# Tips for Starting Pony on Trails



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

I have a 9 year old welsh pony cross that is trained in English show jumping/hunter. She has only ever done arena work. I've been really wanting to get into trail riding this summer and I want to do it on her. I have been on very few trail rides in my life and don't know how to start working towards that goal, so I was hoping to get some tips from this board.

I especially wanted to discuss her individually. She is really an awesome and willing pony as long as she is comfortable with a task. She never really misbehaves in the arena other than being lazy. But new situations can be a problem for her. When we got her, she hadn't been started under-saddle so we trained her. When faced with new situations while she was being trained, she would often stand up/rear. Fortunately it was never the frantic sort of rearing in which they can fall over backwards. Just sort of evasive I guess. Rearing was definitely her go to, but she has also bolted, bucked, spun around, etc. I've only ever been involved in training this one pony, so I don't know exactly how much of that is normal for young, green horses. It was definitely a bad habit of hers for a while. It hasn't been a thing at all for many years now (except she is likely to throw me if I try to ride her from the barn to the arena as opposed to mounting in the ring), but I'm worried the issue could reappear if I don't approach trail riding the right way for her.

So what I am after here is exercises I can with her to start working towards being comfortable on trails. Should I hand-walk her on trails first? Have her walk over/through scary stuff in the arena? I don't really know what I am doing, so any tips would be very helpful to me.


----------



## bellagris (Dec 6, 2010)

You can definitely hand walk her...often for me, I like to have someone pony me out while I'm riding, but that is usually a green horse. Or pony a horse new to trails while I'm riding. With that being said, she is broke and should know the cues so she might just be fine to ride out and have another very confident trail partner there with her. 
You can set up things in the arena to play with...a blue tarp to walk on with some balls in it, buy those noodles for swimming and stick them on the sides of jumps so a horse has to walk through them, a pedestal to go up on and a bridge o walk on...if you look up cowboy challenge, there are a lot of obstacles you can use to simulate trails and the way things feel (like the noodles are similar to going through trees and being brushed up on) to help prepare them for their first trail experience.

best of luck!


----------



## Reiningcatsanddogs (Oct 9, 2014)

Hand walking would be step one as an exploration move nothing more. Don't look the first one as a training process only as an evaluation. It will give you a good idea of what exactly are you dealing with. 

Does she relax and take things in stride? Maybe she is a bit nervous and tense in some spots but not at others? Maybe she is snorting constantly looking nervously from side to side but you can refocus her attention back on you? Perhaps she is just out of her mind throwing her head up and acting like every little thing is a predator. She might even surprise you and absolutely love the outing. 

Don't borrow trouble. That means don't assume that she is going to need a whole lot of preparation until it becomes apparent that she does. You won’t know where to start training until you know what you already have. A hand walk is the best place to put those feelers out.


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Okay, good points.

Having someone pony her while I'm on her is not an option. None of our horses are trained like that and would probably not be okay with it.

My experience with her is that she is okay on the ground pretty much always. The standing up and refusing to go forward and things like that happen only under saddle. I will take her out and walk her and see how she reacts. That definitely seems like a logical place to start. But I do know it won't be the same on the ground as under-saddle. Like I said, I've had to walk her down to the ring before mounting because she will get me off if I try to ride her to the ring. I stopped trying because getting thrown off a bunch of times for the same thing is dumb and I don't always have some one to lead her while I sit on her.

The other obstacle is we don't have any other experienced trail horses. My family have always been hunter/jumpers and none of our horses are really trained for trails. We have an old TB that is the best, but not perfect. He can get very excited. He's a leader, though, so he would probably be the one to go with. My pony is definitely a follower. 

Is it 100% necessary to have another horse with us? Problem being that I want to work with her a lot more than other people around here have time to work along with me. Ideally I would like to get her to be okay going out by herself. Is this unrealistic since she hasn't done it before? Will we need a partner for probably a pretty long time?


----------



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

You don't need another horse with you as long as the woods you go into are safe --- safe for you mostly.

Some horses that have seen nothing but an arena all their lives totally embrace being on the trail. I once bought an Arab/Morgan that was being sold because she was ring sour. I took her straight to the trails from the Seller's barn and that mare thought she'd found Nirvana.

I also had passed on a Morgan mare in the same situation but went berserk hearing the corn stalks rustle alongside the tractor lane on her own farm.

My grandfather had a Welsh/Morgan mare that was very level headed and would go anywhere.

As has been mentioned, walking with your horse is good but I would take the lesson one step further by leading her out, then riding her back; you exposed her to everything hand walking out. She will be more focused on getting back to the barn, than looking for things to shy at. And don't let her pick up speed heading to the barn. A nice extended walk is ok but more than that and next thing you know, she may try to run back

All this is assuming you can get on her, in the open space like that. The first order of business for a good trail horse is to stand quietly, anywhere, for the rider to get back on

Good luck with your new venture:cowboy:


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Thanks for the tips!

I think she has the potential to be a good trail pony. She's very smart and sensible, but not very confident. I suppose I've been a little scared of trail riding ever since I had a horse fall on me during one, which is why I have such little experience doing it. If he had fallen to the left as opposed to the right I would probably be dead right now (there was a ditch on the left). This definitely spooked me and made me scared to trail ride for a while. I've always really wanted to do it, just scared to. I trust this pony's footing a lot and her size is less intimating as far as her falling down. Hopefully she is the former you mentioned and will love the trails!

That's a really good idea to walk her out and ride her back. Fortunately, she is a very polite pony and I can definitely get on her anywhere. Another benefit of her size, I suppose. No idea if she'll try to rush back to the barn or not. We'll have to see.

I would need to trailer her to the woods, which takes some time + another person (that's another thing I lost confidence in when we had a loading accident with my grey mare). I was planning to walk her up the dirt road by my house which is very quiet and has big stretches of dirt on either side of the road. I'll have to wait a bit because it's crazy muddy right now from an early April snow storm. The cars passing do make me nervous, but I could always dismount when I see a car because the road is super straight and you can see really far away. The only problem I potentially see is dogs. There are a lot of dogs that go berserk when you pass their fences. I don't know how she will react to that. If anyone thinks this is a poor idea, please tell me. I'm fine with waiting until I can get assistance taking her to the woods if that would be safer. Again, I don't really know what I'm doing so please tell me if I make a stupid decision.

Would it also be a good idea to get her used to being ridden around the property? It's not a huge area, but it would be something different from arena work, but still really close to home. I was never sure if this was worth bothering with or not. I suppose she is sort of barn sour and throws me when I try to ride her away from the barn. I have yet to be able to stay on and I didn't want to teach her that if she throws me she can go back to the barn.


----------



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

You are probably riding with an English saddle; they don't have any depth to the seat, unless it's a dressage saddle. Do you know someone with a dressage saddle that would fit her, or an endurance saddle?

Until you get her to where she doesn't whirl around to go back to the barn without landing you in the ground, please don't take her on the road. 

You need to be pretty sure of your seat before heading out. Hand walk her out, on your property. When you get to the farthest point, ride her back and don't let her go faster than a walk. 

And *wear your helmet*


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

I am riding with an English saddle. I don't actually know anyone in the horse community anymore. We had really awful experiences with the people around here so ended up dropping out entirely. So I don't know anyone with a different saddle. The good news is, however, that I really like my saddle and am ultra comfortable with it. It has a deeper seat than most (although I'm sure not as deep as you're talking about) because I bought it to compensate for my grey mare's heaviness in the front. Helped me sit back more and balance her out.

Okay, no road. I know for a fact she can ride from anywhere in the property back to the barn. Just not the other way. Any tips on how to fix this? I don't know if she would do it when she is really far from the barn or not. But I can try to work on getting her to cut that out anywhere on the property before taking her out anywhere beyond. I mean, maybe trailering her to the woods is the way to go. At least then she wouldn't know where the barn is, therefor nowhere to whirl around to.

And no worries, I ALWAYS wear a helmet. I've had a comparatively short career with riding, but actually very rough and full of accidents. I know the value of a helmet for sure.


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Okay, so I hand walked her outside of the property. She was good! A little spooky at various things. Barking dogs, a big school bus passed us, a very loud motorcycle. But over all she seemed interested and like she was enjoying herself.

A few points:
I'm like 90% sure she will not cooperate going forward under saddle. Standing, spinning, etc. When she was first being worked under saddle, she wouldn't do this if allowed to follow another horse, but anytime she became scared or uncertain without another horse to follow she would do this.

The hard surfaces hurt her feet. She is used to soft ground in the pasture and rubber footing in the arena. She is barefoot with 4 white hooves. She's 12.2 hands and I weigh 110, so I don't think I should try to ride her anywhere off property but the woods where the ground will be soft. She really wanted to walk on the dirt next to the road and she even looked a little sore in her feet when we got back home (I only walked for maybe 10 minutes).

Considering this info, I'm thinking the best thing for me to do would be to to trailer her to the woods with our old TB and just let her follow him on her first trail ride. Does this sound about right? In the meantime my plan is to do arena work like normal so she can get in shape, disciplined, and recover her work ethic.

Now here is a question: Is there a real benefit to getting her to be able to be ridden around the property? She is definitely barn sour and it will probably be quite a struggle on my part to make this happen. I'm just wondering how beneficial this would be considering she will not be anywhere near the barn if I trailer her to the woods. I feel like their could be benefit because it might help her learn that she is simply not allowed to throw me off and go wherever she wants. I think it might be worth it, but I thought I would get some input.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

your idea to trailer to woods with your other horse is the best one yet.

personally, when I read your description, I hear a hrose with more issues than you think. rearing, bucking, spinning, bolting, baulking. I just wouldn't take such a horse out in the woods, at all, personally. I'd either ask a really confident rider to do it for me, the first 5 or 6 times, and/or, I'd work on the ground at getting her to go places when I am 'sending' her , rahter than leading her. this builds up her confidence to go forward without you in the lead. 

I'd work on the baulking, too. if it's her being barn sour, then use the technique where you work her hard near the place she WANTS to be at, then take her further away and if she'll go, let her rest, farther away from her 'magnet' place, and if she turns and goes back, LET HER. let her go there as fast as she wants, as long as it's not a gallop, and when she gets there, keep her going! cantering in circles if you can. then offer her to leave.

rinse and repeat. 

your pony is making so many of the decisions that I would not feel safe on her out in the woods. you have settled for her to have these bad habits in exchange for he being 'good' under a certain set of circumstances that SHE dictates.

my grandmother used to say, "If you sue for peace at 'any" price, the price just keeps getting higher"


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

I understand what you're saying.

Let me just make sure I was clear in my description:
A lot of these things I describe are things that she used to do. Like when she was 6 years old. She's so much better now. I know that rearing is a serious problem and I've worked with her a lot on this. She has only bolted once, and it was my fault. She was super green and I asked her to do something that really scared her. Same with bucking. To be totally honest, I haven't tried to ride her away from the barn in a long time. I stopped because she kept throwing me and I felt like it would be bad to let her throw me over and over again. She might actually be okay now, or at least easier to convince to be okay now that she is a bit older. She is 100% great in the ring now and she didn't used to be.

I am the first to admit that I am not sure how to deal with her being barn sour. I would love to work on it, though.

Personally, I think she would be okay in the woods as long as she is allowed to follow another horse. Sometimes I think it's hard to understand what a horse is like over words on a forum. I don't think she is that bad. She does have problems, but are there many horses anywhere that don't require some work? I think she is actually very sound of mind if she is confident in what she's doing. I am open, however, to the possibility that it wouldn't be safe. I am here to learn. I would be happy to provide more info/videos/whatever that could better evaluate whether or not I am about to make a poor decision.

I really appreciate your advise on working with the baulking and barn sourness. I will use it. Taking her to the woods is not something that can happen yet because of the weather, so this is why I'm asking early. I want to figure out what I need to do to reach the ultimate goal of getting her used to trails. Please let me understand your advise better. When you say work her hard at the place where she wants to be, what kind of work do you mean? would longeing be acceptable, or does it have to be riding? I only ask because she place where she wants to be is not very big so I'm not sure about riding there. Secondly, can you tell me more about "sending" her ahead? What does this actually entail? Thirdly, I was a little confused when you said if she turns back I should let her go? You mean if I ride her away from the barn and she turns around to go back, I should let her go back to the barn? I interpreted it as allowing her to go back to the barn but then working her when I get there. Then I offer her the chance to go away from the barn and have a break. Is this correct?

I know I have a lot to learn, so I would love to learn what I can from this forum. I have a good foundation, I think, but there is a lot I don't know.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

about the barn sourness:

yes, you allow the horse to choose where it wants to be. you allow it to go back to the barn. by "allow" I mean, that , say you start down the driveway, away from the barn. horse goes the first 25 feet fine. then starts to get anstsy, you ask her to keep going forward, she resists by baulking. you use one rein to move her just a bit to the right, to 'unlock' her feet, but she just goes a step right, then does a 180. you do nothing until she is facing back the direction she wants to go. you neither counter her turn, nor initiate it. but, she will try to go back. if she wants to rear, use one rein to tip her to one side or the other and she'll take that 'inch' and go for the 'mile' , which is heading back.

let her. just let her go . and when you get to a place as near to the barn as possible, I bet in HER mind she will think "ok, we're here now, I can stop". but, you do not let her stop. at all. you keep her feet moving. faster than she wants to. a trot is just fine. but, you can make it harder for her by trotting small circles or figures of 8. keep her moving. make it a bit quick and a bit uncomfortable for her.

that is the point; that you let her find out that her idea of staying at the barn doesnt work out so well, . . but when you offer her to go down the road a bit, she gets to stop and stand and rest and be petted. 

this could take all day, several days , to make it work.

and, it's just a start. if this pony is not a confident mare, then approaching it little by little. 
but , the thing is, the more you provide her with absolute certainty that YOU know things will be ok, the more comfortable she will feel.


as to 'sending her somewhere', that means using the lead rope to ask her to step ahead of you, such as through a gate, or over a cavaletti, or into a trailer or ?


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Okay. Thanks for explaining more, that makes sense to me. I used a trainer for several years, so I feel like I have the ability to do all of these things if only I know what to do. Like I said, the foundation is there, maybe just not the knowing what to do when. Once there is a bit less mud around here, I will give this a try. Definitely sounds a lot more productive than fighting with her and getting thrown off.

She is not a confident mare, so I will definitely work on being a stronger leader for her.

Understood about sending her ahead. I will try this too.

Thanks! I'm glad I have some stuff to do with her now.


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

So I gave this advice a try today and I would love some feedback on what I learned and what I ended up doing. I hope I made the right calls.

Most importantly, here is what I learned; To this pony, the barn /= the place where work stops. To her, the barn = safety and other horses. I truly believe that this behavior comes from a place of fear and lack of confidence. Doesn't make it any less bratty or unacceptable, but I think it does change the dynamic.

So I got on her and did what I was told for a while. I walked her away from the barn as far as she would go and she would eventually stop and balk and make little threats of rearing. I would give her an inch and she took a mile, as you said. Then I worked her at the barn. Trotting circles, doing figure eights, etc (area too small to canter). I was doing this for a pretty good while (longer than my current fitness level could really take) and I started to realize she was actually getting worse. Each time I offered her to chance to leave the barn and have a rest, she would stop earlier than before. I decided that this wasn't really working and all I was accomplishing was teaching her she can go to the barn if she spins around. She seemed totally content to trot in circles and do tight figure eights as long as she could do it at the barn.

At this point I decided to try something else. I walked her to the edge of the barn and I stopped. We stood there and I petted her and praised her and told her what a good girl she was. I would urge her forward and she might take like 2 tiny steps. Awesome, pets and praise and what a good girl. I was also thinking about whoever it was in this thread who told me "don't borrow trouble". I decided to stop assuming she was going to throw me off and started not allowing her to turn around. I would ask her to go forward and if she started making her threats to rear and trying to spin I just corrected her position with rein and leg. She never reared. I made it a point to not fight with her. If I asked her to go forward and instead got a mini-fit I just made sure to keep her facing forward and then we would stand. We would stand for a long time and then I would ask again. We very slowly made our way farther and farther from the barn this way. Very slowly. But she seemed tense, so at this point I was thinking she was really just scared to have to go places without following a human or other horse. And eventually (still not totally sure why) she just started walking forward. No more balking or trying to spin. Just walking. She was really tense and spooked at just about everything (even though she walks around this place freely all the time). But we spent the next probably 30 minutes just walking around the property. I didn't ask for anything else, I just let her look at stuff and tried to be reassuring when she became afraid of things. At first I stayed far away from the barn until I was sure she wasn't going to start fighting me to go back. Eventually we were able to walk right past the barn several times and go all the way to the end of the property.

My plan is to keep doing this until she is 100% fine being ridden anywhere on the property. I think I've realized that she really needs to be worked away from other horses to help her build much-needed confidence. Honestly, I think she will be perfectly safe on the trail as long as their is another horse. The trail by herself is something much farther down the road.

So I would love any feedback anyone can give me and the decisions I made and conclusions I came to.


----------



## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm no trainer, not even close. But I was able to take my mare (who I believe was primarily an arena and backyard horse before I got her) from balking at riding out alone to enjoying it. There was nothing complicated about it-we simply went a few more feet away from the barn every day. At first it was (agonizingly) slow-to the end of the driveway and back; two front feet on the street and back; across the street and back, etc. After a couple of weeks of this, we got out of sight of the barn. Things went more quickly at that point. During this time, we only walked. A "real" trainer would have rolled their eyes at us and accomplished all of this in a day or so, or even in a few hours, as this is a good minded mare with a solid foundation. But for a semi-nervous adult re-rider, it took the time it took. When I was more confident, she was able to do more. Or I was 

You asked if it would be worth riding around the property. In my humbly non-expert opinion, I say absolutely. Fight those small fights-real or imagined-in a place where YOU feel comfortable, especially because it also sounds like it will put her slightly out of her comfort zone so you're pushing her too.

In my experience, "work her hard where she wants to be" didn't work at all. My horse did what yours did-she'd trot circles (increasingly fast and more unbalanced) all day if she could just stay right next to the barn. I respect that people much more experienced than me have success with that, but it was not a strategy I could implement effectively. 

Good luck and keep us posted!


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

To me, a horse you can't even ride from the barn tot he arena, is not ready to be ridden out.
All you are going to be, is a passenger, relying on the other horses to keep your pony listening. Not good in my books
I would ride her around
home first, and if you don't have the training or the 'tools', to ride her at least from the barn tot he arena, then she has huge holes that will make trail riding her, not truly safe. I agree with what Tiny said-this horse is telling you where she will ride.
I will give you an additional phrase, that I strongly believe in, from John Lyons, not that I am a disciple of his, but this statement is pretty solid:
'
Ride a horse where you can, until you can ride him where you now can not'. Everytime you tried to ride her from the barn to the arena, and did not have the body control on this pony to do so, with the pony tossing you, you have taught this pony that if she does not wish to ride somewhere, she can balk , buck whatever

Now, you have a bad habit to fix, and that can mean having someone ride her that can push her through stuff. If she needs more arena work, geared not at what she has been doing there, but working on body control, do that, and' THEN Ride her like you own her!'
A qoute from another trainer that helped me a bunch!


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

This sticky thread at the top of the training forum never gets old to me. I've read it and re read it many times.
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-training/how-we-train-fearless-trail-horse-99776/


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Okay. I appreciate everyone's input.

It's interesting that there are two pretty opposite ways of doing the same thing posted in a row. Egrogan, you seem like you basically did what I did today. The slow approach. I don't know if it's conventional but it did seem to work. She eventually just accepted that she had to walk around the property.

Smilie,

I appreciate your input. You're right that she has gaps in her training, I won't deny that. But just to be clear, it seems that I actually can ride her around the property. I proved that today. I'm going to keep doing it until it just isn't an issue anymore. And you're definitely also right that I taught her she can throw me if she doesn't want to go somewhere. I'd like to think I made a step in the right direction today, even if it wasn't in the way a lot of people would do it. I was happy that I was able to walk her around. My seat has also significantly improved over time and she has become a lot more reluctant to actually throw me, so I feel this is good. I felt very stable and confident on her today.

A couple of questions I would be interested in your answers to.
First, you say I might need to have someone ride her who can push her through stuff. Like I said earlier in this thread, I think I have the skills to do these things, I just don't really know what the best way to go about it is. My seat has significantly improved since she was throwing me (hasn't happened in years) and my general riding skills have improved too. I did learn under a trainer, so I feel like I have foundation. What do you mean by pushing her through? Like what would I actually do? I'd be happy to try it if I know what to do. 
Secondly, there seems to a general consensus that allowing her to follow another horse on the trail is not a great idea. I'm genuinely curios, why not? For a pony with such little confidence, would following a horse on a trail not help her build her confidence?

Cordillera Cowboy, thanks for the link! I hadn't seen it before. I skimmed through it (will read more thoroughly later). Funny, that is pretty much the opposite of what I was doing today. I was letting her explore and look at stuff. I thought if she just looked at things and approached things at her own pace she would feel more comfortable. I was also worried about overwhelming her and causing her to panic. I guess I have a lot to learn before I'll be ready to trail ride!


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

"Pushing the horse through it", to me, means to keep the horse straight and moving forward.

And kudos for modifying your approach after recognizing that working the circles and figure 8's near the barn were having no effect. Not all techniques work on all horses. It's good to have plenty of tools in your toobox. A good mind is the best tool of all. 

I had a similar time with a balky, barn sour horse some time ago. It would balk at leaving the property alone. The only route off the property was on a paved public road. The critters repertoire of evasive tactics included dancing, and the duck and spin. I didn't want to push through those in traffic on a paved road. We have a nice little perimeter trail around the farm. But the horse would not balk there. I suppose it could tell it wasn't leaving the farm. 

I used that "ride where you can, until you can ride where you can't" technique. I took the horse to the road, but turned back before it refused. Each time, we got a bit farther. One day, I joined up with a group ride. The horse did fine with groups, and knew we were going out together. But, I pushed out ahead, out of site of the others. The horse did fine. We never did have that fight on the asphalt.


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

I see. I guess the thing I am unclear on is how to keep a horse moving forward that does not want to. My seat is better, but I don't know that I want to induce a freak-out full of rearing and spinning around if I try to _force_ her to keep going. Isn't there some kind of balance between keeping a horse comfortable but also demanding obedience? To me, it made sense to simply give her two options; she could stand in that one spot forever, or she could move forward. Going back wasn't an option since I could successfully stop her from turning around. I'm not confident that I could successfully stop her from turning around AND make her go forward. That's how I was getting thrown in the past. She did seem to eventually get bored of standing in one spot and saw that I wasn't going to give up or let her turn around, so decided that letting me ride her around the property was the better option even though it was scary for her.

Is the slow approach not the right way to do it? If there is one, I'd like to find the flaw in my thought process and correct it. I'm trying to provide details as to how I'm thinking so I can figure out if I'm thinking about it wrong. I'd also like to know if there is some better way of doing this.

EDIT: Also wanted to add. I think she could definitely benefit from some body control work in the arena. I'll get on top of this too.


----------



## Cordillera Cowboy (Jun 6, 2014)

Espy said:


> I see. I guess the thing I am unclear on is how to keep a horse moving forward that does not want to. My seat is better, but I don't know that I want to induce a freak-out full of rearing and spinning around if I try to _force_ her to keep going. Isn't there some kind of balance between keeping a horse comfortable but also demanding obedience? To me, it made sense to simply give her two options; she could stand in that one spot forever, or she could move forward. Going back wasn't an option since I could successfully stop her from turning around. I'm not confident that I could successfully stop her from turning around AND make her go forward. That's how I was getting thrown in the past. She did seem to eventually get bored of standing in one spot and saw that I wasn't going to give up or let her turn around, so decided that letting me ride her around the property was the better option even though it was scary for her.
> 
> *I suppose the unspoken part of "pushing a horse through" is being able to ride out what ever tantrum the horse throws at you in the process. I do believe that the forward seat favored by hunter/jumpers puts the rider at a disadvantage if the horse really acts up. I come from the western tradition, but I favor longer stirrups and sort of a modified dressage seat. That allows my own weight and balance to help keep me in place rather than brute strength. *
> 
> ...


*Agreed. The more responsive your horse is to those cues, the better you'll be able to communicate through the fog in its head when it's acting up. *


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Glad you are making some progress.
When you do ride her out, you must be sure that you can ride to a certain point, and if you can;t push her forward beyond that point, then you turn her around before you reach that point
The fact being, the hrose did not know how far you intended to ride, just that it was you who decided as to how far. Build on that.
If instead, you let the horse win, let the horse decide when to ride back, you will be riding a shorter and shorter distance each time.
In other words, don't ask a horse to ride beyond a certain point, until you know you can do so.
Far as why it is bad idea , just to let ahorse that is not truly 'broke., following another horse on a ride, is because when riding out, I want my horse to consider me as his source of confidence, and not another horse.
Should that other horse spook, take off, whatever, you are SOL, as your horse will not remain in control. You are depending on your safety, based on how well that other horse rides, and not on how much respect/trust your horse has in you
That is also why I always ride my green horses out by themselves first, before ever riding with other horses. 
Hubby just trail rides to get into wilderness, so his horse never gets ridden alone. Therefore, no matter if I am riding a green horse, or one of my 'broke horses, hubby depends on my horse to,lead, give confidence to his hrose.
Back when we were still actively raising horses, and when I would always give hubby a young horse to ride also, thus selling our more seasoned trail horses, I put one of his 'experienced' trail horse up for sale. The horse had never been ridden out alone, since either I or my oldest son put a start on him.
I thus decided That i had better put some solo rides on him, after putting him up for sale. 
He took me by surprise, first time I asked him to ride out alone, by balking and dropping tot he ground.
Next time, I was ready for him. I put a snaffle in his mouth, and when he balked by going down, I stepped off quickly, ran one rein behind the cantle of the saddle, sat on his neck and held him down.
Quite a mind change, taking the ability to get up away! He rode off and never offered to balk again. People who bought him, e mailed me as to what a great trail horse he was.
Far s body control, the ability to take the head away, also preventing ahorse to engage his hips, which he has to do in order to rear, all are tools you need to ride a horse through stuff.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Far as barn sour, make the barn not such a great place to be. Sure, you can try the 'work them hard there, but there are other deterrents.
Tie the horse up, alone, in that barn, once you get back, and never just turn back out with buddies, nor feed , soon as you get back


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Okay, I have another question. You say that it's best to be able to ride out tantrums and push a horse through stuff. But if the tantrums are motivated by fear, is that really a good thing to just keep pushing the horse and letting it freak out? I feel she panics and wants to go back to the barn. Assuming I could stay on through whatever she did, wouldn't it be sort of a bad, scary experience for her? I'm really just trying to understand the best I can. I hear a lot about celebrating small victories. That's sort of what I was going for. She takes two tiny steps forward rather than backwards and it's a big deal, she gets complete release of pressure and gets praise and pets. I guess I'm getting confused between pushing her through this, and celebrating small victories. In my experience you're right that the seat favored by hunter/jumpers does make it harder to stay on if the horse wants you off. But I really like my discipline and it's what I'm comfortable doing.

She is my own horse and she lives on my property, so I definitely do have the luxury of time. She's also a very forgiving pony, which I'm grateful for. She really has a good mind, I think a lot of these problems are really my problems with knowing what to ask of her and not being a strong enough leader for her.

Another question. You said that I should only ride her to a point that I know she won't stop. I can do that, but if the sort of stop-and-go method I used got her _past_ the point where she would normally stop, is this not kind of better? 

I understand why relying on another horse to keep her calm isn't a good idea. You're probably right that if the other horse spooked, she would too. I think I do want to work on her solo.

I'll take her to the ring and work on what you said about body control. We both need that, I think.

Good point on the barn sourness. I usually do turn her out with her buddies when we're done working. But I'll try tying her for a while after we get back before turning her back out.

I wanted an opinion on another thing. I was thinking next time I try to ride her away from the barn (when I can do it mostly depends on the weather, it hasn't been great lately) I would wear a little spur. She is definitely classified as a "pusher" in the ring and I usually do wear a small spur or she takes an incredible amount of energy to keep her going at a forward pace. I didn't wear a spur last time because I wasn't sure how she was going to be. But I wonder if a spur would be the extra pressure she needs to keep moving forward? Let you know what you all think.


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Okay, so hopefully you guys aren't getting annoyed at all these posts.

So I feel sort of silly! I think I made a really big deal out of something that wasn't really a big deal. After reading all of your advice, I took a slightly more forceful approach. I put on a little spur and just made her go forward away from the barn. She did throw tantrums, lots of jumping around and acting like she was going to rear (but no actual rearing, so maybe that habit is gone permanently). But she gave up after I didn't come off for like 5 minutes. We trotted around the property. This time I made sure to make her go past things she was scared of with speed rather than letting her look at stuff. I even decided I was confident enough to take her outside of my property. We only went like maybe 100 feet. I didn't want to encounter any barking dogs yet. We passed a _really_ scary rock and she didn't balk or try to spin or anything. She just tensed up and walked right past it.

I think she will make a good trail pony in time. There is something I'm wondering, though. I don't know how she would handle something like off leash dogs in the woods, but I imagine not good. I wanted to try getting her more used to dogs by going past the ones behind fences on the dirt road near my property. It's a very quiet road, so I think it would be safe. The only problem is that hard surfaces hurt her feet. I imagine that's because she has all white hooves and no shoes. Would shoes solve the problem? I'm kind of reluctant to put shoes on her because she has never needed them. I'm worried that she will need them on trails, though. Advice on this?


----------



## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Boots! I just had my mare fitted for Renegades but haven't gotten them yet. I think her heistancy is arthritis rather than in her feet-but I've heard great reviews from people who use them on horses who are sensitive on hard footing.

Glad you had a good ride. Keep building on it.


----------



## Espy (Feb 25, 2015)

Oh, cool. I didn't know those existed. They're a bit pricey at $100 per a boot, but I suppose that would be cheaper than shoeing her all year! I'll think about it and look around at various options.

At least, I'm pretty sure it is pain. She takes much shorter, more careful steps on hard surfaces and gravitates towards the parts where there is dirt. I guess I'm not sure if it hurts or if she is just uncomfortable walking on the pavement/dirt road/rocks/whatever.


----------



## ThatAppyLover13 (Apr 9, 2017)

Honestly, as a person who doe trails A LOT, the best thing you can do is to stay calm. If she feels that you are calm it will help her through difficult situations. As others have said sometimes starting with leading your own horse can be good and then start moving on to someone else leading then perhaps progressing to riding with someone else. A very big suggestion is to buy a bum bag to store your phone and a hoof pick in case of hoof issues or you get lost or something along those lines. I wish you good luck and happy riding!


----------

