# Uxeter Kimberwick Bit... Opinions?



## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Being a straight bar bit, it can be used for direct reining but is better for neck reining. Depending on the width and height of the port, that reflects how much tongue relief and palate contact you will get. Being a curb bit, it is really not something that should be ridden on contact but rather with a loose rein.

I find it to be an odd "substitute" for your current tack. If one were going to go to a shanked bit, I think that a gag/elevator would be the more logical first choice....


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## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

I think I will stick with the snaffle!!! 
The lady who had suggested it had good results with her kimberwick. My mare does just fine in the snaffle, and I definitely don't want to cause her any harm.


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## Rule of Reason (Feb 11, 2010)

RoosHuman said:


> I think I will stick with the snaffle!!!
> The lady who had suggested it had good results with her kimberwick. My mare does just fine in the snaffle, and I definitely don't want to cause her any harm.


Ah, I see. You're in the "it ain't broke" category, so I think you're wise not to try to "fix it." A kimberwick is a very mild curb (and is not ridden with a loose rein) but if you're not having any problems with your horse, no need to go there. I have a hunch your trainer is more knowledgeable than this lady you met, or at the very least knows you and your horse better.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

The Uxeter is a combination of a snaffle & a curb. The action is very mild as the distance between the mouthpiece and the junction of the rein is so short the action is very mild.

The mouthpiece itself is usually a 'Cambridge' a very low port/liberty that allows room for the tongue. Because of its shape the bit sits more on the bars of the mouth, the curb chain holds the bit down in the mouth so that when the rein is used there is a mild action. 

It encourages the horse to lower its head more than in a snaffle and often means that you don't need the running martingale.

If you are using a running martingale to keep your horses head down then the Uxeter could be a good option. I personally don't like the effect the running martingale has as it applies uncomfortable pressure on the horses mouth.

The slots in the Uxeter allow for different levels of action. In the upper slot there is very little if any leverage, on the lower one the action is slightly stronger. The bit is milder than a Pelham and at times milder than a snaffle as it has no nutcracker action.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

This is what I use on my haflinger (only use the lower slot for hunting), she goes well in it as she can get a bit strong when hacking, but has a french link for schooling.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I've always thought of kimberwicks as english bits. I even used one driving my Belgian mare. The one I used was a little different. Had a broken mouth piece with a copper roller in the center.









I've got another horse I'm considering trying one out on because I have no idea about her training and background. I figured I could use the snaffle rein if that's all I needed but have the curb rein handy the first couple rides. I got her in November and she was a walking skeleton. She's going to have a long vacation healing and I kind of done with wrecks at this point in my life.

Now if I could only figure out where I stashed the horse sized one I'll be all set.


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## RoosHuman (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks guys for all of the advise! My lessons start back the week after new years. I will ask my instructor about them. 

My mare is fine without the martingale for hacks and trail rides. For stuff around the house we even use a hackamore and neck rein. Our trainer suggested we use the martingale when jumping courses to help with balance. She has fun when doing them and gets a little spunky. She definitely doesn't need anything too harsh, my main question is... Is a martingale more harsh than a kimberwick?

Thanks!


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

RoosHuman said:


> Thanks guys for all of the advise! My lessons start back the week after new years. I will ask my instructor about them.
> 
> My mare is fine without the martingale for hacks and trail rides. For stuff around the house we even use a hackamore and neck rein. Our trainer suggested we use the martingale when jumping courses to help with balance. She has fun when doing them and gets a little spunky. She definitely doesn't need anything too harsh, my main question is... Is a martingale more harsh than a kimberwick?
> 
> Thanks!


 
A running martingale is not harsh at all as it should only come into play when the horse raises it's head too high.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

The running martingale while only coming into action when the horse raises its head above the point of control does have quite a severe action on the horses mouth. 

It is at this point that the centre joint will come into contact with the roof of the mouth, will increase the nutcracker action by tightning across the bars of the mouth.

The Uxeter encourages the head down by the action on the poll, there is no nutcracker action (any curb bit with a joint in the middle is a waste of time as the moment the rein is applied the bit folds and the chain goes slack preventing any poll pressure.)


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

As the horse shouldn't raise it's head that high, the severe effect with a single jointed bit is a direct consequence of it's own action (personally i would never use a single jointed bit anway). My preference would be a french link and martingale with my TB, the kimberwick would be much too severe for her.


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

I recall what my one instructor told me about Kimberwicke bits years back. they are great bits if you want the horse to open his mouth and resist. 

Never owned a Kimberwicke in my life but after hearing that comment I started to watch horses with that bit.. and you know.. most of the time that trainer was right. 

I also find it interesting that I only owned a few bits. Started a lot fo horses and for starting there was either a mullen mouth snaffle, single jointed loose ring sweet iron snaffle or a thick snaffle that was egg butt. Loose ring snaffles should always be used with rubber bit guards.. and they are a pain. Still.. most horses liked starting on a sweet iron bit. This was after being broke in with a side pull or a rawhide core bosal. 

I used a martingale when I started out riding... but I stopped using them as I got further along. They can help a horse that throws his head when landing from a jump. Always use a running martingale with rubber reins stops to keep the rings back and away from the horse's mouth. Leave the martingale OFF if you do not have the rein stops.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

*Clava* - the moment the running martingale comes into action the bit will change its action as the martingale changes the angle the rein acts from.

Once upon a time the majority of horses went perfectly well in a single joint - the double joint is just another fashion fad as are crank nosebands, flash nosebands, Dutch gags etc! I've used a french link once and within 45 mins it had driven my TB to distraction and he then put his tongue over it. Then took a year to correct the problem. I break and school my youngsters and also the TB's that I get off the track in a Fulmer and drop - once the mouth is quiet and responsive the horses are then ridden in a plain cavesson.

Contrary to popular belief a single joint does not stick in the roof of the mouth! 
Next time you are with your horse have a closer look at how the bit actually lies in the horses mouth. The structure of the horses mouth is such that the horse holds the bit at a downwards angle. If the bit is fitting correctly the action is mostly on the corners of the mouth and with some pressure on the bars, the nutcracker effect is minimised by the width of the horses mouth and the contact of the rings against the side of the face. Also affecting the nutcracker effect is the thickness of the horses neck and the width apart of the riders hands. 
With a double joint the pressure on the bars is increased and includes direct pressure on the tongue as the reins are used. The distance between the two lower jawbones is minimal and not much more than the width of the centre link, with the joint from the bit to the link sitting quite tight against the jawbone. 









The general problem with many horses and the bits they require is over feeding, insufficient work and rushed schooling.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Elana - The *KIMBLEWICK* (not Kimberwicke) is the correct spelling for this bit it is named after the town *Kimble Wick* in Buckinghamshire UK where it originated from! I've seen this bit in use many times and it is the bit of choice that I make for my younger riders who are having problems with their ponies. Rarely have I ever seen the ponies going around with mouths open, in fact many go far better in the unjointed mouthpiece than the do when their young riders are hauling on the ponies mouth to try and stop. 

However I have mostly Fulmer snaffles in my collection of bits - rarely use anything else but have recently bought a sweet iron for my Clydesdale mare - I had her broken by a professional who used a Passoa on her - she now has a very fussy mouth. I hate getting old and having to allow others to break and school my horses. :-( I don't bounce like I used to!


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

This is an excellent website to explain bits of which the single jointed snaffle is well covered, do have a read ::: Sustainable Dressage - Tack & Auxillary Equipment - The Bridle & the Bit :::

and yes, sorry I spelt kimblewick wrong, old habits die hard and all through my youth I called it a kimberwick.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Clava said:


> This is an excellent website to explain bits of which the single jointed snaffle is well covered, do have a read ::: Sustainable Dressage - Tack & Auxillary Equipment - The Bridle & the Bit :::
> 
> and yes, sorry I spelt kimblewick wrong, old habits die hard and all through my youth I called it a kimberwick.


You are forgiven


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

The problem is not the bit but the rider. There is nothing wrong with a double bridle, kimberwick, pelham, elevator, gag, western curb, segunda, etc. if they are used properly. I have ridden my gelding (the mare.. not so much) in the HARSHEST of bits to see their effects, but I was properly educated on how to use them and I have independent light hands from my body and seat. He will still respond to me in a simple D-ring snaffle, and I have done no damage to him or made him dull to the bit by doing it. 

The problem with changing bits comes when people are not (choose not to be, or that person who suggests the bit fails to educate) educated in how to use the bit. They create mouth sour horses. Another problem with training in America is bitting up the problem pony for the inexperienced rider. If the rider cannot control (and get a proper response) the pony in a plain (or mild variation) SNAFFLE, then that rider needs to work on a variety of things before they move up to any sort of curb action bits. 

This rant is not directed at the OP, but people in general.
Match the bit to the rider FIRST, and the horse SECOND.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

drop_your_reins said:


> Match the bit to the rider FIRST, and the horse SECOND.


and not consider mouth conformation? fat tongues, no space, lots of space... the bit must be matched to the horse first and what they go best in, but any rider must have independant hands as the mouth should never be used to balance with.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

A *Kimblewick*, *Kimberwicke* or *Kimberwick* is a type of bit used on a horse, and named after the English town of Kimblewick where it was first made.

All spellings apply :0)

I use a Kimberwick on Hunter and have been trained on how to use it properly.
Its funny that I saw that it would be good for neck reining. If I hold my reins up too high (like I used to when I would neck rein) my trainer told me that we would switch to a different bit as the kimberwick is meant to be direct rein, holding the reins lower.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Hunter65 said:


> A *Kimblewick*, *Kimberwicke* or *Kimberwick* is a type of bit used on a horse, and named after the English town of Kimblewick where it was first made.
> 
> All spellings apply :0)
> 
> ...


The only reason those other spellings are include is because the Americans have spelt it incorrectly for a number of years and these have been included to allow the search engine to pick up on a persons search.

The correct spelling is KIIMBLEWICK.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

The horse is considered second.. Obviously you need a bit that fits the horse (size, palate, tongue), a bit that the horse will tolerate (for example, I am capable in riding in a double bridle, but my mare would flip on her back if I tried to on her), a bit that the horse likes.. Yes, all of these things are considered after you realize what the rider is capable of riding in. Most school ponies will go fine in a snaffle (many in stronger, more complex bits), and most beginners cannot handle anything more than a snaffle because their hands are NOT INDEPENDENT yet. 
What I am opposed to is the people (BOs/Instructors) who set little lucy up with a headstrong pony for a quick buck.. they have the pony in a snaffle at first, but lucy keeps getting unseated and even falls off a couple times because the pony is unruly.. so they move up to a bit (kimberwick) that lucy doesn't understand and isn't ready for yet just so she has more control over her pony.. Lucy uses her hands the way she was in the snaffle (yanking on the pony everytime it tries to toss its head, and a fairly strong rein to slow it down) and eventually the pony loses respect for the kimberwick, and they decide to try a stronger kimberwick or they switch to a wire twisted snaffle... and it goes on and on until the poor pony doesn't have a mouth left. 

I've seen it a million times. I would never put a bit on a horse that:
A. the horse cannot mentally/physically handle
B. doesn't fit the horse properly
C. isn't the right size (I have used bits that are 1/4-1/2" too big a couple times to gauge if my horse would like that mouthpiece, but only in trial and error- and NEVER a bit that is too small) 
D. doesn't serve the purpose I am trying to achieve
E. is too strong for the rider I am putting on the horse 

but those are all things I consider *after evaluating the RIDER* and deciding what bit the rider can effectively use. If the rider is riding in a more complex bit incorrectly, I will move them back down to the snaffle for a little while and evaluate if they can effectively ride a horse in a snaffle before bumping them back up to a more complex bit. Generally I choose a "class" of bits for the rider (Snaffles, Kimberwicks/Pelhams, Double Bridles, Specialty [Gags/Elevators]) and ensure that the horse is comfortable going in that "class," then I customize the bit according to the horse's preferences (rollers, number of breaks, copper, size, thickness etc.).. The only time I would use small wire twisted snaffles with a horse is if I feel the rider can effectively use the bit without wearing on the horse's mouth- for my own purposes .. very harsh snaffles go into "specialty" bits.. 

I put a great deal of thought in what the horse needs out of a bit, but yes the rider should always be thought of first... Those are the hands that will be tugging on the horse's mouth..


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

I simply never allow anyone to ride my horses or a child I am teachig to have reins unless they can demonstrate light gentle hands regardless of the bit the horse is ridden in. No horse should ever have it's mouth "tugged" on randomly by any bit at all. The rider needs to be taught about the horse s/he is riding and what is required of it, a novice should no more be allowed reins than an experienced rider if they cannot demonstate independant hands. I would never use a twisted thin snaffle...ever, as there would never be any need.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Like I said, I have used very harsh bits on my gelding (who now goes quite happily in a thick german link loose ring snaffle for walk trotters) when showing (jumping) for control.. we've used a full cheek double (finely) twisted wire with copper mouth, which was quite effective for SUBTLE cues in the middle of a hunter course (when he thought he was supposed to be a jumper). No damage came to my horse from using such a harsh bit, but I have seen the damage these bits can do to other horses.. Which is why I match the bit the rider first and then the horse. 

How are you going to teach a beginner to steer and stop without letting them have reins? Of course their going to be tugging when they first start out. Whether they are 8 or 48 year old beginners, their first movements in the reins are going to be rough and uncoordinated.. The only fair option to the horse is to use a very gentle simple bit (that you have matched to the rider first, obviously). 

Light supple hands come with BALANCE. Independence of aids comes with balance and muscle memory (time in the saddle, time spent using your aids effectively). Beginners, even novice riders will not have the proper balance and muscle memory if they are not taught properly. 

The fact of the matter is, the hands are often the most neglected when teaching new people to ride.. sure they say pull back on your reins and say WOAH to halt, but they are not taught to properly use the bit until much later in their careers (usually). Some people consider themselves novices, intermediate riders, or even advanced horsemen and do not thoroughly understand bits and using them effectively. And sometimes these are the people teaching others how to ride. 

To me its just like your leg. When you first start out, you find yourself kicking more and rarely "squeezing" because you do not have adequate muscles or the knowledge to squeeze (everyone says "kick him to move forward"). Eventually you build up muscle and your kicking is corrected ("tap him, squeeze him," etc.).. Eventually the whole rider is one who uses their aids as lightly but effectively as possible. Until you get to that point (that rider, in theory, could use any bit effectively, lightly) you need to match the rider to the bit first.


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## drop_your_reins (Nov 4, 2007)

Clava said:


> I simply never allow anyone to ride my horses or a child I am teachig to have reins unless they can demonstrate light gentle hands regardless of the bit the horse is ridden in. No horse should ever have it's mouth "tugged" on randomly by any bit at all. The rider needs to be taught about the horse s/he is riding and what is required of it, a novice should no more be allowed reins than an experienced rider if they cannot demonstate independant hands. I would never use a twisted thin snaffle...ever, as there would never be any need.


Are you saying that any rider should be able to ride in any bit (except supposed "harsh" bits)? 
How are you supposed to teach someone to use the reins lightly and gently without letting them have reins? What if they are not balanced enough to stay in the saddle? (They will presumably hold onto the saddle, and what will that teach in the way of reins?)
The fact is, many riders are not taught to keep independent aids.. Many riders are extremely scared and timid, many riders have had bad experiences, bad trainers, etc. none of which is their fault. So you are going to take that timid rider who had a bad trainer, plop them on a horse and take their reins (and their sense of security) away from them? 

I don't really see what that would accomplish.. I have had my reins taken away from me plenty of times, and it was always for balance issues.. and I was riding for about 8 years at the time.. I can only imagine how someone might react who is only a year to three years in.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

All my students learn to ride on the lunge with no reins, yes they hold the saddle initially but once they are able to balance reasonably well then they are encouraged to let go, first with one hand then with both. A secure balanced seat is very important to teach - never ever let the rider think that the reins will save them - they go wherever the rider goes! lol.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

"the Americans" ? wow


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

natisha said:


> "the Americans" ? wow


If you are refering to my comment - America is the only country that refers to the Kimblewick as a Kimberwick! Everywhere else in the world its a Kimblewick.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Tnavas said:


> (any curb bit with a joint in the middle is a waste of time as the moment the rein is applied the bit folds and the chain goes slack preventing any poll pressure.)


This is not true. If you're talking in terms of direct reining with the other side slack, sure. But if you are pulling straight back or evenly with both reins, you'll still get the rotation and poll pressure. Though to be honest, with most curbs--Kimberwick included--poll pressure is pretty negligible, anyway. The strong/different effect comes from the leveraging of the curb chain and the rotation of the mouthpiece into the tongue and bars. Not a waste of time at all; only a different action.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Tnavas said:


> If you are refering to my comment - America is the only country that refers to the Kimblewick as a Kimberwick! Everywhere else in the world its a Kimblewick.



Dang Americans and all of our crappy spelling. :-x 

Seriously, though, what does it matter? Tossing a fit about it here isn't going to accomplish anything. We are still going to call it a kimberwicke and spell it as such. A post or two on a forum is not going to change that, especially when its not the commonly accepted term here and its listed as such in stores as well. Its not like its the first thing with a different spelling. At least it still means the same, quite a few terms don't!


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> This is not true. If you're talking in terms of direct reining with the other side slack, sure. But if you are pulling straight back or evenly with both reins, you'll still get the rotation and poll pressure. Though to be honest, with most curbs--Kimberwick included--poll pressure is pretty negligible, anyway. The strong/different effect comes from the leveraging of the curb chain and the rotation of the mouthpiece into the tongue and bars. Not a waste of time at all; only a different action.


Bubba13 you need to go an examine your bit more closely when in action!:wink:

When the reins are used the shanks tilt - top forward, bottom towards the rider. The curbchain is the fulcrum point where the bit rotates. As the unjointed bit rotates the chain tightens and holds the mouthpiece firmly against the lower jaw. As the lower jaw cannot give anymore then the pressure from the tilt causes pressure to be exerted on the poll.

When you use a jointed bit with a curbchain the chain loosens as the rider uses the reins, the bit folds and because it is not being held down in the mouth there can be no poll pressure. Should the bit ride up in the mouth and hit the molar teeth then you may get some poll pressure.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Cat said:


> Dang Americans and all of our crappy spelling. :-x
> 
> Seriously, though, what does it matter? Tossing a fit about it here isn't going to accomplish anything. We are still going to call it a kimberwicke and spell it as such. A post or two on a forum is not going to change that, especially when its not the commonly accepted term here and its listed as such in stores as well. Its not like its the first thing with a different spelling. At least it still means the same, quite a few terms don't!


You guys would be the first to pack a sad if us brits called something of yours by the wrong name! and probebly sue us to boot! :lol::wink::lol:


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Tnavas said:


> Bubba13 you need to go an examine your bit more closely when in action!:wink:
> 
> When the reins are used the shanks tilt - top forward, bottom towards the rider. The curbchain is the fulcrum point where the bit rotates. As the unjointed bit rotates the chain tightens and holds the mouthpiece firmly against the lower jaw. As the lower jaw cannot give anymore then the pressure from the tilt causes pressure to be exerted on the poll.
> 
> When you use a jointed bit with a curbchain the chain loosens as the rider uses the reins, the bit folds and because it is not being held down in the mouth there can be no poll pressure. Should the bit ride up in the mouth and hit the molar teeth then you may get some poll pressure.


I am well aware of the mechanics of the curb bit, broken or unbroken, and I don't have a clue what you are talking about. The curb chain tightens when you pull back on the reins of ANY curb bit, providing the same fulcrum you are talking about, regardless of mouthpiece. And as the shank tilts, you will get minimal, but not significant, poll pressure.

Not the best video, but all I have, showing two single-jointed curb bits in action:


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> I am well aware of the mechanics of the curb bit, broken or unbroken, and I don't have a clue what you are talking about. The curb chain tightens when you pull back on the reins of ANY curb bit, providing the same fulcrum you are talking about, regardless of mouthpiece. And as the shank tilts, you will get minimal, but not significant, poll pressure.
> 
> Not the best video, but all I have, showing two single-jointed curb bits in action:
> 
> A Bit About Bits: Argentine Snaffles and Tom Thumbs, Part II - YouTube


Unfortunately we are not discussing a western bit but an Uxeter Kimblewick. 







Where the curb chain sits in a totally different area - right in the chin groove and is done up a lot tighter than shown. When you use both reins on a jointed bit the bit folds and the distance between the rings narrows - therefore the curb chan loosens taking away the action that allows the bit to generate poll pressure.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Back Pedaling a bit, aren't you? You are the one who said ANY curb with a joint in the middle is a waste. 

Now if you are specifically talking Kimberwickes - there is so little shank length on them that the poll pressure even on a low-port solid bar is minute at best and you would really have to be cranking on it for it to engage. 

And really? Sue you over a misspelled word? Love the stereotyping.


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## wild_spot (Jan 30, 2008)

Not just the 'Americans' - everyone I know here in Australia calls them a Kimberwick also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

Cat said:


> Back Pedaling a bit, aren't you? You are the one who said ANY curb with a joint in the middle is a waste.
> 
> Now if you are specifically talking Kimberwickes - there is so little shank length on them that the poll pressure even on a low-port solid bar is minute at best and you would really have to be cranking on it for it to engage.
> 
> And really? Sue you over a misspelled word? Love the stereotyping.


Unfortunately its how many see the Americans! We get a lot og Judge Judy here on TV and sit here laughing at the rediculousness of it all. :wink:

Not back peddling at all - a jointed curb bit will lose its poll action when both reins are used. I have nothing to do with Western type bits - we certainly don't fit a curb as high as in the video clip or have the curb chain so high or loose. It sits in the chin groove - see pic below


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

wild_spot said:


> Not just the 'Americans' - everyone I know here in Australia calls them a Kimberwick also.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's interesting wil_spot - first time I've heard of Australians calling them Kimberwicks. A shame though as it is rather an insult to the town that designed them.


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## Cat (Jul 26, 2008)

Tnavas said:


> Unfortunately its how many see the Americans! We get a lot og Judge Judy here on TV and sit here laughing at the rediculousness of it all. :wink:


Um yeah - if we watch Judge Judy we laugh too. They are meant to be ridiculous - that is why they are on that show. Wouldn't make a good show otherwise. However, that is not your typical American. That would be like one of us taking the Brit Comedy we can sometimes see here and taking it for fact that all are like that. Pure ignorance.




> Not back peddling at all - a jointed curb bit will lose its poll action when both reins are used. I have nothing to do with Western type bits - we certainly don't fit a curb as high as in the video clip or have the curb chain so high or loose. It sits in the chin groove - see pic below


I know how the fit is a bit different - I use both a kimberwicke and pelham on my horse. However the physical concept is still the same - no matter if the curb is English or Western.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Tnavas said:


> Not back peddling at all - a jointed curb bit will lose its poll action when both reins are used. I have nothing to do with Western type bits - we certainly don't fit a curb as high as in the video clip or have the curb chain so high or loose. It sits in the chin groove - see pic below


The Argentine snaffle--the second bit in the video--_is_ an American/Western Pelham. Same effect. Pulling back on both (or either) rein(s) tightens the curb chain and introduces minimal poll pressure.










If you want more poll pressure with a curb bit, you need to go to something extreme, like a Wonder bit with a lot of gag.










I think it explains in the video, but I don't recall for certain, but the curb chain on the black bit was far too loose, while the one on the Argentine was adjusted correctly. I've never tied by the curb ring as a true Pelham is designed to be done, but I can't imagine that would make any difference. As the reins are pulled, the bit _must_ rotate, and the curb chain _must_ tighten, and by necessity the bridle itself must tighten, as well. But if you are introducing measurable poll pressure with any curb except a gag (and, well, even with a gag if your curb chain is adjusted properly), as Cat said, you are doing something seriously wrong and pulling back way too hard. If it takes that much pressure to make your horse respond, it's time to go back to basics.


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## Tnavas (Nov 29, 2011)

I can see with the Western bits that the curb pressure will still exist - this could be because the curb sits higher and tighter than on an english bit. 

Think we need to agree to disagree on this - I have no access to a Western bit to study. Thanks for the pics.


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Tnavas said:


> All my students learn to ride on the lunge with no reins, yes they hold the saddle initially but once they are able to balance reasonably well then they are encouraged to let go, first with one hand then with both. A secure balanced seat is very important to teach - never ever let the rider think that the reins will save them - they go wherever the rider goes! lol.


Yes, Drop the reins this is what I do ^^^

I never let the rider "hang on" to the reins and therefore the bit, they are not allowed reins until they can balance perfectly without them, I won't let an unbalanced rider ride have a "mild" bit just because they can't balance yet, it is not fair on the horse. Most horses are happy in one or two bits and there is never any need to change the horse's set up to allow for the rider, the horses's welfare comes first and the rider must come up to the horse's standards (of not hanging on the mouth) before riding, I would n't change a bit to allow for a poor rider, but I would let a learner ride with a head collar and rope attached as reins if that helped them to learn to hold reins, but still on the lunge. Balance must be taught before all things.

With regards to a jointed kimblewick, I have always been told that it does reduce the curb action, and certainly my jointed pelham does.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Tnavas said:


> If you are refering to my comment - America is the only country that refers to the Kimblewick as a Kimberwick! Everywhere else in the world its a Kimblewick.



I am not in the US and I have always known it as a kimberwick


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Hunter65 said:


> I am not in the US and I have always known it as a kimberwick


Language evolves, what once was not correct becomes correct, as I use both (but my liveries / friends do correct me for calling it a kimberwick, I really don't think it matters that much anymore, but they do.) We all know which bit we are refering to in this case 

I spell "grey" with an e....and "colour" with a u, but generally we can all understand each other which I think is a good thing.


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Clava said:


> Language evolves, what once was not correct becomes correct, as I use both (but my liveries / friends do correct me for calling it a kimberwick, I really don't think it matters that much anymore, but they do.) We all know which bit we are refering to in this case
> 
> I spell "grey" with an e....and "colour" with a u, but generally we can all understand each other which I think is a good thing.



I spell colour with a u too


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## Clava (Nov 9, 2010)

Hunter65 said:


> I spell colour with a u too


:lol: - how did that happen


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## Hunter65 (Aug 19, 2009)

Clava said:


> :lol: - how did that happen



hahahahahahaha I live in Canada


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