# Stop your horse vs "ask him to stop"



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I took big Zulu out for ride on my own today. He was a bit fresh since we had not ridden for a week. I have been working with him on getting him to stop, and not requiring a really heavy pull for him to do it.

I discovered that I need to prepare him more to stop (he is 17 hh and 1400 pounds, so it's like steering a cruise ship) and once he starts to make the mental change over to responding to my "ask" to stop, I need to kind of stay out of his way and let him do it. I mean, I was trying to use my rein and body to stop him when he was powering through the bit, and it felt like I had to put up this big "wall" and I was trying to hold this wall (firm, closed hand and a firm abs to hold him) until he came to a full stop.

I found today that when I asked him to stop, once I felt him mentally decide to respond to that, I could really ease up and allow him to complete the decision on his own, and he stopped a lot more balanced, and a lot less work for me.

So, it made me think about the way of phrasing the stop;

the difference between *"Stop the horse"* and *"Ask him to stop"*

Stop the horse is like braking your car; you must continue to apply pressure til it stops.

Ask him to stop is giving him a directive and waiting for him to accept it , then you stop asking while he completes the task.

Very different.

just my meanderings of the mind.


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## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

I suppose it depends on what you are doing (ie dressage, trail riding) and how fast you are going.
Keeping in mind that I almost exclusively trail ride, I don't mind occasionally just 'asking' for a stop when we are cantering. Kinda like taking your foot of the gas and coasting to a stop.
At the same time, if I Need a quick Woah, then I guess it is like laying on the brakes, lol. Cliff ahead!
Driving lessons 101!


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

tinyliny said:


> I took big Zulu out for ride on my own today. He was a bit fresh since we had not ridden for a week. I have been working with him on getting him to stop, and not requiring a really heavy pull for him to do it.
> 
> I discovered that I need to prepare him more to stop (he is 17 hh and 1400 pounds, so it's like steering a cruise ship) and once he starts to make the mental change over to responding to my "ask" to stop, I need to kind of stay out of his way and let him do it. I mean, I was trying to use my rein and body to stop him when he was powering through the bit, and it felt like I had to put up this big "wall" and I was trying to hold this wall (firm, closed hand and a firm abs to hold him) until he came to a full stop.
> 
> ...


I had to learn this one too...my 16.3 tb/wb needed more out of me on a stop. Nice to hear it "voiced"!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, it's just amazing how different things are if your mind and the horse's mind are on the same page.

I mean, I can make Zulu back up, but the feeling is really differnet if I "pull" him back to if I ask him back. When I ask, and don't stop asking until I see his thought going there, he backs up on a feather's weight on the rein.

I mostly trail ride, too. I spend a lot of my time when riding observing my horse as we go along and "watching " his thought. Horses are so wonderfully transparent about that.


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## Wallaby (Jul 13, 2008)

Tiny, I like the way you think. I totally get what you're saying.
It reminds me of how sometimes Lacey will decide to "forget" the stop cue and no matter how hard I try to force the stop, it's never going to happen. If I forget about forcing her to stop and use my body+voice (in the form of "deadening" my body and growling her name) she'll generally stop very quickly. 
I often forget to ask for the stop and command it instead... I know what my goal for my next ride is! haha

I also observe while I trail ride...I feel like we could come up with some cool theories if we ever trail rode together. :lol:


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## Skipsfirstspike (Mar 22, 2010)

Tiny, regarding whether your mind and your horse's mind are in sync.
I had an interesting experience years ago with Spike, my heart horse, the one in my avatar. This was about 16 years ago, when I first got him.
Back then, he was a nice boy, but very introverted. He had never really been mistreated, but never been really loved either. He was very uninterested in things, generally. At the time, we were doing a lot of riding in a small paddock, about the size of a large arena. He would walk and trot fine, but would only canter a few strides before slowing again. I tried everything I knew at the time, which was basically just squeeze harder, lean forward, and shout encouragement.
After a few weeks of this, I was getting very discouraged. My first horse, wont even canter?
So one day I went home, and just sat there and envisioned us cantering around the whole paddock. I 'saw' us do it, again and again. Next day, driving out to the barn, I imagined it again.
And yes, as soon as I mounted, we took off on a beautiful canter all the way around the paddock. Then we did it 4 more times! lol
So what was different? My cues? My body language? I don't know. I like to think that maybe he picked up on my brainwaves, and he saw it too.
Lol, anyway, that is my true story about my mind and my horse's mind finally being in sync.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, I feel very fortunate to have had some training in the last few years where my trainer frequently said, "Where is his thought?". My dressage trainer never said that. So, I'd be trying to do all kinds of stuff with the horse, whose doing it, very poorly and very resentfully because his thought is not with me. 
This doesn't mean I am going to "beg" my horse for his thought. But it does mean I won't accept him backing up while still mentally (and sometimes physically) leaning on the rein to go forward. It's pointless to try and direct him to do things if his though is far away. Either do what it takes to get his though with you, or realize that he cannot give up that thought (like a deep seated buddy sour horse) right now, and work out a plan for helping him give up that need. 

I rejoice in getting Zulu to bring his thought to me , or give up his own thought and respond to me, lighter and easier. Z likes to balk at times, and when I can get him to give up that thought easily, it's just a nice feeling of knowing that he is willing to give over to me , but I also kind of like that he does keep his own mind and it shows up from time to time.

I am not such a fast killer rider, not doing barrels or high level dressage, so have too much slow time on my hands, thus the lengthy brain farts.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

It's similar to that with barrel horses when finishing their run at a show...Riders push, push, push in the arena and then expect their horse to stop quickly from a flat out run. That's not likely to happen, there are rare horses that can though (or reiners, that still slide)...I know mine don't.. they need a vocal "whoa, easy" and pressure from me telling them to stop. It takes a little ways for the horse to go from such a high speed to a walk, and even after that walk I'll back my horses a few steps to reinforce that "whoa" then continue at a forward walk to cool my horse down and let them calm down..All in all in barrel racing, you warm up slow and you cool off slow..


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

Tiny I also like the way you think! you have a good perception on things =)
I always ask for everything but if I ask it I want my horses to still follow through with the direction. I only force something if I am training and the horse ignored my jester, or if I am just being ignored.
I like using my voice, Grady does everything but turn, off of my voice... backing isnt his strong suit so I still sit deep and put my legs forward. I think if your horse is well broke and paying attention asking is all it should take it. But trust me I know that even the best have their days haha:wink:


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Drum, I did barrel racing all of ONCE. Mac had done it in his past, so I was depending on him to take care of me . He went La Di da around the first two barrels, like barely cantering. then on the back side of the third, he want ZOOM! and accelerated so fast I nearly flipped off his backside. AND, I felt something go "crunch" in my lower back. So, 4 years later I still have back trouble. NO barrels for me!

But I can see what you are saying; Ask the horse to stop, trust him to implament the "ask" but be fair and give him the time and space to do what he can with his size, mass and speed.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Exactly, I agree with you on the asking vs, stopping. That can be a very big difference for many people and disciplines. 

Barrel horses definitely know to head for home after the third barrel..Sorry you had a not so fun experiences with it though, it really is a ton of fun when you get the hang of it.


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

in this case I am only referring to pleasure riding, I understand that sometimes during somethings no matter how broke your horse is you cannot simply ask and receive. =)


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I pat myself on the back for being a reasonably ballsy older rider, considering I started riding rather late in life. But I am very much aware of things I will never do, and one of them is barrel racing. I do SO regret not getting into horses earlier.
Now where is that time machine when you need it?


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

I would love to give barrel racing a go, but there is no one that does it around here! Big jump from flouncy dressage rider to wanting to give barrels a go  But it looks like so much fun!!!! 

As for stopping - I guess in all disciplines the general principal is the same - that you give the horse some kind of warning of what you want to do, rather than just hauling on the reins out of nowhere an expecting an immediate stop. 
In dressage, we try to set the horse up for success, to make a well balanced transition to the halt. So in the steps in the lead up to the halt, are spent rebalancing, making sure the horse is as engaged as his level of training allows, and that as soon as we ask for the stop, the horse will be able to easily sit on its haunches, and stop without losing balance.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Kayty, you could do it...Really, I have loads of respect for Dressage and eventers, I don't think it's flouncy at all, you have to have SO much control at all times.. I would feel like the most awkward person if I tried it. With anything new you just have to stick with it until you start to get it..


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

*Oh my..*

I wish I could ask my horse to stop and he'd listen. Transitions are great, both up and down (though canter is a bit rough..) Stopping?? Oh heck no. You could knit a sweater and grow your very own beard before he stopped!

He does this really weird walking 0.4 miles an hour "shuffle".. and then 3 minutes later he'll stop. No matter how much pressure you put on the reins.

It's such a weird concept to him, standing still, slowing down, not running for his life.. 

Maybe when I get back he'll be better at it. I never did learn how to properly stop so I've just been kind of sitting up taller but sinking down, stopping motion in my hips and slowly close my fingers around the reins. And I know he's paying attention... but I don't think he knows what I mean. Even if I say ho, he won't do it. Even on the ground, I always have to step in front of his shoulder to get him to stop. 

And obviously me hauling on the reins doesn't help the situation at all.. but when he does stop, it's a beautiful square ASAP halt. But it rarely happens!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

They are certainly very different disciplines, hence I'd love to give it a go. I do like to get a feel for what other people do, I think doing the same thing day in day out gives you quite a narrow mind on your riding. So though I am a dressage rider through and through, I am a bit of a thrill seaker as well! I love nothing more than taking my horses out to the beach or through the forrest and going for a mad gallop. Can't beat the adrenelin rush 
Dressage I get a rush from, but a different type of rush. It feeds my perfectionist nature, and I get a great feeling of satisfaction in working for perfection. The same sort of satisfaction I get from doing a really good piece of art!

Hmmmm you've got me keen to try my hand at something different now! I have never ridden in a western saddle... I've ridden breakers in an Aussie/Stock saddle, (that god for those knee blocks when they turn bronc! Sitting out tantrums in a dressage saddle certainly puts the wind up you :S


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Kayty said:


> They are certainly very different disciplines, hence I'd love to give it a go. I do like to get a feel for what other people do, I think doing the same thing day in day out gives you quite a narrow mind on your riding. So though I am a dressage rider through and through, I am a bit of a thrill seaker as well! I love nothing more than taking my horses out to the beach or through the forrest and going for a mad gallop. Can't beat the adrenelin rush
> Dressage I get a rush from, but a different type of rush. *It feeds my perfectionist nature, and I get a great feeling of satisfaction in working for perfection. The same sort of satisfaction I get from doing a really good piece of art!*
> 
> Hmmmm you've got me keen to try my hand at something different now! I have never ridden in a western saddle... I've ridden breakers in an Aussie/Stock saddle, (that god for those knee blocks when they turn bronc! Sitting out tantrums in a dressage saddle certainly puts the wind up you :S


Exactly! I think this is how it is with every discipline. I would rather a perfectly correct and pretty run than have a fast time and be all over the place anyday..

I think when a rider stops have those adrenaline rushes they need to take a step back and take a break from riding that discipline..If you aren't having fun and not loving every minute of it your horse and judges know it. After growing up and riding in so many different settings and Western and English, I have a great respect and open mind for the other disciplines and riders..I may poke fun at my friends who ride English but I would never bash them..I can't even post on the right diagonal half of the time, and it irritates me so much!


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

There seems to be a very big Western riding culture in the US. Here in Australia, there is very little. Some, there's the usual QH's and Aussie stock horses, but english is certainly a much bigger scene. Where I live in particular, you do a double take when you see a horse decked out in western gear because you hardly see it!!


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Even though Western riders out number English riders in Georgia, there are still quite a bit of English people..Especially living so close to Perry, and the Georgia National Ag Center, we see a huge variety of disciplines here..My aunt and uncle, before divorcing last year, owned one of the highest ranked training barns in Georgia. They trained and gave lessons in everything from Western Pleasure, Reining, English Equitation, HUS, Showmanship..the whole deal..I worked with them as much as possible and tried to get my hands on everything..


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## Kayty (Sep 8, 2009)

Well I greatly envy for you for having those sorts of opportunities DR, I am so limited here. It is basically the 3 main english disciplines - dressage, show jumping and eventing. Then the hackies (show horses) that I have zero interest in. Western, well there's a few camp drafting comps around, and a little bit of western pleasure stuff, but thats about it. A handful of vaulters come and go. Its all quite boring really!


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## thesilverspear (Aug 20, 2009)

Last summer, I was cantering -- more of a hand gallop, really -- through the woods near the stable when a child, a lad of about 11 years old, jumped out of a tree and into the middle of the trail, not more than fifteen feet in front of us. My mare did a gallop-halt that would have made a reining horse proud (though I did wonder why that kid, on seeing a galloping horse, thought, "I know, I'll jump out of this tree in front of it." The mare is half Shire -- you can hear her gallop a mile away). The thing with that incident is that at the moment the kid appeared, seemingly out of nowhere in front of us, was that the horse and I had this unity of purpose. I don't remember asking for the halt, or thinking, "We should halt." I just thought "Holy sh-!" and it was, for all intents and purposes, a correct halt; not bracing, perfectly balanced. Not like some of our halts in the dressage ring where I am thinking carefully about it and get too involved in faffing about, which really means I get quite bracey through my arms and back, and the halt consequently sucks. 

Mark Rashid discusses this sort of thing in his book on aikido and horsemanship. He says that when the rider is incredibly clear and directed, not just in the way they ask but *mainly* in their own mind, the horse picks up on it so the rider need not even "tell" the horse what to do. I experienced this in the anecdote above. On another ride, a loose dog came after my trail companion and I. I was in the lead, the other horse following, and the dog came up behind the rear horse, who got nervous and spooky. I don't remember asking or telling my horse to wheel around and charge the dog; I just remember thinking, "We need to chase that damned thing off Prince's heels," and then we were doing it. On the trail, or over a course of jumps, stuff is happening that we need to react to, actual, concrete stuff, and I can be much more directive -- not, to reiterate, in how I cue the horse, but in my own mind. But this is what the horse responds to.

Dressage, on the other hand (at least when I do it), lends itself to lots of waffling. In my case, far more waffle than you'd get in an IHOP.  "She needs to bend more," "She's not round enough," "That shoulder-in was crap," "I need to let go of the inside rein," "Oh dear, we just went hollow in that canter transition (possibly due to me not letting go of the inside rein)," "If I were less crap, she'd be more underneath herself," "Half-pass, good, good- squirrel!" I imagine riders who are good at dressage achieve that clarity in their riding while in the dressage ring, even while the sport itself is inherently quite faffy. The way I ride it, I'll start an exercise thinking, "I'm going to half-pass from the centre line to the rail on the right bend, switch the bend, and pick up my left lead canter." By the time I've completed the half-pass, I'll have completely forgotten I was going to canter and will have done something else. That clarity of purpose eludes us and means I have to "ask" and "tell" my horse what to do, as she has no idea (and chances are, neither do I).


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Tiny, you are on the road to developing a light and sensitive horse.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> This doesn't mean I am going to "beg" my horse for his thought. But it does mean I won't accept him backing up while still mentally (and sometimes physically) leaning on the rein to go forward. It's pointless to try and direct him to do things if his though is far away. Either do what it takes to get his though with you, or realize that he cannot give up that thought (like a deep seated buddy sour horse) right now, and work out a plan for helping him give up that need.


 Love it Tinyliny. Reread it once I got some sleep (2 hours outta do it!) and it's making a lot more sense to me. Though have there been times when you feel them start thinking "oh I need to stop" and then you ease up and they think "oh.. never mind then, walking on" ?? How would you work with that then?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Saddlebag said:


> Tiny, you are on the road to developing a light and sensitive horse.


 

Thankyou. That made my day.
Zulu is not light, yet, but is certainly capable of it. Currently, his owner has kindly been allowing me to ride him free of charge, as I keep him excersized and "loved" on. I dont' have the skill or physical ability to jump him, as he is a dandy but very strong jumper, so I do what I can; building in sensitivity. 
Yes, you can build in sensitivity, just as you dull it out.

With regard to Sky's comment about her horse not stopping well when "asked". To me , it sounds like the horse is stopping because you are making him do so, but his mind is not there. He stops, obeying (eventually) her correct body cues. But his mind continues going out there. All I can say to that is that the "ask" might have to get a lot, lot stronger and "un ignorable" for a bit, so that she can start making it less and less and less. But it might get uglier first.

If Sky were running through my stop "asks", I would up them big time until he both stopped and thought back to me, even if he was irritated or upset about it. I would haul on his mouth real hard, or I would bend him around and around until I saw his ear and eye come back to me and could see that he had given up his thought to go forward and was looking back to me for "Now what?"
It's that way the horse looks back to the rider with a "now what?" that tells me his thought has come back to me. Sometimes he wont' go that far, but maybe just flick and ear, or exhale a bit more. It may not be dramatic, and at first I may settle for just intereupting the strength of the horse's thought if he is very hardly focusses on something . LIke, if other horses are running away ahead of him. 

This is something I will have to deal with on Zulu. He gets very upset if , when not leadin, the horses canter in front of him. He reacts by bucking, and I mean bucking! So, knowing that I am not a bronc rider and cannot afford to come off (God willing) I am working on getting him to come back to me mentally, frequently and easily.
When it gets harder, I hope that I will have built a pathway and can bring him back to me without too much drama. I don't know, however, how willing I am too test it out.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Skyseternalangel said:


> Love it Tinyliny. Reread it once I got some sleep (2 hours outta do it!) and it's making a lot more sense to me. *Though have there been times when you feel them start thinking "oh I need to stop" and then you ease up and they think "oh.. never mind then, walking on" ?? How would you work with that then?*





If you signalled your horse for a stop and he starts to do it, you change your mind but your horse is still stopping? I guess it depends on the horse. Some really light , well trained horses like those that work cows can adapt quickly to a new "ask", so you could change you mind and ask them to move on. Zulu is too big and heavy to really do that, -yet-. If I had asked for a halt, but changed my mind as he was breaking from into a walk from a trot, I would let him , then thank him with a pat, then ask for the next gait. 
I want to be fair with my horse. If he does what I asked then I would never want to be too quick and say ,"nope, not that , you big dummy, I really want to trot".

However, I do work with him doing this; I trot out, ask him to slow (as if I am easing into a walk) then , just as he's about to walk , I ask for a lively step into a trot before he actually comes down to a full walk. I think that's training for "half halts" is it not , dressage ladies?


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> If you signalled your horse for a stop and he starts to do it, you change your mind but your horse is still stopping?


It's more the reverse.. I keep my idea of "let's stop" and he's like okay... and then when I start to ease up he says "oh but I rather keep going so.. I'm going to keep going" so I apply the slowing aids again... "fine I'll stop.. but are you suuuuure? Walking is just so much better!!" so then my fingers are closed, my legs are closed, my butt is as deep as it can go, letting my weight travel down. And then he starts doing this weird.. sloth crawl.

But tonight he didn't.. he stopped right away, square every time. So yay!


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

Thats awesome! Grady does that from time to time haha Its like he thinks if hes moving slow enough I wont notice :rofl: I laugh every time.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

my trainer says that when you go through the "steps" of aksing for the stop, the last one will be for you to close your hand. At that point, the horse has had plenty of warning, and if he isn't listening then it's time to be firm about it.

Walk along. pick a place about 20 feet ahead of you. Begin your signals that you are asking for a halt; deepenign your seat, firming your core, shoulders back and lower, firming your elbow to your side and taking up a bit more rein contact.
AS you approach the SPOT you picked out that will be your exact stopping place. when your body crosses that spot you hands will have (little by little ) become firm and now they will be as heavy and firm as concrete. YOu will GLUE him to that spot. if he keeps walking you give ZERO. literally think of your elbow as being attached to that spot that you picked out. Whatever distance he went past the place where every once of your body was saying "STOP!" is distance he must back up, right back to that spot. he backs up to that spot. BUT, do not release the rein until he gives to it. Dont' just hold him there with him leaning on it. HOld it until you feel him say "oh, should I lift my head off the bit? then reward bigtime.

AS you go along you can prepare for stopping on this spot by the last three steps he takes, approaching the stop spot, you breath outward in short exhales and count, out loud, One, Two, three (and it's CONCRETE hands!)

You horse will get better and better at feeling those three prep steps to stop and if he goes past hat spot, you have concrete hand that are chained to that spot, to which he must retreat if he expects to have some freedom.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

tinyliny said:


> my trainer says that when you go through the "steps" of aksing for the stop, the last one will be for you to close your hand. At that point, the horse has had plenty of warning, and if he isn't listening then it's time to be firm about it.
> 
> 
> You horse will get better and better at feeling those three prep steps to stop and if he goes past hat spot, you have concrete hand that are chained to that spot, to which he must retreat if he expects to have some freedom.


Yeah my hands are last, I was just listing the things I do. But evenso.. he bullies his way through them. He can be a huge bully at times. 

Hopefully he works through it with others. They all tell me he has a horrible stop. But how am I supposed to teach him if no one taught me lol.

Anyway, tonight he was great so woo!


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

Grady had the most horrendous stop ever when I got him, he was rode in a snaffle he was happier with a halter/ hack but had NO stop with one. I was young and stupid and a friend told me to try a mechanical hack or a jar breaker most commonly called around here. I did use it correctly, but a couple times I know I used too much force. But after awhile he stopped on a dime... Now that I am more experienced I can now say My friend is an idiot for giving me such advice and I was one for taking it. 
Getting my young horses to soften at the poll is the EASIEST way to increase a stop, that and every time you stop ask for five smooth steps back, this helps big time.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

farley said:


> Grady had the most horrendous stop ever when I got him, he was rode in a snaffle he was happier with a halter/ hack but had NO stop with one. I was young and stupid and a friend told me to try a mechanical hack or a jar breaker most commonly called around here. I did use it correctly, but a couple times I know I used too much force. But after awhile he stopped on a dime... Now that I am more experienced I can now say My friend is an idiot for giving me such advice and I was one for taking it.
> Getting my young horses to soften at the poll is the EASIEST way to increase a stop, that and every time you stop ask for five smooth steps back, this helps big time.


Yeah we struggle with back. He gaps his mouth and refuses to budge and then when he does, I ease up a LOT and then he pulls the reins down, like he has enough room to stretch but he wants to stretch all the way to the ground, as an evasion.

Grr


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

where are your hands when you ask him to back??


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

farley said:


> where are your hands when you ask him to back??


 Where they usually are? I don't know if I understand your question


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

where are your hands when you are asking him to back? are your hands in front of your stomach or down by your knees/hips . Sometimes by lowering your hands you are forcing his head down into toward his chest which is easier for then to collect and back it also teaches him to drop his poll and give to the pressure. Otherwise your horse may want to fight the pressure and toss their heads this can make them stumble back and learn to hold their heads while backing. Also First ask them to only take a few steps and release and then gradually increase the steps once he understands.


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## Skyseternalangel (Jul 23, 2011)

By my hips, I don't ever put them lower than that.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

farley said:


> where are your hands when you are asking him to back? are your hands in front of your stomach or down by your knees/hips . Sometimes by lowering your hands you are forcing his head down into toward his chest which is easier for then to collect and back it also teaches him to drop his poll and give to the pressure. Otherwise your horse may want to fight the pressure and toss their heads this can make them stumble back and learn to hold their heads while backing. Also First ask them to only take a few steps and release and then gradually increase the steps once he understands.


 
I completely disagree with lowering the hands to ask for a stop, certainly applying any pressure while your hands are lower is not good; it puts more downward pressure on the bars of the mouth and in my experience, teaches the horse to tuck his nose back toward chest in an evasion of the bit. Once a horse starts tucking behind the bit, it is one of the hardest habits to break. Much harder to train a horse out of going behind the bit than to train it out of going above the bit.

YOu maintain the elbow to hand to bit alingment, whether going forward or backward. IF the horse raises his head to avoid the bit, you follow him up, and when he chooses to come back down again, you encourage that thought with a slight softening of the hand.

In any case, there are loads of threads on how to back up a hrose. I do, however, agree that while training good stops, it's not a bad idea to back the horse up a few steps. how many depends on when you feel him really put his mind into the process, lift his shoulders and neck (not throw his head in the air, lift the base of his neck) and LIFT his front legs backward rather than dragging them across the ground. When you feel that, then release.


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

well thats good and yea just work on him softening at the poll and backing a few steps at a time =)


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## farley (May 23, 2010)

mmm I have never Had that happen... But I can definitely see that happening. However when I use this technique my horses are already soft at the poll and willingly drop their heads for me, with there heads downward they move backward so nicely as opposed to them not lowering their heads.


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