# Choosing a Broodmare



## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I've had some trouble bitting horses with a shallow mouth or a short opening. I'd rather have more space to put the bit in without either drawing up the lips or hitting the canines. Most important along with good legs is excellent strong hooves. Also very important is superb movement. Just looking at the parts on a standing horse doesn't mean they all function smoothly or translate into good gaits. You also don't mention the neck and shoulder, which needs to have good balance in relation to the rest of the body.


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## pasomountain (Dec 19, 2018)

When I was researching my peruvian's pedigree online I noticed a little note next to his dam's info indicating she wasn't breeding quality. However, I am sooo glad they bred her anyway to produce my boy because he is such a dream! Yes he has a few faults like kinda big head/ears and funky looking hips but he is 28 yrs old and 100% sound--never sick--good gaits, fun to ride, smart, playful, lots of brio and sweet natured just like he should be. Did the breeders take a chance and breed her to a good stallion to improve the mare? Apparently so but I think it's because she had such good bloodlines--lots of breed "royalty" on both sides of his pedigree. So even though this mare wasn't perfect the breeders knew she had lots of "greats" in her background they were counting on to come through. So my guy may not look perfect to some either but he's pretty close.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

gottatrot said:


> I've had some trouble bitting horses with a shallow mouth or a short opening. I'd rather have more space to put the bit in without either drawing up the lips or hitting the canines. Most important along with good legs is excellent strong hooves. Also very important is superb movement. Just looking at the parts on a standing horse doesn't mean they all function smoothly or translate into good gaits. You also don't mention the neck and shoulder, which needs to have good balance in relation to the rest of the body.


In cutting horses, it's been noted that the shallow mouth, the more intelligence. And vice versa. A deep mouth, lower intelligence. So we look for a nice shallow mouth in a prospect. 
I figured all the rest when I said about conformation.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Zimalia22 said:


> In cutting horses, it's been noted that the shallow mouth, the more intelligence. And vice versa. A deep mouth, lower intelligence. So we look for a nice shallow mouth in a prospect.
> I figured all the rest when I said about conformation.


I found that to be fairly true when I was starting a lot of cow bred colts without ever being told it was desirable. It's just not something that I've been told and repeated. I prefer a shallow mouthed horse. Of course it's not the only factor picking a prospect but it's something I'll gravitate towards.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

If you look at the cutting champions, all are shallow mouthed. 
I can't speak to other breeds, or other disciplines. Cutting is what I know cause it's what I've done.


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

You left out a couple things that I consider super important in a broodmare:

1) personality
2) spook factor- how spooky are they and how hot, excitable are they? 
3) performance- have they proven themselves in any way? 
4) free from genetic diseases, muscle diseases, or heritable defects.
5) free from major lameness issues or arthritis - I want a horse that will stay sound. No navicular, uneven feet, or arthritis at a young age. 
6) size of leg bone- I want thick legs, not fragile legs.


I start looking at conformation after I consider all of the above. You can have a beautiful horse that is worthless for riding because they are too unpredictable, too spooky, too hot, or difficult in personality. I had one horse that would pull every nasty prank- buck, rear or bolt- just because he could. Sure, he had great conformation but not a good temperament. 

I don't care how pretty that horse is, it better have a good brain, or it's useless. I have one horse with beautiful conformation but she has type 2 pssm. I have seen the most ugly conformation on a horse that is as sound as can be. I have seen horses with near perfect conformation that have major arthritis. Conformation isn't all there is, otherwise halter horses would not have such a bad reputation for soundness.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

4horses said:


> You left out a couple things that I consider super important in a broodmare:
> 
> 1) personality
> 2) spook factor- how spooky are they and how hot, excitable are they?
> ...


I thought I had that covered in looking at the pedigree. If you know the pedigree, you know, or should know, how the mare's mind is. Is she trainable? Will she be a willing worker? All that, and what you brought is very important. but, there again, the pedigree should tell you a lot of that. 
To me, looks and brains, are the total package. And the pedigree should tell you that. Lets say you were going to look at a Smart Little Lena mare, by knowing what the pedigree is, you know what the mare should look like, think like, move like, and her dispostion. Everyone has lines they like, and lines they would just as soon stay away from for one reason or another. So by going with what you like, you are more apt to find what you are looking for.

This has been a good thread, Thank you everyone for participating!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

This was my favorite broodmare. The bay standing behind her was another one of her colts. She wasn't the one I made the most money from by selling her offspring but that could be because I kept them all but one and still regret selling him to this day even though he went to a wonderful home.

Foxys Good Gal Quarter Horse (allbreedpedigree.com)


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

I know what you mean. I've had mares that I kept nearly all their daughters. Those kind of mares are hard to replace. Nice mare!


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Thanks! You don't know how bad I wanted a filly out of her but got colts every time. LOL Oh well, they all made wonderful riding geldings.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

JCnGrace said:


> Thanks! You don't know how bad I wanted a filly out of her but got colts every time. LOL Oh well, they all made wonderful riding geldings.


This may sound a bit strange, but it was told to me several years ago by some folks out of Austrailia that I got to know online. 
They claimed if you wanted fillies, service your mares in the mornings. They had a strict policy about that, and said they had not gotten a horse colt in years by doing that. 
So I gave it a go. I can't claim I only got fillies, but I do think I got a few more fillies than horse colts. 
So does it work? Who knows. But it was something fun to think about, and try. 

If you do try it, be sure to come back and let us know what you got!


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## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

See, I don't pay attention to pedigrees at all. I just evaluate what is in front of me. I may look at pictures of sire/dam and grandsire, but I would not know what pedigree throws what temperament. But I'm more interested in cross breeding anyways. I would never breed a quarter horse to a quarter horse- maybe out cross to a thoroughbred. I suppose it depends on what people want in a horse- I don't want a stock horse really. 

I always wanted a smaller version of a warmblood. Would love a pony version of an Andalusian. Or maybe a Lippit Morgan. I bred my best mare to a connemara stallion- should have a nice sport pony foal. I plan on keeping this one. I don't know if I will breed my mare again, but if I did, I would probably outcross.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Zimalia22 said:


> This may sound a bit strange, but it was told to me several years ago by some folks out of Austrailia that I got to know online.
> They claimed if you wanted fillies, service your mares in the mornings. They had a strict policy about that, and said they had not gotten a horse colt in years by doing that.
> So I gave it a go. I can't claim I only got fillies, but I do think I got a few more fillies than horse colts.
> So does it work? Who knows. But it was something fun to think about, and try.
> ...



I quit breeding years ago. Mini and Paint stallions are now geldings and I'm down to 3 mares only one of which I'd consider a foal out of but she's 26 so that's not happening either. LOL She's the paint mare laying down in front of the hay bale in the above picture. It would have been taken in the spring of 2004. Time flies, that all seemed like yesterday but the paint mare (26) and bay gelding (25) are now the oldies on the farm and that foal is 17.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Knowing the pedigree and what they throw tells you about their genetic make up. The more similar the genes ( homozygosity) for a trait you are looking to reproduce the better chance you have of reproducing it. If one or the other (sire/dam) is homozygous then they are considered prepotent and will pass the trait. You know the foal has one copy and should do as you are looking for doing. Breeding that foal becomes at the very least a 50/50 chance of passing so better than no chance but not a guarantee. Make both homozygous you know foal is homozygous so almost guaranteed to at least do what you want reasonbly well as well as pass it on to future generations. Takes some of the crap shoot out of breeding.

Same goes for a cross if you know what each half throws because of homozygosity (often assumed based on foals on the ground) and you look at crosses between what you are looking to cross you can have a very reasonable assurance of getting at least close to what you want. Knowing nothing about either and with no proof on the ground then who knows what may show up unless you are breeding two breeds that are so well established that their traits are set.


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## knightrider (Jun 27, 2014)

@4horses, did you breed in the morning or afternoon? Do you want a colt or a filly?


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

QtrBel said:


> Knowing the pedigree and what they throw tells you about their genetic make up. The more similar the genes ( homozygosity) for a trait you are looking to reproduce the better chance you have of reproducing it. If one or the other (sire/dam) is homozygous then they are considered prepotent and will pass the trait. You know the foal has one copy and should do as you are looking for doing. Breeding that foal becomes at the very least a 50/50 chance of passing so better than no chance but not a guarantee. Make both homozygous you know foal is homozygous so almost guaranteed to at least do what you want reasonbly well as well as pass it on to future generations. Takes some of the crap shoot out of breeding.
> 
> Same goes for a cross if you know what each half throws because of homozygosity (often assumed based on foals on the ground) and you look at crosses between what you are looking to cross you can have a very reasonable assurance of getting at least close to what you want. Knowing nothing about either and with no proof on the ground then who knows what may show up unless you are breeding two breeds that are so well established that their traits are set.


Yours is a more scientific way of saying knowing the pedigree gives you an idea of what the mare/stallion should be. I have had cases of where I went to look at a horse, knew what the pedigree says it should look like, and it didn't. Needless to say, I left the horse right where I found it. I want a horse to look like what it's pedigree says it should look. 
Next I want it to BE what it's pedigree says it should be. Meaning, how it moves, will it hook up to a cow, etc. In cutters, you must have that natural cow, or you just have a nice horse to go ride. Push buttons don't make it in the cutting world.

We all have lines we don't want to see in a pedigree, and I'm no diffferent. They are old, but still a deal breaker. There is one line that throws a propensity for navicular developing. I've seen horses as young as 8 have to be put down because of it. I want nothing to do with it. I'm proud to say I have never raised a horse with navicular and I've raised plenty. 
There is another very old line that while they could cut, you had to make them belive you would just as soon kill them as look at them. There are easier ways and easier horses. Oh they were popular in the halter arena and they were colored. But I never had a desire for a halter horse. 

Anyway, that's just me.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Would you mind sharing the two lines? Interested especially in the navicular but the other as well. If you would rather not put out in the open, PM. 

Putting here opens up a whole new discussion probably best for a different thread.


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