# Polish Arab and Arab?



## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Not being an Arab expert, can some please tell me the difference between a Polish Arab and an Arab......origins, conformation differences anything good or different between the two? Thanks!


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

Polish arab is just the "type" of arab. It more or less comes down mainly to breeding origins. Spanish Arab, Egyptian Arab, Crabbet, etc.

I'd give a better explanation, but it's not easy to do from my phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Freemare (Jun 2, 2012)

Take a look at Arabian horse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia it will tell you everything you need to know about the breeding of arabs.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

they are all Arabs and come from the same historical origins the only diffenece is the blood lines used, so the polish arabs tend to have bred along the hardier, shorter lines better for all round work but slightly less pretty (form over function). 
Egyptian arabs tend to be bred lighter, taller and prettier.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Polish Arabs are a _type_ of Arabian. Every type is still an Arabian, but each were bred for characteristics that a particular State stud or breeder was trying to bring out.

For example, Polish Arabians were originally bred for stamina, good bone, and performance abilities. The dished heads were thrown by the wayside, since they weren't important to what the Polish Stud was trying to accomplish. Polish Arabs tend to have straighter profiles, but there's no mistaking that they're Arabians.

The differences between the types of Arabians shouldn't be as blatant as they're starting to be. If you have to look at a horse more than once to figure out it's _supposed_ to be a purebred Arabian, something's wrong.

Arabians were originally compact, short coupled little horses with excellent bone structures. They were hardy animals, and rarely needed shoes or major medical attention because they tended to stay healthy. With the advent of today's 'super model' Arabians all of that is changing, and not for the better in my opinion.

There never used to be breedings _just_ for halter horses. You bred for the best all around horse possible.

Free, I'd never consider Wikipedia the 'go to' expert on_ anything_, and especially not for breeding live animals.


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

Welcome to Arabian Horses.org - Education


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok thanks.....one other question here, and this might be an interesting one....I've heard that Arabs have really tough feet....which would make sense I guess due to origin and purpose, so they feet have 'evolved' or they have been bred for that particular trait, and a very good trait it is. Has there ever been any study or does anyone know if the dished face is just a characteristic or does it serve a function? For instance like a zebras stripes helps it confuse a predator....


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

The jibah (the dish) as far as I know was just a specific identifying characteristic of the breed and didn't serve any kind of survival purpose - I may be wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

The original Arabians were bred for hardiness, so I think the toughness of the feet may have been a natural characteristic, and once noticed, horses with good feet were actually bred for that trait. 

As far as the dished heads, I think that was just a natural mutation that some people found attractive, so continued to breed for it. Some strains like the Shagya don't have pronounced jibbahs, while others do.

So to answer your question in a roundabout way, both were probably original mutations that people noticed and bred for.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok, thanks again!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Flawless! !!!!!!....well, almost;-)
The Shagya is not a strain, it is a seperate breed, an Arabian crossed with local mares, started in Hungary, to produce a carriage and military horse with the pretty of the Arab, but slightly bigger and heavier. 

As for Polish Arab and Arab....any Arabian with documents from a WAHO (world Arabian horse association) acknowledged Arabian registry is a purebred Arabian. 
Poland, Russia for example, did their selection through racing, Germany tested all the stallions under saddle, jumping, dressage, cross country, against warmbloods, before allowing them to breed. Spain bred for Spanish looks, the Andalusian neck and movement, and so on. You used to be able by looking at an Arabian where he came from. Nowadays that is rather rare. 
Unfortunately people have forgotten what an Arabian used to be, hardy, sound, people friendly intelligent, a horse who can do anything with grace, style and beauty. Now it's all about pretty for the halter show.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

You're correct, I was thinking of the Kehil/Siglavi strain, not of the Shagya as a separate breed.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Polish Arabians are those desecened from Poland. Like Spanish, Eypgtian, Russians...I've a real soft spot for pure polish Arabians and once I'm healed and have focused on my stallions, I would love to look at getting a few PP mares to cross on my Ecaho son. 

Polish arabians tend to have big bone, nice deep heart girth, big croup, big hooves and incredible legs. Most of the time they have old Polish breeding. TA Mozart and Kalaoch were champions in Reining and Working Cow this year, and both are Pure Polish sons of Kordelas. You also get alot of strains of polish Arabians that excel in racing. 

CMK and Russian Arabians tend to exhibit alot of same traits as the Polish Arabians. Alot of previous reining or working cow champs have been Aurab or Muscat decendants, and you still see alot of them today. 
Khemosabi was another one that, although being a tiny guy himself, through a lot of substantial horses, and still have a huge influence in the working western scene today. Although he's high percentage Crabbet (CMK), he's considered Early American Foundation.

The Jibbah is natural to the Arabian, although people have been known to wrap bands around faces of young foals to get the dish pronouced. I haven't heard of this happening in a LONG time though. Although, I suppose, you never know. 
Older Polish lines tend not to be the most extreme dished Arabs (although my Ecaho son is one of my typiest) but I'd rahter have a big body with super legs over a pretty face anyday. SE's tend to have the most dished faces. 

Once you start looking at all the little sublets and whatnot in Arabian breeding, it's quite a maze! 
The term Pure Polish is just an Noth American made term - meaning those that trace only back to those coming from Poland. Any horse in Poland is still pure polish, even when outcrossed with stallions such as Ali Jamaal. 
CMK Arabians are those that were imported by those three individuals, but can also be list as Al Khasma or Blue Star, which are the same as many Straight Eypgtians. 
So even though the bloodlines have nothing in common (being CMK and Straight Eygptian) you can get a 100% SE, Al Khasma, Blue List horse, and also a 100% CMK, Al Khasma, Blue List horse. 
Takes a lot of sorting out!


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok, now that we've figured that out (swirling brain! Lol!) would someone so kindly post pics of each type....I could go look but I'd like a more trained eye to select out good type pics of each type....the Spanish Arab is a new one to me! I'm also wondering, does the overly ecsentuated dish in some Arabs narrow the airways at all? Like pug dogs with their shortened pallets?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Sorry, but Kordelas is not pure Polish.....through Aswan Russian, Panel - Nil- Sid Abouhom = Egyptian. Monogramm = Russian. Negatraz - Negativ - Naseem = Russian. 
So he is polish-russian;-)


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> Ok, now that we've figured that out (swirling brain! Lol!) would someone so kindly post pics of each type....I could go look but I'd like a more trained eye to select out good type pics of each type....the Spanish Arab is a new one to me! I'm also wondering, does the overly ecsentuated dish in some Arabs narrow the airways at all? Like pug dogs with their shortened pallets?


it does. That's why the Bedouins sold the overly dished horses to the foreigners


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Sorry, but Kordelas is not pure Polish.....through Aswan Russian, Panel - Nil- Sid Abouhom = Egyptian. Monogramm = Russian. Negatraz - Negativ - Naseem = Russian.
> So he is polish-russian;-)


Oops, you're right! I meant predominately Polish. Why we have all these pre-fixes... LOL


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Ok, now that we've figured that out (swirling brain! Lol!) would someone so kindly post pics of each type....I could go look but I'd like a more trained eye to select out good type pics of each type....the Spanish Arab is a new one to me! I'm also wondering, does the overly ecsentuated dish in some Arabs narrow the airways at all? Like pug dogs with their shortened pallets?


I LOVE Spanish Arabians! I had a gelding I just sold out of Nina Querida, one of the most accomplished imported Spanish mares to the US. 
His bone, hooves, and legs were incredible. Put a lot of the local QH's I rode with to shame.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

My heart horse's paternal granddam was Spanish, although his pedigree was mostly Crabbet. I always used to say his paternal grandmama gave him his fire, sass, and 'tude!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I had a LH Garcia (AN Malik) granddaughter. Although that was the only Spanish line she had, it sure showed. A neck many a stallion would kill for, good bone and the Spanish eye.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> I LOVE Spanish Arabians! I had a gelding I just sold out of Nina Querida, one of the most accomplished imported Spanish mares to the US.
> His bone, hooves, and legs were incredible. Put a lot of the local QH's I rode with to shame.


Do you think the Spanish lines were bred more towards being a good bridle horse? (its on my bucket list to vacation in Spain and ride a bridle horse!)


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

This is all very interesting!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Good, all around Arabians were and still _are_ bred for performance regardless of the country in which they're bred, so I'm thinking you should be able to find a ton of great riding Arabs in Spain. :wink:


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Muppetgirl said:


> Do you think the Spanish lines were bred more towards being a good bridle horse? (its on my bucket list to vacation in Spain and ride a bridle horse!)


They were originally bred to resemble the Andalusian( a matter of taste of course), so I'm pretty sure you can find them, trained Spanish vaquero style.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Speed Racer said:


> Good, all around Arabians were and still _are_ bred for performance regardless of the country in which they're bred, so I'm thinking you should be able to find a ton of great riding Arabs in Spain. :wink:


Yeah, I really value in any breed a horse that's bred to be useful.....eye candy and arm candy doesn't cut it! Lol!


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Muppetgirl said:


> Yeah, I really value in any breed a horse that's bred to be useful.....eye candy and arm candy doesn't cut it! Lol!


Exactly! I want a useful horse as well as a useful SO! Pretty is nice, but unless it's backed up with usefulness, no thank you. :clap:


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

This here is *Erros (El Paso x Eskapada). You can see the width of chest, big girth, incredible hip on this guy - this is Polish at some of it's finest.










Ecaho:










Negatraz:










Aulrab, CMK:










Muscat, Russian:










Khemosabi, Early American Foundation:










Vallehermoso, Spanish:










TDR White Stone, Straight Epgytian:


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I remember seeing so many of the famous stallions at the Arabian Nationals back in the day. If you think their pictures are impressive, you should have seen them live! 

Muscat made quite the impression, and Khemo was just simply drop dead gorgeous. Both useful stallions, as they went on to win performance classes as well as halter championships. Le sigh.....


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> This here is *Erros (El Paso x Eskapada). You can see the width of chest, big girth, incredible hip on this guy - this is Polish at some of it's finest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thankyou!! If I had my pick, Erros would be for me. Solid looking animal for sure! All lovely though!


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The arabian I had was a grandson of Grojec and he didnt have a particularly dished face at all and like his ancestor was quite stockily built and very versatile - no spindly thing that looked like his legs would break on the first bit of rough ground
You can find old pics of arabians on sites like All Breeds Pedigree and its interesting to see that the further back you go the more functional the horse looks. They had to carry a man across rough inhospitable terrain so needed to have a lot of power and stamina.
Sand is surprisingly really hard on hooves so I would think that the horses with the hardest hooves survived better and were more prized.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Yeah, I really value in any breed a horse that's bred to be useful.....eye candy and arm candy doesn't cut it! Lol!


Useful? 

Here are a few of my favourite boys. 

TA Mozart:



















Hesa Zee:



















Crown Musc:










Al-Marah Matt Dillon:










Xenophonn:










Kakhem Sahib:












okay, I'm good.... LOL


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I've always adore the Al Marah horses, WSA. They still breed for a well put together, attractive, useful Arabian. 

Not that any of those others you posted are slouches in the looks or usefulness department, either. :wink:


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Speed Racer said:


> I've always adore the Al Marah horses, WSA. They still breed for a well put together, attractive, useful Arabian.
> 
> Not that any of those others you posted are slouches in the looks or usefulness department, either. :wink:


Ah, they have some incredible atheletes. I wish I could pick a mare from each of these programs. LOL
Well, I could. I wish I was a millionaire to afford to pick a mare from each program. :lol:


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> Useful?
> 
> Here are a few of my favourite boys.
> 
> ...


Wow! Those are really good looking horses! Especially nice to see them WORKING!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Gharib al(Anter x Suhair), straight Egyptian, sold to Weill Marbach state stud Germany


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hadhan Enzahi, Egyptian, main stallion at Weill when Gharib was imported


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Hadban Enzahi daughters at Weill, to be bred to Gharib
clones....


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## goneriding (Jun 6, 2011)

I like Asfour's son Sadik but his head is a tad too extreme. I have always like Anaza Bay Shahh. This farm has some nice horses with great pedigree's. I am sure if I could afford one of their horses, they would graciously send me some pictures front/rear/side on pavement or hard ground of my potential purchase.:lol:

:: Simeon Stud :: Stallions and Colts ::


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Asfour's sire, Malik


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

This is my lad, he is largly polish with a bit of crabbet

























and his father


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Lovely, Faye! What's his pedigree?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Out of curiosity, would anyone be able to tell me what my Arabs' types would be?

Estrella V:









RR Maddux:


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

Russian, Egyptian, Polish, and Crabbet
NICE lines!

Pics??


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Mainly Polish, a tad Russian and Egyptian and domestic, Crabbet. 
Anything PASB is straight Polish. The line to Aswan is Russian, but Aswan himself was Egyptian.
The " Bey" lines are what some call domestic bred.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

On of my friends owns AJ Muscatt now, she got him after he was retired and gelded (well after he was smuggled into the US). Even at 27 (28?) he's sound for light riding, keeps weight on well, and knows what he wants. He's not an easy ride, but once you develop a relationship with him and he knows you're serious, he's a pleasure. AJ still likes to put on a show and prance and gallop about in the field when the mood strikes him.

I've always been a fan of the Polish and Russian Arabs. My first horse that I rode regularly and without supervision was my friend's 8yo Polish gelding that had been a stud until 6. Apparently he never acted it before or after though. He is a wonderful, willing horse and very forgiving of a novice rider!


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Druydess said:


> Russian, Egyptian, Polish, and Crabbet
> NICE lines!
> 
> Pics??





deserthorsewoman said:


> Mainly Polish, a tad Russian and Egyptian and domestic, Crabbet.
> Anything PASB is straight Polish. The line to Aswan is Russian, but Aswan himself was Egyptian.
> The " Bey" lines are what some call domestic bred.


 Interesting! And yes, tons of pics.

Facebook


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Those are some VERY well bred horses. Sundance Kid V is my favourite Desperado V son, and that line did extremely well in the working western disciplines. Sheila Varian has the art of breeding Arabians down to pat and you just can't go wrong with a "V" bred horse! 

And then, of course, you had in Bados, Palas, and El Paso? Beautiful.

Do you own Sillver Belle?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I absolutely adore Sundance Kid V.

Estrella has Varian Arabs listed as her breeder; my aunt and uncle bought her from them. They own my colt's sire Ramblin' Mr V (shown in reining/reined cow horse) and his dam, Sillver Belle.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

equiniphile said:


> I absolutely adore Sundance Kid V.
> 
> Estrella has Varian Arabs listed as her breeder; my aunt and uncle bought her from them. They own my colt's sire Ramblin' Mr V (shown in reining/reined cow horse) and his dam, Sillver Belle.


I don't reckon they are selling her, eh?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

WSArabians said:


> I don't reckon they are selling her, eh?


Acutally, they might be. They're downsizing their herd to just a few. :wink:


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

equiniphile said:


> Acutally, they might be. They're downsizing their herd to just a few. :wink:


Ohio is kind of far, and I wasn't really looking to buy until my leg/hip heals... But that's what I want. Would be nice if she were ten years younger, of course. LOL
Do you have photo's?


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

WSArabians said:


> Ohio is kind of far, and I wasn't really looking to buy until my leg/hip heals... But that's what I want. Would be nice if she were ten years younger, of course. LOL
> Do you have photo's?


She's actually in CO. I don't think I have any photos, unfortunately, but I'll see if I got any from my last trip out there.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

equiniphile said:


> She's actually in CO. I don't think I have any photos, unfortunately, but I'll see if I got any from my last trip out there.


Hhmm... Colorado is way closer... 
Would love to see some photo's  
When was her last foal?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Thankyou!! If I had my pick, Erros would be for me. Solid looking animal for sure! All lovely though!


Yes, he sure is stunning!
I LOVE my Erros g-granddaughter.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

WSArabians,
This is his breeding:
Centurian Arabian
He was stood as a stallion in his younger years however when the stud downsized they decided to keep his father instead of the young stallion (given that they were in thier 80's i cant blame them). He was gelded to give him a better life. Unfortunatly his father broke a leg 2 weeks later. Rian was the only male purebred from his line.


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## cheri56 (Jan 10, 2013)

Arabs bred in different areas have different strengths. Egyptians lines are more dishy in the face, taller overall... Russian tend more bulky as far as arabs get I think.... takes a bit of study to really tell the difference and decide what you prefer. Kinf od like the QH can be tall and thin for the track and H/J of short and bulky for the cow people. Still QH just different versions.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Ok this is good! I feel like I'm getting educated! If a person were to look at an Arab to purchase, what should one REALLY look for, apart from typical PPE stuff.....also are there any health or genetic predispositions to watch for (eg. Like Impressive lines in QHs) ........what do you look for, test for, and what do you avoid?


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Ok this is good! I feel like I'm getting educated! If a person were to look at an Arab to purchase, what should one REALLY look for, apart from typical PPE stuff.....also are there any health or genetic predispositions to watch for (eg. Like Impressive lines in QHs) ........what do you look for, test for, and what do you avoid?


 
Yup, absolutely.

CA - Cerebellar Abiotrophy - Found in any type of Arabian. Two carriers will, 99% of the time, result in a dead foal. My guy in my avatar is by *Ecaho ( N/CA) and MS Adrianna Bey (N/CA) and of the roughly 3500 horses listed, he is only one of four (last time I checked) that is CA N/N out of two carrier parents.
N/N - CA Clear
N/CA - CA Carrier
CA/CA - CA Affected
List of horses posted:
CA MAIN Status List

SCID - Severe Combined Immunodeficiency - Once again found is all types of Arabians. Foals are born with severly affected immune systems.

LFS - Lavender Foal Syndrome - Most often found only in Straight Eygptian Arabians, and is an inherited neurological disease.

Those ones are specficially Arabian related, but you can get other's that are found in all other breeds such as GPT, JIE, and OAAM. 

EVERY one of these diseases are able to be verified by genetic testing. 
If you don't test and breed two carriers, you don't have much to watch for because you'll have a dead foal 99% of the time. Careful research and testing prior to breeding will prevent any affected foals, just like testing for Lethal White.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> Yup, absolutely.
> 
> CA - Cerebellar Abiotrophy - Found in any type of Arabian. Two carriers will, 99% of the time, result in a dead foal. My guy in my avatar is by *Ecaho ( N/CA) and MS Adrianna Bey (N/CA) and of the roughly 3500 horses listed, he is only one of four (last time I checked) that is CA N/N out of two carrier parents.
> N/N - CA Clear
> ...


You know your stuff! Thanks!


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

faye said:


> WSArabians,
> This is his breeding:
> Centurian Arabian
> He was stood as a stallion in his younger years however when the stud downsized they decided to keep his father instead of the young stallion (given that they were in thier 80's i cant blame them). He was gelded to give him a better life. Unfortunatly his father broke a leg 2 weeks later. Rian was the only male purebred from his line.


Wow! I don't see Rissalix breeding very often, and he's one of my favourites! SUPER nice! What a shame about this sire, and this guy being gelded.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

Wow, that's a very comprehensive list!!! It's good that it's there for reference though! Does the breeder/seller have to by law tell a potential buyer if a horse carries CA? Or does the buyer have to research and test for it? It looks like a nasty disease!


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Wow, that's a very comprehensive list!!! It's good that it's there for reference though! Does the breeder/seller have to by law tell a potential buyer if a horse carries CA? Or does the buyer have to research and test for it? It looks like a nasty disease!


That is actually a very minor list compared to what's been tested... People just aren't posting results.
There isn't any laws, so it's up to the buyer or breeder. It's getting to the point where a sale is based on a CA/SCID test. 
I wouldn't breed to a stallion that wasn't tested for CA. I'd have to really consider before I thought about breeding to a CA Carrier stallion. 
It's ugly, but managable in knowledagable hands. 
If you become familiar enough with the list you can catch carriers by eye, but because it's so vast, I would definitely test.


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

WSArabians said:


> That is actually a very minor list compared to what's been tested... People just aren't posting results.
> There isn't any laws, so it's up to the buyer or breeder. It's getting to the point where a sale is based on a CA/SCID test.
> I wouldn't breed to a stallion that wasn't tested for CA. I'd have to really consider before I thought about breeding to a CA Carrier stallion.
> It's ugly, but managable in knowledagable hands.
> If you become familiar enough with the list you can catch carriers by eye, but because it's so vast, I would definitely test.


Thanks! Thats useful to know! When I decide I need a reining Arab I will definitely come to you!!!!


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

Muppetgirl said:


> Thanks! Thats useful to know! When I decide I need a reining Arab I will definitely come to you!!!!


Sounds like a plan! Just wait a few years. I'm downsizing until I get my feet back under myself and focusing on my boys, then I'll find the mares for them.  
Although, I am SUPER exicted for one baby this year! Darn may, so far away... lol


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

When it comes to CA can you see if a foal will have it as soon as they're born? Or does it show up later?


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## Muppetgirl (Sep 16, 2012)

MsBHavin said:


> When it comes to CA can you see if a foal will have it as soon as they're born? Or does it show up later?


I was going to ask the same question!!!!


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Cerebellar Abiotrophy (CA) is not usually apparent at birth, but begins to be noticeable a few weeks after. Lavender foal syndrome is usually apparent at birth. 

https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/genomic/cerebellar/


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## MsBHavin (Nov 29, 2010)

So a breeder who hides their horses status, wouldn't get to lie/hide it for long then?


How hard is it to say hey, one of my horses ancestors had it! I should check for it just in case!

Much better than running around breeding to everything only to find out later your foal(s) have to be put down because you refused to test for it??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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