# Dog killed lamb



## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

I need some advice. My daughter has two dogs at her farm. They both chase (and try to kill ) the cats. I toldher to really get after them, but usually they do it when no one is around. A fee days ago, a baby lamb was born. The dogs showed an intense amount of interest in it. It was in a barn stall so they couldn't get to it. Well, my husband bought a new horse, so they moved the sheep and her lamb to an enclosed pen inside the barn. Evidently somehow one of the dogs got in the pen and killed the lamb. I feel HORRIBLE because it was our fault they got moved. Anyway, can anything be done to change this dog? My dog let the lamb alone when told, and never tried to bother it. The second one of hers left it pretty much alone after numerous scoldings. The dog that killed it is new and just seemed obsessed. I don't think there's anyway to stop it's prey instinct and it probably doesn't belong on a farm, but If I know my daughter, gettinhg rid of the dog is not an option. It's great with the kids and the horses. Any possible suggestions as how to make this dog safe would be appreciated


----------



## Kristyjog (Nov 11, 2013)

I grew up on a sheep ranch my whole life. Our working dogs were never ever left out always kenneled. The only dogs left out were our great Pyrenees. A dog that killed a lamb would be a dead dog. I'm not sure there is anything you can do besides keeping the dog kenneled and when its out watch it like a hawk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Professional training, and never let the dog have unsupervised access to any other animal. The dog has already killed, which means he's going to be harder to train than one who hasn't.


----------



## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

Actually, I AM a professional trainer. Trained search and rescue, show ring and service dogs. I just don't know how this can realistically be done and was hoping one of you people with more experience with farm dogs might have a miracle suggestion


----------



## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Nope, no miracles unfortunately. Only thing is to keep the dog away from any other farm animals.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Now that the dog has killed, the only cure is a bullet and it's not your fault. It was up to your daughter to dog proof the fencing. What stopped her from locking the dogs up? So stop with the guilt trip.


----------



## Chevaux (Jun 27, 2012)

Years ago, one of my dogs decided to go after chickens. I used intense adversion therapy with him and it did work (took its toll on me though as I felt like crap having to do it). It involved immediately keeping him under 24 hour control. When we went out into the yard he was on his leash and of course he immediately went for the chickens and then I immediately went after him (I really layed into him but I knew he had a strong personality and would otherwise blow off any less subtle reproaches). After a couple of times of this he smartened up but I wasn't finished yet. The next phase involved my husband herding the chickens in his direction and then even though he didn't react to them he still got into trouble big time. A couple of times of this and he was trying to get away from me in the opposite direction as soon as he saw the chickens. Next step was in the yard off leash but under supervision (by this time yelling at him only, everytime a chicken moved or clucked, without any physical contact was enough to send him hiding). Final step was he's back in the yard on his own and I'm watching him from the dining room window -- I knew it was a success when one day I watched him down by the barn catch sight of the chickens coming around the corner and he hightailed it back to the house at a gallop.

As a codicil to this, he was good with the chickens after that but decided he'd try his luck with the horses - it did not end well for him as one of the horses (after ample horse warning) kicked out one of his eyes. Only then did he give up all murderous schemes and lived a long, contented life.


----------



## Kheroot (Apr 14, 2014)

I think the dog needs put down if you are unable to control with a kennel.
Sorry for your loss.


----------



## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

Coming from sheep country (the Shropshire - Welsh borders) I do know of one potential 'miracle' but it depends on the age and size of the dog.

If you have access to a grumpy old sod of a ram who weighs a ton more than the dog, then put the dog in with him. Remain to supervise obviously. Get the dog out after he has been beaten up, but before he sustains serious injury.

- harsh, but when the choice is between that and a bullet, most farmers I knew were willing to give the dog a chance.


Oh, one other suggestion. My dog used to have a go at my pigs through an electric fence. One time he lunged at the pig and got zapped by an electric fence on the nose. For ever after that he was convinced that pigs give electric shocks and would never go near one again.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My chessie was as bull-headed as they come and he figured it was his job to go after the horses. He'd been used with dairy cattle prior. There was no way he'd call off so I bo't a shock collar. When I called Come, gave him a chance to respond then called again. If still no response he got a good shock. That got his attention and he responded when next I called Come. He also got a few treats. As long as he wore the collar he came when called and was rewarded. It took a month before the collar could be removed and by then he'd turn on a dime and race back to me. It took just the one shock. It was that or a bullet. Once we'd worked that out he became an incredible dog that took great pride in having a job and became a real asset. I never laid a hand on him to punish him but would fold my arms and look at the sky and snub him. Whatever he'd done wrong, he'd never repeat.


----------



## TexasBlaze (Oct 4, 2010)

I raise sheep. We had some stray dogs we had taken in. They ripped up some of my breeders. They were gone before nightfall. Once a dog tasted blood they will always go after things. And can even go after children. No rescues will take them and they don't stop. Bullet in the head or taken to the vet for putting down is the only way to stop them. Or do you wanna lose more lambs? Or a foal? Or a grandchild?


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You.can stop a dog from chasing/ killing sheep but it sure isn't pretty nor is it done with the positive training. 

Shropshire Rosie is right in that a mean old ram can put a dog in its place but it takes the right ram and depends on the size of the dog. 
The other way is to take the lamb it has killed and tie it around the dog's neck and leave it there until it has rotted. 
Third way is to catch the dog in the act and give it a darn hard thrashing, I do not mean a couple of whacks I mean a _real_ thrashing. 

None of these will necessarily stop a dog once it has killed. 

The fact that the dogs are allowed to wander loose when they had shown interest says that you are not reading them well. Personally the dog would be gone of he was with me.


----------



## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

Sorry I haven't replied before now. I have been sick. Anyway Foxhunter, I agree the dog would be gone if it were mine, but actually it probably wouldn't have killed the lamb if he were mine. I read the dogs very well. The first time my dobe showed interest, she was told to leave it. If she had gone back, she would have received a good smackk with a lunge whip. I did smack her other dog, and he stopped coming around. the y problem is, i' m not there all of the time. My daughter wants to try to change the dog that killed the lamb, but I told her it might be impossible. She is going to try a shock collar on the highest setting, and because there are no other animals at her farm that he might go after, I suggested that she get an old hen destined for the stew pot and start with the hen in a cage. I told her to shock the heck out of him if the dog even looked at the bird, then move up from there to eventually having the hen loose. I don't want people to think I'm mean - I am not. I just believe drastic action has to be taken or the dog will be put down. Thank you for all of the responses, and I will keep you all posted.


----------



## Lopin N Paint (May 30, 2012)

I am another one to suggest the Shock collar. 
Make sure you get one with a "Continuous" setting. They usually with shock for a solid 8 seconds which is generally 6-7 seconds longer than you'll ever need.

I train retrievers for AKC Hunt Tests and also Beagles for gun dogs. Generally there is a LONG list of steps you take to "Collar Condition" a dog. Basically when you start using the collar they have no idea what it means. It is up to the trainer to teach this.

THE EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE: basically what you need.
When dogs run off game (or kill farm animals) the best way to break this is to make that animal a ""bad experience. Every beagle in the world that is any good at running rabbits has, at one point, been "Deer Broke".

We do this by doing the same thing your going to do. They see deer, we crank the collar way up, they chase and we let them have it. One time and most will actually shy away from even the deer track smell. 

No, its not fun... and no its not pretty. They usually cry, barrel roll, and come sulking back to you at mach 5. But it works and it saves live 

One thing I really want to stress is for your daughter NOT buy a cheap pet-smart one. Brands to avoid are: Petsafe. Garmin Sport models. They will never have enough juice to get the job done.

Brands I would look at: 
Tri-Tronics Pro 100, 200, 500 or Tri-Tronics Classic 70 or Field 90
Sport dog 1825 or even the 1225. AVOID the Sportdog 400, 425, 800 or 825.
Dogtra 300m or Dorgtra 1900

If you cannot afford a good one find a store that have a 60 day return policy on electronics and use it then return it.
I hate to suggest that but if you buy cheap you won't get the job done. Trust me. I use electronic collars every day. $$$ makes a HUGE difference.


----------



## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

Thanks! I do have a dogtra collar but i never needed it for my Dobes. Dals on the other hand can be pretty stubborn. Hopefully this will work.


----------



## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

Once a dog kills, it is near impossible to stop it. In my opinion, and animal killing dog has no place on a farm with animals. It would either live in an escape proof pen, which I think cruel, or it would be OFF THE FARM.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

A shock collar is fine and they do work but this dog has actually killed. They are fine of someone is around to press the button but, if it is allowed on its own or with the other dog then it will not work.


----------



## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

If they were mine the dog would sadly have been put down, our collies are working sheep dogs and love lambs and our Jack Russell isn't allowed near animals as you can't trust her though she has never touch a sheep.


----------



## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Two dogs constitute a pack. It is absolute folly to attempt to keep these dogs. Go on youtube and check out children who've been attacked by a dog. If your daughter insists on keeping these dogs, she's the one who needs the shock collar to get her to listen.


----------



## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

Since that incidence, we have set up both the dal that didn't kill the lamb and my Dobe, with the help of a cooperative neighbor. Neither one has shown any interest in either lambs or chickens, even when no one was around and the two were together. Interestingly, that dal has even left the cats alone since then. Believe me, I understand about pack mentality, and so does my daughter. I was actually asked to testify as an expert witness in dog behavior in several murder trials involving dogs, so am not ignorant of dog behavior. Those two dogs do not get into trouble even when running together. Since the incident, the dog that killed the lamb is only let out when it has a shock collar on and is under supervision. So far the dog sticks to my daughter like glue and hasn't done anything to warrant a shock, so we can't correct it yet. My daughter is very well aware of the probability she will have to get rid of that dog, however getting rid of the other dog that has done nothing wrong and has apparently learned to leave stock alone would be a little bit of a hysterical reaction at this point. Believe me, we WILL watch all of the dogs closely for any negative behavior in the future. Neither my daughter nor I want any more stock killed. I do thank all of you for your replies and suggestions, and I will keep you informed of any updates, both good and bad.


----------



## Amba1027 (Jun 26, 2009)

Allison Finch said:


> Once a dog kills, it is near impossible to stop it. In my opinion, and animal killing dog has no place on a farm with animals. It would either live in an escape proof pen, which I think cruel, or it would be OFF THE FARM.


Thank you! I've seen a lot of these threads lately and it seems like everyone thinks the only option is to kill the dog. It is amazing to me that people think to kill it before thinking to re-home it somewhere that isn't a farm. The suggestions to beat the dog or have it beat up by a ram are sickening as well. This dog is clearly not one that can live with farm animals. Find it a non-farm home. I'm sure there are plenty of wonderful people out there who don't have sheep that would love to give the dog a nice home.

OP- find the dog a new home. I have a greyhound and have had a few in the past. I also have cats, so I can only adopt the greyhounds that have tested cat-safe. A lot of greyhounds can't be trusted in homes with cats. Does that mean they need to be put down or beaten until they are afraid of cats? No. That would be insane. They are placed in homes without cats and the owners are made aware that they will probably kill a cat if given the chance. That's it. Simple. Find the dog a home where there aren't things it wants to kill.


----------



## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

Amba- if the dog causes any more problems, my daughter will have to get rid of it. Of course re-homing would be the first option. However, since she was given this dog to be a "farm dog" by its last owner ( he has had several) because of behavior problems, it might not be that easy. The dog can be destructive in the house and is hard to contain. Anyone who has done rescue knows that it is hard to find homes for "perfect" dogs, and ones with problems.... My daughter will try to find a good home, but if she can't, euthanasia would be better in my opinion than being shuffled from home to home and being abused. I do NOT beat dogs or hurt them. I DO know, however, that it might take drastic action to ensure that this dog is not killed. I believe a few hard zaps with a shock collar are justified if it can save this dog's life. I wish we could just talk to the dog and tell him the consequences of his bad behavior instead of punishment, but unfortunately, that isn't possible. The only way to possibly stop the behaviour is to make it so unattractive he won't do it again.


----------

