# Cougar? coyotes? or something else?



## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

Hope this is the right section for this.....if not, feel free to move it.

Has anyone in middle Tennessee seen or heard of cougars or other big cats around??

I live in middle Tennessee, about 12 miles out in the country. We have lots of wildlife out here, the usual animals such as rabbits, turkeys, etc. We also have a pack of coyotes, idk how many for sure but i have seen at least 3-4 at night. I have been told by neighbors that there are also cougar(s) out here. A neighbor around the corner showed me a pic on their phone of a track by their creek. However, ask Wildlife management and they swear there are none. 

I have a coming 3 yo colt. We often walk around the roads out here, and he has been well behaved if a bit 'prancey'. Nothing i would not expect from a young colt. Recently, he has been acting weird. He does not want to leave the yard and go on the road. He will shake and tremble, and stare across the road into the woods in the distance. He is looking toward the same area my neighbor took the pic of the track. He has seen coyotes before and still walked fine on the road, so i am inclined to think it is something different. I have also heard a noise that i cannot identify....sounds almost like 'help' but is clearly an animal call. If i can get it recorded when i hear it again i will upload it. 

Sorry for the long post, but i need to figure out what i am dealing with, and how to handle it best. If anyone has any input or any ??s i can clarify, I would appreciate the help.


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## Foxtail Ranch (Mar 10, 2012)

wow, this is interesting! I haven't much help, because I live in Oregon. My friends in Eastern Oregon did have a cougar near their house. They described its call as sounding like a woman calling "help."


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

I live in Northern California in the valley, during the summer the mountain lions and cougars come down from the mountains to the upper park, and sometimes even down to my house and barn. Mountain lions sound like a screaming child, and cougars sound like someone calling for help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morganarab94 (May 16, 2013)

Bobcats and cougars I think both sound like a woman screaming 'help'. So it could very possibly be that.


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## FlyGap (Sep 25, 2011)

Ha! Same out here, tell a wildlife officer you've even seen one and they'll laugh at you.

We've had several actual sightings. Our county is 90% national forest so it's likely. Back in the 90's after several were reported the NFS hired a "professional" tracker to investigate. He found nothing. My neighbors below me had seen one crossing the HWY at 5am on their way to work to drink from their creek, the guy never came up this far.

If you want to be taken seriously report your findings and suspicions as a probable cat that's been released. I wouldn't doubt it since its in a populated area or could be one searching for new territory and just passing through.
If you can leave flood lights on and pen a dog up outside to bark. When it's warm enough we leave our dogs penned up by the side door to bark at coyotes/bobcats/bears/hogs/etc, that and letting the dogs mark their territory has kept the wildlife at bay.

Hopefully if it is a cat he'll move on shortly, they have a large territory and don't stay in one place for long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

We live near louisville, ky. I asked fish and game if we had cougars. The agent looked at me for amoment, then said "officially, no. Unofficially, yeah, they're out there all right.". Supposedly some were released in TN and travel,ed down here. I know people that have seen them, and these people know the difference betweenabobcat and a cougar.


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## Customcanines (Jun 17, 2012)

By the way, peacocks also sound like someone calling help!


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

My land backs up to this reserve - http://www.tnwatchablewildlife.org/watchareadetails.cfm?uid=09072711435489517®ion=Bark_Camp_Barrens_WMA&statearea=Middle_Tennessee - also to AEDC, and i believe the mountains as well. I could easily see one being in the area. I will try to get a recording this weekend while i'm working outside.


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

I suspect he's telling you he doesn't want to leave home because that's his happy place. Beyond about 13' he can't tell the diff. between a coyote and a dog. A large cat, maybe by smell if he recognized the smell as a predator. Most predators are night hunters and will take dogs and cats, not a horse.


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## natisha (Jan 11, 2011)

Rideordie112 said:


> I live in Northern California in the valley, during the summer the mountain lions and cougars come down from the mountains to the upper park, and sometimes even down to my house and barn. Mountain lions sound like a screaming child, and cougars sound like someone calling for help.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 I thought Puma, Mountain lion & Cougar were names for the same animal?


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## SullysRider (Feb 11, 2012)

natisha said:


> I thought Puma, Mountain lion & Cougar were names for the same animal?


Yep same thing


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Most predators *typically* will not bother a horse. I would be concerned if the horse was elderly/feeble or small. Coyotes I wouldn't worry too much (though the horse probably won't like them) a mountain lion definitely _could_.

I won't say too much because my guess is my area is very different from yours and predators would act differently. I feel in general though the horse may be nervous but I doubt they would be bothered, but motion sensor lights and dogs (big loud ones, not snack sized ones!) are both good. We have a LOT of wildlife in our area but even though they are RIGHT around we haven't had a problem with our animals, I thank the dogs (and diligence on our part-sheep are ALWAYS in at dark!)


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Customcanines said:


> By the way, peacocks also sound like someone calling help!


When I had my peacocks I actually had people stop several times to check and see if I was ok. They really do sound like a woman yelling help.


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## dixieandboo (Jan 19, 2014)

I live in a small town in North Carolina and any Wildlife officer will tell you that there is ABSOLUTELY no cougars, mountain lions, panthers whatever you want to call them around here but me and a friend of mine deffinantly believe different. I was at his house around 9:30 the other night as we had just got back from a trail ride that was 2 hours away and we put the horses up they were fine and we went inside. All of a sudden the horses were going crazy they were kicking the stalls, rearing up, and when we got out to the barn we didnt see anything they did this again around 15 minutes later and this time we found a very large cougar inside of his goat pen which is right outside of the barn. We reported it and now the officers finally believe it because it had killed all of the newborn goats born the day before.


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## Fort fireman (Mar 5, 2011)

It's possible to have them out there. The problem is finding the proof. the track of a mountain lion is like any other cat track except size. unfortunately unless there is a reference in the pic you have, it is inpossible to tell exactly what size the track in the picture was. Could be a mountain lion, or a bobcat, or a big house cat. As for the screaming sound , it could be. However like was mentioned Bobcats sound like that as well. Also you get a cub black bear hollering for mom they sound like it to, however wrong time of year right now.

I've heard we have them in my area of NC as well. The western part of the state I could totally see them being there. however I haven't seen the proof that I need yet. As for around my house, I'm not sure. Of course a few years back i found a dead bobcat and I didn't think they were around in any big way so what do i know.:lol:

It's kind of funny this topic came up. Two nights ago my wife ( a police officer) got a call about a "cougar" sighting. She sent my the call report and the witness spends time out west hunting cougars and other big game as a guide with cabelas. So, who knows but officially No there are NO cougars in NC.


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## Rideordie112 (Dec 7, 2013)

natisha said:


> I thought Puma, Mountain lion & Cougar were names for the same animal?


I meant to say bobcat. Whoops.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dustbunny (Oct 22, 2012)

Well, whatever the critter out there is, your horse is aware of it! Horses have a strong sense of self-preservation. I give my horse the benefit of a doubt unless they prove themselves to be a slacker. 
We have bear, cougar and bobcat here. I prefer to stay out of the way of all three.


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## stevenson (Sep 12, 2011)

there could be something he smells or sees. I had a horse that was terrified of pigs. 
I had one scared of coyotes (but not dogs ) go figure.


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

The DNR still refuses to admit to cougars being in Michigan. They are here though. There have been multiple sightings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

I am giving my colt the benefit of the doubt here, he walks all around the roads all the time and while he gets excited sometimes he has never refused to go that direction. He actually likes it cause there is a farm w/ more horses there. I don't believe it is just him not wanting to leave his happy place at home.

I cannot seem to time it right so i'm outside w/ my camera turned on when i hear the sound. Peacocks could be a possibility for the sound, but would not explain the track and my horse's reaction. So.....


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## PandaJinxes (Mar 4, 2014)

cobra said:


> Hope this is the right section for this.....if not, feel free to move it.
> 
> Has anyone in middle Tennessee seen or heard of cougars or other big cats around??
> 
> ...


I'm out in northwest tn, outside of Paris. We don't have any wild cats at all out here, according to TWRA... But my uncle in big sandy has a bobcat living near them. :shock: 

I'm lucky enough to live near trigger happy ******** with a huge cattle ranch. We have coyote issues for a month or so every few years when logging gets bad and moves them in, but the incredibly friendly but quite dense neighbors usually wipe them out pretty fast. Actually our last pack came at the end of last year and had about 13-16 coyotes in it. Came in around November and were gone by December. I got one when we went out to hunt and I saw some chasing my boys, gave the neighbors a call, and my hunting was screwed for the week but you just really don't mess with my ponies.. 

Never messed with any cats, though, but you're probably in foothills and I wouldn't put it past something to wander down your way. Everything is desperate this year, so be careful... Even the coyotes are attacking horses and stuff they normally don't mess with out here, and hunting in huge packs. Keep your dogs and such locked up and an eye on your horses for sure. And turn the track in to TWRA, see what they think of it.


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

There are alot of cattle farms out here, one would think they would deal w/ the coyotes.....but perhaps there is a law against that here?? I'm not sure. At any rate, i know we have coyotes around. Ali hates dogs, so it may be nothing more than them.

If i had a pic of the print i would turn it in, but the neighbor never sent it to me. She tried once, but had no cell reception at the time - and i guess she forgot. It has been deleted from her phone already.  Her foot was in the pic next to the print as reference re: size. 

I had my camera out tonight and got this. Not the best recording, but here ya go.....


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Emailed that to my animal expert father lol.

It's definitely not a coyote, or at least not the type we have around here!! It definitely sounds like a cat, in fact if I heard that with no prior knowledge I'd think it was just a bad recording of a house cat (sounds like that with prior knowledge too!)


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

It sounds like a cat to me as well, and it really is louder than it sounds from my recording - my camera is just a cheap one, lol. My kids and i were out on the porch, and it was dusk/dark when i recorded it. I know it's not coyotes, i have heard them yipping/howling many times. I have been told it may be peacocks, but it doesn't sound like the recordings i have heard of them. I will try for a better recording, if possible. thanks for your input....


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

It sounds _somewhat_ peacockish but just for the "whaaa whaaa" of the noise.Not exampling myself well. I don't think it is a peacock though. Not a bird, cat. I would say it's a wild cat, though they don't usually call like that, they're pretty silent.

A LOT of places do not recognize having cougars when they do. They won't admit it. They also have large ranges.


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## MinervaELS (Mar 4, 2014)

The good news is, that is definitely not a mountain lion. Their scream is a very distinct sound. So are their growls and hisses, for that matter. Even if it were a cat (and it sounds like a bird), it would be a small one. Mountain lions are decent-sized animals and don't make small, tinny sounds like that. They do purr, but you obviously wouldn't hear that unless you were quite close.

It sounds like a peacock to me. Peacocks can make a wide range of sounds, including a truly bizarre one that sounds like a door buzzer. Their "voices" can also vary a bit from bird to bird, as I found when I chose a barn with several dozen peacocks in residence (not intentionally; they're squatters). I suppose it could also be a fox but I have less experience with their sounds. I've lived near mountain lions and peacocks but not foxes.

Since you are nervous and anticipating a mountain lion when you head that direction, I wouldn't be surprised if the horse is picking up your alarm. It is unlikely that a mountain lion would hang out in the same spot without a kill or a den, which would mean plenty of evidence of its presence. The horse doesn't know where the track was found, but you do.  

They're not bad, anyway. They live all over in California and with all of the urban sprawl we run into them (and bears, but that's beside the point). Every now and then a young or injured animal tries out going after joggers or bikers out of desperation but for the most part they keep to themselves. I used to see and hear them around my house before I moved. It was not a set territory for any one animal so they would pass through. I once scared off a young one loitering behind my house by flinging open the slider and hollering at him. You'd have thought I was after him by the way he took off. :lol:


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Sounds like a peacock. I used to have a pair. Even had people stop and see if I was ok because they thought it sounded like a woman yelling for help.


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## PaintHorseMares (Apr 19, 2008)

SueNH said:


> Sounds like a peacock. I used to have a pair. Even had people stop and see if I was ok because they thought it sounded like a woman yelling for help.


We have red fox around here and they are the same way. They have the loudest, shrillest cry I've ever heard for such a small animal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

I _do_ think it sounds like a cat, however it does make more sense for it to be a peacock.

Maybe I'm dumb but all I read was your neighbor took a picture of a print. I would find any more info, what sort of print?

I would put my detective cap on and go sleuthing.. Ask around see if anyone has peacocks. It may be the noise making him nervous since it doesn't sound like a bird, and of course you are on edge too.

Do peacocks typically call during the dark? What time was that video taken? Is the cry only at night? In that case it would NOT make more sense for it to be a peacock. and I would be back to saying cat.


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## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

I live in middle tn, and we do have bobcats. Ive had people claim there are mountain lions too, but ive never seen hide or hair of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

OutOfTheLoop said:


> I live in middle tn, and we do have bobcats. Ive had people claim there are mountain lions too, but *ive never seen hide or hair of them.
> *_Posted via Mobile Device_


Isn't that the point ?


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## OutOfTheLoop (Apr 1, 2012)

Yogiwick said:


> Isn't that the point ?


Exactly, Ice never seen one, and I never want to lol. I am content with watching them on tv.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saddlebag (Jan 17, 2011)

Sounds exactly like my female Siamese when she wanted to let every male around that she wanted to be courted.


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

In the spring my peacock would cry like that all day but a lot at dusk and dawn. He would cry when the moon came out from behind a cloud. He would cry when headlights hit the coop from the road. He would often fly to the roof of the house and call out. Would carry for miles.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

OutOfTheLoop said:


> Exactly, Ice never seen one, and I never want to lol. I am content with watching them on tv.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A lot of people think they aren't out there because they are VERY reclusive. They don't want to see you and chances are you don't want to see them. They are huge cats and can move completely silently, predominantly at night, it's no wonder people say they aren't around. My super conservationist animal expert father proved to the government in this area that they were around "No, no, definitely not, not for quite awhile, blah, blah....oh...." lol and actually the species that he found was one they thought was completely extinct in this area. They're definitely out there. I mentioned this thread to him and said "they say there aren't any mountain lions" and his response was "yeah, they always say that" haha. I definitely wouldn't rule it out from that alone, and in fact that would be my guess, however just not sure WHY it is calling or sticking around in the same area like that.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

SueNH said:


> In the spring my peacock would cry like that all day but a lot at dusk and dawn. He would cry when the moon came out from behind a cloud. He would cry when headlights hit the coop from the road. He would often fly to the roof of the house and call out. Would carry for miles.


Thanks Sue, maybe it is a peacock. I don't know if the OP specified she DIDN'T hear the noise during the day. It would definitely make more sense, and is probably easier to prove than the other ones. Talkative little ****** huh? Bet you didn't get much sleep haha.


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

I hear it most around dusk/dark but occasionally during the day. It could be peacocks, i know neighbors down the road have birds (guinea hens i believe) and may have peacock(s) too. As far as my colt being nervous it may be a combination of my nerves and his having seen/heard coyotes and dogs down that way. He does hate dogs. I just found it strange he usually likes going that way and now seems scared. As to the print, i don't have it to look at and i was only shown it once. It was big compared to her foot next to it. 

Whether the noise is peacocks or something else, i do believe we have big cat(s) around. Neighbors have seen them before, andi was told after i moved in that the land used to be used as a 'slaughter house' for cows and pigs and the cat(s) would come around looking for scraps/carcasses. 

My main concern, and reason for posting to begin with, is that i was trying to determine whether to push the issue or whether there was a valid fear there. I don't want to be exposing myself and/or the colt to be put in needless 'danger' but neither do i want to let him 'get away' with not doing as told.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Icky. I would assume the noise is a peacock then, however it does seem likely there are cats around, but I wouldn't worry about it. There are a ton of cats/coyotes/bears, etc around us. Not a problem. The horses are used to it and don't care. Sometimes they get a little nervous when we ride up where the coyotes den but nothing major. There was an attack on an older small sickly horse in the middle of the night in a very large pasture.... if they shut their old sick horse in during the night in an area of predators it wouldn't of happened. We have had zero issues with the horses, and none with the sheep though we do always shut them in at night (they're 75-100lbs). Horses are brought closer to the barn but left out. We've had animals in our yard and no fuss from the horses. They wont' bother the horses.

Sounds like he's just spooked then you get nervous because you don't know what's up so he gets worse. While I wouldn't jump on him because I do think he's genuinely nervous I would try to adopt the "there is nothing wrong so I will ignore it and so will you" attitude and get him focused on you. Even if there WAS a cat down there. It will run far far away the moment it hears/smells you, even if the scent is making him nervous he should trust you, and I don't think there's any reason you should be nervous.

So don't feel like you are in danger, maybe not go out riding at night, but I doubt you do anyways. A bobcat is even less of a threat. I always bring my dogs out with me at night. They make me feel better cause I'm a wimp lol. Do you have a big loud dog? Bring him out with you!


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## SueNH (Nov 7, 2011)

Very noisy but you get used to it.
Male peacocks also go on walk abouts. Been known to wander for miles. That's what happened to mine. He disappeared, I assumed a predator got him but about 3 months later spotted a craigslist ad looking for a peahen for the male he had caught. When I emailed him about the bird the whole ad disappeared. Pretty sure he's got my bird. Stinks because I liked the silly bird and it takes 5 yrs to raise one from chick to breeding age. Mr Peas just turned 5.


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## Yogiwick (Sep 30, 2013)

Sorry to hear that, that's really upsetting


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

I live in SW PA, and i saw a track of a mountain lion along the creek below my house. Though like you said if you say anything to the game commission, they'll laugh at you, but i know for a fact that they are around, we have bobcats, coyotes and these wolf/coyote hybrids that the game commission turned out to control the deer population, but they won't admit it.
Mountain lions/cougars are skittish cats, loud noises especially dogs will keep them away, coyotes will stay away if there is more than 1 dog, bobcats don't usually bother much of the farm animals. My major concern is black bear, have you considered that? If my horses smell a bear, they will not, i mean absolutely will not cross where it had been, they will freeze and shake. A close friend of mine had one of her horses attacked by a black bear, the horse lived, and the hunt is still on for the bear. Black bears are a big issue around where i'm at.
Hope this helps some!


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## cobra (Jan 30, 2013)

Hadn't thought of bears - but that would be a possibility with all the other animals around. Whatever it was he didn't like it. I'm not a tracker or anything so going scouting probably wouldn't help any.


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## Elizabeth Bowers (Jan 26, 2012)

It's all good Cobra, i know bears are common all over the country. Just be careful, especially around June/July that's their breeding season, and they're all really aggressive at that time of year. I accidentally rode up on one on my road, and i hurried up and turned the horse around and headed for home! Thank goodness it didn't come after us.


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