# Desperately seeking advice- Selling to a vaulting team?



## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I have had a vaulting team contact me reference Duffy.

They are European Champions.

The horses are vaulted on 3-4 times a week, ridden around 5 times.

My trainer scared me a bit when she said vaulting horses have no life and die very early or are lame quicker due to the stress of cantering a 15m circle day in day out.

I want to know how much is true,
Personal experiences
And would you sell to a vaulter?

Please help.. I don't want to pass up an opportunity, but I don't want her to be run in to the ground....


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

This is their web page.. they're around 20 mins away so I could always go and see them... TEAM NEUSS


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Sell her and move on to the horse that YOU need.

Duffy, I'm a little harsh when it comes to horses because I've raised and ridden and shown so many, so you may not agree with this. That's ok, you don't have to. BUT!

If Duffy were the horse you wanted/needed you wouldn't be selling her. She has the option of being a good horse for you or being sold on. She's chosen not to be a good horse for you. That makes the choice glaringly obvious to me. 

Sell her and go find the horse of your dreams, life is too short to deal with a horse who is not, and likely never will be on the same page as you are.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok, the ONLY way you can really control the future for a horse is to keep it. I could come by and tell you that it's going to be my sweet lil pasture pet and then turn around and sell the horse 2 weeks later to the meat man. 

If you are selling, you're selling and need to accept that you cannot control the future of your horse from here on out. 

There is absolutely no way I would EVER buy a horse from someone who is going to come examine my place, demand to know what I am going to do with what would then be MY horse and so forth. Are you selling her or not? Something to think about.....


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Guys, I really appreciate your words, and I know in my heart of hearts I have to sell her.

However.

You don't sell a badly conformed horse to barrel race for two years before its no longer rideable, if you get my drift.

If she was worked a few years then became a pasture pet, no issue.. but I don't know what lives Vaulting horses have, the stresses it puts on their legs and whether I am better off continuing selling her on as a riding horse.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

And whose to say the individual who buys her as a riding horse won't decide to take up Vaulting?

Or maybe they'll take up barrel racing or eventing?

You cannot control the future of a horse you sell.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thats true, but like I said, I'm not interested in selling techniques right now, I'm wanting people, who have experience or knowledge of, to let me know the effects of vaulting on a horse.

I am looking through their horses at the moment, and most of them have been there since 06/07..and some travelled to America for comps...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Duffy, the point is, you are selling. And yes, if the kid who bought the poorly conformed horse to use as a barrel racer, I would sell the horse. I would not advertise the horse as a barrel racer, but it's not my problem what the new owner chooses to use the horse for. If the horse breaks down under their care, it's their problem, they should know better.

I'd say it's a pretty big compliment that the vaulters want Duffy. Those horses are trained to within an inch of their lives and they are pretty cossetted and cared for. I wouldn't think twice about selling her to them. Remember, your trainer is making money by having Duffy on her string right now. If you sell her and don't have another horse, she's not making the same amount of money. Also, it sounds like the vaulters didn't contact you through her, so she won't make a commission, if that's the case. Be sure there's no agenda behind what she's saying, and even then, look for the agenda because everyone in the horse biz has one.

Look at Duffy like a not real great boyfriend. If you break up with your boyfriend because he's disrespectful and you don't trust him, do you care what the next girl does with him? NO! He can either learn through experience to become a good boyfriend for someone else or he'll get passed on again......See what I'm saying? Duffy has the choice to become the best vaulter's horse in the world.....or not......but it's her choice to get with SOMEONE'S program if she wants to keep eating. If she chooses to NOT be agreeable to someone, then someone else will make a harder decision about her but it's not YOUR problem.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I never thought of it like that.. she does work well on the lunge too... and when I said I can go see them, I didn't mean as in SURPRISE VISIT :K style, but ask if they mind if I come see her occassionaly and see how she's getting on as they're so close.. some people don't mind, some do.

You think I should go ahead and make the appointment, then.. see how it goes?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

DuffyDuck said:


> I never thought of it like that.. she does work well on the lunge too... and when I said I can go see them, I didn't mean as in SURPRISE VISIT :K style, but ask if they mind if I come see her occassionaly and see how she's getting on as they're so close.. some people don't mind, some do.
> 
> You think I should go ahead and make the appointment, then.. see how it goes?


 
I personaly would more than make the appointment, I'd be sure she was on the trailer when they left.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I have spoken to my mum, and talked it through.

All their horses look happy, in fab condition and great facilities. I am going to make an appointment for a quiet Sunday afternoon.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

TEAM NEUSS

TEAM NEUSS

TEAM NEUSS

TEAM NEUSS

TEAM NEUSS

TEAM NEUSS

If you scroll down you can hover over the pictures, and see them larger.

If you scroll further down, you see their competition results.. wowsers.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Good Job!


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I'm just going to repeat myself for the sake of it haha.

I have lent a horse to a vaulting club before, I have no issues with vaulters and really, any type of competition puts any horse under stress emotionally and physically.
The horses are well taken care of, it's a very reputable team and honestly, looks like a great place for her. Who cares what kind of competition the home she ends up in does, as long as you know they are going to be good to her is all that matters.

Good luck!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

You SO copied and pasted that from chat aha!

Again, sorry to repeat, but I agree, and stress on the legs can happen here, or in a dressage home, or galloping about in the woods.. 

So, we will see what happens.. but after taking another look at those horses.. will Duffy match their caliber of horse :rofl:


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

DuffyDuck said:


> will Duffy match their caliber of horse :rofl:


 
They obviously think so or they wouldn't have contacted you. Soooo, Duffy must be pretty darn good, and I'd sure make them think she walks on water.


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## Kawonu (Apr 24, 2011)

I personally think it never hurts to look into the person looking to buy your horse. No, you may not know the absolute future, but you can reassure yourself of the current buyer, buying from you. I think that's the point other have missed.

You cannot get angry with anyone who decides to sell your horse off to some harsh barn or ranch, but at the same time, you can personally choose who that horse goes to when being transferred from your hands. I understand your concern of selling Duffy somewhere when your trainer mentioned what kind of strain it can cause. You are attempting to do what you can in Duffy's interest, and that's very respectable.

Visit with these people, look them up and down for any kinks or blemishes, and if it seems things are truly going well with their horses, consider it Duffy's new home. Heck, she might really enjoy being a vaulter!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> They obviously think so or they wouldn't have contacted you. Soooo, Duffy must be pretty darn good, and I'd sure make them think she walks on water.


 
SHE DOES WALK ON WATER... didn't you know?!? And thats true.. and they have a horse BIGGER than her.. I didn't even know that was possible..


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

I haven't found anything about the ill effects of vaulting on horses, but I did read an article awhile back that said they are less prone to negative behaviors (cribbing/weaving/etc) than other competitive horses. 

I say meet with them and see what they think about her and what you think about them, if it seems like a good fit go for it, if not keep trying to sell her. IMO you do have a duty to every animal you buy/raise to find it the best owner possible if you are selling. You can't control what happens to them, but you can give them a good chance at a good life by setting them up in a situation they'll enjoy. You're the only one who knows if Duffy will enjoy being a vaulter or not...


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I am trying to find anything bad on vaulting horses....
And found nothing.

Apart from inexperienced vaulters can give them a bad back from thumping around.. but as they're highly trained.. I'd think they'd do alright!


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## Endiku (Dec 6, 2010)

I think it sounds like a wonderful home for Duffy. She's smooth and consistent, and from what I saw of her lunging, she has that nice biiiiig, rocking sort of canter that comes from a well balanced horse. The kind of canter that vaulters will kill for. 

As for care of vaulting horses, I'm no professional. But I did spend a short time with a farm who owned three vaulting horses, and all three were sleek, well cared for monster (in size only) horses who enjoyed their jobs. And you really don't have to worry too much about their joints when cantering those circles because of the size of the circle (they aren't just jolting around in a 10m circle. More like 25' plus) and because of the training that goes into them. Those horses are so well conditioned that they can out-last half of the arabians that I've met :3


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

this might work for Duffy


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## OuttatheBlue (Dec 8, 2011)

Can't help you as I have zero experience with vaulting, but this sounds like an awesome opportunity for Duffy!  If she becomes a vaulter you'll have to take videos of her at shows, I bet she'll look amazing!


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Oh, I can pitch in on this one. I used to vault for 10 years as a kid in Germany (8-18yrs, with the RG Strasslach), and taught my own group of kids for two years after that. Neuss is one of the BIG names in vaulting in Europe, they have several groups, from beginner kids to the good A groups that compete internationally, as well as single and pair vaulters.

Vaulting is a lot of stress on the horse, as not only do they have to canter for 10min straight, but also always on the same lead and with up to three vaulters on the horse at the same time shifting their weight around. So a very steady-minded horse with a god canter rhythm is essential.
Most serious groups take good care and make sure that the horse is very well ridden on the "off" days, including cavaletti work and trails. Some of the smaller barns use the horses in a lesson program, but as far as I know Neuss focuses on vaulting only, so I don't think they even have a lesson program. That being said, there is the occasional horse who comes up lame from the strain that's put on the legs and feet. 

Just as important as the physical ability though is the horse's mind. We had horses who loved it and horses who didn't. The ones who didn't were pretty quickly rotated into other jobs. Our best was Barney, a little (1.52m) red roan. He wasn't all that crazy about being ridden, and when adults entered his stall he could be pretty nasty, but he adored the kids. He enjoyed being groomed by five kids at the same time and was a total patient sweety when they learned moves on him. Just a great horse for vaulting altogether, and it was visibly the highlight of his week, he was so happy. At the point where the horse is not willingly participating anymore - i.e. changes rhythm, crow hops etc. - it's pretty much unusable for vaulting. And trust me, it's not a good feeling for someone on top who is losing balance. I'd say that horses are probably just as often retired from vaulting for their attitude as for lameness.

If you're not sure, ask them if you can go to see one of their practice sessions or arrange a trial period. When we bought a horse for the purpose of vaulting, one of the experienced vaulters would often come and try the horse out - just see how it handles the surcingle, being approached from the side etc.

So... for the right horse like our Barney it can be the best thing ever. And another plus, with groups of vaulters there is usually always someone from the group who is willing to take over a retired horse and give it a great home.

Good luck with your decision,
Regula.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

I just saw that my old barn still has our old vaulting horse Barney

RGS - Reitergemeinschaft Mnchen-Solln-Stralach e.V. - Barney

I was 12 when they bought him and he's the one I had my first vaulting competition on... so much for longevity .


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

GO FOR IT! The video that I saw of Duffy lunging was amazing. She looked fabulous and it's such a compliment that that caliber vaulting stable would be looking at your horse. I'd be geeked!

Their horses look is such good condition and maybe vaulting is Duffy's niche.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I have a student who does vaulting. She is doing trot tests right now. Her coach has loaned her a Percheron cross for this. The draft breeds are not often used for canter work which mostly uses warmbloods. My students mother is thinking about allowing her young dressage horse to cross train as a canter horse. I seriously doubt that she would do that if canter horses are prone to lameness issues any more than any other horse is. 

prince, the trot horse, is a well loved and sound horse. The interesting thing is, Prince was born with a serious toed in front foot. If it was such a hard life, there is no way that foot would have lasted the way it has.

Prince with two of his vaulters





















OUCH!











Duffy doesn't seem to like what she is doing now. Why not give her the opportunity to see if this is a life she will like....to be loved and cared for nicely. I'm sure, with her strong attitude, if she doesn't like it she will let them know


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Regula said:


> Oh, I can pitch in on this one. I used to vault for 10 years as a kid in Germany (8-18yrs, with the RG Strasslach), and taught my own group of kids for two years after that. Neuss is one of the BIG names in vaulting in Europe, they have several groups, from beginner kids to the good A groups that compete internationally, as well as single and pair vaulters.
> 
> Vaulting is a lot of stress on the horse, as not only do they have to canter for 10min straight, but also always on the same lead and with up to three vaulters on the horse at the same time shifting their weight around. So a very steady-minded horse with a god canter rhythm is essential.
> Most serious groups take good care and make sure that the horse is very well ridden on the "off" days, including cavaletti work and trails. Some of the smaller barns use the horses in a lesson program, but as far as I know Neuss focuses on vaulting only, so I don't think they even have a lesson program. That being said, there is the occasional horse who comes up lame from the strain that's put on the legs and feet.
> ...


 
Wow Regula... thank you SO much for all of your info!

Duffy enjoys lunging, but she had to be taught it when I got her... mind wise she's pretty unflappable, but has quite sensitive sides IMO, from when I groom her, but riding, unless she has respect for you, you can kick her all day long and she'll just walk.

They have said they do vaulting 3-4 times a week, and ride 5 times. I would probably want to see them ride her too, as she isn't an easy ride, and if they can't cope with the ridden work, I don't want her to just be lunged over and over.

I'm about to view your page, too.. how amazing that Barney is still going strong! 
I think what would be important for me is to know what would happen if she came up lame in two years... I know every situation is different, but do they retire the horses in to a pasture, or shoot them.

Also, she is pigeon toed, so I don't know if that would effect her longevity.

But then if I sold her to a jumping home, she'd still be expected to do a lot of canter work- with jumps.

This may be her niche.. who knows.

I'm getting my dad (perfect German speaker) to give them a ring today and make the appointment..a rgh!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

I personaly have no problem with selling to vaulters just because they are vaulters.

I do disagree with Dreamcatchers as I would not just sell to anyone who has the money. I personaly want to do the best I can for any horse that comes through my hands whether or not that horse was the correct horse for me. So If someone had offered me £40K for Reeco, but wanted him as a harness horse or as a childs ride they would be told to P off as he is far far far to sharp for any child and he struggles not to panic with longlines let alone anything else behind him. If I ever were to sell Reeco it would have to be to the best home for him, If they only wanted him for hacking out it would be a bit of a waste of a horse but he would be happy and that would be my main priority (he does love his hacking). Making sure you get a home where the horse is happy doing its job is my main priority because if the horse is happy and relaxed then the rider will be which helps with the long term safety of the horse.


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

I also disagree with dreamcatcher, with respect, I dont agree with the analogy that a horse is like a bad boyfriend, as I think they do mostly try to be agreeable and work for us to the best of their abilities (I'm sure Duffy does), and our reasons for selling them has nothing to do with then not wanting to do their best by us. Its OUR reasons, and this doesn't really reflect on them. They are not what we want, but that doesn't make them lesser in any way, or deserving to be unloaded without due concern. I wonder if this makes sense, in my head it does, but I don't have the best English today. 

Perhaps I feel this way because i do not breed, or train, or trade, or in any way have a lot of horses pass through my hands, as I'm sure dreamcatcher does, so I have the 'luxury' of feeling more sentimental and protective about their futures. As you are not a breeder, trader, trainer either, it is not wrong for you to worry about who you sell her to, instead of just accepting the first cheque. IMO.

Point is, sell her to the best possible home, because in the end, what matters is that you feel good in your gut about it afterwards. And I'm sure you'll know the person who is right for Duffy, when you see them. If its the vaulters, then its them. You'll know.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Would you like the good news?

After my let down of a rider last wednesday who said 'yes I'll buy if she's clear on the vet check' then 24 hours later sent me a facebook message to say no...

I phoned Team Neuss on Friday. I have stated that they can try her for vaulting, and if they like her, they MUST ride her and be able to cope with her. Thats my stipulation for the sale- if they can't ride her, she won't go. Because if they can't ride her.. lunging day in day out.

So they lady said I need to sort out with my team a time to come down, and we will let you know.

I waited all weekend, then Sunday a smaller vaulting team "Ebbinghausen" got in touch too- I am still awaiting a phonecall from their trainer.

SO I was a little bit cheeky.

I phoned Team Neuss and left a voicemail (In Germish) And stated another vaulting group are interested in her, I am unsure if you are still interested? Please text or call (Their english is like my German)

ANDDD

They're coming to try her Friday 

They're really interested in her!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks Allison


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Cool! Take pictures (or better, have someone else take pictures  )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm going to see if I can film it.. wwill be really interesting to see, then you can let me know if you think they did good bad or ugly LOL


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Haha, they're Neuss. Doesn't get much better 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

Good luck! Fingers and toes crossed for a successful trial.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

Hoping all goes well.


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

Good luck!!!!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Hope it'll work out this time!


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, take photos.

At the very least, if Duffy takes exception to someone standing on her back, we may get great photos of a huge, unintended dismount!! ROFL!


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## caseymyhorserocks (Apr 5, 2010)

-crosses fingers- 

Sounds like that would be a great home for her! Good luck.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks guys ;D

And Allison think POSITIVE thoughts LOL

I think she's just come in to season.. hoping like hell this doesn't make her more sensivtive... uhoh aha


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Well, I have been ill. Very ill.

I had Physio Monday, and due to the prodding, poking, knuckles etc I was left with a very sore and tender shoulder/neck/back. So, I took my meds as prescribed by the doctor.
Tuesday I lasted till lunch time at work as I kept falling asleep and saying weird things. For some reason, I had a fascination about Na'an bread... weird!
Wednesday I didn't take any more tablets, felt a bit stiff, however didn't want the spinning effect.
By 10am I'd thrown up three times and was sent home- someone told me diclofenac should have been provided with stomach protectors and thats most likely what made me so ill yesterday.

Either way, Duffy wasn't ridden yesterday. Nor today as she's being shod at the time I would ride.

And they're coming tomorrow.

I did say can we postpone till Sunday, explaining I wsa ill and she'd be fresh.. but they're determined, and still coming!! 

Say a little prayer that my horse isn't a complete nightmare!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Can someone work her for you? Maybe, at least, turn her out and lunge her for a bit?


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

No can do.. no one will ride her.. too scared of her height.. heck, she's good as gold and better behaved than the rest of the horses! She's out at the moment, and being shod this evening...however, she normally just has a buck and a fart on the lunge, and settles after a couple of rounds.. I did warn them she would be fresh, but they said they'll be able to handle it.. :S
We will see.

However... horses will be horses! And they should know they are sometimes a bit 'fresh' no matter what you feed or do with them haha!

Like I said.. I will be filming


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## PumpkinzMyBaby22 (Jul 5, 2009)

At least they'll be fully prepared for what they are going to be dealing with 

Again, I hope all goes well and that you get better quickly!


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

Don't worry! It will go super, I'm sure... If these people are professionals, which is obvs. then they can handle her au naturelle! 

And as we've said before, if it clicks for Duffy, I bet she will behave her best just to impress them!


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## bettyb (Mar 13, 2012)

I used to be in a vaulting team and for sure that wasn't true about the horses we used.

They were fabulous horses. A couple of high level dressage horses and a couple of high level driving horses. VERY well trained.

I guess it depends who is keeping them how they are kept though.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Muumi I bet she WON'T behave aha, like with other riders, she'll probably not do anything or even try to do anything... knowing my luck aha!

I'm hoping it all works out bettyb, these are supposed to be top of the top out here, so I am hoping that their horses are wellt aken care of. They're going to test her for vaulting first, and if she's successful in their eyes, they'll come back to ride her- my stipulation, to ensure they can.

Then we'll go from there!

But still going to film it LOL


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

If I were selling my horse, I'd want any potential buyer to be able to handle her at her worst. She's good as gold 90% of the time and just about anyone could handle her then. But now and then she's on her toes and sharp as a tack and it's those times that require you to be a proper horseman/woman and for that reason, I would never advertise her as a beginner horse. Even at 18. I swear sometimes she's going on 4 instead of 19.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

thesilverspear said:


> If I were selling my horse, I'd want any potential buyer to be able to handle her at her worst. She's good as gold 90% of the time and just about anyone could handle her then. But now and then she's on her toes and sharp as a tack and it's those times that require you to be a proper horseman/woman and for that reason, I would never advertise her as a beginner horse. Even at 18. I swear sometimes she's going on 4 instead of 19.


 
Y'know.. I didn't even THINK of that... EVERY CLOUD HAS A SILVER LINING.. or a silver spear ;D Thanks!!


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

thesilverspear said:


> If I were selling my horse, I'd want any potential buyer to be able to handle her at her worst.


Yes, This is exactly what I was thinking as well... She'll be better off being bought by someone who knows her best and worst...

I really wouldn't worry about it.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

So how did it go? you said they were coming Friday right?


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Apologies 

I neglected to get online!

They came, they saw, they went.

Well, not that quickly.

She aced height and temperament.

And she stressed out completely with the vaulting gear on her back, kicking her legs out, ears back, tail swishing, so we called it a day.

They said if I have her in a couple of years time when she's matured a bit more they'd love to come back, but they were really professional about it and didn't want to rush her


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

I hope this works for you and Duffy


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

It's a shame that didn't work out. Is she still up for sale?


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

Maybe she isn't meant to be a vaulting horse...
I am sure her owner will come along soon!


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

SusanC I think so too.. but you don't know till you try 

I have someone else interested.. a Dr who lives on the other side of Germany who is coming april 20!! 

And yes, she's still for sale- her advertisement is here 
Westfale Stute 7 Jahre Fuchs Dressurpferd Freizeitpferd


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Aww, sorry to hear it didn't work out... But then maybe she's just not a vaulting horse. Good luck with the new guy, sounds amazing 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

maybe this was for the best 
now she will get a good home


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