# Appaloosa and/or what?



## Peppy Barrel Racing (Aug 16, 2011)

Very cool appy. Appy genetics are a weak point for me we need Faceman. Looks like a snow cap and vanish. But that's all I can tell you 
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## anndankev (Aug 9, 2010)

The pattern reminds me of my old horse Travis, except the white on your mare's neck and face. 

I was told Travis was a snowcap, but do not know about the influence of any other patterns. I'll be looking for more replies here.


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## Drifting (Oct 26, 2011)

Everything but her legs looks like a fewspot to me, but I'm not sure they're allowed to have that much color on them.

Do you have any pictures of her younger? did she start out looking like this or roaned out white? 

I'd guess she's a snow cap that's varnished out more, but hard to tell without a foal pic.

She's pretty, I like how her legs are solid.


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## kiltsrhott (Mar 11, 2012)

This looks like an extensive snowcap to me too. I have never seen the snowcap extend all the way onto the face like that, but this doesn't mean it's not possible. Very cool horse!


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

bay based snowcap with varnish roan.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Do you know the sire and dam? She looks to be a Pintaloosa to me. If so, her Appy pattern is blanket and varnish roan, overlaid with a Paint (Pinto) pattern. If she is a Pintaloosa, obviously she could not be a fewspot or snowcap.

If she IS all Appy, which I doubt, but is possible, her pattern would be blanket and varnish roan with a snowcap phenotype - could be a true or faux snowcap...


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## caljane (Feb 7, 2009)

Faceman said:


> Do you know the sire and dam? She looks to be a Pintaloosa to me. If so, her Appy pattern is blanket and varnish roan, overlaid with a Paint (Pinto) pattern. If she is a Pintaloosa, obviously she could not be a fewspot or snowcap.
> 
> If she IS all Appy, which I doubt, but is possible, her pattern would be blanket and varnish roan with a snowcap phenotype - could be a true or faux snowcap...


Her sire/dam are not known and she is not registered. My first thought was, too, "Pintaloosa", a snowcap mixed with a frame overo. But by now I've seen several pictures of snowcaps, and I don't see an overo pattern anymore (except, of course, the leg markings, but they would not make me call a horse "pintaloosa" the same than a solid horse with a star is not a "pinto" in my eyes :wink


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Again, the horse could be all Appy, but the facial markings in particular are extremely atypical of Appy markings and show a Paint pattern, and the large base colormarking under the neck - which is between the white of the face and white of the neck, scream Pintaloosa to me. Pintaloosas typically and most often have an Appy pattern in the rear and a Pinto pattern in the front...so what I see is a large blanketed Appy pattern in the rear and a Pinto pattern in the front - all being affected by the Appy varnish roaning. I could be wrong - it is hard to make a definitive guess on this horse as she is blanketed to the shoulder, but that would be my guess nonetheless. Perhaps NDAppy will check in with her opinion...she isn't on now and I checked FB and she's not on there either, but she'll show up at some point...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

This one is kind of borderline, but I've seen similar patterns on "pure" appaloosas. It's rare but it does happen. (example - DREA JESTER RED EAGLE, DREA FOUNDATION APPALOOSA and http://www.appaloosa.co.nz/progeny/whitelight.shtml)

When I've seen the color/white like that on the neck on pintaloosas the legs are not dark due to the pinto pattern putting white on the legs. 

This is one that I would want to test for pinto patterns (tobiano, frame, splash) before saying definitively one way or the other.


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## my little rudie (Jul 29, 2013)

looks almost like brindle in a few spots.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Those striations are common Appy roaning patterns that follow the ribs...


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## emcne16 (Oct 12, 2012)

Just thought I'd say that your horse is absolutely stunning!


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## Ashkat128 (Nov 4, 2013)

I agree with varnish roan. In Appaloosas varnish roan is a distinct genetic pattern similar to other appaloosa exclusive colors like leopard etc- it's part of the leopard gene complex. It differs from other breeds and is not a TRUE roan. They loose the spotting and dark areas more and more as they age, but do stay dark around immediate bony areas such as the knees, fetlocks, cheekbones and head etc. It looks to me like this horse also has a blanket extending over the withers, it just blends in to the varnish roan.

This is my 28 year old Varnish Roan gelding Royal


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Varnish does not affect spotting/spots and does not cause spots to vanish. Varnish can reveal spots as it progress (spots that are hidden by a solid color but would be visible if there were a blanket/larger blanket).


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## Ashkat128 (Nov 4, 2013)

The Varnish Roan is an Appaloosa coat pattern only found in horses Homozygous for the lp gene, appaloosa spotting such as leopard and spotted blankkets can only be found in Heterozygous individuals so a true varnish roan can not have the spots you are thinking of. I was refering to the dark splotches and marks this horse has. They will fade.


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

Where on earth did you get that info? The only pattern that indicates homozygosity in Appaloosas are snow caps and few spots. Not varnish.
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## Ashkat128 (Nov 4, 2013)

I'll try to find the original site and link it for you. It was part of my research into moon blindness a number years ago after purchasing an affected gelding. If I find credible conflicting information I'll certainly take back my statement and admit I was wrong, there's always more to learn


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## kassierae (Jan 1, 2010)

The only credible genetics site that I know of is color-genetics.info/equine, not including the actual university/genetics testing sites. Any other site is sketchy, IMO.
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## Ashkat128 (Nov 4, 2013)

You're right. I'm finding a few good sources listing Varnish roans as heterozygous, so I apologize. I think I confused PATN1 and PATN2 with double varnish alleles being responsible for few spot and snowcap with the separate Varnish pattern.

She's a pretty mare caljane, sorry for diverting your thread.


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