# Homozygous black looking bay (?)



## giddeup39 (Jun 14, 2015)

Hello

I have a question about homozygous black. I had my mare test UC Davis says no red factor EE and recessive bay aa . So, question is,, why does my mare look BAY? The pic is in the late winter, she has shed out darker, but whats with the coloring? Her momma and daddy both where BLACK, no question. I will post her baby pic too.


----------



## giddeup39 (Jun 14, 2015)

*baby pic...*

sorry,, forgot her baby pic.


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

Sun bleaching, perhaps?


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Probably sun bleached, then. There are a few things that can make a black horse bleach out significantly.

Smoky black is one possibility (black with a cream gene); cream 'hides' on black horses, so you can't generally distinguish between a black and a smoky black horse just by looking at them. However, smoky black horses tend to bleach more readily in the sun. The cream gene has to be inherited from one of the parents; since they were both black, you'd have to look further back in the pedigree (if known) to see if one of their parents carried a cream gene. To confirm for certain, you'd have to DNA test for it.

Another possibility is mineral imbalance/deficiency. Copper is often supplemented to prevent bleaching, but I'd recommend evaluating the diet as a whole before adding any specific minerals. 

There are also supplements like Black as Knight, SmartDark & Handsome, or just straight up paprika that are supposed to minimize sun bleaching.


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

The paddock looks muddy/full of manure... A black horse that lays in urine and such on the ground will lose their coat color due to the acidic bleaching powers of an unclean bed. 

By the way, a horse can be homozygous black but not black in color. The agouti modifier controls black and creates bay or brown depending on the mutation. There are bay and brown horses who have two copies of the black gene but also one or two agouti modifiers that control the black. There is a popular Arabian stallion who is a Khemosabi son, tested EE AA. All his foals receive one black and one agouti from him, creating a bay foal before even considering what modifiers the mare would add to the foal (dilutes/grey which would change the color of the bay based foal). 

Do you have any pictures of the sire?


----------



## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

I agree your horse is probably sun bleached.

My horse is also genetically tested homozygous black (EEaa). She usually looks black when she first sheds out in spring or fall, but she quickly bleaches, especially in summer.

Here's a picture of my horse in fall, when her winter coat is just growing in.










Here she is in late summer, after living outside without a blanket all summer.










I don't do anything about my horse sun bleaching, because I don't really care. However, if it bothers you that your black horse is bleaching, there are ways to prevent it. You can stable your horse during the day and turn her out only at night, or you can use a UV protectant sheet when your horse goes out during the day. There are also supplements and shampoos that you can use, that are designed to minimize sun bleaching in black horses, though I have not tried them so I cannot vouch for their effectivity.


----------



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sweat will also bleach out a coat color as well. There are many factors that could explain fading.


----------



## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

kiltsrhott--/swoon


----------



## giddeup39 (Jun 14, 2015)

thank you for replies.

I do not have a pic of the sire, he was non fading black, although he did have lots of roan hairs. 

The paddock that she is in was a pic from very late winter, ground still frozen, she had only been there a couple days, at a boarding stable. I can understand the urine theory, but not this case. 

She was tested, does not carry the Agouti gene, which is what was confusing me... either way, doesn't matter what color she is,, she is a great horse. 

Again, thanks for the comments and pics.


----------



## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

giddeup39 said:


> thank you for replies.
> 
> I do not have a pic of the sire, he was non fading black, although he did have lots of roan hairs.
> 
> ...


So she is a fading black as most blacks fade, some fade worse than others 

The non fading/blue blacks are uncommon and a genetic difference between fading and non fading blacks has not been found. 

There are environmental factors that can make fading worse, like sweat makes fading worse/speeds up the process. If you hose off a black horse after a workout, you will reduce the extra damage the sweat helps create. Clean living conditions will also help, as laying in acidic muck will bleach out color over time. Pepperika added to the feed can also help with coat color, but it takes months before you notice a difference in the coat color as it enhances the natural color of any horse who is regularly fed Pepperika 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Also, it looks like she's in her winter coat, which tend to bleach/fade quite a bit. My gelding is black as pitch, even in our hot summers, but in winter, he'll bleach out a bit.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

