# Trouble steering at trot and canter



## timmythenarwhal (Sep 21, 2015)

So my horse is insanely stubborn, when I started working with him he wouldn't turn no matter how far I pulled his head over. We finally got past that and in fact he's starting to get pretty good at neck reigning, until we go past a walk. As soon as I let him take off he goes where he wants, no matter how far I pull his head and how much leg I use. Please help!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Horses follow their shoulders, not their head. They will tend to follow their head if trained right. You might try working of figure 8s and random turns at a walk. Use very light pressure for the turn. Do NOT pull his head hard or far - just tip the nose a little. Then use pressure on the outside shoulder, with leg and a crop or reins if needed.

If the horse is getting too excited by speed, just bring them to a stop. Then work more on good turns and good stops at a slower speed. Training means creating a habit of obedience, and that requires a lot of successful repetition.

These videos might help:


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Is he stubborn or confused? How old is he? How long have you had him? How much time does he have under saddle? What is your level of experience?
So many things we don't know...hard to give advice.


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## timmythenarwhal (Sep 21, 2015)

Dustbunny said:


> Is he stubborn or confused? How old is he? How long have you had him? How much time does he have under saddle? What is your level of experience?
> So many things we don't know...hard to give advice.


You make a good point, he's stubborn, he'll just stop when he doens't want to do something and he always turns us around to go home when I let him go faster. He's about 17, his exact age I don't know. My uncle has had him as a pasture ornament for almost a decade, I just started working with him last Spring, since I've spent at least 5 hours a week working on groundwork or general skills and usually closer to 10. Honestly I'm a pretty green rider, he's the first horse I've really worked with or ridden. I do have the luxury of having the help of a much more experienced horseman, but he's not positive what to do either.


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## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

I'm going to approach this from a slightly different direction. If you were to not cue with the reins at all (either leave them sitting on his withers or keep holding them but not move your hands) and only cue from the seat and legs at the walk, what would your horse do? If your answer is just walk off wherever he wants, then if that was my horse, what I would work on would be getting him more responsive to leg and seat before asking it at a trot.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

^^ Yep-agree with reining……..along with the fact that you MUST look where you want to go. THe power of that alone is amazing. 

I will say-at 17 you are trying to teach this horse a whole new way……why not just direct rein? IMO he "stops" because he is confused. That is the first reaction of many horses. When you do not know what you are doing it is very difficult for you to teach him. I sent mine out to a trainer for the steering (neck rein) since I had always ridden english and had no clue. Best $$ ever spent.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

wait, you are pulling him to turn, but you are neck reining? what kind of bit are you using? if you are not using a true snaffle, then you should not be pulling him around.

to use "direct reining" (what you call pulling), you need to use a snaffle. in fact, if the horse does not steer very well, use this sort of bit and work only on direct reining. I think part of the problem is that you are trying to neck rein before the horse understands how to direct rein.


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## PrivatePilot (Dec 7, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> wait, you are pulling him to turn, but you are neck reining? what kind of bit are you using? if you are not using a true snaffle, then you should not be pulling him around.
> 
> to use "direct reining" (what you call pulling), you need to use a snaffle. in fact, if the horse does not steer very well, use this sort of bit and work only on direct reining. I think part of the problem is that you are trying to neck rein before the horse understands how to direct rein.


That was more or less what I was about to say. When the OP mentioned "pulling his head over" in one sentence, but neck reining in another...it makes me wonder if it's just a situation where the horse was trained one way but the OP is trying to ride the other way? Or a confusing mix of both that the horse is overloading on trying to understand what the OP wants?

Timmy...can you provide more details on this horse, his background, training, age, your riding experience...and how long you've owned him?


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## greentree (Feb 27, 2013)

Be sure you are LOOKING where you want him to go, not down at his neck, or somewhere else. When you look in the direction you want, it carries through your entire body, and helps cue your horse. You may be able to invisibly get him to go where you want, and really amaze people!


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## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

I worked with a young woman a couple of days ago who was thinking of selling her horse because it was too “hot”. I explained that most “hot” horses are simply tense and that she should work on helping her horse relax. I had her mount. Then, I had her do some exercises to relax herself while I held the reins. Then, I asked her to begin walking her horse with the lightest cues possible. While walking, I told her to do deep breathing exercises and even sing to her horse to help it relax. Finally, I asked her to simply rotate her upper body to the left. Her horse performed a relaxed turn to the left.

While my teaching generally includes much more, I use this as an illustration of how a horse responds to changes in the rider’s body. We have been blessed with hands that are vary useful for a variety of tasks. When riding, however, we want to learn to use other parts of our bodies.

When turning a horse, I use the leading rein only as a last resort. If used, I try to apply the pressure smoothly and release the pressure as soon as the horse shows any indication of a proper response. If necessary, the pressure may be applied again with the same release when a proper response if offered. It is also important that any pressure on the other rein be released so the rider is not inadvertently applying pressure with both reins.

I try to get riders to think about turning their horses in much the same way we turn a friend when we are walking with our arm around our friend’s shoulder. We simply turn and our friend turns with us. If we try to pull our friend, our friend may resist.

My basic method of turning consists of the following. I draw my outside leg back slightly – maybe an inch at the most – while keeping my heel down. This will encourage the horse to bend its body rather than turning stiffly and swinging its rear outward. My inside leg remains in its normal position to provide the horse something to bend its body around. I generally apply no more pressure with my legs than what is provided naturally by the effect of gravity. 

I, then, rotate my body in the direction of the turn. I think of my upper body as a block of wood with every part moving together. The head does not turn more than the shoulders. Neither do the hands. My body remains upright and does not lean into the turn. I imagine a circle painted on the ground and look about one sixth of the way around the circumference with the eyes in my head and imaginary eyes in my chest. 

Many things happen when I do this including the outside rein touching the horse’s neck – neck reining. I seldom explain all of the things that happen, because riders often exaggerate one or more of these things and cause resistence in the horse. 

Using this technique, a horse will generally turn without resistence. This assumes that the rider is sitting correctly. It also works best when the rider encourages his horse to work in a relaxed manner rather than tensing its muscles in resistence to a rider’s attempts to force the horse to do something.

In the unlikely event this method does not produce the desired turn, I will try various things to help the horse understand what I want without responding to force. As a last resort, I will use the leading rein as described above.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

He might not actually be bending, in case trying to force it out of him at higher speeds does nothing.

Work on it at the halt, then the walk. Inside leg to outside rein.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_I try to get riders to think about turning their horses in much the same way we turn a friend when we are walking with our arm around our friend’s shoulder. We simply turn and our friend turns with us...In the unlikely event this method does not produce the desired turn, I will try various things to help the horse understand what I want without responding to force._"​That may work with a submissive horse. It would work with mine as long as they didn't feel inclined to do something else. But all of my horses will pretty regularly say something like, "_But THIS was goes home_...", "_That path looks rocky. The other looks much smoother_." or "_There is a patch of grass over there and I haven't eaten in 20 minutes_." Or they will complain that a tight turn is too much work when a gradual turn will get them there eventually. And as they get faster, they tend to be more resistant to turning and more intent on finishing first.

In the picture below, I'm starting to use a leading rein to turn right. My hand has moved forward slightly (notice more slack on that side) and I'm about to move it a few inches to the right.








​ 
That is hardly a forceful cue, but it is a clear enough one that my horse can obey it IF she feels like it. The truth is, Mia didn't always feel like it - and neither do my other horses. Maybe that comes with being a backyard rider of backyard horses.

This was Trooper a few months ago, when he was a bit wound up:








​ 
We were going straight at the time, but no way no how someone was going to turning him by just turning themselves. But there are times he's respond just fine to a small shift in weight:








​ 
I've tried doing deep breathing exercises with Mia & Bandit. I've sung them plenty of songs. When faced with a "threat", both of them seem to think a relaxed rider is a stupid rider, or at least an unaware rider who needs their horse to save them.

I've never ridden a highly trained horse. I probably never will. The level of horses that I ride like clarity - a clear, consistent cue given by someone who means it and who probably isn't interested in hearing "No" or even "No, thank you". (The big exception to that is if the horse is genuinely afraid - horses don't learn much when afraid so a scared horse needs a different approach). I suspect the OP's world looks similar to mine.

The Complete Guide To Western Horsemanship by J. P. Forget is the best single book I've seen on western riding. It discusses various ways to cue a turn in detail. It can be bought for $5 including shipping. I recommend buying it, reading about how to give clear turn cues to a horse, and following its advice. Pick a couple of ways of cueing and stick to those. Practice them at a walk. When the horse is very good at a walk, practice them at a trot. Only bump up a gear when the horse is good at the lower gear. If the horse gets too excited to listen well, stop him. If he doesn't have a good stop, make that your top priority.

This is an emergency stop technique that has saved my butt before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFt-yJhVZg8


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm honestly a little confused by the description of your actions and your goals--if you are neck reining, it seems as though you are giving conflicting cues? What sort of training did this horse have before he was a pasture puff?

I hate to be "that" person, but is getting the help of a trainer not an option?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

"that " person is only saying what needs to be said.


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## timmythenarwhal (Sep 21, 2015)

Sounds like some great advice, I'll definatley have to try a few of your guys's tips! And just to clarify, I wasn't pulling his head with the neck rein, we went from me having to pull his head with a 'traditional' rein, to him giving to the bit, to starting a transition to neck reining!


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