# Do you argue with your instructor?



## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

No. Never. If I am _paying_ someone because I think their opinion is worth my hard earned money there is no way I am going to question their advice. If I were to really disagree with something I might consider looking elsewhere after I had tried the technique (more than once) and still disagreed with the logic.

Having said this, all my instructors have been professionals who have probably forgotten more than I will ever learn, so I have never been in a position where I was unhappy with advice.


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

Nope. I trust and believe everything my trainer has to say and offer. She is more than willing to allow me to explore and discover things on my own but I would never question her judgment.
If you do, I suggest you go somewhere else! Like Sarahver said, you're paying them. If you don't like them use your money elsewhere!


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

If I want to argue, I can argue at home for free. I chose my instructor because of her personality and what I've seen her accomplish with my daughter and others. If I didn't agree and trust her, I wouldn't have kept my daughter with her for 2 years and started lessons with her myself. She is the expert and I take her advice and do my best to learn from her every day. 

I do ask a lot of questions. I do want to know why she wants me do something a certain way, but only because I like to know why. I've never once gotten a run around answer. 

I don't have time in my day to pay someone to instruct me when I disagree with her. I'll go home and let my husband tell me how to cook if I want to disagree with someone.


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## Chella (May 23, 2009)

Oh for the love of Betsy! Yes I would and do argue with trainers/vets/farriers. They are my horses. If I question something they should be able to calmly expain why they want me/horse to do something. A good trainer would welcome a discussion and be able to provide an answer. Not that you have to agree with it. If it doesn't feel right than it probably isn't. I have followed to many "experts" advice that in the end was absolutely the wrong thing to do. Trust yourself. 

"unconscious incompetence
conscious incompetence
conscious competence
unconscious competence "


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have never argued with my instructor. It took me a really long time to find her though, I trust her very much. Her husband is also someone who's opinion I value greatly (He is a trainer but doesn't give lessons on a normal basis). 

I did take a lesson once with a lady that I remember, right out of the box she said "I know you are trying to impress me right now"... and then she called my horse a plug, said he was push button. Um... OK... I'll take that as a compliment? Anyway, I only took the one lesson from her because I wasn't there for that kind of instruction. I want to be taught. I want to learn.

I see your point. Shouldn't you offer cookies and milk with rants?


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## eventerdrew (Mar 13, 2009)

I _usually_ don't. But, there have been times where I've cliniced with trainers (or been with my regular trainer) and not been comfortable doing something (usually associated with jumping) and I've flat out refused to do it unless they lowered the jump. Then, they did and we eventually worked back up to what they wanted me to do in the first place. Or if there is a training technique I'm not comfortable using. Once I refused to whip my horse over and over to get the buck out of her. Nope. Not doing it.

But I usually don't because my trainer knows me well enough to know what my limits are as well as my horse's.


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## Carleen (Jun 19, 2009)

If she is trying to teach you things that you flat out do not agree with, I wouldn't be paying her to teach me those things.
Unfortunately as you said, she seems like your only choice. Unless there is another instructor at the barn?

I wouldn't argue with my instructor because I would not be paying someone who gives advice I do not agree with.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

*YES YES YES YES AND YES!!!*

I wouldn't say argue, but I would definately speak up, ask questions and offer my opinion to have a discussion as to WHY are we doing what we are being asked to do. What does this offer my horse and I, and how.

YOU are paying this person for a service - it is JUST BUSINESS - period! Nothing more, nothing less.

MyBoyPuck, you have EVERY RIGHT to confront this "coach" and lay all the cards on the table and try to find a way to create a bridge between the both of you. If all this person can do is insult and not give you strait to the point answers - then they shouldn't be coaching.

You have EVERY RIGHT to speak your mind. THIS IS BUSINESS!!! YOU hired her to teach you, if you don't like how you are being taught, fire her. You wouldn put up with it if your Hairdresser yelled at you and insulted you because of how you choose to wear your hair, or couldn't do your hair the way she told you to the last time you were with her. You wouldn't put up with it if you had to encounter this with any other "professional" out in the business world - whether it be a plumber or a dog groomer or your farrier or the person making a custom saddle for you.

Remember, YOU are putting money in her pocket, to help her pay for her bills.
You have the power!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

It's really a bit a bummer situation. I just moved to this barn and I love the facility. My horse is happier than he's ever been. The place is immaculate. It's everything a boarder could ask for. We're not leaving. It's too good a place for my horse and that's ultimately what counts. It's just this no outside trainer policy that bites. I liked my previous trainer and her theories are in line with mine. I'm going to see how things go with this new trainer a few more times and then maybe just plod along on my own for awhile. I just wanted to see how others felt about it.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I do. A lot. But then again, Toni isn't really an intructor so much as she is my second mother. She has been a friend of the family since LONG before I was even born, and I grew up at her barn riding and learning I used to take everything just because she said it, but when I started doing my own research I dared to challenge her....Granted she hasn't been wrong since I've known her, but I still ask anyway and hope for the day I can be right and she can be wrong. Still waiting. And waiting. And waiting some more.

It's perfectly fine to argue if you really feel its necessary. _You_ are paying _them._ They can deal with you because they are there at your expense. If they don't understand that you need explanations, then they should give you your money back and refer you to someone else.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

MyBoyPuck said:


> She seemed more than a bit put off by my insight to the point of suggesting we cannot work together.


That is the only bit of advice I would take from that "lesson".

Nothing wrong with ASKING the coach to explain themselves as we all learn in different ways. If that coach can't FULLY explain not only what they want but how to achieve it, expected results, expected consequences if not done correct and the reason why it is being asked for at this stage of training then they have no business teaching in any manner whatsoever.


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## juniormylove (Aug 28, 2008)

I argued with my old trainer all the time. She would tell me to do things I physically could NOT do, and wouldn't listen when I tried to explain why I wouldn't drop my stirrups. Or else she'd put me on a horse I had no idea how to ride, and give me instructions that made no sense and didn't work at all. -_-

My new/current trainer? Well...if you call breaking down into tears and begging to not ride a certain horse arguing...then yes. I've argued with her once (and I won). Otherwise, never.


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

In reading responses, I think that people are using argue and question interchangably...To me argue means to disagree disrespectfully, but to question means to ask why, or for clarification...I do that all the time. I do trust my instructor to not push me beyond my ability, but she does push me. I ask a lot and give her looks sometimes when she asks me to do something new that I'm slightly scared of. She's never let me down though. 

I would not argue with her though. Not only do I think it's silly to argue with my instructor about something she's made her life--she knows her stuff, but it would be no different than my high school students arguing about what they think I should be teaching them. That's not their area of expertise, nor is it my area to argue with her about riding.


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## kmacdougall (Feb 12, 2010)

I do not argue with my regular trainer. After once a week for 7 years, she has not once given me a piece of advice that I did not see as acceptable. She's willing to work at my pace and is comfortable with me and my horse.

However, I took a cross country clinic with an outside trainer. My horse came off of one jump strange and I informed the clinician that I was retiring from the clinic and would proceed through the rest of the jumps simply to watch (my horse wasn't lame.. he just didn't feel 'right'.) He made me feel like a complete incompetent idiot and told me to carry on and, more or less, don't be such a baby. He bullied me into it and I was too chicken to say no. My horse HAD twisted funny and was in TOTAL PAIN, which I found out after that. He was just too good of a boy to speak up about it. 
From now on, if a trainer gave me a piece of advice or tried to push me into something, the answer is flat out NO. I've paid in advance, my refusal to do any of the things presented is not costing that trainer a penny.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Fowl Play said:


> In reading responses, I think that people are using argue and question interchangably...To me argue means to disagree disrespectfully, but to question means to ask why, or for clarification...I do that all the time. I do trust my instructor to not push me beyond my ability, but she does push me. I ask a lot and give her looks sometimes when she asks me to do something new that I'm slightly scared of. She's never let me down though.


When I started this post, I attempted to equate argue with question. I in know way suggested being disrespectful. I guess debate would have been a more positive word to use.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

*I don't like the way this "trainer" handled it.*

Immature of the person to get huffy, to be resentful of your sincere reservations about "obeying orders", and to be so resistive to giving you an explanation for the orders! How are you going to learn if you don't know the why/when/how/where? 

I had a similar experience with a big "international" rider; I instinctively knew the directive was wrong, and since the incident, I've read/heard a million times that it was, indeed, wrong. I'd not bet on this trainer, and I think if you take more "lessons", it'll end up badly anyway, but with the added insult of $ wasted.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

when i took lessons with my old trainer [we had a falling out that had nothing to do with the horses..its a long story, but i miss him a lot] i would never argue with him. i would ask questions or ask why he wanted me to do something, but i trusted him, & i always knew he was trying to do right for the horse.

im not the kind of person who says no to a trainer, but i have and i will if i think they are not doing the right thing for the horse or for me.


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Sure, but not much with my current trainer, we agree on pretty much everything. But I'll often ask for the reasoning or philosophy behind what she's instructing. I ask how to accomplish the task, what the result should be, and what happens when I do it wrong or don't do it.

I have often told her that my horse was too hot to jump a certain jump or to canter again, once he gets wound up. She always respected that, but after she rode him she understood completely what kind of horse he is and how you have to ride him.

So basically, I can, do, and will "argue" with my trainer, but it's less like argue and more like discuss. And if the trainer can't give me an explanation I stop riding with them.


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

Well, once again I can consider myself extremely lucky. My trainer and I see eye to I on everything. In my eyes she's the best there is and she grants me the room to make my own judgment call if I want to try was she offers or not. I have total freedom, but only for the reason is because she is teaching me to be a better trainer and to think and feel independently. If I feel something going on I don't hesitate to ask why it's happening. If she tells me to do something, I trust her 100%. I do it, and almost always it's instantly better. However, you're never right all the time and she will be the first to admit that. Riding and training is an exploration. 
We are in it together all the way, which is why I never went back to school. I have found my place for now and I couldn't be happier. 
I read post after post on here and I continue to count my lucky stars, I am truly blessed to have a totally bad-*** trainer and mentor to teach me everything she knows. lol
There are people here at our barn that don't see eye to eye on a lot fo things we do and although I have accepted that they are on a different path, it is still frustrating at times. 
In my honest opinion, if the methods you chose to explore and believe in and you are working with someone who does not then no matter how good the barn is it's more worth it to find a place that _really_ floats your boat. Not just 1/2 way.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

koomy56 said:


> I have total freedom, but only for the reason is because she is teaching me to be a better trainer and to think and feel independently. .


That's an interesting insight. Maybe I feel like she's talking down to me, and I feel like I'm more on equal ground at least in terms of this time it's on my own horse. I've always been a self starter. At most I was only working with my old trainer every 3 weeks or so. I tend to work on myself and my horse a lot and then use lessons as tuneups. It's ultimately not a big issue. I just found the situation so odd when I wasn't allowed to question anything that I thought maybe I'm the only person challenging the info.


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## corinowalk (Apr 26, 2010)

Is trailering out to another trainer a possibility? We have the same rule inforced at our barn and it sucks! I've never taken a lesson from our instructor/trainer but I've argued with her plenty! As far as questioning a trainer, Im a systematic person who likes to know the whys of everything so I am an instructors worst nightmare. I also pay alot of money for a 1 hour lesson and spend 30 minutes of it asking questions and needing help with explanations. My current instructor is very patient and very rarely needs asked to explain anything.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

It's actually only a 10 minute hack to my old trainer's barn. The issue is getting to shows, and I have to be careful about how I play it. My old trainer charges me waaaayy too much for trailering. I have made some inroads at the new barn for rides to shows, but if this current situation blows up at all, I might lose out on those options too. For all I know, it's a "don't show with us - don't go with us" barn too. I have to find all that out quietly before I make a move. Hopefully by next year I'll have my own trailer and won't have to worry about this stuff anymore.


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## Juniper (May 4, 2007)

I always found that so weird that you can't bring your own trainer in. Talk about creating monopoly problems. We have had that twice at our barn and both of those trainers ended up leaving. How long has that trainer been there? If you like the barn there is the possibility of the trainer leaving 
I question my trainers all the time. If I don't understand the point of it I can't process it in my brain as well to try and pull it off. Good trainers can explain the reason for doing anything. That is one way to know how experienced they are. Both of the trainers I have worked with start a lesson with "What would you like to work on today, are you having any specific problems?" You know your goals and your horse!


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

koomy56 said:


> I have total freedom, but only for the reason is because she is teaching me to be a better trainer and to think and feel independently. .


I wish more coaches would teach this way.

To teach a person to be just a rider limits their understanding of the workings of the horse and ultimately limits their options in the show ring.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Your new instructor sounds like she has a very shallow knowledge of her job. Maybe she has done what her trainers said without ever LEARNING the whys.

I say load you horse in your trailer and go to your old trainer. They can't stop you from doing that.


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## HollyBubbles (Jun 22, 2009)

I don't have an instructor to be able to argue with haha.
I live in the *** **** with no horse float, and no trainer will come out to me.


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

Nope

Mine either says You are doing/or having problems with XXX, how do you think you should fix it? or You are having problems with XXX, I want you to try this to fix it and here's why.

So if I already know how (or think I know how) to fix the problem, I tell her and we try my way. If it flops, she then tells me her way to try and we do that. Or if I have no clue how to correct the problem, she'll give me something to try and explain why she thinks I should do that.


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## PaintsPwn (Dec 29, 2009)

> I have total freedom, but only for the reason is because she is teaching me to be a better trainer and to think and feel independently. .


This is what I do with the people I'm instructing. Granted, they're very much beginners - but I don't want to take their money, telling them the same thing over until they day I die. That's not TRUE teaching, IMO.

I like it when they ask questions, and question what I've told them. It shows that they're thinking about it, and it's more likely to stick with them. If they ask, and you tell them why, they SEE the purpose behind what they're doing. Even when I do lessons, I ask WHY all the time. If there's not reason behind it, then there's no reason to do it.

I've literally taken lessons where all I got from it was "Keep doing what you're doing, because it's working" .... I don't take lessons there anymore. I haven't taken lessons in a year, because I can't find an instructor who will better my riding or my horse. I can get the same out of a horse from everyone else around here, and it drives me NUTS because I so desperately want to gain more skills. Despite whatever, it's always good to ask WHY. As a paying client, you deserve reason.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Yep I do, not a flat out argument, but I'll get into a discussion about WHY she wants me to do something. I don't just 'do' something I need to know why. And sometimes I don't agree with what she wants me to do. My trainer is also a very good family friend and often asks me for MY opinion on how her horse is travelling and if I can sit and watch her ride him and let her know if I can see anything that she needs to change. So she is quite happy for me to question her teaching. 99% of the time what she wants me to do works very well. But I do find that because she also teaches beginners and has school horses to pay the bills, sometimes she will revert to beginner rider mode and dumb things down a little too much. At those times I need to give her a quick flick on the backside with the whip as I ride past haha!

I think the competition between us and our different ideas helps both of us out as far as teaching and learning goes. I also LOVE proving her wrong haha, she lives to be right, and so proving her wrong feels so satisfying  For instance when I got Hugo, the first week there he was travelling well, but wanted to stay up in an elementary frame when he wouldn't even be able to get through a prelim, being straight off the track. Coach said draw reins would get him travelling softer in a week rather than spending months sending him forward and into the bridle to get the same result. Well I went home, spent the week working in the paddock on him up and down hills and making him reach for the ground. Brought him back a week later and he travelled around with his nose on the ground stretching from the wither and over tracking. 

You have to remember that yes, coaches are there to help you and obviously they've got more experience than you. But YOU are the only one that really knows your horse. and if something doesn't feel right, and you know you can get what the coach wants you to do but with a different method, speak up! On the other side, if you don't know how to get what the coach is asking for, listen to them and persist even if it feels like hell, because speaking from experience, it's often a case of riding through the rough patch and suddenly it will click and you'll be amazed at how your horse is travelling


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## Fowl Play (Sep 22, 2009)

Delfina said:


> Nope
> 
> Mine either says You are doing/or having problems with XXX, how do you think you should fix it? or You are having problems with XXX, I want you to try this to fix it and here's why.
> 
> So if I already know how (or think I know how) to fix the problem, I tell her and we try my way. If it flops, she then tells me her way to try and we do that. Or if I have no clue how to correct the problem, she'll give me something to try and explain why she thinks I should do that.


Mine does very similar. She has me working on side passes a lot right now and when his rear end lags behind, she asks me how I think I should fix it. Instead of saying yes or no, she says to try it and then evaluate how it worked. 

When I don't understand something I stop right in the middle of the arena and ask her to explain it to me again. She can usually tell by the look on my face if I feel like she's pushing me or if I'm completely confused. I love turning on the foreend or hind quarters so when I really struggle on something she will throw a few of those in to ease my mind and then go back to whatever was confusing me.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Fowl Play said:


> In reading responses, I think that people are using argue and question interchangably.


Must say that I did think this also. I think arguing is counter productive and wastes good lesson time. To me argue suggests that you enter into a disagreement where two different points of view are debated with neither party willing to compromise or understand what the other is trying to say.

Questioning however is an integral part of learning when done in a respectful manner.

It sounds to me like your instructor speaks in a disrespectful way which is guaranteed to ruffle a few feathers, I know I would be very unimpressed just like you. I also find whenever ANYONE in ANY field tries to justify their qualifications by saying things like "I train with the highest level of riding instructors" or "I used to ride competition with so and so (insert shameless name dropping here)" it is usually because they are full of s**t. People who are genuinely the best in their field will never justify themselves by who they have trained/ridden WITH.

Hope you can find a solution to this as it sounds like a great environment minus the trainer!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I stand by Spyder and Allison's posts.

MyBoyPuck, I get the feeling you are being pressured and bullied. My heart goes out to you, you are in a pickle for sure.

I'm fortunate enough, to have that freedom. When I moved to the Hunter/Jumper barn I am currently at, being an Eventer - I was not impressed with the available "coaches" on the premesis.

I couldn't afford the Eventing Facility at $500 a month, so this was my only option at $350 a month. I was able to bring my own coach in, thankfully. I couldn't waste my money on what was there, and that wasn't acceptable to me. 

~~~~

I just want to stress to those who are reading - and to those who are not fortunate enough to have a coach who is functional and educated....*PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO VOICE YOURSELF!!!*

Unfortunately, at our levels, there are more coaches out there who shouldn't be coaching, in compareson to those who truely are educated and experienced. So sadly, yes - the majority are riding under coaches who are uneducated, teaching the uneducated.

So please, please, ask questions. Ask WHY!! Ask your coach to explain themselves and ask your coach to give you the desired outcome in words and actions. 

Do not be scared to voice your opinions and your hesitations! Don't be scared to ask questions. 

YOU are spending your money, or your parents are - and it saddens me that people are permitting their coaches to have this "power" over them, when in reality - it is YOU who has the power.

Stand up for yourselves. Stand up for your education, and your horse!! STAND UP and SPEAK UP!


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

Allison Finch said:


> Your new instructor sounds like she has a very shallow knowledge of her job. Maybe she has done what her trainers said without ever LEARNING the whys.


I LOVE how you put it. I run into number of trainers, who were probably taught what they try to teach when they were riders. But have no knowledge behind that, and in fact can't deal when situation is not typical. 
A REALLY GOOD instructor is a diamond hard to find. 

I don't argue with my current instructor, because I truly think she's great. Not just teaching (that even the dumb person like me understands  ), but also explaining why you have to move this way and not that based on the skeleton, movement, and balance. However I ask lots of questions, some not easy to answer (just a habit, I usually can't proceed with something without the complete understanding of reasoning behind it). 

Also another (old) instructor I started to take lessons again with tells me all the time I'm wrong, my horse doesn't go right, etc. While it's not pleasant to hear of course, it's a truth I have to deal with. She tells me HOW to deal with it though with explanation of why it'll help. So I'd never even think to argue with her.

However there are instructors out there who are plain bad - don't teach you anything, can't answer questions, etc. Then I just try and leave, arguing won't take you anywhere.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

MyBoyPuck said:


> For starters, I'm not talking world class instructors where you dress in proper attire and show complete respect at all times. I'm just asking, with your average lesson or show barn instructor, do you ever argue or challenge his or her instructions? By argue, I do not mean rant and rave and carry on like a child, simply question the advice being given.
> 
> 
> So back to original question, do you ever argue with your trainer?


Are you saying that an instructor that is not 'world class' does not deserve respect???? EVERYONE deserves respect. EVERYONE.

As far as arguing, no. Never. I don't question but I will ASK questions. I am very much a why person. But I would never argue with a professional.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

I have my own place and my boarders hire what ever trainer they want.......the only stipulation is the trainer must be respectful of the other trainers that come and go........as a barn owner I would never impose my trainer on anyone else.

Super Nova


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## LoveStory10 (Oct 31, 2009)

Lol oh yes!

We have "fights" all the time. But in the end they both know best, so I always do what they say as long as it sounds good and right


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

mls said:


> Are you saying that an instructor that is not 'world class' does not deserve respect???? EVERYONE deserves respect. EVERYONE.


Respect as a person yes, respect as an instructor (and I mean knowledge and ability to teach) not always. I've seen "instructors" out there not knowing how to ride and being afraid of horses. :shock: Also 'world class' riders can be very poor instructors. With that being said arguing is not a right way to go in any case.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

mls said:


> Are you saying that an instructor that is not 'world class' does not deserve respect???? EVERYONE deserves respect. EVERYONE.


I am talking about respect within the discipline, not general respect for a person. Respect within any area of study is earned, not an entitlement. A world class rider who has competed at the highest levels has earned respect. His or her success has shown a proven track record. Jane Q barn owner who hangs out a shingle and calls herself a trainer has some foundation that needs to be built before respect can be earned.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

I don't think blind faith in another human being is ever wise.


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## IslandWave (Nov 25, 2009)

MyBoyPuck said:


> For starters, I'm not talking world class instructors where you dress in proper attire and show complete respect at all times. I'm just asking, with your average lesson or show barn instructor, do you ever argue or challenge his or her instructions? By argue, I do not mean rant and rave and carry on like a child, simply question the advice being given.
> 
> I ask because I recently have my first lesson with a new instructor. It was difficult from the start because she insulted my riding right out of the box and then proceeded to spend the next 45 minutes talking non-stop telling me everything I was doing wrong. Definitely not a good start, but I'm an adult and tried to hear her out. At one point she told me to do something with my horse that I simply do not at all agree with. When I asked her to explain her reasoning, she started in with all the "I train with high level instructors" and "I ride at a high level" garbage. You know, everything except a good answer. I tried to explain to her that I am not an 8 year old and thus do not always take everything at face value. If I have an issue with something, I will speak up. I take lessons to further my riding, but will toss out anything I don't find helpful for my horse. She seemed more than a bit put off by my insight to the point of suggesting we cannot work together. This creates a problem since I just move to this barn, both me and my horse love it so we're not going anywhere, and they do not let outside trainers in.
> 
> So back to original question, do you ever argue with your trainer?


I'm very fortunate to have an amazing trainer/instructor. She has never asked me to do anything that I feel uncomfortable doing and always has a kind word, even if I do horribly. If I am struggling and do a sliver of something right, she is right there to say "good job!"

I have never argued with her. I'm the type of person who likes to muse things over in my head until I figure it out and experiment on my own. However, I do question her when I do not understand why something worked or did not work. She always explains it to me clearly and if I do not understand her, she'll explain it in a different way until we both are on the same page. 

I respect trainers, but I will question them if I feel that they are asking me to do something that will not benefit my horse. I've never run into that problem with my current trainer. In fact, I've learned more in the 2-3 years that I have been riding with her than the 7 years that I took lessons with someone else. 

I feel that it is very important to find an instructor that "clicks" with you. That way you will understand their way of teaching and be able to make smoother progress. Also, I find it helps if the instructor rides your horse a couple times so they know how he/she goes. And it's great to hear their commentary while they ride. You can ask questions and they can show you what they mean, and a visual aid can be so helpful. It also can show you what your horse is capable of.

As for your situation... It's a hard one. Personally I might try to stick it out for one more lesson or so, but if possible, I'd go back to your old trainer, especially if you had a good thing going with her. I hope it all works out for the better!


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## Cougar (Jun 11, 2009)

I've discussed things with trainers many times but I also wouldn't school under someone I didn't respect or like the way they handled their horses. I was very close with my last trainer. Her and I spent 12 hours a day together and rode 4+ times a day together. So it was natural to discuss our thoughts on horses and training.


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

Great post, islandwave!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

[QUOTE=MyBoyPuck;635141 I just moved to this barn and I love the facility. My horse is happier than he's ever been. The place is immaculate. It's everything a boarder could ask for. We're not leaving. 
It's too good a place for my horse and that's ultimately what counts. 

Living in a barn is a bit like living in a block of flats - you don't have full control of what goes on. But in this case, it is not you that is living there - it is your horse. And you admit the horse is happy. And then you add; "We're not leaving' 
So Puck's Mum you haven't got much choice have you?


I liked my previous trainer and her theories are in line with mine. 
I'm going to see how things go with this new trainer a few more times and then maybe just plod along on my own for awhile.

Well that seems to be the best way - for the moment

Puck. This learning about horses thing works various ways. If you find an instructor whom you like - then that is great - even if she teaches you mildly incorrectly. 
However if you are lumbered with an instructor whom you don't get on with, then you can still learn because you have to ask yourself and research for yourself whether what she is trying to teach you is in fact correct. More importantly you should ask yourself whether her advice works for you and your horse. At least try to perform as she is suggesting just to see if she is correct or not. There is a good chance she might be right.

However in order to question whether advice from an instructor is right or wrong then first you have to know what is the correct advice. So you have to ask questions of all around you and by listening to others then you will come to make up your own mind. But never forget that your prime responsibility is to the horse. If the horse is happy then, maybe for a little while, you'll have to be patient and pliable.

This hobby/sport/lifestyle of horse riding is filled with conflicting advice. As long as you are involved with horses then at the end of the day, for your horse's sake, you, the owner, have to make the final decisions as to what is right for you and for the horse. But remember that you go home at night, the horse lives on the barn.


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## Madyson (Aug 27, 2009)

No. It is so rude, especially if you're a minor (I know you're not, but I am just talking in general).
But if I do have a question about something, then I will not hesitate to ask. Everyone makes mistakes, so I am not blindly obedient to her. But I know her so well, it's like she could be an aunt. I trust her very much, and quite honestly I don't think that I'll ever leave unless she goes completely psycho on my horse and I. She is an amazing trainer for problem horses and young horses/babies because she is also an exceptional breeder with quality Warmbloods. She bred my horse, Rhythm, and has guided me every step of the way of his training. 
What I love about her most, is that she doesn't do training rides or work with your horse unless absolutely necessary. Why? Because she believes in making the rider/owner work for what they have, and that can only increase your bond with your horse.

Anyways, OP, do you own a trailer? Or do you know someone who would be willing to haul your horse to take lessons at another barn?


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## ellygraceee (May 26, 2010)

I've got no problem with "arguing" (for want of a better word - perhaps play fighting?) with my instructor but I would never seriously argue with him. Like we'll have minor joking around arguments over silly things like him wanting me to get on my horse in a mud puddle (his evil streak mwahaha he knows I hate mud), or having to pay him a Mars Bar and Coke for falling off (I weasled out of it by giving him the much cheaper homemade chocolate fudge haha he didn't complain anymore after tasting it). Nothing like full blown "I HATE YOU! YOU ARE WRONG" arguments with lots of hate and disagreement going on, ones we can laugh about while it's happening. He's also my cousin so I have no problems joking around or questioning him if I'm scared or think something's not right, but I have far too much respect for him to be downright nasty. 

I've had a disagreement with a riding instructor who I never had instruct me after he had one of my cousin's jump a 1.40m course in the rain with no stirrups and ruined a friend's horse by rushing him at the jumps from a slow canter to a hand gallop in the space of three sides in front of a jump. When a man can come in and put a child's safety in danger, then I have absolutely no problem telling him where to go (mind you, I'm 17 and he's in his 50s). The horse that he rushed now has to be ridden in a pretty harsh pelham so my friend has some control. And this instructor keeps coming back because he doesn't tell his students when they are wrong, just keeps telling them "faster faster! heels down!" and that's about the limit to his vocabulary. 

Any other instructor, hell would freeze over before I would disrespect them or argue with them - I've paid for them to be there and they are doing their best for me. I go a lot by what people have said about instructors and if there is any chance that they would put me in a place where I could get scared or my horse or I hurt, I wouldn't go to them. And being rude to people isn't going to get you anywhere in the horse industry, but a few enemies are guarenteed.


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## whitetrashwarmblood (Aug 24, 2008)

There have been a few times where I'll question what they ask me to do. I've only ever had one trainer that I had took lessons with once a week for like 4 years, and that was way before I had a horse of my own and I was still in elementary school. Thankfully the lady was actually very knowledgeable, and she was (and still is) very cocky about it. She had told me she is greatest, THE very best at what she does. *Rolls eyes*

I have been to a few jumping clinics, and I have taken a few lessons here and there from a couple different dressage trainers. Some I really liked, others not so much. Usually the ones I didn't like, it turned out that they didn't really like me either.


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## Becca93 (Jan 22, 2009)

I think there is a huge difference with arguing with an instructor and questioning the mechanics behind something.

I think it is rude to argue with someone who is trained in a field or profession regarding their expertise and knowledge.

However, if you wish to question WHY something is happen, or WHY it works, etc in a polite and courteous manner I don't see the problem.

You are there to learn. You can't do that effectively by not understanding why something is happening.

Granted, I wouln't last too long under someone that I had a personality clash with.


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## dedebird (May 21, 2010)

i can't fight with my trainers i'm to afriad of her... if there is somthing i don't wanna do i sometimes ignore her but then she started yelling canter at the top of her lungs and my horse almost took off thank god i have control of her enough but i seriously don't like my instructor i can't go anywhere else cause ( i don't know why but) my mom likes her so i've pretty much stoped riding because of her but on friday mornings when my instructor isn't there i somtimes go to ride around on sadie


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## klutzygirl234 (May 23, 2010)

Never ever!


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## CTevent (May 29, 2010)

*Re: argue with your instructor*

My horse resides in the same area as MyBoyPuck and is also in eventing. There are multiple trainers within that area that you can train with, and close by, like you said, your trainer is only a short hack over the fields and through the woods. My advice: if your not happy, then leave. It's not worth the emotional stress you are experiencing. As for the trainer you took a lesson with: just look at her horses go in the ring...happy, soft, collected, will jump anything and are healthy. And look at her students: calm, confident, are solid with their basics and are steadily moving up the levels. She is the trainer I would go to to start a new, young horse in the eventing world. And she is the trainer I would bring my child to. You must have patience when riding with someone new, everyone brings something to the table, you just need an open mind to learn, accept, and apply to your riding. It is not a good thing to ride with just one trainer, you become too one sided and closed to new techniques. A TRAINER has earned that title when they start to charge money for their services, with that said, as riders we are all TRAINERS, you don't need a mile long resume, you need time, mileage, experience, and once again open mindedness to know that your learning is still evolving, but the goals are different, the learning is to better yourself and your students as well. That's all I can say, riding is an ever evolving process and the best riders are open minded!!! So don't argue/debate/question.....learn!


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## Jordan S (Jun 7, 2009)

heck no Im the child!


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## Silvera (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm sorry I didn't have time to read every post so if this has been said then I'm sorry 

I wouldn't necessarily argue with my instructor, but I do ask questions. I like to know why someone is asking me to do something this way or that. If the person can't answer with a reason then I usually stop getting them to teach me. If you can think of a logical reason for me to do something then I will try it no problem. It's when you can't give me a reason that I have an issue. There should always be a reason behind everything we do with horses.

Now I know you said you can't use anyone else becasue they don't allow outside instructors but I would suggest talking to the BO. Explain to them that you tried a lesson with their instructor and it didn't work out so well. Explain what happend and see if they can help you come up with a suitible answer. They may have someone else that they will allow in, or they may make an exception and allow you to bring someone else it. It doesn't hurt to ask (unless the instructor is the BO, then you may have a problem). I hope you can find something that works for you. Good luck.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

CTevent said:


> Like you said, your trainer is only a short hack over the fields and through the woods. My advice: if your not happy, then leave. It's not worth the emotional stress you are experiencing. As for the trainer you took a lesson with: just look at her horses go in the ring...happy, soft, collected, will jump anything and are healthy. And look at her students: calm, confident, are solid with their basics and are steadily moving up the levels. !


I'm not experiencing any emotional stress over this. As I've said several times before, it's not a big deal. We got off on the wrong foot, our teaching/learning styles obviously clashed. It happens. My horse is well cared for there and that's ultimately what matters. I did watch some other lessons first and saw the attributes you mention. I would not have tried a lesson otherwise. When I did take the lesson, it was completely unfamiliar ground to me and I didn't know what to make of it. I am used to a very different style of teaching. As I said in the OP, I just want to know what other people's back and forth was with their instructors.


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## BestJumping (May 7, 2010)

*BestJumping*

I just trust and having faith on my trainer and if i just have any problem or i just want to asked something then he always welcome for discussion, thanks that i have a well trained trainer.


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## Mickey4793 (Sep 24, 2009)

Well to start, they're supposed to tell you everything that you're doing wrong.
But that being said, they should also be telling you how to fix it, and if they are failing to do such, you should find a new trainer.

But I would never argue with my trainers. Why? They're both extremely accomplished, and respected, and I'm paying a boat load to listen to them, so I'm gonna.

I have however, expressed my feelings to them, in telling them if I was uncomfortable doing something, and that's perfectly acceptable, however one of my trainers will go on a tangent on how she would never tell me to do something she didn't think I was capable of and I usually end up doing it anyways :]


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