# Jumped out of the saddle



## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I have been watching videos of myself jumping lately and have noticed that I get jumped out of the sadde a lot. It looks like I fall on my horses neck after the jump. It's hard to explain so I'll put videos. Can anyone help me to fix this problem? Will putting my heels down more help? Also, can someone tell me why she knocked the wavy jump in the last video? 

Sunny trots an oxer - YouTube


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

And this video too...


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## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

I'm not a jumping expert, though I used to jump a bit. My comments are based on general equitation rather than jumping specifically.

You seem to have a bit of a chair-seat. This could make you unstable and cause you to lean on your horse's neck.

You heels seem pretty down to me.

It's hard to see your position really well in these videos (you're just a little far away). But in your second video you have a couple of jumps closer to the camera. I slowed it down frame by frame, and I'm not sure, but I think I could see daylight between your leg and knee and the saddle. Take a close look your self and see if that's correct. If your leg is losing contact with the saddle, you would certainly get thrown out of the saddle.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I do see what you're talking about. I used to pinch with my knees, so maybe I'm trying too hard to reverse that. About the chair seat- I think it's because she was hollowing her back. We've been working on that A LOT the past week or so, next time I jump, I'll see what the videos look like then  Thank you for your help!


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

You knocked the wavy jump in the second video because you took off too long and jumped flat rather than having a nice bascule over it. You need to learn where the base of your jump is and ride your horse to the base of the jump. 
You are getting jumped out of the tack because your lower body is very stiff and you're not moving with the horse. Even at the canter, you're bobbing up and down with your legs as ineffective shocks. Get your leg back underneath of you and allow your ankle to move with the movement, relax through your hip. How is your sitting canter?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I can sit a canter on almost any horse.... except her. I end up feeling like I'm grinding into her back. I've yet to find that light seat that just flows with her. She is very bouncy in her back legs, and she is also hollow. My gelding is on his forehand ALL the time, so I'm getting used to actually seeing her neck. We've been working a lot on stretching into the bridle and relaxing whick makes the canter 10x easier. Some days it's like she is back at he track and I have to remind her that she knows how to canter, not just gallop. My previous trainer always said to keep your foot level like a platform to stand on, so I'm still trying to get used to doing it the right way again. With her, it's hit or miss somedays- I can have beautiful dressage and an awful time jumping, or I can jump great, but not get her to give to me. I'm hoping that as she gets older, she will become a little easier to ride (or I'll get used to her)


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

You can see what mean about her pogo-stick back legs at about 15 seconds on the first video (Sunny Jumps a Course)


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

JustDressageIt said:


> You knocked the wavy jump in the second video because you took off too long and jumped flat rather than having a nice bascule over it. You need to learn where the base of your jump is and ride your horse to the base of the jump.
> You are getting jumped out of the tack because your lower body is very stiff and you're not moving with the horse. Even at the canter, you're bobbing up and down with your legs as ineffective shocks. Get your leg back underneath of you and allow your ankle to move with the movement, relax through your hip. How is your sitting canter?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I was seeing this but didn't know how to translate into text. Thanks JDI.

At a canter approaching the jump. I would count under my breath "1,2,3" as I took the strides. Didn't really matter if I started late and went on 2 or early and went on 4. I think it helped me see the strides before the jump. Maybe it gave me something to concentrate on, maybe just a odd quirk.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I always caount. I even find myself couting my steps inbetween fence posts or trying to fit 3 even steps in the sidewalk cracks LOL I'm just wierd... I can see when I'm going to have a long/short spot, I just don't see it soon enought to fix it


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

It's great practice to count! Now what you need to develop is your eye to the base of the fence; knowing where YOU want the horse to take off from, and communicating that to your horse, so that even if they want to take off long, you hold them to the base and they respond by waiting to jump when you want to jump. You will then be able to shorten or lengthen the stride to accommodate the base of the jump.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Ok. any ideas on hoe to do this? I can see the long stride form 2 sometimes 3 strides away, but I feel like that's not enough time to fix anything. I like this mare because at 4 years old, she can usually get ok distances- better than what my gelding gets (he launches because of stifle problems)


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Here is a video to show you that I CAN do it, just not on her  This is me and my gelding at our first novice about a year ago. As an eventer, I do everything I can in standing position. My gelding is really strong, so the standing position helps me control him a bit better. I was trying to stand on her which is where the "bobbing" came in. She is just in such a different balance, it's harder than I thought. Don't mind the long spots in this video- he has joint issues that make it really painful to compress for a jump.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Yes  I will pop on my laptop later tonight and reply to this and a few other threads so my thimbs don't turn into bloody stumps. Hahah!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Is this the 4 year old mare? My first concern is to take her off jumping and get her relaxed at all three gaits, moving laterally and bending through the ribcage. Right now her nose is in the air (she can't see the jump!), her back is inverted, and she doesn't know where her legs are supposed to be. You will really start to be able to sit and ride her better when she RELAXES. I think she'd do really well coming off jumping for 6 months to a year and getting to learn the basics, solidly. 
That's how I got into dressage. I started having problems with my (then) mare rushing the fences and finding distances when we reached about 3'. We stopped jumping completely for almost a year, and MAN what a difference! We were black and white different from pre-dressage training. 
Anyways. Finding distances.
To get a good bascule over the fence, you want to take off and form a perfect arc over the fence, and land the equal distance away from the fence on the other side. This arc should be equal on either side, with the top of the arc directly over the fence. If you are too far out, (i.e. jumping "long") then the horse will flatten out over the fence and land too short on the other stride. The opposite is when the horse gets too close in to the jump (i.e. "chipping" the fence) and then has to pop up higher in front of the fence to clear it, think deer hop, and ends up landing either too close in to the base on the other side, or too far out.
Okay, so start out with a line that is exactly five strides apart. Ride that line and feel what it feels like without worrying about distance.. worry about your position, but let her figure it out at first. See what she does. Then try and get 5 strides in, and see what it takes to do so. What you want is the horse to take 5 equal strides between the two jumps. You want to find the line in front of the jump that allows the horse to jump with a smooth, equal arc over the jump. Take a moment on the ground to LOOK at the jump and see where that would be. Position the top of the arc over the middle of the jump, and see where that equal arc looks like on either side of the jump. Draw a physical line if you want to. 
Now ride that 5 stride and visualize the point you picked out, and ask the horse to jump when you want it to take off, not when it wants to take off. That means controlling the stride right to the base of the jump, and staying with her throughout the entire line. Ride that until you get an equal 5 strides. Then play around. Squeeze down to 6 strides, lengthen out to 4 strides, see what it takes to get the horse to jump at that line that you've imagined. 
Did that help at all? Do you need more explanation?


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Check out this video, too


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Thank you so much! That helped so much. I haven't jumped at all this week and we have been working on relaxing. I got her stretching into the bridle and you could actually see (from the ground) her back moving and swinging. She gets a little distracted sometimes and ten I have to do a circle to get her back, but it's a huge difference. I also started leg yields and she did it the first try both directions. Wierd mare- I can't get her to yield her shoulders on the ground, but it's no problem when I'm riding her... I have a combined test this weekend (18 inches division), but after that, I'm going to really focus on dressage. The problem with me is that I need a constant flow of things to work on. Once I get a good day where she does what I want, then I say "This is easy, lets go do something more fun... like jumping". To me dressage is actually quite boring  As an eventer I KNOW I need to do it, but it's just more fun to jump sometimes. After I get her relaxed, on the bit, and a little slower, what else is there to work on? I can do leg yields/half passes and shoulder/haunches in, but apart form that- I don't know how to ask for extended/collected.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

she looks very unbalanced in her canter. it looks like shes having trouble keeping her right lead in her hind as she canters. i would back off the jumps and get her really good on the flat and over ground poles before jumping her again.


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

You said you don't know how to ask for extended/collected. Does she know how to "rate"? Meaning does she know how to listen to your body for speeding up and mostly slowing down? Barrel racers use this as they are coming into the turn of the barrel. This might help you to help her with getting her head down as you wont be having to control her speed as much with the reins.
It's pushing them forward with your hips and core, touching down lightly on the saddle, or relaxing your hips and core and sitting deep to let them know to slow. Don't let your shoulders slump. Try not to let the rating be visible to someone on the ground. This will help in dressage for that extended walk.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I'll try the extended/collected gaits tomorrow when I ride her. She does listen really well to a pushing seat and a little squeeze with my knees-she slows down. I've been trying to figure out why she keeps cross firing on the right lead canter, but I've decided she just needs more muscle work, so lots of hills. She's only been doing the right lead since january, so she still needs practice. I'm worried about not letting her jump for several months, because I don't want her to get out of practice. I don't really want to start over from the beginning in a few months.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

if you do pole work and get her strong it will not be like starting over, dont worry !

i do an exercise with my mare nearly every ride at the trot before i canter. i find a place in the arena and get her super collected for just a few strides, then i ask her to lengthen for a few strides, then collect for a few strides, then i ask for canter. this way i have her really off my leg and between my aids at the trot and when shes in that work mode i introduce the canter.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I really strongly suggest working with a trainer to get her working through the back and rib cage correctly  while you may be doing leg yields, a half pass is very advanced and not many people do it correctly without guidance from a great coach. Isolating haunches and shoulders in yields is fantastic. 
I would really come off jumping for a while to get basics down pat - I guarantee you it will only help your jumping, it will not hinder it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

I would worry about my horses long term health from jumping so young than getting out of practice. My mare is 8 and we have just started popping over small things. We have a ways to go before attempting to canter to her next jump. Not saying you should wait that long, just saying they will learn and remember however old. My first jumper was a pony horse from the race track who was over 10 when we got him. Nicest little hunter and natural jumper. 

I would want to correct the problems she has now. Picking up correct leads, drop changes then flying changes, relaxing her neck and rounding, accepting the bit, rating, and going the direction you are looking. For eventing, you need to practice for the boogers on the cross country course. The astro turf, the lattice, going through water, body conditioning. And of course dressage!


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

I have weekly lessons with my trainer and I don;t know what I would do without her  She does flying changes (most of the time), she does water and I've yet to find a jump that makes her back off. She is very smart, so I have a hard time keeping her interested when we have to work on the boring stuff. Half pass is still at the walk, but it's getting there. I have really been working on keeping her supple on both sides. Going in a straight line I can take a little inside bend, a little outside bend and then straight. This has helped keep her on the bit and working with her mind. Just refining the skills and we will be good for novice/training dressage test


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## 4everiding (Jul 3, 2012)

All jumping is is stride control. You can't successfully jump if you can't control the length of the stride. A horse can take a jump one of three ways:

1. in stride
2. long
3. short

A horse in a true frame and balance will be able to take the jump any of these three ways and still jump up and into your hands, have a nice bascule and jump from his haunches.

A horse that is unbalanced and not in a true frame will lose his rhythm if he has to take it long or short (get faster, break stride, jump flat, etc...)


Your mare isn't giving you her back what so ever at the canter, and when you say you feel like you are grinding into her back when you sit the canter, this is why. She's bracing against you, which is what most OTTBs do. I would ride in a deep two, and ask for inside flexion, outside flexing, inside flexion, outside flexion...until you feel her soften her mouth and back. Reward her by letting your reins out a bit and let her reach into your hands. Once she feels soft, slip into a deep three and keep your butt in the saddle and let it move forwards and backwards with her gait but not up and down. If someone put a cold hand on your back, you would hollow it. This is what your mare is doing. Your goal is to keep her back soft so you don't make her hollow it away from you when you sit the canter. Do these exercises with ground poles at the trot and canter as well, if she is in a true frame and ready to lengthen or shorten her stride she will be able to take the poles in-stride, long or short with no change in the quality of trot or canter. This will make your ride much better. She seems to really enjoy jumping, so I wouldn't worry too much about starting all over again. 

Plus, jumping is mostly flatwork with some obstacles in between. If you don't have nice flatwork, you won't have nice jumping.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i will add though, i dont think its a bad thing to incorporate poles or small jumps/ mostly Xs into your flat work. ime, jumping will help improve the canter so so much


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

An example of how much she loves to jump- I was told by the BO today that she Jumped a 4ft+ fence out of her field, then spun around and jumped back into the field. She is 4..... Crazy mare


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

Well she should have no problem remembering how to jump after a few months off. 

There is just so much you could be working on with her, without stress of excess jumping at such a young age. 

We have an ex Olympic warmblood jumper at our barn named Elton. Elton is in his 20's and his legs are so broken down. He has lumps and bumps everywhere. What they are, I'm not sure but he has to have two stalls in order to be able to move around properly. After seeing him, and another who's back fetlocks? were "broken down", I would just want to preserve my horse's health for the long run and take it slow. That's just what I personally would do if she were my horse. Especially because she needs so much work on the flat. JMHO


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

i have a horse who is 23yo and has been jumping since he was 4yo. he is sound and still jumps and has never had his hocks injected =]


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## aldebono (Mar 15, 2012)

That is wonderful to hear! Maybe poor Elton was just unlucky. But it is horrible to see him hobbling at the barn. Just found him online. He is 26.


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## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

if he was an olympic level horse im sure he has getting a lot of maintenance [ie supplements, injections, etc] while he was riding at that level. he probably does not get those things anymore and his hard work has caught up to him.


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## Ashsunnyeventer (Aug 17, 2012)

Now I have to worry about keeping her contained! I hope this doesn't happen again, or in the middle of the night.....


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