# Horse Acting Normal + won't eat Grain



## liv4myhorses (Sep 23, 2015)

**My horse is not Colicing**


I have a 12 yr old tb who is fed his grain twice a day ( beet pulp, purina senior, biotin supplement and Biotic 8) and has free choice hay 24/7. He is also a cribber and has been since before I got him as a 4 year old. Within the last few weeks he will start to eat his grain and then stop to crib. Previously he would always finish his grain and then crib.
He is acting 100% normal other than the aversion to his grain. He is eating hay, passing manure, drinking, peeing and wondering around as he usually would. If I hold his feed tub up to him where he is cribbing he will finish.
I am not too concerned about getting grain in but would like to keep his supplements going in. 
Not sure if he is just cribbing more or doesn't like his feed/supplements all of a sudden.
Ideas appreciated.
I am watching him closely, he shows no signs of Colic.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Have you tried feeding him off the floor - using a feed tub of some sort - and holding him away from anything he can latch on to?


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## liv4myhorses (Sep 23, 2015)

Hi Jaydee, thanks for your reply. He is fed outside and yes his feed tub is typically on the ground... I haven't tried actually putting his halter on and holding him near his feed tub while it is on the ground though. Usually he eats and then cribs on the hitching post right beside where his feed is so I just pick it up and bring it to his face and he will eat more. Just is weird when he for as long as I have owned him would finish his grain then crib. They keep us thinking!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

They do that!!
Its a habit I would try to break if I was you


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Sounds like it could be ulcers. Cribbing can cause them, and being off grain is a symptom. Does he seem touchy, girthy, or crankier than usual? Not moving as well undersaddle?


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

There's actually no evidence that cribbing causes ulcers, cribbing has a calming effect so works as a stress reducer, ulcers can be caused by stress hence the reason the two things get linked.
That's not to say that the horse doesn't have ulcers, there could be something gong on that's stressing him out particularly at feed times which is making him crib while he's eating and causing ulcers


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I didn't know there wasn't actually any correlatable evidence between the two.

But going off grain is usually a sign of ulcers. Could be something unrelated started off the ulcers, maybe a show or new herd mate, and now eating grain aggravates it and stresses him more, which makes him want to crib more.

Many possibilities. If you want to treat, check out the Abler website.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

I'd agree that he might be off his grain because of ulcers. However, some horses just stop liking some type of grain for whatever reason, so you could also see if it's all grain or just that one type he's tired of. If you just want him to take the supplements, you could give a small amount of a grain he really likes with them.

A question I would have is whether you have tried to stop the cribbing. Perhaps you could put electric wire around the post he likes, or try a cribbing collar. Although cribbing is an annoying habit, the problem is that it has been linked to serious colic in horses. Apparently it increases intra abdominal pressure, and that may be one reason why it can cause colic or make colic worse.
Researchers Find Link between Cribbing, Abdominal Pressure | TheHorse.com

A horse I knew that cribbed died very young from a serious torsion colic. So I know the collars don't look nice and covering the posts in a field or replacing them for metal ones might be difficult. But it is a risk to let a horse continue to crib. You can also add fleece padding to the collars to help avoid any rubs.
Horse owner alert: Cribbing and Colic » Large Animal Hospital » College of Veterinary Medicine » University of Florida


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

You need to stop the cribbing. 

Ulcers were an interesting idea- TB, was he raced? I would look into that.

Also, I would cut back to the minimum for grain and see if he eats better then re add the supplements, some horses can be like "nah I don't want that any more" Which is fine (but a pain for us lol) but sounds like food isn't a priority. Does he usually chow down or just "eat".


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## AnalisaParalyzer (Apr 25, 2012)

First I would check for ulcers, since he's off his grain for the most part. Then, I would work on fixing the cribbing. 
I had a cribber for a while. He was really bad, he would take a bite, finish chewing, crib, repeat until his bucket was empty. Then he'd guzzle down a bunch of water, stand in the corner abd just go to town cribbing. We tried the metal over the wood...it chipped his teeth, but didn't stop the cribbing. So I tried a muzzle, he managed to hook the strip of metal on the front of it to the edge of the wood, and continue to crib. So we went with the collar. Worked wonders. He had to have it on all the time, except when being handled, so we bought those fleece seatbelt covers abd put them over the straps so he wouldn't get rubbed. We bought four, and would use two for a week, replace with the others, wash the two used one's and cycle them so the dirt abd sweat didn't cause problems. After I sold him, he was put out on 24/7 pasture, and the cribbing dwindled down. Now he apparently only cribs when stalled overnight for a show or camping trip. 

So I would suggest the collar to stop the cribbing.


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## liv4myhorses (Sep 23, 2015)

Thanks for all the replies. I spoke to my vet last week and she is wondering if its an ulcer acting up. I treated him a couple months ago for ulcers as we were suspicious of Ulcers. He is not acting like he is in pain otherwise, I have tested some common areas where horses show signs if they have ulcers and he doesn't react. He is currently not under saddle due to lack of time on my part. 
My vet recommended this:
- take supplements out see if he eats (did that this weekend and he finishes his food, added biotic 8 back in this morn and he was reluctant)
- check teeth, I had a look but am having vet out to look as well. At that point we will decide about treating again for ulcers based on what we find.


In terms of the cribbing he wears a miracle collar but will still crib, my hope is that it decreases the air getting in. I have tried in the past to completely stop him and it stresses him out to the point he walks to try to find a place to crib and doesn't graze enough and he drops weight. He only has a couple areas he can crib as the rest is electric so he can't destroy all my fencing.
Hoping that the vet can rule out teeth and provide a more detailed plan for treatment once she has checked him over.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Some horses will crib with one type of collar but not another.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> There's actually no evidence that cribbing causes ulcers, cribbing has a calming effect so works as a stress reducer, ulcers can be caused by stress hence the reason the two things get linked.
> That's not to say that the horse doesn't have ulcers, there could be something gong on that's stressing him out particularly at feed times which is making him crib while he's eating and causing ulcers



Cribbing is considered a stereotypical behavior, which horses develop to stress that over challenges their ability to adapt, and once developed, become 'habit', that often remains, even when that stress which caused it in the first place is removed
Horses that are never confined, rarely become cribbers.
Cribbing, stall weaving, and even self mutilation, have the same root. 

Here is the definintion of sterotypical behavior, or which cribbing is one, and the entire link follows


'Definition

These are learned behaviors. Carolyn Stull, PhD, University of California, Davis, defined them as "stereotypic behaviors that are repeated without any apparent or obvious purpose or function. Such behaviors involve a need-related drive that develops in an environment with inadequate opportunities for satisfying the need. Once established, a stereotypic behavior may become a need in itself."

Stereotypic Behaviors | TheHorse.com

Ulcers and cribbing are related because they share the same cause


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Recent studies have looked for relationships between specific management practices and the incidence of stereotypies. Authorities list a range of possible causes, including the effects of weaning (and early weaning), training, feeding, housing, and social contact. These reports cite the percentages of horses with stereotypies from 5-25%. However, it hasn't been proved that a stereotypy has a function and helps an animal deal with stress.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

My friend has a cribber and has several different collars for her.

lately she's been in this one. You don't have to keep it too tight, and she hasn't even tried to crib. It's called the Dare Cribbing Collar. She wears it 24/7 and it hasn't rubbed or anything - which was a problem with some of the others.

The Dare Cribbing Collar in Cribbing Collars / Chewing Control at Schneider Saddlery


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

A lot of 'new thinking' on cribbing seems to go against the idea of putting a collar or anything else on them to stop them doing it
Various trials have concluded that cribbing releases endorphins from the horse's brain which act like an opiate drug and they get addicted to the calming effect it gives them
When we collared our last OTTB he didn't stop trying to crib and actually got more fretful and if anything tried harder to do it so we stopped using the collar, he was happier without it and didn't have any 'negative's' as a result of not wearing it. If he was kept busy with attention or work he didn't crib at all but he'd do it in the field more than he did it in the stable


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

jaydee said:


> A lot of 'new thinking' on cribbing seems to go against the idea of putting a collar or anything else on them to stop them doing it
> Various trials have concluded that cribbing releases endorphins from the horse's brain which act like an opiate drug and they get addicted to the calming effect it gives them


Yes, they get addicted to it, but studies also have shown it puts horses at risk for serious colic, and horses die from it. To me that's like saying it's OK to abuse narcotics because people get addicted to the calming effect it gives them. While ignoring the potentially lethal side effects. Isn't it better to control the addiction and avoid the risk of death?


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