# What colour? Dun? Silver? Both?



## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

I wonder what my new icelandic yearlings color is..
The breed comes in any colour, so that's no help 

The auktion paper said ''silver yellow'', I don't know how right they were concidering the circumstanses, but silver isn't unlikely (pretty common in the breed as far as I've seen) and as far as I know, dun is also a regular icelndic colour? So it's not impossible that they've mixed, right?

I read this:


> Her color is the result of a black base coat diluted by both a dun dilute gene, and a silver dapple dilute gene. *_The silver dapple gene diluted the mane and tail to silver, but the dorsal stripe and other dun markings appear to remain relatively undiluted on this mare._ The body has been diluted by both the silver dapple gene and the dun gene, causing a pale body coat.
> Dun Central Station - Dun Plus Other Dilutions


The pictures is of silver and dun on a black base.. I wonder if they could come on a brown/dark base and if that could be Sólons colour?

Or is he just a light red dun?

Well.. see for yourselves  What do you think?

He has a light, thin stripe down the back and some leg markings, but fairly light legs, and the center of the mane and tail are dark. It's not very visible on the tail tho since it has so much light/white on it.




























I guess I get insecure about if its just a red dun because he's so light, and the dark in the mane and tail doesn't look red at all. (except the tip of the tail but I suspect that's bleached by..stuff) and then the silver-thing in the papers suggests that one of his parents were silver, or something. I dunno..

The both black-silver-duns they had pictures on looks like him except gray.. http://duncentralstation.com/DunOtherD/Misty-sdgrulla.jpg this one lacks a lot of the dark in the mane.. http://duncentralstation.com/DunOtherD/HolySmoke-KMSHA.jpg but this one has more of it and it's the same type of genes, so maybe Sólon is something in between? And then brown/chestnut/red/whatever brownish colour instead of black as a base?

Am I just making stuff extra difficult? Can he be just a light red dun or some other normal colour?


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## TabbyNeko (Aug 4, 2009)

Hmm...I've never seen a horse in that colour...he's very beautiful, by the way. 

He's definatly some color of dun, but I don't know what to name that!


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

I'm no help on colour but he's a pretty little guy. I love the multi-coloured mane and tail.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

How does this sound:

"Claybank dun - This is the dilute of the red dun. (chestnut + C+Ccr + Dd_). This dun ranges from pale straw to a yellow clay color, with darker legs. The primitive markings are golden or tan. The mane and tail are mostly cream or white, except where the dorsal stripe runs through. Due to this, claybank dun is known as palomino dun in Europe."

Taken from Horse Color Explained: A Breeder's Perspective. It's an Australian book... I'm not sure if the term "claybank" is used elsewhere.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Thanks 

Ponyboy: That sounds right!


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

..but does that result in a blackish center of the tail and mane?


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

We call that a Buttermilk Dun (or Buckskin) as in this colt: http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-162167


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Zab said:


> ..but does that result in a blackish center of the tail and mane?


Hmmm, not in the picture they have. Although, I used to ride a dilute dun Fjord horse and even though his primitive markings were very light the streak through his mane was still black.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

iridehorses: hmm. Sólon has way more white in his mane and tail (which is why I expect the silver/cream gene) and after what I've learnt, buckskin and dun is completely different colours, genetically 

ponyboy; yeah.. but does that make the fjord palomino dun or just say it has a different colour?


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

chestnut + C+Ccr + Dd_
What does those letters stand for? I'm not very good at genetics when they're not spelled out clearly x) and could chestnut be replaced with brown or bay? That could explain the dark mane and tail since those colors ''saves'' certain parts of the horse from being anything else than black.. like the mane and tail.. or am I way wrong?


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

OQ: Silver dun?


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

OQ?

Not sure if that was a question or a guess on the colour..but..
Silver dapple is perhaps whatyou call it? We just say silver.. it's the gene that makes the mane and tail on a black or brown horse white (if a black horse has white mane and tail ) Not sure if it's the same that's called flaxen on chestnuts or what.. >_> But I know that icelandics xome in a lot of silver colors.
So if dun can mix with a silver gene, like this article said.. and does that on a brown or bay base-colour.. it should look like Sólon..


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

I would say silver. And definately dun on a bay base. I'm thinking possibly cream as well, for a silver buckskin dun. Looks a lot like the silver buckskin mini I had, except she wasn't dun so she didn't have the primitive markings.


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

Honestly I'd say Dunalino or Silver Dunskin. But one of the parents would HAVE to have the creme gene. I don't suppose you have the papers do you? If he has them. Because while silver and dun can be pretty tricky to detect in some cases and silver doesn't show up on chestnuts it can look like it skips a generation. Creme really isn't that tricky though, so its usually on papers. This is not a black based horse, I can say that with a lot of confidence. Either bay or chestnut. Though I'm leaning more towards the bay side with Silver Dunskin. Dunalinos don't usually have dark primitive markings.

So I'm going with silver Dunskin


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

Sorry to double post but I found a Silver Dunskin Icelandic stud online:








Looks about right, yours is just lighter.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

His papers/passport are sent to the icelandics association for owner-registration  I only have half the pedigree tho, but he's born on iceland so he's a pure icelandic (they only have icelandics there).

Silver is very possible, I havn't seen his parents but silver is kinda normal there so.. 
I think he's silver+dun+brown/bay.. after my reading yesternight I figured his mane and tail has too much white to say buckskin/dunskin? Is there anything in his colour that say that he has the buckskin in him, because I think that silver+brown+dun seems right..
_______

Yeah, I know it's not a black base since he's notgray, but they didn't have pictures on any brownish base + silver+dun, so..


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Why does this matter? Just curiosity? (not meant in a nasty way)


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

His mane has too much white to be dunskin, but it is pretty much perfect for silver dunskin. Silver effects black hair and turns it light, and in some instinces practically white. I stand by silver dunskin. His body shade is perfect for buckskin. It's not the appropriate color to be brown/bay silver, it's too creme. Brown/bay silvers are reddish, because silver just effects the black. And he's not a black silver, he is not greyish hued as they are. I have to say silver dunskin, because of his body shade. Dunalino is a possibility, but I lean toward dunskin because of the darkness of the primitive markings.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Sunny: I want to know what colour he is and what to call it  Just curiosity and well..it's good to know? 

upsidedown: What's exactly a buckskin?
I know a dunskin is dun+buckskin(?) but what makes a buckskin?


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## Sunny06 (Jun 22, 2009)

Got it 

I say silver dun. Duns have points right?


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

Buckskin = creme + bay. Haha and bay actually = agouti + black, but we use it as a base coat anyway.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

hmmm...
Makes sense. The 'silver yellow (_swedish translation_)'' in the papers might very well be ''silver+creme" to imply that he has both of them..


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

Could be. You'd probably know better than me.  my Swedish is a bit rusty.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Blergh, all of you people are too bad with swedish xD Forces me to learn weird english horse color names x)

So then he's a silver dunskin..? Sounds cool at least xD


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Zab said:


> chestnut + C+Ccr + Dd_
> What does those letters stand for?


Ccr is the cream gene (cremello). C+Ccr means heterozygous I THINK. (Don't ask me, I'm just quoting the book lol).

The Dd_ should actually have been DD_ which means the dun gene is activated. The _ at the end means it could be hetero- or ****- zygous... Again I THINK.

But now I think other people are right, he's more likely to be silver dun.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am with Iride, I would call him a buttermilk dun. He is definitely a cutie regardless of what color you call him.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

upsidedown said:


> This is not a black based horse, I can say that with a lot of confidence. Either bay or chestnut.


 
Bay IS black based  All colors are either black based or red based.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

CheyAut said:


> Bay IS black based  All colors are either black based or red based.


I think it was meant as a dun on a black base, which gives a grey horse 
(now this is really confusing for me xD dun=''black'' in swedish, and black is comletely different..uhm..)


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

smrobs said:


> I am with Iride, I would call him a buttermilk dun. He is definitely a cutie regardless of what color you call him.


But isn't that the same as a silver dunskin then? :3
I've learnt that at least one of his parents does have the creme-gene.. and that he probably has silver as well not too far back at all.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

ponyboy said:


> Ccr is the cream gene (cremello). C+Ccr means heterozygous I THINK. (Don't ask me, I'm just quoting the book lol).
> 
> The Dd_ should actually have been DD_ which means the dun gene is activated. The _ at the end means it could be hetero- or ****- zygous... Again I THINK.
> 
> But now I think other people are right, he's more likely to be silver dun.


Ah, thanks


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Actually wait.. Since cremello is an incomplete dominant, C+Ccr would mean a single dilute (palomino or buckskin). Strangely enough the + sign means the gene is turned off.


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

Zab said:


> Blergh, all of you people are too bad with swedish xD Forces me to learn weird english horse color names x)
> 
> So then he's a silver dunskin..? Sounds cool at least xD


 
I'm tryin' Zab! It is hard though when you're an old lady to learn a new language - until recently, the only swedish I knew was swearing  lol

He's a yearling, right? He'll probably darken up just a little bit. I think the yellow - silver on the papers means as you thought - cream & silver. Are you getting the rest of his papers? Or is it lost forever because of the auction? They may have it on there(if you can get them). His coloring does look quite a bit like the fjord colors.

can you tell me what it says in the native language? Maybe that would help... or not, just curious.


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## ChexMix1000 (Mar 29, 2009)

Buttermilk dun. My neighbor's broodmare is a Mustang/AQH and she looks EXACTLY like that.


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Qtswede said:


> I'm tryin' Zab! It is hard though when you're an old lady to learn a new language - until recently, the only swedish I knew was swearing  lol
> 
> He's a yearling, right? He'll probably darken up just a little bit. I think the yellow - silver on the papers means as you thought - cream & silver. Are you getting the rest of his papers? Or is it lost forever because of the auction? They may have it on there(if you can get them). His coloring does look quite a bit like the fjord colors.
> 
> can you tell me what it says in the native language? Maybe that would help... or not, just curious.


XD At least you try 

I have the papers (or will get) but parts of his parents are unknown (it's ok since he's born on iceland) and the known ones don't have much colour information on them. But creme, dun and silver seems confirmed.. he's registered as ''creme brown'' tho so tht's not rifght.. :3

What is in what language? x)


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## Qtswede (Apr 16, 2009)

I was just wondering what they had it listed as in Icelandic. I found a list of Icelandic colors, and it has descriptions etc... in Icelandic to English. Like it said Palomino = Leirljós, Ljósa 
along those lines. Nothing crazy.


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

CheyAut said:


> Bay IS black based  All colors are either black based or red based.


I aknowledged that in a previous post that bay was just agouti on black, but we were talking in terms of dun and creme and what I meant was he was not a smokey black or grulla - not black based dun or creme. Therefore a bay base. It makes much more sense to me to refer to bay as a base, even though I am aware it is not. 

If one of his parents is creme and silver is not so far off and very common in icelandics so his unknown relatives probably carry it too. So I definetly still say silver dunskin. 

I'll work on my Swedish after my German as my sister is going to live there for 3 years and I'd like to visit. Haha but I promise Swedish will be what I work on next!


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Qtswede said:


> I was just wondering what they had it listed as in Icelandic. I found a list of Icelandic colors, and it has descriptions etc... in Icelandic to English. Like it said Palomino = Leirljós, Ljósa
> along those lines. Nothing crazy.


No, not that I know.. x)


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

upsidedown said:


> I'll work on my Swedish after my German as my sister is going to live there for 3 years and I'd like to visit. Haha but I promise Swedish will be what I work on next!


They know swedish in germany 
We tried english when we were there, pretty useless.. >_> so we talked to each other in swedish and the lady (who had a hotel we were going to stay on) answered us in swedish xD


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## upsidedown (Jul 10, 2008)

When we went to look at the place she was going they all spoke English to me and if I tried to speak German they would respond in English, trying to be nice but I wanted to practice so it was kind of annoying. But I was struggling so I guess they stopped me from embarresing myself.


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## sixlets (May 1, 2009)

I would guess dunalino, which I'm pretty sure is a champagne base with the dun gene


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## Whispering Meadows (Apr 30, 2009)

upsidedown said:


> Sorry to double post but I found a Silver Dunskin Icelandic stud online:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This looks like about the same color which I would say is correct.

I dont know if this is against forum rules or not but there are people on this forum horsegroomingsupplies that are like color EXPERTS!!


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## nw0rd (Aug 12, 2009)

*nickel*

Dun is such a beutiful color. Mine is Dun and i am abolutely in love with it

- Jamile:-o


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

sixlets said:


> I would guess dunalino, which I'm pretty sure is a champagne base with the dun gene


 
Nope, champagne is a whole 'nother color completely 
Dunalino is dun on a palomino.


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## Domino13011 (Aug 10, 2009)

pretty boy


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

could he have fjord????


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Fjord? He's a purebred icelandic horse imported from iceland  So no, no fjord..
Fjords are dun tho in different variations..


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## Rissa (Feb 10, 2009)

Kinda looks like Ethan.


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## Sissimut-icehestar (Jan 20, 2008)

Is he registered with Worldfengur? I do believe that the horse's colour is in that registration.

But personally I would call him "Ljósbleikur/Ljósfífilbleikur", but I did have to think for a while. He's not as red as a horse of the same colour at my stables.
I know of a book that goes through almost every icy colour, and I'll probably be going to the library that has it soon, so I can let you know if I find it in there :wink:


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## Zab (Oct 4, 2008)

Rissa: yeah, with way more white 

Sissi: He is, but he'äs registerd as ''gulbrun'' ''yellow-brown''.. and I don't think that's right at all :3 I don't have access tio it myself but others have looked for me.


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