# Getting tossed off.



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I am going to see if I can insert some paragraph breaks in your post. It's undigested in a solid block format like that.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I've been riding the horse on and off for 8 ish months. He spooks almost every ride, but always a small thing and he works through it in a few seconds. Yesterday I got on and everything was going well, then he spooked at a noise my boot made against the stirrup. That sort of started this thing where I couldn't really move my feet without him spooking. I felt stuck, I cant get off because I cant move my feet. So I flex him and let him see my boot an stiff it, I pull my foot out of the stirrup and let him see it, that's when all hell broke loose. He went psycho, its like a switch flipped and he wasn't even the same horse, about 4 bucks into the freak out my tail bone landed right on the cantle of the saddle and the pain totally shocked me and I flew off.

this horse has never exhibited ANY issues about having things flap or make noise against his sides? is he unflappable when you saddle him?  Have you ever tried some desensitization work , with a rope or flags, to investigate his feelings about something along his sides? 

How does he act when you mount up? Is he worried when you walk behind him, (switching from one side to the other, so you are going from one eye to the other)

Does he flinch when you toss a blanket up and over his back


 I landed right on my hip bone and quickly realized I needed to get up before he ran over me because he was still running and bucking and being crazy. I couldn't really walk, so I crawled/limped to the mounting block and sat while he continued and I yelled for some help. I quickly got very scared because I realized how dangerous it was that he was running around the arena with all his tack still on. the last thing I needed to be added to that day was an injured horse. He stopped and I walked up to him, I pulled off the bridle why would you take the bridle off before removing the saddle? once you do that, you have no control over the horse while taking off his saddle. It's saddle on last, off first.

and when I loosened the cinch he went crazy again and the saddle flew off. that is regrettable. that he has learned he can both unseat a rider AND get a saddle off by virtue of bucking . . . . I dragged all the tack out and immediately called my dad. From there I just went home. 

Someone else put the horse away for me because he wouldn't let me near him. He wasn't even the same horse, it wasn't anything I've seen before. My mom told the barn owner what happened, she was worried but was also angry. Angry because I've been around horses long enough and I should "Be used to falling off and being tossed" and how I should "Learn to get back on." 

Here is the deal, I've been tossed of a crap load of times, and fallen off, usually because I made a stupid mistake or wasn't listening to my horse, and I get back on, as long as I can, but there was no way I could have gotten on, My hip, back, and tail bone were all very painful, I wanted to, but knew I couldn't. A horse that reactes insanely, out of the blue, and you think you should get back on? sorry, but no way. All the rest of the day I was blaming myself, I shouldn't have pushed him to sniff my boot, He would have erupted at some other thing, even if you had not brought him back to sniff the boot. I should have just kicked off my shoes and dismounted, all these things I "Should have" done (I hate blaming the horse, its usually not their fault) . a horse that is THAT worried about something on his sides, and is giving you all the signals that he is a ticking time bomb is one to GET OFF OF BEFORE IT EXPLODES. That is not being stupid or cowardly. it's being smart and having a sense of self preservation.

Then my mom tells me, apparently, he has gone mental and turned like this before, and they thought at the time he had a screw loose or it was a stroke or something. Did they tell me they thought that? no. Did they tell me "He hasn't bucked a day in his life and you are totally safe with him" YES. She(barn owner)was mad because no one was in the barn while I was riding, and thought I was being dumb for riding alone. Is there a rule against this?
(I ride my own horses alone all the time) however she hasn't ever set rules regarding that and knows I ride alone sometimes.My mom was mad at her for making up rules on me randomly. My mom thinks she cant be mad at me for breaking a rule that doesn't exist, other people ride alone there too. Also family and friends were just across the driveway maybe 300 ft away. 

So my question is, would you continue to ride this horse? absolutely NOT. absolutely not. Or no? I feel like they hid the truth from me (It certainly wasn't on purpose I know that for sure) They put me on a horse that "Only sometimes" goes mental and didn't tell me. And then got mad because I didn't get back on. I guess everyone is sort of out of sorts and I'm not sure what to do? He doesn't scare me normally, however should he if he goes crazy like this? I'm not sure how to feel about all of this. :???:

My responses in red.
Ask them if they will get on and ride it, for 8 months. becuase the trigger is bound to happen again.


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## bkylem (Sep 21, 2013)

I miss your old photo image Tiny. It was classic.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

After you discovered that the horse is a spooky one ("He spooks almost every ride"), besides that latest episode, have you thought about how to give that horse more confidence without putting your safety at such risk, say with some groundwork? You say you _are_ training a horse - isn't desensitizing part of that training? You ride _your_ horses alone safely - how does that automatically generalize to _any_ horse? 

What was the purpose of letting him sniff your boot? The horse cannot generalize that this is what made the noise, and therefore it is a harmless noise. You need to keep on making the noise! I once rode a greenie who bolted when I reached forward to get a fly off his head, something I do routinely when I ride in summer. I didn't let him sniff my hand...I kept on moving my hand towards his head, only more delicately.

In any case, the boot sniffing should not be the proximate course of the bucking - it sounds like the flexing was, unless something else happened simultaneously. Horses don't buck when they are frightened of something they can get away from, they buck to when they are frightened by something attached to them (like a biting insect). I might conjecture that he experienced pain to some extend and considered you as the cause for it, thus getting you off his back. (Naturally, that's just conjecture - I haven't talked to your horse, nor given him a vet exam.)

As for the owner of the horse - weeelllll, it's probably a mixture of guilt and rationalization. It was her horse that injured you, but if you were at fault, she can sleep better tonight. I'm not feeling any compassion for your injuries here, so don't deal with that woman anymore.


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## Horsef (May 1, 2014)

What is your motivation for wanting to ride this horse again? Unless you are a professional who fixes dangerous horses for a living, I see no need for you to put yourself in danger for someone else’s horse.


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## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

I didn't read the whole thing in detail.... But stop riding the horse. After 8 months of riding him he is still spooking at little things, now he freaked out and piled you. It doesn't sound like you are the rider this horse needs, whether he has a screw loose or not.


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## InexcessiveThings (Oct 22, 2016)

If I were in your position, I would not be continuing to ride this horse. At least not without _lots_ of groundwork and desensitizing _from the ground_, until he is much less spooky. If they really want this horse trained, they should send him to a trainer who can fix danerous horses, or resign themselves to the fact that he'll never be safe. I can see why you would be angry about them not telling you things about the horse, but I also think it's a bit naive to assume that such a jumpy, spooky horse (especially after 8 months working with him) would never do something like this and dump you. Just because a horse may have never done something with someone else doesn't mean they're incapable of it with you. The fact that he "spooks every ride" like you said should be a huge red flag and an indicator of potential for explosive behavior like this.

While I don't think all blame should be placed on you, I also have a hard time mustering sympathy here, because this sounds like it was very preventable, _regardless_ of what the owners did or didn't tell you.


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

> He just isn't very confident in himself and needs a lot of reassurance....
> I've been riding the horse on and off for 8 ish months. He spooks almost every ride,... spooked at a noise my boot made against the stirrup.


Sounds like the horse has 'holes' in his training to me, or maybe pain or prev. trauma. Maybe even just serious nutritional imbal. I've personally experienced 'inexplicably psycho' horses who changed & relaxed heaps when magnesium was added or potassium was cut right back or countered with other mins. 



> Angry because I've been around horses long enough and I should "Be used to falling off and being tossed" and how I should "Learn to get back on."


Seriously?? That's pretty ridiculous & totally unfair. 



> Then my mom tells me, apparently, he has gone mental and turned like this before,


If it was truly 'out of the blue' that's one thing but that he's always been 'spooky' make me think it more likely when he was 'good' was just because he was only just holding himself together, maybe 'shut down' mentally, despite his fear... Like a time bomb, that he 'goes off' when he just can't stand any more. 


> Did they tell me they thought that? no. Did they tell me "He hasn't bucked a day in his life and you are totally safe with him" YES. She(barn owner)was mad because no one was in the barn while I was riding


If she blatantly lied to you about the horse, if she knew his history, & purposefully didn't tell you, IF she's generally more reasonable than it sounds here, I'd guess she was mad & ashamed at *herself* for being an irresponsible idiot & covering by taking it out on you irrationally. 



> would you continue to ride this horse? Or no? I feel like they hid the truth from me (It certainly wasn't on purpose


Not on purpose? But you said the told you the horse had never bucked... No I *definitely* wouldn't get back on the horse, at least until his problems had been discovered & worked out fully. Sounds like Russian roulette suicide to do so!


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

No, I would not suggest you riding this horse again. It doesn't appear to me like you did anything wrong. The owner is being unreasonable. I am siding with your mom on this one!


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

Now ive read replies...


InexcessiveThings said:


> I also have a hard time mustering sympathy here, because this sounds like it was very preventable, _regardless_ of what the owners did or didn't tell you.


I too agree there were plenty of missed signs, that this was not at all out of the blue - just a more extreme reaction after a build up of stress. 

I do however feel great sympathy for OP(& the horse) & don't blame her for what she obviously just did not realise. If she had no one to teach her better, how is she to learn but for trial & error?? Lucky she wasn't badly hurt. 

And I've seen all too much of the attitude of 'programming' young people to 'just ride thru it' & 'make the horse' do whatever & don't 'let him get away with it', promoting confrontations & lack of awareness or consideration for what the horse is communicating & 'no matter what you get back on the horse',... to blame OP for thinking she should maybe keep riding.

Learn to listen to the horse more & to trust your instincts more OP. ;-)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

InexcessiveThings said:


> If I were in your position, I would not be continuing to ride this horse. At least not without _lots_ of groundwork and desensitizing _from the ground_, until he is much less spooky. If they really want this horse trained, they should send him to a trainer who can fix danerous horses, or resign themselves to the fact that he'll never be safe. I can see why you would be angry about them not telling you things about the horse, but I also think it's a bit naive to assume that such a jumpy, spooky horse (especially after 8 months working with him) would never do something like this and dump you. Just because a horse may have never done something with someone else doesn't mean they're incapable of it with you. The fact that he "spooks every ride" like you said should be a huge red flag and an indicator of potential for explosive behavior like this.
> 
> Wh*ile I don't think all blame should be placed on you, I also have a hard time mustering sympathy here, because this sounds like it was very preventable, regardless of what the owners did or didn't tell you.*





I'm wondering how you think she should have/could have prevented this? She did not know this horse had a big problem. No one mentioned this propensity to randomly and rarely explode. She had not seen it demonstrated before. Sure, the hrose may have given off signs that there was this huge hole in his training, but only an experienced, observant horseperson might see them this. Many people are not aware of what they are seeing when a horse is telling us that something troubles him.
I have plenty of sympathy for the OP. She has had a hard lesson, a hard way. whatever the horse's issues, they were not put into that horse by the OP, but rather by some other human, further back in his life.


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## horseluvr2524 (Sep 17, 2013)

It sounds to me like you are a minor. You have a lot to learn still. We all are always learning with horses, no one knows everything, but there is a point you will come to when you are ready to deal with horses like this one. Now is not that time.

The owner could be facing some serious liability issues allowing a minor to ride her horse. That could be why she is lashing out at you without compassion or regard. I don't believe for a second that she didn't know this horse had some issues. She had no business allowing you to ride this horse. You had no business on this horse, but I'm not really blaming you here. I remember being young and foolhardy and more than ready to climb on anything I had permission to. It is up to the adults and horse owners to say no and use better judgement instead of trying to get free exercise and training out of teens/minors who don't know any better.

It is one thing to train a young horse (aka blank slate), and quite another to fix the serious training issues, vices, and problems of an older horse, ESPECIALLY when it is someone else's horse.

Do not get back on this horse. You will only make things worse for yourself, and the horse. It sounds to me like this horse needs a serious trainer if anyone is going to ride it, or otherwise just turn him out and let him have retirement. Do not even work this horse on the ground. You have three different horses of your own that need exercise and attention. Focus on them. Don't take on other people's problems.

That was a hard lesson you endured. I hope it was well learned.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Life is short, and you have many other horses to ride!

I'm at a point where, personally, I have zero interest in riding anything with the potential to explode. (Standard disclaimer: yes, I know, they can all -- theoretically -- explode.)

A pony I was working with last year blew up without provocation and threw herself -- and me -- on the ground, twice in a row, right after I mounted. In the process she clocked me so hard in the face that I had a black eye, and would have had a broken nose, or worse, if she'd hit me an inch to the left. Two weeks later she spontaneously bolted while being led around with her owner's daughter on her back. She had never done anything like these things before (that I was aware of, but who really knows) and all my work (which had included careful and thorough desensitization) with her had been very positive up to that point.

Was it because of holes in her training? Does she have a neurological problem that just randomly goes BOOM? (I'm leaning toward the latter because she's normally unflappable but has violently spooked at her own water bucket, and once at the sight of the barn. You know, where she LIVES.)

I had the option to continue to ride her for free, and I was enjoying working with her up to that point, and it HAD been going well. But I went....... NOPE. Not my circus and not my monkey.

Continue to ride the horses you ENJOY riding, and don't let someone try to make you feel like less of a horse person for walking away from this one. That's crap. I would NEVER ride that horse again, personally. Falls happen, but it is NOT "normal" to be violently thrown.


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## Abstang2002 (Feb 16, 2017)

tinyliny said:


> I am going to see if I can insert some paragraph breaks in your post. It's undigested in a solid block format like that.


Sorry I typed it out on my computer, it might have messed it up, the page didn’t load quite right. Thank you!!! I can fix it if editing is an option, I don’t know though, I’ve never tried to edit.


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## Abstang2002 (Feb 16, 2017)

tinyliny said:


> I've been riding the horse on and off for 8 ish months. He spooks almost every ride, but always a small thing and he works through it in a few seconds. Yesterday I got on and everything was going well, then he spooked at a noise my boot made against the stirrup. That sort of started this thing where I couldn't really move my feet without him spooking. I felt stuck, I cant get off because I cant move my feet. So I flex him and let him see my boot an stiff it, I pull my foot out of the stirrup and let him see it, that's when all hell broke loose. He went psycho, its like a switch flipped and he wasn't even the same horse, about 4 bucks into the freak out my tail bone landed right on the cantle of the saddle and the pain totally shocked me and I flew off.
> 
> this horse has never exhibited ANY issues about having things flap or make noise against his sides? is he unflappable when you saddle him?  Have you ever tried some desensitization work , with a rope or flags, to investigate his feelings about something along his sides?
> 
> ...


No, he is spooky sometimes at loud noises but never had an issue with his sides. When/If I lunge him I always use a flag whip and he never had had an issue with it. I was unaware that he explodes or does this. According to the owner, it might have had nothing to do with my boot and might have been some sort of episode. I’m totally at a loss for what happened. Thank you for your advice I hope this answered some of your questions.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

have you ever lunged him, with a rope tied to his stirrup? this way you have one rope on his halter, lunging him, and another on the stirrup. you get him going, then use the stirrup rope to experiment with 'flapping' the stirrup against his side a bit.


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## SteadyOn (Mar 5, 2017)

Abstang2002 said:


> No, he is spooky sometimes at loud noises but never had an issue with his sides. When/If I lunge him I always use a flag whip and he never had had an issue with it. I was unaware that he explodes or does this. According to the owner, it might have had nothing to do with my boot and might have been some sort of episode. I’m totally at a loss for what happened. Thank you for your advice I hope this answered some of your questions.


Some "random" explosions happen in horses who are prone to having anxiety, but they manage it... for a while... until they very suddenly can't. If he's a bit jumpy and spooky on the regular, then it may be that he had one (or seven) too many little anxieties happening under the surface, and you taking your boot out of the stirrup wasn't the specific problem -- it was just the last tiny thing that put him over the edge.

I know I post a lot of Warwick Schiller stuff, but I find his explanations and analogies so helpful. It sounds like this horse has a lot of "rabbits," and that perhaps, that day, he just had TOO MANY rabbits.







...But I stand by my earlier stance, and I still wouldn't ride him if I were you. :sad:


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## Abstang2002 (Feb 16, 2017)

mmshiro said:


> After you discovered that the horse is a spooky one ("He spooks almost every ride"), besides that latest episode, have you thought about how to give that horse more confidence without putting your safety at such risk, say with some groundwork? You say you _are_ training a horse - isn't desensitizing part of that training? You ride _your_ horses alone safely - how does that automatically generalize to _any_ horse?
> 
> What was the purpose of letting him sniff your boot? The horse cannot generalize that this is what made the noise, and therefore it is a harmless noise. You need to keep on making the noise! I once rode a greenie who bolted when I reached forward to get a fly off his head, something I do routinely when I ride in summer. I didn't let him sniff my hand...I kept on moving my hand towards his head, only more delicately.
> 
> ...



Yes, I do groundwork, yes, we do desensitization/desensitizing. The point of riding my own horses safely wasn’t to reflect on mum abilities, that was to make a different point about the barn rules. Maybe it was a “You had to be there” situation. He certainly was very aware it was my boot, because as I said, I couldn’t even move either of my feet without him spooking. It appeared it was the feeling or him seeing the boots at his sides, although as I said to someone else, he never had had an issue with his sides. The flexing is an ground excerise I use on all my horses, it makes them give to pressure and stop what they are doing. It’s hard to explain. I’m not looking for sympathy. I was explaining the reason I didn’t mount again. It’s obviously very hard to see the situation through story form. I’m sorry about that. Thank you for your advice though.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

I'm with @SteadyOn. It sounds to me like the anxiety in this horse has been building for some time. A lot of people here will be tired of hearing this story, but almost two years ago, I bought a mare that was supposed to be bombproof and beginner-safe. They had these videos showing her doing all sorts of things. She looked really good, but in reality, she had just shut down because the alternative was worse. She blew up and threw me a couple of times in the first two weeks, but I chalked it up to her being new to us. Then she began spooking very badly, until one day, she lost it on a trail ride at something that should not have been a big deal and I got a concussion. She also began pulling back whenever she was tied, and nearly broke my wrist when she ripped out a board. 

I'll be honest, all of that terrified me, and I'm an adult who has been around horses a fair bit (though not as much as many people here for sure, but I had horses as a kid and teen). A lot of people just told me to sell her, but after a lot of soul-searching, I decided to keep her and re-start her training completely, as if she had never been broken. She had so many holes in her training, that was the only way. She's a different horse now, but we're not finished, so I can't say that I "fixed" everything yet. 

This is not your horse. You are not responsible for "fixing" this horse. You're young, and still learning. I don't see how you could have done things differently. You were in a bind, and were still able to think rationally. It didn't end well, but these situations rarely do. I don't think you did anything wrong, and I think the BO is just trying to avoid any liability. Don't ride this horse anymore. 

Yes, it's good to get back on, but there ARE situations when that's just not an option. When I was laying on the ground with a concussion, and couldn't remember anything, the solution wasn't to just "get back on". 

No one can say exactly what triggered this episode in this horse, but it seems to be happening more frequently, which tends to support the idea that it's been building up. It isn't your responsibility. Ride a different horse.


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## mmshiro (May 3, 2017)

Abstang2002 said:


> I’m not looking for sympathy. I was explaining the reason I didn’t mount again.


Oh, I know - I was saying that I didn't see much sympathy on the part of the horse owner, therefore advised you not to interact too closely with her in the future.

In any case, I reiterate that the horse cannot make the connection: "boot is safe (because I sniffed it) --> it was that boot boot that made the noise --> since I know the boot is safe, I know the noise poses no harm". That is a chain of deduction that a horse cannot make, under no circumstance, as it requires abstraction.

You also didn't say how much, and what, groundwork or desensitization work you did with the horse that "spooks every ride". I mean, putting miles on a horse is one way to desensitize, but then it would be better to ride out with a buddy - safer for you and reassuring for the horse.


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## Acadianartist (Apr 21, 2015)

P.S. LOVE the rabbits!!! I am totally going to work on helping Kodak "empty her rabbits"! Thanks @SteadyOn


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## InexcessiveThings (Oct 22, 2016)

tinyliny said:


> I'm wondering how you think she should have/could have prevented this? She did not know this horse had a big problem. No one mentioned this propensity to randomly and rarely explode. She had not seen it demonstrated before. Sure, the hrose may have given off signs that there was this huge hole in his training, but only an experienced, observant horseperson might see them this. Many people are not aware of what they are seeing when a horse is telling us that something troubles him.
> I have plenty of sympathy for the OP. She has had a hard lesson, a hard way. whatever the horse's issues, they were not put into that horse by the OP, but rather by some other human, further back in his life.


I realize I may have come off as a little crass, for which I apologize. I by no means meant to imply that the OP should have been able to stop the horse exploding in some way, shape or form. If a horse is going to explode, they will, and you either ride through it or get thrown, in my experience. I simply meant, as you have pointed out here, that it seems there were a lot of warning signs that this sort of thing could happen or may have in the past. Even if the OP didn't see them, you'd think that someone else who was aware of this or _could_ see it would have said something. Obviously they didn't, but, you know, people are flakes. 

I certainly agree that it was rather unfair to the OP for this horse's owner to have neglected to tell her. I also wasn't saying that the horse's problems were created by her either. That was not my impression at all. My thoughts are that this whole incident may have been preventable had there been better communication between all parties and full disclosure on part of the owner/mother, other people, etc. much as others have already posted about. He just sounds like he wasn't exactly safe to begin with which I thought to be fairly obvious from the OP's descriptions of this horse prior to this incident. I guess that's maybe a difference in experience coming through... like you said. 



mmshiro said:


> Oh, I know - I was saying that I didn't see much sympathy on the part of the horse owner, therefore advised you not to interact too closely with her in the future.
> 
> In any case, I reiterate that the horse cannot make the connection: "boot is safe (because I sniffed it) --> it was that boot boot that made the noise --> since I know the boot is safe, I know the noise poses no harm". That is a chain of deduction that a horse cannot make, under no circumstance, as it requires abstraction.
> 
> You also didn't say how much, and what, groundwork or desensitization work you did with the horse that "spooks every ride". I mean, putting miles on a horse is one way to desensitize, but then it would be better to ride out with a buddy - safer for you and reassuring for the horse.


Totally agree with this! My favorite method for desensitizing is generally to just puts lots of miles on the horse so they get to see all sorts of things repeatedly. Going out with a calm, non-spooky buddy is great exposure as well and will generally help keep the wild/spooky horse a lot quieter and under control. Granted, this won't work for every horse, but they are herd animals, so what one does, the other will be inclined to as well.


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## Light (Mar 4, 2012)

I didn't have time to read the replies. 

Allot of the horses that I have seen who have suddenly "freaked out" had pain. Be it a bee sting or a very sore back or neck. It was almost always pain. 

I don't think a horse could be really "psyco". I think they learn different things to react to. You have no way of knowing what it was that set him off. I am sure there was something. The problem is that when he started to freak out, he was not able to trust you to keep him safe. Not your fault. You just aren't able to work with him at the level where he will trust you. 

My 24 almost 25 year old horse freaked out when I hand walked her through a gate into an arena today. She jumped and popped up on the end of the line and through her head around like a nut case. Bobble headed Llama on crack. I had to have my trainer friend come over and walk her through the stupid gate. She did fine with my trainer friend and was an idiot with me. Why? Because although I take care of the horse and love the horse, when it comes right down to it she trusts her safety more with my trainer friend. And that tells me that I have gate anxiety, not my horse. 

So, when what ever happened that caused the horse to react that way or start to react that way, he did not trust that you would protect him. So, probably your energy came up, as mine did with the gate today. I am sure your heart rate increased and you were nervous. All totally understandable. But these horses can read such subtle signs that there is no way you could have hidden your fear or anxiety from him. 

I think it takes a long time to learn how to keep your emotions, anxiety, etc. in check when put into every frightening situation on a horse. At least it has taken forever for me and I still obviously can't walk my horse through a gate. 

This is not your fault. You have not done anything "wrong". You didn't know. Now you do. So, if you ride the horse again without a qualified trainer helping you, it will be your fault. You are not doing the horse any favors and you could be seriously hurt as I am sure you already know. 

I am sure the barn owner was terrified you could have been hurt badly and reacted the way she did out of fear. As for them not telling you about his personality, let it go. Don't ride the horse again, but don't hold a grudge. Just remember and learn from the experience. I am sorry you got hurt. I do feel bad for the horse too.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@lightning. 
Once you've been 'squished' by a horse rushing through a gate, you will become anxious about it. I rode a gate nervous horse, who squished my belly hard into the gate post, like rib crushing hard!

I have since learned to either send a horse ahead of me through a gate, or make them wait until I go through, then allow them to follow me. two of us through the narrow space at the same time is inviting injury.


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## JoBlueQuarter (Jan 20, 2017)

tinyliny said:


> @lightning.
> Once you've been 'squished' by a horse rushing through a gate, you will become anxious about it. I rode a gate nervous horse, who squished my belly hard into the gate post, like rib crushing hard!
> 
> I have since learned to either send a horse ahead of me through a gate, or make them wait until I go through, then allow them to follow me. two of us through the narrow space at the same time is inviting injury.


I'm always anxious with gates, but I've never been seriously hurt by it. _Almost_ squished like a little bug, yeah, and my nervous mare Blue has on occasion freaked herself out by managing to close the gate while moving through *facepalm*


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## Loner (Dec 21, 2017)

I would not ride him again.The chemistry is not right.Next time you could get hurt bad.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

First thing, I totally agree with Tiny that you should have taken the saddle off and then the bridle! 

Secondly, I would have left the tack on him amd made him move around until he had stopped freaking, I wouldn't care of things were flapping or if he snapped the reins, tough on him. 

As for riding him again only you and your mother can decided. 

Horses that freak like this are in need of extreme sacking out. Forget the flags and normal desensitising, do as Tiny said, put a rope on the stirrup and flap that. Get two buckets put several fist sized stones in them cover with cling film and tie that to the saddle so it A) flaps, B) rattles. You can adjust the height of the buckets and when they are hanging low, below his belly and he is taking no notice, then younare getting somewhere. 

I use long reins on horses like this, to the bit. I will have the stirrups tied down and the reins going through the irons, I will have the outside rein going over his hocks but as he goes so I will also get it between his back legs up under his tail, under his belly and over his back so it slips under the saddle. 

They will freak and it takes experience to be able to do this. I let them freak, I just keep them going forward they soon run out of puff and accept where the line is only to freak again when you move it. 

A friend had a very special pony for her daughter to do dressage on. He was a 'freaker' and would explode especially when being mounted. A rider always had to be legged up on him anything else he exploded. 

I went to leg her up, he was wary of me, a stranger, and we messed up, I had been in racing so you lifted as soon as the hand hit the leg, she was waiting for one two three. Pony freaked and she came off. She was kicked in a sensitive part. Pony freaked around the arena, she went to put ice on her kick. I left pony freaking and got two long lines. Pony was stood tenslely when I returned (only a couple of minutes later) I put two lines on him and he was off again freaking - he could have been a bucking horse! 

When owner returned I was lunging him with the two lines. I had one between his back legs and owner asked if she should put it right. I said not and allowed him to step out of it later only to bring it over his back under the saddle. 

He very soon stopped freaking, partly because he was tired, partly because he realised it got him nowhere. 
Friend mounted him with a correct leg up. 

Weeks later he came to me whilst they were on holiday. He was better than he had been when I first met him. When he went home he could be mounted, a rider could do a back flip off him and certainly he could be mounted from the ground. 

This pony went on the represent GB in junior dressage, was a medal winner and sold for enough money to but a top range car. 

Just as a thought this horse could well be jammed in the SI area and a nerve pinch him every now and then.


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## findinghappy (Feb 24, 2018)

Abstang2002 said:


> One of the horses is this great gelding, he never gets ridden and no one really likes him, except me.
> 
> I landed right on my hip bone and quickly realized I needed to get up before he ran over me because he was still running and bucking and being crazy.
> 
> ...



First thing, I'm relieved and I bet you are too that you are not severely injured!! You had a close call and are lucky this situation was not a lot worse for you than it was. I'm glad you're safe. 

You mentioned that this gelding is really great and you get to ride him, but in the same sentence you also say that no one else likes him at that barn. I was wondering if perhaps the other people knew of his more violent nature or saw the warning signs and that is why no one else seems to like this really great gelding??

As far as him turning mental, I was thinking maybe it could have been something poking him from your boot or under the flaps that caused more of an instant pain response. The entire scenario reminds me of watching a rider get thrown after the horse had been stung by hornets and the following bucking frenzy. It could be the pent up anxiety problem that's been mentioned before as well, but I wouldn't rule out pain. 

As far as riding him again, that is up to you, but I personally wouldn't. You have other horses to work on, enjoy, ride and train. The owner may not even allow you to after this incident, and also why take the risk right now. Just in case, it's better to be safe until he gets more evaluated, so no, I wouldn't ride him again. Not any time soon anyways. I hope you feel better soon.


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

Abstang2002 said:


> One of the horses is this great gelding, he never gets ridden and no one really likes him, except me.
> 
> He spooks almost every ride, but always a small thing and he works through it in a few seconds.
> 
> ...


I think your last statement above sums it up nicely. Personally, I would NOT get on that horse again.

There is a world of difference between a horse that spooks and works through it and a horse that switches off mentally and turns into a bronc. Even if the horse's issue(s) can be fixed, is it worth it to you to attempt such a thing on a horse that is not even yours? And I won't even get into the totally inappropriate response of the owner to the incident..


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## pennywise (Feb 1, 2016)

You probably signed a release form to ride him, right? From my point of view, if I'm going to risk injury from riding, it's going to be from my own horse and not the horse of someone who isn't taking enough measures to work with their animal. I don't know how much training experience you have, but if this horse is acting like this, it kind of suggests that this shouldn't be a horse who is just a "ride whenever you want" to friendly boarders at the barn. If I was the owner, I really wouldn't want anyone getting on him if there's that kind of risk involved and if you aren't being hired to help this horse, you're putting yourself in danger for time that should be leisure--it should be enjoyable and safe riding if you aren't getting paid to do it. The barn owner getting mad at you for riding alone is ridiculous unless she already pegged this horse to be too dangerous to ride without supervision, in which case, why not say something to you during those 8 months before anything like this even happened? That's what I would ask her, but I don't think it's worth pursuing. His owners are responsible for his progress and they're also responsible for knowing him well before even thinking about letting someone else get on him. To me that's incredibly irresponsible and shows a basic lack of care about the possibility that their horse could have seriously injured or killed you. Are they too lazy to work with him themselves or are they too busy? Do they work with him at all or is it left to you to exercise him??


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## loosie (Jun 19, 2008)

pennywise said:


> You probably signed a release form to ride him, right? ... I don't know how much training experience you have, but if this horse is acting like this, it kind of suggests that this shouldn't be a horse who is just a "ride whenever you want" to friendly boarders at the barn.


Unless OP is a trainer employed to 'fix' him - & even then, without full disclosure of KNOWN problems like this - any 'release' or indemnity form is not going to hold water anyway. The owner &/or BO having known better and not informing you of it are therefore fully liable for any injury or damage he may cause.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

So many times I have horses like this come to me - ones that haven't been ridden regularly for a while _because_ the owner hasn't time or some other fictional reason. Truth is that the horse has frightened to bejeezers out of them for some reason or another. You might get an iota of the truth in them saying, "Well, last time he was ridden he did a couple of bucks." Very rarely do you get the truth of, "He will be fine and then suddenly freak out." 

I used a chiropractor who worked in a very different way and she was always called in to go through the horse in minute detail. Most times there was something wrong which caused the reaction. Didn't mean that even after treatment it wouldn't have a go again because it had usually become a habit but they were curable. 

As for not riding the horse again, I know I would look at it as a challenge.


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## Janet Cherry (Jul 13, 2009)

I feel it is really irresponsible of the horse's owner and the stable manager not to disclose to you that the horse has a problem. A horse that freaks out like that definitely has a problem and is not safe to ride. If you really like the horse, and really want to work with him, then my only thought would be that you spend as much time as possible with him doing gentle handling and building trust...you know the natural horsemanship 'touching all over' tests etc.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I'm failing to see why you_ would_ ride him again (barring @Foxhunter 's reasoning) : you have several of your own horses that you have access to, and you're obviously shaken up by the experience.

I don't think it's something I'd pursue in your situation, at least not without having the horse checked by a vet, first. If it's something pain related, continuing to work with him isn't fair to either party.


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

I see a huge problem with barn drama here. 
Considering the responses of the BO, it appears that any issue is going to be laid at your feet. If you like where you are, where it feels like family and all, stay off that horse. Sounds like the BO and horse owner are already on one side and it isn't yours. Actually, I would not get on that horse again for any reason. That horse really should be either handled by a pro or left to retirement...or whatever.
Enjoy your own horses, stay safe, remain on friendly terms with the management, and mark it all up as a learning experience.
Good luck to you, Kiddo!


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