# Asperger's and Riding



## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

Ok guys... I need help here. I'm sorry it's longish but I wanted to give as much info as possible.

I posted a few days ago that I teach riding and I had a high anxiety student and asked for some help. Now, my boss has apparently decided to challenge me as much as possible.

There is a 22 year old "volunteer" at our barn with Asperger's Syndrome. She also has a large tendency to lie and has extreme anxiety, especially with confrontation. Her riding instructor of 8 years has officially become sick of her and refuses to teach her anymore. She is a very clingy girl and although she went to college for horses, she does not really know very much. Anything out of her comfort zone is hell.

My boss has asked me to take her on. I have taught her before. She rides with her outside hand up and her inside hand crossed over the withers claiming all horses are fighting her. When I make her drop her reins, it gets better, but things go back to the way they were the next lesson. The lessons are the same each time. 

She apparently used to jump and my boss would like me to help her get back to that. My thought is to stick her on a lungeline, take away her reins and see her jump small on a good horse.

Any other ideas of how to deal with this girl??? She gets very defensive and upset and then she will text me 30 times a night about everything and anything. Boundaries have been set up, but she forgets them within a few weeks.

How do I help this girl to improve while keeping my cool and not being mean, which was her last instructors approach and it was horrible to listen to her lessons. Thanks in advance.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Put your "boundaries" in writing, number them, and be prepared to explain what they mean over and over. Put the definitions in writing, right on the same page as you write your rules.

Don't take the student's anger, anxiety or frustration personally. She may just be used to expressing this way and it may be a step in how she processes. You may be able to suggest other ways to express those emotions, but don't expect to see immediate change. But, I bet the girl will think about it and over time you'll see an improvement.

Some, though not all, people with Asperger's Syndrome and other disorders on the Autism spectrum have sensory integrative disorders. Without writing a book on those, I may suggest: trying to talk more quietly or keep it normal, raising or lowering your voice (see what gets her attention), give extra time for her to organize a response - whether it is physical movement or verbal, suggest homework exercises that will both strengthen and improve balance. Have her keep a chart of which ones and on what days she does them. Name your emotion -- if she does something that causes 'near death' to herself, the horse or someone else and you scream (of course) explain you were scared. If you are angry that she does a), b) or c) state first that you are angry. If you are happy, use the word. If she lies call her on it, but know that sometimes (though surely not always) people with this disorder have a bit of trouble differentiating "real" memories from "imagined" memories. Simply state that "x" is not true, or that you did not experience the same thing, or that while it could happen - it didn't. And move on.

I hope you two adapt to each other and you end up having a cool time teaching her.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

I taught a kid who was somewhere on the Autism spectrum, I don't know if he was actually labeled "asperger's" but I know he was highly functioning and was not in a special classroom but never made eye contact, had a flat voice, etc. 

I'm trying to remember what it was like, as it was a few years ago... but the "comfort zone" thing was definitely a big issue. Changing from one arena to another was BIG DEAL and he did not cope well with it at all. I found that giving him lots of advanced warning (in two weeks we're going to ride in this arena. Next week we're going to ride in this arena, etc) helped him out a little. He never wanted to change anything so warnings made it less of a big deal. I also tried to stick to a very specific routine just to help him out. The hard part was knowing when to make him suck it up and do it my way, or to be sympathetic and go with the way he wanted to do things. He seemed to like it when I spoke to him in a very matter of fact tone. And things were very black and white to him so I had to speak to him very literally. Although, I don't know if that was the aspergers or just his personality. I don't know if that helps out at all but that's all I can remember. He only rode with me for 5 or 6 months so I don't remember everything. But I do remember I had to start ever lesson reminding myself that it could either be frustrating or a situation where I was going to learn how to teach a different method. In the end I ended up liking him quite a bit. He was a funny kid and was a little sad (although a little relieved) when he quit for the winter. Good luck!


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

Boots gives brilliant advice. Be literal - always. She will find it hard or impossible or to understand implications or analogies. Be factual, be patient.

Two books for you to read:

The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time by Mark Haddon

The Town that Drowned by Riel Nason

Both fictional novels that contain characters with Autism. In the first one the protagonist has Aspergers.

Everyone with Aspergers is different, but these books will both give you an insight into the autistic world. If you only have time for one book, go for the Mark Haddon one. It is FABULOUS and in my humble view the world would be a bit of a better place if everyone read it. My brother has Aspergers; grew up with it way before autism was on most doctors radars so was undiagnosed. It humbled me when I read it.


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## upnover (Jan 17, 2008)

Ok, I just re-read my post and I sound like a terrible person! "Relieved" probably isn't the right word. It wasn't like he was a nuisance or that I didn't like him, in fact I liked him quite a bit. But he was a challenge and I had to figure out how to best work with him so that he could learn in a way that was comfortable for him. He always kept me on my toes.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Piper I too taught a gal who continually fiddled with the reins altho I hadn't been told of her learning disability. I asked her to remove her bridle and put on the knotted halter and to mount bareback. She was fearful at first until I asked her if she was up to a challenge. All she had was one line, her lead shank. Her horse, who'd been in a constant state of confusion suddenly became a gem. She rode him with her left hand and the fiddly hand was now quiet. Her requests were now clear and she had a wonderful lesson.


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

^^ I don't think there's anything wrong with being a "little relieved", upnover. there is a young girl that rides with our team that has Asperger's and while she's a kind and bright young girl... she can also be exhausting and, even on the occasion, frustrating.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

I have Asperger's, I'm a rider and I used to be a horror to some of my instructors. boots already gave a wonderful and precise advice on how people with Asperger's sometimes see the world (especially about lying being actually distorted memories!), but if I can help with any information and experience, please, do ask. 

One thing to remember - although the girl might seem different in the way she communicates, it is most likely that inside she is just like anyone else. The thing that differs is the bridge from her inner world to the one we all share, and it is sometimes very frustrating not to understand and not to be understood in areas that seem so simple and obvious. In writing, I can express myself fully, as it is with many aspies, but, when it comes to direct talking and expressing emotions, there are some doors shut. So be patient and in no moment treat her "special" - that would just deepen her frustration and difficulties to percieve everything in the true light of the matter.


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## Piper182 (Jun 18, 2009)

Thank you all so much, I truly appreciate the help. Boots, you make some amazing points and Saranda I will definitely take you up on your offer if you don't mind. Thank you all. 

p.s. upnover, even though i love teaching, there are many kids that I'm not exactly sad when they take a break. I never want them to quit, but sometimes it is nice to get a break.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I used to teach a girl with Aspergers. The biggest thing I noticed with her is she had a very hard time communicating what was going through her mind and that would lead to outbursts. 

She became very attached to me and thrived off a set routine. What I ended up doing with her was sit down and make a "list". It would almost be a check list for her. It was broken down to the very basics and we would set weekly goals. An idea of the checklist

-Find coach and say hello
-Check the board for assigned horse
-Get brushes and tack set up where horse will be cross tied
-Get horse from stall/padock and crosstie
-Brush horse starting with curry comb, then hard brush, soft brush and pick out hooves
-Put brushes back in kit
-Start tacking up boots on horse, saddle pad, saddle
-Check with coach to find out when to bridle

The list would go like this. She loved having her check list. We had another one for when she was on and starting to ride. It would start with warming herself and her horse up. Arm circles, toe touching, walk halt transitions etc

It seems really silly but she really thrived off having this routine and her goals. The goals would be so simple and basic. One week it was "go entire week without being told to check diagonal" or "work on two point" just little things.

Now my student was only 15. So you might need something a little more advanced then this but I have done similar things with other students that had LD's. 

Good luck and if you ever need advice or have a question feel free to pm me. I tend to get handed all the students with LDs for some reason lol and I actually really enjoy it. Its great having these small goals and seeing how excited they get when they reach their goal. One kid is so excited that shes started learning stride control. Another one of my kids just about peed herself from being so happy and excited she mastered a half halt. I just love it


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm an Aspie.

I have been an absolute nightmare for coaches, to the point of breaking down in tears over really nothing much... yelling, talking back, flat out refusing to do whatever... blaming the coach/group/horse/tack when really the problem was me... the list goes on and on. When things were going my way I was the coach's favourite... but when things were not going my way, well, let's just say I was not nice to be around!

I still struggle with my temper, especially the talking back and bursting into tears over "nothing". But I listen better, now. If you yell at me, I shut down instantly [bar the one instructor who somehow had a way of yelling that didn't irritate me], but if you take the time to patiently explain or even show me what it is you want me to do, I'll happily set to doing it.

I learn best through my eyes. The best thing ever for me to do, and I should do it more, is take video of myself and compare it to a rider I want to ride like. What are THEY doing, that I'm not? What can I change? What do I need to work on? My role models are not all professionals, and in fact my current coach is only a couple of years older than me, a VERY nervous rider, and is far from perfect herself... but she gets me, and she gets my horse. She knows a ton more about dressage than I do, which is awesome because that's what I need to work on more than anything else.

I am incredibly imaginative so I find analogies to be a brilliant way of "showing" me how to do something, without actually getting on the horse and exaggerating the aids so I can see what it is you're doing. Some Aspies are no good at that and live in a world where there is no such thing as fiction. Everything they see, hear or read has to be real. So don't mind the lies, in her mind they may be entirely real.

Not only am I an Aspie, I am also teaching someone atm who shows a lot of traits. Including the pathological lying. Sometimes it's wishful - I used to do it too, and for me that was the case - and other times it's because we truly believe what it is we're saying. I still get called a liar, usually because of how I've perceived something differently to someone else.

Watch out for defensiveness. Aspies are perfectionists. We are our own worst critics. If such and such a detail is not perfect, and we don't know, we do want you to gently enlighten us, but PLEASE don't mention it more than just the once per lesson. Quickest way to shut us down, because we get defensive [I have set many a coach offside by saying "I KNOW THAT" or "I'm not STUPID you know!"]. If we DO know, I can't speak for all/most, but for me, it's wisest to keep your mouth shut.

Aspies are very intelligent. We lack social skills, and a lot of us don't cope well with change. We like to know a change is coming before it happens. It's very difficult for me, at least, to admit a problem, because that then means I have to do something about it - which means the dreaded change. But we don't want to be treated like we can't learn, because we CAN. If an Aspie is incapable of learning, then they are either so distressed by their own imperfections that they can't handle the idea of not knowing everything already, or they have something else inhibiting the learning process.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is that meltdowns are NOT voluntary. We don't have a choice. Most Aspies don't acknowledge their emotions easily and bottle it all up until all that pressure, all that emotion, has to go somewhere. I will admit, with much reluctance and trepidation, that I have been quite cruel to my mounts on more than one occasion. I hate that about me, and I'm working towards changing it, but please don't get angry at your student if she loses her temper at you or her horse. Put her on a horse or pony that can handle it, before she explodes at you or her mount, and put in place a consequence for inappropriate actions such as this.

I have to get off the horse and go cool down if I get too frustrated. That's the rules. If I lose my temper, I can't get back on.

I now realize an instant before I snap that I'm about to, but unfortunately don't have time to do anything about it. I will continue to grow and learn, and hopefully will learn enough self-control and self-recognition to be able to walk away from a situation before it blows up.

Many Aspies have anxiety and depression secondary to the syndrome, and some have/seem to have bipolar disorder. I am currently on a slippery slope and trying not to let myself fall farther down it into physical self-harm... as opposed to emotional self-harm which is where I'm at now. We need a LOT of emotional support, even if we don't realize/admit it. That's where the horses come in. They give us a warm neck to cry into, and a listening ear that will never judge or try to talk back.

Equine Assisted Therapy is WONDERFUL for people on the spectrum. I will never forget the good EAT has done for the autistic boy who comes now and then to ride my gelding... no professional therapy/intervention, just the horse and us constantly talking to him, asking him questions etc. He has gone from full on non-verbal [he would answer with one word, but volunteered nothing] to conversational, not always appropriate but he tries, and he sings whole songs. He has gone from a boy who had no hope of ever being independent, to a boy who, with continuing support, just might one day.

And me? I would be dead by now without my horses. For me they are a necessity, not a choice. It is a choice to have two [I can get by with one quite happily]... but my GP and psych have told me that no matter what, no matter how much I'm struggling financially, I must never EVER give up horses. I have dogs as well, but it's the horses that I think of when I slide down the slope again... it's the horses that have kept me from ending it all on more than one occasion.

The cruellest thing it is possible to say to an Aspie who has horses is that they should give them up and either not have pets at all, or get a goldfish. Never say that, no matter how angry you are at them, no matter how badly they have just treated their mount. Some Aspies can't come back from that.

We don't EXPRESS emotions very well but by god do we FEEL them. As before, I can't speak for EVERY Aspie, because there is such a huge range of traits and any given individual can display a trait to any degree... including always and not at all... but for me, it's actually a case of feeling TOO much, and not being able to cope with or process that level of emotion.

EDIT; whoops! Apologies for the novel... and I doubt it's going to be an easy or even very organised read, my mind is kind of chaotic at the moment.


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## Chessie (Mar 13, 2012)

I think you expressed yourself very eloquently.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

You expressed yourself well and gave us all an inside look to someone with Aspies. Something not many of us would ever know as it is a hard thing to express.

I am going to slip up a bit for a minute and let something personal out(I never do this on forums, learned my lesson in a huge way on that). I have BPD, PTSD as well as anxiety and depression and also struggle with LD's, one being dyslexia. It is because of these barriers I have that I am able to do so well with children and people with LD's or other disabilities. I am able to get into their head and understand them a bit better then other people might be able to.

I think its great B.E.P that you were able to open up and talk about this to help others understand it. And I think its great that you are actually able to feel when your about to tip over the edge. You might not be able to stop it yet, but you will learn to. The biggest struggle is sensing when its coming on. Once you get that you can work on helping control how bad it plays out. Its something that has taken me a long time to learn and feel. I still struggle time to time with it as my emotions run very high and drop very quickly.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

> We don't EXPRESS emotions very well but by god do we FEEL them


YES, yes and, once again - YES!

My movements may be awkward and my face may seem stiff at times, but I feel, as others do, and other aspies I know, do too. What is more, many of us are hypersensitive both to outer triggers (noise, smell, light, color, movement, INFORMATION, and absolutely anything else), but sometimes are unable to show the overload until a meltdown comes. For example, for me, one of the most difficult and fearsome things to do, is to simply cross a bridge during late, rainy autumn evenings. It is dark, but the car lights make bright, fast moving contrasts, which have their own, strange rhythm, the tires and engines are roaring with the ongoing sound of a rainfall, and everything seems to be happening at once with no chance to shut it down. It is so overwhelming that, being caught in it, I sometimes feel as if I could loose all orientation and jump under the traffic... So I avoid bridges in such nights. But people who have seen me in this state of panic, have told that I just look stiff and lifeless, with eyes gazing into nowhere and movements becoming slow and awkwardly mechanic. Yet inside - there is a storm going on... 

And the same thing can happen to an aspie during a lesson or a ride, if anything becomes overwhelming or triggers the meltdown. It is very much like with horses who seem to be capable to deal with lots of input and new information, but suddenly they explode, because faint signs of inner brainfreeze have not been noticed in time. If you know how to help such horses - you will be able to help an aspie.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks everyone, I thought it wouldn't flow well because my train of thought is not wanting to stay in one place at the moment. I'm a bit of a mess emotionally and I'm really very easily distracted by my own mind so sometimes I'll be typing and things just slip out. Often out of order, and it's terribly confusing to the people who are trying to make sense of what I've written, but just as confusing for me, if not worse!

I went back and re-read and my post flows better than I thought it did. I still wouldn't get an A if it was being marked as an assignment, but I'm glad to have gotten it out, and I'm glad you can all follow it without getting your heads all in a muddle. Hopefully my thoughts and experiences can help someone somewhere.



Saranda said:


> It is very much like with horses who seem to be capable to deal with lots of input and new information, but suddenly they explode, because faint signs of inner brainfreeze have not been noticed in time. If you know how to help such horses - you will be able to help an aspie.


I actually have one of such horses - she's not so bad now but when I first got her the explosions came literally out of nowhere. She gave not one single sign. One moment she would be standing calmly, resting a leg, head low... and the next she'd be on two legs almost falling over herself trying to get away.

I realized last night that I disconnect before a meltdown. I cross my arms [and sometimes my legs as well] and stare off into space. That helps for dealing with people, because I can ask for a little while to gather myself... but I'm not the same dealing with horses, my focus is better and I tend never to disconnect from them... so I need to figure out what my preliminary signs are when I'm working with the horses.

As emotional as I am at the moment I guarantee I will explode if I ride/handle either of my guys. I wonder if it might be a worthwhile exercise to go out, knowing that, and concentrate on what I'm feeling... and see if I can pinpoint what happens before I lose control. I can't risk it with Magic, but Monty always forgives me, eventually, so it's worth a shot.

Time for science!


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## tbcrazy (Sep 27, 2012)

What wonderful insight you both have given us all! One thing I say to ALL my riders, regardless of personal history etc, is that our horses are ridden a specific way when I give them a lesson. This tends to reduce defensiveness when they know that I don't think what they do is WRONG, just that its not appropriate for our horses since we do our best to keep the training consistent


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## Supanova (Jan 21, 2013)

I have worked with many children on the autism spectrum. I have found that they need to have very strict rules, if they muck up (ie misbehave or hurt the horses) they are off and not to ride again that session. They learn pretty bloody quickly to behave and do as they are told or they do not get to ride. 

As mentioned in another thread I had a teenage girl with Aspergers who was convinced she was the bees knees. She was very difficult to work with and would not listen to instruction at all as she thought she knew it all. The way to get through to her was to ask her to try my way, just give it a try and see how it goes, as that worked she continued to listen to me - until she got to the point where she wanted to do more that she was capable of. This is when we had major issues and she was instructed to go elsewhere if she was not going to ride in a safe and sensible manner. 

I have had other students with aspergers who responded very well to simple basic instructions. Yep, there were a couple of tantrums when things didnt go well but they did not abuse my horses as they know that is not on. I do have to keep an eye on the aspie volunteers and redirect them when they want to do something that is unsafe. (I get the "oh but I know how to do it!" all the time, I say, yes thats nice but this is what I want you to do now instead, I'd choose something I know they were capable of). I never gave out personal details and did not encourage personal interaction outside of riding so I cannot help you with the boundries issue.

Aspergers is no excuse to be an a**ehole. If the behaviour is inappropriate - tell them! They need to be responsible for their actions as much as the next person. People who pussyfoot around are not doing any them any favours for their future.


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

> Aspergers is no excuse to be an a**ehole.


It's not?! Aw, shucks!  



> If the behaviour is inappropriate - tell them! They need to be responsible for their actions as much as the next person.


Agree to this fully, though. And absolutely nothing is an excuse to hurt a horse. Although I know what spontaneous rage is, it HAS to be put under control and, on a bad day, one shouldn't even come close to horses until he's calmed down.


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## TerciopeladoCaballo (May 27, 2012)

Read Temple Grandin's books for specific help. She has Asperger's, and devoted her career to animals.

My kid sister has Asperger's (I probably do as well, about 5 members of my family have it), and she's a natural on horseback. She is the kind to be under-reactive to most senses. Your student is probably over-reactive. Do take the reins away, and have her work to get a good seat. I mean a very good seat. Solid seat. No deviation from excellent position throughout all gaits and transitions. People with ASD have problems with new things and changes of routine. She will only understand something if you give a specific example, 5 different ways. If you want her to keep her hands a certain way, take 5 photos at different angles of her doing it correctly. A camera is going to be your life saver. People with Asperger's and Autism tend to be very visual thinkers. They have trouble generalizing things, so your student might make a turn correctly over one course, not the next if the set ups are any different. Pay close, close attention to the steps that make up an action. You would do well to have her make the hand motions when she doesn't have reins in her hands.

You absolutely can't stand for any outbursts she has. Don't use the word "No", but tell her "You must not __(action she did)___" and tell her the right way to do it, every time. If she gets angry, have her take a break by herself for a moment; you don't want her to be shouting or stomping, you want her to cry instead. Crying is not destructive like angry behavior is, really emphasize that to her. The lunge line will work nicely, as the circular movement will re-balance her system. Watch what speed works for her. Too fast makes ASD people upset, too slow does nothing for them.


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## ButtInTheDirt (Jan 16, 2011)

My older sister has Aspergers and she took horse lessons for a long time. A lot of people have made very good points, and in my experience I would have to agree a lot of them. Just something to build on that has already been mentioned; Aspergers isn't an excuse. My sister has no respect for me because she is allowed to do whatever because she has autism. No person strives off of a structureless life, and she used to have lots of structure but as she has gotten older it has mostly gone away. 

We had a wonderful trainer, who was very nice and she learned lots from, but my sister was still very hard on my mare who she took lessons on. Not that this much responsibility for this woman lies in your hands, but having schedules and structure to even just lessons can really help a person. My sister used to be pleasant to talk to, but now I cannot bear to have a conversation with her as she is completely disrespectful and will do things because she knows there are no consequences for her actions. Their have to be rights and wrongs, and they have to be clear. My sister got mad at my mare, and would take her frustration out because it had to be the horse's fault, not her's. No one told her anything despite her pulling enough with just a snaffle to put sores in that mare's mouth. After a while I had to step in of simple fear of my mare's toungue getting sliced. 

My sister is about the same age as the woman you mentioned, and I am speaking more so in the point of view of a family member than anything. Sorry if I vented a bit, but it is a topic that is a bit hard on me. My sister was, and is, aloud to do as she pleases no matter how much it hurts other people and animals, so I hate to see all of the things that matter chucked out the window. But with all of these suggestions and your experience, it will still be a challenge, but you'll be a better person for it. I definitely wish I had someone to teach my sister like that, but at this point there is nothing I can do, and no one is willing to change. But, none the less, good luck to you.


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

NBEventer said:


> You expressed yourself well and gave us all an inside look to someone with Aspies. Something not many of us would ever know as it is a hard thing to express.
> 
> I am going to slip up a bit for a minute and let something personal out(I never do this on forums, learned my lesson in a huge way on that). I have BPD, PTSD as well as anxiety and depression and also struggle with LD's, one being dyslexia. It is because of these barriers I have that I am able to do so well with children and people with LD's or other disabilities. I am able to get into their head and understand them a bit better then other people might be able to.
> 
> I think its great B.E.P that you were able to open up and talk about this to help others understand it. And I think its great that you are actually able to feel when your about to tip over the edge. You might not be able to stop it yet, but you will learn to. The biggest struggle is sensing when its coming on. Once you get that you can work on helping control how bad it plays out. Its something that has taken me a long time to learn and feel. I still struggle time to time with it as my emotions run very high and drop very quickly.


*NBE *- I have BPD too (diagnosed in the last fortnight), and probably comorbid bipolar II (which I was originally diagnosed with - may have been a misdiagnosis though), and I have anxiety and depression chucked in like you. The diagnosis was a pretty big shock and it took a few days for me to get over it. I was pretty open with my bipolar diagnosis but BPD (and other personality disorders) carries so much stigma that I've only told my partner and my old boss (who is also a close friend). I don't think I can trust a lot of people I know personally to stick around with a diagnosis like this, and there is a hell of a lot of horrible stuff written about people with BPD on the internet. I found it very hurtful at first but I'm learning to skip over those bits and read the more scientific entries - still get p***ed off when some professionals talk about BPD people being self-centred compulsive liars who are impossible to live with :evil:

I'm still scared, but now that I understand myself better I feel a bit calmer knowing why my emotions are all over the place, why my very worst fear is abandonment and why I perceive events differently to others (and get called a liar - very frustrating!!). I'm about to start therapy and knowing that it has a very high success rate in a relatively short period of time (a few years) is heartening. It'd be nice to know that I can be close to "normal" one day.

I find talking with young kids and elderly people who have dementia or Alzheimers a lot easier than communicating with other adults. But there are times when I just need to be by myself and work through my thoughts - and other times when I can't bear to be by myself and need to be around other people because I think they might forget about my existence and then I'd no longer exist. Probably doesn't make much sense but there it is!

*BEP*, I found your post really quite beautiful in its explanation. While I don't have Asperger's there are quite a few similarities with what I go through with my disorder.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

EvilHorseOfDoom said:


> *NBE *- I have BPD too (diagnosed in the last fortnight), and probably comorbid bipolar II (which I was originally diagnosed with - may have been a misdiagnosis though), and I have anxiety and depression chucked in like you. The diagnosis was a pretty big shock and it took a few days for me to get over it. I was pretty open with my bipolar diagnosis but BPD (and other personality disorders) carries so much stigma that I've only told my partner and my old boss (who is also a close friend). I don't think I can trust a lot of people I know personally to stick around with a diagnosis like this, and there is a hell of a lot of horrible stuff written about people with BPD on the internet. I found it very hurtful at first but I'm learning to skip over those bits and read the more scientific entries - still get p***ed off when some professionals talk about BPD people being self-centred compulsive liars who are impossible to live with :evil:
> 
> I'm still scared, but now that I understand myself better I feel a bit calmer knowing why my emotions are all over the place, why my very worst fear is abandonment and why I perceive events differently to others (and get called a liar - very frustrating!!). I'm about to start therapy and knowing that it has a very high success rate in a relatively short period of time (a few years) is heartening. It'd be nice to know that I can be close to "normal" one day.
> 
> .


BPD is a heavy hit. I felt sucker punched when they diagnosed me. However I have done a lot of reading, talked to people and worked with a wonderful doctor and counselor and have come to accept it.

The stigma behind BPD is harsh. It seems every psycho out there who goes on mass killing sprees gets diagnosed BPD. One of my coworkers overheard me talking to my cousin about it and she made a back handed comment "we can't **** NBE off she might come in and shoot us all because she has BPD" needless to say I was not impressed. I took a minute and went for a walk, got my thoughts sorted and went back in and calmly spoke to my higher up and it was taken care of. 

It has taken me a few years to get a firm grasp on my emotions and be able to catch myself before I tip over that edge. Its a long battle but I promise it gets easier. Actually having the diagnosis has helped me because I have been able to read about it and talk about it and relate to others with it and it was an eye opener. The hardest emotion with it is the constantly feeling like you need to fit in and you will do almost anything to please those around you or say what you feel needs to be said even though its not how you feel. Which actually ties into the fear of abandonment. 

If you ever need to chat about it feel free to pm me. Also I would talk to your counselor and ask her if there are classes for BPD. We have a class here and its directed to BPD and how to live your day to day life with it and how to control your emotions and stop you from tipping off that ledge that you are constantly living on. The highs and lows and random stupid little things that make you feel like your chest is going to explode and you are going to scream bloody murder then cry because your upset that you were angry then get angry because you cried about being upset that you were angry then getting upset because.... well you get where I am going with this lol. 

But being able to talk about it is a step in the right direction. And as I said you are always free to drop me a pm and talk things through. I know how your mind ticks which is a big help when dealing through this.


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## EvilHorseOfDoom (Jun 17, 2012)

NBEventer said:


> BPD is a heavy hit. I felt sucker punched when they diagnosed me. However I have done a lot of reading, talked to people and worked with a wonderful doctor and counselor and have come to accept it.
> 
> The stigma behind BPD is harsh. It seems every psycho out there who goes on mass killing sprees gets diagnosed BPD. One of my coworkers overheard me talking to my cousin about it and she made a back handed comment "we can't **** NBE off she might come in and shoot us all because she has BPD" needless to say I was not impressed. I took a minute and went for a walk, got my thoughts sorted and went back in and calmly spoke to my higher up and it was taken care of.
> 
> ...


Thanks NBE! It was indeed a real sucker punch - especially when I found out that "borderline" didn't mean it was only half a disorder... For me the hardest thing has been realising that most of my behaviour (no matter how "minor") is part of the disorder and my doctor saying it wasn't just something that could be removed because it's an integral part of who I am. For a few days that made me feel like a bad person and not worthy of existence - and of course my negative reaction to what he said comes from having BPD in the first place! But reading up on it has really helped and I've started to recognise some behaviour before it gets into full swing.

Thanks, I will PM you!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Evil, thank you! I like words... they are one of my passions. Perhaps one day I'll write a horse book that is, you know, actually realistic. No 'majikal bond' here!

Right now I'm working on a fanfiction novel based on the Halo universe [I doubt anyone doesn't know what Halo is, but if I'm wrong, it's a game franchise... the only Halo game my family doesn't own is Halo 2 and I'm pretty sure we have a copy of every book that's been released on the franchise as well] and, right now, today, halfway through the plotline I've thought up, I have 23 1/2 chapters and a total of over 61,500 words. Oops... a bit TOO wordy methinks!

Aaaanyway, the point of telling you that is to emphasize the Aspie trait to have a really one-track mind, and to glom onto an idea or project and just not let it go! I started my "book" in November 2012 and 3 months later... yeah... that's the insane level of fixation I'm capable of!


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## minstrel (Mar 20, 2012)

I too have Asperger's - only mildly, but with some of the same traits as described: a need for clear, precise, literal instructions; perfectionism which can result in me getting very upset and teary when I can't get things right; and a real dislike for changes to my routine, which can make me anxious. When being pushed out of my comfort zone, I can be very anxious, but my instructor has a way of challenging me to try things that works well for encouraging me to be determined rather than focusing on fear. My balance can sometimes be a bit off as well, which made me very nervous about jumping for a long time. However I'm very lucky - my balance has improved a lot, and the more I've done with horses the more confident and easier to work with I've become. However, I'm still picky about my instructors, and often need someone to give me a pep talk before competing!


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## Saranda (Apr 14, 2011)

Just came across one of the hardest things for an aspie and an aspies' dislike for change in routine. I have to move barns! Argh! I really have to, the situation in the current one is not beneficial for me or my horse in long-term, but I'm anxious, frustrated and nervous to no end, and fighting back obsessive thoughts like "you should stay, it could be worse in the other place" or "maybe everything will get better, you just wait and see!". So I've made a list with pros and cons of both places and looking all the time at the pros of the other barn I'm most likely moving to, which hugely overthrow the count of pros of my current barn. Making charts, lists and writing argumented essays and thesis greatly help in such times when a hard decision has to be taken, but those unnecessary fears and dislikes can step in the way.

I also really want to start competing this summer, but I'm afraid to step into the jumping ring and be a mess, so I've talked a friend into competing along with me in the same class, so that there is someone to encourage me and not to let me run away from what I want to do.


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## Chessie (Mar 13, 2012)

Actually, that's not wordy at all. Novelists on deadline usually have to write about 80,000 words in four months, with a month or two for revision time before a six month deadline kicks in.

And writing fan fiction is a great way to learn the ins and outs of writing genre fiction.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Chessie said:


> Actually, that's not wordy at all. Novelists on deadline usually have to write about 80,000 words in four months, with a month or two for revision time before a six month deadline kicks in.
> 
> And writing fan fiction is a great way to learn the ins and outs of writing genre fiction.


Only halfway through the story, though?! -hides-

I could quite easily write 120k+ words on this one, and actually, if things keep going in the direction they're going, that guesstimate could possibly double. I have a massive amount of planned content to cover and my main character over-thinks EVERYTHING, which makes things a lot wordier than they really need to be... but it does explain a lot of the decisions he makes which don't necessarily make sense without the crazy amounts of thought.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that publishers don't like taking risks on debut novels so they don't tend to want to publish something more than about 50,000 words long? I'm never going to be able to condense a story down that far. I don't have just one plot, ever. I have 6 different sub-plots going in this particular fanfiction at any given time, and each mission my Spartans are sent on addresses a different aspect of the team dynamic and how they work together. I'm going to have my main leader-character get injured again very soon and explore the difference it makes to the team not to have him on missions with them, but first, I need to give the two who are currently injured a little bit of time to recover... and get the guys all back together again and on the warship they're stationed on.

Fanfiction is fun but I really do need to get started on my own concepts at some stage. I'm working on a world at the moment but I'm not 100% sure how the concepts are going to mesh with an original storyline... perhaps I'll write something set in the real world about Aspergers and riding at some stage... I mean if I'm writing from experience how can I go wrong, right?


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## Chessie (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, use the fan fiction to learn how to handle these things. Your debut novel doesn't have to be shorter. Mine for YA is about 90K. 

Take your next fan fiction project and give yourself a limited word count. I give myself 30 chapters of 12 pages each, and shoot for that in each chapter. Try to plot out how to get the whole story in within that constraint, and practice your story arcs. 

When you're ready to try your own writing, you'll know. In the mean time, fan fiction is a wonderful tool for learning how to "hone your craft".

And I think a book about the bond between a horse and a girl with Aspergers would be really marketable right now.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

That's what I've been doing - I'm using the universe that Bungie/Microsoft created and inserting a few of my own concepts, strong characters, and my own storyline. I'm also playing with a world at the moment where humans and horses don't exist - instead we have Fey and Flash - and how the existence of magic makes that world different to ours. It's far more dangerous, and life is no easier, because magic is sourced from light and the Fey can't store light... nor can Flash, barring the rare individuals whose special markings act like prisms.

I might stick what I have so far on my world up in the stories/poems section... I think I've hijacked this thread long enough!


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## BlooBabe (Jul 7, 2012)

You said she messes with the reins because the horse is 'acting up' ask her how the horse is acting up, or suggest another way for her to react to it. Telling her to do one thing obviously isn't comfortable for her if she keeps going back to her old methods. Maybe a trainer before told her to hold the reins like that. 'Drop your hands' is a very vague statement so maybe try telling or showing her how to hold the reins instead. My cousin has aspergers. She was very reactive and gave a short explanation of things because she felt she couldn't tell me how she was really feeling. But when I stopped and gave her the time to tell me how she felt things went better. Sometimes it took her longer to figure out how to put her feelings into words so she just did what made her feel comfortable. Be clear with your instructions without being vague and try giving her alternate things to do. Instead of saying 'don't do that' show her or tell her how it should be done.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

BlooBabe said:


> Instead of saying 'don't do that' show her or tell her how it should be done.


THIS. THIS THIS THIS. I can't emphasize it enough.

Aspies are perfectionists. HUGE perfectionists. We don't like to be told we're wrong, but we love to be shown a better way of doing things... if it's shown to us right. For example, the best coach I have EVER had said to me:

"Instead of concentrating on the sideways, concentrate on picking up those shoulders and putting them where you want them. He'll move off your leg so much easier."

BINGO instant awesome laterals. Well.. awesome compared to what my horse HAS been giving me. She didn't say I was doing it wrong, she didn't say don't whatever... she just said "oh this way's a bit easier, how about you try it?"


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## yidete (Mar 4, 2013)

I'm mildly somewhere on the autistic spectrum (where I live no one bothers to diagnose or treat that as long as you function more or less in an acceptable manner) and also suffer from depression and anxiety (that gets treated by drugging me up terribly) as well as a nasty joint disorder.

Horses have helped me amazingly both with keeping my body and my soul together, but I do face challenges.

The main one is probably riding in the same arena with other riders. I seem to be unable to figure out what will they do next. Iyt's ok if only one or two horses are there and we all work under one trainer, but if there are ''freelancers'' as well, the Hell comes loose. Several times only my horse galloping away saved me from crashing.(luckily I ride on belt or bareback and have exceptionally stable seat, I have fallen only if for some reason I'm riding on a saddle). I also get nervos if there are no visual cues which indicate where I have to ride, for example the arena has been just smoothed out and there are no trails in the sand. I also dislike using a crop and will work with my legs and back to the point of exhaustion to get horse moving where a small tap would solve the issue.

I absolutely enjoy riding without reins, when I was younger my trainer had this old and really safe horse, she would just let me in the small arena all alone and let me trot around without reins. It's such a sense of freedom!


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

Just came across this. Hope things are going well for you, Piper.

I have autism and I ride. 

Back when I was in lessons, the hardest thing for me was switching horses. I grew very attached to my horse that I rode regularly and it was difficult to switch. I did learn to do that, though, and I'm glad I got the chance to ride many different horses.

My main issue is I cry (or laugh or have other inappropriate reactions to emotions) when I get frustrated, and along with sensory/social issues, I have fine and large motor issues. I may want to move my hand a certain way, but I can't. Up until a few years ago I could not tie my own boots, I could barely do the buckles on my bridle because of the finger work involved. Everyone asks why my horses go so well without nosebands, it's because I was too klutzy to use them for so long  At any rate, I would end up crying, not because I was unhappy or not even because I wasn't having fun, it is just the main way my emotions came out, especially when I was a younger adult.

Remember too, that any sensory problem is going to come out ten fold when it's hot, when it's cold, when she's sore, if it's loud in the arena, etc... I take medications to help with these things, but still if too many senses go into hyperdrive at once, I have a bit of a meltdown (which for me is silent, not the angry/screaming a lot of people get).

My current trainer has been the best in regards to my learning and riding, not only do I feel comfortable and confident in him, but he does not ever raise his voice, which leads me to yelling "what??" sometimes, and he follows along being very visual with me, walking me through things one step at a time. 

I am glad to see the amount of people here opening up. I also have BPD, autism, depression and anxiety, and there is so much stigma attached that it becomes a tough burden to carry by yourself.

This video is embarassing because it's from 4 years ago and very poor riding, however you can see the way both my trainers deal with my mistakes. Not harsh, just repeating until we get it right. My mare can be hot, but very rarely am I afraid of her, but the stadium part of the video I was afraid. My reaction to fear is to laugh, which is why I'm laughing hysterically in the second part of the video, every time I gave her the inside rein she would bolt. The better thing would have been to quit the lesson and work on ground rails or just on the longe to slow my mare down (which we have to do often) but I think this was a couple days before a horse trial. I was too afraid to release because of her speed and jumping imaginary fences by the open end of the arena. I've been told by every trainer to get an easier horse, but honestly, after 13 years with this one, that change would probably kill me 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4tLjnqAEjk


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## Saengchwi (Mar 15, 2013)

Just a quick note on hurting the horses occasionally.

I have a child with autism and we have had her ride with a bare-back pad and a side-pull halter. Its all shes ever been offered to use to ride at this point. 

This was my choice because I wanted the physical therapy bare-back would offer and because I wanted her to learn how to communicate with the horse through body language not by tugging at its mouth. 

The last reason is that the side-pull halter kept her from hurting our pony while she learned about body language. Body language is a skill that most are born with and some are not. Like any skill, it can grow with practice. 

I'm not a therapist, I only know my own child as best I can. But perhaps the side-pull halter has value for other children or adults with autism. 

If nothing else, it can keep the horse from getting hurt while the rider learns about consequences and the instructors expectations.


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## NeuroticMare (Jan 8, 2012)

Excellent point Saen!

I ride my mare with a leather sidepull with a fleece over the nose for jumping, not only because I make mistakes, but because of her pink face she gets very sunburned and her lips will crack. I school her in her regular bridle/bit once a week or so because she HAS to go in a bit for dressage.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

I have not read through this whole thread but wanted to just say, I was under the understanding that people with the high functioning Asperger's have trouble lying. My son has Asperger's and really is uncomfortable when he does not want to tell you something because he seem incapable of lying. 
Makes me think.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

nvr2many, it's different for everyone on the spectrum. I am DEFINITELY an Aspie, and I have no problem with lying. I'm pretty terrible at it and nobody ever believes me, but I have no difficulty with the concept. My brother on the other hand, who doesn't function as well as I do [it runs in our family, we never had a chance of being 'normal' LOL], CANNOT lie. He has no filter :/ "your hair looks weird" pops out of his mouth on a regular basis. Mine is short atm and if I don't spend 1/2 hour in the bathroom in the morning, battling with hair gel, it sticks up in every direction. Granted, it DOES look pretty weird, but that's still a really awful thing to say to someone. He cops it EVERY time, but seems incapable of learning to keep his mouth shut.

I also get "short hair doesn't suit you" from him, which is absolute bull, it does, and I get comments from EVERYONE else I meet about how nice my haircut is [when it's gelled] - he just has NO fashion sense! He isn't used to me having short hair, so it's a change, and he can't handle change. But he's going to have to get used to it, because I like having short hair.

With some Aspies it seems to be selective - some of us can lie about certain things [for example, "I have a pony, no seriously, I really do" was one of my regular lies when I was little, I leased a pony for about 9 months when I was 7 and was -almost- given one for my 9th birthday but that didn't end up happening... I was 14 when I got my first horse] and not about others. I struggled with the concept of little 'white lies' when I was about 8, before you turn 8 people don't mind so much if you just blurt it out [you're a kid after all] but then people started getting all offended if I said what was on my mind. It was terribly confusing. Someone would ask how they looked, and I would honestly tell them that their skirt made them look fat, and would get evil looks... but they ASKED for my opinion! It wasn't MY fault they didn't like it. Right? Took me a while to get that one.


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## nvr2many (Jan 18, 2011)

Well, thank you! Maybe I am just lucky that he doesn't, lol. OR maybe he does and is good at it, lol. He is very high functioning and we didn't even discover it until he was in the fifth grade! Crazy huh?? Thing with him tho is, I will ask him something and he will say, I don't know, and I am like what do you mean you don't know. Then I wonder if he is lying.

Oh and then there is my daughter, she is a tag kid, top 3% in the nation with smarts. Started school at 4 and graduated a year early, played two instruments, wants to major in law and minor in psychology.

Ah, raising kids!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

"I don't know" might be his way of saying "I know but I don't want to tell you what I think and I don't want to lie to you".

I was ten when I was 'provisionally' diagnosed. Four years later I was seen by a team of "specialists" [they didn't actually have a clue, long story that one] who said I was 'quirky' but neurotypical. I've always been high functioning.

Aspies are very intelligent, good at book smarts. When we can be bothered. LOL! I am not into numbers at all, so I don't put much if any effort into math. For some reason numbers when applied to money is fun though? And even more fun applied to horses directly.

I want to say more but I have to go - motorbike riding with my dad today and he just arrived to pick me up!


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## TerciopeladoCaballo (May 27, 2012)

Hey... wanted to add that I now know that I have Asperger's as well as my sister, mother, and three more relatives on my mother's side! Funny thing is, all the affected are women, and ASD is supposed to affect primarily males. I don't think I've met more than two girls with ASD... Somehow the genes in my mother's family dictate the women to be susceptible, there are few boys born into the family, and those that are do not have any disorder (besides tending to be alcoholics). I'll be hunted down for studies at some point xD
We're all high-functioning enough to live on our own, so the diagnosis doesn't come easy. It's only when you wonder about how we are socially and how we react to stimuli that you hear "ASPERGER'S" big and loud. We tend to suck at school and do best by ourselves, though if we want to fit in we can be "fake" easily with a little smile and high-pitched giggle at anything someone says. My parents took me out of school in first grade when the staff said I must be dyslexic due to failing in reading/writing. I just didn't work well in a group setting. So my mother bought me a bunch of books and I schooled myself. By the time I had to go to high school to get a higher education, the eval showed that I was college-level in reading and writing, but below average in math. I hate fractions, and it took me a long time to figure out what variables were. I'm above-average in trigonometry though


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