# Dear, anti-Slaughter supporters letter



## DIYHorsemanship (Feb 22, 2014)

Wouldn't that put an end to all this fuss! LOL!


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

I'm anti-slaughter but I didn't fight for or against it, each person can do what they want with their animals. I take full responsibility for my animals, "my animals", so I won't be guilted into cleaning up someone else's mess. Nice try though.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

Anti-slaughter doesn't necessarily mean anti-euthanasia, as the "letter" implies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It amazes me how great hordes of people will oppose various issues but no one comes up with a viable alternative. They just make a lot of noise.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

Perhaps those people should be required to tour rescues when a load of starved horses are brought in. Let them, personally, witness the pain and anguish.


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## DIYHorsemanship (Feb 22, 2014)

I don't think there is anything wrong with slaughter, but I deffinately do not believe in abusing the animals either (although I believe it is up to the owner as to how and what happens to their animal). 

I'd rather see an animal go for slaughter than see them die uselessly of starvation and neglect.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Don't you just love people who pass judgement based on perception rather than experience?


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm opposed to slaughter because of the conditions of the slaughter houses (look at what happens to chickens, cows and pigs!), because I don't think riding horses that have been give drugs and cocktails of things are suitable for eating and because I think we need a system to prevent stolen horses from ending up there. 

I think the assorted things we feed and drug out horses with makes them unsuitable for eating.

I'm not against humane euthanasia when appropriate either. The show and race worlds need to do better for their horses rather than cranking out more each year. Certain people should also definitely not be allowed to breed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

DancingArabians, OK you are against slaughter, but you have to realise that at least if you keep it in your country you can control it and therefore make it humane!

Currently the US has no control over the conditions in which horses in mexico or canada are slaughtered. Now i'm willing to bet that in canada its humane, i'm also willing to stake quite a bit of money on the fact that the majority in mexico are NOT humane.

In the UK horse slaughter still happens, however when the UK opened up our borders to easy export of horses, thousands or poor horses did journeys of 5 or 6 days to romania etc in over crowded lorries, with little water and serious injuries. Often 20% of the load would be dead on arrival or have to be shot in the lorry because of broken legs etc. They were slaughtered in horrific circumstances. But the UK has no jurisdiction once the horses have left our borders so could do nothing about it.
The ILPH took a very sensible stand and started the "On the hook not the hoof" campaign, calling for the live export of horses for slaughter to be banned and the slaughter to be brought back within the UK borders where we can control the conditions.
It resulted in horses having to have a minimum value to be exported (well above slaughter price) and an end to live export for slaughter, whilst the abbatiors in this country are not perfect they are far far better than the alternative they have to meet minimum standards, are inspected regularly and are answerable to our government


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## DIYHorsemanship (Feb 22, 2014)

faye said:


> DancingArabians, OK you are against slaughter, but you have to realise that at least if you keep it in your country you can control it and therefore make it humane!
> 
> Currently the US has no control over the conditions in which horses in mexico or canada are slaughtered. Now i'm willing to bet that in canada its humane, i'm also willing to stake quite a bit of money on the fact that the majority in mexico are NOT humane.
> 
> ...


This is what I was trying to say, I'm for slaughter that is kept "humane". 

BTW- Why do people get soooo upset about horses being slaughtered, yet they'll eat a hamburger??? Have they ever seen a feedlot?


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

About 10 years ago, an acquaintance, very much involved in the horse industry, was fighting to make changes. Her goal wasn't to eliminate the slaughter of horses. Part of her research was finding out how long drugs remain in horses and much to her horror, it was revealed that some remain up to two years. Horses administered certain drugs have to be held for a period of time but in many cases this isn't long enough. Whoever is eating horsemeat may be ingesting those drugs.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

faye said:


> DancingArabians, OK you are against slaughter, but you have to realise that at least if you keep it in your country you can control it and therefore make it humane!
> 
> Currently the US has no control over the conditions in which horses in mexico or canada are slaughtered. Now i'm willing to bet that in canada its humane, i'm also willing to stake quite a bit of money on the fact that the majority in mexico are NOT humane.
> 
> ...


Based on the conditions of cow/chicken/pig slaughterhouses, yes technically we could control the situations and realistically it would still end up with a horrible death for the horses involved. I stand against slaughter unless it's humane and we are SURE that someone's stolen pet isn't up next. We also still need to sort out the drugs issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DIYHorsemanship (Feb 22, 2014)

Yup, I don't like to use chemicals/drugs on animals unless absolutely nescesary.

We try to raise some of our own meat and produce for this same reason.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

DancingArabian said:


> Based on the conditions of cow/chicken/pig slaughterhouses, yes technically we could control the situations and realistically it would still end up with a horrible death for the horses involved. I stand against slaughter unless it's humane and we are SURE that someone's stolen pet isn't up next. We also still need to sort out the drugs issue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Understand, please, that I would love to see many improvements in all slaughterhouses, and transport for the horses even more. But, have you ever googled horse slaughter in Mexico? Do it, watch the video. I would way rather horses be slaughtered here than there! And all our ban did was add the time the horses spent in the horrible transports before facing that torture.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

KsKatt said:


> Understand, please, that I would love to see many improvements in all slaughterhouses, and transport for the horses even more. But, have you ever googled horse slaughter in Mexico? Do it, watch the video. I would way rather horses be slaughtered here than there! And all our ban did was add the time the horses spent in the horrible transports before facing that torture.


I'm aware of what goes on in Mexican slaughterhouses. Have you seen the video where they saw off the legs off a living horse and her suckling tries to nurse from her corpse? I have. I'm not sure why you think I'm in favor of that - I certainly never said it. US slaughterhouses would theoretically be a little better but still horrific. 

I'm against horse slaughter in the US, in Mexico, in Canada, wherever, and will remain so until and unless the problems I've mentioned are corrected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

DA it's a nice dream but all the ban has succeeded in doing is torturing horses. Instead of campaigning for an end to slaughter you should have campaigned for an improvement in conditions. I personally would far rather a horse was slaughtered in a less than ideal plant than what goes on in Mexico! 
Reality is the US cannot control what goes on in Mexico and never will be able to.
Wake up the face reality that thousands and thousands of horses have been tortured in Mexico because of people like you wanting a dream rather than facing reality! Yes maybe thier deaths may not have been postcard perfect but at least they won't have legs hacked off whilst alive or knives through thier spine to paralyse them then gutted alive

We manage humane slaughter in the abattoirs in the uk, yes there are some blips and the system isn't perfect but at least the vast majority of horses have a humane end and it is certainly a far more humane end than they would face if they were exported.

You will never be able to end slaughter, it is a nessecary evil to deal with a severe over population, you can only improve the conditions in which the horses are slaughtered. The anti slaughter campaign has done the exact opposite! and any one who supports it is DIRECTLY responsible for those poor horses in Mexico suffering so horrifically
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes, I love to close my eyes and dream of that world, where all horses have a home with love, food and proper vet care. No horses ever suffer from neglect and/or abuse. Should any horse, any animal for that matter, be injured or ill to the point of no return they be humanely euthanized. 
Or, at least, second best;
A world where all slaughterhouses were spacious, clean and employed people who love animals and work hard to reduce any stress. Where all animals are treated with kindness, never abused, neglected or abandoned. Where animals are transported in clean, spacious vehicles, with food and water provided, with rest stops, or at least only short distances traveled. Wonderful homes for all animals, no animals ever abandoned. Plenty of homes with people who know what they are doing, have lots of money, who will care for animals as if they. were their own children.
But, the dream always ends and reality rears it's ugly face...


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

Yes, I love to close my eyes and dream of that world, where all horses have a home with love, food and proper vet care. No horses ever suffer from neglect and/or abuse. Should any horse, any animal for that matter, be injured or ill to the point of no return they be humanely euthanized. 
Or, at least, second best;
A world where all slaughterhouses were spacious, clean and employed people who love animals and work hard to reduce any stress. Where all animals are treated with kindness, never abused, neglected or abandoned. Where animals are transported in clean, spacious vehicles, with food and water provided, with rest stops, or at least only short distances traveled. Wonderful homes for all animals, no animals ever abandoned. Plenty of homes with people who know what they are doing, have lots of money, who will care for animals as if they were their own children.
But, the dream always ends and reality rears it's ugly face...

Sorry about the double post, guess my head was still in the clouds.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

faye said:


> DA it's a nice dream but all the ban has succeeded in doing is torturing horses. Instead of campaigning for an end to slaughter you should have campaigned for an improvement in conditions. I personally would far rather a horse was slaughtered in a less than ideal plant than what goes on in Mexico!
> Reality is the US cannot control what goes on in Mexico and never will be able to.
> Wake up the face reality that thousands and thousands of horses have been tortured in Mexico because of people like you wanting a dream rather than facing reality! Yes maybe thier deaths may not have been postcard perfect but at least they won't have legs hacked off whilst alive or knives through thier spine to paralyse them then gutted alive
> 
> ...



Except I believe that ALL slaughterhouses = torture. One being in the US doesn't automatically make it better. The lesser of two evils is still evil.

You don't HAVE to slaughter horses to address irresponsible breeding. Humane euthanasia is FAR more humane than any slaughterhouse.

And seriously, if you really believe that every person against slaughter is "DIRECTLY responsible" for the horses carted off, then please let me know how many horses you personally have saved from a tortuous death. Because if you are letting it go on and aren't saving them, you're responsible too.

Or maybe the reality is that the breeders are responsible for the overpopulation.


Edited to add: I think there's a real strong misunderstanding of slaughterhouses if anyone really believes that a slaughterhouse with current standards and regulations is a nice, kind, swift death. Try reading my posts and instead of stopping where I say I'm anti-slaughter, try reading WHY I am.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

DA, I'm in the UK, I was part of the campaign for on the hook not the hoof, so far i've directly saved 5 horses from the meat man, but they were all nice rehabbable horses who went to have useful lives. 
That said I'm not against slaughter provided it is humane, thousands of unwanted horses, broken down horses and nasty horses have need an outlet. 
Having a horse PTS at home and the carcass taken away and rendered costs approx £500, whilst I'm happy to spend that on a faithful friend at the end of thier life, I'm not happy to spend that on a fruitloop who tries to kill everyone who goes near it and has put several people in hospital. yes I sent that horse to Potters where it probably ended up in a dog food can, but it was a relativly humane end and I got a small amount of money back that I could reinvest is saving other horses, I dont have endless amounts of money#

I've also worked in an abattoir so have a far better idea of what goes on in a well regulated abattoir than you do and yes I would (and have) send one for slaughter because a well run abbatoir is humane.

The lesser of 2 evils may still be evil in your book but I know personaly i'd far rather take the lesser of those 2 evils and have the slightly less than perfect deaths of horses on my concious than the torturous end that horses suffer because you couldnt accept that "lesser" evil and because you wouldnt work on making that lesser evil even less!
People like you are incredibly hypocritical and it disgusts me!

Yes I hold you directly responsible for the torture of horses in mexico! had you not campaigned to end slaughter within the US then thousands of horses would not have had to suffer anywhere near as much both in transport and in dieing.

Reality is that if you ban something anywhere then it will just move somewhere you cant control and then you lose all chance of a humane end.


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## DancingArabian (Jul 15, 2011)

faye said:


> DA, I'm in the UK, I was part of the campaign for on the hook not the hoof, so far i've directly saved 5 horses from the meat man, but they were all nice rehabbable horses who went to have useful lives.
> That said I'm not against slaughter provided it is humane, thousands of unwanted horses, broken down horses and nasty horses have need an outlet.
> Having a horse PTS at home and the carcass taken away and rendered costs approx £500, whilst I'm happy to spend that on a faithful friend at the end of thier life, I'm not happy to spend that on a fruitloop who tries to kill everyone who goes near it and has put several people in hospital. yes I sent that horse to Potters where it probably ended up in a dog food can, but it was a relativly humane end and I got a small amount of money back that I could reinvest is saving other horses, I dont have endless amounts of money#
> 
> ...



Amazing. You really are making a LOT of assumptions based on absolutely nothing but your own stigma against my stance.

Do you know how many slaughterhouses I've been to? Do you know anything I've done? Can you tell me how many horses I've helped? Can you list ANY FACTS supporting your accusations?

Nope. You haven't a clue. You're too busy on your high horse turning your nose down at people. You have absolutely ZERO knowledge of anything about me outside of the fact that I'm against slaughter and why. You have NO, absolutely ZERO idea of what steps I've taken to support my stance. You are just assuming things, and you really, really shouldn't.

Telling me I'm a hypocrite because you assume I'm not backing up my stance and based on zero evidence is a little nuts. 

Please let me know when and where I campaigned against slaughter. You make the accusation - you need to back it up. So...back it up. Show me the things that you think I did. I bet you will have a hard time doing it because only you believe the things that are in your own imagination.

Holding me personally responsible for horses slaughtered in Mexico is bizarre to say the least. I didn't buy them and truck them over the border. I didn't pay to do that. I had actually zero involvement in it. If anything, why don't you just purchase the slaughterhouses in Mexico and run them right? Can I hold you responsible for not doing whatever is necessary to do that? 

Can you really look at slaughterhouses in the US and call them humane? I assure you, they're not. As to whether or not that's better than starving in a field, I don't know. That would be an amazingly tough call. Obviously I don't want a horse starving in a field in a slow torture, but I don't want them tortured to death in a slaughterhouse either. I look at both options and I don't see a winning one there.

I feel bad for you that you're accepting of slaughterhouses regardless of their conditions. Do you hate all animals, or just horses? Because as I've stated time and time again, UNLESS slaughterhouses are HUMANE (not "kinda humane" or "mostly humane"), and PROTECT stolen horses from being murdered and PROTECT people/animals from ingesting horse meat tainted with drugs, then I am against them. I flat out can't grasp why you think those notions are bad.


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## faye (Oct 13, 2010)

DA did you not see the part where I said I have WORKED in Abattoirs! I know exactly what goes on inside a well run one and it IS humane.

TBH I love all animals including horses, it is you who comes accross as the one who hates horses, you have a very blinkered "not in my backyard" view of the world and seemingly would rather horses suffered extreme torture in mexico and on the journey to mexico, rather than a small journey to a local abattoir within the US where things may not be brilliant (in my experiance of UK abattoirs there is no suffering so it is perfectly possible to impelment controls to ensure it is humane) but they are a thousand times better than the mexican abattoirs.

Open your eyes hunny to the realities of the world!! anti slaughter people have made it WORSE for horses not better!


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## Inga (Sep 11, 2012)

I am anti over breeding, anti losing interest in your horse and dumping it, anti abuse, anti starvation of animals(and people) and anti shipping in over crowded trailers, sitting in the sun without food and water while waiting to be horrendously treated and finally killed. I am not anti slaughter. The article makes a good point. If you are fighting for anti slaughter I hope you are also supporting the living horse in some way and fighting for that. Helping to feed them, clean up after them and vet them. 

This is why every time someone starts a post wanting to breed their poorly put together or unhealthy mare, just so they can "raise a baby" I cringe. As long as millions of them are being killed, maybe snatching one of those out of the kill pen would do? Just a thought.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

faye said:


> DA, I'm in the UK, I was part of the campaign for on the hook not the hoof, so far i've directly saved 5 horses from the meat man, but they were all nice rehabbable horses who went to have useful lives.
> That said I'm not against slaughter provided it is humane, thousands of unwanted horses, broken down horses and nasty horses have need an outlet.
> Having a horse PTS at home and the carcass taken away and rendered costs approx £500, whilst I'm happy to spend that on a faithful friend at the end of thier life, I'm not happy to spend that on a fruitloop who tries to kill everyone who goes near it and has put several people in hospital. yes I sent that horse to Potters where it probably ended up in a dog food can, but it was a relativly humane end and I got a small amount of money back that I could reinvest is saving other horses, I dont have endless amounts of money#
> 
> ...


The persons held directly responsible are those sending the horses off. Why not have those people take a tour? Why keep blaming those who take care of their own horses, in life & death? 
I recently had my horse PTS, at home. It was quick, painless & calm. Yes, I paid a vet for the act, a necropsy & for burial at home. I'm certainly not made of money & will do without other things for a while. That was my choice. I don't expect any help from anyone so don't expect me to feel guilty or take blame for not helping someone else's horse "not have to suffer near as much."
I don't think even the rankest cur should have to suffer at all~anywhere.

ETA: If my understanding is correct the method in the UK is vastly different from the production lines used on this side of the ocean.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

I've wondered about that. Exactly how is horse slaughter done in the UK?


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## Kotori (Jun 18, 2012)

DancingArabian said:


> Except I believe that ALL slaughterhouses = torture. One being in the US doesn't automatically make it better. The lesser of two evils is still evil.
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, are you vegetarian/vegan?
> ...


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

As Inga said, this wouldn't be an issue if people were more responsible with what they choose to breed ):

It's unfortunate, but I'm pro-slaughter because it seems to be the only way to deal with an over abundance of unwanted horses. Otherwise, what kind of life would they lead?
I do think the system needs reform, absolutely.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Zexious said:


> As Inga said, this wouldn't be an issue if people were more responsible with what they choose to breed ):
> 
> It's unfortunate, but I'm pro-slaughter because it seems to be the only way to deal with an over abundance of unwanted horses. Otherwise, what kind of life would they lead?
> I do think the system needs reform, absolutely.


Something needs reforming, that's for sure.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

It's not all about irresponsible breeding. Many horses are kept in stables within municipal boundaries with stringent laws against burying livestock. These horses have served their owners well and in return have received excellent care but as the end approaches, slaughter is often the only viable alternative.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> It's not all about irresponsible breeding. Many horses are kept in stables within municipal boundaries with stringent laws against burying livestock. These horses have served their owners well and in return have received excellent care but as the end approaches, slaughter is often the only viable alternative.


Never have I heard that slaughter is the only viable option. Never.

Slaughter or starvation? Why are those the only two options spoke of when there are many other ways to end life? I've had to let horses go, so have many friends. Not one was shipped or starved.

I couldn't imagine sending an old friend "who served me well" off on any journey without me being there. I'll return the favor & serve them well too (& not with a side dish).


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Natisha, what options do you recommend? There was a time there was a rendering plant near every major center. A horse could be put down and the rendering truck would pick up the carcass. Those rendering plants are few and far between now.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Natisha, what options do you recommend? There was a time there was a rendering plant near every major center. A horse could be put down and the rendering truck would pick up the carcass. Those rendering plants are few and far between now.


For starters:
Humane Horse Remains Disposal : The Humane Society of the United States

Call equine clinics & ask what they use. They put down more horses than the average person (the horse most likely goes to a land fill).

Ask someone with acreage if they will allow burial on their place. I do it free for people I don't even know. Can't hurt to ask.

No money for euthanasia & burial? Get a cheaper phone, skip the nail treatment (although I don't know any horse people who actually do that), request birthday & Christmas gifts be $$ for the horse, cut back somewhere, on something. You won't be feeding the horse any longer so there is money right there. Sell something, beg, borrow.....be creative.....we have to come up with money for all kinds of unforeseen things, all the time, at least I do.
Prioritize.

I'm all for people choosing what is right for their circumstances & beliefs. Each of us has to live with our decisions & if someone is uneasy with the thought of their horse going to slaughter, as I am, they should know that there are other ways. Not always easy ways but other ways.


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## KsKatt (Jun 2, 2014)

natisha said:


> Never have I heard that slaughter is the only viable option. Never.
> 
> Slaughter or starvation? Why are those the only two options spoke of when there are many other ways to end life? I've had to let horses go, so have many friends. Not one was shipped or starved.
> 
> I couldn't imagine sending an old friend "who served me well" off on any journey without me being there. I'll return the favor & serve them well too (& not with a side dish).


Let me start this by saying that any of my horses that needed it have been euthanized and buried here. 

When you come here, to this site, you are preaching to the choir. The people here are the ones who care about their horses. When we talk about slaughter or starvation we are talking about the multitudes of people who, unfortunately, exist. 

Just because we don't own those horses do we not care about them? Do we turn our backs and pretend they don't exist? There are tons of people who treat their horses as objects, and as soon as that object loses its usefulness, it gets sold or disposed of. They don't care where the horse goes, as long as it doesn't cost them anything. If I had the money I'd go buy all those thousands of horses. WE care about our horses AND we care about the horses owned by those who don't, care.

Save your judgement for the people who don't care, those who leave the horses in a pasture (with no grass or water) to starve, to those who send old crippled horses to auction, knowing exactly where that horse will end up, and don't care.

We either have slaughter houses in the USA, that can be monitored, or we allow horses to be transported to other countries to die horrifically. Those are the choices. I would love to live in your perfect world, where dogs and cats all had wonderful homes also. But, we live in this world.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

^Piggybacking off of the above post... Well, exactly. xD People on this site obviously care enough about their horses to try to broaden their knowledge and networking by coming on here. 

But not all horses are so lucky... We (you, I, 'they') don't have any control over what other people do with their horses. It's very probable that a horse could end up in under qualified, or even cruel hands. This likelihood goes up for every unwanted horse that's bred, unfortunately.


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