# Explain these markings/color?



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It's a lack of the grey gene in those areas. They are "bloody shoulder marks" that happen to be on the face.


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## paintluver (Apr 5, 2007)

Wow... that is GORGEOUS!!!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

IMHO, there is 2 options. It is either a bloody shoulder mark or it could possibly be the result of a somatic mutation.

My guy has a blood mark in a similar place, but his is more splotchy, like it's a collection of fleabites rather than one solid patch. His still has some gray mixed in.


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## SlideStop (Dec 28, 2011)

That is _really_ cool! I wish I know more about color genetics!


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

And, actually, the more I look at the pictures, I'm wondering if the one on the left is a blood mark but the one on the right might be somatic mutation.

My guess is purely based on the _lack _of fleabites on the right horse. I've never seen a picture of a horse with a blood mark that didn't have at least _some _fleabites scattered over the rest of his body.


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## Ninamebo (May 25, 2013)

^ that was my exact thought too smrobs. Any bloodmark horses I've seen all are very fleabitten. That would be interesting to look further into. The somatic mutation, that is.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

I would go as far to say the one on the right is DW.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

KigerQueen said:


> I would go as far to say the one on the right is DW.


If it were DW, the skin should be pink.

I don't think that there is a difference between a bloody mark on a horse with flea bites or one without. Bloody marks don't come back after the horse has greyed, they stay solid despite the greying going on around them. Flea bites usually appear after the greying process has begun, in areas that are already lighter.


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## GracielaGata (Jan 14, 2012)

Very cool horses. SMRobs- I didn't know Dobey had that on his face. Cool.
.... What does DW mean?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

GracielaGata said:


> Very cool horses. SMRobs- I didn't know Dobey had that on his face. Cool.
> .... What does DW mean?


Dominant White.


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## GracielaGata (Jan 14, 2012)

Chiilaa said:


> Dominant White.


Yeah, as soon as I saw your reply in my inbox it clicked lol. I think I just didn't think DW had any play in this post, so it wasn't at the top of my mind.


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## JetdecksComet (Jun 11, 2013)

Ok, trying to learn here. What causes a blood mark on the greys, and what is the difference in between that and a somatic mutation?


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

JetdecksComet said:


> Ok, trying to learn here. What causes a blood mark on the greys, and what is the difference in between that and a somatic mutation?


A somatic mutation is essentially an altering of DNA that occurs AFTER conception. Generally, it happens to a small area of the animal, so you get a mosaic look to the individual. In this case, the somatic mutation would be a small mutation in the grey gene in that area, that causes the grey gene to not activate. So the rest of the horse greys out, but that one area stays the same colour as the base coat.


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## Chokolate (Nov 24, 2012)

I reckon the second one is probably bloody shoulder, with a normal face stripe going over the top of it maybe, causing the clean edge at the top and the flecking at the bottom, and is then just unusual in that there are few fleabites on the rest of the body. The first one I would say is covered in fleabites and so is also bloody shoulder, as often bloody shoulder horses have a lot of fleabites.

*take this with a grain of salt, I'm no expert*


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## JetdecksComet (Jun 11, 2013)

Chiilaa said:


> A somatic mutation is essentially an altering of DNA that occurs AFTER conception. Generally, it happens to a small area of the animal, so you get a mosaic look to the individual. In this case, the somatic mutation would be a small mutation in the grey gene in that area, that causes the grey gene to not activate. So the rest of the horse greys out, but that one area stays the same colour as the base coat.


 Ok, that's what was confusing me. People are saying is this a blood mark OR a somatic mutation. But they are the same thing...


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## smrobs (Jul 30, 2008)

No, a bloodmark is simply a concentration of fleabites in one area of the horse and is a relatively normal part of that coloration.

It's about like a person with freckles having more freckles on one part of their body.

A somatic mutation in humans would be a person with 2 different colored eyes or a patch of hair that was a different color than the rest.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

No SM its not. if that was the case, the area would grey first and then re-concentrate color in that area. Bloody shoulders marks do not grey and then reappear. There are there when the greying process starts.


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

These horses have somatic mutations:


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## KigerQueen (Jun 16, 2013)

The spot on the last horse turned gray! Here is a link to the spot as it grayed out
Lorando B – Foto | Stáj MUSTANG s.r.o.


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