# 4 y/o Kill Pen Rescue Conformation



## AliceCT (8 mo ago)

So one of the other boarders at my barn picked up this guy about 2 years ago from a kill pen. Because of some health issues she has, she has been unable to work with him for a year and he has had very little riding (she never rode him, but there are some pictures from the person who sent him to auction of him being ridden on trails even though he was too young!). He has a great personality and I have agreed to work with him and buy him. I'm mostly going to be using him on trails. I've ridden him several times now and he's pretty fearless and very willing to learn. But I'm struggling to find a saddle that fits him well. Do you think more muscle will help his saddle fit? Anyways, I was wondering what your thoughts were his conformation and if there is anything I should watch out for.

His tail is going everywhere in these pics because of flies.


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

While the horse may have been in an auction, it was not in a kill pen. The reason? Canner plants will not buy greys. 
If the horse was bought by a canner buyer, it was because he knew he could resell it for more than he paid for it.


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## AliceCT (8 mo ago)

Zimalia22 said:


> While the horse may have been in an auction, it was not in a kill pen. The reason? Canner plants will not buy greys.
> If the horse was bought by a canner buyer, it was because he knew he could resell it for more than he paid for it.


Yeah, I've heard of things like that and I know that they can be kind of a scam. I don't know the whole story, just what I've been told.


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

At this point on his life it is irrelevant where he came from for the purpose of a conformation critique. He needs to be square on level ground. No shadows. Both sides and front/back. Not fair to judge him based on these. He has a kind eye and looks like a sweetie. If he rides well for you and he's learning then enjoy. As for saddle fit - what kind of a saddle are you looking at. What do you have and do you have pics of the saddle on him - no pad. Different angles so we see fit.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

@Zimalia22 . . why will canners not buy gray horses?

the horse is nice looking. might be part Appaloosa. Does not look like a difficult fit for a saddle. Beyond being a bit hammer-headed, he's a nicely built horse!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

I would think it has to do with incidence of cancer as that is a no go for selling.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

@tinyliny I believe it’s cancer.


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## wvfarrier (Sep 13, 2021)

I agree he appears to have a kind eye but I do not like his neck or front shoulder angle. His stifles are a little low too. If he was in shape you may get different opinions 🤷‍♂️


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

It is the high occurrences of cancers in greys.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

I agree with @QtrBel. We could tell more seeing a saddle on him, without shadowing if possible, no pad.

When he gets more muscle it will change things. Maybe a little. Maybe more. But you ought to be able to find something suitable for now.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Knave said:


> @tinyliny I believe it’s cancer.



how does that affect turning the horse into meat? Cancer is not transmissable through consumption of meat, as far as I know. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just wanting to comprehend this.


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t understand it myself @tinyliny, but my father told me you can’t take a grey horse into Canada because of cancer. I wouldn’t think it would be of that consequence myself, but I have been told that. I’m sure @Zimalia22 knows why it is of import.


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## ksbowman (Oct 30, 2018)

My sale barns won't take a cow with cancer and that is an edible meat.


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## AliceCT (8 mo ago)

I'll definitely try to get some better pics of him, and pics of the saddle without the pad. The one I have is a pretty cheap western saddle and I know it is too big up front and has pressure points on his back. It tilts forward and is loose in the back. It is supposedly "semi-QH bars" but who knows what that actually means to this brand. I'm getting an Australian saddle on Wednesday. I think I'll take pictures of him with that one and see if y'all think it works. Someday I may want to get a western saddle that is more expensive and actually fits well and I need to know what works for him before I do that. My mare is built differently so her saddle doesn't fit him.

I agree on the shoulder angle. I'm hoping the other things change with time and a little more exercise. My mare is a registered paint and built completely differently, so I'm still trying to wrap my head around how he is built and what are normal differences vs. abnormal ones. I plan on eventually making him my "husband safe horse" because he loves people, doesn't spook easily, and is slow.



Knave said:


> I don’t understand it myself @tinyliny, but my father told me you can’t take a grey horse into Canada because of cancer. I wouldn’t think it would be of that consequence myself, but I have been told that. I’m sure @Zimalia22 knows why it is of import.


Does this only apply to Canada? This auction was in Oklahoma, so I'm pretty sure he would have been sent to Mexico and I have a feeling that they are a little more lax on the horses they accept. It doesn't really matter. My original thought was that he was posted to FB so someone would pick him up and they could use that money to buy less desirable horses. I'm suspicious like that. But I know the lady who rescued him had good intentions.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

What I see is a lack of muscle, but also fat at the wither where he is sunken and wither prominent.
If you would consider using a built-up saddle pad it might help with finding a nice saddle fit for him easier.
He's nice looking, a bit under muscled but that can be changed with work.

He could also use a bit of weight, yes fat cause his shoulder points are also seen yet. With a bit more weight, not obese, but 50 - 75 pounds on him could make a huge difference in getting a nice fit of a saddle on him.
Nice horse...if he meets your needs and you are willing to handle a project....
As a trail horse if he has a brain, enjoys his job and is safe on his feet...
You know the animal, handle already and if price is right...._you just acquired a new horse.
Yup, for some things I am a enabler! _🙂
🐴....


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## Knave (Dec 16, 2015)

I don’t know. @Zimalia22 would know. I thought you could sell a cancer eye cow @ksbowman. I remember when I was young we had cancer eye cows, but I don’t see them anymore. They culled anything with the appearance of it developing as I got a little older, like jr high. I remember them saying it was hereditary. Eventually they cleaned them out of the herd, but we also don’t have the Herefords around anymore. To be honest I miss them, but not the cancer eye.


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## AliceCT (8 mo ago)

horselovinguy said:


> What I see is a lack of muscle, but also fat at the wither where he is sunken and wither prominent.
> If you would consider using a built-up saddle pad it might help with finding a nice saddle fit for him easier.
> He's nice looking, a bit under muscled but that can be changed with work.
> 
> ...


I'll start feeding him some muscle building feed. I'm sure he'll love that. Project horses are my favorite, so he is perfect, lol!


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## QtrBel (May 31, 2012)

There are untreatable viruses that cause cancer and those may or may not be transmitable to humans or other species. I'd say may affect texture and flavor.


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## Finalcanter (Apr 15, 2013)

wvfarrier said:


> I agree he appears to have a kind eye but I do not like his neck or front shoulder angle. His stifles are a little low too. If he was in shape you may get different opinions 🤷‍♂️


I'm thinking this way as well, imo.

I think more conformation images would be useful, although I'm not sure that will change much with the way his neck and head are set up. Not sure if that will get in the way of riding him, but he definitely looks a bit front heavy. It could also be the uneven stance or ground.
He looks a little jug-headish (I mean coarse) to me, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose!


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## AliceCT (8 mo ago)

Here are a couple of saddles on here. Hopefully it isn't too shadowy. We live in the land of the endless sun right now.
This is the cheap wintec synthetic saddle.




























And this is the aussie saddle. I really want an aussie saddle and miss my old one, but I'm not keen on keeping this one. The back looks odd to me. Suggestions for a nice but light saddle?



































Also, I know this pic isn't perfect, but he is square in this pic and the ground is level. I think his shoulder looks a little less steep, but he's still on the straight side.
















I need someone to hold him if I'm going to get better conformation pictures.


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## horselovinguy (Oct 1, 2013)

Those aussie saddle pictures to me are scary.






Look at this, just look at it and tell me you see even and balanced...
I sure don't, and the lack of symmetry and quality workmanship speaks for the entire saddle and how it was constructed.
The pommel pictures are not much better...
Please, your gut instinct is right...do not use this saddle. Run away and let it collect dust somewhere else but not in your possession.

Lightweight saddles are often the synthetic ones or combination leather & synthetic.
Abetta Is a brand I can ride in either western or endurance style and be reasonably comfortable and the fit actually is decent on several horses this saddle has been used on.
I don't make a good partnership with Wintec in English or western, never tried their dressage honestly,
I've sat in some other saddles but couldn't tell you what brands they were.

If you want leather, then look at barrel style saddles. Their design is efficient at saving weight.
Not sure what your $$$ is so a bit of searching around may need to take place.
Your horse has a long sloping wither bone, think it is called "sweptback", which may need some considerations, but.... the correct pad placed/used under the saddle will also give you the clearance you need in many more brands and tree used.
🐴... _jmo..._


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## Zimalia22 (Jun 15, 2021)

Knave said:


> I don’t know. @Zimalia22 would know. I thought you could sell a cancer eye cow @ksbowman. I remember when I was young we had cancer eye cows, but I don’t see them anymore. They culled anything with the appearance of it developing as I got a little older, like jr high. I remember them saying it was hereditary. Eventually they cleaned them out of the herd, but we also don’t have the Herefords around anymore. To be honest I miss them, but not the cancer eye.


The plants will not buy grey horses because of the cancers. What you see on the surface, well think if it like an iceberg, the majority of it is underneath, you don't see it. 
While the horse may have been at an auction, it was not at a canner's pen.


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## AliceCT (8 mo ago)

horselovinguy said:


> Those aussie saddle pictures to me are scary.
> View attachment 1129036
> Look at this, just look at it and tell me you see even and balanced...
> I sure don't, and the lack of symmetry and quality workmanship speaks for the entire saddle and how it was constructed.
> ...


Thanks for confirming. The aussie saddle is a lot worse quality than I expected for the price I paid. 10 years ago I got an aussie saddle for half the price and way better quality, even though it was synthetic. The place I got it from does do returns so I am definitely returning it. I'll look into abetta saddles. Would a swayback pad help his saddle fit?


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## tsed18 (12 mo ago)

tinyliny said:


> how does that affect turning the horse into meat? Cancer is not transmissable through consumption of meat, as far as I know. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just wanting to comprehend this.


I used to work in cattle processing plant. If there is any sign of cancer, or even bruising, the animal will be condemned and can't be used in any processing. It has more to do with the tools and contamination. Animals can be condemned and put in the trash for any reason. The commercial plants can't pick and choose pieces to be salvagable. Any small deformity or issue means the whole animal is tossed. Even minor bruising from time on the cattle truck means the animal is no good, even for dog food. Taking the chance is too high of a risk of potential loss. It messes with their purchasing numbers and down time if one is condemned. It has the potential to bring an entire operation to a screaching halt for up to an hour while everything is cleaned and re-started and the financial expense is too high. It's a safety and liability thing. It's not great, but it is part of the industry. If they can minimize the risk in any way, they will. Also, greys and other flashy colors always sell at good sales for more than what the meat buyer paid. Certain parts of the US where sunburn is less of an issue makes them highly marketable at the price of fuel to the next sale.


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## tsed18 (12 mo ago)

AliceCT said:


> Here are a couple of saddles on here. Hopefully it isn't too shadowy. We live in the land of the endless sun right now.
> This is the cheap wintec synthetic saddle.
> 
> Your best bet is to get a good pad, work him in the saddle and look for the dry spots. Those will tell you a lot of what you need to know about the fit. They both appear to not fit well. I don't think short term riding in them will cause long term damage though. Have you considered an Arabian saddle? Some Arabian endurance saddles fit odd horse shapes really nicely.
> ...


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## AliceCT (8 mo ago)

I just had to share a couple of updated, non-official conformation pics. I feel like his topline has improved a lot in the short time I've been working him and I can't wait until he is actually conditioned.


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## gottatrot (Jan 9, 2011)

He is looking great!


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