# My first emergency dismount, from Mia...while at a full stop!



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Today was supposed to be my second day checking out Mia in a new bit. It turned into the day I first practiced an emergency dismount...from a total standstill. And it looks like a Motrin kind of night tonight...

Everything started off normal. Just a day for riding in the arena, since the wife & youngest daughter are out of state on vacation, and the two oldest are married and out of the house. Cleaned Mia off, saddled her up and mounted. sat still & scratched her withers. Scootched [_technical term for wiggled some_] to get my legs loose and deeper in the saddle. Started at a walk. Did some easy turns. Neck reining well. Then...

Well, I don't rightly know. She exploded. I instinctively pulled with the left rein because her balance is better to the left. We did a full 360, and continued around for another 180, since we stopped facing the opposite direction. Imagine a horse galloping in a 5 foot diameter circle. But she stopped.

Hmmm. What is wrong with this picture? Why is my left foot level with her back? Why is the saddle horn parallel to the horizon, and the saddle completely on her right side? It wasn't like this about 5 seconds ago!

She seemed to be wondering the same thing. I tried to get it upright, but no doing. I had tightened the saddle to its normal hole - one punched between the regular holes and the only one like it so it is impossible to miss. The saddle was on tight...and sideways. She was standing still, but she was obviously waiting for me to give her a good explanation, and getting concerned that I wasn't giving her one.

I wanted to say, "This is an advanced dressage technique, where you ride the right side of the horse. Later you switch to the left side, and that way your horse gets even exercise." But you know, I don't think Mia was going to buy it!

So with my left foot level with her back, and Mia becoming more concerned with time, I said to myself, "Bob, you're copulated!" I didn't use "copulate". I used another verb, one pithier and a bit more expressive of how I felt. "Do you know what an emergency dismount is, Mia?", I asked. Her ears were swiveled, but I felt the time for conversation was over. I slipped my feet out of the stirrups and pushed off as hard as I could onto the concrete floor of the arena.

Technically, it isn't concrete. Technically, it is Arizona dirt. Arizona dirt and concrete are, however, closely related!

Meanwhile, Mia practiced the emergency dismount part where she went a buckin' and a snortin' and a fartin' off past me as I rolled away from her. As I pulled myself up, I saw her sprinting for the place of ultimate safety - the corral. 

I limped over and took hold of the reins. Then I had a dumb idea. Imagine that - me with a dumb idea! Who would have guessed? I tried to upright the saddle from the ground. No doing. For one thing, the saddle was still tight. For another, Mia spun in a 360 around me and took off doing the whole "_a buckin' and a snortin' and a fartin' _" thing again. There are a lot of reasons why no one has ever called me "Twinkletoes"...I weebled and wobbled and did a slow motion fall on to some rocks. In the places that Arizona dirt isn't concrete, it is rock. In fact, the rocks may be the soft spots.

I pulled myself upright in time to see Mia fall flat on her side at a full gallop. She got up and galloped to the far side of the corral. I limped over again, and she started dancing around before I even got there, threatening to bolt. I was a bit perturbed by this point. "What Would Clinton Anderson Do?", I asked. Then I decided CA could go copulate. I picked up a rock about half again bigger than my fist, and chucked it at Mia. Caught her on her rump, and she took off again. I met her back at the point we had parted ways after I tried to shove the saddle upright, and she stopped next to me and hung her head. At least THAT was better! I would have asked, "What Would Parelli Do?", but I didn't have a carrot stick to shove up her nether regions.

So this time, I stood on the side where the nylon off-billet was. Nylon is slippery. I clipped the reins to the rope halter under her bridle (something I should have done earlier), and gently eased the nylon just off the tongue of the cinch. It wasn't easy, because the cinch was tight. When I finally got it loose, I stood back and let it drop.

Mia bolted east, but I was ready...I bolted north. When we both hit the end of the rein, she was spun around 180 facing the saddle on the ground. I rubbed her nose, told her it was OK, and put her in the corral.

The story will continue after some Motrin. I'm too old for days like these.


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## redpony (Apr 17, 2012)

Bwahahaha! Too funny, though I'm sure it wasn't on your end. Gotta love these crazy critters
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Seriously Bsms, that story made my week. Completely. Utterly. I'm sorry for your.... well.... experience but that's for the laugh. This copulating week has just been (insert multiple expletives here that were not nearly as colorful as yours I'm sure) so thanks, go take your motrin and relax, you've earned it! ;-) 

Ps. I love the bit about you chucking the rock at her, I knew I wasn't the only one that did that! Oh Mia what are you up to this week?!? :lol:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I've done that, the " oh, why is my saddle suddenly 90 degrees off center with me half way to the ground, and can I climb back on? no, I cannot, so I'll just finish the fall . . " 

That one was easy, it was the one where I got instant chiropractic in June from a fall off of Z (17hh) at a trot. that's the one where I said internally , "I am REALLY too old to be doing this"

I think you did swimmingly, all in all. 

guess that mare needs some desensitizing to things around her tummy. glad you were not really hurt


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Bsms, if I ever get the chance, I would love to buy you a drink of your choice.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Now came the question of what to do next. They say you're supposed to mount up after a fall, but this was a strange one. Besides, my family is out of town. If things went bad, my neighbors probably wouldn't notice anything and I didn't want to take a chance on spending the night on the ground in our little arena.

The saddle lost one saddle string, but otherwise showed no damage. I put all my stuff back to where I normally tack her up, then fetched her from the corral. She acted OK with the saddle pad going on her back. She was a little tense about the saddle going on, but not bad. Tightening the saddle was obviously harder on her nerves, so I tightened it one hole at a time and let her nibble on grass between times. When I got to the normal hole, I managed to tighten it one hole further...but that was all it was going unless I made a sacrifice to Thor to give me extra strength.

Since I thought it unsafe to try riding her alone, I led her for a walk around the block and then some...about a mile total. She was surprisingly calm at that point. She did a prancing trot a couple of times, but only momentarily...and Mia prancing every 5-10 minutes for a few steps is utter unremarkable. I think it goes with her AHA registration. They'll pull her papers if she doesn't.

When I took the saddle off, she stood there nonchalantly, a cigarette hanging from one corner of her mouth, doing her Bogart impersonation. I asked her if she knew how to whistle. She snorted instead. Betty Bacall she is not. I put her back in the corral. Betty Bacall probably didn't have a corral, so I guess it is all fair.

No riding tomorrow, and maybe the next day. She had a pretty hard fall at a gallop and has lots of hair removed, and some superficial cuts. Nothing bad, less than what happens when the horses kick at each other...but I saw her slam into the ground. She walked fine, no sign of pain. but if her back feels like mine...no riding for a day or two. I'd also like to find someone who can hang around when I do ride again, just in case something bad happens. I plan on walking her in her saddle and bit during the next couple of days.

I don't really think there will be a problem. The good news is that she DID stop, and stood still with the saddle completely on her right side. I actually tried to move it back into position while still on her, and she stayed still for that. For a horse with Mia's history, that is darn good.

It had nothing to do with the snaffle. Maybe with a curb I'd have tried to stop her in a straight line. I don't know. There was no time for conscious thought. There was an explosion. She may have started the left turn on her own. I don't remember. Looking at the tracks in the arena, the concrete has deep gouges where her hooves were powering us around. It isn't actually concrete, but those are the deepest hoof prints I've seen there in the 2 years since we built it.

Seriously, this is where I get discouraged with riding. I cannot think of ANYTHING that would have set her off. The neighborhood was quiet. No animals. No motorcycles, bicyclists or dogs. Nothing. This is why I don't dare to ride her in the desert by herself. If I needed to bail off to one side, I might well need to bail off into some really nasty cactus.

If the saddle hadn't slipped, I wouldn't think much about it. My left foot may have been at the level of her back, but my rump was still mostly over her back even with the saddle off the side. Totally off the side. So for a recreational, just for fun kind of rider, I think I did OK. But at 55, I don't need very many days like today...



tinyliny said:


> ...guess that mare needs some desensitizing to things around her tummy. glad you were not really hurt


The lady who broke Lilly from a start and worked with Mia normally teaches the horse what to do when the saddle goes sideways. I may give her a call and ask for advice...she's a hopelessly nice woman who loves horses and has saved my family's collective butt more than once as we learned about horses.

In a way, I've very proud that Mia did stop and stand still. Until I bailed, she didn't move a foot while I was on her with the sideways saddle. There was a time in her life that she would NOT have stood still, and just run at full speed with diarrhea squirting out the back.

I believe in breaking down training into small steps. So maybe I'll walk her with her tack on for a few days until I can get someone to watch. Then mount her with someone holding her head. Nothing went wrong during the mount, so I don't think it will be a problem. And then, ride her at a walk with someone around. 

Given how hard she hit the ground, I don't think it would be fair to ask anything more than a walk out of her for a few days. In fact, given how hard *I* hit the ground, it may not be fair to me, either!


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Man, oh man, I feel for you. But I do love the way you spin a yarn.


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## tinaev (Dec 2, 2012)

I love the fact that you can write about that experience with humor. Mia is really lucky to have you around. :lol: 

I hope all of your bruises heal up soon and you can get back up there and try to figure out what went wrong.


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## Cacowgirl (Feb 19, 2011)

So sorry to hear of your mis-adventure w/Mia. I follow her antics closely, as I have a soft spot for pretty little bay Arab mares. ( I had mine for 17 years) I hear you about the hard AZ. dirt & the cactus-when I ride w/my neighbor-she likes to go off-road- I become super watchful for that horrible prickly stuff-I don't want it in me or in my horse-Yuck!

So, I hope you had a good, long soak in a hot tub w/Epsom salt-it really helps! I think your idea of just tacking up & walking around for awhile is a great idea, as both of you regain some good feelings towards each other. If I lived closer, I would come & ride w/you, as I have a lovely Morgan mare that is an excellent trail horse and she would have no problem keeping up w/Mia.

Hope you feel better soon!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Look - you survived to tell the tale. What more do you want!!!!
Speaking as someone who has also suddenly realized that the world ahead of me was not at the right angle I can sympathise
Glad to hear you weren't too seriously hurt


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

> "What Would Clinton Anderson Do?", I asked. Then I decided CA could go copulate. I picked up a rock about half again bigger than my fist, and chucked it at Mia. Caught her on her rump, and she took off again. I met her back at the point we had parted ways after I tried to shove the saddle upright, and she stopped next to me and hung her head. At least THAT was better! I would have asked, "What Would Parelli Do?", but I didn't have a carrot stick to shove up her nether regions.


 I'm sick, at work while the sun shines and the weather is FINALLY(after over 4 months) decently warm, and feeling very sorry for myself. This post, and particularly the above quote, made my morning:lol:


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## mslady254 (May 21, 2013)

bsms said:


> .and Mia prancing every 5-10 minutes for a few steps is utter unremarkable. I think it goes with her AHA registration. They'll pull her papers if she doesn't.


Your first post had me laughing out loud. Love the way you described the details. Especially appreciate the above quote. 

Glad neither your or Mia are seriously injured. You handled the situation great ! 
Just wondering if a pre-ride groundwork session would maybe have shown you that she woke up on the wrong side of the pasture ?? or that something was bothering her tack-wise... (you said you cleaned her up, saddled her and mounted,,,no mention of any warm-up/checking her out...) Might not have made a hill-of-beans difference....but I always,always move Sonny around after being saddled to make sure ....

Hope you can figure out what made her blow up.
Fay


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## autumn rain (Sep 7, 2012)

So, BSMS, I totally feel your pain. I recently had the strange experience of having a brand spanking new cinch come apart as I was gently doing a gentle flat walk with my TWH mare.  Needless to say, I gently slid to the ground, saddle and all! How embarrassing! Not much harm done, though. But, to add insult to injury, when I returned said cinch to our local tack shop, they said, "Oh,yes, those cinches have been recalled. They're not safe." I gently thanked them for not letting me know sooner!


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Thanks to all for the sympathy. I ache today in parts I didn't know my body had!

Not warming Mia up didn't cause her spook. Mia...spooks. She used to habitually spook and bolt. A few years ago, it was so bad that after 2 hours of repeated bolting, I tied the rein tight on one side around the horn and dismounted before she could get straightened out. After that experience, she spent 8 months without riding until I was able to hire a pro to train her from the beginning.

So in some ways, yesterday showed she is getting better. She spooked, spun hard, and then stopped. And she then stood still for 20-30 seconds, with the saddle way over on her side and me trying to move it back into place...but I had no leverage and the saddle was tight enough in retrospect that I had no hope of straightening it. I couldn't think of any way to correct things without bailing, and I knew bailing would scare Mia...so I bailed and rolled.

What caused it? Well, I looked the saddle over this morning. The latigo is about 3 months old, but I've swapped back and forth between it and a nylon latigo, so it might have about 6-8 weeks of gentle use on it. This morning, the smooth surface has a bunch of cracks running across it and the leather above the cinch hole looks very different from the leather after the cinch hole. My guess is that the violence of the spin, combined with my trying to stay on, stretched the leather enough to let it slide over her withers. The surface breaks are minor, so maybe I now have a properly broken in latigo. Or maybe I'll go back to nylon...:?

Another possibility - and maybe some tack people can say - is that the mohair cinch stretched some too.

And maybe the hole I punched left the latigo a little too long, although I don't believe in pulling until the horse passes out. Or perhaps the latigo WAS stretching all along, so the 'normal hole' was no longer the 'right hole'!

The other good news is that Mia looks fine. She has a nasty looking scrape and a cut on one hip, but nothing that won't heal. No limping, no sign of soreness, etc. When I went out this morning, she strolled over and stood next to me, yawning and nuzzling my hand...so I guess popping her in the butt with the rock didn't traumatize her too much! 

I was feeling like quite the failure yesterday, but like jaydee said, I "_survived to tell the tale. What more do you want!!!!_" And apparently I'm not the only rider who has discovered his saddle has done something it wasn't supposed to do, and I didn't come off her back until I decided to come off her back. So maybe...maybe horses sometimes make most of us feel foolish or incompetent, and maybe that is why a person can spend more years than I have left in my life riding horses and still learn something new.

Now I'm just trying to figure out how all those young folks write cheerfully about bailing off a galloping horse, when bailing off a completely immobile horse kicked my butt so hard! I couldn't be getting old, could I? :evil:


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## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Great storytelling, bsms - perhaps you might want to consider a side career in publishing. I'm glad you are both reasonably sound after the adventure. Don't you just hate those surprise pop quizzes horses will throw at you? You did well on the quiz, nonetheless, even though you may not be feeling that way right now.


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## laurapratt01 (Oct 3, 2012)

Your first post had me literally laughing out loud! I'm glad you could find some humor in such a traumatic event!
I think that if you spend too much time thinking about what may have caused her to explode you're going to start assuming that she has problems that don't really exist. Horses spook, and Arabs spook A LOT. You mentioned the she was registered which means that she was probably bred to have a little bigger nostrils.. I'm sure that's where her brain slips out sometimes. I'm just kidding but seriously don't stress too much about it. It's good to be aware of how quickly she can move for future references but unless it becomes a common occurrence I wouldn't lose sleep over what could've provoked her to do it. You'll likely never find out. Mia sounds like a lady and ladies have to be a little mysterious to keep the magic alive 
Also, if she's like a lot of arabs her round back and lack of withers might have had more to do with her saddle slipping than anything else. Those kinds of horses are just about impossible keep a saddle centered on no matter how good the fit.
It sounds like you have a good plan of attack! Good luck and heal quickly!
Thanks for sharing! It definitely gave me a good laugh!


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

You said you were trying out a new bit. What did you do on the ground with the bit in her mouth to prepare her for a ride?


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

BSMS, that was such an entertaining, well-written post - maybe you could write a book about life with horses, or in the country in general. People love that sort of thing! Especially reading about other people's curly situations!

PS: Are you putting her back in her curb? ;-)


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

The new bit is just a D-ring snaffle with a Billy Allen mouthpiece. The mouthpiece is almost identical to the curb bit she has been using for a while, and I've always sometimes ridden her in a D-ring Waterford bit. I did a few minutes of ground work before the first ride, then rode her for an hour with the new bit doing turns and stops at a walk, then trot, and finally at a canter. She did fine. Yesterday was her second outing. She also did stop in just a few seconds with this bit, which is part of the good news. She has spent most of the last 15 months in a curb to help her with stopping when scared.

I may put her back in the curb for the next ride. My instinct with a curb is to pull straight back when she tries to bolt, and that has always stopped her in a few strides, including when she caught a cactus butt! With a snaffle, my instinct is to spin her around in a bolt, because if she builds up a head of steam on a trail with a snaffle, stopping her is...well, one of those words that get removed by the family friendly HF's software. It is easier to stay on a horse when stopping straight.

About 30 seconds before all hell broke loose, I remember thinking, "She really does neck rein better with a solid mouthpiece...". And she did stop completely with the snaffle - scared, but stopped, and in a snaffle that is essentially a mullen. So I think the training we did with the curb is carrying over to a snaffle. I was feeling pretty down last night, but there is some good news about yesterday's ride.

The bit I was using...if she'll stop in this, then she ought to stop in just about any snaffle:










Perhaps the lesson I needed to learn is not to trust "the right hole" because leather and cinches can stretch, or maybe the saddle isn't sitting quite the same or the pad is adjusted just a little different. I don't believe in saying, "Things happen". They do, but a prudent person tried to anticipate things and adjust his game plan accordingly. When something goes wrong with a ride, we need to think about why and how to make it go right in the future. Particularly at 55...:wink:​


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## Sahara (Jul 23, 2010)

So, you pulled with the left rein, moving her into a tight circle to the left, and your saddle slipped sideways to the right since your left leg was on her back, right? Hard to imagine how you managed to do that, but without watching it happen I would assume you were not balanced at all and heavily weighted your right side. I am kind of surprised you didn't pull her completely off balance. I doubt it was tack failure alone, but rather a combo of tack and a rider unable to stay balanced during that situation. Either way, I am glad to hear neither of you are worse for wear. Hope you get back in the saddle soon.


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## RhondaLynn (Jan 26, 2010)

Awww BSM.. great story telling. You need to write more!

I am sorry for the actual adventure, but from our perspective it was great!! I hope you can figure out what happened but you may never know. I also hope you have more tame adventures with Miss Mia. 

Keep us posted!
Rhonda


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Sahara said:


> So, you pulled with the left rein, moving her into a tight circle to the left, and your saddle slipped sideways to the right since your left leg was on her back, right? Hard to imagine how you managed to do that, but without watching it happen I would assume you were not balanced at all and heavily weighted your right side...


Yep. I was just neck reining a gentle left circle, and decided to see how much weight I could shove off her right side.

Um...no. She spooked, exploded, and I pulled left because that is what I always try to do when Mia spooks and explodes in a snaffle. Left is her best turn, and letting her bolt straight in a snaffle causes bad things to follow.

Judging from the gouge marks in the arena, she put a lot of power into that tight turn. When it ended 1.5 circles later, my body was still mostly over her back. Had my weight followed my saddle, I would not have had any choice about dismounting. I would already have fallen off.

However, during the next 20-30 seconds, it became obvious that I would not be able to get the saddle righted, and bad things would have happened if Mia DID bolt from that position. So I bailed. I'm actually proud of Mia for holding her ground that long, because that is a pretty unnatural thing and Mia doesn't like unnatural things. And to hold there seconds after a hard spook means she is learning to hold her place when scared. 

OK, we did 1.5 turns before she held her place, but that beats running around the arena with diarrhea squirting out the back. Been there, done that, multiple times.

Moments before the explosion, I was thinking of pulling my feet out and doing some no stirrup work. As it turned out, that probably would have been a bad time to try it...:?

I was also wearing a sweatshirt when it was 75 deg & sunny, so maybe being an Arizonan wimp helped me yesterday.


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## Beling (Nov 3, 2009)

I know that wasn't funny, but I too laughed out loud.

I have a part-Arabian who is usually very, very mellow. But a few times she's "freaked." To the point where I have almost no control, it's like she's lost her mind, in the grips of total anxiety. Most of the time, I can one-rein-stop her long enough to dismount. She also spins, like Mia, and the last time, I got thrown and broke an arm. (At 63 I'm WAY past this kind of riding!)

My approach is, if anything seems to go the LEAST bit out of character, I dismount. And try to find the reason my horse can no longer think. I've narrowed my problem down to the presence of my horse's previous owner, who usually rides her now-gelded Warmblood. Maybe it's the ex-stallion setting her off, I don't know. I got my horse partly because she'd bucked her owner off several times, so maybe she's just remembering that.

Anyway, I kind of don't think it was tack-related in your case. I also don't think it's a bad thing she fell. There's just nothing like a horse "losing his feet" to interrupt panic. It sounds awful, but I've seen it work.

But I'm sorry you had the hard falls! Take care!


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

Hahahaha I am totally rolling laughing here at work, you are a great writer! I have totally been there and done that, except it was when I was on my gelding who just stood there and looked at me like I was crazy or something.:lol: So glad neither of you were seriously hurt and hopefully you will be back to riding in no time.


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## updownrider (Mar 31, 2009)

The way you told the story is hilarious, and good for bailing! Smart move. But why did you throw a rock at her?


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## EquineObsessed (May 24, 2013)

Have you considered a career in writing? I'm in stitches right now (Glad you aren't, by the way!) Please make a member journal for you and Mia's adventures- or a book. I'd pay for it! Glad you are all right!


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## EponaLynn (Jul 16, 2013)

bsms said:


> Now I'm just trying to figure out how all those young folks write cheerfully about bailing off a galloping horse, when bailing off a completely immobile horse kicked my butt so hard! I couldn't be getting old, could I? :evil:


They don't all live in AZ, for a start 

Your story is great - so much fun to read and being 53 I can relate to wanting a smooth easy ride on a calm horse :shock:.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

updownrider said:


> ...But why did you throw a rock at her?


I wish I could claim it was some brilliant training move. But it wasn't. It was probably mostly frustration. 

Also, Mia normally runs to me the moment she sees me if something is wrong. So having her run away was frustrating. Having her act like she was about to continue running instead of coming to me even more so.

However, Mia & I have been together for over 5 years, and she reads me well. She understood that I expect her to come to me the way she expects our two geldings to come to her when things go wrong. She would be ****ed if they didn't, and I think she understood my anger - the whole, "if you want to run, I'll give you something to run about" kind of foolish anger.

It was not admirable. But since Mia & I have a long history together, and since we share a lot of our temperament, I think I got away with it. If I had to do it over, I wouldn't, so to speak. But one nice thing about owning a horse for some years is that the horse will often understand and forgive the unforgivable in us. That is why she strolled over this morning, yawned a couple of times next to me, nuzzled my hand, and then walked over to her food bucket and waited for me to bring her hay. It is probably why she walked contentedly at my side as I led her for a mile before returning her to her corral yesterday. One of the cool things about horses is that they are so understanding and forgiving, even when we do not deserve it.


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## ShadowRider (Feb 28, 2014)

There is nothing like sharing a bottle of Motrin with your horse after a 'successful' ride :lol: … 

Great story, but I'm glad you and Mia were not seriously hurt. I agree that the ground here in AZ is mostly nasty - unfortunately, I have already made contact with it several times in my short riding career. At least I have managed to stay out of the cacti so far … knock on wood ...


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

BSMS, so now what I want to know is: Why is it so essential to change a horse like that out of the curb that appeared to offer both of you the best chance of going unscathed? Are you training her up for a dressage competition? I personally hate spinning a spooking / bolting horse in a snaffle or attempting to do emergency stops. It's so much nicer for horse and self to nip spooking in the bud with a comfortable curb bit. I hate getting injuries and am no longer immortal. If it isn't broken, why fix it?


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

SueC said:


> BSMS, so now what I want to know is: Why is it so essential to change a horse like that out of the curb...? ...If it isn't broken, why fix it?


This will be a long answer, but I think it is a great question!

Why transition Mia to a snaffle bit?

My reasons certainly have nothing to do with any dislike of curb bits. The conventional wisdom is that a horse should be fully finished and completely obedient in a snaffle before transitioning to a curb. I reject that. In fact, I was banned from a horse forum for arguing that an average rider could transition an average horse to a curb bit without causing the horse to rear and flip...the English riders on that forum rejected it as heresy.

I actually think a good curb bit is a great bit for the average horse and rider, provided the rider uses the western approach of keeping slack in the reins unless giving a cue. From what I've seen, most western riders - the ones I respect, anyways - seem content to GIVE cues with some slack left in the reins, and almost never take all the slack out.

I actually think curb bits can be great bits for beginner riders, provided their instructor pulls them out of the saddle and makes them do pushups in the dirt every time they take the slack out of the reins. I think most beginners use the reins too much, not for balance, but out of fear that the horse will go too fast. Someone who is confident their horse will stop every time, right away, is free to let go of the reins and concentrate on leg and seat. All IMHO, but I think a good western curb bit is a great bit. Mylar makes a number of good designs. Billy Allens also seem gentle but effective. A smooth Jr Cow Horse - not one of the twisted wire ones - also seems like a good design.

So I like curb bits. But snaffles also have some strong points. I think a snaffle is the most intuitive design for a horse who needs to learn to flex laterally, or to tip his nose in during a turn (one of Mia's faults). It drops some of the advanced notice of a curb. In a Billy Allen curb, for example, the initial pull back on one rein starts to rotate that side of the bit with little back pressure. You have to pull further before the bridle tightens and the horse feels any pressure against the corner of its mouth. That advanced warning is an advantage of a curb design.

But for Mia, who believes the world is full of straight lines, and who has horrible lateral flexibility (she spins well but doesn't turn well), a snaffle should help me train her to use her body better in a turn. It also gives me a chance to see how well trained she is getting at stopping. I define training as building a habit of obedience so strong that the horse will obey the cue without thinking, even when scared or reluctant. By alternating between very similar style curbs and snaffle, both Billy Allen style designs, I hope to find out the training has carried over and she will stop reliably straight ahead in a snaffle. If she will, then that would give me even more confidence while riding her in a curb.

The "Old and New bits":








​ 
I dislike stopping a bolt by turning the horse hard in a snaffle. I've been able to do it with Mia on the trail if I jump in her mouth fast enough and hard enough...but there is nothing gentle about that, and the trauma of the struggle confirms her in her fear. That is why I've come to love a curb.

However, another bad habit Mia has is backing up. If she decides she really dislikes what lies ahead, she throws it in reverse. Smacking her hard on the rump with a heavy leather strap will not change her mind...she only accelerates backwards. Been there, done that. So when she throws it in reverse on a trail, where bad things may lie behind her, I want to be able to spin her around and at least get her looking where she is going. We can always turn around and try the bad thing again...usually with Trooper taking the lead long enough to show her it isn't bad.

I can do that in a curb, but I think a snaffle would be a better bit for that specific situation - getting a horse to do a 180 when you have no more than 5 feet of space to do it in. If she truly develops a solid stop in a snaffle, as in right now and straight ahead, then a snaffle would become a good choice for a trail ride.

If not, she can remain in a curb for the rest of her life. My birthday is next month. For #56, I might splurge and buy myself one of the Mylar bits with both a medium port and a roller. Used properly with a horse who understands it, a bit like that can be very gentle, very forgiving and a very good communication tool between horse and rider.

But snaffles can also be great bits. Ultimately, a few years from now, if everything goes right, I'd like to transition Mia to a high-quality leather sidepull, preferably custom made for her face. Not because curb bits are mean, but because success would mean she had been trained to listen and respond to her rider's wishes...that 'willing submission' that dressage talks about. Willing or (better still) enthusiastic submission is the goal of most good riders. If Mia & I ever get there, it will be after a long hard road. But it would also mean a horse [Mia] who was a horrible choice for a beginner rider [Me] had become a good choice for one...and that would put a big smile on my face!


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

Hey BSMS, I see! Yes, snaffles are way better for turning. What an idiosyncratic horse you have - perhaps this would be a good argument for the use of a double bridle outside of an advanced dressage arena, so you can truly have and use both snaffle and curb...




bsms said:


> My reasons certainly have nothing to do with any dislike of curb bits. The conventional wisdom is that a horse should be fully finished and completely obedient in a snaffle before transitioning to a curb. I reject that. In fact, I was banned from a horse forum for arguing that an average rider could transition an average horse to a curb bit without causing the horse to rear and flip...the English riders on that forum rejected it as heresy.


Hhmm yes, sometimes you come up against "religion" like that in horse circles. I'm with you on that one. People sometimes don't look at practices in other traditions and see that they work, and they are disinclined to experiment. Outside the English riding tradition, there are plenty of places curb bits were standard repertoire and used on green horses and also by little kids and average riders.

As a kid I read a dressage / horsemanship book by a German dressage commentator who made a point of showing happy little kids riding happy huge horses in pelhams, and explaining how this improved safety in this case, and how a curb bit wasn't actually "sharp" in action, quite the opposite.

Later I read an excellent book on bits and horses by late Australian horseman Tom Roberts, where (amongst myriads of other interesting things) he too debunked the myths about curb bits and explained how they actually spread the effects of rein action both through space and time, resulting in gradual action with lots of advance notice compared to a snaffle, and reducing bumps to the sensitive bars of the mouth from unsteady novice hands.

On an "upside down" horse a curb bit can be an excellent early training aid. On a horse inclined to startle or bolt, it's a good choice for early intervention, especially on trails, at least until it gets over its nerves.

I'm not trying to paint a curb as "the perfect bit" here, I'm just pointing out some of its advantages. Choice of bit or non-bit is a really individual thing and depends on rider and horse. Different bits and non-bits have different strengths and weaknesses. Reading Tom Roberts' book "Horse Control and the Bit" got me thinking in totally different ways about horses and bits. I've ridden in snaffles, curbs, low-leverage hackamores, halters - and I think they all have their place.

A curb causing a horse to rear and flip? What a strange idea...




> I actually think curb bits can be great bits for beginner riders, provided their instructor pulls them out of the saddle and makes them do pushups in the dirt every time they take the slack out of the reins.


:lol: That certainly improves focus and cardiovascular fitness at the same time. :lol: Alternatively, you can go in mild, low-leverage curbs and have light flexible contact. My Spanish Snaffle (which is not a snaffle, it's a port-mouth bit with slotted D-rings where you can choose mild or very mild curb action depending on the slot) is a compromise bit which allows me to maintain light contact with the horse's mouth and get him to go "on the bit", something I couldn't do, for example, on the curb rein of a pelham bit (which is what the "snaffle" rein is for on a pelham). But on trails, I often don't look for that level of contact. It's mainly when I want some finesse.




> I think most beginners use the reins too much, not for balance, but out of fear that the horse will go too fast. Someone who is confident their horse will stop every time, right away, is free to let go of the reins and concentrate on leg and seat.


Totally agree - a lot of beginners see their reins as mechanical brakes, when that is completely not what they are. When I lunge a total beginner rider I have been known to transfer their reins into the stable halter dees so they can work on trying to maintain light contact on the reins (which requires lots of give in the arms / "rubber arms") without hurting the horse, something that is particularly difficult for a person learning to trot. If we can isolate some of the many things a beginning rider has to learn to do and have them focus on a few things at a time that can often help them - such as working on the seat without having to worry about stopping the horse.

There are some places that start their riders bitless (doing group arena work) for similar reasons, and only transfer them to bits later.

I like the designs of the bits you've posted pictures of. Do your horses get into rolling the middle ring with their tongues?




> But snaffles can also be great bits. Ultimately, a few years from now, if everything goes right, I'd like to transition Mia to a high-quality leather sidepull, preferably custom made for her face. Not because curb bits are mean, but because success would mean she had been trained to listen and respond to her rider's wishes...that 'willing submission' that dressage talks about. Willing or (better still) enthusiastic submission is the goal of most good riders. If Mia & I ever get there, it will be after a long hard road. But it would also mean a horse [Mia] who was a horrible choice for a beginner rider [Me] had become a good choice for one...and that would put a big smile on my face!


All the best with continuing your horse's education. If every rider had your patience and sense, the "horse happiness index" would skyrocket. :smile:


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Yeah the story is cool & everything, but I am impressed by your amount of typing to tell that and reply to everyone! Kudos to you man!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Just a short update. I sent off to Steele to try their "Fit to the Horse" program:

Steele Saddle Tree LLC - Fit To The Horse

After talking with them, they sent me their "D" tree form. It seems to fit OK to me, although I plan to talk to the folks at Steele next week.








​ 
It turns out their "D" tree is almost a perfect match for the tree of our Circle Y Mojave saddle that both Trooper and Mia have used many times and seems to work well for them (not for me - it hurts my knees). However, comparing it to the CA/Martin saddle I used, it reveals...yes, the saddle is too wide, both horizontally and in angle. Padding up can make it comfortable enough for her, and she rides well in it, but it will also leave the saddle prone to slipping. Sooooo...I've had my Aussie saddle adjusted to fine tune its fit, and we're back to using it. At least, until I find a western saddle that fits both me and my horse.

It is frustrating. Two western saddles. One fits me beautifully, but doesn't match my horse. One fits my horse, but hurts my knees. Drat!


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## Zaphyrr (Oct 12, 2013)

I can relate a little bit with your story! I had a lesson this morning but obviously didn't have my girth done up tight enough. I ended up sideways at the canter (on the lunge). My poor horse couldn't work out what the heck I was doing! 
Fortunately I managed to do an emergency dismount and still end up on my feet


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## wild old thing (Jun 15, 2012)

mslady254 said:


> *Might not have made a hill-of-beans difference....but I always,always move Sonny around after being saddled to make sure ....
> *


B, I love reading your adventures with Mia - you're such a fun writer and you have a light heart. Reading this latest makes me wonder where or what I would have done. That is some experience. It's always something!

Girth walk girth walk girth last time <--thats me. (I figure a saddle slip is the one kind of fall I can avoid before I ever get on.) (hopefully)

I feel both your pain. She took a bad tumble too, poor crazy girl.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Mia actually did take a pretty bad fall. A section of skin about the size of my hand went bare, and one about the size of my palm eventually peeled off. I tried getting on her about a week later, and she spent several minutes dancing around and not wanting to stop. When I did get her stopped, I got off quickly. 

I figured there were two possible reasons why: 1) her back was still sore and it hurt for me to be on it, or 2) the whole thing scared her, and when she gets scared she doesn't like me to dismount. It is something I've gone thru with her many times...she's nervous, and I'd swear that she views my getting off as meaning I've decided to run away, and therefor she should run away too. She'll stop, but the feel of my leg moving for a dismount causes her to bolt before I can get off...NOT FUN. There have been several times where I ended up pulling the reins to one side, wrapping a couple of loops around the horn, and getting off during the second it takes her to get straightened out. Then she leaps forward, maybe knocking me down or maybe not, then she stops and looks at me as if to say, "_You aren't coming too?_" Then she comes and waits for me to make the 'bad thing' go away.

I managed to get very worried about riding her because those "_You can't leave me!_" moments always hurt. So a month later, when her skin had healed, I rode her again when my wife was around in case things went bad. I mounted, stiff and tense. 

Mia's response?"_Why have you been riding That Appy and not me? I'm much better looking! You sure seem tense. Is it the jogging you've been doing? Or did That Appy act badly for you? Oh well, you're with ME now! I'll walk and wait for you to relax. You want to do figure 8s? I don't...but since you're having a bad day, I guess we can. You've had this saddle adjusted for a better fit? For ME?! Why yes, it does fit better...but it is smaller than the western one. Does it make my butt look big? I mean, one wants to have a butt, but not too much butt, if you know what I mean. Glad to see you are starting to relax. Breathe deep and snort a few times...that helps me. Maybe you could put a copper penny in your mouth and pretend it is a roller. That helps me too. Shake your head back and forth, blow hard and sigh...works every time. Almost. You don't need to worry. I'll take care of us both!_" ​In short, after all my worrying and concern, she was content as could be just to be ridden again. No worrying about her saddle, she stopped fine, and she didn't fuss when I dismounted. That can be the trouble with fear. Sometimes it is rooted in reality, and needs to be listened to, while other times it is entirely in our imagination, and needs to be overcome. How does one know the difference?


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## wild old thing (Jun 15, 2012)

For some reason your relationship with Mia reminds me of Lucy and Ricky. (you being Ricky of course)


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## SueC (Feb 22, 2014)

For Mia:










(Norman Thelwell was a genius...)


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## Saddlebred11 (Mar 27, 2014)

The ability to laugh at one's self is the best trait in the copulating world!!


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