# Walk to Canter



## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

Hi!
My horse is having trouble (sometimes) on walk to canter transitions, i tried spurs and they helped ALOT...but she dosnt do the transition every time!!! She dosnt like crops (Spooks, bucks, ETC) so i cant use one...

Any ideas???
Thanks!!


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## equineangel91 (Oct 8, 2008)

Crops and spurs are only temporary fixes for this and i dont really recomend it if its something youll have to use every time. The spurs are working because its emphasizing your leg, which is good, because its encouraging that asking. But you wont want to rly on them

my tip- over emphasize the bend...a lot. Like as soon as youre moving in that walk and you get in a corner, ask ask ask. put youre outside leg back even further than you would normally and really ask her. 

Be very sure that your aids are the same each and every time and are consitent. You need to tune your horse to you very specifically. That fine tuning is what makes for impeccable equitation and most certainly takes A LOT of practice. 

Reward her verbally strongly each time she really picks it up nicely. Try to collect the walk as much as possible to get that impulsion going forward and readily. Think of a dressage collected walk =P lol. make sure you have her 100% focus when you ask too.

i hope that helps a little bit. i think these are some very basic tips. maybe if you happen to have video? thatd be even more helpful we can pick out what might be the problem.


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## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

equineangel91 said:


> Crops and spurs are only temporary fixes for this and i dont really recomend it if its something youll have to use every time. The spurs are working because its emphasizing your leg, which is good, because its encouraging that asking. But you wont want to rly on them
> 
> my tip- over emphasize the bend...a lot. Like as soon as youre moving in that walk and you get in a corner, ask ask ask. put youre outside leg back even further than you would normally and really ask her.
> 
> ...


 Thank you!!! I will try that.
I do not have video-SORRY!!!!!! I think your advice will help alot!!

*VanillaBean*


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

I don't really know much about direct transitions, but a while back when I was working on them, my instructor made me do lots of figure-eights with simple changes - a true simple change involves a single stride of walk, not trot, so you have both upwards and downwards direct transitions.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

depending on your horse, some are more sensitive to cues than others. Some are taught the cue to canter differently where as others are dead sided from use of spurs or too much leg (my horse got like that for a while).
I am not certain which way is the "politically correct" way to ask for a canter, but here are different ways that I've seen horse's go into the canter:
1) Bringing your outside leg (the one by the fence/arena wall) back further
2) Leaning back and giving a tiny squeeze with your leg
3) Leaning forward and giving lots of rein
4) A mixture of any/all of the above

My horse knows #1 and #2, but he responds better to #2 because that was the way he was origianlly trained, and since I ride bareback, and neckrein him I find it easier for him to respond to #2 more-so than #1


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## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

SonnyWimps said:


> depending on your horse, some are more sensitive to cues than others. Some are taught the cue to canter differently where as others are dead sided from use of spurs or too much leg (my horse got like that for a while).
> I am not certain which way is the "politically correct" way to ask for a canter, but here are different ways that I've seen horse's go into the canter:
> 1) Bringing your outside leg (the one by the fence/arena wall) back further
> 2) Leaning back and giving a tiny squeeze with your leg
> ...


 Thanks, I'll try those next time i ride

PS I go bareback too!!!!


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

I've always been taught that the correct way for someone who is not a super experienced rider on a very educated horse to ask for canter is:

- slide outside leg back
- bring inside leg onto girth
- sit if trotting
- squeeze/kick

However, old school horses respond to sitting trot + kick, or a really hard or repeated kick from walk.

The leg signals cue the horse as to which lead they need to take up, though obviously it's best to ask for canter while in a circle or turn to make it easier for them to pick up the inside lead.

I ride English, of course, but I was getting told off for letting my reins go slack in canter transitions. If you're riding English you should maintain an even contact throughout any transition.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

VanillaBean said:


> Thanks, I'll try those next time i ride
> 
> PS I go bareback too!!!!


If you go bareback I find #2 is easier...but that's just me.

I do not feel kicking a horse is good to get a horse to go faster. It will just make them hard sided and they won't listen to your leg cues at all.


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

Well, a kick is necessary on an old lesson horse!


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

a kick is never necessary


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## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

SonnyWimps said:


> If you go bareback I find #2 is easier...but that's just me.
> 
> I do not feel kicking a horse is good to get a horse to go faster. It will just make them hard sided and they won't listen to your leg cues at all.


 I agree, squeeze one leg then the other works rly well!!!


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## claireauriga (Jun 24, 2008)

Well, with lesson horses who are used to being ridden by people of varying abilities from total beginner up to pretty decent ... at my old stables they work on a principle of:

1. Squeeze.
2. If horse does not respond, give a sharper nudge/kick with heels or whole leg.
3. If horse does not respond, tap with crop.

You're not going to get beautifully sensitive lesson horses who will automatically understand every rider's different seat aids and so on. They know what they can get away with and you have to be firm with them.

It would be nice if the horses all listened to a gentle squeeze every time, but the way that they are ridden, by so many different riders, is such that this is very difficult to train into them.


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## DashAwayAll (Jul 19, 2008)

claireauriga said:


> Well, with lesson horses 1. Squeeze.
> 2. If horse does not respond, give a sharper nudge/kick with heels or whole leg.
> 3. If horse does not respond, tap with crop.
> 
> .


 
Agreed.
Often a lesson horse is rather wiley, and is testing you to see how much you know. They want to know if they are going to have to work, or if they can ignore you. Much like a classroom with a substitute teacher.

I have ridden a few "deadsided" horses and it was an ugly experience. My thought would be to pull them and re-train... keep them away from beginners.


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## VanillaBean (Oct 19, 2008)

The thing that surprises me is that she was not a lesson horse and she is half Arab so she like to go go go!!! She is doing ALOT better now that i have tried everyones advice!!

*!!!Thanks!!!*


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## Harlee rides horses (Jan 13, 2008)

My horse struggled with this...
It could be that your horse isn't quite muscular enough to do this transition and maintain a nice speed, or it could be stubbornness. 

What I did was I would ask for the lope from the walk. If my horse would pick up the jog or that hideous "I-don't-want-to-canter" trot then you stop them, pick up the walk, and ask for it again. And keep doing it until they produce the results you want. It really does work...at least after a while:roll:


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Personally, my biggest requirement before I ask for the walk-canter transition is that my horse can clearly differentiate the trot aid and the canter aid. My trot aid is a hlf halt, squezze with my seat and pressure with both legs. My canter cue is half halt, Sit deep, and cue with my outside leg ONLY. This brings the outside hind under, and once they figure it out it is very easy to strike them off on the correct lead. Another big pre-requisite is MORE collection through the trot-canter transition. My horse needs to be able to calmy and smoothly take the canter, with a strong contact and moving forward into the bit. Without these two things solid, the horse will be confused about what your asking, and will try to run into the canter. For any trabnsition my horse needs to be slightly rocked back onto his hind. 

For the actuall walk-canter transition, I want a very collected walk, very forward off my leg. Depending on the lead you want, there is a different time to cue. Practise feeling your horses belly swing as you walk. I was always taught that you cue the canter when their belly is swung away from the leading leg, so to the outside of your circle. I will half halt, sit realllly deep and put that outside leg on, keeping a strong inside rein. 

Not sure if that will make sense, but it worked for me and my arab now has the awesomest walk-canter transitions! So much fun and easy!


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## Vicizmax (Aug 11, 2008)

SonnyWimps: I would like to make a correction, leaning forward wouldn't be the correct way, even if it helped. You must always stay back in transitions.. 

My advice is to shorten the reins, lean back, stay in a circle or at a corner, then turn the horses head to the outside (towards the fence/wall), put our outside leg (the one by the fence/wall) back and inside leg forward right behind the girth or even on the girth, and squeeze/kick.

There's millions of ways of fixing this problem, it really all depends on the horse. It would be easier for me to see a video where you attempt this, but as I read in an earlier comment, you dont have a video, so I guess you'll just have to try figuring it out, we can only give you small advice.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Vicizmax said:


> My advice is to shorten the reins, lean back, stay in a circle or at a corner, then turn the horses head to the outside (towards the fence/wall), put our outside leg (the one by the fence/wall) back and inside leg forward right behind the girth or even on the girth, and squeeze/kick.


If you did that to my horse you would get a counter canter.....assuming he would even want to canter, being off balance and crooked.


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## Vicizmax (Aug 11, 2008)

Spyder said:


> If you did that to my horse you would get a counter canter.....assuming he would even want to canter, being off balance and crooked.


If that happens, then you are doing it wrong.
That is the way I learned to get a horse to gallop correctly if it keeps starting in the wrong gallop.

I guess maybe you shouldn't use this advice since I can't explain how to do this correctly in words. I could make a video explaining this, but if there's other advice that helps, then I couldn't be bothered.. 

But its something about "shifting" the weight on the horses outside leg, so the inside leg gets "lighter" and the horse automatically goes in the right gallop, as the head is turned on the outside, but the body is still going in a circle/corner to the inside. Confusing, I'm sorry.. xD

So never mind, good luck though!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Vicizmax said:


> If that happens, then you are doing it wrong.
> That is the way I learned to get a horse to gallop correctly if it keeps starting in the wrong gallop.
> 
> I guess maybe you shouldn't use this advice since I can't explain how to do this correctly in words. I could make a video explaining this, but if there's other advice that helps, then I couldn't be bothered..
> ...


What you are explaining is putting the horse in a crooked position to attain the canter. Any method to attain the canter (gallop) can be considered correct as long as the horse's balance is not compromised.

In dressage no trainer of quality will ever use crookedness to achieve a specific goal.

Initially on a young horse where a canter aid is not understood the outside leg will be used to PREVENT the haunches from swinging out (also called crookedness). The haunches swinging out will overload the inside shoulder and while the horse will probably canter on the correct lead he will do so simply because the weight/balance forces the inside lead to be picked up. This would be natural for a horse to do since its balance at this stage is weak. A rider may at this stage even lean forward and increase the weight on the inside shoulder to do exactly this also. To prolong an aggressive outside leg once the horse has learned the aid can result in a horse that will now go crooked to the inside with the haunches bent inwards. I have seen this too many times and have marked down horses that exhibit this fault in compititions.

As the horse gets stronger the rider should try to use the outside leg less and only if the horse exhibits a haunches out desire. This type of horse wants to go crooked and the rider should prevent this. If training is progressing well then the utilization of the outside leg becomes less and less and the rider will come to a point that the closing and "scooping up" of the inside hip leg will be all that is required to attain the canter on the lead desired.

The correct aids for the half pass is the ourside leg against the horse where it will move away from that pressure and along with a correct bend will cross its legs and move over. The problem I had with one student is that she continued to use the outside leg aid for the canter and the horse cantered every time she wanted the half pass. She had to go to the lesser aid (insidehip/leg) at the canter and after she did she had no problems with the half pass.

If a problem arises in a canter lead the rider could try to attain the canter through the shoulder in position and via turning.


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## tsf (Nov 13, 2008)

Vicizmax - I learned the way you described. In my pre teen days I showed Saddleseat and showed Morgans. I was taught to turn the horse's nose to the wall and squeeze with the outside leg. That is how I've trained all my horses to canter as well, but again that is only becuase I was taught that way as a kid. It's always worked for me and my horses.


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## Vicizmax (Aug 11, 2008)

tsf said:


> Vicizmax - I learned the way you described. In my pre teen days I showed Saddleseat and showed Morgans. I was taught to turn the horse's nose to the wall and squeeze with the outside leg. That is how I've trained all my horses to canter as well, but again that is only becuase I was taught that way as a kid. It's always worked for me and my horses.


I do this every day with my pony to make him more flexible, I make him gallop say on the right leg and turn his head left and vice versa. Its a great exercise, really! The horse is more flexible, builds up balance and muscles  If you do this correctly, by keeping the horses body straight, but only bending the head to the "wrong" side, it will work! If it all ends in a chaos:



> Originally Posted by *Spyder*
> _If you did that to my horse you would get a counter canter.....assuming he would even want to canter, being off balance and crooked._


..then you are either doing it wrong, or your horse is unable to achieve this completely because it is too stiff.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Spyder said:


> If you did that to my horse you would get a counter canter.....assuming he would even want to canter, being off balance and crooked.





Vicizmax said:


> ..then you are either doing it wrong, or your horse is unable to achieve this completely because it is too stiff.


 
My horse will never canter in a crooked head out position. He is too well trained and would as any good schoolmaster horse would do...simply refuse to go into any movement is such an unbalanced crooked way.

Maybe when you get farther into dressage and learn the finer aids you will understand.


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## myboydoc (May 12, 2008)

what I do is when I am getting ready to push my horse into a canter I kinda wiggle my eet to get gis attention and send him the signle that he is about to go faster and that always works. hope I helped you!


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## Vicizmax (Aug 11, 2008)

Spyder said:


> My horse will never canter in a crooked head out position. He is too well trained and would as any good schoolmaster horse would do...simply refuse to go into any movement is such an unbalanced crooked way.
> 
> Maybe when you get farther into dressage and learn the finer aids you will understand.


I've been riding dressage for 9 years, and I have a wonderful dressage pony and a prof. trainer who studied 7-9 years specifically how to train young horses. So I think both she and I know what we're doing. Just because it's different doesn't mean its wrong!

And it's not crooked? How is it crooked? If your horse is crooked, then you should straighten him out, because of course he wont gallop when he's crooked. You have to keep the horse straight and the neck has to be flexible enough to turn each way, no matter which gallop the horse is going. You can do the same in trot, and you cant say the horse is crooked in trot, because then I definitly know that you dont understand what I mean.

I can post a video as an example, if you want.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Vicizmax said:


> I've been riding dressage for 9 years, and I have a wonderful dressage pony and a prof. trainer who studied 7-9 years specifically how to train young horses. So I think both she and I know what we're doing. Just because it's different doesn't mean its wrong!
> 
> And it's not crooked? How is it crooked? If your horse is crooked, then you should straighten him out, because of course he wont gallop when he's crooked. You have to keep the horse straight and the neck has to be flexible enough to turn each way, no matter which gallop the horse is going. You can do the same in trot, and you cant say the horse is crooked in trot, because then I definitly know that you dont understand what I mean.
> 
> I can post a video as an example, if you want.


I have seen your pony and it has a lot of issues. I hope with your vast dressage knowledge you will be able to fix most of them. In the mean time I will take the little knowledge I have and run with it.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Actually, a schoolmaster should do what the rider tells it - if the rider is asking for a haunches in (what most horses do while travelling crooked) then they'll do a haunches in.
Anyways, I only read a couple posts, and am probably sticking my nose where it don't belong.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Actually, a schoolmaster should do what the rider tells it - if the rider is asking for a haunches in (what most horses do while travelling crooked) then they'll do a haunches in.
> Anyways, I only read a couple posts, and am probably sticking my nose where it don't belong.


 
Exactly and a schoolmaster will probably do a counter canter if it is bent to the outside when it is trained high enough that only the slightest squeeze is required of the hip/seat on the side the canter lead is desired. If however the head is just forced outside causing the inside shoulder to fall in and thereby creating a CROOKED horse then a good schoolmaster should do nothing for the aids would be totally wrong.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

If you are having trouble with walk-canter transitions then go back to trot-canter. Keep your upper body quiet and let the horse do the transition without interfering. 
How I was taught to aid for the canter by an FEI dressage judge on her GP schoolmaster who just passaged if you asked wrong (not going to lie I purposely asked wrong a few times haha) is to put your outside leg back and then aid the first canter stride, in time with the outside hind about to lift, with the inside seatbone.
If you need to put the horse's head in any kind of position to get the correct lead then you're doing it wrong. And if you need to kick/sqeeeze you're just ****ing off your horse haha.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Spyder said:


> Exactly and a schoolmaster will probably do a counter canter if it is bent to the outside when it is trained high enough that only the slightest squeeze is required of the hip/seat on the side the canter lead is desired. If however the head is just forced outside causing the inside shoulder to fall in and thereby creating a CROOKED horse then a good schoolmaster should do nothing for the aids would be totally wrong.


 
Fair enough


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## Kirsti Arndt (Jun 23, 2008)

Sonny and i had this problem last summer getting ready for our show. I went back to the beginning-we are workign on a true "collected in frame walk". My cues were NOT consistent. I couldnt get him into a consistent correct canter from a trot let alone from a walk-i agree with above-if you get the set up right and are consistent with the cues at some point he will get it and praise praise praise. The lady who is helping me now is dead set on mastering each step from the ground up before moving on.


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## Vicizmax (Aug 11, 2008)

Spyder said:


> I have seen your pony and it has a lot of issues. I hope with your vast dressage knowledge you will be able to fix most of them. In the mean time I will take the little knowledge I have and run with it.


My pony doesnt have any issues, it can do fantastic things with a very experienced rider, its me who has issues with my pony, and I'm not saying I'm a great rider because I've ridden for 9 years, I've only been riding properly, where I'm actually learning more, with private lessons and not riding school for about 1-2 years, since I got my own pony. But sure, everyone thinks things their own way, and of course I can see that you think its a crooked way of ridding, perhaps it is, but its done no damage and for me, its only made my horse flexible, so I'll stick to that and you stick to however you learned it! 

I'm just posting a suggestion, wether people will use it is their own choice


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## LE123 (Nov 28, 2008)

Define 'not getting' the canter.

Spurs are a quick fix. Over time, over usage will result in dead sides. I would get the horse used to a crop on the ground, so you can eventually carry one, but the bigger issue right now is your transitions.

A horse must be balanced and moving off your leg to get the transition. From walk or trot, both of these must be achieved. If not, your horse will run through your aids and rush and either rush/run into the transition (not balance) or not get the transition.

Work on transitions. Half halts, bending through circles. Using your seat and leg to keep the horse moving forwards.

Hope that helps


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## horsegirl123 (Jan 7, 2009)

I was gonna say a crop until you said it spooks her.

I would ask for the transition, and if she doesn't do it, bring her to a halt and try again. 

Maybe a kick if necessary?


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## charliBum (Jan 7, 2009)

SonnyWimps said:


> a kick is never necessary


 
true that, horse goes forward by voice, and I use my legs for yeilding, walk to canter, straightness and sometimes change in pace, its a training thing, your leg shouldnt leave your horses side, you should be able to nudge with your calves


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