Racer said:


> If he/she has always eaten meat, you can't expect them not to just because you don't. It will be their house too, and they'll have as much say about what food is brought in as you.
> 
> I predict this relationship is doomed unless you can learn to bend a little and realize that if you're sharing your life with someone you have to accept who they are, not try to change them to your ideal.
> 
> I have no quarrel with vegetarians/vegans/ovo-lactos or the like. As long as you respect my choices, I'll respect yours.


I realise I've probably used the wrong words there. We have been together 2 years and this subject was obviously discussed within the first few weeks of the relationship. I told him, "I don't mind if there's meat in the house, but I don't feel comfortable cooking it". He replied that he would never feel comfortable bringing meat into the house. We discuss it regularly, and I do give him chances to backtrack and decide this isn't a choice for him, but he has never budged on the subject. It is a choice made by both of us. He wants to make me happy, and this is why I am with him. 

Just a side note: I've been involved with a few other boys when I was younger, and I never had any issues with my being vegetarian. My other "serious" relationships all gradually became vegetarian while dating me, just out of ease because that's what I would cook, and they were too lazy to make their own meal LOL


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

My sis turned V when she was in her teens. her kids have never eaten meat. it's "normal" to them. my bro went V just recently. I would not mind being V, or mostly so. I do all the cooking in this house, and often times I am happy with a meal that has not meat in it, but deal with a hubby who thinks a meal without meat is not a meal.

I like good V food, but oftentimes it seems that to get good V cooking, it takes more aforethought and effort; something I sorely lack.

If someone cooked for me, good V food, I'd be a Veggie today and forever!


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

jaydee said:


> I'm a vegetarian because I simply cant cope with the idea of eating something dead


Ughhh, that poor Vegetable was alive once :lol::lol:

Sorry, just had to say that :twisted:

.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

SouthernTrailsGA said:


> Ughhh, that poor Vegetable was alive once :lol::lol:
> 
> Sorry, just had to say that :twisted:
> 
> .


 Ahh, but when the only distance the "poor" veggie has to travel is 50 yards from the edge of the garden to the kitchen door.......then gets eaten immediately... it's still alive. :wink:
A flower doesn't wilt the second you pick it.

Jaydee, your reason is exactly why I was a Veggie for years until my son was born. 
My son has many allergies and diet restrictions and meat is needed to fill the gap in his diet where other foods are just not options.
But I do struggle sometimes cooking it (and eating it myself) so I only use completely humane natural, organic, grass fed things locally sourced.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I think that it is up to each individual whether they eat meat or not. I have several friends who are vegetarians, of those four do not like the texture of meat. One is purely for health issues, (his wife is a texture hater) but their two children have the choice of meat or not. 

What I cannot understand is when it is against animals being killed - it everyone was a vegetarian or a vegan then there would be no animals.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

We are what we are because of meat. Its the boost that lifted us out of the animal stage in evolution.

And when you pick a veg you cut off its food supply so therefore eating somthing dead.

Protein wise one needs less food intake if meat is included.

Nothing like a nice thick rear cooked steak, or tender chicken not to mention fish or pork. I eat meat.

something to debate


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## lovexlaugh (Feb 18, 2013)

Stan said:


> We are what we are because of meat. Its the boost that lifted us out of the animal stage in evolution.
> 
> And when you pick a veg you cut off its food supply so therefore eating somthing dead.
> 
> ...


You probably won't get much support in a vegetarian/vegan thread... If someone has a certain belief, its their choice. Would you go on a religion thread badmouthing their beliefs? Not the same thing I know, but both are personal choices we have made for ourselves...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Choice is absolutely what its all about and no one has the right to dictate to anyone else on something like wanting to eat or not eat meat
Since our weekly income still has some connections to livestock production I would certainly not want to see everyone becoming vegetarians!!!
I love nothing more than to see fields full of healthy cattle and sheep - something sadly lacking here in CT - I don't mean they're unhealthy, they just don't appear that often, all I get now is trees, trees and more trees
I will regard veggies as living when they start running around my garden!!!


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

lovexlaugh said:


> You probably won't get much support in a vegetarian/vegan thread... If someone has a certain belief, its their choice. Would you go on a religion thread badmouthing their beliefs? Not the same thing I know, but both are personal choices we have made for ourselves...


 
I don't believe I badmouth anyones point of view or their preferance for food. Just stated a couple of points of fact in our evoloution which included meat. 

I do have friends that are grass eaters with the ocassional tomato, potato, letice and the rest. Nice folks but pasty looking. Oh they are always trying to push their point on being a grass eater.

Then there is the other friend who proudly anounced at my dinner party I'm a grass eater. I told her I would prep more veg for her and her partner, then they sat down at my table and quickly included the roast lamb meat onto her plate with an equal amount of veg. I at times wonder why my vegetarian friends (4) spend so much time trying to convince me the vertue of their belief or is it trying to convince themselves.

I still invite them for dinner and when cooking a roast, or having fish, put enough on the table so they can indulge if they chose.


Perhaps you did not read what I wrote correctly.

My final comment was room for debate.

Now your comment on religion. No I would not go into a church and debate religion or badmouth those that believe. However, when they knock on my door unanounced and push their belief and don't consider my right to believe or not to believe thats another matter for another day. But then, I am polite when asking them to leave and I hold onto the dog cause he likes a little meat with his veg.

I'm having a little fun don't get bitter and twisted. My best friends are vegetarian, well almost, there are little critters made of meat that they do injest when grazing. And they ocassionally allow a meat eater like me to sit on their backs.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I too am a meat eater but it is a fact that a vegetarian diet is healthier for the human body than a diet that includes red meat.

It is also a fact that the land it takes to grow one steer would feed six times as many as the steer would. 

However, if we were all vegetarians there would be hardly any animals!

I do not think Stan was rude in any way. He likes a good debate - as do I.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

Foxhunter said:


> I too am a meat eater but it is a fact that a vegetarian diet is healthier for the human body than a diet that includes red meat.
> 
> It is also a fact that the land it takes to grow one steer would feed six times as many as the steer would.
> 
> ...


 
Foxhunter: We grow our steers big over here Must be all the grass we have.:lol::lol:


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Live and let live I say!!!
Stan - I would think on our way up the evolutionary chain - as close relatives of apes we mostly did survive on vegetation, bugs and whatever else we could lay our primitive paws on - quite likely even each other because based on basic hunting ability we would have been pretty pathetic as we are weaker than most carnivores, cant run as fast, cant climb as well, aren't that large and ill equipped in terms of tooth and nail to defend ourselves or kill prey. 
The Gorilla which is much better equipped and far more powerful than we are is 97% vegetarian.
What gave up the edge and shot us to the top of the ladder was our extraordinary ability to use our brain that then allowed us to make use of our cleverly designed hands to make things to hunt with
Discussion????


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

We're omnivores who developed a brain, built a civilization and now have a choice in what we eat. That means it boils down to personal choice and if we have any food allergies. I bring up allergies because for me being a vegan would be really hard, I have a bad reaction to even small amounts of soy in my food. Other beans give me the same problem but I can handle them better in small amounts (1/2 cup or so is fine) so there goes a huge source of protein. Anyway we have the luxury of making it a personal choice where our ancestors had to eat whatever they go their hands on or starve.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I don't think you can make a blanket statement such as 'x diet is healthier for the human body'. Some people function well as vegetarians, they get enough protein, nutrients, etc. other people would struggle with a similar diet, and are healthier incorporating meat in their meals. I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, I don't think I could handle it, but I absolutely hate the comments some of my vegetarian friends get (pasty, weak, unhealthy, etc.) just as much as I hate 'preachy' vegetarians or vegans.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

Has anyone ever wondered just how much meat protein is sitting on a clump of grass and then gets injested by the veg eaters. Put you vegies under the microscope. You may be surprised. I doubt, if an open mind is kept, that any one of us can lay claim to not eating any meat.

I said earlier I have grass eating friends and respect their view by accommodating them at my table. As I would any one else, and I do believe I have not said grass is not good, but they consume an enormous amount of produce to gain the protein I get from my steak, leg of lamb, roast pork or chicken.

I do get a little techy with those that do eat white meat. pork, chicken, fish, then shout me down for having a steak. All that meat is nourished by nutrients supplied by blood.:shock:


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Stan, I'm really not sure I understand you here. Either you're making a joke or you really do refer to your vegetarian friends as 'grass eaters', which in itself isn't showing very much respect to their views (IMO it's a little offensive).
And what exactly is wrong with having to eat more? I'm just a little confused by your POV.


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## Cane Toad (Dec 20, 2012)

Stan, a lot of your friends seem to be grass eaters, are you sure your not hanging out with just cows or horses? 

My dad is a veggie too (a vegetarian). He showed me this video of the meant industry and how humans treat animals. I Immediately turned vegetarian. It was my choice, I never even used to eat much meat. So for me it is quite easy.

Everyone has their choices and beliefs, I say we leave it at that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> Stan, I'm really not sure I understand you here. Either you're making a joke or you really do refer to your vegetarian friends as 'grass eaters', which in itself isn't showing very much respect to their views (IMO it's a little offensive).
> And what exactly is wrong with having to eat more? I'm just a little confused by your POV.


O/K perhaps my down under sence of humour is not easy to understand.
If you read my post you should have noticed I said. I set my table to include the grass eaters. I do refer to my friends as grass eaters, and I can not print how they refer to me on ocassion.  However, they are long standing friends and we have many discussion on the subject and mostly end up at an impass. Not to mention the times they fall of the wagon and enjoy my leg of lamb, or beef roast, and it does happen. There are no winners and no losers. Generally we are locked with good points to both sides of the discussion.

So folks don't take offence if you don't agree thats o/k we are allowed, and are expected, to disagree. And yes I do, also, refer to my horses and sheep as grass eaters as well. I also refrain from red meat on three days of the week. Or at the worst a greatly reduced intake. But that is to reduce weight I have soup (Veg) and it works I have dropped a few pounds.

Don't stop because you are not sure how to take me, you will not insult me by strong disagreement.

Cheers all.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Oh I did read your post, I just wasn't sure if you were being serious or making a bad joke :wink:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

There is a big difference between the US and the British/Australian and NZ sense of humour. 
The latter have a wider scope and an ability to find humour is most things and do not take themselves so seriously as the Americans. 

I do think that, thanks to the Internet the Americans are learning!


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> Oh I did read your post, I just wasn't sure if you were being serious or making a bad joke :wink:


 
Both, and not a bad joke as such, its the kind of ribbing we give each other when feeling comfotable with the company.

For example. One of my friends had a little surgery on his eyes and not long after being out of hospital I told him a funny joke. It brought a tear to his eye, he swore revenge.

At a party some months later he got his revenge. In front of the lady friend with me, he asked if it was true I was going to propose marriage to her that night. Then he walked away and left me to extract myself from that situation. The worst part was the women was also in on the prank. I spent the evening explaining myself, apologising for my friend and talking my way out from a pending marriage. 

I have had some americian entertainers staying with us at times when doing the circut of Country music venues. It took them a while to get used to us. When on stage backing my wife we would have shots at each other.

I remember one ocassion she was part way through a song I was the backing guitarist and she stoped mid song and announced to the audence its amazing he is not looking at the music. I payed her back. The song had a 4 cord pattern turn around. So when we restarted the song I played it in reverse. When challanged by my wife, I retorted, not only do I not need the music I can play it backwards now start singing dear. 

So Alexischristina I hope this gives you an insight but you were right to question.

Cheers


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Foxhunter said:


> There is a big difference between the US and the British/Australian and NZ sense of humour.
> The latter have a wider scope and an ability to find humour is most things and do not take themselves so seriously as the Americans.
> 
> I do think that, thanks to the Internet the Americans are learning!


Yeah, almost as much as we learned from Benny Hill...such sophisticated humor there that we want to emulate...:think:


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Now Foxhunter no need to get high and mighty on us :wink: I'm sure the Americans got the humour just fine, I must just be one of those closed minded Canadians. 

Humour is all well and good, but I feel like we should get back to the purpose of the thread (a thread for the vegetarian and vegan members). I, myself, am neither BUT I am interested in the lifestyle, and tried it for a little while but living at home it's difficult when everyone else eats meat. I would like to start cutting out pork and beef way back from my diet, I've already cut out 99% of pork and eat beef maybe once a week. And then I'd like to get my family eating meat maybe 3 or 4 times a week, instead of 7. Anyway, a topic for discussion :lol: does anybody know how to cook tofu so it tastes kinda okay (or better yet _good_). My mom's been wanting to try, but every time we do it just doesn't go well, I honestly have no idea what to put it in.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

Faceman said:


> Yeah, almost as much as we learned from Benny Hill...such sophisticated humor there that we want to emulate...:think:


Benny Hill, Thats very old. We in NZ also watched that programme. If you want a laugh. Watch Mrs Browns Boys. Once you get the sense of humour it will have you rolling on the ground. It is funny but typical pome humour.

Cheers and if I could I would have put in a recipe for What was it again Tofo.. I do a great meatless soup the thin kind but filling

Cheers


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## Dreamcatcher5 (May 15, 2012)

I forgot to add: I've been a vegetarian all my life and have never eaten any meat. Like Jaydee, I just can't bring myself to eat something dead. Up until I was about 11, I had the "cute little lamb" syndrome, but as I got older and started my life on a farm, I have come to think differently. As long as the animals were well cared for, I wouldn't mind other people eating them. But me? Never. I don't know how to put this, but when I was younger I had this massive connection to all animals. I broke in a pony when I was about 8, I tamed a timid cow (that was later slaughtered and eaten by the neighbours she belonged to) and was the only one who wasn't scared of patting scary looking dogs (only after the owners permission though) etc etc...I still do have some of that left, but nkw that I'm older, I think differently and have lost a lot of that childish "animal whispering" idea. Mind you, I'm still a childish teenager :lol: but I just think a bit differently now, due to the fact that I now live on a farm and know a lot more about different animals. Still. I will never eat meat, and that's a promise I've made to myself. My whole family are vegetarians too. 

Lol, I have pics to prove my "animal whispering" obsession. I really did think I was one :lol:


I was so cute as a 10 year old :shock:


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## LoveHipHop (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm a vegetarian!


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## aliliz (Dec 24, 2012)

I've been vegetarian for about 7 years. I don't miss meat at all. I've never liked the idea of eating an animal, but I try to be careful not to push my views onto anyone else. For quite a few years, I was the only vegetarian in my household of 4. I don't care if other people eat meat, as long as they don't try to shove meat in my face. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and preferences. 

That said, I just don't think I'd be able to date someone who eats meat, for personal reasons.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Now we're getting past the need to justify why we're vegetarians it would be nice to discuss meal options/ideas
There is no need to be pale and weak - the closest I ever got to looking fragile was when I weighed 114 lb (8 stone) because I was working my socks off on a horse yard every day - it amounts to calling a race jockey delicate!!! 
If you're going to go 'veggie' then you have to do it properly and be sure to eat things that give you enough protein and iron that you might miss from meat (though since some peoples idea of meat is cheap burgers and chicken nuggets they wont benefit from that either!!!)
Big problem with veggie protein is the high calorie ratio to protein
I've never found a way to cook tofu to make it taste nice so cant help there
Soya is probably the most used but can have the texture of rubber - the Linda McCartney range of ready meals is the best quality I've ever bought but I've never seen them in CT at all - not even sure if they are available in the US but they make being a veggie really easy if you don't have a lot of time to cook
Linda McCartney Foods
I prefer Quorn to soya - its a sort of fungus and the way they make it sounds a bit disgusting, some people are allergic to it but the texture is much better and its got a similar protein level to soya but less calories. It is available in the US but nowhere near the range of products we get in the UK
The best veggie burger I've had here was in the Cheesecake factory and was 'nut' based.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

I have never been able to make tofu taste good, so it is usually just added to a meal as a stand in and I quit trying to make it a star ingredient. 
Smothered in something tasty tofu can be edible, just gotta think about something else.

Now I know many of you may not want to make cheeses, but I have learned how to make cheese and it opened some good dining choices. There is a nice, mild, and super easy home cheese you can make that is _far_ more useful than tofu. It can be used just like firm tofu... in that it doesn't melt or get gooey, keeps it shape under heat, and is the pure protein portion of the milk. But, it tastes soooo much better than tofu. 
It is easily flavored to many cuisine styles, palettes, and dishes.
(If anyone is interested I can post how to make it..)

But anyway, that's my answer on how to make tofu taste good. :lol:


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm always interested in vegetarian recipes so I can cook for my vegetarian friends but my going vegetarian....not likely I tried once and then my Dad made steak for dinner...didn't stick too long. But hey at least I gave bit a go.....right?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Lockwood said:


> I have never been able to make tofu taste good, so it is usually just added to a meal as a stand in and I quit trying to make it a star ingredient.
> Smothered in something tasty tofu can be edible, just gotta think about something else.
> 
> Now I know many of you may not want to make cheeses, but I have learned how to make cheese and it opened some good dining choices. There is a nice, mild, and super easy home cheese you can make that is _far_ more useful than tofu. It can be used just like firm tofu... in that it doesn't melt or get gooey, keeps it shape under heat, and is the pure protein portion of the milk. But, it tastes soooo much better than tofu.
> ...


 Please post - not sure about making it at this point in time but I like to keep ideas on file
Is this made from cow or goats milk?


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I too would like the cheese instructions.

I'm not vegetarian. We eat tons and tons of fruits/veggies but never turn down a good steak. Animal welfare does concern me and so I now raise 99% of the meat/eggs we eat. 

It's rather nice to know that Miss Piggy, Wilbur, Porky, Bacon, Elvis Piggsley, Dr Evil Porkchop, Hamm, Wings, Turkey Lurkey, Gobble Gobble, Sir Loin, Georgie and all the rest were fat, happy and very well-loved until we parted ways and they landed in my freezer. 

I have zero qualms about collecting/eating eggs. I'd have thousands of rotten eggs otherwise as in the past two years TWO hens have gone broody. One abandoned her eggs after two weeks when she realized it was grasshopper season and she was missing out and the other is rather halfheartedly sitting on a Polish egg she stole (because laying her own is apparently too much work). Half the time she manages to con another hen into sitting on the egg for her!


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

jaydee said:


> Please post - not sure about making it at this point in time but I like to keep ideas on file
> Is this made from cow or goats milk?


The recipe calls for cow or goat milk, either fresh or store bought.
I've only made it with fresh goat milk. And no, I don't like the goaty-ness that some people like about some goat cheese. (Not all goat cheese is goaty, just depends.)

This cheese can be made with vinegar or lemon juice, I prefer lemon juice, which does not come through in the finished product. Do not use lime juice unless you really like the taste of lime in your cheeses.....ask me how I know this. :wink: 

Queso Blanco/Panir 
4 quarts whole milk
1/4 cup white vinegar
Or
1/4 to 1/2 cup lemon juice (bottled is ok) 

1. Warm milk in large stainless steel pot (not aluminum) over medium heat to 180 degrees F, stirring gently to prevent scorching. Once at 180, reduce heat to low for a few minutes (to allow entire gallon to reach temperature evenly) then remove from heat.

2. Add vinegar (or lemon juice) slowly while stirring. Continue stirring until there is a clear separation and the solids rise to the top. (Will be white and look clumpy or stringy, while the liquids will be somewhat clearish.) If there is not clear separation within 10 minutes, add another 1/8 to 1/4 cup vinegar (or lemon juice) and continue stirring.

3. Pour contents into a cloth lined colander (I have used clean cotton, cheese cloth, and butter muslin, all work fine) and let drain. Gather the corners of the cloth and tie together like a bag and hang for several hours. 
(Hang time depends on the texture you like. See my notes below)

4. Unwrap, flavor as desired, and store in a covered bowl in the fridge.

Easy peasy lemon squeezey....literally. 

Here is a Queso Blanco recipe with pics so you know what the separation looks like.
Queso Blanco

My own notes: 
- I aim to get a temp between 180 to 183. Stay under 185.
- With fresh goat milk the curds (solids) separate very quickly.
- I drain the pot through the colander as noted above, but instead of letting it go down the drain I catch it in another pot. This is the whey portion. It is full of nutrients still and is good for cooking with and baking with. Or, my chickens love it. It also adds nutrients to a compost heap if you are not inclined to use it for cooking and don¡¯t have chickens.
- Draining and hanging- Most recipes call for draining or hanging for a few hours, but I have found my separation is so good with lemon juice and if I drain it more than a few minutes, it becomes dry and crumbly much quicker. 
- Flavors - This cheese will take up just about any flavor you might like in cheese or cheese dishes. As soon as I remove it from the cloth and it is still warm, I drizzle mine with a little olive oil and a sprinkle of salt and work it in. Then I might add sun dried tomatoes, a little garlic and herbs. The flavor is up to you, but olive oil helps incorporate and meld the flavors.


Here is an excerpt from a goat dairy website that tells how to use Panir like tofu -
http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/quesoblanco.htm

"Now that you have this rubbery ball of cheese, what do you do with it? Panir is like tofu: it will take on the flavor of the food it is cooked with. Just cut it into bite-sized cubes and throw it into chili or spaghetti. You can cook the noodles in the leftover whey. You will need to cook them a little longer than usual; test to make sure they're done to your liking. I love pasta cooked in whey. I always save whey just for this purpose. Try serving your chili over vermicelli cooked in whey, topped with a sprinkle of cheese, some sprouts and a dollop of yogurt (goat of course). 

You could use Panir as a meat extender/replacement. Since we are vegetarian, we use a lot of Panir. When you make taco meat, I cut it up in tiny cubes and simmer it with the meat for about an hour. I make "chick'n a la king" using cubes of Panir instead of meat. A quick dinner is mac'n cheese, made from a box, but also add onions, Panir cubes, peas and use buttermilk in place of regular milk. 

You can marinade the Panir and throw it on top of salads or use it in stir-fry. Panir is really in its element when used in curry. Serve the curry over rice cooked with whey instead of water and add a handful of raisins and a clove to the rice as well, to make it really authentic. 
There are endless uses for Panir, so make some of this quick and easy cheese and experiment for yourself."


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I've been vegan for six years now, and vegetarian my entire life (I'm 23). I find parts of it easy and parts of it tricky.

What I find easy is the practical side. I don't get how people have difficulty understanding what I eat... I can eat pretty much anything they eat, I just change it around a bit. Very few people just eat steaks and drink milk, they eat a range of foods. Most places have vegan and vegetarian options to eat. I traveled through Europe and parts of Asia and had no problem being vegan. I think it would be kind of awful to walk through a supermarket and be able to eat everything, there would be no excitement finding a new product, no frequenting specialist stores, no understanding of everything you eat. Sure some "meat eaters" try new things, but many people I meet don't even know what quinoa is, and it's brilliant for everyone! I never feel restricted or as though cooking is difficult or time consuming.

What I am finding increasingly hard is balancing what I think with how I live. As a vegetarian kid everything was black and white, even as a teenager. But as an adult it's harder. 

I choose to eat this way because I like animals, and that will never change. But lately it's harder to value life. Like going to horse sales I know I could save the life of some of them.. but I don't. I bought well bred puppy rather than rescuing one, it's hard seeing one life as significant when there are so many others that are not, and it makes me sad that I now think this way. I own leather things and that bothers me. 

The way I see it is that everyone has a line, we just draw it in different places. Meat eaters will argue that, saying morality isn't subjective but rather objective (as long as what they do is the norm). Many people are happy eating a cow or chicken but would draw the line at a dog, or maybe some kind of protected or endangered animal, like a tiger. And obviously humans. They say it's not same, but it is in the way that we make the personal choice to say this is where it stops being okay, we all draw lines at different places. So people joke about killing vegetables, and such, but I draw my line where I draw it. And it's arbitrary line, I'll be the first to admit it, but we all do it. My line is at a different places to theirs, and it might not make sense to me, but they don't make sense to me either. How can you eat a cow and not a cat? Why is a pig fair game but god forbid someone eat dolphin? Then people will accuse me of saying it's okay to eat dolphins or whales or tigers, but they don't get that to me it's not okay to eat any of it and that was the point all along. 

Where-ever I go people constantly "go" me about it. Whether it's asking ridiculous and insulting questions, making constant comments or just treating me differently. Eating with other people, whether at work or uni or flatmates people will waive meat food at me, or biscuits and go "oh this is so nice" "just have a bite" etc. I don't ever really get upset or comment, normally I just palm it off with a joke but people wouldn't do this to other people. 

If an obese person were on a diet to lose weight it would be grossly inappropriate to come and wave chocolate cake in their face. If a Muslim were at a workplace people would not joke about their religion, wave a crucifix at them and start quoting all the benefits of the bible. In fact that would probably be illegal. 

And then there is the bringing up of current events for innocent "discussion". Which is just a cover for someone preaching to me about their beliefs. Again, if it were religion, or homosexuality or a range of other things people would not bring it up. It would be inappropriate to comment on, and argue with, the way someone lives their life. But not with this. It's plain rude and not something a friend would do. 

It's not that different what I do to religion or anything. It's something I do everyday, and I have done it without fail for over 20 years. I do it when it's easy and when it's hard, and I make life choices based on that. I don't tell others how to live and eat, but if I just sit there people will come and tell me how to live and eat, and expect me to defend my choices. Tell me how it's just unreasonable what I do. Blame me for farmer's suicides (it has happened). I've been called a "crazy vegan" countless times. 

No one gets how I can be into horses, apparently it's "un-vegetarian" keeping and riding horses. It's okay when a meat eating person keeps and rides a horse but when a vegan keeps and rides a horse it's suddenly "cruel" to keep them locked in paddocks, and "abusive" riding them about. I don't get it. But I just do what I do and if people don't like, well I couldn't really care less about them. I'll live my life how I choose and that is that. 

Okay... so end rant. Sorry about that. 

But does anyone else get this?

I live out in the country and everyone is just so different from me in every way and I feel like I am constantly justifying and defending my beliefs from my "friends". Do other people get this?

And I feel I have to justify horse riding to other horse riders! For some reason they think it's immoral for me to ride... I just don't get it :-(


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## JaphyJaphy (Nov 15, 2012)

Foxhunter said:


> It is a fact that a vegetarian diet is healthier for the human body than a diet that includes red meat.


Can you provide reliable evidence for this? I'm not being confrontational, I'm genuinely curious. I find the possibility very interesting, given our evolutionary process, and the way we assimilate nutrients in our bodies. _(What I'm really wondering is if red meat is targeted specifically due to it's saturated fat content? Must research.)_ 

I've done a lot of self-experimentation in regards to different ways of eating, including vegetarian and vegan. Heck, one time I even followed the Food Guide! Due to dairy, beef, gluten and egg allergies, I was a "near vegan" for a couple of years, but once those issues were resolved, I went back to my meat-eating ways. Still don't consume a lot of dairy and I prefer wild meat, but I'm a sucker for fresh eggs! 

I'll admit that I've never really understood what motivates people to become vegan but I'm under the impression that the reasons are morally/ethically-based rather than health-based. I'd love to hear some perspectives. However, I can respect those choices and I am in awe of the creativity of the vegan/vegetarian cooks I know!


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Saskia said:


> I think it would be kind of awful to walk through a supermarket and be able to eat everything, there would be no excitement finding a new product, no frequenting specialist stores, no understanding of everything you eat. Sure some "meat eaters" try new things, but many people I meet don't even know what quinoa is, and it's brilliant for everyone!


Just because we eat meat doesn't mean we ONLY eat meat, nor does it mean we live under a rock. :?

Quinoa isn't exactly a mainstream popular food but it certainly is gaining in popularity and most people I know have tried it or eat it on a regular basis. 

I serve it quite often but I *gasp* cook it in CHICKEN broth... I know... the horror! :wink:

I frequent specialty stores.... most folks I know do. Specialty stores tend to have a good selection of fresh, local produce and inexpensive grains in bulk. 

Who are you to say I have no understanding of what I eat!!?? :evil: Do YOU go outside and personally raise all those veggies you consume? Do YOU plant seeds, watch them grow and then harvest everything yourself? Not only do I raise as much of our produce as possible (from seed to harvest) that we consume but I am standing there as each animal baby is born on our farm. I name our babies, I castrate them if needed, I feed our babies, I give them whatever medicines are needed, I treat any owies, I love them, I bring them treats, I scratch their itchy lil cow horns, I play ball with the baby piggies and when it's time I butcher many of them myself and the others I drive to the butcher and stay with them until they are hanging on the rack. Every animal on our property runs when they hear me calling... one of these days I'm going to break my neck tripping over goats, chickens, piggies and calves as everyone feels the need to crowd around and follow me everywhere. 

Not sure how one could have any more of an understanding of their food and I am *gasp* an EVIL MEAT EATER!! :twisted:


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

> If an obese person were on a diet to lose weight it would be grossly inappropriate to come and wave chocolate cake in their face.


The problem lies in that quote right there. When anybody is doing anything in regards to their food that isn't the 'norm' people feel like they have the right to poke fun at them, insult them, wave food in their faces, etc. I talk to a lot of people who are trying to lose weight and a lot of them find that people are so astounded that an obese person would choose to diet and lose weight that they think it's okay to say things along the lines of 'why eat x, y, and z, it isn't working'. When someone is focused on health, and chooses not to eat fast food (especially if they're not overweight) they get 'you don't need to eat healthy, you're already skinny' or 'you need to eat a hamburger'. The fact is- what someone else is eating is absolutely nobody elses business. If someone decides they want to be vegetarian then awesome, if someone decides to eat meat then okay that's great, nobody should preach THEIR ways at someone else just because a diet that might work for them might not work for _you_ and that includes poking fun, waving food in your face, making rude comments, etc.


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

Saskia said:


> . I think it would be kind of awful to walk through a supermarket and be able to eat everything, there would be no excitement finding a new product, no frequenting specialist stores, no understanding of everything you eat. Sure some "meat eaters" try new things, but many people I meet don't even know what quinoa is, and it's brilliant for everyone!
> :-(


ummmm what? I get excited about new products all the time, in fact it's generally harder to find vegan things and vegetarian things. Just because something has no meet doesn't mean I won't eat it in fact I eat veggies as breakfast most days, I can still go to specialty stores but because my diet isn't as limited by the typical grocery store options I'm not going to out of my way to find one. I understand most things I eat, it's food it's not that complicated. Almost every meat eater I know tries new things at every opportunity and the sames goes for knowing what quinoa is, we sell a quinoa salad at work and it's one of the most popular items.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I clearly said some non-vegetarians try new things and I'm sure many do know what stuff like quinoa was, but I've never met anyone who wasn't vegetarian/vegan that did. They say "what is that?" "why would we eat it, that's weird". It's not just that but other things I thought were main stream, hommus, felafel, even tofu, tapioca, buckwheat, chickpeas, people some in their 30s or 40s, have never tasted or heard of. When I moved to my small university my flatmate looked at my after I said I was vegan and said.. "What? I though that was just a myth" and he fully believed that. I mean supermarkets don't even have these different kind of foods in the "normal" shopping section, you have to go to the area that has the foods for people with allergies, or other problems. 

Maybe you do get excited over a product, but mentioning to my friend I wanted to taste something, like marshmallows, or some kind of biscuit... the answer is "just go buy it". There is no searching, looking, or heaps of excitement when you're local shop has it's first vegan biscuit. I remember having looked for vegan marshmallows for 3+ years and finally finding them in Germany. It was brilliant. 

My friends just go "oh cool new biscuit" and put it in their basket. I'm not saying this is you, or everyone, but in my life and world this is what the people are like. And that's fine for them, but I don't want that. And it's great for people who actually read labels, but again, for example, out of my friends not one of them knew that about 90% of breadcrumbs from the supermarket had fish oil in them. 

I was just trying to share my experience, to see if anyone else shared them, not trying to offend anyone. Which is why I posted in a vegan and vegetarian thread, not anywhere else on this forum.


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

Saskia said:


> I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I clearly said some non-vegetarians try new things and I'm sure many do know what stuff like quinoa was, but I've never met anyone who wasn't vegetarian/vegan that did. They say "what is that?" "why would we eat it, that's weird". It's not just that but other things I thought were main stream, hommus, felafel, even tofu, tapioca, buckwheat, chickpeas, people some in their 30s or 40s, have never tasted or heard of. When I moved to my small university my flatmate looked at my after I said I was vegan and said.. "What? I though that was just a myth" and he fully believed that. I mean supermarkets don't even have these different kind of foods in the "normal" shopping section, you have to go to the area that has the foods for people with allergies, or other problems.
> 
> Maybe you do get excited over a product, but mentioning to my friend I wanted to taste something, like marshmallows, or some kind of biscuit... the answer is "just go buy it". There is no searching, looking, or heaps of excitement when you're local shop has it's first vegan biscuit. I remember having looked for vegan marshmallows for 3+ years and finally finding them in Germany. It was brilliant.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you've met people who have never had hummus? what? how does that even work? I'd die with out my hummus this guy makes ans sells it locally at the summer street market I got roasted garlic chipotle last time, by far my favourite and woman I know showed me how to make some awesome vegan stuff, nice change considering up till then anything vegan I had was bland, just shows you have to know how to vegetarian/vegan.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Saskia said:


> It's not just that but other things I thought were main stream, hommus, felafel, even tofu, tapioca, buckwheat, chickpeas, people some in their 30s or 40s, have never tasted or heard of. When I moved to my small university my flatmate looked at my after I said I was vegan and said.. "What? I though that was just a myth" and he fully believed that. I mean supermarkets don't even have these different kind of foods in the "normal" shopping section, you have to go to the area that has the foods for people with allergies, or other problems.


I dunno where you are shopping but I live in the middle of absolutely nowhere and the itty bitty grocery store, that barely qualifies as anything more than a mini-mart, in town has all of those foods and every last one is most certainly in with all the "normal" foods. :? There's no "weirdo" section.... heck, the grocery store in the actual city that one practically needs a map and a GPS to navigate doesn't have a "weirdo" section either.. all that stuff is mixed in along with everything else. 

Being Vegan/Vegetarian doesn't elevate you to some special level in life... :? I can guarantee there are plenty of Vegan foods out there that YOU haven't heard of or tried! Food choices are generally based on what we ate as a child and got used to. My mother HATES beets and asparagus so I never had either until I was an adult and my Mother-In-Law served them. My mom did all the cooking so she wasn't about to cook what she didn't want to eat.... both perfectly normal foods too! My husband ate next to no veggies because his mother cooked them all to death and served them up with zero seasonings. They tasted AWFUL so he thought that is what veggies taste like... boy was he surprised to learn otherwise.


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## lovexlaugh (Feb 18, 2013)

Saskia said:


> Many people are happy eating a cow or chicken but would draw the line at a dog, or maybe some kind of protected or endangered animal, like a tiger. And obviously humans. They say it's not same, but it is in the way that we make the personal choice to say this is where it stops being okay, we all draw lines at different places. So people joke about killing vegetables, and such, but I draw my line where I draw it. And it's arbitrary line, I'll be the first to admit it, but we all do it. My line is at a different places to theirs, and it might not make sense to me, but they don't make sense to me either. How can you eat a cow and not a cat? Why is a pig fair game but god forbid someone eat dolphin? Then people will accuse me of saying it's okay to eat dolphins or whales or tigers, but they don't get that to me it's not okay to eat any of it and that was the point all along.


Oh my gosh, finally someone who sees it my way! I was reading your posts literally nodding to myself and thinking "yeah! So right!!" I once had a meat-eating friend gasp at the thought that other nations eat *CATS*. I felt like slapping them. BUT YOU EAT COW AND PIG!!! Same with people who happily eat fish, but DOLPHIN?? Where do you draw the line?


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## Devilshire (Feb 22, 2011)

Foxhunter said:


> A question I would like to ask is - why are you vegetarian or vegan?
> 
> Personal interest.



Kind of a long story but I'll have a go at it. I was arguing with a vegan friend of mine and she said "omnivores are so closed minded". Boy was I p*ssed! How dare she!? This really bothered me more than it should have. The more I festered over this the more I began half heartedly admitting to myself that she was right. I'd never really considered the other side of story and wrote off anyone who disagreed with me as an overly sentimental animal rights extremist. And so began my journey! I spent months immersed in every book, website, article, documentary, video and shred of information I could find on agriculture, aquaculture, commercial fishing and animal rights. And for the first time I was open to all spectrums of the debate be they farmers, fishermen, industry or advocate. Given all that I learned I simply couldn't keep eating animal products any longer. And to this day I still obsess over obtaining as much information as possible and I'll listen to anyone who's knowledgeable on the subject, even if their views don't match mine. 


To the person who said vegetarians and vegans need to make sure they get enough protein (sorry I'm not sure who it was)- Believe it or not you can have too much of a good thing. As long as you are eating a sufficient amount of healthy foods protein shouldn't be an issue, it's in just about everything! True, veggies do tend to get slightly less protein than omnis but that's not necessarily a bad thing. We obsess over protein wayyy too much in this country.

Saskia- The book Why We Love Dogs Eat Pigs And Wear Cows by Dr. Melanie Joy thoroughly address peoples resistance to eat one species and eager to devour another. It's very interesting. My personal belief is that a pig is a dog is a bear is a boy and when we suffer, we suffer as equals. Philosophically I see no difference between a dolphin, a dog and a pig. They are all sentient beings with the same capacities to experience pain, fear, joy and sorrow. And in this regard they are no different than us.


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## Devilshire (Feb 22, 2011)

And to anyone interested in the health merits of a vegetarian or vegan diet- I highly recommend the documentary Forks Over Knives as well as the book Whitewash by Joseph Keon. I believe that a whole food plant based diet (which differs slightly from a vegan diet) along with proper exercise is the most healthful lifestyle. However, at this point in time that's still debatable among the scientific community. What we do know for a fact is that a vegetarian or vegan diet is at least as healthy as an omnivorous diet. There's proof enough in all the incredibly healthy vegan athletes as well as the millions of perfectly healthy people on a vegetarian diet. Are there unhealthy "pale, pasty, and sickly" vegetarian and vegans? You bet ya! But there's also a lot of unhealthy, overweight omnivores. You can't judge a diet solely on a few individuals that happen to be apart of it, as there are exceptions to every rule.


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

so recipes I can use my friends guinea pigs for? particularly soups? I love soup.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

^^^^ Do you mean to cook your friends guinea pigs - make some sort of a soup out of them or do you mean what sort of veggie recipes can you try out on your friends???


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I believe she intends to eat said Guinea Pig..... 

I have a Dove in my kitchen (found with broken wing), he's looking tastier by the day!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Delfina said:


> I believe she intends to eat said Guinea Pig.....
> 
> I have a Dove in my kitchen (found with broken wing), he's looking tastier by the day!


 It does kind of read that way!!!
As for the dove - I'm thinking it would be like wood pigeon and going back to my pre-veggie days - not worth the cost of cooking.
When the time comes give it a decent burial :lol:


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> I too am a meat eater but it is a fact that a vegetarian diet is healthier for the human body than a diet *that includes red meat.*


Since we've got a little discussion going, I just want to add that what TYPE of red meat you eat decides if it is healthy or not.

Sure, ir you are buying the bulk pack of 20% fat ground beef, that's going to clog your arteries. But if you are eating grass-fed "organic" beef under 6% fat, how is that any less healthy than chicken or fish?

Yes, true, the vast majority of the population doesn't eat health grass-fed low-fat beef, and that's where the phrase "red meat causes high cholesterol etc etc) comes into play. 

I've seen some people say they are eating healthy by choosing ground turkey over ground beef, when they have no idea that ground turkey can have 20%+ fat in it too. 

For the record: I eat meat. Was raised on a farm so it's always been part of my lifestyle. Bottle-fed the spiker calves and pet them/name them, let them grow for 2 years, and then stick 'em in the freezer. Cycle of life, I guess you could say.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

jaydee said:


> It does kind of read that way!!!
> As for the dove - I'm thinking it would be like wood pigeon and going back to my pre-veggie days - not worth the cost of cooking.
> When the time comes give it a decent burial :lol:


Yeah, but I'm REALLY tired of cleaning his cage! 

Kiddos found said Dove and at the time I figured it must be sick/on death's door to let 2 screaming small kids pick it up so I agreed to putting him in a bird cage in the kitchen. But noooooo... he's apparently destined to live a happy (and very messy) life in my kitchen.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Question for vegans: You eliminate ALL animal products from your life, right? Including leather jackets, leather shoes, etc?

So do you therefore ride using only nylon or synthetic materials in your bridle and saddle?

The thought just occurred to me so I was just curious for your thoughts on that.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Delfina said:


> Yeah, but I'm REALLY tired of cleaning his cage!
> 
> Kiddos found said Dove and at the time I figured it must be sick/on death's door to let 2 screaming small kids pick it up so I agreed to putting him in a bird cage in the kitchen. But noooooo... he's apparently destined to live a happy (and very messy) life in my kitchen.


 Oh I'm with you on that one - been there done it many times over with pigeons, baby birds, a bat, baby mice, baby rats.........mostly they got helped on their way to that great wildlife centre in the sky, one pigeon survived well enough to be freed but the stupid thing came back to visit and got eaten by one of the dogs, a racing pigeon (not sure you have those in the US) survived and was collected by its very grateful owner who rewarded us for taking care of it


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

Delfina said:


> I dunno where you are shopping but I live in the middle of absolutely nowhere and the itty bitty grocery store, that barely qualifies as anything more than a mini-mart, in town has all of those foods and every last one is most certainly in with all the "normal" foods. :? There's no "weirdo" section.... heck, the grocery store in the actual city that one practically needs a map and a GPS to navigate doesn't have a "weirdo" section either.. all that stuff is mixed in along with everything else.
> 
> Being Vegan/Vegetarian doesn't elevate you to some special level in life... :? I can guarantee there are plenty of Vegan foods out there that YOU haven't heard of or tried! Food choices are generally based on what we ate as a child and got used to. My mother HATES beets and asparagus so I never had either until I was an adult and my Mother-In-Law served them. My mom did all the cooking so she wasn't about to cook what she didn't want to eat.... both perfectly normal foods too! My husband ate next to no veggies because his mother cooked them all to death and served them up with zero seasonings. They tasted AWFUL so he thought that is what veggies taste like... boy was he surprised to learn otherwise.


yeah same here I work at grocery store and our dept. has vegan soups and they're with the regular soups, they just say "vegan" on them


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Samstead said:


> yeah same here I work at grocery store and our dept. has vegan soups and they're with the regular soups, they just say "vegan" on them


 So are you actually wanting vegan/vegetarian recipe ideas then?


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

jaydee said:


> So are you actually wanting vegan/vegetarian recipe ideas then?


I would I think it'd be cool to have them if I needed, like I said I have vegetarian friends who I cook with/for so I'd like to be able to give them options plus I love experimenting in the kitchen my cooking style is basically "hmmm I wonder....oh hey that actually worked"


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## Samstead (Dec 13, 2011)

Samstead said:


> yeah same here I work at grocery store and our dept. has vegan soups and they're with the regular soups, they just say "vegan" on them


oh I hate it when people do that, seriously a bit of olive oil some salt, pepper and tomatoes lightly pan fried = YUM or like we have at work root veggies in olive oil and Italian seasoning VEGGIES CAN TASTE GOOD PEOPLE


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

One thing we like is my take on a meal I had in a UK restaurant - sorry but I'm one of these cooks that just throws things in 'to taste' where seasoning concerned so a bit vague on amounts
I buy frozen puff pastry as I don't have time and patience to make it myself (or the skill!!!) 
Line a dish with it and fill with cooked butternut squash that you season with salt, pepper and anything else you like - curry powder works really well - I find the best way to cook the squash is to jab holes in it and microwave it till its soft inside then split & scoop out the 'flesh' - you'll have to figure out the time as it depends on size of the squash
Top with some grated cheese - whatever you like best
Lightly sauté some sliced onions and them stir some marmalade into them - again amount is dependent on taste and quantity 
Spread on top of the cheese
Bake until the pastry is visibly cooked and crisp - I find 380 setting works OK but can vary with size of oven I find
I usually use the small shallow individual dishes and serve in them rather than lift them out
You have to experiment a bit to get to your taste


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I tried ovo-vegan for about 5 years and it wasn't working for my body. The switch had to be gradual but now I eat beef, chicken or pork maybe twice weekly and only 3 oz. I will reach for fish first. Beans didn't give me enough of the right protein so I had little stamina.


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## Devilshire (Feb 22, 2011)

beau159 said:


> Question for vegans: You eliminate ALL animal products from your life, right? Including leather jackets, leather shoes, etc?
> 
> So do you therefore ride using only nylon or synthetic materials in your bridle and saddle?
> 
> The thought just occurred to me so I was just curious for your thoughts on that.



I already had all my tack before going vegan so I don't have to worry about too much. If I absolutely have to buy something that's leather I buy it used.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

A lots of the problem with people today and saturated fats is they do not exercise enough. 
My father who lived to be 92, ate a fried breakfast every morning. Given a chance he would fry everything (even custard!) He never had a touch of arthritis, was never 'old' in his memory or outlook, shopped for several people who could not do it for themselves, delivered newspapers 7 days a week, and until he developed a breaking tumour, never ailed. 
He never learned how to drive (except my mother up the wall!) and either walked or cycled everywhere. Only when in his eighties did he gain any weight even then it was not a lot. Today, people get in their cars to travel less than a mile! 
During WW2 when food was rationed in the UK people were healthier. 1oz of butter a week, 2 eggs and 8 oz of meat per person. Very little sugar so Vegetables filled them up. 
Now sugar is in everything, processed food the norm, many do not know where their food comes from let alone how it is produced. 
I respect someone's right to be a veggie. A vegan I find very hard to understand and those that I have met never look or seem to be healthy. Wan in colour and always I'll with viral infections.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

To me the largest difficulty with a vegan lifestyle is the cost associated. Yes, it's cheap to buy fruit's and vegetables, but other foods are needed in vegan diets and some of those foods can ring up a pretty big price tag, especially if you're trying to feed an entire family. The only vegans I have met who have looked quite ill all the time are those who could not afford to feed their entire family the proper 'specialty' foods to ensure they had all the right nutrients, the right amount of calories, etc. especially considering a vegan diet is (typically) quite low in calories when you look at things on a grand scheme.


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## Devilshire (Feb 22, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> To me the largest difficulty with a vegan lifestyle is the cost associated. Yes, it's cheap to buy fruit's and vegetables, but other foods are needed in vegan diets and some of those foods can ring up a pretty big price tag, especially if you're trying to feed an entire family. The only vegans I have met who have looked quite ill all the time are those who could not afford to feed their entire family the proper 'specialty' foods to ensure they had all the right nutrients, the right amount of calories, etc. especially considering a vegan diet is (typically) quite low in calories when you look at things on a grand scheme.


What do mean exactly? Sure specialty vegan foods are a little bit more expensive but they're more of a want than a need. None of them contain any essential nutrients that you can't get from plants. They actually aren't very healthy so you're better off without them. The only specialty vegan foods I buy are almond milk, earth balance butter and occasionally daiya cheese. The only vitamin that you can't get from plants is B12 but a vegan B12 supplement isn't very expensive. A vegan diet isn't low in calories, there's more than enough vegan food to fill you up.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Even things such as nuts, seeds, 'outside of the norm' grains are pricier than your basic meats, cheeses, butters, etc. 
I've never once met a vegan who was happy eating plants 100% of the time :lol: maybe you're an exception.


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## Stan (Aug 25, 2011)

Devilshire said:


> I already had all my tack before going vegan so I don't have to worry about too much. If I absolutely have to buy something that's leather I buy it used.


If you eliminate all animal products, in that I mean skin meat and so on, not wool as it grows off of the animal then. What is the difference between buying used or new its still hide. Would it not be in keeping with being a vegan that all your horse tack be synthetic. Just wondering.


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

Stan said:


> If you eliminate all animal products, in that I mean skin meat and so on, not wool as it grows off of the animal then. What is the difference between buying used or new its still hide. Would it not be in keeping with being a vegan that all your horse tack be synthetic. Just wondering.


Many vegan's do so for health reasons. Although for those who don't, I imagine the sentiment behind that is by not buying new they are not encouraging the production of new animal products?


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## Devilshire (Feb 22, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> Even things such as nuts, seeds, 'outside of the norm' grains are pricier than your basic meats, cheeses, butters, etc.
> I've never once met a vegan who was happy eating plants 100% of the time :lol: maybe you're an exception.


Not necessarily you can get nuts and seeds at the dollar tree. I've never had any "outside of the norm" grains and I'm perfectly healthy. Vegans don't eat weird specialty things very often. Just standard stuff you can find at any grocery store. I don't eat raw plants 100% of the time but that doesn't mean I need weird specialty foods. Pretty much any omni food can be made vegan.


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## Devilshire (Feb 22, 2011)

alexischristina said:


> Many vegan's do so for health reasons. Although for those who don't, I imagine the sentiment behind that is by not buying new they are not encouraging the production of new animal products?


Exactly. Don't get me wrong I don't enjoy buying these things but lets be honest synthetic tack isn't the best quality and I'm not going to give up riding.


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## aspin231 (Mar 20, 2010)

Having been a vegan for five years and having a serious distaste for improper terminology-
VEGAN means that, as far as possible and practical, no animals products of any kind are used in any facet of your life. There as small lines that people fudge and smudge and figure out themselves, but eating anything from an animal; using leather, wool, beeswax or silk; or using cosmetics or soaps tested on animals or with animal-based ingredients ARE NOT vegan choices. If anyone is still identifying as vegan and doing any of those things, well, I blame them for me being offered fish at restaurants when explaining my dietary choices.
If you are 'vegan' for dietary reasons alone, your diet is actually dubbed vegetarianism, which refers to diet only and excludes the consumption of all animal products. Lacto-/ovo-vegetarian (or the combination of the two) is generally what people think of when they hear 'vegetarian,' as in it means that you will consume dairy or eggs but not meat. There are more terms to include those who only eat chicken, or fish etc, but I won't rattle off the whole list. The point I'm trying to make is that if you choose to label yourself, do it accurately.

One of the things that I'm sure will be asked is why it is okay to keep things such as leather shoes or tack, since this is a horse forum- some people who choose to go vegan will eliminate their life of these items and replace them with suitable alternatives, others will use them until they cannot be used any more so as not to waste them, and others yet may have a different reaction. I personally chose to keep the items that were sentimental to me but replaced the rest. 

Stan asked the difference between buying new versus used leather- the best answer I can come up with (and was once of this train of thought) is that buying used does not directly support the demand for the product, and does not directly contribute to leather being produced. New leather does demand more leather being made, obviously. Whether the leather is made or not already is irrelevant to the latter way of thinking, as not supporting it is sometimes the most to be done.

Also, as a vegan, I do not use any leather tack and have a full tekna brand synthetic saddle/bridle etc set, that is classically designed and coloured and stitched and keeps me happy. Just because I use synthetic doesn't mean I like the look of nylon or non-traditional and cheap tack. There is definitely quality synthetic tack out there to be had, you just have to pay the price for it, same as any quality product. 

Those things being said, I'm going to raise a purely vegan gripe here- when it's said that what anyone eats is personal choice, I agree completely. I also think that if the cow, sheep, dog, chicken, pig or deer were able to communicate with you, their choice would not be to be eaten. When calling it "personal choice" you are insinuating that it affects nobody but yourself, when it reality the choice you're making is effectively taking the life of another sentient being. I mention this only because this is a vegan/vegetarian thread, I am not trying to spark a debate about that particular comment, only to have it known that I take it very offensively and I'm sure others do as well.

I also want to address a comment about vegans not being able to get B12 in their diet, which is entirely true. If I had the book handy I would quote it, but in The China Study, the author/researcher explains how B12 is affected by the toxins now more present in our environment than before industry was around. Please don't quote me on that as it has been at least a year since I've laid eyes on the true quote, however, that does to me help explain how the human body is absolutely able to thrive on a vegan diet, just not in our polluted world, and helped dispel any doubts I had about the diet. I do take everything with a grain of salt, but that book was worth reading if not only for that quote. What this means to me is that I don't mind consuming foods with added B12 or periodically taking a supplement for it, though I have had a total of 1 week supplemetation of B12 in those 5 years, and my bloodwork comes back normally. (As an anecdote I get regular bloodwork for an unrelated autoimmune disease to ensure my levels of inflammation are in check).

Also, anyone claiming that a vegan diet is inherently healthy is very wrong. Chips and cookies are easy to find vegan, even off supermarket shelves, and I could theoretically be vegan and eat only those things. I also bet I'd have a pasty and sickly look to me, as would anyone on a junk diet, vegan or not. I choose to eat a whole foods, nourishing diet that keep me chugging happily along! 

I'm happy to find there are some vegan and vegetarian members on this forum. I do recall that there was a similar thread started a few years back but without the fanfare.

Also, to anyone looking for some intelligent, non-abusive discussion of the vegan diet and lifestyle, there is an awesome UK-based veganforum that provides a lot of interesting insights and differing opinions. Even if you go just to lurk there's lots to be learned.

I look forward to more discussion!


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