# Proper bit for roping/working stock?



## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

fastjessie said:


> I have heard that a snaffle is not good for neck reined cues... but is there an appropriate curb bit that I can try? Thank you.


If you are using your legs correctly, your reins are a back up instead of the primary directional cue. No reason you can't use a snaffle if the horse works in one.


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## BlueSpark (Feb 22, 2012)

a tom thumb it a terrible bit that is harsh and sends conflicting signals. I've done endurance, mountain riding, team penning and other cattle work with many different horses and never used anything other than a snaffle. If he is bolting randomly you need to back up your training and do some basics again.


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## lilruffian (Jun 28, 2010)

Snaffle bits can be used without a problem for neck reining as well as direct reining.
Shanked bits are not meant for direct reining, only neck reining because they do not apply pressure properly when you pull on the reins, so even in a curb you will probably get the same results when you try to turn him using a direct rein pull.
As far as tom thumbs go, like any bit they are only harsh when in the wrong hands. If you use them the way they are supposed to be used on a well-trained horse (again, neck reining with shanked bits) then there should be no issues. Tom thumbs tend to get a bad rap because alot of people think they are just like a snaffle, only with shanks and therefor not that harsh and so they put them on green horses or problem horses as a way to better control them when that is exactly the senerio tom thumbs (or any shanked bit) is not meant for.
Shanked bits are also meant to promote collection, which is why it may be helping to keep your horse under control because they encourage (with the use of a chin strap) the horse to bring their head in instead of hanging on the bit.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

There is no proper bit for cattle work or roping. Use whatever your horse is trained with. Just make sure he is well trained.

I've honestly seen just about everything hung on a horse's head. Grazing bits, snaffles, pelhams, tom thumbs, spades, mona lisa's, wonder bits, nylon halters with lead rope reins... it just doesn't matter as long as you can get the work done while keeping your horse, the cattle, and your other crew members safe. 

It's kind of natural for a horse to get a bit excited when first working cattle, but if yours is running off and you can't re-direct him easily, I agree with those who said go back in his training and fix that. 

Have fun.


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## COWCHICK77 (Jun 21, 2010)

You need to take him off cattle and fix the running off problem. It will only escalate with the excitement of working cattle. 

I would get him out of the tom thumb as well. There are much better options for bits. I would try to keep him in the snaffle if I can. It is very possible to rope and ride one handed in a snaffle, I do it all the time you just have to hold your reins a little different so you can use them. I have them crossed like you would normally and hold them going all the way through my palm, my right rein coming out by my thump and the left coming out by my pinky. It gives a little more control and direct rein then running them through your fingers like you would with a curb bit.

But before anything else you need to figure out why he is running off.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

A 'Tom Thumb' is about the worst bit made that is still sold to people.

I agree with Cowchick. Get your horse more 'broke' without tracking or working cattle unless it is at a WALK, and then you need to stop and back up more than you go forward. You need to teach him to run fast circles and slow down to very slow circle and stop and back up any time you want. Make 20 slow circles and do 20 stops to every fast circle you run. You have the teach a horse to let you handle their speed. What you are finding are the 'holes' in his foundation. As soon as you 'up' the speed and 'up' the kind of work you ask for, you are finding that the foundation you need is not there.

I would suggest you work for a while with a Reined Cowhorse or reining trainer. Learn how to get control of your horse's shoulders, ribs and hips and SPEED and not just worry about riding only his mouth. Just like a barrel horse that has been shown speed without a foundation, I fear that your horse could 'blow up' -- go nuts before you ever get a steer roped. I have watched it happen time and again and helped more than a few riders try to 'fix' the damage done by pushing a horse to do things they do not have the foundation for.

The bit you use is of less consequence (as long as it is not a Tom Thumb or twisted wire bit) than the techniques you use to get the control of the horse's body and mind. 

I have not seen his videos, but I have watched two clinics conducted by Tyler Magness and he is adamant about getting a horse broke. Even more adamant are the good AQHA ropers that also ride Reined Cowhorses like J.D. Yates, Bob Avila, or numerous others that have figured out that a 'broke' horse is a better roping horse.

Let me tell you a little story -- if you are interested:

Several years ago, I broke and trained a gray stallion that I though would be my next show horse and what I would use to breed about 10 good gray mares I had if he proved out. I started him to be a Reined Cowhorse. I put a year in him only 'working' slow cattle at a walk or jog while I got the reining foundation I wanted on him. It was not going great. This horse had a HUGE stop, great circles and speed control, good lead changes, great roll-backs but hated turn-arounds. He hated to move his shoulders worse than any horse I had ridden in a long time. I knew I was never going to make a cowhorse out of him. He was enormously 'cowey', could turn ANY cow on the fence - no matter how tough it was, but hated to 'box' a cow and really hated to turn around. I had never ridden a horse that would run to a cow harder and faster and he could stop harder than anything I had ever ridden.

I called a breeder and roper I know and I told him I thought I had a gray stud that could be a World Champion Calf Roping or Heeling horse (which I did not want) but would never make even a mediocre Cowhorse or reiner. He said don't sell him. I want him. He called a man that he had just sold a set of mares to that wanted to raise roping horses. They came out and watched us ride him. I kept apologizing for his lack of a really good turn-around and all they saw was his hock burying stop and saw how 'broke' he was. They had always just ridden roping horses that were half-broke, braced on tiedowns and raming their stiff back legs and straight hocks into the ground. They wrote me a check on the spot.

That horse was Apache Blue Boy. He has since won a Justin 'Rookie of the Year' award, 6 AQHA World Championships and 6 AQHA Reserve World Championships in open and Amateur roping events, over $65,000.00 in AQHA World Show earnings and more than $200,000.00 in other cash earnings in the roping pen. Google him, he shows what a really 'broke' horse can do in the roping pen. I have a picture of him burying his hocks on our website.*Oh! And did I mention that he was a PMU colt out of Canada???*


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## fastjessie (Oct 12, 2011)

Thank you to everyone who is offering their suggestions. I did not know that you could neck rein with a snaffle. I had been neck reining with the tom thumb, as I always heard that you can't direct rein with any kind of shanked bit. The tom thumb has helped my horse collect himself. He has never spooked or taken off on me while working livestock. I really like the fact that he is very focused when he has a task, like chasing something. I just find that maybe he doesn't quite get the point of the game when I ask him to stop and then pivot back and take off the other way. Thats when I run into the head tossing. The spooking happened about 3 months ago while I was just trail riding. He got spooked one time and would spook every time after that at anything in places he was already familliar with. I tried working him in those spots, making him do figure 8's and such, but he was so focused on spooking that I could have done that forever and he'd just spook again. I really believe he was just playing me, as I shoot off of him and do every other thing with him, and he goes by this place all of the time. He hasn't spooked at anything since I started using the tom thumb. I know a lot of people don't like this bit, but I have been very aware that I shouldn't be relying on controling my horse's mouth to control him. Thats why id like to get away from the tom thumb if neck reining him in tight turns with it is making him throw his head around. 
I agree... professional coaching for both myself and horse is a good idea. I have been working with a friend and just haven't connected with him lately.


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## calicokatt (Mar 5, 2012)

When I plan to neck rein, I use a loose rein, and the bit does not come into play. The rein against the neck is the cue to the horse to move away.... I teach neck reining in a snaffle, because I teach it by applying rein to neck (loose rein), and leg to body to turn the horse. If I get no response I use my other hand to direct rein the horse the direction I want to go, still holding the outside rein and leg against the horse's body. I really prefer to teach this on the trail as when you neck rein around a left hand bend in the trail, there really is no other way to go and usually no need to reinforce the cue by direct reining. I have a really nice english horse who neck reins as well as she direct reins, and an arabian racehorse who learned neck reining in ONE trail session (neck reins better than my two 'western' horses). The bit I use has very little to do with how they neck rein. 
We have quite a few Tom Thumb bits, as they are quite common and what was given to us with a number of horses. I rode my daughter's new gelding in one the other day to see how he did and for ME, he did great, had to reinforce a few cues with a gentle direct rein, but no head tossing, no fight, I thought he was really good. Put my daughter on him and she was all over the place with her hands and his head was flying every which way.... Needless to say I'm looking for another bit for her, as she cannot handle a tom thumb, though her gelding is fine in one in careful hands.... 
If your horse is head tossing, its time for another bit. If the snaffle worked well before and you're not planning to enter a competition where its not allowed, just go back to the snaffle. If its not broke, don't fix it!


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

You can ride most of the 'newer style' curb bits two handed and you can ride with a snaffle with one hand. To use a leverage bit two handed, it needs to have completely loose swivel shanks. 

Most reining trainers usually go from a ring snaffle to a three piece 'correction' mouth or 3 piece 'dog bone' bit with loose shanks. I go to a three piece dog-bone bit with a 5 inch loose shank. It has about 2 inches of its shank above the mouth-piece and about a 3 inch shank below the mouth-piece with a big ring for my reins. I now start most horses into this little 'colt bit' well before they are ready to ride one handed. I have severe arthritis in my hands, so I have trouble even holding the reins at all on some days. Riding with a snaffle just is not an option for me any more -- I wish it were.


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