# Head tossing wearing halter & lead rope



## dancersmom (Sep 9, 2014)

Doc has been tossing his head around and into me lately when he is standing and only wearing a halter & lead rope. It's relatively new behavior and I am pretty sure this is just misbehavior on his part but I am not sure how to correct him. Any suggestions? My vet is coming Friday to do a recheck/follow up on his laminitis diagnosis from back in May. I am sure he will be throwing his head around. Heaven forbid the stinker might have to stand still


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

All of ours do the same. I've caught Trigger being clever and trying to hook the back of his headstall under his lead rope when tied up to the post - he's trying to use the taut lead rope to scrape the halter off.

He tries to get his headstall off when we're taking a break on a ride by scraping the nose band on his leg. 

He gets a savage beating from me every time.


















Not really... Just a scolding and gets an appropriate tug on the lead rope or the reins to remind him who's in charge - and it ain't him.


----------



## dancersmom (Sep 9, 2014)

LOL, thank you. For some reason I think everyone else's horse behaves better than mine, glad to know he is like everyone else. He is a sweetheart and very gentle but obviously a stinker. It is getting old though with the head tossing and pushing into me. I will start tugging on the lead rope when he does it. He stands great tied, just a stinker when I am holding the lead rope.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Head tossing, while being led in hand, is similar to rooting, when ridden. It is a form of resistance.
I am pretty sure, any horse that tosses his head, while in hand, also does not truly lead with respect, nor stand tied solid, without pawing , nor just accept standing still, while being led in hand etc
Of course, medical conditions like ear problems, have been ruled out
Fix those basic holes, and the head tossing will go away


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dancersmom said:


> LOL, thank you. For some reason I think everyone else's horse behaves better than mine, glad to know he is like everyone else. He is a sweetheart and very gentle but obviously a stinker. * It is getting old though with the head tossing and pushing into me. * I will start tugging on the lead rope when he does it. He stands great tied, just a stinker when I am holding the lead rope.


He is being totally disrespectful, I would start carrying a crop, anytime he pushes into you give him one good hard whack, growl at him, be a bear, get him out of your space. 

With the head tossing don’t start tugging, shank him good and hard, then give him slack. He knows better, he is testing you, you need to win this power struggle.


----------



## dancersmom (Sep 9, 2014)

The problem with having a crop in hand is this happens while we are standing like when the farrier or vet is working on him. I am not riding when he does this, we are standing side by side on the ground. I don't want to smack him with a crop while the farrier is under him or the vet is doing something, someone could get hurt if he jumps. I need to be able to correct him while someone else is there. It's like your kids, they try to misbehave in public because they know you won't make a scene in public. He is doing the same, testing me in a situation that I have to be careful how I correct him so no one gets stepped on or smacked into


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, fix this problem , before the vet or farrier gets there.
If he only does it when they are there, excuse the both of you, get a safe distance, and THEN correct him-hard.
Take him back, act like nothing happened, and give him a chance to do the right thing.
In other words, if he only does this when the vet or farrier are working with him, you absolutely need to show him that the same rules apply, although I am pretty sure that this hrose behaves like this, whenever he does not wish to go, or do what is being asked of him. 
In fact, my horses tie, and stand for the farrier. I don't need to hold them,
There are holes in your horse;s basic mannering, and they come out, not when being led where he has no objection of going, but whenever what is being asked of him, does not meet his own agenda.
Not difficult to have a chain shank on him, run under the chin, and when he starts his act, warn the vet or farrier to step back, and correct him.
Your horse is showing the same type of situation where a horse becomes show smart. The horse is never corrected in a show situation, as the person still hopes to place.
The horse soon decides that different rules apply in that show ring, then at home. 
If this horse only does that head tossing, when having feet done or vet work, you must correct him in that situation, while making sure everyone else is safe. Thus, you obviously don't shank him, while the farrier is under him!
You tell that farrier,'wait a minute, let him get out from under the hrose, and then correct that horse, then act liek nothing happened, and give the hrose the chance to do the right and easy thing.
Black and white boundaries, and not boundaries with exceptions!


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

dancersmom said:


> The problem with having a crop in hand is this happens while we are standing like when the farrier or vet is working on him. I am not riding when he does this, we are standing side by side on the ground. I don't want to smack him with a crop while the farrier is under him or the vet is doing something, someone could get hurt if he jumps. I need to be able to correct him while someone else is there. It's like your kids, they try to misbehave in public because they know you won't make a scene in public. He is doing the same, testing me in a situation that I have to be careful how I correct him so no one gets stepped on or smacked into



Then you tell the person to stand back while you deal with it, it's not rocket science! Carry the crop whenever you are leading him and correct anytime he puts a foot out of line. Like your kids the discipline is installed BEFORE you go out in public.

BUT....Recent show we were at, my horse decided to be a pill at the mounting block.....so bad that even one of our experienced people was making nothing of it, so the trainer came up, said "right, what is going to happen is I'm going to lead her up, you are going to move to mount, she is going to be an idiot, I'm going to get after her, it's not going to be pretty. Then I will bring her back, and you will get on"

That is just what happened, everyone around knew what was going to happen, so they stood back, let him correct her, and she came back to the block as sweet as anything. Sometimes an audience will bring out the worst.


----------



## dancersmom (Sep 9, 2014)

The thing I love about this forum is the knowledge within it. There are so many people with so much knowledge and advice. I do not have any friends or acquaintances with horses, I did not grow up with horses so this is the place I go to for questions and various points of view for answers. I want to learn, I want to be a good horse owner and I am willing to learn and try to do what is needed to accomplish those goals. I do not show, I am just a pleasure horse owner doing my best.


That being said, I understand the frustration that people may have when they have the knowledge base of growing up with horses, having a trainer, etc. and then having someone asks a question they feel the answer to "isn't rocket science". I again am doing my best. Telling me to "handle it now!" leaves me with questioning myself the next time when I have a question. Whether or not to ask for advise because of the response I could potentially get that makes me feel unworthy of owning a horse.


At sometime everyone is a first time horse owner. There is soooooo much to learn it's crazy. I am asking to be recognized for my effort and willingness to learn. Please be kind


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

It is a huge learning curve, and I'm right there with you. I can promise you this though - once it starts to click with you and make sense in terms of how horses view you and the rest of the world, it gets easier.


----------



## dancersmom (Sep 9, 2014)

Thank you I appreciate it. 


I'm still not sure though what I am suppose to do when I do walk him away from the farrier or vet. I know I'm not beating his butt (would never do that) but what do I do? What is the discipline/correction?


I do not normally have to be there when the farrier comes every six weeks (he does stand nicely tied for her) but since we are doing a laminitis recheck with the vet Friday she wanted to make that her appointment day to hear what he has to say. She feels he is doing great but wants confirmation. So I know, he is going to toss his head for both of them.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Realize that there is a learning curve, and while I did grow up with some draft horses, no one told me anything about correct training or handling
I guess, that is where years of learning, making mistakes, learning from them have an advantage, but if I could, I would chose to be younger, further back on that learning curve, LOL!
Thus, just try to understand the basic way horses think, learn and react.
They learn by direct results of any action, and unlike us, don't make moral judgements .
Thus, if you fail to demand the same kind of obedience/respect, no matter what is going on, where the hrose is, fail to correct an action that you otherwise would, horses soon learn that the same rules don't always apply.
So, if your horse usually knows better then to toss his head when being handled,knowing he will corrected if he does, and then just happens to toss his head a few times, when being worked on, is not corrected, does not take the horse long to associate certain situations where the usual rules do not apply
Thus, you need to show him that they do.
Head tossing can escalate to rearing, and if little things are not fixed, horses learn to take that proverbial mile


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Well, of course you have to make some concessions for a pain issue. Is he sore st the moment?
If a horse has laminitis, then it can be painful for him to bare the weight on one front foot. Thus, if you know he is sore, that is a different story, and you might wish to give him some bute before he needs to have his feet worked on
I always rule out pain, before expecting a horse to act like his 'normal self'
If she needs to evaluate his movement, to decide if he is sore, then of course, you can't mask any pain with bute


----------



## AtokaGhosthorse (Oct 17, 2016)

Smilie said:


> Realize that there is a learning curve, and while I did grow up with some draft horses, no one told me anything about correct training or handling
> I guess, that is where years of learning, making mistakes, learning from them have an advantage, but if I could, I would chose to be younger, further back on that learning curve, LOL!
> Thus, just try to understand the basic way horses think, learn and react.
> They learn by direct results of any action, and unlike us, don't make moral judgements .
> ...


I like to imagine they're a little like toddlers (toddlers are creatures of instinct and emotion but also sponges on learning) and with horses, you are either the high horse or the low horse... there are no equals - and one thing you do not want is a 1000 lb toddler learning he or she is in charge.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

If he only does it for the farrier and the vet (which is a bit hard to believe), then fake him out. Get an experienced somebody out there to pick up his foot and hold it, or whatever sets him off, with the understanding that if he fusses, they back off and you get after him. The first thing I try is the fast back up. Back back back faster faster! Then just start over like nothing happened.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

I am a bit confused, as to whether this horse has active laminitis, thus has only resorted to this head tossing lately, being understandingly reluctant to bear weight totally on one front foot, or if he just does not like procedures done on him, thus is tossing his head in a form of protest
It is key that this distinction is made, and thus approach tailored accordingly


----------



## dancersmom (Sep 9, 2014)

I do not believe he has current laminitis. Back in May I had xrays done to find out what rotation we were looking at, no sinking thankfully. He was on stall rest for 4 weeks and then only limited to walk in a small portion of his pasture. We found out he is insulin resistant when he foundered and I have since made the pasture into a dry lot, no more grass, hay only and no grain. I am having my vet out because I want to be sure. I want the follow up to make sure he is okay and that everything I am doing is working. I would rather spend the money and be told he has recovered and the precautions I am taking are exactly what he needs than not spend the money to find out I was overlooking something. I guess the appointment is for my peace of mind.


I like the suggestion to make him back up if he starts tossing his head. He doesn't like it so I like that I can use that as a discipline option.


Thank you for the ideas and insight into his thought process. I have disciplined him in the past for various offenses and he picks up very quickly what is expected when I do it in the right manner.


----------

