# Horses traders who are liars!



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Wyhorses said:


> :-x Seriously how mad am I!!! REALLY MAD!!!
> I have been Taken by a TEXAS HORSE trader, who is holding me hostage by not returning our money after a "money back guaranty" to try his gelding out! My poor husband is trying to be calm with this horrible liar of a man!!!!!! I found the horse on Dreamhorse.com and offered to fly to texas... HE said "*no money back* if you don't like him".... Please help me!!! Pray this horrible man does the right thing. We are super nice people and are very hurt by this. I swear I am never going to want a horse again after dealing with such a LIAR!!


If he said NO MONEY BACK, that is not a guarantee to get your money returned. Is there a way you could resell the horse for the same amount?


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

we both work full time and have kids.
I just want this horrible man to pay... Is there any legal help? ......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

What's wrong with the horse and why did you have to go all the way to Texas to find it? Where do you live?


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

He had him shipped to us in AZ.. money back if we didn't like him. The horse is not a physical fit. We are paying for the transport... I was going to fly to Texas but Texas horse trader said "money back if you don't like him".... :'(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

do you have a signed contract stating money back if not satisfied.. if so yes you can have a case.. if not... word of mouth does not stand up in a legal court of law


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Like Ginger says, if you have a contract, you're golden.
If not, you're silly and screwed. 


ALWAYS have a coontract/bill of sale. ALWAYS.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Also, as a FYI, emails are legally binding in court. If you have an email where he stayed that, that would work as well.


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## feistymomma (Apr 15, 2010)

I would never get mixed up with a deal like that. If I cannot physically see, touch, and ride the horse, I am not buying....no matter if there is a "guarantee" or not. I don't trust anyone, so hopefully you have a contract. If not...there is nothing you can do but try to sell the horse yourself.


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## FeatheredFeet (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm confused. First you say he said, "No money back if you don't like him."
Then you say he said, "Money back if you don't like him." Which is it?

How do you know the man is a 'trader'? How long had he owned the horse? What breed is the horse? What is wrong with the horse exactly? Is it a health problem, training problem? How old is the horse? Did you have a PPE? What paperwork/emails passed between you?

Does this person sell a great many horses in the classifieds? Is so, then I suspect he is a dealer, if not a breeder of so many horses. If it is a case of false advertising, then I would contact Dreamhorse. Scoundrels abound in the horse industry, so it pays to do a great deal of checking, if one cannot see the horse in person. 

Lizzie


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I don't think I know any Horse Trader - who isn't a liar. The saying around here goes "Buyer Beware"


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

FeatheredFeet said:


> I'm confused. First you say he said, "No money back if you don't like him."
> Then you say he said, "Money back if you don't like him." Which is it?
> 
> How do you know the man is a 'trader'? How long had he owned the horse? What breed is the horse? What is wrong with the horse exactly? Is it a health problem, training problem? How old is the horse? Did you have a PPE? What paperwork/emails passed between you?
> ...


I think she meant that when she said she'd fly out to look at the horse the guy said not to because he would give her money back if she didn't like the horse.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Wyhorses said:


> He had him shipped to us in AZ.. money back if we didn't like him. *The horse is not a physical fit.* We are paying for the transport... I was going to fly to Texas but Texas horse trader said "money back if you don't like him".... :'(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So is the horse too big? too small? too crippled? 

People that buy horses from out of state and have them shipped sight unseen are taking an awfull risk. For most people it is advisable to shop for horses close enough to your home that you can see them in person before you buy them. I'm sure you know that now though.


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

interesting story here - subbing.


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## BarrelRacer23 (Aug 17, 2011)

Subbing as well. This story confuses me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Please tell me you have something in writing? Or it was written on the ad at least?

Horse Dealers are out to get money. I was stung by a woman before on a pony who tried to double barrel my daughter in the head. Because I had collected the pony I let the woman know under no circumstances was I keeping the pony and let her know I would be on her doorstep in no time. 

You can try and threaten legal action, say you have the conversation recorded, ect. but you'd be chancing your arm and likely be told where to put your legal action as he'd call your bluff.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Maple said:


> Horse Dealers are out to get money.


Aren't we all? The real question is 'Are we willing to trade our honor and good name for it?' regardless of what a person does for a living they must make that choice for themselves. Not all horse traders are dishonest just like all car dealers aren't crooks. Whenever you buy anything you should make sure it's what you want. People talk themselves into horses they can't handle or shouldn't buy and then blame the person that sold them the horse and call them a crook. I sold a horse at an auction that I expressly said needed an experienced rider. As I was riding the horse before the sale I heard this big loud-mouth say he didn't know anything about horses he just wanted something he could go hunting on. Well wouldn't you know he was the one that bought the horse. He didn't get along well with her and spent quite a bit of money sending her to trainers. Had he not been lying to himself and paid attention to what I said and wrote in the catalog then he could have bought a nice gentle horse he could enjoy.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

crimsonsky said:


> interesting story here - subbing.


Iteresting is one word for it......


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

kevinshorses said:


> Aren't we all? The real question is 'Are we willing to trade our honor and good name for it?' regardless of what a person does for a living they must make that choice for themselves. Not all horse traders are dishonest just like all car dealers aren't crooks. Whenever you buy anything you should make sure it's what you want. People talk themselves into horses they can't handle or shouldn't buy and then blame the person that sold them the horse and call them a crook. I sold a horse at an auction that I expressly said needed an experienced rider. As I was riding the horse before the sale I heard this big loud-mouth say he didn't know anything about horses he just wanted something he could go hunting on. Well wouldn't you know he was the one that bought the horse. He didn't get along well with her and spent quite a bit of money sending her to trainers. Had he not been lying to himself and paid attention to what I said and wrote in the catalog then he could have bought a nice gentle horse he could enjoy.


Fair enough  What you said is 150% right, I personally couldn't begin to think of trying to sell an unsuitable horse to somebody. I sold a gelding a few years back and was told by the buyers that it was the first horse they had tried who was genuinely quiet. They were after trying a few dozen horses. I'm not a dealer, but I couldn't imagine risking injury to somebody by selling unsuitable horses to them. Self respect goes far, if your going to do that to somebody you have to know it's going to bite you in the **** tenfold.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

My point was that some people are thier own worst enemy. They either aren't honest with themselves about thier riding ability or they make excuses for the horse. then when they get burned they blame everyone but themselves.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Agree with kevinshorses.

People need to own up to their mistakes or misjudgements on their skill level or what they can handle; instead of passing on the blame to someone else. There's too many instances where it was miscommunication.

If you're buying the horse because it's pretty and you can "send it to a trainer" that's great and all, but will you be able to handle it? Probably not. Maybe if you get training you could manage.

But why not just buy something that you truly can work with, without biting off more than you can chew? And you can still get help from a trainer or riding instructor to better both you AND the horse's skills/confidence.

Additionally as others have suggested, I would try to avoid buying a horse that you haven't ever seen in person. 

People sugar coat things, and some horses require firmer (or softer) handling. 

And always bring someone experienced to assess where you are in your own abilities, versus where the horse is.

You want to have fun and be safe with your horse, not hurt and frustrated and having anxiety from lack of confidence by choosing the wrong horse for you.

I hope things get ironed out, OP. If he won't give you your money back then either take him to court or cut your losses and sell the horse to someone that can manage him.

Best of luck.


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

kevinshorses said:


> My point was that some people are thier own worst enemy. They either aren't honest with themselves about thier riding ability or they make excuses for the horse. then when they get burned they blame everyone but themselves.


It's true to some degree but you have the other side where people are downright lied to. The pony we were stung with was a "family" pony that she had owned for years. It was only when I had a problem with it, and by digging around we discovered she was a dealer and the pony had only landed with her a few days before. Unfortanetly you have to take people for what they tell you, unless you know the horse/pony from somewhere else you have no choice but to believe what you are told. 

I couldn't imagine buying a horse sight unseen. I think that's asking for trouble, but there are plenty of liars and people who want to make a quick buck that anybody can be done over with them.

EDIT: I do agree though that in some cases people bite off more than they can chew and have nobody to blame but themselves. I'm just also aware that some people get stung by other people who downright lie about the horse.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

That's why I never pay much attention to what the people are saying. Listen to the story the horse is telling you. If you ride the horse then you should be able to tell what the horse is like and if it's suited to you.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

MIEventer said:


> I don't think I know any Horse Trader - who isn't a liar. The saying around here goes "Buyer Beware"


You may have had a bad experience or know the wrong people, MOST of the horse traders, the genuine horse traders I have known have been great to deal with. Because their business is to buy and sell they need repeat business and word of mouth in the horse community can kill you stone dead.

So while BUYER BEWARE is teh watch word anytime you go to buy a horse, a good horse trader can be a great place to visit, they tend to have a range of types of horses, and the guy I worked with a lot found me 2 gems when I was looking. 




Maple said:


> I
> I couldn't imagine buying a horse sight unseen. I think that's asking for trouble, but there are plenty of liars and people who want to make a quick buck that anybody can be done over with them.


It's done more than you think, I have both bought and sold sight unseen, this is a kind of Haflinger desert up here, and it would cost me more than the cost of the horse to go and see them, so I have bought a few from videos, pics and conversations, hey, even Big Ben here was bought sight unseen. I have only been lied to once, and that was from a breeder, who seems to be respected in her breed, she downright robbed me, but the small town breeder, the trader and the private person I've dealt with, full honesty and full disclosure, I knew what I was getting and was happy with the deal.

OP, suing anyone over a horse deal is hard, I did manage to get a little money back from my one sour deal, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth. If the horse you bought it sound and healthy, just not a good match, sell it and move on, or take it to a local reputable dealer and trade it in.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Buying horses is a lot like buying used cars....

You never believe what the salemans pitch is and always look under the hood...


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Golden Horse said:


> You may have had a bad experience or know the wrong people, MOST of the horse traders, the genuine horse traders I have known have been great to deal with. Because their business is to buy and sell they need repeat business and word of mouth in the horse community can kill you stone dead.
> 
> So while BUYER BEWARE is teh watch word anytime you go to buy a horse, a good horse trader can be a great place to visit, they tend to have a range of types of horses, and the guy I worked with a lot found me 2 gems when I was looking.
> 
> ...


Sorta going away from the topic at hand.. but did Ian Miller not travel to Belgium to see Big Ben before he was purchased? I think he was directed to the horse by somebody he knew. 

I couldnt imagine it personally, but I'm in a country where I can drive from one end to the other in 4 hours - there is no reason for somebody here NOT to travel to see a horse. I had to drive for 6 hours in Saskatchewan last year and my husband who had never been before almost went up the wall :lol: can't say I wouldn't blame you for not travelling.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Golden Horse said:


> You may have had a bad experience or know the wrong people, MOST of the horse traders, the genuine horse traders I have known have been great to deal with. Because their business is to buy and sell they need repeat business and word of mouth in the horse community can kill you stone dead.


GH, I'll have to somewhat disagree with you and say it depends a lot on where you leave AND what one describes the horse dealer. 

I know several very nice and respected in area farms that do boarding, training, and lessons, and also sell horses on top of it (and you know what you are getting and those horses are usually not cheap). But I'm not positive they could be called true "horse dealer". I'd rather say "off-farm sale". 

However several people I've met who only did re-sell of the (mostly from the auction) horses were true rip-offers to the point of some customers getting hurt. They all are also very well know in area, and those who know them stay away as far as possible.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

It's still a crap shoot if you do see him, touch him, and ride him.

Many horses are drugged when shown, and then when you get them home, they often turn out to have a different temperament.

My suggestion is to stop by and see the horse several times, and if possible, stop in unannounced. 

Sorry you're having issues with the horse.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

How much did you pay for this horse? Why did you have to go out of state to find it? Why would you risk the presumably considerable cost of shipping without having someone trustworthy objectively evaluate the horse on-site and getting a pre-purchase exam done before committing to pay for it?



MIEventer said:


> I don't think I know any Horse Trader - who isn't a liar. The saying around here goes "Buyer Beware"


Well, I know several. And I don't know all that many horse traders. The buyer should always beware, anyway. There are plenty of honest people in the business, but deals still go very, very wrong, and I've been in the middle of some of them. Just one example of many: I was working for a trader and sold an eight-year-old Arabian mare do be a little girl's first horse. The parents came out and looked at her several times, the trainer came out and rode her, the girl loved her, everything was great. They bought the horse. I found out a month later that the mare had been diagnosed with a bad case of navicular and the vet had warned them never to ride her again. _No one_ _had known she had any problem._ There was no dishonesty involved. She was not drugged or buted, she had not limped, I had noticed that she tripped occasionally but truly didn't think anything of it. They had the option of getting a PPE done but didn't think it was necessary. And they lost $2250 on an unrideable mare.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

gunslinger said:


> It's still a crap shoot if you do see him, touch him, and ride him.
> 
> Many horses are drugged when shown, and then when you get them home, they often turn out to have a different temperament.
> 
> ...


Exactly, and bring knowledgeable eyes with you! A vet, farrier, trainer, riding instructor. The more the merrier! That will eliminate any wool pulled over the eyes. A horse is an investment.. you need to pick the right one for YOU.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> GH, I'll have to somewhat disagree with you and say it depends a lot on where you leave AND what one describes the horse dealer.


That's why I qualified it to the ones that I actually know:wink:

There are indeed crooks in every business, and we could all certainly argue about actual definitions of horse traders, bottom line once again buyer beware.

If you are going to buy long distance there are things that you can do, and coming to a forum like this before you shop is a good idea, as is Google, see is the name of the person that you are buying from pops up anywhere. Search see how many ads they have up, if they are a trader they should have satisfied buyers who you can check with.

Oh, and as with anything in life, if something is cheap there is a reason for it, find out what that reason is.


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## Gremmy (Feb 17, 2009)

Maple said:


> Sorta going away from the topic at hand.. but did Ian Miller not travel to Belgium to see Big Ben before he was purchased? I think he was directed to the horse by somebody he knew.
> 
> I couldnt imagine it personally, but I'm in a country where I can drive from one end to the other in 4 hours - there is no reason for somebody here NOT to travel to see a horse. I had to drive for 6 hours in Saskatchewan last year and my husband who had never been before almost went up the wall :lol: can't say I wouldn't blame you for not travelling.


I think GH means her Big Ben, not THE Big Ben :lol:


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Gremmy said:


> I think GH means her Big Ben, not THE Big Ben :lol:


You mean there's another one:rofl:

Yes I did mean mine, the handsome one, not the famous one!


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm sorry, yes he said don't fly out. I will give you your money back if you don't like him... I'll check the one paper he sent. VIA fax. No paperwork heath records ex cane with the horse....he verbally was abusive to me one the phone attacking, me saying he thought the horse was going to a good home?? Wth? A bully is all he is. We are a loving family that completely babies there animals... My God! I'm glad I'm not married to this guy! Sick man!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Golden Horse said:


> Oh, and as with anything in life, if something is cheap there is a reason for it, find out what that reason is.


Yep, you get what you pay for. Unless you are very very lucky to get a great deal.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

Wyhorses said:


> I'm sorry, yes he said don't fly out. I will give you your money back if you don't like him... I'll check the one paper he sent. VIA fax. No paperwork heath records ex cane with the horse....he verbally was abusive to me one the phone attacking, me saying he thought the horse was going to a good home?? Wth? A bully is all he is. We are a loving family that completely babies there animals... My God! I'm glad I'm not married to this guy! Sick man!



But do you have that WRITTEN out? Why did you buy the horse if no health records came with it? and may I also ask what is wrong with the horse? why won't you keep him? Your story is confusing me =/


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

he was not cheep. I did Google him. And he knows some of the same horse folks as i do in California.... He is just a plain liar!!!
He has tons if horses listed on dreamhorse.com aka nightmare.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

You are not answering any of my questions. Why are you avoiding them?

edit: This leads me to believe we are not getting the whole story.


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

The Texas horse trader said the papers would come with the horse..... He lied about the size of the horse that is in writing..... he will get a bad rep. Then he will have to have a ranch fire sale. You can't get away with treating people bad anymore with the internet...everything goes public! It's a good thing too!!


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

What questions?!? I'm making my family dinner. Sorry if I am not seeing all the questions?


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Wyhorses said:


> he was not cheep. I did Google him. And he knows some of the same horse folks as i do in California.... He is just a plain liar!!!
> He has tons if horses listed on dreamhorse.com aka nightmare.


Have you contacted these people to see what they have to say about him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

What is actually wrong with the horse? Is he too tall or too short or too skinny or too fat? Why are you so dissatisfied with him?


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Your ranting about how much of a liar this "horse trader" is but you aren't explaining WHY. You just keep saying he is a liar. We got that on the first page of this thread. We wana know WHY he is a liar and WHAT is wrong with this horse...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Wyhorses said:


> he was not cheep.


WH, sorry we were just talking off-topic, noone meant it was a cheap horse. :wink:

Do you have anything writing (email or contract or fax) saying you can return the horse? And terms of return? 

And I'm curious too, what exactly is wrong with the horse? I knew some people selling horses who were OK to take the horse back if it was a bad match (yes, it happens too). But is it something terribly wrong that you want to return a horse?


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

He is really small.. I'm sure he lied about his size. I will weight and measure him this weekend....I did call the Texas horse trader the very next day!! I wanted him to know what my feelings were. He then started verbally attacking me...


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Wyhorses said:


> He is really small.. I'm sure he lied about his size. I will weight and measure him this weekend....I did call the Texas horse trader the very next day!! I wanted him to know what my feelings were. He then started verbally attacking me...


Do you have a bill of sale AT ALL? Does it say the height there? 

Yes, some people DO lie about the height. I definitely came across this problem when I was shopping for horse myself.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

So you called a man a liar before you wieghed and measured the horse? No wonder he got a little irate.


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

I do have in writing the wrong measurements of this horse... He is a sweet horse just not my dream horse.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Wyhorses said:


> I do have in writing the wrong measurements of this horse... He is a sweet horse just not my dream horse.


WH, I'm confused, sorry. So what exactly do you have in writing? Bill of sale? If so what exactly does it say? Any emails? If you bought 16 hh horse, and it's only 15 hh it's quite obvious. But you have to have some kind of prove to say you were ripped.


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Half of this story isn't making sence. Your telling us the story in bits and pieces. Could you just explain why he is actually a liar (other then the fact that he advertised the horses height wrong)?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, lets calm down. OP is frustrated and trying to find out what she can do.

WH, just want to say that noone is jumping at you, but your posts are very confusing (and missing info). If you want a help, you need to give more details on what you were told, what is wrong, and if you have any documents that show the difference. Unless you have something in writing there is pretty much nothing you can do, unfortunately.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I was thinking because you wanted to set his place on fire that maybe this horse tried to kill one of your children.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If you haven't measured him then maybe YOU are the one that is wrong. A "hand" is only four inches so the difference between 15 hands and 16 hands is about the distance between the tip of your thumb and the tip of your index finger. Pretty hard for most people to judge with thier eye.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

COWCHICK77 said:


> I was thinking because you wanted to set his place on fire that maybe this horse tried to kill one of your children.....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think she meant the kind of sale you have before the bank siezes everything.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

WH, you can do the stick yourself and measure from ground to withers (with horse standing on flat leveled surface).


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> I think she meant the kind of sale you have before the bank siezes everything.


LoL!!! I think I just showed my ***....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Omg I am throughly confused! Lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

COWCHICK77 said:


> LoL!!! I think I just showed my ***....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


pics???


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> pics???


Lol! Picture a jackass in your brain....pretty **** close...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

_*Folks, please stay on topic. *_There is a "General" subforum if you want to discuss something else. 

Thank you!


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Well either way going on a tirade and calling someone a liar on the internet is bold...especially considering the horse hasn't been measured yet to see if there is a problem or a misunderstanding.I am sorry the OP is disappointed but considering the horse was bought sight unseen it could of been worse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I've bought four horses sight unseen - been happy with all of them. Aside from the one that died on me. 
But, I've gotten some very respected opinion of them from other breeders/trainers who are in the area. You can try and cover all your bases.

I'm still confused as to wether it's just his height, or if there is a personailty clash or...?


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

I am now thoroughly confused =/ Unless his height difference is EXTREME then I do not see a problem. Most of your posts do not make sense, all I can really get is that this man is apparently a liar and he attacked you on the phone? You must have been nagging a lot to get him to get him to do that =/


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

If the attitude shown on this thread by you, OP, is anything like the attitude with which you have communicated with the seller of the horse, I can see why there has not been a warm fuzzy reception from him.
You are upset, that must is painfully obvious. If you could take a step back and take a deep breath (or two or three) and try to express specifically what it is that makes you feel you were mislead about this horse it would be a lot easier to advise you.


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

If the horse is OK in every other way but the height, you should be able to rehome him easily, there is a market for shorter horses.
I would find him a good home, and look for something local.
Good Luck!


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## Patriot (Jan 28, 2012)

I was in a very similar situation a few years ago...buying first horse for my daughter, plus one for me and almost one for my wife - thank goodness I stopped at two. Very long story that I won't tell, won't do any good however I had (still do) harbor the same emotions toward the folks we bought the horses from. After the fact I found that sellers have a very bad local reputation from pretty much everybody that has ever dealt with them on any level. 

I was green to the horse world in a big way, much of what happened I can honestly say was my fault because I wasn't a educated buyer. Had I known more about everything I would have walked away. I thought that I was dealing with someone who would not take advantage of me but I was wrong. The worlds full of folks who are more than willing to take advantage of a eager buyer. A buyers greatest asset is knowledge about the product, no mater what your buying. 

Sometimes we just need to need to say (I'm including myself) I screwed up and learn from the situation. I did big time but now everything is Okay. My horses were green broke our family were green riders, my daughter was involved in a incident that could have hurt her very bad and yes I still hold a grudge but I learned and moved on. 

I agree with many of the other posts, you really haven't explained what the problem is. 

I hope that you are able to get everything worked out to the sanctification of all parties involved. I want to close with the most important point, it's not the horses fault please don't take out on him/her.


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Patroit said:


> Sometimes we just need to need to say (I'm including myself) I screwed up and learn from the situation.


Great advice and worth repeating often, so often people cast around for places to put the blame, when they should look to themselves first, then to others.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Wow, I agree that this story is going in circles. Subbing just to see if the OP will finally answer some questions.


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## ShinaKonga (Jun 24, 2010)

Bridgertrot said:


> Wow, I agree that this story is going in circles. Subbing just to see if the OP will finally answer some questions.


Same here. I'd love to actually understand the situation and see if I can help somehow... But as of right now its spinning.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Sherlock Hemlock to the rescue to solve the mystery! Ok, the OP got ahold of the guy advertising this horse. She said I am gonna fly & see this horse & see if it's what I want. The evil horse trader says, no need, if it's not the horse you are looking for I will give you your money back. *Details missing about this money back guarantee, what it stipulates or it's in writing. The horse arrives, the OP has posted "he is a nice horse but he is not as tall as the evil horse trader said he was, he is not my dream horse". So she called the guy up and asks for her money back. He is rude & tells her to "Go fly a kite, I am not giving your money back!" Note-I improvised about the kite, but thats' basically the story. Oh, then she comes on here & confuses us all.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I think everyone is wondering WHY he is not working out. IF height is the only issue, he should be re-sellable to someone else to get her money back, or trade for a taller horse.
Or is he conformationally defect? Bucker? Sick?


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

I just get the feeling this thread may have been made to get attention, being she hasn't been back in I don't know how many pages...so...I mean it can't be that important, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

She is off posting on other horse forums about this evil horse trader, she said she was gonna do that...


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Oh good lord :shock:


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

And I'm assuming she hasn't sticked him yet?


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

If she has, she hasn't posted the results to the jury here.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Well, she said that she was going to stick and weigh him this weekend. If it has been done, maybe she was disappointed by the results? But to properly trash a horse trader on the internet, wouldn't you say who he was, what the ad said and what the horse really was (pictures included). It is all too vague.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Yes, something smells fishy to me.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Do you know her, waresbear?
I thought it odd that the horse came without any health papers because I don't know any haulers willing to risk their license by hauling a horse across state lines with the paperwork. 
Ah, well...


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I wouldn't know her if I fell over her.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

LOL 
Probably a good thing! I initally wondered cause you said she was on amother forum, but I guess with this rant it would be easy to tell it was her, same username or no.


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

Quick update! He had the horse shipped back to Raising Star Texas, (we paid the shipping.) (each time it was 100.00 more than he quoted)..... Whatever. The horse was back on his property one week, just today he wired 5000, back. He said his wife wont let him refund the entire amount (6500).... So he is withholding 1500... I know for a FACT he already resold the horse. (good for him), but he should return all our money like he said he would...


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

In the scuba world, a huge lawsuit was issued after a diver complained publically about a dive shop. The dive shop sued for defamation; the diver misrepresented the truth.


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

*down her they call em 5 and dimes*



gunslinger said:


> It's still a crap shoot if you do see him, touch him, and ride him.
> 
> Many horses are drugged when shown, and then when you get them home, they often turn out to have a different temperament.
> 
> ...


that stands for 5cc of Acepromazine (sp) in the Vein and 10 in the butt a few minutes before the perspective buyers arrive....Very common practice in the deep south.... 
I totally agree that I'd pop by unannounced to ride any horse I wanted to buy. Also here Is a tip I learned the hard way.... Don't let them have the horse saddled when you arrive. all that means is that they have been riding the crap out of the horse BEFORE you arrive to tire him/her out.

I want to see the horse caught cold from the field and tacked up first.....

My own experience of buying online was not terrible at lease I did get the horse that i was promised however she was quite a bit skinnier, arrived with no papers no coggins (despite traveling from Canada to new orleans) 
and she was a LOT higher strung than i was led to believe.....

whoever said "let the Buyer Beware" was right on the money


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

Wyhorses said:


> Quick update! He had the horse shipped back to Raising Star Texas, (we paid the shipping.) (each time it was 100.00 more than he quoted)..... Whatever. The horse was back on his property one week, just today he wired 5000, back. He said his wife wont let him refund the entire amount (6500).... So he is withholding 1500... I know for a FACT he already resold the horse. (good for him), but he should return all our money like he said he would...


If he accepted the horse back (which was the right thing to do since he did promise to refund your money if you didn't like him) I think that you have a right to collect whatever you paid for the horse as long as it went back in the same condition that you got him in. His wife saying that he couldn't refund all the money sounds like a whole lotta BS to me.... I think you are right to demand your money back IF he has accepted the horse back. 

Just as a totally friendly suggestion you may want to see what legal options that you have with your own small claims court of your town/county. If you can come up with something in writing to prove that he promised you money back if you didn't like the horse IF you don't have anything in writing I"d call him up and record the conversation. where I live small claims can run up to 2000 and he would have to travel to you to appear if he does not appear you win by default.


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

Calling all horse trader's liars is wrong.
I know they have a terrible reputation, but not everyone who buys and sells is a thief.
Case in point.
I had a little girl who had paid a deposit on a gelding, see another horse I had just gotten in, and she fell in love with her.
Because I paid more for her than the gelding, I should have asked more for the mare.
I did not, as I enjoyed seeing them together.
I lost money but it was the right thing to do.
I buy and sell because it is fun for me, like a hobby.
I take pride in matching horse to rider and have a good track record and many people wanting second horses from me.
Sorry you had a bad experience, and I am sorry many people get taken in, but please remember not all traders are dishonest.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

WildAcreFarms said:


> where I live small claims can run up to 2000 and he would have to travel to you to appear if he does not appear you win by default.


Since the horse was in TX and that is where the deal initiated, you would have to travel there.


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## hillside farm (Dec 23, 2011)

I think this whole story is a case of Buyers Remorse........


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I think she thought buying a horse on DreamHorse.com was like ordering socks off of Amazon.com. If the socks don't fit or the wrong color you get to send them back, no questions asked and you get your money back. Perhaps if she wanted the perfect horse boxed up with a bow sent to her, she should stick to collecting to Breyer horses.

I am glad to see the post naming the "trader" was deleted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

iridehorses said:


> Since the horse was in TX and that is where the deal initiated, you would have to travel there.


you know what come to think of it you may be right. My mom got sure and they did sue her here in our county..... I don't know why i was thinking it was the other way around. grrrrr


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

hillside farm said:


> I think this whole story is a case of Buyers Remorse........


well Yes but that doesn't mean that the guy didn't promise to take the horse back and not do it. I'd have buyers remorse too if I bought a horse that didn't measure up to what i thought he should be.... She said they paid 6500 for the horse. that's a LOT for the economic climate of today, where people everywhere are GIVING horses away. for that price I'm expecting a horse to be in great shape (she said he was not) perfectly push button trained and have the ability to win at shows.


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## gingerscout (Jan 18, 2012)

WildAcreFarms said:


> well Yes but that doesn't mean that the guy didn't promise to take the horse back and not do it. I'd have buyers remorse too if I bought a horse that didn't measure up to what i thought he should be.... She said they paid 6500 for the horse. that's a LOT for the economic climate of today, where people everywhere are GIVING horses away. for that price I'm expecting a horse to be in great shape (she said he was not) perfectly push button trained and have the ability to win at shows.


 I agree in a way.. when i read they paid 6500 for this so called horse.. i cringed.. In this market that could buy you something like an andalusian or a friesian in some cases.. but only refunding 5k is not right if it was in paperwork that he would refund money, but then again coming on multiple forums and verbally bashing this guy.. he could sue you as well and he may end up with the money back.. so you will be out the horse and the money for libel


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## Maple (Jan 10, 2012)

Unfortanetly I think she is going to have to chalk this one up to a case of lesson learned. If you had nothing in writing, you lucky to have gotten a single cent back because he could have just denied ever saying that. Not to be the spoil-sport but I can't see you getting anymore money back from him.. harsh but true. You can try, but I don't see it happening - here's hoping you prove me wrong.

Next time, go closer to home, view the horse, try the horse, take it on trial if you can and make sure it is what you want. You will find yourself a perfectly good horse for a fraction of that price. 

Good luck with everything


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

gingerscout said:


> I agree in a way.. when i read they paid 6500 for this so called horse.. i cringed.. In this market that could buy you something like an andalusian or a friesian in some cases.. but only refunding 5k is not right if it was in paperwork that he would refund money, but then again coming on multiple forums and verbally bashing this guy.. he could sue you as well and he may end up with the money back.. so you will be out the horse and the money for libel


Yes i agree shouting his name all over the forum didn't do her any good or win her any fans LOL but i CERTAINLY Do understand the frustration that someone can feel when they are taken advantage of.


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## WildAcreFarms (Apr 6, 2011)

*excellent advise!!*



Maple said:


> Unfortanetly I think she is going to have to chalk this one up to a case of lesson learned. If you had nothing in writing, you lucky to have gotten a single cent back because he could have just denied ever saying that. Not to be the spoil-sport but I can't see you getting anymore money back from him.. harsh but true. You can try, but I don't see it happening - here's hoping you prove me wrong.
> 
> Next time, go closer to home, view the horse, try the horse, take it on trial if you can and make sure it is what you want. You will find yourself a perfectly good horse for a fraction of that price.
> 
> Good luck with everything


Excellent advise directly from the horses mouth LOL.


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## ladybugsgirl (Aug 12, 2009)

Hummm...the thread seemed fishy to me to. I agree with many of the other posters.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Sorry, but paying $6500 in this economy for a horse sight unseen is bizarre in its own right. Glad you at least got $5,000 back when it sounds like he didn't want to give you any of your money back, but that horse had better have come with some serious training for that price to begin with. Definitely look closer to home and do a pre-purchase trial next time to make sure it's the horse for you.


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## Wyhorses (Jan 26, 2012)

Update! I got all but 700 back! and Lesson learned! I am so busy with work and teenage kids to reply quickly sorry! I don't facebook either LOL Thank you to the supportive and thoughtful replies!


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