# Backing into reining spin?



## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

I had a reining lesson today, focusing on the reining spin. My instructor asked me to back my horse each time we halted, and asked us to back just before picking up the spin. I did, but was a bit confused since I know the spin is a forward motion: is it customary to back a step before spinning? Her reasoning for backing into the spin was that the horse would step back with the inside leg and make it easier for the outside leg to cross over.

We also did some cutting and she had me back my horse each time we stopped. 

I am unsure about all this backing and don't want my horse getting backing on the brain, so advice from someone experienced in reining or cutting would be much appreciated.
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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

I never back into a turn. It kills the forward motion needed in the turn and will end up causing more problems then it solved. Now I do back into a role back at times but that is a different type of things and should be more of a sweeping motion then a turn.

Go to Youtube and watch some of the top riders and how they cue and ask their horse to turn. What and see that a lot of times especially with a young horse the horse will take as step forward before they start the turn. If you tech the turn correctly there is little problem with them crossing over.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

I have watched quite a few reining vids, and have done research on reining --- that's why I was wondering why the instructor today was so adamant about always backing a step. Thanks for your clarification.


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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Everything is about forward momentum. Even doing some research myself, if you're training a horse to spin and they begin to fall out of the spin, you're supposed to go forward, make them leave the spin, relax, and repeat.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

My trainer does this with me, but it's more of a cutting side of training to back into a turn.
http://www.horseforum.com/reining/pivot-spin-question-96834/


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

As others have said, there needs to be forward momentum. I had it explained to me as a kid with a great analogy - It's like driving a car, if you want to turn you need to use the gas pedal and not the brake.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

:shock: YIKES!

Sounds to me like perhaps your trainer is not just a reining trainer. Perhaps they train ranch/cutting horses also? I don't know, and I am fairly new at this. However, there is one thing I have heard loud and clear. Spinning is a FORWARD movement. No question. In fact some people jog into it. and out of it as their horses learn just for the purpose of instilling this in the horses lil brain.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

She also had us back into rollbacks, but according to the thread Mango linked to (thanks, Mango!), that's okay. Unless there's a difference between the cutting rollback and the reining rollback?

Frank, they do train ranch/cutting horses as well. They show reiners and had a big win 10yrs ago, but since then I don't know how they've been doing in the showring. 
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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

This is the video I watched when I wanted to teach mah pony some reining spins.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

QHRider, thanks for the reining video!


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## bubbleslove (Mar 9, 2010)

Look Larry Trocha on YouTube, he's got some great videos on these sorts of topics. From my brief education in reining, no, you never back up into a spin, as others have said. The only time we did a lot of backing up was to work on the stop, so that we could sharpen it up and get the horse back on its hindquarters.
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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I have seen people who ride cutters back them up. Cutters pivot on the hind outside rather than the inside hind when working cattle. I knew I guy that actually took it one step further by stopping, moving the hip to the outside causing the horse to put his weight onto the outside hind to use this leg as his pivot and then turn him.

When first teaching a spin to a colt I will "back them around" (backing in a reverse arc)to teach them to move his inside rib so he can get that inside front back and out of the way to clear with outside front. If they don't get the inside front out of the way they get strung out in the spin.
But I don't use it to start the spin. I will trot small circles to get that forward momentum then let him walk down into it. And let him out BEFORE he gets hung up or loses that forward motion. This teaches them to keep that forward motion during the spin.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

twh said:


> I am unsure about all this backing and don't want my horse getting backing on the brain, so advice from someone experienced in reining or cutting would be much appreciated.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How well does your horse use it's hind quarters? Backing work is to get the horse onto the hind quarters - working off the hind quarters is necessary for the spin.

I am NOT saying that is the way to teach the spin, I am saying it is to teach the horse to know where the hind quarters are.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

She is working off her HQs when she spins. This trainer seemed to want to back regardless of how the horse used itself. I figure she would have told me if she hadn't liked something the horse was doing.
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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

That's one of my favorite vids for reining spins.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

If you are looking for someone to teach you reining to compete, I'd get a new trainer. Your horse does that in the ring, because she was taught, you will be disqualified. It is always forward for a spin.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

twh said:


> She is working off her HQs when she spins. This trainer seemed to want to back regardless of how the horse used itself. I figure she would have told me if she hadn't liked something the horse was doing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



If you decide to ride with her again, you might want to ask why she is asking you to back into your spins. 
If you are confused about something don't be afraid to ask...that is why you are riding with a trainer in the first place right? To have guidance in training your horse. If you don't understand something ask. Some trainers are good at training horses but not explaining the process to people.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

COWCHICK77 said:


> If you decide to ride with her again, you might want to ask why she is asking you to back into your spins.
> 
> 
> If you don't understand something ask. Some trainers are good at training horses but not explaining the process to people.


Ha! I was going to say that!

True. When I help people, I try to relate to something they know so it's easier to understand. A good instructor should adjust teaching/training methods need to meet the needs of the student.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

mls said:


> Ha! I was going to say that!
> 
> True. When I help people, I try to relate to something they know so it's easier to understand. A good instructor should adjust teaching/training methods need to meet the needs of the student.


LOL! I agree with you completely. 

And finding a trainer that is a good fit for both the horse and rider is like trying to find a good hair stylist....sometimes you have to go through a few of them before you find a good one!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

In my area in Va-hard to find a reining trainer at all! No less have a choice. I have to drive 50 miles.......one way for one. And in NY-even worse. Worth it tho.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

My current area seems rather lacking in reining/cutting trainers, which is amazing since it's in the middle of beef country!

I considered asking her why she was having me back into the spin, but decided to keep my mouth shut.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

twh said:


> My current area seems rather lacking in reining/cutting trainers, which is amazing since it's in the middle of beef country!
> 
> I considered asking her why she was having me back into the spin, but decided to keep my mouth shut.


If you don't mind me asking, where abouts are you?

Well keeping your mouth shut to a point is good, but if you don't understand something or why, ask. There is a difference between being mouthy and and beig inquisitive


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

I asked her. She said it was because it gets the inside front leg back making it easier for the outside leg to cross over. 

Thoughts on this?

ETA: I just realized this was mentioned in the OP.
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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

twh said:


> I asked her. She said it was because it gets the inside front leg back making it easier for the outside leg to cross over.
> 
> Thoughts on this?
> 
> ...



That is true you need the inside leg to move back to clear across with the outside. But like it was said before, backing into the spin causes mores problems. I teach them to move that inside leg back by backing a circle. I will stop pick up the inside rein, lets say the left and tip his nose. Bring the right rein back towards my hip and ask him to take a step back. When he he is soft takes a step, or a few back, depending how long I have been doing this with him, I will use my right leg to ask to step across. At first this very awkward for a colt because don't really know where to place their feet. So even if he falls out of it keep them on a small circle. After doing this for a while they learn that when I pick up that inside rein in that body position that he needs to come back with that leg.(this also teaches them to set the hind inside as the pivot leg) and after asking to back around, then I step him across so he understands the inside comes back, the outside goes across. Then I might teach the cross over a little more by using a reverse arc. For example, I will put him in a small circle to the left, arc his body to the right he is forced to cross over with the front to maintain the circle to the left. Then I put the two together. I trot the horse in a circle to left to get the forward momentum, when he is soft and we are in the mind set, I pick up my inside rein and he will move leg back set his pivot foot and I ask him to come across with my right leg. At first I may only ask for a step or two then I will push him out of it. This reinforces the forward momentum and is a reward for stepping correctly. Let him out before he gets stuck. I hope this makes sense, sometimes I can't explain exactly how I do things..lol


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

There are so many better ways to get the horse to cross over properly. Side passing works very very well. The horse will learn how to move their body properly with out being too bent. Also counter bending with a half halt then a turn and so many other things.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Just a side question: my horse actually does a correct spin at snail's pace. Any suggestions on how to get her to speed up consistently?
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## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Tap her with your heel to the tempo you want her footsteps to be in. Just speed up and repeat your spin cue, but start with one full spin, two, 3.... until you get where you want to be.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks!
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## RookieReiner (Oct 13, 2011)

The only time we back into a spin is when the horse is having a problem bringing his front feet in ( when they are reaching out instead of in and flattening) we will back then quarter turn, back, then quarter turn or we might half pass a circle if the horse is pushing to the outside. but this is what my trainer teaches to more advanced horses to fix smaller problems , he never trains them to spin while backing.


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## twh (Feb 1, 2010)

That sounds like a viable technique, Rookie. Thanks for posting.
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## Stir crazy (Jan 23, 2011)

My guess would be your trainer is having you back in the spin to work on having the inside front to step back instead of out


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## nrhareiner (Jan 11, 2009)

Stir crazy said:


> My guess would be your trainer is having you back in the spin to work on having the inside front to step back instead of out



While that might be the reason there are other ways to get that job done with out adding other problems on top of it.


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