# Spurs?



## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

Several years ago, before I got my horse, I was given a pair of spurs (mainly to decorate my bookshelf). Now that I have a horse, I'm wondering what are the pros and cons of using spurs when riding? Should I or shouldn't I?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Why do you think you need them?

I've been riding for 32 years and have never worn spurs. 

Unless your horse is dead-sided and you need spurs to keep him going, or you're planning on showing in the upper levels that require spurs as part of your turnout, I can't see any good reason for you to use them.

Unless you've been trained to use them _properly_, they can be turned into instruments of torture for the horse.

They're rarely necessary, and can be cruel if not used correctly.


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

He has problems getting-up. There's nothing I can do (besides pulling his head to the side) to get him to move when I'm on him.

Could you define "dead-sided" please? Thanks. =)


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Dead-sided means he doesn't respond to your leg cues to move forward.

How long have you been riding, and do you have an instructor?

You should NEVER wear spurs unless you've been properly trained in their use.

Slashing at him with spurs to make him go is a very bad and cruel idea, especially if you have no clue how to use them.

Like whips and crops, spurs are supposed to be _aids, _not torture devices that get a horse going in order to get away from the pain.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Leave them on your bookshelf. Spurs are for advanced riders needing to give specific cues to horses. I've never had to use them as I don't do any advanced reining or the like.....I have four pairs of spurs that sit on my bookshelf for decoration right now. Never have used them. Spurs are _not_ for most riders to get a reluctant horse to move, nor are they for making a horse go faster. A reluctant-to-move horse must be retrained using natural aids and training techniques. I have a gelding who's buddy-bound, and I never considered using spurs to get him to go away from his mare, nor a crop/quirt, because then he will rely on those aids being there and won't even consider moving if they're not there. Spurs, crops, quirts, martingales, tie-downs, harsh bits, they're all mechanical aids that impede upon the process of the trust- and compliance- system with you and your horse. ;-)


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

Okay. He's dead-sided. What should I do to train him to step-up without using the spurs or a crop?


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Equiniphile, I don't agree with you that a horse will get to 'rely' on an aid.

I carried a whip for years, not because I needed it every time, but occasionally my Arabian decided he was a mule and knew better than I did.

Eventually, I didn't need to use it even occasionally on him and quit carrying it all together. He hardly 'relied' on the whip, and certainly didn't miss it when it was gone.

Anything used _correctly_ is neither cruel nor inhumane. However, if you haven't been trained to properly use a particular piece of equipment, it's best to leave it home.

Tyler, you didn't answer my questions. How long have you been riding, and do you have an instructor? If you've never been trained to ride correctly, that could be a major issue in why you can't get your horse to go forward. He simply may not understand the cues you're giving him.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

Used conservatively, spurs are good for iron-sided or lazy horses. But if you use them excessively, the horse will become dead to your leg and then you'll be up a crick. I use plain old Prince of Wales spurs sometimes on my mom's horse because he can be super lazy. It depends on the kind of spur and the knowledge of the rider.


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

Sorry. I realized that a couple minutes after I posted... 

I've been riding off and on for nine years. I had an instructor my first year of riding (with an angel of a horse – not at all like mine), but my family moved north a year later and I haven't had an instructor since.

The former owner of my horse has the same problems I do, and he had him since he was green broke (which could also be part of the problem – that he was broke and not trained).



Speed Racer said:


> You should NEVER wear spurs unless you've been properly trained in their use.





Jessabel said:


> It depends on the kind of spur and the knowledge of the rider.


I've never had any training with spurs. I'm thinking I'll steer clear of them.


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Spurs are for the 'subtleties' of 'advanced' work. They are NOT to make a horse go forward or sideways. I repeat, spurs are NOT for dead-sided horses. :wink:

Since your horse is dead-sided, you're going to have to use 'something' to reinforce the leg aid and retrain him. This 'something' should be a dressage whip...yes, dressage whip even if you ride western...because of it's length.

Personally, I would reteach the horse 'forward' on the ground first, but for all those who frown upon such a practice and just want to get on and ride:

Make sure you know prior what the leg aid/s are for what you're asking. Apply the leg aid in a normal fashion...release. If the horse does not respond, you will apply the leg aid again, in a 'firmer' fashion...release. 

Note here: It is the RELEASE that tells the horse to move, NOT the application of the aid. It was by the very fashion of constantly pressing and never releasing that got the horse into this situation in the first place.

If the horse does not respond, then you will apply the leg aid a third time, in the 'firmest' fashion and give a good tap of the whip directly behind your leg. I say 'tap', but it might be a 'smack'. That's on you to decide how much reinforcement you need.

And then off you go. Every time the horse starts to suck back behind the leg, you will reapply the correct leg aid and back it up with the needed amount of whip aid, until such time as the horse responds consistently to the leg.

The horse MUST be ridden forward during this retraining. Pulling or hanging on the reins is going to be counter productive. Bumping the horse constantly with an unsteady leg is going to be counter productive. Any sort of inconsistency with the aids is going to be counter productive.

It should take about 5 minutes to fix the horse for that first ride, and then only a few more rides after that to see significant improvement. Within a few weeks you should find yourself only needing to reinforce the leg on the rare occasion and you should also find the horse is more and more responsive to less and less leg aid.


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

Guilty as charged...  It's very likely that that's what I'm doing wrong. Thanks!


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## TheRoughrider21 (Aug 25, 2009)

I've been riding horses for a long time and I ride many horses but I have rarely ever wear spurs. Even if people tell me, "that horse needs to be ridden with spurs", I usually won't. I wear spurs in competition and with one horse in particular that has been riding in spurs since he was first trained and he won't respond to normal leg pressure(which I hate) nut I only use a ball spur. I don't feel comfortable with any spur but I feel at lil safer when I have a ball instead of a rowel.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

equiniphile said:


> A reluctant-to-move horse must be retrained using natural aids and training techniques.


Care to expand on that comment?


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I use spurs on all my horses and normally have them on with in a few rides on a green horse. They are an extension of my leg. However if you do not know how and when to use them and have very good leg control you should not use them until you do. Non of my horses are trained to move forward off the spurs/leg. The leg/spur is to control movement of every part of the horses body including the head.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Speed Racer said:


> Equiniphile, I don't agree with you that a horse will get to 'rely' on an aid.
> 
> I carried a whip for years, not because I needed it every time, but occasionally my Arabian decided he was a mule and knew better than I did.
> 
> ...


I suppose it depends on the horse. With my Paso gelding, he would take advantage of a crop or spurs not being there after being drilled with them. With my stallion, if I took away the stallion lead, he would be a pain in the butt on the end of the lead rope. With my Paint Clydesdale gelding or my mare, however, they would not take advantage of an artificial aid not being there.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

mls said:


> Care to expand on that comment?


Sure. Instead of hashing a horse by slamming him in the sides with spurs, which is what usually happens when an inexperienced rider puts spurs on, let the horse learn to rely on and trust you. With continued training in this area by teaching your horse to trust you and your decisions, he will learn to advance and not balk because he trusts your decisions. By using your hands, legs, and seat to communicate a positive attitude about "forward" your horse will come to realize that stalling is pointless and "forward" is more enjoyable and less irritating, because your forward aids will have ceased when he listens to them.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Agree 100% with Mercedes. Spurs are for the refinement of leg aids, NOT for creating forward. My horse was super lazy and obese when I got him - I re-trained him to move off the lightest leg pressure first, and now I wear spurs when showing to refine my leg aids for the fast turns and specific changes we do. I can do everything without spurs, just not as neat and refined :]


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

equiniphile said:


> Sure. Instead of hashing a horse by slamming him in the sides with spurs, which is what usually happens when an inexperienced rider puts spurs on, let the horse learn to rely on and trust you. With continued training in this area by teaching your horse to trust you and your decisions, he will learn to advance and not balk because he trusts your decisions. By using your hands, legs, and seat to communicate a positive attitude about "forward" your horse will come to realize that stalling is pointless and "forward" is more enjoyable and less irritating, because your forward aids will have ceased when he listens to them.


The problem with this is that spurs have nothing to do with forward. I agree that riders who do not know how to use spurs and have poor leg should not use them. However spurs serve a purpose that can not be achieved with just your heal. With spurs you can use the leas amount of leg/cue to achieve you desired out come. Spurs when used properly do not make a dead sided horse they actually do the opposite. They make a horse with lighter sides and more responsive.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

nrhareiner said:


> *The problem with this is that spurs have nothing to do with forward*. I agree that riders who do not know how to use spurs and have poor leg should not use them. However spurs serve a purpose that can not be achieved with just your heal. With spurs you can use the leas amount of leg/cue to achieve you desired out come. Spurs when used properly do not make a dead sided horse they actually do the opposite. *They make a horse with lighter sides and more responsive*.


What about the horses that are trained to just spurs as a means of going forward and are dead still when you use leg commands? This doesn't come across to me as more responcive, IMO.....I agree 100% that spurs have nothing to do with forward. They are an extention of your leg, as you mentioned before, and should be treated as such. I've always thought of spurs as tools used to refine riding aids and give more detailed cues.

Spurs are not crutches, as many riders use them as. Riders who don't have sufficient leg strength or sufficient ability to ask for a forward motion without spurs, so they strap spurs to their feet, and oh, look how much more the horse responds....


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> What about the horses that are trained to just spurs as a means of going forward and are dead still when you use leg commands?


They are trained incorrectly. Simple as that


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

^ lol I suppose I have to agree with that. But many horses trained to go forward at the feel of spurs become dead to just a leg squeeze


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## TheRoughrider21 (Aug 25, 2009)

To all those who say that spurs are used to go forward, there's a thing called spur stop. Thats when the spurs aren't used to go faster or move forward but, if I understand correctly, to slow down and stop. A lot of the horses at our barn and trained that at the lightest touch of the spur, their head goes down almost immediatly.


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

TheRoughrider21 said:


> To all those who say that spurs are used to go forward, there's a thing called spur stop. Thats when the spurs aren't used to go faster or move forward but, if I understand correctly, to slow down and stop. A lot of the horses at our barn and trained that at the lightest touch of the spur, their head goes down almost immediatly.


I do not think too many where saying that spurs where used to go forward. As for the head dropping when you squeeze the horse. That is what all mine do. Makes for a nice trick when you have someone ask a yes or no question.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

> ^ lol I suppose I have to agree with that. But many horses *trained to go forward at the feel of spurs* become dead to just a leg squeeze


Again, this is the key. Spurs are NOT meantt o ask for forward, and if that is what they are being used for, they are being used wrong and the training is incorrect. So yes, a lot of horses trained to go forward off spurs become dead to the leg - Because the training was incorrect from the start.

Properly used, spurs actually *sensitize *the horse to the leg - When I have mine on, I hardly have to twitch a calf muscle to get a walk-canter depart. I just have to tighten up one side of my thigh & butt to get a flying change. 

To do those things without the spurs I need louder leg aids that look messier and aren't as 'refined' - Which is fine if thats all you want/need! I only wear my spurs when i'm showing, I trail ride and do PC most of the time without them. But there are situations where people want/need that refinement and level of sensitivity.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Just going to add something. My horse, who does pretty well in competitions if I do say so my self, and is pretty well trained, again - own opinion, is a very good teacher.
He is a sensitive little ******. As soon as I clamp my legs on he stops. He hates being told what to do, where and how to do it, every stride. So I take my legs off, ask for something briefly, and take them right back off and we have a splendid time.
I would not call the horse "dead-sided" because when I put my leg on he doesn't go. I would call him sensitive in that I need to ask correctly before he's going to go to the moon and back for me. And he does, the more I take my leg off and let him breath.

Oh and I wear spurs, big honkin' ones too. Yet my horse doesn't go forward from them, hmmm.


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

Mercedes said:


> Spurs are for the 'subtleties' of 'advanced' work. They are NOT to make a horse go forward or sideways. I repeat, spurs are NOT for dead-sided horses. :wink:
> 
> Since your horse is dead-sided, you're going to have to use 'something' to reinforce the leg aid and retrain him. This 'something' should be a dressage whip...yes, dressage whip even if you ride western...because of it's length.
> 
> ...


I finally got out and did a little work with Oakey, but I had some problems. I did just what you said to do with the leg aids (but I couldn't quite figure out what to do with the whip). He'd only go into a walk about 35% of the times I asked him too. What might I have been doing wrong? How specifically do I use the whip? Does it matter whether I'm bareback or in the saddle?


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Tyler said:


> I finally got out and did a little work with Oakey, but I had some problems. I did just what you said to do with the leg aids (but I couldn't quite figure out what to do with the whip). He'd only go into a walk about 35% of the times I asked him too. What might I have been doing wrong? How specifically do I use the whip? Does it matter whether I'm bareback or in the saddle?


You use the whip to reinforce the leg aid that's being ignored. You use it as hard as you need to to get him to respond to the leg aid. Note: its use may surprise him and he may pop forward...you'll want to go with that and not haul back on him.

So ask him to move with the leg aid...release. If he doesn't respond tell him more loudly with the leg aid...release. If he still hasn't responded, demand he responds with the loudest leg aid and use the whip at the same time to tell him in uncertain terms that he is to move his butt right this second.

Rinse and repeat. 

It should take no more than 3/4 times for him to realize you mean business. If I got on him it would only take me once. :wink: But he and I don't have a 'history' or a relationship, so I would get to start fresh with him. You've got to work through old relationship habits so it's going to take you a few more tries.

I actually prefer to use the whip on the shoulder for forward and behind my leg for lateral work. For you, I think you should probably just use it behind your leg at this stage....not on his flank, but directly behind your leg.


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

Okay. Now I follow you. Thanks! =)


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

You solved my *BIGGEST* horse related problem! A million thank you's!!!

I was able to ride him all over the place, and only had to use the whip twice before he got the message.  Thanks again for helping me out!


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## Mercedes (Jun 29, 2009)

Tyler said:


> You solved my *BIGGEST* horse related problem! A million thank you's!!!
> 
> I was able to ride him all over the place, and only had to use the whip twice before he got the message.  Thanks again for helping me out!


WOOHOO!!!!!!!!

NOW! Don't let yourselves fall back into the habit. Keep refining it so that you can just think 'go forward' and he'll do it. From now on you may only have to touch him with it to remind him.


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## Tyler (Feb 10, 2010)

Okay. Will do! =)

This is sooo awesome! After 3 years of frustration (which was because I didn't know what _I_ was doing, not the other way around) I can finally successfully ride him! =D


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I would onyl wear them if the horse needs a little extra encouragement. You said he was dead-sided, so yes I would consider using them. But seriously, use them properly. Don't be one of those idiots who tears up their horses sides because they _jab _the spurrs instead of _rolling _the spurs.

I've onyl had to use spurs on my Appendix mare, Annie. And boy, as soon as I did she was all "Yes, mom" and "Whatever you say, mom."


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## Tasia (Aug 17, 2009)

Did you know that every muscle is used when a horse moves? I need to be able to control every muscle. I use spurs as I don't like banging my horse on the sides when trying to manuever him. All it takes is a jingle of the spurs and were all good. Though my ex trainer beat my horse with his spurs(blood and all) it ****ed me off. So I have to be careful not to use them harshly.
tasia


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

^ My horse was 'given what for' with spurs before i got him as well - I;ve talked to the guy who did it and I shudder to think about it.

It took probably six months for him to relax and trust that I wasn't going to flog him with them.


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## horselover1428 (Apr 12, 2010)

In my opinion you do not to be professionally trained to use spurs. My horse was trained with spurs and on his off days I use them. I ride with spurs that are rounded and way duller than a fork. There is no way my leg has enough power to drive it is his side to cause any discomfort. There is nothing wrong with spurs. Just be sure that if you use them you introduce them to your horse if he has never had any on him and barely touch him with them.


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