# Critique~ 7yr old APHA halter gelding -PIC HEAVY



## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

This is Cisco, reg. name The One For All ( Pedigree - The One for All Paint) he's my halter gelding. I got him in Dec. of 2010 and he was in terrible shape (not from the people I bought him from. they had just recently got him back from a neglectful owner) I showed him last year as practice but only fitted him a little. I was more concerned with putting weight on him and getting his hooves fixed. I have included a lot of pictures lol

This was last summer. Please ignore the background.













































This was taken about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Note the fuzz 













































Please no comments about the angle of his hooves. I know. lol 
They're still growing out and he's getting a nice hoof to him but its taking time due to the state in which they were in. 

Cis is also used as a trail horse. I'm trying to make an all-arounder out of him


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

He is just LOVELY! I typically don't go for a bald faced horse, but I'd snatch him up!
He looks to be a beautiful smooth mover, his shoulder/neck tie in is beautiful. You've done a great job on his topline. His neck looks a tad short and thick, but I like them that way...his nicely sloped shoulder takes it up. Nice short strong back, lovely rounded hind, his legs look sturdy to hold his frame, maybe a tad bit upright/short pasterns. Overall a sturdy good lookin boy! I bet you're goin broke on sunscreen for that nose!


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## paint_girl08 (Sep 15, 2008)

What a beauty! He looks so much better 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

I love how thick, and muscular he looks. I like him! Great work! Look forward to more pics in the future.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

FlyGap said:


> He is just LOVELY! I typically don't go for a bald faced horse, but I'd snatch him up!
> He looks to be a beautiful smooth mover, his shoulder/neck tie in is beautiful. You've done a great job on his topline. His neck looks a tad short and thick, but I like them that way...his nicely sloped shoulder takes it up. Nice short strong back, lovely rounded hind, his legs look sturdy to hold his frame, maybe a tad bit upright/short pasterns. Overall a sturdy good lookin boy! I bet you're goin broke on sunscreen for that nose!


I'm not a fan of bald faces either but I just adore his! Don't know why lol
I invested in a fly mask with a long nose and that works great for keeping his nose protected. I tried Bullfrog spf on my appy's nose one summer and it broke him out!  so I don't touch the stuff any more lol. 
That neck of his IS thick! I bought a SuperSweat to try and sweat off the crest he has (he's foundered before) and the normal horse size was way too small so I had to order an extra large. He's just a chubby bunny


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

OH! He's 15.3 and a red dun overo. Forgot to mention that


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

TheMadHatter said:


> I'm not a fan of bald faces either but I just adore his! Don't know why lol




Thats quite funny.....Im not a fan of bald faced horses either......and thats what I ended up with lol!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Those aren't the best pictures if you are looking for a conformation critique. The only thing that I can tell is that it appears he has better bone in his legs than many of the halter bred horses I've seen. AND, the one thing that really pops at me...he actually has angle in his hocks, which is awesome. 

I really like his coloring (except for the bald face :wink. The only paints I like are the ones that don't have a whole lot of white on them.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

smrobs said:


> The only thing that I can tell is that it appears he has better bone in his legs than many of the halter bred horses I've seen. AND, the one thing that really pops at me...he actually has angle in his hocks, which is awesome.


 
I trail ride all my horses so they have to have good legs!!  I can't stand those halter horses who have those really skinny cannon bones with those huge, massive bodies. I would be scared they'd snap a leg one day :shock:


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

He reminds me of Hidalgo!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAH! I'm jealous.


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## DejaVu (Jul 6, 2011)

He looks really nice and built.
I love his coloring.

I prefer small face markings, but he really rocks the bald face.
He'll be great as an all around horse. How's his movement?


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

QHriderKE said:


> He reminds me of Hidalgo!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAH! I'm jealous.


 
His nickname is Little Brother


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

DejaVu said:


> How's his movement?


Fast lol he is super quick on his feet. When he slows down his trot is super smooth. No one has ridden him at a lope yet but when he lopes across the pasture its very easy going. He has hardly ever been ridden so we have been taking it slow with him. We couldn't ride him for a while due to his hooves (I'll post a pic of those in a second) and then it was show season and we didn't have a lot of trail ride time, but once that cooled off we finally started hitting the trails and he has done wonderfully. He's learning to cross creeks without hesitation and traffic doesn't bother him a bit. I'm very excited about him


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

I really should get more recent photos....lol
Please forgive the untidy look of his After shot. He was in the middle of getting a trimming when I snapped that shot.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

He looks like a halter horse, indeed. And unfortunately, that's not a compliment. He has no bone to speak of to support his mass. He's a buffalo standing on toothpicks. Upright pasterns and downhill, too. I see him doing far, far better in the halter ring than in performance....but take care not to get him too fat while fitting him.

Do you know his HYPP status?


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

He's N/N


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Have to say I agree with Bubba. First thing that jumped out at me was that there's no bone to speak of. Granted, he's better than a lot of halter horses, but still... that's nowhere near enough bone to support him.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

Thank you for your input. 

I am curious though, that if I hadn't said anything about him being shown in halter, if I would have gotten the same remarks, since this forum seems to have a high population of anti-halter members.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yes you would have. His build screams halter. I'm with bubba and bep on their comments in regards to his conformation. He is built to stand there and look pretty, not really built to stand up to any real performance.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I like him. I think he does have pretty good bone to him compared to many horses that I have seen. He's a solid horse. But he's a paint, he's not going to have thick draft legs underneath him to support his body. Do you know what his breeding is like?

He's built bigger then my mare, but she has some pretty small legs compared to my other horse. But my farrier and vet aren't concerned with them. They think she's built just fine and shouldn't have any leg/hoof issues. And your boy looks better supported on his legs them what my girl does. (To me anyways) My girl was a rescue at 8 months so I had no idea she was going to fill out the way that she did...I was quite concerned actually.









Chilly, my mare.









This, is what scares me. This is what I define as a poorly bred animal. Sure the pedigree say's she's good, but I bet she won't make it past 12 years old before she's put down.

I think that you have done a wonderful job getting him back is shape. And his hooves look absolutely wonderful! A complete turn around. Congratulations on getting him healthy and happy. I'm sure your proud of yourself and of him. Great job!


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

I am proud of him CLaPorte432. He's practically my son.  I just adore him and he is so smart! Its funny because halter people say he won't win at halter because I ride him and non-halter people say I can't ride him because I show in halter. I guess I've just got to work extra hard to prove them all wrong, huh?  

I like your girl! He color is great and I really like her shoulder and hip. She's a bit chubby in the barrel but so am I! LOL
I agree with you about the other pic. Now that to me is not enough bone. Cisco, IMO has good leg bones. Maybe its not being portrayed in the pictures but I'm around him every day and he has decent bones. They're are not as thick as my appy's (of course) but they aren't sticks either. But, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, right? 

Considering that Cis used to look like this...
















I don't mind him having a little junk in his trunk.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

This is my, soon to be 8yr old, QH Appendix who I posted a pic of a few months back and no one said anything about his legs, which to me, are a little stick like themselves.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

Here's my appy which has thick legs, as most appys do.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

I don't see a single problem with his bones at all. Actually I find him quite substantial for a pretty "halter" horse, he should do great in WP and whatever. I personally like to see more of a halter bred horse with substance in the WP ring instead of the peanut rolling, Appendix, long necks out there. I don't think he'll ever be a grand prix/show jumper but I'm pretty sure that's not why you got him!  Actually if he was any thicker in the leg he would look heavy, if he's an easy keeper you'll have to watch it, like any horse. My mare needs to seriously drop a few pounds before we work her more. She's recovering from a leg injury and she's packing it on. Halter/Appendix bred fatty, her legs are a tad thinner than his and she's almost 15, super sound, and a super trail horse! I also don't think he's downhill much if at all, just a nice round QHish butt.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't know about WP. We'd lap our competition a few times in the ring LOL he's so quick! 
And no, no jumping for us. He'd jump and I'd hit the dirt haha an english saddle would do me no good "Where's the horn on this thing!?" I can see it now! 
Cisco is an easy keeper so I have to watch him. I haven't been able to start him on his workout schedule yet because of all the rain we've had but hopefully I can soon and burn off some of the "fluff" and have more muscle than fat on him. Muscle pulls those hilly trails better than fat does.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

> She's a bit chubby in the barrel but so am I! LOL


****. Well, I'm a bit chubby in the barrel too. ;-) She's a very easy keeper. We don't feed hay/grain in the summer because we rotate pasture. She usually drops down a little in the winter and might need to gain a little bit come spring. But once the grass pops up, she packs on the pounds. Same with my Spanish Mustang/Curly cross. He is so fat, we had to get a grazing muzzle for him. And then he stands with his butt facing you and pouting whenever he has it on. He's such a child sometimes. LoL


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

OP's horse is nowhere near as bad as that REALLY poor one posted, BUT that's still not enough bone to support the horse's considerable muscle mass. Consider my horse - anglo arab, so bred from two "lighter" breeds, but he's 15.1 and I would BET his bone measures far more substantial than OP's horse. I've been told it's "adequate" for his height and weight - not "plenty", but "adequate".

Yes, IMO the grey appendix is also light on bone. I wouldn't say worse, because he's not as thick through the body OR as heavily muscled as the paint, but he is definitely light on bone.

IMO the appy is "adequate" rather than thick. I hate seeing chunky built horses with fine legs, it's not a conformation that lends itself to long-term soundness.

You want to see thick bone, look at the English (Gypsy, mostly, and some others) cobs. THEY are thick. More bone than strictly necessary for their weight. Why? Because they're expected to be the family horse, strong enough to carry grown men but small enough that children can saddle and mount.

Bear in mind a halter horse fitted for halter well enough to succeed at the upper levels won't be flexible in its muscles simply due to sheer muscle mass - so, you want him to do well at halter, AND performance, maybe performance halter would be a better path to go down.

For the record I'm not anti-halter at all, I just don't like what the AQHA (and to an extent, the equivalent in Australia) has done to the breed. We OWN a QH, he has significant soundness problems, and guess what? Tiny feet, less bone than my Anglo, and at least two inches taller - and significantly wider. We don't have the problem here to the same extent as can be found in the US but it IS still a problem.

And I think OP's horse is better than some Australian QH stallions, but that's still not enough bone.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

TheMadHatter said:


> Thank you for your input.
> 
> I am curious though, that if I hadn't said anything about him being shown in halter, if I would have gotten the same remarks, since this forum seems to have a high population of anti-halter members.


You certainly would have from some of us. Adequate bone and hooves in relation to weight is a very important conformation consideration. Whether a horse is halter bred or not is not relevant to the equation other than many halter horses suffer from insufficient bone and hooves for their weight.

Bone thickness is not, however, a full measure of the adequacy of bone strength. Arabs in particular, have very dense bone and do not require the same thickness, and their dense bone and hard hooves are one reason that, in general of course, they can carry more weight as a percentage of their bodyweight than most full sized horses...


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

Well, I'm very careful not to get him too large because I personally hate the look of "typical" halter horses. I want to be able to show him in a halter class and then saddle up and ride in a cake walk and most halter horses can't do that. The cinch would pinch too much fat! lol but Cis is a very strong guy and very sturdy on those "tooth picks" and I think that is the only thing that he gained from being thrown out into a pasture when he was a yearling and never touched again for 5 years. He could grow and develope naturally vs. being stalled 24/7 and fed until he looked like a swollen fish.


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

He maybe has some halter bloodlines but not what I would consider as the more notable ones.I wouldn't be classifying him as a Halter horse. Conformationally at halter while he may do ok at a local level showing,I couldn't see him doing much at breed level.I would classify him more as an general all round horse Has the conformation & pedigree that suggest he could do a variety of disciplines but nothing points to something he should really excelling at.Best to just try him out in things you would like to do see where his strong points lie & follow up on that.. Incidently has he been tested for hypp? The sires side of pedigree carries HYPP.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

I don't really plan on showing at breed shows just because he's "old" now lol and I can't really compete financially with World showers (my halter is only $70 LOL but I have my eye on a Kathy show halter that I'm hoping to get...some day  ) Halter isn't really my main concern with him. I want to do just about anything with him and have fun. My appy is a go anywhere, do anything kind of horse so I want Cisco to be that way too and the only way for him to be experienced in different fields is to just get out there and do it!

He's N/N


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## HAFWalkers (Jan 2, 2012)

love his color


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

Thanks HAFWalkers


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## chaseranya (Jan 6, 2012)

He's very handsome. Im a sucker for the baldies!


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

I never was until I met him and now I love 'em!


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## missnashvilletime (Dec 20, 2011)

I would say his legs are fine, I learned by this picture my teacher has shown me that the diameter of the bone doesn't matter (looking thick or not) but it depends on the substance in the bone (how thick the bone is). You have to remember that horses; like humans have marrow in the center of their bones. Many of the horses with "thick" legs have fairly thin bone walls. This phenomenon is also seen in cattle. So a "thin" leg may have more actual bone mass and density than a thicker leg.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

Wow, thats really interesting!


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

The problem is that's absolutely not a given nor even a likelihood that fine-boned horses have "thicker" bone relative to marrow. Indeed, halter-bred stock horses are known for having low bone _density_, which is an important factor in strength and weightbearing (obviously). Many halter-type horses, particularly stallions, die at very young ages (teens or younger; a surprising number under even 10 years) due to founder and related syndromes. Their mass can't be supported.

I stand by my initial assessment: no hoof, no legs, no horse.


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

Kid Clu is one of the all time leading halter sires in the world and he is 24yrs old. It depends on the handler. My boy is 15.3 and 1200lbs (the same as my gaited horse) and foundered while underweight in the care of a man who was scared of him because he was affectionate and the man didn't understand that, so he threw him out in a pasture so he wouldn't have to deal with him. My boy doesn't have big name sires who are all bulk and no build. His grandfather on his mother's side was still standing at stud at the age of 21 in '03. Cisco's own dam died of colic at a senior age. Most of the time it all falls on what people are giving them to gain such bulk. Feed is a big factor. They usually die of founder because of what they are fed and how they are confined. Tiny legs don't cause a horse to just naturally founder. Cisco has a bulldog type build. I can't help that, I didn't breed him but I'm glad he was bred because his disposition and intellegence is amazing and he can show pretty on saturday and ride hard on sunday. The only time he is ever stalled is at night and from 8am until 5pm(winter) he is on turn out and is just a normal horse. He's fed a normal diet and is happy and healthy as a lark.


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## missnashvilletime (Dec 20, 2011)

Bubba is right, as I said bone density plays a part and you just don't know bone density :/ you can only measure diameter...all I was saying is thicker doesn't always mean better and thinner doesn't always mean worse.


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## NC Trail Rider (Oct 24, 2011)

Originally Posted by *TheMadHatter* http://www.horseforum.com/horse-con...r-old-apha-halter-gelding-108049/#post1289899
_I'm not a fan of bald faces either but I just adore his! Don't know why lol_



csimkunas6 said:


> Thats quite funny.....Im not a fan of bald faced horses either......and thats what I ended up with lol!


Same here!  My horse's white face makes me smile every time she looks at me!


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

NC Trail Rider said:


> Originally Posted by *TheMadHatter* http://www.horseforum.com/horse-con...r-old-apha-halter-gelding-108049/#post1289899
> _I'm not a fan of bald faces either but I just adore his! Don't know why lol_
> 
> 
> ...



Hahah, same with me! I guess they just grow on you!


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

csimkunas6 said:


> Hahah, same with me! I guess they just grow on you!


 
Must be something in the white! It's a scheme to take over the world I bet :wink:


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

2 New pics. Taken just this weekend.
That back leg of his kills me! Last minute weight shift


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol, i love him. He looks at a good weight now. Before he looked on the fatter side. Lol.

Do you put sunscreen on his face or eyeliner around his eyes?


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

CLaPorte432 said:


> Lol, i love him. He looks at a good weight now. Before he looked on the fatter side. Lol.
> 
> Do you put sunscreen on his face or eyeliner around his eyes?


He came out of the winter a chubby bunny lol now he's trimming up and getting his muscles back.

I keep one of those long nose fly masks on him during the really hot summer months and nope, no eyeliner. Although, if I did put eyeliner on him, I'd make him look like Adele


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## Chopsticks (Mar 11, 2012)

nice gelding! lots to like here. yes, i would say his cannons 'appear' to be a touch fine but let's look at the rest of him too! nice back, good loin connection, strong shoulder with good angle, pasterns a touch upright, deep powerful hip, nice hock angle, gaskins a touch longer so a bit downhill but not severe. thicker throatlatch, curious and kind expression. night and DAY from when you got him, wouldn't even recognize him and excellent work on those hooves!!! (love your appy too by the way!!)


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## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

He is the type i'd go for.. with a few changes (I love a heavy build halter horse).
I am a halter LOVER! But I am also a rider so I love 'performance' type that halter and ride!! 

I don't have anything to say about him, he's a nice type and looks like you enjoy him a lot!

Here's my boy as a yearling..
N/N









Give me a paint horse anyday!


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

Chopsticks said:


> nice gelding! lots to like here. yes, i would say his cannons 'appear' to be a touch fine but let's look at the rest of him too! nice back, good loin connection, strong shoulder with good angle, pasterns a touch upright, deep powerful hip, nice hock angle, gaskins a touch longer so a bit downhill but not severe. thicker throatlatch, curious and kind expression. night and DAY from when you got him, wouldn't even recognize him and excellent work on those hooves!!! (love your appy too by the way!!)


 
Thicker throatlatch? Go ahead and say it. FAT! hahahaha :wink:

He is always in my pocket! No matter where we are at, home or a show, when I've got him on lead he is ready for an adventure. He isn't herd or barn sour at all, which I appreciate. Joker and Sunny are so joined at the hip that it's hard to seperate them, not Cisco (or the appy either ) 
Just a few weeks ago my dad was riding him at our saddle club's arena and the first thing he wanted to do was go get in a huge group of people, just to see what they were doing! Dad steered him away because they were trimming a horse's hooves and we really didn't need Cisco trying to get in everyone's lap while they had a horse tethered, ya know? lol


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## TheMadHatter (Feb 26, 2007)

JustAwesome said:


> He is the type i'd go for.. with a few changes (I love a heavy build halter horse).
> I am a halter LOVER! But I am also a rider so I love 'performance' type that halter and ride!!
> 
> I don't have anything to say about him, he's a nice type and looks like you enjoy him a lot!
> ...


 
LOVE your boy! Bald face and a speckled belly? Whats not to love?! 
I ride as well so my guy's got to be able to go from the halter ring to the trail for me.


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## JustAwesome (Jun 22, 2011)

TheMadHatter said:


> LOVE your boy! Bald face and a speckled belly? Whats not to love?!
> I ride as well so my guy's got to be able to go from the halter ring to the trail for me.


Thank you 
That's the one, can't forget two blue eyes (real ice blue).


That's it, best way to have them too, annoys both parties (if they only do one of the two) when we come in and go RAA  haha


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