# What would you call this color?



## JethroOTTB




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## WhyAHorseOfCourse

Sooty buckskin.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

Yup a very very sooty buckskin!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FeatheredFeet

Very sooty Buckskin and very pretty.

Incidentally, I've never had a buckskin or a sooty anything. Do the sooties change with seasons or throughout life? Has a sooty gene been identified?

And welcome, JethroOTTB.

Lizzie


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## xXcre8tiveXx

pretty whatever the color is


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## toto

The dh showed me this horse yesterday- i dont think he believed me so- heres proof! the pros say sooty buckskin too! :lol:


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## Copperhead

Holy crest, Batman!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toto

Copperhead said:


> Holy crest, Batman!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Holy feet, robin! :lol:


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## Wheatermay

I'd call it magnificent....


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## RockinRorie

sooty buckskin


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## BreakableRider

I realize this is an old thread but I couldn't help myself, smokey brown, not buckskin.


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## Allison Finch

BreakableRider said:


> I realize this is an old thread but I couldn't help myself, smokey brown, not buckskin.


 
Really? I would have thought sooty buckskin too. Another similar colored horse owned by a friend of mine.


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## Chiilaa

Both the horse posted by the OP and your friend's horse AF look brown based buckskin to me.


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## dizzee

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BreakableRider

Yup, both are smokey browns, or brown based buckskin if you will. 

IMO, sooty only expresses on a red base. Every bay horse, or a dilution of bay that i've been around that people have called sooty that i've had a chance to test comes back brown, not bay.

That's why on these 'sooty buckskins' the areas that have been lightened by cream are the same areas that would be a bit lighter on a brown, lighter flanks, back of the butt, around the face, inside of the legs etc.


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## Chiilaa

BreakableRider said:


> Yup, both are smokey browns, or brown based buckskin if you will.
> 
> IMO, sooty only expresses on a red base. Every bay horse, or a dilution of bay that i've been around that people have called sooty that i've had a chance to test comes back brown, not bay.
> 
> That's why on these 'sooty buckskins' the areas that have been lightened by cream are the same areas that would be a bit lighter on a brown, lighter flanks, back of the butt, around the face, inside of the legs etc.


I hold this exact theory!


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## westerensky

unique!! not sure about buckskin it looks like it has black down the back Dun maybe but definitely sooty


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

westerensky said:


> unique!! not sure about buckskin it looks like it has black down the back Dun maybe but definitely sooty


That horse is absolutely not dun. Dun is a completely separate dilution. It's a brown agouti instead of bay agouti plus cream. I also highly doubt this horse is sooty. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnalisaParalyzer

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Captain Evil

Do duns dapple?


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## Chiilaa

All colours can dapple  Dapples on a dun tend to be muted though, since the way dun dilutes the colour is by rearranging where the pigment goes on the hair shaft. That's why they have a flat tone to them.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing

My dunskin has dapples if you look closely they aren't loud but they are there 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Allison Finch

JethroOTTB said:


>


This description of sooty seems to fit this photo perfectly. The background of this horse just doesn't scream brown to me.

Sooty (gene - Ask.com Encyclopedia)

Pinterest describes this very horse as sooty buckskin!

http://www.pinterest.com/browniewhite/horse-color-galore-sooty-gene/


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## BreakableRider

^ It all depends on what you think of as brown and sooty bay. As I stated before, I personally have not ever seen a 'sooty' bay horse not test brown. IMO he's pretty classic smokey brown. 

BTW your ask.com link shows up as non existent. I wouldn't exactly take pinterest advice on color genetics either. Lots of people call smokey browns buckskin, same as lots of people still call dominant white sabino and have no idea what pearl is. It doesn't make smokey brown. dominant white or pearl not exist though. 

Heck so few people know about brown dilutes there isn't even a name for a brown double dilute besides what small circles are calling it.

I'm getting sidetracked, as I can't test him I went off searching. This lovely mare is very similar to him, besides being a bit darker overall. You can see that she has the same areas that have been darkened and the same areas that are lighter. She is a tested smokey brown. 










I'm not saying sooty doesn't exist I just think it's another thing restricted to red based horses. 










This horse for example is palomino.


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## Allison Finch

It pulls up on my computer, but not from the link I posted. I don't know why.

It shows a horse identically colored as both of the horses posted and says sooty buckskin.

I guess the bottom line is without testing, it may not be possible to tell.

BTW, follow the links on the error page and you will come to the page.


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## BreakableRider

IMO, once you look at enough horses that have been tested and your eye is trained there is a huge difference in phenotype between a buckskin and smokey brown. Just because it's called something by the masses doesn't make it so. People used to not even know that brown was different from bay.

For example what pattern would you call this horse?


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## Chiilaa

Allison Finch said:


> Pinterest describes this very horse as sooty buckskin!
> 
> Horse Color Galore: Sooty Gene


Alison, just a heads up in case you haven't used pinterest before. When you "pin" a picture, you write your own description for the picture you are pinning. So If I wanted to call this horse "burnt peaches colour", then pinterest would let me do that.


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## Chiilaa

I know I have been doubting if sooty has any expression on a black based horse too. Every horse I have seen that is "sooty bay" that has been tested, turns out to be brown. Additionally, why is it we accept that sooty "looks like soot has been dumped on the horse", but that it only does that on black based horses. Red based horses don't have any "rule" about sooty.


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## Chiilaa

I'm the kind of person who always gives a $5 answer to a 20c question lol.

Let's compare these pictures. I made a screen grab of the top images when I searched Google for "sooty horse". 

The first picture, I have left only the black based horses that are being described as "sooty". As you can see, the "sooty" expression on a black based horse tends to be also what the normal expression of "brown" is - black hard points (legs, mane tail etc), paler soft points (corner of the lip, around the eye, in the flank and so on) and varying shade of brown or black on the rest of the coat. We have several different black based colours here to see - there are browns, brown based buckskins, even a silver - and yet the expression of this "sooty" remains consistent despite this. IMO, sooty is not here, it is just varying expression of brown with some of them having other modifiers too.












Now, this second picture is the red based horses from the same search, with the black based horses blanked out. Here we can see huge range in the expression of sooty - some are on the legs, some on one area of the body, some on the mane alone. This is sooty.


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## Captain Evil

JethroOTTB said:


>


I know this is an older thread, but does anyone know who this particular horse is?


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## Chiilaa

Captain Evil said:


> I know this is an older thread, but does anyone know who this particular horse is?


I can't find any link. The photo is from pinterest, but no one has given any credit to either the photographer or the horse. And because it has been uploaded directly to pinterest, it can't be traced from there to its original source :-(


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