# tb filly (foal)



## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

She is a bit over weight. This concerns me for reasons of epiphysitis and Osteochondrosis. It does make her _look_ better by covering things, but it can be unhealthy. Chastising over. 

She is a bit light in her joints. I would like to see more bone. I love her open throat latch. I like her shoulder to neck junction.. but foals are notoriously good looking at this age in that area. She will change HUGELY in body. 

Is she getting Periosteal Stripping?


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

She's on reduced exercise to help with the toe-in, definitely not being given anything other than mother's milk (which does seem to be fairly magical admittedly)


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

Thanks for the pointers, will keep an eye on her weight and look closely at her bone


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

It is very hard to judge a foal. The old saying, "Tops may come but bottoms never" refers to this but clearly states the legs are what they are. 

At two months carrying that much weight I would back off on the quality of Mum's food.. reducing milk production (perhaps! lactating mares and cattle tend to take it off their backs if they don't get fed well!). 

This would be an early wean for me. 

I say this having had a lovely Quarterhorse colt that looked oh so much like this foal (but he was a Red Dun). My vet came out and was aghast at the foal's over conditioned butt... So I weaned him and all seemed well enough. I sold him as a rising 3 year old and he was put into training (was to be a Hunter Jumper). Three months later he was lame. X-rays showed OCD and that was the end of him. Broke that girl's heart. She had paid me every week some money when she got paid at her horse farm job until he was paid for. 

I felt responsible (and very bad for this girl) and I replaced that colt with a lovely Thoroughbred filly.. well bred and athletic (sire was the Stakes Winner Silver Stark by Affirmed). Of course.. that was not the colt and eventually she sold her and the filly was trained for racing. She had an uneventful and unspectacular racing career. Her name was Rutile. 

My concern is from experience and not because I do not like your filly. I like your filly quite a lot.. and that open throat latch can really allow some air to move.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Not sure if she's what I'd call overweight - she's very 'deep set' in her build which isn't a bad thing as plenty of heart and lung room in there
If its just milk then if she is a little plump not a lot you can do about it - all that good Irish grass!!!
I like her btw - but at this age they can change so much in conformation over the next few years its hard to say


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

Elana said:


> I say this having had a lovely Quarterhorse colt that looked oh so much like this foal (but he was a Red Dun). My vet came out and was aghast at the foal's over conditioned butt... So I weaned him and all seemed well enough. I sold him as a rising 3 year old and he was put into training (was to be a Hunter Jumper). Three months later he was lame. X-rays showed OCD and that was the end of him. Broke that girl's heart. She had paid me every week some money when she got paid at her horse farm job until he was paid for.


oh dear, that's terrible 

You're actually onto something because the mare is a real specimen, incredible constitution, and unfortunately her first foal blew up with physitis - it hasn't happened since, but it's a point well-taken, and something we could probably be more about, 

Secondly, I wonder how much difference it makes, but we decided to rest her this year (from stud) so she's not carrying a foetus, so maybe she's producing more milk


Anyway, I was delighted this morning when I let the foal walk up to me and she seems to have corrected almost perfectly (I just missed the photo! ) ... but she's just had bits of minor corrective trimming and of course box rest to try straighten her up, and it seems to have worked,

She'll probably be weaned very soon,

Here she is again, she's a big girl









and for reference, the sire,


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

She doesn't look overweight in that pic - just really deep in the girth which is good.


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

jaydee said:


> She doesn't look overweight in that pic - just really deep in the girth which is good.


Funnily enough - she's by the same sire as Annie Power, and Willie Mullins always comments that she's unusually deep through the girth for a mare when explaining why she's such an unbelievable performer.

Looking again this girl could use a bit more substance to her hocks in particular I think, so I'll keep a close on that, and her bone generally, (though Shirocco isn't over-blessed with bone, and his hocks are about as light as you'd want, imo).

But I'm quite excited about her, to me she has a hint of the sire about her, especially where Elana mentioned (at the throatlatch, the neck / chest) - certainly when I look at her I can the Shirocco straight away and I think in breeding when you see the sire coming through it's a really good sign.

I like the sire a lot, he's 16.2 and a real proper horse. He got his fair share of winners on the Flat (including a few Group 1 winners) but he never got many precocious / very fast ones, so he just wasn't commerical enough and was sold for National Hunt duties.

Here's another photo of him and the filly,


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Even at her young age she's surprisingly like him - hopefully you'll have a good one there. 
If she doesn't race she should have a good career in eventing or make a nice show horse


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

jaydee said:


> Even at her young age she's surprisingly like him - hopefully you'll have a good one there.
> If she doesn't race she should have a good career in eventing or make a nice show horse


I really have no idea about 'showing' horses 

So, you know the events in Ireland and England, what kind of event would you have in mind ?


She'd probably be a very, very good eventer - loads of scope and all the family jump for fun, great temperament, probably quite fast. But I imagine she'd be much more valuable as a broodmare than to sell for someone to event her - but I could be wrong ? Like, if she was top-class what would be a rough idea of her value ? 


I wouldn't mind 'showing' her as a hobby if she doesn't race, and isn't carrying a foal - but she'll either sell as racemare / broodmare or (wish, wish!) I'll keep her.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm British LTG - only been in the US for 8 years.
If she was a top class eventer she'd be worth a lot of money - more than she'd be worth as a broodmare unless she had some good race winnings behind her
Show horses don't make as much unless they're winning at top level - what she'd show as would depend on how tall and sturdy she gets so anywhere between a Hack, a Riding Horse and a Lightweight Hunter


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## Elana (Jan 28, 2011)

Actually I was thinking more Jumper than Hunter Jaydee if she were a riding show horse! Hunters are.. well.. hunters. A good jumper is worth lots of cash. 

I love the build of the sire. If she is like him and she is not winning at the track she might want a try at Jumper. HE would have the scope. If she is like him and likes to jump, SHE would be similar. 

Good jumpers are not common. Grand Prix International less so. Top level horses are always worth money.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

There are no showing classes for jumpers in the UK and Ireland like the ones here in the US (if that's what you mean Elana) - the closest is Working Hunter and a TB would have to be very well built with a lot of bone (leg) to hold its own against the Irish Draft crosses in those classes.
Show jumping - maybe, but the WB's dominate that sport these days, its unusual to see a TB at the top levels nowadays


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

I actually asked about this - her half-brother won the Irish Grand National - which you'd think would make him an excellent jumper - but the feedback I got was that he'd be rubbish as a Show-Jumper, way too hot-tempered and not the right build at all. So ... if he can't then what hope any other of these TBs

And yes, Jaydee, I know you're British which is why I asked your opinion - since you may know what kind of events we have here and in England!

But the filly is really very well related, so she doesn't even need to race to be a commercially valuable broodmare.

That said, I have seen some nicely bred TB colts standing as Sport horse stallions ... 

We have the Royal Dublin Horse Show this week which makes it very topical - if she had a brother who had the size and scope most of that family have, there might actually be a case for standing him to breeders of Sport Horses - obviously to make it as a TB stallion you need to be a Group 1 winning horse, but to people who want to add size and scope to their Sport Horse mare, maybe it's possible.


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## LTG (Aug 24, 2013)

Elana said:


> Actually I was thinking more Jumper than Hunter Jaydee if she were a riding show horse! Hunters are.. well.. hunters. A good jumper is worth lots of cash.
> 
> I love the build of the sire. If she is like him and she is not winning at the track she might want a try at Jumper. HE would have the scope. If she is like him and likes to jump, SHE would be similar.
> 
> Good jumpers are not common. Grand Prix International less so. Top level horses are always worth money.



Yeah - I've seen some of the top sales prices and they would make you take interest !! 

But, as far I've been told by people who are involved in both, the TBs wouldn't be suitable - they'd need to be outcrossed with something first.


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## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

LTG said:


> I actually asked about this - her half-brother won the Irish Grand National - which you'd think would make him an excellent jumper - but the feedback I got was that he'd be rubbish as a Show-Jumper, way too hot-tempered and not the right build at all. So ... if he can't then what hope any other of these TBs
> 
> And yes, Jaydee, I know you're British which is why I asked your opinion - since you may know what kind of events we have here and in England!
> 
> ...


Temperament doesn't always pass on so I wouldn't place too much negativity on that - it's the scope that makes these horses able to win races like the Grand Nationals that still makes them good eventing prospects.
If she's got value as a brood mare that would be more profit than selling her as a prospective competition horse though - they want them to be proven to make the big money in that unless bred from top competition horses


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