# Purchased Horse through Online Auction- AQHA papers have brand- horse doesnt!



## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

So I recently purchased a two year old on an online auction site. The horse went straight from the seller to my trainer (who is a few hours away). I have yet to see my horse, however received pictures yesterday. I alo just recently received his AQHA papers. While I was looking at the pictures my trainer sent I realized I did not see his freeze brand on the back left haunch. I realize there is winter hair and all but figured I would see white flicks on a chestnut horse. Well I contacted my trainer to double check for me and he assured me that the horse does not have a brand.
There was no mention of markings or brand on the online auction site, but when I received the papers to send them in for transfer of ownership I noticed the brand. 
Who is responsible for this? How should I proceed?
According to the papers they belong to a horse that has a brand and mine is clearly lacking that- in my eyes it would be considered as not being the same horse and something that the seller should have corrected before consigning to the auction. 
Input would be greatly appreciated!


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Does the horse have any other markings (on his legs or face)? If so, those should also match what's on the paperwork.

It sounds like the papers don't belong to this horse.


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

Thats what I would think as well...
I puchased him through the auction straight from the breeder. The facial markings and leg markings (aside from one back leg being up a smidge higher than I believe his is) are an accurate representation of the horse.
I am feeling as if the seller would need to make this right? as I have already transfered the horse into my name through AQHA without knowing that it was not an accurate description that I was provided with.
If I had not noticed and sold the horse straight from the trainers- his identity would absolutely be questioned by any potential buyer due to not having a brand that shows he should have on his papers.
Do I apply for a correction or should this be the responsibilty of the seller? Or should I request that they brand him as per how they sold him? It is their farms brand.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

I think you need to find out if those papers go with the horse before anything else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Since you got him directly from his breeder it should be easier to contact them and ask about it. That's what I would do first. 

If all else fails, brands are easy to add ;-):lol:


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

say they are the right papers that go with this horse...
If need be I can go through the DNA verification number.
How do I proceed with the seller over the brand issue? Is it now in my hands or something they should be taking care of/doing right by as they sold a horse with identification they did not put on him.


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

Thank you Verona1016


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

PaintMyQuarters said:


> Thats what I would think as well...
> I puchased him through the auction straight from the breeder.


Start with understanding that this is a property dispute. 
Begin by contacting the breeder and also alerting your attorney and asking, ahead of time, how $much it may cost if you have to sue. The breeder gets one chance to prove that this horse matches the papers. If the papers have been switched and the breeder didn't do it, the breeder must deal with the auction house about mishandling the registration papers, and then satisfy you with either the correct horse or the correct papers.
If you discover that the breeder did indeed switch the papers, contact your attorney and, now listen to this:
*LET YOUR ATTORNEY DO ALL CONTACTING AND ALL OF THE TALKING!!!!!!!*
You paid for the horse that matches the paperwork, OR you paid for another horse that is registered, or not registered. The extra money you put out is for a registered horse from this auction, as opposed to a horse that you did NOT bid on but was delivered to your trainer. You did not mention whether the brand was visible or mentioned during the online auction.
Your goal is just to match the horse to the correct papers.
Decide NOW if you like this horse and are happy with what you paid. You never know--you may have gotten a better horse than the one you won in auction. OR, the horse is lesser and the papers are for a deceased animal. There are many possibilities. Good luck. =D


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

The brand was not visible in the pictures on the online auction (when i received the papers I had figured that maybe it was hidden due to the horse being in a full winter coat). BUT there is no mention of markings or brands in the online descriptions of any horses listed. It was not until I received the papers from the auction that I noticed the brand as a marking... and then not until I received the new papers with myself listed as owner that I questioned the brand after receiving pictures from my trainer.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Then proceed as I suggested. There are honest mistakes, but we all know about "horse traders." You will feel silly if you do NOT give the breeder one chance, and you will feel silly if you do not proceed with an attorney if he has switched papers. =D


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

I misunderstood. I thought it was brand on horse not papers. My posting is out of sync with the issue.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

what were the rules of the auction ? Maybe they sent you the wrong horse or the wrong papers ? I would be contacting them and asking them to correct the situation. 
If nothing is done, and you dont want to transfer the papers to your name, contact the
AQHA and let them know that this auction is selling horses without the correct papers.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

to add a brand to match the papers is dishonest.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

It could be an auction error, or the breeder switched the papers. I tend to believe that latter.


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

So, I contacted auction and they contacted seller.
Was an oversight on the sellers part as per their reply to the auction. I have two options- to correct the papers or be supplied with the brand...
but being supplied with the brand once again brings us back to "branding a horse to match the papers"... which is a feeling of dishonesty unless I verify the dna prior to the branding process.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Does the breeder have the DNA evidence? A brand is such a great way of protecting yourself, should your horse in the future be stolen. Heaven forbid, But...


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

I would ask the seller to pay for the DNA test, if the dna comes back to match the horse you have, then i would ask that the seller supply a letter stating that they never did get around to branding the horse and pay for the correction on the papers.
I would insist on a DNA test , a new one, to make sure you have the correct horse.


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

He has a DNA case number on his papers, but I think I may have to proceed with contacting AQHA to have another DNA test done in order to be sure I have the correct horse. In the meantime... I am trying to decide now if I should proceed with getting him branded or ammend the papers and remove the brand. Any thoughts?
I feel a brand helps trace lineage if he should ever lose his papers in the future, but also feel that it is not a process I want to have to hire someone to do. I do however pick the horse up from the trainer at the end of the month- do I make an appt with breeder to stop there for his branding prior to heading home with him? So many decisions and scenarios to consider.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

It is a misrepresentation for the previous owner (seller) to fill out the horse's papers WITH a brand, and not have branded the animal. I suggest that you ask him to pay for this. I would want my animal branded.


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## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

DNA test should be done before papers or horse is done to "match"! IMO AQHA would frown on someone wanting to remove a designated peice of identification from the papers!!!! have a blessed day!


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

I prefer that he is branded as well.

Maybe I should suggest then that on our return home with the horse we stop by the breeder for the branding? That way it is on their hands to do the branding and only a half hour added to my haul (not including the process etc.)...


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## AQHSam (Nov 23, 2011)

My understanding: The brand doesn't buy you much if it is not registered. I branded my horse, but the brand used is registered. 

At this point, I would amend the papers and do more research on branding your horse. You may want to design your own brand. You should have a vet with freeze-brand experience apply the brand. 

But, even that is not a given. The vet that did my red dun caused one end to be black. One section to be white, and no change to the rest of the brand. :? It's more of an eyesore than anything.


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

Doing the above after a DNA test of course!


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Sorry about your headache! Sounds like you had a really good plan, what with the purchase and then sending the horse to a good trainer. Hope you get this worked out soon. =D


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

Thanks Corporal!
I am very excited over this horse and he has been progressing extremely well at the trainers. Have been on cloud nine about him until yesterday afternoon when I noticed the issue :-/
He has gone from an unbroke 2 year old to a horse that is doing walk trot lope, soft to both sides, backing up, tucking his nose and starting to turn on his haunches in just the first 33 days of training. I am excited to see what 60 brings! and then a year with me just doing trails and exposing him to cows and then back to the trainers next year for another 60-90 days  Hopefully will make something nice in the end!


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Verifying the DNA match is definitely a good idea.

Given the option, I'd personally go for fixing the AQHA papers rather than adding the brand. I don't really see brands adding any value in identifying a stolen horse that the registered recorded face/leg markings don't already do. I've seen several of threads in this forum with people looking to trace back their horse's history based on a brand and never seen it be useful (except in the case of JC lip tattoos or mustang neck freeze brands, but that's because of the central data repository associated with them)


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

My TWH bears a large white freeze brand on his near shoulder yet there is nothing on his reg. paper. I've spoken with the breeder and it denotes order of birth at her place. It's not the markings the horse is born with. Brands can be adulterated.


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## PaintMyQuarters (Apr 2, 2014)

I know that through Aqha when a brand is added you have to send in corrected paperwork to show the new marking or scar. And I assume that to remove a brand I would have to show proper paperwork/pictures along with the correction papers. I guess I just feel that if I purchased the horse and his papers came with the breeders brand on his back hip he should have it. Huge oversight on the breeders part to consign and sell a horse without being sure his papers match (brand wise) as everything else is in place to show it is the same horse as the papers say it is. I will need a DNA test for my own assurance and hopefully get him his brand. Its a farm with good standing in the horse world and great lines so if anything I hope that it helps rather than hurts in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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