# Best way to get a bald face



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

You know about Lethal White Syndrome, I hope? 

I'll be honest -- breeding for an unusual color or a flashy type of marking is often a path to breeding diseased horses. This is a good example. There is a good evolutionary reason why certain colors are rare.

I'll be even more brutal -- if you wanted to do something really great for Paint horses, select a sire with excellent hard feet. If you can find one. I have not met a Paint so far which did not have terrible hooves. 

I don't know the answer to your question (plus I really dislike bald faces -- pink noses and eye rims that sunburn and crust over with scabs is not my idea of a good look). 

Rant over. Carry on.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I agree with Avna, breeding for colour is never good. 

Why try to breed an animal with pink skin when this can lead to a horse suffering sun burn and other difficulties?


----------



## Boo Walker (Jul 25, 2012)

Go buy one.
Oh, and make sure he comes from good bloodlines, has the conformation to do the job you want and comes from parents with a sound mind.

If you were to breed your mare, does she have other outstanding qualities to pass on or just a bald face? If her foal does not have the bald face will you euthanize it or send it to auction? Then you have to try again. You see where I'm going with this?


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Gosh, we're a bunch of meanies, aren't we?


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

https://equusmagazine.com/management/are-markings-inherited-8641 this article will explain simply why it is a fallible plan. Add to that the issues with sun burn and I am not a fan. Nose is bad enough but when you have white around the eyes sun screens burn and cause additional irritation. I know too many that have had the rims tattooed to help but why encourage a marking that then needs a medical procedure.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Splash White is an Overo pattern and Splash 1 is not lethal in its homozygous state. It would be best to test your mare and see what she carries. If she carries SW1, then find an SW1 stallion that fits your criteria and breed them together. Test for all variations of SW as some are thought to be lethal in the homozygous form. Also test for LWO, which is KNOWN to be lethal in its homozygous form. If your mare tests positive for LWO then be sure to only breed to a stallion who is tested negative for it. Same with SW2, 3 & 4. 

All that said, it's probably easier to just go buy what you want, any breeding is always a crap shoot to some extent.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Buy one. Horses with bald faces are generally less popular due to sunburn and other issues (many people will pass up a horse with pink around the eyes), so if this is what you want, go buy it.


----------



## 4horses (Nov 26, 2012)

Yes, it would be easier to buy one. I just saw one on Craigslist

My paint has excellent hooves.


----------



## RockyMountainBaroque (Jun 7, 2017)

Best was to get a bald face, would be to buy one... Seriously, I mean you could be a geneticist and pick the "right" sires with the "right" genes to throw the color you want every time, and not EVER get the one you want... Why waste all those years and all that money when you can buy one already ready to go?


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

4horses said:


> Yes, it would be easier to buy one. I just saw one on Craigslist
> 
> My paint has excellent hooves.


Maybe you should consider breeding her! 
(joke)


----------



## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I am going to join the chorus of go buy one if that is the look you are going for. Also going to second (third or fourth) the advice about looking at where your horse will be kept as well as how it will be used. Bald faced horses can have eyeliner (black pigment around the eye or have pink skin around the eye) pink is less attractive and has health concerns associated with it at times


----------



## Irishminis (May 8, 2010)

Wow, you are all mean, I have a few overos and just wondered about the genetics. Conformation comes first obviously, I'm not just wanting a bald face, just curious to know what the chances are of breeding a bald face thats all. Thanks for all your critical responses.


----------



## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Irishminis said:


> Wow, you are all mean, I have a few overos and just wondered about the genetics. Conformation comes first obviously, I'm not just wanting a bald face, just curious to know what the chances are of breeding a bald face thats all. Thanks for all your critical responses.



No one was mean, they were direct and honest, the actual title question is "best way to get a bald face" the best answer is "buy one"


Breeding is a crapshoot at the best of times, and your odds of getting the whole package of what you want are small, especially when you throw color in the mix, as well as conformation and temperament. You asked a question, people answered, not liking the prevailing opinion does not make the opinioners mean!


----------



## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

Dreamcatcher gave you the best advice. Without the genetic testing you could very well end up with a dead foal because some paint genes when doubled up are lethal. That means spending money to test a mare you said in your first post you were going to purchase. Not that you already had. Buying one is the best option and the only way to get one. You could breed a bald face to a bald face and still not get a bald face. When dealing with patterns there are no guarantees. The question about what you would do with baby is fair if it doesn't turn out the way you want. Now if you said "I already own a chestnut with a bald face and great conformation that has proven herself but would love a palomino with a bald face but pally is more important than the bald face." Then the answer would be to test for the lethal genes and find a stud with great confo, no genes that would result in dead babies and make sure he is cremello. Then you will get a pally, probably get a good foal and may even get a bald face but the only guarantee is pally.


----------



## ApuetsoT (Aug 22, 2014)

Frame isn't even the gene that gives you bald faces. That's splash. Frame tends to put top heavy blazes on.


----------



## Irishminis (May 8, 2010)

Avna said:


> Gosh, we're a bunch of meanies, aren't we?





Avna said:


> 4horses said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, it would be easier to buy one. I just saw one on Craigslist
> ...


This comment was MEAN! I breed miniature show horses and not hellbent on bald faces, just asked as I have horses with splash and LWO. Thank you to those of you whose answers were educational, i really appreciate it.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Irishminis said:


> This comment was MEAN! I breed miniature show horses and not hellbent on bald faces, just asked as I have horses with splash and LWO. Thank you to those of you whose answers were educational, i really appreciate it.




If you aren't hellbent on bald faces that was not at all apparent in your original post, which was only about how to get one. You also said that "obviously" conformation is most important, but it is not at all obvious to many people who breed for color or markings, so there was no reason for any responders to assume that about you. 

If your horses are minis, that goes triple -- I can't remember ever seeing a mini -- in person that is -- with excellent conformation Many have absolutely abysmal conformation; this is clearly because if you don't ride a horse you can successfully ignore some massive faults. With minis there is nothing whatsoever "obvious" about conformation coming first for breeders. If you are one of those few, I congratulate you. You will be an unusual asset to the breed.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Nobody was being mean to you, just giving you their honest opinions. 

I love bald faces. Yes, they're a pain to put the sunscreen on every single day, especially if the horse decides they don't like the smell. I still think they're worth it. But anytime you're breeding for color, especially if you're dead set on it, you're open to heartache and better off to go buy. 

I bred my mare Honey Boo Boo, who is LWO negative, N/SW1, to Gunner On Ice who carries several SW genes and no LWO AND is heavily roaned, was praying I'd get #1 a beautifully conformed filly, #2 that lovely bald face her parents have and #3 the same heavy roaning her sire has. I got 2 out of 3. I got Twoey, a lovely filly, with a gorgeous big bald face and lovely blue eyes, and a little bit of roaning. Now that she's 2 years old, I am finding that I also got some pretty nice athleticism. The little mare can CUT and she does slide stops for fun. She is super catty, so I really got everything I could ask for. Roaning would just have been icing on a pretty nice cake. But, I could have gotten every single thing I DON'T like about both parents. 

Hubby and I were just having a similar discussion yesterday. I would love to find a big, beautiful, good conformation, mare who is EE AA TT SW1/SW1, so I could breed her to my stallion who carries absolutely no identifiable patterns, but is very nicely conformed, great temper (all of my horses have to have great personalities), and CrCr, so I'd get a lovely little buckskin. Filly or colt would make no difference. I've been shopping and the general price tag on a mare like I want is probably around $20,000. Not likely going to be buying her soon. I MAY go out and try to find a cute little buckskin, TT, SW1/SW1 filly (probably a weaner) to raise and then see what we get.


----------



## Irishminis (May 8, 2010)

*How to get a bald face*

Dream catcher, Ava or Avna was rude. And I don’t know how it is in the states but here in Ireland conformation is very important... so maybe you haven’t seen any minis with great conformation but we have them here, and I’m hot on it.


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

Dreamcatcher was not mean. She's blunt and honest and tells it like it is.


In the US, bald faces on minis is not desired. It makes the head look coarse, so you will find some nice ones for down around the pocket change level if it has a bald face.


----------



## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Very pretty! 

Here in the US there are minis of good quality too, but a whole lot of them are more like this:


----------



## SilverMaple (Jun 24, 2017)

^ Yeah. Lots of nice minis. A lot more crappy ones.


----------



## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Irishminis said:


> Dream catcher, Ava or Avna was rude. And I don’t know how it is in the states but here in Ireland conformation is very important... so maybe you haven’t seen any minis with great conformation but we have them here, and I’m hot on it.


I didn't see anything I thought was rude or mean, in anyone's posts. I'm very glad you are demanding of really good conformation. Here, especially with minis, conformation frequently gets sacrificed for some other trait that is thought to be desirable over form to function.


----------

