# when can a stud colt start breeding?



## Larissa

He is fully able to now, but it is not a good idea. If turned out with other horses, geldings or other stud colts. No fillies or mares.Better to get him gelded, unless he is absolutely amazing in pedigree, confo, and proves himself in performance later on.


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## Gail Holmgren

he is bred to the hilt!! is it better to keep him by himself or is it ok to put him in with the other horses? ( 3 mares and 2 geldings).


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## PSNapier

To put it in no uncertain terms: if you don't know the answer to these questions already you have no business owning a stallion.


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## Larissa

Gail Holmgren said:


> he is bred to the hilt!! is it better to keep him by himself or is it ok to put him in with the other horses? ( 3 mares and 2 geldings).


Are you set up for a stud? Financially/time/ and experience? (Keep in mind, if he gets out, hurts anyone, there property, breeds mares, hurts other horses etc you are responsible for all costs.) Turn him out with two geldings, NO mares. He DOES NOT need to be breeding currently. He has not proven himself. If you really are set on breeding him, at least wait until he is older and has a show record, and has proven himself. There are so many horses out there already that are from breeding just because even with papers, and nobody wants them. Do you have have plans for collecting him when he is older? Or are you going to risk live covering? What breed is he? Pictures?


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## Larissa

I have to agree with PSNapier.. Based upon you not knowing these things it shows you don't have the experience. That isn't a bad thing. But you don't want to get yourself or others hurt. And add to the slaughter horse market. In no way am I trying to diss you. But these are very serious things.


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## blueriver

Bred to the hilt ... in who's opinion?


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## Sharpie

He could breed a mare now. Do not put him out with any mares or fillies you don't want bred by him. Make sure there are double fences between him and any mares you don't want bred by him. Horses can and do breed through fences.

Many colts don't show much in the way of reproductive behavior until nearing two, but that doesn't mean your guy won't. Reproductive behavior includes not only breeding mares, but also driving off the competition. Stallions can seriously injure geldings by fighting or driving them through fences to protect "their" mares. Some studs can be turned out safely with other studs and/or gelding when there are no ladies around to fight over.


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## DraftyAiresMum

blueriver said:


> Bred to the hilt ... in who's opinion?


To add to this, just because he's bred well doesn't mean he has what it takes to be a stud. He needs to not just look good on paper, but to have the conformation, temperament, and the ability (proof that he can do what he's bred and marketed to do...other than stand around, look pretty and make babies) to back up that paper. 

My best friend has a mare who is very well-bred and is the granddaughter of a very big local working/ranch QH stud (Scottish Bart). She is a train wreck, conformationally speaking, and she is most definitely NOT breeding material, even with her pedigree and her amazing temperament. 

Papers don't mean squat if the horse doesn't have the goods to back it up (conformation, temperament and ability).


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## blueriver

DraftyAiresMum said:


> To add to this, just because he's bred well doesn't mean he has what it takes to be a stud. He needs to not just look good on paper, but to have the conformation, temperament, and the ability (proof that he can do what he's bred and marketed to do...other than stand around, look pretty and make babies) to back up that paper.
> 
> My best friend has a mare who is very well-bred and is the granddaughter of a very big local working/ranch QH stud (Scottish Bart). She is a train wreck, conformationally speaking, and she is most definitely NOT breeding material, even with her pedigree and her amazing temperament.
> 
> Papers don't mean squat if the horse doesn't have the goods to back it up (conformation, temperament and ability).


I'll add ... I agree ... may be it'll take a few years to prove himself before anyone can determine if his "bred to the hilt" breeding has carried on.


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## natisha

About 2 months before you think he can.


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## SunnyDraco

Gail Holmgren said:


> we have a stud yearling colt... when can he start breeding mares? is it okay to have him out with other horses?


Ah welcome to the forum and the most controversial subject on the forum :lol:

A yearling colt can start breeding now, can already be fertile or it may still take him a while before he is fertile but they tend to be fertile when you don't want them to be. Many young colts are assumed to be uninterested in breeding as no one saw them mounting mares but no one can watch them 24/7 and the mounting can be less than a minute and in the middle of the night (most frequent time of a young colt's breeding experimentations when pastured with mares). 

He can also still be fertile right after being gelded and so will need alone time after being gelded so not only does he have a chance to heal but will also have the chance for sperm in his reproductive system (were already outside the testicles at the time of gelding) to die off. 

A yearling colt put in with mares is also going to be taught manners by those mares and not always in a gentle way. Expect frequent vet visits and bills for getting him stitched up during this harsh learning process, more dangerous injuries can happen as well, sometimes lethal to the colt. An established herd of mares and geldings also adds the danger of the geldings who may attack the young colt. If the colt were older he may be dangerous around the unfamiliar geldings in an attempt to keep the mares to himself. 

Intact colts tend to be kept separate as they are less likely to be injured or worse. The downside is that they don't get the herd socialization or a fulfillment of their desire to mount mares. Intact, sexually mature colts are hard wired for breeding and their mentally maturity is always way behind their sexual maturity and so you have a ton of training, consistency and constant awareness of every behavior you allow. 

As a yearling, you will not know how he will mature for another 2-5 years depending on how long it takes him to grow and fill out/muscle up. Having been bred for a particular purpose (my interpretation of being "bred to the hilt") is a good thing, all horses should be bred for a particular purpose but very few are actually good enough to breed. They should have something special about them, proven themselves as something others would pay good money to have. A yearling is still a baby mentally with a matching lack of physical maturity and cannot be proven in anything as they need to grow up still. 

You also need to be critical of your mares if you intend to keep this colt intact, look at what they have to offer in breeding, conformation, temperament and complimentary to the colt (which is unknown until he is actually fully grown). If any mare is subpar or just an average nice horse, skip any thoughts of ever breeding them as the horse market is flooded with average and subpar. 

No matter what papers look like, you cannot ride papers. The most responsible breeders will geld any colt no matter what his papers look like. Some will geld if the colt steps one toe out of line (i.e. Nipping, overly mouthy or any mistake in manners), if there is a decline in the horse market or if he just isn't performing as well as he was bred to do. Common and true phrase on the forum, "Every good stallion is an even better gelding."

Also, if you keep an intact and possibly fertile colt on your property, you are legally and financially responsible for anything he does. Your fences need to be top notch and no shared fence lines with neighboring horse pastures (if he breeds your neighbor's mare through the fence, you gave away a free breeding and get to pay all the bills associated with their pregnant mare), any escapade off your property made by an intact colt will also be your legal and financial responsibility. That includes property damage, fences are commonly destroyed by stallions. The more you study about the nitty gritty details concerning stallion ownership, the less desirable owning one is. 

As a side note, geldings average a much happier lifestyle when compared to the average stallion. Sorry for the long reply/novel


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## stevenson

I agree with psnapier. If you do not know when a horse can be bred by age, you should not be breeding. Those papers without a show record mean nothing. there are a lot of really nice geldings bred to the hilt with show records that are amazing, that still make better geldings than stallions. You need to taek some courses on animal husbandry , find a trainer that is reputable.


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## jaydee

If you really want to breed from him then wait until he's broke and doing something to prove himself worthy of producing progeny
Bloodlines are useless without proof of top class performance to back them up


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## Gail Holmgren

you don't even know my sitaution so don't judge me!!


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## DraftyAiresMum

No, we only know what you tell us...and based on what you've told us, you don't sound ready, experienced or equipped to own a stud, regardless of his age.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gail Holmgren

i just asked a simple question and your all juding me!! you don't even know my situation!!!

SO WITH THAT I'M LEAVING THE HORSE FORUM!!! THANKS FOR JUDGING AND BEING RUDE


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## TimberRidgeRanch

Okay now this is just my opinion but Papers don't mean poop if their training and performance doesn't back it. Like so many stated there are just too many unwanted horses now. A lot of big time breeders have slowed down and even stopped breeding for now. Its a smart move and I don't know how anyone else feels but a gelding today will sell higher then a colt. Better to geld then to take on a stallion and have no experience owning one or promoting one. Sad fact but true. Good Luck JMHO
TRR


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## amberly

If you are going to breed him once, I would geld him asap.
Stallions around here we keep away from all horses, and when passing by it is done quickly with no stopping.
If you can teach the horse to be resepctful it's fine - but not knowing your experience with horses i would geld him.


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## tinyliny

I don't blame the OP for being upset. she asked a very simple question. and got nothing but assumptions and judgements. honestly~! 

is that what you'd call "helpful and friendly"?


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## Hackamore

A potential breeding stud should be put in with older geldings as soon as he is weaned. This is done so the older horses can teach him to be a horse and so he can learn to get along with other horses. 

Then as soon as he is off age he needs to be started under saddle and prove that he can be saddle horse and has the temperament and talent to be considered for breeding. 

If he does not have the trainability, movement, confirmation and good temperament, then he needs to become a gelding. Any horse considered to be a breeding stallion needs to prove they are worthy of passing genetics. 

Very few people I meet actually need or have the knowledge to own a stallion.


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## COWCHICK77

I know the standard internet forum answer is "is he proven, do you have the facilities..etc..etc".

Just for information purposes.

The OP is from Nevada around here it is common for stallions to run with geldings and be treated as a horse. Not as a dangerous, fire breathing dragon kept in isolation. When they are ready to breed they are turned loose with a band of broodmares and usually kept with them all year round.
You can look at the papers of many producing ranch stallions(if they have papers) and you wouldn't think they are much due to no show winnings and more than likely you have never heard of the names on the papers. That doesn't mean they are incapable of producing a quality ranch horse. You go to any of the big ranch horse sales here in Nevada or Oregon and the grade horses can bring just as much as a papered horse. People want a good horse regardless of the papers.


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## mslady254

Just to add a thought to Tinyliny's post. My take on the OP's question was 'when is a stud colt physically able to mount/breed/impregnate? (as in when do I need to separate him from mares)',,,,,, but most responders seemed to assume she was asking 'can I start using him to breed yet?'.

jmho 
Fay

Fay


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## ButtInTheDirt

Wow to people's responses. Seriously. The OP really wasn't trying to have a moral debate I'm sure. Or at least to not be questioned entirely. I know plenty of good breeders who don't communicate themselves well online.

If I were in the same situation I'd take the stud colt and pasture him with the two geldings. This way he gets interaction without impregnating any mares before he is ready to start his breeding career. To me it doesn't look good as a breeder to have a stud colt that you plan to breed already have foals on the ground as a two year old. That is a little wild. And a little irresponsible.

So yes, he can and may breed at his age. Completely possible.


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## SunnyDraco

COWCHICK77 said:


> I know the standard internet forum answer is "is he proven, do you have the facilities..etc..etc".
> 
> Just for information purposes.
> 
> The OP is from Nevada around here it is common for stallions to run with geldings and be treated as a horse. Not as a dangerous, fire breathing dragon kept in isolation. When they are ready to breed they are turned loose with a band of broodmares and usually kept with them all year round.
> You can look at the papers of many producing ranch stallions(if they have papers) and you wouldn't think they are much due to no show winnings and more than likely you have never heard of the names on the papers. That doesn't mean they are incapable of producing a quality ranch horse. You go to any of the big ranch horse sales here in Nevada or Oregon and the grade horses can bring just as much as a papered horse. People want a good horse regardless of the papers.


Proven doesn't equal big show wins. It should mean that the stallion has proven themselves good at what they were bred to do. If a ranch is bringing up a young stud prospect and during training he just isn't as good as they want, desire or has some other poor quality about him (prone to lameness, horrendous gaits, poor work ethic, etc), he will be gelded before covering a mare as that is not what they want in future foals. Colts can be bred from the very best for a particular discipline/job and mature into a train wreck or subpar which is why it is best to wait until a colt has fully grown and has proven himself at something other than a pretty pasture ornament as nothing is ever a guarantee when breeding. 

The OP was asking about introducing a yearling stud colt to a mixed herd of geldings and mares. If he had been with these geldings starting as a weanling, there probably wouldn't be an issue as long as they weren't mares with them. Geldings can be very protective of mares when a colt is introduced to their established herd, the mares may also be even less thrilled about a young colt hanging around and experimenting with mounting.


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## jaydee

Jumping to conclusions based on 'reading between the lines' is never going to give good results. In fact the only result it usually gives it in a thread that could be informative to lots of people being closed
As for gelding the colt - if he is really well bred with a history of top performers in his bloodlines (and that can be performers in competition or as really good working horses) and has good conformation and temperament then as long as he can be managed correctly until he's old enough to prove himself as a riding horse/worthy of being a stud then its really up to the owner to make that decision
There might be thousands of rubbish horses on the market and some stallions that shouldn't be but there are also some geldings that have got owners kicking themselves that they didn't keep them entire - like Valegro for instance


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## Foxhunter

I agree with Fay, asking questions is the way to learn and sometimes those questions are a bit vague or can be read in a different way to the way the poster meant.

Jumping to conclusions and down people's throats is not going to teach anything.


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## COWCHICK77

SunnyDraco said:


> Proven doesn't equal big show wins. It should mean that the stallion has proven themselves good at what they were bred to do. If a ranch is bringing up a young stud prospect and during training he just isn't as good as they want, desire or has some other poor quality about him (prone to lameness, horrendous gaits, poor work ethic, etc), he will be gelded before covering a mare as that is not what they want in future foals. Colts can be bred from the very best for a particular discipline/job and mature into a train wreck or subpar which is why it is best to wait until a colt has fully grown and has proven himself at something other than a pretty pasture ornament as nothing is ever a guarantee when breeding.
> 
> The OP was asking about introducing a yearling stud colt to a mixed herd of geldings and mares. If he had been with these geldings starting as a weanling, there probably wouldn't be an issue as long as they weren't mares with them. Geldings can be very protective of mares when a colt is introduced to their established herd, the mares may also be even less thrilled about a young colt hanging around and experimenting with mounting.


 
Sunny, I am well aware of that. 
I think you know that when people get on the internet talking about breeding stock the first thing that they ask is about bloodlines and winnings. I was explaining for informational purposes that not all studs need to have a show record to be great.


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## SunnyDraco

Just as a thought concerning all posts directed to the OP which can be read as judgemental, harsh, condescending, assuming, helpful, sharing personal experience or in any other way a reader wishes to perceive the posts. The author's tone is lost as soon as they hit the "reply" button. The reader then creates the tone of what they read, all meaning and well wishes can be lost as words have no tone in the written form. We can re-read all the posts in this thread and see something completely different if we change the tone we are reading it with. I am not sure why the OP used so many exclamation points with each response (even when they said the colt was bred to the hilt) but I am guessing the OP was a bit emotional/feeling the need to defend their colt because they read even the first replies with a tone inserted by their own creation that made every post an attack. 

Try laughing when you read the post about how the colt will be fertile about three months before you want him to be. Then read it while cringing about unwanted breeding. Next read it like you are scolding a child/teenager about a really bad idea so they won't try it. Tone is put there by the reader and is easily misinterpreted, commonly misread when the subject is a sensitive topic for you. 

I personally was trying to share experinces as my mom has a stallion, I talked extensively to the lady who owned him from a foal until he was 9 years old. She had purchased him as a newborn and brought him home from the breeder (who lived a few miles from her) as a weanling. He was then pastured with her herd of mares (no geldings) until the time he had foals hitting the ground (first one was a winter/pre-spring baby, owner fortunately had a heated barn). She had the vet out many times to stitch up the colt/young stallion as he was learning herd manners and breeding manners, he was turned into a respectful breeding stallion by those mares but it was a rough road with lots of vet visits. When my mom bought him at age 9, the previous owner was focusing on her new up and coming colt. After her experience with raising the first with a herd of mares, she kept the new stallion prospect seperate and wanted to only do AI as she didn't want him beat up by mares or worry about his manners towards mares. My mom's stallion may end up being a fantastic and very happy gelding one day even though he is producing excellent quality foals who have very happy owners. He has the manners of a gelding and is a pleasure to work with and ride, he tries his best for you while siring incredible babies with great minds and conformation but just think of how awesome he could be as a gelding who could then romp around in the pasture with the herd without worrying about winter babies, breeding related injuries, fence jumping, etc.


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## churumbeque

PSNapier said:


> To put it in no uncertain terms: if you don't know the answer to these questions already you have no business owning a stallion.


Exactly. You could put him with geldings but not mares to be safe. Some how I I wonder if you will take the advise. There is always some reason people do not separate them. 
I dont have room, I separate when mares are in season etc.


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## Mercy98

Let me just say I'm sorry for all the flack you got from other responses...
I know for a fact, that this forum is meant to be helpful! I ditto ButtintheDirt's response. Putting him in with a gelding might also help him with learning how to carry himself around other horses! I hope this helps, and if you ever want more help, you are more than welcome to PM me


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## Textan49

tinyliny said:


> I don't blame the OP for being upset. she asked a very simple question. and got nothing but assumptions and judgements. honestly~!
> 
> is that what you'd call "helpful and friendly"?


I have to agree with this. The question was answered and then things got a bit off track. I do have to admit that my thoughts were going in the same direction. Everything about keeping the colt intact should have been figured out long before now and to not know the answer when it could be too late does not make a good impression


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## tinyliny

churumbeque said:


> Exactly. You could put him with geldings but not mares to be safe. Some how I I wonder if you will take the advise. There is always some reason people do not separate them.
> I dont have room, I separate when mares are in season etc.


so, you keep a stud with the mares until they come into season? or did I misread that.? how do you know soon enough to prevent him breeding them when they are just on the beginning days, when one might not really notice? are they fertile at that time?


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## DraftyAiresMum

tinyliny said:


> so, you keep a stud with the mares until they come into season? or did I misread that.? how do you know soon enough to prevent him breeding them when they are just on the beginning days, when one might not really notice? are they fertile at that time?


I think she was referring to the excuses people give for not separating their stud from their mares...


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## SunnyDraco

DraftyAiresMum said:


> I think she was referring to the excuses people give for not separating their stud from their mares...


Agreed, there has been more than one foaling thread I have stalked that was the result of the previous owner of the mare pasturing colts with the mares because it was winter (assuming all mares don't cycle during winter months when it is closer to 80% of mares who don't cycle through the winter) or the colts didn't know anything about breeding yet because they were so young (at 2-3 years old... Oh they know, you just missed witnessing it) or my favorite was the foaling thread because the previous owner had the mares with two colts but only after a ride because it was easier to feed them all in one place but for a short time but surely nothing happened when the owner wasn't watching them eat :lol:


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## Textan49

SunnyDraco said:


> Agreed, there has been more than one foaling thread I have stalked that was the result of the previous owner of the mare pasturing colts with the mares because it was winter (assuming all mares don't cycle during winter months when it is closer to 80% of mares who don't cycle through the winter) or the colts didn't know anything about breeding yet because they were so young (at 2-3 years old... Oh they know, you just missed witnessing it) or my favorite was the foaling thread because the previous owner had the mares with two colts but only after a ride because it was easier to feed them all in one place but for a short time but surely nothing happened when the owner wasn't watching them eat :lol:


 I think the OP got her answer about yearlings becoming daddies and I am sorry that they became upset, but so many of us have seen these "accidental" breedings when the owners should have known better that it is easy to assume. I remember the two year old stud colt that was pastured with his dam and was told that he wouldn't breed her because he knows it's his mom !


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## churumbeque

tinyliny said:


> so, you keep a stud with the mares until they come into season? or did I misread that.? how do you know soon enough to prevent him breeding them when they are just on the beginning days, when one might not really notice? are they fertile at that time?


I was being sarcastic as there was another thread about an unwanted pregnancy and the owner said they separated when in season. :lol:


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## churumbeque

SunnyDraco said:


> Agreed, there has been more than one foaling thread I have stalked that was the result of the previous owner of the mare pasturing colts with the mares because it was winter (assuming all mares don't cycle during winter months when it is closer to 80% of mares who don't cycle through the winter) or the colts didn't know anything about breeding yet because they were so young (at 2-3 years old... Oh they know, you just missed witnessing it) or my favorite was the foaling thread because the previous owner had the mares with two colts but only after a ride because it was easier to feed them all in one place but for a short time but surely nothing happened when the owner wasn't watching them eat :lol:


I know someone that kept the stallion with the mare for at least 3 years and she finally took on a Dec. breeding.


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## churumbeque

Textan49 said:


> I think the OP got her answer about yearlings becoming daddies and I am sorry that they became upset, but so many of us have seen these "accidental" breedings when the owners should have known better that it is easy to assume. I remember the two year old stud colt that was pastured with his dam and was told that he wouldn't breed her because he knows it's his mom !


somthey thought the horse would have morals and not believe in incest? Lol


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## beau159

I don't think anyone was rude or unwelcoming to the OP. No, some things weren't sugarcoated, but honesty is honesty. 

After all, she has had an entire year to find out when her stallion will be able to breed and she only decided to ask _now_? Not to mention, she asks the internet instead of asking her vet? (Who hopefully has already been involved with the delivery of the stallion and with the vaccinations it needs, etc)

If the OP wants to be responsible about having a stallion, she would have researched the topic _long before she even got one._ And based on her screaming responses (without offering any other information that some polite users asked, in order to better understand the situation), well, you can draw your own conclusions.


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## jaydee

Thread closed


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