# So I Switched...



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

from western to english! I would love a critique on both myself and my mare. I barrel raced before (well, hence the name "BarrelBunny") and she was mainly a kids/trail horse. She was my first horse and I have been with her for 8 years now. Really, she doesn't know much - everything that she does know I taught her (I was 9.. lol). I did teach her the pattern at the beginning of the year, but we only went to one race. Anyhoo, on with the pictures. I have been working really hard on my EQ this past week or so. These pictures are in chronological order - I'll include the dates. I feel like my biggest problem is that when I post I want to tense my upper body, so I lean forward, especially when we add speed. Oh, and you can't forget those super low hands.. *headdesk*

April 20 - just to show you what we started with... lol








June 12 - this is the picture that started the whole thing. I was very annoyed with how I looked and how it felt. 








June 13 - started playing with my stirrup length because I felt like they were so short; was thinking that it would help me relax.








June 18 - Too long! Felt like my feet came a little too far forward, but it did help me relax. 








June 20 - Definitely more relaxed, but then I let my arms/hands and shoulders get away from me.








June 21 - I feel like I was tensing again.. This was yesterday; critique please!








Oh, and just for fun, haha. The picture on the left was from April, The one on the right was two weeks ago.








Thanks!


----------



## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Don't be so critical of yourself! I think that you're doing a great job and I quite like your mare!

Here's what I notice.

- Your saddle could be scooted back a few inches. The "nail" (the buttons on either side of the pommel) of the saddle should be a few inches or "three fingers" behind the horse's point of shoulder.
- I'm impressed that you maintain a nice long, aligned leg in that jumping saddle! It's easy to slip forward into a chair seat in that kind of saddle. If you have another English saddle available to you (AP, dressage), it might be more comfortable to switch to one of those. Just make sure that when you're keeping your position, you're using your calves to hold your leg in place and not your knees.
- Try to bring your seatbones a little more underneath you by tucking your pelvis.

Do you have any video? I want to say something about your mare, but I'm not sure what! Someone more experienced might have to weigh in. My first reaction is that I love her relaxation, her stretch and her topline, but it's hard to tell if the horse just has a flat/roached back or not. Either way, she looks like a pleasure to ride!

I don't know how she responds to contact--sometimes she is behind the vertical, and I'm not sure if she is avoiding the bit or just looking for your hands. Here is my first instinct. I'd like to see you take a little more contact on her mouth. Shorten your reins, ride with your elbows a little more into your sides so there's a hint more angle between your forearm and your upper arm. Sit back and drive with your legs, think about pushing your seatbones down under you. Every time your mare dips her head down or tucks her nose back behind the vertical, push her forward and the simple action of using her hindquarters will bring her head back up.

Anyway, you two look lovely together and I wish you the best. Hopefully others can weigh in!


----------



## freia (Nov 3, 2011)

The biggest thing that stands out to me is the arch in your back. As existentialpony pointed out, tuck your pelvis in a little and straighten your back. That should help with that tense feeling, and will save your back too.
When she's standing still, take your feet out of the stirrups close your eyes. Now sit with your back straight and settle your butt into the deepest part of the saddle. Let your legs hang where they feel right - the saddle design will dictate this to quite an extent. Your irons should be hitting right about at your anklebone - give or take an inch. Now when to take back your stirrups, be sure to keep your butt deep and your back straight and get used to the feeling of that position. That will help you stay more upright when posting as well.

I love Barrelbunny. Pretty girl. She looks so athletic.


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Thank y'all so much!

existentialpony - This is the only saddle I have. I was told that it is an AP..? I'm looking into getting a different one eventually, but for now I have to put up with this one. It's my "starter saddle." :wink: I will definitely scoot it back a bit! As for me, what do you mean by "tuck my pelvis?" The only thing I can think of is "sitting" for a barrel turn, but I'm pretty sure that's not it. We've both been western our whole lives, so all of this is new to us. She does hold contact, but is not super consistent with it yet; she's still thinking I pick up on the bit, she gives. I'm thinking that will be something that will come with time?

I do have videos, but unfortunately I can't upload them. :-( Would love to, though! I can't wait to start taking lessons again!

freia - Thank you! I will definitely try that. I think my biggest problem is I don't know how it feels yet and I don't have anyone around who knows how it looks to tell me whether I have it right or not. It does help that I can come here for feedback, but it's still not the same. Oh, and her name is actually Sissy.


----------



## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Western ----> English is a sucky transition lol. So many crappy habits to break. I have a thread here about it too.Theres a lot of good advice there, and I bet we have some of the same issues!

http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/my-offical-english-riding-critique-thread-179889/


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Haha yes it is! That's alright though, I'm loving the challenge! Definitely subbing!


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Ok, sorry for the quality, but here's a screen shot from tonight! I was completely focused on myself, wasn't asking her for anything other than a nice, even trot. (To her, that means SLOW, haha) I wasn't too worried about it though, just trying to see what felt right versus what looks right. If I got it right, tomorrow I will be more worried about her. So.. comments, suggestions, tips, flying monkeys? :lol:


----------



## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

You look great! Elbows could be a little further back, but I can see that you're riding with a giving hand and that is the reason they've inched forward. I don't see a problem with it-- you have a nice line from elbow to hand to bit. I like your contact and how she's accepting it! You can already see how her poll is just about the highest point. Push her into that tomorrow and see how it goes! 

As for "tucking" your pelvis, you've already done it here! Ride Western in an English saddle--you've tucked your bum under you to sit more on your pants pockets (and therefore your seatbones). Most people who switch to English (me included!) tend to overexaggerate this cutesy pinup posture at first where they stick their butt out and arch their back (haha). Similar to sitting deep around a barrel, you will use your seat to get your horse working off of his hind end in English. Just make sure that when you sit like this, you use your calves to keep your leg from slipping forward.

Super awesome!!


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

loved Existenial ponie's critique! she knows her stuff.











and this one, a little less well lined up (for dressage), but still good.









take this photo , put girl in dressage saddle, add some nice breeches , helmet and gloves, and whoopee! it's a dressage girl~! the alignment screams "do dressage!".


----------



## Becca93 (Jan 22, 2009)

I don't have any critique because you have already received some awesome from the knowledge people above, but I just wanted to say how much you have improved from the first few photos to your more recent - excellent job


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

exsistentialpony - So glad I got it right! Will definitely work more on her today, while trying to keep myself looking decent, haha. I'm not very good at multitasking - hence the working on one part at a time. The next part is going to be using my calves.. :shock: This should be fun. I was taught to use my calves for speed, meaning no contact until asking to go faster. She's pretty smart, though, so I'm guessing she'll catch on relatively quickly.

tinyliny - That's the plan! Actually, getting boots/breeches within the next couple of weeks, then hopefully back to lessons! I'm probably going to have to wait a little while to get a new saddle. My question to you is, do I go ahead and get a dressage saddle or should I just get an AP for now?

Becca93 - Yes, I did get an awesome critique! So happy I came here. Thank you, I try my hardest! 

Thanks so much! I'm thinking that I'm going to keep posting pictures here for awhile, at least until y'all get tired of me.. :lol: I hope you don't mind!


----------



## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

You are doing very well. How long have you been at it? You look like you are doin a ton better than me!


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Thank you! I had my first lesson at the very beginning of the year; I want to say February-ish. From there, it's been on and off because of barrel racing. This is the first month that I am seriously looking to improve and wanting to pick a discipline! 

ETA: Yeah, I doubt that! You're doing pretty good, too!


----------



## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

Hehehe Tiny said exactly what I've been trying not to say this whole time about trying dressage, because I'm biased! I switched from Western to English at the beginning of this year (I'd ridden English before, but it was a loooong time ago and I rode jumpers) and was immediately drawn to dressage because I wanted to learn how to be more correct, and how to help my horse use his body more correctly and efficiently. I really love it! Everyone told me to just invest in a dressage saddle, but I bought a cheap AP first... then ended up buying a dressage saddle anyway. :lol: I'd say go for a dressage saddle when you can. I only use my AP for showing hunter pleasure.


----------



## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

The problem with only using your calves for speed is that you'll find it quite hard to post without your leg bouncing around, or sit the trot without your leg bouncing forward on every stride. The contact between your leg and the horse is just enough to keep your position (think about hugging the horse's barrel with your legs, not so much squeezing), but your leg will have all sorts of new purpose as you learn more about English.  I'm excited for you! I think you'll do really great.


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Haha that's super exciting for me! Out of all of the english disciplines, I have always liked dressage the best, and I knew that if I ever switched that's what I was going to try first. I'm definitely going for a dressage saddle, then!

I figured that right out from the start! :lol: Now, my lower leg stays pretty still, but it took awhile! It still moves with her motion, but not from me moving it. I wondered how other people kept their lower legs so still - now I understand why! Probably going to have to hang up my bumper spurs for awhile. Don't want to accidentally catch her with one of them. 

I'm excited for our ride tonight, 1 more hour to go until it's cool enough!


----------



## existentialpony (Dec 4, 2012)

BarrelBunny said:


> I'm excited for our ride tonight, 1 more hour to go until it's cool enough!


Ha! I'm in the same boat... waiting around until it drops below 100F... :|


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

I think it was 99F here today.. :shock: Supposed to be 100F+ later in the week. Plus, my aunt is dropping off one of her geldings for me to tune up. *sighs* Looks like I'm going to be up at the crack of dawn every morning to ride him, and riding my mare in the evenings. Yay me! :lol:


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

In the first post, look at your back in the first photo (when you started) and now look at the other photos. 

You are holding a LOT of tension in the recent photos, sticking your but out, and leaning forward. 

If you sort that out, I find you will have a nicer ride. 

Your hands are actually nearly perfect. Look at the line from the bit through the rein to your hands. It's almost straight, which is what you want.. not super high up. So I'd say your hands are probably the best aspect of your riding so far. 

I think you have your stirrups too short. The one picture you look "annoyed" is actually a very nice length. Now if you were to start jumping higher up, you'd probably have the stirrups shortened 2 holes max.

Make sure your neck stays over your shoulders, not swanning out. The human head weighs a LOT so if it's jutting out lik that you will be out of balance, which will affect your horse.

~~~

Now looking at the updated posting.. beautiful  Much much better!


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

I definitely knew that I had tension, pointed that right out! *does happy dance* I was told that my hands were too low (the very first picture) so from there, I picked them up a bit. Glad I at least got that part right! What do you think about my stirrup length in these pictures? They feel about right, but then what do I know? Haha. Didn't even notice my head sticking out - I remind myself of an ostrich (lol!). 

Alright, on to pictures! I was trying *very hard* to keep my calves touching her along with everything else we've been working on. 








In this one, I was more focused on her, I think, and I let myself slip a bit. -Maybe I was adjusting my reins? Dunno.








She wasn't too happy that she had to move out a bit tonight, haha. Lazy girl.


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

BarrelBunny said:


> I definitely knew that I had tension, pointed that right out! *does happy dance* I was told that my hands were too low (the very first picture) so from there, I picked them up a bit. Glad I at least got that part right! What do you think about my stirrup length in these pictures? They feel about right, but then what do I know? Haha. Didn't even notice my head sticking out - I remind myself of an ostrich (lol!).
> 
> Alright, on to pictures! I was trying *very hard* to keep my calves touching her along with everything else we've been working on.
> View attachment 217786
> ...


I definitely like your horse in the second picture more. She looks a lot more relaxed and nicely moving than the first one.. where she seems tense against your hands and stiff in her neck slightly.

~~

The thing about stirrup length is it has to be comfortable for you. Where it is now is good for where you are at. Depending on what you're doing, they could go longer or a hole shorter. You seem to be finding harmony with her so I wouldn't worry about that but moreso keeping your back softly relaxed and not leaning forward too much.


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

I agree, she seems a ton more relaxed in the second picture, which is why I posted it. As for my stirrups, I played around with the length, and found that this is comfortable for me. I was just wondering if they were supposed to be up/down. I will definitely work more on relaxing. It's kind of hard because my saddle is a bit too big and my bottom slides back where it should be, but my feet want to stay where they would be if I was that big. (Did that even make any sense?) I've been working to try and compromise between the two and meet in the middle. So far that's just making me tense, my upper body especially. Hopefully I will be able to get a new saddle that fits me! Unfortunately, there aren't any english places around here (I'm in MAJOR cowboy territory), so I had to buy this one off of the 'net. They said it was a 16.5", but really, it's a 17". :?


----------



## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

Videos? It would be so much more helpful. 
I had to ship my saddle across two provinces! I know how you feel!


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

BarrelBunny said:


> I agree, she seems a ton more relaxed in the second picture, which is why I posted it. As for my stirrups, I played around with the length, and found that this is comfortable for me. I was just wondering if they were supposed to be up/down. I will definitely work more on relaxing. It's kind of hard because my saddle is a bit too big and my bottom slides back where it should be, but my feet want to stay where they would be if I was that big. (Did that even make any sense?) I've been working to try and compromise between the two and meet in the middle. So far that's just making me tense, my upper body especially. Hopefully I will be able to get a new saddle that fits me! Unfortunately, there aren't any english places around here (I'm in MAJOR cowboy territory), so I had to buy this one off of the 'net. They said it was a 16.5", but really, it's a 17". :?


Something you can do to help with relaxing is take your feet out of the stirrups (at a walk) and stretch your toes down, then up. Focus on sinking your seat bones into the saddle.

If you feel really brave, flex your leg at the knee and bring your ankle up towards the cantle of your saddle. Reach down, grab your ankle and hold it up so your knee is pointing down. sit up tall and sink into the saddle as the horse continues to walk on.

What this does, is it shows you that the ONLY things you need to stay on the horse, are your seatbones. Not your hands nor your legs.

To release your leg, do so slowly so you don't kick your horse.

I feel once you relax.. everything will just snap right into place 

~~

I wish my spare saddle was smaller because I'd send it over.. but it's 17" as well :/


----------



## QHriderKE (Aug 3, 2011)

I think a 17" fits you just fine. What brand is your saddle? It looks like an older off brand


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Sorry, I can't upload videos, but oh, how I wish I could! Our internet is a retarded broadband thing. I have to plug it into the computer - it's awful! I can't watch or upload videos off of here! ...But maybe I could try off of my phone?! I never thought about that.. I'll try!

Thanks, Sky! I will definitely try that! I feel pretty safe on this mare - she was my first horse. I've been with her for 8 years now! 

It is pretty big for me. My western saddle is a 14.5" if that makes a difference, haha. This saddle is a Blue Ridge, apparently. I got it for $100 with fittings, so it's pretty cheap, but it fits her, and that's really all I was looking for.


----------



## GamingGrrl (Jan 16, 2013)

Ugh! I'm so jealous of your heels. Your entire leg position actually! :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

GamingGrrl said:


> Ugh! I'm so jealous of your heels. Your entire leg position actually! :lol:
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Haha thank you! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Sorry about tonight's picture.. :shock: I'm going to need to move that barrel again. Anyhoo, tonight I was tired before I went to ride, and let my seat get a little bit away from me, but, I felt super relaxed for once! I think tomorrow will be much better. I really wish I had someone on the ground to coach me through it, gonna have to get my mom out to "take pictures." :wink: Pretty sure this is just going to take time for me to get used to, then one day it will just click - well, at least that's what I'm hoping for!


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Lovely position, it sure shows that you were relaxed!!  Just make sure your hands are nice and supportive by being more upright with thumb ontop and not turning into flat stiff hands.


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Lovely position, it sure shows that you were relaxed!!  Just make sure your hands are nice and supportive by being more upright with thumb ontop and not turning into flat stiff hands.


Thank you! It's so exciting how for I've come. - will keep working on my hands. I keep wanting to turn them flat. I'll get it right one of these days! :lol:


----------



## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Girl I knew once you relaxed it would click for you! 

Now each ride once she gets really good at allowing contact and you are good with giving the rein once she gives, you can begin to put more leg on so she really steps under herself and begins to use more of her hind end instead of being heavy in front.

You can start doing lots and lots of figures and transitions (a few strides of each gait before you transition up or down) and she'll start to use her back more so.

But don't rush the process.. so bit by bit. Gauge what she's ready for, and what you are ready for


----------



## BarrelBunny (Jan 15, 2012)

I definitely want to fix myself first, then we'll work on this mare. :wink: That's going to be a whole 'nother challenge in itself, haha. I know that she'll let me know when she's ready; always has. We'll probably start doing that out on the "trail" though so that we have more room. I just like working on myself in a closed space - accidents happen!


----------

