# ! Please Help my Horse Hates Me !



## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

Have you tried working with her feet while she's being fed? Just a thought.

At 5 months she's just a baby.


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

gunslinger said:


> Have you tried working with her feet while she's being fed? Just a thought.
> 
> At 5 months she's just a baby.


*I've tried lots of things, I like to train my horses when they are young so that they know better when they are older .*


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## LynnF (Jun 1, 2011)

When she panics when tied do you untie her? If so she just won... Tie her at wither hight to a solid post using an inner tube of a tire between the post and your rope. When she panics and pulls the tire will pull her back. Leave her there til she will stand quietly. She will learn that pulling is doing nothing but tiring her out. Gradually increase the time you tie her up. For the first time I would leave her about 15 minutes and just let her fight it out with the inner tube. 
About her feet... start slow. Just touch her foot and move away, once she accepts this pick it up an inch or so and put it back down. Work slowly up to picking it up and holding it without fighting. Even as young as she is she is still bigger and stronger than you so if it ends in a fight she will win. Don't let it get to that point. If you can't even touch her foot withough freaking her out then start at the top of the leg and slide your hand down until she starts to pull away, slide back up and repeat. Eventually she will let you get lower and lower until you are at the foot and able to pick it up. About turning her butt on you when you go out to catch her, I would try and run her into a roundpen or smaller pasture and then work her in the roundpen. She is young so keep it to a very minimum, enough to get her to respect you but don't work the crap out of her. It sounds like all in all your problems stem from a lack of respect. Yes she is young but she still needs to learn that you are the boss and that is final.
Good luck! Let us know how it goes!


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

LynnF said:


> When she panics when tied do you untie her? If so she just won... Tie her at wither hight to a solid post using an inner tube of a tire between the post and your rope. When she panics and pulls the tire will pull her back. Leave her there til she will stand quietly. She will learn that pulling is doing nothing but tiring her out. Gradually increase the time you tie her up. For the first time I would leave her about 15 minutes and just let her fight it out with the inner tube.
> About her feet... start slow. Just touch her foot and move away, once she accepts this pick it up an inch or so and put it back down. Work slowly up to picking it up and holding it without fighting. Even as young as she is she is still bigger and stronger than you so if it ends in a fight she will win. Don't let it get to that point. If you can't even touch her foot withough freaking her out then start at the top of the leg and slide your hand down until she starts to pull away, slide back up and repeat. Eventually she will let you get lower and lower until you are at the foot and able to pick it up. About turning her butt on you when you go out to catch her, I would try and run her into a roundpen or smaller pasture and then work her in the roundpen. She is young so keep it to a very minimum, enough to get her to respect you but don't work the crap out of her. It sounds like all in all your problems stem from a lack of respect. Yes she is young but she still needs to learn that you are the boss and that is final.
> Good luck! Let us know how it goes!


*Thankyou so much! I will start work on monday, lets just hope all goes well! .*


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

You are 13 years old, right? You are not qualified to be this horse's "last chance," and you are not qualified to be a trainer. This is a baby. She's totally fixable, but she needs an _experienced_ hand. Don't make her pay for your shortcomings. Sell her to a competent home or hire a professional to work with her.


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## Mike Zimmerman (Oct 30, 2011)

First off you're horse doesn't hate you, she is just a foal and doesn't know anything about how she is expected to act until you show her. Of course she's going to panic when she's tied, she doesn't know what being tied is. I'd first make sure she leads well and respects the halter. Then when you do tie her make sure it's a safe place where she can't get hurt. It's okay to let her struggle and figure things out, just be close by if she does get into trouble. I wouldn't worry about the feet until you get her tieing well.

When dealing with her out in the field I'd take a horsmanship flag or a lunge whip with you, if you have the whip hold the lash with the handle so it's essentially a long stick. When she turns her rear to you send her away. Don't hit her and don't chase her! just wave it at her rearend to let her know that's unacceptable behavior. Approach her again if she puts her but to you send her away and do it again until she faces you. This may take some time but it's a valuable lesson for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

bubba13 said:


> You are 13 years old, right? You are not qualified to be this horse's "last chance," and you are not qualified to be a trainer. This is a baby. She's totally fixable, but she needs an _experienced_ hand. Don't make her pay for your shortcomings. Sell her to a competent home or hire a professional to work with her.


*I didn't say I am her trainer. I am experienced and I have experienced people around me that are willing to lend me a hand, I only made this post so that I could get some ideas that will help her become a better horse that I will be able to handle in the future! I didnt come on here for you to tell me that I need to sell my horse, I know she is fixable. Thankyou very much!*


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

Mike Zimmerman said:


> First off you're horse doesn't hate you, she is just a foal and doesn't know anything about how she is expected to act until you show her. Of course she's going to panic when she's tied, she doesn't know what being tied is. I'd first make sure she leads well and respects the halter. Then when you do tie her make sure it's a safe place where she can't get hurt. It's okay to let her struggle and figure things out, just be close by if she does get into trouble. I wouldn't worry about the feet until you get her tieing well.
> 
> When dealing with her out in the field I'd take a horsmanship flag or a lunge whip with you, if you have the whip hold the lash with the handle so it's essentially a long stick. When she turns her rear to you send her away. Don't hit her and don't chase her! just wave it at her rearend to let her know that's unacceptable behavior. Approach her again if she puts her but to you send her away and do it again until she faces you. This may take some time but it's a valuable lesson for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Thankyou! I only put she hates me as a good title, I know she doesnt really! I will keep your ideas in mind,  thanks again.*


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Unfortunately we can't tell how experienced you are, apart from reading what you post and there is nothing in your OP that says experienced, or has a lot of people around to help, so that is why Bubba replied as she did


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## KatieQ (Apr 4, 2011)

I hope it works out for you- she's very pretty! Sounds like she's just being a brat and seeing what she can get away with. Try the inner tube thing, and LOTS of groundwork. Just lead her around and correct her immediately if she starts to show attitude. A rope halter might help. Work with her feet slowly- you can start by using a looped leadrope to pick them up, then hold them up until she relaxes. Don't even bother trying to pick them out until she gets comfortable with this, and then start picking them up by hand and just holding them. Give her lots of praise when she cooperates. Carry a lunge whip when you go out in the field, and if she tries to kick USE it! If you have a round pen or small training area try doing some join-up with her. She is too young to work hard but just spend some time with her in the pen, and if she turns her hind end towards you drive her away. When she faces you praise her. Don't give up on her just yet- she just needs to learn a few manners.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

bubba13 said:


> Sell her to a competent home or hire a professional to work with her.



Maybe just suggesting that a more experienced person do this basic work would have been a better suggestion?


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

KatieQ said:


> I hope it works out for you- she's very pretty! Sounds like she's just being a brat and seeing what she can get away with. Try the inner tube thing, and LOTS of groundwork. Just lead her around and correct her immediately if she starts to show attitude. A rope halter might help. Work with her feet slowly- you can start by using a looped leadrope to pick them up, then hold them up until she relaxes. Don't even bother trying to pick them out until she gets comfortable with this, and then start picking them up by hand and just holding them. Give her lots of praise when she cooperates. Carry a lunge whip when you go out in the field, and if she tries to kick USE it! If you have a round pen or small training area try doing some join-up with her. She is too young to work hard but just spend some time with her in the pen, and if she turns her hind end towards you drive her away. When she faces you praise her. Don't give up on her just yet- she just needs to learn a few manners.


* Thankyou! Join up seems like a really good idea, I might look into it some more as I've heard it can really strenghen the bond between horse and owner. .*


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think Join up is for horses a bit older than that baby. Is that her in your avatar? She is to die for cute!

I know you didn't mean she hates you. It is catchy, but tends to make people reading it think you have no real experience with horses, so can lead to some confusion.
so glad to hear that you have good help available becasue she sounds like she will definitely be worth the effort.
Post some pictures when you have the chance. Just for yuks and giggles.


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## LadyDreamer (Jan 25, 2008)

First off, she is a scared baby. She is acting like a horse that knows nothing at all. 

She knows you are not a horse. She knows you are a predator. She knows that you want to do strange and unnatural things to her, like brushing. She knows she must defend herself at all costs.

She doesn't know she is doing wrong. She doesn't know about being a People horse. 

Plus she's a little mare. Plus she was likely just taken from the safety of her dam. Plus she is just a baby. Plus she hasn't had the correct handling.

I specialize in this age of horse and will send you a pm as soon as I can. My first foals that I trained(under CLOSE supervision) were when I was twelve. Fourteen years later, I am still learning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dame Nuit (Nov 15, 2011)

i think you just forgot a horse is not a toy...
She can't do things all right the first time. 
She needs to be taught the right way and you show us you're not the one that can do it.


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

First of all, please don't use that awful colored font. I gave up reading this post 2 or 3 times before I finally suffered through it. 

This tells me all I need to know. 


> *I only made this post so that I could get some ideas that will help her become a better horse that I will be able to handle in the future!*


The better question would be "What am I doing wrong?"

This person does not have a horse problem. This horse has a person problem. 

You need to become a better horse herd leader. Foals react to pressure and release and herd leadership pressure just the same as a big horse only they 'beg' for mercy when they think they are being disciplined by a bigger, older horse. [I am referring to the 'clacking' they do -- the chewing motions they go through when they think an older horse is going to 'jump' on them for some heard hierarchy infraction.] If anything, they are easier to 'intimidate' than an older horse. 

You just need to learn how to effectively interact with a baby. If you don't do this, your best option is to just let her grow up a little and get mature enough to use exercise as a means of control. This is not possible with a baby with its immature legs and joints. 

All this being said, all horses are not born with the same quality of disposition or trainability. We have raised our own prospects for many years now because it is so much easier (and more enjoyable) to work with a horse that has a very trainable and 'willing' disposition. Some horses are much more 'forgiving'. They let you make mistakes and they still do the right thing. They literally compensate for a handler's lack of knowledge. This is what we are referring to when we say a horse is 'trainable' and has a 'good' and 'forgiving' disposition. It does not mean they meet you at the gate looking for treats. It does not mean they will 'bond' with you easier (whatever that means). It means that when you apply pressure, they immediately 'back off' and 'give' or 'yield' to that pressure. That is the disposition that a horse is born with. Almost any horse can be trained. Some are just a lot nicer to train. They give to pressure and offer little resistance. This quality coupled with inherited athletic ability is what makes one prospect worth $50.00 and another one worth $50,000.00.


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks for your posts, I am simply ignoring the ones that are unhelpful, starting training tomorow with Star, I'm keeping all of your ideas in mind. A friend from the local horse farm is coming over to help me. Again, thanks for your ideas, I hope it works out!


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Is that her in your avatar? She is to die for cute!
> Post some pictures when you have the chance. Just for yuks and giggles.


I'll post some soon, check out my album 'Stardust' she's in there!


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

LadyDreamer said:


> I specialize in this age of horse and will send you a pm as soon as I can. My first foals that I trained(under CLOSE supervision) were when I was twelve. Fourteen years later, I am still learning.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Thanks for your post, I understand what you're saying. I agree, we never stop learning about horses .


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## Courtney (May 20, 2011)

If this was my horse, I'd go right back to the basics right now. Forget about tying... just start by teaching her that you're not a scary, horse eating monster. When you visit her in the field, bring her a piece of apple or carrot. Halter her, lead her a few steps, give her the treat and a pat on the neck and turn her loose.

If you have a round pen, bring her in and ignore her. Read a book, work on some homework... but let her make the decision to explore you. Don't do any join up now... her joints are too delicate to be running in circles right now. Just let her figure you out first.

Once she has taken the steps to explore you and has figured out that you're not going to eat her, you can begin to practice tying. When I had my colt, he reacted the same way to being tied. He HATED it. It restrained him and was completely unnatural to a horse's fight or flight instinct. So, I decided to meet him halfway. Instead of tying him up solidly, I looped the lead rope around a steady post and just held the end. He had some give to pull back and figure himself out, but he was still in hand. Once he figured that out, he began to stand like a good little horse. Within a few weeks, he would stand tied wherever I left him for short periods of time. He wouldn't stand for hours and hours, but he would stand long enough to be groomed, trimmed, examined, etc. The standing at length would come with time.

When I was teaching my horse to pick up his feet, he was convinced that he simply could not balance on three legs. He would kick around, trying to put his foot down. Rather than risking a kick to any part of my anatomy, I invested in a soft cotton rope and used it to pick up my horse's hooves. I made a loop with the rope, and the horse's hoof was held within the loop. He could fight however he wanted, I could stay out of the way and if he got really panicky, I could simply let go of the end of the rope and his hoof would be free. One afternoon, and he had figured out the basics of lifting a hoof and balancing. Within a few afternoons, he was standing (mostly) quietly to have his feet cleaned and within a week, he was able to have his feet trimmed without a fuss.

You have to really listen to your horse and her boundaries. At her age, your horse is still very much a baby with a baby attention span. Give her a 5 minute lesson here and a 5 minute lesson there. Any more, and she'll start having a freak out. Work with her, set her up for success and be patient -- she'll be a good horse eventually.


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

Courtney said:


> If this was my horse, I'd go right back to the basics right now. Forget about tying... just start by teaching her that you're not a scary, horse eating monster. When you visit her in the field, bring her a piece of apple or carrot. Halter her, lead her a few steps, give her the treat and a pat on the neck and turn her loose.
> 
> If you have a round pen, bring her in and ignore her. Read a book, work on some homework... but let her make the decision to explore you. Don't do any join up now... her joints are too delicate to be running in circles right now. Just let her figure you out first.
> 
> ...


 Thanks , I'll try that!


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## paulaj (Nov 19, 2011)

Be loving and patient, work everyday with her, as she is just a baby, your so fortunate to have such a beauty....they forget from one day to the next be consistent and slow ,moving remember every day!! Have a wonderful experience with your baby,,,,


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Kudos to all who were so generous with their time & expertise here! 

I'd ask that OP not post any more alarmist titles like "My horse hates me!"; it really doesn't help us help you.

I also hope that you understand that you need serious help (shouldn't have tied this baby, for one thing), not just that you're welcoming tips. If you see that you need to learn about as much as the baby, with a qualified mentor, you'll learn together & all will be well. Otherwise, you could seriously damage this horse's opinion of humans.

Good luck!


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## christopher (Feb 11, 2011)

whats wrong with tying babies?


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

Northern said:


> Kudos to all who were so generous with their time & expertise here!
> 
> I'd ask that OP not post any more alarmist titles like "My horse hates me!"; it really doesn't help us help you.
> 
> ...


I understand not to do the title thing again but acctually I give star alot of love, care and attention, and I tried tying her last night for about 5 minutes, thanks to all of the people who helped!I find it is actually better to teach foals the right way when they are babies, that way they learn better.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

You need lots LOTS of patience to work with the unhandled horse (and it sounds like it given the fact she doesn't let you to handle the feet). And since it's a baby on top of it (with short attention span etc.) it makes things even more difficult. I agree with other people that the best way to go is to ask for the help of the live professional. This way you'll progress faster and won't teach the horse someone you'll have to un-teach later on. 

I'm not a good adviser on tying the baby :wink: , but as for legs when leg is in air it's a very vulnerable position for the horse, and the horse should trust you it's still safe. Make sure first you can run the hand/brush all way up to the foot without the horse being scared or jumpy. Make it a pleasant experience. When you can do that you can start asking for the front hoofs (by tapping gently and if needed pushing it slightly off-balance). With the back legs I personally used a rope to start: loop it around the leg and pull it up for sec. Then for couple secs, then for 10 secs, etc. I also did lots of praise and carrots for the tiny attempt on their side to make it right (yeah, yeah, I know not everyone is for treats ).


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## Lauren Woodard (Jul 7, 2010)

christopher said:


> whats wrong with tying babies?


Looking forward to seeing the bites you get on this one :lol:.


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## PerchiesKisses (Dec 6, 2010)

Just an idea, because she is so young...

Have you tried tying her beside an older horse that stands quietly so that she could learn by example?

We did this with our mule babies and never had issues because they were surrounded by horses who just never considered pulling back as something to do. 

I admit I don't have a lot of experience with babies, but I think that 5 months is kinda young to be doing join up and stuff like that. It's been my opnion that a baby should have time to be a horse.

That being said, a baby should also be in the beginning stages of picking up feet, leading, and so on. Be patient with these skills, you have lots of time between here and when she's old enough to be ridden to develop and work on them.


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks for your views, I'll try to tie her up next to julie, an older horse, by the way, be sure to check out their websites |
|
V


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## ilovemyquarter (Jul 6, 2011)

first off let me start by saying, im 14 so i know where you are coming from. Youre going to college in 4-5 years. Why did you get a filly? just out of curiosity. 
secondly, i only have a year being around horses so im no expert either but, join up at 5 months? it seems a little intense. She's still a baby let her run around in the pasture and be a baby. All these people have been around horses for a much longer time then me! So listen to them! If its criticism, its constuctive and well intentioned. Good luck with your baby! Shes georgous! && just a big hoo-rah to everyone who is helping her out. Girls like us would be clueless without people like you!!


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

Update: Star is now for sale to the right person. I'm still working with her, I might consider putting her out on loan PM me if interested.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Is this a decision your parents have made or are in on? Is she old enough to seperate from her mum? This is kind of a sudden and abrupt turn around. Kind of think you might want to think this through a bit, no? And loan her? a baby? Is that typical in Wales? 
She is cute as a bug, and I bet if you want to sell her she will sell pretty easily, and I sincerely hope she finds the right owner.


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> Is this a decision your parents have made or are in on? Is she old enough to seperate from her mum? This is kind of a sudden and abrupt turn around. Kind of think you might want to think this through a bit, no? And loan her? a baby? Is that typical in Wales?
> She is cute as a bug, and I bet if you want to sell her she will sell pretty easily, and I sincerely hope she finds the right owner.


She isn't with her mum anymore, when we got her she had to be delivered at 3 months because apparently the mare had been sold, we soon found out the person that sold her to us needed the money for spending on holiday the next day! My whole family now knows, it was my decision. I'm in leicester witjh her now, with my mum (dad lives in wales/ mum in leicester)


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## Fellpony (Sep 9, 2011)

welshrider1904 said:


> Update: Star is now for sale to the right person. I'm still working with her, I might consider putting her out on loan PM me if interested.


Star needs to be turned out with an older mare who will teach her manners and how to be a horse. It can be a case of to much to soon. My babies are in with a nanny mare and they are both well mannered and respectful they have had short spells of learning to be a people horse but much longer spells of being a horse.:-|


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

So, a lot of this baby's misbehavior might be due to being seperated from mum too early. The idea of putting her with a "nanny" mare is a great idea.


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## demonwolfmoon (Oct 31, 2011)

welshrider1904 said:


> y! My whole family now knows, it was my decision. )


I hope to god she gets a good owner...with patience and knowledge.


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## welshrider1904 (Nov 18, 2011)

She is actually with a nanny mare, check out Julie!


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## bellagris (Dec 6, 2010)

I have little experience in learning to tie a weanling foal, but it seems to me that anything in horses in intent. If you intend to teach the foal to tie, make sure you stick with it, make it safe to tie, and don't unti until the horse is still. As soon as he is still, untie and wlak him around, repeate procedure.

I have only done this with a 1 or 2 year old, but it should be essentially the same thing.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

OP said that when she's tied 5-month old, it's panicked. The foal shouldn't've been tied because:

1) The vertebrae & whatever else in the neck are far too weak at age 5 months to have such pressure put on them: crippling or worse could've occurrred. An adult horse could get seriously hurt, too.

2) Teaching to tie: one must properly prepare a horse by teaching it to give to pressure, first by the fingers at the poll, then by a wrap around a hitching rail with the human operating a give & take; human is there to help horse, by slowly letting out rope & slowly taking up rope, as needed, to habituate the horse & show him that human often loosens him from the rail (it's not just that they feel trapped, but that they feel trapped permanently! The horse trying to free himself from the saddle fears it's never going to be removed!)

3) Aside from proper preparation to avoid physical damage & emotional panic, the horse will associate the entrapment of being tied solid (obviously foal sees it as entrapment) with the human who "entraps" her, so will have good reason to be skeptical of that human, & by association, humans in general.

A tire or any stretchy part of the tie will of course help, but by leaving the horse to work it out, the horse will still panic & fight & injury could still occur, so why not do it right & be there for her?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Before tying, teach the colt to stand. Stand in front of her, raise one hand like a stop sign, say stand, and take a step or two along her side with one hand touching her. If she moves go back to her head and ask again. Work on this in short spurts until you can circle her with one hand always touching her. When you can circle her without her moving offer her a treat and leave her alone. Work on this until you can circle without touching her and again offer a treat. When you tie a youngster they know they can't escape predators and panic. Some will even attempt suicide. By teaching her to stand she knows she can escape and that in itself can be calming. Do this without a halter or rope on her neck. Before long you will be able to pick a hoof or two (short attention span) and she will stand quietly.


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## xander (Dec 9, 2011)

welshrider1904 said:


> *When you go into the field she turns her hindquarters on you :-|.*


I'm new so that's why I'm asking anybody....what does this look like? When they turn their hindquarters on you? As in, they're keeping their heads away so you can't put a halter on them? and they put their butt between you and their head?


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

Yes and yes...and they're in position to kick, if they choose to do so.


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

^^They're generally threatening to kick.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

As said above, yes turning their hindquarters to you is usually a threat to kick. It's preferable to never give them the chance to swing their quarters to you, but if they do, my lot have all copped a 'come to jesus' lesson and haven't tried that stunt on me again!


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## xander (Dec 9, 2011)

Kayty said:


> As said above, yes turning their hindquarters to you is usually a threat to kick. It's preferable to never give them the chance to swing their quarters to you, but if they do, my lot have all copped a 'come to jesus' lesson and haven't tried that stunt on me again!


 
ah, I see! lol Ok, haven't had that happen yet. I don't think. There's more body language that goes with that, too, isn't there? Like the ears kind of back towards you and the head alert, as well as say them being kind of light on their hooves (ready to kick) ?

The horses I'm working around (doing chores, feeding, they're out at pasture so I walk the hay out into the pasture) will give me their hindquarters for scratching once I've started scratching them. The owner of the horses is comfortable standing behind them and scratching them when that happens.


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I think the BEST thing for you to do if you really want to observe and learn about a horse's language, is to sit under a tree in their paddock, and watch horse the horse's behave with each other. 
You will notice the more dominant horses can just put a grouchy look on their face and other horses will move right away. 
Unfortunately learning how to read a horse's body language is not something that can be picked up from reading on the internet. You need to hands on experience to get a feel for it, and it takes years and years to get your head around every little thing. A movement or look may seem insignificant, when it is actually a warning that you're about to get bitten. The more time you spend watching and handling them, and most importantly, paying attention to what they are doing, the more you will learn.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

The horse is a reflection of YOU, so if you do it wrong, the horse does it wrong.

Realising this is the first step to realising WHY the horse does this.

Please fix yourself before you try to fix this innocent prey animal. To do this you need to understand horses first and how/why they do the things they do. 

It is not the horse who is screwing up.


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## xander (Dec 9, 2011)

Kayty said:


> I think the BEST thing for you to do if you really want to observe and learn about a horse's language, is to sit under a tree in their paddock, and watch horse the horse's behave with each other.
> You will notice the more dominant horses can just put a grouchy look on their face and other horses will move right away.
> Unfortunately learning how to read a horse's body language is not something that can be picked up from reading on the internet. You need to hands on experience to get a feel for it, and it takes years and years to get your head around every little thing. A movement or look may seem insignificant, when it is actually a warning that you're about to get bitten. The more time you spend watching and handling them, and most importantly, paying attention to what they are doing, the more you will learn.


I have done that, I will continue to do that. While I'm not in the pasture though, or working with the owner who can't or won't give a lot of information I'm looking for it online.


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## asdfgh596 (Dec 11, 2011)

We had to do this to one of our horses, try this and see if it works get a small peice of bailing string make it about 6 inches around tied together twitch her lip and using a clasp, twitch and pull tight to her halter, after doing this you will be able to do anything you want to do. NOTE a normal twitch will scare her and she wont let you do anything. Let me know if this works.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

That sounds barbaric, sorry asdfgh596, but I would NOT be twitching my horse with a piece of string and tying it to her halter EVER. 
What happens if the horse panics and you can't get that bailing twine off?????


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## asdfgh596 (Dec 11, 2011)

*She wont move*

Your horse wont move untill you remove the twitch, trust me you will be able to do anything you want and she will let you. Or just keep letting her do what she wants. Hope you dont get hurt.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

o.0
Sorry, I really am, it my have worked for you, but humane twitches were invented so you can take them off and release them easily. If you tie it to a headcollar you have NO chance to control how much pressure you put on it. I wouldn't reccomend this method to ANYONE.


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## jackvance (Oct 22, 2009)

Hello Girl
This is not a rocket science project. But because of your assumed limited experience you must work in a clean area reff of any clutter. In addition you must work in a proximity to the horse which will you to move away from it should the need arise. There are few horses that will hurt you intentionally. Most hurts come from inexperienced people not knowing how to interface with th ebig horse in close quarters, but there are professionals which also get into trouble from misjudging their position and the reaction of the horse from a given stimulus. That being so. Here is 
(perhaps too much information for you to consider. Take what you can from it ..if it works for you. There is a very effective application of training that will suit your needs.

I am not an, Animal Psychologist, but I continuously study the horse’s mind. I perceive a sound-minded horse is one that; when compared to a group of horses; that horse will learn the same given lesson as the other horses in that group. Perhaps not at the same rate, but he will learn. 

The amount of time an individual horse of that group requires in learning the lesson reflects that horse’s ability to understand the lesson and the trainer’s methods and ability to adapt to that horse’s learning rate, as that horse may be quicker or slower to pick up on what the trainer is attempting to convey. 
For example: when in a pen with a horse at liberty, we may use one or all three mediums of communication _Visual, Sound_, and _Tactile_, to convey my ideas to the horse. When I present a certain action or sound, I encourage/incite the horse until he responds with certain movements and actions I desire. 
However, each time I present that action or sound, I lessen the energy I use in presenting it. The less energy I use; the less energy the horse uses in his response. Soon he responds to my directive because he knows what I want him to do, instead of responding because he is incited. 

We call the action or sounds _signals _or _cues_. To get a predictable response these signal/cues must be constant in every way, such as, speed, size of the visual aspect, sounds, and over all energy of the presentation. 
The psychological make-up of a given horse will determine how fast or slowly the horse responds and learns. The horses’ ability to learn is more important to me than how fast he learns. However if one is training for competition with a “Window of Time”; the expediency of his learning become equally as important as his ability to learn. 
If a horse isn’t able to learn to respond to a certain signal/cue, I would first look at how I’ was presenting the cue, and then look at the environment; I am presenting it in. They are creatures of habit and predictable in their response to stimulus, perhaps not always the way we would like them to. 

Here is an analogy, in which I attempt to reflect on the psychological make up of horses. The analogy incorporates the use of a solid walled round pen, a party balloon, (Representing a Mustang fresh off the range) a small Beach ball (representing the average domesticated untrained horse) and a slightly larger Beach Ball, (Representing a domesticated untrained Draft horse) in addition to a Fan, (Representing a Human). 

The horses were originally bred, intentionally or un-intentionally for distinctively different life styles. 
Although, each of the horses has the same innateness, they each will respond with different levels of energy due to their psychological make up. 

Keeping in mind; each breed will present gradations of psychological make up. Which means one can train the high incitement level Draft Horse to perform the same work as the low incitement level Draft Horse…but they will perform it with the energy that is innate to their psychological make up. One can not make a 6 out of a 10 or vise versa. However, if both horses are psychological sound, they will accept training; and we can get all they have to offer, and then to retain that training with minimum adverse residual effect on the horse; we must place them in a psychologically suitable environment. 

The scenario begins in a solid-walled round pen approximately 7 feet tall and 45 feet across. In this case a solid wall is desirable to minimize outside interference with the balls and fan. 
In the case of horses; normally one can affect the behavior of another horse by tying it close by the area where one is working another horse. They’ like US’ also learn by watching. In the wild it is a game of follow the leader. 
In this’ round pen there is no horse. Instead there is a birthday party type balloon, 12 inches in diameter, sitting on the ground up against the wall. 

I liken that balloon to a horse that has a high incitement level (The Mustang). This means he generates high energy from a low-level stimulus. 
In the very center of the round pen is an electric fan. I liken this fan to my presence. Like me, the fan can produce variable energy and movement.
The fan is 3-speed, slow, medium, and fast. Using the wind energy produced by the fan one may control the direction and speed of the balloon’s movement. 
Applying the wind energy to the balloon it will move about in a light, airy manner, as it weights almost nothing and there is minimal resistance to its movement.

Before I apply the wind energy, I must decide which direction I want the balloon to go and at what speed. 
Therefore, before I create wind/energy with the fan, I must direct it/point it to the area of the balloon which will allow me immediate impact on its movement, in addition I would be wise to start with a low energy. 
If I were to suddenly direct a high wind/energy to the balloon, it would go out of control, moving erratically all about the round pen. 

If I keep the wind energy directed at the balloon, I will be hard pressed to get it under control.
Therefore, with my understanding of the wind/energy I produce and how it affects the balloon, I have chosen a method of introducing the wind energy to the balloon that allows me maximum control.
Once I decide on the amount of wind/energy I need to begin moving the balloon, I direct the fan at the ground near my feet, and turn the switch to the ‘low’ energy position. 
I want the balloon to move counter clockwise and stay close to the ground. Therefore with the fan on ‘low,’ I gradually raise the fan so the wind/energy is directed to the right hand side of the balloon where the wall and ground meet. The wind/energy forces the balloon, to move left.


If I want to keep the balloon moving at the same rate, I must continue to follow it with the same amount of wind/energy, at the same distance. I must maintain that wind /energy and distance ratio. If I want to move the balloon faster I can accomplish this in two ways:

One way is, I keep the fan in the center of the pen, and rotate it while turning the speed control up to the medium energy position. 
The other way is; that I keep the fan turned on ‘low,’ but I physically move the fan closer to the balloon, if I move the fan closer to the balloon to increase the speed of the balloon, again I must continue to follow the balloon at that same new distance or it will slow down or speed up. 
If I decide to decrease the speed of the balloon, I reduce the effect of the wind/energy of the fan by physically moving it further away from the balloon or turning down’ the speed control knob.
If I want to stop the balloon, I can do it gradually or abruptly. If I choose to do it abruptly, I quickly move the wind energy away from it by turning off the switch or directing the wind/energy of the fan away from the balloon. 
If I am good at controlling the wind/energy of the fan, I could quickly, direct it to a point in front of the balloon and slowly lessen the distance between them until the balloon slows or stops, at which time I direct the fan wind/energy away from the balloon or turn it off. 
Now that I understand how to control the wind/energy of the fan and how it affects the balloon, I want to see how good I am at controlling the movement of the balloon with the wind/energy from the fan. 
So, with the balloon stationary on the ground against the wall, this time I direct the fan to the area above’ the balloon, but dead center of it. 
I turn the fan on low and direct the wind/energy down to the balloon. Theoretically I will compress the balloon against the wall; or at least that is my intention. 
Although I have the speed control on low; I can be more affective and expedient at controlling the impact of the wind/energy upon the balloon, if I physically move the fan closer or further away from the balloon; as opposed to increasing or decreasing the wind/energy of the fan. If I am accurate with my application of the wind/energy I can keep the balloon in that location.

The more the balloon is compressed, the more accurate I must be with applying the wind/energy to keep it there.
If I move my wind/energy off the center of the balloon, it will go shooting away, escaping my control. 
Once this happens; the best way for me to regain control of the balloon, would be to completely remove the wind/energy and wait for the balloon to come to a stop. 
Once the balloon is still, I can again apply wind/energy to control it. 
Upon learning and understanding the physical characteristic of this particular balloon and how to apply the wind energy, I will be able to direct the movement of the balloon in a smooth and predictable manner. 
If I change the physical characteristics of the balloon; for example, from a light party balloon, (which I liken to a Mustang horse), to the larger balloon, (which I liken to a draft horse), I must use adjust the wind/energy to that needed to control and direct the particular balloon. 

If I were inconsistent in producing wind/energy and inconsistent in applying, 
I would get unpredictable results from the balloon; much like an in-experienced person, creating inconsistent energy, with inconsistent moves, when attempting to direct a horse in a round pen.
In the aforementioned scenario the _wind/energy_ of the fan is a _stimulus to the balloon._ In training horses, my presence and the _energy_ in my movements are a stimulus to a horse. If I want to direct the horse with consistent predictability; I must control my movements and the energy in them
When training horses, I incorporate the three innate mediums of communication: Visual, Sound, and Tactile. I utilize these mediums of communications, individually or in correlation, with the energy I feel is needed to incite the horse to perform a movement or action. His response to a given stimulus will depend on his psychological make-up. 
If I create a low stimulus, the response can range from nothing, when introduce to a draft horse of low incitement level, to explosive, when introduced to a Wild, Mustang of high incitement level.
In this scenario, perhaps one can see the different affects possible, from three different people, with three different levels of ability, working the same horse. 
Consider the reaction of the aforementioned three horses, if worked individually inside a round pen, during a first-time encounter with an inexperienced person.


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## ConfusciusWasAGreatTeachr (Oct 29, 2011)

Oh LORD, I agree. NO twitch, especially on a horse that is 5 months old! No, no, no.
What's happening right now is that you don't realise that you are giving this horse all the wrong stimulus and she is reacting accordingly. She tells you you are doing it wrong with her responses, but you as a human do not see it that way. You see it as a 'naughty' animal. No such thing.
You are giving her all the wrong signals which confuses her, which doesn't enable her to look to you, which makes her wary of you, which makes her discontent, which makes her not trust you, and the worst thing you could do would be to force a huge pressure object around her nose and dominate her into submission. That is no basis for a relationship!
If you want to continue with this filly, you need to stop blaming her and start blaming yourself for 'her mistakes' and realise how you have caused her to act how she is acting.


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## jackvance (Oct 22, 2009)

*Twitching*

My Opinion!

This piece of equipment works by placing the horse’s nose into the loop on the end of the twitch and twisting the handle until the loop tightens. The horse is distracted from the primary activity. The twitch gets his attention because it bothers him more and he begins to stand to allow you to proceed with the primary activity. The loop is unloosed if they stand.
There is a controversy as to the “process of effect” that allows us control of a large animal with the use of a twitch. It works on most horses. I have seen some it did not work on. If fear, anger, and pain override the effect of the twitch, it becomes useless. Perhaps this would be the time to step back and look at alternative methods of restraint. 
Proper use of the twitch allows the horse to realize that what you are doing is not that bad. If used correctly, in time you may not need it at all.
Most people do not know how to use it and leave the twist too tight, causing unnecessary pain or discomfort. As a result, the horse is not able to learn the lesson as quickly.
There are two kinds of twitches; one applies pressure to the nose by tightening a rope loop around the nose. The other incorporates a clamping effect. However, they all produce the same action as far as the horse is concerned.
Who is using the equipment, and how much experience they have, will make a difference. For instance, I can explain and show you how I tie a horse in hobbles and lay them down without sedation.
However, the energy and action of the event is another thing. The psychological make-up of the horse may lend itself to making the process textbook perfect, or the process can become chaotic and frenzied. On the other hand, if the horse you want to lay down is a strong alpha, you may be in for an interesting learning curve before he is lying on the ground, regardless of whether you are a professional or novice.
The effectiveness of good equipment reflects the ability of the person using it. Some trainers are able to do more with a piece of baling string than others with a bridle.


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## asdfgh596 (Dec 11, 2011)

Thank you for the explanation, yes it works most of the time and helps control a nervous young horse. They will soon let you work on them just touching there nose and talking to them and letting them know your in control NOT them.


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## RedBlaze (May 31, 2011)

If working with her legs doesn't help. You can get hobbles (that connect from the front legs to the back legs) and when she kicks out, it brings her legs out from under her most of the time this works. To some people these may seem mean. In the long run it's better for both you and the horse before one of you get injured


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Again, what is this going to achieve in the long run? You're preventing the kicking, not finding out WHY the horse is kicking and getting to the route of the problem.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

asdfgh596 said:


> We had to do this to one of our horses, try this and see if it works get a small peice of bailing string make it about 6 inches around tied together twitch her lip and using a clasp, twitch and pull tight to her halter, after doing this you will be able to do anything you want to do. NOTE a normal twitch will scare her and she wont let you do anything. Let me know if this works.


From reading your posts I get the feeling that you are working with a trainer that likes to cut corners or takes the easy road. I don't want to sound like I'm cutting you or your advice down as I'm certain you've gotten results from the techniques that you use but I want to warn that what is happening by doing things this way is that you are allowing huge holes in your horses training. 

The results are going to be short lived and you are going to end up with a horse that has a lot of issues. Since you come from the racing world a lot of the focus is on the here and now because you only get so many races out of a horse and unless it's a big winner there won't be much need for it once it's finished with it's racing career. 

It will be sold and some hunter/jumper, eventer, or dressage rider will buy it and have to do a ton of work to try to fill in the training gaps.

I only bring this up because when folks are asking questions they need to understand what is a quick fix and what is a more solid training method.


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## Lakotababii (Nov 28, 2010)

farmpony84 said:


> From reading your posts I get the feeling that you are working with a trainer that likes to cut corners or takes the easy road. I don't want to sound like I'm cutting you or your advice down as I'm certain you've gotten results from the techniques that you use but I want to warn that what is happening by doing things this way is that you are allowing huge holes in your horses training.
> 
> The results are going to be short lived and you are going to end up with a horse that has a lot of issues. Since you come from the racing world a lot of the focus is on the here and now because you only get so many races out of a horse and unless it's a big winner there won't be much need for it once it's finished with it's racing career.
> 
> ...



THIS!! 

There are literally hundreds of gimicks out there to get a "quick, easy fix" but it brings up a few questions, the main one being "What happens when you remove the gimmick?" I would say the behavior comes back. 

*asdfgh596 *Sure, a bail of twine twitch thingy mabob may very well have broken the horse's spirit, and made it listen. BUT there are a few things here I must point out. 1. Horses can't tell us their pain, at least not in the way we are used to. They can't tell you how much it hurts, or where, or how it affects them. 2. You are greatly underestimating the power of the horse. Horses are to be respected. You are lucky that horse did not hurt you. No matter how little, horses are massive and can do a lot of damage very quickly. 3. Just because it works once does not mean it should be repeated. EVERY HORSE IS DIFFERENT, SO WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THERE IS ONLY ONE ANSWER TO EVERY PROBLEM?! or that one solution will always work?! I do not understand it. 4. Why would you give dangerous advice over the internet and promise it works? What happens if the horse DIES from it?! 

Sorry rant over. I just can't stand that.


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## asdfgh596 (Dec 11, 2011)

*Wow*

Sorry for all the things i said. Im very very sorry i hope yuall will forgive me.


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## Akuinnen24 (Jan 14, 2011)

Just as a reminder, the last time welshrider1904 posted on this thread was November 21st, and she had already said she was planning on selling the filly to someone with more experience. 

I think it's great that people are discussing training methods, (it's a really interesting discussion!) but I'm sure she doesn't need any more advice/criticism directed at her personally if she's already changed her mind about training the filly by herself.


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