# ewe neck?



## Rodeo1998

I was looking through a old horse magazine that I have and I saw an article on ewe necks. After I read through the article I went and looked at the pictures of my horse on my phone and It seemed as though she as a ewe neck. The thing is when I first got her she was rather plump so we started to work her a lot more and when she started to slim down a slight dish in her neck appeared that wasn't there before. Does she have a ewe neck or am I going crazy? If she does what does that mean? Will she ever be a good barrel horse, I read online that the ewe neck is one of the worst problems a horse could have. Can it be fixed? Here are some pictures for reference. The first two are of the week we brought her home and the last two are from a couple days ago. Thanks in advance!


----------



## smrobs

No, I don't consider her to have a ewe neck. She's got a short neck that ties in low and, now that she's trimmed down, it's rather thin. With the low tie-in, whenever she picks her head up above level, then it can give the _appearance_ of a ewe neck, but the underlying structure doesn't show one.

Take this little filly for example. She's got a pretty prominent ewe neck and it's apparent even when her topline is somewhat level.
See how the lower part of her neck is rather bulgy?









Then, if she picks her head up....whew, ugly.


----------



## Tryst

I don't see a ewe neck on the OP horse either. She almost doesn't look like the same horse now as when she was very chunky!

To me this horse has a ewe neck -> http://www.aphelionart.com/CFK-Year...e Niduna f Signature F r/slides/07JG2514.html. Yes she has it up, but that bulge at the front is there even when it is held more neutral.


----------



## stevenson

i would not call it an ewe neck, but she could use a little bit of weight.


----------



## tinyliny

your horse is very downhill in build. and it looks like the way she is moving, she may be leaving her hind legs out behind her, hollowing out her back and raising her head while bracing against the bit, or perhaps, a tie down? she has the bulge of the lower neck, and the dip in front of the withers, that are hallmarks of such a movement habit.
her front hooves look long, too.


----------



## Yogiwick

My horse has an "ewe neck" but it's really just muscling like tiny lily said.


----------



## tinyliny

why does everyone call me "tiny LILY" sounds like some wee little Chinese maiden with bound feet!

it's "Tiny LINY".


----------



## Rodeo1998

Thank you all for the helpful replies. She dosnt really hold her head high when we are riding, atleast not that i notice. And what exactly is bracing against the bit? I've heard of it but I've never really understood it. On the long hooves note, she just got them trimmed the other day so she is fine now. Thank you again!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tryst

Bracing is when a horse tightens or tenses it's neck muscles to resist, instead of being soft and flexible with them. Sometimes it is tensing against the rider's hands and sometimes against a mechanical device (tie down, etc.).

Picture if someone grabbed your arm and you tightened all of your muscles to prevent them from moving it. That is bracing, but in the case of the horse it is the neck muscles. It causes strange muscle development because they are constantly tensing against the bit or tie-down.


----------



## Zexious

I don't see an ewe neck on your horse, OP.
But, neither has anyone else xD


----------



## Elana

Your horse has a neck that ties in low at the chest and below the withes and it is a short neck but not a ewe neck.

Your horse is VERY down hill.. and this will make collection before the turn on a barrel much more difficult for her. I have attached her photo with some lines. 

In the photo her hind feet are closer to the camera than her front feet.. and the line from rear to front feet goes up hill. If she were level, the line from point of buttock to root of neck would be uphill due the the horse being at an angle to the camera. In spite of that angle, the line from point of buttock to root of neck is still down hill. You can also see her down hill build in that her knees are much lower than her hocks (most horses they are a little lower.. this horse is at the extreme edge of normal). 

She is a bit straight through the hock so she may have trouble reaching under her with her hind leg and driving out of the turn to the next barrel where you make up time. Her coupling is a bit long and her peak of croup is very high. Her neck set is low.. but it is not ewe. 

She looks like her feet need doing.. a bit long in the toe..


----------



## Rodeo1998

She dosnt really brace against the bit then, she responds well to my ques and never fights it. She can really get her butt under her and turns on a dime and she's really learning to collect quite well. Is there a way to fix the downhill build? (Again on the long hooves she just got them done so she is just fine now!)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tryst

She will always be downhill. How old is she?

Can you have someone take video of her under saddle? Despite it feeling like she is using herself correctly her muscle says otherwise. If she was using her abdominal muscles correctly and working off of her hind end then she would have a more muscled croup and topline (they appear fairly hollowed out right now) and the top muscle of her neck would be stronger than the bottom one. She is built in a manner that will make it tricky for her to work off the hind end, as others have said.


----------



## Rodeo1998

She is six years old
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tryst

Then she is pretty much done growing and will not become more level. She will always be significantly downhill in her build.


----------



## Rodeo1998

Ok that's fine. It's not really that big of a deal to me, I just find it interesting. I haven't found that her build has effected her movement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Endiku

Well either way...kudos to you for putting her on a major diet O_O that was one FAT mare!

It sure is interesting to see how body condition changes the appearance of a horse though. The bone structure is still the same but she looks so different.


----------



## Yogiwick

tinyliny said:


> why does everyone call me "tiny LILY" sounds like some wee little Chinese maiden with bound feet!
> 
> it's "Tiny LINY".


 Teehee sorry! I think I tend to assume unless it's a super weird name and I have to look closely. It is Tiny Liny! :shock:


----------



## Rodeo1998

Endiku said:


> Well either way...kudos to you for putting her on a major diet O_O that was one FAT mare!
> 
> It sure is interesting to see how body condition changes the appearance of a horse though. The bone structure is still the same but she looks so different.




Yes she was extreamly fat she wasnt ridden or a year and she was on a only hay/pasture diet when she was with her old owners but when we got her we put her on a scoop of 11% sweet feed and exersised her every day, now she is the perfect weight
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rodeo1998

Tryst said:


> She will always be downhill. How old is she?
> 
> Can you have someone take video of her under saddle? Despite it feeling like she is using herself correctly her muscle says otherwise. If she was using her abdominal muscles correctly and working off of her hind end then she would have a more muscled croup and topline (they appear fairly hollowed out right now) and the top muscle of her neck would be stronger than the bottom one. She is built in a manner that will make it tricky for her to work off the hind end, as others have said.


 I will get a video when I am able to ride again, as she is healing from a deep hock wound which as abscessed.


----------



## PixiTrix

tinyliny said:


> why does everyone call me "tiny LILY" sounds like some wee little Chinese maiden with bound feet!
> 
> it's "Tiny LINY".


Haha I've always read it as Tiny Lily too, I wonder why? It's like an optical illusion or something lol


----------



## SlideStop

Rodeo1998 said:


> Yes she was extreamly fat she wasnt ridden or a year and she was on a only hay/pasture diet when she was with her old owners but when we got her we put her on a scoop of 11% sweet feed and exersised her every day, now she is the perfect weight
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wait a minute... You took her off of an all hay diet and put her on one scoop of sweet feed?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rodeo1998

SlideStop said:


> Wait a minute... You took her off of an all hay diet and put her on one scoop of sweet feed?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I slowly increaced the sweet feed intake, its not like I gave her an entire scoop of sweet feed as soon as she arrived home. I slowly lowered the amount of hay she was used to eating and then I introduced her to sweet feed. Don't worry I knew what I was doing.


----------



## SlideStop

Rodeo1998 said:


> I slowly increaced the sweet feed intake, its not like I gave her an entire scoop of sweet feed as soon as she arrived home. I slowly lowered the amount of hay she was used to eating and then I introduced her to sweet feed. Don't worry I knew what I was doing.


Is she getting hay or grass at all?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rodeo1998

SlideStop said:


> Is she getting hay or grass at all?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, she currently has free access to a round bale when she is in the pasture and when I turn her in she gets one flake of hay and a scoop of grain.


----------



## alexischristina

Just curious... what was your reason for adding SWEET FEED to her diet?


----------



## Binder

No her neck is fine. It is short, but she doesn't have a ewe kneck. She looks in fine condition!


----------



## spirit88

Rodeo1998 said:


> I slowly increaced the sweet feed intake, its not like I gave her an entire scoop of sweet feed as soon as she arrived home. I slowly lowered the amount of hay she was used to eating and then I introduced her to sweet feed. Don't worry I knew what I was doing.



Glad your feeding hay now but you cant just feed a horse sweet feed and no hay or grass. No you dont know what your doing if you only feed grain and no hay.

No shes not ewe necked.Horses need hay or grass 24/7 or they will have ulcers.


----------



## smrobs

I'm also wondering about the reasoning behind feeding sweet feed, especially to such an easy keeper. That's basically candy coated junk food for horses.....

She needs something that's more nutritionally balanced.

I'm going to put this out there and you can either take it or leave it. She has lost a _lot_ of muscle mass. IMHO, that first picture of her, standing in the stall, was close to an ideal weight for her body type. At that point, she could have been perfect with the same diet but a better exercise regimen. As she is now, she appears to be "drawn up" in her flanks and she's lacking overall muscle tone.


----------



## SlideStop

smrobs said:


> I'm also wondering about the reasoning behind feeding sweet feed, especially to such an easy keeper. That's basically candy coated junk food for horses.....
> 
> She needs something that's more nutritionally balanced.
> 
> I'm going to put this out there and you can either take it or leave it. She has lost a _lot_ of muscle mass. IMHO, that first picture of her, standing in the stall, was close to an ideal weight for her body type. At that point, she could have been perfect with the same diet but a better exercise regimen. As she is now, she appears to be "drawn up" in her flanks and she's lacking overall muscle tone.


I 1000% agree. She just doesnt look healthy in the after pics. The before pictures she looked a bit on the chunky side, but not obese. A little more exercise or a grazing muzzle for a few hours would of probably suited her just fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## spirit88

smrobs said:


> I'm also wondering about the reasoning behind feeding sweet feed, especially to such an easy keeper. That's basically candy coated junk food for horses.....
> 
> She needs something that's more nutritionally balanced.
> 
> I'm going to put this out there and you can either take it or leave it. She has lost a _lot_ of muscle mass. IMHO, that first picture of her, standing in the stall, was close to an ideal weight for her body type. At that point, she could have been perfect with the same diet but a better exercise regimen. As she is now, she appears to be "drawn up" in her flanks and she's lacking overall muscle tone.


I also agree the drawn up look is probley from lack of hay. She doesnt look healthy at all now its called poor diet. All she needed was some exercise to muscle her up and she would of been perfect looking. Last pics she looks not good at all.


----------



## Merlot

smrobs said:


> I'm also wondering about the reasoning behind feeding sweet feed, especially to such an easy keeper. That's basically candy coated junk food for horses.....
> 
> She needs something that's more nutritionally balanced.
> 
> I'm going to put this out there and you can either take it or leave it. She has lost a _lot_ of muscle mass. IMHO, that first picture of her, standing in the stall, was close to an ideal weight for her body type. At that point, she could have been perfect with the same diet but a better exercise regimen. As she is now, she appears to be "drawn up" in her flanks and she's lacking overall muscle tone.


So glad you said this smrobs, I felt exactly the same way about this horse, she does not look well to me. And, as the others are saying 24/7 hay is a must!!!


----------



## Yogiwick

Rodeo1998 said:


> Yes, she currently has free access to a round bale when she is in the pasture and when I turn her in she gets one flake of hay and a scoop of grain.



I think it's good if we carefully read all OP's responses and make sure we know the whole story before jumping on her..

Horse was on a diet when she first arrived and is now on maintenance. I do agree there are better things than sweet feed out there, but the horse has access to plenty of hay..


----------



## Merlot

oops you're right Yogiwick. I had not read that far back...MY BAD! However I do still think this horse needs much more weight on - she actually looked in good nick in the first photos. That is her build.


----------



## Yogiwick

I agree that the first pic posted of her in the stall looks "overweight" but close to ideal, just needs a diet and some work, nothing drastic. I would swap the sweet feed to something better and give her an extra flake or two at night. As I was (attempting) to say in another thread I feel a lot of bulky horses can technically be at a "good weight" but when added food they will bulk up _and then_ get fat. I think OP gave her a needed diet, but that she needs more food to maintain her natural build (without being fat!), as is she is a "good weight" but not "good condition". This isn't a horse that is meant to be lean.

There is (for some horses) skinny - lean - bulky (healthy for this type, drafty or stocky horse) THEN fat, as opposed to say skinny - lean/average - fat. That there is much more of a separation of body types and needed feed than the "other" horses. I went through this with my Icelandic, where she looked healthy and wasn't skinny but looked like little delicate pony as opposed to a stocky hairy Viking horse  So "good weight" isn't necessarily everything.

Sorry for rambling, I haven't found a good way to explain myself yet!


----------



## Rodeo1998

I have always fed sweet feed and Im not going to change that unless I really think she needs that. She is at the weight that I want her to be and the vet even said so, and he said that she was on the right diet. I never said that she wasn't fed hay. In the summer when we are doing heavy workouts and rodeoing she is fed TWO flakes of hay at night along with her scoop of grain. Now that winter is here and we aren't riding her anymore she only gets one flake of hay at night, and when she is in the pasture throughout the day she as access to two round bales. She is a very healthy horse, I will assure you that.


----------



## muumi

Sweet feed is not a healthy choice. Perhaps replace it with a ration balancer. You'll see the difference very soon. Look at how dull and staring her coat is, even though it's a winter coat, she does not look healthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rodeo1998

muumi said:


> Sweet feed is not a healthy choice. Perhaps replace it with a ration balancer. You'll see the difference very soon. Look at how dull and staring her coat is, even though it's a winter coat, she does not look healthy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What is a ration balancer? I've heard of it but never looked into it. Do I feed it with my current grain or is it one that is fed completely alone?


----------



## muumi

Here is an old thread that explains it well: 
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-health/what-ration-balancer-where-can-you-16182/

I would replace the sweet feed completely, and just feed a ration balancer and lots of hay, which I believe you do already. If she is an easy keeper, she may not need anything else. The great thing about a ration balancer is that is contains minerals and nutritional elements that the horse may not find in it's grazing, hay or grain. Sweet feed is not very nutritional at all, and although it will keep the horse going, she will probably be lacking in nutrition.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## muumi

I may be completely wrong, but I would even venture to say that with a balanced diet alone, this horse's top line and muscle tone may improve enough to make her neck look less weird, which is what had you worried. In her 'before' pics, although chubby, she looks healthy and has a nice neck topline, if I can call it that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

