# black thats thrown buckskins, and duns



## nybarrelracer (Dec 5, 2006)

I just got the black stallion the has thrown more buckskins and duns than any other color. What dose this mean? He has thrown one sorrel, one chestnut, and one gray. here is a pic of him


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

we are missing a HUGE piece to the puzzle. 

what color mares was he bred to and what was the resulting foal color?
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## Freemare (Jun 2, 2012)

You have to remember that black is not a color that is passed down first when it comes to color. So if the mare was chestnut that color is more controlling then black so that color would take hold.


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## nybarrelracer (Dec 5, 2006)

I don't know what color mares he's ben bred to at all


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Freemare said:


> You have to remember that black is not a color that is passed down first when it comes to color. So if the mare was chestnut that color is more controlling then black so that color would take hold.



Ummm - this makes no sense? Black is dominant.

I agree - we need to know the color of the mares he was bred to in order to get a better idea of what is going on. If he is mostly bred to buckskin and dun mares the results would make sense. But lets say he was bred to a plain chestnut and the resulting foal was buckskin - that would be telling.


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## Tryst (Feb 8, 2012)

Also what color are his parents?

For him to throw buckskins either him or the mare must carry cream. Cream can hide on black quite well, as black and smokey black can visually look the same. For him to have cream one of his parents must have had cream too, otherwise it had to come from the mare.

Dun has to be coming from the mares, as he does not appear to be a grulla, so does not carry dun himself.

Gray same as dun. The mare must have been gray. 

In genetics terms sorrel and chestnut are the same. He must carry one red gene (Ee) to have red based offspring.

From what you have told us he must be Ee aa, but nothing further can be determined. Ee because he is black based, but has produced red based foals and aa because if he was anything else he would not be black.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Sorrel and chestnut are the same, genetically speaking. To get a chestnut baby I believe the mare would have to be black or chestnut, assuming your stallion is in fact black. Gray is dominant so since your horse is black, the mare he was bred to to get a grey foal was grey and passed that along.

(Not a color expert but that's my understanding)

If you're really concerned, get him color tested.
If you can get the registered names of the mares (if they're registered) or at least their colors and foal colors you might be able to get a color expert on here to give a good guess.
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Well if he had a cream based parent then he could be smokey black since cream doesn't dilute black (Incomplete dominant). If not then it was the mare's cream gene. He is obvious heterozygous black since he produced a sorrel foal. Dun is Dominant he is not dun so if he produced any dun foals then the mare was dun or the foals had baby counter shading and were mistaken as dun. Grey again is dominant so the mare had to be grey.
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Freemare said:


> You have to remember that black is not a color that is passed down first when it comes to color. So if the mare was chestnut that color is more controlling then black so that color would take hold.


This is so wrong sigh..... Black is dominant red is recessive for starters. The possibilities of foals inheriting red or black is dependent on the parents. If a horse is homozygous black the foal will always get a black gene, homozygous red ( sorrel) then they will always pass a red gene. Then if the horse is homozygous black it depends on what you breed with. But black is dominant over red.
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## nybarrelracer (Dec 5, 2006)

i looked it up and was able to find out that he was bred to one red dun I could not get the colors of the other mares.


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## jumanji321 (Dec 1, 2010)

What about his sire and dam? Do you know what colours they were?


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## nybarrelracer (Dec 5, 2006)

both of his parents are black.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Is be on all breed pedigree? I'd love to look at his papers and see if there's a chance for smokey black.
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## nybarrelracer (Dec 5, 2006)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/chances+black+gold
there is the link to his pedigree


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

No cream in there so I'd say it's all the mares. He's Ee heterozygous black and aa for no agouti since he isn't bay. So that will help you if you ever want to play with the color calculator.
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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

im surprised with all those blacks in his pedigree, he isnt homozygous black. :shock:
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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

I know I thought the same thing but he's produced a sorrel and the only way that's possible is if he has a red gene.
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## Southern Grace (Feb 15, 2013)

CLaPorte432 said:


> im surprised with all those blacks in his pedigree, he isnt homozygous black. :shock:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Genetics can hide for generations. Have you seen those things on Red Friesians? There's still a part of me screaming someone's just pulling a hood over my head, because after generations of strictly blacks two heterozygous horses had to make it through and be crossed, then, when the red mare threw a red colt, his sire had to be hetero too... just seems like a crazy shot in the dark that a single red gene can have managed to make it all the way down generations of black to black. But i guess it's a 50% chance each time, so it can happen.


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