# Color Experts! Sabino? Rabicano?



## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I finally got around to taking close pics of Zierra because this has been bugging me for awhile - someone told me awhile back she was sabino and rabicano and I kind of scoffed. Now that I've started researching the patterns more, I'm curious if they're right or not.

Would you see white speckling like this on a chestnut horse, or is it automatically an indication of rabicano? It seems so slight, she's got literally like 12 white hairs in her tail base and then a lot of white flecking all over her hind quarters and around her flank/belly. She also has a rather unusual facial marking - the blaze is normal, but I've never seen the white "splotch" over her eye quite like that.

Also, I apologize for the clay on her legs - it's like, the single worst substance to have to deal with. You have to wait until it's completely dried out to brush it off or Zierra gets crabby - it pulls at the hairs and she HATES when I do that. Thankfully it's stopped raining and her legs are clean now, I managed to take pics right when the pasture was starting to dry up for the 40th time this year. :roll: 

Any opinions would be great, she'll also be my little chestnut, but I find it very interesting that she may have those genes.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Front outside









Front inside









Back outside









Back inside

Only her left fore and left hind have white markings, her right fore and hind are solid.


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## MaggiStar (Mar 19, 2010)

Im not sure but in one photo it looks like you need to get her shoe fixed.
Most chestnuts i see have those white hairs i thought it was standard


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Nope, her shoes are fine. We are having severe problems with her angles, and so she is being corrective shod right now with the shoe being set further back to bring back her heels and shorten up her toe. She was just checked a couple days ago by another top notch farrier in the area for a second opinion and he agreed with the method being used.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

I have been told both my Freyja and Finn are sabino. I don't know a lot about how the gene manifests, but Freyja has stray whites like that throughout her coat in the black areas. She also has the similar "blotch" on her blaze - and her lower lip/chin is white as well. Finn at the moment has very few stray white hairs - a total of like 20 over his entire body, and then he has the small white belly blotch, but I have been told his tail is a giveaway in the sabino genetics. It's about a million different colors. That and his white socks come to a "point", along with the belly splotch, are also indicators, so I am to expect his "stray whites" to spread over the years to eventually be everywhere like Freyja's are.

Now, this is all just conjecture from horse color gurus I have spoken to. Neither Freyja or Finn have ever been actually TESTED for the sabino - just so you know.

I don't have a good pictures of the whites spread throughout Freyja's coat, I'll run outside and try to take one, but it's similar to the picture you showed around the base of Zierra's tail - only it's everywhere (and spreading more every spring) on Freyja.

I should also specify that Finn and Freyja are both part Shire - a breed known to carry the sabino gene. I personally don't honestly know how to tell the difference between sabino vs rabicano, to me the look very similar. 

Finn's tail:









Finns jagged socks and belly spot:










Freyja's blaze splotch:


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Yes, that would be much the same thing as yours are blatantly pinto and rabicano is a manifestation of sabino. I'm fairly sure a goodly amount of white hairs is indication of rabicano, I'm just not 100% sure if solid horses can have white hairs that are "nothing" or if the mild display of her white hairs mean she must have rabicano. What I'm reading about rabicano is that it's often hidden as it can display minimally as very few hairs.

It also appears to be spreading, as she did NOT have this many white hairs a few years ago.


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## NittanyEquestrian (Mar 3, 2009)

Most solid horses develop white hairs as they age. I have seen many elderly chestnuts go practically roan when they get into their 20s. How old is Zierra again? I would say if it is from birth then there's a possibility she might carry the genes, since everyone and their mother for the last 50 years has bred for color most horses have "color" patterning of some kind in their genetic history. I have a 7 yr old mustang that is doing the same thing. He's a true black with very minimal white but is developing those sporadic white hairs around his flanks hips and belly. I'm more inclined to think he has some roan in him versus sabino but who knows. The only way to tell for sure is to shell out the $100 for a blood test and get her tested. Regardless I love her little splotch over her eye. She looks like a pirate princess with an eye patch!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

She's only 11 this year, so not very old yet. She's always had sporadic flecks, but even I was a little surprised at how much it had spread when I REALLY looked at it to take photos.


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

Robicano is usually ONLY in the tail and along the ribcage. and sabino can basically be anywhere 
this is Robicano


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## lilkitty90 (Nov 11, 2009)

rabicano usually expresses itself early. 
these are both sabino and rabicano
notice the high jagged leg markings.
















and these are all sabino
































and here is a good link
Sabino
most chesnuts and bays have some ticking of white hair. but if it's that much it may be sabino as it is definitely a characteristic


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I know all that, I know the specifics OF the colors, my question is basically CAN she have that much white hair and NOT be rabicano?

I'm pretty sure rabicano is directly related to sabino - as in, even if it's not displayed, if a horse is rabicano it means they ARE sabino as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, that was the impression I got from research.


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

My sorrel had quite a few white specks like that and wasnt rabicano or sabino. I think a lot of the sorrels just have white flecking...could be wrong tho


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Are you sure though? I guess that's sort of what I'm asking - does anybody have a horse with the white ticking that's tested negative for sabino/rabicano? I guess it's a loaded question, most people don't have their stock color tested, but without doing so you can't definitively say that he wasn't actually a very minimal rabicano.

I guess in the end I'll have to get her tested to truly know! :lol:


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## Piaffe (Jan 11, 2010)

Ya....i never had her tested....no one thought she was rabicano or sabino though....you should get her tested and let us know....I am curious as well...


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## mom2pride (May 5, 2009)

She looks to be rabicano roaned to me; the most 'common' areas for that sort of roaning is the flank and hip area...'true' roaning would be all over, not just kind of 'self contained'...

Does she have any white spots under her chin? Most sabinos will have a small amount of white under there somewhere.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Nope, I'm fairly certain she doesn't, though I don't know that I've ever taken a really hard look. I'm 99% sure she doesn't. I'll check tomorrow. :lol:


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## Alaskadraft (May 28, 2009)

The blaze splotch is known as a "walleye" marking in the shire world...Horses with this aren't show worthy since a solid blaze is only show worthy...the cause..wild sabino hairs...


I say sabino wild hairs...My drafts have them..all Sabino carriers of the gene..
Chris


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

There is no test for rabicano, and the SB1 only tests THAT version of sabino.

I have a mare with not a speck of a white marking, but tons of white hairs throughout her coat.

To me, that doesn't look like rabicano.


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## TrueColours (Apr 25, 2009)

I'd go sabino and rabicano combined for her ... 

Remember that both can expressed minimally or maximally and she may just have minimal expressions of both

That clay is the WORST!!! I boarded at a barn for about 6 months where once it dried, you needed a jackhammer to get it off and Guaranteed Gold has this very lush, thick tail - when it was mucky out, his entire tail would swoosh up the wet clay. it would dry and harden like cement and by the time I got up in the evening he was carrying around a 30 lb tail. Awful awful stuff!!! I am on a sand loam base now and all you need to do is blow on them when it dries and off it comes ...


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

she could just be greying out as is could age related as 11 is old enough to be going grey as my neighbours pony is got grey hairs through out and she is just 8. By the way do you know what colour her pearants are and if they have greyed out?


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

And she can only be rabicano if one of her pearants are rabicano. As it is the roan gene which is dominant


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

There's no way she's greying out, she's way too old & would have been much whiter by now if that was the case. Grey tends to attack the face, especially around the eyes, pretty early on. Also, roan & rabicano are different genes. As of right now, rabicano is still considered its own gene & has not been linked onto the KIT gene, which is where Roan, Tobiano, Dominant White, & Sabino-1 are located.


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## rbarlo32 (Aug 9, 2010)

Rabicano is decendent from the roan gene and it is dominant thus meaning that one pearant must be rabicano. Also greying out can happen at any speed and at any age or it could just be agerelated which means it just has white hair throughout the coat.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

rbarlo32 said:


> Rabicano is decendent from the roan gene and it is dominant thus meaning that one pearant must be rabicano. Also greying out can happen at any speed and at any age or it could just be agerelated which means it just has white hair throughout the coat.


I'd like to see a picture of an 11 year old horse just starting to grey. She's not grey - I have not ever heard of any horse displaying signs of grey any later then a year old. Her dam was bay with just a star and a small coronet band of white and no white hairs - I was informed her sire was a local black stud, but I have never seen him in person nor seen photos.

The problem with both rabicano and sabino is that they can hide in minimal expressions, therefore resulting in a rabicano foal from two seemingly "solid" parents. 

Rabicano is completely and utterly unrelated to the roan gene. It is believed to be associated with sabino, as it so often presents itself in conjunction with sabino. Roan will ALWAYS display physically with a dark head and legs and muted body color from white hairs. Roan will also never change color. Rabicano differs entirely in that it can display from minimal to maximum form, affects different parts, and changes density throughout a horses life. The only link rabicano has to roan is that it can look similar due to scattered white hairs - this is like saying dun and buckskin are linked together because they present similar patterns.


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## CheyAut (Nov 26, 2008)

^ Just to clarify, roan changes with seasons (sometimes drastically, like my black roan mini), but doesn't change over a horse's life (except that it usually isn't appearent in new foals)


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

CheyAut said:


> ^ Just to clarify, roan changes with seasons (sometimes drastically, like my black roan mini), but doesn't change over a horse's life (except that it usually isn't appearent in new foals)


Sorry, I shouldn't have said never! I meant over the lifetime, thanks for clarifying! Shaylas mare goes almost solid black in winter!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quixotic (May 22, 2009)

rbarlo32 said:


> Rabicano is decendent from the roan gene *and it is dominant thus meaning that one pearant must be rabicano*. Also greying out can happen at any speed and at any age or it could just be agerelated which means it just has white hair throughout the coat.


For every single gene, one parent must be carrying it in order for the foal to have it. There's no such thing as genes that skip generations. If a gene is dominant, it just means that it is not hidden by another gene, not that it didn't come directly from one of the parents.


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