# New horse - Lots of questions



## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

So as some of you may know, there is a Belgian I love dearly who will finally be coming home either this Monday or in 2 weeks - Praying for this Monday or it'll be the longest two weeks of my life!!

He'll be arriving in not-so-great condition. 
First his diet:
His current diet is very (VERY) limited hay and a 'bucket' of trotter. However much that is, is clearly not enough as he's lost a substantial amount of weight.
My plan is to supply him with well soaked hay cubes, probably alfalfa/timothy mix. Probably 2 quarts, 4 times a day - does that sound right?
As well as hay in a slow-net, I don't want him to have too much too fast and get himself sick - would that be too much right away?
My mare is on a ration balancer (Nutrena Empower grass balancer) should I put him on that? He needs to gain weight should I put him on that plus Ricebran, Oil or alfalfa? Or should I put him on something different all together? 
I don't believe he's had any access to anything like salt or any other electrolyte, so I'll add electrolytes to his cubes rather than free choice salt for a while, I don't want him to overdo it right away.
He currently works an excessive amount, on hard surfaces - so I plan on putting him on MSM for his joints.
I'm positive he has ulcers - will the alfalfa in the cubes fix that or should I put him on another supplement to help with that?
His hooves are not-so-nice right now, I plan on having my farrier out immediately to see him, but will probably put him on brewer's yeast as well. 

Is there anything else? I'll be introducing each of these things slowly, starting with the cubes.

His feet will be tended to by my wonderful farrier right away.
I'll also have a vet out ASAP to give him a thorough look-over and do his teeth (Which I'm sure are in need). His owners tell me he's been wormed just a week ago - but I'll still have a fecal done.
For a horse who works long hours on hard surfaces with limited hay, underweight and dehydrated - is there anything else I need to be thinking about?
What about his exercise level? He spends about 4 days a week working very hard, the rest in a stall. At my home I plan on turning him out daily and in at night - but there will be a dramatic decrease in exercise. How big a deal is that? I feel like until he's healthy I don't want to work him. Once he is he'll be used for casual trails. Is there anything I need to be concerned with about that?

If there's anything else you can think of that I should know please let me know


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## Spotted (Sep 19, 2012)

how much under weight is he, do you have pictures.

He should be eating 1.5 to 2 % of his body weight per day. so if he were 1000 pounds, then he should eat 15 to 20 pounds of food per day. Obviously he is alot larger, so he would need much more than that.
Majority of his diet if not all should be grass/hay you need to weigh the feed or give him free choice. I like slow feed nets as well, so they don't pig out.
Horses should be turned out 24/7 unless there is a reason why not.
you will need some kind of Ulcer meds if he has Ulcers. Horses need salt/minerals
and free choice water. Normally horses will take whatever salt they need and then slow down. 
If he is severly under weight I recommend consulting with a vet.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Slowfeeder net full at all times of good grass hay. Alfalfa pellets, soaked with a teaspoon of salt and a vit/ min supplement. For starters, I'd put him on a good senior feed. Easier digestible, better for gain. Then, once he's up to weight, switch him to ration balancer. Since you mentioned Nutrena, I'd recommend the life design senior for him. 
I strongly recommend omega horseshine or the dumor brand equivalent, ultra shine. Gives him much needed omegas, yeast, probiotics, gets him shiny, helps skin and hooves, is just good in general. Some alfalfa hay would be nice, helps soothing his stomach.
If you give salt and a vit/min, electrolytes are only necessary if he's sweating much.
My 0.02$


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

Pictures would help but I'm going to guess that if he works as a carriage horse he is probably older. My first thought would be teeth and EPMS. Is he just underweight or also lacking muscle tone especially in his hind end? What you choose to add to his diet is only going to help as it's extra calories but I would skew my choices to a simple modified EPSM diet. Alfalfa for better protein to build lean muscle mass, oil for a concentrated calorie source and to provide fuel for the muscles if he is indeed suffering with the condition, a RB or vitamin/mineral blend (no need for an additional electrolyte as this is what a mineral blend is), salt and 40# or more grass hay. Changing him over to a high fat diet will take about one month to see results. Start with 1C a day and work up to 4 C. You must give the muscles time to adapt to using fat as a energy source. Many drafts are kept on a simple hay and whole oats diet so when you start messing with their food and adding a lot of extra stuff, they get suspicious and won't touch the food. 

When the vet comes out make sure he's aware of proper sedation on drafts. Most are highly sensitive to the stuff. 

In my limited experience with retired work drafts, they don't really relish down time. They are happiest working. He probably isn't broke to ride and initially it will be out of his comfort zone. Find a chore for him to do, harrowing the arena or dragging pastures are perfect. Keep him in light work while you are putting weight back on him to promote muscle gain.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Spotted said:


> how much under weight is he, do you have pictures.
> 
> He should be eating 1.5 to 2 % of his body weight per day. so if he were 1000 pounds, then he should eat 15 to 20 pounds of food per day. Obviously he is alot larger, so he would need much more than that.
> Majority of his diet if not all should be grass/hay you need to weigh the feed or give him free choice. I like slow feed nets as well, so they don't pig out.
> ...


Yup he will have free choice hay 24/7 in slow nets, I don't want him to eat too fast right away - I don't think he has the gut flora to be able to process hay yet, considering he's had such limited amount.
Of course he will have access to water All the time No matter what! He has 2 buckets already in the stall he'll be in.
I won't have him turned out 24/7 my neighborhood isn't ideal for that. Personally I like my horses tucked in at night where I know they'll be safe. He stall is very large and substantial for a draft horse, my other draft has no issues. 
I will definitely have a vet out ASAP too  thank you!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Slowfeeder net full at all times of good grass hay. Alfalfa pellets, soaked with a teaspoon of salt and a vit/ min supplement. For starters, I'd put him on a good senior feed. Easier digestible, better for gain. Then, once he's up to weight, switch him to ration balancer. Since you mentioned Nutrena, I'd recommend the life design senior for him.
> I strongly recommend omega horseshine or the dumor brand equivalent, ultra shine. Gives him much needed omegas, yeast, probiotics, gets him shiny, helps skin and hooves, is just good in general. Some alfalfa hay would be nice, helps soothing his stomach.
> If you give salt and a vit/min, electrolytes are only necessary if he's sweating much.
> My 0.02$


I like the alfalfa pellet idea, what about just alfalfa hay cubes (soaked of course)?
I like the hay nets too. I've never used a senior food, I like to avoid soy and _all _of them have it - as it's higher protein % and less expensive. 
I use Smart Omega for my mare because of her issue with sweet itch, I'll be switching her to Smart Bug Off, which also has omegas added in the spring. Would that be good for him too or should he have something more?
Ok is Sea Salt good or Iodized salt? Do you think alfalfa is enough for his ulcers or would he need something more?


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Left Hand Percherons said:


> Pictures would help but I'm going to guess that if he works as a carriage horse he is probably older. My first thought would be teeth and EPMS. Is he just underweight or also lacking muscle tone especially in his hind end? What you choose to add to his diet is only going to help as it's extra calories but I would skew my choices to a simple modified EPSM diet. Alfalfa for better protein to build lean muscle mass, oil for a concentrated calorie source and to provide fuel for the muscles if he is indeed suffering with the condition, a RB or vitamin/mineral blend (no need for an additional electrolyte as this is what a mineral blend is), salt and 40# or more grass hay. Changing him over to a high fat diet will take about one month to see results. Start with 1C a day and work up to 4 C. You must give the muscles time to adapt to using fat as a energy source. Many drafts are kept on a simple hay and whole oats diet so when you start messing with their food and adding a lot of extra stuff, they get suspicious and won't touch the food.
> 
> When the vet comes out make sure he's aware of proper sedation on drafts. Most are highly sensitive to the stuff.
> 
> In my limited experience with retired work drafts, they don't really relish down time. They are happiest working. He probably isn't broke to ride and initially it will be out of his comfort zone. Find a chore for him to do, harrowing the arena or dragging pastures are perfect. Keep him in light work while you are putting weight back on him to promote muscle gain.



Thanks - very good guesses. I don't want to get into his history or post pictures until he's in my barn - long story. But there _will_ be pics hopefully this Monday :S if not the first week of March.
He is old, about 20, and you're exactly right, he's lost almost complete muscle tone in his hind end. He's lost a lot of weight and muscle on his topline and hind end. His front end still has some weight and some muscle, but less than 2 years ago. 
How would I know if it's EPSM - A vet? What would I do if he did have it? Would it just be a diet change?

Good I'll definitely have him on alfalfa then! Should I do alfalfa/timothy cubes + Alfalfa pellets, or just alfalfa cubes? Of course soaked.
Do you mean Ration Balancer or Rice Bran? I was thinking Ration Balancer to make sure he gets all he needs.
He's the type to eat anything, but I'll be careful to transition him slowly.
Thank you about the information for the vet - I'll make sure! 

I broke him to ride 2 years ago when I worked with him, he's a doll, I used to take him out for trails occasionally, he seemed to enjoy it enough. I don't have any harness things, or anything for him to do (no arena or paddocks, just big pastures). I don't want to ride him while he's getting better but perhaps I better take him out for walks for a while, or line-drive him around the trails. 


Thank you all VERY much! I've got a lot to think about and make sure of  My baby is coming home!! I've missed him so much, I don't think I've gone a single day without thinking of him since I left.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Get alfalfa pellets....they soak faster.....much faster.
As for soy....it has the best proteins, only better protein is in milk. IMO, soy-free it's just another hype..unless it's a serious allergy.....soy is good, of course in moderation, like everything.

As for any Smartpak stuff...never used them, and most likely won't. I like do-it-yourself.....;-)
So I swear by my omega horseshine .


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Desert - Lol ok I'll use pellets! 
As for Smartpak - I'm so not the type to buy into packages and gimmicks, but in looking at their ingredients and comparisons it's about equivalent, or better with the Smart version. So I go for that.  
Thank you so much


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

To confirm the EPSM, you really must do a muscle biopsy. There are some signs however that might save you that expense. First off, send him through a gate and have him pivot on the forehand and face you. Was his movement fluid and effortless or was it like the power steering went out, he's leading with his head and neck but the back end isn't fallowing, he picks up a hind and it is slow to the ground or pauses in midair, does he slap the hind foot on the ground when he strides? Has he lost his stamina or desire to work? Is he reluctant to back? Muscle loss in the hind quarters is a big yes. Diet change is the only thing out there. The muscles can not use glycogen as an energy source so the body cannibalizes lean body tissues for energy. By providing 20-25% of the daily calories in the form of fat, the muscles adapt to using it as it's energy source.

Ration Balancer


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Hey don't knock smartpaks! That's how I make sure Sky gets what he needs while I am all the way in New Zealand! He has never been healthier!


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm so excited your getting him back! I love to hear stories like this...can't wait to hear the full story. I would keep him in some form of physical condition. If he's too thin, then I would definitely strive for some mental stimulation. That helps horses recover by leaps and bounds!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Hey don't knock smartpaks! That's how I make sure Sky gets what he needs while I am all the way in New Zealand! He has never been healthier!


Not knocking smartpaks.....I just prefer doing my own homework, pet peeve of mine......Smartpaks is too easy;-)


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Not knocking smartpaks.....I just prefer doing my own homework, pet peeve of mine......Smartpaks is too easy;-)


Desert - I totally agree - I like to _know_ what my horses are on. But that's why I picked smartpaks in comparing the ingredients of the supplements I was looking at to other brands I found it more pure (less junk added) and more economical. But I agree everyone _should_ do their own homework - everyone should know what's in the food they're feeding their horses.

Thank you everyone for your support ^^ I got the call tonight, he'll be coming in tomorrow, barring any unforseen circumstances. Billions of pictures will shortly follow 
Do you all think taking him out for walks or ground drives would be good? How long should I work him? Maybe I should do some CT with him too - keep him mentally stimulated ^^ 

I'm so _very_ excited - I just finished getting his stall ready and his bedding all fluffed


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I would do lots of leading him around and stuff.. so walks would be good and making sure to pick his hooves out and groom him really nicely. I would not ground drive him until he's in better condition.

Excited for you


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Agree with sky. Establish a routine. Horses like that, especially work horses. You can add on anytime


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## katybug31102 (Feb 18, 2013)

*Is he trained?*

Will he be coming to you trained? If so, you will need to gain his trust! It took me 1 month to gain my horses trust! and escpiecially with a Beliugum it will take a long time to gain his trust! DO NOT RIDE HIM THE FIRST DAY HE COMES, HE WILL HAVE TO SETTLE IN BEFORE YOU RIDE HIM. ITS YOUR NEW HORSE, HE IS COMING FROM A TOTALLY DIFFRENT PLACE I HOPE YOU WILL GIVE HIM TIME TO GET USED TO EVREYTHING! MY SISTERS HORSE MALIBU EVEN AFTER WE HAD HIM FOR TWO YEARS WHEN WE TOOK HIM TO THE BARN MY SISTER RODE HIM ON THE 2 DAY HE WAS THERE AND HE BUCKED HER OFF AND REARED! AND HE IS USSEALLY A SWEETY PIE!

I ENJOYED ANSEWERING YOUR QUISTENS,
KATY


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

katybug31102 said:


> Will he be coming to you trained? If so, you will need to gain his trust! It took me 1 month to gain my horses trust! and escpiecially with a Beliugum it will take a long time to gain his trust! DO NOT RIDE HIM THE FIRST DAY HE COMES, HE WILL HAVE TO SETTLE IN BEFORE YOU RIDE HIM. ITS YOUR NEW HORSE, HE IS COMING FROM A TOTALLY DIFFRENT PLACE I HOPE YOU WILL GIVE HIM TIME TO GET USED TO EVREYTHING! MY SISTERS HORSE MALIBU EVEN AFTER WE HAD HIM FOR TWO YEARS WHEN WE TOOK HIM TO THE BARN MY SISTER RODE HIM ON THE 2 DAY HE WAS THERE AND HE BUCKED HER OFF AND REARED! AND HE IS USSEALLY A SWEETY PIE!
> 
> I ENJOYED ANSEWERING YOUR QUISTENS,
> KATY


Did you read any of the comments from the OP?


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## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

PunksTank said:


> Desert - Lol ok I'll use pellets!
> As for Smartpak - I'm so not the type to buy into packages and gimmicks, but in looking at their ingredients and comparisons it's about equivalent, or better with the Smart version. So I go for that.
> Thank you so much


Just wanted to put in my .02-- SmartPak is pretty legitimate! It has helped my boy tremendously.  As someone mentioned, they have excellent comparison charts for supplements and you don't have to buy their "smart" supplements, either!

Good luck with your new boy! Has anyone mentioned FeedXL? If you have $20 lying around, it is a great way to figure out your horse's diet. Perfect for us lazy smartpak-using folk!


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

existentialpony said:


> Perfect for us lazy smartpak-using folk!


You mean _efficient_ smartpak-using folk... right...? :evil:

:wink: :lol:



:twisted:


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

So excited for you Punk!!! Can't wait for the stories and pics!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

katybug31102 said:


> Will he be coming to you trained? If so, you will need to gain his trust! It took me 1 month to gain my horses trust! and escpiecially with a Beliugum it will take a long time to gain his trust! DO NOT RIDE HIM THE FIRST DAY HE COMES, HE WILL HAVE TO SETTLE IN BEFORE YOU RIDE HIM. ITS YOUR NEW HORSE, HE IS COMING FROM A TOTALLY DIFFRENT PLACE I HOPE YOU WILL GIVE HIM TIME TO GET USED TO EVREYTHING! MY SISTERS HORSE MALIBU EVEN AFTER WE HAD HIM FOR TWO YEARS WHEN WE TOOK HIM TO THE BARN MY SISTER RODE HIM ON THE 2 DAY HE WAS THERE AND HE BUCKED HER OFF AND REARED! AND HE IS USSEALLY A SWEETY PIE!
> 
> I ENJOYED ANSEWERING YOUR QUISTENS,
> KATY


Thanks for your response, but there's no need to worry. I won't be riding him until he's healthy. I don't feel Belgians take any longer to earn trust than other horses. That being said I'm not concerned about that, this horse has been my best friend for several years now, he's just finally able to come home where I can care for him up to my standards.
He will have to work on respect though xD I've let him get away with way too much - out of "I miss you so much, ok you can eat my sweatshirt" ^^'

Thanks for your concern but I think we're alright on that end of things


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Lol don't get me wrong - I love smartpak, especially the fact that they make it easy for horse owners to know what their horse needs - labeling it for the specific purpose. But it would also be nice if every owner did some research and knew what they were giving their horse xD


Thank you all SO much for your support and help ^^ I will probably start with short walks around my property leading up to long walks in areas where we can stop and graze (when he's doing a bit better and able to handle grass). I don't think I'll want to ground drive him honestly, I want him to know he's 'done' - they've shipped him out to farms for winters before to get him healthy again then taken him back. I want him to know it's all over and he can just be a horse again. I'll probably do some CT work, just cause it's fun and it'll keep him thinking.
I'm so excited I think I'm gonna explode!! I gotta run to the bank and get the money for him, then the grain store to get him food  YAY!! I'll post back later today with all my 'baby' pictures


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Ready everyone?! :O

Here he is! I couldn't get all of him in one picture 









You can see all the harness rubs on his withers and how the rubs went further and further down his withers as he got skinnier. The breeching and breast collar dents are still there, looks like those just rubbed the fur off, not the skin much.










Tried to get a topline pic but he's freaking tall!



















Got my farrier coming tomorrow to fix this:









He's not as terrible as I keep thinking, but he's definitely hollowed out through his hind end a great deal, his front end is rough but not terrible.










His other side hind end, I had to get a blankey on him he was so cold!! I don't usually blanket in medium weather like this but he was really cold I don't think he has enough insulation...









And to brighten all this up!! Here's his beautiful face!! I think this was the first time in 8 years he's had his halter off, his nose is dented and behind his ears are rubbed raw and he's _very_ itchy, itchy enough to let me rub his ears (he's usually very ear shy).











For reference, this was him about a year and a half ago:











Well there's my pics - So far I've been giving him hay, a little at a time, 2 quarts of very soaked hay cubes (alfalfa and timothy mix) - I'll transition him to just alfalfa pellets, I just was afraid that would be too rich right away. He's drank a full bucket of water (5 gallons) and the hay cube water, so maybe 1 gallon - and had two very sloppy poops. I'm concerned about the sloppiness, but it may just be from all the excitement - he was concerned about the blanket and that was when he passed the first. The second was when he discovered my mare in the stall next to him. She's been squawking and squealing at him all day - which is SO not her, even or TB stallion at the rescue wasn't worth a second look! Not that I wanted them to look twice xD So I think he's settling in well... 
I've also groomed him thoroughly and cleaned his sheath - He isn't dropping when he pees, which is odd he usually drops often, especially when he's eating, so it's odd he won't even for peeing. He's shedding a little - I can't wait until he sheds it all out and I can see what's under all that. He feels much skinnier than he looks, that coat is definitely hiding a lot. But hopefully by the time he sheds he'll be healthy 

So any more suggestions or help would be hugely appreciated, I'm running out to get some desitin, his scratches (in his feathers) are pretty terrible - I'm hoping a good diet and a dry stall will fix it, in the mean time desitin will ease the burden. Anything else anyone suggest?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Poor muffin.... I'm glad you're going to be taking care of him!


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Oh, the poor baby! I'm glad you have him and can slowly bring him around. What is wrong with people? I will leave the diet advice to the experts. Have some nice bonding time with him.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

Take one more picture of his hindend getting both sides in the same picture. You are looking for asymetry which he does look like he has. The other red flag is the way he is standing with his hinds underneath him. Could be he's just tired from the events of the day but it could also be his way of balancing himself. Even in the last picture when he was in good shape, he is much lighter muscled than he should be. (looks more marish) The dried sweat marks also indicate whomever harnessed him had no clue how to properly adjust the harness. 

Looks plenty skinny to me.


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## JenniMay (Aug 17, 2011)

:-(

Breaks my heart! He looks pretty rough...

Some good nutrition & muscle building & TLC is what he needs...

I am so glad you're going to take care of him...!!! Lucky boy!!!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone <3 It means a lot to have this support - I'll get that picture for you in a few minutes, yes he's always been lighter in his hind end. And yes, they hadn't a clue about proper harnessing, which is why his top line is almost entirely white from rubs. They just put it on, let it fall to the lowest spot and tighten all the way -.-' Which at this point in his weight loss has left the surcingle around his belly practically! I can't actually reach up high enough to feel and see if there are any scabs or soars - I'll have to get a step stool  But whatever's there will heal better now than before.
So assuming he's got EPSM - what diet would I be looking at? 


Right now he's still getting hay cubes and small amounts of hay - all I have now is 'compressed hay' I'm not really sure what it is? Someone told me it was fantastic because it has many different types of hay mixed in, but it's new to me which makes me wary, it's also very dry which concerns me.

He's drank down 3 full buckets on top of the 2 gallons of water I've mixed into his hay cubes So that makes about 18 gallons in just a few hours, he hasn't peed yet. I'm thinking he was pretty seriously dehydrated, I should have pinched his skin when I got him, didn't think of it. Now that I am I'm going to go do it all, heart rate, gums, skin pinch and all just to see where he's at and let my vet know. They'll be coming later this week hopefully. 
Farrier's coming tomorrow...

So my plan is to make myself a calender for when I'll be adding which item to his diet (obviously a flexible one) - but just so I don't let myself look at his sad state and throw everything at him. I so badly want to feed him everything he wants! But I just can't...
So my plans were, hay cubes with small amounts of hay at a time for the first few days, then maybe switch to alfalfa pellets soaked? I want to add MSM, Brewer's Yeast, Ration Balancer and either Oil, Alfalfa or Rice Bran to help with the calories... Does anyone who knows more than me have any guidance on that? On how long to wait before adding which things? Which are the most important right off? If he has EPSM would any of that even matter? I also found out I don't think he's as old as they say he is - maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but his teeth aren't long at all. I'll try to get a pic but he's not very good about it xD

Thank you all SO much for your help and continued support! I don't know where I'd be without HorseForum ^^


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## BBBCrone (Jan 28, 2012)

Awww Punk, what a cutie he is! I have no clue how to help you. Luckily I've never faced this situation before. I just wanted to say he's beautiful and so glad he's back with you so you can get him on the right track.


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## Reno Bay (Jul 8, 2012)

He's definitely in good hands now.


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing pics once he's shed out ar benefited from your tlc! So glad you have him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shropshirerosie (Jan 24, 2012)

He is beautiful, and he's going to be a lot more beautiful. I think you're right to make a calendar to stop yourself from rushing with the diet changes. I'd be minded to take it much slower than for a healthy horse and stick to just the hay for now. Then after the vet has been I would add one more thing - whichever of the alfalfa or rice bran will be easier to digest. If you were in the UK I'd be suggesting soaked sugar beet, but that doesn't seem so popular here?


Then once he's settled on that I would wait a fortnight before putting in the ration balancer, and then I would stop adding unless the vet identifies that he has a deficiency.

Slow slow steady weight gain is what you want in his case. Let that metabolism adjust to no work and more food in a nice calm manner.

Good luck and enjoy


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I've posted that on another starved horse thread already, here is what UC Davis recommends for severely starved horses:
Day 1-3
One pound of high quality alfalfa every six hours
Days 4-10
Slowly increase the amount of alfalfa and decrease the number of feedings so that by day 6 you're feeding just over 4 lbs every 8 hours 13 lbs per day in 3 feedings)
day 10 and for several months
feed as much alfalfa as the horse will eat and decrease feeding to twice a day. Provide access to salt. Do NOT feed grain, treats such as apples or carrots, or other supplements until the horse is well along in its recovery. Each feeding of grain, treats or other supplements complicates the return of normal metabolic function.

Other types of hay such as grass hay may be added following the first 2 weeks of referring but should be added slowly over time.
Alfalfa hay contains adequate amounts of salt for a sedentary horseshine so use caution offering a salt block within the first 4-6 weeks

They tried several variations of this diet at Davis, but came to the conclusion the above mentioned was the most effective one and provided everything needed.


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## JenniMay (Aug 17, 2011)

Read some of the draft dietary recommendations from Dr. Beth Valentine. She is awesome. She will also respond to emails (very quickly) if you ask her for advice.

Also, "google" Rural Heritage Vet Clinic---lots of good advice! Also, Beth Valentine's Recommended EPSM Diets

Drafts benefit from fat in their diet EPSM or not...


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

JenniMay said:


> Read some of the draft dietary recommendations from Dr. Beth Valentine. She is awesome. She will also respond to emails (very quickly) if you ask her for advice.
> 
> Also, "google" Rural Heritage Vet Clinic---lots of good advice! Also, Beth Valentine's Recommended EPSM Diets
> 
> Drafts benefit from fat in their diet EPSM or not...


Thanks for reminding me about her. I just emailed her myself!


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone so much!!

As for his diet, as terribly skinny as he is, he wasn't starved, he had been given a minute 2-3 flakes of hay at night (of questionable quality) as well as 1 quart of trotter twice a day. So he has had grain and hay, just not enough and not very good quality. That being said I don't want to change things too fast either. Right now he's on compressed hay as well as alfalfa/timothy cubes - but I think tomorrow I'm going to exchange my unopened bags of hay cubes for straight alfalfa cubes (or pellets if they'll let me). I'll definitely start adding more alfalfa to his diet - thanks Desert (as always!! ) but I don't want to eliminate regular hay all together as it seems to keep him pacified and happy. He's also drinking a substantial amount of water which makes me happy  He's pooped a good deal today, each poop getting more like a real poop (not as sloppy as before). I offered him a salt lick (as I don't have loose salt, getting that tomorrow) he ravenously licked at it for a few minutes before I took it away, I don't want him to overdo that either, so I'll let him have it for just a couple minutes every so often - and only so long as he's drinking as much water as he is. 


As for his hind end pic, I took it, he was standing at a slight angle, just a little, so the pic isn't perfect. But from looking in person I can say his right side has a bit more weight/muscle than his left. My poor boy with his docked tail ;-;









And just so you can all see him all happy and snuggly 










I also just finished combing through his legs with a fine tooth comb and rubbing desitin on all his scratches - his hind heel bulbs were SO sensitive he wouldn't even let me touch them! I just globbed a pile of desitin in each and after that he let me rub it in, it must have really cooled the area, his heel bulbs were REALLY hot. My farrier will look at him tomorrow and let me know what that's all about or if there's something better I should do. It's too cold to wash them, I was told Ivory soap was great for scratches. But I'm hoping by the time it's warm enough for a bath his legs will be all healed up


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## Army wife (Apr 29, 2012)

He is so stinking cute! I am so glad you got him home! Those wear marks made me so sad  I guess you should have him biopsied for PSSM/EPSM before you start worrying TOO much. I know there are two types, not sure if the diet is different for each type? I know alfalfa is easy on stomach ulcers, which he may have or be prone to since he was on an insufficient diet. But this is an article I found, seems like there is a lot of controversy on PSSM diet?? I would go with the UC Davis diet, they're more legit by far. But just for curiosity sake, here is a womans blog who has a horse with Type 1 PSSM.

Feeding


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yeah, one of the alfalfa myths.....alfalfa is super low in NSC, so perfectly fine for a horse with metabolic issues EXCEPT HYPP and no problem unless the horse is overweight to begin with and it could be just too high calorie then.


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## Left Hand Percherons (Feb 1, 2011)

He doesn't look that bad from behind. I would of expected a more sunken in on the sides of his croup. Try the other "tests" and see how he responds to them. 

I have never seen saddle sores on a driving horse like that. You will sometimes see them up on the neck from the collar but never on the back. As one area was sore they would just move the saddle back and start again. I can't fathom how that damage occurred with a wagon as there should be almost zero pressure on the saddle from it. It would of been broken but still.

I'm surprised the public allowed a horse in his condition to work on their roads (if that's what he did). Here, he would of been on the news 100# ago.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

I emailed Dr. Valentine yesterday and she already got back to me this morning. She suggested, for me, to send mane samples to the University of Minnesota to test for EPSM/PSSM for my percheron. I didn't realize you could do that, I thought testing was only through muscle biopsy. So, this is very exciting for me and affordable. I think you have to pull ten hairs with roots. Just info for you in case you need it:

Recent advances in PSSM genetic testing - CVM - UMEC, University of Minnesota


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

Just want to follow along with his progress. No experience rehabbing, but really happy for you that you're reunited! What a great story.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Left Hand Percherons said:


> He doesn't look that bad from behind. I would of expected a more sunken in on the sides of his croup. Try the other "tests" and see how he responds to them.
> 
> I have never seen saddle sores on a driving horse like that. You will sometimes see them up on the neck from the collar but never on the back. As one area was sore they would just move the saddle back and start again. I can't fathom how that damage occurred with a wagon as there should be almost zero pressure on the saddle from it. It would of been broken but still.
> 
> I'm surprised the public allowed a horse in his condition to work on their roads (if that's what he did). Here, he would of been on the news 100# ago.


I think what happened with the sores on his spine was the surcingle part (which has a fuzzy pad, which is often wet or filthy) was first where it belonged, just behind his withers, but caused rubs from being wet or dirty, but as he lost weight it fell further and further down his spine until it was where you could see the dried sweat marks, half way down his back. Causing rubs along his top line the entire way  The rubs from his breeching and breast collar seem to be superficial, just rubbed fur, not much damaged skin. But he has a few more spots on his face that are rubbed raw that I think if the hair grows back it will be white, from wearing a halter for so long. 
I don't know why there wasn't more public awareness about his situation - to be honest he _is_ the only one out there that looks like this. So perhaps people didn't notice or care, in the harness much of his appearance looks less terrible too. You could barely see him under all the equipment. I know for a fact the local SPCA had been called on a regular basis on the carriage companies on the streets, but as so many people call so often over things that don't matter the SPCA usually comes and does a quick look over the ones at the stand and carries on. Sometimes they'll make a particular horse go home that day or say one needs something before they can work again, but things aren't checked or followed up. To be honest I think all the public out cry about carriage horses has done a great disservice to the horses that actually need the help - like crying wolf. Several years ago while I was working there the SPCA came and told me they got a call my horse had a broken leg they needed to check. The caller said the horse 'was holding up a hind leg like it hurt', he was resting, like any normal horse would. We got other complaints about the fact that they're abused by having nails in their feet with shoes in. While I'm not a huge fan of shoes, they are far from abuse, especially for a horse working on pavement.
If people had taken pictures and gathered up evidence to prove _actual_ neglect or abuse were happening before just whining about horses not belonging in the city maybe something could have been done. I keep waiting for the day the business is outlawed. But I did love the job, I got to bring the wonderful world of horses to a group of people who had never had the chance to experience it before. So many times I was told "I've never actually pat a horse before!" That made the job worth it for a while. But our hours being from 6pm-11pm on weekdays and 11am-10pm on weekends were taxing on all of us, horses and people. That and issues with the carriage companies fighting with each other. The owners of the companies all truly being in the business for money, not for the love of horses. All this added up to me just not being able to handle it anymore. I left with my offer to buy my horse on the table and every month I stopped by with a pocket full of peppermints to feed him and I reminded them I wanted and was willing to pay for him. Well finally they got an offer for several other carriage horses being sold to them, so they were willing to sell me my boy in exchange for money to replace him. 


Sorry, that's my carriage company rant. 

But I tried some other things, he had a hard time moving his hind end away, seemed to not be able to balance himself right away. Just my putting pressure on his hip - this was not an issue 2 year ago, but now he seems to hesitate, pull his legs under himself and then shift over and rebalance - it takes him some time. I called my vet, they'll be calling me back today or tomorrow with an appointment date, but also to talk about these sorts of things. 
Thank you all so much for your help - I will definitely look into that hair sample EPSM thing!! Thank you all 


As for today - he must have slept well! He has bedding all in his hair, he's also much cleaner, I groomed him as much as I could yesterday but a lot was caked and hurt him for me to brush, but I think the bedding helped clean a lot of that up  He seems to be feeling well - when I took his blanket off this morning he didn't look quite as 'deflated' as he did on arrival, I think the water has helped him a lot - he's drank about 5 buckets (5 gallons each) as well as had several buckets of soaked hay cubes. But he has finally peed too which is good. So it looks like everything's going well  I'm going to turn him out today and if that goes well I'm going to start some short walks around my driveway to get his body moving. I'll post pics when the farrier is done with him too, that should be some great before/afters o.o


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Oh - Desert, I've been trying to give him alfalfa pellets and he just won't eat them - even this morning, when I gave the others their breakfast and he was nickering for food, I gave him a cup of soaked pellets and he took one sniff and went back to asking for something better. I think maybe I should stick with the alfalfa/timothy cubes, because he is eating those. Would hay stretcher be beneficial? I'm also giving him compressed hay which he seems to like, but only small amounts at a time with ample breaks between it. But I don't know much about compressed hay, it looks 'different' to me, which always makes me funny - but someone told me it was really great?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I have alfalfa/timothy pellets(Standlee), you can try to add a tiny bit of alfalfa pellets to his cubes, upping it little by little, easing him into it. Sometimes they need to be convinced what's good for them;-)


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Gotta check out the "compressed hay"...no clue what that could be......


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## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

I thought compressed hay was just a regular bale of hay that's been mechanically compressed? One boarder at my barn has compressed bales for her horse- looks like regular orchard grass but the bales are smaller than normal bales, even though they weigh the same (AFAIK compressed bales can be made of any type of hay)


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

The little plastic-wrapped Standlee bales TSC sells? For pharmacy prices?
these:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/standlee-hay-premium-alfalfa-grass-tidy-wrap-bale-50-lb-1019386


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> I have alfalfa/timothy pellets(Standlee), you can try to add a tiny bit of alfalfa pellets to his cubes, upping it little by little, easing him into it. Sometimes they need to be convinced what's good for them;-)


That's a good idea I'll do that, then at least he's getting it. No, I don't think it's that stuff, it's not plastic wrapped and came from my supplier it was $12.50 a bale, but it's about 70lbs.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Alright ready everyone for hoof pics? My farrier rocks!! She was real patient with him, he was good for her, but had a hard time holding his fronts up for very long and his back feet were very sore to the touch. He has some seriously disgusting thrush built up in all his feet, to the point where his heel bulbs are very hot and very painful. So she pulled all his shoes, trimmed all his feet then showed me how to apply special medicine that's above and beyond regular thrush medicine. She mentioned his heels are 'run under' and says it'll take some time to fully correct that, but did what she could today. So here are the befores and afters!


Right front before:
















Right front after:

















Left front before:
















Left front after:








sorry missed the side view 


Left hind before:

















Left hind after:

















Right hind before:

















Right hind after:


















I'll have to stick the medicine in his soft heel bulbs and squash cotton into them poor baby! She also mentioned he has string halt in his right hind, which she 'prescribed' a little exercise for. The white goop on his legs in all the pictures is desitin for his scratches.

All in all things went pretty well. He's still eating his cubes and hay, I called the vet and hope to hear back soon. He went out for a short while today and seemed to enjoy that quite a bit! I'll post those pics in a few!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Oh my.......poor guy.....:-(
Looking better, tho.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Here he is! Very much enjoying the snow! I took his blankey off while he played outside cause it was pretty warm and I figured he'd want to roll in the snow - and boy did he!!






































He was so happy!! He only got to play a bit more than an hour today before the farrier came though.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Just wanted to update everyone, Nugget is doing pretty well. He's been on hay cubes and hay all week and today the vet came. I've treated his scratches with Desitin, which seemed to just make him itchier, maybe it was locking in the moisture? 
This morning my vet came, she floated all my horses' teeth including his. She put his age at about 18, which is better than what I thought (25). His teeth are pretty good. She said a betadine scrub would do his legs good and said I could start him on Ration Balancer right away. She also thinks Canola oil is my best option for weight gain, so I've started him on just a tiny amount in each hay cube serving which will gradually build to 2 cups a day. I'll also be adding MSM for his joints. 
So I continued with his hoof medicine and scrubbed his legs with betadine and brew dry them to make sure they were extremely dry, then I used a baby's anti-itch powder, in hopes that will help keep him from bothering it a bit. He's definitely feeling better, much more spunk! I'm still taking him for daily walks too 

Nugget getting his teeth done  and my other 2 horses nice and sleepy from their tooth ordeal 










Getting his legs blown-dry after a good scrubbing!











Going for a nice walk around the driveway


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

Awwwww....look at that big guy!! He looks happy!


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

I am loving this! Keep up the good work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks guys ^^ I'm so happy to have him!!!


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## mysolarflare (Jan 21, 2013)

He is looking better already


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Thanks everyone. 

I had a couple more questions. What are some good exercises I could do to build up his hind end? I have no hills or poles, but have been walking him around my driveway a great deal. He gets very tired and starts dragging behind after about 15 minutes. I typically make him go a few minutes more then turn him back out. He doesn't like to stay out long, even with food, he waits at the gate and nickers whenever I go by. 
Also I washed him with betadine and covered him in anti-itch baby powder last night, but in the morning his legs looked just as bad, he actually must have found something good to scratch on, he cut the outside of his leg really good, definitely rubbed it on something (not a slice or anything). A couple of other spots he scratched and cut open. Is there anything else I can do for him? He's so miserable.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

PunksTank said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> I had a couple more questions. What are some good exercises I could do to build up his hind end? I have no hills or poles, but have been walking him around my driveway a great deal. He gets very tired and starts dragging behind after about 15 minutes. I typically make him go a few minutes more then turn him back out. He doesn't like to stay out long, even with food, he waits at the gate and nickers whenever I go by.
> Also I washed him with betadine and covered him in anti-itch baby powder last night, but in the morning his legs looked just as bad, he actually must have found something good to scratch on, he cut the outside of his leg really good, definitely rubbed it on something (not a slice or anything). A couple of other spots he scratched and cut open. Is there anything else I can do for him? He's so miserable.


Don't worry about building hind end muscle right now.. he needs weight.. and a lot of it. Once he gets a nice hay belly, then you can start thinking of working him for muscle. 

Sounds like the betadine was too dry. What about putting diaper rash cream after the betadine wash? I did that for my horse's pasterns and he didn't feel itchy afterwards and it cleared up.

Maybe consider putting him slowly on an Omega supplement which will help with dry skin. Ask your vet first of course, and do research.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

I guess I probably am rushing things, I'm not so much looking for 'muscle' more just trying to help his hind end feel better, he has string halt and has trouble holding up his hind legs - but tonight after a long walk today he did much better. 

Thanks! My mare is on an omega supplement I could put him on a little too. I have diaper rash cream I used it the day before betadine, but it didn't make any difference, but maybe now after it'll be better. I'll go put some on! Thanks


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Maybe consider some stretching exercises? Sky had the opposite problem.. couldn't relax his hind legs. They'd always cock up under his belly like a mare. After doing some stretching exercises he was feeling much better.

You could even do it in the sense of clicker training him to do it.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

That's what he does, he tucks his leg all the way up into his belly and has a hard time letting it down, my farrier said it was stringhalt? 
I had my friend (a vet tech) give him a massage today too and she showed me some leg stretches - I'll definitely be doing them! Thanks Sky


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

One last thing.. we had a chiropractor work on Sky and that really helped too. I'd wait until he was a bit more settled to do it to him but another idea.

So happy to help Nugget out!


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## HighonEquine (May 11, 2012)

I don't know if you are necessarily looking for advice on the scratches, but I have had Clotrimazole (Athlete's Foot Cream) work really well! 

And I just want to say how happy I am for you and your horse! He looks terribly sweet :grin:


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Check this out:

http://ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsmsigns.htm


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Haven't read this hole thread-but what a cute guy! My draft cross gets scratches in his feathers sometimes, and the vet gave us some Silvadene cream for it, that worked like a charm. You might ask for some. I think it is the same stuff we humans use for burn victims.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Thank you all so much for your guidance! Let me give you a quick update.

Desert, thank you for all the help on his diet  
We've found while he may have a slight case of EPSM he may also have Cushing's. So what he's eating now:
4 hay cube buckets soaked a day (2 quarts of cubes each) 50/50 alfalfa/timothy. 
He's getting Bess's Choice for his Cushing's - it's an herbal blend with all sorts of good things for Cushing's horses - if you're interested in it you can read here. I've seen it work miracles for Cushing's horses and have full faith in it.
As well as a tablespoon of sea salt twice a day. He's never had a salt lick or salt available to him before so I didn't want to make him sick so I built him up on it - I didn't want to give him free choice and have him get himself sick.
He's also getting Nutrena Empower grass balancer, MSM and Brewer's yeast.
Then hay continually throughout the day and of course as much water as he wants.
He's drinking excessively and peeing just as much - I've gone through _so much bedding!_ The vet attributes this to his previous dehydration (from lack of salt) and potential Cushing's.

As for his legs, I'm so at a loss! I think it's scratches - fungal infection, but my vet says it could be mites. We forgot about it while she was here and didn't think to test him. I've tried washing his legs in Betadine and thoroughly drying them, then applying anti-itch baby powder. The powder I think was a mistake, there was menthol in it which was probably too tingly as the next day he had some fresh scratches. So I rinsed his legs and dried them again, no medicine, just warm water and thorough drying. Then my vet said to try and treat him for mites. So two days ago I covered his legs in Diatomaceous Earth - food grade powder. It's been two days and he's still itchy. My next plan is tomorrow to rinse his legs _well_ with warm water and dry them thoroughly and then apply M-T-G, another thing my vet suggested if it's actually the fungus not the mites. If all else fails I'll have to get frontline medicine for mites. x.x If anyone has any guidance for that please let me know! I've been throwing my money in so many different directions and I think I need to stop and just let something work, but there are no 'steps' to follow so I'm lost.

As for his feet. His thrush is getting slowly better. I'm cleaning and applying Go-dry and packing his hooves with cotton every day. He's very sensitive. 
I can't afford a chiropractor at this point without going into 'emergency' funds. But my friend is a certified equine massage therapist and has given him a couple massages and shown me some great stretches I do for him when I do his feet. 

He's been getting turned out as much as possible and if he can't get turned out (weather and such) I take him for quiet walks. 
If anyone has any help or any guidance please let me know!

And for your viewing pleasure ^^ my beautiful, most handsomest, wonderfulest boy!!!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

You're probably going to laugh now.....if it is confirmed it's not any fungus or mites.....I'd clip his feathers( I know, ouch....not literally but shame on me for suggesting it;-)), and put sauerkraut on it. Bandage over. It will clean the open sores, get rid of any pus and scabs and you can the medicate the open sores just like any open sore with a wound ointment.
It worked for my Hafi mix. He had his hind pasterns RAW, pus, swollen, hot. After the sauerkraut poultice it healed within a week.


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## enh817 (Jun 1, 2012)

PunksTank said:


>


Absolutely magnificent!!! Lookit that rump <3


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> You're probably going to laugh now.....if it is confirmed it's not any fungus or mites.....I'd clip his feathers( I know, ouch....not literally but shame on me for suggesting it;-)), and put sauerkraut on it. Bandage over. It will clean the open sores, get rid of any pus and scabs and you can the medicate the open sores just like any open sore with a wound ointment.
> It worked for my Hafi mix. He had his hind pasterns RAW, pus, swollen, hot. After the sauerkraut poultice it healed within a week.


Oh no x.x I've been desperately trying to avoid clipping his poor baby feathers xD He doesn't tolerate clippers at all especially around his legs - in time I could work on that but I so don't want to.  
I've cut his feathers with scissors before really short back when I was working with him, but it made little difference. I have not heard of sauerkraut - what is it for? What does it help with?


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

I said it in my post...it will clean up the sores, kill whatever organism is in the sores and a "normal" wound ointment can go to work. There is a more in depth explanation on here somewhere.....can't remember the thread, but somebody had a scientific explanation. I just know it cleaned up my boy's scratches really well, and fast
cutting the feathers is kinda necessary....you'll have to get the med's to the skin


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

He needs a friend. Look for Mickey de Belgian on FB. He is a trip, and will be a good friend. ;-) Your guy looks SO much better already. Love seeing the progress.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

Punks, I am so glad you have him back with you! He looks like a love bug!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

So it's been a few weeks, I thought I'd update  He's doing exceptionally well, putting the weight on, got his feet done a second time. He's beginning to look like a horse again!
He's been put in my indoor/outdoor stall and been out almost all day every day. His peeing is getting better and he's shedding out nicely 
I hopped on last weekend for a little walk around the paddock - and YUP! He's feeling like himself again, stubborn!! His personality is all coming back, he just can't sit still ever. He always needs to be messing with something, he likes to lick my pony's face (they're in stalls facing each other and he can just reach to lick him) - the pony is a little disturbed by it, but stands and tolerates it xD - if the pony isn't there to bother he's knocking down everything around his stall that he can reach.  Just as happy and annoying as always!! The company I worked for called and said they're happy he's gone because all their carriages aren't being broken any more  He used to bit holes in the covers of the carriages in front of him and eat the fake flowers decorating them xD

And some pictures, cause he's just to gorgeous!!


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## spirit88 (Jan 12, 2011)

He's looking so much better amazing what good feed and care can do.

Great job.


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## Oldhorselady (Feb 7, 2012)

He looks fantastic! Gorgeous man.


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Good job!
I would get him a couple of toys. This cylindrical thing to roll around and treats or alfalfa pellets fall out. Or hang up a milk jug with some pebbles in it( he'll most likely will drive pony nuts lol). He seems to be highly intelligent and needs something to do. Trick training would be another possibility.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm so happy he's doing well!!!  Great job!


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## hemms (Apr 18, 2012)

Yup! Toys! One of those big paddock balls would be good, too!

Love that first pic!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

deserthorsewoman said:


> Good job!
> I would get him a couple of toys. This cylindrical thing to roll around and treats or alfalfa pellets fall out. Or hang up a milk jug with some pebbles in it( he'll most likely will drive pony nuts lol). He seems to be highly intelligent and needs something to do. Trick training would be another possibility.


Lol he's definitely too smart for his own good!! I figure if the pony gets too annoyed he'll just go to the other side of the stall 

I have thought of toys, I gave him sugar-free likits that entertain him a bit. Truthfully I want to avoid noisy toys - I live upstairs of the barn and they're loud enough without bottles full of rocks! xD 
Trick Training will definitely be happening! And as soon as I have the cash for a monster-sized headstall I'll be taking him out for trail rides  I'm riding him in his halter now and he's good, but strong and if grass were involved I'd never get his head up xD 
I have a mullen mouth snaffle (not-jointed) his size, I hope he goes alright in it - he used to drive in a broken liverpool with the reins on the bottom x.x but he was also working in the city. I think he'll be fine I just need a headstall now 

Us riding ^^


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

PunksTank said:


> LI think he'll be fine I just need a headstall now
> 
> Us riding ^^


Omg you're so tiny  

Drafttack.com has awesome tack.


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## PunksTank (Jul 8, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Omg you're so tiny
> 
> Drafttack.com has awesome tack.


Lol I'm not that tiny - he's just that big! lol I'm about 5 feet  I'm not sure how tall he is, I tried taping him, but despite being a city horse that flapping piece of tape waspretty darn terrifying!!

Wow drafttack has awesome stuff! But when I've got the money I'm going to buy one of the braided bridles from JillyBean  I love her designs!


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Weeeell....5 feet is not exactly huge.....;-)
I'll have to check, I think I saw nylon draft tack somewhere.......


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## deserthorsewoman (Sep 13, 2011)

Yup, I was right. Jeffers has nylon draft tack. And leather;-)


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