# Weight critique?



## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

So I was looking at Miss Lacey today and she seems a little skinny to me... What do you think? 

It was mostly because her last two or three ribs are very easy to feel and when she trots you can see those three or so very well... Should I be asking my trainer to get a little bit more weight on her (I think she may be just getting the grass in her pasture and 3 or 4 flakes a day, no grain)? 

Last Saturday:










Side views from today:





















Also, does her back seem to be getting swayed? Or do you figure that's just her conformation?


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## binkyhoo (Jul 13, 2009)

Why do you have to ask your trainer about your horses health? How old is she? Give that horse some grain. She is a good looking horse, need a few more scoops out of the grain bin.


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## FireFlies (Jul 26, 2009)

I agreed with binkyhoo, She needs some grain. Being a domesticated horse she cannot get all her nutrients from just grass or hay. How long has she been off grain? If it's been awhile make sure to slowly introduce her back to it so she doesn't get sick. I don't know a lot about conformation but she does look slightly sway back to me. Try doing TTOUCH back lifts. Which is where using the fingertips with nails being used in a quick press and release motion near the mid line of the belly starting behind the front legs until she lifts her back. Be sure to start gently at first to avoid being kicked. This is from Linda Tellington-Jones book. 

Hope this helped


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

binkyhoo said:


> Why do you have to ask your trainer about your horses health? How old is she? Give that horse some grain. She is a good looking horse, need a few more scoops out of the grain bin.


She's half owned by my trainer, I'm only her half owner (I had been doing a kinda lease to own sorta thing and I decided that it wouldn't be financially responsible for me to take on full ownership but that half ownership is a better option for the time being). I will for sure talk to her about getting Lacey some grain. She's 24, so pretty much an old lady. =) 

Fireflies- I'll try those! What if she won't lift her back? She loves to have her belly touched so I'm not positive she won't just lean into my fingernails. Lol!
I'm not completely positive she's even off grain, I just think she might be. If she is off grain she's only been off of it for a month or so.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

binkyhoo said:


> Why do you have to ask your trainer about your horses health? How old is she? Give that horse some grain. She is a good looking horse, need a few more scoops out of the grain bin.


Blindly throwing a horse some grain is a stupid, stupid thing to do. Grain increases risk for colic and in general isn't great for a horse. And by the way, a wild horse's stomach works EXACTLY the same way as a domestic horse's stomach FireFlies. I think her weight looks pretty good, I would say ask your vet about vitamin/nutrition supplements. If she continues to drop weight than you can ask your vet about a hard keeper feed. And yes I think she may have some swayback, notice how her barrel is starting to flatten and bulge out at the top. Also, I have to ask, are your horse's hooves/legs okay? The way she is standing, especially in the last picture, looks like she's gone through many years of work.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

roro said:


> And yes I think she may have some swayback, notice how her barrel is starting to flatten and bulge out at the top. Also, I have to ask, are your horse's hooves/legs okay? The way she is standing, especially in the last picture, looks like she's gone through many years of work.


I do see that! I knew there was something that was different about her back from normal horses with curvy backs but I just couldn't put my finger on what exactly it was. Should I be padding her differently when I ride and stuff? Maybe I should just make a new post about that...

Her legs/hooves should be ok. She has been very badly trimmed (not making her lame or anything, just leaving them super long then trimming then back etc) over the last year and I just took over her hoof stuff and switched her over to a pretty good barefoot farrier. She only had her first trim last week though so she's a work in progress. She was also severely overweight for her entire life up until a year ago so maybe that could contribute to her "overworked" stance? This is actually the first year that she's actually been in any sort of work in the last 3-4 years. I don't work her hard either, just lunging for 20 minutes then riding for 15-30 only walk/trot at this point, only two or three times a week. I only canter her undersaddle maybe twice a month for less than 10 minutes each time.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

Wallaby said:


> I do see that! I knew there was something that was different about her back from normal horses with curvy backs but I just couldn't put my finger on what exactly it was. Should I be padding her differently when I ride and stuff? Maybe I should just make a new post about that...
> 
> Her legs/hooves should be ok. She has been very badly trimmed (not making her lame or anything, just leaving them super long then trimming then back etc) over the last year and I just took over her hoof stuff and switched her over to a pretty good barefoot farrier. She only had her first trim last week though so she's a work in progress. She was also severely overweight for her entire life up until a year ago so maybe that could contribute to her "overworked" stance? This is actually the first year that she's actually been in any sort of work in the last 3-4 years. I don't work her hard either, just lunging for 20 minutes then riding for 15-30 only walk/trot at this point, only two or three times a week. I only canter her undersaddle maybe twice a month for less than 10 minutes each time.


Yes, being overweight for a long period of time can definitely affect the legs. I thought it was unusual because she didn't look like she had any major conformational or hoof issues, but if she had to carry extra weight for a long time it would stress the legs some and she would become used to standing in that way. The best thing to do with a horse that has swayback is strengthen her abdominal muscles, which are the muscles on the bottom of the barrel. As they grow stronger with proper work, her back may lift up some. Massage therapists also can work on a horse and help with this, to in case she has any back soreness.
A link for some abdominal strengthening exercises for horses: (I know it says for gaited horses but it applies to all horses)
Flex
you can find more abdominal strengthening on other sites as well.


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## FireFlies (Jul 26, 2009)

roro said:


> And by the way, a wild horse's stomach works EXACTLY the same way as a domestic horse's stomach FireFlies.


I wasn't saying that a wild horse's stomach worked any differently than a domestic horse's, just that they have evolved enough to get all they need from grazing.


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

FireFlies said:


> I wasn't saying that a wild horse's stomach worked any differently than a domestic horse's, just that they have evolved enough to get all they need from grazing.


Nobody "evolved" to get all they need for grazing. Horses were always that way, long before humankind even existed. They are not designed to be kept in stalls and trained all day, so they need vitamin supplements etc if the hay in the area is low quality. I have a horse that is worked twice a day 3 days a week and once a day the other times (with an off day) that is doing marvelously with just hay, water, digestive probiotics, and Northwest Supplement (vitamins that the NW hay is deficient in) and a salt block. No horse needs grain.


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## HeartMyOTTB (Aug 13, 2009)

Roro is correct. Sometimes when I see questions about a horses weight, often people suggest giving more or different grain. But generally, it is not grain that puts weight on, its the hay

As for the abdominal strengthening exercises, I do those to my horse too. They were suggested to me by my equine chiropractor (Grady being off the track, he needs to get realigned sometimes). She did tell me however, only to do a couple on each side at a time. Lifting the abdominal muscles like that is hard for work a horse!

And finally, someone once told me that if a horse is a little ribby but with a heavy belly (similarly to your horse), that means they could have worms. Is that true? Could be a question for another thread, but I thought I'd ask!!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

So does she "need" grain or is it fine that she's not getting any grain? 
I've heard that too about worms. I'll ask my trainer when she was last wormed. She has been rubbing her tail head a bit, which I've also read is a sign of worms and I wondered but not enough to ask. I will definitely ask now though! =)


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## FireFlies (Jul 26, 2009)

roro said:


> Nobody "evolved" to get all they need for grazing. Horses were always that way, long before humankind even existed. They are not designed to be kept in stalls and trained all day, so they need vitamin supplements etc if the hay in the area is low quality. I have a horse that is worked twice a day 3 days a week and once a day the other times (with an off day) that is doing marvelously with just hay, water, digestive probiotics, and Northwest Supplement (vitamins that the NW hay is deficient in) and a salt block. No horse needs grain.



Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm glad your horse is such an easy keeper


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## roro (Aug 14, 2009)

HeartMyOTTB said:


> And finally, someone once told me that if a horse is a little ribby but with a heavy belly (similarly to your horse), that means they could have worms. Is that true? Could be a question for another thread, but I thought I'd ask!!


I believe you are thinking of "worm belly". Here's a picture of a colt with a worm belly: http://www.horsemenslab.com/images/worms/round_worms/2.jpg
The indicators of a worms are if the horse has a thin build yet a bulging barrel known as worm belly, when you see a worm belly it looks like a bloated barrel hanging on some thin ribs and spine. A dull scruffy coat and lack of energy (constant sleep look in the eyes) and sudden weight loss are also indicators. I think it is plausible that Lacie has worm belly but not extremely likely, as her hind quarters, neck and shoulder still look healthy. If it concerns you, you could get your vet to do a fecal egg count.

And Fireflies, it is not my opinion that horses do better with more hay and less grain, it is a fact.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

roro said:


> And Fireflies, it is not my opinion that horses do better with more hay and less grain, it is a fact.


Quite right. Also, Wallaby do NOT give lacy grain as she has foundered in the past. If you want to pack on pounds grass and hay should do it, might add some equine senior and oil. Honestly though, she looks good to me. How rough are your winters?

On the wild vs. domestic horses... It doesn't matter domestic or wild, they can get all the nutrients they need from graze IF the nutrients are there. Here in the NW we have a considerable selenium deficiency in our soil and thus in our grass. Therefore all our horses, ruminants and camelids need to be supplimented. Also if there is a high amount of something that binds nutrients such as molybdenum it doesn't matter if the grass is sufficient, you'll need additional supplimentation. The best person to ask about your area's deficiencies is a nutritionist or a vet who knows their stuff.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

tealamutt said:


> Quite right. Also, Wallaby do NOT give lacy grain as she has foundered in the past. If you want to pack on pounds grass and hay should do it, might add some equine senior and oil. Honestly though, she looks good to me. How rough are your winters?


Just saying: the only person who knows if Lacey has foundered before is her previous owner, I have no way of contacting her so we can only suspect that Lacey has foundered. 

That aside, I have no intention of loading her up on grain. She gets a little "sugar-high ish" when she's had a bunch so the most she's getting (when she gets any) is about half a large scoop of senior grain stuff. Thanks for being concerned though! I appreciate it. =)

Our winters are pretty mild, usually. Last winter it was crazy insane for here. We had temperatures below 20 degrees for 3-4 weeks and about 3 feet of snow on the ground during that time. Usually though it doesn't get below 25 very often if at all and we usually only get at most 5 inches of snow for less than a week at a time, maybe only 3 times during the winter. 
I did buy her a really snuggly new blanket so even if it does get super cold again she should be snuggly all the way through.


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

ok, sorry I thought she had for sure foundered, but I guess now that I think of it you just suspected... Her feet really look like it. My boy gets high on grain too so I don't like it even if I weren't scared of founder. As I'm sure you know, don't blanket her until she's gotten to grow her coat out a little. Our winters see 20 below some days so you're mild compared to here but still pretty cold, in that case I might give her a few extra groceries to pack it on before the temps drop. Hay and senior should do the trick. I just got my guy a nice snuggly blanket too. I almost can't wait for the snow to fly so I can see him strut his stuff in it!


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

That's totally fine. =) Wow, 20 below? That's way intense. My mind just froze thinking about it. Haha

Yep, she's already got a mini winter coat (last year her coat was over 4 inches long), her belly is already super furry.  I'm gonna miss my slick looking baby girl! haha I can't wait for it to snow/get cold so I can see her in her adorable blanket too! It's pink and gray plaid, it looks adorable on her. 

I'm very thankful that she grows such a great winter coat, it makes me feel so much less worried about her being out in the weather all the time.

Lacey masquerading as a snuggly bear in the winter:


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

If she isn't shedding out the whole way in the summer (keeping a long coat) and you think she is losing weight, then I would get her kidney function tested. These are both signs of equine metabolic or Cushing's disease.

As far as her weight I definitely wouldn't call her underweight. It is dangerous for any horse to be carrying too much weight. If you must feed her more than chuck her another flake of grass hay (not alfalfa!) every day.

And about the supplemental feeding - all horses with no health issues and under little to moderate work should need is a mineral block or loose minerals, hay and water. It is only when the horse has a medical condition, has trouble keeping weight on (in this case there is usually an underlying medical condition) or is under strenuous work or really growing/pregnant/nursing that it needs supplemental feed. Even at this point, it is ideal to feed supplemental feeds (concentrates) that are going to digest the same way as hay and grass (beet pulp, rice bran, etc..), as opposed to starchy and sugary foods that are not going to (grain, sweet feed, some complete feeds, etc..).

And as an end note, talk to your vet!! Next time he/she is out doing something, get his/her opinion on your horse's weight, feeding program and overall health. Talk to them also about Cushings and how to detect it, and get them to check for signs.

Good luck!


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## tealamutt (Aug 21, 2009)

if you look at the pics in the first post you can see that Miss Lacey has a lovely summer coat, not cushnoid at all! I get the impression Wallaby just wants to make sure that she's good going into winter, not that she's been dropping weight.

Wallaby- is her blanket the one from Kensington?? sooo jealous, almost wish I had a mare just so I could dress her in pink. Tanner's is poppy red, a comprimise!


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## EveningShadows (May 18, 2009)

I don't think she looks underweight, a nice working weight though! It would be nice to see a couple pounds put on her before the chilly weather gets here, but not a crazy amount. When were her teeth done last? How often do you deworm her? These, to me, are things you NEED to know, even as a half owner. How long have you half owned her? Good to hear you were able to spot shoddy farrier work and take things into your own hands...

As for the blanket for winter, it's nice to have on the coldest of nights, but I heard it flattens whatever winter coat they DID grow so in taking it off a week later they get colder than ever. One or two shivering nights is better for them than being snuggly those nights and stripped of their blankie. She looks like she grows a decent coat for winter there! Our winters can be miserable up in MB Canada - we see -40 Celcius every year for a couple weeks/months depending how harsh mother nature is to us...in the 8 years I've had horses, only ONE was blanketed and only for the one year because her coat just didn't come in the way it should have...Welsh ponies have AWESOME coats and for some reason it was like she went TB on me last winter! LOL Anyway, just be careful when and how you use the blanket.


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## binkyhoo (Jul 13, 2009)

HeartMyOTTB said:


> Roro is correct. Sometimes when I see questions about a horses weight, often people suggest giving more or different grain. But generally, it is not grain that puts weight on, its the hay
> 
> As for the abdominal strengthening exercises, I do those to my horse too. They were suggested to me by my equine chiropractor (Grady being off the track, he needs to get realigned sometimes). She did tell me however, only to do a couple on each side at a time. Lifting the abdominal muscles like that is hard for work a horse!
> 
> And finally, someone once told me that if a horse is a little ribby but with a heavy belly (similarly to your horse), that means they could have worms. Is that true? Could be a question for another thread, but I thought I'd ask!!


Sorry, I was being to quick with my first responce. This post sounds much more intelligent. I dont know everything I guess.


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## XxHunterJumperxX (Jul 11, 2009)

I personally think she could acually be a little slimmer in the stomache, but she can also lose some sway back with some therapy, but without the back like that, then it could totally change the way she looks.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

anebel- she is definitely shedding out. =) She has a very slick summer coat, she's actually growing her winter coat right now so the first pictures aren't truly as shed out as she gets. 

Tealamutt- The blanket is actually a Weatherbeeta. The picture makes it look totally different. I was expecting blue-ish purple and red but got gray/pink instead, in a totally different pattern than the ad. either way, it's cute and well worth the money. =D

EveningShadows- I don't know the last time her teeth were floated. I called her old vet (the one her previous owner used) and they refused to tell me because the previous owner hadn't transferred the records to me/my trainer and the phone number they had for her is no longer working. That being said, I'm going to look into getting her teeth floated soon as it's been a year since her previous owner could have had her teeth floated.
My trainer told me today, when I asked, that the last time she was wormed was in June so I'd assume she's probably due for another worming? 
The only time she'll be blanketed this winter is when it's super cold and rainy (her field doesn't have anymore shelter than just this one huge tree, she'll be naked when it's only light rain) and if it gets super cold like last winter. 
I've heard that too about the hair and I definitly try not to over blanket. My main issue is that it rains a lot a lot here and I've read that rain basically strips them of their natural protection- I guess being wet makes it so the insulation properties of the hair are basically gone, and since she has no real shelter...



I tried the thing with my nails and her stomach, to get her to lift it up and it failed miserably. Maybe it's because my nails aren't very long right now but all she did was turn her head to watch what I was doing. >.< Haha
Any tips to make her do it?


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## trashcanchaser (Sep 21, 2009)

i think her weight is fine. if you start exercising her more then her intake should be more as well. she seems to be swaying a little bit but i barrel race my 20 year old mare and she has a bit of a sway and does great. i dont have any problems out of it and i have read every were that it doesnt hurt them.


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