# Another critique for me and clippy



## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

and the other horses. the last one is my other horse diamond,.


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

In the 5th pic we were practicing saddleseat, so that is why his head is high and stuff like that lol.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

PLEASE please please do NOT TIE a horse with the reins and a bit! This is extremely dangerous! Especially to something movable like a cart!!
Eep!!

These pictures aren't the best at all to critique from. 
Once again I do not see him working through his back and hindquarter at all. His neck is still very very underdeveloped on the topside, and very developed on the underside, suggesting improper carriage of the head, even if you're doing "saddleseat"
It looks like he is mid-spook in the fourth picture... 
Your legs look okay, but your upper body appears quite wobbly. 

Just a few questions:
- Why are you using a curb bit?
- Why are you using 2 hands on a curb?


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

No im useing a tomb-thumb, im not sure if that is a curb or not. and i will be getting a D-ring snaffle soon. 

how do i work through his back hindquarter?


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

A tom-thumb IS a curb bit- any bit with shanks is a curb bit and you CANNOT use two hands with one.


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

alright i did not know, i will change to a snaffle ASAp


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## Gillian (Aug 2, 2008)

Yes, the bit you are using is a curb. Glad you're getting a snaffle, it'll be much easier on your horse once you do. I believe that bits were covered in your charging jumps thread. Please check it out and educate yourself. :] It's always good to know what you're putting in your horse's mouth.

I'll let someone else answer your question, but I have to say. I used to work at a saddleseat barn, and it's not saddleseat just because the horse's head is straight up in the air... I hate to be mean but I just don't see any kind of improvement from the last thread. He still looks the same. I'm really not trying to offend you. Just calling it as I see it.

And please, PLEASE never tie with the reins or to a movable object.
It's way to dangerous, even only for a moment. So much could go wrong.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

I have offered you advice about working through his hindquarter before, and you have ignored it. If you would seriously read through what I have to say and take it to heart, I will take the time out to write it out for you. If you are not, then please tell me. 

The bit you are using is not meant to be used with a direct rein - as you are using it right now (especially since it looks like you are taking up a lot of contact) it is VERY severe, and could be why he's carrying himself the way he is. 
A curb bit is one that uses leverage - a Tom Thumb is such a bit. We did discuss bits at length with you in your other threads.


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## Spyder (Jul 27, 2008)

morganshow11 said:


> No im useing a tomb-thumb, im not sure if that is a curb or not.


A western tom thumb is one of the worst curb bits and acts like a nut cracker in the mouth.

*ANY* bit with a shank and corresponding curb chain/leather is a CURB bit.


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

Gillian~ Clippy is no longer charging jumps(yay)!


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

i do NOT want this thread to go bad like all the other ones i have put up on the forum


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Just as a side note - those other horses pictures you posted look very thin, especially the roan.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

Morganshow, YOU alone can make this thread go where you want it to. If you ignore advice and make excuses this thread will end up like the others. 
If you show a willingness to learn and change, then it will end up good


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Alrighty...

You should never ride two handed in a curb bit, that is not what they are designed for. If your horse doesn't neck rein ride in a snaffle. 

Your horse is not working under himself. His back is hallowed out, not rounded. 

I'm not sure what is going on in the 4th picture? Opposite lead in the front and back possibly?! 

He is a pretty horse, but he needs lots of basic training from the look of these pictures!


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

JustDressageIt said:


> Just as a side note - those other horses pictures you posted look very thin, especially the roan.


They are all recent rescues.


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

In the 4th pic i had to do a english rollback, for the next jump.


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

The horses in second post appear thin and ribby. The riding pictures are awfully dark and difficult to see. The the one I can see really looks like you're still yanking back on his head. You can tell this from the position of your arms and his head. 

Just a question....why are you using bits that you don't understand? Sounds like you've not hired your adult instructor yet. I thought you were going to go back to ground work before doing more on his back. You're doing barrels and jumping in a Tom Thumb? Why? 

Why do you have rescues? It would seem to be more important to spend the money hiring a professional trainer for current horses.


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## morganshow11 (Dec 19, 2008)

yes im doing barrel in a tomb thumb, but i only use one hand wehn doing barrels.

the barn owner that i used to get advice from said to use the tomb-thumb.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

If that was a jumping rollback, I really do suggest you go back to basics. You always want to be centered on your horse. See how you are leaning? That is putting pressure on his inside shoulder so he can't free it up around the turn. 
I do not believe you have taken enough time to re-introduce the basics to Clippy to be doing what you are; this is my opinion based on the videos and threads you posted no more than a couple of months ago.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

I'd go re-read the thread you posted about charging jumps.

I believe we covered bits there. You need a snaffle. A direct contact bit with no shanks. Preferably double jointed.


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## Joshie (Aug 26, 2008)

morganshow11 said:


> yes im doing barrel in a tomb thumb, but i only use one hand wehn doing barrels.
> 
> the barn owner that i used to get advice from said to use the tomb-thumb.


So, why are you using two hands in these pictures?


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

Joshie - I was just thinking the same thing.

Are you running barrels on a horse that doesn't neck rein?


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

As much as it is annoying that our advice isn't sincerely listened to, I don't see the benefit of picking on her either. You can't expect something positive to come out of something that has become so negative.


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## LeahKathleen (Mar 5, 2009)

That's true Koomy.

I asked my question because I can't see the pictures - they are too dark on my computer screen.

But Koomy's right.

Though we would all truly like to offer advice, I think. We just would like it listened to without excuses.


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## EternalSun (Mar 29, 2009)

I wasn't going to comment on this thread because I'm not too sure I'll have any impact, but now I_ have_ to ask: are you jumping in a curb bit????!!!


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

I agree with koomy. Sometimes it's more difficult for some people to understand things, especially online. She didn't realize about the bit, and I understand that several topics seem to have touched on this, but she's said she'll switch to a snaffle ASAP.

I think when placed in this position, patience is the key. She seems willing to learn, but isn't going to accept advice when it's thrown at her in a way that makes her feel stupid. Yes, the horses she showed are under an ideal weight, but they're a far cry from "starving" and I honestly feel like that was just thrown in because people are annoyed with her.

*morganshow11 *- Unfortunately, a tom thumb is a really bad bit to use for jumping and can cause a lot of high headedness and gaping mouth because everytime you pull on one shank, the bit folds into the roof of his mouth, and the curb strap also pinches. Shanked bits are solely for neck rein trained horses, but I can understand why tom thumbs are confusing, since they're jointed and often called "tom thumb snaffles". I think your horse would be much happier in a plain eggbutt/D-ring/loose ring/etc. snaffle and you'd probably see better results from him.

I do think the flat work advice is warranted, your boy is very undermuscled and would find things like jumping and barrel racing a lot easier if you could work more on the flat, in a proper snaffle, and get him rounding his neck more. When a horse travels high headed, they develop the muscles underneath the neck, making them very ewe necked in appearance and unable to develop proper topline muscle.

He's a lovely boy, I hope things improve with a bit change!


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

MacabreMikolaj: Thank you for your very positive post. lol And by the way, can we come up with a nickname for you? Your handle is hard to type! LOL


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

While I do agree that some people might come across as blunt, there is a little bit of reason for impatience. 
If Morganshow is willing to read through a post if I make it regarding getting her horse round, I would be more than willing to post it. However, my posts have been very much ignored in the past. 
Regarding the other horses, they are thin, and posted in a critique thread, so I just let the OP know that they seem to be thin.


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## MacabreMikolaj (May 9, 2009)

Hahaha, for sure, everyone calls me Miko!

*JustDressageIt *- I hope you didn't take any offence, I know I've been around a very short time and I already have immense respect for you because you're obviously well educated and willing to pass that knowledge on to others. It was just the culmination of so many people basically drilling in the same point, in my experience, that tends to be a deal breaker for anyone at least partially willing to learn. So my post definately wasn't pointed towards you, just a general observation of the entire message being conveyed by many people.


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## koomy56 (Jan 19, 2008)

JDI: Oh, there is all the reason in the world for our impatience. lol Plase don't get me wrong, or find me rude in blowing off the effort you put in to help Clippy. If she wants to hear it, she will. The rest of us hear you and put it to good use, and I think that's all that matters.


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

MacabreMikolaj said:


> Hahaha, for sure, everyone calls me Miko!
> 
> *JustDressageIt *- I hope you didn't take any offence, I know I've been around a very short time and I already have immense respect for you because you're obviously well educated and willing to pass that knowledge on to others. It was just the culmination of so many people basically drilling in the same point, in my experience, that tends to be a deal breaker for anyone at least partially willing to learn. So my post definately wasn't pointed towards you, just a general observation of the entire message being conveyed by many people.


None taken at all!! :lol: Just trying to explain my stance


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## JustDressageIt (Oct 4, 2007)

koomy56 said:


> JDI: Oh, there is all the reason in the world for our impatience. lol Plase don't get me wrong, or find me rude in blowing off the effort you put in to help Clippy. If she wants to hear it, she will. The rest of us hear you and put it to good use, and I think that's all that matters.


Lol like I said, just trying to explain my stance on this particular horse/rider combination, my fuse has been greatly shortened. 
I really do respect a lot of your opinions and posts!


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## appylover31803 (Sep 18, 2007)

ok, I am closing this thread to prevent it from going into a full 
blown fight and to prevent a member from getting picked on for well known reasons.

If you have advice for her, you can contact her via PM, but please do not PM her saying anything mean or rude.


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