# Blue Roan Going Grey?



## FoundationlovinQH (Mar 19, 2016)

Last fall when first rescued


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Dam must have been grey, as grey does not skip generations, nor does it hide. In order for a horse to be grey, one of its immediate parents MUST be grey.

The filly pictured looks to be blue roan with sun-bleaching.


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## FoundationlovinQH (Mar 19, 2016)

I also didn't know if maybe Sire started out blue roan and went grey because his dam was grey.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I can only see one picture (and it is in the first post). From that picture I would say a grey. Look at the grey hairs on her cheeks, coming into the mane and right above the hooves. 

If the sire was blue roan and later greyed out due to his grey dam or was misregistered as the wrong color or was simply misidentified (all of which are possibilities). Also, if you don't know the color of the dam, the dam herself could have been grey to pass the gene along ;-)


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## FoundationlovinQH (Mar 19, 2016)

See if the second picture will show now?  And I have Dam's name but cannot get any info on her online as I am not a member of APHA but she was apparently not grey. And that is mud on her face, I am sorry, I was trying to get to her and brush her but she is very "I do things when I am ready" so we slowed down for the day and just ended with haltering. I will try to get better photos next week when I go back out!

As for him being mis registered, I was heavily wondering about that since her half sister went grey when her dam was not grey.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

FoundationlovinQH said:


> See if the second picture will show now?  And I have Dam's name but cannot get any info on her online as I am not a member of APHA but she was apparently not grey. And that is mud on her face, I am sorry, I was trying to get to her and brush her but she is very "I do things when I am ready" so we slowed down for the day and just ended with haltering. I will try to get better photos next week when I go back out!
> 
> As for him being mis registered, I was heavily wondering about that since her half sister went grey when her dam was not grey.


Is this an older picture? Every part of her is darker (especially her barrel area) when compared to the first picture posted. I didn't see mud on her face, I saw a peppering of white hairs all over her face but very noticeable on her cheeks and even her ears. Lots of white hairs in her mane as well. 

If her paternal half sister is out of a mare that isn't grey but the filly is, then the "blue roan" sire is grey. Whether or not he is a blue roan that also got grey and went grey less noticeably due to the roaning or if he was a black with no roan but they white hairs from the grey gene were mistaken as roan, I can only guess at without seeing pictures of him as a foal and through growing stages. There are many greys who are identified as "blue roan" but are not roan at all just a black horse turning the hairs to white over time. 

You could always pull hairs and get them tested for $25 to check for grey if you want to know for certain what color she will be as an adult ;-)


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## FoundationlovinQH (Mar 19, 2016)

I see what you mean on the cheeks! I was refering to around her eyes where it is brown and dusty.

The picture with a pink halter is from last fall when she was first rescued, I can't find any pictures on Dam or Sire anywhere only knowing that they are registered. I just met this filly last week so I cannot provide a ton of information on her.

Oh! Where can I get her tested at as that would solve my curiosity all together!


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## FoundationlovinQH (Mar 19, 2016)

You were absolutely right that her Sire was registered wrong! I just recieved pictures of both Sire and Dam!
Sire:



Dam:


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Horses are registered as to how they appear at time of registration
THus, if the sire greyed out later, even if registered in the beginning as a roan, or even as his original base color, he carried the greying gene, and any of his offspring have a 50 50 percent of greying
Both roan and grey, are not colors in themselves, but color modifying genes, that work on that base color, at various rates
In some cases, it can take years for a horse to grey completely, to white, while at other times that de pigmentation is rapid


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## FoundationlovinQH (Mar 19, 2016)

I know how roan and grey work, that was never the question. It was a matter of wether the filly would grey not knowing color of parents at the time I started searching and trying to find out as she is a rescue with a half sister that was very much a grey by the age the filly is currently. Though with most that will grey they will be born a much more darker and mature color with goggles or eyelashes and such so it would be easier to identify yet this filly does not have goggles and her tail and mane look to bleach more then anything with white hairs mixed in and roaning spreading on the cheek.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Here is a good article on both the roan and grey gene, different expression rates, and the effect if a horse inherits both the roan and the greying gene.
The horse will look like a roan for the first few years of his life, and like a grey after that for the est of his life


GRAY VS ROAN HORSES: How to tell the difference between gray and roan


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

yes, often one can tell if a foal inherited the greying gene from a parent that carries it, when born, having that greying already started around the eye
However, the rate of expression of the greying gene can vary greatly, with some horses , like my mare Charlie, reaching maximum expression by the time they are yearlings (white), while others have no significant greying for a few years
If that filly inherited both the roaning gene and the greying gene, you are going to see an influence by both modifiers, thus a mixed picture.
Just looking at a horse, not knowing the color of the parents, it can be very difficult at time to tell roaning from greying
Yes, grey horses are born whatever base coat color they inherit, thus can be born any color.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

So, to get the info correct
The sire is registered as a roan, but had a grey dam, thus that sire can very well be grey by now, and thus can pass both the greying and roaning gene on to his offspring.
Papers are often not up dated. I myself have been quilty of that, having an Appaloosa born solid colored, or with a pattern, that roans ovet time, thus no longer matches color description of the papers
A horse that carries both the roaning and greying gene, can often look like a roan for the first few years, but then grey, and look grey for the rest of that horse's life
It is thus not strange that the sire was registered as a roan, but then greyed
You don't always have 'goggles' , when a horse has the greying gene The face on a roan horse stays darker, so if that picture is of the horse in question, I would think she has the greying gene


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Okay, pictures are becoming confusing, and the filly in question has a dark head? If so, she might not have inherited the greying gene, just the roaning


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Lack of goggles does not mean the horse isn't grey. 

My colt never had goggles or even a white eyelash when he was born, but is definitely grey. The first hint of grey on him was actually the white hair in his tail (that and that he wasn't born with light mealy areas on his legs......greys are born looking more like an adult color).

Neither picture I see looks grey to me, but that doesn't mean she (they?) aren't. :shrug:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

I know you said the tip of her tail is either bleached or grey. What about the hair near the tail bone? On my grey, the roots were obviously grey, when you split the hair and looked near the tail bone. 

I found some pictures of my colt at age 9 months. If your filly is going grey, I would think she should have some significant white on her face (not necessarily just around the eyes) if she has that much white hair on her body.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Smilie said:


> Okay, pictures are becoming confusing, and the filly in question has a dark head? If so, she might not have inherited the greying gene, just the roaning


The picture in the first post is most recent, the second picture that shows a little later is of the filly last fall when her face was still dark colored. 

Then there is a post that shows her sire and dam later on the first page, the sire is very grey (doesn't even appear to have been roan going grey unless he was a minimally expressed roan).


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Was that how the sire appeared when he was registered?
Roaning can sometimes by hard to tell from greying, unless, of course, one know the genetics of the parents, and thus if no gray, can assume the coat white hairs are due to rhe roaning gene
That roan gene , also had to come from one of the parents, and since the dam does not appear to have roaned, very possible the sire carried both the roan and the greying gene, able to pass either one,, or both to any offspring
Several distinguishing factors are that a roan with keep a dark face, while a greying horse will have that face get lighter, along with the rest of the horse.
Roans also darken and lighten at times , with the seasons, while greying is always progressive


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

subbing <3


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Smilie said:


> Was that how the sire appeared when he was registered?
> Roaning can sometimes by hard to tell from greying, unless, of course, one know the genetics of the parents, and thus if no gray, can assume the coat white hairs are due to rhe roaning gene
> That roan gene , also had to come from one of the parents, and since the dam does not appear to have roaned, very possible the sire carried both the roan and the greying gene, able to pass either one,, or both to any offspring
> Several distinguishing factors are that a roan with keep a dark face, while a greying horse will have that face get lighter, along with the rest of the horse.
> Roans also darken and lighten at times , with the seasons, while greying is always progressive


The sire is grey (maybe also roan) as he has another daughter with full grey goggles and greying out very noticeably and that grey daughter is out of a mare who is not grey. 

As for the filly that the OP is wondering about has a face with a la amount of white hairs that are recent additions. Beyond that, the filly also has the white hairs all over the ears and in the mane (near the roots)


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## haviris (Sep 16, 2009)

Based on that pic I'm going with blue roan. Dark face and points, roaned body. Time will tell, but at this point that is what I'm seeing.


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