# Now THIS is a halter QH I like...



## wild_spot

I forgot to add - He is also Impressive bred - Proof that that line can produce really nice, functional horses that aren't as muscle bound as Arny and - Even better - he is HYPP N/N!


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## Eliz

He looks sort of funky to me, maybe because he seems short-bodied? I'm not sure what it is yet...


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## Thatgirlsacowboy

I want to bite his butt... 

^ I agree Eliz... His neck bugs me.


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## wild_spot

Lol, may well be it, I love a short bodied horse - Makes it easier for them to be agile enough to stick with a cow :]


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## Deerly

I normally don't like the look of halter horses but I don't like this one either :lol: He looks very strangely proportioned.

Like they took a big stocky quarter horse body and stuck it on really long legs, attached an arabian neck and a little face.

It also sorta looks like someone took a picture of a horse, resized the legs to be longer and the head/neck to be smaller and stuck it on the body :lol:

Clearly my playful criticisms mean nothing because the horse is successful and I don't mean any negativity behind them, I really don't! I love the coloring and those big even socks (that's my FAVORITE horse marking ever) but his overall build just looks strange to me.


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## Deerly

I do really like their other stallion though! He seems better proportioned somehow.


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## smrobs

His back legs are a little too straight and I would love to see some more bone on him (but I want more bone on nearly everything LOL. Too many years of drafts and mustangs ). Other than that, I really like him. He looks functional and athletic as opposed to bulky and stiff. I am with you on the short bodies. Makes them super quick (not a good thing if they decide to buck though LOL). I wish we stupid Americans would take a page out of ya'lls book. I honestly think that our halter horses should have the same appearance as a good cutting or reining horse. Short-ish, stocky (but not grotesquely body builder), and athletic. I wish I could remember the horse's name but somebody posted a picture of a black and white paint a long time ago that was supposed to have the perfect conformation. And boy howdy, he did. I could literally not find a single thing wrong with that boy.


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## wild_spot

Lol! I guess my taste is very different to everyone elses!

See, I don't mind that horse, but I really don't like that 'butt shape' that a lot of halter QH have. It makes the butt look seperate to the leg - Like they just sat the butt on top of the leg instead of them being joined. It also reminds me of a leg of ham, lol. I really like his neck, though.


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## JumperStride

I'd snap that guy up in a heartbeat, whole heartedly agreeing with you wild_spot! I'd like to see a bit more of a neck on him, I'll admit thats a bit funky but overall I lovelovelove this stallion


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## wild_spot

ok, now i'm on a mission to find a halter horse I like and you guys don't think is weird, lol...


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## smrobs

I absolutely adore this horse, though I can't find any good confo shots of him.









I bet the main problem with the neck on yours is that he is only a 3 year old this year and he could use some riding instead of bulking up for halter.


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## wild_spot

Ok, I found one, but he's not a halter horse - Lol! I think he is a reiner and challenge horse. love his build though:


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## Azale1

Very nice horses.


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## smrobs

Hey, mine's a cutter but then again, that is what a halter horse should look like. They are supposed to showcase the finest points of the breed and the breed is a performance breed so why shouldn't the halter horses also be performance horses?


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## smrobs

But OH, NO. They have to breed crap like this









Or this..................Which is HYPP N/H by the way.


















Does anyone else find that absolutely hideous?


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## wild_spot

Exactly.

I think my problem is I compare all the QH I see to ASH's now, lol!


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## wild_spot

OMG. Those poor horses.


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## Deerly

smrobs said:


> Does anyone else find that absolutely hideous?


OH MY GOD! That is horrifying!!! It looks like a very unhealthy human booty stuffed full of cottage cheese!

That poor white horse just doesn't look healthy to me. So uncomfortable under all that very unnatural looking bulk! 

The first one is very strangely shaped, is it a victim of steroids? It's so strange!


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## Deerly

wild_spot said:


> Ok, I found one, but he's not a halter horse - Lol! I think he is a reiner and challenge horse. love his build though:


I like this horse a LOT! He's muscular but practical and fit looking, like an athlete not a mutant!


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## smrobs

I can't really decide what is wrong with the chestnut. The buck knees are obvious but I can't figure out if it is colicing or if it just has a very straight spine.


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## inaclick

I must admit I was surprised ( but in a pleasant way) of his leaninless (is this a word in English? :-|) as well.

His neck and legs (which are beautiful) look like Hanoverian almost 

As for the negative example pictures, those horses show exactly what no brains and a lot of determination lead to.


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## draftrider

The first one... his head is too small, neck thin and short, great shoulder, spring of rib is good, love his bum. His legs are too long and his hooves too small. Yes he is short coupled which I like, but with those long legs he is going to be forging himself constantly.

The white horse... OMFG. He looks like a Belgian Blue bull. Ever seen those?




















Now really, is that attractive? 

And is it any wonder that Quarter horses are the number one horse slaughtered in North America? Why not, if they freaking look like a BEEF.

Ugh. I'm sorry but this kind of breeding is just wrong. I sincerely hope those photos were photoshopped.


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## smrobs

Nope, no photoshop there. I watched a vid of those bulls on youtube and they look exactly like that. As far as the cattle go, I am all for double the meat so long as it doesn't actually hurt them to carry it around. More beef per head, that's just practical. But those horses are unusable.

Although I will say that the first pic of a bull literally looks like he's been on steroids. Great big muscles and little bitty balls LOL.


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## draftrider

Oh I know, his balls are teeny aren't they? 

The thing is, a beef has heavy heavy bones. They can carry extra muscling. A light horse cannot. Those "halter" horses have as much muscling on them as some drafts! Drafts have super heavy bone and could handle the extra weight.


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## AQHA13

I won't admit that..... I have a secret love for Belgian blues... and occasionally a halter Quarter horse, such as _Patch the Buck_.  I adore the muscles(for whatever reason, don't ask me why! because i don't really know) but the legs and movement are a turn off to me.

Through searching I ran across a ranch website that has decent stallion.

One of the *nicer* horses IMO is their stallion. He's N/N, 16hh, has competed/shown in halter and done well, but he also was shown in Trail, Hunter Under Saddle and Western Pleasure!


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## smrobs

He looks a little gross, under saddle especially, but at least he is sound for riding, unlike so many of his counterparts.

I wonder if they had to get a saddle made with draft horse bars to fit him. I know that my FQHB saddle is nearly too narrow for my Dad's QH Pokey and ^^that horse is much wider and bulkier than him.


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## draftrider

No, he isn't a good using horse, but he is much more reasonable in his conformation than the other "halter" horses.


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## AQHA13

No, I agree with you guys. He isn't great but, he is better than this;










or this










or hundreds upon thousands of other halter bred quarter horses out there.


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## draftrider

When someone says quarter horse... this is what I believe is breed standard.

Smokey Bueno MKE


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## AQHA13

Mmm, he's beautiful!


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## mliponoga

I agree! The last Grullo stallion posted is gorgeous. Definitely wouldn't mind breeding my grulla mare to a stallion like that.


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## draftrider

Well he is standing at stud for a VERY reasonable stud fee ladies and gents!


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## Citrus

What are the diseases HERDA and MH and PSSM?


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## Tennessee

I like big butts and I cannot lie. 

I'm going to be the odd ball out and say that I like a little bit of the beefed up look.


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## farmpony84

There is no longer a "standard" when it comes to quarter horses. THIS is what was originally thought to be "the perfect quarter horse". This actually isn't even a real horse, it's an Orren Mixers depiction of the perfect quarter horse.

Orren Mixer "The American Quarter Horse" Print 1968#


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## mliponoga

Tenessee, I have to agree, that's what I'm hoping to get my mare to eventually look like. 

She's got a long way to go, but she's muscling well....


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## QHDragon

He has some of the better movement and legs that I have seen on the modern halter horse. Some of them have such straight back legs that riding them would be like riding a pogo stick. 

I also like that he isn't crazy muscle bound like a lot of them are. 

It also makes me happy that all of the stallions at that farm are HYPP n/n!!


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## QHDragon

smrobs said:


> Or this..................Which is HYPP N/H by the way.
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That is gross. He looks deformed and not happy.


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## sorelhorse

i absolutely love this horse in the very first post! you guys that are saying you dont like his neck...etc, you have to remember thats the style. they shoot for the teeeny necks and feet and ears...etc. but overall, i would have to say this horse has very goos confo, and would do well in a halter class.
halter nowadays, from my point of veiw, is a bit more judged on beef.
lets say you have a very big horse with pretty good confo and a smaller horse with great confo, more than likely the bigger horse will win. but when it gets into higher levels of showing, you dont see that. its either judged on confo and build, or politics.


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## Icyred

I LOVE the horse in the first original post! Looks like he could be a great dressage horse possibly.


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## mliponoga

AQHA13 said:


> [/IMG]


That's the perfect horse in my eyes conformation and build wise...


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## MacabreMikolaj

Icyred said:


> I LOVE the horse in the first original post! Looks like he could be a great dressage horse possibly.


Agreed. Which is exactly WHY I think people don't like him - I personally think he's gorgeous as a horse, but he DOES look a little bit more like a Warmblood. So if someone really loves QH's, they're not going to like him because he doesn't even look like the QH's we're used to seeing.

I absolutely detest 99% of halter horses. In just about any breed. The idea to me that you could have a horse that's a representation of the breed and yet useless as a performance horse is just mind boggling to me. Breeding non-functional animals is the height of human arrogance and absurdity. I like NATURAL muscle:

Everytime I see a pic of Sir Cool Skip, I want to barf. He is HYPP N/H and just a gross representation of EVERYTHING that's wrong with any idiot who'd ever breed a HYPP horse.




























In the nicest way possible, thank god he's dead. He died this year at the age of 17 - any bets on HYPP complications?


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## Tennessee

Icyred said:


> Looks like he could be a great dressage horse possibly.


I know. =/ 

He doesn't even look like a QH. 


Probably why I don't like him.


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## ridesapaintedpony

smrobs said:


> But OH, NO. They have to breed crap like this
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*stunned and blinking at her screen*

Oh my! This leaves me speechless which is prolly a good thing.


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## Icyred

Tennessee said:


> I know. =/
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Idk I like the fact that he's more of an "english" type almost than your typical "western" style quarter horse. I think this kind of breeding is what can help keep the quarter horses so popular. You can get a quarter horse to your liking, whether that means a reiner, halter horse, pleasure horse or dressage prospect and it makes them even more appealing to a greater audience. A quarter horse like that would give dressage enthusiasts even more reason to look at possibly getting a quarter horse instead of just warmbloods and thoroughbreds. I don't know where I'm really going with this but yeah...I like him. XD


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## ridesapaintedpony

Personally, I love my FQH mare. I need to get a side shot of her.










I do like the looks of the grulla stallion.


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## GreyRay

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Agreed. Which is exactly WHY I think people don't like him - I personally think he's gorgeous as a horse, but he DOES look a little bit more like a Warmblood. So if someone really loves QH's, they're not going to like him because he doesn't even look like the QH's we're used to seeing.
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> In the nicest way possible, thank god he's dead. He died this year at the age of 17 - any bets on HYPP complications?


Good GOSH, WHAT is that thing? Its like the creapy looking Hulk of the equine world, DISGISTING! Was there to much radiation where he was bred or what?


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## MacabreMikolaj

^

Nope, just a l'il ol' thing known as "lulz, HYPP GIVES BIG MUSCLES AND S/HE'S ONLY A CARRIER SO WE SHOULD BREED ANYWAY."


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## wild_spot

I think the reason I like the first horse so much and a lot of you don't, is that you are used to seeing functional, bulldog type QH.

Here in AUS there aren't that many really bulky QH out working or competeing - It's the finer horses like in the OP who have more economical movement and expend less energy and have less bulk to try and manouvre that tend to excel.


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## draftrider

Sir Cool Skip makes me want to vomit.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Quarter horses going English. They are a versatile breed and can do anything they can physically be trained for.

But, I don't like the fact that so many quarter horses now adays don't even LOOK like quarter horses. To me a quarter horse has a nice big bum, not like a TB's long lean bum. They are supposed to be built for short bursts of extreme speed, which the big muscular bum gives. 

They should NOT LOOK LIKE A FATTED BEEF! Seriously, how is that even attractive?


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## draftrider

And the poor guy died at 17? Heck my last quarter horse had to be put down at 32, and my current mare is 16 and acts like a 5 year old. UGH!


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## CloudsMystique

Tennessee said:


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Oh god... His hind legs are actually as straight as his front legs.

I really just don't see how someone could walk into the show ring with something with such a blatantly obvious and massive conformation fault.

Breed beef-cow looking QHs and alien-looking Arabs if you have to - that's mostly cosmetic, but is it really necessary to produce an example of BAD conformation and bad bone structure and show it as an example of GOOD conformation and bone structure?


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## AfleetAlex

When I think of a Quarter Horse I think of something like this.


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## azarni

I just can't stand the diaper butts that so many halter QHs have. Ew.


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## Tennessee

AfleetAlex said:


> When I think of a Quarter Horse I think of something like this.




Oh me too. Well, maybe not exactly that, but close enough.


For some reason when I think halter QH I think buff. lol. Like body builders showing off their bods.


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## smrobs

This horse won countless points in halter way back in the day in the 70's and 80's. He also competed in team roping and sometimes reining or working cow horse. He was about 16 hands tall and probably weighed 1450 in his prime. He wore a size 2 shoe and his legs actually had the proper size bone to support his bulk.










And this is his Daddy, Perfection John. He was a good little working cow horse.









I like to have good size and adequate muscles on my QHs but I need them to still be functional. They need to top out and keep up with a wild cow sometimes, and other times, they need to suck down in the ground to cut that cow out of the herd. Even if Sir Cool Skip had been sound for riding, it would have been physically impossible for him to do something like that.


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## Deerly

Sir Cool Skip makes my heart break. That poor animal! I totally agree with whoever said he looks like he grew up next to a power plant with too much radiation! Eeeeek! 

Can you imagine how unhappy and uncomfortable those horses must be? 

I personally LOVE the look of warmbloods and thoroughbreds but I still don't like the first horse. I still think it looks like the pieces were put together wrong and his head is way too tiny for those legs and body.

I think my AQHA is very nice looking  He's a beef-cake but not absurd. Not a halter horse, but he's my fav american quarter horse <3


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## smrobs

^^He is gorgeous. Well muscled, stocky, and wide but still athletic. THAT is what a QH should be.


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## CloudsMystique

My horse is a good example of what I like in a QH... even though she's not a QH, haha.




























(Ignore me - I'm fixing my reins, haha)






















Here are some *actual *QHs I like...










(I'm not sure why they tilted the picture to make him look more downhill...)

These will only work as links for some reason...
http://static.equine.com/listing_images/9/7/3/973653_12905049_hd.jpg
http://www.mcbridesquarterhorses.com/dbs/stallions/images/1233347975.jpg


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## sorelhorse

you guys have to remember that the 70's and 80's was 40 years ago!! styles change. back then, halter had a completely different meaning.


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## myhorsesonador

Sonador is halter breed. Shes out of impresive. her back is to long and her nec is slightly to short but I dont thinl she looks bad. I should get you guys some new pics of her. I really hate it when you guys go off about halter horses. My mare is 100% halter bred and she jumps 4ft with no problem and is doing very well with her training. has absolutly no problems with the way she was bred.


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## sorelhorse

myhorsesonador said:


> Sonador is halter breed. Shes out of impresive. her back is to long and her nec is slightly to short but I dont thinl she looks bad. I should get you guys some new pics of her. I really hate it when you guys go off about halter horses. My mare is 100% halter bred and she jumps 4ft with no problem and is doing very well with her training. has absolutly no problems with the way she was bred.


haha my horse was halter bred too! second in the nation for paint horses actually. then he stopped growing. now hes a world champion show horse from paint and pinto worlds!! lol.


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## draftrider

sorelhorse said:


> you guys have to remember that the 70's and 80's was 40 years ago!! styles change. back then, halter had a completely different meaning.


Styles change, but functionality shouldn't. To me, this statement is a total cop out. "Its ok for a horse to look like a fatted beef because that's the new style". Or, how about "Breed those feet tiny and those back legs posty, thats the new style!"

But how do those horses hold up in the real world? Could that poor pitiful creature with peg legs and more muscle than my Percheron cut a cow or ride fence for miles a day? Nope. He would probably drop dead! 

Change the length of mane, stick in fake tails, heck paint their hooves with rainbow glitter polish. But form should always follow function. The American Quarter Horse is supposed to be a highly versatile WORKING horse. Not a bloated beefsteak or peg leg nitwit that can't barely move properly.


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## sorelhorse

*Styles change, but functionality shouldn't. To me, this statement is a total cop out. "Its ok for a horse to look like a fatted beef because that's the new style". Or, how about "Breed those feet tiny and those back legs posty, thats the new style!"*
so yes, maybe they are fat with small necks, though look at them closely and they all have great confo. 

*But how do those horses hold up in the real world? Could that poor pitiful creature with peg legs and more muscle than my Percheron cut a cow or ride fence for miles a day? Nope. He would probably drop dead! *
i wouldnt say real world matters with them. they are the real world. i hhiigghhly doubt anyone would take a halter horse and sell him to someone who has a purpose outside of the show/ride for fun world.

*Change the length of mane, stick in fake tails, heck paint their hooves with rainbow glitter polish. But form should always follow function. The American Quarter Horse is supposed to be a highly versatile WORKING horse. Not a bloated beefsteak or peg leg nitwit that can't barely move properly*
and who said the aqha halter horses cant be versatile? my horse can do great in wp and english pleasure and trail and showmanship, and aparently so can myhorsesonadors horse can also. and fyi-no one uses glitter painted hoove stuff. now im not saying all halter horses are versatile and can go in a pleasure class and win, but still.
.


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## myhorsesonador

draftrider said:


> Styles change, but functionality shouldn't. To me, this statement is a total cop out. "Its ok for a horse to look like a fatted beef because that's the new style". Or, how about "Breed those feet tiny and those back legs posty, thats the new style!"
> 
> But how do those horses hold up in the real world? Could that poor pitiful creature with peg legs and more muscle than my Percheron cut a cow or ride fence for miles a day? Nope. He would probably drop dead!
> 
> Change the length of mane, stick in fake tails, heck paint their hooves with rainbow glitter polish. But form should always follow function. The American Quarter Horse is supposed to be a highly versatile WORKING horse. Not a bloated beefsteak or peg leg nitwit that can't barely move properly.


Did you even read what I said???? NOT ALL HALTER HORSES ARE LIKE THAT! My halter horse is not a peg leged nitwit that cant move around properly. :evil:


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## wild_spot

^ NO ONE says that all halter horses are. MOST WINNING halter horses are. If your horse can successfully compete in another discipline then I highly doubt it was shown to a high level successfully at halter. 

We are talking specifically about those horses who are bred to be looked at and who can't function properly, like a horse should.

If you have a sound, functional halter bred horse then great! That's what we want more of, and why I started this thread!



> i hhiigghhly doubt anyone would take a halter horse and sell him to someone who has a purpose outside of the show/ride for fun world.


The entire point of halter is meant to be showcasing a horse that is the perfect example of a breed and the conformation needed for that breed to acheive it's purpose. The purpose of the QH was/is to sprint a quarter mile and to work cattle. Hence, halter should be about showcasing horses perfectly built to perform those tasks.

Halter has been perverted and now I about showcasing how far you can go breeding to extremes. I'm glad this hasn't happened to my breed yet. My breed (ASH) are the leaner Australian cousins of the QH. Our led classes still showcase a horse who is built for strength, agility and plain being able to work! That is what halter should be about.


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## Deerly

wild_spot said:


> The entire point of halter is meant to be showcasing a horse that is the perfect example of a breed and the conformation needed for that breed to acheive it's purpose. The purpose of the QH was/is to sprint a quarter mile and to work cattle. Hence, halter should be about showcasing horses perfectly built to perform those tasks.
> 
> Halter has been perverted and now I about showcasing how far you can go breeding to extremes.


This. Not all halter horses, obviously, but just like any other kind of breeding to extremes for looks over function.


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## draftrider

myhorsesonador said:


> Did you even read what I said???? NOT ALL HALTER HORSES ARE LIKE THAT! My halter horse is not a peg leged nitwit that cant move around properly. :evil:



I wasn't replying to you. I never said your horse is a peg legged nitwit that can't move around properly. I was responding to sorelhorse who apparently feels the grotesquely bred "halter horses" are just the new style.

THIS IS WHAT I SAID-

"Styles change, but functionality shouldn't. To me, this statement is a total cop out. "Its ok for a horse to look like a fatted beef because that's the new style". Or, how about "Breed those feet tiny and those back legs posty, thats the new style!"

But how do those horses hold up in the real world? Could that poor pitiful creature with peg legs and more muscle than my Percheron cut a cow or ride fence for miles a day? Nope. He would probably drop dead! 

Change the length of mane, stick in fake tails, heck paint their hooves with rainbow glitter polish. But form should always follow function. The American Quarter Horse is supposed to be a highly versatile WORKING horse. Not a bloated beefsteak or peg leg nitwit that can't barely move properly."


Did I say Myhorsesonador has a peg legged nitwit? NO. I said that the American Quarter horse is supposed to be a versatile working horse, NOT a bloated beefsteak or peg leg nitwit that can't move properly. It was not meant to insult you, unless you perhaps own a horse that has bulging muscles like the Belgian Blue bull I posted photos of. And if he DOES look like that then you are doing your horse a gross disservice.


​


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## draftrider

sorelhorse said:


> *Styles change, but functionality shouldn't. To me, this statement is a total cop out. "Its ok for a horse to look like a fatted beef because that's the new style". Or, how about "Breed those feet tiny and those back legs posty, thats the new style!"*
> so yes, maybe they are fat with small necks, though look at them closely and they all have great confo.
> 
> *But how do those horses hold up in the real world? Could that poor pitiful creature with peg legs and more muscle than my Percheron cut a cow or ride fence for miles a day? Nope. He would probably drop dead! *
> i wouldnt say real world matters with them. they are the real world. i hhiigghhly doubt anyone would take a halter horse and sell him to someone who has a purpose outside of the show/ride for fun world.
> 
> *Change the length of mane, stick in fake tails, heck paint their hooves with rainbow glitter polish. But form should always follow function. The American Quarter Horse is supposed to be a highly versatile WORKING horse. Not a bloated beefsteak or peg leg nitwit that can't barely move properly*
> and who said the aqha halter horses cant be versatile? my horse can do great in wp and english pleasure and trail and showmanship, and aparently so can myhorsesonadors horse can also. and fyi-no one uses glitter painted hoove stuff. now im not saying all halter horses are versatile and can go in a pleasure class and win, but still.
> .




You said- that they might be fat with small necks, but they have great confo? How does that work? What about those posty hind legs, no angulation to the hocks, and teeny little feet?

Now you say that the "real world" of working horses doesn't matter, because "halter horses" with grotesque bloated muscles and perverted body structure are the real world? And no one rides halter horses? Sure I can see no one being able to ride a fatted beef style halter horse. They'd probably collapse.

YOU said halter horses can't be versatile because their "real world" is only in a show ring as a halter horse. 

Is there a smily that just indicates I am slamming my head into a wall?


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## Tennessee

The deal is, halter is SUPPOSED to portray the ideal conformation of the Quarter Horse, but some point in time it changed. Now, halter has absolutely nothing to do with showing a functionally sound horse. Fads change. 

Y'all keep saying what it is SUPPOSED to be, but it's not. So deal with it. lol.


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## horseluver2435

I really like the first horse- maybe his head is a little small, but I don't mind that. I do admit that I only ride English, so he does appeal to me as an English horse. That being said, I could easily see him being a Western horse too. His leg action reminds me of my QH x TB, she practically is tripping herself when she trots, like he seems to be doing.

As for the halter debate, I just have to say that fads shouldn't really matter. Yes, overmuscled QH's are winning the halter classes now. Does that mean we shouldn't try to change things? Throwing examples out there- peanut rolling, a fad a lot of people bash on here, was a rad that is now changing, because people saw it, didn't like it, and tried hard to change it. Now it is.
Rolkur, or LDR, another fad that has been bashed. Same thing. People saw it, didn't like it, tried to change it, and now there are rules about it.

So what if it's a fad? Fads change. Fads disappear. Stick an 'E' onto fad and you get fade.


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## inaclick

Everything that I wanted to say or add has been said by the poster above me


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## draftrider

When was the breed standard rewritten?


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## horseluver2435

< Found you a headdesk emoticon.


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## horseluver2435

< OOH! Who's the best? I am. Found your head to wall smiley.


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## draftrider

THANK YOU!!!

It is totally like beating your head into a wall around here sometimes.


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## horseluver2435

No problem.  








I think ^ this happens a lot too.


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## sorelhorse

Tennessee said:


> The deal is, halter is SUPPOSED to portray the ideal conformation of the Quarter Horse, but some point in time it changed. Now, halter has absolutely nothing to do with showing a functionally sound horse. Fads change.
> 
> Y'all keep saying what it is SUPPOSED to be, but it's not. So deal with it. lol.


yes halter has changed, but it still places the best conformationaly horses in first. and let me tell you-if that halter horse is off, its outa there faster than anything.


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## CloudsMystique

sorelhorse said:


> yes halter has changed, but it still places the best conformationaly horses in first.


But apparently the legs are completely ignored.


I don't know how any sober person can describe this as _conformationally correct_:










That's a world champion, BTW.


If you cover his bottom half with your hand (even with his sheath), he looks like a cute, normal horse! But when you cover the top half, he looks like the product of a BYB program.


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## GreyRay

myhorsesonador said:


> Did you even read what I said???? NOT ALL HALTER HORSES ARE LIKE THAT! My halter horse is not a peg leged nitwit that cant move around properly. :evil:


 That might be true, but is she the one winning world championships? no, the PorkBags are.


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## Curly_Horse_CMT

He seems short-bodied to me, but that is not what irks me...it is more his head and neck. Seems too refined for his body, maybe? :?


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## draftrider

ROFLMAO @ Porkbags.


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## horseluver2435

Ew. That World Champion makes me want to barf. I'm sorry, but that shouldn't be considered close to conformationally correct. 

How do these horses move? Is there a video of halter horses? I'd imagine they go really slowly, like elephants.


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## GreyRay

horseluver2435 said:


> Ew. That World Champion makes me want to barf. I'm sorry, but that shouldn't be considered close to conformationally correct.
> 
> How do these horses move? Is there a video of halter horses? I'd imagine they go really slowly, like elephants.


They do, they are really slow and stiff, it looks painful . I wouldn't even give them the credit of having the grace of an elephant!

I would give you a vid but my puter hates me.


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## GreyRay

Wait! Got one


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## horseluver2435

I don't think that one looks too bad. I mean, I do see a slower trot & walk, but to me, it just looks like a Western jog & walk. Am I not seeing something that I should be seeing here? 

EDIT: Watching more of it, I do see his trot looks reallllly choppy and short, but I don't think he's super over-muscled or anything. In fact, compared to the past pictures, he looks rather...nice? Maybe I'm just crazy, but I'd rather see the above than the World Champion on the last page or so.

Off-topic: The lady's voice on the video sounded really weird...like she was on drugs or something.


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## smrobs

Here is a vid of one of the more muscled up ones. In all honesty, his gaits look horrible and even if he was sound for riding, I bet nobody would want to deal with getting beat to death.


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## draftrider

I wonder if those fatted beef horses can even breed naturally. He is SO gross looking! He makes me want to throw up.

Here is a nice using quarter horse.


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## Quest

I think they are all gorgeous! Some of their paint horses they have for sale are really cute


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## sorelhorse

GreyRay said:


> That might be true, but is she the one winning world championships? no, the PorkBags are.


 hey my horse won championships in halter and now hes a champion western pleasure/english pleasure/trail horse


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## draftrider

Post some pics of your halter horse then so we can see if he is normal shaped or freakishly beefy.


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## smrobs

DR, your making me hungry talking about all this beef .


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## smrobs

My biggest problem isn't even that they are breeding for more muscle (though too much is still too much), it's that they are breeding the legs out from under them. The legs are the foundation of a horse and it's shock system for when it is moving around. Larger feet help to absorb the shock of motion and provide more surface area for the pressure to be spread out, the angle of the pasterns is the horse's concussion absorber. For a horse to have pasterns straight up and down, every bit of concussion from every stride is going straight from their hooves to their joints with no relief. I am battling that right now with a couple of horses that I have. One of my customer mares has very upright pasterns and fairly small, flat feet for her body size. I am having a very hard time keeping her sound for training. Also, my horse Jessie is 16 hands, probably weighs close to 1200lbs but his pasterns are fairly straight and when my brother (farrier) looked at his feet the other day, he said they are probably a size 00. A horse that size should wear no less than a 1, preferably a 2. No wonder the poor guy is unsound for riding at age 12. Breed whatever muscle you want, just make sure the horse has the support system and legs to functionally support it. The muscle they are breeding on some of them needs draft legs to support it, but then it wouldn't be a QH any more I guess.


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## sorelhorse

draftrider said:


> Post some pics of your halter horse then so we can see if he is normal shaped or freakishly beefy.


aaallrighty.
so i got some pictures of my horse when he is a baby, and i know they arent the gratest, but they are the only ones i have. in these pictures he is only 1-2 years old, and you must remember hes only a baby, so hes not super beefy, but hes still vveerryy beefy for a 1-2 year old.



















*in this pic hes only a one yr old(below)*











and heres some halter papers just to prove it










annnddd! here is his pic now, of a good wp, english pleasure, showmanship...etc horse.
















as you can see, he is still very muscly, but hes not beefy-just goes to prove halter horses arent "ruined" once a halter horse.


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## smrobs

^^He is a good looking boy. Broad and well muscled but not grotesque looking. Really, the only thing I don't like about him are his pasterns. They are a bit too upright unless they have changed angle since he was young.


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## sorelhorse

smrobs said:


> ^^He is a good looking boy. Broad and well muscled but not grotesque looking. Really, the only thing I don't like about him are his pasterns. They are a bit too upright unless they have changed angle since he was young.


nope still upright. cant do much about it though. it doesnt have a huge effect on him though.


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## MacabreMikolaj

Why doesn't he still show halter?

My problem is how rarely you ever see horses multi-tasking from performance to halter at the SAME time. In the Arabian world, the National Champions OFTEN used to also be performance champions. Now, it's almost unheard of. Not that it DOESN'T happen, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous that we create a non-performance horse out of what is supposed to be the breed standard.

Back in the day, a good horse was a good horse, period. Now it's like a game of how completely different we can make them look from anything that resembles a performance animal.


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## draftrider

Sorelhorse, he is a very nice looking horse. He has MUCH better conformation than most of the "halter" horses that we've seen that are not breed standard, and not conformationally correct.

I do think you should STILL show him in halter. He is a very nice looking boy and it is obvious that you take exceptional care of him. Yes he is beefy but he looks HEALTHY to me. =)


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## draftrider

Smrobs, sorry I made you hungry. I'm having Ramen for dinner tonight- got a big vet bill to pay so mother hubbards cubbard is kinda skanty right now LOL!!!! But it is beef flavored ramen... you are welcome to come to dinner!


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## sorelhorse

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Why doesn't he still show halter?
> 
> My problem is how rarely you ever see horses multi-tasking from performance to halter at the SAME time. In the Arabian world, the National Champions OFTEN used to also be performance champions. Now, it's almost unheard of. Not that it DOESN'T happen, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous that we create a non-performance horse out of what is supposed to be the breed standard.
> 
> Back in the day, a good horse was a good horse, period. Now it's like a game of how completely different we can make them look from anything that resembles a performance animal.


we do still do halter, mostly for all around, and he does decent, though he cant beet the beefy ones. if i am right, i remember halter used to be the class where the ideal "overall" horse was shown=halter. then it changed, and some associations even made it a rule to have halter horses do atleast one performance class, but people took advantage of it and entered the least physical class they could. therfor-they said goodbye to that rule.



draftrider said:


> Sorelhorse, he is a very nice looking horse. He has MUCH better conformation than most of the "halter" horses that we've seen that are not breed standard, and not conformationally correct.
> 
> I do think you should STILL show him in halter. He is a very nice looking boy and it is obvious that you take exceptional care of him. Yes he is beefy but he looks HEALTHY to me. =)


thankyou very much i actually have been showing him halter quite a bit, and he does well, until the fat ones come out...lol. though i must say, more ,uscles doesnt always win.
i remember at paint worlds, i was watching a hlater mares class, and was amazed at how fat the mares were! it just seemed weird.


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## riccil0ve

I didn't read all 11 pages.

I do like the horse WS posted, I think he's beautiful! I don't typically like QH's, but I do like him. His neck is a little thin, but I bet with proper work, his neck will muscle up and he'll lose the "fat" he has from being a halter baby. It certainly is nice to know that not ALL successful halter horses are nasty blobs of fat on sticks. 

What I absoultely cannot STAND though, is black hoof polish on white hooves. Drives me bonkers. Clear polish, folks, clear polish.


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## draftrider

I prefer glitter polish.


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## riccil0ve

I can handle glitter. Twinkle toes!! =]


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## corinowalk

I *did* read all 11 pages and have to agree with the majority. Those big fat muscly QH halter horses are mostly gross. Dont get me wrong...I like a big fat booty. Nico actually has a butt crack...thats how fat his is! But he also has the legs to back it up. AAAAND...his shoulder is as big as his butt. The video that draftrider posted...that horse was ALL booty. NO shoulder. I have to find my old pics of me and my QH doing halter. We never went far with it but when we did show, we almost always won. When he was dressed up and cleaned up...he sure does look like the breed standard, King. (his name was king, coincedently!) Instead, I will post my last horse, Nico. He has a tad of impressive in his lines but is N/N. He doesnt have the tiny feet either! 

First pic...could someone please brush that horse!!!
Second pic...Someone feed him...hes starving!
Third pic...he can extend when he wants to!


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## Eliz

Halter horses are their own breed now. Halter used to be an additional class that performance horses entered, there were few horses specifically bred for halter.

Now- I own a "halter-bred" horse. No, he is not a national champion, but his parents were. In pasture condition, he is about as beefy as sorellhorse's guy. He has VERY jarrin gaits, and he is too structurally "stiff" to allow me to do performance classes with him. He is too posty/stiff for reining, and too long-bodied/stiff for cow work. He also doesn't have much sense bred into him, he's just a big dumbo.  It's sad really, that he is purposely bred that way, and it reminds me so much of krazy kolor breeders.

The ideal QH to me would be the reining/cow horse look. I love the minds of those horses too (not that some halter-bred QHs dont enjoy good work). But my image of a QH is a cowy or agile and very versitile (sp?) breed.


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## draftrider

riccil0ve said:


> I can handle glitter. Twinkle toes!! =]


I am not ashamed to admit that every once in a while I use the rainbow glitter polish to put little hearts on my horse's butts.


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## Eastowest

_>>>> neck thin >>>> legs are too long>>>>> small head_

I see several posts mentioning that the horse in the OP is too long legged, too short backed, fine necked... Not sure if you noticed, he is only 2 years old in the photos. He is going to grow into those legs a bit more. his body will get deeper and perhaps longer. His neck and head (and likely the rest of him) will mass up more as he matures. He is just a baby--Albeit a big tall very fit baby, LOL .


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## horseluver2435

on page 9, the videos posted after I had- ICK! Why, why, why? Is that really attractive to someone? 

To everything else- I agree that all this talk of beef makes me hungry, but that might be because I just woke up as well [and put up 600 bales of hay last night  ]. I also agree with eastowest that the original horse will probably grow into himself a little bit more. He's awfully nice looking for a 2 year old though!


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## equiniphile

Honestly? I have to agree. That horse is put together amazingly, and exceptionally balanced-looking for a 2yo! THIS is more of what I'd like to see! He does look a little camped under, but that could be from the way he was standing or just from being a 2yo.


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## equiniphile

smrobs said:


> Here is a vid of one of the more muscled up ones. In all honesty, his gaits look horrible and even if he was sound for riding, I bet nobody would want to deal with getting beat to death.
> YouTube - CARIBBEAN KID - AQHA Halter Stallion - hypp N/N


That canter makes me want to puke!


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## Icyred

equiniphile said:


> That canter makes me want to puke!


Even so, he has a really cute face imo. Lol


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## Hali

Do you have any examples of a ASH, Wild_Spot?


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## GraciesMom

GreyRay said:


> Wait! Got one
> YouTube - Not Kiddin Me AQHA Stallion


Did I hear Topeka, KS at the beginning of this video? That is where I was born and lived there until I was nine.


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## smrobs

Hali said:


> Do you have any examples of a ASH, Wild_Spot?


She knows where to find the pictures of all the good ones but I found a site with several that I thought were really pretty.
Silverthorn Australian Stock Horses - We Have The Breed For Your Needs


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## corinowalk

They mostly look like AppendixQH's to me. If there were a comparison. I love them! They look to be every bit, if not more, versitile than the AQH.


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## smrobs

Yep, it is like they took the very best aspects of the QH and the very best aspects of the TB and mixed them all into one breed.


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## AfleetAlex

I love the looks of Australian Stock Horses. I have a horse book with a gorgeous picture of a stallion. 

ASH's are a mix of Waler and Thoroughbred. Walers were local stock used and bred for working sheep and cattle. They were named after the New South Wales province where they were mostly bred.


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## QHDragon

equiniphile said:


> That canter makes me want to puke!


He looks so muscled up that he is having a hard time moving his back legs. :shock: At least he's N/N I guess. :lol:


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## QHDragon

smrobs said:


> My biggest problem isn't even that they are breeding for more muscle (though too much is still too much), it's that they are breeding the legs out from under them. The legs are the foundation of a horse and it's shock system for when it is moving around. Larger feet help to absorb the shock of motion and provide more surface area for the pressure to be spread out, the angle of the pasterns is the horse's concussion absorber. For a horse to have pasterns straight up and down, every bit of concussion from every stride is going straight from their hooves to their joints with no relief. I am battling that right now with a couple of horses that I have. One of my customer mares has very upright pasterns and fairly small, flat feet for her body size. I am having a very hard time keeping her sound for training. Also, my horse Jessie is 16 hands, probably weighs close to 1200lbs but his pasterns are fairly straight and when my brother (farrier) looked at his feet the other day, he said they are probably a size 00. A horse that size should wear no less than a 1, preferably a 2. No wonder the poor guy is unsound for riding at age 12. Breed whatever muscle you want, just make sure the horse has the support system and legs to functionally support it. The muscle they are breeding on some of them needs draft legs to support it, but then it wouldn't be a QH any more I guess.



Amen. I always thought halter was suppose to be about showing horses with the best conformation, but all the halter horses have these straight legs and teeny tiny feet (and teeny tiny and upright feet seem to be spilling over into the WP/HUS world too), how is this showing the best conformation for a stock horse? They look like they would be like riding pogo sticks, and would be lame after an hour of any type of work.


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## draftrider

I show dairy goats. When we do conformation shows, which is basically what a halter class is- the animal that wins is the one that fits the breed standard best. A dairy goat's breed standard is written to describe a doe that is best suited towards producing milk. Every part of her body flows together to produce milk. Form, following function.

Therefore, you would think the halter horses that are winning should be those with near perfect conformation to do the jobs that the breed was created for.


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## paintsrule

Anyone else find it ironic? We banned slaughter in the u.s. and yet we are breeding halter horses that are so beefy and useless that they would go great as meat products for humans. I wonder how many people would throw a fit if someone publically suggested slaughtering the porkheads (aqha "champion" halter horses) since they cant do anything anyway. I bet the breeders would trim them up real quick if there meatbags were threatened with consumption instead of earning money. Then we could go back to the way things were with functional, versatile quarter horses and way more food for us!
Sorry to be crude but the irony is sort of sickly funny.


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## sorelhorse

paintsrule said:


> Anyone else find it ironic? We banned slaughter in the u.s. and yet we are breeding halter horses that are so beefy and useless that they would go great as meat products for humans. I wonder how many people would throw a fit if someone publically suggested slaughtering the porkheads (aqha "champion" halter horses) since they cant do anything anyway. I bet the breeders would trim them up real quick if there meatbags were threatened with consumption instead of earning money. Then we could go back to the way things were with functional, versatile quarter horses and way more food for us!
> Sorry to be crude but the irony is sort of sickly funny.


they arent "useless". and that makes whatsoever no sense, because even if people suggested slaughtering horses(like you) they couldnt do it because it is not personally the slaughteres horse, unless they wanted to buy the horse for thousands of dollars, but the meat price would be to high. and this slaughtering suggestion would have no effect on the beefiness of the qh's because you cant say "that horse is too fat, im going to take him away from the owner and slaughter him".


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## wild_spot

Sorry I missed a few pages of this!



> Do you have any examples of a ASH, Wild_Spot?


I have plenty :]

The stud that Smrobs posted have some really nice horses - One of my favourite young stallions is there Silverthorn Shotgun and they have quite a nice Palmers Fort Abdul descendant called St Ronan Abdul Smoke.

Shotgun:










St Ronan:










Palmers Fort Abdul is a stallion who very strongly stamps his get. I am a big fan of his sire sons/grandsons.

One of my favourite ASh stallions, a Palmers Fort Abdul son, and now living in canada and competeing successfully in reined cowhorse is Cadabra:










A young colt called Jarendan Just Is who is a Palmers Fort Abdul grandson (Or great grandson, can't remember):










An older, highly successful stallion by The Ranch Abbeys Top Gun, Binnia Gunslinger:










A Palmers Fort Abdul grandson, who I would like to breed my mare to one day, called Waylon J Justice:




















A young campdraft sire I really like called Kneipps Conray:










A very famous campdraft sire, now deceased, Warrenbri Romeo:










A young sire from the same stud, Warrenbri Cooper:


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## wild_spot

Stockhorses are mostly a mix of TB with Walers and bush ponies. The ponies and walers gave them their cow sense and agility while the Tb gave them their more refined looks, speed, and some stamina. There is also a bit of Arab mixed in there for stamina also.


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## QHDragon

wild-spot - those are beautiful, they look like ponies in comparison to the horses posted before. XD


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## Amir

Icyred said:


> I LOVE the horse in the first original post! Looks like he could be a great dressage horse possibly.


Agree. Though when I looked at him I could just imagine him excelling in almost anything he was put to.
Absolutely beautiful. If my friend didn't already have another stallion lined up, I would be telling her about him.



Oh and wild_spot - STOCKHORSE LOVE!!! Simply amazing breed. A favorite of mine, second only to the Arab


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## wild_spot

^ Ditto - Arabs and ASH are my top breeds. Also the only two I happen to own, lol!

And a good comparison - this is Cadabra, shown above, decked out in his western gear and competeing at working cow horse:


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## Amir

*wipes drool from keyboard*

When I was horse shopping last year I was looking for one but ended up with an Arab. Meh, I can just steal my friends!


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## paintsrule

sorelhorse said:


> they arent "useless". and that makes whatsoever no sense, because even if people suggested slaughtering horses(like you) they couldnt do it because it is not personally the slaughteres horse, unless they wanted to buy the horse for thousands of dollars, but the meat price would be to high. and this slaughtering suggestion would have no effect on the beefiness of the qh's because you cant say "that horse is too fat, im going to take him away from the owner and slaughter him".


I was kidding.


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## draftrider

sorelhorse said:


> they arent "useless". and that makes whatsoever no sense, because even if people suggested slaughtering horses(like you) they couldnt do it because it is not personally the slaughteres horse, unless they wanted to buy the horse for thousands of dollars, but the meat price would be to high. and this slaughtering suggestion would have no effect on the beefiness of the qh's because you cant say "that horse is too fat, im going to take him away from the owner and slaughter him".


What use besides trying to lay on beef and fat to create a colossal mess of a horse would they have? Obviously they are conformationally defective and there is NO way the porkbag beef horses could possibly compete in anything besides a class where they stand still. 

My horses could run circles around one of those sad, pathetic and lame horses. I'm sorry, I know you love your horse, but he isn't what I'd even consider a "porkbag". I'm talking about the toothpick legged blobs.


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## sorelhorse

draftrider said:


> What use besides trying to lay on beef and fat to create a colossal mess of a horse would they have? Obviously they are conformationally defective and there is NO way the porkbag beef horses could possibly compete in anything besides a class where they stand still.
> 
> My horses could run circles around one of those sad, pathetic and lame horses. I'm sorry, I know you love your horse, but he isn't what I'd even consider a "porkbag". I'm talking about the toothpick legged blobs.


eh, you have your opinions, i have mine. i dont think they are useless.


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## farmpony84

draftrider said:


> What use besides trying to lay on beef and fat to create a colossal mess of a horse would they have? Obviously they are conformationally defective and there is NO way the porkbag beef horses could possibly compete in anything besides a class where they stand still.
> 
> My horses could run circles around one of those sad, pathetic and lame horses. I'm sorry, I know you love your horse, but he isn't what I'd even consider a "porkbag". I'm talking about the toothpick legged blobs.


While it is true however that some halter horses get so huge and over muscled that they can barely move. Most halter horses can be muscled down and reconditioned to become nice riding horses. I've seen many of them.


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## Eastowest

_>>>>> While it is true however that some halter horses get so huge and over muscled that they can barely move. Most halter horses can be muscled down and reconditioned to become nice riding horses. I've seen many of them. _

I agree. There are also horses out of halter breeding that are never conditioned up to show at halter which are performers from day one. There are several examples of Appaloosa stallions I can think of who were "halter bred", who won big at halter themselves, and who sire(d) winning halter horses, but also sire(d) winning performers under saddle. From the 70's Goer, The Executive, from the 80's and 90's Dreamfinder, Impressive Andrew, up into the past decade Privatecollection, Maids Dream, Always Dignified.....


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## smrobs

Eastowest, here is another pretty good example of the type of horse you are talking about. This stud was a halter champion, but he was also shown in senior WP and calf roping. Unfortunately, he never had the chance to sire any foals, he died when he was young (they claim blister beetles but to this day, I swear he was killed) and the one mare that he was bred to died of colic while she was preggo. Very sad all around.


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## wild_spot

Sorry to bring this up again - But I found another one!

Now he is paint bred, but he also won supreme halter at an all breeds western state show:


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## payette

I sometimes see cattle at pasture and literally think they look delicious. Shining coats, rippling muscles that look like they would be perfectly marbled. . . . That's what Carribian Kid reminded me of. Not that I am advocating slaughtering halter horses- But my first thought really was "that'd be good eating"! 
I really like the ASH as well- I'd never heard of them before until a post of Wild Spot's awhile back.


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