# Why cross ties?



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Why do people use cross ties exactly? I was raised in the "tie them to anything and they better just stand there" school (aka western trail), and then I come across the cross tie folks who simply won't tie any other way. When I have asked them, I have gotten a pitying smile. "I value my horse too much" they say, but I still don't really understand. 

I can understand the advantage for say washing or doctoring but just not clear on the I value my horse too much reasoning.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I've never thought of it as an either/or. It's just a convenient way to have a horse in an aisle while working around him for grooming/tacking/blanketing. Or, in case of a lesson, we'll have up to 4 horses crosstied in an aisle with students getting ready, but there's enough room on either the left or the right for people to pass by.

I guess maybe it's just what you're used to and how the barns are set up. Where I live, I've never been in a barn where cross-ties weren't used and rarely been in a barn that has a lot of options for hard tying to a fence or something like that.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I was schooled on the "cross ties are safer" notion.

But in my travels and working with a silly number of different people in different disciplines, I've come to the conclusion it is merely a matter of habit and opinion. Like so many things horse related.

Personally, I require every horse to stand quietly and move when asked regardless of where or how they are tied.


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## LoriF (Apr 3, 2015)

I think it's just more convenient to cross tie as it keeps the horse from moving and swinging his but around, but a horse that knows how to tie shouldn't be moving around that much anyway. I really don't think one is more dangerous than the other if they already know how to tie.


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## Horseychick87 (Feb 5, 2014)

The only issue I've seen with not cross tying is when someone ties their horse to a hitching post with the ends hanging out instead of set flush with the legs. (They look like this TT instead of this n ) and a horse puts it's head down and gets the rope wrapped around the ends poking out and hurt themselves.

Otherwise I'm in the, they better stand still while tied, regardless of how they are tied camp.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

Believe it or not, we've never used cross ties. All our horses stand well with the lead just looped loosely around something.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't understand why anyone would say it was always safer to cross tie - they're mostly used in barns with a center aisle so access movement either side of the horse is easier than it would be if the horse was standing tied to the side and across the aisle. 
 That doesn't mean the horse won't stand tied anywhere else to just one point if asked too 
As far as I can see its for convenience not safety


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Cross tying can be dangerous to the horse. Horses have been known to freak out in cross-ties, rearing then flipping over backwards. This can result in broken withers and or head trauma.


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## jamesqf (Oct 5, 2009)

Maybe it's just a cultural thing. I don't think I've ever seen a horse in cross ties: they don't have them at most trailheads  The only thing our horses get tied to is the trailer, and occasionally to trees &c.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

I think people just tend to stick with what they know best. Personally, I find that clostophobic horses freak out more on cross ties. Also, if things go sour, it much harder to get a horse off cross ties (if they haven't already gotten themselves loose). I do think it's important your horse does both, or just ties in general. One of the girl at my barn has a horse who does tie. She has to tack him in his stall, if she goes to a show someone has to be holding him at all times. I don't know how anyone can live like that! Here's my mare, tied to a tree! I can show her alone because she will tie and STAY TIED to anything! My friends were riding in the other rings behind and in front of her and she stood like a rock and watched the whole time! 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it's a convention designed for use in barns, for the aisleway. I don't personal care for them, but I understand the use. don't judge others' use of this until you have had the experience of having only an aisleway, or a box area to secure a horse, and need space around it to move around. it can keep the horse more in the middle. 

personally, I PREFER the horse being able to move around , side to side , a bit. but that's me.


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

SlideStop said:


> Here's my mare, tied to a tree! I can show her alone because she will tie and STAY TIED to anything! My friends were riding in the other rings behind and in front of her and she stood like a rock and watched the whole time!
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Off topic, but boy she's cute  She has such an adorable "is it my turn yet" look on her face!


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

jaydee said:


> I don't understand why anyone would say it was always safer to cross tie - they're mostly used in barns with a center aisle so access movement either side of the horse is easier than it would be if the horse was standing tied to the side and across the aisle.
> That doesn't mean the horse won't stand tied anywhere else to just one point if asked too
> As far as I can see its for convenience not safety


 Exactly, plus cross tying in not a substitute for teaching a horse to stand ties solid, alone.
A horse that ties solid, will also accept being cross tied, but the converse is not true
I see absolutely no reason for it, other than convenience, and horses should never be left un attended in cross ties
I can saddle, groom my horse, just as easily, tied solid, or ground tied, and I don't tie up an isle doing so.
Nothing more irritating then have someone at a show facility, tie up the isle, by cross tying their horse, although, as it is not really a western thing, does not happen often at shows I go to
I have taken horses in to the local farrier lab for shoing, where they accept being cross tied
Many trainers advise against cross tying, although, it can be okay, with you there, doing things like grooming ect, on a horse that is good on standing tied-period.
It can also be a wreak, waiting to happen
I don't cross tie horses on trial rides, or one day shows. They are tied up solid , there,over night, either to the trailer or using a hi line, thus cross trying has little use to me
here is some info on cross tying:

Dump this practice! Part I | Best Horse Practices


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

LoriF said:


> I think it's just more convenient to cross tie as it keeps the horse from moving and swinging his but around, but a horse that knows how to tie shouldn't be moving around that much anyway. I really don't think one is more dangerous than the other if they already know how to tie.


 Not true. 
Cross tying is never a safe way to tie a horse, esp one that does not give to pressure 100%, or left un attended
I like to be able to move the butt, as asked, and the horses I show with, tied int he barn isle, solid, to that stall front, very readily move over when asked, so one can lead a horse down that isle
I can tie my horse solid, go for lunch, show another horse,e ct, but would never leave a horse alone in cross ties. A horse can feel super trapped in them, and a reaction can have very serious consequences
This is my order of importance, far as tying

1 learning to accept being tied solid, alone
2 Ground tying, so you can groom, saddle, work within sight of the horse, like fixing a fence
#3 not needed, but if a horse ties solid, he will cross tie, in case someone wants to use those cross ties on him, like a new owner, farrier, ect

Number 1 , is the only real way to tie a horse, so that you can sleep in a tent overnight, go for lunch at a show or clinic, etc


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Cross tying is just another way of tying your horse. In busy barns it makes things a little bit easier, because it keeps the horses more or less in one spot and lined up the same way. I don't know that I've ever seen cross ties outside of a barn environment (e.g. at trailheads)

I don't know of any horses who will stand cross tied that won't single tie, though a lot of them will move around a lot more. I do know at least a few horses who will single tie (with varying degrees of standing still) but don't cross tie well.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about whether one method is safer than the other. If a horse is trained to tie, he shouldn't have an issue with either one. If he's not trained well to tie, then he could get in trouble either way, especially if whatever he's tied to isn't properly designed to begin with (and a lot of them aren't!)


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

My horses stand cross tied in the centre of the aisle in exactly the same way as they stand when tied to a single point, The 3 UK horses had never been cross tied until they came here but had no problem with it - my farrier likes them cross tied
There's no reason why cross ties should ever be a risk if you buy the ones with panic release clips and Velcro that splits under pressure


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

It's so nice that so many people share my opinion! I never have cross tied before, but that probably had something to do with the lack of barns with actual aisles. California horses often have to be content with a shade shelter in a corral.


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## EdmontonHorseGal (Jun 2, 2013)

i will always tie solid before cross tying. don't care for cross ties in barn aisles much - especially when they are attached to the barn in a haphazard way (like thin cable strung overhead with lightweight chain ties that slide along the cable and non quick release clips i saw at a prior barn i leased at - scary to think if that cable came loose from the wall!). 

i do think the idea of cross ties in a designated grooming/tacking stall is good though. it helps keep the horse centered for working around them, especially nice when you have lesson horses and beginner/new to horses people around them. you aren't clogging up the barn aisle this way either. one of my old '2nd home' barns back in the day had these and they were great. the cross ties were cotton lead ropes with quick release clips and securely fastened to thick posts.

in my experience cross ties in aisles make getting by the cross tied horse not as easy as a horse tied to one side of the aisle. especially if you are bringing another horse past. much easier and safer in my opinion to have that single tied horse moved over and have a human in between the tied horse and the one going by, for safety. you get double the barn aisle room that way as opposed to cross tying.


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## ecasey (Oct 18, 2013)

Personally, I like crossties when I'm grooming the couple horses at the barn that are known for nipping. They can't reach me in crossties! ha ha

And yes, I know to smack a horse who tries to bite. I'd just rather avoid the whole situation if I can, especially when it's not my horse.


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## Saskia (Aug 26, 2009)

I don't cross tie, however the place I learned to ride at had them. They didn't really have a barn Isle, and tying a horse outside their stable meant that the walkway was effectively completely blocked. 

So they had a bank of about eight cross tie 'stalls', they were undercover but open all sides and with a metal bar around elbow height between each of the stalls. Boarders would use them to saddle up etc in. In this case it worked well. I prefer tying but if you're in a situation where you want to have horses kept in very specific areas I think cross ties are the best.

While getting tangled in leadropes can happen k think it happens far less than people think. Tie up over chest height and short as so it won't drag and it's pretty safe.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Avna said:


> It's so nice that so many people share my opinion! I never have cross tied before, but that probably had something to do with the lack of barns with actual aisles. California horses often have to be content with a shade shelter in a corral.


Same here. I'm in Arizona, and the average owner with their horse at their own house usually doesn't have cross ties. Many of us don't even have a real barn. I've only seen cross ties at the big "fancy" barns.



Saddlebag said:


> Cross tying can be dangerous to the horse. Horses have been known to freak out in cross-ties, rearing then flipping over backwards. This can result in broken withers and or head trauma.


When at one the above mentioned big, fancy barns, I saw a horse freak out in cross ties and after scrambling around (on concrete!) he ended up in the middle of the barn isle facing the opposite direction. He was in a wash rack or some type of grooming stall to begin with. I don't remember if there was a rubber mat, but if there was, it didn't cover the complete area, because I remember the sound of a shod horse scrambling on concrete.  

Anyway, I can't answer the question of which is safer, but one of my few experiences with cross ties didn't make a big impression for safety! Of course I've seen horses freak out tied with a single rope too. But if you tied them short and high, it's a pretty safe way to tie. What you don't want to do is have them loose enough to get a leg over it. It's amazing how long some people will tie a horse......even people that have owned horses for a long time. Maybe cross ties are an attempt to take out some of the stupidity factor. :icon_rolleyes:


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## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

We cross tie at the race track as its safer when harnessing and keeps the head up higher and just over all easier, after the horse has been warmed up pre race they are cross tied in stalls until they go to the paddock where they are cross tied until they go out to race. Its just easier to manage. 

My saddle horses will tie wherever/however I tell them I am tying them. Most of them I don't need to tie to work around as they know better then to move when im working around them. So whatever is easier for me that day I do.

First two are the race horses... then my own at home before I had stalls were tied in the barn aisle whenever they had to stay in (storms)


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I like cross ties for bathing and grooming. stops a fidgety annoyed horse from turning alongside the hitching post and being a brat. It keeps them right in the center and where you can easily move all around them and in front of them. I also like hitching rails for tying for long periods and saddling.


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## bsms (Dec 31, 2010)

Dang! All I've ever had is a lead rope in one hand while grooming and tacking! Never tried tying a horse up for that...:think:


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## aclassicalpaint (Feb 11, 2015)

I use cross ties because my quick release knots are pathetic and _always_ come undone. Plus, I find it more efficient. Both my horses are very respectful of the cross ties. I worry when I have to tie them elsewhere. I never tie to a fence (we have vinyl fencing...yikes).


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## Katz1411 (Jul 31, 2014)

We cross tie in the barn aisle as there are usually horses in the stalls on either side. If we tied just to one side there could be conflicts with the stalled horses - cross tieing leaves some space to either side.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Cross ties,are rarely ever used in the UK. Horses are in a stable and are groomed, tacked up and mucked out whilst in the stable. 

Rarely did I ever bother to tie them for anything.

The only time they went into the aisle was for clipping as it was easier to sweep the hair up than pick it out th beds.


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## Rebelwithacause (Aug 7, 2013)

We use cross ties at my barn regularly. Since we have a mix of pasture boarding/ stall boarding/ lessons / etc all coming in and out of one main barn-- it is easier for those that stall board to get their horses up in the stalls and those of us who pasture board go catch, then cross tie out of the main walkway for those coming/going with lesson horses. Never really thought much of it until now!


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## SummerAwaits (May 18, 2013)

trailhorserider said:


> Same here. I'm in Arizona, and the average owner with their horse at their own house usually doesn't have cross ties. Many of us don't even have a real barn. I've only seen cross ties at the big "fancy" barns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am in Arizona too. Yeah I've only seen cross ties at the English barns really. I'm not a fan of cross ties. I like the old way too. I feel like on cross ties they can move around too much. The impatient horses are the worst on them. There are just some horses that shouldn't be cross tied. It's definitely a convenience thing for people.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

They can't move around on cross ties any more than they can move around on a single point tie - they can move their quarters from side to side but so can a horse single point tied
On cross ties you can get more access space all around the horse without having a long length of lead rope between the horse and the wall or having to untie them - really all about convenience and what works best for the location


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## Textan49 (Feb 13, 2015)

tinyliny said:


> it's a convention designed for use in barns, for the aisleway. I don't personal care for them, but I understand the use. don't judge others' use of this until you have had the experience of having only an aisleway, or a box area to secure a horse, and need space around it to move around. it can keep the horse more in the middle.
> 
> personally, I PREFER the horse being able to move around , side to side , a bit. but that's me.


They can be a convenience for keeping a horse in the center of the aisle so people can get by. I would say there is some risk to tying a horse in any situation unless the horse is well trained to stand tied. I don't understand how cross ties could be considered "safer"? I had cross ties that were adjustable and had the weanlings trained to stand on them. It made things easier since I was usually working alone, but I would never turn my back on a young or green horse on cross ties.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I personally prefer crossties, maybe just cause I'm used to it. In the stall I will single tie (well drape lead over wall lol)

I don't understand the "dangerous" part. If properly attached they are no more dangerous than any other type of tying, if anything they are less.

One must remember that one type of tying does not necessarily relate to another training wise. That's how accidents happen.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> I personally prefer crossties, maybe just cause I'm used to it. In the stall I will single tie (well drape lead over wall lol)
> 
> I don't understand the "dangerous" part. If properly attached they are no more dangerous than any other type of tying, if anything they are less.
> 
> One must remember that one type of tying does not necessarily relate to another training wise. That's how accidents happen.


Would you leave a horse,even taught to tie, unattended in cross ties?
They are more dangerous because a horse can feel trapped in them
This link , explains why


Dump this practice! Part I | Best Horse Practices

From that link:

The practice of cross-tying and using halters in the pasture are two good ways to hurt a horse and two of my pet peeves.
First, crossties:
Steady, well-trained horses give to pressure. But it’s stressful for a horse to give to pressure only to run into more pressure. That happens with crossties.
A horse might find it can escape pressure by going up, but that can yield tragic results.
It’s not hard to see why even calm horses can panic in crossties. Crosstie mechanics don’t allow the horse to investigate things by adjusting its head and putting both eyes on the pressure sources.


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## BiologyBrain (Jul 9, 2015)

Until I started reading on this forum I'd never seen anyone say cross-ties were unsafe. I've never owned a barn, but I've used many a well-spaced pair of trees as anchors for cross-ties. I've also tied many a horse short and high singly to many trees. Any tie method is only as good as the training the horse has and the rope/knot used to tie. 

Now that I have a stall I sometimes cross-tie Starlie and sometimes I tie her singly - it just depends on whether I want to allow her front end any movement. Technically, no matter how a horse is tied, their rear end can pivot around their front end. Cross-tying restricts the front end more - depending on how tight the ropes are. Of course having a superbly Well trained horse that doesn't move at all no matter how or if it is tied is the best way to have a horse, but that isn't always the case.

It's use like the post linked above quotes: 



> “The cross tie itself is not the problem, but a lack of preparation,” said Schiller. “Just like with most issues people have with their horses, their lack of preparation causes the issue, not the “thing” itself – trailer, lead change, cross ties, tie pole, collection, standing still, etc. etc.”


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If a horse is tied short to a single point they're just as 'restricted' and a lot of people do tie short to reduce the risks of the horse getting its leg over the rope or its head under the rope
The same rule applies to both - no horse is 100% 'bombproof, try to always have someone close by watching them, use quick release knots or snaps, use breakaway halters, use 'quick breaks' between the horse and the tie points, always keep a good sharp knife in your pocket. 
Basic common sense really


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Smilie said:


> They are more dangerous because a horse can feel trapped in them


I still don't see how it's any more dangerous. A horse that isn't trained to single tie will fight against a single tie as well. Once trained to tie (to a particular method), a horse understands where the pressure is coming from. My horse falls asleep on the cross ties when I groom him sometimes and will let the cross ties completely support his head. He is comfortable with the pressure on both sides of his head, as are almost all the horses in the 76 stall barn where I used to board him- certainly all of the lesson horses and horses that have been there for any length of time. It's a training issue just like single tying. Both are dangerous if the horse isn't trained to do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

verona1016 said:


> I still don't see how it's any more dangerous. A horse that isn't trained to single tie will fight against a single tie as well. Once trained to tie (to a particular method), a horse understands where the pressure is coming from. My horse falls asleep on the cross ties when I groom him sometimes and will let the cross ties completely support his head. He is comfortable with the pressure on both sides of his head, as are almost all the horses in the 76 stall barn where I used to board him- certainly all of the lesson horses and horses that have been there for any length of time. It's a training issue just like single tying. Both are dangerous if the horse isn't trained to do it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, a horse must be taught to give to pressure 100% , before being tied solid, BUT, if the method requires you to be there, watching the horse, versus leaving a horse well taught to accept being tied solid-tells you something!
You will see nowhere that it is recommended leaving a horse cross tied, alone, for extended periods
Tying for me, does not mean just for grooming, saddling ect, but being able to leave horse tied tot hew trailer , while I go for lunch, show another horse, or over night on a trail ride
Nothing wrong if you cross tie a horse for grooming, etc, with you there, if you prefer to do so, on a horse first taught to accept being tied solid, but to suggest it is just as good as having a horse accept being tied solid, is ludicrous, in the fact that horses, well trained to tie, as mine are, can be left over night on trail rides tied that way. I would not dream of cross tying a horse over night, while I slept
If just cross tying works for you, without teaching a horse to stand tied solid, then I imagine you never really 'tie'a horse, as in being able to leave that horse for several hours without being right there.


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## SEAmom (Jan 8, 2011)

I cross tie when they are provided because there's less wiggle room for the horse. Not all horses stand perfectly still and I don't care much if they do or not. A little shifting from side to side is fine for me. Anywhere that I would be tying at a single point, there's a good chance we'll be moving around to let horses through anyway and it's just a bigger hassle.


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

This, from a university site. Thee is a reason, it is recommended never to leave a horse alone in cross ties, and that fact negates the idea that cross tying is just as safe as tying solid. If you have to be there all the time, no matter how well trained the horse is to tie, then how can you argue it is as safe as tying single??????

'Cross-tying can be dangerous if not done properly, so it should be done only where there is secure footing, if possible where there is a wall a few feet behind the horse to keep it from backing up too far. Use cross-ties with safety snaps and set them high in the wall to prevent the horse from getting a leg over if it rears. The cross-ties should be made of material that can be cut quickly, and should be tied with enough slack for the horse to hold its head comfortably. Do not use rubber ties. If the horse pulls back, rubber ties can throw the horse backward if they break or forward when the horse gives. Never leave a horse unattended on cross-ties.


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## lostastirrup (Jan 6, 2015)

So I grew up riding at a barn with a hitching rail. No crossties because the BO said shed seen horses flip over in the crossties. Weird...you could just attach them with bailing twine so they snap in case of emergency. At the barn I am at now they cross tie. The horses are very comfortable with it and I think it is very efficient for the space- not having a bar or rail in the barn makes the space more accessable. Also I like how the crossties make it easier to doctor chest and face wounds as there is no rail between you and the horse to block the ministrations. At this barn the crossties are attached fairly loose but there is no way to hook a leg over and the crossties are attached to release in the event of a dangerous amount of pressure. The horse can still be cued to yield their quarters, and I havent seen any seem trapped, however I am new at crossties. I can imagine the TB back home with pulling back issue would not do well in crossties as he has little respect for halter pressure especially when nervous. But that is entirely related to a training issue which needs to be addressed and makes him dangerous to tie in any situation. 
Anyhow, you would never leave a horse crosstied, its more of a prep time kind of thing. These same horses that crosstie where I ride now are also perfectly happy attached to a a rail, or a bush or fence. Its for the convenience of the groom that crosstying is done, not as any sort of 'horse parking brake' It's more like sitting in neutral at a stop light before you drive on.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Smilie said:


> but to suggest it is just as good as having a horse accept being tied solid, is ludicrous, in the fact that horses, well trained to tie, as mine are, can be left over night on trail rides tied that way. I would not dream of cross tying a horse over night, while I slept
> If just cross tying works for you, without teaching a horse to stand tied solid, then I imagine you never really 'tie'a horse, as in being able to leave that horse for several hours without being right there.


Reading this I feel that you don't understand the purpose of cross ties - they aren't designed to leave a horse tied too all night long out on a trail camp and horses that stand quietly cross tied are as well trained to stand 'solid' as one tied to a single point - to do otherwise in either situation would be a danger to the horse
People who have center aisle barns use them when they're grooming, washing, clipping, farrier attention, tacking up, when they want to skip out a stable of a horse that's not being turned out. 
You don't go and stick a horse on the cross ties and then leave it there for the heck of it


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I don't think I know any horses who cross tie who don't also single tie. The ones I wouldn't trust in the cross ties are the same ones I wouldn't solid tie to a single point, either. I think they kind of build on each other- a horse should first learn to single tie and then to cross tie, much like you'd start a horse in a snaffle before progressing to a curb. (And on the same analogy... a lot of horses never have the need to progress to a curb, and a lot of horses never have the need to progress to cross ties!)



Smilie said:


> This, from a university site. Thee is a reason, it is recommended never to leave a horse alone in cross ties, and that fact negates the idea that cross tying is just as safe as tying solid. If you have to be there all the time, no matter how well trained the horse is to tie, then how can you argue it is as safe as tying single??????
> 
> 'Cross-tying can be dangerous if not done properly, so it should be done only where there is secure footing, if possible where there is a wall a few feet behind the horse to keep it from backing up too far. Use cross-ties with safety snaps and set them high in the wall to prevent the horse from getting a leg over if it rears. The cross-ties should be made of material that can be cut quickly, and should be tied with enough slack for the horse to hold its head comfortably. Do not use rubber ties. If the horse pulls back, rubber ties can throw the horse backward if they break or forward when the horse gives. Never leave a horse unattended on cross-ties.


The same website says not to leave _any_ tied horse unsupervised, especially if it's alone. I think that's good advice, but not always easy to follow. How often do you see horses tied to a trailer unattended at shows, for example?

But in reality, I don't often have any reason to leave my horse tied up unattended, other than the occasional running to get something I forgot from the car or tack room. If I'm going to be gone longer than a couple minutes I put my horse into his stall, or into the trailer if I'm away from home... I usually trailer alone so he has the whole thing to himself and with the divider tied open it's like a small stall.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I havn't read all the posts, but one of the things I don't like about cross ties is that they can confuse the horse as to learning about "coming off of the rope", meaning coming off of the pressure he feels on his face when he pulls against the rope. 

in the cross ties, if he pulls left, the right side cross tie engages and he feels a resistance. he should come off that resistance, and move toward the right. fair enough. if he goes too far, he instantly runs into resistance from the left. so he has to bounce back that way.

theoretically, the horse can learn to stay between those two points of pull, releasing himself by never pulling very far to either side. that might be a good thing. but, for horses that are worried about being held, the fact that as soon as they release themselves by going one way, off the pull, they run into a pull from the other side , can trigger a panic.
horse can seem to be ok tied, but then something happens, they move big, hit that resistance from both sides and they lose their marbles. a horse single tied can move off one way, yes, a bit of panic, but he gives himself room to get a release, and less likely to panic.

admittedly, if thehorse is well trained to respond to resistance on his head by coming off that resistance, instead of leaning back and pulling, then cross ties will be ok, but the double pull might be a bit more challenging if there's even a bit of worry in them.


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Like a few others have mentioned, I've always thought of them as a thing of convenience rather than a safety measure or a safety issue. Most of the barns where I've boarded have had at least a couple of crosstie sets, and whether or not I used them depended on the situation. The wash racks at a couple of my boarding barns have had crossties, and they were quite convenient. A couple of the barns where I've boarded also had sort of grooming/tacking stalls in the middle of the barn. So there would be open spaces with crossties stuck in the middle of the horse stalls to keep the barn aisle completely open, and they were super convenient. People would be able to tack up without being in the way of folks trying to walk horses down the aisle. If there were several people out at the same time some folks would have to tie to the stalls, but it was usually avoidable. 

I do NOT like crossties that are situated across the barn aisle, with one tie on one side and one tie on the other side. It's fine and dandy if you're in the barn by yourself, but so irritating to have to ask someone to unhook their horse just to walk yours by. I'd rather be able to just push a horse's butt over to walk by (assuming I know the horse, of course). In those situation I'd much rather people just tie singly to the stalls. 

The only time I've seen an issue happen in the crossties (and, granted, I've mostly been around well trained horses in the crossties) was years ago when a lady's TB was tied when it was crazy windy outside. A rogue branch managed to blow into the barn and slam into the wall behind where the horse was tied and he freaked. We settled him pretty easily and got him untied with no problem, and I'm sure it would have been an issue regardless of how it was tied since the darn thing nearly hit him...

So I guess the summary is I very much like them as a convenience measure to keep the barn aisle open if the barn is designed in such a manner. My current barn does not have such a setup, so I just tie to the stalls like everyone else.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Tinyliny - My cross ties have Velcro panic releases - they 'break' instantly within seconds so never any risk to a panicked horse. We did have an incident here when something happened to make the horse on the cross ties jump forward and they worked exactly as they are supposed too. It didn't frighten the horse and she still stands on the cross ties quite happily or with just a rope looped through a ring or even ground tied if needed
Good training and good equipment is what it all comes back too


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it always comes down to training. but, if a person thinks that that a horse that can barely tolerate being tied is going to do better in cross ties, I'd have to question that.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Assuming you have a horse trained to tie and give to pressure, attaching solidly to a tight single tie or attaching to well placed/adjusted crossties WITH an emergency release (everyone in this area uses baling twine it works well). There is NO more danger than there is with a single tie. Personally I feel there would be less.

Horse spooks, cross ties break VS horse spooks single tie holds tight, horse panics.

I do think cross tying solidly IS dangerous....that's why no one does it lol!

Yes horses can flip over...can they not also do that on a solid tie or hey, loose in the pasture?

Your horse must learn to tie and learn to adapt to both types, absolutely, I'm not suggesting just stick a horse on.

The picture posted with the halter broken in the crossties...what does that have to do with the crossties? Couldn't that just as easily be a single tie?

I have seen crossties break many many many times. I have NEVER seen a horse injured, traumatized (requiring retraining to put back on the ties) or even for that matter a halter break.

In fact I find solid tying far more dangerous as if there is a panic situation the horse cannot get away and even the best trained horse can end up fighting the rope.

How many tying accidents have we heard? Horses breaking necks and such...how many are from crossties?

All crossties should have an emergency release and be properly adjusted, the goal is not to have the horse bouncing between pressure points but standing calmly in the middle if they're "bouncing" it's waayyy too tight and asking for an accident. I think of it as those tie block things, they can pull but can't get away (unless they break both sides). Yes some horses learn they can break it but that's also a training thing.

You should be able to tie solidly as well, for sure. FWIW I know many horses that cross tie beautifully that I would never single tie, they do feel less trapped.

It's hard to see but in the picture posted that halter looks very "high up" so clearly the crossties were to tight which would cause a horse to feel trapped. Which by the way, the article posted clearly states that the crossties are NOT the problem.

Yes taking an unhandled/trained horse and tying it solid on crossties is dangerous. It's common sense, doesn't mean the ties are the problem.


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Okay, along these lines, has anyone used blocker ties as a quick release mechanism for either cross or single ties? 

picture of a blocker tie and ring.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

While I think those have their purpose (though haven't personally used them) I wouldn't use them in lieu of a quick release, because ultimately they do not release. I would not use those for crossties period, it would not be safe. You want something fixed and "breakable" (releaseable-completely).

I would use those, well try them out lol, for a horse that had issues solid tying.


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Avna said:


> Okay, along these lines, has anyone used blocker ties as a quick release mechanism for either cross or single ties?
> 
> picture of a blocker tie and ring.


I love these tie rings, but they need to be used correctly. There are a few different ways to secure the lead rope to them (Tying Options - Blocker Ranch) but I see people use them all the time like they're just a regular tie ring and just do a daisy chain with them. That keeps the rope from being able to slide through and defeats the purpose of using the Blocker ring.

Used correctly, the lead rope can slip through, a little at a time, and the horse will usually stop panicking before it hits the end of the rope. I did once see a horse pull all the way to the end (panicked at her first time in the wash rack) who then calmly walked herself back to her stall. She wasn't hurt or traumatized and AFAIK she never again pulled all the way through, so it didn't become a habit with her.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> it always comes down to training. but, if a person thinks that that a horse that can barely tolerate being tied is going to do better in cross ties, I'd have to question that.


I agree - no horse should be solid tied until its learnt to know what giving to pressure means

Blocker ties are good if you're in a situation where you want the horse to have more freedom, maybe lie down too but they still have a 'point of no return' if a horse panics badly and sometimes those extra few steps they can take actually helps them build up speed so they hit that 'end' a lot harder so I don't regard them as a training device


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I'd be hesitant to use the Blocker ring in any situation where you want/expect the horse to pull some of the rope through, or when you'd be leaving them unsupervised. Once they pull some of the rope through, they can end up tied pretty long, which means that eventually they _will_ get a leg over the rope. Now, if they panic with a trapped leg at least the rest of the rope will get pulled through and they'll free themselves, but it's kind of setting them up for failure at that point. I see them more as a 'backup plan' for horses that tie well (for example, if you have a horse that ties well and you want to leave him tied to the trailer; odds are he'll stand quietly the whole time, but what if you accidentally parked your trailer next to a nest of ground wasps and they swarm him?) or as a supervised training tool for horses that are learning to tie or have learned to pull back already. The ring doesn't release fast/easily enough for them to really gain any momentum.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Thought on blocker rings having the lead pulled through - many lead ropes have a knot or thicker end that might prevent that?

Then you have a horse tied high with a long lead rope.

Agree they should only be used supervised.


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## BiologyBrain (Jul 9, 2015)

There are many things that university websites, natural horseman, and bloggers opine as 'dangerous' yet have been well-known and well-used by good horsemen for generations without harm to horses or their handlers. I know read somewhere that one blogger/natural horseman wanted to outlaw lariats. Many of us know that is ridiculous. Just as some claim that all bits are damaging. Just because you can find a post (or even 10) on the internet claiming one method 'safer' than another doesn't make it true. In the horse-world, it comes down to tradition, what you've been taught, what your horse has been trained to accept, etc. There are no hard and fast rules except that whatever you do should not be done to harm your horse. We all know accidents happen with horses and we all take the best measures we can to protect them from these accidents. For some, one of those measures may be tying with a single rope, others may prefer to cross-tie, others may prefer to just loop the rope around a hitching rail or whatever... The point is that we all try to keep our horses safe by what we've learned is the safest method. 

All horses should be taught to stand tied quietly and calmly for as long as required. There are many ways to do that and there are many ways to tie the horse... It's up to the owner and trainer to decide which suits that particular horse and that particular need best.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> I havn't read all the posts, but one of the things I don't like about cross ties is that they can confuse the horse as to learning about "coming off of the rope", meaning coming off of the pressure he feels on his face when he pulls against the rope.
> 
> in the cross ties, if he pulls left, the right side cross tie engages and he feels a resistance. he should come off that resistance, and move toward the right. fair enough. if he goes too far, he instantly runs into resistance from the left. so he has to bounce back that way.
> 
> ...


In your scenario the ropes would be way too tight & could cause a panic.
I've been to places where the cross ties were so tight the horses couldn't move their heads at all. That is a recipe for disaster because as you stated they can feel trapped. 
My cross ties are all attached to tie rings so are easily adjustable & the horse can move their heads around.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Avna said:


> Okay, along these lines, has anyone used blocker ties as a quick release mechanism for either cross or single ties?
> 
> picture of a blocker tie and ring.


I do but only after the horse has had tie training using the ring. I use them in the trailer too.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Cross ties are great ONLY if the horse is calm and obedient tied to them. I have read for YEARS to attach the end of your cross ties to the stall with baling twine. =/ That is EXPECTING your horse to rear up and/or panic and break the ties. =/
I like the breakaway hooks only because I use failsafes, like I do not fully buckle my horse's Hamilton halters, just in case their do something stupid and I have to get close and take the halter off. This has happened to me 4x in the last 30 years, with 35 horses, but I was glad of my habits when it did. This is just for perspective.
If you horse ties calmy to a post, he should also tie calmy to cross ties. I did not have or use them in my barn in my back yard. I train my horses to turn on the forehand to the verbal cue "over", which I reinforce every time I groom. We all know that a tied horse will often shimmy up to the fence and you should never move around the horse, but always have the horse move around for YOU, hence the popularity of cross ties.
The down side of cross ties in a stable is the variable of a vicious or dominant out of control (often because of the horse OWNER) who may be walking by, or loose. I try to protect my GOOD horses from any others that might hurt them. I remember a fellow CW Reenactor who campaigned with an older and very gentle Arab mare. She was tied up next to an aggressive horse on their picket line and was kicked and really banged up in a horse fight. When my herd leader pulled that nonsense, I tied him at the end Directly to the tree, and kept his hind end too far away from the rest of the herd on the picket line to do any damage, so I've experienced this and learned from it.
If I want cross ties, in MY barn with MY three horses, who are a tight herd, I could do it. I just don't want to put any more holes in the wood. =D


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

lostastirrup said:


> So I grew up riding at a barn with a hitching rail. No crossties because the BO said shed seen horses flip over in the crossties. Weird...you could just attach them with bailing twine so they snap in case of emergency. At the barn I am at now they cross tie. The horses are very comfortable with it and I think it is very efficient for the space- not having a bar or rail in the barn makes the space more accessable. Also I like how the crossties make it easier to doctor chest and face wounds as there is no rail between you and the horse to block the ministrations. At this barn the crossties are attached fairly loose but there is no way to hook a leg over and the crossties are attached to release in the event of a dangerous amount of pressure. The horse can still be cued to yield their quarters, and I havent seen any seem trapped, however I am new at crossties. I can imagine the TB back home with pulling back issue would not do well in crossties as he has little respect for halter pressure especially when nervous. But that is entirely related to a training issue which needs to be addressed and makes him dangerous to tie in any situation.
> Anyhow, you would never leave a horse crosstied, its more of a prep time kind of thing. These same horses that crosstie where I ride now are also perfectly happy attached to a a rail, or a bush or fence. Its for the convenience of the groom that crosstying is done, not as any sort of 'horse parking brake' It's more like sitting in neutral at a stop light before you drive on.


Exactly, cross tying is an alternative to ground tying. It is not what i really consider 'tying a horse
A horse that ties, is not tied with string, so he can break away, nor is he always watched by a person, as that sorta defeats what ;real tying' is all about-able to lave a horse that way
I will often tie horse up, after working him, go do other work, ride another horse, etc, as this teaches horse both patience and has him learn life goes on without buddies
Thus, cross tying is better related to ground tying, which I use often for grooming , saddling etc, and which then can also be used out on the trail, allowing a horse to graze at noon break, or in an arena, while I get off and set up atrial course, or change it
Thus, it has it's use for that purpose, for those that like grooming horses that way, with that person never being far away. No problem used that way on a well trained horse, but I really have no use for it, as all my needs are covered by tying solid and ground tying


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

BBRAIN

"All horses should be taught to stand tied quietly and calmly for as long as required. There are many ways to do that and there are many ways to tie the horse... It's up to the owner and trainer to decide which suits that particular horse and that particular need best."

I agree with this BUT you can't compare two methods, not used in the same manner, and as someone with a science background, you must understand that principle

Thus, if you wish to compare tying a horse solid, with cross ties,, subject them to the same conditions. That means they are tested with both tying a horse short term, with the owner there, and for along term, with no one there. They are also both tied with just quick release knots, but not with strings or other breakaway devises
I for one would never leave even one of my horses, well trained to tie, unattended for hours in cross ties.
Thus, with the caveat of use for cross ties, you cannot conclude that they are just as safe to tie a horse, as you are not testing those systems equally
It is a method of convenience, used for purposes I don't even need to tie a horse. Many English barns in particular, love cross ties, but i doubt even those would tie their horse that way , beside in barns, for convenience
Just tying ahorse, allows me to move hips if I need to, and my horses spend enough time, 'really tied', that they don't fuss being tied, in fact, i have been known to forget for short periods, that I left a horse tied after riding, having gone to do some household chores, only to go back to the barn and find that horse waiting patiently


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## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Yogiwick said:


> Thought on blocker rings having the lead pulled through - many lead ropes have a knot or thicker end that might prevent that?
> 
> Then you have a horse tied high with a long lead rope.
> 
> Agree they should only be used supervised.


I find those blocker rings a cop out, far as teaching a horse to tie solid
Really teaching a horse to accept standing tied solid, seems to be missing in so many basic training programs
People compromise, using breakaway strings, just looping that rope, tie rings, never letting the horse out of their sight, ect
Those same people can't take a horse anywhere, where they must stand tied, un supervised. Load horses in and out of trailers, at shows with no stabling, because they can't leave them tied, going to show another horse, or even going to the bathroom
I find a horse that has not been taught to accept being tied solid, having a huge hole in training, and not really being that useful to me,until that hole is fixed
Yes, my horses will cross tie, as they are 100% solid on being tied. I used to take them to be shod, at the local farrier college, where cross ties were used in that farrier lab. I just have absolutely no reason to put some attachment in my barn isle for cross ties, as I find them redundant, at the least, and  quite useless in the other end , not really having any practical application besides a convenient way of 'tying/holding' a horse while you groom, etc


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

All of my horses will stand tied for as long as I want them too - to a single point or in cross ties, using breakaways like string, velcro, panic snaps etc are for 'safety nets purposes only because horses aren't machines and even the best can run back in a panic if (to use Verona's example) a swarm of wasps suddenly attacks them
I would, however, never leave a horse tied up short 'just for the sake of it', that isn't fair to the horse especially in the warm weather with flies around.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Smilie said:


> I find those blocker rings a cop out, far as teaching a horse to tie solid
> Really teaching a horse to accept standing tied solid, seems to be missing in so many basic training programs
> People compromise, using breakaway strings, just looping that rope, tie rings, never letting the horse out of their sight, ect
> Those same people can't take a horse anywhere, where they must stand tied, un supervised. Load horses in and out of trailers, at shows with no stabling, because they can't leave them tied, going to show another horse, or even going to the bathroom
> ...


I've reformed some die hard pullers using the tie rings & they now stand hard tied without testing. I've never had one panic or get injured. If it's a cop out it's the best one I've ever used.
Not all horses are started correctly & many have deep seated issues that people like me have to fix so I use what works & keeps everyone as safe as possible.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I also don't think breakaway safety apparatus are a "compromise" for not tying well. Yes some people do do that, but I personally expect me horses to actually tie solid but would like to be safe as well, I'm definitely not going to be happy if the horse breaks them and they would clearly need more training, but I don't expect them to break them nor do they, it would just be in case of an accident/freak situation. Even the best trained horses have moments.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Smilie said:


> BBRAIN
> 
> "All horses should be taught to stand tied quietly and calmly for as long as required. There are many ways to do that and there are many ways to tie the horse... It's up to the owner and trainer to decide which suits that particular horse and that particular need best."
> 
> ...


I have left a horse on crossties, with breakaway apparatus (see above post) many times. No issues. Vets use/recommend them often when they need a horse to stay standing.

I will not leave a horse that I don't consider to tie solid, but we can agree on that point!


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## DuckDodgers (May 28, 2013)

Yogiwick said:


> I also don't think breakaway safety apparatus are a "compromise" for not tying well. Yes some people do do that, but I personally expect me horses to actually tie solid but would like to be safe as well, I'm definitely not going to be happy if the horse breaks them and they would clearly need more training, but I don't expect them to break them nor do they, it would just be in case of an accident/freak situation. Even the best trained horses have moments.


Of course... why would folks assume that using breakaway pieces implies a lack of training? I certainly would use breakaways on horses that don't tie well, but if a horse does tie well then they (theoretically) won't ever challenge the system and get loose. Almost any breakaway system I've seen involves something like baling twine that will provide a fair amount of resistance for the horse to feel and respect, but will safely break in the event of a freak out. A well trained horse will stand quietly breakaway or not, but in the event of an incident can get away if necessary. An unavoidable incident such as the wasp next example, or the time my horse was standing tied along the arena wall and a ladder fell down nearly on top of him on the other side of the wall. He was definitely trained to tie, but I certainly don't blame him from attempting to flee the ladder that came crashing down right next to him... There wasn't any real breakaway system in place, but the tie ring was held on by a fairly thin piece of metal that straightened out to release it. The next day he was standing tied perfectly well behaved, and didn't try to challenge the ring. This was single tied, not cross tied BTW.


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## amberly (Dec 16, 2012)

I used to not understand cross ties either.
Before we started boarding at out current barn, we always tied them to a single post or whatever.
really - its kinda the same thing. They can still move around, but they can't move their head around as much.


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