# Canter Transition Terrifies Me



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Several things strike me with what you are writing - most about what you have been taught. 

First off, it is easier to ask for the canter in a corner. Secondly I was taught, and taught, inside leg on the girth (in the normal position) outside leg behind the girth (slightly back) horses head slightly to the *inside *. 

Sitting trot before asking for the transition. 

The reason for the above is so the horse is bent around the inside leg, they find it easier to canter on the inside leg so bending them around the inside leg is setting them on a 'circle' for the transition up. 

The trot should be active but not fast, the bend to the inside is minimal, just enough that you can slightly see his inside eye. 

If the horse is actually turning to the outside when you ask you are using to much rein.


----------



## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

I presume you are a beginner. I get a feeling most of us (adult beginners) went through a stage of being scared of asking for canter so that isn’t unusual.

The only cure is to do it over and over until your body learns it. Can you ask for lunge lessons? Get the instructor to ask for canter instead of you the first few times. 

Also, I got over my fear of canter by doing it in two-point. There was a thread on here where the general consensus was that it wasn’t a good idea to learn canter in two-point, but it was a game changer for me and made riding much more pleasant.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I've never heard of being taught to position the horse's head to the outside.


Initially, your instructor should help you , perhaps, by asking the horse by herself, FOR you, so all you have to do is feel the transition. She can do this with a long lungewhip, just a soft motion and a 'kiss' sound will likely get your hrose to canter.


I think your experience is practically universal for beginnners; falling to pieces at the 'canter' transition. Try WALK to canter . . .it might be easier.


----------



## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

I'd recommend watching lots and lots of videos of canter transitions, and really look at the motion and what the rider's body is doing to follow it.

That said, it can take a while to get used to how a particular horse strikes off into the canter. I've never quite got it figured out on my coach's horse. He's a weird one. But I'm okayish -- now -- on most others. If there's a different horse you could try it on for a bit, to get used to the feeling, it might help?

Also, it doesn't sound to me like your coach's attitude is helping you here. Being yelled at and sworn at over something you're already nervous about is not a helpful approach. And being told to turn your horse's head to the outside is plain wrong.


----------



## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

tinyliny said:


> I've never heard of being taught to position the horse's head to the outside.


I've seen old school horse people do it with unbalanced horses. I asked about it and the general consensus was that horses in nature do it that way so it would help an unbalanced horse to do it "naturally". I don't know if that explanation is true but I have seen it work. Well, the horses were still unbalanced but they were picking up canter on the correct lead. I am not sure if it was due to the head position or despite it.


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

My understanding -- and there are many more experienced here than me, also, this cue may vary from barn to barn -- is that you just lift your inside hand very slightly. You don't bend the horse's head or pull back, you just indicate the bend to the horse by lifting the inside hand. This helps them get the right lead. More advanced riders and horses don't do this anymore, or do it imperceptibly, but it does help. My feeling is that if the horse is completely turning, you're pulling back too hard on the inside rein. So basically, you're telling him to go faster while pulling back which is very confusing for the horse. 

And the outside leg should be behind the girth, inside leg at the girth as already explained, but think of it as gently urging your horse forward while asking for the right bend. Kissing for the canter helps them understand exactly what you are asking for, but generally, that is reserved for beginners.


----------



## TXhorseman (May 29, 2014)

More ways have been devised for asking for a canter than asking for any other gait. Still, I have never heard of using the combination of cues described in the original post.

While I have heard of turning the horse’s head to the outside, the general consensus is to turn the horse’s head just slightly to the inside. In no instance should the head be turned enough that the horse thinks it should turn its body.

When a horse goes into a fast trot rather than a canter, the rider becomes uncomfortable and hesitant to ask for a canter. Instead, the rider should return to a more relaxed gait and regain composure. Then, every effort should be made to get the horse relaxed, moving smoothly, and well balanced before asking for the canter.

I really recommend looking for a new riding instructor.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

When I took western lessons, I asked about the cue for a canter. Everyone looked at me like I was from Mars, and then one replied, "Kick harder?"

From a western trail rider perspective, horses already know how to canter. All they need to know is that you want them to canter now. I was also told the "Turn the head to the outside" thing. The idea was, if you think of the horse as a rectangle, to shift the orientation of the rectangle so the inside front corner was ahead of the outside front corner, thus supposedly encouraging the horse to canter on the correct lead. I believe that is also the idea behind the "inside leg on the girth (in the normal position) outside leg behind the girth" teaching. 

"_Kissing for the canter helps them understand exactly what you are asking for, but generally, that is reserved for beginners._"

That's why I'll always be a beginning rider! Kiss, to Bandit, means switch to a higher gear. "Easy" means either relax a little or shift down a gear. And if Bandit takes the wrong lead, we just counter-canter. I mean, really...cantering was not designed for going in circles! One canters to cover more ground in less time to get somewhere sooner. And we lean into turns!

Except that isn't equitation. It is just beginning riding...which is where I want to stay.

Still, if transitions bother you as a beginning rider, there is nothing too horrible about letting the horse take care of the transition while you get comfortable with the feel. Learning to ask for a specific lead, or to change leads, could be left for a later date. I"m past 11 years without feeling a great need for it.


----------



## Pelhams-and-Snaffles (Jul 4, 2019)

So, I have to ask. At my Jumper barn, I was just taught to straighten my horse, kick behind the girth on the outside, kiss and say 'Canter' with possibly a tap from the whip. (Depending on the horse I'm riding)

Which one would you say is more correct? 

I've wanted to switch to that barn for a while, but I have friends at my main barn, like the OTHER trainers there, and love the horses. Plus my mom loves it (and is friends with like, everyone there.) And they've offered me a lease, which I find is pretty suspicious, like - I find a new barn and now they offer me a lease? Blah.


----------



## ClearDonkey (Nov 27, 2016)

A-Rider-Called-Carvide said:


> So, I have to ask. At my Jumper barn, I was just taught to straighten my horse, kick behind the girth on the outside, kiss and say 'Canter' with possibly a tap from the whip. (Depending on the horse I'm riding)
> 
> Which one would you say is more correct?
> 
> I've wanted to switch to that barn for a while, but I have friends at my main barn, like the OTHER trainers there, and love the horses. Plus my mom loves it (and is friends with like, everyone there.) And they've offered me a lease, which I find is pretty suspicious, like - I find a new barn and now they offer me a lease? Blah.


If you are riding saddleseat, many people and trainers in the discipline cue the way you are describing.


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

@bsms, I still kiss for the canter too, and consider myself very much a beginner even though I've been riding for many years. I guess I was just mentioning that because some coaches frown on kissing, especially when riders begin to show. My daughter, who has been riding competitively for 8 years, never kisses, but then again, she and her horse are almost telepathic so she doesn't have to do much for him to canter. I just threw that in there in case the OP's instructor preferred her riders not to kiss. 

To me, vocal cues make it clear and simple, and horses learn them pretty easily. But in a show ring, judges prefer cues to be invisible, thus the preference for subtlety. I don't think there's anything wrong with vocal cues, personally though.


----------



## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

bsms said:


> When I took western lessons, I asked about the cue for a canter. Everyone looked at me like I was from Mars, and then one replied, "Kick harder?"


:rofl: Oh I can imagine :lol:


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Acadianartist said:


> [MENTION=20381]...But in a show ring, judges prefer cues to be invisible, thus the preference for subtlety....


I never took a LOT of lessons, although I took SOME a variety of times. I also watch and read advice to beginning riders. What follows is a pet peeve but I also think it is kind of important:

When we teach math, we don't start with algebra. We start with very simple adding. Even multiplying comes later. We accept people cannot dive into math at algebra or geometry.

When we teach new riders - "we" being what I've seen others do - we insist on trying to "teach them right" from the beginning. I took a package of lessons in the 70s. The instructor emphasized "toes front". I'm not sure she KNEW any other riding principle. Toes front HAS a purpose for some types of riding. I don't do it even now, but I understand for some riding it seems to be important.

But for a beginning rider?

I've had instructors tell me a "long leg" was good. I bounced back and forth between the "Baby Bear", "Momma Bear" and Pappa Bear" setting for a long time, with Momma Bear being my most common. Over some years, my most common drifted to the Poppa Bear setting, and I recently dropped them another inch - and LIKE it. The "Grandpa Bear" setting. 

But a beginner, depending on their flexibility, may NEED the "Baby Bear" setting. What I am doing now is not wrong. Bandit & I like it so it is right enough for us. But a beginning rider doesn't need it, and trying to stretch their leg while riding means they lose focus on more important things - balance, the rhythm of the horse, their horse's attitude, how to feel at one with their horse.

I agree many riders SHOULD learn to cue a canter to a specific lead. Doesn't interest me much, but it is pretty important in some types of riding. When Bandit takes the wrong lead for a circle in the arena...a counter-canter isn't my favorite thing to ride! Good practice for us both, in a way, but not very enjoyable. That is OK for me because cantering IS a way to go farther faster for Bandit & I, and the rocky terrain here means we will never canter a mile. Probably not a half-mile. That might change if we move to Utah.

So learning how to cue your horse to canter on a given lead - and how to teach that cue to a horse - really IS a part of good equitation. It is just one Bandit & I don't need right now. And a LOT of beginning riders don't need it either.

If someone feels uncomfortable with a canter transition done ANY way, then they need to learn the feel of the horse's transition and the feel of a horse cantering before worrying about how to cue for a right lead canter. Learn to ride the transition with a smile and have FUN cantering with their horse. THEN take their riding up a notch. If they want. I may. Someday.


----------



## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

@bsms - I agree, mostly.

My personal pet peeve is trot diagonal. People who ride alongside kids’ lessons keep hearing this all the time: “Wrong diagonaaaaal!”. I just find it completely unnecessary. These kids (and adults) are flopping all over on either diagonal, it makes zero difference either to them or the horse. Sure, once they get to a certain stage - introduce the concept, show them the difference and let them decide to use it or not. Most people will start changing automatically once they get to a certain point anyway. 

There are some things which should be drilled in from the beginning. Scrunched up core a.k.a. “Heels down” should not be overlooked but rather focused on in my opinion. I just have a problem with the way it’s approached. Just saying “Heels down” does nothing. Heels are up because the rider is trying to curl into a fetal position, with tense front part of core muscles. So, after being shouted at, they will shove their heels down and that’s even worse, curled over the pommel with tense legs in an unnatural position. Get the rider to uncurl and heels will be where they need to be.

Disclaimer: I am not an amazing rider, nor an instructor. Just an observer.


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

@bsms, what I was trying to explain to the OP is that perhaps her coach doesn't encourage riders to kiss because she prefers that they don't rely on overt cues like that. There may also be a concern that the horse needs to respond to other cues because even if the OP never shows, someone else might want to show on the same horse and not have to use the kissing cue. I use it at home on my horse because I will never show so it doesn't matter. Though I am gradually making the cues more subtle as he understands better what I am asking. 

I agree that beginner riders should be taught differently and may need to do things that wouldn't be tolerated in a more advanced rider. However, there is also the danger of creating a bad habit that will be hard to correct later on. I think it's possible to have fun with your horse and still ride correctly. If you want to do things your way, that's fine, but I just watched my daughter canter her horse bareback in the snow just for fun, and she was having no problems with cues or with correct leg and seat position because she's been in lesson for 8 years. She still loves to ride him for fun. Riding correctly and enjoying the ride are not mutually exclusive is what I'm trying to say.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

"_she was having no problems with cues or with correct leg and seat position because she's been in lesson for 8 years_"

Gotta disagree with this, potentially. What IS a correct canter cue? Answer (IMHO): Whatever the horse was taught. So for Bandit, the correct canter cue is to lean a little forward and kiss. He won't CARE what your legs do. Seat position? Again, what IS "correct"? What VS Littauer taught - including when he taught Bernie Traurig - is quite different to the seat I've evolved. Which differs from my daughter's as well. Differs from a dressage seat and a traditional western seat. So what your daughter was doing was working fine for her and her horse (Yea!), that doesn't mean it was NECESSARY for good riding.

There are a LOT of seat positions that work fine at a canter, include no seat (standing in the stirrups), half-seat, long legs or short legs, heels down or not. "Correct" doesn't have an answer unless you define "for what?"

Some schools of though abhor a horse leaning into the turn (and notice where his toes point and his heels not being down, feet in the home position, etc):








Others say it is OK if your HORSE leans, but NEVER lean with him - an idea my avatar makes obvious I reject. Maybe that goes back to my motorcycle riding days.

So if someone wants to show, there may be ONE way only. But for a beginner who hasn't decided on a specialty, there may be many ways to solve the puzzle. And in any case, many of the things instructors tend to insist on - like "heels down" - may be physically impossible for the new rider. I tend to ride with heels down but I've long since concluded it isn't very important. One of my favorite riding videos is a 4 time world champion barrel racer riding in slow motion. About the only thing she did right was...win 4 world championships!






I think it raises a question: Is good equitation about enabling the horse? Is it about balance? How many rules are focused on what benefits the horse's performance versus what people expect or like to see? That then leads to questioning how many rules we teach new riders to prevent bad habits when they may not be bad habits at all.

If I could go back in time, I wish nobody had told me to worry about where my toes point, to get my heels down, to try to get my horse "straight", etc. They aren't bad, but I'd have had a much more relaxed leg and been much more focused on balance and rhythm if I hadn't been trying to ride good...


----------



## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I wasn't suggesting that there's only one way to ride @bsms, I was saying that my daughter's ability to communicate with her horse effectively, ride in a way that enables her horse to move in a balanced way, and still maintain a seat and leg position that would be considered correct in a show ring do not exclude the possibility of having an enjoyable "fun" ride. I'm sorry lessons were so unpleasant for you, but they're not like that for everyone. I have found that riding under the eyes of a coach help me enjoy my riding more because I see clear improvement in things that are important to me. She can also provide solutions to issues that come up since she has vastly more experience than I ever will. So when I told her I was having terrible pain in my calf after riding, she told me to point my toes OUT. Yes, that's right. She knows I will never show, and knows that at my age, it's important to be comfortable. I appreciate her knowledge and experience, and have come to respect her tremendously. Your style of riding may work very well for you, but suggesting that there is no right way leaves the door open for a lot of wrong ways. Though again -- to be clear, since you'll probably be quoting my last sentence again -- I'm not saying there's ONE right way, just that I'm not sure it's a good idea to suggest that the new riders should just do whatever feels easier/more natural. In my experience, it IS useful to have advice from someone who has vastly more experience and knowledge.


----------



## Jolly101 (Jul 2, 2018)

I think everyone already mentioned what I wanted to say, but here is what I would do in your situation. 

First, to understand the mechanics of the canter depart is important and may help you visualize why we ask for a canter depart a certain way. 
The first step of the canter always starts with the outside hind leg and is a moment of lift. When the horse has its head bent to the outside in the canter depart, it is more difficult to put weight onto the outside hind vs when they are looking to the inside and able to shift their weight to the outside. Thus, we try to prepare the horse for this transition by pushing (with the inside leg at girth) their weight to the outside and 'standing the horse up' with a steady outside rein. The action of the inside rein is dependent on what the horse is doing. It may be neutral if the horse is balanced, it might lift for a time if the horse leans in or it may just maintain flexion to the inside. 










Since the outside hind is the first step into canter, the main cue for the canter is to move the outside leg behind the girth, which asks for the outside hind to step under. This also moves our outside seat bone back behind our inside seat bone (making it look like our inside hip is pushed forward). Your hips and shoulders should also pivot slightly to the inside to indicate direction of travel.











Now for the anxiety, I would perhaps try having your instructor give you a private lunge lesson in the canter a few times, so you can become more comfortable with the departure and not have to worry about steering. You could have your instructor ask the horse to canter the first few times until you get a feel of the movement, then try yourself. 

You could also try asking for the canter from the walk to slow down cues.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This is a very interesting post. It can help the rider to understand the mechanics of the canter, to be able to visualize it. I think it's a lot to ask of a beginning rider, though. But that's just my opinion. I would, however, for academic enjoyement and engagement, like to adress some points of your response, in red.







Jolly101 said:


> I think everyone already mentioned what I wanted to say, but here is what I would do in your situation.
> 
> First, to understand the mechanics of the canter depart is important and may help you visualize why we ask for a canter depart a certain way.
> The first step of the canter always starts with the outside hind leg and is a moment of lift.Actually, the horse can transition into a canter from a trot by either lifting from the back outside (if cantering in an arc) leg, OR by falling forward onto his front leading leg. We only call that 'falling' because in the cycle of the canter , when the leading front leg hits the ground, the horse will have a slightly downhill orientation, right before reaching foward again with that 'lifting' outside hind.
> ...


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm certainly not suggesting there is no WRONG way, merely that lots of books, videos and instructors call things wrong without evidence.

Really, a canter depart isn't hard. It was for Bandit when he needed to move both himself and 250-300 lbs on his 850 lb body...but he DID manage, even then. Horses have cantered with riders for thousands of years without worrying about pushing their weight to the outside using our inside leg (impossible, actually) or standing them up with an outside rein (also impossible, actually). We can ASK the horse to do something, but a horse can get the job done and done well without ANY leg or rein cue. All it really takes is practice. For the horse and for the rider.

We teach riding as if we CONTROL the horse's body. We don't. Heck, if Trooper starts to lag behind Bandit too much, he'll get the canter transition done without the rider's permission....


----------



## Pelhams-and-Snaffles (Jul 4, 2019)

For the people who are saying to ask for a lunge line. I have. His response is "You won't have a lunge line in a show." Which I find ridiculous. At this point, I'm thinking about not even showing in the Winter Tourny and just dropping that barn.

We always start cantering from a walk. I only canter from a trot when I'm riding the oldest lesson horse at my jumping barn because it's more comfortable for him.


----------



## AnitaAnne (Oct 31, 2010)

Interesting thread. There are several things happening at the same time, as I see it. 

1) You are struggling to feel comfortable cantering, and your instructor doesn't know that and is instead pushing you to work on the canter transitions. 

2) You are frustrated because this seems so hard to learn, and thinking about giving up on this whole barn. 

3) You are discovering that learning to ride well is a lot of work, and have lost some fun and enjoyment in riding. 

First let me say that it is important for one to understand that a canter, and a canter depart, are two different movements. In (some) shows you would be judged on both. 

Transitions can be done between gaits, or within gaits. Thus a collected canter into a medium canter, for example, requires a transition. 

I was going to suggest that you try a walk to canter transition, because it can be easier for some horses and also some riders. But this it seams, is what you are struggling with. 

Based on what you have said, IMO you can succeed at this, if you are willing to try for just a bit longer. 

*note* It is very common for saddleseat barns to use the head to the outside aid for the canter depart. Many, many years ago, it was the way I was taught riding jumpers. With the head turned slightly to the outside, the horse can fall into the canter with the inside fore. Also, when riding young, hot horses, the aid for depart can be misunderstood as more speed. Because the outside rein controls the impulsion, tipping the head to the outside is sort of a half-halt, which is saying "do not go faster" Also posting on the wrong diagonal can help a horse r/t the weight shift of the rider.

With the increase in Dressage, the training has shifted to a more controlled and restrained depart, thus the inside rein asking for the bend and the outside leg asking for the step into canter. 

So, your instructor is skipping some steps in your education, because first one must be able to master the half-halt before one can master the canter depart. 

The horse knows what to do, you just need to find the right combination of aids to have him understand. 

My guess is that you have a naturally good seat, and a generally light hand with good communication with the horse. So possibly the instructor is seeing you ride so well, and thinking you are more advanced than you really are. 

My advise would be to ask your instructor, calmly, if she would please break down the movement into smaller steps so you can understand. If she is unwilling or unable to take things a bit slower, then you might want to consider trying different instructors or barns to ride at.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think that because dressage requires the rider to get a canter depart AT a selected spot, according to the test being done, that the rider has become more focussed an having the horse slow, collect and step UP into the canter AT that spot. But this is SOOOOOOO far away from where the OP should be focussing. 



Right now it's just about relaxing, and feeling things, and working little by little to a less stressful result. I don't think ANYONE does this without a bit of stumbling and stress. We just get through it, and look back , and tell other people, "oh, it's easy! you just do this or that . . . blah blah". 



The truth is, you just KEEP TRYING.


my old , now deceased, father had a scrap of paper tacked to the wall above his desk. It said this:


* "All things are hard, before they are easy."*


----------



## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

A-Rider-Called-Carvide said:


> For the people who are saying to ask for a lunge line. I have. His response is "You won't have a lunge line in a show." Which I find ridiculous. At this point, I'm thinking about not even showing in the Winter Tourny and just dropping that barn.


Oh FFS!! Drop them like a hot potato! 

I hate that attitude in instructors. “No, sweetie, you are not of the caliber to be instructing for the Olympics so just drop the act”.

Go find a nice instructor who’s got the knowledge, insight and willingness to train amateurs and who will listen to your concerns and work on them. You are paying good money for their service and please keep that in mind.

Seriously, there is no law that you have to compete and a large majority of riding public doesn’t compete - regardless of how some instructors make it seem. Once/if you feel an interest in competing - do it, but don’t think that you have to.

I get a feeling that some of those “competitions rule” instructors are pushing the students to compete entirely for their own benefit because they get their name out there regardless of the students’ affinities.


----------



## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

tinyliny said:


> I think that because dressage requires the rider to get a canter depart AT a selected spot, according to the test being done, that the rider has become more focussed an having the horse slow, collect and step UP into the canter AT that spot. But this is SOOOOOOO far away from where the OP should be focussing...


This. Exactly.

For a new rider, tension is a big part of poor riding. Still is for me. When my horse and I are working on a common goal or task, I don't think about my seat, leg tension, etc. And it often just WORKS better than when I'm in an arena and thinking about "riding". 

"_His response is "You won't have a lunge line in a show."_"

I guess my response would be to look around and ask, "_Where are the spectators?_" No one rides across the desert on a lunge line, either, but they can LEARN good things riding on a lunge line or in a round pen. If the instructor is that show-focused, they are missing the point.


----------



## Jolly101 (Jul 2, 2018)

> This is a very interesting post. It can help the rider to understand the mechanics of the canter, to be able to visualize it. I think it's a lot to ask of a beginning rider, though. But that's just my opinion. I would, however, for academic enjoyement and engagement, like to adress some points of your response, in red.
> 
> Thanks, I enjoyed reading your responses. Mabye too complicated, but I've seen it help some and I found knowing more helped me overcome an anxiety I had with jumping.
> 
> ...


And OP, just wanted to say that I can completely understand about being frighted and fear is a funny thing. I used to and still have occasionally, bad anxiety over jumping after a fall. Personally, I went to another (higher qualified) instructor with a more trained horse to use (I only had greenies to ride). So, trying another instructor and horse may really benefit you, if only for a different perspective and environment. For me, I found gathering as much knowledge, planning rides and having a instructor that was more critical helped because I needed to feel very confident in what I was doing. My other instructor (although meant well) was too encouraging and non-critical, which counter intuitively did not make me feel as confident. So, you may find a different teacher to work better for you at this stage. 

At the time, I'd also get butterflies just watching videos of people jumping, so I forced myself to watch them, including instructional videos, and planned/ visualized my rides beforehand. Sounds silly, but It definitely helped a little. 

I also suggest taking some time to understand why you have developed a fear of the counter depart, using that understanding to target what, exactly you need to reduce your anxiety for. For example, mine was feeling out of control at and between fences, so I focused on planning and troubleshooting this area. Then, take things step by step. Don't push yourself into things too fast because you can set yourself back. This is why a lunge lesson would be beneficial, so that you can slow things down.

I also tried relaxation techniques and aromatherapy, but they didn't work much for me. They may help you though


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

C begins the corner H ends the corner. When asked to pick up the canter at H you are asking between C and H so that the horse begins his canter just before or at H depending on your level. A beginner will be given leeway and allowed a few strides to accomplish the task. They are not expected to have an instantaneous, flawless transition though the better they do, the better the score.


----------

