# Horse scared of African Americans?



## GhostwindAppaloosa (Jun 3, 2011)

horses see differently than we do. Pretty sure in three colors. Black, white and red. (might be wrong on this.) so if a horse has never saw any color but white skin.. a dark skinned person approaching them could scare them.


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## Lexiie (Nov 14, 2011)

GhostwindAppaloosa said:


> horses see differently than we do. Pretty sure in three colors. Black, white and red. (might be wrong on this.) so if a horse has never saw any color but white skin.. a dark skinned person approaching them could scare them.


I'm not sure about the other two, but horses can't see red


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Perhaps the horse ha been abused by a black man in the past.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

It's anecdotal evidence at best, but I knew a mare who was TERRIFIED of Hispanic men. She was raised at a show barn where the men who did the stall cleaning and turnouts were Hispanic and would routinely smack the horses (HARD) with a rake if they didn't move out of the way quick enough and were just generally rough with them. The mare only lived at that barn until she was a yearling, then she was given to my friend. To my knowledge, she hadn't seen a Hispanic man in years, until she moved to the barn that my friend was leasing. The previous leaser and my friend had leases that overlapped by a couple of months (don't ask) and the previous leaser had a very nice Hispanic man who tended their horses for them. He never once treated any of the horses badly that we saw (he was actually very gentle with them) and was even nice enough to clean our stalls and bring our horses in from turnout. However, this mare absolutely WOULD NOT let this Hispanic man near her. She would get all antsy if he came near her stall and would literally go into hysterics if he had a rake with him. Even if you had her in hand and walked past the Hispanic man, she would turn so she could see him at all times and would dragon snort if he even looked at her. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I had a horse that was scared of blue ropes. When I was working bull ridings, those bulls would buck off the riders, then the ropes fall on the ground. So sometimes when I was following a bull out of the arena, there'd be 2 or 3 ropes laying in the arena. My horse would walk right over red, black, and brown ropes. But he always made a big wide circle around the blue ones......Odd, i know....


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Sorry i got off topic. I have to say too, This guy could really dance


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## azwantapaint (Feb 5, 2012)

Not just horses are hostile towards people or things....
I was driving through town with my wiener dog in my lap, when we stopped at a red light. 
All of a sudden, he goes from snoozin on my lap to trying to go through the passenger side window at a family pushing a baby carriage!
He never gets riled, has ALWAYS loved everyone (lousy watchdog), except this particular family.
They were VERY african american.
Apparently, he didnt like their shoes!


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

My horse is scared of yellow trot poles - the white, blue and red ones are OK by him!

I've also seen horses scared of Paint/Pinto horses.

I don't think it's too far fetched for a horse to be scared of a person based on color.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I don't see how you could make any association based on only one exposure. IT could have been any number of things that had the horse frightened, and if they were connected to the man (and I wonder about that), it could have been his clothing, his size, his scent, his way of speaking or moving.
I rather doubt the horse even really notices the color of the skin. Right now, it being winter, most of us have our skin pretty much covered up, so the horse can only see the man's face. I strongly doubt it was the color, however, if there is anything that might have been associated with a former bad experience for the horse, it might be connected to scent, such as some of the hair products that people can use or other sourced of strong scents.


I do not believe horses see red. I thought only greens and black and white.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I thought they could see red, blue, green, greys, black and white?


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## flytobecat (Mar 28, 2010)

I never had a horse respond differently based on a person's race, but ours definitely respond differently around children and men.
My one mare hasn't been around a lot of small children, and she gets a little nervous around them. I assuming its probably because of the way little kids move.
My sister's mare hasn't really been handled by anybody except for women, and she doesn't really care for men. We think that is because of pheromones or something.


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## DraftyAiresMum (Jun 1, 2011)

flytobecat said:


> My sister's mare hasn't really been handled by anybody except for women, and she doesn't really care for men. We think that is because of pheromones or something.


My gelding doesn't like most men, either. He loves my BO, but that's only because my BO raised him from the time he was a weanling until I bought him last May. He tolerates my farrier, but that's because I make him. lol Most other men, he'll bolt from if he's in turnout or he'll stay on the other side of his stall from them and watch them like a hawk. He's never been abused by men.

My friend and I (and our trainer) have discussed this at length, and we've come up with the theory that it's because men and women approach horses differently. Men are very business-like and "get it done" with horses, whereas women are softer and want to "make friends," as it were. Also, women are more likely to come bearing treats than men are. 

I will say this, though. My coming 3yo LOVES kids. Doesn't matter their age or gender, he loves them and wants to be near them. He's actually left off having me pet him before to go stand next to this little girl who was the size of his head (she was maybe four) and wait patiently for her to pet him with his head right down next to her. Soooo wish I would have had my camera!


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## sandy2u1 (May 7, 2008)

I once believed my horse, Major, was afraid of men. I began to notice that he does not dislike all men, but most. I also realized that even though he likes most women right from the git go, there are a couple of exceptions. I now believe that it is not because of the sex of a person, but it is how they approach and deal with him. 

I now believe it is because men are more aggressive, where as women tend to be more passive. I'm not sure I'm even using the right words here. I am in no way trying to be offensive, nor am I talking about horsemanship skills here. I am talking about our natural body language.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

There's a host of reasons why the horse could have changed behaviour!


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

I have always found this: "my horse doesn't like men or women or children concept" hard to understand. I am positive that horses make decisions about humans they feel ill at ease with or conversly at ease with, based on factors which we humans do not yet fully understand.

Horses do not see as we humans do, neither do we test a horse to check the quality of its vision.
Horse smell more definitively then we humans do, so they will pick up on smells or odours which we humans have no idea of.
Horses watch and record in memory the repetitive body language which we humans display as we walk or approach a horse.
Horses are very sensitive to touch and just as some humans are wary of getting too close to a horse - so are horse wary of getting too close to strangers.
And then there is voice; the volume and pitch of a human's voice gives clues to horses as to the nature of the individual. Horses react negatively to loud, sharp, fractious, voices. 

Then we humans must not try to transfer to a horse our own prejudices about humans which a horse most certainly will not understand.

Any owner of a dog of one of the more protective breeds will tell you that there is a way to approach an animal. A stranger can approach my Rottweiler without hesitation, so long as he first says 'hello' to the dog and allows the dog to sniff him. But there can be neither nervousness nor forwardness in the approach. If we have a deliveryman come to the door and ring the bell then my dog will rush to the hall whilst barking. I'll hold his collar and open the door. Then I'll assess the visitor for myself and mostly I will ask them to say 'Hello' to the dog in an acceptabe manner. Then I let go of the dog who will edge over and will gently say hello to the stranger.

It is the same with horses. There is a way for a strange human to approach and there are ways which will cause anxiety even hostility in a horse.

Yesterday whilst up in the woods a lovely Welsh cob came into view ridden by a young woman followed by a big labrador wearing a dog mask. I called out and said 'hello'. I waited a second or two, I let my dog go and we walked over steadily, dog at heel, to the horse box. I stopped a couple of yards from the horse and then I said 'hello' to it. The woman asked if I would hold the reins whilst she dismounted. The horse stood still, I gave him a stroke and apologised for not having a treat in the pocket of my coat, which probably smelt of mare.
Within a few minutes the five of us, two humans, two dogs and a horse were having a pow wow. We stood, heads to heads, and talked for half an hour whilst the horse was prepared for the journey back home. None of us had met the other before.

The mask fitted to the rider's dog gave a clue that maybe it was aggressive but I could see from its body language that it was not and the rider explained that the dog might otherwise pick up and carry branches which disturbed the horse.

At the time I was wearing a bright blue hand knitted bobble hat, which is very warm and cosy when plonked on my bald head on cold mornings. I must have looked a right twerp. But the horse didn't care. I must have smelt and sounded friendly. 

It is rare I hold back from horses, but when I do it is because I can see that my proximity might be unwelcome. In such instances it is usually the rider who is anxious about my interest, not the horse.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*An incident in The Square*

When I still had Joe , my wild woolly cob, we used to ride across to one of the local towns which had a square in the centre. In the square was a pub with a small area laid out with tables and chairs where customers could sit in the sun and gossip. We used to visit and I would tie Joe up to a convenent lamp post whiilst I partook of a glass of red. I would sit opposite from where Joe was tethered and I could see him all the time - except for when I went into the pub to collect my glass of wine.
On one occasion as I came out from the bar , I looked over to check on Joe and there was my Joe surrounded by a coven of ladies of the village, each leading a youngster - some even so young as to be ferried along in a push chair. Two very young children were actually stroking Joe. I was terrified. I dare not call out, I dare not rush over. I dare not show signs of panic. But the proximity of 8 young children to my 650 kile cob was an accident waiting to happen.

I quickly walked over and when I got close enough for a low pitched voice to be heard I said: *"Ladies, Ladies, please move the children back and away from the horse, Please, NOW."* Luckily for me (and Joe) they saw me in my riding breeches and boots and they did as I had asked. There was no incident. My cussed horse Joe had stood and allowed these strange, squeaking kids to stroke him. He had barely moved. What a boy. 

When I got close up, I stood between him and the loving mothers and I allowed them, one by one, to approach and stroke his nose. I also gave them a very polite and kind lecture about why never to approach a strange horse when tethered. 

I think those few minutes of anxiety in life caused me to lose several pounds of weight. But I had learned my lesson. I decided it was too dangerous to take him to that village again and sadly we never went again.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

Barry Godden said:


> When I still had Joe , my wild woolly cob, we used to ride across to one of the local towns which had a square in the centre. In the square was a pub with a small area laid out with tables and chairs where customers could sit in the sun and gossip. We used to visit and I would tie Joe up to a convenent lamp post whiilst I partook of a glass of red. I would sit opposite from where Joe was tethered and I could see him all the time - except for when I went into the pub to collect my glass of wine.
> On one occasion as I came out from the bar , I looked over to check on Joe and there was my Joe surrounded by a coven of ladies of the village, each leading a youngster - some even so young as to be ferried along in a push chair. Two very young children were actually stroking Joe. I was terrified. I dare not call out, I dare not rush over. I dare not show signs of panic. But the proximity of 8 young children to my 650 kile cob was an accident waiting to happen.
> 
> I quickly walked over and when I got close enough for a low pitched voice to be heard I said: *"Ladies, Ladies, please move the children back and away from the horse, Please, NOW."* Luckily for me (and Joe) they saw me in my riding breeches and boots and they did as I had asked. There was no incident. My cussed horse Joe had stood and allowed these strange, squeaking kids to stroke him. He had barely moved. What a boy.
> ...


What a gob-smacking and weird story. I can't begin to imagine what was in your mind. Leaving a horse unattended, tied to a lamp-post by it's reins and standing on the public pavement and with access to the road while you go drink alcohol!

Seems common sense isn't so common!


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## OwnedByAlli (Nov 8, 2011)

erm, actually I don't think the op is 'race obsessed' or whatever... Its absurd that making a distinction between race causes everyone to be appauled in todays society. We have to be so careful not to say something slightly wrong because we get labled so quickly

It is perfectly possibe a horse could be tense around a person with a different skin colour to what he is used to because horses do associate colours, sounds and smells with bad experiences. A horse could react the same way to a white guy if he was used to black handlers. My dog doesn't like people with grey hair. No reason why she should have this fear, she just does. Does this make me ageist?

Its most likely the horse had a bad experience with a coloured man, or someone wearing the same jacket/hat/shampoo.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

OwnedByAlli said:


> erm, actually I don't think the op is 'race obsessed' or whatever... Its absurd that making a distinction between race causes everyone to be appauled in todays society. We have to be so careful not to say something slightly wrong because we get labled so quickly.


Rightly so in my opinion. I for one will always challenge when someone says something racist. Even if its just 'slight'

Note:

The op's user name
The flawed story
The presumptions re ethnicity
The stereotypes
The leap to conclusion which is not fact-based- indeed it's absurd based on what's told
Previous posting history


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Many of the old coaching inns sited along the old rural highways in rural Britain retain the hitching rails and hooks for horses and what is more horse riders are welcome.
This particular pub located in the very centre of the village was a originally a coaching house
.
It is not the alcohol that matters - it is rather how much drunk at any one time.

The courtyard used originally by the coaching trade has been taken over in recent years for the parking of cars.

If ever one has the opportunity to trail ride in parts of rural Britain - the ride will usually be planned to run from pub to pub where facilities are available to water the horse and to rest the rider's aching backs.

As for tying Joe up with reins off a bit - never . He always wore under the bridle a string halter and we carried a separate lead rope.

You miss the point of my article.


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

why do some of you keep saying "colored"? it's the 21st century, how about we use terms that are a bit more educated and a bit less...jim crow?
oh, and for the record. animals do not see race. that is a human shortcoming that some choose to pin onto their animals in an attempt to further justfy their own prejudics.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iseul (Mar 8, 2010)

hoopla said:


> What a gob-smacking and weird story. I can't begin to imagine what was in your mind. Leaving a horse unattended, tied to a lamp-post by it's reins and standing on the public pavement and with access to the road while you go drink alcohol!
> 
> Seems common sense isn't so common!


I'm not seeing a huge problem here..

Anywho, I know Dude use to be aggressive towards me at first because I had the body shape similar to his owner's, who he never liked. After he realised I wasn't her in a few minutes he'd be fine. Only happened the first few times for the first few minutes before I actually touched him. Sox would actually come up to me in his stall because something of me (I assume) reminded me of his owner, he would walk up to no one else. He was never aggressive or ram away, just wouldn't be so nice as to walk up when being caught or come over for love in his stall. I usually had the treats that only they got them (owner's were a mother/daughter), so I assume they smelled that and just reacted?

I agree with others about horses not being able to tell (to a certain extent) what race a human/handler is. Different people have different scents. I've noticed that blacks to White generally have a different scent, but that's only because of their choice of what they wash their clothes in, spray they use, etc, not just because of their race, just what they generally choose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I think it's plausible but the scent explanation is more likely. 

I have one that doesn't like palomino (or other very light colored horses). Hondo was kicked by a pally mare when he was first used at stud when he was young. Still to this day, 25 years later he is terrified of light colored horses. I can recall riding him in a HUS class and passing a pally, I could feel him tremble and it was all I could do to keep him from trucking it across the arena to get away. He wouldn't cover any light colored mares after that but would gladly cover any other, it was a real pain to have to AI every palomino, grey, buckskin. If I bring Lacey (grey) in the barn, if he is in his stall he goes to the back corner and "hides" or goes back outside to get away. 

I think it's possible. I've met horses with aversions to many different things because of experiences in their past, they generally don't forget. I'd want to know that horse's history though before making that call.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

DraftyAiresMum said:


> It's anecdotal evidence at best, but I knew a mare who was TERRIFIED of Hispanic men.


Which "hispanic" men?

This one?










Or this one?


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

Barry Godden said:


> Many of the old coaching inns sited along the old rural highways in rural Britain retain the hitching rails and hooks for horses and what is more horse riders are welcome.
> This particular pub located in the very centre of the village was a originally a coaching house


 All really interesting and actually coaching is something I know a lot about.

However things have changed since the 1800's when Coaching or Staging Inns became redundant. 



> It is not the alcohol that matters - it is rather how much drunk at any one time.


 I'd say that it's the fact you left a horse unattended for such a trivial reason that mattered! 



> The courtyard used originally by the coaching trade has been taken over in recent years for the parking of cars.


 The photo clearly shows the horse standing on a path and in the road and with cars travelling by. NOT a courtyard at all. It's a street. 



> If ever one has the opportunity to trail ride in parts of rural Britain - the ride will usually be planned to run from pub to pub where facilities are available to water the horse and to rest the rider's aching backs.


 I've lived in rural England all my life and have owned equestrian centres for more than 40 years. I NEVER have been on a ride from pub to pub yet! 

I'm well aware that "some" places run tourist rides and take in a pub but they always have someone in attendance for the horses and they don't tie them and leave them alone at lamp posts.

IF they did then they'd be breaching the terms of their Riding Establishment's Licence. 



> As for tying Joe up with reins off a bit - never . He always wore under the bridle a string halter and we carried a separate lead rope.


 I couldn't see that in the photo.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

We had a horse with the same problem.

Years ago, my parents invited Arthur's old trainer over to ride. He happened to be a black man, and their MFT gelding flipped over on him when he went to mount and broke his nose. He would not let the man get anywhere near him. At the fun shows my mom took him to, the announcer was black, and the horse would go insane every time they went by the announcers booth.


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## gunslinger (Sep 17, 2011)

arrowsaway said:


> why do some of you keep saying "colored"? it's the 21st century, how about we use terms that are a bit more educated and a bit less...jim crow?
> oh, and for the record. animals do not see race. that is a human shortcoming that some choose to pin onto their animals in an attempt to further justfy their own prejudics.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know there is North America, and South America, so why the term African Americans?

Aren't the people who live on this continent all Americans, and aren't the people who were born here "Native Americans"? 

I dislike labels. Adjectives are the descriptive words used in English language to describe something or some person. They are one among the eight parts of speech. Adjectives are added to nouns to describe the colour, number and kind. The sentences are made very clear by adding these descriptive adjectives. They help in identifying or quantifying the words. Adjective always precedes a noun or pronoun. It can be even modified with adverb, phrase or a clause.

Thus, white person, black person etc would be correct IMO.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

I also dislike labels and stereotypes and jumping to conclusions on the basis of such.

Horses do not judge by ethnicity or colour.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I trained horses for a short time at the county fairgrounds near my home and there were two women that kept horses there as well. They were both openly gay but one of them was the "man" of the relationship. She could send a horse to the otherside of the arena or the end of the leadrope faster than any person I've ever met. Her girlfriend however got along very well with all the horses. Since they lived together and ate together I'd think thier smell was similar. They had similar hair and skin color but the more butch of the two was a large framed gal. I'm not sure what it was about her but NO horse liked her very much. The couples own horses tolerated her but were never at ease.

As far as AC's racial sensitivity goes I think he's relating a story that happened the way he told it. African Americans generally have dark COLORED skin so refering to them as colored is more accurate than assuming they came from africa since most can trace thier families back several generations in this country. I think it's funny that some of you are taken aback by the fact that the black guy could really dance. Most of them can! It's an ethnic stereotype for a reason. As far as why the horse didn't like him I can only guess but i once walk from the sun into a dark barn where there were two black guys of about the same size and I couldn't see ANY facial features for several minutes. If it hadn't been for the fact that one had a red chicago bulls hat on and the other had a black one on I couldn't have told them apart. I can see how a horse would see the same thing and be put off of it a little. To be honest I found it a little creepy myself.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

You're right. I form conclusions on the basis of facts, knowledge and information.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

*MODERATOR NOTE* 

Disagreement is fine and welcome. Please refrain from taking it to a personal level and digs at other members.


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## csimkunas6 (Apr 18, 2010)

Theres a horse at the barn like this.....he is a great horse, anyone can ride him type of horse, but hes knows what his job is, and thats Barrel Racing. My friend takes him all over the place competing and what not, and she says she doesnt have any issues with him until an African American is around. She says that her horse tries to kick, bite, paw, and generally act aggressive towards one if he sees one....


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm not sure why everyone here is getting so jumpy on this subject :l I've met animals that don't like white people, I've met animals that don't like "black people (And sorry if this isn't too PC as to not offend anyone.) and I've met animals who didn't like men or women. I'm sure they all had their different reasons, everyone smells different, genders smell different and different races have different smells (more likely than not); and scent is a very powerful memory tool.

I personally had a dog that STRONGLY disliked black people (I say that because I do not know if they were African Americans, Cuban, or whatnot.), but that was because our neighbors (who were black) would harass him day to day to the point that I could not leave him outside without him snarling at the fence line. Most lovable dog with anyone else.

That said, as a white girl when I moved into a Latino community for a few years, a few of their animals were very wary of me... well I was the only one like me there! So I didn't blame them.

Animals are sensitive to change, and they have strong memories about things that hurt them. Like I said before, the sense of smell is a very powerful memory tool, more so for our lovable companions. I do not believe it is far fetched at all for an animal to judge someone by their smell, they do it with each other all the time. 

My two-cents here


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

When I was a kid, my Dad was stationed in Alabama for 1.5 years. Selma, 1966. My Mom had grown up very poor, but she talked Dad into hiring a maid to come one morning a week.

The first day she arrived, our dog went nuts. My Mom was embarrassed, and explained that she guessed he hadn't been around many blacks. The black woman smiled and replied, "That's OK, my dog does the same thing when whites show up!"

Side note: It turned out that my Mom couldn't stand the thought of someone seeing her house dirty. The day before the maid would arrive, she would scrub the house spotless. When the maid arrived, there was nothing for her to clean - so they sat at the kitchen table, drank coffee and talked for 4 hours. From my Dad's perspective, one way or the other, the house was scrubbed once a week...


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

My buckskin has a problem w people of a "different color", always has. I had a Kelpie that was otherwise always quiet, rarely ever barked, minded his own biz....but when it came to blacks - he went nuts! If one walked by the truck and he were in the cab....the reaction was like something out of a steven king movie! I think it is b/c they never came into contact w them and they both perciev(ed) "different" as a "mega threat".


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Horses are perceptive, period.
My gelding has a STRONG aversion to men, especially portly ones and heavy people in general. He was being coyboyed/ridden by a 280lb. or probably more man when I got him, Rick is only 14.2hh, stocky but more an athletic pony. My vet is a very large strong man and Rick can't stand him, my farrier is a short stocky guy and still I have to stand there and tickle his lips to get him to stand still. If ANY man comes into the pasture he runs to the other side acting like a bronc blowing and rolling. My MIL is... lets just say larger at 6' and well larger. Rick runs from her.
He also dislikes hunting orange, can't seem to get it figured out. I put a couple old vests out in the pasture and after a few months he still refuses to graze near them, the other two have no problem. IDK, but they see what they see and act how they feel so it's possible a different looking person will trigger a reaction. So if a person with bright orange hair came out my sweet docile gelding would turn into a beast in 10 seconds flat.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I found this on what colors horses see.....

Unlike humans, which have three different types of retinal cells (blue, green and red cone photoreceptors) to detect color, horses have only two (a blue cone photoreceptor and a second photoreceptor that is most sensitive to light and is roughly between that of the human red and green cone). The horse also has fewer numbers of color detecting photoreceptors than do humans, and they are arranged differently in the retina than are human cone photoreceptors. Humans with normal color vision typically see four basic unique hues--blue, green, yellow and red--and about 100 intermediate colors that can be thought of as varying blends of pairs of the four unique colors (for example yellow-green, reddish-yellow/orange, reddish-blue/violet) and so forth). The most dramatic impact of having two cone types instead of three is that horses (and some “color-blind” humans) have only two unique hues, believed to be something similar to blue and yellow, and there are no intermediate hues. When colors at the far ends of the spectrum of visible light are mixed, the result is either a white/gray (this occurs in the blue-green range of the color spectrum), or a desaturated version of one of the two basic hues (e.g. a pastel yellow or a pastel blue). In a sense, horses are orange-blue “color-blind” in that although they can see objects with these colors, they cannot differentiate between orange and blue solely on the basis of color since they both appear to be gray-white to the horse. The fact that horses also have many fewer cones in the central retina than humans do also suggests that their perception of color may not be as vivid as that of humans and that colors appear as washed-out pastels or sepia.


I also had a horse that didn't seem to like men, he would refuse to load in the trailer if a man was standing behind or holding the door. If my mom or my girl friends was back there holding the door he would hop in..no problem. Same horse would kick the crap out of my the male shoers that come do his feet, I went through several because of it. I finally had a female come shoe him....he fell asleep...lol...and I used him for my shoing final for a little college course I took on shoeing. 

I also had a Hancock colt that I started that would blow up if got down low around him, like bending over to pick something off the ground or trying to pick up his feet. I only had about 20 rides on him and hauled him up to the rodeo grounds to ride him. The drill team was having practice and I unloaded my colt, tied him to the trailerand waited for them to finish. I was watching them practice and turned around to see a toddler underneath the colt with her arms wrapped around his front leg!!! He just stood there like a champ....

Point is you just never know what a horse will and wont react to....lol....sometimes I think they do it just to mess with us, tee he...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My mare prefers men. She doesn't dislike women, but she prefers men. The farrier is a big guy. When he arrives, she walks up to him and lifts a foot with an expression that says, "Can I get sparkles this time?" She never gets them, tho...


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## sassaflash (Mar 4, 2012)

arrowsaway said:


> why do some of you keep saying "colored"? it's the 21st century, how about we use terms that are a bit more educated and a bit less...jim crow?
> oh, and for the record. animals do not see race. that is a human shortcoming that some choose to pin onto their animals in an attempt to further justfy their own prejudics.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LOL Lots of black people use that term! Heck, it's even on shampoo bottles.. for "Women of Color".
Face it, every term out there is going to be considered offensive to somebody. Technically using the term "African American" is inappropriate as well because many Blacks aren't of (recent) African decent!

Technically speaking we're all from Africa!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I agree, that using the term "colored" is outdated. We are all colored, to some extent or another. But if your family, your parents or grandparents, or even yourself if you are old enough, had grown up in a world that seperated you out with the word "Colored only", you would definitely find that term offensive. It would then carry a lot of pointed meaning.


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

just to clarify for anyone who doesn't know, the saying "person of color/people of color", is different from calling someone a "colored person". Many people of color (non white people) would find the later term outdated.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

attackships said:


> just to clarify for anyone who doesn't know, the saying "person of color/people of color", is different from calling someone a "colored person". Many people of color (non white people) would find the later term outdated.


this is true.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

arrowsaway said:


> why do some of you keep saying "colored"? it's the 21st century, how about we use terms that are a bit more educated and a bit less...jim crow?
> oh, and for the record. animals do not see race. that is a human shortcoming that some choose to pin onto their animals in an attempt to further justfy their own prejudics.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, that a stretch. I take statements at their face value, I would call it "observing behavior". Reading more into it requires that one reads minds.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Just don't tell the NAACP. Or is it now the NAAPofC?

My Filipina wife is a 'person of color', but not normally what most would call a 'colored person'.

From Wiki, for what it is worth:
_"Colored is a term once widely used in the United States to describe black people (i.e., persons of sub-Saharan African ancestry; members of the "Black race") and Native Americans.[1] It should not be confused with the more recent term people of color, which attempts to describe all "non-white peoples," not just black people...

Today it is generally no longer regarded as a politically correct term. However, even that is debatable, due to its continued accepted usage, most notably its use in the acronym NAACP. Carla Sims, communications director for the NAACP in Washington, D.C., said "The term 'colored' is not derogatory, [the NAACP] chose the word 'colored' because it was the most positive description commonly used at that time. It's outdated and antiquated but not offensive." [3]

In other English-speaking countries, the term has varied meanings...In British usage the term can refer to those of Asian, Middle-Eastern or African descent and is not usually considered derogatory, though more accurate terms are preferable (particularly if referring to a single ethnicity)."
_​Colored - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I will admit, however, that I haven't heard the term used since I was a kid, other than by bigots - thus it makes me uncomfortable.


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## sassaflash (Mar 4, 2012)

Race & Politics aren't great topics for any forum lol


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Now if I could find an African American in this part of the world, I'd invite him - or her - to come along and meet my mare, who I am pretty sure would stick her nose in the visitor's pocket to see if there were any treats in it. If there were treats, she'd stay around - if there weren't , she'd wander off. Just like she would with me.


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## Tianimalz (Jan 6, 2009)

Barry Godden said:


> Now if I could find an African American in this part of the world, I'd invite him - or her - to come along and meet my mare, who I am pretty sure would stick her nose in the visitor's pocket to see if there were any treats in it. If there were treats, she'd stay around - if there weren't , she'd wander off. Just like she would with me.


So would mine; doesn't mean everyone's would :wink:


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

One thing I WILL tell you....a person's "smell" is highly influenced by their diet. People who eat a vegetarian diet smell very differently (even to humans with their bad sniffers) than, say, people who eat a heavily fishy diet. Europeans/Americans eat a meat heavy diet and have a very different smell, that some people in my travels claim to find unpleasant. 

Different cultural groups tend to have common diet preferences, though not across the board. These cultural diet preferences may tend to lend members of this common group to have a different "smell" to animals with a very sophisticated olfactory sense. Horses have a great sense of smell.

So, getting back to the matter of equine preferences....if a horse is always around a certain cultural group, they become used to that common "smell", possibly. There just might be a change in their attitude when confronted by people with a different "smell". 

I do not think of this as a racial issue at all. many people of different races just might participate in different diets. I love Asian food. If that was all I ate, I suspect that I would have a smell that might reflect that diet.

I suspect the biggest culprit is diet, not race. I have traveled widely in many countries, including many "third world countries". I do notice subtle differences, even with my ineffective schnoz.


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## Country Woman (Dec 14, 2011)

off topic 
my cat does not like my mother in law 
he hides when she came over 
he is not sure of her because she is un stable


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

Lots of nifty horse eye information on this thread. 

Horses can see colors to a certain degree according to the information. I can discern different colors of persons on a black and white film....so I guess I have decent eye cones. 

That being said - my gelding Biscuit is terrified of black/dark men I recently found out. And it is only black/dark men. He was harshly trained by a black man. Biscuit's owner never treated him bad though but trainer had the horse for more than a year and would pick him up to take him to rodeos. I know the black man - I rode with him once - he was actually riding Biscuit on that ride which was a year before I bought the horse. He lived near my cousin and we all knew that he treated his horses with a very harsh hand, harsh bits, etc. My cousin saw Biscuit tied so tight one day with his forehead straight into a big post - the horse had blood all over his head and a huge gash in it that my cousin is always astonished that it didn't leave a huge scar.

When I brought Biscuit home he was extremely head shy and would literally "freeze" and tremble violently. Cousin's hubby rode Biscuit after owner got him back from the trainer. He said the horse had had all of his spirit broke out of him. This horse has an innately gentle disposition so that was really unnecessary. It took about 8 months of good treatment for Biscuit to not freeze up, tremble, etc.

The barn has two Mexican men that take care of everything at the ranch. They are wonderful men and I love them both to pieces. Biscuit stands at the gate of his paddock waiting for them to bring his feed in the morning. 
He is fine with them as long as they DON"T try to catch him. He ran from them one day like a crazy horse when they needed to move him out of the paddock to repair the water lines. The barn manager had to go get him and he instantly went to her. She told them he had been treated badly by a black man and to the horse they were "dark".

I didn't think too much of it until a few weeks later I took Biscuit to the vet for his teeth to be floated and his sheath cleaned. Last year he was fine with it - this year he went banana's. They had to put a bar behind his butt in the chute. I couldn't believe he was acting like an idiot with Doc and Emanuel, his helper. Later that evening when he was still drugged Jamie (ranch hand) tried to pet him and he jerked back and moved off so Jamie couldn't touch him. When my husband told me that I then knew why Biscuit had such a fit at the vet's. Emanuel was holding his head for Doc and he is a very dark complected man. 

I had noticed during the summer every time we rode at the local park he would get really nervous and upset when some of the water department guys would come by. We park right in front of their office. Some of the men are black. They were always so nice to us and asked us about the horses so Biscuit could see them and hear them. He was a nervous wreck til we got in the woods and I never could figure out why he was that way at this one particular riding spot. 

Biscuit is fine with everyone else and I know that Edgar and Jamie (ranch hands) have never been anything but wonderful to this horse. They bring his feed - they are his best friends UNLESS they try to get close to him. 

Horses aren't human but they are super sensitive and smart animals. They know who they like and who they don't and who they trust and who they don't.

Oh...and yeah, it is just dark MEN. Last year a young girl was at the park wanting to sit on a horse for her senior pictures. I let her sit on Biscuit and he was just fine with her...she was black. He was a doll and stood there so patiently while she took several pictures. 

Sorry for the novel...this is just my experience with my own horse and I believe it was simply because he was mistreated. :-(


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

I think it is related to my gelding's hatred for children using a trampoline. The first time he saw that, he sunk his feet into the ground, raised his head WAY back, and stared - for 20 minutes. That was how long it took for me to get him to walk away from the sight on a lead line. With time, he's gotten over his 'prejudice'. 

I'm still working my my bigoted mare, who find the large green trashcans in the neighborhood highly suspicious, at the least. With time, she is beginning to accept the idea of green trashcans 'living' in her neighborhood...but I hate to think of what she would say if she saw a green trashcan driving an expensive car. She would probably call the cops! 

"Officer, some of my best friends are green trashcans, but I just saw...."


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

Did the op just vanish


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

hahahaha wow
how did the thread turn into this? I think we've strayed from the topic far enough.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

Country Woman said:


> off topic
> my cat does not like my mother in law
> he hides when she came over
> he is not sure of her because she is un stable


That's funny! Don't know though if I should laugh or cry with you.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

hoopla said:


> Did the op just vanish


No, he likes to start threads like this and watch. :-|


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Touching back on the original topic, I think that to suggest that a horse is biased against someone because of their skin colour from one event is just plain silly. For all you know, the guy works at an abattoir and the horse was just smelling the miasma of animal death that hangs on him. Or that the horse didn't really appreciate the coolness of his dance moves. 

Or maybe the horse picked up on cues caused by the prejudices of the owner and the farrier and reacted to that?


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

This thread makes me very uncomfortable.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

Agreed, farmpony....


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

actually now that i think about it, one of my mares hates it when people dance near her. She gets so offended. when we were younger my sister randomly danced next to her and the mare gave her the dirtiest look. So of course we had to do some testing "in the name of science". we looked ridiculous dancing in front of her stall but she pinned her ears at us and walked away every time.


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## BaileyJo (Aug 23, 2011)

farmpony84 said:


> This thread makes me very uncomfortable.


Agreed. Not sure what the point of it was anyway besides to see a thread take off. Sorry, but history shows this is the MO of the OP. He likes to start (shall I say it controversial) these kinds of threads.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

hoopla said:


> Did the op just vanish


 
Yes, I think so. He threw a rock at the hornet's nest and then ran. We can either continue to discus the phenomenon that horses do seem to sometime exhibit a bias against/toward certain human varieties. 

OR, we can get all insulted about a discussion that has race as a part of it.

Here's a new twist;

The way that the handler feels about the "visitor" will be evident in their body language. This display of their true feelings may be so subtle that the don't even realize they are projecting their feelings, and another human might not pick up on this. But a horse? they can and do

So, if you fear or hate or are tentative around men, women, dark or light colored variations of the said species, your horse will know it, and mirror you.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

attackships said:


> actually now that i think about it, one of my mares hates it when people dance near her. She gets so offended. when we were younger my sister randomly danced next to her and the mare gave her the dirtiest look. So of course we had to do some testing "in the name of science". we looked ridiculous dancing in front of her stall but she pinned her ears at us and walked away every time.


Thats because we have no rythym.:wink:


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

The OP may very well be working today. It's spring and he's a farrier.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This thread does not need to be insulting. The "phenomenon" described by the OP may or may not have any validity, but we can share our anecdotal experiences without casting insults.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

farmpony84 said:


> This thread makes me very uncomfortable.


Good. it's about time we start having intellingent discussions about race in this country. Our president is half African and if that dolt can get to be president anybody can! If I can be called white then people of african descent can be called black or colored or even *****. I was in a store the other day and my youngest son said something about the appearance of a mexican couple and he said it fairly loud. Something about them being dark and I said "yeah they're mexican but they're just like us". My wife was mortified that I called them mexicans. I'm pretty sure they know where they were born and are not ashamed of it. 

By the way I knew they were mexican because I knew the man.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

The term 'colored' may not be the most polite in the world to refer to a person..


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

It shouldn't be an uncomfortable subject....that is what causes tension....people should talk about it and not feel awkward.

I have had a couple beers this afternoon, but I will tell a little story that may or may not be relevant.
A couple years ago our boss sent us to Reno for an all expenses paid weekend for the Western Livestock Video Sale to watch the calves sell. Yep, send a bunch of desert ranch cowboys that haven't been to a big town for a while...oh buddy. We went bar/casino hopping and ended up partying and hanging out with some downtown Reno, never seen a horse,let a lone seen an *** end of a cow "colored" people. And we had a blast! We thrashed and teased each other about every sterotypical thing on both sides of the fence. No one got offended because no one was uncomfortable about talking about it or teasing each other about it. 
So why is it a big deal? Because everyone is so worried about being PC....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I think it's as simple as this horse saw something he doesn't usually see and it freaked him out. How many of us have horses that will walk calmly past a patio umbrella when it's closed, but then freak out at that same umbrella when it's open? 

Sure the OP used what some of us would deem an outdated term, and might have been in the mood to poke the sleeping bear with the stick, but that same horse could have freaked out to a llama or a garbage can and nobody would be flipping out about discussing it. 

I work in NYC. I see 15 different nationalities and hear 12 different languages every day just walking from the parking garage to my office. At the comedy clubs, nobody is spared and everyone has a good time embracing the differences. 

I really wish this walking on egg shells part of our culture would end and we could go back to opening discussing our differences without being labeled.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Haha. When my kids were little we moved to a new area that had more "ethnis diversity" than where we were from. I took the kids to the mall one day, and my daughter, who was about 3 at the time, saw a black family and loudly asked them "Are you the Cosbys?" They cracked up! I was, of course, mortified, but learned to get used to it, especially with this child who also asked a lady behind me in the grocery one day if she had a V____a like mommy.......THankfully they are grown, and she is now responsible for her own remarks. lol


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> The term 'colored' may not be the most polite in the world to refer to a person..


Every person has a skin color so technically everyone is colored.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

MyBoyPuck said:


> I think it's as simple as this horse saw something he doesn't usually see and it freaked him out. How many of us have horses that will walk calmly past a patio umbrella when it's closed, but then freak out at that same umbrella when it's open?
> 
> Sure the OP used what some of us would deem an outdated term, and might have been in the mood to poke the sleeping bear with the stick, but that same horse could have freaked out to a llama or a garbage can and nobody would be flipping out about discussing it.
> 
> ...


Do you feel like you have walked into a foreign land when you go into stores? Well, I sure do! There are times I am the only one who speaks the native language of the USA!


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

I can tell people how to get to the Empire State Building in several languages!


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## arrowsaway (Aug 31, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> This thread does not need to be insulting. The "phenomenon" described by the OP may or may not have any validity, but we can share our anecdotal experiences without casting insults.



If only people were able to discuss such topics without casting insults...
But then, this thread never would've taken off the way it did.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

For me, the uncomfortable part of this is not derived from the topic itself, which I feel comfortable talking about. The queasy factor comes from some of the individual posts on this thread. A few, I believe, have been removed.


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## attackships (Jan 12, 2012)

i think this thread hardly constitutes as an intelligent discussion of race but whatever. this thread went from a horse that didn't like a "colored man" to determining which countries contain sexually attractive women. 

personally, I'm uncomfortable because i dont know how to say what i want to say without seeming like i'm over-reacting or singling people out haha.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Chiilaa said:


> ...Or maybe the horse picked up on cues caused by the prejudices of the owner and the farrier and reacted to that?


The possibilities are almost endless. My Appy was loaned to a ranch in Colorado for a few months before coming to us. When he was returned to the owner (an old friend with a ranch in Utah), he had spur holes in each side. Not scratches, but holes about 2" in diameter. As the picture shows, the scratched area was bigger.

For several years after that, he was afraid of...cowboy hats. Not men. Not big men. Not women. No skin color involved, or owner prejudice. For whatever reason, he had decided it was the COWBOY HAT that made a person mean. It took about 2 years to get him past that.

A few months after he arrived - the holes were healing, but they were NOT created by cowboy HATS:










BTW - just finished a book called "Dean & Me: A Love Story" by Jerry Lewis. It is about their days as one of the biggest hits in America, and the Italian & Jew jokes were continuous between them. It seems to me that is healthier than if they had been afraid to admit one was Italian & one Jewish.

Amazon.com: Dean and Me: (A Love Story) (9780767920872): Jerry Lewis, James Kaplan: Books


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

This thread wasnt' really supposed to be a discussion about race, in general.

If you really want to have a discussion about race, you should be sure to have all parts of the equation present, so it's not too one sided.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

franknbeans said:


> Do you feel like you have walked into a foreign land when you go into stores? Well, I sure do! There are times I am the only one who speaks the native language of the USA!


 
OH my gosh! That would be a great topic for another thread! There are many immigrants where I live! Rare to hear English in some places.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

equiniphile said:


> For me, the uncomfortable part of this is not derived from the topic itself, which I feel comfortable talking about. The queasy factor comes from some of the individual posts on this thread. A few, I believe, have been removed.


Oh Lordy...my response about posting a bikini picture to Hooplas comment about oversized Americans was just supposed to make him realize that not all American women are obese.....

What is the difference really? Whether it be skin colors or weight?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

tempest said:


> Every person has a skin color so technically everyone is colored.


Yes, but that term itself is paired with a few connotations. It is not PC and it is viewed as offensive because it was a term used to degrade black people. I'm not stating any opinions, just pointing out a few things.


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## tempest (Jan 26, 2009)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> Yes, but that term itself is paired with a few connotations. It is not PC and it is viewed as offensive because it was a term used to degrade black people. I'm not stating any opinions, just pointing out a few things.


I am well aware of this fact. However, political correctness has crossed the line of trying not to insult anyone to insulting many people. But this is a topic for a completely different thread.


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## FirstLightFarm (Jan 20, 2012)

I call absolute BS on the the OP's story. What tripe.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Damit I went to shoe a few horses and come back and we're talking about politics, big macs, and what the correct term to call a black man is. 

Doesn't really matter if the terms I use are accepted here. The words I use are accepted by ******** here where I live. I grew up playing ball with them, rooming with them, and getting pulled over every time I rode in a vehicle with them. Just because I use the name Amazin Caucasian, that just means I take pride in being who I am. Just like blacks do. I'm probably one of the most non-racist people here. Even still I have a good friend named Sonny that's black. And I can guarantee he's more country than any white person I know, including me. He rides horses and operates Bobcats. He went with me in my dump truck to get some sand for my arena a couple months ago. I was listening to black music and his phone rang. Guess what his ringtone was.....Colt Ford. So we both laughed at the irony that I listen to black music and he listens to white country music. 

What's funny is, blacks and other minorities think it's funny that we're so scared to offend them. They think it's funny how we squirm when certain words are used. Whites are the most uptight people as far as racial issues. Caucasians are too worried we're going to offend someone. Don't worry about it, just don't walk up bunch of minorities hollering racial names. When me and my wife got together, she snapped at me for asking a fella if he was Mexican. I just asked if he was Mexican. Not like I said "Are you a **** Mexican?". I just said, "Are you Mexican?" How exactly am I supposed to ask? People get suspicious if you seem super careful about offending them. I've always treated them with respect, And don't act squirrely


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I'm not scared about offending people, I just said it wasn't politically correct!


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm hispanic.

I'm not Mexican. You wouldn't think I'm hispanic if you met me and I didn't tell you. I don't look like what 95% of anglos think a hispanic looks like. You would think I'm Italian, and I happen to have an Italian surname.

I am most at ease not around my "own kind" but with ******** from the Great Plains.

I miss Kansas.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

Amen AC...the point I was trying to make with my lame story...lol...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> I'm not scared about offending people, I just said it wasn't politically correct!


We know it isn't. And we reject political correctness. It is corrosive and drives a wedge between us all.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

I agree mildot
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> ...It is not PC and it is viewed as offensive because it was a term used to degrade black people...


That would come as a surprise to the NAACP. Over time, the connotations with a word can change. I'm all in favor of being polite, but I can't keep up with the constantly changing ground under me. I'd love it if Yahoo or someone would maintain a website that would tell me what, today, I can say without giving someone somewhere offense.

If I want to give offense, I usually toss in enough four-letter words to leave no doubt. Beyond that, I believe that I shouldn't take offense where none is meant, and others should treat me the same.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I also didn't say any opinion, so no bashing for pointing something out. 

People are too fast to bite another's neck and to accuse or be offended by something, that's why this post is considered so 'controversial'. People need to chill.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

My son is a Filipino. We adopted him. But he LOOKS like the stereotype of a Mexican. It drives him nuts when people just start talking to him in Spanish.

He drives trucks. Yesterday, one guy asked him 3 times if he spoke English. He finally replied, "I returned from a deployment to Afghanistan in December...and my fists speak English. Is that good enough?"


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

mildot said:


> I'm hispanic.
> 
> I'm not Mexican. You wouldn't think I'm hispanic if you met me and I didn't tell you. I don't look like what 95% of anglos think a hispanic looks like. You would think I'm Italian, and I happen to have an Italian surname.
> 
> ...


 I am of German / Norwegian decent and cowboyed....people just assume I drink a lot and partake in occasional fist fights...oh nevermind...lol...**** stereotypes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I do not like to see prejudices or PC suppress perfectly legitamate observations that can further knowledge. Horses are extremely intelligent. I am sure the study of horses' reaction to different people could provide valuable info, yet would NOT be allowed b/c their are self appointed PC police everywhere. For example, people have a "prejudice" against tobacco, and mistakenly (b/c of prejudice) fault nicotine for tobacco's illeffects. The fact that tobacco is highly addicting, along w other things, means it would be extremely beneficial to medical science to fully understand of the biochemical pathways of nicotine, yet the "prejudice" against tobacco has slowed that research....almost to a crawl. The word "enlightened" doesn't come to mind when I see PC police on patrol.


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

I said a word wasn't considered PC, not the subject of the post..


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

LoveTheSaddlebreds said:


> I said a word wasn't considered PC, not the subject of the post..


Oh, well, I wasn't responding to your post. I meant it - in general. But, tell me the word so I can be sure to disprove its magical qualites by using it! Sorry, but like mildot said, PC is corrosive. It tends to make some people "more equal" and it is divisive.


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

kevinshorses said:


> Good. it's about time we start having intellingent discussions about race in this country. Our president is half African and if that dolt can get to be president anybody can!


So, just feeling the need to point out, also, that the president is half white and regardless I still don't like him.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

I posted, but it didn't show up. I went shoeing and came back, and we're talking about Big Macs, politics, and what we're supposed to call blacks? 

People we don't have to be so careful about what we say. They don't care as long as it's not racist. Whites are the ones that are uptight. Minorities think it's funny how scared we are to offend them. 

My friend Sonny went with me to haul sand for my arena a couple months ago. I was listening to black music and his ringtone was country. We thought it was ironic (and funny). He's black as can be but I promise he's more country than I am. Rides horses and can run a Bobcat as good as anybody. That's how alot of blacks are around here. There's a couple good gaited trainers around fairly close that are black, but I don't know them personally. 

We're pretty integrated. We played ball in school and work together. 

Apparently because I use the name AmazinCaucasian, I'm racist? I'm proud of what I am just like blacks are. No more, no less


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

I kinda scanned through real quick so sorry if I repeat. I have a book called Equine Behavior: A Guide for Veterinarians and Equine Scientists by Paul McGreevy. I paid enough for it...I might as well share/use it LOL

Acccording to it...horses are dichromats and "that they struggle to discriminate between green and grays of similar brightness" It says with this particular study they changed the brightness of each color. "The horses were able to distinguish red and blue across the range of luminance differences but were unable to distinguish green and yellow from gray at the lower end of the scale, indicating that the horses were not seeing these colors well, if at all."

There was also a study with horses jumping fences. More horses knocked rails that were of solid light or dark colors while more cleared rails with two contrasting colors. 

My professor who is a big trail horse judge said more horses hit "earth tone" rails versus white ones since the earth tones blend into the ground.

Then again...this book says it also seems to depend on the horse. As with some cases, one horse can see yellow and not red while one can see red and not yellow.

So who knows! Haha.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Bridgertrot said:


> I kinda scanned through real quick so sorry if I repeat. I have a book called Equine Behavior: A Guide for Veterinarians and Equine Scientists by Paul McGreevy. I paid enough for it...I might as well share/use it LOL
> 
> Acccording to it...horses are dichromats and "that they struggle to discriminate between green and grays of similar brightness" It says with this particular study they changed the brightness of each color. "The horses were able to distinguish red and blue across the range of luminance differences but were unable to distinguish green and yellow from gray at the lower end of the scale, indicating that the horses were not seeing these colors well, if at all."
> 
> ...


Hmm. That is interesting, thanks for posting. Were the test methods applied to humans as well? For example, do human athletes hurdling toward a jump clear bars the same color as the environment (earthtone) as well as they do bars w two contrasting colors? Just curiouse. It would seem to lend more credibility to the test method, imho.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Apparently because I use the name AmazinCaucasian, I'm racist? I'm proud of what I am just like blacks are. No more, no less


Well, I don't find the AmazinC name racist or offensive....but I think the "ugly horse" thing really shows your true colors.


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## Bridgertrot (Dec 2, 2011)

Missy May said:


> Hmm. That is interesting, thanks for posting. Were the test methods applied to humans as well? For example, do human athletes hurdling toward a jump clear bars the same color as the environment (earthtone) as well as they do bars w two contrasting colors? Just curiouse. It would seem to lend more credibility to the test method, imho.


No problem. It's a pretty interesting book. Anything related to behavior it talks about. I don't think I'll sell it back just because it's so interesting.

Don't think it was applied to humans as this book is just horses only. It covers every other aspect of vison too like depth perception, distance, acuity, etc.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

Missy May said:


> Well, I don't find the AmazinC name racist or offensive....but I think the "ugly horse" thing really shows your true colors.


please elaborate


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> please elaborate


Well, one shouldn't judge fellow creatures by their looks. And, I was being sarcastic.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Bridgertrot said:


> No problem. It's a pretty interesting book. Anything related to behavior it talks about. I don't think I'll sell it back just because it's so interesting.
> 
> Don't think it was applied to humans as this book is just horses only. It covers every other aspect of vison too like depth perception, distance, acuity, etc.


It sounds very interesting. If I could read, I might check it out.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I always find it odd that white people are called "Caucasian". I mean, it's some far , far away range of mountains on the border of Europe and Asia. How'd that ever get applied to people of what is most European descent? 

I like to write "Euro-American" on the race surveys. Sounds so much classier. 
Or, I could write "Heinz 57 mutt", too, and that would describe me as well.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

"Crossbred" would describe me


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

not "grade"?
or something like a labradoodle? (in terms of designer dog breeds)


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

I never much liked being called a "howlie" by my Hawaiian friends, but...at least they called me! lol


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## Susan Crumrine (Oct 5, 2009)

sassaflash said:


> LOL Lots of black people use that term! Heck, it's even on shampoo bottles.. for "Women of Color".
> Face it, every term out there is going to be considered offensive to somebody. Technically using the term "African American" is inappropriate as well because many Blacks aren't of (recent) African decent!
> 
> Technically speaking we're all from Africa!


This is a little off topic but so cute I had to share.

My husband came home from the drugstore quite proud one day.

Shampoo was on the list. He bought a bottle for women of color.

He was proud because he thought he picked out a shampoo for women

who color their hair....:lol:


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I always find it odd that white people are called "Caucasian". I mean, it's some far , far away range of mountains on the border of Europe and Asia. How'd that ever get applied to people of what is most European descent?


Caucasian race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once again, what is a useful term to describe an existing racial phenotype gets corrupted in the United States into a term of racial hatred.

When will we ever learn?


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm thinking the OP most likely uses the word as here:

Urban Dictionary: caucasian

I somehow doubt his passport indicates he's born and bred and entitled to residency in the Caucasus


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I bet the OP uses it because it rhymes with Amazin'!


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I had an interesting riding lesson one day. The gelding I was riding had lived a very sheltered life (my family bred/raised/trained him so we intimately knew his whole life since he first hit the ground). There were many things he had not seen before, and a black and white pinto was on the list (actually, he had never had any exposure to a pinto of any color nor had he ever seen a cow). So, there happens to be a black and white pinto that had a stall and run by the arena. We were riding in this arena with no problems, until the monster left the barn stall and was visible. He was totally freaked out, would not get anywhere near that horse of a different color and would not take his attention off the scary monster. He had no problems seeing the other solid horses coming in and out of their stalls/runs. He had no bad experience to associate with a pinto of any color (or even a cow). He was not responding to me or my prejudices against loudly colored pintos. He later got over his fears when he began to compete in 4-H and when my mom bought a black and white pinto mare years after he saw that they were just other horses. 

I see no reason why a horse might not react to seeing a person of a different color for the first time. Only based on color tone and nothing else. I am sure that most horses don't freak out when they see a different color horse for the first time ever (but mine did LOL). 

This same gelding I was riding that was freaked out for most of my riding lesson, well his mother also had a horse prejudice. If she saw a black horse, any black horse, she believed without a doubt that they were a well endowed stallion and she was going to show off to attract their attention. She had never been pastured with a black, but had been bred twice to a black QH stallion. This behavior towards blacks bugged my sister to no end (showing in 4-H was a pain) and so she went stud hunting. Found an inexpensive breeder to breed her mare to, they owned two studs, one grey and one black. The black was a better looking stallion, but she couldn't continue her mare's prejudice, so she bred to the grey. The mare's black prejudice was gone, and my sister no longer had a nutcase mare when she saw a black horse. 

Side note: I have had complete strangers from Russia or the Ukraine to to talk to me in the native language. Even when I tell them that I have no idea what they are saying, they usually keep trying to talk to me in a language other than english (some boys my age even laughed and continue to talk talk in a foreign language)... Apparently my Scandinavian (Norwegian and Icelandic), German, and Irish heritage results in looking like I speak English as a second language instead of my only language? Even teachers I had in high school thought I was yet another immigrant from Russia or the Ukraine. Probably didn't help that I have a Minnesota accent and had just moved to Spokane, Washington where there was a large immigrant population. But still, my first name is German (I believe) and my last name was Irish, yet based on looks and accented voice even the teachers thought I spoke Russian. LOL! I took it in humor, but still, it really throws you off when someone wants you to translate for them in a store. Um, yeah, sorry, only understand one language and only a few words/phrases of other languages


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

I don't know what goes through a horse's mind when it encounters a person who looks different than others it's used to. So who know really? Anyways, just wanted to say Caucasian reminds of a shoe type. Hey, you got a size 9 in the caucasians?


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

waresbear said:


> I don't know what goes through a horse's mind when it encounters a person who looks different than others it's used to. So who know really? Anyways, just wanted to say Caucasian reminds of a shoe type. Hey, you got a size 9 in the caucasians?


Silly girl...it's the Indians that wore caucasians...:think:


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

You mean the "native Americans"........:wink:


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

franknbeans said:


> You mean the "native Americans"........:wink:


No, I mean Indians. I am 1/4 "Native American" and am one of those that prefers the term Indian. I am an American without hyphens or a need to define my heritage, and am proud of it...:wink:


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

In Canada, the politically correct term is "First Nations People".


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, I am thankful my horses can see, period. And, I am equally as thankful that I can see as well. It would be sad to loose your sight to the point that when you looked out the window you couldn't discern people from pigs or read the urban dictionary anymore.


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

waresbear said:


> In Canada, the politically correct term is "First Nations People".


Yeah, that term came up on another board recently. I had never heard of that term before. I don't care for it that much, but it is better than "Native American"...at least it makes sense, as modern Indians arose at least partly from Paleoindians, which were the first humans to migrate here. All men migrated to this country - man did not originate in this hemisphere, and is a (relative) latecomer here, so no man is "native", but the Indians were at least first. Funny thing is a lot of people think people are native to North America and horses aren't, when it is actually just the opposite. Man migrated here, but horses evolved here, so are truly native, even though they became extinct here till they were reintroduced. Just my play on things...


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

It's not racist if it's true...? :rofl:

[fyi it's impossible for me to be rascist. My bloodline is mutt enough that not even the animal shelter would take me :lol:]


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## Ladytrails (Jul 28, 2010)

I personally think the horse was upset because the African-American gentleman was jumping/dancing around in what would have appeared to be shadows in the arena. An indoor arena generally has light and dark spots, depending on the doors and windows being open or shut. Anyone hopping around would definitely catch the horse's attention, and if he was spinning, he wouldn't be able to get a good look at the gentleman. Finally, this is unpredictable behavior from a 'human' in the horse's experience - so he is on edge and watching and half spooking in anticipation of the next dancing outbreak. If anything to do with the color of the man's skin, I think it was just a matter of not being able to see facial expressions as well in the dimmer light. 

If this had been a small child hopping and dancing around, waving arms, etc. -- how many of us would have simply asked the child to stand still and not squeal with delight because we didn't want to scare the horsey?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Except that the OP said that the fellow danced in joy when watching the horse spin, and that the horse exhibited this odd behavior just upon seeing this new person, before the fellow "danced". 
However, something like dancing around could certainly upset a sensitive horse. I wonder what our horses would do if I dance around them? Probably laugh!


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## Faceman (Nov 29, 2007)

Different is different, and horses just react to things that are different. One of the funniest things I have ever seen was when my son's dog Stoney, since passed away, had a cancer removed and had to wear one of those big plastic cones. Now he crossed the pasture from my son's place to my place all the time, and the horses knew him perfectly well and never paid any attention to him. But when he went under the fence into the pasture with that cone on, the horses went ballistic. After snorting and prancing around for a couple of minutes they all took out after him when he was half way across, and I mean they were serious. He ran under the fence barely ahead of them, and I never saw that dog run that fast before. I wish I had a video of that day, and still laugh when I think about it...


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

tinyliny said:


> Except that the OP said that the fellow danced in joy when watching the horse spin, and that the horse exhibited this odd behavior just upon seeing this new person, before the fellow "danced".
> However, something like dancing around could certainly upset a sensitive horse. I wonder what our horses would do if I dance around them? Probably laugh!


My horses would either a) die of embarrassment or b) Parasite onto someone else and pretend I wasn't their momma.

Kids these days. pfft.


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

DancingArabian said:


> I've also seen horses scared of Paint/Pinto horses.



So have I. Let's face it, horses are pretty much programed to be afraid of anything new. We have managed to dampen that instinct but it's still there.


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

When a barn I used to board at acquired a mini Shetland to use in their equine assisted therapy program, quite a few of the "normal" horses went nuts every time they saw it, at least until they got used to it. In fairness, it really did look a little bit weird, a sausage with legs. Imagine the characteristics of Shetland, only exaggerated. 

The other horses all said, "Whatever has happened to that horse, I don't want it to happen to me!"


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## LoveTheSaddlebreds (Jul 9, 2009)

My horse is afraid of Drafts with excessive feathers and miniature horses. As well as meeting strange horses/people on a trail.


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## AmazinCaucasian (Dec 10, 2010)

My horse is scared of guys in Big Bird costumes. I told the story on another thread, it's good


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

Lexiie said:


> I'm not sure about the other two, but horses can't see red


 Haha I beg to differ my old mustang might have been an odd case but ANYTHING red tripped him out shirts,buckets,backpacks,shoes,halters,saddle pads haha if it was another color he could care less if it was red you wouldn't get it near him no matter how much you tried lol. He was a goofy boy.


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

Could it have to do with this man's body type or demeanor? Mudpie is afraid of men with a few certain body types, heights, and demeanors (usually combined) and also cowboy hats. Luckily, I know exactly who hurt him, so I can take appropriate precautions. Skin color might be a factor here, if an African American man hurt or scared him at one point in his life.


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## BarrelracingArabian (Mar 31, 2010)

mudpie might be on to something, my mustang wouldn't go near men with baseball caps due to previous abuse maybe the man had some sort of 'hidden' behavior/attitude or item of clothing that the horse could sense/see that would seem like nothing.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

On the color note, I think that they can differentiate between colors but maybe not see them the same way we do.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

kevinshorses said:


> Good. it's about time we start having intellingent discussions about race in this country. Our president is half African and if that dolt can get to be president anybody can! If I can be called white then people of african descent can be called black or colored or even *****. I was in a store the other day and my youngest son said something about the appearance of a mexican couple and he said it fairly loud. Something about them being dark and I said "yeah they're mexican but they're just like us". My wife was mortified that I called them mexicans. I'm pretty sure they know where they were born and are not ashamed of it.
> 
> By the way I knew they were mexican because I knew the man.


African American is one term that I never understood. If you are an American, you are an American. When I fill out any form that has a box to check, My choice is either Caucasion, or White. It is never English, Irish, Scottish, German, Pottawatamee Sioux American. Why? Because I'm an American.

America is a mixing pot. It's a giant casserole filled with people from all over the world, every color, race, and religion. I wonder what a person who has a white/black mother and a hispanic/american indian father would put in the box? (and yes - I know that I typed American Indian.)

As for the Mexicans... How do you know they were born in Mexico? They could have been born in NY for all we know... There are Spanish towns all over American. Most of the residence are Americans be it via naturalization number or birth.

Ok... I'm off my pedastool and my speak is over. Apoligies to anyone I may have offended, although... I meant what I said.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

*Paleface looks in the mirror.*


This thread has given me a thought.
My mare has been misbehaving of late and part of that naughty behaviour has been to do with a heightened sense of fear. I wonder if all along it has been my physogg which has frightened her? After all we do get very close when I rub my beard with her whiskers and blow up her nose.

So I’ve just gone and looked in the mirror. 

Horror! That can’t possible be me looking back. That’s an old man. 
I’ve tried winking and I am sorry to say the apparition in the mirror winked back. 
I suppose it could be me or could it be my Grandfather looking on from the after world? I wonder if Pops is trying to make contact?

The skin is a bit of a slodgy pink with a white and yellow tinge. 
There’s a spot here and there and a few moles. 
The beard is a rough mix of largely grey and black short hairs More of a fuzz I suppose. 
There are a fair share of wrinkles, some quite deep. 
Then there’s that cavernous mouth with a crinkled tongue lurking behind. 

As for those teeth ……gawd,…… all that can be politely said is that at least they don’t come out and fit into a glass by the side of the bed. 

But, my oh my, is that skin soft to touch, it feels like a baby’s bum. (Errr ; When did I last feel a baby‘s bum?? ). How old can ‘baby’ be I wonder or on second thought, am I confusing ‘baby’ with ‘babe‘?

I wonder, if push came to shove, could I call myself: ‘white’? 
No, not in all honesty really, there’s too much yellow and then there’s those rosie cheeks. 
On the other hand, I suppose I could be called a: ‘pale face‘. 
Maybe I am what’s known as: 'a honky’. or could that be because undoubtedly I snore? 

As for the hair on top, well it has all gone - except for the occasional thin long whispey strand sprouting in the oddest of places. No need for smellie shampoo on this pate, that’s for sure.

It’s no use, think the only thing for me to do is to go and ask my mare. Apparently she can read the colour of faces. 
I wonder what she might call me?


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

farmpony84 said:


> African American is one term that I never understood. If you are an American, you are an American. When I fill out any form that has a box to check, My choice is either Caucasion, or White. It is never English, Irish, Scottish, German, Pottawatamee Sioux American. Why? Because I'm an American.
> 
> America is a mixing pot. It's a giant casserole filled with people from all over the world, every color, race, and religion. I wonder what a person who has a white/black mother and a hispanic/american indian father would put in the box? (and yes - I know that I typed American Indian.)
> 
> ...


I agree, no English hyphen, Irish, and so on?? Last I checked Spain was in Europe. Hispanic is a culture, not a race. So, no other european derived "culture" is worthy of a hyphen? I have a lot of hispanic friends, and have run into some that think it is a race!! There is the "why" of it -divide and conquer.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Missy May said:


> I agree, no English hyphen, Irish, and so on?? Last I checked Spain was in Europe. Hispanic is a culture, not a race. So, no other european derived "culture" is worthy of a hyphen? I have a lot of hispanic friends, and have run into some that think it is a race!! There is the "why" of it -divide and conquer.


This made me think that maybe my mom should be a Viking American? All that Norwegian blood should count for something. After all, my mom is 3/4 Norwegian and 1/4 Icelandic. Why don't we have Viking Americans or even a more general term, Scandinavian American? I am one of those for sure :lol:

Oh, and in history, the Irish were treated poorly as immigrants, so we should have another box for anyone of Irish descent. What about how anyone from Germany was treated during World War II? Where is there box to show how special they are to be a minority? (my heritages from my dad's side )

How many boxes do we need for race? How about just being an American? Born and bred? I mean, some whites are pasty white while others are light shades of darker skin tones. We are so mixed in skin tones that the differences are getting very hazy. Time to go to simple, but then again, we are experiencing a trend of non genders... :shock: Something that simple is getting complicated, so we are all doomed in a world of politically correct :lol:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I think the reason that black Americans had that long term (African Americans) appended to them was that due to slavery, a very long time in slavery, they were severed from the connection to their cultural history. They were just "blacks", and not having a cultural background to have pride is part of making them feel lost and sererated. It was the Italian Americans, Irish Americans, Mexican American thingy that came first. Then , black people who were trying to recreate the cultural identity that was wiped away, came up with the term "Afro American", which then became "African Americans". They didn't start that hyphenated thingy, but it has helped, I assume, with Blacks in America to see where they and their ancestors came from.
For now, it's needed, I think.
But someday, I hope it won't be so.

If black people had not been excluded from so much , as "Americans", they would not have felt the need to create a special place. They would never question their place as plain old Americans, as most white people don't question that.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

SunnyDraco said:


> This made me think that maybe my mom should be a Viking American? All that Norwegian blood should count for something. After all, my mom is 3/4 Norwegian and 1/4 Icelandic. Why don't we have Viking Americans or even a more general term, Scandinavian American? I am one of those for sure :lol:
> 
> Oh, and in history, the Irish were treated poorly as immigrants, so we should have another box for anyone of Irish descent. What about how anyone from Germany was treated during World War II? Where is there box to show how special they are to be a minority? (my heritages from my dad's side )
> 
> How many boxes do we need for race? How about just being an American? Born and bred? I mean, some whites are pasty white while others are light shades of darker skin tones. We are so mixed in skin tones that the differences are getting very hazy. Time to go to simple, but then again, we are experiencing a trend of non genders... :shock: Something that simple is getting complicated, so we are all doomed in a world of politically correct :lol:


Wow, I bet you can handle the cold! Oh dred, having said that may cost me my career....stereotyping and all! :lol:
Skip the germs - pooh bah!  But the Irish, I agree, they suffered extreme oppression - even today given that they are so unimportant that in the US history is of zero importance (not mentioned). 
I just write in "american-american" under "other".
Now, now...we are not doomed! Here...have a sip from the eternal well of hope!!


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## mudpie (Jul 15, 2011)

So pretty much, yeah, the horse probably had a bad past experience and was reminded of it! Enough said!

':]

Let's not get off topic! *nervous laugh*


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

AmazinCaucasian said:


> Has anybody ever seen this?


I didn't go through all pages so only responding to the original post. I've seen my cat (that never was afraid of anything) was terrified almost to death when she met one first time in her life. I think the reason is the smell: many African Americans use very specific, strong sprays (with too much of smell even for some people), and the smell is probably much worse for the more sensitive animals.


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## hoopla (Jan 29, 2012)

Yes. Many times thanks. But I don't go round counting different ethnicities.

And incredibly some come over here!


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Then you know that many of them use hairproducts and colognes that are marketed to blacks and are popular pretty much only in those communities. I knew a black woman that used hair straightener product of some kind but I could smell that the moment I walked through the door. It wasn't unpleasant but there are **** few white or hispanic women that need to use something like that to straighten thier hair.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

hoopla said:


> stereotype much!?


Nope. And many African American ladies in fact dress up very nicely. Is it also a racist statement? Or stereotype? And BTW, all native Indians I've met have dark hairs and ladies like to wear Indian-kind jewerly. And in many offices people have to wear suits. I bet those are very racist statements too.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Horses and dogs that are unfamiliar with a particular race's odor will often react in a fearful manner.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

Saddlebag said:


> Horses and dogs that are unfamiliar with a particular race's odor will often react in a fearful manner.


 
Except in England!


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

As to the smell thing, we ALL have different smells. My friend's dog hides from me when I visit if I've been in the barn. If I haven't he is in my lap. He has an aversion to my eau d'equine.


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## kitten_Val (Apr 25, 2007)

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> As to the smell thing, we ALL have different smells.


I've read an interesting article (it was while back though) on how often animals use the smell to distinguish one person from another (not just appearance or the cloth). I think (I may be wrong, as I don't remember for sure) the elephants were really good about it. BTW, doesn't matter what cloth I put on (whether it's a new strange looking bright yellow rain coat or my usual barn coat) I never had an issue with my horses not recognizing me.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

I imagine a horse can descriminate between colors and shades there of as well as a person. For example, I once worked w a black man that, after his first child was born, he told me on several occasions bursting w pride that his_ new born_ baby was bright. I could see he was really proud of his child and didn't say much other than, "I am sure she is" sort of thing. Finally, after the 10-11th time, I said I was sure she was smart and all, but how can he tell she was bright? He laughed so hard I thought he would pop, and said...no, not "smart" - "bright"...she is "light" (he meant her skin color). I never questioned his eyesight, before or after.


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

tinyliny said:


> I think the reason that black Americans had that long term (African Americans) appended to them was that due to slavery, a very long time in slavery, they were severed from the connection to their cultural history. They were just "blacks", and not having a cultural background to have pride is part of making them feel lost and sererated. It was the Italian Americans, Irish Americans, Mexican American thingy that came first. Then , black people who were trying to recreate the cultural identity that was wiped away, came up with the term "Afro American", which then became "African Americans". They didn't start that hyphenated thingy, but it has helped, I assume, with Blacks in America to see where they and their ancestors came from.
> For now, it's needed, I think.
> But someday, I hope it won't be so.
> 
> If black people had not been excluded from so much , as "Americans", they would not have felt the need to create a special place. They would never question their place as plain old Americans, as most white people don't question that.


My point was not that anyone was "excluded" but that rather than call oneself an American, there is another country attached. Slavery was a big deal yes, It should be never forgotten and should be used as a historical reference so that such a mistreatment should never happen again. That would also be for the way folks were treated through out history. At some point though, the past needs to be laid to rest. Not forgotten, but laid to rest so that we may move forward. As long as someone, anyone, feels the need to rehash and recap, it won't end and it won't go away.

My history is not awesome but it go's something like this:

In the beginning, the American colonists actually used indentured servants. They general used them for 4 - 7 years and then gave them their freedom, that was IF they survived the 4-7 years. In the beginning, the first black Africans were actually treated as indentured servents and were given parcels of land once they had worked their time as servents. Once slavery laws were passed, it become more affordable to buy and sell slaves and to never give them their freedoms. So while it was WRONG by every definition in our world today, back them, it was legal and accepted. Right or wrong, it was what happened during that day and time.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

This unsettling thread won’t die will it? It seems that most of the content has been nothing to do with horses rather has it been to do with prejudice. As a Brit as I read on and I become aware that race presents much more of a problem for our American cousins than it does for we Europeans. 

Mass immigration from Africa and the Indian subcontinent onto my offshore island of less than 100,000 sq miles is for the British largely a twentieth century affair. Back in the nineteenth century and before, the slaves in our society were the poor working classes including the children who worked under appalling conditions in factories and down the coal mines. Dickens wrote stories about them. Those ‘slave’ workers were all ‘white‘. 

Until the end of WW2, Britain was still a class ridden society with all the evils thereof. In the twenty first century some elements of the ’class divide’ persist. Even as a rich man, try getting your son into Eton College. 

In the past , the colour of the face was usually irrelevant because the class status of an individual became apparent simply by the way he or she spoke. We Brits never did suffer official segregation by race. Nowadays pennyless coloured immigrants flood into Britain for economic reasons where they compete with the poor whites for the low paid jobs, accommodation and the Government handouts. It is not so much racism which rises its ugly head but rather economic jealousy in a time of recession.

Getting back to the original post, as far as the issue of whether my mare is frightened by a black male face, I can categorically say she is not and never has been. The simple reason is that in my thirty seven years of riding I have never met with a black male or female horse rider. My mare certainly hasn’t. She is lucky to meet with a male human, let alone a male with a dark coloured face.

In a sense that factor is confirmation of my earlier statement that a class divided society persists in Britain. Over here you must have a significant level of discretionary spending power after heavy taxation to own a horse and that is largely a class and economic issue not a racial one.

So, is my mare frightened of a rich man with a white face? No, she is more frightened of the bogey man behind the hedge which she can hear but cannot see.


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## Lockwood (Nov 8, 2011)

Barry Godden said:


> This unsettling thread won’t die will it? It seems that most of the content has been nothing to do with horses rather has it been to do with prejudice.


I agree. As someone who was and still is interested in the animal's perception (or not) of differences, I wish this thread had never "gone there."
Many of us have to contend with how our horses will react in any given set of circumstances, and whatever a particular horse deems to be spooky or frightening.


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## QOS (Dec 8, 2008)

I don't think the intention of the original post was to be prejudiced. Just that something different had spooked the horse. 

I posted here about my experiences with my own horse that is scared of dark/black men. It isn't that I or Biscuit is prejudiced....Biscuit was badly treated by a black man. He hasn't forgot and he is just a horse - to him - all dark men are the same. 

Unfortunately, around here most of the black cowboys are incredibly harsh with their horses. Their method's of training are to beat a horse into submission and poor old Biscuit had this done to him. We went to a rodeo last year with my cousin and her hubby. The roping began and a black cowboy joined in with his gorgeous paint horse that was "hobby horsing" like a total spastic. The cowboy missed his cow and the horse was coming across the arena (or trying to) with the cowboy yanking with all of his might first with one rein and then the other on a very long shanked bit. It was appalling to see. The horses eyes were rolling around in its head. The man made quiet spectacle and at the end of the arena a man on the ground called him over and spoke to him. It was the judge. The horse was lunging at the bit, frothy with sweat and such a different look/behavior from the other horses. 

I wanted to take the poor horse home with me but it was an eye opener about the way my own horse had behaved when I got him. He would get all excited/nervous in an arena. It took almost a year to stop that behavior or being nervous/walking off before I could get on, taking off at a nervous little jig. 

So, sorry for the novel but I don't think I am prejudiced nor is my horse - but people and animals associate events in their past and it is often hard to overcome the fear that has been instilled of whatever it was that scared them or mistreated them. (could be anything!)


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Maybe QOS's post touches on the real issue. In the ethnicity of an individual lies the likely response attitude to a given situation. 

I shall willing wipe clean the rump of my mare yet I would hesitate to wipe the rump of a human being, indeed I have never done so. That's odd and I accept the criticism. 

My little terrier ***** may sleep on the foot of my bed, yet I am not keen about any human doing the same. Whereas a Muslim will freak out if the dog is let into the house, let alone onto a bed. As a Brit I am confident that most diseases which will afflict a dog won't transfer to me but rabies would. However we don't have rabies in Britain nor do we have nasty blood sucking tics. 

Those diseases breathed out by humans in a London tube can kill me, especially from those ailments which might afflict a visitor from an overseas environments on the other side of the world ie Africa. If I do spot visitors from overseas on the tube, then I will move down the carriage so as to keep my distance from them. The air down those subways is not air conditioned. But likewise, so will I move if I see a commuter sneezing. 

For me what divides humans are the differences in life styles. I do not have a well developed taste for hot spices, so I rarely eat curry. But I will readily eat lightly cooked red meat. I'll even eat it raw. (Along with some mustard and a glass of red wine). That's a practice much to the horror of vegetarians let alone foreigners and abstainers. 

And I never pray before I eat, in fact I don't really pray at all. But I once willingly stopped my car once for an Iraqi to pray by the side of the road.

It is tolerance we need - together with understanding of cultural differences.

I have never really understood the fascination Americans have for what I call beef burgers (Hamburgers are sausages). But heigh-ho, they never got to appreciate English cod did they? I much prefer lightly battered fish and chips dosed with salt and vinegar served in discarded newspaper (complete with newsink).

My horse however is more honest. She'll instantly throw anyone of her back if they tug on the reins connected to her bit. She doesn't care what nationality they are, nor the colour of their skin, she's just concerned that they have soft hands. Come to think of it, I agree with her attitude.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Barry Godden said:


> This unsettling thread won’t die will it? It seems that most of the content has been nothing to do with horses rather has it been to do with prejudice. As a Brit as I read on and I become aware that race presents much more of a problem for our American cousins than it does for we Europeans.
> 
> Mass immigration from Africa and the Indian subcontinent onto my offshore island of less than 100,000 sq miles is for the British largely a twentieth century affair. Back in the nineteenth century and before, the slaves in our society were the poor working classes including the children who worked under appalling conditions in factories and down the coal mines. Dickens wrote stories about them. Those ‘slave’ workers were all ‘white‘.
> 
> ...


I don't think this thread would have ever had "racism" injected into it if it had not been for the PC police. It was a straightforward discussion about horse's reaction to people that appear different. Its an interesting question, for example, what about asian raised horses, how do they, by and large, respond to caucasions and other races? Here in the US we value free speech, and also (like England) have a history of witch hunts.


Public schools in the US fail to point out that slavey has been practiced since pre-historic times. With respect to slavery they tend to concentrated exclusively on that of black slavery in the US. They ignore white slavery (I consider indentured servants - slaves) that occured here or anywhere on the planet. As a result of this, and other factors, poorly educated people believe that slavery was born in the US by racists. In the US, only people with white skin can be labeled as racists. This is divisive, at best, since it threatens equal treatment under the law, and gives some unbridled power. It is not the first time in history that divisive propoganda has been used to gain power, and it probably won't be the last. 

Your horse's response to different socio-economic classes would require that he could read minds (assuming the test method was done property with both "classes" wearing the same attire) - and even then, it wouldn't be 100% accurate. But, it would be an interesting study. I think there is a lot to learn by horses' reactions to different people, but to the poorly educated, that would necessarily make me a racists.

I often see PC police officers using iPads, clearly asian slave labor is of no importants b/c asians are lesser people (using their logic, not mine). But, then, Stalin didn't want the his own measuring stick applied to him, either.

On the horsey side of life....I love your horses color - it is gorgeous!


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## smokeslastspot (Jan 11, 2012)

My horses reacted the same way to one of my dark skinned friend the same way they acted toward me the first time they saw me suited up in my big puffy winter coveralls. I think it just looks different than they are accustomed to so they had to be a bit silly about it until they figured out it was no biggie. 

I used to work at a dog boarding place and a lot of dogs that had light skinned owners would be unsure of dark skinned customers that came in. I always just figured it just looked so different than they were used to that it confused them. After a while they would usually figure out that the people with the different colored skin were nothing to be nervous about.


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## xxBarry Godden (Jul 17, 2009)

Missy, maybe this might be the place to mention that I have recently noticed that as my mare gets older so her originally dark dapple grey face gets lighter. Today, when you espy her from a distance, there is a very light grey face peeking out from under the muddy black neckpiece fitted to her day rug.

Incidentally eleven plus years ago she was born 'bay' -or so her passport says.


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## Missy May (Feb 18, 2012)

Barry Godden said:


> Missy, maybe this might be the place to mention that I have recently noticed that as my mare gets older so her originally dark dapple grey face gets lighter. Today, when you espy her from a distance, there is a very light grey face peeking out from under the muddy black neckpiece fitted to her day rug.
> 
> Incidentally eleven plus years ago she was born 'bay' -or so her passport says.


Really? Wow, she is just truly stunning!! Changing horses for the price of one!  The very first horse I sat on (in memory) as a tiny tot was my grandfather's retired gelding - a fantastic babysitter! My grand would put "Old Coaley" in the yard, and I would just sit on him all day whilst he picked. I really loved him. Anyway, he was white w black flecks, his name was originally, "coaley", he was born black (dark bay). I guess he was a true grey, and had once been quite "the looker". 
My buckskin dapples more as he ages, and has lost the once intense "tiger striping" on his legs that he had as a youngster.
I have always been taught to _never_ "buy color"......but it soooo hard not too!! I would find it hard to resist any horse with your horse's coloring!!!


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## farmpony84 (Apr 21, 2008)

OK then....

Husband has a black carhart work jacket. I remember when Riley was about 2 years old he went into his stall with him and Riley just about ran through the wall trying to get away from him. We thought it was because he's a big tall man and Riley was used to me. 

Then one day husband was in the field fixing fence and Riley wandered up to him and just about had a heart attack when he reached out to pet him.

Just the other day I put that same jacket on and went out to the barn. I went to hug Ri like I do every day and his eyes rolled, he snorted and ran away. I took the jacket off and hung it on the fence. After a few minutes there was no fear. But when I picked up the jacket and tried to get him to sniff it. He snorted and trotted circles.

The jacket is clean. It's been washed a million times but it's a work jacket. He wheres it when he works on vehicles, when he works outside, when he fishes... I have no idea what smell is in that jacket but it's terrifying. Pistol on the other hand... has no idea what the big deal is...


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I would not want the thread to become a discussion of slavery, but I do want to say that there are many kinds of slavery, and were many kinds in the past. For example, the Greeks had slaves. You might consider indentured servents slave or child laborers, slaves. The slavery practiced in the young United States was particularly efficient and cruel, though. The fact that just being of darker skin made it possible for you to be distinguished as a slave meant that it was much harder to escape, both physically, and to escape people's attitude toward you, once you had been emancipated.
American slaves were treated more like livestock; their children were born into slavery, there was no set period to work one's way into freedom , such as indentured servents, they had no rights to really own land, their spouses and children could be removed from them at any time. they could be legally killed by their owners, for a whim. 
Because they were believed to be intriniscically inferior, it was felt the were "meant" for slavery, as opposed to an indentured servent, or a warrior who had been captured and forced into slavery. These persons were slaves only due to their circumstances and once freed, they recovered their original position in society.

All slavery is not the same, but American Slavery was perhaps the most hopeless and destructive of them all, with the longest lasting consequences.

This thread seems to stay alive because there is a strong interest or at least strong feelings about race. As long as the discussion is not attacking, rude, or truly racist then I would think it can continue to live.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

> This unsettling thread won’t die will it? It seems that most of the content has been nothing to do with horses rather has it been to do with prejudice. As a Brit as I read on *and I become aware that race presents much more of a problem for our American cousins than it does for we Europeans.*





Gee, Barry....you make it sound like there is no ethnic discrimination in the UK? Interesting, as even the BBC says it is quite a problem there AND rising;

BBC NEWS | UK | Racial prejudice 'rising in UK'

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: Race riots to grip the UK

So, please, before you point fingers across the pond, look in the mirror. It is everywhere.

And, that is not what this thread is about. Horse will, and do, react to various stimuli. Whether it is from remembered wrongs of the past by people having a certain "look" or "smell" or whatever. It is well known that all animals can have these reactions.


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## BoldComic (Feb 26, 2012)

Wow this has gotten off topic...


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

BoldComic said:


> Wow this has gotten off topic...


I concur. For that reason, I've gone ahead and closed this thread. 

Anyone who wants to continue the discussion about the colors horses can perceive is welcome to start a new thread in the Horse Talk forum. 

Anyone who wants to continue a discussion about race, stereotypes, etc. can do so in the Off Topic forum. Note, however, that since such topics are extremely controversial, any threads that do not discuss them in a respectful manner will be closed, and the posters responsible addressed.


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