# Why does my horse foam at the mouth



## Farleyv

while riding? Is it the bit he isn't happy with? For years I have seen horses do this, but never really got an answer to it.

He is a great horse, very mild. He is using a Tom thumb snaffle with short shanks...a nice easy bit. He stops excellent and isn't nervous or jerky.

Can anyone give me suggestions on how to stop the foaming or why he does it.

Thanks!


----------



## Kayty

Foaming can be a good thing or a bad thing. I much prefer a horse to have a wet mouth and foaming at the corners or the lips, than a horse that travels with a dry mouth which in most instances indicates that the horse is not accepting the bit. 

A relaxed jaw which accepts the bit will encourage the horse to salivate and thus produce foam. However, a horse in need of a dentist visit or finding the bit uncomfortable will mouth the bit in an anxious manner which will also produce foam. 

If you horse is travelling happily with a soft jaw thus producing a light foam - this is good!!!


----------



## Wancata

If you have been seeing it for years, I would say its a good thing. I would hate to think there are that many horses trotting around in bad bits or in need of dental care! Lol.

I am currently working on getting my horse moving from behind and onto the bit. We have been working a lot on collecting and sometimes he gives me what I call the "oinky" face. Where he is saying, No, I don't want to do this! But once he comes together and relaxes, he comes down and starts to chew a little bit, and then starts to salavate some. This is good, I want him relaxed and happy with the bit in his mouth. On a good day, he will foam a little more than before and is really listening. At least I believe this for my horse.

So its likely, as Kayty said, its all good!


----------



## candandy49

I'm not meaning to be judgemental here or critical by any means. For a fact a Tom Thumb bit is one of the most of harshest bits, because of the straight, short shanks. Years ago I also thought the Tom Thumb to be a kind bit, but learned differently through more research and informative reading up on the different bits. A less severe curb bit is a reining horse bit with curved shanks instead of the short, straight shank of the TT.

As for your horse foaming at the mouth while bitted up, I think the mouth piece part of your TT bit is maybe either copper or sweet iron. Either of those metals are to help keep a horse's mouth moist and light on the bit.


----------



## Left Hand Percherons

Excessive foaming is a sign of resistance to the bit. The bit restricts tongue movement so the horse can not swallow the slobber. I don't want to see any of it. If, when you ride him in a halter or lunge him his mouth is dry, that will tell you it's the bit.


----------



## Kayty

LHP - not necessarily. Maybe it's a western thing to want a dry mouth, but in english, particularly dressage, a wet mouth is HIGHLY desired (not excessive foaming up where the horse is in obvious discomfort, usually coupled with tension in the body as I said above) but wet lips with foaming produced at the corners of the mouth. This is an indication that the jaw is soft as as a result increased salivation occurs.


----------



## Hoofprints in the Sand

I've always heard the shorter the shank the less severe because the less leverage it has...and a tom thumb is as short as the shanks get as far as I know...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bubba13

Salivating is generally a good thing, meaning the horse is soft in the mouth. Tom Thumbs, on the other hand, are terrible bits: http://www.horseforum.com/horse-tack-equipment/why-do-so-many-people-object-80794/


----------



## Hoofprints in the Sand

Are you referring to the western bit or the english pelham? Because the english pelham tom thumb which is basically just a snaffle with a small shank for some added leverage I certainly wouldn't characterize as a "terrible bit" esp compared to a lot of others!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hoofprints in the Sand

Then again...a happy mouth rubber bit can be a terrible bit...in the wrong hands. Any bit can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bubba13

Still not a very good bit if the joint is poorly finished and due to the fixation at the mouthpiece/shank connection, though admittedly better than the Western TT. And not a _true_ snaffle at all, as it has shanks/leverage.


----------



## Kayty

A plain old tom thumb as far as english bits go has no leverage at all and acts like a plain snaffle. It just has 'bars' on the rings to prevent the bit moving through the horse's mouth - most commonly used by kids bombing around on fat, fuzzy little ponies at pony club but also good on breakers. The one shown above is the pelham version of a plain tom thumb, but is not a true english tom thumb.


----------



## Kayty

Brighton Saddleworld: Tom Thumb Bit


----------



## Hoofprints in the Sand

Hence why I said it's basically a snaffle with shanks for added leverage, rather than saying it's a true snaffle which i know it is not  Certainly not a beginner's bit but in the hands of a knowledge rider not one of the harshest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bubba13

That's 'cause you're in Oz, and the terminology is all different.


----------



## Royal Pine Buck

i didn't read any of the replies but have learned this:

EXCESSIVE foaming= bad because it shows an "over busy mouth" usually a sign of an ill fitting bit or one causing discomfort.

Slight saliva= good because it shows he is swallowing and has moist mouth. it shouldn't contain a lot of bubbles and foam.

also if it is the tom thumb western "shanked snaffle" it is a TERRIBLE bit. it is a mix between a snaffle and a a shanked bit usually used with curbs. a shank is suppose to be used with one hand , while a snaffle is generally used with two.

when stopping (using the bit with one hand) the tom thumb causes a nutcracker action on the horses lower jaw (OW!) usually causing a horse to toss his head in the air or to open/gape his mouth when stopping.

back when i rode western my trainer said to throw it away! and that it wasn't worth the metal to make it! my horse also tossed his head and gape his mouth while using that bit often ( i thought he was being stubborn and it wasn't the case)

he was MUCH better when i switched to a regular snaffle. i now ride in a kk ultra (i am riding english now though)

tom thumb bit is also terribly unbalanced. the one with the LONG shanks is a little gentler. but not by much.

Here is an article i read A LOOONG time ago. i am glad it is still up  explain the trouble with the tom thumb. and it makes sense!

Trouble with Tom Thumb it is wonderfully enlightening if you have time to read all of it!

my suggestion would be to try a regular loose ring snaffle or a regular curb. you won't have the nutcracker action (even if your horses is stoic enough to not show he cares, he will definitely me more comfortable)


----------



## loosie

Hoofprints in the Sand said:


> I've always heard the shorter the shank the less severe because the less leverage it has...and a tom thumb is as short as the shanks get as far as I know...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, you're right, that short shanks are _less_ severe than longer shanks - basic physics, less leverage. But that's not to say they're 'gentle', especially when combined with a snaffle, which should be used with direct rein attachment/cues(one rein at a time), not leverage. If you really want a leverage style bit, it should be a short shanked non-jointed one & they're best used one handed/both reins together, such as with neckreining, etc.

You've no doubt heard it said that any bit can be harsh in the wrong hands and 'severe' bits can be fine in good hands. That is true IMO, but you need to be especially careful with any bit and the margin of error - in case of excitable horse, accidental jerking, whatever is higher with a 'stronger' bit. So better safe than sorry I reckon & if you want to use a bit, a double jointed snaffle _OR_ a short shanked unjointed one is about as 'gentle' & 'safe' as they get.

As for the frothing, as you've seen there are different opinions about it, so would pay to learn more about the science & anatomy of it, so you can make an informed decision, rather than just go on opinions. Dr Cook is one name that comes to mind who has done studies into these questions.

IMO it does depend on the specifics & degree I reckon(eg. copper bits cause more saliva), but generally if a horse is uncomfortable, there's a lot or constant pressure on it from the rider, fit, etc, or plays with the bit a lot because they're not desensitised to wearing it, that's what tends to cause frothing. A horse that is well trained to respond to light feel without real pressure and that is comfortable & quiet in a bit doesn't foam. Look at what horses commonly foam & which ones don't, to get an idea of whether it may be a good thing or not. IME the horses that commonly froth at the mouth are racers, pacers and other intensively ridden horses. Also those who have their mouths clamped shut with straps & stuff.


----------



## bubba13

It's not the shank length that matters in regards to leverage. It's the ratio of shank length to purchase length.


----------



## loosie

bubba13 said:


> It's not the shank length that matters in regards to leverage. It's the ratio of shank length to purchase length.


Hmm, yes, didn't consider that, because the purchase length tends to be roughly the same across the board, so therefore it all equates to the same thing - comes down to shank length in the end. But perhaps that's just because I haven't seen bits with greatly different purchase length?


----------



## bubba13

vs.


----------



## corporate pride

bubba13 said:


> vs.


wouldn't touch either of those with a 10 foot pole!!! stuff worrying about the shanks, look at the mouth!!!

a tom thumb in australia is:

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.saddlery.com.au/images/sadimage/imglarge/tom%2520thumb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.saddlery.com.au/go/product/tom-thumb-bit&usg=___kpCeOoMbbBloR9yw5JoE802PHg=&h=200&w=300&sz=6&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=Ig6K2y65F96QsM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=160&ei=Mh7qTcLzEZK4sAOY94n6DQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtom%2Bthumb%2Bbit%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26biw%3D1579%26bih%3D689%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=266&vpy=96&dur=31&hovh=160&hovw=240&tx=124&ty=69&page=1&ndsp=40&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&biw=1579&bih=689


----------



## candandy49

It's not the mouth piece that is the concern here it's the purchase and shank lengths. I'm certain that was bubba13's intention to illustrate.

Again I say that the composite metal whether it be sweet iron or copper will help keep a horse's mouth soft and light on the bit and will create some saliva,foaminess. I personally like a sweet iron mouth piece bit.


----------

