# Are good trail horses born or made?



## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

I think a realistic answer for that would be, how was the horse raised? 
If he was raised in a 2 x 4 pasture, stalled, etc. He's seen nothing so everything is new to him.
But if he was raised out in a large pasture, range raised, etc. He knows already what's out there, white rocks are not monsters, to not lose his head over a snake, badger, etc. 
The ones raised out have a massive advantage over stall raised and small pastures.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

I think some good trail horses are just born...but I also agree that how and what a animal is exposed to during its training can make a huge difference in the animals ability to go where it never has before and cope or be reactive.

I think not every horse has to roam a range for exposure to different things, but have a training done with exposure by doing it, being ponied or ridden, just handled and trained using many different stimuli in a kind and supportive environment.
A sound mind of a thinker though is a great help in having a horse who looks before they head for the hills in response.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## pasomountain (Dec 19, 2018)

I think some are just naturally better than others. Allow me to share a little story--my sisters and I used to housesit for some friends who had a small farm, including 3 horses. My older sis and I were teens and our younger sis was around 10 years old. We were all horse crazy and had ridden before but not a lot of experience. With permission we rode those horses all over the place. Only later did the homeowners tell us that the young arabian mare was just greenbroke--and that's the one our little sister was riding! That horse totally took care of her though and would never even go faster than a walk--even when we were getting too far ahead or turning for home. I have no idea how the mare was raised but she was already like bombproof!


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I think that it's a little of both. It's easier with a horse that doesn't freak out over a drop of a hat. But if you drop the hat in front of one that does enough times, he gets over it.

Also, it's not always about the trails and what they encounter. Both of my horses, when trailered out, are great on the trail together or alone. Leaving the barn together, ok fine. Leaving the barn alone, "Oh no, everything is scary". They make things up to be afraid of because they don't want to leave alone. The same scary thing on the way back is nothing now. 

So yeah, when I ride out alone, we have to have a conversation about everything. This is mostly because I don't have the time to do it often right now.


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## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

This older thread is about the best treatise I’ve seen on the subject.









This is how we train a fearless trail horse!


It seems that every time I come to this site, there are 2 or 3 or even more questions about training a trail horse to go anywhere and everywhere the rider points its head. Since this is what we do for a living, I thought I would try to explain what it takes and how to go about it. We have...




www.horseforum.com


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

I too believe some just have great attitudes but, good training and exposure to lots of stimulus really helps shape them. My first horse was the most amazing trail horse at a very young age. She was still in her 2 yo year when I took her to the mountains and I never worried about that horse staying on the trail and not spooking at anything. I could get off her and tie her and leave her for up to and hour and she would always be standing calmly and just waiting when I returned. She would also ride off alone so well much like my current horse. So much confidence. Dang I miss that horse so much. She never made a bad step. I have had others that were a little sketchy even as older horses and would still spook in place.


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## beau159 (Oct 4, 2010)

VenH said:


> Meaning: can a young horse with minimal training be a good trail horse just due to it’s natural disposition? Or is a good trail horse only a product of years of training and experience on the trails?


Both. 

All horses have a natural personality and natural tendencies. Some will be more reactive, naturally. Some will be more laid back. So their personality does play a role. 

How they were handled as a baby on the ground (before riding) makes a difference too. If they were jerked on, yelled at, etc, they will lack confidence and will be likely to spook at things or feel unsafe to cross scary objects. 

*ANY* horse can be made into a solid trail horse with proper time and proper training. How long it takes to get there depends on the skill of the trainer, and the aforemented items.


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## charrorider (Sep 23, 2012)

Obviously, a good trail horse is a combination of different elements. Some of those elements are learned, some are innate. To me a good trail horse has to have a walk of no less than 3 mph (non-gaited horse). And that particular trait, I've found to be more natural than taught. One can speed up a horse with a 2.3 mph walk to 2.6, or so. But that would be it.


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## Morgan.taylor (Sep 1, 2020)

VenH said:


> Meaning: can a young horse with minimal training be a good trail horse just due to it’s natural disposition? Or is a good trail horse only a product of years of training and experience on the trails?


I would say a bit of both. 
my buckskin took to the trail perfectly as a 3yr old. I’ve hopped off an older horse and ponied the naughty one home off of her bare back. However she’s still young so I just go about things until she shows me she’s uncertain about something.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Every comment on here is correct, IMO. It just depends on the horse.

1. Years ago I bought a gorgeous 8 yr old Morab mare who had gone ring sour — a show ring was all she had known. The day I brought her home I took her to the trail along the old canal locks on the Shenango River in western PA. No saddle, just a bridle and away we went. She was sure she had found her riding Nirvana and needed very little guidance from me. She was happy in her new career as a trail horse.

2. This past March a retired show jumper came to live out his final years with me. He is 26 and has never seen a real pasture - always lived in a sand paddock with some occasional hand grazing. His life was a strict & rigorous routine of learning/practice/jumping.

His 17H self is great with ramps but still has a bit of an issue negotiating one wide step into the barn but I’m sure hock arthritis adds to the difficulty.

He is a “Mensa Smart” horse and picks up on things quickly. If he were rideable and I could still ride, I would have no qualms teaching him the beginner ropes of trail riding. While I would prefer an experienced trail rider to come along on his buddy, my dead broke trail horse, I would be fine taking the show jumper out alone .

Would I ask him to slide down a river bank? No. He’s too old/inexperienced, with too many injuries but I might ask my 28 yr old retired trail horse if he thought he “was as good once, as he ever was”.

The retired show jumper has a good head attached to his neck. He is a thinker, he is curious, he is willing. Were he rideable, there would be no reason why he couldn’t learn to enjoy hacking on groomed trails, at the hands of an experienced trail rider, capable of bringing him along.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

I do disagree with the statement that any horse can be a good trail horse. Oh if only it was that easy.

Again, it goes back to how they are raised. We had a show mare once upon a time. Fantastic cutter, but an absolute health hazard if you rode her out. I did ride her out, and quite a lot. But she could see white rock monsters half a mile away. When they are athletic enough to jump 20 feet sideways in one leap, you better be riding! I dreaded when I had to ride her out to get cattle. By "out" I mean out in my range pasture. If a rabbit jumped up, you better have a HEALTHY heart cause she would give you a heart attack!
This particular mare had been raised in smaller type pastures, and stalled a lot. She had not been exposed to anything. Even taking your jacket off in the arena could get you in to a HEAP of trouble.
All horses have their plusses, and all horses have their minuses. You just have to find one that their plus is being rode out on trails.
I should add, I rode this mare for 20 years and she was still a health hazard if you were riding out on the range. When we retired her and turned her out, she never went with the other mares over the hill to the upper pasture. She always stayed near the barn, her comfort zone.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I think it's both. They're born smart, born with good, equitable temperaments. I think they have to be trained to know how to ride out on trail and handle the obstacles and other animals they'll find out there. As some mention, the more they see as they grow up, the less you have to show them and get them used to but if they are just really wound up tight from day one, that horse is never going to settle and be a good trail animal. The more curious and willing to explore and experience new things without fear a young horse is, the better horse it'll be out on the trail. If a horse is only secure in the arena and freaks out the minute you want to just ride around the outside of it, that horse won't make a trail horse. I think it's a lot harder to make a good safe trail horse than it is to teach a horse to be a good arena horse.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Zimalia22 said:


> I do disagree with the statement that any horse can be a good trail horse. Oh if only it was that easy.
> 
> Again, it goes back to how they are raised. We had a show mare once upon a time. Fantastic cutter, but an absolute health hazard if you rode her out. I did ride her out, and quite a lot. But she could see white rock monsters half a mile away. When they are athletic enough to jump 20 feet sideways in one leap, you better be riding! I dreaded when I had to ride her out to get cattle. By "out" I mean out in my range pasture. If a rabbit jumped up, you better have a HEALTHY heart cause she would give you a heart attack!
> This particular mare had been raised in smaller type pastures, and stalled a lot. She had not been exposed to anything. Even taking your jacket off in the arena could get you in to a HEAP of trouble.
> ...


Huh, I think I bought that mare......


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## JustaPrancingPony (6 mo ago)

from personal experience, I would say both. But yeah, I agree, it really depends on what that horse has been exposed to in training. For example, there’s a horse at my old barn that one particular girl always rode.(btw she rode western) She did a mere everything with him. But his favorite were trails. He was so brave and sweet and never ever spooked at anything. one day when our lesson group went out on a trail, we started talking. This brave incredible horse who acts so been there done that was actually three. he was just 3! He came from the Amish though. he worked with them for a short period. But he was sorta born that way, but also made.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I think many factors go into making a good trail horse. First I believe personality, temperament and exposure in their early years have a lot to do with it but each horse has it's own personality and this goes a long way to the making of a trail horse.
I had two geldings both raised and trained by me, there was about 4 years age difference. The older one was a lovely gelding, one of my heart horses, but not a brave soul. I rode alone in those days so he had to go out with no horsey companions to help pave the way. He shied at so many things, even something that wasn't there today but was yesterday. to keep it short he had to go out and in time ( several years) did develop into a good trail horse and companion. He had a lot of schooling and training and was a great show horse as well.

The younger one was one of the smartest horses I have known. He was a sassy thing and questioned so many things, challenged me often and we had our times while he was learning that I was the one in charge. But he was inquisitive and wanted to be involved in whatever was going on. I started him under saddle and the third ride we were going out around the farm, just a bossel as he hadn't been introduced to a bit yet. He loved it and didn't want to turn and head back home.

There was one spot a little dicey for a young horse, drop down a ditch through rocks and trees then climb out. The older horse found this extremely difficult and wanted no part of it but this young fella just went down into and out without batting an eye. Each horse at the time we did the ditch was a three yr old.
To me this is the difference in personalities in two horses, both raised and trained the same. As I was thinking of the problems with the first horse that we might have a problem when I approached with the young horse, that this might be a challenge for him you could say he might pick up on my thoughts and be hesitant but he wasn't. The first horse I had not such thoughts in my head yet he did not want to do it.
Just the difference in two horses

I think some horses are just better at trails and other horses are better at different things.

The horse I have now you could never accuse him of being a good trail horse, it is not his comfort zone. To be fair he had never done much before I got him and arena work is his comfort zone and what he did for years, he will go out but is not easy about it. I hope this will improve with time but it is not his thing.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

A Tale of Three Horses:

Trooper was born to be a trail horse. He was named "Trooper" because - although 3/4 Arabian - he always did (does) what he is told. Forget "bonding" or "good leader" theories. Trooper _despises_ me - but he'll go anywhere I ask. I'm not even sure he perceives of a rider "asking". He seems to assume it is a command that cannot be refused. I've only seen him truly scared one time. He froze - as in, he didn't move a single step for 20 minutes. I dismounted and still couldn't get him to budge. After 20 minutes, he sighed....and was ready to go on. It isn't his training. It is who he is.

Mia became a trail horse but a very difficult one while living with me. She had been raised in corrals. Knew nothing about the outside world. And she had an intense, nervous personality. It took very little to get her past the boiling point. Once there, it would take 30 minutes to get her below 200 degrees. I ended up putting railroad ties in the corral to teach her to lift her feet over obstacles.

She was a hard-core bolter. An Aussie-style saddle kept me alive as I learned to ride on her. Eventually learned about riding out sideways leaps, dropped shoulder spins - always followed by "RUN AWAY". No, no amount of arena time cured that. It took help from a curb bit and riding her out in the scary world until one day, with help from the curb bit, I got her to hold in one place just long enough for the scary thing (motorcycle) to go away. A lightbulb clicked on. If she stayed when I said to, the scary thing would run away from her? Great! She never bolted again.

But she would startle, and her startle reaction was a 180-720 degree violent spin. This thread was about one of those violent reactions:
My first emergency dismount, from Mia...while at a full stop!​
I never got her past those. Made riding a bit traumatic at times! In May 2015, I traded her for Bandit and she moved to the Navajo reservation. And became an awesome trail horse! Why?

1) She was bred for racing. In the Sonoran Desert foothills, where I live and we rode, there is no place for a horse to run for more than a quarter mile, and darn few of those. You can't see ahead and there are a million rocks. But in NE Arizona, her new owner could and did take her out regularly for 4-5 mile gallops! I'm a life-long runner myself and know how running calms ME down. In an environment where she could run long & hard, it helped her. A year later, her new owner would get home from work, put a halter on her head, jump on her bareback, and take her for a 3 mile gallop. Then turn for home and they'd gallop halfway home...and then stroll.

2) Open country. As her stress went down, she turned into "the softest horse" they had. The new owner's wife took to riding her out (along with her foals, which may have also helped). And the country there is OPEN:






She could see for miles. Smell things for miles. Why worry? And yeah, she got to run a lot! 

So she BECAME a good trail horse...with conditions. Open country & lots of galloping - two things I could not give her here!

Bandit came here from the Navajo reservation as a swap. Standing next to Mia, I found myself wonder why in the HECK I was trading Mia for him - he's the runt on the left:






He had been raced in relay races. I was told "_You can whip him past anything if you can stay on thru the bucking!_" Sigh. He weighted 790 pounds and had been trained for the races with a 265 lb rider in a western saddle - so around 300 pounds on his 800 lb body! Braced his back like an I-beam, terrified of trash cans and did NOT appreciate mesquite brush limiting his vision! He would spook hard and sometimes want to race away. But Mia had trained me to ride that out and we quickly got the bolting taken care of.

My approach to riding was I wouldn't demand he go ANYWHERE that was "Too hard!" for him. If need be, we'd detour a half mile or scramble over rocks, but we wouldn't go unless BOTH of us were willing to go. And I soon noticed a big difference between him and Mia: Bandit NEVER dumps his mind! He could spook with cactus surrounding us and (knock on wood, seven years later) I've yet to have a spine touch me. Or him.

Once he learned he could say no and I'd accept it, he said no a lot. And then, over time, mostly stopped saying no. If he says no now, it is almost always due to a rattlesnake, coyotes or javelina. And I _want_ him to say no for those! The horse who hated even small brushes will now push thru thickets of mesquite (including thorns) without blinking an eye. He's very sure-footed and can run in places that scare ME...so most of our speed work now is at a trot. Unless on a section of good trail and then he'll happily accelerate...and then stop when asked.

He isn't perfect in the sense most people want a trail horse to be. He'd be on pins and needles going on a paved road in a neighborhood. Before pushing thru brush, he likes to pause, take a good look, smell carefully and THEN commit. I like that since rattlesnakes can be in the brush. But our rides involve constant discussion about what to do next. 

We negotiate as we go. I don't give orders, just good suggestions that seem to work out most of the time. The sticky on training a trail horse would HATE our method. Bandit spends lot of time looking around and enjoys pausing for snacks when available, like yesterday:






But he's a pretty willing soul and I trust him to use his judgment - and he respects mine. After 7 years together, OUR goal is that we do what BOTH of us agree makes sense. That makes sense to US but I gather a lot of folks would hate it. Oh well. 

Bandit is now exactly what I want in a trail horse: A thinking, active companion who negotiates, who (once he accepts X is the right thing to do) performs X with determination and courage, who warns me of danger ahead and who works _with_ me.

*Not every horse can become a good trail horse. Depends on the environment, breeding, training, opportunities - and what YOU call "a good trail horse"!*​


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

To me they are made by a strong leader which would be me
No place will Rio refuse to go. He will drop into water, pack out a deers head, carry a chain saw or climb a flight of stairs
Enter a building through a man door, not matter what he will go
Because he has a strong leader that he totally trusts
He was not born with this, he was made


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

RoadRider said:


> To me they are made by a strong leader which would be me
> No place will Rio refuse to go. He will drop into water, pack out a deers head, carry a chain saw or climb a flight of stairs
> Enter a building through a man door, not matter what he will go
> Because he has a strong leader that he totally trusts
> He was not born with this, he was made


Hmm...didn't you say in another post you selected him for certain traits? That you didn't want a mare, etc? Then I would submit a great deal of his ability to trust and be bold lies in his innate personality. That is something he was born with and you have helped it along.

If you ride many horses as the same, confident rider, it will be discovered that a horse's innate personality can be improved to some extent, but you cannot for example turn a shy, overreactive horse into one that never spooks at anything.

Saying this as someone who has started horses I felt I could ride into a lion's den, and others that spooked at blooming flowers after being ridden on trails for hundreds of miles.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

gottatrot said:


> Hmm...didn't you say in another post you selected him for certain traits? That you didn't want a mare, etc?


You are right. I select stallions because they are loners , braver, jerks but something that hasn't been spoiled by humans playing games with them
But I take is puke of a horse and turn him into something that stands out in any barn
I also use to ride problem horses and always could fix them quickly because of my ability to make them do as told
3 times horses in a barn I was at had pickup dates set for the meat truck
Tuesdays the meat buyers are in town and the horses are loaded on transport trucks and driven a few hundred miles away to Quebec to the meet plant
They are picked up locally by smaller trailers to take to the market
3 times horses in the barn were booked for this pick up
I didn't know the people that well but asked to be given and chance, 5 minutes to fix a run away
3 were run aways, one was extremely barn sour
Give me 5 minutes with any of those and I will fix it

People would say. "You will hurt him""
Yes I will but only for seconds and then it is over and you can keep him"
Every case worked out within minutes and non of them went for meat

A strong rider can fix things or make a horse
A person who plays games is just fooling themselves and the horses are going to be bad

Catching a horse is a field can also be cured quickly
Tying up can be quickly cure but don't play games


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Every one of my horses in about a month of starting them I have picked a fight and the horse is free to fight
If he want to buck he is free to do so but once this fight is fought it is over and he won't fight again
I remember Rio's fight, Strider;s fight, Titan's fight, Shadow, etc etc
Every one gets his chance to fight, no punishment, just do your best and then it is over and a new respect is born.
Like I said earlier I would fight your fight for $20 except those meat prospects. I fix them for nothing


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

There is a real balance though, between letting a horse know he needs to not do certain behaviors, and turning a horse into one that silently stresses and stops communicating with the rider even when in pain.

I've worked with horses that believed they were not allowed to express any opinion. They stressed over not doing the right thing fast enough because they had been punished for it. This meant they would act quickly, not stopping to think. Then if they chose the wrong answer they'd get super worried. They'd been taught if someone said jump, they needed to say how high.

That's not good for the psyche of any living creature, and one horse I knew kept going even when a screw worked out of the saddle and was pressing on his spine. He knew if he tried to stop, his rider would spur him. The horse ended up with permanent spine damage.


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## RoadRider / Rios Dad (Jul 2, 2009)

Was riding along yesterday, perfect day, sunny, cool , no bugs and I was lost in my dream world
Suddenly Rio stopped?? Bumped him to get him to move out. NOthing?
Then I noticed a rein had dropped and he went immediately into ground tie
Praised, picked up the rein, scratched his neck, told him he was a good boy and he understands that and rode on.
I do not ride with the rein, I use legs and the reins are for back up so when one rein dropped I didn't feel it


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