# Sticky  My horse "exploded out of nowhere" -- or did she?



## walkinthewalk

Annnnd this is why the young and not knowledgeable, because they are young and lack experience, and also new adult horse owners need to read threads like this from the experienced 
👍😎👍😎

A great explanation that should probably be pinned — Mods?

I would never call that a “bad” reaction from Elle. I call it a response to a deep seated mental trigger.

I try to be on “high watch” with Duncan because his ground manners are too impeccable, if that makes sense.

I had to board Duke in his youth. To his last day in his 27th years, a swinging ball cap would send him in a panic to the back corner of his stall with his nose in the corner 😥😥. I got the stable hand fired when I caught him do that to Duke, and I forever after chastised anyone who waved one at him.

My point is there are some things each horse will never get over, just like us with abuse or neglect — we can push it down and out of the front memory but it still stays buried waiting for a trigger.

Your a great mom to Elle, don’t keep beating yourself up. However, I’m glad you wrote this out — I just hope you are t preaching to the choir and someone who needs to read it, does👍😘👍


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## bsms

Is tacking up without tying an option?


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## ClearDonkey

This is a really wonderful write-up @SteadyOn - I've been in the same exact place with Minnie before where I've completely missed the small triggers stacking up resulting in an explosion, which usually leaves me scratching my head thinking "she's been fine with this every other day, what's different about today?" and then kicking myself when I realized the signs I missed. I think it's so important to be empathetic to our horses and realize that most of the time when they are being "bad" that more than likely the failure was on our part.


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## SteadyOn

bsms said:


> Is tacking up without tying an option?


It is! Well, sort of. We used to do that all the time with her -- just ground-tying her in the aisle -- before I started getting her used to cross-tying again. Now one of the boarders has taken to storing her hay right beside the cross-tie/tack up area. Sigh!

We're moving barns in a week and a half though anyhow, so this should be a short-lived problem, at least.


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## PinkPrancer

Last summer I saw Warwick Schiller live at a horse expo, and what you're describing sounds really similar to his discussion. He used the metaphors of rabbits on a trail, essentially using the rabbits for every little trigger that builds up in a horse's mind. So if a rabbit runs out on the trail and spooks your horse, you might get a little spook at first, but then you move on and keep riding. However, just because YOU have moved on, doesn't mean the horse has fully recovered. So when a second rabbit runs out, the spook might feel the same, but the tension is rising in your horse's brain, until eventually the 10th rabbit runs out and your horse breaks into a full-fledged gallop. In our minds, that feels like an over-reaction to a single rabbit, especially when we've already recovered 9 times before, but to the horse, it's the buildup of all 10 rabbits.

I'm probably not explaining it right, but hopefully the gist of it makes sense 😅 But this metaphor has really stuck with me and it's something I try to be really mindful of when I'm around my horse. If something catches his attention and he's on edge or distracted, I try to make sure he's fully processed what it is before moving on to the next step. I'm sure I miss things or don't always do it right, but I try my best to be aware.


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## Acadianartist

Horses have no patience for humans who hurry. I've been put in my place a few times when I tried to rush. 

Yesterday, my daughter had a bad experience with our pony Bella. Things had been going so well with her that she decided she'd take her on a hand-walk around the property. Sounds like fun right? Not to Bella, who flipped out when she could no longer see her buddies, tore the lead line out of my daughter's hand, kicked her in the leg (not hard, and in the thigh), and ran back to the barn. My daughter was so mad... she lunged her for a few minutes to re-assert herself, put Bella back in the barn, and came in to cool down. Maybe an hour later she went back out, and took Bella for a hand walk around the house again, with me in tow for supervision. Every step was carefully measured. If Bella so much as put one hoof forward without permission, or behaved the least bit rudely, she was backed up and not allowed to eat grass. If she was polite and well-behaved, she could eat a bit. They walked around a bit, Bella called out to the others but eventually gave up. This time it went well, and they were able to calmly walk back to the barn and call it a day. The issue was not whether Bella can be separated, or whether my daughter can handle her pony mare attitude, but that my daughter thought it would just be an easy walk down the trail and wasn't prepared to keep Bella in line. We always need to be on our guard and listening to our horses, even the usually quiet ones! It was a good lesson for my daughter (and I think for Bella).


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## Part-Boarder

This is a hard one. After five years with no cross tie issues, I don’t think I would have been on high alert either. But yeah rushing usually ends up with other delays so no time savings there. Thanks for sharing - always good to keep in mind and lots of good tips!


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## SteadyOn

PinkPrancer said:


> Last summer I saw Warwick Schiller live at a horse expo, and what you're describing sounds really similar to his discussion. He used the metaphors of rabbits on a trail, essentially using the rabbits for every little trigger that builds up in a horse's mind. So if a rabbit runs out on the trail and spooks your horse, you might get a little spook at first, but then you move on and keep riding. However, just because YOU have moved on, doesn't mean the horse has fully recovered. So when a second rabbit runs out, the spook might feel the same, but the tension is rising in your horse's brain, until eventually the 10th rabbit runs out and your horse breaks into a full-fledged gallop. In our minds, that feels like an over-reaction to a single rabbit, especially when we've already recovered 9 times before, but to the horse, it's the buildup of all 10 rabbits.


Oh yes, I know that one well!! I love Warwick Schiller, and often share that video, with that analogy. Here it is:







🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🐇🤯


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## Zimalia22

I despise cross ties with a passion. Anything happens, you're lucky she's going back, if she were to go forward, it's up and over. 

If it was me, I would find another place to saddle her, and never use cross ties. Use one lead, tie her, and saddle her.


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## Milton'sMama

This is a great reflection on the experience, and I hope others who aren't as seasoned with horses read it and learn from it. 

I've found that most horses who have had issues in cross-ties can never be 100% trusted in them again. And cross-ties plus girthy has always equaled a sketchy situation in my experience. It's just too much confinement and pressure at once for those horses, and their flight instinct kicks in, then they panic when they can't flee, and you wind up with broken halters and loose horses...which is a whole new frightening situation for horse and human. 

Sometimes we just have to accept that a horse needs a different approach. Maybe one cross-tie comes off when the girth is being done up. Maybe a set of blocker tie-rings would be a good investment. Maybe just straight tying in a safe place is better for this horse. 

Well done, though, realizing all of the "rabbits" that led up to your mare's behavior. She definitely wasn't being "bad" at all. She was trying to survive a situation that she felt was threatening her safety. She can't be blamed for that.


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## stallionsavers

SteadyOn said:


> I wanted to share the experience I had last night of my horse pulling back and breaking her halter "out of nowhere,” and dissect it to show how easily small triggers were stacked -- and equally, how easily I missed them. We all make mistakes and I totally own that I screwed up here -- mostly accidentally, but probably avoidably.
> 
> What happened, the short version: I brought my horse in to tack her up, and she pulled back in the cross ties "out of nowhere," broke her halter, and trotted right out of the barn.
> 
> What happened, the long version:
> -My horse has a history of pulling back in cross ties, but I've been working on it slowly with her, with small steps, patience, and positive reinforcement. She had not pulled back in four or five years, or even given any indication that she might.
> -My horse has a history of girthiness from a previous owner who cinched her too quickly. Again, I've been working on this with her for ages, with patience, positive reinforcement, and changing the order of things so she doesn't have the same negative pattern to anticipate and react to.
> -It was a very hot, sweaty, humid day and was supposed to storm that evening, and I find she's more reactive when it feels like a storm is coming in.
> -There was an oscillating fan down the aisle from her, in shadow, and backlit by the sun in a doorway. She has a history of reacting to high contrast visual stimulus that she can't figure out.
> -I was short on time and didn't give her her usual treats and scratches on greeting her and putting her in the cross ties.
> -The pulling back happened when I started to tighten the girth on a bareback pad. While she was cross tied.
> -I didn't groom her and check in with her before starting to tack up.
> -I was distracted by doing up the girth so I didn't notice her start to react negatively to the fan.
> 
> What I should have done differently:
> -Turned on more lights so the fan wasn't a scary moving shadow. She had walked by it many times, but I didn't think of how it would look from that position.
> -Prioritized my time differently: not been in a rush to just get tacked up and squeeze in my ride.
> -Not taken for granted that she was "good" now with cross tying, and still done my slow routine of giving her treats and rubs and checking in with her and making it a good experience.
> -Been more mindful while putting the pad on and starting on the girth. I would have seen her head and ears go up in reaction to the fan. I would have done something about that trigger before adding the trigger of the girth.
> 
> I gave her a little break and then did try to ride her in the bareback pad after, but she was still too "up" and I felt it would go badly. So we had a nice calm walk instead, and a little free lungeing in the arena, so she recovered quite nicely. But it was definitely a learning experience, and a reminder to be more mindful. Maybe she was _"bad"_ and maybe she wasn't, but horses can only do what their history and the situation tell them to do. I just have to be more aware of the signs in future.


I have found that cross tying is a trap for horses in general and not a good idea unless absolutely necessary. You might just start training her to ground tie. Look on You Tube for the various training methods.
Hope this helps.


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## SteadyOn

stallionsavers said:


> I have found that cross tying is a trap for horses in general and not a good idea unless absolutely necessary. You might just start training her to ground tie. Look on You Tube for the various training methods.
> Hope this helps.


Yeah, I'm not a fan either, for the most part! Luckily my girl does ground tying reasonably well... but she gets distracted by the other horses in their stalls and wants to "make friends" -- which generally results in a lot of creeping forward, and squealing. Still, it's better than pulling back and booking it!!


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## tinyliny

What is interesting to ask is HOW do we get the horse to completely 'over' the first rabbit, before come the next ones. 
How do you know if your horse is not packing around and building up silent tension that will explode with the next tiny stimulus.

You experienced riders can explain how you can tell if your horse has let go of the negative emotions so totally that they don't accumulate. Some folks say they let the horse stand a bit, or stroke it, or talk to it, or make it go faster, or circle a bit , or ?


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## GingerWhinger

tinyliny said:


> What is interesting to ask is HOW do we get the horse to completely 'over' the first rabbit, before come the next ones.
> How do you know if your horse is not packing around and building up silent tension that will explode with the next tiny stimulus.
> 
> You experienced riders can explain how you can tell if your horse has let go of the negative emotions so totally that they don't accumulate. Some folks say they let the horse stand a bit, or stroke it, or talk to it, or make it go faster, or circle a bit , or ?


i find moving the horses feet, getting them calm and focused on something else like leg-yielding to the other side of the trail or small circles gets them to 'release' in their body. you can feel when they are stressed as they tend to start bracing (being 'toey'), spooking back hard, or 'piaffing' in spot. giving them a stroke and calm words helps them relax a bit but dont keep pressure on the reins to frame them, that tells them you want them to do a task. instead let them have their head and just walk for a bit like that on the buckle. you'll know when they are more comfortable as they'll usually give a big snort and sigh. don't take spooking as a lack of training or then being 'naughty' it's just a natural response and it takes a long time of consistent trail riding to ensure that such accumulations (rabbits) don't get so extreme. take a deep breath, relax, uncurl your shoulders, and relax your seat into the saddle making sure to sit on your tailbone and the meat of your butt (this is the 'safety' position). it will get better, you are a good rider, and if you want your horse to let go of negative emotions you have to as well.


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## livelovelaughride

I find it interesting that the trigger stacking explains the incidents /situations where I got bucked off or when my horse exploded (thankfully only a couple of times!). Now, as others have said, I do pay more attention to those scenarios where there is a possibility of accumulated trigger stacking.


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## kxllb1ll

how does all this happen ☠


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## AragoASB

A horse that pulls back needs to be tied to a ring with an old inner tube looped to it. Tie to the inner tube. When pullers hit the end of a lead rope or crosstie restraint they panic because they are flight animals. If the rope or line stretches and gives they stop fighting. But once they beak the line or lines and get away this is a reward and they tend to keep doing it. The Blocker tie ring does this too but it has to be adjusted just right every time. An old inner tube is always adjusted right. Any tire store has tons of old innertubes, usually around back.


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