# Lion riding a horse



## Zab

I saw this when I googled

Personally, I don't really see why so man get upset by it. The horse doesn't seem scared, or look like he's breaking his back by the weight.I rather find the act rather sweet and amazing; how it's possible to get two natural enemies to work together.
So the act in itself seem ok for me.. especially if the horse had been a little bigger and more muscular.

But there might be other things that makes it cruel; how is it trained? With patience and calm, or with whips and straps?
Has the lion had it's teeth and claws removed? How nice is that? (claws cut is one thing.. but pulled out? And teeth?)
How about the safety? Are they sure the lion won't attack (if it had teeth left)?
How long time anf how often does the horse carry that weight? Is it trained to be srong enough for it?

And the horse could need more food and more muscle, and there are certainly more things that's not alright.

*But what do you think? Is it animal cruelty just to have a lion riding a horse like this? In that case; why?*


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## Pinto Pony

The act itself wouldn't be so bad depending on the training techniques as you mentioned but I highly doubt after reading that article that these animals are being cared for in a suitable fashion. They state that animals are kept in solitary confinement in small cages. Also that horse being made to move with a huge weight on his back on that hard surface 

I also don't think feeding live animals as a show for spectators is appropriate. I know there is a food chain out in the wild but for human entertainment purposes, kinda makes me sick.


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## RusticWildFire

I'm not so sure that I'm a fan.. the horse doesn't look completely _TERRIFIED_ so to say but it doesn't look happy. I don't like the idea of that heavy of an animal jumping on the horses back.. Cool to see they get along and all but it doesn't impress me that much.


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## smrobs

*:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:I dont agree with this at all. Look at how much weight they are making that horse carry. That lion is nearly as big as the horse.*


 

If you look in his eyes, you can't tell me that horse is not scared. 



Me personally, i think that this is disgusting and should never be allowed. but that is just me.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

*Wow...*

Rediculous...totally not "normal" and shouldnt be allowed :evil::shock:


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## meggymoo

:shock: I thought I had read the title wrong when I first clicked on the thread. I have to say, I dont agree with that one bit. It looks to me like the horse is terrified. Some humans just dont deserve animals. But that is just my opinion.

Have people been paying to watch this kind of show? I suppose that is a silly question really. Sorry. There must be some kind of market or attraction to it or the man wouldn't of thought of such a unusual thing/trick in the first place.


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## Solon

The weight of an average african lion is 300 to 500 lbs.; the average weight of a medium/large pony is 200 to 500.

So that lion shouldn't be riding that pony. If is was a smaller lion or a bigger horse it probably wouldn't at least look so bad weight wise. It's like a circus act side show a way to draw in people.

I don't agree with it, but for some people that's their sort of thing.


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## Painted Ride

*honestly it looks poorly photo shopped to me!!!* but if this were true the person who arranged this should have to be the one to get to clip the lions claws!!


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## Angel_Leaguer

I dont like circus acts in the least bit. The horse is too small for what it is carring and it is scared...


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## TxHorseMom

That poor horse looks terrified. I don't agree with it at all. The weight is way too much too. Why do so many people get upset when an overweight person rides a horse but not a 300-500lb lion?


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## Jubilee Rose

I am not going to lie, that picture SHOCKED and HORRIFIED me. That is terrible. There is no reason in the world that people should even do this. For a good show?? That horse is scared to death and I agree, the lion weighs almost as much as the horse.

Unjustly cruel. :evil::evil::evil::evil:


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## Zab

I'm glad this came to a discussion  I've read all answers and it has been interesting.

I can't agree that the horse is overly scared, it looks fine to me. 
I feel that the scared feeling some people talk about is more because humans think horses must be scared of lions. But if my cat and my previous rats could willingly sleep together, I don't see why a horse can't accept a lion on it's back without fear.
And I still don't see anything wrong with just having a lion ride a horse.
BUT I do see lots of problems with THAT lion riding THAT horse in THAT environment, and lots of things around it, like training, size, ground etc etc
There's no reason in the world that humans should ride either, except our high pleasure, so circus acts that doesn't injure horses or other animals are fine to me. As long as the animals are trained well both physically and mentally for the act, and are treated with respect. Which I have no clue if it's the case here, but the horse doesn't seem big or strong enough. And I do hope that saddle fits well or else that'd probably hurt a lot.

Anyway, I'm glad there were so many opinions about this


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## Skyhuntress

let's look at this from a logical point of view.
they are asking an animal who is by nature a prey animal to be ridden by an animal that would normally kill it. 
that's sick and disgusting, and there is no way in the world anyone could tell me that that horse is not terrified out of its mind.
add to the fact that lions weigh in at about 400lbs, and it just doubles the cruelty. Can you imagine how much hurt that horse would be in when the lion had to jump on his back!? 
its sick and disjusting.


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## Zab

Skyhuntress said:


> let's look at this from a logical point of view.
> they are asking an animal who is by nature a prey animal to be ridden by an animal that would normally kill it.
> that's sick and disgusting, and there is no way in the world anyone could tell me that that horse is not terrified out of its mind.


Uhm..you've forgotten that humans normally (naturally) kill horses? They were food long before they were pets.


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## Skyhuntress

humans, on the other hand, don't have massive claws and really sharp teeth that they shove in front of the horse either though...


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## Zab

I assume yoy think it's just as bad to have dogs at the stable, and that the horses are absolutely terrified of dogs and can't ever get used to them? Dogs too are predators and naturally attack horses (in pack, but still predators). 
Just because humans thinks lions are bigger, more excotic and dangerous than we'd thnk a wolf or dog, doesn't mean the horse thinks of it like that. It's no harder to get the horse used to a lion than to get it used to a dog. It's all about experiences.
Stat calm, let the horse get used to it and make the xperience with the other animal nice, the horse will accept it.

It's incredible what horses can learn to accept without being scared. Shouting crowds, fireworks etc not to mention having a human on it's back and steering.


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## PoptartShop

Eh...I still think it's wrong. The lion is much bigger & more powerful.
Poor horses; their backs..


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## Gingerrrrr

no matter what, it is DEFINITELY not acceptable for that lion to ride that horse. ever. i dont care what people say, that horse is scared.


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## Jubilee Rose

Gingerr, I agree 100%!


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## mkl039

*Ridiculous, Stupid, Unsafe, Abusive, Harrasment.*

:evil: That poor horse is terrified. I personally believe that circus acts should be stopped. Look at that horses eyes. I feel just awful looking at that. Ridiculous. Not to mention that lion doesn't weigh 5 pounds, its huge. Wow, so this is what the world is coming to. Not worthy to own a horse if you want to do that. :-x I'm disgusted with this.


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## Gingerrrrr

heres another one. and this time the bear is hooked to the horse by a metal ring threw its nose. its a shame....


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## Zab

yeah... tying anything to a horse is bad enough.. and through the nose too..Oo but that horse doesn't look scared either.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

Zab said:


> yeah... tying anything to a horse is bad enough.. and through the nose too..Oo but that horse doesn't look scared either.


Are you serious? Cant you see that it IS scared? Honestly...:evil::roll: how can you not see the fear in both the situations? It is so unatural...circus acts and similar ones are just sick and wrong...rediculous


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## Painted Ride

photo shop!!!! look at it really well....this is not real!


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## Zab

It is real, I've seen it on video in a documentary as well.

Curly_horse_CMT: yeah, I'm serious. I think you people are imagining that fear because you think it's unatural. There is nothing that say a horse must be scared by having large predators aroud them. I can sense some level of being uncomfortable, but not any fear of the lion/bear. They're alreay so used to have those animals there and around them, they're no longer afraid of them. A scared horse wouldn't trot that casually and simply it just doesn't look frightened. On the documentary I saw it was even nuzzeling the lion (through bars) when they lead it past his cage. Their pens/cages were next to each other and the horse didn't mind at all. Didn't see any tension like that when the lion jumped up (on the film) either, other than that the horse threw his head up for a second in the landing, probably due to the weight.

I'm not saying that particular show is good, lots of things in the training methods and keeping of the animals could improve, but the horse was more nervous around the humans than around the lion. So I don't see anything wrong with the circus trick, if they just change to a bigger horse, smaller lion, care better for the animals health and train them differently etc. The thing with a horse carrying predator isn't that bad or weird.
And as I said; humans are predators too, we might not have teeth and fangs, but we have whips and spurs. We smell meat-eater and we move like a predator. Still we can get the horses used to us, so why it should be so bad and impossible to get them used to a lion or a bear, I don't see.

And this about circus acts altogether being bad for the horse just makes me laugh. (some previous comment). Dressage (todays, modern dressage), supposed to be the best and most constructive, sound, strengthening riding... started in a circus. (I guess western being the one most used for real work)
First there were academic dressage, then ''knightly'' games got forbidden on several locations, and english riding came to life; that is: trail riding, hunting, steeplechase and the like. But Baucher started mixing the old academic dressage with the new, free (english) riding. ''The new method'' is the base to what top riders use today. And Baucher got known for his training and riding - when he had become a famous circus artist and showed his horses on the circus. Modern dressage was born. I'm thinking of it because it's not the first time I hear especially dressage riders comment that ''circus tricks'' (mostly the spanish walk, prancing, bowing and the like) shouldn't be performed because it's no real riding and has no purpose. But what is dressage nowadays other than a form of circus? You show how well you and your horse can do different tricks that there is no use for in daily life, riding altogether is pretty useless in most cases, just good for our pleasure. Still that is ok, but circus acts are not? 
But now I've wandered off the topic.

Well, that's my point of view. And I don't see any fear in the horse. It's perhaps a little stressed due to the crowd and the training it has gotten, but it's not afraid of the lion.
But I see problems with how everything is cared for, and the weight issues.

Then you can think I'm blind or whatever, but I know what a scared horse looks like. If I hadn't known that, I'd never come so far with groundwork wth my own horse, because I wouldn't be able to see when I was stepping on his limits and should stop to keep him from getting scared. I'm not a good rider, but I love to work with horses from the ground, and especially to get them used to ''scary'' things and see them overcome their fears. And I'm good at that.


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## PoptartShop

I thought it was photoshopped too at first; but sadly, it is not.


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## amandaandeggo

totaly against it . . . i just wanna take the horse and hug him and turn him out in a feild and let him live life like a horse . . . its not right . . . and it should be outlawed . . . its dangerous . . . and stupid . . . and everything in a horses natural instints tells it that when a big predator leaps on to its back . . . is that predator is trying to kill the horse!!! there is no good reason why stupid things like this should amuse people !!!


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## whitetrashwarmblood

Zab said:


> I assume yoy think it's just as bad to have dogs at the stable, and that the horses are absolutely terrified of dogs and can't ever get used to them? Dogs too are predators and naturally attack horses (in pack, but still predators).


I have seen and heard about many horses at my barn and other barns attack, injure, and even kill dogs just because they got too close to a horse. I think horses can be taught to get used to dogs, but I don't think that horses are terrified of them. 



Zab said:


> Just because humans thinks lions are bigger, more excotic and dangerous than we'd thnk a wolf or dog, doesn't mean the horse thinks of it like that.


Lions eat zebras. Zebras are like horses. Yes, I know, some people eat horses too. But horses AND dogs have been taught for hundreds of years if not a few thousands of years to be comfortable around people. 



Zab said:


> It's incredible what horses can learn to accept without being scared. Shouting crowds, fireworks etc not to mention having a human on it's back and steering.


Shouting crowds and fireworks aren't nearly as dangerous as a hungry lion on your back. If you could would you run around out there with one on your back? Roaring in your ear, gripping your shoulders with it's claws, being whipped at by the ring leader, and knowing that at any given moment that thing could attack you and more than likely kill you... Yea, I think I'll pass. :???: And besides, like someone else on here once said, I'm pretty much a pez dispenser to my horses. As long as a few yummy treats are involved they really could careless if i decide to go for a ride. =P


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## Zab

whitetrashwarmblood said:


> I have seen and heard about many horses at my barn and other barns attack, injure, and even kill dogs just because they got too close to a horse. I think horses can be taught to get used to dogs, but I don't think that horses are terrified of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Lions eat zebras. Zebras are like horses. Yes, I know, some people eat horses too. But horses AND dogs have been taught for hundreds of years if not a few thousands of years to be comfortable around people.
> 
> *Wolves eat elks, elks are bigger than horses. Hyenas chases zebras. Other canines eat horse-like beings. Differense except for the pack?*
> *And if that's so.. how come that unbroken, unhandeled foals/yearlings doesn't run up to humans and accept being led and touched by them automatically?
> They've lost some of their instincts to escape predators, but doesn't only count forhumans, that counts for pretty much everything that normally would be dangerous. Including lions.*
> 
> 
> Shouting crowds and fireworks aren't nearly as dangerous as a hungry lion on your back. If you could would you run around out there with one on your back? Roaring in your ear, gripping your shoulders with it's claws, being whipped at by the ring leader, and knowing that at any given moment that thing could attack you and more than likely kill you... Yea, I think I'll pass. :???: And besides, like someone else on here once said, I'm pretty much a pez dispenser to my horses. As long as a few yummy treats are involved they really could careless if i decide to go for a ride. =P


Much like humans then. Sitting on the back, clinging to the horse (tack) pain through bits when the rider looses balance, loss of balance, noises. They're generally not happy to have us up there the first time either, but they learn to accept it.
It's all about the training.
And when did the whipping ring leader get involved by the ''fact'' that horses can't possibly get used to have a predator on their backs and feel fine with it, ever?

I'm not going to argu with yo people. I've already told my points several times and if you refuse to understand or accept them, it's up to you.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

Zab said:


> Much like humans then. Sitting on the back, clinging to the horse (tack) pain through bits when the rider looses balance, loss of balance, noises. They're generally not happy to have us up there the first time either, but they learn to accept it.
> It's all about the training.
> And when did the whipping ring leader get involved by the ''fact'' that horses can't possibly get used to have a predator on their backs and feel fine with it, ever?
> 
> I'm not going to argu with yo people. I've already told my points several times and if you refuse to understand or accept them, it's up to you.


Yeah, but your points arent understandable to me. I refuse to accept them. And, yes, that is up to me.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

Yeah, us riding horses isnt so called "natural". But it has been around for thousands of years. Lions are more popular and more natural? Honestly..:roll:


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## PoptartShop

& you have to remember lions are heavy too...& way more dangerous/scary than us humans (to most horses)- so you can't really compare.


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## Small_Town_Girl

I don't agree with this act at all, I think it's kind of cruel...:sad:

First of all, the horse doesn't seem to happy about this...notice the
bulging of the eyes...

Also, I agree...there is no telling how much that friggin' lion and tiger weighs!

I've also heard about these types of circus animals such as lions and
tigers snapping and going berserk...that horse is in potential danger.


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## Rachluvshorses4eva

I don't care if it's not that bad. I'm totally against it. I hate the idea of it. It is cruel. And, call me racist, but some of the things they have been doing with animals over there recently has not made me happy. At all. It has made me sad and very, very angry!


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## Rachluvshorses4eva

BTW-If you think it is photo shoped there is a video on you tube of a tiger riding a horse. Now that can NOT be photo shopped as it is a video? Believe it now?

(sorry for double post)


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## RusticWildFire

Okay, well think about it this way..(sorry if this has been posted. I haven't read it all) but even IF this horse wasn't scared _at that time _how did they train the horse? I can just about guarantee you it was frightened in the beginning. To me it looks scared even now though..and the weight..ugh.


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## equineangel91

That horse is too small to carry a feaking lion! maybe if it was a 17hh clydesdale itd be a little easier... and if the training is proper and the horse IS NOT AFRAID then itd be fine...but that horse looks agitated and scared to me


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

equineangel91 said:


> That horse is too small to carry a feaking lion! maybe if it was a 17hh clydesdale itd be a little easier... and if the training is proper and the horse IS NOT AFRAID then itd be fine...but that horse looks agitated and scared to me


I dont know if that kind of circuis act would be fine, no matter what was done to make it look "better" for either animal. :???:


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## Countrygal108

I can see where little dogs riding ponies around would be cute. And I could even see maybe a baby lion cub. But a full grown lion is way to big. Also, I wonder if they realized how fast that lion could turn and kill that pony. He is a wild animal, they can't control him completely. It would only take one a second. And just think, it could be in front of kids. That would be bad.


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## Zab

The lion has no fangs or claws.
And if they've had it since it's a cub, they can tame it like any other animal.


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## Countrygal108

I can't say I saw that, I guess that is better then having the loin that could hurt the horse or for that matter anything or one else. Do you know the lion personally?? If the lion has not fangs then how can it eat? They must have to cut the meat in small pieces, I would think that is how. Does the lion and pony live together?? See each other everyday. Cause if so the pony may not see the lion as a beast but as a friend. Just a thought.

But you have opened up a "can of worms" cause not many people are going to think it was nice of them to cut off the claws or teeth of that animal.


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## Zab

I don't agree to pullig of claws or fangs either. Cutting the claws, possibly.
And I don't think that particular shw was very good, due to the weight issues, the ground etc and I' doubtful when it comes to how the animals are cared for. But I don't think it's cruel that a lion rides a horse just because it's a predator vs a prey. And I don't think a horse has to be scared of a lion jut because it's a lion. For all we know, they can have grown up together.

I don't know any of the animals personally, but my point is the same as yours; if the pony and lion are trained and used to each other, the horse might see the lion as a completely normal being in its life, instead of a dangerous beast.


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## Deb

meggymoo said:


> :shock: I thought I had read the title wrong when I first clicked on the thread. I have to say, I dont agree with that one bit. It looks to me like the horse is terrified. Some humans just dont deserve animals. But that is just my opinion.
> 
> Have people been paying to watch this kind of show? I suppose that is a silly question really. Sorry. There must be some kind of market or attraction to it or the man wouldn't of thought of such a unusual thing/trick in the first place.


Start doing some research on China (and other Asian countries) and animal abuse. You will find unimaginable horrors. There is one video (google China fur farms) and the last frame is a little animal called a racoon dog, lifting its little head and looking at the camera, after it has been skinned ALIVE. Cats are thrown into cauldrons of boiling water while alive, dogs are hung from nooses and then beaten as they slowly strangle before being cooked. Korea is known for horse fighting where two stallions are beaten and abused and then when frenzied, thrown into a corral together, where there is also a mare in heat. With no way for the weaker to run, they continue fighting until one goes down. The victor gets to breed the poor mare who is tied in the middle of the arena. Then the next pair of stallions are brought in and the scene is repeated. People are worse than animals and will pay to see any kind of brutality!


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## Deb

Zab said:


> The lion has no fangs or claws.
> And if they've had it since it's a cub, they can tame it like any other animal.


Yeah, so what happened with that tiger that Seigfried and Roy raised from a cub. It nearly killed one of them.


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## Zab

wow, one occasion. No dog or hose has ever nearly killed a human.


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## Deb

I guess my point is that you suggested that if a lion/tiger is raised by man from babyhood, it is safe and I'm just reminding you that even in that instance there is always the possibility that the animals wild instinct will take over, even with the best possible upbringing and I'll bet these animals were not trained with compassion and consideration but were forced to do something totally against every natural instinct.


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## smrobs

I am disgusted by these pictures. But, in certain circumstances, any animal can be dangerous no matter what training, upbringing, or whether they are wild or domesticated. As for Segfried and Roy, that tiger did not mean to hurt him. It was treating him like a cub (if you notice, that is how all cats carry their cubs by picking them up by the neck) There was no malice in the tiger's actions and it didn't know that it was hurting him. Have you ever been kicked by a horse because you snuck up on them or a bee bit them on the butt or they thought they were defending you from another horse? If the training is right and conditions are humane, shows like this have the potential to be very amazing. But only if it is done right. This clearly wasn't.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

Zab said:


> wow, one occasion. No dog or hose has ever nearly killed a human.


Not...there have been many instances where horses and dogs have killed people...look it up :shock::?


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## Zab

I agree with you smrobs, this one had too much flaws in it, but it's not impossible to make a show like that without involving pain or fear in the horse or the lion. I get annoyed when people think that all that's unnatural is evil (it has been a lot of that lately) ond forgets how completely unnatural pretty much everything with pets and horses are, just the fact tha we ride.
There might be a risk even if the lion is well trained, but the chance that it'd both do something dangerous and is impossible to stop is rather low. Not more (probably less) than with a dog and a horse really, tho the horse is the one dangerous in that case thanks to the size.

Curly horse; I was sarcastic, I'm sorry it wasn't obvious in text.


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## RusticWildFire

Curly_Horse_CMT said:


> Not...there have been many instances where horses and dogs have killed people...look it up :shock::?



Very true, my best childhood friend had her right cheek pretty much ripped off by her neighbors dog. She has some bad scars from that.


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## Bitless

> There might be a risk even if the lion is well trained, but the chance that it'd both do something dangerous and is impossible to stop is rather low.


Are you kiding! its a friggen lion. A play bite would take your head off. Not trying to sound rude........ but it would most deffinetly not take much to loose control of such an animal no matter how well trained it is meant to be. The power behind a lion is enormous.... And as soon as natural instincts kick in you cant stop them.....as with any animal...including horses ...right down to your pet cat. 

I have seen that picture before and absoulutly dissagree with it. Not so much beacause of the predator prey match up but more so because of the most likely methods of bringing those two animals together. 
That lion has no teeth. And while cats can eat fine with no teeth I cant honeslty say that lion looks as healthy as it should. I strongly dissagree with animals for entertainment such as that...any circus with animals in it i will have nothing to do with. 

And yes simply riding a horse or even owning a horse is unatural for them but as far as i can see owning a animal ( provided its looked after to the best of your ability ) and using animals in such a fashion like in this picture, altering them to suit the act and keeping them in more than unatural conditions dont come into the same catagory. 

There is nothing cute, amazing , or whatever word ya wanna use, about such an act. Makes me furious, and i know humans do far worse to animals but that doesnt mean things like in that image are any less worth attention.


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## Zab

It's the 'predator/prey'' issue people have that I'm against, since peoples only arguement is ''it's against their instincts.''
As I've said before I don't agree with any training methods or lots of other stuff in that case, but that doesn't mean such a show can't be performed without scaring or harming the animals.


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## hillbillyin

Are you kidding me?! Does anyone on here really think you can train a horse to carry a lion without scaring it?! That horse in the second picture certainly was terrified---and that's after training! What is wrong with people anyway? Does anyone remember Siegfreid and Roy? If the trainer can be mauled, why not the "partner" of the act? I don't know, I'm just totally sickened by this---and some of us are worried about animals being slaughtered? :twisted::twisted::twisted:


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## Zab

Still nobody has given a good explanation to why it would be impossible to do.
The ''it's unnatural and the lion is a predator'' doesn't hold, since humans are predators and unatural as well.


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## kickshaw

but humans are not crouched over the horse as if they are about to snap it's neck in half.... 

lions and tigers are wild animals...they are unpredictable, no matter the extent of the training. 

If the horse was not scared, you would not see the whites of his eyes, and his head would be lower - he is trying to avoid his ears touching the lion...he's scared. 

It's not impossible to perform, because as we all have seen it has been done - the question is to weather it should be done or not...and my vote says "no".

This is no different than asking a person with a papercut to swim in front of a "trained" great white shark.


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## Bitless

> This is no different than asking a person with a papercut to swim in front of a "trained" great white shark.


Brilliant way of putting it my friend. Totally agree.


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## Wild Child

When I first saw that pic, I really thought it was fake(I have seen it before). But then I saw the second pic. I am not so sure about that. That lion seems pretty big, and I am not sure how happy that horse is with it on its back. 

*JUST TO TELL YOU, I DONT THINK ITS NOT PHOTOSHOPPED !!*
They wouldnt seriously photoshop every single pic 
*http://www.barcroftmedia.com/index.pgi*


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## Wild Child

I also hope I was aloud to post that website. If not *PLEASE* ignore it. I am really sorry if I wasn't...:?

*If I was, the last pic, totally...ARRAH...ssshhiiisshhh....!!!!!!!!*


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