# Pssm?



## rraylutz210 (Jun 24, 2010)

Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy (PSSM) is a condition in horses where there is abnormal glycogen storage occurring in muscles resulting in the accumulation of excessive amounts of glycogen and an unusable polysaccharide. The accumulation of these compounds can result in symptoms that might range from reluctance to “move out," in its mildest form, to an acute episode of “tying up” or rhabdomyolysis. Another term for this condition is “Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy” or “EPSM.."

A horse im considering has this.. the owner says...
_
"Unique and Noble have both tested positive for PSSM. Both are totally non-symptomatic. PSSM is a very old thing (tying up) but there is now a test for it, developed a couple years ago. It is not life threatening at all but it is nice to know, just incase. The stats show that 33% of all QH have it so all other stock horse will be the same. They are on special diets (high fat), preventative measures. We have been totally honest since finding out that Predestined is n/P1...contacted all P foal owners to give them the option to test or not test."_

Should I be concerned? She says the filly is non-symptomatic, however is it worth my risk to spend the $10,000 on this filly?

Here's a picture of the little gal. She is thought to be a a chimera, formed from two embryos blending to form a single individual (also why the rare brindle color occcurs). She could have started as a pair of twins, one solid, one spotted, now blended into one horse. So she is very rare!


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

hmmmm has the filly herself been tested yet? i dont know.... its a gamble. I think 10grand is alot to pay for a foal. is it just because her color is "rare" . are you buying the filly just because of her color?? if so then i would pass, i dont think its worth the risk, just because of color. but thats me.


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## rraylutz210 (Jun 24, 2010)

Her color and her world following. She also has decent bloodlines, not top of the world but good. She has been tested and it is positive. I think after much thought I am going to pass on this little one. She is unique as her name describes, but she will not throw the same color and pssm is something I do not want to pass onto foals if it is indeed hereditary.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

wow $10,000 on a horse with a serious disease that is sometimes manageable and never curable, which usually progressively gets worse with time... Seriously? No WAY- Pass.


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## rraylutz210 (Jun 24, 2010)

yupp. lol
I was insane for even considering it. I passed already, her color is gorgeous and everyone and their brother wants her babies, but I am sure not after they find out about the disease. Poor lil thing.


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

o wow, ya definantly good idea to pass. i cant believe they are even asking $10,000!! for a horse that has a disease.


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## rraylutz210 (Jun 24, 2010)

i know!!! she didn't tell me about the disease until I made the offer either. Luckily no money was put down, geesh.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm glad you decided to not buy this foal.......she is likely non symptomatic due to her young age.......I bought a pmu colt at 3 months and at 3 years of age he developed symptoms......and I had him tested and because he has a moderate amount of muscle involved he is unrideable....a pasture pet at age 4....how sad is that.

People should not be breeding horses that carry the PSSM gene.....it is irresponsible.

Super Nova


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## rraylutz210 (Jun 24, 2010)

very much so.. I think it is completely wrong to breed horses with diseases such as PSSM or HYPP just because they are pretty. What a wasted life for that poor foal. Its such a shame. :-(


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## taylormadeappys (Nov 6, 2010)

Rachael...how dare you use pictures of Unique in this way! You are using her image without my permission....along with private emails without my permission. And your ignorance of PSSM is ridiculous. I told you about Unique's PSSM up front...before any deal was finalized. I recent that you are incinuating that I was less than honest about Unique's PSSM. We only found out about Predestined's PSSM a few months ago and we have been very up front about it since. I have contacted as many Predestined foal owners as possible about the issue and how to handle it. And your comments about Unique not having TOP breeding is showing your ignorance about Appaloosa breeding. Predestined is the TOP producing son of Maids Dream!!! Don't ever refer to Unique as a poor little foal and what a waste again. She may have a disease but it is being responsibly handled and will lead a long, happy, useful life.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

taylormadeappys said:


> Rachael...how dare you use pictures of Unique in this way! You are using her image without my permission....along with private emails without my permission. And your ignorance of PSSM is ridiculous. I told you about Unique's PSSM up front...before any deal was finalized. I recent that you are incinuating that I was less than honest about Unique's PSSM. We only found out about Predestined's PSSM a few months ago and we have been very up front about it since. I have contacted as many Predestined foal owners as possible about the issue and how to handle it. And your comments about Unique not having TOP breeding is showing your ignorance about Appaloosa breeding. Predestined is the TOP producing son of Maids Dream!!! Don't ever refer to Unique as a poor little foal and what a waste again. *She may have a disease but it is being responsibly handled and will lead a long, happy, useful life*.


Whether she leads a long and useful life is something that will only be determined with time.........I hope she is one of the lucky ones. My hope is now that you know this that you will not breed another possible PSSM foal.

Being responsible is not breeding any mare or stallion known to care this genic disorder.

Super Nova


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## taylormadeappys (Nov 6, 2010)

We DID NOT know that our stallion had PSSM until this summer. He is a 12 year old stallion with no issues and none of his foals had either until one filly was having problems. We IMMEDIATELY had him tested and were shocked that he was n/P1. There was NEVER any reason to suspect it until then. 

You know, PSSM has been around for hundreds of years...this is not a new thing. Horses have been bred that "tie up" all the time. If YOU have stock horses, I challenge you to have them tested. I think you will be shocked that 1/3 of your horses "statistically" will have it. We have been nothing but up front out our stallion having it....each foal is tested and buyers are informed...as was Rachael when we were talking. Think what you will but Unique's diet has been changed to protect her from issues....THAT'S what a responsible owner/breeder does when thrown a curve ball...


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## Fluffy Pony (May 2, 2010)

> You know, PSSM has been around for hundreds of years...this is not a new thing. Horses have been bred that "tie up" all the time. If YOU have stock horses, I challenge you to have them tested. I think you will be shocked that 1/3 of your horses "statistically" will have it. We have been nothing but up front out our stallion having it....each foal is tested and buyers are informed...as was Rachael when we were talking. *Think what you will but Unique's diet has been changed to protect her from issues....THAT'S what a responsible owner/breeder does when thrown a curve ball...*


Lets also try not to breed any more of these pssm horses to continue to cloud up horse lines with it ;-)


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## HaroldandMaude (Aug 9, 2009)

PSSM is nothing like HYPP. If is vey common in and has been recognized in many draft breeds for years but is just now being recognized in stock horses.

It is easily treated and fully REVERSIBLE through diet (high fat/fiber/low NSC)

Just google it for many links to accurate information

I personally would not breed a horse with it, but the issues are different than with other genetic defects.

It is irresponsible to compare it to HYPP


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

taylormadeappys said:


> We DID NOT know that our stallion had PSSM until this summer. He is a 12 year old stallion with no issues and none of his foals had either until one filly was having problems. We IMMEDIATELY had him tested and were shocked that he was n/P1. There was NEVER any reason to suspect it until then.
> 
> You know, PSSM has been around for hundreds of years...this is not a new thing. Horses have been bred that "tie up" all the time. If YOU have stock horses, I challenge you to have them tested. I think you will be shocked that 1/3 of your horses "statistically" will have it. We have been nothing but up front out our stallion having it....each foal is tested and buyers are informed...as was Rachael when we were talking. *Think what you will but Unique's diet has been changed to protect her from issues....THAT'S what a responsible owner/breeder does when thrown a curve ball..*.


Well it was responsible of you to have your stallion tested after one of his foals was found to have PSSM.......I think everyone should have stallions and mares tested for this........unfortunately the blood test that is performed can only pick up certian percent......that percent varies depending on who you talk to....the average is about 50 to 70% at best. My gelding had a muscle biopsy done in order to confirm PSSM as a blood test work failed to identify his particular case.

Changing a foals diet will not necessarily protect them from having sypmptoms of the disease......my guy was on a PSSM diet and while it helped with his intitial symptoms it has not made him rideable...the best he can manage is being a pasture pet......he also has some heart issues which are probably related to the disease. How well your foal does will be dependent on the severity of muscle involvement.

Now that you know that your stallion carries the gene the responsible thing would be to geld your stallion so he can't reproduce and continue to pass this gene on.

As an owner of a horse that has a PSSM horse it has been devasting knowning my guy will never reach his full potential........he is everything you would want in a horse....he has great conformation, unusal color (dun), tall but not too tall 16.1 hands, easy go and unflappable and a desire to please....and good looking to boot.

Super Nova


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

Just from an outsider's point of view, the OP never insinuated that you were less than honest about the diagnosis. I got the sense that you were very upfront with her. We didn't know that she didn't have the right to share the photo but IMO you came across as a person who shared all current info on this filly.

Harold and Maude- you are extremely misinformed on this disease. And YES this stallion should be castrated to avoid further breeding. This is a veterinary fact, not a "breeding" opinion. Breeders opinions are what have caused things like HYPP, SCID, and several other genetic disorders to persist in the populations.


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## HaroldandMaude (Aug 9, 2009)

With proper management 80% of horses with PSSM (types 1&2) go on to lead perfectly normal, healthly, useful lives

Not the case with HYPP

I have never seen a horse with PSSM just drop while being ridden (this also happens with HYPP)

I did say I wouldn't breed a horse with PSSM

I'm sorry if you think I'm misinformed but I stand by what I said. They are very diferrent issues


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## taylormadeappys (Nov 6, 2010)

Thank you HaroldNMaude....unfortunately, putting capital letters in front of some people makes them think that it is a death sentence. PSSM is FAR from that. It is a very treatable/manageable disease that is not 100% passed on to offspring. When I found out that Unique has it, I immediately went into "prevention mode". I changed her diet, per my vet, and all has been great. She never had a symptom before but I didn't want to take any chances. I still have to feed her...she just gets fed something different....no big deal.
Thank you again....


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

HaroldandMaude said:


> With proper management 80% of horses with PSSM (types 1&2) go on to lead perfectly normal, healthly, useful lives
> 
> Not the case with HYPP
> 
> ...


Well having it manageble in 80% of the cases is great but what about the other 20% of horses..........I think with the idenfication of the disease we now have a chance of removing it from the gene pool and we should try to do so.

H & M I am glad to hear you won't be breeding any horses that carry the PSSM gene.

Super Nova


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## taylormadeappys (Nov 6, 2010)

H&M misspoke....95% of horses with PSSM are manageable through diet. Also, 95% of all PSSM horses NEVER have a symptom. Like I said...this has been around for hundreds of years...now that it can be tested for and has "capital letters" to describe it, people think it's a death sentence....it is NOT! I have learned a lot in the past few months and the more I learn, the more I realize that these horses with PSSM are regular, normal horses and they should be treated that way.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

Yes, but why on earth would you persist on breeding any horse that carries a genetic disease that is identifiable, regardless of whether or not it CAN be controlled? Do you honestly think it is conscientious to continue putting horses with genetic diseases into a market already flooded with too many healthy horses, that do not require a special diet? Why not breed the healthy ones and let the ones with genetic issues by productive in other ways?


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## taylormadeappys (Nov 6, 2010)

No one ever said anything about breeding. THis is a 12 year old stallion who was diagnosed with PSSM this last summer...only after one of his daughters was diagnosed. None of his other foals has ever had an issue.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

HaroldandMaude said:


> With proper management 80% of horses with PSSM (types 1&2) go on to lead perfectly normal, healthly, useful lives
> 
> Not the case with HYPP
> 
> ...


It's not that *I* think you're misinformed, veterinarians will agree. I am a veterinary student and I spoke with one of our Internists about this as we just had a class on it and one of the girls at my barn recently had her mare diagnosed with it. It is a progressive disease, regardless of diet and management. It is not reversible, it is not completely manageable. Horses WILL progress and they WILL have detrimental effects from the disease. They may see some useful years but their careers are invariably cut short by the disease. Trying to make a case that you should not attempt to limit it in the population because you may be able to mitigate some of the effects is EXACTLY like comparing it to HYPP.


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## Peggysue (Mar 29, 2008)

Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy - CVM - UMEC, University of Minnesota


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## morganslittleleo (Nov 3, 2010)

People that breed horses or any other animal with a KNOWN gentic defect /disease dont matter what the disease or defect is they are the people that RUIN the horse economy because with there ignorance that make unusable animals wich end up going to slaughter or being starved/abused Taylormadeappys needs to look at the facts geld the stallion and get a new one thats disease free sorry if that makes anyone mad but with RESPONSIBLE breeding we could make horses worth money again .


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## Dijohn (Mar 17, 2011)

I dislike the thought that is going around that PSSM 1 (the genetic form) is nothing to worry about. While some horses may not be symptomatic, given the right conditions they will be. Many are never ridden just halted and the diet exercise routing is very strict, most people would find it hard to keep a horse this way AND lets not forget that they will pass the gene onto 50% of offspring.

Now as to 'I have never seen one just drop from PSSM" I can tell you I have and it was awful. I have never seem an HYPP horse, we do not allow them ito our country but I have had dealings with 2 horses that are N/p1 to PSSM 1 andwhile one does not displau symptoms, she is not under saddle yet and her diet is kept very strict. The other is under saddle and all the time he was commencing his training you knew something wasnt 'quite' right. He is one of the most pleasant horses you could wish to know but the day he went down in a heap when I was riding him, was so quick that is you were out the bush miles from anywhere you would be ina lot of trouble. He had a severe attack that day. Previous to this our vet had treated him for spontaneous colic several times (just when he was out in the paddock) we now know it was PSSM attack that he was having. We now have him on a very strict deit and his excercise routine is 6 days a week , (yes even when the weather is awful) . You can still see the muscle tremours if he gets tied when ridden but we seem to be getting things under control. But for how long, who knows. DONT EVER THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT SERIOUS. It is a genetic problem that can make your horse exercise intolant , shortan his useful life or at worst kill him. It really annoys me that breeders would deliberately breed this gene.


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## Super Nova (Apr 27, 2010)

HaroldandMaude said:


> PSSM is nothing like HYPP. If is vey common in and has been recognized in many draft breeds for years but is just now being recognized in stock horses.
> 
> It is easily treated and fully REVERSIBLE through diet (high fat/fiber/low NSC)
> 
> ...


PSSM is not reversible it is the horses genes it stays with them for life.....you may be able to manage the sypmtoms with a high fat/fiber/low NSC in a lot of cases but that will ulitmately depend on how much muscle involvement there is.

My guy is on borrowed time right now.......he started having problems at 3 and was diagnosed at 4.5 with a muscle biopsy......he is moderate with 10 to 20% of muscle involvement and is unrideable......he also has heart issues that we believe are associated with this disease but usually only if you have two copies of the gene......which he does not plus he has the gene that tends to do better than the one that has been able to be identified by blood work.........his heart rate climbs to over 60 when on pasture and his resting heart rate as a two year old was 32 and now as a 8 year old is 40 to 48.

I think is is sad that at lot of people look at this disease as "manageable".....you probably would not say that if you have gone through what Denny and I have gone through.

Super Nova


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

What a load of absolute rubbish. God the human race DISGUSTS me in what they will attempt to justify for their own money hungry sickening purposes. I assume you're still standing your stallion at stud instead of having even a speck of decency and having him gelded? After all, it's not "life threatening" is it?

My filly tied up on me last year, and let me tell you it's a MIRACLE she didn't go down on me. SHE COULD NOT FREAKING WALK. All it takes is ONE person to not mention it to the next owner, and now you've crippled someone for life because they thought their horse was being LAZY and just kept kicking it!

No, it's not like HYPP, so quick, it's OK!!!!!!!!!! :-x You people shouldn't own horses, it's a DISEASE and we should STRIVE to avoid it not attempt to JUSTIFY it.

Ugh.


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## apachiedragon (Apr 19, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> What a load of absolute rubbish. God the human race DISGUSTS me in what they will attempt to justify for their own money hungry sickening purposes. I assume you're still standing your stallion at stud instead of having even a speck of decency and having him gelded?


Yes, unfortunately, that is exactly what they are doing, according to this website. 
Predestined, Appaloosa Stallion at Stud in Roundup, Montana - Appaloosa Horses for Sale, Appaloosa Horse Classified Ads, Appaloosa Stallions at Stud, - Appaloosa Horse Club
And not only that, they conveniently forgot to mention the PSSM in the ad. It's a shame that people care more about the dollar signs than the animal's quality of life.


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## Dijohn (Mar 17, 2011)

MacabreMikoaj I understand your experience entirely, could you imagine someone who is a weekend rider buying a positive horse or an inexperienced child, flogging them to keep them going. It could be fatal for the horse and heavens knows what could happen to the human. 
I think this has been covered up and under played for years and until more people realize what it is they are dealing with and speak up the greedy breeders and breed societies will do nothing. 
It is almost sueable to breed, let alone sell a horse and not disclose that it has a genetic fault that needs special maintainance at best and a fault that may render him/her unable to perform . It is a muscle disease, the horse is born with it and it will probably cause him/her much pain during their life span and a premature retirement and death.
We should all be demanding the PSSM 1 status of all western breeds before purchasing or breeding


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