# The Importance of Spelling and Grammar....



## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_Spelling is an important life skill for everyone to learn. Without having a good spelling comprehension, you can miss out on things such as job opportunities and partners. Spelling and grammar are the building blocks of having a clear and concise conversation. They are there so that you can communicate with ease. Although you cannot see spelling or grammar while you are speaking, how would you know where to take a pause when needed? Spelling and grammar do go hand in hand you see, for without them, you would just end up babbling ceaselessly, with no pauses or breaks. When I see someone who doesn’t take spelling seriously, I have a hard time taking them seriously. The person who has taken the time and effort to make sure that they have spelled their words properly, and that has formulated a solid question/answer is much more likely to get a well thought out answer or reply back._

_Even though we live in an age of spell checkers and grammar checkers, it is still necessary to be able to know how to proofread what you have written so that you, yourself, can see if you have worded a phrase improperly, or in a way that is not going to come across the way that you intended too. _

_There is also a difference between having a typo and having a word that is “purposely” misspelled. _

_Sentence: I always feel ridiculed when users comment on my horrible spelling._

_Typo: I alwsys feel ridiculed when users comment on my horrible spelling._

_Purposely misspelled: I always feel ridaculed when users comment on my horrable spelling._

_With the typo, the person has just happen to keyed in the S which is directly beside the A and is an easy mistake. The misspelled word though does not have that key close to it at all, and cannot be taken as a typo. Yes, you may type fast, but if you are always getting mistakes, maybe it is time to slow down and type accurately._


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## Brighteyes (Mar 8, 2009)

Mild spelling errors only bother me if the person already looks like an idiot. Then misspelling is only icing on the cake. 

Severe misspellings are annoying, because if I, one of the worst spellers that world has ever seen, can recognize your error, they're lazy. Spellcheck exists so people like me can function on the internet; if I can use it, they can too!

The only thing that really grates my nerves is PUNCTUATION. I was a born punctuation nazi. Periods are a must, at minimum. Basic comma rules aren't hard to learn and remember.I know you hate having to press two keys are once, but capitals are necessary. Chatspeak (aside from the occasional LOL, IMO...) has no place on a board of smart people.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_I am the same way about spelling.... I can understand words that are hard to spell possibly having a spelling mistake in them, but something that is common shouldn't. _

_I know I misspell definately, it is supposed to be definitely....but for whatever reason, that is always how I spell it first, and I dont always catch it._

_LOL, IMO, IMHO...sure fine. Good to go. But ur, u r, 2 (to), 4 (for) gr8 all bother me. We are not texting. You have a full keyboard in front of you. I do not even text in slang. I type whole words._


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

I hate it when people txt speak on forums. I do think spelling is extremly important and grammar.

BUT we all make mistakes 

If you are doing online applications then you gotta watch the same thing if you are writing it.

Good thing I did not have any writing on my application


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

EventersBabe said:


> BUT we all make mistakes


_I was not talking about mistakes. I am talking about people who dont care enough to type properly, or form a coherent thought before they send an email or post a thread. _

_There is a difference between a person having A(as in one) typing mistake and someone who repeatedly has misspelled words, along with horrible grammar._


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

VelvetsAB said:


> _I was not talking about mistakes. I am talking about people who dont care enough to type properly, or form a coherent thought before they send an email or post a thread. _
> 
> _There is a difference between a person having A(as in one) typing mistake and someone who repeatedly has misspelled words, along with horrible grammar._


Okay there is no need to be rude.:wink: I know there is a complete difference perhaps you shall re-read what I have said, then rephrase what you should reply with.

We all make mistakes but some just do not care. 

Like for example when someone mispells so many words and I correct them they are like who cares? Its not an issue here its not school..

dude it does matter its a pet peeve of mine. 

I mean I may have a misspelled word or some incorrect grammar but I do not do it on purpose.


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## cowpony09 (Nov 25, 2009)

Reading and writing problems have challenged my family for generations. Fortunately I got skipped on the reading comprehension problems and I can spell to save my life. I can write a word and look at it and not even realize it’s wrong. Spell check is wonderful I agree, it has really helped me but it doesn't catch everything and not all internet web sites have it readily available. My family isn't "dumb" or idiots we just have a slight learning disability. Try not to be so hard on folks, many time it’s just carelessness but some people literally can’t spell to save their life.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

cowpony09 said:


> Reading and writing problems have challenged my family for generations. Fortunately I got skipped on the reading comprehension problems and I can spell to save my life. I can write a word and look at it and not even realize it’s wrong. Spell check is wonderful I agree, it has really helped me but it doesn't catch everything and not all internet web sites have it readily available. My family isn't "dumb" or idiots we just have a slight learning disability. Try not to be so hard on folks, many time it’s just carelessness but some people literally can’t spell to save their life.


 
Yeah.
Like when I was younger I would make 100 never anything below that when I took a spelling test then the words got extremly hard as I went into HS and well it started lowering my spelling grades hah.

I have learning disabilities and its extremly hard to know what I have wrong and what I don't and I have ADD so I have a hard time paying attention as well. 
I am about to start taking medication for it so I can pay attention more and not have to worry when I am studying for a test.


But some people cannot spell or do not care to spell correctly.


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## cowpony09 (Nov 25, 2009)

All through grade school and high school I could ace all my logical math papers (algebra got me,) Ag classes, reading and history but those spelling tests KILLED me. I would study every day all week, write the words over and over and over and when I'd get to the test I'd get an 80% if I was lucky. I hated it; it was so frustrating my teachers for the longest time would always accuse me of being lazy.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

I type as I speak. Which with english not that great, in other tongues my grammar I much better. My is mostly typos and (,.?) those.
The only text chat I do this, lol, btw and Idk. 
But I could type in another tongue then you wouldn't know my bag grammar.
Like:
ona oka, koni.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

cowpony09 said:


> All through grade school and high school I could ace all my logical math papers (algebra got me,) Ag classes, reading and history but those spelling tests KILLED me. I would study every day all week, write the words over and over and over and when I'd get to the test I'd get an 80% if I was lucky. I hated it; it was so frustrating my teachers for the longest time would always accuse me of being lazy.


The only subject that I cant do with my life is MATH:-x English is slighty better, government I am taking it next semester as well as sociology and history.

I hate math I can't do it at all I mean I can but I havent had much of it since HS and I am gonna be in my 4th semester of college but I am taking it in the fall.


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## Lonestar22 (May 22, 2009)

EB- I do not think that Velvets comment was rude at all, I just think that you took it wrong. 


As for the spelling and punctuation.

Mistakes are fine. Not knowing how to spell a word is fine. But i do think that one should at least give it proper effort. If you are communicating through written word then it is EXTREMELY important to be sure that you make yourself as clear as possible. The actual meaning of what you are saying can be extremely misconstrued without proper punctuation. 

For example:













I am a firm believer in punctuation and I believe that proper sentance structure should be drilled into your head from a young age. You MUST be able to communicate properly in ALL aspects of communication. 

Here is another example of how punctuation can chaneg a sentence's meaning:

_An English professor wrote the words:_ *"A woman without her man is nothing"* _on the board and asked his students to punctuate it correctly._ 


All of the males in the class wrote: *"A woman, without her man, is nothing."* 

All the females in the class wrote: *"A woman: without her, man is nothing."*


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## cowpony09 (Nov 25, 2009)

Thats part of why I love tech school, very few general classes such as english and goverment. They still cover information involving those topics but the instructors narrow it down and specialize it to your program.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

cowpony09 said:


> Reading and writing problems have challenged my family for generations. Fortunately I got skipped on the reading comprehension problems and I can spell to save my life. I can write a word and look at it and not even realize it’s wrong. Spell check is wonderful I agree, it has really helped me but it doesn't catch everything and not all internet web sites have it readily available. My family isn't "dumb" or idiots we just have a slight learning disability. Try not to be so hard on folks, many time it’s just carelessness but some people literally can’t spell to save their life.


_I am not being hard on people. What I was trying to say in my OP is that there is laziness and not caring in what/how you spell or trying to the best of your ability. There is a difference between not caring and having some difficulties. It happens. I was NOT trying to put anyone down. My post was directed more at people who don't care about what their spelling is like....not those who have a learning disability, or who have difficulties with it. I work in a very culterally diverse factory with a lot of people who have English as a second language, but most of them try their best. They are still going to have mistakes, but they are at least trying to get it right. I understand that it isn't going to be easy for every single person to have spelling down pat....but if you are trying to spell properly, and trying to catch the mistakes that you make...but still make them, thats OK. Just not caring about it is completely different._



EventersBabe said:


> Okay there is no need to be rude.:wink: I know there is a complete difference perhaps you shall re-read what I have said, then rephrase what you should reply with.
> 
> *We all make mistakes but some just do not care. *
> 
> ...


_I do not see where I was rude in my post EB...could you please point it out? Just because here isnt school doesnt mean that spelling now has to become nonexistant. What I made bold in your post is what I was trying to point out....people dont care and they should._



Lonestar22 said:


> EB- I do not think that Velvets comment was rude at all, I just think that you took it wrong.
> /\break/\
> Mistakes are fine. Not knowing how to spell a word is fine. But i do think that one should at least give it proper effort. If you are communicating through written word then it is EXTREMELY important to be sure that you make yourself as clear as possible. The actual meaning of what you are saying can be extremely misconstrued without proper punctuation.
> /\break/\
> I am a firm believer in punctuation and I believe that proper sentance structure should be drilled into your head from a young age. You MUST be able to communicate properly in ALL aspects of communication.


_^^This!! I am not saying that everyone in the world should have 100% proper spelling....but make an effort. I make spelling mistakes, but I always proofread to try and catch anything I miss._

_It seems like schools are not giving the same amount of attention to spelling and grammar as they used to. _


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I went through a stage a few days ago where I would consistently write words with the wrong meanings. Such as "hear" for "here" or "hole" for "whole". It was incredibly strange, almost as though my hands were just working separately from my head (I don't think letters - I just write words). It's better now. 

My take on it is that we are not writing academic essays but we are writing to be easily understood. Spelling errors, shocking grammar, inappropriate words or strange word order can make it very difficult to correctly understand what someone is posting. 

The first priority of ANY writing should be for it to be easily understood but its intended audience. If the author is incapable of complex spelling or grammar (which isn't a bad thing, people all have different abilities and strengths) then they should break what they are saying down into the simplest form.

A complex sentence could be like this: "My horse has lately been exhibiting rather erratic behaviour, what could be causing this to occur?"

Instead they could just say "The other day my horse was acting really strange, what could this be?" 

I find that many people go for the complex and sort of get it muddled a little. where as it may be easier to just stick with simple words and straightforward sentences. 

Those big block posts really annoy me - the ones with no paragraphs.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

I consider that the way people express themselves defines them

What would you think of a person who talks with you while scratching their butt, digging through their nose and in same time holding a speech about bio-mechanics?

I bet your attention would be savagely torn apart.

Same with writing. I don't know about US but my country has the same issue , I guess it's global; people writing in their maternal language horribly. 
Writing and reading are learned here in more or less the same period of time in which one learns to wipe their butt properly, tie their shoes and eat with a fork. It should be an automated reflex by the time you're grown up, excepting of course real dyslexia cases. 

Failing at spelling and writing definitely makes me wonder upon the other skills mentioned above.

I dislike as well the abuse of smilies. Use it once, twice, but don't use it every god **** sentence. 
I can't help visualizing those smilies, as after all that's what they represent, facial expressions.

For example a person that keeps placing this:    in their text makes me think of some dumbass with his / her tongue hanging out and drooling all over the place.

Someone using a lot of    makes me think of Beavis & Butthead's grins


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Here's what I don't get: why the hell do any of you care? This IS NOT english class! This IS NOT school! This is a place where people are supposed to gather and ask questions. Its a place where we can get away from school and feel we are with OUR people. I do believe in correct punctuation and spelling etc... I used to work for a newspaper company as a proofreader. It was my job to make sure ads were correct and if they went out not correct, guess who's butt was on the line? Most of the time I can understand someones post/thread. If I can't, I try! If it will make someone so angry that it is misspelled then: DON'T POST!! Noone needs another mommy, noone needs another teacher, and noone needs to be corrected everytime you feel they "spell" wrong! After telling these repeat misspellers over and over again, why would you waste your breath to blow up the balloon when you know it will eventually pop! Either answer the poster/or thread or don't. This is my opinion!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Because:






And this is my opinion.

Language gets dumbified, not simplified. And so do the speakers.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

0o0o0o0o, [email protected]! Ii wuz h0pin a thrd liik dis wud cum al0ong!!!!!
Ii [email protected] itt wen sumwun tinks dat simbells n capppsss shud ocur in da mid of werds.






God, that was torture.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sissimut-icehestar (Jan 20, 2008)

I don't understand why some people think grammar and spelling are only for school. I've always thought of my spelling and grammar classes in the same catagory as my basic math classes, the few ones you actually use in real life.

My biggest fault in English would probably be my comma usage. You use them so much! :lol:


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Sunny said:


> 0o0o0o0o, [email protected]! Ii wuz h0pin a thrd liik dis wud cum al0ong!!!!!
> Ii [email protected] itt wen sumwun tinks dat simbells n capppsss shud ocur in da mid of werds.
> 
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

High fives to Velvet! Great thread. Great post!



Brighteyes said:


> Mild spelling errors only bother me if the person already looks like an idiot. Then misspelling is only icing on the cake.
> 
> Severe misspellings are annoying, because if I, one of the worst spellers that world has ever seen, can recognize your error, they're lazy. Spellcheck exists so people like me can function on the internet; if I can use it, they can too!


More high fives to Brighteyes! So true.



inaclick said:


> What would you think of a person who talks with you while scratching their butt, digging through their nose and in same time holding a speech about bio-mechanics?


That is quite the mental image you are giving me there. Terrific point, though. 



Sissimut-icehestar said:


> I don't understand why some people think grammar and spelling are only for school. I've always thought of my spelling and grammar classes in the same catagory as my basic math classes, the few ones you actually use in real life.
> 
> My biggest fault in English would probably be my comma usage. You use them so much! :lol:


Two thumbs up.

We come here to communicate with others with share a common interest. Basic grammar and spelling are part of communicating. That is why we took classes on it in school. Not so we could get a grade but so we can communicate with others.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

mbender said:


> It was my job to make sure ads were correct and if they went out *not correct*, guess who\'s butt was on the line?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then should you of all people know that the correct term here would be \"incorrect\"? :shock:


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Yep probably! The meaning is the same, I'm not getting paid to proof read and you apparently figured out what I meant!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

Either way, I appreciate proper spelling and grammar. And I am not gonna lie, if you spell things properly I tend to take you a bit more seriously.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Good. But those that have a problem know they have a problem with spelling and english know they have a problem and shouldn't be discriminated. That in my opinion is offensive! Those that know they spell wrong for the purpose of spelling wrong are here to get people like you to start threads like this. Like I said, if it bothers you that much, don't post! Have you asked this question on facebook? Have you stated this on facebook?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Mbender, I can not speak for Velvet but I am guessing her point is not to address people who try but fail, like me. I am one of the worlds worst spellers. Ask anyone who has communicated with me via a medium that does not have spell check. I try. I have always tried. I do my best.

I believe Velvet is talking about the people who basically tell you to go suck an egg when you tell them you do not understand their text speak and lack of punctuation. Those people who yell back at you, "this is not school" or "this is not a test".

An attempt to use proper grammar and spelling is part of communicating. This forum is about communicating. If you do not care to at minimum attempt to spell and capitalize and use periods, then how can you expect good answers and comments? Why should the other forum members put more effort into their topic of discussion than they did?


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

Actually I got sick of all the nonsense crap on facebook and everyone with a nose in my business so I deleted it. I will however refer to my other social network, aka THE GENERAL PUBLIC/REAL WORLD THAT I SOCIALIZE WITH, and I will let you know what their consensus is. I appreciate your concern and I am just mighty excited to do this survey for you.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

A lot of it is about respect. Not just respect for others, who are reading your posts, but also for yourself. If you have good communication skills, you should use them, not cast them aside just because "it isn't school". If you want to be taken seriously as an adult in the real world, you will have to be able to communicate effectively, and why not put the forum, or any other place where you have to write something, or talk to people, to good use, instead of slacking off and being lazy? 

I understand there are some people that don't have the skills, but for the most part, if you slow down, take just a second to read over what you've typed and make a couple minor corrections, you will be better off AND more clearly understood. For example, I just reread this post BEFORE I posted it, and corrected two mistakes. Which took me less than 30 seconds.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

ho hum, I guess you will all have to keep on hateing my posts and thinking that I am thick.

Never mind. I know that as a statemented Dyslexic with severe difficulties with spelling, reading and writing that my written communication is not brilliant, however given enough time and sufficient help I did well enough to get through an Engineering degree.
My father is also dyslexic, hasn't stopped him getting 3 degrees (civil engineering, electrical engineering and hospitality management) and speaking 6 languages fluently. Can he write in those languages? can he heck! His writing is bad enough in his native tounge of French, so when he is writing in English, german or dutch it is appauling. Italian and spanish he doesnt try writing in.


I defy you to try and say that he or I are stupid!

I went to a specialist school for Dyslexics, there where 18 yearolds in my class who could not write thier own name, It didnt stop them getting A's at A level and going on to do degrees at university. Nor did it stop a few of them going on to start businesses that are now worth millions.

I am very tolerant when it comes to the written word as most of the time I know why people are having trouble and I understand the sheer frustration that spelling, writing and reading can cause some people. It is posts like this that are the bane of dyslexic lives and can cause untold heart ache.
I have known kids who have attempted to kill themselves several times because of oppinions like those expressed by some posters. Being constantly told that you are thick, that you wont be able to do anything in life and that no one will take you seriously, it messes with your head.

Spell checkers are not the be all and end all, they only help if they are programmed correctly and you know which word out of the list it presents you with is correct!

Think before you start condemning due to poor spelling and grammer.

TXT typing on the other hand is EVIL and should be banned. If I spot excess amounts of it (other then the occassional Lol, IMHO etc) then I just ignore the post, I am not going to spend the time trying to decipher it!


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Not all dyslexics are bad spellers - and you are actually a great example.
Not all bad spellers are dyslexic.

And although I understand your frustration, this is the wrong thread to vent it.
Not even once has dyslexia been placed here in the same bucket with ignorance and laziness.

By contrary, I specifically mentioned dyslexia in my posting as a definite exception.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

inaclick said:


> *Not all dyslexics are bad spellers - and you are actually a great example.
> Not all bad spellers are dyslexic.*


But what do you think when you first see bad spelling and punctuation? do you think lazy/thick or do you think possible dyslexic?

If you are like 99% of the population you think the former first and only when dyslexia is pointed out do you start giving the benefit of the doubt. Most of the dyslexic people I know are very private about thier condition and would rather be thought of as thick then be thought of as having a learning difficulty. Not all dyslexics are as open about thier difficulties as I am. Dyslexia is also massively misunderstood, it is better understood in the science and engineering fields as that is where alot of high achieveing dyslexics gravitate.

I have a good friend who will not speak about her difficulties after she was offered a job in child care (young toddlers) and then when she told the headmistress about her dyslexia (as you are supposed to do so that the company can make reasonable adjustments) the job offer was withdrawn and she was told "we don't employ people like you."


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

Faye you are being over dramatic. Kids killing themselves because someone said they put more effort into expressing themselves clearly? There would have to be something else seriously wrong with them. A healthy kid would not decide to kill themselves because someone tells them they need to work on their spelling. These are BASIC communication skills. No one's asking anyone to write college grade essays. 

As others have said, communication in school is taught so you can use it, not discard it as soon as you graduate. 

If I read a post and I can't tell what the poster is trying to communicate, because of spelling, grammar or poor sentence structure, I immediately move on. I can't understand it, so in my mind, it's not contributing anything to the thread. 

If you want your threads to be read and considered valuable, informative contributions, you need to take the time to read your post over and make sure it makes sense, and can be understood. Otherwise, you're basically having a conversation with yourself, like a yappy puppy that just makes a lot of noise.

Posts don't have to be perfect, but if you're getting a lot of responses of "I don't understand your post", or "that's not the message I got from your post", you should probably reevaluate the way you are posting.


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## Sunny (Mar 26, 2010)

Dyslexics can click on Spell Check, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Sunny said:


> Dyslexics can click on Spell Check, too.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There are also programs that have Grammarcheck.

In this day and age of computers that can do your spelling and grammar checks for you, there's no_ real_ excuse to be incoherent or appear as if you've had a frontal lobotomy.

I rarely use Spellcheck, for the simple reason that I was taught that correct spelling and proper grammar were_ important_ if I ever wanted to be a constructive, contributing member of society.

If you don't think correct spelling and proper grammar are important, then you'd better get used to asking, "Do you want fries with that?"


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

There are two categories of people. Those that use their difficulties or disabilities as an excuse not to do better, get defensive, and still refuse to try, and those that try to do their best in SPITE of their difficulties and disabilities.

I had always thought that you, Faye, fell into the second category. The ones that throw out the same tired excuse, while at the same time not doing anything to improve upon their situation, are the ones that are looked at negatively.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

ptvintage said:


> Faye you are being over dramatic. Kids killing themselves because someone said they put more effort into expressing themselves clearly? There would have to be something else seriously wrong with them. A healthy kid would not decide to kill themselves because someone tells them they need to work on their spelling. These are BASIC communication skills. No one's asking anyone to write college grade essays.


Tell that to one kid in my year who attempted to kill himself 4 times because all his teachers ever said was that "he was thick", "would never amount to anything," "he was lazy." Or to the other kids in my school who went through similar

you've obviously never experianced anything like it. I have, the discrimination gets to you after a while, perticularly when you are a young child and you see everyone else doing wonderfully and you are trying so hard and not getting anywhere, then on top of that you are being told you are thick. Regularly failing tests, failing to live up to standards set by teachers and parents, constantly being told you are a disappointment and that you need to try harder when you are already giving 150% effort just to get the grades you are getting. Then do that, often for 10 years as dyslexia is often only picked up at about 14-16 (when kids are getting ready for GCSE's).
It is tatamount to verbal abuse and yes it can lead to depression and suicide. Heck I've been there, luckily I had one teacher when I was 9 who recognised the signs and had me statemented and then set up all the extra help. It was me being diagnosed with dyslexia that led to my dad being diagnosed as it is generaly an inherated problem.


Kids on anti depression medication was a normal thing at my school, at least untill the teachers had managed to get it into the kids heads that they were not thick, the problem could be got round and that they could make something of themselves.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

apachiedragon said:


> There are two categories of people. Those that use their difficulties or disabilities as an excuse not to do better, get defensive, and still refuse to try, and those that try to do their best in SPITE of their difficulties and disabilities.


Brilliant!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Faye, I have a friend who is dyslexic, and when she was a child in school she suffered through the same abuses.

However, that only made her _more_ determined to overcome her disability. She now has a Masters Degree, and is working on her PHD. 

Those who whine and pule, make excuses, and do nothing to overcome their disabilities get no sympathy from me. If my friend could do it, anyone can.

Anyone who would kill themselves over someone bullying them obviously had more wrong mentally than just being dyslexic. I don't agree with bullying, especially by an adult to a child, but no normal child is going to off themselves because a teacher was mean to them.


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

faye said:


> Tell that to one kid in my year who attempted to kill himself 4 times because all his teachers ever said was that "he was thick", "would never amount to anything," "he was lazy." Or to the other kids in my school who went through similar
> 
> you've obviously never experianced anything like it. I have, the discrimination gets to you after a while, perticularly when you are a young child and you see everyone else doing wonderfully and you are trying so hard and not getting anywhere, then on top of that you are being told you are thick. Regularly failing tests, failing to live up to standards set by teachers and parents, constantly being told you are a disappointment and that you need to try harder when you are already giving 150% effort just to get the grades you are getting. Then do that, often for 10 years as dyslexia is often only picked up at about 14-16 (when kids are getting ready for GCSE's).
> It is tatamount to verbal abuse and yes it can lead to depression and suicide. Heck I've been there, luckily I had one teacher when I was 9 who recognised the signs and had me statemented and then set up all the extra help. It was me being diagnosed with dyslexia that led to my dad being diagnosed as it is generaly an inherated problem.
> ...


You don't know me, you don't know what kind of life I lived. I have had plenty of issues in my own life, but I don't use it as an excuse. I certainly don't whine about it, and blame all my problems on everything else. I grew up, matured and moved on with my life.

Telling someone they need to work on their communication skill, and years of verbal abuse are two different things. That's why I said in my other post _"There would have to be something else seriously wrong with them."_ If they feel like the world is picking on them, they should get therapy and learn how to deal, not get upset when someone says that _for their own good_, they should learn how to communicate.

Basic communication skills are not rocket science. These are things you learn, like to wash your hands after using the bathroom, or don't eat rotting meat. BASIC things.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Speed racer, as I said spell checkers are not brilliant because they often lead to more confusion since they present you with a list of options and generaly I have no idea which one is correct anyway. So anything I click on for a spell checker is a wild guess anyway. The grammar checkers are even worse, because normaly what they suggest makes no sense and when you use it you get told that it is wrong! Also with grammarchecks it is dependant on what you are trying to say, as someone pointed out earlier commas in the wrong place can make the world of difference and a computer is guessing at what you are trying to say. 
For my dissertation I had a proof reader paid for by the university, she helped enormously but it was often easier to sort the grammar out with a phone call so I could say what I meant and she could sort out the grammar for that, rather then try and do it through type/email with a guess at what I was meaning to say.

If you use some computer programmes like DragonSpeak, which types as you talk then you have to programme it to recognise your voice and recognise when you want to put punctuation in. This takes proffessional help to sort out and people who try to do it alone get themselves in a mess with the grammar more then the spelling.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Folks, first of all, please calm down. 

I agree with faye here, depending on country and software used the spell check may be _very _confusing. I think one still has to try the best to spell correctly, but we have to remember not everyone here speak english as native language. I also agree some people intentionally use net speak or "made-up" words to ?look cool?, and that annoys lots of people (including me).

P.S. As for punctuation, it's very different depending on country as well.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

ptvintage said:


> Basic communication skills are not rocket science. These are things you learn, like to wash your hands after using the bathroom, or don't eat rotting meat. BASIC things.


It's not rocket science to you but then again I find maths incredibly easy and learnt very advanced maths at a young age. If I turned round to you and said that partial differentiation or linear programming was not rocket science you may say differently!

Reading body language is something you are supposedly taught by instinct at a very young age but for people with autism it may as well be rocket science just as spelling often is for dyslexics.

I have learnt to go round my difficulties and target my efforts at areas where I can excel, which is why I went for a highly numerate degree rather then a degree where I would have to write lots of essays however It annoys the hell out of me when people put others down for being unable to spell. 

Dyslexia is my soap box because I've seen what it can do to people when it is misunderstood or not taken into concideration.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Lots of times I don't use apostrophes and I'll spell some things wrong, but generally speaking I do judge someone on how they present themselves through spelling/grammar. Given that on here that is one of the first impressions I get of you it's not even a conscious thing half of the time. 

Normal spelling mistakes, typos, etc I understand. But when I have to go back and read the post 2 or 3 times to understand what exactly they are trying to say, that's when I start to want to bang my head against a wall. 

I blame a lot of this on kids communicating primarily through text and facebook (and others like it). I have graded college intro to writing classes that have used 'lol', 'he went 2 the store', "there lyke the smartest ppl evr." etc. 

May my judgement be wrong and they could have a learning disability? Absolutely. But I can't help this being my first judgment especially on a medium like this.
Hell, even all of my text messages have punctuation and proper spelling.


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

Cowgirl101 said:


> I type as I speak. Which with english not that great, in other tongues my grammar I much better. My is mostly typos and (,.?) those.
> The only text chat I do this, lol, btw and Idk.
> But I could type in another tongue then you wouldn't know my bag grammar.
> Like:
> ona oka, koni.


No offense but where are you from? Your posts are always hard to read and decipher what you are saying in my opinion. Is English your second language? No, I'm not bashing you, just asking. : )


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## netty83 (Sep 21, 2010)

Totally agree with mbender on this! The whole idea of this forum is to gather advice/give advice and gain valuable knowledge from other people. The more people that join the better. If people think their posts are being scrutinised for spelling and grammer errors then people will simply stop posting. I'm sure there are more important things to be worrying about which is why most of us are on here. Apologies if someone has made similar comments before this, I didn't have time to read through it all.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

OK, folks. Now I'm getting serious (after removing 2 posts in this thread). _*Please, BE NICE to each other! *_


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Wow. This thread has derailed nicely! I never expected this! 

I didn't read in ANY of the posts that folks who couldn't speak were stupid. I heard lazy. Not stupid. There are several posters on this BB that drive people insane with the chat speak, misspelled words and bad grammar. 

Faye, I never even noticed anything different about the way you communicate. You're posts are easy to read and to the point. If you are disabled, and I doubt you would make that up, I cannot tell. 

Ina - am I wrong in thinking that english isn't your first language? I thought about referring you to another poster who also claims that english isn't her first language. I have never had one bit of trouble reading your posts. I am usually too busy laughing though!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

corinowalk said:


> Faye, I never even noticed anything different about the way you communicate. You're posts are easy to read and to the point. If you are disabled, and I doubt you would make that up, I cannot tell.


100% agree with that.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

And I do notice that a couple of you who are heading toward the defensive side have used capitols, punctuation, and nearly correct spelling in most of your posts. Am I wrong in thinking that you took a second to press down a shift key or type out a word rather than abbreviating? Then you are making at least some effort to be correct and present your arguments in a mature manner. Therefore on some level, you must understand that it is important to at least try to make your posts clear and readable. All it takes is basic effort. Isn't it easier to try to be correct than to defend yourself all the time for doing it improperly?


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Yep, English isn't my first language.
However when i wrote my post I was thinking of my own bad spellers of my own country.
I'd never judge someone on how they write a second language, unless they have a diploma and are paid to speak it flawlessly. Such as a certified translator or a teacher.
No matter the language I assure you the mistakes and causes and even percentages are the same :lol:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

corinowalk said:


> Ina - am I wrong in thinking that english isn't your first language? I thought about referring you to another poster who also claims that english isn't her first language. I have never had one bit of trouble reading your posts. I am usually too busy laughing though!


:lol: <----Just for Ina.

I do agree with Cori's post.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

mbender said:


> Here's what I don't get: why the hell do any of you care? This IS NOT english class! This IS NOT school! This is a place where people are supposed to gather and ask questions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Maybe just maybe because a well written out question with details that are understood by everyone will get you an answer that you ALSO can understand.

Like a question...Can U tell me hw to fx this?

I could answer.......... I dnt no!


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

I think spelling is important, grammar not so much, except when there is something written with no periods at all. That's the only time it gets confusing. For me I'm comma happy. I'll put commas everywhere. 

Spell checks save me a lot, but they don't work that well. Computers are as smart as the people using them, that's what I think. I posted something on here before and I spelled granite, I meant granted...I felt like an idiot when someone pointed it out to me. I actually never knew that granted was how it was spelled. Of course spell check failed me, and I looked dumb.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> Folks, first of all, please calm down.
> 
> I agree with faye here, depending on country and software used the spell check may be _very _confusing. I think one still has to try the best to spell correctly, but we have to remember not everyone here speak english as native language. I also agree some people intentionally use net speak or "made-up" words to ?look cool?, and that annoys lots of people (including me).
> 
> P.S. As for punctuation, it's very different depending on country as well.


Yep there is a very very big difference between English US and English UK.

When my spellcheck is set to English US Z's start appearing and U's start disapearing!


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

I'm not sure how people take my English, personally I think it has perhaps deteriorated a bit recently. Like most of you already know, I don't speak English as my 1st language :lol:. And nah, Sis, they use so _little_ commas in English if you compare it for example with Finnish :wink:. I find English spelling is easy for me since I mainly communicate with written English but then my oral spelling is horrible. That's because we have just one phone for one letter in my 1st language, so it can be a bit hard for me to discern different phones when you don't speak that language so much and have accepted the written form. It's also true that people become annoyed because of mistakes in their native language very easily, I admit it doesn't feel nice if I notice someone doesn't pay attention to compound words.

I know that when writing English, I do some consicious mistakes every now and then, can for example use a comma before word "that" that I've heard is incorrect. I still see a mistake here and there is okay if you mainly pay attention to your way to write.

About the smileys, I think that even overuse of them doesn't perhaps seem to be nice, a good smiley here and there is vital. Since you don't have your body language, tone etc. when writing, you perhaps need to clear meaning of your message via some other ways and I see smileys are good for that.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Spyder said:


> Maybe just maybe because a well written out question with details that are understood by everyone will get you an answer that you ALSO can understand.
> 
> Like a question...Can U tell me hw to fx this?
> 
> I could answer.......... I dnt no!


Lol! That's a brilliant summary, Spyder!

I too avoid answering the posts with net speak. Because I'm not gonna spend my time trying to understand the question behind it.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I find most of our foreign members do a perfectly fine job of making a clear and easy to understand post.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Well I surely hope I don't start some other endless flame war, but in my case that is because my job depends on it.

In here if you want a good job and a decent salary in my domain (IT tech) you will try and join one of the large IT corporations that has subsidiaries in our country.

They pay better, they treat us better, they surely won't go bankrupt as easy as a small firm with 4 employees, they offer good benefits etc.

I would not have had the last....4 jobs actually if I could not express myself eloquently and correct both orally and writing. Because the interviews and everything were in English, my manager is from US, my job consists of handling technical issues sent from users all over the world in English.

The only Romanian I speak at work is "Shall we go for lunch now or later?


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I have an issue with Spell Check and Grammar Check - don't get me wrong, I think it has its' place.....but.......I'll give you an example as to why it irks me....

I have a friend who is going to school to become a History Teacher. She speaks clearly and educatedly and I can fully understand what she is saying to me, but...when I read her posts on Facebook, her spelling makes me cross my eyes and groan.

She is a horrible speller, and it makes me baffled as to how she is progressing through her courses to reach her ultimate goal of being a Teacher?!?!?!?!?! So one day I asked her, after I corrected her spelling on Facebook, "How do you write out your Essays and Papers, and end up recieving good grades?" and her response was "I do not have to write out anything, I use my laptop and my laptop corrects all my spelling and grammar errors"










So.........she isn't learning anything. The spellcheck is not aiding her at all, not helping her grow or learn...just muting her issues of spelling and grammar.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

I think that when someone posts a thread and its difficult for most of us to read, many of you "grammar/punctuation correct" people jump at the first misunderstood wording without knowing the reason for the misspelling. I think the way you answer the person, who has misspelled or didn't use punctuation, comes off rude and offensive. Its no wonder many of the spelling challenged people become defensive and upset. I can understand when someone writes with no commas or misspelled words that its hard to understand and how can we respond if we don't understand. Fine. But, do we necessarily have to attack them? No! You don't know their background, or know where they come from. I believe a lot of people do try to use correct spelling and such but is it our place to judge them or correct them for everything they write? As I said before, if you don't understand the post/thread, don't be rude or attack that person, simply MOVE ON! Or the people who have a little bit of a heart and compassion can nicely ask that person to reword the posting. Or nicely say "hey, not sure exactly what it is your asking/ saying, can you help me out to better understand?" And as for people who have tried suicide... You know what, you have NO idea what that person has gone through or what they are going through!!! So to say "that is being over dramatic", is an ignorant thing to say! Any person can have their breaking point! If you haven't gone through depression, teasing, and a constant day to day trying to fit in, you have NO idea what a person feels about a particular thing in their life!!!! Look at some of the kids who, Never in your life, would you have thought they could SNAP, but they did and it was violent! To take such problems as dyslexia and autism and ADHD etc... Lightly is asinine!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Paragraphs are also good for effective communication.

I don't read massive blocks of text, so mbender, while you may have had a point, I didn't get it because I won't read posts that aren't paragraphed.

There's simply no excuse, barring a TBI, that someone should be completely indifferent about communicating properly.

This is a_ written_ medium. If you don't want to use it properly, then I suggest going to Skype or having telephone conversations.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I think that is the case with many people, MIE. I think others find they learn the spelling of some words after spell check has helped them several times.

My example of something I learned because of spell check is alot is not a word, it is a lot.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I always think of the alot monster from hyperbole and a half...


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I _love_ Hyperbole and a Half.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

I have a question, I guess mainly for Faye, but anyone who knows can answer. And I promise I'm not trying to be snarky, it is a legitimate question. Do you, having dyslexia, find it easier to read things written by other dyslexics because you know the thought process behind it? Or does it make a difference? I know it's slightly off topic, but I'm curious, and this seems as good a thread as any to ask, since we are discussing language.


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Alwaysbehind said:


> I think that is the case with many people, MIE. I think others find they learn the spelling of some words after spell check has helped them several times.
> 
> My example of something I learned because of spell check is alot is not a word, it is a lot.



I learned from spell check too...I used to spell meant, ment.


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## Sissimut-icehestar (Jan 20, 2008)

TaMMa89 said:


> And nah, Sis, they use so _little_ commas in English if you compare it for example with Finnish :wink:.


 They use MORE commas in Finnish?:shock: I remember reading one text in my English textbook last year, all the commas were driving me mad! I don't think I could handle Finnish :lol:


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

SpeedRacer: that makes you "lazy". I don't give a crap if there is a paragraph or not! You are way too petty! If the small things in life get you so riled, you will have a problem. There are far worse things in life than paragraphs, punctuation, grammar, and spelling. Sweating over the small stuff will only make life harder! I have said what I need to on this thread and will stand by every word. You however, can continue to be the grammar police and put all your energy in correcting everybody while I continue to use this forum for what it was made for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

mbender said:


> SpeedRacer: that makes you "lazy". I don't give a crap if there is a paragraph or not! You are way too petty! If the small things in life get you so riled, you will have a problem. There are far worse things in life than paragraphs, punctuation, grammar, and spelling. Sweating over the small stuff will only make life harder! I have said what I need to on this thread and will stand by every word. You however, can continue to be the grammar police and put all your energy in correcting everybody while I continue to use this forum for what it was made for.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It seems to me like you are the one getting your panties in a wad. I agree with SP, it is far too difficult to sit and try to read a post that is just a huge, massive block of text. In my opinion if you want to be taken seriously, use decent grammer, spelling and paragraphs.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

> My example of something I learned because of spell check is alot is not a word, it is a lot.


lol, I spell that word incorrectly quite often. I do spell the word "Alot" and I have to catch myself to correct it.

I do find, that being Canadian I do spell certain words differently - like the word Colour..instead of Color. And I also spell Cheque, not Check and etc, etc.

"They" did a studdy on the "English Education" of American's today, deciphering where students level of education in Spelling and Grammar is today, and the results were quite poor, sadly. "They" blame Spellcheck, stating that it doesn't teach people who use it to spell correctly, or use grammar correctly - just does the job for them. 

Due to today being such a technically advanced era, everyone uses computers to do their homework, write essays and papers, instead of writing long hand like our past generations did, spelling has become worse, due to this.

Interesting studdy, I watched it on CNN news, but that was a while back so I cannot remember what they were saying word for word.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Paragraphs are also good for effective communication.



> I don't read massive blocks of text, so mbender, while you may have had a point, I didn't get it because I won't read posts that aren't paragraphed.


Sorry! Everyone was posting when I was too  lol. I just submitted my last post, when I saw I missed so many.

I agree SR - I too have a very difficult time reading block paragraphs. I honestly, just by pass them and do not bother. It doesn't make me lazy, I just have a difficult time deciphering what is trying to be said, when all the words are jumbled up.

If Novelists viewed the same opinion as yours mnbender, books would be a jarbled mess as well - and who'd want to read them? I wouldn't. But no, we see proper paragraphs and scentences put together to make a clear, and precise story, for all to understand and digest mentally.

I have a hard time mentally digesting anything said by someone, who posts their words in a large clump. It is nothing against the person at all, or belittling their intelligence or education - it is just difficult for me to comprehend what is trying to be conveyed to myself and other readers.

I personally, enjoy reading post, that has their wordings, paragraphed and made into clear and precise scentences. That way, I can mentally digest what is being said, and understand what is trying to be conveyed.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

apachiedragon said:


> I have a question, I guess mainly for Faye, but anyone who knows can answer. And I promise I'm not trying to be snarky, it is a legitimate question. Do you, having dyslexia, find it easier to read things written by other dyslexics because you know the thought process behind it? Or does it make a difference? I know it's slightly off topic, but I'm curious, and this seems as good a thread as any to ask, since we are discussing language.


I find it easier to read correctly spelt text then I do dyslexic text and I dont understand txt at all. Takes me about 30 mins to figure txt out and then it is only because I write it out fully.

However I do find it easier to read dyslexic writings than my non dyslexic mother does. I also find it easier than mum does if I'm reading something written by a person for whom english isnt a first language. When I read over my dads essays I find them fine but thats because my mind automaticly skips over his French sentance structure, mum on the other hand struggles to make his sentances make sense.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Maybe I should get spellcheck. I don't have it on the forum right now...it probably wouldn't hurt! *laugh*


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Cori, if you do not use spell check at all I say you have a pretty good grasp on proper spelling so I would not lose too much sleep over it.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Thanks Faye, that's really interesting.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

faye said:


> I find it easier to read correctly spelt text then I do dyslexic text and I dont understand txt at all. Takes me about 30 mins to figure txt out and then it is only because I write it out fully.
> 
> However I do find it easier to read dyslexic writings than my non dyslexic mother does. I also find it easier than mum does if I'm reading something written by a person for whom english isnt a first language. When I read over my dads essays I find them fine but thats because my mind automaticly skips over his French sentance structure, mum on the other hand struggles to make his sentances make sense.


This is very interesting to me. Thank you, Faye for allowing us to understand dyslexia a little better. My Uncle was dyslexic and no one ever really explained it to us. I would much rather be educated on the issue than ignorant of it.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

When I click the spell checker button on the forum, it tells me I need to download something from some website. I give it my best and hope that no one picks on me too bad if I misspell something.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

once you do some investigation into it, dyslexia is a fasinating thing.

One of the tell tale give aways is if you have a child sat down doing a jigsaw, most children will use both hands, Dyslexics generaly will only use one hand. When writing dyslexics also tend not to brace the paper with thier other hand. 

One coping mechanism for a lot of dyslexics is useing a lot of colour in the writing. I learnt spelling by using different coloured pens for different sounds and my books were always the most colourful ones in the class (you should see my uni notes, they provided me with printouts before the lectures and I wrote all over them in coloured pen, I also recorded the lectures so I could take them home and play them back slower so that I didnt miss anything important because I couldnt write quick enough)
With young girls this is very often just written off as perfectly normal, but can be a dead giveaway!


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

That's fine and yes maybe I should put paragraphs in. And yes maybe my panties are getting quite bunched, but when I see the ignorance written by some people, it fires me up cuz it hits home. My son has ADHD, and struggles daily with school life and life in general. My greatest fear is him feeling ridiculed to the point of him committing suicide. So excuse me for the fire burning out of control. As far as the paragraphs, I'm on my phone and it is difficult to tab down to start a new paragraph. This is not a computer. When I learn to do it without erasing everything I've written, I will put paragraphs in. So excuse my long, jumbled mess.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

mbender said:


> That's fine and yes maybe I should put paragraphs in. And yes maybe my panties are getting quite bunched, but when I see the ignorance written by some people, it fires me up cuz it hits home. My son has ADHD, and struggles daily with school life and life in general. My greatest fear is him feeling ridiculed to the point of him committing suicide. So excuse me for the fire burning out of control. As far as the paragraphs, I'm on my phone and it is difficult to tab down to start a new paragraph. This is not a computer. When I learn to do it without erasing everything I've written, I will put paragraphs in. So excuse my long, jumbled mess.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No need to get angry..I can understand how it's a huge pain to do on a phone, I also did not realize or look to see that you were posting from your phone. I was just saying for future reference it's quite aggravating trying to read. 

I'm sorry your son has ADHD but a lot of people I know do too, so you are not the only one in that boat you know.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I am amazed at how many people are completely missing the whole point of this thread. Velvet, this is a wonderful thread that should have made certain people aware of the way that they type or make an attempt to do better instead of having people get instantly defensive.

I believe that this thread was started to address the posters on this forum who simply _do not care enough_ to learn how to communicate properly. I'm not talking about the people who are typing English as a second language or the people from other countries who are English speaking or even those with learning disabilities. Embarrassingly enough, most of the posters that this thread is likely directed at are young _American_ teens.

Nobody is going to begrudge a person a few spelling or grammar mistakes when it is clear that they are at least making at attempt. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and we all realize that. Spell checker is a lifesaver for me because it saves a significant amount of time that I would have normally spent proofreading. I sometimes type too fast and my fingers get ahead of my brain. In the words of Forrest Gump...... "Sh*t happens".

its hte ppl hoo cant boter 2 evn tak the time 2 reraed wat thay rote to mak sur its unerstnandabal 2 other ppl that bug us capatalising sentenses an useing basic puntuaton go along way n geting yor point acros whn ppl cant at lest use periods than theyr is kno way 2 evn saparate difrent thots

It's posts that are written like that and consist of one huge paragraph that are so frustrating. I am guilty of doing the non-paragraph thing as well. I just forget sometimes and get too involved in what I am typing. However, I do at least use mostly proper language so that even if it is all bunched up, it isn't garbled as well.

One of the reasons why having at least basic communication skills is a necessity here, as well as life, instead of just the classroom is because hardly anybody who may have worthwhile information is going to take the time to try to decipher what was written. I have opened several threads that were written almost the same way as the example I posted and immediately closed back out of them. Did the poster have an actual problem and need help? Maybe, but I am not going to take an extensive amount of my own time and give myself a headache trying to read a post from someone who doesn't have enough respect for themselves or others to at least try.

Most of us are old enough to recognize when someone posting is not a native English speaker. There is usually a certain syntax that those people use that is fairly obvious and most everyone is very forgiving of that. If there is something that isn't being clearly understood, we will ask for further details or a different explanation. If you read enough and spend enough time on places like this, you come to recognize the people who are trying but having difficulty and those that just don't care.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

smrobs said:


> If you read enough and spend enough time on places like this, you come to recognize the people who are trying but having difficulty and those that *just don't care*.


Exactly, smrobs. Excellent synopsis.


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## ptvintage (Feb 12, 2010)

Thank you smrobs, that is exactly it.


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Exactly, smrobs. Excellent synopsis.


Agreed.


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## EventersBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Exactly. Thank-you smrobs.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Very well put, smrobs!


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

cowpony09 said:


> All through grade school and high school I could ace all my logical math papers (algebra got me,) Ag classes, reading and history *but those spelling tests KILLED me*. I would study every day all week, write the words over and over and over and when I'd get to the test I'd get an 80% if I was lucky. I hated it; it was so frustrating my teachers for the longest time would always accuse me of being lazy.


Oh you are not alone, they KILLED me too.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Fantastic thread!

I really think people are missing the point. Everybody is fully aware that language is a strong point for some and a weak point for others. I am a bit of a language Nazi, but ask me to do algebra and I'll stare at you like you're speaking German. Nobody is expecting the whole world to be language fanatics, it just certainly speaks volumes about a person's personality who is ABLE and simply refuses.

For example, I see absolutely no issue with the posts by *faye.* I see very few errors, and the ones that do present appear to be genuine. Any "mistakes" I see in your post do not appear to be from lack of trying. It is quite easy to read your posts. There are MANY members on this forum who fall into that category - they may not have perfect language skills, but it's easy to read the posts and tell the mistakes are genuine. 

I simply refuse to talk to people who talk in net speak or produce posts that are essentially nothing more then word vomit. Yes, there may be a reason I suppose, but when someone is inserting a comma every third word and radically misspelling words, it tends to be rather easy to identify the individuals who would rather mash their keyboard violently then be seen as an intelligent and useful member of society.

I find English as a second language the WORST excuse. I am sorry, but *Cowgirl101 *is a perfect example of using language as an excuse to not TRY. *Tamma89 *is a perfect example of someone who has good language skills PERIOD. You can tell by her word structure at times that English is not her first language, but you can see the work and effort that goes into learning it properly. We have tons of members on this board who come from countries where English is not the first language, and somehow they manage to communicate just fine with only the occasional dropping of words like the or s/he. 

That's my humble ol' opinion anyway! It all boils down to effort, and 90% of the time it is blatantly obvious who's giving a **** and who simply couldn't be bothered to actually work for anything or put effort into anything.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Fantastic thread!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes! Also I hate when people substitute you with u, or people with ppl, etc. It's really annoying to me!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Katesrider011 said:


> Yes! Also I hate when people substitute you with u, or people with ppl, etc. It's really annoying to me!


Actually, when people joined the forum, they agreed not to use text speak. It's part of the Forum Rules.

So if you see someone deliberately using text speak, alert the Mods.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Actually, when people joined the forum, they agreed not to use text speak. It's part of the Forum Rules.
> 
> So if you see someone deliberately using text speak, alert the Mods.


Well this isn't on the forum, more of youtube and such. I've only seen it once on the forum.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Yes, the misspellings, complete lack of proper grammar, and text speak abominations are rampant on YouBoob and Facebook. Nothing we can do about that, though.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I have decided the comments section of youtube is one of the rings of hell. I avoid reading them at all costs...nothing good ever seems to come of it


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Yes, the misspellings, complete lack of proper grammar, and text speak abominations are rampant on YouBoob and Facebook. Nothing we can do about that, though.


Sadly...


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

While I have account on FB, I go there may be once in 3 months. Mostly because comments like "Was in bathroom" or "Had coffee with John" drive me crazy. :roll:


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

kitten_Val said:


> While I have account on FB, I go there may be once in 3 months. Mostly because comments like "Was in bathroom" or "Had coffee with John" drive me crazy. :roll:


I don't update statuses anymore.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I freakin' _hate_ Facebook and Twitter. 

Seriously, all they've turned out to be are stream of consciousness postings for completely self absorbed twits who think the sun rises and sets in their bums, and every little banal thing they do is fascinating. :-x


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## TheRoughrider21 (Aug 25, 2009)

apachiedragon said:


> I have a question, I guess mainly for Faye, but anyone who knows can answer. And I promise I'm not trying to be snarky, it is a legitimate question. Do you, having dyslexia, find it easier to read things written by other dyslexics because you know the thought process behind it? Or does it make a difference? I know it's slightly off topic, but I'm curious, and this seems as good a thread as any to ask, since we are discussing language.


I have mild dyslexic but no one in school knows. I find it much easier to read normal writing, but I don't write like I'm dyslexic. Or not that anyone would know. Most of the time, I mix up my words. If I'm supposed to be written, say horse, I'll spell it hrose, or something like that. Or if I'm written the date instead of writing it the normal way 12-3-10, I write 10-3-12. If I have to write down something that someone speaks out loud, most of the time I write it backwards. But I catch myself and I've learned to proofread my writings and hopefully catch most of it. I can read very well though, which surprises many people. I'm also a very good speller, top 10 baby! =P

Anywhos, Velvet, I think this is a great post. Its very hard for me to read posts where there are lots of mis-spellings and grammer issues so I usually don't spend the time to try to read them. I get if its an occasional typo or puncuation error but every other word is something I can't stand. I understand if English isn't your first language and most of the time you can tell becasue they use more "proper" Englsih. And, I have a question, there's actually a spell checker on here?


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## ErikaLynn (Aug 3, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> I have decided the comments section of youtube is one of the rings of hell. I avoid reading them at all costs...nothing good ever seems to come of it



I think YouTube comments are hilarious. I'm sure it just depends on what video you watch though.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> I freakin' _hate_ Facebook and Twitter.
> 
> Seriously, all they've turned out to be are stream of consciousness postings for completely self absorbed twits who think the sun rises and sets in their bums, and every little banal thing they do is fascinating. :-x


Oh, and they complain about how depressed they think they are! REAL depression sufferers don't post statuses about it all the time!


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

I really like Facebook but then I don't think I use it like most people do. For me, it's a fast easy way to update friends/family on my kids. I can post pictures/updates and if those I have as friends want to view them, they can. If they aren't interested, they don't need to and don't feel like they need to respond, like if I had directly e-mailed them. The rest of my family does the same so I can go view pics of my nieces/nephews when I want to. Thankfully, none of my friends or family feels the need to constantly provide trivial updates.

Firefox has a built-in spell checker, it's great for pointing out my typos. I usually do not have issues with spelling, it's the typing!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

ErikaLynn said:


> I think YouTube comments are hilarious. I'm sure it just depends on what video you watch though.


I agree on that one. I mostly watch older songs (some from movies), and most comments are really interesting (some also tell you who was the original singer or the author for the particular song and so on). 

SR, I'm with you on FB and Twitter. And those really strange people trying to be "friends" with you... I mean, c'mon people, who you are in 1st place. I think FB is a right place if you look for someone (old friend or classmate) you don't have email/address for, but not to tell everyone every single min of your life (like some folks do). Also security on FB is just ..... junk (for the lack of stronger word allowed by forum rules :wink: ). Anyway, sorry for the rant - I have a huge dislike for those site after reading about their security and what they do with the data the users provide them with....


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

_I apologize ahead of time because my reply to this will take up two posts......_



mbender said:


> Here's what I don't get: why the hell do any of you care? This IS NOT english class! This IS NOT school! This is a place where people are supposed to gather and ask questions. Its a place where we can get away from school and feel we are with OUR people. I do believe in correct punctuation and spelling etc... I used to work for a newspaper company as a proofreader. It was my job to make sure ads were correct and if they went out not correct, guess who's butt was on the line? Most of the time I can understand someones post/thread. If I can't, I try! If it will make someone so angry that it is misspelled then: DON'T POST!! Noone needs another mommy, noone needs another teacher, and noone needs to be corrected everytime you feel they "spell" wrong! After telling these repeat misspellers over and over again, why would you waste your breath to blow up the balloon when you know it will eventually pop! Either answer the poster/or thread or don't. This is my opinion!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Spelling and grammar are needed beyond school. I am not trying to be someone else's mommy, just trying to point out that it is an *important* *LIFE skill*. Yes, skill._



Sunny said:


> 0o0o0o0o, [email protected]! Ii wuz h0pin a thrd liik dis wud cum al0ong!!!!!
> Ii [email protected] itt wen sumwun tinks dat simbells n capppsss shud ocur in da mid of werds.
> 
> God, that was torture.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_LOL!_



Sissimut-icehestar said:


> I don't understand why some people think grammar and spelling are only for school. I've always thought of my spelling and grammar classes in the same catagory as my basic math classes, the few ones you actually use in real life.


_Exactly. Why is everyone doing algebra when not everyone is going to use it? There should be more emphasis on spelling and grammar. Yes, math is still important...but I will never need to use calculus. _



mbender said:


> Good. But those that have a problem know they have a problem with spelling and english know they have a problem and shouldn't be discriminated. That in my opinion is offensive! Those that know they spell wrong for the purpose of spelling wrong are here to get people like you to start threads like this. Like I said, if it bothers you that much, don't post! Have you asked this question on facebook? Have you stated this on facebook?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_OK...again...I am not discriminating against those who have legitimate (keyword) problem. However, I will discriminate against those who don't give a crap and don't even bother to try. I correct my boyfriends spelling and grammar all the time. I tell my mom, yes--my mother, to not text speak. _



apachiedragon said:


> A lot of it is about respect. Not just respect for others, who are reading your posts, but also for yourself. If you have good communication skills, you should use them, not cast them aside just because "it isn't school". If you want to be taken seriously as an adult in the real world, you will have to be able to communicate effectively, and why not put the forum, or any other place where you have to write something, or talk to people, to good use, instead of slacking off and being lazy?


_This is exactly what I am trying to get across. Thank you Apachie._



faye said:


> ho hum, I guess you will all have to keep on hateing my posts and thinking that I am thick.
> 
> Never mind. I know that as a statemented Dyslexic with severe difficulties with spelling, reading and writing that my written communication is not brilliant, however given enough time and sufficient help I did well enough to get through an Engineering degree.
> My father is also dyslexic, hasn't stopped him getting 3 degrees (civil engineering, electrical engineering and hospitality management) and speaking 6 languages fluently. Can he write in those languages? can he heck! His writing is bad enough in his native tounge of French, so when he is writing in English, german or dutch it is appauling. Italian and spanish he doesnt try writing in.


_I shortened your post to shorten my post....but just to start off, I never called anyone stupid, or said anything about people being stupid because they couldnt spell._

_I also agree with the many others who have stated that I would have never guessed that you are dyslexic. Yes, maybe the odd spelling mistake, or something worded differently due to where you are from, but you normally have a well put together post. Obviously your father has worked hard to get his three degrees and didn't let being dyslexic get in the way of it. He didn't go "oh poor me...I am dyslexic so I can not do -blank-!"_


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

ptvintage said:


> If I read a post and I can't tell what the poster is trying to communicate, because of spelling, grammar or poor sentence structure, I immediately move on. I can't understand it, so in my mind, it's not contributing anything to the thread.
> 
> If you want your threads to be read and considered valuable, informative contributions, you need to take the time to read your post over and make sure it makes sense, and can be understood. Otherwise, you're basically having a conversation with yourself, like a yappy puppy that just makes a lot of noise.
> 
> Posts don't have to be perfect, but if you're getting a lot of responses of "I don't understand your post", or "that's not the message I got from your post", you should probably reevaluate the way you are posting.


_^^This! I most definitely agree. If you as a poster are continuously getting comments back about not understanding, then it is YOU who should be fixing it. _



Speed Racer said:


> There are also programs that have Grammarcheck.
> 
> In this day and age of computers that can do your spelling and grammar checks for you, there's no_ real_ excuse to be incoherent or appear as if you've had a frontal lobotomy.
> 
> ...


_Exactly. I was also taught that spelling is important, just as grammar is. Since this is posted in the teen thread and directed at them, they should be thinking seriously about how not being able to spell could effect them for their future._



apachiedragon said:


> There are two categories of people. Those that use their difficulties or disabilities as an excuse not to do better, get defensive, and still refuse to try, and those that try to do their best in SPITE of their difficulties and disabilities.


_Again....thank you Apachie._



Spastic_Dove said:


> Lots of times I don't use apostrophes and I'll spell some things wrong, but generally speaking I do judge someone on how they present themselves through spelling/grammar. Given that on here that is one of the first impressions I get of you it's not even a conscious thing half of the time.
> 
> Normal spelling mistakes, typos, etc I understand. But when I have to go back and read the post 2 or 3 times to understand what exactly they are trying to say, that's when I start to want to bang my head against a wall.
> 
> ...


_It is hard not to judge when this is all you know of a person, and most likely will ever know of a person. I am all for normal spelling mistakes....like the word necessary....I always want to spell it neccessary. If someone conveyed their message properly, we wouldn't have to bang our heads against the wall. _

_I also text in full words with proper punctuation. :wink:_



netty83 said:


> Totally agree with mbender on this! The whole idea of this forum is to gather advice/give advice and gain valuable knowledge from other people. The more people that join the better. If people think their posts are being scrutinised for spelling and grammer errors then people will simply stop posting. I'm sure there are more important things to be worrying about which is why most of us are on here. Apologies if someone has made similar comments before this, I didn't have time to read through it all.


_How can you give or gain advice if you can not ask a question properly so that everyone can understand it? How can you give someone an appropriate answer if you cannot formulate the proper sentance?_



ErikaLynn said:


> I think spelling is important, grammar not so much, except when there is something written with no periods at all. That's the only time it gets confusing. For me I'm comma happy. I'll put commas everywhere.
> 
> Spell checks save me a lot, but they don't work that well. Computers are as smart as the people using them, that's what I think. I posted something on here before and I spelled granite, I meant granted...I felt like an idiot when someone pointed it out to me. I actually never knew that granted was how it was spelled. Of course spell check failed me, and I looked dumb.


_I remember that post, and to be honest wanted to comment on it(maybe I did?), but someone else already had. It was a simple mistake...and considering that you generally have good posts, it was easy to overlook it as a simple misunderstanding of the word._

_Thank you smrobs for your synopsis. _


_I truely believe that a lot of people missed out on the point of why I posted this thread. I did not spend my time typing it out to have someone come back to bash me for being discriminating against a person who has a legitimate spelling problem....I do not have a problem with them at all!! Now, if you are using this as a crutch, then shame on you....not shame on me. _

_This thread was directed at the teens (and some adults) who have horrible spelling, and do nothing to fix it at all. It is not that hard to put some effort into trying to proofread what they post. Considering that we have some members who do speak english as a second language, but can spell and punctuate better then what those who speak english as a FIRST language....that is deeply saddening. _

_Teens are the future of *ALL* of our respective countries, no matter what language we speak, and if they are illiterate now, where does that leave the generations that follow? We are moving backwards instead of progressing. I fear that more teens are going to become adults and not going to be able to provide for themselves because they lack the LIFE SKILLS necessary (woohoo spelled it right!) to help themselves. They will end up reliant on others around them....going on welfare or having crappy dead end jobs because they have not put any effort into having proper spelling and grammar. That leaves me, and other adults who work hard for the money we make at our good, well-paying jobs, paying for them. _

_Maybe some of those who expressed that spelling does not matter will change their minds when it is their money going to pay for the illiterate...._


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Actually, folks, shouldn't you have red wavy underline if you misspelled something? Although as I think, it may be just Firefox feature and not IE. I feel too lazy to check it out now... :wink:


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

It is a firefox feature but only if you can figure out how to turn the **** thing on!!


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

It comes up automatically when I use occasionally firefox. I normally use chrome and it doesn't do it for most websites but every browser I've used has had the red squiggly lines under misspelled words at least on HF if nothing else. I don't know if that's just me though. 

Haven't ever seen the green grammar squiggles anywhere though.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Here's what my problem is. How can you tell when someone posts something on here and come to the conclusion that they simply don't give a rats @ss about how they spell? I have only come across one thread that I simply could not understand and passed it by. Not once have I noticed people using text talk. Even if there was I wasn't there to correct the spelling or grammar, I was there to read and possibly answer the thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

mbender said:


> Here's what my problem is. How can you tell when someone posts something on here and come to the conclusion that they simply don't give a rats @ss about how they spell? I have only come across one thread that I simply could not understand and passed it by. Not once have I noticed people using text talk. Even if there was I wasn't there to correct the spelling or grammar, I was there to read and possibly answer the thread.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_When every post a person makes lacks spelling, that is when I know they dont give a rats pa-tootey. It really isn't that hard to tell. _

_If you can't read what the post is because its jumbled, then how can you understand what they are truely trying to ask?_

_Also, just because I posted this thread here, doesn't mean it just pertains to the world of horse forum. Think of the big picture....not just what you see in front of you. How well do the kids in your sons class spell?_


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Safari has spell check as an option too. On the menu bar on the computer, not the browser, you go under Edit and it has a spelling and a grammar option that you can turn on and off. I would assume most browsers would be similar. 

mbender, in a lot of those cases, someone will mention the spelling or phrasing, and politely suggest that they check before posting so it can be understood and immediately get an "I don't care, get over it" response.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Velvet, don't talk anything about my child! You don't know me and you sure don't know my child! You don't know anything about his classmates and so you have NO RIGHT to mention it! I am VERY protective when it comes to my child so DON'T! As for you speculating on who doesn't care about the way they spell on a post, you admitted you didn't think faye was dyslexic. Don't judge a book by its cover! This is my major beef! I'm not saying that I don't care about this subject, I'm saying this forum is for us to communicate and relax and enjoy what our fellow horse people have to say! Now that this thread is started, you will have put everyone under added stress to make sure they please those who "can't stand improper grammar". That's fun!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Um, she didn't say a word about your child. She asked about kids in his class, not meaning the individual, just the age group.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

Um, I don't care, don't go into my personal life without my permission. What the hell does it matter to her how well his classmates spell. He's only in sixth grade. So that upsets me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

How bout you make a separate thread about that kid?

Edit to Add: More exactly, i went to sleep, woke up and found you still here raging about something completely different.

It's clear that you need to vent and let it out and that you're full of stuff that "needs to be heard". Great, do it. But it's getting ridiculous if someone actually comes and reads this whole thing.


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

What are you talking about?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

mbender said:


> Um, I don't care, don't go into my personal life without my permission. What the hell does it matter to her how well his classmates spell. He's only in sixth grade. So that upsets me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good Lord chill out. You were the one that told us in the first place that he has ADHD..if that's your "personal life" why did you tell us?? His classmates have nothing to do with your son so get over yourself.


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## SparksFly (Nov 20, 2010)

I prefer to read posts where the person is posting correctly, but I'm not going to be a prude and tell people that they look unintelligent if they do not.

I just don't understand why it matters, really? If you can't read the post, move on.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Honestly I am ok with this last statement from a purely selfish point of view.

More job vacancies for me.

The world does not resume to forums. And a book does get judged by its covers many times. Job interviews and CV's are some of those places.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

mbender said:


> Velvet, don't talk anything about my child! You don't know me and you sure don't know my child! You don't know anything about his classmates and so you have NO RIGHT to mention it! I am VERY protective when it comes to my child so DON'T! As for you speculating on who doesn't care about the way they spell on a post, you admitted you didn't think faye was dyslexic. Don't judge a book by its cover! This is my major beef! I'm not saying that I don't care about this subject, I'm saying this forum is for us to communicate and relax and enjoy what our fellow horse people have to say! Now that this thread is started, you will have put everyone under added stress to make sure they please those who "can't stand improper grammar". That's fun!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





mbender said:


> Um, I don't care, don't go into my personal life without my permission. What the hell does it matter to her how well his classmates spell. He's only in sixth grade. So that upsets me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Ugh. So this response is most likely going to come across rude because it seems like I cannot make a point without being very direct. That being said, it isnt meant to be rude....just VERY direct._

_I did not ask anything about your child. I asked about his classmates. Not your personal life. Not your son...not even about your kids. Even in 6th grade, they should have a very good grasp of spelling. Not grammar so much, but definitely spelling. I do not know anything about him or his classmates, which is why I asked do you know how well they spell? So, how well do they spell? Can they spell the words that they should be using in the 6th grade?_

_Right now you are judging me by the words that I type, so you are being hypocritical._

_The intention WAS to make everyone more aware of their spelling and grammar....but at the same time making it clear that spelling/grammatical errors do happen, and it isn't the end of the world. I miss punctuations ALL the time, and I know that, but try to make sure I correct it. Just like I proofread everything and go back to correct it. _

_I dont go into every single thread and go...Oh my Gosh...you misspelled this, this, this and this....oh and dont forget that you missed those commas and apostraphes!! I read the thread and then post....unless I cannot read someones thread/post because it is so full of mistakes that I literally can't read it...I go on to something else._

_You are making this into something more then what it is._


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## SparksFly (Nov 20, 2010)

Good lord you people could fight with a brick wall.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

SparksFly said:


> Good lord you people could fight with a brick wall.


Well, when in Rome...


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

SparksFly said:


> Good lord you people could fight with a brick wall.


:lol::lol:


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

inaclick said:


> Well, when in Rome...


:lol: hehe


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

It also always amazes me that people turn a generalization into "that HAS to be about me, so now I'm going to be defensive" and lose my temper.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Jesus Christ, mbender, take a chill pill. 

Velvet, at least you tried. I find it amusing that very few people that this thread was more or less directed it are responding. The majority of the posters in this thread never have hard to understand posts.

As was said before, this thread was directed to the lazy folks. The ones that apparently don't care if they come across as a middle school drop out who will only ever be able to work at McDonald's. It's called self respect people. If you don't respect yourself, you can't expect anyone else to respect you either.

Another point that needs to be made, is that NO ONE goes around and edits everyone's posts. Maybe on occasion, a poster will do an edit, but I don't see it all that often. So there is no need to worry that people should fear posting because the Grammar Police and Spelling Nazis are going to beat them about the head for it. Also, the hard to understand posts are usually ignored. Therefore, they don't get responses, editing ones or otherwise.

Now everyone. Take a deep breath. Bunched panties are very uncomfortable.


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> Jesus Christ, mbender, take a chill pill.
> 
> Velvet, at least you tried. I find it amusing that very few people that this thread was more or less directed it are responding. The majority of the posters in this thread never have hard to understand posts.
> 
> ...


I agree. And some people take things waaaay to personal.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Regan7312 said:


> I agree. And some people take things waaaay to personal.


Definitely. I can't imagine how much life would suck if I made a habit of getting so worked up over a thread online made by a girl I don't know, and will likely never meet. I have too much of a life to be concerned about what the big ol' meanies think. =P


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## mbender (Jul 22, 2009)

You started this thread with the intent on making a point! I believe you accomplished that. And as far as you commenting on my childs classmates or questioning it makes it personal. I'm sorry for getting bent out of shape but when you become a mother this is your basic instinct. Mine anyway! I am tired of this subject and hope that those that read, will get the message. I am not sore at anyone of you but I have a deep passion for people who have a handicap, or are picked on and I will fight to protect that. Try to remember that when you post something, that its the way you come across to others that will dictate a positive or negative outcome. Thanks for the workout Velvet! I rest my case! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

:lol:si hws it gong evrybdy, just kidding


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Fine, thank you :lol:


Speaking of grammar and spelling I believe Tamma is our silent hero of this thread.
I heard that Finnish is one of the most complicated and hard to master languages of the world. Close around Japanese.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

mbender said:


> I am not sore at anyone of you but I have a deep passion for people who have a handicap, or are picked on and I will fight to protect that. Try to remember that when you post something, that its the way you come across to others that will dictate a positive or negative outcome. Thanks for the workout Velvet! I rest my case!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Again....I am not picking on those with LEGITIMATE learning disabilities. _

_I am certain that I was clear and concise in all my posts that I was not picking on any certain one person or people with a disability. My concern was for those who do not care about their spelling and grammar._

_Can we please get back to the original topic of "the importance of spelling and grammar"?_

_I think Lone had the best example of "Lets eat Grandpa!" and "Lets eat, Grandpa!"._


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

inaclick said:


> Fine, thank you :lol:
> 
> 
> Speaking of grammar and spelling I believe Tamma is our silent hero of this thread.
> I heard that Finnish is one of the most complicated and hard to master languages of the world. Close around Japanese.


Anyone who has the patience to learn a language that intricate and difficult is a hero to me. I could barely learn Spanish lol :lol:


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Regan7312 said:


> Anyone who has the patience to learn a language that intricate and difficult is a hero to me. I could barely learn Spanish lol :lol:


I had to quit French! I couldn't learn it  The only phrase I learned was J'mepelle Charles, and I don't even know if I spelled that right


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

Katesrider011 said:


> I had to quit French! I couldn't learn it  The only phrase I learned was J'mepelle Charles, and I don't even know if I spelled that right


Hahah some of us just aren't cut out for a second language!


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

I manage to babble some French enough to find out where a toilet is, to ask for lunch and to explain that I got lost. If I dig deeper I might actually manage to sustain a decent but very poor conversation.

Written French however....mon Dieu!


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

Katesrider011 said:


> I had to quit French! I couldn't learn it  The only phrase I learned was J'mepelle Charles, and I don't even know if I spelled that right


_Je m'apelle Charles. :wink:_


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

VelvetsAB said:


> _Je m'apelle Charles. :wink:_


My name is Charles? lol..just a guess


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

At least you guys had the options for a decent second language. The only foreign language class taught at my school was Spanish. The bad part? We have no one within about 6000 miles that speaks Spanish. We have Mexicans here and basically the entire language is different. We even had a foreign exchange student who's mother was genuinely Spanish and he failed the class, so what does that tell you about the legitimacy of what we were being taught? LOL.

Anyway, I think one of my favorite things here is to open a thread from a brand new poster to be greeted by a well written, easily understandable explanation of the issue that they are having and asking for help about.

I do agree with Ina though. More job openings for me and a good chance for a better position with pretty much any job I take. At my last job, I worked security in a prison. I ended up working in a very specialized and elite area simply because I was able to spell and punctuate properly. I typed most of the reports for my supervisors and did all their proofreading for them on reports that went to their supervisors. There were tons of people working at the unit that I worked at and the job that I did was wanted by quite a few of them. I was proud that I was asked to work there after only 6 months with the company. The sad thing was when an incident would happen (fight, assault, drunk offender, offender death, etc), then everyone involved had to write a detailed statement about what they saw and did. Those statements were all placed in the state records and kept for a certain amount of time just in case there happened to be a court case come out of it. Reading some of the statements that I did, it was a bit of an embarrassment to work at the same job as some of those people. Grown adults that had the writing capability of a 2nd or 3rd grader......on a good day. I simply cannot imagine how a judge would look upon someone like that when they were testifying in a courtroom and copies of their statement was given to all parties involved, including the defense.

Oh, and as for spell checker, I have Internet Explorer and there is a program called ieSpell (or something similar) that I downloaded and checks everything that I have typed on a given page.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Regan7312 said:


> My name is Charles? lol..just a guess


Yes that's correct. That was my French name.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

French speaking I am fluent in as I have spoken french since I was tiny. I can read french well enough to do an A level in it however I only got a B overall as my spelling and punctuation is CRAP.
I got very high marks on the speaking and the listening/comprehension test, but the essay writing was horrific. That said the examiner who did my verbal test did comment that there were a few too many colloqrialisms (sp?) in my spoken french (I believe that means she didn't understand all of them! lol!)


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

smrobs said:


> I do agree with Ina though. More job openings for me and a good chance for a better position with pretty much any job I take. At my last job, I worked security in a prison.* I ended up working in a very specialized and elite area simply because I was able to spell and punctuate properly*. I typed most of the reports for my supervisors and did all their proofreading for them on reports that went to their supervisors. There were tons of people working at the unit that I worked at and the job that I did was wanted by quite a few of them. I was proud that I was asked to work there after only 6 months with the company. The sad thing was when an incident would happen (fight, assault, drunk offender, offender death, etc), then everyone involved had to write a detailed statement about what they saw and did. Those statements were all placed in the state records and kept for a certain amount of time just in case there happened to be a court case come out of it. Reading some of the statements that I did, it was a bit of an embarrassment to work at the same job as some of those people. Grown adults that had the writing capability of a 2nd or 3rd grader......on a good day. I simply cannot imagine how a judge would look upon someone like that when they were testifying in a courtroom and copies of their statement was given to all parties involved, including the defense.


_Proof that spelling and grammar are important outside of school, and that someone got the job because they were able to do it._


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

VelvetsAB said:


> _Spelling is an important life skill for everyone to learn. Without having a good spelling comprehension, you can miss out on things such as job opportunities and partners. Spelling and grammar are the building blocks of having a clear and concise conversation. They are there so that you can communicate with ease. Although you cannot see spelling or grammar while you are speaking, how would you know where to take a pause when needed? Spelling and grammar do go hand in hand you see, for without them, you would just end up babbling ceaselessly, with no pauses or breaks. When I see someone who doesn’t take spelling seriously, I have a hard time taking them seriously. The person who has taken the time and effort to make sure that they have spelled their words properly, and that has formulated a solid question/answer is much more likely to get a well thought out answer or reply back. _
> 
> _Even though we live in an age of spell checkers and grammar checkers, it is still necessary to be able to know how to proofread what you have written so that you, yourself, can see if you have worded a phrase improperly, or in a way that is not going to come across the way that you intended too. _
> 
> ...


 
Wow what a smack in the face:shock:. I dont mean to make typos, its just that I am trying to type so fast that I dont realise what I am typing.:wink:As you said. And I do realise that you mean lazy typers in this post.
But everyone makes mistakes. I didn't think that anyone really cared about the spelling and grammar mistakes on here, unless they were BIG mistakes, then that would annoy me, but I am sure that people don't mean to type errors, no one is perfect and not EVERYONE can type as accurately as you. What if someone is dyslexic? What if someone has a hard time spelling? It is not that they are too lazy, they just don't realise. But for one thing, I can't stand text speak or people that write *Yer* instead of yeah. It just makes you sound in-intelligent (I dont't know how to spell it, sorry but it is not my fault) 
But I will say it again, everyone and I mean EVERYONE makes mistakes, even you.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

inaclick said:


> Fine, thank you :lol:
> 
> 
> Speaking of grammar and spelling I believe Tamma is our silent hero of this thread.
> I heard that Finnish is one of the most complicated and hard to master languages of the world. Close around Japanese.


I think my latest post was perhaps a bit incoherent... So Finnish is my 1st language so it isn't that hard to me. I still mainly (mentally) neglected my English lessons back in school times so even I've of course gotten my basics there, my English skills are mainly coming from that forum and are therefore in written form. So spelling when _writing_ English isn't that hard for me :lol:. I bet you wouldn't still understand me if I spoke it.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Tamma, slightly off-topic but you can practice spoken languages here:

Language Learning with Livemocha | Learn a Language Online - Free!

I started learning German, I admit I kinda dumped the progress but I'll get back to it.

You need a microphone though.


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## TaMMa89 (Apr 12, 2008)

Thank you for the link, Ina. I'll keep it in my mind (or find that thread :wink if I need it some day.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

It honestly worries me the amount of people these days who seem to have little to no regard for the light in which their communication skills (or lack of) present them. I am well aware that I make mistakes while writing, however if I see them I do my best to correct them. 

If I take the time to write something out I like to make sure that it is as clearly written as possible. I want someone to read it and be able to form an intelligent response to it. That can only happen if they have something to work with.

Like everyone else, I hold no grudges against those who have a legitimate learning disorder. I also don't believe that it should be an excuse to become lazy about communication. In fact, should it not be a reason to work harder? To overcome the difficulties you are faced with?

The unfortunate thing is that it is not just a problem in the written word anymore. I can not even count the amount of people who have word-vomited at me, verbally, that have left me shaking my head. It seems that there are a large number of people these days who think that language is just a subject at school and not an important pillar of their life.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

PintoTess said:


> Wow what a smack in the face:shock:. I dont mean to make typos, its just that I am trying to type so fast that I dont realise what I am typing.:wink:As you said. And I do realise that you mean lazy typers in this post.
> But everyone makes mistakes. I didn't think that anyone really cared about the spelling and grammar mistakes on here, unless they were BIG mistakes, then that would annoy me, but I am sure that people don't mean to type errors, no one is perfect and not EVERYONE can type as accurately as you. What if someone is dyslexic? What if someone has a hard time spelling? It is not that they are too lazy, they just don't realise. But for one thing, I can't stand text speak or people that write *Yer* instead of yeah. It just makes you sound in-intelligent (I dont't know how to spell it, sorry but it is not my fault)
> But I will say it again, everyone and I mean EVERYONE makes mistakes, even you.


_Please read the WHOLE thread._

_I have said honest spelling mistakes are acceptable and that even I make spelling mistakes. Everyone makes them. (Necessary is my example...I always want to spell it neccessary. Definitely is in my head as definately and that is also how I spell it almost all the time). I am not saying everyone must be perfect in their spelling. _

_There is a difference between someone making a spellling error or a typo, and someone who just doesn't care. I can overlook spelling mistakes and typos, but when you blatently (sp?) have a disregard for how your messages come across....then I have an issue._

_There were two people (that stand out to me) who said they are dyslexic and commented on this thread. Before, I would have never known that they are dyslexic because they make an *effort* to not have spelling mistakes. I have nothing against people who have a *legitimate* reason for having problems. But these two are also not using dyslexia as a crutch for having horrible problems either. _

_If you had read the whole thread, you would have seen this._



HowClever said:


> Like everyone else, I hold no grudges against those who have a legitimate learning disorder. I also don't believe that it should be an excuse to become lazy about communication. In fact, should it not be a reason to work harder? To overcome the difficulties you are faced with?
> 
> The unfortunate thing is that it is not just a problem in the written word anymore. I can not even count the amount of people who have word-vomited at me, verbally, that have left me shaking my head. It seems that there are a large number of people these days who think that language is just a subject at school and not an important pillar of their life.


_Exactly! _


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## PintoTess (Aug 18, 2010)

VelvetsAB said:


> _Please read the WHOLE thread._
> 
> _I have said honest spelling mistakes are acceptable and that even I make spelling mistakes. Everyone makes them. (Necessary is my example...I always want to spell it neccessary. Definitely is in my head as definately and that is also how I spell it almost all the time). I am not saying everyone must be perfect in their spelling. _
> 
> ...


Ok welll I wasn't having a go at you for stating your point. I make speiiling errors on this but at school, it is very different. I do try to not make errors. See what I am writing now probably have 1000 spelling errors and I did try to get it right.


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## VelvetsAB (Aug 11, 2010)

PintoTess said:


> Ok welll I wasn't having a go at you for stating your point. I make speiiling errors on this but at school, it is very different. I do try to not make errors. See what I am writing now probably have 1000 spelling errors and I did try to get it right.


_I was just trying to make sure you hadn't missed important information that was said earlier on in the thread._

_How is writing on a forum any different then spelling at school? Should they not get the same amount of effort?_

_This is exactly what I am talking about....spelling is just as important in school as it is here, at work, in emails and pretty much any other form of written communication._


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Basically, you're telling us that you make an effort in school for fear of punishment or seeking a reward but you don't care on forums and others because nobody will give you a mark here.

Otherwise I can't see why would school be the only place where you give a crap about what kind of person people see you as.

Fine. Well at least i learned something new from this thread. I thought people pay attention to how they look, wash, eat, talk, spell *for themselves*

Turns out quite a large chunk just do it because they're forced to, in one way or another. By marks in school for example.

Well that's lame but thankfully that's not the world I live in. Enjoy living yours.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Ina.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Hashcha, ona ona.

You can't grammar fix that, that's why I love to type in another tongue.


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

Cowgirl101 said:


> Hashcha, ona ona.
> 
> You can't grammar fix that, that's why I love to type in another tongue.


what???


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Regan7312 said:


> what???


I type in other tongue so no one can know what I'm saying. So you don't know if there are grammar problems.


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

Cowgirl101 said:


> I type in other tongue so no one can know what I'm saying. So you don't know if there are grammar problems.


Ok...why don't you want anyone to know what you are saying?? Why do you want people to think that you might have grammer problems..that does not make much sense


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Regan7312 said:


> Ok...why don't you want anyone to know what you are saying?? Why do you want people to think that you might have grammer problems..that does not make much sense


I don't know people to think I have grammar problems. I just have typos. 
But it's fun using another tongue, makes them guess.


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## Regan7312 (Jul 5, 2010)

Cowgirl101 said:


> I don't know people to think I have grammar problems. I just have typos.
> But it's fun using another tongue, makes them guess.


Lol...ok..

Are you from the USA or no?


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Regan7312 said:


> Lol...ok..
> 
> Are you from the USA or no?


I'm from North America.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Cowgirl101 said:


> I'm from North America.


 Is that your cute little way of saying your from the french speaking part of Canada or are you from Mexico? If you are trying to say that English is your first language I'm going to call Bull Feces.


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

Cowgirl101 said:


> I'm from North America.


...So you're from Canada, USA, and Mexico?


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I find it beyond amusing that Cowgirl claims she can speak in another language and yet all she's done is post one to three words. Y'know, if that constitutes another language, I can speak about 40!

She's "speaking" in Choctaw, which means she's from Native American descent somewhere in the USA (the people originate in the South). Absolutely ZERO reason why you can't speak decent English as well.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> I find it beyond amusing that Cowgirl claims she can speak in another language and yet all she's done is post one to three words. Y'know, if that constitutes another language, I can speak about 40!
> 
> She's "speaking" in Choctaw, which means she's from Native American descent somewhere in the USA (the people originate in the South). Absolutely ZERO reason why you can't speak decent English as well.


Well that was harsh. 
If you knew what I said, then you knew why it was only three words.
How do you know it's choctaw, it could be blackfootsue or any other native language. 
Why you want my location? (Stalker XD) Kidding.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Cowgirl101 said:


> Well that was harsh.
> If you knew what I said, then you knew why it was only three words.
> How do you know it's choctaw, it could be blackfootsue or any other native language.
> Why you want my location? (Stalker XD) Kidding.


Irregardless, it's still a Native American language and still completely unlikely that in the 21st century you were raised with English as a second language to the point where you have the same hindrance as someone like Tamma89 who resides in a country where English is assuredly NOT the first language. Being born and raised in the USA, there is little reason why your English is worse then someone from a foreign country.

I hate excuses, that's all. You try to act so "secretive" and clever like you live at the North Pole and you only know English from the occasional musher coming through. It's a colossal farce, and I would lay serious doubt that you know ANY language but English fluently.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Irregardless, it's still a Native American language and still completely unlikely that in the 21st century you were raised with English as a second language to the point where you have the same hindrance as someone like Tamma89 who resides in a country where English is assuredly NOT the first language. Being born and raised in the USA, there is little reason why your English is worse then someone from a foreign country.
> 
> I hate excuses, that's all. You try to act so "secretive" and clever like you live at the North Pole and you only know English from the occasional musher coming through. It's a colossal farce, and I would lay serious doubt that you know ANY language but English fluently.


You don't even know my first tongue. Well I hate rude people... I live in North America. You want my state, my town? To bad.

I can speak english, Native america, some french and learning Hebrew and I know sign language. So get your facts straight before judging 

If your replying to me, then you can read my post. So therefore my posting is readable. Not perfect but readable. Even your it's perfect.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Wow. That was an interesting read. 

I see this from both sides of the fence. 

My brother is a horrendous speller and typer. For years both my father and him have used all caps when typing. Sheer laziness on their part. However, they did stop when I explained that they were basically yelling at everyone! :lol: Back on my brother's spelling issue. He's had this problem his entire life, he iswell read, and has IQ tested on the genius scale, but he has a problem with spelling. Unlike many of the bad spellers on this forum (and others) he makes a real effort to spell correctly. He uses spell checker or asks me or someone else for help if they're available. I'm sure some of you (us) would see a post from him and mentally cringe. In his defense many of his spelling errors are because he spells phonetically. But as I said before he makes an effort to make himself understood. He isn't proud of his bad spelling and doesn't think that someone is being "mean" if they call him on it. He's embarrassed, but realizes that there is a valid point in what they are saying. 

On the other hand I find it painful to read the enormous paragraphs with NO punctuation or capitalizations. The words just swim in front of my eyes and it literally gives me a headache. More than once I've wanted to help, but have been unable to decipher what the problem is even after spending 10 minutes trying to read a post. Does that make me lazy? I guess so by some people's definition. But at least I TRY. 

Faye, I found it interesting that I have many of your early signs of dsylexia (sp? :lol. The only major trouble I've ever had is with numbers though. 5's and 7's are hell for me. I'll hear 5 and write 7. I have problems with other numbers too, but those are the worst. I'm a decent speller, but need to go back and re-read otherwise I will have errors. I'm queen of the backspace! Grammar is more difficult for me. It shouldn't be with how much I read, unfortunately it doesn't quite seem to sink in. But I do make a real effort to be understood.

ETA - You know I just learned to spell surprise this year? I always thought it was suprise... :lol:


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Wow. That was an interesting read.
> 
> I see this from both sides of the fence.
> 
> ...


In Firth grade my IQ was 125, I'm in high school now, so it's much higher.

Some people have.. What's when they get Bs and Ds mix up. They also get get (,.) mix up too. 
I try, with my grammar. Yeah it's not perfect but no one is perfect.


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## MN Tigerstripes (Feb 20, 2009)

Having a problem isn't the issue Cowgirl. It's the not caring part that's the problem. 

My brother sucks at spelling, but he makes an effort and it is noticable in his posts on the forums he's on. He actually spells worse in "real life" than in public. 

Honestly, you oftentimes come off as reveling in your bad grammar and spelling. Almost like you're rubbing people's noses in it. So you're either a troll that gets off on riling people up OR you're a teenager who gets off on the same thing. Of course you could just have some sort of "disorder" and your way of dealing with it is to push other people's buttons instead of being open and honest about it. I don't know which it is...


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

MN Tigerstripes said:


> Having a problem isn't the issue Cowgirl. It's the not caring part that's the problem.
> 
> My brother sucks at spelling, but he makes an effort and it is noticable in his posts on the forums he's on. He actually spells worse in "real life" than in public.
> 
> Honestly, you oftentimes come off as reveling in your bad grammar and spelling. Almost like you're rubbing people's noses in it. So you're either a troll that gets off on riling people up OR you're a teenager who gets off on the same thing. Of course you could just have some sort of "disorder" and your way of dealing with it is to push other people's buttons instead of being open and honest about it. I don't know which it is...


I don't see what that has to do with grammar and spelling.


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## lacyloo (Jul 1, 2008)

> In Firth grade my IQ was 125...


:-| I beg to differ


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## Katesrider011 (Oct 29, 2010)

My IQ is 500 yall


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

lacyloo said:


> :-| I beg to differ


Well it's a long story. I was homeschool then went to school, since I was a homeschooler, then randomly put me back a year. No reason, I pass the task test but since homeschool was different from what they teach you in school. 
So really I was in sixth grade and my IQ was 125. 
More sense?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

Cowgirl101 said:


> Well it's a long story. I was homeschool then went to school, since I was a homeschooler, then randomly put me back a year. No reason, I pass the task test but since homeschool was different from what they teach you in school.
> So really I was in sixth grade and my IQ was 125.
> More sense?


Personaly I can see why they did. Oh and IQ doesnt change just because you get older, IQ tests are not based on learning they are based on indicators of intellegence, so puzzles, shapes, pictures, patterns etc. So If you did an age appropriate and accurate test then your IQ will be the same throughout your life.



MacabreMikolaj said:


> Irregardless, it's still a Native American language and still completely unlikely that in the 21st century you were raised with English as a second language to the point where you have the same hindrance as someone like Tamma89 who resides in a country where English is assuredly NOT the first language. Being born and raised in the USA, there is little reason why your English is worse then someone from a foreign country.


Just going to play devils advocate here: I live in deepest darkest wales, despite wales having been ruled by England since the early 11th century, English being the dominant language and less then 100 years ago speaking welsh was illegal there are still villages and schools that only speak welsh, they do not teach English at all.

Also bare in mind that even in western countrys there is still a quite high illiteracy rate and whilst people do learn as adults it is not the same as learning as a child which means that attaining the same standard is extremely difficult. My mum employs a few people who cannot read or write at all because they were never taught

Again I'll just say that i am playing Devils advocate and not condoning lieing at all if she is!


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

On a completly unrelated note I learnt a new word today which I shall endevour to use at every opportunity! I even managed to spell it correctly first time when I looked it up on google!

so my New word of the day is - *Rapacious* meaning greedy or grasping! 

And now I believe I should toddle off to bed concidering it is 3.30am here!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

*faye *- I actually fully agree with you, I think the reason I am dubious is because she obviously lives in the USA. If she's speaking Native languages, then she was obviously born there and if she has a computer then she obviously is not from some tribe that still lives in the woods and has no contact with society. I don't believe for a cotton pickin second there is a Native teenager in North America that doesn't learn English right from birth, especially one with access to such things as a computer.

If you're BORN in America, especially in the last couple decades, it's pretty much a given that you speak fluent English as a first language. There are obviously exceptions, but as a general rule, kids born in America learn to speak English as a first language even with immigrant parents who can barely speak a word of it.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> *faye *- I actually fully agree with you, I think the reason I am dubious is because she obviously lives in the USA. If she's speaking Native languages, then she was obviously born there and if she has a computer then she obviously is not from some tribe that still lives in the woods and has no contact with society. I don't believe for a cotton pickin second there is a Native teenager in North America that doesn't learn English right from birth, especially one with access to such things as a computer.
> 
> If you're BORN in America, especially in the last couple decades, it's pretty much a given that you speak fluent English as a first language. There are obviously exceptions, but as a general rule, kids born in America learn to speak English as a first language even with immigrant parents who can barely speak a word of it.


Sorry but I disagree it is very much assumed that if you are born in the UK you speak English from birth and in wales welsh as a second language (3rd for me). However I do know Teenagers who only speak welsh, who use the internet regularly. Most of the villages that only speak welsh have internet access (normaly dial up) and ready access to music etc, however Welsh language is an option on most websites like google or facebook! The BBC does a welsh version, there is welsh language radio stations, of course the welsh also have thier own music etc.
Most of the teenagers I know have very little desire to learn english as they are happy within thier community. If you go to the local agricultural shows then all announcements are made in welsh only!


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> *faye *- I actually fully agree with you, I think the reason I am dubious is because she obviously lives in the USA. If she's speaking Native languages, then she was obviously born there and if she has a computer then she obviously is not from some tribe that still lives in the woods and has no contact with society. I don't believe for a cotton pickin second there is a Native teenager in North America that doesn't learn English right from birth, especially one with access to such things as a computer.
> 
> If you're BORN in America, especially in the last couple decades, it's pretty much a given that you speak fluent English as a first language. There are obviously exceptions, but as a general rule, kids born in America learn to speak English as a first language even with immigrant parents who can barely speak a word of it.


I agree with faye.
Does it kill you to ask me questions, before pointing and judging?


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Faye, I can see your point, but the US isn't Wales. I live very close to several tribal lands, and at least here, most of them don't speak anything but English. At least in the last few generations. The only people who don't are the people who immigrated here.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I just wanted to point out that it is Choctaw, NOT Blackfeet. If you're going to speak a native language, understand the culture. It would be Sioux, not sue people. You have claimed to be Native American in past posts and so you should know this already. 

If youre going to post in different languages just because you think people don't understand you, please at least do so in a less frivolous manner.


That is what this thread is about and why I pointed it out. Claiming to speak the language and be of the people (which you very well may be) you should at least be able to call them the correct name. Posting the same phrases over and over prove nothing. 

I can speak french, spanish, and some ASL. I still use correct spelling and grammar though


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Well there a bunch of native tongue. Choctaw, blackfoot, and much more.
Since they my grammar is off, they are rude to me. Is that fair?


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

This thread is getting quite entertaining.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Yes, there are. And they are not interchangeable. 

You get the treatment of you do because of how you present yourself. 

We HAVE asked you what your native tongue is. What language you are most comfortable speaking. But I have tutored ESL for about 3 years now, and most of my students are easier to understand than some of the posts you read. 

We have asked politely for you to edit in the past or at least admit you are not an english speaker so that we at least can give you that but you just don't show any effort or concern.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Yes, there are. And they are not interchangeable.
> 
> You get the treatment of you do because of how you present yourself.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I honestly don't know how to edit a post. 
Your a teacher?
I truly haven't see someone ask me what native tongue I speak. They just point and think.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Okay, well I'm asking. What is your native tongue -- What do you speak the most comfortably and fluently out of all of these languages you speak?

You can edit your post in I think 10 minutes. In the bottom right hand of your post there will be a green button that says "edit" 

I tutor ESL at my college and am going to be getting my TESL certification once I have the extra time.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> Okay, well I'm asking. What is your native tongue -- What do you speak the most comfortably and fluently out of all of these languages you speak?
> 
> You can edit your post in I think 10 minutes. In the bottom right hand of your post there will be a green button that says "edit"
> 
> I tutor ESL at my college and am going to be getting my TESL certification once I have the extra time.


Oh.. Something the edit button its not there.. So there fore I can't edit.

Choctaw and sign language. But it's like impossible for SL on the computer. I know a few word in blackfoot. 
Also sorry for the out busted, haha PMSing moment.
Can't a have a re-start?


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

the Edit button dissapears after 10 mins.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

So you are fluent in Choctaw and also fluent in ASL? but not as comfortable speaking/writing/etc English. 

This is what people have been trying to find out. If you are just ignoring the typos, or dont understand that they are wrong.

The responses you have posted read as if you don't care if they are barely legible or not which maybe is a pride thing. Never ever be nervous or hesitant to admit that you don't know something or made a mistake. That will count huge with people both on and off line. 

When people ask about the 'north america' thing, that is because they are asking what COUNTRY you live in, not the CONTINENT. 

Countries of North America are the USA, Mexico, or Canada. Continents are things like Asia, Europe, South America, etc. 

They arent asking for your city or state but they are asking to try and understand if you are a english as a second language speaker as that explains some things.


One thing you can do is type up your entire reply, then read it out loud to yourself and see if it makes sense before you hit the submit button.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

faye said:


> the Edit button dissapears after 10 mins.


Oh thanks. 

Dove, I see it as it's none of there business, what country I live in. 
You don't have to type in "caps." I can read...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

That's fine and you don't have to tell anyone. I'm explaining why people are asking because generally people will be more lenient if you admit that you have troubles with English/are foreign/whatever where right now people assume that you just don't care if people have to re-read posts a few times or not. 

The post you just wrote though (number 208) was perfectly legible even with an error. 

I typed in caps because my shortcut keys for italicizing weren't working. I normally would have italicized. I never said you couldn't read. Caps in that instance are used for emphasis. 

I'm just trying to explain so that you don't have to feel so defensive and picked on which as you can tell many people are giving up on.


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## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm sorry, Cowgirl, but you come across as though you are simply looking for a fight. Spastic_Dove is actually looking out for you, being very polite and pointing you in the right direction so you will have a pleasant experience on this forum and you continue to throw it in her face. 

You will not last long here with the attitude you currently have.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> That's fine and you don't have to tell anyone. I'm explaining why people are asking because generally people will be more lenient if you admit that you have troubles with English/are foreign/whatever where right now people assume that you just don't care if people have to re-read posts a few times or not.
> 
> The post you just wrote though (number 208) was perfectly legible even with an error.
> 
> ...


Oh okay.
Thanks, Dove.
But I'm clearing not wanted here, though I'm not leaving.
I'm not wanted.
I get that enough in real life... Though I guess life just a.... 
I'm leaving soon, for the day.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

It is never too late to turn yourself around. I just thought I would throw that out there so that if you do decide to continue posting, you can enjoy the responses, rather than get into stupid arguments every time you post. 

Take my advice or leave it, that's up to you.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

Spastic_Dove said:


> It is never too late to turn yourself around. I just thought I would throw that out there so that if you do decide to continue posting, you can enjoy the responses, rather than get into stupid arguments every time you post.
> 
> Take my advice or leave it, that's up to you.


I already posted, "I want a re-start?" 
I didn't start with one, though.


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## inaclick (Jun 6, 2010)

Cowgirl101 said:


> Oh okay.
> 
> I get that enough in real life... Though I guess life just a....
> I'm leaving soon, for the day.



Well they say nobody is a prophet in their own country.

Seriously though, nobody has anything against you. Just against a certain attitude, such as:

- nonconstructive 
- drama / attention seeking
- self-pity
- aggressive and impolite

I'm not saying that attitude represents you and I am sure you can be more than capable of being a nice person.
However, there's a saying in my own country, not sure if you guys have it.

"If a man tells you you're drunk, ignore him. If two men tell you you're drunk, ignore them. If three men tell you you're drunk, think about it.
If four men tell you you're drunk, go to sleep"
:wink:


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

In itty bitty tiny letters 

You can restart with your own actions. Just go on from now and try and be conscious of how you present yourself for awhile and I think you'll find that MOST people on here are very helpful and supportive if they know that you are open to critique and suggestions and not going to pick a fight at every chance. 

Getting on the defensive, being argumentative or dodging questions are all some things that make people go to the conclusion of troll. So go ahead and prove us all wrong. 

I'm off for the night, but good luck.


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## Cowgirl101 (Oct 12, 2010)

inaclick said:


> Well they say nobody is a prophet in their own country.
> 
> Seriously though, nobody has anything against you. Just against a certain attitude, such as:
> 
> ...


I hate pity, to be honest. No pity parties here. Sure I have low self stream but a lot of people do.
I'm not the only impolite, drama person here. No saying names, but I see others are too.
I would love a new start. 

New start!
I'm off for the day.


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

Hi everyone,

I've closed this thread since I think the substantive discussion regarding the merits of proper spelling and grammar came to an end pages ago, and a certain... intervention (for lack of a better word) seems to have left off on a constructive note. 

This point was reiterated a number of times in this thread by various members, but I think it bears repeating that those championing proper spelling and grammar were not necessarily suggesting that posts be perfect or anywhere near it. Rather, if I understood correctly, members were referring to posts evidencing a near total lack of regard for communicating clearly.

To be sure, the Horse Forum is an International community, and members here do not discriminate against anyone who speaks English as a second language, has a disability, etc. If you observe anyone giving anyone else a hard time about such things, please report their post.

If your posts are hard to understand merely because you don't care enough to ensure otherwise, however, that is another story, and below are a few suggestions.

Capturing the "low hanging fruit" (the easiest issues to resolve), can be as simple as taking a few seconds to look over what you've written before submitting it. This can mean the difference between telling others that you're going to the _bar _to work with your _hose_, vs. going to the barn to work with your horse, and can mean a world of difference in the way you are perceived.

Some free web browsers such as Firefox have a built in spell check which underlines misspelled words in red as you type them. You can find it here, Mozilla Download. Granted, if you type a legitimate word it won't know if you meant to type another, but it wll privent you frm mipselling words altoogether and suggest proper spellings when you right click the underlined words.









If others regularly have trouble understanding your posts, and if you are able to ensure that your posts are reasonably intelligible by taking a moment to proof read them before submitting them and using a browser with an integrated spell check, we ask that you do so as a courtesy to everyone who comes here looking for intelligent horse related discussion, and, ultimately, to yourself.


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