# Just pics of my pregnant mare...getting closer!



## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I do feel like I need to ask since nobody ever got an answer on your other thread.

Has this mare seen the vet yet or are you still just guesstimating that she's _probably_ pregnant and _looks_ healthy?


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## HorseLovinLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Poor girl, she looks so misreable!! Good luck with the foaling. She's gonna have a beautiful baby! I too have a mare i'm waiting on to foal.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Seconding smrob's post.

Still, she doesn't look happy, hope that baby pops soon.


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## Sharpie (May 24, 2009)

Wow she looks big. She was checked for twins, right? I hope she has an easy foaling and a healthy baby.


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## star1998 (Dec 11, 2011)

aw. she doesn't look to happy. hope she gives birth soon!


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## winstonsgrl (Jan 22, 2011)

She is a big girl.  Good luck with the foal!


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

Is she showing any other signs besides her big preggo belly? Guessing at the due date i'd keep close watch...
Do you have a safe place for her to foal,foaling kit etc. best be prepared


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

She still has a little while to go unfortunately. I will be putting up panels down at the barn so she will have an enclosed area to foal in. The only downside to that idea is the barn always gets incredibly yucky and muddy since it is at the bottom of a hill and all the rain runs down and sits there but maybe we can get a ditch in front of the barn, just a small one to divert the water. I'll lay out straw all over and hopefully Chanti will foal in there. She has never ever been kept up in a small space like that so it might just stress her out. Since she is at my parent's house and I live about 15 minutes away it's going to be real hard to keep her in the stall when she's close but I don't plan on missing the birth.
I actually have to pick up some gentle iodine, I am out of that. I plan on being stocked up for anything I might need. I'm expecting a late February baby and I'm guessing a filly  I hope she has spots too!


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## paintluver (Apr 5, 2007)

Aww she looks miserable hopefully baby comes soon. Do you have pictures of Daddy?


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Ummmm-the question still stands-HAS SHE BEEN SEEN BY A VET? or are we guessing?


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## My Beau (Jan 2, 2009)

What did the vet guess as a due date?


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Here's pic of the dad, Sundance. As far as we can guess he's most likely breeding stock Paint and probably has QH blood as well. He's such a sweetheart. I really hope the foal gets his easy going personality. Chanti is great but she only likes certain people.











And another. I just love his head. 









Mares only carry for 11 months and a lot of the time maiden mares go a little late. He covered her end of March/early April so expecting a foal anywhere from mid February-late March. No guessing at this point...she IS pregnant.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

franknbeans said:


> Ummmm-the question still stands-HAS SHE BEEN SEEN BY A VET? or are we guessing?





My Beau said:


> What did the vet guess as a due date?


I think the lack of answer actually answers our questions. :?

Poor mare, I hope nothing goes wrong as I'm sure the vet wouldn't be called _then_ either.


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## Amber and Mac (May 12, 2011)

horsecrazy84 said:


> Mares only carry for 11 months and a lot of the time maiden mares go a little late. He covered her end of March/early April so expecting a foal anywhere from mid February-late March. No guessing at this point...she IS pregnant.


They weren't asking you if she was pregnant, I think it's obvious that she is.. They were asking you if you had a vet out and such to confirm the due date. Personally I'd rather have a confirmed date than a time span of 2 months to guess within.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

The avoidance of the question does answer it. Fingers crossed all goes well, because that's the only thing we can do!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Amber and Mac said:


> They weren't asking you if she was pregnant, I think it's obvious that she is.. They were asking you if you had a vet out and such to confirm the due date. Personally I'd rather have a confirmed date than a time span of 2 months to guess within.


At least SOMEONE can read.:evil: Hoping for the best for this poor mare.

also, OP, since she was bred by a QH-do you have any idea the HYPP status of the stud? I know that MAY be a lot to ask......but I would hate to see the baby suffer........


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Doubt she has any clue as his HYPP status as the stud is a grade horse with no papers...


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

She did say she thought QH X, no?


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

She "thinks" the stud is a QH cross, maybe with some paint. The mare def has at least some Appy so HYPP is a possibility on both parts. HERDA too.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Many more questions than answers here. WAY too many for my peace of mind.:-(


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## Golden Horse (Feb 20, 2010)

Always interesting waiting for a new baby, what do you have in your foaling kit OP?


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## reining girl (Jan 30, 2009)

just ridiculous. another poorly conformed horse added to this world because they just so happened to get a stallion for FREE.


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

ANY prenatal care at all? 
I'm really hoping everything turns out okay....kinda sickening when somebody doesn't care enough to just have a vet look her over...


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Sorry about my lack of breeding knowledge, could someone please explain what HERDA and HYPP are?

Sounds pretty bad for this more.. OP do you have the right equipment and care for her? would hate to here anything happened to her or the foal :S


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

HERDA - HERDA

HYPP - Index


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

*From the UC Davis Veterinary Medicine website:

HERDA*
Hereditary equine regional dermal asthenia (HERDA) is a genetic skin disease predominantly found in the American Quarter Horse. Within the breed, the disease is prevalent in particular lines of cutting horses. 



HERDA is characterized by hyperextensible skin, scarring, and severe lesions along the back of affected horses. Affected foals rarely show symptoms at birth. The condition typically occurs by the age of two, most notably when the horse is first being broke to saddle. There is no cure, and the majority of diagnosed horses are euthanized because they are unable to be ridden and are inappropriate for future breeding. 



HERDA has an autosomal recessive mode of inheritance and affects stallions and mares in equal proportions. Research carried out in Dr. Danika Bannasch's laboratory at the University of California, Davis, has identified the gene and mutation associated with HERDA.


The diagnostic DNA test for HERDA that has been developed allows identification of horses that are affected or that carry the specific mutation. Other skin conditions can mimic the symptoms of HERDA. The DNA test will assist veterinarians to make the correct diagnosis. 



For horse breeders, identification of carriers is critical for the selection of mating pairs. Breedings of carrier horses have a 25% chance of producing an affected foal. Breedings between normal and carrier horses will not produce a HERDA foal although 50% of the foals are expected to be carriers.






*Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis (HYPP)*
Hyperkalemic periodic paralysis (HYPP) is an inherited disease of the muscle which is caused by a genetic defect. In the muscle of affected horses, a point mutation exists in the sodium channel gene and is passed on to offspring. 


Sodium channels are "pores" in the muscle cell membrane which control contraction of the muscle fibers. When the defective sodium channel gene is present, the channel becomes "leaky" and makes the muscle overly excitable and contract involuntarily. The channel becomes "leaky" when potassium levels fluctuate in the blood. This may occur with fasting followed by consumption of a high potassium feed such as alfalfa. 



Hyperkalemia, which is an excessive amount of potassium in the blood, causes the muscles in the horse to contract more readily than normal. This makes the horse susceptible to sporadic episodes of muscle tremors or paralysis.


This genetic defect has been identified in descendents of the American Quarter Horse sire, Impressive. The original genetic defect causing HYPP was a natural mutation that occurred as part of the evolutionary process. The majority of such mutations, which are constantly occurring, are not compatible with survival. However, the genetic mutation causing HYPP produced a functional, yet altered, sodium ion channel. 



This gene mutation is not a product of inbreeding. The gene mutation causing HYPP inadvertently became widespread when breeders sought to produce horses with heavy musculature. To date, confirmed cases of HYPP have been restricted to descendants of this horse.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks NdAppy- sounds horrific 
I think one of the paint stallions was diagnosed with passing on HYPP earlier this year, but they only found out when one of the 5yo's he sired had to be pts because of those sort of symptoms. Thats the only reason they found out. He's been removed from their breeding programme now.


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

This makes me sick, another little horse brought into this world, if momma is NOT even seen by a vet im ASSUMING the baby will not either. And unless you can keep and properly care for this foal (witch yes they cost money!) its whole life you should not have bred it in the first place. I dont care if the stallion was free or not. The reason i say this is because if you can not keep it later in life, who wants a horse that has never seen a vet, dont know what the father was, and may have problems in the future.......MY OPINION


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

One last thing has it ever occured to you that she might be cranky because she is in pain.. Or something a vet could have taken care of


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

My question.. WHY isn't she being seen by a vet? It baffles me =/


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

I'm wondering why so many posts were taken out of this thread? None were mean or snarky, just wondering if the mare had been seen by a vet and if not, why.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Liz, I didn't think there had been any removed from _this_ thread. If they were, I guess I must have missed them in the first place.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

If I'm remembering correctly, there were quite a few taken out. Sure, it might have been the same question over and over.. but I think its good for the OP to see these things. Might learn something.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I don't think any were removed either smrobs.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I know there were quite a few taken out of the older one where she was asking if the mare was preggo.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Yeah that one had a lot taken out of it.


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## Dressage10135 (Feb 11, 2009)

*shrug* I must be losing my mind :lol:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Welcome to the club. Mine ran out on me years ago.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

My post was removed. But that was after someone had beat me to what I was trying to say, so I edited it to "never mind."


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## Mike_User (Oct 24, 2006)

smrobs said:


> Liz, I didn't think there had been any removed from _this_ thread. If they were, I guess I must have missed them in the first place.





bubba13 said:


> My post was removed. But that was after someone had beat me to what I was trying to say, so I edited it to "never mind."


I just looked into it, and it looks like 3 posts were removed from this thread:



> Never mind.





> reining_girl said:
> 
> 
> > just ridiculous. Another poorly conformed horse added to this world because they just so happened to get a stallion for FREE.
> ...





> My favorite was how the question was asked if she has seen a vet and you ignored it like it was never asked


I didn't remove any of them myself, and while the reason bubba13's post was removed is obvious (her edited post was essentially empty), the other two were most likely removed for simply piling on while not contributing anything in the way of substance. When threads accumulate enough posts that effectively say only "yeah, you suck", they are often no longer helpful, educational, or even interesting.

As for this thread, we ask that members not use the Horse Pictures forum (where this thread was started) to provide critique since members start threads in the Horse Pictures forum as opposed to another forum to share their horses without asking for advice or inviting critique. (Let me guess, right now you're outraged at the thought of being asked not to point out the folly of not having a vet out to see a pregnant mare, am I right? If so, hold that thought and read on!) 

However, we make an exception when people or horse's safety is on the line. I don't remember the details of the previous thread discussing this mare's pregnancy, but if it was controversial enough to require that posts be removed, I think it's reasonably foreseeable that a new thread about the same would invite more of the same questions and opinions. For these reasons, I have moved this thread from the Horse Pictures forum to the Horse Breeding forum, as the Horse Pictures forum cannot be used as an end run around hearing things you may not want to hear, and by all accounts should expect to hear (by virtue of the previous thread in this case), when it comes to your horse's safety.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

I want to know how someone guesses breeding stock paint? What makes it breeding stock paint more than simply any other grade chestnut horse?


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

There isn't really any way to label SPB on a solid horse... It's more just someone trying to say their horse is something without knowing for sure one way or the other.


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

hmmm well I didn't ask for any tips or help or even a critique and nope, I don't need any help. I was just posting pics of Chanti as an update because it had been a little while since I've posted pics of any of the horses. And yep, she gets vet care. I had just spent $120 on her back in early April when she had that one weird episode. I am definitely not worried about HERDA or HYPP. I know Impressive is not in Chanti's pedigree and I highly doubt it is in Sundance's too. I call him a solid Paint because of the paint characteristics...more white in the eye, high irregular stockings, chin spot,etc. Most paints also have QH blood. If something does go wrong with the foaling or the foal needs vet care after birth it will get it. I still need a few things in my foaling kit, mainly some iodine to disinfect the umbilical cord.


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## Amber and Mac (May 12, 2011)

horsecrazy84 said:


> hmmm well I didn't ask for any tips or help or even a critique and nope, I don't need any help. I was just posting pics of Chanti as an update because it had been a little while since I've posted pics of any of the horses. And yep, she gets vet care. I had just spent $120 on her back in early April when she had that one weird episode. I am definitely not worried about HERDA or HYPP. I know Impressive is not in Chanti's pedigree and I highly doubt it is in Sundance's too. I call him a solid Paint because of the paint characteristics...more white in the eye, high irregular stockings, chin spot,etc. Most paints also have QH blood. If something does go wrong with the foaling or the foal needs vet care after birth it will get it. I still need a few things in my foaling kit, mainly some iodine to disinfect the umbilical cord.


I just think we were all being the concerned horse lovers we are. Its kind of our instincts when it comes to topics like these. We all just want to make sure when a foal comes into this world it gets proper care and has been seen by a vet. 

Other than that, I hope she gives birth to a healthy and beautiful foal. And is healthy and happy after she has entered this world


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## tanya (Mar 30, 2011)

Good luck on the new baby cant wait to see it


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

Am I the only one who thinks that horse looks young?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

ummm...are you going by the pic of the horse under my name??? Chanti is 6, will be 7 in August.


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

In your first pic of chanti I would guessed she was two just by her narrowness but she looks different in the rest of the
Pics so it's probably the angle if the photo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

OP. People weren't giving you tips or what not. They are saying that for having a pregnant mare she should have seen the vet multiple times since then April. Confirm pregnancy and check for twins. Rhino vaccination 5,7, and 9 months. Then all shots at ten months to help provide antibodies to the foal via the mares colusterum(spelling?). Also, it'd be much more healthier for you if you had an estimated date on when she is going to foal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes, Ladybug, that is exactly what people are trying to say. You summed it up well.



I admit it, I did not know that high irregular stockings = paint. I will have to mention that to my horse, who is not a paint, but has high irregular stockings.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Stockings two inches above the knee is enough to register an ABLE horse in APHA. Though both parents have to be registed with either APHA , AQHA, or the Throughbred(?) Association. I'm not common with the Throughbred Association. Though I do know those are the only three breeds a horse's parents can be to be able to register with APHA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

Definitely what ladybug was saying. Horse people get concerned about all horses generally and are only looking out for your mares best interest OP. Broodmares require a much higher and attentive level of care and prenatal care/preventative medicine (ie vaccines, carefully planned out diet, scans to confirm twins or lack thereof hopefully, etc) Things can go wrong even when everything is done by the book but doing them right will decrease those chances. 

If unregistered and a stock breed, HYPP & Herda are possibilities simply because of the unknown factor. Testing is relatively inexpensive. All of mine are Herda tested because of their lines, it would be really irresponsible of me to breed any of them without doing so. Had I not and had one born that did in fact have it, I don't think I could ever forgive myself. I've seen a colt in training at a friend's that had it, seeing that poor thing's back was awful. (He was sent home and pts) 



Alwaysbehind said:


> I admit it, I did not know that high irregular stockings = paint. I will have to mention that to my horse, who is not a paint, but has high irregular stockings.


Now don't ruin your guy's day AB.

Not a valid theory but I'd bet that line of thinking probably stems from the old AQHA rule on high white, for a very long time they couldn't be registered and were instead reg'd as APHA breeding stock. 
We had one crop out that could have been reg'd AQHA now but not in the 80s when she was foaled because of her high white and white past her eye, darn shame, she was a stunner and my grandfather sold her because she couldn't be reg'd qh. My grandfather (who is 80) won't admit to any with white above knees or hocks being QH because he is still in the mindset of 20, 30, 40 years ago...you should hear him complain about the "paints" in the QH Journal! No changing him at his age :wink:

The other paint traits mentioned aren't exlusive to paints either. I have one with a blue eye (on a solid face) as well as the ermine spots in his socks and he's as QH as it gets.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Think if we were able to double register then a QH with high socks and excessive face white would be able to be in APHA as well. My APHA has high stockings and chin white. The only other white she has is a splotch on her withers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

ladybug that is becuase you mare is carrying the tobiano gene, which has never been nor ever will be in AQHA horses.

There are double registered AQHA/APHA and JC/APHA horses. It's a matter of having the correct parents already registered in the correct registries at this point. there is not "getting a horse in" if it doesn't have the right breeding for double registry.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes, but what you guys are saying disputes her point that irregular high stockings makes the horse a breeding stock paint. With that much white the horse could have gotten regular papers, if it was actually that breed.


MHF, don't worry about my guy. He has been called a paint many times in his life. He does not let it hurt his feelings. I think he actually snickers about it. Even the vets like to put their new ride-alongs on the spot about his breed.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Originally Posted by *horsecrazy84*   
_I'm not asking people now if they think she's pregnant, I just posted newer pics as an update. She's healthy and we don't expect any problems. Lots of horses don't have ANY prenatal care and do just fine on their own. How on earth did horses manage before humans came along??_

_*This is the last post by the OP in November. She never answered questions about vet care then, probably won't now. Sounds like the horse saw the vet in April and not seen one since. Hope all goes well, but I would not waste anymore time asking if the horse has seen a vet, she won't answer and then skirts around the issue*_


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## MangoRoX87 (Oct 19, 2009)

wyominggrandma said:


> Originally Posted by *horsecrazy84*
> _I'm not asking people now if they think she's pregnant, I just posted newer pics as an update. She's healthy and we don't expect any problems. Lots of horses don't have ANY prenatal care and do just fine on their own. How on earth did horses manage before humans came along??_
> 
> _*This is the last post by the OP in November. She never answered questions about vet care then, probably won't now. Sounds like the horse saw the vet in April and not seen one since. Hope all goes well, but I would not waste anymore time asking if the horse has seen a vet, she won't answer and then skirts around the issue*_


She stated about one page back that she has been seen by a vet.


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## LetAGrlShowU (Mar 25, 2009)

MangoRoX87 said:


> She stated about one page back that she has been seen by a vet.


In April for her back. Not for the foal ro since then


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

Stupid phone... next post.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

_I'm not asking people now if they think she's pregnant, I just posted newer pics as an update. She's healthy and we don't expect any problems. Lots of horses don't have ANY prenatal care and do just fine on their own. How on earth did horses manage before humans came along??_

The only problem with that concept is that before humans came along wild horses had acres upon acres to graze on where they could get their nutrients. Also. They didn't breed to have a foal close to January. It was more spring time weather so the foal didn't have to survive the cold winter until older. Now we breed for foals closest to January 1st. WE have to provide their shelter out of the elements to protect the foal. Horses are kept on small acreage so they depend on US for their nutrition. There is things horse can't get on their own now because of us and it is up to their owners to give that to them. Yes, maybe horses didn't get dewormer or vaccinations, but that is what we are here for. We love our mares, and we want to see a healthy foal running around with them, right? So we pay the vet to insure both of those will come. I've seen a horse suffer until put down because of HYPP, its depressing.

I once was in the OPs position. I was young and stupid. I probably would have said "I don't expect any problems". The foal was born premature, though luckily passed over it easily. I have a pregnant mare now, and guess what? She has seen the vet 5 times since I got her in April. Its just something we as horse owners are required to do. Just like feeding and getting the farrier out, grooming and providing shelter. 

I just hope for the mare and foals sake nothing goes wrong here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I would add that in nature, there is a high mortality rate, mares, foals, genetic defects, ect. Not a perfect world, same reason us humans typically have monthly checkups for the majority of a pregnancy, then every two weeks, and then every week for the last month. Lots of factors can go wrong, have gone wrong, and close monitoring during this critical period is essential for the best possible outcome. Even when everything seems to be going good from the outside, we really have no idea what is going on inside. A vet that is specialized in equine care is your best source. What a horse could find naturally in the wilderness for sufficient nutrients will probably not be inside her pasture. 

Although my mom has bred grade mares, they were well put together, and always bred to a well bred registered stallion. Every foal was beautiful, and turned heads in the show ring. It was careful, planned breeding, and not the most inexpensive stallion she could find. They are many well put together stallions out there, you don't really want to be unsure of his gene pool just to save money. 

My oldest sister has a maiden mare that is a little more than 6 months along now, and she is less willing to canter and a slightly cranky. But she is also turning 18 around the time she is due. A vet should check her to see if there is something causing discomfort. She may need a massage 

A vet could check her and give you an approximate due date. Each and every mare is unique, she is a maiden and has no pattern for foaling. Any due date can be way off. I would narrow down the due date to 11 months after being bred (last day she was covered) and add two weeks to either side of that date. Check her frequently when she is getting closer, that is the best anyone can do when playing the baby due date game. LOL
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

MHFoundation Quarters said:


> Definitely what ladybug was saying. Horse people get concerned about all horses generally and are only looking out for your mares best interest OP. Broodmares require a much higher and attentive level of care and prenatal care/preventative medicine (ie vaccines, carefully planned out diet, scans to confirm twins or lack thereof hopefully, etc) Things can go wrong even when everything is done by the book but doing them right will decrease those chances.
> 
> *If unregistered and a stock breed, HYPP & Herda are possibilities simply because of the unknown factor. Testing is relatively inexpensive. All of mine are Herda tested because of their lines, it would be really irresponsible of me to breed any of them without doing so.* Had I not and had one born that did in fact have it, I don't think I could ever forgive myself. I've seen a colt in training at a friend's that had it, seeing that poor thing's back was awful. (He was sent home and pts)
> 
> ...


The OP's attitude toward this even being possibly actually made me snicker. Sorry-but it reminded me of someone who once told me they could tell from across the street, _just by looking,_ whether or not someone was HIV positive. And this was an MD.:shock:

Perhaps the OP also has those "powers".:roll:

Yes, she did answer the vet question, so, as we suspected, the poor mare has not had good prenatal care. Just hoping for a good outcome here.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

Sorry Mangorox, the horse saw the vet back in April for a bad back. In her other posts about this same pregnant mare, she argued with everyone about seeing a vet for the pregnancy. She skirts around the comment, ignores the questions about what the vet says, because this mare has NEVER seen a vet for a PREGNANCY.... I feel so sorry for this horse, hopefully her pregnancy goes well. Course it would be rather comical if this mare is not pregnant, just fat...


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

Again..noooooo, she was seen in April but not for anything at all to do with her back. Where are you guys coming up with this stuff?? She was bred right after that vet appointment. I appreciate everybody's concern but it really isn't necessary. She's much less cranky today...the foal shifted to the other side. lol


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## horsecrazy84 (Mar 20, 2011)

wyominggrandma, I don't need a vet to tell me she's pregnant.I've been around many pregnant critters in my life, dogs,cats,cows, horses,people,etc.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No. but the vet can check for twins. Not checking is just risking your mare's and the possible foal's life, and just asking for trouble.


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

OP, I know it feels like you are being ganged up on, but any kind of pregancy, human or animal, has some risks. It would just be a sensible idea to have the mare checked . Called a Prenatal check up. I dont' think it's outrageously expensive, is it?
Anyway, it might help you if you knew ahead of time that the delivery is expected to be easy or if there are any indications of possible troubles.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

I am with tinyliny, it is a completely natural part of the life cycle. But also very dangerous. Twins almost never make it into the world, and there are many other things that a vet could spot that would cause a huge risk. 

I personally witnessed a mare in labor that almost died from giving birth. Not a happy ending if no one was around to have intervened. It was the shape of the birth canal that made the passage of a foal nearly impossible (didn't find about the problem until after she was foal). Women see OBYN's when they are pregnant, and some women aren't built to give natural birth (they get a scheduled C-section). 

The problem with not having her checked by a vet, is that you are taking a huge risk. Do you know how many mares/foals die in the wild? And I am not talking about being fodder for predators. 

Everyone on here is just looking out for your mare and foal's health, and a vet is the best guarantee 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cowgirls Boots (Apr 6, 2011)

So if you were pregnant you wouldn't go see your doctor and have sonograms done? "oh we'll I've been around many pregnant critters in my life....."

Guess that makes us all experts on pregnancy. 

Who knew?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

There is such thing as a false pregnancy. I have a horse that is living proof it happens and it is very easy to believe. She was mounted by a gelding, then 11 months later has a huge belly and an udder to show. Vet came and said she was having some hormone issues which created the false pregnancy. My vet will tell you a horse will go as far as a hard cervix, dropped uterus, big belly, and acting like they're in labor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Casey02 said:


> This makes me sick, another little horse brought into this world, if momma is NOT even seen by a vet im ASSUMING the baby will not either. And unless you can keep and properly care for this foal (witch yes they cost money!) its whole life you should not have bred it in the first place. I dont care if the stallion was free or not. The reason i say this is because if you can not keep it later in life, who wants a horse that has never seen a vet, dont know what the father was, and may have problems in the future.......MY OPINION


Yep everyone is entitled to their opinion.....First, the mustang is the strongest horse out there. Wow...they are still alive without a vet. 
Believe it or not, not all people have to have papers....YOU CAN'T RIDE PAPERS  
Martha Josey could be a perfect example of someone who may want a grade horse...One of the hallmarks for her early success was when she met her first grade horse Cebe (see-bee) Reed in 1964 and rode him to win 52 barrel races in a row their first year and seven horse trailers the next. 
As far as may have problems in the future, Anything can go wrong whether it's a horse or a person...no matter what breed...


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

MySissyGirl said:


> Yep everyone is entitled to their opinion.....First, the mustang is the strongest horse out there. Wow...they are still alive without a vet.
> Believe it or not, not all people have to have papers....YOU CAN'T RIDE PAPERS
> Martha Josey could be a perfect example of someone who may want a grade horse...One of the hallmarks for her early success was when she met her first grade horse Cebe (see-bee) Reed in 1964 and rode him to win 52 barrel races in a row their first year and seven horse trailers the next.
> As far as may have problems in the future, Anything can go wrong whether it's a horse or a person...no matter what breed...


 Yeah, we ARE entitled to our opinion, just like you and the OP. THe quote you used says NOTHING about papers. Re-read it. That has not been the focus of this thread at all. And, yes, you are right-anything CAN happen. However, there is a much better chance of that happening without health care, be it person or animal.
Sorry, but I think this is really sad for the poor mare, as well as the foal. THe risk is much higher than it needs to be, and there are issues that may be avoidable if known ahead of time. But-again-I guess the OP has some sort of super human powers that the rest of us do not. She has been around pregnant animals, so I guess she knows it all. I sure hope this goes just like her others.:evil: When she gets pregnant perhaps she will just go out in the back 40 and squat like women on the prairie have done for years too.


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

SunnyDraco said:


> I would add that in nature, there is a high mortality rate, mares, foals, genetic defects, ect. Not a perfect world, same reason us humans typically have monthly checkups for the majority of a pregnancy, then every two weeks, and then every week for the last month.
> 
> And they also offer abortions to all mothers up to 5 1/2 months... Wow, they aren't perfect....so you have the option to terminate them....That's great advice....but hey it cuts down on genetic defects!!!!!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

MySissyGirl said:


> SunnyDraco said:
> 
> 
> > I would add that in nature, there is a high mortality rate, mares, foals, genetic defects, ect. Not a perfect world, same reason us humans typically have monthly checkups for the majority of a pregnancy, then every two weeks, and then every week for the last month.
> ...


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I think some are stuck on the no papers/bad conformation issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Ladybug2001 said:


> OP. People weren't giving you tips or what not. They are saying that for having a pregnant mare she should have seen the vet multiple times since then April. Confirm pregnancy and check for twins. Rhino vaccination 5,7, and 9 months. Then all shots at ten months to help provide antibodies to the foal via the mares colusterum(spelling?). Also, it'd be much more healthier for you if you had an estimated date on when she is going to foal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did she say she didn't give her mare shots?


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

MySissyGirl said:


> SunnyDraco said:
> 
> 
> > I would add that in nature, there is a high mortality rate, mares, foals, genetic defects, ect. Not a perfect world, same reason us humans typically have monthly checkups for the majority of a pregnancy, then every two weeks, and then every week for the last month.
> ...


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> MySissyGirl said:
> 
> 
> > [/B]
> ...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

MySissyGirl said:


> franknbeans said:
> 
> 
> > I was just saying that's what they offer you with proper care....that's all.
> ...


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Exactly what Chiilaa said. Abortion isn't offered as an option for "care" unless you specifically go looking for it.


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

franknbeans said:


> Yeah, we ARE entitled to our opinion, just like you and the OP. THe quote you used says NOTHING about papers. Re-read it. That has not been the focus of this thread at all.


Yeah, it does focus on papers. It says, "don't know what the father was," -- Which means, no papers.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

MySissyGirl said:


> franknbeans said:
> 
> 
> > I was just saying that's what they offer you with proper care....that's all.
> ...


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

NdAppy said:


> Exactly what Chiilaa said. Abortion isn't offered as an option for "care" unless you specifically go looking for it.


Really??? When was the last time you went to the OB/GYN for a pregnancy???? It is a fact, they have to offer you the last chance for an abortion....this is standard procedure now.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

MySissyGirl said:


> Really??? When was the last time you went to the OB/GYN for a pregnancy???? It is a fact, they have to offer you the last chance for an abortion....this is standard procedure now.


My daughters are 21 months old, so that is how long ago. Maybe it is different here in Australia. The only time I have heard of an OB offering a termination was if there was a medical reason such as abnormalities or risks to the mother.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Never was offered to me. I never asked either. Wasn't all that terribly long ago for me either. I would seriously be questioning if I wanted to stay with a doctor that routinely offers abortions to pregnant patient's regardless of what the extenuating circumstances are. I highly doubt that it has become "routine" to offer them.


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> MySissyGirl said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but that ISN'T what they 'offer' with proper care. Yes, abortion is available if you request it, but a OB doesn't go "Oh yes, you're pregnant, can I book you in for a termination?" quote]
> ...


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

MySissyGirl said:


> Actually, they didn't say can I book you for termination....they said...I have to let you know that this is your last chance for termination....same thing!


That is not the same thing, however, I will not argue further with you. At the end of the day, it is the human's choice to breed their mare, and as such the human is responsible for ensuring the safety of the mare and the ensuing foal. That is what this thread is about, not about what care humans do or do not receive. Humans can choose to not have care - horses cannot, they have to make do with what we provide.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

On horse pregnancies... Mares are routinely luted (force to chemically abort) when exposed to unwanted stallions to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It's an optionmore horse owners should do instead of the fricking "oh my mare was covered I'll just wait and see if she foals" crap that a lot do.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

MySissyGirl said:


> Did she say she didn't give her mare shots?


The mare hasn't seen a vet for the pregnancy period. She conceived after the vet visit. So that tells me she hasn't had her rhino shots.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Chiilaa said:


> That is not the same thing, however, I will not argue further with you. At the end of the day, it is the human's choice to breed their mare, and as such the human is responsible for ensuring the safety of the mare and the ensuing foal. That is what this thread is about, not about what care humans do or do not receive. Humans can choose to not have care - horses cannot, they have to make do with what we provide.


That's true.


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## Rachel1786 (Nov 14, 2010)

MySissyGirl said:


> Really??? When was the last time you went to the OB/GYN for a pregnancy???? It is a fact, they have to offer you the last chance for an abortion....this is standard procedure now.





MySissyGirl said:


> Chiilaa said:
> 
> 
> > MySissyGirl said:
> ...


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

MySissyGirl said:


> Chiilaa said:
> 
> 
> > MySissyGirl said:
> ...


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Rachel1786 said:


> MySissyGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Chiilaa said:
> ...


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## MySissyGirl (Dec 12, 2011)

Yeah, she said it was some kind of new law.....SORRY....Got way off track!


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

Chiilaa said:


> MySissyGirl said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, but that ISN'T what they 'offer' with proper care. Yes, abortion is available if you request it, but a OB doesn't go "Oh yes, you're pregnant, can I book you in for a termination?"
> ...


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

SunnyDraco said:


> MySissyGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Proper care is your vet letting you know if you need to make changes in their diet, exercise routine, giving vaccines, ect. The mare only saw vet when she had a problem before she was bred. Though pregnancy is completely natural, so are many other things (cancer, disease, illness, tumors, death) and are all about the cycle of life.
> ...


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

No vet visit since before the mare was bred, so unless she has been giving her own shots, no shots for the mare at all, no checks for twins, nothing prenatel care at all.
Guess the OP knows all there is to know.


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## tanya (Mar 30, 2011)

Wow this thread is getting ridiculous a bunch of bickering. I think the OP gets the point.


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## SunnyDraco (Dec 8, 2011)

Sorry franknbeans, all I did was click reply to what MySissyGirl had posted. For some reason whenever she quoted someone, they wasn't a break in between what she quoted and what she added 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Casey02 (Sep 20, 2011)

Mysissygirl------you are getting WAY off track! I was talking about the foal AND OR the mom not properly being cared for and you bring up marthy joseys grade barrel horse?!? Because a horse isnt registered do you think that i think they cant perform or what?! Hey new flash my own horse isnt registered but guess what i no who the parents are and i have rode his dad and met the mom and no what they are like. My horse gets vet care tht is needs no matter what. MY POINT was that i wanted *like many others* on this forum for the mom and baby to get the right medical attenction. A pregnant mare is nothing to mess around with because if things go wrong you can loose her as well.

Mustangs have nothing to do with this. Do you not bring your own horse to the vet because the "mustangs" dont go?! Or whats the deal. I personal love the "mutts" of the horse world but i also like when they are being properly CARED FOR. Cant afford it dont have it

This thread is getting out of hand the point was everyone wanted to know if the mare was getting care. If she said yes then fine everyone would have been happy. But since she is not answering yes HORSE people are going to get nervous, and question what is going on.

Get Back to the point of this thread


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

SunnyDraco said:


> Sorry franknbeans, all I did was click reply to what MySissyGirl had posted. For some reason whenever she quoted someone, they wasn't a break in between what she quoted and what she added
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


understand:wink: just don't want anyone thinking it was me!:shock:


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

I'm going to voice the second that this thread is getting way out of hand. OP, we know you just wanted to show pictures of your pregnant mare, because you are excited. Trust me, we know. Though if you have ever ran around a few of these "Pregnant mare." "Is my mare pregnant?" "[Name]'s foaling thread." You will see, that everyone is concerned for the animal's well being.

Here is a quick point with a small story. I go to a votech center for horse production. One of my class mates came in all ****y the other day, and I asked what was wrong. Her neighbors had called the police for her horses being too skinny. I asked how skinny they were, and she said their spine and hips could be seen. Personally, I felt the neighbor did right. If you can't properly care for a horse, don't own one. 

That, is what everyone here on the Horse Forum is trying to get at. Also, you have to keep in mind, that the horse economy in the United States is very low. It is hard to sell a good registered horse, let alone a grade horse. 

No, I'm not saying grade horses are useless. I've owned 5 horses in my life. One was registered. The four others? Mutts. I only knew one of the horses parents. It was my little colt I got out of my mare, who was bred to a registered stallion. Why did I breed? Same reasons you did more then likely. I wanted a baby to care for and raise. Thought I loved my mares personality and wanted to pass that along. What did I get? A very high strung little colt, who terrified anyone new he met. I swore up and down before then that I wouldn't get rid of him. I wasn't gonna throw out another grade horse into the world. I ended up selling him because he was to much for me to handle. Moral of the story? You might be in for more then you bargined for.

I have to ask. What are you feeding your mare?

Also, did the vet know you were going to be breeding her? I know my vet, with the pregnant mare I have now, before we even fully 100% confirmed my mares pregnancy was willing to give her her rhino vaccinations "just incase". I did all I could to confirm this mare's pregnancy. 

Difference between you and I as only one thing. I bought my mare already in foal. I did not make the decision to breed her. 

OP, I really suggest looking into having your vet scan her. It would do you and her good. Yes, yes, we know horses survived in the wild on their own. Though not without cost. If she has twins, you wouldn't want her to carry to term. You will more than likely lose mare and foals.

There is no playing around in the world of horses. Things are serious. With all the genetic defects and complications that result in horse breeding, I don't know why anyone would go without vet care.

Another fact with the grade horse buisness. The grade mare I own right now stopped off her food. I waited a day before calling to get the vet out, because I didn't think it was serious. I got a bunch of yelling from the horse forum. I at first didn't take the critizism, though I was gonna get the vet anyway. Though I've learned a lot on this forum, and that is what it is all about. Learning how to take better care of your horse.

If I wouldn't have called the vet, what might have happened? You just never know.

OP, I think we here are trying to save you a lot of heart ache. You are saying you don't see anything happening at birth. Well what if it did? You wouldn't be expecting it. Walk out one morning to a dead mare? Dead foal? All because you are looking ahead for the best. Someone once on here said, "Expect the worst, hope for the best." That is truely what it should be in the horse buisness. If I would have said "Eh, my mare just doesn't want to eat,". Then she ended up colicking, rolling, and twisiting a gut? Well then I would have had to put down the mare I've had for 11 years. You just never know.

You have your opinion, we all have our own. If you truely don't want to call the vet out. Then be expecting the worst and be ready for it. Read a dozen and one books about foaling, mare care, foal care. So then, you can feed your mare properly during the right times. Not over feeding or under feeding. So if you mare has complications during the birth (and you see it and obviously don't want to call the vet) you may be able to help. Then, if and when the foal ever makes it to this earth, you will know how to take care of it.

Being around a bunch of pregnant critters doesn't help you. I've been around two pregnant women. Four pregnant dogs. Two pregnant cats. Now, two pregnant horses. The only animal I've ever "watched' /"helped" give birth was my most recent cat. How is this gonna help me if my mare has complications? It won't. 

Plain and simple. Everyone with critisizm has given their two cents worth. Anyone who wants to focus on the OP's mare should. I believe all of us who have given the rant speech about breeding irresponsibly and not providing proper prenatal care should hush. Here soon one of the Administrators is gonna come in and delete some posts. We got way off topic here. I don't think by now the OP will get a vet out, or even consider one.

(Done with my book.. ****.)


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Warning, off-topic rant!

Threads like this always bring me down. Because they always turn into "grade horses are useless" threads. 

I was in a similar situation- not by design, but because I bought a mare for trail riding and she turned out to be pregnant. The sire was a QH. The mare a Foxtrotter. Still, I lovingly hoped for the best and had the vet out to confirm the pregnancy, asked about shots (my vet only felt she needed the 4-way for some reason). And basically I went into it with high hopes. I got three books on broodmares/foaling and read everything I could get my hands on. I was prepared!

Well, my foal was born with a deformed cannon bone. So now I have not only a grade horse, but a deformed grade horse. It really makes me feel like **** when everyone knocks grade horses and talks like they are garbage. Life isn't perfect. Sometimes it downright sucks. Sometimes even with the best of care, love, vets, nutrition, etc. crap happens and we end up with a less-than-perfect horse. 

So I dunno. It's a sore spot for me I guess because I am one of those people with a less-than-perfect horse and the world is so tough that I know no-one but me would give him the time of day. 

So can we just quite hating on grade horses? I feel like I am one of the few people out there that would even own a grade horse. Like they are the scum of the earth or something. Lowly, lowly grade horses who should never even be born.


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## Ladybug2001 (Mar 15, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> Warning, off-topic rant!
> 
> Threads like this always bring me down. Because they always turn into "grade horses are useless" threads.
> 
> ...


No one was hating on grade horses. Its just not smart to breed grade horses in this economy is the point. I have a grade horse, I love her to death. I'm sure many people started out their first horse with a grade horse. There are some amazing horses out there that don't have papers. That wasn't the point at all.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I, personally, have never said grades are garbage. If I am looking to do something specific (discipline wise) I go looking for certain bloodlines. Does that mean I don't like grades? Hell NO. My first and favorite horse is a grade mare. I own grade ponies, and I have papered horses.


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## bubba13 (Jan 6, 2007)

Not just grade horses, but grade horses of questionable conformation, lineage, and unknown genetic disease status. I have nothing against grade horses--on the ground. I currently own two and like them plenty. Good horses, quality, probably bred for a purpose (and both almost certainly once registered with papers MIA, but that's another story). Nothing wrong with purposefully breeding quality, _planned_ grade horses, either. But that's clearly not the case here.


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## tanya (Mar 30, 2011)

We have three horses and none are papered me personally dont want a papered animal. I would much rather give an animal a loving home papers mean squat to me. Our mustang is from a BLM mare, the paint is a rescue, and Charlie well his mom was pregnant when we got her. All of our animals are loved, well fed, have shelter, and are in a lifetime loving home. Our dog is a purebred and I never bothered to get his papers they mean nothing I dont breed him so I dont need them.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

This really has nothing to do with being papered or unpapered. It has everything to do with breeding horses that are unproven and breeding "just because".......whether it be because the stallion got in with the mare accidentally, or the owner wants to "clone" their pwetty poney.......whatever.

I have 2 grades, and certainly NOONE is bashing them just for that. What we are saying is that breeding should not be taken lightly, nor should it be done without great consideration about the future of the foal.


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## wyominggrandma (Nov 4, 2009)

I could care less that this is a grade foal. Breeders of purebreds sometimes should not breed either. But that is not the reason for this thread. The reason so many are not making the OP happy is because she took a grade mare, not knowing the genetic makeup of her, a grade stallion, again, not knowing the genetic makeup, bred them because she could and now wants everyone to be so excited about the upcoming foal. Plus, she has given the mare no prenatal vet care, by her own statements because wild horses have been having babies for years and she has seen lots of pregnant "things"......
The worst kind of reason for breeding and the worst kind of vet care, NONE.
Talk about a diaster waiting to happen.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Exactly. It's not an issues of breeding in general. It's an issue of breeding without knowing if the horses carry a genetic disease and not caring to find out before breeding, along with the lack of vet care.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

^^ Yup! Lack of CARE and CARING. Pretty much sums it up.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

this topic is alittle nuts. instead of pointing out flaws with the op since i think she understands you are all pretty angry/annoyed the horse hasnt been seen by a vet, how about you start a new thread about what proper prenatal care is.

she never asked for opinions she was just showing everyone pictures. not saying i agree with the whole doctor issue here but after 12 pages of bickering i think she gets the point.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

Unfortunately kait, she doesn't. Which is the reason people get frustrated and continue to rant. 

The OP is the very _definition_ of a neglectful, crappy, backyard breeder, and _responsible_ horse people find that reprehensible.


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

that might be true but the op hasnt been on here since i think page 7 or earlier forget the page. no matter what ppl say on here it wont change anything. the best thing you can do is cross your fingers and hope.

and to keep this from happening again start a new thread with what people consider proper prenatal care for future backyard breeders or whoever to look and see if they are on the right track.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

I agree that it's futile to continue to rant, but people will do that when angry and frustrated.

I don't think putting a sticky up about prenatal care will help, especially if someone is bound and determined not to spend money, since they think they know better than experienced, established breeders.


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## Druydess (Jan 25, 2008)

kait18 said:


> that might be true but the op hasnt been on here since i think page 7 or earlier forget the page. no matter what ppl say on here it wont change anything. the best thing you can do is cross your fingers and hope.
> 
> and to keep this from happening again start a new thread with what people consider proper prenatal care for future backyard breeders or whoever to look and see if they are on the right track.


Great idea Kait. Sounds like a positive, proactive direction to pursue.. I'd be interested in some good prenatal/foaling info as well, and I'm sure many others, pro and beginner alike, could benefit from it. :wink:


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

Speed Racer said:


> I agree that it's futile to continue to rant, but people will do that when angry and frustrated.
> 
> I don't think putting a sticky up about prenatal care will help, especially if someone is bound and determined not to spend money, since they think they know better than experienced, established breeders.


 
very true sr people are a very determined race if i must say so 

it wouldnt hurt to sticky a thread like that. maybe i will try to start it and see if people will put there info there


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

At this point, this thread is going in circles. I hope the OP gets proper care for her mare and that the mare has a safe foaling. With that, closing this one.


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