# PLEASE READ -- The difference between animal rights and animal welfare



## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I have been criticized many times for my adamant stance against animal rights nuts (activists). I have explained many times that I am all for animal welfare but adamantly fight animal rights nuts every chance I get. Here is a link to an article in The Draft Horse Journal that explains exactly why I am so against animal rights advocates and their agenda. Please read, especially if you think animal rights is a good cause.

BITTER TASTE OF ANIMAL ACTIVISM IN THE BIG APPLE

Pass this on to anyone you know that might be confused about the 'real' agenda of animal right groups like the HSUS.

Cherie


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## Jake and Dai (Aug 15, 2008)

I saw a clip from Jimmy Fallon the other night, Liam Neeson said something to the effect of, if anyone knew anything, they'd know those carriage horses are not mis-treated.

Jimmy Fallon backs Liam Neeson's campaign to stop Mayor de Blasio's horse carriage ban - NY Daily News

Liam Neeson + Draft horses = swoon!!!

Sorry Cherie, slightly off topic but with this sort of star power, I wonder what is going to happen.


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## redpony (Apr 17, 2012)

What a great article. I loved the analogy of the predator and pray.The rest of the herd runs and the predator gets stronger and stronger with each kill. Soon,no one is safe!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

This....


> Animal rights proponents contend that animals have the same rights as humans, and *so it is inherently immoral and unethical to use animals for any human purpose under any circumstance*, including food, clothing, recreation, entertainment, work or medical research.


Let me guess, these people:

Do not eat meat
Do not wear leather products, shoes, coats, etc.
Do not have leather car seats
Do not use plastic bags as they contain animal fat
Do not drive a car or bicycle as rubber contains stearic acid (animal by-product)
Do not use Bio Fuels as they contain animal byproducts 
Do not use Fabric Softener as it contains Dihydrogenated tallow dimethyl ammonium chloride from animals
Do not use Shampoo as it contains over 20 animal byproducts
Do not use Toothpaste as it contains Glycerin an animal byproduct
Do not use Sugar (white or brown) as it is processed using Ash from animal bones
Do not have Dogs or Cats as their food contains animal byproducts
Do not take any type of Medicine as 75% of them contain some kind of animal byproduct.

Until these Animal Right Advocates give up the things on the above list and 100's of everything else not listed, they need to go back under their rock and quit being so self righteous :lol::lol:

.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

I saw that same Jimmy Fallon interview. I loved that Liam Neeson really pushed back on Fallon for backing the ban. Here is another article about the interview.
Liam Neeson speaks out against Mayor de Blasio's horse carriage ban - NY Daily News

Cherie


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## Paradise (Jun 28, 2012)

How are these animal rights people going to "rehome" all these animals they "rescue" from the evil hands of humans? Set them free?

Then we'll have 10 billion stray cats, 5 million stray dogs and millions of wild horses running around the country, which are already problems for the population. Some animals are meant to be cared for by humans. They are so far domesticated it would be cruelty to set them free.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Paradise said:


> How are these animal rights people going to "rehome" all these animals they "rescue" from the evil hands of humans?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's just the thing, they won't rehome any of them. They are all about noise and show but nothing about substance and actually doing what they say. I've had "discussions" with AR folks and at the time I had had 40 horses sort of dropped in my lap. 

When discussing the ban on slaughter I said to the group, "I have 40 horses that the owner doesn't want. He'll give them away free if that's what it takes, or he'll take them to slaughter, he really doesn't care. How many would you each like and where would you like them delivered?" and then the excuses started. 

"Oh no! I couldn't possibly take a horse! What are you crazy?" "I don't want a HORSE! They're too much work." Uh huh, so where exactly would you like to see these unwanted horses GO? Their owners won't feed them forever. 

I have no use or tolerance for AR people and groups. They are not going to actually get dirty caring for one of these smelly, dirty things.


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## Incitatus32 (Jan 5, 2013)

Those articles were really good! I'm all for animal welfare. 100% I will stand behind it and scream and shout till it shapes up. Activism though, well, that's a different story. It's a joke. 

I do not live in NY but from what I see and sometimes work with in the carriage driving industry here is nothing compared to the picture these activists create. Those horses are treated like royalty; they're the best kids horses and are just sweethearts all around. If they don't like working in the city then they go to work in the country doing private venues and giving demonstrations, they're given breaks and loved on and retire either to pasture, or get sold to families who are looking for kids horses, or elderly people looking for a driving horse. 

I've always told the activists who fight against horses being ridden/worked with to go shut up or do the mature thing and go work with horses for a few years. Do you have your bad apples? Sure. Name one sport or business that doesn't. I would much rather spend my time fighting for the animals who DON'T get basic care and are not treated well then fighting because my panties are in a knot about something I have no clue over. It's a lot like racing in my mind. Some horses are treated awful, and make me so mad at the industry I could stamp and scream and call fowl play over. But I've seen some really good race horse owners who made it pretty big and never compromised their horses well being throughout the races. It's not right for me to throw a tantrum which punishes everyone good and bad when I could be throwing a tantrum (or rocks, sticks, etc :twisted at the people who give the industry a bad rap. 

You go Cherie! I actually just posted it to my FB/printed it out and posted it on my roommates door. lol Somethings gonna hit the fan in 2 hours! :lol:


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

That is one of the problems.

Their solution is to stop breeding any animal for human use and kill all of the ones that are already here. They have 'put down' just about any animal they get their hands on saying that killing the animal (they call it 'humane euthanasia') is better than having it exploited. 

If you want to see what the HSUS is all about, Google 'HSUS Fraud'.


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## Sheepdog (Sep 25, 2011)

I dare anybody who thinks the NYC carriage horses have a bad deal to spend just one month working for the cart horse protection association here in South Africa. 
Cart Horse Protection Association
Those horses have a raw deal. But they are all their owners have, their only way to make a living. And they love them more than life itself.


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## Roperchick (Feb 1, 2010)

Word. (I would be more articulate but I've been up for 3 days on <5 hours sleep haha)

Needless to say loved the article and love Liam Neesen


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

It probably is about the real estate. I haven't seen a politician yet who backs anything merely for altruistic reasons.
Most working animals are healthier, better treated, and better mentally than their non-working counterparts (pets). Do they work hard -yes, but since when is having a job and purpose cruelty.


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## autumn rain (Sep 7, 2012)

So right Flytobecat. How is making a living cruel? Humans do it every day and are grateful to be productive. Am I being exploited because I have to work every day, instead of just playing? No. Balance is good for any living creature. Even in the wild animals must work for their daily meals.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

GREAT article!! Thanks for sharing. I only wish that 80-90% of our country's dogs and cats _were_ neutered and spayed, so that the ones without homes wouldn't suffer a short and miserable life.
I don't know WHEN America will wake up and ridicule this ridiculous "makes me feel good while I do NOTHING to solve the problems I protest against" attitude. The sun will surely shine that day.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Thank you Cherie, for the article and info. Its all part of our culture now, to just read a headline, join the bandwagon, and have no information about the actual facts if the case. Reminds me of the ban of horse slaughterhouses, and the mistaken idea that that is good for horses. 

It falls on us, people who know and live horses, to educate on their behalf.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnrewPL (Jun 3, 2012)

The animal rights crowd are little more than fascists. 
(I have known one for about 18 years, she is a nutcase and absolutely convinced he views are the only possible correct views, For examples of what I would call her mild psychosis, she thinks that while she drives along in her car she can project a mental bubble, like a force field, around her car to protect animals from being run over, driving past a cattle truck one day she stated the smell was the smell of fear (I thought it was cattle **** and ****, but what do I know, only worked in the cattle industry for most of my life) and she can hear trees screaming when they get cut down (yet she is a vegan; I guess carrots don’t scream when they get eaten)).
The problem as I see it with these people comes from a number of sources: firstly this postmodernist rubbish that we have been dealing with for a couple of decades where everyone’s reality, or truth, is just as valid as everyone else’s, even if they have no actual knowledge or experience in whatever they want to carry on about; tell them they are wrong and you are guilty of epistemological violence or some crap like that, so that then just reinforces their sense of justification and superiority. Then, every one of these people I have ever met has come from an urban middle class background and had pretty privileged upbringings, have never had to work hard for anything and are entirely divorced and insulated from the realities of where food, and about every other product they consume comes from, or the process that create them. They are almost always the last ones to ever think about how their privileged, almost always middle class western, lifestyle enslaves millions of other PEOPLE around the world, never mind animals, and they tend to have an utter disregard for the welfare of those people. 
When they buy their animal product free clothing, they usually don’t give a second thought to the poor person in East or South Asia slaving away in a sweatshop so that they can feel good about not wearing leather. Like the person I know, once, in a conversation, said that she thought the extermination of humanity would be good so there would be a nice animal paradise left. I see them, essentially, as utter morons.


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## equinesnfelines (Feb 1, 2014)

"GREAT article!! Thanks for sharing. I only wish that 80-90% of our country's dogs and cats _were_ neutered and spayed, so that the ones without homes wouldn't suffer a short and miserable life."

genesis 1:26-28....and that part about being fruitful and multiplying...well when i see some of what is doing that i shudder!!!!! in all seriousness i am all for the spay/neuter...all my cats are and any rescued get that done asap!!! God has not stopped making kitties--He does not need my help!!!

animal rights??? i agree lots of folks jump on that band wagon without a thought to what many humans worldwide go through so they may have what they do at the price they want!!!

i do believe in animal rights--the right to be fed, sheltered, vetted as needed if possible and the right to earn their keep--carriage horses are (for the most part) incredibly well kept--they are in the public's eye--only a fool would mistreat or starve one...but i bet most folks on this thread have seen or heard of a horse abused--laying odds it was not a carriage horse!!!


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I didn't read the article (I will later, right now I'm in the middle of The Bachelor o.o) but I will say... 

The animal rights people mean well. They want to do good. They don't want to see animals suffer. They are just... ill informed.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

HSUS needs disbanned. IT is using and abusing animals for money for the CEO.
I can see if someone wants to be vegan vegetarian octovarian and saying its cruel to slaughter for meat,
and well yes it is a way, but I am not giving up my steak or eggs. Plus eggs will not turn into chicks (unless there was a rooster around) .
I also dont currently raise animals for meat .I have in the past, and may in the future, but find it gross to have clean up where the beast was slaughtered. (gag) 
And if you go look at how they slaughter chickens you would gag . 
I do believe that there are humane ways to treat animals, pets to those intended for food.

Hsus and Peta need to go away along with these people who think owning animal and using an animal are cruel.. Next it will be attacks on the dogs for the handicapped. 
I have heard that using dogs for hunting is now not legal in CA.. What a bunch of road apples


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

stevenson said:


> I have heard that using dogs for hunting is now not legal in CA.. What a bunch of road apples


In part of our county (only part, due to the bizarre way NC handles hunting regions/laws), deer hunting with dogs is banned, but it has to do with safety, not animal welfare. Below is a short summary of the problem that was addressed in banning deer hunting with dogs in some areas of NC. It is still legal in my part of the county, but I am not comfortable at all when I'm driving down the road during deer hunting season and there are hunters shooting *across* the road.

_Increasing population density has made it impractical to safely hunt deer with dogs. Hunting dogs routinely trespass onto private property. Hunters loiter on county roads with loaded firearms and routinely shoot over roads and private property to kill the deer._


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## Tracer (Sep 16, 2012)

If animal rights activists had any idea, they'd quit whilst they were ahead. One day (hopefully) people everywhere will smarten up and get sick of their stupidity.

On the animal welfare front, more people need to be doing things like these guys, the Kiwi Care Team, are. I have endless respect for what they do. Same with charities like Prince Fluffy Kareem. 'Welfarists' are the only people I'll ever get behind.


Although I do enjoy looking at the PETA website to see what silly things they're up to xD


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## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

When I showed dogs, for a while PEta members were coming around and opening dog crates so the dogs could "be free". Several were hit by cars. Also, I was in a therapy dog organization, and at the yearly pet expo, we would dress our dogs up and ask for donations. A very well known actor who belonged to peta complained to the local spca about me. They knew me, and just laughed. Firstly, my dog ENJOYED getting dressed up (she would get excited and wag her tail when I brought out her costumes), and secondly - aswas mentioned earlier - if I ask her to "work" for an our or two I don't believe that is wrong. We givee our animals food,, shelter, medical attention, and love. Most people would jump at the chance of getting all of their needs taken care of by working only a few hours a week.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

It sounds like you need ID checks for everybody who attends, views especially, AND video surveillance...and a good attorney to sue the *******s who let the dogs out. =/


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

Painted horses.. I heard this from a breeder of Bird dogs. Nothing wrong with bird dogs, I know people who used dogs for pig hunts, the dogs are Bred for the specific ability for hunting.
There are trespass laws in effect and those are what need enforced.
and as for fools that hunt near roadsides,, well.. you just cant fix stupid.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

The best way to fight back is to destroy the credibility of the NYCLASS. Are they all vegetarians or are they able to justify eating meat from animals held in crowded holding pens. These carriage owner/operators are fully aware that the public wants to see well tended horses. NYCLASS is after a relatively small group. Shut them down and they'll be running around patting themselves on the back. They have no regard for throwing people out of work and if they are successful, I'll bet they haven't tho't about possible repercussions that could happen to either themselves or their families.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

From what I can find out, the first people that 'worked' with the Mayor to try to get him to 'save' the carriage horses had a vested interest in developing the prime real estate that the NY Carriage barns sit on. Does that resonate with anyone?

All of these causes are rooted in money some where. Then all the little 'do goodies' jump at the opportunity to have a cause they think is noble.

We had a County Fair one time that had a letter sent in to the editors of the main newspaper in the state and several things brought to the attention of the other AG teachers, leaders and the County Sheriff stating that people had seen horses and cattle being led with harsh chains on their head and that any chain on an animal was cruel the people should be stopped from this horrible practice immediately. I guess you know how far that got in Oklahoma, but they are still out there somewhere trying to stop all use of any animals.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Thanks for posting Cherie
These people are actually an animals worst enemy because they won't be happy until there are no animals left for them to feel sorry for


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