# New to Parelli. :)



## We Control The Chaos (Sep 19, 2007)

Hey everyone. I am getting Parelli "On Line" for Christmas to start with my 8YO Quarter Horse Gelding. I have researched up on it a lot, and im VERY excited. I would like to know everyone's feedback on using Parelli. Sucess, Downfalls, Stories?

I want to get off on the right start so hints would be great too. 

thanks so much!


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## Snapple122 (Aug 8, 2008)

I think you're wasting your money. 
But I won't get into it because there's already a thread on parelli and why it's not worth it. 
just my opinion


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

Personally, I LOVE it. I have seen a HUGE dramastic change in my horse for the better. He's less spooky, trusts me more, and is more trustworthy. 

I highly recommend the Success Series and many many people suggest the Liberty & Horse Behaviour DVDS (quite expensive though, but worth the money from what I've heard). Also being a Savvy Club member ($20 a month...they have lifetime and annual plans also) gives you access to lots of videos (including Bloopers lolol...only 2 though hehe), articles, member locator, and access to the Parelli Savvy Club Forum (something I couldn't live without). Also every month you will get either their Magazine (Savvy Times) or a Training video. Definately worth the $20 in my opinion.

I have some Parelli videos up on my youtube account that you can watch. Not the best because I'm still in the learning process, but it's gotten better to where we were.

I love the fact that Parelli catagorizes horses into "horsenalities"...only because you can't possibly treat one horse the same as another. They are all unique...so they give you tips on how to handle situations if your horse is this horsenality or crosses and waht not.
My horse Sonny is a Left Brain Introvert, Left Brain Extrovert, and Right Brained Extrovert cross. He's all over the sheet. It helps me to know how to go about teaching him things, reacting to him if he does something wrong, and more insight to him in general.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. 

I have never had any downfalls from Parelli, only good things.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

I use to be very against parelli but now im a firm believer!! Ive seen dramatic changes in my mare since I start level 1! I use to have to fight her with everything and anything we did! Now she takes the bit basiclly offers to put it in her mouth! I can now ride her bitless and mind this is a 5 yr old mare that was a pasture horse who was never bothered with till 9 months ago when I bought her. We have an AMAZING bond that I wouldnt change for the world! 

anyways enough about me!

I recommend you get the lvl 1 lots of great information! Get it on ebay for cheaper! And you can get non brand products exact same as parelli for a TON less at halfcircleranch.com!

Hopefully I will become a savvy member soon! 

Ill have videos up soon! I accually have on up in the vid section but its not good we were both has pretty low energy that day haha

If you want to know more from my experience PM me as well  I just getting started really.


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## We Control The Chaos (Sep 19, 2007)

thanks for the feedback.


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## Snapple122 (Aug 8, 2008)

We're not against Parelli himself. we're against how rediculously priced all the stuff is, and it's all pretty much common sense.


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

I second the Ebay thing. I, myself, am a Roberts kinda person (so I don't have advice on the Parelli aspect of this) but in looking around I've seen many things on Ebay for much cheaper for Parelli, Roberts, Anderson etc. Very often used is as good as new too. Just have to be careful to make sure it's not broken before you buy it. 

Good Luck!


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

ebay is a great place to get used training stuff....I haven't gotten anything from there only because my parents are anti-ebay (they don't trust the site  )


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I am not a fan of parelli. 
I think it's all common sense which I guess can be helpful if you are new to horses. 
Please don't JUST follow parelli though.


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Before the fire gets turned up, lets remember the questions the OP asked 

I did parelli for a few months and didn't really enjoy it. I actually found that my mare was more spooky and dominant than she was before. Since I have stopped, she has settled down a lot and is quite calm.

A lot, if not all, of Parelli is common sense stuff, but they just put a different spin on it. While you can get everything used, in every magazine and DVD they're always promoting a different product, that you're going to want and you're going to want to buy... I'm not even going to get into the prices of their tack...

I do encourage you to take bits and pieces from a lot of different trainers and mesh them all together and come up with your own. 

But if you do stick with parelli, keep an open mind:wink:


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## Midwest Paint (Oct 21, 2008)

appylover31803 said:


> I do encourage you to take bits and pieces from a lot of different trainers and mesh them all together and come up with your own.


I could not have said it any better and agree 100%!


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

i will only comment to agree with appylovers post. its really good to learn from the different trainers and not base your training around one. not everything works for every horse and learning different ways from different people gives you a larger range of options to work with. i have modelled what i do with my horses around bits and pieces from many trainers incl. anderson, lyons, roberts and then theres what my dad taught me and what i have figured out myself through watching how they interact in a herd and also by using my common sense. 

im not saying you shouldnt do parelli but keep an open mind and try to gather as much information as you can from all different places and build a program that works for you from there

good luck with it all


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## DarkChylde (Nov 13, 2008)

I am a big PonyBoy fan myself, a slightly different technique and WAYYY less expensive. I am also on his fan forum with any of my own questions, and have found a gold mine of helpful advice there.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree with learning more than one method. While mine leans heavily on Pony Boy and Ray Clements, I have studied the 'biggies' until I got the basic technique down. I now have my own modified version that works very well for me. Be open minded, and flexible, and if something doesn't work out it isn't the horse's fault, bear that in mind, it is up to you to adapt.

Good luck!!


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

DarkChylde said:


> I am a big PonyBoy fan myself, a slightly different technique and WAYYY less expensive. I am also on his fan forum with any of my own questions, and have found a gold mine of helpful advice there.
> 
> I completely and wholeheartedly agree with learning more than one method. While mine leans heavily on Pony Boy and Ray Clements, I have studied the 'biggies' until I got the basic technique down. I now have my own modified version that works very well for me. *Be open minded, and flexible, and if something doesn't work out it isn't the horse's fault, bear that in mind, it is up to you to adapt.
> *
> Good luck!!


so very very true


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

you can easily get a carrot stick for 18 bucks and the halter and rope hackamore for a LOT less as well. I dont want to get into Appys comment because she kinda knows what I think. You can just PM us if you need to know more  But i have to agree dont stick with just one method but I mesh a few in my im at least 87% parelli.

I think if she wants to do this then dont try and change her mind let her find out herself and if it works for her horse.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

On the Parelli items, you pay for quality...they are all extremely well made. That's one of the reasons they are so expensive. I've been through 2 off brand carrotsticks. The first one snapped in half (the actual stick), then the rope on the second one broke and the leather strap came off the stick. (not fun when I was riding with the string around his neck *shudders* lol he didn't do anything bad, just thought that he could be in control then :lol

But I do second (as I said before) the Halfcircleranch.com and ebay. You can get some good deals there

I'm 100% Parelli methods, I tried incorperating other methods in (I tried some CA, the join-up guy...can't remember his name...sorry way too early in the morning for me, and then some of Chris Cox). My horse did not like the mix, but other horses may.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

It's great that you are excited about Parelli, I think as long as you go into this experience with your mind open you can really enjoy yourself... If you run into problems, go to friends or a trainer, or even this board and get some feedback...


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

Also, I dont know if you have the opportunity but you could go to a tack swap. Like I said, I am not into Parelli, but when I went to one last weekend I think I was the only one. There were plenty of DVDs and accessories so you may want to look into that


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## DarkChylde (Nov 13, 2008)

Yeah, that is a good idea, ask on these forums for anyone selling or would consider selling the set, even the stick thing and junk for a bargain. I borrowed the set of DVDs to learn, I learned his stuff that way, and returned them when I was done and it cost nothing.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

SonnyWimps said:


> On the Parelli items, you pay for quality...they are all extremely well made.


I hear they have spiffy $50.00 colored savvy strings for the levels as well.:wink:

Anyone have some baler twine and paint?


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

Kinda been waiting for this: :lol:
Actually, Spyder, you are wrong. Yes, I believe you CAN buy the colored savvy strings (but not sure....actually if they do sell them they don't list them on their website at all)....BUT for each level you pass you get the colored savvy string....for FREE....it is sent with your certificate to say "congrats you have passed level 1" (or whatever level)


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

Hmmm Sonny so all I need to do is find the right color for the highest .50 cent string and voila I am at the top.

Yahoo !!!!!!!!!!


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## Eagle eye 1 (Nov 27, 2008)

After watching Parelli on RFD a few times I got sick of him. He talks a lot without saying much. I also watch Craig Cameron, Clinton, and Chris Cox.

In the end I decided that Chris Cox tells you a lot more than just how to do something. He tells you why and he does it in a way that clicks with me. Clinton's training clicks for me too. The Monty Roberts "join-up" was pretty awesome. I got "join - up" with a mare that wasn't progressing real well. That was awesome!!!!

It might just be different strokes for different strokes, but to me it is obviuos that Parellis have a plan to sell, sell, sell. I want training that works for me.

I was not impressed.

Eagle Eye 1


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

You cant buy the color savvy strings you can only buy the original white ones... and why .. oh nvm im not gonna ask spyder.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I think each of these said "Natural" horsemanship trainers can make some good points that could be used in a more useful training approach, but I think that the whole Natural Horsemanship gig is... well, just that. Gig. Scheme. 

I really don't think they can say "Watch as I do this on my already trained demo horse and then you, an amateur, can go out and do it yourself simply by watchin my video!" Yeah, right.

You can watch videos all you want but if you want to do something real, get out there and work with a reputable trainer, because if you don't understand exactly how and why they are doing whatever is they are doing, you're pretty much just asking for a disaster. 

In my opinion.

Good luck.


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## jazzyrider (Sep 16, 2007)

back on topic please guys. for anyone who has yet again forgotten the conscientious etiquette policy please read it again.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

> I really don't think they can say "Watch as I do this on my already trained demo horse and then you, an amateur, can go out and do it yourself simply by watchin my video!" Yeah, right.
> 
> You can watch videos all you want but if you want to do something real, get out there and work with a reputable trainer, because if you don't understand exactly how and why they are doing whatever is they are doing, you're pretty much just asking for a disaster.


I don't know about the other NH trainers (Chris Cox, John Lyons or however his last name is spelt) but Parelli says that to get the training correct and to truely learn their methods that it is best to go through one of their Professional Trainers.


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## We Control The Chaos (Sep 19, 2007)

everyone has good opinions. different things work differently for different people. Parelli is good for me for various reasons like there are A LOT of people at my stable that use Parelli, including trainers. Natural Horsemanship can be taught different ways. Thanks for all the good wishes.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

yay 

About the already trained demo horses. I've seen Linda work with horses that buck, rear and try and run you over! Shes even fallen off one of the buckers and in the end the horse is far from perfect when shes done but they are 10x better then when she started!


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

I never would have done Parelli if it were not for my BO that does parelli and everyone else at my stables. I'm extremely lucky to be at a Parelli stables so I can ask anyone and they can help me. I feel that if I didn't have help with it I defiantely would have done alot of stuff wrong...and with Parelli if your horse gets bored and hates it, it's because you are doing it wrong.

Yeah NH can be taught different ways and some work better for your horse than others. I found that Down Under Horsemanship (Clinton Anderson) really only worked for dominant horses (pure dominent)...but if your horse has nervous tendencies it doesn't work (again normally...did not work for my horse because he has nervous tendencies).

The one reason why I liked Parelli is because they do take into account that not all horses will react the same to an object. And they use different approaches depending on how your horse reacts. 

Goodluck with Parelli!!!! Do keep us informed on how you two are doing!!!!


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## We Control The Chaos (Sep 19, 2007)

I will. 

2 weeks. I am also lucky to be at a very Parelli Savvy barn  
I see people (mainly adults) doing Parelli all the time.
They are very excited to see the teenagers getting into it.


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## jeddah31 (Jun 11, 2008)

Pat Parelli recently did a show in Australia and made a huge idiot of himself.

He was incredibly rude to his volunteer and he rigged it. He made the audience clap and cheer when his volunteer had the two horses, to make the horses crazy because the arena was freaking them heaps out already. Then he'd make everyone sit still and not move from their seats when he had the horses so they'd appear calm. He said they were like that due to incorrect handling and their owner made them go crazy.. thinking that the audience wouldn't realise what he was doing.

He's just another person out their to make money, putting his name on everything. I don't think it's worth it


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I don't want to get involved in another debate over this but I will offer my opinion on the matter. If you have parelli and follow his methods and it works for you then that's great. Some people have great success following his program and others like him. For some people, trying to follow his program is nothing more than a disaster on 4 legs.  I personally don't follow any well-known NH trainer because I have been around horses all my life and most of the things that they show are just common sense. I do think that if you look around, you can find items just like what they sell for a lot less money. All I ask is that you keep an open mind and remember that Parelli is not the "only" way or the "perfect" way to train a horse and still have a great relationship. I wish you tons of luck and by all means, come back with any questions that you may have and I'm sure that someone would be able to give good advise to help through the tough times.  I also agree with an earlier post that said just look around and take parts of other training programs also until you find something that works well for you.


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## Kincsem (Oct 27, 2008)

I was wondering if anyone has tried Stacy Westfall's training methods since no one has mentioned her. Her DVD's show trained and untrained horses and students with their horses. She won a competition with other trainers one year and I was impressed with her bridless riding.


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## Amanda Marie (Dec 2, 2008)

I actually just got in to parelli at the end of the summer, & actually bought the Success Series on ebay (love ebay!). What I love most about Parelli is the whole 'psycological aproach' when it comes to training. I really like the ideas for the human/horse relationship and bonding, and understanding how your horse sees you in terms of how they think based on your interaction with it.


But so far, I'm not sure if I want to do everything the way that they are showing to do it on the videos. Though I completely understand where they are coming from with most of it, I just don't think that I want to really do it 'that way'. So I guess I'm just taking what I like out of the dvd's. So far what I have taken out of the DVD's have been INCREDIBLY helpful, because I was having some problems with my horse when she came back home. She went from being completely insecure, nervous, and timid, to an absolute loving puppy dog. So I can honestly say that the Parelli videos have helped me considerably. Though I really like Parelli for their ideas and ways of understanding and communicating with your horse, I definately am going to look in to other trainers as well. I mean, there's so many different aspects and realms of the horse world, I can't really imagine one person being 'right'.  For every trainers way of doing things, there's usually a pretty good reason behind it as to why they do it that way.


But all in all, I think Parelli is a good way of opening your mind up to the fact that the two of you should work together... It's the easiest way to prevent butting heads later on.


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## DarkChylde (Nov 13, 2008)

I just ADORE Stacy Westafallen, she is the one that has gotten me interested in reining.


I would say you are doing the right thing, it is MUCH better to adapt his technique to yourself, not blindly follow ANYONE (not even my idol, Pony Boy). That is exactly what I did as well, and now I have my own system that works just great for me, all my horses have no 'issues' and I have one deaf horse I had to completely retrain and a food aggressive kicker that is now good as gold and a stud colt who is a doll.

Sorry if that was off topic.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

Kincsem said:


> I was wondering if anyone has tried Stacy Westfall's training methods since no one has mentioned her. Her DVD's show trained and untrained horses and students with their horses. She won a competition with other trainers one year and I was impressed with her bridless riding.


Personally, I don't like Stacy Westfall. I've read and heard some pretty nasty stuff about her and I'd never support her in any way. 

The reason why I do love Parelli so much is that there is nothing "shady". He's out in the open about everything and haven't ever heard any horror stories about him even with people who hate him.



> I actually just got in to parelli at the end of the summer, & actually bought the Success Series on ebay (love ebay!). What I love most about Parelli is the whole 'psycological aproach' when it comes to training. I really like the ideas for the human/horse relationship and bonding, and understanding how your horse sees you in terms of how they think based on your interaction with it.


Yes I do love that about Parelli too! As do I love how they recognize that not all horses will react the same or have one horsenality.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

What did you hear about Stacy Westfall, Sonny? I have never heard anything bad at all from her and have been researching her techniques lately myself. 

Parelli -is- out in the open. I had a problem when he openly was jumping a foal over logs. (and how he openly scams people). Your right though, I have never heard any stories about him abusing horses. I really disagree with jumping the foal but that's about all I got. I am curious to see what you have heard about Stacy...I personally think she is great.


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## SonnyWimps (Feb 22, 2008)

> "This is probably one of the worst horsemanship groundwork training DVD's I have ever seen. NOt only is the production poor but She seems to not understanding the horse's body language or what it is trying to convey to her at all. She ignores all emotional and physical signs from the horses and teaches them that they are wrong for giving feedback of how they are feeling.
> 
> The horses in the demonstrations look braced, tense, and afraid. They are reacting and are far from responding. They are clearly not happy to be working with her. She even sais in her verbal explanations that she Forces them to respond. I honestly cannot see how she gets any positive communication from the horses at all.
> 
> ...


-From a review on one of her Training DVDs
Not my cup of tea


But I think we are off topic enough....


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

that is ONLY a review, and people are going to say harsh things. Look up some of the stuff on review places.

I would be more likely to believe an article, than a review. JMHO though


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

" I would be more likely to believe an article, than a review. JMHO though" 

That's more what I was expecting as well....


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I don't know anything about her training techniques but she's pretty neat to watch!


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I wouldn't take an opinion piece such as a review as the truth about her training methods... I find it hard to believe that she can work in such harmony with her horses, performing similar movements/abilities as parelli himself could achieve those results without an effective relationship with her horses. there are many types of relationships, and she may simply seek a different type of relationship than parelli.


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## RusticWildFire (Jul 6, 2008)

Sonny, I don't think it is a good idea to base your opinion on a review...There are PLENTY of bad things said about Parelli on the internet.. Even on this forum as you have seen but you are obviously having luck with him and don't believe any of it.


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## toosexy4myspotz (Oct 7, 2007)

I love parelli and his way of teaching and training without forceful methods but I cant stand alot of people that practice parelli. One of the girls I used to board with would walk into the field with her whip, AKA carrot stick and start flicking it at the horses to get them to back up. That is NOT a parelli method. Poco charged the girl when she done this. It was rude and threatening to the horses. Yes, I use a lunge when it is appropriate but my horse is in no way shape or form the least bit afraid of it. I just hate the fack that people start parelli and turn it into there own form and start abusing his methods.


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## DarkChylde (Nov 13, 2008)

That is exactly what has happened to Parelli, his great fame was also his drawback, as every Tom, **** and Harry that wanted to call themselves Parelli trainers have slandered his name so bad.... Same for them all, but not to the extent Parelli has. Their great marketing also became thier greatest drawback.


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## We Control The Chaos (Sep 19, 2007)

Different things work for different people and horses. Obviously not everyone agrees on Parelli and his methods. But in a general prespective he uses Natural Horsemanship. So does everyone else that has been brought up in this topic. Each person just has a different way of teaching it. No one has a "bad method" or is "wrong". Of course you shouldnt JUST rely on one way of teaching but that doesn't mean its bad, or that it doesnt work. Because it does work. We all have something in common in the fact that we want a stronger relationship with our horses. So instead of arguing over which method is better and who is wrong, why don't we talk about how each training method is different (compare and contrast) and how they are alike in a positive manner. Who knows? Maybe there would be a way to combine the training (not the popularity issue) together. In the end... let's just stop arguing and accept that we all believe in different things. 

I appreciate all of the tips I have gotten on my start in Parelli. I will keep my progress updated


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## Dumas'_Grrrl (Apr 2, 2008)

Well said WCTC! Keep an open mind! 

I wish you the best of luck and PLEASE do keep us updated!


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

We Control The Chaos said:


> Different things work for different people and horses. Obviously not everyone agrees on Parelli and his methods. But in a general prespective he uses Natural Horsemanship. So does everyone else that has been brought up in this topic. Each person just has a different way of teaching it. No one has a "bad method" or is "wrong". Of course you shouldnt JUST rely on one way of teaching but that doesn't mean its bad, or that it doesnt work. Because it does work. We all have something in common in the fact that we want a stronger relationship with our horses. So instead of arguing over which method is better and who is wrong, why don't we talk about how each training method is different (compare and contrast) and how they are alike in a positive manner. Who knows? *Maybe there would be a way to combine the training (not the popularity issue) together*. In the end... let's just stop arguing and accept that we all believe in different things.
> 
> I appreciate all of the tips I have gotten on my start in Parelli. I will keep my progress updated




I think that's what a lot of people do. Parelli is good for understanding basic horsmanship. If you need to call it horseanalities or whatever term he decides to give it fine. Maybe then you move onto Monty Roberts to do join up and establish a herd between you and your horse. Then onto Clinton Anderson for riding. 

I think that was what some people were trying to say. Parelli just markets the crap out of common sense. But everyone needs to understand how horses thing. So that's a good first step. However I really think you are boxing yourself in by just doing parelli, especially when it comes to riding. (I personally really like Kira Kirkland for riding). 


Each individual trainer excells in one specific area. For Parelli I think it is giving a laymen explanation for equine behavior. There have been tons of boards about NH and their pros and cons. A lot of people on this board disagree with Parelli for various reasons. But I think almost everyone thinks it is a good idea to pull techniques and ideologies from different trainers so you can come up with the best training plan to fit you and your horse.


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## Dartanion (Dec 8, 2008)

*I got up to Level 3 parelli with my TB mare and I never had a carrot stick I just used a whip but never needed to smack her with it. I had a similar parelli halter but I never noticed a difference in the horse not using the "esactly right" products lol. Dartanion however just doesn't need parelli like my mare did so I'm out of parelli for the most part.*


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## We Control The Chaos (Sep 19, 2007)

i will be keeping an open mind. no worries on that one. may i remind you, that i am just starting. i don't know what will work for me. but i know a lot of people that have used parelli at my stable and it is convient to have that.


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## Spastic_Dove (Oct 4, 2007)

I realize you are just starting which is why I think Parelli may be a good trainer for you to start with. =) Good luck.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

well say Appylover31803, that should be placed on all trainer/ clinicains


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

Kentucky said:


> well say Appylover31803, that should be placed on all trainer/ clinicains


Why thank you


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

I will only respond to the OP because I don't care about the other stuff being said....it's pointless.

I think it's great you are getting into Parelli! I'm 100% for it and I think you will love it. I'm a Level 3 student of the program and it's by far the best program I've ever done with my horses. They are so thankful I found it! lol.

Something you might want to keep in mind is that you may find that a completely different horse shows up when you start to play with him. But this is because you are opening cans of worms that were not opened before. These issues have always been there, parelli just gives you the tools to open those cans and solve the problems. I'm saying this through personal experience. 

I would advise against using different people's training methods at once. That will only confuse your horse, find something that works and stick with it, but make sure it's working FOR THE HORSE. What is convinient for the human is rarely what is best for the horse.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Maybe it would be helpful for you guys to start a thread that says who is a Parelli person and what level you are so that people can PM you for advice if they need it?


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

I think that's a good idea, Farmpony.


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## Kentucky (Aug 2, 2008)

"Maybe it would be helpful for you guys to start a thread that says who is a Parelli person and what level you are so that people can PM you for advice if they need it? "

that thread should be any creatifed trainer/ clinicain 's students


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Kentucky said:


> "Maybe it would be helpful for you guys to start a thread that says who is a Parelli person and what level you are so that people can PM you for advice if they need it? "
> 
> that thread should be any creatifed trainer/ clinicain 's students


good idea....


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## SallyBaby (Nov 30, 2008)

I beleive in the concept. It looks like fun to try, but it can be abused by people getting dominant horses with no manners!


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## mandaleacalico (Feb 14, 2009)

jeddah31 said:


> Pat Parelli recently did a show in Australia and made a huge idiot of himself.
> 
> He was incredibly rude to his volunteer and he rigged it. He made the audience clap and cheer when his volunteer had the two horses, to make the horses crazy because the arena was freaking them heaps out already. Then he'd make everyone sit still and not move from their seats when he had the horses so they'd appear calm. He said they were like that due to incorrect handling and their owner made them go crazy.. thinking that the audience wouldn't realise what he was doing.
> 
> He's just another person out their to make money, putting his name on everything. I don't think it's worth it


If you didn't like it, why did you watch?

I was sitting in front of the tarp, and when that bloke tried to make the horse go over, it nearly squashed him - and nobody was clapping. 

Pat only said not to clap, and to sit still because if people did, the horse would have gotten nervous, flipped out, and he would have to stat all over again.

Maybe you should try listening to what he's saying, and why he's saying it, before you go accusing.

And some of the horses behavior was due to mishandling - the owners had show no real discipline in the horses 'training'. And from the fact the woman rode the filly, got bucked off, got back on, and bucked off again, obviously raises some serious issues. Like the phrase 'when you fall off a horse..' It's a ridicules statement, and only idiots get straight back on.


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## mandaleacalico (Feb 14, 2009)

Level 3 student here.

Trust me when I say this: Buy Parelli branded stuff, straight from them. Yes, it may be expensive, but you pay for quality. I still use the same halter/lead(s)/stick and string that I bought nearly 7 years ago - and they're still in good condition.

Don't take bits and pieces from different people, because you will muddle yourself up, and worse, your horse. 

Remember, at first, your horse will try to assert dominance on you, and you will want to give up. Don't. Just keep persisting. And don't be scared to up your phases to make him do what you want. It will make him respect you more.

Spyder: You don't pay for the Levels strings. They're free 

I would ask the people at your barn to help you, and possibly borrow their DVD's, and maybe copy them, and ask if they have any old gear you could use/ buy off them.

Good to see that there are other teens out there getting into the program. (I'm only 15 )

It's a shame to see that there are so many people that are so closed minded, and that they have the hide to come on here, and say how they feel. We don't care. It annoys us. Get over it, and don't say anything.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

mandaleacalico said:


> Level 3 student here.
> Trust me when I say this: Buy Parelli branded stuff, straight from them. Yes, it may be expensive, but you pay for quality. I still use the same halter/lead(s)/stick and string that I bought nearly 7 years ago - and they're still in good condition.




I did not pay $4,000.00 for a saddle that "had Parelli" (not sure if it is Parelli's top half or bottom half) in it but a fraction of that ($1,100.00) My dressage saddle was purchased in 1986. Nothing wrong with it and going strong. I have a bridle made for my horse in 1994. I have another bridle that dates back to 1978. Take care of your stuff and it lasts. In both cases I did not pay an over inflated price because it hade a "name" on it. 




mandaleacalico said:


> Don't take bits and pieces from different people, because you will muddle yourself up, and worse, your horse.


 
This does NOT make sense at all. I have a Stubben briddle but can't stand their saddles. So my saddle is one that fits the horse and is comfortable for me and that is all that should be thought about,not if it "matches" or is the same as my other pieces of equipment. 




mandaleacalico said:


> Remember, at first, your horse will try to assert dominance on you, and you will want to give up. Don't. Just keep persisting. And don't be scared to up your phases to make him do what you want. It will make him respect you more.


 
Again not always true. I broke my boy in 10 minutes and never looked back. I built up my bond by simply applying good horsemanship techniques and common sense. He may be a stallion but common sense usually wins out. He is dominate but never dominating. 




mandaleacalico said:


> Spyder: You don't pay for the Levels strings. They're free


 
That is good because after paying so much money for all the stuff you need to get your level, nice to know a piece of household string is free. 




mandaleacalico said:


> It's a shame to see that there are so many people that are so closed minded, and that they have the hide to come on here, and say how they feel. We don't care. It annoys us. Get over it, and don't say anything.


I am the least closed minded of many as I WILL look at someone's methods to see if there is anything that may be usefull but I make my own decision based on 35 years of experience, not some DVDs.


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

Spyder said:


> [/color]
> 
> I did not pay $4,000.00 for a saddle that "had Parelli" (not sure if it is Parelli's top half or bottom half) in it but a fraction of that ($1,100.00) My dressage saddle was purchased in 1986. Nothing wrong with it and going strong. I have a bridle made for my horse in 1994. I have another bridle that dates back to 1978. Take care of your stuff and it lasts. In both cases I did not pay an over inflated price because it hade a "name" on it.
> 
> ...


 Just to let you know, I reported you for being so flippen rude to all of us who chose to have a strong relationship with our horses


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## StormyBlues (Dec 31, 2008)

im sorry that was rude but at the same time i did report her


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

Please remember the conscientious ettiquette policy when posting responses, especially under "known" hot topics. Please take the time to read through the wording you have typed in order to ensure the continuation of an educational discussion/debate rather then to add fuel to an already simmering fire. 

Using words like CLOSED MINDED is always going to stir trouble. Insinuating that the tack or the breed of horse is the best of the best and no other will compare will also always stir up harsh feelings and add to arguement. 

There is not always a right or a wrong way to train a horse and what's good for one rider or horse, is not good for every rider or horse. This is why it is so important to allow open discussions, so that one person can offer support or suggestions.

Negativity towards a method IS actually important, but needs to be added in a constructive way.

This thread has been placed under watch by the horse forum team.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

StormyBlues said:


> Just to let you know, I reported you for being so flippen rude to all of us who chose to have a strong relationship with our horses


I think you are mistaking rude for a difference of opinion. I think Spyder is pointing out those differences point by point. She is not saying it in a derogatory manor.


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## mandaleacalico (Feb 14, 2009)

Spyder, I'm talking halters and leads, which get replaced all to often.

I don't like their saddles, and I would never buy one - their just to big for me. 

When I say 'stuff', i mean methods. If you've chosen to follow one person, don't suddenly decide that their way of doing something is better because it's easier. Because if you go for your Level 1 certificate, you won't get it because they wont recognize the way you do a certain task.

That's great you broke your stallion in in 10 minutes. But I'm the one who has taken 3 horses up to advanced Level 2 in the program, and I'm at Level 3. I know what's going to happen.

I know people who have spent more on tie downs and bits and gadgets and special feeds to try and get their horse to do as they want, than I have on my gear, which I only bought once, and all my packs, which where bought by me and my parents so we would only have to get one set.

And if your not so close minded, why are you picking on the program? If you think it's to expensive, then don't do it. You can find quality stuff on eBay, so you can afford it, but it's better to buy new.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

mandaleacalico said:


> Spyder, I'm talking halters and leads, which get replaced all to often.
> 
> I don't like their saddles, and I would never buy one - their just to big for me.
> 
> ...


Can you believe my hoofpick is actually over 30 years old and I paid $1.19 for it but I digress.

I agree with staying with one training "type" or method......until you outgrow it. Most dressage riders will progress up with different trainers and each one will vary in their approach.

I have looked at dressage..western...driving and different training methods within each disciplin/training style. I have taken my FEI horse to western games and had a ball. I have my own stud trained to drive and was fascinated. My non hunter dressage/jumper horse has been shown hunter and was successful. My basis will always be dressage so that will always remain the core to all horses I train. I got to where I am on a shoestring and KNOW that you don't need to pay the fortune that some of these "names" (not just Parelli) charge and it was done by the use of common sense.

Parelli is just good at packaging common sense in a pretty package (DVDs etc.) and charging people a ton of money that in my opinion would be better served by going to a "real" trainer that can watch the progress and adjust the program to fit each student. DVDs of horse training (no matter who has issued them) simply CANNOT fit each and every person and to think thay can is very foolish. Too many people get the expectation that "hey...just look at the DVD and instantly you have a trained horse". It is dangerous and foolhardy for people just coming into horses to have these sorts of expectations.

So in a nutshell I feel that those that have the least understanding are fooling around with something they do not understand and can get themselves killed with.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

If you want to blame someone for the prices in the Parelli program, blame Mark Weiler, not Pat and Linda. Mark owns 51% of the company and he is a jerk who doesn't own horses. Horsemanship and helping people is not what he is after. Unfortunately there is nothing Pat and Linda can do about Mark, although I've heard they have tried. 

Lets just give this a rest.


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## Vidaloco (Sep 14, 2007)

Thanks for straightening that out Spirithorse. I was blaming Linda for the extreme marketing techniques. I didn't know they had a "strictly business" partner. 
I knew the message was getting muddied but didn't know the reason. I think Pats methods are great, especially the level one for someone who has never owned a horse before. It emphasizes safety and developing trust with the horse first and foremost. Its the method I used when I bought my very first horse and still do today. I morphed into a mishmash of input from other trainers but it was Pat Parelli who taught me how to gain the trust that is essential to horse ownership.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

No problem  A lot of people do blame Linda because she's the one who has put together the Levels packs and kinda handled that sort of thing, but it's really Mark's doing. I can't stand Mark, I wish he would quit or I wish Pat and Linda could find a way to get rid of him. I think eventually Mark will push the program too far in some areas and Pat's original message about horsemanship will be lost. But I'm not going to let Mark stunt my growth as a horsewoman. I won't allow it! lol.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I am not what you consider a "natural horseman". I'm more traditional but of course as everyone argues, alot of traditional methods have been harnessed and placed into the parelli levels and what not. I have watched pat, I like him... I've watched linda... I don't like her. I can't pin poin why... just don't.... not very fair huh??? can't explain it....


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Linda certainly is more.....ummm.....exhuberant?.....than Pat is. Like she has a lot more energy coming from her when she explains things. I know some people don't like that, I personally do, it keeps my attention.


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I actually liked Linda, Pat felt... very slimy to me.
You can 'blame' this Mark character all you want, but take a look at what the Parelli's have--Multi-million dollar barns with indoors and acres of pasture, expensive horses, their own tack, clothes, etc.
They may have a problem with the man, but they certainly don't have a problem with the money!

Halfcircleranch sells the same halters/leads that Parelli does, made out of the very, Exact same materials. I have owned both; Parelli stuff and the HCR stuff... exact same. And at HCR, it is a LOT cheaper.

No need to pay the inflated price. 

I've done Parelli, and as I grew as a horse trainer I moved on. It is nice for training trail horses and developing a bond with one horse, but if you're showing and training professionally, you're going to need something else. Parelli horse's are never consistent.  I remember watching Linda at a clinic and her warmblood just decided not to jump the barrels and almost dumped her. No reason; he'd jumped them before and jumped them afterward--but in a show scene that inconsistency just isn't worth your safety (or judging, if it's not jumping). Not to mention they fail pretty hard at any kind of true collection--their horses are soft and supple and GREAT for the trail, but don't assume because they look pretty, that they're collected.

Mainly, if you want to follow the program go ahead. It's silly and sometimes funny, and great if you're a trail rider. My only word of advice? Skip and forget EVERYTHING Linda says about equitation. They have butched classical equitation SO BADLY that it's a joke.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

mayfieldk said:


> You can 'blame' this Mark character all you want, but take a look at what the Parelli's have--Multi-million dollar barns with indoors and acres of pasture, expensive horses, their own tack, clothes, etc.
> 
> *Actually, Pat and Linda only own the land that their ranches are on...Mark owns the barns, the arenas, etc. Their horses aren't that expensive....Pat's super mare Magic was "worth nothing" because she had been to 7 trainers who said she was trash....Casper, his stallion, didn't cost much. Remmer, Linda's warmblood, cost her very little b/c the owner wanted to get rid of him because he was "trying to kill her." Allure cost Linda some b/c of his breeding and athletic capabilities, but to say their horses are expensive is not that accurate.*
> 
> ...


*Really? Have you even tried the techniques she teaches? I've ridden both ways....the traditional "proper" way and Linda's way and my horse WAY prefers the way Linda teaches. There's no brace, no stiffness, no sitting in positions that hurt the horse or stifle his gaits....the result is a much happier horse and a rider who is no longer hurting after riding and who is more fluid. *


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

'*Care to tell Craig Johnson, Karen Rohlf, Lauren Barwick, Louis Lucio, David and Karen O'Conner and Walter Zettl that? '
*
Sure, I don't think the 'professionals' train the horse the way he deserves, anymore. A medal doesn't mean you do it correctly.Look at top Olympic dressage riders... most of their horses are forced into false frames and move entirely on the forehand. But, look, they're flashy!
'*How do you know Remmer didn't feel Linda be a tad off balance or not with him? Remmer feels back to Linda beautifully. What do you think Linda should have done? Whack him a good one just b/c he's done it before? Yea, like that would make Rem want to jump for Linda again. In all the years I've gone to see their tour stops I've not once seen Rem refuse a jump. You obviously haven't seen Linda and Rem lately, they are both very consistent and as a team they are beautiful to watch.'

*Did I say she should have smacked him?

This is the problem with people who ride parelli--you believe that people who don't smack and kick and fight their way against their horses. And then you call people like me--and I've done Parelli up to level 3-- 'close minded'.

Funny how that works!

I watched him about a year ago. And here's the thing with training for competition--if my horse feels me 'just the slightest bit off balance'--I'd like him to jump a 3-4 ft jump. If I'm always slightly off balance, then I guess I shouldn't be jumping that!

Or maybe I should just go jump some picnic tables instead, they're safe. 

If the 'traditional proper way' is stiff and brace-y, then you were taught incorrectly. Ever watch the classical masters? Funny, their horse's look just fine with the way they sit--with classical equitation. Want to know why? Because it's hard to learn. It's an art. And if it was easy, EVERYONE would do it correctly.

I have tried Linda's methods, and I find them sloppy and 'instant gratifications'; easy fixes to make people feel like they are getting somewhere because they don't have to fight to learn anything 'hard'. Learning something isn't supposed to be easy; you don't let your feet flop out or your shoulders slump forward. She absorbs the motions of the trot through her upper back and shoulders, not through her hips like she should.

Not to mention she'll ride Allure at a sitting trot when he's less then a year under saddle... but classical dressage riders say that green horses don't have the back muscle to handle that. Hm.

I was told to give my experiences with the program, and I did--I didn't post so you could pick it apart to argue because Parelli is the absolute and only way to train a horse so he enjoys his work. I believe I was polite and truthful in my words--I didn't trash it and I didn't put it next to the Bible.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Sure, I don't think the 'professionals' train the horse the way he deserves, anymore. A medal doesn't mean you do it correctly.Look at top Olympic dressage riders... most of their horses are forced into false frames and move entirely on the forehand. But, look, they're flashy!

*LOL, ok, apparently their opinions mean nothing, even though they are all accomplished in the competition world. Even Walter Zettl.*

Did I say she should have smacked him?

This is the problem with people who ride parelli--you believe that people who don't smack and kick and fight their way against their horses. And then you call people like me--and I've done Parelli up to level 3-- 'close minded'.

*I never called you close minded. You assume I think that because you have this idea that all Parelli people think all non-Parelli people are close minded....funny how that works.*

I watched him about a year ago. And here's the thing with training for competition--if my horse feels me 'just the slightest bit off balance'--I'd like him to jump a 3-4 ft jump. If I'm always slightly off balance, then I guess I shouldn't be jumping that!

Or maybe I should just go jump some picnic tables instead, they're safe. 

*If the horse is confident, balanced, etc. then I see nothing wrong with jumping things other than your typical jump. It's a challenge for both horse and rider, and if that's what you like to do, then it's fun. Personally I will probably never jump a picnic table, but if that's what you like to do, then that's great. The fact that Rem feels back to Linda and doesn't jump when things don't feel right is a wonderful testement to their communication and relationship. Personally if things aren't right I wouldn't want my horse to jump....b/c if things aren't right the chance of me coming off is increased. *

I have tried Linda's methods, and I find them sloppy and 'instant gratifications'; easy fixes to make people feel like they are getting somewhere because they don't have to fight to learn anything 'hard'. Learning something isn't supposed to be easy; you don't let your feet flop out or your shoulders slump forward. She absorbs the motions of the trot through her upper back and shoulders, not through her hips like she should.

*If you let your feet flop and your shoulders slump you were NOT riding the way Linda teaches  Sorry, I've been studying her way for years now and I don't slump....you have an "english" way on top and a more "western" way on bottom....but you should never slouch. Linda says that all the time in her demos and in the DVDs on Fluidity. *

Not to mention she'll ride Allure at a sitting trot when he's less then a year under saddle... but classical dressage riders say that green horses don't have the back muscle to handle that. Hm.

*Apparently Allure is just fine with that, and he's always had a nice topline, even when she first got him. He's active enough where he stays in shape.*


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I have no need to fight because the argument is always the same. There are facts, and then they are ignored. Like I said, enjoy your parelli.

I will continue with classical dressage techniques.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Facts are really a matter of opinion in this case.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

> She absorbs the motions of the trot through her upper back and shoulders, not through her hips like she should.
> 
> *If you let your feet flop and your shoulders slump you were NOT riding the way Linda teaches  *




_Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm_


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Spyder don't steal my thunder! I'm too busy making stuff up about the Parelli's for you to go and PROVE my opinions.

<3


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

My friend actually filmed that video. She knows Linda personally and that was during a warm up and apparently Rem was a little fresh that day...Linda was working things out. She's also been experimenting with some things with the help from Walter Zettl so we really don't know what she was working on, aside from doing transitions to get Rem thinking.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

mayfieldk said:


> Spyder don't steal my thunder! I'm too busy making stuff up about the Parelli's for you to go and PROVE my opinions.
> 
> <3


Sorry but couldn't help it.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

OMG spyder I can deal with a lot of people .. but you are one of the few I cant

*breaths* Emotion fitness 

Anyways Parelli has changed chance from a bolting bucker who you couldnt get on without lungeing with out risking your life!

Im now jumping 2'6 and w.t.c and without lungeing or any harsh equitment. And we started with his games and understanding on ground. We are now moving onto lvl 2 and still dont feel the need to "move on" to something else. I agree everyone has there opinions. For those who think its only good for training trail horses what the heck have you been looking at! 

Do your research. dont just do it for 30 seconds and be like ok I did it and it didnt work!

I've deff had more success with my parelli trainer there with me I have to say.

Theres a lot more added to the program and they have re done the lvls and there are no more lvl packs becase people got to direct lined about the tasks and forgot about the horses. IF anyone has questions ect PM me

Im suprised this hasnt been locked.

Im done


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

'Do your research. dont just do it for 30 seconds and be like ok I did it and it didnt work!'

I'm pretty sure doing the program up to level 3 is 'doing your research'. And I never said it was horrible or bad. But in a /serious show context/, not 4-H or C-rated shows, you need your horse to be consistent, not 'be motivated by food' because he's left brained. And no one ever said you have to use harsh methods or harsh equipment to get your horse to be consistent.

I liked Parelli for a lot of things because it gave me a different look at training horses on the ground. But when it comes to riding, I think they need to revamp that a teeny bit. Or a lot, but whatever. You can't sell an entire package on ground work alone, so they started 'changing' the way they rode to give you a reason to stay with Parelli and not go anywhere else.

I remember when I got the Level 2 DVD pack, and I was watching the saddle shim's episode. They had a lady ride her horse in a round pen for like five minutes. This ladies equitation was horrible, she had her hands high enough to almost be level with the horse's ears, she was grabbing with her legs, leaning forwards, and constantly in his mouth. And Linda goes, 'Look how much the saddle hurts him!' or something.

So they make a saddle shim for him (That makes sense... if I had a shoe that was too small, would I put more socks on???), and set the lady off to ride again. The first minute, the horse is still the same. Linda realizes this, and starts telling the woman to relax her arms and legs, put her hands down, give the horse more rein, etc.. And then everyone is SO AMAZED at how the saddle shims work... when really, the problem was with how the woman rode.

This was when I knew that the program was designed to help, and at the same time, designed to keep you buying THEIR products and staying with THEIR methods. It's a business world, not one of sunshine and daises. It costs, what, 25 cents to make a DVD? Then why does a pack of 8 DVDs and two little flimsy books cost 300 dollars?

I enjoyed the program, but I enjoy training with compentent trainers better. I enjoy French Classical schooling and riding better.

I did my research, and sorry... it DOES happen--people leave Parelli.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

MFK- I wasnt talking about you.. more or less I was refuring to people who only have neg things to say about the prices the methods ect who has NEVER tried it. 

And I was saying how I have no reason to leave yet. Of course some people do.

I've tried mixing different training methods with parelli and it confused me and my horse staying with there progam is much easier then going back a forth. 

To each there own.. im not gonna go to much into this.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

HorsesAreForever said:


> MFK- I wasnt talking about you.. more or less I was refuring to people who only have neg things to say about the prices the methods ect who has NEVER tried it.


 
Having friends try it and see the price they pay for what I can get for a 1/3 of the price IS EXPERIENCE. In the end they shucked it and went with a more sensible program.

I have all sorts of positive things to say about things I feel positive about. Pointing out errors or making observations about things I see in real life is what life is about ( it is also called EXPERIENCE)....unfortunately life is NOT a bed of roses butterfies and cuddly dolls for everything out there.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Well your friends had you on there back -.-! They could very well have been doing it wrong, because I was when I started and quit becase I wasnt getting results and hated parelli. I tried many diff methods NH and classic and it just made her worse and she hated me and very pushy to everyone with those others. I relized I had better horse when I was doing parelli so I started over and got feed back as I went along! HMM interesting its changed my horse completely to a respectful but playful horse. 

You can get alot of the stuff from HCR for less but I have my stick from HCR and I use my BO's carrot stick I also try and get her carrot stick because its much better to control and you have much more feel.

some people DO go WAY to far with parelli and pay 100 per month for a gold membership which is ridiculous IMO 

I pay for what i need.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Wow, there are SOOO many things that have just been said that are 1) not true and 2) ill-informed. Obviously some people don't pay attention to the whole DVD and listen to every word spoken....but apparently it's not worth saying so I'm keepin my mouth shut on this one


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Was any of it from me **** Its like impossible to put things in the right words.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

HorsesAreForever said:


> Well your friends had you on there back -.-!


Nope. I said nothing. I was not there when they bought any of theses things.


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## Spirithorse (Jun 21, 2007)

Nope, it's nothing you said HorsesAreForever  It's other people.


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## HorsesAreForever (Nov 9, 2007)

Okay  *feels better about not giving miss informed info*


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

OK guys, we're not going anywhere with this thread except to point fingers so it's time to move on to another subject.


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