# been offered 2nd stable for both horses - do I add a window/door and make it 24/7 field shelter?



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Nope. Just leave as is and either let them choose which is theirs or assign them one. I would plan on spending time hanging out to see if they will each choose a stall peaceably or if they both still want the same space with one guarding. If that's the case shut them out and use them when you feel they need it. Personally this would be my choice as one of them may decide both belong to her and you still end up with a trapped horse. An open shed is different than an enclosed space with one small exit. Even putting two exits doesn't change that there are spaces the second can be trapped and beat on if things escalate. They don't need a window but if you did put one I'd install bars so they could see but not reach through. All of that said I had a three stall space where there was a large paddock and left the doors open. Mine didn't fight over space and knew which stall was theirs at feed time. There was also someone on site from 6am to 10pm. If there would have been fighting the horses would have been put on a turn out schedule and I'd have been billed. The 10pm person shut all the horses in and the 6am opened their stalls to let them out. That barn was set up for every three stalls to have each their own large paddock. Several of the boarders would rent all three so they had control over their outside space. Rent was reasonable and as long as the space was paid for owner didn't care. For extra, if your horses did fight over space, the barn crew could rotate turn out for you.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Horses are ......wierd. Somedays they'll beat up on each other and others, they're all BFF and sweet. I, personally, would not allow them free access because of fussing. Later on, they may be able to have it, once they learn which stall belongs to whom. Until then, I would be there to direct traffic and put each one in their stall and not ever let them get started on the territorial behavior. Since they're used to being together, I would cut a window hole but like QtrBel suggests, I'd put hog wire over the hole so they can see but not reach in. 

They can learn to behave nicely, but it'll probably take some work on your part. I have 3 horses in one section of my barn, 1 stallion, 1 gelding and 1 mare. The 2 boys occasionally get testy with each other but not so bad I have to move one of them. The mare will make faces at the stallion if she's not in season and he's looking at her too hard. None of them actually fight over the space or get nasty enough that I have to move them. Your mares will settle down, just give them time.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

The problem with the positioning of the back shed might be that it won’t get used because whoever has to go there (I’d guess Katie) can’t see the other horses while in there. I’d assume Mocha will claim the front because it’s the choice position for keeping an eye on everyone else. Adding the window might help make the back shed more inviting so other horses are within sight.

If it’s not free choice and you’ll be locking them up, maybe not as much of an issue. But it still might cause some anxiety for whoever is put in the back and can’t see the others.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I think it is a DIY system and do you go out more than once a day, Can you have the window put in, covered as suggested and close the horses in for the night? That way they can both have privacy to lay down and get a good sleep, doesn't have to be every night but a couple times a week.
I would worry that Katie could get trapped in that back stall, no way to get out if the other horse is blocking the exit, but in time as they get used to the routine they may be able to have access to both stalls without fighting.


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

How big are the boxes? They looked pretty big from your picture. A window at least should be fine, as long as a horse could retreat from another horse sticking its head through the window.

When I got my current stalls, they had very high board walls an no one liked that. I put a window between Pony and Moonshine, and even though Moonshine pretends it annoys her, I am pretty sure she actually likes it that she can see Pony if she wants to. And of course he loves it ("We is friends!").

My horses know which stall is "theirs," and 95% of the time go into the appropriate one. However, sometimes Moonshine gets presumptuous and goes into Teddy's stall, which typically has better hay in it as he struggles to keep on weight. If she gets in there first, and he's in a bad mood, he will go after her. And he doesn't seem smart enough to realize that even though what he wants is for her to leave, if he is standing near the doorway and kicking at her, it's not possible for her to get out. I certainly wouldn't leave the stalls open with them unsupervized.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Seeing the layout, a window, not a door.
Each horse will soon learn they are fed in one particular spot and will then go to that spot to eat and will also be accustomed to hearing, seeing but not touching their pasture partner.
Keeping a wall between then allows them each some space if they want, or they may choose to be together just hanging out.

My horses are like this...
They each have a dedicated stall for food fed, but they like to share a stall to just stand and hang out in...
If weather is bad, they each go to their own stall and lay down in the shavings to rest though, yes mine do do that.
A window allows them to see each other but for me, no touch at feeding time is necessary as my one is a bully to the other.








The grating seen stall front can also be used to create a window to see through but no touching if you fear that and no attempt to climb through it some might try.
Windows can not be to low or that is the invitation you present.
Those livestock grates are not cheap and take some muscle to cut to length and secure...
What I would use.... 2x4...they come 8' or 12' long.
Cut a window and nail 2 boards across it to keep each head on their side...they can see, they can nose touch, they get light and ventilation..they can't climb through nor touch to truly bite should they fight.
🐴...


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## Txshecat0423 (May 27, 2020)

I’d go with a window. I’ve never boarded but have stalled my bunch tons at rodeos and events and both like it when they can “see” they’re not alone. Once you start putting them in “their” stall, and feed them in there, they’ll start to know that’s their space and should head in accordingly. I have four and they all know where they get fed for sure! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Keep them separate.

While many horses will happily share an enclosed area, most prefer their own individual stall/stable where they can see their friends.
I’ve had/got horses who happily go out in the paddocks with another horse and spend time scratching each other, but won’t tolerate that same horse even putting it’s nose into their stable.

You could put a window in the shared wall, but I’d be inclined to put bars or a grille in it.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

I vote for a window too, no horse likes to be stalled up in a dark window less stall, horses are herd animals they got to have be able to see one another, they need to be secure knowing that their buddy is in reach or eye view. Just dont turn them out with the stalls open, keep them closed off untill feeding time so there wont be any accidents. My horses have open runs with their shelters, but when turned out I close off that area so the bully/bossy gelding cant get any body cornered up, just safer this way then when feeding time comes around they all know where to go. 
You really have a nice place and really nice people that are willing to keep you and your horses happy, I think I would be taking them out to supper one evening, nice folks!!!!


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I would do a window because otherwise the horse in the back shelter will feel alone. I wouldn't put bars on it because I suspect it could come in handy for you sometimes to have it open so you can throw hay through, pet the other horse or give a treat.

My horses don't have a window in their side by side run ins so Aria spends a lot of time walking to the front to check on Hero between bites of hay, or else they go in one side together.

I'd feed them in their individual shelters and if the weather is bad they will probably each go in their own as long as there is a window.


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## 3Horses2DogsandaCat (Apr 19, 2016)

I would add a window in the area marked, but I personally wouldn't leave the stalls open 24/7, especially with a dominant horse. My run-in shed has to be completely open along the front width because my dominant horse will not stop kicking if another horse is trapped inside with him.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

_*Don't leave the stalls open, keep them closed off.....*_

I *don't* agree with this part of several comments above.
I think your horses have already shared one stall nicely with each other, hence your BO has seen how much they love to be inside and now offered a second stall.
Leaving the door open allows them to seek shelter from the weather, from flies and to "rest" when they feel safe, secure from predators they let their guard down easier and do indeed rest, mine do at least.
The downfall is if your horses decide to make this the potty area you will be cleaning a lot more and more shavings used. Poop picking is poop picking though which you are required to do.
Your horses though seem to be living together far nicer than you anticipated too.

The part of the picture I am unsure of is....*the access point to the other stall is it enclosed so a wide alleyway to the back stall or is it open just needing the horse to walk next to the building to gain their stall?*
I can see if it is covered one of the horses standing in that walkway like it is the stall which could mean a possible messy area needing to be poop cleaned now too...
Depending upon the configuration of the barn and entry points to those stalls, I might be inclined to put that window a lot larger or closer to the end _nearer_ the entry door since having feed buckets not buried deep in a stall works easier for those feeding too...
You would possibly gain light into both stalls, a air circulation/ventilation ability and yet the horses could see, hear and sense the other yet have protection from blowing stormy weather too..if that is a solid wall and alleyway...go back to where your drawing was.

I think you have stumbled into heaven with how accommodating this BO is toward you and your animals.
Obviously she has spent some time observing your animals, how they interact and the patterns they have already established sharing and or bickering if they do...
Horses are very much creature of habit, hence we are able to ride them and they "remember" what our cues mean...
A few days of established who eats where....that is your determination. It is your cue to teach them....
If you want Katie to have the front stall, then Mocha is taught her stall is in the back....
A week, *1 week *and they will know when you call them they go to_* their*_ respective spot and be waiting for their food.
But it is you who decides who eats where, not the horse...*you*!
Once they know their spot, its easy. I just call our "Food time" and ours when on pasture come galloping in and go to their stall to eat...no one goes in another's stall cause they going to catch grief from me and that stalls owner..
Remove the food, and they have all have bunked in together on cold, nasty nights as bodies closer together is warming..and they rest in companionship together.
_Just an idea of what I experience with mine..._
🐴...


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

This is what we call 'hog wire' here in OK. It's about 52" tall and 8 ft long, costs less than $20.00. It's easy to put in using wood strips to make a solid attachment. I have used it in my barns for years and it keeps things nice and airy and open without costing a fortune or being dangerous to the horses.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

horselovinguy said:


> _*Don't leave the stalls open, keep them closed off.....*_
> 
> I *don't* agree with this part of several comments above.
> I think your horses have already shared one stall nicely with each other, hence your BO has seen how much they love to be inside and now offered a second stall.
> ...


These two horses historically don’t get on and the offer of the second stable was to solve the problem of one being anxious about going in when the other is in there.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Kalraii said:


> Mocha wont give Katie a chance and I'm too scared to leave the door open unsupervised in case Katie gets trapped. The livery owner today saw how they both longingly wanted to go in and has kindly offered a spare stable that is currently being used as a feed room.


I think you misread longingly for lovingly.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

They have been getting along well since they moved and have no herd interference steering their attitude...
I just see no point in closing doors to weather protection it sounds both horses are craving... now with multiple locations to get that protection just adds to the yes, please.

By all means, use the second stall...but I am not fearful of having both inside together when that I think has already been observed.
Offering a place where one can retreat to and be "home" is far more inviting to me and that the lesser dominant/aggressive horse *is* given the choice stall in dominance and hierarchy standing...
I know my underling knows _his spot _and if another wants in and he not want them...they do not enter or risk his teeth bared and being snapped at or worse....that evens the playing field.
Unless there is a covered shelter run-in, no stalls and large, like 30 foot opening...then there is no shelter which they want and miss from prior living arrangements.
Not every horse enjoys being forced to live outdoors 24/7 regardless of who thinks it...a choice of in/out and protection from weather better than trees they all like and freedom to come & go _at their will...
I will guarantee you both these horses knew some type of stall life prior to being in a field year-round.... _
🐴....


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

I just don't like the possibility that the submissive one could get trapped in the space by the dominant one. She could get really injured. It only takes one time.

For when you're there, I think it's fine -- if there is a problem, you can go in there and take care of it. But I'd hesitate to leave them alone like that. Just my experience.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I didn't read all responses, but as someone who has a large run-in shared by two horses and a pony, I'd still say no to allowing them to go in these spaces freely, at least for the time being. 

My run-in is 24 x 10 with two 4 foot wide doors on either end. Horses don't get trapped - they can always leave. It is one large space, not two spaces connected by a door. I think you'd end up with some issues with your setup. There are a lot of places a horse could get trapped and you described Katie and Mocha as "hating" each other initially so I wouldn't let them share tight quarters just yet. 

Any chance you could completely tear down the wall between the two spaces down the road? I don't love the configuration of two small spaces with a door between them. You may not be able to tear down the wall as it could be a retaining wall. In that case, I'd put in a window and let the girls have their separate spaces at night. Re-evaluate as things evolve.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Acadian, I was thinking about your set up....the open and escape routes you made and are in place now, but a much wider removal of wall needs done...
Only if the barn structure can accommodate something like that and with blessings from the BO given...it is her farm.

So why does everyone think the submissive one is the one who takes the beating and she not be the aggressor and give it??
Things change when the "submissive" is in her home and the other intrudes....

@Kalraii, I keep looking at that layout...AA just put it in words before I could/did...
Depending upon how much "alterations" to the adjoining wall is done and permitted by the BO, maybe to open it far more than a doors width and then the other door is left open so a second egress point,_ maybe._
I however, still think 2 stalls and separate living space, eating space and a window would work well.
They see each other but not so easy for them to harass each other when they see but not touch works really well.

I can only base my choice of what I would do on what my horses do and act toward each other....
There is a leader and follower...but when enough is enough, my follower is suddenly the dominant leader and tells off the other....then the dust settles and again peaceful companions with each other they are.
A bit more time to make a friendship is not a bad thing either...
I think since the large herd dynamic has evaporated so has the nasty reactions Mocha had....
Then again, if you still see and feel the animosity...only you can make the decision of do you chance it and let them loose with open doors or close doors and again they have stalls but if closed and inclement weather arrives they tough it out again.
Another option is you split your space with electric fence and they live next to each other but can _not_ share actual space...each would have their designated space and stall.
🐴...


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## ACinATX (Sep 12, 2018)

Yes if you could open up that wall entirely, or at least maybe halfway, I think that would be perfect. Well, let me change that. It would be perfect for my horses. When they have enough space, they don't feel the need to chase each other off the space. Having said that, I suppose it's possible that if you took away the wall so that there was now just one big space, Mocha might decide to claim the whole space for herself, which wouldn't be any better than two stalls, and possibly worse.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

ACinATX said:


> Yes if you could open up that wall entirely, or at least maybe halfway, I think that would be perfect. Well, let me change that. It would be perfect for my horses. When they have enough space, they don't feel the need to chase each other off the space. Having said that, I suppose it's possible that if you took away the wall so that there was now just one big space, Mocha might decide to claim the whole space for herself, which wouldn't be any better than two stalls, and possibly worse.


I think it would eventually work, but it might take some time. Bella wouldn't come in the run-in at first, when either Rusty or Harley was in there. Since I have a 10ft long x 24 feet overhang (so it spans the length of the run-in), she still had shelter from the elements. Now, at night, when I put Harley in the third separate stall, Rusty and Bella happily share the run-in. I hang haynets on either end and they eat butt to butt. In the morning, I come in and they are in there together (doors remain open). It's not like they get along all the time in the paddock or pasture either - the geldings are always chasing Bella around and she frequently throws kicks at them. Yet she is comfortable coming in with Rusty, and sometimes all three of them are in there together. But she is always positioning herself near one of the doors just in case. Three is a lot. Two can work I think, but it might take a while. Hanging haynets at either end of a large, open space helps to get them used to sharing it without feeling they need to compete. Sometimes Rusty will decide to switch to Bella's haynet, but she just moves back over to his side when he does that. It's not a conflictual situation, it's all very calm. 

I would still hold off a bit before considering something like this. I think Mocha and Katie need time to rediscover their relationship and work out any friction. Separating them at night will give each of them a chance to just relax and adjust to this new living space. I feel for Katie who gets pushed around more, but it can also be stressful for a dominant horse to feel like they always have to assert their authority. 

If it were an option to tear the wall down between the two spaces, one option would be to do what I did with my double stall. I kept the boards that made up the wall between the two original stalls and made a kind of channel on both sides using two 2 x 4s so I can slide the boards back in. This way, I have the option of converting it back to two stalls like this: 










This would remove the wall between the spaces and allow @Kalraii to open up the space completely in time, but for now, would allow Mocha and Katie to see each other. I know some people don't like to let horses touch each other, but as long as each stall is big enough, they don't have to touch if they don't want to. It might be a gradual way of getting them used to sharing a space while feeling safe. Just an idea if tearing down the wall is an option.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

My thought on this: I'm the type that WOULD NOT ask to tear down a wall in someone else's barn/feed area when they have already done so much for me, Instead I would ask if it would be OK to build a field shelter for my two horses like a open shed type with two walls so it will be a wind block and roof over their heads, leave it open to where they can come and go as they please and there would not be any where that someone could get cornered and get beat up, they can at least get out of the weather. 
I think its just alot to be asking the owners to rearrange THEIR barn for someone that just moved in.. But thats just me.


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## My Salty Pony (Jan 1, 2022)

Acadianartist said:


> I think it would eventually work, but it might take some time. Bella wouldn't come in the run-in at first, when either Rusty or Harley was in there. Since I have a 10ft long x 24 feet overhang (so it spans the length of the run-in), she still had shelter from the elements. Now, at night, when I put Harley in the third separate stall, Rusty and Bella happily share the run-in. I hang haynets on either end and they eat butt to butt. In the morning, I come in and they are in there together (doors remain open). It's not like they get along all the time in the paddock or pasture either - the geldings are always chasing Bella around and she frequently throws kicks at them. Yet she is comfortable coming in with Rusty, and sometimes all three of them are in there together. But she is always positioning herself near one of the doors just in case. Three is a lot. Two can work I think, but it might take a while. Hanging haynets at either end of a large, open space helps to get them used to sharing it without feeling they need to compete. Sometimes Rusty will decide to switch to Bella's haynet, but she just moves back over to his side when he does that. It's not a conflictual situation, it's all very calm.
> 
> I would still hold off a bit before considering something like this. I think Mocha and Katie need time to rediscover their relationship and work out any friction. Separating them at night will give each of them a chance to just relax and adjust to this new living space. I feel for Katie who gets pushed around more, but it can also be stressful for a dominant horse to feel like they always have to assert their authority.
> 
> ...


@Acadianartist is this your setup? If so I love how you built this barn, its looks awesome. So cozy,warm and clean, love it!!!!!!!!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

My Salty Pony said:


> @Acadianartist is this your setup? If so I love how you built this barn, its looks awesome. So cozy,warm and clean, love it!!!!!!!!


Yes, I drew the plans, showed them to my contractor, and we talked through each step. I do love my barn. I grew up with a horse in a 12 x 12 shed in my backyard with no running water or electricity so when I built my barn, I knew exactly how I wanted it. I also spent a fair bit of time visiting other barns. To this day, 6 years later, I still love it. It's not fancy, but it is built with the idea of making my life easy and making the horses' lives as natural as possible.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I have seen a more timid horse get blocked in an open large stall with only one door and get the living daylights kicked out of it. The poor horse just couldn't get past the the nasty one and if I hadn't been there to go in and stop the horse who knows how much damage could have been done, lucky it was only scrapes and bruises but after that the timid horse knew enough to never go in the shelter, but then it had to stay outside no matter the weather.
these two horses might adapt and get along alright after they have been there for a while and that would be great if they could.
I still think it is good for them to go into a stall and have the ability to lay down and get a good sleep without having to worry about what the other horse will do if they share a stall or have the ability to move into the stall where the horse is laying down;
We have a large run in with a big door and the two horses get along ok in there with no fighting but I still like to put my guy in his stall in the barn and I know he likes it because he will lay down and have a rest while he's there even if it's only a few hours during the day.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

4 horses share this lean-to which is open to them 24/7. Up until a few months ago it was 5 and they've shared it together for years without an issue. This is also the only way for them to enter & exit.
















I do have one of the gates closed for Flash during feeding time or he'd be eating his share plus any other morsels from the others who hadn't finished eating. No fighting required he just has to look at them and they'll back away. Other than at feeding time it all remains open and they nicely share their indoor space.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Y'all have some peacable ponies. Patti would be kickin' stuffin' right out of the others if I had an open section like yours. I love it, wish I could do it, but if not Patti, then Boo would be raising havoc with the other horses. Mine are out 97% of the time, come in for breakfast and dinner and go back out. They each have a stall set up and they each know whose is what. I bring them in in order of seniority and of course, make sure the trouble makers are in first. So, Skippy because he's a stallion, not because he's a troublemaker. Cloney because he's senior of the mixed pasture group and he goes next to Skippy, then Boo, then Patti, then Goldie, then Snowy. Any other order and somebody gets upset. LOL! Once they're in, they're fine, all is right with their little world and they eat and mind their own.


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## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Oh lord, @Dreamcatcher Arabians , during the summer the 3 paints stand crammed together in that furthest stall and you'd be hard pressed to slip a piece of paper between them. This coming summer we'll have to see how it all plays out but up through last summer then Gamble (RIP) and Cutter (the dun) would stand along the wall behind where the black/white mare is standing in the photo of them lined up and waiting for me to dump their oats. They don't spend a lot of indoor time during the winter but when it turns hot, humid and the flies come out in full force they're in there from sun-up to sun-down.


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

So many informative responses - both worrying and reassuring. Yesterday we were having icy 40mph winds and rain. When I turned up this afternoon Mocha immediately cantered over to the stable door and the moment I opened it she ran in. While I was pottering around I got some videos and pictures. Poor Katie lol. It's pathetic but I'm such a sucker.





























I noticed that Katie was being really tactile in trying to work Mocha. Very polite in asking and very respectful when told to shove off. Trying relentlessly give "sweet kisses". Mocha is no longer in murder mode so I think she's beginning to calm down.

*TODAY* had a new interaction. I did the same, opened it up while I was poo picking. Katie ran in! Mocha didn't care even in the torrential rain. Then Katie came out and Mocha went in. But what was most amazing was that I put some hay out and Mocha tried moving Katie off a pile. Katie acknowledged her but only moved her butt a step and called her bluff. She was very calm in her body language and expression but it was plainly "no this is my pile". Mocha gave up and found another pile. This is a first. How cool is that?! So I don't know what has happened but maybe Katie has Mocha figured out? Still shut the stable door for now. 

When you think you know something turns out you know nothing. That's how I feel 😅


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

The mare stare of Mocha aimed in your direction...beware!
Make darn sure you keep the upper role of dominant in this hierarchy at all times.

Not surprised Katie has had enough...
It had been Katie ruled the roost prior to you going to the last yard...she has always been in a herd and a herd that had changes of animals coming & going.
She is _*not*_ going to stand down for long...
And Mocha is not stupid either, just has forgotten how to respect others larger and the glared mare-stare ...
I remember Katie can do a heck of a mare-stare...she just being reserved as they settle in...
They *will* settle...and will settle this too.
🐴


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## Kalraii (Jul 28, 2015)

horselovinguy said:


> The mare stare of Mocha aimed in your direction...beware!
> Make darn sure you keep the upper role of dominant in this hierarchy at all times.
> 
> Not surprised Katie has had enough...
> ...


Don't worry its coz Katie was right behind me, as in touching me and nuzzling my neck. Early on when I got Mocha I had to be very sharp with discipling her on walks or around me coz she'd try to lunge for Katie even through me! But now she knows she can only get away with a stare. It's a pretty impressive mean face aint it? I promise, she's very sweet and submissive to me. I think the faces are hilarious and impressive! Will be so interesting to see how things evolve


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