# Help with Biting and kicking



## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Get a qualified trainer ASAP that is accustomed to dealing with dangerous horses, because this is a very dangerous horse. Unless you fit the aforementioned description (which I don't assume you do, no offense) then please handle this horse at a bare minimum until a trainer can come around. If you do get a trainer, disclose everything you mentioned here to him / her. He WILL end up hurting (or killing) someone if you aren't careful.

Wear a helmet when you're around him. Especially if he's trying to bite your face.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Can you not leave him out? Because of his earlier career he is finding the stall very stressful. In his mind he is back at the track and obviously hated it. You will likely have to take this very slowly. Walk him into the barn only as far as he's ok with. Feed him a treat or a handful of hay and walk him out. Try to keep him in his comfort zone. It may take weeks or months but he will eventually learn to trust that his stall is ok. Some horses feel trapped in a stall and are much happier if left outside.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

Saddlebag said:


> Can you not leave him out? Because of his earlier career he is finding the stall very stressful. In his mind he is back at the track and obviously hated it. You will likely have to take this very slowly. Walk him into the barn only as far as he's ok with. Feed him a treat or a handful of hay and walk him out. Try to keep him in his comfort zone. It may take weeks or months but he will eventually learn to trust that his stall is ok. Some horses feel trapped in a stall and are much happier if left outside.


Unfortunately I have to disagree with leaving him out. He is showing very aggressive behavior toward anyone who gets in his "territory" (his stall). Turning him out will only broaden his territory and I could imagine how much his aggression would progress if someone attempted to catch him, or maybe go out to throw feed / hay. Right now he needs an experienced hand to make him respect people. He is dangerously disrespectful. He sees people as intruders, and maybe he has reason to. Does his past owner know his full history? How long has he been gelded?

Turning him out for X amount of time and 'letting him be a horse' comes to mind, but I can see him becoming more unruly and dangerous through this method... maybe some others can offer better advice.


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## timber (Oct 25, 2011)

Thanks for all the advise.
They can come in and out of the barn whenever they want durning the day. They hang out in each others stalls. 
He is turned out durning the day I can walk right up to him in the pasture. Or he will come over to see what I am doing. Timber (good horse) stays real close to me at that point he doesn't let Buddy(bad boy) get to close. Timber will kick Buddy if he thinks he is going to get mean with me. I can bring him in with a lead line. Only one time he tried to pick me up by it.(I'm short) He is very stubborn if he dosn't want to move he won't. He has learned that I don't give up until he does what I want him to do. (I know I'm asking for trouble but I try to show him that I'm the boss not him.)
I didn't get any of his vet records so I don't know when he was gelded. 
In the morning when I let them out of the stalls I always do Buddy first he is closest to the door to go out. He follows me over to Timbers stall as I let him out. Timber usually comes flying out of his stall and blocks the hall so Buddy can't get near me. Usually Buddy bites Timber, Timber will put his back legs to Buddy he will give and go out. Timber always hangs back until Buddy is out of the barn until he goes out. They are starting to fight in the pasture but Timber dosn't take any of Buddy drama he will just go to kick him.

I hope this gives everyone a idea of what is going on. I'm know he is much more of a horse then I can handle at this point. Sometimes I wonder if he wasn't abused. 

Thanks for all the advise.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

timber said:


> Thanks for all the advise.
> They can come in and out of the barn whenever they want durning the day. They hang out in each others stalls.
> He is turned out durning the day I can walk right up to him in the pasture. Or he will come over to see what I am doing. Timber (good horse) stays real close to me at that point he doesn't let Buddy(bad boy) get to close. Timber will kick Buddy if he thinks he is going to get mean with me. I can bring him in with a lead line. Only one time he tried to pick me up by it.(I'm short) He is very stubborn if he dosn't want to move he won't. He has learned that I don't give up until he does what I want him to do. (I know I'm asking for trouble but I try to show him that I'm the boss not him.)
> I didn't get any of his vet records so I don't know when he was gelded.
> ...


That's good to hear, actually... maybe he has had some bad experiences in the stall and is in fact _defending_ himself. I hope he wasn't abused


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

When we got our TB gelding, he was five yrs. old and fresh off the track (3 months)..










...and while not quite aggressive as yours, he had severe issues. When he didn't get his way, he would go crazy.....like if he wanted to go out to the grazing pasture but it was being used and he had to wait....or if it was a windy day and we were trying to hand graze him......he would whirl, buck and rear...and I mean a strike out with his front hooves in your face rear.

I was terrified he was going to kill my 20 yr old son, who is his owner...and who had the responsibility of training him. Now, my son is no professional by any stretch of the imagination.....but he had 4 yrs of Parelli training and a bit of richard shrake training....and I was totally convinced he was in waaaay over his head.

But he is an adult. It was his horse, and his choice whether to try to rehab him or not.

Here we are two years later, and our OTTB has come such a long way. He is a delightful, well behaved boy who is just a big gray love bug. He has made great progress in learning to control his temper, impatience, horse on horse aggressiveness and his impulses. It is truly amazing to see a horse like him transform into self control and maturity.

So, retraining these horses can be done....but it takes courage and commitment.

OTTBs aren't taught manners at the track.....likely what you are seeing in your horse is the same as we saw in ours, only a bit more extreme in your case.....you are seeing an emotionally and socially immature horse with no idea of how to control himself....

When my son first introduced our OTTB to the Parelli 7 games training, he bit the carrot stick and tried to kick at it....now, he can do all the Parelli exercises without the least resistance or stress....he is a trainer's ground work/lunging dream.

Obedient and respectful.

Under saddle he is VERY forward.... BUT as long as you do not carry a riding crop, he is obedient and very eager to please. Bring a crop with you, even if you don't use it, and he is a nightmare of bucks and rears. Guess it's post traumatic racing syndrome or something equivalent


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

timber said:


> Thanks for all the advise.
> They can come in and out of the barn whenever they want durning the day. They hang out in each others stalls.
> He is turned out durning the day I can walk right up to him in the pasture. Or he will come over to see what I am doing. Timber (good horse) stays real close to me at that point he doesn't let Buddy(bad boy) get to close. Timber will kick Buddy if he thinks he is going to get mean with me. I can bring him in with a lead line. Only one time he tried to pick me up by it.(I'm short) He is very stubborn if he dosn't want to move he won't. He has learned that I don't give up until he does what I want him to do. (I know I'm asking for trouble but I try to show him that I'm the boss not him.)
> I didn't get any of his vet records so I don't know when he was gelded.
> ...


 
This kind of sounds like a fantasy to me. Horses don't do things like this.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Ours was the opposite of yours, fine in his stall...but a mess when turned out. But it's all the same, really. A horse needs to mind his manners NO MATTER WHERE HE IS.....

I would encourage you NOT to avoid stalling him because of his behaviour, but to teach him that rules are rules, no matter WHAT the situation or WHERE he is....and rule number one: aggression towards humans WILL NOT be tolerated .....PERIOD.

IMO, the problem situation should not be avoided, rather you should teach him to control himself.....stressed or not.

Being an ex racehorse should NEVER EVER be an excuse for such dangerous behavior.

It's up to you to teach him the rules of his new life vs his old life....where there were no rules except to run fast.....what you should NOT do is to make allowances, any allowances, for unruly or dangerous behavior.



Just my opinion.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> This kind of sounds like a fantasy to me. Horses don't do things like this.


The champagne colt from a Buck Brannaman clinic that bit Dan in the head comes to mind ...


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

If a horse was really biting someone when they went in the stall it wouldn't take more than once to keep them out of the stall. Horses don't protect people from other horses unless they are created by Walter Farley.

I know horses can be that vicious. That part MAY be true but the rest is fiction.


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## Equilove (Feb 21, 2011)

kevinshorses said:


> If a horse was really biting someone when they went in the stall it wouldn't take more than once to keep them out of the stall. Horses don't protect people from other horses unless they are created by Walter Farley.
> 
> I know horses can be that vicious. That part MAY be true but the rest is fiction.


Sometimes people mistake certain behavior and turn it into something else. They twist the horse's words. I bet the horse that's 'protecting' her is just being an attention / treat hog and won't let the other horse get near.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Beauseant said:


> *A horse needs to mind his manners NO MATTER WHERE HE IS.....*
> 
> I would encourage you NOT to avoid stalling him because of his behaviour, but to teach him that rules are rules, no matter WHAT the situation or WHERE he is....and rule number one: *aggression towards humans WILL NOT be tolerated .....PERIOD.*
> 
> *Being an ex racehorse should NEVER EVER be an excuse for such dangerous behavior. *


PLEASE be very careful working with this horse. I took many chances for about 20 years with a number of horses with various problems before my luck ran out and I had my arm broken. I had an OTTB, who didn't have stall problems. One time I lost my temper and yelled at hiim (NO excuse for that) when he was in his stall, and he wheeled around and kicked the stall wall next to me so fast that I wouldn't have survived it had I been in the way. TB's are sensitive and hot. (So are Arabians, but hot horses can be docile, like my Arabian "Corporal," was.)

Man, I just posted on another thread here about using your head when you adopt rescues. Since you're looking for help, and you really like the other horse, I would take this TB back to the rescue. There are other good horses out there. My time is too valuable to be wasted defending myself against a horse I spend money feeding/caretaking/training. Just MHO.
Welcome to the forum!


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

My opinion on this ill-tempered and ill-mannered horse is that he does not deserve to be rescued and should be shipped to the nearest sale with a warning attached so some unsuspecting 'big-heart' does not get killed or at least has a warning of what is coming.

I would like to know why people want to rescue crazy horses, mean horses and completely crippled horses. Obviously we (or you) cannot save them all. So, why do you not use your limited time, dollars and resources on nice horses and pleasant good-minded prospects? They are killing thousands of nice young prospects and thousands of sound mares that have been ridden at one time and are no longer useful for breeding. I watch 50 to 100 of such horses go through our local sale twice a month. They bring from $75.00 to $300.00 for young thin geldings (usually 2 to 3 year olds and some have Reg Papers and from $200.00 to $500.00 for big fat mares, mostly registered. They are all headed to Mexico and they are all MUCH MORE deserving of your time and money. 

I see one or two people at nearly every sale that buy some poor old wretched wreck that is a complete cripple or some spoiled idiot that they think has been abused. I would like to just shake them and ask them why they do not save some nice young useful prospect. If I had the means and the way, I would 'save' 20 or 30 from every sale that would make nice horses. 

I know that sometimes a nice horse can be made from a spoiled dink because I used to make a living re-training them. But, that was not when nice young, sound, registered prospects were being killed to $200.00 or less. That was when prospects were bringing $2500.00 or more. [You know, this was back when the Animal Rights and anti-slaughter idiots wanted to save them all from slaughter by making them worth $50.00. That has really worked well hasn't it?]

Anyway, now that nice young prospects can be rescued from the trucks headed to Mexico and Canada, why don't you people do that? Just a question that keeps coming to mind is all.

Carry on.


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## SaddleOnline (Oct 20, 2011)

Corporal said:


> Since you're looking for help, and you really like the other horse, I would take this TB back to the rescue. There are other good horses out there. My time is too valuable to be wasted defending myself against a horse I spend money feeding/caretaking/training. Just MHO.
> Welcome to the forum!


This is a dangerous horse. Point blank. You said you have children and another horse - they (and their safety!) should be your main priority. 

This horse is going to hurt someone. Less aggressive horses than this have seriously injured and killed people/pets/other horses. 

You have serious warning signs glaring at you in bright neon. There are literally hundreds of perfectly agreeable, safe (as any) horses available for adoption across the country right now, most for very minimal or no charge. I understand you want to give this horse a chance, but you need to consider whether or not the potential dangers are worth it. 

You don't say you are a professional trainer, so I'm assuming you aren't. This horse NEEDS a professional who deals with problem/dangerous horses - and those are typically expensive and getting harder and harder to find. Most people aren't willing to risk life and limb to make a horse sociable when they can drive down the road and find a comparable, safe, trainable horse for 500-1000 bucks.


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Cherie said:


> ...They are killing thousands of nice young prospects and thousands of sound mares that have been ridden at one time and are no longer useful for breeding. I watch 50 to 100 of such horses go through our local sale twice a month. They bring from $75.00 to $300.00 for young thin geldings (usually 2 to 3 year olds and some have Reg Papers and from $200.00 to $500.00 for big fat mares, mostly registered. They are all headed to Mexico and they are all MUCH MORE deserving of your time and money.
> 
> I see one or two people at nearly every sale that buy some poor old wretched wreck that is a complete cripple or some spoiled idiot that they think has been abused. I would like to just shake them and ask them why they do not save some nice young useful prospect. If I had the means and the way, I would 'save' 20 or 30 from every sale that would make nice horses.
> 
> ...


THANK YOU, CHERIE!!! You took the words right out of MY mouth!! We used to have a slaughthouse 3 hours from me in IL. Bleeding hearts used to complain that the meat market shipped horses 3-5 days, to Mexico, sometimes w/out feed and water, but they didn't. Bleeding hearts CLOSED DOWN this slaughterhouse in IL, and now they _DO_ travel 3-5 days to Mexico, etc. We USED to be able to go to these local auctions to find serviceable horses that you could pretty easily retrain. NOW, most of the horses are wild or crippled, and you see some go through unbid. It just isn't worth it! **falls over, thud**


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Not meaning to start a fight or anything, just wanting to voice my opinion:

I think some posters are a little too quick to say the OP should give up on this horse....i.e. it's a lost cause.:-(


I've heard this before, in my own life. We were warned not to buy an OTTB. We were told Beau was a fireball, he was dangerous, he was going to kill someone.....and at different points in time, I feared they might be right. But my son made a commitment to TRY to rehab this horse. I had to respect his decision as he was an adult. He is not a professional trainer, he knew his limitations....and his strengths. He has a way with horses...like a modern day horse whisperer....he felt he could reach his OTTB.... and he has.

I know it's a nice story and that some end up quite differently....and I do think that the OP needs to weigh her commitment and time availability (since she has two kids) to give to this horse, and most of all her abilities to deal with a horse like this, because she has two kids that need a mommy....but these are soul searching decisions SHE needs to make herself....

They are not ones we should make for her. Nor should anyone paint a dark picture of this horse and state that it is a lost cause....or that she is incapable of making things work with this horse.....

because we don't know the horse, nor do we know her!!!

Lighten up, folks......

Can horses like this be retrained? yes. What does it take? a heck alot of courage, time and a commitment that is rock solid.

OP needs to ask herself if she is willing and/or able to do so.

I take exception to the sentiment that the OP's horse isn't worth saving. We don't know all the facts, we don't know the horse...we don't know her. Some said that our OTTB was dangerous.......

But...look at him now: I hope this video brings tears to the eye. He wasn't worth the effort??? We should have thrown him away and gotten a horse "worth saving"???? WRONG. He was worth every effort....he means the world to us!!!


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## Cherie (Dec 16, 2010)

There is a huge difference between a horse that is a fireball and horse that is attacking people, drawing blood and WANTS to kill someone. Can he be re-trained? Maybe. Should he be retrained by a young mother with the responsibility of two young children that need her worse than this horse needs to be saved? Absolutely not.

I do not know if your horse was attacking viciously to the point of hurting himself on the bars of a stall trying to get to you, but I doubt it. 

Tell me why it does not make a lot more sense to rehab and train a willing horse with a good disposition instead of this horse -- especially for a young mother of 2 small children. I think keeping this horse is the very epitome of irresponsibility. Sorry, but that is my opinion. After all, she asked for opinions and that is mine -- despite the fact that I have re-trained dozens of mean and aggressive horses when I was younger, more idealistic and very much in the business of training full-time. I will be the first to tell you that some of them made nice horses -- not easily -- but nice all the same. Now that I am older, wiser, more realistic and have known many people that have been killed (2 come to mind that I knew well), severely injured and completely maimed by rogue horses they were trying to work with, I now put my values in a slightly different place.

Add to this, the fact that nice prospects are cheaper that I can recall at any time in the last 25 years, I just see no point.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

That's nice, Cherie. But while stating one's opinion one need not be so aggressive about it....because the OP is on here seeking advice and opinions....not condemnation of her or of the horse. We should help her with open minded advice (as opposed to saying this horse should be thrown away) and tips (as in hiring a professional trainer).....and from those of us who have rehabbed a dangerous horse: what worked or didn't work for us....and real life scenarios from those who have BEEN where she is now.

And YES, Beau was dangerous and actively trying to hurt us. DID you not read the entire thread? I did state that he was whirling and trying to kick my son and rearing and striking out at him with his hooves....contrast that with the video. If you even bothered to watch it.

It's not about what you think makes sense (training this horse vs. that), it's about giving the OP friendly and diplomatic advice, not going on some mini rant about how people waste time and money on dangerous horses when calm ones are going to slaughterhouses...a bit overdramatic, I would say.

I stand by my opinion: the OP needs to do some soul searching to figure out how much time, effort and courage she SHOULD or could devote to this horse. I think we can all agree on that


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## Corporal (Jul 29, 2010)

Beauseant, I am very happy for your very happy outcome. **hugs**
We do not know yet what the OP is going to do. I see lots of red flags in the original post, too. I gotta say, If I posted about adopting this OTTB, and Cherie told me I made a mistake, I'd be planning to get rid of him. Maybe you should PM Cherie? =/ She has LOTS of good training advice. I'd be driving over to see her and pick her brain quite often...but...she lives in OK, and I live in IL--maybe we'll meet up if DH wants to go trail riding in OK, sometime!


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

thanks, Corporal.

I am not saying cherie is wrong in urging the OP to consider whether to keep this horse carefully, and to seriously consider the time and effort horses like this require. I didn't mention that getting Beau to where he is in the video took EXTENSIVE commitment. My son literally ground worked him EVERY SINGLE DAY for almost a year before feeling that he could work on under saddle issues. A YEAR of daily ground work....

Another thing is the fear issue. Training a horse like this takes alot of courage. It's no walk in the park to keep your cool and remember your training when confronted with a rearing horse and a set of hooves whooshing by your face close enough you can feel the wind on your cheek.....

BUT, i don't think that a discussion of whether this horse is WORTH being trained or not is helpful to the OP.

ALL ...well, most.....horses are WORTH being trained, the REAL question is whether the OP could or SHOULD be someone to do it. And only SHE can decide that.....

I would say to the OP: retraining a horse like yours CAN be done. But doing so requires alot of time, alot of patience, alot of courage....and knowledge of training techniques. YOu cannot just train a horse with heart and courage, you need to know HOW....

Considering that you are a mother of two kids, also consider the considerable risk to your health and life.

It CAN be done, but should a mother with two children be the one to do it? 

Only YOU can answer for yourself.


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## Annnie31 (May 26, 2011)

Experience is the huge defficiency with this particular scenario. 
Taking on a rank horse for rehab requires experience.
Cherie is right. This nice lady has taken on a bit more than she should attempt to do. The OP has also stated she is in fear for the safety of her children.
That tells me she knows it is a matter of time before someone gets hurt.
Time to take him back and find a quiet horse.
The right person with the amount of knowledge required to fix this horse would be a great scenario. Beausant had wonderful results with her rescue because she has a son who had some training with some very reputable trainers and he was able to focus on the horse. Great results.
The OP has much more to consider, she is a mom, she has a family to care for.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

What I am going to suggest is that this gal always carry a riding crop. Horses milling in the barn are dangerous. As each tries to dominate another, their respect for the handler rapidly diminishes. Waving a crop at the horses is usually enough to back them off. The horses should really be in individual stalls, doors closed, and turned out one by one. A lunge whip kept by the gate will move the already pastured horse away so the next can be turned out. Keeps everyone respectful. This should be part of the routine.


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## Beauseant (Oct 22, 2010)

Annnie31 said:


> Experience is the huge defficiency with this particular scenario.
> Taking on a rank horse for rehab requires experience.
> Cherie is right. This nice lady has taken on a bit more than she should attempt to do. The OP has also stated she is in fear for the safety of her children.
> That tells me she knows it is a matter of time before someone gets hurt.
> ...


I agree with this.

Because there were times when we first got our boy that I feared for my son's life. One particular incident stands out where Beau threw a fit while my son was leading him out to pasture, he was on two legs, striking out with his front hooves right in my son's face. I panicked. I was with another boarder, watching...and i yelled for the boarder's daughter to go get the BO(who is a twice licensed trainer/instructor and who owns 4 OTTBs of her own)...the boarder said NO...she had to physically restrain me from going to get the BO, saying "he's handling it, he's keeping his cool...and "he's got to do this himself if he wants to keep this horse"..." BO won't always be around"...etc

My heart was in my throat....

Those were scary days....and I must admit.....i have no wish for my son to take on another wild OTTB rescue, despite the success he's had with this one. it's hard to believe our gray love bug is the same horse as the one in the story above.....he's changed and matured sooo much. And i am as proud of Beau as I am of my son for taking on this challenge. And i love them both so much......

but i have no wish to relive those early days of fear and danger....


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## kait18 (Oct 11, 2011)

from reading everyone elses posts they are very negative. i don't think every horse should be saved but that is up to the owner. i agree i will beauseant that its up to you and yes others like cherie are very set on there ways and i usually agree with them. but i don't agree with letting that be my only opinion when you have options.

my twh is no way off any track. but when i started putting weight on him he became more aggressive. and would attack me just like your guy does. i never got a trainer and sometimes i wish i did for some things that i am still working on. but if i didn't do it i wouldn't know how to handle him, nor would i know what sets him off, or what makes him trust.
saying all that. i would keep your horse out of the stall. if he is calmer in the field keep him there. always carry a lunge whip. start working with him in the field immediately with ground work(i would do some sort of join up). force him to move and when he gives signs of wanting to be with you let him stop and come in. if he doesn't keep working him. this could takes weeks. my guy was very strong willed and it took me 2 weeks before i cracked him to want to be with me. once i established i had authority in the field i worked him outside the field in a round pen. do the same thing. you want to make him trust and want to rely on you.
and someone mentioned it that you should work him slowly to the barn and with his stall. i agree. its easier to fix problems in the open field where you can work him. but do not attempt to do so until you redo his ground manners. he needs to be able to walk on the lead without any problems before attempting his stall maddness. 
once you have his leading back to a well mannered horse then progress to the barn and stall problems. but do it slow its a small confined space and both if not just one of you can get hurt. this part i would reccommend the trainer for. this can be tricky and you are mommy  congrats. but i would hate to know your children couldnt grow up with you bc of this guy.
if you really want to keep him. think about the time commitment. if you can not commit then hire a professional who can. if you can not afford it then think maybe its time to send him back and get a better suited horse for your lifestyle. i bet you kids would love to learn how to ride rather then being threatened by an aggressive horse.

goodluck with whatever your choice is. it is YOUR choice but think of all sides you need to worried about.


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## outnabout (Jul 23, 2010)

Beauseant said:


> But...look at him now: I hope this video brings tears to the eye. He wasn't worth the effort??? We should have thrown him away and gotten a horse "worth saving"???? WRONG. He was worth every effort....he means the world to us!!!
> 
> Thoroughbred "indoor" horse * OTTB hates rain - YouTube


Beauseant... what a sweet boy you have there! Interesting that while I was listening to and watching the video clip, my rescue greyhound came over and loved the heck out of me. This was a dog that we hated at first because he was catatonic but we turned him into the sweetest and most affectionate guy... he will sometimes even give kisses! It took patience, perseverence, and almost a year. Of course there is no correlation between canines and equines, but this guy is my favorite of all the rescue greyhounds we have had, simply because he seemed so hopeless at first. 

Back to the topic, I agree with Cherie, in that there are so many rescues available who are not dangerous and that need a good home and a job. Why take a risk on your life?


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## ReiningGirl (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm no horse training expert - let me just start by saying that. But I do agree with a number of people on this thread. (Even if they don’t agree with each other ;-) )

The OP has clearly taken on a horse with a lot of issues. Dangerous issues that can and very likely will get someone seriously hurt. Kudos to her for wanting to help such a horse where others would walk away. However, like a very popular thread in the "training" section of this site - there is a time when you have to decide for yourself when to stick with it (be the hero), or walk away from it.

Being a mother of two, your free time to work with this horse is already limited. A horse like this is going to require daily work for at least an hour or more to get anywhere with his respect and manners alone. And it will take the knowledge of how to correctly apply these techniques for them to work. Remember, badly timed, incorrect or poorly applied discipline can do more harm than good - especially on a horse like this. It could set him off. Time and experience are two things you'll NEED to have to even begin cracking the surface of this horse's issues. 

This is where the "stick with it/walk away from it" comes in. After all, what happens next will be up to you. 

You have to decide for yourself if you think you can handle it effectively and objectively, NOT out of blind emotion or hope that this horse will turn around. OR you need to admit that this horse it above your level of knowledge and expertise and is better off being handled by someone else. Am I saying that this horse isn't WORTH saving? Absolutely not. I think there's a part of us all that hope (no matter how small), that horses like this can be turned around. And, like Beau’s post - there are success stories, but there again her son had the time and expertise to commit to the horse.

In the end, it's all going to come down to you. KNOW your limits and your level of experience and be able to ADMIT it. Ask yourself what you're willing to risk to work with this one horse. Ask yourself if you have the expertise to fix his issues. Ask yourself if you have the free time to commit to him. If you even hesitate in saying 'yes' to ANY of these, odds are you're better off giving him to someone who can confidently say yes to all of the above. Do NOT, out of stubborn pride (this is coming from someone who used to be VERY stubborn), stick with a challenge that is beyond your abilities. It's going to get you, or your children, hurt. BADLY. It would be a real tragedy if the next post from you was telling us about another dangerous incident in which one of your children was seriously hurt.

My personal thoughts? I would admit that this horse (based on the original post) is WAY beyond what I know how to handle. My first instinct would be to reach out to trainers in the area and let them know the situation and see if any of them would be willing to come work on him, or would take him, if I was concerned about the shelter euthanizing him. Then I would look for a horse I could enjoy and work with that was more akin to my level of knowledge. There are plenty of good horses out there in need of rescue, re-homing, or just purchase for cheap. In fact, a friend of mine got a SPECTACULAR 4 yr old registered quarter horse for $500.


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## kevinshorses (Aug 15, 2009)

I think it's all a figment of the OPs imagination. She made the two posts in this thread and then disappeared.


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## MyBoyPuck (Mar 27, 2009)

While I would not jump to the conclusion that this horse is a bad apple, he is seriously lacking in training and respect. This horse needs to be with an experienced trainer who can determine if he can be properly retrained.


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