# Throwing head when taking bit out...?



## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

First off, because its just when you are removing the bridle that she freaks I'd suspect its not her teeth. However, have her teeth been floated?

Have you tried slipping a finger in her mouth while taking the bridle off so she opens it to let the bit release? I would try doing that and I'd follow her head up....it sounds to me like she's had the bit hit her in the teeth on the way out and now she's anticipating it, so you have to teach her to anticipate something else good. 

I've seen youngsters do this when they are learning to take the bit. It helps to follow the horses movement and stabilize the bit in their mouth with your hand until they open their mouth enough to release the bit safely.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

Has she had her teeth examined by an equine dentist?

If you suspect soreness, has she been checked by a chiropractor?

If there isn't a pain reason to this behavior, then she just plain needs to learn some manners. How are her ground manners otherwise? Does she ever crowd you or get into your space? Does she lead nicely at all times? Can you move all parts of her body (shoulders, ribs, hindquarters) from the ground with minimal effort? Etc. If she has disrespectful actions anywhere, it can translate into issues like this. 

If she were my horse, she'd get bridled and unbridled over and over until she stood nicely and did it nice for me. I might not expect absolute perfection on the first session, but in time I would. Going back to the ground manners, if you ask her to put her head down for you, she should KEEP it there. If she doesn't, start spending daily sessions with her on ground work and respect. 

Also for you the handler: Make SURE you do not allow the bit to bang on her teeth when you bridle or unbridle her. It may have happened once, and it hurt her, and now she is apprehensive about it. Also, make SURE you don't yank on her ears. Again, if she's sensitive and got "hurt" once, she may just be trying to protect herself.


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## star16 (Aug 10, 2012)

Wow, thank you for answering so quick! No, her teeth have never been floated- they don't need it, the vet just checked her almost two months ago.

I slip my finger into her mouth when putting the bit on, I'll try it when taking it off... But I can't exactly follow her head up, because she's half Saddlebred and can stretch her neck like a giraffe...


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## FaydesMom (Mar 25, 2012)

Go back to the basics of teaching her to drop her head down to your level when you ask her to. The usual cue is pressing on her poll with your hand and a vocal "drop your head" or something similar. If she is too tall or always has her head to high to reach, you can use gentle lead rope pressure in the beginning.

Start with her in a halter and just press firm and steady on her poll (or pull firmly and steadily downward on the lead rope) until she bobs her head down a bit. The_ micro-second _she even _starts _to drop her head release the pressure immediately, say "good" or rub her shoulder or something similar to let her know this is what you are wanting her to do. She will probably try to raise her head even higher at first, or try other evasive moves, but just hold steady pressure, eventually she will move her head in a downward motion. Don't forget the immediate release at the littlest try at first!

As she figures it out, start holding the pressure longer and not releasing until she gives her head a little lower and lower each time. Then start asking her to hold her head down for longer and longer until she will just stand there with her head hanging down. 

This is a pretty quick one to teach, usually just one session. And it will become more and more calming the more you use it, and it will help with so many things, not the least of which is bridling. Head down is a very calming, submissive position to be in, and many horses will just "veg out" once they learn this.

Once she has this figured out, go back to putting the bridle on and off. Ask her to drop her head, slip the crown over her ears slowly and keep a gentle hold to keep the bit from "falling" down and whacking her in the teeth. Slowly lower the bridle and stick a finger in the side of her mouth to entice her to open her mouth willingly and let the bit drop out.

If at any point during the bridling or unbridling she starts to raise her head again, go back to asking her to lower her head, then go back to the bridle again. Just keep it slow and calm and give it time.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

star16 said:


> Wow, thank you for answering so quick! No, her teeth have never been floated- they don't need it, the vet just checked her almost two months ago.
> 
> I slip my finger into her mouth when putting the bit on, I'll try it when taking it off..*. But I can't exactly follow her head up*, because she's half Saddlebred and can stretch her neck like a giraffe...


You shouldn't be. 

As I already stated, if she won't lower her head for you and/or won't keep it low for you, then you need to go back to groundwork basics like FaydesMom explained and train her to do so.

And as far as the vet check, _how_ exactly did the vet check? Is your vet also an equine dentist? A lot of times you really cannot get a GOOD look at the teeth unless you sedate them and open 'em up with the mouth speculum.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Bitting simulations with a rope instead of the bit are really good, too! Do what's been suggested, teaching to lower the head, while you sit on a stool where you'd normally stand (your being lower helps horse to lower energy & head), then do approach & retreat with rope, hold it in after a while & let her mouthe it till she's relaxed, then let her drop it, etc.

I think that everyone should be able to ride his horse in a rope halter with an unlooped lead, also, so I encourage your idea of going bitless for a time. You'll learn independent seat, confidence, etc. Do in a small arena at first.


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## star16 (Aug 10, 2012)

Yes, I have had an equine dentist out for my other mare's teeth problems, and the mare in question here (star) was checked thoroughly as well, speculum and everything, and her teeth are good.

I am sure to protect her ears, though we probably did have an instance where the bit banged her teeth by accident. Her ground manners are quite good- she does act up when I am riding her, however that is because she has a lead mare personality, and I have become the more dominant "mare" in our relationship as we advance in dressage, so some minor tiffs while riding aren't a big deal- we work through it fine.

As for the practice with the lead rope... Well, today was very bad, removing the bit, even when I did so very slowly. After I eventually got it off (after head tossing on her part, and mild panic on mine) I switched out the reins behind her ears for her lead line, and practiced her putting her head down with just a halter on, and she was much better. However, I am slightly worried that she might get sore behind her ears from the pressure on the lead line, since the first time I did it today she lifted her head against the pressure (she soon figured it out.)

FaydesMom, you said a vocal cue, I never even considered that... so just something like "down" or "head" or "drop your head" is enough?


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## star16 (Aug 10, 2012)

Oh, and Northern, when you say that biting with a rope is good too, do you mean slipping a lead line through her mouth like a bit? Cause that's another good idea.

And I did want to try going without a bit, but I was told to keep using the bit, because otherwise she's getting away with something, but to me it seems beneficial.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Something you might try as a training measure...use a rope halter under the bridle:










It makes it easy to cue head down (just modest pressure on the lead rope) and reduces the chance the horse will snatch its head in anticipation of it hitting its teeth. With Mia, we always do the same thing - I get the top of the bridle off, then need to hold the bridle in place for about a second before she opens her mouth, and then lower the bit down and the bridle off. I ride with the halter on regardless so I can switch the reins from bridle to halter if I need to lead her somewhere. It also helped last week when she stepped in a cactus and I needed to hold her while pulling spines out of her leg.

When we first switched to using a bit, she was pretty worried, so I spent some time taking the top of the bridle off, then back on without dropping the bit. I don't know if that would help your situation for training or not. Just an idea...


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Yes, a lead or even a thinner rope (not so bulky in the mouth), like the removable "string" of a carrot stick/handy stick/horseman's stick.

"Letting her get away with bitless" is the wrong attitude, imo. Your instinct is right to get partnered up with her bitless! This is a good opportunity for you to quit listening to others & process the info that the HORSE is giving you. You'll grow as a horseman by listening to the horse first & foremost.


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