# Chestnut? (confo crit if you want)



## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

I might be looking to get this mare and was wondering what color she was. On one sales ad she's listed as buckskin, the others "Unknown". Her sire is definitely a chestnut and on all-breed her dam is listed as a red dun (Jamars Sweet Bo Quarter Horse). Some people on FB were calling her a dun, could she be? Or is she just a super light chestnut? I don't see any leg barring or dorsal stripe. Thoughts?

Also, if anyone wants to critique her confo go right ahead.








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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

EliRose said:


> I might be looking to get this mare and was wondering what color she was. On one sales ad she's listed as buckskin, the others "Unknown". Her sire is definitely a chestnut and on all-breed her dam is listed as a red dun (Jamars Sweet Bo Quarter Horse). Some people on FB were calling her a dun, could she be? Or is she just a super light chestnut? I don't see any leg barring or dorsal stripe. Thoughts?
> 
> Also, if anyone wants to critique her confo go right ahead.
> 
> ...


She's from a line of Champagnes, and I would bet that is what she is.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

does she have a dorsal stripe? if so then I would say a shade of red dun.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

riddlemethis said:


> She's from a line of Champagnes, and I would bet that is what she is.


I see champagne twice on the dam's side, WAY back, and then it disappears as you work your way forward. That's if they were true champagnes since the two horses listed as champagne were alive before genetic testing was available. Not sure how champagne dominance works, but I would think more horses closer up in her pedigree would have to be champagne in order for there to be a chance of her being champagne. (for the record, on allbreedpedigree, "ch" stands for chestnut)

Also, I would be interested to see pics of her sire. It says that her sire's dam was a dun and the dam's sire was a dun, but neither of his parents were duns, so that's not possible. Dun, like roan, is a simple dominant. At least one parent has to have the dun gene for the progeny to be dun and if the dun gene is present, it always expresses. A palomino and a chestnut/sorrel do not a dun make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

FWIW, this mare's dam has several other foals, including a palomino by a pally stallion. Which would rule out any sort of cream, right? Or no?
She also has this black paint daughter True Black & White Paint Mare Paint for sale in Eastland76448, Texas :: HorseClicks


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

She looks like a light chestnut or maybe red dun, but I don't really think so. 

If everything on Allbreed is correct (which is questionable), her only options are sorrel or red dun.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I had a yellow dun mare, that was registered as Pali. She had the dorsal stripe, leg barring, and the flax mane and tail. and as Pali colored as can be . But in fact she was a yellow dun.
ch=chestnut sor= sorrell


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

Stevenson - "yellow dun" is Palomino with dun.. It wouldn't be surprising if she was registered as just palomino. You'd have to have it specificially added that "Carries and expresses dun gene" on her papers because they don't put palomino dun as a color.


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Just to throw it out there, is there any possibility that she has pearl? She has Leo waaaay back, and I read somewhere that he may have carried it?

If you couldn't tell, I'm sick and have been pretty bored the past few days LOL. Colors + pedigrees are a blast! Btw, confo critiques are still very much appreciated.


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## riddlemethis (Jun 3, 2008)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I see champagne twice on the dam's side, WAY back, and then it disappears as you work your way forward. That's if they were true champagnes since the two horses listed as champagne were alive before genetic testing was available. Not sure how champagne dominance works, but I would think more horses closer up in her pedigree would have to be champagne in order for there to be a chance of her being champagne. (for the record, on allbreedpedigree, "ch" stands for chestnut)
> 
> Also, I would be interested to see pics of her sire. It says that her sire's dam was a dun and the dam's sire was a dun, but neither of his parents were duns, so that's not possible. Dun, like roan, is a simple dominant. At least one parent has to have the dun gene for the progeny to be dun and if the dun gene is present, it always expresses. A palomino and a chestnut/sorrel do not a dun make.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It doesn't disappear as you work your way forward. It gets misidentified, and with champagne that is VERY easy to do. 

And yes the champagnes were alive before genetic testing, but they have been proven to be one of the founding lines of champagne. Bar Bob Sandy was registered as palomino, but based on her lineage she can only be Gold Champagne. 

Jamars IT, is listed as dun, which he cannot be as it's not carried in either of his lines. So he is most likely some black based champagne that got registered as dun, because they didnt know enough about genetics at that point, let alone champagne to know what he was. 

Jamars Sweetheart is listed as red dun, but since Jamars IT isn't dun, she can't be either. But it was probably all AQHA would allow her to be registered as with her breeding, because she obviously wasn't chestnut.

And then we have the OP horse, who is obviously diluted, obviously not dun IMO, and looks very much like a gold champagne, which her lineage supports.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

This horse looks champagne to me... You can see the mottled and pale skin on her muzzle clear as day! From a conformation standpoint I think she is quite attractive... Needs her feet trimmed. But nice shoulder, some substance, decent hind leg. All depends what you want her for, but I would take a look.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

EliRose said:


> FWIW, this mare's dam has several other foals, including a palomino by a pally stallion. Which would rule out any sort of cream, right? Or no?
> She also has this black paint daughter True Black & White Paint Mare Paint for sale in Eastland76448, Texas :: HorseClicks


No... A pally foal from pally stallion doesn't mean anything except that she carries a gene for red, which we already knew. The cream most likely came from the stallion. I don't, personally, see cream in this mare at all...


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Tryst said:


> No... A pally foal from pally stallion doesn't mean anything except that she carries a gene for red, which we already knew. The cream most likely came from the stallion. I don't, personally, see cream in this mare at all...


I know, I meant that means she CAN'T have cream, because then wouldn't that foal have been cremello?


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

EliRose said:


> I know, I meant that means she CAN'T have cream, because then wouldn't that foal have been cremello?


No... if both parents have one copy the foals possibilities are 25% no cream (chestnut), 50% one cream copy (palomino) and 25% two cream copies (cremello). Each parent has a 50/50 chance of passing that cream gene. Her having a pally foal from a pally sire does not eliminate nor support her having cream... As it is possible for him not to pass his cream gene and for the mare to contribute the cream gene instead (if she carried it).


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## EliRose (Aug 12, 2012)

Tryst said:


> No... if both parents have one copy the foals possibilities are 25% no cream (chestnut), 50% one cream copy (palomino) and 25% two cream copies (cremello). Each parent has a 50/50 chance of passing that cream gene. Her having a pally foal from a pally sire does not eliminate nor support her having cream... As it is possible for him not to pass his cream gene and for the mare to contribute the cream gene instead (if she carried it).


Thanks for clearing that up, I get why I was confused. Was thinking of how cremellos, not pallys


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Well 10000% she is red based. No buckskin, no bay dun.

I suspect maybe champagne too (not bothering with pedigree lol) I sort of see mottled skin and stuff but would like better pics.

So she is chestnut with maybe a dun (unlikely imo) or champagne gene. I love her tail.

Confo- she is cute, she needs a diet and good farrier yesterday!!..Aside from the fact that she looks like a very cute cow and I suspect a lot of my complaints are due to the weight, she is definitely standing under herself (farrier?) don't like her front legs, but it may be due to the way she's standing, her back legs appear sickle hocked and maybe slightly cowhocked, maybe also a little too close (would need to see a pic from the back)

I think with a good diet and a good farrier she would be stunning!! I really like her, and she's not perfect but no horse is, and I don't love her legs but there isn't anything major.. it really depends on what you are looking for and as I said I think she'd be a different horse with a little tlc.

I would post a picture in the critique section too, you'll get better responses.


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## Poseidon (Oct 1, 2010)

EliRose said:


> Just to throw it out there, is there any possibility that she has pearl? She has Leo waaaay back, and I read somewhere that he may have carried it?
> 
> If you couldn't tell, I'm sick and have been pretty bored the past few days LOL. Colors + pedigrees are a blast! Btw, confo critiques are still very much appreciated.


Pearl is complicated. It's an incomplete dominant, first of all. One copy will do nothing to a coat, however, and will only show up if the horse carries two copies of pearl OR pearl and at least one copy of cream. It's rare in stock breeds, so it would be very surprising if her parents were both N/Prl and she ended up Prl/Prl. It's also traced back to Barlink Macho Man primarily, so it would be even more unlikely if he was not in either pedigree.


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