# What do you guys think? - My Ponies Colors



## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

First One is Echo, my Miniature Horse, its winter so her colors show well.

I realize shes fat, she looks a lot more fat because of her belly fuzz, but shes on a diet currently.














































I know I have heard before that Minis are weird with their coats. She has had this white speckles since I have had her when she was 3 (in 2007)

So I guess I was curious your opinion on her overall coat would be called by you!


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

The next is my Hackney Pony X Morgan, Jesse. 
_Note: it was morning and he had just finished in morning mud roll_



















(sorry, for the genital shot; he has a spot of white shown here)



























I think I have an idea what he is, but again, other peoples opinions please?

Thanks!


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Jesse also has a chin spot extending to his snip, it shades to gray.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Mini just appears to be a sorrel with a flaxen mane & tail, though summer photos are better for determining color.
The 2nd is a brown with sabino i do believe


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## FalineDear (Nov 17, 2012)

I would say 1st is a Flaxen Chestnut Rabicano or Roan? 

The 2nd is definitely a mealy bay. Just darker because of the winter coat


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

*cough* Faline the second is a brown.

Sunnymeade, can you post a couple of summer/shed out pics of the pony?


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## FalineDear (Nov 17, 2012)

Mealy Bay: Google Image Result for http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%2520Colors/colors/mealy%2520bay%2520mustang%2520baby%2520-%2520judy%2520goulet_small.jpg

Brown: Google Image Result for http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/horse-care/~/media/Files/pet-care/images-misc-sizes/brown-horse.ashx


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Faline *BOTH *those horses are brown. Brown *is a testable gene/color*. It is a variation of bay as both are forms of agouti that restrict black in different ways.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Here's a mealy bay (and as a bonus, a non-mealy bay, too, because it's in the same image):









A lot of people confuse it with brown, but mealy/pangare has white or grayish points while brown has warm, orangey-red points. Pangare can be expressed on most colors (though it doesn't appear to express on black), while brown is a "dark bay" horse. You can even have a brown horse with pangare.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Oh, and my guesses are flaxen chestnut w/ sabino (for the white ticking) for the mini, and brown for the horse, possibly also with sabino for the white markings.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Well, I was taught by all the horsemen/women in our a area that Brown is not a color, just a variation of bay. But every horse person has a different name. 

Here's some pics of Echo I found in summer:
I just get confused by her white speckles, see since I have had her, that weird star/blotch on her forehead has slowly gained more substance with each shed.



















Then some of Jesse in summer:
He always stays a black, their winter coats show more color secrets, i.e.; Jesse's black legs show more in his Winter coat.



















his papers claim hes a Dark Bay (you know how that stuff goes; ugh.), says nothing about his sabino, which I am pretty sure he is.


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Sorry double post


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

SunnyMeadeFarm said:


> Well, I was taught by all the horsemen/women in our a area that Brown is not a color, just a variation of bay. But every horse person has a different name.


It's not just a matter of a different name. The gene that causes brown has been isolated, and we can now test for it. So regardless of what you were told by people in your area, brown IS a colour, it DOES exist, and ignoring it doesn't make it any less real. For what it is worth, your Jesse is almost the text book definition of brown.


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Advancement in science will bite ya every time! 

I thought I was great at "color". Well 25 years or so of not being in it has humbled me greatly *coughs*. I've now decided I have no idea what color anything is any more. Hehe


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> It's not just a matter of a different name. The gene that causes brown has been isolated, and we can now test for it. So regardless of what you were told by people in your area, brown IS a colour, it DOES exist, and ignoring it doesn't make it any less real. For what it is worth, your Jesse is almost the text book definition of brown.



Really no need to be aggressive, its just a forum. 
But, just curious, he at times has a very clear black leg like a bay,










is that a trait of a brown? I am not familiar with it, 
also is seal brown the same as brown? what about seal bay?
Again I am not familiar with brown, you seem to know a bit on it


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## ThirteenAcres (Apr 27, 2012)

SunnyMeadeFarm said:


> Really no need to be aggressive, its just a forum.
> But, just curious, he at times has a very clear black leg like a bay,
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. The black points can also be a trait of brown. As NdAppy and Chiilaa said, bay and brown are variations of the agouti gene which restricts the black to points. Black points are not restricted to bays alone nor is it a sure tell on how to distinguish a brown from a bay.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Seal brown/seal bay are other names for brown.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Yep, most of the horses that have been called dark bay, black bay, seal bay, seal brown, etc. over the years are actually "brown" genetically. I still hate the term "brown" for that gene, though. There were so many other names already being used for it that they could have picked from... I personally think "seal bay" (At) and "classic bay" (A) would have made a lot more sense...


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Browns always confuse me too. I was always under the impression that a brown horse was basically a version of bay that was darkened to the point where the entire body looked black (which is why most people, in my area anyhow, just call them black) spare the mealy areas, like muzzle, eyes, genitals, etc, and stayed that way through summer & winter. Exactly like the OP's gelding.
Then i see threads & photos of horses that are light bay all year and then turn dark in the winter that are termed brown as well. I would say that they were just dark bays...


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

Am I the only one seeing potential silver bay in the mini? light eyelashes and dark hairs near the cornet band?? Plus the mane & tail are so uniformly silverish and don't seem to have much flaxen/yellow tone or much chestnut mixing.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

CCH said:


> Am I the only one seeing potential silver bay in the mini? light eyelashes and dark hairs near the cornet band?? Plus the mane & tail are so uniformly silverish and don't seem to have much flaxen/yellow tone or much chestnut mixing.


 Silver bay is a very common color in Minis, however i would still say that this mare is just a sorrel with flaxen. A silver bay should still appear like a bay, with a silver mane & tail and possibly silver "frosting" like the ones below.
They still have the dark points of a regular bay and the mealy muzzles & underbellies.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

CCH I think it might be your phone. The mini looks a lot like Blossom colorwise.

Lilruffin - the silvers can also be so light as to appear flaxen red...


Blossom -

















Pistol -


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Thanks for the info on brown!
and Silver never crossed my mind. NDAppy, those mini's look a lot like her! Are you saying those are silvers? or did I read it wrong?


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## CCH (Jan 23, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> CCH I think it might be your phone. The mini looks a lot like Blossom colorwise.


Who knows what I'm looking at. The photos have such brightness on my screen that it was just a thought.

I wouldn't say it is impossible for the OP's mini to be silver, but I will defer to you and others who have much more experience with silvers and minis. I will stick to splash!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Sunny the top one Blossom is a flaxen red. Pistol is a silver bay. I posted Pistol to show that silver bays can be light. I don't think your girl is because she doesn't have a sooty or dirty look to her legs like Pistol has. 

Here is a better picture showing the sooty/dirty look to his lower legs. He is nest to Blossom. 









And one of him in his later spring fuzzies - 









And one of him two months before the pic above -


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

NdAppy said:


> Sunny the top one Blossom is a flaxen red. Pistol is a silver bay. I posted Pistol to show that silver bays can be light. I don't think your girl is because she doesn't have a sooty or dirty look to her legs like Pistol has.


I agree, I can defiantly see the difference, I personally have always called my mini a Flaxen Chestnut (that become a deep red in the heart of the winter)
but is it a possibility show could be gray or a carrier of gray if that's possible? I doubt shes a dominant gray because she would be more gray by 7 years. but yea, I saw Sabino and someone said splash? I don't know about that. unless there's something I don't know about splash?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Grey is always dominant no matter what and IMO she for sure isn't grey. 

Honestly I think she just has some of the normal red ticking that red horses get.


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## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Fairly positive that second horse is brown his soft parts are very orangey colored. He is my colt Jet in winter he is bay with pangare/mealy. His light points stay year round.

This winter

















During the summer


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## SunnyMeadeFarm (Sep 3, 2012)

Okay, so her color is simply random ticking, that my overall opinion from reading all the posts. Does 'ticking' gain more substance with age? JC


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