# Cart sizing



## GypsyGirls15

I haven't actually used our cart yet (it's being delivered today!) but I have been looking for quite awhile. I will try to get some pictures of the one we selected, but we found a used Amish pony cart that fits 12-14 hh ponies (my girl is 13 hands and her foals are taping 13.2 and 14.2) so I wanted something that can hopefully work with that range.

What I love about it is that you sit up fairly high compared to most easy entry carts (so I figure for a short person like me, it might be a little less easy entry haha!) but at least when I'm up there, I'll be able to see where were going at all times easily.

I wanted one that had the potential for us to show in as well. I'd think if your husband was able to modify one for training that you could make it work, but it might be worth it to wait and keep looking (depending on your budget as well).


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## greentree

It would be no problem as long as the shafts, adjusted to the horse's point of shoulder, do NOT point down. (slope towards front of horse) they can be level, or slightly up. Watch the length of the shaft, to avoid the horse getting the poked or hung up on it.

Try to avoid pneumatic tires on wire wheels....get a sturdier, larger wooden or metal wheel for use outside of the arena.


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## GypsyGirls15

Here it is! Needs some paint, but I absolutely love it. Can't wait to start working with it. But you can see how the seat is higher up than in most carts, yet the shafts are still sized appropriately for my ponies.


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## BiologyBrain

I may even talk my hubby into building me something since he's handy with car parts & metal. 

It doesn't look like the money tree I was expecting is going to bloom after all. :-( so cart and harness are a L O N G way off - more so than I thought. All I have is a much too large harness, a bareback pad, bridle with 7' roper reins, and time. I guess we'll just be doing a lot of ground driving and long-lining. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## greentree

Gypsy, that's a LOVELY cart!! 

Biology, an smart man will never build something that could injure his wife, haha. We have seen SO many accidents caused by design flaws inCOMMERCIALLY built carts!!!

I was riding with a VERY experienced driver on a casual drive(his wife was afraid of the young horse he was driving) at the Kentucky Horse Park several years ago. We were trotting along when, CLUNK, my seat dropped about 3" !! We had to stop, unhitch, have his wife bring the truck, and get the rig back to the barn. Thankfully, it did not make aloud enough noise to spook the horse, and the entire seat did not fall off. 

I was at a CDE and we heard the "loose horse on course!!!" cries being heard, and from the barn, we could see a white pony with a TWO wheel cart, but nobody could figure out who had THAT...when the pony was caught, it turned out to be a FOUR wheeled cart that had broken IN HALF, leaving the whip face planted, and the pony with the two front wheels. The ambulance tookher to the hospital. 

Save your pennies, buy a safe cart, and save your life.


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## greentree

PS...where in WKY do you live? If you want to come ride or drive, I live in Just north of BG!!


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## SueC

BiologyBrain said:


> I may even talk my hubby into building me something since he's handy with car parts & metal.
> 
> It doesn't look like the money tree I was expecting is going to bloom after all. :-( so cart and harness are a L O N G way off - more so than I thought. All I have is a much too large harness, a bareback pad, bridle with 7' roper reins, and time. I guess we'll just be doing a lot of ground driving and long-lining.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


My dad built himself a jogcart for training his harness racers at home. It's welded out of metal pipe and has few of the comforts I would like when driving, but you could totally build comfortable options into a home-bake. Here's dad with his little rescue mare Dezba and the cart, doing a "Roman Chariots" session on his sand track:





































Dad is nearly 77 and still trains three horses and drives them in races himself. He adopted Dezba two years ago - she was stressed and unhappy and not performing at her previous stable and he took her on as a project because he'd wanted to buy her when she was a yearling, but missed out! They've had many placings and a win so far but best of all, they are both enjoying themselves and feeling well. :smile: 

Building a cart out of wood was something my father didn't want to do. His first cart was an old wooden jogcart and one day one of the shafts splintered jaggedly. He was having nightmares of a splintered shaft going through a horse in a fall and that's why he decided to weld one out of tubular metal, and really secure the ends so that they couldn't "core" a horse in an accident... Also he made his cart wider than standard, to prevent tipping over when cornering fast on uneven ground. He'd had a few spills, and he's not had any in this one.

Something else you could do if on budget is see if a used pony jogcart from the Pony Trots comes up. Do you have Pony Trots in the US? Here in WA, there are Pony Trots for children and their ponies between races at race meetings. It's cute to see them go around the race track with their multicoloured tiny charges.


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## BiologyBrain

SueC said:


> My dad built himself a jogcart for training his harness racers at home. It's welded out of metal pipe and has few of the comforts I would like when driving, but you could totally build comfortable options into a home-bake.
> 
> Building a cart out of wood was something my father didn't want to do. His first cart was an old wooden jogcart and one day one of the shafts splintered jaggedly. He was having nightmares of a splintered shaft going through a horse in a fall and that's why he decided to weld one out of tubular metal, and really secure the ends so that they couldn't "core" a horse in an accident... Also he made his cart wider than standard, to prevent tipping over when cornering fast on uneven ground. He'd had a few spills, and he's not had any in this one.
> 
> Something else you could do if on budget is see if a used pony jogcart from the Pony Trots comes up. Do you have Pony Trots in the US? Here in WA, there are Pony Trots for children and their ponies between races at race meetings. It's cute to see them go around the race track with their multicoloured tiny charges.


This is pretty much what I was going to get hubby to do. He's an auto mechanic and his dad is too. They've worked on basically anything with wheels and/or an engine. His dad has been in a profession to do welds that mean life or death for more than one person. I don't know if we have Pony Trots here in the U.S. or anywhere near me. I find some carts on Craigslist though for fairly cheap that maybe I could have my hubby work on to be the right size for Starlie. 

Thanks for the pictures and ideas!


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## michaelvanessa

*sue c*

hiya sue c the sulky is great for exercise and very robust in deed.
i have had mine for nearly 20 odd years ok no suspention lol just bounce up and down lol.
as i use it for exercise for tricky only so now we are just going to do shought trots and walks as he is geting on now.
that cart has been every were with me on holiday as if it breaks its easaly welded up.
its been a great all rounder the seat is a plastic chair with the legs cut off.
i have aluminum motorbike wheels i took the skinny spoke wheels off and this cart is a tough little cookie and has broken many to harness.
and is great on the rough farm tracks here although your body comes up and down with a thud on the seat tith the pot holes in trot.
i use to canter tricky in it but his geting on and cuting down his work now in a big way.
sue c thanks for shareing your pictures of your dad and his horse.
thankyou michael tricky and quincy.


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## michaelvanessa

*greentree*

to greentree i wish i was in ky bg id love to go out for a drive hopefully if the lotto comes home lol we will fly over me and quincy and take up the offer.
thats a future bucket list i hope you hold me to that.
ill have to keep an eye out for taffyclayton as she wants quincy.


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## SueC

Hey MV, I am dying to see photos now!  No suspension, hah, you guys have something in common in kind of ignoring the potential comforts of a jogcart, which doesn't need to be featherlight... I have had several drives in Dad's metal cart, and personally find it disconcerting because there is no footrest - just a rope to put your feet on! Have a close look... :rofl: And my Dad goes, "Where is the problem? I don't see any problem!" - and I guess since he's never fallen from it in twenty years, he has a point. ;-) You seem to be kindred spirits!

I did find the conventional jogcart he had before more comfortable for driving, and drove in it a lot, including with my Arabian mare. I'll see if I can dig up some old photos. The race sulkies are fine too, nice and secure. I guess if you're going to drive recreationally like BB, you might go for extra comforts though. Maybe her DH can make her a built-in teapot or something! 

I'm intrigued - you live in London and drive horses? Where do you do that? Do you take them all around England to get away from the city? And are you mostly a pleasure driver or have you also been in racing? Sorry to ask "twenty questions" but one of the main reasons I'm on HF is because people's stories are so interesting to me.


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## SueC

My DH just scanned and digitised two prints from an old family album for me, so I can share them.

This is my father and me in the mid-1980s training Classic Juliet to go in the cart when she was somewhere between one and two years old, which is the usual age we were getting young horses used to a cart. However, pretty early in the piece my father decided not to race two-year-olds at all. Also no full racing programme until the horse is mature. All our horses retired paddock sound and we have no issues with arthritis with any of the retirees, of which we have a number in their 20s and one in his 30s.










At the critical stages we always had two people with a horse. Here I elected to drive and dad to lead. This was her first lap around the sand track with a driver. She'd been long reined extensively in preparation and had been familiarised with the cart. Next stage after this would be my father driving and me babysitting at the head, without a lead rope, just for the horse's confidence. The person at the head got pretty fit! 










Anyway, that cart was the old wooden jog cart.

Classic Juliet became my father's best race mare. She had 7 wins, 6 second and 4 third placings. We didn't even race her until she was five as she was so small and took a while maturing. She actually won at her debut and I remember that well, she was sitting in the running line and then as she was eased out at 500m just went "zoooooom" around the field with her ears flat back and my dad was smiling like a Cheshire cat in the sulky.

After three years of racing we had to retire the mare as she broke off a stabilising structure in a front carpal joint in an accident. It didn't make her unsound but it did increase the risk that she might overextend the joint at speed and break a leg as a result, and we didn't want that. She reached her late twenties and died a few years ago. I still have her now 31-year-old full brother Romeo here in Redmond.

This was supposed to be about the jogcart! :rofl: I just can't look at these old photos without all these memories spilling out of me. Maybe some of you also enjoy reading stories like this though.


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## michaelvanessa

*troting cart sulky*

to sue c i have found a few that will make you laugh with what you can do with a troting sulky.


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## michaelvanessa

*to sue c*

dear sue c every picture tells a story and thay are great ones to tell ill have to read your string i have pictures of tricky and tammy in tandem in a sulkey in an indoor school geting use to working in tandem.
tricky on holiday ill find more pictures for you lol
i have a funny video as we were driveing down the farm track he held his tail up and passed wind then guess who did the same its so funny cought on video.
it made a hell of a noise on a plastic seat.


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## michaelvanessa

*foot loops*

to sue c mine has foot loops so that your foot rests with the heal of the foot thay are great i would pace with trick and also canter.
beleave it or not in epping forest on the tracks full out gallop in tandem in that sulky.
this sulky can tell some storys lol.
ok sue sit down and dont laugh ok.
it starts like this we had our gearboxes stolen from our horse box and lorry.
and as payment for them doing that we did the same to there troting carts.
well this perticular one had a crazy gerney.
:rofl:dont start that yeat ok so i got my younger brother i said you have to help me.
so we borded the tube train from severnsisters to finsbury park.
cought the train to alexandrapalace were the sulkys and our yard was we had a sand bagging plant there.
so we went to there yard walked in got this sulky threw it over the fence carred it across the railway lines and on to the platform.
the train pulls up shes a 313 electric multpul unit.
the doors open up the shafts go in the gang way and were off to finsbury park.
we get the sulky out of the train and and go down the stairs then down a spiral stair case about 150 foof down to the tube lines back on a tube train shafts in the gang way and out up the stairs and on to the escalator moveing staircase through the ticket barrier and home.
a pair of motobike wheels and a coat of paint.
well just deserts what goes around comes around.


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## SueC

MV, those are great photos, thank you for posting them!   

Your cart looks plenty comfortable compared to Dad's - a good backrest and you even have proper footholds for security. It looks very neat and tidy too. Love the traditional harness - where did that come from?

And the tandem driving: :clap:


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## SueC

michaelvanessa said:


> to sue c mine has foot loops so that your foot rests with the heal of the foot thay are great i would pace with trick and also canter.
> beleave it or not in epping forest on the tracks full out gallop in tandem in that sulky.
> this sulky can tell some storys lol.
> ok sue sit down and dont laugh ok.
> it starts like this we had our gearboxes stolen from our horse box and lorry.
> and as payment for them doing that we did the same to there troting carts.
> well this perticular one had a crazy gerney.
> :rofl:dont start that yeat ok so i got my younger brother i said you have to help me.
> so we borded the tube train from severnsisters to finsbury park.
> cought the train to alexandrapalace were the sulkys and our yard was we had a sand bagging plant there.
> so we went to there yard walked in got this sulky threw it over the fence carred it across the railway lines and on to the platform.
> the train pulls up shes a 313 electric multpul unit.
> the doors open up the shafts go in the gang way and were off to finsbury park.
> we get the sulky out of the train and and go down the stairs then down a spiral stair case about 150 foof down to the tube lines back on a tube train shafts in the gang way and out up the stairs and on to the escalator moveing staircase through the ticket barrier and home.
> a pair of motobike wheels and a coat of paint.
> well just deserts what goes around comes around.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This should have been on The Goodies!


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## michaelvanessa

*to sue c ill ancer your questions.*

to sue c ill answer your questions.
i got in to horse as i met my frends daughter she had a cob calle john and rode him by the tottenham highroad in south tottenham well i fell in love with this girl,so i wanted a horse i went to the small yard in tottenham and met her dad and eventurley started to work for him and got a relationship with his daughter.
her name was christine.
so i ended up geting a rescue pony called snowy i brought a saddle befor i got my first pony lol i spent more time in my head in the road than in the saddle.
her name was snowy she was a flea biten grey i read a lot i brought a governess cart and broke her in to harness in the streets of london.
i brought a governess cart for £500 in the mid 1980s so i drove her in all the traffic she was bomb proof.
i lost her in 1991 estermated 36 years old
i drove her charlie sec c welsh pony and also use to ride him
as our partnershp fell apart she got in to trouble and got a new boyfrend and moved to ireland so i looked after her pony with her dad in the end.
tricky is a rescue pony welsh sec a as well he was broke in well he broke me in to lol very scary moments in saddle i thought i was paralised as i hit a granit curbstone with my back and lost movement in my legs the other time bolted in to a 3 lane oneway system broad lane tottenham i had to get all his reserves to get us out of trouble.
so the troting sulky was his first cart he was put to and i led him i did tis all on my own and eventualy took him to work in leyton depot were we had a large maintainance depot in the hart of london i was doing a railsaw and drill course.
and we enterd him in for london harness horse parade regents park london.
he was 4 and boy can this pony move.


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## SueC

Thank you for your story, that's amazing! 

And it reminds me of the saying: "Want true love? Get a dog."

Should we make that: "Want true love, get a pony and cart?" ;-)

Amazing to be doing all this stuff in London. I guess one of the advantages you have is that in England there is actually a lot more consideration for horses on the road than we have here unfortunately. (I was in England twice, once as a child to put our two horses in quarantine before coming to Australia from Europe, and once as a young adult to do a working holiday.)

Anyway, I remember the riders in country lanes and the riders in Hyde Park! All recreational riders. That was nice to see.

It's great that you've had your horses for so long!

I'll have to show your tandem driving pics to dad and suggest it to him for economising on time in his harness training! ...if he put the girl in front, the boy at the back, I suppose they'd really get some speed up! ;-) Incentives.


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## michaelvanessa

*troting sulky skimed storys*

so he was in the governess cart i had a breast collar harness that was for a donkey sorry tricky so i got a dressing down from the judge but hoped to save up and do better.
so we moved to the country side to were christine use to work john ther cob was on the rideing school there so i kept an eye on him to.
well the worl opend up we use to go down the roads and tracks the cart would bounce in and out of the bumps id go up and my backside cheeks would come down with a thud all through the mud and puddles.
the harness was a disaster i call it my reading set i went to reading carrage sales.
i was late i missed the lots i wanted to bid for so there was this harness for sale i bit and wone it i payed £200.
when i got it well all i thought was lite up a hamlet cigar and have the piano playing.
it was the biggest pile of rubbish i have ever brought.
well a flyer came through the post a harness maker called caroline and martin said thay would and would like to undertake harness repairs and make new harness well i gave it a shot.
i done it in bits 90% of the buckles were saved the crupper the outside of the driveing pad saddle the nose band blinkers and head piece thats all thats left of the oridgnal harness the rest is all brand new so in sence i had a new harness it cost £800 then.
i found a company called burro collars its an adjustable collar that cost £250 with the hames imported from canada.
so that was in the next years show i brought a lot off of them.
the sulky broke in tammy for vanessa as i was coughting vanessa and smuge 
and a few other horses of carols.
it was at bricket wood watford were tammy was at lye lane livery yard its been all round the new forest and also norfolk to so its well travled.
even on my brothers roof rack on his car to vanessa lol
and back to bricket wood for clair and loran and sophy as thay had perchased tammy as vanessa had passed on another long story i taught then to drive and left them the sulky.
clair gifted tammy back to me i am highley honord and im still lost for words as thay were moveing to devon.
i took tammy to the crematorium were vanessas ashes are and said your babys homewe all cryed as clair was the nurse on the intensive care unit were vanessa died.
im still a train wreck after that and all ways will be.
the sulky has been with me 29 odd years now and its a peace of a long history.
i broke quincy in for carol he panicked as it pinched him bucked i lent back the seat broke and the next hind foot split my knuckles lol.
well a horse on the other side of the headge spooked him from the other barn.
the funnest crash was the main drive was being relayed and the other entrance was on the opersit side of the road.
thay would have a motobike meeting at the coach and horses pub well this old bike was backfireing tricky shot in the gate we hit a rock he saw the electric fence the cart wipped i smashed my head on a five bar farm gate got knocked out the cart fell on its side i was dragged along fell out on the electric fence got electricuted com to the motocycleist shakeing me are you all right mate i pushed him off the sulky had some how righted it self and he was ruted in to a paddock.
i was cut from head to toe i could not undo the harness and i got taken into the farm house to clean my wounds up.
and then to hospital.


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## BiologyBrain

Sue & MV,

Having your feet up in the air like that just seems so vulnerable... How do you stand it? 

The last cart I had, my DH put a minivan bench seat on for me. The little wooden bench seats with the low back rest are even uncomfortable for the kind of trails I go on when I go off trail. 

Of course, today I got my official notice of my denied money tree. The decision was even worse than I thought. :-( I tried working with Starlie to make myself feel better. I spent almost 2 hours grooming her, massaging her, and just being with her. Then I had another set back with Starlie, so driving may not even be in my future. I'm demoralized. :-(


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## michaelvanessa

*i wish i could tell all the storys*

i wish i was in a room to tell all the storys and share them all with you.
since i have owned horses i have not had so much fun.
DRIVERS PLEASE WARE A JOCKY SKULL CAP AS I GOT A WARNING WHEN I HIT THE FARM GATE.
WELL YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE STATE OF THE GATE LOL
its got a great big head dent in it.
i have so much to share and horses and dear frends that have passed to have taught me a lot.
im lucky and blessed with the times that i have had and the times i will have with quincy and tricky.


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## michaelvanessa

*biolagy brain*

dont give up keep the dream alive ok you will.
well if you look at it from this side of the shafts its natral you are not vonrable at all first thing to rember i dont use a wip i ask and going fast around corners i lean in so the cart skids on the soft dirt thats at a gallop or a canter.
ONLY DO THIS IF YOU 100% TRUST YOUR HORSE AND YOUR HORSE TRUSTS YOU.
you are a team and it takes a long time to build the team its not overnight it takes years of finding things out about your horse and your horse finds out about you.


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## michaelvanessa

*to greentree*

to greentree i fell about laughingon your string well she made her money in 2 2 wheel carts lol.
well theres an old saying unighted we drive devided we fall lol.


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## michaelvanessa

*to sue c*

to sue c i have some pictures here that your father can see my troting sulky.
and tricky.
and also my reading set of harness that was total scrap the traces are from the donkey set what a mixture lol.
the trace hooks and the breeching ds foot mans loops are home made.


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## michaelvanessa

*sulky foot loops*

hiya sue c heres my sulky and the foot loops.
the seat i re attached with bailing twine lol.


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## michaelvanessa

*to sue c*

heres my reading set of harness.
and also the home made trace hooks.


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## Clayton Taffy

[ATTACH said:


> 691361[/ATTACH]
> 
> View attachment 691369


We refer to these carts as Gynecology carts. :rofl::rofl:


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## SueC

BiologyBrain said:


> Sue & MV,
> 
> Having your feet up in the air like that just seems so vulnerable... How do you stand it?


Well, I do really prefer riding!  But to answer your question, pretty soon you stop worrying about vulnerability from having your feet in the air and you just concentrate on making sure the horse stays on track and doesn't decide to do any quick unexpected turns towards the stables etc, or you watch for kangaroos and emus in the bush around the track to be able to notice them and steady your horse so there aren't any rapid unplanned movements, that sort of thing.

And when you're driving on a public track doing speed work, you forget all about the vulnerability of your position because, at least when you're starting, you can get petrified just by the speeds these horses reach. A good horse these days, on Australian tracks, will do 800m in 55 seconds. And all the while the fine gravel is flying skyward and blasting past your face and that tends to really occupy your brain over and above your position.

I've gone faster on horseback over 800m, since a harness trot or pace is not as fast as a fast gallop, but it doesn't feel so disconcerting to me on a horse as behind it. Speed is more scary when you are close to the ground. Try riding a recumbent bicycle fast compared to a standard one!  Also on horseback you get the feeling (perhaps an illusion, if you talk to people who prefer driving) of having more influence over your horse, since your head is closer to its head...


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## SueC

Taffy Clayton said:


> We refer to these carts as Gynecology carts. :rofl::rofl:


:rofl:

That's also why I didn't ever want to play cello, despite loving the sound! And anyway, fiddles are cuddlier! ;-)


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## SueC

MV, thank you for the lovely detailed follow-up photos and the extra stories!  It's great to be able to have such in-depth treatment of a topic. I'm sure BB's DH will find the cart details very helpful when BB charms him into a cart-building project! ;-)


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## michaelvanessa

*Ginacolagist carts.*

Dear taffy Clayton and Sue c.
I have good news :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
It was lucky I cought her I have a little baby girl lol.
You guys have a great sence of humer and I am in bits with laughter.
Taffy and Sue c I'm going to create a picture that will split your sides wide open with laughter.mg:.
Will be the response .
I'll be riprawing with laughter.
My dear frends :cheers:to the new arrivle lol.
I'll explane on pm about the baby girl after the joke picture.
Tried to make some one happy but got burned and ripped to peaces I hope I have a good hart for what I did.
I'm a good man and I did try to ease some ones pain.
That's why I'm single again and back home.:sad:


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## michaelvanessa

*Boy as a leader girl as a wheeler.*

To sue c tammy belonged to Vanessa and was gifted back to me.
I am still over whelmed by Clair sophy and loran for gifting her back as it was 3 years after Vanessa sold her and Vanessa passed on.
I'm so proud of this little girl tammy.
I paired her up with tricky and they hit it off like an old married couple lol.
My frend Chris helped me as well and we both got them going I have a film of us driving in the indoor school.
I don't know how to put it on here.
The year before Chris lost his pony to colic I use to exercise him for him.
The year after the film I lost chris my best mate to a hart attack in the London hart hospital.
I forgot trickys bridle so I used race blinkers.
These blinkers I used to break him in with and I still have them boxed away.
But mine was the oppersit way round as we tried her and she was looking for him lol.
She loved tricky.
Tricky was there when the day came he had to know we're she was going.
I'm so sad for him both of us boys lost both girls from the same family.


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## michaelvanessa

*trickys collar.*

the hame tugs i forgot to mention have the tandem spoons incorperated in them all ready so you can connect the leader.
i have a full set with the extra rein terrets in patent leather i have used this set 8 times.
i have a pair set i have used this twice in patent leather and both are in brass with full collars.


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## michaelvanessa

*To biology brain*

To biology brain with a little one like this your crown jewels are out so strikeing distance:rofl::rofl:


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