# 7 yr old quater horse critique request.



## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

Her muscling pattern looks typical of barrels racers .she is well muscled overall. But has a large under neck muscle, which is not desirable . She does not look wormy to me. At all.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

This horse needs to be taught how to move in a more rounded frame. Her overall appearance gives the impression she's often high headed. If she knows the pattern and does it well, there's no need to practice it but work on getting her to move in the correct frame. This also helps prevent them from getting barrel sour.


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## Regula (Jan 23, 2012)

Agreed. Her neck looks like she might be bracing against a tie down. 

You get hind end muscles by working the hind end. Many QH have quite a lot of muscle naturally and are front heavy. Yours actually looks quite balanced and not butt-high, so she might have a easier time stepping under and swinging through the back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

you don't NEED to change her muscling, certainly not for Barrel Racing. but, she is a very nice looking horse, and with a change in her riding style/habit, she would lose that fat under neck muscle and gain more upper neck muscle, and really look the stunner.


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## kricket (Apr 1, 2015)

Thank y'all for the advice, what is the best way for her to be more round? She does ride with her head high.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kricket (Apr 1, 2015)

Saddlebag said:


> This horse needs to be taught how to move in a more rounded frame. Her overall appearance gives the impression she's often high headed. If she knows the pattern and does it well, there's no need to practice it but work on getting her to move in the correct frame. This also helps prevent them from getting barrel sour.


How could I get her into a rounder frame?


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

well, it depends on what sort of riding you do. what sort of tack, too. I just don't see how anyone can ever teach a horse to move in a 'rounder' frame while barrel racing. barrel racing is all about accelerating as fast as you can, and while the rider has to be balanaced and not interfere with the horse, it seems to me that in most ways , you let the horse have their head about where they want it to be.

however, the way horses accelerate, stop, accelerate rapidly like in barrel racing, and them using the tie down, all seem to contribute to moving with a high head. if the horse gets really hot, and you end up pulling back on the reins, up will go the the head, right?

do you do much riding that is not barrel racing oriented? what sort of tack are you using? bit, and such.


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## kricket (Apr 1, 2015)

I do move cattle with her some days, then other we trot. Right now I have a Jr. Cowhorse dog bone bit with a tie down. That's is extremely loose, its there just in case she pops her head up to high.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

I would like to start off by disagreeing with the statement about her muscling not needing to change for barrel racing. There is a difference between an average backyard barrel racer and a horseman barrel racer. If you want to be good, and you want to be a horseman, you will want to address the roundness issue.

I do really like your horse though. She looks like a really well balanced and athletic sort, which I am fond of.

I would first ride without the tie down for a while. Put on some split reins and go into horseman mode.

Does she know how to yield to pressure and put her head down when you ask? If she does, I would start there at the walk/trot and really focus on encouraging that yield to pressure - But here's the important part, you have to drive her forward with your legs at the same time. 

A lot of barrel horses tend to travel like this because they are never taught better, this I disagree with.










I like to see one travel more purposefully, and using their body like a cow horse. The cow horse is the epitome of western horse athleticism, because they are literally using all of their body, all of the time. A barrel horse is not much different, as they need to be able to engage themselves. Plenty of barrel racers DO get around with their head in the air, and they do manage to clock alright, but you don't want to just be "ok" out there - You want to win!

Here are some photos of what I would consider a really nice barrel horse frame.


















Both of these horses are stood up straight in their shoulders, driving underneath themselves with their hind end, and are rounded up. The reason this is important is because when the head is up, the hind end and back cannot properly engage. Not only this but it leads to the muscle problem which will eventually inhibit your horse ability to use her neck/shoulders to turn as she needs to. It will lead to stiffness and soreness down the road in her career.

Just some food for thought!


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## tinyliny (Oct 31, 2009)

while I love those pictures of horses well ridden, I have not seen such images of horses actually doing barrels. it will undoubtedly help the hrose to learn to travel less inverted and more balanced, but once barrel racing starts, you wont' see that nice round look. At least i haven't seen it in the many photos of barrel racing I've seen.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

It is hard to catch to someone not accustomed to watching high speed, high drive animals Tiny - But it is not always about that.

A horse is not going to go dressage canter in perfect frame around the barrels. They just aren't. But that does not mean the body control, drive, and collection do not come into play - A horse who is taught to run barrels without the collections, roundness, etc will run around cross firing, dropping or switching leads, shouldering in, he might run stiff or over flexed, kick his hip out, exaggerate his ribcage, what have you. Basically anything that could go wrong, could happen when a horse is not taught to properly round up in training. You may run, you may turn, you may even clock and win somewhere - But you'll never be more competitive than an average rider on the pattern. 

Now, look at Sherry Cervi. Her horses run like mad - But you bet they are broke. Watch her slow work one and you'll see it. She has total body control and no matter what happens, that horse goes around the barrel rounded up - No matter what speed.

Shoulder up, hip in, inside leg up under them - Continuing forward motion while using themselves and maintaining some drive.










Now this horse I'm gonna show now is one who I am quickly becoming a huge fan of. This is Brittany Pozzi's horse, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. She currently holds the world record on a standard pattern. This particular photo gives you a different angle - Look at that inside hock. That doesn't come from letting one practice strung out and goofy - It comes from teaching them to round up and use themselves.










And when these horses are running home, you don't usually see one with their head up in the air. You might see one a little elevated, but none of them are gonna giraffe up on you. Why? Because they've been taught to run flat. Flat means using your body too. Flat means pushing off with as much power as you can get from your "engine" (The hind end) and propelling yourself forward. I suppose I can see why you may not consider this "collection", but it certainly does have to start that way. Can't teach a horse to run by just being goofy, it will slow you down. They have to run with purpose. 

Look at these horses. Not a one of them has dropped a lead or stopped using themselves in any of these photos.




























And that's hard to do. People like to pretend it's as easy as kicking and spurring, and pulling real hard until the horse figures out "we're supposed to turn here", but it's not. If you really want to be competitive, you have to train like mad and you have to be a horseman. You have to round them up, you have to teach them to use themselves, you have to teach them to be broke and responsive but at the same time be willing to put up with mistakes - Because let's face it, running at 40mph, eventually one of you is going to screw up. To get one that broke takes time, and a lot of it - A year to get them broke, a year to pattern, another two years or so of just seasoning and adding speed - And maybe, just maybe at the end of that you'll have a horse broke enough and who understands their body well enough to run. Then after that, you have to be sure they stay honest - Some will start to cheat and lose themselves. So even then you're still rounding them up and reminding them to stand up straight, drive from behind, lift their shoulders and back, and bend that ribcage.


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## LittleBayMare (Jun 2, 2014)

^^Can I like this post 50 more times? :loveshower:
That's why so many of the barrel racers in my area think I'm crazy for cross training in dressage. They're all convinced that I've given up on barrel racing and they don't have to worry about me coming back and opening a can of whoop a$$ on them once I (and my _dressage_ trainer) feel my mare is ready. :lol:

It's sad to see how far the sport has fallen, particularly in the amateur ranks. 

OP, as a fellow barrel racer, I agree. Get rid of the tie down (if you are using one) and focus on slow work, particularly long and low. I think you will find that, properly executed, that one exercise will do your horse wonders. I also find that walking up and down hills also does great things too because walking is actually the hardest gait to do on hills, so if you can get the horse to engage their back at the walk on hills you're golden. That will really teach your horse to use that hind end.


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## SorrelHorse (Apr 9, 2009)

Man I was never more successful than when I was working at Bar Eleven and my two running horses had to work all day. They were saddled dawn until dusk. They got an hour workout of their own and then were gathering cattle in the mountains, ponying colts, dragging calves, anything. Those horses got beefed up real quick, even the dainty little Selena was a tank by the end of it.


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