# Does anyone else find super religious people to be hypocrites?



## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

> We are Christian and believe in God, just do not think that you have to pay and go to a certain building in order communicate with God.


as has been said, "going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than being in a garage makes you a car". 

religious zealots of any flavor are among the nastiest, most dishonest and hypocritical people I have ever met
they are intolerant and while they may meet the bare stqndards of religious law, they sure arent following the spirit of it. Most religions teach us how to be better human beings and good neighbors..I think some people missed the memo, but sure feel justified taking perceived religious inadequecies out on the rest of us.

PS, my mom used to tell me that jehovahs witnesses, jews, mormons..well basically everyone was going to hell for improper worship, where theyd be tortured forever. This while she spied on the neighbors through the blinds all day, sipping coffee. Oh and Im going to hell for kissing a girl at a club
But not her for fornication, gluttony, sloth, any number of sins I could probably find that she's committed. not to mention being racist! No, she has earned her place in heaven like a good and pious woman.... X_X

ok end rant but really I know a ton of people like that and no matter the flavor of your god, they dont generally approve of @$$ hattery....


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## gigem88 (May 10, 2011)

Well, you do have some bad examples to pull from! However, you miss the chance of praising God as a group or family when you don't go to church. He does tend to want people to gather in His name. You can't change people but you can pray for them. And, if they're doing bad things, then church is definitely the place for them to be.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I am a Christian and used the same excuse when I didn't attend church regularly. I saw so many deacons at the liquor store on the way home from church and thought they were such hypocrites and I couldn't be a part of that. Then realized I was being a hypocrite for for seeing the splinter in their eye without seeing the log in my own. We can find bad examples in anything we don't want to accept if we go over it long enough with a fine tooth comb.

I realized going to church is for me to hear the word so I can have a better relationship with my savoir and to congregate with other Christians as the bible tells us to. I am not a poster child for Christianity and will never claim to be, but I am growing in my faith. I do not look down on anyone as if I am better for being in church and do not try to do his job in judging others.

I am to love as I love myself, even as hard as it can be sometimes. Something else to ponder on is that every time you talk about not going to church because someone judged you you are judging them and becoming a hypocrite yourself. Using them as an excuse not to go to church to hear the word you are simply making excuses to cover a deeper reason behind not going. Most _believers_ do not go to church because they don't like to accept the fact they need to give up control of their life. This scares them and even more is admitting it scares them. 

I feel bad that so many _believers_ go through the stall game like I did by using the hypocrite excuse for not going to church. I finally got back in church regularly and look forward to Sunday morning. Yes, I still see some of the traits in people at this church and in the mirror, but also see the fact that as long as I'm at home complaining about it then I'm not in the church learning how to be a better steward of the word to change that. We are called to hold each other accountable for our actions and our growth in the word so I long for my fellow christian to step up properly and point out my errors so I can work on correcting it.

I hope this gives you a different outlook on the matter at hand as I have tried my best not to get caught up in a lot of the religious threads. For some reason I felt I had a positive note that I could add here.

Hope your day improves and you are able to enjoy the beauty in the world around you instead of just the soured parts that may stick out like a sore thumb. 

Maybe you could do one thing towards helping me change how people seek the bad in Christianity. Look at those bad examples you notice easily and remember that there is someone in that church that is following the word, seek them out for guidance and examples rather than those who do not. 

We are told that a christian is defined by the fruit they produce. If you are not seeing healthy and bountiful fruit in someone's life then they are either still learning what it is to be a steward or are not a Christian and only there for a social status. You can not use the as a ruler for Christians since they aren't Christians. Hope that makes gives you a better separation of the people you see in church.

I apologize for making this so long as it was not my intention. I'll go back to my sideline..


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Thanks Demonwolf-I am glad I am not the only one. I will say, however, that my horse friends who are in a structured religion tend to practice what they preach and are delightful, sort of like you-Roaddy....and not at all "in your face" about it.......as opposed to my brother who has nothing to do with one of his own sons because he is remarried and drinks beer.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes. Period.

I have found that some of the most devout Christians/catholics are the worst hypocrits.

my grandpa is one of them. He will rant and rave about how two people should be married to live together and blah blah blah. But in his own house, his grandsons...ex-wife....is living there with her new boyfriend.

wow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Unfortunately people are people . For some, going to church on Sunday is just what is done..they grew up with it and it is just that one box to check off on the schedule for Sunday. 

It has been a LONG time since i have been to church on a regular basis. I try to hit the big ones, Christmas (love the candlelight service at midnight on Christmas Eve), Good Friday and Easter, but while I was on active duty it was very difficult to keep changing churches. Even when I tried to get into a church here they said I couldn't "join" unless I had proof of baptism and confirmation; I could go to services but I couldn't be a registered member of the church. Sounded strange to me as I would imagine the idea is to get people in...what would it matter if they had not been baptized or confirmed? Wouldn't they WANT to bring someone into the fold...so to speak? I worship in my own way and live my life well. I can do without the politics of the church which to me is also something to be wary of in any case..religion and worship should not be a political issue either in the church or in the government.

The husband of a friend of mine is Presbyterian. That church is so strange they actually station guards at the doors of the church to make sure no one outside the registered congregation can enter. Sure, if you are "sponsored" by a member they will let you in but still, I heard that and went...huh? Talk about hypocrisy. OK, security issues being what they are I could understand if they were in a bad area but they are in a very safe and comfortable area.


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## loveduffy (Dec 22, 2011)

God will only ask you to do some thing in his name he will never force you to do it that is free will but at the end you will be counting for what you have done that is how it works you could tell other this -- It is also how you treat other


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Oh, I am sooo with you on this one!!! I'd say most, NOT all, like 95% of the people that I know closely who attend church religiously (haha, I made a funny:lol are the most narrow minded, self-righteous, frustrating people that I know. Ahhhemm, my husbands family is by far the worst that I've met so far.

My MIL, had an affair with a married man which resulted in my husband. Yet she is the worst for judging how people live their lives. EVERYTHING she does is "in the name and path of God". Don't even get me started on his dad's side (MIL married and he adopted hubby), it's to the point that I pretty much refuse to participate in their family functions. In the past it has resulted in being belittled, ridiculed, and chastised for the way I live my life and the beliefs that are important to me and those that I want my children to grow up with (I.e. working full-time as a mother of 2, acceptance of other religions, belief that ministry to the point of elimination of ancient religions is wrong, etc.) Ironically enough, hubby's uncle (who's a pastor!!!) is the most open minded of all of them.

What I don't understand to this day, and no one has been able to explain to me is how a church, any church that I know of, teaches love your neighbor, do unto others as they should do unto you, all of that. Yet, they are the FIRST to look down on people who don't agree with their religious beliefs or don't go to their church. Why is that? Why can't people accept that most people believe in a higher power (be it God, Alah, Buddha, Mohammed, Science, the stars, Ra, whatever) it's just how they choose to honor that higher power that is different?

The way I look at it, all roads lead to the same destination, the scenery is just different along the way.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Hypocrites and Psychopaths, yup...


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

Religion can create self-righteousness,pride and judgement.

Relationship should create humility and grace.

To so many people "religion" is "what they do" ..

While a relationship with the Lord should be "how we live" ..

imo


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

If anyone has seen the movie "Religulous" with Bill Mahr, it describes how I feel to a tee.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

busysmurf said:


> Yet, they are the FIRST to look down on people who don't agree with their religious beliefs or don't go to their church.


This right here is the cruxt of the issue. People, or rather the fanatics as I put it, notice I don't say religion, feel that their religion is the only true religion and if you aren't of THAT religion than you are a heathen and non-believer.

A case in point: I was stationed on a ship and had the unfortunate experience of standing watch with a particular officer who just happened to be a Born Again Christian. Unfortunate in that the guy graduated the academy as a navigator and couldn't navigate his way out of a closed paper bag. Anyhow, he caught me out on the bridge wing one night while I was in between position fixes and was watching a pod of dolphins that had started playing in our bow wake. He comes out and starts yapping at me about how I needed to convert and that my religion was weak (not my belief but my religion) and yadda etc. Offended I was but I was also tactful at telling him to basically jump overboard..had he not been an officer I doubt I WOULD have been as tactful. 

I get the same feeling when I happen to get caught by Jehovah Witnesses, though they are more tactful, and even a few of the Mormon folks that have stopped by. Even though I tell them I am comfortable with my belief and my religion, they stand there and keep telling me why their's is so much better and in order to truly be saved I should join them...uhm..nope. I'll take my chances with who I am as I don't judge other's religions as good, bad or indifferent. I base my opinion on what I see, not on what I am told.


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

I agree with Roadyy. I go to church because it honestly helps me become closer to God and I enjoy worshiping with other people my age. But I don't think anyone has to go to church to be Christian or to worship God. Some of the closest times I've had with God was on my own. I don't like being pushy with my religion just like I wouldn't want someone pushing their religion on me. I chose to wear skirts and dresses and cover. But that doesn't mean that I want to force someone else to do the same and I def don't think you have to do that to be a Christian. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I will also add that I never see Christians posting complaints about non-Christians. Only non- Christians posting threads complaining about other non-Christians they relate to as Christians. 

You still don't see the difference between a Christian, who is religious, and a person who attends church so they can use it to stand above others(non-Christian). Until you can recognize the difference you will continue to make the same mistake thinking those you are complaining about are Christians. A Christian is unable to do the things you are complaining about simply because they study the word learning how to keep from doing those things. I hope someday you are able to differ between Christians and the non-Christian church attender so many of these threads are referring to. 

Here is a quote that may help you release so much stress some of you seem to have pinned up...

"I will not ruin the rest of my life by allowing anyone the power to make me hate them". 

Hate eats away at your soul and destroys you from the inside out. Your hate is not affecting the people you are hating, it is,however, hurting you since you are spending so much valuable energy and time on it. Remove the power and control that hate has over you so that you can then begin to enjoy the good in people instead of focusing on so much of the bad we all have.

I say all of this from experience with my own hypocrisy before seeing my life for what it is. I focus more on making myself a better servant, husband, father, friend and employee so that I don't focus on the bad in every person I meet. Oh, don't let me fool you into thinking I don't make mistakes and allow bad thoughts or actions to come from me because I do everyday. There is a female comedian that said it best..." Sometimes I let thoughts escape my head before they get sanctified". :lol:


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I will also say that church is not specifically a building. It has long been known that the church was referred to in the bible before buildings were ever introduced to house the worship. 

In the years after Jesus was crucified church was a body of believers gathered together worshiping God. Therefore, I agree that you do not have to be in a building to worship and praise God. I miss all of the revivals under the tent in my youth. My church does not do revivals and I have accepted that because there are so many other things that make up for it.

As for these other denominations that are mentioned as stating they are the be all end all denomination I can't speak on their behalf sense I am not a member of it. I do not look on anyone differently because they chose a different denomination than I did, I gladly look at them as one who chose to accept Jesus as their savoir. That is the biggest factor in who they are as a Christian to me.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

We finally have an agreement in our house. 1. Religion WILL NOT be discussed (it gets pretty ugly between us about it). 2. I have no issue with the kids attending Sunday school UNTIL/IF, they come home starting to say that other religions / cultures need "saving" or aren't good people, that's where I draw the line.

As the kids get older, we'll discuss the living together, sex before marriage, gay/lesbian issues at the appropriate time. We have come to a truce between hubby & I that we will teach the kids BOTH viewpoints and let them decide for themselves how they feel (obviously, we are on differing opinions on the subjects). We do both agree that religion shouldn't be forced onto others, and that as far as churches go everyone has the right to worship where they want. Of course hubby follows his church and believes that it is the "true" church, but at least respects the beliefs of others who don't attend that church.

When our daughter started ONLY talking about religion to anyone and everyone, we both agreed to explain to her that we don't think that is right, and that it made some people uncomfortable. If people asked her about it, THEN was the appropriate time to share. We were happy that she felt so strongly about it, but by being "fanatical" about it wasn't what we felt religion (God) was about.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I agree with you, Busysmurf. Our daily actions should be all it takes to show whether we are Christians or not.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> I will also add that I never see Christians posting complaints about non-Christians. Only non- Christians posting threads complaining about other non-Christians they relate to as Christians.
> 
> You still don't see the difference between a Christian, who is religious, and a person who attends church so they can use it to stand above others(non-Christian). Until you can recognize the difference you will continue to make the same mistake thinking those you are complaining about are Christians. A Christian is unable to do the things you are complaining about simply because they study the word learning how to keep from doing those things. I hope someday you are able to differ between Christians and the non-Christian church attender so many of these threads are referring to.
> 
> ...


 
You have a very good point. However, it has been my experience that rather than "complain" about non-followers, they are busy taking the lead by approaching with or without invitation trying to convert non-followers. Where as non-followers, didn't start the conversation in the first place.

The best example I can think of (& it's not the greatest, I admit) is it's kind of like tele-marketers. You can figure out who's who:wink:.

Remember, I'm not saying EVERYONE that is "religious" about religion is like this, but a vast majority come across that way.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I find it really sad that so many of the people who attend churches that preach the word of Christ - love, kindness, tolerance, forgiveness, simplicity, charity - can't then bring that into their everyday lives and they give everyone else a bad name.
There are some true Christians who go to Church who are wonderful examples and there are some who never set foot inside a Church who are just as good - and that applies to all faiths
Having the support network of like minded people around you is great as long as their deeds are in tune with what they preach - hypocrisy spreads like a disease and the different interpretations of often quite vital passages in the Bible amongst churches can be very confusing too.
I have an old framed print of an 'olde english' type garden above my desk that was given to my grandmother (who would now be 113) by her sister. It has a little verse on it
_The kiss of the sun for pardon_
_The song of the bird for mirth_
_One is nearer God's heart in a garden_
_Than anywhere else on earth_
_(D F Gurney)_


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> I agree with you, Busysmurf. Our daily actions should be all it takes to show whether we are Christians or not.


You sound very similar to hubby Except, I replace the word "Christian" with good people. Which works, because for us it basically means the same thing.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

busysmurf said:


> You have a very good point. However, it has been my experience that rather than "complain" about non-followers, they are busy taking the lead by approaching with or without invitation trying to convert non-followers. Where as non-followers, didn't start the conversation in the first place.
> 
> The best example I can think of (& it's not the greatest, I admit) is it's kind of like tele-marketers. You can figure out who's who:wink:.
> 
> Remember, I'm not saying EVERYONE that is "religious" about religion is like this, *but a vast majority come across that way*.


Not a vast majority, busy. You don't notice the rest of us because we are the people that AREN'T approaching you without invitation, or pushing our beliefs uninvited, etc.

We are the people behind you at the grocery store NOT complaining, we are the people in traffice who AREN'T flipping you off, we are the people who wait on you at the restaurant WITHOUT prying into your personal busines...

We are all around, but largely go unnoticed because we AREN'T being obnoxious.. 

*smile*


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

busysmurf said:


> You sound very similar to hubby Except, I replace the word "Christian" with good people. Which works, because for us it basically means the same thing.


But it doesn't. There are plenty of good people who aren't Christians.


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## Darrin (Jul 11, 2011)

There's two types of religious people that bother me. One is the type who goes on and on about God in every conversation and the other is the types who try and convert me. Luckily I'm running into fewer and fewer of them as time goes on.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

busysmurf said:


> You have a very good point. However, it has been my experience that rather than "complain" about non-followers, they are busy taking the lead by approaching with or without invitation trying to convert non-followers. *Where as non-followers, didn't start the conversation in the first place.*


If someone wants to ask about my religion I give them the basics. If they want to really delve deep, I give them to a local pastor. So even if they start the conversation I don't preach..that isn't my job and not what I was trained to do. A properly educated official, pastor, priest, rabbi (insert religious leader of choice here) etc is more capable of passing on the specifics.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Not a vast majority, busy. You don't notice the rest of us because we are the people that AREN'T approaching you without invitation, or pushing our beliefs uninvited, etc.
> 
> We are the people behind you at the grocery store NOT complaining, we are the people in traffice who AREN'T flipping you off, we are the people who wait on you at the restaurant WITHOUT prying into your personal busines...
> 
> ...


That's why I said "in my experience". I know better than to and don't agree to lumping everyone together, including those whom I haven't met. It may be that if you included everyone in the world, it's the other way around. Just from what I've come across, that's what I see.

"We are the people behind you at the grocery store NOT complaining, we are the people in traffice who AREN'T flipping you off, we are the people who wait on you at the restaurant WITHOUT prying into your personal busines..." You just described my FIL and his mother, lol. The most "religious" of hubby's fam.:wink:


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

texasgal said:


> But it doesn't. There are plenty of good people who aren't Christians.


That's what I'm saying!! You don't HAVE to be Christian to be a good person.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

busysmurf said:


> That's what I'm saying!! You don't HAVE to be Christian to be a good person.


Right.. but they aren't the same thing. (and I missed the part were you said (to ya'll they are the same) ..

Good people are good people despite their spiritual beliefs.

Christians have a specific basic belief .. regardless of how "good" they are..


I think we're basically saying the same thing.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

tlkng1 said:


> If someone wants to ask about my religion I give them the basics. If they want to really delve deep, I give them to a local pastor. So even if they start the conversation I don't preach..that isn't my job and not what I was trained to do. A properly educated official, pastor, priest, rabbi (insert religious leader of choice here) etc is more capable of passing on the specifics.


See, that doesn't bother me. I made that statement because of a conversation I had with hubby's Pastor about it. He explained to me that a huge part of being a member of the faith was "spreading the word" and that by going out "teaching" the "correct" path to God was what the church was about. So in that instance, the Pastor or who ever, WANTED the members to go out and preach.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

texasgal said:


> Right.. but they aren't the same thing. (and I missed the part were you said (to ya'll they are the same) ..
> 
> Good people are good people despite their spiritual beliefs.
> 
> ...


I think we are, just I'm bad at saying what I'm trying to say, lol. Let me try this...

When people say someone is a "good Christian", I take that as they are a good person (yes, I know there is more to their statement than that. But, I just leave it as simple compliment to a person's character). Where as I personally (who don't do the church thing) would just say someone is a "good person".

How's that?:lol:


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

busysmurf said:


> You sound very similar to hubby Except, I replace the word "Christian" with good people. Which works, because for us it basically means the same thing.


 I can not replace "Christian" with "good person" because you can be a good person and not accept Christ as your savoir therefore never getting to see heaven from the other side of the book of life.

I also agree with texasgirl and is what I have been trying to get across in my lengthen winded posts. lol Thank you texasgirl for shortening it to the point.

tlkng1, I disagree with handing someone off to someone else when I am questioned about my religion. When I first came to be a Christian I used to try and spat bible verses to anyone who was interested in what made me change. I happen to be up one morning and decided to check out a couple of tv evangelist. There was a black guy on there talking about mouthy so-called Christians telling amazing stories of grace and how God done so many wonderful things in their life, that weren't true. His response was that God DOES NOT NEED YOUR HELP! God is able to destroy his enemies with a breathe, he does not need us to make up stuff to show his forgiveness, grace and love for us.

That was when I realized most of the people who truly asked me about my Christianity didn't want to know what the bible said about my conversion, but instead wanted to hear my testimony and what it was that made me believe. What was it that opened my eyes to what was missing in my life and how God filled that void. 

I pray you find a way to be able to do the same with anyone who sincerely comes to you wanting to know how you have such peace in your life.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

...I like to debate..so debating with someone who is aware of the tenets of the faith is one thing...in that type of discussion you (the royal you there) are still passing the "word" but you aren't preaching..it is more of mutual teaching/discussion. Preaching, to me, is more of a solid one-on-one (or one on many when services are in session as other than the standard phrase responses the religious official is the one doing all the talking  ) chat with one talking and the other listening without much input.

Maybe it is just my way of being able to talk back without getting into trouble


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## Rena (Jul 8, 2013)

In my opinion, keep it to yourself.( haha seems like an oxymoron) I'm not one to go to church but I have had very close friends who are very religious. It doesn't matter what you believe, if you believe it then thats great. I personally believe in being a good, hard working, caring person, if you are then other peoples faiths shouldn't make a difference to you.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Many religious people are hypocrites - many aren't. Many women, men, doctors, lawyers, firemen, politicians, roofers, horse owners, environmentalists, hamburger flippers, blacks, whites, parents, preachers, and dog groomers are hypocrites - and many aren't.

Religious people have no monopoly on hypocrisy, nor in my observation are they any more hypocritical than anyone else...


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> I can not replace "Christian" with "good person" because you can be a good person and not accept Christ as your savoir therefore never getting to see heaven from the other side of the book of life.
> 
> I also agree with texasgirl and is what I have been trying to get across in my lengthen winded posts. lol Thank you texasgirl for shortening it to the point.
> 
> ...


That's why I (and this IS JUST ME!) choose to keep the statement "so and so is a good Christian" as you think that person is a good person (yes, in the back of my head I know the statement is made in large part because of the religious aspect). Sort of like a coping mechanism. Because in my life, there has been a STRONG emphasis on ONLY Christians can be good people. And that mentality infuriates me! So I just have trained myself to leave it as simple as I can.

Do you guys realize we are actually having a PLEASANT discussion about religion???? Who knew it was even possible:lol::lol: We're awesome!


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Faceman said:


> Many religious people are hypocrites - many aren't. Many women, men, doctors, lawyers, firemen, politicians, roofers, horse owners, environmentalists, hamburger flippers, blacks, whites, parents, preachers, and dog groomers are hypocrites - and many aren't.
> 
> Religious people have no monopoly on hypocrisy, nor in my observation are they any more hypocritical than anyone else...


You're absolutely right (ugh, I just said you were right:hide::rofl. Why it bothers me the way it does is that religious people are more verbal about it (again, just what I've seen. NOT trying to lump everyone together). In one breathe I've heard "God teaches us to be patient and kind", and in the next breathe say to a waitress " excuse me, I said EASY on the salad dressing. NOT dump the whole bottle!! How hard is it to follow a simple direction??" No lie, got to love my BIL.

I'm not saying as an environmental tech, I get upset over some use of a chemical for example, and then go home & use a chemical to clean something. Because I do that. It's just that I try & keep it to myself.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

busysmurf said:


> That's why I (and this IS JUST ME!) choose to keep the statement "so and so is a good Christian" as you think that person is a good person (yes, in the back of my head I know the statement is made in large part because of the religious aspect). Sort of like a coping mechanism. Because in my life, there has been a STRONG emphasis on ONLY Christians can be good people. And that mentality infuriates me! So I just have trained myself to leave it as simple as I can.
> 
> *Do you guys realize we are actually having a PLEASANT discussion about religion???? Who knew it was even possible:lol::lol: We're awesome!*


This is what always kept me out of the other Christian bashing threads. I see no win for anyone when there is nothing but negatives thrown around. So often these threads turn into the christian losing their composure while trying to explain their point and the non- Christian waiting like a predator posed to jump at the first sign of weakness to try and make their point. No one wins in those threads and everyone walks away with a sour taste in their mouth. The Christian walks away trying to figure out what happened and the non-Christian walks away thinking they won something.

I always enjoy a good conversation with a rational person who is willing to HEAR my side of the debate instead of condemning me because they have predetermined all church people as Christians. Therefore because I go to church I am also the enemy and a hypocrite like the church person they had shoving religion down their throat right before shoving a bottle down their own to get drunk.

Thank you for keeping this enjoyable for me to join in.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

See Mods, WE CAN BEHAVE!!!! .....occasionally, rofl


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

busysmurf said:


> Why it bothers me the way it does is that religious people are more verbal about it (again, just what I've seen. NOT trying to lump everyone together). In one breathe I've heard "God teaches us to be patient and kind", and in the next breathe say to a waitress " excuse me, I said EASY on the salad dressing. NOT dump the whole bottle!! How hard is it to follow a simple direction??" No lie, got to love my BIL.


That is one thing I got so tired of dealing with when I was waiting tables. I got to the point that I absolutely despised working on Sundays because the hordes of "church people" that came in were some of the most impatient, rude, snide people and had the most potent "betterthanyou" attitudes.

I know that churchgoing folks aren't any more likely to be hypocritical than anyone else, but considering that Monday through Saturday, I'd have maybe 1 in 20 tables treat me like crap...and on Sunday it would be more like 1 in 5. It almost seemed like they had the attitude of "Well, she's working on a Sunday, that makes her a non-believing heathen. She only deserves a $2 tip on a $120 ticket after I chew her butt off about how she did this or that wrong or too slowly"

Maybe it's just the preachers in my area, but one of the reasons that I don't go to church is that if you have any real questions about the bible, they just don't seem to be able to answer them. If you ask them some of the deeper questions or if you try to ask why they teach <this> when the bible specifically says <that>, then they try to feed you the "It's all in how you interpret it" line. So many times, the way they "interpret" the line is completely out of line with the context and the actual words that are written.

I feel closer to God when I read the bible and see his word for myself, not when I go to church and listen to some preacher rant about sin and how all sinners are tossed into a lake of fire and brimstone...when it's just not true. Sin doesn't automatically mean that you go to hell and burn forever. If that were true, then Jesus was sacrificed for absolutely nothing.

Anyway, I could go off on a whole tangent about how preachers misinterpret the word of God and how they pick and choose certain passages and use them out of context, but that's another monologue for another day LOL.

So, I'll just leave you with my favorite quote ever regarding religion:

I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your mind and your heart and what you decide to do every day will make you a good man...or not.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Roadyy said:


> tlkng1, I disagree with handing someone off to someone else when I am questioned about my religion.
> That was when I realized most of the people who truly asked me about my Christianity didn't want to know what the bible said about my conversion, but instead wanted to hear my testimony and what it was that made me believe. What was it that opened my eyes to what was missing in my life and how God filled that void.
> 
> I pray you find a way to be able to do the same with anyone who sincerely comes to you wanting to know how you have such peace in your life.


This is what I was getting at Roady. If someone asks I will tell them why I believe, what my basis is and how it effects me..but that is where I stop. I can't teach someone the depths of the tenets of the faith as I am not a trained religious scholar; I can only give basics. 

My pastor (or again, insert religious leader of choice here) is trained to communicate the tenets of the faith in a manner the lay (for lack of a better term) can better understand. Now, if I were on a deserted island and it was only me and the other person I could probably adapt . 

Why would I teach someone to build a house when my knowledge of construction doesn't level the knowledge of a construction professional that is available and willing to pass on the information?


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I understand what you meant now.. Sorry for my misunderstanding..


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Faceman said:


> Many religious people are hypocrites - many aren't. Many women, men, doctors, lawyers, firemen, politicians, roofers, horse owners, environmentalists, hamburger flippers, blacks, whites, parents, preachers, and dog groomers are hypocrites - and many aren't.
> 
> Religious people have no monopoly on hypocrisy, nor in my observation are they any more hypocritical than anyone else...


Agreed. It is a shame and sad for people who do not have a personal relationship with God bc Christian hypocracy is a good enough reason to justify NO relationship with God.
I will be blunt: The way to Heaven and eternity WITH God is to KNOW God. It's very simple--you cannot "know" someone without committing to regular time spent with that someone.
The way to Hell, and your eventual death and disappearance of your soul is to have no relationship with God.
A good way to have NO relationship with God is to find excuses to not know and not pray to God, or to blame other people for creating impediments between you and God.
You do not need a building or a group of other people to know God.
You DO need others who have a personal relationship with God to both regularly pray with you and to hold you accountable for your sins. Sin is something, ANYTHING, you intentionally do that harms another person.
The slate is clean when you pray to God and earnestly ask forgiveness specifically for each sin. I'm a Methodist, but I DO NOT CARE how anyone in another Christian denomination does this. We all sin every day. Christians who know God ask for forgiveness (hopefully) every single day, or, as often as possible. David did some rotten things, like murder, but each time he came to his senses he asked for forgiveness. Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon and fill in your own blanks could have asked for forgiveness from God and been forgiven.
This relationship is PERSONAL and no human being can testify that another person communes with God or has asked for forgiveness.
Being a Christian, born again bc I know my God, gives me personal assurances about my future. It doesn't take away my pains or bad circumstances. I have a guidebook, the 10 commandments, that tells me what is right and what is wrong, so I don't have to struggle with figuring those things out arbitrarily or politically. To sum those up they mean:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto YOU.
I can only judge your actions, but not your intents. I am NOT a doormat and I fight to fix wrong behavior (like animal abuse), but if you haven't heard it in a church or elsewhere it is important that you know that Christians have to work at our faith every single day. We didn't "join a club" that requires nothing of us.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Corporal said:


> Agreed. It is a shame and sad for people who do not have a personal relationship with God bc Christian hypocracy is a good enough reason to justify NO relationship with God.So, if I do not go to church I have no relationship with God? Do you really think he is only in that building on that day?
> I will be blunt: The way to Heaven and eternity WITH God is to KNOW God. It's very simple--you cannot "know" someone without committing to regular time spent with that someone.But who says I have to be in any certain place at 10 am on a Sunday to do that?
> The way to Hell, and your eventual death and disappearance of your soul is to have no relationship with God.
> A good way to have NO relationship with God is to find excuses to not know and not pray to God, or to blame other people for creating impediments between you and God.
> ...


Do you not see that on the one hand you have agreed that religion is practiced every day in how someone lives their life, yet you also say that others are needed? Why? I have never, ever understood why, for example, catholics have to go to confession. To me, their sin is between them and God, not them and some priest who tells them to say 10 hail Mary's and it will all go away. To me that is BS. And That Catholics have to go to Pre-cana and discuss marriage with someone who has never been married, more can they ever? Or, that my brother the baptist fanatic is a missionary but treats the women in his family like poo because they are to "serve"? That is NOT how he was raised (as a Methodist) and I will always believe he chose that religion because it gave his a slave. Honestly, it took all I had not to stand up and tell my niece to RUN! when the word obey was in her wedding vows. Seriously. This is why I see WAY more hypocrisy than I feel I should with people who go around "praying for me" because I don;t go to church. If you want to pray, pray for a cure for MS, Cancer, end to war.....not to get me to go to church. I will continue to practice my religion through the way I live. Not how I spend my Sundays.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

ALL of us fail and fall short of the glory of God. For every sin that you identify in another person, you also have your own. I am ALWAYS asking forgiveness and I depend upon the Holy Spirit and NO LIVING PERSON to guide me.
The only unforgiveable sin is to NOT KNOW GOD. All other sins are equal.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Corporal said:


> ALL of us fail and fall short of the glory of God. For every sin that you identify in another person, you also have your own. I am ALWAYS asking forgiveness and I depend upon the Holy Spirit and NO LIVING PERSON to guide me.
> The only unforgiveable sin is to NOT KNOW GOD. All other sins are equal.


BUT what if we don't call him God? What if we call him by another name?

Sean - Shawn - Shane - John - Jon - Jean - Gino....... Same name, different language


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

franknbeans said:


> Do you not see that on the one hand you have agreed that religion is practiced every day in how someone lives their life, yet you also say that others are needed? Why? I have never, ever understood why, for example, *catholics have to go to confession. To me, their sin is between them and God, not them and some priest who tells them to say 10 hail Mary's and it will all go away. To me that is BS.* And That Catholics have to go to Pre-cana and discuss marriage with someone who has never been married, more can they ever? Or, that my brother the baptist fanatic is a missionary but *treats the women in his family like poo because they are to "serve"?* That is NOT how he was raised (as a Methodist) and I will always believe he chose that religion because it gave his a slave. Honestly, it took all I had not to stand up and tell my niece to RUN! when the word obey was in her wedding vows. Seriously. This is why I see WAY more hypocrisy than I feel I should with people who go around "_praying for me" because I don;t go to church_. If you want to pray, pray for a cure for MS, Cancer, end to war.....not to get me to go to church. I will continue to practice my religion through the way I live. Not how I spend my Sundays.


I just wanted to touch on a few things. Generally I don't like religious debates because like I said earlier, I'm not one to press my religion on anyone. If someone has questions then I'd be glad to help but as far as practically trying to shove my religion onto someone else, no. 

To the bolded: I don't not believe in that at all. Actually I would like to see scripture from someone who does believe this to back it up. I believe confession should be between You and God. Not you and some man who has went to preaching school. You should repent to God everyday, and to man only when necessary. Like say I stole something from someone I know. I would want to repent to that person for what I've done not necessarily because it's biblical but because it would make you feel better as well.

To the underlined: I know someone who also was in this situation. In this case I feel like it's basically someone hiding behind their religion to do what they want to do. It isn't biblical that your wife is your slave. Woman was made out of the rib of Adam. Not for him to be ahead of her but for them to be equal and for him to care about her needs and her care for his. Don't get me wrong I think there are woman and man gender roles, that's just how I was raised but not for a wife to be a mans slave, no. 

To the italic: Like I stated earlier it does not say that you have to go to church in order to be a Chrisitan. In todays society more and more churches are breaking up. It took me a long time to find one I am happy with because so many of them are becoming hypocritical. It's sad really. But if you find comfort in worshiping God on your own then that's great! 

Also this is just my opinion. I consider myself mennonite now (since that's the church i've been attending even though I grew up brethern and some baptist). It does pain me to see people who claim to be Christian act super hypocritical because then it gives us who are actually trying a bad rep. :?


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

busysmurf said:


> BUT what if we don't call him God? What if we call him by another name?
> 
> Sean - Shawn - Shane - John - Jon - Jean - Gino....... Same name, different language


Then how are you not calling him the same name??:lol::hide: Doesn't matter what language it is if it refers to the same name...


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> Then how are you not calling him the same name??:lol::hide: Doesn't matter what language it is if it refers to the same name...


Ha, BUT doesn't God = the highest power? So one stands to argue that Buhda, Ra, the Sun, etc. are all the same in their "language" (the highest power), but the "name" is different.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> I have never, ever understood why, for example, catholics have to go to confession. To me, their sin is between them and God, not them and some priest who tells them to say 10 hail Mary's and it will all go away.


Just info..having to go to confession was done away with in the Catholic church some time ago. You may confess your sins to God on your own, or you may request an 'old style' confession with a priest (but I've rarely seen anyone do this, and the old confessionals are gone, too.).


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

busysmurf said:


> Ha, BUT doesn't God = the highest power? So one stands to argue that Buhda, Ra, the Sun, etc. are all the same in their "language" (the highest power), but the "name" is different.


Buddha was a prophet, not another name for God. :wink:


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

busysmurf said:


> Ha, BUT doesn't God = the highest power? So one stands to argue that Buhda, Ra, the Sun, etc. are all the same in their "language" (the highest power), but the "name" is different.


 And they were all proven to be less than the God. Buddha as stated was a prophet. I knew what you were going for though.


I have really enjoyed this conversation with you busysmurf. I want to thank you again for that. I look forward to more of this later, but now I need to wrap up a few loose ends before heading home.. Good evening and God bless.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Corporal said:


> The only unforgiveable sin is to NOT KNOW GOD. All other sins are equal.


So in your eyes if someone chooses a path in life that does not follow the word of God, they are a sinner, even if they are a good person? Which means in your eyes they are going to Hell? 

But if someone slaughters their family and then decides to "accept God" they are free of their sin and will go to Heaven?

I am Baptist but I am not a strict Baptist. I hold God in my heart and I pray and go to Church a couple times a year. I don't sit and read the Bible, I don't go and preach to everyone and anyone. Heck, most people are surprised when they hear I am Religious. *shrug* Especially given the lifestyle I have lived.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

If they repent to God, yes. Seems very unfair. We Christians are asked to forgive other people even when they don't want forgiveness from us. God will only forgive you if you ask him by repenting. That means that you realize what you have done to someone else and want to be cleansed of the sin.
It is hubris that keeps people from asking God to forgive them. Then, other people's eyes are opened to what they've done and believe that even God won't forgive them so they don't even go to God. But, they get really angry that God "allows" these things to happen. We all have free will and have to answer for our behavior at the moment of our inevitable deaths. Free will creates good behavior. Free will creates bad behavior. 
People do absolutely horrible things to each other. Some justify the worst actions in the name of the cause, like the Boston bomber in court yesterday cynically waving to his family and fans.
I do NOT condone these things. I can't keep silent when I see other people tortured.
There are many many Christians who have experienced these things firsthand, came to Christ and forgave the people who treated them so badly, even if those people didn't believe any harm was committed.
I can only tell you what I know and what I have experienced from my relationship with God is a BETTER life than it was before. To be greatful for the people around me that bless me and my circumstances--not as wonderful as some, not as bad as others--brings peace. I used to rail at the world when things didn't go my way, or things were unfair. I cannot change those things. But, I can willfully bless other people by my words and the things I do for them. I don't keep track, but I know when I'm doing something or saying something meaningful at the right time, and it helps another person.


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm not trying to be nasty here but basically to me this reads as you believe that anyone who does not follow Gods' word is below you.

Again I am not looking to pick a fight but this is really how it reads. Mind you it could just be the fact that I am falling on my face from exhaustion thanks to a 9 week old puppy not allowing me more then 2 hours of sleep at a time :shock:


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Nope. We are equal. I am sharing my beliefs bc everybody has an urge to be loved and God IS love, without caveat.
I'm not high on drugs or high on life. Becoming saved is really a very selfish thing bc you want to go to a place of rest from this burdensome life SO BADLY. Then you want to share it with anyone who will listen.
I still act like a sinner, but I know who to talk to about anything. God judges my sin but doesn't condemn me bc I sin a lot, which happens to every Christian and every non-Christian.
I'm sorry that people who call themselves Christians and churchgoers have hurt you. Christians and churchgoers have hurt me, too. They will not keep me from God.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I didn't read anything but the last or the first page so I won't comment on anything specifically. I'll come back and read after work.

Having a religion can be great for someone. It can help them, shape them into good people, give them comfort in the hardest of times, inspire them, etc.

You know what inspires me?

Two koreans by the name of Kim Jong Woon and Lee Chaerin. An a young girl at the barn named Maya who is a mirror image of me when I was young. Brenda Mays, barrel racer, also inspires me. My horse inspires me. These are things that literally have saved my life. If you think I'm kidding, I'll show you the scars later. 

It's all mental - What comforts, inspires, and protects your peace of mind will be different from person to person. What you believe in will be different from person to person. Your religion will variate from person to person, culture to culture. Same with hair color, sexual orientation, body type, clothes. 

You know what is completely and totally beautiful about this?

There is no "right" way to live your life.

A few years ago I was working at the old cafe' on halloween, and as tradition all workers were in costumes. It being hot in the kitchen area, I wore a...light costume, let's say, so I could stay cool. A group of women from the local church came by, and complained. They said not only was I going to hell for my clothing, but I was also damned for the way my hair was dyed.

I was dressed like this:










(I took this picture after that incident. Like how I'm next to a nun? :lol: )

I told them if they had a problem with me they were welcome to leave. They left.


I am a firm believer that if someone is christian, they are christian whether or not they attend church every single Sunday. You can hold God close to you, cherish him, pray, in your home. You don't need someone to verify your love for Him, or His love for you. I believe that public religious sanctions have gotten so corrupted, it's almost impossible to find a pure one these days. If you can't loved your damned neighbor ( :lol: pun intended ) then you're doing things wrong. You don't have to like them, get along with them, douse them in compliments and bring them pies and bible scriptures -- Just accept they are living their lives differently, and move on. Unless they are putting you, your family, or your property in danger, remember that we have the right to freedom of religion. 

Most of the christian people I am friends with, I didn't even know they were religious until they told me. They were just wonderful, kind people.

On that note, I end on one final statement that I seem to be using a lot these days on the forum:

Your rights are only your rights until they infringe upon the rights of others.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I've met some hypocrites who are Christian. Also some who are pagan, practice wiccan, atheists, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslim. It's kind of human nature to try to present well and then mess up.

But, most folks seem to be sincere in trying to live by their beliefs.

Sure, going to church doesn't make one great, much less perfect. But, churches are awesome at pulling people together to be more effective at good works. I support two churches near me. Well, not by myself, but I give to both of them. I like the things they do for their communities, both within their walls and out in their areas.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Oh definitely, it is totally a human trait boots. I agree 100%.


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## littleamy76 (Jun 30, 2011)

I haven't read all of the posts yet, but with what the OP started this thread about..it is one of the many reasons why I became an atheist.


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I belong to the "Church of I Don't Know & Neither Do You". Because you don't KNOW, you believe, which is why it is a faith, not a fact. Carry on....


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## EquineObsessed (May 24, 2013)

Agree with what a lot of people are saying. I am Christian, but sometimes I hate to tell people, because of the negative connotation that has come from hypocritical people and self righteousness. But I love to read and pray and I love the little home church I go to. I don't think that those who say they believe in God have any right to judge. I get so frustrated when people say "that action will get you into hell" well, maybe it will, but guess what? According to your beliefs, God decides that, not you or me or anyone else. For me, it comes to this: I cannot say who goes to heaven and who doesn't, so I had better just live my life as close to the life as Jesus as possible, and let the rest be. If people want to know about my beliefs, they can ask and I will tell. But a large part of my belief is the one called "I try to mind my own business."


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

boots said:


> But, most folks seem to be sincere in trying to live by their beliefs.


Eh, I can't say I agree. Don't get me wrong, I don't 100 percent disagree, but the advent of the internet and social networks clarified some "religious" persons beliefs for me.

For example:

DH dated a friend of mine in HS...religious girl, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS trying to convert me to her way of things. I remember sitting for hours while she tried. In any case, her posts on FB exposed her true thoughts and actions....like the survey where they asked "What did you do right out of HS?" answer: Get pregnant (where's the baby? Just saying!). And her rant against how homosexuality is an abomination and "animals in the zoo don't do it!" Of course, If I ever said anything back (with proof yet!!), it was ignored.

And the other girl who is really big on pushing religion, always throwing bible verses out there? Well she also mass forwarded an anti-Islamic email awhile back claiming that all Muslims in American want the US to be converted to Sharia law...um...no? Everything that I tried to educate her on with SOURCES and support, she had some argument for. She literally seems to hate everything and everyone that doesn't conform to HER VERSION of how the bible states things. I finally unfriended her. =/

And that's the thing, it isn't what the bible/koran/Talmud *say*, it's how that person chooses to interpret them. And to me it seems like so many people, instead of studying their chosen Holy Book, considering it's musings and meditating/praying on it for THEMSELVES are just eating up wholesale whatever some "religious authority says". Example, I went to a Christian school for several years when I was a kid (Apastolic sp?), and occasionally they'd have us bring in rap/R&b so we could smash it as a mob...they also didn't believe in dancing, and at least one teacher would sit us down and tell us how "the white people" are taking all the black people shows off of tv. I remember visiting a few years later as a teen and being told that my pager was a sin, and they were for "drug dealers"....O_O. Instead of preaching on how some things (maybe like rap? Idk) may deter one from the path of god, they insist something is evil and instead required a bunch of little kids to bring in their worldly things to destroy.



*That being said, I do know some good, quiet people that actually do seem to follow their beliefs/practice what they preach and are genuinely good people.* YES, they still sin, but they don't go all out partying 6 days a week knowing god will forgive them on the 7th!!!

And that still bugs the crap out of me...so, the way some people have it, you can be a rapist/murderer/drug dealer and be 100 percent aware that you are a "christian"...you ask on Sundays or whatever to be forgiven , KNOWING **** WELL THAT YOU AREN'T GOING TO STOP smoking, dealing drugs, whatever....getting "forgiven"...and going right back to wallowing in your sin. Um, isn't that lying to yourself, AND God? Don't you think he KNOWS THAT YOU INTEND TO KEEP SINNING?!

It's a supposedly omnipotent being you are lying to. I mean, if God exists, do these people who sin 6 days out of 7 and plan to continue on like that, or the truly bad guys who think "it's ok, if I repent when I'm fearing death, I'll enter the kingdom of Heaven"....don't you think that maybe their God has their number? 

*SIGH*
*walks off muttering to self*

PS) Hypocrites aren't my "excuse" not to go to church. I don't need an excuse for that....


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

Demon you make good points  What is the country song..I think it is by Sugarloaf..something about partying on Saturday and going to church on Sunday? I'm not Catholic but went to a Catholic high school...non-Catholics were required to take Catholic doctrine classes so I had a little look into things. IF I remember correctly, and someone who is Catholic can correct me here, the idea behind confession was to gain penance and then forgiveness of sin, but, the priest would not, or could not, absolve the sin if the person doing the confessing had no intent to actually stop the actions. In other words, someone confessing to adultery would not gain forgiveness for adultery if they didn't intend to stop, er, adulterating (I know that isn't a word but it seemed to fit ) even if they confessed the sin and performed the penance.

There is somewhere in the Bible where Jesus absolved a woman for prostitution..was it Mary Magdalene(?). After absolving the sin He said "Go forth and sin no more." Some of the more, let's say colorful, people these days seemed to have missed that reference.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

G-D created different people who created different beliefs. G-D told Abraham he would be the father of many nations. Therefore their are different paths to G-D . There is no commandment in the Hebrew bible that demands anyone attend a religious ceremony on a regualr basis.
As someone whose religion fortells no heaven or hell being told that you will be missed in one and reside in the other is very humorous to most Jews.
I for one am certain Ghandi 's spirit has returned to G-D in the life here after.
I do tire of the constant attempts to convert me especially since I see no reason to. Also as the OP has posted if there is a heaven and those self serving "preachers" are going there I will take my chances in Hell. No G-D that I believe in or want to would possibly entertain elevating such people over the others.
Religion can be a very positive thing. It can also be destructive.
I may refuse to read or touch a christian bible but I do believe it to be an ethical religion. The G-D of Abraham and the prophets I am told is the same G-D of the so called Old Testament. Calling the Torah the Old Testament is troubling and antisemitic to most Jews.
I have read the Koran and I know it to be an ethical religion and that Allah is the same G-D who made a convenant with Abraham, Issac, and with Jacob.
We need to celebrate our common themes of love compassion and kindness instead of proving that the different religions are superior to all the others.
My question has always been if I as a Jew can accept Christians for their beliefs why cant some christians accept mine and then leave me alone.
There is no need to convert anyone who practices an ethical religion. NONE
That to me is hypocritical. Shalom


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> Buddha was a prophet, not another name for God. :wink:


You know what I was trying to get at, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

OK, so I'm admittedly NOT the sharpest tool in the shed, but I do TRY to learn about things (which is usually where I get things messed up, but hey, I try  ).

Anyway, the way I look at it is, is if you were to simplify all the religions to the very core, you'd be left with the same thing. There's a "higher" power, there's things/people that surround & support the higher power, & there's a "book" on how that higher power wants us to live our lives.

We've just all interpreted the same story in different ways, emphasising different chapters. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alexischristina (Jun 30, 2009)

I think religion is a wonderful thing for some people, and 100% support any persons' right to practice any religion so long as their practices and beliefs do not do harm to other people- which is where I find it very difficult and uncomfortable to listen to some religious folks talk, when there is a lack of respect or a deep hatred for other people as humans because they don't believe in the same 'values'. This includes people who feel it is their 'duty' to try and convert others to their religion. I've been approached at school, at work and even via private message on this forum by people telling me my views are 'wrong' and that they sincerely hope I can find it in me to accept God into my heart, because they would hate for me to go to hell. THAT makes me unhappy, uncomfortable and definitely helps harbour a distaste for not just Christians, but anyone who thinks their way is the only way. I'm the first person to admit that I _do not know_ if there is a God. I don't believe in God, but just because I don't believe in something doesn't mean it _doesn't_ exist, there are always alternatives and I think what "bothers" me on a philosophical level is the idea that there are some people who are so 100% set in something that I cannot see.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I see a few posts I wanted to respond to and will try to break it up into different posts to keep from writing a book in one.


NBEventer, 
It's not according to our eyes that they WILL go to hell if someone does not follow the word of God, which makes them a sinner even if they are a good person. Remember that God set up perimeters to help keep us right with him not to control us. If he wanted to control us he never would have given us free will. He wants us to choose to be with him.
As wrong as it sounds to the non-believer on the second part Coporal is corrent and you should already know this from the basic teaching in the Baptist ministry. I don't mean that in a derogative manner. I grew up in the Southern Baptist church.
God is a loving and forgiving God who wants to forgive all sin otherwise he would not have given us Jesus. Was Saul not a persecutor of Jesus' followers who became Paul the Disciple? 

The other thing like Corporal touched on is repent..Repent by definition means to turn away. So in order to repent you must turn from the sin and not go back to it in order to be fully repentant and forgiven. Doing it over and over and expecting to be forgiven over and over does not work.
I think you were tired and read Corporal's response wrong. I didn't see any better than though in there, just an honest answer to your question. 

I wanted to respond yesterday, but it was time to go home, take care of horses and spend time with my family so I apologize for the delay. I know you were talking to Corporal, but hope you don't mind me adding a response. 

I also admit that I don't read the bible everyday and there are times that a full week will go by without me reading the bible.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

SorrelHorse, I'm sorry there are people like that who try to use God to raise themselves above others. Jesus walked among the sinners, not the righteous. I think by your next post you seem to recognize the difference between a church goer for their own gain and a Christian.

Sorry these responses are spaced in time. I'm at work and when repair calls come in I have to go.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

dbarabians. I agree there are some Christians who are tainted by their teachers of the word. I have witnessed some of those who think their religion or even denomination is better than all others. I have a few friends here at work that are Catholic, Jewish or Islamic. We get our families together every couple of months and enjoy the time. We started a few conversations about religion and Tom(Catholic) asked that any talk we have about our beliefs remain civil and agree to stop any further discussions and just enjoy our friendships if it got in the way. We all agreed and have gotten into hilarious jabbing conversations towards each other about each faith. We have the upmost respect for each other's devotion to our faith and pray for each other and our families.

I am thankful for their friendship and their knowledge as there as certain things, like you said, that cross the barriers of all of our faiths.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

dbarabians said:


> My question has always been if I as a Jew can accept Christians for their beliefs why cant some christians accept mine and then leave me alone.
> There is no need to convert anyone who practices an ethical religion. NONE
> That to me is hypocritical. Shalom


I would be satisfied just to convert you to a (politically) conservative Jew...:rofl:

In direct answer to your question, part of the problem is that Christians received the Great Commission from Christ - his last directive before he ascended. As a result, "outreach" or evangelism is a basic teaching of Christianity and is something all Christians are supposed to do. Here is a short, easy-read link that explains it...

What Is The Great Commission

I obviously don't "preach" or directly try to convert anyone, but I do consider my comments and actions, and conversations about Christian values as subtle evangelism, so I feel I am satisfying the Great Commission in an indirect way...


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I think, there is a perpetual relationship between sin and redemption.

None of us are perfect, and temptation is always there.

We all fall short in many ways. Enter, Grace.

MATTHEW 7:1-5:
"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye."

That's a huge piece of advice, and yes, I agree, I am sometimes finding myself in hypocrisy, and think that yes, most of us christians find it hard to keep on the straight and narrow. Thanks for redemption and salvation, by the grace of god.


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

I need to make an apology here. 

The OP stated an issue with Super religious people and I automatically assumed it was in reference to Christians and it may very well have been. I am still young in my walk and apologize for not acknowledging other religious beliefs. Without knowing exactly what belief the persons frankandbeans was referring to in particular then one must not assume it was one particular faith. 

For that I apologize to fnb and those of other religions. dbarabians post got me to thinking and made me realize my error. I hope you can forgive my error and not look too badly on me for it.


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

Roadyy said:


> I need to make an apology here.
> 
> The OP stated an issue with Super religious people and I automatically assumed it was in reference to Christians and it may very well have been. I am still young in my walk and apologize for not acknowledging other religious beliefs. Without knowing exactly what belief the persons frankandbeans was referring to in particular then one must not assume it was one particular faith.
> 
> For that I apologize to fnb and those of other religions. dbarabians post got me to thinking and made me realize my error. I hope you can forgive my error and not look too badly on me for it.


Makes 2 of us, lol.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Roady you owe me no apology. Allow me to assure you of that.
I understand that christians who evangelize to other religions mostly do so out of kindness and concern.
It is how you approach someone that is the problem.
Arrogant and self righteous people are not very religious IMO. Shalom


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## Roadyy (Feb 9, 2013)

Thank you db.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

dbarabians said:


> G-D created different people who created different beliefs. G-D told Abraham he would be the father of many nations. Therefore their are different paths to G-D . There is no commandment in the Hebrew bible that demands anyone attend a religious ceremony on a regualr basis.
> As someone whose religion fortells no heaven or hell being told that you will be missed in one and reside in the other is very humorous to most Jews.
> I for one am certain Ghandi 's spirit has returned to G-D in the life here after.
> I do tire of the constant attempts to convert me especially since I see no reason to. Also as the OP has posted if there is a heaven and those self serving "preachers" are going there I will take my chances in Hell. No G-D that I believe in or want to would possibly entertain elevating such people over the others.
> ...


I belong to no religion, specifically. but, I'd convert to one , if I did, based on the example set by those of that faith, rather than by them telling me to convert. If living by that faith is THAT good, then I will be able to see it in their lives and actions, and will WANT it for myself, not because they tell me I should want it.


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Good point Tinyliny.
When others have trouble accepting another religion remember that G-D admonished the Hebrews as they celebrated the drowning of the Egyptian Army. For they were HIS children too. Shalom


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Roaddy-no apologies needed. There are overzealous people in ALL religious walks from my experience. My personal experience however, is primarily with Christians. (and I include Catholics in that, since I consider them Christians-they may cringe, but, oh well. )


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

So true, Tiny. People should look at us and WANT what we have .. not want to run away from us! ..


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## PaintLover17 (Jan 3, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I belong to no religion, specifically. but, I'd convert to one , if I did, based on the example set by those of that faith, rather than by them telling me to convert. If living by that faith is THAT good, then I will be able to see it in their lives and actions, and will WANT it for myself, not because they tell me I should want it.


As a Catholic, that is exactly how I feel we are called to spread God's word. I am not the type that will go spouting my faith to everyone and trying to convert others. This thread is the perfect example of why. If attempting to convert others turns them off this much to Christianity it is not the way to go. So, I just try and live my life and show others what it means to truly be Christian. Hopefully others will see that and want what I have. 



franknbeans said:


> Roaddy-no apologies needed. There are overzealous people in ALL religious walks from my experience. My personal experience however, is primarily with Christians. (and I include Catholics in that, since I consider them Christians-they may cringe, but, oh well. )


Catholics are Christians. The Catholic church is actually the original established Christian church that all other denominations have broken off from. :wink:


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## busysmurf (Feb 16, 2012)

So I have a funny story, along the lines of this thread, and maybe you guys can see where I'm coming from. Or at least get a good laugh at it.

Before I was preggers with #2, I was an Emergency Response Haz Mat project manager, so I traveled A LOT and was ALWAYS on call. But I LOVED my job, & made me feel like I was actually contributing to society for once. Yes it was hard on my oldest kid & hubby, but they understood it was important to me, so we made it work. I realized with another kid on the way things would have to change, & was working that out with my boss.

Anyway, when we told hubby's family (the super religious ones), to our face a few where of course happy (a few of my SIL's I AM really close with). Bur one SIL, & hubby's grandma and I do not get along. Anyway, Holy Roller SIL sent an email to her other sisters & didn't realize that I was included in that "group", lol. In it she said that my kids would be the first in jail, pregnant as teens, arrested all the time, etc. because of my religious beliefs and that a "good Christian mother" doesn't work outside of the house. I replied with "at least I know who to go to for bail money, seeing as how a "good Christian" always helps out family.:rofl: (Oh, hers was the first to get disciplined by the principal).

Then shortly before, I had kiddo #2, hubby's Grandma just showed up for "lunch" one day (she lives an hour away). Started out pleasant enough, then we found out the REAL reason for her visit.... She was there to show me the ways of a true Christian mother (using Holy Roller SIL & a few cousins as examples), told me that she was honestly disappointed in hubby for marrying a person like me, my kids were guaranteed to be "un-holy" in spirit, that all I needed to fulfill my life was to immerse myself in the church & not my job, etc., etc.

Surprisingly (if you knew me you'd be shocked!!) I DIDN'T BLOW UP AT HER:-o I told her she was welcome to her opinions, I wasn't going to apologize for who I was/am, whether she wanted to accept it or not my job was important not just to me, and my kids will grow up accepting others for who they are, from where they come from, and for their opinions. They will know right from wrong, and not be afraid or ashamed of who they truly are.

Then the real me returned, bwaahaahaa. I told her she could leave, it was time to sacrifice a goat, count the stars, go hit the mosque on the way to Graceland.:lol::lol:


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I think people tend to assume religious = Christian just because of how many of them there are. I come across more Christians than everything else combined!

I look at it this way...
When a little kid is busted doing something wrong, sometimes they know darn well it was wrong. Why did they do it then? A shrug and an "I don't know".

Having a stance on something doesn't obligate you to do it. People know adultery is wrong, some still do it. Same for other crimes. Same for social courtesies. We are all just people, and sometimes we do something knowing it's wrong and sometimes we don't even think about it. Way back in the thread someone mentioned kindness and the comparison about how a person treated a waitress. Some people don't stop to consider someone like a waitress or janitor, and those guys are often treated poorly.

You can still quote the words of your religion and just suck at following them. I think the hypocrisy is there when the choices are deliberately made, not when the person isn't thinking about it in perspective.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

I think my signature line describes it best.


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

Roadyy said:


> I am a Christian and used the same excuse when I didn't attend church regularly. I saw so many deacons at the liquor store on the way home from church and thought they were such hypocrites and I couldn't be a part of that. Then realized I was being a hypocrite for for seeing the splinter in their eye without seeing the log in my own. We can find bad examples in anything we don't want to accept if we go over it long enough with a fine tooth comb.
> 
> I realized going to church is for me to hear the word so I can have a better relationship with my savoir and to congregate with other Christians as the bible tells us to. I am not a poster child for Christianity and will never claim to be, but I am growing in my faith. I do not look down on anyone as if I am better for being in church and do not try to do his job in judging others.
> 
> ...


I absolutely loved your response, and found it to be educational. Thank you for taking the time. Ill join your sideline.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I was raised an atheist, and taught that the freedom of religion was one of the most important rights we have. I am now Christian, and I believe that more than ever. I feel religion is a personal matter and not to be "argued" - which would include openly judging someone on the basis of your own personal interpretation of your religion. I don't go to church every Sunday, and a lot of times when I do go I don't really understand everything they are saying. Either I am the only one that doesn't, or others pretend they "got it", too. I don't feel it is necessary for me to attend in order to be a Christian, no. But, I just have to say...while atheist may not have an "organized religion" on which to base their "judgments" of others...they judge no less than their religious counterparts. My own interpretation is that Jesus was born with fellow creatures looking on b/c they are pure of heart, do not judge and are incorruptible - i.e., they aren't human.


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## cowgirllinda1952 (Apr 15, 2013)

Ok, not to be creating more drama, but you asked, so I'll answer. I have known sooo many of these hypocrites over the years. An ex friend who constantly cheated on her husbands, had 2 babies by the affairs, prayed to God to release her crack head boyfriend from prison, took other boyfriends to church, yet she professes to be so holy!!

Another example: A woman who breeds bulldogs and has cheated and scammed so many people online, that the FBI is investigating her. On her website, she advertises to be a "Christian, Pentecostal Family, and that ropes a lot of people in, her way of explaining herself, is that since she's a christian, she's forgiven for everything she does, no matter to who, or how often. She says her mother taught her this


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## my2geldings (Feb 18, 2008)

This entire planet is full of hypocrites.


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## RedHorseRidge (Nov 3, 2012)

Regarding hypocrites and following their beliefs: I actually think following their beliefs is what makes them hypocrites on some occasions. 

For example, a couple years ago I was discussing, with an aunt, the fact that several of our local churches were welcoming gays. We both thought that was utterly fantastic! However, my SIL, a christian missionary who was visiting from Africa, was so "enraged" by our conversation she had to leave the room. She believes, in her heart, that homosexuality is wrong... so wrong, she could not bare to listen to the conversation. That's fine. However, aren't christians supposed to be open and loving to everyone, particularly those who are trying to get to know god? There seems to be a contradiction in her beliefs...if she supports gays in church, she's a hypocrite for somehow supporting that lifestyle; if she doesn't; she's a hypocrite for not welcoming everyone into church. It seems to me to be a no-win situation for her.

Regarding the OP: a study in 2012 found that highly religious people were actually less motivated by compassion to show generosity than non-religious people. It suggested that although less religious people tend to be less trusted in the US, when feeling compassion, they were more inclined than religious people to help their fellow citizens. 

Studies of US records indicate the less religious commit less crime and have longer marriages. Fundamental christians have the highest divorce rate. A worldwide study showed that criminality and religion go hand in hand... the countries with the most religious people have the highest crime rates, highest sexually transmitted diseases, and the highest teen pregnancy rates (which, BTW, also appears to be true in the US state by state). 

While I don't believe these studies necessarily show a correlation between religion and crime, it sure points out that one does not need to believe in god to be moral...


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

RedHorseRidge said:


> Regarding hypocrites and following their beliefs: I actually think following their beliefs is what makes them hypocrites on some occasions.
> 
> For example, a couple years ago I was discussing, with an aunt, the fact that several of our local churches were welcoming gays. We both thought that was utterly fantastic! However, my SIL, a christian missionary who was visiting from Africa, was so "enraged" by our conversation she had to leave the room. She believes, in her heart, that homosexuality is wrong... so wrong, she could not bare to listen to the conversation. That's fine. However, aren't christians supposed to be open and loving to everyone, particularly those who are trying to get to know god? There seems to be a contradiction in her beliefs...if she supports gays in church, she's a hypocrite for somehow supporting that lifestyle; if she doesn't; she's a hypocrite for not welcoming everyone into church. It seems to me to be a no-win situation for her.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure I accept some of those findings, but there is a correlation to the hypocrisy nonetheless.

This is I think the first time anyone has seen me quote scripture, and will likely be the last, but it is so appropriate to your post I can't help but post it...

Matthew 14, King James version...



> Because strait _is_ the gate, and narrow _is_ the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it


For good or bad, you can be the judge, the demands of Christianity (and I suspect of most, or all, religions) are higher than most people can achieve - or more appropriately are willing to achieve. The bar is set very high, and has been done so purposely. Hypocrisy is an obvious and predictable result.

From my own perspective, I believe there is meat and fluff to all religions. And I believe that, although fluff may have been useful generations ago when initial followers were sought, in this day and time of scientific knowledge and education the fluff is counterproductive. I think many people take the fluff too seriously. What is important is the meat of a religion - the basic teachings. The fluff is just that - fluff. I also think many people cannot (or do not) differentiate between the two. Because the bar is set unrealistically high, I think that hypocrisy is a unintentional byproduct, as well as a sense of failure that causes many people to turn away from their religion.

I also firmly believe - through direct observation, that people today are far weaker in character than they were in the past...largely the result of the (relatively) easy lives we lead today. It doesn't take much thought to come to the conclusion that character and hypocrisy are inversely proportional, therefore people are, in general, more hypocritical today than in the past - although that is not to say there has never been hypocrisy. There always has been, and there always will...


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

RedHorseRidge said:


> Regarding hypocrites and following their beliefs: I actually think following their beliefs is what makes them hypocrites on some occasions.
> 
> For example, a couple years ago I was discussing, with an aunt, the fact that several of our local churches were welcoming gays. We both thought that was utterly fantastic! However, my SIL, a christian missionary who was visiting from Africa, was so "enraged" by our conversation she had to leave the room. She believes, in her heart, that homosexuality is wrong... so wrong, she could not bare to listen to the conversation. That's fine. However, aren't christians supposed to be open and loving to everyone, particularly those who are trying to get to know god? There seems to be a contradiction in her beliefs...if she supports gays in church, she's a hypocrite for somehow supporting that lifestyle; if she doesn't; she's a hypocrite for not welcoming everyone into church. It seems to me to be a no-win situation for her.
> 
> ...


Although I would have to see the actual study to see if it is reliable, it sure supports what I see, even in my own family. THose of us in my own family who are "less religious", meaning we are not as rabid about it as my brother, were quite upset yesterday to find out he is in the hospital-VIA FB. Hmmm. His family thinks nothing of it, and when we called, we were told that we would be updated via FB, unless something was "dire". In the meantime, we were told just to pray for him.....As a nurse-I was pretty aghast at this attitude, honestly, but he shares it, so I guess that is what he wants. I don't get it, doubt I ever will.:?


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

It is very easy for a person to say they are a Christian. It is much more difficult to be a Christian. Far to often the ones that crow about being Christian the most are the worst examples. However people will be people and no one is perfect. I also don't think a person should decide on whether or not to go to chuch based on the people there being " hypocrites" or not. Go to church for yourself and let the others do whatever they want. I don't go to church to often simply because I don't feel a huge need. I have my own ways to commune with the good lord. Others feel the need and I do not hold that against them or think them " weak".


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Man oh man, I wound up in a converstion with a married couple who take what they hear and twist it around. They offered up that Obama is in favor or promoting abortion. No, I replied, Pro Choice. They have this idea that Pro Choice means pro abortion. Then the woman stated one state wants women who desire abortions should be forced to watch an ultrasound of the fetus. There wouldn't be much to watch as abortions aren't done after 3 mos, but I was outraged that she supported this and was so smug about it. Then the story of one state wanting to allow 14 yr old girls to have an abortion without parental consent. Then smug hubby piped up with "the downfall of the United States began when women started having abortions". I had to leave. I can't deal with pig-headed stupidity that is seemingly backed up by the bible, which I know it isn't.


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## azarni (Aug 17, 2008)

I find that almost _everyone_ is a hypocrite; hardcore religious people just make it so much more blatantly obvious. :lol: Of course there are always exceptions, but the louder one's mouth is, the fewer one's actions are. My mother always told me that people should want to become Catholic (my family's religion) by seeing how we live, not by us forcing it down their throat or _telling_ them they need to convert. If a person can see somebody living a genuinely happy, giving life, they want to know the secret. If it's religion, cool. If it's meditation, sweet. If it just happens to be a healthy, balanced lifestyle, that's perfect too. The point is that people learn a lot more when they want to, and those crazy hypocritical Christians aren't doing themselves any good at all to make it appear a desirable lifestyle.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If all the people that claim to be Christians would at least try to live by this Commandment they might find themselves to be better people
If a true Christian cant do that then they are no better than the non believers many of them tend to look down on and they have no right to call themselves Christians because it is fundamental to everything Christ stood for.


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## azarni (Aug 17, 2008)

jaydee said:


> then they are no better than the non believers


But you just put Christians on a pedestal above "non believers" and that's not very Christian of you. To _truly_ not judge others is **** near impossible; it's hardwired into our systems to analyze, evaluate and judge every human we see. Then we start adding labels like religion, race, weight, gender, intelligence, assign people to authority and believe them when they tell us which labels are better than others. You can see how much of a mess humanity has gotten itself into. :lol: In the end, a person is a person. So a person can't follow a commandment, that doesn't make them _as bad as_ anyone. It just means they can't follow a commandment. See what I'm saying?


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Saddlebag said:


> Then the woman stated one state wants women who desire abortions should be forced to watch an ultrasound of the fetus. There wouldn't be much to watch as abortions aren't done after 3 mos...
> 
> ...I had to leave. I can't deal with pig-headed stupidity that is seemingly backed up by the bible, which I know it isn't.


Using your words, I can't stand pig-headed stupidity that is seemingly backed up by ignorance. The image in the lower left corner is an ultrasound at 3 months, and the youtube video shows ultrasounds through a pregnancy - note the 13 and 14 week stage (3 months) beginning at the 2 minute mark. "There wouldn't be much to watch"? Right...

You evidently know nothing about 3-D and 4-D ultrasounds

*Fetal ultrasound - 3 months*


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

azarni said:


> *But you just put Christ*ians on a pedestal above "non believers" and that's not very Christian of you. To _truly_ not judge others is **** near impossible; it's hardwired into our systems to analyze, evaluate and judge every human we see. Then we start adding labels like religion, race, weight, gender, intelligence, assign people to authority and believe them when they tell us which labels are better than others. You can see how much of a mess humanity has gotten itself into. :lol: In the end, a person is a person. So a person can't follow a commandment, that doesn't make them _as bad as_ anyone. It just means they can't follow a commandment. See what I'm saying?


 Not me - but it is something a lot of Christians do especially when they adopt a 'holier than thou' attitude
Yes it is impossible to not judge people - to a certain extent its how we learn to protect ourselves from those in society who would in some way harm us. Its a basic survival instinct
The danger comes when you stop respecting other peoples choices and lifestyles that are no danger to you or to anyone else
I find that non Christians are able to do this just as well as Christians - but to someone who claims to believe in the word of Christ it actually should be much easier as central to their beliefs


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## azarni (Aug 17, 2008)

Not to mention that in Canada, abortions can be done MUCH later than 3 months. My sister-in-law knew a girl who had an abortion so late that* the baby could have survived if born prematurely.* Just blows my mind.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

azarni said:


> Not to mention that in Canada, abortions can be done MUCH later than 3 months. My sister-in-law knew a girl who had an abortion so late that* the baby could have survived if born prematurely.* Just blows my mind.


True, but abortions aren't the point. The point is an intolerant hypocrite calling others intolerant hypocrites.

The majority of this thread is hypocritical. We are all hypocritical to one degree or another - and I include myself in that, although I certainly try not to be - except maybe when it comes to politics. I could just as easily start a thread on how hypocritical atheists are, or how hypocritical vets or baseball players or dressage riders or housewives or women - or men - are. But to what end or for what purpose? There have been several "Christian bashing", or in this case "religion bashing" threads on here. Someone may need to jog my memory, but I don't recall seeing a "non-believer bashing" thread or an "atheist bashing" thread. 

So, perhaps some of you perceive religious folks to be hypocritical - so what?...


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

Faceman said:


> There have been several "Christian bashing", or in this case "religion bashing" threads on here. Someone may need to jog my memory, but I don't recall seeing a "non-believer bashing" thread or an "atheist bashing" thread.


You know what would break loose if anyone started a Non-Believer/Atheist Bashing Thread.

Oh, wait... do Atheist or any non-religion believer say all hell will break loose since they do not believe in heaven and hell ????

Talk about Tolerance, all the Christians on the Forum are taking these Religion Bashing Threads pretty well, imo :wink:

.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

OK-As the OP, I can say that what I had in mind when I started this thread was not to "bash" anyone, other than those whose push a belief-ANY belief- on someone else when they themselves do not "walk the walk". Part of that is them looking down on others as "non-believers" who will certainly spend eternity in hell (according to them and they let you know it at every opportunity) because they don't go to church, or think a certain way.

I would prefer that abortion stay out of this discussion. That could certainly be a thread (or several) all on its own.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

.... kinda like you're looking down on those that have strong religious beliefs ....

pot, kettle, black.

imo


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I have read soooo many judgmental posts on this thread, And most are not coming from the Christians.


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## michaelvanessa (Apr 25, 2012)

*religion.*

i am an atheast and dont beleave in god.

i would say if he did exist he must be very crule indeed as to let our love ones die.

as we are powerless to bring them back and he wont help to look at it from a point of vew are we in hell.

with wars people dieing of hunger desease and natrial disasters.

i would say this though given thought in the biblical times up to the 1890s so to speak the bible was a controle of the masses to keep them in line or suffer the raff of god so to speak.

there was a documentry on tv here and people got wages in beer and a fammin was rife and the poor people were dieing and the miller was seen as a tax colector to the church.

thay stole wheat to suvive and had small grinding stones to make flower
the church sent people round and found the grind stones and confascated them.

the poor people under greater strain started to perish and the arch bishop of england used the stones to make a patio.

i could not beleave it i think in more ways it is hypacritical.

thats my belief.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

texasgal said:


> .... kinda like you're looking down on those that have strong religious beliefs ....
> 
> pot, kettle, black.
> 
> imo


Nope-not at all. Huge difference. First, how do you have any idea how "strong" my beliefs are? I am not "looking down" on anyone. But, I do not go around professing my beliefs to pretty much everyone I see like they do, or telling them they are damned for eternity to purgatory because they have a drink, or do something I do not believe in. I certainly was not taught that in Sunday school, and think that is about as "unchristian" as it gets! I prefer to keep them to myself, and as such, prefer not to be preached to. (or at) So, therein lies the difference. I could not care less what they believe anymore than they care what I do. Just keep it to yourself, worship in your own way, and allow others to do the same.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Taffy Clayton said:


> I have read soooo many judgmental posts on this thread, And most are not coming from the Christians.


How do you KNOW who is "Christian" and who is not? Certainly cannot tell by the way they act-at least not reliably. Unless they have STATED what they are or are not you have no idea.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If she's looking down on anyone at all its people who claim to have strong beliefs that they want to defend to the very last but for some reason cant seem to be bothered to live in accordance to what Christ taught.
She isn't accusing all Christians of being like that
Speaking as someone who very much wants to believe there is something other than just a black hole out there when we die and finds it hard to think that Christ isn't the son of God I gave up on Churches a long time ago - and I've tried most of them - because so many of the people don't even seem to want to try to live up to what he taught which does make them hypocrites. If anything they were destroying my beliefs not strengthening them


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> How do you KNOW who is "Christian" and who is not? Certainly cannot tell by the way they act-at least not reliably. Unless they have STATED what they are or are not you have no idea.


Several have stated their beliefs or non beliefs, and the other Christian bashers on this thread, if indeed they are Christians are acting just like the people they are complaining about, very "non-Christian-like". 
Judging people, just the way the "super religious" do, that they are complaining about. 

I find the super religious no more offensive than all the Super non religious, who are always telling what bs my faith is and trying to debate me on my beliefs.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't consider recognizing peoples failings to be the same as judging them for those failings as judging implies you would somehow want to punish and I don't think that's at all the right attitude. 
If people want to 'let the side down' then that's up to them. 
If you don't like the way someone is then you mostly just avoid them.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Taffy Clayton said:


> Several have stated their beliefs or non beliefs, and the other Christian bashers on this thread, if indeed they are Christians are acting just like the people they are complaining about, very "non-Christian-like".
> Judging people, just the way the "super religious" do, that they are complaining about.
> 
> I find the super religious no more offensive than all the Super non religious, who are always telling what bs my faith is and trying to debate me on my beliefs.


And no debate will happen unless you wear your beliefs on your sleeve


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

jaydee said:


> If she's looking down on anyone at all its people who claim to have strong beliefs that they want to defend to the very last but for some reason cant seem to be bothered to live in accordance to what Christ taught.
> She isn't accusing all Christians of being like that
> Speaking as someone who very much wants to believe there is something other than just a black hole out there when we die and finds it hard to think that Christ isn't the son of God I gave up on Churches a long time ago - and I've tried most of them - because so many of the people don't even seem to want to try to live up to what he taught which does make them hypocrites. If anything they were destroying my beliefs not strengthening them


Which relates to what I said earlier - it is not easy to be a "good" Christian - it's probably not easy to be a "good" Jew or Muslim, or a "good" member of any other religion.

....................sidebar..................

Let's call a spade a spade here and step back and look at ourselves. Greed, hypocrisy, prejudice, promiscuity, the desire to take what we want, pride, taking advantage of those that are weaker - all are basic natural human behaviors that manifest themselves in all sorts of ways - some pretty serious and some rather mild and relatively innocuous. Whether it is due to religion, laws, or our own personal principles that we each have decided is the "right" way to live, we all curb those natural feelings and behaviors we have and try to follow those principles either we, our religion, or the law have established for us to peacefully coexist with one another. But NONE of us are perfect - we ALL fall short of living by those principles at times. How many of us have not cheated on a boyfriend, girlfriend or spouse or have never stolen anything whatsoever or have never fudged on our income taxes or have never had prejudicial thoughts about one group or another or any number of other things that are contrary to the principles we have set for ourselves? The answer, of course, is none of us - humans are rational beings and we make our own choices, but we still have underlying instincts that we struggle to suppress. We can't just flip a switch and turn off 2 million years of instincts. Why do you think we are afraid of the dark, or of snakes, or spiders or any number of other fears? They are instinctive fears - there is certainly nothing rational about being afraid of the dark - it's not like in this day and time something out there is gong to eat us.

What I don't understand is why pick on one group or another? Again - none of us are perfect - not as individuals, and certainly not as a group. There are horribly, moderately, and mildly hypocritical religious folks, as well as religious folks who don't appear to be hypocritical at all, and exactly the same can be said about folks who do not believe in any type of deity at all. This thread is largely like a group of tuna making fun of catfish because catfish breathe water, or a flock of buzzards making fun of turkey vultures because they eat carrion. It is downright silly.

The most disturbing thing to me is if we had threads bashing blacks or women, or homosexuals, or fat people or mentally challenged people, the very same people that bash Christians or religious folks would be screaming bloody murder. Now how consistent is that? And how hypocritical is that?

All skunks stink - to arbitrarily select one and belittle him for stinking as if he were the only skunk in the world that stinks, is silly, unproductive, and in this particular case considering 73% of Americans identify themselves as religious, rather insulting, inflammatory, and without constructive purpose...


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

And most people understand just that. Everyone is HUMAN. Bottom line. I only have an issue with those who literally take a "Holier than thou" attitude-literally, and proceed to tell me how "holy" they are all the while telling me I am not. THAT is my point.


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## texasgal (Jul 25, 2008)

So you have a problem with PUSHY people. Me too. I've had people try to tell me how to discipline my kids, drive, feed my horse, dress. 

I usually just disregard if it's not what I believe. *shrug*


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Face, you got me on this one. I was told the fetus was barely larger than a large kidney bean. What this lady doesn't seem to understand is that women usually don't make that decision lightly, often with a lot of personal torment. There are many issues whereby people should just mind their own affairs and not try to dictate to others or pass judgement.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> And no debate will happen unless you wear your beliefs on your sleeve



I don't understand you! Do you wear your beliefs on your sleeve? 

Is there no debate from non believers, unless I am wearing my religion on my sleeve? My religion is part of me. It is part of my foundation. My name is a Christian name, I went to a Sacred Heart School for 13 years.
You are judging me.

Yet you, who profess to keep your religion to yourself, get judged all the time by Christians. Go figure?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Taffy-I am not sure how to be more clear. I did not say anywhere that this happens "all the time" at all. On a day to day basis-yes, I keep my religious beliefs to myself, which would mean NO, I do not wear them on my sleeve. I do not make a huge deal over having to to go church every sunday like some do as an example, eating fish on friday, etc....., and BTW-what is a "christian name" ?? What would be a "non-christian name" (other than the obvious ones that are muslim, hebrew, etc.)? What makes it a "christian" name? 

I also went to some religious schools, so the fact that you throw that out there has no influence on my thoughts. But, you are a perfect example of certainly appearing to think you are better because you have a "christian name" and you went to a "sacred heart school" for some 13 years. Well goody for you. Only tells me that your knowledge may be rather one sided. JMHO, and I can only tell by what YOU put out there. YOU are the one who had to throw those up. Not me. I have seen both sides of education, and realize that the time I spent in college taking the mandatory theology, and writing papers on the grace of god, I could have been learning about my chosen field. JMHO, which I am entitled to, as are you.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Taffy-I am not sure how to be more clear. I did not say anywhere that this happens "all the time" at all. On a day to day basis-yes, I keep my religious beliefs to myself, which would mean NO, I do not wear them on my sleeve. I do not make a huge deal over having to to go church every sunday like some do as an example, eating fish on friday, etc....., and BTW-what is a "christian name" ?? What would be a "non-christian name" (other than the obvious ones that are muslim, hebrew, etc.)? What makes it a "christian" name?
> 
> I also went to some religious schools, so the fact that you throw that out there has no influence on my thoughts. But, you are a perfect example of certainly appearing to think you are better because you have a "christian name" and you went to a "sacred heart school" for some 13 years. Well goody for you. Only tells me that your knowledge may be rather one sided. JMHO, and I can only tell by what YOU put out there. YOU are the one who had to throw those up. Not me. I have seen both sides of education, and realize that the time I spent in college taking the mandatory theology, and writing papers on the grace of god, I could have been learning about my chosen field. JMHO, which I am entitled to, as are you.


Thank you for your judgement of me!!!
I merely stated that I do not have to wear my religious beliefs to have people know that I am a Christian. Take it anyway your judgmental self wishes. You who insult my beliefs by calling them BS. I stated I went to a Sacred heart school for some 13 years to reiterate that my religion is my foundation.
I never stated or thought I am better than anyone here, Where did you see that. You are assuming an awful lot about me. While I never judged you one bit. 
If you didn't want to take the mandatory curriculum at you chosen college, you should have gone to a different school, why do you say that to me anyway, Are you now showing you are better than me because I didn't go to a private college? I didn't assume that of you. like you assumed it of me. As for my Christian name? Maybe you should have gone to more Theology classes at that Christian school you disliked so much.

You are the Hypocrite here.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Taffy Clayton said:


> Thank you for your judgement of me!!!
> I merely stated that I do not have to wear my religious beliefs to have people know that I am a Christian. Take it anyway your judgmental self wishes. You who insult my beliefs by calling them BS. I stated I went to a Sacred heart school for some 13 years to reiterate that my religion is my foundation.
> I never stated or thought I am better than anyone here, Where did you see that. You are assuming an awful lot about me. While I never judged you one bit.
> If you didn't want to take the mandatory curriculum at you chosen college, you should have gone to a different school, why do you say that to me anyway, Are you now showing you are better than me because I didn't go to a private college? I didn't assume that of you. like you assumed it of me. As for my Christian name? Maybe you should have gone to more Theology classes at that Christian school you disliked so much.
> ...


Wow. You have to be joking. You are so far out there I cannot even have a rational discussion. YOU are the one who was all about your name being "christian", etc. YOU are the one who brought it up. As for where I went to school-how would I possibly have any idea where you went or whether it was private or not? So how would it even be possible that I said that to seem bettr than you? Yikes. Honestly-I think you have made my point better than I ever could. Thanks. :wink:


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## Delfina (Feb 12, 2010)

franknbeans said:


> On a day to day basis-yes, I keep my religious beliefs to myself, which would mean NO, I do not wear them on my sleeve. I do not make a huge deal over having to to go church every sunday like some do as an example, eating fish on friday, etc.....,


It seems that some people practically make their religion seem like a dreadful chore. My mother is the first to go on and on and on about how blah, blah, blah part of her religion is causing her all this distress and how she's such a wonderful person for willingly doing it. Whereas a very religious individual, that I work with, you wouldn't have a clue that she was except for her clothing.

What really makes me snicker is when religious people view pastors/priests/etc.. as practically god-like and therefore exempt from what is considered normalcy. My parents pastor was recently asked to resign and my mother is all up in arms about it. According to her "It's not like he had an affair or is a homosexual or anything like THAT"! No, the elders of the church finally pulled their heads out of their rears and realized they were paying this guy 75K a year for the past 25 years!!!!! and he couldn't be bothered to actually SHOW UP to anything but the Sunday Service. He literally tried to bail out of doing my wedding the day prior (yes, both he and the church were being paid at a non-negotiable rate set by them) stood people up continuously for counseling appts., was hardly if ever found at the church during what was supposed to be business hours and on and on and on. 

Any other occupation and nobody would even question a firing for failure to show up but Pastor? According to my mother the church should have just hired someone else to do all his actual *work* and kept him on at full salary of course. :?


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Whatever religion one states they are, what religion they actual are, and what someone else thinks they are can be entirely different things - and all them depend on some sort of judgement. When I was an atheist other atheist told me I couldn't be atheist b/c I was superstitious. Oh, how judgmental! It left indelible scars, not.


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## SouthernTrails (Dec 19, 2008)

.

Most people are judgmental when something does not go along with their beliefs or thoughts.

Hypocritical? Look up the definition; it says Politician, not religion :wink: 

Often "Super" (fill in blank) means radical, we all know what that label does, has nothing to do with religion, just look at some of the PITA members :lol:

.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

SouthernTrailsGA said:


> .
> 
> Most people are judgmental when something does not go along with their beliefs or thoughts.
> 
> ...


PITA? (Pain in the a** members?) HAHA! You mean PETA right? :rofl:


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> PITA? (Pain in the a** members?) HAHA! You mean PETA right? :rofl:


Great morning chuckle! Thank you, ST GA and Muppetgirl!


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Saddlebag said:


> Face, you got me on this one. I was told the fetus was barely larger than a large kidney bean. What this lady doesn't seem to understand is that women usually don't make that decision lightly, often with a lot of personal torment. There are many issues whereby people should just mind their own affairs and not try to dictate to others or pass judgement.


I wasn't trying to "get" you - just pointing out technology has come a long way. As usual, I could have done it a bit more tactfully...


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Muppetgirl said:


> PITA? (Pain in the a** members?) HAHA! You mean PETA right? :rofl:


 I think maybe he did mean PITA members
After all PETA members are so far above the rest of us he couldn't possibly mean them could he?


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## RedHorseRidge (Nov 3, 2012)

Faceman said:


> What I don't understand is why pick on one group or another?


I'm going to hold you to this thought when you start using your "interesting adjectives" on liberals... : )


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

^^^^ No comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jennakaaate (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm a Christian, but I'm far from perfect. I admit to being a hypocrite, lying, being judgmental, and straying away from God. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm an awful person..Just a human that needs improvement, like everybody else. I live in the Bible belt and I don't go to church regularly. Honestly, there's not a church around me that I actually feel God in. Most of them just feel empty. However, the church that my dad goes to is awesome. I can stay in there all day and feel like only an hour has passed by. There's no judgment of anybody there, and all denominations are welcome. The pastor actually used to be addicted to alcohol, then he found God. The church is filled with many addicts, because it's right down the street from the rehab that my dad is a manager of. But everyone is treated the same, no discrimination or anything. This church just makes me happy. In fact, I spent a whole summer with my dad just so I could go to this church so many days a week. And let me tell you..Spending a summer in rehab is humbling. I even went to a Bible study that the women held in their hall. I'll never forget it or the church. However, my dad lives 3 hours away and I can't stay at the rehab anymore (new rules). :/ I miss the church and the people there. It was very genuine and honest. I always went in with a smile on my face and left wanting more. But the churches around here just aren't the same. I can't feel God's presence in them. 
I didn't mean to get all preachy, but that's my story and experience with churches.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

^^^^Admitting our failings and facing up to them is the first step to dealing with them and becoming a better person


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

RedHorseRidge said:


> I'm going to hold you to this thought when you start using your "interesting adjectives" on liberals... : )


Did you not read my post previous to that one, or do liberals just have an incredibly short memory to go along with their inability to read? (you mean like that?...:rofl



> We are all hypocritical to one degree or another - and I include myself in that, although I certainly try not to be - except maybe when it comes to politics.


Politics is fair game - hardly in the same category with someone's religion, race, gender, or ethnicity...


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## BigNickMontana (Aug 5, 2013)

There is nothing that will make me cringe more than when someone walks up to me and says "Hey brother you been saved?"

Religion and spirituality, just not my thing, I have a complete sense of disinterest. 

And on that note years ago I was working for a fencing company in Texas doing all of their access controls. The owner of the company was a very religious man, and well he used his religion to literally steal from people by writing bills for things they did not receive, inflating prices, and he would hire someone who was in the country legally to sub contract, then have them hire 15 illegals to come in and do the work so as that he had a shield from the law. 

Every time he was confronted about what he was doing he hid behind his religion and would go off about what a good christian he is and all he does for his church and the community that surrounds it all the while absolutely screwing people. 

I remember one job I went out on, nice elderly lady, had just had hip replacement surgery so she was not getting around very well so she had an electric gate operator installed on her gate so she would not have to get in and out of her car to get through her gate. 

After a couple of weeks the unit stopped working, they had been out there several times to trouble shoot it until I got called, mind you this is now about 5 months after the operator had been installed. 

I get there, no power to the unit, but there is power at the junction box in her garage. I hooked up my welder and fired it up and used it to cycle the gate, the guys who did the install did not put enough concrete in, and the unit was moving as it tried to pull the gate, I figured what had happened was that the movement broke the pipe and cut the wire. 

So I cut the power, pulled the unit from the pad, pulled the pad up and no broken pipe, so I started digging back, I get about 4 feet back and what do I find? a split in the pipe and something else buried there that the wires run into. I dig a bit more, what do I find? the wire had been spliced inside of a... TEXAS TOAST BREAD BAG! 

I cut the whole taped up bread bag mess off the end of the wire, hooked my meter up, turned the power back on, all of the sudden I have power. 

About this time the home owner showed up, I handed her the bag and told her I had found the problem and that I'd be back the next morning to fix everything right. 

The next day I did, I drilled holes into the gate track footing, pounded rebar into them then welded studs to that which would come out of the pad for the operator to mount on, then I built a form ran the pipe for the phone and power into it, then poured the concrete. 

The next day I came back, pulled a brand new run of wire to the house, and it was when I took the measurements I found out what had happened, the distance from the operator to the j box in the garage was 104 feet including what it took to go down the wall into the trench, and back up from the trench to the operator. The idiot who did the install stopped at the electrical supply and bought 100' of wire, and when they came up short they spliced more on with the bag instead of getting the proper length of wire and doing it right. 

Finally I got everything reinstalled and working properly, and I even programmed her remote to open the garage door and the gate with different buttons, she had 2 remotes before, so she was very pleased and could not thank me enough. 

When I got back to the shop I set the bread bag splice on the owners desk and handed him my paperwork showing what I had to do, and he turned green when I told him that the last 4 days worth of work were going to be a warranty job. 

He then started to go berserk asking what we could charge for and I told him nothing because it was his installer who did such a hacked off job of putting the thing in. 

Well instead of doing the right thing and writing the job off as a warranty, he sent her a bill for full price which was about 33 hours at 75.00 an hour. The same day he called me into his office and demanded that I go to work for less money. 

Needless to say I turned in my final paperwork to get paid on, he tried paying me at the lower rate, I refused, told him I quit and that I was going to sue, finally after talking to his business partner I got paid full price. 

The woman called me hysterical when she got the bill because she had my number, and I advised her to sue him and told her I would testify. 

It was a really dumb thing to do on the owners part because I kept the bread bag splice. I wound up dropping it off to her attorney's office. I never got called on to testify, I did bump into the lady at the store a few months later though, she couldn't thank me enough and said that the owner wound up not only writing off the bill for the warranty job, he also wound up agreeing to pay her legal fees and gave her some of her money back on the initial install. 

It was just such a disgusting thing to watch happen. 

Then the guy trying to get back at me, he wrote it off on my 1099 as though he had paid me 40 grand more than he actually had. Luckily I had documentation on everything I did that year, so it allowed me to show the IRS he was lying. 

Everything he did there though he hid behind his religion, and acted as though he was above reproach because he was a devout religious man.


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## RedHorseRidge (Nov 3, 2012)

Faceman said:


> Did you not read my post previous to that one, or do liberals just have an incredibly short memory to go along with their inability to read? (you mean like that?...:rofl
> 
> Sure I did... I was saying perhaps you need a "gentle reminder" when you start picking on one group or another...
> 
> ...


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## dbarabians (May 21, 2011)

Religion is a very personal subject and we should tread lightly when discussing it.
I do not see the OPs original thread as christian bashing.
There are super religious people from different faiths, mine included, that use the claim of being a loyal follower to justify their less than kind behavior.
Religion can be a very positive influence , or it can be a negative one.
its the negative things we hear about and remember the most. Shalom


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## Godgirl (Jul 11, 2013)

it would be wonderful if as soon as you became a christian all your human nature would go away and you became an angel. we all make mistakes and it is a bummer when anybody is hypocritical but life happens.
people who are not christians and "super religious" can make the same mistakes we make. people just notice it more often because christians are normally viewed as if they should be "perfect" or never making any mistakes.
Truth is we are all human just like you.


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## Jessabel (Mar 19, 2009)

The Christian school I attended for many years was what finally sent me running from Christianity. I never connected with the faith to begin with, but as I got older and began to think for myself, I realized that I was being programmed like a robot.

Every day, it was the same theme song. The bible says this, the bible tells us to do this. Obey or burn in hell. The hypocrisy was the least of the problems. 

And I know it can happen with any religion. Christians are just the ones that I've had the most exposure to.


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