# I'm Still having problems, Please help



## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

In my other thread i talked about this western bit I had that hasn't seemed to be working. I tried using my rope halter on him and i even had a good horsie friend to help me and he was still doing this backing up thing and rufused to turn left or right, and i tried taking him in sharp circle but he would only do a half of a circle? I got the curb bit i orded and tried it on him with my friend still there and she says she thinks he must be acting this way even with the bit i got him, i tried doing short circles and he raised his head really high? he must not like the bit? what should i do?

My other horsie friends went on him and he would be okay at first but once we kept riding even more and he would be more and more of a pain? please help.


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## Jacksmama (Jan 27, 2010)

I'd look into mouth and/or back pain.


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

I don't think you have a bitting problem - I think you have a horse that needs to be evaluated for fitness for use (as Jacksmama said) and then evaluated from a training perspective - preferably by someone who can watch you with him as well as evaluate him on his own to see if it is a problem with his training or with something specific to how you are approaching things.


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## BornToRun (Sep 18, 2011)

When did you last have his teeth floated?


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

Often it is an equipment or pain issue, or a combination of both. Look into his teeth, back, saddle. 

Although sometimes its just a training issue. Rule out the other things first, and then address his behaviour. If you've tried a rope halter (without a bit), and a bit, and still had problems its likely not the bit. Check out saddle and back, make sure his teeth are up to date. I'd probably guess back pains if it were my own horse, possibly exacerbated by a poorly fitting saddle.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

You bought that really awful bit, though, didn't you? You can't direct-rein with that. He's probably confused (and having mouth pain).

1. Get his teeth checked and probably floated.
2. Have a professional trainer come out and evaluate him so see if it's a training issue, a pain issue, a tack issue, or a 'you' issue.
3. Look into other, better bits, like the ones you were advised about on your other thread.


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## BornToRun (Sep 18, 2011)

^^ Just because one person didn't have a good experience using something, doesn't mean that someone else can. We all have a right to our own opinions. I agree, the tom thumb is a hunk of junk, but I've had good experiences using a curb. Not saying that others have not. I'm just saying, maybe it would be best to tell others that YOU don't like it and YOU think it's a 'horrible' bit, instead of telling them what they should and shouldn't buy. 

Curb bits are designed to be activated by the slightest movement in a slack rein. Applying direct pressure on a curb rein applies pain in the mouth, chin, and the top of the head.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Unless I'm mistaken, the OP bought one of the above. Which cannot be used for direct-reining, and is very badly balanced, besides.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, the OP bought one of the above. Which cannot be used for direct-reining, and is very badly balanced, besides.


I have seen this bit used as a toilet paper holder on several outhouse walls, that should be a clue, no?


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## BornToRun (Sep 18, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> Unless I'm mistaken, the OP bought one of the above. Which cannot be used for direct-reining, and is very badly balanced, besides.


Yes, I know Op bought that, and I know it's not supposed to be used for direct reining. What I was saying was, others can dislike it all they want, but that wont stop others from having good use and experience with the bit. I have not had problems with it thus far. And believe it or not, people still _like _and _use_ tom thumbs.


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## lubylol (Aug 8, 2011)

I use a tom thumb and don't have a problem with it lol. I agree with BornToRun. Just because you have had a bad experience with a bit and don't like it, doesn't mean you should bash it. Every rider and every horse is different and work better with other bits, therefore it's a personal preference. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

And a bonus, if the horse doesn't like it, you can use it as a toilet paper holder!


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

I believe what bubba is trying to say is she can not direct rein him which is what she is trying to do which this bit is not built for. Nothing was mention about a tom thumb.


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## BornToRun (Sep 18, 2011)

BarrelracingArabian said:


> I believe what bubba is trying to say is she can not direct rein him which is what she is trying to do which this bit is not built for. Nothing was mention about a tom thumb.


The tom thumb is a reference to a thread OP started about western bits.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Yes but in bubbas post she was not talking about the tom thumb she was talking about the pictured bit which is not a direct rein bit, if the OP were neck reining then it would be a different story but assuming she isn't then this bit would most likely upset her already sensitive horse.


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## BornToRun (Sep 18, 2011)

BarrelracingArabian said:


> Yes but in bubbas post she was not talking about the tom thumb she was talking about the pictured bit which is not a direct rein bit, if the OP were neck reining then it would be a different story but assuming she isn't then this bit would most likely upset her already sensitive horse.


Yes, I am aware the curb is not used for direct reining. That's been established. I'm close friends with OP and I KNOW she reins, if she switched from direct reining to neck reining, the bit might not be a problem for her.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

That is what we were trying to say. So if she has already tried neck reining and keeping a loose rein on him and he is still acting the way he is then it is most likely a pain issue and not the bit particularly


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## BornToRun (Sep 18, 2011)

BarrelracingArabian said:


> That is what we were trying to say. So if she has already tried neck reining and keeping a loose rein on him and he is still acting the way he is then it is most likely a pain issue and not the bit particularly


But how do we know if she was direct reining or neck reining, because it doesn't say.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

A curb bit will not allow for lateral bending...a snaffle bit will. And no, a tom thumb, despite it's broken mouth peice, is not a 'proper' snaffle bit, so you cannot direct rein with that bit, either. If you are going to be trying to use one rein to turn this horse in tight circles, you need a bit designed for that, like a loose ring snaffle. 

If you are neck reining, be sure you are not actually pulling on the bit with the opposite rein (thus pulling his head up, with the bit), I see this ALOT with people who neck rein; neck reining should be subtle, without alot of pulling on the mouth at all. 

It sounds like this horse 1) needs to be double checked for pain 2) have his teeth checked, and floated if need be 3) have a refresher course in the basics of respect for his handler/rider.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Nobody knows for sure it was advice almost an assumption. If she was trying to get him to go into a tight circle I'm assuming she was pulling with one rein and he was throwing his head up to get away from the pressure and/or pain as that is not how the bit is supposed to be used.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

not to hijack the thread, but how does one know that that bit is badly balanced? I am afraid that I would not know a "badly balanced" curb bit from a nicely balanced one, so I need to learn.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

They're very lightweight, for one. Chrome plate over steel, generally--which can chip and be abrasive. Fixed mouth, and no contour around the outside, so any rotation at all causes them to dig into the external lips and jaw. You pull on this bit at all and it has no give whatsoever, so the slightest nudge on the reins sends it off center and out of alignment, creating a painful condition. There's no looseness anywhere, so no chance for presignal, either. Just pick it up and feel it, too, and you can tell that its center of gravity is off.

Here's another hint: Amazon.com: Chrome Curb Bit withLow port 5IN: Pet Supplies


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

I'm not a fan of that style at all, honestly, but at least this one is finished and balanced better:










But if I had my way and wanted a grazing-type curb bit, I'd go with this one:


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

I'm going with BornToRun, I have been neck reining. But i have been using light touches, and he would only raise his head when i would stop him.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Whispering willow whether you are neck reining or use purely a direct rein is almost moot at this point. In your original thread you asked advise on buying a better bit, we all gave suitable suggestions for quality bits that may help with you problem.(Even though it turned into yet another debate about TT...sorry) yet you went bought another crappy bit. 
IMO if you come and ask advise then don't follow it and then come back again because it still isn't working it probably isn't going to be well received. Now I am not saying just because we suggested something you have to do it, afterall any advice you get on a forum, is just free advice. But you had posted the bit you had bought to replace the TT and were told the bit was just as crappy and still not a good choice. Obviously there may be other factors to your problem other than the bit choice, but at least when you get those problems resolved maybe you could get him a decent bit that he will be happy with. Don't you think your horse is worthy of decent equipment that he will be happy working in?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

Cowchick, but it didn't work with or without a bit??? so where in what world are you comming from?! How can you be sure it's the bit at all?


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

this is the bit i got guys XP


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Have his teeth been floated? Have you had someone show you the proper way to neck rein? Can you get a video? Have you had a professional trainer hop on him?


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

whispering willow said:


> Cowchick, but it didn't work with or without a bit??? so where in what world are you comming from?! How can you be sure it's the bit at all?


I apologize for the bitchiness....I know better than to post before my pot of coffee. I had missed the part where you had rode him in the halter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

Thats okay Cowchick  And Bubba13, Yes too all of them!! This sorta thing always just happens in the winter time. I asked the old owner if he rode alot in the winter time and she said yes.


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

It sounds like he has your number then, and just plain needs a HUGE wake up call in respect and a few good sweaty work outs to get him to realize that just because it's winter doesn't mean he doesn't have to work. If you can't get him to work well, then find someone who can, and have them give him a couple of good lessons, and then have them show you how to keep him going when he get's stubborn and lazy. 

That's IF and ONLY if he has truly been vetted and had his teeth checked and floated, to rule out any pain issues that could be causing his issues.


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

mom2pride said:


> A curb bit will not allow for lateral bending...a snaffle bit will. And no, a tom thumb, despite it's broken mouth peice, is not a 'proper' snaffle bit, so you cannot direct rein with that bit, either. If you are going to be trying to use one rein to turn this horse in tight circles, you need a bit designed for that, like a loose ring snaffle.
> 
> If you are neck reining, be sure you are not actually pulling on the bit with the opposite rein (thus pulling his head up, with the bit), I see this ALOT with people who neck rein; neck reining should be subtle, without alot of pulling on the mouth at all.
> 
> It sounds like this horse 1) needs to be double checked for pain 2) have his teeth checked, and floated if need be 3) have a refresher course in the basics of respect for his handler/rider.


^^All this and 4) taught to neck rein. There doesn't seem to be any proof that the horse actually has progressed that far in his training. (or did I miss it?) Unless the horse knows neck reining and a solid mouthpiece, you're just putting a confusing curb bit inside its mouth.


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

I actually just got a hold of the old owner and asked what bit he preferred and she said that he preferred a hackmore and a rope halter, he preferred no bit at all! But that doesn't explain the not working with the rope halter i used? I'll get the vet to check him over again.


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

but i think its because he's lazy in the winter, because he never does this in the summer, in the summer he's an angle


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

oh and my friend rode him before in a rope halter  i remember buddy


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Can you post a video of you riding him?


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

Sure, i'll try today


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

oh wait, i just thought of something, could this problem happen to why when horses are around? Because now that there is ice every where but my pasture,i ride in the pasture with the other horses.


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## annaleah (Jul 6, 2010)

waresbear said:


> I have seen this bit used as a toilet paper holder on several outhouse walls, that should be a clue, no?


What a great idea! I've been looking for creative ideas for a toilet paper roll! Thanks!


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

what is with you girls and toilet paper rolls?


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

whispering willow said:


> oh wait, i just thought of something, could this problem happen to why when horses are around? Because now that there is ice every where but my pasture,i ride in the pasture with the other horses.


Wait--you're riding in the pasture with other horses, and that's the only time he does it? Where do you ride him the rest of the time? This is starting to sound like a case of herdsourness....


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## whispering willow (Nov 9, 2011)

well i ride him in the pasture and on the trails that's it. but he does have a best friend in the herd. How can I make this better? or can you?


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Yes, it's fixable. But tough love. Riding in a pasture with other horses isn't really a great idea to begin with, but I'll admit I do it. The other horses MUST be safe and mind their own business, though. Basically, for your horse, it involves tough love. You just have to make him mind if he keeps pulling you toward the others. Use your leg and kick him if you have to to get him going in the direction you want. Get his attention and make him focus on YOU by working on trotting circles. You have to keep him from fading out by holding your outside leg on him at all times, and making sure his head and body both keep moving in the direction you choose.


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