# Sold horse now cribbing



## That One Chick (Mar 23, 2012)

I have absolutely no experience selling horses, but that sounds sketchy to me. I wouldn't give their money back if it were me. Did you sign anything requiring so? If not, I don't think you have to. 

Sorry for not really helping, lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waresbear (Jun 18, 2011)

If the horse truly never cribs while he was owned by you, no refund. They have had the horse in their possession for almost 3 months, that is when the cribbing started. Why refund their money for a vice that began at their place?


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

If he never did it while he was with you, but now he's doing it, there is something "off" in the way they are handling things. Is he stalled now to where he is bored? Or kept in a smaller area? Do they have sufficient grazing pasture where they are keeping the horse? Maybe there is an underlying physical issue that happened in their care, did they have a vet assessment?

If they don't want the horse anymore because of the vice, tell them you'll take him back, but no refund because he wasn't a cribber when he left your place.

Maybe they just don't like him and are trying to get an excuse to get their money back to purchase a different horse.


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## mildot (Oct 18, 2011)

szurawik said:


> he never cribbed while I had him or while he was at the trainers. Do I have to take the horse back and refund their money?


No refund. The cribbing started after they had him in their possession.

And even if it did crib while he was yours, I fail to see how that is grounds for any refund.

As a matter of fact, unless there was a written sales contract, the horse is sold as-is. In that case it is incumbent on the buyer to do his due diligence with a vet examination.

It is really true the horse world has more crazy people than most others.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

I returned a horse a few years ago because she cribbed. However, I called the former owner within a few days, not a few months. I was sold the horse as sound, but cribbing is an unsoundness. The deal was that I would have the coggins done and if it were positive or if the horse was unsound, that was a reason for undoing the sale. I should have looked at her teeth but neglected to this one time. I never would have taken the horse if I had seen the condition of her teeth.

IMO, if they called within a week, that is one thing, a few months, then "no".


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

i don't think i've ever heard of cribbing called being "unsound" or being an "unsoundness". interesting.


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## Speed Racer (Oct 21, 2009)

crimsonsky said:


> i don't think i've ever heard of cribbing called being "unsound" or being an "unsoundness". interesting.


It can affect their breathing and teeth depending on the severity, crimson.

OP, a week or two later maybe, but 3 _months_ later? No. The horse could have started cribbing from stress and/or ulcers caused by something the new owners are doing.


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

At many auctions, it has to be stated. Here is an excerpt from an article that I found


> Cribbing and so-called wind-sucking induce occasional attacks of colic from the quantity of air which is developed in the stomach, and both are associated with an irritable condition of the mucous membrane of the digestive organs, which we believe to be a cause of these remarkable acts. In a legal point of view cribbing and wind-sucking would amount to unsoundness if that term is construed strictly, and in some parts of the Continent the habit is recognized as sufficient to constitute a breach of warranty. In any case, a horse addicted to crib-biting or wind-sucking, or both, can hardly be said to be as useful for its intended purpose as an animal which is free from such defects. If there were no other objection to be urged, it would be sufficient to point to the well-known fact that the animal loses flesh and becomes thin.


This is the complete article: Crib-Biting


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## themacpack (Jul 16, 2009)

As he never had this problem in your possession, and it has been three months, I would say it sounds like something in the way they are managing him has created the problem - not your issue, not anything you owe a refund for.


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## mls (Nov 28, 2006)

I am in the camp of - no refund. I agree that it's been too long between the sale and the complaint.

Do you happen to have an e-mail or voice mail from shortly after the sale on how the horse was doing? Good back up if this were to progress to the attorney stage.

Also - a vet check can determine the wear lines on the teeth from cribbing. New or old!


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## crimsonsky (Feb 18, 2011)

interesting. my TB is a cribber which was not disclosed to me when i purchased him. *shrug* it is annoying? sure. but i haven't had any other problems health wise with him because of it so i guess i didn't look at it that way. 

either way - no refund!


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## iridehorses (Oct 22, 2007)

Some people have no problem with it, crimonsky. Personally, the sound drives me crazy and the destruction it causes on the fences is out of the question for me.


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## franknbeans (Jun 7, 2007)

mildot said:


> No refund. The cribbing started after they had him in their possession.
> 
> And even if it did crib while he was yours, I fail to see how that is grounds for any refund.
> 
> ...


Remind me to never buy a horse from you. To not disclose a vice such as cribbing is, at the least, shady. Your last statement, more true than you know, and the horse world also has more than its share of shady people.

As for me-it is an absolute deal breaker. Had one-never will again. THat is one of my first questions when I am looking at a horse for that reason. I do agree, however, that if it TRULY did not do it when you had him it is something they have changed in his life that he is reacting to. I would NOT be inclined to give a refund after this period of time either. Who knows the real reason they have decided they would like a refund. I doubt that is it.


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

I had a cribber years ago but disclosed it to the buyer. I also sent her cribbing collar with her. As long as she wore it, she was fine. My mare was a great riding horse and I loved her, but at the time I needed to get out of horses due to finances (miss her still). Personally I will never buy another cribber however.

As far as waiting 3 months to contact you....I think that your legal standing is good. Had the horse been a cribber when you sold it, the habit would have shown up immediately.


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Cribbing absolutely must be disclosed to the buyer, and if it is not, is reason to void the sales contract. 

The only sale ever voided at the Saratoga yearling sales after the hammer fell was for a horse that was not properly identified as a cribber in the sales catalog. She went back through the sale after being identified as a cribber and sold for considerably less. 

For performance horses, it can definitley be an unsoundness. For all other horses, it is considered a vice. 

I'm with Iridehorses - I won't have one in my barn. 

However, back to the OP's question. If the horse didn't crib while you owned it, and didn't start until 3 months after the sale, you are under no obligation to the buyer. It's likely that a change in the horse's management (more stall time/less turn out) triggered the cribbing.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

My good show gelding was a cribber.

His jowl strap was enough to stop him.

The day I stopped showing I came home, pulled off his blanket and told Sunny to go enjoy being a hores....in the pasture.

He was 10 and had NEVER been lose.

He loved that summer, I put him in at night.

When winter came he missed a few days going outside.

I heard him cribbing but, did not put his jowl strap back on him.

Sunny died of colic at the age of 11.

He was third at the world show the year before.

I still am sick with guilt.


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## equiniphile (Aug 16, 2009)

I have a 25 y/o cribber that has cribbed since we bought him at 3 y/o, and it is awful. The sound drives me nuts. It must not impact his teeth much, because the dentist never asks if he has a cribbing problem, but I hate that my stalls are destroyed because of his vice.


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## DressageDreamer (Feb 29, 2012)

Ripper said:


> I heard him cribbing but, did not put his jowl strap back on him.
> 
> Sunny died of colic at the age of 11.
> 
> ...


Oh Ripper that is so sad! I feel so bad for you.


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## Joe4d (Sep 1, 2011)

you are dealing with state law issues that vary state to state. I can give you the VA answer. Are you a horse professional ? Did you represent yourself as a horse professional ? If the answers to those questions are No, and ur not a dealer or pro trainer, then all horse sales in VA are as is with no warranty unless a written one is added. So unless they have a written guarantee ahead of time then the default ruling would be no refunds.
I got into this over a partially blind appaloosa horse. I advertised it as partially blind. I signed release for buyers to talk to my vet. I gave them a 30 day at my house trial period, they didnt take advantage of. I only sold horse for 500 , back when she woulda been worth several thousand if she wasnt blind. Same thing they wanted their money back cause she ran into things,, Well duh you bought a blind horse. They sent certified letter gettign snotty, I sent them a copy of the original add stating horse was blind, as well as a copy of the above mentioned state law.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

DressageDreamer said:


> Oh Ripper that is so sad! I feel so bad for you.


Thank you....

It has been years.....

I am just ready to get mares again.

The odd thing about Sunny cribbing was he came back from the Quarterrama cribbing.

He was fine when he left for Canada.

He won his halter class......no one knows what happened.

Maybe he was stalled by a cribber????


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## maura (Nov 21, 2009)

Ripper, 

That is terrible, but I think you need to cut yourself some slack. While there is a connection between cribbing and colic, I am doubtful that a turned out retired horse who probably only cribbed briefly when confined did enough damage to cause the colic. 

FWIW, I don't believe horses "learn" to crib from other horses. I think it's much more likely your gelding started to crib at that show from the strees and tension of the show environment and being stalled 24/7. 

Years and years ago, we had a very fancy conformation prospect sent to us for breaking and training. When put up in a stall for half the day, she immediately started to crib out of boredom. This was *huge*; potentially destroying a lot of her value and her show career. We had to hot wire all the surfaces in her stall. I hated it. If she had been mine, I would have turned her out and brought her in to work and turned her back out. But she was supposed a high dollar, hot housed show horse, and cribbing wasn't an option, and neither was all day turn out. 

The hot wire worked. But I still hated it.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2012)

maura said:


> Ripper,
> 
> That is terrible, but I think you need to cut yourself some slack. While there is a connection between cribbing and colic, I am doubtful that a turned out retired horse who probably only cribbed briefly when confined did enough damage to cause the colic.
> 
> ...


Thanks.....

We know he had colic when I put him down.

They did a lot of tests.

I could never have turned him out and showed him.

He was a red roan and faded very easy.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I am wondering if they are mistaking wood chewing with cribbing?


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