# connemara/tb crosses as jumpers/eventers?



## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Sore subject with me! lol. Yes, they can be lovely. Here is a video of one I owned a couple of years ago. I ended up basically giving him away. He was just too much horse for me, altho he WAS lovely. He had a buck in him I could not break, and I am not getting any younger. Anyway, through a friend, he went to a trainer, who sold him within the year for $15K, so I am told, and he is currently eventing, last I heard I believe it was prelim.

He was extremely athletic, and was 16hh, with great bone.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Such a nice horse! Good to hear he's going well, must be frustrating for you to know that it wasn't you that got him there. If I were to breed one I don't think I would break it myself because I have heard they can buck like the best of rodeo broncs and I'm just not a good enough rider to stay on if the horse is really determined to be rid of me.

I'm feeling like, just like any cross, it would work best with the right horses, temperament-wise as well as conformationally. The one I'm eyeing off and wishing I could afford is out of a TB mare whose sire is well-known for producing jumpers and eventers, and by one of Australia's best Connemara stallions.. a mix like that is going to have jumping ability out the wazoo. But I don't need two yearlings, one is more than enough! When my girl is going nicely and can be considered well-broke, then I'll get the next baby, whether I buy or breed.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I would love a conny/TB cross. I've never owned one, but with the cross, I think you could get a fabulous eventer. 

I do know several Connemara cobs - a Connemara that grew past the 14.2 height limit, so I certainly think the potential height is there. The other notable Connemara breed characteristic is a big, well sprung barrel and a lot of depth though the heartgirth, so a 14.3 Connemara cob can ride like a much larger horse. 

I do think you'd be better off buying a young horse already on the ground with this breeding. With a first generation cross of two disparate body types, there's just no guarantee what you'd get - it could look like full TB, full Connemara or some less than ideal mix of traits - like a Connemara body on TB legs and hooves - yikes!


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Years ago I watched a 15 yr old gal enter the jumper class in a 14.2hh Connemara. They flew around the arena, clearing all the big jumps with great time. They were the last entry in this huge indoor venue and they brought the house down.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

maura said:


> I would love a conny/TB cross. I've never owned one, but with the cross, I think you could get a fabulous eventer.
> 
> I do know several Connemara cobs - a Connemara that grew past the 14.2 height limit, so I certainly think the potential height is there. The other notable Connemara breed characteristic is a big, well sprung barrel and a lot of depth though the heartgirth, so a 14.3 Connemara cob can ride like a much larger horse.
> 
> I do think you'd be better off buying a young horse already on the ground with this breeding. With a first generation cross of two disparate body types, there's just no guarantee what you'd get - it could look like full TB, full Connemara or some less than ideal mix of traits - like a Connemara body on TB legs and hooves - yikes!


Where were you 2 yrs ago! He is in that area somewhere-he went to a trainer in that area........:?

I agree with buying one on the ground. Even crossing the best sire and dam you stand a chance of getting the worst traits of one or both.

I have a friend who swears by Connemaras for eventing....and she LOVED the horse I had. She just wash;t in the market. Story of my life.:-(

All good tho, since I don't think he would have made a good reiner, which is what I switched to after him.....:wink:


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

The one I want is first gen cross and WOW. Shame I don't have $4000 to buy her, or the time for another yearling. She is seriously nice.

I do believe that the better way of doing the cross would be connemara mare, tb stallion. Blood over bone seems to work better than the other way around. There is a very well-known clydesdale sporthorse breeder in my state who won't cross any other way and whose stock have proven themselves many times over in all English disciplines. But, getting my hands on a connemara mare would be more expensive and time consuming than just buying a tb/conn cross!

Still... cheaper than wb/tb or wb/anglo which are the other two crosses I'm thinking about for the future, and if I'm not financial enough to outlay $4k on the outright purchase of a young horse, then I can't afford to breed a mare.

The trouble with specifically trying to breed for a larger horse (16h+) from a pony breed is that I'd have to look in the upper height range of the breed and that would rule out a lot of the highest quality stallions. Or else breed to an enormous mare and hope for the best! Looking specifically for size would mean I would have to compromise on quality.

After thinking about it I think you're right, Maura. It probably would be better to buy what I want rather than try to breed for it. And that way I'm not restricting myself to a certain breed or cross, I can look for type and talent, AND get the colour I want. Not that I'm hugely picky when it comes to colour.

I do still want to breed my own at some stage but if I do that it will be to more similar body types. A solid TB to a warmblood or something like that.


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## Nevreme (Feb 23, 2012)

You can also make sure your new purchase has jumping talent if you buy something already on the ground. Which if you're eventing is probably a pretty big part of your criteria, haha.

Unless you're an absolute giant, size doesn't matter a whole lot with Conns, I've found. For example; the Connemara gelding at my lesson barn is only around 14-14.1 hands and can clear a 3 foot oxer with ease, once he is warmed up. And this is a horse that has such bad conformation that he needs a nice long gallop in the field to get the stiffness out so he can actually jump anything (and it's not age; he is only eight or nine). He also has the comfiest jump of any horse I've ever ridden.

If you get something with a good build and the heart for jumping, size is pretty much a non-issue


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## ponyboy (Jul 24, 2008)

The official height limit for Conns is of course 14.2 H but some are getting up to 15 H now. 

I can't think of a better cross for eventing than Connemara X TB.


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## sommsama09 (Oct 28, 2010)

Stroller was a Conny X TB  He was really amazing! Only pony to compete in show jumping in the Olympics  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroller_(horse)
Pic: http://www.bhs.org.uk/About_Us/Hall_of_Fame/Horses/Horses_Hall_of_Fame/~/media/BHSMain/About%20the%20BHS/BHS%20Hall%20Of%20Fame/Horses/Stroller%20Version2.ashx


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## charliegurl (Mar 24, 2012)

I evented a 15.2 hh full connemara stallion, he was big for the breed, had beautiful brindle colouring. He had attitude though like you wouldn't believe. Loved him to death, thing about Connemara is they have the pony, stubborn cheeky attitude with the build and strength of the horse so they can be a handful, find half-breeds though with the conny on the sire side take after the dam more in personality, as he was a stud for a long time. Very athletic, I find them to have strong personalities, so you need to be sure you can work with a horse like that. He loved the cross-country, but if he had attitude that day, he would try bolting, rearing, bucking and if that didn't work he would try to swipe me off on a tree. lol But then he could be so cuddly and affectionate, very Jekyll and Hyde lol. Definitely recommend the part-breed, I find his offspring were almost always in the 14.2hh to 15.1 hh category no matter breed or size of the dam.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

My favorite conny/TB cross ever was Seldom Seen owned by Peg Whitehurst. He started his career as an eventer. He was so good at dressage that is what he ended up doing...and very well.











Sport Pony Magazine - Seldom Seen, 1970-1996


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

I didn't realize that was Seldom Scene's breeding!

Well, there you go. 

Gotta get me one of those.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Cheeky pony personality is a good thing for me! I can be overbearingly dominant so a timid restrained type would be all wrong for me, I need a pushy horse.

At the moment for me, for my next young horse after Satin's grown up a bit more, I'm thinking either conn/tb or welsh cob/tb because of the pony personality! I love ponies, they are SO much fun, but they don't seem to have the height to take up enough of my leg and they more often than not seem to be too short in the back to take a saddle that fits me. So pony/TB for height while still keeping the pony personality would be pretty much ideal for me.

Otherwise, if I do decide to breed, I'm wondering if it would make more sense to cross my little girl (part-arab, I suspect part-welsh, and goodness knows what else) to a connemara or welsh cob. She is going to mature closer to the body type of one of the two than any TB, and if a horse is chunky, I can go as small as 14hh. I'm not ridiculously tall, I just have long legs so any horse I ride needs to take up a lot of leg.

Jumping ability IS important to me, but luckily jumping ability is far more heritable than movement or speed so if I choose a stallion from well-known jumping bloodlines I've got a pretty good chance of ending up with a horse that has talent. But you never REALLY know if a horse has the passion for it until you start jumping it, and the same will go for any horse I buy. Considering I really enjoy working with youngstock and training them from the beginning, I'd be wanting to buy a weanling (plus a yearling or 2yo is a lot more expensive), and I'd be very worried if a horse that young was being free-jumped!


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## Squishy (Aug 11, 2012)

Hi,
I know this is an older thread from a few months ago, but I've only just joined and wanted to share my experience with this mix 

I love it! If only I could stretch my girl a little taller, she'd be my perfect horse. She still is regardless, my angel.
She is fantastic - she's a shade under 14.2hh, and is the most amazing, forward, outgoing, confident, intelligent, kind and honest horse I've ever met. She challenges me every ride, and I have to literally ride every stride. I can take her anywhere, knowing full well she wont be an idiot. We've trained with the race horses (just for fun!), swam in the river and have dolphins swim past, I've taken her on ridden holidays, done hacking, xc, etc .. She loves to jump, and always jumps clear.

Besides her amazing temperament and trainability, she also has excellent feet (something I value in a horse), and I've never had her shod. They're strong (rock hard in summer, I have to soak them a week prior my trimmer coming out!), never had an issue over rocky terrain. She's easy to keep weight on, if anything a bit too easy lol
She gets a super thick wooly coat in winter, a good few inches of coat, not that it snows here LOL! Unfortunately everyone believes that she has cushings each winter, due to her coat. Auzzies just aren't used to "real" winter ponies LOL!

she really is "my" one and true horse, I am very blessed to have her in my life. 

I do agree with their prices though, it's not a cheap to buy one (I was very fortunate with her, I was given her as a gift!), but I do think they are well worth the money.
But there is one stallion I have been told that throws some of his foals with some serious attitude. I can't remember his name, but I'd recognize it if I saw it. 

I'd be happy investing in another one further down the track .. or even a wb x conny. I do have a lovely warmblood mare that I could put into foal .. and I'm seriously considering it!


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

I think I know who you are... lol did you just sell a lovely grey TB with a heart murmur?

I really want to put a Connemara over my new girl one day, she's so big it would hopefully be tall... either that, or a warmblood over my Magic pony.


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## Squishy (Aug 11, 2012)

..... yes I did? 

I had an account on here a couple of years ago, and I did a google search for a question which lead me back here (and evidentially, to this thread, which didn't answer my question, but had 'connemara' in it). My old email had closed, so I made a new account.

Ohh I think I know who you are too! You have the little buckskin filly, yes? And Magic is your new tb filly?

Small world! The "other" horse forum isn't the same any more  I remember this place being much more relaxed and friendly, hence why I signed up again.

Connemara's are fabulous horses. Although a Wb over your Magic would produce a fabulous eventer (I think anyways).


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Yep you ARE who I think you are  My mother looked at the TB you just sold.

Mum ended up with the little buckskin, I got Magic and still have Monty 

Yeah the other forum is just, ehhh. Y'know. HF is awesome 

And yeahh, I'm debating putting HG Salzburg over her maaayyyyyybe in 2013 for a 2014 foal, but only if boofhead isn't retired first... either Salzburg, or trying to find a tall Connie stallion. Or maybe a Welsh D.


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## Squishy (Aug 11, 2012)

Haha *waves* Awesome bumping into you here   

Ahh yep, your mum was cool! She was very lovely, was nice to meet her in person after seeing her post for ages on the 'other' site.

Aww yay, I'm glad your mum took on the buckskin  Least you get to watch her grow and learn. What an amazing experience!

How is Monty going? 

omg HG Salzburg ... I have my eye on him too LOL! I wouldn't mind putting him over Danni. Ideally I want old fashioned lines over her, to keep the solid-ness going. HG Salzburg gets my vote 
Tall Connies are hard to come by .. I think there are one or two floating around the 14.2hh mark? Maybe even 15hh? Think he's a cremelo? 

Welsh D *drooooools*. Oooh you're gonna have such a nice baby hehe


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Monty is hilarious  he's been out of work due to my total lack of motivation (erm, depression attack :/ oh well) so I'm bringing him back in, but he's changed shape again so neither of his saddles are fitting quite right... all I have to do is change the gullet plates in them, thank goodness. But, I rode him stirrupless the other day, and he was ok but a bit forward in the trot, settled nicely, and then I asked him to canter and my god did he BUCK. In the transition was the big one, and then he took off and bucked every couple of strides until I managed to stop him. Saddle off, bareback, he was ok but still a bit funny... and then yesterday in the jumping saddle (which I changed the gullet in just before I rode) he was perfect so I spent a long while in the saddle working on strengthening my lower leg.

I don't really know what bloodlines throw what, but I know names in Salzburg's pedigree so I figure it must be pretty good  I fail at bloodlines... better learn soon!

Don't want a cremello stallion because I don't want a palomino foal... nothing against them, I just hate trying to keep white tails from getting stained and there is NOTHING that will shift a stubborn yellow stain! I wouldn't mind a guaranteed buckskin, but the stallion would therefore have to be EE AA CrCr... and I can't be bothered adding ANOTHER criteria to my search 

Welsh D/TB is a nice cross but I would prefer to be able to do it the other way round... TB stallion, Welsh mare. Blood over bone. Conny/TB seems to work out nicely whether the conny is the stallion or the mare, but Magic and Salzburg are quite similar type-wise and he's strong where she's not... and she's strong where he isn't quite as good, but he doesn't have very many faults!


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## Squishy (Aug 11, 2012)

Hehe Monty sounds like a fun character to have in the paddock!
Yikes about the bucking - but good on you for figuring out it was the saddle 

I've just started riding again, but have been thinking of breeding before it's too late.. I want to do an embryo transfer with Hon (being 23 poses a LOT of risks which I'm not willing to take with her!). Obviously not a cheap hobby LOL Looking at options, but boy do I like Salzburg! I need to do a bit more research into his lines, I'm wanting old fashioned, big, strong, broad chested Wb's .. and he's still growing, so will see how he fills out.

I hear what you're saying about Palli's! Love them, but keeping them clean would be like owning a grey  Pass. Buckskin would be awesome! 

Connie x's are still awesome, and I'll forever love this mix. Hons sire was the Connemara (RIP), her dam was a Tb. They throw some pretty amazing horses - is height something that is a concern? I think they average around the 14.2hh-15hh for the mix, unless you're girl has some super long legs, and you find a taller Stallion. 

But sounds like you're leaning towards Salzburg - he's really handsome! will the foaly be your next eventer?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

haha yeah he's a really fun horse. The bucking wasn't really a problem, it's the taking off that bothers me (he does it a LOT, whenever he thinks he's in trouble, and I have been hurt because of it).

We have had both grey and pali... never again for either one! hahahahaha nothing against them, and I always dreamed of having a pali pony when I was little, but I'm a bit more practical now 

Magic's pretty tall, her bum is at least 16hh and she has a LOT of growing to do (wither is around the 15.2 mark atm but she should level out), she's in a 5'9 to 6' rug atm but she's quite slender and short-backed atm (my dressage saddle is too long for her, she's had it on once to start her getting used to the tack as a desensitisation exercise) so most of that is how tall she is. I love buckskins, LOVE LOVE LOVE them, but if there is any possibility of pali I'm not going there. Therefore any cream dilute stallion I put Magic to would have to be tested homozygous black.

Yeah I really am leaning towards Salzburg, I like bigger horses so his height is pretty much ideal (his stallion ad says he's 16.3) and I just love how he's built. But, not this year, if it happens at all it will be a 2013 breeding for a 2014 foal. Or, like you said you want to do for Hon, ET. In breeding terms I probably only have a couple of seasons available to me before Monty has to retire (he's 17, and will be 18 before I can put Magic in foal)... but ET is very expensive. And I will have to get Magic broken in professionally, because she has a tendency to go up when she's unsure and I don't have the experience, timing, or feel to get her past that. So it's a lot of money in the next few years, if I put her in foal at all.

Height isn't exactly an essential criteria, because Magic's so tall and also because I'm so short, but like I said I do like big horses. One of the reasons I got Magic is because her joints are enormous, easily twice the size of Monty's (and Monty has tons of bone, and big joints), so in theory she's going to be huge.

Edit; and IF I put her in foal, yes, the foal would be intended for my use as an eventer/sj... but if it was a filly I would probably sell it and use the money to buy a colt or gelding already on the ground. Perhaps it would be cheaper and more of a sure thing to just buy a Salzburg baby. I don't know. I don't want a stallion but colts can be gelded


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

The Connie/TB cross is an established cross for sports ponies in the UK.
They are generaly lovely ponies who can jump.

My 14hh connemara would do double clears round 3ft6 any day if he was in the mood to do so. He also competed to medium level dressage successfully.

Anouther very established cross is the connie/arab cross, gives a little more fire to the mix and a bit more stamina generaly.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

The problem is the pony thing  I like horses around the 16hh mark (which is why the idea of TB blood, big TB and a conny on the tall side for the breed). The connemara breed is AWESOME and as far as I'm concerned not even nearly common enough here in Aus... our pony population is predominantly Welsh with many many crosses (to Arabians usually), Shetland, Australian Pony or Riding Pony (and RP's are predominantly of Welsh, Arabian, Aussie and TB blood, more a type than a breed). I have seen ONE connemara and she sadly wasn't sound. There is one stud I know that breeds Conn/TB crosses but I don't think they have any resident Connemara mares.

If I was going to put a TB mare to a Connemara stallion, she would be 16.2+ and the stallion would be on the taller side for the breed... and if Magic is the mare, the stallion would not be palomino, and IF he was a cream dilute at all, he would have to be tested EE AA.

I really want a Conn or Conn cross, but like I said, I like big horses, and unfortunately tall Connemara sporthorses aren't very common here.


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

blue eyed pony said:


> and if Magic is the mare, the stallion would not be palomino, and IF he was a cream dilute at all, he would have to be tested EE AA.


I am feeling slow today... but why? Just because you don't prefer pally's?

Fair enough. Their manes and tails are murder.


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

exactly  I hate white tails. I won't go anywhere near a grey either. Magic is chestnut so she HAS TO contribute the recessive red allele "e", therefore an ee Cr stallion would have a 50/50 chance of siring a palomino foal with her. As would an Ee A- Cr buckskin, or an Ee aa Cr smokey black.

An EE stallion would have to give the dominant black "E" gene, therefore no red-based foal, therefore no chance of palomino. I'm not a fan of smoky black because you can barely tell that a smoky black is a cream dilute at all, so I want a guarantee of agouti if there's any chance of the foal being a cream dilute. An EE AA Cr stallion would guarantee bay or buckskin, and an EE AA CrCr (perlino) would guarantee a buckskin foal.

Easier to just go with non-dilutes I think! The stallion I'm considering most (warmblood, he'll give the best height and hopefully a nice type foal) is chestnut, so a foal by him out of my mare would have to be chestnut because both have to give the recessive "e" red allele. Colour is not a "priority" consideration except that I absolutely do not want a pali or grey foal, I'd be happy with pretty much any other colour. Erm, any other colour that my mare can throw, that is - not a fan of double cream dilutes, but Magic doesn't have cream, so can't throw it.


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

Ah yes, I follow you now.

I agree its probably best just to go with non-dilutes... probably easier to get a quality stallion anyway. 

I'm a masochist: I have a pally and a grey :?


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

yes, absolutely true, except in the Welsh and/or Riding Pony population, but both breeds are too small for my purposes anyway.... wellll,,, welsh cobs aren't, but they're too chunky and, well, cobby, for my purposes - with a lighter mare I don't want a heavier stallion.

Quality dilute warmbloods are a whole different kettle of fish, I have seen ONE that was any good at all and he was (regretfully) palomino, meaning I run a high risk of getting a foal of a colour I specifically don't want. And I don't think we have dilute Thoroughbreds here in Aus, unless someone has imported one. In which case it would be in the eastern states, and therefore too far away to live cover, meaning it would have to be an AI foal and therefore unregisterable.

Considering I would be breeding for an SJ/eventing foal, my choices are pretty much, TB, warmblood or a breed of large pony (or cob) known for jumping prowess.

But all of this is up in the sky at the moment, I don't have the funds OR facilities to breed. It's the foaling down and initial fence respect that I'm concerned about, I've had young horses from 6mo on my place before with no problems BUT the 6mo was already well-handled and properly weaned before I bought her... definitely don't have good enough fences for brand new foals, or for weaning time. I would have to move or else pay for (very pricey) foaling down/mare and foal board until such a time as my foal is weaned and respectful of fences.

Foaling down/mare & foal board is at least twice the price of board for an empty mare, more in many cases. And, considering I don't pay board for my guys at the moment, it's just another major added cost. Would rather save the breeding until I have good enough facilities of my own, or a larger disposable income such that the major added costs aren't of much consequence.

Said to the owner of the chestnut I'm considering, that although I am considering breeding, my mare is special, and if I decide the risk is too great, I'll just buy a weanling by the stallion and thus KNOW I'm getting a gelding (or colt, either way - I can geld a colt) and pick the foal that's the best type for my discipline, rather than waiting and hoping. I do want to breed, eventually, but it doesn't have to be RIGHT now and it doesn't have to be from this particular mare. I can always lease a broodmare for a breeding season, get the foal I want out of her, and send her back to her owners in foal - it's common practice here, and the perfect solution for the "backyard" person looking to breed only one foal. Yep - I am a "backyard" breeder. But, any foal I breed will be registerable, and I will register it... and a lot of thought is going into the concept. I am quite enamoured of this particular stallion for my girl, though there are others more mature (he just turned 3) and perhaps a little nicer... this one just fits with my mare.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I love cross breds, especially when they are bred with a purpose in mind. Who would have EVER thought that a Shetland/Arabian/Thoroughbred cross would produce such an amazing pony as Theodore O'Connor??


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## blue eyed pony (Jun 20, 2011)

Teddy O'Connor was a freak  no insult to him, he was a freak in the best way possible. Apparently his full brother's showing a lot of promise too, though? I think I remember reading that somewhere.

But, really, how many ponies get the chance to be trained and competed by a top-class rider? 99% of them are kids' mounts, and then some of them are small adults' mounts for folks who haven't got much confidence, and then there's the one in a million that get the chance to show what they're REALLY made of. Ponies are amazing critters, even when the pony blood is diluted by horse breeds, and I'd hazard a guess that at least 80% of them never see their true potential as performance mounts. They're too busy doing the other job they're amazing for - looking after kiddies and nervous riders! There was an 11.2hh Welsh for sale a couple of years ago that had jumped 4'+ in competition with his little rider, not in courses I don't think but in the six bar. I don't know if you guys have six bar or similar in the USA, but it's a lot like puissance/chase me charlie.

I don't want a big horse because they "jump higher" (haha I wish!!), I want a big horse because I want a big horse. It just so happens that my favourite "breed" for my discipline is actually a cross - warmblood/tb. It would be welsh/tb or connemara/tb if the typical height for either cross was 16hh+ though - pony personality plus horse size? Perfection!

edit; my favourite horse at the Olympian's stable I went to a while back was around 14hh, little grey pony branded with a brand that I know local to me! Smack went from my state to the other side of Australia and is a Grand Prix dressage pony of most likely mutt breeding, considering he wasn't cob type, but was very Welsh in the face, and too tall to be a Welsh B. Awesomest pony, wish I could've brought him home. Along with the dressage coach Abby.


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