# PLEASE ensure your round pen is REALLY safe!!



## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

OK after a bit of a disaster a couple of days ago in which I suspect my TB may have caused herself a hairline fracture in her neck, I have been busily repairing my round pen... but I feel that it's important to let people know about this danger in apparently safe round pens!!

Firstly, this is my round pen:





As you can see, it's made of very thick posts (these are usually used to hang gates and to set the tension on high-tensile wire fences) and rails. It's a very good round pen and I used it for over a year, with horses from 12hh to 16.2hh and temperaments from quiet to troubled, with no issues.

However, a couple of days ago, I was round penning my filly, and she decided she wasn't going to go in the direction I was asking. I blocked off her option to go forward, allowing her the option to turn around or cut through the middle of the round pen. She took neither, instead trying to jump out, but took off far too close and couldn't get the height in time. She caught her front legs and went over the top, breaking one of those huge posts. And, like I said, I suspect she may have a hairline fracture in one of her neck vertebrae - either C1 or C2, the swelling and heat is very close to her head.

What is wrong with this round pen is that the fence is not tall enough, so she thought she physically COULD jump out, and the round pen itself is not large enough at only around 22ft diameter. It's the perfect size for ponies, and a large horse can w/t/c in it in a balanced manner, but it's too small for a large horse that's in panic mode.

So please PLEASE ensure your round pen is fenced with strong fencing at least 7 foot high, and is at least 50 feet in diameter. My girl could very easily have died the other day... I would hate for this to happen to someone else. Magic and I were incredibly lucky that it wasn't worse, and every time there is an accident similar to this there is a very high chance of serious injury or even death for the poor horse involved.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

blue eyed pony said:


> So please PLEASE ensure your round pen is fenced with strong fencing at least 7 foot high, and is at least 50 feet in diameter.


I disagree. Round pens do not need to be seven feet high. ANY daylight will allow a horse in flight mode to think it run can through or jump over. These things happen and it is unfortunate.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yes - but they're less likely to flip over the top of it and land on their head/neck :/


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Honestly, with the price of lumber I think it would have cheaper to buy metal round pen panels. I'm so sorry that your TB got hurt. Do your horses get to spend any time in the round pen besides training? Mine do, and they are VERY comfortable eating in it AND training/riding in my square 55 x 65' training area. Perhaps some time spent getting your horse relaxed in your round pen would help prevent this from happening again. Still, I'm VERY sorry for your accident--wouldn't wish harm on ANYBODY's horse. **hugs**


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

My TB lived in that round pen for nearly a week, Corporal, because she came to me nearly untouchable. Had I put her in a stall she would have gone insane, had I put her in a pasture I would never have been able to touch her again. She was totally relaxed with the idea of being in the round pen.

I pushed when I should have backed off, and I didn't push hard, just closed off the option of forward while making sure she could turn around or cut across the round pen easily... but her panic that I would beat her for her "disobedience" made her unable to think, and I think she saw the possibility of escape over the round pen fence before she could think about a less risky way.

She DID go over the "weak link" in my round pen fence, which is a big farm gate that is actually stronger/more solid than any other part of the round pen but doesn't LOOK as substantial...

I have decided I am going to save up for enough portable panels to build a lovely big round pen. We don't own the property or we would have ripped out the current round pen and replaced it with a bigger one, but portable panels are an ideal solution because we can take them with us if/when we move.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am sorry that your horse got hurt, but I have to agree with mls. Anywhere daylight can be seen is a place where a panicked horse will look for an exit. IMHO, unless you are consistently riding really tall horses (like 17hh+), I honestly don't see the need for a 7 foot roundpen. Taking the time needed to help get the horse comfortable before pushing on them can help to prevent a lot of the escape attempts. My roundpen fence is 6' tall, heavy duty pipe panels and I've only ever had one horse try to go through it(not over it). She ended up just knocking a couple of panels down with no injury to herself.

So long as the fence is tall enough where the horse can't easily get their head over it, they generally won't try to jump it. Truthfully, yours doesn't look any taller than 5 feet at the most, though it is likely closer to 4 or 4.5. Along that same line, I'm not a fan of fences that are made from 1-2 rails only. IME, it seems like the more space there is between the rails, the less substantial the fence looks (regardless of how strong the posts are), and the more horses think they have a change of getting out through it. IMHO, a fence is more of a blind than anything. Generally speaking, it doesn't have to be all that strong, it just has to make the horse think "There's no way I'd get through that".

You see, here is a huge difference in a fence as tall as yours and a fence as tall as mine


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Again, SORRY that your TB got hurt. I agree with the panels being portable. I'm using 3 and a gate for a 12 x 12 stall in my barn right now. I don't get how these horses get sold practically wild, like your description. IMO, she was probably gonna hurt you or herself that day--GLAD it wasn't you!!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

She likely will be over 17hh. Horses from her sire are known to be late maturers, and she's already very nearly 16hh. Plus, better too much than not enough... JMO.

If 7 foot is over the top, and no horse will attempt to jump something taller than their head, then what about a horse, whose owner I know online, who you can't keep in with an 8 foot fence? Never any fence damage, fence is mesh, horse is never injured, and gates are never open. Unless said mare jumps the gates, but I don't know anyone who would bother with an 8 foot high fence and only have a 4 foot high gate (4 foot is about standard height for a farm gate here)...

ETA; she wasn't close to me when she flipped, I was in no danger at all of getting hurt, and she had nothing on her head with which she could pull me, or with which I could attempt to control her. I very rarely have anything on their heads with them in the round pen, and have never had an issue before now. Nobody has bothered to test it, except the buckskin filly when she was still small enough to fit between the rails.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I didn't say that no horse with _ever_ attempt it, I said they _usually_ don't. It simply isn't in their nature to try to jump things taller than their head can easily reach. But, you do occasionally find a horse that is determined to do everything against their nature.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

True, yes, true.

I want that mare as a showjumper, but her owner loves her way too much to sell her and she's like 19 now and never been trained in SJ so it's not likely!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I forgot to mention - she came to me from the man who bought her (as a racing prospect) from her breeder... and TB people here don't handle their horses much if at all until they're ready to race. Magic is actually unusually well-handled, for a 2yo unraced unbroke TB that hasn't been fully registered, only foal recorded. It's pretty common for them to come to people completely wild, never even been halter broke. Especially the ones from sires that don't produce winners, like my girl. It's strange considering the bloodlines but Hartley's Spirit has not produced one single race winner.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Horses can kill themselves in many different situations. My round pen is made of 4 rail steel pipes and is not quite 6 ft tall. I've had horses try to jump out of it, jump through the bars, crawl under the bars and even had a foal or 2, accidentally roll underneath them and not be able to figure out how to get back IN to momma. 

I've seen horses try to scale a 10 ft high wall in a solid bull pen, seen them go crashing head first into the walls when they decide to really try to escape. 

99% of the time, the handler is the one who pushes too hard on the horse. As handlers we need to learn when to back off and take some of the pressure off. With young foals and weaners, yearlings and 2 year olds, we really need to learn to read their body language. Occasionally, there is the horse where nothing works, but that's a whole 'nuther story. 

Even when the handler pushes a little too hard and the horse does something stupid, it turns out ok most of the time. I'm sorry you think your horse has broken vertebrae, if my horse had swelling and heat on her neck, I'd take her to the vet for a check up. If she's not broken, then time and a chiro can probably fix the problem.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

7ft. seems a bit much for me....we have the regular metal panels and theyre what 5-6ft. our horses do fine with them. our round pen is over 60ft. in diameter so plenty of room for my 16.3 geldings and my 15hh mares. 

horses will try anything. theylll try to go straight through it...one mare i used to have (14hh) tried to go straight through it. she literally lowered her head and just rammed it. so whether its tall enough or what it just depends on the horse. imo


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## eclipseranch (May 31, 2012)

height has been debated in the thread but my concern is the diameter..22feet makes it tight and difficult even for a seasoned horse to bend around..I'm sorry your kid went over the top but I'm real glad flight was chosen & not fight because those are some close quarters for a handler to stay safe!

when I first got one of my geldings he went over an indoor wall..he wasn't trying to jump it..he just didn't navigate the turn well and earned the name Wall--E for a while..lol
I do understand how scary that must of been..glad neither of you got hurt


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## RacingAustralia (Aug 7, 2012)

blue eyed pony said:


> I forgot to mention - she came to me from the man who bought her (as a racing prospect) from her breeder... and TB people here don't handle their horses much if at all until they're ready to race. Magic is actually unusually well-handled, for a 2yo unraced unbroke TB that hasn't been fully registered, only foal recorded. It's pretty common for them to come to people completely wild, never even been halter broke. Especially the ones from sires that don't produce winners, like my girl. It's strange considering the bloodlines but Hartley's Spirit has not produced one single race winner.


Hi there,

Hartly's Spirit actually throws all over the place in regards to height. Majority of his foals mature between 15hh and ~16hh with colts/geldings mostly making up the taller horses. You may find 17hh will be stretching it and unlikely. 

Most thoroughbreds are halter trained and well handled, especially ones from this stud. They do need to be manageable from a young age as the must stand somewhat pleasant for the vet to be registered and for if/when they go to sale. It is very uncommon that they aren't well handled before seeing a breaker. 

You will find that if your horse has been DNA tested, assigned a life number and
Microchipped it is registered just unnamed. Again it's not uncommon for a thoroughbred to go unnamed right up until its ready for it's first trial. A lot will go to a pretrainer be in full work and go out for spell again before getting a race name. 

As for Hartley's Spirit not producing a single winner this comment is completely untrue. There have been a few winners, most notably Can't Hartley Wait. His stud fee wouldn't be as high as it is if he had no winners. 

It would be greatly appreciated if you could please not spread false misleading information as it can hurt the business of the stud. 

Cheers.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I was just repeating what I was told, RA. And, when describing my girl to people, I was told it wasn't uncommon for them to be that wild or wilder. I was also told, when I asked why she was free, that her sire hadn't produced any winners, so Magic wasn't worth bothering with as a racing prospect.

I was told that my girl had a full brother who is 17.1 but I'm not sure how "full" said brother is because I looked around in the online studbook and my girl is the only foal there out of her dam, so if a full sibling exists he is not registered. I say this because I am well aware that the online studbook has consistent records back to about 2003 and the sire is recorded as having been born in '03 so it's not possible for a full sibling to have been born before that date.

Like I said, Magic is actually pretty well handled, but when I first got her she was nearly untouchable. I did not buy her from the stud, I was given her by a man who purchased her as a racing prospect, and was told she was free to a good performance home (unbroke and untried) because her bloodlines were slow. In particular the sire's get.

So I am sorry if I was repeating untrue information but perhaps it would be wiser to take it up with the previous owner because he is who my information has come from.


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## RacingAustralia (Aug 7, 2012)

Hi again,

The full brother is registered and has so far won $900. He is not 17.1hh. 

Some of your 'information' can be seen as slander against the stud, breeder and previous owner. You are posting hearsay online. It has been asked nicely that you don't do this. We do not need to take anything up with the owner as it is you online spreading false information that can be seen. It is not good business to accuse an owner of slander etc without proof and hearsay is not valid proof. 
We are simply asking that you only post things you know about your horse for fact not the things you have been told, that can not prove, and may be seen in a negative way against the stud/breeder and/or previous owner. For example comments on the stallion not producing winners etc. 

Cheers.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Would you mind explaining to me why he doesn't show up in the studbook then? (under mare's progeny, have looked under unnamed progeny and my girl is the only one there, and have looked under named progeny and nothing shows up)

Some very odd things going on with this horse and what I have been told about her...


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## RacingAustralia (Aug 7, 2012)

Confirming your horse is by Hartley's Spirit from Virelay as stated in another of your posts, the full brother shows up perfectly fine. Named and registered. Perhaps you do not have full access to the stud book.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yep, she is, and maybe that's why, but idk why I would be able to find my girl (unnamed progeny, branded CM5 and 5 over 0) and not the full brother? Doesn't make sense to me...


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## RacingAustralia (Aug 7, 2012)

You must have full stud book access to view named produce from a mare or stallion. Otherwise you have to look each horse up by name. You can look up a mares unnamed produce without full access.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

So my girl is the only unnamed foal from that mare, does that mean all the others (if there are more than just her and her full sibling) went on to race? Sounds like the mare isn't a bad producer, considering I've heard of mares the same age with 3 or 4 unnamed foals that never made it to trials. Or more.


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## RacingAustralia (Aug 7, 2012)

All it means is that other produce, in this case 1 gelding, were named. Doesn't make the mare proven producer. 
As for the rest of your comment, again hearsay.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Wow, would have expected a '99 mare to have had more than just two foals, unless she raced to a late age. But I don't know much about the processes involved with breeding TB's to race...

edit to add; I do know of a mare that was for sale a couple of years ago that had had 7 to race for 6 winners, no idea how many she actually produced but that's a pretty nice winners to runners ratio. I wouldn't mind a 6/7 chance of a winner.


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## RockyTrails (Jan 28, 2013)

*Additionally*



blue eyed pony said:


> OK after a bit of a disaster a couple of days ago in which I suspect my TB may have caused herself a hairline fracture in her neck, I have been busily repairing my round pen... but I feel that it's important to let people know about this danger in apparently safe round pens!!
> 
> Firstly, this is my round pen:
> Magic being easy to catch - YouTube
> ...



I know this thread is old and am only adding this info for the sake of those who happen to read it.

I come from old school ranch background and build my round pens a minimum 60' round and 8' tall with an outward slant on walls and solid 2x12 walls with no gaps, with telephone pole posts. Also build gate same height and solid so horse cannot see outside pen. Put a lean of about 6" top to bottom on walls so horse cannot drag your leg on fence and if they do try jumping it will not injure itself as easily on a sloped wall. Also rubber trailer mats on bottom of walls prevents Horse leg scrape injuries. You can never know what a horse has on it's mind. It sometimes takes very little to spook it into attempting to fly like a barn cat running through the pen. even a bird flying past.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

RT, that's my ideal, it's not always possible in the room/budget available but it's what I wish I had.

Thankfully Magic is fine, 5 months on, and isn't quite so reactive any more, but I'm still counting my lucky stars that she's ok. It was horrible to see and I hope never to have to watch an accident like that again.


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## RockyTrails (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm glad to hear that she is well. Yes proper round pens can be pricey to build but can save Horses lives by removing the temptation to jump over or run thru the wall, Also safer for the human. Price can be significantly lowered by asking electric utility companies for their old poles that are damaged that have been replaced.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

That is a fantastic idea - will have to look into it. Unfortunately we're only renting, we don't own the property, so Mum wants a panel pen instead so we can take it with us when we move. The area is probably going to be subdivided into smaller lots eventually, so we will have to one of these days. Perhaps if we line it with conveyor belt rubber... because for most horses, it only has to LOOK solid and they won't pick a fight with it...?

Not that I intend to have another difficult horse again any time soon, it's just nice to have a proper round pen.


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## RockyTrails (Jan 28, 2013)

Yes Conveyor belt material hung from the top rail of panels would help. or sheets of plywood attached to the panels would work also. Even attaching blue or gray plastic tarps to the panels as long as they do not flap in the wind will work too. They make it difficult for horse to see outside pen and focus horses attention on you and the training.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

sounds like that may be a plan then. Just have to get the money together for the panels, and delivery [that's going to be pricey, the people who make them are 2 1/2 hours away, and we can't pick them up], and whatever we line it with to make it impossible to see out of.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm not even sure where you can buy 7 foot panels 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

you get them made to order. Or if you're savvy with a welder, buy the metal, and weld them together yourself.

Given the choice I would prefer RT's 8' high 60' diameter flared sides round pen made out of telephone poles, but as I said, we're renting, and there's no point in spending a bunch of money to put in a round pen that we can't take with us when we leave. The landlord would allow it [heck he's actually all for the idea!], no issues there, he would allow us - is actually encouraging us - to put in an arena as well... but yeah, it's a lot of money to spend on a property for little to no return.


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## RockyTrails (Jan 28, 2013)

Yes only way that would be feasible is if landlord gives you a nice long lease in writing to make it worth while. Yes 7' panels can be special ordered from manufacturers even 8'.


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