# Genetic Testing, FRUSTRATING



## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

It's really sad and disgusting that the AQHA has to pull a power trip and refuse any testing from labs that are not UC Davis.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> It's really sad and disgusting that the AQHA has to pull a power trip and refuse any testing from labs that are not UC Davis.


I agree, and no matter who I talk to at AQHA they just don't seem to understand that frustration that breeders are dealing with over this. :evil:


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

Nope. And for those testing, they don't inform them that the AQHA owns those samples if you test through their form. You also have to wait for the AQHA to "approve" with UCDavis you finding out the test results. So much stupid.

If you go through UCDavis yourself and then give that copy to the AQHA, you get the results faster (from what I've been hearing) and you own the results, not the AQHA.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> Nope. And for those testing, they don't inform them that the AQHA owns those samples if you test through their form. You also have to wait for the AQHA to "approve" with UCDavis you finding out the test results. So much stupid.
> 
> If you go through UCDavis yourself and then give that copy to the AQHA, you get the results faster (from what I've been hearing) and you own the results, not the AQHA.


Right, and right. However, their rule (in 2014 all stallions breeding over 25 mares must be tested & in 2015 ALL stallions breeding must be tested) requires that you MUST order the test through AQHA not directly from UC Davis. Well at least is the latest story I have heard from AQHA. 

I currently own 1 breeding stallion, 2 junior stallions, and 15 mares and fillies. Obviously once I am forced into it I will test the stallions through UC Davis ( all three are currently tested and clean through Animal Genetics) But as far as the mares and fillies go (the majority of my horses) I will use Animal Genetics for all of my testing needs.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I also believe there are people fighting with AQHA over forcing to use UCDavis, but I'm not update on it as I don't own/breed AQHA horses.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

NdAppy said:


> I also believe there are people fighting with AQHA over forcing to use UCDavis, but I'm not update on it as I don't own/breed AQHA horses.


There is, and I am. But so far it's been about as productive as me telling my mares what colour, sex, and markings their foals will be/will have. :lol:

Another great example of how great Animal Genetics is; A few months ago I had a filly who I suspected had PSSM1 (She had no symptoms but I had found out that her dam had had it) I sent in a hair sample and as soon as I got an email that they had received the sample I called to see how long until I got results (It varies depending on how many test's they have it at that time) I did express concern that I thought this filly may have PSSM1. She told me the results would be to me in less than 4 business days. I got the results in less than 2 hours :shock:

NEVER once have I been disappointed in the services or the customer service with Animal Genetics. As far as UC Davis & AQHA....oh don't even get me started, the list is VERY long.


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## luv2ride (Jun 9, 2011)

I had to have my mare genetically tested in order to paper the foal she is having. I ordered the kit through AQHA and had to send the hairs. To UC Davis. I did this in January and have never heard back. Do they send you anything letting you know that the testing was successful? Did you have to have your mares tested or just your stallions?


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## paintedpastures (Jun 21, 2011)

luv2ride said:


> I had to have my mare genetically tested in order to paper the foal she is having. I ordered the kit through AQHA and had to send the hairs. To UC Davis. I did this in January and have never heard back. Do they send you anything letting you know that the testing was successful? Did you have to have your mares tested or just your stallions?


AQHA should send you in mail a DNA type sticker with a # on it for your mare's registration papers. You will not receive anything from UC Davis So have to wait for whenever AQHA gets around to sending it. I'd give them till end of month,if nothing i'd phone & check:wink:


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

luv2ride said:


> I had to have my mare genetically tested in order to paper the foal she is having. I ordered the kit through AQHA and had to send the hairs. To UC Davis. I did this in January and have never heard back. Do they send you anything letting you know that the testing was successful? Did you have to have your mares tested or just your stallions?


Eventually they will send you something in the mail, you can probably call and get results over the phone tho. 

As of right now we are not required to test our mares. However we choose to test, but we sure in the heck don't do it through AQHA to do it.


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## LuvMyPerlinoQH (Jun 21, 2011)

Why would it matter who owns the results, they are on file for the horse tested what more do you need you know the results. I have had all of my breeding stock tested thru AQHA and UC Davis I have never had one issue with either company. At least the AQHA is taking a stance to control these genetic diseases unlike the other 2 stock horse registries that are actually encouraging people to breed those hypp horses...


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## phantomhorse13 (Feb 18, 2011)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> At least the AQHA is taking a stance to control these genetic diseases unlike the other 2 stock horse registries that are actually encouraging people to breed those hypp horses...


If the AQHA (or any other stock registry) wanted to "control" HYPP, they could eradicate it in a single generation: simply do not breed ANY horse with the gene. 

I, however, am not going to hold my breath over that happening any time soon. It's all about the money, not what is in the best interest of the breed.


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## Chiilaa (Aug 12, 2010)

Why does it matter who owns the results? Because you pay the fee, why shouldn't you own it?


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

LuvMyPerlinoQH said:


> Why would it matter who owns the results, they are on file for the horse tested what more do you need you know the results. I have had all of my breeding stock tested thru AQHA and UC Davis I have never had one issue with either company. At least the AQHA is taking a stance to control these genetic diseases unlike the other 2 stock horse registries that are actually encouraging people to breed those hypp horses...


This is by FAR not my only issue with AQHA and UC Davis. I could handle then "owning" my horses DNA, however I will not tolerate the 2-6 month wait for testing. When I want to buy I horse, I do not want to wait that long for results. 

And regardless I own that horse so I own their DNA, AQHA should have no ownership to their DNA or their DNA results.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

FGRanch said:


> This is by FAR not my only issue with AQHA and UC Davis. I could handle then "owning" my horses DNA, however I will not tolerate the 2-6 month wait for testing. When I want to buy I horse, I do not want to wait that long for results.
> 
> And regardless I own that horse so I own their DNA, AQHA should have no ownership to their DNA or their DNA results.


Second part is the biggest reason.


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## Zexious (Aug 2, 2013)

I used UC Davis for HYPP testing, and I didn't have any issues.

I'm sure AQHA requires you go through them to ensure quality and authenticity of testing... But I could see how that would be frustrating. Plus, they could easily do a little investigating into other labs, to see if they are legit too.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I read the Handbook the other day when you first posted. I read the rule that talks about the testing that needs to be done for stallions and when. I looked specifically for where it says you MUST do the testing through UC Davis, and I could not find it anywhere. I'm going to send my results from Animal Genetics in and not say anything, and see what they say. I specifically did my testing with Animal Genetics because I have a SERIOUS objection to anyone but the HORSE OWNER owning lab results.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

DA please, please let us know what they say/don't say!


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## CLaPorte432 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just went through Animal Genetics for a red base test. Sent it in the mail on Saturday...results were emailed to me Friday. It didn't even take a full week...

2-6 months is insane. All I can think of is UC Davis is making money through AQHA. Afterall...isn't that what it comes down to in the end? Money...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> I read the Handbook the other day when you first posted. I read the rule that talks about the testing that needs to be done for stallions and when. I looked specifically for where it says you MUST do the testing through UC Davis, and I could not find it anywhere. I'm going to send my results from Animal Genetics in and not say anything, and see what they say. I specifically did my testing with Animal Genetics because I have a SERIOUS objection to anyone but the HORSE OWNER owning lab results.


Good luck. :? 

I tested both my 3 yr old stallion and 2 yr old stallion through AG simply because they are the better lab in my opinion. I sent the results to AQHA. The head of the DNA department called me personally and said they would not accept AG results and I had to retest through UC Davis. I will not test UC Davis until I have to. They are not breeding yet and until they do I will use AG.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

CLaPorte432 said:


> I just went through Animal Genetics for a red base test. Sent it in the mail on Saturday...results were emailed to me Friday. It didn't even take a full week...
> 
> 2-6 months is insane. All I can think of is UC Davis is making money through AQHA. Afterall...isn't that what it comes down to in the end? Money...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


AQHA has a contract with UC Davis. When I spoke with the DNA department at AQHA they said they will not be cancelling their contract with UC Davis anytime in the foreseeable future. 


The ONLY thing I agree with UC Davis/AQHA is that they cross check the DNA to ensure that the hair samples are actually from the the horse the owner is saying it's from. This is apparently why it takes a minimum of a month to get results :?


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

FGRanch said:


> Good luck. :?
> 
> I tested both my 3 yr old stallion and 2 yr old stallion through AG simply because they are the better lab in my opinion. I sent the results to AQHA. The head of the DNA department called me personally and said they would not accept AG results and I had to retest through UC Davis. I will not test UC Davis until I have to. They are not breeding yet and until they do I will use AG.


Well, since I breed dilutes, I don't have to reg AQHA. I will send in the test and see what they say. If they say they won't accept it, I will tell them I'll happily comply if they'll show me WHERE it says in the handbook that UC Davis is the mandatory lab. I have yet to find ANYTHING that says they are. If they cannot, and still won't accept my results, then I guess my foals will reg Palomino, Paint and Pinto, or Buckskin Registry and NOT AQHA.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Dreamcatcher Arabians said:


> Well, since I breed dilutes, I don't have to reg AQHA. I will send in the test and see what they say. If they say they won't accept it, I will tell them I'll happily comply if they'll show me WHERE it says in the handbook that UC Davis is the mandatory lab. I have yet to find ANYTHING that says they are. If they cannot, and still won't accept my results, then I guess my foals will reg Palomino, Paint and Pinto, or Buckskin Registry and NOT AQHA.


If it's not in the official rules I would argue it as well. I haven't read the official rule change yet.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

Copied straight from the handbook:

REG108. GENETIC TESTING

REG108.1 If there is justifiable cause to question parentage of a foal, the Executive Committee may require the foal, sire and dam to be genetically tested, the expenses of which shall be allocated as the Executive Committee determines. The results of this test, together with other available information, may be taken into consideration by the Executive Committee in its determination of the foal’s parentage as recognized by AQHA. Such genetic testing shall be done by an organization approved by AQHA.
REG108.2 The owner or lessee of a stallion exposed to one or more mares, shall, at his own expense, file with AQHA a written report of the stallion’s genetic type, obtained from a laboratory approved by AQHA, and in accordance with procedures adopted by AQHA. Once such type is filed with AQHA, it is not necessary to repeat such filing annually, except as requested by AQHA. This type must be on file with AQHA prior to the registration of any foal sired by such stallion from mares covered in REG108.3 below.
REG108.3 A genetic type must be on file with AQHA for any mare foaled on or after January 1, 1989, prior to the registration of any foal produced by them.
REG108.4 All stallions having 25 or more mares on their 2014 breeding report are required to have a genetic disease panel test on file with AQHA prior to the registration of their foals resulting from breeding’s occuring after January 1, 2014.
REG108.5 All stallions are required to have a genetic disease panel test on file with AQHA prior to the registration of their foals resulting from breeding’s occuring after January 1, 2015.

And here's a link to the online version: 
AQHA Handbook

That way you can look at it yourself and see if you can find it anywhere. Note that in 108.1 & 108.2, it says an approved lab. It does not specify that in 108.4 or 108.5. It just says the tests must be on file, not that the lab must be approved nor does it specify UC Davis.


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## FGRanch (Feb 9, 2008)

Yep, I see nothing about the disease panel being done at any specific lab or even an "AQHA approved lab." Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I will send in my AG results and if they argue that I will send them looking through their own rules.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

I'll send in mine this week too, so they have it coming from more than one source at a time.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I just have to clarify, it;s not taking 2-6 months for the testing to be done. It's taking 2-6 months for the results to be sent to the horse's owner from the AQHA. You can't even call UCDavis and ask for the results as they will outright tell you that the AQHA owns them and you must wait on the AQHA.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> I just have to clarify, it;s not taking 2-6 months for the testing to be done. It's taking 2-6 months for the results to be sent to the horse's owner from the AQHA. You can't even call UCDavis and ask for the results as they will outright tell you that the AQHA owns them and you must wait on the AQHA.


See...that's where I have the problem with the whole thing. AQHA owns the results......my HOOF! It's my horse, I pull the tail hairs and I pay for the test, which by the way is only $10 less than Animal Genetics, and AQHA owns the results? If they want to own the results, they can buy the horse. That just really irks me. :evil: It's not the time, though that's just ridiculous when AG got my results back for EVERYTHING that I sent them in less than a week. I tested several horses for various color things, 2 disease panels, gelding for HYPP and something else. I forget but my bill was almost $500 so it was a LOT of testing. And, I'm sure UCD does this too, Animal Genetics keeps the samples on file for several years and went back to my original samples for any horse they tested for me for other reasons. So why do I have to send in a new sample for the panel since UCD did the heredity testing when Skip was a lad getting registered? With Animal Genetics, I just go to their site, fill out what I want done and give them billing info, or I can email or call them, whatever I like and if they've tested the horse for something before, they just do the new test. 

If AQHA wants to check the parentage again to make sure we're not fudging the tail hair samples from a horse we know is clear of the 5 diseases, why not just use the original sample that was done to verify parentage? This whole thing just doesn't make sense. 

Anyway, NdAppy none of that was directed specifically at you, you're post just triggered a bunch of thoughts in my head.


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## NdAppy (Apr 8, 2009)

I didn't think it was directed at me. Lol This whole thread has kind of turned into a vent about this situation. In all honesty it makes me glad that I don't breed horses, more so AQHA horses.


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## Dreamcatcher Arabians (Nov 14, 2010)

NdAppy said:


> I didn't think it was directed at me. Lol This whole thread has kind of turned into a vent about this situation. In all honesty it makes me glad that I don't breed horses, more so AQHA horses.


Every registry has their "issues", just some irk me more than others. LOL! Paints & Pintos irk me because they DON'T require any testing, Arabs irk me because they don't require testing and even if you do the testing, and evern though many members would like it, won't put the results on the registrations papers. Buckskins only issue permanent papers to horses after they've produced so many buckskin foals, or unless their gelded or spayed. HUH? And now that we can do various gene tests and know what 'causes' buckskins and palominos, that they're not reproducible colors on their own, why haven't they rescinded that part of their rules? So, it's not just AQHA. Just situations that make you go, "HUH?" :think::think::?:

And I question EVERYTHING. Drove my mother batty and now she's getting her revenge, I drive myself batty with all my questions, some times. LOL!


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