# Weird hip bones? Underweight?



## PunksTank

So ever since I got my Belgian he was seriously underweight and I built him back up. He's still lacking muscle on his topline, we don't work hard or often so it doesn't matter much. But the top of his hips have these bumps on them that just aren't going away. Is it his hip bones? Or something else? Is that also lack of muscle?


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## MoonshinePaint

my younger mare has the same thing. i think its some lack of vitamin and exercise.


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## PunksTank

Maybe it's exercise? Maybe he just needs more muscle? He's on a high dose of Vitamin E and A and a regular amount of everything else in his ration balancer. Maybe he needs more of something?


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## Yogiwick

I think he could use a tad more weight. Hard to tell from pictures because he overall looks good. I find stocky horses will get to an "ok" weight then if you feed them more will fill out to where they should be (grow muscle) THEN get fat. Our Icelandic mare lost weight last summer and while she was a "good weight" not ribby or anything she didn't look right. We upped her feed and she got back to where she should be and was a nice stocky horse at a good weight, and NOT fat (at the moment she's pretty fat though lol)

So if you can feed him more to bulk him up without making him fat that would be good. Hope that is making sense. I googled to find pics of Belgians at a healthy weight (SO many fat ones) to try to show what I mean.



I feel these horses have good breed type while being at a healthy weight. Maybe a tad round but I'm not a draft person.

I remember our girl we were saying how skinny she was and our farrier was saying she was good and technically she was but she just lost that "bulk" and stocky breed type.

Sorry for rambling just trying to explain, hope I'm making sense. So I would up his feed while working him to build muscle. I don't see anything abnormal there, just a large horse that needs muscle mass.


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## Yogiwick

Oh Punks, forgot to add. He looks GREAT! I saw his initial pictures. He has come a long way, and looks very happy.


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## PunksTank

That makes a lot of sense - he's an older guy (19) and worked his whole life, very hard as a city carriage horse (every day 12 hour days). When he couldn't maintain his weight on what they fed him they eventually sold him to me.

His current diet is 2 pounds of ration balancer (nutrena empower), 2 pounds of alfalfa pellets, 4 quarts of timothy/alfalfa cubes, 10,000IU of vitamin E, Brewer's Yeast, 2 cups of canola oil, 2/3 a cup of flax seed, 1.5 tablespoons of MSM. Split up into several feedings and of course free choice hay 24/7 and water of course.


This was him on arrival right off the trailer










This is him now flapping around like a looney-bin 
































But the funny hip thing still bothers me - my vet is afraid of him gaining too much weight and not enough muscle, as older drafts can have a hard time getting up from laying down. That's what spelled the end for her Belgian, so she's trying to make me cautious. But I do worry!


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## PunksTank

Could it be he has a hunter bump on both sides? He's been a carriage horse since he was 2, working exceptionally hard. I know he's been in 2 accidents but only has a big scar on one side to show for it. Maybe and accident caused it? I'm not really sure much about what they are except this:


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## Chevaux

Maybe it is hunters bump or maybe it's his normal conformation??? Just like us (well, speaking for myself), complete physical perfection is seldom obtained and you expect to see variations from the ideal. Either way, he's a lot better now than when he came to you and he definitely does not look distressed in any way. If it makes you feel better, perhaps put on another 50 pounds - I do agree with the vet about getting up/down being harder as you age.


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## Yogiwick

He looks better in those pictures.

I have heard of that with several horses, I can see why it would be a specific problem with drafts. My old (emaciated in poor health) mare was put down when she couldn't get up. It's a fine balance and even a horse in good condition can have issues from arthritis or w/e.

I don't think he can gain muscle without really gaining weight though. I think he needs to bulk up and gaining muscle will go with that. IME (with lighter stocky horses) you need to feed more to get that bulk/muscle. It's the same thing and something that comes from good weight and feed (and basic exercise). Glad to see him running around!

I guess what I am trying to say is my mare for example was a 5 on a body condition scale, but had lost her bulk and looked scrawny. Feeding her more gave her normal build back but on a condition scale she was still a 5, so she lost her "extra" before she started to lose condition. So more food becomes more "bulk" which becomes/is muscle.

I feel this is the sort of horse you need to feed more to get more muscle. Obviously if he's getting fat at all cut back. Maybe you could add beet pulp? or a small amount of grain (I know you don't want to give much grain to drafts) Sounds like he's getting a lot of food already!


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## Yogiwick

I think the "bumps" are normal and just his conformation. Maybe "calloused' from back when he was so bony, lying down? Nothing stands out as weird to me.


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## Merlot

Are you feeding salt? If not give him a good 2 Tbsp of salt in his feed a day. Also amino acids may help to build his topline.


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## PunksTank

Maybe I'll increase his alfalfa as I don't think I can increase the fat in his diet much more, as he gets diarrhea pretty easily, but maybe adding more protein will help. 
He does a lot of self exercise, I wish I could ride him 24/7! But we just don't have the time. And he hates riding in his ring, he only likes "going somewhere" so it takes much more time than just hoping on for a few minute ride about.


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## PunksTank

Merlot said:


> Are you feeding salt? If not give him a good 2 Tbsp of salt in his feed a day. Also amino acids may help to build his topline.


Oh I have a salt lick in his stall! I also keep a bucket of loose salt where I tie them for grooming in case they need anymore.  

Whats a good source of amino acids?


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## PunksTank

The first pictures were from before Vitamin E and the newest pictures are from now, his topline has gotten better but his funny hip bumps aren't.


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## Yogiwick

I really do think it's just his confo










Something I see a lot of in drafts


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## PunksTank

Maybe that's it too Yogi - there's a reason he was rejected from the show ring as a 2 y/o and got sent to work in the city. Maybe that's it.


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## Merlot

OK A horse does NOT get enough salt from a salt lick or from loose salt. They just don't lick enough for their needs. I would definitely be putting it in his feed. Lack of salt is a major cause of ill thrift believe it or not


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## Yogiwick

Yeah it's not bad or ugly even, just the way he is. It's not like the bone is poking out, it's just at an angle where it is more noticeable (at least that's what I am seeing) It's up with his spine and then his rump is flat over his croup so it stands out.


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## PunksTank

Merlot said:


> OK A horse does NOT get enough salt from a salt lick or from loose salt. They just don't lick enough for their needs. I would definitely be putting it in his feed. Lack of salt is a major cause of ill thrift believe it or not


Are you sure? I'd be afraid of over-doing it too. Should I do iodized salt or sea salt? 
He doesn't go through his salt lick any faster than my other horses, or seem to want the loose salt (sea salt in there) - wouldn't he want it if he needed it?


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## Merlot

Absolutely - every one of our horses gets 2 Tbsp salt per day every day. They need it if they are grazing green grass or if you are feeding anything that is high is potassium (Alfalfa). It's all about the critical sodium/potassium balance. Horses are not like us, we couldn't eat enough greens to need so much salt ;-)
And it's just plain salt - Himalayan salt is great if you can get it


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## PunksTank

I was just looking through my old pictures of him to see if he's always had it - and he hasn't when I drove him (5 years ago) his rump was flat and muscled. But then he lost all that weight and I was looking at the pictures of him right before I got him while he was working - I noticed the bents over his hips are right where the breeching is. I wonder if the breeching damaged the muscle in some way?
The summer before I got him, about 6 months before


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## Yogiwick

I DO see it there. He is just more muscled at the time, while skinny his butt is muscled and round instead of flat. Especially at his age and after the way he was it will be very hard to get that back. While I think something may of exacerbated it, I think his conformation and past and current condition are what is causing it. I assume the vet has checked him over for any hip issues, so as long as he is sound and comfortable I wouldn't worry about it.


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## smrobs

Wow, he's looking so much better than he was! Great job there .

Personally, I would like to see a bit more weight on him, but that will probably come with time and you're right, it needs to be muscle not fat.

As for the bumps, they could be hunter bumps or part of his conformation...or they could be caused by ill-fitting harness on an already bony frame. If you look here, the spot where the harness sits on the apex of their rump (the same place where he's got the bumps). There is enough weight on there, it's holding up the breeching, that having it hang on a bony spine 12 hours a day for years might cause a bone spur of sorts.


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## PunksTank

Yogiwick said:


> I DO see it there. He is just more muscled at the time, while skinny his butt is muscled and round instead of flat. Especially at his age and after the way he was it will be very hard to get that back. While I think something may of exacerbated it, I think his conformation and past and current condition are what is causing it. I assume the vet has checked him over for any hip issues, so as long as he is sound and comfortable I wouldn't worry about it.


Sorry yes, I see it there as well - the first photo I looked at was from 5 years ago, I can't post that one cause there are people in it that wouldn't want their pic all over the internet  but he didn't have it then. The pic I showed he _does_ have it. It was just as he started his major decline in weight.


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## PunksTank

smrobs said:


> Wow, he's looking so much better than he was! Great job there .
> 
> Personally, I would like to see a bit more weight on him, but that will probably come with time and you're right, it needs to be muscle not fat.
> 
> As for the bumps, they could be hunter bumps or part of his conformation...or they could be caused by ill-fitting harness on an already bony frame. If you look here, the spot where the harness sits on the apex of their rump (the same place where he's got the bumps). There is enough weight on there, it's holding up the breeching, that having it hang on a bony spine 12 hours a day for years might cause a bone spur of sorts.



I was thinking that after looking at how his harness fit. It's clear it may have fit when he was healthy but as he lost weight it didn't anymore. I can see on his back the white spots of saddle sores started where the surcingle should be, then gradually sunk further back on his spine as he got skinnier.

these were the rubs he arrived with:










See the white on his back too?


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## Yogiwick

Can you blur out faces/bodies? I'd be interested to see.

I think it's just the way the bone is and things are causing it to be more obvious. I assume in the older pictures he was in better/good condition?


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## PunksTank

Yogiwick said:


> Can you blur out faces/bodies? I'd be interested to see.
> 
> I think it's just the way the bone is and things are causing it to be more obvious. I assume in the older pictures he was in better/good condition?


Ya he was, so maybe it was just muscle. I found this one of me riding him way back then -


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## PunksTank

Thank you all! It's fun brainstorming and learning


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## Bondre

I reckon your horse has a type of bony conformation that takes a lot of muscle to cover completely. My mare has the exact same rump as your Belgian. She is a large-boned horse too is(Spanish cross) and was very underweight when I got her in August. The difference is she is only 3. She is gaining weight but it's hard going. I'll try salt in her feed - she has a salt lick but doesn't touch it.
This won't let me post photos right now, I'll post some later so you can see how similar her back end is. I'm always worrying about her bony lumps too!


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## Bondre

This was the day she arrived. She almost hasn't got a backside! In case you're wondering what's with all the welts on her rump, I didn't see the loading in the trailer. Her previous owner delivered her. I dread to think what they did to load her. :-( :-(


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## Bondre

This is her now. She still has the bony peak to her rump and sticking-out hip bones. Though she is cow-hocked: I wonder if the inward-leaning angle from hip to hock makes her hip bones more prominent? And the comparison with my very rounded Arab mare doesn't favour her either!

It looks like you've done wonders with your horse. He looks so carefree kicking up his heels in the snow.


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## thesilverspear

I think it's just his conformation. Looks like a typical draft hind end to me. Sure, he's undermuscled and could use a little bit more weight, but that's to be expected given what he's been through.


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## Boo Walker

I agree, it's a matter of some more weight and then developing a stronger topline.
Here is our 19 year old (it took about a full year to put good weight on him)


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## PunksTank

Oh poor love! Very glad you have her now, shes beautiful. Yes I can see how it could just be his bone set up  thanks


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## PixiTrix

Bondre said:


> This is her now. She still has the bony peak to her rump and sticking-out hip bones. Though she is cow-hocked: I wonder if the inward-leaning angle from hip to hock makes her hip bones more prominent? And the comparison with my very rounded Arab mare doesn't favour her either!
> 
> It looks like you've done wonders with your horse. He looks so carefree kicking up his heels in the snow.


Bondre- how much time between the before and after? I feel like my mare has the same bony hips and lack of hindquarter muscling as your mare did to start.

And punks tank I agree- mixture of conformation and needing a bit more weight. Great job getting him back to condition!


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## PunksTank

Thanks guys! I've upped his alfalfa by 2lbs (so about 4-6 a day, plus what-evers in his cubes). And I've added salt - but he really doesn't want loose salt, so I think I'll only want to add it for a short while. I don't want to overdo the salt and cause inflammation in his already arthritic joints.


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## CLaPorte432

i do agree that he needs some more weight. He looks wonderful compared to what he came to you like.

Have you had him checked by a chiropractor?

My mare had an injury to her leg, and she limped for months. That alone caused her hip muscle to atrpohy (lose muscle mass) and you could visibly see a major difference in height. 2 inches lower on her left side then the right.

If he is 'off' in the hips/back area, it could be causing uneven muscling/atrophy of the muscle. He's 19, a hard working horse, he probably has some mis-alignment along his back/hips. I pay $75-$100 for an adjustment. My horses LOVE it and feel sooooo good after-wards. And its way cool to watch. ;-)

good for you for taking him in. He looks like a wonderful boy. and you two obviously have had a history together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank

CLaPorte432 said:


> i do agree that he needs some more weight. He looks wonderful compared to what he came to you like.
> 
> Have you had him checked by a chiropractor?
> 
> My mare had an injury to her leg, and she limped for months. That alone caused her hip muscle to atrpohy (lose muscle mass) and you could visibly see a major difference in height. 2 inches lower on her left side then the right.
> 
> If he is 'off' in the hips/back area, it could be causing uneven muscling/atrophy of the muscle. He's 19, a hard working horse, he probably has some mis-alignment along his back/hips. I pay $75-$100 for an adjustment. My horses LOVE it and feel sooooo good after-wards. And its way cool to watch. ;-)
> 
> good for you for taking him in. He looks like a wonderful boy. and you two obviously have had a history together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I _seriously_ need a chiropractor for him and my mare. Our life has been such a whirlwind for the past few months (wedding now moving) I haven't had the time or money to invest. But I think you're probably right. I can't imagine a 19y/o horse who couldn't use an adjustment! 
I'll see if I can find one now, but I might wait until we move so it's only one person who can follow him through his adjustments. We're moving 2 states away so I couldn't have the same person.
Thanks, he is the love of my life! I spent a long time missing him and waiting for him to come home - I'm very happy he is now, but he is a serious piggy! I don't think he's ever not eating  Hopefully increasing the alfalfa will help.


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## CLaPorte432

time in general is going to be the best for him. He will get there, just keep up the great work.

and yes, moving that far away, I may wait to find a chiro that can work with him multiple times.

I have 3 chiropractors that I've had work on my horses. all, luckily are on the same page with what is going on. The one that Ive found is the cheapest, is also the best. doesnt just adjust and leave (or have me leave, actually) But he does deep tissue massage and will work on the horse for 30-60 minutes depending on the severity of the issues going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bondre

PixiTrix said:


> Bondre- how much time between the before and after? I feel like my mare has the same bony hips and lack of hindquarter muscling as your mare did to start.


PixiTrix, four months passed between those photos. I work her regularly (4 or 5 days a week) on trails or in the 'arena' (actually a field). When I got her she wasn't backed and barely knew how to lunge, so she just didn't have muscle from lack of exercise. I don't feed her anything special, no supplements or anything: she gets the same as my lactating Arab mare, just more of it.


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## Binder

A lot of older horses get that its nothing to worry about. The bones are just more pronounced.


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## Saddlebag

If you want to beef up his butt he needs to pull something to get those muscles working. If you ride him, walking hills will help with that as well.


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