# Bad Trainer?



## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Just gonna say if a horse almost ran me over I don't care who the owner is it will get a good snack from me as well


----------



## GallopGirl9324 (Jul 27, 2015)

danicelia24 said:


> Just gonna say if a horse almost ran me over I don't care who the owner is it will get a good snack from me as well



Yes, but she really hit him. I agree with you, but she didn't need to use so much force to the point where he gets nervous around her.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Amount of force is difficult, but if a horse tried to run me over I would hit it as hard as I could, and it would still only feel like a love tap compared to being kicked by a pasture mate for doing the same thing.

I very much doubt your horse is traumatised. My trainer often stands where I am having trouble, and it is my job to make sure that Fergie doesn't get close to her.....so I ride her properly to avoid that happening


----------



## mkmurphy81 (May 8, 2015)

If my horse had a habit of refusing jumps, it would be traumatized by me every time it tried that. If a horse tried to run me over, it would be traumatized so it would never try that again. 

*standard disclaimer: Yes, I'm exaggerating. A well deserved smack won't traumatize a horse.


----------



## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

Totally agree with the others. 

You are probably more traumatized then the horse!


----------



## GallopGirl9324 (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm not over exaggerating this. Even some of the other girls at my barn noticed how spooked he gets around her. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem smacking my horse if he doesn't listen, but she literally clocked him in his face.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

He learned his lesson and will get over it. ONE deserved hit will not traumatize a horse. Beating on, or unfair punishment yes, but sounds like he's just being a drama queen and you are buying into it. Ignore him and see how long it lasts. He did something dangerous and got corrected for it, that is life. Some horses are wimps about it and/or spoiled and you should treat them exactly the same.

I'm not sure what you think an appropriate response for trampling people is?


----------



## GallopGirl9324 (Jul 27, 2015)

I would have been ok is she had smacked him in the stomach or something, but in the face?


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I would have smacked him where ever it landed, as hard as I could have, with whatever I could get my hands on at the moment. Had I been your trainer, I would also have gotten on that horse and given him a CTJ to the point he'd really think about running out again. I would not allow a horse to nearly run over me nor to develop the "habit" of running out on jumps and especially wouldn't do it just because the owner didn't think I ought to hit her horse. And if you complained, I would tell you that you no longer needed me for your trainer.


----------



## GallopGirl9324 (Jul 27, 2015)

Wow. Didn't realize I was being such a wimp. Honestly, thanks for all your opinions, but I will decide what to do with my horse. Not trying to be rude or mean, but we all have our own opinions. 

And also, I've only had my horse for about 2 months, and before that, he was used as a lesson horse, so I'm definitely not blaming myself for his bad habit of ducking out.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

GallopGirl9324 said:


> Wow. Didn't realize I was being such a wimp. Honestly, thanks for all your opinions, but I will decide what to do with my horse. Not trying to be rude or mean, but we all have our own opinions.


You are being a whimp, and maybe you need to toughen up maybe, yes your horse, but if his manners are so lacking that he will run someone over that needs to be addressed PDQ.



GallopGirl9324 said:


> And also, I've only had my horse for about 2 months, and before that, he was used as a lesson horse, so I'm definitely not blaming myself for his bad habit of ducking out.


No you can't blame yourself for his previous habit of ducking out, but now he is yours, and every time you let him off with it, it becomes your responsibility....make changes not excuses.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Like^^^^^^


----------



## semper (Apr 29, 2016)

GallopGirl9324 said:


> Wow. Didn't realize I was being such a wimp. Honestly, thanks for all your opinions, but I will decide what to do with my horse. Not trying to be rude or mean, but we all have our own opinions.
> 
> And also, I've only had my horse for about 2 months, and before that, he was used as a lesson horse, so I'm definitely not blaming myself for his bad habit of ducking out.




I agree with the others. If you are on the ground and a horse tries to run over you, you protect yourself however you can to prevent being injured. Try to remember how this trainer makes a living. If they were seriously hurt, how do the bills get paid and their horses worked? Would you be willing to pay a large enough weekly allowance to them in compensation for *your *horse, under *your *control, having injured them?


You may not have taught your horse to run out, but every time he runs out with you ,you are allowing it. That is the method with which he leant in the beginning. Someone (like you did) allowing him to run out. In his mind he avoided what he wanted to avoid, so the next time he did not like a jump, he pulled the same rabbit out of the hat.


I view a stop as very different to a run out. Runouts are a much more dishonest, learned behaviour.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

You have the instructor because she knows more than you do. 

So, she hit the horse on the face because it was going to run into her, you say it would have been all right if she hit him on his belly *but,* and it is a big *but,* had she hit him on his belly he would have already run through and past her and it would be sending him away from the jump. 

To hit a horse on the face takes timing, of not careful then you can easily damage your hand more than injuring the horse.

The answer is for *you* to stop allowing the horse to run out!

Odds are that he goes to one side most of the time. Put your whip in that hand, approach the fence slightly off centre away from the side he normally doves and, if he does run out be very fast to grab the rein on the opposite side and *turn him back towards the fence against the direction the ran out to. *

You need to be able to pull him up hard and fast, and as you turn him boot him hard with the opposite leg and even slap him with your whip.

As said this is a learned behaviour and he needs to learn that to do so is going to be very uncomfortable.


----------



## alsosusieq2 (Apr 30, 2016)

He'll get over it. Unfortunately it wasn't constructive in teaching him about the jumps. She could have set poles down in the shape of a ^ going up to the jump, it might help him. Ignore him acting up, she had a right, a horse bulldozing over someone isn't taken lightly!


----------



## ShirtHotTeez (Sep 23, 2014)

GallopGirl9324 said:


> Wow. Didn't realize I was being such a wimp. Honestly, thanks for all your opinions, but I will decide what to do with my horse. Not trying to be rude or mean, but we all have our own opinions.  ...


You came on here asking for advice and you got it. Everyone of the replies from very experienced riders and horse people. This comment just stuffs it back in their face...a bit rude don't you think?

A horse that is out of control is potentially dangerous. You did not have control since your horse ran over a person it would have seen standing there. And if you think it minor consider this. Most horses would have run out the other way to where there was a person standing, or just stopped.

If you know better. Don't ask. We try to help here and out time costs nothing. But we don't appreciate it being wasted with a verbal slap in the face.


----------



## Paintedponies1992 (Nov 17, 2013)

Like Like Like! ^^^


----------



## Tihannah (Apr 7, 2015)

I was in a lesson once where the horse spooked at a gunshot and tried to run through my trainer. She yanked his lead rope and then smacked him 3 times HARD. The respect was instantly gained and it snapped him out of his spook. She then lunged him while gunshots were still going off and he didn't jump again. The tiny woman on the ground was far more scary.

After that, I had one of my best lessons in the saddle with this horse, who I usually hated riding because he would jump at everything. That day he knew SHE was in charge and the only thing he needed to worry about. Your horse was not traumatized, he was corrected, and he needed it.


----------



## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

I haven't read all the responses, but I have to say one smack in the face is not enough to traumatize any horse, unless it is with a hammer. Your trainer had every right to protect themselves and you even thinking otherwise leads me to believe you may be a little immature about it. Your horse almost running over her threatened her health, livelihood, and in fact, quite possibly her life.


----------



## 6gun Kid (Feb 26, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I would have smacked him where ever it landed, as hard as I could have, with whatever I could get my hands on at the moment. Had I been your trainer, I would also have gotten on that horse and given him a CTJ to the point he'd really think about running out again. I would not allow a horse to nearly run over me nor to develop the "habit" of running out on jumps and especially wouldn't do it just because the owner didn't think I ought to hit her horse. And if you complained, I would tell you that you no longer needed me for your trainer.


 like! (now I have read all the responses)


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I am not surprised when people react to something like this and think it was a sin against theor horse. 

If only people would look at 'natural' horse behaviour, a mare punching a youngster with her teeth will do far more damage than a smack from a human, a bite will remove hair and occasionally flesh, kicks can be far worse in respect of injury, yet get a human hit a horse and it is considered wrong. 

I always look to nature, how would another horse deal with this (whatever) and react the same way, after a while it becomes automatic and rarely needed.


----------



## danicelia24 (Jul 16, 2013)

Foxhunter said:


> I am not surprised when people react to something like this and think it was a sin against theor horse.
> 
> If only people would look at 'natural' horse behaviour, a mare punching a youngster with her teeth will do far more damage than a smack from a human, a bite will remove hair and occasionally flesh, kicks can be far worse in respect of injury, yet get a human hit a horse and it is considered wrong.
> 
> I always look to nature, how would another horse deal with this (whatever) and react the same way, after a while it becomes automatic and rarely needed.


Actually I find this extremely relatable I just got a new horse and where he was before he was allowed to push people over and he was also the pasture boss. When I got him home he tried picking a fight with my alpha mare. He got quite a few teeth marks for that and realized he couldn't push my horses around he went from being on top to the bottom of the totem pole. When I started working with him he tried charging and rearing on me a couple good smacks with the whip i had in my hand stopped that really quick. Since then he has been a total dream.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Perfect example.


----------



## gypsygirl (Oct 15, 2009)

I believe that if a horse does something that could potentially kill me, he needs to feel like he's gonna die for the next few seconds. Horses are big and frankly can be very stupid. If your horse learns it can run people over to get out of jumping he could kill someone. Your trainer was not wrong to smack him. He's probably not used to someone getting after him so it is harder on him, but he will get over it. He needs to learn boundaries.


----------



## Jan1975 (Sep 7, 2015)

GallopGirl9324 said:


> And also, I've only had my horse for about 2 months, and before that, he was used as a lesson horse, so I'm definitely not blaming myself for his bad habit of ducking out.


Two months is plenty of time for him to have picked up a bad habit. I'm speaking from experience here...our new horse picked up a bad habit due to something we were doing wrong in less time than that. 

My trainer reminded me that my horse is 10x heavier than me and he needed good manners or he'd be dangerous. He's a SUPER nice horse, but of course they all test you from time to time. She also reminded me that in a herd, other horses would come down on each other a lot harder than we do to correct behaviors. She wasn't saying to beat him, but physically corrections are not mean when your horse is doing something potentially dangerous.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Yogiwick said:


> He learned his lesson and will get over it. ONE deserved hit will not traumatize a horse. *Beating on, or unfair punishment yes, but sounds like he's just being a drama queen and you are buying into it.* Ignore him and see how long it lasts. He did something dangerous and got corrected for it, that is life. Some horses are wimps about it and/or spoiled and you should treat them exactly the same.
> 
> I'm not sure what you think an appropriate response for trampling people is?


100000000000 times THIS!!!!!!


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

GallopGirl9324 said:


> I would have been ok is she had smacked him in the stomach or something, but in the face?


I do understand that but 2 things: you are putting human thoughts into this- horse not human. Also, when you're about to be trampled what are your options?

Another point is that this wasn't "oh Bubba's being bad" light slap to shoulder. This was extremely dangerous behavior by a spoiled horse (I don't know him, sure, but the running out on jumps barring a physical issue leads me to "spoiled" even if he is not all around. Taking spoiled to the next step by acting dangerous towards a human? He might as well have kicked her, in fact I almost would find that more forgivable.)

He did something SERIOUS and needed SERIOUS consequences. The reaction MUST be equal or (slightly) stronger to the offense. The offense was dangerous behavior, that's as bad as it gets short of him attacking her.

I would be FURIOUS if someone touched my horse without my permission but if my horse acted in a dangerous manner I would be horrified if they didn't!!

Another question- if he had hit her and she had been injured (or worse) what would your thought be?

Is a whack to the face so bad? Also remembering this is a horse and not a person? If she was the boss mare you'd better believe you'd be calling the vet by now.

Yes you can do what you want with your horse but you owe it to you, the horse, and the other people who need to deal with him to have a well behaved and respectful animal.

Reading as I type I see he was a lesson horse who learned bad habits. Been there done that. I ABSOLUTELY without knowing him believe that he IS SPOILED, AND that he is completely absolutely intentionally playing you with the drama queen act. If there's ONE thing a lesson horse knows it's how to do what he wants!!! You are buying him hook line and sinker and he knows it, he is good at playing games with you and you need to learn to stop letting him. I guarantee you this isn't the first time he's ever been smacked. Your trainer would have been wrong to NOT correct him appropriately. Keep her around, you could learn a lot.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

Really wish I could "like" your post, Yogi, but I'm on my phone.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

That's ok, I can't like anything either  Thanks though! (I mean "like")


----------



## lilredhorse (Feb 28, 2016)

I would really listen to the advice on here, that is if you are even reading what people are saying anymore. You now have a spoiled dangerous horse that you are pitying because he "is shying" from her. Chances are he does nothing when you aren't around and personally it sounds like you didn't like this trainer from the beginning and your friends are on board with this.


----------



## Paintedponies1992 (Nov 17, 2013)

I'd just like to add that I hope you have some sort of liability insurance encase your horse does end up hurting somebody down the road.


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

lilredhorse said:


> You now have a spoiled dangerous horse that you are pitying because he "is shying" from her. Chances are he does nothing when you aren't around


I agree with this. 

Watch an alpha mare put a young one in its place. She'll kick or bite the snot out of him/her, as needed. The young one will walk on egg shells for a day or two, because they'll realize that being stupid hurts, then they'll get over it. 

I would be willing to bet that whenever he acts scared of her when you're around, you immediately "comfort" him. "Oh, it's okay. I won't let her hurt you again" accompanied by petting and loving on. You're just reinforcing in his mind that there's reason to be upset.


----------



## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

my gelding tried to run me over. i smacked him in the face with his lead rope so fast he shot backwards and nearly fell over. then i RAN him backwards. this horse is HUGE and im sorry but if he runs me over im dead. i would rather beat the snot out of a 1300lb animal than said animal traple all 160lbs of me. I am NOT causing long term physical damage, im an teaching him trying to kill me is NOT ok and its going to hut ALOT less than what our other horse would teach him.

put it this way. if he ran into another horse like that he is likly to get a hoof to the face or shoulder,neck chest, leg where ever it lands. Mu punny wacks with a lead rope or my hand feel like nothing. If i kicked that animal with all that i can i could not physically cause perminat damage, he might MAYBE get a bruise. Now i dont EVER condone doing that UNLESS its 100% deserved. and running a person over, or attempting is one of the times its deserved. its up there with biting, kicking and rearing. If my horse (or any for that matter) try to physically harm me i want tham to think they are going to DIE. i want them to NEVER even THINK of doing that again. that being said my gelding gets that lesson at least 2 to 4 times a month so im obviously not doing that good of a job. he is also spooky at people who have never put a hand on him and give him carrots. he loves me but that might have more to do with the fact that i feed him lol!


----------



## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

^^ :iagree: :clap:

My best friend's mare bit me once. I ran her backward so fast she didn't have time to think. That horse has NEVER bitten me again, or even tried.

My gelding reared up and pawed at me one day when my friend and I were trying to clip his bridle path with a pair of clippers. He actually clipped my thigh with his hoof. I happened to have a crop dangling from my wrist (we had been working on some groundwork and since my friend had her clippers out, we went over to work on desensitizing him to them), so I laid into him. Smacked him across the chest as hard as I could repeatedly while I chased him backward a good 60 feet. My BO was sitting at the front of the barn watching. When we finally stopped, he hollered out "What happened?" I told him and he just nodded his head and said "Served the little **** right! Good girl!" My old BO was an old cowboy and didn't give out praise lightly.


----------



## Peachy (Nov 20, 2015)

I had some one up riding my horse for a bit and she was caught hitting both of my horses and the miniature with the head coller and lead rope with force she also use to bully my nervous tb which now I can't get a head coller on, she won't even set foot in her stables as she thinks she's going to get a beaten, the girl was caught allot of times by a lady that keeps her horse here but failed to tell me until my partner caught her him self she was told were to go. comes back here and it'll be her that's getting smacked about with a heavy head collar.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I've been run over and it did some lasting damage. I was trying to deworm a horse I had dewormed many times, and she was so good about it she would walk up and take the tube in her mouth so I could just aquirt the dewormer (or applesauce because she never knew which one was coming) in her mouth. I don't know what happened that day. I was putting the tube in her mouth and when I woke up, I was told I was on the ground with hoof prints up my back and a cracked skull. I actually have no recollection of what happened, I just remember starting to deworm her and then waking up in the back of an ambulance. I was out for about an hour, I'm told. I ended up with facial fractures, broken teeth (??? have no idea how all that happened), broken jaw and several broken ribs. And hoof prints. I now have as many crowns in my mouth as I do intact teeth. So not fun. Yes, I sold the horse.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I've been run over and it did some lasting damage. I was trying to deworm a horse I had dewormed many times, and she was so good about it she would walk up and take the tube in her mouth so I could just aquirt the dewormer (or applesauce because she never knew which one was coming) in her mouth. I don't know what happened that day. I was putting the tube in her mouth and when I woke up, I was told I was on the ground with hoof prints up my back and a cracked skull. I actually have no recollection of what happened, I just remember starting to deworm her and then waking up in the back of an ambulance. I was out for about an hour, I'm told. I ended up with facial fractures, broken teeth (??? have no idea how all that happened), broken jaw and several broken ribs. And hoof prints. I now have as many crowns in my mouth as I do intact teeth. So not fun. Yes, I sold the horse.


Simple answer to what happened is that you were stood facing the horse. She probably reared and caught you in the face, knocking you out and then she went over you.

I know, I have the T shirt since I did the same thing with a pony, I wasn't knocked out, only my teeth.

You should always stand facing the same way as the horse when worming them.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Foxhunter said:


> Simple answer to what happened is that you were stood facing the horse. She probably reared and caught you in the face, knocking you out and then she went over you.
> 
> I know, I have the T shirt since I did the same thing with a pony, I wasn't knocked out, only my teeth.
> 
> You should always stand facing the same way as the horse when worming them.


You're probably right Foxhunter. I don't remember for 2 reasons. 1) I have no memory of the incident and 2) It was back in 2004, so long since not part of recent memory. I just know when I got everything told to me I was shocked because this horse had NEVER acted silly before. I bred her, raised her, taught her everything and she was probably 4 years old at that time and had never offered to rear, spook, charge, bite, nothing. 

My husband wanted to shoot her, I got him to settle for selling to a trainer for a nominal fee. According to the trainer, she's never done another stupid thing, so who knows what set her off. I have lingering back problems and of course, tooth issues since nothing artificial is ever as good as what God gave you. So yeah, seeing a horse coming at me, I'll give a VERY strong correction, given enough time.


----------



## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> You're probably right Foxhunter. I don't remember for 2 reasons. 1) I have no memory of the incident and 2) It was back in 2004, so long since not part of recent memory. I just know when I got everything told to me I was shocked because this horse had NEVER acted silly before. I bred her, raised her, taught her everything and she was probably 4 years old at that time and had never offered to rear, spook, charge, bite, nothing.
> 
> *My husband wanted to shoot her*, I got him to settle for selling to a trainer for a nominal fee. According to the trainer, she's never done another stupid thing, so who knows what set her off. I have lingering back problems and of course, tooth issues since nothing artificial is ever as good as what God gave you. So yeah, seeing a horse coming at me, I'll give a VERY strong correction, given enough time.


Exactly. Better they THINK they are going to die without any permanent damage than severely injure or kill a PERSON then get killed themselves for being dangerous.

One whack, doesn't matter where, is not harmful, nor is it really that harmful mentally, doesn't come close to "thinking they are going to die" or what another horse would do to them.

I've given a couple good whacks, I GUARANTEE it hurts ME a lot worse than it hurts the horse!!


----------

