# 4 yr. old OTTB looking to buy



## zagulala (Jun 23, 2009)

Hi everyone, I'm looking at this guy to purchase but would like some feedback on his conformation; any pros or cons would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Subbing <3


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Since no one else has made a comment I will give my impressions....

Someone who knows horses took the time to show off the good points of this one!!
He is very nice.
I like how he is balanced front to hind end, not to heavy not to light.
He has a bilateral toeing out behind yet well placed hind legs.
Nice tail-set.
Nice top-line that blends together.
His neck ties in a wee bit high but not bad either.
He does though have a weaker looking neck to his body, no definition that he carried himself well while moving.
He has a nice free stride, flat knee action.
A sloping shoulder that should allow many disciplines of riding fun...
A soft eye and nicely shaped head.
Flat forehead, tapered muzzle, not to long a head, nicely positioned and shaped eye...
He is still developing, maturing and what is seen today may and will change tomorrow...
He to me is a looker.....

The only thing I see that I would investigate carefully and further is the front legs.
I can't tell nor decide if I see bandage marks compressed in the coat or if it is residual pin firing marks _{and yes, the practice is still used today}

Nice horse...he could live in my barn no problem!!
:runninghorse2:....
jmo...
_


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I agree with @Horseluvinguy.
Nice horse, no obvious glaring faults. I'd go look at him, see if I saw any faults in person, hear about his history (injuries, etc), and if all that was good I'd buy him.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree, nice balanced horse
The most glaring fault I noticed, were knees that are slightly offset
It is actually quite normal for hind feet to toe out slightly, and that helps those hind legs clear the body.
That total square stance,of hind feet, is a halter fad


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think he's nice EXCEPT his right front leg is crooked. front view shows this. also, the hoof angles are wierd on front feet, but that can be changed. front feet would require careful examination.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I think he's nice EXCEPT his right front leg is crooked. front view shows this. also, the hoof angles are wierd on front feet, but that can be changed. front feet would require careful examination.


I'd want to see and feel his front legs in person. I was thinking the legs were probably not crooked, but sitting off center in the joints due to the high/low situation of the front hooves. You can see the common issue with the left front being steeper and taller than the right, which is also sitting the left knee higher than the other. Having one hoof higher just moves everything up on that side. 
Also, both front hooves are trimmed with the inside higher than the outside. 
Since this is a young horse, I would hope there are not joint changes from this imbalance, and that uneven muscling could be corrected.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

His knees are off set,esp the right one It is not limited to hoof imbalance. Draw that plumb line


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Smilie said:


> His knees are off set,esp the right one It is not limited to hoof imbalance. Draw that plumb line


I'd still want to see it in person before saying. It might be an illusion because his knees look flat and not knobby from the side view.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

gottatrot said:


> I'd still want to see it in person before saying. It might be an illusion because his knees look flat and not knobby from the side view.


Of course it is always best to see a horse in person, but why would knees look knobby from the side, if they are off set?
Only way I have ever evaluated as to whether knees were off set, was by looking at those front legs straight on, dropping that imaginary plumb line

I sure would like to see the horse in person, and watch him move, to be sure.
Here is agood video on off set knees







Offset Knees (Bench Knees)

This conformation flaw is best seen from the front of the horse. This flaw gets its name because the cannon bone is placed too far laterally or to the outside of the knee--offset. A line from the scapula down the leg would intersect the radius in the middle of the bone, but the line would be on the inside of the cannon bone. This conformation results in more stress being placed on the medial side (inside) of the cannon bone, especially on the medial splint bone. This flaw often results in horses with medial splints.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

quote=gottatrot;9706145]I'd still want to see it in person before saying. It might be an illusion because his knees look flat and not knobby from the side view.[/quote]
Of course it is always best to see a horse in person, but why would knees look knobby from the side, if they are off set?
Only way I have ever evaluated as to whether knees were off set, was by looking at those front legs straight on, dropping that imaginary plumb line

I sure would like to see the horse in person, and watch him move, to be sure.
Here is agood video on off set knees







Offset Knees (Bench Knees)


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Because when you actually draw a line down the leg bones, the right leg lines up better than the left. The right knee looks knobby where I've marked in gray, and I think that is an illusion because if the knee were that large and deformed I think you might see it in other views too. 

The left leg appears misaligned at the joints, and I think that might be simply from an awkward positioning or hoof imbalance. I've seen these things appear in photos due to the lighting or an awkward alignment by the handler, and when I've seen the horse in real life they have good legs. This horse is not actually lined up square and facing the camera perfectly. Probably because he is an OTTB and that might take all day, LOL.

But the horse could have crooked legs, I'd want to watch the horse move, feel the legs, and also bend the joints to see how they line up (pastern to cannon bone, cannon bone to upper leg).


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

something looks off about these photos. Have you seen the horse in person ? these almost look photo shopped or have been' touched up ' or edited . 
If these are natural photos , this horse has a rolled front toe and looks to have on front pads.


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## zagulala (Jun 23, 2009)

Thank you so much for the amazing feedback on him. I wasn't sure why anyone was responding as I thought I was giving everyone pretty good pics to judge him but thank you so much, I really appreciate the feedback. 

I have not seen this guy because he's a few hours away and didn't want to take the drive if anyone saw noteworthy conformation faults as I feel the front legs are off also so I think I may pass on this guy because I plan on buying my next guy to be a life long partner and would like to start off with a clean slate, especially when it comes to the legs. Thank you again for the feedback.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

gottatrot--Thanks for the informative post! You're a wealth of information ;o;


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

ask the seller to send you better pics of his front legs. if they are serious they will and it could clear up the leg thing. i think he might be a nice horse so its worth a shot right?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

KigerQueen said:


> ask the seller to send you better pics of his front legs. if they are serious they will and it could clear up the leg thing. i think he might be a nice horse so its worth a shot right?


Yes, better pictures and also a video of the horse moving, watching him trot both towards you and away
I agree that he is a nice enough horse to look at in more depth, and not just go by one set of pictures
Do you know if he stood up to training, while on the track, and was just culled for not having the speed?


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

The following is why I would wish to see at least a video of the horse moving, if not possible to see him in person
You can shoe or trim a horse, so he looks pretty good standing, but if the knees are offset, movement will show it much better

The key to checking front leg conformation is to observe the horse in motion as well as at rest. Corrective shoeing or trimming might diminish the appearance of some conformational defects, but man-made solutions to poor conformation cannot change the bone structure that caused the problem in the first place. The problem horse whose hooves have been modified to cover up a toeing-in or toeing-out problem might look straight and correct when standing, but the problem will often surface at the trot, sometimes in dramatic fashion.


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## Captain Evil (Apr 18, 2012)

Well, Wow! Just Wow! What an eye catching horse; a true beauty.

I see what people are saying about his front legs. I would have said his righrtr front was a little wonky, not the left, until the lines were drawn. There is a tiny bump on the outside front pasturn near the coronet band: is that anything? 

His hips are also uneven, but he is also not standing square behind. But what a looker!!!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I think the horse has had some corrective shoing, and the person who stood him up is pretty good, making him look as good as possible in the front legs, while standing anyways
The left front, is turned out at the pasterns, while the right front is turned in, which is completely un natural.
Stand that left leg correctly also, and it would look similar to the right, JMO, with the knees turning slightly out on both.
That is my impression anyways, until better pics and a video, and I still think, until then, that the horse is off in the knees


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@*gottatrot* I'm not so sure you drew the lines in the right places. I think if you think about where the leg bone comes down from the elbow, it would originat a bit more to the outside of the horse. 









also, if you look at the knee joint itself, you can kind of see that the line where the upper half of the knee meets the lower half is angled. maybe , as you say, it is an illusion of the photos. I am just being nitpicky for fun.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

Sure, but from this photo you can't draw accurate lines because the horse is not standing square. Usually they are drawn just outside the chest muscles, which I attempted to do. 








But although the right leg is close to straight on, the left leg is not, so the only thing lines can tell us is that in this photo the left leg appears more crooked than the right. But without a square pose, we can't know much more than that. 

The joints will start to make weird angles if the horse is standing close or wide, so evaluation from a photo is difficult.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Can't tell on the horse with legs widely spread, but that pony is in at the knees. which is exagerated in the wide stance
The right leg is not straight on, in the horse in question
If it were, then in would have a similar defect as the left leg, with toe pointed out, knee slightly rotated. I have yet to see a horse, with toes pointed in the opposite direction, on any given set of legs!


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

tinyliny said:


> I think he's nice EXCEPT his right front leg is crooked. front view shows this. also, the hoof angles are wierd on front feet, but that can be changed. front feet would require careful examination.


That's what I noticed too. Overall, I think he's pretty good! What would you be using him for? (Pleasure, Jumping, Dressage, Barrel Racing (probably not. :grin: )


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