# Worm control



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Worm eggs are tough enough to withstand just about anything - its the larvae you'll be targeting.
If you can divide your pasture up into sections and rotate the horses around that will help kill the larvae as they need to get into a host (in your case the horse) to survive the life cycle. 
Agricultural lime will help destroy the larvae, it isn't toxic but you should have the horses off it for a while to give it chance to work and have some rain on it to get the dust off the foliage
Removing all the poop every day will also help


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Diet tenacious earth is amazing! You can feed it to them and put it on the poop and my horses never ever had worms since.


----------



## ilovejumping (Mar 22, 2013)

I've heard of that dietomacious earth stuff before but never used it. I heard the worms can't digest it so it kills them but wasn't sure if it actually worked or not. I might give that a try. If using it would I still need to deworm 4 times a year with regular dewormer?


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

DE only works when its dry - it destroys the larvae (and other bugs) by slicing them up on contact but as a horses digestive system is full of fluid its not going to be very effective as a wormer especially on encysted worms or tapeworms


----------



## ilovejumping (Mar 22, 2013)

What about roundworms? That's what she always seems to have.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

diatomaceous


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'd rotate the paddocks to break the cycle and poo pick - as long as the eggs are dropping on it and the larvae hatching for her to ingest she'll keep re-infecting herself


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

ilovejumping said:


> What about roundworms? That's what she always seems to have.


The life cycle is 8-10 weeks. Bump up your worming schedule a bit until they are in control.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

ilovejumping said:


> I've heard of that dietomacious earth stuff before but never used it. I heard the worms can't digest it so it kills them but wasn't sure if it actually worked or not. I might give that a try. If using it would I still need to deworm 4 times a year with regular dewormer?


It's works on all worms. No you would not need to deworm 4 times a year. 1 cup for every 1000 pounds I've read. But it all depends. Here a quick video I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-aU_Dsomw. It kills the worms every time. You also out on the poop and even if they eat it it's ok. What it does it dry's out the poop and worms. It works dry or wet. My horses are worm free ever since I put them on DE and put DE all around there pasture and poop.


----------



## ilovejumping (Mar 22, 2013)

I'll definatly be trying the DE. Sounds like it may be the solution to my problem!


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I feed Biotic 8 daily and every 3 months I do Para-X which is all natural. It makes the horses body to alkaline for the worms or eggs to stay in the horse so everything passes straight through. Ever since starting my horses on Para X and the daily Biotic 8 I have had clean fecal counts. 

The first time you do the para-x you will actually see live worms come out of your horse in their manure. It causes all the worms that are alive in their digestive tract to let go and flush out. Its pretty awesome stuff. 

Horse toxin removal Ontario, Canada | Para-X


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

ilovejumping said:


> I'll definatly be trying the DE. Sounds like it may be the solution to my problem!


Yea hope it works! I worked for me. Hope it works for you! An get food grade. Hope it works!:lol:


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

QUOTE from this link
How to Apply Diatomaceous Earth to Vegetable Gardens | Home Guides | SF Gate
_Shake the powder onto the vegetable plants. The best time to do this is in early morning or late evening, when the plants are wet with dew. The moisture helps the dust to adhere to the plant. *Diatomaceous earth won’t harm insects when it* *is wet,* but it will be effective once it dries. Shake the powder on the vegetables as well as the leaves; the powder can be easily washed off the vegetables prior to consumption._

As I already said - the horses digestive system is wet - the stuff won't work inside them. 
The larvae hatch from the poop and migrate onto the field and attach to grass stalks where they will get eaten by the horse - you would need to spray the whole field with DE to remove them and mix it into each pile of poo
The cost alone of doing it every day would be prohibitive


----------



## ilovejumping (Mar 22, 2013)

So if you feed it to them and it doesn't work while its wet in their digestive tract, will it not be effective after it passes through them and dries in the pile of manure? That should save you from having to mix it into each pile I would think.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

The horse will still have worms inside them though.

The Para-X creates an alkaline level in their system that stays constant if you do it every 3 months so the worms will never stay in them, they pass straight through.

I guarantee a fecal count done on luv equines horses would come back positive.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

It will cut there lungs if the breath it in. So that's why it's good to wet it a little. It will still work.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Or you could avoid potentially harming your horse, avoid filling them with worms with an ineffective worm control and use a proper de-wormer.

I don't use chemical de-wormers. I don't like them and refuse to use them. I have had nothing but success with Para-X and feeding Biotic 8. I know countless other people who use this control. It is all natural, herbal and vegan made.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> The horse will still have worms inside them though.
> 
> The Para-X creates an alkaline level in their system that stays constant if you do it every 3 months so the worms will never stay in them, they pass straight through.
> 
> I guarantee a fecal count done on luv equines horses would come back positive.


No all the worms will go. All my horses fecal have no worms.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Luv equins said:


> No all the worms will go. All my horses fecal have no worms.


Considering you don't believe in having vets work on your horse. When is the last time you sent a fecal sample to the vet lab for a proper fecal count?

I bet never because there is no way on earth your horses are not full of worms with your dangerous and ineffective method of de-worming.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Diatomaceous earth | The Equine Nutrition Nerd
Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> Considering you don't believe in having vets work on your horse. When is the last time you sent a fecal sample to the vet lab for a proper fecal count?
> 
> I bet never because there is no way on earth your horses are not full of worms with your dangerous and ineffective method of de-worming.


Well 2 weeks ago. Of course your horses are all ways have some thing of worms. But my horses "did not have any worms". Fairfield equine is a good vet when you in CT. I like Dr. Urion and Dr. Harmon. They both saw my horse in the past 3 months. Hope DE works for you.:lol:


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I have yet to have a fecal count come back with any positive count since switching to Para-X. Which is proven and veterinary approved. 

I read you DE link. Until I see something from a vet that says it is safe, I wouldn't touch it. It also says in your link DE can not be relied on as the only form of worm control. 

No thanks. Also OP please consider that "luv equines" is also the person who will tell you to never vaccinate your horse because it will "kill them". I wouldn't take anything seriously from "luv equines"

Para-X is also human safe, and I use it myself and on my dogs the same time I do my horses. All my horses lick it off the syringe. As do my dogs.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

DE is good to because you can give it thru a 1 day to 62 year period. Most people do it thru a 5 are so day time. It helps not cause impaction colic too.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

NBEventer said:


> I have yet to have a fecal count come back with any positive count since switching to Para-X. Which is proven and veterinary approved.
> 
> I read you DE link. Until I see something from a vet that says it is safe, I wouldn't touch it. It also says in your link DE can not be relied on as the only form of worm control.
> 
> ...


LOL! Well just tellin the truth. It can't hurt at all. I use it and it works.


----------



## Shoebox (Apr 18, 2012)

If this DE "slices up worms with the slightest contact" why on earth would I want it in contact with the delicate mucous membranes of my horse?


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Luv equins said:


> DE is good to because you can give it thru a 1 day to 62 year period. Most people do it thru a 5 are so day time. It helps not cause impaction colic too.


62 years?


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

There is no proof that DE kills equine intestinal parasites in the soil. A&M also did a preliminary study on DE for killing intestinal parasites in the horse several years ago and found no evidence that it was effective.

Environmental parasite control is feces removal at least every other day. Heat and dry conditions in the summer (over 85 degrees F) also decrease small strongyle numbers in the environment. Freezing does nothing to remove parasites, but prevent the development of small strongyles from eggs to infective larva and does typically mean that horses aren't grazing and therefore are less likely to be getting infected.

You may or may not be effectively treating parasites if you are deworming 4 times a year and using different products each time due to the fact that parasites having been showing resistance to commonly used deworming products for more than 15 years. You need to deworm at appropriate times, focus on the horses that have less immunity to parasites (yes, horses develop a level of resistance to parasites and not all have the same level) and make sure that the drugs you are using are effective. 

You will find several great resources on parasites and parasite control here: Search results for parasite | TheHorse.com


----------



## ilovejumping (Mar 22, 2013)

My horses that run loose on several hundred acres never seem to have worms but I always deworm them anyway just to be on the safe side, and once in a while when I go looking at their refusal hangout spots after deworming I might a couple bot larvae, but nothing else. They are always very healthy and worm free it's just I've never kept a horse in a small area for more than a couple months, and this little mini I got over a year ago was loaded with worms when I got her. It's just been a battle with her, she obviously has a weakness to worms, just round worms though it seems. The vets just tell you to deworm more often but I'd like to find a method that is actually effective in a small area. I will start with cleaning her paddock more often, every day and try the DE and see if I am any further ahead. She's on just over an acre.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Ryle said:


> There is no proof that DE kills equine intestinal parasites in the soil. A&M also did a preliminary study on DE for killing intestinal parasites in the horse several years ago and found no evidence that it was effective.
> 
> Environmental parasite control is feces removal at least every other day. Heat and dry conditions in the summer (over 85 degrees F) also decrease small strongyle numbers in the environment. Freezing does nothing to remove parasites, but prevent the development of small strongyles from eggs to infective larva and does typically mean that horses aren't grazing and therefore are less likely to be getting infected.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I was hoping you'd show up.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

ilovejumping said:


> My horses that run loose on several hundred acres never seem to have worms but I always deworm them anyway just to be on the safe side, and once in a while when I go looking at their refusal hangout spots after deworming I might a couple bot larvae, but nothing else. They are always very healthy and worm free it's just I've never kept a horse in a small area for more than a couple months, and this little mini I got over a year ago was loaded with worms when I got her. It's just been a battle with her, she obviously has a weakness to worms, just round worms though it seems. The vets just tell you to deworm more often but I'd like to find a method that is actually effective in a small area. I will start with cleaning her paddock more often, every day and try the DE and see if I am any further ahead. She's on just over an acre.


The hundreds of acres are probably why your horses don't have parasites. They don't have to eat where another has pooped.
An acre probably seems like 100 to a mini. Why not use proven methods to deworm? Avoid Quest dewormer & she should be good. It seems the safe way to go instead of dumping DE into her.


----------



## JCnGrace (Apr 28, 2013)

Since it's only roundworms why not put her on a daily dewormer for a few months. Long enough to get her cleared up and to break the life cycle in the pasture. I had to do that on a group of very sad looking weanlings I dragged home once.

http://www.valleyvet.com/c/horse-supplies/horse-wormers/continuous-wormer-equine.html


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

ilovejumping said:


> So if you feed it to them and it doesn't work while its wet in their digestive tract, will it not be effective after it passes through them and dries in the pile of manure? That should save you from having to mix it into each pile I would think.


No it won't. By the time the pile of manure dries up enough the larvae will no doubt be long gone - onto the grass and eaten by your mini - and even if it did work you'd be destroying beneficial bugs like dung beetles at the same time
Why on earth not spend half an hour each day removing the poo off the field? Not only are you removing worm eggs you're making your paddock a better place - grass that's covered in poo and close to poo gets sour and the horses won't eat it and the poo attracts flies
DE is mostly used by gardeners who want to avoid chemicals for bug control and even they (see link I posted) will tell you that its ineffective when wet


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

DE works wet or dry. Yes it works better dry. If you mix it with your grain it may stick. Yea if your cleaning up her pasture you can throw some DE around. Put it on her poop, feed it to her. It help get their coat nice too! You can also put it on their coat.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkLkfCVg9OA&t=107


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

How about this? Spend $3 on ivermectin & 30 seconds to administer it.


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

natisha said:


> How about this? Spend $3 on ivermectin & 30 seconds to administer it.


Exactly. :wink:


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

That video is talking (amongst other things) about the negative effects of using regular daily dewormers - something all vets say is a bad thing but mainly because they create a resistance to the active ingredient
As for the use of wet DE being effective - please stop giving false advice. It is not
From this link
Diatomaceous EarthDirt Doctor Howard Garrett Organic Gardening, Home, Health, Pet Care, Pest Control, Compost, Nutrition, Environment
_The wet spray method does work but only after the liquid has dried. Mix from 1-4 tablespoons DE per gallon of water and spray on the lawn, shrubs, tree trunks and building foundations. When the mixture dries, it has the same dehydrating powers as the original dry dust. When sprayed wet the material covers the foliage and other surfaces better than dusting dry, thus giving better insect control. It seems to last longer when applied wet but the dry application is usually more effective at killing insects quickly. *DE has no insect killing power while it is wet. *_

And from this one
How to Apply Diatomaceous Earth to Vegetable Gardens | Home Guides | SF Gate
_Shake the powder onto the vegetable plants. The best time to do this is in early morning or late evening, when the plants are wet with dew. The moisture helps the dust to adhere to the plant. *Diatomaceous earth won’t harm insects when it is wet*, but it will be effective once it dries. Shake the powder on the vegetables as well as the leaves; the powder can be easily washed off the vegetables prior to consumption._

If we believed everything we saw on the internet we'd be complete fools - there are people who will claim all sorts of nonsense while totally ignoring the actual evidence. I am not one of them.
In fact since the stuff absorbs liquid so well I'd be concerned that feeding too much to a horse could cause dehydration and impaction colic


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

http://thesoulofahorse.com/blog/no-more-poison-life-without-de-wormers/


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

http://thesoulofahorse.com/blog/no-more-poison-life-without-de-wormers/


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

^

Can you post words and paragraphs, even sentences? All your info is article after article. Seems like you have no knowledge and are just Googling whatever as you go. Doesn't look very impressive or make you look knowledgeable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Roman said:


> ^
> 
> Can you post words and paragraphs, even sentences? All your info is article after article. Seems like you have no knowledge and are just Googling whatever as you go. Doesn't look very impressive or make you look knowledgeable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea I can and I do. *jaydee* fixed it for me!


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

*jaydee* excuse you. My horses do great on it! I hope the DE works for you. Yea you can put DE in there pasture on there poop. Feed it to them. My horses are worm free and if she eats her poop she will just get a little more DE. Hope what I said helps. Good luck. I know it work for my mini that is in a smaller pasture.


----------



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Luv equins said:


> Yea I can and I do. *jaydee* fixed it for me!



your post was edited because you posted links to other forums, which is against forum rules. if you call that being 'fixed', fine, but I call it breaking rules.


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

ilovejumping said:


> What about roundworms? That's what she always seems to have.


Are you identifying roundworms in the feces or eggs on a fecal? I ask because it is extremely easy to confuse pinworms for roundworms in feces. Pinworms are also harder to clear up. 

Horses over 18 months of age typically don't have roundworm infections.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Luv equins said:


> *jaydee* excuse you. My horses do great on it! I hope the DE works for you. Yea you can put DE in there pasture on there poop. Feed it to them. My horses are worm free and if she eats her poop she will just get a little more DE. Hope what I said helps. Good luck. I know it work for my mini that is in a smaller pasture.


You feed your horses their own crap that you sprinkled with DE? You mentioned that same thing in post #34.


----------



## Smilie (Oct 4, 2010)

Luv equins said:


> Diet tenacious earth is amazing! You can feed it to them and put it on the poop and my horses never ever had worms since.


 Your spelling is way off!
I think you meant Diatomaceous Earth

DE is good to spread on stall floors, as the sharp edges can damage parasites, but it is questionable, used as a de-wormer

The most controversial use of diatomaceous earth is as a dewormer. The theory is the sharp particles will kill intestinal worms. Unfortunately various studies at recognized research centers have not proven this to be true.
There is also the question about what DE could do to a horse with ulcers or other digestive issues. I would not want to introduce particles with sharp edges to an already compromised digestive system.

I know that if the word 'natural' is in front of any product, Luv, you instantly thin that it is better or harmless, but that is simply not true.
Did you do fecal egg counts?


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

natisha said:


> You feed your horses their own crap that you sprinkled with DE? You mentioned that same thing in post #34.


I would never feed ANY animal poop. I highly doubt a horse would eat its poop.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I go along with most- DE is not effective. It will not kill encrypted worms or lung worm. 

As for going around sprinkling DE on piles of poop, it would be quicker and cheaper to pick up the piles and remove them from the paddock.

Fecal testing is never 100% reliable. The sample, which is quite small, sent might just not have worms/eggs in it.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Diatomaceous Earth

DE
In 2009, a study was conducted at North Carolina A&T State University to determine the effect of DE on goats naturally-infected with internal parasites (primarily Haemonchus contortus, Eimeria, and Trichostrongylus spp.).

Twenty Spanish and Spanish x Boer does (avg. 88 lb.) were randomly assigned to four treatment groups. For eight days, they were treated with DE at different concentrations: Group 1, 1.77 g DE; Group 2, 3.54 g DE; and Group 3, 5.31 g DE.

The DE was mixed with 150 ml of sterile water and administered as a drench. Goats in Group 4 were drenched with sterile water and served as untreated controls.

The goats were kept outdoors in sheltered pens with concrete floors. They were fed a concentrate diet.

Body weights, fecal egg counts, packed cell volume, and white (WBC) and red blood cell (RBC) counts were measured weekly for six weeks. Over the duration of the study, increases in fecal egg counts were observed, and packed cell volumes decreased in all groups. All groups exhibited increases in WBC and decreases in RBC counts. An anthelmintic effect of DE was not observed, as there were no significant reductions in fecal egg count as a result of DE administration.

This is part of a *scientific* test, one of many and all say much the same. Tests were done on goats, sheep and cattle.


----------



## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> *jaydee* excuse you. My horses do great on it! I hope the DE works for you. Yea you can put DE in there pasture on there poop. Feed it to them. My horses are worm free and if she eats her poop she will just get a little more DE. Hope what I said helps. Good luck. I know it work for my mini that is in a smaller pasture.



You did the same thing on the vaccine thread, now your on here repeating your all natural,nothing else works routine. Iv tryed DE did nothing for getting rid of worms in my horses.

I worm twice a year and my horses fecal egg counts are real low. I keep paddocks clean poop is picked up daily,best worm control there is.:wink:


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Vets do it all the time feed a healthy horse poop to a sick horse. I don't do it but if the mini is out in her pasture you can't stop her from eating her own poop. Diatomaceous earth is very good. It works and very good for the horse.


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Luv equins said:


> Vets do it all the time feed a healthy horse poop to a sick horse. I don't do it but if the mini is out in her pasture you can't stop her from eating her own poop. Diatomaceous earth is very good. It works and very good for the horse.



Nope, vets don't do it all the time. 

Other than foals, horses don't eat feces unless they are in dire straits and can't find anything else to eat. They will eat grass near feces, but again that's only when the pasture is not sufficient and the only grass they have to eat is near feces.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Smilie said:


> Your spelling is way off!
> I think you meant Diatomaceous Earth
> 
> DE is good to spread on stall floors, as the sharp edges can damage parasites, but it is questionable, used as a de-wormer
> ...


They are probably done with spring shots.....oh wait.....never mind.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Maybe the mini is young or the horses in the adjoining field are young and the roundworm infection has passed from them
Whatever the reason I would not take any risks with a mini and roundworm - the don't adjust their size to fit the size of the host animal and when you look at the potential risks from an infestation
QUOTE:
_Most damage occurs as roundworms migrate through the body. They cause coughing, pneumonia, liver damage, diarrhea, and colic. Large numbers of adult roundworms can cause intestinal blockage or rupture. Other signs include unthriftiness, pot belly, rough hair coat, and slow growth. _

And consider their life cycle
QUOTE:
_ Horses become infected with roundworms by swallowing the eggs in contaminated hay or water. In the stomach, the eggs develop into larvae which migrate to the liver and the heart and to the lungs, where they are coughed up and swallowed. Once back in the stomach, they develop into egg-laying adults. The life cycle takes about three months. _

You can see why DE (Even if it work) would be no use as against them
An Ivermectin product that works in the bloodstream is likely to be the most effective because it will get them at any stage of their life cycle

I won't even use DE as garden pesticide spray on plants because once dry it will kill anything that gets the dust on it - including bees


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

If the mini is young, that is one thing but adult horses are typically quite resistant to roundworms so even if there are young horses in the same or adjoining pastures they don't typically have roundworms.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

We had a 4 year old that came to us as a livery that had them - but he was the only older horse I ever saw with them. 
He'd come from a Livery (Boarding) yard/Riding School that as far as I know didn't have young horses
Roundworm are big too - about as thick as a pencil and up to a foot long
http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/endoparasite-control-in-horses.aspx
You might have to click on the map of UK to view this link but its good info on why no one should take risks with worm infestations in horses
And this is a pic of roundworm inside the small intestine of a foal to show just how bad they can get


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Yeah, it is possible but not common. That's why I asked how they are being identified. Typically you will only see an adult horse with roundworms because there is an underlying condition that is compromising the immune system--insulin resistance, Cushing's, very poor nutrition, some sort of chronic condition. 

I have also seen where even veterinarians misidentified pinworms in feces as roundworms.


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

I don't know how similar pigs are to horses, but last year we had a pig that had roundworms. We found some in the pen and even hanging out of him. And the pig was only a few months old!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Roundworms in all species tend to be more of a problem for young animals.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Well then try Diatomaceous earth.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Diatomaceous earth works and it can even help horses in other ways! Wet or dry it works. There are many ways of using it you can feed it to them put it on the poop. Maybe the Diatomaceous earth did not works because you all did not try. A lot of deworming can cause Cushing disease. Diatomaceous earth is better for the horse!


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Once DE is wet the cutting properties are over. The insides of any critter are wet. It becomes nothing more than an expensive source of calcium. It kills by causing lots of little cuts and the bug then dries out. No drying inside a gut.

It is pretty much a full year before my horses will graze where they have pooped even if I pick it up before it rots away. If a horse was eating poop I'd be looking long and hard at it's nutrition.


----------



## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> A lot of deworming can cause Cushing disease. Diatomaceous earth is better for the horse!



And show some scientific research that proves that worming to much causes cushings.


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

I actually thought I might find something very useful here.. 
I kinda did.. easier to just do the usual every 6 months chemical deworming. 
Spring is Panacur, autumn is Ivecmetrin or whats its name... 
Then again - doing fecal counts this spring, to see what we might have there.. 

Also, after doing research, apparently there are natural methods too - they won't help when there are too many worms, and some always stay, it is natural.. but feeding all kinds of herbs can make the GIT unwelcome for all kinds of parasites. These herbs include red clover, pumpkin seeds, and lots of bitter tasting plants that I don't know the names in English for..


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

With good stable and pasture management practices worming should not need to be done more than twice a year once you have any infestations dealt with
Even if you keep a horse at a facility where there's a regular flow of new horses coming in a quarantine procedure will help control new parasite infections from starting up
Cushing's is not caused by wormers


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkLkfCVg9OA&t=107


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkLkfCVg9OA&t=107
> 
> I don't think we're talking about deworming DAILY.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

He mentions excessive use - specifically the now outdated use of daily de-wormers not the now prescribed use of wormers used in conjunction with fecal tests - or blood tests and in the UK now also a saliva test for tapeworm
The links between extreme dietary stress and Cushings are still vague - but a high worm burden could do it - so why risk using something that research does not support as being effective?
If you want to educate yourself Shedding Light on Cushing's Disease and Laminitis | eurodressage


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Luv equins said:


> A lot of deworming can cause Cushing disease. Diatomaceous earth is better for the horse!


I would love to see the research to back this up. Sorry, not buying it.


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

jaydee said:


> The links between extreme dietary stress and Cushings are still vague - but a high worm burden could do it - so why risk using something that research does not support as being effective?
> If you want to educate yourself Shedding Light on Cushing's Disease and Laminitis | eurodressage


What "link between extreme dietary stress and Cushing"? Dewormers, a high parasite burden and diet do not cause Cushing's disease. Cushing's disease leads to a need for changes in diet and in a likely need for increased deworming. Not the other way around.


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

He probably doesn't think you should vaccinate kids against measles either.

He's selling supplements so I'd take anything he has to say with a grain of salt.


----------



## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkLkfCVg9OA&t=107


And we aren't talking about daily deworming here,so proves nothing.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

You don't need to give DE very day.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

DE works and it's the best stuff around!


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Luv equins said:


> DE works and it's the best stuff around!


Prove it!

Show us some scientific research in control tests that prove it.


----------



## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Foxhunter said:


> Prove it!
> 
> Show us some scientific research in control tests that prove it.


Luv equins can't prove it. There's no scientific research on it,if like all his/her post you wont get any proof of anything.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Ryle said:


> *What "link between extreme dietary stress and Cushing*"? Dewormers, a high parasite burden and diet do not cause Cushing's disease. Cushing's disease leads to a need for changes in diet and in a likely need for increased deworming. Not the other way around.


There are a few sources that believe there is a link between dietary and physical 'stress' and Cushings
Quote from this link
Health Categories - Metabolic Chaos - Role of Diet in Cushingâ€™s in Horses
_This series of articles highlights the metabolic chaos being caused in our horses by feeding feeds they were not designed to eat. High NSC feeds can cause Insulin Resistance, which in turn causes elevated levels of the stress hormone cortisol. Not all Cushing’s horses are IR and not all IR horses have Cushing’s, however there are many horses suffering from both._
And this one
Nutrition Considerations for Cushings Disease | The Equine Nutrition Nerd
Plenty of articles out there
The thinking behind them is vague - it relies really on whether or not diet and physical stress can result in the sort of mental stress that affects cortisol production


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Any of the holistic horse med pages that are worth anything are talking about feeding 5oz of DE for 60 - 90 days straight. That's a lot of chalk to suffer through.

Ivermectin was once a "natural" drug. It was originally formulated from a mold or fungus. I can't remember it's name. Forgive my brain for getting old.

With the exception of dogs with collie breeding or blood ivermectin is pretty darn safe. You almost have to be an idiot to overdose it.


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Streptomyces

Knew I could find it.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

Yes - It's from a 'bacterium' called Streptomyces avermitilis 
Its routinely used to treat parasitic infections in humans as well - it's playing a major role in fighting 'river blindness', lymphatic filariasis and onchocerciasis


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Back to the OP's question. Anything that really kills worm egss in the soil or manure. Not well, not really. Cleaning up a smaller paddock. Composting the manure in a good hot pile. 
Sunlight...desication does more than freezing cold temps. Wet cold temps just kind of kick the eggs into stasis.

The AG lime helps. When you radically change the pH around a tiny thing like a egg or larval parasite its going to effect them. Anything stronger and it's going to be a problem for the horse.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

I hope the DE works! It works for me and my horses! I never hurts to try natural organic stuff. Good luck stand up! I hope it works!


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Luv equins said:


> I hope the DE works! It works for me and my horses! I never hurts to try natural organic stuff. Good luck stand up! I hope it works!


If it doesn't work ~it hurts.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

natisha said:


> If it doesn't work ~it hurts.


Yea if you do all the stuff yall do. It hurts.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Luv equins said:


> Yea if you do all the stuff yall do. It hurts.


In case you're ever sick check this out


https://youtu.be/wZ40XiEEnt4


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

natisha said:


> In case you're ever sick check this out
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/wZ40XiEEnt4


:shock: That was just .......... weird. I was left confused. :? XD

:hide:


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

I think I'll go back to watching my space alien movie now.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Roman said:


> :shock: That was just .......... weird. I was left confused. :? XD
> 
> :hide:


Sorry about that.:wink:


----------



## rookie (May 14, 2012)

We had a mare that was a big worm carrier. We would run fecal egg counts and she would come back high positives for strongyles and the occasional round worm. We ended up using two products three egg counts before we got a handle on it. She just was sensitive to them and was probably the one who was spreading the parasites to the rest of the herd (the Typhoid Mary if you will). The best thing you can do is pasture rotation and egg counts, deworming if necessary and than egg count again three weeks later to see if the product was effective. The exception is that once a year they should get prazquantel (spelling?) to take out tape worms which won't show up on an egg count. 

Diatomaceous earth is used in organic toothpaste and is actually the fossilized remains of ancient shelled algae. The silica (makes up quartz and is a huge component in most clays) that makes it up is what gives it an abrasive ability which is why its used in cleaning and toothpaste. Its benefit is as a scrubbing product not as a blocking agent. Its use is in its mechanical ability but its not a particularly hard substance that would be capable of slicing anything other than maybe a bacterial slime. It is mined out of the ground in a few areas. Since it is fairly common in certain areas and those areas definitely have parasites living in them its use as the sole control for parasites is somewhat limited in efficiency. Its very popular among folks who wish to pursue a organic/pesticide free life. The problem being that it has limited suggested efficiency. Lets be honest, if it was an effective parasite control wouldn't companies like pfizer and bayer be buying it up like mad and actually controlling the mining areas? Wouldn't they be spending thousands on marketing it the same way they do for things like dog food and dog collars?


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

natisha said:


> Sorry about that.:wink:


:lol: It was just interesting how they seemed to cut the person open with their fingers, wipe with a towel, and bam, nothing there.


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

It works fairly well on slugs and aphids. Not sure if it's killing or merely repelling them. Either way once there is rain or even a heavy dew it quits working.

It is high enough in lime where it will set back sensitive plants. Siberian irises will pretty much quit blooming for 2 or 3 years if you use it on them. Many other acid soil loving plants object.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Roman said:


> :lol: It was just interesting how they seemed to cut the person open with their fingers, wipe with a towel, and bam, nothing there.


That's because they did nothing except give false hope (& take money from usually desperate people). They make people second guess their logical reasoning. They don't care about who they claim to be helping & they don't care about facts. They have their own agenda=money.

Luv Equins does the same thing, though I have no idea what the agenda may be. She/he comes on threads where people have a legitimate question or concern & (I'll use 'she' for ease of typing) she states what she does, which is fine. She's free to ignore science & do what she wants with her animals.

What is not fine is how she tells others that they don't love their animals, are hurting them, killing them etc. New people or someone desperate for answers then start to second guess their own logic, hoping to do the right thing. She likes to try to scare people into her way of thinking, maybe to justify what she does or doesn't do. That puts her on the same level as the Faith Healer.

But what I really hate is how she gets good informative threads closed after people get fed up with her nonsense.


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

Luv equins said:


> Yea if you do all the stuff yall do. It hurts.


I would like to think that your heart is absolutely in the right place. 

And I'm a fan of natural methods. I'm reading about DE + horses right now in several other tabs, because of your post.

I think you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar, to be honest. Your signature for example... you know what is bad for horses? *Carrying humans on their backs.* Talk about _*unnatural.*_ Yet you ride... you were asking about a saddle blanket, I remember. 

I love seeing posts here that are natural orientated, as it is not exactly dominant in this forum. But when you drop bombs like "blankets are bad for horses" (not always true!) and "if your horse has hay or grass it doesn't need its' teeth floated" (not always true!), and then wander off, people pay little heed to you.

And it's hard for the rest of us who are in fact not fond of medications, and bits, and various other "widely accepted" equestrian standbys. We say something, and we're immediately thought of as crackpots. :-|


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

:-|

So my DH walks in... now you should know: he's WAY more earthy than me. And I'm pretty earthy. But he puts the crunch in crunchy. So I say "I'm reading about DE for deworming horses..." and he just *looks* at me. ...pregnant pause... finally says "Yeah and scratches the hell out of everything in the process!"

So yeah... I'll keep reading, but I'm thinking that whole idea may be nipped in the bud, now.  I'll have to show him this page I'm reading where the author says he consumes two teaspoons a day...


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

natisha said:


> In case you're ever sick check this out
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/wZ40XiEEnt4


What??????


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

I do not see how psychic healing has anything to do with this! 

The one thing I will say about this form of healing is, along with many clairvoyants, there are charlatans, however there are some that do have a power to heal through their hands. I will PM you on an experience I had with a healer amd a horse.

Nothing we say or prove will convince Luvequins to change their mind. 
The fact that she has obviously never seen a horse ode of tetanus, be severely ill with equine flu, crippled because it has poor feet and cannot be worked without shoes.
Never seen horses stood for days on end shivering in the wind and rain refusing to move away from what little shelter that have to eat their hay.
Does not realise that in the wild most horses die younger than those in captivity because they starve, their teeth being so sharp their mouths are shredded.

The fact that there is no scientific offered to back their utterances says a lot.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

DE is better for horses then bad dewormers. DE is good stuff and it works. Hope this helps!


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> DE is better for horses then bad dewormers. DE is good stuff and it works. Hope this helps!


Please educate us on why you believe DE is better than deworming a horse at least 2x a year. Your "video" was about people who deworm DAILY and not twice a year. 

I would much rather give my horse an apple flavored dewormer orally that takes only 5min than spreading DE all over and feeding my horse its poop which could take 30+ min and then try to convince my horse he needs to eat his poop. >.> 

And who knows how much a bag (I guess?) of DE costs, probably not $3 like a simple and SO easy dewormer tube cost or a powder form of dewormer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Roman said:


> Please educate us on why you believe DE is better than deworming a horse at least 2x a year. Your "video" was about people who deworm DAILY and not twice a year.
> 
> I would much rather give my horse an apple flavored dewormer orally that takes only 5min than spreading DE all over and feeding my horse its poop which could take 30+ min and then try to convince my horse he needs to eat his poop. >.>
> 
> ...


 You can get 10 pounds for like 20 bucks. LOL then try to convince my horse he needs to eat his poop! That so funny!


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Worming Horses Naturally | Becky's Homestead

You don't need to worm then every day.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Luv equins said:


> Worming Horses Naturally | Becky's Homestead
> 
> You don't need to worm then every day.


deworm


----------



## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> Worming Horses Naturally | Becky's Homestead
> 
> You don't need to worm then every day.



Still no scientific proof it really works. I'll stay with my paste wormers lots easier and effective. Have a mare who's 29 been worming her, with the chemicals for all theses years still alive and healthy.:wink:


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Here are articles all written by DVMs. And homesteading Becky has a degree in what?

http://equusmagazine.com/article/diatomaceous-earth-dewormer-15880

Diatomaceous Earth (DE) for Flea Control

Diatomaceous Earth - Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth Health Benefits

American Association of Equine Practitioners

Horse Owner FAQs Â« Eggzamin - Horse Worm Questions


Once it's wet it doesn't work.


----------



## 4hoofbeat (Jun 27, 2013)

Luv equins said:


> DE works and it's the best stuff around!


I've heard it shouldn't be fed to horses, as it can cause Sand colic like symptoms.


----------



## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

someone should do a survey as to what the forum uses to deworm. Type of wormer, times per year and approx. cost. 3 times a year, paste, less than $25 per horse.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

DE works for me. It's very good stuff. It's work and it does not hurt. Love it.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Luv equins said:


> DE works for me. It's very good stuff. It's work and it does not hurt. Love it.


So you've said, too many times.


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Y'all said bad about DE to many times!


----------



## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> Worming Horses Naturally | Becky's Homestead
> 
> You don't need to worm then every day.



From sueNH post with links you need to feed DE for 60 to 90 days at a 1/2 cup to a cup a day. Sorry i'am not doing that to much hassle plus my horses don't need hard feed daily. With the amount of feed i'd need to get them to eat it they'd be fatter then pigs by end of 60 days. 

I don't see that this becky gal has a degree in anything,looks like some ordinary horse owner that likes natural stuff.:wink:


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

What wrong with it??? Try it help someone and their horse?? Whats wrong with DE?? It works! I guess you yall just don't want to try to take good healthy care of your horses!!


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

jazzy475 said:


> From sueNH post with links you need to feed DE for 60 to 90 days at a 1/2 cup to a cup a day. Sorry i'am not doing that to much hassle plus my horses don't need hard feed daily. With the amount of feed i'd need to get them to eat it they'd be fatter then pigs by end of 60 days.
> 
> I don't see that this becky gal has a degree in anything,looks like some ordinary horse owner that likes natural stuff.:wink:


You don't need to feed it every day!


----------



## jazzy475 (Sep 18, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> You don't need to feed it every day!


Whatever i give up... iv said all i'am going to say i'am done with this thread..:wave:


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> You can get 10 pounds for like 20 bucks. LOL then try to convince my horse he needs to eat his poop! That so funny!


Why waste $20 when I can spend $3 on a dewormer tube 2x a year totaling to about $6 or $8. 

And my horse will totally go and eat his poop on his own. My pasture is spotless of poo because the horse goes and eats his droppings and the cow pies. Mhmm. Guess nobody has to clean the pasture now! And now we'll have to race against the horse to get the manure first in order to save it as fertilizer. Oh boy....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Roman said:


> Why waste $20 when I can spend $3 on a dewormer tube 2x a year totaling to about $6 or $8.
> 
> And my horse will totally go and eat his poop on his own. My pasture is spotless of poo because the horse goes and eats his droppings and the cow pies. Mhmm. Guess nobody has to clean the pasture now! And now we'll have to race against the horse to get the manure first in order to save it as fertilizer. Oh boy....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well then maybe look into give you horse more grass or hay and nutrition.


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> Well then maybe look into give you horse more grass or hay and nutrition.


He has grass 24/7 and also hay 24/7. Not seeing what you mean really?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

If you horse is eating his poop he need better nutrition.


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> If you horse is eating his poop he need better nutrition.


I am sarcastic......

You are saying that you should feed a horse poop. >.>
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Nutritional deficiencies--not enough of certain vitamins and minerals--can certainly cause a horse to eat feces. 

Roman, are you providing a vitamin/mineral supplement to your horse? If not, that's a good place to start.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I don't think for one minute that Roman's horse eats all its own poop!!!


----------



## Cherrij (Jan 30, 2013)

Luv equins said:


> What wrong with it??? Try it help someone and their horse?? Whats wrong with DE?? It works! I guess you yall just don't want to try to take good healthy care of your horses!!


I don't even want to count, but you are getting on my nerves. All your posts are ignorant of everyone else, just seeing that they post something "negative" about DE. Well, those are posts with scientific research that shows that DE is not the miracle drug. Miracle drugs do not exist.. really... 

I am taking the best care of my horse, who lives 24/7 outside, with good shelter, free choice hay, free choice pasture, mineral and vitamin supplements, different herbs and spices to help and keep his insides very healthy.. but yes, I still use chemical dewormers because I have yet to find all the right combination for holistic care for him, not to have to use them, but even then, we never know which worms stayed in, and which got out.. unless I do fecal counts like all the time. .

I know a case where an adult horse ate some poop of his buddy's. The owner, and 2 vets brushed it off and said nothing is wrong. BUT - foals eat their mother's poop to get the good bacteria they need and so on.. So I guess the horse had a reason to eat some poop (this was outside the paddock, on a random field). This has not repeated, at least nobody has seen it..


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

jaydee said:


> I don't think for one minute that Roman's horse eats all its own poop!!!


Thank you for seeing sarcasm! :lol:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Luv equins (Oct 10, 2014)

Roman said:


> I am sarcastic......
> 
> You are saying that you should feed a horse poop. >.>
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are saying you do not your give your horse enough nutrition


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

*MOD NOTE
Can we please go back to giving advice on the OP's question
Luv Equins - I think you have made your point now that you like to use DE - enough is enough thank you.*


----------



## Roman (Jun 13, 2014)

Luv equins said:


> You are saying you do not your give your horse enough nutrition


No, you are saying to feed horse's their poop.

But back to the OP, I would call your local Ag Extension agent if you have one and ask them. Or ask a vet. Otherwise you'll probably have to clean the pasture once a week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

jaydee said:


> MOD NOTE
> Can we please go back to giving advice on the OP's question
> Luv Equins - I think you have made your point now that you like to use DE - enough is enough thank you.


Just in case Luv Equins didn't see this.


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Sorry, I'm so tired today I missed the sarcasm, Roman.

As for cleaning paddocks to minimize parasite contamination, it really needs to be done every couple of days not weekly.


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

On 1 acre I would do it daily - a mini could live on half an acre if it was poo picked and fed hay to make up for any lack of grass, that way the other half of its pasture could used for rotation to help break the life cycle of the worms


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

Ryle said:


> Sorry, I'm so tired today I missed the sarcasm, Roman.
> 
> As for cleaning paddocks to minimize parasite contamination, it really needs to be done every couple of days not weekly.


So my mare has two settings. One is a dry lot pen, with a stall - she spends approx. 12 hours there (nighttime). I clean *that* every single day, of course. Then she has a field paddock. We physically move this (metal panels) every 5 to 7 days, around the large meadow. I do NOT scoop that. I go and spread the piles out thin, to let them breakdown in the sun and rain (they breakdown really quickly, for what it's worth).

Should I handle the paddock poo differently? (I should repeat, she's around that poo for 5 to 7 days, before she's moved.)


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

If I have horses on a large acreage then I don't mind chain harrowing the muck to spread it around if as birds and other bugs will eat the larvae when exposed and the horses still have plenty of space to graze that's muck free
On a small area even moving the pen regularly I would remove all the muck daily because its easy to do and reduces worm larvae a lot better. The eggs can survive really well in most weather conditions and the larvae don't like hot and dry but are quite happy in wet even when its hot


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

jaydee said:


> If I have horses on a large acreage then I don't mind chain harrowing the muck to spread it around if as birds and other bugs will eat the larvae when exposed and the horses still have plenty of space to graze that's muck free
> On a small area even moving the pen regularly I would remove all the muck daily because its easy to do and reduces worm larvae a lot better. The eggs can survive really well in most weather conditions and the larvae don't like hot and dry but are quite happy in wet even when its hot


Will do. One more thing though, the birds do pick at them constantly, should I still fret, or do you suspect they have a handle on it? And she never nibbles her waste. The only time that happened was after the birth of her second foal some years ago, and I clearly needed to compensate her diet with extra vitamins and minerals.

Anyway, I can definitely clean it if I need to.  Always happy to have a legitimate excuse to spend more time with her. :wink:


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Luv equins said:


> I hope the DE works! It works for me and my horses! I never hurts to try natural organic stuff. Good luck stand up! I hope it works!


It's foolish to believe that just because something is 'natural' or organic that it cannot hurt you. There are many naturally occurring poisons, and things like herbs can be overdosed on and cause interactions just like man made drugs. 

There is nothing natural about a horse consuming large amounts of DE on a daily basis. In this case I don't believe it will do any harm unless you're counting on it keeping down the worm load and are not running FECs to ensure that they're low.

Just because you get negative or low FECs does not mean your deworming protocol is effective (in that it will work for any other horse). My horse has never had any eggs show up on a FEC, despite less than ideal conditions at times. He's a naturally low shedder. If I started feeding him DE, his negative FEC would not be evidence that DE works.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

The birds will do a decent job of eating larvae as will dung beetles but the time you spend spreading it around so it breaks down faster you might as well be picking it up and removing it
If you want a good tool for that job then look at these from Shires Equestrian USA - I could not manage without mine!!!
Manure Scoop Set


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

jaydee said:


> The birds will do a decent job of eating larvae as will dung beetles but the time you spend spreading it around so it breaks down faster you might as well be picking it up and removing it
> If you want a good tool for that job then look at these from Shires Equestrian USA - I could not manage without mine!!!
> Manure Scoop Set


Ooooh... a pink pooper-scooper!  Makes my durafork look dull and lackluster. :lol:


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

If you are spreading feces in a pasture that horses are in, you are increasing the risk of parasite reinfection. Roundworm eggs don't dry out and can survive in soil for 10 years or more. Small strongyle eggs will hatch and then the larva have a limited lifespan, but it's not a matter of hours or days--it's a matter of weeks. 

Horses will have clean areas where they graze and other areas where they defecate. They will, if they have the option, not graze around feces and this is a natural method for preventing reinfection. By spreading feces when a horse is n the pasture, you take away their ability to stay away from eggs and infective larva. The parasite experts recommend that you ONLY spread feces on empty pastures if you are not composting it first and that horses remain off pastures for at least several weeks in really hot summers or several months when temperatures are moderate.


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

Please read this article specifically on pasture management for parasite control
Pasture Management for Parasite Control | TheHorse.com


----------



## mred (Jan 7, 2015)

Hard to keep horses off that long. I spread (drag) about twice a year. Large pasture. They generally don't eat in the same areas. I try to always deworm. I don't see using dewormers every few months a problem. And I am not sure anyone is going to get all of the worms. As said they may stay in the ground for a long time.


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

Ryle said:


> If you are spreading feces in a pasture that horses are in, you are increasing the risk of parasite reinfection. Roundworm eggs don't dry out and can survive in soil for 10 years or more. Small strongyle eggs will hatch and then the larva have a limited lifespan, but it's not a matter of hours or days--it's a matter of weeks.
> 
> Horses will have clean areas where they graze and other areas where they defecate. They will, if they have the option, not graze around feces and this is a natural method for preventing reinfection. By spreading feces when a horse is n the pasture, you take away their ability to stay away from eggs and infective larva. The parasite experts recommend that you ONLY spread feces on empty pastures if you are not composting it first and that horses remain off pastures for at least several weeks in really hot summers or several months when temperatures are moderate.


Well, that makes perfect logical sense, now that I think about it.


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

Oh, I should say that I never spread the poo, in her pen. It remains whole, until her pen moves. Then I spread. To date, it has yet to be in the same space twice. But of course... that will eventually change. So although I will def begin scooping now, I just wanting to make it clear that I wasn't spreading her poo in her pen! Just in case you thought I was a total dunderhead. Only a partial... ;-)


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

LOL We all start out not knowing and parasite life cycles aren't typically on the top of anyone's list


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

To everyone seeking natural methods of a dewormer. Please check out Omega Alpha Para-X. I had been using the recommended course of dewormers for my area for years and cleaning my pasture etc.. shortly after doing ivermectin I decided to try para-x. I actually saw live worms in my horses manure. 

Chemical wormers do not kill off the live worms. They just get rid of the eggs.

Para-x is natural and it causes the horses system to become alkaline so the live worms let go and shed out of their systems as the horses digestive tract is no lo ger a hospitibal environment for them.

You do it every 3 months and it keeps a consisten alkaline level in their body.

My vet recommends it. And there have been studies done by UPEI showing how effective it is.

I have yet to have a positive fecal count come back since switching to parax. I also use it on my dogs and myself. My older mare has kept weight on much easier since switching as well. I swear by it.

I don't have time to link to articles but there is stuff out there to support how well it works.

Sorry for typos.. my tablet is brutal to post from sometimes lol


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Another good thing for breaking worming cycles is to have other animals graze the area. 

I would put cattle in longish growth fields, followed by the horses and then sheep. 

Not possible for most.


----------



## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

NBEventer said:


> To everyone seeking natural methods of a dewormer. Please check out Omega Alpha Para-X. I had been using the recommended course of dewormers for my area for years and cleaning my pasture etc.. shortly after doing ivermectin I decided to try para-x. I actually saw live worms in my horses manure.
> 
> Chemical wormers do not kill off the live worms. They just get rid of the eggs.
> 
> ...


I think you have that backwards. Dewormers kill the worms, not the eggs. Then the eggs hatch continuing the cycle.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

natisha said:


> I think you have that backwards. Dewormers kill the worms, not the eggs. Then the eggs hatch continuing the cycle.


Yes sorry about that lol. That's what I get for posting in a rush and not paying attention lol. The parax does expel the eggs though and the adults just keep passing through and don't attach to the digestive tract.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Also I was just reading an older thread on here where people were skeptical. Omega Alpha products have undergone clinical trials. They are used on many Olympic level horses with success. 

Recently another product, regenereq underwent a trial and proven to be more effective at treating equine ulcers then omeprezol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm intrigued. But I wonder what the negative effects of having a more alkaline system, might be???


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Well it's safer then DE by far lol. But on a serious note I asked my vet and he says it's safe. The fact it's safe for dogs, cats, rabbits and even humans is enough for me. 

I know people who have been using it since it first came out and have yet to have any issues and never had any positive fecal counts come back. I've been using it a year now with positive results. Both my horses lick it out of the syringe.

I will never dump chemical dewormers down my horses again. The fact they are dangerous to humans and other animals freaks me out and that you need to keep your dogs away from the barn for awhile after using chemical dewormers in case they eat the manure with the chemicals is scary. I've had multiple vets tell me to not let dogs eat the manure of a recently dewormed horse because of the chemicals. And Ftr no I'm not one of those chrunchy people who thinks big pharma is evil and anti vaccines lol. I do use modern medicine and vaccinate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Ivermectin is routinely given to humans for worm problems.


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Omega Alpha sounds interesting. 
Would it be effective against lungworm or heartwarming? 
What about encrypted worms?


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

encysted like what strongyles do.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Ingredients and functions:

Quisqualis Indica - Eliminates and paralyses roundworms

Torreya Grandis - Eliminates and paralyses tapeworms, pinworms, hook worms and roundworms

Arecha Catechu - Eliminates tapeworms, roundworms, blood flukes and fasciolopis

Dryopteris Crassirhizoma - Eliminates and paralyses tapeworms, pinworms, hookworms, roundworms and liver flukes

Cucurbita Moschata (Pumpkin Seeds) - Eliminates young schistosomes and other intestinal parasites

Allium Sativum (Garlic) - Eliminates amoebas, tapeworms and hookworms
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

The Chicken Chick®: The Truth About Chickens, Pumpkin Seeds & Worms

I do give my horses and when I had them, chickens some pumpkins and squash every year at the end of the gardening season. Not a big hit with the horses. The chickens loved it. When my donkey was alive he was the punkin muncher.


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Garlic is not good for horses. It's on the do not feed lists.

Dyropteris is a fern used in Asian medicine.
Dryopteris (Wood Fern, Guan Zhong)

Areca is the Betel nut palm. Highly addictive, carcinogenic and dangerous.

Torreya is an Asian conifer. Mostly sold as an antioxident in health food stores but some old Chinese medicine does mention it for worms.
Torreya Seed - ENaturalHealthCenter.com (e2121.com)
Interesting claims. If it worked it would be a super food.

I wouldn't feed that to anything.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Yet there is "dangerous" chemicals in vaccines and we vaccinate.

Yes fed in high volumes and alone things can be dangerous. My horses love their parax and I have yet to hear any negative effects.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I will see if I can get my friend to comment on here, she knows the product inside and out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## verona1016 (Jul 3, 2011)

Something like Para-X does sound interesting- but it's not something I would give to my horse without seeing independent studies confirming its efficacy and long term safety.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

Ok so my source is making an account to join and post more but this is what she offered in the mean time. 

It is a broad spectrum intestinal cleanse. It works by changing the gut and blood ph as well as paralyzingly the pest so they leave live. No parasitic die off. No toxic pesticide load to the liver. Also clears lung and live fluke. 100% backed. And do not have to rotate wormers. No pesticide resistance. It changes the environment and makes it hostile to the pest. No side effects and 100% natural ingredients.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

So, this natural dewormer that is supposed to make the horse's system alkaline really doesn't pass the science test either. The body has a system that maintains it's acid-base balance that includes compensatory systems so something that is supposed work by making the body too alkaline for parasites just really doesn't seem feasible.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm very likely missing a lot of info which is why I asked my friend to join and explain it better 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Foxhunter (Feb 5, 2012)

Darn auto correct!


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Nothing to smile about: Asia's deadly addiction to betel nuts - CNN.com

How Dangerous is the Betel Nut

The problem with these natural extracts is you have no idea what is really in them. The active ingredient can vary from one plant strain to the next. It can vary depending on the weather and soil conditons and husbandry practices.

It can vary greatly depending if the active ingredient was boiled out, soaked out. Was alcohol or ether used? Was the extracting done in an open vat or a pressure cooker? Was the plant grown in Java, Yemen or Vietnam? Was it a wild grove or a cultivated grove? It all makes a difference.

The effects of methanolic, chloroform, and ethylacetate extracts of the Cucurbita pepo L. on the delay type hypersensitivity and antibody production

Which curcubit was actually used? There are literally thousands of strains of squashes and gourds and most are closely related enough where they cross readily and any seeds saved are not going to be the same as the parent plant. The reason some squashes aren't grown for food is because the alkaloid they produce is so strong they taste terrible and some strong enough to cause serious stomach upset.

It's a bit of a hobby of mine knowing what the plants I have on hand here can and can't do. Some plants are down right dangerous to mess with. Betel nut would be one of those I wouldn't touch if it was warm enough to grow here.

If the concoction was strong enough to radically change the pH of a horse gut it would radically effect the good flora and fauna needed in a horses gut as well. The outer layer of the parasite is tough enough to withstand a constant bath in very strong stomach acid. A simple extract isn't going to do much. I don't doubt that it takes out a few worms that were already dying of old age but it isn't going to take out the bulk of them. The worms are just too tough. If it could work then horses would be worming themselves every time they spend more than a few moments on a salt lick.

Hain Celestial faces lawsuit over â€˜100% naturalâ€™ teas and pesticides

Do You Know What's Really In Your Tea?

You really don't know what is in these "natural" products. Even things packaged for human consumption aren't immune. Nobody is checking.

However if you buy a tube of wormer and it labeled 1.87% ivermectin barring any machine glitches it is just that. The production pharmacies are checked regularly.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/23/whats-in-your-green-tea/?_r=0

So what is really in that jug?


----------



## rookie (May 14, 2012)

Exactly SueNH these questions and more are why I regard such neutriceuticals and supplements with not a whole lot of trust. Its a placebo effect because everyone believes it works so it appears to work. Anything that changes the acid/base balance of an animal enough to kill another animal (parasite) is probably going to cause significant damage to the host animal. Bad things happen when we change the acid/base balance of a body.


----------



## NBEventer (Sep 15, 2012)

It doesn't kill the parasites. It makes it so they keep going right through the horse. Seeing as more and more vets are using this product, studies from the major vet school, UPEI have been done showing its effectiveness and I have never had a positive fecal count come back. I don't know how it has a placebo effect. And my vet who has been my horses vet her entire 22 years of life said she has never looked better since switching her. The horse who once had a hard time keeping weight on is now an easy keeper. But of course the horse is having a placebo effect. Because she knows what the stuff im giving her is supposed to do.

If you want to keep pumping your horse with chemicals that is your choice. I chose to use a product that has been backed by studies and veterinary recommended. 

Omega Alpha is gvmt regulated as they also make human products and being in Canada they have far stricter guidelines to follow then the US.


----------



## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Betel nuts and their products are banned in Canada and the US. So I have to wonder who's checking.

The plant is dangerous.


----------



## Sugar (Jan 30, 2015)

SueNH said:


> Garlic is not good for horses. It's on the do not feed lists.
> 
> Dyropteris is a fern used in Asian medicine.
> Dryopteris (Wood Fern, Guan Zhong)
> ...


:shock:


----------



## Ryle (Jul 13, 2007)

NBEventer, can you post links to the study?


----------



## jaydee (May 10, 2012)

I'm curious because garlic in reasonable amounts won't stun or kill anything especially tapeworm and if fed in high amounts would be harmful to the horse


----------

