# *Foal did not make it* - Foal due soon! Color/sex guesses?



## Poco1220

ALSO! Any ideas for foal names?

Sire: QTPocos Sonny Dancer
Dam: Smooth Colored Beauty


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## reining girl

im going to say its going to be a chestnut frame/splash colt. As for names....hmmm....

Smooth Dancer
Colored Dancer
QT Colored Beauty
Pocos a smooth dancer
sonny n colored

ya im not good at names


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## Thyme

Sonny's smooth colored dancer
Smooth Dancing Beauty
Colored Beauty Dancing
Smooth Dancer 

what ever the color both those horses are gorgeous, so the foal will most definitly be beautiful


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## ilovemyPhillip

No ideas, but I LOVE your mare. Bays with chrome are my favorites.


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## Poco1220

As long as it's not a chestnut I'll be thrilled. I'll live if it is but really hoping not  

Checked Aura today and she has a small bag and is beginning to wax up. She doesn't appear to have really "dropped" yet and her bag is still very small so I'm not expecting anything in the very near future. She also isn't acting at all like a mare that's almost due! Most mares I've seen at her size and getting close to foaling seem uncomfortable and sluggish... she's still full of **** and vinegar, bucking and rearing, racing up the hills, etc. No sign of being tired!


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## SMCLeenie

Chestnut Tovero filly
Names
Colored QT
Colored Dancer
Smooth Dancer
Smooth QT


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## RiddlesDarkAngel5

for a colt i like Smooth Sonny D or Smooth Dancin'. for a filly I like Pocos Smooth Beauty, Pocos Wandering Beauty, or QT Colored Beauty. I'm not sure on the color, but the parents are gorgeous. I can't wait to see pics!!


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## sommsama09

Poco1220 said:


> ALSO! Any ideas for foal names?
> 
> Sire: QTPocos Sonny Dancer
> Dam: Smooth Colored Beauty


Apache Dream
Naeveh Colours - heaven backwards
Taken Paint
Artists Painting


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## heartprints62

Stud Colt:
Smooth Colonel Color 
Impressed by Beauty
Impressed by Color
Smooth Dancing Man

Filly:
QDee Beauty
Pocos Sonny Color
Coloring Box QT
Color Outside the Lines


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## rbarlo32

My only idea on a name is: Sunny Coloured Dancer 
not very good I know, and I think it will be a Bay tovero colt


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## Poco1220

I'm going to start posting some pictures as her foaling gets closer so you guys can give some guesses on what the baby's birthday may be!

Photos below were taken June 23rd at 315 days pregnant.

Starting to show a small bag and vulva is elongating (as far as I can tell, I never really checked it prior to this so I can't guarantee that she isn't a mare with a naturally elongated vulva). However this is her first foal so I'm going to assume that she is elongating in relation to the impeding pregnancy.


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## Poco1220

Photos from last night, June 28 at 320 days pregnant.

Bag still small but showing waxing. Vulva still elongated but looking more relaxed. Mare is not showing ANY discomfort at this point and is just as rambunctious as ever.


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## Crossover

Poco1220 said:


> ALSO! Any ideas for foal names?
> 
> Sire: QTPocos Sonny Dancer
> Dam: Smooth Colored Beauty


Spot Me Dancin
Smooth Spotted Dancer
Night On the Town
Paint the Town
Dancin Till Dawn
Belle of the Ball (filly)
Dancecard


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## atreyu917

I LOVE your horses. This should turn out to be a very beautiful baby


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## SeeingSpots

*Foal*

Bay Tovero Filly

SkipASunDancer (Sorry I know it prob has nothing to do with mom or dad but it just came out!) 

Hmmmmm.....She will foal in 20 days from the picture is my guess.


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## atreyu917

Crossover said:


> *Spot Me Dancin*
> Smooth Spotted Dancer
> Night On the Town
> Paint the Town
> Dancin Till Dawn
> Belle of the Ball (filly)
> Dancecard


I LOVE this one!!!



RiddlesDarkAngel5 said:


> for a colt i like *Smooth Sonny D* or Smooth Dancin'. for a filly I like Pocos Smooth Beauty, Pocos Wandering Beauty, or QT Colored Beauty. I'm not sure on the color, but the parents are gorgeous. I can't wait to see pics!!


And I was also about to post Smooth Sunny, so I like that one!


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## haviris

Bay tovero filly


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## Poco1220

July 2nd update 

I noticed this evening her milk vein is starting to swell her belly is dropping slightly. She doesn't seem as energetic as normal although that could be completely unrelated since we're going through a pretty bad heat spell and heat index has hit mid 100's daily which these horses are NOT used to. Still just a small bag although I've heard that a lot of maiden mare may not get a large bag until they actually foal.

Photos from today...
Showing belly dropping some:









Milk vein:









Still fairly relaxed/elongated:









Whole mare (though the photo does her NO justice and makes her belly look tiny compared to what it is, although she is carrying very wide so it's a hard angle to see):


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## atreyu917

She is seriously a drool worthy horse....


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## Poco1220

She is for sale... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## atreyu917

Ughhhh if only I were financially ready for her... :/ College is fortunately/unfortunately my priority right now


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## Poco1220

She's getting bigger by the day but still no foal


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## Poco1220

Had the farrier out this morning and Aura seemed just tired. Lol. It took a ton of convincing and a very obvious *sigh* for her to even pick up her feet, poor momma! She's getting bigger by the day and had a decent bag on her today so we're getting closer! (But alas not quite holding my breath yet!)


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## Poco1220

Photo update from today. Please excuse her "I want to look straight at the camera with my eyes closed EVERY TIME" appearance... lol.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Wowsa, Momma sure has some impressive markings! I assume Daddy has tested negative for frame?

I think she's going to make you wait, hehehehehe.


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## Poco1220

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Wowsa, Momma sure has some impressive markings! I assume Daddy has tested negative for frame?
> 
> I think she's going to make you wait, hehehehehe.


Momma tested negative for frame  Daddy throws it nearly every time. I think she'll make me wait to but she's only like 330 days right now so no real rush! I'm just excited since I'm fairly decided that I'm gonna keep the foal!

EDIT: PS I have to admit.... you know that feeling when you're about to leave class in school and the teacher goes "Excuse me, can I speak with you a moment?" and your heart drops into your stomach and you want to run and hide? That's exactly how I feel every time I see you comment on something of mine lol. I love (and hate) that you're always brutally honest!


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## MacabreMikolaj

Really? That's very interesting, I would have pegged Momma for having it.

LOL, ironically I wasn't even going to say anything because I KNOW you're a responsible breeder, I just always get so twitchy when frame is involved. I've known SO many people who own frame mares and always look at me with a dumb look on their face when I tell them to avoid frame stallions - no clue what lethal white is. 

I think I had the same feeling in my stomach clicking back on this post seeing you had replied because I did NOT want to insult you any way! I just noticed your stud was only advertised as a "tovero" and I was like "of COURSE she's tested" and had to be nosey anyway.  Kind of ironic I was so butt **** wrong about which one had frame anyway!

I cannot WAIT to see photos of this foal, should be a stunner!


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## Poco1220

I actually never tested him because all of his foals have had frame AND because I know of a local person who had her stallion tested for OLW and the test came back negative... followed by the next foal being lethal white. I would always rather assume he has it than risk being wrong. Momma is all splash apparently! I'm very excited about the foal as well, though it will be a bit heartbreaking because I'm fairly certain we are gelding Poco this fall so I'm fairly certain this will be one of his last foals.


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## Poco1220

MacabreMikolaj said:


> LOL, ironically I wasn't even going to say anything because I KNOW you're a responsible breeder, I just always get so twitchy when frame is involved. I've known SO many people who own frame mares and always look at me with a dumb look on their face when I tell them to avoid frame stallions - no clue what lethal white is.


OH! On this note! I spoke to a lady I know who is a APHA breeder and stallion owner. She was on and on trying to sell me a mare she had as a broodmare and I was very excited until she said the mare was frame. I told her absolutely not because I didn't want to worry about lethal whites and she promised the mare was negative for lethal white... ummmm??? Granted she owns a homozygous tobiano stallion so she doesn't worry about frame/lethal but she should still KNOW about it!


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## Jessskater

subbing!


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## Poco1220

*321 days*

Well I have good news and bad news! 

The good news is that Aura seems to be progressing nicely. Her bag is getting bigger and her belly is matching it! The milk vein is staying slightly apparent and she seems to be slowing down lately. Also, not pregnancy related, I did attempt to clip her for the first time yesterday. I didn't tie her or anything because I wanted to see her reaction. I managed both ears and her halter/bridle path with NO ISSUES, she never even moved an inch. GOOD GIRL!

Bad news is apparently I'm a total failure and can't count  which is a shame since I've always been a math major. I was off on the days apparently and Aura is now only 321 days which means much more waiting. I think she still has a few good weeks before we have a baby but at least my dates are correct now!

Photos of course:


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## momo3boys

Ugh, I hate it when I do that! (you are not alone). Her bags are fuller in the latest pic then mine was the night before she foaled. They like to keep us guessing!


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## NdAppy

Just going off her back I would say that there is still a ways to go.


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## Poco1220

Yea she's actually 323 days today and I won't start doing nightly checks until she either starts looking much closer or until we hit 340 days.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## atreyu917

I really should unsubscribe from this thread. I want her so bad hahhaa. CANNOT wait for this beautiful baby Poco! I think my obsession with paints is slightly unhealthy hehe.


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## Poco1220

I'm pretty much decided if it's a filly it will be registered as: "LF Miss Love n Liquor" it doesn't have anything to do with either of their names but I just love it lol. Not sure on a colt name yet but I am thinking regardless the foals barn name will probably be "Promo" lol.


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## Plains Drifter

Gorgeous horse! Can hardly wait to see the baby!! Ps....slightly off topic, but what is "frame". I don't know much about paints.


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## NdAppy

Frame overo is a white pattern that when present in the homozygous form (two copies) it is always lethal. Breeding two frame carries together gives you a 25% chance of a doomed to die foal, 50% chance of a frame carrier, and a 25% chance of a non-frame foal. 

This is a really good example showing how the white is "framed" by color, and this is why it is referred to as frame.











Frame overo is also referred to as OLWS (Overo Lethal White Syndrome) or being an OLWS carrier.


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## Poco1220

Thanks ND you beat me to it!


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## KawaiiCharlie

subscribing


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## amynjay

Subscribing.


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## lilkitty90

i'm going to guess that it will be black frame/splash filly. and i believe she will have blue eyes, so she will look regal with blue eyes on black!


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## Poco1220

Just some more info on what my stallion has thrown so we can keep guessing!

1st foal - bred to a solid black AQHA mare threw a black filly with blue eyes and minimal blaze I was told (was not registered so I have no pictures unfortunately).

2nd foal - bred to a black tovero and threw a black filly with one blue eye and frame markings.

3rd foal - bred to a solid sorrel and threw a sorrel filly with one blue eye and frame markings.

4th foal - bred to a solid palomino mare and threw a palomino filly with 2 blue eyes and frame markings.

Lol so thus far every foal has been the same color as it's dam, has had at least one blue eye, and 3 out of 4 have had frame markings. Guesses?

---

As far as Aura updates: she's getting bigger by the day and super cuddly with me. She follows me around any chance she gets and freaks if Poco leaves her which means I'll most likely leave them together for her to foal. He has been around foals before with no issues so I don't expect any problems. Her bag is staying a decent size and I'll try to get more photos tomorrow!


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## riccil0ve

Subscribing. I wanna see the wee one!


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## KawaiiCharlie

Hmm... bright bay filly with two blue eyes & frame markings :3
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

oooooh blue eyes on Bay with minimal markings would be STUNNING!


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## Poco1220

lilkitty90 said:


> oooooh blue eyes on Bay with minimal markings would be STUNNING!


God I hope it's a bay I'm sooooo tired of washing a white tail for every show! LOL


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## atreyu917

Blue eyed bay would be fantastic!!!


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## Poco1220

That's what Mommy is - a blue eyed bay.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

i'm hoping it's got minimal markings so the blue eyes will be against bay and not white.


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## egrogan

I have no experience with breeding, but I found it really fascinating that you were keeping the stud in with the mare close to foaling (and that she was stressed when he wasn't around). No judgement here at all, I'm just truly curious- is this a common practice? I get that when living in the wild in herds, this is natural, but I hadn't heard of this being done in more domestic breeding situations.


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## Poco1220

egrogan said:


> I have no experience with breeding, but I found it really fascinating that you were keeping the stud in with the mare close to foaling (and that she was stressed when he wasn't around). No judgement here at all, I'm just truly curious- is this a common practice? I get that when living in the wild in herds, this is natural, but I hadn't heard of this being done in more domestic breeding situations.


It really is a personal decision depending on owner, set up, and the individual stallion. I have some farms I've worked with that won't ever allow their bred mares near a stallion and others I've worked with that leave their stallions with their mare 24/7. Since my stallion is extremely laid back and my mare is without a doubt the alpha and can run him off with just a flick of an ear I'm not concerned. I also don't feel at this point that it's a good idea to stress her out more by taking him away since I honestly believe she'll go through a fence just to get back in with him.


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## Poco1220

*325 days*

Pictures of Aura from today - 325 days. Her belly doesn't look as big in this photo from the side but she looks HUGE from front/back, unfortunately I couldn't get a photo that way since she insists on turning to see me every time I move to get a rear or front shot lol.

Judging from her bag she still has a ways to fill out and I'm assuming that crease will expand and disappear in the next days/week. I'm still guessing her closer to the 340 day mark but I'll take it a day at a time.

Also *question* does anyone have any examples of what a mares vulva looks like normally and then another when they get closer to foaling so I actually know what I'm looking for in that dept?


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## Poco1220

Bump.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Golden Horse

egrogan said:


> I have no experience with breeding, but I found it really fascinating that you were keeping the stud in with the mare close to foaling (and that she was stressed when he wasn't around). No judgement here at all, I'm just truly curious- is this a common practice? I get that when living in the wild in herds, this is natural, but I hadn't heard of this being done in more domestic breeding situations.


It's my choice as well, when Alto first came here I was told he had to live alone, I wasn't to keen on that so I thought we would try him out with the bred mares, and he settled down really well. Now I turn him out in spring with a couple of mares, and he will live with them until they foal, then he comes out before their foal heat, and is either on his own for a few weeks, or goes straight back out with his new harem.

It seems to work very well, apart from a few weeks in the spring when he is the big man around here, the rest of the year he is just a poor soul at the mercy of a bunch of bitchy mares.

OP, your girl has much more of a bag than Ace, I think you may win this race yet:lol:


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## Poco1220

*327 days*



Golden Horse said:


> It's my choice as well, when Alto first came here I was told he had to live alone, I wasn't to keen on that so I thought we would try him out with the bred mares, and he settled down really well. Now I turn him out in spring with a couple of mares, and he will live with them until they foal, then he comes out before their foal heat, and is either on his own for a few weeks, or goes straight back out with his new harem.


Glad to hear of another person on here who leaves their stallion with mares. I think it works better all-in-all for the herd dynamics. The only time I've personally heard of trouble with it is extremely aggressive stallions or with mares who foaled but were bred by a different stallion.

---
On good news it looks like Aura is sold and after weaning will be going to Colorado to be a roping horse!
---

327 days:

Aura is bagging up more. This was from this morning and her bag seems to be steadily increasing as you can see the "crease" filling out and her teats beginning to fill some as well. So ready for this foal!

Anyone want to guesstimate on when the foal will be born?


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## Golden Horse

She's a maiden right? LOL, I'm so not going to guess, but I think you may have another couple of weeks to go


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## Poco1220

Yea she's a maiden. I'd be fairly surprised if we even at a July foal at this point.


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## Poco1220

Aura is acting very different today. Her and Poco stand in the exact same part of my shed during the day *every day*. No exception to this. Today she was standing on the other side of the shed alone and didn't approach me when I came up. She's still being very sweet but seems to be trying to stay by herself which is extremely rare for her.

I'm posting 4 pictures. One of a side view of her from today, one of her bag today, and 2 of her vulva (the tighter from yesterday and the looser from today) which looks much different from last night.


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## SeeingSpots

Oh she might have.....She is NEVER going to foal. lol I can't say what I want to or she may not foal! lol


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## Poco1220

SeeingSpots said:


> Oh she might have.....She is NEVER going to foal. lol I can't say what I want to or she may not foal! lol


Lol. I agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jessskater

I can't wait to see the foal!


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## Poco1220

Nothing last night. Gonna be a rough week though. Current temp is 90*F which doesn't sound too bad except with heat index it is 103! And this is going to be the coolest day all week  I guess the good news is that if she foals this week there's no fear of hypothermia...


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## Golden Horse

Do you get big storms with that heat? I'm betting on Ace waiting for the next big system to roll through, wouldn't be surprised if your girl does the same, she looks like she is getting ready fast:shock:


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## Poco1220

No storms really. Like 10-30% chance of rain 2 days but that's it. Heat index the next 2 days is around 115*F. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pinkswagger26

Can't wait to see the baby when it comes!


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## Poco1220

330 days today. Not even looking close... *sigh*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KawaiiCharlie

Oww  give the baby a poke from me to encourage it out lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## atreyu917

My guess will be July 31st......just because haha


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## Poco1220

*322 days*

Currently at 322 days. I feel like she's looking more "dropped" but her back end isn't loosened up as much. I also know they say not to strictly rely on that rear end and even more so with maiden mares. She does have a nice bag going but doesn't seem to be expressing any fluids out of it yet although she has gone from completely kicking the crap out of anyone even attempting to touch her teats to standing quietly for it which makes me feel much more comfortable as I was worried about her not allowing the foal to nurse.

New photos from today 

Please ignore the look of her head lol, that would be what happens when you *coat* a bald faced horse with sunscreen and then they proceed to roll in the dirt pile *head shake*.


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## Poco1220

What do you guys think - July or August foal?


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## atreyu917

I want the baby if my guess is right! hahaha I kid.


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## JessieleeZ

subscribing


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## KawaiiCharlie

July hopefully >.<
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ladybug2001

Subscribing. o.o And... I say August.


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## jessicapworkman

Subscribing and I can't get over how much I LOVE that mares markings! Pumped to see the little one!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SeeingSpots

Awesome she does look a bit more dropped I have my fingers crossed!


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## Poco1220

333 days today. Happy and alert. Bag more full but still not expressing any fluids. Back end did some looser today and the heat was easier today - hoping as it cools down this weekend it will knock her into labor!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lblagden

I'm betting August.. Just because I'll be upset if she beats Athena.


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## 2manypets

August! I say Aug 21st.


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## Poco1220

That would put her at 361 days... If she lasts that long I may be cutting it out of her lol.


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## 2manypets

LOL! I was just hoping as it's one of my dogs' birthday! :lol:


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## smrobs

Subbing to see who wins the great foal race of 2011 LOL.

Somebody ought to do another foal watch thread so that we can have all the expectant mothers on the same thread. Here's the one I started when I was expecting.
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-breeding/foal-watch-2009-a-30174/


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## Ladybug2001

I think there was already a foal watch thread for 2011. Though July/August is out of season practically. Most people don't want a foal born so late in the year. There isn't many more mares about to pop.


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## FSHjumper

oooh for a filly I like reining girls "Qt Colored Beauty"!!! It has a nice ring to it  Hmm my guess is Aug 8th, I HOPE you get a bay frame filly


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## Poco1220

FSHjumper said:


> oooh for a filly I like reining girls "Qt Colored Beauty"!!! It has a nice ring to it  Hmm my guess is Aug 8th, I HOPE you get a bay frame filly


Lol Aug 8th is Hubby & I's anniversary. 

She's getting bigger as is her bag but other than that nothing new yet  

335 days and counting...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ladybug2001

I forgot to put in my guess in sex and color!
Bay Tovero Filly.  And you know my date, August 1st.


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## Poco1220

*336 days*

336 days. Belly starting to V out?


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## Ladybug2001

Hmm... I would say so.


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## Poco1220

Got up at 10am to see a beautiful bouncing filly in the pasture! Pictures to follow! Filly is up and nursing and walking around, Mom is doing great, and Poco is being a perfect gentleman to both!


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## SeeingSpots

Cannot wait to see pictures.


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## Poco1220

I was nervous about not imprinting but she came running right up to me and let me stick fingers everywhere and pick up feet. Daddy's personality!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plains Drifter

Woohooo! Can't wait for pics!!!


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## Indyhorse

Whoohoo, finally one of the last ones popped! Hope that kicks Ace and Dusty into action. :lol: Can't wait to see pictures of the new filly!


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## ioconner

WooHoo! I love new babies
What color is she? Can't wait to see the beautiful baby!
Congratulations!!!


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## MN Tigerstripes

Yay! Congrats!! Can't wait for pics!


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## KawaiiCharlie

Picturessss!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Poco1220

I think Poco spent quite a bit of time with baby when mommy was foaling though since Mom can full out leave the filly and the filly could care less as long as Poco is still close by. She won't call to her Mom or try to follow her, but Mom gets upset!


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## I3Emommy

Aww she loves her daddy


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## SeeingSpots

Daddy's girl!


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## lilkitty90

awesome! but i want pictures! lol i can't wait! lol


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## atreyu917

YAY!!!!! This is the first thread I checked after being offline for a couple days! Congrats and I can't wait to see her


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## heartprints62

HOORAYYY!!!! Excited about the filly! Have you picked out a name?? PICTURESSSSS!!!!


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## Poco1220

Pictures soon. I'm in a bit of a scare right now. I was told the mare was OLWS neg which was important since poco is pos. Foal is nearly all white BUT both parents are sabino carriers. So only tine will tell if she's OLW or just dominant white... Any advice or telling the difference now?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horseluver2435

Yikes! Hope everything turns out ok- is she acting healthy?
 Congrats on her, but I really hope she's alright.


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## smrobs

Has baby had a bowel movement? If the answer is yes, then she's likely fine. If no, then you might want to call the vet.


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## Poco1220

smrobs said:


> Has baby had a bowel movement? If the answer is yes, then she's likely fine. If no, then you might want to call the vet.


She does have stains and poop marks around her anus but I have not yet witnessed one. Then again it's been a very busy day so I haven't been out there much more than 10-15 minutes every 4 hours or so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

oh no poco! wishing you luck and good vibes. i do hope all is well.


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## Poco1220

Photos of the filly from today:

The spot on her nose! (she also has stripes on all 4 hooves)








Too cute for her own good!








Nap time!


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## SeeingSpots

OH MY GOODNESS! She is adorable! A sun burn nightmare! But cue nonetheless! I hope she likes stalls! lol


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## corinowalk

Daawwwwww Hi cute baby!


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## smrobs

Aw, adorableness!!


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## KawaiiCharlie

Can i steal her? :3
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lilkitty90

this makes me wonder what her color is under all the white, i still think black or bay.but she is gorgeous!!!


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## Indyhorse

Aww, she is darling!


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## kywalkinghorse2010

I'm going to go with a black frame/splash. I think that the foal will have a medicine hat marking and be very loud colored. I'm also going to guess that it will be a colt.


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## heartprints62

Let us know how she is doing! I worry about all that white, but praying for her health!


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## NdAppy

Please updated us as to how she is doing!


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## Ladybug2001

Oh my, she is gorgeous. Keep us posted on the OWLS..


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## Poco1220

Unfortunately she started showing signs of colic late last night and I called a vet out immediately to have her put down before she began to suffer. He watched her for a while, tried an enema to see if she was indeed lethal, and confirmed. Apparently it was just not my year. Working on getting her moved to another farm today or tomorrow to prevent her from being bred back.


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## Golden Horse

Oh no, I'm so so sorry that's awful, RIP little one, you were just to beautiful for this world


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## MN Tigerstripes

I'm so sorry Poco..


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## smrobs

Oh, I am so sorry. :hug:


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## lilkitty90

aw Poco i'm sorry, i guess she was needed on the other side. wishing you more luck next time and i'm sorry you had to go through all this.


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## Ladybug2001

Oh my god, that is terrible! This year hasn't been to nice to the little ones... I thought the she looked OLWS.. Dx That is just so saddening... I wanna cry now. So so so so sorry for your lose, Poco.


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## NdAppy

Poco I am so very sorry for your loss.


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## tinyliny

So sorry for this sudden loss. How sad. Maybe this isn't the best time for you, so maybe someone else can please explain to me this ? I know next to nothing about breeding and genetics and this problem, that she was apparently born with. Would someone mind explaining to me.?

Baby was totally angelic. Definietly too cute for this world.


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## Phantomcolt18

I'm so sorry for your loss. She was an adorable little girl. I did a report and powerpoint on OWLS in my biology class when we were studying genes. I was saddened from what I read in my research. 

Your little girl is now a beautiful little angel.


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## NdAppy

tiny - OLWS /frame is connected with the frame overo pattern. When a horse is homozygous (carrying two copies) of frame, they are born with minimal color (can have some color) and an incomplete digestive tract. There is something connected to the gene that causes frame that disrupts the formation of the digestive tract. Foals that are not humanly euthanized die a very painful death by 72 hours of age.


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## SeeingSpots

So sorry for your loss.  

Cherish the few hours/day you had with her. You did the best thing for her.


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## tinyliny

What is "frame"? 

So this explains why the filly being so white was a bad omen?


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## farmpony84

I added a note before the original title in hopes for making things easier on the OP.

So sorry for your loss.


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## NdAppy

Frame overo is where the white on a horse is "framed" by color.

Such as this -










A heterozygous (one copy of the gene) horse can be very loud, or so minimal that you have to test to know if they are a carrier or not.

Frame is extremely good at hiding.


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## ilovemyPhillip

I was anxious for this foal. I'm so sorry for your loss.  Everything will get better soon. <3


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## Poco1220

Farmpony - thank you. 

Tiny - it's a paint pattern. It tends to appear as a white marking
On the side that looks to be framed with color and does not cross the back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy

Poco - Frame can and does cross the back.


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## bubba13

Very sorry for the loss of the foal.

Was this an intentional breeding? Did you choose not to have your mare tested for OLWS, knowing the risks of the syndrome?


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH

Sorry for your loss god speed that baby across the rainbow bridge.


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## Poco1220

bubba13 said:


> Very sorry for the loss of the foal.
> 
> Was this an intentional breeding? Did you choose not to have your mare tested for OLWS, knowing the risks of the syndrome?


As stated before I bought the mare after being told she had been tested and was neg for OLW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jake and Dai

My deepest condolences Poco! How very very sad...


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## corinowalk

Oh rest well poor girl. Too cute for this world is right.


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## Golden Horse

Are you going to offer her as a foster mum, if anyone has a orphan foal in your area?

When we lost our little guy I phoned all the local vets and put up some ads for Fancy in case anyone had a foal who needed a mum. I don't suppose by any happy coincidence that dullylover is in your area at all?


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH

Poco1220 said:


> As stated before I bought the mare after being told she had been tested and was neg for OLW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sad part of buying horses is the sellers dishonesty Swear there ought to be a law against it.


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## heartprints62

Oh no! I'm so sorry. And I'm sorry about the bad news on your mare.


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## Rascaholic

I'm so sorry for your loss! I have been haunting this thread since it was started and am so very sad for you and the poor mare. 
I hope that you know just how much I respect the decision you made to end her suffering. Sometimes it's all we can do to help them


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## faye

sorry for you loss.

Tinyliny - if you are interested there is a similar genetic malfunction in arabs. Known as lavender foal syndrome or CCDL. CCDL affects the nervous system rather then the gut though.


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## dullylover

imsorry for your loss


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## ioconner

I'm so very sorry for your loss Poco.


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## rlcarnes

She was so beautiful I am so very sorry for your loss  Hugs**


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## horseluver2435

I'm so sorry! Hope the mare is doing well, and that things will look up soon.


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## pinkswagger26

I found this awesome website about genetics and coloring, if anyone is interested: Horse Colors

So sorry for your loss, the baby was just so cute.


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## Indyhorse

So very sorry Poco. *hugs*


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## ponyboy

What did this foal's parents look like? Did they show signs of frame?


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## Plains Drifter

She was such an angel. I am so very sorry for your loss!


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## smrobs

Pony, she went over that earlier in the thread. Sire was a carrier, but dam was supposedly tested as negative (according to seller).

It truly is a tragedy that people can't just be honest.

Poco, again, I am so sory for the loss.


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## KawaiiCharlie

So sorry poco 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## riccil0ve

I'm so sorry, Poco. ='/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kywalkinghorse2010

Awww. I'm so sorry. She was such a very pretty girl. As soon as I saw her picture, I immediately had a gut feeling that she would turn out to be lethal white. Its so sad. Clearly someone was not completely honest when you bought the mare. That's why you should have requested to see the test results, but at least the baby didn't suffer.


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## trailhorserider

She was a beautiful little angel. So I guess God called her back because he wanted her for himself. 

Things like this are so tragic (and I know one of our members lost a mare just a short time ago). I just couldn't deal with all the sadness involved in breeding horses. I'm glad some folks are able to do it or we wouldn't have horses at all. But I don't think I could handle it emotionally, things like this tear me up.


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## Quixotic

I'm so very sorry for your loss


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## ShutUpJoe

So sorry about your loss. : (


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## smrobs

I am the same way THR, I'll leave the breeding to folks who enjoy it and can deal with the ups and downs. I was fortunate to end up with 2 healthy foals and that will likely be the end of my foal experience.


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## kitten_Val

Poco1220 said:


> Unfortunately she started showing signs of colic late last night and I called a vet out immediately to have her put down before she began to suffer. He watched her for a while, tried an enema to see if she was indeed lethal, and confirmed. Apparently it was just not my year. Working on getting her moved to another farm today or tomorrow to prevent her from being bred back.


My condolences, Poco... That's just awful....


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## Druydess

How terribly sad.. my condolences on losing such a precious baby.


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## flytobecat

I'm so sorry. She really was quite lovely.


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## ThaiDye

I am so sorry for your loss. She looked like such a precious angel. How terrible for this to happen.

Being somewhat new to horses, I had to look up OLWS to see what the scare was about. When I found out, I admit I had to wonder why the stallion was bred knowing he was a carrier? Granted, the research I did said BOTH parents had to have the gene to produce (a chance of) a lethal white, but why take the risk if you know one parent has the gene?

I mean no disrespect. Please don't take it as such. I was just curious about it. My own mare just had her foal this month & I know how devastated I would be if something had happened. I, too, had to have the vet out (on a Sunday night of all times) because my mare didn't pass her placenta in a timely manner & I thank God everything worked out. I truly wish your little filly had survived.
(((((HUGS)))))


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## Chiilaa

ThaiDye said:


> Being somewhat new to horses, I had to look up OLWS to see what the scare was about. When I found out, I admit I had to wonder why the stallion was bred knowing he was a carrier? Granted, the research I did said BOTH parents had to have the gene to produce (a chance of) a lethal white, but why take the risk if you know one parent has the gene?


Because there is a test for it, and if only one parent has it, the foal cannot be homozygous for it. Poco was under the impression that her mare had been tested and was negative - and I am sure that if the testing had not been done, Poco would have done it before she even thought of breeding the pair. 

Poco I am terribly sorry for your loss. You will be in my thoughts.


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## weefoal

I am so sorry for your loss. 

Just an fyi for others that may read. Not all white foals are lethal whites. Many are born healthy and fine so never have one put down too fast. 

This mare showed many signs of being lethal white positive. 

Belly spot
No white crossing the back
Blue eyes

But always know that frame can hide so its always best to test no matter what you see in front of you. I had a friend that had a solid looking mare that only had a quarter size white spot on her shoulder. Tested positive for LW.


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## Chiilaa

weefoal said:


> I am so sorry for your loss.
> 
> Just an fyi for others that may read. Not all white foals are lethal whites. Many are born healthy and fine so never have one put down too fast.
> 
> This mare showed many signs of being lethal white positive.
> 
> Belly spot
> No white crossing the back
> Blue eyes
> 
> But always know that frame can hide so its always best to test no matter what you see in front of you. I had a friend that had a solid looking mare that only had a quarter size white spot on her shoulder. Tested positive for LW.


That is completely true. HOWEVER - Poco bought the mare and was told that she was already tested, and was negative LWO. I don't think many of us would have questioned it ourselves, and I don't think it is worth dwelling on in this case. The OP did not know that the mare was LWO positive. She didn't assume that the mare wasn't, she was TOLD that the mare was tested negative.


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## weefoal

Chiilaa

I meant no harm. But people were asking questions so I was trying to point out the visual signs. 

You cannot say no one would have questioned it. I would have and I feel many others that I know that breed overo would have questioned it. 

That is in no way a slam to the original poster. 

If I had bought this mare I would want to actually see the test and confirm that it was negative. 

Any of mine that are tested have that test in their file. I even keep the ones that tested negative in their file. If I sell that horse all of their paperwork goes with them. 

If a seller sells a horse why would they not send on the color test papers? Makes no sense. Always ask!

There are too many overo breeders out there that knowingly breed LW to LW because they think it is worth the 25 percent chance of a lethal foal. (which to me is crazy) So I would never trust a seller without the paperwork. 

Again this is not a slam but an fyi for people reading. If you buy a mare that looks LW positive (or just has a pedigree with LW carriers) and the seller says it is not---ask for the paperwork! 

Out of tragedy can come good things. So if this saves even one foal from being bred to two LW carriers then its worth it.


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## MHFoundation Quarters

Sorry to hear of your loss Poco.  We've lost one foal and one mare over the years and it was really tough. As breeders we all know the chance is there to lose one or the other but it doesn't make it any easier when it happens. Hope you find some comfort in the coming days, big hugs from the hoosier state coming your way! :hug:


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## ponyboy

Chiilaa said:


> That is completely true. HOWEVER - Poco bought the mare and was told that she was already tested, and was negative LWO. I don't think many of us would have questioned it ourselves, and I don't think it is worth dwelling on in this case. The OP did not know that the mare was LWO positive. She didn't assume that the mare wasn't, she was TOLD that the mare was tested negative.


That's terrible! I wonder if she could sue.

...and weefoal, healthy white foals are caused by the sabino gene. White that comes from frame is always lethal.


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## Golden Horse

Gently nudges ponyboy, Weefoal is very knowledgeable in this area, so that STUNNING boy in her avatar, she know a wee bit about the issues here.


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## bubba13

ponyboy said:


> ...and weefoal, healthy white foals are caused by the sabino gene.


Or dominant white.


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## AlexS

Oh Poco, I am so very sorry. How heartbreaking.


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## atreyu917

This REALLY breaks my heart Pooo. I know how excited I was for her arrival, so I can't even imagine the emotions you've gone through in the last couple days. I am so sorry for your loss. I'm glad she had a quiet passing and didn't suffer.
As for your mare...I so wish I could buy her from you. She's so beautiful....


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## weefoal

ponyboy said:


> That's terrible! I wonder if she could sue.
> 
> ...and weefoal, healthy white foals are caused by the sabino gene. White that comes from frame is always lethal.


White that comes from frame IS NOT ALWAYS LETHAL obviously or we would not even be having this discussion. Statements like that make me crazy. Someone will read that and believe it. 

If frame was always lethal the OP wouldnt have this mare and I wouldnt own my stallion in my avatar that has been tested to be LW positive. 

Frame is only "lethal" when it is homozygous or 2 copies in one foal. 

I wasn't going to get into a color discussion what causes white foals. I will tell you a friend of mine has bred many white foals and many are 100 percent color producers. When color tested they tested positive for Tobiano, Sabino1 and Frame. There is no test yet for splash but we suspect they also carry splash due to coloring of the foals. She refers to them as maximum overo which is a pretty good description. She actually gelds many of the colts because she does not want to sell 100 percent color producers to her competition. 

Now having said that, some are like you said caused by Sabino1. But you cannot assume that is the only factor. Again you have to test to really know. 

Golden thanks so much for the nice comment on my stallion. He is such a joy to be owned by!


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## Golden Horse

weefoal said:


> Golden thanks so much for the nice comment on my stallion. He is such a joy to be owned by!


I've loved him from the first time you shared him, so worth that epic journey to go fetch him.


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## SorrelHorse

Very sorry for your loss....Over the years I have seen lethal whites as well, so I can honestly say I know how it feels.

But now she's frolicking through the fieldsof heaven like all foals should


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## Cacowgirl

So sorry to hear about your sweet angel filly. Hope your mare is doing ok, you said you had sold her,right? LW is just so horrible-a friend had one a few years back,& their mare fostered another friends' filly when the mare died because of foaling complications. That was a lot easier than all the bottle feedings!


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## jessicapworkman

Awe this is so heartbreaking  I cant even imagine how you feel, I'm very very sorry for your loss. Maybe because mom and dad were so beautiful they pulled a little angel right out of the sky and she got snatched back as soon as someone up there noticed. She was truly a little white angel, all she was missing was the halo.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH

ponyboy said:


> That's terrible! I wonder if she could sue.
> 
> ...and weefoal, healthy white foals are caused by the sabino gene. White that comes from frame is always lethal.


I wonder how many double dilutes were put down thinking they were LW


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## ponyboy

?? Don't LW foals colic?


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## JustDressageIt

LMPQH - I doubt any would be put down. There are color differences, beyond that you wouldn't put the foal down as soon as it came out and was light colored, generally I would imagine most breeders would either have a vet confirm before euthanasia, or see signs or LW with the foal showing signs of discomfort. 

Poco, sorry for your loss. I firstly wish people could be trusted, and secondly hope that someone who has visited this thread has learned that you have to make sure, to avoid tragedy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TaMMa89

My condolences :sad:.


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