# GRRRR! MY HORSE..........(rant/cry for help)



## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

HE ALSO PUFFS HIS BELLY OUT WHEN I TIGHTEN THE GIRTH!!!! What do I do????


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## Jillyann (Mar 31, 2009)

Get a trainer!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Has he been retrained? If not, pulling back on the reins for a race horse means you want them to go _faster_. That's why it's so very important for an ex-racer to be retrained once they come off the track.

Why are you using double reins since you're only trail riding? Is there any particular _reason_ you're using a mullen mouth and a flash noseband? Unless you're showing, there's no real reason for you to use such equipment.

When was the last time you had his teeth checked? Besides the mullen being rather severe, his chewing may be because his teeth need to be floated.

As far as the pawing, it probably means he's still full of beans and wants to go. Sounds like he needs more exercise than you're giving him.

Many horses do the belly blow up when they're being girthed. It's a learned behaviour, and not likely something you can unteach him. What I've found works best is to get the horse girthed, let them relax, and then tighten more by degrees. 

Lungeing will often get them to relax, and you can tighten the girth then.

You sound relatively inexperienced. That's not a bad thing, because none of us started out in horses knowing anything. It just appears that you don't really have a clue why your horse is giving you trouble.

It does appear that your horse is overbitted, may need his teeth done, possibly needs more training, and might be a tad spoiled. 

If you're not already working with a trainer for yourself, I'd suggest that too. You both could probably use the help of a good professional.


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## Citrus (Feb 26, 2010)

I would recommend getting his teeth floated.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

A prof. trainer suggested the pelham to relax the jaw and so far it has worked well for him as the snaffle pulls his head up and hollows his back. The flash is to keep his mouth shut. His teeth were very recently done. He is retired. Has been for a while. He knows that rein pressure means stop. he only throws his head up in the field when he is heading towards the barn. I have no money for a trainer so that is why I came here


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

He had his teeth done last mo.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Speed Racer said:


> Has he been retrained? If not, pulling back on the reins for a race horse means you want them to go _faster_. That's why it's so very important for an ex-racer to be retrained once they come off the track.
> 
> Why are you using double reins since you're only trail riding? Is there any particular _reason_ you're using a mullen mouth and a flash noseband? Unless you're showing, there's no real reason for you to use such equipment.
> 
> ...


This.

I strongly suggest getting a qualified professional to come and check him over. You want to make sure that his teeth are floated (just like humans they need to have their teeth checked and floated at least once per year) - have you ever had a sore tooth? It hurts like heck and you can't think of anything but that tooth... ouch! Then having someone yank on something in your mouth? Double ouch! Then I would have a look at the bit you're using. Pelhams are great and they have their place... but a lot of people misuse them. Many people use them for control, rather than finesse - this is incorrect. If you're relying on the curb rein for control, it really isn't surprising that the horse is throwing its head up - a lot of horses will have that reaction to the curb chain. Why are you riding in that bit? Also, imo a flash should never be used with a curb bit. I dislike flashes anyways, but a flash and a curb almost drive me batty. 
Secondly, I think you want to look at having a professional check your saddle fit. An improperly fitting saddle can make a horse act out. My friend just had a saddle fitter out to check her saddle - it turns out that the saddle is much too narrow and is causing deep muscle bruising. You can actually lame a horse with a bad saddle. The horse can act out in some of the following ways: throwing its head up, not listening to cues, balking, bucking, rearing, bolting. 
Have you ever seen a standardbred run? They are taught to brace against the bit (read: they PULL against the bit) and run like that. If your horse hasn't been properly reconditioned and retrained from the track, he could just be doing what he was taught to do on the track - he's not bad, he just hasn't been taught any other way. More to the point, when you're riding correctly, "whoa" comes from the seat, and NOT the reins...

*All in all.. I think that a good trainer would be beneficial for you to learn to ride this horse effectively and correctly *


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Thank you for the additional info, JDI. Very good points.

I dislike severe bits and flash nosebands, too. Control is all about correct _training_, not using harsh bits and clamping their mouths shut. 

I use the softest, easiest bit available for my horses. Yes, even on my spooky, reactive Arab gelding. He responds more to my voice, seat and legs than he does to the bit, and that's the way it's _supposed_ to work.

Using harsh equipment is the lazy/untrained person's way of controlling their animal, and it angers me. 

There's no substitute for proper training, for both the rider _and_ horse.

The purchase price is the least amount of money you'll ever pay concerning a horse. If you don't have the funds for proper training, that's as neglectful as not being able to feed them IMO. Unless they're only going to be pasture poufs, then proper training under saddle isn't a requirement.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Horseychick94 said:


> The flash is to keep his mouth shut.


Eep.. okay. This is not the use of a flash. The flash is not to be used to keep a horse's mouth shut, though a lot of people think that's what it's for. It is not. If you are using it as one, you are just covering a deeper problem that needs to be solved. 

Okay... let me try to put this to an analogy... imagine your back is hurting somewhere, but you can't talk. How do you show a person that you're hurt? Let's say you have to carry a backpack for 2 hours a day, but that backpack doesn't sit nicely on your back. Let's add a few bricks in there for the sake of argument. So you have a heavy backpack that doesn't feel good on your back. Now go for a bit of a walk and a run with it. How do you feel? Did you want to say "ow" a few times, or talk? Yes? Okay, I'm duct-taping your mouth shut. Now you can't talk or protest or make any movements that tell me you're hurting with your mouth. Now what do you do? Okay, go for a bit of a "trot" and try to make a sharp turn without breaking gait. Now trot and stop suddenly - I bet you do some pretty funky footwork or you hollow out your back to try and avoid pressure on your back. 

My point is that your horse is trying to tell you something. He's trying to say that something somewhere isn't right - and you need to fix it. My gut says that your saddle isn't fitting properly.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

My gut says that your saddle isn't fitting properly. [/QUOTE]


My saddle fits very nicely. Just look at my pics in another thread of mine. What bit do you suggest I use? or bitting arrangement?:?


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> This.
> 
> I strongly suggest getting a qualified professional to come and check him over. You want to make sure that his teeth are floated (just like humans they need to have their teeth checked and floated at least once per year) Many people use them for control, rather than finesse - this is incorrect. If you're relying on the curb rein for control, it really isn't surprising that the horse is throwing its head up - a lot of horses will have that reaction to the curb chain. Why are you riding in that bit? Also, imo a flash should never be used with a curb bit. I dislike flashes anyways, but a flash and a curb almost drive me batty.
> "whoa" comes from the seat, and NOT the reins...


 His teeth are fine, they were very recently done (end of last month). When I want to slow my horse down I use the snaffle rein. Not the curb. I use the curb VERY sparingly. I only use it to ask his head under more if needed. If the flash isnt there to keep the mouth shut, that what DOES it do? I use whoa in the seat as well as the hands


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

I have also ridden in this saddle with just a halter and he does fine so it must be the bitting arrangement.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Please take a breath.. we are all just trying to help you. 

The flash was designed to keep the bit altogether quieter in the mouth. It was never supposed to be used as a "keep it shut" mechanism, but unfortunately that seems to be the popular thinking now. 

Have you had the saddle checked over by a professional? Can you please link me to your other posts regarding the saddle? It is absolutely impossible to tell if a saddle is fitting correctly over the internet. People can guess, but it comes down to a physical check by a qualified professional. 

Regarding a bitting arrangement.. personally I'd pop a dee ring french link in and get a trainer to show me how to ride effectively and correctly, and get the horse schooled better.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Why don't you try a 3-piece o-ring snaffle, or a french link? My OTTB goes in that much better than he does in a regular snaffle. He doesn't gape his mouth as much (which I'm assuming yours does) and even though he's progressed to chewing on it, he does foam up nicely after a short amount of time. Other than being unstightly though, it really isn't a problem....just annoying.

As for the girthing problems, just slowly tighten the girth. The process I use(d) is: put saddle on, tighten girth, put split boots on, put bridle on, tighten girth again, walk out to mounting block and/or round pen, check girth before mounting, walk/warm up a little bit, check girth final time, tighten if needed before trotting.

When you want to stop, don't pull back on the reins, do more of a squeezing technique with your hands to get him to slow up. On/off pressure from the bit won't send his head sky high, or give him something to lean on in case he wants to try and speed up. Also, there's a good chance he's throwing his head to avoid the bit because the bit you're using is too harsh on his mouth for your circumstances...in a curb, you should never have to exert a huge amount of pressure on the mouth....even the "squeezing" technique I mentioned would be too much.

Also, theres a good chance that your saddle is too wide for your horse. There's not a lot of gullet clearance, and when you sit in the saddle, usually they sink a little bit.

As for the pawing, chewing, dancing, etc while standing still its just something that comes with having any kind of off the track horse. Start teaching him to stand still by rewarding him with movement.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Very good post, Sam, I wanted to quote this part in particular though:



justsambam08 said:


> Also, theres a good chance that your saddle is too wide for your horse. There's not a lot of gullet clearance, and when you sit in the saddle, usually they sink a little bit.


Okay, I went searching for your saddle thread, OP. I agree with Sam here... from the photos, it looks like a decent fit side-on, maybe a little cantle-high. The picture with you showing the wither clearance has me a little worried. There isn't much clearance, and I'm concerned that the points of the saddle would be prone to digging into the shoulders. This is only from seeing pictures, I strongly recommend you get a qualified saddle fitter out to check things over. I would not be surprised to find "hot spots" especially under the point. 
Have you worked your horse in a clean saddle pad and checked the sweat marks?


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

yes. The sweat marks are even. I can try another bit,too. I like your thinking sam. The sweat marks are even. I can put the med gullet back in to see how he does. He is in a MW right now. It is cantle high because he has a little roach back


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Changing the gullet to something more narrow won't help if the points are too narrow with the MW that's in there now. Again, I strongly suggest getting a qualified saddle fitter out to check it over. I read through that thread and noticed you mentioned that he was being a bit of a brat when you were jumping him too -- may I ask what he was doing?


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

When he was jumping he was being a brat because he was really hyper and I was trying to slow him down lol. I don't think there are any saddle fitters in my area.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

> I think it is affecting his balance. I cannot turn him while trotting without him going off balance and walking.



I'm going to focus on this part of your original post, as I think other posters have addressed the other issues. My overall impression is that your horse was never truly "reclaimed" from the track. Saddle fit may also be part of the problem, but I think the biggest issue is that your horse really doesn't know how to be a riding horse and is stuck in driving horse mode. 

Have you ever truly watched a driving horse in shafts and how they turn? They don't bend their bodies, because they can't - the shafts prevent them. They turn by holding their bodies still and pivoting on their hind ends, crossing over with their front legs. So when you ask your horse to turn as a riding horse should, bending his body and making a gradual, turn, he can't do it. The fact the he comes back to a walk in order to turn tells me he's a smart, nice guy who wants to live to see dinner. His reaction to being unbalanced is to slow down - that's a good thing. 

Teaching a horse to bend and balance around a turn is 1.) a job for an experienced rider or one supervised by an instructor and 2.) more complicated than I can explain in a internet post. 

Of the problems you mention in your original post, most are attributable to the horse's history on the track and not being reschooled as a riding horse. If you can find someone to help you, even for a short time, that has some experience reschooling OTTSBs, that would be best. 

​


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

If you cannot afford a trainer, why not look one up and get some videos and such? I like Clinton Anderson's bending practices they are very helpful in many many ways. Im huge on bending, i think its a godsend. And i feel bending is something you really need right now. It will relax your horse, get him mind focused on your, teach him to give to the bit and be softer in the mouth, and many other helpful things. Its amazing how much simple bending exercises helps you and your horse.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks Maura! That makes sense!!!!!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Maura, what a wonderful response. OP, I hope you can take a step back and absorb the information being offered rather than continue to dismiss every response.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

thanks delete!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Yet another owner who thinks DVDs and books are going to magically fix their horse. :roll:

OP, you're looking for a magic bullet and there isn't such a thing. If it existed, do you think those of us advising you to get yourself and your horse to a trainer wouldn't have already used it?

The next thread you post about your 'horrible' horse I'm going to ignore, since it's obvious you're unwilling to listen to any real suggestions that might actually cost you time, effort and money.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Themacpac and Speed Racer, I am only dismissing responses because they involve $$ that I DONT HAVE!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

maura said:


> I'm going to focus on this part of your original post, as I think other posters have addressed the other issues. My overall impression is that your horse was never truly "reclaimed" from the track. Saddle fit may also be part of the problem, but I think the biggest issue is that your horse really doesn't know how to be a riding horse and is stuck in driving horse mode. ​
> Have you ever truly watched a driving horse in shafts and how they turn? They don't bend their bodies, because they can't - the shafts prevent them. They turn by holding their bodies still and pivoting on their hind ends, crossing over with their front legs. So when you ask your horse to turn as a riding horse should, bending his body and making a gradual, turn, he can't do it. The fact the he comes back to a walk in order to turn tells me he's a smart, nice guy who wants to live to see dinner. His reaction to being unbalanced is to slow down - that's a good thing. ​
> Teaching a horse to bend and balance around a turn is 1.) a job for an experienced rider or one supervised by an instructor and 2.) more complicated than I can explain in a internet post. ​
> Of the problems you mention in your original post, most are attributable to the horse's history on the track and not being reschooled as a riding horse. If you can find someone to help you, even for a short time, that has some experience reschooling OTTSBs, that would be best. ​


Thank you for writing this Maura. Very good point, one I skimmed over in my previous responses.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Horseychick94 said:


> Themacpac and Speed Racer, I am only dismissing responses because they involve $$ that I DONT HAVE!


 
There is no need to be rude or dismissive though... you asked a question, and people are giving you answers...


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Im sorry everybody for being dismissive, I am just SO STRESSED OUT!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

The thing is that something needs to change; you need to learn how to work and retrain this horse, and please get the saddle fit checked. I would suggest going to a simple snaffle (preferably a double jointed bit with cheeks, I suggest a dee ring french link for this horse) and ditching the flash, as it is being used incorrectly. People on the internet can only help so much; you want someone right there with you to teach you how to retrain this horse, you need that constant, immediate feedback. DVDs are good... to a point. There is no feedback, so you could be doing something wrong and never know it.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

true. I will do that!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Hey look! I struck gold! Untitled Document


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

I would just like to quote this from the article you just posted. 

This advice should not replace that of a good riding instructor or other equestrian professional, and should be used as part of a complete riding program.

Following those instructions will probably greatly improve your horse but it still won't fix him. That is like step 1 of a 100 step process. You will need a QUALIFIED professional to work with you and your horse to turn him into a fully trained and functioning member of equine society. If your only goals are to pleasure ride then you might be able to muddle through his retraining and hack him. If you have competition or other higher level goals then I seriously suggest that you do not try to retrain him yourself. If you don't have the money to put into getting him retrained then you should not have him, IMO. Sell him and buy a horse that you can ride and enjoy at your level or that is trained to the level you want to ride at. People with limited training experience trying to retrain OTT horses is not a good idea. It usually ends badly for both horse and rider.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Speed Racer,  My horse and I are living proof that you *can* fix problems from watching DVDs, and reading! If you're willing to take the time to read, watch educational videos, eta.. then you can fix a problem. What is a trainer going to teach her that a training professional who makes how-to DVD's can't? 

She's young and probably doesn't have a job, I can, as well as others can sympathize. Getting a horse trained is expensive, and not everyone is lucky enough to be able to afford one. I didn't get lucky until two years ago when I got a job, my parents didn't help me pay for anything! So I worked my [email protected] off to scrape up enough money to pay for the trainer. I did ALL of my ground work and basic saddle training before I went to the trainers, because I watched many DVD's and read many books. 

Guess what? When Gunther went to the trainers for the first time they told me, "I'm very impressed that this is your first horse you have ever trained, he has great manners, and is very quiet, eta, eta..." :lol:


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> I would just like to quote this from the article you just posted.
> 
> This advice should not replace that of a good riding instructor or other equestrian professional, and should be used as part of a complete riding program.
> 
> Following those instructions will probably greatly improve your horse but it still won't fix him. That is like step 1 of a 100 step process. You will need a QUALIFIED professional to work with you and your horse to turn him into a fully trained and functioning member of equine society. If your only goals are to pleasure ride then you might be able to muddle through his retraining and hack him. If you have competition or other higher level goals then I seriously suggest that you do not try to retrain him yourself. If you don't have the money to put into getting him retrained then you should not have him, IMO. Sell him and buy a horse that you can ride and enjoy at your level or that is trained to the level you want to ride at. People with limited training experience trying to retrain OTT horses is not a good idea. It usually ends badly for both horse and rider.


I am not looking to show him or anything, he is a pleasure/ trail horse. That is why I don't want to hire someone because it would be a waste. He is a pet and I love him. I am NEVER selling him. He is my best friend. Even if he could do NOTHING, I would never sell him. We have a bond. he just needs work.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

White Foot said:


> Speed Racer,  My horse and I are living proof that you *can* fix problems from watching DVDs, and reading! If you're willing to take the time to read, watch educational videos, eta.. then you can fix a problem. What is a trainer going to teach her that a training professional who makes how-to DVD's can't?
> 
> She's young and probably doesn't have a job, I can, as well as others can sympathize. Getting a horse trained is expensive, and not everyone is lucky enough to be able to afford one. I didn't get lucky until two years ago when I got a job, my parents didn't help me pay for anything! So I worked my [email protected] off to scrape up enough money to pay for the trainer. I did ALL of my ground work and basic saddle training before I went to the trainers, because I watched many DVD's and read many books.
> 
> Guess what? When Gunther went to the trainers for the first time they told me, "I'm very impressed that this is your first horse you have ever trained, he has great manners, and is very quiet, eta, eta..." :lol:


I......LOVE YOU!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! I am only 16 and jobless. I would rather have a horse instead of a trainer and NO $$ to afford the horse lol:lol:


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I was always taught that when I want to slow down or stop a horse to pull back on the reins but working with my new trainer I've learned differently. When I want to stop I never pull on his head because it just frustrates them. Instead I take the left rein and I lightly pull, only apply more pressure if he doesn't listen. And to slow down I soften my seat and pull my left rein.

I would NOT work at the trot until you are 100% comfortable and perfect at the walk.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Okay, I will try that! That is the way I was taught also!


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

White Foot, 

That's terrific that you got good results with your horse. However, I'm going to assume that you were working with a green horse, not a reclaim. A horse off the track is a *reclaim*, and that is much more difficult than a green horse.

And I personally think that reclaiming a OTTSB is harder than reclaiming an OTTTB. Though it's difficult, OTTTBs can pretty quickly be taught to supple and bend. An OTTSB assumes that bending is going to *hurt*. Every horse broken to drive learns the painful lesson early that if they try to bend, they get poked by a shaft. Overcoming that resistance requires trust, tact and IMO, experience.

Horseychick, I think the thing you have going for you here is your horse's overall disposition and temperment. He's clearly a good, kind and willing guy or you wouldn't have gotten as far as you have. HOWEVER, this is not a quick fix. Your horse needs to be reschooled as a riding horse. There just isn't a magic wand for that. I am totally sympathetic to not having tons of money to work with; but I really want to make the point that whatever training method you undertake (books, video, advice on the internet, instructor, trainer, friend) HAS TO deal with, first and foremost 1.) reschooling a racehorse and 2.) reschooling a driving horse as a riding horse.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> Yet another owner who thinks DVDs and books are going to magically fix their horse. :roll:


I dont think DVDs are going to magically fix a horse, i wasnt implying that nore did i say it. DVD's and books is better then nothing. If she cannot afford a trainer, then why not watch a DVD or read a book on it? What harm will it do?


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> I......LOVE YOU!!!!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!! I am only 16 and jobless. I would rather have a horse instead of a trainer and NO $$ to afford the horse lol:lol:


You sound just like me when I was 16. I couldn't find a job until I was almost 17, and even then I made minimum wage (which isn't much). And I remember I always wanted to go to the barn to watch and learn from the trainers, but I had no car! Sure my dad would drive me to the barn every now and again but normally they just got home late from work and didn't want to do anything. I can't imagine life without having a car now, but when I was younger you couldn't do anything without one.. and had to depend on your parents for everything. 

If you can, see if you can find a local trainer to watch for free  I always was so envious of the girls (more like their parents) who could afford to board, train, and have everything. I had to work for everything and I wouldn't take it back for the world! That's what made me who I am today, and someday you will look back and say the same thing. I lived alone with my father and he was a construction worker, and we could afford to keep our two horses but not get one trained at the same time. I love my dad, he's the one who kept me interested in horses and taught me the value of a dollar. 

I work at a barn now and I got offered to train/board my horse instead of getting paid (which sucks because now I will have to pick up a second job) but it's worth it.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

maura said:


> White Foot,
> 
> That's terrific that you got good results with your horse. However, I'm going to assume that you were working with a green horse, not a reclaim. A horse off the track is a *reclaim*, and that is much more difficult than a green horse.
> 
> ...


Gunther was a green horse. I also work the NY chapter of the Rerun program for OTTB. It all depends on the personality of the horse, I've seen green horses that it would take a miracle to try and train and I've seen some of the TB's come in that are starving and beaten that pick up on training sessions like nothing. 

With that being said I've had no experience with retraining a harness horse.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

NittanyEquestrian said:


> If you don't have the money to put into getting him retrained then you should not have him, IMO. Sell him and buy a horse that you can ride and enjoy at your level or that is trained to the level you want to ride at. People with limited training experience trying to retrain OTT horses is not a good idea. It usually ends badly for both horse and rider.


I don't agree with this. If this was the case then I and others would have sold their horses a long, long time ago. If someone doesn't have the money for a trainer that means they have to work harder and study harder to try and fix the problems themselves. If someone doesn't have the money for food, it would be a different story. I could easily afford a farrier but I hated spending my money on something I could do myself for free. So what did I do? I studied, learned, and watched, how to trim horses feet. Now I do their feet by myself.


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## Hali (Jun 17, 2009)

Harness horses (STBS) are not the same to train as TBs.

My friend has owned many STBS - all of them right off the track. She's been riding for YEARS, yet she ALWAYS has her Standies sent to a professional trainer before she rides them. It's a whole different level of training than with a riding racing horse.

I second getting a professional to help you out. Maybe you can do some work in exchange for a training session? (Assuming the trainer has a stable or facility with horses - stalls always have to be cleaned!)


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

White Foot said:


> I don't agree with this. If this was the case then I and others would have sold their horses a long, long time ago. If someone doesn't have the money for a trainer that means they have to work harder and study harder to try and fix the problems themselves. If someone doesn't have the money for food, it would be a different story. I could easily afford a farrier but I hated spending my money on something I could do myself for free. So what did I do? I studied, learned, and watched, how to trim horses feet. Now I do their feet by myself.


Yeah, what she said about not having the $$ for a trainer = me should not have horse:shock: really ticked me off.:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x Its not like he will roll over and die without a trainer. My horses are happy and I love them and take care of them better than a lot of ppl I see. Just because I dont have the $$ for a trainer does not mean I shouldnt have him. That is nonsense.:roll: I would rather have the horse trained by me, that way, he gets to eat lol :lol:


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

[/QUOTE] Maybe you can do some work in exchange for a training session? (Assuming the trainer has a stable or facility with horses - stalls always have to be cleaned!)[/QUOTE]

Thanks! That is a great idea! Never thought of that one!!!!!


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I'll ask my boss about the OTSB. Good luck with everything, it will all work out in the end.


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Has he been retrained? If not, pulling back on the reins for a race horse means you want them to go _faster_. That's why it's so very important for an ex-racer to be retrained once they come off the track.
> 
> Why are you using double reins since you're only trail riding? Is there any particular _reason_ you're using a mullen mouth and a flash noseband? Unless you're showing, there's no real reason for you to use such equipment.
> 
> ...


^^^ What they said! 



Horseychick94 said:


> A prof. trainer suggested the pelham to relax the jaw and so far it has worked well for him as the snaffle pulls his head up and hollows his back. The flash is to keep his mouth shut. His teeth were very recently done. He is retired. Has been for a while. He knows that rein pressure means stop. he only throws his head up in the field when he is heading towards the barn. I have no money for a trainer so that is why I came here


The flash should NOT be used to FORCE his mouth shut. You should never, EVER have to force your horse to keep it's mouth shut.

He doesn't sound like he knows that rein pressure means stop. Also you said he throws his head when going towards the barn, is he barn sour or herd bound?



Horseychick94 said:


> When he was jumping he was being a brat because he was really hyper and I was trying to slow him down lol. I don't think there are any saddle fitters in my area.


Why on earth are you jumping this horse? :shock:



JustDressageIt said:


> There is no need to be rude or dismissive though... you asked a question, and people are giving you answers...


Agreed! We can't give you the answers you want because that involves shelling no money out and...horses cost money. Training cost money. Their health costs money. Basically, don't buy a horse and expect to not go broke.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> The next thread you post about your 'horrible' horse I'm going to ignore, since it's obvious you're unwilling to listen to any real suggestions that might actually cost you time, effort and money.


He is not horrible


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> The thing is that something needs to change; you need to learn how to work and retrain this horse, and please get the saddle fit checked. I would suggest going to a simple snaffle (preferably a double jointed bit with cheeks, I suggest a dee ring french link for this horse) and ditching the flash, as it is being used incorrectly. People on the internet can only help so much; you want someone right there with you to teach you how to retrain this horse, you need that constant, immediate feedback. DVDs are good... to a point. There is no feedback, so you could be doing something wrong and never know it.


Would this be a good bit to go with? http://lbdamron.com/Dee_Ring_Horse_Bit_1277-p6028.html


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

This link works....... Dee Ring Horse Bit 1277 :: Dee Ring Horse Bit :: Horse Bits and Accessories :: Horse Tack, Bits, Bridles & Equipment, Horse Grooming Stuff & Stable Gear Supply - Damron International LLC


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

kmdstar said:


> He doesn't sound like he knows that rein pressure means stop. Also you said he throws his head when going towards the barn, is he barn sour or herd bound?
> 
> I think just eager to go back to the barn
> 
> ...


You have to have money to spend it. I am 16 and dont have a job so what DO you expect me to do? Cant pull it out of my butt.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

How do you pay for everything else? If you dont have a job?


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

My grandparents pay for their food. I pay for equipment. My mom does vet bills and farrier


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> You have to have money to spend it. I am 16 and dont have a job so what DO you expect me to do? Cant pull it out of my butt.


Every horse is eager to get back to the barn. Not all of them throw their heads...

If you are having all of these issues with your horse, you should NOT be jumping.
Can you walk, trot AND canter your horse with no problem whatsoever?


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Stick a fork in me, I'm done.

I would like to strongly suggest that every serious horseperson with actual hands on experience now stay out of this thread, which is exactly what I plan to do from now on. 

Apparently the OP only wants to hear from sympathetic teenagers, not people who actually have the experience or ability to help. 

Oh, and don't make any suggestions about anything that might cost money.

That should leave a lot of latitude for constructive advice.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I agree that she shouldn't be jumping him, but everyone needs to think about what they were like when they were 16. Were not all lucky to have parents that pay for everything! And if people are suggesting she gets a job they obviously haven't tried to job search in this economy, esp being her age it would be hard for her to find a job. It took me close to a year to find a job, I started searching when I was 16 and didn't get one until I was almost 17. 

We've all made out share of mistakes. When I first bought my horse I was riding her in oversized tack and an old rusty bit.

Maura, you're the one who isn't listening. What good will it do forcing the "you need money$!$" thing on her when she obviously doesn't have any????? Please answer me that question. I HAVE experience, I work at a boarding facility, I help train horses, and I work at a Rerun program. I'm trying to HELP her, not bash her head because she doesn't have the ability to pay. That's exactly what won't help her.

A person with EXPERIENCE would learn how to work AROUND what is stopping them from getting trainer. And in her case it's the money.


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## .Delete. (Jan 7, 2008)

I agree, jumping him is a nono


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## Cinnys Whinny (Apr 10, 2010)

All good points above but it also sounds to me like you are riding primarily with the bridle and not from your seat. It is my suspicion that if this horse has been retrained, he may have been retrained by someone who does ride from the seat which would mean you are missing some of your cues and confusing him, which means you may also find he doesn't turn like you would like him to either.

When you ask him to slow down or stop shift some of your weight slightly back like you are trying to sit on the back pockets of your pants and brace against your own inner core (stomach muscles). Instead of pulling or yanking on the mouth gently create a "road block" so to speak instead...and gently add pressure with the reins until he gives you what you want, then resume correct position and release all pressure. Be sure to tell him Whoa assertively, as well.

A good exercise also is to practice stopping on the ground with a halter and then in the arena mounted. Have him stop in different places all the time and with every stop try to get him to back at least 2 steps. Eventually he will start anticipating that he will need to back up soon and constantly listen for your cues and pay more attention to you. Do this at a walk at first on the ground with a halter then progress to the arena and gradually work up through the gaits.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

^ Great advice, I would take it all in.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

White Foot, 

At no point did I mention money, or that she had to spend money. Please go back and read my posts. My focus was on understanding WHY the horse is acting this way; and why it's important to understand that in order to fix the problem, and that it's not a quick fix. 

Nowhere did I mention money, or insist that she have to have a professional trainer. 

This thread is titled, in part "cry for help", 



> You have to have money to spend it. I am 16 and dont have a job so what DO you expect me to do? Cant pull it out of my butt


This makes me think that the OP is not serious in her request for help.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Here's my suggestion; keep in mind, I am 19, currently jobless, and living at home. I have an OTTB in need of lots of emotional rehab, not necessarily under saddle rehab. I lost my job right as Ice started seeing a trainer, so the months of "therapy" that he was going to get turned into a few weekends. She then showed me what I could do with him to get it back to the point where we could start doing ground work, and then start working under saddle. Still, I call her when I'm unsure of something and she comes out and watches me, then shows me if need be.

Find someone near you who has experience with schooling OTTSBs, and offer to clean stalls for them in exchange for a reduced training package--i.e. showing YOU what to do and how to do it correctly. Buy your bit, and then save up whatever allowance you get. Until then, don't ride him....just work on the basics. You can teach him to bend from the ground, which will help in basically everything. I'm betting he also has issues with yielding his forequarters. See if you can get him doing that on your own, and then when you have enough money see the trainer. At least for a month. 

Also, that bit is fine. The roller might even reduce some of his mouth gaping and chewing, because he has something to entertain himself with.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

maura said:


> White Foot,
> 
> At no point did I mention money, or that she had to spend money. Please go back and read my posts. My focus was on understanding WHY the horse is acting this way; and why it's important to understand that in order to fix the problem, and that it's not a quick fix.
> 
> ...


"Oh, and don't make any suggestions about anything that might cost money." :-| I think this was mentioning money.

I fully understand where you're coming from, but I can also understand where she's coming from. Just put yourself in her shoes, unless, your parents paid for all your thing then you would never understand the situation at hand. I think we're all getting frustrated and need to take a deep breathe. I know at the young age of 16 I got frustrated easily :lol: that's why school and I never mixed well together.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

^^White Foot, if her parents were not willing to pay for training, it probably would have been in their best interests to just get her a dog.

If the horse doesn't need training, you usually do.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

maura said:


> Stick a fork in me, I'm done.
> 
> I would like to strongly suggest that every serious horseperson with actual hands on experience now stay out of this thread, which is exactly what I plan to do from now on.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I dont have the money to spend! Is that such a sin?


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

kmdstar said:


> Every horse is eager to get back to the barn. Not all of them throw their heads...
> 
> If you are having all of these issues with your horse, you should NOT be jumping.
> Can you walk, trot AND canter your horse with no problem whatsoever?


 I can do anything with him anywhere else but the field. I usu. ride on the rd.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

White Foot said:


> I agree that she shouldn't be jumping him, but everyone needs to think about what they were like when they were 16. Were not all lucky to have parents that pay for everything! And if people are suggesting she gets a job they obviously haven't tried to job search in this economy, esp being her age it would be hard for her to find a job. It took me close to a year to find a job, I started searching when I was 16 and didn't get one until I was almost 17.
> 
> We've all made out share of mistakes. When I first bought my horse I was riding her in oversized tack and an old rusty bit.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the understanding. I was jumping him in the fence, not the field so he was great (but being hyper)


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

.Delete. said:


> I agree, jumping him is a nono


I was in the fence. He behaves in there but he was just hyper because he was feelin' gooooood! The problems I told about occur outside the fence in the field


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Cinnys Whinny said:


> All good points above but it also sounds to me like you are riding primarily with the bridle and not from your seat. It is my suspicion that if this horse has been retrained, he may have been retrained by someone who does ride from the seat which would mean you are missing some of your cues and confusing him, which means you may also find he doesn't turn like you would like him to either.
> 
> When you ask him to slow down or stop shift some of your weight slightly back like you are trying to sit on the back pockets of your pants and brace against your own inner core (stomach muscles). Instead of pulling or yanking on the mouth gently create a "road block" so to speak instead...and gently add pressure with the reins until he gives you what you want, then resume correct position and release all pressure. Be sure to tell him Whoa assertively, as well.
> 
> A good exercise also is to practice stopping on the ground with a halter and then in the arena mounted. Have him stop in different places all the time and with every stop try to get him to back at least 2 steps. Eventually he will start anticipating that he will need to back up soon and constantly listen for your cues and pay more attention to you. Do this at a walk at first on the ground with a halter then progress to the arena and gradually work up through the gaits.


I retrained him lol  Ooooohhh! Wonderful advice! I will be sure to try that! Thanks a lot!!!!!!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

White Foot said:


> ^ Great advice, I would take it all in.


AWESOME advice!!!! That just may work!!!!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

maura said:


> White Foot,
> 
> At no point did I mention money, or that she had to spend money. Please go back and read my posts. My focus was on understanding WHY the horse is acting this way; and why it's important to understand that in order to fix the problem, and that it's not a quick fix.
> 
> ...


I am serious, just frustrated that some are stressing "hire a trainer" after I have mentioned that I dont have money


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Here's my suggestion; keep in mind, I am 19, currently jobless, and living at home. I have an OTTB in need of lots of emotional rehab, not necessarily under saddle rehab. I lost my job right as Ice started seeing a trainer, so the months of "therapy" that he was going to get turned into a few weekends. She then showed me what I could do with him to get it back to the point where we could start doing ground work, and then start working under saddle. Still, I call her when I'm unsure of something and she comes out and watches me, then shows me if need be.
> 
> Find someone near you who has experience with schooling OTTSBs, and offer to clean stalls for them in exchange for a reduced training package--i.e. showing YOU what to do and how to do it correctly. Buy your bit, and then save up whatever allowance you get. Until then, don't ride him....just work on the basics. You can teach him to bend from the ground, which will help in basically everything. I'm betting he also has issues with yielding his forequarters. See if you can get him doing that on your own, and then when you have enough money see the trainer. At least for a month.
> 
> Also, that bit is fine. The roller might even reduce some of his mouth gaping and chewing, because he has something to entertain himself with.


Okay!!!!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

It isn't that they aren't hearing you - it is that the problems you are having are problems that need to be addressed with the help of a trainer. The situation you are in is not one that you can muddle through yourself - for your sake or your horse's.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> ^^White Foot, if her parents were not willing to pay for training, it probably would have been in their best interests to just get her a dog.
> 
> If the horse doesn't need training, you usually do.


Ummm, that is kind of harsh. I may be young but I am not stupid lol. I know the basics. I started him out but I just need some help with fine tuning. I was told that when racing, he had his head strapped up in the air so that may be the prob. And BTW, I do have a dog. They bought me horses for a reason, for emotional therapy. They just dont have the extra $$ to spend when with the proper guidance, I can fix these problems myself.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

themacpack said:


> It isn't that they aren't hearing you - it is that the problems you are having are problems that need to be addressed with the help of a trainer. The situation you are in is not one that you can muddle through yourself - for your sake or your horse's.


I admit, I do need trainer advice. But I cannot have one come out as I have no $$


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Okay, now I have a problem....you say that you're 16, no job, your parents pay for everything, and yet you retrained him? No, you sit on him and you're lucky he hasn't killed you yet. I'm betting he was cheap, which is why your parents agreed to pay for him in the first place. What kind of riding experience do you have to make that statement--regardless, obviously you didn't "retrain" him very well, or you wouldn't be crying for help, you wouldn't have problems with controlling him, rushing into jumps (onto the road, which is INCREDIBLY stupid, might I add), and you would know that you don't throw a curb bit on a horse before they're absolutely PERFECT in some type of snaffle.

I bought an off the track horse, but I understood what I was getting in to. I understood that at some point I was going to hit a wall and have to get a trainer. I'm a rider, but I'm not a trainer. When that time came, I submitted to everything, got a trainer even though it killed my bank account, but I know that I'll have a nice horse at the end of this. When we advocate getting a trainer, we understand that you don't have money, but what you need to understand is that point blank, its so you don't kill yourself. That would be unfair to your horse, who your parents would undoubtedly blame, and then he would be unrightfully put down. Talk to your parents, (who I bet aren't horse people) and if they can't see that you NEED a trainer, then you should think of selling.

"Knowing the basics" is like saying you know how to climb a tree, so why not climb a mountain without a harness?


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> Okay, now I have a problem....you say that you're 16, no job, your parents pay for everything, and yet you retrained him? No, you sit on him and you're lucky he hasn't killed you yet. I'm betting he was cheap, which is why your parents agreed to pay for him in the first place. What kind of riding experience do you have to make that statement--regardless, obviously you didn't "retrain" him very well, or you wouldn't be crying for help, you wouldn't have problems with controlling him, rushing into jumps (onto the road, which is INCREDIBLY stupid, might I add), and you would know that you don't throw a curb bit on a horse before they're absolutely PERFECT in some type of snaffle.
> 
> I bought an off the track horse, but I understood what I was getting in to. I understood that at some point I was going to hit a wall and have to get a trainer. I'm a rider, but I'm not a trainer. When that time came, I submitted to everything, got a trainer even though it killed my bank account, but I know that I'll have a nice horse at the end of this. When we advocate getting a trainer, we understand that you don't have money, but what you need to understand is that point blank, its so you don't kill yourself. That would be unfair to your horse, who your parents would undoubtedly blame, and then he would be unrightfully put down. Talk to your parents, (who I bet aren't horse people) and if they can't see that you NEED a trainer, then you should think of selling.
> 
> "Knowing the basics" is like saying you know how to climb a tree, so why not climb a mountain without a harness?


This horse IS trained. 
I trained him well and he can be ridden by even my 9 yr old cousin. His training is not the problem. This horse was free but that is not why they agreed to get him. We all know what we were getting into. I have been riding for 8 yrs. I am not just sitting on him and lucky I am not getting killed. He is trained. He does the best on the road. I can rie him tackless on the road with just a strap around his neck. He is fine. Do NOT insult me or call me STUPID!!!! I was instructed by a professional trainer to put him in a pelham so I did. I used the curb rein VERY sparingly. NO horse is going to be "perfect in a snaffle". I HAD him in a snaffle before the pelham and he went TERRIBLY in it. With his pelham he is relaxed. He just gets excitable in the field. Even if I died riding him, they love him and they would NEVER euthanize him. It seems as though your method is giving up when things go wrong. If I don't have the $$ to buy a trainer, sell the horse. This horse is not going to die without a trainer. He is a trail horse, not a show horse.


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## horselover1428 (Apr 12, 2010)

I have a 21 year old horse that I recently got. He has had the same owner all his life and she needed a good home for him because she was getting too old to ride him. He has been trained by numerous professionals and i have rode him at her indoor arena several times before we brought him home. The first couple times I rode him when we got him home went great.....but now he won't turn, won't walk into certain pastures and will go into a trot without me telling him. He has also broke into a canter when we are in a trot. He was trained with spurs and i use them too.....but it doesn't help. Now if I want to turn i have to stop him first and did my leg/spur in his side, and yank on the reins to get him to go, and sometimes he still wont......I'm not sure why he does this and if anybody has any advice for me...please help.....like you I am losing my patience with him but I hate to because he is such a great and gentle horse.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Horseychick94 said:


> This link works....... Dee Ring Horse Bit 1277 :: Dee Ring Horse Bit :: Horse Bits and Accessories :: Horse Tack, Bits, Bridles & Equipment, Horse Grooming Stuff & Stable Gear Supply - Damron International LLC


I like this bit, but not for a horse that already chews. The copper roller in the middle there encourages a horse to play with the bit - not something you want for an already mouthy horse. The price makes me think that it might not be the best quality either. 
If you don't mind shelling out a bit for a bit (haha) here's a fantastic bit: Mikmar Bit Company
(The Mikmar D-Ring Ergöm Lozenge Snaffle)
The Cupreon will make the horse like the taste and foam, but won't encourage him to play or mouth the bit. I also like the idea of a bean link rather than a true french link. 
Otherwise, perhaps try something like this:
JP Bits by KORSTEEL - Hunter Dee with Oval Mouth Dee Ring Bits English HorseLoverZ.com
or
JP Bits by KORSTEEL - Hunter Dee with Copper Oval Link Dee Ring Bits English HorseLoverZ.com


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> I like this bit, but not for a horse that already chews. The copper roller in the middle there encourages a horse to play with the bit - not something you want for an already mouthy horse. The price makes me think that it might not be the best quality either.
> If you don't mind shelling out a bit for a bit (haha) here's a fantastic bit: Mikmar Bit Company
> (The Mikmar D-Ring Ergöm Lozenge Snaffle)
> The Cupreon will make the horse like the taste and foam, but won't encourage him to play or mouth the bit. I also like the idea of a bean link rather than a true french link.
> ...


Ooooh! THANKS!!!! Some happy stuff comes out of this hair whitening stressful tread lol


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Methinks I found my problem........ Riding Concepts | Horse Videos – Horse.com Video Library


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

All I'm saying about the saddle is that it can be compounding problems. If the horse is confused (not trained properly, or you're not asking properly) and in pain from ill-fitting tack, it can just make the problem so much worse than it already is.
Just food for thought...


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

thx!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

That vid is really helpful


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

horselover1428 said:


> I have a 21 year old horse that I recently got. He has had the same owner all his life and she needed a good home for him because she was getting too old to ride him. He has been trained by numerous professionals and i have rode him at her indoor arena several times before we brought him home. The first couple times I rode him when we got him home went great.....but now he won't turn, won't walk into certain pastures and will go into a trot without me telling him. He has also broke into a canter when we are in a trot. He was trained with spurs and i use them too.....but it doesn't help. Now if I want to turn i have to stop him first and did my leg/spur in his side, and yank on the reins to get him to go, and sometimes he still wont......I'm not sure why he does this and if anybody has any advice for me...please help.....like you I am losing my patience with him but I hate to because he is such a great and gentle horse.


Get a trainer, he's learnt he can get away with things and he is taking advantage of you. You need someone to work with you to solve these issues.

To the OP, you said you bought equipment, why not use that money for a trainer? I know what is like to be jobless and need money for animals, I'm in that situation now although not with a horse. My first piece of advice is get a job then get a trainer or do what others have suggested and work for training. Just because you can put your 9 year old cousin on him for a while doesn't mean he's well trained. I used to ride a Welsh D that had issues with bucking and taking off at my riding school, they put beginners on him...Well I think until I was thrown off him and broke my shoulder. I took on an ex racer on loan last year who was partly ridden by a young lad, discovered he was as stiff as board and needed someone specialised in retraining racehorses to get the esstentials on him. Now he was good sometimes but he need more experience than I had so I stopped the loan. Your training is the issue, you state he has issues on the way home and issues with turning, they're training issues.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

I am planning on working with him tomorrow with the suggested methods and see how he does.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Oh boy.



> I trained him well and he can be ridden by even my 9 yr old cousin. His training is not the problem.


A well trained horse will always listen to a request to stop. A well trained horse will not act up when they have excess energy (I.e. get 'hyper'). This is not a well trained horse. He may be a partially trained horse who is in pain and acting up.



> I was instructed by a professional trainer to put him in a pelham so I did. I used the curb rein VERY sparingly.


Why were you instructed to put him in a pelham? What reason?



> NO horse is going to be "perfect in a snaffle". I HAD him in a snaffle before the pelham and he went TERRIBLY in it.


Oops, better tell my horse that. He goes perfectly in a snaffle - ALL the time. Jumping, racing, working cattle, playing polocrosse, trail riding. I use a curb occasionally to refine my cues, that's it. 



> He is a trail horse, not a show horse.


There should be no difference in the level of training between a show horse and a trail horse - Just the type of training. A trail horse might even need MORE training - To walk calmly back to the barn, to stop even in a stressful situation - things your horse has not learnt.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Horseychick94 said:


> NO horse is going to be "perfect in a snaffle".


No horse is going to be perfect in a snaffle!? My kids learned to ride on an OTTB who was one heck of a perfect horse and yes, she was in a simple bridle and a snaffle! 

I have a green horse (also in a snaffle) who doesn't bend well right now because her previous owner apparently never taught her how to. Teaching that horse to bend is probably the hardest thing I have ever done and I HAVE A TRAINER!! I have a trainer who not only is there every single time I ride my horse, she's training her at least 3-4 more days per week. 

You want some advice that won't cost you $$$? SELL your horse and go buy one that doesn't need a trainer!!


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## PoohLP (Jan 15, 2009)

Long thread - here are my thoughts.

A. Getting some training would be very helpful, but I know money is a problem. Maybe you could get someone to come out and work with you once every month or two, which shouldn't cost more than $40-$50 a pop. Then you can work on the exercises they give you in the weeks in between. Obviously, more often is better, but if you have a good feel and practice hard in between, you could get a lot of benefit even from fairly infrequent lessons. You might even be able to find a trainer that will trade a few days a month of stall cleanings for one or two lessons a month. 

B. All the balance problems tells me you need to work on laterals. You need to do lots of reverses and weaving patterns where you changes directions frequently so your horse gets more tuned into you and your cues. Also, to help with balance, do turns on the haunches and forehands, shoulder ins and outs and leg yields. Start at the walk and as he gets confident, move to the trot. This will help him to get more balanced and moving off your leg. Also, work lots of half halts with a focus on getting a steady rhythm with reliable response and work on getting your horse to stretch and relax. If you haven't done these before, you will need a trainer to get you started on doing these exercises, but even once a month or so could be enough to get you started. 

C. Definitely try some different bits. You may need to experiment a bit, but if you are doing your exercises, when you find the right bit you will know it. It won't be an instant fix, but it should make things easier and help increase responsiveness. The advantage of working (even sporadically) with a trainer is that you might be able to borrow bits while you try to find what works. Then when you buy one, you're not wasting money on the wrong one.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

Mow lawns.
Walk dogs.
Babysit.

You're going to need money to get a trainer or else you're going to have a hard time being taken seriously. I am not trying to be mean but it's quite obvious from your posts that you really are unsure of what is going on/how to handle this horse. I know you've received a lot of advice in this thread but it's simply not going to be enough, you will need someone to come help you.
So, at 16, there's no reason why you can't take on odd jobs. I lived in the middle of nowhere at 16 with parents who worked all the time and could never drive me anywhere, and I still managed to make money to buy my horsey extras.
The horse world is a diesel truck. Sucks gas. Except instead of diesel fuel, it runs on cash. 
If you don't have the cash, your truck isn't leaving the yard kiddo.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

poohlp said:


> long thread - here are my thoughts.
> 
> A. Getting some training would be very helpful, but i know money is a problem. Maybe you could get someone to come out and work with you once every month or two, which shouldn't cost more than $40-$50 a pop. Then you can work on the exercises they give you in the weeks in between. Obviously, more often is better, but if you have a good feel and practice hard in between, you could get a lot of benefit even from fairly infrequent lessons. You might even be able to find a trainer that will trade a few days a month of stall cleanings for one or two lessons a month.
> 
> ...


thank you for not putting my horse up for sale as an option!!!


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Let me phrase it this way - you say you can't afford to get a trainer, I would say you can't afford NOT to.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Delfina said:


> No horse is going to be perfect in a snaffle!? My kids learned to ride on an OTTB who was one heck of a perfect horse and yes, she was in a simple bridle and a snaffle!
> 
> I have a green horse (also in a snaffle) who doesn't bend well right now because her previous owner apparently never taught her how to. Teaching that horse to bend is probably the hardest thing I have ever done and I HAVE A TRAINER!! I have a trainer who not only is there every single time I ride my horse, she's training her at least 3-4 more days per week.
> 
> You want some advice that won't cost you $$$? SELL your horse and go buy one that doesn't need a trainer!!


Selling my horse would be giving up. Not only myself but on him which I will NEVER do.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

It wouldn't be giving up - It would be doing the horse a favour.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

My horse is miserable without me. I am not getting rid of him. Period. Besides, this has all been blown WAAAYYYY out of proportion. This is no huge problem. It is a small one. I just get stressed easily. I bet in a week I will have things straightened out. You wait and see.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/playing-hero-when-stick-when-realize-50485/


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## SilverFox (Apr 12, 2010)

I like kmacdougall's analogy. My family has always said horses are a rich man's game. In part this is true. Horses cost money, period. There's no way around it. XD

I understand your desire to train your horse yourself. I too have gotten a horse that needed reworked. But this was a roping horse making a transition from "Let's run everywhere!" to "It's OK to just walk". But there where other problems too. It helps to understand the training your horse had previously had so that you know what he thinks he's supposed to do.

I'm kind of thinking he might be throwing his head up to avoid the bit, not because he's in pain. It might be that he doesn't fully understand how to really give to bit pressure. If a Racing Standardbred leans on their bit the whole race then he really isn't softening and giving to the bit. Just bracing against it. My appy was like this when I got him. He always traveled with his head up in the air, hollowing out his back. We tryed other bits. Never worked, he was the same in all of them. He was never taught to give to the pressure. So we just restarted him. He is now yielding and breaking at the pole like he should when bit pressure is applied. 

I agree that your horse is a work in progress. No horse is truley broke in 30 days. His acting up in the field could just be him being a horse. Even a well trained horse has his moments. Could it be possible the field is a place that you usually canter. If so he may just be anticipating the chance for a run. I've seen allot of people who have a problem like that. They usually trot or canter in the same spot when they ride. The next time they are at this spot the horse remembers and gets exited. Sometimes we create our own problems in our horses. 

I recommend a book called Retraining: Teaching new skills to previously trained horses. Here is a link where you can get it used on Amazon. 
Amazon.com: Retraining: Teaching New Skills to Previously Trained Horses (9780876052853): Sharon B. Smith: Books

This book has a section on Retraining the driving horse to riding which should be helpful, also a dressage section. Which is great for any horse. I hope you find this book as useful as I have.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> I like kmacdougall's analogy. My family has always said horses are a rich man's game. In part this is true. Horses cost money, period. There's no way around it. XD
> 
> I understand your desire to train your horse yourself. I too have gotten a horse that needed reworked. But this was a roping horse making a transition from "Let's run everywhere!" to "It's OK to just walk". But there where other problems too. It helps to understand the training your horse had previously had so that you know what he thinks he's supposed to do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great advice! It really does help to understand his past career. I do a lot of running in the field with him so that could be. He gives to the bit everywhere else so I guess he needs more work in the field. I will see if I can find the book @ the library or the bookstore. If not, I will just get it online.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

By the way, I'm not saying that you should sell your horse, but it's an important thread to read. I do strongly suggest working with a trainer. Others have given good advice on this thread, I hope you heed it


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Recognizing your limitations is not giving up.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> ^^White Foot, if her parents were not willing to pay for training, it probably would have been in their best interests to just get her a dog.
> 
> If the horse doesn't need training, you usually do.


:lol: Must be nice to have parents that pay for everything! Sorry but the real world doesn't work like that. My parents couldn't afford training to save their lives, I asked them for it but my father told me, "he's your horse, you train him." You see I come from a long line of blue collar workers, not some rich family that could afford to give me whatever I wanted. 

I was LUCKY enough to have two horses, I wasn't about to throw a fit and tell my father to get rid of my horses and instead buy me a dog... My father worked very, very, hard to try and keep me happy by keeping the horses, he could scrape up enough for feed, and vet care. Once I got a job I paid for everything, and I was LUCKY enough to be able to work my training off. I'm lucky enough right now to be doing an intern with a well known trainer and get my horse trained at the same time. 

If the OP is willing to work for it, she will get it. To everyone who's telling her to get a job, you need a car for a job. And you need money for a car! It wasn't until I got my car that I could actually get a stable job. It sucks, but life is hard and not everything is going to be handed to you.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

Actually, I had many jobs before I ever had a car....and, no, I did not live in an area with public transportation (lol - yeah, in a town of 800 - we didn't even have a caution light).


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

I am having a friend come out and help me with the horse. YES, she is a trainer


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

I had a few jobs like stacking fire wood and racking the yard, but $20 isn't going to get you crap these days. Wait, that could possibly get you 10 mins of a trainer.. xD

Good, let us know how the training goes!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

White Foot said:


> :lol: Must be nice to have parents that pay for everything! Sorry but the real world doesn't work like that. My parents couldn't afford training to save their lives, I asked them for it but my father told me, "he's your horse, you train him." You see I come from a long line of blue collar workers, not some rich family that could afford to give me whatever I wanted.
> 
> I was LUCKY enough to have two horses, I wasn't about to throw a fit and tell my father to get rid of my horses and instead buy me a dog... My father worked very, very, hard to try and keep me happy by keeping the horses, he could scrape up enough for feed, and vet care. Once I got a job I paid for everything, and I was LUCKY enough to be able to work my training off. I'm lucky enough right now to be doing an intern with a well known trainer and get my horse trained at the same time.
> 
> If the OP is willing to work for it, she will get it. To everyone who's telling her to get a job, you need a car for a job. And you need money for a car! It wasn't until I got my car that I could actually get a stable job. It sucks, but life is hard and not everything is going to be handed to you.


That is what my Papa did. He said "you do the work and I will pay for him". He paid the expenses but handed me the reins


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

White Foot said:


> I had a few jobs like stacking fire wood and racking the yard, but $20 isn't going to get you crap these days. Wait, that could possibly get you 10 mins of a trainer.. xD
> 
> Good, let us know how the training goes!


You are really putting out some good wisdom and I really do appreciate that. My friend/ trainer isnt charging me anything. She looked at this thread and really was appalled at the ppl who mentioned selling him. She has her own OTTSB and she trained him so this is really good


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> You are really putting out some good wisdom and I really do appreciate that.


So are the other people posting who just don't happen to be pandering to you.


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## Tymer (Dec 28, 2009)

This post is coming from a 16 year old with a bit of training experience and only a lesson horse to ride.

Note: During this I use the term "green" a lot. I do not mean "inexperienced", I am trying to say "needs training."

I believed that my horse was "beautifully trained, she just has her moments, her days, her 3 day spans..." and many agreed with me. Then someone outright told me "She is green. She needs tons of work and is nowhere near consistent enough to be called fully trained." 
Now, I have realized that she really is green. That when I ride her I have to be super consistent and never change my methods on her. Whenever someone else rides her, I can tell because of the ways she's acting. Yes, I could have someone inexperienced ride her at a walk and a trot, maybe a canter if I warned them of her stupidity at some things at that gait. 
She is my baby but I have to accept that she needs to be trained and I know I cannot do that on my own. I highly recommend a trainer but that seems to be an issue. 
My recommendation? First, accept that your horse is green. A horse that cannot be somewhat easily controlled anywhere at any gait is green. Second, look into every possible option for getting a a trainer. Third, do some ground work and bending work and such. You seem to need that.

This story has nothing to do with horses but all to do with training. My dog happens to be very...."green." He will act vicious around other dogs but has never hurt a dog or severely hurt anyone other than me (usually I had it coming) and has issues with running away. I read a million websites and watched Victoria Stillwell on TV. He's definately better but he's still green. Professional trainers are just _the way to go_ and there's no avoiding that. I push you to look for any little possible loophole to get any training in ever. Even if you can't get training every week or even every few weeks, you can learn techniques to help make flying leaps on your own. 

I wish you luck with your boy.


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

wild_spot said:


> So are the other people posting who just don't happen to be pandering to you.


^^ agreed.


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## jagman6201 (Mar 13, 2009)

Ok, you do not have the money to afford a trainer at this time. 

May I ask though, are you currently saving up for one? Because, you should--even if this problem resolves itself there will always be another issue lined right up behind it. 

I am 19 years old and got my first and only horse when I was 15. I am not discouraged to say that he was a well trained 4-year-old that had been taught very well by his breeders/previous owner and it was ME as the inexperienced new owner who blew up his brain and made it melt out his ears the first six months or so. Because I rode him in a saddle that was too narrow and that I wasn't a balanced enough rider (but I would say I "knew the basics" at that point in time) to understand how to work though Jag's reoccurring problem. I did not have a job, car, or "rich-parents" and when I turned to these types of forum for help--guess what, the opinion hasn't changed. You need professional help to LEARN how to train a horse; it doesn't just come to you magically and you are only further hurting your horse by refusing to admit your limitations. 

I understand you don't have $200 to just spend on a trainer out of the blue, but guess what; $200 is really that difficult to raise if you set your mind to it--even as a 16-year-old. I was that age when I finally gritted my teeth and admitted I need help and need to come up with money. You know how long it took to raise over $300? Two weeks. I babysat at nights, offered to mow lawns and one of the biggest money makers was camped out in a busy park and sold lemonade to thirsty-park goers. Did that with a friend for one weekend and worked from 9am-4pm and raised over $150 in two days selling cups for $.50.

Another poster mentioned making $20 a day doesn't get you much--but think about it. If you worked that for 5 days a week, you've got $100 right there. Do that for three weeks, now you got $300. It's not fun, but you've got to grow up and accept that things aren't free and that you're going to have to shell out some time to raise money to make your horse happier and and ultimately you happier. 

So, seeing as I was in your situation once and can relate--I don't sympathize with you're "I have no money to training is not an option" excuse. 

While I don't agree that because you cannot currently afford a trainer means you shouldn't own this horse; I will say that if you're refusing to get a trainer because you don't want to raise the money and spend it that you shouldn't own a horse--there's a big difference between can't and won't, and from how you make it sound, you just don't want to because it takes time and effort.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Tymer said:


> This post is coming from a 16 year old with a bit of training experience and only a lesson horse to ride.
> 
> Note: During this I use the term "green" a lot. I do not mean "inexperienced", I am trying to say "needs training."
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Jag6201 said:


> Ok, you do not have the money to afford a trainer at this time.
> 
> May I ask though, are you currently saving up for one? Because, you should--even if this problem resolves itself there will always be another issue lined right up behind it.
> 
> ...


I now have a trainer. My friend is a trainer and she offeres to come and work with me and Comet for free


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

White Foot said:


> :lol: Must be nice to have parents that pay for everything! Sorry but the real world doesn't work like that. My parents couldn't afford training to save their lives, I asked them for it but my father told me, "he's your horse, you train him." You see I come from a long line of blue collar workers, not some rich family that could afford to give me whatever I wanted.
> 
> I was LUCKY enough to have two horses, I wasn't about to throw a fit and tell my father to get rid of my horses and instead buy me a dog... My father worked very, very, hard to try and keep me happy by keeping the horses, he could scrape up enough for feed, and vet care. Once I got a job I paid for everything, and I was LUCKY enough to be able to work my training off. I'm lucky enough right now to be doing an intern with a well known trainer and get my horse trained at the same time.
> 
> If the OP is willing to work for it, she will get it. To everyone who's telling her to get a job, you need a car for a job. And you need money for a car! It wasn't until I got my car that I could actually get a stable job. It sucks, but life is hard and not everything is going to be handed to you.


I got a job that was within walking distance of my house when I was 16. When I was 17, I had a job that was down the street from me. When I was 18, I made a down payment on a car from the money I had saved from my first two jobs. That car has taken me to my third job and soon to be fourth job, which allows me to pay for everything that I need for my horse, it allowed me to buy my horse in the first place. 

I didn't expect my parents to take care of me, I made things happen for myself. If this girl is perfectly content to sit on her excuse that she is a kid and can't get a job, then her parents need to support her and all of her endeavors like the kid she is. I work off my board to make things cheaper for me, and pay for gas, my car insurance (i bought it, so no payments), and if all goes well I'll be moving out soon. 

She has two working arms and two working legs (I'm assuming) so there is no reason that she can't find a job doing something somewhere. You just have to want it bad enough.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

My problem has been solved so I am officially DONE with this thread


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## WickednSpurs (Apr 13, 2010)

I am also a proud owner of an OTTB! My horse Kopenhagen came to me having only been off the track for about 3 months and he is absolutely wonderful in every way!

When Koppy came to me I also noticed a lot of 'Chewing on the Bit' and like the other's I assumed his teeth needed to be floated....so I did that. It didn't help. Turns out is a nervous habit he has developed throughout his years of racing. He relaxs at times and I rarely notice the chewing on the bit...but anytime he is taken out of his element he gets down to business chewing on the bit. Since that is the only sign he ever gives as being a little nervous I let it go. Sure its not that attractive but neither is chewing on your fingernails which a lot of us do! So I would recommend getting his teeth floated but just be aware it may not solve the problem. It may be your horse's way of dealing with stress and really there are much worse ways a horse could act out. So don't be too picky and just relax a little so your horse can relax a little as well.

Good Luck!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

WickednSpurs said:


> I am also a proud owner of an OTTB! My horse Kopenhagen came to me having only been off the track for about 3 months and he is absolutely wonderful in every way!
> 
> When Koppy came to me I also noticed a lot of 'Chewing on the Bit' and like the other's I assumed his teeth needed to be floated....so I did that. It didn't help. Turns out is a nervous habit he has developed throughout his years of racing. He relaxs at times and I rarely notice the chewing on the bit...but anytime he is taken out of his element he gets down to business chewing on the bit. Since that is the only sign he ever gives as being a little nervous I let it go. Sure its not that attractive but neither is chewing on your fingernails which a lot of us do! So I would recommend getting his teeth floated but just be aware it may not solve the problem. It may be your horse's way of dealing with stress and really there are much worse ways a horse could act out. So don't be too picky and just relax a little so your horse can relax a little as well.
> 
> Good Luck!


thanks  It cant be his teeth tho, he just had em done..........


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## SilverFox (Apr 12, 2010)

LOL I had a feeling you did. Run in the field that is. Usually it can be fixed by always keeping your horse guessing as to what you are going to do when you are in the field. You can work on transitions, circles and serpentines, figure eights. If he gets antsy expecting a run, don't give in. Ride him through it and ignore it. Make him walk. Don't trot or cater in the same spot all the time. Horses get used to it and begin to expect it. "Ohh the hill...we always cater up the hill!" Then one day you want to walk up the hill. So you have to deal with a dancing horse because he wants to bolt up the hill while you do not. 

Some horses can go as far a pitching a huge fit because they want to run in was they have come to know as the "canter spot". I know a woman who always let her horses run up hills. Then when she didn't they would buck and rear because she never told them different. Then one day her horse pitched her off in one of his spoiled tantrums, because she wouldn't let him "charge the hill". Remember every time you are with your horse you are training it. Even though you might not realize it. 

Keep your pleasure rides interesting for them. If you always ride in the same spot they can become sour, and unwilling to go anywhere else. We have an elderly POA who gets grumpy if you ride the same route 2 days in a row. XD He gets bored with it. 

I remember you mentioning your horse was impatient when standing. There are a few things you can do. While out riding practice stopping and just stand there. Look around, enjoy the scenery etc. If he jigs, or paws thats fine. Although with my horses when they start pawing I usually take a foot out of the stirrup and give them a smart tap on the shoulder they are using to paw, with the side of my foot hard enough to get the message across. Just hold on if you decide to do this, it does move your balance off a bit and some horses may over react the first time. You can add a verbal correction such as "Hey" or "No" with it. Eventually the word alone will be enough to make them stop pawing.

For better results it is great to do this while you are on a longish ride or have been working him. When he's worked up a good sweat and all the fresh is out of him. He will learn to appreciate the little breaks and will eventually stand quietly. 

Also if he is impatient while standing tied. This is kind of an ol' cowboy trick. We always called it the "patience post". Tied him up and let him stand for about an hour. Use common sense with this one. Especially for a horse that is a pain at the hitching rail. You want to tie him somewhere where he can't get into trouble. A sturdy round post is usually the best. A post along a fence is good too (as long as it is a fence he can't get caught up in), cross ties are awesome. Whatever you tie him to make sure it is strong enough that it won't break or that he can't pull it up or out should he try to fight the post. (some will)

Always tie him with a quick release knot in case of trouble. Don't tie him in direct sun if its hot out. Do this whenever you have time to go back and check on him once in awhile to make sure he hasn't gotten in trouble, until his attitude towards standing improves. You can leave him tied for longer than an hour if you choose as long as he won't stand out there and bake. Just remember not to forget about him.


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## Becca93 (Jan 22, 2009)

I feel slightly ashamed that you are 16, because I'm 16.... and I acted like that when I was 13.

You're problem has not been solved. You are *working *towards solving it. 

You need to either 1. Find a job or a source of funds because turning your nose up at peoples opinions because you have no money is ridiculous if you own a horse and 2. You cannot come here asking for help/advice/feedback and cut down/ignore every response you get because it wasnt what you wanted to hear. 

I hope you work out your issues.


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> I got a job that was within walking distance of my house when I was 16. When I was 17, I had a job that was down the street from me. When I was 18, I made a down payment on a car from the money I had saved from my first two jobs. That car has taken me to my third job and soon to be fourth job, which allows me to pay for everything that I need for my horse, it allowed me to buy my horse in the first place.
> 
> I didn't expect my parents to take care of me, I made things happen for myself. If this girl is perfectly content to sit on her excuse that she is a kid and can't get a job, then her parents need to support her and all of her endeavors like the kid she is. I work off my board to make things cheaper for me, and pay for gas, my car insurance (i bought it, so no payments), and if all goes well I'll be moving out soon.
> 
> She has two working arms and two working legs (I'm assuming) so there is no reason that she can't find a job doing something somewhere. You just have to want it bad enough.


I see your point.

Sliverfox has great advice, as well as others. Good luck please update me, I'd love to hear what happened during the training session.


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## AztecBaby (Mar 19, 2009)

How old's your "trainer friend", 12?


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## White Foot (Jun 4, 2009)

AztecBaby said:


> How old's your "trainer friend", 12?


Judging from that insult that seems to be about your age. :lol:


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## AztecBaby (Mar 19, 2009)

Nah, kinda close though ;P only 3 years my minor.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

This thread is a perfect example of where there is a will there is a way. And where there is a want and now will there are a long list of excuses. White Foot I am surprised that after all the work you did to get where you wanted to get when you did not have means you are so willing to justify the OPs excuses.

$20 for raking leaves may only be $20, but if you rake leaves for several people you are up to $60. If you do a good job you will get other $20 jobs. Each $20 job adding on will make the pile of money larger. 
It is scary to hear people (teens) say that working for $20 is not worth it. 

And you for sure do not need a car to get a job. Again, where there is a will there is a way. Ride a bike. Yes, so what if you have to leave your house an hour before you shift to make it to work on time. To me it seems like it is worth it. 

OP, you talk about having horses, as in more than one. Why not sell one or two or however many and use that money to afford a trainer?

And a question - if you can not afford a trainer what highly skilled professional trainer told you to use the bit and nose band you are using?


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> My problem has been solved so I am officially DONE with this thread


Shesh, I sure wish I could solve my problems by posting threads and NOT listening to the advice I asked for.



Horseychick94 said:


> thanks  It cant be his teeth tho, he just had em done..........


That doesn't mean it's not possible his teeth are bothering him...


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> LOL I had a feeling you did. Run in the field that is. Usually it can be fixed by always keeping your horse guessing as to what you are going to do when you are in the field. You can work on transitions, circles and serpentines, figure eights. If he gets antsy expecting a run, don't give in. Ride him through it and ignore it. Make him walk. Don't trot or cater in the same spot all the time. Horses get used to it and begin to expect it. "Ohh the hill...we always cater up the hill!" Then one day you want to walk up the hill. So you have to deal with a dancing horse because he wants to bolt up the hill while you do not.
> 
> Some horses can go as far a pitching a huge fit because they want to run in was they have come to know as the "canter spot". I know a woman who always let her horses run up hills. Then when she didn't they would buck and rear because she never told them different. Then one day her horse pitched her off in one of his spoiled tantrums, because she wouldn't let him "charge the hill". Remember every time you are with your horse you are training it. Even though you might not realize it.
> 
> ...


Nice advice, thanks!!!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

AztecBaby said:


> How old's your "trainer friend", 12?


If you are going to be rude, dont post here. Actually you are VERY wrong, she happens to be 33, has had experience with standardbreds, and trains horses herself


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

kmdstar said:


> Shesh, I sure wish I could solve my problems by posting threads and NOT listening to the advice I asked for.
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean it's not possible his teeth are bothering him...


I did listen to the advice. I am just eliminating the factors that could not be possible


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> I did listen to the advice. I am just eliminating the factors that could not be possible


So all the factors that involve spending money are simply...impossible? Hm.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Alwaysbehind said:


> OP, you talk about having horses, as in more than one. Why not sell one or two or however many and use that money to afford a trainer?
> 
> 1) I only have 2 horses. A Standardbred and a Mini companion for him. and 2) My parents would NEVER let me sell either one or both of them.
> 
> And a question - if you can not afford a trainer what highly skilled professional trainer told you to use the bit and nose band you are using?


 I talked to Heather Moffett who suggested the pelham and a friend who suggested the flash. Don't judge me, I am relatively new to owning horses and am very confused about some things


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

kmdstar said:


> So all the factors that involve spending money are simply...impossible? Hm.


OMG..... Why do you feel like ramming my head up against a wall????? What the hack do you want from me?


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> I talked to Heather Moffett who suggested the pelham and a friend who suggested the flash. Don't judge me, *I am relatively new to owning horses and am very confused about some things*


That is all the more reason to ask for advice and LISTEN to the advice you are given from EXPERIENCED horse people! :shock:


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> I talked to Heather Moffett who suggested the pelham and a friend who suggested the flash.


Have you talked to your trainer (Heather Moffett) about the problems you are having now? 



Horseychick94 said:


> Don't judge me, I am relatively new to owning horses and am very confused about some things


How is explaining that there are options for earning money if you really wanted to judging you? You have made it VERY clear you are not willing to lift a finger to earn money. I am not sure how you would like us to take that other than how it sounds.

And how can you go from saying 'I am new cut me some slack' to this?



Horseychick94 said:


> This horse IS trained.
> I trained him well and he can be ridden by even my 9 yr old cousin.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Ok, you really want to know why I dont want to get a job? Here it is. I am not emotionally ready for it. You know why? I had my childhood, a vital part of my life, taken away. I was raped by my own father from when I was 8 until I was 13. A child's vital brain and emotional growth is from ages 0 to like 12. Mine was stunted. I am like an 11 yr old in the body of a 16 yr old because of the trauma. I really hate to get into my personal life with you guys but some of you have pushed me to by breaking point. I now have a trainer so stop drilling me about not having one or not having a job. I am not emotionally ready for a job at all. I am trying to catch up with the rest of my peers and am having great difficulty with it. Thank you for all of the great advice.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I am sorry to hear about the abuse you suffered. It is sad. But I do not see how it is applies to this situation. You being snarky to anyone who gives advice you do not like. You being unwilling to listen to good advice, etc. 

Past abuse (of the owner) is not an excuse to ignore reality in a horse training situation.

And being only 11yo mentally does not mean you can not work. Raking leaves can be done by an 11yo. Mowing lawns can be done by an 11yo. A kid with a mission can get a lot accomplished.

There becomes a time in our lives when we stop being a victim to our circumstances and start making our own roads.


Glad to hear you got a trainer.


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## PoohLP (Jan 15, 2009)

This forum really has become a bit of a pile on. I found it especially sad that even after the op said she'd found a trainer friend, people kept piling on her and insulting this person they knew nothing about.

It sounds like the op is in a tough situation, but trying hard to find ways to work through it. She should get props for that. My suggestion is to read everything you can and any time and way you can get friends and others you know in the horsey world to help, take advantage of that. If you can put the money togeter th have a lesson every couple months, just so you and your horse can work through any problems that pop up, that will enrich your riding and bond even more.

And seriously people, telling a kid to sell her horse when she is able to feed it, care for it and pay it's vet bills because she has a couple issues she needs to work thorugh with her trail horse and can't afford a lot of training is kind of harsh. At least give her credit for taking the initiative to go looking for advice and, for those who read her replies, she does actually thank people for constructive ideas they have given.

To the op, best of luck with your trainer friend. I look forward to hearing how it goes. I've been working with a horse that has some similar habits. It's taken some time and some help and a lot of patience, but I'm starting to see real progress now and it is so worth it when you know you've accomplished something. Just take advantage of all the help you can get and find every source of knowledge you can. 

I'd suggest this flame be closed unless anyone else has something constructive to add - by which I mean not insults against trainers we know nothing about or other personal attacks against the op.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## romargrey (Apr 11, 2010)

We are in the process of rehabing a ottb tb mare. she has lots of issues with behavior or so it seemed. this gal has a very arthritic right hock and was in a lot of pain giving us symptoms of compensation leading to swollen fetlocks, back pain, shoulder issues, wanting to go sideways instead of forward when going to the left on some days and then to the right others. People called her a moody mare . Well thats not what it was at all. 
Agree that tack may be the issue but its hard to fit a horse who might be trying to tell you he is in pain. It may fit him well but when he moves because he might be compensating, it may restrict him from being able to carry himself well. 
Dont misinterpret his protests or what you perceive as "bad/bold or annoying" as being naughty but take them all to mean he is trying to talk to you and tell you something is wrong!
Can your horse balance himself in a ring work being lunged?
does he take a normal stride or does he have a shorter stride from front to back or on his right side compared to his left side? does he carry his head funny to one side? Have you lunged him with tack and watch him move while not carrying a rider? was he balanced? Are his feet the same size or are they wearing differently? does he have old splints on his legs limiting the excursion of his tendon contraction and relaxation? The symptoms you are experiencing are likely due to a horse with joint or malalignment issues. get him orthopedically checked. He may not be muscled evenly and therefore can't move symmetrically. study his behaviors with tack and without on a lunge but don't make the circle too small because you need to watch movement not constant bend . Get a video of him going and post it, ask for feedback on what people are seeing and you might be surprised what another eye can do for you that you might not be aware of.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

PoohLP said:


> This forum really has become a bit of a pile on. I found it especially sad that even after the op said she'd found a trainer friend, people kept piling on her and insulting this person they knew nothing about.
> 
> It sounds like the op is in a tough situation, but trying hard to find ways to work through it. She should get props for that. My suggestion is to read everything you can and any time and way you can get friends and others you know in the horsey world to help, take advantage of that. If you can put the money togeter th have a lesson every couple months, just so you and your horse can work through any problems that pop up, that will enrich your riding and bond even more.
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

romargrey said:


> We are in the process of rehabing a ottb tb mare. she has lots of issues with behavior or so it seemed. this gal has a very arthritic right hock and was in a lot of pain giving us symptoms of compensation leading to swollen fetlocks, back pain, shoulder issues, wanting to go sideways instead of forward when going to the left on some days and then to the right others. People called her a moody mare . Well thats not what it was at all.
> Agree that tack may be the issue but its hard to fit a horse who might be trying to tell you he is in pain. It may fit him well but when he moves because he might be compensating, it may restrict him from being able to carry himself well.
> Dont misinterpret his protests or what you perceive as "bad/bold or annoying" as being naughty but take them all to mean he is trying to talk to you and tell you something is wrong!
> Can your horse balance himself in a ring work being lunged?
> does he take a normal stride or does he have a shorter stride from front to back or on his right side compared to his left side? does he carry his head funny to one side? Have you lunged him with tack and watch him move while not carrying a rider? was he balanced? Are his feet the same size or are they wearing differently? does he have old splints on his legs limiting the excursion of his tendon contraction and relaxation? The symptoms you are experiencing are likely due to a horse with joint or malalignment issues. get him orthopedically checked. He may not be muscled evenly and therefore can't move symmetrically. study his behaviors with tack and without on a lunge but don't make the circle too small because you need to watch movement not constant bend . Get a video of him going and post it, ask for feedback on what people are seeing and you might be surprised what another eye can do for you that you might not be aware of.


the vet said that his roach back needed to be checked by a chiro. because it might be misaligned. That might be it. He has a sticky stifle if that has anything to do with balance. His hooves are evenly worn and he is perfectly balanced on the lunge. hmmmmm.....ill see into a chiro.:?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Again... if a horse is in pain, it can be manifested as behavioral issues.... which is why I've said from the get-go to make sure the horse isn't in pain. 
Get the chiro out, and get a saddle fitter out. If the saddle is hurting him, then no amount of training is going to help.


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## speedy da fish (May 7, 2009)

I dont know why anyone would _need _a double bit for trails. Personally I use a egg-butt snaffle and a flash (because my horse turns his bit over). Maybe he chews his bit because he is content (my horse does that, he loves his bit). as for the not slowing down thing its probably because he is off the track, he need some training before you can take him out safely. he needs to learn what you mean by your commands, he probably trying his best!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

speedy da fish said:


> I dont know why anyone would _need _a double bit for trails. Personally I use a egg-butt snaffle and a flash (because my horse turns his bit over). Maybe he chews his bit because he is content (my horse does that, he loves his bit). as for the not slowing down thing its probably because he is off the track, he need some training before you can take him out safely. he needs to learn what you mean by your commands, he probably trying his best!


He likes to flip his bit upside down, too lol :lol:


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## Lis (Oct 29, 2009)

Glad you've got a trainer who's willing to work with you. With regular teaching you'll probably find your problems are getting better. Good luck with him and your trainer for the future.


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## SeWHC (Jul 1, 2009)

horselover1428 said:


> i have a 21 year old horse that i recently got. He has had the same owner all his life and she needed a good home for him because she was getting too old to ride him. He has been trained by numerous professionals and i have rode him at her indoor arena several times before we brought him home. The first couple times i rode him when we got him home went great.....but now he won't turn, won't walk into certain pastures and will go into a trot without me telling him. He has also broke into a canter when we are in a trot. He was trained with spurs and i use them too.....but it doesn't help. Now if i want to turn i have to stop him first and did my leg/spur in his side, and yank on the reins to get him to go, and sometimes he still wont......i'm not sure why he does this and if anybody has any advice for me...please help.....like you i am losing my patience with him but i hate to because he is such a great and gentle horse.



what?!?!


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## PechosGoldenChance (Aug 23, 2009)

horselover1428: The problem here, hun is you. You're letting him get away with it pretty much. He won't turn because he doesn't want to and you, obviously aren't reinforcing enough. Use all of your aids while trying to get him to turn. This includes your voice (clucking), your legs *without *spurs (kick, kick, kick) and do it as hard as you can to get the point across, your hands (keep pressure on the rein to whichever side it is you want to turn and don't let up until he does it and when he does it keep doing circles to that side for a little bit, your seat (lean to the side you want to go, and you can exaggerate here if needed). 
As for him not wanting to go into a certain pasture...why? Always ask yourself I wonder why he/she does this, or did that, or why they don't want to do this, or why they don't like this, or why the like that. My guess is he doesn't want to go in there, simply because he doesn't want to. Whether that be because he's not comfortable going in there, scared, etc. If you want to go in there _you _make him go in there. If you have to, get off, walk him in there, and when you're in there, get back on. Either way, how have you dealt with him not wanting to go in that certain pasture(s)? That will better help me/us figure out what you should do. 
As for him busting into a canter/trot, this is simple. *Don't let him! *If you do not want him to break into anything other than the gait he's in now, don't let him. Also, don't constantly pull on both reins, just check him with one, and tell him easy, or no. 

Horseychick: Good for you, for getting a trainer!! Hope all goes well. So sorry to hear about your past life, mine wasn't the best either. A little advice, don't let the past hold you back from your future. Just remember, you can't change the past no matter what, the only thing you can do is make the best out of your future and do what is right and best for you. Don't let anything or anyone get in your way, you chose the path you lead, just remeber that. You make your own decisions for your life and no one else does. It is your life, do what you want. Things will not get easier but they sure can get better, and when you do get a job, you will see what I mean. The first time you get your first paycheck because of all the hard work you did for someone, it feels really good and exhillarating! I wish the best of luck to you and whatever it is you do!!


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## Becca93 (Jan 22, 2009)

If you aren't mentally ready for a job, which I completely understand considering your horrible circumstances, it is probably a good thing that you've got a trainer because you probably weren't emotionally/mentally ready to train a green horse.

Everybody has issues, some more draining than others, but whether you are a 11 year old in a 16year old body, or a 16year old in a 16 year old body, this is life and this is the real world. You can't come to us for advice and then turn around and dismiss advice for reasons unknown to us. It doesn't work like that. If you come here for advice people with more experience and knowledge than you will tell you what they believe you need. If money is an issue, you need to state from the state, "I've got very limited funds" or something similar, rather than cutting down a trainer as a possible solution. 

Horses cost money, but not everyone just has the money to splash it everywhere on whatever they want. However horses are hard work and sometimes the things you have to do in order to keep them are hard.


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

Becca93 said:


> If you aren't mentally ready for a job, which I completely understand considering your horrible circumstances, it is probably a good thing that you've got a trainer because you probably weren't emotionally/mentally ready to train a green horse.
> 
> Everybody has issues, some more draining than others, but whether you are a 11 year old in a 16year old body, or a 16year old in a 16 year old body, this is life and this is the real world. You can't come to us for advice and then turn around and dismiss advice for reasons unknown to us. It doesn't work like that. If you come here for advice people with more experience and knowledge than you will tell you what they believe you need. If money is an issue, you need to state from the state, "I've got very limited funds" or something similar, rather than cutting down a trainer as a possible solution.
> 
> Horses cost money, but not everyone just has the money to splash it everywhere on whatever they want. However horses are hard work and sometimes the things you have to do in order to keep them are hard.


What she said.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

PechosGoldenChance said:


> horselover1428: The problem here, hun is you. You're letting him get away with it pretty much. He won't turn because he doesn't want to and you, obviously aren't reinforcing enough. Use all of your aids while trying to get him to turn. This includes your voice (clucking), your legs *without *spurs (kick, kick, kick) and do it as hard as you can to get the point across, your hands (keep pressure on the rein to whichever side it is you want to turn and don't let up until he does it and when he does it keep doing circles to that side for a little bit, your seat (lean to the side you want to go, and you can exaggerate here if needed).
> As for him not wanting to go into a certain pasture...why? Always ask yourself I wonder why he/she does this, or did that, or why they don't want to do this, or why they don't like this, or why the like that. My guess is he doesn't want to go in there, simply because he doesn't want to. Whether that be because he's not comfortable going in there, scared, etc. If you want to go in there _you _make him go in there. If you have to, get off, walk him in there, and when you're in there, get back on. Either way, how have you dealt with him not wanting to go in that certain pasture(s)? That will better help me/us figure out what you should do.
> As for him busting into a canter/trot, this is simple. *Don't let him! *If you do not want him to break into anything other than the gait he's in now, don't let him. Also, don't constantly pull on both reins, just check him with one, and tell him easy, or no.
> 
> Horseychick: Good for you, for getting a trainer!! Hope all goes well. So sorry to hear about your past life, mine wasn't the best either. A little advice, don't let the past hold you back from your future. Just remember, you can't change the past no matter what, the only thing you can do is make the best out of your future and do what is right and best for you. Don't let anything or anyone get in your way, you chose the path you lead, just remeber that. You make your own decisions for your life and no one else does. It is your life, do what you want. Things will not get easier but they sure can get better, and when you do get a job, you will see what I mean. The first time you get your first paycheck because of all the hard work you did for someone, it feels really good and exhillarating! I wish the best of luck to you and whatever it is you do!!


Awwww, thanks!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Becca93 said:


> If you aren't mentally ready for a job, which I completely understand considering your horrible circumstances, it is probably a good thing that you've got a trainer because you probably weren't emotionally/mentally ready to train a green horse.
> 
> Everybody has issues, some more draining than others, but whether you are a 11 year old in a 16year old body, or a 16year old in a 16 year old body, this is life and this is the real world. You can't come to us for advice and then turn around and dismiss advice for reasons unknown to us. It doesn't work like that. If you come here for advice people with more experience and knowledge than you will tell you what they believe you need. If money is an issue, you need to state from the state, "I've got very limited funds" or something similar, rather than cutting down a trainer as a possible solution.
> 
> Horses cost money, but not everyone just has the money to splash it everywhere on whatever they want. However horses are hard work and sometimes the things you have to do in order to keep them are hard.


True, I should have stated that :hide:


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

I tried lunging my horse before I rode yesterday and he rode great other than a couple spooks. He will stop in a dime now except when trotting downhill( it takes him a while.) He does need work on balance.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

JustDressageIt said:


> I like this bit, but not for a horse that already chews. The copper roller in the middle there encourages a horse to play with the bit - not something you want for an already mouthy horse. The price makes me think that it might not be the best quality either.
> If you don't mind shelling out a bit for a bit (haha) here's a fantastic bit: Mikmar Bit Company
> (The Mikmar D-Ring Ergöm Lozenge Snaffle)
> The Cupreon will make the horse like the taste and foam, but won't encourage him to play or mouth the bit. I also like the idea of a bean link rather than a true french link.
> ...


Any other brands you would suggest? JW so I can shop around. I switched out my pelham for this but I think the ball puts too much localized pressure on his tongue.
JP Korsteel Full Cheek w/ Copper Ball Li and Full Cheek Bits | EQUESTRIAN COLLECTIONS.COM


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> Any other brands you would suggest? JW so I can shop around. I switched out my pelham for this but I think the ball puts too much localized pressure on his tongue.
> JP Korsteel Full Cheek w/ Copper Ball Li and Full Cheek Bits*|*EQUESTRIAN COLLECTIONS.COM


what about myler?


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## draftrider (Mar 31, 2010)

I read up to page 8.. but one thing I don't think was addressed was the fact that it sounds like this fellow is barn sour.

If your horse is barn sour, he will act up on the way home, or will refuse to leave. What you have to do is make it more difficult to be at home than out on a ride.

I would just go back to a simple d ring snaffle bit. Pick a spot in the pasture you want to go to. Head towards it. If he refuses, pull him into small circles. Stop, then head towards your intended spot. Everytime he acts up, circle him in tight circles, using one rein pulled down towards your knee. Go in circles in both directions. What this is going to do is tell the horse it takes more effort to act up and be disobedient than it does just to listen and go where you tell him to go.

Eventually he'll just give up and say "FINE" I'll go where you want me to. Its fairly simple, takes just a few lessons.


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

draftrider said:


> I read up to page 8.. but one thing I don't think was addressed was the fact that it sounds like this fellow is barn sour.
> 
> If your horse is barn sour, he will act up on the way home, or will refuse to leave. What you have to do is make it more difficult to be at home than out on a ride.
> 
> ...


Okay! Will try! Thanks!!!!


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

Speed Racer said:


> Thank you for the additional info, JDI. Very good points.
> 
> I dislike severe bits and flash nosebands, too. Control is all about correct _training_, not using harsh bits and clamping their mouths shut.
> 
> ...


Amen to that!


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## Ktibb (Mar 24, 2010)

Circling is a good suggestion. You can use it in many situations, including if he gets imapatient/distracted/paws the ground or won't slow down. 

Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard. 

He want's to paw & move his feet? You say "OK buddy, lets move 'em" and put his butt to work on some small circles. 

He wants to speed up? You say: "You can go as fast as you want to; in this little circle".

Remember if a horse is bolting on you (or feels like it's going to) it's always safer to use one rein and bend their head around till their nose is near your knee. Just be sure not to yank it around too quickley as it can throw them off balnce at faster gaits.

Good luck & sorry if I've repeated anything that has already been said (I only read a few pages)


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

I had a horse that used to stick his head in the air charge around and basically be a pain he was bitted in a pelhem one day in a bout of madness i decided to try a rubber french link...IT was AMAZING poor guy had been trying to tell me he weas over bitted its worth a try playing around with bits it can make a world of difference has he a small mouth? why dont you put a martingale on to help with his head? id also try put him in the field or lunge to take off that start vit of freshness!


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

MaggiStar said:


> I had a horse that used to stick his head in the air charge around and basically be a pain he was bitted in a pelhem one day in a bout of madness i decided to try a rubber french link...IT was AMAZING poor guy had been trying to tell me he weas over bitted its worth a try playing around with bits it can make a world of difference has he a small mouth? *why dont you put a martingale on to help with his head?* id also try put him in the field or lunge to take off that start vit of freshness!


That's only going to force his head down and cover up the issue, and more than likely as soon as the martingale comes off (you can't leave it on forever...) the issue will be there again. It would be better to just address the issue NOW instead of trying to cover it up, because you WILL have to deal with it eventually.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Hey, I couldn't resist putting my 2 cents worth in here since my favourite thing in the world is to re train ex racehorses. 

Your boy sounds to me like a perfectly normal horse off the track, they have two paces: Flat out and Stop. So when you ask them for other paces e.g. walk, trot, canter, they don't understand and become frustrated (evident as pawing the ground, tossing the head, swishing the tail).

First thing I would do with a horse off the track is turn them out to pasture for 6 months to allow them time to work all the high energy food and other additives out of their system. Allow them some time to recover from the high stress environment of racing (racing industry is very hard on horses and you need to be very aware of that).

When you bring them back in, please please please use a snaffle to begin with. If you start with something more harsh you will never bring them back from it and I assure you, you will not get them working nicely for you, they will simply work IN SPITE of you, there's a difference!

Make sure their food is composed of mostly fibre, watch how much protein you feed them as they are sensitive to high energy diets and will 'fizz up' overnight! This make take some time to figure out what works as each horse is different. Feel free to add multi vitamins such as magnesium, selenium, zinc, vitamin E to make up for lack of grains but make sure they are proportional.

Last piece of advice: Be patient! All his behaviours are very typical of an ex racehorse so don't be too concerned. However if you want a horse that you can ride without too much fuss, don't get a horse off the track. EVER. It could take another 6 months before he really adjusts to his new lifestyle and is happy to wait for you while you are talking to someone during your ride.

If all this sounds like a lot of work and time, it is. I only do it cos I love it! Once they are working nicely and well trained, I'm pretty much looking for the next newbie I can start with. Make sure you choose a horse carefully to suit your needs. 

Good luck!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

MaggiStar said:


> I had a horse that used to stick his head in the air charge around and basically be a pain he was bitted in a pelhem one day in a bout of madness i decided to try a rubber french link...IT was AMAZING poor guy had been trying to tell me he weas over bitted its worth a try playing around with bits it can make a world of difference has he a small mouth? why dont you put a martingale on to help with his head? id also try put him in the field or lunge to take off that start vit of freshness!


I switched my bits to my old one. JP Korsteel Full Cheek Copper Ball Link Snaffle Bit He would not like a mart and it would not work forever. I do not believe in gadgets to force my horse into position. It would not be fair to him but thanks for the suggestion. I have done the lunging and it has worked wonders. I think the problem is that he has been stir crazy. He has been penned up in a small dog fence this spring because the pasture was being fixed and has been in a small paddock all winter. In the spring and summer he is in a HUGE 3 acre pasture. The pasture is now fixed and he is in there now. He has been in there since 2 days ago. He has been a LOT better riding now. He seems more focused. He does still need work though. My trainer who I found out is charging $$ (mom decided to cover it this one time to see how it goes) is coming tuesday for an hour and a half. Thanks for the suggestions!!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

kmdstar said:


> That's only going to force his head down and cover up the issue, and more than likely as soon as the martingale comes off (you can't leave it on forever...) the issue will be there again. It would be better to just address the issue NOW instead of trying to cover it up, because you WILL have to deal with it eventually.


I agree 100%. Trainer is coming out Tuesday


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

sarahver said:


> Hey, I couldn't resist putting my 2 cents worth in here since my favourite thing in the world is to re train ex racehorses.
> 
> Your boy sounds to me like a perfectly normal horse off the track, they have two paces: Flat out and Stop. So when you ask them for other paces e.g. walk, trot, canter, they don't understand and become frustrated (evident as pawing the ground, tossing the head, swishing the tail).
> 
> ...


Thanks! I got him because I trained my mini and rehabbed her and I wanted my first BIG project lol. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE ADVICE!!!!! I will absorb it all and will check his feed


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## justsambam08 (Sep 26, 2009)

sarahver said:


> Hey, I couldn't resist putting my 2 cents worth in here since my favourite thing in the world is to re train ex racehorses.
> 
> Your boy sounds to me like a perfectly normal horse off the track, they have two paces: Flat out and Stop. So when you ask them for other paces e.g. walk, trot, canter, they don't understand and become frustrated (evident as pawing the ground, tossing the head, swishing the tail).


I have to completely disagree. Horses off the track know ALL of their gaits. They don't gallop to the starting gates, they walk. They aren't galloped at full speed during their morning work outs, they're trot/cantered to warm up, then hand galloped. They may not know leg cues, voice cues, etc and they may not at first be able to do them well with a rider on their backs because they are imbalanced, but they do know how to control their bodies to achieve these gaits. I do agree, just as with training any horse, not just OTT horses, you have to be patient.

Also, I believe horseychicks horse is a STB, so he was a cart horse in a previous life.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

justsambam08 said:


> I have to completely disagree. Horses off the track know ALL of their gaits. They don't gallop to the starting gates, they walk. They aren't galloped at full speed during their morning work outs, they're trot/cantered to warm up, then hand galloped.


This is a good point, I should clarify what I meant:

The two things that are DEVELOPED and ENCOURAGED in a race horse is how to gallop and making sure they pull up after a race. What else is _enforced_? It is true that they walk to the gates however when was the last time you saw a racehorse walking quietly to the gates and standing there patiently? In my experience it is walk, go sideways for a bit, trot if you can get away with it, canter on the spot for a while, rear up if you are particularly annoyed with the slow pace. 

During workouts, sure they trot but what is the trot leading up to? Hand gallop. What is the canter leading to? Hand gallop. Horses are smart and know what to expect, meaning they associate their paces with leading up to a high energy pace, opposite to what we often want them to do in general riding. Just takes time to undo the association with the two.

Sorry for poor wording


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

OP, I'm glad you have a trainer helping you. I'm not going to say that a teenager can't train a horse because I am watching one do it right now, but she is definitely one of the exceptions. I work with teenagers all day, every day. I know what they are capable of. I have some serious cowgirls in my classes; girls who have been raised around horses, who have been barrel racing since they were 4 and who's parents train horses for a living, and most of them are not capable of the specialized training that your horse needs. 

The teenager I mentioned at the beginning is one of the most knowlegable horse-women I've met. She is currently training her 5 year old Paint gelding. She's been riding him for a year, but she's still training (and probably will be for his life)...The key is that she trains WITH a trainer. She is riding the horse, she is doing the work, yet she has a professional (who by the way, seeks help from other professionals all the time) guiding her. I think a true horse trainer is never done learning, just as every ride is essentially a training session. 

A teenager who admittedly doesn't have a ton of experience should NOT be discounted as capable of training/retraining a horse, but that same teenager should never think that they can do it themselves, or that the job is ever finished. I train dogs. My dad trains dogs and has all of my life. When I was faced with a particularly challenging dog, I in no way thought I could do it myself. I did come to a forum like this for suggestions, and I had a professional trainer friend on speed dial and spoke with him regularly...I also took my dog to his facility once a week for mentoring. I conquered that battle, but I am not afraid to admit that the next dog will also challenge me and I'll probably need help.

I think the key is that when you ask for help you may not like what you're going to get told, but more often than not, what you don't want to hear is exactly what you need to hear. 

OP, I wish you the best of luck. I hope your challenges are met, and you and your horse become a great team, but please don't ask for help and suggestions, then get upset when you don't hear what you want to hear.


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## kmdstar (Nov 17, 2009)

Horseychick94 said:


> I agree 100%. Trainer is coming out Tuesday


I'm very happy that you agree because far too many people think the quick fix is a good idea. Good luck with the trainer, keep us posted!


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

justsambam08 said:


> I have to completely disagree. Horses off the track know ALL of their gaits. They don't gallop to the starting gates, they walk. They aren't galloped at full speed during their morning work outs, they're trot/cantered to warm up, then hand galloped. They may not know leg cues, voice cues, etc and they may not at first be able to do them well with a rider on their backs because they are imbalanced, but they do know how to control their bodies to achieve these gaits. I do agree, just as with training any horse, not just OTT horses, you have to be patient.
> 
> Also, I believe horseychicks horse is a STB, so he was a cart horse in a previous life.


True. my horse was a pacer and still does occasionally but I correct him


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## Horseychick94 (Nov 19, 2009)

kmdstar said:


> I'm very happy that you agree because far too many people think the quick fix is a good idea. Good luck with the trainer, keep us posted!


Thanks! I will


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