# Your stand on horse slaughter?



## manhirwen

I am writing a cause and effect essay for my writing class. I decided that a good issue to cover would be horse slaughter. I want to know your opinion on the effect banning horse slaughter in america has on the horse industry. I'm not looking for short answers like "it's bad!" I want real thought out answers explaining why you are for or against it and what effect you believe it has on the horses, both good and bad. 

If you are against horse slaughter, please tell me what alternatives there are for disposing of horse carcasses, lame, severely neglected horses etc...

If you are for horse slaughter, let me know what effects it has on the economy, the hundreds of thousand of unwanted horses, the increase in abandonment etc...

Keep it clean, if someone's opinion differs from your own please be respectful of that opinion and the other person. 

Let's here your thoughts!


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## Speed Racer

Manhirwen, instead of opening a new slaughter thread, why not just use the search function?

There are plenty of threads concerning equine slaughter, with both sides chiming in.

You should be able to write your essay based on the opinions we've already set forth.


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## manhirwen

Mostly because I was hoping to get some numbers on a pole. I suppose it's not that important and the thread can be deleted.


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## AQHA

I have no problem with horse slaughter, it's what happens before and up to that point.


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## ridergirl23

I have no problem with horse slaughter, i also agree with AQHA. I think it reduces abandoned horses and neglected/starved horses. If we didnt have horse slaughter (eek i hate that word!) then people would have nowhere to send horses that they had to let go, horses that no one would buy because their lame or something, but they need to get rid of because they have no money to feed. IMO rescues could never hold/help all the neglected animals if there werent slaughters.  just my two cents


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## rum4

The horse slaughter battle has good and bad points. I agree that the horses shuld not be abused but there are humane was to slaughter horses, just as with other livestock. Some people eat horse others don't but why take away jobs just because some don't agree with it. Next thing you know we will have laws that won't let us slaughter other livestock... then what????


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## Shawneen

Speed Racer said:


> Manhirwen, instead of opening a new slaughter thread, why not just use the search function?
> 
> There are plenty of threads concerning equine slaughter, with both sides chiming in.
> 
> You should be able to write your essay based on the opinions we've already set forth.


No offense but I agree. These debates tend to get very heated and people have ended up getting banned in the past. Just do a search in the forum and on the net to validate any opinions.


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## DressageIsToDance

I don't have a problem with horse slaughter itself - what I have a problem with is a) how the horses are treated while they are waiting to be transported to a slaughter facility, b) how the horses are transported, c) how they are treated at the facility itself, and d) how the actual act of slaughtering the animal is carried out.

Unfortunately, many of those are not up to par with my personal standards of how I feel horses should be treated to minimize fear, stress and pain.

I suppose I am on the fence. I would rather horses not be slaughtered at all than to suffer the way they so often do in slaughter houses...that being said, lack there of them would be devastating in itself, because horse overpopulation is a problem today. If I were to be fully against slaughter, however, my solution would be to decrease the population through means of education of breeding for quality horses, rather than mediocre and badly conformed horses, breeding with a purpose, not just because, and also following up with a good start and a good trainer to make for a horse who will at least retain if not gain value through his/her life, and also to promote euthanasia for older horses who have health problems, cannot be ridden and would be difficult to place in a home.


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## manhirwen

If it makes the moderators happy they can delete this thread


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## Starlet

Horse slaughter is ok i think. There are a lot of unwanted, lame, abandoned, sick, and just bad horses that can't be ridden and slaughtering them is a way to keep the number of those horses under control. Plus in most cases, the horse is killed quickly, so it's actually pretty humane.


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## Alwaysbehind

manhirwen said:


> Mostly because I was hoping to get some numbers on a pole. I suppose it's not that important and the thread can be deleted.


I do not see a pole. Was it deleted?

I think you are confused (or being snarky, not sure which). No one said the topic was not important. They are just telling you that this topic has been covered MANY times and you can probably get your answers easily by doing a search.


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## alli09

My stand on horse slaughter is that if something can not be done right or legally it shouldn't be done at all. When the horse slaughter plant closed in California there was not a increase of horses that were being abandoned in that state. It is just a cover story so that people don't lose their jobs and so that the industry doesn't die because of the demand in other countries. I have heard both sides of the horse slaughter debate and still I stand on the anti side. Most horses that go to slaughter are not even unwanted, sick, old or lame. What about the pregnant mares that are slaughtered?! Their babies didn't even get a chance at life. I'm not stupid. I do have common sense and that is why I am against it.


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## kmdstar

I am pro slaughter since I really don't have a choice in the matter. Honestly, I think slaughter is the only thing horses have got going for them. It's their ticket out. It sounds terrible but with what some horses have to go through and deal with is also terrible and slaughter is MUCH better compared to that. Starving, hobbling around on long hooves, injuries and pain gone untreated...you get the point. Unfortunately, it is a necessary evil.


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## kmdstar

alli09 said:


> What about the pregnant mares that are slaughtered?! Their babies didn't even get a chance at life.


Look at the horse industry, those babies are lucky they never had to deal with what horses today are dealing with.


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## alli09

it's funny how people say that slaughter is helping the matter of them being neglected, but numbers of that happening has not increased or decreased. That's pretty confusing to me.


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## kmdstar

alli09 said:


> it's funny how people say that slaughter is helping the matter of them being neglected, but numbers of that happening has not increased or decreased. That's pretty confusing to me.


I don't think it is helping the matter of them being neglected, but it is helping to end the suffering. I mean face it, there will always be neglect, no one can stop that unfortunately.


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## alli09

kmdstar said:


> I don't think it is helping the matter of them being neglected, but it is helping to end the suffering. I mean face it, there will always be neglect, no one can stop that unfortunately.


suffering? You have that backwards.


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## Gidget

I am for horse slaughter depending on the circumstances. There are a lot of horses who could go to slaughter and end their misery. The abuse and neglect is horrible and many people can't pay for their horses and sometimes they are so far gone it's best to kill them.
Our Whimsy was taken to a Big Cat park and she was shot and butchered there so her remains could be used as food for the cats. She was put to a good cause.Yes,it is sad but her body helped many other bodies in the end.


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## Gidget

oh and she was taken because she had arthritis to the extreme and she was crippling. She was in horrible pain and the vet said it would be best to put her down.

And although the numbers haven't increased or decreased with abuse or neglect slaughter helps those who can't make a good recovery if hurt bad. Why let them be in pain untill they die? Killing them..in more of a humane way ..either a bullet or putting them to sleep is what I consider humane..no way of letting them suffer.


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## Alwaysbehind

alli09 said:


> Their babies didn't even get a chance at life.


Please tell me with this attitude about unborn animals you are against human abortion too.


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## DressageIsToDance

Here's thing thing about the unborn foals: We have an overpopulation problem with horses right now, stemming from the constant breeding of mediocre or just plain crappy horses. Honestly, it's awful to say, but those foals do not NEED a chance at life. There are simply too many horses as it is.

Here's the thing with neglected horses: First of all the actual number is not tied to slaughter. As in, people are going to neglect and/or abuse horses no matter if they can throw them on a meat truck in the end or not. The key thing is; at least for the US, no slaughter plants only means that it's not happening in the US. What happens is, the horses usually go to an auction, sometimes private sale too, and end up on a truck to a country where there *are* slaughter plants. So when people want to get rid of a horse that they don't want to bother with selling, that they can't sell, and don't want to pay for euthanasia, that's a popular route for someone like that to take.

It's sad, but it still happens. The number of abandoned/neglected horses has not changed that much because if someone wants to get rid of an unwanted horse, and they don't want to spend money to do it, they can STILL send it off to slaughter. :?

We do need "sink" for horses, at least, until we get to a point where breeding is more conservative and responsible and population is in a better state - but that will likely not happen ever. But it should be as humane as possible, as I said before. The route to slaughter should be cost efficient but SAFE and comfortable for the horses. Their care at the facility however brief should be as low stress as possible and the horses should be comfortable. The actual deed should be quick, clean, and the horse should be kept as calm as possible.


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## manhirwen

Alwaysbehind said:


> I do not see a pole. Was it deleted?
> 
> I think you are confused (or being snarky, not sure which). No one said the topic was not important. They are just telling you that this topic has been covered MANY times and you can probably get your answers easily by doing a search.


I AM confused about what snarky means. I didn't say the topic wasn't important. I knew that I could get the information I needed from other threads but I was hoping to get some pole numbers. I didn't get them in time and the pole has closed.


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## Clair

I know that the demand for horses has fallen in the US, as some people lose jobs, etc, some are unable to pay for their animals, or the feed, (board, etc) and send horses to auction, where many are purchased and taken to slaughter. 

I know that my horse *could have* ended up being slaughtered. We bought him three days before he was to be sent to auction. He's five, a registered, lovely QH. He was a little hand shy, but other than that, nothing was wrong with him. That makes my personal feelings on slaughter, obviously, biased to the negative.

I encourage you to visit this website. http://usesr.org/viewpage.php?page_id=6

*and other websites,* so you may form your own opinion. 

(warning) the methods of slaughter discussed in that link, (the methods used in Kauffman and Ft. Worth, at least) are NOT humane. The USESR also holds that the idea of overpopulation of horses is a "nasty myth." which is interesting.

I will say I would be more inclined to be alright with "slaughter" if it wasn't slaughter. I believe euthanasia would be more agreeable.

I would compare it to us. If you were suffering, or had to die, would you choose to be lynched, or would you pick the lethal injection?
I find that a fair comparision, based on my knowledge of the ways horses are slaughtered.

I hope this helps you, not only with your paper, but with forming your own ideas about such a controversial topic in the horse world.


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## Clair

And ps, I LOVE the Anne McCaffrey reference in your sig.
Go fantasy!


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## tanjam

*The poll was closed but I am anti slaughter and from canada*



kmdstar said:


> I am pro slaughter since I really don't have a choice in the matter. Honestly, I think slaughter is the only thing horses have got going for them. It's their ticket out. It sounds terrible but with what some horses have to go through and deal with is also terrible and slaughter is MUCH better compared to that. Starving, hobbling around on long hooves, injuries and pain gone untreated...you get the point. Unfortunately, it is a necessary evil.


I had the very same conversation in another horse chat.

I am anti slaughter because there is no need to slaughter.
Slaughtering has become an easy way to get rid of a horse and still make some money on it.
As long the european countries and asia buy our horse meat, there will be horses bred in backyard because it is so easy to discard them.

Your arguement that slaughter is more like a mercy killing.
Have you looked lately into the videos filmed at slaughter houses? A mercy killing? Don't you think if somebody owns a horse, he should be responsible enough to trim the hooves, to heal the wounds, to give the horse medical attention? If they get sick, you just go and slaughter them? If you can't afford a horse you send it to slaughter?

We will breed horses until there is no demand for the meat. This will be happening here very soon as the EU already has new regulations in place by July 31, 2010.

Any horse should have the right to be euthanized. This is not expensive and will be often discounted or assisted with, by vets and rescue groups.
The vets come out to your land, euthanize the horse, bring the truck and dispose of the body. This is humane and this is the treatment any horse deserves, no matter how old, how sick how many, I say every horse deserves this respect.

There is an article on my website which I especially designed to have petitions against horse slaughter signed and to support Bill C 544.
Several articles will bring you to video footage taken just a few months ago. You watch it and tell me that you think a horse is better off if it gets slaughtered.

Every info on this site is linked to its original site. 

www.animalsunited.webs.com 

PS: I appologize if I came in the door a little harsh. But I like to speak my mind and don't appreciate ignorant people.
It has been prooven that without slaughter not more or less horses were abandoned or starved to death. This is just a silly excuse to.


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## Lovehorsesandrunning

I am not completly against horse slaughter i just wish they would make it more humaine. I dont really understand when someone is completly against and will not argue about how it has it good point. With out the whole cycle would be messed up for a while. There may be too many horses in the world sometimes and they dont have homes. Id rather see a horse be used for a good purpose for like food then see it starve and be homeless because there is not always a place for rescue horses. I just really wish it was more humane because its obviously not :/.


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## Lovehorsesandrunning

tanjam said:


> I had the very same conversation in another horse chat.
> 
> I am anti slaughter because there is no need to slaughter.
> Slaughtering has become an easy way to get rid of a horse and still make some money on it.
> As long the european countries and asia buy our horse meat, there will be horses bred in backyard because it is so easy to discard them.
> 
> Your arguement that slaughter is more like a mercy killing.
> Have you looked lately into the videos filmed at slaughter houses? A mercy killing? Don't you think if somebody owns a horse, he should be responsible enough to trim the hooves, to heal the wounds, to give the horse medical attention? If they get sick, you just go and slaughter them? If you can't afford a horse you send it to slaughter?
> 
> We will breed horses until there is no demand for the meat. This will be happening here very soon as the EU already has new regulations in place by July 31, 2010.
> 
> Any horse should have the right to be euthanized. This is not expensive and will be often discounted or assisted with, by vets and rescue groups.
> The vets come out to your land, euthanize the horse, bring the truck and dispose of the body. This is humane and this is the treatment any horse deserves, no matter how old, how sick how many, I say every horse deserves this respect.
> 
> There is an article on my website which I especially designed to have petitions against horse slaughter signed and to support Bill C 544.
> Several articles will bring you to video footage taken just a few months ago. You watch it and tell me that you think a horse is better off if it gets slaughtered.
> 
> Every info on this site is linked to its original site.
> 
> www.animalsunited.webs.com
> 
> PS: I appologize if I came in the door a little harsh. But I like to speak my mind and don't appreciate ignorant people.
> It has been prooven that without slaughter not more or less horses were abandoned or starved to death. This is just a silly excuse to.


 
I COMPLETLY agree with everything you say, but again id rather have a horse be used to help something else then have it starved and homeless. But you are right the owner should be completly responsible for their horse! at least sent it to a recue center if they are bankrupt or something! I dont completly beilive it is a silly excuse and that it has been proven because how would they prove it when more horses are being sent every hour. ITt would be nicer without horse slaughter and those poor darling horses lives being wasted but with it there its almost hard to remove it ;(


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## tanjam

Since the slaughter has ended in the states, we are the receiver of the horses.
In 2008 we slaughtered 112.887 horses, 49% from the states.
Alone the bouvry slaughter house kills 1000 horses every week of which over 100 are foals.
Those are not horses that nobody can take care of, horses that just appeared. Those are horses that have been discarded and send to slaughter because it is a easy way to get rid of them.
Those horses are no slaughter material. We slaughter the mustangs that the BLM captured tax funded. 
Anybody that can watch the videos that have been come up in the last years and still say that slaughter is a humane way is just plain ignorant. This is not humane. 
The slaughter plants are not designed to slaughter horses, but cattle. 
The kill boxes are slippery for a hoof, the horses can see above the box, smell the blood of the horse before, see the other horses hung up by their hindlegs, still struggeling while their throat gets cut open, not being bled out and and still alive when their hooves get chopped off.
The stunt guns, bolt guns they use, are designed for cows. A horse will panic, it is a flight animal, the gun can not be pointed right to kill the horse. Often and as shown on the videos, a horse has to be shut three times before it finally goes down. There is nothing humane about slaughter.
Since the states shut down slaughter, horses are being transported up to 38 hours at the time, no food no water, cramped onto trailers, injured, sick and scared, some arrive dead, being trampeled by the others, some with wounds so bad, you wouldn't believe it.

If you like to get some more info on the subject slaughter, please visit my site and read all the info.

www.animalsunited.webs.com


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## hillarymorganstovall

I want to quickly say that I am completely against horse slaughter. I will give you a couple of quick facts and then I will post some anti slaughter links you can read through.

Even if you have absolutely no feelings at all, there are a few economical, environmental and health concerns involved. 

Firstly, there have been recent studies in Europe that prove that the bute in horse meat, given to most horses in the US and everywhere else, causes fatal bone marrow depletion in people, infertility and many other ailments when ingested. Furthermore, there is not a "detox period" for it, despite what some think. 

Secondly, when the american slaughter houses were open there was significant pollution of the ground water near Dallas Crown and employees/witnesses/residents claim that the plants dumped the waste, like blood and body parts, into rivers and streams. This includes heads. There have been reports, I think in Illinois (not sure), that chunks of waste were found in water sources. Horses have much more blood in their bodies than cows which so it is much more waste involved. The plant owned by Cavel international in Illinois was a "state of the art" facility which could handle 8Xs the waste than previous facilities and was still not in compliance. The city had levied a total of $80,500 for violations from 2006.

Thirdly, the "American" plants were foreign owned and when Dallas Crown's records were exposed, It was revealed that they got an estimated $5 million in Federal funding annually, and paid only FIVE DOLLARS in taxes and made over $12 MILLION per year. Your tax dollars at work! That is only one house.

Fourthly, there have also been studied done that prove that, because the neck is much longer than that of a cow and has a greater range of movement, the bolt gun cannot be use efficiently and humanely and most times doesn't "stun" them at all. They are hung up and their throats are slit while they are still conscious. It is obviously concluded that there is presently NO way to humanely slaughter a horse. 

Fifthly, Horse slaughter advocates want you to believe that this is a ‘service,’ that horses being slaughtered are lame, old or ill-tempered. Yet the USDA funded Temple Grandin study of horses arriving at slaughter found that well over 90% (92.3%) met none of these criteria. In fact, the slaughter of healthy horses means greater profitability for the slaughter plant owners. If they have to pump food (which costs money) into the horses its less profit. It's the same mentality of their former owners, and the reason they end up going through auction. The following is a picture taken of starved horses at a KILLER BUYERS facility. (killer buyer Terry Saulters in Waco, Tx) Further evidence that old, sick, or emaciated horses are not relieved of suffering one they are one there way to slaughter.









Sixthly, there have been studies conducted that prove crime rates are increased by in slaughterhouse towns because of the violent nature of the job. I will find a link and post it later.

Sevently, there have been studies conducted that prove there has been no decrease (and possibly and increase) in horse abuse/neglect cases during the last few years before the horse slaughterhouses in USA closed. I may be mistaken but I believe there has also been a decrease since the plants were closed. I will find a link and post it later.

The reasons above were not made up in my anti-slaughter head. They have been PROVEN in studies. Pro-slaughter people are either heartless or have been sadly misguided and are holding onto false reasons. The only way to stop the overpopulation of horses is to STOP BREEDING for the time being. 

People want slaughter so they aren't held responsible for their mistakes. 

If they have an oops, kill it; If they have an injury, kill it; If they are too old for _ME TO USE_, kill it; My horse is to manly to get him gelded I can just kill the babies; People should be held responsible.

There are countless reasons to slop slaughter, but sadly money outweighs everything. It destroys our health, environment, economy, society and morals, and almost nothing good comes from it. It kills those who eat it, corrupts those who do it, wastes precious lives and negatively affects the environment and people in the environment. 


Here is a good link to read I'll be posting more

Former Mayor: Horse Slaughterhouses a Drain on Taypayers — Never Mind the Ditches of Blood | Pith in the Wind | Nashville Scene


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## wild_spot

> Pro-slaughter people are either heartless or have been sadly misguided and are holding onto false reasons.


I am neither heartless OR misguided, thank you very much.

I live in a different country so the issues here are very different from the issues in the US. Slaughter is viewed very differently here.

I also want to point out that not all horse slaughter is done with the end goal of human consumption - In fact, here in AUS, there are only two slaughter houses licensed to slaughter horses for human consumption - The majority of horse slaughter here is for various other uses (Pet food, feeding large game animals, other by-products).

I wouldn't call myself 'pro-slaughter' - I don't LIKE slaughter and I doubt most 'pros' do either. I simply see it as a necessary evil until the we can use other means to render it redundant.

In a perfect world, every horse owner would be held accountable for the horses they own. They would be made to provide vet care when the horse is injured; Feed if the horse is not maintaining weight; Dental care and hoof care if and when needed; And at the end of their life, they should be required to euthanase the horse, wether it be by injection, bullet, or any other commonly accepted as humane method. 

However - In a world where people can't be completely responsible for their own children, how can we expect them to be fully responsible for animals?

There are, and always will be i'm afraid, horses (And other animals) out there who are mistreated, neglected, abused, or simply treated as property and not as a living being. It is a sad truth.

It is also a sad truth that it is expensive and often very difficult to humanely euthanize and dispose of a horse carcass, especially in suburban areas. It costs money to euthanize a horse. If you are very, very lucky you will have an area nearby where you are allowed to bury a carcass - then you need to organise someone to haul the carcass there for you, and do the necessary earthworks. If you aren't lucky, you also need to pay someone to dispose of the carcass - Wether it be burying it on their own land or taking it to a rendering plant. It is not an easy or cheap excercise. The issue is - in todays economy, many horses are in a bad way because people have found themselves without enough money to adequately care for them. In such a situation, how do you expect them to muster up enough money to do the right thing? I certainly couldn't blame anyone who was struggling to get by choosing to send their horse to an auction and receive a small amount of money than watch it starve in their paddock.

There are as many articles written by vets and other authorised people who believe the captive bolt gun IS a humane method of slaughter for horses as there are who don't believe it. In actuality, the captive bolt only stuns cattle before they are bled, but it kills a horse because they have a much thinner skull and the brain is closer to the front of the head.

Death is never pretty - no matter how it is administered - And there are some pretty horrific stories out there of euthanasia gone wrong as well. Euthanasia (The injection) is done more to appease the human than the horse - I believe the most humane way to euthanase a horse is with a well placed bullet, in a place it is familiar with.


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## hillarymorganstovall

http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/AAHSTalkingPoints.pdf

"The documented crime increases include a 130% increase in violent crimes in Finney County, Kansas (Broadway 2000) and a 63% increase in monthly police bookings in Lexington, Nebraska (Gouveia and Stull 1995). Increases in crime have also been observed in at least one Canadian town to date: the town of Brooks, Alberta witnessed a 70% increase in reported crime.”
“the correlation between dismembering animals and victimization of less powerful human groups such as women and children is clear and bears itself out in increased domestic violence in communities surrounding slaughterhouses."
When Horse Slaughter Comes to Town: Economic Growth and Community Image | Int'l Fund for Horses

"USDA statistics show that more than 92 percent of horses slaughtered are in good condition and able to live productive lives. In California, where horse slaughter was banned in 1998, there has been no corresponding rise in cruelty and neglect cases, while horse theft dropped by 34 percent after the ban. In Illinois, when the plant was shut down for two years, horse neglect and abuse decreased in the state. Allowing one's horse to starve is not an option in any state—state anti-cruelty laws prohibit such neglect. Most horses who go to slaughter are not unwanted, but rather wind up in the hands of killer buyers because they are in good health and will bring a better price per pound for their meat. Providing for a horse, including humane euthanasia when necessary, is just part of responsible ownership"
The Facts On Horse Slaughter : The Humane Society of the United States

"A peer reviewed scientific study tracing race horses sent to slaughter for human consumption has found that 100% of the horses in the study group had been administered phenylbutazone, a banned carcinogen that can also fatally damage the bone marrow of humans."
Contaminated horse meat a health risk, according to study

“Most horses are treated with drugs that make them unsafe for human consumption, and ZOOS are moving away from use of horse meat.

“Slaughtering horses can never be humane. They are extreme flight animals. When they enter the kill box, they become very agitated, making it near impossible to execute a humane kill,” Beckstead continued. “This is a major betrayal to our horses. We would never slaughter our cats and dogs, so why should we do it to them?”
Wyoming Governor Enacts Legislation To Initiate Horse Slaughter | The Chronicle of the Horse

"Horse slaughterhouses use the same type of stalls and techniques as cattle slaughterhouses. These stalls are too wide for horses and the captive-bolt stun gun method used with cattle is ill-suited for horses. Horses are an extreme example of a flight animal. The panic and instinctive desire to escape they experience in the slaughterhouse causes them to thrash their heads frantically in the kill chute, making it difficult to effectively stun them prior to slaughter. Witnesses (and video footage) document horses subjected to a sharp blow to the head from the captive-bolt gun three or four times before they are rendered unconscious for exsanguination. In a recent investigation of carcasses discarded by a Canadian slaughterhouse, skulls of many horses processed for meat were found without any holes from a stun gun or rifle whatsoever!"









Mexico Slaughter House








this horse is TERRIFIED. fixing to be killed horrificly and inhumanely!


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## manhirwen

Clair said:


> And ps, I LOVE the Anne McCaffrey reference in your sig.
> Go fantasy!


Thanks! I love her books, especially the series about Pern.


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## hillarymorganstovall

wild_spot, I was referring to American's being misguided. I understand that in other countries some horses are raised for consumption. So I know it's viewed differently. And I'm sure american's on here will say the same you did, but it's what I believe. 

I also think that when someone purchases a horse, they know they will not live forever. Just like they know they will pay vet/farrier/dental fees they know they will have to put down and dispose of the horse. If they can't do that humanely, they shouldn't own a horse.

I know that zoos will shoot and dispose of your horse for you. The thought of that also makes me cringe, but I agree it is a much better option than slaughter. When it comes time to sell a horse a person should step up and vet the prospective buyers check their paddocks and references and make sure it's a good home. Some horses will slip through, but at least the owner exhausted every possibility to get it a good home. 

I still disagree about the kill boxes and captive bolt guns. The physical make up of the horse makes me believe this. They are flighty and agile and have are fighters. They don't stand still for this. Especially a head shy horse, and with a big ole scary thing coming at em like that they all would be head shy. I still believe it's just what people are told and chose to believe so they can justify it. 

I would like to see the papers and articles that claim the stun gun is effective even 70% of the time. It would honestly help me sleep better at night.

"Once they arrive, their suffering intensifies—undercover footage obtained by The Humane Society of the United States demonstrates that fully conscious horses are shackled and hoisted by the rear leg and have their throats slit. Because horses are skittish by nature, it is particularly difficult to align them correctly and ensure the captive bolt stun gun renders them unconscious."

Common Myths about Horse Slaughter | The Humane Society of the United States


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## hillarymorganstovall

Also, my link didn't work up there^^^

Horse slaughterhouses use the same type of stalls and techniques as cattle slaughterhouses. These stalls are too wide for horses and the captive-bolt stun gun method used with cattle is ill-suited for horses. Horses are an extreme example of a flight animal. The panic and instinctive desire to escape they experience in the slaughterhouse causes them to thrash their heads frantically in the kill chute, making it difficult to effectively stun them prior to slaughter. Witnesses (and video footage) document horses subjected to a sharp blow to the head from the captive-bolt gun three or four times before they are rendered unconscious for exsanguination. In a recent investigation of carcasses discarded by a Canadian slaughterhouse, skulls of many horses processed for meat were found without any holes from a stun gun or rifle whatsoever!

http://www.hsi.org/issues/horse_slaughter/facts/canada_horse_slaughter.html
(Copy and Past)



http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/captive_bolt.htm


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## purplefoal

Nobody is pro-slaughter... but sometimes it is inevitable. I feel that we should work to prevent horse slaughter and rescue those rescuable and on the road to the slaughter house. Sometimes, however, there is a horse in such a dire condition that it would be euthanized, anyway. People should try to prevent savable horses from going to slaughter and keep slaughter humane... but what must be done must be done.


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## wild_spot

I don't think there are many horses here raised only for human consumption, I just know that the majority of horses that are slaughtered are not destined for human consumption.

I think it is viewed differently here because it is quite a common part of life - not just for horses - But I think a lot of Americans are further removed from animal processing so don't really have an accurate view of the situation.

I'm not hardcore in my beliefs either way - I'm actually kind of ambivalent. I don't like it, and I wish it wasnt necessary - but I also believe that while there is supply there will be demand, and it can be an out for some disadvantaged horses.

I am not sure of the restraint used on horses here in Australia - I do not know if it is the same as the US and they just use the cattle bay, however I have a feeling i read somewhere that they don't. There isn't nearly as much public outcry over slaughter here so there aren't as many videos, etc, that are circulated.

This article discusses the many different methods of Euthanasia, captive bolt gun being one of them. If placed correctly it is supremely effective:

Emergency Euthanasia of Horses; UC Davis Veterinary Medicine Extension

This article has comments from a number of vets and other secialists:

The Horse | Captive Bolt Controversy

The thing is, you can find articles to support any point of view, and it's up to the individual to rely on their own intellect and not so much what is written by other, on either side.


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## hillarymorganstovall

"I am not sure of the restraint used on horses here in Australia - I do not know if it is the same as the US and they just use the cattle bay, however I have a feeling i read somewhere that they don't."

That's exactly right.. I was just writing another thing, and when I was done I saw your post. The study below states that a captive bolt can be affective, but proper placement is critical, and for proper placement you have to have restraints and they aren't used in mexican or canadian plants.

And I want to say, I am VERY hardcore about ending slaughter of american horses!


Sooo sorry to post AGAIN, but I just found a great study that I think is important for people to know. I hope people that read this thread will definitely check the following links even if you don't look at the others!! 


This is part of a study done about slaughter (link is below)

"The penetrating captive bolt followed by immediate exsanguination (bleeding out) has been the preferred method of achieving insensibility of equines in American slaughterhouses since the early 1980’s. The mode of action of a penetrating captive bolt gun is concussion and trauma to the brain. This requires that it be held firmly against the surface of the head over the intended site. Because placement and positioning of the projectile is critical, some degree of restraint is required for proper use of this device.

While the destruction of brain tissue with the penetrating captive bolt may be sufficient to result in death, operators are strongly advised to ensure death by exsanguination."


"It is important to note that in the foreign owned equine slaughterhouses operating in the United States, no form of restraint is used when the equine is in the kill chute or ‘knock box’ waiting for the penetrating captive bolt to be applied. In some instances, it takes several attempts to effectively apply the penetrating captive bolt the equine, if this is achieved at all. The use of the penetrating captive bolt is in violation of 7 U.S.C.A. § 1902 (a) of the Humane Slaughter Act as this methodology requires more than one blow and is inefficient at rendering equines immediately insensible."


"Use of the captive bolt causes extreme pain.
In a study conducted at Hanover University, EEG and ECG recordings were taken on all animals to measure the condition of the brain and heart during the course of slaughter and stunning. EEG readings showed that although the animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning with the penetrating captive bolt, they were experiencing severe pain immediately after stunning."

"Horses regain consciousness approximately 30 seconds after the captive bolt is applied.

Due to the inherent differences in skull structures of bovines and equines, each species reacts to the captive bolt differently. THE BRAIN OF AN EQUINE IS FURTHER BACK IN THE SKULL COMPARED TO A BOVINE. The equines regain consciousness and are not insensible to pain shortly after they are shackled and hoisted. Therefore, they are very much aware of being butchered alive."


This study claims that a stun gun _will_ work with the use of restraints, but restraints are not used to keep the horse still. 
USE OF THE 'PENETRATING CAPTIVE BOLT'

And this study claims that the captive bolt gun is EXTREMELY painful to all animals.
Why Islamic method of Slaughtering animals is better? A scientific reason


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## wild_spot

> "Horses regain consciousness approximately 30 seconds after the captive bolt is applied.
> 
> Due to the inherent differences in skull structures of bovines and equines, each species reacts to the captive bolt differently. THE BRAIN OF AN EQUINE IS FURTHER BACK IN THE SKULL COMPARED TO A BOVINE. The equines regain consciousness and are not insensible to pain shortly after they are shackled and hoisted. Therefore, they are very much aware of being butchered alive."


See - Most of the studies I have read state that the captive bolt gun used properly results in death. I don't understand how they can state that it never does, and horses regain conciousness - the captive bolt gun, used properly, destroys the section of brain.

I honestly think that they should work on better regulating the use of the captive bolt gun - As it is very effective. Mandating proper restraints designed for use with horses to ensure that the captive bolt gun can be used as intended and to it's full effect.

Ugh, my brain feels like mush today, i'm not having much luck articulating what i'm trying to say.


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## hillarymorganstovall

wild_spot said:


> See - Most of the studies I have read state that the captive bolt gun used properly results in death. I don't understand how they can state that it never does, and horses regain conciousness - the captive bolt gun, used properly, destroys the section of brain.
> 
> I honestly think that they should work on better regulating the use of the captive bolt gun - As it is very effective. Mandating proper restraints designed for use with horses to ensure that the captive bolt gun can be used as intended and to it's full effect.
> 
> Ugh, my brain feels like mush today, i'm not having much luck articulating what i'm trying to say.


That's the difference. Yall have restraints (I'm assuming from your earlier post) and in Canada and Mexico they don't. I gather, if used properly it will work on the horse, but when used improperly I doesn't, and if it hits in the wrong area, it only temporarily affects them. 

Though there is a link on a post earlier to a study that was done on Islamic animal slaughter (cutting the neck completely across) vs western animal slaughter. Claiming it was very painful. I had never heard this before. It is shocking.


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## Alwaysbehind

hillarymorganstovall said:


> Pro-slaughter people are either heartless or have been sadly misguided and are holding onto false reasons. The only way to stop the overpopulation of horses is to STOP BREEDING for the time being.


Glad you feel the need to call others names just because they do not run around in rose colored glasses like you do.

I am not from another country. I am right here in the good 'ol USofA. 

I personally think slaughter serves a purpose. A good purpose. I see no reason to waste perfectly good meat. I think having an end use (meat) is a great way to deal with the problem that we have. And heck, it is very green if you think about it. Isn't being green the in thing right now. Slaughter is a form of recycling and not being wasteful.

We need to stop breeding too many cats and dogs too. But that is not going to happen any sooner than too many horses will. So dream on. When you wake up and you can afford to feed and house all the extra animals then we can do it your way.

Also, if you are so against how slaughter is done in Canada and Mexico then help re-open the plants here so that slaughter can be done in the most humane way possible right here where we can regulate it.

All slaughter should be done in the most humane way possible. Period. 

Note, I disagreed with you and did not call you any names.


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## hillarymorganstovall

Alwaysbehind, I posted my opinion about the issue, that's all. When you say that it is "GREEN" and that the plants in the US were "HUMANE" I feel you _are _very misguided. However, if you know the facts, and you still refuse to use your logic then you are responsible for misguiding others, and I _do_ find that heartless.

If you follow the links on my post instead of getting bent out of shape and just blindly disagreeing because I think you don't know all of the facts, you would know that the slaughter houses in the USA were horribly out of compliance with waste removal rules, completely inhumane and are like a cancer to our society. 

Eco-friendly is very very 'in' right now, that's why I posted links to studies of the pollution the plants create. 

Cancer is never 'in' so the "perfectly good meat" that you mention is riddled with carcinogens that cause sever, likely fatal, illnesses in those that ingest it. THERE IS NO WITHDRAWAL PERIOD FOR BUTE. When zoos quit feeding the meat to their animals, I find it's time to quit serving it to our fellow human beings overseas. 

I think that the EU will be enforcing their new regulations on contaminated american horse meat July 31. 

I also don't find that $35 or saving $1000 is worth watching poor ole fluffy march through a slaughter house terrified and fighting for her life only to be brutally 'processed.' I also don't think it's cool to put an animal through that because you want a younger, better version to show. HORSES DO NOT LIVE FOREVER! YOU KNOW WHEN YOU PURCHASE ONE THAT EVENTUALLY YOU WILL HAVE TO EUTH. AND DISPOSE OF THE ANIMAL. YOU SHOULD PAY THOSE FEES JUST LIKE YOU WOULD PAY VET/FARRIER/DENTAL FEES. Man up and let your horse go with peace and dignity. 

I know that not everyone cares about animals wellbeing, that's why I posted links to studies and papers and articles that PROVE that horse slaughter is not only bad for the horses involved, but is also bad for our ECONOMY in the good ole US of A, HEALTH of those who eat it, ENVIRONMENT and is also relates to the HIGHER CRIME RATES.

Who benefits from this? The only people who do are the owners of these plant, and I promise you they are sitting back somewhere giggling like little girls, counting their money and wondering how so many people are standing up and fighting for their profit.


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## HeroMyOttb

I am not going to put any input on this because these things can get pretty heated about this topic and plus im quite biased bout this topic because my AMAZING horse was saved from slaughter...


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## hillarymorganstovall

Thank you for rescuing, and God bless you


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## roro

I'm against slaughter. It just made more sense to me than being pro-slaughter. I'm not about to get into a fruitless slaughter debate with a pros either, I've done it a few times and I learned nothing new nor were my views shifted (as well as vice versa).


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## Alwaysbehind

Laugh.... Everyone who does not agree with you is evil and wrong. What a mature attitude.

And yes, it is called not wasting. Ever tried it? Obviously not.


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## aandbminis

I am against it, can't stand the thought of these wonderful animals being tortured(which is what it seems like is being done to me) A lot of my horses are older and I got them when they were old just to give them a great home until they pass on. I LOVE older horses. I hate the thought of dogs/cats in shelters being put down but at least it is done for the most part humanely. I guess I don't understand why horses don't deserve the same as a shelter dog would get if it needed to be done.


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## Alwaysbehind

aandbminis said:


> I guess I don't understand why horses don't deserve the same as a shelter dog would get if it needed to be done.


I personally think the fact that we dispose of all the euthanized shelter animals is a horrible waste of perfectly good meat. 
There are cultures that eat dog and cat meat. 

Do you think Moos and pigs deserve the same as a shelter dog? Or is killing other animals OK with you, just not horses?

Horses cost quite a bit more to euthanize and dispose of than a dog or a cat. Lets start there. Add that horses are livestock. Not pets.


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## aandbminis

I was not rude to you. Your response to me seems really rude as I was only saying what I believed in. I was not rude to you but then I suppose next you are going to say that we shouldn't waste the meat when people die after all some cultures eat it. It doesn't make it right sometimes you have to have morals, and btw I don't like the conditions period that all animals go through in slaughterhouses but since we are talking about horses I didn't really go into it. I'm sorry but there must be another way besides torture. Pigs and cows are raised for meat btw not horses in this country, not that they should be tortured either.


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## Alwaysbehind

Was not being rude. Sorry if you took it that way.

I was just giving my opinion.

I do not see slaughter as torture. Though I am all for making it as humane as possible. Stressed meat is not good meat.


We do harvest human parts. Not for food, but for transplant. Kind of the same thing.


I am not saying we should end the lives of cats, dogs, puppies and kittens in a cruel way. I am saying their lives are being ended anyway. Why not let their deaths not be a waste.


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## aandbminis

lol ok I guess we will agree to disagree. If it needs to be done that I just would like it as humane as possible and it seems on the point we both agree


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## Alwaysbehind

aandbminis said:


> I just would like it as humane as possible and it seems on the point we both agree


I would guess that everyone agrees with that!!!!!!!!


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## mls

hillarymorganstovall said:


> captive-bolt stun gun method used with cattle is ill-suited for horses


Sorry - captive bolt is a very human way to ethuanize a horse. Please note the AAEP's stand on it -

http://www.aaep.org/pdfs/AAEP_Position_HR503.pdf


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## manhirwen

To me horses, cows, pigs, dogs and cats are all just animals. I eat meat, I am not against eating meat. I don't know why people project human emotions upon their animals but that's just not how it is. I love my horse, and he tolerates me, but when it's time for him to go I would like his body recycled somehow. Whether it is meat, leather (not sure horse leather is any good), bones, or hair. There are millions of people in the world who are starving to death and it would be a selfish and wrong thing for one to waste so much.


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## Sissimut-icehestar

I'm all for slaughter. I'm one of those foreigners on here so the slaugher process is different and viewed differently here. If you breed something that turns out to be sub-standard to the slaugherhouse it goes.
The process is heavily regulated, there are rules about the transportation (the horses must be given rest stops and fed after a certain amount of time on the truck) and the actual slaughter.
And I like horse meat. I actually prefer it over cow meat.
Ps. I like to think of myself as not being heartless.


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## Speed Racer

Sissimut, it's only the_ rabid_ antis who think the people that aren't against processing and eating horses are horrible, evil, unfeeling monsters.

I don't have a problem with differing opinions, but I do take exception when those who don't agree with my position call me names and question my ability to care for and love my own animals.

I like all sorts of animals, but don't set the horse above any other livestock when it comes to whether or not someone should be able to eat them.

The Hindus don't eat cattle because they're considered sacred in their culture, but you don't see any of them screaming, hollering, rending their garments, and having hysterical fits because the rest of the world eats them.

Nobody's saying anyone_ else's_ horse has to wind up at slaughter, but that's an individual decision and should be left up to the owner. I won't send any of mine there, but it's not my place to say someone else _can't_. 

People need to be careful of the rights they're trying to suppress, because theirs may be next on the agenda.


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## payette

I think this whole issue is very sad. All animals that are slaughtered deserve to die in the most comfortable manner possible. Animals should not have to be crammed into trucks for hundreds of miles to be sent to die. I don't believe slaughter or lack thereof affects the neglected/abandoned horse issue. (That is a whole 'nother can of worms!) I wouldn't say I am for or against slaughter. Incedentally, I've heard horsemeat is good. I've not tried it. I guess my stand on slaughter is not much of a stand. . .


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## Speed Racer

Payette, it's a multi-faceted issue, that's for sure.

There aren't any of us, anti _or _pro, who believe that the current system is the best way to process meat animals.

_All_ animals should be properly cared for from birth to death regardless of how that death occurs, whether it be by natural causes, euthanasia, or slaughter.

What happens to the animal after death is immaterial, as far as I'm concerned. What happens to it _before_ it meets its fate is what concerns me.


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## tanjam

There have been quiet a few opions on slaughter.
I can see the point that was made from Australia. Slaughter isn't an issue.
I can see our point...we breed and discard horses because it is so easy to send them to slaughter.

All I can say, unless we americans eat horsemeat, we should not slaughter to export the meat to other countries who don't have the facilities or land to breed raise and slaughter their own horses.
Over 80% of the horse meat is exported to European countries and Japan and just every 10th horses out of all being slaughtered needed to be destroyed for obvious reasons as sickness age or else.

Here in north america, we breed horses to produce the meat for foreign countries. 
I myself lived in germany and my friends ate horse meat. I did not have a problem with this, never ate it myself, but to come to Canada and really see how much suffering a horse has to go through to be slaughtered, is horrific.
In germany we think...the meat we eat is from horses that were old sick vicous or damaged in other ways. If we would know that america breeds horses to kill them for germans to eat it, it would be different.
I never knew about all this before I actually moved close to the slaughter house in Fort macleod, Bouvry plant.
Those horses are not old or sick. There are beautiful young animals discarded because this option is easy, pays some money and the demand is there.

As of eating horse meat and not having a problem with it.
Horses will get a certain amount of medications during their live time and the meat is teinted with this drugs, not healthy for humans to eat.
Might as well eat it and get the pay out...is what I think.

112.887 horses slaughtered just in Canada in 2008 is not because nobody wanted them, but because meat pays good.

No slaughter house facility can operate a plant in a commercial way and make it humane for the horses. This is impossible.

Prooven is, that it will take the guy with the stunt gun up to three times to be able to bring down a horse. Video footage has shown that several horses, that had been stuned, lifted up on their hindlegs to get their throat cut to bleed out, were still alive when the guy with the chain saw came to chop off the hooves. This is not humane, this is disgusting.

A horse, once it is set up for slaughter will sense the fear of others, smell the blood of the one before, sees the horses in front of it already being hung up, throat cut, hooves chopped off and it knows what will happen to it. A horse will not just stand there and wait for the killer to kill it.
I agree. kill boxes that the horses are killed in are not designed for horses, but for livestock as of cattle. The floor is slippery to their hooves, the walls are not high enough and the guns are not made to kill a horse but a cow.

All this is wrong and it couldn't be any wronger and we have to stand up for the horse and prevent this from happen.

Bring it on the pasture, shoot it between the eyes and use the meat to feed the animals in the zoo or the wild life or what have you not. 
Don't collect them to slaughter and have them suffer this way to the end. This is inhumane and anybody who has seen the under cover footage, all the pictures, knows about transportation issues and has any clue about this whole thing going on, and still says it is ok to do so....is just not worth my time to discuss the massacre of horses.

If other countries wouldn't eat this meat, we wouldn't have commercial slaughter nor over breeding. Slaughter wouldn't be an issue if we would just slaughter the horses that need to be destroyed.

Money rules the world and as long there is money to be made on slaughter, it won't stop unless we stand up for the horses and make it stop.


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## Speed Racer

Tanjam, your post is so full of misinformation, misconceptions, and just downright propaganda I can't take it seriously.

I'm not sure where you got your 'information', but I'm fairly certain it was all from the likes of PETA, HSUS and Youtube animal rights videos.


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## tanjam

Speed Racer said:


> Sissimut, it's only the_ rabid_ antis who think the people that aren't against processing and eating horses are horrible, evil, unfeeling monsters.
> 
> I don't have a problem with differing opinions, but I do take exception when those who don't agree with my position call me names and question my ability to care for and love my own animals.
> 
> I like all sorts of animals, but don't set the horse above any other livestock when it comes to whether or not someone should be able to eat them.
> 
> The Hindus don't eat cattle because they're considered sacred in their culture, but you don't see any of them screaming, hollering, rending their garments, and having hysterical fits because the rest of the world eats them.
> 
> Nobody's saying anyone_ else's_ horse has to wind up at slaughter, but that's an individual decision and should be left up to the owner. I won't send any of mine there, but it's not my place to say someone else _can't_.
> 
> People need to be careful of the rights they're trying to suppress, because theirs may be next on the agenda.


 
I think if you eat horse, slaughter it, if you eat cow, slaughter it.
Them Hindus might not eat cattle, but they wouldn't slaughter them to feed america either?

If Americans would eat horsemeat, but they don't! They just fill the order of a country that eats horse.
Maybe north america should make their horse a sacred animal. I bet in this case they would not breed them to slaughter them to sell them to Europe and Japan.

The slaughter was never a real issue, but when it got commercial and not the need but the greed kicked in, it became a shame for this country.


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## hillarymorganstovall

Alwaysbehind said:


> Laugh.... Everyone who does not agree with you is evil and wrong. What a mature attitude.
> 
> And yes, it is called not wasting. Ever tried it? Obviously not.


Sorry if you took what I said as an insult, but I get to post my opinions just like you do. That's all that it was, a general opinion. I would also like to say that you are the one that has made a personal attack. 

You should realize that there is a difference in having a problem with disagreeing and a having a moral problem with what someone does or thinks. I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me, I find it a chance to expand the way I think. However, I think that people who abuse animals or are ok with abusing animals are heartless. That is just my opinion. I also think of horse slaughter as horrific abuse. Obviously you don't, and I'm over trying to explain or convince or whatever that to you. I have seen how the animals are treated inside a processing plant, maybe you haven't or maybe you've seen something that wasn't as terrible as what I have. 

Regardless, I hate you're feelings are hurt, but this is something I'm passionate about. I agree with others, this is obviously a fruitless debate. I posted great links to proven information, but if people just refuse to check them out and reevaluate their opinions I'm wasting my time. I can only hope that I have changed the minds of one or two people.




"I'm all for slaughter. I'm one of those foreigners on here so the slaugher process is different and viewed differently here. If you breed something that turns out to be sub-standard to the slaugherhouse it goes.
The process is heavily regulated, there are rules about the transportation (the horses must be given rest stops and fed after a certain amount of time on the truck) and the actual slaughter.
And I like horse meat. I actually prefer it over cow meat.
Ps. I like to think of myself as not being heartless."

As I said, I only know about american horse slaughter. It was not regulated here, and is not regulated in mex. or can. I didn't mean to comment on foreign slaughter. From what you said, It sounds much more humane. I don't know.


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## Sissimut-icehestar

hillarymorganstovall said:


> As I said, I only know about american horse slaughter. It was not regulated here, and is not regulated in mex. or can. I didn't mean to comment on foreign slaughter. From what you said, It sounds much more humane. I don't know.


If that's what you meant then maybe you shouldn't have made a general statement claiming _everyone_ who agrees with slaughter to be heartless. Although I didn't take offence I think it was quite rude.


Also, if you are exporting so much horsemeat it must bring some of currency to your economy.


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## hillarymorganstovall

It actually doesn't. All of the slaughter houses are foreign owned and when the dallas crown plant's records were exposed in court they showed that they had recieved over 5 million dollars of US federal funding, made a profit of 12 million dollars and payed only 5 dollars in taxes. They are actually a drain on the economy.


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## alli09

Speed Racer said:


> Tanjam, your post is so full of misinformation, misconceptions, and just downright propaganda I can't take it seriously.
> 
> I'm not sure where you got your 'information', but I'm fairly certain it was all from the likes of PETA, HSUS and Youtube animal rights videos.


If it is one thing that ****es me off it is pro-slaughter people saying our information is propaganda and theirs is 100% fact :-x


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## Lis

^Like your information posted on another thread that was two years out of date at least?

I am pro-humane-slaughter. I eat meat so how can I say just because I prefer one animal over another that animal shouldn't be killed for meat when the others are? People eat it so it is being used as well as being used for other purposes such as pet food etc. Like has been suggested if you don't like transporting horses miles to get to a Mexican or Canadian slaughter house then reopen the ones you have and regulated them strictly. Make sure that the horses are killed humanely and handled well before they're killed. They provide jobs for people, surely that's a good thing unless I've missed something? I do feel if you have a problem with horse slaughter because horses are being slaughtered then you should also have a problem with all slaughter.


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## Alwaysbehind

tanjam said:


> If Americans would eat horsemeat, but they don't! They just fill the order of a country that eats horse.


I am sure lots of Americans would eat horse meat (it is two words) if they were able to buy it. A little technicality that throws you little theory out the window. :wink:

And explain to me what is wrong with producing products for export? Last time I checked that was a way of making revenue for the Country. So many people complain about the national debt and one of the biggest problem this Country has is that we import too much (buy too much) and do not export enough (sell enough).




hillarymorganstovall said:


> You should realize that there is a difference in having a problem with disagreeing and a having a moral problem with what someone does or thinks. I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me, I find it a chance to expand the way I think. However, I think that people who abuse animals or are ok with abusing animals are heartless.


You on your moral high ground are making quite the leap saying that just because someone is not against horse slaughter they have no problem with people abusing animals.





hillarymorganstovall said:


> As I said, I only know about american horse slaughter. It was not regulated here, and is not regulated in mex. or can.


It was and is regulated here. I am not sure where you got this little incorrect piece of information. But it very much is regulated here.



alli09 said:


> If it is one thing that ****es me off it is pro-slaughter people saying our information is propaganda and theirs is 100% fact :-x


Sorry you are unable to tell the difference.

You might note that people who are not against slaughter are not near so black and white as those of you who are ranting that we are evil and mean.

I personally (and I know I speak for others) think slaughter should be made as humane as possible. Do I think there are flaws and bad people and such? Most certainly.

You paint the whole industry with one sweeping brush and use the words always and never. That alone shows that you are missing facts.


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## MaggiStar

I am pro slaughter. Sure I would rather it wasn't needed but fact is everywhere is broke and you can bet if god forbid my family lost all our money and all my horses were sitting out there you can bet my horses would be loaded up and gone. There is not enough shelters and homes for the vast quantity of horses who need it.

However I dont like being branded "cruel mean and dont care" because Id rather see starving horses out of there misery and create money. Also ot is not cheap to euthanise by the time you have paid the vet and shifted the carcass your looking at large amount of money for poorer families. Clearly your not exposed enough to recession to see the sheer poverty people are going through they cant afford to get rid of there horse that way.

Also why s it ok to support and condone slaughter of sheep, lambs, calves, pigs yet as soon as the horse slaughter debate is raised to insult all for it? Each of the animals killed is going to be scared and frightened sure. But there not human they cant tell fear apart its a human attribute not a horse attribute.


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## manhirwen

I can guarantee that some of the posters on this thread did not read the ORIGINAL intent of the thread. It was for informational purposes only not for argument sake. Personally I would rather it be deleted all together instead of continued.


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## Speed Racer

Manhirwen, it's your thread. You can always alert the Mods and ask that it be closed, especially if it's taken a turn for the worse.

They may or may not delete it, but if it's closed no one can post to it.

Slaughter is a hot topic, which brings out the worst in some people.


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## manhirwen

The purpose for the thread is not finished and it no longer has a need to be open


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## erikaharmony

I live in Canada and we still have it here and most of the horses in America come up here, I would personally be OK with it, if they could figure out how to be more humane with it. They did it for cattle, time to figure something out for horses because they don't deserve to be treated the way they are.


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## alli09

But until it can be done right and people learn that these are living creatures, it should not be done at all. Now horse slaughter is JUST about the money and that is it.


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## ridergirl23

alli09 said:


> But until it can be done right and people learn that these are living creatures, it should not be done at all. Now horse slaughter is JUST about the money and that is it.


the problem isnt people have to learn they are living creatures.... the problem is they dont care. 
If it wasnt done at all, all the hroses would starve to death on the sides of roads or beaten to death or left to starve until all the bad people in the world learned to be nice or they all died... sooo until the human race dies... there would be no horse slaughter.

the problem is the mean people will slaughter a horse easily for money, but the nice people dont want to. so the job is left to the bad people.


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## wild_spot

What business in this world isn't about money?


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## Alwaysbehind

wild_spot said:


> What business in this world isn't about money?


Exactly. But I guess these people feel that slaughter can not be about money. Eye roll.


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## aspin231

In Canada and in the United States, overbreeding is the problem, quite frankly. If the animal was never bred in the first place it can't be slaughtered later on.
Recent undercover investigations by the Canadian Horse Defence Coalition (CHDC Chambers of Carnage) and later veterinary examination of such footge (http://www.defendhorsescanada.org/pdf/ziammermanonfootage.pdf), the first of which was most in-depth, shows that the current ways of processing were NOT humane.
_That being said, I believe that there should be a breeding tax imposed- not just to register your horse, but to breed at all- in Canada at least. For each foal born, the breeder would have to pay a nominal fee of say, 50 or 100 dollars. That would help to weed out the back yard breeders who's foals sell at auction for $25._
Just my two cents.


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## Just Ruthiey

I have no problem with horse slaughter. Granted I wish it didn't have to happen but some times its how things go. 
If horses are well taken care of during the process (which half the time they are not) then I don't have a problem with it. BUT most of the time it doesn't happen, sadly. 

I wouldn't send my horses to slaughter, I have tried to buy a few horses like that & give them a good home but I can't save every single horse. 

A cause n' affect essay seems amazing! I should do one for my writing class, wonder how it would turn out. 
Good luck!


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## manhirwen

I got an A on it


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