# Trail Etiquette?



## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

First, don’t let that “six years” experience she has control your thinking as to how to approach a dangerous and rude behavior

More years sitting on a horse does not necessarily mean the person can handle a horse, nor that they have any common sense.

That woman doesn’t know how lucky she is that she never ran up on a horse like my Rusty - he would have kicked with both barrels and kicked hard.

It is not up to everybody else to cowtow to her because she cannot or will not control her horse. Being generous regarding a green horse or green rider is one thing but this woman has been sitting atop a horse for six years — she ought to have learned a thing or two by now

You’re in a bit of a dilemma as she boards at the same barn. If she has already been counseled and evidently hasn’t taken the talk to heart, you probably should not ride with her anymore and stick to your guns.

If the day comes that she would ask why you won’t ride with her, then tell her why. I wouldn’t swear but I wouldn’t bother to be politically correct either, letting her know she’s been asked before to control her horse.

If it were me in your shoes, I would have ripped her a new one a long time ago. What she is doing is dangerous, I have zero tolerance for stupidity on the trail, lollol


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## egrogan (Jun 1, 2011)

I do think the long term solution is to not ride with her, but I understand there are times and reasons why you might have to.

So, sometimes it helps to make it about you, not highlight their bad behavior. I don't know why, but I find sometimes people like this can hear your message more clearly if they don't perceive you're attacking them. Some options:
-"It makes me nervous when there's another horse rushing us along because I don't want to sit a buck. Will you go ahead of us instead of behind?"
-Before the ride: "I'm not comfortable doing any more than trotting down X stretch of trail, so if you want a more exciting ride go ahead out without us."
-"I'm really working on Tobi not rushing home so I'm going to do a lot of circling and changing of direction once we get to X part of the trail- can you be sure to give us a lot of room there?"
-If there's room on your trails: "Can we practice riding side-by-side vs. one in front of the other so I can work on pacing with Tobi?"

People who are more direct than me might just say: "I'm not enjoying our rides because you let your horse crowd me constantly. Trail etiquette is one horse length at all times, and if that doesn't work for you let's not ride together."

I wouldn't let her "experience" be a reason not to speak up for yourself- it's clear that it's not years that matter, it's good sense and good decisions. And for the record, I agree with your safety concerns about having a horse up your horse's tail. Yes, in theory all good trail horses *should* be able to handle another horse crowding them from any side, but it's not fair to ask them to tolerate that all ride, every ride.


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

If she asks why you will no longer ride with her tell her that she frightens you to much. 

Tell her that you do not want to see her or her horse with a broken leg (and stress that hers will mend, the horse's will not) 

That way you are not being mean or what might be perceived as rude but will get the point across. 

If and when your instructor rides with you then they should put this person in their place or send them home.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

There are 2 kinds of riders. One has 6 years of experience and has learned trail etiquette and common sense and safety concerns. The other has 6 months of riding experience 12 times and has learned nothing. This person is the second kind of rider. I would not ride with her, even with the instructor along because YOU are the one who will end up hurt. The instructor can probably survive whatever this woman does or doesn't do on the trail. You, lacking her years of experience on many different horses in many different scenarios, probably would not. It'd be a shame for you and your horse to get hurt or so scared and soured on the trail that you no longer went. 

If you don't want to say anything to her, then just don't be available when she wants to go. If you want to say something then I would just tell her that until she has learned proper trail etiquette and how to control her horse, you don't care to ride with her. Those kinds or riders seem to never get hurt, it's always someone else.


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## boots (Jan 16, 2012)

It's too had you can't fire her. That's what dangerous riders at ranchers, or in polo, have happen. 

Barring that, I'm with @Foxhunter's approach.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

I agree with the others, not safe to ride with this person. If she asks why you don't want to ride with her just tell her you don't want to see her or you or your horses get hurt because she is not in control of her horse.

If you do end up having to ride with her for any reason I would suggest you always make sure you are behind her, that way you don't have her barreling up behind you and ask that she do not canter off ahead of you because that could lead to the horses getting all excited and you don't want that. You could explain that you want your horse to learn to be a steady dependable trail horse and riding with her isn't going to help with that.

Good luck it's a shame that a rider like this spoils the ride for everybody else and she doesn't seem to learn no matter how many years she has been riding.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I like @egrogan's advice. Talk it out with her. If her horse is too pushy, let her horse lead., or have her circle , or let her do 'leap frog' with you, and make it into a game. Unless your trails are truly limited by rocks or heavy brush, just because there is a mark on the ground, doesn't mean you can't walk off th trail to do circles, if needed.


Also, carry a dressage whip, and when her horse gets too close, just casually have that whip sticking out behind you and flip it into the nose fo that mare. after a couple of times, she wont' come so close.


Cantering together is probably not smart with this horse/woman combination . It jsut throws fuel on a flame.


I've ridden many times with people I did not particularly want to ride with. I ended up ' babysitting' them. But, they needed help and company, and that's just what we do for each other. If it's a case of total out of control, and a rider who won't cooperate with some ideas for better control, then one ride is all they get with me.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

Back when I used to ride with mecate reins a lot, I had a guy I rode with very similar to the lady you ride with OP. During the ride I asked him several times to not ride up on use like that, as his horse would start chewing on my saddle pad and I hate that. After the fourth or fifth time, I started flicking the tail end of my mecate back there and popping his horse in the nose. She decided she really didn't want to be back there after all, and hung back a few feet. Not much, but enough so that I no longer felt her breathing on my back, anyway. I guess her rider got the message after a few rides and started keeping her back a bit more …. or maybe that's because he let her ride up on another horse and that mare double barreled his mare. The world may never know … 

I'd ask the rider to fix it once, and if she doesn't, I really like @tinyliny's idea. Get that dressage whip out and go for that nose, she'll back off ya. I won't let somebody else's inaction hurt my animals. I won't allow it. I will politely ask you to control your critter, and if your inability to do so creates a safety issue with my critter, I'm going to step in before my critter is injured. Or myself. Or you, for that matter. I don't want to see anybody injured when it could have been prevented. 

-- Kai


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

we had a man, John, who owned his own horse. He was a nut case when it came to riding! He thought that the moment his horse's feet touched grass his right was to canter. This was fine when he was on his own but when he joined in with Riding Club events he was a nightmare. Especially as there's were many happy hackers who just enjoyed the arranged events but couldn't cope with John galloping off and charging around all over the place. 

I didn't often participate in these events but when I did I would really have a go at John and, on one occasion actually put a lead rein on his mare and held onto it! 

An event was arranged where we travelled with and without horses to the mainland where many were leant or hired horses so we could all ride with their Riding club. 

All was done to hide this event from John but unfortunately he found out and brought his mare. 

He behaved in his normal way and charged off. He even managed to gallop through about twenty riders upsetting their horses. I had a right Royal go at him but he was still totally thoughtless. 

We came to a long ride and he took off. The local riders all said to follow them, we rode through some pretty close growing trees and literally hid from him. We saw him gallop back and then turn to gallop past us again. 

We weaved through the trees onto another track and had a wonderful ride without John! 

He didn't catch the same ferry as everyone else so we guessed he had got lost. All we did was laugh. 

John was a very intelligent man, he had a high powered job and was interesting to talk to but he just would not learn riding etiquette. Years later I met him at a social event and he did own the fact that he totally messed his horse up with his poor riding. She had ended up with blown tendons.


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## Kaifyre (Jun 16, 2016)

Foxhunter said:


> Years later I met him at a social event and he did own the fact that he totally messed his horse up with his poor riding. She had ended up with blown tendons.


Ergh. See. This here … this here really makes me hot. Idiots like that shouldn't be allowed the privilege of sharing their lives with these wonderful animals. I can't even. 

-- Kai


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

The lady I used to ride with out West had a friend she usually brought with her, who rode without any control over her (borrowed from the first lady) horse. She also had been riding for many years, had learned nothing at all. She fully admitted that she had no interest in learning anything and just liked to be out on the trail with her friend. Also a nice lady, I just ended up hating her guts ...

Eventually I just wouldn't go out with Lady #1 if she brought her friend. I've complained about her before on this board -- she's the one who never and I mean for one second shut up, and never said one interesting thing. Her horse, a sour gelding, would snake his neck at Brooke and try to bite her, would back up trying to kick her. He always wanted to be in front so I would lag a hundred yards behind, so that her horse couldn't attack mine and I wouldn't have to hear her voice.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Well said @Avna!:clap::clap:

Especially the “hate her guts” part:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Another time with the afore mentioned John. 

We were out Hunting, it was the Meet after the Hunt Ball so there were a lot of people out mounted and enough hangovers to have a black cloud over the whole hunt. 

A group of us, including John, ended up at the top of a steep hill. The cattle that normally grazed there had made ring paths to travers this hill. 

We stood around for a while and saw Hounds pick up a scent and start to follow. We had to go back down this hill. One of the men turned to John and said, " I have no doubt you want to go down this hill faster than us John so you go in front." 

With that he took off straight down the side. Had that little mare tripped she would have been rolling for days. We all just sat there, mouths agape at his madness! 

We all gingerly walked down the hill following the cattle paths. not because we were afraid to go faster but to try and save any jolting on our brains!


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

My riding time is short enough without wasting it in the company of uncongenial riders. 

People rarely want to learn -- really learn -- how to help their animals be better citizens. They want the problem to go away, not to understand it in order to solve it. Those that do want to learn, rarely need much help from me!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

I gotta say, I cannot abide a non-stop chatterbox on a trail ride. 



carry on.


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## Woodhaven (Jan 21, 2014)

Tinyliny I had to smile to myself over chatterboxes on the trail. At one time my sister had an ex race horse, standardbred and he had a lot of little problems that she was working on. As we would ride along the trail, me in front, I could hear a constant conversation going on behind me. Sis and horse were working on him becoming a nice trail horse and it involved quite a bit of chatter between them.

Personally I don't want to ride with anyone I can't trust anymore, just too old to be bothered with that type of person. Much, much better to ride by myself and have a ride that my horse and I can enjoy.

One time Sis and I went on a ride with a few others, Sis's horse was new to this and a little excited. While we were riding she was second in line and just as she bent over to check her girth, the rider in front just cantered off. Lucky Sis is a good rider and managed well, maybe all those conversations paid off, but the rider behind me made a comment that I had to smile at. "I just don't know how someone so intelligent can be so stupid".


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Avna said:


> My riding time is short enough without wasting it in the company of uncongenial riders.
> 
> People rarely want to learn -- really learn -- how to help their animals be better citizens. They want the problem to go away, not to understand it in order to solve it. Those that do want to learn, rarely need much help from me!





tinyliny said:


> I gotta say, I cannot abide a non-stop chatterbox on a trail ride.





Woodhaven said:


> Tinyliny I had to smile to myself over chatterboxes on the trail. At one time my sister had an ex race horse, standardbred and he had a lot of little problems that she was working on. As we would ride along the trail, me in front, I could hear a constant conversation going on behind me. Sis and horse were working on him becoming a nice trail horse and it involved quite a bit of chatter between them.
> 
> Personally I don't want to ride with anyone I can't trust anymore, just too old to be bothered with that type of person. Much, much better to ride by myself and have a ride that my horse and I can enjoy.
> 
> One time Sis and I went on a ride with a few others, Sis's horse was new to this and a little excited. While we were riding she was second in line and just as she bent over to check her girth, the rider in front just cantered off. Lucky Sis is a good rider and managed well, maybe all those conversations paid off, but the rider behind me made a comment that I had to smile at. "I just don't know how someone so intelligent can be so stupid".


Avna, I SO get what you're saying. I'm always dumbstruck when people (usually the vets) tell me how they wish more folks would insist on well behaved horses. Life is too short to deal with jerks, 2 footed OR 4 footed. Find out what you're doing or not doing that is causing or allowing the misbehavior and FIX IT fa' crine outloud! 

I think I've told you the story of the gal I used to ride with that if I wanted to groom before the ride, I was holding them up, if I didn't I was a slob. If I showed up an hour early so I could groom in peace (yes I actually DO enjoy it) then she'd find out and show up early and complain non-stop. If I rode in the front of the ride I was being controlling, if I rode drag, I was antisocial. I never knew what riding in the middle was like, I just couldn't handle all the chatter. 

So, yes, Tiny, I can relate about the chatter stuff. Can't handle it. Listen to the birds, the bees, the deer and everything else out on the trail. We don't need to yap non-stop. 

Woodhaven, the kind of "chatter" your sis did with her horse wouldn't have bothered me a bit. That kind of thing builds a bond and gives both a boost in their confidence. I tend to talk to my horses a lot too, especially the green ones. The difference there is, it's not usually loud with braying laughter that humans do. UGH. 

I'm also with you on the trust thing. If I can't trust a horse or a human, I don't need to go anywhere with either one. And the smarter they are, the dumber they act, again both 2 & 4 footed. I used to refer to some of the deputies I worked with as having one year of experience 30 times.


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## carshon (Apr 7, 2015)

I love this thread! In the last year I have become reacquainted with a friend from years ago. She got back into horses after many years horseless. She had horses again for a few years before we struck up a friendship again. She invited herself to ride with my daughter and I and chatted non-stop, had equipment or horse issues and was oblivious to the glares my daughter gave her. Trotting up after letting her horse lag way behind, talking non-stop. After a few rides my daughter actually said please don't invite the crazy woman - I can't stand to hear her yap for 2 hours straight! But I appreciated having a riding partner for when my daughter went back to college. So we rode together most of last fall and after a few rides I quit trying to watch over her or hold my horse back - I just rode my horse and let her fall as far behind as she wanted and let her chat to herself. Thankfully my mare really walks out so most of the chatter was out of ear shot. I would just nod my head every now and then and it made her happy and she continued to chatter on. She means well but is totally oblivious to social cues, her reins always come off, she had her bridle on backward once, she gets off constantly to retighten her saddle, she can't get her gaited horse to gait, she can't get her horse to trot she loses her sun glasses. It's something every ride.

My daughter and husband flat out refuse to ride with her - as when we three ride together it is mostly silent and we let our horses walk at their own pace and just enjoy being out.


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## redbadger (Nov 20, 2017)

Thank you everyone for the advice! (and sorry for the late response). Egrogan, I really like your thought about advising her (if we ride together again) that I'm working on reminding Jasper (or Toby) to be a Good Equine Citizen, so I'll be keeping him slow, or backing or circling on the trail. 



I don't necessarily mind talkative people myself (I talk to Toby or Jasper a lot, in part to calm myself if I feel them getting antsy). But, yes, it really does come down to not trusting her to be safe and make sure Lavinia is behaving. Having her lead is not a great idea, because from her POV, if Lavinia *wants* to trot/canter/run, well, she ought to let Lavi run, not thinking about what other people might want, or if it's actually safe to do so. (like running through the field, where no one's actually walked it beforehand.) I might be considered over-cautious, but I have me, my horse, plus anyone else behind me, and their horses, to worry about (if I'm leading). 



I think Toby's owner (and his GF) has decided they don't want to ride with her, either. (I don't blame him.) 



(in exciting news, though, Jasper got his shoes replaced yesterday, so I can ride him again! Hooray!)


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Love these posts! All the reasons I prefer to ride alone.

Happy Trails!!!!


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## kiwigirl (Sep 30, 2009)

I rode in a group ride many years ago. I was riding Phoenix who was very young and green and this was to be her debut in riding in company. The ride was taking place on the neighboring farm, close to my home otherwise I would not have gone. I deliberately kept to the back of the large group (close to 70 riders) but I got stuck with this bloody woman - she was a lovely woman bubbly and cheerful.


BUT.......she was the worst horse rider I have ever seen! Her horse shambled and meandered along, weaving across tracks doing what ever she wanted, blissfully unconcerned about her passenger.


Phoenix had a lovely big walk and we would get a bit ahead of her and this horse seeing that she was being left behind would then charge up behind us and ram into Phoenix backside. This became her thing, horse dawdling along, get left behind, charge up and run up Phoenix bum. It did not take long for Phoenix to become upset by this and begin to get spooky - she was not enjoying being run into by this other horse! 



After this had happened a few times I asked the woman very nicely if she would please stop her horse from running into mine - the woman laughed.


"She always does that hahaha!"


Fortunately I knew the farm I was on very well, I ducked off the main track and went home. I have never ridden with a group of people since and it has been years since I have ridden with anyone at all - outside of stock work with the neighbor on his horses. It's not worth the hassle as far as I can see.


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## redbadger (Nov 20, 2017)

This woman used to (still does?) do the same thing. She used to lease a horse named Nugget, a lovely round sofa of a quarter horse whose only possible vice is that he is slow as molasses. But riding at the back, Nugs tends to lag behind. So she'd have him trot to catch up (regardless of whether it was safe or not). I think she ends up doing it with Lavinia as well. 

My trainer has suggested the only way she'll learn a lesson is by getting hurt, which is probably true. She'll either fall off, or the horse will trip, or she'll set off another horse and get bucked off. Obviously, you never want anyone to get hurt, but if they're going to be foolish and bring it on themselves...


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

redbadger said:


> This woman used to (still does?) do the same thing. She used to lease a horse named Nugget, a lovely round sofa of a quarter horse whose only possible vice is that he is slow as molasses. But riding at the back, Nugs tends to lag behind. So she'd have him trot to catch up (regardless of whether it was safe or not). I think she ends up doing it with Lavinia as well.
> 
> My trainer has suggested the only way she'll learn a lesson is by getting hurt, which is probably true. She'll either fall off, or the horse will trip, or she'll set off another horse and get bucked off. Obviously, you never want anyone to get hurt, but if they're going to be foolish and bring it on themselves...


She'd be unusual if she learned from getting hurt while being irresponsible. She'd probably just quit riding. The majority of people who have nice horses who continually misbehave (as opposed to green or rank horses they are training) don't need to "wake up and smell the coffee", they need to completely change their attitude, their attention span, their skill set, their ability to respond to their horse appropriately, the whole enchilada. It isn't a simple fix, though it may seem so. In my experience anyway.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Avna said:


> She'd be unusual if she learned from getting hurt while being irresponsible. She'd probably just quit riding.


Was there a downside to that? :icon_rolleyes::wink:


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## Avna (Jul 11, 2015)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Was there a downside to that? :icon_rolleyes::wink:


Um ...


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## redbadger (Nov 20, 2017)

Avna said:


> She'd be unusual if she learned from getting hurt while being irresponsible. She'd probably just quit riding. The majority of people who have nice horses who continually misbehave (as opposed to green or rank horses they are training) don't need to "wake up and smell the coffee", they need to completely change their attitude, their attention span, their skill set, their ability to respond to their horse appropriately, the whole enchilada. It isn't a simple fix, though it may seem so. In my experience anyway.



That is a good point. She's ridden a few different horses, taken a spill off a couple, still does the same things. Getting hurt probably wouldn't convince her that it's *her* that needs to change, and not the horse or the people around her. (fortunately, she doesn't actually own Lavi, just leases her.) 



With Jasper back in the game, I do have ergrogan's built-in excuse of "my horse and I need to practice good trail manners, so we're going to be doing a lot of backing/stopping/turning/listening, which will be TERRIBLY DULL if you're wanting to trot or canter, and probably drive Lavi nuts."


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## redbadger (Nov 20, 2017)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Was there a downside to that? :icon_rolleyes::wink:



Ideally, I try not to combine my personal and professional lives. [ambulance emoji here]


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

redbadger said:


> Ideally, I try not to combine my personal and professional lives. [ambulance emoji here]


I prefer that my husband not have to try to patch me up too. Another reason to have a good citizen horse AND rider. :rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Some people seem to lack a sense of self preservation. (Not me.....I'm scared of everything.) But I let a girl ride my horse one time and all she wanted to do was canter around and I was amazed at how out of control she was and she didn't even seem to realize it. (She was a neighbor and that only happened ONCE).



If someone is fearless, then maybe out of control is fun!? That's my theory anyway.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

trailhorserider;1970859761
If someone is fearless said:


> No, lol. I was born wearing a “No-Fear” T-shirt and I got more lacings, growing up, than any five kids because of it, lollol
> 
> I have never thought it was cute or cool to see how fast my horse could run or to mindlessly canter them without control. Even when I did something on foot to get myself in trouble with my father, it was with careful thought, borne out of curiosity, lol
> 
> ...


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

walkinthewalk said:


> No, lol. I was born wearing a “No-Fear” T-shirt and I got more lacings, growing up, than any five kids because of it, lollol
> 
> I have never thought it was cute or cool to see how fast my horse could run or to mindlessly canter them without control. Even when I did something on foot to get myself in trouble with my father, it was with careful thought, borne out of curiosity, lol
> 
> ...



Well, it's good to have that theory shot down! As someone who was born cautious, I have a hard time understanding the no-fear crowd. Although I WISH I was that way. It would make life a whole lot more pleasant!


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> Well, it's good to have that theory shot down! As someone who was born cautious, I have a hard time understanding the no-fear crowd. Although I WISH I was that way. It would make life a whole lot more pleasant!


Trust me, you don't want to join the "no fear" crowd. We tend to get hurt, a lot. I always used to tell the guys I worked with that I wasn't smart enough to be afraid. I always just get mad and go straight at it. I've paid that price a few too many times, too. Better to have some caution and not be "**** the torpedoes, full ahead!" all the time. There's a time and place for that too but it isn't EVERY situation, EVERY time.


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## walkinthewalk (Jul 23, 2008)

Amen to what @DreamCatcherArabians said

If I hadn’t jumped my snowmobile like it was the General Lee on Dukes of Hazzard, and if I hadn’t gone after those really rank horses my six foot tall trail riding friends wouldn’t touch, I may not be walking with a cane today and I might still be able to sit a horse for more than 10 minutes

We could probably both tell stories that would curl your toe nails, as the saying goes, lollollol.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

walkinthewalk said:


> Amen to what @DreamCatcherArabians said
> 
> If I hadn’t jumped my snowmobile like it was the General Lee on Dukes of Hazzard, and if I hadn’t gone after those really rank horses my six foot tall trail riding friends wouldn’t touch, I may not be walking with a cane today and I might still be able to sit a horse for more than 10 minutes
> 
> We could probably both tell stories that would curl your toe nails, as the saying goes, lollollol.


Seriously. Trust me, when someone says, "If it will stand long enough for her to get a leg over it, she can ride it.", it's not necessarily a compliment, though I was too stupid to understand that then. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Just because you did, doesn't mean you didn't get thrown, stomped on or busted up in the process.


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