# A not so pleasant lesson...



## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

it was one of those off days....




 
its a link because it wouldnt upload so...yeah constructive critisism is encouraged!(just please dont be too harsh, shes an.....interesting pony)


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## Equuestriaan (Nov 5, 2008)

Lift your hands off her neck so you have more control. If she continues to refuse... you're carrying a crop, use it! As you're coming around the corner take your reins in one hand and smack her behind your leg. She needs to know you're in control. Good luck!


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## 1dog3cats17rodents (Dec 7, 2007)

Look up, and DON"T GET AHEAD! If you get ahead and she stops, it's a great way to jump the jump without the pony :-/ Hit her behind the leg HARD the second she want to stop, and if she stops, whack her and go right to the jump again. She's learned nothing bad happens if she refuses, you need to teach her otherwise.

But... You look really good coming up to the jump, and she's an adorable pony! Good luck!


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

it could be the lighting i had a horse that would repeatedly refuse jumps. i asked the vet if there was anything wrong with him and he said, its the lighting!


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## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

ive told her many times that im in charge. I was using the crop a lot that day. she has a huge attitude for being only 13.3 hands and 4 years old =P but thanks for all the advice!


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## moomoo (Feb 21, 2007)

Don't worry too much, everyone has bad days 

When you run out to the left, don't circle left. Pull on you right rein hard and go from a short distance rather than a joy ride round the arena. Also, on the approach after a run out, keep hold of your right rein and kick **** hard with your left leg. Buut not so much they run out the other way  

Good job for not giving up and it may also be the lighting (unless its just the video) 

 Hope this helped/made sense


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Don't be so hard on yourself. We have all been there and gone thru the exact same thing at one point or another. The pony looks a good little horse she just knows she worries you enough that she can start refusing and running passed the fence.

You can go over it because we have seen you go over the x-rail. That fence is actually not much taller than the x-rail but I think you worry yourself over it.

You need to keep your eye up, lift your hands off the neck(grab a chunk of mane if you need to when you are actually taking off for the jump) and leg leg leg! Keep that leg on and be assertive with your body that YOU WANT to get over that jump. The second you second guess yourself all your aids go out the window and your pony knows it, that's why she casually runs right passed it.

YOU CAN DO THIS. You are an excellent rider, when looking at the video it's obvious that this height of jump is good for you as you have the foundations down pat. I think you're just going thru that inner battle of not being sure if you can, something we all go thru, every single one of us 
Nothing can stop you from doing this


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## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

dont even reply to this kaycee!!!


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## Equuestriaan (Nov 5, 2008)

Kaycee?


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Who's kaycee? what did we miss??


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## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

oh nobody....just a girl that i dont really get along with


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## HorseLuva97 (Jan 29, 2009)

stubborn pony!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi there, You have a very cute pony - and you look like a rider who is willing to learn and grow......so please take my critique, from someone who cares.

99% of refusals - is rider error.

I will explain why - horses jump blindly. They rely 100% on their rider to guide them clearly, functionally and safely. 

Your horse cannot see the fence. They see it a few feet away from them - it is in 2's. Then the get closer, the fence now is 1. Then when they are 1, 2 strides away...they can no longer see the fence.

They rely SO MUCH ON US AS THEIR RIDERS TO DO OUR JOBS CORRECTLY. 

It is us who unbalances them. It is us who makes mistakes in the saddle, creating the domino effect. Not the horse.

There are many horses out there, who will jump for their rider, regardless of what is going on ontop of them - covering their riders patunks. These horses, are not teaching their riders anything.

You are lucky to have a pony who is trying to teach you.

YOU must beable to approach the fence RHYTHMICALLY, STEADY, FLUID, UNDER CONTROL and most importantly - FUNCTIONALLY.

*FORM:*

Your form in the saddle is very important. You are out, so is your horse. 

Lets talk about your form first and foremost - 

1) Stirrups too long. Shorten them a hole or two. Why do I say this? Look at how loud your legs are, and how little base of security you have in your tack. You need to shorten them, so that your lower leg and heels can be your base of security.

Everyone is telling you to not jump ahead - but lets ask what is physcially causing you jumping ahead. 

No base of security in your lower leg, no base of security in your heel. Because your leathes are a tad too long. 

Your legs are flying everywhere at the canter - which is also causing your seat to be very loud on approach to the fence.

*Your IRONS:*

2) They are way to far back on your foot. They should be at the ball of your toes - where the outside bar of the iron is at your pinky toe, and the inside of the bar of the iron at he ball of your big toe. 

Due to these 2 big issues.....your heels are not being permitted to do their job - which is ANCHOR YOU in your tack.

Once you get the correct length of your leathes, and the correct placement of your iron......allow your heels to do their job. Allow the weight from your upper body, flow thorugh your seat, down into your legs and down into your heels.

3) Your heels should be taking everything - all weight, all energy. 

*LEG PLACEMENT:*

4) Your legs should be - and always be - AT THE GIRTH. You are not just to be ontop of your horse, but you are to be wrapped around your horse. Imagine your leg getting long, allow the weight to flow into your heels, and lock your legs at the girth.

*I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DO ALLOT OF 2 POINT WORK ON AND OFF THE LUNGE LINE! *Get those leg muscles to remember where they need to always be - at the girth. Get those heels working and doing their job - taking all your bodies weight.

Due to lack of functionallity in your lower leg and heels - the domino effect of negative form over fences occurs.

You reach for a base of support in the wrong places of your body aka knee pinching, gripping, standing up in your irons etc, etc, etc - and you have now caused incorrect, unsafe form over fences.

Such as the picture if your Avatar - you are jumping ahead. All your bodies weight, is now tossed onto your horses forehand *shoulders* making his job, that much harder to get over the fence.

Your job, is to get him to the base of the fence in a rhythmical, steady, fluid, functional manner - his job is to get you over the fence. Without your important part...the rest cannot occur.

So your upper body, now flings forward, and your lower body, flings behind you. Your crotch goes over the pommel of your saddle and all of your weight, is now dispursed on your horses front end. 

Your weight, should always remain - 100% of the time, over the center of your horses gravity.

Fix your leathers, fix your irons, work on your heels and work on strengthening your lower leg to keep it at the girth.

Work on SITTING AND WAITING FOR YOUR HORSE to close the angle. That is HIS job - NOT yours. You must remain solid in your seat, and allow your horse to come up to you. 

Your upper body must remain tall, your seat must remain engaging, and your lower leg must support and lift. You must keep your shoulders back - where as instead...you are dropping them.

Remember - your horse is to lift you out of your tack, your horse is to close the angle..not you. You must remain solid and supportive.

What exactly is occuring - when your pony refuses? YOU. 

You are not approaching the fence rhythmically. You are not approaching the fence in a controlled manner. Your form is all over the place, you are unbalanced and not anchored in your tack, and then you drop your shoulders, and say "OK, NOW YOU DO IT" and your pony says " YEAH RIGHT"

You as your horses rider, must support your horse at all times, to, over and after a fence. 

Learn to remain solid in your seat. Sit and wait for your horse to LIFT you out of your tack - not the other way around. Your horse will do the rest.....that is not your job.

If I were your coach - I would take you away from the Verticle. I would put you on the lunge line and work, work, work on solidifying your body parts, to make you a more functional rider.

Also, when you are going around the corner to the fence - your horse is drifting to the outside, with his shoulder popped. His center of gravity is no longer under him and you are pulling head head to the inside.

He needs proper guidance from his rider.

*VEERING OUT OF THE FENCE*

Again, this is all due to rider error. You have not set your horse up accordingly to get over the fence properly. You are all over the place - again, this will come with correct lunge line work.

Someone told you to use your inside rein when he veers out - which is incorrect.

You use your OUTSIDE AIDS. But you cannot do this if you are not put together yourself on approach to the fence.

When you are approaching the fence, and you feel your horse starting to veer. Lets say he is veering to the left side of the fence.....You sit deep, use your left leg at his ribs and your left rein at his shoulders.

You want to keep that outside shoulder from popping out from under himself, and you want to keep his center of balance under him. 


If I let go of my lower leg with my TB at a fence, if I get ahead at a fence, if I drop my shoulders at a fence....my TB will drop me in a heart beat.

It takes a horse to refuse on you - to learn. 

I am suprised your coach hasn't worked on any of this with you.

All the best to you,


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## Equuestriaan (Nov 5, 2008)

All good advice but a little bit harsh, don't you think? She's just learning. You don't know that her instructor hasn't worked on any of this before, do you? Obviously she can't learn everything all at once, and I doubt her coach is at fault in any way. She's already learned how to post quietly and go with the motion of the horse, and she's learning the basics of jumping: How to put her hands on her horse's neck in the air to keep from hitting her mouth, and how to come on a straight approach. I think a lot of your advice came across as quite harsh:

"I am suprised your coach hasn't worked on any of this with you."

"You are not approaching the fence rhythmically. You are not approaching the fence in a controlled manner. Your form is all over the place, you are unbalanced and not anchored in your tack, and then you drop your shoulders, and say "OK, NOW YOU DO IT" and your pony says " YEAH RIGHT"

"No base of security in your lower leg, no base of security in your heel."

Sorry if it's just me but a lot of this comes off as unnecessarily negative.


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

Hey, we all have rough days! Good for you for not getting frustrated and giving up. The best thing to do is keep trying and end on a good note! Nice job


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Easy to misinterpret when all you see are words on a computer screen with no tone of voice or face expression.


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## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

it was a bad lesson okay? and yea, i interpreted it in a rude way also. my lesson today was much better. she got over the jumps no problem. shes only 4. it was just a bad day. i didnt need you to be acting like my trainer. ive been on the lunge line, worked on 2 pint, everything she was just cranky, i was cranky it was a bad day! why would you critiscise someone so much from seeing a BAD 3 minute video? jeez....i said dont be harsh ive done just about everything you said


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## Equuestriaan (Nov 5, 2008)

Hey LacyLove, something similar happened to me in a lesson, too! (3 years ago)


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## Iluvjunior (Feb 15, 2009)

i just watched it again and i noticed you were kinda looking down when you look down the horse goes and does what it wants to do you werent looking down big time but it looked like your head was looking down a little when you jump you want to look over he jump cause horses follow where you look


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## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

yes i know i was looking down, i just totally forgot that day, you were supposed to look straight and yet yesterday i looked up and boom boom straight over the bounces. i was surprised my trainer didnt notice...


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## missy06 (Apr 5, 2008)

I have to say, I'm a little surprised. LacyLove did post the video asking for constructive criticism. MIEventer provided that, in explicit detail, explaining why certain functions of riding and the body need to be working together to achieve a certain goal. Nowhere did she say anything that appeared rude or dismissive to the OP's riding.

Personally, if I posted something I wanted critiqued, I would be thrilled and appreciative to get a post as detailed and thoughtful as that. I know MIEventer was aiming to give some solid advice to Lacy and not to cut her down; the post makes that clear.

Just my two cents.


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## kchfuller (Feb 1, 2008)

your pony is really cute!

i noticed that every time you had a refusal, it is almost like you just kind of through yourself into your 2point and your pony said "sweet" and darted out to the right.... try and support support support your pony all the way through the jump(both with your legs, hands and seat). You may already know this but if not i hope it helps


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## IrishRider (Aug 7, 2008)

missy06 said:


> I have to say, I'm a little surprised. LacyLove did post the video asking for constructive criticism. MIEventer provided that, in explicit detail, explaining why certain functions of riding and the body need to be working together to achieve a certain goal. Nowhere did she say anything that appeared rude or dismissive to the OP's riding.
> 
> Personally, if I posted something I wanted critiqued, I would be thrilled and appreciative to get a post as detailed and thoughtful as that. I know MIEventer was aiming to give some solid advice to Lacy and not to cut her down; the post makes that clear.
> 
> Just my two cents.


Agreed. Now with that, let's move on.

First, ponies are inherently evil and almost everyone has there "bad pony experience". She's pretty cute but she's trying to get out of working and getting away with it.

I agree with that other poster that your trainer should have been a little more proactive in this lesson. How many times had your pony refused or run to the side of the fence before your trainer made you go over it anyway? And then after that she seemed to jump it much better. Now I don't feel that her refusals were in a dangerous form, they were her way of getting out of work. She slowed down quite a bit at the approach and so maybe you just need to give her a little more leg and keep your seat as you approach to encourage her to keep her pace.

Also, typically when a horse runs to the side of a fence, you know it's coming and you can correct it. If you feel her start to head to the left, you close your left leg and your left rein and bring her back to the middle of the jump.

It all comes with practice and riding in two-point or without stirrups to help build a stronger leg and your confidence. Everyone has cruddy lessons. Just take what you can from this one and apply it to your next one. Good luck!


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

I am going to disagree that the horse was veering because she wanted to "get out of working"

It was due to rider error - not prepared on approach. Not rhythmical on approach. Rider not balanced, not prepared, not centered on approach. The pony slowed down, because of rider error. The pony 

99% of errors, is rider. Not horse.

*This Pony is 4 years old, very green, and should be working on many of the basics first, before being put over a verticle. This pony is not only unprepared for the questions asked, but is not being guided accordingly. *

The pony should be doing lots of flat work, getting the basics and fundamentals under itself first. 

The refusals of course, were not dangerous in anyway what-so-ever. Horses don't think that way at all. 

The horse refused because of rider error.


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## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

im sorry, i got out of hand before i read over your post again, and i agree but shes been doing much MUCH better i really hate that video because i have done so much better the past 3 lessons. she has done 4 years of flat work....she was taught at meredith manor riding school...look it up lol


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Understandable - a picture takes only 1 moment thorughout your whole ride, and we all have bad rides and good rides.

My concern is that the pony is only 4 though. Take your time. This pony has along time ahead of her to learn how to jump accordingly.....it also concerns me that the pony who is 4, has been doing 4 years of flat work?

It's not my pony - regardless. None of my business....but what I am trying to say sweetie, is that do not point your finger at her......stop and look at what you are doing incorrectly in the saddle, to be causing the outcome you are getting....regardless of what mount you have under you.

The pony is very green, 4 years old. You have to know how to ask the correct questions clearly....so that your mount can answer them corectly.

Does that make sense?

99% of errors...is rider. Well, maybe 90%. lol


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## LacyLove (Feb 12, 2009)

well, more like three she is turning 5 very very soon and i know know, but if you would have seen us yesterday, you would think of her as a great pony who knows a lot for her age! haha i guess im just trying to prove myself and it isnt really working...


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

You don't need to prove yourself to anyone!  There is no wrong or right, no matter what everyone in the horse world says. You're out there doing what you love, and I think that is all that matters. Horses and riding is an exploration, a learning process, and a chance to make all kinds of discoveries and choices.


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