# Why are warmbloods so much $$



## Cinder (Feb 20, 2011)

Warmbloods, I gather, are very popular horses for the showring and are quality, athletic horses although I have never seen or ridden one myself.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I am thinking one of the reasons is because of the testing a warmblood goes through to be approved for breeding & registry. Long process. Also the importing of these horses. But with shipped semen, I don't see that as a main reason anymore. The fees associated with putting a foal on the ground is quite expensive, the stallion's genes don't come cheaply. I have always thought of warmbloods as the high end sporthorse.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

ladybugsgirl said:


> So when I think of warmbloods I think of $$$$ lots and lots of $$$$. What is so special about warmbloods that make them so expensive i guess it could be for any horse really. Breeding and training have to have something to do with price i assume



Not only what waresbear has said, but majority of warmbloods have pedigrees that have relatives that have competed at the Olympic or National level, more so than any other type.

They get there because they are bred to compete at this level through testing and approval. The good ones are not just randomly bred from Joe stallion to Molly mare.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Because people should be riding TBs instead.  Waresbear and Spyder's reasons seem far more legitimate though...


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

Well Sharpie, when I was a kid, I would watch international equestrian events & us poor North Americans didn't stand a chance with our TB's against the Europeans WB's. Then NA equestrian teams started importing the WB's & now we are contenders & winners. Concidence?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Warmbloods, or sport horses are bred for sport, Olympic sport at that.

Considering most apples don't fall too far from the tree this means that breeding stock for Olympic quality sport horses have usually competed at that level themselves. So with all the international travel, international level riders and coaches working with the horse, vet fees, farrier fees and show fees the owners of the Olympic level breeding stock are spending a quarter million a year, at least, on each horse. To make this back, stud fees are a proportional amount and to keep the quality of the offspring high, semen is usually offered only to approved mares... and then the breeder puts another 5 grand per foal into vet work, 300 or so dollars a month to raise the horse to saleable age, training fees ontop of that, etc.... plus not every foal is perfect and there is a death rate!

It's all a trickle down effect to the consumer. You want an Olympic level mount? $40,000 for a "perfect" 4 year old starts to look reasonable once you run the economics...100,000 for a PSG horse, quarter mil for a GP horse... etc....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

waresbear said:


> Concidence?


Nope, I think not. WBs are bred for a REASON, and they're darn good at what they do. I still like TBs better for all-around horses though. That said, if I thought I was gonna go Grand Prix, I'd probably have to pony up and invest in a WB myself. Good thing that it's not anywhere in my future. 

There aren't too many Joe Blow WB breeders- WBs are generally bred with some forethought and by people who are more likely to know a thing or two about horses, training, and breeding than the eleventyone QH, TB and grade horse breeders out there who just want a baby out of their mare. (Not to say there aren't wonderful breeders of all breeds, and horrible ones of WB too)


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## mselizabeth (Oct 29, 2011)

I used to ride and train out of a place that bred & competed Hanoverians. The lady that owned the place did Grand Prix with hers. 
After riding them, nothing can even come close to a well trained WB. Strength, grace, stamina. Those horses are bred for the show ring, that's for sure. 

I suppose a nicely trained TB or maybe Appendix could come close.. But jumping wise, I doubt it.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

waresbear said:


> Well Sharpie, when I was a kid, I would watch international equestrian events & us poor North Americans didn't stand a chance with our TB's against the Europeans WB's. Then NA equestrian teams started importing the WB's & now we are contenders & winners. Concidence?


Check out the Aussie Olympic eventing teams 

We've done very VERY well on good old thoroughbreds, a few of our best Olympic horses have been pulled off the back of a doggers truck. 


That said, I am a big warmblood fan, for all of the reasons stated here. I don't necessarily have Olympic aspirations, but as a dressage rider, warmbloods are the way to go. In the jumping and eventing sports, you have a little more leeway with breeds, but dressage is a sport that is quite particular about warmbloods. 
I have have thoroughbreds and warmbloods, the thoroughbreds have been 'fun', and I currently have a really super tb sitting in my paddock unfortunately unsound. Tb's like him don't come around too often when you look at the numbers being bred vs the warmbloods. 
My yearling hanoverian set me back AU$10k (asking price was $14k) and that was on 'mates rates' as I am local to the stud and know the breeder. The stud fee for his sire is AU$3300, then you have collection fee, shipping costs, vet fees (have to PG mares, scanning to make sure they're ovulating, insemination fees. Then scans during the pregnancy to ensure everything is going well). Then you're feeding the mare and everything else on top of that. The breeder would not have made much profit off of my horse taking all of that into consideration, even with me purchasing him at 7 months. 

You then have the performance and stud book testing. Each year the hanoverian society flies someone over from the stud book in Germany to assess out youngstock for potential elite mare status, and acceptance into the stud book. Only the best of the stock is permitted to be branded with the hanoverian 'H' and those stock are then recorded and registered in the stud book. The young stock are also required to be DNA tested before registration. 

Breeding QUALITY warmbloods, is an extremely complicated, expensive process. Compared to a lot of the thoroughbreds where any stallion is thrown over any mare and hope for the best. Yes there is a lot of select breeding there to, but far more waste than in the warmblood breeding.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

I've seen WB on sale in my area (by the person I know) for $2 or 3K.


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## BCtazzie (Jun 7, 2011)

around here, there seams to be wb snobbery. If it's not imported........you get my drift.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

kitten_Val said:


> I've seen WB on sale in my area (by the person I know) for $2 or 3K.



The ones bred from TOP bloodlines by the farms that know which line goes with which line will cost more.

Just as there are backyard breeders out there, there are also breeders that breed warmbloods (the real kind) to other warmbloods (the real kind) without really knowing which line goes best with another. And while they are true warmbloods many are simply not top quality.

Then we have those that breed the fake warmbloods, calling them warmblood because they bred a "hot" with a "cold".


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Spyder said:


> Then we have those that breed the fake warmbloods, calling them warmblood because they bred a "hot" with a "cold".


 I've seen this one wayyy too many times. Someone breeds a Percheron to a Morgan, and suddenly they have a warmblood!


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

Kayty said:


> We've done very VERY well on good old thoroughbreds, a few of our best Olympic horses have been pulled off the back of a doggers truck.


If I was eventing I'd get a TB. 

But I do think inspections are the way to go when it comes to judging horses. Bloodlines certainly aren't everything; even two good horses can have a dud foal. Competitions are too subjective; a lot depends on the judge and on what other horses show up on the day. The advantage of inspections is that every horse is judged against the same standard.


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## pintophile (May 18, 2011)

equiniphile said:


> I've seen this one wayyy too many times. Someone breeds a Percheron to a Morgan, and suddenly they have a warmblood!


How were warmbloods originally 'created'? By selectively breeding the hotter breeds so you get both athleticism and a quieter nature? I get that you can't just take a hot blood + cold blood = warmblood, but were the colder breeds an influence at any point in time? Or are warmbloods all...hot?


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

pintophile said:


> How were warmbloods originally 'created'? By selectively breeding the hotter breeds so you get both athleticism and a quieter nature? I get that you can't just take a hot blood + cold blood = warmblood, but were the colder breeds an influence at any point in time? Or are warmbloods all...hot?



Warmbloods did not come from drafts. They came from the carriage type horse that was usable for both farm and riding...with added selective breeding using one area's (state) foundation mare population with the best suited (or desired stallion) on them.

But to truly understand the warmblood you need to understand that Germany is very much a horse oriented country and the warmblood is not a breed but a breed population defined by the likes and dislikes of that state's administrator's desire to have the best riding horse over the state next to it.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Spyder said:


> The ones bred from TOP bloodlines by the farms that know which line goes with which line will cost more.


True. The horse I was talking about was registered, but not enthusiastic about jumping/eventing, so the owner wanted to get rid of him. I don't have email with ad anymore to check the lines, but I highly doubt anything spectacular. All I was trying to say is there are cheap ones too out there. Same with, say, qh. The finished reiner or cutter costs lots of money. Which doesn't mean all of them do.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

my first horse was a CZ Warmblood. Big, very typical WB look, imported, painfully overpriced, the whole bit.... but my second horse is paint and WB cross and he's my soul mate. I literally bought him out of someone's backyard. So sometimes all the bloodlines, money, and importing in the world doesn't make for a great horse.


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## cakemom (Jul 4, 2010)

I ride a warmblood at the barn occasionally, he's like a well oiled machine that boy....
Oakhill ranch is down the road from me, Richard Freeman breeds Danish Warmbloods and has for years now, and I LOVE to just go sit and watch the trainer works and the Kuering.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

You'd be amazed at what people will pay for something exotic. There's no way I'd spend a five-figure sum on a horse, even if I could afford it. I understand they're superior athletes, but quality Thoroughbreds can do the same thing for a fraction of the price. It's a lot like John Deere tractors; you're paying for the name.

You could buy a house, a truck, a trailer, and a good horse for the price of one Grand Prix stallion. I don't know... it seems like an obvious choice to me. :-|


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

Jessabel said:


> You'd be amazed at what people will pay for something exotic. There's no way I'd spend a five-figure sum on a horse, even if I could afford it. I understand they're superior athletes, but quality Thoroughbreds can do the same thing for a fraction of the price. It's a lot like John Deere tractors; you're paying for the name.
> 
> You could buy a house, a truck, a trailer, and a good horse for the price of one Grand Prix stallion. I don't know... it seems like an obvious choice to me. :-|


_Actually, when you purchase something with quality, such as a John Deere tractor, you have to consider how much money it took to make the tractor as well. You have all the parts, all of the employees, plus overhead to pay for. _

_Same with a horse that has made it to the Grand Prix level. That horse will have hours upon hours upon hours of training, lots of show and travel mileage, not to mention all the feed, bedding, shoeing, and any other expenses. You can not make a Grand Prix horse for cheap, which is why they do not come cheap._

_Entry fees would also be a big expense. I overheard one of the short stirrup kids moms talking to someone else about showing, and she figured it averaged out to about $400 (CDN) per weekend for her daughter to show. Show season is approximately from about the end of April to the end of August, every other weekend. So for 8 to 10 shows, they paid out about $3200-4000 in show fees/trailering. For a short stirrup kid (under 12), and not even for "A" circuit shows!_

_A Grand Prix horse would be showing multiple classes over a week, not just 4 classes in one day, so now you need to count in the groom that needs to be there to take care of the horse, stalling fees, etc etc., plus still paying board at the home barn._


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Entry fees to a CDI (international competitions) the entry fee for one class can exceed $1000. That's over $100 per minute in the ring being judged.

It's a big money sport!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

not to mention the money you can win on a Prix level horse. Pfizer has a million dollar prize at HITS. You win that, and you just paid for your horse. haha!


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