# Getting that nose tucked



## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

Wow... its been awhile since Ive been on here!!! 

Anyways April and I have been working alot on English riding- a lot of work with getting the canter even and nice flowing and our trot is starting to be more flowing as well. But that dang nose!!! I try to hold and when she gives in i release and then right back out it goes... I do it over and over but she doesnt seem to hold it for me. If I really hold to force her to keep it tucked she will throw her head down to fight against it. Is there any other exercises I can try? She will naturally keep her neckline even. I attached a couple pics of us at the trot so you can see what Im talking about with the nose. 

Thanks in advance!!!!


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## ilovelucy91 (Mar 11, 2009)

She might not have the muscle to hold it and I think for some horses it might be a conformation thing, I am just throwing ideas out though lol


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

If you're asking for contact, your reins are way too long. There's so much emphasis on riding back to front these days, people get confused and forget that you still have to shut the door up front or all that energy you're trying to create will go right out the other end. In both pics, I would suggest moving your hands forward. They should be in front of the pommel, not over it. Raise your hands up about a pinky length above the withers. Take up the slack in the reins so that you can just feel your horse's mouth. Ideally you want to create a straight line from your elbow to the bit. As you walk along, focus on following the motion of your horse's head with your hands, so that you're keeping a constant but soft contact with her mouth. It can be very difficult to find the ideal contact spot where you're not pulling on her mouth, but you haven't thrown it away either. Try establishing the contact with her head poked out like it is in the pictures. Your goal is the get her to where her nose is just in front of the vertical. At this point, time to switch your thinking away from the reins. Now your job is to use your seat and legs to drive her up into the contact. At first you just want ask for a more lively walk, just enough to give her the idea that you want a little more. If she braces against the bit instead of softening to it, try some circles or serpentines to start suppling your horse around your legs. A supple horse is ultimately what creates a balanced horse. It has zero to do with the head. Make sure you're providing a nice, soft leg for her to bend around. Once she starts to balance herself, she'll start to feel lighter in the bit and hopefully chew on the bit a little. You'll find yourself taking up slack in the reins as she becomes more balanced and becomes shorter in her frame and she engages her hind end. There's like a zillion more pieces to this puzzle, but for starters just find ideal contact and then drive her more forward into that ideal contact and see how she responds. If she has never moved this way before, please know that she will be using a different set of muscles than she is used to, so don't ask for too much for too long. Sorry I wrote a book. good luck.


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## anrz (Dec 21, 2008)

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for, but it might help a bit. The Three-Second Solution: Putting Your Horse On the Bit


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

MyBoyPuck- thanks for the "book"...lol- it really helps a lot. I have a tendancy to have let my reins have slack (the western in me I guess), I will make more of an effort to keep contact and to also bring my hands forward. I have been working on getting her soft on the bit so I will just continue. Thanks again and I will really work on what you said.

anrz- thanks for the article, when i get a some time I will read through it.

ilovelucy- i dont think it is a conformational thing- I just think it is a training thing. Thanks for a reply though


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## ilovelucy91 (Mar 11, 2009)

haha your welcome  I wasn't sure I had just read somewhere that it COULD be more difficult for a horse whose conformation was different or wasn't used to it....but I think myboypuck summed it up nicely lol


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## ivorygold1195 (May 27, 2009)

i think you should first tighten you reins and keep one hand steady and you play with the other. and drive her forward with you legs into you hands.
and also if that doesnt work try and bridge her.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm going to get slammed but here go's...

My suggestion is to use some draw-reigns for a while. Over set her if you need to (be careful not to fall heavy on the forehand) You need to help her to build the muscles she needs to tuck that nose. As for the reigns I think they are great for HUS. 

You would kick but in a hunt show right as you are, but for AQHA type stuff... You need to dust off your draw-reigns for a while... just my thoughts on it... she's cute.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Farmpony, that's not a bad idea. If adjusted properly to where they only function as a backup to the reins, it would assist her in finding the proper contact. The only reservation I have with this horse, is she is currently not used to any contact. She might perceive draw reins as too restrictive and panic if they're too short. She looks like a nice horse. I'd hate to see her first experience with contact be a fearful one. 

Angel Leaguer, if you try draw reins or side reins, please keep them as long as possible while still having soft contact until she gets the idea.


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

April has had draw reins on her before… she is fine with them for the most part but she just gets a little crabby when I hold her with them and then ask her to lope- she gets confused with the “you are holding me back but wanting me to go forward???” I used them on her early on last summer but this summer I was trying to do without them and her head level is good but just the nose which them makes her appear stung out even if she isn’t. My mom suggested the use of draw reins as well- don’t rely on them but use them as an aid. I probably will throw them on tonight and gently use them. 

I just started breaking April out into English this spring so we have come along way (the whole me using my legs to get her to move out was a touchy subject…lol). I need to personally find myself a trainer for a few lessons since Ive never really had formal English lessons but im starting to enjoy riding it- I took April to a show a couple weeks ago and we placed 4th out of 9 in English pleasure… it was the nose and the rough right lead that prevented us from getting a higher placing (I was still happy that we didn’t buck, or jump, or freak out…lol) 

Thanks for the help and I will let ya know how the ride goes tonight!!


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

Does anyone here know what muscles we're talking about?

Does anyone know what muscles are built when she's held behind the vertical, and over bent?

Or are we just suggesting things because they sound like they'd work?

I'm the one that's probably going to get slammed, but what I am seeing is a gorgeous, gorgeous horse that is moving in a classically correct long and low posture and she is getting slammed for it!

Look how far she's tracking up behind. Her back is raised, the front leg is free! This is due partially to the fact that this rider DIDN'T ask for her face, and DIDN'T overbend her.

When the horse goes down into a long and low position, the nose starts to come out, as this horse here has done, to allow the base of the neck to come up, as well as the back (look at the air under her front right leg in the first pic!!). When the head is forced to be tucked or worse, over tucked, this shuts the energy from going up and out the way it is supposed to, and balls the horse up in the front. She is offering you something that is harder--by moving this way, she is lifting the base of her neck and arching the front half of her, rather then shutting down and pulling herself around on the forehand.

Working her 'overbent' works the entirely WRONG muscles. Why does a horse's nose fall on the vertical? How?

A horse's head falls on the vertical when the muscles are relaxed. The TMJ loosens, and the head virtually 'rests' on it's hinge, and what we end up seeing is a head on the vertical. When you pull a head there, usually you are just shutting down the energy and the horse will ball up in front, build incorrect neck muscle, and then pull themselves around on the forehand.

Again, I really can't stress how much I am loving your mare at the moment. The neck muscles are GORGEOUS and correct!

Anywho, if the head on the vertical is a result of relaxation and proper lift in the front... then what happens when you pull a horse's head behind the vertical and overbend them?

The horse has to tighten the TMJ to keep the head behind the vertical, as well as tighten muscles it normally only uses for chewing. When you see horses in the ring with their heads behind the vertical and they look angry, this is why! It takes tension and effort to keep the head behind the vertical. It also doesn't build any of the muscles you'd want, it shuts the horse down (as your mare is trying to tell you when you work her in side reins!). Also, if you pull the horse's head back far enough, their breathing is impaired. (Think of a hose... and then bend the hose in half. Same thing!)

I would really hate to see this horse get 'punished' whilst she's offering you something so great!

Now, before I get jumped on because I'm a 'dressage queen' and this is not a post about dressage, I ride APHA hunters and some WP. Not dressage. 

What I would do for the show ring:

For YOU to ride a better long and low to help bring her back up further, you need more contact with the reins. She'll start to lean into the reins and REALLY stretch, and you'll feel weight in your hands. That's the last step of long and low, which is a wonderful stretch and training tool, especially for today's Hunters/WP horses. Sit up straight! Sink your weight in your heels. 

Otherwise, I would work on bending her. Use a fixed hand, and pull up and to the inside, making sure the bit is hitting her top lip. Fixed hand is important! When she gives to this pressure, you want to see her licking and chewing SOFTLY. This is when she releases the TMJ... and technically what you have to teach her to do is to relax and do LESS work, so that she drops her head on the vertical. Honest to god, I would only like to see her a little closer to vertical, and would love to see her nose poke out a little. I'm tired of the over bent, intimidated hunters in the ring today! (Judges will absoLUTELY pin a hunter with their nose a little poked out!)

Start the bending at the walk, and when you can get her to lick and chew, start at the trot and work on bending her back and forth softly. Don't get mad or impatient, as you're trying to teach her to relax the jaw! Keep contact with her as well, as this will help teach her that when in hunter gear and in the show ring, she has to tuck the nose!

I hope this helps, and if you need anything explained further, don't hesitate to ask. I absolutely ADORE your horse! (I actually want to use your second picture for my blog! hehee)


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## Skyhuntress (Sep 9, 2008)

mayfieldk said:


> Does anyone here know what muscles we're talking about?
> 
> Does anyone know what muscles are built when she's held behind the vertical, and over bent?
> 
> ...


 I disagree. Yes, she's tracking up, but she has absolutely no weight on her back legs and is extremely on the forehand. by nature, she appears to have a downhill conformation to begin with, which makes riding her up and forward essential to making sure that her forelegs don't deteriorate before their time. It really has nothing to do with her head position so much as the fact that the rider has no contact with her, so all that energy has no where to go except DOWN, which is exactly what's happening here. MyBoyPuck nailed it when she gave the analogy of the door having to be somewhat closed so that the energy can be contained and USED to get the horse to slowly take more and more weight on her hind end. 

I don't agree with the use of draw reins. They are a useful tool in some situations, but only if the rider is bang on in their usage. It should effectively only be used by riders that already know how to get a horse on the bit. Instead, if you do want to use a gadget, try bungee reins or those sliding side reins, because they have some give in them and they aren't directly connected to your reins, so have less of a tendency of forcing the horse behind the vertical.

But really, the best thing I can suggest is transitions. Lots and lots of transitions, where you have a light connection with her mouth (and this doesn't mean long reins! it just means a soft connection with her mouth) and when you ask for a transition, you ask it with a half halt so that the weight on her forehand shifts back on to her hind.

Good luck


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Great post Skyhuntres, I couldn't agree more with you.

I love it how everyone points out how to fix the horse, but no one points out how to correct the rider to reach the achieved goal of true collection. If the rider is out, so is the horse.

This horse is on the forehand, back is droped, hind end is high and the horses hind feet are not reaching nor surpassing the horses front feet. 

Why????? Because the rider is heavy on the forehand!!!! Her upper body is drastically ahead of the verticle, all of her bodies weight is on the horses shoulder. Her hands are dropped, way too open of an elbow angle.

The rider must be functional to create a functional horse.

For the horse to do the long and low, the rider must remain tall, functional hands to support their horse, seat on 3 points and driving forward, while lifting the horses back up into her aids.

You cannot drop your horse and expect them to do the long and low functionally. You still have to remain solid and functional to help their horse remain off their forehand and in the riders aids.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

I have my hands over my ears and my tongue is sticking out and I'm dancing in circles screaming lalalalalalala cus I like draw-reigns (although I do get them taken away because I tend to allow the horse to become heavy on the forehand). I think Angel is doing awesome and I love her horse and yes, she is a little forward and needs work and and and ... LALALALALALALLALLA


actually, there is a ton of great advice here....


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

WOW!!! Thanks everyone for all of the insight. Before I get started there hasnt been any use of draw reins for over a year or so and after reading everything to this point I will not be using them at this time. 

So no excuses for me... I need help with English riding and once things settle down in my crazy schedule I will be trying to find one for lessons. 

things that I gathered from all of your great responses is the following:

-*improve my body*- pull my weight off from her front shoulders by pulling my shoulders back, and raise my hands. With open elbow angle did you mean I should have more of a 90 degree type? Also drive more with my legs then trying to push my weight forward. 

*More contact with the reins* I need to keep a feel on the mouth (not jerking but light contact). Im using a smooth snaffle with a smooth dogbone inside- she seems to go with it quite well. (It is a myler, level one I think-I would have to check on that). 

*Half halts* we have been working on those- Im thinking that they will get much better when I get a better seat under me... She has gotten much better with those though.

*Flexing more* I start every ride with flexing and end with flexing but im guessing I could do more. 

*Transitions* Im assuming you mean practice going from a walk to trot back to walk then to canter, back to trot... so on and so forth. I started doing that to get her to not rush the canter and it seemed to help tons. But back to my body position if I start being more aware of my body it will help her even more. 

*Hind end use* By having more contact, sitting better, and driving with my legs she should start driving off her rear

Alright thanks a ton to everyone again!!! I have something that I can work with for now. 

One last question: Should she feel heavy in the reins when she is going correctly? Menaing she I be holding her in position or will she just learn where to sit with little pressure? Or if she is heavy on the reins is she not driving enough with her hind end? 

Thanks some more!!! Im exciting to go ride tonight


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

farmpony84 said:


> I have my hands over my ears and my tongue is sticking out and I'm dancing in circles screaming lalalalalalala cus I like draw-reigns (although I do get them taken away because I tend to allow the horse to become heavy on the forehand). I think Angel is doing awesome and I love her horse and yes, she is a little forward and needs work and and and ... LALALALALALALLALLA
> 
> 
> actually, there is a ton of great advice here....


Lol... The advice on here is great- I need the help and greatly lack on my English skills. Draw reins do let the horse to get heavy- may be why i have a slight problem now. Thanks for making me laugh :lol:


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## mayfieldk (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm going to have to disagree as well. You don't look at WP and HUS horses in the breed world and compare them to the same level or type of collection as a dressage horse. In the dressage world, the rump drops and the shoulder and head elevate. In the breed show world, there is no elevation of the head or neck... so the collection is much lower and basic. You want them working in a long and low frame, pretty much all of the time.

I also disagree with 'shutting' the energy, because that tells the rider to close their hands and stop the horse, or control the energy, or channel it. And stopping has nothing to do with collection. Collection has nothing to do with pulling back on the reins. Collection comes from impulsion (the horse tracking up and pushing), and anything you do to stop the horse just does a disservice to the collection.

I don't like draw reins either so I'll agree with you there. 

In the first picture, the fence and the arena are going down hill so I think it's misleading. The second one is straighter, and the horse looks much better. You can see the quadriceps working, the horse lifting... I couldn't disagree more with you. This horse is using her back legs... just not in a traditional english usage of collection where the head is coming up and the rump drops because of it. You can even see the positive DAP, which although can often times be a sign of tension or green-ness, certainly is very hard to do if the hind end is not being used! Usually, for QH's it is the other way around--negative DAP because they are dragging so forcefully.

For you, don't push your weight forward. Sit like you would in a western saddle! Think of your body as a captial 'D', with your chest and midsection being the bow of the D, and your back being the straight part. This will keep you straight with the right muscles, rather then just hollowing your back.

When I do long and low stretches with my horses, you can definitely feel it when they stretch down and pick up that contact. They are using the bit as a tool to help them stretch. However, if she's heavy all of the time, she's probably leaning! So in the beginning, I would have just enough contact to feel her mouth. If she starts to feel heavy... drop the contact. She can't lean if there's nothing to lean against.


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## Skyhuntress (Sep 9, 2008)

mayfieldk - I don't care whether or not she's a quarter horse world champion cutter or a 4th level dressage horse. The same principles of english riding apply. You want the weight off the forehand. Quarter horses are built by nature to have more weight on their front legs; its why you see so many downhill builds. It enables them to be a bit lower to the ground in the way they travel, which makes it ideal for cutting cows. It's not ideal though for english riding. In fact, its the exact opposite of what you want. In english riding, dressage, jumping, whatever, the weight HAS to shift back to the hind, with their shoulders at least somewhat elevated. you have to be able to give that energy a place to go though. without a connection to the reins, it poofs out (for lack of a better word) and becomes flat and downwards energy. 

So many riders run into problems with the "long and low". It is NOT throwing away the reins and allowing the horse to drop on to the forehand. It's letting them chew the contact out of your hand-while still keeping a good connection to their mouth- while still maintaining uphill movement. Their neck and poll drop, but most of their weight is still shifted on to their back end. 



Angel_Leaguer said:


> One last question: Should she feel heavy in the reins when she is going correctly? Menaing she I be holding her in position or will she just learn where to sit with little pressure? Or if she is heavy on the reins is she not driving enough with her hind end?
> 
> Thanks some more!!! Im exciting to go ride tonight


No, she shouldn't feel heavy. You should feel a little pressure from your connection with her mouth, but essentially it should be light, because she should be carrying herself. If you feel like she's heavy, she's likely on the forehand, and you just need to rebalance her with some half halts and a bit more leg.

As for transitions, the biggest thing is watching your own body. I have tendency to allow myself to fall forward during transitions, and it makes a HUGE difference, because you are shifting all the weight-yours and theirs-to the forehand, which is counterproductive. So just be really aware of where your body is and make sure you aren't tilting forward.

And remember, just take it a step at a time. Even if you and she can only maintain it for a few steps at a time, thats a terrific start


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Rofl farmpony!!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

One last question: Should she feel heavy in the reins when she is going correctly? Menaing she I be holding her in position or will she just learn where to sit with little pressure? Or if she is heavy on the reins is she not driving enough with her hind end? 


If she feels heavy in the reins, then you're just holding her together in a false frame. She is not in true self carriage. Just find the minimal contact and then use transitions to get her to gradually shift her weight more toward her hind end. If anything, you're initial minimal contact will feel lighter once she's more balanced. She needs to learn how to balance herself, so if she hangs on the reins, release them every few strides to give them a wobbly feel so she gets the idea that she needs to hold herself up. You'll find that once she's balancing herself from behind, her head will be that last place it's coming from. It's a wonderful lightbulb moment that you'll eventually experience and you'll never think about terms like "head set" ever again. 

Like others have said, you do need to help her out with your own position by making sure you are not in front of her center of gravity. I'm assuming since you ride western, you already know how to sit back, so just keep in mind to sit tall, open your shoulders and keep her shoulders free so she can do what is being asked of her. She's a beautiful horse. I'm sure you guys will get it sooner than later. Just be patient and don't ask for too much too fast.


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## ilovelucy91 (Mar 11, 2009)

I learn so much in this forum! lol I never seem to be able to see the whole picture O.O


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

Sky and MyBoy- THANK YOU!!!!

So I rode tonight I really concentrated on myself and sat more like i was in western and tried to really pull my legs back more to stay more centered. I know I was doing something different cause I was using muscles that havent been worked too much... lol. 

So I spent a lot of time at the walk with flexing and getting her even softer to the bit. She was fighing me to start with (wanted to push her nose out and fought for the reins). I worked on half halts and backing with her and she started carrying her head a little better. Then I went in a trot and really forced myself to not lean forward to push her but to use my legs and I held a constant connection to the bit. April was a bit confused with this and wanted to break into a lope. I slowly pulled back on the reins and got her into the trot. 

Once in the trot I held and kept saying "dont lean, dont lean". I continued to do walk trot transitions and kept contact with the mouth. I noticed she was really salivating and licking (not sure if that is a good thing or not). I got a few strides where she didnt fight me with the head and it was like her backend was bumping me up. So I stopped with the troting. We cantered a little and I cooled her down and called it quits. 


I know nothing will happen overnight but I have something to build on and it will come. Sady Im out of town this weekend to go to a wedding so I wont be able to ride till Monday. Thanks again and I will keep working on everything.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

Wow, sounds like you made great progress already. If she is chewing on the bit and has a little bit of foam, that's a very good sign that she's happy with the contact. Good for you for being smart enough to call it quits on a good note. You two make a good pair.


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## MIEventer (Feb 15, 2009)

Good for you! 

What makes a good rider - one who aknowledges their errors and works on correcting them.

So for that, I applaud you!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm not going to type it all again, but I did a dressage clinic yesterday, and what you're trying to do is exactly what he picked for us to work on. Please read my latest post on Braid for Clinic on the dressage forum.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

the fact that you have to chant don't lean don't lean riding english cracks me up, only because that is my chant for western! LOL.... UGH!


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

So I took April to a show this weekend and we had a much better time. Im thinking she is starting to enjoy going since she behaves better at shows then at home (which isnt the worst thing!!!). We placed third in English Pleasure, sixth in English Equ (our pattern wasn't the best looking... but we got through it), and we got first in halter mares. 

Here are a few pics- Looking at myself I think I need to pull my legs back and heels down more, hands need to be up more and my wrists turned up and April needs to reach a bit more underneath. Please feel free to add anything else. 

With the training we are learning to get the nose in and keep it there but the extended trot is still not there. Im thinking that once the nose comes the reach will come??? I try driving with my legs but then at the same time Im keeping some pressure with the reins and she gets a little confused... but we are coming along.


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

Congratulations! I'm glad you had fun. One thing about the pictures is that you're hollowing out your back quite significantly. I think you may be trying to fix your leaning problem by pushing your shoulders back, when really you should be tipping your pelvis more upright. With an overly hollow back, your back is more susceptible to injury, and you have a lot less strength through your core (as it's harder to use your abs). With your pelvis more upright, you'll be able to really ride up into the contact and use your seat through half halts. Also, lengthen your sternum and stretch it forward and up. 

Also, make sure there's a straight line from your elbows to the bit, so your lines of communication are clear. When your lines are crooked you can pick up unnecessary 'static'.

Great job overall! You're both super cute.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

I would get rid of those draping reins, first of all. Everyone else pretty much said it. Your mare is gorgeous, btw.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

she's darling! you don't look so bad yourself... yip - pull the legs back, get the heels down otherwise you are super cute!


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## Angel_Leaguer (Jun 13, 2008)

Jessabel- Are you talking about the reins in my OP? I have been trying to keep contact and no more western rein...lol

Misfit- I totally see what you are talking about. I went out and rode last night and worked on moving my pelvis back instead of my back... And it was different but the middle of my back didnt get that locked up feeling. My BF came with (who isnt really a horsey guy) and I told hime to watch my seat and eveytime I start to lean yell at me... It really helped. 

Farm pony- Thanks!!! A good handful of people at the show commented on how they like the looks of her along with her size (she is a moose!!!) But now that we are starting to get things figured out together the rides are be coming more fun then frustrating... 

Thanks again everyone!!!!!


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## Misfit (Jun 29, 2009)

That's great that your back isn't feeling locked!

When riding locked=bad. Surprisingly enough, it is SO much easier to ride when you're sitting properly. Once you fix that, you will notice a lot of improvement in the effectiveness of your seat.

Not sure if I told you, but your mare is super cute. She also wants to come live with me. :wink:


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

In English style riding bringing a horse's nose down so as to go "on the bit" is part of dressage training and very useful in show jumping. But your photo suggests that your horse is used to being ridden on a long rein with the rider sitting on a big western saddle - the weight of the rider being spread across the horse's back. 
Your own posture needs correcting for English - you are leaning forwards, your heels have raised up and perhaps your stirrup leathers are too long. To get the horse to bring its nose down and to lift its neck up calls for you to be sitting differently.
The English saddle has a smaller footprint on the horse's back so your weight is concentrated over a smaller area.
You should be holding the reins in two hands with a much closer contact with the horses mouth. To "go round" , the horse's hind quarters are pushed up front by the action of the rider's "rump" - the horses neck & head being restricted by shorter reins. It is all very sophisticated really and it is best for the horse if a well schooled rider works the horse first so as to give the animal an idea of what is required. 
You may well have learned to ride "western" which is a different technique.
In Britain this "going on the bit" is regarded as being a medium advanced technique for an experienced rider. Long term success in getting the horse to carry the rider by have a rounded outline undoubtedly makes the horse nicer to ride but it can be a long road to success unless you have someone knowledgeable locally to help you.
The journey will start with your learning to sit differently.
This forum can only hint at what you have to learn.
Try to find a good sympathetic instructor who rides English.


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## TroubledTB (Jun 26, 2009)

^----Love it. Almost everyone here has said what I was thinking as I progressed along the posts. If I were your eyes on the ground all you would hear from me is shorten your reins! The only think I think has happened is some of these people have really complicated the whole process with worrying about everything, all important things, but I would make it simple:
1. Shorten your reins, till they are in the mane and your horses head is up off the ground, maybe over exagerate until you realize how much feel you are going to need.
2. Get an english lesson, and not a western english lesson, but a dressage or true english barn. AQHA shows don't demonstrate the same frame as a true english horse needs to go in, and it can vary base on conformation. QHs are built with a low headset that many people take advantage of to create a nice english picture, you need to show/train your horse different headsets like a dressage carriage, equitation frame, and true hunter horse frame, where it has to be up off his forehand in order to jump.
3.Then try fancy equipment, draw reins, new bit, something that might present the idea of a different carriage, while it will not correcti everything, like draw reins making them carry thier head better, but doesn't really correct the heavy on the forehand back to front stuff, it's again about correcting one thing at a time and recognizing better vs. perfectly correct. But I wouldn't reccomend some of this stuff until you have a much firmer grasp on how much contact this requires. I have used it all, don't bash anything, but one should educate themselves, try, reassess. Somethings just work sometimes, but recognize your specific scenario.
Otherwise there is no substitute for the constant nagging of a good trainer or experienced friend.


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## benheschen (Jul 9, 2009)

Many thanks to MYBOYPUCK. My trainer tells me exactly what you wrote but it helps to reinforce what my trainer says verbally by seeing it in writing !


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## SFMoneyMarket (Sep 20, 2008)

I think you guys look super cute together, if you got her to just pull in a tad bit more, and I mean a very miniscule amount, she would make a star hunter.

I think you should put your stirrups up a hole, it would definatley help you pull your leg back a bit.

Good job!


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## lauraa94x (Mar 24, 2009)

farmpony84 - draw reins are a good idea. it will help her build up the muscles that she needs to go on the bit and tuck her nose in. 

overall, you're doing well by the sounds of things, but the first thing i noticed - definitely in the first picture, you need to sit back a bit. shes not a stocky built horse (ie shire, clydesdale, percheron etc.) but you need to sit back as some horse feel the weight being lifted off their backs and would like to chuck that buck in every now and then and you will go splat  another BIG thing is your reins.. if you're wanting to get contact out of her, they need to be shorter. fair enough you've been riding western for a while, but they need to be shorter but still have that space for her to move and for you not to be yanking on her mouth. 

looking good though 
x


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## drafts4ever (Sep 1, 2009)

*I've been looking for this!*



anrz said:


> I'm not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for, but it might help a bit. The Three-Second Solution: Putting Your Horse On the Bit


Thank you for posting that link. I needed it!!!


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## Count Jackula (Aug 28, 2009)

Looking good  I'd advise against draw reins until she's brought her head back a bit though...I'd agree with shortening your stirrups a couple of holes, and your reins too, and lifting your hands. Is your saddle comfortable? It just looks like it might be a little small for you, which won't help your position. My RI always describes the controlled forward impulsion required to get a horse working on the bit as driving the horse upwards rather than forwards, IYKWIM, with your legs and your seat :wink:


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