# Are stallions trouble?



## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

I'd say "no".

As long as you care for the horse, socialize him well when he's young and manageable, and you work with him and train him, I see no problem with having a stallion. A stallion's just a horse with another name. I'd check out the bloodlines first though, because some bloodlines have stallions known for being hot-headed.

Otherwise, just train the horse well, don't leave him alone, and give him plenty of exercize, and you've got a great horse on your hands!


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

It would also be a _very_ good idea to get a horse that is worth keeping as a stallion. There's no point in keeping a stallion if it's never going to be good enough to breed. Waiting for a performance record is one thing, but if it's got bad conformation it's never going to be the kind of sire that betters the breed.

You're going to have to make sure it's extremely well-trained and put in all the extra precautions that are necessary for your safety, your horse's, and any other horses he'll come across.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Most horses don't need the "extra precautions" though. Like I said, check out the bloodlines. If any stallions in the family history tends to be a little... well... coockoo, then I'd say go for the "extra precautions". But really... most stallions just don't need them.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Unless your colt has exceptional breeding, conformation, training, and is registered, then the only reason not to geld him is ego. If your prospect is just average then why do you want to breed him? Market conditions today makes an average colt or filly worth very little if anything. Go to an auction and see what they bring. 

Stallions need to be handled differently then mares or geldings. They can not be kept together and he needs different fencing. If you intend to keep him in the wire fencing as in your avatar then you are going to have a good deal of trouble at best and/or a lot of vet bills at worse. When it comes time for him to breed, he will do anything he can to get out and no one better be in his way. Are there exceptions? Of course, but it takes a lifetime commitment to his training, handling, and his potential as breeding stock not ego.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

I am aware of the reasons to breed or not to breed... I just wanted to know how hard it was to keep a stallion. My horse scout does have good lines more so from his dad. His sire is Fames Sonata he is a true Homoyzygous Pinto stallion. He was tested and certified by the University of Kentucky for the tobiano pinto gene which means he is a 100% pinto color producer. He’s also SCID Clear.

“Sonny” has had two years of professional training for Pleasure Driving and Country English Pleasure and has placed as Champion, Reserve Champion and Top 10 in these disciplines and Halter. He is Triple Registered National Show Horse, Pinto and Renai and is a NSH Nominated Stallion. He is also a Nominated Stallion for the Show Horse Alliance. He could be Sweepstakes nominated.

Knowing that while my horse had his balls is why I was considering keeping them.


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## Checkers (Jul 28, 2008)

it all depends on the horse. 
When its still a young stud if its mean and you just cant train it out of him then yes! Get those balls OFF!
But if as a young stud he seems gentle and respects you then no he wont be to much trouble.


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## PoptartShop (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't think they're necessarily trouble, but you have to remember his personality is going to be different from your average mare/gelding.  I think with the proper training he can become a great horse. But remember some stallions can be high-strung & only care about mares rather than doing work. But it TRULY depends on the individual horse.


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## aappyfan1 (Jun 28, 2008)

I have seen both kinds of stallions.  One that is kept totally by himself and not allowed to be near other horses are far more likely to cause trouble.   I have a sweet darling of a Stallion, he is gentle and easy to handle even when there are mares in season. but He is an exceptional stallion.   He is kept in a ajoining pen next to the mares and geldings. I don't need stronger fencing just higher or else an electric fence ..The only draw back that I see owning him is that he has to be in a pen by himself.  I don't have him running with the mares and geldings in the pasture, so have to feed/water etc. which makes him more work than the others.  I don't use him much anymore for breeding and at 20 I don't think gelding him would do much good.


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## girl_on_black_pony (Jul 19, 2008)

It depends upon the horse. I have seen stallions wilder than WILD!! I just bought a stallion, expecting him to be a bit of a challenge, but he is very laid-back, so much that people sometimes mistake him as a gelding!
Just test him. Begin training, and if he proves too much to handle, and you're sure its because of his manhood, chop 'em off!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

iridehorses said:


> Unless your colt has exceptional breeding, conformation, training, and is registered, then the only reason not to geld him is ego. If your prospect is just average then why do you want to breed him? Market conditions today makes an average colt or filly worth very little if anything. Go to an auction and see what they bring.
> 
> Stallions need to be handled differently then mares or geldings. They can not be kept together and he needs different fencing. If you intend to keep him in the wire fencing as in your avatar then you are going to have a good deal of trouble at best and/or a lot of vet bills at worse. When it comes time for him to breed, he will do anything he can to get out and no one better be in his way. Are there exceptions? Of course, but it takes a lifetime commitment to his training, handling, and his potential as breeding stock not ego.


I COMPLETELY agree!! Thank you!! 

Please read my thoughts here:
http://www.horseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13655


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> I COMPLETELY agree!! Thank you!!
> 
> Please read my thoughts here:
> http://www.horseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=13655


You do appear to be on a mission here JDI. :lol: 

I had asked on the other thread who owns a stallion on this site but I fear anyone that does would be fearful of raising their hand. :?


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

How did this ego thing ever come up? I never thought of keeping him a stallion because of my ego... I wanted to keep him a stallion to breed him because his dad is an exceptional horse as well as his mother. All I wanted to know is if they were hard to handle or if people made them out to be harder than they really were.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

'His mom and dad were good horses.'

Not a reason to breed a horse. There are PLENTY of nice horses, that can actually do something. 


"He was tested and certified by the University of Kentucky for the tobiano pinto gene which means he is a 100% pinto color producer. He’s also SCID Clear."

Also, plenty of these. Color is NEVER a reason to breed a horse. Ever. This is why SO many nice paints are being shipped to mexico. 'He was homozygous!' ...so? There are plenty of colored babies.

"“Sonny” has had two years of professional training for Pleasure Driving and Country English Pleasure and has placed as Champion, Reserve Champion and Top 10 in these disciplines and Halter." 

In... what? 4H? I'm not trying to be mean, but in what? Unless the show is a BIG DEAL, then it DOESN'T MATTER.

"He is Triple Registered National Show Horse, Pinto and Renai and is a NSH Nominated Stallion. He is also a Nominated Stallion for the Show Horse Alliance. He could be Sweepstakes nominated."

Also, not reasons to breed a horse.

This is the problem: Exceptional means exceptional anywhere, not just in your town or your state. This is why we have so, so many horses going to slaughter.

Not saying your boy is necessarily bad, just that the reasons you stated... none are worth 'keeping his balls'.

With that being said, yes stallions can be a pain. But it's not their fault, it's the handler's fault--you have to be a GOOD horse trainer to handle most stallions. If you get them 'professionally' trained by someone else... then you better hope he's good-natured, because he won't be in a while after he comes home from that 'professional trainer!'


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

Wow to that last post... I sure hope you were kidding.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

also.. if those are not good reasons to breed a horse... I'd sure like to know your reasons.

And to those people who do breed... if there are so many horses going to "mexico" for slaughter then they in the heck are people breeding to start with..

please don't talk to me like I'm some hill billy breeding horses for no reason.

"you don't know me"


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

I think a more direct answer to your thread topic is, yes. Stallions are trouble. 

I don't think anyone is accusing you of being a BYB hill-billy. Breeding is a sensitive topic. My thoughts are that if your horse is not seen as "fantabulous" (thank you Van Morrisonby  ) by the highest standards, just geld him. I also agree that breeding for color is closed minded.

God, there are just so many unwanted horses in the world. If I were in your shoes, I'd be concerned about potentially contributing.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't think breeding for color is close minded... if you want a paint you want a paint... you want what you want... The horse I have now Scout my avatar is a pinto when I was looking for a horse to buy... I was really interested in only a pinto/paint... I don't see anything wrong with that.


Not to mention I bought him from a lady who didn't want him anymore... for 500 bucks... so if you ask me I bought one of those "unwanted" horses.

And for the people who keep COMPLAINING about the rest of the country breeding horses should mind there own Business. The world is not perfect so why should all of the horses be?


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't know enough about American shows to say whether or not your horse is of breeding quality, so I'm not going to make a judgement about your stallion.

But while a nice colour can improve a horse with good conformation and a strong performance record, it's not going to fix sickle hocks or an inability to perform. Colour on its own can't improve the breed; it has to be the icing on the cake.

Sure, the world's not perfect, but if you breed only the best horses, you a) cut down on the massive equine overpopulation problem the US has and b) make it so that even the cheapest horses are sound with good conformation and temperaments. There is no need or demand for ugly, badly-put-together horses.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

Well the biggest problem for most people with "other" people breeding is... some people will just never be happy. I could breed a great horse with another great horse and produce another great horse, but john doe down the road still might think I was ignorant for doing it. As far as breeding goes sure I agree only people who know what they are doing "should" do it... but this is America and that is not going to be the case. Unless your horse is going to mexico I don't suggest telling other people they shouldn't breed there horse.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with keeping a horse a stallion even IF you're not planning to breed.

And sure... a lot of people have problems with breeding horses that aren't exactly world championship winners. Let me say something to them:

As long as you're not breeding two completely and utterly ugly and extremely sick horses, and you're not overbreeding, why CAN'T you want a foal!?? What is so bad about it?

Sure... overbreeding is happening a lot in owners who really don't know much about horses, and just want a cute foal around (until it grows up). There's the same problem with puppies. What do you do? Encourage to spay and neuter, or, if people really do want that, be RESPONSIBLE.

The biggest problem is responsibility, not the fact that you're breeding a stallion to a mare. And if people are responsible, why can't they breed?

Seems to me like a lot of you on here assume that stallions are trouble, and the horse has to be a world champion if it's to be a stallion.

My word to you ScoutRacer is this: If you want a stallion. Get a stallion. But just don't be stupid.

My words to everyone else is: As long as he's not hurting the horse, or being "stupid" as I said before, MIND your OWN business. If he wants to breed his stallion once or twice, that's his business. Not yours. It only becomes your business if he's being "stupid".


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

Mind your own business? C'mon, if this is a forum, and if these topics are brought up , then it is OUR business. These kinds of discussions are good, and I'm glad we're having it.

Just because we live in "America" doesn't give us the right to use that as an excuse to be cocky and so sure of ourselves. This country is built on theory, not practice, and we sure as hell aren't a "free country". Please stop using "America" as a way to back up your point.

Of course, anyone who is breeding anything is going to go ahead and do it no matter what. Some people want to breed MORE animals. I do not approve of any breeding of animals that don't have purpose, or are over populated. Like I said in another thread, I wish I had a bumper sticker that said "Spay, Neuter, Geld".

If you want to breed your $500 stallion for color (and for his other "top of the line" qualities), then of course, no one can stop you. But keep in mind, if you attempt a topic like this on a forum, HUNDREDS of people will read it and have a reaction. Breeding of any animal is a heated topic. Be prepared for some criticism.


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

I had never used "america" as an excuse. I may have lived the first eight years of my life the States, but I no longer live there.

OK... so breeding's a heated argument. And I don't see why.

If we never bred, you'd never have that pony in your backyard. I'm not saying that we need to go out of control, but if someone feels they have a decent horse, and the horse is getting older, and they want to keep the lines going, why can't they breed?


Like I said before, it seems to me like a lot of people are saying that the only horses that can be bred are world champions. And you want to know something? Some people dont' want a world champion. They want a sweet horse that they can raise on their own.


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

....but there are enough sweet horses available without making more....


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## FutureVetGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

Sure. I never said that there was any lack of horses. I'm just saying that some people want the horse that they already own. Or their offspring.

And a stallion is still a horse. So please stop all your bigotry of them.

You guys can debate the breeding as much as you want. I'm out of that part of it.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

thank you vet girl. I agree with you. I was starting to feel like I was the only one that felt that a stallion does not have to be a world champion to be bred. I don't see why it would be wrong for me to mate my $500 dollar horse with another $500 dollar horse... even if there are to many horses in the country. I also don't see why breeding has to be such a hotted topic with people. Why should they care if I'm breeding my worthless horse what does it matter to them. As long as I take care of it and do what I'm supposed to...

More than anything I think the people who have the problems with people breeding are the people who are stuck up. Like Vet girl said not everyone wants a world champ, and not everyone wants a perfect horse that costs 10,000 dollars.


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## saraequestrian (Dec 4, 2007)

breeding is about IMPROVING the breed, in my opinion.
The only way to do that is to have horses with GREAT conformation, attitude, performance etc. breed. 
Keeping "decent" lines going? You have GOT to remember that your horse probably has brothers, sisters, half-brothers, half-sisters that might have been bred. 
I've seen a LOT of "decent" horses sell for alarmingly low prices or go off to slaughter. 

hey, if you want a foal. don't breed your "decent" horses, go find yourself a nice foal and buy it.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

Isn't it possible that my cheap horse is a really good horse with good bloodlines and good confirmation. The price of a horse does not mean that the quality of the horse is higher or lower. The lady I got this horse from Bred my horse very well. Her Barn went bankrupt and had to get rid of her horses. That is when I came by and saw my horse and bought him for really cheap. 


My horse Scout is gelded... but as a result of my post I have very quickly realized how many people out there have there noses in the air about breeding. To me this is a sad fact about the horse community. Sure I am all about improving the quality of the breed, but for pete sakes if I want to mate two of my horses and produce an AVG colt then I'm going to do it and I'm going to love my AVG colt like a world champion.

side note: I don't know where most are you are from... but the horse population around my area is a far cry from over populated.


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

If the horse is only worth $500, is it really that good? If it's got good conformation, good temperament, and a good performance record, it'd surely be worth far more than that - even in the current market. Right?


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

When you went out looking for horses and you only wanted a pinto, did you care to look a little harder...These days you could find any horse, let alone a pinto, for $500 and save it from slaughter. To be honest, i think your kinda being oblivious to the advice people are giving about owning/handling a stallion. You asked if they were trouble but every time someone tells you something, you shoot down the idea and say oh no way. 

The way I view it is, yes there are nice and tame studs. Ive met plenty, but i would never own one unless I had a purpose. If i could get another horse right now, i would save one from slaughter because all these people that are breeding for no reason are the reason these poor innocent horses are getting shipped to mexico for slaughter.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

And also, that horse as your avatar is still young and when they are young, you cannot tell what their conformation will be like. So basically your going by bloodlines. I would like to see them if they are so fantastic.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

oblivious?

the only thing I am speaking out against is all of you people who think a horse has to be a god of horses to breed. I think it is such bull that everyone thinks that a horse has to have insane confirmation to be worth breeding.

I was curious to how hard a stallion would be to keep... that was my original question... 

And so what... I wanted a pinto what is so wrong with breeding for color or wanting a specific color or breed.

I know many professional horse people in my town that breed for color amongst other specific qualities. Why do you think having a homozygous stud or broodmare is so nice... because they always throw.... "paint"

Also............ you posters keep talking about horses going to mexico.... what is up with this.... I have not once heard of a horse going to mexico around my area let alone state


Also the price of a horse does NOT always equal the quality of the horse.
So what he was 500 bucks does that mean he's not worth breeding......NO


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

He might have cost you $500. But is he actually worth that? If he's got the properties of a worthy stud he ought to be worth way more ...

I'm not saying that I think every horse has to be Olympic quality, though I wish they were! But I do think they have to be pretty **** good and proven as a good horse. If you breed ones that are decent for general riding and so on, you might get more horses that are good for general riding and so on. But you're also opening up the door for lesser horses to be bred to the decent horses, producing ones that are not really that good ...

It makes sense, to me, to breed the best ones you can so that the whole stock improves and even the cheaper horses are better.

As for going to Mexico - I'm in the UK myself, but in the US cheap ugly horses are often bought at auction and shipped to Canada and Mexico to be slaughtered for meat. Many people are opposed to this because of the awful conditions faced by the horses on the journey and in the slaughterhouses.


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## americancowgurl31391 (Jul 9, 2007)

ScoutRacer said:


> oblivious?
> 
> the only thing I am speaking out against is all of you people who think a horse has to be a god of horses to breed. I think it is such bull that everyone thinks that a horse has to have insane confirmation to be worth breeding.
> 
> ...


Yes do you need the definition of oblivious?? There is nothing wrong with you wanting a pinto but color has nothing to do with how good a horse is.I am well aware of what homozygous means, but thanks for the definition lesson. Obviously if you havent heard of all the horses going to mexico, you are oblivious. We wanted slaughter houses banned in the US and we got it but now all those horses that would have gone to slaughter here and now being shipped to inhumane mexican slaughter. And although how much money a horse costs doesnt always determine the quality, how much quality could a $500 horse really have??

It honestly seems like you would want a stallion for ego purposes.

And for your original question, as people have stated many times, are generally harder to keep. They require more attention and they need a job to focus on. Yes there are stallions out there that can be taken on group rides and be around mares but that requires extensive training. Most stallions are more focused on the mare in the next pen over while you try and ride them. You need stronger and taller fences.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Just to comment:

To those saying 'mind your own business', go to a horse auction where horses are bound for slaughter.

The majority of them are fine. The majority of them are not sick and lame, the majority of them are actually trained. Why? Because someone just 'had to have a foal' or 'had to breed their stud'.

Normally, if you wanted to breed a foal, then to each there own. But there are too many mediocre horses running around, and with feed and hay as outrageous as they are, _those are the horses going to slaughter_. So when you breed a horse just because you want to and not to _better the breed_, remember that the baby will probably, five or ten years down the line, end up on a double decker headed to mexico. Don't like the image? Then don't breed.

There are PLENTY of good horses. A stud bought for 500? I'm glad he doesn't have his balls; he shouldn't be breeding for color because there are plenty of horses with color that have _amazing show records and conformation_.

And you've never heard of a horse going to Mexico from your state? HAHAHA! Open up your eyes, honey! They got to Mexico from EVERY state! Just because you don't go to the run down auctions doesn't mean they don't exist!

Just another BYB getting a baby because 'they want it'. THATS where the 'ego' comes in, my dear. You breed to BETTER a breed and to make horses worth something. Not because you have a 'nice horse' and you 'want one'.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

wow I thought this forum had some intelligent people but I guess I was wrong. If I want a horse from a stud or mare I have I don't care how many horses are going to slaughter and to tell you the truth I don't care if my stallion or mare are not up to your stuck up "improving" the breed standards. I take care of my horses and if I Was to breed a horse to keep the colt that is what I'd do... It wouldn't end up in a double decker...... are you kidding me. Some of you people just try to hard to impress yourself and others of how you feel about horses. And if I want to get a stallion because of my ego well then I'll do it. Maybe I'll keep 100 stallions who cares you shouldn't care because it does not affect you. 

Wow I am so done with this shady forum


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## geewillikers (May 4, 2008)

Ugh, that last post was just plain depressing


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Hey guys! This is a great topic but I noticed that it's getting a little heated. Please remember The Horse Forums Conscientious Etiquette Policy when you post your responses. Be sure to be respectful of each others opinions as everyone has a right to share them.


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## Merel (Apr 17, 2008)

At the stables my horse and I ride, they have a stallion that walks around with the mares(while training), stand next to the mares in his stable and he gives no troubles, he doesn't even awknoledge them! But the geldings do, when the mares are on their 'period' the geldings are restless, the stallion doesn't give a care. (Edited for language)

It depends on the horse's character itself. And of course the education/training you give the horse.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

FutureVetGirl said:


> So please stop all your bigotry of them.
> .


How about you open YOUR mind to others' views? Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.
I find your posts to be highly offensive, FVG - could you please tone down your language? 

This IS a heated topic. Perhaps in Siberia horse overpopulation isn't a big problem, but here in North America, it is... and overbreeding is the problem. So yes, I have a HUGE problem with people breeding not-top-quality horses.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

ScoutRacer said:


> wow I thought this forum had some intelligent people but I guess I was wrong. If I want a horse from a stud or mare I have I don't care how many horses are going to slaughter and to tell you the truth I don't care if my stallion or mare are not up to your stuck up "improving" the breed standards. I take care of my horses and if I Was to breed a horse to keep the colt that is what I'd do... It wouldn't end up in a double decker...... are you kidding me. Some of you people just try to hard to impress yourself and others of how you feel about horses. And if I want to get a stallion because of my ego well then I'll do it. Maybe I'll keep 100 stallions who cares you shouldn't care because it does not affect you.
> 
> Wow I am so done with this shady forum


In all honesty, you're trying to live in a world of daisies and rainbows, where there's no consequence to breeding a $500 stallion..

99% of the good stallions out there will sell for more than $5000 (as a weanling) if they're worth their manhood.


I am done with this thread, it's rediculous.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

mayfieldk said:


> Just to comment:
> 
> To those saying 'mind your own business', go to a horse auction where horses are bound for slaughter.
> 
> ...


Brilliantly said, MayfieldK.


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## Brandon (Jan 17, 2008)

MayField that was well said. also ScoutRacer, you made this statement "I dont care how many horses are going to Slaughter." This gives me the impression that you pretty much only care about yourself and your horses. I believe its people with your kind of thinkin that has gotten the horse industry, atleast in USA, to the point of collapse. 

I think you should double think your thought process before you question the intelligence/experience of people on this forum. There are very knowledgable and experienced people on this forum, so please try and restrain yourself from bashin everyone on this forum and really makin yourself look bad.

However, with all that said these are most certainly YOUR horses, so you can do what you will with them. 

I would like to say though ScoutRacer, that horse in your avatar is a diffinent cutie.

Thanks,
brandon


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Thanks for agreeing with me guys; I was getting a little worried that I was the only one that thought that way!

In all honesty, look up how horses are slaughtered in Mexico. Find some auctions and see what's going to slaughter. (a lot of slaughter buyers will send teenagers in and pretend that Little Daisy is going to her 'forever home' to get cheaper prices). Yes, anyone CAN breed their horse... but in times like these... not everyone SHOULD.


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## Brandon (Jan 17, 2008)

I'd say if your not "Breedin to better the breed" then why not save a horse from the slaughter that matches the color or whatever you are lookin for? It would help the horse industry alot if people would stop breedin for the sake of breedin (not referin to you). 

To anwser your original question, I would say YES. Stallions need more attention. You can give a stallion the best trainin money can pay for, but he is still a horse. He is STILL unpredictable and he still has instincts.

If you want to breed then go ahead, nobody can stop you. I would just like you to consider what everyone is tryin to say and not shoot them down. Just because YOU havn't heard of slaughter happenin in your area or your state don't mean its not happenin, unless you can prove to me it doesn't. 

Thanks,
Brandon


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## AKPaintLover (May 26, 2007)

To the original question. Yes - keeping a stallion is more trouble than keeping other horses. My stallion is extremely well mannered and has a great disposition. He rides along side mares and geldings daily, is mistaken for a gelding at the shows and events I take him to on a regular basis. 

BUT I have to constantly be aware of all my surroundings while handling and riding him. I have to handle him defensively and anticipate mistakes in horsemanship that others will make that might cause a potential issue. I have to keep him in a separate pen to keep him from simply breeding at will or beating up the geldings. I have to stay dedicated to his training and cannot let him just sit. He also tends to go slower through his training because part of his mind is always on something else. 

People who see well mannered stallions and think it looks like they are easy to handle don't understand the behind the scenes training and effort that went into making that horse the way that he is (even one that started with a good disposition). 

Also, I am in love with paint horses, but it is naive to think that conformation, bloodlines, and performance record are not extremely important in each breeding decision. Color is icing on the cake, but there are other important things to consider.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

AKPaintLover said:


> To the original question. Yes - keeping a stallion is more trouble than keeping other horses. My stallion is extremely well mannered and has a great disposition. He rides along side mares and geldings daily, is mistaken for a gelding at the shows and events I take him to on a regular basis.
> 
> BUT I have to constantly be aware of all my surroundings while handling and riding him. I have to handle him defensively and anticipate mistakes in horsemanship that others will make that might cause a potential issue. I have to keep him in a separate pen to keep him from simply breeding at will or beating up the geldings. I have to stay dedicated to his training and cannot let him just sit. He also tends to go slower through his training because part of his mind is always on something else.
> 
> ...


Very well said and there isn't a word I disagree with.

The lucky ones start with a good disposition and it is our job to maintain it. The less than lucky ones start with more difficulties and if the stud is really worth putting in extra work on them and we are willing to do it, then there will be the possibility of having the same result.

The rest are gelded.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Well said, AK! 

You also have to consider all money you may have to put in him for training, good fence, and so on, and so on.

I'd also add what if you have to sell him down the road? Not too many people look at studs. Of course as said unless it's exceptional quality, show records, and so on. Otherwise it's a direct road to slaughter. But honestly I do not believe $500 horse has an exceptional quality to be a stud (it still can be very nice horse to ride though). 

This whole topic makes me somewhat sick. I know at least 2 "breeders" around who got paint studs with pretty good blood lines and lots of colors. But they are NOT exceptional and in fact not trained much either. Now they don't know what to do with those babies even though foals have lots of colors and all. Horses from one breeder will most probably go to auction to slaughter sooner or later (guy is very old). They are pretty nice looking horses but not more than that. I got one from him only because I felt sorry, but there are very few people who'd get completely wild yearling for that reason.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I almost want to stay out of this because it is so heated but I have to put my two cents in. 

First of all over breeding is a main issue. I certianly don't agree with these ranches that breed 40-100 horses and year and they have all these babies to sell for $300 that are eventually going to end up in a doulbe decker. These types of people are what are causing so much over breeding. I can think of about 35 of these ranches JUST in Alberta, how many more do you know? 

Secondly, breeding a horse for color is pathetic, but there is nothing wrong with it being a bonus. 

Thirdly it is stupid to say that a horse has to be a world champion just to breed. If that were the case then half of the people would not be able to afford a horse, actually more than that. Our stallion is not a world champion but he does have, conformation, athletic ability, disposition, pedigree and as a BONUS color. It's not his problem that I don't have the time (at the moment) to take him further. He is a great ranch horse and very well respected for his roping, cutting, penning, abilities and therefore people want his foals. He is only 6 years old and does have the potential to be a world champion, I just have not taken him there yet. We DO NOT overbreed, we have 1-3 foals a year and all of my foals go to approved homes only. I do sell my foals for an affordable price, because I'm a realist. Because I have my foals priced affordably ($800 for weanlings, $1200 for yearlings, and $2000+ for 2 and over) I have alot of interest in the foals. I will keep the babies as long as I have to in order for me to find them the best possible long terms home for them. 

Okay now my answer to your question, yes most stallions are harder to take care of than others. 

We bought our first stallion as an 11 yr old unbroke stud. We did not breed him but did keep him a stud for the next two years. The first time I went to spend time with him out in the pasture he bit me in the head...HARD. He was horrible with fences and would beat the crap out of anything else with 4 legs. We trained him, gelded him and now he is a kids horse. 

Beau our present stud is a very respectful well mannered boy. You do not have to have special fencing and he can run with the mares and foals with no issues. You can ride him around anything, and I mean anything with very little fussing (might scream now and again) However he CAN NOT run with the geldings. But as AKPaintlover said (great points) they are harder to train because alot of the time their minds aren't where they should be, just a common fact.


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

I keep saying this over and over... I know plenty of people locally who breed for color. OBVIOUSLY not ONLY color but if they want a paint they look to find a homozygous stud or broodmare to give them the paint they want. That is the extent of breeding for color... I don't see whats wrong with finding a good stud or broodmare that throws only color and getting a foal that way. It's just a 100% bonus because you know you are getting the color... I'm not saying I'd breed for color and if I don't get what I want I'm throwing the foal out the window.... I'd obviously keep the foal or sell it to a good owner.


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## Sara (Jul 6, 2007)

I think AK and Fehr pretty much answered your question. Both very good posts.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> He is a great ranch horse and very well respected for his roping, cutting, penning, abilities and therefore people want his foals. He is only 6 years old and does have the potential to be a world champion, I just have not taken him there yet. We DO NOT overbreed, we have 1-3 foals a year and all of my foals go to approved homes only.


Well, Fehr, you just said it. Your horse has a good confo, you TRAIN your horse(s), and it does have a potential too to go far. Somehow I do NOT think color was your 1st preference. :wink: Of course, not every stud will (and should) be a champion, but besides that there are PLENTY of things to consider when you leave them with balls. 
Keeping horse as a stud just to pop up babies with color is ridiculous! And I've seen too many so called breeders who's studs don't have even ground training (forget about riding in saddle!). That's just sick because you know those babies will end up on road to Mexico and you can just do nothing!


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

wow I have never had more people in my live misinterpret something I've said. Keeping a GREAT HORSE that is homozygous as a stallion so that it will throw all colored foals is what I am talking about. I see nothing wrong with a homozygous stallion... a lot of people want paints or pintos. I am one of them I am a paint/pinto person there is nothing wrong with that.


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

Fehr, you sound like you're a responsible breeder and stud owner. You've trained your horse so he's not one of the bad-tempered, uncontrollable studs, and you also recognise when a horse should be gelded. And if you're selling two year olds for over $2000 and that's 'affordable', it sounds like they're good quality. Are any of his foals old enough to compete yet? What are their records?


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

No Kitten Val color had nothing do to with it you are right. It was stickly a bonus with him and we would have bought him even if he was the color of mud. 

Claire thanks very much. None of his colts are old enough to compete yet, he has a two year old colt that will be a rope horse, a yearling filly (who I still have) I thought about keeping her but I just don't have the time to show her and get her to her full potential so she will be going. She probably won't be shown as a family has falling in love with her and if everything works out well they will buy her. This year he has a colt and a filly. The filly has been sold to become a barrel racer and the colt is still here and is for sale. I also forgot to mention I will be gelding ALL of his colts! 

Scout Racer, not to sound rude or crude or whatever but what breed is your colt?


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

Arabian/Saddlebred or national show horse


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

FehrGroundRanch said:


> No Kitten Val *color had nothing do to with it *you are right. It was stickly a bonus with him and we would have bought him even if he was the color of mud.


I was sure about it. Lol! You are certainly a responsible breeder from your posts and pics. I personally think (responsible) breeding is lots of responsibility and huge amount of pain in bum too.  I wouldn't be able to do it myself.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ScoutRacer, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with colored stud. "Coloring" is just extra feature which can raise price on babies and stud fee. Lots of people like bright-colored horses. It's all about conformation and I'd say training ability (athleticism).


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

yeah thats all I was trying to say... I never meant to come across that color was the most important thing in breeding.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I agree with that!


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## ScoutRacer (Aug 7, 2008)

quick question even tho it has nothing to do with the org. post.

what makes a better national show horse

Sire: Arabian 
Dam: Saddlebred

or

Sire: arabian/saddlebred
Dam: arabian/saddlebred


Also... would it matter what the Sire and Dam were meaning would it be better if the Sire was arabian or saddlebred vice versa for the Dam.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

you might want to start up a new thread... you might get more responses that way!

I don't know a whole lot about National Show Horses.... but my guess is that it depends entirely on the quality of the individual horses. A great Arab/SB is going to be better then a medicore Arab and mediocre SB, and other way around. I'm sure there are great and horrible horses in each category. But like I said, that's just a guess!


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

I couldn't tell you at all. I love Arabians but I'm not a fan of saddlebreds at all..so I have no idea.


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## GiddyUpGirl (Aug 5, 2008)

ok im going to answer your original question and forget about all the rest of the breeding talk because that got a little out of hand lol. first of all every stallion is different. i work at a stud and equestrian centre and we have 4 stallions who can i just say are COMPLETE gentlemen. i groom for my boss and i work with them all every day its not very often that they put a foot wrong. 2 of the 4 stallions can be ridden by my bosses daughter who is 7 off the lunge happy to just plod around the arena of course this is always supervised but its just proof of how quiet they can be. on the other hand we had a stallion about a year ago now who was so hot headed he would lunge at you as you walked past the stable and many times taken nice chunks out of peoples arms and backs! he was impossible to be broken in so he was gelded. hes now a completely different horse so amazing the difference it makes! Stallions think completely different to mares and geldings you always have to be one step ahead of them because they are constantly testing you, to see what they can get away with and not only that theyre alot more unpredictible. Before you decide to breed a stallion you have to really seriously about it have you got someone with experience in this area if something goes wrong with training or anything? they are a massive resposibilty you cant just decide your over it and you cant be bothered with it because your too tired that day.. they require alot of training and patience. Whatever you decide to do is completely up to you but make sure you at least have someone to turn to if something goes wrong or anything like that because you need to be prepared for all situations!!


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## LuLu (Sep 11, 2007)

GiddyUpGirl said:


> ok im going to answer your original question and forget about all the rest of the breeding talk because that got a little out of hand lol. first of all every stallion is different. i work at a stud and equestrian centre and we have 4 stallions who can i just say are COMPLETE gentlemen. i groom for my boss and i work with them all every day its not very often that they put a foot wrong. 2 of the 4 stallions can be ridden by my bosses daughter who is 7 off the lunge happy to just plod around the arena of course this is always supervised but its just proof of how quiet they can be. on the other hand we had a stallion about a year ago now who was so hot headed he would lunge at you as you walked past the stable and many times taken nice chunks out of peoples arms and backs! he was impossible to be broken in so he was gelded. hes now a completely different horse so amazing the difference it makes! Stallions think completely different to mares and geldings you always have to be one step ahead of them because they are constantly testing you, to see what they can get away with and not only that theyre alot more unpredictible. Before you decide to breed a stallion you have to really seriously about it have you got someone with experience in this area if something goes wrong with training or anything? they are a massive resposibilty you cant just decide your over it and you cant be bothered with it because your too tired that day.. they require alot of training and patience. Whatever you decide to do is completely up to you but make sure you at least have someone to turn to if something goes wrong or anything like that because you need to be prepared for all situations!!


Very well said!!!!


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## Vicizmax (Aug 11, 2008)

Well, it depends, but really, no!
My friend has had 3 stallions and she can walk by a mare with just a halter and rope on him! Of course he gets excited, but she can still hold him! xD
But of course, you shouldn't walk with just a halter and rope on a stallion, better have a chain on.. o.o
My friend could hold her stallion by a mare with a halter, but she's pretty strong too and of course it was risky and she should have really had a chain ..


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

....I geuss I'll post....

My trainer has a stud, he's an arab, old as can be. He slams into his stall whenever you walk past with a horse (no matter the sex), he is really scary the way he squeels and thrashes around, I mean, he's like a total killer! But then. When my trainer walks into his stall, she jiggles his halter, he comes right up and drops his head. She can lead him out of the stall, pass mares in heat, ponys, geldings, anything, he walks beside him like the most gentle thing in the world. She can ride him in the ring with any horse, she even let me ride him in a lesson and at first I was intimidated because I've seen the way he slams into the stall, I've seen him break the door! But that is HIS space, where he is allowed to be a stallion. Outside of his space, is my trainers space, where he is a horse. 

So my thoughts are that if a stallion is handled and trained properly he can be safe. But he really needs to be treated differently because he's not "just a horse". He's a stallion, and I also believe that stallions should be left to the professionals... just my opinion though....


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## dustytrailzz (May 25, 2008)

*stallion or no?*

I've worked with Arabians for many years. I see alot of pretty faces, but even more so I see bad minds, long backs, bad feet and crooked legs. This comes as a result of breeding for 'a pretty face'. When you breed for one trait (in your case-color) Everything else thats truly important to breed a good horse gets waysided. Most half arab or NSH colts that are born are generally gelded because they are not purebred. I do not know of any professionals that would consider breeding their purebred mares to a halfbreed stallion. Stallions are ALOT of work. They can be especially dangerous during breeding, not to mention the work it takes to clean their 'parts' before breeding. I would suggest if you truly want to keep him a stallion, ask the advice of some local Professionals and see if he is worth it. The price you paid doesn't mean he's worth more or less. His conformation and his temperament will make him worth far more than his color alone. Most of the folks on this post are trying to help you out. If you do not plan to breed him, your horse would be far happier and easier for you to train as a gelding. Good luck.


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## tartessian (Aug 20, 2008)

A well trained an educated stallion normally has not troubles, my horses are stallions , only you must be his leader, if not, he will try to be. He must know when he is working he must respect the other horses, specially mares, of course, not all stallions has the same temper, they are gentle and sweet, another ones has a strong temper, in this case, you have to keep an eye in him all the time to manage your horse in all circunstances. 
María.


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## ArticMyst (Jul 8, 2008)

If you have never been around a stallion then I suggest you do, before deciding that you want to keep one or not. 

We have 5 on our property all of them are very well mannered and you would not know that they were studs unless you looked. Most people that come across them don't give them a second glance. This comes from 
1. being lucky in having well minded horses.
2. treating them as horses and not some monster because he has been left intact.
3. They are all allowed to socialize with other horses and are out in the pasture 15hrs or so. 

One of our stallions is turned out with my gelding and they are great buddies. Most of the time its my gelding that bosses the stud around. Sometimes theres little squabbles but you have that anyway. 

2 of the 5 are miniature horses, both of which are studs and brothers. They are out together and would be quite upset to be separated. They are probably 2 of the friendlies little guys you would meet. Its pretty much their own little bachelor herd. 

Many people are anti stallion and some have a reason to be others are just going off of what they have been told. The truth of the matter is you would have to be around them to decide for yourself. I use to say that the only good stallion is a gelding. I have since changed my mind on that. These stallions however belong to my boyfriend who is in equine reproduction. He has handled stallions of many breeds and temperaments. I will probably never own one myself.


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## Whipple (Feb 2, 2009)

This is my theory, if you are going to breed a horse, be prepared to take back the offspring at any point. That is being responsible. I wouldnt expect anything less from a dog breeder, cat breeder, or horse breeder. If you are willing to do that, then breed whatever and however many horses you want.


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## close2prfct (Mar 9, 2009)

I own a 2yr old colt, and for the sake of argument I am not gelding him any time soon. He's young he's still developing and he has yet to be trained. If he does not meet my expectations of what a horse should be in a couple years, you bet he will be gelded. 
Now to the OP: I have been around a ton of stallions most were easy to handle, I've owned 2 and both were a lot easier to handle than my mares. I have also been around some that would just as soon kill you as to see you enter their stall or paddock. I will not tell you to geld your horse I think that is absurd if he comes from exceptional lineage and has himself proven to do well in shows, he is still young and has not reached his full potential. Who is to say that he isn't some world champion someday?


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## guitar756 (Mar 24, 2009)

I know a stallion that is kept next to two mares. He is a bully sometimes and really doesn't like to be fooled with. From what ive been told he has settled down a bit since they got him, but that was after lots of work and time spent with him.


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## xeventer17 (Jan 26, 2009)

yeah. stallions can be a handful at times cuzza all that testosterone and such, but i know plenty of stallions that are so docile you'd automatically assume they were geldings if you didn't look into it more. it just depends on how well you train them as babies and also just on the specific horse.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> *I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with keeping a horse a stallion even IF you're not planning to breed.*


 



> Sure... overbreeding is happening a lot in owners who really don't know much about horses, and just want a cute foal around (until it grows up). There's the *same problem* with puppies. *What do you do? Encourage to spay and neuter, or, if people really do want that, be RESPONSIBLE.*


 
Um, a bit of contradiction here… You say we should encourage spaying and neutering of puppies, but you don’t see anything wrong with doing the exact opposite with horses, BUT you say it’s the same problem? Well I’m lost.

There’s a reason why now in my state and numerous others in AUS it is ILLEGAL to have entire dogs unless you have a registered breeding operation and prefix. TO STOP THE OVERPOPULATION. You say it’s the same as the horse problem. THEN THE SAME SHOULD APPLY!!!!

We are not saying that breeding is bad. We are not saying stallions are evil. We are saying the exact same thing as you have said and contradicted. It needs to be responsible. Keeping a horse a stud for the sake of it, is NOT responsible. What if he gets out of his pen and breeds a mare? What if he injures someone one day simply because your attention was away for a second? What if he injures himself because they pretty filly over there was flirting and he had to get over that fence? These are all possibilities. Are they worth little enough that you can disregard them? I know for certain I couldn’t.

Scoutracer, YES a stallion is more trouble to keep than a mare or a gelding. They were created for two purposes. 1. To breed. And breed. 2. To protect, which equals aggressive tendencies. Yes, these natural instincts can be MANAGED, but they cannot be REMOVED. They are there in even the most docile stud. You always need to be aware. You need to allow for other peoples management of their horses, not just yours. You need to have the time to properly and consistently train your stud. You need to have the money and the facilities to create a safe environment, not just for any other horses, but for people around him and for himself. 


End Note: I don’t believe stallions need to world champions to be bred. They DO need to have incredible conformation, a good mind, a decent amount of training, and good breeding. Plus, there are many horses that are out of world champion horses that are simply not world champion material. They are still sound, well conformed, well minded horses that sell or the same price as the same not out of world champion horses.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Wow this is an old topic. 
I stand by what I said originally


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## southerncowgirl93 (Feb 5, 2009)

it isn't that bad. I worked at a barn last summer and rode stallions that were sweeter than some of the mares! lol


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

That depends on the individual horse, how well trained they are, and how well you know what you're doing. I know plenty of well-behaved stallions that are perfect gentlemen. You _always_ have to be cautious around mares, though. 

There _are_ stallions that are nuts and just a pain in the **** to handle. Those are the ones who have bad temperaments and/or poor training.

I don't see any point in keeping a stallion intact if you don't breed him, though. And if you do plan on breeding, it needs to be a top notch stud and not just some "decent enough" horse. And you really have to know what you're doing and not just breed to any mare who's owner can cough up the money. That's incredibly irresponsible. The only reason anyone should breed any animal is to strive to produce a better animal than you started with and showcase the qualities of that particular breed. 

If you don't breed, I'd just as soon geld him so you'd have more freedom with him and he can go out and socialize with the other horses. Plus you wouldn't have to be on your toes constantly when you're out riding or simply handling him around other horses (particularly mares and other stallions). Stallions generally aren't as reliable as geldings, no matter what kind of disposition or schooling they have. I do know some stallions that have a gelding as a pasture mate, though.


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## secret5 (Mar 14, 2009)

ScoutRacer said:


> I've wanted to raise a colt to become a stallion for a long time now, but I keep getting crap from my girl friend about having a stallion.
> 
> I am just wondering if stallions are really that hard to keep and deal with?
> 
> ...




I have 5 stallions and 15 mares and 10 gelding. 3 of stallions are pastured together one is 12 yr.old, one is 5 yr.old and one is 4 yr. old and are all kept with the gelding. The other 2 stallions are kept alone one because of EMND and the other because I bought him as a 8 yr.old and he just ran with mares and was never handled, but his training is coming around. I can put him and my friesian stallion together and all is fine,but he needs a lot more controled socializing before moving to the herd.All of my stallions are used for breeding and they also have jobs. People tell me that you can't keep stallions together and I know first hand that you can.....but you must know what you are doing. Stallions are like super athletes on steroids x 500. They require a lot of one one and they absolutely need a job and not just in the breeding shed. They are very social creatures so the more you socialize the better. But one must remember they are still stallions and be treated as such it only takes a split second for things to go horribly wrong. So do your homework and be prepared to spend a lot of time with your stallion. Enjoy


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