# Want to talk bits for a minute



## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

So, I have used this type of bit driving my horse for several years. 










Just a basic medium port Kimberwick. We took a few years off driving, but now that we are driving again, he is not happy with the bit. 

About two years ago I switched him, under saddle, to a medium port with a copper roller - which he LOVES.

But now, when I hitch him up, I can feel him workign the bit looking for the roller. He is not doing anything bad, he just wants his copper roller back. 

Do they make Kimberwicks with a copper roller that are not broken mouth pieces? This is the closest I have been able to find. My horse hasn't had a broken mouth piece in his mouth in 12 years.










or if I really want to keep my medium port - which I do, I can get copper, but the mouth piece is broken and no roller. 










Any suggestions? He is really unhappy without the roller, but he has never gone well in any sort of snaffle. - I need to add that I am open to switching to different shanks, like a pelham, etc, but I don't need tons of leverage.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

What about driving him in the bit you ride in? Would that work. As long as you are not showing I would drive in whatever bit your horse likes best.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

Um - that's a good question... that I have no answer to. I don't show and have no intention of ever showing - we do everythign we do just for fun. 

My concern is that his riding bit has fixed shafts so there is no independant action. As Western bits go, it has very short and bent shanks, 4" I think. I always thought that I needed the indepent action for driving - now that you know I ride Western does that change your question?


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Yes, defiantly too much bit for driving, I thought you drove in the Kimblewick. 

Some places to try:http://www.doversaddlery.com/

http://www.statelinetack.com/english-saddles-and-tack/bits/1035/

http://www.theharnessroom.com/

http://www.carriagedrivingessentials.com/index.html

http://www.camptownharness.com/
http://www.smuckersharness.com/

My boy is doing very well in a mullen mouth snaffle, what about that?


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

I am being confusing! Yes, I drive in the kimberwick, and the sides are indepentant. I ride in a short shanked medium port curb bit. 

I will check them out... but let me know if you find something good for driving with rollers, tongue relief, a solid mouth, and indepandant shafts... wow, I want the world!


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I found this: 
View

I would buy in a min. if it were 5 1/2"


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

OK - I checked all your suggestions, and came up blank... sigh.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I wish there was a bit library where you could take out a loaner bit, try it out, buy it if you like it, return it if you did not.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

yadlim said:


> So, I have used this type of bit driving my horse for several years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 i drive tricky in his valconate (rubber) slotted kimblewick thats what we calll them over here it would make him mouth up wet and except it more than a plain steel.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> I wish there was a bit library where you could take out a loaner bit, try it out, buy it if you like it, return it if you did not.


 we use to have one over here but i have not heard of one for a long time.
if you ask may be there is some one with a large selection of bits at home may be thay can help.
have you thought about opening a library your self.
that could be a good idear for you.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> What about driving him in the bit you ride in? Would that work. As long as you are not showing I would drive in whatever bit your horse likes best.


 you can what bit have you got the bits you can drive in are snaffles kimblewicks liverpool bits with straight bars i think a western bit with long shanks would or mite make your horse overbend in harness and the other one is a half moonwilson with 2 rings each side i drive tricky in his valcainte kimblewick slotted like in the picture and i dont use the slots.
i hope this helps


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> Yes, defiantly too much bit for driving, I thought you drove in the Kimblewick.
> 
> Some places to try:http://www.doversaddlery.com/
> 
> ...


 well if he is happy with the snaffle keep him in it.
i have never come a cross a driveing bit were the cheeks are independent.
i can give you a list of bits wilson bradoon jointed 4 rings. wilson half moon 
4 rings.a kimblewick like i drive in. a military elbow a liverpool driveong bit 
i think there is some diferent types of them 2 hole 3 hole slotsmullen half cheek snaffle.
i have a book of bits some were in my own house and a draw full of them at home.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

michaelvanessa said:


> well if he is happy with the snaffle keep him in it.
> i have never come a cross a driveing bit were the cheeks are independent.
> i can give you a list of bits wilson bradoon jointed 4 rings. wilson half moon
> 4 rings.a kimblewick like i drive in. a military elbow a liverpool driveong bit
> ...


 i looked at your harness shops and smuckers has a god selection of bits there i did a little serch for you and thats got a good selection.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

Michaelvanessa you mentioned a Wilson bit
What is the benefit of a Wilson Snaffle Bit? Someone lent me one to drive in and before I use it, I wanted to know what the purpose of the bit. Thanks


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't drive, but OP the one you linked with the middle roller.. are you going to try that one? it looks really nice.

I found

http://www.toklat.com/dyn_prod.php?p=89-25035&k=87332
http://www.toklat.com/dyn_prod.php?p=88-25055&k=87332
http://www.toklat.com/dyn_prod.php?p=89-25425&k=87332

(promise they are all different, LOL!)

Or http://www.angelfire.com/parkersalescompany/kimberwick.html
http://www.123tack.com/myler-kimberwick-with-hooks-comfort-snaffle-with-copper-roller--mb03-.html


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> Michaelvanessa you mentioned a Wilson bit
> What is the benefit of a Wilson Snaffle Bit? Someone lent me one to drive in and before I use it, I wanted to know what the purpose of the bit. Thanks


 the true perpous is i dont know the fundimentles of why it was designed.
the in side rings attach to the cheek pieces and the out side to the reind or the reins can buckle on to the pair of themlike your self i did a bit of experimenting and brought a lot of bits and chose one which was ok for tricky and so i tryed him in a rubber kimblewick and he is happy with it so i drive him in that.the wilsons with doubble rings come in half moon or jointed but years ago thay made a straight bar i have seen pictures of it.
the other thing is how the bit works on the horses mouth straight bars and half moons work on the bars of the mouth the jointed bits and bits with ports work on the toungue and the bars.
ill give you a test if you have a bit lets say a straight bar with a curb chain and if you did the curb chain up behind your knee and pull the bit if it has lets say shanks like a liverpool bit and you apply force infront of you knee would tell you how much you are exerting as your knee would start to hurt,i hope this will help.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

michaelvanessa said:


> ill give you a test if you have a bit lets say a straight bar with a curb chain and if you did the curb chain up behind your knee and pull the bit if it has lets say shanks like a liverpool bit and you apply force infront of you knee would tell you how much you are exerting as your knee would start to hurt,i hope this will help.


Thanks I will try this today.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

yadlim said:


> So, I have used this type of bit driving my horse for several years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 try a rubber(valconate)kimblewick that might help.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the suggestins! It looks like if he really wants his roller back, he is going to have to go to a broken mouth piece. In all honestly, it will probably give him more bend in his movement anyway. He can be stong when I first hitch him up, but settled down to the "old gray mare who ain't what she used to be" - even though he is a gelding - within about 20 minutes. Yes, lunging first would probably shorten how long he is stong, but he is not dangerous, just wants to get out and stretch his legs at a good working trot. His verbal "whoa" if perfect and does not requiring my touching the reins. 

I have a rubber training bit that was loaned to me for starting my filly, I will see how he likes it - but I am betting we will end up wit this one...
http://www.toklat.com/dyn_prod.php?p=88-25055&k=87332

It will do him good to try somethign new. At 14 he can be a bit set in his ways. Over the years we started with a simple D ring snaffle - that he hated and we had a wreck in. Then we switched to bitless where his turn was great, but standing still SUCKED. And that is when I picked up that simple medium port Kimberwick for $5 including bridle and reins at a garage sale and he loved it. He was even briefly used as a lesson horse for kids in it. And he had WHOA no matter what scary thing jumped out at him. 

Shaman at a medieval event in a Dr Cooks bitless bridle.









Well, I no longer use any of the slots, just use it as a D-ring as I dont' need the leverage, not driving - his pasion is to drive. Yes, he is a fine riding horse, but he comes alive when hitched. 

I think it is time to change bits, get his his copper roller that he loves so much, and go to a broken mouth piece. I can afford $50 to see how he likes it. It doesn't look like it will have the nut cracker affect on the roof of his mouth like the basic snaffle - which just freaks him out.

So, I wanted to say THANKS to everyone who brought up the ideas!

OH, and to lessen the confusion, we drive in the medium port Kimberwick, and ride in a medium port curb with roller - Western.

I will post pics and ask for opinions on my whole hitch as soon as I get it all together. My shafts are still a bit too close (and being metal can be seperated). I am not going to worry about repainting, just yet. That can wait!


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## goodhors (Jan 25, 2011)

The most common Driving Bit is a Liverpool. It comes on all kinds of mouthpieces, but the sides are all the same design. You can use it with direct pull, or various severity of curb action, by moving the reins down the slots in the shanks. The sides can be swivel or fixed. If you hunt hard, there are bound to be some Liverpools with rollers on the mouthpieces for sale. These are NOT the Western type cricket rollers, up inside the port.

Driving Essentials, Inc.- Bits

These folks sell a BIG selection of Driving bits, which are not cheap. The Liverpool sides with roller mouths are on this page:

Driving Essentials, Inc.- Roller Mouth Liverpool Bits

And amazingly enough, they do have a cricket type roller on one bit! I had not seen that one before. *Coscoquero 3-Slot Liverpool*

Otherwise I know of no bits with rollers on them, suitable for what you want. I am sure you don't want any kind of broken mouthpiece for the horse. I don't have any horses that "like" the broken mouthpieces in curb bits for riding or driving. If you watch the person pulling the reins, the bits FOLD, with the sides going into a nutcracker action on the lower jaw. NASTY action for a bit. Center of broken mouthpiece often pokes horse in the upper palate as well.

Something to consider in getting away from rollers, is horse spending less time playing with his bit, more attentive to his job at hand. The horses I see with rollers spend a LOT of time with tongue flicking in and out of their mouth. Often takes more than one signal from stand to motion, because they are inattentive. Some have bitten their tongues during a signal to MOVE it! And the noisy crickets can drive you to drink!! I hated lining up beside the Spade
Bit horses spinning the cricket, nasty high pitched noises ALL the time.

As I said, the nice Driving bits will cost you, but they are usually able to be resold for almost what you pay for them. Driving is not a cheap sport. The ad for the Butterfly bits is probably not going to be the bit your horse wants either. Pretty bits, but again with broken mouthpieces for that folding action when reins are used.


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

goodhors said:


> The most common Driving Bit is a Liverpool. It comes on all kinds of mouthpieces, but the sides are all the same design. You can use it with direct pull, or various severity of curb action, by moving the reins down the slots in the shanks. The sides can be swivel or fixed. If you hunt hard, there are bound to be some Liverpools with rollers on the mouthpieces for sale. These are NOT the Western type cricket rollers, up inside the port.
> 
> Driving Essentials, Inc.- Bits
> 
> ...


Would also like to add to Goodhors, as she has a lot of good information, that a driving bit and a western riding bit are two different pieces of equipment. There are a few bits you can ride and/or drive in, but many others you cannot. The way you hold your reins vs your driving lines is different, the signals are different, etc..

Also, no matter how "seasoned" your driving horse is, driving with no blinders at all is dangerous!! A horse is a fight or flight animal, you never know what may set them off and even the most steady eddy has their moments. The blinders are there for a purpose, to keep that driving animals mind on what it is doing and not be distracted by everything around them. I would also strongly caution driving in a Dr. Cook's bitless bridle, again, a dangerous thing to do.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

yadlim said:


> Shaman at a medieval event in a Dr Cooks bitless bridle.


Wow, you do have a very good boy there!!


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

*Nothing nice to say - then don't say it*



GreySorrel said:


> Would also like to add to Goodhors, as she has a lot of good information, that a driving bit and a western riding bit are two different pieces of equipment. There are a few bits you can ride and/or drive in, but many others you cannot. The way you hold your reins vs your driving lines is different, the signals are different, etc..
> 
> Also, no matter how "seasoned" your driving horse is, driving with no blinders at all is dangerous!! A horse is a fight or flight animal, you never know what may set them off and even the most steady eddy has their moments. The blinders are there for a purpose, to keep that driving animals mind on what it is doing and not be distracted by everything around them. I would also strongly caution driving in a Dr. Cook's bitless bridle, again, a dangerous thing to do.


I have found that your posts do not actually carry any information, just condensation - which you call being blunt. 

I have no doubt that you will find something wrong with every portion of everything I do. In this case it is no bit, and no blinders. - gosh, you missed no overcheck!

You also missed the heavy full armour combat going on in the background where men dressed in full steet armour where fightign at full contact with hardened unsharpened swords - which sounds a bit like constant thunder.

Or how about the costume on both horse and rider, not to mention the riders that are just out of sight of the picture.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> yadlim said:
> 
> 
> > Shaman at a medieval event in a Dr Cooks bitless bridle.
> ...


He was four in this pic - two yeas under harness. After we got done with our warm up, then I had to drive with one hand while using a wooden sword to knock the heads off the tops of the poles as we wove between the poles. 

Unfortunatly, we had a flat tire so did not get to do any of the lancing work - which again required we weave between the poles, but this time holding a 12 foot lance to spear two inch rings off cross bars held on with velcro.

Now the javalin toss we won at this event - My horse could trot a strait line so much easier than the riden horses could!

I also have to note that in between runs, we woudl unhitch, and saddle him so my daughter coudl compete under saddle - then it was quick back into harness for my turn!


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

goodhors said:


> The most common Driving Bit is a Liverpool. It comes on all kinds of mouthpieces, but the sides are all the same design. You can use it with direct pull, or various severity of curb action, by moving the reins down the slots in the shanks. The sides can be swivel or fixed. If you hunt hard, there are bound to be some Liverpools with rollers on the mouthpieces for sale. These are NOT the Western type cricket rollers, up inside the port.
> 
> Driving Essentials, Inc.- Bits
> 
> ...


I am sure we are just going to have to do some trial and error. I HATE broken mouth pieces - as does my horse. I have the advantage that what I do does not take 100% of my horse's attention 100% of the time. When we have work to do, like in the medieval games or working on some specific thing in the arena - yeah, I have 100% of his attention. But if I am out for a four hour meander down easy roads, riding or driving, we both can relax a bit - which is when he likes to play with his roller. I also like the sound, because with this horse, I know that means he is relaxed and having fun.

Oh - and I don't accept having to give a command more than once - EVER under any circumstances. I have seen horse who focus down on the rollers like a kid with a nucky, but I would not allow my horse to do that over my dead decaying body! LOL.

Worse comes to worse, he will just have to cope with his regular Kimberwick, medium port - which he has been using for the last ten years (less the last four or five years when I didn't have a cart). He drives fine in it, just not as happy as he could be.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

OK - I have to say this...I know many many people will not like it - but I drive WITHOUT blinders. As I "fight" with my horse in medieval games where he has to work out exact distances between the "enemy" and where I am sittting in the cart, he has to be able to look back to see exactly where things are - otherwise if he is off by just a couple inches, I miss the point.

For competition drivng, and other things, I am sure that blinders have thier place. Just not on my horse and not what I do with him. No amount of people throwing TROLL fits about how unsafe that is will change that. Let's face facts, you probably think that when I hold my reins in one hand and pick up a 12 foot wood lance with a six inch steel tip also think is dangerous - yet I get cheered every time I enter the arena. 

Have I driven horses who work better in blinders? Heck yes, and we drove with blinders. I happen to know a Mustang who is just starting to be ground driven who will be used only in blinders - or anyone in the cart will no doubt die! So, like any piece of tack, it needs to be used porperly, in the correct situations, and by people who properly know how to use it.


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

yadlim said:


> I have found that your posts do not actually carry any information, just condensation - which you call being blunt.
> 
> I have no doubt that you will find something wrong with every portion of everything I do. In this case it is no bit, and no blinders. - gosh, you missed no overcheck!
> 
> ...


I say what I say because there are people on this list who are new to driving who, if they were to follow you and do what your doing, would seriously hurt themselves and/or their horse. Driving is one of the most dangerous sports out there and if you see what I am saying as rude, that is on you. We are here to teach the new people getting into driving to do so safely and efficiently and to not harm themselves and or their horse.

The over check, I have one on all my harnesses and use it, but it is not as tight as others say it should be. I know what they are for. 

So your at an SCA event or a mid evil event, your point? I am sorry you feel your being scolded but I have been driving a lot longer than you and with each post, your cutting corners, you keep insinuating you have little to no money, yet to drive it takes good solid equipment. ALL my harness and my driving vehicles are used, but we restored each one and they are gone over before and after each drive. Our horses have stood patiently with a crowd around them at Civil War reenactments while a cannon shooting off half rounds, children running up and grabbing our drafts tails, poking them in the nose, etc. 

Your last photo, your horse does not in fact look like he is having fun, he looks apprehensive and not at all at ease and laid back, look at his body and his ears and how he is going. Any good horseman who can read a horse can see this. There is NO PLACE for sloppy or ignorance in driving. I have seen wrecks that ruin a good solid driving horse with a willing attitude and a good mind because the driver is ignorant in what they are doing and don't want to listen or be told they are doing it wrong. If you want pleasing and accolades, then please, go to a place where people don't do this on a daily basis.

I have to carry a huge sum of insurance when I go out in the public and train my horses to ensure they don't hurt anyone. When I have people on our wagon's or we participate in events, which are often because we are known for being safety conscious, I take what I do seriously. Driving takes experience and safe practices. To go out in public without all those safety practices in place your not only putting yourself and your animal in danger but the general public. I don't do parades normally nor do I do certain events if I feel that it puts my team or myself in danger, that is being a good teamster and driver. Something some people just either don't grasp or don't care to see or just don't want to see it.


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## MakeYourMark (Feb 10, 2012)

You could have one custom made, if it really meant a lot to you.  I think that that sort of thing is pricey, though.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

yadlim said:


> He was four in this pic - two yeas under harness. After we got done with our warm up, then I had to drive with one hand while using a wooden sword to knock the heads off the tops of the poles as we wove between the poles.
> 
> Unfortunatly, we had a flat tire so did not get to do any of the lancing work - which again required we weave between the poles, but this time holding a 12 foot lance to spear two inch rings off cross bars held on with velcro.
> 
> ...


That is one versatile horse!! I *do not* think he looks unhappy in harness; I do think he looks aware of his surroundings.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I did look up mylar bits and they have a non broken roller Kimblewick bit. Do not have a clue of the price, but it would be worth it if it made your boy happy. You could ride western in it too.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

Taffy Clayton said:


> That is one versatile horse!! I *do not* think he looks unhappy in harness; I do think he looks aware of his surroundings.


Yeah - Shaman loves to drive. The BO noted a couple weeks ago that when I am getting ready to saddle him, Shaman will stand ground tied without any fussing for about 15 to 20 minutes - total grooming and saddleing time. 

The first time in the new cart, he stood for about 90 minutes while we fussed to make sure that everything was just right. Not one hoof moved or shifted the whole time. Once hitched - he had his animated Saddlebred trot - even though we only drove for about 20 minutes. To get that same trot under saddle, he has to be told to do it and I am the only person who can get it. 

At the medieval events, oh yeah, he is watching everywhere. As a Saddlebred, he is always high headed unless there is something wrong with him physically.

He is such a joy to drive.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

yadlim said:


> At the medieval events, oh yeah, he is watching everywhere. As a Saddlebred, he is always high headed unless there is something wrong with him physically.
> 
> He is such a joy to drive.


A spotted Saddlebread, I love him.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I got so excited when i saw this bit, I think it is exactly what you want. Unfortunatly it has sold but they are out there.

http://www.horseforum.com/tack-equipment-classifieds/17-5-wide-tree-st-lourdes-122240/


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

*Yes!!!!*



Taffy Clayton said:


> I got so excited when i saw this bit, I think it is exactly what you want. Unfortunatly it has sold but they are out there.
> 
> http://www.horseforum.com/tack-equipment-classifieds/17-5-wide-tree-st-lourdes-122240/


That is EXACTLY what I am looking for! It means that they are out there! Now I just have to find one! But knowing that what I am looking for exists is half the battle!

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! 

(Doing the happy dance!!!)


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

after looking at a few of your pictures I would work on getting the horse round and supple. This will help with your driving and riding and I bet then bits won't be such an issue. Looks like he needs some basics and learning some collection and softness will make a big difference in how he responds and relaxes.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

*What does this have to do with anything?*



churumbeque said:


> after looking at a few of your pictures I would work on getting the horse round and supple. This will help with your driving and riding and I bet then bits won't be such an issue. Looks like he needs some basics and learning some collection and softness will make a big difference in how he responds and relaxes.


I am going to assume you are trying to help and that it that way!

Yes, my horse is VERY high headed. The only driving pics you have seen have been from 10 years ago and over 500 miles of drivng ago - so they do NOT represent his current state of driving training. If my issue with graysorral can be worked out (hopefully friendly) I will post pics as I plan to hitch this weekend. I will be actively asking for opinions on those!

I did post one of my riding - and he was ****ED at the time. He absulute HATES ponying other horses and it shows in every inch of his being! It was just one only pic I coudl find that actually showed his riding bit. 

I do think that Shaman needs to supple up and get more rounded. We worked out that some of our issues with rounding him was a bad fitting saddle. With his new saddlle, his riding is improving greatly as he feels free to get his butt under him and be able to move freely. 

After four (five?) years out of harness, we are going to need to do a lot of work to soften him and get him working in proper frame in the shafts. So far, being hitched once since his break, we have been focusing excusuively on being relaxed, turns, and whoa. 

Any suggestions on getting his properly rounded and supple in harness? I would love to hear them!


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## GreySorrel (Mar 5, 2012)

Yadlim, I hold no animosity toward you at all. I hope you work out all your doing with your horse and you do so safely and in the proper manner. 

My QH gelding has arthritic changes and we have him massaged monthly. I take his favorite treat and standing a little behind his shoulder ask him to bend his neck toward me, 2 to 3 times each side, if he takes his time that is fine. I will take his legs and bend them for him, he will stretch it straight out in front of him, with me holding his hoof with my hands cupped behind his hoof bulbs, we don't raise it high but enough to allow some stretching, as if you were doing it with your own leg. 

Can you ground drive your horse using long lines and walk behind him, go back to basics and at a walk, start there and ask for bending, turning, backing. While my team has a lot of time under their harness, when I begin working them at the start of each year, I ground drive them. I have a gravel road and when I know everyone is at work we go out, I as them to turn, to stand, to do half turns, backing as one. I get exercise, which I need, and they get out and we have a relaxing walk, refreshing on everything they would do on the fore cart. 

Would this help you with making your horse more supple? Hope it helps.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

yadlim said:


> I am going to assume you are trying to help and that it that way!
> 
> Yes, my horse is VERY high headed. The only driving pics you have seen have been from 10 years ago and over 500 miles of drivng ago - so they do NOT represent his current state of driving training. If my issue with graysorral can be worked out (hopefully friendly) I will post pics as I plan to hitch this weekend. I will be actively asking for opinions on those!
> 
> ...


Too much to explain over the internet but I would suggest auditing some classical horsemanship type clinics. I have been to a few clinics and the basic principles are the same and auditing is much less expensive that attending with a horse. It is alot of information to take in but after you attend a few they make more sense and it is easier to understand
I have been working on longlining and getting my horse to step under herself with half halts. I will add that most people do not know what a proper half halt is and do not do them correctly and I learned about it watching Muffy Seatons dvd bending the driving horse and others have a different technique than hers. I also do lots of ground work to push my horse forward to extend her stride and not break gait.


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

churumbeque said:


> Too much to explain over the internet but I would suggest auditing some classical horsemanship type clinics. I have been to a few clinics and the basic principles are the same and auditing is much less expensive that attending with a horse. It is alot of information to take in but after you attend a few they make more sense and it is easier to understand
> I have been working on longlining and getting my horse to step under herself with half halts. I will add that most people do not know what a proper half halt is and do not do them correctly and I learned about it watching Muffy Seatons dvd bending the driving horse and others have a different technique than hers. I also do lots of ground work to push my horse forward to extend her stride and not break gait.


That's kewl! Being a Western trail rider, I have heard the term half-halt, but have no clue what it means.  We will continue to slowly move forward and work on how I know how to round - though I really havn't asked him of it in several years. It will be fun!

Thanks


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## yadlim (Feb 2, 2012)

*Thank you for the post - this was great!*

*I take his favorite treat and standing a little behind his shoulder ask him to bend his neck toward me, 2 to 3 times each side, if he takes his time that is fine.* 

This I do all the time, both on the ground and in saddle - to keep his front end flexable. 

*I will take his legs and bend them for him, he will stretch it straight out in front of him, with me holding his hoof with my hands cupped behind his hoof bulbs, we don't raise it high but enough to allow some stretching, as if you were doing it with your own leg.* 

I actually do this to, but not for the same reason. Now that I think about it, it is a great stretch for the horse. We use it to make sure the girth is settled correctly without any pinched hair before we ride. I will have to make sure to add it to our hitching regime.

*Can you ground drive your horse using long lines and walk behind him, go back to basics and at a walk, start there and ask for bending, turning, backing.* 

Actually, this is just about ALL we have been doing for the last two months. The only problem here is that he is so much faster than I am, that we do a lot of serpentines back and forth down the arena. I walk straight down the arena while he trots first to one side wall, makes the turn without breaking gait, then off towards the other side. 

What I don't get doing this, is any sort of collection. We always start out with his Saddlebred fancy trot which is very strong in my hands, but once he calms down (about 15 minutes) he gives me a nice easy jog and pretty smooth (though no where near perfectly smooth) turns. At any time I can say "WHOA" and he stops dead.

*While my team has a lot of time under their harness, when I begin working them at the start of each year, I ground drive them. I have a gravel road and when I know everyone is at work we go out, I as them to turn, to stand, to do half turns, backing as one. I get exercise, which I need, and they get out and we have a relaxing walk, refreshing on everything they would do on the fore cart.* 

How do you do half turns? I am not driving a team and I am (at least sitting at a chair in front of the computer) having trouble seeing how to do a half turn with a single. 

We have been concentratingn on smoothness. No shape bends - he has been ridden so much lately he has fortten that the cart is goign to take longer to turn. "WHOA" is a constant that I don't think it is possible to work too much on. We also work on standing for long periods of time - just in case. 

I have also added an overcheck to his harness - actually his new harness came with one and I have been using it. The person who taught me to drive thought overchecks were the devil - but I found that with Shaman's natural headset, we almost never engage it.

*Would this help you with making your horse more supple? Hope it helps. *

Please please tell me more about the half turns - it might just be that I know it by a different name, but I woudl like to learn! 

Thanks for the help!!! I will try to get pics this weekend and ask for your opinion!


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## i love my baby chance (Aug 13, 2012)

i'm currently trying to pick a bit that i can drive my horse and ride him with and my friend bought me a two slot liverpool driving bit and it fits my horse perfectly but i'm afraid i'll hurt him if it's not meant to be used as a riding bit


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

The liverpool bit will be fine to ride in, although it might look a bit unusual.
Also if you don't use the shanks on the bit they might get caught on things while riding, expecially trail riding.
I would suggest getting a different bit for riding because, don't you have a different bridle? I would think it would be a major pain to switch bits all the time.
This place has some good, reasonably priced driving and riding bits.


www.[B]smuckersharness.com[/B]


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*horses bit*



yadlim said:


> So, I have used this type of bit driving my horse for several years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 if he is happy with his bit with a roler keep him in it and he will be happy in his work


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