# Does anyone NOT like David Lee Archer?



## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

I feel like the black sheep, and he has almost a cult like following and I just can't understand why. Not only is he a major hypocrite, but also his training techniques are far from safe as well as his skills with being a nice human being far from expected from a professional. 

Anyone else see through his farce?


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## Speed Racer

Never heard of him.


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## Tianimalz

I like his mustache.


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## Speed Racer

Tianimalz said:


> I like his mustache.


:rofl:

Tell me, does Pat Parelli have anything to worry about in the 'stache department? He's been the King of Moustache for a_ very_ long time.


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## Tianimalz

Speed Racer said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Tell me, does Pat Parelli have anything to worry about in the 'stache department? He's been the King of Moustache for a_ very_ long time.


David here has a more old timey look to him, more down and dirty so I give his scraggly face hair some extra points above Sir Pepperoni :lol: 










I don't think anyone can beat _this_ horseman's face hair though

:rofl: :rofl:


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## Speed Racer

True, true! Gandalf has_ everyone_ beat for facial hair. Plus, he's a wizard. :wink:

Honestly, there seems to be another new NH Guru come onto the scene every time I turn around. I don't even _try_ to keep track of all of them anymore. 

If he's an asshat, don't train with him. If you don't like his YouBoob videos, don't watch 'em. I've been able to avoid a_ lot _of stress that way.


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## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

Well... I found one comment on youtube that agrees with me!






(for those who don't know him here's his most popular video. Not ropes everywhere , dogs chasing scared horse etc. Absolutely awful trainer who has fees of 800 a month! )



Mr. DLA, I just had to watch quite a few of your vids to confirm what I thought. My opinion is that there are as﻿ many training methods as horse trainers around. I will tell you that I think you know a lot but your way of criticizing those who don't think like you and constantly trying to run them down in all your vids makes you look frustrated and stuck up. Just concentrate on your teaching + check out Monty Roberts, even you can still learn from top notch horse people.

Robert Nesta Marley 4 months ago 



 yes there is now dont believe in join up because in reality it is tiring a horse... Like his mustang thing that was aired a few years ago that mustang was ran for two days pretty much none stop before he was caught up.. Also maybe you should his aunts book might﻿ give you some insight.


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## Muppetgirl

Ooooooooh that guy! Haha I've seen some of his YouTube vids before. Yes he doesn't present very professionally, I didn't really pay too much attention to his vids as I was distracted by the dog and the ropes......perhaps it's smoke and mirrors? Like a magician, let's distract the audience enough that they don't actually see the trick? Haha!


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## TKButtermilk

I know him personally, have watched him work and my mom kinda dated him for a while. I think you guys need to remember just how many horses he had to work with everyday, and the situations he is handled. That said I DO however think that he tends to not take the time to personalize his technique for each horse. Again, this is likely do to the sheer volume of horses he has come through the rescue. He is a very nice man, although gruff. Yeah, he's a cowboy so he doesn't wear a helmet, chest protector, etc (not saying its okay, just sayin). I think he just does what he needs to do to get things done, and I know a lot of horses and people whose lives he has changed. I think like with any trainer (especially over the Internet...) you need to take what you can use and leave the rest. You may have seen a video he has of a bay filly, idk if her name was mentioned but it's Coco. In the video he ties her face to her tail (not something I agree with..but I think it could be judged REALLY bad if you don't know the filly.) That filly was actually ours, the guy whose ranch we lived at had bred for her and she is SERIOUSLY missing a nut or two. She has had everything done right, seen many trainers and she's absolutely bat poop crazy. She is one of those horses that just needs to be euthanized because she's beyond rotten. At that point David was trying anything and everything to get through to her and save her life. Those are the kinds of horses he deals with. Anyways, not trying to change anyone's mind and I'm really not for or against him. I have major respect and appreciation for what he does for the horses be can, but don't necessarily agree or disagree with all of his training methods. 

On a side note, his mustache is totally cool! He's actually a very small, dare I say petite person haha.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

Thanks for your input. I'm not for him for the simple reason I too agree with what you see on video doesn't show it all. When I first met him I knew he was an old school cowboy and admired his work with the rescues. I use natural horsemanship but I don't judge him because of only his training styles but people skills as well. As soon as he got in my face over nothing simply because he was having a bad day every ounce of respect I had was gone. I don't know what yelling in someones face has to do with being "true to your horse" but I just find it a two faced move.


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## miarabianversatility

.............

I lost brain cells watching that. 

"I have his head so I have control" Guess what you and all your NH peeps all claim that. Guess what these are 1000lbs animals with their own brains that if they really want to you will not stop them.

All these NH trainers IMO are control freaks. People need to stop thinking they are so superior. Lets take away all the "tools" us humans use who will win?

UGH!

There is nothing natural about horsemanship!


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## Speed Racer

Socalgirl said:


> As soon as he got in my face over nothing simply because he was having a bad day every ounce of respect I had was gone. I don't know what yelling in someones face has to do with being "true to your horse" but I just find it a two faced move.


Oh, now I see. You have a PERSONAL grudge against him because he's not all butterfly farts and rainbows when talking to people. 

He's human and is going to make mistakes, especially if he's having a bad day. Just like you, me, and everyone else on the planet.

Did you _really_ come here to trash him just because you're having a hissy fit because he was 'mean to you'?


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## TKButtermilk

Yeah, I think quite a few of his videos shouldn't be posted purely because you can't give the watcher a real understanding of what's going on with the horse, and in turn either give the watcher a really BAD idea cause it's not the situation they think it is, or makes him look "cruel" to people who don't agree. Oh well, I don't think he cares what anyone thinks haha. He is VERY gruff though, and I totally understand not liking him if he got in our face and was a jerk. He isn't a people person by any means, and im gonna stop with that so as not I disclose anything that is too personal about him, he deserves some privacy. 

I was totally in love (and so excited to see!!!) Craig Cameron at equine affaire a few years ago. HOLY POO idk if he was just having a bad day but when the foot he har ended up being something entirely different than what he thought he was (stud colt, already had bad habits, blah blah) he dead ABUSED that horse to try and make him fit the mold he wanted him to so he could still do the demo that was "scheduled". When he realized the horse was NOT what he thought he was he should've changed the lesson so that it was something good for all of us. I'm sure every good horse person in the stands would've been happy to see him teach the colt to give to pressure and respect rather than watch him push him to the brink of breaking and smash his spirit just to show whatever it was he was supposed to, I dont even remember now, it was a train wreck. Anyways, the point of that is although I will never support Craig Cameron again, I'm sure it was just a bad day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TKButtermilk

Colt he had* iPhone fail! I appoligize for the rambling and terribly hard to read-ness
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

I both dislike his methods and him in personal life. In fact I think that makes me just about clear of any bias. I just don't think someone like him should have so many fans when he clearly doesn't know as much as he claims.


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## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

miarabianversatility said:


> .............
> 
> I lost brain cells watching that.
> 
> "I have his head so I have control" Guess what you and all your NH peeps all claim that. Guess what these are 1000lbs animals with their own brains that if they really want to you will not stop them.
> 
> All these NH trainers IMO are control freaks. People need to stop thinking they are so superior. Lets take away all the "tools" us humans use who will win?
> 
> UGH!
> 
> There is nothing natural about horsemanship!


I don't find it natural horsemanship at all. It's old school cowboy, but yes in the end horses have the power. No one can MAKE a horse do anything. That's why I laugh at PETA followers who say riding a horse in general is abuse... If my horse didnt want me on his back I'd never be able to mount up.


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## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

Speed Racer said:


> Oh, now I see. You have a PERSONAL grudge against him because he's not all butterfly farts and rainbows when talking to people.
> 
> He's human and is going to make mistakes, especially if he's having a bad day. Just like you, me, and everyone else on the planet.
> 
> Did you _really_ come here to trash him just because you're having a hissy fit because he was 'mean to you'?


Also I think people should be warned against hiring him. I was not a client of his just a human being that happened to be around. If you want to follow him why don't you just leave this thread?


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## miarabianversatility

Socalgirl said:


> I don't find it natural horsemanship at all. It's old school cowboy, but yes in the end horses have the power. No one can MAKE a horse do anything. That's why I laugh at PETA followers who say riding a horse in general is abuse... If my horse didnt want me on his back I'd never be able to mount up.


PETA- People Eating Tasty Animals...lol.

Eh after some more reading on him its almost like a mix of old school and NH.

I've known some awesome old schoolers where the horse is their living and care was taken, then others that played up to "breaking" a horse. And trust me I take issue with methods used by them.

There is stuff NH preach that I agree with but mainly because its just flat out common sense. But I find alot of it hocus pocus and circus tricks. My dog hates circus tricks I sure wont make my horse do them.

Its obviously to each there own. But the true key of horsemanship is customizing to each individual horse. Not using these broad brush strokes by the current "flavor of the month". I just look at standardized testing... It can be just right, to hard, to easy, or just struggle in certain areas. You can not excel using broad brush strokes.


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## candacemaelani

I personally know David from volunteering at FalconRidge he's an old school, no drama, no bs kinda cowboy. With David theres no fluff and he doesnt tell you what you want to hear. Ive seen him be moody and if he doesnt like you he doesnt like you. Now that I've addressesd the human "poor me" waaaaa factor lets talk horses.David has taught me a tremendous amount just from watching his videos. I have a wild pony I've adopted and using his techniques sh'es now a great pony. Dont take it personal, get off your soap box and stop being so butt hurt. :0


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## Northern

How bad of a day are you allowed to have, either in your vents on innocent bystanders or horses? 

Dumping on someone IS immature at best & hurtful & damaging (especially to a horse) at worst. So let's not make it the new norm.

Craig Cameron's "bad day": a true horseman would stop WAAAY before he was so off-track with a horse that he wrecked the horse! Is there any possibility that you didn't see things clearly? Yikes. 

As to DLA's horsemanship: From the several vids I've watched of David Lee, I see that he's highly skilled/gets the job done with horses. I don't recall cruelty, & doubt that he is, because of his high success rate.


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## TBforever

u know people pay alot of money to go to trainers..and yet he does it free online..

i think abit of gratitude is needed that he is WILLINGLY putting his training online for free


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## xxxxxxxxSocalgirl

High success rate my ***. Half the horses he trains get returned within a few months of repeated issues of the problem he "fixes". This is what I meant when I made this post. He has too many brain washed followers who worship him and ask questions later.Why comment on a post that you know you're not in agreement with? That's called attention seeking. Like a pro choice person commenting on a pro life page. Have a nice day but I feel sorry for your horse if you use any of that idiot's pain induced methods




Northern said:


> How bad of a day are you allowed to have, either in your vents on innocent bystanders or horses?
> 
> Dumping on someone IS immature at best & hurtful & damaging (especially to a horse) at worst. So let's not make it the new norm.
> 
> Craig Cameron's "bad day": a true horseman would stop WAAAY before he was so off-track with a horse that he wrecked the horse! Is there any possibility that you didn't see things clearly? Yikes.
> 
> As to DLA's horsemanship: From the several vids I've watched of David Lee, I see that he's highly skilled/gets the job done with horses. I don't recall cruelty, & doubt that he is, because of his high success rate.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rookie

I have never heard of this guy. I watched part of the video but the sound was wonky so I stopped. If something annoys you than stop doing it/watching it. There is no one saying that you HAVE to train this way. I have a friend who is a huge Julie Goodnight fan. I am not. It does not make my friends horse any better or worse trained than mine. I think my horse is awesome, but its my horse (I am awesome so my horse is awesome by association, or maybe my horse is awesome and I am awesome by association  ). Telling my friend or a stranger on line that they are a brown nose and kiss %^& because they have a different opinion than me or because they have defended their opinion or family friend is rude. With all due respect, you seem like you need to chill out. You don't like this guy fine but its okay if other people like him. 

There are a portion of horses that revert back to old behavior prior to training because owners don't make the changes necessary to maintain a behavior. A high rate of relapse indicates that he is training the horses but not necessarily the people, which is pretty common. I am not trying to defend him, I honestly don't know enough to do so, I am just saying that relapse is common.


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## Palomine

Put me down on do NOT like...

The video of grey horse that is acting like an idiot?

He takes way to many chances, allows her in too close, and from what I see of his other videos? Not impressed.

He may work with a lot of horses and that is fine but when he is putting his methods out there, for new owners to try, without thinking that these people have no clue as to how to read a horse, nor what a safe distance is?

Then in my book? He is an idiot.


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## Northern

Socalgirl said:


> High success rate my ***. Half the horses he trains get returned within a few months of repeated issues of the problem he "fixes". This is what I meant when I made this post. He has too many brain washed followers who worship him and ask questions later. Why comment on a post that you know you're not in agreement with. That's called attention seeking. Like a pro choice person commenting on a pro life page. Have a nice day and I feel sorry for your horse if you use any of that idiots pain induced methods._e_


Your post, shows your immaturity. I have _several_ questions for him; I also see that he's highly skilled. Clue: "Highly skilled' doesn't mean "perfect".

Plus, you demand agreement here? Wow. Clue: disagreement with _you _doesn't equate with attention-seeking! 

Clue: a trainer can't be expected to keep a horse "fixed" once it's gone back to the owner! You're blaming DLA for this is absurd.

eta: Posted this at same time as rookie, who explained same thing; thanks, rookie.


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## TBforever

ppl post alot here on training..not everyone agrees with it, does this make people on this forum idiots?

different training techniques work different for all horses..

if people find these trainers idiots then find a bloody trainer in real life and stop searching the internet sites..go pay for a big high top coach, instead of going freebies


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## tinyliny

please excuse a brief closure.

ETA:

please leave any personal insults out of your discussion. The thread is titled: Does anyone NOT like DLA? and obviously, some don't. makes for an interesting discussion, but please don't dis each other for any preference in trainers.


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## KBA6

I just found this thread, so I know I am a little late to the discussion! BUT, I will throw in there that one thing I do like about watching his videos is that the horses seem pretty "real", meaning that you can tell they are rescues and horses that have not been handled before. 

Since I just rescued a horse, I've been researching evaluating and starting new horses, and I've been unimpressed with a lot of "commercial" trainers with great production value working with horses that seem like they have already been started. 

I do wish the production was better on his videos though. Sometimes I can't hear or understand him. 

Just a drop in the bucket - no personal opinion, just an objective bystander.


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## dressagebelle

I personally sent a horse to FalconRidge, as she was too much for me to handle at the time, and we had decided to take on another horse from the same place that also needed a lot of help. He explained things in a way that helped me understand what exactly was going through the horse's head, but at the same time, he was pretty blunt, doesn't have the best people skills, but then again when training a horse that isn't always necessary. He was able to get through to the horse when no one else could, and that shows me that he does really know his stuff. Now on the flip side, he doesn't tailor his training to each individual horse, and he is pretty down on any other training methods, especially "natural horsemanship", and that really turns me off. If you are a trainer, you need to know that every horse is different, there isn't one training method that's perfect for every horse you will ever meet. FalconRidge did have a pretty high success rate at adopting out horses, and I'm sure that some of that is due to DLA himself, and not just the horses. I didn't like that if you wanted to volunteer at falonridge, and "train" the horses, you had to take lessons with David, you had to do everything his way, and while I'm sure it helped keep horses from getting confused, at the same time, I as a volunteer just want to volunteer my time, help a few horses, not get a lesson in how to train horses. That coming from me having almost 20 years experience riding, showing and training myself. With any trainer, they have strong points and weak points, and some are just more annoying than others.


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## Paradise

I've seen a few of his videos. I know little about him or his rate of success but it seems to me that he is an excellent horseman.

People who work with troubled, end of the line, dangerous horses have to do a lot of things that don't look nice and aren't pretty to see. He does what needs to be done.

I applaud David for putting himself out there but at the same time I dont know if he's 'commercial' enough to sway over a lot of the public, if that makes sense. I also don't think he gives a rat's behind but..Good trainer he might be, but from what I've seen his videos don't explain enough to be able to be applied by a beginner horseowner. 

I've been raised around enough grumpy, miserable old men that all I can do is laugh. He's not a people person and some people aren't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jmike

he has a lot more skills than i do, that is for sure

so, for me, it is worth watching and paying attention


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## boots

He may not have the flash and dash of what some expect from a clinician, but I'd probably ride a horse he's handled. And if he came looking for a job, I'd probably hire him.


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## PaintHorseLoverxx

This SoCal poster is just bitter that DLA didn't kiss up to her. I know him personally too. He has a huge heart and helps horses and owners more than he would ever think to promote.


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## Incitatus32

I don't think he's that bad honestly. I agreed with him a lot more than I do with other youtube trainers. Is there room for improvement, of course. Name one trainer that DOESN'T need to improve in some way. Is he 100% correct? No, I disagreed with a few things. But here's what I like about him (and I didn't know him till about fifteen minuets ago when I did the research lol): he's very upfront and has a black and white training mentality. I also like the fact that he associates training with common sense and puts blame on the people, not the horse. 

I guess I may be a bit biased because he's like the trainers I train under. It's almost scary (only some are women! :lol. As for the dog, I've never been in a training stable where there wasn't a dog running in, under, around the training horses. And the amount of ropes? I was taught that the more your horse had flung on him, drug and stepped on the better the horse became. 

I can see why people would dislike him but I have to admit he's pretty likable for someone like me who grew up around his type of mentality and enjoys it.

And I saw abuse mentioned somewhere? I don't see any abuse in these horses from him. He might get a bit ruff but there's always a reason and it's never in malice. Horse training's not all rainbows and butterflies, sometimes things do have to get a bit mean (or rough) to get a point across.


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## Peter Kindfield

My daughter's horse has been at DLA TN range for about 1 month and a half. All three of us (horse, daughter and me) really like David a lot! And I think he is an amazing trainer that has dome amazing things with our orphan filly!


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## Palomine

Don't like him, don't like too many from what I see of them.


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## Horselady77

I have a rather sensitive horse that has been rehabbed since he tried his style of training to start him ....poor horse was a mess .


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## EquineBovine

Horse training in a nutshell - One size does not fit all


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## Golden Horse

EquineBovine said:


> Horse training in a nutshell - One size does not fit all


If there was a Quote of the Day Thread, then this would be on it :wink:


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## Smilie

never heard of him. 
Might have to google, just out of curiosity


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## Saddlebag

Archer rehabs horses and sometimes owners. He puts in time at a rescue to help spoiled horses get rehomed. He is skillful. Some of his audio quality isn't good which can be frustrating. He can be blunt at times which I give him credit for not being afraid to say it.


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## Saddlebag

SoCalGirl, if Archer blew up at you I suspect you did something or your attitude really pi**ed him off. If horses come back to the rescue it's because people didn't follow thro with his recommendations. This is a big issue with women/girls. "I rescued poor Precious so I have to treat him special" Horse senses the lack of leadership and takes over. I've been around horses long enough to see the change in the girls/women from considering a horse as livestock (rarely have any issues) to Precious and wanting the horse to love them. No one buys a horse any more, they "rescue" it. I'm on Archer's side and have a lot of respect for him.


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## TCofOk

Personally, I don't like his technics at all. He preaches for example about not pestering a horse, yet, as I have sat and watched at least 30 of his videos, he pesters a horse all the time. An example is when he's working on the kicking paint stud. Yes! it takes what he was doing for example in the 1st video with pestering his back legs until the horse stops. But when the horse stopped, he didn't pause nearly long enough to give the horse time enough to even think about the release of pressure before he went right back at it again. Then in video 2 and 3, when the horse would take a step back when trying to back the horse, he didn't release the pressure allowing the horse to realize "HEY! If I back up he'll stop!" No, he just stayed on the horse agitating it, until finally, it reared up! He knew it was going to happen because he knows he was agitating the horse wanting him to do it. Now I'm not saying I'm a horse trainer by any stretch of the word, but I've owned two horses (one for 25 years and the other is its colt, now a 12-year-old guiding. Got the mare right after she was weaned off her mother) and I've both worked with them myself and with other trainers I've taken them to. Basically, we all have more used a little of Clinton Anderson's methods combined with some or Parelli horsemanship technics. But I think we all know the pressure and release technique far better than David Lee Archer shows. What Archer does prove, is that if you pester a horse long enough, it will learn. Maybe not well for the horse or for the human, but since horses are really incredibly smart, they'll either learn or end up hurting someone. Which is always the human's fault if they do IMO. Yes, I've been kicked at from my horses, never hit, but I sure know how hard they can kick if you don't get them liking and respecting you. No doubt all horses when around humans need teaching. But there are better ways, than what I've seen from the Archer videos.


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## Boo Walker

Note: this thread is several years old


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## Foxhunter

xxxxxxxxSocalgirl said:


> (for those who don't know him here's his most popular video. Not ropes everywhere , dogs chasing scared horse etc. Absolutely awful trainer who has fees of 800 a month! .


Just to comment on the remark. 

He had two ropes, each used for a different purpose. Yes the ends were hanging down but if you are using the rope as an aid, which he was with the one around the back end, having the loose in your hand can make it difficult to do what you need to. 

The dog wasn't chasing the horse it was just herding it. Again I see nothing wrong with that. My BC would do the same thing with the horses being lunged. The great thing about her was I could send her in either direction so as well as being parallel to the horse she would also go round meeting them head on. 
Believe it or not she was calming to most horses. 

That horse was not afraid. He was just bolshy wanting his own way. He had learned how to intimidate humans and when one didn't take it, he became resentful. 

I am not saying David Archer is good or bad, that is the only video I have seen of his.


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