# Severe Ringbone



## HowClever (Feb 16, 2010)

oh wow, I'm sorry to hear that. I don't have any experience with ringbone, but just wanted to wish you luck, I hope it all works out for you.


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## luvmyperch (Oct 5, 2009)

Oh no! I am really sorry. I don't have any first hand experience with ring bone, so no help there... Where are you located? You mentioned the auction and the amish, are you in PA? I know you said you'd like to find a better farrier and I could recommened a few depending on where you are. Sending lots of good thoughts!


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I am in Northeast Ohio. About a 10 minute drive from the PA line.

I am pretty emotional right now, i got attached to him very easily. I hate feeling helpless. 

I need to call the vet back and ask him point blank - is he in a TON of pain? Am i gonna prolong his pain trying to fix hi only to find out i can't? Would putting him down be more kind? He made this sound so terrible, it shocked me into silence and now i have a thousand thoughts running in my head.


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## ~*~anebel~*~ (Aug 21, 2008)

Ringbone is basically arthritis and so it is progressive. Depending on the severity (I don't know what cases of ringbone your vet has seen) it is treatable with a course of Adequan, usually also Legend and full time turnout. He is probably lame on the other leg from compensating, and if his feet are very bad that could also be the case.
Be careful when rotating the hoofs back to a "normal" position as any drastic change can cause severe inflammation of the ringbone and potentially lead to founder. As bad as they may be, it might take 6 months to get the feet "normal". Get him trimmed/filed slightly every 4 weeks if you can to speed the progress.

It really depends on the severity - but all you can do it treat it and try to slow the progression. The horse is going to end up having to be put down from this - you just have to decide when and how much treatment (read: money) you want to put into him first.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I realize this is not something curable, but I'm finding it hard to drill it into my head that it is this bad. He isn't completely out of shape, like he's been standing around for months on end. I find it hard to believe that somebody would be able to work him the way that he is, but he had to have been having some exercise. 

The vet basically told me it's such a bad case that he may not even be comfortable on pasture. So basically i have to wait and see if he's even gonna be able to be comfortable once his feet are fixed. I called him back and talked to him some more. From what i understand it's an upper ringbone. He didn't give me many details but he's copying the discs to send to me right now and they'll go out tomorrow.

He seems to be very conservative about this. He just wants me to keep him on stall rest, no walking, until the bute really starts to kick in and then he can be turned out for a half hour at a time if he's feeling okay. He doesn't want me to do anything else.

I can't help but think, wouldn't cold treatments a couple of times a day at least ease the pain and inflammation too? 

What do YOU guys think? Should i go out of my way or is it not gonna make any difference? I was thinking liniment wraps at night, and hosing him down a few times a day. It can't hurt can it? I would think circulation would be a good thing, which the liniment would help with. Thoughts?


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## luvmyperch (Oct 5, 2009)

Not sure if you've started googling Ringbone for more info, but I found a couple of good articles...

The Truth About Ringbone - HorseChannel.com

http://www.steinbeckequine.com/pdf/RingboneTE3-08.pdf


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## CJ82Sky (Dec 19, 2008)

my sister's horse had severe ringbone and there are a few things that can be done to both ease the pain and slow down progression w/o going the surgery route. natural trimming or corrective shoeing is an option depending on the horse, the farrier, and vet recommendations. in some cases i prefer barefoot trimmed specific to ringbone, however in some cases shoes offer a better option for the horse. 

in addition, i've had good success with magnetic pastern bands improving circulation and reducing signs of lameness and discomfort in the horse. in conjunction with that, there are a few supplements that have made a very large difference - including jet breath (typically used for oxygen intake in race horses). jet breath b/c of the increased amount of oxygen to the blood as a nice side benefit helps actually break down calcifications (essentially what ringbone is) bc the increased circulation and oxygen. it's not something that it is advertised for, but when i put my TB on it who had a breathing problem, i noticed his large, solid, calcified splints from the track started to get smaller. now they are totally gone with no signs of any calcification whatsoever. 

there's also a few other supplements specifically for ringbone that can help. if you check out equisupps.com (or email terry through that site for help) there's a ton of option. i def recommend talking to terry b/c through the rescue she's seen results on all different kinds of supplements.

good luck!!!!


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Thank you guys for the links. I was doing some research and I don't seem to be finding much helpful, they all say the same thing. I really want to see the rads. Once i get them i am going to ask my ex-boss (just lost my job at a vet clinic due to the economy) to look them over for me if he'd be so kind. 

I talked to my fiancée and surprisingly enough he was asking me questions about the surgery, that i can't answer obviously. So that is not completely out of the question at this point. He's such a nice horse, I don't know if i'd want to put him through that or not but he is so young it's a shame. 

Dr Elliot did say he was going to have somebody at the equine specialty hospital (where I guessing they do the surgery) their opinion about this case and what the options are. I'm going to look into supplements and at least get him on those.

The search for a good farrier is not going well. I've left messages on 3 answering machines - but these are all outside of my county and i have no idea if they'll come out here or not. I would like to say money isn't an object, but having just lost my job this is all happening at a very bad time. My farrier is great, but i haven't even been able to get a hold of him to find out if he has any experience with this. He's due to come out and trim my girls in two weeks, but i can't wait that long to talk to him especially if i can't find another option. I guess that's the downfall of having a farrier who doesn't believe in electricity hence no telephones. I think i would like to go the barefoot route if it's possible, unless they think shoes would do him good. With his feet in the condition they're in... ugh.

I need to try to find a job asap, unemployment won't get me very far with all this going on.


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## luvmyperch (Oct 5, 2009)

Ugh, I can only imagine how stressful this must be! My fiance lost his job 11 months ago. The economy SUCKS! All you can do is gather all the info, see what the vet recommends, and do what's best. Does your vet know of any good farriers that are experienced with this?


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

luvmyperch said:


> Ugh, I can only imagine how stressful this must be! My fiance lost his job 11 months ago. The economy SUCKS! All you can do is gather all the info, see what the vet recommends, and do what's best. Does your vet know of any good farriers that are experienced with this?


He gave me one number, but it's a farrier local to them, and they travel over an hour to see my horses (which is VERY expensive for me, they get their monies worth for coming this way lol). I live in *thee* middle of the nowhere. So he wasn't sure if he'd come out or not. I left him a message. He comes highly recommended. I'm sure he'll charge me an arm and a leg for traveling out here, but maybe he'll come. I'll take it at this point, i don't care. I want them done ASAP, like in a day or two, if possible. I'll pay whatever i have to pay, i'll bribe! i don't care right now. Fingers are crossed i'll hear back from at least one of them.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

I can offer no advice because I've never had to deal with ringbone but I would wait to see what he is like after you have his feet worked on. Give him a bit of time to adjust once his feet are done. I wouldn't even worry yet about putting him down. Get the farrier and take everything else one day at a time. If you notice him going off his feed or dropping weight or if he starts to lay down all the time and shows no indication of wanting to get up or move, then you'll need to think about putting him down. If you cannot afford the surgery, then just put that out of your mind and keep him comfortable any way that you can without bankrupting yourself.


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## luvmyperch (Oct 5, 2009)

Sending hugs... I feel awful for you guys! I had a horse on trial before I got Danny, who turned up with Ringbone in the PPE during the trial. I was so scared that I sent him back immediately. I was completely heartbroken after just a few days with him! The good news is that he's happy today, in his new home, with people who love him and are taking care of him. For now, that's all that counts.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

luvmyperch said:


> Sending hugs... I feel awful for you guys! I had a horse on trial before I got Danny, who turned up with Ringbone in the PPE during the trial. I was so scared that I sent him back immediately. I was completely heartbroken after just a few days with him! The good news is that he's happy today, in his new home, with people who love him and are taking care of him. For now, that's all that counts.


Thank you. It is terribly hard. My mother cannot comprehend my way of thinking. She basically hinted that i should send him to the auction. Yeah, mom. I'll be the 3rd person he's been shuffled to that fails him. I don't think so. He'll live his days out happily here, no matter if they add up to 3 months or 10 years.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

smrobs said:


> I can offer no advice because I've never had to deal with ringbone but I would wait to see what he is like after you have his feet worked on. Give him a bit of time to adjust once his feet are done. I wouldn't even worry yet about putting him down. Get the farrier and take everything else one day at a time. If you notice him going off his feed or dropping weight or if he starts to lay down all the time and shows no indication of wanting to get up or move, then you'll need to think about putting him down. If you cannot afford the surgery, then just put that out of your mind and keep him comfortable any way that you can without bankrupting yourself.


Thankfully, i purchased a different kind of Bute than the apple flavored i had on hand. He smelled that stuff coming a mile away! This other is molasses flavored and he also hates it, but he is a good boy if i mix it with a little water in a syringe. I add a little Karo Syrup to it to make it a little sweet and thicker, and he doesn't even raise his head away from me. He just gives me a look like "Why, why, whyyy" haha!! He is definitely doing way better on this, since i'm actually getting it down him, than he was on the other. Yesterday he wanted to lay down all day, and i was worried about him. Today is a lot warmer, and he's resting his head on the top of his stall wall to get the breeze from outside. He seems way perkier.

I'm trying to think positive. When i am with him, even if we're just hanging out, i feel hope. He is just so bright and happy, and such a lover. 

My mom, and my aunt both, about had heart attacks when i told them news and threw the surgery out there as a future option we may go with. My aunt says "You took in a horse for free that somebody through away, and you're gonna spend thousands of dollars on a surgery? You could buy a great horse for that amount of money in this market." Some people just don't understand.

Let me ask you guys this, on top of everything else. Would you consider surgery of this magnitude for a horse you've only had one week, that you didn't even pay for?

At this point i'm trying to learn everything i can about it, in the event that the specialist says that's his only hope. I don't have that kind of money, but i would figure it out if it came down to it. Am i crazy?


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## luvmyperch (Oct 5, 2009)

Squeak said:


> Let me ask you guys this, on top of everything else. Would you consider surgery of this magnitude for a horse you've only had one week, that you didn't even pay for?
> 
> At this point i'm trying to learn everything i can about it, in the event that the specialist says that's his only hope. I don't have that kind of money, but i would figure it out if it came down to it. Am i crazy?


For me, it would totally depend on the situation of the specific horse. What are his chances post-op? What kind of recovery is he looking at? What kind of financial strain would it put me under? If I did the surgery, could I still afford possible emergencies later on? I know you want to do everything you can for him, and it's smart to educate yourself about the options. No, it's definately not crazy to keep the surgery on the table as an option, but just be realistic about it too. Best advice I can give is to make sure whatever you decide is in his best interest, not just because you're attached to him.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

^^ Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Question guys...

I'm sitting here about to order some joint supplements, and i remember i have some that has never even been opened. It's Grand Flex. However, it has a "best if used by" date on it of... 11/07. I remember i had stocked up on it, and then she passed on in 2009. This one has never been opened. Do you think i should just try to use it since i have it on hand? Google hasn't really helped me in finding out the actual shelf life of this stuff. I know it's not the best brand you can buy, and i only used it as a preventative for my old mare. 

I'd hate to throw it out, but i'm kinda afraid to give it to him?


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## luvmyperch (Oct 5, 2009)

It probably won't "go bad" but it most likely lost a lot of its effectiveness. I don't know what the ingredients are in that one. Check out smartpak's comparison guide. I use the joint, hoof and coat combo pellets. 



Squeak said:


> Question guys...
> 
> I'm sitting here about to order some joint supplements, and i remember i have some that has never even been opened. It's Grand Flex. However, it has a "best if used by" date on it of... 11/07. I remember i had stocked up on it, and then she passed on in 2009. This one has never been opened. Do you think i should just try to use it since i have it on hand? Google hasn't really helped me in finding out the actual shelf life of this stuff. I know it's not the best brand you can buy, and i only used it as a preventative for my old mare.
> 
> I'd hate to throw it out, but i'm kinda afraid to give it to him?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Floyd got trimmed today. I had my regular farrier do it, he needed at least a start to a trim and the vet advised i get it done ASAP and just use my regular farrier and then go from there.

I am not going to believe that this is all we can do for him, as the vet wants me to. Yeah he won't be usable and everything, but i'm not just gonna toss him out to pasture and hope he feels better.

Along with the bute as prescribed, i am doing or am in the process of starting the following..

*Liniment wraps. I'm doing these once a day for a few hours. 

*Feed Supplements including a Glucosimine, Chondrotin, MSM, etc.

*I'm looking into some natural pain relievers/antinflammatory such as Devils Claw. 

* Magnetic Therapy - I have ordered him a little horsie anklet

Am i missing anything?

And, oddly enough, i found a very old gash on his leg. I barely noticed a scab, and when i put warm water on it this was the result. What do you think of this?








It was certainly old, but it's still icky inside. And it's pretty deep. I'm wondering if this wasn't the injury that caused his issues. This is right where the vet says the ringbone is.

ETA: I tried to shave that, but Floyd was having NONE of that. It was stormy and windy, so he was kinda freaked to begin with. I'm gonna try again tomorrow, i just want to see how big/deep it is. I'm gonna try warm compresses to see if i can draw anything out of it.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

That looks like it's on his fetlock joint. In that case, it'd be the weirdest case of ring bone I've ever seen. I have NEVER seen Ringbone past the pastern joint. 
How positive is he about this diagnosis?
I guess he's the vet and I'm not, but if that's his fetlock joint and he's saying ringbone, I'd be getting a second opinion. 

If that wound is fairly bad, it could just be an infection that has spread to his bones. I'm guessing he came with that cut and you have no idea how he got it, but I'm also thinking there's no way this horse has had his tetnaus shot, either.
Maybe putting him on a round of antibiotics (Penicillian) for a week wouldn't hurt? 

FYI: A wound like that will not cause ring bone. Ringbone is caused by stress on the joints either by poor conformation or stressful workouts on the joints. 

As per treatment, if it is ringbone, I'd be thinking long and hard before jumping into any surgery. These are the things you have to be very realistic about. If you put ringbone in it's simpliest terms, it's a degenerative joint disease. There's no cure. It doesn't ever really go away. 
You can do surgery but there's no guarantee. What happens if he causes too much stress on it? If the ring bone (if that's what it is) is caused by conformation flaws, surgery won't really help. 
Then there's the financial side of it - How many other rescues could you pick up for the cost of his surgery? That may or may not work to alleviate his pain? 
I know it sucks to even think that putting him down may be the best option, but there just might have been a reason why he kept getting passed around. Only no one wanted to deal with it. 

Please also keep in mind that Bute is a good pain killer, but should only be used in small doses. 
It causes a whole lot of awful side effects including ulcers (from the throat to the stomach to the intestines to the colon) which can lead to weight loss and dehydration. It also gets bound to plasma proteins which thins the blood, so if your horse is a "bleeder" it's not a good idea to use it. If he's wormy or underweight it can be really hard on him. It can cause decreased blood flow to the kidneys and retain sodium (salt) and water (again, dehydration). All this also causes the body's natural healing of other wounds (such as the one on his fetlock joint) to slow down and wounds will take longer to heal. 
Bute's a pretty common drug, not understood very well, and it's NOT something that should be looked at given long term. 

That being said, I'm really REALLY having doubts about this being ring bone. I'd consider getting a second vet's opinion. Maybe he's a first, but man... I've NEVER seen it on a fetlock joint and I'm really curious as to how your vet came about that diagnosis.


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## Indyhorse (Dec 3, 2009)

Just as a side note, on using past-effective date supplements - always check your list of ingredients for what kind of preservatives are used. If you have BHA or BHT, you are generally okay. If you are using something that is all natural, or preserved with Vitamin E (many, many supplements are these days, and almost ALL liquid supplements are, as well as most feeds/grains, dog and cat foods, etc) NEVER use past it's effective date because Vitamin E goes rancid, like a fat. Same thing goes with your feed bags and dog food - check what your preservatives are, and check your use by date - especially if the feed store had a pallet on sale, or if they have stored the bags in front of big sunny windows.


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## Anvil (Feb 21, 2009)

WSArabians you had very good info. in your post.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

WS - Thank you for taking the time to reply. I don't think i'd ever put a horse through a major surgery, but it's not completely out of the question. It's still on the table for the future, and if it comes down to that we'll have a lot of decisions to make.

When i spoke to my vet yesterday i told him where that scab is. It's hard to see in this picture, but i described it as being at the top of the long pastern from the middle to the inside of his leg. 









I was trying to write down his exact words as he was telling me so that i did not miss any thing. I had to specifically ask him if it was high or low ringbone, if it was periarticular or articular, etc. I finally got some answers.

It's High ringbone and it's both periarticular and articular. He said "there is virtually no joint space left". Once i got off of the phone, it got me to wondering... if this is ringbone, and there's virtually no joint space left, wouldn't that mean it's started to fuse on it's own?

When i described the gash on the long pastern, he seemed to think that maybe he did have an old joint infection at one time that could have been caused from it. Now i'm getting confused. I told him exactly where it was, and from what he said it made me assume that the location of the injury i had mentioned could have something to do with the ringbone, hence the location. Now that you pointed that out to me, i'm kinda confused. I wouldn't say it's ON the fetlock joint, but it's close. Maybe even is, it's hard to tell. I'll take another look at him and see, but it seems to me to be just on the VERY top of his long pastern, right below the fetlock joint.

The farrier i had out pointed out ringbone lower than that. But why wouldn't the vet say "No, it's lower than the top of the long pastern" when i described the gash? And, let me mention, the Vet had *no* idea what was wrong with Floyd until after tons of blocks and Xrays. The farrier knew right away without even being told. So i'm assuming he *does* have ringbone. Am i willing to say it's the worst case ever and all this? Not exactly.

My farrier gave me more insight than even the vet did. He said just by looking at Floyd, he looks like an old horse. 20 or so. But he agreed with the vet's age guesstimation by looking at the teeth and said he's probably 12 at the oldest. He agreed that this horse was run into the ground.

Floyd has not had Bute since yesterday at 11am. And though he's a little sore from the trim, he is now putting even amounts of weight on both legs. He's no longer "turning" on that left leg to compensate for the right, he was always trying to pivot. 

My farrier was very optimistic. He even said "I'm not a vet, but i feel confident in saying 75% of this lameness is his feet. Lets get him on a trimming schedule, and we'll see where he's at in 6 months. I think by then you may wanna do more xrays, because i think he'll be improved significantly and maybe even sound for light riding."

He may have gotten my hopes up, a little. But i'm keeping everything in perspective. From a doctor of veterinary medicine to the most popular Farrier in my county who sees 50 horses a day. I guess we just wait and see.

And as for the Bute i do not plan on using it long term. The vet has him on it for 2 weeks, and he wanted to see him again then... but i'm thinking of getting a second opinion. It all depends on what i see when the rads get to me in the mail.

Indyhorse - I'll keep that in mind, thank you for the information! I ended up going up to town and buying him some supplements, but i'll check the ingredients out on that other tub and see if maybe it's salvageable. As expensive as that stuff is, it's a shame to throw it out.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm sorry, but I still have to argue with the diagnosis. I honestly, really, do not see an inch of ring bone on that horse, high or low. Even high ring bone is only above the pastern joint, not all the way up on the fetlock joint.

Ring bone centers on the pastern joint, either above or below, and there is no indication of any sort on the pictures you posted of anything wrong with his pastern joints. The cut on his leg is on his fetlock joint, if that's what I see. 
It creates the extra growth of bone around the joint to produce instability to help decrease inflammation and pain. It's quite promient to look at, and I don't see it on your horse. 

He's extremely crooked on that leg, from the fetlock joint down probably due somewhat to poor foot care, could be half from conformation flaws as well. Working on that leg at that angle is going to be EXTREMELY hard on the joint and will cause a lot of stress and lameness. Your farrier will probably be able to straighten him out a little with corrective trimming which is going to take a lot of stress of the joint and thus you should see a big improvement regarding lameness.


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## Anvil (Feb 21, 2009)

I would say your farrier is probably right.
Ringbone usually is low.
keep those feet balanced and he should be good for light use.
I also see he got piegon toed feet those can be a challenge to keep sound barefooted but it can done.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

The thing that i have the biggest problem with is that this horse is only 11 years old, best guess. For him to tell me it's the "worst case" he's seen... I wanna take his word for it because he's a Vet, but at the same time, it's hard to believe. 

So let me tell you this...

My farrier did take a little more off on the trim than i was 100% comfortable with, but i trusted in him. I He's a little sore, but he is walking completely different. I don't know if this is just because the toes came off, or if it's the Bute. But i had him on the Bute even prior to the vet coming out (didn't exactly get it down him all the time, but still). I took video's and pictures. I need to splice the video's together as i took them from different angles, before my boyfriend FINALLY got home and was able to walk him so i could record. But here's a pic... I didn't get any close ups of him standing for some reason, slipped my mind. I was more focused on the video, which i'll post in a little bit. You CAN see how he's standing completely different already.









I turned him out for a few minutes. I didn't want him to run, so i put him in our (still pretty large) fenced in back yard area we use for our dogs lol He was sooo adorable! When i left and closed the gate he gave me two baby nickers. As i'm walking away he followed me down the fenceline and starting SCREAMING bloody murder when i got too far away. Then he started to get worked up and even trotted, tossing his head. I then went back and got him because i didn't want him harming the leg. I guess we need to take this turn out process kinda slow, he is apparently attached to me already.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Here's the vid from the first day:





And today, almost exactly 24 hours after his last dose of Bute. I wanted to get the vid before he had more.


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## BlueEyed paint (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok i am no vet but i have dealt with ring bone. I actually rode the mare and used her for barrels and fun shows the day before we found out she had ring boneand the vet said it was worse case. My farrier said it wasnt ring bone she needed a barefoot specialist. She is still being rode and the current owners had it checked and thier vet and another vet said it wasnt ring bone. 

So. I trust vets. I loved my vet before i moved. But vets dont know hooves. And most will admit it. They dont learn about the hooves but just basic stuff.

I say its his feet. His feet scream at me. I was working with my horses with a barefoot specialist. The toes are to long and his feet are to tall. I really think that is his lameness. And please dont put him down. He may hurt now but you could save his life. And he seems to be improving. As for bute i hate it. Its like you on pain killers. You take alot and push hard and hurt worse the next day. Or you dont take them and take it slow and not to bad the next day and just move a little slower.

Wraps i dont like because you could wrap wrong and make a leg injury. The supplements are a great idea. With him even being 11 and most likely used hard that will help him even after he heals. And i suggest cold water therapy. I dont know why your vet didnt. It will help any swelling that may be happening. Specially in both legs and his shoulders. I know its chilly right now but its supposed to warm up next week

And i have to say thank yyou thank you thank you for saving him. I saw him on craigslist they were wanting 800 for him and i just didnt have the money. If you need help with trimming if you pay for my gas i will trim him. But i am about an hour away or so. Just a hour or so west of akron.

And if he was trotting on his leg then i have to say YAY because obviously its not that bad that he cant move. And if it wasnt for the radiographs i would of said his shoulder or a muscle issue. Needing a massage therapist.

I am glad you got the vet out to look at him and i am not saying your vet isnt a good vet. I just would look into other options.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

BlueEyed paint said:


> And i have to say thank yyou thank you thank you for saving him. I saw him on craigslist they were wanting 800 for him and i just didnt have the money. If you need help with trimming if you pay for my gas i will trim him. But i am about an hour away or so. Just a hour or so west of akron.


Are you serious!? Please PM me more about this because i would love to know where he came from/more info? How positive are you that this is him? 

The guy who gave him to me got him at the sale in Meadville, PA for $175.

And thanks for your input. I have a little more hope, but I wish those **** rads would get here! I don't know why he couldn't email them, he insisted on snail mail....


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## BlueEyed paint (Mar 19, 2010)

here is a website there are 3 barefoot trimmers in ohio.
The Horse's Hoof: Professional Trimmers List

The ad didnt say a place just that it was a 10yr old beginners horse, think it said quarter horse and needed to be sold immediatly. Or going to auction and it looks like him. I didnt save the ad because my fiance has put his foot down and no more than 1 horse till we get our own place.

And i am serious about doing trimming for you.


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## BlueEyed paint (Mar 19, 2010)

Squeak said:


>


 
Is this a before trim picture?

I noticed swelling in the knee and rotation of the knee. Also the bad leg the hoof is shorter. I am thinking bad hoof caused rotation and inflamming of the knee. And can also cause severe limping and shoulder rotation. And very little hoof growth means bad diet. Or no diet and could mean very lousy uncaring owners.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Yes that is pre trim. This is the only one i have after the trim, comparing the two.

Floyds makeover! on Twitpic


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## BlueEyed paint (Mar 19, 2010)

I live 1h 20 mins from lisbon which doesnt look to far from pa border. So however far you are from that.

I think WS is right on and seriously second opinion. And more of a trim would help him. Yes it will make him lamer but only because of changing the angles like they should be. Need a more aggresive trimmer. Needs to take alot off still.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Whoops! I completely missed your other post. 

That is sooo weird! Whoever those people are, i wanna go put shoes on them that are 20 times too big and make them walk around until their **** knees and hips go bad. Argh. Well, if it was him, he did go to auction! And thankfully the very unknowledgeable gentleman who got him decided he needed to find somebody to take him who knew what they were doing. I wouldn't change a thing, super awesome horse.

As for the trimming, I am pretty satisfied with what my normal farrier ended up doing. He listened to me and was open to suggestions and was a lot more knowledgeable about Ringbone than i thought he would be. If it's even really ringbone, i don't know at this point. He's supposed to come back out on May 5th to check out where Floyd's at and how he's doing, and Trim my other horses. So, if it continues to work out i'm good to go. Guess i should have had Faith in the man. I guess there's a reason he trims 50 horses a day and works until 1 in the morning. Thank you thank you THANK YOU! For your kind offer though! I've met some wonderful people on this site so far. Appreciate it so much!

And totally OT, but I go to Fairlawn/Akron quite often. I do some promotional/photography work for some bands based out of Akron (and Cleveland too)... where do you live exactly? Just curious!

Edit: You beat me. Nevermind. I really don't know where Lisbon is but have heard of it.


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## BlueEyed paint (Mar 19, 2010)

I am actually 30 minutes west of akron i thought it was further. I am new to ohio my fiance knows the area. I am actually from kansas. 

And he looks like a typical full blooded quarter horse to me thats just what they look like in some bloodlines. Like goofy looking lanky things.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Floyd is feeling frisky! Walked him out today and he was prancing along, throwing his head around and snorting! Haha! I haven't seen him t hat happy in awhile.

But on a side note, i would hate to say it BUT...

Now that he is losing some of his hair on his legs, i can definitely notice some thickening on his lower pastern. When i feel it it's definitely there. Like right above his coronet band, it just feels thicker and instead of a nice smooth "dip" going down from his fetlock joint to his hoof, there's a definite rise.

Blah  

Hopefully the rads will come in the mail tomorrow.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

I know nothing about ringbone, I just wanted to throw in some words of encouragement. I wish you the best of luck with him, and I'm sending a bunch of hugs and good thoughts to you. I also want to say that vets can be wrong. When such a significant diagnosis is given, I'd want a second opinion before making any final decisions just to make sure I was responding accordingly. And seeing as some red flags are popping up for you, that's definitely worth another look. Once you get the x-rays emailed, you can take them to other vets, or use another vet at your clinic. Just because they all work for the same clinic doesn't mean they all have the same opinions. Again, good luck, hunny. And you have a very, very sweet looking guy there. =]


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

riccil0ve said:


> I know nothing about ringbone, I just wanted to throw in some words of encouragement. I wish you the best of luck with him, and I'm sending a bunch of hugs and good thoughts to you. I also want to say that vets can be wrong. When such a significant diagnosis is given, I'd want a second opinion before making any final decisions just to make sure I was responding accordingly. And seeing as some red flags are popping up for you, that's definitely worth another look. Once you get the x-rays emailed, you can take them to other vets, or use another vet at your clinic. Just because they all work for the same clinic doesn't mean they all have the same opinions. Again, good luck, hunny. And you have a very, very sweet looking guy there. =]


Thank you! I believe in positive energy, so thank you for yours. He is doing so much better, he's been on Bute long enough that it should have already taken effect prior to the trim, so i sincerely believe that the extreme change the day after the trim was from just that! Which means i have hope.

I definitely will consult with others about the rads, unless i get them and see them and it's obvious. Dr Elliot said it's very "dramatic" and obvious, so we'll see. I've seen enough xrays working as a tech (though i never worked with horses, only small animals) and have looked at ringbone enough online that i should be able to get an idea myself.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

He looks much better post trim. I honestly don't know what ringbone looks like on a horse so I can offer no suggestion as to whether it is or isn't but I am willing to bet that a good portion of his problem stemmed from the fact that he is VERY pigeon toed. I have heard that is prone to cause ringbone but IDK. Again, it is entirely possible that the gash on the front of his pastern became infected and that infection moved into the joint and that is causing a lot of his lameness. I just don't know. If it is gooey inside still and doesn't start to clear up in a couple of days, I would see about getting him on some antibiotics as well. Also, since you are using bute to manage his pain, you might consider getting some Ulcer Guard just to prevent it from causing any intestinal problems. 

I wouldn't get your hopes up yet about riding him eventually but from the sound of it, he may be able to live out his life in comfort with nothing more than a really good trim schedule. I am keeping fingers and toes crossed that the farrier can really help him out, though I think I might get a second opinion from another vet. That first on sounds just a touch hinky.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanks  I know A LOT about Ringbone now, lol!! I had only heard of it before and had a general idea of what it was. Hoped to never have to learn, but there you have it.

The thing on his leg is just a really old wound, i think. It doesn't seem to be infected, it's not oozy but it wasn't dried out if that makes sense? He doesn't want it messed with, but i've got it as clean as i can get it. I need to shave it, but he has an extreme fear of the clippers. I wish i could get a better look at it, so i'll give another go at shaving tomorrow.


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## WSArabians (Apr 14, 2008)

All horses have a slight rise there, Squeak. That's just the pastern joint. Ringbone you can spot amile away. I mean, it comes out a half inch to an inch, depending on how bad it is. You should shave him bald and I'm still pretty sure there won't be any ring bone. Which is good! 

And I wouldn't doubt that you were uncomfortable with the amount that came off his hoof! There was ALOT of hoof to be taking off. My guess is there's still going to be a lot of correcting going on. He is going to be sore - He's getting brand new feet - walking on hoof he should have been walking on two years ago. It'll be like you running across gravel barefoot for him for awhile until his sole and hoof wall harden again. 
He's very pigeon toed, but hopefully if your farrier can change his hoof so he starts walking on the outside a bit more to help turn it a bit, that'll relieve him some. SMRobs is right - Being this extreme pigeoned toed CAN lead to ring bone, due to the stress caused by the angle. But this is something hopefully our farrier can work with.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Those are very encouraging words, I've never seen ringbone enough to know that it's supposed to be that prominent. I'm hoping to get the rads in the mail today, but unfortunately i've gotta travel out of town so i won't know they're here until the wee hours of the morning. I will update as soon as i get them on the computer!

Thanks to everybody for all your help, it's keeping me sane through this.


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## trailhorserider (Oct 13, 2009)

What's so sad to me, is that someone used this poor horse into the ground (or he got a bad injury) and then they dumped him at an auction. Don't people have any morals? And the poor guy is only around 11. He should be in his prime of life. :-(

To see someone ruin a young horse and then dump him at an auction really irritates me. They should have either retired him and fed him, given him away as a pasture mate to someone's horse, or euthanized him. I can't believe whomever had that horse felt no responsibility for him, especially since he is so kind and well trained. That makes me angry and sad. 

I'm so glad you came to his rescue! You are so kind to do that. At some point he will need to be euthanized, but he might have some quality time up until then. So enjoy him while you have him and know you are one of the few good people left in the world. 

How could anyone have dumped such a kind horse? At the very least they could have put him down.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

trailhorserider said:


> What's so sad to me, is that someone used this poor horse into the ground (or he got a bad injury) and then they dumped him at an auction. Don't people have any morals? And the poor guy is only around 11. He should be in his prime of life. :-(
> 
> To see someone ruin a young horse and then dump him at an auction really irritates me. They should have either retired him and fed him, given him away as a pasture mate to someone's horse, or euthanized him. I can't believe whomever had that horse felt no responsibility for him, especially since he is so kind and well trained. That makes me angry and sad.
> 
> ...


Oh believe me i know. When he looks at me with pure adoration in his eyes i want to get my hands on whoever let this happen. Obviously he was thrown away when he was no longer useful, which irritates me to no end. He is the sweetest horse, and will make a wonderful pasture pet. Sad they couldn't see that.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

*Xrays - I AM FLOORED!!!*

Well, my plans to go out of town tonight are delayed and possibly canceled, so I was home when the mail came. I am completely floored. It's obvious... that it is ringbone, though i only see one small "ridge" around the joint, not necessarily a bunch of calcification. However, the joint is completely deteriorated. I am no vet, but it would appear to me that this joint is practically fused together!?!? Help!?! 

The normal side:

















The bad side:

















This site was very helpful, and led me to believe his joint would be fusing.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

That's how it appears to me. Poor guy, that is so sad :,,(. But, he may be in some pain until the joint is fused and then the pain may go away. There is no way to tell. He will most likely never be sound but he may eventually live without pain. Just take it one day at a time.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm really curious what other people think about those rads. Thanks smrobs, i really hope i'm not just seeing what i want to see. Heh, I think Floyd needs his own picture thread, lol. But for now... We had another thorough grooming session yesterday. Still a ways to go, but i'm starting to see some SHINE! He's not incredibly dirty, but his coat is just "blah".

Here he is showing it off, plus a pic of his new sneakers so that this post is not totally pointless.

























This is really all he's interested in doing while we're outside...









"It takes a lot of effort be this cute..."

His new feet:








Spoke to the farrier today, when you *don't* need to find him, you run into him at the bank! He said when he comes out on the 5th he's gonna chop him back quite a bit more. I'm excited to get these hooves completely fixed for him!

And us. He is my love.


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## riccil0ve (Mar 28, 2009)

Wow, your vet was right. Pretty obvious. I'm so sorry. So, so very sorry. I hope you can make him happy and comfortable for as long as possible. He'll let you know if he can't make it anymore. And I can't get over how very sweet his face is. He really is adorable. And, on top of your thorough grooming, you can add a touch of corn oil to his diet to help his coat shine. =]


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Great pix. No post with pictures is pointless. It will probably take some time to get his coat healthy again but he is definitely headed in the right direction. I absolutely adore his big old dapples.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I love his dapples too, he's so pretty! 

I'm trying to research the joint fusion, but i'm not finding much that's helpful... back to Google i go.


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## maderiaismine05 (Aug 1, 2007)

Phew...i think i just spent almost an hour reading every single post from where it started is the Breeds section...first off i just want to say that you are an AMAZING person for taking in this horse knowing nothing about him..getting him for free and still willing to do whatever it takes for him! I wish there were more people like you...i know this is irrelevant but same idea..i got a puppy about 7 months ago when he was just almost 8 weeks old..for free. purebred catahoula...ended up with parvo at 11 weeks old..i spend $2100 on him to get him through...he did make it and i have him to this day..but the point is, everyone kept saying.."oh forget it, if it were my dog i would have put him to sleep...no need to spend that kind of money on an animal you got for free"...now again, i know its not a horse, but the point is, to the few of us out there, we do WHATEVER we can to ensure our animals live an amazing life in our care!!! they are FAMILY!...second may i say...i am SO sorry for the hurt all of this must have/and is causing, i can only imagine. So my prayers and all the best wishes, hugs and kisses go to you and Floyd!!!!!
I have to say, i didnt know much about ringbone either, but after reading what every one has posted, as well as you..i am much more knowledgeable!!!
I used to live in DeGraff OH, and our horses were in bellfountain but we raced all over ohio...i was born in washington PA and raised in the meadowlands...so ive got sources in both ohio and PA so let me know if your anywhere around those areas and ill see if theres anyone that can help you, weather it be donations, a free second opinion from a vet, farrier, ect...
again...hat goes off to you!


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Wow, thank you.  lol

I have rescued pretty much every animal that i have in some way, shape, or form. Even my pet rats, i traveled 3 hours to get 2 out of the 4 of them from a rat rescue. I do what i can, when i can, and do it to the best of my ability.

I have had a lot of kind offers for help, it warms my heart! The only thing i'm trying to do now is balance his feet, get his rads looked at by a specialist, and go from there. My farrier is being so generous, he only charged me $12 to do Floyds feet and said he'd continue to charge that amount until they're done. 

It gives you faith in humanity when people are willing to help if they're able.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Floyd is really lame today  I cut his dose of Bute in half yesterday. I'm so sad.

I don't want to use Bute as heavily as i have been, so i'm gonna try to get some Devils Claw and try that. 

Ugh, why!?!?


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

That is how arthritis works. Some days it seems like you can ignore it even though it still hurts. Other days it is not ignorable.

Floyd is a very handsome guy. He is lucky to have someone looking after him.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Floyd felt a lot better today. He's more noticeably lame with the lowered dosage, but i'm still trying to get my hands on Devils Claw before i wean him off. He was gimpy today, but nothing like yesterday. Yesterday must have been a bad day. Phew. I was getting worried there for a minute, that he was going to be chronically lame and have to be drugged on Bute constantly - which i do NOT want to do.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Floyd is walking a lot better. I have weaned him off of bute, and i'm only giving him joint supplements for the next few days. I want to see how lame he is, and how much the trimming has actually helped. Then i have herbs to try instead of Bute.

However, Floyd has not been himself for a few days. He's acting strange. He doesn't seem to want anything to do with me, and instead of coming up to me he turns his head away when i come up to the stall. He also has been very spooky and shying at things, when he exhibited none of these issues until the last 2 days? Should i be worried? I don't know him extremely well obviously, but he's acting like something has traumatized him in the last two days and nothing happened that i know of. 

So now i'm hoping this is just a phase he's going through of some kind. He refused to walk past a stack of 5 bales of hay that were in the aisle. It took me 5 minutes to coax him past and he tried to bolt. So weird...

Other than that... he's doing really well and will be getting trimmed up again in a few days.


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## Alwaysbehind (Jul 10, 2009)

It sounds like Floyd might have more wrong with him than his horrible arthritis. Could be something as simple as his eye sight suddenly not being there or a brain tumor. But a sudden change in behavior usually means something.

Fingers crossed Floyd is doing better soon.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

It could be a sudden medical condition or it could just be that he is feeling much better than he has for a long time and that is more like his real personality. It is really hard to say. That's great that he is feeling better though.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I really hope theres nothing wrong with him. Once i get in his stall with him, and get him to actually come to me (or whatever you want to say, he just turns his head away with that "shy" eye) he relaxes and lets me rub his face. The only thing i can really think of as far as THAT is, is that he's getting used to me coming in to medicate him and do other such horrible things to him sometimes? I just took it easy with him today, something was really bothering him right outside the barn door. The only thing that i could see in the direction he was huffing and puffing and shying away from (and something that wasn't there previously) was the bottom to a wire cage that was like a teal color that my boyfriend had been washing out and had propped up to dry. He wanted a wide birth from it, but we walked out and around the yard. He calmed down to eat some grass, and i spent some quality time just brushing him and massaging him. 

He was definitely dehydrated and hungry when he came, so i'm wondering if he wasn't pushed around some and mistreated a little. Now that he feels better and has energy he's not completely in my pocket begging for love. Either that, or the last few rainy/stormy days freaked him out.

I really don't know. Trying to think of any possible reason for him to suddenly be a bundle of nerves, but i can't really pinpoint anything. I did notice that he was kinda suspicious of stuff in the beginning, but he was not spooky at all. He would look stuff over, give a huff, and walk by. He didn't like the cats (we have 5 barn cats) at first, but he never spooked. Now... he's extremely spooky. 

Of course if it's not one thing, it's another. Never fails right?


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Floyd's first turnout in the paddock!

Aaaand.. the little neighbor girl loves him, and he enjoyed allowing her to make him pretty...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Aw, that's awesome. He looks so much happier now than he did when you first brought him home.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

New Floyd video! Clips taken over the last few days. Not on Bute.






Also today the little 4 year old girl that loves him hasn't really been able to understand why she can't get on him. So i laid across his back and rubbed him all over, and sat on him for like 2 secs to make sure he wasn't some psychotic horse when somebody's on him  And then she got to sit on him. He's such a nice boy, he wanted to walk with her but i made him stand still. Lovely horse.


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh, wow. He looks so much better. You are doing wonderful with him and that is awesome that the little girl got to sit on him for a while.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Thank you!

What's not so awesome is that i have a little 4 year old girl under foot multiple hours a day. LOL I don't mind so much, but she's here like every day. I know why i don't have kids of my own! Her and her brother used to come around over the last few years when my old Appy was around, and i would pony them around. So now there's another nice horsie to come visit... and i hear "Amberrrrr!!" from across the street, she stands at the end of her driveway and asks to come over. I either hide, or grumble to myself, plaster on a smile, and go walk her across the street :lol:


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

LOL. I used to feel the same way when my cousins would come visit. They were 2 and 5 years younger than me and it was my responsibility to teach them how to ride and escort them around. It didn't matter that they would be jumping on my bed an hour before dawn asking "Can we go catch Buck?????".


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

What a tale. Kudos -- huge Kudos to you for your care of this horse.

In regard to helping with the ringbone, you could add glucosamine and MSM to his daily regime. It did help my guy with arthristis substantially and it cost me only about $20 a month. I picked it up at a natural food store, but it's available in a lot of different places.

He is one much, much happier horse and like you said regardless of how long he is with you, he is spending that time where he is well-loved and cared for.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

He gets a pelleted supplement with G&C and MSM, plus extra MSM.

It seems to help a lot. 

He had his second trim today, i'll get pics in a little bit i forgot! But they're almost there. Seemed to helped him SUBSTANTIALLY once again, just minutes after being trimmed.


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## NorthernMama (Mar 12, 2008)

Squeak said:


> He gets a pelleted supplement with G&C and MSM, plus extra MSM.
> 
> It seems to help a lot.


Great! It's a little cost for a lot of gain I found.



Squeak said:


> He had his second trim today, i'll get pics in a little bit i forgot! But they're almost there. Seemed to helped him SUBSTANTIALLY once again, just minutes after being trimmed.


Sounds like a good trimmer you have. I'll be interested in the pics.


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

I forgot again! lol will get some tomorrow.


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## lennies mom (Jun 7, 2010)

*severe ringbone*

just wanted to say thank god there are people out there who care..sounds like you're doing everything in your power to help your horse stay healthy,happy and comfortable..i too own a horse with ringbone (high and low)..he was diagnosed april 2007,it's a terrifying thought to think or be told your best friend is on his last legs and suffering (here's abit of encouragement) lennie is still being ridden,lightly schooled (loose and ridden) and he bounds round the field as if nothing is wrong..we have the odd sore day and he does sometimes struggle toget down a hill..i have a great farrier and vet who work together and so far so good..his feet are kept back and his toe rolled to aid his break over,he is currently on devils claw and cortaflex and we're working on getting him barefoot all round to minimise concussion(he currently shod up front)his bute is slowly being lowered and fingers crossed he'll be off it completely soon,although he has never had high doses of it..being such a big horse (shire x) i have to keep an eye on his weight as well..all horses are different but with the right management many can live comfortable lives for years with this condition but sadly the fact is that it will deteriorate eventually..


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## Squeak (Apr 8, 2010)

Thanks! Encouragement is always appreciated, some days i feel like i'm fighting a losing battle.

He is, unfortunately, past the point of "as worse as it can get". 

But that said he does really well and while he's gimpy most days, he doesn't seem to be in pain. He gets stiff if he's outside too long, or inside too long. We're trying to keep a happy medium going, but with the weather (What's up with Ohio and tornadoes this year?) we've had to keep him in more than i like.

As of now i haven't given him Bute in probably 3 weeks. I'm planning on getting some more xrays done to see how much the joint has changed, probably within the next few months.

When he's having a good day, he gets turned out with my girls. They have 6 acres of pasture to roam freely, and they keep him moving a lot so he can only join them on days when he's feeling really good. It's so nice to see him out in the big field enjoying himself. Only noticeable difference between him and the other horses is his stiff stride, and he kinda half walk/trots when they get to trotting around. He also lays down at night more than the others do. 

Otherwise, he's a happy guy and i feel good about it. If the joint fuses, i will be one of the happiest people on earth! Floyd is AMAZING!! And as a bonus, he's a gorgeous pasture ornament. Doesn't even look like the same horse.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2013)

Okay, so I recently also found out that my first and only horse has ringbone and I was devistated. I got him in May of this year and it was the most exciting day of my life. Now, all my vet says is to only ride him very lightly and when I do, I have to give him bute.


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## sibelabmom (May 18, 2015)

I know this thread is years old now, but I'm a vet tech student who just came across it while studying up on ringbone and had to read the story. Awesome of you to take him one. If you don't mind my asking, how is he now?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

it's unlikely you'll hear an update. I dont' think the OP has been on for a very long time.


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