# This is my 1 year old pinto Arabian/American Show horse.



## iridehorses

Scout, it's really hard to judge based on the pictures you posted. Try to set him up so that we have a better view of him from the side standing correctly.

But based on what you have, he is pretty narrow chested and has a rather common head. He could use a little weight as well. I don't see the Arabian in him.

I know from other posts that you wanted to keep him a stallion but, truthfully, there does not seem to anything remarkable or even special enough to breed him.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.


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## GeminiJumper

Sorry, but I winced when I saw that first pic. Ack!!! Barbed wire!!! But your yearling looks very lovely and sweet but a little ribby!! Very cute, though!


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## girl_on_black_pony

AHHH! Get the barbed wire out. He needs to gain weight also. Narrow- chested. I dont see arabian either.
Please geld him


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## Harlee rides horses

Cow-hocked.


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## ScoutRacer

The horses don't bother the barbed wire and the barbed wire don't bother the horses... we've never had a problem.  

And if you have any suggestions about his ribs please let me know... He has 25 acres of green pasture so the guy eats all day, and we feed him 1 feeding of grain each day.

I don't know what else to do I've noticed he is a little ribby, and yes he's on de-wormer


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## lacyloo

feed him twice a day :wink:


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## ScoutRacer

I'm sorry but I highly doubt you can tell if a horse is breed worthy when it's 1 year old. If you think he's not breed worthy you just have a pickel up your hind den.


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## Spastic_Dove

I dont want to start a debate here, but you CAN know if a horse is worthy to breed when it is a year. What are his bloodlines like. What did his sire and dam accomplish? If it isn't OUTSTANDING don't breed him. I doubt you want to support horse slaughter. =/

other than that i think he is adorable =)


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## iridehorses

ScoutRacer said:


> _I'm sorry but I highly doubt you can tell if a horse is breed worthy when it's 1 year old. _ quote]
> 
> Yes you can and it is done often by professional breeders.
> 
> Your horse may be the entire universe to you and he may have nice color but he is common and has faults. You also submitted pictures that do not show him in what could be at his best. What did you really expect?
> 
> Lastly there is no reason to be crude with anyone who disagrees with your assessment. You asked for opinions and you got them. If you can't take the criticism then don't ask for your horse to be critiqued.


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## Spastic_Dove

Oh, and also, I would feed some hay twice a day. Pasture is lovely, but I like horses to get either a complete feed or some hay with them on top of that, Otherwise I feel like they turn out ribby from just pasture.


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## Fisher.Cat.

ScoutRacer said:


> The horses don't bother the barbed wire and the barbed wire don't bother the horses... we've never had a problem.


All it takes is one spook and a blind run to turn that cutie into chopped meat because he ran into the barbed wire :wink: 

And I'll have to agree with some of the others. He'd be a great little gelding!


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## Spyder

Spastic_Dove said:


> I dont want to start a debate here, but you CAN know if a horse is worthy to breed when it is a year. What are his bloodlines like. What did his sire and dam accomplish? If it isn't OUTSTANDING don't breed him. I doubt you want to support horse slaughter. =/
> 
> other than that i think he is adorable =)


That is not always true.

My horse has very good bloodlines and conformation and he was georgous as a foal. Passable as a yearling. I wanted to hide him from view as a 2 year old and now he is back to being georgous.

Horses go through stages and I have looked at this horse's background in another thread. What I see is a very breedable grand sire but nowhere near the type I like but that is neither here nor there. His offspring...Scouts sire is of lesser quality for the purpose that the grand sire was designed/bred for but I actually like him better (other than he is gaited) simply because he is more my type.

Now Scout to me has gone way off track to the original purpose for what was being bred for the show ring ( referring to the grandsire) and I personally would geld him as he is nowhere near what I think the expected breeding result from his sire's and dam's mating. Then I look at what mine went through. I waited past the yearling stage and past the hide the fugly 2 year old and pass the "OK" 3 year old.

Mine blossumed at 4 and older.


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## Mira

I'm going to stay out of this other than giving you some suggestions on putting weight on him.

As someone mentioned, feed him at least twice a day. Heck, feed him three times a day. I do that with my horse. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to give him tons more grain, either. I recently adjusted my horse from 2 times per day to 3 and I didn't give him more grain. I just spread it out equally. Two-three time a day feeding helps rather than just once because they aren't going empty,full, empty, full. 

Also, a good supplement is Coco Soya. It's a sort of oil, fairly priced, and works wonders. :wink:

And go with what another person suggested as for the hay.


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## Spastic_Dove

Spyder said:


> Spastic_Dove said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont want to start a debate here, but you CAN know if a horse is worthy to breed when it is a year. What are his bloodlines like. What did his sire and dam accomplish? If it isn't OUTSTANDING don't breed him. I doubt you want to support horse slaughter. =/
> 
> other than that i think he is adorable =)
> 
> 
> 
> That is not always true.
> 
> My horse has very good bloodlines and conformation and he was georgous as a foal. Passable as a yearling. I wanted to hide him from view as a 2 year old and now he is back to being georgous.
> 
> Horses go through stages and I have looked at this horse's background in another thread. What I see is a very breedable grand sire but nowhere near the type I like but that is neither here nor there. His offspring...Scouts sire is of lesser quality for the purpose that the grand sire was designed/bred for but I actually like him better (other than he is gaited) simply because he is more my type.
> 
> Now Scout to me has gone way off track to the original purpose for what was being bred for the show ring ( referring to the grandsire) and I personally would geld him as he is nowhere near what I think the expected breeding result from his sire's and dam's mating. Then I look at what mine went through. I waited past the yearling stage and past the hide the fugly 2 year old and pass the "OK" 3 year old.
> 
> Mine blossumed at 4 and older.
Click to expand...

I agree, horses do go through stages, and conformation wise it is very hard to judge. Young horses are gangly and akward. But if they have mile long pasterns or club feet or something you're going to be able to see that. 
What I meant was if you have a horse with a highly accomplished sire and a highly accomplished dam who has no incredible defaults that could be passed down or lead to a breakdown for the horse that is something I think would be safe to consider breeding.

However, a horse with a no-name sire or dam and any problematic conformational faults should not be bred. 

This isn't talking about this horse in particular. I don't know anything about his bloodlines and I'm not evaluating his conformation. I was just talking about breeding in general. It is very possible to have a good idea of whether a yearling is breeding material or not. 

I am also not trying to decide whether this horse is breedable or not, as I said before, I don't know anything about him really.

Of course, that also entails the whole "Why are you breeding" question which is a whole nother story. Which, if he were to be kept a stallion, I would wonder that. If that makes sense?

Hope that cleared up what I meant. If not I apologize in advance. My brain has gone on vacation. It's been storming for hours.


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## iridehorses

Concerning barbed wire. I have used it without problems for nearly 20 years UNTIL a few months ago. I had 2 horses on 25 acres of pasture then brought in a third horse. 

As is my practice, I keep a new horse in the paddock adjoining the pasture. The paddock is about 3/4 acre and board fence on three sides but barbed wire where it meets the pasture. This is what happened when the mare (which cost me $4,500 the week before) wanted to join the other two.









I was very lucky that the cuts did not get into her muscle but was only skin. That is the vet giving her shots and stitches at a cost of $400 on a sunny Sunday morning.


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## ScoutRacer

Oh I am not saying that I know that nothing will go wrong for sure. Right now we have a lot of pasture with barbed wire and to redo it all would be a big job. I will keep it in mind for the future to take it down and put up normal wire.

As far as feeding hay to a horse that has plenty of pasture grass... if I was to put hay out in the pasture for them to eat... they would at best use it as bedding. They would much rather eat fresh green grass than dry hay. Can you blame them?


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## mayfieldk

*If you can't take the criticism then don't ask for your horse to be critiqued. *


Amen!

And yeah, barbed wire is pretty horrible. Don't take it into consideration; do something about it. There is a reason why EVERY horse book out there and every professional will tell you to get rid of it.

Other then that, he is very cute. I don't like how his neck ties into his body at all; there's a huge dip before his withers. Pretty common head. Can't really tell from anything else. A great gelding.


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## geewillikers

Willy is on pasture most days, but he definitely gets at least a flake in the morning and flake at night no matter what. And he'll eat anything! He would definitely eat hay in his pasture....maybe just try it??? Your guy needs some supplemental forage.


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## ScoutRacer

supplemental forage? The other 3 horses he's in pasture with are as fat as can be and they are being ridden everyday... He eats as much and as often as he wants. Horses are grazing animals... they eat grass and grass is what a horse does best on. He gets a full scoup of pelleted grain + 2 oz. of vita-plus every day. I'm not saying additional source of calories wouldn't be good, but I am saying he should have plenty the way he is. I don't know if our horses are weird but I am not kidding if you put hay out there now... with all the grass they can eat... they wont even pay attention to it we've tried. Also I think a lot of if might be his age... he's growing up then filling out then growing up and filling out.

I do appreciate the advice I just like to argue for the most part.


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## geewillikers

Well,since you asked, I thought maybe a suggestion was what you were looking for.


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## danastark

I do like his interesting star and blaze on his face and although he is narrow, his front legs look pretty good. Maybe cowhocked in the back, hard to tell.

Every horse has different nutritional needs. I have 3 horses and my 15 hd. paint needs twice as much as 18 hd. draft, while the pony gets fat just looking at feed!!. Probably because your colt is growing so fast, he can't get enough in him from roughage (grass). Concentrated nutrients (pellets or something like that) would help him get enough calories.


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## Spyder

I would like to point out that this horse is hot blooded and will burn calories off much quicker . So high energy food should be out and as said above more concentrated food with a higher fat content ( like hi Fat and Fiber ) along with good quality hay given to him on a daily basis IN HIS STALL so you KNOW he is eating it, not others or wasting it.

THEN turn him back out. This will also ensure he will get the maximium growth his genes will allow.


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## ScoutRacer

ok thanks for the help we don't have a barn so he stays outside full time along with the other 4 horses we have. I'll just have to take him out and feed him in our round pen. I am a bit worried about how big he will be I am 6'4 and I would enjoy a big larger horse... I was aware before I got him that his breed arabian/saddlebred horses do not get that large. I would like him to be avg sized at the least.


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## minihorse927

Horses are hard to judge as yearlings for the simple fact they are in that gangly stage. If you want to you can leave him a stallion for now if he has no bad habits and decide when he gets older and you see what he is gonna look like. I think he is narrow chested but that will come with age. We do miniature horses and when I mean gangly looking, I REALLY MEAN UGLY HORSES in the miniature breed. We have a two year old filly at the house now that is so narrow in the chest that she almost hits when we work her a little. We just put performace boots on her because we know she will widen with age. I would definitely feed him 2-3 times a day though. Yearlings require more protein and fat in their diet than a six or seven year old horse to maintain weight. So that is why the others are so fat on just grass and maybe a little feed and he is so much thinner than the rest. I am not here to make anyone mad, but to give some good ideas and receive some!


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## ScoutRacer

Yeah do you have any suggestions on what type of feed... right now I know for a fact Scout is getting the wrong type of pelleted grain. He is on Mustang - safe n easy.... which I know if for SENIOR horses.... so I know he's not getting what he needs from the grain... especially since senior and yearling horses need vastly different thing from grain. But yeah does anyone have any suggestions on what type of grain I should use for him.


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## Snapple122

> As far as feeding hay to a horse that has plenty of pasture grass... if I was to put hay out in the pasture for them to eat... they would at best use it as bedding. They would much rather eat fresh green grass than dry hay. Can you blame them?


our horses are out on grass every day too, but they come running for their hay every morning and every night


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## kitten_Val

First, it depends on hay a lot. :wink: My horses run back to the hay rack after being on pasture for couple hours. My neighbor's horses who are on pasture a lot don't gain that much weight either. I'd feed him grain at least twice a day (a scoop). Plus may be add weight build in it and veggie/corn oil for sure. That's how I brought weight on mine (she was much thinner). 

He has thin neck and cow-hocked. Lovely color, but I'm sorry he's not breeding quality (yes, I know he's baby, but the overall confo problems don't go away with age).

iridehorses, that's HORRIBLE! I'm very sorry to hear about her! We always learn the hard way...


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## geewillikers

Soaked beet pulp helps add some weight.


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## minihorse927

I would go out and look into wither mare and foal feed (it can be fed up to 2 years of age and sometimes even older). Either find something that is already fortified with vitamin and minerals or buy an additional vitamin and mineral supplement. I like the purina feeds, especially the strategy and omolene lines. These are fortified feeds and you do not have to feed all that extra vit and min supplement. Try to go for something 16% protein and around 6% fat or maybe even a little higher. 

On the other hand to all the people who think that cow hocked horses will always be cow hocked when they get older. Every single baby I have ever owned has been cow hocked at least a little, but if it is not severe it can be corrected at young ages with proper hoof trimming and proper muscling. Very rarely do do I ever see a yearling that has the proper muscle tone unless someone is longeing them everyday and building the proper muscle needed to correct small conformation problems. The same thing goes for horses that are slightly toe out! A lot of people do not understand how important muscling is on their horse, it can correct minor confirmational problems and it makes them look like a completely different horse!


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## ScoutRacer

other than lunging to help shape his muscles what else can I do to help him? I do lunge him at least 2-3 times a week in a big round pen.


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## farmpony84

...With my baby we gave junior horse, alot of junior horse, those small feed buckets you can buy, I think they are 4 qt buckets? so he got 2 of those a day plus we had him on alfalfa, at 2 he's getting a little bit less grain and it's no longer the junior horse feed and he's still on the alfalfa along with the grass. Scout may look ribby becuase he's in a growth spurt, it's hard to tell, I just know that baby's need tons of food if that helps any. He's really really cute. I'm not the best person when it comes to critiquing conformation so I'll stay out of that argument, but he's cute.....


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## Sara

Good point Farm, horses at this age tend to vary a lot because of growth spurts. They may look ribby one week and fine the next (I've certainly been seeing this in my yearling). He does look like he could be getting a bit more feed, either a high-quality young horse feed (lots to choose from out there) or a lower-quality young horse feed with a supplement. I would also recommend feeding multiple times a day. If he's too big for a creep feeder, possibly try a feed bag. But ideally, I'd separate him from the big boys for feeding. Honestly, I'd rather see a bit of rib then a fat yearling; overly-quick growth is hard on their joints and tendons, at worst leading to serious life-long lameness issues.

ed. as to critique, I wouldn't venture to say as these pictures are not good for that purpose. I will say that most of the young horses I've met are cow-hocked and most of them have grown out of it. Unless its extreme, I wouldn't worry. Better off looking at the dam and sire's legs. Without better pics, I'd say he looks like your average yearling, nothing jumps out as horribly wrong, but they are all gawky and awkward at this stage.


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## kitten_Val

I do agree about cow-hocked in youngsters. I know some people even prefer that. But on critique side that's what he has so it was mentioned.  I know the youngsters change a lot with age (although my paint didn't change much except the height and length, but qh did). 

ScoutRacer, you should post pics again when he'll be 2+ for better critiques. Lol!


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## Vidaloco

I don't do critique but I think he's lovely, nice coloring. I think the angle of your photos may make him look thinner than he is. 
As far as the barbed wire you might look into the barbless. We are still in the process of replacing our barbed wire. Ours don't mess with it either but mine needs replaced anyway so figured I'd go barbless. The barbless is getting more available here in Kansas, I'm sure you can find it in MI.


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## girl_on_black_pony

Alfalfa fattens up my horses real quick, and I have them on pasture 24/7 also.
I have barbless wire, and also electic tape in great for horses


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## minihorse927

As a yearling there is not a whole lot you can do with him to build muscling due to the fact his bones and joints are not set enough yet to handle hard workouts. Longeing will help out, it may not solve all the problem, but as I said before, it will come with age. If you really wanted to you could start to teach him how to line drive from the ground, this way it puts no stress on his growing body and gives you some more time to train with him and walking is also great for building muscles, especially up and down hills. Make him walk if you do this, do not let him trot because that is the lazy way for him to do it so he does not have to work as hard. As I said I would not work him to hard, but a little work up and down hills will noy hurt him any. If you have a slight hill that you can longe on, they make the best place to longe. We have one across the creek in our yard and that is how we build all of our yearlings up that we are showing. Most of them you can't even tell are yearlings! If you can, do walking and troting on the line, I would not canter him on a hill as it is again a easy way to get out of working.


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## ArticMyst

You were talking about how tall he will get. Look at the sire and dam that will generally give you a good estimate of his height when mature. With National Show Horses, most of the time if the sire is an Arabian and the dam a Saddlebred you get larger horses. If the sire is a Saddlebred and the dam an Arabian thats when you typically see smaller NSH's. 

As for breeding quality you would be hard pressed to tell at this moment. However from what I'm seeing right now he really doesnt have the attributes that people are looking for in a NSH stud. Hes really cute though, and very nice coloring.


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## 3neighs

I'm not one to critique anyone else's horse since my own have plenty of flaws, but as for what you can do besides lunging I pony my yearling from another horse. Now is a good time for them to be exposed to everything they'll come across later in life. I'll be using her for driving and trail riding so by ponying her I'm getting her used to traffic and all the sights and sounds we'll encounter on the trails. Setting up obstacles such as stepping over logs, through water puddles, etc. gets her ready for the trails, too.

As for the height prediction, I'm confused about that myself. I posted this in another thread, but my vet was out last week and I asked him about how tall she would get and he said that at a year old a horse is already 90 percent of their overall height and 60 percent of their overall weight. He said Luna would probably only get another inch or two taller. (She's 14 hh now.)









BTW, I think Scout is pretty cute!


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## ScoutRacer

I really hope your vet is wrong about being 90% done growing at 1 year because Scout is no where near that I hope........


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## kitten_Val

Depends on his start in life a lot. I got Jemma as 20 months old. She was 13 - 13'1 the most (she was in bad situation, btw). Tiny... Now (she's little over 4) she's 14'3'' (and that's what all earlier string measurements shown she should be with full growth). No one believed she can pick up the height, but with good food, turn out and care she certainly did (and I didn't gave her supplements, just 12% grain with corn oil and hay, some grazing). Same with my paint - came as 20 months old as 13'2 - 13'3 now she's 15'1 and under 4 years old (still growing though).


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## Vidaloco

Probably an old wives tale but I always heard the cannon bone will give an estimate of finished height. At around 18 months the cannon bone will be at its finished length. At that time if its 15" the horse will finish at 15hh :?


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## ArticMyst

You could try string testing him to see what he will be. I did on my horse when he was a little over a year old and It was pretty accurate for him. He ended up being just over what it came out to be. 

For a string test you take a string and measure from the middle of the knee down to the coronet. 1inch equals 1 hand.


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## Bucky's Buddy

Yeah, I know someone who's horse had to be put down when it ran into a barbed wire fence......didn't see the fence and ran into it. Speared by a T-post. Two different storied as to why, all but one person says the belgian chased him or her into the fence, but the one person thinks it was a cougar. The belgian is real pushy, but there have been cougar sightings around there.

Very cute, he will most likely fill out: He's kinda in (or before?) the gangly teenager stages, I'd say. My dogs both did that. 

As for keeping him a stallion, why not? I've heard of stallions kept for performance. 
Plus, another reason - maybe you want to keep him a stallion just for the heck of it!! 

Cute boy!!


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