# Schooling from today



## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

I got me dad to take a video of my riding from today. I kinda sucked today when it came to jumping but I felt like I was doing pretty good trotting. However, I really need some outside opinions, so if you guys could critique us please that would be awesome! Some background, he is a 6 year old ottb who hates contact and frequently bucks, hollows his back, or throws his head way down to get away from the bit. He is really hard to get into a frame he just fights it. I think we were jumping like 1'3" or 1'6" here, so he was just kinda stepping over it. We haven't been jumping very long. So anywho, please be nice but tell me what I need to work on. Oh and btw I am getting more holes punched in my stirrups cause they are on the shortest one here and I feel like they are too long. Thanks everybody!!


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

No leaning at the fence. Make a conscious effort to keep your hands quiet.


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## xJumperx (Feb 19, 2012)

Just curious, is this a lesson horse or your own horse?


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

Oxer said:


> No leaning at the fence. Make a conscious effort to keep your hands quiet.


Thanks Oxer! Yeah I think I was throwing him off balance by leaning on his neck so much. And yeah my hands suck, I have been working on them :/ Question, when do I need to go into to point, when he jumps or before? Thanks again!


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

xJumperx said:


> Just curious, is this a lesson horse or your own horse?


He is mine  I have had him for almost a year and a half. I don't take lessons though I wish I could :/


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## Oxer (Jul 9, 2010)

the way i have learned not to jump ahead is simply by looking up and ahead. when i pick my head up and look beyond the jump, then it makes it impossible for me to anticipate the jump. This in turn allows me to simply follow my horse with my body. a 2 point, especially at this height, should just flow. No ducking, no flopping, no hurling yourself at your horse. Just go with him. hahaha!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't jump, but I can see that you are not very stable, thus your hand problems. I wonder if you should leave jumping for a bit and just work on riding.

Your horse looks really unhappy about the whole affair, and the way he wants to buck upon landing, and runs in a hollow, choppy way of moving suggests that maybe, just maybe, there is some discomfort issue. Could be the saddle is not fitting well. Could be his SacroIlliac joint is "out" . could be nothing. But, whenever a horse buckes at the canter, the first thing to think about is pain.

And, his aversion to contact should also make you consider having his mouth looked at by a dental vet.

Please forgive me if I am telling you things you have already dealt with. But this is what comes to mind. The way the horse moves is very "defensive and protective". This way of moving is hard for a rider to ride; the back is hollow, the step choppy and the horse is rushing out from under the rider.

What do you think about these ideas?


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

Oxer said:


> the way i have learned not to jump ahead is simply by looking up and ahead. when i pick my head up and look beyond the jump, then it makes it impossible for me to anticipate the jump. This in turn allows me to simply follow my horse with my body. a 2 point, especially at this height, should just flow. No ducking, no flopping, no hurling yourself at your horse. Just go with him. hahaha!


I will try looking ahead more  Thanks so much 




tinyliny said:


> I don't jump, but I can see that you are not very stable, thus your hand problems. I wonder if you should leave jumping for a bit and just work on riding.
> 
> Your horse looks really unhappy about the whole affair, and the way he wants to buck upon landing, and runs in a hollow, choppy way of moving suggests that maybe, just maybe, there is some discomfort issue. Could be the saddle is not fitting well. Could be his SacroIlliac joint is "out" . could be nothing. But, whenever a horse buckes at the canter, the first thing to think about is pain.


 I don't think he is in any pain, he runs around his pasture all the time. I honestly think his bucking is just disobedience. In that vid I was trying to keep him at a trot but he kept wanting to run off.



> And, his aversion to contact should also make you consider having his mouth looked at by a dental vet.


Yeah he needs his teeth floated, I told my dad that a few times but he doesn't seem too enthused about the idea. :/


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Just some advice on his bucking and being a brat: if he indeed is not in pain and is just being disrespectful, I highly suggest the one-rein stop. It would benefit you to make sure your seat is very secure - I actually think your stirrups are too short; you are leaning forward a lot and seem to not be able to wrap your legs around him. Once this is remedied, when he starts to put his head down to buck, or tries to take off on you, slide one hand down your rein (either side, but inside rein is easier) and crank his nose into your boot, pushing him with your outside leg to go into a tight circle until he decides it is no fun. A few times doing this and he might find you mean business. 

Just my two cents. Be careful doing this, especially at a trot or canter, as he could lose his balance too much and fall. Also be careful not to slam into his mouth when asking for the circle, just glide into it. Be calm and collected; he will understand that your intent is to show him it is not okay to be so naughty. 

Again, be certain he is sound and not acting out in pain. 

Cheers,
RSS
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Okay... I'm not going to comment on the jumping bit since I don't jump 

What I see is a lot of leaning.. your arms are kind of just.. flopping around or floating and not FOLLOWING his movement. I see him bracing all over and generally being very sour.

I think you need to work on your warm up. Do you have a trainer?

Warm up at the walk, getting him to loosen up. Gentle flexing, bending, circles, and figures (like serpentines, weaving, figure eights, spirals) when he's nice and loose, send him forward and do some leg yields on and off the track. Change direction often. Slowwwwwwwww downnnnnnnnnnn. You're kind of rushing through everything, when he's not really "with you" if you understand what I mean. 

It's like you're chasing him when you trot, you were posting very sharply.

So relax.. soften your body, and don't trot until he's together and relaxed and loose at the walk.

As for contact, it's not consistent. It's loose-tight, loose-tight. Release.. JAB.. release.. JAB which isn't very nice on their mouths and also causes them to really dislike contact.

Change your arms. Your elbows can open and close. When you rise, they open up and your hands stay just where you left them.. when you sit, they close, leaving your hands just where you left them.

I can see a lot of things that, if they were smoother.. you'd be a very nice team.

If you don't have a trainer, I highly encourage you to find one. You'll improve in leaps and bounds once you target the things that need fixing.

But I really would work more on your walk before you trot.

And just so you know, I am not saying this is all you. Or your fault.. the horse needs a lot of work too but doing what I have advised would benefit you both as your riding directly affects him, and he directly affects your riding.


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

RunSlideStop said:


> Just some advice on his bucking and being a brat: if he indeed is not in pain and is just being disrespectful, I highly suggest the one-rein stop. It would benefit you to make sure your seat is very secure - I actually think your stirrups are too short; you are leaning forward a lot and seem to not be able to wrap your legs around him. Once this is remedied, when he starts to put his head down to buck, or tries to take off on you, slide one hand down your rein (either side, but inside rein is easier) and crank his nose into your boot, pushing him with your outside leg to go into a tight circle until he decides it is no fun. A few times doing this and he might find you mean business.
> 
> Just my two cents. Be careful doing this, especially at a trot or canter, as he could lose his balance too much and fall. Also be careful not to slam into his mouth when asking for the circle, just glide into it. Be calm and collected; he will understand that your intent is to show him it is not okay to be so naughty.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much I will definitely try that! He has OCD in his stifle but he doesn't appear lame or sore and vet said that he was okay he just could race so I don't think it is causing him any pain, he is just being a brat.


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

After rewatching your video, I would bet he is not only pained in the mouth but pained in the back because you tend to bounce around a lot. My suggestion would be to lose the stirrups for a while and practice riding all three gaits without them. Bareback is even better. When you want to go into two-point, grip with your calves and your thighs. It sounds funny, but when you practice it (at a stand still or walk) it will make sense. 

You have a lot of potential, and seem very happy to ride despite the incongruity in communication between yourself and Paradise. Keep up the good work and you two will be stars!

Cheers,
RSS
_Posted via Mobile Device_

ETA: I meant inside leg for one rein stop. Use your inside leg back behind the girth to move move move those hindquarters. Outside leg at girth will help hold him up a bit, but inside leg pushing that booty is key.


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Okay... I'm not going to comment on the jumping bit since I don't jump
> 
> What I see is a lot of leaning.. your arms are kind of just.. flopping around or floating and not FOLLOWING his movement. I see him bracing all over and generally being very sour.


Yes, I notice this too. I will try to follow his movement more 



> I think you need to work on your warm up. Do you have a trainer?
> 
> Warm up at the walk, getting him to loosen up. Gentle flexing, bending, circles, and figures (like serpentines, weaving, figure eights, spirals) when he's nice and loose, send him forward and do some leg yields on and off the track. Change direction often. Slowwwwwwwww downnnnnnnnnnn. You're kind of rushing through everything, when he's not really "with you" if you understand what I mean.


No I don't have a trainer. I would like to take lessons but I can't. Thanks for the warm up ideas! My warm up is usually about 10 minutes of walking around. We start by going long and low once in each direction the do some change or reins, then extending on either the long or short sides or the arena, and collecting on the opposite sides, and then do some posting and sitting trot work. Do you have suggestions on teaching leg yields? I have tried this a couple times but I don't think he understands what I am asking.



> It's like you're chasing him when you trot, you were posting very sharply.
> 
> So relax.. soften your body, and don't trot until he's together and relaxed and loose at the walk.
> 
> ...


Thank you for all of your help! I definitely get what you mean and see the mistakes you pointed out. I am really sort of at a plateau right now, I think we will both improve immensely when I can ride him everyday, right now it is only once a week.




RunSlideStop said:


> After rewatching your video, I would bet he is not only pained in the mouth but pained in the back because you tend to bounce around a lot. My suggestion would be to lose the stirrups for a while and practice riding all three gaits without them. Bareback is even better. When you want to go into two-point, grip with your calves and your thighs. It sounds funny, but when you practice it (at a stand still or walk) it will make sense.
> 
> You have a lot of potential, and seem very happy to ride despite the incongruity in communication between yourself and Paradise. Keep up the good work and you two will be stars!
> 
> ...


Thank you RSS you have been so very helpful! He is not a fan of riding bareback but I will for sure lose the stirrups and the jumps for a while. Thank you for the compliments, lately I have felt like I am going no where


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> My warm up is usually about 10 minutes of walking around. We start by going long and low once in each direction the do some change or reins, then extending on either the long or short sides or the arena, and collecting on the opposite sides, and then do some posting and sitting trot work. Do you have suggestions on teaching leg yields? I have tried this a couple times but I don't think he understands what I am asking.


Curious how you get long and low as well as extension and collection without contact? I would humbly suggest getting his feet moving moving moving from the ground first, then at a walk (things like haunch turns, forehand turns, lits and lots of stops and backing). [Keep in mind a stop is not a stop of motion, its a direction change, if that makes sense]. 

As for yielding, make sure he knows how to move each part of his body on the ground before trying in the saddle. A leg yield in my mind can mean many things. Shoulder in/shoulder out, haunches in/haunches out, a half pass, a simple diagonal movement as opposed to straight line. All of these require understanding of how to move his bum and his forehand, starting from the ground. Once you have that mastered, you can master things like flying lead changes, etc. 

Does that all make sense? :s

Cheers,
RSS


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

A trainer would really really help you progress.....




trIplEcrOwngIrl said:


> Do you have suggestions on teaching leg yields? I have tried this a couple times but I don't think he understands what I am asking.
> 
> I think we will both improve immensely when I can ride him everyday, right now it is only once a week.



Yeah agreed.. riding once a week is hard to progress on. Do you have time to lunge him during the week or work on the ground?

If your horse knows how to yield different parts of his body on the ground, it should be easier to do under saddle. We were just beginning to teach Sky a leg yield. The trick is keeping the front straight.. and for us when I put more weight on the seat bone opposite the direction I was going (so if I wanted to leg yield left, I put a little more weight on the right seatbone)

There's a better explanation on the forum somewhere lol.. don't take my advice since I'm new at this myself. 

But bottom line, you don't do a lot of leg yield steps, 1 or 2 off the track, 1 or 2 back on. Keep the front end straight, sit up tall, and don't spend forever on it.. just once or twice per ride. 

And I hope I don't offend.. but just because you do posting or sitting trot, doesn't mean that it's time to move onto the canter. Or same goes for walking long and low. You have to do it right, or else your horse will just brace the entire time. I speak from experience.. :/


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

RunSlideStop said:


> Curious how you get long and low as well as extension and collection without contact? I would humbly suggest getting his feet moving moving moving from the ground first, then at a walk (things like haunch turns, forehand turns, lits and lots of stops and backing). [Keep in mind a stop is not a stop of motion, its a direction change, if that makes sense].
> 
> 
> As for yielding, make sure he knows how to move each part of his body on the ground before trying in the saddle. A leg yield in my mind can mean many things. Shoulder in/shoulder out, haunches in/haunches out, a half pass, a simple diagonal movement as opposed to straight line. All of these require understanding of how to move his bum and his forehand, starting from the ground. Once you have that mastered, you can master things like flying lead changes, etc.
> ...


Thank you I will try that 



Skyseternalangel said:


> A trainer would really really help you progress.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well the problem is my parents can only take me once a week. We are moving down where I keep him in august so I will have a lot more time to ride then.



> If your horse knows how to yield different parts of his body on the ground, it should be easier to do under saddle. We were just beginning to teach Sky a leg yield. The trick is keeping the front straight.. and for us when I put more weight on the seat bone opposite the direction I was going (so if I wanted to leg yield left, I put a little more weight on the right seatbone)
> 
> There's a better explanation on the forum somewhere lol.. don't take my advice since I'm new at this myself.
> 
> But bottom line, you don't do a lot of leg yield steps, 1 or 2 off the track, 1 or 2 back on. Keep the front end straight, sit up tall, and don't spend forever on it.. just once or twice per ride.


 Thanks for the tips!



> And I hope I don't offend.. but just because you do posting or sitting trot, doesn't mean that it's time to move onto the canter. Or same goes for walking long and low. You have to do it right, or else your horse will just brace the entire time. I speak from experience.. :/


Yeah I get what you mean. thanks


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## RunSlideStop (Apr 21, 2012)

Off topic, I am impressed by your openness to suggestions. Kudos for not making excuses and being humble. You seem like you will go far. 

Cheers,
RSS


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## Poneigh (May 25, 2012)

The bucking to me looked like it happened when he was caught on the back and mouth over the fence. He seems like a very sensitive guy who will teach you to ride well. id suggest trot poles ( like four or four and a half feet apart) or canter poles (9 feet) and just hold your 2 point over them to help build your muscles and secure your position. 
also, shorten those reins and organize, girl! ride as if you have all the time in the world and dont approach the jump if you feel like he's not listening too you, your reins are too long or you dont have a consistent gait!
overall i think you guys have a lot of potential as a team and you seem like a smart very able rider, you just need to polish up a bit and get your limbs under control


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## trIplEcrOwngIrl (May 13, 2009)

Why thank you RSS! I appreciate your kind words 



Poneigh said:


> The bucking to me looked like it happened when he was caught on the back and mouth over the fence. He seems like a very sensitive guy who will teach you to ride well.


 I think you are probably right about him being caught in the mouth. He is a pretty sensitive horse. 


> id suggest trot poles ( like four or four and a half feet apart) or canter poles (9 feet) and just hold your 2 point over them to help build your muscles and secure your position.


Thanks for the tip, I will try that 


> also, shorten those reins and organize, girl! ride as if you have all the time in the world and dont approach the jump if you feel like he's not listening too you, your reins are too long or you dont have a consistent gait!


haha will do 
[/QUOTE]overall i think you guys have a lot of potential as a team and you seem like a smart very able rider, you just need to polish up a bit and get your limbs under control [/QUOTE]
Thanks so much! I just hope I am not totally ruining the poor horse!


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## Amberish2002 (May 26, 2012)

I'd suggest lots of transitions, up and down with lots of changes in direction. Trot walk halt back, mix it up.. Figure eights, Cloverleafs, he'll soon figure out that when he yields to your requests, The pressure goes away. I mean like 20 minutes or so of straight up work... Every time youre on. Its old school but it works with the ones that worry and get hot. Goal to get him to relax and listen to you ..And will help your leg/ seat and hands. Concentrate in where you are going and don't change your mind. He'll soon start going where you're looking. At first in vid, he's going pretty well. Seemed like he got agitated when he didn't know where to go, or when you got contact back after the jumps. Btw, Shorter reins when jumping. You have to move your hands a lot to get the contact and sometimes it's quick, so it might hit his mouth. One thing to try that seems counterintuitive... Rubber bit. Not saying it will work for him, but it did for my mare who had the same issues.... (for her, it gave her less to fight, so she stopped fighting.)


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