# Toes Up Heels Down & Toes In... Help please



## FHF (Jul 11, 2010)

As you know it takes a lot of practice to be able to have the perfect position. But it sounds like you are willing to do the work. Muscle memory just takes time and if you keep staying conscious of what your doing it will get better. Be patient with yourself and just keep correcting yourself. One thing that you can do out of the arena is stretch a lot. I have found that doing squats with my feet in the proper riding position really helps my riding. You can even do them with a little wedge under you toes to mimic keeping your heels down.


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

Time and patience, really. It's very very helpful if you can have someone on the ground watching and calling out for you to keep your toes in or your shoulders back or any other of the various position/posture mistakes so you can correct them immediately. Sometimes there is just so much to pay attention to when you are just getting started (or if you've gotten lazy and are trying to relearn) that it's easy to let things go and it' can be so helpful to have a watchful pair of eyes correcting you.

A lot of it is also building muscle so you can have your legs in the proper position with the toes in - that takes time but it does become easier.


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

Another school of thought says to forget pushing your heels down; it causes you to rise up off your deep seat, & forcing your toes in tightens your muscles in legs & grabs the horse with them. You want to have a more relaxed feel for your horse: toes & heels natural. It sounds as though your heels are rising because you're tensing & lifting your legs.


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## Pro (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks everyone.

I don't now if this will help much or not, but here are some pictures.

The first 2 pictures were from todays show, and the last one is from 2008.


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## Deerly (Apr 18, 2010)

I don't ride western so I could be wrong but aren't you allowed to keep your toes out? A friend of mine rides western (doesn't show or anything) and says it's perfectly acceptable to keep your toes out when your heels are down.

In a western saddle (which I've ridden in only once lately) it was IMPOSSIBLE to keep my toes in! They were too long and had way too much leather / stuff to be able to keep them in. It was explained to me that it's A-OK to keep your toes out - but I could be wrong!


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## Pro (Apr 23, 2009)

I ALWAYS get told to get my toes back in because it will take my heel off my horse. I don't know though...

I think it's better in the walk, and lope/canter, but during my jog and rising trot they come up. ESPECIALLY in the trot/jog.


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## spirithorse8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Toes STRAIGHT ahead, foot flat.


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## sarahver (Apr 9, 2010)

Looks to me like you might be trying to grip too much at the knee. Although this almost feels natural to do, it will prohibit you from being able to keep your lower leg in the correct position and force your toes outwards.

Try riding without stirrups for a while, let you legs hang down and keep your toes forwards without the stirrups there to fight against. Get the feel of riding with your leg just hanging there and without gripping at your knees. When you put your feet back in the stirrups, just let your leg lie flat along the girth and rest your toe in the stirrup. Try to be concious of not gripping with your leg, rather let it rest on the girth as more relaxed muscles along the length of your leg will allow you to get that toe pointing forwards, good luck! 

P.S. Cute horse


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## Lovehorsesandrunning (Nov 10, 2009)

That happens to me sometimes but if i really focus then its all better.. i would just think to make sure your postures right and if you still cant focus try putting more weight in your stirrups with your heels down... also how northern said grip more with your thighs not your calfs  youll get it


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## Northern (Mar 26, 2010)

A clarification, no offense intended: I don't say to grip with thighs, I agree with *Sarahver.* To achieve a deep, independent seat is what you want; the human anatomy must change over time to be able to have this. So it's not instant "there, my toes are in right spot!"


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## spirithorse8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Pro said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> I don't now if this will help much or not, but here are some pictures.
> 
> The first 2 pictures were from todays show, and the last one is from 2008.


 
Your legs are too long. You are not able to maintain a quiet seat with the plevic region having so much freedom. Your leg should be similiar to the one in the photograph.


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

I rode at a reining barn for awhile and to be honest, heels down in western are not as big a deal as in English. Just no toes down of course!! Also, no it is not "totally acceptable" to ride with your toes out like that. I had the same problem and I took the advice of a friend to sit pidgieon toed when not on a horse. After a few months of conciously sitting with my toes pointing inwards when not on a horse I saw a big improvement. It sounds silly, I know but it's worth a shot.


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## Pro (Apr 23, 2009)

^^Really? Because my reining instructor out of all of my 6 instructors (one for each discipline) is the one who picks on it the most.

I've never thought to practice while not sitting on a horse I'll try it!!


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## Pro (Apr 23, 2009)

spirithorse8 said:


> Your legs are too long. You are not able to maintain a quiet seat with the plevic region having so much freedom. Your leg should be similiar to the one in the photograph.


My legs get real stiff and cramp when I have them any shorter, I even have to drop them one hole for trail riding/long rides...

Could it be my overall position?


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## ridergirl23 (Sep 17, 2009)

Pro said:


> My legs get real stiff and cramp when I have them any shorter, I even have to drop them one hole for trail riding/long rides...
> 
> Could it be my overall position?


 i would guess then you neeed to relax your seat more (after shortening the stirrups) and just put your weight into them, pretend all your tightness is draining out through your heals...It sometimes helps me, but i ride english, so maybe its different, haha.


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## Zeke (Jun 27, 2010)

Honest Pro, my reining trainer cared more giving the correct cues then whether your heels were down. I'm not saying heels down is taboo or anything, just pointing out that an emphasis on heels being shoved down as far as possible (as my jumping trainer later in life demanded) isn't the norm. I do see lots of riders who ride both with heels very low but on the other hand many who ride pretty much strictly western have feet that are closer to level I guess you could say. 

Just because an excersise isn't on a horse doesn't mean it can't help 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spirithorse8 (Jun 30, 2010)

Pro said:


> My legs get real stiff and cramp when I have them any shorter, I even have to drop them one hole for trail riding/long rides...
> 
> Could it be my overall position?


As was stated....relax your seat. Stand in the stirrups, tighten you abs and butt muscles and sit down. Now just relax, let the calves support your knees and thighs. Allow your ankle to be supple.


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