# Front Leg swollen vets have no idea Help please!



## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

Subbing out of curiosity.


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## Classicallydressage (Feb 5, 2012)

I have seen torn ligaments before and they are much worse than what you have here. I think he needs to walk out more. Any time a horse is stocked up at my boarding facility I always have the owner lunge the horse at just the walk and trot. He needs to be walked every day. I would also take a cold hose to his leg every night for 20 min. And it must be at night because he will be in his stall for a long time till morning. Usually they will be most swollen in the morning. Just like if you get a injury you don't want to rest the injury because it will never get better. If he has poor circulation he needs to be moving more. Turn him out for a bit every day so he can move on it freely. He wont go running around because it hurts. I hope the vets can diagnose the problem and I hope he gets better soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

Well there is nowhere for him to go to turn out so on the weekends i turn him out in the outdoor arena for a couple hours if its nice out. Also at night i let him go in the indoor arena but i stopped doing that cause he just runs around like a crazy horse. The vet still says to keep working him and not to worry about it unless he is lame which he isn't. i also don't have a way to cold hose which is why i bought the ice boot.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

I don't know if it's just a coincidence... but in the pictures it looks like the white part of the leg is the bit that is stocking up... To me this would indicate that there is a fungal thing going on on the white skin, or he has developed photosensitivity or food allergies.
Another thing you might investigate, because of his age, would be the onset of cushings. 

Good luck!


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## Classicallydressage (Feb 5, 2012)

There would be irritation to the skin if it was fungal or if he had allergies. Cushing results in weight gain depression and hemorrhage. If he goes running around it is not too serious. If he hasn't had any part of his body become swollen then it isn't an allergy. Usually allergies will cause hives. If you can't turn him out walk him down the aisle way or anywhere outside. And an ice boot works just as well as cold water. If all your vets recommend giving it nurturing and time I would listen I'm positive he will pull out of it soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ponytales1976 (Feb 8, 2012)

It looks like a "windpuff", collections of fluid in the fetlock area. Sometimes it never goes away, they usually happen after a horse has had an injury, or horses who have some arthritic changes. It will definately be worse if he is just standing in the stall, the more he moves the better it will be for him.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> Well there is nowhere for him to go to turn out so on the weekends i turn him out in the outdoor arena for a couple hours if its nice out. Also at night i let him go in the indoor arena but i stopped doing that cause he just runs around like a crazy horse. The vet still says to keep working him and not to worry about it unless he is lame which he isn't. i also don't have a way to cold hose which is why i bought the ice boot.


What a life. Living in a stall all the time. My legs would be stocked up too. :-|


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm sorry my horse can't have the amazing life your horse has! What would you suggest me take him back to the barns that was beating him starving him and letting horses drop dead????? It is NOT


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

I think not working him is making it worse. It is hard on a horse to stand around all day in a stall and they swell up. I would expect you to be at least riding at a walk a half hour to an hour with some light trotting and get him back in shape and working.


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

oh excuse me i'm sorry my horse doesn't have the amazing life your horse precious horses have. Its not my choice THERE IS NO WHERE TO TURN HIM OUT! Would you have rather me kept him at the barns that were beating him, not feeding him, not cleaning his stall, and letting horses drop dead and not telling the owners?????? Oh i will take him back the barn that burned down twice just so he can go to turn out....I WOULD DIE TO HAVE A PLACE THAT MY HORSE COULD GO OUTSIDE! I don't have $500 a month to spend on board or my horse would be there in a heartbeat nor can i drive an hour eachway to take him there. I think i take pretty **** good care of my horse! He gets out of his stall twice a day... Yeah i go on my lunch break feed him lunch and get him out of his stall. Than i go after work and either walk him, take him out to graze if there is still light, let him go in the arena, or walk him around... The weekends he gets out of his stall 3 times a day! I really hate people like you, feel horrible he can't go outside!!! What in gods name made you think i didn't WANT him to go out???? For the time being he is at a barn where he is getting fed tons of hay, his stall is getting cleaned he isn't getting hit, and he seems happy!!! Is that not enough?? 

Sorry for the rant, but way to make me feel even worse... I'm trying to do what is best for my guy... Which right now is being where he is at now until i can find another barn or get my own place so he can go in and out as he pleases....

Back to the leg.. it's not windpuffs he has windpuffs on his back legs when i bought him and they don't have heat in them and are squishy... I took some new pictures of what it looks like after I walked him for an hour and iced it...


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Easy killer, chill out. I don't recall anyone making an aggressive attack against you.


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

CLaPorte432 said:


> What a life. Living in a stall all the time. My legs would be stocked up too. :-|


 
She shouldn't write stuff if she has no clue about my situation.... I'm pretty sure he wouldn't complain about his life.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> I'm sorry my horse can't have the amazing life your horse has! What would you suggest me take him back to the barns that was beating him starving him and letting horses drop dead????? It is NOT


But if him standing in a stall all day is the cause, wouldn't you, as a responsible owner, look for another place to keep him where he can be comfortable and healthy? I'm not blaming you for having him there. I'm just saying, it sounds like it's detrimental to his health. I as a horse owner would do everything in my power to find a more suitable place for him. That's all.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

CLaPorte432 said:


> But if him standing in a stall all day is the cause, wouldn't you, as a responsible owner, look for another place to keep him where he can be comfortable and healthy? I'm not blaming you for having him there. I'm just saying, it sounds like it's detrimental to his health. I as a horse owner would do everything in my power to find a more suitable place for him. That's all.


Sweetheart, you need to mind your business and accept that some horse owners are in a situation whereby they cannot have the horse turned out.

I'm sure were you able to send the OP an extra $500 a month out of your expendable income, and buy her a new house closer to the barn she previously mentioned which has more turnout, she would happily take up your offer.

ETA - I also doubt that being in the stall is the source of the problem, it my be aggravating it, but it is not likely the cause.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

It is common for saddlebreds to be in a stall most of the time I am just not sure why you are not riding him and getting him exercise like the the vet told you to.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> She shouldn't write stuff if she has no clue about my situation.... I'm pretty sure he wouldn't complain about his life.


You did not include any of what you just said in your original statement. How are we supposed to know about the situation if you don't explain it? You left out a major part of the story about him being in a stall for 23 hours a day 7 days a week. He could just be stocking up from being in a stall all day. As you have said, you've ruled out A LOT of things. And the vets can't find anything wrong.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Sweetheart, you need to mind your business


WOW are you the pot or the kettle?


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

At the end of the day it is the OPs business whether or not to take any advice from us here. There is no need for an argument to start here. 

If anyone has any problems, I would suggest biting your tongue. Nobody is making personal attacks and nobody is being forced to do any of the advice said.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

churumbeque said:


> WOW are you the pot or the kettle?


 Well I do like tea... But I am not the one putting down the OP for honestly doing the best she can for the horse.

Many, many horses live their lives with even less turnout and exercise than the OPs horse, the last thing she needs to hear is people thinking she is not doing all she can for the horse when he is not 100%. Also, considering that many people on this forum won't call a vet out for horses colicing, drastically dropping weight, etc... I would say she is doing pretty good comparitively.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

Not trying to stir anyone up but wouldn't board be cheaper if the horses were kept out 24/7? I'd suggest you find something like that.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

palominolover said:


> Not trying to stir anyone up but wouldn't board be cheaper if the horses were kept out 24/7? I'd suggest you find something like that.


In many places in the world, there is a lot less land available for turnout. Up in Saskatchewan you guys have nothing but land, but a lot of yards especially near cities simply don't have the room. So it is actually cheaper to keep the horse in a stall as there is a premium on square footage of land. Lots of horses are kept this way and while it is not ideal, if the horse is being exercised and the barn is well ventilated there are not a whole lot of issues. It can aggravate existing issues, however, and prolong healing of new injuries.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

palominolover said:


> Not trying to stir anyone up but wouldn't board be cheaper if the horses were kept out 24/7? I'd suggest you find something like that.


This is a very good suggestion. While I cannot afford a nice barn with a stall, I can afford a very nice place with a run in shed. My TB used to stock up if he stood still for more than a few hours. Now with 24/7 turnout, he's been much better and a happy camper overall. You still get all the same perks in terms of riding amenities, so you lose nothing and your horse gains a more natural living style. 

I do agree your horse needs to be hand walked for about 20 minutes twice a day along with cold hosing until the swelling has worked it's way out. White legs do seem to be more prone to fungal infections. Maybe a nice shampooing with Microtek would help neutralize anything that might be going on. Good luck.


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## palominolover (Apr 28, 2010)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> In many places in the world, there is a lot less land available for turnout. Up in Saskatchewan you guys have nothing but land, but a lot of yards especially near cities simply don't have the room. So it is actually cheaper to keep the horse in a stall as there is a premium on square footage of land. Lots of horses are kept this way and while it is not ideal, if the horse is being exercised and the barn is well ventilated there are not a whole lot of issues. It can aggravate existing issues, however, and prolong healing of new injuries.



Ahh.. Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up =)


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## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

I need to dig up pictures of my old horse. He had a bowed tendon that looked like that once it healed. There was always a knot in there too. If its a bow, stall rest and hand walking are going to be what they prescribe anyways. 

Is there anything that takes the swelling ALL the way down? DMSO? Ice? Bute?


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

My mare had a small tear in the very middle of her deep flexor tendon, her leg looked almost just like your guys.

From what I can tell from the pictures it looks like fluid build up.

I can not believe NO vet seems to be able to find anything wrong with him.
Are you using small animal vets or are you using Equine Specialist?
The tear in my mares tendon was so small we just barely missed it, my vet also told me a lot of vets out there are not trained fully in ultrasound that they often miss things, I am thinking this is the case for you.

I would recommend you turn him out. (I understand you say you can not do this right now but you need to relocate him ASAP)

Many people go wrong by keeping their horses on stall rest these days because in the past it was thought to do the horses good but it actually causes more scare tissue to form.

My mare was out 24/7 for 6 months while she healed. I hosed her leg daily and I kept sports med boots on both of her front legs. She was also on bute for any pain.

This is the best advice I can offer you, take it or leave it.

I also want to add to the previous comment made by someone else about the OP doing the best she can do, although I do not agree I also do not disagree.

I think the OP is doing a lot more then half the horse owners out there today but I also believe NO ONE should own a horse if they do not have the money or the supplies to care for them....like pasture for turn out!!
That is the most important thing to me, horses are not meant to stay locked up 24/7 the little turn out he is getting is nothing compared to what he should be getting. 

I also do not understand why it matters if he runs around and why does he not go out if the weather is not nice.
He is not going to do anything that hurts him and bad weather has never hurt my horses.

I am not trying to bash the OP in any way, I applaud her for doing what she has so far for this horse.

I also want to point out, you (the OP) say that you do not have the money to afford another place for him to stay that would offer him more turn out, how is that?
You seem to have the money to pay for other things like x rays and ultrasounds but not a little extra for board???
Maybe it is cheaper for those things where you are located but I know the 3 I had done on my mare through out the six months could have covered a few months at some of the fancy places around here. I also know, for a fact, there are boarding facilities that offer nothing but pasture board and it is most of the time half the price of full board (stall & pasture).

I have NEVER in my life heard of a facility that did not offer turn out periods for all of the horses boarded. I would not even pay $1 a month for a place that required I keep my horse stalled 24/7 and you as a horse owner should not allow it.

Are you sure you can not afford any where else, have you really looked into it?
Do you not know anyone that has turn out space you could use for a while.
I think these are some things you REALLY need to look into.

I can only speak for myself here but I am willing to bet that everyone on this forum wishes you the best. We only want what is best for your horse.


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

I will not be relocating my horse...

My list of things that has happen to him the last 2 years could go on forever... We just moved from one bad situation to another and are now finally at a barn where he is gaining weight and is HAPPY. Just to give you an idea he was only 900lbs at the last barn and he is now at 1100lbs... There are not many places around here that take care of the horses... He was in a fire and had to move ASAP that day to another barn that was hitting him and he was in a 10x10 stall.... My horse is 16.2 and 21 not a great situation... we tried him in turn out but he got the crap beat out of him and we thought he fractured something i one of his hocks! The barn he is at now he is in a 12x14 stall like i said before i get him out twice a day during the week, and 3 times a day on the weekends. He cannot be out 24/7 because the only places around here just have dry lots and round bales and he gets beat up so he can't eat and he will lose weight... So i guess he could go out 24/7 and save me money and he could go back to being super skinny if it helps his legs.... 

I was working him after his ultrasound i'm pretty sure i said that i was working him till this new swelling came up...He still gets out of his stall the same, twice a day during the week 3 times on the weekends.. At night i turn him out in the arena and let him play and roll.. he is out for about an hour than i ice his leg while i'm grooming him and doing his stretches. The weekends when its nice i walk him in the morning than come back and turn him out in the outdoor arena if its nice for about and hour or longer feed him lunch, and than come back at night turn him out in the arena or walk him for about an hour or more than ice his leg while im grooming him doing his stretches.. The only thing that takes some of the swelling away is ice and even than that knot still stays. 

We don't have any small animal vets that look at horses... He has his regular vet that has been seeing him for the last 7 years that came out originally and did a lameness exam and said he thought it was torn and i needed to get an ultrasound... So i had his "leg/ER" vet come out and do the ultrasound and xray and didn't find anything... Than i had another vet that hasn't seen him much out and he looked at everything and thought it was just poor circulation. I just can't get on him very easy and do "light" work... I try and sometimes he gets way too worked up and i'm afraid he is going to hurt himself even more. I have him on a calming supplement, but it hasn't been doing very much now that he is getting fed and he is gaining weight he feels a lot better! I'm still in the process of trying to get another good leg vet out to look at him but they won't come out to the barn because there is nowhere to lunge him and do a full lameness exam, and i don't have a truck and trailer or any vacation time to take off work and haul him to the vet. For some reason none of these big equine clinics like to work on saturdays! BOO Also he normally stocks up in his back legs and since we have moved he hasn't stocked up 1 day even when i couldn't get him out one day cause i had a doctor appointment he was totally fine.


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

Oh and this place DOES NOT offer turnout period. I think you should come look at the boarding places where i live. like i said before in the 8 years i've owned him we have been to 4 barns now... None of which were taking care of him.. Hell i was paying $390 for him to go to turn out get his tooth knocked out him only gettin 1 flake of hay a day, and than the barn burned down for the second time... I've looked everywhere me and my friend spent an entire summer looking for someplace to move our horses!!! HE CANNOT BE OUT ON A DRY LOT. The only other barn that would have been great for us is full and its the vet i want to look at hims place! My friend got in but she took the last stall!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

Another idea is that there could be a bump on the bone, like his cannon bone got knocked on something, and the swelling is the result of the bone trying to heal. That is kind of what it looks like in the second set of pictures you posted.

I have had that happen at least twice. Once right after I got my mare she kicked the pipe corral (trying to kick the gelding on the other side of the fence) and she got a big knot on her leg. Swelled up for a while too. Eventually the swelling went away and she just had a lump on the bone. Then eventually the lump on the bone diminished and I don't even see it anymore.

Second example I sent my yearling to live in a herd situation to learn manners and it looked like he got kicked in the leg. It was swollen for a good while and he had a knot on the cannon bone. Eventually the swelling went away but the knot on the cannon bone is still there.......6 months later. I'm hoping it will eventually resolve like the mares injury did. 

BUT, if this were the case, you would think that's something the vets would have noticed, right? But who knows. Does he actually have a hard lump on the bone? Could it be an injury to a splint bone even? That would kind of make sense too. They are most commonly injured on the inside of the leg, but horses do have splint bones on the outside of the leg as well.

I don't recall my horses being lame from those injuries either. But it has been a while.

PS. I just went back and looked at all the pictures again. It really doesn't look like where the splint bones are located. But I still think it could be an injury injury to the cannon bone that is trying to heal. Maybe the stall rest is what is causing it to stay stocked up. But I doubt the stocking up is the problem. It is probably a result of a problem, whatever problem that may be. 

Has anyone else had a cannon bone injury similar to what I am talking about? That's kind of what it looks like to me.


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## auTBrider (Feb 6, 2011)

I dont know if this will help BUT... my horse does that occasionally ...this happens after she has eaten poor quality hay such as meadow or sometimes wheaten hay. The way we have fixed this is to give either lucerne or oaten hay instead... or just better quality hay.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Okay. If you don't want to move your horse that is fine, take the good advice with a grain of salt. It is your choice. However if that is contributing to the problem his healing time will be lengthened or he might not heal at all, depending on what is actually wrong with him.


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> I will not be relocating my horse...


then do not bet on him getting better.



sddlehrsgrl said:


> So i guess he could go out 24/7 and save me money and he could go back to being super skinny if it helps his legs....


that would almost be better for him at this point. Him being stalled 24/7 is just as bad as him being low on weight.

I have my horses on 24/7 pasture and I have no problems with weight/injuries. Its as simple as making sure they still get the amount of food they need and putting them out with horses they get along with....not that difficult AT ALL!



sddlehrsgrl said:


> ".....turn him out in the outdoor arena *if its nice* for about and hour or longer......"


I still do not get why it has to be "nice" for him to be turned out.




sddlehrsgrl said:


> I just can't get on him very easy and do "light" work... I try and sometimes *he gets way too worked up* and i'm afraid he is going to hurt himself even more. I have him on a calming supplement, but it hasn't been doing very much now that he is getting fed and he is gaining weight he feels a lot better!


he gets "worked up" because he is locked up in a stall all day!



I have no clue what you are referring to when you say leg vet or whatever. I have never had to go to different kinds of vets to get my horse looked at, I go to one vet they are Equine Specialist meaning they specialize in all things equine...if I was you I would find one of those!!!


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

trailhorserider said:


> Another idea is that there could be a bump on the bone, like his cannon bone got knocked on something, and the swelling is the result of the bone trying to heal. That is kind of what it looks like in the second set of pictures you posted.
> 
> I have had that happen at least twice. Once right after I got my mare she kicked the pipe corral (trying to kick the gelding on the other side of the fence) and she got a big knot on her leg. Swelled up for a while too. Eventually the swelling went away and she just had a lump on the bone. Then eventually the lump on the bone diminished and I don't even see it anymore.
> 
> ...


 
OHHHH that sounds like what it could be!! did their legs get swollen too?? His swelling has come down lot the last week, and he for sure isn't lame! I wonder if since he is actually laying down now in his stall if he could have hit it getting up?? i was thinking splint bone and so was the other vet, but he thought he would be lame... Does the splint bone go down that far?


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## auTBrider (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh and while my mare had this problem she was stabled the whole time even during recovery maybe just maybe look at the quality of hay ....


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> OHHHH that sounds like what it could be!! did their legs get swollen too?? His swelling has come down lot the last week, and he for sure isn't lame! I wonder if since he is actually laying down now in his stall if he could have hit it getting up?? i was thinking splint bone and so was the other vet, but he thought he would be lame... Does the splint bone go down that far?


Here are some links on splint bones. 

Horse Junction - South Africa's no. 1 horse site |

What Popping a Splint Means for Your Horse

Daily Confo Faults « Conformation Critiques

Splints and Fractures of the Splint Bone in Horses

I am not a vet so I don't know if that's what his problem is. It was just an idea that came into my head based on my past experiences. Yes, my mare and yearling had leg swelling also. I don't remember how long it took for the swelling to go down, but it wasn't months and months. More a like a week or two I'm guessing. But they did have a bony knot on their legs. Actually, the yearling still does.


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

sierrams1123 obviously you have no clue. My horse almost died in a fire, than moved to a barn and got beat.... i think he has had enough for a year and he is getting excellent care... Like i said before there are no places around here with PASTURE! a dry lot is not pasture! 





auTBrider said:


> I dont know if this will help BUT... my horse does that occasionally ...this happens after she has eaten poor quality hay such as meadow or sometimes wheaten hay. The way we have fixed this is to give either lucerne or oaten hay instead... or just better quality hay.


 
I don't know if we can get any of that hay around here... Do you think it's just his body trying to adjust from having a super poor diet to actully a good diet? I mean the hay isn't great, but its way better than the thorns and moldy hay the other barn was feeding him well when they did feed him...We did everything slow upping his hay and his grain... He is now getting fed 3 times a day and pretty much has hay 24/7 and is always eating.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I didn't read all posts so this might have been suggested before. My vet always has me wrap all leg issues. I would wrap both front or back, I can't remember where the injury is, with polo wraps over quilts, or fleece or towels even.
If you put material under the polos it is difficult to get them too tight. You need to change every day or other day. Unwrap rub to get circulation in legs walk around and rewrap. This really keeps swelling down and offers support.
Good luck!!


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

Thank you Trailhorserider i showed my vet the new picture and he is thinking what you said! He said to work him tomorrow and see what happens!! So i'm going to try and have my friend make a video to show the vet an pictures of his leg before and after! Do you think i should wrap his legs or use a support boot when i work him? one vet says too the other says not too...


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> sierrams1123 obviously you have no clue.



No, I believe you are the one that has NO CLUE!


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> Thank you Trailhorserider i showed my vet the new picture and he is thinking what you said! He said to work him tomorrow and see what happens!! So i'm going to try and have my friend make a video to show the vet an pictures of his leg before and after! Do you think i should wrap his legs or use a support boot when i work him? one vet says too the other says not too...


I have no idea on the leg wraps. I've never used them myself. 

Best of luck with your horse.


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I don't know if you are asking me about wrapping, But I am answering. I would wrap with just polos while working, and wrap with quilting other times.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

A horse being turned out on a dry lot isn't bad at all, especially if he is getting the feed and nutrients he needs...If you're having to feed him that much a day there could also be an under lying problem that you haven't addressed...Another thought - If he was in a barn fire and beaten, don't you think being back stuck in a stall and barn all day would stress him out? If he had back experiences IN a stall/barn he might not be comfortable having to stand in a stall all day...Would you want to stay in a confusing situation that reminded you of something bad that had happened to you? I wouldn't..It would stress you out and probably be paranoid about it happening again..Just a thought..He doesn't understand that it was another barn and other people...He doesn't have the "worldly" experience that others have.... His leg problem could easily be stress and stocking up because he's in a stall for most of the day...I did send you a PM offering help before posting in this thread, thinking you would like to speak to someone in private but I guess not...

About wrapping your horses legs- if you don't know* exactly *what you're doing with the polos and wrapping the polos *EXACTLY* right, you'll be doing more harm than good and could further hurt and stress your horse's leg..Not a good idea.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Definately with sierra on this one...I do not want an argument but at this point she is very right.


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> In many places in the world, there is a lot less land available for turnout. Up in Saskatchewan you guys have nothing but land, but a lot of yards especially near cities simply don't have the room. So it is actually cheaper to keep the horse in a stall as there is a premium on square footage of land. Lots of horses are kept this way and while it is not ideal, if the horse is being exercised and the barn is well ventilated there are not a whole lot of issues. It can aggravate existing issues, however, and prolong healing of new injuries.


 
Thanks for understanding my situation since others do not. My horse is a lot happier than he ever has been!! There is really nowhere around here that offers turn out... 

Thanks Taffy Clayton i saw you answered my question after i posted! You use towels for your standing wraps? I never thought of that, i have like 20 quilts haha cause i don't like him wearing dirty quilts... People just keep giving them too me cause they dont need them anymore! 


SorrelHorse, DrumRunner, sierrams1123 I don't really know what to say to you guys.... 

Oh DrumRunner i did send you a PM as soon as i saw it... sorry it wasn't fast enough...


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

We do understand your situation. We are telling you the best advice we can give you in this situation and like I said you can take it with a grain of salt or you can try and follow it, it honestly does not effect any of us at all. I believe that sometimes horse owners (definately including myself) get blinded by what they see in their own horse and need the outside person to assist. There have been many times when I myself have had to do this.


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## Violetann (Feb 8, 2012)

I won't even go into my opinion of your horse's living situations.

I have heard (& read) that when it comes to using cold on horses, hosing is better because it stimulates circulation. I will say I'm baffled that your horse is essentially on indoor-lockdown & you say you're unable to cold hose him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clayton Taffy (May 24, 2011)

I have had to wrap a clydesdale leg from hoof to hip. You use anything you can find. Fancy quilts can get expensive and cotton batting is cost prohibitive. I use towels, old bedspreads, any port in a storm.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> SorrelHorse, DrumRunner, sierrams1123 I don't really know what to say to you guys....
> 
> Oh DrumRunner i did send you a PM as soon as i saw it... sorry it wasn't fast enough...


What do you mean? We're really not trying to be mean or anything..just stating our opinion and different viewpoints for you to consider...We truly want to just help you and your horse..

I got it! and sent you one back.. :wink:


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

You know, I am pro-turnout too. I don't even have stalls and a barn. Just pens w/a run-in shed. And if I could have pasture I would. But everyone is so focused on the living situation that they really aren't even thinking anymore about the original question/injury. So I dunno. I guess everyone who is without sin can cast the first stone.......I'm sure EVERY ONE of you, myself included, probably has something that is less than ideal in their horse's lives.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Does he show any indication of soreness or stiffness the day after you work him? Truthfully, from the pictures, it just looks like a badly bowed tendon to me, but if the vets can't see anything.....then that blows that out of the water.

I'm sorry if I ask something that has already been asked but I skipped over some of the thread.

Has he just been seen by 1 vet or have you gotten second and/or third opinions? Ideally, having an equine specialist look at him would be the best bet.

Other than that, I'm not sure what to suggest beyond maybe making his bedding deeper?? We had a horse that broke a bone in his leg about 25 years ago and he was kept on stall rest for almost 3 months (no turnout, virtually no handwalking, nothing)...but the bedding was kept super deep so that he could lay down easily and get up easily and not strain the leg.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

On that note, did I overlook something? I still do not understand why he can't be out in a turnout?


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

trailhorserider said:


> You know, I am pro-turnout too. I don't even have stalls and a barn. Just pens w/a run-in shed. And if I could have pasture I would. But everyone is so focused on the living situation that they really aren't even thinking anymore about the original question/injury. So I dunno. I guess everyone who is without sin can cast the first stone.......I'm sure EVERY ONE of you, myself included, probably has something that is less than ideal in their horse's lives.


I understand this completely..The OP and I have also had a private conversation where things can be discussed in more detail and she's not answering everyone's questions at once...I mean her no disrespect.

SorrelHorse, where she is currently boarding, and cannot change barns just yet, there is no where she is able to turn him out..She's just having to make due right now...Yes, she would like to be able to turn him out but it's just not possible just yet..


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

There have been some really unhelpful posts, IMO. It is not contributing to the discussion to flat out say "your horse will not get better if you do not move him" and otherwise berate the OP for things that are really not in the realm of what can be done for the horse... It's not really something up for discussion (as the OP has made clear) and frankly, there are many, many horses in the US and abroad who simply aren't turned out. It is not ideal, however, it happens. There are a lot of top show barns with access to land that also don't even put up turnout pens, not to mention the barns with so little land they can barely have an outdoor arena.
In my opinion, yes the horse would probably better off if he were able to go outside. However, in a poorly managed bare lot where he is liable to lose weight from stress and less access to food, then we have to pick our battles. Having managed an extremely nervous, low pecking order horse on group turnout before I can sympathize. I have had to stand at a round bale with the horse haltered in -40 weather so he would eat, likewise with the waterer. Luckily we were able to move him into an individual turnout and he was able to gain back the weight loss. Had I had to have moved him to a 24/7 indoor situation at that point, I probably would have instead of letting the poor thing starve to death outside.

Living situation aside, hopefully the new vet will be able to get some new ideas on the table and get this figured out!! Good luck!


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

Violetann said:


> I won't even go into my opinion of your horse's living situations.
> 
> I have heard (& read) that when it comes to using cold on horses, hosing is better because it stimulates circulation. I will say I'm baffled that your horse is essentially on indoor-lockdown & you say you're unable to cold hose him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Oh my vet said the ice pack would work just as well... Uh.. he isn't on indoor lockdown... I'm pretty sure i said i take him out and graze him which is mostly what i do on my lunch break... also there is an outdoor arena that i put him in on the weekends when it's nice... and the reason i say when it's nice is cause i have to sit outside and watch him cause he will jump the fence and run back to his stall. As long as its not raining i put him out... also i can't cold hose him cause uh... there is nowhere to cold hose him... like there is no washbay or anything cause trust me if there was that is what i would be doing. I can ask if i can hook the hose up this weekend and take him outside and hose him... They unhook the hoses in the winter to keep them from freezing.


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## Violetann (Feb 8, 2012)

OP, I'm only telling you what I've gathered when I had to do a bit of "research" on cold-hosing for my mare (b/c I thought, surely, since ice boots were as pricey as they are they must've been better than just a hose, but after asking around and reading on it, hosing was the best solution for my situation). I only mentioned circulation because someone previously pointed out that being in the stall & not moving around so much could be contributing.

I simply meant that it sounded as though your barn was mainly an indoor place, and generally they have was racks (admittedly I don't know anything specific to your barn). If I were in your shoes I would at least give cold-hosing a try, even if you have to hook it up before & after you do so, it could potentially help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> Oh my vet said the ice pack would work just as well



the same vet that can find nothing wrong with your horse, yeah I would def listen to what he has to say. :|


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

Violetann said:


> OP, I'm only telling you what I've gathered when I had to do a bit of "research" on cold-hosing for my mare (b/c I thought, surely, since ice boots were as pricey as they are they must've been better than just a hose, but after asking around and reading on it, hosing was the best solution for my situation). I only mentioned circulation because someone previously pointed out that being in the stall & not moving around so much could be contributing.
> 
> I simply meant that it sounded as though your barn was mainly an indoor place, and generally they have was racks (admittedly I don't know anything specific to your barn). If I were in your shoes I would at least give cold-hosing a try, even if you have to hook it up before & after you do so, it could potentially help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
Oh i will do that then i will have to ask the trainer the next time is see him where the hose is and if there is a place i can hook it up outside and try that! 

sierrams1123 WOW your something else.... he only suggested that cause i didn't have a way to cold hose his leg... normally that is what i would have done.... but since there is no wash bay he suggested ice boots....


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

sierrams1123 said:


> the same vet that can find nothing wrong with your horse, yeah I would def listen to what he has to say. :|


 The same vet that took at least 7 years more education in equine health than both you or I. I would actually listen to him over some random on the internet. It is also worth noting that it is a common thing for veterinarians to suggest (that icing is just as good as cold hosing) except in wound care, where for the rinsing properties, cold hosing is prefered. And actually what is the top end of cryotherapy is the Game Ready system, which is ice and pressure, not cold hosing at all.

As well, even top diagnostic veterinarians can take time to figure out a problem. It is often only with high end diagnostics and multiple examinations that some problems present themselves with clear causes. It is also always helpful to bounce ideas off others, as the OP is doing.


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## Violetann (Feb 8, 2012)

> It is also worth noting that it is a common thing for veterinarians to suggest (that icing is just as good as cold hosing) except in wound care, where for the rinsing properties, cold hosing is prefered. And actually what is the top end of cryotherapy is the Game Ready system, which is ice and pressure, not cold hosing at all.


I imagine pressure has some effect on circulation, versus ice boots which are merely stationary, and could act as an anti-inflammatory.

However, if you're saying she needs to shell out the $ for a Game Ready system (or find one to use) rather than using a hose that's already on the property, by all means, speak your mind!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

More questions. Is the lump fleshy or hard? Are you positive it isn't a wind puff? Wind puff would explain bump + not lame. What does this boy do 'for a living'? High impact stuff or just kicking around? Any abnormal strains in his daily life? 

As far as his turnout situation goes, if he has hurt himself badly enough, stall rest may have been prescribed...then what would the others have to say? If all that is going to happen if he gets turned out is that he gets the crap beaten out of him by the other horses...why take the risk?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Violetann said:


> I imagine pressure has some effect on circulation, versus ice boots which are merely stationary, and could act as an anti-inflammatory.
> 
> However, if you're saying she needs to shell out the $ for a Game Ready system (or find one to use) rather than using a hose that's already on the property, by all means, speak your mind!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just saying that cold hosing is not the end all be all, and icing can work just as well, or better in terms of a game ready. My BO has one with all the attachments so I am totally spoilt  you can also rent them.... but by no means is it a "need" thing, especially if you otherwise have access to ice or cold water.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> sierrams1123 WOW your something else.... he only suggested that cause i didn't have a way to cold hose his leg... normally that is what i would have done.... but since there is no wash bay he suggested ice boots....


Well if it is as easy as hooking up a hose to a spigot who cares if its in a "wash bay" or not.
Where is it that you are icing his legs?


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## Kimmylikestojump (Dec 20, 2011)

While it is easy to hook a hose up to a spigot, not all BO's appreciate you running their water down the drain...let alone the mess you will make.


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## HorseDreams (Dec 17, 2011)

You should ask your vet to show you the proper way to wrap his legs... With circulatory problems in people sometimes it's helpful to wrap the lower leg.... You wrap more snug at the ankle and a little looser in the calf, this helps get stuff flowing. It sounds to me like you have done everything you can with your situation... Try wrapping him and see if it works, if it does great! If not... Then you will know. Definitely ask your vet to show you so you don't have it too tight, but tight enough to make a difference. I hope you get it all figured out, but good job for being responsible and calling your vet and getting him out of the stall when you can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

I agree with anebel, again you lot how shocked me to the core. I think a few necks need to be wound in and you need to get back in your boxes! If there are means and ways, then so be it, but the OP has clearly stated what her situation is and she's doing the best she can. 

OP my horse was bought in June in horrific condition. We attempted turn out, but there wasn't enough out there to keep the weight on. She hasn't been turned out at all. She gets 1h in the walker, and I go down and ride her for an hour every evening.

Where I live, unless its your own land, you don't get turnout Sep/Oct- March time. If the weather is nice, they stay in longer, get out sooner. Doesn't happen often.

I'm thinking this is age related, more than anything. My old man used to get filled legs standing in his box. 20 minutes of good walking in the school and he was fine w/t/c. 

Is there any chance you can get another opinion from a different vet? If a first vet can't find anything, I like a second opinion before I go down the route of more expensive treatments that may not be required.

Another theory... I knew an equine massagist person, and she said keeping cold on all the time isn't great, for humans, horses, dogs. 

I don't know how you'd achieve this unless you cold hosed, then had a bucket with warm water from a kettle or thermoflask.. but she said ten minutes cold, ten minutes hot, ten minutes cold, ten minutes hot was far more productive than just cold? I haven't had to test the theory, and others may not agree but interested to here what people have to say.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

I admit I didn't go through all of the responses but I had a similar problem with a horse I had only his problem was in both hind legs. Same thing, he would stock up, not lame and little to no heat and when coming back in after I rode, the legs would be fine. As someone indicated, it can be just that..stocking up. At the horse's age, wrapping at night would not be a problem..the only thing with continous wrapping is that you end up doing it permanently as the horse's leg ends up relying on the support which is why people try to avoid doing it on younger horses. You would notice that if you miss a night, the next day the stocking up looks even worse.

The other thing to try is a few nights of a sweat wrap. Same priniciple but sometimes it fast forwards the circulation. First, make sure the leg is completely clean..wash if necessary but make sure the leg is completely dry before doing this.

Coat the leg with Nitrafurazone (wear gloves when doing this). You want to put more of the Furazone on the leg than you normally would for coating a simple rub or cut. Next, wrap the leg with a sheet of plastic wrap, but no more than a couple of layers. The idea is just to trap the heat not add support with the plastic wrap. Finally, wrap the leg as usual starting with a pillow or other underlayer type wrap and wrapping over those with a standard standing bandage. Maybe I am old school but I never wrap with a polo bandage unless it is during work...I still prefer the standing bandages for stall/healing/trailering (although I admit I have gone the way of shipping boots) applications. If your horse is picky to his wraps if one leg is wrapped and the other isn't, you may need to wrap the opposite leg as well just to confuse him 

When you take off the wrap the next day you should see a significant decrease in the puffiness. I did this for three days (washing the leg in between each treatement) and the puffiness went away and didn't return. I also, however, made sure to do a quick rub down of the leg with either Vetrolin or some other brace type wash (I still like ye old Absorbine) to help with increasing circulation after riding.


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## tlkng1 (Dec 14, 2011)

The horse I just bought has a "cold" splint, meaning he had some sort of splint injury at some point (off-track TB just turning 7 in a month so probably early race training related) but it has healed and other than a small bump on his leg, he is fine. While not impossible, it is unlikely that this is a splint injury as the splint and cannon eventually fuse together when a horse is about 7 yrs old or so give or take for different breeds.

Her eis a good article on splints and related injuries:

Splints and Fractures of the Splint Bone in Horses


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I can't really help from the horses standpoint but...I'm older and my feet swell when I've been doing a lot of standing. Last thing I would want on my feet is cold. Heat is much preferred. While I can go all day walking and moving standing in one spot kills me. Motion keeps things from puffing up. Lot of the same biology going on there.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

I have a tendancy to think a slightly bowed tendon. I believe the OP said there was some heat? If there is, stall rest, handwalking and wrap is not a bad idea. Of course if the vet has said no to that and suggested working the horse I sure wouldnt know what to think.
So far as all the bickering on here about turn out goes, every owner on this forum has different budgets and different facilities. I cant believe after this OP has explained (perhaps a bit angrily ) that she spends a fair bit of time at the barn giving this horse exercise etc. that people on here dont seem to understand she is doing the best she can under the less than perfect circimstances. Focus on the problem people and try not to get personal. Depending on the injury, turnout is not what you would want.
If you live in a cold climate (as I do) you would understand that cold hosing is out of the question unless you have a heated wash rack. Water freezes in the winter very quickly in cold climates and so do hoses.
Again depending on the injury cold hosing may not be the recemmended thing.
Personally if the vet can find nothing wrong I would wrap both legs with quilts and give the horse some light exercise daily and see how it goes. If it doesnt go down within a week or two I would definately get a second opinion. 
Best of luck with your horse.


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## churumbeque (Dec 20, 2009)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> Well I do like tea... But I am not the one putting down the OP for honestly doing the best she can for the horse.
> 
> Many, many horses live their lives with even less turnout and exercise than the OPs horse, the last thing she needs to hear is people thinking she is not doing all she can for the horse when he is not 100%. Also, considering that many people on this forum won't call a vet out for horses colicing, drastically dropping weight, etc... I would say she is doing pretty good comparitively.


 Yes but in this case the vet is telling her to excercise it and for some reason she thinks a few minutes is enough while it clearly seems the horse needs more.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

churumbeque said:


> Yes but in this case the vet is telling her to excercise it and for some reason she thinks a few minutes is enough while it clearly seems the horse needs more.


 
I think we can all say we know our horses best.

You know the signs of clear discomfort or pain in the horse. 

I would be wanting a second opinion, and wouldn't be following the vet's diagnosis and excercise plan if they had no idea what it is in the first place, I'd be wanting a second opinion before the horse moved full stop.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

"I had another vet that I called to come look, but he wouldn't come out cause there is nowhere to lunge him to do a full lameness exam...."

I'm confused as to why the vet would say that? You have an indoor.
I agree with trying a leg sweat. I like the epsom salt poultice because you don't have to wrap it, though it works better if you do.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Here is what I think, from speaking with the OP in private and here in the thread...The OP and her horse are in a situation she's not happy with. Period. If she could she would do something about it...Everyone has "jumped" in on her telling her what she should do about turnout instead of asking about her situation before you know the whole story..Yes. She would love for her horse to have turnout and have access to other things we all have mentioned. Some of those things, including turnout, are NOT possible right now for the OP. She is at a barn that has NO turnout. She can let him turnout in the arena for a bit, but that's the best she can do for now. When it comes to hosing his leg off, If the BO has taken the hoses and put them away it's for a reason...I think everyone here knows we all would do our best to provide and do the best by our horses. But, you have to remember, none of us are in her position, know the whole situation, and know the OP and her horse...That factors in A LOT that no one has really touched on...She can't snap her fingers or wiggle her nose and a new barn pop up for her to check out and maybe board at..She's looking for a new place and has the word out that she's looking..That's all she can do right now, until then, she's come asking for advice on another problem and instead of getting that, everyone jumps on her telling her what she should do, she's wrong, and a bad owner....Who are we all to judge? Don't tell me you've never done something wrong or you could have done something better in a situation...


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

DrumRunner said:


> Here is what I think, from speaking with the OP in private and here in the thread...The OP and her horse are in a situation she's not happy with. Period. If she could she would do something about it...Everyone has "jumped" in on her telling her what she should do about turnout instead of asking about her situation before you know the whole story..Yes. She would love for her horse to have turnout and have access to other things we all have mentioned. Some of those things, including turnout, are NOT possible right now for the OP. She is at a barn that has NO turnout. She can let him turnout in the arena for a bit, but that's the best she can do for now. When it comes to hosing his leg off, If the BO has taken the hoses and put them away it's for a reason...I think everyone here knows we all would do our best to provide and do the best by our horses. But, you have to remember, none of us are in her position, know the whole situation, and know the OP and her horse...That factors in A LOT that no one has really touched on...She can't snap her fingers or wiggle her nose and a new barn pop up for her to check out and maybe board at..She's looking for a new place and has the word out that she's looking..That's all she can do right now, until then, she's come asking for advice on another problem and instead of getting that, everyone jumps on her telling her what she should do, she's wrong, and a bad owner....Who are we all to judge? Don't tell me you've never done something wrong or you could have done something better in a situation...


 
I like this. A lot. I will like it when I get home. 

You had more patience to write out that paragraph than I would have done.


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## Violetann (Feb 8, 2012)

> When it comes to hosing his leg off, If the BO has taken the hoses and put them away it's for a reason...I think everyone here knows we all would do our best to provide and do the best by our horses. But, you have to remember, none of us are in her position, know the whole situation, and know the OP and her horse...That factors in A LOT that no one has really touched on...She can't snap her fingers or wiggle her nose and a new barn pop up for her to check out and maybe board at..She's looking for a new place and has the word out that she's looking..That's all she can do right now, until then, she's come asking for advice on another problem and instead of getting that, everyone jumps on her telling her what she should do, she's wrong, and a bad owner....Who are we all to judge? Don't tell me you've never done something wrong or you could have done something better in a situation...


I understand she can't move to a new barn. But not being able to hose the horse's leg? To give her credit, she did say she would inquire about it, but that's an extremely minor, fixable issue in this situation.

"Everyone jumps on her telling her what she should do"... Sorry, I was under the impression she *asked* what she should do. It isn't like she said, "here's what's going on, pray for us!" She ASKED for help!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

Violetann said:


> I understand she can't move to a new barn. But not being able to hose the horse's leg? To give her credit, she did say she would inquire about it, but that's an extremely minor, fixable issue in this situation.
> 
> *"Everyone jumps on her telling her what she should do"... Sorry, I was under the impression she asked what she should do. It isn't like she said, "here's what's going on, pray for us!" She ASKED for help!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 
There are ways and means of explaining things and offering suggestions. Some posters on this board have been extremely rude, condescending and narrow minded.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

Exactly, she asked for *HELP about her problem with her horse's leg...* Not to be treated like an idiot by numerous people...Cool your jets..I'm just trying to *help *the girl and stop all of the "You're a bad owner", "You need to find him another place to board", and "You have no idea what you're doing"....What does ANY of that have to do with helping her?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

churumbeque said:


> Yes but in this case the vet is telling her to excercise it and for some reason she thinks a few minutes is enough while it clearly seems the horse needs more.


 And you were at the OPs barn with a stopwatch, when?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

This is what has me worried about this situation. The vets are telling her to do this & that without a diagnosis. Different injuries call for different treatments, some call for stall rest, some controlled hand walking, some controlled exercise & some free turnout. If this were my horse I wouldn't know exactly what to do either. I don't think this is a circulatory problem as it's only on one leg.
I hope she can find a vet that will give her answers.


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## DuffyDuck (Sep 27, 2011)

natisha said:


> This is what has me worried about this situation. The vets are telling her to do this & that without a diagnosis. Different injuries call for different treatments, some call for stall rest, some controlled hand walking, some controlled exercise & some free turnout. If this were my horse I wouldn't know exactly what to do either. I don't think this is a circulatory problem as it's only on one leg.
> I hope she can find a vet that will give her answers.


 
Correct me if I'm wrong.. throwing ideas out here.
The mare is 21... what if she is slighlty more arthritic, or has an old injury on ONE leg, which causes it to fill with liquid?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

natisha said:


> This is what has me worried about this situation. The vets are telling her to do this & that without a diagnosis. Different injuries call for different treatments, some call for stall rest, some controlled hand walking, some controlled exercise & some free turnout. If this were my horse I wouldn't know exactly what to do either. I don't think this is a circulatory problem as it's only on one leg.
> I hope she can find a vet that will give her answers.


Weirder things have happened.. that's why I initially thought it might be something metabolic or related to the feed or bedding.

If the horse is not unsound then it is hard to find a definite cause... One would hope that a palpation and ultrasound would at least be able to pinpoint the affected structure and isolate what exactly needs to be treated, or if it is an internal issue, or due to external stimuli...

I have hauled a horse back and forth from multiple clinics and poured money into diagnostics on a hind end lameness to find a minor imbalance due to a bad shoe job. I spent a couple thousand bucks at (arguably) the top lameness and diagnostic clinic in the area to get told I need to find a new farrier :lol: And THAT took multiple trips! With a mystery lump and no real soundness problems or obvious blips on an ultrasound I think this is going to take some real sleuthing...


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

DuffyDuck said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong.. throwing ideas out here.
> The mare is 21... what if she is slighlty more arthritic, or has an old injury on ONE leg, which causes it to fill with liquid?


You're not wrong to wonder that. I thought of that too but most arthritic conditions have some degree of lameness involved & involve joint/s. That swelling appears to be concentrated to the back of the leg.
Simple x-rays could rule out most arthritic conditions. And, yes, arthritic conditions do better with more movement, as in a "if you don't use it you lose it" kind of way. I wouldn't rule out arthritic changes but the horse is sound so no way to tell for sure without more diagnostics.
I'd sweat the heck out of that leg & hope with the swelling gone I could maybe see a problem area.
I wonder if the frog on that foot looks different from the others?


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

natisha said:


> You're not wrong to wonder that. I thought of that too but most arthritic conditions have some degree of lameness involved & involve joint/s. That swelling appears to be concentrated to the back of the leg.
> Simple x-rays could rule out most arthritic conditions. And, yes, arthritic conditions do better with more movement, as in a "if you don't use it you lose it" kind of way. I wouldn't rule out arthritic changes but the horse is sound so no way to tell for sure without more diagnostics.
> I'd sweat the heck out of that leg & hope with the swelling gone I could maybe see a problem area.
> I wonder if the frog on that foot looks different from the others?


 You know... calcifications DO occur outside the joint.. and it is near the splint bone. Small calcifications might also be prone to chip off and "float" causing inflammation... I wonder if an x-ray of the area isn't a bad idea!


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

**Moderator Note**

Let's keep to the OP's original question and try to help her with suggestions that are within her control. She doesn't have access to turnout at this point, so repeatedly pushing that issue is not helping here folks. Let's try and help with constructive responses that the OP has access to try or look into.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

~*~anebel~*~ said:


> You know... calcifications DO occur outside the joint.. and it is near the splint bone. Small calcifications might also be prone to chip off and "float" causing inflammation... I wonder if an x-ray of the area isn't a bad idea!


That would explain why no tears showed up on an US. Yes, x-rays are in order.
I had a horse who cracked her splint bone horizontally. The whole leg swelled up & she was non weight bearing. Luckily she healed well but that area was always a little enlarged. Horses seem to make their own rules where injuries are concerned.:?


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## Violetann (Feb 8, 2012)

> I wonder if an x-ray of the area isn't a bad idea!


In the original post the OP says she's had x-rays taken.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Uughhh.. really?? Well that stinks.. Maybe there is more calcification now or more chips, if it is a bone thing?


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Violetann said:


> In the original post the OP says she's had x-rays taken.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks, I must have missed that or it was so long ago I forgot.


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## littleredridinghood (Jan 5, 2012)

I didn't read through most posts because it all seemed very hostile and sticky. Anyway, try doing a cold bandage on his leg once a day and see if that helps. I do this when my horse stands in a stall for any length of time longer than 24 hours. I'm not going to harass you about his living situation. It's fine. I have seen much, much worse. You are his owner and know what is best for your horse.


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## littleredridinghood (Jan 5, 2012)

FAQ First Aid Icing


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Just a general rule regarding hot vs cold applications, always exceptions of course.
Hot (new, acute injury) =cold application
Cold (old, chronic)=hot application

Sometimes alternating is called for.


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm curious about the horizontal lines in that stocking that are most noticeable in the first photo. Probably nothing but it stuck out to me. 

He's had x-rays and u/s. Hmmm. Couldn't hurt to try some DMSO and see if it would take the swelling down some and then palpate that leg and see if you could feel any abnormalities.


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## DrumRunner (Jan 26, 2011)

I don't think the OP is coming back to the thread...Just letting you all know.


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## Allison Finch (Oct 21, 2009)

I hope she comes back. Her horse may simply be stocking up and exhibiting some arthritic changes. This is SO common, especially in an older horse.

I have a student whose dressage horse has one ankle that stocks up. It is noticeable after a night in a stall, but goes down when he goes to turnout or is ridden. The horse is not off at any time.

When I travel and am on a plane for a long time, MY ankles "stock up" and look awful. Movement will help this.

The OP does not have turnout and this is not an uncommon problem. People on this forum need to back off on that issue, now. Many high dollar show horses are not allowed any turn out either and are hand walked. There is nothing in that that compromises the horse.

Instead, let's look at the issue of stocking up. I found a great article in the Thoroughbred Times that I think we can all learn from. Let's read, learn and QUIT throwing insults and recriminations towards the OP.





> Sudden inactivity can lead to stocking up
> Posted: Saturday, June 08, 1996
> 
> Sometimes called stagnation edema, it is a harmless condition but may be a symptom of other problemsYou go out to the barn or paddock one morning and find your horses hind legs are enlarged, swollen from hooves to hocks. It is not uncommon for a horses lower legs to swell, especially if the horse has been confined (in a stall or small pen) after a period of activity or strenuous exercise. If you give a horse a hard workout and then put him in an area where he does not have room to move around much, his legs may swell. Some horses legs swell just from inactivity; if you bring them into a stall or pen from a pasture, their legs stock up overnight.
> ...


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## muumi (Oct 17, 2011)

well, that would be a pity if the OP doesn't return, as the good guys are on this thread now, and the advise/ideas are pouring.

I, for one, am finding the latest posts very interesting and informative.

So, I hope the OP comes back!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MHFoundation Quarters (Feb 23, 2011)

I, too, hope the OP returns. 



Allison Finch said:


> I have a student whose dressage horse has one ankle that stocks up. It is noticeable after a night in a stall, but goes down when he goes to turnout or is ridden. The horse is not off at any time.


That's really interesting Allison. I've not had any that only stocked up in one leg, I've seen it in pairs or all around. Is that one leg white or different from the others somehow (arthritic changes, etc)?


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## DraftXDressage (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm curious about the one stocked up leg, and also curious about whether the OP's horse has other white legs, or if this is the only one. 

My mare has three high whites, and when she got into hoary alyssum as a youngster (before I owned her), I am told she stocked up on those three legs, but not on the leg that only has a tiny anklet. That has never made any particular sense to me, since it's an internal issue, rather than a skin issue. I figured the previous owner was just wrong about that, but perhaps not.


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

WOWZA there are some super unnecessary posts on here!

Don't worry OP - I think some people just have to make snide remarks to make themselves feel better.

I am sure that you are doing everything in your power for your pony!! I got to about page 5 of comments and some people were just posting ridiculous things that were ridiculously unhelpful, so I gave up.

I had an idea though - I don't know what the compelete turnout situation is but you mentioned when your horse was turned out he was losing a lot of weight because the other horses were being mean. Is there any way the barn owner could feed him his breakfast in his stall, turn him out, bring him in for lunch, turn him out, and then feed him his dinner and hay when he comes in at night?

Maybe you could try turning him in the arena with a couple of the pasture horses for a little while so they can get aquainted (sp?) and then try turning him out?


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## IquitosARG10 (Aug 27, 2011)

Uh oh - I jsut finished reading and it looks like all the turn out advice has stopped. 

If the OP is still reading I hope you find the answer soon!!


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

sierrams1123 said:


> My mare had a small tear in the very middle of her deep flexor tendon, her leg looked almost just like your guys.
> 
> From what I can tell from the pictures it looks like fluid build up.
> 
> ...


This was my original post to the OP, I offered her sound advice. I am not trying to stir anything up and I never said she was a bad horse owner, I even said that I applauded the OP for doing what she has so far because it is more then what half of the horse owners out there would do. I really wish the best for the OP and her horse, I really want her to find the real problem with her horse but after her replying to my post with this.....



sddlehrsgrl said:


> I will not be relocating my horse.....


 that to me came off as her being okay with his current situation and that she has no plans to change it. Yes, that makes me upset. I understand finally finding a place you like and trust but it is lacking a key thing for him and that is turn out space. I know this thread was started to help the OP figure out what is wrong with her horses leg, like me I think a lot of people feel his lack of turn out/ lack of movement period is one of the key factors to what is the underlining problem. I am sorry for everything you (the OP) have gone through and I am sorry your horse went through the traumatic events he has gone through, I in mow way was trying to he rude to you to start off with. I only made a rude comment after you said I had no clue, which I did not find very nice due to the fact I was trying to help you. I am sorry for anything I have said that has upset or offended you, I will admit at times I come across a little harsh because I honestly care about the horses we beings and your comment about not relocating him really made me feel and think you do not care about his well being. 
Like I said before but will say again, I applaud you for doing what you have thus far.
Ultrasounds and x rays should have turned up anything serious but since they did not I really think you should try and get some one else out to take another look, I know you said you are trying and that's great.
I really hope any of the other comments made by myself or other have not scared you off, we all really just care a little to much some times and come on a little strong.

I really hope you keep us posted on your horse and I hope you stick around so we can all get to know one another.

and fine.[/QUOTE]


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

Ignore -> and fine.[/QUOTE] <- for some reason my kindle would not scroll down and erase it.


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## AlexS (Aug 9, 2010)

I appear to be going totally against the grain here with my thoughts, but if the horse is not lame - then why not just keep an eye on it? 

I am really not sure that I would be spending a good chunk of change on xrays, scans, third opinions etc for a horse that is not lame or showing signs of discomfort. 

To me it looks and sounds like an old bow, I have no idea why that would not have shown up in the scans though - but I personally would just put that down to being one of those puzzling things in life and leave it be while keeping a close watch on it.


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

Thought i would post a quick update... even though i don't want to, but i figured those of you that were really trying to help might want to know. Did more xrays and it looks like it's. The bottom of his splint bone is seperated i guess. I took pictures of the xrays but will have to post them when i get home.


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

sddlehrsgrl said:


> Thought i would post a quick update... even though i don't want to, but i figured those of you that were really trying to help might want to know. Did more xrays and it looks like it's. The bottom of his splint bone is seperated i guess. I took pictures of the xrays but will have to post them when i get home.


 
holly cow!

I am glad the issue was finally found, I can not believe something like that was missed in the other xrays.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I, too, am very glad that you found what was causing the problem. I've never heard of that happening before. Do you know how difficult that will be to get healed?


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

Well it was probably missed in the last xrays cause its a different swelling than when we originally took the last xrays...

The vet said it will heal on its own in time. He still is amazed thar he has been 100% sound through all this.


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## sierrams1123 (Jul 8, 2011)

What do you mean its a different kind of swelling?
So this is the issue in both of his front legs?


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## sddlehrsgrl (Feb 7, 2012)

No we originally took xrays his entire front leg was swollen and had a big knot in his tendon so we did xrays and ultrasound lameness exam so on. Since we did all that the leg swelled in random places over the last couple of months and the swelling i posted pictures of showed up in the middle of Jan after we got all the other swelling under control. When the vet originally came out and looked we all just thought he was stocked up or just poor circulation. So last week the swelling was all gone but one spot over his bone so we decided to do more xrays. Which showed the popped splint bone.


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